IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-07-21

SpeedEvil	revert	00:00
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hno	jacekowski: I still understand what is said.. but only because I also seen the other picture where pins are numbered..	00:00
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LjL	DocScrutinizer: it went for a good price (the same as it was when i started talking about it) :( http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110561141457 - though i think at the very least, you'd have something not too good to say about the pictures	00:01
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LjL	can you get neighboring cell information (signal strength) on the N900?	00:02
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jacekowski	LjL: you can	00:02
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ShadowJK	how?	00:02
jacekowski	LjL: if you know how to ask rapuyama for it	00:02
ShadowJK	lol	00:03
hno	jacekowski: Not sure it was intentional by Rambo to edit the picture there.	00:03
jacekowski	and or gazoo	00:03
LjL	rapuyama? O.o i don't get your injokes :P	00:03
ShadowJK	gazoo and rapuyama are chips making up the modme	00:03
DocScrutinizer	simlock vodafone - screwit	00:03
LjL	oh	00:04
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hno	iirc there is GSM AT codes for asking cell information. Just hook up a terminal to the GSM modem and ask...	00:04
ShadowJK	the modem doesn't talk AT	00:04
hno	It doesn't?	00:04
jacekowski	it does	00:04
jacekowski	i saw it does	00:05
jacekowski	somebody was talking AT to it	00:05
hno	Pretty sure it does on the UART channel.	00:05
ShadowJK	There's a binary daemon in maemo that talks AT and then talks whatever with the modme	00:05
lcuk	beeeeep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep beeeeeep bbpebpebpeppebpbepbpbpepbpebpepbepbpepbpbpebpepbeb	00:05
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: nope. gazoo is rapuyama's PMU	00:05
* lcuk stops talking zx spectrum		00:05
DocScrutinizer	basically	00:05
ShadowJK	ah, pnatd. Phonet AT Daemon	00:06
DocScrutinizer	fsck pnatd	00:06
DocScrutinizer	doesn't even know ^C	00:06
DocScrutinizer	useless piece of crap	00:06
SpeedEvil	pnatd does not support most interesting commands	00:07
LjL	Android has APIs for requesting neighboring cell info, but apparently, on a lot of phones (if not all) it returns nothing	00:07
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Phone	00:07
SpeedEvil	see that	00:07
SpeedEvil	AT commands I found to work	00:07
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kerio	hmm... why isn't apt in italian now?	00:08
DocScrutinizer	pnatd is completely utterly useless worthless crap useful for exactly nothing but do your daily dose of upset	00:08
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kerio	and where the hell is dpkg-reconfigure	00:09
alterego	pnatd isn't useless, just needs more command handling :P	00:09
SpeedEvil	the above list is quite sparse :(	00:09
ShadowJK	pnatd is just there to make bluetooth "tethering" work :)	00:09
alterego	And ^C might be being ignored for good reason ...	00:10
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: yes, there's alsi ATI2, ATI3 etc :-P	00:10
DocScrutinizer	also	00:10
SpeedEvil	It can't even send SMSs	00:10
DocScrutinizer	alterego: thought about that, but for my life can't find the good reason	00:10
ShadowJK	Well it's supposed to be pretending to be a tty/serial port...	00:11
ShadowJK	try ^D ;-D	00:11
DocScrutinizer	tzz	00:11
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DocScrutinizer	I guess I did	00:11
DocScrutinizer	I guess I tried about all possible shit, incl ~. and ...	00:12
DocScrutinizer	exit	00:12
DocScrutinizer	dunno what	00:12
DocScrutinizer	also has no line editing discipline	00:13
ShadowJK	^\ ?	00:13
ShadowJK	uh?	00:13
DocScrutinizer	which might tell us something, if only I knew what	00:14
hno	Hmm.. what's the phone app called?	00:14
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: tried that as well iirc	00:14
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alterego	callui	00:14
alterego	hno: callui	00:14
ShadowJK	I don't remember my dialup modem having line editing :)	00:14
DocScrutinizer	cellmo-caller-ui or something like that	00:14
DocScrutinizer	killall -9 rtcom-call-ui	00:15
DocScrutinizer	and you'll see	00:15
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: ctrl-h or bs usually worked in my hardware modems	00:15
DocScrutinizer	not on pnatd	00:15
DocScrutinizer	aah bs, yes	00:16
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DocScrutinizer	though...	00:16
DocScrutinizer	srrrrewitt	00:16
* lcuk is freaked out still		00:16
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trip0	does maemo use "ohm" currently?	00:17
DocScrutinizer	nope, no bs, no ^D	00:18
DocScrutinizer	no ^\	00:18
trip0	DocScrutinizer, "no" to me?	00:18
DocScrutinizer	^h seems to work	00:18
alterego	damnit, thought pnatd would work with nc -l :)	00:18
DocScrutinizer	trip0: nope, no idea what you said	00:19
trip0	oh, okay	00:19
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DocScrutinizer	ohm like kill app when runaway? seems I heard about that on maemo	00:19
trip0	hmm... looks like ohm is running on my n900...	00:20
DocScrutinizer	toldya	00:20
DocScrutinizer	just not too sure what it does	00:20
trip0	OpenHardwareManager	00:20
trip0	it's stupposed to do things like pause the player when an incoming call comes in	00:21
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DocScrutinizer	mhhhhm	00:21
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trip0	i'm trying to figure out how "profile" ties into it for meego	00:21
DocScrutinizer	seemed to remember some max mem usage parameters with ohm when to kill apps	00:22
DocScrutinizer	maybe I dreamt it	00:22
DocScrutinizer	as you'd think that's ulimit	00:22
trip0	oh, so ohm also does ulimit stuff?	00:22
trip0	...interesting	00:22
trip0	:P	00:22
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DocScrutinizer	nah, maybe it was ulimit for ohm, somewhere in nitscripts	00:24
DocScrutinizer	nvm	00:24
DocScrutinizer	it's really harder than you'd think - to know everything	00:25
DocScrutinizer	atfuckerdv hljadv hljda lhdO-HEPHIÄ	00:25
DocScrutinizer	ERROR	00:25
hurbu	FU LOL	00:26
DocScrutinizer	^D^D^D^C^\DIE_BASTARD!	00:26
* DocScrutinizer tears down ssh session with pnatd		00:26
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DocScrutinizer	meh	00:41
DocScrutinizer	Phonet AT commands data port (phonet-at v0.7.6)	00:41
DocScrutinizer	$Id: kat.c 11225 2008-08-06 13:59:49Z redenisc $	00:41
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DocScrutinizer	-rwsr-sr-x 1 root root 12676 Aug 27 2009 /usr/bin/pnatd	00:42
DocScrutinizer	doesn't look too smart or even large enough for a decent AT interpreter	00:43
kerio	DocScrutinizer: 2009 bytes, just disassemble it	00:43
DocScrutinizer	check the perms ! XP	00:43
SpeedEvil	the modem node must be read/write only by root I guess	00:44
DocScrutinizer	sure, but why is user supposed to have unrestricted access to modem AT interface?	00:44
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: jacekowski is the divine RE disassembler wizard extraordinaire here :-D	00:46
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kerio	jacekowski: go do your magic	00:46
DocScrutinizer	tbh I'd not even know how to disassemble an arm binary, off top of my head and out of the box	00:46
jacekowski	it's just a wrapper	00:47
jacekowski	there is probably a /usr/bin/pnatd.launch	00:47
DocScrutinizer	around phonet, sure	00:47
DocScrutinizer	ooh	00:47
DocScrutinizer	nope	00:47
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DocScrutinizer	Nokia-N900-42-11:~# find /usr/bin/ /usr/sbin/ /bin /sbin /lib/ /var/lib/ /usr/lib* -name 'pnat'	00:50
DocScrutinizer	/usr/bin/pnatd	00:50
steinex	i have a question: i want to use rsync to sync my netbooks music to my n900. however, if i use usb mass storage mode i get 'read only fs' errors. wlan is really to slow to do the sync. any ideas?	00:50
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steinex	i thought about usb networking or something like this, possible?	00:51
DocScrutinizer	not better than wlan I'd guess	00:52
steinex	hrm, okay...	00:52
steinex	just courious: would i have the same problem if the fat-partition that holds the music wouldn't be fat32?	00:52
steinex	i guess it would be the same problem with ext3 because the phone sets the fs to ro, right?	00:53
DocScrutinizer	hmm rsync is a tad hard, between different filesystems I guess	00:53
ShadowJK	nah it's fine	00:53
DocScrutinizer	nope	00:53
SpeedEvil	scp over usbnet is faster	00:53
zash	tarpipe	00:53
ShadowJK	--modify-window 1 is nice for vfat though	00:53
steinex	ShadowJK: i have this	00:53
SpeedEvil	Still.	00:54
steinex	well okay, i really should think about mkfs.ext3 for my userdata then..	00:54
steinex	thanks for the input	00:54
SpeedEvil	A meg and a half a second - wifi - will move 5G/hou	00:54
SpeedEvil	r	00:54
DocScrutinizer	why not just cp the whole shit?	00:54
DocScrutinizer	if you're in mass storage mode anyway	00:54
SpeedEvil	or 40G/night	00:54
ShadowJK	maemo doesn't take kindly to mkfs.ext3 on the MyDocs partition :/	00:54
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steinex	DocScrutinizer: because i sometimes just edit tags here and there on my netbook and i don't want to copy all the stuff nearly daily	00:55
DocScrutinizer	yeah, deprecated	00:55
steinex	instead i'll rsync the changes in a minute and be done.	00:55
jacekowski	so what do we want to know?	00:55
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SpeedEvil	steinex: What I did	00:55
DocScrutinizer	why is pnatd such a drag	00:55
SpeedEvil	steinex: Tarred up whole contents of MyDocs onto /home	00:55
DocScrutinizer	or uSD	00:56
SpeedEvil	steinex: fdisked to remove mydocs - with usb mass storage enabled so it unmounts on the local side.	00:56
SpeedEvil	recreate mydocs as a vfat of 4G on thesame partition number	00:56
SpeedEvil	make a ext3 partition in the extra space	00:56
SpeedEvil	mount that on /home/user/data	00:57
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: honestly, maybe there's some itsy bits we could learn from pnatd	00:57
steinex	SpeedEvil: yeah, thats something i plan to do now	00:57
SpeedEvil	tell tracker to utterly ignore /data - but to track /data/sounds and /data/video	00:57
trem	nite all, sweet dreams	00:57
SpeedEvil	this means that media player and stuff works	00:57
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DocScrutinizer	ask oncle SpeedEvil :-)	00:58
ShadowJK	I wonder if the block device itelf gets exported read-only, or if the hist mounts it readonly due to fs errors	00:58
jacekowski	/usr/lib/libisi.so.1	00:58
jacekowski	any info on that lib?	00:58
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: wtf is r/o? usb mass storage?	00:59
pigeon	does the google talk/jabber on the n900 support video call?	00:59
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: nope	00:59
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, that's what he said	00:59
jacekowski	pigeon: yes	00:59
DocScrutinizer	shouldn't	00:59
DocScrutinizer	it'd be utterly worthless	01:00
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pigeon	jacekowski: cool, thanks.	01:00
ShadowJK	<steinex> i have a question: i want to use rsync to sync my netbooks music to my n900. however, if i use usb mass storage mode i get 'read only fs' errors. wlan is really to slow to do the sync. any ideas?	01:00
DocScrutinizer	hmmm	01:00
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: it looks like all phonet shit is done in that libisi	01:00
jacekowski	pnatd*	01:00
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DocScrutinizer	I'd not believe that until I read detailed errormsg	01:01
ShadowJK	That oFono module that talks to Nokia modems is called isimodem iirc	01:01
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: phonet sounds about right	01:01
DocScrutinizer	yes	01:01
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jacekowski	oFono?	01:01
DocScrutinizer	knew I heard it somewhere, thanks ShadowJK	01:01
jacekowski	omg	01:02
jacekowski	my brain just melted	01:02
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alterego	libisi is what pnatd uses.	01:02
alterego	forgot what it means though :)	01:02
DocScrutinizer	libisi is probably what phonet lives in (the older sibling of nborn ofono)	01:03
alterego	ofono is a replacement yeah	01:03
alterego	for a closed kernel module/s and isi	01:03
jacekowski	ISI library is for sending/receiving and coding/decoding ISI messages. This package contains runtime support for using libisi together with Glib.	01:03
ShadowJK	I didnt know there was a closed kernel module :)	01:03
jacekowski	wtf is isi	01:03
DocScrutinizer	head we hot no closed kernel modules	01:04
DocScrutinizer	got*	01:04
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DocScrutinizer	isi is easy :-P	01:04
alterego	phonet is the kernel module I belive	01:05
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: any enlightening words?	01:05
ShadowJK	phonet kernel drivers are opensource	01:05
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alterego	Oh cool	01:05
DocScrutinizer	and libisi is the closed part	01:05
alterego	Right	01:05
jacekowski	is pnatd lifeguarded?	01:05
DocScrutinizer	I'd guess	01:05
ShadowJK	but they're not interesting	01:05
ShadowJK	just message passing iirc	01:05
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: wut?	01:05
jacekowski	dsme lifeguard	01:06
alterego	Yeah, I think I looked at the symbols once and it was basically ofono	01:06
jacekowski	hmm, nvm	01:06
* DocScrutinizer shoots down pnatd with a railgun		01:06
ShadowJK	pnatd doesnt run typically	01:06
jacekowski	it doesn't look like it's communicating with dsme	01:06
ShadowJK	it's normally started by bluez on incomming DUN connection on bluetooth	01:06
alterego	Anyone got pnatd working with netcat? :)	01:06
ShadowJK	to talk AT with the DUN client	01:06
DocScrutinizer	muhaha, so it should at least know atd9*fsckmegntly#	01:07
alterego	I thought it was used for usb modem	01:07
alterego	bt is thir party :P	01:07
ShadowJK	oh yeah usb modem too	01:08
alterego	you mean primarily, BT DUN is third party ...	01:08
ShadowJK	bt tethering enabler is almost just uncommenting it in the conf ;p	01:09
alterego	Oh really?	01:09
alterego	I suppose it's just adding a bt service and rfcomm listening and invoking pnatd	01:10
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ShadowJK	exec rfcomm -S -- listen -1 1 /usr/bin/pnatd '{}'	01:11
DocScrutinizer	exec rfcomm?? what a cruft is that?	01:11
ShadowJK	from the upstart script	01:12
DocScrutinizer	aah, suppose it's upstart	01:12
DocScrutinizer	:-D	01:12
ShadowJK	also a second line to advertise dun on sdp	01:12
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alterego	ShadowJK: so it's not config then, you're just using upstart to run rfcomm and sdptool heh	01:14
alterego	Admittedly I'd probably do it the same ..	01:14
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alterego	I would auto select the channel though	01:14
* DocScrutinizer muses over rfcomm and sdptool		01:15
alterego	DocScrutinizer: they're fun.	01:15
DocScrutinizer	meh, man rfcomm : man : not found	01:15
alterego	I've got a bluetooth to RS232 adapter, can work as host or slave.	01:16
DocScrutinizer	mhm --help always comes handy	01:16
alterego	So I can actually use my N900 as a modem for an old machine with RS232 port	01:17
Arkenoi	alterego: what was the price?	01:17
* Arkenoi wants one too		01:17
DocScrutinizer	Services:	01:17
DocScrutinizer	DID SP DUN LAN FAX OPUSH FTP PRINT HS HSAG HF HFAG SAP PBAP NAP	01:17
DocScrutinizer	GN PANU HCRP HID KEYB WIIMOTE CIP CTP A2SRC A2SNK AVRCT AVRTG	01:17
DocScrutinizer	UDIUE UDITE SEMCHLA SR1 SYNCML SYNCMLSERV ACTIVESYNC HOTSYNC	01:17
DocScrutinizer	PALMOS NOKID PCSUITE NFTP NSYNCML NGAGE APPLE ISYNC	01:17
DocScrutinizer	WTF	01:17
DocScrutinizer	missing	01:17
alterego	Hah	01:17
alterego	If you're interested SP is serial device.	01:18
alterego	You can use: sdptool search SP	01:18
alterego	to find BT devices with serial ports.	01:18
DocScrutinizer	gnhnhn	01:18
* DocScrutinizer mutates to MrHacker		01:19
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alterego	uh oh	01:20
alterego	hci* are also useful	01:20
DocScrutinizer	lookatthatshit! APPLE ISYNC	01:20
alterego	hcitool scan	01:20
DocScrutinizer	I know hcitool	01:20
alterego	Do we have a BT PAN solution for the N900?	01:21
DocScrutinizer	was indispensable with Openmoko FR BT	01:22
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: thought so	01:22
alterego	hrm	01:23
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles#PAN	01:23
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alterego	cool	01:30
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DocScrutinizer	glad you like it :-D	01:34
alterego	I'd still like to get pnatd to work with netcat	01:38
alterego	I would have thought it'd work out-of-the-box	01:39
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ShadowJK	fucking shit	01:52
ShadowJK	a bat dropped down on my head	01:52
DocScrutinizer	what??????????	01:53
ShadowJK	srsly	01:53
DocScrutinizer	one of my little friends?	01:53
asj	ShadowJK: what continent?	01:53
DocScrutinizer	those with the wings?	01:53
ShadowJK	europe	01:53
ShadowJK	yeah, wings	01:53
jacekowski	which part of europe?	01:53
ShadowJK	finland	01:53
asj	ShadowJK: come to .AU where the bats are the size of house cats, then you can complain	01:53
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DocScrutinizer	ROTFL	01:54
jacekowski	asj: and spiders are so big that they have health bars	01:54
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ShadowJK	I was in bed and heard something scratching the ceiling/wall overhead, and then there was flapping on my head	01:54
DocScrutinizer	shiiiiiit	01:54
asj	jacekowski: heh :) hey, I have heard a saucer sized huntsman walking accross the a wall	01:54
ShadowJK	I don't think I've ever leaped out of bed and closed the door behind me so fast before	01:55
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DocScrutinizer	cackle	01:55
ShadowJK	then I peaked back in, and there was a bat flying around	01:55
DocScrutinizer	poor little batty	01:55
asj	ShadowJK: here bats called Flying Foxes roost in all the trees and frequently seem to get into fights with each other and you hear this bashing, screaming and then crashing and swoosh off it goes	01:55
ShadowJK	took half an hour to find clothes and tools to catch it with	01:56
ShadowJK	and now I can't bloody find it	01:56
asj	look on the ceiling in a corner	01:56
nextime	asj in AU you have also bad educated opossum.	01:56
ShadowJK	yep, all corners clear	01:56
DocScrutinizer	look on the floor, they get pretty fast exhausted and go down	01:56
nextime	they piss on the rain sensor of my robotized telescope closing the roof.	01:56
asj	nextime: it would be eaiser to educate them if you could kill them ;)	01:57
ShadowJK	curtains clear, floor looks clear	01:57
nextime	asj: i'm too far away to kill them	01:57
ShadowJK	but i have so much junk..	01:57
asj	ShadowJK: maybe he got out?	01:57
DocScrutinizer	probably	01:57
ShadowJK	yeah it's a possibility...	01:57
DocScrutinizer	if you got no light	01:57
asj	http://paradoxoff.com/files/2009/08/pemba-flying-fox-1.jpg	01:58
asj	there, with people for fize	01:58
DocScrutinizer	they don't fly from lit room into the dark, strange enough	01:58
ShadowJK	I had no light when it happened, I switched on light when I peeked, and left it on	01:58
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ShadowJK	so it would be light room -> dark closet -> damaged net that looks easy to get in through and hard to get out through	01:59
DocScrutinizer	a abt falling down, what the F*** happend to it?	01:59
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DocScrutinizer	what's been wrong with that bat?	01:59
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: yep	02:00
DocScrutinizer	will find out when there's no light	02:00
ShadowJK	I had a tower fan on at max blast, it could have been flying around unnoticed for forever, maybe it tried to land in the ceiling corner and didn't get a good grip and fell down	02:00
ShadowJK	and swooped down on me	02:00
DocScrutinizer	maybe	02:00
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ShadowJK	oh if I leave light on it'll stay put?	02:01
DocScrutinizer	also the fan might have confused the shit out of it	02:01
ShadowJK	it's not the first time I have a bet, but first time it has dropped down and first time I haven't found it aftwerwards..	02:02
DocScrutinizer	I watched one not leaving my room thru open window for ~1h, always did a U-turn where the glass of window would normally be. Then I switched off light and out it was in 10s	02:02
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DocScrutinizer	as if they are afraid of dark when in bright room	02:03
ShadowJK	it might have left into other room when I briefly opened door and grabbed some clothes..	02:04
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ShadowJK	but it's not there either :/	02:04
DocScrutinizer	hope you used nice new nightmode of n900 cam to shoot a few photos	02:04
* DocScrutinizer opens window to garden and waits for his friens the bats drop in		02:05
ShadowJK	you kidding? I shot up so fast the blanket flew halfway across the room	02:05
ShadowJK	and my n900 not quite as far	02:05
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* DocScrutinizer makes notice on whiteboard to finally build a house for his friends and hang it to the wall of house		02:07
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DocScrutinizer	s/house/big house/2	02:08
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ShadowJK	okay you crazy bat man, come take your friend home	02:08
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* DocScrutinizer requests rapport about completeness of personell from chief of bat army		02:10
jacekowski	so what's the problem with pnatd anyways?	02:12
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jacekowski	because it looks like it's just stupid interface between pty and phonet using libisi	02:13
DocScrutinizer	it's stupid, and it doesn't honor ^C	02:13
jacekowski	because it takes over controlling terminal	02:13
DocScrutinizer	yep	02:13
jacekowski	pnatd -h	02:13
DocScrutinizer	errwut?	02:13
jacekowski	if you would kill it there will be no controlling terminal anymore	02:13
jacekowski	it'll be just dead terminal	02:14
jacekowski	it's broken by design	02:14
jacekowski	but try pnatd -h	02:14
DocScrutinizer	pnatd --help just tells me pnatd is ... BS	02:15
jacekowski	Usage: pnatd [/dev/<tty_device_name> \| -p] [-r]	02:15
jacekowski	Open a TTY line and handle AT commands from it using Phonet.	02:15
jacekowski	-p create a pseudo-terminal instead of opening an existing terminal	02:15
jacekowski	-r restart whenever the terminal is hung up (until fatal error)	02:15
jacekowski	-V print version informations and exit	02:15
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DocScrutinizer	so what?	02:16
ds3	can multiple copies of pnatd be run at once?	02:16
jacekowski	yep	02:16
ds3	OoooooH	02:16
jacekowski	it looks like phonet and rapuyama can deal with it	02:16
jacekowski	so multiple clients can talk to modem	02:17
DocScrutinizer	you bet they will get confused eventually	02:17
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jacekowski	every client get's unique identifier	02:17
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DocScrutinizer	mhm, and what'll happen if two calls placed concurrently	02:17
DocScrutinizer	?	02:17
DocScrutinizer	even data calls?	02:18
ManoftheSea	hmm?	02:18
jacekowski	cellmo can handle it	02:18
jacekowski	userland can't	02:18
DocScrutinizer	bwahaha	02:18
jacekowski	but data and voice at the same time is possible with current userland	02:18
DocScrutinizer	cellmo can not handle two concurrent data transmissions	02:18
DocScrutinizer	at least if they are of same type	02:19
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DocScrutinizer	either GPRS or CSD	02:19
DocScrutinizer	probably a CSD and a GPRS data connection can live concurrently	02:20
kerio	wait, what	02:20
kerio	two concurrent calls?	02:20
DocScrutinizer	kerio: see? it sounds as impossible as it is	02:21
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DocScrutinizer	usually on a modem you have methods like mux0710 to open up to 4 channels, each of them acting like a individual AT interpreter. But still you can't do things that the stack doesn't support	02:23
ShadowJK	um, on symbian the modem can handle two concurrent data connections fine	02:25
DocScrutinizer	I honestly doubt that	02:25
ShadowJK	(but when I was roaming in germany on vodafone, vodafone only allowed one data)	02:25
DocScrutinizer	ATD*9#;	02:26
DocScrutinizer	establish GPRS data connection	02:26
DocScrutinizer	won't fly with two concurrent requests	02:26
ShadowJK	I used to have two data connections with my symbian phones all the time. One for symbian and one for n810 over bt. each device got their own public ip	02:26
DocScrutinizer	at least I never heard of such thing	02:27
DocScrutinizer	wtf??	02:27
ShadowJK	enemy of the internet, using so many public IPs ;-)	02:27
DocScrutinizer	well that's DHCP, but not the basic OTA data connection (aka carrier, on other technologies)	02:28
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DocScrutinizer	over DSL you also can run deveral independent DHCP logical connections, but you can't request the DSL modem to open up a second channel	02:29
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DocScrutinizer	on GPRS you probably wouldn't even have a means to configure different APN for the "concurrent connections"	02:30
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ShadowJK	oh I've done that too	02:30
ShadowJK	different APNs	02:31
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kerio	gprs has no way to open two concurrent connections	02:31
DocScrutinizer	exactly kerio	02:31
luke-jr	I don't get what APNs are	02:31
kerio	maybe umts can	02:31
DocScrutinizer	http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Point_Name	02:33
DocScrutinizer	settings . internet-connections - connection - <yourGPRSconnection> - "EDIT" - "forward" ->here you are: Name of AccessPoint, UserName, Password	02:35
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DocScrutinizer	-->APN	02:35
DocScrutinizer	s/forward/next	02:36
luke-jr	...	02:38
ShadowJK	access point	02:39
ShadowJK	like the mms access point gets you into some isp lan where you only find the mms and wap and the whole gsm/3g clusterfuck nih servers	02:40
Arkenoi	kerio: so how do you send/receive MMS while connected via GPRS?	02:40
DocScrutinizer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_Point_Name	02:40
DocScrutinizer	for those who want it at one click	02:40
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DocScrutinizer	obviously MMS needs a different APN, and so probably GPRS is torn down for MMS data cnnection to establish, and then when MMS is done it switches back to standard APN. Not sure about that, but sounds logical to me	02:42
DocScrutinizer	ask frals	02:43
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ShadowJK	it's done like that in maemo because icd/whatever is unable to do more than one at a time	02:43
DocScrutinizer	or just do a ping flood with timestamped packets during MMS rx	02:44
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: I'd say GPRS OTA protocol is unable to do more than one at a time	02:44
DocScrutinizer	but meh	02:44
luke-jr	T-Mobile supposedly only has one APN now	02:44
DocScrutinizer	for all?	02:45
DocScrutinizer	MMS and data service?	02:45
DocScrutinizer	s/data service/internet access	02:45
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DocScrutinizer	and WAP :-P	02:46
rafaelbrandao	I've been running a program and as soon as it finishes, it makes my n810 freezes and restart. how can I figure out what is happening?	02:46
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: supposely	02:46
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: the only one I can make practical use of is a discontinued one ;	02:46
luke-jr	;p	02:46
DocScrutinizer	rafaelbrandao: nasty	02:47
rafaelbrandao	that program is the one I've been trying to make it work. now that it finally works, it makes me sad.	02:47
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ShadowJK	what program?	02:48
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rafaelbrandao	example program from libfprint. I'm trying to get my fingerprint enrolled.	02:48
ShadowJK	is it using alot of ram?	02:49
rafaelbrandao	hmm... I don't know, really.	02:49
DocScrutinizer	strace >somefile. Hope somefile holds some helpful info after crash	02:49
ShadowJK	vmstat 1 >somefile	02:50
DocScrutinizer	check /var/log/messages	02:50
DocScrutinizer	prolly will need to install klogd/syslogd for that	02:50
ShadowJK	/proc/bootreason after freeze	02:51
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DocScrutinizer	dunno if diablo has crashdumplog in /dev/mtdblk2	02:51
DocScrutinizer	or somewhere	02:51
DocScrutinizer	but sounds like a kernel panic anyway	02:52
DocScrutinizer	so probably that strange fingerprint prog comes with some nasty kernel driver	02:52
DocScrutinizer	that maybe crashes on unload	02:53
rafaelbrandao	oh no x_x	02:53
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rafaelbrandao	ShadowJK, just tried the /proc/bootreason but it says I don't have permission, even being root.	02:53
DocScrutinizer	errr	02:54
ShadowJK	cat /proc/bootreason	02:54
DocScrutinizer	ls -l /proc/bootreason	02:54
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: x.x	02:54
rafaelbrandao	here says: 32wd_to	02:54
DocScrutinizer	watchdog-timeout	02:55
DocScrutinizer	kernel been busy with excessive swapping. prog uses too much ram	02:55
DocScrutinizer	my guess	02:55
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ShadowJK	mine too	02:56
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ShadowJK	does it use the camera?	02:56
rafaelbrandao	nop	02:56
luke-jr	does the proximity sensor do anything useful?	02:57
asj	luke-jr: yes?	02:57
DocScrutinizer	detectproximity? :-P	02:57
luke-jr	asj: such as?	02:57
asj	luke-jr: not dial with your ear	02:57
luke-jr	ah	02:57
asj	luke-jr: not dial while in your pocket	02:57
ShadowJK	it switches off the screen when you put the phone to your head during a call	02:57
luke-jr	asj: that was my hope	02:57
luke-jr	actually, I was hoping it could be made to never turn the screen off when it was visible	02:58
asj	so you want it to work backwards?	02:58
luke-jr	no	02:58
luke-jr	I like that it auto-locks in my pocket/ear	02:58
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luke-jr	I just don't want it to ever turn off when I'm looking at it	02:58
DocScrutinizer	actually you can dial with prox sensor covered :-(	02:59
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asj	luke-jr: use the 2nd camera for face recognition? if you have any cpu power left..you can use the phone	02:59
luke-jr	...	02:59
luke-jr	why not the proximity?	02:59
asj	luke-jr: it can't see they you are looking at it	02:59
DocScrutinizer	seems prox sensor is acive during established call only, by default	03:00
asj	DocScrutinizer: heh, who did you call? ex?	03:01
DocScrutinizer	huh?	03:02
DocScrutinizer	Nokia-N900-42-11:/sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity# cat state	03:02
DocScrutinizer	open	03:02
DocScrutinizer	Nokia-N900-42-11:/sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity# cat state	03:02
DocScrutinizer	closed	03:02
DocScrutinizer	works though	03:02
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luke-jr	asj: if there's nothing directly in front of it, I'm usually looking at it	03:02
DocScrutinizer	closed means covered	03:02
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: open/close is also logged :)	03:03
DocScrutinizer	open means "you're looking at it"	03:03
luke-jr	basically	03:04
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: I'd be surprised if it were active all the time. OTOH cam lens slider switch is active all the time, and it's same component	03:04
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: it seems to be	03:05
DocScrutinizer	meh, seems far IR. Cam doesn't show any activity, though there evidently has to be some	03:06
DocScrutinizer	ergo-> cam can't detect pox's IR	03:07
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DocScrutinizer	cam can detect CIR LED though, nice blue(!)	03:11
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asj	my phone is sitting on the desk right now face up, not looking at it ;)	03:21
luke-jr	asj: if it was on, you'd see it	03:22
luke-jr	I might want mine to show a fullscreen clock in that case :)	03:23
luke-jr	too bad the case doesn't have some kind of human-contact sensor	03:23
DocScrutinizer	CIR LED as seen by N900 maincam (without using a mirror or a black hole :-P) http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10033	03:23
luke-jr	Videos are unable to play. Either you have an older version of Adobe's Flash player, or javascript is turned off. Update to the latest Flash player.	03:24
luke-jr	no still?	03:24
DocScrutinizer	microb playback is absolute crap on mp4 recorded with N900. download and playback with mediaplayer	03:24
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: same here on laptop. Use N900 :-P	03:24
DocScrutinizer	microb is uttering some AdobeFlash9 when getting contxt menu of video	03:25
DocScrutinizer	no idea what's wrong on desktop linux	03:26
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: N900 is building kdelibs	03:27
DocScrutinizer	hehe	03:27
DocScrutinizer	kill -sigstop	03:28
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: no thanks	03:29
luke-jr	:_	03:29
luke-jr	btw	03:29
luke-jr	N900 can't build WebKit still	03:29
luke-jr	:(	03:29
luke-jr	but then, I also discovered people were havign trouble building it on x86 with 4 GB RAM :P	03:30
luke-jr	apparently that thing is really really really greedy	03:30
ShadowJK	sounds like c++	03:30
DocScrutinizer	mp4 and ovi share both suck	03:30
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luke-jr	ShadowJK: please explain the relevance of C++ to the linker.	03:31
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asj	luke-jr: it seems to have an enormous number of symbols, C++ may not help there	03:31
asj	and it seems to trigger some linker bugs on other platforms too	03:32
luke-jr	of course, then there's cmake...	03:33
luke-jr	piece of crap	03:33
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DocScrutinizer	eeew	03:37
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, thats a pretty hue.	03:42
lcuk	how well does it come through with the face cam?	03:42
lcuk	and at what sort of range	03:43
lcuk	when i looked with the normal cam it wasnt great and i know theres a filter over the face-cam	03:43
cehteh	that filter is called touchscreen foil :P	03:44
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lcuk	ahh DocScrutinizer its coming through reasonably	03:44
lcuk	and if i did it to detect temporal flashing	03:44
DocScrutinizer	lost me	03:45
rafaelbrandao	about the libfprint issue, the program is executed and finished, then a few seconds later: everything is frozen and the system restart. :\	03:46
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Gryllida	is it the right place to ask about how to upload to maemo extras?	03:46
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, shine your IR led into the face came and record it	03:46
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DocScrutinizer	wouldn't even know how to do that	03:46
lcuk	welcome Gryllida, ask sensible questions and we will try to answer	03:47
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, ok nm just ponderments	03:47
lcuk	i just shone my remote control into face cam and saw it flashing	03:47
lcuk	hence the temporal bit ;)	03:47
DocScrutinizer	toldya	03:48
DocScrutinizer	use 3. flash with maybe 25 Hz	03:49
DocScrutinizer	get a pretty decent signal, even with bright sunlight interfering	03:49
lcuk	yeah, attempt to sync with the cam	03:49
lcuk	yeah the flashing has a problem	03:49
DocScrutinizer	ok, make that 12Hz	03:49
lcuk	it would effectively halve the res	03:49
lcuk	detection points would be 2x as far away	03:50
lcuk	because i cannot accurately locate where it isnt - although, i could interpolate	03:50
DocScrutinizer	hehe	03:50
lcuk	but i would be gaining 1 frame of lag	03:50
DocScrutinizer	can't accurately tell where it isn't - nicely put	03:51
lcuk	:)	03:51
DocScrutinizer	without sync you'll even have 2 frames as you always get one frame crap	03:52
lcuk	yeah aliasing effects	03:52
DocScrutinizer	yep	03:52
DocScrutinizer	even rolling shutter	03:52
lcuk	sure, the leds arent really a problem	03:53
DocScrutinizer	dunno	03:53
lcuk	i grab gravitational centre of blobs	03:53
lcuk	so even a smear works nicely	03:53
Gryllida	hello?	03:53
lcuk	as long as its on the same frame ;)	03:53
DocScrutinizer	yeah that'S the point of rolling shutter	03:54
lcuk	<lcuk> welcome Gryllida, ask sensible questions and we will try to answer	03:54
DocScrutinizer	may see two on one off	03:54
lcuk	yeah at least bright only i am able to grab at ~25fps	03:54
Gryllida	Thaank you lcuk, I've uploaded a package to Maemo Extras website and seem to be unable to find where to edit its description.	03:54
lcuk	Gryllida, the debian packaging itself specifies the description	03:55
lcuk	it is the central source for your information - configure the package and include description as per debian packaging specifications and the description will come through	03:55
DocScrutinizer	it's in file named 'control'	03:56
lcuk	http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/	03:56
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MohammadAG	umm, how do I check which process has /var/lib/dpkg/lock locked?	03:59
lcuk	its either ham fapman or dpkg :P	03:59
Gryllida	lcuk: I uploaded the source to the website, including the filled-out 'control' file, it compiles and orks on the Maemo machine. However the website builds it and then the description doesn't show up.	03:59
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lcuk	Gryllida, which package is it	04:00
MohammadAG	lcuk, heh, not on my PC	04:00
MohammadAG	oh and ham doesn't lock it, apt-worker does :P	04:00
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: fuser?	04:00
* lcuk throws a frals @ u		04:00
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, tried that but...	04:01
MohammadAG	mohammad@mohammad-laptop:~$ fuser /var/lib/dpkg/lock	04:01
MohammadAG	mohammad@mohammad-laptop:~$	04:01
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DocScrutinizer	err, so it's not locked but shere existence of lockfile is the problem. Just rm XP	04:01
Gryllida	lcuk, 'which' as in?	04:02
MohammadAG	touch worked	04:02
* MohammadAG installs hildon-desktop on his laptop		04:02
lcuk	Gryllida, I meant what is the name of your package and the url that is not showing what you expect.	04:02
DocScrutinizer	Gryllida: name of package, URL etc	04:02
MohammadAG	brb	04:03
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Gryllida	http://maemo.org/packages/view/qtmeye/ ...	04:03
* Gryllida hides		04:03
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MohammadAG	bah	04:06
MohammadAG	hildon-desktop doesn't start	04:06
DocScrutinizer	Gryllida: strange	04:06
lcuk	Gryllida, on the packages page you just linked to, the description is correct	04:06
Gryllida	as in, I don't see it at all?	04:07
lcuk	Description: A simple Qt application for testing eyes vision acuity.	04:07
lcuk	.	04:07
lcuk	Further Information: qt4.garage.maemo.org	04:07
lcuk	XSBC-Bugtracker:	04:07
lcuk	website:	04:07
lcuk	A simple Qt application for testing eyes vision acuity.	04:07
lcuk	Further Information: qt4.garage.maemo.org	04:07
lcuk	Section:	04:07
DocScrutinizer	yep	04:07
* Gryllida doesn't see it		04:08
MohammadAG	AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getName' <- any ideas?	04:08
lcuk	i am going to bed, but Gryllida refresh the page perhaps	04:08
* lcuk shrugs and heads off to bed		04:08
Gryllida	oh, ok, looks like it's there now	04:08
DocScrutinizer	nightynight lcuk	04:08
lcuk	\o	04:08
Gryllida	good night	04:08
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MohammadAG	night lcuk	04:09
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* DocScrutinizer off for his special flavour of relaxing		04:10
DocScrutinizer	aka falling catatonic watching shit in TV	04:10
DocScrutinizer51	tell you, this auto portrait is a PITA	04:13
MohammadAG	ugh, damn hildon-desktop	04:14
DocScrutinizer51	and seems sh-ctl-r is working everywhere to switch it off at least ?-D	04:14
DocScrutinizer51	:-D even	04:15
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DocScrutinizer51	well I can say I don't particularly like xchat in portrait mode	04:33
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opdf2	Sometimes when I go back to a previos webpage, MicroB doesn't show it until I scroll. Is that normal?	04:45
Gryllida	hi, any organisators of http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Coding_Competition_1 online?	04:46
Gryllida	>.>	04:46
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DrGrov	Sorry for off-topic but this is the place to ask from mobile gurus	04:48
DrGrov	Is it possible to use a Blackberry in Europe?	04:48
DocScrutinizer	why not?	04:49
asj	some blackberries are cdma only	04:49
DocScrutinizer	yeah, those won't have an easy time here	04:50
DrGrov	Any idea where to buy one and get 3G support and hopefully unlocked ?	04:50
DocScrutinizer	blue... err blackberries are sold in every mobile store here though	04:50
* DocScrutinizer shrugs		04:51
DrGrov	Unfortunately the problem in Finland that there is no official retailer	04:51
asj	DrGrov: well buy one with 2100mhz umts support, it'll be listed as part of the spec	04:51
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luke-jr	so is there any hope whatsoever for N900 GPS?	04:52
DocScrutinizer	gprs 4band + umts ans you should be fine with it. Then get dataplan of whatever provider of your choice	04:52
DrGrov	I have a dataplan already	04:52
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: huh?	04:52
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: looks like it's basically closed as N810, but worse	04:53
DrGrov	asj: ok, thanks. i will search for that.	04:53
DocScrutinizer	yeah	04:53
DrGrov	I thought I would like to give a Blackberry a run for its money	04:53
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: undocumented phonet protocol, and doesn't even output NMEA	04:53
DocScrutinizer	yep	04:53
DocScrutinizer	you'll have to live with some Nokia blob	04:54
luke-jr	never	04:54
DocScrutinizer	unless someone REs it	04:54
luke-jr	so MeeGo will be GPS-less?	04:55
DocScrutinizer	shouldn't be too hard probably, as I guess the main heavy lifting algorithm wise is done inside the GPS chip anyway, and it's just the friggin intergace and dataformat therein that isn't exaactly convenient	04:56
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DocScrutinizer	good question, I have no idea	04:56
DocScrutinizer	I'd guess ofono will deal with it	04:56
DocScrutinizer	as GPS is part of the cellmo aiui	04:57
DocScrutinizer	dunno where from those dudes have their specs	04:57
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DrGrov	Should I buy a new Blackberry or a used one? Which is the better way to go?	04:58
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Termana	good morning	05:01
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Gryllida	morning	05:11
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GAN900	Stupid shit GPS	05:46
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GAN900	eCoach now thinks my top speed on my run was 49MPH. . . .	05:46
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asj	GAN900: sounds like ecoach needs some filtering	05:48
mortini	GAN900: sweeet.	05:52
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jaem	'Evening folks	05:53
Gryllida	hi	05:54
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jaem	Does anyone know what the purpose of the /usr/lib/cruft directory on my N900 is?	05:56
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jaem	I looked at the script in there, but I wasn't sure of the context.	05:56
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MohammadAG51	hmm	06:22
MohammadAG51	the N900's cam takes epic photos	06:22
MohammadAG51	without the battery cover	06:22
jaem	Oh?	06:22
jaem	It makes a difference?	06:22
MohammadAG51	a big difference tbh	06:23
jaem	Hmm...	06:23
* jaem gets out the duct tape		06:23
MohammadAG51	the blue part makes photos look shit	06:23
asj	and your battery cover isn't scratched up/dirty?	06:23
MohammadAG51	no, it has an annoying blue colour on the slide	06:23
MohammadAG51	which the flash reflects from	06:24
MohammadAG51	to make it worse, a chrome bezel surrounds that :p	06:24
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jaem	MohammadAG51: Thanks for the tip - I'll check that out later.	06:24
* MohammadAG51 needs a black marker		06:25
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luke-jr	so... moving 30 metres changes 2 values in the GPS data	06:27
jaem	MohammadAG51: I have one in my pocket if you can figure out a way to pass it to you over IRC :)	06:28
MohammadAG51	DCC, duh :P	06:29
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jaem	MohammadAG51: Ah, right.	06:30
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MohammadAG51	~seen javispedro	06:31
infobot	javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 55d 2h 32m 17s ago, saying: 'oh.. aisleriot solitaire with clutter/3D vista-like animations! port port port !'.	06:31
MohammadAG51	hmm	06:31
asj	MohammadAG: interesting, that makes me want to find a spare cover and "adjust" it	06:32
MohammadAG51	yeah, should be doable	06:33
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MohammadAG51	pry off blue part, break apart, use matte black square, reassemble with... well, what Nokia uses, glue	06:34
SpeedEvil	luke: gps?	06:35
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SpeedEvil	Maybe GAN's run really was 49MPH - if he can write as he types.	06:36
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SpeedEvil	run as	06:36
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GAN900	I wish.	06:39
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luke-jr	octets 2e and 2f make up GPS eph	06:55
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luke-jr	SpeedEvil: yeah	06:55
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: analyzing the data from the phonet GPS socket	06:55
luke-jr	0x30 might be the fraction of the GPS eph	06:56
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* luke-jr ponders what units it uses to represent lat/lon		06:59
MohammadAG51	kelvins, cause it's that messed up	07:00
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MohammadAG51	yay, My Nokia crashes now	07:01
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SpeedEvil	ah	07:04
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luke-jr	SpeedEvil: care to get me a GPS packet from a different lat/lon? :)	07:06
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: I don't think kelvins can represent coordinates...	07:06
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MohammadAG51	luke-jr, http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm	07:07
luke-jr	strace -p 6225 -e read=6 2>&1 \| grep '\| 000'	07:07
luke-jr	where 6225 is the PID of location-daemon	07:07
Macer	hahaha	07:07
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/NO_U	07:08
Macer	maybe if you were able to measure the bmr and determine the quantum state of each individual coordinate of space and reference it in a 6 dimentional grid	07:08
Macer	determining the spread of energy across the universe and keeping it constantly updated as the energy spreads throughout the system.. then you can use kelvins	07:09
MohammadAG51	luke-jr, how long should it take?	07:09
MohammadAG51	(strace)	07:09
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: a few seconds	07:09
MohammadAG51	oh, done	07:10
MohammadAG51	hex?	07:10
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luke-jr	yeah	07:10
MohammadAG51	why isn't there a hex calculator on the N900	07:10
luke-jr	cc-byte long one is ideal	07:10
asj	MohammadAG51: install the hp calculator	07:10
MohammadAG51	already installed, sec	07:11
MohammadAG51	why aren't there casio emulators	07:11
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luke-jr	MohammadAG51: gonna pastebin it? :P	07:12
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MohammadAG51	yeah... right :P	07:15
MohammadAG51	i would, since i don't usually give a crap, but at a friend's house so, nope :P	07:16
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MohammadAG51	luke-jr, hmm, got something to show lon/lat on a map?	07:21
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: Google Maps?	07:22
MohammadAG51	N900 friendly?	07:22
luke-jr	Ovi Maps?	07:22
MohammadAG51	lol	07:22
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MohammadAG51	hmm	07:23
MohammadAG51	that's kinda close	07:24
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MohammadAG51	hmm	07:25
MohammadAG51	luke-jr, convert both values to hex, then check the first two numbers on google maps	07:25
MohammadAG51	err, to decimals	07:25
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: they're nothing like my lat/lon :/	07:26
MohammadAG51	seems to be an out of syntax lon/lat	07:26
luke-jr	and that's to be expected	07:26
luke-jr	I can't walk far enough to change lat/lon :)	07:26
MohammadAG51	weird, they were close here	07:26
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luke-jr	I went about 30m	07:26
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luke-jr	what was close?	07:27
cehteh	mhm?	07:27
MohammadAG51	the lon/lat...	07:27
luke-jr	...	07:27
luke-jr	what values are you looking at? :P	07:27
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luke-jr	I didn't specify the two values I was	07:27
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cehteh	when you have bad fix (my wlan/cell tower triangulation) then coords are quite static	07:27
cehteh	aka same position for some hundred meters around	07:28
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ShadowJK	Check if they match CellIDs	07:46
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ShadowJK	I'd suspect that liblocation queries servers over internet to map cellid to coordinates	07:47
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cehteh	you can query the quality of the fix (how it was obtained and precision)	08:00
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MohammadAG51	Night (or morning, since it's 8AM :/)	08:04
Stskeeps	morn	08:05
cehteh	7:00 here :P	08:05
MohammadAG51	been awake since 1 PM	08:06
RST38h	"We plan to be rebellious, loud, challenging, critical and outrageously creative right at the heart of Symbian governance."	08:06
MohammadAG51	lol	08:06
Stskeeps	RST38h: [citation needed]	08:06
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RST38h	-- The Symbian Developer Cooperative	08:06
RST38h	Stskeeps: Happy now? ;)	08:06
* MohammadAG51 bans RST38h from the wiki		08:07
RST38h	http://www.symbiandevco.org/home	08:07
Stskeeps	RST38h: oh dear	08:07
RST38h	exactly	08:07
* RST38h gives a satanic laugh		08:08
MohammadAG51	lmao http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/20/antenna-aid-bandages-your-iphone-4-reception-issue-hopes-for-ro/	08:08
Stskeeps	RST38h: then again, it does illustrate where meego has some benefits	08:08
Stskeeps	RST38h: there's very little red tape for any contribution, compared to the shitload in this one..	08:09
Stskeeps	:P	08:09
slonopotamus	outrageously creative! oh my	08:09
asj	http://osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/iphone-4-antenna-decal.jpg -- I like that one better	08:11
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MiXu-	lol	08:12
RST38h	Stskeeps: I do not see it that way	08:12
RST38h	STskeeps: What I see is business as usual. Nokia adapting Moblin to replae Debian in Maemo. Intel continuing to develop several strains of Moblin for different devices, including mobile.	08:13
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RST38h	Stskeeps: Grudgingly accepting Qt as its toolkit	08:14
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RST38h	Stskeeps: As to the rest of us, we are left to watch technology demos	08:14
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Stskeeps	mm, i would disagree, but ok	08:15
Stskeeps	while i do complain a lot, there is good parts of what's going on and very positive things	08:15
RST38h	Stskeeps: Continuity with Maemo has been successfully broken by moving the whole meego thing to a different site with a different forum.	08:15
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Stskeeps	otoh, not bringing over the large wad of idiots from tmo..	08:16
Stskeeps	:P	08:16
RST38h	Stskeeps: I am sure there are positive things going on, but the overall direction is as I described above	08:16
Stskeeps	you're thinking continuity with maemo.org though, in terms of maemo, it's not a big leap from the initial harmattan architecture descriptions	08:16
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RST38h	Stskeeps: I am not sure not bringing the lemmings has been worth losing continuity	08:16
Stskeeps	where the OS would be a minimal core with a qt stack on top	08:17
RST38h	Stskeeps: Yea, as I said before, Meego is just another generation of Maemo	08:17
RST38h	Stskeeps: So, insisting on it being something new, with its own web sites, forum, etc is rather counterproductive	08:17
RST38h	Stskeeps: Especially after Nokia claimed that it "brings community to the Meego deal"	08:18
Stskeeps	well, i disagree, but so it goes	08:18
* Stskeeps wonders why his laptop sound is hosed		08:19
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luke-jr	Stskeeps: any idea on GPS phonet protocol?	08:20
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cehteh	NMEA in EBCDIC :)	08:25
RST38h	ahahhahaha	08:26
RST38h	When the US government needed to encrypt their data, they contacted IBM for that.	08:27
RST38h	And IBM came up with EBCDIC.	08:27
RST38h	;)	08:27
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Stskeeps	luke-jr: no sorry, check ISI headers	08:29
luke-jr	ISI?	08:29
Stskeeps	there's this closed pkg with all isi messages, cellmo-something	08:29
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luke-jr	...	08:30
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luke-jr	there is no cellmo-* anything	08:31
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Stskeeps	did you add the closed nokia-binaries repo to your sdk?	08:32
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luke-jr	I don't use a SDK	08:34
Stskeeps	well then	08:34
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luke-jr	http://maemo.org/packages/view/cellmo-icpr82-headers/ says Nokia added then removed it	08:34
luke-jr	so I guess there's no place to get it	08:34
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Stskeeps	ah, lovely	08:34
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luke-jr	Stskeeps: I managed to figure out a couple of items	08:38
luke-jr	but not the all-important lat/lon :/	08:38
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iPeter-	hi	08:56
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iPeter-	what could be wrong. i got tv cables, i connect it to tv and output is black. i hear sounds..	08:57
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redeeman	SpeedEvil, tried offline mode now, doesnt change anything	08:58
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iPeter-	anyone?	09:12
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LiraNuna	;_; @ vsync bug	09:23
LiraNuna	so annoying	09:23
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cehteh	vsync bug? .. there is no vsync at all :P	09:36
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LiraNuna	cehteh, yeah, that ;_;	09:41
cehteh	it cant be buggy when its not there :)	09:42
LiraNuna	meh, you know what I mean	09:42
cehteh	:P	09:42
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Stskeeps	luke-jr: meh, tokyo magnitude is depressing :P	10:09
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peb_	STSkeeps, are you based in Tokyo?	10:16
Stskeeps	no	10:16
Stskeeps	anime	10:16
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peb_	Ok, I should grab a cup of coffee first before joining IRC communications ..	10:16
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ljp	Stskeeps is an anime?	10:22
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RST38h	Hmmm	10:28
* Stskeeps ponders idly what the ubuntu guys were smoking when moving all buttons to left side of window		10:29
TermanaN900	ljp, as in the name of one? not an anime fan, but i dont think so	10:29
TermanaN900	Stskeeps is in an anime though	10:30
ljp	i guess its better than being a shell script	10:30
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RST38h	Stskeeps: were playing pocket billiards most likely	10:31
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Coke	Hi guys! My N900 disconnects rather often from the mobile internet and then cannot reconnect unless I do a restart. Is this a problem with my SIM-card, the carrier or Maemo?	10:34
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kejen	is there a spellchecker for microb? I would of bet my car there was before today, but seriously can't find one.	10:36
TermanaN900	Coke, have you tried in another phone?	10:36
toggles_w	anyone know how to delete modest contacts? if I delete a contact in the adress book modest for some reasno still hangs on to it..	10:36
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Coke	TermanaN900: no. sry.	10:37
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jacekowski	Tuco11: it's same address book as your contact list	10:38
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TermanaN900	Coke, mine never does it and i can stay connected basically all day. So i would say its something to do with your carrier or maybe the APN your using?	10:39
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Coke	TermanaN900: APN ?	10:41
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Coke	TermanaN900: yeah, might just be the carrier.	10:41
Coke	Just wanted to check with another N900 owner.	10:41
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kejen	anyone know about a spell checker for microb?	10:44
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jacekowski	yeah, brain	10:44
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Coke	TermanaN900: thanks for the reply!	10:46
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iPeter-	what could be wrong. i got tv cables, i connect it to tv and output is black. i hear sounds..	11:05
iPeter-	os maemo 5	11:05
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RST38h	iPeter: check PAL/NTSC mode selection	11:17
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iPeter-	RST38h: its on pal and here we use pal	11:23
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nidO	obvious question, you're plugging the cables into the right sort of 3-socket composite input, not rgb inputs, right?	11:30
RST38h	He must have got a SCART for RGB	11:31
* RST38h laughs satanically		11:31
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TermanaN900	RST38h, you laugh like that a lot lately - have you been to hell and back?	11:32
nidO	well, or hes trying to put the three composite cables into three of the 5 inputs available for component rgb :p	11:32
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nidO	thatd give sound if he gets the right one plugged in right, but no picture obviously	11:32
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iPeter-	no. it worked before n same tv, same cable..	11:35
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Khertan	Morning everyone	11:37
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iPeter-	its 3socet yellow, white and red, works on ext3 channel	11:37
iPeter-	RST38h: ..	11:37
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iPeter-	and when i plug it in, screen on tv changes from blue to black..	11:38
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kerio	so... is the front camera that crappy or it's just Mirror that sucks?	11:42
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jacekowski	front camera is the problem	11:42
X-Fade	Mirror doesn't use the sunglasses compensation :)	11:42
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MiXu-	Does it look equally crappy in video calls?	11:43
jacekowski	yes	11:43
X-Fade	No	11:43
jacekowski	yes	11:43
iPeter-	nope	11:43
X-Fade	They clean it up a bit.	11:43
MiXu-	Is it fullscreen in video call, or smaller?	11:43
jacekowski	well, it's still a crap	11:43
iPeter-	but anyone 2 my question?	11:43
iPeter-	smaller	11:44
X-Fade	jacekowski: Yes, but not as crappy :)	11:44
MiXu-	smaller -> doesn't look as crappy :)	11:44
MiXu-	small pile of shit is better than a big pile.	11:44
jacekowski	but it's still pile of shit	11:44
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DocScrutinizer	moin konttori	11:52
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Scelt	has nokia released yet any info about the first meego device? model name, prototype images or anything?	11:54
X-Fade	Scelt: Do you really think you'd need to ask that if so?	11:54
Stskeeps	Scelt: gruntmaster 3000	11:55
Scelt	thanks for the very precious information!	11:55
Scelt	you really answered my humble question	11:55
iPeter-	first meegodevice can make coffee	11:55
DocScrutinizer	any PR1.3 yet?	11:56
iPeter-	atleast that proto what they made	11:56
Scelt	you are so sweet guys	11:56
Scelt	thanks!	11:56
iPeter-	why i get only black screen when i connect my n900 to tv? i hear sounds from tv but no video..	11:57
DocScrutinizer	Scelt: Nokia never announces new items, the appear magically when they appear	11:57
iPeter-	Scelt: #meego	11:57
DocScrutinizer	~pr1.3	11:58
infobot	from memory, pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now.....	11:58
Myrtti	ohai	11:58
Scelt	DocScrutinizer: I've seen images of N8	11:58
DocScrutinizer	seems we should augment that to any new PR evrsion rsp new device	11:58
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DocScrutinizer	Scelt: there are also indications next device might be internal name RX-71, and maybe has no hw-kbd except a dialing block	12:01
Scelt	nice	12:02
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X-Fade	Hmmm FCam is cool.	12:04
X-Fade	This cam app really lets you play with a lot of settings :)	12:05
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DocScrutinizer	ooh?	12:11
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: blessn900 is not worth it anyway	12:11
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: No but FCam is the real deal.	12:12
DocScrutinizer	never heard of	12:12
X-Fade	Guys from Stanford made it.	12:12
DocScrutinizer	mhm. I found the pr1.2 genuine cam doing a really awesome job	12:13
X-Fade	Just got uploaded to extras-devel.	12:13
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X-Fade	This one shows light graph, does hdr, burst photos etc etc.	12:14
DocScrutinizer	mhm	12:14
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X-Fade	http://fcam.garage.maemo.org/	12:15
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jacekowski	any pics of that fcamera app?	12:21
kerio	cute	12:21
benno2	Hi, I installed the maemo5 sdk (scratchbox etc) on an Ubuntu 8 box and followed all the docs. I start the maemo window manager with af-sb-init.sh start, the desktop comes up but when opening a QDialog in my app (it has only an OK button) it does not come with the maemo style but looks like a button on the linux desktop.the fonts are too small too compared when running the code on the real device.that way it is hard to develop because I cannot always test on th	12:21
benno2	e device itself. is there a way to fix this to make the fonts on scratchbox and buttons look exactly as on the N900. thanks for infos!	12:21
amigadave	benno2: http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_development#Scratchbox	12:22
DocScrutinizer	damn nice to learn there are Nokia people still actively developing cool new stuff for maemo	12:22
amigadave	run-standalone.sh is probably what you need	12:23
benno2	amigadave, thanks alot works !! :)	12:25
benno2	DocScrutinizer, what new apps ? :)	12:25
DocScrutinizer	http://fcam.garage.maemo.org/	12:26
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benno2	DocScrutinizer, cool :)	12:33
jacekowski	that fcam thing isn't in repo	12:35
X-Fade	it is, extras-devel.	12:36
auenf	fcamera is in extras-devel, not fcam iirc	12:37
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jacekowski	it's either different extras-devel	12:37
X-Fade	fcamera, yes. The lib is fcam, sorry.	12:38
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benno2	amigadave, the strange thing I am experiencing on Qt Maemo is: I am using QPlainTextEdit (read only mode) to show some help text and even force the scrollbar to be visible and set textedit->setProperty("FingerScrollable", true); but even though the text is longer than what can be displayed on the QPlainTextEdit no scrollbar is showing up and there is no way to scroll it with the finger. on all other Qt platforms the code works (including symbian)	12:40
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amigadave	benno2: i do not know how to fix that, but the guys on #qt-maemo might know	12:42
benno2	amigadave, thanks. will ask. it sounds like a bug to me, because I just followed the Qt docs.	12:42
jacekowski	deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel fremantle free non-free	12:43
jacekowski	and nothing there	12:44
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jacekowski	hmm, it's HAM searchfail	12:45
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D-Iivil_Work	Someone here who can tell me how to set QComboBoxes to show my chosen value as current active value with QT / C++?	12:46
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D-Iivil_Work	I know I should use QComboBox::setCurrentText(), but I have no idea how to do it in practise.	12:51
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: I don't get it how download statistics is meant to be read	13:11
DocScrutinizer	how can there be falling curves in #dl/time graphs? how can number of downloads diminish? if that's not absolute total of dl, what else is it? Is there no dl-statistics for maemo-devel?	13:11
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: i would expect it's delta of downloads over time	13:32
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frals	DocScrutinizer: download stats where? the ones on maemo.org are #dl/per day	13:40
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timeless_mbp	2010-07-04 19:25:06.484 Nokia Device Browser[54465] [ASSERT] `[NSThread isMainThread]' -[MTMediaObject dealloc]:808 Method 'dealloc' of object <MTImageObject: 0x17368b20; storage=<MTMediaObjectLocalFileSystemStorage: 0x173272e0; name='20100504_002.jpg', filepath='/Users/timeless/Library/Caches/com.nokia.NokiaMultimediaTransfer/Devices/xxxxxxx.jpg'>> must be called from the main thread	13:54
timeless_mbp	oh this makes me so ....	13:54
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: "821" for Y axis, without any unit like "dl/day" or whatever, that doesn't make sense for a delta	13:56
DocScrutinizer	also it's daft	13:57
jacekowski	not really	13:57
jacekowski	it tells you how popularity of program has changed	13:57
jacekowski	but you can get that from total dl chart as well	13:57
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: y-axis: Downloads per day	13:57
jacekowski	besides, where do you see that ?	13:57
jacekowski	link	13:57
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: That is what it says for me at least :)	13:57
DocScrutinizer	oooh per day. Nice it's written clearly there	13:58
DocScrutinizer	anyway thanks X-Fade	13:58
jacekowski	tbf: mac?	13:58
jacekowski	timeless_mbp: mac?	13:58
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: can you show me where do you see that chart anyways	13:58
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Was worried I forgot something ;)	13:58
jacekowski	i was looking for it	13:58
timeless_mbp	yes	13:58
jacekowski	timeless_mbp: you see, i don't have that sort of problems on PC	13:59
timeless_mbp	really?	13:59
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: so the Y is actually moving window size 24h sigma?	13:59
timeless_mbp	is that because you don't use the sysinternals debugview application? :)	14:00
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DocScrutinizer	incredibly comlex, but easy if you once know about it. Just look at the absolute value every 24h	14:00
timeless_mbp	hrm, technet.microsoft.com just advertised ie8 to me	14:00
timeless_mbp	http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896647.aspx	14:01
timeless_mbp	fwiw is DbgView	14:01
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DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: maybe s/y-axis: Downloads per day/y-axis: Downloads during last 24h/	14:04
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Well that is just not true :)	14:04
DocScrutinizer	so what else is it then?	14:04
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: It shows you how many downloads there were on that day.	14:04
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X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: As you can see the date scale lags a day or two.	14:05
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DocScrutinizer	I can see that curve having continiously falling segments. That can't happen on a per-day graph	14:06
X-Fade	Sure it can: day1: 10 downloads, day2: 3 downloads. Nothing more, nothing less.	14:07
X-Fade	Don't look into it too deeply ;)	14:07
DocScrutinizer	a per-day graph is supposed to have discontinuities, on every window boundary aka date change	14:07
X-Fade	Ah, you'd like to see a bar graph or something like that?	14:08
DocScrutinizer	so it's a 24h fixed window extrapolated to simulate a moving window	14:08
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DocScrutinizer	with supporting points every 24h and interpolating in between	14:09
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DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: yes, I'd prefer a graph with constant value for 24h, and discontinuities/jumps every 24h boundary. Or call it a bargraph	14:15
DocScrutinizer	I mean dl/day constantly dropping during a day confuses shit out of a dtasheets reading EE	14:16
* frals agrees with DocScrutinizer		14:16
frals	bargraphs to the people!	14:17
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DocScrutinizer	a simple question on same topic: is there a statistic for extras-devel pkgs as well? Seem unable to find it	14:23
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* achipa wonders if there is an another WVGA armv7l Linux device with Flash 10.1, or did he just see an N9		14:24
TomaszD	lbt, the package is ready	14:25
Stskeeps	achipa: hmm?	14:25
DocScrutinizer	look at this for example: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/n900-i18n-pt-br/# I really don't get it what that means	14:27
achipa	Stskeeps: generating some stats on a few web servers... I maintain and I usually generate separate stats for mobile devices (to gauge popularity, etc), and I have a non-Android 800x480 armv7l with Flash 10.1 in the 'unclassified' section	14:27
tybollt	frals: I have too few bars on my N900 - can't nokia show me how to get more bars - like apple did to iphone 4? ;)	14:27
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achipa	tybollt: we need a sking that changes the bar sizes	14:28
achipa	s/sking/skin/	14:28
infobot	achipa meant: tybollt: we need a skin that changes the bar sizes	14:28
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DocScrutinizer	tybollt: I'll do that for you. please move 100 bucks to my account :-P	14:28
Stskeeps	achipa: webos?	14:28
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: :-)	14:28
MohammadAG51	Stskeeps, webOS has flash 10.1?	14:28
Stskeeps	dunno	14:29
achipa	MohammadAG51: has been announced for it, but not yet released	14:29
MohammadAG51	same as the N900 then?	14:29
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: what's the sory with meego and GPS? (sorry I know not completely on topic here)	14:29
DocScrutinizer	story even	14:29
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: don't know yet	14:30
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: I gather GPS needs a blob	14:30
achipa	MohammadAG51: nope, it has not even been announced for the N900 (nor MeeGo for that matter)	14:30
Stskeeps	afaik gps sits behind cellmo	14:30
DocScrutinizer	yep	14:30
Stskeeps	achipa: Movial will be doing ARM flash for meego, it seems like	14:30
DocScrutinizer	that's the tale	14:30
achipa	Stskeeps: i see, well, at least SOMEONE is working on it :)	14:31
MohammadAG51	hmm, can't that be backported?	14:31
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achipa	Stskeeps: nope, I checked, it's not a Pre	14:32
achipa	does anyone know the Flash version that comes with FroYo ?	14:33
achipa	(just to check if it is maybe a transplant hack)	14:33
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DocScrutinizer	though actually GPS (N6200) module is a separate chip largely unrelated to cellmo, and only is connected to system via i2c to RAPUYAMA cellmo, so basically cellmo just handing thru I'd say	14:33
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: ^^^	14:33
adalal	i have a quick question, is there a program to connect to a pptp vpn on maemo 5?	14:33
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: i think the more interesting question is if the gps thing will be a blob plugin inside geoclue or some other framework..	14:34
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: I guess that's mainly done to accomodate some weird GSM regulations demanding cellmo has direct access to GPS, for emergency signalling	14:34
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: that's possible	14:34
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: we haven't discussed gps yet since well, telephony and connectivity is higher priority	14:34
Stskeeps	:P	14:35
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: could you ask Nokia to document bridging from cellmo interface to the GPS I2C ?	14:35
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: as i said to luke earlier today, there used to be ISI headers talking about this stuff	14:36
DocScrutinizer	I'd not surprised to find N6200 even talking NMEA to RAPUYAMA cellmo	14:36
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DocScrutinizer	or at least being able to do so	14:37
DocScrutinizer	so if we could get a clean transparent bridging through rapuyama, we'd probably better off than with ISI	14:37
* DocScrutinizer does a quick lokup what chip N6200 actually is		14:38
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Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: could you ask me again in august when people are back? gps matter might be more than a few messages .. also, use case needed	14:44
hno	N6200?	14:44
hno	Ah, the GPS.	14:44
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: sure. And for usecase: reate FOSS driver for xxxx(wait a minute for s/xxxx/<real GPS chipname>/)	14:45
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alterego	Does ofono support a serial bridge?	14:46
alterego	I think I remember reading somewhere that there's an AT command to switch some kind of session/channel type thing.	14:46
alterego	But I don't recall	14:46
DocScrutinizer	MCS D761660CL	14:47
DocScrutinizer	=N6200 GPS chip	14:47
Stskeeps	navilink?	14:48
DocScrutinizer	Texas Instruments, NL5350, GPS - Single-Chip, A-GPS, NaviLink 5.0, MCS, D761660CL,	14:51
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Stskeeps	sure that's it?	14:53
Stskeeps	same chip as in n8x0	14:53
Stskeeps	er, n810	14:53
DocScrutinizer	quite sure about D761660CL,	14:53
Stskeeps	well, then help out with luke-jr's efforts :P	14:55
DocScrutinizer	the rest is a quote from http://www2.electronicproducts.com/Nokia_N900_Mobile_Phone-whatsinside_text-90.aspx - I'd say those dudes know what they are talking about	14:55
DocScrutinizer	help out with luke-jr ? what efforts?	14:55
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Stskeeps	he spent a bunch of time reverse engineering n810's gpsdriver	14:55
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DocScrutinizer	ooh I see	14:55
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Stskeeps	any news on the serial console work or charging?	14:59
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SpeedEvil	luke-jr: ping	15:13
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: re: gps packet how	15:14
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SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: n810s gpsdriver work is mostly unimportant	15:15
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: simply as that driver is inside the cellmo.	15:15
Stskeeps	fair enough	15:15
SpeedEvil	On n810 (and indeed neo1973 and some other devices) around 60MHZ CPU was used to do the required sums for that GPS. On the n900 - this does not happen	15:16
SpeedEvil	So the cellmo is doing it	15:16
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer Download statistics where?	15:17
the_lord	Pforce, Hi, I've just downloaded your dropn900 package, thx	15:18
the_lord	Pforce, just one observation, you should include python-qt4 in the deependencies	15:18
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12776&contentId=30978	15:18
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: [2010-07-21 13:35:49] <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: could you ask Nokia to document bridging from cellmo interface to the GPS I2C ?	15:19
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: ( DocScrutinizer Download statistics where?) that's been the question	15:19
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frals	http://maemo.org/download-stats/fetch.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5 replace fmms with packagename	15:21
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SpeedEvil	ah - right	15:23
MiXu-	frals: For me that just shows code of presumably fetch.php :o	15:23
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: those statstics are summations of the downloads from midnight to midnight	15:23
SpeedEvil	MiXu-: naah	15:23
SpeedEvil	MiXu-: those are unix timestamps of midnights, and download counts for that day	15:24
MiXu-	oh, I see	15:24
MiXu-	wohoo, my app has been downloaded 54 times	15:24
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/download-stats/index.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5&repo=extras	15:25
SpeedEvil	for example	15:25
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: yep, as I said above: support point every 24h (actually looks like every 48h) and then just "drawing lines in between points" which are largely meanngless	15:25
SpeedEvil	that shows a nice graph	15:25
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SpeedEvil	yes	15:25
MiXu-	Me testing stuff represents probably at least 15 downloads ;)	15:25
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: ooh this URL looks decent	15:25
DocScrutinizer	thanks	15:25
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frals	bah, my numbers are low, need to push a new version!	15:26
SpeedEvil	If you look closely, it does in fact have data every 24h	15:26
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DocScrutinizer	I still don't get it anyway. What is this http://maemo.org/download-stats/index.php?unixname=starhash-enabler&os=Maemo5&repo=extras-devel telling me now?	15:28
SpeedEvil	Did you upload it yesterday?	15:29
frals	first day you had 82 downloads, second 137	15:29
SpeedEvil	It's telling you that...	15:29
SpeedEvil	yeah that	15:29
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DocScrutinizer	does that mean 2 days ago ( a period that has no predecessor so it isn't shown) it was ... err yep	15:30
SpeedEvil	so if you haven't pushed a new version, you probably have around 82+137 downloaders	15:30
SpeedEvil	minus ones that have redownloaded it for some reason	15:30
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DocScrutinizer	ok, seems semi-clear now	15:32
DocScrutinizer	just confusing like hell	15:32
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DocScrutinizer	I'd really prefer absolute since epoch dl-numbers, or at least bargraphs if you're actually showing 24h fixed window #dl	15:34
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: look at that http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/n900-i18n-pt-br/# I really get confused what to read from it	15:35
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DocScrutinizer	you don't tell me there's a 5 days period with absolutely linear decay of dl/day?	15:36
DocScrutinizer	hell that's screwed	15:37
SpeedEvil	when?	15:37
frals	he had 5 days of nearly the same dl/day, then a spike of 500	15:37
SpeedEvil	yeah	15:37
SpeedEvil	it's not integrating downloads/day	15:37
SpeedEvil	it's showing the raw figure	15:38
DocScrutinizer	oooh, looks different hat 60min ago	15:38
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DocScrutinizer	also this one has two highlighted periods: jul10..12 and jul17..19. Is that just weekend or what?	15:40
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lcuk	bastard dissing our n900 in comments on youtube @/	15:41
DocScrutinizer	frals: an hour ago it was a different scale on Y, due to the spike at end missing. And it was a completely straight line going down from something like 83 to 60 over 5 days. You'd not expect 5 days in sequence are such exactly linear decay	15:42
DocScrutinizer	more looks like there were no data points during that period and line was drawn from jul12 to jul17	15:43
DocScrutinizer	or somesuch	15:43
SpeedEvil	look at the raw - php - data	15:43
DocScrutinizer	mhm	15:43
DocScrutinizer	nah, can't find that, just 28 lines of embedded js. nevermind. it's just confusing like hell, and largely meaningless or counter-intuitive	15:45
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DocScrutinizer	I wish I could find a decent datasheet about NL5350	15:49
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SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/download-stats/fetch.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5	15:51
SpeedEvil	$(function () { var d = [[1262901600000,134],[1262988000000,626],[1263074400000,807],[1263160800000,917],[1263247200000,1898],[1263333600000,1189],[1263420000000,1289],[1263506400000,330],[1263765600000,1322],[1263852000000,1382],[1263938400000,1126],[1264024800000,1954],[1264111200000,2272],[1264197600000,1658],[1264284000000,992],[1264370400000,624],[1264456800000,397],[1264543200000,2274],[1264629600000,2311],[1264716000000,965],[1264802400000	15:51
SpeedEvil	the pairs are time, and count.	15:51
oKtosiTe	Hello. On my N900, if I pair with certain phones, they can browse my files. I want to do it the other way around, and browse another phone's files. Anyone?	15:51
SpeedEvil	time in seconds after epoch	15:51
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: thanks :-)	15:53
DocScrutinizer	now if I'd bother that much and was really good in webshit, I could write my own CSS displaying bargraphs of a constant width of 24h for each tuple, instead of drawing a meaningless line between all the support points	15:54
alterego	oh, the pain	15:56
SpeedEvil	Or you just use gnuplot	15:57
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zash	svg!	15:57
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SpeedEvil	awk 'NR==1{split($7,a,"]");for(x=1;x in a;x++){split(a[x],b,"[,");print b[2],b[3]}}' or something	15:59
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DocScrutinizer	mhm	16:01
DocScrutinizer	slightly more complex than var plot = $.plot($("#placeholder"), [d], options);	16:01
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DocScrutinizer	thanks for keeping patient with me :-)	16:02
DocScrutinizer	cya	16:03
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: ...	16:13
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drizztbsd	hi, where can I find the maemo kernel only?	16:14
drizztbsd	I loaded the meego kernel and I want to return to the maemo one	16:15
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hno	drizztbsd: the power users kernel is in the maemo repositories.. not sure where the original kernel is.	16:18
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* hno is also not sure why one woult want to run the original kernel instead of the power user variant..		16:18
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drizztbsd	hno: because I don't care about the power kernel modifications?	16:19
dotblank	hmm	16:19
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alterego	drizztbsd: I unpacked mine from the fiasco image.	16:22
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hno	drizztbsd: Some forum posts say "apt-get install --reinstall kernel kernel-flasher"	16:23
hno	which makes a bit of sense.	16:23
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alterego	hno: I think he's stuck on meego at the moment ...	16:25
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DocScrutinizer	(GPS NL5350) http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0jl7pGiHencJ:lgf.pastebin.com/NB3gDF0E+nl5350&cd=11&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de	16:27
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: ??	16:27
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luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: wanna help with GPS?	16:27
DocScrutinizer	wanna exploit GPS, plus GPS in meego-N900 / SHR / free&open GPS in maemo...	16:28
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luke-jr	..	16:31
alterego	Is that android gpsd open? :)	16:31
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: get a fix and strace -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1\|grep '\| 000'	16:31
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: o.O	16:31
DocScrutinizer	alterego: dunno	16:32
DocScrutinizer	just found it and felt like sharing	16:32
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: pastebin some output plz	16:32
DocScrutinizer	k	16:32
DocScrutinizer	mompls	16:32
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alterego	did nothing for me luke-jr	16:35
alterego	ah no strace :)	16:35
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crashanddie	SpeedEvil: watch out with the heavy function dumps	16:38
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: ?	16:39
alterego	luke-jr: lots of output, same segment. is that what you're looking for?	16:40
luke-jr	alterego: maybe	16:40
alterego	luke-jr: do you want a couple of blocks?	16:40
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: meh, TTFF = epoch	16:40
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luke-jr	alterego: yeah	16:41
alterego	luke-jr: http://pastie.org/1053666	16:41
luke-jr	alterego: specifically, I'm working with ones of length 0xcc	16:41
alterego	all done on my N900 directly from bed :D	16:42
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luke-jr	alterego: care to share lat/lon for reference? :P	16:42
alterego	52	16:42
luke-jr	alterego: can you get any 0xcc-length ones?	16:43
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: what?	16:43
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SpeedEvil	luke-jr: what's needed?	16:43
SpeedEvil	oh	16:43
alterego	luke-jr: 52.0818 0.01789	16:43
alterego	luke-jr: how?	16:43
luke-jr	alterego: 0xcc is a row labelled 000c0 with 8 + 4 columns	16:44
luke-jr	the actual packets are variable length; I haven't identified what controls that aspect yet	16:44
alterego	weird, it's not outputting 000c	16:45
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luke-jr	at all?	16:45
alterego	Nope	16:45
luke-jr	hmm	16:45
alterego	Those blocks were direct copy paste.	16:45
luke-jr	right	16:45
luke-jr	mine tend to vary in length	16:45
alterego	Oh wait, okay	16:45
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alterego	I'd imagne the longer ones are sat info that gets updated every 5 seconds rather than the positional data which is every second.	16:48
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luke-jr	alterego: not likely	16:49
luke-jr	I get about 4 or 5 concurrent at times	16:49
luke-jr	s/concurrent/sequential	16:49
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alterego	Yeah, noticed that tooo...	16:51
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: still no fix :-(	16:51
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alterego	luke-jr: reload that pastie and I added a 000c0 length one.	16:52
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alterego	Would you prefer it if I just created a file and uploaded it? :)	16:52
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SpeedEvil	luke-jr: is there a nice way tot turn on gps?	16:53
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luke-jr	SpeedEvil: advanced geocaching tool thing locks GPS on	16:55
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SpeedEvil	That would mean I need to go outside though...	16:56
SpeedEvil	hmm	16:56
luke-jr	lol	16:56
alterego	Heh	16:56
luke-jr	why	16:56
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SpeedEvil	phone is outside, in greenhouse, with a clear view of the sky	16:57
SpeedEvil	I forgot to turn GPS on.	16:57
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alterego	SpeedEvil: run: http://alterego.metapath.org/Columbus	16:58
DocScrutinizer	blargh. had to close all apps using GPS, and restart gpsjinni -> fix after 30s	16:59
alterego	It just d#ispays GPS info, but it'll start the gps :)	16:59
benno2	question: I have 2 targets in scratchbox: armel and x86.I test the apps in the x86 targets because I can use pulseaudio etc. I installed subversion on the armel target and it works. but when I change to the x86 target I don't see subversion as installable package. any idea how to do it ?	16:59
DocScrutinizer	really, seems if GPS doesn't manage to get a fix in less than 60s, it never recovers	16:59
Macer	hm	16:59
Macer	what do you do to extract a rar with a password with unrar non-free?	17:00
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Macer	i thought it was -p	17:00
Macer	man page is lacking	17:00
alterego	Macer: I thought it prompted...	17:00
SpeedEvil	alterego: that's a binary?	17:00
Macer	hm	17:00
Macer	alterego: me too	17:00
alterego	SpeedEvil: yeah, it's a Qt app I'm working on.	17:00
Macer	guess i will just write it off	17:00
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: http://paste.debian.net/81061/	17:01
SpeedEvil	k	17:01
SpeedEvil	./Columbus: error while loading shared libraries: libQtLocation.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory	17:02
SpeedEvil	- prerequisites?	17:02
alterego	Hrm, I thought PR1.2 ...	17:02
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: where at?	17:03
alterego	It'll be 1t mobility or location or something	17:03
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alterego	That's a pain.	17:03
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: no 0xcc-length pkts in yours	17:04
alterego	luke-jr: almost half a meg for you: http://alterego.metapath.org/strace_location-daemon.dump	17:04
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: 49.45/11.05	17:04
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: what do you need?	17:04
DocScrutinizer	0xcc length??	17:05
Macer	hm	17:05
Macer	got it	17:05
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: yeah, some packets are 0xcc bytes long	17:05
Macer	seems like it didnt want to extract over nfs for some reason	17:05
Macer	odd	17:05
alterego	luke-jr: I've had some go over OxDO	17:05
DocScrutinizer	so longer than normal	17:05
DocScrutinizer	?	17:05
Macer	ah well. whatever :)	17:05
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: pretty normal for me	17:05
* DocScrutinizer shrugs		17:05
alterego	Macer: readonly fs? :P	17:05
DocScrutinizer	tell me what exactly you want me to do	17:06
alterego	luke-jr: if you'd like I could get my app to log all the gps info in a more user friendly manner and time stamp both. Might help you correlate?	17:06
Macer	alterego: no	17:07
Macer	checked that ;)	17:07
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luke-jr	alterego: maybe :)	17:07
alterego	Heh	17:07
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: that strace cmd; find packets with 0xcc length :)	17:07
alterego	luke-jr: did my previous dump help you at all? :)	17:07
DocScrutinizer	find: pckets : file not found	17:08
luke-jr	alterego: yes	17:08
alterego	cool.	17:08
DocScrutinizer	:-P	17:08
alterego	heh	17:08
luke-jr	I identified a couple of regions that change only when on the other side of the world	17:08
alterego	Cool	17:08
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alterego	Maybe we could start a tmo campaign to get users to run this command and give you a larger dataset	17:09
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luke-jr	7, 20,21, 24,25, 32, 36, 40,41, 56, 6d, c4..cc	17:09
luke-jr	once I get a fix, I can probably turn some of those into "change over hours"	17:10
luke-jr	but it's very cloudy and raining	17:10
luke-jr	:/	17:10
alterego	Urgh	17:10
DocScrutinizer	strace -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1\|grep -B 12 '\| 000c' ??	17:10
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: is it that what you need?	17:10
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: no, I need the full packet, not just the last line	17:11
DocScrutinizer	-B 12 !!	17:11
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: as a human you need to manually pick out ones with cc length	17:11
DocScrutinizer	no I won't	17:11
luke-jr	fine, jerk!	17:11
luke-jr	:p	17:11
luke-jr	on the brightside, kdebase 4.4 just finished installing on my N900	17:12
alterego	Heh	17:12
DocScrutinizer	dude, no luck on packets with a line starting "\| 000c"	17:12
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: could you please verify my above quoted cmd will yield what you need, please!	17:14
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: as I told you, it won't.	17:14
DocScrutinizer	why?	17:14
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luke-jr	because when you do find a packet the correct length, I need all the lines, not just the one starting with 000c	17:15
DocScrutinizer	-B NUM, --before-context=NUM	17:15
DocScrutinizer	Print NUM lines of leading context before matching lines. Places a line containing a group separator (--)	17:15
alterego	Because you're greping for lines that have 000c	17:15
alterego	Oh, that might wolrk then :P	17:15
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DocScrutinizer	so again!!	17:15
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: could you please verify my above quoted cmd will yield what you need, please!	17:16
luke-jr	oh	17:16
luke-jr	missed that	17:16
luke-jr	maybe	17:16
alterego	I'll give it a go as I'm getting lots of c0.s	17:17
DocScrutinizer	still no hit here	17:17
luke-jr	I'm only getting b* now; I suspect because no fix	17:17
DocScrutinizer	that's why I ask for verification of syntax/semantics	17:17
alterego	Works for me :)	17:18
luke-jr	it's possible 3D fix is needed for cc length	17:18
DocScrutinizer	I have 3D	17:18
alterego	Some are d0 though ...	17:18
alterego	And they get truncated ..	17:18
DocScrutinizer	altitude 335.50+/-4.50	17:19
luke-jr	hmm	17:19
alterego	Is there anything that appears to increment (the time) ...	17:19
DocScrutinizer	Nokia-N900-02-8:~# strace -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1\|grep -B 1 '\| 0001'	17:20
DocScrutinizer	\| 00000 00 92 01 00 00 00 00 02 02 00 00 00 09 02 00 1c ........ ........ \|	17:20
DocScrutinizer	\| 00010 23 29 d6 60 07 dc 98 fd 00 00 04 54 00 00 0e 69 #).`.... ...T...i \|	17:20
DocScrutinizer	--	17:20
DocScrutinizer	\| 00000 00 92 01 00 00 00 00 02 04 00 00 00 09 03 00 10 ........ ........ \|	17:20
DocScrutinizer	Nokia-N900-02-8:~# strace -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1\|grep -B 12 '\| 000c'	17:20
DocScrutinizer	bada	17:20
DocScrutinizer	nada	17:20
DocScrutinizer	blargh bada	17:20
alterego	yuk, did you have to do that :P	17:21
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luke-jr	alterego: a number of areas seems to increment	17:22
alterego	Is it true that 0x00 to 0x0f are static?	17:22
luke-jr	alterego: except for that byte I mentioned earlier	17:22
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: ok screwit - no 0xcc length backets here, actually nothing >= 000c0	17:23
luke-jr	two viable time groups: ad,ae,af or bb,bc,bd	17:23
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luke-jr	alterego: byte 7 is different between you and I	17:23
alterego	I was thinking 0x1a - 0x1b	17:24
DocScrutinizer	is there anything else I can be on service for you, oh master	17:24
luke-jr	1a,1b are always 00 00 here	17:24
alterego	really? they're incrementing on mine ...	17:24
luke-jr	the one you sent me has them 00 00 too	17:25
alterego	strage, every now and again they reset to zero	17:25
alterego	apparently randomly.	17:25
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alterego	I'm going to write some scripts to do some analysis	17:25
luke-jr	5b seems to be a packet counter	17:26
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DocScrutinizer	k, obviously not	17:26
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DocScrutinizer	cya	17:26
alterego	Have you managed to actually decode any meaning at all? :)	17:26
luke-jr	yes	17:26
luke-jr	3c,3d make up your direction of motion in hundredths of a degree	17:26
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luke-jr	aka 'track'	17:27
alterego	Wow, that's accurate ..	17:27
luke-jr	2e,2f is eph in cm	17:27
alterego	Nice.	17:27
alterego	Do you have a wiki page?	17:27
luke-jr	no	17:27
alterego	Would be cool if we could colabborate ..	17:27
alterego	~collaborate ..	17:27
alterego	Okay, this should be nicer	17:30
alterego	Got that strace command pushing via netcat to a script I can edit on my laptop :)	17:30
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alterego	(using tee to save to file) :)	17:30
DocScrutinizer	netcat paste.dyndns.org 1234 :-P	17:31
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alterego	DocScrutinizer: what's that?	17:31
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alterego	Wow, the pain has actually gone from my mouth.	17:31
alterego	And I don't feel dizzy anymore.	17:32
alterego	Still a golf ball on my face though ..	17:32
* DocScrutinizer fetching the putter		17:32
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alterego	Heh	17:33
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PhonicUK	hey all	17:34
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: (wiki)	17:36
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DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS	17:36
DocScrutinizer	~hail SpeedEvil	17:36
* infobot bows down to SpeedEvil and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"		17:36
kerio	HAIL	17:37
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luke-jr	alterego: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_GPS_Reverse_Engineering	17:37
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: ?	17:37
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alterego	luke-jr: nice :)	17:39
alterego	luke-jr: When I sad 1a,1b I actually meant 18,19 ..	17:40
alterego	:)	17:40
jacekowski	somebody reversed gps?	17:40
alterego	luke-jr: Seem to be both TS TS ..	17:41
lcuk	well, half of 4chan think the liqbase AR is fake, the other half want to screw some star trek babe. on average i think its been taken quite well	17:41
alterego	Hah	17:41
jacekowski	lcuk: link	17:41
alterego	I've got a friend who's a mod at 4chan ..	17:41
lcuk	i got a google hit on it a bit ago, http://boards.4chan.org/g/res/12178989	17:42
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: ok - running	17:42
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: what do you want run again?	17:42
jacekowski	lcuk: they will stalk you	17:43
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jacekowski	lcuk: like they did with boxxy	17:43
jacekowski	lcuk: and jessi slaughter	17:43
lcuk	the tv service?	17:43
jacekowski	lcuk: be prepared to take hundreds of pizzas	17:43
jacekowski	lcuk: and loads of spam	17:43
jacekowski	lcuk: you will have to move out of your house	17:44
jacekowski	lcuk: stop using all facebooklike apps	17:44
luke-jr	alterego: 18,19 seem to always be unpredictably different for me	17:44
jacekowski	and sites*	17:44
Termana	I'm sorry, but are you newfags breaking rules 2 & 3?	17:44
lcuk	nice to know jacekowski :S	17:44
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luke-jr	SpeedEvil: strace -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1\|grep -B 12 '\| 000c'	17:44
jacekowski	don't mess witch 4chan	17:44
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jacekowski	or 4chan will mess with you	17:44
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jacekowski	hmm, they will mess with you regardless	17:44
alterego	luke-jr: well, 18 seems to increment and 19 seems to be unpredictable, like miliseconds or something.	17:45
jacekowski	ehh	17:45
jacekowski	just open liblocation	17:45
jacekowski	or location-daemon	17:45
luke-jr	..	17:45
jacekowski	in disassembler	17:45
luke-jr	jacekowski: then I can't write my replacement	17:45
luke-jr	jacekowski: wanna make some asm observations for us? :P	17:45
jacekowski	you can	17:45
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luke-jr	no, that wouldn't be clean-room/legal	17:45
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jacekowski	give me a second	17:46
jacekowski	i'll do it	17:46
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luke-jr	don't paste anything, just observe and comment on it :P	17:46
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TomaszD	what are you guys doing?	17:47
jacekowski	what's the name of binary that's doing that stuff?	17:48
steinex	erm	17:48
steinex	when i connect to my phone via usb networking and want to do something unter /home/user/MyDocs i just get 'red-only filesystem'	17:48
steinex	how to fix that?	17:48
SpeedEvil	lcuk http://www.mauve.plus.com/log	17:48
jacekowski	ok	17:48
jacekowski	i have it	17:48
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: http://www.mauve.plus.com/log	17:49
SpeedEvil	ah - ok - not quite	17:49
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: ok - first log uploaded to that file	17:50
SpeedEvil	It will carry on updating every 10 mins	17:50
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kerio	red-only?	17:50
steinex	read-only of course	17:50
steinex	sorry.	17:50
kerio	no green or blue?	17:50
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SpeedEvil	steinex: what are you connecting it via/	17:51
steinex	SpeedEvil: usb networking (PC Suite Mode)	17:52
steinex	then i ssh in from my linux box	17:52
SpeedEvil	steinex: not mass storage?	17:52
alterego	luke-jr: now tell me this doesn't increment: http://pastie.org/1053744	17:52
steinex	SpeedEvil: then it is definitely read-only, so no.	17:52
alterego	Those are consecutive 0x10 lines	17:52
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: ah	17:53
jacekowski	liblas?	17:53
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: would the corresponding gpx be useful	17:53
jacekowski	any info on liblas?	17:53
luke-jr	alterego: my definition of increment is strict :)	17:53
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: if you can get 1:1 mappings	17:53
alterego	luke-jr: well, I think it's a time stamp :P	17:54
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luke-jr	SpeedEvil: otherwise, approximate coords would be handy	17:54
SpeedEvil	<trkpt lat="56.216719" lon="-3.112165"> <ele>107.5</ele> <time>2010-07-21T14:39:35Z</time> <sat>9</sat>	17:55
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jacekowski	so we've got no idea what liblas is doing?	17:55
alterego	luke-jr: I've found an anomoly too ..	17:55
jacekowski	hmmm	17:56
jacekowski	ooo	17:56
jacekowski	i know	17:56
jacekowski	http://liblas.org/faq.html	17:56
jacekowski	There is a number of geospatial software packages that support read/write of ASPRS LAS Format	17:56
alterego	0x10 contained something completely random ..	17:56
steinex	damn damn damn. i ssh into my n900, rm -rf /home/user/MyDocs/Musik/*	17:58
steinex	after a few seconds at goes into read-only again and the n900 needs a reboot	17:58
steinex	i don't get it.	17:58
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steinex	extremely frustrating	17:59
jacekowski	so going back to location-daemon	18:00
jacekowski	how do you get coordintes from it	18:00
alterego	luke-jr: I'm right: 18,19 is thousandths of seconds	18:00
jacekowski	via dbus?	18:00
jacekowski	but does it send them automaticaly	18:00
jacekowski	?	18:00
GAN900	Anybody have any experience with eCoach heartrate monitors?	18:01
kerio	steinex: run a fsck	18:01
alterego	luke-jr: so, it is strict, it's strictly incrememnting by 1000 ever second :P	18:02
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steinex	kerio: this is the vfat partition...	18:03
kerio	your point?	18:03
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alterego	luke-jr: 16 is minutes I believe ..	18:04
lcuk	jacekowski, the comments dont seem to be going off the mad side (people like it!), but ill try contacting the administrator if they get out of hand	18:04
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* RST38h yawns		18:05
RST38h	helo lcuk	18:05
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luke-jr	alterego: I concur	18:07
jacekowski	lcuk: have you considered buying reinforced front doors?	18:07
jacekowski	lcuk: and maybe electric fence?	18:07
alterego	luke-jr: not sure what 17 is, but 16 is clearly minutes	18:07
Stskeeps	like my polish apartment, heh	18:08
steinex	kerio: thanks.	18:08
alterego	luke-jr: and 15 is UTC hours	18:08
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: alterego - http://www.mauve.plus.com/log and http://www.mauve.plus.com/gpx - corresponding log and gpx	18:08
SpeedEvil	log with strace -t -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1\|awk '/^[0-9][0-9]:[0-9][0-9]/{t=$1;next}/^ \|/{print t,$0}' >log	18:08
alterego	Currently for me it says 15:08	18:08
jacekowski	.text:0000A6C0 - that's where function processing that shit starts	18:09
luke-jr	alterego: right	18:09
alterego	Woo! I found a timestamp :D	18:09
lcuk	jacekowski, you make it sound so pleasant	18:09
SpeedEvil	Annoyingly the gpx has not updated yet	18:09
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alterego	luke-jr: 0x10, 0x11 year	18:10
steinex	kerio: now rsync even works in mass storage note...	18:10
steinex	mode*	18:10
alterego	luke-jr: I'm sure you can guess the rest	18:10
alterego	0x12 month	18:11
alterego	0x13 day :)	18:11
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: alterego - however - the above timestamp is right	18:11
ieatlint	i'm going to take a real shot in the dark here... but does anyone here have a squareup dongle and an n900 who wants to test something?	18:11
luke-jr	great	18:12
luke-jr	now we can implement ntpd GPS support	18:12
luke-jr	:P	18:12
alterego	Heeheee	18:13
alterego	Hey, It's my first go at decoding this :P	18:13
alterego	SpeedEvil: sure, and what I'm saying directly corrosponds with your timestamp :P	18:13
alterego	luke-jr: otoh, I don't actually know what I'm looking at. Where are these blocks of data actually coming from?	18:14
luke-jr	alterego: the cellmo	18:14
alterego	Oh, nice.	18:14
alterego	Can we get to it without location-daemon?	18:14
SpeedEvil	:)	18:15
alterego	luke-jr: I hope this contains some more detailed information that we get with liblocation ..	18:15
luke-jr	unlikely	18:15
alterego	And am I going to get arrested?	18:15
luke-jr	or rather	18:15
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luke-jr	we can get it w/o location-daemon I hope	18:15
luke-jr	but probably no more details	18:15
luke-jr	I just want to get rid of location-daemon	18:15
luke-jr	:)	18:15
SpeedEvil	Ok - if anyonemight find it interesting - the corresponding gpx file has now updated	18:16
alterego	luke-jr: sure, that'd be progress enough.	18:16
SpeedEvil	(the gpx logger only flushes caches every 64k)	18:16
trip0	hrm	18:16
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SpeedEvil	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337	18:17
povbot	Bug 5337: Ovi Maps gives up finding GPS lock too soon	18:17
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trip0	lol	18:17
* SpeedEvil loves the smell of expired certificates in the morning.		18:17
lcuk	STILL	18:17
lcuk	theres a bug on there but no1 can get on to vote it up	18:17
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GAN900	It's not like b.m.o is going to get you anywhere productive anyway.	18:20
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GAN900	The unrenewed cert is just a subtle hint from Nokia.	18:20
trip0	uh oh	18:20
Stskeeps	or 'july'	18:20
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: alterego https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1839	18:20
SpeedEvil	clear-gps-cache - may be interesting	18:21
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alterego	SpeedEvil: what is it?	18:21
alterego	Ah, an ARM executable	18:22
alterego	What's liblas again?	18:23
SpeedEvil	Ah - excitement - live action video!	18:24
SpeedEvil	http://www.mauve.plus.com/rat.avi	18:24
SpeedEvil	A life or death drama - when the bastard finally gets there	18:25
luke-jr	0x20 is almost certainly related to latitude	18:26
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Stskeeps	you're actually disassembling the comm protocol to cellmo in this area? :P	18:26
luke-jr	just inducing things from packet captures	18:27
luke-jr	latitude / 360 * 256 = byte 0x20	18:28
jacekowski	not really	18:28
luke-jr	for all 3 cases I have	18:28
jacekowski	it's floating point	18:28
luke-jr	f u jacekowski :P	18:28
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alterego	Not sure how to decode floating point.	18:29
jacekowski	0x10	18:29
alterego	(in ruby)	18:29
luke-jr	jacekowski: ...	18:29
luke-jr	we already determined 0x10 and the bytes following it are date and time	18:30
jacekowski	hmm, maybe it's different offset in code here	18:30
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alterego	luke-jr: I did find that 0x10 occasionally gave me a completely random 16 bytes ..	18:32
alterego	Well, probably not random obviously, but nonsensical as far as what I discovered as the datetime stamp.	18:33
alterego	Ah, just did it again.	18:33
alterego	Oh, this is interesting.	18:33
Stskeeps	..checksum?	18:34
Stskeeps	:P	18:34
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luke-jr	alterego: on a 0xcc length packet?	18:35
slonopotamus	something's going on	18:35
luke-jr	alterego: other lengths don't seem to have the same alignment at all	18:35
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jacekowski	do we know what's the 0x01?	18:35
alterego	luke-jr: I'll let you know in a minute :P	18:35
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: LMAO @ http://boards.4chan.org/g/res/12178989	18:35
lcuk	yes DocScrutinizer	18:36
jacekowski	they are going to stalk him	18:37
jacekowski	like they stalked boxxy and jessi slaughter	18:37
visz	heh	18:37
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: pkg comes with instructions about to place sme ceiling lamps or the like nearby?	18:37
lcuk	why cant they just help me code it :P	18:37
visz	"its fake though?"	18:37
lcuk	visz, its not fake :(	18:37
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lcuk	i explain it here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58589	18:38
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: how good is that thing on Z axis?	18:38
visz	yeah, but it's so magical that people think it's fake	18:39
lcuk	it can scale quite happily but my detection is pretty flatworld and expects the ratios of the triangle to not be too far off square	18:39
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lcuk	visz, most people dont think its fake, they do however think its related directly to the paper	18:40
alterego	luke-jr: no, but there is something excemely interesting that happens ..	18:40
slonopotamus	luke-jr, jacekowski: what are you doing?	18:40
achipa	what ? did PR1.3 get released ? TMO is load spiraling...	18:40
luke-jr	slonopotamus: mapping the phonet GPS protocol	18:40
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alterego	luke-jr: the first 4 bytes are some kind of message header	18:42
alterego	I've got a nice paste for you to check out.	18:43
jacekowski	0x01 is event id	18:43
alterego	Ah, that makes sense.	18:44
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jacekowski	it can be either 1 or 5 or	18:44
jacekowski	hmmm	18:44
DocScrutinizer	alterego: check back with NMEA	18:45
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jacekowski	0x0d - tracking ongoing	18:45
DocScrutinizer	alterego: I bet there are parallels	18:45
alterego	Check this out: http://pastie.org/1053820	18:45
jacekowski	well, 0x0d - tracking status	18:45
alterego	Strange 4 byte packets :P	18:45
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jacekowski	and 0x04 would be status in 0x0d packet	18:46
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: mode switch?	18:46
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DocScrutinizer	like SI / SO?	18:46
alterego	Possibly, don't really know.	18:46
jacekowski	SI SO?	18:47
alterego	Actually, I think it's bad processing.	18:47
DocScrutinizer	aka shift-in shift-out	18:47
alterego	Garbage	18:47
DocScrutinizer	ASCII	18:47
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DocScrutinizer	check against NMEA	18:48
alterego	After an 00 7d 01 01 the date stamp is F8cked	18:48
DocScrutinizer	will give you ideas	18:48
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jacekowski	well, so tracking status message is 0x0d	18:52
jacekowski	if you can catch it it would be nice	18:52
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jacekowski	0x82 - gps state	18:53
alterego	Ah, time is garbage when it doesn't have a lock	18:53
jacekowski	is anybody making notes?	18:54
alterego	Got a wikipage	18:54
alterego	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_GPS_Reverse_Engineering	18:55
alterego	luke-jr: it's not time seconds and milliseconds, it's just milliseconds ..	18:55
DocScrutinizer	alterego: jacekowski: also inspiring: http://www.u-blox.com/de/download-center.html?task=view.download&cid=46	18:57
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DocScrutinizer	sorry can't check here :-/	18:57
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DocScrutinizer	but I know ublox is really good in documentation, and the protocol probably gives you some ideas what you're facing here	18:58
DocScrutinizer	UBX protocol	18:58
alterego	bloody chm :P	18:58
DocScrutinizer	yep :-S	18:58
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DocScrutinizer	seem to remember there's been some tool on linux to unpack or display it, but fail to find any	19:00
luke-jr	alterego: it has seconds too	19:00
luke-jr	gtg bbl	19:01
DocScrutinizer	same here	19:01
DocScrutinizer	o/	19:01
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alterego	luke-jr: where?	19:02
luke-jr	17000 ms = 17 seconds	19:02
alterego	luke-jr: luke-jr yes	19:02
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alterego	but that's not hte unit of mesasurement here.	19:03
alterego	It's in milliseconds.	19:03
alterego	You have to get seconds by dividing by 1000	19:03
luke-jr	it's in milliseconds, but it contains seconds	19:03
luke-jr	that's the point	19:03
luke-jr	:p	19:03
alterego	No, seconds contain milliseconds :P	19:03
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alterego	Those two bytes are clearly milliseconds.	19:03
DocScrutinizer	there's also a field for elabsed leap-seconds :-P	19:04
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DocScrutinizer	12 iirc - nowadays	19:04
alterego	Oh yeah	19:04
alterego	Forgot about that.	19:04
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DocScrutinizer	and then we even got some geostationary sats to broadcast auxiliary info	19:06
DocScrutinizer	not many chipsets know about these or use them	19:06
alterego	Aren't those private	19:06
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alterego	And probably millitary too :P	19:06
DocScrutinizer	maybe. I just heard about it, and wondered why most docs and howto never mention them	19:07
PhonicUK	hey all	19:07
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slonopotamus	alterego: "private" and "broadcast" do not work together well	19:08
alterego	Well, I know some private institutions do differential GPS with 3rd party satellites.	19:08
DocScrutinizer	checkout u-blox. They are cool, they are Swiss, and they got uebercool whitepapers and docs	19:08
alterego	slonopotamus: I guess not .. I suppose encryption is meaningless too ..	19:08
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DocScrutinizer	alterego: nope, those I heard of get even sat numbers in GPS, like SV 28..SV34	19:09
DocScrutinizer	or somesuch	19:09
alterego	Then maybe we're not talking about the same thing :)	19:10
DocScrutinizer	:-P http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:ConstellationGPS.gif&filetimestamp=20080306155641	19:11
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Khertan	pls someone can try my repository ... for a reason that i didn't understand it s didn't work on my n900	19:19
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Khertan	W: GPG error: http://khertan.net fremantle-1.2 Release: The following signatures were invalid: NODATA 1 NODATA 2	19:19
lcuk	Khertan, if its not working for you and its your repo, how the hell can others check it!	19:19
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SpeedEvil	I have in the past used two-line element sets from http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/orbits/ and xephem to generate nice alt/az/range/rangerate tables for my location.	19:19
Khertan	lcuk, check if it s work on their device	19:20
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Khertan	mine is so customized that some w should not appear on a real maemo dist	19:20
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Khertan	ok someone confirm ... so ...	19:20
Khertan	ANNOUNCE : First release of KhtEditor is available for Maemo : http://khertan.net/khteditor in my repository : http://khertan.net/khertan_repository	19:20
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lcuk	Khertan, so even if this works, vectormine will be the original version on maemo extras devel etc?	19:24
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Khertan	lcuk, i didn't care about maemo extras	19:25
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lcuk	well since most users dont gainroot to update	19:26
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Khertan	when Community OBS will be ready for Freemantle maybe ... but currently i didn't have any solution	19:26
Khertan	as they lock HAM ... it s clearly not my fault ...	19:27
Khertan	To be honest we should start a quest to educate users to not use HAM.	19:28
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Khertan	but it s a major lose of time	19:28
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Corsac	I love ham	19:29
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Corsac	though I prefer bacon	19:29
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ieatlint	bacon is awesome	19:30
derf	I'm not sure if I trust the culinary opinion of someone who eats lint.	19:30
Corsac	lint?	19:31
kerio	pancetta > bacon	19:31
GAN900	Who eats lint?	19:31
Venemo	Khertan: HAM is open source	19:31
Venemo	http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon-application-manager	19:31
derf	GAN900: ieatlint, presumably.	19:31
Corsac	good point	19:32
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ieatlint	derf: don't hate	19:32
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kerio	Venemo: then why does it sucks?	19:33
Khertan	Venemo, but you can't replace it ... so useless	19:33
* ieatlint wonders if he can pay people to write code with bacon		19:33
kerio	i want to write bacon with code!	19:34
kerio	10 PRINT 'BACON'	19:34
Venemo	kerio: because the silly people make their own app manager instead of contributing to HAM	19:34
kerio	20 GOTO 10	19:34
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lcuk	kerio, Corsac http://liqbase.net/liq.20090115_233206.gary.scr.png	19:35
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kerio	why me?	19:35
kj4rgs770	Hey anybody can you help me? I want to put debian (easy debian/ deblet/ whatever) on my 770.	19:35
kerio	oh, it's not related to liq	19:35
kj4rgs770	is it possible?	19:35
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slonopotamus	wow, bacon	19:36
kj4rgs770	liq?	19:36
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Stskeeps	kj4rgs770: if it wasn't for the wifi breaking at later kernels, i would have suggested to port meego instead	19:36
kerio	kj4rgs770: not you	19:36
Stskeeps	kj4rgs770: but you're going to face quite an uphill battle :/	19:36
trip0	Stskeeps, is that why wifi is unstable on meego+n900?	19:37
kj4rgs770	Yeah i was wondedring if anybody had any pointers or instructions. i'm fairly new-ish to linux	19:37
trip0	i wonder how it would fair in the 35 kernel...	19:37
Stskeeps	trip0: wifi is actually stable on libiw and supplicant level, it's when connman gets involved..	19:38
luke-jr	honestly, I never understood 770	19:38
luke-jr	was it popular because of the cheaper price?	19:38
trip0	Stskeeps, oh... conn... man... :\|	19:38
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kj4rgs770	luke-jr: yeah and it is just fun to work with	19:39
Stskeeps	trip0: connman and libdui is some of my favourite names in open source	19:39
Stskeeps	:P	19:39
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slonopotamus	luke-jr: it was?	19:39
trip0	Stskeeps, oh, the name is great	19:39
luke-jr	kj4rgs770: compared to the C760, which was like 5 years earlier, it sucked	19:39
trip0	libdui died though	19:39
trip0	:P	19:39
luke-jr	or C3200 even	19:39
kj4rgs770	luke-jr: never heard of the c760	19:40
luke-jr	http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7162	19:41
luke-jr	C760 has the best handheld keyboard ever	19:42
kj4rgs770	Stskeeps: you were working on Deblet right? I have tried to use the deblet installer and it cant be installed because it cant find libssl 0.9.8 and debootstrap	19:43
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Stskeeps	kj4rgs770: yeah, .. it's rather out of date and sites are dead	19:43
slonopotamus	luke-jr: what about psion?	19:43
luke-jr	slonopotamus: nfc, never owned one	19:44
slonopotamus	luke-jr: err... that's too big to be called handheld	19:44
luke-jr	slonopotamus: nonsense	19:44
kj4rgs770	Stskeeps: So the installer wont work?	19:44
luke-jr	slonopotamus: it fit comfortably in my pocket with a wifi CompactFlash sticking out for years	19:44
Stskeeps	kj4rgs770: right	19:44
slonopotamus	luke-jr: big pocket, i guess :P	19:44
luke-jr	slonopotamus: it's no bigger than N810	19:45
luke-jr	actually, slightly taller, and not as wide	19:45
slonopotamus	o_O	19:45
luke-jr	about 2x as thick	19:45
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kj4rgs770	Stskeeps: Well thanks anyway. Maybe i should upgrade to an n800/810	19:45
luke-jr	kj4rgs770: N8x0 is dead	19:45
kj4rgs770	luke-jr:Dead? how?	19:46
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luke-jr	kj4rgs770: Nokia won't support it nor provide the community with the specs required to support it	19:46
luke-jr	kj4rgs770: me and a few others are trying to port Linux to it, but some parts are just too closed...	19:46
luke-jr	specifically the GPS and battery charger mainly	19:47
kj4rgs770	Port linux? like Easy Debian?	19:47
luke-jr	kj4rgs770: like Gentoo and MeeGo	19:47
luke-jr	but AFAIK the same kernel should work for Debian	19:47
alterego	fcamA?	19:48
kj4rgs770	luke-jr: Oh. Whats MeeGo ive seen it mentioned a few times	19:48
luke-jr	kj4rgs770: MeeGo is what Nokia is replacing Maemo with	19:48
alterego	http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/07/21/fcam-unleashed-for-the-nokia-n900/	19:48
luke-jr	kj4rgs770: also MeeGo is what IBM or Intel is replacing Moblin with	19:48
Corsac	lcuk: niom niom niom	19:48
alterego	I guess that was the big news ...	19:48
luke-jr	alterego: but Nokia won't support MeeGo officially for N8x0 or even N900	19:49
kj4rgs770	oh ok well thanks all i got to go	19:49
luke-jr	alterego: so MeeGo for N8x0 is community effort	19:49
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* slonopotamus thinks if nokia supported meego on n900, it would give them lots of karma		19:49
Stskeeps	they kinda do though	19:50
Stskeeps	i mean, not phone calls support but..	19:50
Stskeeps	as in, support lines	19:50
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slonopotamus	Stskeeps: "kinda"?	19:51
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luke-jr	Stskeeps: they kinda do by paying your bills :p	19:51
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: well, money is being thrown after it, a team of people, kernel guys, licensing..	19:51
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kerio	harmattan will probably run the meego ui	19:53
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trip0	harmattan will probably run a meego ui	19:53
kerio	trip0: nitpicker	19:54
trip0	;)	19:54
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alterego	Okay, l	20:02
alterego	, liking this fcam ...	20:02
PhonicUK	?	20:02
alterego	Written in Qt too .	20:02
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alterego	That's even cooler ..	20:03
PhonicUK	what is fcam?	20:03
alterego	Was just announced on Nokia conversations ..	20:03
luke-jr	alterego: what was your altitude?	20:03
alterego	luke-jr: I'm rought 0	20:03
alterego	~roughly 0 altitiude	20:03
luke-jr	wtf	20:04
luke-jr	impossible	20:04
luke-jr	0 is on water	20:04
alterego	Sea leve ..	20:04
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alterego	Yes, I know.	20:04
alterego	Cambridge, UK is roughly 0 altitude	20:04
alterego	We're on a bed of cley.	20:04
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* alterego starts hacking a camera plugin.		20:05
SpeedEvil	camera plugin?	20:05
E0x	yay a camera replace in the future	20:05
alterego	Thass what fcam is about ..	20:05
alterego	The image quality is good, and it has 4 photo burst mode ..	20:05
SpeedEvil	ah	20:06
SpeedEvil	that	20:06
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SpeedEvil	Open?	20:06
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luke-jr	alterego: so not even as high as 70m?	20:07
alterego	luke-jr: due to error, probably :P	20:07
luke-jr	alterego: what does N900 report? -.-	20:08
alterego	I'll do an average.	20:08
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luke-jr	SpeedEvil: how about yours?	20:10
SpeedEvil	what?	20:10
luke-jr	altitude	20:10
SpeedEvil	The dispersion is quite high	20:10
SpeedEvil	see the GPX	20:10
luke-jr	...	20:10
SpeedEvil	www.mauve.plus.com/gpx	20:10
SpeedEvil	is the position log - this goes with /log	20:11
SpeedEvil	105m I think	20:11
luke-jr	ok	20:11
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Dassu	Has somebody else noticed that the mediaplayer buffers several times eventhough the data rate is ~steady and the video lenght is known?	20:14
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Dassu	It seems like mediaplayer has constant buffer size and that isn't smart :(	20:15
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luke-jr	SpeedEvil: your log lacks accuracy info :P	20:19
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SpeedEvil	what do you want?	20:20
trip0	SpeedEvil wrote gpxlogger?	20:21
SpeedEvil	no	20:22
SpeedEvil	I did not	20:22
trip0	oh	20:22
SpeedEvil	I have suggested that the author add a computed EPE - but he has not	20:22
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SpeedEvil	splot "out.q" using 1:2:3:4 palette	20:22
SpeedEvil	using gnuplot - with http://www.mauve.plus.com/out.q	20:22
SpeedEvil	this gives a nice 3d plot of x/y/z meters - with the colour representing the number of points within that quantisation block	20:23
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SpeedEvil	.5m voxels	20:24
SpeedEvil	That is 2.5 days logging	20:24
SpeedEvil	I have more - but the battery in the device has died, and I will have to plug it in	20:24
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luke-jr	fcam just crashes on start here	20:34
alterego	luke-jr: you need to restart the device	20:34
luke-jr	meh	20:34
luke-jr	maybe later	20:34
alterego	For some reason the drivers don't work until you restart the N900	20:34
luke-jr	alterego: so what's N900 say your altitude is?	20:34
alterego	I couldn't get a lock. I'm about to go outside so I'll let you know in a couple of minutes :P	20:35
trip0	the n900 doesn't like your attitude luke-jr	20:35
luke-jr	meh	20:35
trip0	:P	20:36
SpeedEvil	107.3 is the (averaged) altitude	20:36
alterego	heh	20:36
SpeedEvil	forme	20:36
luke-jr	I suspect 30..33 should have altitude, but I can't figure out how it's encoded	20:36
SpeedEvil	There are various geoids.	20:36
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SpeedEvil	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WGS84	20:37
SpeedEvil	for example	20:37
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SpeedEvil	Also consider it might be feet or meters	20:37
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alterego	luke-jr: about 23 meters is my altitude	20:42
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DrGrov	Anyone seen D-Iivil here today or yesterday?	20:50
alterego	wow, the HDR mode is really good in fc ...	20:50
alterego	fcam ...	20:50
alterego	DrGrov: nope	20:50
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TomaszD	anyone has fcamera working with titan's kernel?	20:55
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alterego	TomaszD: does it not?	20:57
TomaszD	it makes the default cam app fail and the fcamera is just grey where the picture should be	20:57
kerio	reboot	20:57
TomaszD	I did..	20:58
TomaszD	let's give it one more chance..	20:58
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alterego	heh	20:59
alterego	He must have done something different with omapfb, as that's how the viewfinder is displayed.	21:00
alterego	I start fcam, then open lens. default camui doesn't do anything that way.	21:00
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Venemo	hey alterego	21:01
Venemo	can I pm you?	21:01
alterego	Aloha	21:01
alterego	Sure, go ahead	21:01
alterego	You know I don't mind :)	21:01
alterego	Also, fcamera has the "gesture" operated vbox thing I want ... :D	21:02
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TomaszD	nope, it still fails	21:04
TomaszD	:(	21:04
alterego	gutted .. :/	21:04
alterego	TomaszD: run it as root from a command prompt and tell me if it fails with OMAPFB stuff :)	21:04
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TomaszD	alterego, it can't find /dev/video0	21:06
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alterego	Heh	21:06
alterego	Interesting.	21:06
ppman	I messed up my phone's gps receiver somehow - is there anyway to use the n810 as a bluetooth external gps?	21:06
alterego	TomaszD: quick fix .. Try: mknod /dev/video0 c 82 2	21:07
alterego	Hrm, though that stuff should be created by udev ..	21:09
alterego	Maybe there's something else wrong.	21:09
jacekowski	udev probably failed	21:09
jacekowski	as ussual	21:09
TomaszD	alterego, now I get permission denied	21:09
alterego	TomaszD: are you doing it as root?	21:09
TomaszD	I mean, it fails when I run fcamera as root, but says perm denied when as user	21:09
TomaszD	when I run as root the error message doesn't change	21:10
alterego	TomaszD: oh sorry: chown root.video /dev/video0	21:10
alterego	TomaszD: the device probably doesn't actually exist in the kernel then :/	21:10
TomaszD	yep, no change	21:11
TomaszD	titan screwed up ;)	21:11
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TomaszD	oh well, let's remove the kernel...	21:11
alterego	Might be the module isn't installed	21:11
alterego	:)	21:11
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TomaszD	restoring nokia kernel..	21:12
alterego	TomaszD: could you do an lsmod and pastie.org it for me :)	21:12
TomaszD	too late :)	21:12
alterego	I'd rather see wassup :)	21:12
alterego	Grr :P	21:12
TomaszD	I'll do it next time	21:13
TomaszD	you can install the kernel-power package too you now ;)	21:13
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pronto	http://mg.pov.lt/blog/n900-connection-sharing is anyone able to get optoin 5 working ?	21:14
alterego	TomaszD: no, then things will not work for me :P	21:15
MiXu-_	pronto: Joikuspot is so cheap that I couldn't bother with cli.	21:15
TomaszD	http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/fcam/fcam.mov	21:15
TomaszD	how did they implement the gyro for the n900...	21:15
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TomaszD	alright, we're back in business	21:16
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Tscheesy	hi - where is Fennec storing Downloads? can't find it	21:17
jacekowski	use opera	21:17
Tscheesy	^^	21:17
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Tscheesy	Firefox can sync to my Computer - Killer Feature ;)	21:18
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E0x	pronto: i was trying do something similar but using usb networking and don't work	21:19
TomaszD	man, fcam is great	21:19
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E0x	pronto: with the n900 connected to the internet ( gpsr0 up ) i can't ping from the pc to the n900	21:19
alterego	TomaszD: it's cool isn't it :)	21:20
pronto	heh	21:20
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E0x	pronto: in the end i use the n900 as modem , if you have network-manager is pretty easy	21:20
alterego	I'm working on my own cam app now ... :D	21:20
pronto	well i lost my usb cable for the n900, so yeah	21:20
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alterego	pronto: pretty easy to tether via bluetooth, though not as quick.	21:20
E0x	pronto: you can try the mobilespot setup	21:20
pronto	netbook dosent have blutooth	21:20
alterego	A netbook without bluetooth ... omfg	21:20
alterego	Who would buy suych a useless pos :P	21:21
pronto	infact the only thing i own that has bluethooth is my n900 :\	21:21
E0x	pronto: http://www.nokian900applications.com/mobile-hotspot-for-nokia-n900/	21:21
TomaszD	alterego, why am I getting 10.6mb "dng" files which are 640x480?	21:21
pronto	dosent that need a custom kernel?	21:21
E0x	yes	21:21
pronto	yeah id ont want to do that	21:22
E0x	need kernel-power	21:22
TomaszD	kernel-power ain't dangerous, it even add an icon in the main menu to replace it with the stock Nokia kernel should you want to	21:22
TomaszD	*adds	21:22
E0x	pronto: well what happen with the option 5 ? what problems you get ?	21:22
E0x	the same that i ?	21:22
TomaszD	alterego, ?	21:23
slonopotamus	pronto: usb cable for n900 costs $3	21:23
pronto	my netbook sees it, but wont connect	21:23
E0x	pronto: hmm	21:23
pronto	i also dont want to use usb, because the n900's usb port is damn weak	21:23
pronto	dont trust it at all	21:23
E0x	pronto: maybe is your wifi driver	21:23
E0x	some wifi driver reject ad-hoc	21:23
slonopotamus	pronto: it's covered by warranty (mine was fixed)	21:23
pronto	i'm using wext	21:24
pronto	slonopotamus: i alraedy had one n900 replaced because of the usb port :\	21:24
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slonopotamus	pronto: hehe	21:24
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alterego	TomaszD: dunno, hang on~.	21:26
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E0x	pronto: try get connected to the ad-hoc connection with iwconfig	21:27
E0x	( command line )	21:27
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TomaszD	alterego, these are raw images, have no proper viewer in linux ;)	21:27
E0x	pronto: http://unixlab.blogspot.com/2010/01/setting-up-ad-hoc-wireless-network.html	21:28
E0x	pronto: do the same in you laptop that machine B need do	21:28
E0x	but change of course the value	21:28
iPeter-	why i get only black screen when i connect my n900 to tv? i hear sounds from tv but no video..	21:29
pronto	alright	21:29
alterego	pronto: I plug/unplug my usb about 30 times a day and have no issues ...	21:29
alterego	Had my N900 since mid febuary.	21:29
SpeedEvil	iPeter-: Do you have AL/NTSC cselected right?	21:29
pronto	on my first n900 the usb port fell out :\	21:29
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iPeter-	SpeedEvil: yes, pal	21:30
TomaszD	check the cable connection iPeter-	21:30
TomaszD	you might have hooked it up incorrectly	21:30
TomaszD	so you have one channel of audio mixed with the video	21:30
iPeter-	cable is connected right, in tv blue screen changes to black but no vid..	21:31
iPeter-	im 100% sure it was right..	21:31
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TomaszD	I'd still insist on checking for mixups	21:32
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TomaszD	otherwise I'm out of ideas	21:32
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iPeter-	it worked before i reflashed	21:32
TomaszD	did you flash the emmc too?	21:32
iPeter-	yellow to yellow, white to white and red to red, i get audio from both speakers correctly, mut no vid.	21:33
iPeter-	TomaszD: nope	21:33
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TomaszD	I'd suggest running the back up application, then copying over the back from the phone to your pc, along with your files, then reflashing fiasco without reboot (no -R flag), then emmc (with reboot flag)	21:34
iPeter-	oh and ofc i installed nitdroid to my sd card..	21:34
TomaszD	*backup	21:34
iPeter-	sigh, id like to hear other options before that operation..	21:35
TomaszD	well, I'm not sure how nitdroid affects maemo, does it replace the kernel?	21:35
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TomaszD	(I've no idea who would want android without google propriatary apps like market and gmail, it's totally useless without them, but anyway)	21:36
iPeter-	hmm, not sure. www.nitdroid.com could you check..?	21:36
iPeter-	TomaszD: that appstore on it works perfectly..	21:36
TomaszD	so it's an illegal port	21:36
iPeter-	:O	21:37
TomaszD	they have no right to redistribute the proprietary applications	21:37
TomaszD	is it really the android market?	21:37
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DocScrutinizer	iPeter-: yellow and white may both be ambiguous	21:38
iPeter-	well i self havnt tested it put on changelog they said on works list: android market works perfectly..	21:38
TomaszD	anyway, the faq http://www.nitdroid.com/index.php?title=Nokia_N900_NITDroid_frequently_asked_questions says you don't need to replace the stock kernel anymore, maybe you had an old version installed first?	21:38
TomaszD	well if they aren't distributing the app itself then they are in the clear	21:39
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iPeter-	DocScrutinizer: yellow was in yellow and white in white :P i checked many times..	21:39
DocScrutinizer	so what?	21:39
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TomaszD	if he's getting stereo audio then there's nothing ambiguous	21:40
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DocScrutinizer	still yellow on TV might mean left_audio, CVBS in, CVBS out, or even component	21:40
iPeter-	ambiguous, new word. what it does mean? lol	21:40
iPeter-	i think i didnt replace original kernel	21:40
DocScrutinizer	~dict ambiguous	21:41
infobot	Dictionary 'ambiguous' (1 of 5): open to two or more interpretations; or of uncertain nature or significance; or (often) intended to mislead; "an equivocal statement"; "the polling had a complex and equivocal (or ambiguous) message for potential female candidates"; "the officer's equivocal behavior increased the victim's uneasiness"; "popularity is an equivocal crown"; "an equivocal response to an embarrassing question" .	21:41
TomaszD	iPeter-, before you reflash again, check with a different tv, if it fails the same, you know it's the phone's fault	21:41
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TomaszD	or the cable	21:41
* DocScrutinizer wonders if his advice is appreciated		21:42
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iPeter-	DocScrutinizer: but as i said before, it worked before reflash as it was. oh and on yellow place it got a "video" logo, on other two it got a note	21:43
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E0x	pronto: work ?	21:44
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iPeter-	umm im kinda sure its phones fault coz when i plug yellow one in tv, screens color changes from blue to black..	21:44
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iPeter-	DocScrutinizer: i have to check that word in dictionary :P	21:45
pronto	E0x: nope, having issues with setting it to ad-hoc	21:45
TomaszD	alterego, the raw viewer on the n900 can't handle the files	21:45
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pronto	E0x: just relized i forgot to put wlan0 down xD	21:46
E0x	:D	21:46
DocScrutinizer	iPeter-: mhm, so that's quite funny as it means HSync and VSync seem to be correct	21:48
pronto	its unable to ping the phone x.x	21:48
DocScrutinizer	iPeter-: maybe open up camera lens slider to get sort of a 'webcam' on TV	21:49
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E0x	pronto: up it back with you finish the config	21:49
E0x	pronto: and you can ping from the phone to netbook ?	21:50
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jacekowski	windows netbook?	21:50
DocScrutinizer	iPeter-: also in settings->TV-out switch from PAT to NTSC, store, check, and switch back	21:50
jacekowski	i think windows is blocking icmp by default	21:50
jacekowski	PAL*	21:51
DocScrutinizer	PAL*	21:51
jacekowski	but that wouldn't be a problem	21:51
jacekowski	PAL and NTSC are just colour systems	21:51
DocScrutinizer	nope, but it might reset some things	21:51
pronto	unable to ping	21:51
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DocScrutinizer	also I heard of video codecs crashing, which will render HW in a limbo state and you need to hard switchdown and power up to reset. Happens on playback of nasty coded video media, so try with desktop, after fresh boot from abttery out	21:53
iPeter-	DocScrutinizer: I tried on it, and when hitting save, i get white lines for 1 sec to tv.. but i might have a solution.	21:53
iPeter-	DocScrutinizer: I have to try that battery out too, i left that cable at work place so.. err, cant test it out now.	21:55
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DocScrutinizer	which cable?	21:55
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DocScrutinizer	ohh your white lines were a story from the past, I gather	21:56
iPeter-	Yeah, switching from PAL to NTSC and from NTSC -> PAL	21:56
DocScrutinizer	I see	21:57
DocScrutinizer	AIUI TV and LCD are using different framebufers, and there has to be some hardware that does constant copying from primary to TV buffer	21:58
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DocScrutinizer	if that HW isn't correctly set up, you'll probably see the effect you described. Correct Sync, occasional atrifacts on PAL/NTSC switching, but no content	21:59
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DocScrutinizer	artifacts*	21:59
iPeter-	hmph..	22:00
iPeter-	That just wonders me it worked earlier perfectly.	22:00
iPeter-	on that tv with same cable and same device.	22:00
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DocScrutinizer	well, obviously something either in cable, or TV or device has changed somehow	22:02
DocScrutinizer	or in your way to operate it	22:02
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iPeter-	i think its device.. but i may have to select origianl kernel on boot, so that may be reason for black screen.	22:08
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DocScrutinizer	lol, yeah	22:10
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DocScrutinizer	N900 video isn't exactly a VESA card	22:11
iPeter-	Ok. But ill come to here cry if it doesnt work even on original kernel (im not sure was it original kernel when i tried out or not..)	22:12
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alterego	IS this issue with the power kernel and TV output?	22:13
DocScrutinizer	I bet	22:13
alterego	It's probably related to the camera device not working either.	22:13
luke-jr	wait, fcam-drivers is kernel modules? :/	22:14
alterego	luke-jr: low latency, they're FOSS ...	22:14
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: wouldn't feel surprised	22:14
luke-jr	pronto: N900 by default blocks pings	22:14
luke-jr	alterego: well, that explains why it doesn't work for me... :P	22:14
luke-jr	alterego: I don't use stock kernel	22:14
alterego	luke-jr: ah, that probably explains also why it wouldn't work for power kernel :)	22:14
alterego	Yeah :)	22:14
alterego	Well, compile them yourself then :P	22:15
luke-jr	mine is 2.6.28-omap1-gcc44 :p	22:15
alterego	:)	22:15
alterego	How's that working out for you? :P	22:15
luke-jr	great	22:15
alterego	Except you can't use fcam :P	22:15
* DocScrutinizer shakes head and sighs		22:15
pronto	well even after setting wlan with iwconfig, after a few seconds it goes back to my normal access point :\ (on my laptop)	22:15
luke-jr	alterego: right	22:15
luke-jr	maybe I'll mess with it later...	22:15
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: ?	22:15
iPeter-	alterego: Its nitdroids kernel..	22:15
iPeter-	Im not sure what kernel it actually is.. err. Not so hax0r with these stuff :D	22:16
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: I don't have whatever weird GCC fork Maemo uses	22:16
luke-jr	and I needed kernel modules built	22:16
luke-jr	:p	22:16
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luke-jr	so besides the 2-line fix for GCC 4.4, it's the same kernel just built with a diff compiler	22:16
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DocScrutinizer	ooh, that's nasty then	22:17
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alterego	"A man walks into #maemo, he says, my franken-kamera isn't working" I say "That's what you get when you use silly custom kernels".	22:17
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: why?	22:17
luke-jr	alterego: if you don't want custom kernels, use WinMo	22:18
alterego	luke-jr: oh, I do, but I wouldn't break ABI like you :P	22:18
DocScrutinizer	but you'd probably need same kernel version string, or modprobe --force-vermagic --force-modversion	22:18
luke-jr	alterego: you mean like GCC	22:18
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: GCC 4.4 isn't ABI compatible with <4.4	22:19
TomaszD	alterego, I'm using ImageConverte Plus 8.0 with wine1.2, works fine when converting dng files	22:19
alterego	Sure, but you're the one that uses a non maemo compiler :P	22:19
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: why? because it's supposed to be abi compatible	22:19
luke-jr	alterego: Maemo is the one using a non-standard compiler	22:19
TomaszD	alterego, but I'm getting a blue tint on all pictures, any hints?	22:19
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DocScrutinizer	see? that's nasty	22:19
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: no, it isn't. it's well documented ABI breakage	22:19
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DocScrutinizer	there's no non-nasty abi breakage	22:19
alterego	luke-jr: get out of the bath? :P	22:19
kerio	i'm getting really crappy pictures from the front-facing camera	22:19
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: ABI breaks for GCC 4.5 too, if you want hardfloat	22:19
alterego	TomaszD: get out of the bath? :P	22:20
DocScrutinizer	fsck	22:20
luke-jr	which I plan to do when GCC 4.5 works reliably	22:20
alterego	sorry luke-jr not meant for you :P	22:20
kerio	Mirror doesn't seem to play with the colors to have a somewhat good picture	22:20
TomaszD	alterego, I don't want to!	22:20
* DocScrutinizer feels depressed and heads out for a nice beer in the garden		22:20
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TomaszD	alterego, seriously, what do you do with your resulting dng files?	22:20
kerio	~docsnack	22:21
TomaszD	you sounded like you did try fcamera	22:21
DocScrutinizer	hmm yummy, kerio :)	22:21
alterego	TomaszD: I've just been looking at them in The GIMP	22:21
alterego	TomaszD: I've just been playing with the app really, not too bothered with the actual images at the moment :P	22:21
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kerio	how do i control the media player from the shell?	22:21
TomaszD	use dbus commands I guess	22:22
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alterego	kerio: dbus	22:22
alterego	kerio: the dbus API for MAFW is somewhere in the wiki	22:22
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS	22:22
kerio	request - a ncurses gui for the media player	22:22
DocScrutinizer	~jebbaDbus is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS	22:23
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer	22:23
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alterego	kerio: neat :)	22:23
kerio	so... i'm getting 2457B/s	22:23
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TomaszD	alterego, gimp doesn't read dng files	22:24
TomaszD	or do you have a plugin?	22:24
alterego	TomaszD: does, just doesn't seem to get the full res ...	22:24
kerio	gotta love crappy mobile connections	22:24
TomaszD	heh, it's just reading the preview jpg or whatever is in there	22:24
alterego	Or is 10.5M normal for 640x480? :)	22:24
alterego	tiff	22:24
kerio	thanks DocScrutinizer	22:25
kerio	~docsnack	22:25
kerio	:P	22:25
DocScrutinizer	hmm yummy, kerio :)	22:25
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kerio	~docsnack add I will be your sex slave forever $USER	22:26
DocScrutinizer	I don't know what you are taling about	22:26
kerio	wait, maybe it's a separate command altogheter	22:26
kerio	yup	22:27
kerio	~docsnack-add yay thanks <nick>	22:27
DocScrutinizer	I don't know what you are taling about	22:28
kerio	you know, repeating messages is only ok when the first had no errors	22:28
kerio	:)	22:28
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lpjhjdh	so is anyone familiar with sb2? I'm having some issues getting sbrsh setup, it isn't able to connect to the server	22:29
iPeter-	is it easy to create apps for maemo?	22:33
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ieatlint	yes	22:33
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iPeter-	To learn where i should start?	22:33
ieatlint	are you looking to use gtk or qt?	22:34
iPeter-	Hmm, dunno but i think QT, i dont know much (or anything) on creating apps..	22:34
DocScrutinizer	use qt then	22:36
luke-jr	iPeter-: grab Qt Creator	22:36
ieatlint	then you want to seek out the nokia qt sdk	22:36
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ieatlint	which will include everything you need to make apps for the phone	22:36
iPeter-	As im newbie could i get direct link to get correct one..?	22:36
ieatlint	(in c++/qt)	22:36
ieatlint	http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html	22:37
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation	22:37
DocScrutinizer	http://qt.nokia.com/	22:37
ieatlint	note that if you don't know c++ (or, perhaps c at a minimum), you'll want to do that first :P	22:37
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iPeter-	:E	22:38
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DocScrutinizer	or use pyqt	22:38
iPeter-	Why i didnt learn that language year back -.-	22:38
ieatlint	ah, right, pyqt	22:38
iPeter-	Sounds easy and crap but linxx again? :D	22:38
ieatlint	google for "pyqt maemo"	22:39
DocScrutinizer	or grab arbitrary package sourcode in python, from garage.maemo.org	22:39
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, STILL	22:39
DocScrutinizer	can't take it any longer, sorry	22:40
DocScrutinizer	lame of laughing	22:40
luke-jr	ieatlint: C/C++ are not prerequisites to Qt	22:40
luke-jr	Qt applications are compatible with inline C/C++ code, but for the most part only the syntax is shared	22:40
luke-jr	and syntax is easy enough	22:40
DocScrutinizer	dunno, maybe it's normal those 4chan threads go on for weeks and months?	22:41
* ieatlint senses a pedantic "well, technically..." discussion approaching		22:41
luke-jr	basically, it's bad code if you use C/C++ within a Qt application	22:41
iPeter-	is Nokia QT SDK like umm..	22:42
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: basically it's considered rude to tell a nob about the diferences between Qt and C++	22:42
iPeter-	virtual basic?	22:42
iPeter-	i mean VB program, easy 2 use	22:42
luke-jr	iPeter-: VB is a bad joke, forget everything you learned with it	22:43
ieatlint	luke-jr: can you help me compile php-qt for the n900 so i can write all my apps with it?	22:43
ieatlint	:P	22:43
luke-jr	ieatlint: you don't want that	22:43
luke-jr	PHP is leaky	22:43
iPeter-	i didnt learn it. its crap. Id like to know qt and doing stuff to maemo etc, but dont know where to start..	22:43
luke-jr	iPeter-: grab Qt Creator or the SDK	22:44
TomaszD	alterego, sigh in FCamera, swipe up to see the image viewer, you can "share" and then it's JPG ...	22:44
luke-jr	read the Qt docs	22:44
ieatlint	how about perlqt? i hear perl is really versatile	22:44
iPeter-	qt createor?	22:44
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luke-jr	ieatlint: that'd be fine if perlqt actually existed	22:44
ieatlint	http://perlqt.sourceforge.net/	22:44
ieatlint	haha, dated 2003	22:44
luke-jr	I mean a real perlqt	22:45
TomaszD	alterego, you can also swipe down for options	22:45
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* lcuk superglues w00t_ back together		22:45
w00t_	:D	22:45
iPeter-	ffuu-, i readlly dont know what should i download now to start with QT	22:46
luke-jr	iPeter-: we told you like 3 times	22:46
iPeter-	Yeah, but direct links would help me to get on feet.	22:46
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: you grumpy pale ole hax0r, stop talking beginners into C++ with tonal meta-extensions, and get some real sex!	22:47
luke-jr	you mean would help you be lazy	22:47
iPeter-	im now installing Nokia Qt SDK, should i start with it or is there easier method?	22:47
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: that isn't funny	22:47
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DocScrutinizer	actually it isn't	22:48
iPeter-	luke-jr: No. i just want to get the correct one..	22:48
ieatlint	qt can get you laid	22:48
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DocScrutinizer	I just thaought it sounds a little more nice this way, rather than STFU	22:48
iPeter-	:<	22:49
DocScrutinizer	iPeter-: depends on your experience with programming	22:49
iPeter-	DocScrutinizer: None experience.	22:50
iPeter-	Or if you count PHP and HTML, a bit SQL	22:50
DocScrutinizer	then probably Qt docs and environment are a bad way to start	22:50
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iPeter-	What would be better way then?	22:50
ieatlint	i'd recommend python	22:50
ieatlint	and a book	22:50
ieatlint	start with some basic stuff with python itself, and then look at qt	22:51
DocScrutinizer	hmm, with PHP and SQL you should know the basics at least. I'd suggest you have a look into C++ and see if you like it, otherwise go for Python and on N900 pyQt	22:51
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iPeter-	hmm okay	22:52
DocScrutinizer	python is relatively lightweight for a learning curve	22:53
DocScrutinizer	iPeter-: an easy start: http://zetcode.com/tutorials/pyqt4	22:54
iPeter-	Im not sure yet how this works, but if im learning C++ (im going to need that language in school etc later) can i direclty do it to n900, make noobapps or is it too hard for noob? like an application "Hello world"	22:54
DocScrutinizer	hello world app in Qt (which is based on C++ originally) can be found in Qt tutorials	22:55
iPeter-	Okay	22:56
iPeter-	DocScrutinizer: It would be nice if i would get link to Qt tut, then im going to be quiet for a while, prolly..	22:56
DocScrutinizer	Qt is a set of toolbits originally designed for use on C++ engine. But other engines like python adopted it	22:57
luke-jr	got speed from GPS packet	22:57
luke-jr	it's in centimeters per second :P	22:57
DocScrutinizer	http://qt.nokia.com/	22:57
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DocScrutinizer	http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6/tutorials.html	22:59
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ieatlint	well, that explains why it got quiet	23:00
kerio	huh? i thought qt was a c/c++ lib	23:01
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: err, nobody except maybe luke-jr is stating anything different	23:02
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kerio	yeah, i was reading the scrollback	23:02
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nextime	kerio : many c/c++ libs have other language bindings	23:02
kerio	yeah	23:02
kerio	but they're not a language	23:03
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nextime	of course not	23:03
ieatlint	qt is c++, the point i think he was trying to make is that you generally should only be using qt libs in a qt app	23:03
luke-jr	kerio: Qt is implemented in C++, just like C++ is implemented in C	23:03
ieatlint	ie, not other libs	23:03
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kerio	by definition anything for C also works with python, with a simple wrapper	23:03
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* DocScrutinizer throws a bag of Jolly Time popcorn into the microwave		23:05
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ieatlint	ooh, popcorn	23:05
iPeter-	DocScrutinizer: What app i have to use where to write code (looking this pyqt tutorial	23:05
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DocScrutinizer	iPeter-: that's one of the nice things about python. It's a scripting language, means it's interpreted and the source is the executable	23:06
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DocScrutinizer	just like a shellscript	23:07
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iPeter-	DocScrutinizer: So in windows i create new document testing.py and then run it it should work?	23:08
DocScrutinizer	iPeter-: yep, basically. Though on windoze I dunno	23:08
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luke-jr	iPeter-: who uses Windows?	23:09
iPeter-	luke-jr: gamers :<	23:09
DocScrutinizer	iPeter-: on N900 open a xterm, type `python <enter>`	23:09
luke-jr	naah	23:09
luke-jr	maybe gamers who play crap games	23:09
MohammadAG51	consoles ftw	23:09
luke-jr	why isn't wiki.maemo.org working?	23:09
luke-jr	MohammadAG51: Linux FTW	23:09
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* Mousey games on linux		23:10
MohammadAG51	linux can't run games properly	23:10
Mousey	runs Team Fortress 2 just fine	23:10
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luke-jr	bs MohammadAG51	23:10
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MohammadAG51	would rather use a console	23:10
Mousey	ew	23:10
MohammadAG51	even for FPSs	23:10
* Mousey is done here		23:10
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iPeter-	DocScrutinizer: Any way to do this on windoze?	23:11
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MohammadAG51	lol Mousey	23:12
DocScrutinizer	iPeter-: sorry, I can't help with windoze. Haven't touched it since 10 years	23:12
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luke-jr	same here	23:12
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MohammadAG51	got rid of my windows partition and got a used laptop for the family	23:13
DocScrutinizer	iPeter-: there's a thing called PuTTY on windows, you can use to ssh into your N900	23:13
iPeter-	Okay. I would use linux if it would run games better..	23:13
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iPeter-	DocScrutinizer: Yeah.	23:13
DocScrutinizer	for writing python this should be just fine	23:13
MohammadAG51	get a console and game properly	23:13
iPeter-	Using putty tray atm.	23:13
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Mousey	Steam is coming out for Linux in the fall	23:14
Mousey	theres your "games better"	23:14
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ieatlint	arguing with open source advocates it like arguing with christians	23:15
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Mousey	not true	23:15
Mousey	i can prove there's open source software	23:15
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ieatlint	:P	23:16
ieatlint	true	23:16
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dmj726_devel	open source or free software?	23:16
iPeter-	they have been "doing" steam for years to linux..	23:17
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iPeter-	ffuu- Did i install now correct python thing..	23:17
iPeter-	Traceback (most recent call last):	23:17
iPeter-	File "C:\Users\Peter\Desktop\simple.py", line 6, in <module>	23:17
iPeter-	from PyQt4 import QtGui	23:17
iPeter-	ImportError: No module named PyQt4	23:17
DocScrutinizer	install pyqt4 :-P	23:18
MohammadAG	pyQt bindings?	23:18
luke-jr	Mousey: and I can prove there's God. what's your point?	23:18
Mousey	check out the last sentence: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7715209/Steam-for-Mac-goes-live.html	23:19
Mousey	luke-jr: hahaha	23:19
TomaszD	no, no, no, no. Don't start luke-jr :)	23:19
Mousey	you prove there's a god, i'll start going to church	23:19
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dmj726_devel	where is the "Steam for Linux" news?	23:20
Mousey	dmj726_devel: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7715209/Steam-for-Mac-goes-live.html, last sentence	23:20
luke-jr	Mousey: unlikely, you'll probably just deny it and look the other way	23:20
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luke-jr	but the logic still stands strong, despite any denial	23:20
Mousey	i don't need logic to prove there's a linux	23:20
Mousey	i just need a working computer	23:21
luke-jr	observation is not proof	23:21
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Mousey	uh	23:21
TomaszD	oh boy	23:21
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Mousey	i don't need weasel words to prove there's a linux. i can use empirical evidence	23:21
TomaszD	don't take the bait	23:22
TomaszD	it's pointless	23:22
DocScrutinizer	STFU :-(	23:22
luke-jr	lol	23:22
Mousey	i can use any number and manner of evidences to prove there's a linux. trying to prove there's a god is pointless.	23:22
Mousey	k, i'm done	23:22
* MohammadAG +1s DocScrutinizer		23:22
luke-jr	I basically have everything but altitude now	23:22
ieatlint	you people are too easy to rile up	23:22
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TomaszD	ieatlint, we just try to kill any craziness before it even starts	23:23
kerio	FPSes on consoles...	23:23
kerio	EW	23:23
kerio	just EW	23:23
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Mousey	kerio: here we go again	23:23
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jacekowski	i'mi'm seriously impressed	23:23
ieatlint	TomaszD: you were saying?	23:23
jacekowski	i@m*	23:23
jacekowski	i'm*	23:23
jacekowski	they are building bridge over the road next to me	23:24
TomaszD	ieatlint, that we get easily riled up, I'm just saying we kill the discussion before it escalates :)	23:24
Mousey	to nowhere?	23:24
jacekowski	and doing it overnight	23:24
MohammadAG	jacekowski, call the police?	23:24
kerio	Mousey: yes, we go again, FPSes with a joystick are the spawn of satan	23:24
jacekowski	and it took them 2 nights to do all formwork	23:24
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dmj726_devel	actually a console could do fps gaming well if it supported keyboards and mice and multiple monitors	23:24
jacekowski	and it's 2x2 lanes wide road	23:24
luke-jr	lol	23:24
kerio	wiimote+nunchuck is somewhat acceptable	23:24
ieatlint	jacekowski: you clearly aren't in the US then :P	23:24
* Mousey tries to imagine consoles supporting 2x2 lane wide roads		23:24
MohammadAG	dmj726_devel, unreal tournament supports it :P	23:24
kerio	but it still can't beat mouse+keyboard	23:24
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jacekowski	ieatlint: why?	23:25
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kerio	2x2 lanes roads?	23:25
* DocScrutinizer waves		23:25
ieatlint	because i've only seen a construction project go that fast once	23:25
MohammadAG	kinky	23:25
kerio	it's two roads, one over another	23:25
ieatlint	and it was because they threw over $100m at it	23:25
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jacekowski	kerio: 2 lanes in each direction	23:26
kerio	oh	23:26
jacekowski	kerio: and they are building 2 lanes wide bridge over it	23:26
kerio	less awesome	23:26
kerio	:)	23:26
jacekowski	and slip roads and all that stuff	23:26
jacekowski	because current one that's about one mile to the east	23:26
jacekowski	isn't enough	23:26
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luke-jr	someone good with units help me out here :/	23:27
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luke-jr	649 ??? = 353.5 metres	23:27
jacekowski	and well, that's only £10million project	23:27
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luke-jr	143 ??? = ~23 metres	23:27
luke-jr	308 ??? = 107.5 metres	23:28
luke-jr	??? are all the same unit	23:28
DocScrutinizer	sure	23:28
luke-jr	this is the LAST piece to the GPS puzzle, I think	23:28
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ieatlint	uh, that can't be the same unit of measurement	23:29
jacekowski	well, it could	23:29
kerio	it can	23:29
ieatlint	143 / 23 == 6.2 while 6.2 * 107.5 == 666.5	23:29
jacekowski	if it would be like angular unit	23:29
jacekowski	that's dependant longitude and latitude	23:30
TomaszD	I'd use http://www.wolframalpha.com luke-jr	23:30
jacekowski	and height	23:30
jacekowski	that's possible with gps	23:30
kerio	ieatlint: lrn2math	23:30
jacekowski	but very unlikely	23:30
luke-jr	TomaszD: ?	23:30
TomaszD	for units	23:30
ieatlint	kerio: math is overrated	23:30
jacekowski	but	23:30
jacekowski	it could be floating point stuff	23:30
jacekowski	luke-jr: so we know all now?	23:31
luke-jr	ieatlint: there could be a static offset too	23:31
luke-jr	jacekowski: except altitude :P	23:31
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luke-jr	jacekowski: and I haven't decoded other length packets yet	23:31
kerio	hmm, can't be a unit	23:31
luke-jr	ieatlint: think celcius vs fahrenheit	23:31
luke-jr	0 C is 32 F	23:32
kerio	unless that ~23 is really, really ~	23:32
luke-jr	it is really ~	23:32
luke-jr	~23 is a human's word	23:32
infobot	...but 23 is already something else...	23:32
luke-jr	use 649=353.5 and 308=107.5 :)	23:32
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kerio	~42	23:32
infobot	[42] the answer to life the universe and everything, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_answer_to_life,_the_universe,_and_everything	23:32
kerio	~botsnack	23:32
infobot	kerio: aw, gee	23:32
derf	luke-jr: The least squares minimizer is m = 0.663413*???-81.9182, but it's not a very good approximation.	23:32
luke-jr	derf: wtf does that mean?	23:33
kerio	assume y=ax+b, find a and b with three pairs of x and y	23:33
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luke-jr	kerio: yeah, so...	23:34
kerio	so it doesn't work	23:34
derf	That gives you offsets of -4.86m, 10.05m, and 14.91m.	23:34
derf	Err, -10.05m, I meant.	23:34
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derf	GPS should be a little more accurate than that.	23:35
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kerio	why don't we just ask nokia?	23:35
kerio	._.	23:35
lcuk	sme people say i use gps for mm accurate positioning	23:35
TomaszD	hey Nokia, we're reverse engineering your binary GPS blob, help us out	23:36
TomaszD	yeah, that will go well	23:36
luke-jr	kerio: Nokia has a history not helping	23:36
ShadowJK	10m accuracy sounds good for gps	23:36
ShadowJK	very good	23:36
luke-jr	reminder: this is altitude	23:37
ShadowJK	supernaturally good	23:37
kerio	huh... missing <sarcasm> tags?	23:37
TomaszD	no sarcasm, altitude measurement is notoriously bad with consumer gps	23:38
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