IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-08-14

V13well.. if you're fast enough, you can hit someone two times per second with a baseball bat.00:00
* V13 runs00:00
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: 10-100KHz IIRC.00:00
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jaemV13: I think you just struck out with that pun00:00
MOUDHey all00:00
DocScrutinizernah, thought I'd have the datasheet open. But anyway, iirc the sampling goes up to 96k/s00:00
TiagoTiagoah, that isn't in the FM RF range :/00:00
TiagoTiagonah, i laughed00:00
jaemMOUD: Hiya00:01
V13"Most bats use frequencies in the range 20-80 kHz"00:01
MOUDsup jaem?00:01
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jaemMOUD: Just finished lunch.  Rather full.00:01
jaemBack to code00:01
TiagoTiagotoo low for raw encoding int he range of the FM receiver :(00:01
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MOUDgood for you00:01
NitialV13: here is one demo for n900. released in a party last weekend
MOUDIs it possible to use a PS3 or a Wiimote to control the media player of the n900?00:02
TiagoTiagoyes, i'm nto sure if someone has made it easy already though00:03
V13Nitial: thanks!00:03
MOUDwhich one works better?00:03
DocScrutinizerV13: (IR) here you go:
V13DocScrutinizer: this is a video of IR detection ?00:04
V13I know.. it is very simple to test.. just use a remote :)00:05
V13I've tested it myself.00:05
DocScrutinizerIRreco :-)00:05
V13!@$$$$$$ debian.. I don't have flash :(00:06
DocScrutinizerdunno, think that's mp400:07
V13"Videos are unable to play. Either you have an older version of Adobe's Flash player, or javascript is turned off. Update to the latest Flash player"00:07
TiagoTiagoWhy IR universal remote progs always make you searcha nd download stuff yourself while those cheap universal remotes you can buy on the corner got enough models and manufactures that you can just set it to test mode, keep hitting power button and most of the times, the first time it turns on or off your device it's the right one?00:07
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nox-moin slonopotamus00:10
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: 4200:10
slonopotamusNoma: ftw! it's 1am here00:10
nox-is the find function in the n900 browser partly broken for you guys too?00:10
TiagoTiagowhich part is broken?00:11
jaemnox-: Not that I recall.  What issue are you having?00:11
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DocScrutinizerV13: hmm, you could boot to maemo00:12
slonopotamus(and i'm drunk a bit) :P00:12
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nox-says `search finished' and does otherwise nothing altho the searched text does appear further down on the page...00:12
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DocScrutinizermhm, seem to remember such thing00:13
slonopotamus(and i'm drunk a bit) :P00:13
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DocScrutinizerdunno if on N900 though00:13
TiagoTiagodoes it happen on any page or jsut specific ones?00:13
jaemnox-: Can you give us the URL and query string?00:13
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nox-its not public tho i guess i could put the file up...00:14
TiagoTiagoit doesn't happen in any other page?00:15
nox-i havent checked00:15
jaemnox-: I assume you're not searching for anything odd that could be mistyped without being visually obvious?00:15
nox-dont think so00:16
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TiagoTiagodoes the page in question pass all the WC3 tests that apply?00:16
jaemTiagoTiago: That shouldn't affect Find, should it?00:17
jaemAt least, not unless something is really wrong with it.00:17
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jaemnox-: For that matter, I presume it /is/ HTML?00:17
TiagoTiagodunno, perhaps some non compliant part is confusing the browser?00:17
nox-yes it is00:17
DocScrutinizer51it finds and highlights the text, but scrolls to wrong location00:17
* slonopotamus yawns00:18
nox-DocScrutinizer51, well it didnt scroll at all...00:18
jaemslonopotamus: How is it that yawns are contagious even over IRC, and still science has no sure explanation?00:18
TiagoTiagoI've been having issues where doublicking to zoom somtimes send the browser to the end of the page isntead of focusing on the item in question, but the zoom still happens as expected00:18
slonopotamuswell, search is just broken in maemo00:18
TiagoTiagomirror neurons00:18
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jaemTiagoTiago: I've seen that glitch the odd time00:18
MohammadAG51jaem, they're not00:19
TiagoTiagothey also help paralysed people rehabilitate just by watching people moving on TV00:19
slonopotamusjaem: yawns don't care about irc00:19
jaemMohammadAG51: they are for me. :/00:19
* MohammadAG51 yawns00:19
MohammadAG51nope, they're not00:19
* slonopotamus tries to decide whether he should start one more useless flame talk00:20
jaemslonopotamus: no00:20
TiagoTiagoI saw this thing about this speaker that modualted audible sound on ultrasound to make it propagate  with less dispersion and still be hearable as if it was just regular sound, could it work with FM transmittions to pigback a transmission bellow the range of the transmitter?00:21
SpeedEvilTiagoTiago: no.00:21
TiagoTiagowhy not?00:21
TiagoTiagowould the coils still ressonate the same?00:21
slonopotamusjaem: could you give us open drivers for n900 hw then?00:22
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: 4200:22
TiagoTiagolike how when you strike a note on a string a few octaves up or down of another string and the other string also vibrates?00:22
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TiagoTiagothat is how it works00:23
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TiagoTiagoperhaps modulating pulses of FM bursts?00:23
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MohammadAG51idk what this is about btw, i'm just saying what you said correctly :P00:23
DocScrutinizernobody knows00:23
TiagoTiagoah, yeah,  somtimes my typonese is too fluent for comfort00:24
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* DocScrutinizer heads out to get a few beer, otherwise feels disconnected to general mood here00:25
MohammadAG51i guess those 300 pages of physics helped00:25
TiagoTiagosorry u.u00:25
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TiagoTiagoWoah, i've jsut realized it, if the "there is an app for that" mantra was actually real, that would make the iPhone the physical manifestation of rule 34!!!! 0.000:33
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jaemTiagoTiago: There /is/ an app for that... Apple just banned it.00:34
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crashanddieholy shit01:13
crashanddiemachine gun was just fired01:13
MohammadAG51crashanddie, do what i do01:13
MohammadAG51don't give a crap01:13
crashanddiewell, I'd like to check if the car's fine01:13
tybolltcrashie: Still in .ie?01:13
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crashanddietybollt: .ie?01:14
anarcati can't set a lockcode on my n90001:14
crashanddieI've never been in .ie01:14
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anarcatit seems that i set one by mistake01:14
tybolltcrashanddie: ehr... then crack is what I am on :)01:14
tybolltcrashanddie: UK then?01:14
crashanddienha, left the UK some 8 months ago now01:14
crashanddiesouth of france, touristic area and all01:14
TiagoTiagowhat out for hidden gunners01:15
anarcati've read this thread but it's just freakin crazy
anarcati don't feel like downloading and running a random a.out from a forum01:15
tybolltcrashanddie: aaah so its the ETA out and about then...01:15
anarcatit's 1234501:16
anarcatbloody hell01:16
anarcatgotta change the combination on my luggage01:16
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TiagoTiagoread down, there is a way to crack the existing passwword without overwriting stuff (at least from what i've read so far)01:20
MohammadAG51didn't qwerty12 find a way to corrupt it?01:20
BCMMis there a way to put the applications in alphabetical order without installing catorise or some such?01:21
MohammadAG51open terminal, rm .config/menus/hildon.menu01:22
MohammadAG51menu will regerate with a-z order01:22
TiagoTiagothat doesn't sound safe01:22
MohammadAG51except for preinstalled apps01:22
MohammadAG51TiagoTiago, it is safe, deal with it01:22
TiagoTiagobut what do i know01:22
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:23
TiagoTiagoyou too01:23
MohammadAG51hildon-desktop regenerates it01:23
BCMMMohammadAG51: thanks01:23
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BCMMis there a map program which easily allows you to put a persistent "pin" in the map, as one can in google earth?01:27
BCMMe.g. mark that fish&chip shop you can never find on the map or something01:27
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jaemBCMM: I don't know about currently, but the Landmarks API in Qt Mobility supports that, so any new apps using those libs could easily add such a feature.01:28
jaemThere may be some now - I'm just mentioning that.01:28
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BCMMjaem: what is qt mobility?01:33
BCMMoh i see, there is an API for managing places of interest01:34
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jaemBCMM: It's a set of libraries Nokia/Qt is working on to augment Qt with access to functionality of mobile devices.01:34
BCMMtbh, a simple lat/long/description/possibly colour of marker in a text file would do for management, and it probably wouldn't be a huge deal to implement it on top of maep's lib01:35
jaemQt is great, but if your mobile app still needs to handle every phone's camera/GPS/telephony subsystem separately, it means the benefits of Qt are limited01:35
jaemhence QtMobility01:35
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jaemBCMM: Oh, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't possible (or simple) now, or that it /isn't/ implemented in anything01:35
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jaemI was just pointing out that that functionality is baked into the new libraries, so there's little excuse for apps using them to not do so. :P01:36
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TiagoTiagoDo you know of somthing like Dropbox, with multiplatform clients, but that stores the files in a gmail account )much bigger storage)02:12
kthomas_vhwith a maemo client ? :)02:12
nox-wasnt there some gmail fuse thing?02:12
nox-(does fusefs work on maemo?)02:13
* TiagoTiago goes look "fusefs" on Wikipedia02:14
TiagoTiago"There were no results matching the query. " :(02:14
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luke-jrwhat's a flash-fading blue light mean?02:15
TiagoTiagoyou got mail?02:15
luke-jrwell it wouldn't turn on02:16
luke-jrso I pulled the battery02:16
TiagoTiagocheck the dashboard for a big yellow card (i dunno what color it is if you're using any theme other than the default one)02:16
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nox-i see fuse-utils in apt so its probably working02:18
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nox-anyone here know for sure?02:18
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MohammadAG51btw, apt-utils in repos02:19
MohammadAG51and synaptic, but there's a missing dependency02:19
MohammadAG51you can get it from the sdk repos, sgml-data afaik02:19
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nox-(not in apt so would at least need to be ported)02:21
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DocScrutinizerfuse is working02:27
DocScrutinizereven sshfs02:28
DocScrutinizercehteh did it02:29
nox-do you know about gmailfs?02:30
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TiagoTiagowait, Gmilfs? lol02:33
MohammadAG51gMILFs? lol02:34
TiagoTiagono, the G is part of it02:34
MohammadAG51gnu milfs02:34
* TiagoTiago is laughing out loud for real picturing the reaction of the rest of the participants of the channel02:36
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mortiniTiagoTiago: new to the gilf thing, i guess?02:40
mortini <- sfw.02:41
mortiniperhaps not your mind. but.02:41
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TiagoTiagoIS there a tutorial somewhere that will teach me what to do to setup the gmailfs fuse thing?02:54
MohammadAG51off to bed, might be away for a day or two, break from IRC etc etc02:54
MohammadAG51night all02:54
TiagoTiagorest well, cya02:55
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oilgameI coded python+gtk script and made .deb from it. It runs fine when I start it from terminal, but when I start it from icon it just loads from couple seconds and then nothing. Any ideas?02:56
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TiagoTiagodoes it got a , the N900 doesn't recognize the energency number for my country....03:06
TiagoTiagogood thing this isn't an emergency03:06
TiagoTiagodoesn't recognize the emergency number for Mercosul either03:09
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TiagoTiagoWAit, is it illegal for me to have a mobile that doesn't recognize the emrgency numbers for where i live?03:11
Heag-do u know is samsung galaxy s better than nokia n900?03:12
TiagoTiagobased on all i know on the toipic, i would say no, but i don't know anything about samsung galaxy, so i could be wrong03:12
mortiniTiagoTiago: probably depends on your local laws.03:12
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TiagoTiagoit's not like they're gonna reach in my pocket, reboot the device and try to dial it, and AFAIK we no where it says we must carry a cellphone with us at all times in case of emergency, so i'll probably not risk get arrested at all, but i probably shuold figure out where i need to file this bug report03:14
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TiagoTiagoShuld i go straight to Nokia or is there some place to report such issues online?03:19
ieatlintfrom what i recall of emergency calls on gsm, it's less about the number you call and more of a specific protocol configured at the cell tower03:20
ieatlinti would bet if you called 112 or 911 you'd get emergency services on it03:21
ieatlintbut yeah, i would find a place to submit a bug report03:21
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TiagoTiagomy N73 recognises 911, 112 and the local emergency number, my N900 only knows about 911 and 11203:21
TiagoTiagoso it's not somthing from the towers, unless this is another mobile phone standard the N900 ignores03:23
ieatlintno, not what i meant03:23
ieatlinti mean you call your emergency number, the phone initiates an emergency call, and the tower can route it03:24
kerioemergency is emergency03:24
ieatlintfor instance, where i live, if i call 911 in the city i get the local dispatch because the towers route 911 to them, but if i call on the motorway, i get the state police dispatch03:24
kerioyou're allowed to connect to *any* cell tower, regardless of carrier03:25
ieatlintsame if i call 112, or 99903:25
kerioand there's no "number", for mobile phones03:25
TiagoTiagohm, i didn't try 999 on either device03:25
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kerionot sure if it's rapuyama that needs to know that, or the ui03:25
ieatlintwell, the phone shouldn't be storing the numbers twice, so the lower level should be it03:26
ieatlintdouble bookkeeping is bad03:26
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keriodouble bookkeeping is awesome!03:27
keriodouble bookkeeping is awesome!03:27
TiagoTiagowell, it could have the international standards hardcoded plus additional parameters in a softer part of the system03:27
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xae8kooI am planning to byt a new cellphone as my Nokia N97 was stolen. Can anyone here recommen Nokia N900?03:36
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viszno, get an iphone03:37
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kerioxae8koo: are you a linux user?03:40
kerioalso, the n900 is not a phone03:40
TiagoTiago~/MyDocs/.documents/Download $ javaws freenet.jnlp03:42
TiagoTiago/usr/bin/javaws: exec: line 6: /opt/icedtea6/bin/javaws.real: not found03:42
TiagoTiagocan i do anythign about it?03:42
xae8kookerio: I use Ubuntu for my laptops, becasue Debian is a hassle with the wireless cards.03:44
xae8koovisz: I'd rather burn my head03:45
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viszwhat kerio said03:46
kerioxae8koo: expect some quirkyness and general unconsistancy of the UI03:47
viszallthough i wouldn't count n97 as a phone either03:47
kerioapart from that, it's a *great* toy03:47
keriobuy it03:47
viszno reason not to buy it03:48
xae8kooBecause my N97 was stolen and the insurance money will most likley cover most of it now.03:48
xae8kooEasy Debian seems quite intresting03:48
viszif you're looking for a pocket computer03:48
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xae8kooI am looking for a device with phone capabilities that I can show of to my friend who has Htc Hero and make him feel worthless.03:49
xae8kooIn a kind caring way, ofcourse03:49
viszandroid has nice animated backgrounds03:50
xae8kooN900 doesn't?03:51
xae8kooThat can be an issue03:51
xae8kooBut I think N900 is bether for watching movies03:51
viszdoubt that03:51
xae8kooI has a video card, and support H.26403:52
viszwhy would you watch movies on such a small display?03:52
TiagoTiagowhat about live wallpapaers?03:53
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TiagoTiagoIf you know how to use it, the N900 will be the most awesome pocket thing you ever had, but if you don't,  it might be annoying and even disapointing03:55
xae8kooTiagoTiago: I can get around Linux fairly well03:56
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TiagoTiagothen it's probably the device for you03:56
TiagoTiagoit migth have a few quirks, but there is no other device on the market that can run a regular desktop distro AND work like a cellphone03:57
TiagoTiagoat least not AFAIK03:57
xae8kooCan I run EVERY Debian program on it? Ofcourse if it has enough ram/cpu/graphis...03:58
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TiagoTiagono, many need to be adapted, but there are several already done03:58
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nox--do i see that right that firefox is only available via ovi store which needs a registration?03:59
TiagoTiagoand you can kinda run debian with EasyDeb which i uses chroot ( know much less about these topics than you )03:59
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TiagoTiagoi know much less*03:59
TiagoTiagowhich uses*04:00
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FIQfor me, the N900 was the device that get me to use linux more serious (before, i've just tested it "for the lulz", for example Kubuntu), even if i could the very basics of how linux works before. :p04:00
xae8kooI feel it seams great. Is the screen good?04:01
kerioxae8koo: easy debian just needs a recompile, for normal programs04:01
kerioif you want them within maemo, you kinda *have* to adapt the UI of course04:01
kerioxae8koo: it is04:02
kerioit's a bit small though04:02
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TiagoTiagoi don't know the diagonal measurement by heart though04:02
keriovery high ppi count04:02
xae8kooI think it was 3,504:02
TiagoTiagoside to side the whole thing is about as long as my N73 is tall04:03
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TiagoTiagothere is about 1.5 centimeters that are not screen on each side04:03
kerioxae8koo: depending on the place you live, you may want to remap some keys04:04
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kerioalso the battery management entity (bme) sucks04:04
kerioand some builtin nokia apps suck and are not opensourced04:04
TiagoTiago5mp camera with Zeiss optics :)04:04
kerioand bla bla bla04:05
kerioit has its flaws04:05
TiagoTiagoyeah, it's not perfect, but you're not gonna find anythign else like it out there04:05
kerioand yet, it's still better than any wannabe-smart phones04:05
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xae8kookerio: Oh, I am Norwegian I use the "ÆØÅ" characteres04:05
FIQnational layouts exists? or do you mean remap as in improve useless key bindings?04:06
kerioFIQ: national layouts exist04:06
kerioxae8koo: what kind of linux nerd are you? :/ i'm talking about ~$&|<>[]{}04:06
TiagoTiagoit's not a smartphone, its a mobile computer that has cell phone functionality04:06
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xae8kookerio: Hehe, those were fairly easy to find on my N9704:07
kerio(those are not present by default on the italian kbd layout)04:07
kerioand it will probably v04:08
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xae8kooI will call the insurance company tomorrow and tell them to hurry up04:08
TiagoTiagoIf Bush junior had been elected 4 yearslater we could have been in the middle of a nuclear war, Iran and N. Korea got da bomb 0.004:08
FIQAh, you meant improve useless key bindings then04:08
GeneralAntillesHi, rm_you.04:09
xae8kooHas any of you used the infared port as a remote control?04:09
kerioFIQ: i have those characters intelligently mapped to shift+fn+key04:09
rm_youHey GA04:09
kerioxae8koo: qtirreco04:09
keriohuge database of tv remotes04:09
xae8kookerio: Does it work well? easy to configure?04:09
* FIQ lags04:09
kerio(the ir port is basically just a led though)04:09
FIQah, i use that as well. :p04:09
kerioxae8koo: yeah, it is04:09
kerionice ui too04:10
FIQbut just for the most critical ones04:10
rm_youGeneralAntilles: in the last three months I've gotten a new job, moved into a different house, bought a car, and switched to all of my own bankiing/insurance/everything services04:10
rm_youI feel like a real adult O_o04:10
keriocould be better though - the buttons are HUUUGE04:10
TiagoTiago'grats :)04:10
GeneralAntillesrm_you, lol, congrats.04:10
GeneralAntillesWhat'd you buy?04:10
GeneralAntillesand when will you be a homeowner? :P04:10
rm_you2006 Mazda3 S04:10
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GeneralAntillesFun car04:11
FIQlike &%|~04:11
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rm_youwas looking for a manual, but this one was an auto and a really good deal / lucky find04:12
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rm_youso I went with it04:12
GeneralAntillesOh, it's not actually manual?04:12
GeneralAntillesToo bad.04:12
rm_younope :(04:12
rm_youbut still fun04:12
GeneralAntillesMy friend just did that with a 2006 Civic Sport.04:12
GeneralAntillesThese days, if it aint stick, it's not for me.04:12
rm_youif i feel like being a poser I can switch it to fake-manual mode, rofl04:13
rm_youwhich is kind of a joke but lets me at least do things like shift properly around corners04:13
GeneralAntillesSort of04:13
TiagoTiagoe lawyer that escaped Iran is saying people should focus on the human rights stuff instead of the nuclear stuff, well, if they got the world on ranmson with nukes, it will be even harder to make changes in thigns like humans rights04:13
GeneralAntillesMostyly it's hilariously slow and useless and shifts on its own ANYWAY. :P04:13
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TiagoTiagothat is not that car that lets you decide what gear to go next beforehand and it will change when it thinks it's the right time?04:14
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rm_youit will let me redline it in 1st for as long as i want (or until my transmission fluid hits some heat threshold)04:15
rm_younot that i'd want to04:15
rm_youbut it doesn't seem to autoshift ever04:15
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rm_youfor most applications tho it's smarter about shifting than I am still (with respect to converving gas, at least)04:16
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GeneralAntillesMy dad's 06 Miata autoshifts.04:16
GeneralAntillesMeh, conserving gas is no fun. :P04:16
rm_youthis one doesn't seem to, in my somewhat limited testing04:16
rm_youand the manual just says "if the transmission fluid overheats, it will switch back to auto mode"04:16
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rm_youi guess it's kinda like having an electronic assist manual transmission? except still using a slush-box <_<04:17
rm_youbetter than my volvo that had "Low" and "3rd" as its alternatives to Auto04:18
TiagoTiagoIf i ever get a car, and if i can afford it, i want one of those with a CVT and computadorized torque control per wheel04:18
SpeedEvilCVT is quite lossy04:19
FIQInteresting, my battery percentage seems to have stopped at 100%04:19
FIQI took out the charger 1h ago04:19
FIQ(not N900, i use P1i atm)04:19
* FIQ don't belive the meter04:20
GeneralAntillesTiagoTiago, no you don't.04:20
GeneralAntillesCVT is the worst.04:20
TiagoTiagoreally?  all i've heard about CVTs is they allow for the engine to run at ideal RPM regardless of speed04:20
TiagoTiagoand other good stuff04:20
rm_youonce this one is completely paid for (not actually too long) and then i save up a bit, I want a Lancer Evo (or maybe just a Ralliart)04:21
rm_youbut i was tired of having to hit my starter with a stick when i got in my car in the morning04:21
rm_youso I got this in the meantime... a pretty decent car for a very affordable price04:22
rm_youanyway... it feels like forever since I've done Maemo-y stuff04:22
TiagoTiagohow's the fuel consumption compared to the alternatives?04:22
rm_youfor CVT? or for the mazda3? lol04:23
rm_yousupposedly 30 on the highway04:23
rm_youi used to get 17 on the highway with my volvo <_<04:23
TiagoTiagolol, another new mnkey species found04:23
TiagoTiagoseems we might find bigfoot in this century04:23
rm_youabout the save as everything i looked at except honda hybrids04:24
SpeedEvilCVTs typically have moderately large radiators to cool the transmission fluid.04:24
infobotrm_you meant: about the same as everything i looked at except honda hybrids04:24
SpeedEvilThis is to cool the transmission fluid, and to remove the substantial waste heat.04:24
rm_youoff (or on, depending how you look at it) topic: how Meegoized are things getting around here?04:24
rm_yousince i've been more or less invisible for the last few months, i feel like i must have missed a lot04:25
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rm_youi was looking at buying tickets for Dublin04:25
TiagoTiagohm, they don't got any better lubes and geometries etc  yet?04:25
pigeonhas anyone actually killed their n900 by overclocking yet?04:25
Galg3hi dudes04:25
TiagoTiagothe other day i tried loading the ideal profile and after half a sec of flaky responsivenes my N900 rebooted, i'll not touch overclicking again anytime soon :/04:26
pigeonfair enough04:26
Galg3anyone compiled fish encryption for xchat on the n900 yet ?04:27
pigeonhmm, that changes the voltage stuff right?04:27
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rm_youi'm busy being sad at lack of any working youtube client04:27
rm_you@scene looks AWESOME but hasn't worked for me yet because of youtube API changes04:28
TiagoTiagobumps the maximum clock to 850 and does somthing with the voltage, i think it also messes with the minimum voltage04:28
TiagoTiagominimum clokck*04:29
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pigeoni've tried briefly just kernel-config limits04:34
nox-where is the ir transmitter on the n900?04:34
TiagoTiagoi was under the impression the ideal profile was one of the lightest ones, so if that one made my N900 reboot in less than a second, any other profile will probably summon blue smoke04:34
TiagoTiagoto the right of the camera button04:34
pigeoni don't know enough about voltages myself.04:35
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TiagoTiagobut OC'ing is a russian roullette, some chips can handle it just fine while others get instabrick04:36
TiagoTiagoand to make things even more coomplciate, some appear to handle it just fine, and then some time later they will suddenly fry, even if the OC'ing has been undone04:37
TiagoTiagoi guess that means i've been awaken for too long04:37
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xae8kooHave I understood this correctly. The N900 is able to run Maemo 5 programs, Symbian S60 ver 5 programs, and Debian packages (compiled for easy debian)?04:39
TiagoTiagoI believe Symbian progs need to be ported, which is easier if they're made with qt04:41
Galg3TiagoTiago u seen any chatting about fish encryption for xchat here ?04:42
Galg3google didnt help me much04:42
Galg3or im too tired :-)04:42
TiagoTiagothere might have been, i don't remember noticing it though04:42
TiagoTiagocheck the chat log :)04:42
Galg3wanna compile src on the n90004:43
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Galg3think ill go to bed first :-)04:43
Galg3nn TiagoTiago04:43
TiagoTiagoyou too04:43
SpeedEvilGalg3: Fish cannot work04:44
Galg3oh okey ?04:44
SpeedEvilGalg3: Fish is x86 asm code at the core04:44
Galg3why not04:44
Galg3ah okey04:44
SpeedEvilGalg3: So unless someone ports it, it won't work.04:44
SpeedEvilWell - or maybe does rthe dsbox thing04:45
Galg3crap :-(04:45
Galg3well ill just use irssi then04:45
TiagoTiagoor with qemu?04:45
SpeedEvilIIRC - from someone discussiong it a couple of months ago.04:45
SpeedEvilI could be remembering somerthing different.04:45
TiagoTiagoirssi go the fish thing you're looking for04:45
* nox- wonders why irc encryption needs to be written in asm... as if performance would be that important :)04:46
TiagoTiagoXCHAT does work on the N900 already, dunno about encryption stuff with it though04:46
ds3all IRC clients needs to be able to flood sufficiently or it'll look bad ;)04:46
Galg3TiagoTiago ill just ssh to a irssi client , so no need to compil it on the phone04:47
TiagoTiagowhat do you consider "sufficient flood"?04:47
TiagoTiagothere is irssi for the N900 already04:47
Galg3yeah i know04:47
TiagoTiagoah, it lacks fish04:47
Galg3yeah hehe04:47
TiagoTiagowhjatever that is04:47
Galg3for the chatting04:48
TiagoTiagoi see04:48
* SpeedEvil slaps Galg3 with a trout.04:48
Galg3SpeedEvil u know that i like thaT ?:-)04:48
TiagoTiagoshard secret or somthing more like OTR?04:48
Galg3TiagoTiago dont want ppl too see what i do in pm and such :-)04:48
TiagoTiagohe was looking for fish afterall04:48
SpeedEvilGalg3: DCC chat does not go through the server04:49
Galg3and ?04:49
Heag-is maemo like ubuntu? :)04:49
Heag-apt-get etc :D04:50
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TiagoTiagoto a certain extent04:50
SpeedEvilclaims that fish soruce is avaialble for xchat04:52
SpeedEvilif this is really source, it should be mergeable into the xhat port on maemo04:52
Galg3nah doesnt work04:53
Galg3tried it04:53
SpeedEvilHeag-: yes - apt-get works04:53
nox-hm the only asm i see in xchat fish's is in DH1080.c and thats just an rdtsc (read timecounter)04:53
SpeedEvilGalg3: tried what?04:53
Galg3to compile it04:53
SpeedEvilnox-: Ok - maybe the person I was recalling was confused, as I do see as imple xchat binary plugin04:53
SpeedEvilso maybe thart rwas what they were thinkin of.04:53
SpeedEvilGalg3: why doesn't it work?04:54
nox-wait it depends on miracl, have to check if that uses asm too...04:54
Galg3hmm sorry dont remember , was a cpl of month's ago i tried04:54
Galg3and thought i would check if there was a solution now04:55
nox-hm theres an arm.txt in miracl04:55
nox-talks about building a c-only library04:55
Galg3tried to load the precompiled binarys for linux , but didnt work :-)04:55
SpeedEvilqemu-lib would be intreresting04:56
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TiagoTiagowhen isntalling stuff, if given an option, it's better to put it inside /opt, correct?04:59
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pigeonhmm, weird, there's nothing really using the cpu, but the current freq is 50005:00
TiagoTiagodid you isntall the power kernel?05:00
pigeonfreq range is default 125-60005:01
TiagoTiagoit  blocks 125 and 250 i think05:01
pigeonavoid frequencies: 12505:01
pigeonaccording to kernel-config show anyway05:01
TiagoTiagowhen the device really is iddle it goes to 0 instead of the low clocks that use more energey than they should05:01
TiagoTiagoi think05:02
Galg3so you get better battery capacity ?05:02
TiagoTiagoi thinkt hat is the idea05:02
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TiagoTiagobut you shouldn't be taking my word on it, i'm quite a newbie in the matters05:04
pigeonoh right, i'm reading the overclocking page on the wiki, usb plugged means locks to 50005:04
pigeonminimum, that is.05:04
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TiagoTiagotripple nine also doesn't get recognized as an emergency number05:22
yigalAnyone know if the size on the offline Wikipedia dumps are for the compressed or uncompressed size, given ?05:25
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yigalbecause if it's just the compressed file then uncompressed 8GB could be 160GB which won't fit on 32GB.05:28
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TiagoTiagoshould i be considering trying to figure out how to make run on my N900?05:29
yigalis your work using it?05:32
TiagoTiagoI'm just looking for a multiplatform thing that will allow me to share significant amoutns of data betweeen my computer and my N900 even over the internet, kinda like DropBox, but with less restrictions05:34
yigalrsync, ssh05:34
TiagoTiagoeven if one of the devices is not online at the moment05:35
TiagoTiagolike with DropBox05:36
rm_youi suppose "make your computer always be online" isn't an acceptable solution? :P05:36
TiagoTiagoi wish05:36
rm_youanyone know if there is a way to get to text messages stored on my SIM? (from my old phone)05:38
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rm_youcan i import them or something?05:38
TiagoTiagois your old phone a Nokia?05:38
rm_youi thought texts stored on SIM were standard tho, like contacts?05:39
rm_youjust don't know if there is actually an option to import them (can't even find importing for contacts anymore but i know i did it originally)05:39
TiagoTiagoI've been told the N900 doesn't follow all standards commonly avaiable on regular mobiles05:40
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zeltakg'night guys..anyone know how to use the "alt" key on maemo (needed when sshing into my server)>05:42
TiagoTiagoonly some05:43
TiagoTiagotoggle it in the terminal bar?05:43
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zeltakTiagoTiago: how do you "toggle" it?05:45
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TiagoTiagooh oh05:45
TiagoTiagoi remember seeing it there, it was in a menu in the left side of the barr int he bottom, i brought up the terminal now and couldn't find it :(05:47
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zeltakgotcha :)05:50
TiagoTiagoi think there is a thread somewhere in tmo about customizing the terminal shortcut bar05:51
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DocScrutinizerfish - pffff05:53
nox-whats the `real' solution? :)05:54
DocScrutinizerlike sending postcards with invisible ink05:54
DocScrutinizernox-: a private channel? with key?05:54
nox-ah otr yeah, if it works on irc too05:55
DocScrutinizernox-: DCC, ssh to a private server and use talk? even ssh from one client to the other?05:55
TiagoTiagoshould work for one on one convos05:55
nox-DocScrutinizer, :)05:56
DocScrutinizerwould I use advertisment poster space to communicate to one other person in privacy?05:56
TiagoTiagoou were a spook perhaps05:57
TiagoTiagoif you were*05:57
DocScrutinizerI know of a dude who did excel all his life. He programmed an editor, each cell one char, with linewrap, insert and all05:57
nox-so Galg3 now you know :)05:57
nox-(i think it was you who asked?)05:57
nox-haha DocScrutinizer05:58
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DocScrutinizerwhat I want to say: if you want to communicate unnoticed, the don't use a system that is designed for public chat from first to last byte05:58
xnt14TiagoTiago, you can customize the terminal's tab bar?05:58
TiagoTiagoi think saw a thread about that in tmo, i don't remember any details though05:59
* xnt14 searches05:59
xnt14why does my chromium window keep on disappearing? :P05:59
DocScrutinizerqualifier keys like alt never worked for me, even when customized to xterm toolbar05:59
TiagoTiagobut some people don't mind others knowing they are talking, they just don't want them to know what they are saying05:59
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nox-so now way to have alt on n900?06:00
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xnt14nox-, remap keyboard?06:00
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: yes, I also sometimes prefer not to hear what somebody is saying06:00
nox-xnt14, ah that works?06:01
TiagoTiagostick your fingers in your earholes and sing lahalahlah very loud06:01
xnt14nox-, hmm, apparently... -
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nox-thx :)06:03
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: nah, I'm fine with all the way it is. It's just I don't get why somebody would think about how to use a secret code when shouting across the market square. There are quite obviously better ways to do that06:04
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TiagoTiagoperhaps they wanna rub on toher people's faces they aren't part of the convo?06:05
DocScrutinizerand I bet your next post is with a ? at end06:05
DocScrutinizerhah knew it06:05
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: /join #openmoko-devel :-P You know, we engineers are talking about megasecret secrets in this secret channel, since so long it's secret I can't tell you :-P06:07
DocScrutinizerand no fish around there06:08
DocScrutinizerfish is BS and nonsense06:08
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TiagoTiagothere gotta be an encryption system for chatting that for third parties appear to be just two chatbots locked in debate06:09
DocScrutinizerfo rnoobs who think they look geek that way06:09
xnt14TiagoTiago, hmm, how would that work...06:09
xnt14I remember there was a proof-of-concept twitter botnet...06:10
TiagoTiagochatbots often speak weirdly, msgs would be encoded in variations on the weirdness06:10
xnt14basically normal twitter messages and hash tags controlled the botnet06:10
xnt14!burn something06:10
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xnt14~burn something06:10
* infobot pours gasoline all over something, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze06:11
xnt14how is that weird? :P06:11
TiagoTiagoperhaps emulating ELIZA by repeating certain parts of previous msgs, which parts are repated would also encode more data06:11
* xnt14 googles06:11
DocScrutinizerso I gather TiagoTiago has to be a chatbot ;-P06:11
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TiagoTiagoi've met several turing drop outs, and even once doubted a human was not a bot, but i'm do'nt remember ever being compared to one while chatting naturally06:12
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TiagoTiagothough i do recognize somtimes the style of my prose might be considered non-normal, and even awkward06:13
DocScrutinizerand kinda floody06:13
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: tell the key!06:14
TiagoTiagoi use lots of words, explain myself attempting to not leave a doubt, and insist on providing corrections on many errors the readers would likelly deduce themselves, i guess i don't feel confortable when i can't be sure other people are keeping up with me nor when there is even a slight chance they will think my spelling and grammar skills  are worse than they really are06:15
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DocScrutinizerbut... how is that related to /topic ?06:17
luke-jrTiagoTiago: /join #yandere06:17
TiagoTiagowasn't it you that brought it up?06:17
TiagoTiagowhat's there lu?06:18
TiagoTiagoernm what happened witht he tab?06:18
TiagoTiago luke-jr*06:18
luke-jrTiagoTiago: I ate your tab key06:18
luke-jrTiagoTiago: IRC game06:18
luke-jrmore appropriate for random rambling06:18
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TiagoTiagooh, isee06:18
luke-jrbecause we can lynch you if it's annoying06:19
TiagoTiagowell, when people touch on topic topics, i do restrain myself here06:19
TiagoTiagoor at least i try to06:19
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xae8kooI am almost sure now, I want an N90006:22
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TiagoTiagosee? no one is saying anything,  so random talk right now wouldn't interfere with any on topic convos06:24
DocScrutinizerit's interfering with my nerves when reading backscroll06:25
TiagoTiagoI see06:25
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DocScrutinizerand, btw, those silence periods tend to be much more frequent and prolonged after some user stopped talking OT monolog. Probably because everybody turned away06:26
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TiagoTiago've seen them happen when on topic  convos died out as well06:27
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DocScrutinizeranother useful post06:28
TiagoTiagothat was an reply to somthing you said06:28
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xnt14g2g - sleep06:28
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ieatlinthaha, there's a package called liblongcat for maemo..06:30
ieatlintnot sure what it does, just saw it on an upgrade list06:31
ieatlint"A base plugin for writing accounts plugins, which makes it easier and needs less code."06:31
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archebyteI have a n00b question about the maemo5 kernel.07:20
sobczykhi, I'm trying to send files through BT to my pc but it always fails, I have a second cellphone and it works07:21
archebytewhere is it located ? I am looking for a zImage file. right?07:21
archebyteI mean on the N900..07:21
sobczykit displays connection error: <my pc name> and that's all...07:22
SpeedEvilarchebyte: /dev/mtd0p?07:23
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archebyteSpeedEvil: hmm.. I have several mtd??? entries but no mtd0p..07:25
archebyteI am basically trying to run kexec and want to specify the kernel as a parameter..07:25
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sobczykok now I see it can be my pc problem....07:30
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SpeedEvilarchebyte: why?07:31
archebytetrying out Meego:
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SpeedEvilcat /proc/mtd07:32
SpeedEvil /dev/mtd307:32
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archebyteSpeedEvil: thnx. will give that a shot!07:35
archebyteThe N900 just turned black..probably off. after the kexec -e :)07:40
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archebytewill battle it again tomorrow. thanks!07:41
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iluminator101hey when i connect my n900 to ubuntu it does not show documents folder07:47
iluminator101i see dcim drive mapper etc07:48
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iluminator101documents is not showen?07:48
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iluminator101i just want to transfer some files from ubuntu to n900 documents folder thats all ?07:49
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xae8kooIS there a way to use the N900 as a 3G hotspot? A free way...07:51
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xae8kooSpeedEvil: Thanks08:42
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* timoph offers Stskeeps cup of black coffee09:27
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trip0so with maemo autobuilder and a Qt project, why doesn't "!maemo5:SUBDIRS += foo" work?09:35
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trip0rest easy ladies and gents, nobdy 0.0.3 is now in maemo extras10:08
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trip0err, extras-devel10:09
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astruasdhmy n900 is loosing the signal very often. In such cases I enter in offline mode, and then to the normal mode again, and the signal appear. is there some workaround for this problem?10:37
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ShadowJKi think you've discovered the workaround10:44
astruasdhmy n900 started to show a "no sim card" alert... I put a folded paper between the sim card holder and the battery, and this alert stopped10:45
astruasdhbut now I'm with this one10:45
korhojoa your n900 doesn't seem to like working as a phone then?10:46
astruasdhthe problem of the signal is not the phone stuff... but the 3g associated hehe10:49
MiXu-_My suggestion would be backup + reflash10:50
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MiXu-reflashing seems to make the device faster too10:50
astruasdhI'm planning change to a company in which I unlimited use the 3g10:50
astruasdhwhat is reflash?10:50
MiXu-reinstalling the firmware10:50
astruasdhhmmm so I install a new firmware?10:51
MiXu-You need to reinstall all the software after that but it's quite easy to do if you have the backup10:51
MiXu-That's what I would do. Another option is that you take it to service and have them do it for you.10:51
astruasdhMiXu-, no problem... I have few apps installed10:51
astruasdhto reflash I need to download a more recent firmware, is it?10:52
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astruasdhMiXu-, the updated that sometimes appear to do touches the firmware?10:53
MiXu-It's all there, but make sure you read it all first. There's always a risk with flashing.10:53
MiXu-Although I've done it a hundred times (not exaggerating) and haven't had problems.10:53
astruasdhgot it10:53
astruasdhMiXu-, is it possible to know if now I have the most updated firmware?10:54
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MiXu-yeah, you can check it by pressing *#0000# in dialre10:55
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MiXu-If I recall correctly the newest is 2010.19-something10:55
BluesLeehow do i tell the mediaplayer to play a saved playlist from terminal?10:55
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astruasdhMiXu-, V 10.2010.19-1.00210:59
astruasdhdo I need to reflash even in this case that I have the newest version?10:59
MiXu-Ok, that's the newest one then. You should download RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin11:00
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MiXu-There's the download link in the wiki11:00
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astruasdhMiXu-, do u think it could be some contact problem of my sim card? maybe I need to put a bigger paper...11:07
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MiXu-It is possible. I don't know how the device reacts if the sim card comes loose while it's running.11:08
MiXu-But the fact that offline -> online cycle fixes it suggests something else is wrong11:09
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MohammadAG51i've been having sim problems11:09
MohammadAG51turns out sim cards in jordan are shit, shove a paper in there11:09
MiXu-At least for me the sim fits pretty tightly. If yours is really loose, then it's possible that more paper would help :)11:09
MohammadAG51i have two layers on the sim11:10
astruasdhdid u put the paper inside the sim card holder?11:10
MohammadAG51yeah, on the non-contact part of course11:10
MiXu-I'd use some tape instead of paper but it's your call :)11:11
MohammadAG51put the paper on the holder then slide it11:11
astruasdhMiXu-, if this is a firmware problem, the reflash will solve even if I have the newest firmware?11:11
astruasdhMohammadAG51, worked?11:11
MohammadAG51MiXu-, tape might go bad if the device gets hot11:11
astruasdhI put the paper between sim card holder and battery11:11
MiXu-astruasdh: Yes it's possible. I had an issue with the device not ringing on incoming calls. That was fixed with a reflash.11:11
MohammadAG51astruasdh, yeah, doesn't cross out the sim anymore11:11
MiXu-MohammadAG51: True11:11
astruasdhMohammadAG51, I used to have a "no sim card" icon... before puting the paper, it stoped... but now I have no signal hehe11:12
MohammadAG51hmm, same problem here11:12
astruasdhops, after put11:12
MohammadAG51i used to answer calls, then it would drop them 2 minutes later11:13
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MohammadAG51or half a minute11:13
MohammadAG51which pissed me off, since it would reconnect in 5s11:13
kerioastruasdh: disabling and reenabling the phone does a search11:13
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astruasdhdo u still have the sinal problem?11:13
keriosame as changing frequencies11:13
astruasdhkerio, I'm working around with offline/normal mode11:13
MohammadAG51sometimes reloading the sim module works11:13
astruasdhbut the problem is that I dont know the time11:14
MohammadAG51ssi_mcsaab_imp.ko afaik11:14
astruasdhmy cellphone stay in my pocket... and I notice sometimes when I will talk11:14
astruasdhMohammadAG51, try to offline-mode and normal mode again11:14
astruasdhthis works for me11:14
MohammadAG51well it's fixed now, just put a paper on the sim, quick easy fix11:14
astruasdhI was thinking in writing some app to monitor the signal... if it drops, do the offline/normal modes11:15
astruasdhMohammadAG51, 2 layers?11:15
MiXu-Hmm. Okay I think I might know what the issue is. It's possible that it's actually a cellmo crash. Offline/normal cycle helps with that.11:15
MiXu-I've had some of those when using packet data in places where network is very bad.11:15
MiXu-Like while driving and listening to netradio11:16
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astruasdhwhat is cellmo? and is it possible to fix it?11:16
MiXu-cellular modem11:16
MiXu-If you have crash reporter installed it should let you know when it happens11:17
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MohammadAG51astruasdh, actually, 1 bent into 2 ;)11:23
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astruasdhMohammadAG51, done haha11:25
astruasdhI'll try with a 2 layer paper over the sim before reflashing it11:26
astruasdhif it fails, I'll reflash11:26
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MohammadAG51what's the best way to set up a personal repo?11:27
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astruasdhMohammadAG51, dunno11:37
astruasdhhave to go now11:38
astruasdhcya! ty guys!11:38
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jacekowskiMohammadAG51: just a repo or builder as well?11:42
MohammadAG51repo, that's enough for me11:42
jacekowskiwell, i'm using reprepro11:43
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VoltageX_Hi, can someone tell me how telepathy-idle (IRC for Conversations screen) works?12:35
RST38hworks somehow.12:36
VoltageX_I am unsure how to make it join channels12:39
VoltageX_an IRC option appears now in all my contacts on my N90012:39
RST38hit does not join channels12:40
RST38honly lets you communicate via /msg12:40
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* VoltageX_ runs apt-get remove12:40
pillarhey is it possible to12:41
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pillaroops .. to see windows shares on n900? I'm looking for an easy way to transfer files wirelessly back to my pc12:42
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jacekowskibut yes12:42
jacekowskisamba can do it in easy debian12:43
jacekowskiand iirc there was native app as well12:43
jacekowskibut it may be simpler to do it over scp from pc12:43
pillarnative app would be nice, haven't used easy debian12:43
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pillarjacekowski: yeah, but I'm looking at a scenario when I'm not at the computer12:44
timoph|awayor if you have ssh-server running on the device you can use scp. winscp in case of windows12:44
jacekowskitry apt-get install samba12:44
jacekowskishould work12:44
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pillardepends: update-inetd but it is not installable12:45
jacekowskiwhat about wizard-mounter12:47
pillarthat looks insteresting12:48
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VoltageX_if I have extras-testing enabled, but I want to pull a specific package from extras, what's the correct thing to pass to apt-get -t *release* packagename13:01
MohammadAGapt-get install packagename=versionnumber13:01
VoltageX_on debian it would be apt-get -t stable packagename13:02
MohammadAGI doubt anyone updates the changelog so it has stable instead of unstable13:02
VoltageX_no as in, stable, testing, unstable, experimental13:03
MohammadAGI know, but afaik those are defined in the changelog13:04
MohammadAGI doubt anyone follows standards13:04
VoltageX_they are defined in the package system13:04
VoltageX_as in extras, extras-testing and extras-devel13:04
MohammadAGnever seen that, you could try :)13:04
VoltageX_packagename=version worked13:05
VoltageX_but I've used -t for temporary pinning on debian proper, there must be an equivalent in Maemo13:05
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MohammadAGnot sure, you could ask X-Fade13:06
VoltageX_damn, now fmradio is really broken13:06
VoltageX_upgraded to devel by accident - the UI is broken. downgraded to extras, and now it doesn't start13:07
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MohammadAGwow, IMAP is slow on modest13:08
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jacekowskihmm, is it imap that's a problem?13:11
jacekowskii was always thinking that it's modest problem in general13:11
MohammadAGI think it's modest13:12
MohammadAGI've never used IMAP before, only used Nokia Messaging13:12
MohammadAG(afaik that uses IMAP too, but it has a plugin on its own)13:12
alteregoStrange, found the icon "camera_vide_pause" but the camera app doesn't allow you to pause video, (something I find kind of annoying) :/13:16
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VoltageX_note to self, do not use batttest -b 013:22
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MohammadAGdpkg: error processing phone-control (--configure):13:30
MohammadAG subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 25513:30
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MohammadAGcan someone please try to install phone-control from the repos? 0.2-3, postinst and postrm fail on my device, but they work on scratchbox13:33
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BluesLeehi there13:35
BluesLeecan someone tell me how i tell the mediaplayer to start a saved playlist from command line?13:36
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crashanddieBluesLee: probably through dbus13:37
alteregoBluesLee: it's a couple of dbus messages.13:37
alteregouse dbus monitor and the media player to see which ones.13:38
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BluesLeecrashanddie: i know that but the playlist seems to be hidden, maybe in the mafw sql database13:38
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BluesLeei want to use MohammadAG's script with desktop command widget for easy connecting and playing resp stopping using a headset13:40
BluesLeeMohammadAG51: ping13:40
BluesLeehi, thanx for the script which makes live easier13:40
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MohammadAGyou're welcome :)13:40
MohammadAGdoes it install fine btw?13:40
MohammadAGhmm, my N900's f'd then13:41
BluesLeeyou mean the latest version?13:41
MohammadAGyeah, and the one before13:41
BluesLeei installed it 4-5 hours ago13:41
MohammadAGthey didn't install on my device, they installed fine on scratchbox13:41
MohammadAGmind checking if the new one works?13:42
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BluesLeesure, one moment13:42
BluesLeeMohammadAG: should i upgrade or re-install the package?13:43
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MohammadAGheya lcukn90013:43
RST38hAnyone ever got subtitles working in the Media Player? I mean, ANYONE at all?13:43
RST38hmoo lcuk13:43
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alteregoHrm, I wonder how I'm supposed to process +/- key presses in QML ..13:44
MohammadAGcheck wiki?13:44
RST38hyou are not supposed to program in QML. you are supposed to program in C++.13:45
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alteregoWhy have key press event mechanisms then? ...13:46
BluesLeeMohammadAG: upgrade works13:46
RST38halterego: megalomania.13:46
MohammadAGoooh crap, my N900's borked then13:46
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alteregoI just want to do it for prototyping :P13:47
BluesLeeMohammadAG: playing a track with the mp gives me additional logs? something like "method return sender= ..."13:47
alteregoI guess it's almost time for me to move it into a proper project thoug13:47
MohammadAGBluesLee, dbus replies13:47
MohammadAGI could filter them out I guess13:47
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BluesLeeMohammadAG: i have a question though which should be possible with your script13:48
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BluesLeeMohammadAG: i want to use it in connection with the desktop command widgte or queenbee doing following: if bt is off -> turn it on, sleep 15 s, in the meantime i turn on my headset, start playinf a playlist with the mediaplayer13:50
MohammadAGhmm, there isn't a way to start playing a playlist afaik13:50
BluesLeeMohammadAG: if bt is on -> stopp mediaplayer, turn it off13:51
MohammadAGI could be wrong, I'm not a dbus person :P13:51
* MohammadAG pokes alterego 13:51
BluesLeei could switch to an alternative player but i dont know if it would support my headset13:51
MohammadAGdoesn't pulseaudio route audio to a headset13:52
MohammadAGi.e all audio should be routed?13:52
MohammadAGdon't have a BT headset (yet), so can't test :)13:52
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keriobt headset should mean everything is routed13:53
keriohmm, bt headset + fm transmitter should allow for music + call13:53
BluesLeeMohammadAG: how should the option --mp-resume work?13:53
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kerioactually, bt headset + normal speaker should13:53
BluesLeethats fine13:53
MohammadAG--mp-resume? resumes a paused song afiak13:54
kerioit *should*, i don't know if it does13:54
BluesLeeMohammadAG: it resumes the song but i cant see the media player13:54
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MohammadAGit's not supposed to open the media player13:54
kerioideally you should13:54
MohammadAG(same signal is passed by the desktop widget)13:55
kerioyou should be able to play different songs to different audio outputs13:55
BluesLeeMohammadAG: it would be enough if i could do it manually from command line and then resume with your script13:55
BluesLeeopening media player + resume, in that case i dont need playlists13:55
BluesLeekerio: i will try out media center or alternatives13:56
BluesLeehow i start the mediaplayer from command line?:-)13:57
MohammadAGhmm, sec14:00
MohammadAGdbus-send --type=method_call /com/nokia/HildonDesktop/AppMgr string:"mediaplayer"14:01
MohammadAGcould be added as a parameter I suppose14:01
MohammadAGi.e phone-control --mp-resume launch14:01
BluesLeewould be fine14:01
MohammadAGk, adding it now14:01
BluesLeei will check the combination "opening mp" + resume with script14:02
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BluesLeelooks good14:04
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lcukmeow RST38h14:06
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BluesLeeneverthless the mediaplayer doesnt seem to be intelligent enough, i have playlist of several songs, when i exit the mediaplayer and resume it doesnt show me the latest used playlist, it shows me only the latest song14:09
BluesLeeit played14:09
alteregoWorking on my own photo viewer and camera app:
MohammadAGalterego, simulate multitouch to zoom14:10
MohammadAGgod I'm an ass :P14:10
lcuk+++++ no complaints there MohammadAG :P14:10
alteregoI've decided to do the viewer, because I want to include geolocation and tagging contacts in images.14:10
BluesLeealterego: good idea with transperancy!14:10
alteregoBluesLee: those widgets also fade in and out when you're not touching the screen.14:11
MohammadAGalterego, on a more serious note, are you using fcam?14:11
lcukooooh alterego i like your button glyph14:11
lcukcan I borrow it?14:11
MohammadAGfcam's api that is14:11
alteregoMohammadAG: on an equally serious note, yes I am :P14:11
alteregolcuk: it's pure qml14:11
MohammadAGalterego, and on a less serious note, does it have xenon?14:11
lcukalterego, where is the background coming from?14:12
BluesLeei hope someone puts all the fcam stuff together in one big app14:12
lcuksemi translucent etc14:12
* MohammadAG is liking the looks of this14:12
alteregoThat's the QML code, should be easy to convert that to SVG14:13
lcukdont need svg14:13
alteregoBasically it's just a single rectangle, 10 pixel rounded corners and a gradient background14:13
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alteregoWith 60% opacity :)14:14
lcukta alterego14:16
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lcuklook at these 214:16
lcukfor why I am asking about that button :)14:16
alteregoWell, sure, you can use the button :)14:18
alteregoOh, that's nice :)14:19
alterego(had some inital problems looking at the links.14:19
alterego"SOLAR CELL" paahahaha :)14:20
lcukalterego that solar cell is the only bit that works atm :$14:20
alteregoI was thinking of putting specular shading like you have in the second link, but I couldn't make it look good enough last night. I might try again at somepoint.14:21
lcukpressing finger over it makes the screen dim :P14:21
alteregoOh, fun :)14:21
lcukthe first buttons have shading too14:21
lcukjust very subtle14:21
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alteregoYou need a proper LCD like display so you can do the little pranks as a kid, boobless and stuff when you turn it upside down :)14:22
BluesLeemediacenter looks great14:22
alteregoAt the moment the image in my viewer mockup is "flickable" for panning.14:23
BluesLeebut it doesnt interplay with my bt headset controls bh-21414:23
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alteregoGonna integrate it with my C++ app to add zoom buttom support and proper image loading etc.14:23
* lcuk wrote 55378008 and 71077345 as first things :$14:24
alteregoAnd then I'm gonna do the geolocation and contact tagging.14:24
alteregoIf I get really adventurous, I might add auto contact tagging using avatar images :x14:25
lcukalterego, pleased to see a close button on the bottom for a change14:25
alteregoI'm thinking of removing that ...14:25
lcukits in the wrong place still anyway ;) thats the accept location14:26
alteregoI might do it on its own, top left (just icon)14:27
* MohammadAG wonders how to get volume level14:27
lcukhow would you make that rectangle green?14:27
alteregoMohammadAG: dbus14:27
MohammadAGyeah, how :P14:27
lcukyou have instance, and it sets it own color inside14:27
lcukbut what if (like in my calc sense)14:27
lcukyou wanted a greeen version14:27
MohammadAGapparently it's not dbus-send --type=method_call /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer string:volume14:27
lcukwould you have to make new instance14:27
lcukerrr new definition14:27
lcukfor green_rectangle?14:27
lcukor can you assign the color of it after you create it?14:28
alteregolcuk: I'd just change the red component of the color values to geen14:28
lcukyou manually?14:28
lcukrecurse through object?14:28
lcukor set a stylesheet property?14:28
alteregoexplicitly through id14:28
lcukone recurse per object you want to tint?14:28
lcukso if i have 10 buttons (like calculator)14:29
lcukthat need to be different colors14:29
alteregoI'll be working on dynamic colours/themes in a bit14:29
alteregoYou basically just want three or four bitmaps of different colours thoug hdon't you?14:29
lcukat the moment, the color/tint of the buttons on my calc14:29
alterego(you're not using QML like me)14:29
lcukI just set the backcolor, it applies a tint14:29
lcukto the nice overlay glyph14:29
lcukno, its 1 glyph14:30
lcukthat gets colorised14:30
lcukso if the glyph is missing14:30
lcukthe UI still works14:30
alteregoAh, well, convert to greyscale, then apply an overlay with the tint14:30
lcuk(remember, for ages original liqbase just had buttons with a color and a title14:30
lcukie my crap looking buttons14:31
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jacekowskiis it skinnable?14:32
lcukalterego, so in qml14:32
MohammadAGwtf is subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 255 about :(14:32
RST38hdoes not like you14:32
lcukjacekowski, look here14:33
alteregoWell, in QML I'm going to just edit the colours programmatically through ID association14:33
alteregojacekowski: were you talking to me?14:33
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jacekowskinot in last 5 minutes14:33
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lcukalterego, if I create an instance of Rectangle14:34
alteregoJust wondering about the skinning question :P14:34
lcukand set its backcolor14:34
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lcukcan it do the overlay thing you mentioned internally14:34
keriowhy are you writing another calculator?14:35
keriowhat's wrong with python?14:35
alteregoNot sure what you mean by "internally"14:35
lcukso the mere act of creating a RoundRect (better name)   could have one with nice border color applied14:35
alteregokerio: this is lcuk you're talking about, he's all about the reinventing wheels :P14:35
kerioreinventing *ugly* wheels14:35
kerioi keed, i keed14:35
kerioit's beautiful14:35
alteregoBesides, it's not like anyone has done a calc for his platform :P14:35
lcukkerio, alterego - its not a calculator14:37
lcukits a solar panel14:37
keriooh, the calculator is just the thing that makes it possible?14:37
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lcukalterego, to explain, can you just paste a little bit of the code where you create instances of your Rectangle class please14:39
alteregolcuk: well, the "Rectangle" element in QML has a border attribute14:39
alteregoAnd a radius for rounding attribute14:39
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alteregoOkay, hang on14:40
lcukmorning VDVsx \o14:41
alteregolcuk: how is this going to help you btw? :P14:41
alteregoIf you're not using QML?14:41
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lcukalterego, its going to help explain a question I would like to ask you14:41
smharit's been a long time since claws-mail been updated for maemo, any one knows why? it is possibly the only usable mail client -for me at least14:41
VDVsxlcuk, hello, hows life ? :D14:41
lcuklife is a little fuzzy this morning.14:41
* lcuk drank lots last night14:42
lcukand tried to watch "Brazil"14:42
VDVsxlcuk, same here :P, but I'm fine, no fuzziness14:43
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fralswhats the weather like in HEL today VDVsx?14:43
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lcukhey frals14:44
VDVsxfrals, darkish, more storms coming it seems14:44
fralsVDVsx: ah, so i made the correct move going to stockholm with +30 and sun ;)14:44
fralso/ lcuk14:44
pigeonhmm, there's nothing i can do to fix a flash that doesn't work on the n900 (microb) right?14:44
RST38hheya VDVsx, what's new and exciting development-wise?14:45
MohammadAGpigeon, what do you mena14:45
VDVsxfrals, true, still hot here, but the sun is a bit shy today14:45
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VDVsxRST38h, cocoa :P14:45
pigeonMohammadAG: like... the flash plugin is closed source... and i don't have the source for the flash either...14:45
MohammadAGk, I know that14:46
user_hi. i am trying to use the application manager to upgrade maoemo on my N900 and it silently fails. is there something i am doing wrong?14:46
lcukpigeon, contact Kevin Lynch and ask him to release it.  he is sitting on his hands on an update.14:46
user_is it safe to use apt to upgrade maemo?14:48
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MohammadAGuser_, E: Handler Silently Failed?14:48
alteregolcuk: I just implemented the theming engine for you for that example :P14:48
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lcukuser_,  " to upgrade maoemo on my N900 "   You just made my tongue fall out14:48
alteregolcuk: As the colours were actually hard coded into my ToolButton class before.14:48
lcuktry saying "maoemo" out loud14:48
lcukalterego, that still does notlet me ask question14:49
RST38hVDVsx: Don't tell me you have joined the cult =)14:49
alteregolcuk: what's the question then? :P14:49
lcukcan you paste the bit where you would make 2 instances of toolbutton14:49
MohammadAGfor handler silently failed, you need a haxxored apt package14:49
lcuki want to see how you declare them14:49
MohammadAGnow I'm not sure if this is legal... cough, oops14:50
alteregolcuk: that pastie is how I declare one.14:50
VDVsxRST38h, no just kidding, never touched that thing :D14:50
* lcuk slaps you with a rotten trout 14:50
MohammadAGuser_ ^14:50
alteregoCopy and paste it, then change the "color" property to something else.14:50
RST38hVDVsx: uffff14:50
fralsuser_: long press on the update -> details14:50
user_MohammadAG: it worth trying an apt upgrade first?14:50
lcukalterego, but that does not create a Rectangle within it14:50
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MohammadAGuser_, what exactly are you trying to do?14:51
lcukso thats not the same thing14:51
alteregolcuk: no, my "ToolButton" class defines three rectangles, the attributes in that pastie are routed to either the rectangle that does a colour overlay (color), or the rectangle that does just the border overlay (border.{color,width})14:51
user_MohammadAG: i see maemo in the updates section of my application manager and clicked on it. i have never upgraded maemo on this device.14:51
MohammadAGoh, then don't use my package14:52
MohammadAGthought you were trying to update an ovi store package14:52
lcukalterego, then where in the second definition do you tell it that ToolButton is a subclass of Rectangle?14:52
user_i would simply like to upgrade maemo yet cannot.14:52
lcukbecause at the moment there is no context and I cannot understand what you are showing me14:53
lcukyou showed rectangle14:53
alteregolcuk: ToolButton is an "Item" with three child rectangles.14:53
lcukthen you showed toolbutton14:53
alteregoThat is the source/definition for "ToolButton"14:53
user_what is the future of Maemo btw? i hear a lot of speculative talk that it's about to merge into an intel project.14:54
lcukbingo alterego - and now it makes sense!14:54
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alteregolcuk:  :)14:54
lcukthanks, that was the missing linkup :P14:54
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VDVsxuser_, "about to merge" lol:
alteregolcuk: Well, you just asked me how _I_ declare instances of my class :P14:55
lcukyeah I did14:55
alteregoYou should have asked for the class definition :P14:55
lcukbut I tohught you were going to continue with Rectangle14:55
lcukso the connection was lost14:55
lcukyou had already given a definition!14:56
lcukof Rectangle14:56
alteregoNo, sorry. I didn't realize you wanted another "definition"14:56
lcukI was wondering how you used it14:56
alteregoYeah, that was a mock up :P14:56
* lcuk nods14:56
alteregoNext I need to make the transition for when you press it and release your finger change the colour and not just brightness.14:57
lcukso, in the definition of Toolbutton, is there a constructor area?  so that I could do some custom stuff14:57
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alterego(For added customizability) :)14:57
lcuklike recurse and set colors based on variation of the single "color" property to all the member branches of ToolButton14:58
alteregolcuk: qml is declarative, so I'm not sure what you mean "Constructor stuff"14:58
alteregoYou shouldn't need to14:58
lcukso there is no active code viable, its entirely pre determined?14:58
alteregoThat example you said wasn't what you were looking for.14:58
lcuknever say never.. :P14:58
alteregoNo, hang on.14:58
lcukright, you have OnPressed:  handler14:59
lcukis there an OnCreate:14:59
lcukor something14:59
alteregoYeah, ignore all that ;)14:59
lcukand so I could run some JS or something14:59
alteregolcuk: there is, I'm not sure you need it14:59
alteregolcuk: yeah there is, don't know off hand, hang on14:59
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alteregoOn that page somewhere :P15:00
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lcukyeah, I see15:00
lcukI might want to set the border color to the inverse of the back color (for instance)15:01
lcukwithout having to manually assign 2 different properties at design time15:01
lcukso would just use some javascript to do flipping in the OnCreate15:01
alteregoThat creates three buttons, red, green and blue15:01
alterego(in a row)15:02
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alteregoNot sure what you want the javascript init stuff for, you just declare your interface like that.15:02
alteregoOnce you've done all your buttons in the grid, then it's all done right?15:02
lcukso, like I said15:02
lcukif I wanted the bordercolor of a toolbutton to be the Complement color15:03
alteregoYou can access these properties from C++ if that's what you mean.15:03
lcukie, inverse of15:03
lcukthe backcolor15:03
alteregoYou can dyncamilly change them in C++15:03
alteregoOh, okay.15:03
lcukthis is qml though?15:03
alteregoQML objects are accessible directly in C++ as QObjects15:03
alteregoQDeclarativeItem objects to be exact I think ..15:03
lcukyes but that implies that a c++ app started it15:03
lcukwhat if I just ran the qml itself15:04
lcukas data15:04
alteregoYeah, you'd need to rely on JavaScript15:04
* lcuk nods15:04
lcukcan I create new widgets stored as a proper binary .so file?15:05
alteregoYou can write widgets in C++ for QML yeah :)15:05
lcukso that sometimes where needed I can have Toolbutton replaced by specific fully compiled c++ ToolButton15:05
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alteregoYeah, I'm doing something similar with my GPS app, porting these custom widgets to QML:
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lcukthat is a lovely layout btw :)15:07
user_ahah to upgrade maemo you need Windows? i have five computer, none of them with this OS..15:07
alteregolcuk: in landscape:
infobotmethinks flashing is
lcukalthough the alignment on the bottom indicator values needs to be sorted15:07
lcukthe captions and the data are not lined up15:08
user_SpeedEvil: cheers..15:08
alteregolcuk: you know, I hadn't noticed the vertical alignment is screwed :/15:08
BluesLeeMohammadAG: can you add an option to your script to "kill" the mediaplayer via a dbus command?15:09
alteregoI guess it's default top aligned and not v centered.15:09
alteregoI'll have to fix that.15:09
MohammadAGkilling the mediaplayer isn't a smart move15:09
MohammadAGkilling the GUI keeps the backend running15:09
alteregoYou can stop it using dbus though :)15:09
BluesLeei mean that15:09
MohammadAGtrue, but it still is running15:09
BluesLeetherefore i wrote "kill"15:10
alteregoIt's always running15:10
BluesLeeclean kill15:10
alteregoWell, mafw stops after idle I thought ..15:10
MohammadAGkill != clean kill :)15:10
alteregoWhich stop will cause15:10
SpeedEvilalterego: you sure that's right - vdop/hdop values look very high15:10
BluesLeei think i am fine with the default mp, mediabox doesnt support my bt headset control buttons, so ...15:11
alteregoSpeedEvil: I was inside? :)15:11
SpeedEvilk - just checking15:11
BluesLeealterego: you mean i should stop it and then kill the gui?15:11
alteregoBluesLee: well, yes that would work15:11
BluesLeethis dbus stuff is very interesting15:12
AngelionBluesLee what is gui ?15:12
BluesLeeAngelion: default mediaplayer15:13
* SpeedEvil stabs maemo dbus docs.15:13
BluesLeei bet there is dbus command to check if bluetooth is turned on or not15:15
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BluesLeeis there a more complete doc than
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SpeedEvilMany things you can't do with dbus15:21
SpeedEvilAs I understand it, the above is a user contributed doc.15:21
alteregoLike easily do anything?15:21
alteregolcuk: I'm gonna try and compress it all into two rectangles, I've got a feeling QML will apply the unform color to a gradient with alpha elements on the colours.15:22
alteregoSo I can get rid of the colour underlay15:22
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alteregoThough, I'm replacing it with another rectangle for a background shadow.15:24
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SpeedEvilalterego: Don't forget the live overlay of the sky on that. :) (sun/moon/venus/...)15:43
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SpeedEvilIs there such a thing as a FTP sharing plugin that can upload directly to your FTP site without going through any third party?15:47
fluxI would like to have a generic sharing plugin, that simply runs file-to-be-shared15:49
SpeedEvilI was just thinking about typing that out.15:50
fluxshould be dead-easy to customize into doing anything.. although I suppose an ftp/sftp/http push uploader wouldn't be bad either.15:50
SpeedEvilI want for example a drawing app. I have a lot of postit notes.15:50
SpeedEvilI want to be able to scribble on a postit note, take a picture, upload it, in about a couple of button pushes to get to a resized to 640*480 uploaded postit on mywebsite/postit.jpg15:51
ieatlinti recently looked at the api for that... it's not difficult15:52
SpeedEvilGo for it! I would love you forever. Well - quite like you for at least 12 minutes.15:53
alteregoSpeedEvil: I was going to do luner phases and sun/moon position :P15:53
SpeedEvilalterego: :)15:54
SpeedEvil - completely unrelated to anything.15:54
ieatlintuh, i should probably actually go to bed rather than write code15:55
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JaffaAf'noon, all16:02
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* lcuk \016:13
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RST38hHmm...lcuk iz zero-terminated16:15
RST38hHe must be a string. A C string.16:15
MohammadAGNokia-N900:~# update-sudoers16:20
MohammadAGNokia-N900:~# cat /etc/sudoers16:20
MohammadAGcat: can't open '/etc/sudoers': No such file or directory16:20
MohammadAGmust've broken something16:20
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alteregoI'd say ..16:22
* MohammadAG reboots16:23
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DocScrutinizerhis last words16:52
DocScrutinizerno good idea to reboot when /etc/sudoers is missing16:52
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zashoh shit16:54
crashanddiewell, I don't really care about sudoers, it's the fact other crap may have gone missing :P16:54
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KageSenshiugh .. i think i gotta reflash my n900 again .. "Internal error.Application 'Contacts' closed" every few seconds .. >.<17:25
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MohammadAGor reboot17:27
KageSenshiMohammadAG, already tried that17:27
KageSenshisuddenly happens a few hours ago .. and i didnt install anything since yesterday ..17:28
KageSenshinot quite sure what i did17:28
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: did you try testing the sip call again?17:45
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c3lI just found maemo when I was looking for a new phone, and I have to admit that I came when I saw the N900 and maemo, but what im wondering now is if the N900 will continue to be The device for maemo for some time in the future, or is it worth waiting some time for a newer and improved device? sorry if this quiestion is a bit malplaced, but I didnt know where to go :)17:53
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ShadowJKNobody knows when the next device is arriving17:54
ShadowJKand then it'll be called MeeGo17:54
SpeedEvilThere will neverr be a new maemo device.17:54
SpeedEvilI love my n900.17:54
MohammadAGI'd buy another N90017:55
woodong50__n900 is wonderful more than iphone?17:55
SpeedEvilFor some, yes.17:55
MohammadAGif you want rock band on a 600MHz device, get an iPhone17:55
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trumeeif you want to make sip calls get an android not N900.17:56
MohammadAGhmm, weird, I make sip calls on the N90017:57
MohammadAGtried gizmo5 and skype17:57
trumeeMohammadAG: sip calls are quite choppy here. Can gizmo5 integrate well in N900?17:58
barisioneis there a proper way to ask for a reboot after installing a package?17:58
MohammadAGbarisione, yes17:59
DocScrutinizersudo reboot18:00
MohammadAGXB-Maemo-Flags: reboot18:00
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barisioneDocScrutinizer: not what people want :)18:00
barisioneMohammadAG: cool, thanks18:00
MohammadAGin debian/control18:00
MohammadAG_BUT_ I doubt fapman checks for it18:00
MohammadAGapt-get doesn't18:00
GAN900ShadowJK, actually, it wont be.18:01
GAN900ShadowJK, thank goodness.18:01
DocScrutinizertrumee: no, didn't do further tests18:01
ShadowJKGAN900, they changed their mind on calling maemo6 meego?18:01
trumeeDocScrutinizer: ok, whenever you have time. i will appreciate your feedback.18:02
GAN900ShadowJK, apparently.18:02
GAN900ShadowJK, although nobody's said what they're actually going to call it.18:02
barisioneMohammadAG: “Specifying this flag will reboot the device cleanly after the package has been installed. Also, all applications will be closed before installation and a suggestion is given to the user to make a backup.” :(18:03
barisioneI just want a reboot so that the policy configuration can be reloaded :(18:03
barisionewell, I will have to implement it by myself18:03
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DocScrutinizerbarisione: call rebot in psotinstall script18:14
barisioneI cannot reboot without warning the user18:14
DocScrutinizerbarisione: call reboot in postinstall script18:14
tobis87Hi! I had a hell of a time reflashing my n900, I should note for the future to not mess around with kernel modules that much.18:14
tobis87Anyway am I the only one who doesn't like the default touchscreen directions? I mean, is it not possible to invert the direction the screen moves, like for a mousewheel?18:14
DocScrutinizerfor warning the user there are dbus notifications18:14
DocScrutinizersomething like dialogyesno18:16
DocScrutinizerbut that's probably a PITA to use over dbus from a script18:16
DocScrutinizerzenity is easy, but alas no default pkg18:17
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DocScrutinizerbarisione: but whatever, why are you unhappy with the way XB-Maemo-Flags:reboot is supposed to work? It sounds rather sane18:22
tobis87If this would be an option or a varible inside a hildon library, would this affect all programs globally? Or how is this set? I dumped the hildon settings with gcontool-2 and looked inside xorg.conf.18:22
barisioneDocScrutinizer: it seems to be something used for system updates and asks for a backup, et.c18:23
barisioneI just need to tell the user that rebooting is a good idea (or ringtoned will work, but the audio will freeze for a couple of seconds)18:24
DocScrutinizerso suggesting a backup is a sensible thing. Why do you think it interferes with what you plan to do?18:24
tobis87I have no idea, why did they choose to do it this way? I also miss the possibility to use the sidebar inside the file dialog to scroll up and down quicker.18:25
DocScrutinizertelling user about something is easily established by calling dbus notifier18:25
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DocScrutinizer dbus-send --type=method_call \18:26
DocScrutinizer   --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications \18:26
DocScrutinizer   org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteInfoprint \18:26
DocScrutinizer   string:"restarting phone application"18:26
DocScrutinizer killall -9 rtcom-call-ui18:26
DocScrutinizer(form postinstall)18:27
MohammadAGhow do I say in sh lang18:27
MohammadAGif osso-xterm is running, wait18:28
MohammadAGwhen osso-xterm exits, do18:28
c3lokay no one knows when a new maemo (meego?) device is comeing, but are any under development or planned? maybe that knind of information isnt available for the general public18:29
MohammadAGwe = general public :)18:29
barisioneDocScrutinizer: thanks18:29
ShadowJKI don't think even the people at inten/nokia working on MeeGo know when next device comes18:30
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barisionec3l: for nokia I can surely tell that it's not their policy to tell it in advance unless is ready18:30
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: there's wait and ps and killall18:30
barisione*tell you18:30
c3lMohammadAG: yeah ;) but I don't know what the general public knows, ive been looking around but i havent found anything, so Im wondering if Im missed something, or maybe no news have been released regarding new devices18:31
SpeedEvilNo news.18:31
SpeedEvilNo news of any upcoming noia device.18:31
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c3lbarisione: oh, thanks. I've never used nokia so I dont know how they do it, yet ;)18:31
MohammadAGLies, there's the N8 :P18:31
ShadowJKN8 is symbian though18:32
c3lso I guess its safe to go for the N900 then, happily it has become alot cheeper since release =)18:32
MohammadAGhe didn't specify device type18:32
c3lI did; maemo :)18:32
c3lor meego, is that what the next version will be called, or is it something different?18:33
MohammadAGI'm just being an ass :P18:33
ShadowJKpersonally my own guess is "paper release" of a new device for christmas, but I have nothing to base that on :)18:33
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: wait `pidof osso-xterm`; <anything>18:34
ShadowJKMeeGo is Maemo and Moblin merged, Maemo6 is probably a hybrid of Maemo and MeeGo..18:34
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c3lthat means the device is at least, what.. a year into the future. I cant wait that long to get rid of my iphone :=18:35
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: or maybe: while killall osso-xterm; do sleep 1; done # if you want to actively terminate it18:35
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: a hybrid of maemo and a hybrid then18:37
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ShadowJKc3l, what kind of background do you have? Why is Maemo looking appealing to you?18:38
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GAN900November/December would be my guess for the planned date.18:41
GAN900tobis87, which way is that, exactly?18:41
GAN900tobis87, and just flick quickly to scroll quickly.18:41
c3lShadowJK: its debian based (and behaves like linux, opposed to the other linux based phone OS's like android), its basically a computer in my pocket, just what  Ive been looking for :)18:42
ShadowJKquickly and repeatedly seems to speed it up alot18:42
ShadowJKah :)18:42
zashc3l: how much does that change with meego?18:43
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: admittedly scrolling long lists from one end to the other can get annoying18:43
GAN900DocScrutinizer, it's pretty good about going quickly if you flick quickly.18:44
ShadowJKwell MeeGo is a new distro not based on debian anymore, but it's "standard linux" type still, not linux_kernel+newstuff like android18:44
c3lzash: I dont know whats the difference is between maemo and meego.. the reason why Im asking if there'll be a new device out soone superceding the n900 id rather wait some time and get the lates - more powerful and developed  device18:44
DocScrutinizerGAN900: tobis87: I don't get the idea of "to invert the direction the screen moves"18:44
ShadowJKalso flick more before it starts slowing down, and it just goes faster and faster18:44
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c3lShadowJK: isnt that the most common reason for why people use maemo? or are there alot "nongeeky" users? ;)18:46
DocScrutinizertobis87: are you referring to pragma "drag paper" vs pragma "drag window across fixed papaer"18:46
GAN900DocScrutinizer, nor I.18:46
ShadowJKc31: yes there are alot of nongeeky users too18:46
tobis87I mean if I swipe the screen with my finger down, the screen moves up.18:46
tobis87I mean the content of the screen18:46
tobis87moves up18:46
GAN900tobis87, think for it like pulling a piece of paper around.18:46
BCMMc3l: maemo and another distro called moblin are merging, and the resulting project is called meego18:46
luke-jrc3l: uhhh18:47
luke-jrc3l: learn how Nokia does "it" before you buy anything18:47
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BCMMc3l: it will still be a proper linux distro with glibc and xorg18:47
BCMMiirc it will use rpm instead of deb18:48
luke-jrc3l: Maemo/MeeGo are not phone OS at all. They are Linux-derived, but not Linux-compatible nor GNU, and only "Debian-based" in that Maemo used .deb packages (MeeGo uses RPM)18:48
DocScrutinizertobis87: yes, there are both concepts. Anyway the "move the paper" concept seems much more common nowadays18:48
luke-jrc3l: N900 is a multifunction device, but not so great if you want a pocket computer18:48
tobis87 GAN900: Yes, but I don't like it. It is irritating. As the wheel of a mouse works the other way. In the last time I also see myself trying to use gls on my pc.18:48
BCMMluke-jr: what do you mean by "not Linux-compatible"?18:49
luke-jrBCMM: you can't run Maemo userland with a normal Linux kernel18:49
GAN900tobis87, you'll get used to it.18:49
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BCMMluke-jr: oh, why not?18:49
luke-jrBCMM: it requires non-standard kernel hacks18:49
Ford_PrefectWhat hacks?18:49
ShadowJKin MeeGo the policy is to have drivers upstreamed :)18:50
BCMMluke-jr: i mean obviously, the phone app and so on require special hardware, but do you mean to say that the maemo version of xchat wouldn't compile unmodified on any other ARM-based linux distro?18:50
luke-jryeah, MeeGo is a big step forward, except using RPM18:50
BCMM(for example)18:50
luke-jrBCMM: it wouldn't, but that wasn't my point18:50
BCMMwell what was your point?18:51
luke-jrBCMM: that you can't just download Linux and run Maemo with it18:51
c3lluke-jr: what should I go for if I want a pocket computer, Id like to be able to make calls with it too18:51
BCMMluke-jr: also, what did you mean by "not gnu"?18:51
BCMMit's has a normal glibc...18:51
luke-jrBCMM: that when Nokia abandons N900, you're stuck with the last kernel they released18:51
luke-jrBCMM: no, it doesn't.18:51
* luke-jr double-checks18:52
GAN900luke-jr, maybe not with the MeeGo-on-N900 efforts.18:52
BCMMluke-jr: why will i be stuck with the last kernel nokia releases?18:52
BCMMluke-jr: isn't there already an alternative kernel binary (compiled with different options) in extras?18:53
luke-jrGAN900: for now18:53
Ford_Prefectluke-jr: it does have glibc, and there are some binary blob drivers for the graphics and gsm modem (and wireless and battery management as I understand from the conversation yesterday)18:53
ShadowJKit's the same kernel version though18:53
luke-jrBCMM: different options is the same version18:53
tobis87GAN900: I have to, but It would still be nice if there is workaround for it.18:53
luke-jrBCMM: glibc is just one small part of GNU18:53
BCMMluke-jr: loads of linux distros have slightly modified kernels18:53
luke-jrBCMM: and not user-noticable18:53
luke-jrBCMM: this isn't slightly modified18:53
luke-jrBCMM: and most normal Linux distros work with unmodified ones18:54
BCMMluke-jr: oh, you mean not coming with teh full set of coreutils by default18:54
Ford_Prefectluke-jr: helps if you have actual details on what is user-noticeable18:54
BCMMbut there is a package for them...18:54
luke-jrFord_Prefect: Maemo uses BusyBox18:54
luke-jrthe key point is that it is not a pocket computer18:54
c3lluke-jr: what did you mena by n900 not being a good choise for a pocket computer?18:54
Ford_Prefectluke-jr: just about every embedded device out there does. Nothing stops you from installing coreutils and other things you want.18:54
luke-jrif that's what someone wants, they will most likely be disappointed18:54
BCMMluke-jr: you seem to be saying that a few propriatary hardware drivers make it not count as a linux kernel18:54
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luke-jrc3l: the keyboard is terrible, for one18:55
BCMMluke-jr: what changes have been made to the kernel, other than adding drivers?18:55
luke-jrBCMM: proprietary drivers are illegal, and not part of N900's kernel18:55
luke-jrBCMM: non-standard userland APIs required by Maemo are added18:55
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luke-jrthat will NEVER be supported in mainline18:55
BCMMit's not like there has been major messing-around with core bits of the kernel like on Android18:55
luke-jrBCMM: with Maemo, there has been18:55
BCMMluke-jr: APIs added to the kernel?18:55
luke-jrthat's one problem to be fixed with MeeGo18:56
c3lluke-jr: it is?:( ive read its nice, havent gotten a cahnce to try it out though, will do that as soon as possible. but are there any better alternatives for a pocket computer that can act as a phone?18:56
Ford_Prefectc3l: depends on what you mean by pocket computer18:56
luke-jrc3l: not that I've experienced personally18:56
luke-jrc3l: N810 was slightly better, but it doesn't have the cellular hw18:57
tobis87DocScrutinizer: The use of html emails is also more common nowadays, but it is still messed up.18:57
luke-jrC760 had an awesome kb, but again no cell hw, and ancient18:57
luke-jrIS01 might be interesting, but I haven't seen it yet18:57
c3lFord_Prefect: basically a device that fits in my pocket and is more or less as free as my desktop (though probably limited due to hw)18:58
luke-jrFord_Prefect: by pocket computer, I mean something as usable as a laptop18:58
luke-jrFord_Prefect: eg, I can write Perl, do work, etc, with it18:58
luke-jrwithout a ton of pain18:58
BCMMthe n900 does those18:59
luke-jrfor its time, C760 was perfect for that18:59
luke-jrBCMM: uh, no :p18:59
BCMMwell, it has perl, and it has vim18:59
ShadowJKperl on n900 keyboard might be cumbersome :)18:59
BCMMso you can write perl on it18:59
Ford_Prefectluke-jr: you can do all that on the N900. I can't imagine *why* you'd want to do that, but you can.18:59
luke-jrBCMM: even if the software was all sorted out, the keyboard sucks too much for any real coding18:59
BCMMmeh, i happily write LaTeX on the n900 keyboard18:59
DocScrutinizertobis87: open up an arbitrary pdf viewer on your desktop linux or whatever OS. Dragging the paper around with mouse LMB click&hold is "move paper" pragma. What you refer to - also scrollwheel) is the scrollbar at side of a window. This isn't supported by clicking&dragging on arbitrary position of the window, no matter if done by mosue ot via touchscreen19:00
Ford_PrefectIf you can work for extended periods on that small keyboard, hat's off to you19:00
BCMManyway, i still want to know why you think it isn't "linux-compatible"19:00
Ford_PrefectAnd by small I even mean the N81019:00
c3lso basically the kb is what limits the n900?19:00
BCMMhaving busybox utilities by default isn't a huge issue, imho19:00
luke-jrc3l: that, and proprietary software19:00
BCMMthey are posix-compatible, and you can still install GNU coreutils if you require the gnu extensions19:00
* Ford_Prefect shakes head and goes back to hacking19:00
luke-jrc3l: I'm working on a Gentoo port for N810 and N90019:00
BCMMlikewise, you can install bash if you don't like BB's sh implementation19:00
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luke-jrBCMM: not really. if you set bash as your default shell, it screws everything up19:01
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BCMMluke-jr: what does it screw up?19:01
luke-jrBCMM: Maemo scripts I guess19:01
luke-jrfrom what i hear it won't boot19:01
BCMManyway, in what sense is it not linux?19:02
c3lluke-jr: you will never get away from proprietary software when its a os designed and maintained by a company like nokia, and especially when its desiigner for some specific hw, and also the cellular part needs proprietary software due to patents, or am I wrong?19:02
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luke-jrc3l: all the more reason not to get Nokia I guess. but they have been getting better19:03
DocScrutinizerc3l: for all that matters to me, it's the kbd and the size of screen (and missing buttons for e.g opening menus, the missing 3button mouse, etc) that "limits" the N900 use as a normal netbook class PC19:03
luke-jrc3l: the cellular part is required by law to run on an independent CPU, so just firmware from the computer-side19:03
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: that's incorrect19:03
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: in the US, at least19:04
luke-jror that's my understanding anyway19:04
c3lDocScrutinizer: ah I see, thanks. do you know if theres any better alternative to the n900?19:04
DocScrutinizerI honestly doubt there's a law that says "linux mustn't run on same processor as parts of the GSM stack"19:04
psycho_oreosapart from the fact that luke-jr can't suggest any other pocket-pc with phone capability other than scrutinising n900 for small keyboard and proprietary drivers, n900 is still the only choice for a decent linux based phone with almost a full blown linux distro shoved in it19:05
tobis87DocScrutinizer: Ah, I see. Maybe this is becaue I always click&hold the mousewheel, to move inside firefox and adobe reader.19:05
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: no, the law is that the cellular part must be approved by the FCC as a whole19:05
DocScrutinizerc3l: not for me19:05
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: all software changes need FCC approval19:05
luke-jrso a system that is user-modifiable cannot be on the modem19:05
johnsu01luke-jr: don't think that's true, see Software Freedom Law Center paper on atheros and free wifi drivers19:05
luke-jrjohnsu01: Wifi isn't GSM19:06
johnsu01warrants are the same19:06
luke-jrWiFi is non-licensed spectrum19:06
johnsu01FCC historically doesn't like user controllable soft radio19:06
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: again that's incorrect19:06
luke-jrGSM is for the most part licensed19:06
johnsu01the wifi concern is that users can interfere with other licensed spectrum19:06
johnsu01if they can modify the radio19:06
Ford_Prefectluke-jr: they're both regulated19:07
johnsu01so yes, it is the same warrant19:07
luke-jrFord_Prefect: but differently19:07
psycho_oreosc3l, the other bit of downside you might find with n900 is its poor battery performance, you won't get many idle days on n900 without tweaking your n900 to using very minimal amount of processes, etc19:07
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: c3l, the other bit of downside you might find with n900 is its poor battery performance, you won't get many standby days on n900 without tweaking your n900 to using very minimal amount of processes, etc19:07
c3lcool bot19:08
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: FCC approval doesn't mean it's completely locking out the user from messing with it, neither does it mean the system as a whole is forbidden to be changed19:08
luke-jrpsycho_oreos: that's relative. I think N900 lasts quite a while idle.19:08
luke-jrso long as R&D mode is disabled19:08
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psycho_oreosluke-jr, yes depends on how you use it, leaving it on whilst on 3G would last less than a day, using bluetooth for around 10 hours would severely drain the battery, etc19:08
c3lpsycho_oreos: one cant expect more than one day on battery from the smartphones, and im used to charging my iphone each night, ill survive :) thanks for the heads up'19:08
Kegetysmine does ~3 days while on 3G19:09
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: a clean maemo install ootb will last several days on GSM standby, exactly like advertised by Nokia19:09
ShadowJKthere was a guy on tmo that claimed his N900 only lasts 10 hours idle. Turned out his idea of "idle"included xchat,msn,gtalk,jabber,skype and facebook19:09
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luke-jrIIRC I got ~20 hours on 3G19:09
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psycho_oreosc3l, no worries19:09
luke-jrShadowJK: what good is an offline device?19:10
johnsu01what in the world are you guys doing to get that long on 3G19:10
ShadowJKWith just xchat on 2g I once got only 6 hours when I was out at sea on the edge of signal coverage :)19:10
luke-jrjohnsu01: disable R&D19:10
ShadowJKrd is disabled by default isn't it?19:10
luke-jrthere's almost no 2G here19:10
luke-jrand spotty 3G19:11
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, problem is if one were to use many applets, and what not it'll bog down the usage :) and I really don't understand why is n900 the only device equipped with a smaller batter compared to its predecessors? maybe nokia started caring about weight and/or style?19:11
johnsu01I don't think I have R&D on...19:11
DocScrutinizernobody has, usually19:11
luke-jrI did for weeks19:11
DocScrutinizerwhy the heck should you?19:11
luke-jrthen I turned it off and was very happy19:11
psycho_oreoseasiest way to tell if you have R&D mode on is by the colouring of the keypads19:11
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johnsu01I haven't run it out all the way but I know I get < 10 hours of 3g19:12
johnsu01with ssh, web and email19:12
ShadowJKwhat goes on in your ssh?19:12
johnsu01mostly irc19:13
ShadowJKthat eats alot :)19:13
ShadowJKwell, not if channels are idle19:13
c3ldoes ncurses based programs run well on the n900? for example running irssi through ssh?19:14
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: even then19:15
ShadowJKyeah that's fine19:15
johnsu01c3l: I ported nethack okay and that uses curses19:15
ShadowJKthe "x-terminal" on n900 uses same widget as gnome-terminal, i think19:15
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: all the joins/quits and pings and whatnot still make it a hog, esp on 3G19:16
ShadowJKwell ssh to another machine running irssi cuts down on some of it19:16
ShadowJKbut you still get a wakeup whenever someone says something, join/part and irssi updating statusline19:17
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DocScrutinizerc3l: short story: if you feel comfortable witj linux, and you want a new better phone/palmtop-PC than iPhone, then there's no alternative to N900. You'll love it19:17
c3lDocScrutinizer: :D thanks19:18
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LjLi'll love (and buy) the N900 when i can get a really open source OS that works well on it :P19:18
DocScrutinizerc3l: if you want 300.000 apps for 99ct from appstore, then N900 isn't hte phone for you. Same if you basically need an organizer19:18
DocScrutinizerLjL: ok, cya next live then19:19
muellisoftLjL: you should be able to run anthing Linux based, really. IIRC, all the drivers are freely avaible. The wireless does have a free replacement.19:20
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: yup :-S19:20
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: coffee--19:20
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crashanddieMuelli: LOL19:20
ShadowJKi think the wlan drivers are opensource?19:21
LjLMuelli: well, there's the "that works well" part to be considered though. there aren't many linux-based OS's that are *made* to work well on a cellphone like that. the two open-source ones i know of are Android and Meego, and both are available for the N900 but neither really works well (yet, anyway) as far as i heard.19:21
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crashanddieMuelli: try talking to the modem for a change...19:22
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MuelliLjL: well. There the pimped Debian which was used on the Freerunner, too.19:22
DocScrutinizerLjL: but - as the oss property of some few bits of the OS doesn't make any bit of a difference to endusers and even app developers - I gather you are core OS developer / kernel hacker and as such you most probably will brew your own FOSS-100 OS for N90019:22
Muellicrashanddie: hm? Phonet is in Linux for ages now. And Ofono as a high level API exists.19:22
Muelliand works as far as I've seen.19:23
crashanddieoh, you've seen it working on the n900, have you now?19:23
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: why? because I can't turn it off without rebooting19:23
barisionewhat is the URL to see the status of the packages being built by the autobuilder?19:23
barisioneI keep forgetting and not bookmarking it...19:23
Muellibarisione: hey :-)19:24
luke-jrc3l: N900 is great if you want a low-end multifunction device19:24
barisioneMuelli: hi :)19:24
luke-jrMuelli: no, the drivers are not all freely available.19:24
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: eh?19:24
barisioneMuelli: I always end up meeting you wherever I go, brazil, the hague or irc :P19:24
c3lluke-jr: I guess thats what ill go for :)19:24
Muellibarisione: hrhr... Well. At something to look forward to ;-)19:24
Muelliluke-jr: which are not?19:24
saltsa_how I use the flasher program in Ubuntu 64bit?19:25
luke-jrMuelli: battery charger and 3D acceleration at least19:25
saltsa_bash: /usr/bin/flasher-3.5: No such file or directory19:25
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saltsa_I'm getting that error message19:25
luke-jrc3l: wish I could suggest something usable as a handheld computer, but nobody makes them anymore ☹19:25
luke-jrsaltsa_: you don't.19:25
luke-jrsaltsa_: you need a 32-bit OS19:26
luke-jrFlasher 3.0 had a 64-bit version, but nobody can legally share it with you19:26
Muellibarisione: are you looking for smth like that: ?19:26
c3lwait now, is the screen good? i heard its ..i dont know the english word, but not glass, right? is it still ok?19:26
LjLDocScrutinizer: i wouldn't make a big deal of the "few bits of the OS" if those were just some hardware drivers, but apparently about half of Maemo is not open-source, and while i'm not really a kernel hacker, i am interested in doing things which may just require source code access, such as playing with the sensors, radio, etc. and then for me there's also the "supporting open source" factor.19:27
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barisioneMuelli: nope, another page, but the autobuilder succeeded so I guess I don't need that anymore :)19:27
Muelliluke-jr: well. I don't know what "battery charger" is supposed to mean but not having 3D is not a real loss ;-) And I guess LjL wouldn't mind either ;-)19:27
DocScrutinizerLjL: that's nonsense. All of that is open19:27
LjLDocScrutinizer: uh, Stskeeps seemed to say otherwise, and has a chart detailing it.19:28
DocScrutinizerLjL: nope, he didn't19:28
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DocScrutinizerthe kernel is *completely* open. What's closed are things like dialer-ui, calendar, addressbook-database etc19:29
luke-jrMuelli: battery charger is obvious19:29
StskeepsLjL: maemo is a lost game, meego is using only very few blobs for hw support19:29
Muelliluke-jr: probably not. Or do I need to have the system booted in order to charge the battery?19:29
luke-jrc3l: the screen is glass as far as I can tell19:29
luke-jrMuelli: yes19:29
DocScrutinizerFMradio app is open source community driven python app19:30
luke-jror rather, the system needs to be running the battery charger daemon19:30
luke-jrnot necessarily fully booted19:30
Muelliluke-jr: so you are saying that if I turn my N900 off and plug the charger in, it won't charge the battery?19:30
luke-jrMuelli: it will boot and start the charger app19:31
LjLDocScrutinizer: well those are still part of Maemo aren't they. the kernel must be open, it's Linux.19:31
DocScrutinizernonsense, the touchpanel of course is NOT 'glass'19:31
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: what is it? feels like glass to me19:31
StskeepsMuelli: its called ACTDEAD mode19:31
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StskeepsMuelli: minimal system is booted and bme too19:31
DocScrutinizerdunno, polyacetate, polycarbonate? who knows19:31
Stskeepsthe moment a power source is in usnb, n900 starts19:32
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Muelliokay. didn't know that. thanks Stskeeps and luke-jr.19:32
trip0i don't see an error in that log, but it says it failed?19:32
barisioneMuelli, luke-jr: AFAIR the system can charge even if not booted, when it gets enough battery for a partial boot it partially boots19:32
luke-jrMuelli: anyhow, it would suck not being able to charge battery :P19:32
DocScrutinizerLjL: that's like claiming buntkuh is not FOSS as it has acrobat reader19:32
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barisione \o/ now I can start the week-end :)19:33
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: calling bme an 'app' is... err...19:34
DocScrutinizerbarisione: enjoy, and many thanks :-D19:35
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DocScrutinizerMuelli: starting charger is easy though. Even without closed blob called bme :-D19:36
DocScrutinizerI published a 5 liner shellscript to establish that19:36
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: the 5 liner doesn't ever finish19:37
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DocScrutinizerhow's keeping battery charged gonna be a job that ever finishes?19:37
DocScrutinizerdoes bme ever finish?19:38
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DocScrutinizermaybe bme signals cell=100% according to his twisted notion19:39
kerioexternal charger + fake battery arrived19:39
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: the script has a finished state19:39
keriothe led is broken so i don't know when the battery has finished charging19:39
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kerioalso the battery monitor is probably f'ed up because of the frequent battery switch19:39
kerioyay for me19:39
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: yes it has, and if you don't understand what it does you honestly seriously shouldn't use it19:39
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: at some point BME also stops charging and the battery drops19:39
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: I don't have a choice, now do I?19:40
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: bme also 'never finishes' if you keep screen always on19:40
DocScrutinizerjust like does my script19:40
c3lluke-jr: if its glass, how does the pen work? or are there no pen, maybe Ive been misinformed19:41
luke-jrc3l: the same way your fingers work?19:41
DocScrutinizerc3l: it is NOT glass19:41
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DocScrutinizerc3l: virtually no touchscreen ever is made of glass19:41
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: if it's not glass, what is it?19:41
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: do you read backscroll please?19:42
luke-jrI'm not surprised it isn't glass, but glass is the only way i can describe how it feels19:42
luke-jrI asked, but I didn't see a reply19:42
DocScrutinizer[2010-08-14 18:31:58] <DocScrutinizer> dunno, polyacetate, polycarbonate? who knows19:42
luke-jroh, polycarbonate is a material?19:42
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DocScrutinizeryes, polycarbonate is a material. Not sure about the polyacetate though19:44
DocScrutinizermost likely it's PVC19:44
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kerioDocScrutinizer: how do i tell my n900 that i'm on another battery?19:46
DocScrutinizerno need to19:46
DocScrutinizerbq27200 will reset on battery removal19:46
keriothe battery indicator is f'ed up19:46
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DocScrutinizerwhich indicator, in which way?19:47
keriothe status area battery indicator19:47
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keriowent up for a bit19:47
c3lluke-jr: is the pen made of human tissue? :) just plastic wont work. I think it has to be a bit conductive as the water in a finger, or sausage. but now DocScrutinizer says its not glass,  who to trust? ;)19:47
DocScrutinizerbah, that one is a guestimate with a good amount of random anyway19:47
keriohow do i measure the battery then?19:48
c3lDocScrutinizer: the iphone for instance is glass19:48
DocScrutinizer~tell c3l about DocScrutinizer5119:48
DocScrutinizer~tell c3l about DocScrutinizer19:48
DocScrutinizerc3l: ^^19:48
infobothmm... docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko19:48
kerioyay openmoko19:48
kerio(btw, slashdot claims that there was the first gsm call with an open baseband)19:49
kerio(is that true?)19:49
DocScrutinizerc3l: for GTA03 development we did extensive tests on iPhone capacitive touchpanel. Believe me it's NOT glass19:49
keriothe back of the iphone4 is glass19:50
c3lreally? :O Ive seen it break just like glass, what is the iphone screen made of then? some superspecial type of plastic?19:50
ShapeshifterWhat's new?19:50
DocScrutinizerpolyacrylate or something like that19:50
DocScrutinizerwe broke several :-P19:51
DocScrutinizersteelball drop test :-D19:51
c3lwoot :D19:51
kerioDocScrutinizer: was it satisfying?19:52
c3lfor what company do you work?19:52
DocScrutinizerour touchpanel had to be at least as rigid as the iPhone's :-)19:52
DocScrutinizerunemployed atm19:52
keriohe drops steel balls on iphones for fun19:52
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c3la real apple hater :)19:53
* DocScrutinizer drops steelballs on kerio and laughs sadistically19:53
kerioouch! my balls19:53
DocScrutinizerc3l: didn't infobot toss you my 'vcard' ?19:55
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kerioDocScrutinizer: really, how am i supposed to monitor my battery?19:55
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DocScrutinizeror simply not at all19:55
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kerioDocScrutinizer: huh19:55
keriojust... work until it shuts down?19:56
DocScrutinizerbatterygraph et al are all nonsense as I get it19:56
IcanCUdoes the n900 have the same version of free ovi maps as s60 devices?19:56
kerioIcanCU: way behind19:56
IcanCUah ok19:56
keriono voice navigation19:56
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kerioalways needs a data connection for everything19:56
c3lDocScrutinizer: it did, but I thought openmoko is more kind of a project than a company, that might not be the case19:56
DocScrutinizerkerio: it *will* warn you some 30min before it shuts down19:56
DocScrutinizerc3l: it's both19:57
kerioi wanna work for openmoko19:57
keriohow much do you pay?19:57
DocScrutinizerthere's openmoko the community project, and there is/was openmoko the company19:57
DocScrutinizerthough the company has pretty much closed down, the project lives on19:58
c3lwhy '/way', are they shutting down?19:58
c3law thats sad19:58
keriohuh... from the maemo wiki, Batteries: "For good operation times with Li-Ion batteries, discharge the battery from time to time by leaving the product switched on until it turns itself off. " "Lithium-ion batteries should never be "deep-cycled" like Ni-Cd batteries "19:58
Shapeshifterbecause it doesn't work.19:58
DocScrutinizerkerio: that's obviously BS. There's no such thing like a memory effect on LiIon19:59
DocScrutinizerand yes, LiIon will break on first deep dischage20:00
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kerioli-ion will never deep discharge20:00
SpeedEvilThat's not quite accurate.20:00
kerioif the battery is smart enough20:00
DocScrutinizernot like NiMH/NiCad which don't care at all20:00
SpeedEvilThe recommendation to regularly discharge to switchoff will reset the battery charge meter - if it was used sanely20:00
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ShadowJKit's bs :)20:05
ShadowJKkerio, what batteryare you using?20:05
kerioShadowJK: chinese one20:06
kerioso yeah20:06
kerioi'm not expecting anything even remotely close to a correct measure20:06
ShadowJKdo you have a dmm?20:06
DocScrutinizerwhy dmm, just read out "designed"20:07
ShadowJKi guess20:07
kerioa what?20:08
ShadowJKhal-device bme | grep reporting.design20:08
DocScrutinizerlshal20:09 = 122320:09
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DocScrutinizerhal-device bme ?? o.O20:09
DocScrutinizeryou never stop to learn :-)20:09
keriowhat's that?20:09
ShadowJKkerio, how is the battery meter behaving20:10
kerioShadowJK: steady, for now20:10
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DocScrutinizerkerio: that's "cell is supposed to have 1223mAh"20:11
LjLdoes it take a lot of light to be able to use the N900's screen in reflective mode with the backlight disabled?20:12
DocScrutinizeryes, definitely20:13
DocScrutinizerplus a mostly white screen content20:13
kerioblack-on-white looks good under sunlight20:14
kerioforget colors though20:14
* DocScrutinizer wonders where's the big diff tween lshal and hal-device20:14
ShadowJKlshal dumps everything20:15
DocScrutinizerexcept obviously hal-device has a different set of cmdline options20:15
* ShadowJK shrugs20:15
DocScrutinizerfunny enough is --help of hal-device, which refers to lshal-format :-P20:16
keriois the cell supposed to have 1223mAh?20:16
LjLyeah i knew you'd mostly lose colors20:17
DocScrutinizererr man hal-device maybe20:17
LjLi'm thinking mostly about reading ebooks in sunlight20:17
DocScrutinizer[2010-08-14 19:11:55] <DocScrutinizer> kerio: that's "cell is supposed to have 1223mAh"20:17
DocScrutinizerLjL: should work, maybe20:18
LjLwell if you keep the backlight *on* at least, is it definitely readable in sunlight? :P20:18
DocScrutinizerblack on white is20:19
DocScrutinizerwhite on black prolly not20:19
keriowanna read ebooks under sunlight?20:20
keriobuy a kindle20:20
kerioor a nook20:20
kerioor... a motofone20:20
MohammadAGor a book20:21
kerioMohammadAG: can you turn pages with your... "book"?20:22
kerioand take notes?20:22
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DocScrutinizertaking into account the virtually non existent price difference between ebook and paper, the format chaos, and the DRM PITA, it's probably the most sensible solution to go for paper20:22
kerioit's obviously copied from the kindle20:22
DocScrutinizeron 'book' you can't recharge the battery :-/20:23
MohammadAGthat's a blocker20:23
Dakonsee it the other way around: you don't need to recharge books ;)20:25
kerioDakon: LIES20:26
Dakonyeah, propaganda of the paper conspiracy20:26
DakonI confess ;)20:26
kerioDocScrutinizer: drm?20:26
keriomeh, just go ePUB20:27
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DocScrutinizerdigital restrictions management20:27
keriohard to find a lot of good books that are less than 70 years old anyway20:28
javeI'm trying to chmod u+x a file ive downloaded but it doesnt work, why?20:28
infobotdrm is probably or the Direct Rendering Module, or called Direct Rendering Manager. "an acronym for "Digital Rights Management" ", or ... the best big black-caca from the ass of gates  Just Say No (tm), or
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DocScrutinizers/ePUB/eMule   :-P + *.pdf20:30
kerioemule? D:20:30
DocScrutinizereDonkey whatever20:31
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RST38hAm I the only one feeling pity for iPhone users after seeing this: ?20:31
DocScrutinizerI never feel pity for iPhone users20:31
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kerioed2k is dead as... dead20:31
DocScrutinizermhm, see? Proves I'm not involved in such activities20:32
javehmm so a binary must be put in /bin to chmod it runnable?20:32
keriothe future is private bittorrent trackers20:32
kerioand, for smaller stuff, file hosting services20:33
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kerionot that i use any of that, of course20:33
DocScrutinizerjave: you can't chmod +x on a vfat fs20:33
kerioi thought vfat was always 77720:33
javeah ok so that whas it20:33
DocScrutinizerMyDocs is VFAT20:33
javeok I see.20:33
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DocScrutinizerkerio: yep, maybe. But anyway afaik it's mounted noexec20:34
keriooh, so *that* needs to be secure20:34
DocScrutinizer/dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmas20:37
DocScrutinizer/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixe20:37
javethe audio program I compiled makes sound!20:38
javehowever, very quiet20:38
DocScrutinizerwhat's the audio device/interface used?20:39
javeI can set it what should I use?20:39
DocScrutinizeramazing it works at all20:39
DocScrutinizertry default20:39
kerioyou should use pulse20:39
javepcm.pulse didnt work20:39
DocScrutinizertry "default"20:40
javeok, also very quiet20:40
DocScrutinizeryou're aware this needs to be a user config option?20:40
LjLDocScrutinizer: maybe overall paper is currently better, but when it comes to public domain books, the cost is nil, they're available in most format, and there is no DRM ;)20:41
javewell, ive merely compiled sbagen, and patched it to support alsa20:41
DocScrutinizerLjL: ack20:41
javeit has a -d flag for device choice20:41
DocScrutinizerthat's good enough I guess20:41
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javeah now I managed to fck upp audio completely lol20:42
javemediaplayer block20:42
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javeand why was it absoulutely necessary to invent a new usb plug? ive got milions of the old ones, 0 of the newfangled micro variant20:44
DocScrutinizerjave: (micro USB) address blackmail to USB consortium20:45
DocScrutinizerNokia-N900-42-11:~# aplay -v /usr/share/sounds/ui-wrong_charger.wav20:45
DocScrutinizerPlaying WAVE '/usr/share/sounds/ui-wrong_charger.wav' : Signed 16 bit Little Endian, Rate 24000 Hz, Stereo20:45
DocScrutinizerALSA <-> PulseAudio PCM I/O Plugin20:45
luke-jrc3l: it doesn't have to be conductive at all20:46
luke-jrc3l: the stylus is just a piece of plastic20:46
DocScrutinizeraplay -v /usr/share/sounds/*.wav   # :-D20:46
javebinaural beats on n900 so close yet so far20:47
DocScrutinizerjave: loud enough for me20:47
FireFlyHi; does anyone know if the N900 wifi driver (wl12xx, I think) supports short preamble mode?20:48
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FireFlyFrom what I can tell, it didn't back in february 200920:48
FireFlyBut I dunno if it's changed20:49
javeDocScrutinizer: after a reboot it works! seems hw:0,0 wasnt stellar to try20:50
DocScrutinizeryup, ack20:50
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javefinaly sbagen in a phone!20:51
DocScrutinizerbasically PA hijacks the whole audio, and fsckups it thoroughly :-P20:51
javeI kind of knew, but on my desktop pulse seems to sort of notice when I go directly at the hw and wait20:52
* DocScrutinizer nods20:52
DocScrutinizern900 PA setup seems to be particularly messed up20:53
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c3lluke-jr: then its got to be a preassure sensitive display?  not like the desire or iphone, on those a pice of plastic would never work.20:54
luke-jrc3l: N900 is resistive, yes20:55
DocScrutinizeralso seems completely unclear how "ALSA <-> PulseAudio PCM I/O Plugin" is supposed to cooperate with PA policy enforer engine (or whatever it's called)20:55
javehmm I get "broken pipe" when screen goes blank, and comes back again. odd20:55
c3lluke-jr: I know alot of resistive displays easily get damaged and 'worn out', is that the case for n900 too?20:56
luke-jrc3l: news to me20:56
DocScrutinizerc3l: iPhone etc have capacitive touchscreen. N900 has resistive touchscreen. Please refer to wikipedia20:56
DocScrutinizerc3l: what kind of "wear out" do you mean specifically?20:57
c3lwikipedia doesnt have user experiences =) but id better try it than ask quiesionts :>20:57
keriothe insane number of tiny scratches all over the place?20:58
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c3lDocScrutinizer: easier getting scratches and so, to scratch the ipohone display for instance a pice of metal doesnt help, you need a pice of stone or something similar. is the n900 display more sensitive in that sense?20:58
DocScrutinizerc3l: anyway the N900 has best resistive ts I even used/tested20:59
DocScrutinizerc3l: yes, it's way more sensible to scrathes etc20:59
knightstalkerc3l,I would never tested that,I care about money :p21:00
DocScrutinizerc3l: that's why a lot of users apply screen protetors to their N90021:00
DocScrutinizerc3l: not me though, I got no significant scratch or ditch21:01
DocScrutinizeror whatever on my 10 months old N90021:01
c3lah, its no decreased preformance for the screen with a protective plastic film? cool, then I guess theres no real problem. so a slight touch on the screen with your finger wont make it respond, right?21:02
DocScrutinizerif I ever feel like it's time to do, I'll get a replacement touchpanel for 60EUR21:02
c3loh well that sounds promising21:02
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kerioDocScrutinizer: aren't you the EE who broke the flat cable that connects the lcd, breaking the n900 in the process?21:03
DocScrutinizerno, it broke by itself. Wasn't me who broke it :-P21:03
DocScrutinizerhow's that related to touchpanels though?21:04
kerioif *you* couldn't do that, i wouldn't get close to it with a d&d standard-issue 10 feet pole21:04
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DocScrutinizerbut, as mentioned above. It's probably been a hidden defect that just became obvious and servere by disassembly21:05
DocScrutinizerthat flat cable is poorly designed21:06
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DocScrutinizerthey should have used a ZIF-FPC connector, rather than a b2b-plug21:08
DocScrutinizerafter all a FPC is no 'board'21:08
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DocScrutinizerso board to board connector plug is somewhat odd there21:09
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DocScrutinizerthe way it's no:  b2b-plug on FPC-main on FPC-jumper-patch. If it were b2b-plug on jumper-rigid-board on FPC that would have been much more rugged anyway21:12
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DocScrutinizeras it's now each little bit of force applied to the whole construction tends to break the joints between the three parts21:13
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DocScrutinizerkerio: let me put it this way: when disassembling the N900, on separating the upper display half from lower main body you MUST NOT apply any pulling or bending force to the point where flexible plastic connector is attached to the main board. Carefully(!) pry out the board2board plug from it's receptacle by using a lever like e.g credit card or similar - refer to RX-51_SM_L1/221:34
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.21:35
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* DocScrutinizer enters "rfc:1459" into URL field of Konqueror21:37
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: duh, thought you'd query for 1149 :-P21:42
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DocScrutinizer>>The bandwidth is limited to the leg length.<< LOL21:45
FireFlyISO 3103 is another nice standard21:45
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trip0any autobuilder/packaging experts alive right now?21:55
trip0i can't find the error message in this:
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_llll_trip0: loosk like no error to me22:04
trip0_llll_, that was my conclusion as well :(22:04
trip0maybe I should just resubmit it...22:05
trip0maybe it'll magically work22:05
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_llll_scripts run with set +e perhaps22:07
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javeif id like to publish my sbagen port to n900, would "garage" be a suitable place?22:10
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kerioDocScrutinizer: let me put it this way: i WILL NOT dissassemble the n90022:13
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: SpeedEvil is calling you again22:14
SpeedEvilI'm sort of tempted to dissasemble mine a little to add stuff.22:14
crashanddieyou have your own GA?22:14
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hatseflatsevening everyone22:21
hatseflatsrunning OS2008, having trouble getting the media library to refresh22:22
hatseflatsI figured that inserting the sd card was a trigger, it used to be it seems, but no matter how hard I try or how I combine rebooting and inserting the card, the library remains empty22:22
hatseflatsdoes anyone know if there's a magic 'refresh library now' button or script?22:24
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trip0anyone tried getting a meegotouch-based app to run on the n900?22:27
trip0somewhat surprised that noone has ported icecc to the n900 yet22:28
trip0or, perhaps it is there...22:29
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* trip0 looks in dpkg22:29
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DocScrutinizerjave: sure22:33
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DocScrutinizerhatseflats: dunno about 2008 - anyway check tracker22:35
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javeI'm dorry to ask silly questions about garage, but I'm finding the docs confusing. "getting started" starts with an article about forking for instance22:36
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DocScrutinizermight help22:40
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* trip0 adds icecc to extras-devel22:45
keriowhat's icecc?22:45
trip0distributed compiler system22:45
trip0should allow you to compile stuff faster22:46
trip0a lot of people do native compiles, this will allow you to employ other arm devices to make it faster22:47
kerioheh, a cluster of n900s22:47
trip0yep :)22:47
trip0where's that lbt character?22:47
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hatseflatsDocScrutinizer: trackerd binary is missing from the system22:49
hatseflatssomehow :/22:49
rm_youStskeeps: sup22:49
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hatseflatsDocScrutinizer: any idea to which package that thing belongs to?22:51
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keriobtw, external charger ftfw22:52
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GAN900crashanddie, Flickr got so heavy after the last update.22:55
lbttrip0: pong22:55
rm_youGAN900: i asked this yesterday but never got a response... how much have things moved towards Meego around here?22:55
trip0rm_you, meego porting on the n900 is going well afaik22:56
trip0almost have a working modem22:56
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rm_youi've heard people saying Maemo is going to be a dead-end project, and it makes some sense but don't know exactly how much stock to put in it22:57
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trip0just about everything has a beginning and an ending22:57
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trip0Maemo lives on in meego, so it really can't be considered a "dead end"22:58
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keriotrip0: huh?22:58
rm_youso are people planning on switching over to Meego development?22:58
keriomeego uses rpm, maemo uses deb22:59
kerioit's a *HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE* difference22:59
rm_youI haven't yet looked into setting up a meego dev env22:59
trip0kerio, wrong? i doubt it. package format is actually a trivial diff22:59
keriorm_you: i guess people are waiting for... a device22:59
crashanddieGAN900: I don't really mind, I like the new lightbox22:59
rm_youi mean, that makes sense22:59
rm_youI guess Harmattan is not happening now22:59
crashanddieGAN900: plus, by right-clicking on the main picture, you can go directly to higher res without going through the lightbox22:59
rm_youI would assumer22:59
trip0harmattan lives23:00
rm_youagain, i've been gone for like three months so i'm just trying to catch up on all the happenings i missed23:00
trip0harmattan will probably be on the first "meego" device23:00
rm_youi would have expected them to jump ship and put all their resources into making Meego work, instead of splitting up their focus23:00
trip0well, meego is more than just nokia23:01
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trip0kerio, and also, i haven't heard that harmattan will be rpm based23:02
kerioharmattan is still maemo23:02
kerioit'll probably have the meego handset ui23:02
trip0they are calling it harmattan/meego23:02
trip0according to the meego wiki23:02
kerio(yes, yes, User Experience - it's still a user interface)23:02
trip0yay, icecc is not in the extras-devel!23:03
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Jamy98can anyone help me with Joomla?23:04
keriosure, the world is big23:05
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keriosomeone can23:05
* lcuk throws a snowball @ rm_you 23:09
* rm_you waves at lcuk23:09
lcukhow have you been rm_you23:10
rm_yougot a new job, moved to a different house, bought a car23:11
lcukbloody nora23:11
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lcukstill in same area?23:12
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* lcuk goes back to sorting out todays photos23:14
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crashanddielcuk: photos?23:14
lcukyes, we went out so I was moving them to their folder23:15
lcukrm_you, moved into the bar?23:16
rm_youwe HAD a bar at our old house23:16
rm_younew one does not :(23:16
lcukwhy move ?23:16
rm_youall our booze in sitting in a box23:16
lcuksounds almost ideal23:16
rm_youi loved it23:16
rm_youbut our lease ran up and i couldn't generate enough interest quickly enough to get people to resign before the landlord found new tennants23:17
rm_youso we moved into a smaller place23:17
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lcukTHAT is how beer should be delivered23:18
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lcukcrashanddie, went to the museum to see the dinosaurs and other assoc natural history stuffs23:19
* b-man` just got back from a lloonngg trip23:19
rm_youlcuk: dunno if i mentioned, but I'm working for an oil company now T_T23:19
lcukrm_you, what are you doing for them?23:21
lcukhopefully your job is not on a lilo with a net23:21
rm_youIT Infrastructure / Security23:21
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rm_youworking for a company that doesn't do exploration/production23:21
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rm_youjust refining/sales23:22
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rm_youHave you heard of Reliant?23:22
rm_youI don't work for them :P23:22
lcukonly in the robin sense23:22
rm_youbut supposedly they're our competitor in Europe23:22
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lcukReliant  was a British car manufacturer. The company was traditionally based at Tamworth in Staffordshire, England, but in 2001 it moved to nearby Cannock. ...23:23
rm_youdifferent one23:23
lcuk:P not the same one i guess23:23
rm_youthis one is an energy company23:23
lcukso were those guys23:23
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lcukyou could drive 40000000 miles on a tank of gas :P23:23
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GAN900rm_you, well, here, not a lotl23:26
GAN900rm_you, in general, it feels like scorched earth.23:26
GAN900rm_you, Quim doesn't even vaguely notice Maemo stuff anymore.23:26
rm_youthat's more like what I figured23:27
GAN900rm_you, Stskeeps has completely moved over to MeeGo.23:27
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rm_youyeah, well he's actually working for them on the project now right?23:27
GAN900distmaster is open (and likely to be funding something else)23:27
rm_youlike, they write his paycheck23:27
rm_yousomeone mentioned Meego backporting was moving along well?23:28
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rm_youwhat are your feelings about the direction things are going? are you going to adopt meego with open arms, begrudgingly, or nevar!>23:28
keriohmm... did titan recompile the fcam-drivers for his kernel?23:29
keriothe latest version, i mean23:29
rm_youI was looking into buying tickets to Dublin for the Meego thing23:29
luke-jrwho is titan anyhow23:29
rm_youbut only if i can find somewhere there to stay on the cheap, IE someone's couch :P23:29
lcukrm_you, you can happily stay on our couch, however its in the wrong country :P23:31
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lcukmight have to get up a bit early each morning23:31
rm_youIf they do something in the UK, i would take you up on that :P23:32
lcukand theres a bit of a swim to get there23:32
* lcuk actually pondered stuff like that today23:32
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lcukwalking round manchester uni it reminded me of Copenhagen meetup location23:32
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lcukand for once in its life, there was bluesky23:33
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GAN900rm_you, burnt out.23:36
GAN900rm_you, things are just as messy as always and the scorched earth policy that's been adopted with is exhausting.23:37
luke-jrscorched earth?23:37
GAN900Aside from the fact that Nokia hasn't really learned any of the lessons of the past 5 years.23:37
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jacekowskidevilsadvocate: have you heard about flash 10.1 from adobe?23:38
GAN900luke-jr, MeeGo's seeming policy of severing all ties with Maemo and, stonewalling its contributors and refusing to leverage any of its experience or infra.23:38
jacekowskiwell, thing is that phone has 2 years of life at most23:39
luke-jrwhat phone?23:39
xae8kooHow is skype on N900?23:39
luke-jrNokia makes phones?23:39
jacekowskiand supporting it above that is like flogging a dead horse23:40
luke-jrxae8koo: proprietary23:40
xae8koodoes it work well?23:40
luke-jrxae8koo: unless you want video23:40
jacekowskibetter than pc skype23:40
jacekowskii don't want anybody to watch me23:40
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rm_youGAN900: yeah23:40
jacekowskiand i ussualy don't want to watch somebody else, unless it's she and she's hot and nude23:40
jacekowskibut that kind of people ussualy don't call me23:41
lcukjacekowski, so your mum stopped phoning?23:41
rm_youGAN900: it's looking like the platform might end up as dead as n800 by the end of 2010 :/23:41
xae8kooI want the Nokia N900 so bad I'd kill for it!23:41
jacekowskilcuk: long time ago23:41
rm_youespecially if they manage to announce a Meego phone at the summit23:41
luke-jrxae8koo: fail23:41
rm_youI have it, i love it23:42
rm_youbut i'm glad i didn't buy it23:42
jacekowskiisn't it that they are required to support product for couple years23:42
xae8koorm_you: Why?23:42
luke-jrjacekowski: no23:42
jacekowskilike car manufacturers are required to keep spare parts avaliable for 15 years23:42
luke-jrjacekowski: that's warranty, not support23:42
xae8koomaemo is open source so we just comunity fix it23:42
jacekowskixae8koo: not all of t23:42
rm_you<rm_you> GAN900: it's looking like the platform might end up as dead as n800 by the end of 2010 :/23:42
luke-jrcar manufs aren't required to produce new compatible parts23:42
luke-jrxae8koo: Maemo is maybe 40% open source23:43
jacekowskithing is23:43
luke-jrxae8koo: the community can't fix it23:43
jacekowskiwe can probably upgrade to meego easily in future23:43
luke-jrxae8koo: it's like Mac OS X23:43
xae8koorm_you: Dead? But it has an Nintendo 64 emulator, and it can be controlled by PS3 remotes23:43
lcukpiece by piece was can try to luke-jr23:43
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lcukit depends on what you suggest needs fixing - if its one of the "apps" we can get replacements23:44
xae8kooEasy Debian will always be there, rigth?23:44
luke-jrlcuk: not worth the effort23:44
lcukif its hildon-desktop or home etc, well the code is available23:44
luke-jrxae8koo: …23:44
luke-jrxae8koo: I run Gentoo23:44
xae8kooEasy Gentoo? xD23:44
jacekowskiwell, we want n900 to run meego in the future23:44
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jacekowskiand we're not far from that23:44
luke-jrxae8koo: no, Gentoo is never easy23:44
xae8kooluke-jr: I know, but can you make calles with gentoo?23:44
luke-jrxae8koo: in theory!23:45
xae8kooHow long will it take me to install Mac Os on the N900?23:45
rm_youxae8koo: once the repositories fall into disarray, i consider the platform dead23:45
rm_youbecause you can't install things properly anymore23:45
rm_youand hope of upgrades is gone23:46
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rm_youi plugged in my n800 the other day and tried to install something and it just flat fails now23:46
lcukwell its not like is going anywhere23:46
luke-jrxae8koo: days23:46
lcukrm_you, external repo?23:46
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rm_youapps that were in extras23:47
rm_youjust don't install properly anymore23:47
xae8kooSo the repo will disseapear?23:47
keriodid you apt-get update first?23:47
lcukthats wrong then but for another reason23:47
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lcukxae8koo, it shouldnt23:47
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xae8kooIf it does I will simply return the phone. In norway, we have something equilent of a warranty for 5 years on everything electronic. I would return it as a faulty product.23:48
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luke-jrxae8koo: it's not faulty23:49
luke-jrjust not supported23:49
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luke-jrI haven't heard of anyone else in Norway managing to get a refund on their N8x023:49
rm_youthe repos don't disappear, they just bit-rot23:50
GAN900rm_you, really depressing.23:50
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GAN900rm_you, and, amazingly, Intel people seem to be completely incapable of dealing with a community.23:51
xae8kooIf I buy a phone, and is promiced features and applications for it, that I don't get. Then it is fraud23:51
luke-jrxae8koo: 1. it's not a phone23:52
luke-jr2. you weren't promised anything it didn't include23:52
luke-jrheck, I don't even see Nokia promising Linux23:52
SpeedEvilxae8koo: It's not.23:52
SpeedEvilxae8koo: It's fraud if they knew at the time of sale that the applications would not appear.23:53
rm_youi'm hoping that won't happen23:53
SpeedEvilxae8koo: Otherwise it's merely inefficiency.23:53
rm_youor at least not nearly as soon as I'm afraid23:53
rm_youbut it will eventually23:53
rm_youbut in the meantime it's a NICE phone23:53
rm_youi love it23:53
xae8kooI think it will, in any case, be bether than Nokia N9723:54
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xae8kooWich were my last phone23:54
luke-jrxae8koo: again, N900 is not a phone23:54
luke-jrif you're comparing things as phones, N97 is probably better23:54
luke-jrN900 is a multifunction device23:54
xae8kooThe N97 annoyed me, and my friends had cooler gadgets23:55
luke-jrcombines low-end phone, camera, GPS, flashlight, etc23:55
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xae8kooluke-jr: Low end? Is it bad for SMS and calling?23:56
luke-jrxae8koo: it doesn't support MMS, for example23:56
xae8kooluke-jr: fMMS or gMMS23:56
luke-jrnor comply with cell phone standards23:56
luke-jrxae8koo: fMMS doesn't work. no idea on gMMS23:56
luke-jrthe phone app is glitchy too23:57
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luke-jrit's a coin flip if it's portrait or landscape23:57
luke-jrat least if you set it to always-landscape mode23:57
xae8kooMKMMS is what I want23:57
trip0lbt, do you know if the meego pub obs can build meegotouch packages for maemo?23:58
trip0that'd be the awesome if it could...23:58
xae8kooI want it to flip when I open the keyboard23:58
luke-jrxae8koo: good luck23:58
lcuktrip0, WIP afaik23:58
luke-jractually, I think it is always landscape when you open kb23:59
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trip0guess i'll try23:59
xae8kooI hate it23:59
luke-jrit's the other way that is glitchy23:59
xae8kooI have to wait for monday to get one23:59
lcuktrip0, if you get any feedback, there is a bug report about it23:59
lcukhold on23:59
luke-jralso, it takes like 5-10 seconds to answer calls23:59
xae8koo5-10 seconds?23:59
xae8kooThat seams strange23:59
luke-jrwhile you wait for the screen to rotate23:59

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