IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-07-25

famicomor crap like activesync, etc etc etc00:00
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: you might want to study
famicomi wnat something that will play nice with my linux netbooks and linux based servers00:00
LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, already was there00:00
LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, I want to see a version of an already "supported" profile00:01
famicomeven if it means having to do some serious bash-fu00:01
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: sorry, no idea00:01
LiraNunano problem00:01
LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, what version of AVRCP N900 has?00:01
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DocScrutinizerwasn't aware it has at all00:02
LiraNunaas a part of A2DP00:03
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LiraNunaA2DP relies on it00:03
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LiraNunathere we go, sdptool browse00:04
LiraNunaService Name: AVRCP TG00:05
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ShadowJKLiraNuna, sdptool browse00:13
ShadowJKyou discovered00:13
LiraNunawell, it doesn't tell me version, just what profil00:13
LiraNunaI'm guessing 1.0 as my car stereo can't get the currently playing song name00:13
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DocScrutinizerthat could be player app fault though, no?00:17
LiraNunaon what side? car stereo or N900's Media Player00:18
DocScrutinizererrr, would you use A"DP to scp media to your car audio's player?00:19
DocScrutinizeraiui your car audio is a giant headset in this scenario00:19
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DocScrutinizerso no player involved on car side00:20
ShadowJKWell A2DP+AVRCP is on the same level of complexity as a media player :-)00:21
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LiraNunait would be splendid to get 1.3 working, 1.0 is working great00:26
LiraNunaand even pressing play starts the media player00:26
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LiraNunaProfile Descriptor List: "AV Remote" (0x110e) Version: 0x010000:48
LiraNunaversion 1.0 :(00:48
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AlMehdiDoes someone here understand how to repartition? I got stuck on the PR1.2 way of repartitioning.. the old way from the wiki doesn't work.01:40
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AlMehdiI want to increase the /home partiton. I got the partition table finished.. I am just little unsure of the procedure.01:46
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cehtehmhm how can one run out of space on /home ? install all possible apps?01:52
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AlMehdiWhen i made my backup it was 4 gig01:54
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cehtehdefault is 2gig01:56
AlMehdiI know.. thus i want to repartition again01:56
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AlMehdiDon't need vfat so much.. just for camera01:57
cehtehi only changed mydocs and mmc1 .. home should be doable but i didnt read the wiki page just be creative :) .. the problem is that you have to shutdown anythnig which has files open there to be able to repartition01:58
cehtehi have ext4 .. for camera too01:58
AlMehdiohhh :)01:58
AlMehdiis that possible?01:58
AlMehdiwould love ext401:58
cehtehyes .. but well .. if you dont know how then better dont try01:59
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cehtehand you dont need to repartition or change /home .. the MyDocs is mounted inside there01:59
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FIQ|n900the UI only let's me to format my SD card to VFAT, i would prefer having it as ext3. Trying to umount it success, but mkfs.ext3 still think it's mounted. Checking in file manager actually shows the card, but the size info doesn't make sense. What am I doing wrong?02:00
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AlMehdii know02:01
cehtehthe worse you cant just reformat you have to change a lot stuff02:01
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AlMehdidamn.. it was so easy last time :(02:01
Macerdoes nokia allow the nit-droid guys access to the same blobs that meego is getting?02:01
cehtehbecause the nokia scripts mount the first found ext3 as /home and the first found vfat as MyDocs02:01
Macermeaning. can they use the linux hal of android and just kind of plug the blobs into it to get the hardware working? or does nokia discourage that?02:02
cehtehyou have to deal with this scripts .. fixing them, or just disabling them and write your own mount stuff02:02
FIQ|n900(the file info shows that the card size is 227MB, 177MB used, 50MB free while "ls -l" in /media shows a "mmc1" that's 160B)02:02
FIQ|n900while the card actually is 16GB02:02
cehtehMacer: the n900 kernel is untainted ... anyone who has a n900 has the license to use this blobs02:02
FIQ|n900The problem goes away if i remount it, but why this behaviour?02:03
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AlMehdithat is how i got the table setup.. first vfat then ext3 and last swap. But when i rebooted i got into a reboot loop02:04
cehtehyes you have to fix the scripts02:05
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cehtehits not the usual mount -a mounting anything from fstab02:05
AlMehdiif i flash the PR1.1 would i get the PR1.2 OTA?02:05
cehtehthis sux a bit you have to figure that stuff out02:05
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cehtehwhy dont you flash 1.2?02:05
keriofamicom: the system is fully read-write, no ROMs here02:05
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kerioexpect a sometimes quirky and inconsistant UI, pretty much like linux on desktop02:06
AlMehdii have.. but last time i partitioned i had PR1.1..02:06
kerioapart from that, it's great02:06
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famicomkerio thanks02:06
cehtehhuh .. flashed the wrong image?02:06
AlMehdiNow with PR1.2 the reboot loop comes with the same precedure02:06
famicomand it can't be any worse than windows mobile02:06
luke-jrAlMehdi: as far as repartitioning, I just changed sizes and positions, and left the partition table numbered the same02:07
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cehtehyou need to flash emmc too when you fucked up the partitioning of the emmc of ocurse02:07
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cehtehand you loose all your date .. if you dont have already :P02:07
cehtehluke-jr: if the nokia scripts wouldnt be that stupid only02:08
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luke-jrcehteh: ?02:08
luke-jrcehteh: it worked fine for me02:08
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cehtehwhen you change the filesystem type its fucked up02:09
cehtehjust repartitioning may work ...02:09
luke-jrI didn't :p02:09
luke-jrI left the existing partition table alone, except for sizes and positions02:09
luke-jrafter I changed those, I just tacked on my own at the end :P02:09
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trumeeluke-jr: i have tested with centos and freeswitch, the results were similar to gentoo. crap sip performance.02:11
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luke-jrtold you XD02:12
AlMehdiluke-jr: so you just "sfdisk -d /dev/mmcblk0 > table", edited the table and then "sfdisk --no-reread /dev/mmcblk0 < table"02:12
trumeeluke-jr: also, i was wrong about 3g, i get poor performance with 3g too02:12
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luke-jrAlMehdi: basically02:12
trumeeluke-jr: so i think it might be that N900 is at fault02:12
luke-jrtrumee: oh, that changes everything02:12
luke-jrtrumee: no, N900 works fine for me02:13
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AlMehdihmm.. that is what i do. But when i reboot it gets into a loop02:13
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keriofamicom: i mean, you can install and boot fremantle (maemo 5) from a microsd02:13
luke-jrtrumee: this new development with 3G means it's your Asterisk/FreeSWITCH config or system02:13
kerioor meego02:13
kerioor android02:13
trumeeluke-jr: i have virgin install of centos and freeswitch02:13
trumeeluke-jr: it works flawless with Linksys ATA.02:14
trumeeluke-jr: i will wander on the street where i have a better 3g signal to test again02:14
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trumeei want to do a tcpdump over usb0 but it gives an error02:15
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trumeeluke-jr: do you use your own pbx?02:17
luke-jrtrumee: yes02:17
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DocScrutinizerSIP isn't easy to debug THAT way. Maybe ATA using G711a codec while N900 for sure using something much more complex and lower bandwidth02:23
trumeeDocScrutinizer: i made sure both ATA and N900 use PCMU codec02:23
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DocScrutinizerso why don't you simply dissect and analyze network traffic on your PBX freeswitch (whatever that is), using e.g wireshark? (strongly recommend)02:26
DocScrutinizerthen you'll see whatever the diffs are between ATA and N90002:26
DocScrutinizerno matter if it's packet loss, jitter, or diferent session negotiation, wireshark will show you02:27
DocScrutinizeronce you know where the diffs are, you probably got a decent clue about how to tackle it02:28
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trumeeluke-jr: i have the same shitty experience over usb.02:32
smharI want to learn to develop in qt for N900, and maybe python too, which one should I install and use: qt sdk or maemo sdk?02:33
trumeeluke-jr: i want to capture a trace and update bug report #10388.02:33
DocScrutinizerfine! so what now?02:33
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: sorry missed you posts02:34
Jartzasmhar: qt sdk is easier to install at least02:34
trumeeDocScrutinizer: i should run wireshark on PBX rather than N900?02:34
DocScrutinizersure, why not?02:34
trumeethat is a good thought.02:35
DocScrutinizerI mean, only there you can compare ATA to N900, no?02:35
smharI have debian so I think thing the other will  be too difficult? what other difference other than ease of installation?02:35
DocScrutinizeralso you say on N900 you can't even get tcpdump to work02:35
trumeei cannot use tcpdump for usb0, it works fine for wlan002:36
smharI am googling this but can not seem to find a comparison between the two SDKs02:37
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luke-jrsmhar: Maemo SDK probably has cross-compiler etc02:37
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DocScrutinizersmhar: none of both is suitable for python aiui02:38
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Jartzasmhar: maemo sdk utilises scratchbox and is more complete maemo-distribution, but requires more components to be installed02:38
Jartzasmhar: and qt sdk provides a simulator which just simulated maemo look'n'feel02:39
Jartzaof course I'm just simplifying02:39
DocScrutinizerstill is not the right environment for pyQt02:39
DocScrutinizernone of both02:40
trumeeDocScrutinizer: tcpdump on PBX will reflect jitter on N900?02:40
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DocScrutinizersmhar: check out this fine tutorial:
DocScrutinizertrumee: if your PBX gets jittery signal from UA then you'll see when tracing traffic with wireshark02:41
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DocScrutinizertrumee: if the signal arriving at PBX has no jitter, then where's the problem?02:42
DocScrutinizeraiui your issues are 'upstream', means far end has bad sound02:42
trumeeDocScrutinizer: No i am simply calling to the voicemail of the PBX.02:43
DocScrutinizerif N900 has bad sound, then probably tracing traffic on sender side PBX won't reveal jitter problems of the line to N90002:43
smhardocscrutinizer, thanks02:43
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: he's tried multiple lines02:43
luke-jrincluding USBnet directly N900 to PBX02:44
smharJartza, so If I use the maemo sdk I will get no simulator?02:44
luke-jrand also including my known-good N900 over the internet02:44
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: mhm, and what was the jitter on each of them, what was the packet loss, whicg details had SDP?02:44
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: pretty sure no packet loss from here02:45
luke-jrat least none MTR is picking up02:45
DocScrutinizerwell, go on swapping random parts and jumping clockwise or counter.. on one feet until you think you spotted the problem02:45
Jartzasmhar: using maemo sdk you're using real X server (xephyr for instance) and real application framework02:45
* DocScrutinizer shrugs02:45
Jartzasmhar: that's also kind of simulator, but "more real" :)02:46
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DocScrutinizerand real C02:46
DocScrutinizerand no pyQt02:46
smharJartza, sound like the maemo sdk wins02:46
DocScrutinizerwell you *could*02:46
smhardocscrutinizer, c or qt which is c++?02:46
smhardocscrutinizer, well I think for python I will use something else02:47
JartzaI personally like maemo sdk more, but it's just that I'm more of a command-line-guy :)02:47
smharJartza, so maemo sdk is more command-line and qt sdk is more gui?02:48
Jartzamaemo sdk doesn't include an ide02:48
smhardocscrutinizer, can you suggest a pyqt platform?02:48
Jartzayou can use ide if you wish, but you have to install it separately02:49
DocScrutinizerpyqt runs in any shell02:49
DocScrutinizerjust start the "sorce"-file, like bash script02:49
Jartzaat least eclipse is possible02:49
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smharJartza, so how do you develop? use qt designer and qt creator ?02:49
JartzaI use gedit and command-line :)02:49
DocScrutinizerwon't work with python, but meh02:50
Jartzaand sometimes designer too to create at least a base to work on02:50
DocScrutinizerqt designer is creating pseudo c++ code sniplets02:50
DocScrutinizerreally hard to integrate with python02:51
smhardocscrutinizer, I already installed pygtkeditor in N900, and I have drpython on my debian02:51
Jartzadesigner creates xml02:51
DocScrutinizerJartza: ok, maybe it's qmake then02:52
DocScrutinizerthat transforms them to c++02:52
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DocScrutinizerI'm not aware of a way to transform to python though02:52
Jartzait's uic02:52
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DocScrutinizernow I remember02:53
Jartzaand for python you have pyuic402:53
JartzaI don,t think it's any harder than with C++ :)02:53
DocScrutinizerJartza: thanks for educating me :-)02:54
Lantahey totally off topic question :)    if someone was to use the phrase "9 root 2" they're basically saying the square root of 9 right?02:54
smharleave python for now and let us see how to do the qt part. so with maemo sdk, I need to rely on other 'command-line' tools to create the actual code  then simulate on the host computer then compile and transfer. is this correct? what about the qt sdk?02:54
Jartzasmhar: with maemo sdk you create usually 2 "targets" for sscratchbox02:55
DocScrutinizersmhar: Qt isn't creating programs, it's just to create objects (mostly gfx obj) for you, and you need a *real* prog language to use them. This can be either Python or C++02:56
Jartzaone for x86 and one for arm02:56
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Jartzawhen you run the apps on your pc you compile and run and debug them in x86 target02:56
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Jartzaand when you finally want to compile the app to n900 you switch to arm target (and cross-compiler)02:57
DocScrutinizermoot for python02:57
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DocScrutinizeras python isn't exactly compiled02:57
smhardocscrutinizer, Jartza, I only have experience with Visual Basic, Delphi -Object Pascal- and little php, so forgive my ignorance and newbieism02:57
DocScrutinizer(leave alone JIT-compiler)02:58
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Jartzasmhar: that's ok :)02:59
DocScrutinizerwell, with VB you have a good example. Qt is the windows designer in VB, and you still need some real language you write the code in and that can be Python or C++ (or a lot of others) for Qt, and for VB it's VB sourcecode02:59
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Jartzasmhar: but I do suggest learning at least C++ basics before jumping into Qt as it's the "native" lang for Qt03:00
timelessdelphi is better as an example03:01
trumeeluke-jr: i am going back to gentoo, centos wasnt very useful!03:01
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Jartzathere's some documents I wrote for Nokia with my colleague03:01
timelessqt's designer is like a designer03:01
timelessbut qt is like vcl03:01
luke-jrtrumee: told you03:01
Jartzaalthough they are mostly for GTK+ but it also covers basic knowledge about maemo and installing the SDK03:01
timelesswhich you could use w/ delphi or c++builder or kylix03:02
smhartimeless, and I loved delphi way better than VB anyway :-)03:02
trumeeluke-jr: if only the Nokia dev could respond. He has stopped communicating.03:02
trumeetimeless: yes03:03
Jartzasmhar: check at least the getting started and maybe technology overview from the link03:03
timelesswhat issue/area/dev?03:03
trumeetimeless: bug 10388, sip, Mikhail Zabaluev03:04
povbotBug Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem?03:04
Jartzawe spent a lot of time creating those documents. I'm not sure if anyone ever read those :)03:04
smharseems I have a lot of reading to do even before I instal an sdk , petty , I wanted to get a feel :-)03:04
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* timeless clicks03:04
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Jartzasmhar: read those docs, install the maemo sdk. it's a nice way to learn.03:05
Jartzafor easy way, just instgall the qt sdk and start with some qt tutorial :)03:05
smharJartza, there should be a page with development information as wiki linked from the main maemo.org03:05
Jartzathat was the original plan03:05
Jartzaactually first to have those self/course training materials with their own wiki page with community add-ons03:06
Jartzabut when Qt came, forum nokia took over the process of providing the training materials... and... well... they sucked at it :(03:07
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Jartzanow the information is scattered here and there03:08
Jartzait sometimes pisses me off as we really spent months writing that training material :)03:08
JartzaI'd love to create same kind of training material for maemo/meego with qt but unfortunately I can't afford to use my time for that now :(03:10
smharthere should be an effort to gather those information to help push the development for N900. I have several ideas for different application for N900 that I want to start ranging from games to utilities but I am spending too much time and effort gathering the information from here and google just to start starting03:10
Jartza...or maybe even better03:10
timelessplease note that nokianstend to take the month of july off..03:11
Jartzaand I also love teaching03:12
JartzaI've actually trained over 200 nokians to Qt programming basics :)03:12
SpeedEvil'It reads the manual, or it gets the hose again'.03:14
smharJartza, can you add another one? I can wait tell end of july :-)03:14
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timelessa whole week? wow, how patient of you03:14
Jartzaask nokia? :)03:14
Jartzathey're paying for it. that's how I make my living...03:15
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* timeless is glad to hear jartza is being paid for his efforts03:16
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Jartzame too03:16
smharJartza, so how to apply?03:16
Jartzamostly nokians apply through learning center03:17
Jartzaand learning center buys the course from someone. not necessarily from me.03:18
Jartzaalthough I also sell courses to other companies than nokia too.03:18
Jartzapersonal training I haven't tried yet, usually there's at least 3 attendants :)03:19
JartzaI tend to be much cheaper than the bigger training-houses :)03:20
Jartzaalso some universities in finland have also bought me to train maemo-qt03:21
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smharso does it cost me anything to apply through Nokia's learning center?03:22
Jartzano if you work for nokia? :)03:22
JartzaIt's only for nokians03:23
* timeless chuckle03:23
* timeless chuckles03:23
timelessit's billed to our cost centers03:23
timelessbut the cost is living here in finland03:23
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timelessit*s raining right now..03:23
JartzaI travel too :)03:24
timeless(and i don"t have a jacket)03:24
JartzaI've trained people in boston, vancouver and bangalore too :)03:24
timelessoh sure, you could live in olou03:24
timelessor tampere03:24
timelessthat's much better03:24
JartzaI live in nummi-pusula :)03:25
timelessoh wait, tyat's still finland but w/ less nightlife03:25
timelessthe food shops probably close @10p03:25
smharit is hot here, night time now, but it reaches more than 45 degrees noon time in a good day03:25
Jartzait's countryside. peace and quiet.03:25
* timeless just grabbed dinner shortly after 3a03:25
Jartzathe nearest store is 10km away :)03:26
trumeetimeless, i hope i get a response after july then03:26
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timelesstrumee: so..03:26
timelessafaict most of our code is in gst upstream git03:26
Jartzasmhar: so, mostly the company buys me to come to train from 3 up to 15 persons at a time03:27
Jartzaand we organize 3 to 5 days course03:27
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trumeetimeless: you work for Nokia?03:27
timelessin theory you could probably generate your own03:27
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smharunlucky me :-( so my only training is reading, forums and irc channels :-)03:27
trumeetimeless: in theory :)03:27
timelesstrumee: either that or i pretend to talk like a nokian for fun03:27
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JartzaI used to work for nokia, but now I'm just an private entrepreneur03:28
trumeetimeless: isnt Nokia lucky to have community buy their devices and do testing for them :p03:28
timelessluckier than apple who skips testing altogether?03:29
Jartzasmhar: well if you don't have any company to pay your course, then I would suggest irc, tutorials and books :/03:29
timelessbut look at it this way..03:29
DocScrutinizertrumee: even reverse engineering :-P03:29
timelessthe source is open03:30
timelessso you're actually testing and contributing to open source03:30
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timelesswhile you keep a mostly working product03:30
Jartzasmhar: or ask some local universities if they're organizing an open course03:30
Jartzalike they did in finland, in jyväskylä03:31
timelessand nokia takes the money you paid to employ people who work on that open source software03:31
Jartzathe course participants only had to pay like 40 euros for the 4 day course03:31
trumeetimeless: dont get me started on that. I bought N900 mainly for its sip capabilities, and still after 3 months of buying it i have not been able to make one decent call.03:31
trumeetimeless: if i knew this i would have NEVER bought a N900. My N95 rocks with sip calls.03:32
* DocScrutinizer yawns03:32
timelessit looks like the 'plan' is to add some QoS markers to the packets03:32
trumeetimeless: now you are talking :)03:32
timelessi've had fairly good sip experience w/ my n900 since december or so03:33
timelessuntil this month03:33
DocScrutinizertimeless: netfilters03:33
timelessi suspect my sip carrier (nokia) did something stupid :(03:33
Jartzabut still. would be nice to do some online-training too but unfortunately I can't afford that :(03:33
Jartzanot for free. as training is buying my bread atm.03:34
trumeetimeless: so is there work being carried out for that bug (10388)?03:34
timelesstrumee: is your sip inbound a phone number or an address?03:34
trumeetimeless: an address.03:34
smharthanks every body.. need to sleep now, tomorrow I have lots of reading to do :-)03:34
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timelessthere was vaguely useful chatter through june03:35
trumeetimeless: i am happy to setup an extension for your if you want to try.03:35
timelessyeah, i'd like to try03:35
trumeetimeless: i have tried both asterisk and freeswitch, with the same result03:35
timelessin theory i have an ekiga account here03:35
DocScrutinizertimeless: how does that make any diff?03:35
Jartzahmm. should I sleep too.03:35
timelessbut i haven't managed to use it03:35
timelessdocs: which?03:35
DocScrutinizeraddr vs number03:36
timelessi'm offering "one good call"03:36
timelessoh, if it's a number, i'd just call it w/ my nokia sip03:36
timelessif it's an address, i'm not sure nokia sip has an interface for that03:36
timelesswhich means trying ekiga03:36
DocScrutinizeryeah, n900 sip client too stupid to call direct sip addresses03:37
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timelesssorry, by nokia sip, i mean that's my carrier03:37
timelesslike ekiga03:38
DocScrutinizerekiga, pff03:38
DocScrutinizertwinkle ftw03:38
timelessnot nokia sip like the stack/software03:38
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Jartzaoh well. g'nite everyone03:40
DocScrutinizeranyway QoA can easily be handled outside UA03:41
timelessplease keep in mind that i'm a browser guy03:42
DocScrutinizerand it's mostly useless nowadays anyway03:42
timelessi only use sip and laugh @QoS03:42
luke-jrtimeless: so I should rant about MicroB needing SOCKS support? ;)03:42
DocScrutinizercarriers do their own homegrown priorizing03:42
timelessluke: gecko supports socks03:43
timelesstry pac?03:43
luke-jrtimeless: pac? wtf?03:43
timelessproxy auto config03:43
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luke-jrit's too late anyway03:45
luke-jrI used iptables to socksify it03:45
timelesstrumee: second playback was ok03:47
timelessbut there's some loss from the automated lady03:47
trumeetimeless: did you have any breaks/gaps?03:47
timelessgaps i guess03:47
trumeetimeless: yes, that is the issue03:47
timelessi'm using 3.5g fwiw03:47
trumeetimeless: with N95 or a Linksys ATA the voice is smooth like butter03:48
trumeetimeless: you dont have access to wifi?03:48
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timelesskinda hard to use wifi while walking home from food..03:49
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timelessbesides, your bug blamed powersaving03:49
timelesswhich afaiu is a wifi thing03:49
trumeeyes, but i have tested with usbnet and i have the same issues03:50
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trumeethat bug is incorrect. it is not a PSM issue03:50
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timelessyou didn't mention that in the bug03:50
trumeeatleast the bug i have here is not related to psm03:50
timelesssilly reporter, withholding valuable info03:50
trumeei checked with usbnet today03:50
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trumeebut if you read the last comment i did mention that PSM is not an issue. i did some tcpdump traces and sent it to Mikhail.03:51
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timelessyeah the internal03:51
trumeeunfortunately, tcpdump doesnt work with usbnet. so i cant get the traces for that03:52
timelesshad some hint it might not be psm03:52
timelessbut the summary still says psm03:52
SpeedEviltrumee: tcpdump the other side03:52
trumeetimeless: good to know that03:52
luke-jrSpeedEvil: both sides are usbnet :)03:52
timelessdoes this lady actually list numbers?03:52
timelessi hear her say "to listen to new messages press (nothing)"03:52
timelessi hear her say "to listen to saved messages press (nothing)"03:53
trumeepackets are dropping for you.03:53
trumeeThe audio should be  continous.03:53
timelessit's odd that they're always *those* packets03:53
luke-jrtimeless: it's not always those; I listened to it loop a few times and other parts dropped out03:54
luke-jrmy guess is that it's at the start of a new recording03:54
timelesssince this is easy for you to trigger w/ her, is there any reason you couldn't leave an account for testing?03:54
timelessluke: yeah it seems to be when samples change03:55
luke-jrmaybe it's the recording files03:55
luke-jrand the N900 not liking something in the data03:55
timelessbtw, my mbp is in for repairs so all i have is this n90003:55
timelessand my other n90003:55
luke-jrtrumee: have you tested with an actual call?03:55
timelesswell, and my g503:55
* timeless was hoping to test w/ a live call03:55
timelessspeaking or listening to voicemail isn't really appealing03:56
timelessi mean.. her voice wasn't bad or anything, but..03:56
luke-jrtimeless: what's your extension? :p03:56
trumeetimeless: unfortunately, my partner will shoot me if the phone rings at 2 am :)03:56
luke-jrtrumee: timeless and I can chat then03:57
timelesspoke me in +16 or so?03:57
luke-jrtimeless: are you 3001?03:57
timelessbut yeah if you can setup a bridge..03:57
timelesss/setup/set up/03:57
infobottimeless meant: but yeah if you can set up a bridge..03:57
trumeeok, let me setup a extension for timeless03:57
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trumeeyup, will do that. just a sec03:58
luke-jrtimeless: I'm extension 3000, so I figured you'd be 300103:58
timelesshacking his service already?03:58
* timeless is pleasantly surprised that the call was established at all03:59
luke-jrno, I tested earlier03:59
luke-jrtimeless: yeah, I had NAT issues when I setup my own SIP...03:59
luke-jrthen DNS issues... :p04:00
trumeeluke-jr: i dont see you registered04:00
luke-jrtrumee: ...04:00
timelessok, someone gets to talk me through setting up sip :)04:00
luke-jrmy N900 is being very slow04:00
trumeeluke-jr: i have setup 3001 for timeless04:01
timelessthe last sip i set up was new year's eve (literally)04:01
luke-jr"Internet connection required"04:01
luke-jrF U N900 >:O04:01
luke-jrtrumee: "Authentication failed"04:01
timelessluke: i've been meaning to fix that error04:02
trumeeluke-jr: hmm. let me check that04:02
timelessit should say "account is not connected"04:02
luke-jrtimeless: yes04:02
luke-jrtimeless: or attempt regardless04:02
luke-jrSIP can work w/o an active registration04:02
trumeeluke-jr: no your username and password are same as before04:02
trumeei can see timeless has now registered04:03
luke-jrseriously, my N900 is lagging like crazy04:03
luke-jrwe keep getting disconnected O.o04:05
timeless7s of audio isn't much04:05
luke-jrtimeless: I'm not hanging up04:05
trumeeare you able to hear each other?04:05
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luke-jrtrumee: until we get disconnected04:05
timelessi can hear the little one respond to me04:05
timelesswith a question04:06
timelessvery cute btw04:06
trumeeno idea why you are getting disconnected04:06
luke-jrtrumee: that's what asterisk -vvvvvvvvvr is for04:06
timelessok, got a network error for your sip04:06
trumeenothing in the log of freeswitch04:07
trumeegive me a sec and i will setup extensions in asterisk04:07
timelessJul 25 04:06:17 Nokia-N900 maemo-launcher[2234]: opening of /usr/bin/rtcom-accounts-ui.launch took 9583 usec04:09
timelessJul 25 04:06:17 Nokia-N900 rtcom-accounts-ui[2234]: GLIB WARNING ** mc-client - Unrecognized presence `online'04:09
timelessJul 25 04:06:18 Nokia-N900 rtcom-accounts-ui[2234]: GLIB WARNING ** rtcom-accounts-ui - VALUE NOT FOUND04:09
timelessJul 25 04:06:18 Nokia-N900 rtcom-accounts-ui[2234]: GLIB WARNING ** rtcom-accounts-ui - VALUE NOT FOUND04:09
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* timeless admires that second line04:09
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luke-jrtrumee: meh, lemme test w/ FS again04:12
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timelessJul 25 04:04:44 Nokia-N900 telepathy-stream-engine[2211]: GLIB WARNING ** default - bus_async_handler: got warning: Internal GStreamer error: clock problem.  Please file a bug at (gstbin.c(2308): gst_bin_do_latency_func (): /GstPipeline:pipeline0/FsRtpConference:fsrtpconference0/GstBin:bin1: Failed to configure latency of 0:00:00.000000000)04:12
trumeeluke-jr: you sure, i have rebooted into asterisk now?04:12
luke-jrtrumee: I don't care which, just let me talk to timeless :p04:13
timelessdid you guys ever actually file a bug in bgo?04:13
timelessyeah, lemme talk to his lil' one :)04:13
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luke-jryou might actually get to talk to the little one this time04:14
timelessjr jr?04:14
luke-jrlast time was the 2 year old04:14
trumeesorry for both of you password is now abcd12304:14
trumeelimitation of my freepbx/* needs stronger passwords04:14
trumeei have setup extensions for you with the above password in asterisk04:15
trumeegood to go.04:15
* luke-jr wonders how long until cracklib starts indexing IRC logs and banning words found04:15
trumee3001 isnt registered yet04:16
luke-jrtimeless: slowpoke04:16
timelesssorry, was in another window04:16
trumeeok, both up now04:16
timelessgell over?04:17
infobottimeless meant: fell over?04:17
timelessJul 25 04:17:00 Nokia-N900 e-addressbook-factory[1173]: GLIB WARNING ** eds/tp - avatar_updated_cb at e-book-backend-tp-cl.c:1122: got AvatarUpdated for contact we don't know about (handle: 1)04:18
luke-jrit doesn't work04:18
timelessthat's a cute error04:18
timelessoh yeah, this n900 seems to be running pr1.2 fwiw04:19
trumeetimeless: you phone is registering and unregistering again and again04:19
timelesswhat should i do?04:19
timelessit's too cute to kick04:19
timelessand i'm running out of personal computers :(04:20
trumeeyour 3g connection is flaky i guess04:20
timelessthis is wifi04:21
timelessJul 25 04:20:58 Nokia-N900 osso-addressbook[1703]: GLIB WARNING ** libosso-abook - (osso-abook-avatar-cache.c:158):prune_n_items: runtime check failed: (queue_length != g_hash_table_size (priv->cached_images))04:21
timelessi switched after i said "brb"04:21
trumeetimeless: unregistered again04:22
* timeless wonders why osso-addressbook is complaining04:22
trumeetimeless: i guess you need to set your keep alive period low04:22
timelessas a user, i don't have an address book window open..04:23
timelesstrumee: pretend i'm an end user04:23
timelesswhere do i go to change whatever?04:23
trumeetimeless: in sip settings, Advanced. Keep alive period, set it to 30sec04:23
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timelessoh, 30s, not 1m04:24
trumeetimeless: i guess lower will be better.04:25
luke-jrwell guys, I have to go give my older 3 a bath04:25
* timeless selects 30s04:25
luke-jrso... back in 30 mins maybe?04:25
timelessit's 4:30am here04:25
timelessi might be asleep04:25
timelessbut that's doutful, tv to watch..04:26
timelessso poke me04:26
trumeetimeless, luke-jr: i will have the extensions for you04:26
trumeebut i might be asleep. but you dont need me.04:26
timelesstrumee: connection still seems unhappy?04:26
trumeetimeless: it is currently unregistered.04:27
* timeless kicks it04:28
trumeetimeless: can you go offline on availability and online again.04:28
luke-jrtrumee: does your PBX have a local firewall?04:28
trumeetimeless: ok, it is registered now04:28
trumeeluke-jr: no firewall here04:28
luke-jrnot even modules loaded?04:28
timelessJul 25 04:27:57 Nokia-N900 osso-addressbook[1703]: GLIB WARNING ** libosso-abook - (osso-abook-avatar-cache.c:158):prune_n_items: runtime check failed: (queue_length != g_hash_table_size (priv->cached_images))04:28
timelessJul 25 04:28:02 Nokia-N900 last message repeated 117 times04:28
luke-jroh well, bbiab04:28
trumeetimeless: gone offline again04:28
timelessyeah, i see the green (!)04:29
trumeetimeless: luke-jr connection alright though04:29
timelessthis is the fp instead of asterisk?04:29
trumeeno this is *04:29
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timelesswhy did it work before?04:30
trumeeis your auto-dectect stun enabled?04:30
timelessshould it be?04:30
trumeeyes, it should be04:30
timelessthe only change i made was timeout=30s04:30
trumeepreviously (when you had a 7s call) it was in freeswitch04:31
timeless3.5g, no fw04:32
trumeehmm. it has registered now04:32
trumeeyou could try calling 904, it is an echo service04:32
timelessthe wifi router i have here is fairly standard nokia issue to employees04:33
trumeeor *4304:33
trumeetimeless: no wonder N900 is buggy :p04:33
timeless904 seems fine04:34
trumeetimeless: yes, it is alright some times.04:34
trumeetimeless: when the call craps out the solution is to put the call on hold and then it works fine for a few seconds04:35
* timeless nods04:35
timelessi did read the bug report ;p04:35
trumeetimeless: so have the devs identified a solution?04:36
timelesstrumee: i'll get the wifi router specs some other time04:36
timelessthey only suggested adding qos markers04:37
timelessi guess they hoped that'd avoid the problem04:37
trumeetimeless: also wondering whether mikhail updated the internal bug report with the second trace i sent him04:37
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timelessgive me a rough "after date"?04:38
trumeetimeless: unfortunately, i did not get acknowledgement from him, although u update the bug report04:38
trumeetimeless: 2010-07-0304:38
timelesshe might be on vacation04:39
* timeless doesn't feel like asking outlook to schedule a meeting to verify this04:39
trumeetimeless: :)04:40
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trumeei know his facebook handle  :)04:40
* timeless doesn't have fb04:41
* lcuk makes note not to drive 200 miles at end of a long day04:41
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timelesskinda like trying to cycle from santa cruz back to santa clara after 7pm?04:42
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trumeeAre there people outside nokia working on sip as well? There was somebody from collabora commenting on that bug report as well04:42
timelessdoesn't work well04:42
lcuktimeless, 200 miles starting at 11pm04:42
timelessthey work w/ us04:42
lcuknot good04:42
lcukhow far is the santa cruz route04:42
timelessolivier crete or such?04:43
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trumeetimeless: your sip connection on 3g has been farely stable now04:43
trumeetimeless: yes04:43
timelessthe other way is 3:3004:43
timelessi've never successfully returned from santa cruz04:44
timelessgoing down from santa clara is easy04:44
* lcuk just left olivier i think04:44
lcuk(since we were at collabora 5th birthday bash04:45
timelessgmaps says 4h 21m04:45
lcukcool, i just somehow managed to be home under the gmaps estimate :$04:46
lcuk(for my journey)04:46
timelessthe path seems familiar04:47
timelessanyway, cycling is best done in the morning04:47
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timelessor downhill04:48
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timelessnot stuffed and tired uphill04:48
lcuki had a mad cycle dash across cambridge and back last night04:48
AlMehdiI solved my partition problem. I reflashed to PR1.1 and then i partitioned like before. When i was done i just upgraded to PR1.2 OTA.04:48
* timeless misses cycling04:48
* timeless misses cali04:49
lcukhow long till you are back there?04:49
lcukor is it at your descretion?04:49
timelessmore like winds/wings of fate04:49
timelessi'd need a job04:49
timelesscali isn't a great place to be w/o income..04:50
timelessotoh, qgil managed to get there (using nok!)04:50
* lcuk nods04:51
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timelesswow, google st view requires flash1004:53
timelessso, gmaps overshot my place by perhaps 5mins on the destination :)04:54
timelessand maybe 10mins on the origin04:54
timelessbut otherwise the path was correct04:54
timelessoh, but my starting point to go down to sc tended to be 30mins south of sc which probably accounts for the rest04:55
trumeetimeless: i need to get some sleep now. i have update the bug report to reflect my findings on usbnet and your/luke-jr tests. Thanks for your help.04:55
lcuktrumee, which bug btw04:56
trumeelcuk: #1038804:56
crashanddiebug #1038804:57
povbotBug Choppy audio in SIP conversation, WLAN power save problem?04:57
lcukoh, i tohught it was an nb#04:57
lcukheya crashanddie \o04:57
crashanddieyo lcuk04:57
* lcuk finds the nb04:58
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timelessthe audio seems fine05:05
trumeei should have setup extensions using g729.05:05
timelessno video05:05
trumeebecause i mostly use that05:05
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trumeetimeless:  i have updated the codecs allowed. you will have video this time using h26305:07
trumeetimeless: also, i have set g729 as the first codec05:07
trumeeso with audio only, you will use g729. With video you will use h26305:08
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trumeetimeless: audio is very unpredictable, it works for about 10 minutes and then voice screws up.05:09
trumeetimeless: one-off testing doesnt give the right picture.05:10
timelessok, he's going to read a book05:12
timelessand i'll charge my phone05:12
trumeetimeless: was this audio again this time?05:13
timelessvideo seems to kill audio for this uplink05:13
timelessin theory it's a video call but w/ cameras off on both sides05:13
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timeless@4mins now05:14
trumeehmm. i have never tested video call at length05:14
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trumeethe packets traces i sent to mikhail were shorter than these.05:14
timelesswell it isn't carrying video right now05:14
trumeeyes, but the codec will be h263 rather than g72905:14
trumeei think05:14
timelessJul 25 05:15:09 Nokia-N900 telepathy-stream-engine[2547]: dsph263enc0: failed waiting for events05:15
timelessJul 25 05:15:11 Nokia-N900 last message repeated 2 times05:15
timelessJul 25 05:15:11 Nokia-N900 telepathy-stream-engine[2547]: GLIB WARNING ** default - bus_async_handler: got warning: Compensating for audio synchronisation problems (gstbaseaudiosink.c(1515): gst_base_audio_sink_render (): /GstPipeline:pipeline0/GstPulseSink:pulsesink0: Unexpected discontinuity in audio timestamps of more than half a second (0:00:00.600750000), resyncing)05:16
trumeesetting up the voice mail extension for mikhail will be good. Unfortunately, that is with freeswitch which sits on the other partiton. i need to reboot to get into that05:16
pigeonhmm, i notice the n900 keep losing the automatic/manual network selection settings.05:17
trumeetimeless: are these in your syslog?05:17
timelessi can probably provide the logs05:17
timelessafter i verify they don't have anything confi05:17
trumeemaybe you can attach to that bug or the nokia internal buglog05:18
timelessconfi can mean personal :)05:18
timelesswe had a bug about calendar not showing my birthday on a colleague's n90005:18
timelesshe wasn't willing to share his contacts database05:19
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timelessluke-jr: is this curious george?05:19
timelessindeed, it is05:20
trumeetimeless: Hopefuly mikhail will come back to after the vacation. I could then setup the test number for him. it would be best if he could come on irc. But mixing work with hobby isnt for everybody :)05:20
timelessinfobot seen mikhail05:20
infobotmikhail <> was last seen on IRC in channel #htc-linux, 48d 22h 21m 59s ago, saying: 'hello'.05:20
timelesshrm, not necessarily the right mikhail05:21
trumeetimeless: :)05:21
timelesswe're @11min05:21
timelessaudio is still fine05:21
timelessthere's coughing but that's genuine05:21
trumeehey, that is good.05:22
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trumeemaybe the pbx works better at night05:22
timelesscan you use h323 as your audio stack?05:23
timelesshrm, it might have cut out05:23
timelessbut i suspect he moved away from the mic05:23
trumeenot sure, i could stick it in the codecs field and hope it works05:24
timelessi'm pretty sure he's further from the mic right now05:25
* timeless wishes for a bandwidth monitor05:26
timelessms has had one since win 405:26
trumeei have removed h263 from the codec list. So the only codecs allower are g729, ulaw and alaw05:27
trumeeok, i am going off to bed now. goodnight all.05:29
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timelessit's a little choppy now05:31
timelessCPU: 55.1% usr 15.9% sys  0.0% nice 27.1% idle  0.0% io  0.0% irq  1.7% softirq05:32
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luke-jrtimeless: say what? :p05:45
timelessthere was some water garbling near the end05:47
timelessbut that's the wrong problem05:47
timelessso .. codec could be immune05:47
timelessor we could have missed05:48
timelesswe can try again in +12h or so w/ non h32305:48
luke-jrI poured Pepsi...05:48
luke-jrwhilest, I heard a lot of loud noise I thought on your end05:48
luke-jrtimeless: apparently my IPv4 flaked out at some point while we were on the call BTW05:50
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lcukthp, technically, yes, but effectively no.. has latest live library (pushed after video) and also within liqbase-playground is a sub project called invar - which does the full inverse ar stuff05:52
lcukthe mouse is just a thought expiriment ontop of that data05:52
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luke-jrlcuk: what's that? liqbase-based video calling?05:53
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lcukno, the inverse ar stuff I showed - realworld n900 positioning05:54
lcukthe code and projects I used are there :) i cleaned it up a bit more and made the example usable05:54
lcukits an image viewer where the image is actually a tile of 9 n900s in size05:54
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luke-jryeah, I got that05:59
luke-jryou could probably do a focus/blur effect around the edges to make it more realistic06:00
luke-jreg, the N900 is putting it in focus06:00
luke-jror scale the movement, so eg the N900 is magnifying something tiny behind it06:00
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lcukluke-jr, yeah magnification is possible06:01
lcukit was one of the first things i did actually, along with rotation06:01
lcukbut the image viewer i wanted simple reproducability06:01
lcukand it includes its own marker picture :) so if you have 2 n900s you can play with them both06:02
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Gryllida the 'vote here' links -- if you want to have fun reviewing the applications, feel free :) Looks like there are amusingly little voters on.06:11
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SpeedEvilI'm in process of going through the list - I should have it finished in another couple of weeks at the current rate.06:31
SpeedEvil(though that would not of course promote all)06:31
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MARDWAREhi peoples07:31
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LiraNunahey guys07:48
LiraNunayou thought cloudgps is fast?07:48
LiraNunatry this baby07:49
LiraNunathe single tile shown is fetched (and cached) from network, so it's just a matter of showing different texture07:50
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* RST38h wonders if anyone is actually using sharing/social features that appear to be the latest fashion08:56
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timelessham broke :(10:46
TermanaN900timeless, looks like turkey instead tonight10:47
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timelessnah, fish every night10:48
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DOnJUiLiEmthere are not scratchbox-devkit-svn on deb hathor main11:25
DOnJUiLiEmwhat i can do11:25
DOnJUiLiEmoki  have found the .deb but it s not on the repository11:28
DOnJUiLiEmhmmm i dont find it for amd6411:30
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sandstormhello, especially when I connect my N900 to pc on pc suite mode and unplug it, I stop receiving SMS notifications on the screen and as sound and vibration, what might be the solution? thanks in advance.12:21
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JaffaMorning, all13:30
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* marginalMan greets13:36
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marginalMansetting gmail up on an n900, -which smtp settings work?13:39
marginalManget it right to recei13:40
marginalManbut cant get it to send13:40
ham5ask your host13:40
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RST38hheya vdvsx13:41
VDVsxRST38h, hello :)13:41
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alteregoGood moaning folks13:43
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jacekowskimirsal: use imap13:44
jacekowskii didn't said that13:44
mirsaljacekowski, np :)13:44
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Guest52083Ooh, awesome13:55
Guest52083The micro USB port on the phone did get out of it13:55
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h4xordoodeh ?13:55
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Guest52083= i will have to send it to reparation13:56
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h4xordoodhow that happened ? o_O13:57
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Guest52083Dunno, but i know this has happened for others as well.13:59
h4xordoodseriously o_= n900 ?14:00
Guest52083I use my SE P1i atm, need to get used to their keybord for a while14:01
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Guest52083H4xordood, yes, N90014:08
FredrIQThe phone is fully charged (i use it atm), so i can run some type of backup14:08
h4xordoodi need to be cautious then i buyed n900 3 days back o_O14:09
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h4xordoodhope my usb port doesnt gets out of it14:09
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harniranybody else missing /lib/init/upstart-job ?14:15
alteregoharnir: what makes you think it's missing?14:16
harnirbecause after reflash with PR1.2 my entire /lib/init/ directory isn't where it's supposed to be...14:17
alteregoI would have thought that would have obviously been a change in the way things are done rather than things being missing.14:18
harnirso where is it now? and why /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon symlink isn't updated to reflect new location?14:18
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alteregoI dunno, use 'find' ..14:20
harnirI tried it, nothing found14:20
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harniralterego: so, is your avahi-daemon running?14:20
harnirhow did you do that?14:20
alteregoErm ..14:21
alterego_I_ didn't :P14:21
harniranything else besides reflashing PR1.2?14:21
harniralterego: what version do you use, global, US, UK?14:21
alteregoNot as far as I know. Have you tried: ps -A | grep avahi ?14:21
harniralterego: yes, it's not running14:21
harnirdamn, I just reflashed14:22
harniryou sure yours "just worked"?14:22
alteregoWell, I've not fiddled with vahi14:22
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harniralterego: my isn't running, because /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon points to /lib/init/upstart-job, which is missing. if I copy this script from ubuntu and add symink in /etc/rc2.d/, avahi works for me14:23
harniranybody else with that problem?14:24
alteregoMy /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon is not a symlink14:24
harnirhmm, brb14:25
alteregoharnir: have you tried "start avahi-daemon" ?14:25
harniryeah, it works... something fishy going on here14:25
alteregoWhat network interfaces are enabled?>14:26
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harnircurrently wlan014:26
harnirlet me reboot, brb14:27
harnirperhaps it fixed itself somehow, maybe I just need to put avahi-daemon after dbus in startup sequence14:27
alteregoWell, upstart should take care of that ..14:28
harnirI'll check it out14:28
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harnirhuh, ok, after reboot it started automatically, great14:29
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RZHi I need help with pidgin14:32
RZI want to change the language.14:32
keriochange the locale14:33
RZSystem language?14:33
RZCrap... So there is no way to change it manually?14:34
h4xordoodkerio: there is extra support for pidgin14:34
RZYeah I downloaded ti.14:35
h4xordoodRZ: u need spelling checker or u need support of some language that u can type ?14:35
h4xordoodif u need support to type with keypad then do as kerio said14:36
RZI have maemo in English I would like to have Pidgin in another language. I can change it on my PC, but I can't on N90014:37
RZFor the sake of argument I want it in Russian14:38
keriothere's russian for the n90014:38
h4xordoodha i also use Russian cause i know Russian14:39
RZI know OK let's say Slovenian.14:39
RZThere is no support for Maemo in Slovenian but is for Pidgin.14:39
kerioRZ: settings menu?14:39
kerioor "LANG=sl pidgin"14:40
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RZNope still in English. LANG=sl pidgin just opens it.14:43
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RZIf I change system language Pidgin changes accordingly14:46
harnirany way to have USSD codes separate from other contacts?14:46
keriotimeless: maybe you care somehow - given your part in the coding of microB: i can't use Transmission's web interface to upload torrents :|14:48
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RZHow can one see who is online on Skype?14:56
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kerioaddress book?15:00
crashanddieRZ: go to your contact list. Those who have a green icon are online15:00
kerioor however it's called15:00
keriosort by state15:00
infobotkerio meant: sort by status15:00
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* kerio can't type today15:00
RZFound it"15:01
RZThank you.15:01
crashanddiekerio: ah, one of those days, eh?15:04
keriowhat "those days"?15:05
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DocScrutinizer(*cough*) mooo15:27
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DrGrovGood day15:53
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DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Can you bash in my head so I can remember the adapter?15:56
DocScrutinizerIt doesn't seem to really annoy you with it's existence in your house. I'm confident before you throw it to the garbage bin you'll remember me and place it in an envelope and send15:57
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: How can you be so confident that I do remember what I should do with it once that day is coming? :)15:59
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DrGrovDocScrutinizer: I am just scared that it is too old once I decide to send it, throw it :(15:59
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DocScrutinizermaybe you better keep it? you might need it for in-the-wil-hotswapping as described here
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DrGrovI will read that post and see what you are talking about.16:02
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keriohmm... is there a way to run a full hardware check?16:06
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kerioi'd like to know if the lack of red light on my n900 is because of a problem in the software side or in the hardware side16:06
DocScrutinizerI *might* bother to check for the correct sequence of I2C-cmds to power on red LED the hard way, if you really need that16:09
kerioDocScrutinizer: regardless of kernel/driver/software status?16:09
DocScrutinizerkernel needs I2C interface exported to /sys, sw needs to be killed/stopped if it holds exclusive locks to that interface16:10
DocScrutinizeryou'd get to know if any precondition isn't met16:11
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kerioif you can do that without too much hassle...16:11
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keriothe red led is apparently useless, after all16:11
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DocScrutinizerfor sure is16:12
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DocScrutinizerjust as useless as the mandatory shutter click sounds are16:12
keriothey can disabled by switching to Silent16:12
Macerwant to make sure the girl doesnt think you are filming?16:13
DocScrutinizerit's regulations foo, for some weird countries16:14
kerios/the girl/your mom/16:14
DocScrutinizerwiki lightning fast for me this very moment... :-o16:16
keriolet's DDoS it!16:16
MacerDocScrutinizer: maybe becasue 70% of the maemo community is seeing whats happening on the meego wiki :)16:18
Maceris there an n900 port of diablo?16:19
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kerioso... A5/1 was cracked using rainbow tables, on a not-that-powerful machine16:20
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DrGrovDocScrutinizer: It seems like it is better for your purposes the adapter :)16:20
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kerioDrGrov: the multi-charger adapter provided with the n900?16:21
keriodoes that allow for fastcharge?16:21
DrGrovkerio: I have yes that charger adapter still.16:21
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Macerkerio: does that mean i can clone my sim faster now?16:23
kerionah, but you can listen to your neighbor's calls16:24
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Macerwell. it lasted like 8 years before it was cracked16:25
Macerbut you would think once it was they would roll out something stronger16:25
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DrGrovkerio: listen to neighbour's calls? do tell me more16:25
Macerthere is always skype over 3G :)16:26
DrGrovkerio: what special equipment do you need?16:26
Macerwhat encryption does skype use?16:26
MacerThe Germans said it should be, as they shared a long border with the Warsaw Pact; but the other countries didn't feel this way, and the algorithm as now fielded is a French design."16:26
Macerno wonder it sucks16:27
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DocScrutinizerwho gives a shit about A5/1 anyway?16:28
DocScrutinizera fool he who's thinking *any* electronic conversation is private16:29
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alteregoOh this is weird ..16:29
SpeedEvil :)16:29
alteregoGL isn't drawing it's background.16:30
DocScrutinizerlet me put it that way: the dude shouting at his wive via cellphone in the subway, and driving me crazy, do you think he's concerned about encryption? :-P16:30
RZI installed Scumm VM and flight of the amazon queen to test it. Now I can't start the game I cant even find it.16:32
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alteregoAh, it's the painter ..16:33
DocScrutinizerI bet 90% of users of GSM/DECT/whatever think they should got to their cellar to do a call they don't want to be tapped, and the rest would be utterly surprised if you tell them it's actually been NOT so easy to wiretap GSM with A5/116:34
DocScrutinizerbtw for authorities with imsi catcher it's *always* been utterly easy to eavesdrop a call16:35
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Macerwell.. someone can always write an app for enciphered voice and hand deliver the keys16:37
DocScrutinizerand since dunno ~10 years all exchanges have mandatory surveillance interfaces, so you don't care about A5/1 and IMSI catchers at all any more16:37
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Maceror stash them in the red bag of cocaine16:37
DocScrutinizeror use twinklephone with ZRTP16:38
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MacerDocScrutinizer: i think more people are worried about someone else catching the phone call conversation to the dr about their herpes situation16:38
DocScrutinizerMacer: go twinkle.com16:38
Maceraddress not found16:39
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DrGrovSo, how does the eavesdropping work in practice?16:40
Macerim surprised isnt taken16:40
* Macer registers16:40
DocScrutinizerI think it is16:40
sandstormhello, especially when I connect my N900 to pc on pc suite mode and unplug it, I stop receiving SMS notifications on the screen and as sound and vibration, what might be the solution? thanks in advance16:41
DocScrutinizeranyway, twinklephone is a nice mature SIP softphone, that supports ZRTP encryption natively16:41
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Macerskype uses rc416:42
DocScrutinizerZRTP is considered secure and MITM-safe16:42
Macerwhy cant they just use aes256?16:43
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DocScrutinizertoo heavy16:43
Macerin this day and age?16:44
SpeedEvilRemember - a lot of decisions about protocols were made back when the z80 wasn't a complete joke.16:44
Macerwhats a few more bits? :)16:44
SpeedEviland AES wasn't even invented for that matter16:44
DocScrutinizernot even mail encryption uses aes, they just crypt a symmetric key by aes16:44
Macerz80... whoa16:44
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SpeedEvilWEll - not _quite_ that far16:44
SpeedEvilAES is cheap16:44
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SpeedEvilthe phone can do it >5M/s IIRC16:45
Macerthat is quite a bit of bandwidth16:45
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SpeedEvilBut in relatively recent memory, people were trying to skimp on crypto, as DES was expensive in terms of gate area and/or clocks.16:45
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DocScrutinizeryeah but what to do with that bandwidth then, when your CPU is maxed out and can't*process* the decrypted data :-P16:46
SpeedEvil - complete win.16:46
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: save it to disk.16:46
Macerrc4 is circa 1987 as well16:46
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: however - 10% of that is a decent video stream16:46
Maceris all encryption from the cold war? :)16:46
SpeedEvilAES is 1998?16:47
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: what are the benefits of realtime decrypting a stream that's stored??16:47
Maceris it?16:47
SpeedEvilTo stop the nasty user copying it.16:47
SpeedEvilOr more sanely - to stop someone who steals the device getting it16:47
DocScrutinizer[2010-07-25 15:46:29] <SpeedEvil> DocScrutinizer: save it to disk.16:48
DocScrutinizerreceive - decrypt realtme - store : nonsense16:48
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MacerSpeedEvil: hahahaha16:49
DocScrutinizerreceive - store crypted version - decrypt whenever you got spare CPU : better way16:49
Macerfunny article16:49
SpeedEvilrecieve - decrypt from transport encryption - encrypt to storage encryption16:49
Maceror just make a better cpu that can do it real time ;)16:49
SpeedEvilI can't decide which sign I like most. 'magnets...' or 'Is this thing on'16:50
* DocScrutinizer sends Macer back to CS primary16:50
MacerGod hates jedi16:50
SpeedEvilLuke always seemed a bit iffy to me.16:50
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DrGrovIs there any easy way how to copy Contacts which are even two numbers for the same contact into the SIM card and have the contacts separated? Ex. Home 12345 and Home 4555667 would be as 2 x Home entries on the SIM card.16:52
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DrGrovThinking about getting a 2nd phone, the Nokia C5 but I need all my Contacts...16:53
DrGrovNot 100% sure I have the exactly same entries on the SIM card as in the N900 Contacts...16:53
MacerSpeedEvil: god hates fred phelps16:53
MacerDrGrov: sync it to skype16:54
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DrGrovMacer: I can not copy the Contacts back to the SIM card without problems?16:55
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Macernever tried it tbh16:56
Maceri want a cloned sim16:56
Macerbastards at tmob wont do it16:57
DrGrovOkay, I thought of getting my old Samsung trustworthy phone as my 2nd phone until I go and buy the Nokia C516:57
Maceri wouldnt mind a galaxy s16:58
Macerthing looks pretty nice16:58
trumeeDocScrutinizer: is it safe to have a sip conversation on an untrusted wifi network?16:58
lcuktrumee, doing anything on an untrusted network is ummm untrusted16:58
trumeeDocScrutinizer: I know the call isnt encrypted but i am more worried about authentication16:59
DrGrovMy fiancee is thinking about that Galaxy S16:59
DocScrutinizerdepends on your definition of "safe", quite obviously. No physical harm reported yet16:59
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DrGrovAh, why did I not think about this before?16:59
trumeeI dont want some random guy getting hold of my sip username/password.16:59
DrGrovI go and buy a SIM card duplicator and use my old SIM card and copy over and get the shit done16:59
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DocScrutinizertrumee: username is spread al over the internets, just so much you can do about for SIP. Password is *NEVER* given out, it's a challenge/response authentication17:01
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trumeeDocScrutinizer:ok, then i will consider it safe.17:01
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DocScrutinizerallegedly the challenge/response is not THAT safe, means with brute force you could crack the password, from maybe 100 challenge/response dialogs17:02
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DocScrutinizermuch like WPA(2)17:02
user_if qtranslate is based on the google app, then why does the google app have so many more translations?17:03
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DocScrutinizerif you want additional security, find a SIP provider that offers SIPS17:03
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DocScrutinizerthe SIP conversation is over SSL there, so really unlikely somebody will crack both the SSL *and* the SIP challenge/response17:04
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: but SSL-SIP isnt supported bu N900?17:05
trumeeDocScrutinizer: ah, TLS is indeed supported.17:05
DocScrutinizernope, you bet it isn't17:05
DocScrutinizermissed that17:06
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trumeebut where do i put the certificate?17:06
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trumeeTLS was supported in N95 as well although i never used it.17:06
trumeeGood thing is freeswitch has tls support which * doesnt out of the box17:06
DocScrutinizeranyway the RTP voice data stream is never encoded and free to decode for everybody eavesdropping somewhere in the transmission chain, unless you use meassures like ZRTP17:07
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trumeeZRTP isnt support on N900 :(17:07
DocScrutinizeryou could make it happen with local ZRTP proxy17:08
DocScrutinizerworks with almost every SIP softphone17:09
trumeenot sure whether that is possible with N90017:09
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slonopotamustrumee: i just uploaded sflphone yesterday (and it's supposed to support zrtp) but smth is either broken or i can't setup it properly :)17:09
trumeei mean whether N900 has code for zrtp proxy17:09
slonopotamussip is some dark voodoo17:09
DocScrutinizerthe code is foss17:10
trumeeslonopotamus: ah! i need that application17:10
trumeeslonopotamus: it will be usefull to test sip with that17:10
slonopotamustrumee: well, if you manage to make it call, call me :)17:10
trumeeslonopotamus: where is it?17:10
DocScrutinizersavoir fair linux? hmm, was nice but didn't work foir me when I tested17:10
slonopotamustrumee: extras-devel17:11
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: that one, yep17:11
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trumeeslonopotamus: ok. will look into it17:11
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: claims to have zrtp17:11
DocScrutinizerwell it's French ;-P17:11
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DocScrutinizerprobably ZRTP is outlawed in France17:11
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: code doesn't smell17:12
slonopotamuswell, unless it comes from MS17:12
DocScrutinizerexcept if it's windows code17:12
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* DocScrutinizer highfives slonopotamus17:12
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Can you find a good Blackberry Bold 9000 or 9700 which is reliable?17:13
DrGrovOnline store is a good choice17:13
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DocScrutinizerDrGrov: I never tried, so dunno17:14
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: ok, no problem :)17:14
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DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Do you think 150 € for a OpenMoko Neo Freerunner is too much? It is perhaps been used for 1 - 1,5 years17:27
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DocScrutinizertoo much I guess17:28
DocScrutinizerafaik they are ~220 new now17:29
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Perhaps if I could get it down to 10017:29
DocScrutinizersounds reasonable17:29
DocScrutinizermake sure it has buzzfix17:29
DocScrutinizeror A7 version17:30
DrGrovPerhaps I would give that guy a call and check if he is interested in selling it17:30
trumeeDocScrutinizer: i was able to capture usb traffic from the desktop using tcpdump -lni usb0 -w sip.pcap, when i open it in wireshark it has lot of USB URB17:30
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trumeenothing else except USB URB packets.17:31
DocScrutinizertrumee: sorry no idea about USB networking17:31
trumeeDocScrutinizer: np17:31
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Is it worth the effort to get the Neo Freerunner?17:32
trumeei was hoping to salvage some RTP streams but no luck17:32
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: I mean, can I enjoy it at all?17:32
DocScrutinizerit's a nice machine for linux hackers17:32
DocScrutinizeryou probably don't want it for an alternative to a real phone17:32
DrGrovThat is what I was thinking17:32
DrGrovPerhaps not the best phone capability :)17:33
DrGrovBut it could be really cool to have one for other purposes17:33
DocScrutinizeryou *can* use as daily phone, if you're not reluctant to write your own scripts to check your special needs :-P17:33
SpeedEvilOr if you pick a golden firmware version17:34
DocScrutinizerprobably still GOLDEN17:34
DrGrovSo I can get it working well?17:34
DocScrutinizerit's never working exactly "well"17:35
DrGrovThe seller does not seem to be aware of these things since the price is relatively low17:35
DrGrovUnfortunately I will not buy it unless I get the price down to 80 or 90 €. maximum 100 €17:35
DocScrutinizerask if it got buzzfix rework, or which board revision (A7 has buzzfix by fab)17:36
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sandstormunder which folder or file do IM chats are logged?17:36
DocScrutinizerDrGrov: /join #openmoko17:36
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: So if I get that confirmed it is a lot better?17:36
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DrGrovDocScrutinizer: thanks, joining in17:37
h4xordoodheya :)17:38
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DrGrovDocScrutinizer: I am calling now to see what he is saying. I ask about the buzzfix and A717:39
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DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Damn it, it did not have buzzfix or A717:51
DocScrutinizerDrGrov: /join #openmoko17:51
DocScrutinizerquite OT here, and threre you get much better response17:52
DrGrovSorry about that, I was in the wrong tab17:52
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DrGrovDamn it is such a shame to keep reading users posts on forums who clearly do not know how to use the N900 and keep installing things they do not understand18:26
DrGrovFunny as always18:26
nid0doing things they dont understand, getting it wrong, and blaming everything but themselves is the definition of "users"18:29
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*** type_t has quit IRC19:07 fremantle-1.2 doesnt seem to be workin :(19:10
h4xordoodif i do apt-get update it says failed repository19:10
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SpeedEvilRST38h: Woo - my bit on e-book readers about fbreader got read out. - 20:1519:24
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PhonicUKhey all19:28
PhonicUKwhat's the state of PSX emulation like for Maemo these days?19:28
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MacerPhonicUK: the same as the state of maemo19:32
PhonicUKslow and unreliable?19:32
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Macerundone and underdeveloped19:39
Macerbut close ;)19:40
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Izzehany TMO mods on?19:42
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PhonicUKLol I was wondering where all my storage space on my N900 was going19:43
PhonicUK17.5GB of video19:43
MohammadAG51Izzeh, chem|st, not sure if he's idling or not though19:43
Izzehsome noobs spamming games section with warez =/19:43
MohammadAG51report the post19:44
Izzehhe's at 4 threads and new one every 30 seconds19:44
MohammadAG51probably a spambot19:45
Izzeh5 threads =x lol19:45
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MohammadAG51i hate how the mods are mostly from one time zone19:47
MohammadAG51the US19:47
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alteregoMaybe I should be a mod muahahahha!19:48
Izzehhe's up to 6.. and now the noobs are posting asking how to install on N900 <.<19:48
MohammadAG51alterego, i was rejected, don't bother19:49
alteregoI'm cooler than you19:49
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MohammadAG51alterego, fsck off :P19:55
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SpeedEvil - on emulators. (worksafe) (not a worksafe site though a worksafe pic)20:02
GAN900MohammadAG51, clearly alterego has the advantage of having a cooler tag.20:02
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alteregodamn git clone is taking forever.20:03
MohammadAG51GAN900, damn, need to get a better nick :P20:07
MacerSpeedEvil: there was zelda cereal?20:08
Macerwow :)20:09
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kerioDocScrutinizer: re:electronic transmission - i actually expect most of my telecommunications to be reasonably secure20:11
PhonicUKwow, ive got PCSX2 running at full speed on my machine :\20:11
PhonicUKits funny how massive the performance gap is between the PSX and PS220:11
keriothink about the gap between ps2 and ps320:11
kerioalso the massive shift in paradigm20:12
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PhonicUKits taking a 3.2GHz quad core to emulate a PS2 at full speed :\20:12
kerioPhonicUK: well, for reliable emulation20:12
PhonicUKIsn't there a NEO GEO emu that works on the N900?20:13
PhonicUKI wanna play the metal slug series20:13
PhonicUKbut MAME is a bit slow20:13
keriomame is reliable20:13
PhonicUKbut slow :P20:13
kerionot its primary aim20:14
PhonicUKI suppose "accurate" would be more descriptive of its goal20:14
Izzehwasn't there metal slug on snes?20:15
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keriothe mamedev have a electronics fetish20:16
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userhey guys, why cant qtranslate translate nearly  as well as the google service it is supposedly  based on?20:37
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userhey guys, why cant qtranslate translate nearly  as well as the google service it is supposedly  based on?20:37
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mobile-telephonesorry got disconnected20:39
mobile-telephonewhats the deal with qtranslate?20:39
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slonopotamusmobile-telephone: you weren't talking, why you're sorry then?20:40
h4xordood         my flash on n900 doesnt seem to be working imean adobe flashplayer20:41
h4xordoodi went to speedtest.net20:41
h4xordoodbut it doesnt play flash :\20:41
h4xordoodany suggestions ?20:41
SpeedEvilwget something from kernel.org20:41
h4xordoodand fermatile repo also giving error20:42
h4xordoodsaying 404 error not found when i do apt-get update20:42
RST38hyou are unlucky20:42 fermantile 1.2 not found :\20:42
RST38hyour fermantle is bad20:43
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RST38hfermatile, sorry20:43
RST38hof course it is fermatile20:43
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mobile-telephonewell qtranslate cant do most of what google translate does... and it is supposedly based onit20:44
AlMehdihave you tried gTranslate?20:44
SpeedEvilWho made facebrick?
h4xordoodcan some one tell me place from where i can install repositories so they get corrected20:45
h4xordoodi know google is always there20:46
h4xordoodbut i didnt  found it to be working for me20:46
h4xordoodso i am asking20:46
h4xordoodbeccause i found one place where all repo were there20:47
h4xordoodand i installed20:47
h4xordoodbut again same error20:47
RST38hthird search result from the top20:47
h4xordoodi know this20:48
slonopotamush4xordood: "they get corrected" - ?20:49
slonopotamush4xordood: how you got them incorrect?20:49
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AlMehdih4xordood: Checked your spelling?20:50
h4xordoodslonopotamus: i didnt do anything when i buyed n900 that very day i ran apt-get update20:50
* slonopotamus 11 of 253... building kde. and ftw.20:50
RST38hslono: on Maemo5? =)20:51
h4xordoodbut it gave me error about some gpg key not found and 404 fermantle repo20:51
h4xordoodslonopotamus: tell me how u running kde on it ?20:51
RST38hyou can't type, can't spell, and can't search20:51
RST38honce you figure out these three simple tasks, you will be able to install.20:51
h4xordoodRST38h: if u see u also typed wrong20:51
AlMehdi404 is for when it can't find what you are looking for... if you typed something wron.. it will give you 40420:52
h4xordoodits fermantle not what you wrote20:52
h4xordoodinstead of being sarcastic and going crazy i recommend lets be productive20:52
slonopotamusRST38h: of course not20:53
AlMehdialso check so you have all in small letters20:53
slonopotamush4xordood: so, you ran apt-get update and?20:54
slonopotamusah, skipped your msg20:55
slonopotamush4xordood: so check your repo urls against published on r.m.o.20:55
slonopotamush4xordood: or show us your /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list20:56
h4xordoodok wait i just paste bin20:58
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slonopotamush4xordood: mine (pr1.2 installed):
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luke-jrslonopotamus: you're welcome to my binpkgs :P21:02
slonopotamusluke-jr: url?21:02
luke-jrthere's a GCC 4.4 kernel in another similar dir too21:03
luke-jrand overlay.xml up 2 levels21:03
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* slonopotamus wonders why some kde programs use boost. aint qt/kdelibs powerful enough?21:05
RST38hslono: You do not understand...21:05
opdf2is there a video sharing service that lets me upload mp4 from my n900, with no conversion?21:06
RST38hslono: Boost...It is the future...It is what real C++ programmers use...21:06
* RST38h moos evilly21:06
RST38hslono: Even more hardcore than STL =)21:07
slonopotamush4xordood: second line in your paste looks suspicious21:07
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slonopotamush4xordood: replace it with mine (s/004/mr0/)21:08
luke-jrRST38h: KDE is supposed to be Qt, not C++21:08
luke-jrbut yeah, Boost is pretty much the next version of C++21:08
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luke-jr[119469.721374] wlan0: roaming signal from driver, sending LOWSIGNAL21:10
luke-jr[119471.151977] wlan0: roaming signal from driver, sending HIGHSIGNAL21:10
luke-jrwhat does that mean?21:10
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h4xordoodslonopotamus: thnx i edited my repo same like yours and now it wroks :)21:14
h4xordoodi knew there was some problem in repo :)21:14
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crashanddie_evening, nunchucks21:40
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crashanddie_Gizmokid2005, are you 5 years old?21:41
Gizmokid2005crashanddie_: no.21:41
crashanddie_actually, it would be an interesting test21:42
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crashanddie_show goatse and 2g1c to a 5 year old, then see if he becomes a mass murdering bastard21:43
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crashanddie_and the pain olympics, too21:43
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Jaffacrashanddie_: You're never coming near my kids again...21:44
phellarvHmmm - Is there a doc on the events which I can hook on to in /etc/event.d/ ?21:44
crashanddie_I "came" near your kids before?21:44
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RST38hYou have kids?21:45
crashanddie_didn't think I'd forget that21:45
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phellarvcrashanddie_: 2 words - Restraining Order.21:45
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crashanddie_we're in europe mate, no such thing as a restraining order21:46
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Stskeepscrashanddie_: .dk has restraining orders :P21:48
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Duckbootcrashanddie_: Well - I think in several European Countries there is.21:48
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Stskeeps(specifically danish criminal code paragraph 265)21:48
Duckbootcrashanddie_: Even the EU has tried to legislate Europe-wide Restraining orders.21:49
RST38hpoland hasn even got forced castration of child molestaters21:49
RST38hmolesters, sorry21:49
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DuckbootRST38h: Know as "the Clean Cut"?21:50
trumeeluke-jr: how was the call yesterday?21:50
RST38hprobably chemical nowadays21:50
DuckbootRST38h: Mmm - ofc.21:50 also has restraining orders21:50 too (IIRC)21:51
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crashanddie_well, with all the shit I've pulled, I've never had a restraining order, I can only assume the only places they are used are television studios21:52
Stskeepscrashanddie_: most people don't know their own country's criminal code obviously ;)21:53
Duckbootcrashanddie_: Screenshot or it didn't happen!21:53
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crashanddie_Stskeeps, I don't even know the country I currently live in21:54
Stskeepscrashanddie_: me neither21:54
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nid0restraining orders exist and are used in the uk too, asbo's are more common though21:58
luke-jrtrumee: mostly worked22:01
luke-jrtrumee: there were a couple of odd glitches, but my dmesg had some wifi warnings later..22:01
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trumeeluke-jr: it has been better since yesterday. Today i had 30 minutes call on sip, at about 15 minutes had water garbling. Had to put the call on hold for a sec and then resume.22:04
trumeeluke-jr: but with problems like these the faith in the phone is all lost :(22:04
trumeeluke-jr: it is very unpredictable22:05
luke-jrtrumee: good luck troubleshooting it :/22:05
luke-jrI still suspect some kind of cpufreq issue22:05
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trumeecpu-0   no or unknown cpufreq driver is active on this CPU22:06
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luke-jrwhat CPU is it?22:06
trumeeCPU 1 no or unknown cpufreq driver is active on this CPU22:06
trumeeAMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+22:06
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luke-jrwhile true; do true; done & renice 20 -p $!22:07
luke-jrdo that and test22:07
trumeewill it bring the server down?22:07
sig^will the renice ever be reached?22:07
trumee15786: old priority 0, new priority 1922:07
luke-jrtrumee: no, just keep teh CPU busy22:07
trumeeok, bash has gone to 96 % now22:08
luke-jrbut ti has lowest priority22:08
trumeeso, what next?22:08
luke-jrtry a call22:08
trumeeok, i did an echo test. asterisk is at 1%22:09
luke-jrjust see if the problem continues with that running22:10
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DocScrutinizer[2010-07-25 19:52:29] <h4xordood> its fermantle not what you wrote  ---  umm, err  fremantle maybe?22:15
shamusdid ti ever release the drivers for opengl on the n800 or is that just a long dead pipe dream?22:15
DocScrutinizertrumee: still hammering on your SIP?22:17
trumeeDocScrutinizer: yup22:17
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DocScrutinizer(<luke-jr> what does that mean?) no idea, but see that all over the dmesg here as well22:19
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: ah, anything noticable usually happen when it does?22:20
DocScrutinizernope, not at all22:20
luke-jrshamus: neither N8x0 nor N900 support full OpenGL, just the ES subset22:20
luke-jrshamus: AFAIK someoen got some working proof-of-concepts22:20
luke-jrbut actually putting it into practice... no22:20
luke-jrI made ebuilds for Gentoo for the kernel-level stuff tho22:21
DocScrutinizerask Stskeeps22:21
luke-jrAFAIK it's not any technical problems at this point, just more of "where to go from here"22:21
DocScrutinizerthink he reported some tests with results on first drivers - not sure though if that's really been openGL-ES or some low level stuff, but I remember him wondering if he fried his N810 video hardware22:23
DocScrutinizerwhich turned out wasn't the case22:24
DocScrutinizereither in this chan, or #meego-arm22:24
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luke-jranyone know how to make TTF files?22:24
DocScrutinizermv bla bla.TTF22:25
luke-jrideally, on Maemo ;)22:26
luke-jrso I can hand-draw the font22:26
DocScrutinizerTTF redmond though afaik22:26
luke-jrTTF is a cross-platform standard22:27
luke-jroriginated with Apple22:27
DocScrutinizerI remember some 10 years ago linux had to import ttf from windows partition22:28
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DocScrutinizermaybe due to the fact that cause of missing decent eeditors there were no free ttf available22:29
ShadowJKAlso there are still no decent renderers that can render vector fonts acceptably22:32
ShadowJKat small sizes22:32
ShadowJKnot an issue on Nxx0 of course, with the massive DPI22:32
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jacekowskiluke-jr: i suppose it wouldn't be too hard to hack mesa into emulating full opengl22:35
jacekowskiluke-jr: while using as much of opengles as possible22:35
jacekowskibut i'm not sure about performance of that sort of thing22:35
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: nonsense. maybe you *could* import TTF fonts from Windows, but you could always just not use Microsoft fonts22:51
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: I don't use Microsoft fonts because they're non-free22:51
luke-jrShadowJK: FreeType works fine, and even supports hinting by default since those patents expired22:52
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: yes, that's what I meant. Wasn't to suppose you *needed* to do that22:54
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: thought it's bvious you can run a linux without any TTF installed22:55
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: and there are free TTF fonts too22:56
DocScrutinizeryep, now there are. Not 10 years ago though. That's what I said22:57
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DocScrutinizerwell, at least no decent ones22:58
luke-jrdecent is subjective22:58
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luke-jrthere was no *hinting support* in binary distros back then22:59
luke-jrbecause that feature was patented22:59
luke-jrthat might be what you really mean22:59
luke-jrbut FreeType has had the code for a while, just disabled in patent-relevant places22:59
luke-jrso people could rebuild it with hinting enabled22:59
luke-jrand fonts looked a lot better22:59
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DocScrutinizerprolly you're right23:01
DocScrutinizeralso I tend to forget exact dates of events and facts from >10 years into the past. Maybe it was 15 years ago, maybe 20, maybe a mix of all23:03
mrmokuDocScrutinizer: well... less than 20... I remember that too :P23:04
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luke-jrwas it before or after Myst?23:07
DocScrutinizer~wtf myst23:07
luke-jror maybe you can date it by Windows versions23:07
infobotGee...  I don't know what myst means...23:07
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: seriously?23:07
luke-jryou don't know Myst?23:07
DocScrutinizerno idea23:07
luke-jrMyst was the killer app for the CD-ROM drive23:08
mrmokuheh... remembering myst too23:08
luke-jrnobody had CD-ROM drives until Myst was released XD23:08
DocScrutinizerI had no CD drive until ~200023:08
DocScrutinizeror wait, 98?23:09
luke-jrMyst took CD-ROM drives from "early adopter" to "general audience" :p23:09
DocScrutinizeron *nix?23:09
* nextime never played to myst23:10
luke-jrcirca 1993 IIRC23:10
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: on Windows23:10
luke-jrMac was 1991?23:10
luke-jrMac was 1993 too23:10
luke-jrthey should GPL realMyst or something <.<23:11
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DOnJUiLiEmhello does it possible to have xterm application when i use maemo developpement suite and that i am connected on it with xephyr23:12
DOnJUiLiEmbecause i can t install xterm23:13
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shamuswould be nice to be avble to play myst on a tablit but dosbox is way to slugish to handle windows and myst on windows23:16
luke-jrshamus: WINE23:17
luke-jrthe problem would be lack of mouseover23:17
luke-jrthe cursors are kinda important in Myst23:17
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shamusand there is no way in heck you could get uru up and runign on a tablit23:18
yeplaThe following packages have unmet dependencies:23:18
yepla  xterm: Depends: xbitmaps but it is not installable23:18
yeplaE: Broken packages23:18
luke-jrhonestly, I could never beat Myst...23:18
luke-jrnot properly anyhow23:18
luke-jrbut it has nice music :D23:18
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DOnJUiLiEmsomeone know how i can have xterm in my develop environment23:19
luke-jrDOnJUiLiEm: sorry, I do all my development natively23:20
DOnJUiLiEmok and do u know the application to have the phone ?23:20
DOnJUiLiEmi mean the sip phone23:20
shamusmight be nice is was ever finished23:20
luke-jrDOnJUiLiEm: it's called Phone23:22
luke-jrshamus: I'm not a big fan of the old-style Myst UI23:22
luke-jrshamus: I prefer the realMyst interactive world23:22
shamusreal myst would be sweet23:23
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DOnJUiLiEmE: Couldn't find package phone23:24
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keriomyst is a bad graphical adventure23:48
keriopretty much anything but monkey island 1/2 is23:49
keriomi3 is passable23:49
kerioand by passable i mean fucking awesome ofc23:49
thunderfestoh come on myst and riven were scores of fun bad in the day23:49
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* shamus just tryed telescope on his n800 and it is sweet23:52
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