IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-08-12

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Tiagotiago	Wikipedia says SLL is the abreviation for the currency of Sierra Leone	00:01
hrw	kirma: pr1.3 named branches does not mean that pr1.3 will happen	00:02
lcuk	it does however show that the developers are trying to do something about it.	00:03
MohammadAG51	what pr1.3 branches?	00:04
hrw	or need more stable branch for working on code which will end in somewhere	00:04
* MohammadAG51 unpacks mp-fremantle-generic-pr to customize it		00:04
lcuk	MohammadAG51, at least post pr1.2 mods :)	00:05
MohammadAG51	hd :)	00:05
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lcuk	as one example	00:05
* MohammadAG51 wonders why pulseaudio is closed		00:05
MohammadAG51	bug 7901 i think?	00:06
MohammadAG51	die povbot	00:06
kirma	MohammadAG51: well, in this case Qt stuff. seems to be Qt update to 4.7 and some bugfixes... http://qt.gitorious.org/+qt-developers/qt/x11-maemo/blobs/4.7-fremantle-pr1.3/debian/changelog	00:06
* MohammadAG51 sees the word blobs		00:06
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MohammadAG51	found ya, osso-product-info -s OSSO_VERSION="RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_MR0"	00:08
MohammadAG51	hmm	00:08
MohammadAG51	that's in cal isn't it?	00:08
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MohammadAG51	Maintainer: Nokia	00:09
MohammadAG51	follow standards and shove an email next to the name	00:09
lcuk	file a bug technically	00:10
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alterego	Very negative tmo today :/	00:13
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DocScrutinizer	Tiagotiago: your provider might charge you for data sent in pointless retries to associate to wron SPN	00:18
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DocScrutinizer	APN	00:18
AfroMark	Hello all	00:18
AfroMark	Anyone care to help me out? My n900 is acting strange	00:18
Tiagotiago	wouldn't those pop up an error message?	00:18
AfroMark	Basically it claims to have run out of memory for installable applications, but I know it shouldn't have	00:19
DocScrutinizer	Tiagotiago: nope	00:19
Tiagotiago	is thre a log somewhere listing those events?	00:20
Tiagotiago	i mean, on the device itself	00:20
DocScrutinizer	dunno. Seems your best and simplest bet is to associate to wlan, as then GPRS should be down reliably	00:21
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DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: df -h ?	00:21
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Tiagotiago	i've been using wlan all this time my credits have been trickling down	00:22
DocScrutinizer	you installed fmms	00:22
DocScrutinizer	?	00:22
Tiagotiago	yep	00:23
Tiagotiago	haven't used it yet though	00:23
DocScrutinizer	see?	00:23
Tiagotiago	that prog is known to keep trying to connect to GPRS?	00:23
DocScrutinizer	fmms configures a second APN	00:23
Tiagotiago	i've mangled the user name ont hat one as well	00:23
* DocScrutinizer shrugs		00:24
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DocScrutinizer	at least that connection won't go down on WLAN connect aiui	00:24
Tiagotiago	does fmms runs on the background?	00:24
MohammadAG51	the connection fmms uses is hidden	00:24
MohammadAG51	no	00:24
DocScrutinizer	err wut?	00:24
AfroMark	DocScrutinizer: I've tried df -h before, but I don't know what I'm looking for. What is the name of the directory where applications are installed?	00:24
Tiagotiago	if i uninstall it, will that be enough, if it is what is causing the issue?	00:24
DocScrutinizer	Tiagotiago: you'll tell us	00:25
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, it doesn't show in the connecton UI	00:25
kerio	this usb port is annoying	00:25
DocScrutinizer	wut was for no	00:25
kerio	i have to charge with the cable half below my laptop so it pulls down a little and makes the connection	00:25
MohammadAG51	<Tiagotiago> does fmms runs on the background?	00:26
DocScrutinizer	kerio: great, so you have another 2 plug rounds maybe to let it fix without complete swap of mainboard	00:26
kerio	nooooo :(	00:27
Tiagotiago	orit doesn't show in the dashboard, but i dunno if the process is running	00:27
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MohammadAG51	use miniB, it worked for someone	00:27
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: shouldn't fmms run all the time, to receive mms on the time they happen?	00:28
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MohammadAG51	it doesn't	00:28
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: …	00:28
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: ;;;	00:28
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: (⁂)	00:29
kerio	DocScrutinizer: is it something i could do by myself	00:29
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Tiagotiago	could it associate with thebuyiltin messaging prog and have it launch fMMS when a MS arives?	00:29
DocScrutinizer	kerio: depends on your skills	00:29
kerio	i think the inside connector is just misaligned	00:30
DocScrutinizer	Tiagotiago: quite possible	00:30
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kerio	i'll see if i find a nokia store nearby	00:30
DocScrutinizer	aiui a mms is a sms that contains a URL to the media content	00:30
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: if it's misaligned then most probably it's coming off	00:31
DocScrutinizer	the fact it's not completely loose shows you have the electric contacts stil somewhat connected, and PCB not yet destroyed by tearing off pads and traces	00:32
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hrw	bye	00:33
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kerio	DocScrutinizer: so you're saying i should hurry?	00:34
kerio	or that's fixable with home tools?	00:34
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DocScrutinizer	I say you SHOULD NOT use the usb recepacle any longer, prior to fixing	00:34
DocScrutinizer	~2119	00:34
infobot	The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.	00:34
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AfroMark	could anyone please hear out my problem in a private conversation? I don't think it'll get anywhere otherwise	00:35
kerio	DocScrutinizer: and what, not charge the battery?	00:35
kerio	:/	00:35
DocScrutinizer	how will you charge when receptacle totally broken and so the PCB?	00:36
lcuk	AfroMark, and miss out on the collective knowledge of 514 other enthusiasts?	00:36
mc_teo	is installing nitdroid safe?	00:36
lcuk	i would pick a public community discussion over PM anyday!	00:36
MohammadAG51	android eats your babies	00:36
AfroMark	oh ok.	00:36
AfroMark	can someone tell me what directory installed applications are held in?	00:37
MohammadAG51	lcuk, 513, never count yourself	00:37
lcuk	you just have to ask the right questions and offer the right information beforehand :)	00:37
MohammadAG51	AfroMark, /	00:37
lcuk	lol	00:37
AfroMark	my n900 is telling me it has no memory available for applications, but there should be plenty	00:37
lcuk	AfroMark, whats your actual problem	00:37
DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: please paste the 3 lines df gave you	00:37
MohammadAG51	in that case	00:37
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MohammadAG51	AfroMark, /opt	00:37
lcuk	ok, open the console, type "df" and tell us what it says for the "/" area	00:37
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AfroMark	there are more than three lines	00:37
lcuk	as MohammadAG51 said	00:37
MohammadAG51	or /home/opt to be more precise	00:37
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DocScrutinizer	also for /home	00:38
MohammadAG51	we need a new pastebinit	00:38
Tiagotiago	what is the free space on each of the partitions?	00:38
DocScrutinizer	Nokia-N900-42-11:~# df -h / /home	00:39
DocScrutinizer	Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on	00:39
DocScrutinizer	rootfs 227.9M 141.0M 82.7M 63% /	00:39
DocScrutinizer	/dev/mmcblk0p2 2.0G 379.0M 1.5G 20% /home	00:39
AfroMark	right, so rootfs and ubi:rootfs are both mounted to / and use indicated 94%	00:39
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MohammadAG51	rootfs is ubi:rootfs	00:39
DocScrutinizer	ouch	00:39
AfroMark	the problem is, i havnt installed many apps, and Ive even removed some to no avail	00:39
DocScrutinizer	94% doesn't sound good anyway - please enter the command like above	00:39
MohammadAG51	what about /home?	00:40
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DocScrutinizer	df -h / /home	00:40
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AfroMark	ok one sec	00:41
MohammadAG51	hmm, crap /dev/mmcblk0p1 27.0G 26.7G 286.4M 99% /home/user/MyDocs	00:41
DocScrutinizer	lol	00:41
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AfroMark	how do you guys paste all this stuff? I'm on my pc atm	00:41
lcuk	MohammadAG51, implied facepalm	00:41
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: delete that pr0n	00:41
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MohammadAG51	cool, this was at 36MBs a week ago, /dev/mmcblk0p2 2.0G 1.1G 758.9M 60% /home	00:41
kerio	MohammadAG51: share that pr0n	00:41
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lcuk	AfroMark, ssh usually, but thats a whole other topic	00:41
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, who stores porn, streaming ftw	00:41
DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: I'm logged in to N900 via ssh from my PC	00:42
DocScrutinizer	c&p is easy that way	00:42
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AfroMark	yeh, ssh is a bit beyond me - ive tried messing with linux before but never got the hang of it	00:42
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Tiagotiago	using putty i can easilly get a remote terminal on my PC	00:43
Tiagotiago	Putty*	00:43
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: I'm headscratching how you managed to fill 26.7G though	00:43
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MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, pretty much the same	00:43
MohammadAG51	wtf	00:43
DocScrutinizer	apt pkg cache?	00:43
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MohammadAG51	1.6GBs of maps?	00:43
lcuk	AfroMark, :) maemo was my first ever fulltime linux installation, at some point in the future, get hold of winscp and putty and open your mind to it - its simple :)	00:43
MohammadAG51	i don't even use maps	00:43
* MohammadAG51 rm -rfs		00:44
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MohammadAG51	1.1GB DCIM/	00:44
DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: but for now it's enough to quote the %used figures from those 2 lines	00:44
MohammadAG51	4G .documents/	00:45
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lcuk	MohammadAG51, is that all?	00:45
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: you think this helps?	00:45
MohammadAG51	491M backups lol	00:46
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MohammadAG51	300M fcamera wtf	00:46
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: see, you made him angry, he took his pills and metamorphed to lcukn900	00:46
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AfroMark	right. should have some stats for you in a sec	00:47
AfroMark	i'm doing this a bit of a long way round	00:47
mc_teo	is installing nitdroid safe?	00:47
Tiagotiago	i use FireFTP to connect via sFTP	00:47
mc_teo	since its all in MicroSD	00:47
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mc_teo	and can i just remove SD card and it will boot maemo like normal?	00:47
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AfroMark	ok, so just "df" gave this table (it's a bit squashed)	00:48
AfroMark	~ $ df Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on rootfs 233344 214192 14868 94% / ubi0:rootfs 233344 214192 14868 94% / tmpfs 1024 108 916 11% /tmp tmpfs 256 80 176 31% /var/run none 10240 72 10168 1% /dev tmpfs 65536 4 65532 0% /dev/shm /dev/mmcblk0p1 28312128 11828544 16483584 42% /home/user/MyDocs	00:48
lcuk	Tiagotiago, I found winscp first, how comfortable/configurable is fireftp	00:48
MohammadAG51	where's /home	00:48
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DocScrutinizer	df -h / /home	00:49
MohammadAG51	2.9G .sounds	00:49
AfroMark	"df -h /home" gave this:	00:49
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: that's enough	00:49
MohammadAG51	3.7G .videos	00:49
Tiagotiago	I haven't used WinSCP yet, dunno how they compare to eachother	00:49
AfroMark	~ $ df -h /home Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on rootfs 227.9M 208.7M 15.0M 93% /	00:49
MohammadAG51	1.1G DCIM	00:49
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: pastebin it	00:49
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, can't, du -h'ing shit manually	00:50
AfroMark	and "df -h / /home" gave this:	00:50
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AfroMark	~ $ df -h / /home Filesystem Size Used Available Use% Mounted on rootfs 227.9M 208.7M 15.0M 93% / rootfs 227.9M 208.7M 15.0M 93% /	00:50
MohammadAG51	oh	00:50
MohammadAG51	adobe photoshop CS5	00:50
MohammadAG51	that explains it	00:50
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Tiagotiago	this is a tad oftopic; is there a way i can setup Gmail to fwd msgs sent by people in a list of senders i create?	00:50
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MohammadAG51	umm	00:50
MohammadAG51	wtff?	00:50
DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: you rouned /home	00:50
DocScrutinizer	ruined	00:51
AfroMark	technically I didn't do it	00:51
DocScrutinizer	mompls	00:51
AfroMark	I sent my phone to a nokia carecentre to be looked at cause it stopped working. They apparently flashed it and replaced the on/off button	00:51
DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: please copy this: mount\|grep home	00:52
AfroMark	When I got it back, it still had all my old files on	00:52
AfroMark	Although the OS was reset	00:52
kerio	so reflash	00:52
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kerio	easy	00:52
Tiagotiago	this is so i can have msgs from people i know be fwd'd to the "secret" account i have set on my device without any spam getting thru (since only Google knows about the address, well, at least the only spam will be from Google)	00:52
lcuk	++	00:52
DocScrutinizer	yep, full reflash should do	00:52
lcuk	but if you want to backup photos now, then do so..	00:52
MohammadAG51	hmm	00:52
MohammadAG51	what if you lost the 2GB partition	00:53
AfroMark	how do I get a pipe symbal in terminal>?	00:53
DocScrutinizer	I wonder where photos could live when even /home is gone	00:53
MohammadAG51	blue arrow + ctrl	00:53
lcuk	thats a good point	00:53
AfroMark	aha. never knew that!	00:53
AfroMark	useful!	00:53
luke-jr	kerio: … this is someone who can't figure out ssh	00:53
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GAN900	Weee, time to unset some TMs.	00:54
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MohammadAG51	heh, found the PR1.0 image	00:55
AfroMark	ok, so mount grep home gave this:	00:55
AfroMark	~ $ mount\|grep home /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir)	00:55
DocScrutinizer	damn that's weird	00:56
lcuk	MohammadAG51, heh	00:56
DocScrutinizer	ls -lid /home	00:56
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AfroMark	is it possible that the Nokia shop reinstalled Maemo into the smaller memory partition for apps?	00:57
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DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: please type: stat /home	00:57
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MohammadAG51	i dbout they'd know how to do that	00:57
lcuk	AfroMark, can you paste entire output of df and mount into pastebin	00:57
AfroMark	DocScrutinizer, was the "ls" command for me to try?	00:57
DocScrutinizer	and paste the result here	00:57
lcuk	having random lines is a bit confusing	00:57
MohammadAG51	and actually	00:57
MohammadAG51	opt > rootfs	00:57
AfroMark	pastebin?	00:58
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: ack#	00:58
MohammadAG51	~pastebin	00:58
infobot	[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://bin.cakephp.org/ , http://asterisk.pastey.net/ , or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude.	00:58
lcuk	this is academic really, since the guys have already mentioned best way to cure this	00:58
AfroMark	sorry, i'm a bit of a n00b	00:58
lcuk	thats ok, but something is off, its just finding out what - i think best will be to reflash like others	00:59
DocScrutinizer	hmm, the second half of that info doesn't really help AfroMark :-P	00:59
MohammadAG51	everyone is, at one point or another	00:59
MohammadAG51	4 years ago, i didn't know what ls was	00:59
DocScrutinizer	I'd like to learn how /home can be gone while /home/user/MyDocs still there	00:59
MohammadAG51	or was it 3 years	00:59
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MohammadAG51	home can't go away DocScrutinizer	01:00
MohammadAG51	i doubt maemo would boot w/o a /home	01:00
DocScrutinizer	yeah, but look at the pasts of AfroMark	01:00
lcuk	i think /home went after booting	01:00
lcuk	for some reason..	01:01
DocScrutinizer	yep	01:01
DocScrutinizer	fs corrupt maybe	01:01
lcuk	shall see clearer once the whole paste is there	01:01
DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: see->	01:01
* lcuk cannot grep lines		01:01
DocScrutinizer	~flashing	01:01
infobot	rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	01:01
DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: you need to flash both VANILLA (aka eMMC) and COMBINED (aka rootfs)	01:02
DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: most painless under linux	01:03
AfroMark	ok, so you're suggesting I flash certain areas of the device? I though a flash was an entire OS reinstall	01:03
DocScrutinizer	even a live-CD will do	01:03
MohammadAG51	we need a maemo live cd	01:04
DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: you need a complete reflash	01:04
MohammadAG51	coreutils + flasher, 30MBs or so in size	01:04
DocScrutinizer	yep, brilliant idea	01:04
AfroMark	and you're saying I should do this from a linux machine?	01:04
DocScrutinizer	DSL or somesuch	01:04
MohammadAG51	yep, just take out X	01:04
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DocScrutinizer	Damn Small Linux	01:05
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MohammadAG51	best said in a texas accent	01:05
MohammadAG51	anyways	01:05
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AfroMark	sorry, but I'm pretty lost	01:05
DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: would be less pain for sure	01:05
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satmd	mhm	01:07
DocScrutinizer	if you got absolutely no way to get a linux machine, you can try via windows, but failure rate is much higher	01:07
satmd	timeless: you told me to bug someone juhin...something (would have to scroll up)... but he/she did not turn up here?	01:07
satmd	can you tell me where to look for him/her?	01:07
satmd	that was about the certificate problem	01:07
AfroMark	ive got a machine running xubuntu in my room	01:07
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DocScrutinizer	cool	01:07
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AfroMark	just I'm not entirely sure what you're saying I should do	01:07
DocScrutinizer	~flashing	01:08
infobot	well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	01:08
DocScrutinizer	look there	01:08
AfroMark	can you point me to a maemo wiki page or something?	01:08
AfroMark	oh.	01:08
AfroMark	i need to type faster =P	01:08
DocScrutinizer	it's actually easy if you precisely follow the steps	01:08
MohammadAG51	too late, he already did	01:08
MohammadAG51	:p	01:08
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alterego	MohammadAG51: How many new versions of musb been created?	01:09
MohammadAG51	hmm?	01:09
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	01:09
DocScrutinizer	good question	01:09
AfroMark	aha. so I shouldn't lose any files after flashing?	01:09
AfroMark	by that I mean photos, video etc as long as it's in Mydocs?	01:09
MohammadAG51	lol?	01:09
DocScrutinizer	you'll lose everything	01:09
MohammadAG51	if you reflash the vanilla image, you'll lose your life too	01:10
DocScrutinizer	except a possible uSD card	01:10
AfroMark	oh. the first paragraph of that wiki is misleading then	01:10
MohammadAG51	jk, but you'll lose mydocs	01:10
MohammadAG51	well	01:10
MohammadAG51	if you reflash rootfs only	01:10
MohammadAG51	then you only lose /	01:10
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MohammadAG51	hmm, not very accurate	01:10
DocScrutinizer	he needs full reflash vanilla and /	01:10
MohammadAG51	/usr /var /lib /etc	01:11
DocScrutinizer	as it seems /home is borked	01:11
MohammadAG51	stupid question but	01:11
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DocScrutinizer	so he'll lose all data on device	01:12
MohammadAG51	did you try to reboot?	01:12
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lcuk	try just flashing one part	01:12
AfroMark	contacts/calendar etc backup are saved onto the sim card, right?	01:12
lcuk	the if that fails, flash both	01:12
lcuk	then if that fails contact nokia care again because your problem is not solved	01:12
AfroMark	just it's a pain to have to redo all that	01:12
lcuk	AfroMark ^^	01:12
lcuk	no	01:12
lcuk	you sent device to nokia care	01:13
kerio	yay the closest nokia care is 122km away	01:13
DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: that's why lcuk (?) suggested to backup all data you need now	01:13
AfroMark	lost you there, lcuk	01:13
lcuk	at that point, you basically expect to lose it? flashing only the rootfs may retain it	01:13
kerio	._.	01:13
kerio	wtf am i going to do?	01:13
MohammadAG51	lcuk, tbh, nokia care should actually check if it's working	01:13
lcuk	but flashing the emmc will remove totally	01:13
AfroMark	including all backups?	01:13
DocScrutinizer	home/user/MyDocs still there. mass storage might work	01:14
kerio	does the nokia care also work by mail?	01:14
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DocScrutinizer	sure kerio - they send you a package of instant repair	01:15
AfroMark	yes I think if you take your unit to a nokia shop they will mail it for you	01:15
kerio	DocScrutinizer: yay	01:15
kerio	really though - is there a way i can just send them the n900?	01:15
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DocScrutinizer	should	01:15
DocScrutinizer	sure thing	01:15
AfroMark	right. I'm going to try out flashing following the wiki steps. Thanks for all your help everyone. I'll let you know how it goes.	01:16
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DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: first of all: plug N900 to your windows system via USB cable, and see what file you might recover	01:17
AfroMark	I can recover all of them	01:17
AfroMark	they're all accessible	01:17
AfroMark	handy, really	01:17
DocScrutinizer	so copy them now	01:17
AfroMark	will do.	01:17
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GAN900	I love how MicroB is incapable of zooming text 70% of the time.	01:19
DocScrutinizer	then I suggest you go for a full reflash (both image files, without booting in between), as odds are you won't recover /home by reflashing rootfs anyway	01:19
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DocScrutinizer	AfroMark: I even suggest you flash VANILLA image first, it's more safe if something goes wrong with the "no boot" part	01:20
AfroMark	what's VANILLA?	01:20
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DocScrutinizer	the eMMC image	01:20
AfroMark	ok	01:20
DocScrutinizer	bla-VANILLA_EMMC-bla	01:21
AfroMark	I'm assuming it goes into detail about how to do this on the wiki	01:21
DocScrutinizer	yes	01:21
Tiagotiago	why i can't access the right click menu in about:config in microB?	01:22
DocScrutinizer	because you haven't enabled the cursor mode?	01:23
Tiagotiago	hm	01:23
alterego	Heh	01:23
Tiagotiago	nope, that didn't help	01:23
DocScrutinizer	Tiagotiago: you know, that swipe-from-left trick	01:24
MohammadAG51	actually	01:24
MohammadAG51	microb is kinda retarded	01:24
MohammadAG51	it allows right clicks with a mouse	01:24
Tiagotiago	yep, no right click even with that	01:24
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MohammadAG51	see scratchbox emu or x11vnc	01:24
DocScrutinizer	I managed to do that	01:24
MohammadAG51	or a bt mouse, w/e	01:24
DocScrutinizer	in about:config	01:24
Tiagotiago	neither with using VNC to connect to the device from a WinXP box	01:24
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MohammadAG51	hmm, idk then	01:24
GAN900	Leace this stupid thing on for m9re than a day and it's unusable	01:24
MohammadAG51	but right clicking works in the address bar	01:25
GAN900	Weee 100% key repeat bug.	01:25
MohammadAG51	when on scratchbox	01:25
Tiagotiago	right click works fine on regular pages, but not on about:config	01:25
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MohammadAG51	CPU load + long keypress = sucks	01:25
AfroMark	Well, I'd better be off. Thanks again all for the help! I'll be back if anything goes wrong.	01:25
DocScrutinizer	Tiagotiago: WFM	01:25
MohammadAG51	oh you'll be back, i assure you :P	01:25
GAN900	It's Linux turned into Windows 98	01:25
Tiagotiago	that does WFM stands for?	01:26
GAN900	Good job, Nokia!	01:26
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GAN900	/reboots	01:26
MohammadAG51	WorksForMe	01:26
Tiagotiago	~WFM	01:26
infobot	somebody said wfm was (Wired For Management Baseline) This is an Intel hardware specification that is designed to allow for compliance with easier management of desktop PCs in a networked environment. The specification calls for computers to be compatible with a pre-boot protocol that can be used to update the system or perform other management options. Also, the computer must be compatible with network/desktop management applications.. Works For Me	01:26
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MohammadAG51	~wtf wfm	01:26
infobot	WFM: works for me	01:26
Tiagotiago	oh	01:26
MohammadAG51	is shorter	01:26
MohammadAG51	~wtf wtf	01:26
infobot	WTF: {what,where,who,why} the fuck	01:26
MohammadAG51	cool	01:26
MohammadAG51	~wtf rofl	01:26
infobot	ROFL: rolling on floor laughing	01:26
MohammadAG51	hmm	01:26
* MohammadAG51 goes to the extremes		01:27
DocScrutinizer	actually nope, there's no context menu	01:27
MohammadAG51	~wtf roflmao	01:27
DocScrutinizer	what for?	01:27
infobot	ROFLMAO: rolling on floor laughing my ass off	01:27
MohammadAG51	smartass eh?	01:27
MohammadAG51	~wtf roflmaowpimp	01:27
infobot	Gee... I don't know what roflmaowpimp means...	01:27
MohammadAG51	ha!	01:27
MohammadAG51	take that	01:27
* MohammadAG51 thinks he needs to sleep		01:27
DocScrutinizer	~tell MohammadAG51 about query	01:27
MohammadAG51	~botsnack	01:27
infobot	:), MohammadAG51	01:27
MohammadAG51	xD DocScrutinizer	01:28
timeless_mbp	satmd: bugzilla	01:28
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GAN900	There, that should be better for about 8 hours.	01:28
MohammadAG51	<infobot> docscrutinizer wants you to know: talk dirty to me! LOL	01:28
DocScrutinizer	Tiagotiago: doubleclick on about:config does anything I need there	01:29
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, i think there's a reset to default option	01:29
Tiagotiago	does that just bring the edit value dialog (or toggle boolean values) ?	01:29
DocScrutinizer	yep	01:30
MohammadAG51	use the enter key for that	01:30
Tiagotiago	that doesn't help if you don't know the default value	01:30
MohammadAG51	if clicking fails	01:30
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satmd	ok	01:31
* DocScrutinizer burps and ponders maybe microb doesn't know as well what's the default value :-P		01:31
timeless_mbp	it does	01:32
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timeless_mbp	in gecko you'd normally right click and select reset	01:32
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: :-D	01:32
DocScrutinizer	enlighten us	01:32
Tiagotiago	with Firefox on my desktop right clicking on a settign in about:config shows a menu with among other things the option to reset the value of the setting to default	01:32
timeless_mbp	you can try adding a user.js file which specifies the default value	01:32
timeless_mbp	and then restart gecko	01:32
Tiagotiago	where is it taking the custom value to replace after i delete prefs.js?	01:32
Tiagotiago	it says the value is user defined, bold and stuff	01:32
DocScrutinizer	hmm, for booleans it's probably easy to figure which was default. For ints maybe. For filenames etc it might get a lil tad time consuming :-P	01:34
timeless_mbp	Tiagotiago: which pref?	01:34
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timeless_mbp	if it's one of the ones microb screws w/ you'll need to write an extension which rescrews them	01:35
DocScrutinizer	lol	01:35
DocScrutinizer	hahaha	01:35
DocScrutinizer	or you simply reinstall the shit	01:35
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Tiagotiago	what does it say on yours for general.useragent.vendor?	01:36
Tiagotiago	on your N900*	01:36
DocScrutinizer	tell me which file you need and I'll post it to you	01:36
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Tiagotiago	i don't know where it is stored since even if i delete prefs.js the custom value is restored next time i fire upmicroB	01:37
timeless_mbp	Tiagotiago: that's microb	01:37
DocScrutinizer	NONDEFAULT de_DE	01:37
timeless_mbp	just write an extension	01:37
Tiagotiago	i don't have the knowledge required for doing that yet	01:37
Tiagotiago	and i don't expect i'll manage to get it any time soon	01:38
DocScrutinizer	err vendor	01:38
timeless_mbp	it's pretty simple	01:38
timeless_mbp	a basic extension which listens to some profile notification	01:38
Tiagotiago	it looks like it is where the user agent string is stored, the text there matches what sites report as my user string	01:38
timeless_mbp	and uses the pref service to set the pref to the value you want	01:38
timeless_mbp	or reset the pref	01:38
DocScrutinizer	NONDEFAULT Firefox/3.5 Maemo Browser 1.7.4.8 RX-51 N900	01:38
timeless_mbp	btw, did you try using the override pref?	01:39
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timeless_mbp	i don't think we set it	01:39
timeless_mbp	which means you should be able to just set that	01:39
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: yeah, soooo simple (I wouldn't even know where to start)	01:39
Tiagotiago	yeah, didn't help	01:39
timeless_mbp	?	01:39
timeless_mbp	didn't help how?	01:39
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timeless_mbp	general.useragent.override	01:40
timeless_mbp	it isn't set	01:41
timeless_mbp	there's no way we're stupid enough to step on that	01:41
Tiagotiago	some sites keep refreshing :/	01:41
timeless_mbp	if you set it, that's the thing that will go out over the wire	01:41
timeless_mbp	no need to mess with general.useragent.vendor	01:41
timeless_mbp	which really is perfectly reasonable as a microb bit	01:41
DocScrutinizer	nonoes!! timeless_mbp, he installed FF or somesuch interfering app	01:41
timeless_mbp	?????	01:42
timeless_mbp	what the heck?	01:42
Tiagotiago	?	01:42
DocScrutinizer	check irclogs of yesterday	01:42
DocScrutinizer	Tiagotiago: wasn't that you?	01:42
Tiagotiago	ceweasel that came with EasyDeb?	01:42
Tiagotiago	Iceweasel*	01:42
DocScrutinizer	somebody (not me) told you this is the cause of your reloading pages most likely	01:43
Tiagotiago	i wouldn't expect them to write on each other's folders	01:43
DocScrutinizer	dunno if timeless_mbp has some better comment on it	01:44
MohammadAG51	which easy debian doesn't do	01:44
SpeedEvil	easy debian is _in_a_chroot_	01:44
SpeedEvil	It doesn't screw with the system at all.	01:44
timeless_mbp	microb's profile is ~/.mozilla/microb or something	01:44
timeless_mbp	fennec should not be using that	01:44
* DocScrutinizer shrugs		01:44
Tiagotiago	Iceweasel has it's own folder there	01:44
timeless_mbp	nor should firefox or iceweasel	01:44
MohammadAG51	iceweasel can't use that	01:44
timeless_mbp	i'm not sure what your problem is	01:45
timeless_mbp	but i don't really want to care right now	01:45
DocScrutinizer	a) easy_deb was never mentioned yesterday, b) I don't have the slightest idea	01:45
Tiagotiago	then it's not chrooted? i didn't find Iceweasel to uninstall, and i have the impression it only showed up among other apps after i installed eAsyDeb	01:45
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Tiagotiago	EasyDeb*	01:45
timeless_mbp	it's 1:45am and i'm watching tv :)	01:45
DocScrutinizer	mhm, actually a good idea	01:46
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DocScrutinizer	perseides probably even better than TV	01:50
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: did some photos?	01:51
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: a bit cloudy	01:51
SpeedEvil	http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100811/01343110578.shtml - insanity.	01:51
SpeedEvil	Pre-suing people for acts that haven't happened yet.	01:51
DocScrutinizer	I'll head out and check what's the weather here..	01:51
DocScrutinizer	bbl	01:51
kerio	heh, minority report	01:51
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SpeedEvil	:)	01:53
SpeedEvil	Doubleplusgood!	01:53
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kerio	SpeedEvil: i'd like to go there, claim to be one of those john doe, and ask for instant dismissal plus legal expenses for lack of evidence	01:53
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Tiagotiago	it's worse than minority report, they don't even know who actually is even interested in committing the crime in the future	01:55
kerio	what happens if less than the sued people actually watch the concert?	01:56
SpeedEvil	I also wonder what happens to the 101th infringer.	01:56
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kerio	he gets to go home free?	01:57
timeless_mbp	Tiagotiago: it's clever	01:57
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timeless_mbp	and seems to be working	01:57
timeless_mbp	kerio: no	01:57
timeless_mbp	you amend the claim later	01:57
DocScrutinizer	meh, clouds	01:58
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SpeedEvil	I wish the display would go another factor of a thousand dimmer	02:00
DocScrutinizer	oh, it doesn't?	02:00
kerio	i wish my usb port worked properly :(	02:01
kerio	that is a bad thing	02:01
DocScrutinizer	until it's broken completely, you can prove by the kind of damage whether it's due to mistreatment/excessive force, or it's a production bug	02:03
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luke-jr	FWIW, Gentoo-N900's fremantle-sources now has a USE flag to pre-patch fcam into the kernel itself :D	02:04
DocScrutinizer	when you tear it off completely then by any POV you caused it to come off and Nokia won't fix for free	02:04
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kerio	that's why i'm not using it atm	02:06
kerio	but i really don't know how am i going to get it to nokia	02:06
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DocScrutinizer	send a package?	02:07
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DocScrutinizer	with ensurance. Get a RMA from your care center you send it to	02:08
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kerio	if i have to wait a month i can just wait until i get back home and go to a nokia care there	02:10
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kerio	i don't want to wait a month :'(	02:14
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kerio	do bl-5j standalone chargers exist?	02:14
kerio	i could cope with that	02:14
MohammadAG51	yes, not by nokia but yes	02:15
MohammadAG51	got mine for $1.5 shipped	02:15
MohammadAG51	since i have 3 batts	02:15
kerio	are they safe?	02:15
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MohammadAG51	the way i see it, yes	02:15
kerio	"the battery won't explode in my pocket"?	02:16
MohammadAG51	mine seems to stop charging when the battery is full	02:16
MohammadAG51	err, it's a charger, not a battery	02:16
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kerio	it charges batteries	02:16
kerio	:)	02:16
kthomas_vh	what's the difference?	02:17
* kthomas_vh waits to be smacked		02:17
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kerio	~smack kthomas_vh	02:17
* infobot smacks kthomas_vh upside the head.		02:17
kthomas_vh	thank you infobot	02:17
infobot	no worries, kthomas_vh	02:17
kthomas_vh	may I have another	02:17
kthomas_vh	?	02:17
MohammadAG51	kerio, well, chances are it'll explode on the charger, not in your pocket	02:18
kerio	MohammadAG51: yeah	02:18
kerio	which is good	02:18
MohammadAG51	yep	02:18
kerio	as opposed to the alternative	02:18
MohammadAG51	30 days? meh	02:18
MohammadAG51	solder a port onto it	02:18
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kerio	nah, i'd rather wait for the solution that gives me a hopefully brand new n900	02:19
kerio	:D	02:19
kerio	are bl5js common?	02:19
Tiagotiago	even wehn i delete the line about custom user agent string and make prefs.js readmonly microB sitll loads a custom value for general useragent.vendor , what is going on?	02:19
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kerio	Tiagotiago: microb is... "special"	02:20
Tiagotiago	lol	02:20
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kerio	MohammadAG51: are the batteries you use nokia original batteries?	02:24
MohammadAG51	yeah, BL-5Js	02:24
MohammadAG51	from Nokia of course, not the retarded 7000mAh ones on ebay	02:25
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kerio	i'd buy a mugen battery if they didn't look horrendously hideous	02:29
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Tiagotiago	hm, crap, seems microB won't uninstall extensions, i even tried deleting the folders inside the profile and they still come back next time i load microB	02:30
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kerio	ok, ordered battery + external charger	02:37
kerio	it's still 5 days i have to live without charging	02:37
kerio	in a place with bad coverage	02:37
kerio	;'(	02:38
alterego	I wonder how much QML will be in MeeGo/Harmattan ...	02:38
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alterego	Tomorrow,my mission is to add QML into my mixed Qt and GLES code.	02:45
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Tiagotiago	why microB keeps undoing stuff when i try to uninstall extensoins?	02:47
Tiagotiago	I mean, besides the programmers screwing up	02:47
MohammadAG51	umm, what extensions	02:48
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Tiagotiago	User Agent Switcher ( i thought i had uninstalled it ages ago) and pt-br dictionary, i even tried delting their folders in the extensions folder inside the microB profile folder	02:49
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kerio	rm -rf ~/.mozilla?	02:50
Tiagotiago	there are other folders there besides microB's	02:51
kerio	do you care about them?	02:51
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Tiagotiago	i woudl rather not go deleting things unecessarilly	02:54
Tiagotiago	there, deleted the microB folder itself, it was recereated and the exnteions still listed when i opened microB again	02:54
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Tiagotiago	:(	02:55
Tiagotiago	thigns with a ~in the beggining are links, right?	02:55
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kerio	~ is your home	02:56
kerio	and the infobot command prefix	02:56
kerio	~botsnack	02:56
infobot	kerio: aw, gee	02:56
kerio	there there	02:56
Tiagotiago	eems the exnteion folders are being symlinked automaticly from another palce	02:57
MohammadAG	ls -l	02:57
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Tiagotiago	usr/lib/browser/extensions	02:57
* MohammadAG suggests reflashing		02:57
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DocScrutinizer	~factinfo ~	03:02
infobot	there's no such factoid as ~, DocScrutinizer	03:02
Tiagotiago	there, deleted the targets of the links, lets see if that fix it	03:03
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Tiagotiago	deleting that and extensions.* in the profile seems to have done it	03:05
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Tiagotiago	at least the part about removing the extensions	03:17
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DocScrutinizer	I'd suggest a >>apt-get install $(apt-cache search microb\|grep " - "\|cut -f 1 -d " ") --purge --reinstall	03:27
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TiagoTiago	as root?	03:32
* MohammadAG51 wonders why dreamremote isn't working		03:33
MohammadAG51	apt-get install = needs to lock a dir + unpack to dirs, such as /usr, so yeah, as root	03:34
TiagoTiago	ok	03:34
DocScrutinizer	not tested! only if you know what you're doing (won't probably work ootb anyway)	03:35
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: maybe your dreams are detuned	03:37
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DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: anyway appending a -s won't hurt for first testrun	03:38
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nox-	MohammadAG51, maybe too old firmware?	03:41
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TiagoTiago	it said, among other things, this: http://pastebin.com/TZsB9XzL	03:46
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TiagoTiago	do i need to do anything about it?	03:48
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TiagoTiago	doesn't seem like anything has changed :/	04:01
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luke-jr	my N900's been off AC for 11 hours-- down to 40% battery left	04:43
luke-jr	man, R&D mode really really kills battery life XD	04:43
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* SpeedEvil sighs at fucking web designers.		04:56
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SpeedEvil	100K - of html - to show a simple list of 20 products.	04:57
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MohammadAG	Dreamboxes rock!	04:57
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MohammadAG	I can mute a sucky TV show w/o anyone noticing how I did	04:57
MohammadAG	<3 web interfaces	04:57
SpeedEvil	'this thing doesn't work'	04:58
SpeedEvil	'I know, for his birthday, we'll install a tivo'	04:58
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, ping?	05:01
MohammadAG	Been playing around with LEDs on Ubuntu, it's (very) low quality, but that's understandable since I downscaled it from 15MBs to 1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PysqcYAQtto	05:01
MohammadAG	running the script twice is kinda fun xD	05:02
DocScrutinizer51	pong	05:02
Macer	damnit	05:02
Macer	my power went out	05:03
Macer	and it's like 100 degrees and humid	05:03
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, link above	05:03
Macer	NO AC! AHHHH!!	05:03
* Macer opens the ac app on his n900		05:03
SpeedEvil	Macer: I have a solution for you!	05:04
SpeedEvil	Macer: you can come and live in my shed.	05:04
Macer	a backup generator :(	05:04
SpeedEvil	It's pleasantly cool.	05:04
Macer	i'm going to buy one soon	05:04
Macer	power outages SUCK	05:04
Macer	especially days like this where it is like 99% humidity	05:04
SpeedEvil	Macer: And I think I've killed all of the rats	05:04
MohammadAG	agreed, especially with a laptop like mine	05:05
Macer	haha	05:05
MohammadAG	11 minute battery life	05:05
MohammadAG	from 100 to cold dead	05:05
Macer	well. if the power doesn't turn on soon my fridge will spoil	05:05
Macer	but i'm sure the freezer can keep in the cool for quite a while	05:05
MohammadAG	4h	05:05
MohammadAG	or 8h	05:05
MohammadAG	power was down for 7h last week	05:05
Macer	MohammadAG: yeah. we had one like that last month	05:06
Macer	summertime :) too many air conditioners	05:06
Macer	then again they probably shut it off on purpose to do stupid crap	05:06
Macer	and say it was a problem with this or that	05:06
SpeedEvil	I've overclocked my fridge.	05:06
MohammadAG	yeah, like charging an N900 or sth	05:06
SpeedEvil	(well, I removed the baffle that normally insulates it)	05:06
Macer	my ups isn't going to last much longer even with the main fileserver down	05:06
SpeedEvil	It's now at -15C, not 4.	05:06
SpeedEvil	And I'm using it as another freezer.	05:06
Macer	i probably have like 45 mins left with this low power stuff on it	05:06
Macer	the baffle that insulates it?	05:07
Macer	don't you want more insulation in a freezer? :)	05:07
SpeedEvil	Macer: Ideally. I've got some pressed against the sides.	05:07
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Macer	is it like some hard core industrial insulation? :)	05:08
SpeedEvil	Macer: it's a fridge/freezer. It's got a tiny freezer compartmnet at the top, and a larger compartment at teh bottom	05:08
Macer	i'm waiting for my ups to flatline :)	05:08
Macer	the beeps are getting closer	05:08
SpeedEvil	These are seperated by a barrier normally which when the freezer part is at the correct temperature allows enough heat to leak up from the fridge to keep the fridge at the correct temp.	05:09
SpeedEvil	REmove the barrier, and it gets a lot colder.	05:09
SpeedEvil	I have maybe 6h of uptime on UPS, and can swap to battery bank + inverter for another 48 or so.	05:09
SpeedEvil	Then I'd need to fix the generator.	05:10
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CasTTeLLo	hello	06:39
CasTTeLLo	need helper here...	06:39
pronto	ask your question , dont ask to ask	06:40
pronto	just ask	06:40
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CasTTeLLo	how to use fm tran widget?	06:40
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pronto	have you checked the wiki/forums/google?	06:42
CasTTeLLo	forum yeap but -ve	06:43
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TiagoTiago	one last thing before i go sleep, i think i figured out how to solve my issue, the mozilla folder can't be hidden, can't have a dot int he beginning of the name, just a fucking dot was causing all this mess, just get rid of the dot and you're done, it's that simple!!! :D	06:51
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TiagoTiago	anywaygotta go sleep, cya	06:53
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CasTTeLLo	hhmmm..	06:58
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ieatlint	general question: how stupid is it to think that formatting a flash drive to udf is a good idea because then windows, linux, osx all can read/write without 3rd party drivers?	08:19
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luke-jr	ieatlint: and they can't with vfat?	08:22
ieatlint	they can, but fat32 has a 4gb filesize limit	08:23
ieatlint	and that is a problem	08:23
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jacekowski	morning	10:17
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:22
* luke-jr hands jacekowski and Jaffa the trash.		10:22
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Jaffa	luke-jr: Ta	10:23
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mece	oooh a new user posted his first talk post. in a whine on nokia thread, AND (and here's the kicker) It was a good post! omg!	10:32
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SwedeMike	url?	10:33
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mece	81.22.246.6	10:33
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mece	erm..	10:33
mece	no	10:33
mece	LOL	10:33
mece	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=783671&postcount=15	10:34
mece	hehe	10:34
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mece	SwedeMike: was it you?	10:35
SwedeMike	no.	10:35
mece	ok. Another mike then :)	10:35
Jaffa	mece: Is it all the Council's fault?	10:35
Jaffa	mece: Ooh, good first post.	10:36
mece	Jaffa, I don't know, all I saw was Whine Whine whine, sarcasm, ACTUAL QUESTION, whine, sarcasm	10:36
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crashanddie	Jaffa: yes, everything's always the Council's fault	10:38
crashanddie	Jaffa: btw, how are the elections coming along? You should start campaigning	10:39
jacekowski	well, council is doing fuck all to my experience	10:40
luke-jr	no	10:40
jacekowski	and just cover their ass	10:40
luke-jr	the Council is infallible	10:40
TermanaN900	stick it to the man	10:40
jacekowski	they are like a nokia bitches	10:40
TermanaN900	and women	10:40
luke-jr	lol	10:40
crashanddie	jacekowski: yeah, like GAN never criticised Nokia, eh?	10:40
TermanaN900	crashanddie, thats ALL GAN does now	10:41
luke-jr	LOL	10:41
jacekowski	well, i still remember chromium issue	10:41
luke-jr	put me on the council	10:41
luke-jr	I won't know wtf to do	10:41
luke-jr	lol	10:41
alterego	Loving QML,	10:41
jacekowski	and all council did was just said how bad red bend is	10:41
mece	QML FTFW!	10:41
jacekowski	and we should listen to nokia	10:41
luke-jr	why is there even a Maemo Council when Maemo is dead anyhow?	10:41
aziwoqpd	to organize the zombie horde	10:42
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mece	maemo is not dead, it's just resting	10:42
TermanaN900	luke-jr, its like the executors of an estate	10:42
alterego	Want to see what I can do with Qt, QML & OpenGL ES 2	10:42
TermanaN900	:P	10:42
jacekowski	rest in piece	10:42
mece	ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE! RUUUUNNN!!	10:42
jacekowski	s	10:42
luke-jr	TermanaN900: except Council has no authority…	10:42
mece	alterego, simple minds think alike :D	10:42
luke-jr	if council has authority… srsly elect me so I can free gpsdriver and BME	10:42
mece	wtf, now this room turned into a whine thread.	10:42
TermanaN900	luke-jr, well no, but i just meant the dead part really :P	10:42
alterego	mece: you're mixing media too? :)	10:43
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jacekowski	luke-jr: watching bme code will melt your brain	10:43
luke-jr	mece: I didn't know IRC supported threading!	10:43
luke-jr	jacekowski: I just want to compile it with -O9!	10:43
Jaffa	jacekowski: Err, on Chromium I remember repeatedly sending you emails asking if such-and-such an action on the code was feasible; or asking if you wanted us to help talk to Red Bend with you. You didn't answer or reply at all.	10:43
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alterego	IRX is pipes and filters :)	10:43
TermanaN900	jacekowski, having to USE it will melt your brain	10:43
mece	alterego, well no, but I also "Want to see what I can do with Qt, QML & OpenGL ES 2"	10:44
mece	:D	10:44
alterego	Ah, cool	10:44
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Jaffa	luke-jr: It's a Maemo Community council. Go read the fucking thread, and take jacekowski with you to actually learn something before mouthing off.	10:44
mece	alterego, I watched the demo on the trollblog and was amazed.	10:44
luke-jr	Jaffa: you take life too seriously. srsly.	10:44
luke-jr	maybe you need to join #luke-jrIsAnAsshat	10:45
mece	Isn't chromium in the repos anyway?	10:45
Jaffa	luke-jr: No, I just reached the end of my tether.	10:45
jacekowski	mece: it's in my repo	10:45
rmrfchik	teh drama?	10:45
mece	jacekowski, oh.	10:45
alterego	I like how smooth QML feels on the device.	10:45
mece	alterego, what have you done?	10:46
luke-jr	Jaffa: I have no clue what we're talking about, just saying random things that sound interesting	10:46
jacekowski	and some people are just too stupid	10:46
jacekowski	that's e-mail i've recieved recently	10:46
jacekowski	can you please help me install chrome on my N900.	10:46
jacekowski	I am not able to locate the libxss on the link provided.	10:46
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luke-jr	o wells	10:46
luke-jr	night	10:46
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mece	jacekowski, wot? I just clicked the thing and it installed. Go figure.	10:47
alterego	mece: Well, I've got OpenGL and Qt playing nice. I'm just looking into QML now, how I can interface with it from C++ and vice versa.	10:47
jacekowski	mece: well, some people have problem	10:47
alterego	Making custom QML widgets and also linking up application code dynamically.	10:47
jacekowski	http://jacekowski.org/Maemo/Chromium#comments	10:47
jacekowski	ehh	10:47
mece	alterego, sounds complicated. I just wanna do everything in QML, since it's easy.	10:48
Jaffa	mece: No, Nokia received a C&D from Red Bend. http://maemo.org/community/council/chromium-removed_from_maemo-org_repositories/ jacekowski, as package maintainer, and the council were informed and told what Nokia Legal would do. We agreed to take it down as a gesture of good faith so that we could start discussions about uploading a version without courgette and whether jacekowski was interested in us talking to Red Bend to see if that would be sufficient (i.e	10:48
alterego	mece: I was thinking of having my ui specified in QML, then C++ binds the application logic to the QML elements through element ids'.	10:48
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Jaffa	So, you can understand I'm a bit pissed off that the packager in that instance claims we're covering our asses and shills for Nokia.	10:48
jacekowski	i did upload version without courgette	10:48
jacekowski	and it was removed	10:49
alterego	So anyone can hack the look and feel of my app, as long as the keep the write ids and interfaces for those elements.	10:49
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alterego	sorry, just woken up, they, right ... :D	10:50
alterego	mece: have you done anything interesting with QML? I was thinking of writing a media player replacement.	10:51
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alterego	But I'm still thinking of ideas, I'll probably do something else.	10:51
Jaffa	jacekowski: If you don't tell people whether it's just the source, just the binary and don't reply whether or not you want us to talk to Red Bend on your behalf, I can't help you	10:51
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crashanddie	Jaffa: jacekowski is a righteous troll, just let it go	10:54
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lejonet	I am following the maemo wiki's MADDE guide but when I get to the part where I am to link em together thru USB I dont get an wired interface called usb0 (I dont run any network manager at all)	10:58
mece	alterego, no I've not done anything, I only came across the demo yesterday and checked out some code. I'm working (very slowly) on a qt board game, and thought I might go QML. Currently PyQt	10:58
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jacekowski	lejonet: you get it	11:00
jacekowski	lejonet: but it's down by default so you have to use ifconfig -a to see it	11:00
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lejonet	jacekowski: I dont see it with ifconfig -a	11:01
alterego	mece: I was thinking of writing a multiplayer Go! game that communicates with clients via a http service.	11:01
lejonet	jacekowski: I am guessing it is an USB module for the kernel I might be missing?	11:02
jacekowski	do you have usb interface on a phone?	11:02
alterego	I wonder if there's a market for a monthly subscription service that offers games based on QML :)	11:02
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alterego	mece: writing custom widgets look fun though :) I might port my GPS app to QML	11:05
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crashanddie	alterego: screenshot?	11:07
lejonet	jacekowski: Yeah, I have an N900	11:07
jacekowski	i mean, do you have usb0 interface	11:07
crashanddie	lol	11:08
crashanddie	lejonet: nice one ;)	11:08
lejonet	crashanddie: yeah ^^	11:08
jacekowski	hmm, you still have usb port on n900?	11:08
lejonet	jacekowski: according to mad developer yes	11:08
crashanddie	lejonet: not the phone, the fact you thought you had to mention you owned an n900.	11:08
jacekowski	some people have lost it	11:08
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lejonet	crashanddie: Well seeing as it might be relevant seeing as different phones handle stuff differently :P	11:09
crashanddie	lejonet: there's only the N900 that runs Maemo 5	11:09
lejonet	jacekowski: I have an usb0 interface both in Mad developer and it shows with ifconfig	11:09
alterego	crashanddie: http://alterego.metapath.org/projects/columbus	11:09
lejonet	crashanddie: Did not know that ^^	11:10
crashanddie	alterego: ta	11:10
alterego	crashanddie: very wip at the moment :)	11:10
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crashanddie	alterego: nice	11:10
crashanddie	alterego: how smooth is it?	11:10
alterego	Very :)	11:10
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alterego	That's pure Qt	11:10
crashanddie	alterego: I wouldn't mind having the compass (194609.png) mounted on my bike :D	11:11
alterego	crashanddie: funnily enoough, that is actually why I'm writing it :D	11:11
mece	alterego, oooo purrty!	11:11
crashanddie	alterego: hehehe	11:11
alterego	I'm going to add average speed functions trip counter etc.	11:11
crashanddie	alterego: if you enable that with a gpx file logging, I'm going to rub against your leg	11:11
alterego	crashanddie: loggiing is already working, I'll look kinto gpx dumping.	11:12
mece	It's weird, in all the turmoil and whining and zombie apocalypse of maemo, I'm constantly getting more and more excited about my n900.	11:12
kerio	rub what against his leg?	11:12
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alterego	Heh	11:12
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crashanddie	kerio: I'll leave that to your imagination	11:12
kerio	my dog does that, it's disturbing...	11:13
alterego	right, gotta get ready for dentist appointment. bbl	11:13
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crashanddie	alterego: sounds like someone else is going to rub your teeth :P	11:14
mece	hey, quick, I need a screencap of the head up display inside the helmet of Street Hawk, the 80ies tv series!	11:16
lejonet	jacekowski: I guess i'll have to wait until I am home and have wireless access to both	11:17
jacekowski	usb networking is a lot faster	11:18
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lejonet	jacekowski: Well I cannot seem to get further than my machine recognizing an USB device that is called RNDIS/Ethernet Gadget manufactured by Linux2.6.28-omap1 with musb_hdrc is connected, no responce about any interface at all :/ but on the N900 I can both see in mad developer that it is indeed using g_ether, it is configured with an static IP and ifconfig shows the usb0 interace	11:20
lejonet	interface*	11:20
jacekowski	windows?	11:20
lejonet	Gentoo	11:20
jacekowski	ahh	11:20
jacekowski	that would explain it	11:20
jacekowski	use normal distribution	11:20
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lejonet	uhm excuse me?	11:21
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jacekowski	use distribution where it doesn't take days to install any application	11:21
mece	OMGWTFLOL! Ribs as student lunch!	11:21
lejonet	The screenshots seems to be taken (in the wiki that is) with ubuntu	11:21
lejonet	jacekowski: I prefer having a system that only does what I want it to do, and it doesnt take that long to install anything actually	11:22
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jacekowski	have you tried installing gimp or open office?	11:22
crashanddie	ok, let's end this discussion right here, guys	11:22
lejonet	Yes, I actually have both installed	11:22
jacekowski	-bin?	11:22
lejonet	of OOo, but not for gimp	11:23
lejonet	but that is because OOos build process is borked and cannot be multithreaded due do bad build scripts from Oracle(former Sun)	11:23
lejonet	gimp took about 11 mins to build on an Core2 Duo SU7300	11:24
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crashanddie	lejonet: last warning before you're quieted, I don't care about it, nor does the channel	11:24
lejonet	Well like I said before, I might be missing an USB module, i'll check my kernel	11:24
jacekowski	waspy today	11:24
lejonet	He asked, but I see your point, my apologize	11:24
crashanddie	it's just that the whole gentoo debate team has been round here plenty of times, and I'm tired of the flaming and burns it causes	11:25
lejonet	ooh?	11:25
crashanddie	lejonet: I could also ask you to quote last 80 pages of the bible, not sure you'd do it, right?	11:25
vltR	hello.. could anyone help me to mount ftp destination on N900 ?	11:25
crashanddie	so "he asked" really is about as strong an argument for blaming someone else as "he started"	11:25
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lejonet	Well I wanted correct his statement about Gentoo not being a normal distro, it is as normal as any else, just it is not for everyone	11:26
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crashanddie	I'm pretty sure most of the internet knows that	11:27
lejonet	I just hate the stupid comments you usually get when you mention that you use gentoo	11:27
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jacekowski	i wonder if i'm still banned on #paludis	11:29
lejonet	why did you get banned there? (I dont use it anyway :P)	11:30
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jacekowski	about 4 years ago	11:31
jacekowski	when paludis was new and barely worked	11:31
jacekowski	i joined that channel	11:31
lejonet	according to some it still barely works :P	11:31
jacekowski	and said hi, and asked when paludis would be usable	11:31
jacekowski	that was all	11:32
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lejonet	Well yeah, I have heard horror stories about the paludis devs :P Does not surprise me	11:32
crashanddie	\	11:32
crashanddie	\	11:32
crashanddie	\	11:32
crashanddie	\	11:32
crashanddie	sorry	11:32
crashanddie	cleaning keyboard	11:32
jacekowski	crashanddie: now kick yourself	11:32
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jacekowski	lejonet: at the time it was only one dev	11:33
Ford_Prefect	<giggle>	11:33
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jacekowski	and well, i was using gentoo at 1.6Ghz amd	11:33
lejonet	jacekowski: ouchies :P	11:33
jacekowski	but then my motherboard died	11:33
jacekowski	and other mobo had problems with that cpu	11:34
jacekowski	so i had to use 850MHz duron	11:34
lejonet	haha that is a huge bummer	11:34
jacekowski	and i still remember 30h build of open office	11:34
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lejonet	Well like they say in gentoo-chat, no one with their sanity actually compiles OOo, unless they got an monster machine :P	11:34
jacekowski	or 10 minues of calculating dependencies for emerge -avDN world	11:35
jacekowski	hmm, n should be lowercase	11:35
jacekowski	no	11:35
lejonet	nope	11:35
lejonet	-DuvaN	11:35
lejonet	for upgrading	11:35
Ford_Prefect	Should still be less, unless your HDD was a pos	11:36
jacekowski	Ford_Prefect: 4 years ago portage was slow	11:36
Ford_Prefect	Or your metadata cache was completely b0rked	11:36
jacekowski	well, it's still slow, but 4 years ago it was worse	11:36
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jacekowski	esspecialy with coupld overlays	11:36
jacekowski	loads of packages installed	11:37
Ford_Prefect	jacekowski: I was using it 4 years ago too, on a PIII running at 550 Mhz :)	11:37
lejonet	jacekowski: found the missing link, it was an kernel module missing :P	11:37
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* crashanddie wonders whether #maemo isn't obvious enough as a channel name		11:37
lejonet	USB gadget driver lol :P	11:37
* crashanddie renames #maemo to #gentoo-offtopic for the time being		11:37
Ford_Prefect	Nah, it would have to be #maemo-offtopic. We're completely on-topic for a Gentoo channel :p	11:38
* Ford_Prefect cuts it out		11:38
lejonet	crashanddie: My sincere apologies, I did not mean to create an gentoo discussion, but I have now found what was causing my N900 to not be found	11:39
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lejonet	the wiki is editable by registred users right? I might add that you need to make sure you have that module unless you use an distro that have most stuff in the kernel as modules like Arch, Puppy and Ubuntu	11:41
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RST38h	moo all	11:42
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timeless_mbp	lejonet: how do you not find your n900?	11:42
timeless_mbp	isn't it in your pocket?	11:42
lejonet	timeless_mbp: not atm, its on the table :P But my computer wasnt aware of that :P it was happily unaware	11:43
jacekowski	lejonet: it's editable by all	11:43
defragger	is there any useful personal wiki for maemo available?	11:43
lejonet	jacekowski: i'll just add it then	11:44
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alterego	win: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10940342	11:50
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Khertan	Hi !	12:23
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lcuk	hey Khertan \o	12:26
Khertan	how do you do ?	12:26
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kosick	hi, does anybody know, if it is possible to get a complete fullscreen for the terminal? Without that "controlbar" or maybe like the disapearing one in the browser?	12:31
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timeless	if you writey our own terminal? sure :)	12:31
kosick	challenge acepted ;-)	12:31
lcuk	hey guys, apparantly I cannot ask this in #debian, so I will ask here	12:32
lcuk	<lcuk> Hello debian-gods! I have a question.. In a package (foo) I have a Depends: field which specifies a package name only (bar) without mentioning version. If the user already has an old version of this package installed am I correct in thinking that even if a newer bar package is available on the repository, it will not be pulled down and installed and the package will happily install continuing with the older one?	12:32
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lcuk	(replace debian gods with maemo gods ;))	12:32
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lcuk	I broke liqbase package updates with this and I want to make sure I set it correctly this time	12:33
crashanddie_	lcuk: yeah, that's my assumption as well. I would ask in #debian though :P	12:33
hrw\|gprs	#debian-devel or #ubuntu-devel	12:34
hrw\|gprs	1Mbps internet link suxx	12:34
lcuk	hrw\|gprs, better than a 0Mbps link ;) I like your connection method btw	12:35
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lcuk	o_O I think frals has morphed into a debian god	12:36
lcuk	* jpinx-eeepc slaps lcuk around with a fresh trout	12:36
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timeless	lcuk: it depends on the package manager	12:38
timeless	but yeah ham doesn't eagerly update	12:38
jpinx-eeepc	lcuk: :p	12:38
timeless	just provide a newer package w/ a stronger dependency	12:38
lcuk	yeah timeless that was thinking but remembering to set it afterupdating the library is a problem and the package template currently does not specify a version	12:39
timeless	lcuk: btw, you might consider having a user/ meta package	12:39
timeless	which has absolutely no data, just dependencies	12:39
timeless	that way you can force an update of either of your two(+) components	12:39
timeless	w/o forcing hte user to pay for the other one(s)	12:39
lcuk	ahhh timeless good idea	12:40
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lcuk	so if I have 10 apps which are installed using unversioned it won't matter	12:40
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MohammadAG	facebook, the most f'd up thing I've seen	12:40
lcuk	because as soon as I update the meta package for hte library then it will be updated anyway	12:40
* MohammadAG leaves again		12:40
lcuk	thats a really good idea, thanks	12:40
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BCMM	i'm making a replacement boot video	12:41
ptmn_	Oh shi-	12:41
BCMM	i've read a nice wiki article or forum thread about how to correctly encode them, but i can't find it now	12:42
BCMM	can anyone help?	12:42
ptmn_	hildon-thumbnailerd eats 100% of CPU!	12:42
BCMM	also, can it be done with mencoder?	12:43
chem\|st	ptmn_: after boot or after you took a picture?	12:44
ptmn_	after boot	12:44
chem\|st	there is a bug for you... 2secs	12:44
ptmn_	i removed some pics and it's ok now	12:44
chem\|st	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10558	12:44
povbot	Bug 10558: hildon-thumbnail eats CPU after powerup without any change to files	12:44
RST38h	Well...	12:45
chem\|st	had no time yet to strace it if you like to you are welcome	12:45
RST38h	You do know there is a setting in Tracker "disable initial media scan when running on battery"?	12:45
RST38h	chem\|st: This is not a bug. It is a ...mhm...feature	12:45
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chem\|st	RST38h: It has no button for normal users so it is a bug	12:46
lcuk	hmm RST38h you got the info on that setting??	12:46
RST38h	chem\|st: The whole Tracker is a bug then	12:46
chem\|st	RST38h: yes	12:47
RST38h	lcuk: It is documented right there, with a comment	12:47
* RST38h agrees with chem\|st on this		12:47
chem\|st	;)	12:47
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RST38h	chem\|st: How about disabling Tracker completely and making a desktop button that says "Scan media NOW"?	12:47
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chem\|st	this darn thing starts scanning after I took a single picture and freezes desktop for about 3 mins	12:48
lcuk	jpinx-eeepc, what other handhelds do you have at the moment?	12:48
RST38h	yep, there is no way to make more than one photo at a time	12:48
lcuk	(and btw, there is an easy-debian chroot available for use within maemo :)	12:48
RST38h	because once the thumbnailer kicks in, you are toast	12:48
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chem\|st	RST38h: no, that damn thing should at least have a database for filesystemchanges to check back onb	12:49
RST38h	it does	12:49
chem\|st	RST38h: I took two pictures and wasn't able to do anything anymore...	12:49
MohammadAG	lcuk, syntax error, expecting ")"	12:49
TomaszD	"20.2010.23-6"	12:49
TomaszD	interesting	12:49
MohammadAG	TomaszD, hmm, what?	12:50
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TomaszD	that bug report	12:50
chem\|st	I scanned one barcode wanted to look it up at dhl.com and as soon as I hit the browser it was all toast	12:50
lcuk	MohammadAG, you are a syntax error	12:50
RST38h	chem\|st: When you make a picture, there is a new media file in the fs, so Thumbnailer bites into it	12:50
MohammadAG	lcuk, sniff, sniff	12:50
RST38h	chem\|st: And once it does, your disk data pipe is clogged	12:50
MohammadAG	hmm, xchat isn't opening links in the damn browser	12:51
chem\|st	RST38h: I know...	12:51
RST38h	chem\|st: blocking anyone trying to swap there, so the system hangs	12:51
TomaszD	we need those desktop responsiveness patches applied to the kernel	12:51
RST38h	Mohammad: it does, actually. Hold, then select from menu	12:51
chem\|st	shouldn't it check if there are already thumbs for all other pics in that folder?	12:51
RST38h	Mohammad: Got that a few days ago though it was a bug	12:51
RST38h	chem\|st: It only scans one new picture afaik	12:51
chem\|st	RST38h: that does not take several 10 seconds does it?	12:52
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RST38h	chem\|st: There are two places where you can tweak things to make them more responsive	12:52
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RST38h	chem\|st: As I said, disk data pipe is very slow, so things get clogged fast	12:52
lcuk	MohammadAG, your system will catch up and open 20 windows soon	12:53
MohammadAG	lol	12:53
RST38h	chem\|st: 1. Reduce swappiness from 100 to 30 2. Reduce tracker activity from 1 to 20 and tell it not to hog memory	12:53
MohammadAG	RST38h, on my laptop lol	12:53
RST38h	Ah	12:53
* MohammadAG hands RST38h a shotgun		12:53
RST38h	chem\|st: this is not the perfect fix of course, but your N900 will become mighty responsive, even in Fennec ;)	12:54
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MohammadAG	three things, trackerd, watchdogs, and the thumbnailer	12:54
MohammadAG	actually, 4, apt-worker	12:54
RST38h	Mohammad: You know I prefer WMDs	12:54
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RST38h	oh yes, the apt...	12:54
chem\|st	oh yes apt worker...	12:54
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chem\|st	where do I change swappiness, I mean the config file	12:56
jacekowski	/proc/sys/vm/swappiness	12:56
RST38h	search tmo for swappiness	12:56
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jacekowski	google	12:56
MohammadAG	yay	12:57
MohammadAG	replaced apt-worker	12:58
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timeless	MohammadAG: why?	12:58
MohammadAG	why not, I don't use it anyways	12:59
timeless	you don't use it?	12:59
MohammadAG	no	12:59
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timeless	explain?	12:59
MohammadAG	I don't use HAM	12:59
ilius	hi, how to copy a text in the maemo (mozilla-based) browser?	12:59
timeless	so why do you care about it?	12:59
MohammadAG	cause it auto updates repos	12:59
timeless	ilius: google interaction modes?	13:00
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ilius	timeless: what?	13:00
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timeless	ilius: there are some videos which act as introduction to the n900	13:01
timeless	you should watch them	13:01
chem\|st	jacekowski: the config...	13:01
jpinx-eeepc	lcuk: none - the N900 will be my first :)	13:01
timeless	http://www.youtube.com/user/Maemo5UITeam is the videos i guess	13:01
* timeless wonders if they don't actually talk about the browser :(		13:02
lcuk	jpinx-eeepc, :)	13:02
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ilius	timeless: i cant find anything. thats not a input field to select and Ctrl+C	13:04
ilius	the problem is that its not selectable	13:04
timeless	i think http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qkXBMOyvtU works	13:05
lcuk	ilius, in messaging, just click the individual message. it opens in a window on its own with a specific dedicated copy button ;)	13:05
chem\|st	ilius: swipe from left and use the mouse...	13:06
timeless	ilius: watch the last video link i gave you	13:06
timeless	it's at 1:12	13:06
timeless	or 1:26	13:06
lcuk	but the jedi swipe to enable select mode is indeed a jedi feature	13:06
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chem\|st	RST38h: so you think swappiness 30 will do good?	13:07
ilius	hmmm i can not open youtube right not, i see it lator	13:07
ilius	*later	13:07
chem\|st	lcuk: I am a Jedi!	13:08
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rmrfchik	this n900 is not phone what are looking for	13:08
lcuk	rmrfchik, the n900 is indeed the phone you are looking for	13:10
lcuk	just like a light sabre, you make it into what you need	13:10
rmrfchik	the phone it is not	13:10
rmrfchik	the mobile computer it is	13:10
MohammadAG	buy a 3310	13:10
hrw\|gprs	MohammadAG: 3210+vibra would be better I think	13:11
MohammadAG	hrw\|gprs, when you switch to 2.5G do you change nicks to \|EDGE?	13:12
chem\|st	RST38h: so for tracker I tell LowMemoryMode=true, indexing -> throttle 20 (current is 10... been there)	13:12
chem\|st	anything else?	13:12
rmrfchik	MohammadAG: lemme guess... NO! Conenctivity api don't allow you to do it ;)	13:12
RST38h	chem\|st: I know swappiness 30 is good	13:13
RST38h	chem\|st: Yes, for tracker, although I am not sure how much good it does =(	13:13
hrw\|gprs	MohammadAG: now it is hrw\|3.5g according to n900	13:13
chem\|st	well my desktop got it at 10 my netbook at 60...	13:13
RST38h	chem\|st: But with the lower swappiness I can actually use Fennec.	13:13
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chem\|st	but there I have at least 2GB real RAM	13:13
hrw\|gprs	MohammadAG: 1.25 / 0.36 Mbps	13:13
rmrfchik	RST38h: why u need fennec?	13:13
RST38h	It controls how proactively the kernel swaps pages out	13:14
rmrfchik	opera/microb are much faster than fennec	13:14
* rmrfchik can't find use for mobile firefox		13:14
RST38h	Given that our disk is so damn slow you do not want to do that very often	13:14
timeless	rmrfchik: depends what you're doing	13:14
RST38h	rmrfchik: there are reasons	13:14
hrw\|gprs	rmrfchik: I do not see a use for microb. only opera here	13:14
rmrfchik	can you share?	13:14
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rmrfchik	hrw\|gprs: yeah, opera FTW	13:14
chem\|st	rmrfchik: use the force you must young padawan	13:14
MohammadAG	Opera isn't really a good replacement	13:14
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rmrfchik	I use G force.	13:15
MohammadAG	it's an excellent browser, not a replacement	13:15
hrw\|gprs	MohammadAG: so far it is for me. I do not care about flash	13:15
rmrfchik	opera/micob do exellent browser job for me. fennec is so jerky and slow	13:15
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MohammadAG	hrw\|gprs, neither do I	13:16
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Dakon	has anyone an idea how I can enter a WPA2 hex key for my Wifi on N900?	13:16
chem\|st	Dakon: connect and you will be asked	13:16
Dakon	yes, but that field only allows input of 63 characters as the ASCII key would have	13:17
Dakon	the hex key has 64	13:17
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chem\|st	hmm	13:17
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hrw\|gprs	Dakon: open a bug against it. nokia will mark it as wontfix, you will curse them, they will ignore you	13:18
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chem\|st	use a shorter hex key?	13:18
hrw\|gprs	use long ascii key?	13:19
_trine	why would you want so many characters anyway	13:19
chem\|st	using a shorter key isn't less secure but less anoying	13:19
rmrfchik	don't forget to start new whine thread on maemo.org. I will "thanks" you	13:19
hrw\|gprs	gU4arjaxiwqpzjVPJTVLkjurKEcJPemPFaUuycUrbWzTcXcyEktguULJLavKLME for example	13:19
hrw\|gprs	~hail pwgen	13:19
* infobot bows down to pwgen and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"		13:20
rmrfchik	hrw\|gprs: and BSID	13:20
Dakon	I take that as "noone knows, probably unsupported"?	13:20
hrw\|gprs	rmrfchik: essid you mean?	13:20
rmrfchik	yes	13:20
hrw\|gprs	rmrfchik: I use "hrw" as essid. password is overcomplicated anyway	13:20
hrw\|gprs	Dakon: or no one got hit by this yet	13:21
rmrfchik	and your location? going to add essid/password on map "Free WiFi"	13:21
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hrw\|gprs	rmrfchik: first you will have to get my wifi password	13:21
hrw\|gprs	rmrfchik: 53.378266,14.66222	13:22
Dakon	http://bkaeg.org/blog/archives/2010/07/wpa2-passphrase.html	13:22
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Dakon	isn't that uncommon as it seems	13:22
chem\|st	hrw\|gprs: where do you live?	13:22
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hrw\|gprs	chem\|st: check	13:23
crashanddie_	rmrfchik: "free wifi" is the name of the open wireless networks of my ISP	13:24
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chem\|st	Dakon: I could not care less... WPA2 is injected already so why bother with typing 64digits anyways	13:26
Dakon	;)	13:27
Dakon	related problem: how do I type a percent sign?	13:27
chem\|st	use a 2048bit cert or something...	13:27
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chem\|st	fn-ctrl	13:27
BCMM	Dakon: alt, sym, tap the symbol on the screen	13:27
Dakon	ah, got it	13:27
Dakon	thx	13:27
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hrw\|gprs	mgedmin: thx for http://mg.pov.lt/blog/n900-connection-sharing post	13:33
mgedmin	np	13:33
mgedmin	when I wrote it all down, I thought "surely this is too complicated for anyone else to ever even attempt to use it"	13:33
hrw\|gprs	mgedmin: BTDUN works fine	13:34
BCMM	has anyone encoded a working boot video in mencoder?	13:35
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mgedmin	hrw\|gprs, when I last tried it, DUN worked for 15 mins and then dropped the connection	13:39
hrw\|gprs	mgedmin: I use it for 2 hours now. it broke only when I had 10 minutes call	13:40
chem\|st	mgedmin: ad-hoc did work once then lsot connection and wasn't able to get internet before a n900 reboot...	13:40
mgedmin	cool	13:40
hrw\|gprs	mgedmin: and I want to safe battery life as much as possible	13:41
hrw\|gprs	http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/08/12/today-is-gprs-day/	13:41
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Dakon	gngngn I can't believe that I will mistype the password 10 times	13:43
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Dakon	this thing supports WPA2/AES, no?	13:44
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chem\|st	Dakon: my router hang up when I tried to set it...	13:45
chem\|st	not the phone	13:45
Dakon	my router works fine with that for month	13:46
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chem\|st	some setups are not working LMAO	13:46
Dakon	my phone hates me :(	13:47
chem\|st	Dakon: the missing force it feels	13:48
Dakon	I think I should send it back and by an Iphone (cough)	13:50
Dakon	that works with wpa2/aes	13:50
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BCMM	yay! working boot video!	13:53
Jucato	hm ... in Maemo Garage Trove Categorization, why isn't there an option for Maemo 5 under Maemo/Tablet OS version?	13:54
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Stskeeps	people use trove categorization on garage still? :P	13:56
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Jucato	hah dunno. my first project. just following what the email said :)	13:57
Dakon	ok, when I switch back to WEP it works	13:58
Dakon	but with no WPA I have	13:59
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crashanddie_	Dakon: how about WPA with a short password?	13:59
Dakon	I tried that	13:59
Dakon	and it wasn't even cryptic	13:59
crashanddie_	also, check dmesg to see if it's an erroneous password or incompatibility	13:59
Dakon	just "dummesTeil"	13:59
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Dakon	it shows "wl1251: firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.6)" "wl1251: down" "wl1251: 151 tx blocks at 0x3b788, 35 rx blocks at 0x3a780"	14:05
Dakon	for every failed attempt	14:05
chem\|st	Dakon: I got wpaX-* and at n900 all show as wpa	14:06
chem\|st	no matter if wpa2 or PSK or EAP (well eap shows as wpa with EAP..)	14:06
Dakon	I wonder if I there is a firmware upgrade	14:06
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MohammadAG	Stskeeps, apparently, BackupMenu is the worst method to backup a device	14:07
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chem\|st	Dakon: yes... wl1251: firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.7)	14:07
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chem\|st	Dakon: you are running PR1.2?	14:08
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Dakon	no idea, I just took it out of the box	14:09
Dakon	kernel is from december	14:09
chem\|st	Dakon: the FW you update to have	14:09
hrw\|gprs	Dakon: so it is old	14:09
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Dakon	I think so	14:09
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debernardis	hi	14:10
chem\|st	well set something easy on your router like wep or something, upgrade your device to current FW and try wpa again	14:10
MohammadAG	hey debernardis	14:10
debernardis	thanks :) here I'm	14:10
chem\|st	hey debernardis	14:10
debernardis	I could eventually reflash	14:10
debernardis	now back to fsck'ing /home I guess...	14:10
debernardis	hi chem\|st	14:11
chem\|st	debernardis: what happened?	14:11
debernardis	I was stuck in reflashing with a strange error "Write failed after 1048576 bytes usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable"	14:11
debernardis	Fortunately MohammadAG told me to go on trying	14:12
debernardis	and it worked in the end	14:12
MohammadAG	Had the same problem the other day	14:12
debernardis	I solved by re-issuing the flasher command without disconnecting the n900	14:12
chem\|st	yeah I just tried to falsh till it actauly flashed...	14:12
MohammadAG	Though I experimented around with it	14:12
MohammadAG	dd the rootfs, and flashing will fail	14:12
debernardis	yes, BackupMenu was the problem	14:13
MohammadAG	dd'ing /dev/mtd5 was	14:13
debernardis	(I tried to restore my rootfs from the device itself - I think it uses dd)	14:13
MohammadAG	I hope this thing doesn't reach extras	14:13
MohammadAG	yeah	14:13
debernardis	+1	14:13
chem\|st	MohammadAG: was it you telling that you uninstalled multiboot and went to bootmenu?	14:13
MohammadAG	chem\|st, hmm, I uninstalled multiboot on my own	14:14
MohammadAG	long before installing backupmenu	14:14
debernardis	though I'd really like something to make a backup and restore from the device itself	14:14
chem\|st	MohammadAG: thats OT sorry, I was thinking of doing the same	14:14
MohammadAG	debernardis, I tried the whole dd thing months ago	14:15
MohammadAG	brb	14:15
debernardis	didn't find it on the forums while I was in panic :)	14:15
chem\|st	debernardis: a backup and restore running solely from somewhere else than rootfs should do... but that is the problem in this case...	14:15
debernardis	yep	14:16
MohammadAG51	indeed	14:17
MohammadAG51	backupmenu mounts the rootfs	14:17
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Dakon	the firmware flasher always exits with "Unable to enumerate USB buses" after he found the device	14:20
MohammadAG51	hmm, linux?	14:20
Dakon	open("/sys/bus/usb/devices/(null)/descriptors", O_RDONLY) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)	14:21
Dakon	that can't work :(	14:21
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MohammadAG51	libusb installed?	14:22
chem\|st	Dakon: why don't you try OTA upgrades first?	14:22
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Dakon	URL?	14:22
MohammadAG51	Hildon Application Manager	14:22
Dakon	m'kay, will look	14:22
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chem\|st	Dakon: as I said, setup your router to something easy like wep or wpa-psk or not security and upgrade via HAM (app-manager) real quick	14:23
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chem\|st	if your device is freshly OOTB then this won't be a problem at all	14:24
jacekowski	flashing is probably faster	14:25
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Dakon	ok, will need to charge it for a while first	14:26
Dakon	thx so far	14:26
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V13	any guru in hildon-desktop-python-loader ?	14:33
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chem\|st	V13: apt-get purge hildon-desktop-python-loader	14:36
chem\|st	V13: apt-get remove --purge hildon-desktop-python-loader o_O	14:36
V13	:P	14:37
chem\|st	V13: didn't answer you questio`n?	14:37
V13	no	14:37
V13	it says o_O no such package	14:37
V13	:P	14:37
chem\|st	;)	14:38
V13	I've a "conflict" between two python widgets	14:38
V13	and I believe it's a logical error.	14:38
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V13	I suspect that the problem is caused because both widgets create an osso.Context()	14:38
V13	which AFAIK should only be done once per process...	14:38
V13	and it seems that python loader is just one process (no?)	14:39
V13	osso.Context() succeeds, but system_bus.add_signal_receiver fails later saying that there is no mainloop	14:39
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lizardo	V13: yes	14:39
V13	even if I specify one explicitely	14:39
V13	am I doing something wrong?	14:39
V13	oh.. hi lizardo :)	14:40
lizardo	V13: I wonder why you need to use python-osso on your widget?	14:40
V13	I want to use dbus	14:40
V13	In fact I use portrait.py from gpodder which uses dbus	14:40
V13	in order to detect device rotation	14:41
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lizardo	V13: have yoy tried using python-dbus only?	14:41
V13	and the widget conflicts with bluezwitch which also uses the same logic.	14:41
V13	hm.. I'm not very familiar with dbus...	14:41
V13	or osso....	14:41
lizardo	V13: me neither :)	14:41
V13	FWIW, that's the error: Error: To make asynchronous calls, receive signals or export objects, D-Bus connections must be attached to a main loop by passing mainloop=... to the constructor or calling dbus.set_default_main_loop(...)	14:42
lizardo	V13: but I think there are other widgets which use dbus , which might help... (none come to my mind though)	14:42
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V13	ok.. let's see what happens if I remove osso.Context()	14:42
V13	oh.. it is required for RPC.	14:43
V13	so it can't be removed.	14:43
V13	is there a way to get the existing osso context ?	14:44
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lizardo	V13: good question... To discover, I believe you have to take a look at libosso source and see how that context is stored internally	14:45
lizardo	V13: but I believe the libosso RPC parts can be most replaced by using python-dbus directly... BTW, have you tried looking at C widgets that use DBUS?	14:45
V13	ok.. i just tried removing that for a while.. and it failed too.	14:45
V13	so it's not the osso.Context()	14:45
lizardo	V13: maybe hthey have the answer	14:46
V13	do you understand something from the error that I pasted above?	14:46
V13	or suspect	14:47
lizardo	V13: the error itself makes kind of sense (if you look at standalone python-dbus code that receive signals, you will see calls to set the mainloop) but for widgets I really don't know how to do it	14:48
lizardo	V13: my suggestion is to really take a look at other widgets that use DBUS	14:48
lizardo	V13: either C (if you can read it) or python	14:48
V13	lizardo: the widget works very well when bluezwitch is not installed	14:48
V13	so the code works.	14:48
V13	but it conflicts when the bluezwitch is also loaded.	14:49
lizardo	V13: for sure, it is clearly some sort of "conflict" , given that they are all in the same process	14:49
V13	So it's not 100% a dbus problem. It's something that one widget is causing on another	14:49
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V13	since the add_signal_receiver() failes, I believe it's the dbus... but I don't understand exactly which part. I'm looking in bluezwitch's code too right now.	14:50
lizardo	V13: the issue (I think) is that dbus communication is a whole-process thing, so if all widgets share the same process they need to (somehow) manage their dbus connections	14:50
V13	i don't understand why since there can be multiple connections to dbus (no?)	14:51
V13	i don't believe that connections are multiplexed... but of course that's a guess	14:51
lizardo	V13: good luck... if you think it is still some issue specific to python widgets, I would suggest reporting an issue to the PyMaemo bugzilla	14:52
V13	thnks	14:52
lizardo	V13: but my wild guess is that the issue you are facing would happen even to C code, so people from the Hildon team might be able to help you as well	14:53
V13	how can i reach them?	14:53
V13	maemo-developers ?	14:53
lizardo	V13: there is the https://garage.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/hildon-devel	14:53
V13	oh... didn't know about that.	14:54
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lizardo	V13: just be sure to explain the problem in a generic way (i.e. you are trying to use some code that requires an OSSO context, and how to do it in a widget ) , but mentioning you are using Python is ok	14:55
V13	it seems that the problem is not the osso context after all.	14:55
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V13	since moving osso.Context() call a bit latter (after the error-line) didn't change anything.	14:55
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lizardo	V13: ok... in this case try to explain the problem and how far you got in trying to identify the problem... :)	14:56
V13	I'll work on this a little mor	14:57
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Dakon	yeah, firmware upgrade has helped	15:03
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SpeedEvil	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/11/iphone_users_getting_more/	15:18
Weiss	ooooold..	15:19
hatake_kakashi	who cares	15:19
MohammadAG	X-Fade, ping	15:19
X-Fade	MohammadAG: pong	15:19
MohammadAG	X-Fade, problems with permissions on the builder?	15:20
MohammadAG	X-Fade, scp: /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle/vlc-remote_0.1-1_source.changes: Permission denied	15:20
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X-Fade	MohammadAG: Hmm they are owned by somebody else.	15:22
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MohammadAG	X-Fade, umm, so the perms are actually screwed?	15:22
X-Fade	MohammadAG: I think uid mismatch of some kind.	15:22
MohammadAG	X-Fade, so can it be fixed?	15:23
MohammadAG	wow	15:23
MohammadAG	Downloads: 44644 for midnight commander	15:23
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Antti_Alien	hello	15:24
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Everyting can be fixed, it is just a matter of time :)	15:24
X-Fade	MohammadAG: What is your garage username again?	15:24
MohammadAG	mohammad7410	15:24
Antti_Alien	can someone tell me where i could find a list of dbus signals for maemo's browser?	15:24
MohammadAG	it's not my fault usernames have to be lowercase :P	15:24
X-Fade	MohammadAG: And you upload always with scp?	15:25
Antti_Alien	i could only find osso_browser.load_url, but i bet there are more :/	15:25
MohammadAG	X-Fade, yeah	15:25
MohammadAG	X-Fade, dput	15:25
* MohammadAG pokes timeless ^		15:25
Scelt	SpeedEvil: http://apina.biz/32991 - there's N900 too	15:25
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X-Fade	MohammadAG: Can you try again?	15:28
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MohammadAG	X-Fade, uploaded, though it'll most likely get rejected by the builder, thanks :)	15:29
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X-Fade	MohammadAG: Well at least the uid matches now.	15:30
crashanddie	oh, cool, I've won a Nokia award!	15:30
MohammadAG	bastard of the server award?	15:30
MohammadAG	X-Fade, thanks again	15:30
Stskeeps	'most arrogant community member of the year"?	15:30
crashanddie	"GLÜCKWÜNSCHE [ IHRE E-mail HAT GEWONNEN {REF NR.:NOKIA/09876434 } ] !!!"	15:30
crashanddie	Stskeeps: I'm hardly the most :P	15:30
crashanddie	Stskeeps: see, ^ proof that I'm humble in my arrogance	15:31
lcuk	crashanddie, you are condescending too	15:31
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crashanddie	aww :(	15:33
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Antti_Alien	hm, i found a file tablet-browser-interface.h listing some signals, but at least some of them don't exist anymore :E	15:33
lcuk	crashanddie, isnt that your blog title :P	15:34
crashanddie	well, yeah, but that's just the name of the blog	15:34
crashanddie	damn, this is a fine looking helmet: http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6559/casquemototunning.jpg	15:35
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V13	lizardo: Could the problem be this? https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/pymaemo-developers/2010-April/001445.html (it's your post)	15:38
kerio	crashanddie: much better helmet: http://www.okcowboy.net/wp-content/uploads/daft_punk_main.jpg	15:39
crashanddie	kerio: sfw?	15:39
kerio	sfw	15:39
kerio	well, unless your boss hates daft punk	15:40
Dassu	:(	15:40
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lizardo	V13: not exactly the same problem, but I believe your solution might be on that thread	15:42
lizardo	V13: there were in total 3 solutions posted on that thread, each one solving a different problem	15:42
lizardo	V13: you might want to try some of them	15:42
lizardo	V13: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/pymaemo-developers/2010-April/001449.html https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/pymaemo-developers/2010-April/001452.html https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/pymaemo-developers/2010-April/001454.html	15:42
lizardo	V13: these are the 3 solutions	15:43
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* V13 tryign		15:43
* V13 trying		15:43
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lizardo	V13: the last one seems to be a merge of the first two	15:44
V13	lizardo: I'm going for the first...	15:45
V13	(because of the environ[])	15:45
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V13	now trying the hardcoded string since the other one was the session bus and not the system bus	15:49
alterego	I'm leaning towards the ignore feature of tmo to abill_uk at the moment ..	15:49
alterego	Though occasionaly he does make me laugh.	15:49
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V13	lizardo.. If you were near me, I'd hug you	15:53
V13	it worked :)	15:53
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lizardo	V13: nice :D	15:55
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V13	summary: instead of using dbus.SystemBus() or dbus.Bus.get_system(), I used dbus.bus.Busconnect('unix:path=/var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket')	15:55
MohammadAG	lol alterego	15:56
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lizardo	V13: note that this is mostly a workaround to the abscense of an specific method (https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8611) , the bug is not fixed yet, but I think the workaround serves for now	15:57
povbot	Bug 8611: python-hildondesktop lacks get_dbus_connection()/get_dbus_g_connection() methods	15:57
V13	lizardo: FWIW, I'm working on this bug full-time for a lot of days now...From this procedure I found an easy way to debug python hildon-home widgets: f=open('/tmp/mylog.log', 'at', buffering=1); sys.stdout=f, sys.stderr=f	15:57
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V13	lizardo: I'll post a reply with the workaround of that bug. It could save others a lot of hours.	15:58
lizardo	V13: hey, can you add this debugging tip to http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/HildonDesktop#Debugging_tips ? thanks	15:58
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V13	sure	15:59
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GAN900	gerbick and others seem to like professing their ignorance about what issues the council can actually be effective on, yet I'm sure I've had this EXACT SAME discussion with him and others at least three times.	16:04
lcuk	timeless, ping	16:06
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alterego	GAN900: he seemed to get it yesterday, then forgot by the afternoon ..	16:09
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Dakon	I downloaded some files to my phone, saved it in "Documents"	16:23
Dakon	where do I find that in an x-term? /home/user/MyDocs does not have that files	16:23
kerio	Dakon: ~/MyDocs/.documents	16:24
Dakon	ah, hidden ;)	16:24
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Dakon	yeah, marble ;) awesome ;)	16:30
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Lantizia	Anyone seen/got one of these? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9D8cedGr30	16:35
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pigeon	i ordered one.	16:35
Lantizia	pigeon, where from?	16:36
Lantizia	I'm wondering how well it'd work with FPS like OpenArena :S	16:36
pigeon	http://www.home.game-gripper.com/buy	16:37
Lantizia	ah the US site ok	16:37
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PhonicUK	hey all	16:39
PhonicUK	anyone know where the quake 3 1.32c pak1.pk3 -> pakXX.pk3 can be found without installing a full on patch?	16:39
PhonicUK	sorting out q3 for my N900	16:39
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pigeon	https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=626593	16:46
povbot	Bug 626593: was not found.	16:46
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kerio	Bug 404: bug not found.	16:49
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=404 Video player subtitles support	16:49
kerio	hahaha	16:50
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* DocScrutinizer hands GAN900 a lolly (with tequila flavour)		16:51
DocScrutinizer	or would you prefer bacon?	16:52
kerio	tequila-flavored bacon or bacon-flavored lolly?	16:52
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DocScrutinizer	I'm still pondering	16:52
lauri	Hey guys, I have a package in extras-testing	16:53
DocScrutinizer	probably it's becoming more the lolly	16:53
lauri	I can install it via apt-get but the item doesnt show up in app manager	16:53
* DocScrutinizer (C)'s bacon-lollies		16:53
kerio	i want a bacon-flavored tequila	16:53
GAN900	Probably too early in the morning for tequila.	16:53
GAN900	kerio, bacon salt.	16:53
SpeedEvil	I want a bacon flavoured omelette.	16:53
* lcuk has been able to eat first bacon and egg butty in ages today		16:54
lcuk	SpeedEvil, do you use bacon chunks or bacon flavouring?	16:54
SpeedEvil	chunks.	16:55
lcuk	and if its real bacon chunks, do you drop bacon in raw or precooked cut up rashers?	16:55
SpeedEvil	I chop the bacon bits I get into chunks, then brown.	16:55
* lcuk cust bacon into little cubes and mixes with onions like a stirfry		16:55
lcuk	:D	16:55
SpeedEvil	I'm too cheap for rashers.	16:55
lcuk	god I just ate but I am hungry again	16:56
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SpeedEvil	Also - cheap bacon + a little soy sauce, and a tiny bit of brown sugar when frying tastes just like expensive bacon.	16:56
SpeedEvil	Well - sort of.	16:56
GAN900	Ha	16:57
lcuk	fake-en?	16:57
GAN900	The rancid taste is difficult to mask?	16:57
* GAN900 isn't sure what the difference is between cheap and expensive.		16:58
SpeedEvil	At least here, the cheap stuff doesn't taste rancid.	16:58
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SpeedEvil	It's just not cured with a nice cure.	16:58
lcuk	i just go into the forrest and find a wild boar	16:58
GAN900	Hmm	16:58
lcuk	cut up and left to cure in my smoking shed for a few months	16:59
GAN900	Bacon across international borders is weird.	16:59
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lcuk	canadian bacon is like drian ham	16:59
lcuk	its yuck	16:59
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lcuk	dried	17:00
[DarkGUNMAN]	give me uk bacon straight from the local butchers anyday :)	17:02
lcuk	++	17:02
chem\|st	how do I partition my sdcard without touching the first partition on device? (sfdisk, or is there anything else available?)	17:03
SpeedEvil	cfsdisk is available on some repo	17:03
SpeedEvil	I found it more friendly	17:04
achipa	hmmm ... who should I bother with opening new projects on bugzilla ? niels or andre ?	17:04
SpeedEvil	Also - most SD cards would be full.	17:04
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SpeedEvil	No vacant space, so you can't add partitions.	17:04
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chem\|st	SpeedEvil: devel I guess...	17:05
andre__	achipa, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products	17:05
achipa	andre__: yes, that is the page I somehow managed to miss in the search results. thanks	17:06
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: well I dont want to move all the stuff around...	17:07
GAN900	Why are all of these new people following me on twitter. . . .	17:07
GAN900	I don't tweet.	17:07
RST38h	They are stalkers	17:07
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: you mean you want to repartition the internal 32G?	17:07
GAN900	Clearly	17:07
RST38h	And they think you are Samantha Fox	17:08
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: nope I try to get meego on the sd and partittion it afterwards for nitdroid and fat	17:09
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chem\|st	ok now my first partition is the size of my previous fat... darn	17:16
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Lantizia	pigeon, I just ordered one too :) from the EU site	17:21
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GAN900	"You might be surprised how much community council sometimes knows under confidentiality agreement."	17:34
GAN900	Yeah, that's a good one to use on Talk.	17:34
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RST38h	Ah, the Cabal	17:38
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RST38h	Evil conspiracy by the council members to hide Flash 10.x from the N900 users.	17:38
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DocScrutinizer	UK bacon, bah. Andaluz Cerano bacon! Yummy	17:40
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DocScrutinizer	wait, maybe that's ham?	17:41
RST38h	Whois is Andaluz Cerano? Is he legal to eat? =)	17:41
chem\|st	ok other way round... I try to dd the meego.raw directly at the end fingers crossed	17:41
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DocScrutinizer	Andalucia is a region in south Spain	17:42
DocScrutinizer	carno is the name of the bacon	17:42
DocScrutinizer	cerano even	17:42
RST38h	oh <disappointed>	17:42
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: LOL	17:43
chem\|st	RST38h: what ever you like, thats from spain as DocScrutinizer said, the 3 top notches in europe are spain italy and south-west germany	17:43
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: got your asbestos underwear today?	17:43
RST38h	poor scandinavians do not even get participate? =)	17:44
RST38h	s/get/get to/	17:44
infobot	RST38h meant: poor scandinavians do not even get to participate? =)	17:44
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DocScrutinizer	GAN900: who's been the genius to post such brilliant statement?	17:45
GAN900	I dunno, but MY Flash 10.1 works great.	17:46
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer, Peter. . . .	17:46
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, Peter. . . .	17:46
chem\|st	???	17:46
GAN900	Why was that sent twice?	17:46
DocScrutinizer	arrow-up+enter - fat fingers?	17:46
MohammadAG51	LOL	17:46
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: we know you better :-D	17:47
DocScrutinizer	twittering on IRC while the talk goes on :-D	17:47
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GAN900	Somebody want to drop the MyNokia idiocy on Peter re: stonewalling?	17:48
DocScrutinizer	too early for tmo here	17:48
DocScrutinizer	need to bash 5 OC fanboys in IRC first, to get the right adrenaline level :-P	17:49
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: true... I need to be very tired to read 10 pages of such an idiotic thread...	17:49
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RST38h	GAN: It is useless to drop stuff on peter. He is the PR guy, he will snake his way out.	17:50
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RST38h	GAN: Right now, I am inclined toward solutions that in no way involve Nokia. I.e. third party repositories, Maemo5 base packages patched by non-nokians and placed there, outside distribution channels, etc	17:51
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RST38h	internettablettalk.com too	17:51
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* alterego shudders,		17:52
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alterego	Sir Engineer is now suggesting we rename maemo.org to something else, as maemo no longer exists...	17:52
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DocScrutinizer	Sir Engineer? The allmighty?	17:53
jacekowski	why does t.m.o defaults to american date format?	17:53
alterego	:)	17:53
Ford_Prefect	ma emo dot org -> u r emo dot org?	17:54
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: because they couldn't find any more fsckedup format, except maybe unix jiffies, and they'd be too long	17:54
Ford_Prefect	Sorry :)	17:54
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alterego	Shouldn't that be your mom?	17:54
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* achipa wonders if doing X tunneling via ssh to start vmware which runs a virtual machine hosting scratchbox is the right way to develop software for Maemo		17:55
alterego	achipa: been there, done that :P	17:55
* DocScrutinizer wonders if he can be bothered to find the URL and open up that thread once again... but nah		17:56
alterego	DocScrutinizer: I can give you the URL if you like :P	17:56
achipa	alterego: how many beers does it take until it becomes accetable in speed over an ADSL uplink ?	17:56
alterego	I wouldn't I'm quite ashamed now of how he's made me react ..	17:57
alterego	achipa: Hah, you mean how many beers per-pixel you'll have ?	17:57
DocScrutinizer	In the end who cares about notion of a few noobs and id.... regarding council?	17:57
alterego	Yeah	17:57
DocScrutinizer	I'm pretty happy with those guys around my daily IRC :-D	17:58
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alterego	I support the council 100%	17:58
DocScrutinizer	ack	17:58
alterego	I don't think there's any need for any reform now.	17:58
DocScrutinizer	btw...	17:58
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: news from quim?	17:58
alterego	I'm quite happy that the MeeGo guy said he still wants a MeeGo council.	17:59
alterego	Probably one of the 3 posts that are actually interesting in that thread.	17:59
RST38h	alterego: but as inconsequential as the rest of them	17:59
DocScrutinizer	OMFG meEgo guys on tmo - it's doomsday	17:59
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alterego	Heh	18:00
alterego	Nokia guy on tmo	18:00
alterego	The Nokia MeeGo guy	18:01
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lcuk	it does help if you use his real nick so people understand who you mean	18:01
* RST38h chants "Doomsday! Doomsday!" while getting some marshmallows		18:02
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	18:02
Stskeeps	will someone please maim abill_uk soon	18:03
alterego	You'd think it was the end of the world	18:03
lcuk	mm	18:03
DocScrutinizer	abill_uk is an agent. You need to be Neo to maim him	18:04
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RST38h	Stskeeps: Who let him out again, anyway? I though he has been banned?	18:05
DocScrutinizer	or enter red-pill-mode and simply close that browser window	18:05
* RST38h misses the original itt nutcases		18:05
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, nothing yet.	18:06
RST38h	New ones are dumb and boring	18:06
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: as usual	18:06
alterego	:)	18:06
alterego	I'd give tmo a rest, but occasionally there is still a lot of interesting stuff.	18:07
alterego	It's just a shame about the noise.	18:07
alterego	Even reading the topics gives me a headache sometimes.	18:07
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, yeah. . . .	18:07
GAN900	Whatever the Nokia guys think, I don't think the Intel people want a council.	18:07
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: tell him hostmode and esp jrbme is waiting?	18:07
GAN900	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=783849&postcount=206	18:08
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: (don't want) that's pretty obvious from general mood over there	18:08
GAN900	Amazingly I'm actually rather agreed with silvermountain there.	18:08
* Stskeeps adds 127.0.0.1 talk.maemo.org to his /etc/hosts		18:09
tybollt	:D	18:09
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	18:09
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* DocScrutinizer adds 8.8.8.8 to Stskeeps' resolv.conf		18:10
alterego	New laptop keyboard is working nice.	18:11
alterego	And it's all shiny, no worn down keys :)	18:11
lcuk	my keys on laptop are all shiney from use	18:11
RST38h	GAN: PR guy. Cannot be bothered with something like this. Will insist on voicing the official corporate message no matter what.	18:11
alterego	Makes my laptop look kinda new again :)	18:11
DocScrutinizer	I ponder to vacuum my kbd once again	18:11
DocScrutinizer	too much bread crumbs	18:12
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lcuk	turn keyboard over, bash a few times	18:14
lcuk	bit more difficult on laptops ofc	18:14
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Stskeeps	and now for the cold turkey of kicking tmo addiction	18:14
alterego	Stskeeps: you wont manage it, you know that right? :P	18:14
Stskeeps	alterego: sufficiently pissed to do it	18:15
Stskeeps	:P	18:15
RST38h	Stskeeps: You will come back	18:15
RST38h	Stskeeps: BTW are you a council member?	18:15
alterego	God ..	18:15
Stskeeps	RST38h: no, thank god	18:15
RST38h	hehe	18:15
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RST38h	ok, I know one permanent fixtu^H^Hcouncil member	18:15
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alterego	He's pushing that name change again, I was sort of joking when I first mentioned his comment on the maemo.org name ..	18:15
alterego	But he's followed it all.	18:16
alterego	s/all/up/	18:16
infobot	alterego meant: But he's followed it up.	18:16
RST38h	GAN900: As a council member, would you consider a maemo.org related proposal?	18:16
RST38h	(and push it up to the management that is)	18:16
alterego	RST38h: a public hanging? :x	18:17
alterego	:D	18:17
lcuk	can someone give a summary of the thread everyone seems to be discussing, I've been a bit preoccupied with other things to notice	18:17
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RST38h	lcuk: There is a poll about Council's relevancy	18:17
* GAN900 considers whether it's worth responding to Peter in that thread.		18:17
RST38h	lcuk: Apparently 49+% consider Council relevant, the rest don't give a fuck	18:17
achipa	GAN900: Intel people wouldn't understand the Council as they don't understand the community either - not necessarily by some evil motivation, they simply never had such a thing. They just had employees and the occasional dev who hang around lists - for that you really don't need a council.	18:17
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luke-jr	achipa: Nokia people never understood the Council either, IMO	18:18
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RST38h	lcuk: This causes both well deserved butthurt to some council members and evil glee in some less psychologically stable members of the community	18:18
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alterego	I don't think a MeeGo council will be what Nokia have in mind, I think Nokia plan on maybe having a Nokia/MeeGo-Community Council	18:18
alterego	Intel don't have to understand it, if Nokia are willing to be our connectivity.	18:19
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luke-jr	what's the point of having a council if they're ignored?	18:19
alterego	Not to mention, the openness of what MeeGo is representing kind of makes a lot of what we see the Council for as redundant, they'll just end up being party hosts :)	18:19
achipa	RST38h: that can be read the other way round, too, you know. Even with a mudslinging contest you couldn't muster more than one fourth of the people visiting to say 'wont miss'	18:19
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RST38h	luke: and thay is exactly the topic of that thread	18:19
timeless	smoke and mirrors has to be good for something, right?	18:19
derf	Gotta pacify the proles.	18:20
RST38h	achipa: Don't forget the people who do not even bother to vote.	18:20
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RST38h	achipa: All these count against the council's relevancy	18:20
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RST38h	achipa: So, no, at the end <50% is not healthy, I am afraid	18:20
lcuk	RST38h, for a poll? nahhh	18:21
RST38h	achipa: And it is not like council can do much about it, given the situation	18:21
lcuk	we elect entire governments on less	18:21
luke-jr	RST38h: IMO, the problem with the council is Nokia's fault, not anyone else's	18:21
achipa	RST38h: sure, but it's easier to muster support for nay than for yea	18:21
RST38h	lcuk: Yea, but we are smart people here, right? And we both understand that people who do not bother basically do not care	18:21
lcuk	i know some around have been listening to community and liaiasing and communicating about things that matter	18:21
RST38h	achipa: Depends :)	18:22
luke-jr	maybe the Council should operate more like a union	18:22
RST38h	Personally, I would be happy if Council sorted out the Extras bottleneck, but even THAT is not going to happen	18:22
alterego	I'd say that the poll is pretty favourable of the council.	18:22
luke-jr	if enough customers give them the authority, they can make demands of Nokia at risk of losing those customers :P	18:22
RST38h	alterego: It is not. Really.	18:22
achipa	luke-jr: is that because of the party thing ? unions around here are more into providing, you know, food, coal, sugar...	18:22
RST38h	alterego: The <50% number is deeply disturbing	18:23
alterego	It also kind of gives us an indication of how many lusers are on the forum :P	18:23
alterego	RST38h: It beats No by 100%	18:23
luke-jr	achipa: they're supposed to negotiate deals ;)	18:23
RST38h	And no, calling everyone you do not agree with a loser is not gonna fix it	18:23
RST38h	alterego: that would be unrealistic	18:23
alterego	luke-jr: are you saying the council are more like anti-terrorists? :)	18:24
luke-jr	whereas one employee/customer cannot make demands of the management on his own, a union allows the employees/customers to team up and make such demands together	18:24
RST38h	alterego: But I would call anything <66% unhealthy	18:24
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luke-jr	the real question is, can the community organize a customers' union of relevant size?	18:24
luke-jr	I think to an extent, that would require agreeing on some common goals and ideals.	18:25
alterego	Yeah ..	18:25
alterego	We just need to build a fence ..	18:25
luke-jr	I think everyone can agree the ideal is completely open	18:25
luke-jr	but there's bound to be disagreement on size, etc	18:25
alterego	luke-jr: I don't :P	18:26
luke-jr	alterego: you'd prefer everything closed?	18:26
RST38h	What Union? What the hell are you talking about?	18:26
luke-jr	RST38h: basically giving the Council some real power	18:26
RST38h	How is your union going to be better than the current council?	18:26
alterego	After what has happened this year, I'd prefer all the "enduser" types were somewhere else.	18:26
luke-jr	alterego: how is that relevant to openness?	18:26
RST38h	That is easy to do	18:26
alterego	luke-jr: freedom of speech? :)	18:26
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achipa	alterego: troll/idiot != enduser	18:26
RST38h	Told you before: either a filter-by-join-date on tmo, or, barring that, a google group with careful membership policy	18:27
alterego	achipa: I know, some are extremely useful and valuable, I like my software being appreciated.	18:27
alterego	etc.	18:27
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alterego	RST38h: filter by join date, hahah.	18:27
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RST38h	I.e. everyone can read, only sane people can post	18:27
luke-jr	RST38h: what?	18:27
achipa	alterego: it's just that one troll/idiot can bother you more than 100 perfectly normal end-users	18:27
RST38h	With the list of sane people updated once every few weeks	18:27
luke-jr	RST38h: how does controlling the community give the Council any power against Nokia?	18:27
alterego	achipa: you've got a good point there, thank you for resetting my perspectivity.	18:27
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alterego	~perspective ..	18:28
RST38h	luke: It does not	18:28
RST38h	luke: It simply frees me from having to read every single idiot	18:28
RST38h	Which is what I care: personal comfort	18:28
RST38h	Intelligent discussion forums, easy way to distribute apps, serious bug reports properly prioritized and addressed.	18:29
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RST38h	As to you "community", "openness", or "union", I do not give a flying fuck. They are issues, I do not do issues.	18:30
RST38h	s/you/your	18:30
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* GAN900 decides not to throw MyNokia at Peter in a public forum.		18:31
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lcuk	GAN900, I think you would need a really strong arm to throw your nokia at Peter, isn't he based in Helsinki still?	18:32
PhonicUK	Anyone know how to switch GTK on the N900 to the default style?	18:33
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alterego	PhonicUK: I don't think the theming works if you run the app as root ..	18:34
alterego	That is, should use gtk default then ..	18:34
RST38h	actually, it does	18:34
PhonicUK	after I installed EasyDebian and changed the theme in there, it changed it too for everything else that uses GTK	18:34
alterego	RST38h: oh well, I just remember someone complaining about it some time.	18:34
alterego	Never tried myself :)	18:34
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lcuk	Dance, its all I wanna do, so won't you dance.	18:36
lcuk	I'm standing here with you so won't you move	18:36
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GAN900	lcuk, yes, Nokia taking undisclosed personal information from people, charging them for the privilage and refusing to address the issue in something resembling this reality is super hilarious.	18:37
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luke-jr	GAN900: thoughts on giving the Council power?	18:38
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timeless	we'll probably send people ads for WidSets	18:40
timeless	i met a guy today who showed me one such ad	18:40
timeless	(in case people aren't aware, WidSets has been dead for a while, but he got the SMS based ad relatively recently)	18:40
GAN900	luke-jr, does Nokia management agree?	18:41
GAN900	I had to introduce myself to Ari twice while wearing a nametag.	18:41
luke-jr	GAN900: I didn't mean in a way they had a choice	18:41
achipa	luke-jr: power for what ?	18:41
luke-jr	GAN900: I mean by having enough customers agree to honour Council boycotts of Nokia and such	18:41
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luke-jr	so the Council can make demands	18:41
luke-jr	"stop this MyNokia crap or none of us will buy the next device"	18:42
achipa	INBANA !	18:42
luke-jr	wtf is that	18:42
timeless	luke-jr: but how else will we reach our target? :)	18:42
luke-jr	…	18:43
achipa	anyway, that will not solve your problem - you can obtain more power to hurt Nokia but that does imply getting what you really want	18:43
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luke-jr	achipa: it does, because they have to make products that will sell	18:44
timeless	nah	18:44
timeless	not a requirement	18:44
timeless	nokia gives products to vendors who have to sell them	18:44
luke-jr	if everyone has agreed not to buy it unless X, then they kinda have to do X	18:44
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luke-jr	timeless: as if vendors sell N90	18:44
luke-jr	N900	18:44
lcuk	facepalm	18:45
achipa	luke-jr: why would they have to ? :) that's like saying politicans should be truthful and modest because that will get them more votes. Yes. Well. Sort of.	18:45
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timeless	i'm told the n900 is one of verkokauppa's best selling nokia products :)	18:45
lcuk	there are of course better ways to do things, like leveraging the community to find ways to motivate and improve sales	18:45
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lcuk	and finding positive aspects in things	18:46
timeless	yeah, i just did ^ :)	18:46
lcuk	glass half empty or glass half full kinda scenario	18:46
lcuk	oh timeless I 100% agree	18:46
achipa	luke-jr: I think the best example is Apple why this don't work	18:46
lcuk	you have spoken about Nokia in a positive light and wanted to improve things for as long as I have known you!	18:46
lcuk	you have introduced more people to speaking clearly than anyone I know	18:47
lcuk	:D	18:47
timeless	:)	18:47
GAN900	luke-jr, too idealistic, I think.	18:48
GAN900	luke-jr, not a poor idea, really, but not realistic.	18:48
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xDaReaperx	Hi	18:55
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luke-jr	considering lcuk's advice, perhaps better would be to sketch up a general design of a device, then let people sign on as "I would buy this for up to $___"	18:58
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luke-jr	maybe a "No. This is why:" comment box :P	19:00
lcuk	nokia already doing that	19:00
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luke-jr	lcuk: I haven't seen any such polls	19:00
GAN900	luke-jr, because you're not a good enough customer	19:01
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GAN900	They don't ACTUALLY want your money.	19:01
lcuk	http://conversations.nokia.com/design-by-community/	19:01
timeless	there was a poll series a while ago for that	19:01
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luke-jr	lcuk: interesting. I see a couple of flaws with the implementation at first glance	19:03
luke-jr	end-users shouldn't decide 'capacitive'; they're too ignorant	19:03
timeless	ah yeah, that one	19:03
luke-jr	they should vote on things like 'multitouch', 'accuracy', 'pressure sensitive'	19:03
alterego	Oh, hahah, like the tags	19:03
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GAN900	luke-jr, seriously.	19:04
luke-jr	GAN900: ?	19:04
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chem\|st	luke-jr: true... I wont buy an capacitive device ever! I will sit and wait for resistive multitouch	19:04
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GAN900	"Oh, capacitive, Apple says I want that. So I want that."	19:04
chem\|st	any...	19:04
luke-jr	heh	19:04
luke-jr	only 8 mpixel? O.o	19:04
* GAN900 hands alterego an "I feed trolls" shirt.		19:04
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* luke-jr wonders if having optical zoom on a handheld is really practical		19:04
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: yes.	19:05
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: but you need to dedicate a reasonable case volume to it	19:05
luke-jr	I suppose if they can make it larger..	19:05
alterego	GAN900: I don't have the post count to do tags :P	19:05
* luke-jr finds his metric ruler		19:05
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luke-jr	wtf	19:05
luke-jr	these dimensions are basically N900	19:06
luke-jr	and they want to add an inch to the screen?	19:06
luke-jr	how does that work?	19:06
lcuk	GAN900, realistically if you want something productive, find a way to get debian packages on all those meego apps in gitorious	19:06
GAN900	Less bezel	19:06
lcuk	and find a way for community to start patching them	19:06
luke-jr	and why the (%#$( did USB 3 get in? IIRC isn't USB 3 not compatible with basically anything?\	19:06
GAN900	lcuk, I don't have any energy for that	19:06
lcuk	then we can be playing with apps from both sides	19:06
ebzzry	Hi! What does the file /dev/mtd4 correspond to?	19:07
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lcuk	well some folks have been having energy from other places	19:07
tybollt	GAN900: pardon me for not reading scrollback but what is the fuzz all about?	19:07
GAN900	and it's not in my area of expertise anyway	19:07
chem\|st	cinemascope screen will fit the 4"	19:07
GAN900	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=783849	19:07
tybollt	GAN900: ta	19:07
lcuk	so perhaps if you have no energy to try something constructive I can understand why the poll reults dont have energy to be positive either	19:07
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GAN900	Weeeeeeee	19:07
GAN900	lcuk, there are things I'm good at and things I'm not good at, .debs and infra are not one of them.	19:08
lcuk	talking with the council you can do though	19:09
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alterego	Talking he can do.	19:09
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alterego	He's very good at talking :P	19:09
lcuk	theres a fuckload of new apps just been dropped on gitorious	19:09
lcuk	they arent in great shape and we cant just run them now	19:09
alterego	lcuk: MeeGo?	19:09
lcuk	but with a concerted effort perhaps we can	19:09
lcuk	yes	19:09
alterego	Schweet.	19:09
* alterego goes to check 'em out		19:10
Stskeeps	there's reference apps to improve	19:10
Stskeeps	:P	19:10
lcuk	Stskeeps, yes, my point	19:10
Stskeeps	and features to be implemented	19:10
alterego	Exactly,	19:10
lcuk	get them running in maemo	19:10
lcuk	and maybe just maybe there will be some more energy	19:10
alterego	The best most of us can hope for is a good MeeGo base UX experience ..	19:10
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lcuk	its fun to boot into meego once in a while or look at the videos	19:11
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lcuk	it will be more fun to be able to cherry pick apps as they mature	19:11
alterego	I doubt we'll inherit anything from Harmatten I guess is my point.	19:11
lcuk	and actually replace bits in small chunks	19:11
alterego	(despite those discussions)	19:11
lcuk	and GAN900 if the council wants to be valued, they best stop talking about themselves as the outgoing, final dead end council	19:12
Stskeeps	alterego: we're actually inheriting a full desktop, lib toolkit, systemui, .. etc	19:12
Stskeeps	more of a platform we ever had in maemo5	19:12
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SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: ovi store.	19:13
SpeedEvil	:)	19:13
lcuk	GAN900, I see kisstester has finally took off, when I was discussing this in the future of maemo meeting a few months ago I was told not to bother	19:13
alterego	Stskeeps: that may be, but MeeGo isn't Harmattan, we'll be using RPM's whilst Harmattan will still be on Debs	19:13
SpeedEvil	...	19:13
Stskeeps	alterego: packaging doesn't really matter.	19:13
Stskeeps	anyway, http://bugs.meego.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=3209&hide_resolved=1	19:14
* SpeedEvil does not get the package managment nazis.		19:14
lcuk	getting testing on the device and along with the apps themselves is something I REALLY like to see happening	19:14
lcuk	its one of the most positive steps in a long time	19:14
alterego	It'll be interesting, because in theory the N900 will be using more up-to-date software than the successor.	19:14
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SpeedEvil	I need to finish off http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_Power_management	19:14
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SpeedEvil	Which is part of the way there to explaining why stuff uses power.	19:14
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lcuk	SpeedEvil, I might want to discuss that with you and someone else	19:15
alterego	Which has got me thinking, I probably wont bother with the next device :)	19:15
SpeedEvil	Hopefully tonight.	19:15
SpeedEvil	lcuk?	19:15
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alterego	Hell, I had to pay full whack for the N900 as I didn't have the karma.	19:15
xDaReaperx	wonders why i keep disconnecting from the IRC	19:15
alterego	I doubt I'll get anything this time around for cheap either :/	19:15
SpeedEvil	I paid full wack too.	19:15
SpeedEvil	Well...	19:15
alterego	So I think I'll just step back and enjoy the N900 as much as Ican.	19:15
SpeedEvil	I paid full wack - minus the 15% accessories discount, minus the 15% nokia club discount, minus the 15% I forget what it was discount, minus 50 quid from cashback, minus 50 quid from a study on usage.	19:16
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xDaReaperx	so how much did you really pay ?	19:16
SpeedEvil	Something like a little under half price.	19:16
xDaReaperx	hmm ok	19:16
SpeedEvil	But that was simply being in the right place at the right time, and risking the discount codes working.	19:17
SpeedEvil	As there was no way I could afford it without them.	19:17
xDaReaperx	haha , i do the exact thing .. i love to Bargain	19:17
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lcuk	Stskeeps, I know end game is full meego	19:18
lcuk	but if you spot any simple mechanisms to get the meego apps running on maemo please speak up	19:18
SpeedEvil	chroot	19:18
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lcuk	SpeedEvil, not practical	19:19
Stskeeps	lcuk: libmeegotouch works..	19:19
SpeedEvil	You said simple. You diddn't say practical.	19:19
lcuk	yeah Stskeeps	19:19
Stskeeps	but yeah, chroot	19:19
lcuk	theres some other deps which are being sorted atm	19:19
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: lcuk: I'd like to join that discussion - even if I maybe have few to contribute	19:43
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, :) of course I already had you in mind	19:43
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trumee	can N900 take a sdhc card?	19:44
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lcuk	its nothing major, just someone was asking me the sorts of questions I know you guys have been answering and thought it would be better to have a proper get together about it and see if we can get some docs tooling processes fixed up better	19:44
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SpeedEvil	trumee: yes	19:44
trumee	SpeedEvil: so it can take both sdhc and micro sdhc?	19:44
SpeedEvil	trumee: No - it can only take micro.	19:45
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trumee	SpeedEvil: http://www.play.com//ProductOutline.aspx?title=4949676&r=ELEC	19:45
trumee	SpeedEvil: will the above work, i have bought this.	19:45
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trumee	SpeedEvil: seems it is only a sdhc card	19:45
SpeedEvil	No.	19:45
SpeedEvil	It's physically about 10* too large.	19:45
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trumee	SpeedEvil: damn it!	19:46
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DocScrutinizer	http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb10-16.html HaHa \o/ flash <3 :-P	19:48
DocScrutinizer	>>Adobe recommends all users of Adobe Flash Player 10.1.53.64 and earlier versions upgrade to the newest version 10.1.82.76 by downloading it from the Adobe Flash Player Download Center or by installing it via the auto-update mechanism within the product when prompted.<< :-P	19:50
lcuk	so can we get every maemo user banging on their doors?	19:51
SpeedEvil	Oh - interesting!	19:51
SpeedEvil	they've released a version of flash 9	19:51
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* timeless sighs		19:52
timeless	there's actually an effort here to try to do something about that for maemo5	19:52
timeless	but it got complicated	19:52
timeless	code is easy	19:52
timeless	nothing else is	19:52
lcuk	yeah timeless	19:52
frals	heh	19:52
lcuk	frals, are you on pmo jabber, might as well play with new toy	19:53
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DocScrutinizer	timeless: nod	19:54
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* frals goes back to sc2		19:55
DocScrutinizer	timeless: seems finally Nokia has to appreciate N900 is a computer and not a closed source cellphone. So like every computer it eventually comes to the point where you need patchdays or whatever, between the major releases of FW	19:55
timeless	um	19:56
timeless	nokia is not a sentient being	19:56
timeless	no matter how much we might wish it were	19:56
DocScrutinizer	:-S right	19:57
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DocScrutinizer	anyway, to join in the trolly mood here, this is another nice topic council coult pick up at	19:57
DocScrutinizer	could*	19:57
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DocScrutinizer	I mean, that's a sevey security issue. Nokia has to address it - otherwise somebody might consider sueing them for all the resulting damage	19:59
DocScrutinizer	severe*	19:59
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Funnyface	I hope that flash will be completely eliminated sooner or later..	20:00
Funnyface	I can't stand it	20:01
Funnyface	hopefully HTML5 will make a change	20:01
timeless	yeah, i hate it when people can watch viral videos	20:01
timeless	it makes me feel so left out	20:01
timeless	it's really terrible!	20:01
DocScrutinizer	no matter how to address it - maybe even by a mail to all users suggesting to disable flash in microb's about:settings or whatever	20:01
Funnyface	what's the security issue of flash "this time"?	20:01
GAN900	HTML 5 in MeeGo?	20:01
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johnsq	Hi	20:03
lcuk	o_O DocScrutinizer	20:03
DocScrutinizer	Funnyface: Critical vulnerabilities have been identified in Adobe Flash Player version 10.1.53.64 and earlier. These vulnerabilities could cause the application to crash and could potentially allow an attacker to take control of the affected system.	20:04
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: ??	20:04
lcuk	nm	20:04
lcuk	timeless, "cat videos of the world unite"	20:05
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timeless	gan900: html5 is like ajax	20:05
timeless	it's a collection of junk	20:05
timeless	you mean html5video	20:05
timeless	but which video format do you want?	20:05
timeless	flv?	20:05
timeless	mp4?	20:05
timeless	ogg?	20:05
timeless	webm?	20:05
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DocScrutinizer	timeless: is there a way to config microb so it won't autoload and play each embedded flash thingie, but rather have a button to click inside the frame saying "start playback"?	20:11
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zash	DocScrutinizer: you want flashblock?	20:13
DocScrutinizer	as malware flash usually doesn't come via the youtube video you clicked intentionally to watch it, but rather by one of the 53 flash animated adds from nobody-knows-where on the side banner	20:13
DocScrutinizer	zash: ooh, yep. probably	20:14
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DocScrutinizer	so probably we should get a recommendation "to all maemo users: please install flashblock. If in doubt, don't playback flash media"	20:16
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DocScrutinizer	also deprecating rootsh in favour of ssh-client/server metapkg which already comes with madatory password, might be sensible	20:19
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DocScrutinizer	or simply pushing a new version of rootsh thru SSU, which has a password setting mechanism like ssh	20:23
kerio	DocScrutinizer: ssh root@localhost?	20:24
kerio	EW	20:24
kerio	what's wrong with su	20:24
* DocScrutinizer wonders why qwerty12 hadn't done rootsh that way, from very beginning		20:24
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: su doesn't work with busybox	20:25
DocScrutinizer	aiui	20:25
FIQ	Hi	20:25
kerio	then here is our problem, isn't it?	20:25
FIQ	About su/sudo/rootsh/whatever	20:25
FIQ	How did i randomly get the possibility to use "sudo" as i do at desktopp	20:26
FIQ	Maybe it was because i changed default shell?	20:26
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: our problem (well one of the problems :-D ) is gainroot doesn't ask for password as of /etc/sudoers	20:26
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FIQ	Ugh, random d/c	20:28
DocScrutinizer	mhm	20:28
FIQ	did my line arrive?	20:28
DocScrutinizer	yep	20:28
FIQ	because i didn't see the answer	20:29
FIQ	if any	20:29
DocScrutinizer	and yep, might be related to default shell	20:29
FIQ	ah, k	20:29
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GAN900	timeless, what did you ping me about?	20:31
GAN900	XChat crashed and I have no scrollback. . ..	20:31
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DocScrutinizer	grep gainroot //etc/sudoers -> user ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/sbin/gainroot	20:34
DocScrutinizer	not a brilliant idea	20:34
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pronto	it would be awesome for the sms app to have an ncurses interface so i could just leave my phone upstairs charging, and ssh to it to send and recieve texts	20:43
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DocScrutinizer	root; grep -q 'root:*' & passwd & sed "s/user ALL = NOPASSWD: \/usr\/sbin\/gainroot/user ALL = PASSWD: \/usr\/sbin\/gainroot/" /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo; echo "who is/does update-sudoers? if it's not done on next boot, you need to edit /etc/sudoers accordingly"	20:53
DocScrutinizer	this is an untested suggestion	20:54
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MohammadAG	pronto, not exactly sms, but I'm working on something that'll help with ssh control	20:55
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MohammadAG	so, need help on that	20:56
MohammadAG	suppose I have:	20:56
MohammadAG	string "general"	20:56
MohammadAG	string "silent"	20:56
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MohammadAG	how do I get the text between the ""	20:56
MohammadAG	so I can get general\nsilent	20:56
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Ford_Prefect	MohammadAG: in bash?	20:58
MohammadAG	yeah	20:58
MohammadAG	well, sh	20:58
MohammadAG	I was thinking awk, but idk the first thing about it	20:58
Ford_Prefect	... \| cut -f 2 -d '"' is one way	20:58
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MohammadAG	hmm, sure?	21:00
MohammadAG	mohammad@mohammad-laptop:~$ echo " string "general"	21:00
MohammadAG	string "silent"" \| cut -f 2 -d '"'	21:00
MohammadAG	string general	21:00
MohammadAG	string silent	21:00
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Ford_Prefect	Change that echo so the first and last " are '	21:01
DocScrutinizer	:-D	21:02
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DocScrutinizer	[2010-08-12 02:27:42] <DocScrutinizer> I'd suggest a >>apt-get install $(apt-cache search microb\|grep " - "\|cut -f 1 -d " ") --purge --reinstall	21:02
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jophish	is it possible to add another user under maemo?	21:04
Ford_Prefect	cut \m/	21:04
Stskeeps	hmm, how many mb/s is the mmcs supposed to pull generally?	21:04
DocScrutinizer	err 11 ?	21:05
DocScrutinizer	don't quote me on that	21:05
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DocScrutinizer	speedevil or ShadowJK or cehteh might know better	21:06
* Stskeeps ponders idly why i/o utilization on his bootchart shows 52 mb/s then		21:07
jacekowski	more than 11	21:08
jacekowski	i had like 15M/s write	21:08
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jacekowski	so it has to do more in read	21:08
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lcuk	[MeeGo-dev] Making meego fast - quick tests and lots of input needed http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-August/004797.html	21:12
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E0x	how i can do something like this in python : for i = 1 o 5	21:14
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E0x	( vb :D )	21:14
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baraujo	E0x, for i in range(1,6)	21:14
baraujo	oops	21:15
baraujo	E0x, for i in range(1,6):	21:15
DocScrutinizer51	making meego fast? simple: make maemo fast, then port to meego	21:15
E0x	i try that but i got a error , but i think is because the last number is inside of var	21:15
E0x	and say something about that get a float type	21:15
kerio	range(x) is 0...x-1	21:15
kerio	range(a, b) is a...b-1	21:15
SpeedEvil	Who was playing with the sound subsystem 'directly'.	21:15
SpeedEvil	I forget.	21:16
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kerio	well, it returns an iterator that's iterated through by for	21:17
lcuk	DocScrutinizer51, indeed	21:17
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lcuk	lots of things run well now	21:17
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trumee	guys, anybody knows what micro sdhc plus is? http://www.play.com/Mobiles/Mobile/4-/12761327/Samsung-8GB-Micro-SDHC-Plus-Memory-Card/Product.html	21:17
lcuk	meego, not so much from what I see	21:17
kerio	a range() object	21:18
kerio	in python3	21:18
trumee	The card above is a samsung 8 gb class 6 card, but micro sdhc plus is scaring me off. will it work with N900?	21:18
trumee	here it is http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/memory-cards-hdd-odd/memory-card/micro-sd-plus/MB-MP8G026/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=specification	21:19
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trumee	15 mm by 11mm by 1mm, is that microsdhc?	21:19
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crashanddie	trumee: eh?	21:20
trumee	will that fit into N900?	21:20
trumee	crashanddie: http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/memory-cards-hdd-odd/memory-card/micro-sd-plus/MB-MP8G026/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=specification	21:20
crashanddie	trumee: if it says microSD, it'll fit	21:20
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trumee	crashanddie: what is micro sdhc plus?	21:20
jacekowski	btw. do we know who's manufacturing rapuyama?	21:21
crashanddie	trumee: marketing	21:21
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trumee	crashanddie: thanks	21:22
DocScrutinizer51	jacekowski: TI?	21:23
crashanddie	trumee: if you buy it in a B&M shop, ask the salesman for confirmation, in case it doesn't work you can exchange it	21:24
jacekowski	is that official info or just assumption?	21:24
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DocScrutinizer51	semi official assumption, as a TI engineer was involved in chip development	21:28
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SpeedEvil	It looked like a TI/nokia project.	21:30
SpeedEvil	Somewhat at least in-house for nokia	21:30
jacekowski	well, it uses same code signing as other ti chips but is it just maybe licensed technology	21:31
SpeedEvil	http://www.visualcv.com/fgoeusse	21:31
SpeedEvil	see that	21:31
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jacekowski	well, it looks like nokia is quite big client for ti	21:34
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jacekowski	- "Nokia Business Unit Architecture Department"	21:34
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VDVsx	RST38h, still in mordor or the situation is better now ? :P	21:45
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timeless	DocScrutinizer: there might be a flashblock, flashclicktoplay, or noscript	21:49
timeless	any of them should work	21:49
lcuk	timeless, i never asked - the thing that needs kicking needs kicking	21:50
lcuk	I will remind you daytime tomorrow	21:50
DocScrutinizer51	timeless: mm k, was more of a suggestion rather than a question	21:50
timeless	lcuk: yeah, your timing sucks :)	21:51
timeless	but you can use the other thing for pinging since it hits my phone directly	21:51
lcuk	I tried earlier	21:51
lcuk	and frals is crap at passing on messages ;)	21:51
lcuk	sure	21:51
timeless	doc: um... microb is a dead end	21:51
timeless	and the future product already supports at least noscript	21:51
timeless	so as suggestions go, i don't see it going anywhere else	21:52
timeless	no need	21:52
lcuk	it would be nice to get flashblock there	21:52
timeless	alreadyfixed	21:52
* lcuk has a stake in that		21:52
lcuk	well, a code fix at any rate	21:52
timeless	http://www.0xdeadbeef.com/weblog/2008/07/flashblock-port-to-microb/	21:52
lcuk	awesome url	21:52
lcuk	i know its on microb	21:53
lcuk	but I meant on future thing as you just mentioned :P	21:53
timeless	hrm, flashblock hasn't been ported to fennec?	21:53
DocScrutinizer	timeless: this is about a hotfix bandaid to cope with the adobe flash vulnerability threat	21:53
timeless	well.. tell someone to get hoping	21:53
lcuk	i dunno	21:53
timeless	https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/mobile/search/?q=flashblock&cat=all&lver=any&pid=1&sort=&pp=20&lup=&advanced=	21:54
lcuk	i didnt know thats what you were implying	21:54
timeless	s/hoping/hopping/	21:54
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Corsac	DocScrutinizer: not sure nokia actually cares about security updates for fremantle	22:06
DocScrutinizer	they damn better did, it's not something a company can afford to gamble with	22:07
kerio	does nokia care about a broken usb port?	22:07
Corsac	DocScrutinizer: as if they cared about old, dumb phones	22:07
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kerio	actually	22:08
kerio	does nokia care care about a broken usb port?	22:08
Corsac	DocScrutinizer: think about all the flawed bluetooth stacks which were never patched	22:08
DocScrutinizer	yup	22:08
DocScrutinizer	:-S	22:08
kerio	who uses those	22:08
Corsac	kerio: a lot of people	22:08
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kerio	those lot of people should learn to turn the bluetooth off	22:09
Corsac	kerio: that's a workaround, sure	22:09
DocScrutinizer	that's exactly the rationale to consider this a minor threat	22:09
kerio	but they're idiots who bought a smartphone to be cool, so...	22:09
Corsac	kerio: but some people actually use bluetooth :)	22:09
Corsac	kerio: I didn't talk about smartphones	22:09
Corsac	a lot of dumb phones have bluetooth	22:10
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DocScrutinizer	still BT vuln isn't a distance problem	22:10
DocScrutinizer	flash vuln over IP is though	22:10
DocScrutinizer	diff like a sling to a nuklear device	22:11
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DocScrutinizer	afk	22:11
DocScrutinizer	o/	22:11
lcuk	\o	22:11
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MohammadAG	jacekowski, what was the sys/procnode that used to test all 3 LEDs?	22:18
MohammadAG	I remember you asked us to cat it	22:18
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alterego	Is it possible, in QML to do something like: "width: parent.width / parent.children.length()" ?	22:52
alterego	Basically, how can I get the length of parent.children list ? @_	22:52
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TomaszD	ok, this I didn't know http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsp6dR-fL4A	23:00
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E0x	what i need restart for get update the widget list ?	23:12
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lcuk	TomaszD, hehe	23:13
kerio	what do i need to restart to update the widget list	23:13
lcuk	alterego, not sure, wouldn't that need the same sort of thing as html? ie a javascript block!	23:13
alterego	lcuk: that's sort of what I was thinking	23:13
lcuk	kerio I don't know which list you mean	23:13
alterego	I suppose I can stick it in an onload initialization func	23:14
alterego	I think he's talking about Qt Creator	23:14
alterego	In which case, yes :)	23:14
kerio	lcuk: read more scrollback	23:15
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lcuk	E0x, same question :P	23:16
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E0x	hehe sorry	23:20
E0x	the list of available widget	23:20
kerio	widgetS	23:20
E0x	when you go to add one	23:20
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: what? test all 3 LEDs?	23:47
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: clear proof of E0x's pidgin is better than your English :-P	23:50
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: when 9 pidgin speakers and 1 native english speaker join in a conference, then in the end 10 people go away with a clear idea about the points of 9 of the 10 people :-D (sic!)	23:53
kerio	DocScrutinizer: i'm not a native english speaker	23:53
kerio	i'm italian	23:53
kerio	born in italy, living in italy	23:54
DocScrutinizer	the point holds true nevertheless	23:54
kerio	hold this point	23:54
DocScrutinizer	and I never stated you'd be a native englsih speaker	23:54
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trem	nite all, sweet dreams	23:57
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