IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-07-21

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hnojacekowski: I still understand what is said.. but only because I also seen the other picture where pins are numbered..00:00
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LjLDocScrutinizer: it went for a good price (the same as it was when i started talking about it) :( - though i think at the very least, you'd have something not too good to say about the pictures00:01
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LjLcan you get neighboring cell information (signal strength) on the N900?00:02
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jacekowskiLjL: you can00:02
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jacekowskiLjL: if you know how to ask rapuyama for it00:02
hnojacekowski: Not sure it was intentional by Rambo to edit the picture there.00:03
jacekowskiand or gazoo00:03
LjLrapuyama? O.o i don't get your injokes :P00:03
ShadowJKgazoo and rapuyama are chips making up the modme00:03
DocScrutinizersimlock vodafone - screwit00:03
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hnoiirc there is GSM AT codes for asking cell information. Just hook up a terminal to the GSM modem and ask...00:04
ShadowJKthe modem doesn't talk AT00:04
hnoIt doesn't?00:04
jacekowskiit does00:04
jacekowskii saw it does00:05
jacekowskisomebody was talking AT to it00:05
hnoPretty sure it does on the UART channel.00:05
ShadowJKThere's a binary daemon in maemo that talks AT and then talks whatever with the modme00:05
lcukbeeeeep beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep beeeeeep bbpebpebpeppebpbepbpbpepbpebpepbepbpepbpbpebpepbeb00:05
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: nope. gazoo is rapuyama's PMU00:05
* lcuk stops talking zx spectrum00:05
ShadowJKah, pnatd. Phonet AT Daemon00:06
DocScrutinizerfsck pnatd00:06
DocScrutinizerdoesn't even know ^C00:06
DocScrutinizeruseless piece of crap00:06
SpeedEvilpnatd does not support most interesting commands00:07
LjLAndroid has APIs for requesting neighboring cell info, but apparently, on a lot of phones (if not all) it returns nothing00:07
SpeedEvilsee that00:07
SpeedEvilAT commands I found to work00:07
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keriohmm... why isn't apt in italian now?00:08
DocScrutinizerpnatd is completely utterly useless worthless crap useful for exactly nothing but do your daily dose of upset00:08
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kerioand where the hell is dpkg-reconfigure00:09
alteregopnatd isn't useless, just needs more command handling :P00:09
SpeedEvilthe above list is quite sparse :(00:09
ShadowJKpnatd is just there to make bluetooth "tethering" work :)00:09
alteregoAnd ^C might be being ignored for good reason ...00:10
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yes, there's alsi ATI2, ATI3 etc :-P00:10
SpeedEvilIt can't even send SMSs00:10
DocScrutinizeralterego: thought about that, but for my life can't find the good reason00:10
ShadowJKWell it's supposed to be pretending to be a tty/serial port...00:11
ShadowJKtry ^D ;-D00:11
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DocScrutinizerI guess I did00:11
DocScrutinizerI guess I tried about all possible shit, incl ~. and ...00:12
DocScrutinizerdunno what00:12
DocScrutinizeralso has no line editing discipline00:13
ShadowJK^\ ?00:13
DocScrutinizerwhich might tell us something, if only I knew what00:14
hnoHmm.. what's the phone app called?00:14
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: tried that as well iirc00:14
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alteregohno: callui00:14
ShadowJKI don't remember my dialup modem having line editing :)00:14
DocScrutinizercellmo-caller-ui or something like that00:14
DocScrutinizerkillall -9 rtcom-call-ui00:15
DocScrutinizerand you'll see00:15
SpeedEvilShadowJK: ctrl-h or bs usually worked in my hardware modems00:15
DocScrutinizernot on pnatd00:15
DocScrutinizeraah bs, yes00:16
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* lcuk is freaked out still00:16
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trip0does maemo use "ohm" currently?00:17
DocScrutinizernope, no bs, no ^D00:18
DocScrutinizerno ^\00:18
trip0DocScrutinizer, "no" to me?00:18
DocScrutinizer^h seems to work00:18
alteregodamnit, thought pnatd would work with nc -l :)00:18
DocScrutinizertrip0: nope, no idea what you said00:19
trip0oh, okay00:19
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DocScrutinizerohm like kill app when runaway? seems I heard about that on maemo00:19
trip0hmm... looks like ohm is running on my n900...00:20
DocScrutinizerjust not too sure what it does00:20
trip0it's stupposed to do things like pause the player when an incoming call comes in00:21
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trip0i'm trying to figure out how "profile" ties into it for meego00:21
DocScrutinizerseemed to remember some max mem usage parameters with ohm when to kill apps00:22
DocScrutinizermaybe I dreamt it00:22
DocScrutinizeras you'd think that's ulimit00:22
trip0oh, so ohm also does ulimit stuff?00:22
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DocScrutinizernah, maybe it was ulimit *for* ohm, somewhere in nitscripts00:24
DocScrutinizerit's really harder than you'd think - to know *everything*00:25
DocScrutinizeratfuckerdv hljadv hljda lhdO-HEPHIÄ00:25
hurbuFU LOL00:26
* DocScrutinizer tears down ssh session with pnatd00:26
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DocScrutinizerPhonet AT commands data port (phonet-at v0.7.6)00:41
DocScrutinizer $Id: kat.c 11225 2008-08-06 13:59:49Z redenisc $00:41
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DocScrutinizer-rwsr-sr-x    1 root     root        12676 Aug 27  2009 /usr/bin/pnatd00:42
DocScrutinizerdoesn't look too smart or even large enough for a decent AT interpreter00:43
kerioDocScrutinizer: 2009 bytes, just disassemble it00:43
DocScrutinizercheck the perms ! XP00:43
SpeedEvilthe modem node must be read/write only by root I guess00:44
DocScrutinizersure, but why is user supposed to have unrestricted access to modem AT interface?00:44
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DocScrutinizerkerio: jacekowski is the divine RE disassembler wizard extraordinaire here :-D00:46
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keriojacekowski: go do your magic00:46
DocScrutinizertbh I'd not even know how to disassemble an arm binary, off top of my head and out of the box00:46
jacekowskiit's just a wrapper00:47
jacekowskithere is probably a /usr/bin/pnatd.launch00:47
DocScrutinizeraround phonet, sure00:47
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DocScrutinizerNokia-N900-42-11:~# find /usr/bin/ /usr/sbin/ /bin /sbin /lib/ /var/lib/ /usr/lib* -name '*pnat*'00:50
steinexi have a question: i want to use rsync to sync my netbooks music to my n900. however, if i use usb mass storage mode i get 'read only fs' errors. wlan is really to slow to do the sync. any ideas?00:50
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steinexi thought about usb networking or something like this, possible?00:51
DocScrutinizernot better than wlan I'd guess00:52
steinexhrm, okay...00:52
steinexjust courious: would i have the same problem if the fat-partition that holds the music wouldn't be fat32?00:52
steinexi guess it would be the same problem with ext3 because the phone sets the fs to ro, right?00:53
DocScrutinizerhmm rsync is a tad hard, between different filesystems I guess00:53
ShadowJKnah it's fine00:53
SpeedEvilscp over usbnet is faster00:53
ShadowJK--modify-window 1 is nice for vfat though00:53
steinexShadowJK: i have this00:53
steinexwell okay, i really should think about mkfs.ext3 for my userdata then..00:54
steinexthanks for the input00:54
SpeedEvilA meg and a half a second - wifi - will move 5G/hou00:54
DocScrutinizerwhy not just cp the whole shit?00:54
DocScrutinizerif you're in mass storage mode anyway00:54
SpeedEvilor 40G/night00:54
ShadowJKmaemo doesn't take kindly to mkfs.ext3 on the MyDocs partition :/00:54
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steinexDocScrutinizer: because i sometimes just edit tags here and there on my netbook and i don't want to copy all the stuff nearly daily00:55
DocScrutinizeryeah, deprecated00:55
steinexinstead i'll rsync the changes in a minute and be done.00:55
jacekowskiso what do we want to know?00:55
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SpeedEvilsteinex: What I did00:55
DocScrutinizerwhy is pnatd such a drag00:55
SpeedEvilsteinex: Tarred up whole contents of MyDocs onto /home00:55
DocScrutinizeror uSD00:56
SpeedEvilsteinex: fdisked to remove mydocs - with usb mass storage enabled so it unmounts on the local side.00:56
SpeedEvilrecreate mydocs as a vfat of 4G on thesame partition number00:56
SpeedEvilmake a ext3 partition in the extra space00:56
SpeedEvilmount that on /home/user/data00:57
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: honestly, maybe there's some itsy bits we could learn from pnatd00:57
steinexSpeedEvil: yeah, thats something i plan to do now00:57
SpeedEviltell tracker to utterly ignore /data - but to track /data/sounds and /data/video00:57
tremnite all, sweet dreams00:57
SpeedEvilthis means that media player and stuff works00:57
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DocScrutinizerask oncle SpeedEvil :-)00:58
ShadowJKI wonder if the block device itelf gets exported read-only, or if the hist mounts it readonly due to fs errors00:58
jacekowski /usr/lib/
jacekowskiany info on that lib?00:58
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: wtf is r/o? usb mass storage?00:59
pigeondoes the google talk/jabber on the n900 support video call?00:59
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: nope00:59
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, that's what he said00:59
jacekowskipigeon: yes00:59
DocScrutinizerit'd be utterly worthless01:00
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pigeonjacekowski: cool, thanks.01:00
ShadowJK<steinex> i have a question: i want to use rsync to sync my netbooks music to my n900. however, if i use usb mass storage mode i get 'read only fs' errors. wlan is really to slow to do the sync. any ideas?01:00
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it looks like all phonet shit is done in that libisi01:00
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DocScrutinizerI'd not believe that until I read detailed errormsg01:01
ShadowJKThat oFono module that talks to Nokia modems is called isimodem iirc01:01
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: phonet sounds about right01:01
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DocScrutinizerknew I heard it somewhere, thanks ShadowJK01:01
jacekowskimy brain just melted01:02
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alteregolibisi is what pnatd uses.01:02
alteregoforgot what it means though :)01:02
DocScrutinizerlibisi is probably what phonet lives in (the older sibling of nborn ofono)01:03
alteregoofono is a replacement yeah01:03
alteregofor a closed kernel module/s and isi01:03
jacekowskiISI library is for sending/receiving and coding/decoding ISI messages. This package contains runtime support for using libisi together with Glib.01:03
ShadowJKI didnt know there was a closed kernel module :)01:03
jacekowskiwtf is isi01:03
DocScrutinizerhead we hot no closed kernel modules01:04
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DocScrutinizerisi is easy :-P01:04
alteregophonet is the kernel module I belive01:05
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: any enlightening words?01:05
ShadowJKphonet kernel drivers are opensource01:05
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alteregoOh cool01:05
DocScrutinizerand libisi is the closed part01:05
jacekowskiis pnatd lifeguarded?01:05
DocScrutinizerI'd guess01:05
ShadowJKbut they're not interesting01:05
ShadowJKjust message passing iirc01:05
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: wut?01:05
jacekowskidsme lifeguard01:06
alteregoYeah, I think I looked at the symbols once and it was basically ofono01:06
jacekowskihmm, nvm01:06
* DocScrutinizer shoots down pnatd with a railgun01:06
ShadowJKpnatd doesnt run typically01:06
jacekowskiit doesn't look like it's communicating with dsme01:06
ShadowJKit's normally started by bluez on incomming DUN connection on bluetooth01:06
alteregoAnyone got pnatd working with netcat? :)01:06
ShadowJKto talk AT with the DUN client01:06
DocScrutinizermuhaha, so it should at least know atd*9**fsckmegntly#01:07
alteregoI thought it was used for usb modem01:07
alteregobt is thir party :P01:07
ShadowJKoh yeah usb modem too01:08
alteregoyou mean primarily, BT DUN is third party ...01:08
ShadowJKbt tethering enabler is almost just uncommenting it in the conf ;p01:09
alteregoOh really?01:09
alteregoI suppose it's just adding a bt service and rfcomm listening and invoking pnatd01:10
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ShadowJKexec rfcomm -S -- listen -1 1 /usr/bin/pnatd '{}'01:11
DocScrutinizerexec rfcomm?? what a cruft is that?01:11
ShadowJKfrom the upstart script01:12
DocScrutinizeraah, suppose it's upstart01:12
ShadowJKalso a second line to advertise dun on sdp01:12
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alteregoShadowJK: so it's not config then, you're just using upstart to run rfcomm and sdptool heh01:14
alteregoAdmittedly I'd probably do it the same ..01:14
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alteregoI would auto select the channel though01:14
* DocScrutinizer muses over rfcomm and sdptool01:15
alteregoDocScrutinizer: they're fun.01:15
DocScrutinizermeh, man rfcomm : man : not found01:15
alteregoI've got a bluetooth to RS232 adapter, can work as host or slave.01:16
DocScrutinizermhm --help always comes handy01:16
alteregoSo I can actually use my N900 as a modem for an old machine with RS232 port01:17
Arkenoialterego: what was the price?01:17
* Arkenoi wants one too01:17
alteregoIf you're interested SP is serial device.01:18
alteregoYou can use: sdptool search SP01:18
alteregoto find BT devices with serial ports.01:18
* DocScrutinizer mutates to MrHacker01:19
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alteregouh oh01:20
alteregohci* are also useful01:20
DocScrutinizerlookatthatshit! APPLE ISYNC01:20
alteregohcitool scan01:20
DocScrutinizerI know hcitool01:20
alteregoDo we have a BT PAN solution for the N900?01:21
DocScrutinizerwas indispensable with Openmoko FR BT01:22
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DocScrutinizeralterego: thought so01:22
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DocScrutinizerglad you like it :-D01:34
alteregoI'd still like to get pnatd to work with netcat01:38
alteregoI would have thought it'd work out-of-the-box01:39
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ShadowJKfucking shit01:52
ShadowJKa bat dropped down on my head01:52
DocScrutinizerone of my little friends?01:53
asjShadowJK: what continent?01:53
DocScrutinizerthose with the wings?01:53
ShadowJKyeah, wings01:53
jacekowskiwhich part of europe?01:53
asjShadowJK: come to .AU where the bats are the size of house cats, then you can complain01:53
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jacekowskiasj: and spiders are so big that they have health bars01:54
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ShadowJKI was in bed and heard something scratching the ceiling/wall overhead, and then there was flapping on my head01:54
asjjacekowski: heh :) hey, I have heard a saucer sized huntsman walking accross the a wall01:54
ShadowJKI don't think I've ever leaped out of bed and closed the door behind me so fast before01:55
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ShadowJKthen I peaked back in, and there was a bat flying around01:55
DocScrutinizerpoor little batty01:55
asjShadowJK: here bats called Flying Foxes roost in all the trees and frequently seem to get into fights with each other and you hear this bashing, screaming and then crashing and swoosh off it goes01:55
ShadowJKtook half an hour to find clothes and tools to catch it with01:56
ShadowJKand now I can't bloody find it01:56
asjlook on the ceiling in a corner01:56
nextimeasj  in AU you have also bad educated opossum.01:56
ShadowJKyep, all corners clear01:56
DocScrutinizerlook on the floor, they get pretty fast exhausted and go down01:56
nextimethey piss on the rain sensor of my robotized telescope closing the roof.01:56
asjnextime: it would be eaiser to educate them if you could kill them ;)01:57
ShadowJKcurtains clear, floor looks clear01:57
nextimeasj: i'm too far away to kill them01:57
ShadowJKbut i have so much junk..01:57
asjShadowJK: maybe he got out?01:57
ShadowJKyeah it's a possibility...01:57
DocScrutinizerif you got no light01:57
asjthere, with people for fize01:58
DocScrutinizerthey don't fly from lit room into the dark, strange enough01:58
ShadowJKI had no light when it happened, I switched on light when I peeked, and left it on01:58
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ShadowJKso it would be light room -> dark closet -> damaged net that looks easy to get in through and hard to get out through01:59
DocScrutinizera abt falling down, what the F*** happend to it?01:59
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DocScrutinizerwhat's been wrong with that bat?01:59
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yep02:00
DocScrutinizerwill find out when there's no light02:00
ShadowJKI had a tower fan on at max blast, it could have been flying around unnoticed for forever, maybe it tried to land in the ceiling corner and didn't get a good grip and fell down02:00
ShadowJKand swooped down on me02:00
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ShadowJKoh if I leave light on it'll stay put?02:01
DocScrutinizeralso the fan might have confused the shit out of it02:01
ShadowJKit's not the first time I have a bet, but first time it has dropped down and first time I haven't found it aftwerwards..02:02
DocScrutinizerI watched one not leaving my room thru open window for ~1h, always did a U-turn where the glass of window would normally be. Then I switched off light and out it was in 10s02:02
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DocScrutinizeras if they are afraid of dark when in bright room02:03
ShadowJKit might have left into other room when I briefly opened door and grabbed some clothes..02:04
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ShadowJKbut it's not there either :/02:04
DocScrutinizerhope you used nice new nightmode of n900 cam to shoot a few photos02:04
* DocScrutinizer opens window to garden and waits for his friens the bats drop in02:05
ShadowJKyou kidding? I shot up so fast the blanket flew halfway across the room02:05
ShadowJKand my n900 not quite as far02:05
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* DocScrutinizer makes notice on whiteboard to finally build a house for his friends and hang it to the wall of house02:07
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DocScrutinizers/house/big house/202:08
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ShadowJKokay you crazy bat man, come take your friend home02:08
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* DocScrutinizer requests rapport about completeness of personell from chief of bat army02:10
jacekowskiso what's the problem with pnatd anyways?02:12
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jacekowskibecause it looks like it's just stupid interface between pty and phonet using libisi02:13
DocScrutinizerit's stupid, and it doesn't honor ^C02:13
jacekowskibecause it takes over controlling terminal02:13
jacekowskipnatd -h02:13
jacekowskiif you would kill it there will be no controlling terminal anymore02:13
jacekowskiit'll be just dead terminal02:14
jacekowskiit's broken by design02:14
jacekowskibut try pnatd -h02:14
DocScrutinizerpnatd --help just tells me pnatd is ... BS02:15
jacekowskiUsage: pnatd [/dev/<tty_device_name> | -p] [-r]02:15
jacekowskiOpen a TTY line and handle AT commands from it using Phonet.02:15
jacekowski -p  create a pseudo-terminal instead of opening an existing terminal02:15
jacekowski -r  restart whenever the terminal is hung up (until fatal error)02:15
jacekowski -V  print version informations and exit02:15
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DocScrutinizerso what?02:16
ds3can multiple copies of pnatd be run at once?02:16
jacekowskiit looks like phonet and rapuyama can deal with it02:16
jacekowskiso multiple clients can talk to modem02:17
DocScrutinizeryou bet they will get confused eventually02:17
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jacekowskievery client get's unique identifier02:17
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DocScrutinizermhm, and what'll happen if two calls placed concurrently02:17
DocScrutinizereven data calls?02:18
jacekowskicellmo can handle it02:18
jacekowskiuserland can't02:18
jacekowskibut data and voice at the same time is possible with current userland02:18
DocScrutinizercellmo can *not* handle two concurrent data transmissions02:18
DocScrutinizerat least if they are of same type02:19
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DocScrutinizereither GPRS or CSD02:19
DocScrutinizerprobably a CSD and a GPRS data connection can live concurrently02:20
keriowait, what02:20
keriotwo concurrent calls?02:20
DocScrutinizerkerio: see? it sounds as impossible as it is02:21
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DocScrutinizerusually on a modem you have methods like mux0710 to open up to 4 channels, each of them acting like a individual AT interpreter. But still you can't do things that the stack doesn't support02:23
ShadowJKum, on symbian the modem can handle two concurrent data connections fine02:25
DocScrutinizerI honestly doubt that02:25
ShadowJK(but when I was roaming in germany on vodafone, vodafone only allowed one data)02:25
DocScrutinizerestablish GPRS data connection02:26
DocScrutinizerwon't fly with two concurrent requests02:26
ShadowJKI used to have two data connections with my symbian phones all the time. One for symbian and one for n810 over bt. each device got their own public ip02:26
DocScrutinizerat least I never heard of such thing02:27
ShadowJKenemy of the internet, using so many public IPs ;-)02:27
DocScrutinizerwell that's DHCP, but not the basic OTA data connection (aka carrier, on other technologies)02:28
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DocScrutinizerover DSL you also can run deveral independent DHCP logical connections, but you can't request the DSL modem to open up a second channel02:29
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DocScrutinizeron GPRS you probably wouldn't even have a means to configure different APN for the "concurrent connections"02:30
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ShadowJKoh I've done that too02:30
ShadowJKdifferent APNs02:31
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keriogprs has no way to open two concurrent connections02:31
DocScrutinizerexactly kerio02:31
luke-jrI don't get what APNs are02:31
keriomaybe umts can02:31
DocScrutinizersettings . internet-connections - connection - <yourGPRSconnection> - "EDIT" - "forward" ->here you are: Name of AccessPoint, UserName, Password02:35
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ShadowJKaccess point02:39
ShadowJKlike the mms access point gets you into some isp lan where you only find the mms and wap and the whole gsm/3g clusterfuck nih servers02:40
Arkenoikerio: so how do you send/receive MMS while connected via GPRS?02:40
DocScrutinizerfor those who want it at one click02:40
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DocScrutinizerobviously MMS needs a different APN, and so probably GPRS is torn down for MMS data cnnection to establish, and then when MMS is done it switches back to standard APN. Not sure about that, but sounds logical to me02:42
DocScrutinizerask frals02:43
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ShadowJKit's done like that in maemo because icd/whatever is unable to do more than one at a time02:43
DocScrutinizeror just do a ping flood with timestamped packets during MMS rx02:44
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I'd say GPRS OTA protocol is unable to do more than one at a time02:44
DocScrutinizerbut meh02:44
luke-jrT-Mobile supposedly only has one APN now02:44
DocScrutinizerfor all?02:45
DocScrutinizerMMS and data service?02:45
DocScrutinizers/data service/internet access02:45
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DocScrutinizerand WAP :-P02:46
rafaelbrandaoI've been running a program and as soon as it finishes, it makes my n810 freezes and restart. how can I figure out what is happening?02:46
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: supposely02:46
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: the only one I can make practical use of is a discontinued one ;02:46
DocScrutinizerrafaelbrandao: nasty02:47
rafaelbrandaothat program is the one I've been trying to make it work. now that it finally works, it makes me sad.02:47
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ShadowJKwhat program?02:48
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rafaelbrandaoexample program from libfprint. I'm trying to get my fingerprint enrolled.02:48
ShadowJKis it using alot of ram?02:49
rafaelbrandaohmm... I don't know, really.02:49
DocScrutinizerstrace >somefile. Hope somefile holds some helpful info after crash02:49
ShadowJKvmstat 1 >somefile02:50
DocScrutinizercheck /var/log/messages02:50
DocScrutinizerprolly will need to install klogd/syslogd for that02:50
ShadowJK/proc/bootreason after freeze02:51
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DocScrutinizerdunno if diablo has crashdumplog in /dev/mtdblk202:51
DocScrutinizeror somewhere02:51
DocScrutinizerbut sounds like a kernel panic anyway02:52
DocScrutinizerso probably that strange fingerprint prog comes with some nasty kernel driver02:52
DocScrutinizerthat maybe crashes on unload02:53
rafaelbrandaooh no x_x02:53
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rafaelbrandaoShadowJK, just tried the /proc/bootreason but it says I don't have permission, even being root.02:53
ShadowJKcat /proc/bootreason02:54
DocScrutinizerls -l  /proc/bootreason02:54
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: x.x02:54
rafaelbrandaohere says: 32wd_to02:54
DocScrutinizerkernel been busy with excessive swapping. prog uses too much ram02:55
DocScrutinizermy guess02:55
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ShadowJKmine too02:56
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ShadowJKdoes it use the camera?02:56
luke-jrdoes the proximity sensor do anything useful?02:57
asjluke-jr: yes?02:57
DocScrutinizerdetectproximity? :-P02:57
luke-jrasj: such as?02:57
asjluke-jr: not dial with your ear02:57
asjluke-jr: not dial while in your pocket02:57
ShadowJKit switches off the screen when you put the phone to your head during a call02:57
luke-jrasj: that was my hope02:57
luke-jractually, I was hoping it could be made to never turn the screen off when it was visible02:58
asjso you want it to work backwards?02:58
luke-jrI like that it auto-locks in my pocket/ear02:58
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luke-jrI just don't want it to ever turn off when I'm looking at it02:58
DocScrutinizeractually you *can* dial with prox sensor covered :-(02:59
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asjluke-jr: use the 2nd camera for face recognition? if you have any cpu power can use the phone02:59
luke-jrwhy not the proximity?02:59
asjluke-jr: it can't see they you are looking at it02:59
DocScrutinizerseems prox sensor is acive during established call only, by default03:00
asjDocScrutinizer: heh, who did you call? ex?03:01
DocScrutinizerNokia-N900-42-11:/sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity# cat state03:02
DocScrutinizerNokia-N900-42-11:/sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity# cat state03:02
DocScrutinizerworks though03:02
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luke-jrasj: if there's nothing directly in front of it, I'm usually looking at it03:02
DocScrutinizerclosed means covered03:02
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: open/close is also logged :)03:03
DocScrutinizeropen means "you're looking at it"03:03
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: I'd be surprised if it were active all the time. OTOH cam lens slider switch *is* active all the time, and it's same component03:04
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: it seems to be03:05
DocScrutinizermeh, seems far IR. Cam doesn't show any activity, though there evidently has to be some03:06
DocScrutinizerergo-> cam can't detect pox's IR03:07
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DocScrutinizercam *can* detect CIR LED though, nice blue(!)03:11
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asjmy phone is sitting on the desk right now face up, not looking at it ;)03:21
luke-jrasj: if it was on, you'd see it03:22
luke-jrI might want mine to show a fullscreen clock in that case :)03:23
luke-jrtoo bad the case doesn't have some kind of human-contact sensor03:23
DocScrutinizerCIR LED as seen by N900 maincam (without using a mirror or a black hole :-P)
luke-jrVideos are unable to play. Either you have an older version of Adobe's Flash player, or javascript is turned off. Update to the latest Flash player.03:24
luke-jrno still?03:24
DocScrutinizermicrob playback is absolute crap on mp4 recorded with N900. download and playback with mediaplayer03:24
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: same here on laptop. Use N900 :-P03:24
DocScrutinizermicrob is uttering some AdobeFlash9 when getting contxt menu of video03:25
DocScrutinizerno idea what's wrong on desktop linux03:26
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: N900 is building kdelibs03:27
DocScrutinizerkill -sigstop03:28
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: no thanks03:29
luke-jrN900 can't build WebKit still03:29
luke-jrbut then, I also discovered people were havign trouble building it on x86 with 4 GB RAM :P03:30
luke-jrapparently that thing is really really really greedy03:30
ShadowJKsounds like c++03:30
DocScrutinizermp4 and ovi share both suck03:30
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luke-jrShadowJK: please explain the relevance of C++ to the linker.03:31
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asjluke-jr: it seems to have an enormous number of symbols, C++ may not help there03:31
asjand it seems to trigger some linker bugs on other platforms too03:32
luke-jrof course, then there's cmake...03:33
luke-jrpiece of crap03:33
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lcukDocScrutinizer, thats a pretty hue.03:42
lcukhow well does it come through with the face cam?03:42
lcukand at what sort of range03:43
lcukwhen i looked with the normal cam it wasnt great and i know theres a filter over the face-cam03:43
cehtehthat filter is called touchscreen foil :P03:44
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lcukahh DocScrutinizer its coming through reasonably03:44
lcukand if i did it to detect temporal flashing03:44
DocScrutinizerlost me03:45
rafaelbrandaoabout the libfprint issue, the program is executed and finished, then a few seconds later: everything is frozen and the system restart. :\03:46
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Gryllidais it the right place to ask about how to upload to maemo extras?03:46
lcukDocScrutinizer, shine your IR led into the face came and record it03:46
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DocScrutinizerwouldn't even know how to do that03:46
lcukwelcome Gryllida, ask sensible questions and we will try to answer03:47
lcukDocScrutinizer, ok nm just ponderments03:47
lcuki just shone my remote control into face cam and saw it flashing03:47
lcukhence the temporal bit ;)03:47
DocScrutinizeruse 3. flash with maybe 25 Hz03:49
DocScrutinizerget a pretty decent signal, even with bright sunlight interfering03:49
lcukyeah, attempt to sync with the cam03:49
lcukyeah the flashing has a problem03:49
DocScrutinizerok, make that 12Hz03:49
lcukit would effectively halve the res03:49
lcukdetection points would be 2x as far away03:50
lcukbecause i cannot accurately locate where it isnt - although, i could interpolate03:50
lcukbut i would be gaining 1 frame of lag03:50
DocScrutinizercan't accurately tell where it isn't - nicely put03:51
DocScrutinizerwithout sync you'll even have 2 frames as you always get one frame crap03:52
lcukyeah aliasing effects03:52
DocScrutinizereven rolling shutter03:52
lcuksure, the leds arent really a problem03:53
lcuki grab gravitational centre of blobs03:53
lcukso even a smear works nicely03:53
lcukas long as its on the same frame ;)03:53
DocScrutinizeryeah that'S the point of rolling shutter03:54
lcuk<lcuk> welcome Gryllida, ask sensible questions and we will try to answer03:54
DocScrutinizermay see two on one off03:54
lcukyeah at least bright only i am able to grab at ~25fps03:54
GryllidaThaank you lcuk, I've uploaded a package to Maemo Extras website and seem to be unable to find where to edit its description.03:54
lcukGryllida, the debian packaging itself specifies the description03:55
lcukit is the central source for your information - configure the package and include description as per debian packaging specifications and the description will come through03:55
DocScrutinizerit's in file named 'control'03:56
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MohammadAGumm, how do I check which process has /var/lib/dpkg/lock locked?03:59
lcukits either ham fapman or dpkg :P03:59
Gryllidalcuk: I uploaded the source to the website, including the filled-out 'control' file, it compiles and orks on the Maemo machine. However the website builds it and then the description doesn't show up.03:59
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lcukGryllida, which package is it04:00
MohammadAGlcuk, heh, not on my PC04:00
MohammadAGoh and ham doesn't lock it, apt-worker does :P04:00
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: fuser?04:00
* lcuk throws a frals @ u04:00
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, tried that but...04:01
MohammadAGmohammad@mohammad-laptop:~$ fuser /var/lib/dpkg/lock04:01
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DocScrutinizererr, so it's not locked but shere existence of lockfile is the problem. Just rm XP04:01
Gryllidalcuk, 'which' as in?04:02
MohammadAGtouch worked04:02
* MohammadAG installs hildon-desktop on his laptop04:02
lcukGryllida, I meant what is the name of your package and the url that is not showing what you expect.04:02
DocScrutinizerGryllida: name of package, URL etc04:02
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Gryllida ...04:03
* Gryllida hides04:03
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MohammadAGhildon-desktop doesn't start04:06
DocScrutinizerGryllida: strange04:06
lcukGryllida, on the packages page you just linked to, the description is correct04:06
Gryllidaas in, I don't see it at all?04:07
lcukDescription: A simple Qt application for testing eyes vision acuity.04:07
lcuk .04:07
lcuk Further Information: qt4.garage.maemo.org04:07
lcukA simple Qt application for testing eyes vision acuity.04:07
lcukFurther Information: qt4.garage.maemo.org04:07
* Gryllida doesn't see it04:08
MohammadAGAttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getName' <- any ideas?04:08
lcuki am going to bed, but Gryllida refresh the page perhaps04:08
* lcuk shrugs and heads off to bed04:08
Gryllidaoh, ok, looks like it's there now04:08
DocScrutinizernightynight lcuk04:08
Gryllidagood night04:08
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MohammadAGnight lcuk04:09
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* DocScrutinizer off for his special flavour of relaxing04:10
DocScrutinizeraka falling catatonic watching shit in TV04:10
DocScrutinizer51tell you, this auto portrait is a PITA04:13
MohammadAGugh, damn hildon-desktop04:14
DocScrutinizer51and seems sh-ctl-r is working everywhere to switch it off at least ?-D04:14
DocScrutinizer51:-D even04:15
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DocScrutinizer51well I can say I don't particularly like xchat in portrait mode04:33
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opdf2Sometimes when I go back to a previos webpage, MicroB doesn't show it until I scroll. Is that normal?04:45
Gryllidahi, any organisators of online?04:46
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DrGrovSorry for off-topic but this is the place to ask from mobile gurus04:48
DrGrovIs it possible to use a Blackberry in Europe?04:48
DocScrutinizerwhy not?04:49
asjsome blackberries are cdma only04:49
DocScrutinizeryeah, those won't have an easy time here04:50
DrGrovAny idea where to buy one and get 3G support and hopefully unlocked ?04:50
DocScrutinizerblue... err blackberries are sold in every mobile store here though04:50
* DocScrutinizer shrugs04:51
DrGrovUnfortunately the problem in Finland that there is no official retailer04:51
asjDrGrov: well buy one with 2100mhz umts support, it'll be listed as part of the spec04:51
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luke-jrso is there any hope whatsoever for N900 GPS?04:52
DocScrutinizergprs 4band + umts ans you should be fine with it. Then get dataplan of whatever provider of your choice04:52
DrGrovI have a dataplan already04:52
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: huh?04:52
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: looks like it's basically closed as N810, but worse04:53
DrGrovasj: ok, thanks. i will search for that.04:53
DrGrovI thought I would like to give a Blackberry a run for its money04:53
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: undocumented phonet protocol, and doesn't even output NMEA04:53
DocScrutinizeryou'll have to live with some Nokia blob04:54
DocScrutinizerunless someone REs it04:54
luke-jrso MeeGo will be GPS-less?04:55
DocScrutinizershouldn't be too hard probably, as I guess the main heavy lifting algorithm wise is done inside the GPS chip anyway, and it's just the friggin intergace and dataformat therein that isn't exaactly convenient04:56
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DocScrutinizergood question, I have no idea04:56
DocScrutinizerI'd guess ofono will deal with it04:56
DocScrutinizeras GPS is part of the cellmo aiui04:57
DocScrutinizerdunno where from those dudes have their specs04:57
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DrGrovShould I buy a new Blackberry or a used one? Which is the better way to go?04:58
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Termanagood morning05:01
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GAN900Stupid shit GPS05:46
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GAN900eCoach now thinks my top speed on my run was 49MPH. . . .05:46
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asjGAN900: sounds like ecoach needs some filtering05:48
mortiniGAN900: sweeet.05:52
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jaem'Evening folks05:53
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jaemDoes anyone know what the purpose of the /usr/lib/cruft directory on my N900 is?05:56
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jaemI looked at the script in there, but I wasn't sure of the context.05:56
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MohammadAG51the N900's cam takes epic photos06:22
MohammadAG51without the battery cover06:22
jaemIt makes a difference?06:22
MohammadAG51a big difference tbh06:23
* jaem gets out the duct tape06:23
MohammadAG51the blue part makes photos look shit06:23
asjand your battery cover isn't scratched up/dirty?06:23
MohammadAG51no, it has an annoying blue colour on the slide06:23
MohammadAG51which the flash reflects from06:24
MohammadAG51to make it worse, a chrome bezel surrounds that :p06:24
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jaemMohammadAG51: Thanks for the tip - I'll check that out later.06:24
* MohammadAG51 needs a black marker06:25
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luke-jrso... moving 30 metres changes 2 values in the GPS data06:27
jaemMohammadAG51: I have one in my pocket if you can figure out a way to pass it to you over IRC :)06:28
MohammadAG51DCC, duh :P06:29
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jaemMohammadAG51: Ah, right.06:30
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MohammadAG51~seen javispedro06:31
infobotjavispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 55d 2h 32m 17s ago, saying: 'oh.. aisleriot solitaire with clutter/3D vista-like animations! port port port !'.06:31
asjMohammadAG: interesting, that makes me want to find a spare cover and "adjust" it06:32
MohammadAG51yeah, should be doable06:33
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MohammadAG51pry off blue part, break apart, use matte black square, reassemble with... well, what Nokia uses, glue06:34
SpeedEvilluke: gps?06:35
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SpeedEvilMaybe GAN's run really was 49MPH - if he can write as he types.06:36
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SpeedEvilrun as06:36
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GAN900I wish.06:39
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luke-jroctets 2e and 2f make up GPS eph06:55
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: yeah06:55
luke-jrSpeedEvil: analyzing the data from the phonet GPS socket06:55
luke-jr0x30 *might* be the fraction of the GPS eph06:56
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* luke-jr ponders what units it uses to represent lat/lon06:59
MohammadAG51kelvins, cause it's that messed up07:00
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MohammadAG51yay, My Nokia crashes now07:01
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: care to get me a GPS packet from a different lat/lon? :)07:06
luke-jrMohammadAG51: I don't think kelvins can represent coordinates...07:06
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luke-jrstrace -p 6225 -e read=6 2>&1 | grep '| 000'07:07
luke-jrwhere 6225 is the PID of location-daemon07:07
Macermaybe if you were able to measure the bmr and determine the quantum state of each individual coordinate of space and reference it in a 6 dimentional grid07:08
Macerdetermining the spread of energy across the universe and keeping it constantly updated as the energy spreads throughout the system.. then you can use kelvins07:09
MohammadAG51luke-jr, how long should it take?07:09
luke-jrMohammadAG51: a few seconds07:09
MohammadAG51oh, done07:10
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MohammadAG51why isn't there a hex calculator on the N90007:10
luke-jrcc-byte long one is ideal07:10
asjMohammadAG51: install the hp calculator07:10
MohammadAG51already installed, sec07:11
MohammadAG51why aren't there casio emulators07:11
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luke-jrMohammadAG51: gonna pastebin it? :P07:12
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MohammadAG51yeah... right :P07:15
MohammadAG51i would, since i don't usually give a crap, but at a friend's house so, nope :P07:16
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MohammadAG51luke-jr, hmm, got something to show lon/lat on a map?07:21
luke-jrMohammadAG51: Google Maps?07:22
MohammadAG51N900 friendly?07:22
luke-jrOvi Maps?07:22
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MohammadAG51that's kinda close07:24
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MohammadAG51luke-jr, convert both values to hex, then check the first two numbers on google maps07:25
MohammadAG51err, to decimals07:25
luke-jrMohammadAG51: they're nothing like my lat/lon :/07:26
MohammadAG51seems to be an out of syntax lon/lat07:26
luke-jrand that's to be expected07:26
luke-jrI can't walk far enough to change lat/lon :)07:26
MohammadAG51weird, they were close here07:26
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luke-jrI went about 30m07:26
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luke-jrwhat was close?07:27
MohammadAG51the lon/lat...07:27
luke-jrwhat values are you looking at? :P07:27
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luke-jrI didn't specify the two values I was07:27
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cehtehwhen you have bad fix (my wlan/cell tower triangulation) then coords are quite static07:27
cehtehaka same position for *some* hundred meters around07:28
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ShadowJKCheck if they match CellIDs07:46
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ShadowJKI'd suspect that liblocation queries servers over internet to map cellid to coordinates07:47
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cehtehyou can query the quality of the fix (how it was obtained and precision)08:00
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MohammadAG51Night (or morning, since it's 8AM :/)08:04
cehteh7:00 here :P08:05
MohammadAG51been awake since 1 PM08:06
RST38h"We plan to be rebellious, loud, challenging, critical and outrageously creative  right at the heart of Symbian governance."08:06
StskeepsRST38h: [citation needed]08:06
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RST38h-- The Symbian Developer Cooperative08:06
RST38hStskeeps: Happy now? ;)08:06
* MohammadAG51 bans RST38h from the wiki08:07
StskeepsRST38h: oh dear08:07
* RST38h gives a satanic laugh08:08
StskeepsRST38h: then again, it does illustrate where meego has some benefits08:08
StskeepsRST38h: there's very little red tape for any contribution, compared to the shitload in this one..08:09
slonopotamusoutrageously creative! oh my08:09
asj -- I like that one better08:11
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RST38hStskeeps: I do not see it that way08:12
RST38hSTskeeps: What I see is business as usual. Nokia adapting Moblin to replae Debian in Maemo. Intel continuing to develop several strains of Moblin for different devices, including mobile.08:13
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RST38hStskeeps: Grudgingly accepting Qt as its toolkit08:14
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RST38hStskeeps: As to the rest of us, we are left to watch technology demos08:14
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Stskeepsmm, i would disagree, but ok08:15
Stskeepswhile i do complain a lot, there is good parts of what's going on and very positive things08:15
RST38hStskeeps: Continuity with Maemo has been successfully broken by moving the whole meego thing to a different site with a different forum.08:15
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Stskeepsotoh, not bringing over the large wad of idiots from tmo..08:16
RST38hStskeeps: I am sure there are positive things going on, but the overall direction is as I described above08:16
Stskeepsyou're thinking continuity with though, in terms of maemo, it's not a big leap from the initial harmattan architecture descriptions08:16
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RST38hStskeeps: I am not sure not bringing the lemmings has been worth losing continuity08:16
Stskeepswhere the OS would be a minimal core with a qt stack on top08:17
RST38hStskeeps: Yea, as I said before, Meego is just another generation of Maemo08:17
RST38hStskeeps: So, insisting on it being something new, with its own web sites, forum, etc is rather counterproductive08:17
RST38hStskeeps: Especially after Nokia claimed that it "brings community to the Meego deal"08:18
Stskeepswell, i disagree, but so it goes08:18
* Stskeeps wonders why his laptop sound is hosed08:19
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luke-jrStskeeps: any idea on GPS phonet protocol?08:20
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cehtehNMEA in EBCDIC :)08:25
RST38hWhen the US government needed to encrypt their data, they contacted IBM for that.08:27
RST38hAnd IBM came up with EBCDIC.08:27
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Stskeepsluke-jr: no sorry, check ISI headers08:29
Stskeepsthere's this closed pkg with all isi messages, cellmo-something08:29
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luke-jrthere is no cellmo-* anything08:31
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Stskeepsdid you add the closed nokia-binaries repo to your sdk?08:32
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luke-jrI don't use a SDK08:34
Stskeepswell then08:34
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luke-jr says Nokia added then removed it08:34
luke-jrso I guess there's no place to get it08:34
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Stskeepsah, lovely08:34
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luke-jrStskeeps: I managed to figure out a couple of items08:38
luke-jrbut not the all-important lat/lon :/08:38
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iPeter-what could be wrong. i got tv cables, i connect it to tv and output is black. i hear sounds..08:57
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redeemanSpeedEvil, tried offline mode now, doesnt change anything08:58
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LiraNuna;_; @ vsync bug09:23
LiraNunaso annoying09:23
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cehtehvsync bug? .. there is no vsync at all :P09:36
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LiraNunacehteh, yeah, that ;_;09:41
cehtehit cant be buggy when its not there :)09:42
LiraNunameh, you know what I mean09:42
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Stskeepsluke-jr: meh, tokyo magnitude is depressing :P10:09
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peb_STSkeeps, are you based in Tokyo?10:16
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peb_Ok, I should grab a cup of coffee first before joining IRC communications ..10:16
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ljpStskeeps is an anime?10:22
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* Stskeeps ponders idly what the ubuntu guys were smoking when moving all buttons to left side of window10:29
TermanaN900ljp, as in the name of one? not an anime fan, but i dont think so10:29
TermanaN900Stskeeps is in an anime though10:30
ljpi guess its better than being a shell script10:30
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RST38hStskeeps: were playing pocket billiards most likely10:31
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CokeHi guys! My N900 disconnects rather often from the mobile internet and then cannot reconnect unless I do a restart. Is this a problem with my SIM-card, the carrier or Maemo?10:34
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kejenis there a spellchecker for microb? I would of bet my car there was before today, but seriously can't find one.10:36
TermanaN900Coke, have you tried in another phone?10:36
toggles_wanyone know how to delete modest contacts? if I delete a contact in the adress book modest for some reasno still hangs on to it..10:36
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CokeTermanaN900: no. sry.10:37
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jacekowskiTuco11: it's same address book as your contact list10:38
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TermanaN900Coke, mine never does it and i can stay connected basically all day. So i would say its something to do with your carrier or maybe the APN your using?10:39
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CokeTermanaN900: APN ?10:41
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CokeTermanaN900: yeah, might just be the carrier.10:41
CokeJust wanted to check with another N900 owner.10:41
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kejenanyone know about a spell checker for microb?10:44
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jacekowskiyeah, brain10:44
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CokeTermanaN900: thanks for the reply!10:46
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iPeter-what could be wrong. i got tv cables, i connect it to tv and output is black. i hear sounds..11:05
iPeter-os maemo 511:05
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RST38hiPeter: check PAL/NTSC mode selection11:17
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iPeter-RST38h: its on pal and here we use pal11:23
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nidOobvious question, you're plugging the cables into the right sort of 3-socket composite input, not rgb inputs, right?11:30
RST38hHe must have got a SCART for RGB11:31
* RST38h laughs satanically11:31
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TermanaN900RST38h, you laugh like that a lot lately - have you been to hell and back?11:32
nidOwell, or hes trying to put the three composite cables into three of the 5 inputs available for component rgb :p11:32
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nidOthatd give sound if he gets the right one plugged in right, but no picture obviously11:32
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iPeter-no. it worked before n same tv, same cable..11:35
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KhertanMorning everyone11:37
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iPeter-its 3socet yellow, white and red, works on ext3 channel11:37
iPeter-RST38h: ..11:37
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iPeter-and when i plug it in, screen on tv changes from blue to black..11:38
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kerioso... is the front camera *that* crappy or it's just Mirror that sucks?11:42
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jacekowskifront camera is the problem11:42
X-FadeMirror doesn't use the sunglasses compensation :)11:42
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MiXu-Does it look equally crappy in video calls?11:43
X-FadeThey clean it up a bit.11:43
MiXu-Is it fullscreen in video call, or smaller?11:43
jacekowskiwell, it's still a crap11:43
iPeter-but anyone 2 my question?11:43
X-Fadejacekowski: Yes, but not as crappy :)11:44
MiXu-smaller -> doesn't look as crappy :)11:44
MiXu-small pile of shit is better than a big pile.11:44
jacekowskibut it's still pile of shit11:44
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DocScrutinizermoin konttori11:52
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Scelthas nokia released yet any info about the first meego device? model name, prototype images or anything?11:54
X-FadeScelt: Do you really think you'd need to ask that if so?11:54
StskeepsScelt: gruntmaster 300011:55
Sceltthanks for the very precious information!11:55
Sceltyou really answered my humble question11:55
iPeter-first meegodevice can make coffee11:55
DocScrutinizerany PR1.3 yet?11:56
iPeter-atleast that proto what they made11:56
Sceltyou are so sweet guys11:56
iPeter-why i get only black screen when i connect my n900 to tv? i hear sounds from tv but no video..11:57
DocScrutinizerScelt: Nokia *never* announces new items, the appear magically when they appear11:57
iPeter-Scelt: #meego11:57
infobotfrom memory, pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now.....11:58
SceltDocScrutinizer: I've seen images of N811:58
DocScrutinizerseems we should augment that to any new PR evrsion rsp new device11:58
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DocScrutinizerScelt: there are also indications next device might be internal name RX-71, and maybe has no hw-kbd except a dialing block12:01
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X-FadeHmmm FCam is cool.12:04
X-FadeThis cam app really lets you play with a lot of settings :)12:05
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: blessn900 is not worth it anyway12:11
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: No but FCam is the real deal.12:12
DocScrutinizernever heard of12:12
X-FadeGuys from Stanford made it.12:12
DocScrutinizermhm. I found the pr1.2 genuine cam doing a really awesome job12:13
X-FadeJust got uploaded to extras-devel.12:13
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X-FadeThis one shows light graph, does hdr, burst photos etc etc.12:14
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jacekowskiany pics of that fcamera app?12:21
benno2Hi, I installed the maemo5 sdk (scratchbox etc) on an Ubuntu 8 box and followed all the docs. I start the maemo window manager with start, the desktop comes up but when opening a QDialog in my app (it has only an OK button) it does not come with the maemo style but looks like a button on the linux desktop.the fonts are too small too compared when running the code on the real device.that way it is hard to develop because I cannot always test on th12:21
benno2e device itself. is there a way to fix this to make the fonts on scratchbox and buttons look exactly as on the N900. thanks for infos!12:21
DocScrutinizerdamn nice to learn there are Nokia people still actively developing cool new stuff for maemo12:22 is probably what you need12:23
benno2amigadave, thanks alot works !! :)12:25
benno2DocScrutinizer, what new apps ? :)12:25
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benno2DocScrutinizer, cool :)12:33
jacekowskithat fcam thing isn't in repo12:35
X-Fadeit is, extras-devel.12:36
auenffcamera is in extras-devel, not fcam iirc12:37
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jacekowskiit's either different extras-devel12:37
X-Fadefcamera, yes. The lib is fcam, sorry.12:38
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benno2amigadave, the strange thing I am experiencing on Qt Maemo is: I am using QPlainTextEdit (read only mode) to show some help text and even force the scrollbar to be visible and set textedit->setProperty("FingerScrollable", true);  but even though the text is longer than what can be displayed on the QPlainTextEdit no scrollbar is showing up and there is no way to scroll it with the finger. on all other Qt platforms the code works (including symbian)12:40
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amigadavebenno2: i do not know how to fix that, but the guys on #qt-maemo might know12:42
benno2amigadave, thanks. will ask. it sounds like a bug to me, because I just followed the Qt docs.12:42
jacekowskideb fremantle free non-free12:43
jacekowskiand nothing there12:44
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jacekowskihmm, it's HAM searchfail12:45
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D-Iivil_WorkSomeone here who can tell me how to set QComboBoxes to show my chosen value as current active value with QT / C++?12:46
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D-Iivil_WorkI know I should use QComboBox::setCurrentText(), but I have no idea how to do it in practise.12:51
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I don't get it how download statistics is meant to be read13:11
DocScrutinizerhow can there be falling curves in #dl/time graphs? how can number of downloads diminish? if that's not absolute total of dl, what else is it? Is there no dl-statistics for maemo-devel?13:11
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i would expect it's delta of downloads over time13:32
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fralsDocScrutinizer: download stats where? the ones on are #dl/per day13:40
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timeless_mbp2010-07-04 19:25:06.484 Nokia Device Browser[54465] [ASSERT] `[NSThread isMainThread]' -[MTMediaObject dealloc]:808 Method 'dealloc' of object <MTImageObject: 0x17368b20; storage=<MTMediaObjectLocalFileSystemStorage: 0x173272e0; name='20100504_002.jpg', filepath='/Users/timeless/Library/Caches/'>> must be called from the main thread13:54
timeless_mbpoh this makes me so ....13:54
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: "821" for Y axis, without any unit like "dl/day" or whatever, that doesn't make sense for a delta13:56
DocScrutinizeralso it's daft13:57
jacekowskinot really13:57
jacekowskiit tells you how popularity of program has changed13:57
jacekowskibut you can get that from total dl chart as well13:57
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: y-axis: Downloads per day13:57
jacekowskibesides, where do you see that ?13:57
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: That is what it says for me at least :)13:57
DocScrutinizeroooh per day. Nice it's written clearly there13:58
DocScrutinizeranyway thanks X-Fade13:58
jacekowskitbf: mac?13:58
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: mac?13:58
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: can you show me where do you see that chart anyways13:58
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Was worried I forgot something ;)13:58
jacekowskii was looking for it13:58
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: you see, i don't have that sort of problems on PC13:59
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: so the Y is actually moving window size 24h sigma?13:59
timeless_mbpis that because you don't use the sysinternals debugview application? :)14:00
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DocScrutinizerincredibly comlex, but easy if you once know about it. Just look at the absolute value every 24h14:00
timeless_mbphrm, just advertised ie8 to me14:00
timeless_mbpfwiw is DbgView14:01
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: maybe s/y-axis: Downloads per day/y-axis: Downloads during last 24h/14:04
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Well that is just not true :)14:04
DocScrutinizerso what else is it then?14:04
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: It shows you how many downloads there were on that day.14:04
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X-FadeDocScrutinizer: As you can see the date scale lags a day or two.14:05
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DocScrutinizerI can see that curve having continiously falling segments. That can't happen on a per-day graph14:06
X-FadeSure it can: day1: 10 downloads, day2: 3 downloads. Nothing more, nothing less.14:07
X-FadeDon't look into it too deeply ;)14:07
DocScrutinizera per-day graph is supposed to have discontinuities, on every window boundary aka date change14:07
X-FadeAh, you'd like to see a bar graph or something like that?14:08
DocScrutinizerso it's a 24h fixed window extrapolated to simulate a moving window14:08
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DocScrutinizerwith supporting points every 24h and interpolating in between14:09
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: yes, I'd prefer a graph with constant value for 24h, and discontinuities/jumps every 24h boundary. Or call it a bargraph14:15
DocScrutinizerI mean dl/day constantly dropping during a day confuses shit out of a dtasheets reading EE14:16
* frals agrees with DocScrutinizer 14:16
fralsbargraphs to the people!14:17
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DocScrutinizera simple question on same topic: is there a statistic for extras-devel pkgs as well? Seem unable to find it14:23
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* achipa wonders if there is an another WVGA armv7l Linux device with Flash 10.1, or did he just see an N914:24
TomaszDlbt, the package is ready14:25
Stskeepsachipa: hmm?14:25
DocScrutinizerlook at this for example:   I really don't get it what that means14:27
achipaStskeeps: generating some stats on a few web servers... I maintain and I usually generate separate stats for mobile devices (to gauge popularity, etc), and I have a non-Android 800x480 armv7l with Flash 10.1 in the 'unclassified' section14:27
tybolltfrals: I have too few bars on my N900 - can't nokia show me how to get more bars - like apple did to iphone 4? ;)14:27
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achipatybollt: we need a sking that changes the bar sizes14:28
infobotachipa meant: tybollt: we need a skin that changes the bar sizes14:28
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DocScrutinizertybollt: I'll do that for you. please move 100 bucks to my account :-P14:28
Stskeepsachipa: webos?14:28
tybolltDocScrutinizer: :-)14:28
MohammadAG51Stskeeps, webOS has flash 10.1?14:28
achipaMohammadAG51: has been announced for it, but not yet released14:29
MohammadAG51same as the N900 then?14:29
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: what's the sory with meego and GPS? (sorry I know not completely on topic here)14:29
DocScrutinizerstory even14:29
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: don't know yet14:30
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: I gather GPS needs a blob14:30
achipaMohammadAG51: nope, it has not even been announced for the N900 (nor MeeGo for that matter)14:30
Stskeepsafaik gps sits behind cellmo14:30
Stskeepsachipa: Movial will be doing ARM flash for meego, it seems like14:30
DocScrutinizerthat's the tale14:30
achipaStskeeps: i see, well, at least SOMEONE is working on it :)14:31
MohammadAG51hmm, can't that be backported?14:31
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achipaStskeeps: nope, I checked, it's not a Pre14:32
achipadoes anyone know the Flash version that comes with FroYo ?14:33
achipa(just to check if it is maybe a transplant hack)14:33
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DocScrutinizerthough actually GPS (N6200) module is a separate chip largely unrelated to cellmo, and only is connected to system via i2c to RAPUYAMA cellmo, so basically cellmo just handing thru I'd say14:33
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: ^^^14:33
adalali have a quick question, is there a program to connect to a pptp vpn on maemo 5?14:33
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i think the more interesting question is if the gps thing will be a blob plugin inside geoclue or some other framework..14:34
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: I guess that's mainly done to accomodate some weird GSM regulations demanding cellmo has direct access to GPS, for emergency signalling14:34
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: that's possible14:34
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: we haven't discussed gps yet since well, telephony and connectivity is higher priority14:34
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: could you ask Nokia to document bridging from cellmo interface to the GPS I2C ?14:35
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: as i said to luke earlier today, there used to be ISI headers talking about this stuff14:36
DocScrutinizerI'd not surprised to find N6200 even talking NMEA to RAPUYAMA cellmo14:36
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DocScrutinizeror at least being able to do so14:37
DocScrutinizerso if we could get a clean transparent bridging through rapuyama, we'd probably better off than with ISI14:37
* DocScrutinizer does a quick lokup what chip N6200 actually is14:38
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: could you ask me again in august when people are back? gps matter might be more than a few messages .. also, use case needed14:44
hnoAh, the GPS.14:44
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: sure. And for usecase: reate FOSS driver for xxxx(wait a minute for s/xxxx/<real GPS chipname>/)14:45
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alteregoDoes ofono support a serial bridge?14:46
alteregoI think I remember reading somewhere that there's an AT command to switch some kind of session/channel type thing.14:46
alteregoBut I don't recall14:46
DocScrutinizerMCS D761660CL14:47
DocScrutinizer=N6200 GPS chip14:47
DocScrutinizerTexas Instruments, NL5350, GPS - Single-Chip, A-GPS, NaviLink 5.0, MCS, D761660CL,14:51
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Stskeepssure that's it?14:53
Stskeepssame chip as in n8x014:53
Stskeepser, n81014:53
DocScrutinizerquite sure about  D761660CL,14:53
Stskeepswell, then help out with luke-jr's efforts :P14:55
DocScrutinizerthe rest is a quote from - I'd say those dudes know what they are talking about14:55
DocScrutinizerhelp out with luke-jr ? what efforts?14:55
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Stskeepshe spent a bunch of time reverse engineering n810's gpsdriver14:55
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DocScrutinizerooh I see14:55
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Stskeepsany news on the serial console work or charging?14:59
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: ping15:13
SpeedEvilluke-jr: re: gps packet how15:14
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SpeedEvilStskeeps: n810s gpsdriver work is mostly unimportant15:15
SpeedEvilStskeeps: simply as that driver is inside the cellmo.15:15
Stskeepsfair enough15:15
SpeedEvilOn n810  (and indeed neo1973 and some other devices) around 60MHZ CPU was used to do the required sums for that GPS. On the n900 - this does not happen15:16
SpeedEvilSo the cellmo is doing it15:16
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer Download statistics where?15:17
the_lordPforce, Hi, I've just downloaded your dropn900 package, thx15:18
the_lordPforce, just one observation, you should include python-qt4 in the deependencies15:18
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: [2010-07-21 13:35:49] <DocScrutinizer> Stskeeps: could you ask Nokia to document bridging from cellmo interface to the GPS I2C ?15:19
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ( DocScrutinizer Download statistics where?) that's been the question15:19
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frals replace fmms with packagename15:21
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SpeedEvilah - right15:23
MiXu-frals: For me that just shows code of presumably fetch.php :o15:23
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: those statstics are summations of the downloads from midnight to midnight15:23
SpeedEvilMiXu-: naah15:23
SpeedEvilMiXu-: those are unix timestamps of midnights, and download counts for that day15:24
MiXu-oh, I see15:24
MiXu-wohoo, my app has been downloaded 54 times15:24
SpeedEvilfor example15:25
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yep, as I said above: support point every 24h (actually looks like every 48h) and then just "drawing lines in between points" which are largely meanngless15:25
SpeedEvilthat shows a nice graph15:25
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MiXu-Me testing stuff represents probably at least 15 downloads ;)15:25
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ooh this URL looks decent15:25
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fralsbah, my numbers are low, need to push a new version!15:26
SpeedEvilIf you look closely, it does in fact have data every 24h15:26
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DocScrutinizerI still don't get it anyway. What is this telling me now?15:28
SpeedEvilDid you upload it yesterday?15:29
fralsfirst day you had 82 downloads, second 13715:29
SpeedEvilIt's telling you that...15:29
SpeedEvilyeah that15:29
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DocScrutinizerdoes that mean 2 days ago ( a period that has no predecessor so it isn't shown) it was ... err yep15:30
SpeedEvilso if you haven't pushed a new version, you probably have around 82+137 downloaders15:30
SpeedEvilminus ones that have redownloaded it for some reason15:30
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DocScrutinizerok, seems semi-clear now15:32
DocScrutinizerjust confusing like hell15:32
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DocScrutinizerI'd really prefer absolute since epoch dl-numbers, or at least bargraphs if you're actually showing 24h fixed window #dl15:34
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: look at that I really get confused what to read from it15:35
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DocScrutinizeryou don't tell me there's a 5 days period with absolutely linear decay of dl/day?15:36
DocScrutinizerhell that's screwed15:37
fralshe had 5 days of nearly the same dl/day, then a spike of 50015:37
SpeedEvilit's not integrating downloads/day15:37
SpeedEvilit's showing the raw figure15:38
DocScrutinizeroooh, looks different hat 60min ago15:38
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DocScrutinizeralso this one has two highlighted periods: jul10..12 and jul17..19. Is that just weekend or what?15:40
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lcukbastard dissing our n900 in comments on youtube @/15:41
DocScrutinizerfrals: an hour ago it was a different scale on Y, due to the spike at end missing. And it was a completely straight line going down from something like 83 to 60 over 5 days. You'd not expect 5 days in sequence are such exactly linear decay15:42
DocScrutinizermore looks like there were no data points during that period and line was drawn from jul12 to jul1715:43
DocScrutinizeror somesuch15:43
SpeedEvillook at the raw - php - data15:43
DocScrutinizernah, can't find that, just 28 lines of embedded js. nevermind. it's just confusing like hell, and largely meaningless or counter-intuitive15:45
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DocScrutinizerI wish I could find a decent datasheet about NL535015:49
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SpeedEvil$(function () {     var d =  [[1262901600000,134],[1262988000000,626],[1263074400000,807],[1263160800000,917],[1263247200000,1898],[1263333600000,1189],[1263420000000,1289],[1263506400000,330],[1263765600000,1322],[1263852000000,1382],[1263938400000,1126],[1264024800000,1954],[1264111200000,2272],[1264197600000,1658],[1264284000000,992],[1264370400000,624],[1264456800000,397],[1264543200000,2274],[1264629600000,2311],[1264716000000,965],[126480240000015:51
SpeedEvilthe pairs are time, and count.15:51
oKtosiTeHello. On my N900, if I pair with certain phones, they can browse my files. I want to do it the other way around, and browse another phone's files. Anyone?15:51
SpeedEviltime in seconds after epoch15:51
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: thanks :-)15:53
DocScrutinizernow if I'd bother that much and was really good in webshit, I could write my own CSS displaying bargraphs of a constant width of 24h for each tuple, instead of drawing a meaningless line between all the support points15:54
alteregooh, the pain15:56
SpeedEvilOr you just use gnuplot15:57
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SpeedEvilawk 'NR==1{split($7,a,"]");for(x=1;x in a;x++){split(a[x],b,"[,");print b[2],b[3]}}' or something15:59
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DocScrutinizerslightly more complex than  var plot = $.plot($("#placeholder"), [d], options);16:01
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DocScrutinizerthanks for keeping patient with me :-)16:02
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: ...16:13
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drizztbsdhi, where can I find the maemo kernel only?16:14
drizztbsdI loaded the meego kernel and I want to return to the maemo one16:15
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hnodrizztbsd: the power users kernel is in the maemo repositories.. not sure where the original kernel is.16:18
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* hno is also not sure why one woult want to run the original kernel instead of the power user variant..16:18
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drizztbsdhno: because I don't care about the power kernel modifications?16:19
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alteregodrizztbsd: I unpacked mine from the fiasco image.16:22
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hnodrizztbsd: Some forum posts say "apt-get install --reinstall kernel kernel-flasher"16:23
hnowhich makes a bit of sense.16:23
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alteregohno: I think he's stuck on meego at the moment ...16:25
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DocScrutinizer(GPS NL5350)
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: ??16:27
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: wanna help with GPS?16:27
DocScrutinizerwanna exploit GPS, plus GPS in meego-N900 / SHR / free&open GPS in maemo...16:28
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alteregoIs that android gpsd open? :)16:31
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: get a fix and strace -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1|grep '| 000'16:31
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: o.O16:31
DocScrutinizeralterego: dunno16:32
DocScrutinizerjust found it and felt like sharing16:32
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: pastebin some output plz16:32
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alteregodid nothing for me luke-jr16:35
alteregoah no strace :)16:35
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crashanddieSpeedEvil: watch out with the heavy function dumps16:38
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: ?16:39
alteregoluke-jr: lots of output, same segment. is that what you're looking for?16:40
luke-jralterego: maybe16:40
alteregoluke-jr: do you want a couple of blocks?16:40
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: meh, TTFF = epoch16:40
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luke-jralterego: yeah16:41
luke-jralterego: specifically, I'm working with ones of length 0xcc16:41
alteregoall done on my N900 directly from bed :D16:42
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luke-jralterego: care to share lat/lon for reference? :P16:42
luke-jralterego: can you get any 0xcc-length ones?16:43
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: what?16:43
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: what's needed?16:43
alteregoluke-jr: 52.0818 0.0178916:43
alteregoluke-jr: how?16:43
luke-jralterego: 0xcc is a row labelled 000c0 with 8 + 4 columns16:44
luke-jrthe actual packets are variable length; I haven't identified what controls that aspect yet16:44
alteregoweird, it's not outputting 000c16:45
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luke-jrat all?16:45
alteregoThose blocks were direct copy paste.16:45
luke-jrmine tend to vary in length16:45
alteregoOh wait, okay16:45
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alteregoI'd imagne the longer ones are sat info that gets updated every 5 seconds rather than the positional data which is every second.16:48
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luke-jralterego: not likely16:49
luke-jrI get about 4 or 5 concurrent at times16:49
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alteregoYeah, noticed that tooo...16:51
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: still no fix :-(16:51
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alteregoluke-jr: reload that pastie and I added a 000c0 length one.16:52
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alteregoWould you prefer it if I just created a file and uploaded it? :)16:52
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: is there a nice way tot turn on gps?16:53
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: advanced geocaching tool thing locks GPS on16:55
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SpeedEvilThat would mean I need to go outside though...16:56
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SpeedEvilphone is outside, in greenhouse, with a clear view of the sky16:57
SpeedEvilI forgot to turn GPS on.16:57
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alteregoSpeedEvil: run:
DocScrutinizerblargh. had to close all apps using GPS, and restart gpsjinni -> fix after 30s16:59
alteregoIt just d#ispays GPS info, but it'll start the gps :)16:59
benno2question: I have 2 targets in scratchbox: armel and x86.I test the apps in the x86 targets because I can use pulseaudio etc. I installed subversion on the armel target and it works. but when I change to the x86 target I don't see subversion as installable package. any idea how to do it ?16:59
DocScrutinizerreally, seems if GPS doesn't manage to get a fix in less than 60s, it never recovers16:59
Macerwhat do you do to extract a rar with a password with unrar non-free?17:00
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Maceri thought it was -p17:00
Macerman page is lacking17:00
alteregoMacer: I thought it prompted...17:00
SpeedEvilalterego: that's a binary?17:00
Maceralterego: me too17:00
alteregoSpeedEvil: yeah, it's a Qt app I'm working on.17:00
Macerguess i will just write it off17:00
SpeedEvil./Columbus: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory17:02
SpeedEvil - prerequisites?17:02
alteregoHrm, I thought PR1.2 ...17:02
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: where at?17:03
alteregoIt'll be 1t mobility or location or something17:03
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alteregoThat's a pain.17:03
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: no 0xcc-length pkts in yours17:04
alteregoluke-jr: almost half a meg for you:
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: 49.45/11.0517:04
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: what do you need?17:04
DocScrutinizer0xcc length??17:05
Macergot it17:05
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: yeah, some packets are 0xcc bytes long17:05
Macerseems like it didnt want to extract over nfs for some reason17:05
alteregoluke-jr: I've had some go over OxDO17:05
DocScrutinizerso longer than normal17:05
Macerah well. whatever :)17:05
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: pretty normal for me17:05
* DocScrutinizer shrugs17:05
alteregoMacer: readonly fs? :P17:05
DocScrutinizertell me what exactly you want me to do17:06
alteregoluke-jr: if you'd like I could get my app to log all the gps info in a more user friendly manner and time stamp both. Might help you correlate?17:06
Maceralterego: no17:07
Macerchecked that ;)17:07
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luke-jralterego: maybe :)17:07
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: that strace cmd; find packets with 0xcc length :)17:07
alteregoluke-jr: did my previous dump help you at all? :)17:07
DocScrutinizerfind: pckets : file not found17:08
luke-jralterego: yes17:08
luke-jrI identified a couple of regions that change only when on the other side of the world17:08
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alteregoMaybe we could start a tmo campaign to get users to run this command and give you a larger dataset17:09
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luke-jr7, 20,21, 24,25, 32, 36, 40,41, 56, 6d, c4..cc17:09
luke-jronce I get a fix, I can probably turn some of those into "change over hours"17:10
luke-jrbut it's very cloudy and raining17:10
DocScrutinizerstrace -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1|grep -B 12 '| 000c' ??17:10
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: is it that what you need?17:10
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: no, I need the full packet, not just the last line17:11
DocScrutinizer-B 12 !!17:11
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: as a human you need to manually pick out ones with cc length17:11
DocScrutinizerno I won't17:11
luke-jrfine, jerk!17:11
luke-jron the brightside, kdebase 4.4 just finished installing on my N90017:12
DocScrutinizerdude, no luck on packets with a line starting "| 000c"17:12
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: could you please verify my above quoted cmd will yield what you need, please!17:14
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: as I told you, it won't.17:14
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luke-jrbecause when you *do* find a packet the correct length, I need *all* the lines, not just the one starting with 000c17:15
DocScrutinizer       -B NUM, --before-context=NUM17:15
DocScrutinizer              Print NUM lines of leading context before matching lines.  Places a line containing a group separator  (--)17:15
alteregoBecause you're greping for lines that have 000c17:15
alteregoOh, that might wolrk then :P17:15
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DocScrutinizerso again!!17:15
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: could you please verify my above quoted cmd will yield what you need, please!17:16
luke-jrmissed that17:16
alteregoI'll give it a go as I'm getting lots of c0.s17:17
DocScrutinizerstill no hit here17:17
luke-jrI'm only getting b* now; I suspect because no fix17:17
DocScrutinizerthat's why I ask for verification of syntax/semantics17:17
alteregoWorks for me :)17:18
luke-jrit's possible 3D fix is needed for cc length17:18
DocScrutinizerI have 3D17:18
alteregoSome are d0 though ...17:18
alteregoAnd they get truncated ..17:18
DocScrutinizeraltitude 335.50+/-4.5017:19
alteregoIs there anything that appears to increment (the time) ...17:19
DocScrutinizerNokia-N900-02-8:~# strace -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1|grep -B 1 '| 0001'17:20
DocScrutinizer | 00000  00 92 01 00 00 00 00 02  02 00 00 00 09 02 00 1c  ........ ........ |17:20
DocScrutinizer | 00010  23 29 d6 60 07 dc 98 fd  00 00 04 54 00 00 0e 69  #).`.... ...T...i |17:20
DocScrutinizer | 00000  00 92 01 00 00 00 00 02  04 00 00 00 09 03 00 10  ........ ........ |17:20
DocScrutinizerNokia-N900-02-8:~# strace -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1|grep -B 12 '| 000c'17:20
DocScrutinizerblargh bada17:20
alteregoyuk, did you have to do that :P17:21
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luke-jralterego: a number of areas seems to increment17:22
alteregoIs it true that 0x00 to 0x0f are static?17:22
luke-jralterego: except for that byte I mentioned earlier17:22
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: ok screwit - no 0xcc length backets here, actually nothing >= 000c017:23
luke-jrtwo viable time groups: ad,ae,af or bb,bc,bd17:23
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luke-jralterego: byte 7 is different between you and I17:23
alteregoI was thinking 0x1a - 0x1b17:24
DocScrutinizeris there anything else I can be on service for you, oh master17:24
luke-jr1a,1b are always 00 00 here17:24
alterego really? they're incrementing on mine ...17:24
luke-jrthe one you sent me has them 00 00 too17:25
alteregostrage, every now and again they reset to zero17:25
alteregoapparently randomly.17:25
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alteregoI'm going to write some scripts to do some analysis17:25
luke-jr5b seems to be a packet counter17:26
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DocScrutinizerk, obviously not17:26
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alteregoHave you managed to actually decode any meaning at all? :)17:26
luke-jr3c,3d make up your direction of motion in hundredths of a degree17:26
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luke-jraka 'track'17:27
alteregoWow, that's accurate ..17:27
luke-jr2e,2f is eph in cm17:27
alteregoDo you have a wiki page?17:27
alteregoWould be cool if we could colabborate ..17:27
alterego~collaborate ..17:27
alteregoOkay, this should be nicer17:30
alteregoGot that strace command pushing via netcat to a script I can edit on my laptop :)17:30
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alterego(using tee to save to file) :)17:30
DocScrutinizernetcat 1234 :-P17:31
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alteregoDocScrutinizer: what's that?17:31
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alteregoWow, the pain has actually gone from my mouth.17:31
alteregoAnd I don't feel dizzy anymore.17:32
alteregoStill a golf ball on my face though ..17:32
* DocScrutinizer fetching the putter17:32
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PhonicUKhey all17:34
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DocScrutinizeralterego: (wiki)17:36
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DocScrutinizer~hail SpeedEvil17:36
* infobot bows down to SpeedEvil and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"17:36
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: ?17:37
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alteregoluke-jr: nice :)17:39
alteregoluke-jr: When I sad 1a,1b I actually meant 18,19 ..17:40
jacekowskisomebody reversed gps?17:40
alteregoluke-jr: Seem to be both TS TS ..17:41
lcukwell, half of 4chan think the liqbase AR is fake, the other half want to screw some star trek babe.  on average i think its been taken quite well17:41
jacekowskilcuk: link17:41
alteregoI've got a friend who's a mod at 4chan ..17:41
lcuki got a google hit on it a bit ago,
SpeedEvilluke-jr: ok - running17:42
SpeedEvilluke-jr: what do you want run again?17:42
jacekowskilcuk: they will stalk you17:43
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jacekowskilcuk: like they did with boxxy17:43
jacekowskilcuk: and jessi slaughter17:43
lcukthe tv service?17:43
jacekowskilcuk: be prepared to take hundreds of pizzas17:43
jacekowskilcuk: and loads of spam17:43
jacekowskilcuk: you will have to move out of your house17:44
jacekowskilcuk: stop using all facebooklike apps17:44
luke-jralterego: 18,19 seem to always be unpredictably different for me17:44
jacekowskiand sites*17:44
TermanaI'm sorry, but are you newfags breaking rules 2 & 3?17:44
lcuknice to know jacekowski :S17:44
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: strace -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1|grep -B 12 '| 000c'17:44
jacekowskidon't mess witch 4chan17:44
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jacekowskior 4chan will mess with you17:44
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jacekowskihmm, they will mess with you regardless17:44
alteregoluke-jr: well, 18 seems to increment and 19 seems to be unpredictable, like miliseconds or something.17:45
jacekowskijust open liblocation17:45
jacekowskior location-daemon17:45
jacekowskiin disassembler17:45
luke-jrjacekowski: then I can't write my replacement17:45
luke-jrjacekowski: wanna make some asm observations for us? :P17:45
jacekowskiyou can17:45
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luke-jrno, that wouldn't be clean-room/legal17:45
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jacekowskigive me a second17:46
jacekowskii'll do it17:46
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luke-jrdon't paste anything, just observe and comment on it :P17:46
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TomaszDwhat are you guys doing?17:47
jacekowskiwhat's the name of binary that's doing that stuff?17:48
steinexwhen i connect to my phone via usb networking and want to do something unter /home/user/MyDocs i just get 'red-only filesystem'17:48
steinexhow to fix that?17:48
jacekowskii have it17:48
SpeedEvilah - ok - not quite17:49
SpeedEvilluke-jr: ok - first log uploaded to that file17:50
SpeedEvilIt will carry on updating every 10 mins17:50
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steinexread-only of course17:50
keriono green or blue?17:50
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SpeedEvilsteinex: what are you connecting it via/17:51
steinexSpeedEvil: usb networking (PC Suite Mode)17:52
steinexthen i ssh in from my linux box17:52
SpeedEvilsteinex: not mass storage?17:52
alteregoluke-jr: now tell me this doesn't increment:
steinexSpeedEvil: then it is definitely read-only, so no.17:52
alteregoThose are consecutive 0x10 lines17:52
SpeedEvilluke-jr: ah17:53
SpeedEvilluke-jr: would the corresponding gpx be useful17:53
jacekowskiany info on liblas?17:53
luke-jralterego: my definition of increment is strict :)17:53
luke-jrSpeedEvil: if you can get 1:1 mappings17:53
alteregoluke-jr: well, I think it's a time stamp :P17:54
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: otherwise, approximate coords would be handy17:54
SpeedEvil<trkpt lat="56.216719" lon="-3.112165">  <ele>107.5</ele>  <time>2010-07-21T14:39:35Z</time> <sat>9</sat>17:55
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jacekowskiso we've got no idea what liblas is doing?17:55
alteregoluke-jr: I've found an anomoly too ..17:55
jacekowskii know17:56
jacekowskiThere is a number of geospatial software packages that support read/write of ASPRS LAS Format17:56
alterego0x10 contained something completely random ..17:56
steinexdamn damn damn. i ssh into my n900, rm -rf /home/user/MyDocs/Musik/*17:58
steinexafter a few seconds at goes into read-only again and the n900 needs a reboot17:58
steinexi don't get it.17:58
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steinexextremely frustrating17:59
jacekowskiso going back to location-daemon18:00
jacekowskihow do you get coordintes from it18:00
alteregoluke-jr: I'm right: 18,19 is thousandths of seconds18:00
jacekowskivia dbus?18:00
jacekowskibut does it send them automaticaly18:00
GAN900Anybody have any experience with eCoach heartrate monitors?18:01
keriosteinex: run a fsck18:01
alteregoluke-jr: so, it is strict, it's strictly incrememnting by 1000 ever second :P18:02
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steinexkerio: this is the vfat partition...18:03
kerioyour point?18:03
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alteregoluke-jr: 16 is minutes I believe ..18:04
lcukjacekowski, the comments dont seem to be going off the mad side (people like it!), but ill try contacting the administrator if they get out of hand18:04
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* RST38h yawns18:05
RST38hhelo lcuk18:05
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luke-jralterego: I concur18:07
jacekowskilcuk: have you considered buying reinforced front doors?18:07
jacekowskilcuk: and maybe electric fence?18:07
alteregoluke-jr: not sure what 17 is, but 16 is clearly minutes18:07
Stskeepslike my polish apartment, heh18:08
steinexkerio: thanks.18:08
alteregoluke-jr: and 15 is UTC hours18:08
SpeedEvilluke-jr: alterego - and - corresponding log and gpx18:08
SpeedEvillog with strace -t -p $(pidof location-daemon) -e read=6 2>&1|awk '/^[0-9][0-9]:[0-9][0-9]/{t=$1;next}/^ |/{print t,$0}' >log18:08
alteregoCurrently for me it says 15:0818:08
jacekowski.text:0000A6C0 - that's where function processing that shit starts18:09
luke-jralterego: right18:09
alteregoWoo! I found a timestamp :D18:09
lcukjacekowski, you make it sound so pleasant18:09
SpeedEvilAnnoyingly the gpx has not updated yet18:09
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alteregoluke-jr: 0x10, 0x11 year18:10
steinexkerio: now rsync even works in mass storage note...18:10
alteregoluke-jr: I'm sure you can guess the rest18:10
alterego0x12 month18:11
alterego0x13 day :)18:11
SpeedEvilluke-jr: alterego - however - the above timestamp is right18:11
ieatlinti'm going to take a real shot in the dark here... but does anyone here have a squareup dongle and an n900 who wants to test something?18:11
luke-jrnow we can implement ntpd GPS support18:12
alteregoHey, It's my first go at decoding this :P18:13
alteregoSpeedEvil: sure, and what I'm saying directly corrosponds with your timestamp :P18:13
alteregoluke-jr: otoh, I don't actually know what I'm looking at. Where are these blocks of data actually coming from?18:14
luke-jralterego: the cellmo18:14
alteregoOh, nice.18:14
alteregoCan we get to it without location-daemon?18:14
alteregoluke-jr: I hope this contains some more detailed information that we get with liblocation ..18:15
alteregoAnd am I going to get arrested?18:15
luke-jror rather18:15
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luke-jrwe can get it w/o location-daemon I hope18:15
luke-jrbut probably no more details18:15
luke-jrI just want to get rid of location-daemon18:15
SpeedEvilOk - if anyonemight find it interesting - the corresponding gpx file has now updated18:16
alteregoluke-jr: sure, that'd be progress enough.18:16
SpeedEvil(the gpx logger only flushes caches every 64k)18:16
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povbotBug 5337: Ovi Maps gives up finding GPS lock too soon18:17
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* SpeedEvil loves the smell of expired certificates in the morning.18:17
lcuktheres a bug on there but no1 can get on to vote it up18:17
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GAN900It's not like b.m.o is going to get you anywhere productive anyway.18:20
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GAN900The unrenewed cert is just a subtle hint from Nokia.18:20
trip0uh oh18:20
Stskeepsor 'july'18:20
SpeedEvilluke-jr: alterego
SpeedEvilclear-gps-cache - may be interesting18:21
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alteregoSpeedEvil: what is it?18:21
alteregoAh, an ARM executable18:22
alteregoWhat's liblas again?18:23
SpeedEvilAh - excitement - live action video!18:24
SpeedEvilA life or death drama - when the bastard finally gets there18:25
luke-jr0x20 is almost certainly related to latitude18:26
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Stskeepsyou're actually disassembling the comm protocol to cellmo in this area? :P18:26
luke-jrjust inducing things from packet captures18:27
luke-jrlatitude / 360 * 256 = byte 0x2018:28
jacekowskinot really18:28
luke-jrfor all 3 cases I have18:28
jacekowskiit's floating point18:28
luke-jrf u jacekowski :P18:28
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alteregoNot sure how to decode floating point.18:29
alterego(in ruby)18:29
luke-jrjacekowski: ...18:29
luke-jrwe already determined 0x10 and the bytes following it are date and time18:30
jacekowskihmm, maybe it's different offset in code here18:30
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alteregoluke-jr: I did find that 0x10 occasionally gave me a completely random 16 bytes ..18:32
alteregoWell, probably not random obviously, but nonsensical as far as what I discovered as the datetime stamp.18:33
alteregoAh, just did it again.18:33
alteregoOh, this is interesting.18:33
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luke-jralterego: on a 0xcc length packet?18:35
slonopotamussomething's going on18:35
luke-jralterego: other lengths don't seem to have the same alignment at all18:35
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jacekowskido we know what's the 0x01?18:35
alteregoluke-jr: I'll let you know in a minute :P18:35
DocScrutinizerlcuk: LMAO @
lcukyes DocScrutinizer18:36
jacekowskithey are going to stalk him18:37
jacekowskilike they stalked boxxy and jessi slaughter18:37
DocScrutinizerlcuk: pkg comes with instructions about to place sme ceiling lamps or the like nearby?18:37
lcukwhy cant they just help me code it :P18:37
visz"its fake though?"18:37
lcukvisz, its not fake :(18:37
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lcuki explain it here:
DocScrutinizerlcuk: how good is that thing on Z axis?18:38
viszyeah, but it's so magical that people think it's fake18:39
lcukit can scale quite happily but my detection is pretty flatworld and expects the ratios of the triangle to not be too far off square18:39
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lcukvisz, most people dont think its fake, they do however think its related directly to the paper18:40
alteregoluke-jr: no, but there is something excemely interesting that happens ..18:40
slonopotamusluke-jr, jacekowski: what are you doing?18:40
achipawhat ? did PR1.3 get released ? TMO is load spiraling...18:40
luke-jrslonopotamus: mapping the phonet GPS protocol18:40
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alteregoluke-jr: the first 4 bytes are some kind of message header18:42
alteregoI've got a nice paste for you to check out.18:43
jacekowski0x01 is event id18:43
alteregoAh, that makes sense.18:44
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jacekowskiit can be either 1 or 5 or18:44
DocScrutinizeralterego: check back with NMEA18:45
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jacekowski0x0d - tracking ongoing18:45
DocScrutinizeralterego: I bet there are parallels18:45
alteregoCheck this out:
jacekowskiwell, 0x0d - tracking status18:45
alteregoStrange 4 byte packets :P18:45
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jacekowskiand 0x04 would be status in 0x0d packet18:46
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DocScrutinizeralterego: mode switch?18:46
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DocScrutinizerlike SI / SO?18:46
alteregoPossibly, don't really know.18:46
jacekowskiSI SO?18:47
alteregoActually, I think it's bad processing.18:47
DocScrutinizeraka shift-in shift-out18:47
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DocScrutinizercheck against NMEA18:48
alteregoAfter an 00 7d 01 01 the date stamp is F8cked18:48
DocScrutinizerwill give you ideas18:48
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jacekowskiwell, so tracking status message is 0x0d18:52
jacekowskiif you can catch it it would be nice18:52
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jacekowski0x82 - gps state18:53
alteregoAh, time is garbage when it doesn't have a lock18:53
jacekowskiis anybody making notes?18:54
alteregoGot a wikipage18:54
alteregoluke-jr: it's not time seconds and milliseconds, it's just milliseconds ..18:55
DocScrutinizeralterego: jacekowski: also inspiring:
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DocScrutinizersorry can't check here :-/18:57
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DocScrutinizerbut I know ublox is really good in documentation, and the protocol probably gives you some ideas what you're facing here18:58
DocScrutinizerUBX protocol18:58
alteregobloody chm :P18:58
DocScrutinizeryep :-S18:58
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DocScrutinizerseem to remember there's been some tool on linux to unpack or display it, but fail to find any19:00
luke-jralterego: it has seconds too19:00
luke-jrgtg bbl19:01
DocScrutinizersame here19:01
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alteregoluke-jr: where?19:02
luke-jr17000 ms = 17 seconds19:02
alteregoluke-jr: luke-jr yes19:02
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alteregobut that's not hte unit of mesasurement here.19:03
alteregoIt's in milliseconds.19:03
alteregoYou have to get seconds by dividing by 100019:03
luke-jrit's in milliseconds, but it contains seconds19:03
luke-jrthat's the point19:03
alteregoNo, seconds contain milliseconds :P19:03
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alteregoThose two bytes are clearly milliseconds.19:03
DocScrutinizerthere's also a field for elabsed leap-seconds :-P19:04
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DocScrutinizer12 iirc - nowadays19:04
alteregoOh yeah19:04
alteregoForgot about that.19:04
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DocScrutinizerand then we even got some geostationary sats to broadcast auxiliary info19:06
DocScrutinizernot many chipsets know about these or use them19:06
alteregoAren't those private19:06
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alteregoAnd probably millitary too :P19:06
DocScrutinizermaybe. I just heard about it, and wondered why most docs and howto never mention them19:07
PhonicUKhey all19:07
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slonopotamusalterego: "private" and "broadcast" do not work together well19:08
alteregoWell, I know some private institutions do differential GPS with 3rd party satellites.19:08
DocScrutinizercheckout u-blox. They are cool, they are Swiss, and they got uebercool whitepapers and docs19:08
alteregoslonopotamus: I guess not .. I suppose encryption is meaningless too ..19:08
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DocScrutinizeralterego: nope, those I heard of get even sat numbers in GPS, like SV 28..SV3419:09
DocScrutinizeror somesuch19:09
alteregoThen maybe we're not talking about the same thing :)19:10
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Khertanpls someone can try my repository ... for a reason that i didn't understand it s didn't work on my n90019:19
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KhertanW: GPG error: fremantle-1.2 Release: The following signatures were invalid: NODATA 1 NODATA 219:19
lcukKhertan, if its not working for you and its your repo, how the hell can others check it!19:19
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SpeedEvilI have in the past used two-line element sets from and xephem to generate nice alt/az/range/rangerate tables for my location.19:19
Khertanlcuk, check if it s work on their device19:20
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Khertanmine is so customized that some w should not appear on a real maemo dist19:20
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Khertanok someone confirm ... so ...19:20
KhertanANNOUNCE : First release of KhtEditor is available for Maemo : in my repository :
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lcukKhertan, so even if this works, vectormine will be the original version on maemo extras devel etc?19:24
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Khertanlcuk, i didn't care about maemo extras19:25
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lcukwell since most users dont gainroot to update19:26
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Khertanwhen Community OBS will be ready for Freemantle maybe ... but currently i didn't have any solution19:26
Khertanas they lock HAM ... it s clearly not my fault ...19:27
KhertanTo be honest we should start a quest to educate users to not use HAM.19:28
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Khertanbut it s a major lose of time19:28
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CorsacI love ham19:29
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Corsacthough I prefer bacon19:29
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ieatlintbacon is awesome19:30
derfI'm not sure if I trust the culinary opinion of someone who eats lint.19:30
keriopancetta > bacon19:31
GAN900Who eats lint?19:31
VenemoKhertan: HAM is open source19:31
derfGAN900: ieatlint, presumably.19:31
Corsacgood point19:32
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ieatlintderf: don't hate19:32
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kerioVenemo: then why does it sucks?19:33
KhertanVenemo, but you can't replace it ... so useless19:33
* ieatlint wonders if he can pay people to write code with bacon19:33
kerioi want to write bacon with code!19:34
kerio10 PRINT 'BACON'19:34
Venemokerio: because the silly people make their own app manager instead of contributing to HAM19:34
kerio20 GOTO 1019:34
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lcukkerio, Corsac
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keriowhy me?19:35
kj4rgs770Hey anybody can you help me? I want to put debian (easy debian/ deblet/ whatever) on my 770.19:35
keriooh, it's not related to liq19:35
kj4rgs770is it possible?19:35
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slonopotamuswow, bacon19:36
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Stskeepskj4rgs770: if it wasn't for the wifi breaking at later kernels, i would have suggested to port meego instead19:36
keriokj4rgs770: not you19:36
Stskeepskj4rgs770: but you're going to face quite an uphill battle :/19:36
trip0Stskeeps, is that why wifi is unstable on meego+n900?19:37
kj4rgs770Yeah i was wondedring if anybody had any pointers or instructions. i'm fairly new-ish to linux19:37
trip0i wonder how it would fair in the 35 kernel...19:37
Stskeepstrip0: wifi is actually stable on libiw and supplicant level, it's when connman gets involved..19:38
luke-jrhonestly, I never understood 77019:38
luke-jrwas it popular because of the cheaper price?19:38
trip0Stskeeps, oh... conn... man... :|19:38
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kj4rgs770luke-jr: yeah and it is just fun to work with19:39
Stskeepstrip0: connman and libdui is some of my favourite names in open source19:39
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slonopotamusluke-jr: it was?19:39
trip0Stskeeps, oh, the name is great19:39
luke-jrkj4rgs770: compared to the C760, which was like 5 years earlier, it sucked19:39
trip0libdui died though19:39
luke-jror C3200 even19:39
kj4rgs770luke-jr: never heard of the c76019:40
luke-jrC760 has *the* best handheld keyboard ever19:42
kj4rgs770Stskeeps: you were working on Deblet right? I have tried to use the deblet installer and it cant be installed because it cant find libssl 0.9.8 and debootstrap19:43
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Stskeepskj4rgs770: yeah, .. it's rather out of date and sites are dead19:43
slonopotamusluke-jr: what about psion?19:43
luke-jrslonopotamus: nfc, never owned one19:44
slonopotamusluke-jr: err... that's too big to be called handheld19:44
luke-jrslonopotamus: nonsense19:44
kj4rgs770Stskeeps: So the installer wont work?19:44
luke-jrslonopotamus: it fit comfortably in my pocket with a wifi CompactFlash sticking out for years19:44
Stskeepskj4rgs770: right19:44
slonopotamusluke-jr: big pocket, i guess :P19:44
luke-jrslonopotamus: it's no bigger than N81019:45
luke-jractually, *slightly* taller, and not as wide19:45
luke-jrabout 2x as thick19:45
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kj4rgs770Stskeeps: Well thanks anyway. Maybe i should upgrade to an n800/81019:45
luke-jrkj4rgs770: N8x0 is dead19:45
kj4rgs770luke-jr:Dead? how?19:46
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luke-jrkj4rgs770: Nokia won't support it nor provide the community with the specs required to support it19:46
luke-jrkj4rgs770: me and a few others are trying to port Linux to it, but some parts are just too closed...19:46
luke-jrspecifically the GPS and battery charger mainly19:47
kj4rgs770Port linux? like Easy Debian?19:47
luke-jrkj4rgs770: like Gentoo and MeeGo19:47
luke-jrbut AFAIK the same kernel should work for Debian19:47
kj4rgs770luke-jr: Oh. Whats MeeGo ive seen it mentioned a few times19:48
luke-jrkj4rgs770: MeeGo is what Nokia is replacing Maemo with19:48
luke-jrkj4rgs770: also MeeGo is what IBM or Intel is replacing Moblin with19:48
Corsaclcuk: niom niom niom19:48
alteregoI guess that was the big news ...19:48
luke-jralterego: but Nokia won't support MeeGo officially for N8x0 or even N90019:49
kj4rgs770 oh ok well thanks all i got to go19:49
luke-jralterego: so MeeGo for N8x0 is community effort19:49
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* slonopotamus thinks if nokia supported meego on n900, it would give them lots of karma19:49
Stskeepsthey kinda do though19:50
Stskeepsi mean, not phone calls support but..19:50
Stskeepsas in, support lines19:50
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slonopotamusStskeeps: "kinda"?19:51
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luke-jrStskeeps: they kinda do by paying your bills :p19:51
Stskeepsslonopotamus: well, money is being thrown after it, a team of people, kernel guys, licensing..19:51
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kerioharmattan will probably run the meego ui19:53
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trip0harmattan will probably run a meego ui19:53
keriotrip0: nitpicker19:54
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alteregoOkay, l20:02
alterego, liking this fcam ...20:02
alteregoWritten in Qt too .20:02
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alteregoThat's even cooler ..20:03
PhonicUKwhat is fcam?20:03
alteregoWas just announced on Nokia conversations ..20:03
luke-jralterego: what was your altitude?20:03
alteregoluke-jr: I'm rought 020:03
alterego~roughly 0 altitiude20:03
luke-jr0 is on water20:04
alteregoSea leve ..20:04
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alteregoYes, I know.20:04
alteregoCambridge, UK is roughly 0 altitude20:04
alteregoWe're on a bed of cley.20:04
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* alterego starts hacking a camera plugin.20:05
SpeedEvilcamera plugin?20:05
E0xyay a camera replace in the future20:05
alteregoThass what fcam is about ..20:05
alteregoThe image quality is good, and it has 4 photo burst mode ..20:05
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luke-jralterego: so not even as high as 70m?20:07
alteregoluke-jr: due to error, probably :P20:07
luke-jralterego: what does N900 report? -.-20:08
alteregoI'll do an average.20:08
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: how about yours?20:10
SpeedEvilThe dispersion is quite high20:10
SpeedEvilsee the GPX20:10
SpeedEvilis the position log - this goes with /log20:11
SpeedEvil105m I think20:11
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DassuHas somebody else noticed that the mediaplayer buffers several times eventhough the data rate is ~steady and the video lenght is known?20:14
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DassuIt seems like mediaplayer has constant buffer size and that isn't smart :(20:15
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: your log lacks accuracy info :P20:19
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SpeedEvilwhat do you want?20:20
trip0SpeedEvil wrote gpxlogger?20:21
SpeedEvilI did not20:22
SpeedEvilI have suggested that the author add a computed EPE - but he has not20:22
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SpeedEvilsplot "out.q" using 1:2:3:4 palette20:22
SpeedEvilusing gnuplot - with
SpeedEvilthis gives a nice 3d plot of x/y/z meters - with the colour representing the number of points within that quantisation block20:23
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SpeedEvil.5m voxels20:24
SpeedEvilThat is 2.5 days logging20:24
SpeedEvilI have more - but the battery in the device has died, and I will have to plug it in20:24
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luke-jrfcam just crashes on start here20:34
alteregoluke-jr: you need to restart the device20:34
luke-jrmaybe later20:34
alteregoFor some reason the drivers don't work until you restart the N90020:34
luke-jralterego: so what's N900 say your altitude is?20:34
alteregoI couldn't get a lock. I'm about to go outside so I'll let you know in a couple of minutes :P20:35
trip0the n900 doesn't like your attitude luke-jr20:35
SpeedEvil107.3 is the (averaged) altitude20:36
luke-jrI suspect 30..33 should have altitude, but I can't figure out how it's encoded20:36
SpeedEvilThere are various geoids.20:36
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SpeedEvilfor example20:37
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SpeedEvilAlso consider it might be feet or meters20:37
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alteregoluke-jr: about 23 meters is my altitude20:42
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DrGrovAnyone seen D-Iivil here today or yesterday?20:50
alteregowow, the HDR mode is really good in fc ...20:50
alteregofcam ...20:50
alteregoDrGrov: nope20:50
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TomaszDanyone has fcamera working with titan's kernel?20:55
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alteregoTomaszD: does it not?20:57
TomaszDit makes the default cam app fail and the fcamera is just grey where the picture should be20:57
TomaszDI did..20:58
TomaszDlet's give it one more chance..20:58
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alteregoHe must have done something different with omapfb, as that's how the viewfinder is displayed.21:00
alteregoI start fcam, then open lens. default camui doesn't do anything that way.21:00
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Venemohey alterego21:01
Venemocan I pm you?21:01
alteregoSure, go ahead21:01
alteregoYou know I don't mind :)21:01
alteregoAlso, fcamera has the "gesture" operated vbox thing I want ... :D21:02
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TomaszDnope, it still fails21:04
alteregogutted .. :/21:04
alteregoTomaszD: run it as root from a command prompt and tell me if it fails with OMAPFB stuff :)21:04
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TomaszDalterego, it can't find /dev/video021:06
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ppmanI messed up my phone's gps receiver somehow - is there anyway to use the n810 as a bluetooth external gps?21:06
alteregoTomaszD: quick fix .. Try: mknod /dev/video0 c 82 221:07
alteregoHrm, though that stuff should be created by udev ..21:09
alteregoMaybe there's something else wrong.21:09
jacekowskiudev probably failed21:09
jacekowskias ussual21:09
TomaszDalterego, now I get permission denied21:09
alteregoTomaszD: are you doing it as root?21:09
TomaszDI mean, it fails when I run fcamera as root, but says perm denied when as user21:09
TomaszDwhen I run as root the error message doesn't change21:10
alteregoTomaszD: oh sorry: chown /dev/video021:10
alteregoTomaszD: the device probably doesn't actually exist in the kernel then :/21:10
TomaszDyep, no change21:11
TomaszDtitan screwed up ;)21:11
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TomaszDoh well, let's remove the kernel...21:11
alteregoMight be the module isn't installed21:11
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TomaszDrestoring nokia kernel..21:12
alteregoTomaszD: could you do an lsmod and it for me :)21:12
TomaszDtoo late :)21:12
alteregoI'd rather see wassup :)21:12
alteregoGrr :P21:12
TomaszDI'll do it next time21:13
TomaszDyou can install the kernel-power package too you now ;)21:13
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pronto  is anyone able to get optoin 5 working ?21:14
alteregoTomaszD: no, then things will not work for me :P21:15
MiXu-_pronto: Joikuspot is so cheap that I couldn't bother with cli.21:15
TomaszDhow did they implement the gyro for the n900...21:15
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TomaszDalright, we're back in business21:16
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Tscheesyhi - where is Fennec storing Downloads? can't find it21:17
jacekowskiuse opera21:17
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TscheesyFirefox can sync to my Computer - Killer Feature ;)21:18
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E0xpronto: i was trying do something similar but using usb networking and don't work21:19
TomaszDman, fcam is great21:19
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E0xpronto: with the n900 connected to the internet ( gpsr0 up ) i can't ping from the pc to the n90021:19
alteregoTomaszD: it's cool isn't it :)21:20
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E0xpronto: in the end i use the n900 as modem , if you have network-manager is pretty easy21:20
alteregoI'm working on my own cam app now ... :D21:20
prontowell i lost my usb cable for the n900, so yeah21:20
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alteregopronto: pretty easy to tether via bluetooth, though not as quick.21:20
E0xpronto: you can try the mobilespot setup21:20
prontonetbook dosent have blutooth21:20
alteregoA netbook without bluetooth ... omfg21:20
alteregoWho would buy suych a useless pos :P21:21
prontoinfact the only thing i own that has bluethooth is my n900 :\21:21
TomaszDalterego, why am I getting 10.6mb "dng" files which are 640x480?21:21
prontodosent that need a custom kernel?21:21
prontoyeah id ont want to do that21:22
E0xneed kernel-power21:22
TomaszDkernel-power ain't dangerous, it even add an icon in the main menu to replace it with the stock Nokia kernel should you want to21:22
E0xpronto: well what happen with the option 5 ? what problems you  get ?21:22
E0xthe same that i ?21:22
TomaszDalterego, ?21:23
slonopotamuspronto: usb cable for n900 costs $321:23
prontomy netbook sees it, but wont connect21:23
E0xpronto: hmm21:23
prontoi also dont want to use usb, because the n900's usb port is damn weak21:23
prontodont trust it at all21:23
E0xpronto: maybe is your wifi driver21:23
E0xsome wifi driver reject ad-hoc21:23
slonopotamuspronto: it's covered by warranty (mine was fixed)21:23
prontoi'm using wext21:24
prontoslonopotamus: i alraedy had one n900 replaced because of the usb port :\21:24
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slonopotamuspronto: hehe21:24
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alteregoTomaszD: dunno, hang on~.21:26
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E0xpronto: try get connected to the ad-hoc connection with iwconfig21:27
E0x( command line )21:27
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TomaszDalterego, these are raw images, have no proper viewer in linux ;)21:27
E0xpronto: do the same in you laptop that machine B need do21:28
E0xbut change of course the value21:28
iPeter-why i get only black screen when i connect my n900 to tv? i hear sounds from tv but no video..21:29
alteregopronto: I plug/unplug my usb about 30 times a day and have no issues ...21:29
alteregoHad my N900 since mid febuary.21:29
SpeedEviliPeter-: Do you have AL/NTSC cselected right?21:29
prontoon my first n900 the usb port fell out :\21:29
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iPeter-SpeedEvil: yes, pal21:30
TomaszDcheck the cable connection iPeter-21:30
TomaszDyou might have hooked it up incorrectly21:30
TomaszDso you have one channel of audio mixed with the video21:30
iPeter-cable is connected right, in tv blue screen changes to black but no vid..21:31
iPeter-im 100% sure it was right..21:31
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TomaszDI'd still insist on checking for mixups21:32
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TomaszDotherwise I'm out of ideas21:32
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iPeter-it worked before i reflashed21:32
TomaszDdid you flash the emmc too?21:32
iPeter-yellow to yellow, white to white and red to red, i get audio from both speakers correctly, mut no vid.21:33
iPeter-TomaszD: nope21:33
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TomaszDI'd suggest running the back up application, then copying over the back from the phone to your pc, along with your files, then reflashing fiasco without reboot (no -R flag), then emmc (with reboot flag)21:34
iPeter-oh and ofc i installed nitdroid to my sd card..21:34
iPeter-sigh, id like to hear other options before that operation..21:35
TomaszDwell, I'm not sure how nitdroid affects maemo, does it replace the kernel?21:35
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TomaszD(I've no idea who would want android without google propriatary apps like market and gmail, it's totally useless without them, but anyway)21:36
iPeter-hmm, not sure. could you check..?21:36
iPeter-TomaszD: that appstore on it works perfectly..21:36
TomaszDso it's an illegal port21:36
TomaszDthey have no right to redistribute the proprietary applications21:37
TomaszDis it really the android market?21:37
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DocScrutinizeriPeter-: yellow and white may both be ambiguous21:38
iPeter-well i self havnt tested it put on changelog they said on works list: android market works perfectly..21:38
TomaszDanyway, the faq says you don't need to replace the stock kernel *anymore*, maybe you had an old version installed first?21:38
TomaszDwell if they aren't distributing the app itself then they are in the clear21:39
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iPeter-DocScrutinizer: yellow was in yellow and white in white :P i checked many times..21:39
DocScrutinizerso what?21:39
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TomaszDif he's getting stereo audio then there's nothing ambiguous21:40
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DocScrutinizerstill yellow on TV *might* mean left_audio, CVBS in, CVBS out, or even component21:40
iPeter-ambiguous, new word. what it does mean? lol21:40
iPeter-i think i didnt replace original kernel21:40
DocScrutinizer~dict ambiguous21:41
infobotDictionary 'ambiguous' (1 of 5): open to two or more interpretations; or of uncertain nature or significance; or (often) intended to mislead; "an equivocal statement"; "the polling had a complex and equivocal (or ambiguous) message for potential female candidates"; "the officer's equivocal behavior increased the victim's uneasiness"; "popularity is an equivocal crown"; "an equivocal response to an embarrassing question"  .21:41
TomaszDiPeter-, before you reflash again, check with a different tv, if it fails the same, you know it's the phone's fault21:41
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TomaszDor the cable21:41
* DocScrutinizer wonders if his advice is appreciated21:42
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iPeter-DocScrutinizer: but as i said before, it worked before reflash as it was. oh and on yellow place it got a "video" logo, on other two it got a note21:43
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E0xpronto: work ?21:44
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iPeter-umm im kinda sure its phones fault coz when i plug yellow one in tv, screens color changes from blue to black..21:44
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iPeter-DocScrutinizer: i have to check that word in dictionary :P21:45
prontoE0x: nope, having issues with setting it to ad-hoc21:45
TomaszDalterego, the raw viewer on the n900 can't handle the files21:45
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prontoE0x: just relized i forgot to put wlan0 down xD21:46
DocScrutinizeriPeter-: mhm, so that's quite funny as it means HSync and VSync seem to be correct21:48
prontoits unable to ping the phone x.x21:48
DocScrutinizeriPeter-: maybe open up camera lens slider to get sort of a 'webcam' on TV21:49
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E0xpronto: up it back with you finish the config21:49
E0xpronto: and you can ping from the phone to netbook ?21:50
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jacekowskiwindows netbook?21:50
DocScrutinizeriPeter-: also in settings->TV-out switch from PAT to NTSC, store, check, and switch back21:50
jacekowskii think windows is blocking icmp by default21:50
jacekowskibut that wouldn't be a problem21:51
jacekowskiPAL and NTSC are just colour systems21:51
DocScrutinizernope, but it might reset some things21:51
prontounable to ping21:51
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DocScrutinizeralso I heard of video codecs crashing, which will render HW in a limbo state and you need to hard switchdown and power up to reset. Happens on playback of nasty coded video media, so try with desktop, after fresh boot from abttery out21:53
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: I tried on it, and when hitting save, i get white lines for 1 sec to tv.. but i might have a solution.21:53
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: I have to try that battery out too, i left that cable at work place so.. err, cant test it out now.21:55
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DocScrutinizerwhich cable?21:55
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DocScrutinizerohh your white lines were a story from the past, I gather21:56
iPeter-Yeah, switching from PAL to NTSC and from NTSC -> PAL21:56
DocScrutinizerI see21:57
DocScrutinizerAIUI TV and LCD are using different framebufers, and there has to be some hardware that does constant copying from primary to TV buffer21:58
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DocScrutinizerif that HW isn't correctly set up, you'll probably see the effect you described. Correct Sync, occasional atrifacts on PAL/NTSC switching, but no content21:59
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iPeter-That just wonders me it worked earlier perfectly.22:00
iPeter-on that tv with same cable and same device.22:00
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DocScrutinizerwell, obviously something either in cable, or TV or device has changed somehow22:02
DocScrutinizeror in your way to operate it22:02
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iPeter-i think its device.. but i may have to select origianl kernel on boot, so that may be reason for black screen.22:08
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DocScrutinizerlol, yeah22:10
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DocScrutinizerN900 video isn't exactly a VESA card22:11
iPeter-Ok. But ill come to here cry if it doesnt work even on original kernel (im not sure was it original kernel when i tried out or not..)22:12
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alteregoIS this issue with the power kernel and TV output?22:13
DocScrutinizerI bet22:13
alteregoIt's probably related to the camera device not working either.22:13
luke-jrwait, fcam-drivers is kernel modules? :/22:14
alteregoluke-jr: low latency, they're FOSS ...22:14
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: wouldn't feel surprised22:14
luke-jrpronto: N900 by default blocks pings22:14
luke-jralterego: well, that explains why it doesn't work for me... :P22:14
luke-jralterego: I don't use stock kernel22:14
alteregoluke-jr: ah, that probably explains also why it wouldn't work for power kernel :)22:14
alteregoYeah :)22:14
alteregoWell, compile them yourself then :P22:15
luke-jrmine is 2.6.28-omap1-gcc44 :p22:15
alteregoHow's that working out for you? :P22:15
alteregoExcept you can't use fcam :P22:15
* DocScrutinizer shakes head and sighs22:15
prontowell even after setting wlan with iwconfig, after a few seconds it goes back to my normal access point :\  (on my laptop)22:15
luke-jralterego: right22:15
luke-jrmaybe I'll mess with it later...22:15
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: ?22:15
iPeter-alterego: Its nitdroids kernel..22:15
iPeter-Im not sure what kernel it actually is.. err. Not so hax0r with these stuff :D22:16
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: I don't have whatever weird GCC fork Maemo uses22:16
luke-jrand I needed kernel modules built22:16
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luke-jrso besides the 2-line fix for GCC 4.4, it's the same kernel just built with a diff compiler22:16
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DocScrutinizerooh, that's nasty then22:17
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alterego"A man walks into #maemo, he says, my franken-kamera isn't working" I say "That's what you get when you use silly custom kernels".22:17
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: why?22:17
luke-jralterego: if you don't want custom kernels, use WinMo22:18
alteregoluke-jr: oh, I do, but I wouldn't break ABI like you :P22:18
DocScrutinizerbut you'd probably need same kernel version string, or modprobe  --force-vermagic  --force-modversion22:18
luke-jralterego: you mean like GCC22:18
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: GCC 4.4 isn't ABI compatible with <4.422:19
TomaszDalterego, I'm using ImageConverte Plus 8.0 with wine1.2, works fine when converting dng files22:19
alteregoSure, but you're the one that uses a non maemo compiler :P22:19
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: why? because it's supposed to be abi compatible22:19
luke-jralterego: Maemo is the one using a non-standard compiler22:19
TomaszDalterego, but I'm getting a blue tint on all pictures, any hints?22:19
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DocScrutinizersee? that's nasty22:19
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: no, it isn't. it's well documented ABI breakage22:19
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DocScrutinizerthere's no non-nasty abi breakage22:19
alteregoluke-jr: get out of the bath? :P22:19
kerioi'm getting *really* crappy pictures from the front-facing camera22:19
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: ABI breaks for GCC 4.5 too, if you want hardfloat22:19
alteregoTomaszD: get out of the bath? :P22:20
luke-jrwhich I plan to do when GCC 4.5 works reliably22:20
alteregosorry luke-jr not meant for you :P22:20
kerioMirror doesn't seem to play with the colors to have a somewhat good picture22:20
TomaszDalterego, I don't want to!22:20
* DocScrutinizer feels depressed and heads out for a nice beer in the garden22:20
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TomaszDalterego, seriously, what do you do with your resulting dng files?22:20
TomaszDyou sounded like you did try fcamera22:21
DocScrutinizerhmm yummy, kerio :)22:21
alteregoTomaszD: I've just been looking at them in The GIMP22:21
alteregoTomaszD: I've just been playing with the app really, not too bothered with the actual images at the moment :P22:21
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keriohow do i control the media player from the shell?22:21
TomaszDuse dbus commands I guess22:22
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alteregokerio: dbus22:22
alteregokerio: the dbus API for MAFW is somewhere in the wiki22:22
keriorequest - a ncurses gui for the media player22:22
DocScrutinizer~jebbaDbus is
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer22:23
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alteregokerio: neat :)22:23
kerioso... i'm getting 2457B/s22:23
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TomaszDalterego, gimp doesn't read dng files22:24
TomaszDor do you have a plugin?22:24
alteregoTomaszD: does, just doesn't seem to get the full res ...22:24
keriogotta love crappy mobile connections22:24
TomaszDheh, it's just reading the preview jpg or whatever is in there22:24
alteregoOr is 10.5M normal for 640x480? :)22:24
keriothanks DocScrutinizer22:25
DocScrutinizerhmm yummy, kerio :)22:25
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kerio~docsnack add I will be your sex slave forever $USER22:26
DocScrutinizerI don't know what you are taling about22:26
keriowait, maybe it's a separate command altogheter22:26
kerio~docsnack-add yay thanks <nick>22:27
DocScrutinizerI don't know what you are taling about22:28
kerioyou know, repeating messages is only ok when the first had no errors22:28
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lpjhjdhso is anyone familiar with sb2?  I'm having some issues getting sbrsh setup, it isn't able to connect to the server22:29
iPeter-is it easy to create apps for maemo?22:33
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iPeter-To learn where i should start?22:33
ieatlintare you looking to use gtk or qt?22:34
iPeter-Hmm, dunno but i think QT, i dont know much (or anything) on creating apps..22:34
DocScrutinizeruse qt then22:36
luke-jriPeter-: grab Qt Creator22:36
ieatlintthen you want to seek out the nokia qt sdk22:36
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ieatlintwhich will include everything you need to make apps for the phone22:36
iPeter-As im newbie could i get direct link to get correct one..?22:36
ieatlint(in c++/qt)22:36
ieatlintnote that if you don't know c++ (or, perhaps c at a minimum), you'll want to do that first :P22:37
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DocScrutinizeror use pyqt22:38
iPeter-Why i didnt learn that language year back -.-22:38
ieatlintah, right, pyqt22:38
iPeter-Sounds easy and crap but linxx again? :D22:38
ieatlintgoogle for "pyqt maemo"22:39
DocScrutinizeror grab arbitrary package sourcode in python, from garage.maemo.org22:39
lcukDocScrutinizer, STILL22:39
DocScrutinizercan't take it any longer, sorry22:40
DocScrutinizerlame of laughing22:40
luke-jrieatlint: C/C++ are not prerequisites to Qt22:40
luke-jrQt applications are compatible with inline C/C++ code, but for the most part only the syntax is shared22:40
luke-jrand syntax is easy enough22:40
DocScrutinizerdunno, maybe it's normal those 4chan threads go on for weeks and months?22:41
* ieatlint senses a pedantic "well, technically..." discussion approaching22:41
luke-jrbasically, it's bad code if you use C/C++ within a Qt application22:41
iPeter-is Nokia QT SDK like umm..22:42
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: basically it's considered rude to tell a nob about the diferences between Qt and C++22:42
iPeter-virtual basic?22:42
iPeter-i mean VB program, easy 2 use22:42
luke-jriPeter-: VB is a bad joke, forget everything you learned with it22:43
ieatlintluke-jr: can you help me compile php-qt for the n900 so i can write all my apps with it?22:43
luke-jrieatlint: you don't want that22:43
luke-jrPHP is leaky22:43
iPeter-i didnt learn it. its crap. Id like to know qt and doing stuff to maemo etc, but dont know where to start..22:43
luke-jriPeter-: grab Qt Creator or the SDK22:44
TomaszDalterego, *sigh* in FCamera, swipe up to see the image viewer, you can "share" and then it's JPG ...22:44
luke-jrread the Qt docs22:44
ieatlinthow about perlqt? i hear perl is really versatile22:44
iPeter-qt createor?22:44
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luke-jrieatlint: that'd be fine if perlqt actually existed22:44
ieatlinthaha, dated 200322:44
luke-jrI mean a real perlqt22:45
TomaszDalterego, you can also swipe down for options22:45
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* lcuk superglues w00t_ back together22:45
iPeter-ffuu-, i readlly dont know what should i download now to start with QT22:46
luke-jriPeter-: we told you like 3 times22:46
iPeter-Yeah, but direct links would help me to get on feet.22:46
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: you grumpy pale ole hax0r, stop talking beginners into C++ with tonal meta-extensions, and get some real sex!22:47
luke-jryou mean would help you be lazy22:47
iPeter-im now installing Nokia Qt SDK, should i start with it or is there easier method?22:47
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: that isn't funny22:47
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DocScrutinizeractually it isn't22:48
iPeter-luke-jr: No. i just want to get the correct one..22:48
ieatlintqt can get you laid22:48
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DocScrutinizerI just thaought it sounds a little more nice this way, rather than STFU22:48
DocScrutinizeriPeter-: depends on your experience with programming22:49
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: None experience.22:50
iPeter-Or if you count PHP and HTML, a bit SQL22:50
DocScrutinizerthen probably Qt docs and environment are a bad way to start22:50
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iPeter-What would be better way then?22:50
ieatlinti'd recommend python22:50
ieatlintand a book22:50
ieatlintstart with some basic stuff with python itself, and then look at qt22:51
DocScrutinizerhmm, with PHP and SQL you should know the basics at least. I'd suggest you have a look into C++ and see if you like it, otherwise go for Python and on N900 pyQt22:51
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iPeter-hmm okay22:52
DocScrutinizerpython is relatively lightweight for a learning curve22:53
DocScrutinizeriPeter-: an easy start:
iPeter-Im not sure yet how this works, but if im learning C++ (im going to need that language in school etc later) can i direclty do it to n900, make noobapps or is it too hard for noob? like an application "Hello world"22:54
DocScrutinizerhello world app in Qt (which is based on C++ originally) can be found in Qt tutorials22:55
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: It would be nice if i would get link to Qt tut, then im going to be quiet for a while, prolly..22:56
DocScrutinizerQt is a set of toolbits originally designed for use on C++ engine. But other engines like python adopted it22:57
luke-jrgot speed from GPS packet22:57
luke-jrit's in centimeters per second :P22:57
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ieatlintwell, that explains why it got quiet23:00
keriohuh? i thought qt was a c/c++ lib23:01
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DocScrutinizerkerio: err, nobody except maybe luke-jr is stating anything different23:02
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kerioyeah, i was reading the scrollback23:02
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nextimekerio : many c/c++ libs have other language bindings23:02
keriobut they're not a language23:03
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nextimeof course not23:03
ieatlintqt is c++, the point i think he was trying to make is that you generally should only be using qt libs in a qt app23:03
luke-jrkerio: Qt is implemented in C++, just like C++ is implemented in C23:03
ieatlintie, not other libs23:03
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kerioby definition anything for C also works with python, with a *simple* wrapper23:03
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* DocScrutinizer throws a bag of Jolly Time popcorn into the microwave23:05
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ieatlintooh, popcorn23:05
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: What app i have to use where to write code (looking this pyqt tutorial23:05
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DocScrutinizeriPeter-: that's one of the nice things about python. It's a scripting language, means it's interpreted and the source is the executable23:06
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DocScrutinizerjust like a shellscript23:07
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iPeter-DocScrutinizer: So in windows i create new document and then run it it should work?23:08
DocScrutinizeriPeter-: yep, basically. Though on windoze I dunno23:08
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luke-jriPeter-: who uses Windows?23:09
iPeter-luke-jr: gamers :<23:09
DocScrutinizeriPeter-: on N900 open a xterm, type `python <enter>`23:09
luke-jrmaybe gamers who play crap games23:09
MohammadAG51consoles ftw23:09
luke-jrwhy isn't working?23:09
luke-jrMohammadAG51: Linux FTW23:09
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* Mousey games on linux23:10
MohammadAG51linux can't run games properly23:10
Mouseyruns Team Fortress 2 just fine23:10
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luke-jrbs MohammadAG5123:10
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MohammadAG51would rather use a console23:10
MohammadAG51even for FPSs23:10
* Mousey is done here23:10
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iPeter-DocScrutinizer: Any way to do this on windoze?23:11
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MohammadAG51lol Mousey23:12
DocScrutinizeriPeter-: sorry, I can't help with windoze. Haven't touched it since 10 years23:12
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luke-jrsame here23:12
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MohammadAG51got rid of my windows partition and got a used laptop for the family23:13
DocScrutinizeriPeter-: there's a thing called PuTTY on windows, you can use to ssh into your N90023:13
iPeter-Okay. I would use linux if it would run games better..23:13
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iPeter-DocScrutinizer: Yeah.23:13
DocScrutinizerfor writing python this should be just fine23:13
MohammadAG51get a console and game properly23:13
iPeter-Using putty tray atm.23:13
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MouseySteam is coming out for Linux in the fall23:14
Mouseytheres your "games better"23:14
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ieatlintarguing with open source advocates it like arguing with christians23:15
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Mouseynot true23:15
Mouseyi can prove there's open source software23:15
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dmj726_developen source or free software?23:16
iPeter-they have been "doing" steam for years to linux..23:17
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iPeter-ffuu- Did i install now correct python thing..23:17
iPeter-Traceback (most recent call last):23:17
iPeter-  File "C:\Users\Peter\Desktop\", line 6, in <module>23:17
iPeter-    from PyQt4 import QtGui23:17
iPeter-ImportError: No module named PyQt423:17
DocScrutinizerinstall pyqt4 :-P23:18
MohammadAGpyQt bindings?23:18
luke-jrMousey: and I can prove there's God. what's your point?23:18
Mouseycheck out the last sentence:
Mouseyluke-jr: hahaha23:19
TomaszDno, no, no, no. Don't start luke-jr :)23:19
Mouseyyou prove there's a god, i'll start going to church23:19
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dmj726_develwhere is the "Steam for Linux" news?23:20
Mouseydmj726_devel:, last sentence23:20
luke-jrMousey: unlikely, you'll probably just deny it and look the other way23:20
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luke-jrbut the logic still stands strong, despite any denial23:20
Mouseyi don't need logic to prove there's a linux23:20
Mouseyi just need a working computer23:21
luke-jrobservation is not proof23:21
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TomaszDoh boy23:21
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Mouseyi don't need weasel words to prove there's a linux. i can use empirical evidence23:21
TomaszDdon't take the bait23:22
TomaszDit's pointless23:22
DocScrutinizerSTFU :-(23:22
Mouseyi can use any number and manner of evidences to prove there's a linux. trying to prove there's a god is pointless.23:22
Mouseyk, i'm done23:22
* MohammadAG +1s DocScrutinizer 23:22
luke-jrI basically have everything but altitude now23:22
ieatlintyou people are too easy to rile up23:22
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TomaszDieatlint, we just try to kill any craziness before it even starts23:23
kerioFPSes on consoles...23:23
keriojust EW23:23
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Mouseykerio: here we go again23:23
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jacekowskii'mi'm seriously impressed23:23
ieatlintTomaszD: you were saying?23:23
jacekowskithey are building bridge over the road next to me23:24
TomaszDieatlint, that we get easily riled up, I'm just saying we kill the discussion before it escalates :)23:24
Mouseyto nowhere?23:24
jacekowskiand doing it overnight23:24
MohammadAGjacekowski, call the police?23:24
kerioMousey: yes, we go again, FPSes with a joystick are the spawn of satan23:24
jacekowskiand it took them 2 nights to do all formwork23:24
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dmj726_develactually a console could do fps gaming well if it supported keyboards and mice and multiple monitors23:24
jacekowskiand it's 2x2 lanes wide road23:24
keriowiimote+nunchuck is somewhat acceptable23:24
ieatlintjacekowski: you clearly aren't in the US then :P23:24
* Mousey tries to imagine consoles supporting 2x2 lane wide roads23:24
MohammadAGdmj726_devel, unreal tournament supports it :P23:24
keriobut it still *can't* beat mouse+keyboard23:24
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jacekowskiieatlint: why?23:25
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kerio2x2 lanes roads?23:25
* DocScrutinizer waves23:25
ieatlintbecause i've only seen a construction project go that fast once23:25
kerioit's *two* roads, one over another23:25
ieatlintand it was because they threw over $100m at it23:25
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jacekowskikerio: 2 lanes in each direction23:26
jacekowskikerio: and they are building 2 lanes wide bridge over it23:26
kerioless awesome23:26
jacekowskiand slip roads and all that stuff23:26
jacekowskibecause current one that's about one mile to the east23:26
jacekowskiisn't enough23:26
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luke-jrsomeone good with units help me out here :/23:27
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luke-jr649 ??? = 353.5 metres23:27
jacekowskiand well, that's only £10million project23:27
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luke-jr143 ??? = ~23 metres23:27
luke-jr308 ??? = 107.5 metres23:28
luke-jr??? are all the same unit23:28
luke-jrthis is the LAST piece to the GPS puzzle, I think23:28
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ieatlintuh, that can't be the same unit of measurement23:29
jacekowskiwell, it could23:29
kerioit can23:29
ieatlint143 / 23 == 6.2 while 6.2 * 107.5 == 666.523:29
jacekowskiif it would be like angular unit23:29
jacekowskithat's dependant longitude and latitude23:30
TomaszDI'd use luke-jr23:30
jacekowskiand height23:30
jacekowskithat's possible with gps23:30
kerioieatlint: lrn2math23:30
jacekowskibut very unlikely23:30
luke-jrTomaszD: ?23:30
TomaszDfor units23:30
ieatlintkerio: math is overrated23:30
jacekowskiit could be floating point stuff23:30
jacekowskiluke-jr: so we know all now?23:31
luke-jrieatlint: there could be a static offset too23:31
luke-jrjacekowski: except altitude :P23:31
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luke-jrjacekowski: and I haven't decoded other length packets yet23:31
keriohmm, can't be a unit23:31
luke-jrieatlint: think celcius vs fahrenheit23:31
luke-jr0 C is 32 F23:32
keriounless that ~23 is really, really ~23:32
luke-jrit is really ~23:32
luke-jr~23 is a human's word23:32
infobot...but 23 is already something else...23:32
luke-jruse 649=353.5 and 308=107.5 :)23:32
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infobot[42] the answer to life the universe and everything, see also,_the_universe,_and_everything23:32
infobotkerio: aw, gee23:32
derfluke-jr: The least squares minimizer is m = 0.663413*???-81.9182, but it's not a very good approximation.23:32
luke-jrderf: wtf does that mean?23:33
kerioassume y=ax+b, find a and b with three pairs of x and y23:33
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luke-jrkerio: yeah, so...23:34
kerioso it doesn't work23:34
derfThat gives you offsets of -4.86m, 10.05m, and 14.91m.23:34
derfErr, -10.05m, I meant.23:34
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derfGPS should be a little more accurate than that.23:35
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keriowhy don't we just ask nokia?23:35
lcuksme people say i use gps for mm accurate positioning23:35
TomaszDhey Nokia, we're reverse engineering your binary GPS blob, help us out23:36
TomaszDyeah, that will go well23:36
luke-jrkerio: Nokia has a history not helping23:36
ShadowJK10m accuracy sounds good for gps23:36
ShadowJKvery good23:36
luke-jrreminder: this is altitude23:37
ShadowJKsupernaturally good23:37
keriohuh... missing <sarcasm> tags?23:37
TomaszDno sarcasm, altitude measurement is notoriously bad with consumer gps23:38
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