IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-07-22

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luke-jrI think I broke my cellmo00:35
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kerioluke-jr: that's a pretty big "uhoh"00:39
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:44
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smharis there a way -yet- to create custom groups for contacts?00:45
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teilzeitstudentsmhar, "My Contacts" allows to group contacts... but has a fixed set of groups. Guess thats not what you mean?00:47
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smharcurrently I can only see 3 groups, ovi, skype, and the general from the sim card00:49
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teilzeitstudentthose are the ones created by the default contact manager... I was talking about an alternative for it. It creates 5 groups (like.. family, friends, vip, etc).00:50
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teilzeitstudentlemme look for a link..00:50
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smharwill check that. thanks teilzeitstudent00:53
teilzeitstudentit also allows for custom ringtones for each group. Though I just noticed an alternative for that in devel00:54
teilzeitstudentSo anyway... is there a way to get notifications if there is a new package in a repo? The RSS feed on the website includes updated packages as well00:56
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luke-jrwho wants to play guinea pig?00:59
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: DocScrutinizer alterego00:59
lcukluke-jr, didnt you just say something about breaking your cellmo01:00
lcukand now you want us to test code you wrote :P01:00
luke-jrlcuk: reboot fixed it :)01:00
luke-jrI also added some theoretical cleanup to it01:00
luke-jrhaven't had the problem since01:00
luke-jrand I've run it at least 10 times in progress of making it01:01
luke-jrworst case, tho, reboot01:01
luke-jractually, worst case who knows01:01
luke-jrbut I onyl had to reboot01:01
luke-jrI recommend not trying to run it while Maemo is usign GPS :)01:01
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lcukwhat does it do01:02
luke-jrit basically dumps all the GPS info that location-daemon normally gives you01:02
luke-jrto stdout01:02
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: what's that do?01:04
luke-jr[17:02:23] <luke-jr> it basically dumps all the GPS info that location-daemon normally gives you to stdout01:05
luke-jrexcept it talks directly to cellmo01:05
SpeedEvilluke-jr: What do I need to do01:05
luke-jrcompile & run\01:05
SpeedEvilIn file included from gps.c:9:01:07
SpeedEvil/usr/include/linux/phonet.h:50: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before ‘__u8’01:07
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jacekowskihow are you communicating with cellmo?01:08
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SpeedEvilI should probably not do this stuff when very tired, I'm gonna look stupid.01:08
luke-jrjacekowski: socket, bind01:09
luke-jrrecv, sendto01:09
luke-jrSpeedEvil: binary at
luke-jrjacekowski: no dependencies other than Linux and C :)01:10
luke-jrjacekowski: (you could have read the code... :P)01:10
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jacekowskii don't see a link in my irc window01:11
jacekowskiand it's too late for me to bother to read backlog01:11
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jacekowskifound it01:12
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: I tried compiling it with gcc on device that's worked for kernel, openssl, ... anyway01:12
SpeedEvilRead 20 bytes01:12
SpeedEvilDate: 0000-00-0001:12
SpeedEvilrepeatedly, after startup with no gps signal01:12
SpeedEvildo I need to start an app that uses GPS?01:12
luke-jrjust wait01:13
luke-jrGPS needs to get a fix01:13
SpeedEvilI also need to get out of bed.01:13
SpeedEviloh the huge manatee.01:13
SpeedEvilRead 56 bytes01:14
SpeedEvilDate: 0768-00-0001:14
SpeedEvilTime: 03:02:00.001 (accuracy: 0)01:14
SpeedEvilLatitude : 0.03300201:14
SpeedEvilLongitude: 0.00549301:14
SpeedEvileph: 540cm01:14
SpeedEvilAltitude: 0? (accurate to 0.000000?)01:14
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SpeedEvilI would have expected a lock in the location it's in by now01:16
luke-jrjaem: wanna be guinea pig?01:16
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: how's the sky?01:16
jaemluke-jr: If by "me", you mean my N810, sure.  If you mean my N900, maybe.  If you mean *me*, no. :P01:16
SpeedEvilluke-jr: rainy and dark01:16
luke-jrjaem: N900 :)01:16
jaemluke-jr: let me check my weather widget.01:16
jacekowskii would check it as well01:16
SpeedEvilAbout 50% visible.01:16
jacekowskibut i'm to lazy to move01:17
luke-jrappend .c if you want source01:17
luke-jrbe sure Maemo isn't using the GPS, then run that :P01:17
jaemluke-jr: I was kidding, although admittedly the phone was closer than the (open) door to The Outside01:17
luke-jrjaem: kidding? -.-01:18
jaemluke-jr: sure, I'll check it shortly01:18
SpeedEvilok luke-jr. I have started gps-recorder-widget01:19
SpeedEvilAnd it has got lock, and I now get sane results01:19
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jacekowskihow does agps work?01:22
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jacekowskii mean, do you have to push some data to gps using that phonet socket01:22
jacekowskior we don't know yet?01:22
alteregojacekowski: was about to ask the same thing ...01:23
SpeedEvilIt would be awesome to find that out01:23
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BCMMis there a way to clear the cached images that show when an application is starting?01:23
alteregojacekowski: I presume so as agps data can come from wifi01:23
jaemluke-jr: I took a brief glance at the source, but what is this supposed to do, aside from print GPS info to the console?  e.g. what is its purpose01:23
SpeedEviljaem: it talks to the 'raw' GPS hardware01:23
jaemBCMM: yes, there's a .dotfolder in /home/user somewheres01:23
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SpeedEvilwhich isn't really very raw01:23
BCMMthe app manager shows the previous theme for a few seconds01:23
luke-jrSpeedEvil: like I said, you need to be sure Maemo is *not* using GPS01:23
jaemSpeedEvil: Right, I read about that a bit.01:23
alteregojaem: it's standalone, it doesn't use lib location talks directly to the cellmo01:23
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luke-jrjacekowski: I didn't do any AGPS01:23
jacekowskithing is01:24
jaemalterego: I figured.  Why, though?01:24
jacekowskithat location-daemon01:24
jacekowskidoesn't have any agps related code01:24
alteregojaem: to get around the closed source driver obviously.01:24
jacekowskiso it has to be somewhere else01:24
jaemalterego: I forgot that one was closed.01:24
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: It did not get a lock until I started gpx-recorder-widget01:24
jaemOkay, luke-jr, what do you want me to do?  Do you need a log pastebin'd back?01:24
luke-jrSpeedEvil: my console app started working when you did??01:24
luke-jrjaem: nah, just test it01:24
luke-jrjaem: see valid data ... or not, if your N900 is like SpeedEvil's01:25
luke-jrSpeedEvil: weird01:25
BCMMjaem: is that .cache/launch?01:25
jaemluke-jr: I'll be back momentarily01:25
jaemBCMM: That sounds about right.01:25
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Also - gpx-recorder works fine01:25
SpeedEvilactually - it's generated a file, I diddn't check01:25
jacekowskiwould be nice to get proper datasheet from gps chip manufacturer01:26
SpeedEvilfile looks fine01:26
SpeedEviljacekowski: not much help01:26
alteregojacekowski: upload to the chip would be amazing ...01:26
SpeedEviljacekowski: inferring stuff from the datasheet, it would not directly output NMEA01:26
alteregoWill this stuff be open in MeeGo? :/01:27
SpeedEviljacekowski: a little program on the phone CPU does thenumbercrunching01:27
SpeedEvilwe're really talking to that01:27
jaemluke-jr: Well, the *app* works, and updates, but the data is quite clearly bogus.01:27
luke-jrjaem: :(01:27
jaemI take it the GPS Status icon shouldn't appear with this code, right?01:27
SpeedEviljaem: Start something that uses GPS01:27
SpeedEviljaem: as you would normally - leaving hte app running01:27
jaemluke-jr: Just FYI, my phone was a non-retail unit, although I believe it should be final hardware.01:28
alteregoSpeedEvil: did you use my app earlier?01:28
alteregoWhat did you think? :)01:28
jaemSpeedEvil: I'll check that.01:28
SpeedEvilalterego: not much, as it bombed immediately with the qt lib problem01:28
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jaemalterego: which app is this?01:28
alteregoOh, so you didn't install Qt them?01:28
SpeedEvilalterego: Does failing at resolving links stages count as use... hmm.01:28
SpeedEvilI have various QT stuff installed. It sounded like pain to work out which right qt lib I should have01:29
alteregoSpeedEvil: not really, just wanted to know what you thought of the UI01:29
alteregoQtLocation ...01:29
luke-jrSpeedEvil: is yours also pre-retail>?01:30
SpeedEvilAltitude 303?01:30
jaemluke-jr: It works when running the GPS Recorder app, although I'm not certain about the "climb" data.01:31
jaemIf you want, I can walk it up the hill outside and check properly01:31
alteregoSpeedEvil: libqtm-location01:31
jaemluke-jr: Also, my phone is definitely post-summit by a good while, but I'm not sure how old it is.  My prof got it from someone at Dev Days in California a week or two before retail shipments started.01:32
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SpeedEvilCould the altitude be ft/m?01:32
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SpeedEvilit looks about right for feet, but bogus for m01:32
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alteregojaem: the bottom screenshot is of the latest UI, the others were work in progress. The exe is in there though you need to install libqtm-location01:33
SpeedEviljaem: yeah - it's bogus01:33
jaemalterego: what is this "exe" you speak of? :P01:34
SpeedEviljaem: the gpx reports 100mish, the elevation reports 30001:34
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luke-jrit's not feet01:34
SpeedEvilluke-jr: my phone is retail, purchased as a pre-release01:34
luke-jrSpeedEvil: I don't specify units for altitude :p01:34
alteregojaem: just a binary compiled for PR1.201:34
SpeedEvilluke-jr: have you reverse engineered all of this?01:35
jaemalterego: That looks nice!  Is the compass face an image, or drawn with Qt?01:35
kerioMaemo Altitude Units01:35
keriowe should get that in the SI01:35
alteregojaem: drawn with Qt when it's changed but blit for rotation.01:35
luke-jrSpeedEvil: alterego helped01:35
SpeedEvilluke-jr: here - it looks like straight ft/m at 100m alt01:35
luke-jrhe found the time/date01:35
jaemalterego: shiny01:35
luke-jrSpeedEvil: wtf is ft/m?01:35
jaemluke-jr: "feet per metre", of course... or so I would have to assume01:36
SpeedEvilluke-jr: reported ele are in units of .33m01:36
SpeedEvilwell - ish01:36
SpeedEvilbut it looks like a straight conversion01:36
kerioit's one foot / meter01:36
jaemPoke me if anyone needs more testing - I'm going back to work for now.01:36
luke-jr[15:27:31] <luke-jr> 649 ??? = 353.5 metres01:36
luke-jr[15:28:10] <luke-jr> 308 ??? = 107.5 metres01:36
alteregoluke-jr: where did you get that init code for the GPS? Any idea what it actually means? :)01:37
SpeedEvilOk - same time.01:37
alteregoluke-jr: might contain the assisted data ...01:37
luke-jralterego: strace, and no01:37
luke-jralterego: that would explain why it doesn't work for anyone else :)01:37
SpeedEvil22:36:00 - GPX reports 100.0m Altituder reports 30101:38
alteregoluke-jr: probably ;) look for satellite numers in that code.01:38
SpeedEvilluke-jr: how much data si there that you don't understand in the packet?01:38
alteregoluke-jr: would def explain it if it stops working in 4 hours :P01:38
luke-jrSpeedEvil: more than 50%01:38
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Do you have location-test-gui?01:39
alteregoSpeedEvil: quite a lot, check the wiki page.01:39
luke-jrSpeedEvil: dunno01:39
SpeedEvilluke-jr: you would typically also expect a series of triplets - satellite number, alt/az, signal01:39
SpeedEvilquads even01:39
luke-jrI wrote a program to dump hex packets combined with the Python location output01:39
luke-jreverything except altitude's units is decoded from the Python data01:40
alteregoluke-jr: actually, that message doesn't look at all like it's got agps data ...01:40
alteregoToo short and not enough meaningful ino.01:40
alteregoinfo ...01:40
SpeedEvilIt may be an initial time01:41
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alteregoluke-jr: what is the time where you are?01:44
luke-jr5:45 PM01:45
alteregoMy crap, it'd be UTC anyway I would have thought ...01:45
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* asj is really pleased to see how good fapman is getting01:49
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what SI is ish01:49
jaemasj: Oh? I should try it.01:49
alteregoluke-jr: can you get the data for that init again and see if it's changed :)01:50
asjjaem: very worth it, I used to fear looking for and installing new stuff.  With -devel the ap manager makes me shudder01:50
DocScrutinizerGPS will typically send lots of different packets01:50
DocScrutinizeralso receive quite a few01:50
DocScrutinizerfor A01:51
jaemasj: Awesome, I'll give it a try.01:51
jaemOn Diablo there was a daemon to sync the clock from the GPS signal.  Is that available on Fremantle?01:51
DocScrutinizerwonder why I got no 0xcc packets at all01:51
jaemI assume the "sync time" option normally syncs from the cell carrier...?01:51
alteregojaem: we can do it now :)01:52
jaemDocScrutinizer: to which one?01:52
DocScrutinizerjaem: anyway there's packet ntp01:52
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DocScrutinizerjaem: to you01:52
luke-jralterego: yes maam01:52
DocScrutinizercell carrier time01:52
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DocScrutinizerfsckng HAM just tool 5 minutes to make up his mind about the ~30 apps I could deinstall01:53
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DocScrutinizerso "makes me shudder" is a euphemism01:54
luke-jralterego: it hasn't01:54
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asjDocScrutinizer: why aren't you using fapman? ;)01:55
alteregoluke-jr: probably, nothing ingteresting there then :)01:56
DocScrutinizerlemme think... maybe because I wasn't completely dizzy by its performance when giving it a 30s try01:56
alteregoluke-jr: I've noticed that when I use it, (it wont have a lock) and it shows info that's very much like that eroneous info I was seeing earlier. Though I've noticed what you're reporting as speed is decreasing by one ...01:57
alteregoevery update01:57
jaemDocScrutinizer, asj: well, queued operations is a big thing for me.01:57
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asjfcamera rocks01:58
DocScrutinizerjaem: ack01:58
jaemI don't blame Nokia for not doing it like traditional package managers, but they could have at least backgrounded the installs like Ubuntu's "Software Centre" does.01:58
DocScrutinizerasj: just tested it, found genuine even better quality :-S01:58
alteregoasj: agreed :)01:58
jaemI usually use the cli package managers anyway, but for newbies, the Ubuntu Software Centre is on the right track ,I think.01:59
jaemasj: I tried fcamera this morning, but the viewfinder is blank.  Am I Doing it Wrong(TM)?01:59
luke-jrjaem: you can switch apps while it installs01:59
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alteregojaem: open the lens cover :P01:59
asjjaem: did you open the lens cover? ;p01:59
DocScrutinizerjaem: open cam lens slider ;-P01:59
jaemall three: I did that.01:59
alteregoDid you restart your phone?02:00
lcuklol reboot and try again02:00
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asjjaem: oh, did you reboot?02:00
lcukthen turn the lights on :p02:00
alteregoAlso, if you're using a custom kernel ... gutted :P02:00
jaemluke-jr: No, what I meant was allowing queued operations without having to select them all first.  The Ubuntu Software Centre handles it by just throwing the download into a "current operations" tab and letting the user continue browsing for more.02:00
DocScrutinizerjaem: if it says "no photos to display" then slide down to get viewfinder02:00
jaemalterego: Ah, will that kill it?02:00
alteregojaem: yes02:00
jaemalterego: bah02:01
jaemAny way around that?  I like my kernel02:01
* jaem hugs his kernel protectively02:01
alteregojaem: unless you compile the drivers yourself, which you can ofcourse :)02:01
jaemalterego: Yeah, I suppose I could do that.02:01
alteregoAll in their subversion garage account.02:01
jaemAre there src-debs in -testing as well?02:01
alteregoPossibly, didn't check02:02
DocScrutinizerjaem: you noticed the blue square icon fcam kernel modules, in HAM?02:02
alteregoI installed manually with dpkg -i02:02
jaemDocScrutinizer: I used apt-get/dpkg as well02:02
jaemIt complained about blessn900 - was that from the same devs, or just otherwise conflicting?02:02
DocScrutinizersee, that's why I like to use HAM for certain purposes02:02
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alteregoluke-jr: your app has locked now, giving me good data02:03
DocScrutinizerscrew blessn900 -> crap02:03
alteregoDocScrutinizer: didn't like that app myself :/02:03
alteregokudos for whover did it though. I just thought it was awful :D02:04
luke-jralterego: without Maemo accessing GPS?02:04
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alteregoluke-jr: yup02:04
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alteregojust left it running unti it llocked.02:04
DocScrutinizer(blessn900) +302:04
DocScrutinizernothing more to say02:05
luke-jris ofono 0.23 recent enough for N900 support?02:05
alteregoluke-jr: what ever meego are using ...02:06
lcukDocScrutinizer, do same test using fcam and blessn900 again please02:06
lcukcomplete verification of differences?02:06
jaemDocScrutinizer: I was asking about why the packages conflicted.02:07
DocScrutinizerlcuk: cost 5 beers :-P02:07
lcuksure at the next crossing point conf/summit02:07
DocScrutinizerjaem: both come with 'proprietary' cam drivers02:07
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: you tell us02:08
lcukDocScrutinizer, fcamera fcam-dev fcam-drivers are all OSS02:08
lcuki just apt-get sourced them02:08
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: -.-02:08
DocScrutinizerI gave fcam a short test today (1h ago) wasn't impressed02:08
lcukfrom fremantle/free02:08
alteregoluke-jr: alt looks like it's in feet for me.02:09
DocScrutinizerlcuk: that's reason for the '02:09
luke-jralterego: it's not.02:09
DocScrutinizeryou seen the gyro shit on tmo?02:09
SpeedEvilalterego: run some sort of othedr app to readout the ele02:10
alteregoluke-jr: speed looks correct02:10
lcuksure i posted in the thread :P02:10
jaemDocScrutinizer: in this context, is "shit" good or bad?02:10
lcuk-drivers README indicates GPL202:10
DocScrutinizerwho knows02:10
alteregoSpeedEvil: I am, but my app is in meters ...02:10
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DocScrutinizerit's gibberish for shure02:10
DocScrutinizersee my comment02:10
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keriofcamera doesn't work with custom kernels02:11
kerioyou probably can just recompile the modules02:11
DocScrutinizeryou can NOT unshake / stabilize video with g-meter02:11
SpeedEvilI get 301 reported = 100.0 real02:11
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DocScrutinizeryou NEED gyro02:11
lcukDocScrutinizer, it does not unshake/stabilise02:11
DocScrutinizerit does02:11
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: that isn't quite true02:11
lcukit merely waits for a quite spell before using a pic taken in that spel02:11
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alteregoluke-jr: bearing looks correct too.02:11
DocScrutinizerthat's what they claimed02:11
lcukllread what i said02:12
lcukand watch the video02:12
lcukthey show it02:12
lcukaccel == wobbly == throw away picture02:12
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lcukaccel == stable == keep picture02:12
luke-jralterego: lol, good; had no clue how to test bearing XD02:12
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lcukits not removing jitter by technical means, its selecting the best time to grab and keep a picture02:12
SpeedEvilYou can rotate it cleanly in the axis of gravity without the accel noticing - but...02:12
alteregoluke-jr: it's repoting the same degrees as my compass is.02:12
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: as long as you're not building a centripedal 'gyro' out of 3 mega-sensitive g-meters - it is02:12
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: of course.02:13
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: it's 'good enough'02:13
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DocScrutinizerwhat? 3 g-meters? forget it02:13
DocScrutinizersee FR02:13
alteregoluke-jr: easy to chdeck when you move :P02:14
DocScrutinizeryou need ~10^2 to 10^4 better sensitivity02:14
luke-jralterego: is bearing supposed to be 0..360 or -180..180?02:14
DocScrutinizerlcuk: hmm, even that will fail02:15
lcukDocScrutinizer, it gives best chance possible02:15
DocScrutinizeryep sure02:15
lcukits a decent sidestep :)02:15
SpeedEvil - on multiple accellerometer positioning02:15
SpeedEvilorientation computing02:15
alteregoluke-jr: 0-36002:16
DocScrutinizeraaw do we need to discuss diffs between rotation and linear accel now?02:16
alteregoWell 0-35902:16
ieatlintanyone hear ever tried using pulseaudio in qt to record audio?02:16
SpeedEvildocs: see the above page02:16
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DocScrutinizerthere's been somebody who was really upset about that qt-PA crap02:17
jaemDocScrutinizer, lcuk, SpeedEvil: Heck with it - get one of these and you're set!
DocScrutinizergot lag of some 5s02:17
alteregoanyway, bed time for me.02:17
jaemalterego: g'night02:17
alteregonight folks02:18
* alterego wonders off into dream land02:18
lcukhaha jaem i am getting reasonably high resolution absolute positioning with standard hardware :p02:18
ieatlintwell, in a simple c application with pa_simple, i have no lag02:18
lcukwithin confides of test area of course ;)02:18
lcuknite alter02:18
ieatlinti'm working with ~20ms sound clips, and seen nothing of note02:18
jaemlcuk: well, we have two of those to play around with. :)  They're not exactly cheap, though. :/02:19
ieatlintunfortunately i can't use QAudioInput, because i need to pull the audio directly from pulseaudio02:19
DocScrutinizerieatlint: check out bugtrac02:19
DocScrutinizerthere's been a ticket with quite some comments02:20
ieatlintabout the lag?02:20
DocScrutinizerin Qt02:20
ieatlintyep, lag not the issue :P02:20
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DocScrutinizerlatency to be exact02:20
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DocScrutinizermentioning quite a number of related issues as well02:21
ieatlintmy issue is far more obscure... i need a clean audio input, and QAudioInput uses the ALSA interface to PulseAudio to get its data.  The ALSA interface for PulseAudio adds a filter to the audio (i presume to make voice recordings sound better) -- this filter fucks me02:21
DocScrutinizerlike PA chosing buffer size on arbitrary criteria or somesuch02:22
ieatlintso i have to hit PulseAudio directly from qt, which is turning into something of a joke unto itself02:22
DocScrutinizerALSA IF adds a filter??? o.O02:22
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ieatlintit took me more hours than i want to ever want to admit to learn this, and ultimately someone on the dev mailing list helped me out a lot02:23
DocScrutinizerplease dump the stack of plugins as seen by ALSA, analog to aplay -v02:23
ieatlintit'd be in PA, not ALSA02:23
ieatlintit's added before it hits ALSA02:23
DocScrutinizer(sorry can't remember name of alsa_xxx() function off top of my head)02:24
ieatlintif i record audio with pa_simple_read() using the default audio device, i get the filter -- if i tell it to record from the audio device "source.hw0", i get a clean signal02:24
DocScrutinizerPA is the hoofed one02:24
luke-jralterego: what is used between 359 and 0?02:24
DocScrutinizerALSA is rather clean02:24
ieatlintyeah, the filter's not in ALSA -- ALSA just uses the default PA audio device for recording, which gets the filter then02:25
ieatlintPA is a joke with worse api docs than EFL02:25
lcukjaem, did you see the video i did with it?02:25
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ieatlintthat was interesting timing :P02:26
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: know this one?
jaemlcuk: sorry, I wasn't paying attention.  What's this?02:27
jaemIf it wasn't recent, then probably.02:27
lcukyou posted link about positioning and stuff02:27
lcukits very recent :)02:28
DocScrutinizerjust some 10 pages but a laugh as well as a cry02:28
jaemlcuk: Gah... Flash is murdering itself again.  Will watch in a few.02:28
DocScrutinizerieatlint: they sync with cellmo OTA GSM timeslices, for completely unclear reasons and purposes - go figure!02:29
jaemlcuk: woah, that's neat (conceptually and in terms of execution)!02:30
jaemI like this comment: "If this was on iPhone, I would have guessed it's \"magic\". But since it is not..."02:30
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jaemlcuk: Is it strictly based on movement?02:31
lcukaccelerometer is disabled02:31
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: yeah, that looks like the filter :P02:31
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ieatlintthat filter caused me much pain02:32
* ieatlint shakes fist02:32
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luke-jrfwiw, someone wrote a BME replacement in BASH:
DocScrutinizermaemo fremantle audio system is thoroughly fscked up02:33
ieatlinti've got a little c program now that can read magnetic stripes02:33
jaemlcuk: That is pretty darn awesome... When do we get the code? :)02:33
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: electranox!?!?!?! that cheeter?02:34
jaemHow is liqbase development going, then?  I haven't seen new packages in ages.02:34
ieatlintand a qt application that will nicely format id cards from north america and credit cards... and just need to work out this pulseaudio in qt thing to have it all nice and functional02:34
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lcukthats because i have been busy for ages02:34
jaemlcuk: Yeah, understandable.02:34
DocScrutinizerclaiming changing a 9 to a 1 from *my* original post would constitute a script written by the author???02:34
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jaemI wasn't complaining - just expressing excitement over the project.02:34
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: please eat it02:35
lcuk:D indeed, ive been fixing bugs and trying to do some reorganisation02:35
jaemlcuk: Well, if you need people to break their phones testing it, please let me know!02:35
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: ???02:36
lcukheh will do!02:36
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: WTF?!02:36
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: first I've ever heard of electranox02:37
luke-jrhow is he a cheater?02:37
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DocScrutinizerclick on "script from forum" link on electranox02:37
DocScrutinizer[2010-07-10 13:41:13] <DocScrutinizer> elektranox: bitte vergleiche >>Pancake wrote a script to charge the battery without this daemon based on information from the public available specs and the not working script from forum.<< mit, und finde bitte eine etwas mehr den tatsachen entsprechende formulierung02:39
DocScrutinizerhe didn't react on that polite request to correct the wording. He's a cheater02:40
Arkenoiwhat is recommended djvu reader (if any)?02:40
DocScrutinizerplease also note posting date of
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* DocScrutinizer pissed and off for some other appliances to kick around the room02:43
luke-jrdoes ofono have any *real* documentation?02:43
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jaemDocScrutinizer: do you have a large, solid wood cabinet?02:44
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lpotterluke-jr: in the ofono source tree under doc/02:45
luke-jrlpotter: none of the dbus commands it talks about exist02:46
lpotterluke-jr: are you using phonesim?02:47
luke-jroh, apparently because it says I have no modems02:47
luke-jrwtf is phonesim02:47
DocScrutinizerbtw the diff between status 0x90 and status 0x10 is exactly D+/- short detection which is handled in musb_core.c02:47
lpotter:) phone simulator.02:47
luke-jrI don't want no simulator crap02:47
lpotteris there a modem present?02:48
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luke-jrlpotter: it's a N90002:48
DocScrutinizerand he claims somebody has WRITTEN a script based on some arbitrary info found elsewhere - while in fact he changed ONE CHAR of my original draft, ***as suggested by script**:  "charging fimished, status: 0x10"02:48
asj"Waiter, only real crap for luke-jr please"02:48
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: so you wrote it, not the guy he credits?02:49
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: well it took a while, probably due to my fuzzy explanations, but YES!!!02:50
DocScrutinizeryou got it02:50
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: that's not cheating02:50
luke-jrit's plagerism and copyright infringement02:50
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DocScrutinizerasking him to correct it and he ignores is worse than cheating though02:51
DocScrutinizerdunno the right english word02:51
* DocScrutinizer off before channel discipline suffers02:51
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luke-jrlpotter: ..02:53
lpotterluke-jr: is maemo running? not sure how ofono does with the maemo modem stuff02:55
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luke-jrlpotter: Maemo is running in a different root02:56
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luke-jrI can't find docs on how to setup gprs0 via ofono..02:57
luke-jrnm, duh02:57
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SpeedEvil1tcpdump -i wlan0 - causes all sorts of issues - network dead often till reboot04:16
SpeedEvil1is there a solution04:16
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MohammadAGprolly rmmod the wlan kernel module?04:17
MohammadAGthen modprobe it back04:17
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SpeedEvilwhat's mmcqd?04:18
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SpeedEvilI suppose what I really want is tcpdump to actually work without killing hte internet04:20
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DOnJUiLiEmi have bought today the n900 it s really great !!!! :)04:42
prontobecareful of the usb port on it04:42
prontomy first n900 it fell out04:42
DOnJUiLiEmwhat do u mean04:42
DOnJUiLiEmi want to know if there are some french here which use tv with n90004:43
asjDOnJUiLiEm: don't apply to much force to the usb connector04:43
DOnJUiLiEmoki asj04:43
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DOnJUiLiEmi have sfr french provider and i want to know if there are an application we can start tv on n90004:44
DOnJUiLiEmit s seams not working04:45
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DOnJUiLiEmthx to nokia too to have choosed a linux based distribution04:46
DOnJUiLiEmi think it s a very nice choose04:46
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DOnJUiLiEmit s my first phone like that and i m really very happy04:47
Gryllidasame here04:47
DOnJUiLiEmi develope a little on qt and i think after read doc on how to develop on n900 i will produce some application04:48
DOnJUiLiEmbut i want to know too something04:48
DOnJUiLiEmmaybe it s off topic but u will say me04:48
DOnJUiLiEmi have listen about the backtrack mobile distribution04:48
DOnJUiLiEmwhere i can download it04:48
DOnJUiLiEmi realy want test it04:49
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DOnJUiLiEmreally the n900 is the best phone in the world fuck apple :)04:50
asjDOnJUiLiEm: you're on the wrong channel, we only complain about the n900 and nokia here04:54
DOnJUiLiEmok ok04:54
DOnJUiLiEmso to come back on the subject04:55
luke-jrDOnJUiLiEm: N900 isn't a phone04:55
DOnJUiLiEmi have seen that there are a fm transmiter04:55
DOnJUiLiEmon the n90004:55
DOnJUiLiEmsomeone have an how to to make it ?04:55
luke-jryou just turn it on in Settings04:55
DOnJUiLiEmhmmm ????04:56
luke-jrit's very very very short range though04:56
DOnJUiLiEmi know but it could be usefull in car04:56
luke-jrtoo short range for car too :)04:56
DOnJUiLiEmso how i activated it ?04:56
luke-jr[20:55:56] <luke-jr> you just turn it on in Settings04:56
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ShadowJKor in media player05:10
luke-jrStskeeps: what does wl1251-cal do?05:10
ShadowJKfrom the app menu05:10
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DOnJUiLiEmnice work very welll !!!!05:14
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DOnJUiLiEmtoo nice05:16
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luke-jrgetting phonet usable seems to be impossible -.-06:36
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Macerluke-jr: no kidding :-P06:49
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: I can't figure out any way to make it usable... no decent documentation, I guess is the real problem06:53
luke-jrshort of booting Maemo and just letting it do magic06:54
luke-jrand ofono just pretends there's no modem, without giving me any errors or such06:55
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yigalshould I get an expensive speaker, foxl v2 = 200$, to listen at home and on a bicycle to music - I'll be commuting 50 miles roundtrip?  Any thoughts welcome.07:24
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luke-jrStskeeps: poke07:40
luke-jrdid you mention ofono working on N900?07:40
Stskeepsyes, though some patches are getting put into it i believe07:41
luke-jrso git ofono doesn't work yet?07:41
luke-jrany idea how to get phonet0 up?07:41
Stskeepsit's not my area of work sadly, so i don't know - and the guys working on it is at vacation :P07:42
luke-jrit's all ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP): phonet0: link is not ready07:42
Stskeepsand check jebba's tutorials07:42
luke-jrI saw a few pages of Jebbas... not too useful :/07:42
luke-jrone had a command followed by ifconfig phonet0 up, but that didn't work either07:42
luke-jrphonet -a 0x6C -i phonet007:44
Stskeepsyeah, it would turn on the modem i believe07:44
Stskeepson a sidenote, N8x0 DVFS doesn't look that difficult to patch07:44
Stskeepsas i kinda suspect any newer kernel on n8x0 runs on low freq07:45
luke-jron a sidenote, I wrote a program that starts and prints GPS info, talking direct to cellmo07:45
luke-jrbut only works if I get phonet0 up :p07:46
Macerwell. looks like bulgaria has made the racist routing list07:46
luke-jrStskeeps: wanna try it?07:46
luke-jrno AGPS, so it might take a while if your GPS doesn't have the schedule thing already07:47
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Stskeepsluke-jr: source, not binaries, please :P07:47
luke-jrStskeeps: append .c to the URI then07:47
luke-jrStskeeps: but be warned, at least someone here had a bad phonet header :P07:47
luke-jr(or maybe the SDK GCC can't compile it...)07:48
Stskeepsgood job07:48
luke-jrStskeeps: any idea what unit the altitude is btw? :P07:48
luke-jrI couldn't quite identify that07:48
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luke-jrStskeeps: also, any clues on getting the wifi working outside Maemo?07:50
MacerBulgaria borders five other countries: Romania to the north (mostly along the River Danube), Serbia and the Republic of Macedonia to the west, and Greece and Turkey to the south.07:50
Maceroh yeah. a total shit geopolitical neighborhood07:50
luke-jrit apparently needs more than firmware, but the -cal app is too complex to simply run or chroot07:50
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yigalMacer Greece is an area of politival shit right now?  sorry for instigating08:01
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luke-jryawn, I just ran my battery down to 0 :(08:04
Maceryigal: haha08:06
MacerMilitary spending in 2009 cost $1.19 billion.08:06
Macerbulgaria military spending 1.19billion08:07
luke-jrHow about Bologna?08:07
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Macerdon't know but the US is around 685 billion :)08:08
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luke-jrMacer: ... idiot :)08:08
luke-jrBologna is a meat08:09
Maceroh. figured it was just another unknown euro shithole like bulgaria08:09
Macerwith all the other "programs" for defense.. the US actually spends over 1trillion08:09
luke-jrMacer: pop quiz08:09
Macerbulgaria... 1.9 billion ... us... 1.2 trillion08:09
luke-jris Beef a meat or country?08:09
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luke-jrMacer: time's up! the answer is MEAT08:10
luke-jrMacer: next: is Turkey a meat or country?08:10
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Macerhey ;) turkey is both08:10
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Stskeepsluke-jr: firmware should be enough08:11
luke-jrStskeeps: :/08:11
Macerluke-jr: :)08:11
Maceran no offense08:11
Macerbut historically08:11
Stskeepsluke-jr: in meego we don't have wl1251-cal either08:11
Macerbologna was actually an ancient republic in italy08:11
luke-jrStskeeps: how do you set the MAC?08:12
Macerso tthe bolognese republic ;)08:12
luke-jrcuriously, my CAL reading app couldn't find any of the wlan data :/08:12
Stskeepsluke-jr: it gets set randomly within some area but a valid mac.. we need to port wl1251-cal too08:12
* luke-jr ponders if he can tell Maemo that 2G/3G is useless except for data08:13
luke-jr(in other words, don't bother unless it's the only data available)08:14
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Macerwikipedia has an article for everything :)08:17
luke-jrMacer: stfu already08:17
Macerremind me to give them a donation08:17
Macerhonestly i am surprised but there isn't a republic or country or state named beef :)08:18
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Maceri'm sure there is probably a city or town tho08:18
luke-jrMacer: Bologna is *still* a city08:18
Maceryeah but it started off as a republic08:18
Macer:) but i can't think of a place named beef08:19
Macerthere has to be one tho08:19
luke-jryou just mentioned a Wikipedia article that says the city was first08:19
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Macerwell. rome was a republic too :) so would you consider it just the city of rome ? or almost all of the known conquered world at the time?08:21
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* asj looks up hot swapping n900 batteries09:04
SwedeMikeasj: doesn't work.09:06
asjworked like a charm :)09:07
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SmokeyDhey everyone. I resized the MyDocs paritition and created an extra ext3 partition. I want it automounted on a specific folder, but I read somewhere that /etc/fstab is generated on startup. So where should I then specify where it is automounted on boot?09:11
SwedeMikefstab is not generated, it's static.09:11
SwedeMikeso yes, it's the correct place to put stuff in that you want mounted on boot09:11
SmokeyDSwedeMike: ok, cool09:12
SmokeyDSwedeMike: is there also a way to make the extra partition available in usb mass storage mode?09:12
luke-jrSwedeMike: uh, yes it is generated09:13
SwedeMikeoh sorry, I didn't see that this was #maemo09:14
SwedeMikeI thought it was one of the bunch of ubuntu channels I was on.09:14
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SmokeyDluke-jr: ok, so where is it generated and how then would I make sure it includes the partition I justs created?09:16
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luke-jrSmokeyD: nfc09:38
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phellarvHmm - Anyone knows wether it,s possible to get the internal mailclient to show only subscribed imap-folders?10:21
sezuanphellarv: I guess that's the default behaviour.10:22
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phellarvsezuan: Nope - it shows _all_ folders.10:24
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sezuanInteresting. I see my subscribed folders only.10:46
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nid0the mail client should (does) obey server-side folder subscriptions. if it's showing you all folders then server-side you're probably subscribed to them all, and just have local subscriptions set in whatever other mail client(s) you use that only see some of them10:49
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SmokeyDhey everyone, I want to reflash my N900 since it won't startup anymore. It starts with the Nokia screen, then goes to the five dots schreen which move back and forth like it is starting up, but there it stays. I might have messed up the /etc/event.d/rcS-late script. Should I flash my N900 (European version) with RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin? Or do I also need an eMMC content image?11:25
Stskeepsjust go for that image11:26
SmokeyDStskeeps: ok, so just flash that image and it will reset the config files, installed apps, etc? I do have a backup of my mmc drive, and on the mmc drive there are also backups I made with the backup tool of the phone11:27
SmokeyDSo I can restore the rest from there right?11:27
* Stskeeps tries to rewrite image11:28
SmokeyDWell, I am flashing now11:29
SmokeyDkeep my fingers crossed11:29
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Corsacwon't be easy to type11:29
SmokeyDCorsac: what won't be easy to type? With my fingers crossed?11:29
SmokeyD"CMT flashed successfully"11:30
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SmokeyDit ios booting again11:30
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SmokeyDI never new I could be so happy to hear that all familiar sound11:32
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alcyfolks, quick help needed. I got my father the N900 and got OOo etc. running by simply installing the Debian Img App (under MyDocs). He is facing the problem of not being able to transfer files between ubuntu & n900, which rebooting the phone solved. so, is there a better non-CLI fix for this issue ?11:53
alcy...and except rebooting the phone.11:53
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alcy...and we live in different cities, so that doesn't help.11:56
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kerioDocScrutinizer: :(12:00
kerioi'm sure your script is better!12:00
kerioalcy: it's not ubuntu, it's debian12:01
alcykerio: eerm, Ubuntu on pc.12:01
th3hatewhere should i place shell scripts to run them directly from terminal12:02
th3hatein opt?12:02
kerioand the home directory is the same12:03
kerioooh, i see...12:03
kerioput the things in MyDocs, connect the usb cable in storage mode, wait for ubuntu to do his automounting rituals?12:03
villageralcy: how does he transfer files? usb mass storage?12:03
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alcyvillager: yup12:04
alcyvillager: so the problem is, either he had an app in use which was probably accessing MyDocs, or something similar to that effect12:04
villageralcy: well I guess he needs to unmount the debian image before he can put it into mass storage... I think these days there's an app for that in the menu12:04
alcyvillager: ah alright, will search for the app and let him know. cheers.12:05
DocScrutinizerkerio: no, pancake's script is better, he changed 9 to 1 while copying mine, and usually that works better12:05
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DocScrutinizerthe pity is he copied everything else incl typos, and claims he had written it12:06
villagerthough I thought running OOo via a debian img on a n900 would be too uber-slow to be useful12:08
villagerand not have a very good gui either12:09
villagerwell, maybe I wasn't patient enough12:10
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alcyvillager: well, its not my phone, for a few hours it was with me, I needed to have OOo for dad, that's it. yup, it was painfully slow. and its probably a matter of time, when dad will call me for more fixes.12:12
alcyand them probably, I'll flash it.12:13
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alcyor provide instructions12:13
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villageralcy: if you're using the Easy Debian package, it looks like the menu item is called "Close Debian"12:14
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alcyvillager: yup, just told him. found it in the wiki/help12:14
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alcyvillage: anything that my dad's gonna miss if I flash it with Debian ?12:15
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villageralcy: what do you mean flash it with debian?12:16
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alcyvillager: getting rid of the Easy deb package, and flashing with Debian instead (what ? did I miss  somehitng ?)12:17
villageralcy: so, overwrite Maemo? well, as far as I know, there *is* no debian-for-n90012:18
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villagerperhaps that other free maemo-replacement project, can't recall its name right now, but it's not debian as such12:19
alcyvillager: I must have misread somewhere really then ! I thought easy deb was for people who wanted a quick fix, as opposed to say people who could afford to go take some other route. guess I was just making a presumption.12:21
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villagerwhat was the name of that free-OS-project for nokia internet tablets?12:24
villageroh yeah, that was it12:26
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villageralcy: well, that Mer project would be for those hacker-type people who could afford to take some other route... but you'd probably miss a lot12:27
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alcyvillager: yup. and my dad is far from being those hacker-people. :)12:28
Stskeepswell, meego's the way12:28
Stskeepsmer's dead12:28
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TermanaN900DocScrutinizer, dont cry for Mer argentina... i dont know the rest of the lyrics for that song. (thankfully)12:33
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DocScrutinizerTermanaN900: I'll tell to werner almesberger :-) lives in BUE12:38
DocScrutinizerGAN900: ping12:39
DocScrutinizermuch too early12:40
kerioDocScrutinizer: what are you doing then?12:46
DocScrutinizertoo early for tampa bay12:48
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TomaszDlbt, the joggler is on its way to you12:50
* lbt watches driveway for van12:51
TomaszDshould be any minute now12:51
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TomaszD13.7GBP this cost me12:52
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TermanaN900TomaszD, and a piece of your soul12:56
TomaszDthat's exactly what happens when waiting in a queue at the post office around here, how did you know TermanaN900 ?12:57
Stskeepsyes, it is12:57
Stskeepspolska poczta = fucking evil12:58
TomaszDactually no, the post office ladies around here are nice and helpful12:58
TomaszDbut I can imagine why Stskeeps would run into problems12:58
StskeepsTomaszD: the queues are bizarre here in warsaw12:59
TomaszDas far as I know you have to call the president to get into one12:59
TomaszDpeople are weird, true12:59
TermanaN900TomaszD, i knew from my secret mediumistic abilities12:59
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: ping13:02
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, wifi-psm is
jacekowskiwhat i can do you for?13:04
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jacekowskiwhat can i do you for?13:04
DocScrutinizerjust saying hello13:05
DocScrutinizerwhile sorting my head13:05
jacekowskiso you just highlighted me for fun13:05
DocScrutinizerbq24150 kernel driver, status?13:05
tybolltcrashie around by any chance?13:05
jacekowskiit will require new kernel13:05
jacekowskii can't make it self contained13:05
DocScrutinizerany results on serial console bidir?13:06
tybollthelloooo crash?13:06
jacekowskibecause of i2c subsystem13:06
jacekowskiand devices have to be defined in i2c bus driver13:06
jacekowskiotherwise i could make a workaround that it would force itself to register13:06
jacekowskiwhen loaded13:06
jacekowskibut it will panic on unload13:06
DocScrutinizerwe prolly don't want it that way13:07
DocScrutinizertalk to titan13:07
DocScrutinizerour god of nasty wicked kernels13:07
jacekowskiwhat's his nick here?13:07
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jacekowskior jabber13:07
jacekowskior anything13:07
jacekowski~seen t-tan13:08
TermanaN900DocScrutinizer, conspiring with overclockers!? well i never :P13:08
infobott-tan <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 40d 14h 27m 11s ago, saying: 'smoking hot device?'.13:08
jacekowskii think he might be dead13:08
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DocScrutinizerhmm, prolly killed by a lynchmob13:08
jacekowskibtw. i bought a breadboard13:09
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: join h-e-n!13:09
jacekowski12:09 -!- Irssi: #h-e-n: Total of 1 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0 normal]13:09
DocScrutinizeryour kernel patches more than welcome in hostmode kernel13:10
jacekowskithat #h-e-n?13:10
jacekowskithat h-e-n13:10
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DocScrutinizeralterego is about to find his way thru our chaos, building patched kernel etc, talk to him13:11
DocScrutinizeralso to hcm13:11
keriowhat's wrong with the Linux Kernel For Power Users?13:11
jacekowskii'm still using stock kernel13:12
jacekowskii'm about to break my phone13:12
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DocScrutinizerunmanaged as maintainer had been killed by lynchmob13:13
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DocScrutinizersee backscroll13:13
DocScrutinizerkerio: ^^^13:13
kerioi see13:13
jacekowskifuck yeah13:13
jacekowskinow i have tablet without a phone13:14
DocScrutinizerduh wut?13:14
jacekowskiImage authentication failed from cellmo13:14
Stskeepsyou can probably reflash cellmo13:14
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DocScrutinizeryou SHALT NOT mess with cellmo firmware13:14
kerioyou SHALT mess with cellmo firmware, for we are bored and easily amused13:15
kerioalso, pwnd13:15
Stskeepswell, as long as he doesn't start blaming nokia13:15
DocScrutinizerodds are you need coldflash though, if cellmo solidly fscked up13:16
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DocScrutinizeror figure how coldflash works, which brings us back to my 2nd question13:17
DocScrutinizerany results on serial console bidir?13:17
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DocScrutinizerwouldn't like to build an extremely expensive unique prototype jig/fixture for TermanaN900 and just to find I had the wrong pins13:18
jacekowskii bought breadboard13:18
jacekowskiand played with multimeter little bit13:19
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: could you describe what's the exact process you are following when accessing bootconsole?13:19
Stskeepsenable r&d mode, serial console13:19
DocScrutinizerincl which tools you use for that?13:19
jacekowskiStskeeps: and you press button on keyboard13:19
DocScrutinizerhw tools13:19
jacekowskiStskeeps: which one13:19
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: nothing13:19
Stskeepsno, i don't13:19
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: flasher13:19
jacekowskiStskeeps: you don't press any buttons on keyboard?13:20
jacekowskiStskeeps: and you jig has 3 pins?13:20
Stskeepswell, getting into nolo prompt i've never tried13:20
DocScrutinizerhw tools!!13:20
jacekowskihmm, ok13:20
jacekowskiflashed it back13:20
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: you are using FT-94? (or whatever it's called)13:21
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: msg13:21
jacekowskimsg me as well13:22
abc_I installed scratchbox and when I write: sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list it says: bash: sudo: command not found13:22
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viszsudo apt-get install sudo13:22
khertan_n900Hi !13:22
viszno.. wait13:22
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* khertan_n900 just see from his stats of his repository that around 3500 users ask for update daily on his repository 13:23
jacekowskiit looks like cellmo firmware has asic version detection13:24
jacekowskiso it looks like it's same firmware across all phones/vrsions13:24
abc_visz: ok13:24
khertan_n900hum .... there is also everyday 150 which are still requesting update on the fremantle repository instead of fremantle-1.213:25
abc_visz: I follwed this:
jacekowskidoes Pearl mean anything to anybodyu13:25
thpX-Fade: i got a "promotion unlocked" mail for webradio-superfly, but it's not ready yet (only 4 votes) - is this a bug or just a one-time error?13:25
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viszabc_, try su -c apt-get install sudo13:25
X-Fadethp: 3 testers said it was ok then.13:26
abc_visz: bash: su: command not found13:26
viszuh oh13:26
keriokhertan_n900: what repo?13:26
kerioi didn't ask whose repo13:27
kerioi asked what repo13:27
kerioi see13:27
viszabc_, seems like you're on a floating device over a lake of organic matter without a method of propulsion13:27
abc_visz: after follwing the above link, when I /scratchbox/login then only sbox-> appeared, (unusual), so I did this: sb-conf st FREMANTLE_X86 -c cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486 -d perl:debian-etch:doctools:svn:git -t none13:28
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abc_visz:  ?13:28
khertan_n900hum ... 88 People have installed VectorMine 1.1.013:28
abc_visz: you mean I need to follow all the steps of manual installation also ?13:30
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you ever sent any data to that 3rd pin of FT-94?13:30
abc_visz: so better I uninstall and install again13:32
abc_visz: manually13:32
keriowhy does the cellmo needs a sign? :/13:33
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: not yet13:40
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i'm about to do so13:40
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: when i'll finish building my very very very very safe level shifter on my breadboard13:40
DocScrutinizerFT-94 is most most most likely correct about pins13:40
DocScrutinizermake sure it's *really* safe, you don't want to fry OMAP13:41
jacekowskihmm, it looks like rapuyama is omapbased13:41
jacekowskiwell, i might have already fried serial port13:41
jacekowskibecause i probably connected it to 12V13:42
DocScrutinizeryou bet it's dead then13:42
jacekowskiwell, omap survived13:42
jacekowskiso it might be something else that died13:42
jacekowskibut i had no time to test it13:42
DocScrutinizerit won't explode in one big cloud13:42
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jacekowskiwell, AVR ADC pin survived 24V13:43
jacekowskitrough 100 ohms resistor13:43
FireFlyfstab is autogenerated on bootup?13:43
jacekowskiFireFly: yep13:44
FireFlySo how would I do if I wanted to change something?13:44
jacekowskiso clamping diode on io pin had load of work to do13:44
jacekowskiFireFly: you don't13:44
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DocScrutinizerif only those BS ½@#ŋ”æ&%$ schematics were a LITTLE bit more verbose on what is going on with testpads. Also regarding tranzorbs for ESD etc13:44
FireFlyWhat is it generated by?13:44
jacekowskiwell, these pins are connected to serial on omap13:46
jacekowskiand omap will fallback to serial boot in case of wiped bootloader13:46
jacekowskiso i possibly could wipe it with x-rays13:46
jacekowskiand maybe see these tracks13:46
defraggerhi, does anybody already tested the mobilehotspot application?13:48
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TomaszDdefragger, use kernel-power kernel first and disable all connections before you start that application13:48
TomaszDcya guys13:48
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jacekowskitbh, rapuyama looks like generic arm + dsp13:54
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: it is13:56
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SmokeyDThis is weird. I have resize my MyDocs partition (/dev/mmcblk0p5) to make it 5GB and created an extra ext3 partition. If I manually mount that partition in /home/user/MyDocs/.maps/ then the partition has 22GB available space, as shown by df -h. But when I put the mount command ni /etc/event.d/rcS-late, so the partition is automounted at boot, df -h only shows 5GB available, instead of the proper 23GB. If I then unmount it again and mount it again, the13:59
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SmokeyDThe  MyDocs partition is of course /dev/mmcblk0p1 not /dev/mmcblk0p5 (that is the device of the new ext3 partition)14:00
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: hmm you might have problem with jrbme14:01
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it's reading some data from bme cal14:01
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DocScrutinizerwe knew that before14:02
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DocScrutinizerit's even writing there iirc14:02
DocScrutinizeryou found that weeks ago14:03
nedkohi, do you get BADSIG when updating from repositories?14:03
DocScrutinizerI'm not concerned about it14:03
jacekowskiit's messing with rapuyama power managment14:03
DocScrutinizerFSCK!  is down/gone. Was a nice page about rapuyama for you jacekowski14:04
DocScrutinizercan someone please explain to me the gibberish on
DocScrutinizerApache/2.2.11 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.11 OpenSSL/0.9.8e-fips-rhel5 mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/ Server at Port 8014:06
nid0its just an apache default page14:06
nid0means theres no content in the webserver folder that domain directs to, and apache has indexing enabled14:07
* DocScrutinizer hates internet :-P14:07
DocScrutinizernid0: thnx :)14:07
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ^^^14:08
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you got another link to that BBcellmo overview?14:09
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nid0DocScrutinizer: for what it's worth14:09
nid0all theyve done is move the forum out of the forum. subdomaibn14:09
nid0im guessing the thread you're looking for is14:10
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DocScrutinizernid0: \o/14:10
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: (rapuyama == arm + dsp) ^^^14:11
tybolltping crashanddie14:11
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what YAMA might be14:13
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DocScrutinizer~wtf yama14:13
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infobotGee...  I don't know what yama means...14:13
DocScrutinizerthought as much14:13
infobotthanks, DocScrutinizer14:13
infobotaw, gee, kerio14:14
tybollt~wtf crashanddie14:15
infobotGee...  I don't know what crashanddie means...14:15
jacekowskirapuyama has same pieces of code i saw in BME14:17
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jacekowskisame battery calculations14:17
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jacekowskihmm, it looks like all agps stuff is handled by rapuyama itself14:37
alteregoIs there any docs on rapuyama, I@don't actually know what you're on about :P14:39
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: maybe you find some interesting details there: post dated 12-04-2009, 14:16 in
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DocScrutinizeralterego: (I@don't actually know what you're on about) just hacking :-P14:39
alteregoSome one should try a fix via wifi and see what happens. The agps data has to be injected somehow ...14:40
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: moinmoin14:40
alteregoEllo MohammadAG5114:40
khertan_n900jacekowski: rapuyama this is not the name of a recipe for stew?14:40
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DocScrutinizeralterego: see my latest post to
povbotBug 8830: Dialer does not accept MMI codes (*#) from 3GPP TS 22.03014:40
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DocScrutinizersorry not that one14:41
povbotBug 7026: Can't get a GPS lock with several satellites at view14:41
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DocScrutinizerkhertan_n900: rapuyama is word for lobster in Finnish afaik14:42
khertan_n900haha a stew of lobster :)14:42
* Corsac mumbles something about ocsp servers not configured14:42
khertan_n900does there is a estimation of number of sold n900 in the world14:44
khertan_n900i 'm a bit surprize by the number of request i got on my repository ...14:44
khertan_n900i was thinking that dev tool should interest 1% or less of the n900 user14:44
DocScrutinizerkhertan_n900: seem to remember some rumble about 500k sold in first (3?) month(s)14:44
khertan_n900i was thinking that dev tool should interest 1% or less of the n900 users14:45
khertan_n900but if i extrapole 3500 * 100 = 3 500 000 n900 sold ?14:46
khertan_n900a bit huge :)14:46
DocScrutinizermaybe I'm wrong though14:46
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toggles_wkhertan_n900: n900 has 3500 friends on facebook ;-)14:46
alteregoDoesn't seem like an utterl!yridiculous number.14:46
DocScrutinizernah, may be in ballpark14:46
Corsacand 1% is a bit large imho14:46
khertan_n9003500 is the number of daily update request i got on my repository14:46
khertan_n9003500 is the rounded number of daily update request i got on my repository14:47
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jacekowskidoes anybody have any idea about glpals.com14:49
DocScrutinizersure, just find him14:49
jacekowskiit's assisted gps server14:49
jacekowskiwith ephemerides and stuff14:49
jacekowskibecause i found piece of code communicating with it14:50
jacekowskiin rapuyama14:50
jacekowskipiece of code dealing with gps is HUGE14:50
DocScrutinizeryou're sure it's used in normal operation mode of GPS on N900?14:50
keriowell, knowing where you are based on rotating lightbulbs in orbit isn't simple14:51
DocScrutinizerthat'd petty much explain my findings why AGPS doesn't work without registered GSM14:51
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DocScrutinizerkerio: NL5350 is designed to have low demand for CPU calculating power14:52
jacekowskiin code again14:52
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kerioport it for the main cpu14:52
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DocScrutinizerSOA ns1.gsmmou.org14:55
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DocScrutinizerserver doesn't ping14:55
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jacekowskithat's in gps related code14:56
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jacekowskisome info here14:57
Wolfiedo I have to use Ovi Suite to tether the n900 with my computer, or can I use it with the generic dial-up dialogue, offered by Windows?14:57
jacekowskiyeah, it's agps server14:57
ShadowJKI wonder if rapuyama has alot of cruft in it...14:57
Wolfiethe *99# connection string seemed to just hang14:57
kerioWolfie: i'd just use mobilehotspot14:57
TermanaHmm, interesting. Anyone care to explain why killing Xorg reboots Maemo? :P14:57
Wolfiekerio: i'm not comfortable with a custom kernel14:58
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jacekowskiTermana: it's critical app14:58
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ShadowJKWolfie, I've used generic dial up dialogue for tethering over bluetooth with windows xp.. I think the key thing is that a serial port appears that you can talk to14:58
jacekowskiTermana: you have to ask maemo nicely to stop it14:58
Corsacjacekowski: doesn't resolve either14:58
jacekowskixorg doesn't have watchdog14:58
WolfieShadowJK: the windows 7 does recognize the phone, probably a driver installed by ovi suite...14:58
jacekowskiShadowJK: what's a cruft?14:58
Corsacjacekowski: i tried AT&T mnc/mcc and won't resolve14:58
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WolfieShadowJK: or, it offers it as a connections method, alongside all the wifi hotspots14:59
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jacekowskiah nvm14:59
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jacekowskii've googled14:59
ShadowJKjacekowski, unused code14:59
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Termanajacekowski, nicely!? Does Maemo not realise who I am!! :P14:59
Corsacjacekowski: might be worth trying to resolve on 3g14:59
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: and you bet there's a butload of it14:59
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jacekowskiShadowJK: 5M binary15:00
jacekowskii'm just wondering how much spyware code is in there15:01
* ShadowJK wonders how similar it'd look to CS-15 firmware :-)15:01
Corsaccan we get our own imsi somehow?15:01
ShadowJK it's "just a modem"15:02
CorsacI mean, is there a way to access it15:02
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ShadowJKN900 was pretty much first nokia modem with 10M/2M support (or whatever it is), and CS-15 followed only weeks after, with similar modem specs, which made me suspect it's the same chip :P15:03
Wolfiebah, it just complains that PPP failed15:03
Corsacoh, mnc/mcc are reported by celltowerinfo anyway15:03
Termanajacekowski, So how do I ask Maemo to "nicely" kill Xorg?15:03
alteregoTermana: power button? :P15:03
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: you pinged me?15:04
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: nvm15:04
StskeepsTermana: type in 'iloveapple'15:04
Stskeepsand iphone os boots up15:04
Termanaalterego, Stskeeps, :P15:04
TermanaThank you very much for your help guys *rolls eyes*15:04
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Stskeepslook at upstart commands15:04
alteregoWell, whny do you want to stop it?15:04
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Termanaalterego, doing some testing and fiddling.15:05
SpeedEviljacekowski: you're dissasembling the modem fw?15:05
SpeedEviljacekowski: Or just the bit that talks to rapuyama15:05
ieatlinti'd be impressed if you dumped the modem's fw15:05
BactiusIs joikuspot only available through ovi store now?15:06
SpeedEvilmy favourite GPS tutorial that goes into quite a lot of depth15:06
Bactiusare/is hmm15:06
SpeedEvil(enough to make your own GPS from duct tape)15:06
keriowoot! duct tape!15:07
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jacekowskiSpeedEvil: rapuyama fw15:12
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jacekowskiTermana: stop X or something like that15:12
jacekowskiTermana: ls /etc/init.d15:12
jacekowskiTermana: one of this scripts there15:12
SpeedEviljacekowski: neat!15:13
jacekowskii wouldn't call it neat15:14
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SpeedEviljacekowski: A table of GSM commands supported would also be awesome.15:14
SpeedEviljacekowski: I would expect from random stuff that the rapuyama basically implements a 'soft modem' for GPS.15:14
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jacekowskiSpeedEvil: it's doing a lot more15:14
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: rapuyama can pull data from these servers and send it to gps chip15:15
SpeedEviljacekowski: There are several levels. A) The frontend chip is simply a RF stage that outputs a bitstream representing15:15
SwedeMikehas anyone followed and gotten it to work? I find the docs a bit contradicting when it comes to what APN should be entered where, and what APN I should connect to (v4 and v6 will be attached automatically), or the other way around. Using v6 one in connection manager gives connection error, using v4 one yields to gprs115:15
SpeedEvilok - if it's sending anything more than 'change frequency' or skew commands to the GPS chip, this can't be correct.15:15
jacekowskiwell, i'm not sure what is it doing yet15:15
jacekowskii found code pulling data from these servers15:16
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an0therb0xcan anyone tell me what the MMS internet connection is ? keeps getting in the way of getting online15:17
SpeedEviljacekowski: To recap - there are several possible levels the GPS chip might be doing. A) Simply decoding the RF, and running an A/D over the whole stream. The output is something like a 1 bit or 2 bit A/D output at 18Mbaud. This means that rapuyama needs to do all of the 'tuning' in software - everything is virtual, and the GPS chip cannot be meaningfully tuned per satellite.15:17
DocScrutinizeralterego: luke-jr jacekowski: GPS Time is kept as Weeks and Seconds (from Jan. 5 midnight/Jan. 6 morning of 1980.)15:18
jacekowskiwell, judging from amount of code that's dealing with gps15:18
jacekowskiit could be that option A15:18
SpeedEviljacekowski: B) The GPS chip can have onboard filters and correlators that lock to satellites, but just export this to the DSP. This offloads all of the ultra-hard-realtime from the DSP, but all of the nasty maths is in the DSP - it has to compute all the orbits.15:18
* RST38h moos evilly15:19
RST38hSooo, gentlemen, are there changes coming to the Nokia corpseland?15:19
jacekowskiwell, we can ask TI15:19
jacekowskiwhat's in that chip15:19
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alteregoDocScrutinizer: not in the stanza I decoded yesterday it isn't :P15:21
alteregoDocScrutinizer: though, internally in the cellmo it's probably being converted.15:21
jacekowskibtw. that battery related code i've found15:22
SpeedEvil - jacekowski - this is an example of some reverse engineering and overview of case B.15:22
DocScrutinizereven inside NL535015:22
jacekowskiit might explain why cellmo dies when bme is stopped15:22
ShadowJKit lives for me15:22
alteregoDoes it?15:22
SpeedEviljacekowski: is an example of class A)15:23
DocScrutinizercellmo dies on bme stop???15:23
RST38hShadowJK: BTW, I have run iostat for 8+ days now.15:23
SpeedEvilShadowJK: it dies on under 3vish15:23
jacekowskii'm not too worried about gps now15:23
RST38hShadowJK: Look at the logs does not show any apparent causes for the slowdown15:23
ShadowJKRST38h, what kind of params?15:23
RST38hShadowJK: But if you (or DocScrutinizer) want the log, I can give it to you for analysis15:24
RST38hShadowJK: dumping log every 5 minutes15:24
ShadowJKoh that's not very useful or interesting really15:24
RST38hShadowJK: What would you like to see instead?15:24
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DocScrutinizerswap statistics?15:24
ShadowJKConsidering the slowdown as rarely more than 2 seconds long, iostat every second is more useful15:25
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RST38hShadowJK: Won't be able to do that for 8 days :)15:25
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ShadowJKbecause then you'd see the peaks where utilization was at 100%, and a snapshot of stats from that particular traffic15:25
ShadowJKI'd expect avg-rq-sz goes down15:25
SpeedEvilI need to get working on my energy profiler15:25
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: what's up?15:25
SpeedEvilwhich does the above15:25
SpeedEvilToo little energy, too many projects.15:26
ShadowJKWell you wouldn't have to run it 8 days, you just need a "not slow" and a "jerky" snapshot :P15:26
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RST38hShadowJK: There is one very strange observation though15:27
RST38hShadowJK: For the swap partition, blks_wrtn is way way higher than blks_read, on the average15:27
RST38hShadowJK: Looks like it is writing swap madly but reading it rarely15:27
SpeedEvilthat's not surprising15:28
RST38hThat is with swappiness set to 3015:28
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SpeedEvilstuff gets swapped out that is rarely used15:28
SpeedEvilthere is a large subset of code/data that is never reused.15:28
ShadowJKWell it's kind of surprising in that you'd expect with swap caching effects stuff would be read more often than written15:28
RST38hYes, but you would expect it to swap it once and keep there, no?15:28
RST38hShadowJK: Exactly15:28
SpeedEvilRST38h: as I understad, it pushes to disk, but may retain it swap-cached.15:29
ShadowJKRST38h, what about kilobytes read/written?15:29
SpeedEvilthis means that it's only read if it's required, and if the page has been evicted from swap-cache15:29
RST38hShadowJK: That is blocks read/written, multiply by 4k and you get kb15:29
ShadowJKRST38h, iostat -m15:30
jacekowskirapuyama talks AT as well15:31
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jacekowskiproper at15:31
jacekowskiwell, we know that15:31
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ShadowJKmine after a day: Blk_read 1317712 Blk_wrtn 576456, MB_read 643, MB_wrtn 28115:32
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: dump a list!!!15:34
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RST38hShadowJK: Mine shows 645/47515:37
ShadowJKstrange :)15:37
ShadowJKoh wait15:37
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: accepted :-)15:38
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D-Iivil_WorkHello everyone.15:39
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jacekowskimy offsets are wrong again15:40
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D-Iivil_WorkX-Fade, ping15:43
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alteregoGod I' starting to hate tmo again.15:49
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alteregoIt got better for a while, but now after seeing that "exciting" news thread and such I'm feeling rather depressed again.15:49
D-Iivil_Workalterego, example? :D15:50
D-Iivil_Workalterego, oops, ment URL :)15:50
alteregonot that post in particular, i don't even know what it says :)15:52
D-Iivil_WorkHmm... received "promotion for extras unlocked" e-mails for 10 of my packages, but none of those is really promotable, server error is only that's been offered when hitting the "promote" -button :-P15:53
GAN900DocScrutinizer, pong?15:54
DocScrutinizerGAN900: moinmoin15:54
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alteregoHey GAN90015:56
alteregoOkay, I'm going to pick the coosest luser and attack ...15:58
alteregoclosest ...15:58
achipaD-Iivil_Work: ping X-Fade16:00
ruskie <-- hmm16:00
achipaI found a bug in the super-tester algo last night, so there might be a fix needed for the fix16:00
SpeedEvilHow does one apply to become a super-tester?16:01
DocScrutinizerwtf *is* a super-tester? XD16:01
SpeedEvilI was planning on going through 20-30 apps today, doing the basic functionality/powertop/... thing.16:01
lcukruskie, plenty of innovation around maemo16:01
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: It's a QA tester, that has been given the power of flight by nokia.16:02
* SpeedEvil needs to get his hoverboard built.16:02
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: please don't. We still need you16:03
SpeedEvilI lack the $60000 anyway.16:03
alteregoThe N900 is pretty much the reference platform for any R&D projects.16:03
alteregoBecause it's so easy to hack and mod ..16:03
ruskielcuk, the article and I guess the book are a good read imho16:03
alteregofcam for instance :)16:03
ruskielcuk, I have no issues with lack of innovation with the n900 ;)16:04
SpeedEvilIn some ways the docs are the most dissapointing part.16:04
ruskielcuk, the absence of symbian makes that rather obvious ;)16:04
SpeedEvilPointing out missing stuff that the community could do would be awesome16:04
SpeedEvilwould have been16:04
DocScrutinizerisn't it always the crappy docs?16:05
lcukruskie, there is plenty of innovation tho16:05
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* DocScrutinizer mumbles dbus16:05
SpeedEvilI am waiting to be able to install LiqOS on my n900.16:05
SpeedEvilThat will be so cool!16:05
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* ruskie considers dbus udev and other stuff a step backwards... but that's just me16:06
ruskieanyway I'm off16:06
lcukSpeedEvil, LiqOS hmmm16:07
SpeedEvilI'm unsure why dbus isn't in the kernel personally16:07
SpeedEvilOr at least core functionality like 'star' sockets16:07
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alteregodbus is desktop ..16:08
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: To more sanely anseer the question.16:08
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alteregoI'm not saying it wouldn't be useful in the core OS, but it is meant for desktop. I can't think of any server software that uses dbus. (enterprise server software)16:09
SpeedEvilSupertesters are worth three times what a normal tester is.16:09
SpeedEvilThey are assumed to have clue.16:09
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RST38hSpeed: you mean if I kill 4 supertesters I get 12 points rasther than 4?16:14
RST38hSpeed: are they hard to kill? Will BFG-9000 work?16:15
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lcukRST38h, supertesters only become visible on level 2 and above16:16
lcukand once you get through them, you reach the end of level boss ( andre__ )16:16
RST38hlcuk: that is ok16:16
RST38handre is tough indeed16:16
RST38hFBReader 0.10.7.-13 promoted to Extras16:16
jacekowskiwhere are these download graphs on
lcukRST38h, any idea why Russia would be so gaa gaa over the latest inverse AR video of mine16:18
lcukyoutube is showing russia as a strikingly different color to other countries16:18
RST38hlcuk: That's easy16:19
RST38hlcuk: A link has been posted to and probably to habrahabr.ru16:19
RST38hlcuk: Second one is like a Russian version of Slashdot so no wonder16:19
lcukahh and just because theres no real links elsewhere yet16:20
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lcukits just so different, click on the view count and see the breakdown
lcukRST38h, thanks though, i didnt know what the sites were cos I couldnt read the language16:20
lcukcool thanks16:22
SpeedEvillcuk: 4chan isn't real?16:23
lcuklol yeah ok16:24
lcukSpeedEvil, that thread was really amusing16:24
lcukthey even came up with a new word!16:24
lcuk>>The Magic must use magnets. How how do they work?????16:24
lcukITT Maemodynamics16:24
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alteregomagnets, modern magick16:28
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jacekowskiwhy does it still have some downloads?16:31
drizztbsdchromium is removed iirc16:31
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Arkenoidrizztbsd, why?16:38
SpeedEvilodd jae16:38
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fralsjacekowski: last download at like 6th of june?16:42
DocScrutinizerdl statistics as odd as it can get16:44
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SpeedEvilWere all versions pulled?16:50
SpeedEvilOr can you still download old versions?16:50
Arkenoi"he was head of Symbian user experience design"16:51
Arkenoioh no16:51
Arkenoi?The last job I had at Nokia was head of innovation and ?concepting? ? how to get ideas from concept into real products.16:52
kerio(what's wrong with user interfaces btw? why are they experiences?)16:52
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Arkenoi12 years with nokia communicators and every single one failed to become "real product". all were semi-usable "concepts" (though there was alost no competition so you stuck with it anyways)16:53
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SpeedEviluser experience differs from user interface in that it brings in externalities IMO.16:54
SpeedEvilFor example - if you have a nice shiny beautiful UI, that sucks from a UX POV - as it doesn't work just like the iphone.16:55
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Arkenoi?We went to the US with the E-series. Mary McDowell worked with that, but nothing happened, and it ramped down. So there is no Enterprise Solutions anymore. Nothing is managed. McDowell is so high level she doesn't know about the content and the substance.?16:58
ArkenoiSo Nokia gave up the enterprise? What a shame. It sucks.16:59
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lcukthats shockingly :( there are so many potential commercial applications and markets for devices \@/17:00
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Arkenoiif nokia had reasonable enterprise strategy they could easily beat shit out of RIM17:04
Arkenoieverywhere except maybe US and Canada17:04
keriowell, the US sucks17:04
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lcukArkenoi, everywhere no exceptions17:06
GAN900kerio, first hand experience there, I guess? :)17:06
kerioGAN900: O:)17:07
Arkenoii talked to many people about enterprise email solutions. they always tell me "there is Blackberry, it is easy to deploy". "Do you guys know that Nokia has enterprise email solutions and device provisioning as well? - Huh? Well, never heard of it, everyone just uses BB".17:09
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GAN900Nokia doesn't cater to the US market17:13
GAN900Nokia support in the US market sucks17:13
GAN900There's no advertising17:13
GAN900Updates for US devices come 6 months after the rest of the planet.17:13
alteregoWho decided to make the internet available to every idiot on the planet :(17:13
* alterego blames GAN900 17:13
GAN900Nokia doesn't poorly in the US because they're either too incompetent/lazy/misguided to do well.17:14
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ieatlintthey ran a number of n95-3 ads here back when that came out17:14
alteregoThey just don't like the US :P17:14
ieatlintbut yeah, that's about it :P17:15
TermanaWhy do you need the US when you've got Europe?17:15
ieatlintnot too easy to move a third of the way around the world and try to get a work visa17:16
GAN900Termana, because we've got money too?17:17
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GAN900And doing poorly in the US affects your perceptions--and, thus, stock prices--everywhere.17:17
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TermanaI said NEED, not WANT. Nokia might WANT more money from the US but they don't NEED it.17:17
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TermanaYes, well the US sucks. The US tries to export culture17:17
GAN900If their current performance is any measure, I'd say you're wrong.17:18
ieatlintnah, nokia made a huge blunder in the US17:18
GAN900OK then.17:18
GAN900ieatlint, just one?17:18
ieatlinti was on an nokia n80 phone back in 2006.. when the iphone hit in 2007, i had people showing me what "cool new features" their phone supported that mine had been doing for over a year17:18
RST38hArkenoi: The guy is talking some sense in the interview though17:18
RST38hArkenoi: Symbian or not, he makes sense17:19
GAN900Termana, the US doesn't TRY to export culture, it's just that it's successful and success tends to bleed over.17:19
ieatlinttheir advertising was a MAJOR fail, and they lost huge amounts of market share and money for it17:19
RST38hGAN900: ...and there are no other guys trying to export culture =)17:19
ieatlintand yeah, the US does export culture... want proof? look for a mcdonalds near you, or tell me what the last movie you saw was17:19
RST38hAlthough Japanese are starting to do very well lately ;)17:19
RST38hieatlint: Mine was Russian. So?17:20
* RST38h cackles sadistically17:20
GAN900Besides, exporting culture spreads peace and prosperity around.17:20
ieatlintRST38h: that's just sad17:20
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RST38hGAN: Not necessarily, I am afraid17:21
GAN900Bay Watch and McDonalds do more for spreading democracy than any UN stupidity. ;)17:21
alteregoGAN900: tell that to afghanistan17:21
GAN900RST38h, in the long wrong.17:21
GAN900alterego, tell them what?17:21
GAN900alterego, military isn't culture.17:21
alteregoThat spreading US culture spreads peace and prosperity ...17:21
RST38hGAN: You know, for example, where Russian teenagers learned the word "nigger" from? Take a wild guess ;)17:21
* ieatlint makes no such claim and quietly backs out of this conversation17:22
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RST38hGAN: and of course there is a lot more examples like that, I have just given you the most blatant one17:23
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ech0Asusi think we shouldn't try and spread our ideals on others.. as long as they aren't trying to kill me i have no issue with them.17:23
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ech0Asusbut if they kill us fuck it blow up their whole country and just be done with it17:23
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ech0Asusi think this whole playing nice thing is weak.. we should of just blow up all of the middle east and been done with it long ago.. no one would of cared.17:24
alteregoech0Asus: you'd punish a whole country mass murdering potentially millionsm because a couple of people want to hurt you? That's pathetic ...17:24
alteregoech0Asus: I think a lot of people would have cared.17:25
ech0Asusthey want us or them so give it to them17:25
ieatlinti think ech0Asus is right, let's take those texas fuckers out17:25
alteregoAnyway, no politics in #maemo please ...17:25
alteregoYou know the rules :P17:25
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ech0Asusour country is ran by pussies.. we should of blown them all up17:26
ieatlintbah, i'm an american, rules are for the rest of you17:26
GAN900RST38h, yes, because nobody was rascist before 1776? ;)17:26
alteregoech0Asus: seriously stfu17:26
GAN900ech0Asus, entangling foreign engagements.17:26
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GAN900ech0Asus, we don't need them.17:27
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Po0kye/w 1817:27
GAN900Anyway, point is, there's nobody to blame for Nokia doing poorly in the US but Nokia.17:27
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Kegetyslets blow up nokia, that seems to solve everything17:28
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lcukKegetys, GTFO theres no need for such talk, joking or not17:29
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Kegetyslcuk: nokia is more valuable than the whole middle east?17:31
akssps011If my application requires som external libraries for execution, are they required to be installed specifically in scratchbox even if they are already installed on my system ?17:31
GAN900Kegetys, it may depend on whether we get upper management in the blast or not. . . . :rolleyes:17:31
GAN900Kegetys, who's blowing up the whole middle east?17:32
lcukakssps011, scratchbox is a computer within a computer17:32
alteregoakssps011: yes, if you're compiling against them they need to be linked.17:32
ech0Asusi'd much rather prefer the quicker route then the long drown out route we've taken.. stick and move.. don't occupy..17:32
lcukyes, if dependencies are required inside, what you have outside is not taken into account17:32
alteregoakssps011: unless you're using dlopen :)17:32
Kegetysech0Asus seems to think it would be a good solution17:32
alteregoech0Asus: is an idiot racist.17:33
GAN900alterego, interesting conclusion.17:33
* GAN900 didn't realize "Middle Eastern" was a race.17:33
ech0Asusi'm not racist i just prefer quick direct action such as blowing up a good chunk of the middle east all together rather then this long drawn out bullshit were stuck in..17:33
alteregoThis is why we don't talk about politics here.17:33
alteregoGAN900: you're trolling :P17:34
akssps011alterego: lcuk: my app requires qt libraries and gpsd,(they are already on my system). So I need to install them in scratchbox also ?17:34
alteregoakssps011: yes17:34
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GAN900alterego, not, I just favor rationality in rejection of viewpoints one disagrees with.17:34
* lcuk wonders whether anyone ever listens ;)17:34
akssps011alterego: ah much work still to do then :)17:34
alteregoOkay, he sounds like a  racist :) because he sounds like a nazi nationalist.17:35
alteregoOr a texan ...17:35
ech0Asusim texan17:35
tybolltI'm not a racist - I hate everyone equally :)17:35
alteregoWell, there's my answer I guess.17:35
alteregotybollt: my sentiments17:35
ieatlinthaha, texan...17:36
ieatlintcalled that correctly17:36
jacekowskifuck yeah17:36
GAN900alterego, yeah, don't reveal your own bias so quickly. :)17:36
jacekowskiImage authentication OK17:36
ech0Asusthey assume we wont just blow them all up one day... they keep this shit up one of us texans will get back in power and we wont pussyfoot around like bush..17:36
alteregoGAN900: I thought it was popular knowledge the avg Texan is a racist homophobic nationalist.17:37
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GAN900alterego, and everybody from the UK is gay and has bad teeth?17:37
ech0Asussay what you want were just the ones with the balls to do what you aint man enough to do.17:37
ieatlintno, they're not all gay, but they do have terrible food17:38
alteregoGAN900: well, probably.17:38
TermanaAnd everyone from Australia says G'day Mate17:38
ech0Asuswe got an express lane to our death penalty we don't care here17:38
GAN900alterego, :P17:38
TermanaWait hold on that doesn't work... thats true! :P17:38
alteregoech0Asus: if go and do it then. Show the world your ballz.17:38
jogaI just read an article about Juggalos...I wonder why I recalled that right now17:38
GAN900alterego, anyway, my point is that broad-brush stereotype painting doesn't tend to serve anybody well. :P17:38
ieatlintjoga: haha17:39
ieatlinthow do magnets work, anyway..17:39
ech0Asusbush was weak17:39
Kegetyswhy didnt you blow him up17:39
Kegetyswould have solved it!17:39
jogathe reptilians don't need to rush things17:39
lcukGAN900, well once you start with the broad brush dissing everyone at nokia for not caring - then what are people to do17:39
alteregoGAN900: I agree. But ech0Asus is a stereotype :P17:39
GAN900joga, have you checked your chakras today?17:39
TermanaDon't we have something better to talk about than politics and blowing people up?17:39
jogaGAN900, I borrowed them to a friend17:40
ech0Asusshould of attacked harder and been done with it17:40
ech0Asuswas a weak compaign and has taken too long17:40
alteregoech0Asus: you went in as hard as you thought you needed too, it was the arrogance that meant you lost.17:40
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alteregoech0Asus: sign up then. Show people your balls.17:41
ieatlinti for one and truly thankful that i was not born in texas17:41
ieatlintbleh, am truly17:41
alteregoHah, agreed.17:41
ech0Asusyou can't change anything if you sign up then your just a tool17:41
GAN900lcuk, I dissed Nokia as a company.17:41
jogaoh, here's the article if anyone else wants to read it
GAN900lcuk, not every individual in said company.17:41
ech0Asusyou want to change something you have to be a politician17:41
GAN900lcuk, revisionism serves noone well.17:41
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ech0Asusi have respect for people who sign up. i have family there.. they can't change anything they are just a forced to be there..17:42
alteregoech0Asus: that's exactly what they want you to think. Who's the pussy, you or the olitician. Beacause it sounds like you're being a bit of a hipocrite ...17:43
lcukGAN900, then stop broad brushing a whole company - it upsets those that are trying hard to make a difference17:43
ech0Asusthey have to change it themselves.. we should of been gone until we leave they can't rebuild17:43
alteregoech0Asus: you shouldn't have gone in to begin with.17:43
jogabut that's not the agenda is it17:43
ech0Asusif they rebuild and come at us againt hen we blow them the fuck up again..17:44
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ieatlinti'm starting to think he's really just trolling17:44
ieatlintif not ... well, that's just sad17:44
jogainternet is often sad and full of dumb17:44
akssps011alterego: lcuk: When I run sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list, I get error: sudo: must be setuid root17:44
alterego911 was @tragedy, but the US is culpable for being so complacent about it.17:44
jacekowskiech0Asus: you've got a nigger president17:45
ech0Asusno we shouldn't of went to iraq.. but afghanistan we should of and we should of blown the shit out of it and then been gone17:45
akssps011alterego: lcuk: I run it in [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~]17:45
jacekowskiech0Asus: you're not allowed to say anything17:45
jogabtw, why do people say "should of" instead of "should have"17:45
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ech0Asusi didn't vote for him17:45
Kegetysisn't that what started it, making a mess of afghanistan during the cold war17:45
jacekowskijoga: that's not proper english17:45
toggles_wjoga: palin education17:46
alteregoech0Asus: why do you think you should have gone to afghanistan?17:46
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alteregoKegetys: exactly ...17:46
lcukakssps011, try fakeroot instead of sudo, scratchbox is not just a regular chroot, and you should be reading the dev guide17:46
lcukor even better17:46
jacekowskiech0Asus: do you know that only thing americans were able to prove to saddam was that his army killed 50 civilians17:46
lcukedit your source as user17:46
alteregoThe US general public don't even realise it's their own fault ..17:46
GAN900lcuk, the COMPANY clearly doesn't care.17:46
alteregoWell, their leaders fault.17:46
ech0Asusi said we shouldn't go to iraq jace..17:47
GAN900lcuk, I'm sorry you're working for a company that doesn't, but that's not really my problem.17:47
jacekowskiech0Asus: do you know that american army killed 10000x more civilians17:47
ech0Asusbin laden was in afghanistan17:47
GAN900lcuk, you should know I don't lump everybody in the same basket.17:47
Kegetysand who gave bin laden his power?17:47
ech0Asuswe let him escape17:47
alteregoech0Asus: Bin Laden is a cartoon character.17:47
GAN900jacekowski, the terrorist's have clearly succeeded, then.17:47
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alteregoHe's a fictitious leader your gov't used as a label to make you think that an organisation called Al Queda exists17:48
ech0Asusyou deny the existance of it?17:48
ech0Asuslol aight17:48
akssps011lcuk: ok, fakeroot worked :)17:48
ech0Asusthats very open minded17:48
GAN900alterego, denialism?17:48
alteregoHah, whatever ..17:48
ech0Asusi bet you deny the holocaust too huh17:48
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lcukech0Asus, Kegetys alterego ----------------------------------------17:48
lcuksubject change17:49
alteregoI'm going to make a sandwich ...17:49
lcukremember to use fakeroot17:49
Termanaalterego, sudo make me a sandwich17:49
alteregofakeroot make sandwich17:49
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GAN900lcuk, who's the guy who always jumps in to tell people not to blame Maemo Devices for the idiocy up top?17:51
jacekowskiGAN900: not really17:51
jacekowskiGAN900: terrorists only want to kill americans17:51
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GAN900jacekowski, is that a fact?17:51
jacekowskiGAN900: well, i don't have anythign against that17:52
GAN900jacekowski, I might ask France for their opinion on that one.17:52
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jogahave them pick between an american and a hatchet or 10 pounds of food and we'll see17:52
SpeedEvilWith a hatchet, you can always get 100 pounds of food from someone.17:52
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jogaok, the hatchet will break after one use ;)17:53
GAN900SpeedEvil, yeah, but top predators are full of heavy metals.17:53
joga(and the american will take it back unless you take it)17:53
jogas/take it/chop the american/17:53
infobotjoga meant: (and the american will chop the american back unless you take it)17:53
SpeedEvilGAN900: Especially lead, if you don't use a hatchet.17:53
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RST38hNice antiamerican flame you have got here.17:56
* RST38h goes for more popcorn17:56
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jacekowskiand they are stupid cunts17:58
GAN900The "Nokia has exciting news" thread has me on the edge of my seat17:58
GAN900jacekowski, classy.17:58
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RST38hWhat? News not exciting enough?17:58
GAN900jacekowski, shall I classify that as a personal attack?17:58
RST38hA bit too late, like 6 months too late? =)17:58
tybolltRST38h: that's fuinny comming from a ruskie :P17:58
RST38htybollt: I am well beyond national affiliations17:59
tybolltGAN900: what exciting news? Care to link me? :)17:59
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RST38hBut can always appreciate a good flame17:59
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GAN900RST38h, it's bound to end in disappointment.18:00
toggles_wGAN900: 1st meego device18:00
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GAN900I love Nokia's marketing18:00
GAN900They're so clueless.18:01
RST38hGAN: True18:01
RST38hBut they have to market SOMETHING, right?18:01
jacekowskidid i told everyone about my journey to US embassy18:01
tybolltGAN900: ta18:01
RST38hAnd by now, they have got some really psyched customers18:02
RST38hjacekowski: Were you shot at by the Marines?18:02
RST38hjacekowski: Have you got strip searched?18:02
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RST38hjacekowski: May we hope for an anal cavity search, maybe? =)18:02
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Venemohi guys!18:03
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jacekowskino, bitch there, without asking question, just decided that i'm not going to get a visa18:03
Venemowho is behind the facebrick app?18:04
GAN900I wouldn't give you a visa, either.18:04
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jacekowskiyou must be american then18:04
RST38hjacekowski: Some weird Pole, probably seeking to immigrate18:04
RST38hjacekowski: No visa for you. What if you marry an American?18:05
jacekowskihell no18:05
jacekowskitoo fat18:05
RST38hShit, what if you GIVE BIRTH to an American? Noo, you are not getting a visa.18:05
jacekowskii would rather jump off the bridge than give birth to american18:05
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Venemo~seen w00t_18:06
infobotw00t_ is currently on #maemo (5d 3m 45s) #meego (5d 3m 45s). Has said a total of 27 messages. Is idling for 19h 3m 1s, last said: 'ShadowJK: never mind, phones under £500 don't exist'.18:06
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RST38hThat good American gal who refused you a visa probably got promoted to a DHS supervisor just for filtering you out18:06
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* DocScrutinizer considers popcorn as well18:08
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derfShe didn't need to ask you questions.18:09
derfThe CIA already knows everything about you.18:09
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Corsacthey just idle here and log18:09
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JaffaWhat's the relationship between fcam and BlessN900? Since the latter seems to predate the former by a good few weeks but does everything I read in the "exciting" press release18:10
derfOf course, it being America, one wonders how anyone at the INS ever found out.18:10
RST38hJaffa: No relationship18:10
RST38hJaffa: Two different projects, one is a tool for making photos, another is a photo framework + a few sample tools18:10
RST38hINS is no more18:11
RST38hIt is BSCIS, part of DHC now18:11
RST38hDHS, sorry.18:11
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JaffaRST38h: That's what I suspected. Which makes the "exciting" even less exciting when someone did it themselves, without said framework, weeks ago.18:11
derfYou mean USCIS?18:11
RST38hYea, shit, I am forgetting those names18:11
derfWell, "BS" is probably appropriate.18:12
RST38hFor simplicity, let us just call them VROE18:12
tybollt GAN900: uhm wtf is that? Ok that seems like a fairly nice app - so what? What is the "exciting news"?18:12
RST38hWROE -> welfare recipient opportunity employer18:12
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RST38hJaffa: FCam is actually a more abitious project18:15
RST38hJaffa: With the right UI and all features under one app, it will make a killer camera app18:15
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alteregoRST38h: especially with plugin support and good UX with a polished look & feel.18:17
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GAN900tybollt, Nokia's marketing building up people up for no reason.18:17
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RST38halterego: I would prefer UI to plugins18:18
RST38halterego: there is still a limited set of things you can or need to do with photos18:18
alteregoYeah, if I was a more learned hptographer I'd probably have a go at that app myself.18:19
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RST38halterego: What prevents you? Writing an app has nothing to do with photography18:21
nid0well, it does18:21
RST38halterego: You know what settings are available there, and what algorithms. Present them to the user in the best way, and you have got a killer app18:21
alteregoI was sort of thinking that myself.18:22
DocScrutinizerJaffa: I found both blessn900 (0.29 and 0.31) and fcam being inferior to PR1.2 genuine cam18:22
alteregoAnd I do have a little knowldge in optics I wolrked in CCTV for Tyco for over two years :)18:22
DocScrutinizerlcuk talked me into doing a more comprehensive test on all three, eventually. preliminary results on ovi/joerg90018:23
lcukJaffa, RST38h DocScrutinizer - whatever the technical results, one thing is clear:  innovation and new principles are coming through.18:24
DocScrutinizeryep, no doubt18:25
lcukthe fcam project is the nicest imho, because it is open source18:25
RST38hlcuk: You are starting to talk like Texrat :)18:25
lcukblessn900 is a closed source port of another cam project elsewhere18:25
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lcukRST38h, GTFO18:25
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* RST38h feeds lcuk bacon18:26
Jaffalcuk: Indeed.18:27
lcukmmm bacon18:27
tybolltGAN900: Like "zOMG Apple is getting so much BUZZ out there - we need to do something - quick!"? :)18:28
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alteregoApple's buzz/noise is no new thing. It just all souunds like boring static to me.18:29
alteregoI don't actually understand how their marketting works. But I'm not a meerkattier.18:29
RST38htybollt: Rather "well, these are first guys i a while who do somethign new with n900, let us present them as a surprise"18:30
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alteregoRST38h: one of them is Nokia R&D18:30
alteregoThe project is pushed by Nokiia too.18:30
alteregoThey supplied hardware etc.18:31
alteregoMaybe even funding.18:31
RST38halterego: Nokia R&D is how they found out about the project, of course :)18:31
RST38halterego: If *you* did something like that, it would not be marketed by Nokia18:32
ieatlintoh god, this conversation is still going on?18:32
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tybolltRST38h: hehehe :)18:33
* slonopotamus doesn't understand what's going on18:33
flashnmy n900 just died18:35
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flashnor rather, cant get it too charge/boot up after charging18:35
flashnonly tried via USB though..18:35
flashnanyone had similar problems?18:35
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ShadowJKDid you leave it connected to pc?18:36
tybolltflashn: use the wall socket charger18:36
tybolltflashn: let it charge for ATLEAST two hours18:36
tybolltthen try to turn it on18:36
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flashnyeah, gonna try that18:36
flashnShadowJK, nope18:37
flashnmore like Im always out of battery so its probably just way-way drained18:37
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ieatlintas i recall, the phone can't boot without enough battery power to sustain the boot process... so definitely don't bother trying to turn it on18:38
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RST38hgive it power for 30 minutes or so then try booting again18:38
flashnthat didnt help, I have had it connected to my laptop for 1-2 hours now18:39
ieatlintis the charging led flashing?18:39
RST38hconnected it to the wall18:40
flashnyes, but irregulary18:40
flashnthanks, gtg18:40
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ShadowJKirregulary? any short flashes of the led? short, possibly dim blinks18:41
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tybolltsjk: there ought to be a led blink decipher diagram some place18:42
tybolltor is it praps regular morse code? ;-P18:43
ShadowJKit's just the the charger has direct connection to the LED through its stat pin, and will announce fault with a 200microsecond pulse, which can be seen on the led if you look for it18:44
ShadowJKcan be seen when you unplug charger18:45
ShadowJKthat'd be the "input undervoltage fault" blink ;p18:45
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toggles_w20 goto 1018:54
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DocScrutinizerflashn: forget USB. Use Nokia original wallcharger! charge for 30min, do NOT try to boot, after 30 min amber steady LED will go out -> replug charger to N900 and do another cycle (though usually should boot before first cycle finished)19:04
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DocScrutinizerflashn: irregular flashing of amber indicator most probably means your PC host got issues with charging the N900. It won't work anyway on flat battery, so use genuine charger!19:05
DocScrutinizern900 is not designed to recover from deep discharge on arbitraty power source19:06
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: hmmm19:07
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i found charging code in rapuyama19:07
DocScrutinizerneeds a decent usb dedicated charger compliant with most recent USB chaging supplement19:07
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: no wonder, rapuyama is designed for standalone systems, without any application processor or PMU/chargerchip19:08
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DocScrutinizeryou'll probably even find videodrivers19:08
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: and code is direct copy&paste from bme19:11
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: or other way round19:11
DocScrutinizerMUHAHAHA lol19:11
jacekowskithat's why rapuyama needs BSI19:12
DocScrutinizerthe most funny case of c&P coding and cargocult implicit I heard of for years19:12
DocScrutinizerI'd bet it's cellmo=father bme=son19:13
DocScrutinizertoldya I heard bme is like 10 years old19:13
DocScrutinizerfull of cruft19:13
jacekowskibtw. strings on that code will reveal some other shit as well19:13
DocScrutinizerand generally nobody knows what's going on in it19:13
jacekowskilike names of all networks19:13
DocScrutinizernetworks like in...?19:14
jacekowskithat sort of19:14
DocScrutinizerduh, that's lame19:14
DocScrutinizerI knew there are like 3 or 4 sources of network name, modem firmware just one of them19:15
jacekowskithere are couple more things19:15
DocScrutinizerthen you usually got a table in userspace as well, and network itself sends 2 versions every once in a while: shortname and fullname19:16
kerioold technology... tsk tsk19:16
DocScrutinizerkerio: gsm is like >20 years old19:17
kerioand thus needs a whole subsystem of crust19:17
DocScrutinizeryou bet it does19:17
jacekowskioh yeah19:17
jacekowskibt stac19:17
jacekowskibt stack**19:18
DocScrutinizeryou'll also find USB stack and drivers19:18
keriolet's run everything on it19:18
jacekowskiyeah, but that's used19:18
keriodisable the main cpu19:18
kerioawesome powersaving19:19
DocScrutinizerbtw those are *probably* even in use, as I guess some of the testpoints are LV-USB to rapuyama19:19
jacekowskithat wouldn't be bad idea19:19
jacekowskii mean like mosixlike thing19:19
jacekowskiso when there is no requirement for loads of processing power everything is moved to rapuyama19:19
jacekowskiand main cpu powered down19:19
jacekowskiand back when more power is requried19:20
DocScrutinizerwe thought about that on FR19:20
achipaJaffa: bless is closed, fcam is FOSS19:20
DocScrutinizeralas the ARM cores are incompatible, and so is the OS19:20
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: virtualisation19:20
jacekowskiand rapuyama is omap based19:20
* DocScrutinizer cackles19:21
jacekowskiso it has to be compatible19:21
jacekowskii found smartreflex drivers19:21
DocScrutinizernot too sure about that19:21
jacekowskiunless rapuyama controlls other omap chip19:21
jacekowskibecause omap chips are only chips with smartreflex19:21
DocScrutinizerI'd expect it to be a much smaller CPU ARM core, with 'older' instruction set19:22
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jacekowskiexplain smartreflex drivers then19:22
DocScrutinizerOMAP doesn't mean cortex-A819:23
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povbotBug 14223: was not found.19:23
jacekowskiwell, it's compatible enough19:23
* timeless_mbp sighs19:23
mgedmindidn't they buy new servers like last year?19:23
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: what's wrong with solaris?19:23
mgedminit shouldn't take 15 seconds to log in and display the news page19:24
timeless_mbpthe sad thing is, that a 1 character change change took 6 months19:24
jacekowskiok, now it's time to pray19:24
timeless_mbpwhich is still 3x faster than the time it'd take here @nokia19:24
timeless_mbpand that's if it gets fixed at all19:24
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* DocScrutinizer shouts for a virgin to sacrifice19:24
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jacekowskitime to hack some serial19:26
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: heh, starhash got 'official' Nokia ITSFIXEDNOW approval, so what do you complain about XP19:26
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timeless_mbpwhat's starhash?19:26
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DocScrutinizerbug #883019:27
povbotBug Dialer does not accept MMI codes (*#) from 3GPP TS 22.03019:27
akssps011I tried apt-get install libgps-dev in scratchbox, but it says couldn't find package.. the same works fine outside scratchbox. How can I resolve this ?19:27
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DocScrutinizerbtw could "someone" please fix that friggin cert on I mean you know it'll expire one day, didn't you?19:28
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: ^^^19:28
TomaszDgood day again19:29
GAN900DocScrutinizer, like I said yesterday. It's a not-so-subtle hint that it's not worth your time to file bugs. :P19:29
DocScrutinizernevertheless I found it funny Naba Kumar  (Nokia)   announced starhash on ticket 8830, not me19:30
DocScrutinizerso maybe not completely worthless19:31
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akssps011So, do I need to add any repo to sources.list (I am using kubuntu 10.04) for scratchbox given the face that the package I am trying to install is in repository19:32
akssps011Can anyone advise on that ?19:32
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crashanddie_GAN900: the simple fact that anyone would let a certificate expire is quite scary though19:33
alteregoOh my that was horrible19:33
crashanddie_GAN900: don't Nokia do stuff like security and stuff?19:33
GAN900crashanddie, mmm19:34
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alteregoJust had my abscess "lanced" ..19:34
alteregoI feel about 2 pounds lighter19:34
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GAN900alterego, why the hell are you keep an abcess?19:34
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alteregoThere was blood, puss, guts, screaming. I thought people were dying19:34
crashanddie_GAN900: I'll be pissing myself when the repo certs expire :P19:34
alteregoI've only had it a few days.19:34
alteregoBut the antibiotics weren't bringing it down enough. So I went in today to get it drained.19:35
alteregoAs I can't really operate feeling like I've got a golf ball in my mouth19:35
GAN900alterego, well, hopefully you feel better soon.19:35
crashanddie_why do you need "to get it drained"?19:35
crashanddie_just stick in a needle in and push19:35
alteregoI literally walked out the dentist five minutes ago, still got the guass in my mouth19:36
crashanddie_GAN900: can I make you jealous about my ISP, just a tiny bit more?19:36
GAN900crashanddie_, dunno, I got 40/5 at home.19:36
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crashanddie_GAN900: I have a static IP at home, which kinda sucks when watching things on megavideo and stuff19:36
crashanddie_GAN900: but, they launched a "sharing service" where I can log in to other networks using a personal identifier (so, if I'm somewhere in the city, and need to connect, I can)19:37
crashanddie_now, here's the beauty19:37
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crashanddie_I can connect to my own access point, using those codes... And everytime I do, I get a brand new IP address, session-based :D19:37
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crashanddie_but that's not all. I can watch 300 TV channels, as soon as I'm connected to the access points. And as soon as I have wifi, I call for free :)19:39
crashanddie_Heck, I can rip buffy the vampire slayer in russian with polish subtitles using my n900!19:39
DocScrutinizerbut: does it blend??19:39
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crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: $5k+ thanks to the bidding wars between the three companies. Fourth company coming into play too.19:40
DocScrutinizeryou're in a mood to make everybody hate you today?19:41
crashanddie_oh yes :)19:41
crashanddie_It's my clarkson-face.19:42
khertan_n900Hi Again !19:42
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khertan_n900does it s me ? or there isn t any good todo apps for n900 ?19:43
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khertan_n900I ve the feeling there is less and less dev talk on mailing list, forum, irc ...19:46
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: congrats anyway19:50
Myrttikhertan_n900: Lynoure was making one19:50
peb_hi Khertan, why not SSH to your (home) server and using the script from lifehacker/Gina there? That's what I'm doing ..19:51
khertan_n900hum ? did you have a name ?19:51
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* mgedmin is using Conboy for his todos19:59
mgedminor not using it, more often19:59
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: how goes BME replacement?20:11
luke-jrgetting bme_RX-51 running in Gentoo seems not easily done20:12
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DocScrutinizeryou bet it's not20:12
DocScrutinizerhal-addon-bme (for bat chrge state etc) not even planned. For charging you found a script written by pancake that should do for now20:13
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MohammadAG51same goes for ubuntu20:13
MohammadAG51indeed, it only needs a led indicator and a USB detection part20:13
MohammadAG51first part was taken care of, i'll youtube it later20:14
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DocScrutinizerI'm idly about to throw together some bits respeting that20:14
MohammadAG51basically, 0-255-0 for all LEDS20:14
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: I thought you wrote it?20:14
MohammadAG51didn't you?20:15
DocScrutinizersarcasm doesn't perform well on IRC20:15
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luke-jrit's ok20:15
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luke-jrif my battery explodes, I'll flatten the pancake instead of you20:15
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: no worries, won't happen20:16
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: any idea on getting Ofono working too?20:16
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DocScrutinizerno (not yet?)20:16
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DocScrutinizerprobably will support FSO instead :-P20:17
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DocScrutinizerthe middleware framework which ofono refused to pick up / join / collaborate as they claimed "it's just a stupid way to talk AT to modem" OWTTE20:18
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DocScrutinizer(now it seems like trophy for limited functionality / scope is clearly awarded not to fso)20:19
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DocScrutinizerwhen I asked in #meego-meeting about evaluation and decision oFono vs FSO, I was told "we'll stick with oFono for first release, you're free to contribute with patches later, to improve architecture". So meh20:24
DocScrutinizerNIH screwit20:25
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alteregoWhat's FSO?20:29
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SpeedEvilOn GSM.20:30
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dos1alterego: aka "better oFono which was already there before oFono" :P20:30
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dos1btw, i can't find any proper documentation to oFono's dbus API20:31
dos1only txt files in git repo, which suck in readability20:32
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: well, if FSO's git worked, it sounds like they have data working, which is all I need...20:32
alteregoIsn't ofono telepathy?20:33
luke-jrtelepathy is middleware20:33
luke-jrI wish someone had a good telepathy client20:34
luke-jrat the current rate, I'm going to have to write one :P20:34
alteregoIt's too fluid to nail down :/20:34
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luke-jrTelepathy-Qt4 includes an example apparently capable of video calls20:35
luke-jrso it might not be too hard20:35
alteregoHeh, so's idea of docs is a system overview diagram? :D20:35
dotblankis the wiki running really slow?20:36
Robot101alterego: what do you mean fluid?20:36
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Robot101harden the fsck up - most telepathy changes for the past 3-4 /years/ have been additive20:36
luke-jralterego: that's what I said :p20:36
alteregoRobot101: moving about like a fidgitty kid20:36
Robot101if anything we're /too/ stable20:36
luke-jralterego: their git code *does* have some minimal docs tho20:37
Robot101we need to deprecate a bunch of stuff20:37
alteregoAt least that's what I see telepathy, the interesting parts are changing20:37
Robot101the spec is not minimal, it's too long :P20:37
alteregoMost of the examples don't work because things have changed and no one bothered to update the examples.20:37
alteregoSo the example code and docs aren't always in sync20:37
luke-jrRobot101: the thing that annoys me about Telepathy is the glib dependencies >:O20:37
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luke-jrI don't *want* glib *installed*20:38
alteregoluke-jr: why not? glib is cool :P20:38
Robot101ofono uses glib, you need to, er, get over it. sorry. :P20:38
lcukluke-jr, i am surprised you even use a computer20:38
luke-jralterego: glib is garbage20:38
alteregoSymbian has glib :)20:38
luke-jrRobot101: FSO?20:38
alteregoluke-jr: how is it garbage?20:38
luke-jralterego: it's part of the GTK/GNOME stack20:38
Robot101you do realise python can't even use d-bus without glib?20:38
alteregoluke-jr: it's the base of the stack20:38
luke-jrRobot101: Python is crap too20:39
Robot101FSO is Python20:39
alteregoluke-jr: don't bring desktop wars into this20:39
luke-jralterego: it's got a slow select loop20:39
* Robot101 might take felipec's approach to this conversation actually20:39
alteregoluke-jr: then use select ..20:39
luke-jralterego: and it hijacks C20:39
Robot101luke-jr is a known and effective g* troll20:39
luke-jrFSO is Python??? wtf? :(20:39
alteregoBit stupid if you ask me.20:39
Robot101telepathy is primarily a d-bus API - if you want to not use glib please write new backends in Qt20:39
Robot101we're happy to help20:39
alteregoI like gnome, and I don't like KDE, but I don't mind Qt.20:39
alteregoAnd Qt is much larger than glib.20:40
luke-jrRobot101: D-Bus originated with Qt/KDE20:40
Robot101meanwhile, we have about 30 man years' worth of investment which is might be actually more useful to use than talk unmitigated bullshit on IRC20:40
luke-jrQt is much saner than glib20:40
Robot101D-Bus originated with RedHat20:40
luke-jrRobot101: yes, that's why I'm putting up with glib :/20:40
alteregoluke-jr: that's bullshit20:40
* slonopotamus thinks luke-jr messes up glib with gobject20:40
Robot101anyway, I'm out of this conversation, luke-jr has tricked me before20:40
luke-jrRobot101: D-Bus has its roots in KDE's DCOP20:40
Robot101have fun kids20:40
Stskeepshave a good evening, Robot10120:40
luke-jrslonopotamus: gobject is part of glib20:40
slonopotamusgobject is crap :)20:40
alteregoglib is tiny, does small abstractions, Qt Core contains stuff that should be in Qt Gui ..20:41
alteregoBad abstraction ..20:41
slonopotamusluke-jr: it's separate shared object. so you can use glib and not use gobject20:41
alteregoBut I still like it ..20:41
luke-jralterego: let's all move to liqbase20:41
lcukwe all have an appendix, even nature cannot get abstractions right20:41
luke-jrslonopotamus: I can't mask gobject without masking glib20:41
slonopotamusalterego: tiny??? its equal to glibc in size20:41
lcukluke-jr, patches welcome! :D20:41
alteregoblah blah blah, we make do with what we've got.20:42
alteregoIf you don't like it, then do something else that's better, and boy, it better be better or you'll just be wasting your time.20:42
luke-jralterego: I would, if I had time. :)20:42
luke-jrbut I don't have time, so glib is a battle I lose20:42
luke-jrI can accept that, though I won't be happy about it20:42
alteregoAnyhow, they're not exactly comparable, glib caters for C, Qt caters for C++20:42
alteregoglib was designed to allow the easy binding of other languages to gobjects OOP model.20:43
alteregoQt wasn't.20:43
alteregoSo, I guess there are issues with forces too.20:43
luke-jrQt is a language of its own20:43
alteregoI do like what it does to C++20:44
slonopotamusluke-jr: to be honest, C++ is crap.20:44
alteregoAll languages are crap, when used out of context.20:45
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luke-jrslonopotamus: sure20:45
luke-jrI like C and Qt, but not the intermediate C++20:45
derflcuk: The appendix is actually useful.20:46
lcukand so is glib :P20:46
MohammadAG51i dropped my N900 yesterday and now the slider has a small gap20:47
alteregoMohammadAG51: :(20:48
alteregoDo you have insurance?20:49
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MohammadAG51nope, it's not bad, till i f with it20:49
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lcukMohammadAG51, :(20:49
TomaszDI've had my n900 go through at least for 4x4 racing events, it had dirt in it, a couple of dents and scratches, but works fine still :)20:49
lcukyou mean its off its rail20:49
lcukdoes it slide correctly?20:49
MohammadAG51mine? yeah20:49
MohammadAG51it's normal20:49
MohammadAG51but it moves 1mm or so20:49
lcukoh, mine does that20:50
lcukthe screen does not actually align properly anymore20:50
lcuki dropped it playing n900fly20:50
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slonopotamuslcuk: how unexpected!20:50
lcukhiya igagis \o ltns20:50
DocScrutinizerRobot101: FSO is not python, it's vala20:50
lcukslonopotamus, i started wrapping it in a sleeping bag after that20:50
lcuki think i got about 3.5 metres or something20:50
alteregolcuk: omfg you played that?20:51
alteregoI thought that was the most retarded idea for an app I've ever heard ..20:51
igagislcuk hi20:51
slonopotamuslcuk: it needs public website with top throwers listed, i think20:52
igagislcuk what is "\o ltns"? :)20:52
lcuk"\o" == me waving hello20:52
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lcukltns == long time no see20:52
Wolfiewaving hand, and "long long time no see"?20:52
slonopotamus\o ??? oh my, head is empty :/20:53
igagislcuk ah, yeah20:53
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: wtf is vala20:54
DocScrutinizerFSO is written in Vala, a modern object oriented programming language that compiles to C – thus giving you the maximum performance.20:54
slonopotamusluke-jr: vala is just another crap, don't worry20:54
slonopotamusluke-jr: it is based on gobject20:55
luke-jrI'll stick to Ofono I guess20:55
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timeless_mbplcuk:  so20:56
DocScrutinizermhm, because C is worse than glib?20:56
timeless_mbp — don't try this at home if you don't have an official n900 :(20:56
* timeless_mbp got a boot loop20:57
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: gobject is glib20:57
slonopotamusluke-jr: btw. don't you use kde? it has hard dep on glib20:57
DocScrutinizerwho said gobject?20:57
slonopotamustimeless_mbp: there are unofficial n900s?20:57
alteregoI thought you could do glib without gobject ..20:57
lcuktimeless_mbp, you havent got an official n900?20:58
alteregoThat is, you don't need gobject to do glib ..20:58
luke-jrslonopotamus: no, it doesn't.20:58
timeless_mbplcuk: it's allocated to a real person20:58
lcukyou are not real?20:59
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timeless_mbpno, i'm a cog working for an employer20:59
slonopotamusluke-jr: willikins says kscreensaver and system-settings do.20:59
timeless_mbpwho doesn't believe i have real feelings or anything20:59
lcukok, timeless_mbp onto the real thing20:59
lcukipv6 !!!20:59
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DocScrutinizerLOL @ DSMIPv620:59
lcukthere were hushed rumours and desires about wanting complete stack at fosdem21:00
luke-jrslonopotamus: KDE is bloat too21:00
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: ?21:00
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* alterego raises hand ( :P )21:01
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timeless_mbpthe ipv6 trial is available to anyone w/ an n900 afaict21:02
alterego(believes you don't have real feelings)21:02
alteregoI think you're a robot.21:02
timeless_mbpi sent an email from timeless@gmail21:02
timeless_mbpand got an account21:02
alteregoipv6 trial?21:02
timeless_mbpit's an ipv6 stack for the n90021:03
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: modprobe ipv621:03
timeless_mbpwhich has an interesting PoP in ca.us21:03
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timeless_mbpluke-jr: w/o an interesting PoP, there's no real way for me to figure out if it's doing something useful21:03
luke-jr64 bytes from 2001:41c8:0:854::16: icmp_seq=1 ttl=58 time=305 ms21:04
timeless_mbpuseful = using browser ;)21:04
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luke-jrwell if the browser doesn't use it, that's *your* fault :P21:04
timeless_mbpaccording to their page it should work21:05
timeless_mbpand from memory we didn't disable ipv621:05
timeless_mbptoo much effort, no gain21:06
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timeless_mbpunless you count complaints from people who enable ipv6 that the browser doesn't work as a gain21:06
* timeless_mbp most certainly does not21:06
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* timeless_mbp heads out21:06
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luke-jrIPv6 should always be enabled21:07
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DocScrutinizerI'll use a PoP in USA the day when hell freezes21:09
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fluxparticularly 'mobile' is the interesting bit of the previous url, no?21:10
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fluxI thought mobile ip was buried these days, haven't heard of it for a while21:10
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alteregoSo they don't have it for Symbian? :D21:11
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fluxbut it would be nice to have. I have similar capabilities by using vpn, but of course that's not as optimal as working mobile ip would be.21:11
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DocScrutinizerWhat can you do with this client installed21:17
DocScrutinizer4. You can browse US only web sites like since the MN is acnhored via an HA located in the US21:17
DocScrutinizer99. You can have lots of fun with US legislation an civil jurisdiction, like e.g DMCA, homeland security, younameit21:17
fluxthey don't appear to provide home agent21:17
fluxso I'm not sure how real mobile ip are we talking about, if you don't have multiple home agents21:17
fluxso it's basically the same as a vpn-based solution..21:18
* RST38h moos evilly21:19
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* DocScrutinizer waits for Nokia and Google comparing on first onion server21:20
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DocScrutinizers/first/who's got first one21:21
DocScrutinizerlemme try again21:21
* DocScrutinizer waits for Nokia and Google competing on who's first to get his onion server up and running21:21
Venemo_what is an onion server?21:22
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fluxI guess they refer to something like tor21:22
* alterego puts on his hat ...21:22
alteregoI've got an idea. A BUNION SERVER!21:22
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chadiis there packet injection on some custom kernel or not yet?21:24
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DocScrutinizerseems doesn't work with chipset21:25
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* alterego wonders if this month Vodafone will start charging him ..21:26
alteregoLast month I used up 10.759G of data ...21:27
steinexalterego: why?21:27
steinexi actually wonder the same -.-21:27
alteregoWell, I'm on unlimited data contract, but they're removing that.21:27
DocScrutinizeralterego: they got some fair use policy, no?21:27
steinexi se21:27
alteregoSo I've been expecting them to change things soon.21:27
alteregoDocScrutinizer: yeah, My monthly average is probably 10-15G21:27
alteregoHad this contract for about 15 months21:28
DocScrutinizertoo high I guess21:28
DocScrutinizerwonder how you manage to eat 15G21:28
alteregoDocScrutinizer: well, they've not complained to me yet. I've just heard a lot of people getting phone calls about being moved onto a 1G contact21:28
alterego1G capped, they're removing FUP apparently.21:29
DocScrutinizerFUP is something like "don't use >5G for >2 consecutive months"21:29
alteregoWell, I've easily exceeded that ;)21:30
alteregoThe thing is this is my home internet connection.21:30
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DocScrutinizerover 3G? o.O21:30
alteregoI get about 2 sometimes 2.5 megabit21:30
DocScrutinizer3G router? or mobile internet dataplan?21:31
alteregoIt's just part of my mobile contract, 600 minutes, unlimited texts, unlimited internet.21:31
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alteregoSo my N900 is my mobile and my modem :)21:31
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h4xordoodheya :) finally i buyed n90021:34
DocScrutinizerso they will eventually ask how you manage to blast 15G thru that SoC and do reasonable things with it21:34
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Venemo_hey h4xordood21:34
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Venemo_do you like it?21:34
h4xordoodyeah :)21:34
h4xordoodi am thinking why i waited21:35
DocScrutinizerprepare for this to change :-)21:35
mortiniheh. yeah.21:35
DocScrutinizereither you LOVE it in 4 weeks or you are disappointed21:35
h4xordoodhey i am trying running java app21:36
h4xordoodinstall icedtea621:36
DocScrutinizerfor me N900 is best thing since sliced bread, and I built similar devices before I got the N90021:37
alteregoDocScrutinizer: the contract was actually for an N96 ;)21:37
mortiniDocScrutinizer: eh, i'm kind of in between, some thing i like (that i have a commandline to do stuff) and some things i hate (the mail client blows)21:37
h4xordoodits just awsome21:37
alteregoI took out another contract for the N900, which my girlfriend uses, I just swapped sims (internet obviously)21:37
mortinijust using telnet and raw imap commands would be better than modest.21:37
alteregoh4xordood: glad you like it :)21:38
alteregomortini: well do that then.21:38
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DocScrutinizermortini: :-P21:38
DocScrutinizermortini: at least you're free to do that21:38
mortinisorting email is so 1990's21:38
mortinii actually started writing my own :P21:38
h4xordoodeven i want to learn development on this21:38
Venemo_h4xordood: see Nokia Qt SDK21:39
h4xordoodvennemo altergo  :)hey21:40
chadiDocScrutinizer: neopwn have a fully working packet injection, they patched the wlan drivers on their kernel21:40
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DocScrutinizerchadi: damn, so they did it?21:40
h4xordoodi am trying to run agent from mail.ru21:41
chadiDocScrutinizer: they have a "teasing" video on their website21:41
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h4xordoodneed to tlk with friends in russia21:41
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h4xordoodbut after install icedtea621:42
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Venemo_what is icedtea6?21:42
h4xordoodi did java -jar file.jar21:42
dannymVenemo_: Java21:42
h4xordoodicedtea6 is java21:42
Venemo_java runtime for the N900?21:42
h4xordoodopen jdk21:42
akssps011I am not able to install anything in scratchbox using apt-get install. How do I resolve this ?21:42
Venemo_sounds good21:42
Venemo_does it run java applets in the browser, too?21:43
DocScrutinizerakssps011: resolv.conf I think21:43
dannymakssps011: is there any error message?21:43
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akssps011DocScrutinizer: dannym: it only says: Reading package lists... Done21:44
akssps011Building dependency tree... Done21:44
akssps011E: Couldn't find package libgps-dev21:44
h4xordoodi havent tried yet :) ve21:44
dannymakssps011: try adding more repositories21:44
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dannymakssps011: (for example in the graphical package manager)21:44
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* DocScrutinizer dissolves into his beloved cloud of sulfur21:44
akssps011dannym: how ?21:45
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dannymakssps011: edit /etc/apt/sources.list to be like this:21:45
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dannymakssps011: (like on the page at <>)21:46
akssps011dannym: ah, no ubuntu repo in it. that's the problem. thanks :)21:46
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dannymhmm, can someone try to compile <> in scratchbox (with gcc -c)? For me, that makes use up 100% cpu and 1GB ram and it never finishes O_o - but works fine outside of scratchbox21:52
mgedminC++ is a fine language, ain't it?21:53
mgedminthey must be laughing there in hell21:53
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DocScrutinizerheard one of the c++ gurus "there's probably 3..5 really competent c++ coders in this world"21:56 using 100% CPU you f*ing what:?21:56
dannymalterego: well, it does. Don't ask me what it needs the linker for when I do "gcc -c", but hey...21:57
dannymDocScrutinizer: heh :)21:57
dannymalterego: at least it is correlated. When I start "gcc -c", shortly afterwards, "" appears in "top". When I Ctrl-C it (works), then "" disappears from "top"21:59
dannymprobably one of these weird backdoor-in-the-compiler thingies :->21:59
alteregoOh, you mean 'ld' ..22:00
alteregold is the linker22:00
dannymI know :)22:00
dannymso what is it doing linking when I tell it to compile (and explicitly, too)22:00
RST38hDoc: C++ gurus ought to be exterminated with extreme prejudice22:01
RST38hDoc: Personally, I would like to start with the guy who came up with STL.22:01
* DocScrutinizer wonders idly whether to aim promotion to extras for *#-ena22:01
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SpeedEvil - not worksafe site - mostly worksafe page. Sort-of-ontopic.22:02
DocScrutinizerlo SpeedEvil22:02
RST38hSpeed: nasty22:02
RST38hwhy have they taken the apple from Jobs' hand?22:02
DocScrutinizerI particularly like Steve's halo22:04
RST38hBill's is better22:04
RST38hlooks like it can be used for targe practice22:05
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DocScrutinizer"...want to take an apple and smash this window" - neat22:21
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keriosticky mod keys are annoyingly inconsistant22:23
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kerioi have è, mute grave accent, à and mute acute accent on the same key22:24
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kerioas key, shift+key, fn+key and fn+shift+key22:24
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keriobut pushing shift and then pushing è gives me È22:24
RST38hTheir latest creation, called The End of History, is a 110 proof beer that comes packaged in a variety of small stuffed animals.22:25
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merlin1991can it be, that the wiki is down?22:28
Venemokerio: for me, Fn+Enter = Ú22:28
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Venemokerio: and the Sym key is not sticky for the enter key22:29
merlin1991I dunno, whenever when I need it the wiki is down, same goes for the freakin debian page22:30
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microlithman, a new battery makes a world of difference22:33
luke-jrthere, got a strace for sscd to GPS+gprs22:35
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WizzupDoes maemo have an audio recording with vox? (voice operated switch)22:53
WizzupSo it only records when the sound is above a certain level22:53
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corecodeas what would my micro sd card usually show up?22:54
corecodeand how do i find out what's wrong with it?22:54
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lbtX-Fade: is the wiki dead?22:57
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jacekowskiyep it is23:00
jacekowskicouple hours now23:00
jacekowskibut it looks like it's some sort of overload23:00
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FredrIQwhen i run ssh23:01
FredrIQand type some command23:01
FredrIQa "+ (command)" is displayed before any output23:02
FredrIQand this is also shown when it runs autorun-scripts (/etc/profile, etc)23:02
jacekowskiit's probably pront23:02
FredrIQ[~]$ hejsan23:02
jacekowskibut make a screenshot23:02
FredrIQ+ hejsan23:02
jacekowskihmm, that's not prompt23:02
FredrIQstrange prompt23:03
FredrIQhm, ok23:03
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FredrIQ$PS4 seems to have this23:03
FredrIQhm, yea, changing it results in another displayed23:04
FredrIQbut why is this displayed at all?23:04
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userhi there23:07
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guille_which is the bus name for the system events?23:09
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DocScrutinizerFredrIQ: set +vx23:10
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guille_(actually i'm looking for the key eb23:11
guille_events), sorry23:12
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RST38bisHohoho, I have finally got to the tracker.cfg and made the damn thing shut up23:43
RST38bisMiraculously, I can use the camera now.23:43
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lcukevening tigert \o23:48
lcukhave you tried fcam yet?23:48
RST38bislcuk: well, low memory mode was set to false, and activity level to highest23:49
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lcukRST38bis, thats a bit odd23:49
lcuki was actually wtfing at making my phone appear to be off23:49
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RST38bislcuk: not odd, overly optimistic23:49
RST38bisah ok23:49
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lcukscratch that, totally dead :S23:50
* lcuk curses mucking with x1123:51
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SpeedEvilA way to have another X session on composite would be awesome23:53
lcukSpeedEvil, hmm?23:53
lcukyou mean another local instance ?23:54
SpeedEvila completely independant X23:54
SpeedEvilor at least desktop23:54
MohammadAG51two servers can run23:54
MohammadAG51X servers23:54
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SpeedEvilyes - I don't think they can access the hardware at the same time though.23:54
SpeedEvilFor obvious reasons.23:54
MohammadAG51hmm, well, my PC can, but that's a shitty measure to see what can/'t be done23:55
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DocScrutinizerseparate framebuffers23:55
DocScrutinizerfor LCD and AV23:55
SpeedEvilThe graphics hw - on my brief skims - would need X to know about the other X when setting up.23:55
SpeedEvilThere are seperate buffers23:56
SpeedEvilor can be23:56
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DocScrutinizeryeah, +There are23:56
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DocScrutinizerraster found that I seem to remember23:56
lcukwith a standalone X11, it would also allow standalone inpuy wouldnt it23:56
lcukie, one person using n900 keyboard + n900 lcd23:57
lcukanother using the tvout+bt keyboard23:57
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DocScrutinizershould work, sure23:57
DocScrutinizerif cfgd correctly23:57
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DocScrutinizeryou'd need to tell primary to keep fingers off BT23:57
DocScrutinizerrsp the kbd driven via BT23:58
* lcuk is still confused why Russia N90 users are going gaga for my video23:59
lcukN900 even :P23:59
DocScrutinizerooh only Russians?23:59

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