IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-07-31

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SpeedEvil - my repositories00:00
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nox-i have your last line and apt-get update complains about a 404 :(00:01
DrIDKso, good night..( french).... I m going to sleep! ( I hate packaging!!) So,Thank you for supporting00:01
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SpeedEvilSometimes repos are down00:02
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nox-ah ok00:03
nox-akamai troubles then?00:03
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tripzerook... releasing a 2.0 version of an IDE that depends on a library that's still in beta screams "we don't want you to actually, yanno, *use* this"00:10
mortiniwelcome to the new world order.00:10
mortiniuse gmail?00:10
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luke-jrtripzero: so true00:14
luke-jrmortini: GMail has got to be the most popular crap software ever00:14
tripzeroi mean... i want to use qtcreator 2.0, but I'd rather not screw over my desktop by installing qt 4.7...00:14
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: eeeew, 20300:15
jacekowskiluke-jr: what is your problem with gmail?00:15
luke-jrjacekowski: you obviously haven't looked at the source00:15
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tripzerohas anyone?00:15
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luke-jrtripzero: you can derive some idea of it from the pages it serves you00:15
jacekowskihave they published it?00:15
jacekowskior we are talking about different gmail00:16
* tripzero can't imagine anything complex written in javascript to be "pretty"00:16
luke-jrspecifically, GMail serves different HTML/JS for each browser it supports00:16
luke-jron IE, it uses ActiveX00:16
jacekowskigmail is using that gwt00:16
jacekowskiso javascript is generated automaticaly00:16
luke-jrthe point is it outputs browser-dependent "code"00:18
luke-jrwhich is broken by design00:18
luke-jrsince it doesn't work in a generic undefined standards-compliant browser00:18
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crashanddiesure it does00:31
crashanddiethey have a standard output, but "optimised" output for different browsers00:31
crashanddieany browser I know of can display the basic HTML interface00:31
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crashanddieAnd that's rule #1 of intelligent web design. Don't ask people to change their browser, tell them there is a better way, but give them access nonetheless00:32
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ds3thou shalt not use javascript00:32
crashanddieIt's a whole lot better than all those fuckwads who decided to use flash as a means of browsing a website00:32
ds3or flash or ...00:32
crashanddiejavascript is fine, and it's an open standard.00:32
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_llll_i would tink a lot of phones struggle with javascript (luckily not maemo ones)00:33
crashanddietake a good toolkit such as jquery, on a good cdn (so that it's already cached in the browser), and full on -- hardly any website load, and you can get very nice effects for the browsers who can (and want to) display it, but also falls back gracefully if it doesn't00:33
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crashanddieman, nobody giving me a good argument these days00:39
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crashanddienobody replying to my semi-trolling on the neopwn thread, and nobody challenging my views here in #maemo, WHAT'S UP PEOPLE???00:39
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GAN900crashanddie, ssh.00:49
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crashanddiewhere the fuck you been, dog?00:49
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* SpeedEvil pours treacle on crashanddie and releases the puppies.00:52
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technomikegot xarchiver working. i know this sounds absolutly stupid but i did not realise you have to install unrar AND xarchiver00:55
technomikewell xarchiver and unrar00:56
technomikefor xarchiver to work with rars00:56
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NeverMoreCan anyone help me with cross compiling a kernel?01:04
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Osamaim trying  to Build package in madde and i get thies error in pic01:08
Osamaany idea ?01:09
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ds3javascript is a bad idea...01:18
ds3javascript, flash, java, etc are a very brown technology and should be abolished01:18
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NeverMore"Module.symvers: No such file or directory"   Any ideas? Anyone? Pretty please?01:38
muddhey does anybody know how to uninstall NITdroid?01:39
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mortiniluke-jr: you mean other than Windows?01:39
crashanddieGAN900: around?01:42
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crashanddieds3: you're the bad idea01:43
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tripzeroNeverMore, do you have your kernel modules installed?01:45
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NeverMoreI believe I do, but do I need them installed to compile the kernel?01:45
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tripzeroNeverMore, you are trying to compile a kernel?01:46
NeverMoretripzero: yes01:46
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NeverMoretripzero: shouldn't make create Module.symvers?01:47
tripzerodid you make {oldconfig,menuconfig,foo}?01:47
NeverMoreoldconfig,  n770_defconfig01:48
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jacekowskihmm, omap version in n900 has hardware cryptography01:53
GAN900crashanddie, just about to get off work.01:53
jacekowskiand it would be nice if it could be used to have encrypted filesystem without performance impact01:53
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NeverMoretripzero: think I got it. put 'undef CONFIG_MODVERSIONS' in modversions.h02:00
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magick777what's the proper way to go about raising a feature request on an extras package, specifically telepathy-idle?02:23
magick777does that belong on bugzilla with severity 'enhancement', or where does it go?02:23
magick777want it to support NickServ GHOST command02:24
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DocScrutinizertalk to Robot10102:29
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* DocScrutinizer wonders whom to /kick, to celebrate sysadmin day02:29
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DangerMaushey Fuzzydabear02:30
DangerMauserrr... sheepbat02:31
DangerMauswait wrong channel02:31
DocScrutinizerwhile the real sysadmins sitting in pub nearby, trying to empty the vodka bottles, I sit here and cure my stomach. Seems I'm a wannabe-sysadmin :-P02:32
ShadowJKI had something like that earlier02:32
DangerMaushead to the pub02:32
DangerMausyour just a slave02:33
DangerMauswell paid slave02:33
ShadowJKthen I drank 2 litres of water and some ibu and I felt worse for a while, and then beer was fine again02:33
ShadowJKoh wow, that sounds like an alcoholic02:33
ShadowJKdehydration :x02:34
DocScrutinizerDangerMaus: neither is true - paid is zero, slave is not DocScrutinizer02:34
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sheepbathello DangerMaus02:35
DangerMaushmmm just for fun02:35
DangerMausbest way02:35
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DocScrutinizerand for the "head to the pub" bit: I'm just back home from over there, as I couldn't stand the 2 litres of tap water I had to swallow to keep the 2 vodka I was invited for02:36
ShadowJKmy tap water is pumped out of the ground next door to a place that pumps bottled water for all the major brands :>02:38
DangerMausmy tummy is on the fritz too this wekel02:38
jacekowskii'm too old for that stuff02:38
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: here we probably got the best tap water of the world, still I hated it when I was in that pup02:39
jacekowskinot so long ago i could drink over 1l of vodka just like that and have no hangover the following day02:39
DocScrutinizerpub even02:39
jacekowskiproper 40% polish vodka02:39
jacekowskinot the stuff that freezes in freezer02:39
SpeedEvilThe way to avoid getting a hangover is simple.02:39
jacekowskiit's stupid way02:40
SpeedEvilYou get someone to wake you up every hour, and administer a small glass.02:40
jacekowskiyou have to drink02:40
ShadowJKI've only once done 1l vodka, that was to celebrate becoming civilian again :>02:40
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yeah with proper stolichnaya or absolut or sth like that, some 5 years ago no problem02:40
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DangerMausi likethe spring water fromthe new england areaa02:40
SpeedEvilFortunate to have really nice water here in Scotland.02:41
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jacekowskidoes it glow at night?02:41
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: in taipei (openmoko apartment) I had decent Absolut frozen from fridge :-D02:41
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DocScrutinizerwas FINE02:41
SpeedEvilIf exposed to light during the day.02:41
ShadowJKAbsolut :)02:41
SpeedEvil(Water in sunlight gets a slight seperation of OH and H ions, these recombine at night.02:42
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jacekowskii've heard that stuff is scotland is so radioactive that it's getting overy any norms02:42
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you know fairy tales :-D02:42
SpeedEviljacekowski: Blame russia! Chernobyl did noticably increase the radiation.02:43
* DocScrutinizer still wonders whom to /kick02:43
ShadowJKI think scandinavia got more fallout, not sure :)02:44
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ShadowJKThe radiation safety authority still publishes reports on the radiation levels of mushrooms02:44
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DangerMausthey all died02:44
jacekowskiso you're not denying the fact that stuff in scotland is glowing at night?02:44
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DocScrutinizerha, that's been fun!02:45
ShadowJKNah you need some serious levels of radiation before you can see glow02:45
SpeedEvilIt only glows when I drop my fissionlight in it.02:45
jacekowskiShadowJK: it's not that high02:45
jacekowskiShadowJK: you can see glow of whatever is used in smoke detectors02:45
ShadowJKnever seen any in mine :(02:46
jacekowskijust drop it into water02:46
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jacekowskii mean just that radioactive bit02:46
jacekowskiand you will see it glow in blueish colour02:46
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: there are several kinds of smmoke detectors02:46
jacekowskibecause of cherenkov radiation02:46
DocScrutinizercherenkov is photon cone of over-lighspeed particles :-) just like >1mach bang02:47
SpeedEvilAlso - the eye has a very non-zero background noise.02:47
jacekowskibut when i saw that 1st time live i was quite surprised how bright is it02:48
SpeedEvilSo even though the water might emit a photon, unless it's very statistically significant, you're not going to see it02:48
jacekowskiand i saw it trough like a 1m thick lead glass02:48
DangerMausohwell off to the pub02:48
DocScrutinizereye is capable od detecing something like 10 photons to each of 10 receptors - amazingly low02:48
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SpeedEvilDepends also significantly on training interestingly.02:49
jacekowskiwell, i'm not sure about specific design02:50
jacekowskibut as far as i know it's core in lead and then in water02:50
DocScrutinizerlook into a 100Ws electon flash tube and you'll probably not see the sun for 20 min02:50
jacekowskiwith glass around it02:50
jacekowskiand you could see core glow02:51
ShadowJKIf I'm in the dark, and I'm trying to like detect movement nearby, i mostly see the noise, and the brain tries to make it into something02:51
luke-jrmortini: ?02:51
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i think camera was inside outer shield02:53
jacekowskibecause the one i saw was little bit less bright partialy because it was trough quite thick lead glass02:54
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mortiniluke-jr: < luke-jr> mortini: GMail has got to be the most popular crap software ever02:55
mortini^^ you mean more than windows?02:55
luke-jrmortini: actually, in some ways, yes02:55
SpeedEvilThe eye is really quite sensitive. A microwatt light source is quite enough to not bump into large things if you walk slowly.02:56
SpeedEvilmost of the stars in the sky light the earth with around 1 billionth of a watt per square metre.02:57
jacekowskibtw. cherenkov radiation is the thing that's used for neutrinos research02:57
crashanddieSpeedEvil: as long as it's in the right spectral range, 10nW is enough to make out objects02:57
SpeedEvilI _think_ the lightsource I was testing is about 200nW - and that was quite fine02:58
DocScrutinizerthat one is friggin scary
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crashanddieif you have the luxury to have a completely black room (which is rare), you'll know how it feels to really see utterly nothing (you'll actually start having "flashes" of light, caused by the pressure of your blood and the lack of information coming from your eyes)02:59
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: why is it scary?02:59
SpeedEvilbrain winds up the gain till you see hte noise02:59
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ShadowJKI've been in completely dark hole before, with the only illumination being the stars, obscued by trees :-)03:00
ShadowJKears were more useful03:01
SpeedEvilYou can - under the right conditions - see the shadow cast by venus03:01
crashanddiea lot of people have been able to see the direction of vegas from over 300 miles away, during overcast nights -- the light bounces off the clouds and off the ground. Another neat trick is to use long exposure during clear nights. Exposure of 30s at around f2 will allow you to spot most cities because of the light they emit towards the sky (the camera actually picks up the light being catching on the humidity in the air, causing03:02
jacekowskiwhat was the name of that pair of two stars03:02
SpeedEvilThe Olsen twins?03:02
jacekowskiblue and orange one03:02
crashanddiehe said stars03:02
Ken-YoungBeta Cygni03:02
crashanddieever heard of a pair of three?03:02
SpeedEvilI guess he has that on highlight. :)03:02
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SpeedEvilOh - that reminds me.03:03
SpeedEvilI need to try astrophotography with PR1.203:03
SpeedEvilI tried it with 1.1, stacking frames, but it diddn't work03:03
SpeedEvilAnd yes, it's very, very silly - but meh.03:04
crashanddiewell, you need good 1s exposures really03:04
crashanddiewell, depends on your focal length really03:04
DangerMausso doc i used the internal gps today forgot to brimgthe external reciever wow it usd the battery up03:04
SpeedEvilAnd a sensor that is not hopelessly noisy.03:04
crashanddiewhat is the n900's focal length? Something like 30mm?03:04
SpeedEvilmore like 303:04
crashanddiewell, I'm talking in 35mm equiv03:05
SpeedEvilI think you mean F number03:05
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ShadowJKCan you filter some of the "static"/"invariable" noise away by taking multiple exposures with the sensor blocked as reference?03:05
crashanddieno, I don't03:05
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crashanddieShadowJK: yup03:05
SpeedEvilShadowJK: In principle yes. In practice, there was _way_ too much noise03:05
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ShadowJKI never quite figured out a ImageMagick recipie for doing that :-)03:05
jacekowskiit's called stacking03:05
crashanddiejacekowski: erhm, no it's not03:06
SpeedEvilShadowJK: 1000 photos only reduce the noise by 30 times.03:06
jacekowskii used to do it with old panasonic or philips camera03:06
jacekowskito make some night photos of sky03:06
ShadowJKBut like, there are some pixels that are /always/ brighter than other pixels03:06
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crashanddieShadowJK: yeah, when the sensor is being used, the power that runs through it makes it heat up03:06
ShadowJKAnd when you stack, you see nothing except those brighter ones03:06
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jacekowskidepends on definition of brighter03:06
crashanddieShadowJK: so the longer the exposure, the higher the temp (the actual outside temperature is taken into account too)03:06
SpeedEvilYou stack frames with the sensor covered, then stack them with it uncovered.03:06
SpeedEvilyou subtract the averages03:07
* ShadowJK got some usable thunderstorm video with PR1.2 in night mode anyway03:07
Ken-YoungShadowJK, That's why you take a "flat frame" of a blank white object.03:07
SpeedEvilAnd yeah - that03:07
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jacekowskibtw. i have question about one of buttons in that button thingy in top menu03:07
crashanddieI don't like stacking03:07
SpeedEvila 'bright' frame (well - very dim) to work out sensitivity at very low brightnesses.03:07
crashanddieI don't mind long exposures though03:07
jacekowskiit looks like a keyboard03:07
ShadowJKWell a "flat frame" or a calibration frame or whatever.. to take into account the constant difference between subpixels03:07
jacekowskiwith red/green circle in bottom right corner03:07
jacekowskiwtf is it?03:07
jacekowskiand what installed it?03:08
crashanddieSpeedEvil: ever tried multiple exposures?03:08
ShadowJKjacekowski, do you have lfocus?03:08
crashanddieSpeedEvil: I had an epiphany today, hang on, lemme link03:08
ShadowJKlive focus?03:08
ShadowJKit sounds familiar03:08
SpeedEvilI tried stacking 1000 dark, and 1000 live images03:08
SpeedEvilit did nothing.03:08
Ken-YoungWe need to experiment with cooling the N900 for astrophotography.03:09
crashanddieSpeedEvil: not stacking, multi-exposure:
luke-jrhow do you do video with N900 anyhow?03:09
crashanddieluke-jr: settings, video03:09
crashanddieluke-jr: I mean, in the camera app03:09
crashanddieluke-jr: there's a menu where you can select iso sensitivity, and WB03:09
ShadowJKluke-jr, what do you mean?03:10
achipaSpeedEvil: what did you use for stacking ?03:10
DocScrutinizerIt actually took me some time to figure as well03:10
luke-jrShadowJK: making video files03:11
SpeedEvilachipa: pnmarith, and pnmtools generally03:11
DocScrutinizerclick on wrench, select automatic-video03:11
luke-jrI see no Video in settings03:11
achipahm, have not tried them for astrostuff... that's mostly registax land03:11
DocScrutinizernot in SETTINGS, in CAMERA03:11
luke-jryeah, in Camera Settings03:11
luke-jrI see White balance, ISO sensitivity, Exposure, and Resolution03:11
DocScrutinizerdamn, the botton two03:12
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DocScrutinizerin PR1.2 genuine cam03:12
ShadowJKluke-jr, camera app. Icons on right: X (close camera app), MODE (Tap to select camera modes), Microphone (TAP to enable/disable mic), Settings Wrench (yada yada), Playback (launch media player)03:12
luke-jrthat's what I have…03:12
crashanddieluke-jr: sorry, not wrench anymore, on "A"03:12
DocScrutinizererr, sorry, not the wrench03:12
crashanddieluke-jr: the top one03:12
DocScrutinizerthe 2nd from top icon on the right03:12
achipaSpeedEvil: did you stack full size images or from a video ?03:12
SpeedEvilachipa: fullsize images03:12
ShadowJKicons on bottom left: time/exposures remaining, General Settings, Quality, EV03:12
ShadowJKMODE is like  "A" by default03:13
ShadowJKautomatic photo03:13
achipaSpeedEvil: asking since I wanted to experiment with that but did not have a clear sky ever since fcamera was released...03:13
crashanddieguys, get a decent camera, good lens, sturdy tripod03:13
crashanddiereally, a lot more fun than with the n90003:13
achipacrashanddie: erwhat ? for astrophotos ?03:14
SpeedEvilIt's not in the expectation of results.03:14
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: N900 still more fun than nuttin at all03:14
SpeedEvilYou don't teach a pig to sing expecting it'll be a good singer.03:14
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: true03:14
SpeedEvilJust that with autotune, it'll go double-platinum.03:15
zeltakhya guys..i have a question since i still very new. lets say i want to install a cli program that i use alot on my nix machine but its not on the does one do has an ubuntu deb but i assume that wont work right?03:15
Ken-Youngcrashanddie, THink of the satisfaction we'll have when we detect transiting planets around nearby stars with our N900s!03:15
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jacekowskiyou teach pig to sing, add autotune and you get singer that everybody likes03:15
crashanddiesandbags to make the tripod hold well, remote control for the camera (admittedly, the n900 can help for that, for specific cameras), loads of coffee, lock-up the mirror and go for it03:15
SpeedEvilzeltak: Is the deb for arm?03:16
zeltakits deb. lets say i want to use ncdu03:16
achipacrashanddie: with a large cam it's actually more difficult to do the stacking stuff... there is a reason why shooting planets with USB cams was a revolution a few years back03:16
zeltakthere are lots of cool cli apps i use daily that have debs..but i understand they wont work on maemo with a simple dpkg right?03:16
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ShadowJKzeltak, So there are different processor architechtures. There's x86, x86-64, PPC, ARM, Sparch, what have you....03:17
crashanddieachipa: no the only reason is that USB cams don't die after 150k shutter actuations03:17
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crashanddiezeltak: the deb format can contain loads of different things (it's like a zip file, with a decent structure). It can contain binaries for anything ShadowJK cited.03:17
ShadowJKStuff compiled for Sparc wont work on PPC, stuff for x86 or x86-64 (your 32bit or 64bit PC) wont work on ARM03:17
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luke-jrstuff for ARM works on my x86-64. the same principles could be applied in reverse03:18
ShadowJKThis is the biggest issue. Beyond that, there's the issue whether it's compatible with the other software present on the phone03:18
luke-jrjust need to setup qemu-user right03:18
crashanddieluke-jr: please don't confuse people03:18
ShadowJKsure, but it's a pain, and it's slow03:18
ShadowJKand by slow I mean "wait half a day for it to respond"03:19
jacekowskiapple rosetta03:19
luke-jrShadowJK: for CLI apps?03:19
luke-jruh no03:19
zeltaki think an vm for a curses progra mis an over kill isnt it :)?03:19
luke-jruser-mode emulation isn't that slow03:19
jacekowskiluke-jr: cpu has to be emulated03:19
luke-jrzeltak: qemu-user only emulates the CPU, not the whole machine03:19
jacekowskiJIT would be nice03:19
achipacrashanddie: err.. no ? You can record a bazillion frames in video mode on a DSLR today, and still, the usb cams do better03:19
luke-jrjacekowski: qemu is JIT03:19
ShadowJKqemu does jit03:19
jacekowskisince when?03:19
ShadowJKsince forever?03:19
jacekowskithat's new for me03:20
achipacrashanddie: you need video with SMALL pixels, as weird as it sounds03:20
luke-jrthat's the *point* of qemu03:20
crashanddieachipa: i'd like to see that :)03:20
zeltakso how difficult for a neewb would it be to set up then (is qemu the only option then for cli stuff?)03:20
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luke-jrzeltak: to my knowledge, nobody has actually setup qemu-user on N90003:20
zeltaki see thats def not for me :)03:20
jacekowskilet me just build it03:21
jacekowskiand see how it works03:21
zeltaka bit disappointing..i thought that at least terminal/ncurses apps would be easy to run on the terminal03:21
zeltakjacekowski: cool thx03:21
ShadowJKzeltak, the best option would be to recompile the app for N90003:21
crashanddieachipa: my main point is that you can't put decent glass on a usb cam. You can on an SLR. As you said, recording the images isn't an issue, and diminishing sensor resolution isn't a problem either.03:21
ShadowJKif it's open source it should be "trivial" to do in the SDK03:22
ShadowJKThough getting the SDK installed is non-trivial :)03:22
zeltakShadowJK: i have done some recompiling under nix (not alot granted) is it similar? to you config, make, make install?03:22
achipacrashanddie: glass on usb ? what glass ? :) anyway, I already mated my N900 with my Skywatcher ED and let me tell you, it does a very decent job03:22
ShadowJKWell, once the SDK is installed and you figure out how to actually "go into" the SDK...03:22
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ShadowJKMind quoting the full filename of the .deb you'd try install?03:23
DocScrutinizer to, all genuine PR1.2 with nightmode and several different whitebalance and exposure settings. Shot them the dumbass way, with one hand, standing (as worse as it gets)03:23
zeltakhmmm sure i havent tried to install it yet but one sec03:23
achipacrashanddie: though I'm not sure I understand the decent glass part - you're supposed to stick it to a telescope/eyepiece, and that part does the 'real work'03:24
crashanddieachipa: not stacking, but a different kind of photography I'm quite into03:24
DocScrutinizermoon always got a red phatom spot03:25
zeltakShadowJK: for example "ncdu" in the ubuntu repo is that what you mean in quoting?03:25
nox-wow seems the n900's cam is not that bad... :)03:25
achipacrashanddie: heh, timelapse, always fun03:25
crashanddieachipa: that's one of the best TL videos around03:26
luke-jrN900 strikes me as a "Jack of all trades" tool03:26
ShadowJKzeltak, nope03:26
ShadowJKzeltak, but if you've added repos, any repo with "x86", "i386", "x86-64", "amd64" in their name wont work03:26
luke-jrlow-end digital camera, low-end GPS, low-end FM radio, low-end phone, usable for light computing03:26
zeltakanother really cool program (that i reccomend to all of you is task warrir):
luke-jrgreat budget combination device03:27
zeltakShadowJK: nah i havnt added the repos of not that new ..lol03:27
luke-jrI would prefer a "Polymath" equivalent (excelling in all areas), but nobody makes that ☺03:27
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ShadowJKzeltak, have you checked out easy-debian?03:27
achipacrashanddie: it's cool all right, no complaints here :)03:27
ShadowJKIt's a more user friendly way to run whatever is in debian03:27
zeltakluke-jr: i find the camera spectaculr compared to ALL of my prev phones03:27
zeltakeasy debian seemed intimidating :)03:28
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luke-jrzeltak: N900 isn't a phone03:29
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nox-`ubuntu done right'? :)03:29
luke-jrzeltak: I'm comparing it to *digital cameras* in that area ;)03:29
luke-jrzeltak: there are plenty of 8 MP and 12 MP digicams03:29
luke-jrand probably better03:29
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zeltaki see well compared to a then maybe but u had a n97,htc 3gtouch etc..and they all sucked compared to the m900 camera03:30
luke-jrso a Polymath device would have at least 12 MP back-camera, better phone (MMS, conference calls, etc), better GPS (offline routing, audible driving directions, locate food on the route, etc), and fully usable as a handheld computer (keyboard you can write code with)03:31
ShadowJKmegapixels doesn't make something better :-)03:31
ShadowJK12 megapixel cellphone sensor is about as good as a 2 megapixel DSLR sensor03:31
luke-jrShadowJK: I'm assuming the accompanying camera hw is on par w/ MP03:31
luke-jrzeltak: N97, etc are phones03:31
achipacrashanddie: the reason small-sensor cams are good for planet-style objects is that you're (as funny as it sounds) in effect shooting macro - and the N900 does pretty well in that department03:31
luke-jrzeltak: N900 is not a phone03:31
Ken-YoungYes it is.03:31
zeltakisnt it..i could have sworn i purchsed a phone when i got it on ebay ;-)03:32
luke-jrzeltak: eBay isn't strict on such marketting terms03:32
zeltakbut i see what u mean luke-jr it really is much more powerfull then a phone :)03:32
Ken-YoungEnven Nokia calls it a phone in some contexts.03:32
achipait's a medieval religion. you either die fighting for it or defending it, eh ? ;)03:32
luke-jrespecially since it doubles as a low-end phone as one of its funcitons03:32
zeltakeven steve jobs'es "SUPA-PHONES" ..lol03:32
achipaHSUPA !03:33
luke-jrN900 is as much a GPS as it is a phone ☺03:33
DocScrutinizerafaik N95 and N900 share same 5MP camera module03:33
luke-jrand digital camera, etc03:33
Ken-YoungObjects can belong to more than one class.03:33
DocScrutinizerand pict quality is comparable03:33
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jacekowskihmm, it's building03:34
luke-jrKen-Young: nobody calls iBooks cameras, even though they have that function03:34
zeltakjacekowski: cool :)03:34
luke-jrMacBook Pros03:34
jacekowskihmm, static build is a no go03:34
achipaDocScrutinizer: wha ? what do you mean same module ?03:35
SpeedEvilThe n900 camera is not 5 'real' megapixels - that is - it cannot resolve 5 actual megapixels.03:35
SpeedEvilachipa: the plug-in camera03:35
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: even if you change the camera mode to 5 MP?03:35
SpeedEvilIt has 5 million pixels.03:35
achipayou mean the connector/layout surely, not the sensor ?03:35
SpeedEvilluke-jr: There are 5 million light sensors. The lens is too small physically to allow it to resolve 5MP03:35
DocScrutinizeracidjazz: how many different interpretations of my sttaement do you have in mind?03:35
luke-jrSpeedEvil: lenses are optical. optics doesn't have a limit to resolution03:36
jacekowskiit does03:36
jacekowskiat that size everything get's fuzzy03:36
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jacekowskiand you can't let enough light in03:36
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* achipa feels he got confused with acidjazz :)03:37
luke-jroh well03:37
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: sure optics has limits, why do you think they use ultra hard UV for exposing the 35nm masks of chips?03:37
luke-jrmy 8 MP digital camera sits unused now03:37
luke-jrbecuase it doesn't apply GPS info to pictures03:37
luke-jrand upload them to Facebook in a click03:37
DocScrutinizeracidjazz: sorry, meant for achipa03:38
luke-jrthis jack-of-all-trades device excels in two things: diversity and integration ☺03:38
achipaDocScrutinizer: it sounded like you wanted to say they share the same module, as in same sensor and all03:38
DocScrutinizerthat's what I seem to remember03:39
SpeedEvilachipa: there is a spare part list somewhere that lists a crossreference to a couple of phones.03:39
achipaDocScrutinizer: the N900 has this et8k dynastron, and I'm pretty sure the N95 has a micron cmos sensor...03:39
SpeedEvilachipa: As in the same exact part number fits different ponoes03:39
SpeedEvilI don't think it was the n95 thogh03:39
DocScrutinizerachipa: maybe I'm totally wrong, then nvm03:40
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achipaDocScrutinizer: google says Micron MT9P001 for N95 and AFAIK the dynastron is quite a bit newer03:40
achipa(not that it matters)03:40
achipa(as the pictures *are* comparable)03:41
jacekowskiat the moment we reached point where it's optic that's limiting phone cameras capabilities03:41
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SpeedEvilThe camera is a 5MP imager, with a Dual LED flash. It is compatible with the N96, N85, N79 and N90003:41
SpeedEvilAh - though the ref I linked to for that is now down03:42
achipajacekowski: I though the biggest limit was the human factor, wanting to take photos in the worst possible conditions and applying the worst photography techniques03:42
* DocScrutinizer mumbles N95, N96 all the same cr....03:43
achipalet's see what the N8 can do :)03:43
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DocScrutinizerfsck N803:43
achipa(too bad we won't see hacks like the fcamera for it)03:43
DocScrutinizerfsck N8's OS, to be specific03:44
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DocScrutinizerachipa: seen my links above? seems tha applies to all of them03:45
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zeltakso i think ill give up on installing cli apps myself..what curses/cli u guys are using and can recommend?03:45
DocScrutinizerstill I think it's *amazing* for a crappy little sensor in a phone03:45
luke-jrzeltak: … you need to tell us what kind of app you want03:45
DocScrutinizerthat friggin thing has almost better nightview than my good eyes have03:46
achipaDocScrutinizer: yeah, don't know about N96 and all, just did play a bit with the N95 and don't recall it be the same family...03:46
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achipaDocScrutinizer: almost ? it sure does better than MY eyes :)03:46
SpeedEvilachipa: the n95 is not the same sensor - see the above list03:47
DocScrutinizerwell, I got exceptionally good eye vision03:47
SpeedEvilUnfortunately I forgot to save a copy of the page03:47
achipaSpeedEvil: yes, yes, we established that :)03:47
zeltakwell i would love a  good todo lsit (task warrior) that i could sync between the n900 and th pc?03:47
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SpeedEvilAh - ok - sorry - I'm mostly asleep03:47
zeltakthats a killer cli app03:47
achipaDocScrutinizer: I have an exceptionally good vision, too, at least up to about 25cm from my face... :D :(03:47
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luke-jrzeltak: sync what? with what program?03:48
DocScrutinizerI need to hold N900 xchat at least at 60cm distance to read fuently, on a 11PT NOKIA font03:48
zeltakluke-jr: a todo list (see
achipaSpeedEvil: I'm sleepy too, too much beer, and a will have to wait for 10 more minutes for IT crowd to start... prolly will fall asleep watching :)03:49
luke-jrzeltak: oh, that's easy03:49
luke-jrI just use nano :D03:49
luke-jrand scp03:49
luke-jractually, I really use fish kioslave on my desktop03:49
zeltaki see03:50
DocScrutinizeranybody capable of playback on desktop linux? how?03:50
zeltakif one was to try to "compile" app for the cli is that difficult or pretty straightforward?03:50
achipaDocScrutinizer: plays back for me...03:51
achipaDocScrutinizer: flash 10 ?03:51
DocScrutinizerbrowser? flash version?03:51
SpeedEvilachipa: iplayer03:51
SpeedEvilachipa: Oh03:51
SpeedEvilachipa: I guess you're not actually in the UK on reflection of the current time.03:52
DocScrutinizerhmm, when I try to "update to newest flash player" on FF, it tells me some rap about "already installed, but key doesn't match" or somesuch03:52
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luke-jr"Videos are unable to play. Either you have an older version of Adobe's Flash player, or javascript is turned off. Update to the latest Flash player."03:52
achipaDocScrutinizer: ffox 3.6, flash 10.103:52
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: exactly03:53
achipaDocScrutinizer: ubuntu 9.10...03:53
DocScrutinizerupdate fails03:53
nox-plays fine here on freebsd even03:53
achipaI stocked up on 64bit flash 10.1 before they pulled it03:53
achipayou do know that adobe pulled 64 flash 10.1 for linux ?03:54
nox-you like security holes? :)03:54
luke-jrstocked up? O.o03:54
nox-(not that flash ever is/was secure...)03:54
* luke-jr refuses to install Flash03:55
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DocScrutinizeradobe flash player yeah noversion-great-suckers03:55
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: exactly03:55
* nox- wouldnt use it without something like noscript either03:56
* luke-jr doesn't use it period03:57
DocScrutinizer  ->  barfs and fails03:57
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achipaluke-jr: installed/updated it and put aside a cache of .debs .rpms for case of reinstalls03:58
achipabut they should be kicked in the nuts for their modus operandi03:58
nox-i agree tho should adopt <video> tags :)03:58
nox-at least for the browsers that support it...03:58
luke-jrmy N900 just made some laserbeam sound03:58
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luke-jrno visual clue wtf it means03:59
achipaluke-jr: swapping while messaging, are we ? :)03:59
nox-plugged charger in?03:59
luke-jrnox-: like 30 mins ago03:59
luke-jrachipa: N900 is always swapping ☹03:59
achipaokay folks, showtime... 9904:00
DocScrutinizerheader V3 DSA signature: NOKEY f6777c67 package adobe-release-i386-1.0.1.noarch is already installed04:01
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ShadowJKlaserbeam sound, "Charging" sound?04:01
DocScrutinizerthanks for the info04:01
ShadowJKThough that typically activates screen in PR1.2, after displaying the banner first, before activating screen, of course04:02
ShadowJKor activating,dimming screen, then displaying banner on dimmed screen04:02
luke-jrmine remained off04:03
luke-jruntil I touched it04:03
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JackBeSlowSo with the ovi store now open does that mean there are two separate stores with separate approval processes?04:40
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jogaJackBeSlow, can you elaborate?04:44
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JackBeSlowBasically just wondering how people get apps into the ovi store.04:45
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jogawhat do you mean, "ovi store now open"?04:45
jogasorry, I don't know about that04:45
JackBeSlowI know the process for the normal repos.04:45
JackBeSlowAlso just wondering why anyone would chose to post a free app in ovi store over the normal repo.04:45
JackBeSlowAnd by "now open" I mean for a while it couldn't be accessed on the n900 and there were no apps.04:46
jogaoh :)04:46
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zeltakwierd im issuing : apt-get install gcc g++ make binutils dpkg-dev less build-essential04:56
zeltakbut it says its not in the repos..04:57
SpeedEvilyou need the sdk repos installed for many of those04:57
zeltaki see SpeedEvil04:58
zeltakim trying to compile ncdu myslef as a test case..i hope im not jumping waaayy over my head :)04:58
SpeedEvilwhat's ncdu04:58
zeltaki small cool cli tool i like04:59
zeltakwhere can i find info on the sdk repo?05:00
jacekowskizeltak: read the manual05:00
jacekowskizeltak: it's the same repo05:00
jacekowskiyou need tools repo as well05:00
zeltakha? which manual?05:00
jacekowskiand sdk repo05:00
jacekowskion wiki05:00
zeltakoh ok there is an entry on the sdk repo05:01
zeltakthx jacekowski05:01
SpeedEvildeb fremantle/sdk free non-free05:01
jacekowskiand you have to remember to disable vdso05:01
jacekowskior you will have lot of random shit happen05:02
SpeedEvilI recommend copying / to /home/user/chroot or something - then doing build there05:02
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: I managed to install that friggin flashplayer plugin 10.1, even works with sound now :-)05:02
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: you mean the faked one05:02
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: proper flash 10.1?05:02
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: prolly you don't give a shit05:02
zeltakwhats you think im way over my head (im a neewb at compiling etc..)05:02
jacekowskifor maemo?05:02
DocScrutinizeron laptop!05:02
jacekowskizeltak: that's virtual library provided by kernel05:02
zeltaki never used chroot before05:03
DocScrutinizersorry for being fuzzy05:03
jacekowskizeltak: that's selecting the best way of calling kernel functions05:03
jacekowskizeltak: either using int 80 or sysenter/sysexit05:03
jacekowskibecause transition between ring 0 and ring 3 are quite expensive operation if done using int 8005:04
DocScrutinizerbut actually it didn't come even with FF3.6.8 and wasn't installable via the bold "update flash NOW!" button in FF either05:04
jacekowskiand it's little bit better with sysenter/sysexit but not all cpu's support it05:05
zeltaki see i think ill just leave compiling for right now sounds to complex at this stage of early maemo for me :) thx anyway guys05:05
jacekowskibecause interrupts invalidate all cache lines and pretty much wipes all branch predictions05:05
jacekowskiwhich is quite amazing how much shit can one interrupt cause05:06
DocScrutinizer(maemo) the funny thing is those .mp4 play as awful ugly quality on N900 microb as they are on desktop linux, but at least they play, while on desktop I had to update to flash10.1 to get playback05:06
DocScrutinizerwhich was quite a PITA05:07
jacekowskii'm not sure why, but flash 10 on android uses thumb and flash 9 on maemo uses ARM05:09
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SpeedEvilWow - recent ncurses is huge05:11
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SpeedEviloops - plug phone in before compiling05:16
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you ordered such a f-bus "cable" with acrylic clamp?05:24
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jacekowskinot yet05:25
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DocScrutinizerI'm really unsure about that resistor voodoo, but otherwise it looks rather decent05:26
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jacekowskii'm thinking about making similiar kind of cable/connector myself05:27
DocScrutinizerwouldn't ponder to compete on that price tag05:27
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DocScrutinizereven building the clamp is worth >20 bucks, even if built from wood instead of acrylic05:29
DocScrutinizernot to mention the pogopins05:29
SpeedEvilpogopins are fairly cheap05:29
ZogGdamn noone on nitdroid chanel05:29
SpeedEvilbut, yes05:29
DocScrutinizerwell on the thousand yeah05:29
ZogGis anyone here who tried it with multiboot?05:29
jacekowskiyou keep forgotting one thing05:29
ZogGcause i can't boot maemo there is only nitdroid in menu =))05:30
DocScrutinizeras we say here: "you can't build it DIY for that price tag"05:30
jacekowskii work in company where most of things i would need is just on shelf05:30
jacekowskiso i have it for free05:30
jacekowskiit's only how i want to build it is a question05:30
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jacekowskibecause i'm thinking about something closer to connector that fits into that place05:31
jacekowskiand phone can be moved and used when it's connected05:31
DocScrutinizer5 items/lot = GBP 6.65 plus shipping. Mhm05:33
jacekowskii would just need thick blank PCB05:33
DocScrutinizerthat's what? ~1.50 EUR per pin?05:34
jacekowskisomething like 2-3 layers of typical FR-4 stacked together05:34
jacekowskiand then just pads05:34
jacekowskiwith solder on them05:34
jacekowskisolder is soft enough05:34
DocScrutinizerwon't work05:35
jacekowskiso with bit of pressure it should connect on all pads05:35
DocScrutinizernope, won't05:35
SpeedEvilAnnoyingly,  when I was 13, I had around 200.05:35
SpeedEvilThey got misused though05:35
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you get away with non spring loaded single contacts to a max of 3 on one mount05:36
DocScrutinizerfor 4+ you need separate springs to level the distance diffs05:37
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jacekowskii could use plain lead solder05:37
jacekowskiand lead is really soft05:37
DocScrutinizerwon't work05:38
DocScrutinizerno elasticity05:38
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jacekowskihave you tried working on it05:39
DocScrutinizerand lead is far less soft than you seem to think05:39
jacekowskithere are some pills for that kind of pessimistic mood05:39
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I tied such botch maybe 500 times in my life, gave me a good frustration and a realistic view on why they use pogopins and not anything else05:40
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jacekowskii could go to nokia care centre05:40
jacekowskiand ask them to sell me the jig05:40
DocScrutinizerI did, they mustn't05:41
jacekowskibut you went to german centre05:41
jacekowskithey are all nazi there05:41
jacekowskibrits are much more helpful05:41
jacekowskiesspecialy if you use some papers with queen on them05:41
DocScrutinizermaybe. Try your luck, then report back05:42
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DocScrutinizermaybe they sell FT-94 to you, for just 198GBP05:42
DocScrutinizerregarding what hey ask for spare parts, I don't think tools are much cheaper05:43
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DocScrutinizerBL-5J was 50EUR in a regular shop selling Nokia05:45
jacekowskitools may be cheap05:45
jacekowskibecause they are supposed only to be sold to authorised shops and stuff05:46
DocScrutinizerhmm. When you find out, tell us05:46
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SpeedEvilJust the binary06:00
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: tell me when Flash supports Tonal…06:07
DocScrutinizer51look at the specs of the formats. It does since flash606:08
luke-jrwtf? srsly?06:08
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luke-jrflickr officially fails its advertisers…06:09
luke-jrI was actually interested in clicking a link, but the idiots reloaded the ad06:10
luke-jr(to a different ad)06:10
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luke-jrfail #2-- no transparency support06:14
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ham5when I alt+ number I go right to the phone dial pad... how can I do that with a shortcut on the desktop?07:34
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Izzehanyone know a way of grabbing the url (.pls or otherwise) of streaming media so I can circumvent it opening in default player?08:35
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RST38hhmm...Eldar continues leaking some amusing info09:23
RST38hLike always, it is not clear what part of it he has made up of course09:24
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fralswhat did he leak now?09:26
RST38hApparently, Nokia is placing its bets on S40 phones with touch screens09:31
RST38h+ the usual crap about corpses firmly believing that their Ovi services are popular09:33
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RST38hThe guy has been shitting all over Nokia lately, so I am not sure what to believe though09:35
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RST38hThey do appear to prepare for a big announcement in September09:39
RST38hWhether it is Harmattan or just another Symbian phone is not said09:39
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luke-jrRST38h: sounds like he made it all up09:44
luke-jrmake up enough crap and you're bound to get something spot on09:44
RST38hnot necessarily09:45
luke-jrwell, as long as your made-up stuff is based on informed guessing09:45
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solisticHello all!09:59
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StskeepsRST38h: only popular service is ovi maps, anywhere but n90010:00
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RST38hStskeeps: Exactly10:12
RST38hStskeeps: But the corpses either ain't aware of this or refuse to believe it10:12
RST38hStskeeps: So, their line is "we will sell a shitload of cheap, mediocre touch phones and make a fortune on Ovi services delivered through these phones"10:13
RST38hthat part of Eldar's claim sounds true enough, at least.10:13
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TermanaN900Is the ofono compiled for maemo suppose to be a bitch?11:03
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crashanddieluke-jr & RST38h: Eldar is a dickwad, an asswipe. The guy should've been sued to hell and back, it's amazing he's still allowed to cover them.11:09
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RST38hcrashanddie: calling someone a dickwad isn't exactly useful11:32
crashanddieneither is what eldar has been doing for the past few years11:33
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RST38hWell, it is useful for me, in terms of the entertainment value at least11:34
marginalManon n900 i'm trying to execute the microb browser from terminal11:34
marginalMan# browser11:34
marginalManerror: invalid string constant "osso-combobox-entry-arrow", expected valid string constant11:35
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marginalManam i trying to execute it wrong?11:35
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steinexmarginalMan: look in the .desktop file how it's started there11:37
marginalMansame way... -it just says browser11:37
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marginalMan /usr/bin/browser11:37
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marginalMangoogle points to a dbus relative aproach...11:40
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marginalManhmmm... strange, # browser seems to work11:41
jacekowskitry "browser --url="11:43
jacekowskiwithout anything as url11:43
marginalManwhat does not work though is tsocks browser11:43
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marginalMantsocks fennec works fine...11:43
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jacekowskibecause real browser process is called browserd11:45
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jacekowskiand it's running all the time waiting in background11:45
jacekowskiuntill it's called11:45
marginalMani see11:45
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marginalManany suggestions on how to get it to work with tsocks whn needed?11:46
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crashanddiemarginalMan: you may want to be a tad more specific11:47
jacekowskihe probably wants it to go trough TOR11:47
jacekowskibecause he want's to watch CP11:47
marginalManno... not tor11:47
marginalManworks fine through tor11:47
jacekowskiso why do you want it to go trough tsocks?11:48
marginalMantrying to get it to browse through an ssh conn11:48
crashanddiefor ssh?11:48
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marginalManyes... ssh -D <port> <conn> then tsocks <app> in another terminal11:49
jacekowskido you know that all you have to do it add socks_proxy=......11:49
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jacekowskiin script starting browserd11:49
TermanaN900jacekowski, CP isnt the only thing on Tor you know :\11:49
jacekowskii was hosting TOR exit node for a quite a while11:49
jacekowskiand it is the only thing11:50
marginalManwhy do i want it to go through tsocks... -im new to linux, -trying to make sense of it11:50
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crashanddiechild pornography11:50
Gadgetoid_iPadI can't believe that was the first thing I saw11:50
Gadgetoid_iPadWhy would children want pornography?11:51
jacekowskiGadgetoid_iPad: it'll only get worse11:51
crashanddieGadgetoid_iPad: they're not the audience, they're the subject.11:51
Gadgetoid_iPadjacekowski: Probably!11:51
Gadgetoid_iPadcrashanddie: You mean stickam?11:51
jacekowskibasicaly there are no legitimate uses of tor at the moment11:51
jacekowskiit's either cp, trolling, general abuse11:51
TermanaN900Unfortunately spending enough time on /b/ you get exposed to everything11:52
crashanddieGadgetoid_iPad: imagine between 6 and 12 year olds getting raped? THat's CP.11:52
jacekowskilot of traffic was people trying to circumwent limits on rapidshare and similiar sites11:52
Gadgetoid_iPadcrashanddie: That sounds like a typical night out in Norwich...11:52
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TermanaN900jacekowski, have you visited the hidden wiki? Last i saw there was all different things. Like IRC servers, general websites.11:53
crashanddienope, there it's brothers and sisters... "Your sister is your mother, your father is your brother, we all fuck one another, the Norwich Family" (on the tune of the Adam's family)11:53
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Gadgetoid_iPadAdd a bit of phone booth vandalising and vomiting on the sidewalk... National past-time11:53
jacekowskiTermanaN900: i've hosted exit node11:54
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TermanaN900jacekowski, i know, i can read :P11:54
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Gadgetoid_iPadHmm...iPad crashtastic!11:55
Gadgetoid_iPadAha, arrived at destination! Got a bloody wedding to attend... Ugh... Church ceremonies are tragic11:57
TermanaN900All this talk of CP has made the FBI interfer with Gadgetoid_iPad's connection!11:57
Gadgetoid_iPadGood luck to them! I am on the move11:57
TermanaN900Gadgetoid_iPad, wait, are you actually ON an ipad?11:57
jacekowskihe probably just ran another app11:58
Gadgetoid_iPadTermanaN900: Yup11:58
jacekowskiso he head to close irc11:58
Gadgetoid_iPadNo, it actually crashed!11:58
jacekowskibecause there is no multitasking on ipad11:58
TermanaN900jacekowski, lmao11:58
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Gadgetoid_iPadI sold my n900 and bought the Iphone 4 :D11:58
TermanaN900Gadgetoid_iPad, I dont even...11:59
jacekowskisir, i have to ask you to leave the internet, you are just too stupid11:59
Gadgetoid_iPadMuwahaha...hahaha mwagaha11:59
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hatake_kakashiand take your FAIL with you12:00
Gadgetoid_iPadI figured my pandora might turn up sometime this year, rendering my n900 obsolete12:00
Gadgetoid_iPadLooking like next year now, ugh12:00
Gadgetoid_iPadRiighht unloading the car12:01
TermanaN900Gadgetoid_iPad, do you have some sort of dorky Stephen Hawking type thimg that attaches to you and holds your ipad in front of you?12:03
TermanaN900Can you also control it by twitching your lip?12:03
marginalManok... back12:04
TermanaN900Too bad it has no front facing camera. Im sure we could do that with the n90012:04
hatake_kakashiprobably does.. as a typical iproblematic lover12:04
marginalMani dont know about this12:04
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marginalMancan u point me to a link or give me some info on how i could set this up jacekowski12:04
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hatake_kakashidon't worry he'll be holding his breath and be the first in queue for the next ipad2.0.. he can't get enough of his sickening dosage and ranting about it in here :)12:05
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Gadgetoid_iPadTermanaN900: No, I levitate it using the force12:09
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RST38husing Apple's patented marketing vapors, no doubt12:11
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Gadgetoid_iPadiPad my bra12:13
Gadgetoid_iPadStarcraft II time!12:13
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keriostarcraft on ipad would make me go and *buy* one right now12:17
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marginalManon it...trying it... socks_proxy= ... ... ... lotta pages bout nothing12:22
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jacekowskihmm, 1st result on my google12:23
marginalMandoes not tell me how it applies to browserd12:24
MohammadAGjacekowski, ever started on the flash lib?12:24
jacekowskiit's to different12:24
MohammadAGI wonder how the frash team got it working on the iPad12:25
jacekowskiandroid flash uses thumb while maemo flash uses ARM12:25
jacekowskibut android is closer to iOS in that matter12:25
jacekowskii could get it working same way12:25
jacekowskibut it would be probably faster to run emulated x86 version12:26
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MohammadAGand if you use a kernel with thumb enabled?12:26
* marginalMan tries about:config12:26
jacekowskiit's about switching between modes as well12:26
alteregoabout:config is the awesome.12:27
jacekowskibut transplanting pieces of thumb code into ARM code12:27
alteregoSetup an ssh socks 5 proxy with it :)12:27
MohammadAGMeeGo will use ARM right?12:28
alteregoIf only I could write some kind of easy to use extension to do it automatically.12:28
jacekowskiit's about amount of work and results i would get12:28
alteregoJust need to twiddle one field. Can you access mozilla config from the command line?12:28
MohammadAGprefs.js is where the configs are stored afaik12:29
MohammadAGthat's in ~/.mozilla12:29
BugBluejust edit prefs.js in the profile12:29
hatake_kakashiI don't think Meego will be using arm, the initial testing phase will be done on armel but it will probably feature intel embedded cpu12:29
MohammadAGor microb12:29
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alteregoI could use Qt's js parser for that I think :)12:30
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marginalManif both an http_proxy and a socks_proxy are specified... -how do i tell the browser to use the socks?12:31
alteregoThough would be nice to be able to do it at run time :/12:31
alteregomarginalMan: there's a value that selects between them.12:31
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kerioi want to nest proxies!12:31
marginalMani see that the tor app on the n900 has predefined ssl_proxy http_proxy settings12:31
marginalManthe value... network.proxy.type?12:31
alteregonetwork.proxy.type = 1 is socks12:31
marginalManok... lets see12:32
alteregodon't know about the rest, test in firefox.12:32
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marginalMantrying in the native n900 browser, -but based on ff, so should work...12:32
alteregoYeah, that's how I did it all12:33
jacekowskiMohammadAG: i was thinking about porting frash to maemo just as PoC but it's not going to be amazing12:33
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MohammadAGjacekowski, do it12:34
MohammadAGeverything starts with a PoC anyways12:35
alteregoI wonder if I can write a javascript-let to do the edit ..12:35
marginalManhmmm... claims tht its refusing connections12:35
marginalManbut ssh is up...12:36
MohammadAGssh confuses me sometimes12:36
marginalManalterego... -u sure that 1 is for socks?12:37
MohammadAGI can't ssh into my laptop, but openssh-server is always installed and 22 is open12:37
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MohammadAGport 22*12:37
alteregomarginalMan: I'll check hang on12:37
Stskeepshatake_kakashi: ARM is a first-class architecture in meego.12:38
hatake_kakashiStskeeps, interesting, so Meego will still play a part in n900's upgrades? aka Maemo6?12:38
alteregomarginalMan: yup, certain, I'll post my config hangon12:39
marginalMandefinitely sure my ssh is up and accepting, going the tsocks fennec route works fine...12:40
marginalManjust does not seem to work for the default browser12:41
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zashalterego: protip: toggle socks_remote_dns12:43
alteregoMy ssh: ssh -t -D 8080 user@host screen -D -RR12:43
alteregozash: I know :P12:43
alteregozash: but privacy isn't why I'm using it12:43
alteregoI've done it anyway.12:43
marginalManyup... got it set up the same12:44
alteregoAs sometime it might be :)12:44
marginalMani see u dont hav anything specified for http_proxy12:44
marginalMani do... -tht is the only difference12:44
Pforceanyone know how to see how many times a package has been downloaded from extras-devel repo?12:44
Pforcecant see it here at least12:45
alteregoOh, I've got an idea, a local http server that can work as the proxy auto config url.12:45
alteregoPforce: not from devel, no, or testing for that matter.12:45
marginalManthe way its refusing con i'm thinking that a setting of 1 is trying to get through on http...12:45
Pforcealterego: extras then?12:45
Pforcewhen i get my app a bit more complete i will put it to testing12:46
alteregoPforce: in extras it's on you packages download page on maemo.org12:46
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alteregoPforce: but that page only gets created when you app reaches extras12:46
marginalManalterego... -just blankd out the http_proxy and ssl_proxy addy... -now it works12:47
Pforceahaa alterego thanks12:47
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Khertan<Pforce> anyone know how to see how many times a package has been downloaded from extras-devel repo? <<< no one know12:47
Khertanbut create your own repository :12:48
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alteregomarginalMan: probably .type needs to be 3 or something like that, did you test the setup on you desktop with an identical setup?12:48
Pforceim just qurious how many have gotten my app... but where is Khertan nick familiar12:48
Pforceumm py2dep? :)12:48
Khertanpy2deb ... or pypackager12:49
Pforcepackaged all my python deps and the program itself with your thing :)12:49
Khertanor the guy which didn't like maemo fremantle extras repository and there qa testing rule12:49
Khertangreat ... so i'm not the only one to use it :)12:49
Pforcevery useful, as I didnt know anything about debian packaging before12:50
Khertanhum ... dropbox client ... i ve tried it yesterday :)12:50
Pforceheh, thats me yeh12:50
KhertanPforce, i didn't know anything before creating too :)12:50
Stskeepshatake_kakashi: maemo6 isn't 'real meego'12:50
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KhertanPforce, i just see that the suggest field in last version of pypackager isn't working as it should12:51
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PforceKhertan: btw question: have you seen this with py2deb: when i have used it and now open up terminal there is a py2deb "screenshot" on the loading phase12:51
Pforceits weird12:51
Pforcelike there was something left into some init draw buffer12:52
Pforceits a "shot" of one of the automatically opened new terminal windows12:52
Pforcecosmetic thing i dont mind :D12:52
PforceKhertan: i use py2deb presently, does pypackager now make things so they can be uploaded with the web interface?12:53
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Pforcei tried pypackager and the web uploading refused the changes file12:53
Khertanhow really ?12:53
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Pforcethen i read from wiki that i have to use py2deb to upload to extras-*12:54
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Khertanwiki isn't up to date12:54
Khertanand after fighting hour to recover my login / pass from maemo wiki12:54
Khertani decide to not update the wiki12:55
Khertan have you seen this with py2deb: when i have used it and now open up terminal there is a py2deb "screenshot" on the loading phas <<<12:55
Khertannope but i see something similar with an other things and xterm12:56
Khertanxterm doesn't load really fast12:56
Khertanin fact the first time you run it12:56
Khertanit take an screenshot12:56
Khertanjust after the init12:56
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Khertanand use this screenshot everytime you load it12:56
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Khertanso if the first time you run it , xterm is called with argument :)12:57
Khertanit s just didn't work as it should12:57
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Pforcei guess screeshot is better than window that seems it hanged12:58
Pforcei was suprised that even reboot did not reset that12:59
alteregoEven bettwer when you run the indication hint on thw window :P13:00
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PforceKhertan: how can i get stuff to show in the app managers details tab, is it possible with py2deb?13:00
Pforcei use the changelog and it works, but that text does not go there13:01
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Khertangood question ...13:02
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Khertani must go on right now ... but can you send me an email about ... i ll try to look why later today or tomorrow13:02
Pforceoh its not that important :)13:03
Khertankhertan @ khertan.net13:03
Pforceworks well like this!13:03
Khertanbye all :)13:03
Khertanto be honest i never use HAM ... i prefer using xterm and apt :)13:03
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Pforceyeah, would be nice when i push updates for people to see changelog directly when they update via app manager13:04
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Pforcenow they have to go to forums :)13:04
MohammadAGcool, qwerty12 found a way to disable the cam from opening with the shutter13:04
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Corsacbonus point for having a daemon not running13:08
* RST38h wonders if qwerty12 is going to return to irc13:08
* MohammadAG hopes so13:09
MohammadAGI kinda doubt it though13:09
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alteregoYeah, I miss qwerty13:15
alteregoThough I have no idea why he left ..13:15
crashanddieNo, he won't come back13:15
alteregoThey always come back.13:16
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Stskeepstoo busy with college and getting to know girls13:16
Stskeepsonce he's educated and married, he'll be back13:16
crashanddielmao, qwerty and girls :D13:16
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crashanddieStskeeps: have you mate q?13:16
crashanddieer, have you met qwerty?13:17
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Stskeepsno, havent had the pleausre13:18
alteregoAny news about the Dublin summit?13:18
jacekowskianybody from greece here?13:18
jacekowskiis it viable place to go on holiday now?13:19
crashanddiejacekowski: you're polish, any place on earth is a viable holiday for you.13:19
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* RST38h whispers: Albania.13:20
jacekowskibut i'm talking about recent events in greece13:21
MohammadAGalterego, when's that?13:21
RST38hjacekowski: Nothing to worry about, get a baseball bat with you13:21
jacekowskii'm not going to accept any info from somebody who doesn't live there13:21
alterego15-17th of November apparently, thought it was closer.13:22
jacekowskiand got his information from interwebs or tv13:22
RST38hYour query is likely to return an empty set then.13:22
alteregoMohammadAG: in Dublin13:22
MohammadAGalterego, when = time, where = place13:23
MohammadAGI asked when the summit was :P13:23
crashanddie< alterego> 15-17th of November apparently, thought it was closer.13:23
alteregoMohammadAG: I said, just didn't address you directly, 15th-17th Nov13:23
crashanddieMohammadAG: you idiot :P13:23
crashanddiealterego: why is it in Dublin?13:24
MohammadAGcrashanddie, I tend to ignore anything that's not in red :P13:24
crashanddiealterego: I wanted London :(13:24
MohammadAGI wanted Israel13:24
crashanddieMohammadAG: we want to live13:24
JaffaX-Fade/anyone else: is there a "get me some info on everyone" machine-readable variant of
alteregocrashanddie: there's the Nokia developer summit in London, I might head to that.13:24
MohammadAGcrashanddie, oh you'll live alright XD13:24
crashanddieMohammadAG: though, throwing n900s at tanks might be a new idea13:24
Jaffaalterego: Pricey13:24
alteregoJaffa: how much is it? If it's too much I wont go :)13:25
alteregoOr I might try and gatecrash, muahaha13:25
MohammadAGcrashanddie, I'd try that, lemme pm you my addy so you could send me your N90013:25
alteregoOr get Nokia to pay ..13:25
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crashanddiegatecrashing works nice13:25
crashanddiejust show up with a clipboard, walky talky, and look annoyed at anyone who stops you13:26
Jaffaalterego: There was 150eur *discount* until recently. So I think it's about 6/700EUR13:26
alteregoJaffa: wow, I probably wont pay for that then ... :D13:26
* alterego sends an email to nokia13:26
MohammadAGhow much is the summit?13:26
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* Jaffa got an email for a limited number of free places, but it went in the spam folder :(13:26
alteregoMohammadAG: free, except for flights and accomodation, the event is free though I believe.13:26
alteregoJaffa: :(13:27
alteregoJaffa: any chance of you getting them to send me one? ;)13:27
Jaffacrashanddie: MohammadAG: there's talk of a nominal charge to discourage ppl just turning up for a freebie, or registering and not turning up.13:27
crashanddiealterego: I assume the offer expired13:27
crashanddieJaffa: fair enough13:27
Jaffaalterego: By the time I checked it, offer was used up.13:27
alteregoI doubt there'd be many Maemo-ers there though13:27
MohammadAGJaffa, that's understandable13:27
alteregoJaffa: oh :(13:27
kerioi want freebies!13:27
crashanddieJaffa: how much? 50 quid?13:27
MohammadAGso the summit's turning non-free?13:28
alteregoI just want a reason to go some where :D13:28
lbtJaffa: slapcat13:28
crashanddieMohammadAG: frankly, with all the parties, drinks and food that is provided, any fee is cheap13:28
MohammadAGI just want crashanddie to meet me, and my axe13:28
alteregoAnyone have any experience with YUV decoding in a fragment shader of a GL program?13:28
Jaffacrashanddie: That was the upper bound of the amount suggested on meego-community, IIRC. Not sure there was a conclusion13:28
crashanddieJaffa: oh, this is happening on meego-community?13:29
alteregoI've got texture uploading and displaying on a GL polygon, but my image is kind of screwy.13:29
Jaffalbt: the slightly less poular Thundercat?13:29
crashanddieI unsubscribed of everything meego13:29
Jaffacrashanddie: A few mails a few weeks ago.13:29
MohammadAGno maemo events?13:29
Jaffacrashanddie: There is no Maemo event being paid for by Nokia this ar.13:29
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infobotJaffa meant: crashanddie: There is no Maemo event being paid for by Nokia this year.13:29
alteregoAnyhow, I need a shower, bbiab13:29
lbtkvm usertools blow13:30
crashanddieJaffa: figured as much, if it was being discussed on meego-c13:30
RST38hThere is no Maemo any more, either13:30
crashanddieJaffa: so who's funding it? Nokia and Intel?13:30
MohammadAGthat's kinda sad tbh13:30
MohammadAGI expected one more maemo event :(13:30
Jaffacrashanddie: Correct13:30
Jaffacrashanddie: AIUI13:31
crashanddiewell, I wouldn't have minded a "goodbye maemo" event13:31
RST38hWell you will get your shot in the shape of Meego13:31
crashanddienha, not what I mean13:31
crashanddieJaffa: you don't fancy setting up a london (or somewhere else in the UK, near an airport) event for the "old crew"?13:32
lbtmeh... it's like saying goodbye to marathon and hello snickers13:32
RST38hMaybe I am missing something important, but so far Nokia is the only company trying to do Meego on a non-Intel hardware13:32
Jaffacrashanddie: Was tempted13:32
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RST38hSo, the result will be Maemo rather than Meego ;)13:33
Jaffalbt: More like "goodbye fruit & nut, hello dairy milk" ;-)13:33
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lbthaving seen some of the characters I may be tempted to invert that ;)13:33
Pforcehas anyone run that meego with the simple ui in your n900?13:33
crashanddieJaffa: do you want me to make you an easily interpreted list for the maemo users?13:33
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Jaffalbt: true :)13:34
Jaffacrashanddie: ?13:34
crashanddieJaffa: the maemo user list, you want something machine readable13:34
Jaffacrashanddie: Oh, please. Saves me a job: something that's repeatable, parseable and contains nick, realname, avatar URL and associated websites13:35
Jaffacrashanddie: Then I can write a plugin for Herme13:35
PforceJaffa == creator of hermes?13:36
crashanddieJaffa: will do13:36
crashanddiegoing to play with the parrot for a bit13:36
JaffaPforce: correct13:36
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PforceJaffa: wonderful app, love it :)13:36
Pforcelinked in was a nice addition13:37
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JaffaPforce: thanks :)13:37
Pforceany plans to add some kind of nick to name list13:39
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Pforcei mean if my contacts have "dad" and i want it to searched from the web with the name "John Doe"13:39
Pforcei know there is nick field in the contacts for those things13:40
JaffaPforce: It uses the name and nicknames fields from the contacts.13:40
Pforceright, so if i define name as "Dad" and nickname as "John Doe" would that work? :)13:40
Pforcei mean if i set real name to first/last and nick to nickname, contacts still just shows me first/last13:41
JaffaPforce: Should do, and same other way round.13:41
Pforcesetting the nick thing in the settings didnt help much either13:41
PforceJaffa: nice13:41
Pforcehave to try that13:41
JaffaPforce: Yeah, contacts only shows fir+t/last namevariations13:42
Pforcei just dont get my sisters pics etc as they just have nick names in name field :P13:42
Pforcebut thats a good workaround to put real name to nickname :D kind of scwered up13:42
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MohammadAGwhen a shell doesn't spawn over ssh, what would the reason be?13:49
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MohammadAGah fuck it13:53
TermanaN900MohammadAG, you have to shoot it13:53
TermanaN900then it spawns13:53
MohammadAGTermanaN900, stop wasting my CPU cycles13:53
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rmrfchikMohammadAG: here?13:54
rmrfchikis it you who fixed hildon-desktop?13:55
rmrfchiki mean glitches13:55
MohammadAGno, I only backported the fix13:55
rmrfchikseems like don't work for me :(13:55
rmrfchikJust saw "interface rebulding"13:56
MohammadAGhmm, sec13:57
MohammadAGbug 17324013:57
povbotBug was not found.13:57
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MohammadAGalso see bug 1061313:58
povbotBug screen glitches on incoming call13:58
rmrfchikMohammadAG: yes, i saw bug and get .deb from it13:59
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MohammadAGsure you installed it?14:00
MohammadAGI'd reopen the bug, but my backport isn't an official fix14:00
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* marginalMan shakes his head14:04
rmrfchikhmm. I rebooted. seems like gone14:04
marginalManlooks like [1] is all there is and its order of precidence has http_proxy set above socks14:07
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DrIDKIs there a packaging team ?14:08
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DrIDKMohammadAG: I m searching guys who want to package my app14:10
marginalManso... either gonna clear out http/ssl proxy settings fo it to use socks, -or use tsocks with default browser14:11
marginalManusing n900s default browser with socks... -anybody got any ideas?14:12
crashanddieJaffa: XML ok, or CSV?14:12
alteregomarginalMan: look into generating your own .pac files and using auto configuration url14:13
alteregoI just use socks, so it works fine for me ..14:13
alteregoIf I wanted to do something more dynamic, I think generating a pac dynamically from a python http server running on the device would be quite neat.14:13
marginalManwill look into it14:14
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marginalManlooking to get browser/browserd to run through tsocks i think is the simplest aproach14:15
marginalMancant find anything on getting this done though14:15
MohammadAGDrIDK, which app?14:16
Jaffacrashanddie: either fine.14:17
DrIDKMohammadAG: vlc remote14:17
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DrIDKMohammadAG: I just want to upload on extra devel...14:17
DrIDKMohammadAG: after many test... I always get a FAILURE message... :(14:18
DrIDKMohammadAG: this application works pretty nice, that's why I want to share with you14:18
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alteregomarginalMan: well, the .pac files doesn't have to be from a http server, it can just be a file:/// uri on your filesystem.14:18
marginalManheh, -i'm real fresh at this... -still looking pac files up14:20
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rmrfchikhm, why usb0 is not automatically up?14:21
alteregomarginalMan: well, basically they're just javascript files.14:21
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alteregoThat return strings describing the proxy configuration per URL or network or whatever.14:22
ThoMei search for jre for maemo (1.2), n90014:22
alteregoPretty cool really.14:22
ThoMebut i cant find  this.14:22
ThoMecan anyone help me? please14:22
alteregoThoMe: have you searched the forums, someone was working on a build at some point.14:22
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alteregoOtherwise, download scratchbox and build it yourself? :)14:22
rmrfchikThoMe: Icedtea is packaged14:22
rmrfchikin extras-devel14:23
ThoMermrfchik: from sun?14:23
ThoMeNokia-N900:~# apt-cache search Icedtea14:23
ThoMeicedtea6 - The icedtea6 version of the OpenJDK(TM)14:23
alteregoThoMe: you mean Cisco, and it's based on the Cisco Java source tree yes.14:23
ThoMealterego: merci!14:24
ThoMermrfchik: thanx! :-)14:24
ThoMeand a next and last question:14:25
ThoMeis it posible to use ipsec with maemo?14:25
ThoMestrongswan or ...?14:25
ThoMeopenvpn yes, but ipsec?14:25
alteregoI thought openvpn did ipsec?14:26
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alteregoOh well14:27
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ShadowJKopenvpn only does openvpn14:28
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alteregoI bet that live wallpaper is a battery suck. .14:30
RST38hno doubt14:32
alteregoLooks neat though14:33
RST38huseless gimmick, I am afraid14:34
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RST38hthe most useful thing for n900 that I have found lately is the Grilo MAFW plugin14:34
RST38hFinally lets you browse the file system in the media player14:35
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rmrfchikapt-get install grilo-0.1-plugins>14:38
rmrfchikapt-get install grilo-0.1-plugins?14:38
RST38ha moment14:39
RST38hrmrfchik: yes, that should work14:40
rmrfchikhmm... can't find folders in Media Player14:43
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Corsacrmrfchik: clic in menu, then “plugins”14:48
infobotCorsac meant: rmrfchik: tap in menu, then “plugins”14:48
RST38hrmrfchik: at the media player's top screen, click the menu14:48
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rmrfchiknothing happens. no menu. just "Mediaplayer"14:49
RST38hI did not need rebooting14:49
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Corsacmaybe at least restart the media player if it was running when you installed14:56
Corsacand maybe installing through apt-get wasn't a good idea14:56
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jacekowskii just came up with brilliant idea15:39
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jacekowskii quite often use camera to make photo of address or something on pc as it's simpler than copy&paste to outlook and send e-mail or type it manually15:40
jacekowskiand opera on n900 doesn't support notes15:40
jacekowskiso i can't select and copy to note15:40
jacekowskiso i was thinking about automaticaly ocring that kind of stuff15:41
Stskeepsevernote did it already15:41
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DocScrutinizerbarisione: is there anywhere a terse summary about how your contact-specific-ringtones is working? I got the problem my vibrator doesn't work anymore (for call signalling) seemingly related to installing your app. Vib is enabled both in silent and in default profile15:43
crashanddieJaffa: sample output:
crashanddieshit, wrong link15:44
crashanddieJaffa: sample output:
DocScrutinizerbarisione: the 5s delay until any ringtone is played back on inbound call, would be much less of a problem if vibra would start immediately at least15:45
crashanddieJaffa: call with script_name.php?page=5 to get the 5th page of the users15:45
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: which is a specific behaviour provided by blackberries and most other phones... "Vibrate then ring"15:46
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: ack15:46
DocScrutinizermakes sense15:46
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DocScrutinizeralso a function like err (english missing) "level up volume slowly" for ringtones would be really cool15:47
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crashanddieescalating ringtone?15:47
crashanddieor escalating volume15:47
DocScrutinizersure you could have a *.wav with volume matching your needs, but then it seems that ringtone always is a loop of 60s max length15:48
DocScrutinizerand leveling down volume of ringtone back to zero after 60s seems rather daft15:49
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DocScrutinizerso, when we already got a ringtone-per-cntact deamon handling this ringtone playback on behlaf of the braindamaged rtcom-call-ui (or whatever), then why not have a scheme like "playback ~/.local/sounds/ringtone.wav; after first complete playback look for ringtone-loop.wav and loop-playback that; if no such fule, then loop original ringtone.wav"15:51
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: so, when we already got a ringtone-per-cntact deamon handling this ringtone playback on behlaf of the braindamaged rtcom-call-ui (or whatever), then why not have a scheme like "playback ~/.local/sounds/ringtone.wav; after first complete playback look for ...15:52
marginalMantsocks apt-get ... seems to work15:52
marginalManbut tsocks hildon-application-manager does not15:52
marginalManit brings up the interface... -but does not download/update through socks15:52
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marginalManany pointers?15:52
DocScrutinizerinfobot: you are stupid15:53
infobotDocScrutinizer: I think you lost me on that one15:53
DocScrutinizerI bet15:53
crashanddieexhibit a?15:53
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DocScrutinizermarginalMan: I thought HAM is using apt as a sub-process, so just kinda providing a GUI for it15:55
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: no, it uses dpkg15:56
DocScrutinizeroh, k15:56
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DocScrutinizerso anyway that's probably the answer15:56
* marginalMan figured since its a sub-process it would still go through socks15:57
crashanddiebut regardless, it's probably using wget and whatnot, so as it is a subprocess of some sort, I'm not surprised tsocks doesn't catch it15:57
DocScrutinizerany other mechanism decoupling it as a child process?15:58
marginalManhmmm... -is there no way of saying something like... tsocks *everything*?15:58
marginalManor am i hoping for too much?15:58
DocScrutinizerno idea bout tsocks15:58
crashanddiewell, proxies have been notoriously badly supported on the n90015:58
marginalManworks ok with apt get, -etc/apt/apt.conf even whn it comes to http_proxy15:59
marginalManbut doesnt help much for the gui offering...15:59
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: wget I'd be surprised as wget seems not to come with default install16:00
crashanddiewhatever then :P16:00
DocScrutinizerwell maybe some libwget16:00
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marginalManset a proxy relative to wireless connection... -and it works16:10
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DocScrutinizererr, relative to?16:10
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marginalManwireless link... so access point or router16:10
marginalManadvanced settings in the conn16:11
marginalMandunno... -i did it from the settings menu16:11
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DocScrutinizerwell, there is pc connectivity manager pkg which seems to simplify quite some of those setups, though I haven't used it much to test and so can't really say if it is useful and works16:15
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lcukalterego, ive seen the yuv fragment shader stuff16:16
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DocScrutinizerany linux coders around? what's current policy on linux/maemo regarding filelocking? is there any default filelocking, in a sense of "you can't write to a file that's opened for read by another process"?16:34
DocScrutinizerI suppose there isn't16:34
lcukDocScrutinizer, theres some things that I have needed locking for but everytime I look into file systems discover there are so many variations and gotchas and stuff16:35
lcukand the main thing I know that uses a lock is the ham/apt stuff16:35
DocScrutinizeryeah, but by default (means kernel fs immanent) there's nothing still?16:35
* lcuk used to use file locks for numerous networky things in windows of all places16:35
lcuki dunno16:36
MohammadAG51does anyone know of a site that sells DRM free songs?16:36
fralswoho half a million downloads from extras exceeded \o/16:36
lcuktoggles_w, i thought it was file system specific16:36
lcukfrals, \o/16:36
lcukMohammadAG51, amazon?16:36
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toggles_wstandard call as far as i know16:36
MohammadAG51lcuk, US only16:36
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DocScrutinizerflock() and it has to be called/handled explicitly by any app16:36
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toggles_wMohammadAG51: ubuntuone back end?16:37
lcukDocScrutinizer, does it happily actually lock?16:37
* lcuk will look into it if it does16:37
MohammadAG51ubuntu one sells songs?16:37
toggles_wMohammadAG51: yes16:37
DocScrutinizerso my basic question is: can I write to a file that e.g is named foo and used like "bar <foo"16:37
ZuccaWhere does Maemo 5 store it's internet connectio configurations? There's some strange behaviour and I want to look in to the config files.16:37
toggles_wopen rhythmbox16:37
MohammadAG51i thought the whole project failed16:38
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: I looked into the relevant manpages a few days ago, and got a headache16:39
ZuccaMohammadAG51: Free songs at least, so not for sale actually. ;)16:39
lcukDocScrutinizer, i have been reading up on making an overlay fs (to handle dynamic optification with a dual speed filesystem underneath)16:39
lcukand my head hurts too16:40
toggles_wMohammadAG51: nope, uses as a back end, you might be able to buy direct from there16:40
DocScrutinizerthere is some global locking mechanism, but it doesn't work on linux, and tehre are several other explicit locking mechanisms that seem incompatible and cooperative-only16:40
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I'm pondering to rewrite an audiofile on the fly, while other process is doing playback from that file (bet you can guess what I'm after ;-)16:42
fralsZucca: gconf dir at /system/osso/connectivity/IAP16:42
lcukDocScrutinizer, cant guess actually, but pipes are usually used for that arent they?16:43
DocScrutinizerbut pipes aren't failsafe. If writing process dies, the reading process hangs forever16:44
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MohammadAG51Zucca, i already have the song, but supporting a band isn't a bad thing16:44
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: while a ringtone playback from a *.wav real file would always playback *something*, and I want to change content of that file, while actual playback is in progress (of course will fail epically if playback process is using large buffer or sth)16:46
DocScrutinizerlcuk: using a named pipe for that was my suggestion to barisione from some days ago, here in this chan :-)16:48
Zuccafrals: Thanks. :)16:48
lcukDocScrutinizer, cool16:48
* lcuk hasnt actually used named pipes for many years16:48
lcukDocScrutinizer, sometimes hacks are needed16:49
DocScrutinizerlcuk: anyway why mess around with cumbersome setup of gstreamer pipe for custom playback of ringtone, while feeding dialer with a 0 byte nokiatune.aac.wav, if you could feed the dialer playback engine with mangled data via a named pipe or even by rewriting the nokiatune.aac.wav on the fly16:51
alteregolcuk: thank you very much :)16:51
lcukDocScrutinizer, reasonable enough16:52
alteregoHrm, that doesn't look like GLSL16:52
alteregoOpenGL Shader Language16:53
alteregoLooks a lot more like C16:53
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alteregoI'm trying to write an fcam app, but using OpenGL for display rather than that crappy OMAP framebuffer overlay :)16:54
alteregoIt's almost working, it just looks a bit off.16:54
lcukthe omap framebuffer isnt that bad you know16:56
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ZuccaOh btw. If I use power kernel is there a CPU temp watcher that lowers the CPU frequency if it goes too hot?16:57
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GAN900Hot isn't the issue16:58
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ZuccaGAN900: So I guess that the stability is then?16:59
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ZuccaI've heard that 900MHz is still stable.17:00
alteregolcuk: Yeah, but an OpenGL based viewfinder would be so much cooler ;)17:00
lcukit would be warmer :) using extra battery for what purpose?17:01
alteregoI don't think that will be too much of an issue17:02
alteregoBut the purpose would be eye candy :P17:02
alteregoOnce I get it working though, I'll do some power usage tests ;)17:03
GAN900Zucca, electromigration.17:03
GAN900Zucca, stability doesn't have anything to do with whether you're killing it or not.17:03
lcukalterego, reasonable enough, what eyecandy are you thinking though17:03
crashanddie~electromigration is when police officers ask you to move out of the area using their taser.17:03
infobot...but electromigration is already something else...17:03
ZuccaGAN900: Electromigraion? New word for me. Care to explain?17:04
infobotrumour has it, electromigration is
alteregolcuk: well, I'm just mixing media at the moment, OpenGL+Qt see what I can come up with17:04
* lcuk nods17:04
* Zucca clicks the wiki link...17:04
crashanddielcuk: what are you working on these days?17:05
crashanddielcuk: still working on liqbase? If so, what are the next milestones you have planned?17:05
lcukgetting rid of my hangover17:05
alteregolcuk: I was contemplating doing a Qt version of your reversed AR ;)17:05
alteregoI've got draggable views now, so I can navigate around an apps views with the swipe of a finger.17:05
alterego(both horizontal & vertical) :)17:05
lcukcool alterego it best be able to do what I hope with it :p17:05
alteregolcuk: What's that?17:05
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lcukalterego, have you seen that it works with a tiled set of machines17:06
alteregoOh, yeah, that's neat.17:06
ZuccaAh. Now I see.17:06
alteregoI was contemplating trying to implement it without the need for lights ..17:06
lcukcrashanddie, yes17:07
alteregoJust using scenery.17:07
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ZuccaGAN900: Is there any reports of dead cpu/chips because the use of power kernel?17:07
* lcuk throws zippo across the room17:08
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alteregoThough, auto calibration might be hard17:08
lcukalterego, i have location scale and orientation17:08
lcukwhite light was the only thing making me meh atm17:09
alteregoAnd IR LEDs weren't good enough?17:09
lcuki didnt have any IR leds at the time17:10
lcukcrashanddie, there will be stuff forthcoming17:10
alteregoAh, looking at the glrenderer source you gave me, it looks like they use 3 different textures for Y, U & V17:10
alteregoMine is as one :/17:10
lcukyou fudged yuv into an RGB texture and then re-fudging it?17:11
lcukwhich wouldnt be the worst thing17:11
alteregoI fudged it into a LUMINANCE_ALPHA texture17:11
alteregoI'm not sure how effecient demultiplexing the YUV planes from the byte buffer I get into three textures will be.17:12
alteregoI kind of rather not :P17:13
lcuki am used to seeing yuv as planar17:13
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alteregoIt would appear that is the "standard" but FCam doesn't seem to do that.17:13
alteregoIt uses YUV42217:14
alteregoAs a single byte array17:14
DrIDK2MohammadAG: I just installed vlc-remote from extra. It works nice! Thanks17:14
lcukalterego, yeah coming from the camera it does17:14
* lcuk forgot17:14
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alteregoI've got a feeling it's because the values alternate between Cr and Cb17:19
alteregoThat's the first byte or something.17:20
alteregoIt might not be possible for me to do the pixel manipulation like that.17:20
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lcukalterego, i demux the values into planar coming from the camera before i do anything17:24
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lcukthe algorithm is faily quick, reading a ULONG of data and pushing to the 3 planes as required17:25
alteregoWhat's the processor usage like? :)17:25
lcukit could be optimised further by buffering up the YUV planar writes until also aligned on ULONG  boundaries17:25
lcukits light for the low res data (320*240)17:25
alteregoI'm doing 640x48017:26
lcukyeah i didnt need more17:26
alteregoI'll give it a go and see if I'm happy with the results ;)17:26
lcukand 320*240 is what also still works on the 81017:26
lcukhence not wanting/needing to increase it17:26
alteregoI thought the N810 was 640x480 aswell ..17:26
lcukit can17:27
lcukbut handling 4x data turns it to mush17:27
lcuki needed responsiveness, the invar stuff *should* technically work there17:27
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* lcuk still to compile again for 8x017:27
alteregoAh, okay17:27
alteregoFair enough17:27
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cropeN900 and got incoming call during app install. now installer is freeze and says "Unable to cancel. Please wait." I have been waiting abot 30mins now...17:28
lcukthe n97 has a cpu similar to the 8x0 i believe17:28
lcukcrope, not good17:28
jacekowskii've got real fs-9417:28
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jacekowskias i said papers with queen work quite well17:29
cropelcuk: how long should I wait?17:29
MohammadAGDrIDK2, you're welcome :)17:29
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lcukcrope, what were you installing17:31
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i've got real jig17:31
SpeedEvilNeat - how.17:31
jacekowskifrom a shop17:31
SpeedEvilhow much?17:32
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SpeedEvilthat's not completely unreasonable.17:32
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MohammadAG70 what?17:32
SpeedEvilEnglish pounds.17:32
jacekowskibritish pounds17:33
jacekowskias i said papers with queen picture on them work quite well17:33
* lcuk was paying so much for drinks last night that i almost had to offer first born son to buy a pint17:33
SpeedEvillcuk: He's drinking already?17:33
lcukSpeedEvil, hes been drinking all his life unsurprisingly17:34
cropelcuk: jSpeed from extras devel :o looks like I should force it stop. hopefully package manager db does not corrupt..17:34
* alterego misses the multiple angle stand from the N810 in the N90017:34
luke-jrmultiple angle?17:34
alteregoThe N900, at it's current position and where I'm situated is too flat17:34
lcukcrope, eep17:34
jacekowskianyways time to get back home17:35
alteregoYeah, the N810, you could use the stand to flick between a couple of different angles17:35
lcukcould you check on if theres a match for that issue17:35
lcukand if not, file one17:35
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alteregoHow much are N810's now?17:36
cropelcuk: will do17:36
lcukcrope, lemme know the number, I might want to look into that more17:37
* lcuk hmmms and wanders off to check some things17:37
MohammadAGalterego, two N900s and a coke17:38
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crashanddiealterego: about $20017:40
cropelcuk: ok. maybe Monday I have time17:41
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lcukcrope, did your HAM work after you restarted it?17:44
luke-jrcrashanddie: they were $200 back in early 200917:44
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luke-jrthat said, eBay has one at $180 closing in 4 hrs17:45
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SpeedEvilLook at completed sales for prices17:47
SpeedEvilyou can never tell if that'll hit $40017:47
alteregoWeird, the N900 is heavier than the n810 :)17:47
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RST38hmore stuff inside17:52
* GAN900 wonders if MicroB will ever support HTML5.17:53
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SpeedEvilAnd flash 1017:55
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alteregoVery unlikely17:55
RST38hYou need an explanation or will the short answer do? =)17:55
alteregoMeeGo isn't even using MicroB17:55
RST38hthank you, Captain17:55
alteregoI wonder if Harmatten/MeeGo will be using MicroB though17:56
alteregoDo you know that for a fact?17:57
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lcukdidnt the adobe guy show flash 10 on n90018:00
RST38halterego: MeeGo uses Fennec as its default browser.18:01
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Stskeepslcuk: worst pr ever if it was never going to be provided..18:03
lcukthen follow up18:04
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lcukadboe themselves have got it18:04
lcukso push directly18:04
alteregoRST38h: sure, but I was talking about Harmattan18:04
alteregoI agree about pushing Adobe,18:05
alteregoWe should write a petition or something :)18:05
alterego(I actually don't really give a crap about Flash 10 support personally though)18:06
Stskeepsmight be more suitable to ask Movial if they intend to provide one.18:06
alteregoBut I'd be happy to help push for the cause.18:06
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GAN900lcuk, it's Nokia's job to ship it.18:08
GAN900lcuk, not Adobe with the way Flash on mobile is handled.18:08
lcukGAN900, its Adobes job to make it available first18:08
GAN900lcuk, so don't deflect.18:08
alteregoYeah, what does Movial have to do with anything?18:08
GAN900Yeah, except Nokia is actually the hold-up here.18:08
lcukcant do fuck all unless theres a package18:08
GAN900So stop drinking Kool-Aid.18:08
alteregoThere's nothing cool about aids ...18:09
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RST38hStskeeps: I do not think they care about PR in our case18:14
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RST38hStskeeps: this whole maemo thing is somekind of a research project, or so the corpses would like anyone to believe18:14
RST38hStskeeps: Symbian is their main corporate [wooden] horse18:15
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RST38hMeanwhile, would some kind soul help me resolving a problem with the SB2 generating packages with too-high dependency versions?18:18
GAN900lcuk, in summary Intel and Nokia shouldn't have to support things they don't make, but Adobe should?18:18
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CorsacRST38h: thanks for reminding me that mic sucks badly, but it might suck less than scratchbox18:19
MohammadAGis the ubuntuone music store down?18:19
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lcukGAN900, in summary:  reverse engineering is illegal. since flash is closed source, without adobe blessing what the heck can be done?18:20
RST38hMohammad: You are probably the only guy here using it18:20
RST38hProbably the only guy in Jerusalem too =)18:20
MohammadAGRST38h, in Jordan atm :P18:20
RST38hStatement stands =)18:21
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DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: which jig?18:21
knightstalkerHello,Any Apps I can Receive Fax with?18:21
MohammadAGRST38h, well, amazon doesn't work outside the US so...18:21
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: fs9418:21
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: first one18:21
DocScrutinizer51how much?18:22
GAN900lcuk, um, Adobe has given its blessing.18:22
GAN900lcuk, the ball is in Nokia's court.18:22
jacekowskilcuk: it's not illegal18:22
lcukGAN900, where is the deb?18:22
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jacekowskilcuk: law clearly states that it' legal18:22
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: 70 quid18:23
GAN900lcuk, if you don't know what the details of the issue are, don't go around claiming innocence.18:23
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lcukjacekowski, your interpretation of many things is dodgy at the best of times.18:23
DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: hmmm, I'd prefer the universal for 6018:23
jacekowskilcuk: re itself is legal18:23
lcukGAN900, what issue is there to understand?18:23
jacekowskilcuk: but writing software based on it isn't18:24
lcuka closed source product exists on the n900, however the company will not release it18:24
jacekowskilcuk: that's how all vuln research work18:24
KnightStalkerHmm,As I see,There are no Fax receivers for N900,how can I get N900 work with my computer so that i receive the fax in my computer?18:24
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jacekowskiyou can't18:26
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KnightStalkerThank You :p18:27
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KnightStalkerits pretty bad for such OS though >_>18:27
lcukafaik, isnt it a limitation of gsm lossy compression etc and not being able to send the fax data over it?18:28
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KnightStalkerOh no,operators here provide it18:28
KnightStalkerand I am sure our operators are one of the bad onea18:29
* w00t_ grumbles18:29
MohammadAGwas expecting that18:29
Stskeepsw00t_: butchering time?18:29
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w00t_Stskeeps: nah, i've just eaten, so i'm in a good mood18:29
MohammadAGw00t_, why does w00t highlight you :P18:29
KnightStalkerw00t_,however you are not w00t :P18:29
w00t_KnightStalker: actually, I am18:29
lcukKnightStalker, so try porting the linux fax software and seeing if it can be made to work18:29
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w00t_there's two of me here18:30
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jacekowskilcuk: you can fax over gsm18:30
KnightStalkerlcuk,so,how to port the linux fax software? XD I am on Ubuntu18:30
jacekowskilcuk: it skips codec18:30
jacekowskibut cellmo apparentlyhas no support for it18:30
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KnightStalkerour silly operators provide it :O I cant beleive anything worse then ours XD18:31
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* lcuk goes doing more productive stuff18:31
GAN900lcuk, Adobe licenses the dev kit to provide support to Nokia18:31
GAN900Nokia ships the support for their platforms.18:31
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GAN900The reason support doesn't exist for Maemo is because Nokia is TOO CHEAP to provide it. :)18:32
luke-jrI thought it was because it wasn't built into the price of the product18:32
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luke-jrdoes N900 not support "analog mode"?18:33
GAN900The same reason the N900 is getting dropped like a stone by Nokia with everything else.18:34
jacekowskiwell, skilled programmer with access to sources can do it in a week or two18:34
technomikeNokia is dropping N900 support?18:35
GAN900Nokia seems to hate people who give them money18:35
luke-jrtechnomike: of course?18:35
GAN900technomike, depends on your definition of support.18:35
jacekowskiwhat about we go to adobe18:35
jacekowskigive them 5k18:35
luke-jrGAN900: nah, everything loses support *eventually* :p18:35
MohammadAGwell, we wouldn't do that18:35
jacekowskiand get new flash18:35
luke-jrjacekowski: you assume $5k is enough18:36
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jacekowskiit is18:36
GAN900Nokia and their supporters define it as "providing minor bug fixes every 3-6 months or so".18:36
luke-jrNokia probably gives them $x *per device*18:36
technomikeIs this an official announcement from Nokia (the support drop)18:36
jacekowskiit's week or two of work for them18:36
luke-jrjacekowski: you forget the profit margin18:36
MohammadAGjacekowski, get a signed letter from Adobe that your offer is acceptable, then discuss the idea :P18:36
jacekowskienough to cover costs18:36
luke-jrjacekowski: if Adobe does it for Nokia, they'll have to do it for everyone18:37
KnightStalkerMohammadAG,Just checking for last time,There are NO ways to use my N900 to receive fax from itself or to connect it to a computer and use the computer to receive fax over gsm?18:37
lcukhow does flash on desktop linux work?18:37
luke-jrKnightStalker: I can't imagine Fax over GSM is possible18:37
RST38hActually, it does not have to happen this way18:37
MohammadAGothers know better about cellmo18:37
jacekowskiluke-jr: it is18:37
KnightStalkerluke-jr,we just discussed >_>18:37
lcuktechnomike, no, its just gan ranting18:38
luke-jrjacekowski: how?18:38
technomikeluke-jr - Fax over GSM is suppported18:38
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jacekowskiluke-jr: but not with n90018:38
RST38hIf your development process is set up correctly, it should not cost too much to provide updates to existing hardware owners18:38
luke-jrjacekowski: how?18:38
KnightStalkerokay then,Thanks18:38
RST38hAt least, BETA updates (i.e. less rigorous testing)18:38
KnightStalkerluke-jr,consider contacting your mobile operator and ask them if they provide it18:38
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jacekowskiluke-jr: same as early data18:38
luke-jrKnightStalker: MMS is far more popular than fax now, and N900 doesn't even support that18:38
jacekowskiin times before gprs18:39
luke-jrKnight|Dinner: there are no 3G services here18:39
Knight|Dinnerluke-jr,still no problems18:39
luke-jrjacekowski: before GPRS, there was no GSM18:39
* lcuk goes to b&q for dehumidifier18:39
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Knight|DinnerOur operators are 2G and 2.5G and they provide fax over gsm18:39
jacekowskimaybe in usa18:39
Knight|Dinnerand their MMS suck18:39
GAN900technomike, Nokia never announces anything like that.18:40
GAN900technomike, in fact, they would very vehemently argue that they are.18:40
jacekowskiluke-jr: shit gets digitized using modem connected at carrier exchange18:40
GAN900Reality and Nokia's PR department frequently don't mesh.18:41
jacekowskiluke-jr: and then that is pushed to phone18:41
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jacekowskiand you apparently need separate line to differentiate between normal voice and fax18:41
crashanddielmao at Meego-community users going paranoid about nigerian users asking for help18:42
MohammadAGcrashanddie, lol where?18:43
jacekowskishoot him before he steals your n90018:43
crashanddieMohammadAG: erhm... meego-community?18:43
MohammadAGmail lists?18:43
crashanddieMohammadAG: just some guy asking for help to get his meego laptop to recognise his USB modem, and the second or third reply is "If your country in Nigeria, and given the number of scams that eminate18:44
crashanddietherefrom then perhaps this would not be a good thing after all?"18:44
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jacekowskimy laptop and phone got stolen in nigeria18:44
Stskeepscrashanddie: wtf :P18:44
jacekowskiand i've been there for only little bit over a week18:44
luke-jroh crap18:44
luke-jrjacekowski: that was you?18:44
RST38hmeego has a community?18:45
jacekowskisince then i shoot niggers at sight18:45
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luke-jrso is a prison?18:45
jacekowskiand our transport from airport was nice18:45
jacekowskibuletproof car18:45
jacekowskidriver with ak4718:46
luke-jrok, you really need to clarify which parts are sarcastic now18:46
DrIDK2Is there a way to check extra-devel download statistic ?18:46
h4xordoodi want fighter jet ;P18:46
jacekowskii'm not so sure about bulletproof car18:47
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luke-jr[10:45:17] <jacekowski> since then i shoot niggers at sight18:47
jacekowskibut it had run flat tires18:47
h4xordoodha :D ehy do18:47
jacekowskiluke-jr: well, i just try to avoid them18:48
jacekowskii have to go18:48
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DrIDK2frals:  doens't work18:49
fralsprobably because thats not the package name or what it says in the message18:50
fralshmm, it worked for fmms while it was still in devel anyway :P18:50
jacekowskiand phone that got stolen was company phone18:51
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jacekowskimy own personal phone was safe because i left it in a hotel because there was no signal anyways18:51
jacekowskibut i had my company phone with my laptop18:52
jacekowskiwell company laptop18:52
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lcukno ops on #maemo any more that racist remarks can just be ignored by most?18:53
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jacekowskiit's not racist is fact that things got stolen18:54
jacekowskii have to go now18:54
lcukyour remark about shooting things on sight 9 minutes ago was out of order18:55
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crashanddieJaffa: did you get the links?18:58
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*** jacekowski was kicked by crashanddie (2 hour ban. Remind me if I forget)18:59
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* RST38h sighs19:00
RST38hCan we please avoid using political correctness as grounds for banning?19:00
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crashanddieI don't mind not using political correctness, but racism I won't tolerate19:01
crashanddieplus, 2 hours is nothing19:01
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RST38hyes, he is stupid19:02
RST38hbut being stupid is his right, I am afraid19:02
crashanddienot if it insults other people, which it clearly did19:03
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crashanddienow can we drop the topic and move on?19:03
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Milhousei'm with crashanddie and lcuk, RST38h - he was out of order. temp ban seems appropriate as a first "warning"19:05
crashanddieI've warned him plenty of times before19:05
Milhouseah ok... this the first kick?19:05
Milhouseok, well i guess step it up if it continues assuming he returns19:06
crashanddiethis is actually the first time I've kb'd a regular.19:06
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crashanddieGAN900: are you torturing a cat by holding it in a workbench press of some sort, and then forcefeeding it?19:10
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RST38hWhat package should I install to keep dependencies versions down?19:12
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GAN900crashanddie, am I?19:56
crashanddieGAN900: that's what your latest flickr pic seems to show19:59
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GAN900crashanddie, ah, yeah, that one was funny.20:03
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mooseranybody know how to use Mobile Hotspot? I try to conect ad-hoc with laptop and do not get any dhcpoffer, and iwconfig wlan0 shows no AP associated20:48
Corsactheir won't be any dhcp20:52
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technomikemooser - You have to use a static ip obviously :-P simple mistake though.20:53
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mooserty technomike and mooser.  my other phone connects over n900 via mobilehotspot without entering IP20:58
mooseri think choosing adhoc is a mistake20:58
mooserbut i find no client instructions20:59
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RST38bisThe University of Central Florida has developed a full-body motion-control video game that promotes abstinence.21:13
RST38bis(for $434k)21:14
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ShadowJKI thought abstinence was an accidental side-effect of all good games21:22
toggles_whappy ending?21:22
kerioShadowJK: lol21:22
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DocScrutinizer/kick toggles_w21:24
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DocScrutinizertoggles_w: btw I tought that nonsense was (C) + (tm) HtheB21:26
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RST38bisIn Java 1.6.0_21, the company field was changed from 'Sun Microsystems, Inc' to 'Oracle.' Apparently not the best idea, because some applications depend on that field to identify the virtual machine. All Eclipse versions since 3.3 (released 2007) until and including the recent Helios release (2010) have been reported to crash21:28
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* RST38bis is sorry for pasting this but he cannot stop giggling21:29
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korhojoaRST38bis: devs are dumb21:31
korhojoaRST38bis: it's the same thing with opera's browser id flag and old dos mouse drivers21:32
korhojoaopera's browser starts getting detected as version 1 and dos mouse drivers stop working since they don't contain the string "Microsoft Corp." at the correct point.21:33
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RST38bisOne of their leaders has predicted that the regime they're working to create will initially "seem like totalitarianism"... They claim to be able to raise the dead and cause miracles, such as the multiplication of Thanksgiving turkey dinners.21:47
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luke-jrRST38bis: ?21:52
RST38bisluke: Some new evangelical weirdos coming to political power in certain US states21:53
RST38bisfucking jesus-bitten warlocks, indeed...21:54
luke-jrnow that's not fair to assocate Jesus with anti-Christs21:54
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prozzerglike the rest of the us then? :P religious people everywhere21:55
luke-jrprozzerg: people using "religious" as an excuse, more like21:56
RST38bisany sect can claim "jesus loves them", does not make them christians21:56
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microlithso they're not true scotsmen I take it21:57
luke-jrJesus loves the atheists and child-eating Aztecs too21:57
luke-jrmicrolith: a Scotsman is defined as someone of Scottish origin21:57
luke-jra Christian is defined as someone who follows Christ21:57
microlithI'm talking about the logical fallacy21:57
luke-jrI know. it doesn't apply21:57
microlithsure it does21:57
luke-jrsaying "a native American living in Africa is not really a Scotsman" is not a logical fallacy21:58
luke-jrit's just applying the definition21:58
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microlithmore like RST38bis is claiming that some people are "not christian"21:58
luke-jrlots of people are not Christian21:59
luke-jrChristians are a minority21:59
microlithno, my point is him picking nits about followers of christ21:59
luke-jrmicrolith: I don't see any nitpicking so far.21:59
microlithso you're saying that just because someone claims they are christian doesn't make them christian?22:00
luke-jrsaying "Jesus loves us!" doesn't make one a follower of Christ (a Christian)22:00
microlithwho decides that?22:00
luke-jrmicrolith: the Church22:00
luke-jrinevitably, only God knows the heart22:00
luke-jrmicrolith: the Church guided by God22:00
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microlithand you can't possibly know that22:00
luke-jrthere is only one He founded, after all22:00
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microlith"He" did not, men did22:00
luke-jrGod did.22:00
luke-jrall religions founded by men are evil22:00
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microlithand you know the one true path?22:01
luke-jrand inherently non-Christian, since one who isn't part of Christ's Church doesn't follow Him obviously22:01
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luke-jrmicrolith: I "know" parts of it. I strive to follow it best I can.22:02
microlithand yet you use specious reasoning to exclude others22:02
luke-jrspecious reasoning?22:02
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microlithall faith-based "logic" is specious, as it has no grounding in reality22:03
luke-jrnonsense, the Christian Faith *is* reality22:03
microlithyou -think- it is22:03
luke-jrno, it is22:03
trbsinsanely offtopic here22:03
luke-jroff-topic protest noted; moving discussion to ##Catholic22:04
microliththat explains it all22:04
Corsacluke-jr: omg, don't say that you're confusing catholicism and christianism?22:05
luke-jrCorsac: they are the same thing22:05
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Corsacin which way?22:05
luke-jrbut the off-topic has been protested; take it to ##Catholic or drop it22:05
Corsac(except god's one, obviously)22:05
Corsacluke-jr: I won't, but we might take it to ##Christianism22:06
luke-jrCorsac: they both refer to the same religion. ##maemo-offtopic22:06
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RST38biswhat is christianism btw?22:09
luke-jrRST38bis: it's already off-topic enough without nitpicking words22:10
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DocScrutinizerOT warning - official. Protest has been uttered22:10
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* luke-jr tried.22:11
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trbsTo move things back to maemo :) Nokia fixed my N900 in under 2 weeks !! :)22:16
trbsBroken usb/powerplug issue22:16
DocScrutinizerthey fixed? or swapped the mainboard?22:16
trbsswapped the board22:16
trbsnice because it's almost (or entirely) like a brand new device22:16
trbsdrawback... losing all of the data on the onboard mem22:17
* DocScrutinizer wonders where all the corpses wll go22:17
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trbswhich regretfully contained quite a number of patches, fixes I'd worked in the last months22:17
* trbs will soon write a script to rsync the device daily (when charging) :)22:18
trbsyeah good point.... I was thinking that maybe if Nokia for some reason didn't want to fix it... I might be able to power it through the battery connector22:18
trbsand build it into my car or something22:18
RST38bisok, latest ColEm and Speccy are in -testing now, please vote22:18
DocScrutinizerstarhash-enabler in testing now, please vote :-)22:19
trbsor charge the batteries externaly and put it on my MTB with eCoach on it22:19
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trbsBut in the meantime I forced to work on an Andriod (1.5) phone... and I must say... I hated it :)22:19
trbsyou don't realize what a nice device the n900 is until you  loose it :)22:20
RST38bisyes, we are all aware of the effect...22:20
trbsLike sometimes I was complaining that the n900 can be slugish.. Wow wait until you load up an andriod fone... I'll take the few sluginess problems I had on my old n900 any day22:21
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* kthomas_vh_ is deciding on whether to drop his n810 (yet again)22:22
trbsbesides.. now with the new device it is a lot faster... guessing that might have something to do with that my old phone was never flashed clean... I just upgraded the firmwire otw all the time22:22
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DocScrutinizerkthomas_vh_: drop like throw to the ground to destroy it?22:22
DocScrutinizerkthomas_vh_: or simply put to shelf to collect dust?22:23
kthomas_vh_LOL,  drop as in sell and move on22:23
kthomas_vh_perhaps to the n90022:23
* Corsac keeps his n810 to one day do an upnp digiframe, weather station, rss reader22:23
Corsac(though I didn't find anything which would do that for diablo)22:23
DocScrutinizerI got 2 of each, and won't sell any22:23
trbshehe I have my n810 mounted on my bicycle now :)22:24
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kthomas_vh_if there was 2.5 Wimax around more,  I'd be more likely to keep it22:25
DocScrutinizeryou hardly will find any better equipped and more versatile little controller for almost everything you can think of, for the price of a N81022:26
trbssince I get about 7 till 10 hours out of it, with networking off and gps on... it works perfect as a GPS/excersise logger, and map for mounting biking and hiking22:26
kthomas_vh_I didn't say I didn't like it :)22:27
DocScrutinizerI honestly thought about using a couple of them for ultrasmart doorbell communicator22:28
DocScrutinizerincl camera22:28
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kthomas_vh_now that's an interesting use case22:28
DocScrutinizerand leave notes, and open door on enter secret code22:28
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DocScrutinizerfor sme 5 parties22:29
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DocScrutinizeradd a $7.99 noisecubes for computer and you're even done with the big ben doorbell22:30
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DocScrutinizercompare this: -- 1.745EUR :-o22:32
DocScrutinizerand not a 1/10 that smart22:32
trbsdefinitely :)22:34
DocScrutinizer3 x N810 = ~650EUR22:34
DocScrutinizer"cabling" included22:35
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trbsSomeday I want to make a home security / automatisation system using maemo as baseos + gui ... something like beagleboard + 17" touchscreen for basestation and n* device for orbs.. that would be cool :)22:39
trbsif only I had more of this pesky little time thing :)22:40
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DocScrutinizermaemo on beagleboard, hmm22:45
DocScrutinizermaybe go for meego22:45
gobukiGood evening! Want to netboot the ubuntu installer, FreeBSD or clonezilla from your n900? i prepared a pxe root and wrote a little howto:
gobukihave fun :)22:46
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* DocScrutinizer clicks22:46
Stskeepstrbs: base off meego, more sane - and port exists22:46
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DocScrutinizergobuki: VIDEO, give use VIDEO!22:48
gobukia video on how to set it up?22:48
DocScrutinizersee it in action22:48
Stskeepstrbs: and less legal problems :P22:49
DocScrutinizerwith a few words explaining what's going on22:49
DocScrutinizergobuki: +++ :-D22:49
gobukimmh.. my only camera is the n90022:49
DocScrutinizerhm, problem22:49
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: check out gobuki !22:51
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i did22:51
gobukimaybe i'm gonna record it tomorrow22:51
Pforceubuntu on the n900?22:51
gobukino, booted over network from the n90022:51
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: pxe boot for other devices22:52
Corsacdoes elisa exist for diablo?22:52
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toggles_wPforce: see mer22:52
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: ooh22:52
lcuktrbs, write a cover app ontop of linux and it can be running today22:53
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lcukuse n900 maemo, some laptop with some os on it and a couple of little apps22:53
gobukii wish there were a nice gui to start a pxe-boot server and add operating system22:53
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: still cool, but fail to see the usecase22:53
lcukwrite it in qt and it almost doesnt matter what os you sit it on22:53
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infobotgobuki meant: i wish there were a nice gui to start a pxe-boot server and add operating systems22:54
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DocScrutinizerCorsac: elisa, the stupid bot?22:57
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DocScrutinizerwasn't that written in a completely OS indeoendent way?22:57
CorsacDocScrutinizer: hmhm, it's known as moovida now, it seems22:58
lcukgobuki, please do what you can to retain your url when you offer it - being redirected to an ip only is a little disconcerting when I clicked on the normal link22:58
gobukiyeah, sorry. i'm about to move my domain.22:58
* lcuk nods22:59
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DocScrutinizerCorsac: sorry, mixed it with
* lcuk continues drying house23:01
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jacekowski17:55 < lcuk> your remark about shooting things on sight 9 minutes ago was out of order23:02
jacekowskilcuk: so you call them "things"23:02
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* Corsac calls the off-topic police23:04
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jacekowskianyways going back to my shopping today23:06
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jacekowskii went to shop23:06
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: watch your speech. Racist comments are a sure kick on all IRC nets23:06
jacekowskiasked for fs-9423:06
DocScrutinizerCorsac: do not answer!23:06
jacekowskiand well, he said that he can't sell it to me23:07
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DocScrutinizeryep, that's the response I got as well23:07
jacekowskibut i was prepared for that23:07
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jacekowskiand had £200 in cash in my wallet23:07
jacekowskiso i took it out23:08
Corsac(what's fs-94?)23:08
jacekowskiand well, cash makes people so much more cooperative23:08
DocScrutinizerservice mount jig23:08
SpeedEvilFS-94 is a nokia test-bed rig.23:08
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jacekowskihmm, i could have asked for test pads23:09
jacekowskimaybe he would know anything about them23:09
DocScrutinizerhmm yes23:09
gobukiis there a nice way to stop dnsmasq? i see it is started by the af-startup init script.23:10
DocScrutinizeranyway, what *is* FS-94 really now? just a blob of plastics with 3 pogopins? or is LV-shifter included? Battery supply?23:10
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SpeedEvilIIRC it's detailed on the l3/l4 manual23:10
gobukiwhat is osso-af-init?23:11
jacekowskiwell, i've not taken it apart yet23:11
jacekowskibut it looks like there is more stuff inside it23:11
Corsac ok, I'm not exactly sure if it's related, but is that *really* a fs-94 (nsfw, second picture)23:11
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: mhm, and what connectors has it?23:12
DocScrutinizerdoes it come with accessories?23:12
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jacekowskii don't know if it comes with accesories from nokia23:13
jacekowskii just got thingy itself23:13
jacekowskiand it has like d type connector23:13
DocScrutinizerduh, and no matching cable. That's as much as I thought when reading L3_423:14
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DocScrutinizerit's supposed to conect to FOO-4223:14
DocScrutinizeranyway, tobacco finished. Have to leave23:15
* DocScrutinizer waves23:15
jacekowskii don't have correct screwdriver here23:15
jacekowskiso i can't take it apart23:15
ShadowJKwhat shop did you go to?23:15
jacekowskii'm not going to name shop23:16
jacekowskinot in public channel23:16
jacekowskiand not somebody who might be remotely related to nokia23:16
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ShadowJKWell obviously not wallmart? Did you go to a repair shop?23:18
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jacekowskiyes, one of nokia care shops in london23:18
ShadowJKI wonder how much it cost for them to get it23:18
jacekowskiwell, he told me that it costs them around £7023:19
jacekowskiand that's how much i paid in the end23:19
SpeedEvilIt'd be interesting to ask some frontline nokia repairperson about failures23:20
ShadowJKHm.. so you asked if they have one, they said yeah, you wanted to buy it and they said no, you lifted 200 quids onto counter and they sold it for 70?23:20
ShadowJKthat's kinda cool..  I have to try that23:20
jacekowskiwell, i visited couple shop23:20
jacekowski1st one, closes to my home in maldon was a failure23:21
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: For example - how common is USB failure23:21
jacekowskibut i got costs info from them and information if every shop has it23:21
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: and how many come i after being taken apart. :)23:22
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jacekowskii'll skip second shop i visited as i would get banned again for racist comments23:22
jacekowski3rd shop was basicaly question if they would sell it, then i pulled out cash out of my wallet23:24
ShadowJKit's not racist if you don't mention their race, class, ethnicity, political orientation, sexual orientation, or whether they consider waffles breakfast food or dinner food23:24
jacekowskiso mentioning political orientation would be racist?23:24
jacekowskithat's new23:24
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer23:25
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer is trying to look scary23:25
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CorsacShadowJK: waffles are everytime food23:25
jacekowskii suppose i could get it in first shop if i had same information i had when i entered 3rd shop23:26
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ShadowJK70£ is affordable23:27
jacekowskibut that just proves the point23:27
jacekowskimoney can buy everything23:27
SpeedEvilMoney cannot buy this raspberry.23:29
* SpeedEvil holds up a raspberry, and gobbles it.23:29
crashanddieSpeedEvil: did it spill the beans?23:30
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jacekowskibut now i have the most important part23:32
SpeedEvilAlso - anyone in Fife, near Glenrothes want free raspberries?23:32
derfRaspberries are a fungible good.23:32
SpeedEvil(pick your own)23:32
mooserit is spelled "kernel", bot "kernal", everybody23:35
crashanddiemooser: erhm, no.23:37
crashanddieJaffa: around?23:38
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gobukianyone in here who still uses PR 1.1? Can you paste a dnsmasq --version please?23:39
Corsacwhat about raspberry waffles?23:39
gobukii'm trying to remember why i installed a dnsmasq package from lenny when i configured my pxe server some months ago :P23:40
gobukii think i needed it for tftp boot support.. but i'm not sure. The pr 1.2 version supports it out of the box23:41
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: why the +o?23:41
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer23:41
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v infobot23:41
jacekowskiinfobot is back23:42
DocScrutinizersince quite some time23:42
infobotSince Sat Jul 31 16:07:20 2010, there have been 0 modifications, 7 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 2 commands.  I have been awake for 4h 35m 47s this session, and currently reference 117188 factoids.  I'm using about 16468 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 315.92/10.85 child 0/0.0223:43
DocScrutinizereven before. This probably been a reboot for the necessary bugfixes23:43
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technomiken900 just gets better and better. I love it!23:45
DocScrutinizerwas this you to whom I explained that?23:45
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DocScrutinizeryou'll go from 'like'->'love'|'haze'23:46
DocScrutinizerin a few weeks23:46
DocScrutinizerhate even23:46
crashanddieor "indiference"23:47
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crashanddie~sp indifference23:47
crashanddie~wake up23:47
DocScrutinizer~spell indifference23:47
* infobot throws a barrel-full of ice water on up and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!"23:47
infobot'indifference' may be spelled correctly23:47
crashanddie~spell DocScrutinizer23:48
infobotpossible spellings for DocScrutinizer: Scrutinize Scrutinies Scrutineers Scrutineer's Scrutiny's23:48
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crashanddieI would say "DocScrutiniser"23:48
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Corsacgrmbl, can't I force the n810 to boot even when on charger?23:49
pH5gobuki: 2.3523:49
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Corsachmhm, ok, so i managed to do it23:50
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Corsacnot sure how23:50
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gobukipH5: does it have tftp and dhcp compiled in?23:50
mooser_Corsac: i dont see how mobile hotspot works without manual client network config23:50
gobukiit displays the compile time options with --version23:51
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ham5any on the fly voice changer apps ?23:52
pH5gobuki: Jan 16 13:55:15 Nokia-N900-51-1 dnsmasq[1699]: compile time options: IPv6 GNU-getopt no-RTC no-ISC-leasefile DBus no-I18N23:52
ham5auto-tune it up or anything in a phone call? :)23:52
gobukipH5: tyvm23:52
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Macerhm. i have a good signal where i am23:57
Macerusing my l33t0 wifi tethering23:57
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