IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-08-13

DocScrutinizercould we run microb in a chroot, or flash in a sandbox, or whatever?00:00
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DocScrutinizeruser microb ?00:01
DocScrutinizerand user microb has write permisions to MyDocs only00:02
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DocScrutinizerwill be a bombastic migraine I guess, as microb is a support function for so many other services00:04
kerioDocScrutinizer: the latest firefox can run flash in a separate process00:04
DocScrutinizermhm00:04
kerioi guess it wouldn't be hard to run *that* inside a sandbox00:04
keriowithout having to sandbox the whole browser00:05
DocScrutinizeryep00:05
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E0xyay i did my first widget that do something00:05
E0x:D00:05
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DocScrutinizernow for a shell 5liner to fix that borked gainroot...00:06
DocScrutinizerwho is or does update-sudoers ?00:07
DocScrutinizers/who/what (process)/00:07
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: what (process) is or does update-sudoers ?00:07
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ds3if the author for gpsrecorder is here, THANK YOU for adding the thumbtack thingie00:10
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DocScrutinizerouch, I don't want my thumb tacked :-)00:12
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DocScrutinizerwb everybody00:41
DocScrutinizer~ping00:41
DocScrutinizer:-/00:41
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DocScrutinizershe doesn't like netsplits00:41
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DocScrutinizer~ping00:41
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DocScrutinizer~ping00:41
infobot~pong00:41
kerio~botsnack00:41
DocScrutinizer~botsnack00:41
infobotDocScrutinizer: aw, gee00:41
kerio:(00:42
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infobotkerio: thanks00:42
luke-jr~botsnack00:43
infobotaw, gee, luke-jr00:43
kerio^_^00:43
kerio~docsnack00:43
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DocScrutinizerblargh kerio - rancid!00:44
keriowhy you ungrateful...00:45
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DocScrutinizerit wasn't good! gimme another00:48
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kerio~docsnack00:48
* infobot snaps the snack in a flying jump, and runs to bring it to DocScrutinizer. Halfway there, eats snack00:48
keriohehe00:48
DocScrutinizer:-S00:48
keriopoor DocScrutinizer00:48
keriowhere are you running infobot, btw?00:48
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DocScrutinizerkerio: your punctuation is abyssmal. >> where are you running, infobot, btw?<<00:50
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DocScrutinizerI guess she won't answer00:51
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smharis the user account for bugs.maemo.org different than talk.maemo.org?01:08
jacekowskihave you seen new opera01:08
jacekowskiwith faster JS01:08
jacekowskiOur further-optimized JavaScript engine is over 50% faster than in Opera 10.50.01:08
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GAN900smhar, yes.01:11
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smharmy God, how many accounts do I need to keep track of?! :-)01:11
GAN900smhar, Talk predates bugzilla by a few months01:12
GAN900And Talk started off as internettablettalk.com01:13
GAN900Not maemo.org01:13
GAN900and 3 accounts. :)01:13
lcukGAN900, o_O didn't know01:13
lcukbug #1 has comments from april 28 200501:13
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it01:13
lcukwheres earliest "first post" in tmo?01:14
smharthey could have used the same account for bugzilla, what is the 3rd?01:14
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GAN900smhar, Garage01:16
GAN900smhar, for Bugzilla and Talk? No, no they couldn't have01:16
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39   is earliest thread I can find, posted july 27 200501:16
GAN900That's why I told you they were started as separate websites.01:16
GAN900lcuk, bugzilla was private initially, I believe.01:16
GAN900But I hadn't realized bug #1 was that old.01:17
GAN900So, scratch that, reverse it.01:17
GAN900 /Wonka01:17
lcukGAN900, sure, understandable, just looking at the uber coolness that is the start!01:17
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lcuki once did same for slashdot, that has such humble beginnings too!01:17
smharbut do I really need to have an account just to view the bugs?01:18
lcukheh, that bug1 got bumped again this year :D01:18
lcukno, you can view openly i believe?01:18
lcukbug 1000001:18
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10000 Overwriting of devices in PAIRED DEVICES LIST01:18
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lcukcan you see that ^01:19
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GAN900smhar, no. . . .01:20
GAN900smhar, remove httpS01:20
lcukoh yeah01:20
smharyes.. thanks. I followed a link that did not show anything, probably for reporting bugs: https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=DreamRemote01:20
MohammadAGis there an api to get gps coordinates using a shell?01:21
lcukdo shells know their location?  I thought they had hermit crabs in?01:21
GAN900smhar, yes, that's a reporting bug.01:22
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GAN900smhar, you'll want to use Advanced search to view all bugs for a product.01:22
MohammadAGguess not01:22
* MohammadAG uses the reverse engineer method01:22
lcukMohammadAG, i think you can though01:23
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lcukluke-jr, must have found a way at some point01:23
MohammadAGyeah, the reverse engineer method :P01:23
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MohammadAGstrace -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1|grep '| 000'01:23
GAN900The fact that it's a function of the modem makes things retardedly complicated.01:23
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DocScrutinizerdamn! since I edited my wiki/user:talk page for a test, I get >>You have new messages (last change).<< notifier on *every* wiki page, and nothing makes this crap vanish :-/01:31
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luke-jrGAN900: not really01:32
luke-jrMohammadAG: there's a Python API01:32
MohammadAGPython != Shell though01:33
luke-jrMohammadAG: for Gentoo, there's gpsd01:33
MohammadAGI'm on maemo01:33
luke-jrpython - <<\CODE01:33
luke-jr:p01:33
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you're a reversed engineer? :-P01:40
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lcuklol01:40
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crashanddieGAN900: http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4886039427/01:48
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, no, I reverse engineers01:49
crashanddieis that a euphemism?01:50
* MohammadAG reverses DocScrutinizer 01:50
GAN900crashanddie, how's work?01:50
* DocScrutinizer is totally symmetric. You won't notice a difference01:50
crashanddietiring01:50
MohammadAGWhen it reaches -devel, prolly in the next 15 mins, knock yourself out, http://maemo.org/packages/vieew/phone-control/01:51
crashanddiegoing through hardcore training, with a guy who has a brain wired at 8000 miles an hour01:51
MohammadAGbah, http://maemo.org/packages/view/phone-control/01:51
MohammadAGDoes mostly everything here, http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control cam not tested01:52
MohammadAGoff to have a break, cya01:52
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crashanddieanyway, off to bed01:56
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chiwhich filesystem for sd for n900?01:59
chivfat?02:00
yuizy__what is the best way to get a map widget in a qt n900 program?02:01
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SpeedEvilhttp://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/qt_map_widget/02:04
SpeedEvilyuizy__:02:05
SpeedEvilsome thoughts (largely not mine)02:05
chiokay just going to try vfat tomorrow since i left my charger02:05
chihope i'm right02:05
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DocScrutinizervfat should work02:14
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mceplhow good is bandwidth on repository.maemo.org? Connection there timeouts on me all the time02:54
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DocScrutinizerbad "weather" - try again later03:01
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Mr_Nobusweet fucking metero shower the night :D03:01
Mr_Nobu*meteor03:01
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DocScrutinizerfsckng clouds03:02
DocScrutinizernot even a +8 iridum flare came thru03:03
Mr_Nobufair enough03:04
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DocScrutinizerhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=784527#post784527  pleeeease tell me his exact coords so I can program the minuteman - this ignorant A...03:18
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zeltakhya..just came back from linxucon..played a bit with the new mameo phone ;-) (intel dev unit)03:27
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zeltaki meant new meego phone obviously ;-)03:31
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TermanaN900morning03:35
zeltakbtw how can one create a shortcut to run a cli app i tried osso-xterm -e COMMANd but that dosent seem to work03:35
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merlincoreyzeltak: I don't know, but I would imagine that if you looked at whatever irssi does you should do that03:49
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TermanaN900I think im a cyber criminal now. I thought i'd do some unsecured phpmyadmin sites last night03:50
MohammadAGcan someone help with /etc/hosts?03:50
* MohammadAG wants to redirect facebook.com to some local site03:50
TermanaN900and i "accidently" dropped a sites main table03:50
TermanaN900now their site is borked. hope they have a backup03:50
TermanaN900:P03:50
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TermanaN900If not, i've taught them the important lesson of backups03:51
TermanaN900MohammadAG, add this to your /etc/hosts file:03:52
TermanaN900127.0.0.1 facebook.com03:53
MohammadAGmohammad@mohammad-laptop:~$ cat /etc/hosts03:53
MohammadAG127.0.0.1localhost facebook.com03:53
TermanaN900do it on a seperate line03:53
TermanaN900so03:53
TermanaN900127.0.0.1 localhost03:54
TermanaN900127.0.0.1 facebook.com03:54
TermanaN900it might work on a singular line, but :P i dont know03:54
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zeltakwhat email clients do you guys use? im looking for something fast and low resource?04:03
matthew-zeltak: mail.app04:03
matthew-:)04:03
zeltak:)04:04
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GAN900Who wants to start taking bets on how many releases we have left?04:18
GAN900My money's on 0-1.04:18
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mceplDocScrutinizer: awesome, clouds went away, and now I have my rapier :)04:18
GAN900Nokia is really a clueless company.04:19
DocScrutinizermcepl: lemme check :-) maybe my clouds also are gone now :-)04:19
GAN900Talk about screwing over your contributors.04:20
DocScrutinizerGAN900: except feeling the urge to ask you "you noticed now?" - what's up, pal?04:20
GAN900DocScrutinizer, just tired of the endless BS.04:20
DocScrutinizer:-S04:21
GAN900Rather irritated about the fact that I apparently wasted the last 5 years of my hobby time on them.04:21
DocScrutinizeryay, such bad mood04:21
mceplDocScrutinizer: well, I've bought N900 just day before yesterday, and I have to admit that I am still getting over the shock, that N900 is apparently not supported on Ovi.04:21
GAN900DocScrutinizer, resigned, mostly.04:21
DocScrutinizermcepl: well, tbh ovi is the LAST thing I'm missing04:22
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mceplyeah, but it tells something about the engagement of Nokia with N90004:22
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DocScrutinizerjust about to pick up loose ends of hostmode discussion and wondering where and why we got stuck04:23
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GAN900mcepl, not supported by Nokia at all, actually.04:23
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GAN900You probably wouldn't have guessed from the advertising, but it's EoL.04:24
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zeltakseriously now..ive been searching mameo.org and google for like 20 minutes..id appriciate your email app recomendation guys..whda you guys use?04:33
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SpeedEvilzeltak: thunderbird on laptop04:34
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zeltakok so no one uses email on the n900..gotcha...04:36
SpeedEvilI use email very rarely.04:36
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SpeedEvilI suppose you've tried modest?04:36
zeltakyeah the default email app? seems very cluncky and got a bad rap on maemo.org :)04:37
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SpeedEvilYou can always submit patches.04:39
MohammadAG51or rewrites04:39
SpeedEvilOr whole new apps.04:39
MohammadAG51femail04:39
MohammadAG51faster email, sounds like female04:40
MohammadAG51excellent name, just like fapman04:40
zeltakok...sorry for asking...04:42
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SpeedEvilAsking is fine, maybe you'll even get an answer!04:47
SpeedEvil:)04:47
SpeedEvilI don't actually recall any email apps in extras.04:48
SpeedEvilLots of communication and ...04:48
zeltakk thx SpeedEvil ill just use the built in mail app04:49
SpeedEvilIf you're having particular issues with it, you might consider raising a bug on the bugrtracker.04:50
SpeedEvilI don't know if this would do anything.04:50
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zeltakkk thx again05:02
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iiliusis there any way ro manually define folders to be shown in file manager?05:05
iiliusit does not show root (/) and mmclk0p1 (mounted in /usr)05:06
iiliusand memory card with ext3 fs (that is mounted in /data)05:07
iiliusacually the file manager does not show anything05:07
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iiliusand i can not take any picture with the camera05:09
tank-mani use the gpe (?) file manager05:10
iiliusi really crawed to move /usr outside of tiny rootfs, and then ...05:10
iiliustank-man: thanks, but what about camera folder?05:11
tank-mansorry i can't help with that05:12
MohammadAGhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=784834#post78483405:12
iiliustank-man: thanks anyway05:13
iiliusoh gpe fm is very nice :D05:17
iiliusMohammadAG: can it change camera folder? i can not find anything05:24
MohammadAGwhat?05:27
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iiliuscamera problem sol.05:34
iiliussolved05:34
iiliusi think it was permission problem05:35
iiliuswas unable to write on MyDocs05:35
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mceplI have two vey silly questions: a) is there an app which would display a current layout of my keyboard (how to do a long vowles on a Czech keyboard)? b) how to actually take a picture with a camera? (I am ashamed of the last one, but I repeat myself "There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers" :))05:50
mcepl*vowels05:51
Ken-Youngmcepl, I can maybe help with b).05:51
mceplso?05:51
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DocScrutinizermcepl: the cam part should be easy?05:51
Ken-Youngmcepl, When you open the camera lens cover, do you see an app launched that shows the camera view?05:51
DocScrutinizeropen slider, press trigger05:51
mcepltrigger?05:52
Ken-Youngright top button.05:52
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DocScrutinizerthe cam trigger pressbutton05:52
DocScrutinizerloccated where right handed people would expect it05:52
mceplthat tells me I can shutdown display, kill the current app etc. That's probably not a right button?05:52
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DocScrutinizerthat's center button?05:53
Ken-Youngmcepl, That's the center button, I believe.05:53
Ken-YoungGo right, young man.05:53
mceplyes, works!05:53
mceplsilly me05:53
DocScrutinizeroh my, it's late05:53
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N900dudeits a damn shame the conference in november will be called meego and not maemo dont ya agree?06:04
Ken-YoungDon't worry - it'll be called something else next year.06:05
N900dudeKen-Young: exactly06:06
Ken-YoungMy guess: "moobiboobi"06:06
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N900dudeor... "nogomeego"06:07
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TiagoTiagohi06:08
N900dudegood luck attracting developers.....silly names dont help06:08
Ken-YoungToo late to worry about that.06:08
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TiagoTiagowell, just when i thought i had fixed the issue the damn thing fights back, at first jsut renaming .mozilla to mozilla (sans dot) fixed the issue, but now the .mozilla folder is being recreated automaticly each time i strt microB and the inifinite refreshing is back Dx06:09
TiagoTiagostart*06:09
N900dudeis firefox worth installing?06:10
N900dudeon n900 i mean06:10
Ken-YoungIt does some things a little bit better.06:10
mceplit depends on what you need it for06:10
TiagoTiagoany idea how i can get this fixed ?06:10
N900dudewhat is it better at than the stock browser?06:11
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Ken-YoungN900dude, As a trivial example, the stock browser does not work well with the google translate page - you must type each character twice.   No such problem with Firefox.06:11
N900dudei see06:12
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Ken-YoungMy guess is you'll find some things work better with one browser, some with the other, so it's worth having both.06:12
N900dudeman theres a lotta negative people over at talk.maemo.org06:12
TiagoTiagothe stuff about "Nokia abandoned us" and "iPhone does it better" ?06:13
N900dudethat too... and people getting rid of their n900s06:13
TiagoTiagowhat reasons are they giving?06:14
N900dudenokia abandonig it for another os....they have a point06:14
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mceplthat's silly ... it won't stop working just because Nokia would abandon it (which I doubt)06:15
N900dudeno but meego isnt meant for n900....06:15
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Ken-YoungN900dude, I suspect a pretty fully functional Meego will be available for the N900.   It just won't be official.06:16
mceplisn't it already? what's http://maemoarena.com/2010/03/meego-now-available-for-download-for-nokia-n900/ ???06:17
* lpotter wonders why some people cant fathom "reference device"06:17
N900dudeyes but wont the n900 be underpowered? somebody mentioned meego requires higher specs and capacitive screen amongst other things?06:18
Ken-Youngmcepl, Well, I mean a Meego that actually works as a phone, not just a developer-only version with little functionality.06:18
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lpotteryou think  a reference platform is not going to work as a phone?06:19
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Ken-Younglpotter, I think it eventually wiil, but it doesn't yet, does it?06:20
nvidhiveStskeeps, you around/awake?06:20
Ken-Youngs/wiil/will/06:20
infobotKen-Young meant: lpotter, I think it eventually will, but it doesn't yet, does it?06:20
TiagoTiagoit does kinda feels like the N900 is in a limbo between the old tablets and the upcoming meego devices thuogh06:20
lpotterdoesnt mean it wont ever06:20
N900dudetoo bad about the name change....kills continuity and stability06:20
Ken-YoungI agree.   I just wanted to make sure I wasn't wrong in my belief that it is not yet usable as a phone.06:21
TiagoTiagoi don't like "Meego"06:21
TiagoTiagoWhy don't they release an update for Maemo5  renaming it Meego0 or somthing?06:23
lpotter'meego' is better than 'maemo', IMHO06:23
TiagoTiagothat would help a little bit, no?06:23
TiagoTiagoFor me, Meego sounds childish and gooey, while Maemo sounds velvety and sexy06:24
N900dudeits spilled milk now so it doesn matter....next year they will call it "beegoboobo"06:24
TiagoTiagolol06:24
TiagoTiagoi wish i was aware of what was going on back when they were thinking baout gettign a new name06:24
N900dudeso much negativity now in this once vibrant community....too bad06:25
N900dudei remember when people were excited about maemo06:25
mceplKen-Young: did anybody see ANY Meego phone yet? well, actually, any Meego device? then it's kind of mood issue, isn't it? Besides, with new CEO there is always hope that they will get their acts together06:25
Ken-YoungN900dude, A lot of people are still positive, I think.   I'd like to believe I'm one of them.   I'm very happy with my N900, and still badgering friends to get one.06:25
mceplbesides, I have been using Linux for years as my only platform, so I don't require and expect much ;)06:26
TiagoTiagoif i symlink .mozilla to mozilla would that fix the bug i'm having? (i'm not all that informed about how these things work)06:26
Ken-Youngmcepl, I'm pretty sure no Meego device has even been officially anounced yet.06:26
N900dudei love my n900 too... just seems like an unwanted child for nokia06:26
TiagoTiagowhatever it is, it's gonna be the sucessor of the N90006:27
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TiagoTiagoIt's my understanding that the N900 will be the last and only phone officially running Maemo06:28
lpotterwell, nokia is working on n900 update06:28
N900dudei dont believe in this whole "just focus on qt" talk06:29
lpotterand there was even a codedrop for meego on n90006:29
lpotterso how anyone can think that is abandonding the n900, I'll never know06:29
N900dudelpotter: proper updates and os release06:30
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Ken-YoungN900dude, I think Nokia has only two options - make Qt everywhere work, or jump on the Android bandwagon.06:30
N900dudeKen-Young: agreed06:30
lpotterandroid, schmandroid06:30
N900dudelpotter: linux, schminux06:31
lpottersymbian is on more phones than everyone else combined06:31
Ken-Younglpotter, I've got an ANdroid phone - there's a lot of really neat stuff available for it that I don't even in my wildest fantasy believe will appear on my N900.06:31
TiagoTiagoAndroid is too closed06:31
N900dudelpotter: true but what does it mean? series 40 is on a lotta phones too....so what?06:32
lpotterwhy would nokia go with android when they already sell the most phones?06:32
Ken-YoungWith my Android phone, I can speak English into it, and it will speak the French version of what I said.   I know enough French to know the translation isn't bad.   It's very cool.06:32
lpotteror, rather why would nokia _need_ to06:32
N900dudemost people dont give a flying rat's ass if it's open or closed os....why should they?06:33
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Ken-YoungN900dude, Exactly06:33
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N900dudei want an os that works.... i dont care what some linux geeks think06:33
lpotterwhat nobody really sees or takes into account is what operators want. do you think they want apple and google in control?06:34
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N900dudelpotter: trust me, operators want apple... not meego06:35
Ken-YoungN900dude, I'm happy with how my N900 works.   I do care that it is linux.   I love being able to run Python easily, not having to jailbreak for anything.   But the Openmoko + Nokia track record on making a really consumer-ready linux phone is not good.06:35
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Ken-Younglpotter, THe operators want VERY closed systems.  Maemo/Meego is the oposite of what they want.06:36
lpotterno, they want colsed systems that _they_ control.06:36
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lpotterthey want to brand there stuff06:37
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lpotterdont really get that with android or ios06:37
Ken-Younglpotter, But even a closed system they don't control is better for them than a truly open system.06:37
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lpotteryo dont think nokia knows what operators want? do yo think they would go all open source if it scared operators away?06:41
Ken-YoungAt this point, I don't think Nokia knows what Nokia wants.06:41
N900dudeKen-Young: agreed06:42
N900dudehaving 4 different os dont help...(pls spare me the qt talk)06:43
lpotterwhy do you think that? I dont see apple selling any medium or lower tier phones at all.06:45
N900dudei was talking to a developer who recently went to nokia's developer conference in London UK and he left there underwhelmed.....the feeling is for any significant apps they will still have to written in native language....qt isnt the messiah nokia says it is06:45
lpotterwhat makes qt non native?06:46
N900dudeqt is nice and all but...06:46
N900dudefor primitive stuff yes06:46
lpotterprimitve.. eh?06:47
N900dudeimho06:47
Ken-Younglpotter, I'm certain that you know much more about the industry than I do.   So you're probably right, and I'm probaly wrong.   But isn't a closed  OS, like ios, preferable to carries than an open OS, because there is an entity in charge of ios?   If they decide they simply can't support tethering, for example, they can tell Apple that's a deal-breaker for them, they won't carry the phone if Apple allows tethering, and there's at l06:47
Ken-Youngeast a chance they will get what they want.   How do they do something like that with an open OS?06:47
lpotteryou call mobility API primitive?06:47
N900dudelpotter: we can dig deep if you want... what im saying is the developers arent totally sold on this06:48
lpotterKen-Young: just because something is open does not mean they cannot make it into what they need06:48
Ken-Younglpotter, But it makes it harder to prevent consumers from making it into what *they* want.06:49
lpotterno it doesnt06:49
lpotterhow hard is it to jailbreak an iphone?06:49
Ken-YoungIt's a constatn cat-and-mouse game.06:49
lpotterand have you ever heard of anything like that on a symbian device?06:50
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Ken-YoungI know nothing about Symbian, I'm sorry to say.06:50
TiagoTiagothere was the signed apps only fiasco....06:50
lpotterI think most people on maemo talk are just pissed that nokia is now pushing Qt and not gtk06:51
N900dudesymbian is yesterday's news06:51
lpotterthats what you think06:51
luke-jrlpotter: lol?06:51
luke-jrGTK sucks. it's about time Nokia got rid of it06:51
Ken-Younglpotter, I'm not pissed about that.   I think the Qt-only approach has a chance.06:51
lpottersymbian still seels more phones that anyother06:51
TiagoTiagoNokia says the Symbian^* is still a significant player06:51
luke-jrTiagoTiago: only for phones…06:51
lpottersells that is06:51
luke-jrand MeeGo isn't targetting phones afaik06:51
N900dudelpotter: no....this is what nokia thinks....N8 is the last nseries device06:52
lpotterso06:52
Ken-YoungI'll have to convert some code of mine to Qt, but I'll be happy to do that if Nokia produces a consumer-ready device as open as the N900.06:52
lpotterthats not nokia last symbian phone06:52
DocScrutinizerKen-Young: carriers will adore open systems as it allows them to customize without help of the original equipment manuf06:52
N900dudelpotter: wanna wager?06:52
TiagoTiagoi've  been hoping they will launch another one called NX (pronounced "Next")06:52
lpotterN900dude: youd loose06:52
TiagoTiagoI like the pun there, X for ten and pronouncing it Next06:53
N900dudelpotter: whatever....forget symbian....lets talk whats important06:53
DocScrutinizerKen-Young: and why would a carrier disallow their customers to make a phone into what they wnat?06:53
N900dudefor loss of revenue06:53
DocScrutinizerthere's no such loss of revenue06:53
Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, Is that a serious question?   DO carriers want phone running bit torrent?06:53
DocScrutinizersure06:54
N900dudeyou think carries want you to make voip calls? dont be naive please06:54
TiagoTiagoimagine the data bills for heavy torrent uses06:54
DocScrutinizerthey'll love you exceeding your max allowable data transfer then charge you so they smile like a clam06:54
DocScrutinizerI'm not naive06:55
TiagoTiagoIf it's so cheap that voip providers give it for free, imagine the profit margin for mobile operators06:55
DocScrutinizeryou're uninformed06:55
DocScrutinizerit's the simplest thing for a carrier to stop your VoIP06:55
N900dudeoh here comes the mighty informed....pray tell me06:55
DocScrutinizerthey don't need to lock phone for that06:55
TiagoTiagothey can do it on the network itself instead on your device06:56
TiagoTiagoinstead of on*06:56
DocScrutinizersure I'm a bit more informed than you - at least I've talked with carriers untending to use Openmoko phones06:56
N900dudewould you like me to kiss your ring?06:56
DocScrutinizerI would like you to stoip that offensive nonsense06:57
N900dudearrogance of this community is amazing....you started being offensive by calling me uninformed06:57
DocScrutinizeryou started calling me naive - what do you expect?06:58
N900dudenaive is not offensive ....please06:58
DocScrutinizeruninformed is?06:58
N900dudeok.... agreed....whatever06:58
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DocScrutinizerc'mon make my day, bitch a bit more on me06:59
luke-jrKen-Young: so… not very open?06:59
Ken-Youngluke-jr, What's not very open?06:59
N900dudei just dont think that operators are as crazy about open os as you seem to imply06:59
luke-jrKen-Young: Maemo06:59
DocScrutinizerand I *know* at least swisscom is07:00
N900dudeok...swisscom is... your point being?07:00
DocScrutinizerand I heard from first hand about a lot of others07:00
Ken-Youngluke-jr, Like most N900 owners, I'd love to have a fully open source N900.   Having said that, Maemo is open enough for my purposes.07:00
luke-jrKen-Young: Maemo is more closed than open.07:01
Ken-Youngluke-jr, But it is still more open than ios or Android.07:01
luke-jrno07:01
luke-jrAndroid is more open than Maemo.07:01
luke-jrMaemo just uses more standards.07:01
Ken-Youngluke-jr, I disagree.   But neither is very open.07:01
TiagoTiagoI thought Android was a minefield of proprietary blobs07:02
luke-jrKen-Young: Android is, at least in my understanding, completely open at its common code, like MeeGo is supposed to be07:02
luke-jronly the platform-specific bits are usually closed07:02
Ken-Youngluke-jr, What I really want is a gnu / linux phone.   Maemo is a *lot* closer to that than Android is, and that's what I care about.07:02
N900dudewhat we are forgetting is that average joe doesnt care about open or closed os....get it?  he wants stuff that works....07:02
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lpotterN900dude: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11468_Q1_2010_figures_in_for_smartph.php07:02
luke-jrKen-Young: Maemo has 0% GNU AFAIK07:02
N900dudelpotter: great....yawn07:03
luke-jrN900dude: that's why the Average Joe has Symbian07:03
Ken-Youngluke-jr, But you can but Easy Debian on it, and have a full gnu experience.07:03
luke-jrKen-Young: sure. I have Gentoo on mine.07:03
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: that's kinda correct. Though usually android phones have signed BL and kernel and so are open but nevertheless locked07:03
luke-jrbut Easy Debian isn't Maemo ☺07:03
TiagoTiagothere are probably some parts that can't be opened due to legislation (the other day someone here told me Nokia won't open the GSM modem because that would be against a law in the UK about providing GSM hacking tools)07:03
Ken-Youngluke-jr, That's not as easy on a Droid.07:03
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: but there are Android phoens w/o that, which puts it at least on par with the single N900 device07:04
TiagoTiagoor somthing like that, i don't rmember the exact details07:04
luke-jrMaemo*07:04
luke-jrKen-Young: that depends on the device07:04
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: granted, usually those were called developer devices07:04
Ken-Youngluke-jr, I don't care that Easy Debian isn't Maemo, because Maemo is what makes Easy Debian easy.07:04
N900dudeso whats next for maemo?07:05
luke-jrfrom what I know, Android wins over Maemo in the free/open area completely07:05
luke-jrN900dude: Maemo is dead.07:05
N900dudeyes07:05
luke-jrN900dude: next is MeeGo.07:05
luke-jrwhich is supposed to compete with Android in the free/open arena07:06
N900dudeso why is nokia still selling n900 ?07:06
luke-jrN900dude: they like to make money07:06
TiagoTiagoIS there somewhere with a chart or somthing showing a comparison of how open Maemo is vcs Android?07:06
N900dudeha....by deceiving customers....shame07:06
TiagoTiagovs*07:06
Ken-YoungN900dude, How were you deceived?07:06
DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: andridiot isn't even a proper linux07:07
luke-jrN900dude: N900 has a warranty, not a contract to maintain it07:07
N900dudeKen-Young: i purchased my n900 thinking maemo was the future....obviously it was a lie07:07
luke-jrTiagoTiago: Maemo is about 40% free; Android is about 90-100% AFAIK07:07
luke-jrN900dude: where did you get that idea?07:07
luke-jrif Maemo was the future, it wouldn't exist in the present.07:08
TiagoTiagowoah, really?! Damn :(07:08
N900dudei was wrong07:08
TiagoTiagoSomtimes the future is the present with some changes07:08
luke-jrTiagoTiago: N810 was maybe 30% free I think07:08
N900dudethe maemo dudes at the summit presented it as such07:09
DocScrutinizerhttp://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html07:09
* DocScrutinizer sighs07:09
luke-jrN900dude: maybe you have a case for false advertising, but maybe not ☺07:09
N900dudei give up07:09
luke-jrif the 'summit' was after MeeGo was planned, and they portrayed Maemo as the future, that's your only chance :p07:10
DocScrutinizerchance for *what*?07:10
N900dudeof course meego was planned long time go....lets not be naive07:10
N900dude*ago07:10
lpottermeego is still in the planning stages07:10
DocScrutinizernaive is your fav word eh?07:10
N900dudegood for nokia... they know how to make $$ on unsuspecting masses07:11
DocScrutinizerif it had been planned long ago, then they had started it long ago07:11
lpotterheh.. does it _look_ like meego had been started long ago? :)07:12
Ken-YoungI think it was foolish for Nokia to adopt the name meego, and drop maemo, because it leads to the sort of anger we see hear.   But if they had just continued calling it Maemo, and made all the changes they are not planning in the transition to Meego, would people still be pissed?   If so, why?07:12
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: based on that link, M5 is actually less free than M4 :P07:12
lpotterN900dude: you are obviosuly bitter07:12
Ken-Youngs/hear/here/07:12
infobotKen-Young meant: I think it was foolish for Nokia to adopt the name meego, and drop maemo, because it leads to the sort of anger we see here.   But if they had just continued calling it Maemo, and made all the changes they are not planning in the transition to Meego, woul...07:12
N900dudelpotter: do you honestly think the intel thing happened out of thin air???? it had to have been discussed for a long time....bunch a liers thats all07:13
luke-jrKen-Young: I think for practical purposes, the anger is directed toward not having official support on N90007:13
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DocScrutinizeryepyep, but that's not accounting for actual number of sourcelines or importance of the subsystem or even total amount of code.07:13
lpotterN900dude: the deal, yes probably had been discussed for a long time. but actually planning it is another thing07:14
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N900dudeby being evasive nokia lost out...07:14
lpotterevasive?07:14
DocScrutinizerKen-Young: ack07:14
Ken-Youngluke-jr, But the N900 was supposed to be "step 4 or 5" on Maemo.   If they just kept calling it Mamo, and didn't officially support the N900 on Maemo 5, I think people would have felt let anger.   Completely irrationally.07:14
N900dudeyes07:14
Ken-Youngs/step 4 of 5/step 4 or 5/07:15
N900dudeall this step 4 talk is meaningless07:16
DocScrutinizerlpotter: if they knew about their own plans earlier, why then would they nvest so many manyears into harmattan?07:16
N900duden900 was meant to generate a quick $ for nokia...mission accomplished07:16
Ken-YoungWell, they'd better not take a *lot* more steps before they produce a consumer-ready device.07:17
lpotterDocScrutinizer: you dont think harmattan is still being worked on?07:17
lpotterN900dude: n900 is not a big money maker for nokia07:17
DocScrutinizerN900dude: yeah, let's stop being naive. N900 was Nokia's greatest success, $$ wise07:17
Ken-Younglpotter, Isn't harmattan now a meego variant?07:18
GAN900lpotter, bullshit.07:18
DocScrutinizerlpotter: I'm sure it's being worked on07:18
GAN900It's not huge volume07:18
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GAN900But it's profitability has to be big for what is essentially a skunkworks project.07:18
DocScrutinizerlpotter: but they would have done different if they knew meego merger was coming07:18
N900dudeDoc: a little cynical today, are we not?07:19
lpotterGAN900: pretty big 'skunkworks'07:19
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GAN900It's unfortunate that early adaptors and dedicated contributors are being repeatedly screwed over by Nokia in the process.07:19
lpotterDocScrutinizer: and same can be said for Qt takeover07:19
GAN900I, for one, give up.07:19
lpotterscrewed over? how so?07:19
GAN900N900 got 1 major release and (maybe) 3 minor releases.07:20
GAN900and it's effectively EoL in less than a year.07:20
GAN900Worse deal than even the 770 got.07:20
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N900dudemake no mistake: nokia knew about the intel merger long time ago....these things dont happen in weeks but months and years....stop believing bullshit07:20
lpotterGAN900: how do yo uknow there are not more updates being worked on?07:20
GAN900lpotter, the team is essentially gone07:20
GAN900lpotter, bugs are having TMs removed.07:21
GAN900lpotter, maemo.org's budget is gone.07:21
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lpotterGAN900: team is still there07:21
lpotterworking on the next phone07:21
lpotteras planned years ago07:21
GAN900lpotter, thus, the screwing.07:21
lpotterheh07:21
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lpotterright07:21
N900dudeGAN900: fully agreed07:21
DocScrutinizerwell I'm starting to feel kicky. So I'll hand over to <staff> and hope crashandie will drop in shortly07:22
lpotteragain, what makes you think there will be no more updates to n900>07:22
lpotter?07:22
DocScrutinizerbye07:22
N900dudebut its hard to convince the nokia apologists07:22
GAN900lpotter, I'm not wasting any more of my time or money on a company that seems to hate having me as a customer and a contributor.07:22
GAN900Almost 5 years was more than enough.07:22
N900dudegreat community spirit: lets kick people out!07:23
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GAN900lpotter, all signs point to it.07:23
lpotterno one is kicking anyone out07:23
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GAN900lpotter, there certainly wont be any major ones.07:23
lpotterGAN900: not from my vantage point07:23
GAN900and unsupported meeGo doesn't count.07:23
GAN900lpotter, well, time will tell, eh? :)07:23
lpotterperhaps. but some people will never be happy07:24
Ken-Younglpotter, GIven that the N900 is the current "reference platform" for Meggo, don't you think it would be smart for Nokia to officially support Meego on the N900, so that the N900 owners feel like their device hasnot either been abaondoned, or has become a dead-end back water?   Would it really be that hard to offically support Meego on the device?07:25
TiagoTiagoi read somewhere that older symbian phones (like 2-3 years old) are still gettting updates nowadays, is that true? and can we expect similar behavior with the N900?07:26
lpotterKen-Young: depends on what "official support" entails. if you mean OTA updates from maemo to meego, thats not going to happen07:27
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Ken-Younglpotter, I think people would be understanding if they were told they would have to reflash to get Meego.07:28
GAN900lpotter, doesn't take much to please me07:28
lpottern900 was developed for years before it got 'official support'07:28
GAN900and I think I've been more than forgiving07:28
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lpottermeego is a work in progress, nokia cannot officially support it because it is still in development07:29
lpottermeego on the n900 that is07:29
GAN900But if you can't even vaguely manage a par against your competitors and are now BACKSLIDING, well, I'll take my time elsewhere, thanks.07:29
TiagoTiagoWhy is it easier to throw microB into kinetic scrollikng with  a fingernail than the tip of the finger?07:30
Ken-Younglpotter, But assuming meego eventually becomes a fully usable product, why not "officially" support reflashing it onto the N900?07:30
lpotterGAN900: nokia is only backsliding because they havent released another smartphone/flagship for a long time07:31
Ken-YoungOnce it is usable.07:31
GAN900lpotter, I expect to be able to have as close an experience to that of the N900+1 as possible given the hardware limitations.07:31
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GAN900Ken-Young, because Nokia is cheap and they seem to have lost their way.07:32
lpotterKen-Young: what's 'official'? there was a recent n900 meego image released from nokia07:32
GAN900i.e., don't piss off your contributors and early adaptors, and don't screw your customers.07:32
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lpotterits just not supported because its alpha software07:32
Ken-Younglpotter, That's basically my point.   I think Nokia has handled the "optics" of Maemo->Meego poorly.07:33
Ken-Younglpotter, I think changing the name was foolish.   I think saying that it won't be officially supported on the N900 is foolish.07:34
lpotterthey changed the name because it is no long maemo07:34
lpotterlonger07:34
Ken-Younglpotter, Nokia is making Meego available for N900 users, but making them feel as if it won't be available to them.'07:34
TiagoTiagoThe name change was probably some sort of diplocatic thing 'cause of the merger with Intel's Moblin , isntead of only one side giving up their names, both did07:35
* Stskeeps yawns07:35
TiagoTiagodiplomatic*07:35
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Ken-Younglpotter, Maemo is whatever they say it is.   THey could adopt Windoze Phone and rebrand it Maemo 6.07:35
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lpotterdont think so07:36
Ken-YoungTiagoTiago, I suspect somewhere there's a group of people bitching about Intel abandoning Moblin.   Just bad PR.07:36
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TiagoTiagoI like Moblin more than Meego07:37
TiagoTiagothe name that is07:37
lpotterI think people throw around the words 'abandoned' and 'obsolete' too easily07:37
TiagoTiagoi have no direct experience with either OS07:37
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: see?07:38
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i'm partly blinded by the fact my coffee is not working yet, t.m.o is in /etc/hosts as 127.0.0.1 talk.maemo.org and i don't understand a single bit of what's going on07:39
Stskeeps:P07:39
DocScrutinizerhehe07:39
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TiagoTiagothat doesn't sound right, least not for an unmessed setup07:40
DocScrutinizerecho 127.0.0.1 freenode.net >>/etc/hosts07:40
TiagoTiagoat least*07:40
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TiagoTiagolol07:40
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: seems since a few days tmo came over here07:40
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Stskeepsi do occasionally think about /part #maemo too and focus at technical work instead of politics, too :P07:42
* DocScrutinizer just wonders what happened... Has duke nukem forever announced they won't release until ovi gets into shape, or what?07:42
TiagoTiagolol07:42
DocScrutinizermy device works as great as it did 3 months ago, maybe even better07:43
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DocScrutinizerprobably we should mess up buildhost again, this time with PR1.3 libs :-P07:46
trumeei dont give a damn as long basic stuff works as intended. No sip calls on maemo is what pisses me off.07:46
DocScrutinizermy SIP works great07:47
DocScrutinizersometimes even over UMTS07:47
trumeeDocScrutinizer, it is a fluke07:47
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trumeeDocScrutinizer, the dev says that there indeed is a bug in gstreamer07:47
DocScrutinizera whale fin?07:47
trumeeDocScrutinizer, something wrong with gstjitterbuffer07:48
DocScrutinizertsss, fsckng PA07:48
pigeonif you use fapman, does the default app manager stop working?07:48
trumeelot of people moaning about it on bug #1038807:48
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10388 Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem?07:48
TiagoTiagoi think they loack some stuff from each other, whichever you open last will not work 100%07:49
DocScrutinizermanaging jitterbuffer in gstreamer chain - WTF?07:49
TiagoTiagolock*07:49
trumeeDocScrutinizer, what wlan ap do you use?07:49
DocScrutinizeruh?07:49
TiagoTiagohttps://secure.wikimedia.org/wiktionary/en/wiki/fluke07:49
trumeeDocScrutinizer, wifi access point?07:49
DocScrutinizeraaah sorry07:49
TiagoTiagoNoun07:49
TiagoTiagofluke (plural flukes)07:49
TiagoTiago   1. A lucky or improbable occurrence, with the implication that the occurrence could not be repeated.07:49
TiagoTiago          The first goal was just a fluke.07:49
DocScrutinizerbuggy Zyxel P660 crap07:50
trumeeDocScrutinizer, dont call it buggy if sip calls work for you07:51
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DocScrutinizermaybe forwarding ports 5060 and 5004...5007 might help?07:52
trumeeDocScrutinizer, the dev has taken tcpdumps from my system, which suggests issues are with gstrtpjitterbuffer07:52
DocScrutinizersee above07:52
trumeeDocScrutinizer, i have freeswitch running on 509007:52
pigeonhmm:  1355   688 user     D <  89596 36.3  1.3 /usr/bin/mafw-dbus-wrapper mafw-gst-re07:52
DocScrutinizerjitterbuffer outside of RTP handling lib is insane07:52
trumeeDocScrutinizer, isnt rtp handling done by gstreamer07:53
DocScrutinizerthat'd be double insane07:54
trumeeDocScrutinizer, http://www.gstreamer.net/data/doc/gstreamer/head/gst-plugins-good-plugins/html/gst-plugins-good-plugins-gstrtpjitterbuffer.html07:55
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* DocScrutinizer shrugs07:55
trumeeDocScrutinizer, so you are just lucky that your sip calls work.07:55
* DocScrutinizer heads out to head up the milk for his latte m. in a plastic cup with a acetylene welder07:55
DocScrutinizerwhile pondering about brilliant idea to have jitterbuffer outside main SIP managing process07:56
DocScrutinizerheat even07:56
trumeeDocScrutinizer, but if you to see your N900 fail i can give u a sip uri which will give a choppy audio07:57
trumeeDocScrutinizer, if you want to try that out07:57
trumeeDocScrutinizer, that sip uri will read back to u an ebook07:58
trumeeDocScrutinizer, care to test?07:58
DocScrutinizermaybe07:58
DocScrutinizerI'm not really here anymore07:59
DocScrutinizerit07:59
DocScrutinizers just my ghost sleeptyping07:59
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DocScrutinizeror maybe DocScrutinizer significantly improved Eliza, and I am just a script running08:00
pigeondoes fapman not use the same repo/source lists as the default app manager?08:01
RST38hit does08:02
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* RST38h doubts many current Net users will be able to distinguish Eliza from themselves08:02
pigeonhmm, i can see repos in fapman, but not listed in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list or /etc/apt/sources.list08:03
TiagoTiagolol @ RST38h's comment08:04
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pigeonyou think Eliza can?08:07
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DigitalPioneerno, I can't08:08
DigitalPioneerdo you want to tell me about it?08:09
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TiagoTiagoi download a little proggie made in Puthon, but when i try to run it it complains about missing python-tk , any suggestions?08:14
TiagoTiagoPython*08:14
RST38hyou should install the missing package08:17
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TiagoTiagodo yo got a link to a tutorial on that handy?08:19
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RST38hapt-get update;apt-get install python-tk08:22
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TiagoTiagohm08:22
TiagoTiagohm, unable to lock, but i don't have any other application manager/installer running...08:24
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TiagoTiagois there a command to see who is locking it?08:24
RST38hFapman is locking it. Or HAM.08:25
RST38hQuit both08:25
TiagoTiagoneither are running08:25
pigeonapt-get/apt-worker?08:26
pigeondpkg?08:26
TiagoTiagoah, there, pyGTKEditor was locking the stuff08:26
pigeonthe catalogue page in my application manager is always blank now08:27
TiagoTiagopython-tk: Depends: blt (>= 2.4z-4.1) but it is not going to be installed08:29
TiagoTiago             Depends: tk8.5 (>= 8.5.0) but it is not going to be installed08:29
TiagoTiagowhat now?08:29
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RST38hGuess08:29
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TiagoTiagoapt-get install blt ?08:31
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TiagoTiagoi hope i don't brick it o.o08:35
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TiagoTiagoyay ! it works08:41
TiagoTiagololl, that GUI engine isn't fit for mobile devices08:41
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TiagoTiagoDo yo know of an automatic translator from tk to qt?08:44
TiagoTiagofor python progs that is08:44
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rmrfchikWhere is Jayson?09:09
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crashanddiein the house?09:21
rmrfchikbe aware09:21
rmrfchikdamn, thumbnailer eats my n90009:22
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pigeonbetter than eating your boyfriend.09:31
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Corsacdepends on the boyfriend09:34
pigeonthis one: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=62659309:35
povbotBug 626593: was not found.09:35
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meceaaahahaha! Comment number 2 is full of WIN!09:40
rmrfchikpigeon: i have girlfriend btw09:41
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pigeonrmrfchik: does she want to report some bugs too? :)09:44
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rmrfchikpigeon: only to blizzard09:47
pigeonhahahaha09:47
pigeonsc2?09:48
rmrfchikwow09:48
pigeonah09:48
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pigeoni'm waiting for cataclysm09:48
rmrfchikwe're doing LK heroic now09:49
rmrfchikand RS09:49
EdLinpigeon, me too, I'm in the beta, so I'm on IRC right now while the latest beta update is downloading. :)09:50
pigeonEdLin: cool09:50
rmrfchikwhat servers u r playing on>09:50
EdLinit is, you get free lvl 80 characters to play with.09:50
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EdLinrmrfchick: for the beta? Beta-only servers, you'd probably be on one if you were in it. For regular I'm on anvilmar.09:51
rmrfchikEU, US?09:51
EdLinUS09:51
rmrfchikah. EU here09:51
EdLinrmrfchik, the beta is only US,KR servers anyway09:51
rmrfchikEdLin: have u down LK hc?09:51
* rmrfchik is not interested in beta09:51
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EdLinrmrfchik, you have to be in wrath to be able to run the beta09:52
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rmrfchikEdLin: mmm.. sure, as we're on Lich King now09:53
* rmrfchik is King Slayer btw ;)09:53
meceKerry King, of Slayer?09:53
EdLinrmoravcik, I'm a lowbie character on anvilmar, I have no idea why they picked a casual player like me for the beta. :)09:53
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kwtmHi.  Is the N900 capable of importing contact info (say, from a CSV file) with the software present by default, or do I have to install extra software to do this?  If the latter, which software?  Is it Wammu/Gammu?09:54
meceoh.. wow.09:54
rmrfchikmece: we have down the main bad guy in the universe. /me da rule!09:55
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rmrfchikEdLin: how is beta?09:56
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EdLinrmrfchik, interesting, underwater quests, even the lowbie areas have changed radically in some cases, unlike all other expansions.09:58
rmrfchikEdLin: fly mounts?09:59
EdLinsure, even in the old-world areas of azeroth09:59
rmrfchikwhat's noticeable?09:59
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EdLinI pretty much summed up the major changes right there, underwater quests and new lowbie areas.10:00
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EdLinoh yeah, and the worgen and the other new race of midget men that slip my mind. :)10:01
rmrfchikwell, not much ;)10:01
EdLinit is a lot if you're making an alt.10:01
rmrfchikWhat's about new archeology profession?10:01
EdLinI haven't played with that yet.10:02
rmrfchikyou made alt in beta?10:02
EdLinprofessions were broke in the beta when I played it last, but I've got a 15GB update downloading that I hope will fix that.10:02
EdLinyep10:02
EdLinI made alts and played pre-made lvl 80 characters (now one is lvl 82. :) )10:02
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rmrfchikhow is if fast to level from ground?10:03
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EdLinhow fast to level to level 90 or whatever the new ceiling is from lvl 1? I have no idea, the beta has only been out a short time to testers.10:04
EdLinat least, to me.10:04
rmrfchiks/if/it10:04
rmrfchikand how fast you get 82?10:04
EdLinreal fast, it was as easy as going to level 5 as an alt. :)10:05
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EdLinall I had to do was complete an underwater quest or two10:05
EdLinalmost too easy10:05
EdLinwell, not almost, it was too easy. But that's Wow for you, it's too easy.10:06
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rmrfchikhmm. I hope it will take a more time.10:06
rmrfchikAnd eager to see guild leveling mechanics10:07
EdLinyeah, I need to join a guild on the beta server to play with that.10:07
TiagoTiagosince we're talking games, may i ask for advice in a matter dealing with forum moderators of forum of a (really) small company's awesome game?10:07
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EdLinTiagoTiago, how did you get in trouble?10:08
TiagoTiagoit was my third day there, we were chatting in the announcement thread of new versions while we waited for the o come and announce the release of a much anticipated new version,10:08
TiagoTiagome and a few other people got in a somewhat heated conversation, and some other people said we should stop or the thread was gonna be closed by the mods (that happen to be the only two guys in the company)10:09
TiagoTiagobut since many of the people in the convo withme were long time forum members, and since i had been told the moderators were both fair and quite 'lax, i assumed it wasn't gonna be an issue and jsut continue chatting10:10
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EdLinTiagoTiago, my advice is to apologize to the guys you were arguing with and the mods and to lay low for a while. Especially since the mods are so high up, you aren't going to get much leeway in dealing with them.10:11
TiagoTiagoat one point after the few people against the convo kept iantagonizing us, i told them to not feed the trolls, but since they continued to try to get us to stop i assumed they didn't consider what we were doing trolling, another indication that it was alright10:11
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TiagoTiagothen i got permabanned without warning10:11
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EdLinuh-oh10:11
TiagoTiagoand they've been ignoring my emails and other attemps of communication ever since10:11
EdLinTiagoTiago, that sucks10:12
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TiagoTiagoyeah10:12
EdLinTiagoTiago, well, the only thing you can do is email the mods. I figure though it's probably hopeless, because either they are acting like assholes, or you did, or both, so you're kind of stuck. :(10:13
TiagoTiagothe game is awesome, but i would have so much to talk about,  so much to ask, so much to suggest etc, that i've not played it ever since; i miss it :(10:13
EdLinwhat game is this, if you don't mind my asking?10:14
TiagoTiagoI find it quite weird that someone that is supposed to be fair and 'lax would permaban a 3 days old newbie on their first offense10:14
TiagoTiagoDwarf Fortress10:14
TiagoTiagowithuot even a warning10:15
EdLinwhat kind of game is it?10:15
TiagoTiagohm10:15
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EdLinobviously fantasy genere10:15
TiagoTiagoit uses ASCII art for graphics, but it's more complex than most games out there10:15
EdLinoh cool, it's a roguelike?10:15
EdLinor a MUD?10:16
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EdLinsorry, I realize you don't want to play it anymore after this. :(10:16
TiagoTiagothere is thisthe environemnt is 3D (though not drawn as such), with terrain, rivers flowing according to terrain, you can dig etc, there are dozens, if not hundreds of creatures, weather, each creature is simulated with body parts, tissues, internal organs etc10:16
TiagoTiagoerm, lol, i could swear i had backspaced evberythign before the first "the"10:17
TiagoTiagoit simuates hundreds of years of history before you begin,, including geoligical stuff, distributions of societies etc10:17
jacekowskimorning10:17
Appiahand it works great on the n900+10:18
Appiah?10:18
TiagoTiagoyou contorlt he dwarfs and try to build a fortress, usually digging it in the terrain10:18
TiagoTiagoi dunno, it was gonna be one of the things i was gonna suggest, but since i've been permabanned i cant :(10:18
crashanddie_test10:18
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EdLinAppiah, it works in Linux and OS X apparently as well as Windows.10:19
AppiahYes I can see that10:19
EdLinAppiah, bet it could be ported10:19
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TiagoTiagoit uses ASCII art but it's rendered with OpenGL10:19
EdLineven then, opengl is available in it's mobile version on the n90010:19
TiagoTiagomight need a bit of work to port to OGLES10:20
EdLinyeah, but it's probably doable with some effort.10:20
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TiagoTiagohere's the site: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/10:20
EdLinit isn't exactly Halo 2 or something10:20
DuckBootTiagoTiago: ASCII redered with OpenGL? Like TT?10:20
TiagoTiagoWhat is TT?10:21
DuckBootTrueType fonts10:21
TiagoTiagoThey got the "font" as a PNG with all the characters, plus additional images can be used to replace stuff or add differences to otherwise similar looking thigns and stuff (more or less like this, i'm probably not explaining 100% right)10:22
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TiagoTiagothe default characterset resembles DOS font i believe10:22
DuckBootThunder in Oslo atm. Hmmm10:22
EdLinTiagoTiago, this really sucks for you, apparently part of the gameplay is trading savegame files on the forums.10:22
TiagoTiagothere are several approaches to playing it, some people try to carve scultupres out of mountains, others try to survive with only a single dwarf for as long as possible (since you start with more than one, often they kill them gruesomely, ot let them locked out untill they starve to death)10:24
TiagoTiagoi was jsut starting, so my only goal was to manage to get the fortress sustainable, they always started to get crazy with all the vermin and deaths and stuff, or simply coudln't make/gather enough food to stay alive10:25
TiagoTiagoSome people even do somthing kidna similar to machinima,  taking screenshots and trying to steer the events in a way that would fit the story (but since not even the dwarfs can be controled directly (you can assign them jobs and stuff, but they might not feel like doing it) somtimes unpredicatble events messed up the intended storyline and forced epople to have their story go elsewhere)10:27
EdLinI used to be really into Nethack and Moria/Angband, so this looks really neat. Too bad the forum mods (aka the developers) used the ban hammer on you.10:29
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TiagoTiagoone of the things that makes that game so awesome is the level of detail, lots of effort is put into everything, you often get surprised with more thought put into somthing that you wouldn't even have thought about yourself10:29
EdLinNethack is like that10:30
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TiagoTiagoWhat is the gameplay like with Nethack?10:33
EdLindeceptively simple, but lots of stuff is in the game10:33
EdLinif you've ever played Rogue, it's like Rogue on steroids.10:34
EdLinwww.nethack.org10:34
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EdLinit also is available for Unix etc10:35
EdLinin fact, it's the decendant of a game that was originally made on Unix.10:35
EdLinI played it before Windows 95 was even released.10:36
TiagoTiagoI think DF is to RTS what Nethack is to dungeon crawler/rpgs10:36
jacekowskiTiagoTiago: are they paying you to advertise it or something?10:36
jacekowskibecause i never saw anybody writing so much text on irc10:36
EdLinjacekowski, why would they? It's a free game10:36
TiagoTiagonah, i got hooked, it is kidna addiciting, at least for me10:36
TiagoTiagolol10:37
TiagoTiagoi miss playing it :(10:38
crashanddieEdLin: oh yeah, playing games before win95 was released is such a kudos, eh ;)10:40
EdLincrashanddie, my first games were on the Atari 2600 and the Apple II, I go back a way.10:41
TiagoTiago'ive played lots of DOS and 2600 games10:41
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TiagoTiagogood times10:42
JaffaMorning, all10:42
EdLindo you remember what that 2600 game was that had the pulsing alian spacecraft that every now and then would dart accross the screen?10:42
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EdLinJaffa, morning10:43
TiagoTiagoNot SI, is it?10:43
EdLinno10:43
EdLinyou had a shield or something, I vaguely recall, too.10:43
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EdLinor was it the enemy that did?10:43
EdLinIt's been a long time....10:44
TiagoTiagoDoesn't ring a bell, but that doesn't say much, there were way to many 2600 games out there10:44
EdLinis there a 2600 emulator out there for maemo?10:44
TiagoTiagoi think so10:44
EdLinI bet there's an Apple II one, there is for Android and Linux in general.10:44
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* EdLin has an Android phone atm, but don't kick me out, I have an n810 too. :)10:45
TiagoTiagothere are lots of emu's ported or specificly made for the N90010:45
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EdLinTiagoTiago, it sounds like the perfect emu device, what with the TV out and included TV cables.10:46
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TiagoTiagoyep10:46
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TiagoTiagoand you can even play games with a Dualshock3 and a Wiimote :P10:46
crashanddieEdLin: Battlezone?10:46
EdLinno, battlezone was a tank game.10:47
EdLinit was a favorite too, never played it on a 2600 tho, played it in the arcades.10:47
TiagoTiagoDid you play that one with the guy that had to reach the roof of a building doging shopping carts and stuff, it had elevators to move between floors and i perhaps escalators too ?10:48
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TiagoTiagoand i think perhaps*10:48
EdLinsounds vaguely familiar, but no, I didn't play it.10:48
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crashanddierebooting, bbl10:50
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TiagoTiagoAnother one i had that i loved playing was this one with two cowboys, one on each side of the screen, and a destructible obstacle int he middle10:51
EdLindid you ever play the one with the bombs going down from a wall and you'd catch them with water buckets?10:51
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TiagoTiagoThe one i played had spiders and you picked them up with a plant vase i think10:52
EdLinvery kid-like, but I was a kid when I played it.10:52
TiagoTiagoor perhaps i'm remembering it wrong, and it was somthing else falling and you had to dodge the spiders10:52
TiagoTiagooh, i think it was plant vases dropping and you had to dodge them, someone or somthing was runnign on top of the screen dropping them10:53
TiagoTiagolol, hard to remember, it was so long ago10:53
EdLinlol10:53
TiagoTiagoafter one of the times i moved to another house (there were many over the years), before leaving the previous house i had forgotten about my 2600 for a while, after the move eventually i went looking for it and i couldn't find it anywhere, must have left it in a drawer somewhere in my old house :(10:54
TiagoTiagoI think i was like about 13 or somthing whent hat happened10:55
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EdLinTiagoTiago, bummer10:57
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TiagoTiagoyeah :/11:01
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StskeepsJaffa, GeneralAntilles: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=784443&postcount=3211:09
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EdLinStskeeps, doesn't look like good news for my old N81011:11
kerioTiagoTiago: dfterm on a server and telnet?11:12
keriothe n900 is nowhere near being able to run df211:12
StskeepsEdLin: i'm still doing work on meego for n8x0, fwiw11:12
kerioit's fatiguing for a quad-core cpu11:12
TiagoTiagoI think that might be a possibility11:12
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TiagoTiagoreally?11:12
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StskeepsEdLin: hoping to set up a similar repository like we have with n900 for the closed bits11:13
kerioTiagoTiago: depends on the fortress11:13
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StskeepsEdLin: i mean, we have 2.6.35 going and i'm not doing that cos i have to :)11:13
kerioi've seen a turing-complete calculator made with dwarves11:13
TiagoTiagolol11:13
StskeepsEdLin: hate having useless devices around my house and i have 2x n800 and one n810 :P11:13
kerioalso osso-xterm sucks for nethack :(11:14
keriono 80x2411:14
TiagoTiago:(11:14
kerio79x25 is the closest one11:14
TiagoTiagomight need a purpose made client11:14
DuckBootkerio: Port your own xterm ;-P11:14
kerioTiagoTiago: nah11:14
kerio79x25 is fine to play11:14
EdLinhow about Tcl/Tk? there was a TKAngband11:14
kerionot to *watch* though11:15
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chem|stgrml11:15
TomaszDheh, we're never getting anything opened in m511:15
chem|stso now my contacts from sms dialog are gone...11:15
StskeepsTomaszD: on hardware level a bunch of stuff is, but ok11:16
EdLinchem|st, I think grml (grml.org) linux comes with Nethack, to tie this all togeather. ;-)11:16
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TomaszDStskeeps, what about m4?11:16
chem|stEdLin: ;)11:16
TomaszDonce I saw meego emerge I knew it would be bad news for legacy as everyone jumps ship to the new shiny thing11:16
StskeepsTomaszD: working on the hardware side and kernel still in my free time11:17
TomaszDand nobody is going to convince me that, hadn't meego been created and maemo 6 released instead, that things would have been *any* different11:17
Stskeepsmeego does change things a lot, but :shrug:11:17
* Stskeeps goes shower and ponders to go for a bike ride11:18
TomaszDso the openness of meego prevents maemo 5 components to be opened. Because had there been an m6 equal in openness to m5, things would have been sooo different11:19
DuckBootStskeeps: I'm a hacker/poweruser/whatnot - I like to tune my desktop/mobile to exactly fit my needs - Do MeeGo let me do that? (Just wondering)11:19
DuckBootBlargh11:19
TomaszDthis is a burned bridges strategy, or in other words "ohh shiny"11:20
StskeepsDuckBoot: yes11:20
DuckBootStskeeps: Oh - Nice - Then I will atleast have a go at it.11:20
StskeepsDuckBoot: i mean, i made a frankenmix of IVI ux and handset ux11:21
Stskeeps.. on a n810!11:21
kerioTomaszD: ADD marketing11:21
TomaszDheh11:21
DuckBootStskeeps: That's was really The feature of Maemo/N900 that caught my attention, and made me spend more money on a cellphone than I ever had.11:22
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kerioDuckBoot: and we're nowhere near maxing it out11:23
StskeepsDuckBoot: well, if you want a 'varedeklaration' on meego/n900, we have these blobs: SGX (3d acceleration libs), BME (battery management) and wl1251 firmware and bluetooth chip firmware.. rest is open to tinker with11:23
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keriorapuyama could run the whole phone by itself, the led chip is a tiny cpu with storage11:23
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Ford_PrefectStskeeps: and the GSM modem parts?11:24
DuckBoot^^ What he said11:25
StskeepsFord_Prefect: our goal is for entire linux side to be open in telephony stack - only thing that's under doubt is some algorithms for voice, rest is going into pulseaudio/libcmtspeech/ofono11:25
StskeepsFord_Prefect: people used the work by our effort to get 3g data under nitdroid, for instance.11:26
CorsacI think he asked about the baseband :)11:26
Ford_PrefectStskeeps: ah, I thought you mean the maemo511:26
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Stskeepsthe obsolete stack11:26
Stskeeps:P11:26
Ford_Prefects/mean/meant11:26
Ford_Prefect:)11:26
Stskeepsif you mean whatever rapuyama runs, that's a mystery even for me11:26
Stskeepsbut doesn't affect linux side11:26
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javeI want to port the sbagen binaural beat application to n900. which sound stack does n900 use?11:27
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keriojave: pulseaudio/alsa11:27
javeah nice11:27
kerionot really ._.11:28
javeno?11:28
Ford_Prefect<giggle>11:28
lcukmorning guys and gals \o11:28
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DuckBootaudio in Linux is not even close to nice.11:28
Ford_PrefectSomeone should measure how often the same flaming/trollery/bashing happens in a given day11:29
kerios/audio/pulseaudio/11:29
keriojackd is fine11:29
javeI'm coming from openmoko so everything is nice11:29
DuckBootjackd is PAIN11:29
kerioDuckBoot: but epic11:29
* Ford_Prefect grabs some popcorn11:29
DuckBootkerio: epic PAIN - Yes - that I can agree on11:30
keriopulseaudio would be better if it worked11:30
javelol11:30
javeanyway, my n900 is mostly more stable than my fedora desktop11:30
kerioit's a cpu hog :(11:30
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TiagoTiagoisn't some stuff regarding the GSM modem also be closed 'cause of laws?11:30
kerioTiagoTiago: rapuyama will probably be closed forever11:31
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kerioit doesn't really matter11:31
kerioalthough it *does* wake the phone more than it needs to11:31
TiagoTiagowould a "this breaks warranty" be enough to comply with the law?11:32
TermanaN900That has nothing to do with it11:33
Ford_Prefectjave: it uses /dev/dsp? :/11:33
Ford_Prefectit == sbagen11:34
TermanaN900The FCC regulates things harshly, and they dont want people adjusting the modem broadcasting power (or w/e)11:34
Ford_PrefectStill, you can probably run it on the phone with padsp or such11:34
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TiagoTiagoOk, how about a Warning along the lines "please obey the local regulations regarding broadcast power etc, or you will go to jail, not to mention void your warranty" ?11:36
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TiagoTiagoDon't headphones come with warnings about not setting the volume too loud?11:37
TermanaN900Its not up to Nokia. If they want to sell in the US, they have to obey US FCC regulations. Same for regulations in other places11:38
EdLinTiagoTiago, what did you say?11:38
Ford_PrefectThe FCC would probably look at any relaxation of the status quo as an attempt by the phone manufacturer to tacitly encourage violation11:38
TiagoTiagolol11:38
lcukso it looks like qole got meego handset running inside a chroot :)11:38
lcukhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/4887457976/#/photos/qole2/4887457976/lightbox/11:38
Ford_PrefectNice! :)11:38
TiagoTiagoIf the device is meant to be sold worldwide, putting local limitations in hardware would make it more expensive11:39
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lcuko_O11:39
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lcukwhat an awesome mail11:41
lcukCreate delicious fuel for your galactic adventures! May the Force be with you!(TM)11:41
TiagoTiagolol11:41
DuckBoot\o/11:41
lcukExplore the Galaxy with More Star Wars™ Kitchen Gear11:41
lcukMillennium Falcon™ and Vader's TIE Fighter™ Sandwiches11:41
javeFord_Prefect: I ported sbagen to alsa11:41
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lcukMake every lunch an adventure with our11:41
lcukSandwich Cutters. Transform your Padawan11:41
lcukJedi’s favorite sandwich into a Millennium11:41
lcukFalcon™ or Vader’s TIE Fighter™ with our11:41
lcukexclusive tools.11:41
lcuk:D11:41
lcukthat is class11:42
DuckBootlcuk: URL?11:42
lcukspam mail11:42
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lcukhttp://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/star-wars-lunch-box-sandwich-cutter/?bnrid=3102184&cm_ven=E3&cm_cat=EDM&cm_pla=0813_Starwars&cm_ite=Bakesilo_cutters&cm_em=liquid@gmail.com11:42
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lcukthing is, you need to cut sandwiches with a light sabre11:42
TiagoTiagolol11:43
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TiagoTiago"the n900 is like a dog.11:43
TiagoTiagoif you don't want to spend time for it (to make it better) it maybe the wrong device for you."11:43
Lynoureheh11:43
JaffaStskeeps: Thanks.11:44
lcukTiagoTiago, don't11:44
TiagoTiago?11:44
lcukthe n900 is NOT like a dog11:44
kwtmTiagoTiago: Hey, they didn't say that in the ads before I bought it....11:44
lcukcontext TiagoTiago : https://twitter.com/lcuk/status/2102008741211:44
TiagoTiagois it more like a cat, pretty awesome, but only when it feels like it?11:45
alteregoTiagoTiago: only talks to you when it needs feeding :P11:45
TiagoTiagolmao11:45
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th3hateumount: /: device is busy.11:47
th3hatehow to know what's using it?11:47
DuckBootlsof11:47
th3hateprints like 200 processes11:48
th3hatehow to know which one11:48
StskeepsJaffa: just to explain the situation a little better re my role11:48
DuckBootlsof | grep <path>11:48
Robot101you can't usually unmount /11:48
Robot101if you have any processes running...11:49
th3hatei need to partition the hardisk..11:49
DuckBootBut if you are trying to umount /, then you are up into you neck11:49
Robot101you need to mount a new / and then do pivot_root to swap them11:49
romenHow do I access third level on my N900 keyboard?11:49
DuckBootth3hate: Get a live distro11:49
DuckBootth3hate: run it from a CD/DVD11:49
JaffaStskeeps: Matches my understanding, but good to get it written down11:49
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DuckBootth3hate: repartition11:49
romen(e.g. the æ on the Scandinavian keyboard)11:50
th3hateso no way to umount / ?11:50
DuckBootth3hate: Nope11:50
th3hatewithout running another live distro11:50
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Robot101if you have a new rootfs mounted you can use pivot_root, but to have / free to unmount you'd need no running programs - so how would you run unmount? :P11:51
th3hate*sadface*11:51
Robot101generally you can't partition a live system, but there are a few tools / filesystems that allow it11:52
th3hatei partitioned hardisk for windows and ubuntu half by half11:52
th3hate250/250 gb11:52
romenand by the way you should unomount anything that is under / to be able to unmount /, don't you?11:52
Robot101anyway - it sounds like you should go to #ubuntu11:52
th3hateok11:52
jacekowskilazy umount11:52
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th3hatewhat's that?11:53
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jacekowskiman mount11:53
th3hatehow to do it?11:53
Robot101jacekowski: uh... its not going to help11:54
TiagoTiagothe N900 doesn't got man does it?11:54
TiagoTiagoi mena, builtin11:54
Robot101th3hate: seriously, you can't unmount /. you wouldn't be able to run anything afterwards. like, the partition tool.11:54
Robot101th3hate: you need to take a different approach - and this isn't relevant to #maemo so go to #ubuntu11:55
th3hateok thanks11:55
th3hatealready there11:55
romencoming back to #maemo: how do I input the æ character on the scandinavian keyboard layout?11:55
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lcukromen, which key would you replace?11:57
jacekowskiRobot101: you can umount /11:57
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jacekowskiRobot101: prepare tmpfs with required tools11:57
EdLinlcuk, the N900 in Scandanavian countries uses the arrow keys11:57
jacekowskiRobot101: and then pivot_root or that kind of thing11:57
Robot101jacekowski: yes, see earlier when I said that11:58
th3hatei have mint virtualbox running on windows, can i resize ubuntu's partition from there?11:58
Robot101jacekowski: but, really, its not what this guy needs to do11:58
lcukromen, EdLin http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?t=3593111:58
jacekowskiwhat is he trying to do?11:58
lcukheh @ old link11:58
Robot101th3hate: you need to not ask about ubuntu and windows in #maemo11:58
DuckBootjacekowski: Resize /11:58
jacekowskion maemo?11:58
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Robot101jacekowski: no, ubuntu...11:59
jacekowskiwell, you can do it online11:59
Robot101god I hate this channel sometimes11:59
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jacekowskimodify partition table11:59
jacekowskithen reboot to cause reread11:59
jacekowskiand resize filesystem11:59
jacekowskiand almost all linux filesystem can grow online12:00
romenlcuk: scandinavian keyboard has a key with (ä æ ?) replacing the  Up Arrow of the US layout. With no modifier I get the ä, with the "blue arrow" the ?, how to get the æ ?12:00
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jacekowskii used to have linux on LVM212:00
lcukromen, that thread has a load of pointers for changing key layouts, but not a specific one for your exact key, have a read and see12:00
jacekowskiwith just minimal partition for / with all lvm tools in case it goes wrong + kernel12:00
fralsromen: change to norweigan/danish instead of fi/se?12:00
jacekowskieverything else could be resized online12:00
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jacekowskilvextend -L+10G /dev/vg/home; resize_reiserfs /dev/vg/home12:01
romenI'm not trying to change anything, just trying to understand how to reach the 3rd character of that layout12:01
lcukand jacekowski don't you know how to listen.  go with th3hate into #ubuntu and continue this12:01
th3hateit's ok i figured it out12:01
romen@lcuk, @frals12:01
th3hateYou can boot from an iso file without burning it to disk with grub2, with a distribution that supports loading completely to RAM, and resize from there.12:01
jacekowskilcuk: listening to other people is not something i do very well12:02
lcukyeah we know jacekowski - but that does nothing to raise peoples impression of you12:02
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fralsromen: pretty sure thats how you do it as afaiu its mostly a cost saving issue to print all nordic layouts on same hwkb12:05
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fralssince if you have ö you wont use the danish one etc12:06
romenfrals: oh, I didn't figured out it was just a cost saving issue, thanks!12:06
fralsnote thats just how i perceive it, i might be completlyy wrong :p12:06
romenfrals: anyway when you start modifying the keymap you have four "level" for each key, one without modifier, one with "shift", one with "blue arrow", what is the last one?12:07
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fralsno idea12:08
TiagoTiagoshift+Fn?12:08
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chem|sthow may I trigger population of the sms's dialog for contacts?12:12
romenTiagoTiago: I feel very dumb now xD thanks anyway xD12:14
TiagoTiagomy guess was correct?12:15
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lcuklol12:15
romenTiagoTiago: quite sure xD12:15
TiagoTiagocool :)12:15
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* EdLin is installing easy-mer on his N81012:17
TiagoTiagoDo you know if PlasmaPong can be ported to the N900 with decent performance?12:18
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lcukTiagoTiago, unknown until you try it!12:18
lcukif you have scratchbox give it a go12:18
lcukyou might surprise yourself and make a hit out of it  :D12:18
TiagoTiagolol12:19
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TiagoTiagoi don't think i have the knowledge for porting stuff yet12:19
TiagoTiagoi couldn't even get this python thingy running without assistance12:19
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chem|stanyone?12:32
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lcukchem|st, hmm12:33
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lcukfrals, didn't you look for similar at some point?12:33
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chem|stlcuk: I don't have contacts within conversations for SMS (the rest is to test just do a backup before I go further)12:34
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chem|stthe question is how is this stored and how is it updated so I may do it by hand and have a look later what went wrong12:35
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lcukchem|st, then IDK12:38
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* nid0 beats ovi suite with a hammer and cries12:39
lcukStskeeps, so potential for a new Maemo distmaster12:39
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=784443#post78444312:39
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lcukif there is one, it should be someone with passion for Maemo and understanding of the complexities of open/closed side of things12:41
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khertan_Hi !12:43
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MohammadAG51grr, osso-xterm not starting12:44
X-Fadekhertan_: Hi, sorry I missed your pm last time.12:44
khertan_X-Fade: hi X-Fade ... no problem12:44
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Stskeepslcuk: and unemployed..12:44
TermanaN900lcuk, if you read what quim said, he basically said there wouldnt be another one, because the resources would be better put towards MeeGo12:45
khertan_This was for talking about "packaging" and maemo repository ...12:45
khertan_X-fade: This was for talking about "packaging" and maemo repository ...12:45
crashanddiedid I miss something?12:45
* MohammadAG51 heard packaging12:45
TermanaN900crashanddie, Stskeeps got the sack for his late night partying!12:46
lcukStskeeps, why does the unemplyed bit matter?12:46
TermanaN900:P kidding12:46
Stskeepslcuk: cos there's probably many people that match but who would be unavailable.12:46
MohammadAG51TermanaN900, fu, thought you were being serious12:46
crashanddielcuk: I think he's implying it's a full-time job12:46
lcukoffer enough money to make it worthwhile and you could hire the pope if wanted12:46
Stskeepsand you'd have to be insane to do it with the current attacks on anyone that tries to make a difference12:47
nid0I would think knowing to avoid muppets on tmo would be requirement one of the job12:48
TermanaN900lcuk, some people might even do it for free12:48
TermanaN900why would it be a requirement to be paid?12:48
lcukTermanaN900, of course you are right, but how would an unpaid person be able to travel to get involved with the people necessary12:49
nid0well, theres a difference between "paid" and "expenses covered"12:49
StskeepsMohammadAG51: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=784443&postcount=3212:49
SpeedEvillcuk: Riding the rails!12:49
lcukand Stskeeps you have managed the maemo distmaster role alongside all your activities for a while ;)12:49
TermanaN900well, i suppose if Nokia wants them to travel, they would cover that. but the main job could be unpaid12:50
lcukor is that what quim is saying12:50
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lcukTermanaN900, that would be worse12:53
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Stskeepsmorn achipa12:54
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TermanaN900lcuk, how would that be worse?12:54
lcukcan you imagine having to distract quim or others to clear all expenses as required12:54
achipamorn Stskeeps12:55
lcukfrom past experience that is messy and slow and unemployed person would usually not be able to make the outlays to allow them to expense later12:55
TermanaN900isnt that what happens anyway? I doubt the maemo.org team are paying for any travel required out of their salery12:55
Stskeepsachipa: since you're on council too, this might be a good read to explain a little more about my role currently, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=784443&postcount=3212:55
lcukdo you know many unemployed people with a credit card?12:55
TermanaN900who even said anything about unemployment?12:56
DuckBootlcuk: Apparently to many unemployed ppl have Credit Cards.12:56
TermanaN900i just said some people would become distmaster for free. I didnt say they would quit their jobs to do it12:56
achipaStskeeps: council ? what council ? (feeble attempt at a joke)12:56
lcukTermanaN900, that makes more sense, apologies mixing with what Stskeeps said :)12:57
Stskeepsachipa: :P12:57
achipaStskeeps: I read that yesterday and (at least thought :) ) I understood that12:57
achipaStskeeps: or do you wish me/us to explain this to someone or ?12:57
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Stskeepsachipa: nah, but i guess the essence is that i really don't function as distmaster anymore and has moved on to meego to help give people a future there..12:58
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Stskeeps(professionally)12:59
achipaStskeeps: yes, the naming might be a bit awkward wrt to the current situation12:59
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Stskeepsthings have been awkward since meego got announced12:59
achipaStskeeps: they'be been awkward like forever, with meego they just got VERY awkward :)13:00
Stskeepsif anything, i can make sure we have a proper OS for our devices that's open :)13:00
keriosomeone should enter the nokia hq and release all the sources13:01
TiagoTiagoto Wikileaks?13:02
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keriosure, why not13:03
Stskeepsbut basically it bends down to that i won't be referring to myself as distmaster or perform the roles of this from now on. i am still playing around with meego on n8x0 as i hate having useless devices in my house, though.13:03
kerioor a bigass torrent13:04
kerionokia.tar.gz13:04
kerioi want meego on my n90013:04
kerio._.13:04
TiagoTiagoI thought it was already avaiable, but not usuable as the main os13:04
TermanaN900kerio, you'll get it, if you have patience13:04
keriolet me rephrase that13:05
kerioi want a meego that doesn't suck on my n90013:05
Stskeepskerio: you and me both.13:05
MohammadAG51i want a meego that uses dpkg on my N900 :P13:06
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kerioMohammadAG51: that's what i said13:06
kerioa meego that doesn't suck13:06
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TiagoTiagowhy they decided to ditch deb?13:06
keriobecause they were *really* high on drugs13:06
Ford_PrefectBecause rpm is our saviour13:06
MohammadAG51to annoy users?13:06
keriothat's the only reason i can think of13:07
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alteregoBecause MeeGo uses Moblin based image creation tools which are geared to rpm13:08
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chem|stwe need someone who just quit with nokia and is still working there... as a col. of my bro said lately after he quit his job.."meetings? I don't go to meetings anymore... what will they do? Fire me?" LOL13:08
fralsbecause really, does it really matter if its .deb or .rpm?13:08
chem|stfrals: yes13:09
alteregoI don't really care anymore.13:09
Ford_PrefectShould've just used portage13:09
alteregoI'd prefer .deb, as I'm used to it, but I don't really care, it's the programs I care about13:09
MohammadAG51frals rpm is just f'd up13:09
keriofrals: it does13:09
fralsMohammadAG51: deb is fucked from where im standing :D13:09
MohammadAG51i checked an rpm archive some time ago13:09
TiagoTiagois there some sort of translator from one type to the other?13:09
kerioMohammadAG51: yum install apt4rpm && apt-get remove yum13:09
alteregoTiagoTiago: yes13:10
MohammadAG51it doesn't store descrtiption13:10
MohammadAG51or deps13:10
chem|stTiagoTiago: aliens!13:10
MohammadAG51kerio, hmm, yum-my13:10
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kerioi'll stick to meego/harmattan13:10
chem|stdamn hell!13:10
chem|stok I am done with anything what could trigger a population of the contact's dialog within sms... any further ideas?13:11
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fralsa what of what?13:12
fralscontacts dialog within sms?13:13
* MohammadAG51 slaps chem|st ^13:13
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chem|stty, I am just in between 70k lines of delphi my phone and a cup'o'coffee13:15
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chem|stwhen I tap new sms in conversations I cant type a name for auto lookup neither can I select any contacts from the "To" button, list is empty13:16
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chem|stwell I am able to type the name but it tells no known contact13:17
chem|stto be a bit more precise13:17
rmrfchikduh. My devices start to lose Call Log :(13:18
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fralsweird, i had that when hooking into the abook widget in fmms chem|st13:19
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frals... the solution was to throw an unhandled exception in my code, dont ask me why...13:19
chem|stfrals: that sounds fantastic!13:19
keriohaha what13:19
chem|st.oO(do I throw up now or later? sooner or later I will....)13:20
chem|stfrals: you got any idea how I can trigger anything useful?13:20
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pigeonhmm, is there a limit on the number of photos shown in the n900 default image viewer?13:41
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pigeoni took some new photos and they just won't show up there.13:41
pigeonbut i can see it in the file manager.13:41
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X-FadeMohammadAG51: ping?13:45
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TiagoTiagohow many pictures do you have there already?13:46
chem|stpigeon: thats a tracker problem13:47
pigeonTiagoTiago: only 650 in fact.13:47
xnt14[N900]can anyone tell me how much battery life I can expect from my N900 in 2.5 mode with a data connection + connected to irc?13:47
chem|stxnt14[N900]: what do you mean with dataconnection?13:48
pigeonchem|st: ah right, cleaning up the tracker files now...13:48
xnt14[N900]chem|st, a Edge connection13:48
pigeonthanks13:48
girishris there like a scratchbox compile farm or something :) ? where i can submit stuff for compilation and get the binaries out13:49
chem|stxnt14[N900]: so no data transfer, you mean connected via edge loggedin to some irc net13:49
MohammadAG51X-Fade, pong13:49
xnt14[N900]chem|st, yes13:49
chem|stxnt14[N900]: at least +10h13:49
X-FadeMohammadAG51: Perl-modules will get optified.13:50
xnt14[N900]chem|st, k, thanks13:50
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chem|stwell lets say at least +6h as it strongly depends on your signal13:50
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chem|sthi torsten13:50
MohammadAG51X-Fade, yay, thanks! :D13:50
chem|stxnt14[N900]: bad reception can drag you down in less than 6hours13:51
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chem|stbut that even happend to me with other phones13:51
xnt14[N900]chem|st, hmm, luckily , I have good reception in my general area...13:52
chem|stdepending on your usage it should consume about 150mA as you use, gives you at least 8hours13:53
chem|stthe other way round13:54
fralschem|st: sorry, dunno how to make it happen in a proper app :(13:54
chem|stfrals: no proper app... I want to kick its ass from behind13:54
xnt14[N900]chem|st, ok13:54
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chem|stwhat happens if I reinstall osso-abook? lets see13:55
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chem|stnothing...13:56
chem|stthere has to be a trigger somewhere13:57
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xnt14[N900]hmm14:01
xnt14[N900]the bus just rode through a dead zone -_-14:01
ieatlinta dead zone on gsm in the US... no way..14:02
psycho_oreospanic?14:04
MohammadAG51chem|st, purge!14:04
TiagoTiagoperhaps some transformer blew up and a minor EMP affected the signal?14:05
chem|stMohammadAG51: which of this daemons?14:05
lcukachipa, Stskeeps on the thread about distmaster I have made a post, I would like your input and hopefully support about it :)14:05
chem|stabook?14:06
achipalcuk: looking into it14:06
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xnt14_...14:07
xnt14_another one -_-14:07
xnt14_but full bars  now :)14:07
xnt14_ieatlint,  T-Mobile 3G, NY btw14:07
xnt14_outside the city also14:07
xnt14_ugh, wtf14:07
xnt14_1 bar again14:07
ieatlintwell, if it's like's the west coast, it's hit or miss, but better than att14:08
xnt14_might be the bus too, feels like a faraday cage14:08
xnt14_walls made out of metal14:08
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Guest17808...14:09
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TiagoTiagoWhat about the electrical wiring of the bus?14:12
xnt14[N900]_TiagoTiago, true... iunno about that...14:12
MohammadAG51how do i turn wifi off?14:13
TiagoTiagosome poorly maintained fluerescent bulbs might be causing sporadic intereference, no?14:13
MohammadAG51unloading the module is enough right14:13
xnt14[N900]_MohammadAG51, offline mode?14:13
ShadowJKifconfig wlan0 down14:13
MohammadAG51xnt14[N900]_, separately14:13
ShadowJKor wmaster0 down14:13
MohammadAG51ShadowJK, still uses power though right?14:14
xnt14[N900]_MohammadAG51, ah, k14:14
xnt14[N900]_TiagoTiago, possibly14:14
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ShadowJKMohammadAG51, not more than module unloaded I'd think?14:14
MohammadAG51so it uses power even when the module is unloaded?14:15
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chem|stMohammadAG51: let me check that14:16
ShadowJKwhenever the wifi bug has hit, doing ifconfig wlan0 down has reduced consumption in standy from minimum of 230mA to a minimum of 16mA for the entire device, so I'd say it's "good enough"14:16
lcukMohammadAG51, xnt14[N900]_ and anyone else, could you review this post about the maemo distmaster http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=785148#post78514814:16
xnt14[N900]_lcuk, k14:16
lcukand get adding some thanks if it makes sense14:16
chem|stShadowJK: the 16mA I get when I turn of wifi... means disconnect14:16
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MohammadAG51lcuk, k, in a bit14:17
lcukachipa, \o14:17
MohammadAG51ShadowJK, what about doing both?14:17
lcukdoh14:17
MohammadAG51ifconfig down and modprobe -r14:17
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achipalcuk, \o (I guess :) )14:17
lcuksorry achipa :P i mixed up attilas thanks with you :P14:18
achipalcuk: if that is a joke I need more coffee :)14:19
lcukachipa, no I saw a thanks on my post and waved back at you before realising it wasnt you :P14:19
* achipa is happy he was able to trick meego.com so he didn't get a split personality (again)14:19
ShadowJKMohammadAG51, I'd be surprised if the module has code in the unload section that puts chip in lower power state, and that that code wouldn't be used when wifi is in unused state14:20
chem|stwierd... turning of wifi (disconnect) I get down to 7-9mA, going to offline mode I am stuck +17mA14:20
chem|stok +11mA not 17mA14:20
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* achipa 's mental processes threw an Exception parsing lcuk's statement14:21
psycho_oreoschem|st, could it be that the wireless is still scanning in background?14:21
lcukachipa, same here sorry just have more coffee14:21
chem|stpsycho_oreos: in offline-mode?14:22
chem|stMohammadAG51: no difference between rmmod and no rmmod14:23
chem|stat least not on short notice (minutes)14:23
psycho_oreoschem|st, yeah, I'm not too particularly sure what you meant by offline mode, as in ifconfig wlan0 down? and there's a possibility that the interface is still managed (and probably not dedicated management) by the wireless manager thingy14:23
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* achipa curses at the misguided individual who registered on internettablettalk with his nick somewhere in 200714:24
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xnt14[N900]_lcuk, done14:26
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chem|stpsycho_oreos: first attempt was just hit disconnect and it went down to 7mA, second was turning on offline-mode, it went up to at least above 11mA, going the way back to rmmod it stayed at 13mA going back in online-mode it stayed at 12mA, modprobe stayed at 12mA...14:27
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MohammadAG51ifconfig it is14:28
chem|stMohammadAG51: what do you mean14:28
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psycho_oreoschem|st, still don't understand what you mean by offline mode, you mean the device not connected to mobile/cellular network at all?14:30
psycho_oreosand disconnect being ifconfig wlan0 down?14:30
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xnt14[N900]_crashanddie, kya hal hai? (iunno, was bored... :P)14:31
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kerioi use wifiswitcher, is that not enough? :(14:39
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fralshmm i wonder if i can apply the same hack as they did for "share via im" for "share via mms"14:40
keriofrals: share *what* via mms?14:41
keriolow-res photos?14:41
kerio:/14:41
lcukfrals, see albanc14:41
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Venemohi guys14:42
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fralskerio: yes, sharing photos is one of the use cases of mms14:42
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keriosharing *low-res* photos14:42
fralsi wouldnt consider 5mpix low res, but each to his own14:42
kerioyou can't share a 5mp photo via mms :/14:43
lcukfrals, http://alban.apinc.org/blog/2010/07/30/send-files-to-your-contacts-on-your-n900/14:43
albancfrals, do you want to do that in your application? we would need some kind of coordination to know where to place your button, and where to place Monorail's "Share via IM" button14:44
fralskerio: i can... :(14:44
fralslcuk: ta14:44
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fralsalbanc: if its possible without messing up the "Share via IM" it would be neat14:44
albancfrade, I guess the GtkTable increases automatically, although I didn't test it14:45
keriodoes monorail work with msn/pecan?14:45
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kerioand skype?14:45
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albanckerio, For MSN, it works with telepathy-butterfly 0.5.12 and Papyon 0.4.9. But none of these versions are packaged yet14:46
albancit does not work for skype14:46
fralsalbanc: ok, ill have a look at it when i find some time, cheers :)14:46
BCMMfrals: high-res photos over MMS possible, but might not work if it's a cheap phone receieving it, right?14:47
keriowhy would you use a MMS to send a photo to a phone that can receive emails?14:47
fralsBCMM: yes, it gets lost in transit when sending to phones not supporting it or if your carrier hates you, which is usually the case14:47
albancWhen the telepathy connection manager implements File Sharing, the feature will be automatically added in Monorail: it tests the capabilities of your contacts correctly14:47
fralskerio: because MMS != email14:48
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fralskerio: most people receiving MMS doesnt have push email setup on their phones, at least the ppl i know14:48
fralskerio: hence mms > email for my use case14:48
* frals is getting pretty tired of all the MMS hate :< none forces you to use it!14:49
keriofrals: heh, my carrier sends me a sms when someone sends me an email14:49
keriowhich is exactly how MMS works, but without having to pay extra :D14:49
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fralsi dont pay extra for mms14:50
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kerioyou don't pay extra to send them? :o14:50
kerios/extra /14:50
fralsno14:50
* albanc is thinking of using g_object_set_qdata/g_object_get_qdata on the GtkTable to specify where the next button should be placed. If the qdata is absent, place the button on (2,2) and set the qdata to (2,3) or something. If the qdata is present place the button as specified by the qdata.14:50
chem|stfrals: thats not the case for all ppl I know ;)14:50
albancfrade, does it looks sane to use that to communicate between plugins?14:51
kerioalbanc: kludges over kludges = bad14:51
kerioset up a "standard" way to add buttons there14:51
albancopen sourcing lib sharing-dialog would be better14:51
fralsalbanc: sounds good14:52
albancI am not sure if dpkg-diverts can be done twice14:52
kerionokia: please release the source for libsharing-dialog14:52
kerionokia?14:52
keriohmm, not answering...14:52
pigeoni wonder when they're going to make angry pigs...14:53
albancmaybe we need a component which does the dpkg-diverts and have a better interface to place other buttons?14:53
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albancI'm not sure what is the right thing to do14:54
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lcukalbanc, :) I am writing a request as we speak14:56
lcukyour hackery has shown its possible, but would be 100000000000% better if we could do it cleanly14:56
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kerioalbanc: write a standard wrapper that takes care of that, so if/when it gets opensourced you can just change that instead of having to change every program14:57
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lcukhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1112815:00
povbotBug 11128: Opening the source for Sharing services framework15:00
lcukalbanc, frals and anyone interested in open sharing, please vote on this15:00
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lcukand albanc :) thank you for going through the trouble of working out how to do it even with the closed aspects.  showing open source CAN work around road blocks is important15:02
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fralsbah, HEL subway needs better 3g coverage15:11
E0xin what situation you use 3g ?15:12
CameLinishiiii15:12
keriovoted15:12
E0xi asking because i almost use 2g for almost every time  because the battery drain15:12
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CameLinisheyy anyone! can anyone prove life sucks?15:13
E0xwtf ?15:13
kerioCameLinis: well, P!=NP15:13
kerioif you're into crypto, life doesn't suck15:13
ieatlinthaha15:13
fralsE0x: streaming ;)15:14
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kerioE0x: using the 'net15:14
CameLiniswell no, life full of sucking!15:14
xnt14[N900]kerio, :P15:14
kerio400-500kb/s is not unusual here15:14
kerioi mean, not with my carrier :(15:14
CameLinis You're born, you suck your mother's tits. You get a little older, you suck your girlfriend's tits. You get married, you suck your wife's tits. That's what life is. Life sucks."15:14
keriobut with the main one15:14
CameLinisthen life sucks15:14
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chem|stCameLinis: thats not backwards compatible...15:15
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keriochem|st: unless you get married to your mother15:15
E0xkerio: ?15:16
chem|stkerio: if life sucks I get sucked not me sucking right?15:16
* chem|st is feeling swallowed15:16
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CameLinislol, well, he got a point=x15:17
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ieatlintlife does suck, i've not known anyone with a high IQ who claims otherwise15:17
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E0xbtw i do a desktop switcher , for change desktop/view/workspace without wipe15:17
chem|stieatlint: IQ is bullshit15:17
E0xswipe*15:17
E0xhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=78055315:17
ieatlintchem|st: depends what you think it means15:18
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E0xis a very dirty code and not very good , but "work"15:18
CameLinisChem|St: then whts not bullshit15:18
CameLinis?15:18
lcukandre__, sounds good!15:18
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chem|stieatlint: by definition it is how old your mind is in regard of your real age so it is bullshit in regard of intelligence if you ask for opinion15:19
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CameLiniswell, a young kid can own an adult person..15:20
ieatlinti disagree with your definition of IQ15:20
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CameLinisIQ: ability to shine, when everybody can't?15:20
CameLinismany definitions..15:21
chem|stat the age of 14 I had an IQ of 125, with math 105 language 135 and the others I don't remember, that doesn't mean I am some what genius, it just means I could do stuff an 18 year old is able to do...15:21
ieatlintheh, either way, my point is not about defining IQ, but that above average intelligent people are prone to unhappier lives15:21
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ieatlintchem|st: so does a person aged 50 with a 125 IQ have the mind of a 60 year old?15:22
ieatlintthat makes no sense15:22
CameLiniswell but intelligent people got their limit15:22
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ieatlintintelligence != smart15:22
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chem|stieatlint: true15:22
ieatlintintelligence is more linked to potential than anything else15:22
ieatlinton a related note, i have whiskey15:23
CameLiniswell, not neccessary..15:23
CameLinisif u mind got tired, u can't solve things..15:24
CameLinisthis means u not intelligent?15:24
nid0IQ age-equivilence is generally accepted to level off by about 16, using ratio iq above that age is essentially meaningless, which is why deviation iq is the norm method these days15:24
ieatlintno, it means you're tired15:24
CameLinisthen about what u said; ntelligence is more linked to potential than anything else?15:25
ieatlintheh, all i can say is that i spend 80% of my time dealing with people with an IQ over 120, but i'm forced to deal with someone whose IQ is in the upper 70s... and wow15:25
ieatlintblissful ignorance is only blissful when it's a choice15:26
ihme-TTilusany other way to make the cursor visible than the left swipe trick in browser?15:26
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chem|stihme-TTilus: nope15:27
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nid0fwiw, that left swipe isnt a trick, its just "the way" to make the cursor visible.15:27
albancfrals, kerio : 2 packages (monorail for file transfers and mms) dpkg-diverting the same lib sharing-dialog cannot work... so, yes we need a better standard wrapper to have both sharing via IM and MMS...15:27
chem|stCameLinis: yeah that is exactly what they said after the test "Your potential skills for ... are, with an influence of ..."15:28
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TTilusnid0: "trick" could be misleading term, yes15:28
chem|stor with a weightening... cant remember the exact words... but some alike15:29
TTilusthe fact that the browser is capable of making the cursor visible brought up my hopes that it might me controllable in some other ways too ... which i prolly could use with x2x15:29
xnt14[N900]chem|st, btw, battery at 856mAh/68% holding up good so far :)15:30
th3hateAny idea whats causing this problem:15:31
th3hatehttp://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3228/screenshot2010081315261.png15:31
th3hatei did apt-get update and i still get it15:32
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CameLinishmm15:32
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CameLinisthere is a problem tho =x15:32
th3hateORLY?15:32
CameLinisyeah, u can't see?15:32
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th3hatenah im blind15:33
CameLinisno wonder, that's why u asked.15:33
th3hateasked?15:33
CameLinisyeah?15:34
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th3hateasked for you getting kicked :P?15:34
th3hateyep15:34
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th3hate!kick CameLinis15:34
CameLiniswtf with u15:34
th3hateinfobot kick CameLinis15:34
* infobot kicks CameLinis15:34
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th3hateowned :P15:34
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th3hateinfobot burry CameLinis alive15:35
olihi, can anyone remind me how to set volume in maemo diablo?15:35
CameLinislet me guess, when u get bored, u talk to the bot?15:35
kerio~botsnack15:35
infobotkerio: :)15:35
oliit was something like echo 80 > /sys/....15:35
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keriohey, there *is* a problem with the microusb connector15:36
kerioyay15:36
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keriohopefully i can get a full replacement with the glued connector15:37
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kerioMohammadAG: why didn't you tell me that the faulty microusb port was a recognized problem?15:39
* kerio feels comforted15:39
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MohammadAGo_O15:39
kerioi asked a lot during these days15:40
kerioand nobody told me it wasn't my fault ._.15:40
kerioi felt guilty towards my cute little n90015:40
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MohammadAGkerio, it is your fault15:42
kerio:'(15:42
MohammadAGactually, it's frals's15:42
kerioyay15:43
* MohammadAG blames frals15:43
keriowait, he came here and broke my microusb port?15:43
keriothat bastard!15:43
TiagoTiagoTTilus: I use this script that adds a icon in the app menu called MouseCursor , I'll get you the name of the package in a sec15:43
MohammadAGyeah, he also started WWII15:43
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rmrfchikdamn.. I'm afraid of getting usb problem. As you in civil world can't get support, what it will in russia?15:43
kerioMohammadAG: :O so that's where Hitler hid15:43
kerioi knew that suicide thing was fake15:43
MohammadAGno worries, in soviet russia, USB ports break you15:43
rmrfchikI suppose nokia stuff just shoot customers15:43
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xnt14[N900]lol15:43
* TiagoTiago is frozen picturing giant sized USB charger raping people until their socket falls off15:44
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MohammadAGO_O15:44
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xnt14[N900]'_'15:44
kerio>.<15:44
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TiagoTiagoT.T15:45
rmrfchiknokia is nightmare... WAKE ME UP15:45
MohammadAGWake me up inside15:46
MohammadAGsomehow, I think no one here knows that song15:46
CameLinishow to wake u up?:p15:46
TiagoTiagoEvanescence?15:46
CameLinishmm, save it..?15:46
CameLinisyep.15:46
MohammadAGTiagoTiago, ty for proving me wrong, though I hate all their other songs xD15:47
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CameLinisinside the fire <3?15:47
* MohammadAG goes back to Bullet for my Valentine15:47
TiagoTiagoI prefer My Imortal15:47
MohammadAGI suppose if there's nothing on topic, this isn't off topic?15:48
th3hatewhat was the topic again?15:48
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CameLinismohammad, where u from?15:48
MohammadAGMars15:49
xnt14[N900]lol15:49
CameLinisheaven :D?15:49
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rmrfchikINCEPTION15:49
xnt14[N900]CameLinis, where are _you_ from?15:49
MohammadAGJerusalem, PS/IL :P15:49
CameLinishehe Palestine15:49
xnt14[N900]lol15:49
TiagoTiago?15:49
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xnt14[N900]NY,US here, pakistani-american15:49
CameLinisxnt, why? u wanna marry me?15:49
TiagoTiagoI missed the joke, could someone care to explain to me please?15:50
xnt14[N900]CameLinis, lol, no. just cause you asked MohammadAG :P15:50
CameLinisno need, u wont get it15:50
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CameLinislol xnt i know :p15:50
xnt14[N900]CameLinis, tab completion?15:51
xnt14[N900]its a tad annoying, my notifications don't work...15:51
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rmrfchikTiagoTiago: One bear walked in forset. Saw the burning car and sat in there. And burned.15:51
TiagoTiagoi see15:52
TiagoTiagoa quick question, in which folder/file are the shortcuts in the app menu stored?15:53
MohammadAG/usr/share/applications/hildon15:53
MohammadAG/usr/share/applications/hildon-home for widgets15:53
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TiagoTiagothanx15:54
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TiagoTiagoTTilus, try:  osso-xterm /usr/bin/togglemouse16:01
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TiagoTiagothat is what the shortcut i mentioned does16:03
TiagoTiagoi'm not sure if it has always been there or if i installed that, i an't find any mouse related thing in the list of stuff to uninstall in  HAM16:04
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TiagoTiagoseems you don't need the osso-xterm part, you can run the togglemouse prog directly16:05
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TiagoTiagoare you still there?16:07
TiagoTiagohm, i can't receive files via skype in the N900?16:08
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MohammadAGTiagoTiago, afaik, no, sadly16:10
lcukMohammadAG, you have been monitoring specific changes made to hildon components a bit more than me - any chance you can put a list together of the different forks and variations16:10
lcukso I can highlight them16:10
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TiagoTiagoTTilus?16:12
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TiagoTiagothe resolution for full wallpapaers  isn't 3200x480?16:19
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xnt14[N900]TiagoTiago, thats for panaromic wallpapers16:19
TiagoTiagoyeah16:19
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TiagoTiagothat's what i meant16:20
TiagoTiagodo i have to split the image or is it supposed to work if i make it that resolotuion?16:20
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MohammadAGwho's interested in making a PS3Trophies.com app?16:25
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MohammadAGlcuk, hmm, I'll check gitorious16:26
E0xwhat is that ( PS3Trophies.com ) ?16:26
lcukMohammadAG, gitorious shows us official ones and can be seen16:27
MohammadAGa site for tracking ps3 trophies, there was a request for an app here, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=59732&page=116:27
MohammadAGtalking to the main site dev, the api will use a pass so the app has to be closed16:27
MohammadAGclosed source that is16:28
GAN900Stskeeps, something makes me thing there wont be budget for somebody to refill the role.16:28
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TTilusTiagoTiago: !16:29
StskeepsGAN900: dunno16:29
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TiagoTiagoit works?16:29
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TTilusTiagoTiago: gonna try when im done eating16:30
TiagoTiagoah, okie16:30
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E0xMohammadAG_: idea for phone control : IM status change16:36
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MohammadAG_E0x, will look into it :)16:38
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GAN900Stskeeps, I can guess.16:46
StskeepsGAN900: guessing never gets anyone everywhere when it comes to money, asking does16:48
Stskeeps:P16:48
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lcukGAN900, as I said to you the other night, it matters whether you market yourself as dead end or not.  I for one will not let 5 years of hard work in the maemo system go into nothingness and think this whole damn community deserves to at least have someone fighting for that16:51
GAN900Stskeeps, last time we asked, the answer was "no".16:51
StskeepsGAN900: for debmaster?16:51
GAN900So I'm not optimistic, although it'll certainly be pursued.16:51
GAN900Yes16:51
E0xovi maps is create using Qt libs right ?16:51
E0xi mean ovi maps app16:51
timelessi think ovi maps is mostly webruntime :)16:52
keriowhat do i have to know regarding the battery indicator and unofficial batteries?16:52
kerioor even just different batteries16:52
keriodoes the battery chip get confused somehow'16:52
kerio?16:52
kerioovi maps sucks ._.16:52
ShadowJKThe chip doesn't, the software does16:52
E0xtimeless: but the gui of settings and that kind of things16:52
E0x?16:52
timelessi think so16:53
E0xkerio: yes maybe but the gui is really good looking16:53
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timelesssome of it might have just been HTML+CSS using Gecko16:53
E0xin that was i thinking , because i saw the QPlaylist app and look a bit the same16:53
timelessthe rest of it was basically a plugin16:53
lcukwith open source, the future is in OUR hands and we determine its future.  no OSS project can die.  I will try to do what I can to allow it to flourish16:53
SpeedEvillcuk: bullshit.16:53
kerioShadowJK: what do i have to do then?16:53
kerioit's a used battery vs a fake battery - which is possibly the worst combination there is, short of using a mugen battery16:54
timelesslcuk: practicing to be a politician?16:54
ShadowJKkerio, so I've seen two behaviours. One is where it displays full until about 15% remaining, at which point it says it's empty "5%". In the other scenario the meter actually moves, but it says empty at 25%, and then shuts down 12 hours later.16:54
SpeedEvillcuk: Open source projects die when they do not keep up with other software for porrting.16:54
SpeedEvillcuk: I can point at a few opensource projects that have died, and would require huge effort to resurrect.16:54
SpeedEvilhttp://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/ulrich/mergemem/16:54
SpeedEvilmergemem - for example.16:55
kerioopen source projects can die easily16:55
SpeedEvilMany other out-of-tree kernel modules.16:55
SpeedEvilEven some in-tree.16:55
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keriotheir codebase can't, though16:55
keriowhich is what matters16:55
GAN900If nobody's there to keep improving the code, of course it'll die.16:55
SpeedEvilIt's really not.16:55
GAN900And that's pretty much where we're at now.16:56
lcukyes timeless - sometimes hearing downbeat bullshit for things we work around makes me :(16:56
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SpeedEvilIf I can only use the app by installing a 1997 linux system - for whatever reason - it's dead.16:56
lcukGAN900, of course, theres plenty of technically capable code there16:56
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lcukthe meego apps should be runnable with some encouragment16:57
SpeedEvilFor example, I have some compressed ext2 filesystems somewhere.16:57
lcukwithout having to change whilst meego OS isnt ready yet16:57
lcukcan incrementally update16:57
SpeedEvilThe compression format changed, and the only way to rrecover them would be to find out which 2.0.? kernel made them.16:57
SpeedEviland build a system16:57
lcukand looking at opera revival16:57
kerioSpeedEvil: but you *can*16:57
keriothat's the point16:57
lcukand all the mods and tweaks made to the already open code16:57
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lcukhell, if someone wanted they could resurrect mer16:58
SpeedEvil'You can' is a most pernicious misconception.16:58
crashanddieIt's like saying "you can cut off your own leg", but really, you wouldn't.16:59
SpeedEvilhttp://cu.nniling.us/644/16:59
SpeedEvilAlso - wtf - I diddn't look at the URL16:59
zashhaha17:00
SpeedEvilhttp://xkcd.com/644/17:00
lcuktimeless, its going to take something to actually try and open the code up, so I might as well practice17:00
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satmdlulz17:00
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lcukSpeedEvil, the difference with maemo is its a live running system with a non insignificant highly adept userbase17:01
SpeedEvilNow, yes.17:02
jophishlcuk, remember that problem I had with g and h turning off the phone?17:02
lcukand we have seen from lots of sides that improvements come and patches float around17:02
SpeedEvilThe userbase may in fact be large enough to be a continuing community.17:02
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GAN900Given unlimited time and unlimited expertise, sure, you can do anything.17:04
keriois there a way to wipe the content of my n900 without using a usb cable?17:04
lcukjophish, hmm no?17:04
GAN900lcuk, rapidly dwindling.17:04
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TiagoTiagoI think i saw it on the forum, or perhaps it was here17:04
TiagoTiagokerio, you want an autodestruct mode?17:05
kerioTiagoTiago: no, i'll just have to give my beloved phone to nokia17:05
kerioand i'd like to wipe it good17:05
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TiagoTiagoah, get rid of porn and unauthorized copies of software and other artwork while leaving no trace that you did that?17:06
lcukGAN900, i would be saying entirely different things had meego actually been a ready to use replacement on our devices17:06
TTilusTiagoTiago: i dont have that /usr/bin/togglemouse17:07
TiagoTiago:(17:07
SpeedEvilkerio: for x in /dev/*;do dd if=/dev/urandom of=$x;done17:07
kerioTiagoTiago: maybe17:07
kerioalso my personal data17:07
kerioSpeedEvil: i bet nokia won't like that17:07
nid0just rm -rf /home/user/MyDocs and reset device/browser to default/clear cache etc? that or write over everything from /dev/urandom if you're real paranoid17:08
jophishlcuk, anyway, I solved the problem. The pins on the battery had become a bit loose, and certain key combinations must have been flexing the phone just so that the - terminal would lose contact17:08
kerionid0: good point17:08
jophishOut of interest, what does the third pin do on the battery?17:08
MohammadAG_umm, isn't there a clear data option in settings?17:08
lcukjophish, o_O wow17:08
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MohammadAG_brb, need to reboot, speakers not working17:08
SpeedEviljophish: irt's little more than a battery present connection17:08
keriojophish: data17:08
X-FadeMohammadAG_: Yes there is.17:08
SpeedEvilit's not data17:08
SpeedEvilIt's a resistor17:08
kerioSpeedEvil: "i'm here" it's data17:09
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lcukjophish, did you bend the pins back in ? o_O17:09
jophishlcuk, yeah, after buying a new battery :/17:09
jophishworks fine now17:09
kerioLOL17:09
lcuklol, at least you have a spare17:09
* lcuk has not heard of that ever being a problem on any device17:10
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jophishTaking an aeroplane journey tomorrow, so useful for that17:10
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lcukGAN900, I would like to allow the Meego handset apps to run individually on maemo.  it will help allow developers to improve those applications17:11
lcukthereby helping everyone17:11
lcukwithout having to give up a nice stable OS to do so17:11
TiagoTiagohow can i find what the package is called if i only have the app menu shortcut?17:11
kerioi bought a unofficial battery + external charger with usb port that hopefully works like the nokia wallcharger - probably not - for 20€ shipped17:11
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nid0TiagoTiago you have the shortcut name?17:12
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TiagoTiagoand the shortcut file17:14
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DrIDKhello! I get something strange on my N900... I m trying to show a color gradient picture in my Qt application, and it looks bad, gradient is not smoothy! Like when you convert a gradient 24 bits to 16 bits17:19
lcukwell, thats to be expected since the x11 is set to 16bit17:20
lcukor 15 or whatever it actually is17:20
TiagoTiagowhy?17:20
lcukmultitude of historical performance reasons lost in time17:20
SpeedEvilIs the hardware display 24?17:20
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timelessno17:21
timelessthis is written on the box..17:21
kerioit's 16?17:22
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TiagoTiagohttp://pastebin.com/7bipRFRL <- the contents of the shortcut file17:22
timelesswell, smoeone's box..17:22
Stskeepsi think the display is actually 24 but 16 performs better..17:23
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TTilusTiagoTiago: looks like bluetooth mouse support pkg has showmouse/hidemouse binaries which the togglemouse supposedly uses17:23
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TTilusTiagoTiago: thanks alot!17:23
TiagoTiagoless bits to send to the GPU?17:23
TiagoTiagocool :)17:24
TiagoTiagocool! *17:24
lcukSpeedEvil, YUV mode shows full colour textures, so much so, when I switch between YUV and RGB I can see gradient steps appear from where smooth ones were visible before17:24
SpeedEvilhttp://pastebin.com/LVbCWDB117:24
SpeedEvilxdpyinfo17:24
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SpeedEvildoes that mean X can do 24?17:24
SpeedEvilIn general - less data moved means less power use.17:24
lcukx11 certainly can, whether all the fixes in place ontop and the compositor etc can is a different issue17:25
SpeedEvilI have one laptop that uses 10% less power when on (at dimmest brightness) with a 4 bit display than a 2417:25
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lcukless data == more speed17:25
crashanddielcuk: how bpp is YUV?17:26
crashanddielcuk: 16?17:26
lcuk2417:26
DrIDKSo look here : http://img26.xooimage.com/files/5/7/a/screenshot-20100813-162200-1f3e3fc.png17:26
lcukbut different pixel layout17:26
lcukless colour pixels17:26
crashanddielcuk: don't you just need to do tone/colour mapping?17:26
crashanddiewell, "just" is maybe the wrong word17:26
SpeedEvilI need to work out how to get xrandr to do non-orthogonal screens.17:26
SpeedEvilIt _should_ be possible.17:26
ShadowJKlcuk, you're not using YV12?17:26
TiagoTiagoI remember back a few Windows versions ago there was some sort of glitch with the drivers that made using 16bpp slower than 24bpp17:26
lcukcrashanddie, for a tiny square of 4 pixels17:27
ShadowJKlcuk, YUY2?17:27
lcukthere are 4 bytes of grey information17:27
kerioDrIDK: that's ugly ._.17:27
SpeedEvilThe manpage says you can. I want a 30 degree offset display on my laptop17:27
lcukand 2 bytes of U and V info17:27
DrIDKkerio:do you have a solution17:27
DrIDK?17:27
lcukShadowJK, I cannot remember the technical name for it I will hunt17:27
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ShadowJKlcuk, well is it planar or packed? :P17:31
lcukShadowJK, the xvideo layer I write to is planar, but the data is transfered t othe LCD from xv using some chunky format - so BOTH17:32
lcuk:P17:32
SpeedEvilIs there a 'simple' way to show an arbitrary colour on the main indicator LED?17:32
SpeedEvilOr is it make a new pattern17:33
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TiagoTiagoI forgot, what's the name of that organisation that defends open source? the big one17:39
Appiahfsf?17:39
xnt14[N900]TiagoTiago, EFF17:39
xnt14[N900]?17:39
xnt14[N900]Electronic Frontier Foundation.17:40
TiagoTiagoIS that the one that is the world referenec for "open source" ?17:40
TiagoTiagoIs*17:40
xnt14[N900]hmm17:41
TiagoTiagoI'm trying to rmember the name of that one that gives a seal of aproval for licenses that are trully free17:41
xnt14[N900]ah17:41
xnt14[N900]osu17:41
xnt14[N900]hmm17:41
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TiagoTiagoit isn't EFF , is it?17:43
xnt14[N900]TiagoTiago, open source initiative - http://www.opensource.org/approval17:43
xnt14[N900]hmm17:43
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TermanaTiagoTiago, OSI licenses17:43
xnt14[N900]Termana, opensource initiative = osi btw17:44
E0xopen source != free software17:44
xnt14[N900]TiagoTiago, no, eff advocates oss and net neutrality17:44
xnt14[N900]etc17:44
xnt14[N900]privacy rights17:44
TiagoTiagofreedom of speech too, no?17:44
Termanaxnt14[N900], I know, but you quicker than me17:44
Termana:P17:44
Termanayou were*17:45
xnt14[N900]TiagoTiago, yes17:45
GAN900crashanddie, on the amphetamines yet?17:45
xnt14[N900]Termana, lol, I'm on an N900 too...17:45
xnt14[N900]ty17:45
TermanaE0x, join us now and share the software, you'll be free hackers you'll be freeeee17:46
TiagoTiagohm, perhaps FSF is the one i'm going for?17:46
TermanaTiagoTiago, the FSF licenses are those that are free software licenses17:46
xnt14[N900]TiagoTiago, for what?17:46
TiagoTiagothe one i'm trying to remember17:46
TiagoTiagohttps://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Free_Software_Foundation17:46
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TermanaOh I scrolled up17:47
Termanathe original question wasn't even about licenses17:47
Termana:P17:47
TiagoTiagolol17:47
TermanaTiagoTiago, are you looking for the organisation that does legalese for the FSF?17:48
TermanaThe Software Freedom Law Center?17:48
TermanaOr what exactly are you defining as defend?17:49
crashanddieGAN900: nope, trying to find a file that is actually a directory, which has a hidden file, which could be named randomly (but we're not sure), and the file(directory)name isn't sure either17:49
crashanddieGAN900: on a production server, where we're also doing our tests17:50
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crashanddie*snif* *snif* What is that I smell? Is grandma baking her nice recipe for disaster again?17:50
TiagoTiagoi'm reading this thread on tmo about a petition for opening Maemo, when i'm finished with the 5 pages i'm gonna psot there that i think it wuold be better to make a "bet" with Nokia , people that want them to open stuff will donate to a fund, and if after N years Nokia hasn't openeed things enough, the money would go to FSF instead17:50
TiagoTiagoid they do open it, they get the money17:51
TiagoTiagoif*17:51
* mgedmin somehow doubts the amount of money in such a fund would be noticeable compared to nokia's usual income17:51
crashanddieTiagoTiago: you really think that a couple thousand dollars makes a difference to a multinational which has a market capitalisation of $33.000.000.000?17:51
TiagoTiagocrashanddie: list all files and fodlers and sort by date? or you don't know when it was created?17:52
keriohey, it's a free couple thousand dollars17:52
crashanddiekerio: you can't actually donate money to a publicly traded company17:52
TiagoTiagoinvest it so it will grow by itself over the years17:52
TermanaYou could promise to buy a whole heap of Nokia shares17:53
TermanaThey should only be a couple of cents at the moment right?17:53
Termana:P17:53
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TiagoTiagothe donation is to help open up the code, spread free open source  software, either by nokia doing it, or by giving the money to FSF for them to do their thing17:53
crashanddieTiagoTiago: ok, let's admit that we manage to grab $5000 from donations17:53
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (LED color) just write arbitrary values to */brightness17:53
TiagoTiagoremeber this will last a few years17:53
TermanaNokia is getting $10000 at least from each MeeGo conference sponsors I doubt they are too worried about the communities $5000 :P17:54
TiagoTiagoit's not jsut a one time event, over the yearspeople will donate more and more17:54
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crashanddieTiagoTiago: and that we get an 8% interest rate (very unlikely), after 3 years, we'd only have some $630017:54
timelesss/communities/community's/17:54
crashanddieTiagoTiago: even after 10 years, there would only be $11000 or something17:54
crashanddiethat's not even 3 months worth of salary for ONE engineer.17:55
TiagoTiagoeven if the money was invested in somthing profitable for the duration?17:55
crashanddieTiagoTiago: erhm... yes, at 8%17:55
crashanddieyou don't get 8% these days17:55
crashanddieyou get maybe... 3%?17:55
crashanddiethe higher the interest, the higher the risk, so there's a good chance everything would be lost anyway17:56
mc_teo`is there a way to manually enable and disable catalogues?17:56
* crashanddie facepalms at most people's understanding of credits and interests17:56
TiagoTiagowhat about savings account?17:56
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crashanddieTiagoTiago: exactly the same principle?17:56
TiagoTiagonot enough?17:56
crashanddieinterests never made that much money in low amounts17:57
mc_teo`i gotta move me to a country with an 8% interest rate17:57
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crashanddiemc_teo`: yeah, I wouldn't mind that either17:57
mc_teo`2.75% on one year deposit accounts here atm17:58
crashanddieyeah, best account in FR is currently 2.75 for 3 months, then 1.45%17:58
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mc_teo`3.75% is the highest ive seen, but thats with a 3 year deposit17:58
h4xordoodhi :)17:58
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: hmm - why diddn't I think that's work17:58
TiagoTiagoI once met a guy that had inherit so much money that jsut keeping it invested was giving him like about 5k profit each month17:58
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crashanddieTiagoTiago: well, yeah, but only if you have heaps of money17:58
h4xordoodi have a question how can i install flashplayer for firefox on n90017:58
crashanddieTiagoTiago: and the more money you have, the lesser the interest rate17:59
h4xordood?17:59
TiagoTiagoreally?17:59
mc_teo`?17:59
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: maybe because it'll getting overwritten whenever mce changes pattern?17:59
crashanddieTiagoTiago: well, yeah... If you invest $2 million, it only gives you like $16000 a year17:59
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TiagoTiagoThen why don't you split it over hundreds of savings accoutns each with just a few hundred bucks in it and profit big?17:59
h4xordood?17:59
crashanddieTiagoTiago: taxes17:59
TiagoTiagooh18:00
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: which basically is on every kbd event at very least18:00
TiagoTiagoforgot about those bastards18:00
kerioITT: people trying to make money from money18:00
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer18:00
SpeedEvilDoc18:00
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mc_teo`but if you invest big, dont they give you like a really good rate?18:00
SpeedEvilsigh18:00
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer18:00
crashanddiemc_teo`: nope18:00
SpeedEvilargh18:00
DocScrutinizeryes?18:00
h4xordoodhey can anyone solve myproblem ?18:00
crashanddiemc_teo`: well, most likely because people who invest big numbers don't want to take any risks18:00
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: In this app - not an issue18:00
* DocScrutinizer nods18:01
crashanddiemc_teo`: Say you invest 5 million, would you rather make 50k a year with near 100% certainty you get everything back, or make 500k and risk losing half your initial bet?18:01
h4xordoodhow can i install flashplayer so that i can browse www.speedtest.net on maemo ?18:01
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I want to make the LED go different colours on wakeups18:01
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SpeedEvilh4xordood: Are you aware of the app 'speedy' ?18:02
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h4xordoodno18:02
SpeedEvilhttp://maemo.org/packages/view/speedy/18:02