IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-07-17

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jacekowskieveryone has died?00:04
jacekowskii need couple brave volunteers00:05
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Stskeepsfor?00:05
jacekowskipotentialy having to flash phone00:06
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Stskeepswould be better to explain :P i can always re-create my flash image, so00:06
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jacekowskihmm, nvm00:07
jacekowskiit's not compiling anyways00:07
jacekowskii was hoping to do very ugly hack to have self contained i2c module in one file00:08
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jacekowskikernel panic00:45
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steinexi'm unable to find erminig-ng in extras-devel....00:51
steinexanyone?00:51
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steinexis Erminig-NG = Erminig?00:55
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MohammadAGmost probably00:56
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Proteousmeat probably00:58
trip0chicken is likely01:01
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ham5when I plug in the usb the usb0 interface isent gettin setup automaticlly what do I need to do?01:07
ham5I have iface static in /etc/network/interfaces...01:07
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luke-jrham5: click "PC Suite Mode"?01:08
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ham5I can do it... I just need to 'ifconfig usb0 192.168.200.2 up' everytime I plug in the usb01:09
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kerioham5: pc-side?01:09
keriohuh01:09
kerioedit /etc/network/interfaces01:09
kerioand add ifup usb0 to... hmm01:10
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keriothere's some script that's executed every time you enter pc suite mode01:10
keriohold on01:10
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kerioham5: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking01:10
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luke-jrham5: you have ifplugd?01:12
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ham5thats a long ass line to set/resetthe connection manager01:12
ham5no luke01:12
kerioham5: that's to make maemo think that's connected01:12
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DocScrutinizeremergency recover charge mode does NOT work with 550mA fast charge, as bq24150 power on defaults to not enabling the OTG pin :-(((01:29
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DocScrutinizerthis means the whole 1707 autonomous fastcharger detection fu is completely worthless and N900 will recover_charge with 100mA, no matter what charger01:30
Macerer01:31
Macerhow long do you need to recover charge for?01:31
Macer:)01:31
DocScrutinizerwell, recover charging is timer limited to 32 minutes anyway01:31
DocScrutinizernow that pretty much explains why users have problems to resurrect a deep discharged battery.01:32
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: that would explain the 'my phone won't charge' reports we get.01:33
DocScrutinizeryep01:33
SpeedEvilHmm01:33
DocScrutinizerpoor nokia, they obviously also didn't check for this silicon bug in bq2415001:33
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DocScrutinizeror maybe it's just a bug in datasheet? :-D01:34
SpeedEvilDoes it do the right thing on boot?01:34
SpeedEvilAs it seems to not be rapidly switching on 500mA detection, and in several cases power-looping01:34
DocScrutinizer(bq24150.pdf p28, table 7 - for those who want to check)01:35
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: please rephrase01:35
SpeedEvilThis may be a clear bug - in that it's a difference from the L1/L2 manual01:36
SpeedEvilI mean - many users have reported that it will loop - start to boot, crash out due to low voltage, and repeat01:36
DocScrutinizerhmm, how's that related?01:36
jacekowskiwell, thing is that nolo doesn't shutdown on low voltage01:37
jacekowskiand bme doesn't shutdown on low voltage as well01:37
MohammadAGdsme shuts down the device afaik01:37
jacekowskiit requests shutdown from dsme01:37
jacekowskibut that's on timer01:38
jacekowskiso it would start to charge01:38
jacekowskiand cancel the timer01:38
MohammadAGyou can see it in framebuffer anyways01:38
DocScrutinizerwell, on a battery with a certain impedance, the device will cause bat voltage to drop under hard shutdown threshold defined in GAIA01:38
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DocScrutinizerwhen starting to draw current01:38
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DocScrutinizeryesyes, all very nice and interesting, but applies to fully booted system, not to emergency recover charging01:39
Maceri have had my battery completely die and be ok01:40
DocScrutinizerMacer: uhum. What's the precise meaning of that?01:40
Maceryou made it sound like the battery being completely drained will be difficult to recharge01:41
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, you get to emergency charging01:42
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: 32 minutes01:42
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: system boots01:42
DocScrutinizeryes, but only with 100mA01:42
DocScrutinizerso 50mAh might be really small charge to revive a drained cell01:42
jacekowskiwell, let me check01:42
Macer30 mins @ 100mA isnt enough huh?01:43
SpeedEvilThe other issue is that when it hits the charge threhod - will it always come up cleanly01:43
DocScrutinizerMacer: largely depends. you may draw a >100mAh from a cell from say 3V5 to 3V001:44
jacekowskihmm, nolo is charging as well01:44
MacerDocScrutinizer: i see. figured it would be enough to start fast charging01:44
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: for charging it's irrelevant if the CPU is running NOLO or linux. from a hw POV running NOLO means system has booted01:45
Macerby booting01:45
Macerat what point does the fast charging take over during the boot?01:45
DocScrutinizerprobably in NOLO, see jacekowski ^^01:45
jacekowskiyeah, but nolo starts charging like after 0.1 after cpu starts01:45
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DocScrutinizerstill it needs to crank up the whole system to do that01:46
jacekowskinah, CMT is dead01:46
jacekowskidisplay is dead01:46
DocScrutinizerso 0.1s is a loooong time for a weak cell01:46
Macerhaha01:46
Macerneeds to start fast charging 1 planck after poweron01:47
Macer:)01:47
DocScrutinizerand if cell is below system Vlow threshold, no linux nor NOLO will get loaded, the whole system will refuse to start01:47
ShadowJKMacer: It's pretty hard to get a "completely drained" battery in normal situations01:47
DocScrutinizernot even for a plank duration01:47
keriook, explain that to me... why doesn't the n900 have pure hardware charging, again?01:48
MacerDocScrutinizer: there is always option b. get a nokia external battery charger01:48
ShadowJKThe furthest I've managed has only required about 20 seconds of emergency charge before gaia booted the device01:48
Macerand dont completely drain your battery01:48
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: it actually is not as hard as you'd guess. There are several subsystems directly powered from Vbat, which might stay on and consuming when main system goes down ungracefully01:48
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: and it will stay in emergency charge mode01:49
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ShadowJKkerio, because typically you don't want hardware messing with the usb behind your back01:49
ShadowJKWhen the system is down, it's supposed to emergency charge entirely without software though, but as DocScrutinizer just discovered in the datasheet, the defaults are slooow :)01:50
kerioShadowJK: pure charging from the original nokia charger, the one with the shorted pins, at least01:50
jacekowskikerio: it's charging at 100mA01:50
kerioit could be charging at... 1100?01:51
Macermaybe they should have kept the old charging style01:51
Macer:)01:51
DocScrutinizerkerio: I just found it doesn't matter if original fastcharger or anything else01:51
jacekowskiMacer: they couldn't01:51
Macerjacekowski: why?01:51
DocScrutinizerif that's really a bug in hw and not in datasheet01:51
ShadowJKkerio, when you discharge the battery that low, it's not a good idea to try cram that much down it anyway..01:51
kerioDocScrutinizer: well, in recovery mode01:51
jacekowskiMacer: microusb charging01:51
jacekowskiMacer: all manufacturers agreed that they will use microusb for charging01:52
Macerjacekowski: they could have used both ;)01:52
jacekowskiekhm01:52
ShadowJKNokia E75 has both :)01:52
MacerShadowJK: ;)01:52
keriojacekowski: let's add two microusb ports01:52
ShadowJKAnd it has different hw for the microusb charging and for the 2mm charging..01:52
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: well, agreed is not exactly the word :-P01:53
ShadowJKTotally different behaviour..01:53
jacekowskicosts and space01:53
jacekowskimostly space01:53
Macerjacekowski: i would say mostly cost ;)01:53
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jacekowskisay whatever you want01:54
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jacekowskii'm not listening anyways01:54
Macerhaha01:54
Macerbusiness is business .. money talks01:54
ShadowJKSmartQ has pretty awesome circuit for charging.. but it also comes with a gigantic psu (current-wise) :P01:55
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DocScrutinizerwell, who's got a lab PSU to probe VBUS current, and would be willing to discharge his battery to <3V, then check how much N900 draws in recovery charging mode?01:55
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i can01:55
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: not today though01:55
keriowhy would the recovery charge only draw 100mA from usb but 500 from the fastcharger?01:55
jacekowskimonday01:55
DocScrutinizernp01:55
jacekowskimaybe tomorrow01:55
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: awesome01:56
jacekowskibut amount of current n900 sucked from power supply was quite amazing01:56
jacekowskii had to set current limiter to 1A01:56
DocScrutinizerwon't suffice01:56
jacekowskiwell, it was enough01:57
DocScrutinizeryou'll see burst of >2A01:57
DocScrutinizerworst case that is01:57
jacekowskiwell, 1A was enough to boot it01:57
ShadowJKSmartQ has a chip that disconnects battery and switches system to run directly form PSU, and connects battery to charger chip and charger chip is connected to PSU.. so the PSU is powering the system directly, without battery for load balancing.. The charger chip can run entirely autonomously, because it's effectively only connected to the battery and in full control of what happens :)01:57
DocScrutinizerfrom battery01:57
jacekowskismartq?01:57
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ShadowJKchinese tablets01:57
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jacekowskiand hmm, that the thing01:58
jacekowskisystem booted01:58
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jacekowskifrom power supply01:58
jacekowskiwith bsi disconnected01:58
DocScrutinizeris it a phone? if yes, how does it buffer above mentioned bursts?01:58
DocScrutinizerduh01:58
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, it's not a phone, but it sometimes gets bundled with usb 2g/3g dongles01:59
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: err, please rephrase01:59
jacekowskii had phone connected to power supply01:59
jacekowskijust positive and negative battery terminals01:59
jacekowskiand BSI left N/C01:59
luke-jrdoes N900 support GSM01:59
ShadowJKluke-jr, yes01:59
jacekowskiluke-jr: it's a tablet01:59
luke-jrerr.. the audio codec I mean...01:59
kerioluke-jr: for data?02:00
luke-jrfor SIP02:00
keriooh02:00
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DocScrutinizergood q, no idea02:00
luke-jrXR02:00
luke-jrXD*02:00
keriodunno vOv02:00
* ShadowJK tests whether he can hibernate, change bios settings, thaw02:00
jacekowskigoing back to bsi02:00
luke-jrI was having very very poor call quality the other day02:00
luke-jrwith 3/3.5 G02:00
jacekowskii had bsi disconnected and working system02:00
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DocScrutinizerhmm02:01
DocScrutinizerstrange02:01
jacekowskiso bme detects that battery is gone in some other way02:01
DocScrutinizerbme stopped?02:01
jacekowskior02:01
jacekowskihmm,02:01
jacekowskimaybe it compares bsi value02:01
jacekowskifrom startup to current one02:01
ShadowJKMy N810 boots without bsi too, but makes angry bing through speakers and pops up a dialog saying Not Charging :)02:01
DocScrutinizerprobably it detects bat gone only while charging02:01
DocScrutinizeras it'd be rather pointless when running from battery anyway :-P02:02
DocScrutinizerbut that indicates BSI is no temperature sensor or anything (except if it shorts to 0R on overtemp)02:03
* ShadowJK wonders if bq24150 retains settings down to 2.5V02:03
ShadowJKmaybe only battery removal kills fastcharge then02:03
MohammadAGjacekowski, you have a beagle don't you?02:03
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I'd say yes, but lemme check02:04
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jacekowskii have giant schnauzer02:04
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MohammadAGbeagleboard lol02:05
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: my idea of that is: you can not set anything in bq24150 registers that will survive a main system down, as watchdog is started on any I2C activity and expiring makes the chip do full reset02:05
ShadowJKbme has a habbit of putting it in charger disable, high z mode02:06
luke-jrI wish the battery log thing worked better02:07
* luke-jr blames Python02:07
jacekowskibme have some other nasty habits as well02:07
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jacekowskiMohammadAG: yeah, i have a beagleboardf02:09
MohammadAGjacekowski, is it worth it, need to dump scratchbox for native ARM compilation02:09
ShadowJKluke-jr, batterygraph?02:09
MohammadAGit seems to be the only option02:09
ShadowJKluke-jr, battery-eye?02:09
MohammadAGplus it has a few neat extras02:09
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jacekowskiit's slow02:09
jacekowskitoo slow for compilation02:10
MohammadAGeven the mX?02:10
luke-jrShadowJK: -eye02:10
jacekowskichromium compilation would take ages02:10
luke-jrShadowJK: it only updates visibly when the charge/discharge rate changes02:10
jacekowskii suppose qemu on fast computer would be faster02:10
luke-jrjacekowski: just distcc02:10
ShadowJKluke-jr, I didn't know it calculated rates :)02:11
jacekowskinvidia tegra02:11
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ShadowJKBut generally, when display is off system isn't updating the charge meter very often. Perhaps once every two hours. Only reliable way of getting a vaguely recent value is to have battery icon out of view, and then switch to desktop or something so that it becomes visible on the status area/systray again02:13
ShadowJKthis applies to the maemo charge meter only, of course02:13
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ham5netmon gives pretty good realtime battery stats02:14
luke-jrShadowJK: it moves the right side, but doesn't draw a line until I turn off charge or turn on charge02:14
ShadowJKOh I guess plugging and unplugging charge also updates :)02:15
ShadowJK(and if you accidentally trigger updates after charging, you can sometimes see the meter climbing several minutes after end of charge)02:16
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ShadowJKham5: netmon? eh02:16
DocScrutinizerdamn net outage02:16
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: netmon, great cmt diagnose tool02:17
ShadowJKwe can and know how to access the hw fuel gauge chip anyway, which updates most of its ~two dozen registers every 5 secs or better02:17
DocScrutinizermaybe really reads bat voltage from modem02:17
FIQ+02:17
ShadowJKI didn't know we had netmon on n90002:18
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DocScrutinizersince a week or two02:18
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DocScrutinizereven hildonized02:18
ShadowJKleaked or nokia?02:18
DocScrutinizerno real netmon02:19
DocScrutinizerjust the standard thing02:19
DocScrutinizervia cellmo02:19
ShadowJKstandard thing?02:19
DocScrutinizercellid, dBm02:19
DocScrutinizerMNC02:19
DocScrutinizersuch things02:19
ShadowJKno neughbour cells?02:19
DocScrutinizernope :-(02:20
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kerioit fails on GSM for me :(02:20
DocScrutinizerwfm02:21
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keriothat's why i said "for me"02:21
ShadowJKSo except for battery readings from cellmo side, there's no new info?02:22
ShadowJKNo 3g timers?02:22
DocScrutinizernope02:22
trumeeluke-jr: it support g72902:22
luke-jrtrumee: nothing else does02:22
DocScrutinizerno T3212, no C1/C2, no neighbours02:23
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trumeeluke-jr: hmm. my asterisk does. i have bought a license :)02:23
luke-jrtrumee: I don't use proprietary software.02:23
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trumeeluke-jr: there is a free implementation of g729. not sure whether it will be legal in your country02:23
DocScrutinizerk, back to bq24150 sysfs driver specs...02:24
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trumeeluke-jr: although g729 does eat up more cpu compared to pcmu/pcma on N90002:24
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trumeeluke-jr: http://groups.google.com/group/asterisk-g72902:26
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peter40any of you ever tried hacking one of those Nokia headsets you get with their phones?. They have a mic as well as an earphone and a small remote to play/skip tracks?..I want to know what happens when I press a button to play/skip track..what signal pases into the 3.5mm jack02:39
kerioi think it's standard02:40
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SpeedEvilhttp://pastebin.ca/1902110 peter4002:42
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anndy_hi everyone02:44
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MohammadAGdo freenode's servers run on iPhone 4s?03:09
MohammadAGsorry, couldn't resist03:09
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TermanaN900good morning03:13
pigeoniphone4 freenode servers, now with free case! ;)03:14
arachnistMohammadAG: i guess someone death-gripped them03:14
MohammadAGxD03:15
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DocScrutinizer(recover fast charge) same datasheet though tells explicitly >>(LOWV) the bq24150 resets all I2C registers with default values control through IC interface is lost (32 minute mode), the bq24150 resets all IC registers with default values and enable the charger with an input current limit dictated by the OTG pin voltage level until the host programs the I2C registers. During this period, the input current limit is 100 mA when the voltage03:23
DocScrutinizerlevel of OTG pin is low; while the input current limit is 500 mA when the voltage level of OTG pin is high.<<  Default value for OTG_ENable is to ignore OTG pin nevertheless. The datasheet is faulty and probably the OTG_EN bit is just incorrect03:23
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SpeedEvilI'm confused.03:27
SpeedEvilAre we saying that the datasheet is wrong, and nokia is right03:27
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SpeedEvilOr that the datasheet is wrong, and poor nokia was mislead.03:28
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SpeedEvilAnd hello raster!03:28
rasterMOOO!03:28
rasterMUHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA03:28
rasteri have internet!03:28
rasteroooh poobum03:28
Macerer03:28
rasteri suspect my router is hitting its limits03:28
rasteri hate it when that happens03:29
Maceryou have internet?03:29
rasteri do03:29
Macer:)03:29
rasterfinally03:29
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rasterjust moved into home03:29
rasterwell neew apartment03:29
Macerwere you in the middle of a jungle03:29
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I'm saying that datasheet is ambiguous and has both diametral different statements03:29
Macerah. ok03:29
rasterMacer: almost. i was moving between countries03:29
raster:)03:29
Macerouch03:29
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rasterwell03:29
SpeedEvilah03:29
rasterat least internet is decent03:29
Macerdoes the eu allow free flow of people?03:30
SpeedEvilMacer: yes03:30
SpeedEvilMacer: largely03:30
rastertho not as good as it should be03:30
SpeedEvilMacer: any citezen of the EU can live and work in any EU country - generally - with few exceptions.03:30
Macerah ok. so a german can move to another eu country03:30
SpeedEvilyes03:30
Macerah ok03:30
Macerwas curious03:30
raster89vs70m03:30
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* raster ponders why upstream is slower03:30
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rasterMacer: if you are a memebr of the original eu nations - u have full freedom of movement03:31
rasteras new members join03:31
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I'd just claim a switched 1 vs 0 is a typo, while inserting the above quoted explanation by mistake is highly unlikely03:31
rasterthey "gain rights" over time03:31
rasterso thier citizens at the start cant just move to any eu nation03:31
Maceroh ok. :)03:31
rasterbut older eu nations can freely move there03:31
Macersounds fair03:32
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rastereventually this "period" ends03:32
rasterand they have full freedom of movement03:32
rasterits to stop things03:32
rasterlike romania joining03:32
Macerhahahaha03:32
SpeedEvilAnd all the romanians decamping to france.03:32
Macerno gypsies huh?03:32
rasterthen all the romanians running off to .de/.fr/.uk etc. to get better paying jobs03:32
rasterand leaving romania empty03:32
rasterease the country in03:32
rasterbring up their wages, standard of living closer to the eu average03:33
rasterthat is part of the idea behind allowing the "original members" free flow into the new states03:33
rasterfor them to bring their money, businesses etc. to help the new members03:33
rasteretc.03:33
Macerdamn. is romania that bad? :)03:33
Macerheh03:33
rasterit's an example03:34
rasterdont take it all literally03:34
raster:)03:34
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Macersure sure ;)03:34
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ShadowJKthe development and wealth creation has worked very well for some new members :)03:35
Macerim sure it has03:35
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Macerconsidering that new members are probably dirt poor ;)03:35
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Macerdoes england still use gbp or are they going to convert to euroes?03:36
SpeedEvilGBP03:36
SpeedEvilEuro is looking a bit shaky ATM03:36
Macerisnt the gbp too? ;)03:36
SpeedEvilThere are no plans to switch to euro inthis parliament03:36
Macerheh03:37
SpeedEvilMacer: perhaps - but we don't have greece.03:37
rasterheheheheh03:37
Macerhahahaha03:37
Macercold blooded03:37
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SpeedEvilThe current 'government' is dead against euro.03:37
Macerwhat was the greek labor logo?03:37
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Macerrather die standing than die working?03:37
Macerah yes. the home of alexander the great.03:38
Macerif only he could see what he helped to create03:38
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SpeedEvilThe 'west' is going to be screwed in large ways if we don't _rapidly_ reduce our imports.03:38
SpeedEvilOf both fuel and materials.03:39
rasterliving off fat03:39
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Macergee SpeedEvil03:39
SpeedEvilAs well as purchased goods.03:39
Macerjust noticed?03:39
Macer:)03:39
SpeedEvilNaah03:39
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rasterSpeedEvil: if it wasnt for the germans... europe would be in deep poo03:39
SpeedEvilbeen going on about this for a decade03:39
DocScrutinizerrethink infinite growth paradigm03:39
MacerDocScrutinizer: hahahaha03:39
DocScrutinizerit's perverted03:39
SpeedEvilChina and india and ... are _rapidly_ going to upskill, and go upmarket03:39
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ShadowJKIt'd be interesting if Germany & co break away to make "northern euro" currency along with other exporting euro countries03:40
MacerSpeedEvil: because they have cheap labor03:40
SpeedEvilIf we're competing for them for nescessities at that time - heat and iron - we're screwed.03:40
Macerthere is always the unforseen variable03:40
Macersuch as a scientific breakthrough ;)03:41
SpeedEvilWhy I've advocated the UK needs to build more nuclear plants - grow the electricity sector some 20*, and put _all_ oil into road transport, with all of the fixed loads on nuclear.03:41
arachnisthttp://www.flickr.com/photos/23301604@N07/4764273405/03:41
SpeedEvilAnd massive energy efficiency programs.03:42
rasterSpeedEvil: i'd say that's sensible03:42
ShadowJKI have doubleglazing!03:42
ShadowJKIt was installed in 1870 :/03:42
rasterplaces like china, india and so on have massive govt projects to build infra.03:42
ShadowJKor thereabouts03:42
SpeedEvilIf you give people 'free' 10 grand energy efficiency upgrades of their houses - it pays - as a country - in relatively short amounts of time.03:42
rasterthe west is just wallowing along03:42
rasterpatching up shit that stops working03:42
rasterthats about it03:42
SpeedEvilAs you need to import less fuel/oil - and your economy needs to work less hard to export stuff to pay for that oil03:43
SpeedEvilthat sort of stuff03:43
rasterif all of europe went nuclear - it'd end up a big win in 30 years03:43
SpeedEvilyeah03:43
rasterthe west has lived mostly off marginal efficiency gains03:43
SpeedEvilAnd outsourcing03:43
ds3if all of europe went nuclear.... we'd have a huge sheet of glass :D03:43
rasterchina/india etc. can grow massive amounts as their current baseline is so low03:43
rasterwventually they will face the same problem as the "developed world"03:44
rasterbut... they will have 10x the people03:44
SpeedEvilAnd at that point - the global economy gets 'level'03:44
ShadowJKI think natural resources will run out before that point :P03:44
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Well... I'd call bullshit on that.03:44
rasterSpeedEvil:  south america, africa.03:44
rasterdont forget them03:44
raster:)03:44
rasterafrica will be the last to get their arse into gear03:44
rastersouth america has big possibilities03:45
rasterespecially brazil03:45
SpeedEvilShadowJK: You can't generalise from now past technology step-changes.03:45
SpeedEvilShadowJK: For example - with not _too_ much sacrifice - I can have all my entertainment and computing needs met by something costing say 300 quid, and using 40W of power.03:46
SpeedEvilShadowJK: If you were to try to predict how much energy that would consume based on its capabilities in 1940 - you just can't do it.03:46
ShadowJKWell, if only filling the needs was sufficient, but everyone is trying to keep up with the jones's, or however the expression goes :P03:47
SpeedEvilSure.03:47
SpeedEvilBut at some point stuff gets good enough that people don't care.03:47
SpeedEvilAnd that's the point you need to hit as a society to not have percieved depravation.03:48
SpeedEvilpriv03:48
SpeedEvilThere is also disruptive technology that does not use more power or materials to do something - but just does it differently.03:49
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SpeedEvilhttp://biteonit.com/2010/02/17/keeping-your-scouring-sponge-last-longer/03:49
SpeedEvilerr03:49
SpeedEvilhttp://www.skytran.net/phpsite/home/Home%20Intro.php03:49
SpeedEvilthe former isn't very disruptive03:50
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SpeedEvilBut the latter idea is basically ultralight 1 person monorail cars, running packet switched networks of people at high non-stop speeds.03:50
SpeedEvilWith a dense network on lightpole-like structures03:51
TermanaN900the first link is though. its disruptive to the scouring sponge industry03:51
SpeedEvilWell - yes.03:51
TermanaN900shame on you03:51
SpeedEvilThough my habit of simply throwing them in the washing machine is too.03:51
TermanaN900:p03:51
SpeedEvilWhich works well for me.03:51
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SpeedEvilOn anotehr topic.03:58
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SpeedEvilhttp://gadgetcrave.com/bullet-headphones-are-pretty-creepy/7529/03:58
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Macerhaha04:05
Macergold plated?04:05
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Arkenoithey could make them solid gold for that price04:07
SpeedEvilI have considered making a pair of headphones with a gold lead04:08
SpeedEvil.05mm or so gold wire isn't that expensive and has the benefit that it does not undergo work-hardening and fracturing04:09
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rdesfohello04:15
rdesfois there a way to get a full version of perl in meamo?04:16
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MohammadAGrdesfo, apt-get install perl04:25
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lcukSpeedEvil, disruptive tech alright - those damn sponges are evil04:42
SpeedEvil:)04:42
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FireFly|n900Hi. How come nokia-maps doesn't open a new window if I manually call it with the san04:44
FireFly|n900same parameters as specified in its desktop file*04:44
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FireFly|n900?04:44
lcukFireFly|n900, not sure, what command line is it expecting04:46
FireFly|n900Exec=/usr/bin/nokia-maps /usr/share/nokia-maps/html/index.html04:47
FireFly|n900Actually, it seems to be fully made in JavaScript04:47
FireFly|n900Which is what I find interesting04:47
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lcukhuh, cute FireFly|n900 - it thinks its running04:49
FireFly|n900Hm?04:50
FireFly|n900Hm04:50
lcukFireFly|n900, try starting it with osso dbus doofer perhaps04:50
lcukdont ask me how, its late i have toothache04:50
FireFly|n900All right :)04:51
FireFly|n900I should probably sleep anyway04:51
FireFly|n900Nighty04:52
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colliery_Hi05:01
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yigalDoes sygic maps obtained through Ovi Shop have a package name?  I want to remove it, but there's nothing I can apt-get remove.05:09
MohammadAGmobile-maps9 I think05:10
MohammadAGor similar05:10
yigalMohammadAG: of course, "mobile" should have searched, ty05:10
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ShadowJKapt-cache search sygic05:11
ShadowJKworked pretty good too05:11
yigalit's mobile-maps05:11
yigalShadowJK: you're right, I fail :(, thanks for humouring me05:12
yigalsudo apt-get remove `apt-cache sygic`, so good05:12
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yigaloops, to be a bit more precise sudo apt-get remove: `apt-cache sygic | sed 's/ - *//g'`05:26
yigal- the :05:26
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jaem'Evening08:29
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nextime'Morning :)08:37
* jaem is planning to get one of these: http://processors.wiki.ti.com/images/8/89/EZ430-Chronos.png08:39
jaemit's a devkit in a watch, with wireless, and all manner of fun!08:39
* nextime is fighting with a custom pic based circuit with a won't working triac08:40
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jaem:(08:45
jaemWhat sort of PIC?08:45
Ken-YoungWord of Warning - I just received a notice on my N900 that there was an update available for Angry Birds.   I foolishly installed it, and now I can't play the levels I purchased a few  weeks ago.   Only the free levels can be played after the update.08:47
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jaemWoohoo08:48
jaem:/08:48
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nextimejaem: pic18f67j6008:50
nextimeanyway, i'm starting to think that it is a broken triac08:51
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jaemnextime, Is that the one with Ethernet capabilities, or am I misremembering?08:52
jaemIt's been a while...08:52
nextimejaem : yep08:52
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nextimejaem : i'm developing a series of boards pic based with relays, triacs, rfid, and many other things08:52
nextimefor an home automation system08:53
nextimeand i don't use the common serial bus system08:53
nextimebut all is ethernet based08:53
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nextime( ethernet or wifi )08:54
nextimenow i'm working on the first "dimmer" prototype, with a triac to modulate the AC power, but the triac won't start08:55
nextimeand i'm starting to think that i'm so unlucky today to have a boken (new) triac on the prototype08:56
nextimeas the circuit seems to be correct at the oscilloscope, but i can't get any power in output on the high power line08:56
nextimeanyway, i'm a bit OT here :)08:57
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jaemnextime, meh... when it's dead on the channel, people usually do get OT.  If nobody cares, feel free. :)09:01
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* RST38h moos evilly09:03
* jaem tips RST38h over09:04
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iliusnew ubkeyboard seems doesnt support persian09:27
iliushow to install older version?09:27
RST38hnextime: isn't it expensive to build an ethernet interface into each board?09:28
ilius*ukeyboard09:32
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iliushttp://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/u/ukeyboard/09:32
iliuswhat version supports persian/arabic?09:33
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luke-jrGCC 4.4 takes forever to build on 330 MHz ARM (OMAP2, N810)09:39
kerioso... symbian 409:41
keriowtf, nokia09:41
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RST38hSymbian cannot be allowed to fail.09:47
RST38hToo many people are getting their salaries by working on it =)09:47
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keriothose people should really move to meego09:48
kerio;)09:48
luke-jrkerio: MeeGo isn't a phone platform09:48
luke-jrSymbian is Nokia's phone platform09:48
keriooh right, tablet09:49
kerionvm then09:49
kerio:D09:49
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RST38hMeego is a mobile computer platform, hehehehe09:49
keriosymbian4 looks quite tablet-y to me though09:50
RST38hWell, they are trying to copy whatever Maemo/Meego is doing, to show that they are no worse09:50
keriohey, wikipedia says that meego 1.1 will support aava and n900 with the handset ux09:52
kerionice09:52
RST38hIf wikipedia says so, it must be true...09:52
* RST38h cackles09:52
keriohey now, don't destroy all my hopes09:52
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Termana~flashing10:15
infobotsomebody said flashing was http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware10:15
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TermanaCOMBINED flashing images don't contain the MMC image do they?10:34
arachnisthttp://wstaw.org/m/2010/07/17/20100717_001.jpg <| need some ice?10:34
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MiXu-where are the packet data counters in n900?10:47
MiXu-I'm roaming and I received a note about having used 10MB in the network10:49
MiXu-but can't find the counter10:49
crashanddieMiXu-: you need to install one, don't you?10:50
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MiXu-oh, ok10:50
RST38h110:50
MiXu-will do, thanks :)10:50
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petterithere is always /proc/net/dev , but these counters reset only on reboot10:52
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crashanddiefor crying out loud, the American media landscape is so bloody lame10:56
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nextimeRST38h : no, it isn't expensive as common used home automation systems needs a mcu in every device, i add ethernet, yes, but i have 1 board every 12+12 devices :)11:00
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nextimeRST38h: at the end i can build an home automation system with a lot of more features that the ones you can find today on the market at about 1/3 of the price11:02
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nextimethe only bad side is that i need to have a structured data network cabling ( or to use wifi )11:03
crashanddienextime: what's the point, though?11:03
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nextimecrashanddie : sorry it was an answer to a question RST38h ask me about 2 hours ago11:04
nextime:)11:04
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crashanddienextime: if I understand it correctly, you're talking about domotics appliances (controlling your house with your computers)11:04
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nextimecrashanddie : something like this, yes11:04
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nextimecrashanddie : i'm working in developing some microchip PIC based boards for a domotic system11:05
crashanddieI mean, marketing has told me all about the green advantage, how it allows you to save power, have effective modeling of your house, and understand where you are losing power, and a friend of mine showed me how he played tetris with an old building, by lighting up rooms. But what's in between those, where's the benefit for me?11:05
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nextimecrashanddie : there are a lot of other things to be considered, like, just for few examples, you can control your home from remote ( have you closed the methane before to exit? there are lighting in the sky, have you close all the windows? ), alarm integrated system, you can answer to the citophone from remote, you can auto-dimm some things if you are close to the power limit consumption, and also safety things for old people, or videosurveillance/cit11:09
crashanddiewell, I can see how that can be interesting for a company, but hardly for consumers.11:10
nextimecrashanddie : also, you can have a button for a light do more than one function ( double click, long click ), and move button function from one to another button when you want if you need to11:10
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nextimecrashanddie : also, you can use your n900 amazin phone to open control all the functions of your home just from the web browser...11:11
nextime:D11:11
timrwi was able to ssh into my n900 from my machine running ubuntu lucid earlier,but now im unable to ping 192.168.2.1511:11
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timrwi have done rootsh ifup usb0 on my device11:11
timrwand also sudo ifup usb0 on my pc11:11
crashanddieI mean, unless we start thinking differently about power consumption, even the best of devices won't make us more economical. And if you live in a rough neighbourhood, slapping gadgets to doors and windows isn't going to change anything; if anything, it's just jailbait.11:11
timrwany way to fix this ?11:12
nextimecrashanddie : in my personal opinion, the "green" part is the less interesting11:12
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nextimeas the way to be green isn't to reduce consume11:12
nextimebut to get energy in a better way11:12
nextimeof course this is my personal opinion11:12
crashanddienextime: and with regards to forgetting the gas (by the way, no-one uses methane for heating/cooking), well, that's not a very interesting argument. I've lived in at least 5 houses where we used gas, and we always invested in devices that didn't need to be turned off for risk of leakage rather than having to look after it constantlu11:13
arachnisttimrw: i was never able to ping my n900 over usb0 or obtain/serve dhcp over that link, but normal tcp connections were fine11:13
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nextimecrashanddie : here everyone use methane for heating/cooking11:13
crashanddienextime: oh, indeed, my bad11:14
nextimecrashanddie : and even if you have good and safe gas device11:14
nextimeit is better to close the primary gas switch if you go out for days, as there are conducture that can have lose of gas11:15
odin_yes nextime, invent a reactor that can suck CO2 and Water and make combustible hydro-carbons11:15
nextimeodin_ : it isn't needed11:15
crashanddienextime: I remain unconvinced, but appreciate your enthusiasm11:15
nextimeodin_ : my house is 0 emission11:15
nextimebut i consume a LOT of energy11:15
crashanddieso you've got solar pannels and windmills all over the place?11:16
odin_nextime, well I suppose it depends what you classify as an emission!11:16
crashanddieodin_: he never farts :D11:16
nextimeodin_ : i have ~ 9KW of power with solar panels on the roof, and geothermic system for hot water11:16
odin_nextime, loud music and strange smells might count, ha ha11:16
nextimeso, all the energy i use at home is "green"11:16
crashanddienextime: why not use endothermic panels for water heating, too?11:17
nextimecrashanddie : i don't know what endothermic panels are11:17
nextimecrashanddie : they are solar thermic panels?11:17
crashanddieyes11:17
odin_nextime, green means that your net chemical change is zero sum, if its not then you are consuming and producing something, even if those somethings are better than what everyone else is doing, but good luck to your "green living"11:17
nextimecrashanddie : cause i don't have more space on the roof11:17
nextime:)11:17
crashanddieshame11:17
nextimeand cause geothermic work even on the night / in winter11:18
crashanddienextime: endothermic panels have a much better yield than anything photovoltaic at the moment11:18
nextimeso, it is more efficace11:18
nextimecrashanddie : yes, but for elecrticity i don't have an alternative to photovoltaic, for hot water i can use geothermic11:18
crashanddiewhere do you live?11:18
nextimecrashanddie : north italy11:19
odin_nextime, how much snow do you get in north italy ?  are in you in the alps ?11:19
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nextimeodin_ : close to the alps, about 40cm every winter11:19
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nextime-4/-8 degrees in winter, +32 in summer11:20
crashanddienextime: how many square meters of panels do you have on your house?11:20
nextimecrashanddie : 120mq11:20
crashanddiehow much did you invest?11:20
crashanddiepics?11:20
nextimecrashanddie : about 60000euro for photovoltaic, about 34000 euro for geothermic11:21
crashanddielmao11:21
crashanddie100 grand of power production?11:21
nextimecrashanddie : not yet online, but i will put a lot of photos soon11:21
crashanddieI call BS11:21
crashanddieYou have to be an idiot to put that much money into 1 house.11:21
nextimecrashanddie : we have economic convenience, i've invested 60000 euro for photovoltaic, but the governament assure me to pay about 120000 euros in 20 years cause i have those things11:22
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crashanddie(especially considering that 100 grand of power is an outragous amount of power). So you won't have a positive carbon footprint for the next 300 years.11:22
nextimecrashanddie : cause of incenptive for kioto agreement11:22
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crashanddieanyway, 'later11:23
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nextimecrashanddie : for the thrut, i don't pay anything, a bank give me all the money and i pay the bank with the first 10 years of incemptive, the latest 10 years i get money for me from the state11:24
nextime:D11:24
nextimeok, time to go out, i need to wash my car11:24
nextimebye11:24
odin_well I wish such green energy worked higher up in the alps just above 1500m nr Gyron Swisserland11:24
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jacekowskiwell, a lot can change and government can decide to don't give you anything11:26
jacekowskiand you will be left with a credit11:26
odin_yeah I see that risk too11:27
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smharusing N909, I am connected to my home network using wifi, but I can not ssh to any computer11:34
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jacekowskiwhat's the make and model of your router?11:34
smharit is a tilgin.11:36
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dr34msmhar try pinging your router and while it does the ping requests try ssh .. works for me because the connection is idle otherwise11:38
iliusi have modified /etc/fstab on my N900, but every time it boots up, my changes on fstab will be discard!!11:39
iliusit seems that it is autogenerated when booting11:39
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iliusbut not too smarty!11:40
iliusit does not detect format for internal memory and assumes vfat11:41
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timrwim unable to ping 192.168.2.15 from my machine running ubuntu lucid12:12
timrwi can ping 192.168.2.14 from an x-term on my phone12:12
timrwany way to resolve this ?12:12
timrwi was able to ping my phone earlier12:13
timrwfor some reason its not working now12:13
timrwwhat could be the problem ?12:13
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odin_so is the problem on the Maemo side or host side?12:16
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odin_althought this is not a host or ubuntu support channel, maybe if you could explain what is on what IP12:16
odin_and what pings work and what pings dont12:16
timrw192.168.2.15 is the phone and 192.168.2.14 is the pc12:16
timrwim able to ping 192.168.2.14 from my phone12:17
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timrwbut not the other way round12:17
odin_and there is only a switch between them ?  or a wlan or a router ?  does the router firewall the wlan in anyway ?12:17
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timrwthey are connected by a usb cable12:17
timrwi have done rootsh ifup usb0 on the phone12:18
timrwand sudo ifup usb0 on my pc12:18
crashanddieodin_: it's usbnet, no routing12:18
odin_for example commercial routers such as cisco would assign wlan a lower security status, which means you can't by default originate packets from a lower security interface (ie. the WLAN) to send to the higher security interface (the LAN) without a firewall rule to allow it12:18
crashanddietimrw: just reboot the phone12:18
crashanddietimrw: then do a ifup usb0 again12:18
timrwcrashanddie: k,ill try that12:18
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odin_does your Ubuntu connect directly to the internet and provide NAT for a LAN ?12:20
timrwi rebooted, and did rootsh ifup usb0 again, but still unable to ping 192.168.2.15 from my pc12:22
timrwif i do ifconfig on the phone,it shows usb0 as the interface12:22
odin_do you have any firewall rules on PC host in place ?  "iptables -L -nv" and "iptables -t nat -L -nv" will list12:22
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odin_maybe you need a generic "-i usb+" and/or "-o usb+" rule to pass data12:24
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timrwodin_: there is no firewall, as it was all working earlier, i was able to ping and also ssh into my phone12:24
timrwmy /etc/network/interfaces file : http://pastie.org/104838112:24
timrwthat is on my pc12:24
odin_thats a ubuntu config, no idea what it should look like myself12:25
MohammadAG51crashanddie, any news on neopwn?12:25
timrwi had followed the steps given on http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/QuickStartGuide#Enabling_USB_networking12:25
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timrw to enable usb networking12:25
MohammadAG51~usbnetworking12:26
MohammadAG51infobot, screw you12:26
timrwand it was working..but today morning i checked, i was unable to ping the phone12:26
* infobot asks you to bend over12:26
MohammadAG51o_O12:26
crashanddieMohammadAG51: nope12:26
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MohammadAG51crashanddie, hmm, vaporware?12:27
crashanddiestarting to look like it12:27
MohammadAG51timrw, http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking12:27
crashanddiethough sometimes I do have headers coming back from the website12:27
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MohammadAG51i get the title too12:27
crashanddieso I dunno12:27
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timrwMohammadAG51: i had followed those steps earlier and it was working12:28
timrwMohammadAG51: i had configured my /etc/network/interfaces file as given on that page12:29
timrwanything else that can be done ?12:29
MohammadAG51not sure, ISP using 192.168.2.15 so i can't test12:29
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timrw192.168.2.15 is the ip of the usb interface on my phone12:30
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MohammadAG51yeah, that's why it'd conflict12:32
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konttoriDocScrutinizer: I made a blog after creating a successful demo of the python web server + qt quick app case. http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2010/07/qml-photoviewer-demo-on-n900-with-data.html12:33
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crashanddieisn't a web server in python piss easy?12:34
timrwMohammadAG51: ifconfig on my pc : http://pastie.org/104838512:34
keriore:100k is too much for a house - er... why?12:34
keriocrashanddie: python -c "import SimpleHTTPServer as s; s.test()"12:35
timrwMohammadAG51: any conflict ?12:35
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crashanddiekerio: investing 100k worth of energy in a house? You can power said house for 300 years. And I doubt the equipment will last that long12:36
kerioyeah, but where that energy comes from?12:36
crashanddiewho cares?12:36
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kerioapparently, some people *do*12:37
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crashanddieI'm sorry, but the carbon footprint of building 100 grand worth of energy equipment is a lot worse than using the infrastructure that's already there12:37
crashanddieand especially italy, where nuclear power isn't unknown12:37
crashanddie(and even more so northern italy, that has direct pipes coming from france)12:38
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Venemohey everyone!12:39
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VenemoD-Iivil_Work: are you here?12:39
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crashanddiekerio: in other words: all the fake green idiots can kiss my white hairy ass. If you're going to be green, at least be logical about it. But allegedly blasting 100k worth of equipment for one single house is just plain stupid, obnoxious and ridiculous -- and against everything green, if I might add.12:40
konttoricrashanddie: yeah, it's piss easy. Which is why I did it. Binding it to tracker is also piss easy. Putting it to create atom feed from tracker contents is also easy. I don't have time for difficult problems.12:41
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crashanddiekonttori: sure12:41
crashanddiekerio: the guy was talking about domotics, then said he didn't care about the green benefits, and then started gloating about his green house12:42
crashanddiefirst he says he wants to create the cheapest alternative around, but then says he blasted 100k on it? Wait, what?12:42
crashanddieIf you blast 100k on solar panels, you don't really care about buying 10 $80 adapters, or paying $40 for them.12:42
kerioit's... his house12:43
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kerio100k is not that much12:43
crashanddieno it's not, he's a liar and a twat12:43
kerioand the state will pay for it, for the most part12:44
crashanddieyeah, so the other people are12:44
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crashanddieso I say fuck that12:44
crashanddieanyway, I'm done with this discussion12:44
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crashanddiekerio: France is going to vote its budget reform where they are pulling out of all the eco-friendly green funds and grants.12:45
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crashanddiewhich effectively means the trippling of the cost of a solar panel12:45
crashanddieit won't be tax deductible anymore, it'll be like buying anything else12:46
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keriotoo bad for them?12:46
crashanddiewell, I live there ;)12:46
crashanddieit also means that the solar industry will die pretty rapidly over here12:46
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crashanddieit just goes to show how important the government thinks it is12:47
keriowell, the government is always right, isn't it12:48
crashanddiefar from it, but this is one of the few sane decisions they've made in the past 20 years12:48
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crashanddieanyway, going to the beach12:49
crashanddie'later12:49
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konttorihttps://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/8515/nuvofre_1.10_all.deb  new versio of nuvofre in case somebody is interested.13:01
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kerionuvofre?13:02
konttoritheme13:03
konttoriblog post with screenshots now here http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2010/07/nuvofre-110.html13:04
konttoriafter switching to the theme, you need to restart device to get font colors right13:05
keriothat's a nice theme13:05
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* MohammadAG wonders how TV-out works13:11
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konttorikerio: thanks13:13
keriois there a way to disable the opening of the camera when you open the... camera?13:15
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MohammadAGkerio, yeah, break it13:19
MohammadAGworksforme13:19
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iliuskerio: thats my question too!13:32
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iliuskerio: for example when opening the camera cover to user flashlight (not to user camera!)13:33
ilius*to use13:33
TermanaN900use the not user :P13:34
TermanaN900nevermind, i was too slow13:35
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fluxor, when opening the camera for using with some other application than the builtin camera app..13:37
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ZuccaHi. Does there exists any program/app for Meamo5/N900 to preload maps? Looks like there is a some sort of cache in ~/.maps. So any nice way to manage that cache?13:40
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asj_Zucca: yes you can preload maps13:46
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Zuccailius: I think it should be like, you should be able to apply flashlight from menu, then if you open the camera lens cover it wouldn't laung camera app but flashlight app instead.13:46
Zucca*launch13:46
Zuccaasj_: How? Except just browsing maps with map app...13:47
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asj_Zucca: google it, shoujld pop up right at the top13:47
iliusZucca: i cant find flashlight in the app list13:48
iliusZucca: and when the cover is close, the flashlight option does not exist in battery/clock menu13:49
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Zuccailius: Hm then you have the different app than what I have. But anyways: What I meant is that it should work that way but it does not at he moment. I hope someone will update flashlight app to work that way. :)13:50
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ZuccaAh. So you have the same app.13:50
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ZuccaBasically there shoud be a button in the menu that would change the app that will be launched on cover open.13:51
ZuccaChange from camera app to flashlight app in this case.13:52
MohammadAGcool http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=5863113:52
iliusZucca: i installed package "flashlight" from application manager, but did not added to the "More" in applications13:52
MohammadAGilius, it goes into the status bar, open camera lens, close cam app, open status bar and you'll find it13:52
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iliusMohammadAG: yes i do the same, but there should be an option that not to open camera when i open lens13:54
ZuccaMohammadAG: That's the way i work now. What we would like to see is the flashlight button apper in menu even if the cover is closed. Then if you have already pressed the flashlight button it would lauch flashlight app instead of camera app.13:54
Zucca*it works13:54
MohammadAGwell my camera doesn't start so I'm not too bothered about it :P13:54
truccctest13:54
ZuccaMohammadAG: :D13:55
iliusMohammadAG: but how? is there an option?13:55
iliusMohammadAG: :-D13:55
MohammadAGno, it says audio in use by another application if I try to start it13:55
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MohammadAGa reflash would fix it, but... cba13:55
iliusMohammadAG: lol13:55
MohammadAGtoo many mods to / to do it13:56
iliusMohammadAG: tow problems fix together13:56
ilius*two13:56
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MohammadAGwell, I'd have to restore mce, transitions (or what I left of those), boot menu entries for ubuntu, kernels, /root files, and worst of all, apps13:57
MohammadAGbbl13:57
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Zuccax0WvRmc That's nice. Although ctrl backspace does the same but it's not possible when keyboard is slided in.13:59
ZuccaOh man. Paste fail.13:59
Zuccahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuL-x0WvRmc There you go.13:59
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kpelhi guys. FYI it looks like the security certificate of bugs.maemo.org expired today.14:02
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ZuccaDo you guys know what's the voltage range that N900 can accept when charging?14:07
Stskeepsx-fade, ^^14:07
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ZuccaI had a though one day to build a battery pack containing six AA batteries (two in parallel, three in series) that would produce 4,5 as output voltage...14:09
Zucca*thought14:09
ZuccaDamn typos.14:10
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kpelZucca: do you want the pack so that you cancharge the original battery?14:11
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Zuccakpel: Yes. Because changing N900 is pita and you'd have to turn off the device while changing it.14:12
Zucca+battery14:13
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kpelZucca: will the battery pack have enough capacity to fill the N900 battery?14:14
Zuccakpel: Easily.14:14
ZuccaAt least 4000mAh.14:14
ZuccaBut minus the energy consumed on charging process.14:15
ZuccaI just need to know what the voltage rande N900 accept the charging input.14:16
kpelinteresting. i don't know about the voltage though. Perhaps you could try with 4V first?14:17
Zuccaimpossible.14:18
ZuccaAA batteries have 1,5 voltage14:18
ZuccaCombining those cannot archieve 4 volts.14:18
ZuccaI've read that USB voltage is 4,5 to 5.14:18
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ZuccaBy the standard I mean. But I wonder if N900 has larger voltage range to accept.14:19
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kpelno idea. i only noticed that it takes much more time to charge the N900 from a USB port than from a charger connected to the mains14:22
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kpelthe current is probably higher in the mains case, i don't know about the voltage.14:22
ZuccaChager can give 1.2A while standard USB can give 0.5A.14:22
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ZuccaI've actually got alerts few times that USB port cannot give enough power for my N900 while I was doing someting with it (heavy apps running).14:24
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RZHow does one change language in Pdgin?14:31
RZ*Pidgin14:31
RZNaturally on maemo platform.14:32
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BCMMi installed a thing that fits in a floppy disk slot and provides a usb port (and some card readers), and that port won't charge the n90014:42
BCMM(which is stupid, because it really should just pass half of the USB header it connects to straight through to the port)14:42
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BCMManybody used a car charger that doesn't constantly work itself loose?14:45
kerioZucca: the voltage should be the USB one, but you need to short a couple of pins for the phone to accept the 1.1A, like the wallcharger14:45
kerioi'm not sure if you should do that, a pack of AA batteries being what it is, but still14:46
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DocScrutinizerZucca: Vbus as of bq24150 charger chip: 4.0V..? other components ?..5.5V15:00
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DocScrutinizerZucca: but Vbus needs to be >Vbat, so you'll need >4.3V to completely charge battery15:01
ZuccaSo it might so that when the batteries are about 50% full their voltage isn't enough anymore... :|15:03
DocScrutinizerZucca: but what means >>Because changing N900 is pita and you'd have to turn off the device while changing it.<<?? You do not have to switch off N900 to charge15:03
ZuccaTo change the internal battery...15:03
DocScrutinizer???15:04
ZuccaI explained it wrong :)15:04
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ZuccaTo change the N900 bateery you have to turn it off. Abd it's hard to open the back cover.15:05
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DocScrutinizeryou mean to charge the BL-5J in external charger you have to remove it from device? that's self evident15:05
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kerioyou don't need to turn it off actually :)a15:06
kerioer15:06
kerio:)15:06
DocScrutinizeryou might be interested in my posting: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=740422#post74042215:06
DocScrutinizerhit thanks button if you really are :-D15:07
kerioDocScrutinizer: huh... i didn't switch off the cellmo15:11
keriowhen i tried15:11
keriowith no battery15:11
DocScrutinizerkerio: modem does conume ~4..7mA while in standby, and an occasional up to >2A when cell handover, or T3212-timeout and re-registration happens15:12
DocScrutinizerso entirely up to your luck if it works or not15:13
kerioi see15:13
DocScrutinizersee prev posting of mine in same thread15:14
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DocScrutinizerkerio: of course also data transfer over GPRS will massively ramp up power consumption of modem15:15
kerioDocScrutinizer: hmm... if you shut down the modem, can you suspend to ram and just use the backup battery?15:16
DocScrutinizersimply spoken you don't want modem to start transmit while no battery15:16
DocScrutinizerkerio: backup battery is for RTC only, it can't be used for ram keep alive15:16
kerioaw15:16
kerio:(15:16
kerio(is there a way to properly turn off wifi? or you can just ignore it as long as there's no autoconnect?)15:18
RST38hhttp://www.observer.com/2010/wall-street/new-doom15:18
DocScrutinizerbut by method described in above linked thread you basically can power device over USB up to a consumed current of ~1200mA. That should even suffice for ~80% of modem TX events15:19
* RST38h guesses those "Jump, motherfuckers!" posters at Wall Street are starting to make some effect15:19
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DocScrutinizerkerio: though I also seen device 'die hard' on one of my experiments, really dramatic fade away of screen content and all :-P15:21
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lcukmorning #maemo \o15:29
Rabidusg mrn'n lcuk15:30
RST38hmoo to you too15:30
lcukheya RST38h \o Rabidus \o15:31
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lcukRST38h, anything interesting today?15:37
lcukis the weather still sweltering15:37
RST38hlcuk: same hellish weather15:38
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RST38hlcuk: just going through some news15:38
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RST38hYea, I know that one can't believe anything FOX says but sometimes it does deliver: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07/12/data-shows-pakistan-googling-pornographic-material/15:39
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iliushow to copy part of the text in the x terminal15:45
ilius?15:45
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jogaselect it?15:45
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joga(first press the arrow thingy)15:46
jogaunless you're inside screen or such, that doesn't scroll with touch15:46
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odin_in N900 you can mimic a mouse, by holding pen down off left side of screen, the while off screen, pen down, and drag onto screen and hold, a pointer will appear15:47
jogahmm, now that I tried it, I suppose the arrow appears only when the buffer is longer than one screenful, didn't notice that before15:47
jogaotherwise it just starts selecting15:47
joga(which is nice)15:47
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iliusjoga: oh thanks15:49
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iliusjoga: is there also a shortcut for copy?15:50
iliusjoga: Ctrl+C = cancel15:50
MohammadAG51doubtful15:51
MohammadAG51you could try ctrl shift c, but afaik that's for gnome-terminal15:51
joganah doesn't work15:51
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jogatried it15:51
jogaI guess there isn't by default15:51
odin_there is a maemo wiki entry somewhere for shortcuts15:51
jogahmm...is there a way to simulate a middle mouse click? ;)15:52
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zashdoes select+middle click work?15:52
jogahow do you middle click?15:52
iliuszash: connect a usb mouse??15:52
odin_right your left hand touch your nose and hold that touch, with the right hand click on the screen of the N90015:52
iliuszash: :-D15:53
odin_s/^right/with/15:53
odin_if you are left handed, be sure to setup your 3 button mouse preferences into left handed mode, so the middle button works correctly15:53
alteregoHeh15:53
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zashilius: bluetooth!15:54
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odin_in update PR1.4.20200401 we hope to have mouse button 4 support, this require the assistance of another person to activate the gesture15:55
jogaheh, how about this http://www.semicomplete.com/projects/xdotool/xdotool#mouse_commands15:55
jogaor something similar15:55
iliusodin_: does not work! or i dont understand!15:55
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jogamaybe you need to also hold your breath15:55
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iliusjoga: :-D15:56
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alteregoAre there any better dialers than wvdial?15:56
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odin_on a more serious note... alterego what context do you use/need a failer with N900 (other than GSM/PPP support) ?15:57
Venemohey guys15:57
odin_s/failer/dialer/15:57
infobotodin_ meant: on a more serious note... alterego what context do you use/need a dialer with N900 (other than GSM/PPP support) ?15:57
alteregoodin_: I'm trying to tehter my ubuntu laptop via bluetooth15:58
alteregoIdeally, I'd like it to integrate with network manager.15:58
Venemois it just me, or the bugs.maemo.org site throws a certificate error for everyone?15:58
alteregoBut I don't know how to get rfcomm devices to show up as mobile broadband connections ..15:58
odin_^^^ freud slip up ?15:58
odin_you want your phone to provide internet to your laptop ?15:59
alteregoYes, but via bluetooth15:59
alteregoI've got DUN on the N900 and I've got the appropriate rfcomm device setup.15:59
kerioinstall Bluetooth DUN15:59
keriooh15:59
keriook16:00
alteregoI just need a dialer.16:00
kerioheh16:00
alteregoThis is all laptop side :P16:00
keriowait, you don't have to dial16:00
jogaI always read DUN as DUH :)16:00
kerioyou need to enable data16:00
alteregoOh16:00
kerio:/16:00
alteregoHave you successfully done this then?16:00
keriono16:00
kerioi'd just use mobile hotspot16:01
keriowifi > bluetooth, speed-wise16:01
alteregoBecause I've always had to use a dialer like wvdial in the past with DUN ...16:01
alteregoI know16:01
odin_what sort of power / battery performance difference does BT/WLAN make ?16:01
alteregoThis is actually a test for me to setup something similar on my girlfriends laptop, and her N96 wont do wifi > internet16:02
kerioalterego: you can also use usb host networking16:02
alteregoI know, that's how I'm talking to you now kerio :P16:02
alteregoThis is a specific requirement.16:02
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alteregoI'm not asking how to get on the internet with my phone, I'm asking how to get on the internet with my phone via bluetooth in the nicest (most ubuntu) friendly way.16:03
alteregoI just want to know if it's possible to integrate rfcomm DUN into network manager ...16:03
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alteregoThink I might have found a solution ...16:05
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: have you figured how to disable that annoying blue-ind-LED activation in xchat?16:10
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: I installed new on PR1.2 device, copied over all the cnfig from .xchat2 from old device where xchat behaves, and I tried to switch off all faintly related sounding options in setup - no success :-( still fsckng blue indicator light on every highlight16:13
SWFusilly question here, how the hell do I type a pipe char on the n900?16:13
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kpelSwedeMike: shift and function key?16:14
kpelyou will see a tble of characters popping up16:14
alteregoSWFu: press the meta key and the sym key and it's in the vkb popup for extra characters16:14
alterego(meta == blue arrow) + (key above it with 'sym' written in blue)16:15
alteregosym for symbols :)16:15
SWFuAh ha! many thanks!16:15
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lcukdoes anyone know how big the inductive charging plates are16:17
parimhey guys whats the eaiest way to connect a apple wireless keyboard to a n900, i am  a maemo 5 newbie and is having trouble doing it16:17
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lcukparim, lucky you asked, im just putting batteries in mine now :p16:17
lcuki havent tried since my n81016:17
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lcukah16:18
lcuki may have a problem16:18
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lcukbollocks the battery holder coin twist opening is not opening o_O16:21
lcuki just bent a coin trying :S16:21
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* lcuk may have to plod back to apple store16:24
b-manyou bent the coin? LOL16:24
lcukyeah b-man :S16:25
lcukthe coinslot is well and truly stuck16:25
b-manhmm16:25
keriouse a bigass screwdriver16:25
lcuki dont have a big ass16:25
lcuki used a coin and pair of pliers16:26
lcukand the coin gaveway before the slot16:26
lcuki think batteries corroded :(16:26
parimlcuk that is really sad16:28
* SpeedEvil is thankfull he doesn't need an ass-screwdriver yet.16:28
* lcuk is too16:29
lcukthat really screws up my day i needed it for something too16:29
* lcuk gets wd40 and toolbox down16:29
parimlcuk, there is no option called wireless keyboard on the n900, this its the closest thing that i found that would make it work http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4184516:30
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SpeedEvilIs this a metal keyb?16:30
parimSpeedEvil: metal ???16:31
SpeedEvilI know apple make some metal keyboards16:32
SpeedEvilI was surprised that lcuk bent his wookie.16:33
lcukSpeedEvil, alu yeah16:33
SpeedEvilMake damn sure you're trying to open it in the right way16:33
SpeedEvilI'd get the manual personally16:34
SpeedEvilBTDT16:34
lcuki did the normal route first16:34
lcukie non power tool16:34
parimlcuk: you need to turn it anticlock wise16:34
parimto open16:34
lcukSpeedEvil, theres compression dints on the foot, i think it has been squashed16:35
lcukparim, lefty loosy i know16:35
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parimSpeedEvil: you mean even the keys are metal?16:35
SpeedEvilparim: dunno - I know the base is.16:36
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Termanalcuk, I suggest you get an electric drill and drill that mofu open. Better than going to the Apple store at least16:37
lcukits alu frame with a metal of some sort screw cap on the battery case16:37
lcukTermana, i might get a bumper for my keyboard tho16:37
SpeedEvillcuk: When faced with this sort of problem, I reach for hotmelt16:37
Termanalcuk, :P16:37
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SpeedEvillcuk: glue on a nice bit of metal that you can get a good grip on with mole-grips16:38
lcukill just pack it back up in its box and forget about it for today16:38
SpeedEvilA very thin film of hotmelt is actually reasonably strong in shear16:38
SpeedEvilfair enough16:38
lcukand when i next goto trafford centre ill take it with me16:38
* SpeedEvil sighs.16:38
SpeedEvilI need to similarly open a container to get out a battery.16:39
SpeedEvilThough in this case, it's a Renault Laguna.16:39
TermanaWe were hoping you would rip the shit out of that thing and stick a video on youtube16:39
TermanaNo fun16:39
SpeedEvil(That's sat idle for a year, and the battery has died, and the bonnet release does not now work)16:39
lcuk:P my videos show creating new things not destroying old stuff16:39
lcuki still now have problem of getting keyboard input into n900 in portrait mode16:40
SpeedEvillcuk: you can pull the bottom half of the n900 off, and duct-tape it on in portrait mode.16:40
SpeedEvilWould be cool if that actually worked.16:41
lcukand its for a code editor so i dont want to eat half the screen with a vkb16:41
SpeedEviltransparent keyb?16:41
lcukcould do but its not the intent16:41
SpeedEvilxstroke/16:41
lcuki like having a big window16:41
SpeedEvilI mean a transparent keyb overlaid over the code16:42
lcuki know but that doesnt let me do what i want16:42
lcuki cant kinetic and pan if theres keyboard buttons there16:42
SpeedEvilah16:42
SpeedEviland stroke recognising keyboards would be similar fail16:42
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/20100626_003.mp4  the book reader effect i want to see code inside16:43
SpeedEvilDasher would be I think the most thematically compatible for you.16:43
SpeedEvilFront-cam + eye-gaze recognition for 'user is looking at dasher area'16:43
lcuknot really, i used to use my n810 over vnc in portrait mode with keyboard16:43
lcukso i know the orientation works, and now i can render fullscreen portraity stuff i wanted to do a bit more on the code editor side16:44
SpeedEvilI suppose you could get used to one thumb in portrait16:44
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kpelactually I knew a guy who was doing research in interfaces that use eye-tracking. very interesting stuff.16:44
SpeedEvilthough you need L/R mode16:44
lcukpeople keep offering me hats with leds on16:45
SpeedEvillcuk: That's silly.16:45
lcuk( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjSrwpbxyAM )16:45
* SpeedEvil hands lcuk a hat with three tea-lights on.16:45
lcuknot really SpeedEvil based on that ^16:45
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lcuktealights would pose a health and safety risk i believe :P16:45
SpeedEvillcuk: yeah - the above is one app for centimetric accurate GPS16:46
lcukSpeedEvil, i keep pondering better than cm accurate: http://liqbase.net/20100715_005.mp416:47
lcukand it should really use the n900 that has gps and is shining light as base orientation for all other devices16:47
lcukso yeah it would work :p16:47
SpeedEvilNeeds better sensors.16:48
SpeedEvilyeah16:48
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alteregoThe N900 never ceases to amaze me.16:49
lcukalterego, indeed16:50
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GAN900alterego, ehehe.16:50
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GAN900Nor me, but perhaps said with a different tone. *eg*16:51
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lcukSpeedEvil, that liqmouse video is now uploaded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdVqdfFdL3Q17:03
SpeedEvilDamn.17:04
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SpeedEvilI should have taken a pic of the rat I caught the other dya17:04
lcuko_O17:04
SpeedEvilCaught in a bowl, and humanely released.17:04
SpeedEvil(with a brick)17:04
lcukSpeedEvil, http://www.armory.com/~moke/mouse.html17:05
lcukolder than most people on the internet but i was laughing my head off at it17:05
SpeedEvil:)17:06
SpeedEvilhttp://www.instructables.com/id/Mouse-Mouse!/17:07
SpeedEvilSeen that/17:07
* GAN900 wishes MicroB wouldn't pretend it saw you click the link.17:07
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lcuklol17:08
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alteregoWell, I just had my N900 tethered via USB and bluetooth to another machine.17:22
alterego:D17:22
alteregoAnd the N900 had it's own connection still working.17:22
prontokinky17:22
alteregoI find that quite amazing, especially in this day and age when you have to pay more money for the ability to do something similar with an iPhone17:22
prontoi dont17:23
prontonon-informed customers, great advertising, extremely controlling company17:23
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sp3000timeless_mbp: I had to tracker-processes --reset-hard yesterday :\17:24
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sp3000well, or, iow, "semi-blindly run a random command found on the intarwebs"17:25
sp3000an external card's contents weren't getting indexed, except for new stuff17:26
sp3000which is slightly suboptimal17:26
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alteregopronto Well, obviously that's Apple, but other companies don't have to adhere to their shit ...17:27
alteregoFor instance, I know AT&T are Apple's butt buddies, but why in gods name do Operators in my country (the UK) where they all have iPhones put up with that bs ..17:28
prontobut most customers dont know the differnce and will bbuy into that , hance more money for the company17:28
alteregoYeah, still, I don't like how providers are becoming Apple's b*tches17:29
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tobis87hi,17:31
tobis87is there a way to always let image-viewer sort by name? i tried to change /apps/osso/image-viewer/sort_type from 1 to 0 and 2, but that doesn't make a difference.17:31
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* slonopotamus doesn't get that "tethering" word. where you got it from?17:36
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DocScrutinizer~dict tethering17:41
infobotDictionary 'tethering' n. {Tethering}.] To confine, as an animal, with a long rope or chain, as for feeding within certain limits. [1913 Webster] And by a slender cord was tethered to a stone. --Wordsworth. [1913 Webster]17:41
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MohammadAGLOL17:42
Shapeshifter~more17:45
infobotit has been said that more is Displays the contents of the named files, one screenful at a time. Syntax: more (file1) (file2) ...(fileN). Where file1 through fileN are the files to display. Example: more papers/history-final displays the file papers/history-final.17:45
Shapeshifter...17:45
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alterego~less17:47
infobot. URL: http://www.flash.net/~marknu/less/ or more17:47
alterego404 ...17:47
MohammadAG~40417:48
infobotERROR: 404 answer not found17:48
MohammadAGlol17:48
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MohammadAGlots of duplicate or someone deathgripped the freenode server17:48
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MohammadAGsee the signal bars dropping?17:48
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lcuk\o crashanddie17:52
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keriohow do i make the camera-ui stfu on camera lid open17:52
smhargreetings17:52
kerioi use more the flashlight than the camers17:52
keriocamera17:52
alteregoHeh17:52
smharanyone tried gnumeric in N900 yet?17:52
kerioand... would the flashlight eventually destroy the flash?17:53
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MohammadAGkerio, make a daemon that would symlink the flashlight app to camera-ui when you open the lens17:54
MohammadAGand no, ask SpeedEvil17:54
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kerioSpeedEvil: *poke*17:54
lcukX-Fade, ping http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=755028#post75502817:54
GAN900kerio, no.17:56
GAN900kerio, unless your flashlight application ignores the warnings.17:56
kerioso the only danger would be to drain the battery?17:56
keriooh17:56
kerioi use... hmm...17:56
SpeedEvilNo - the flashlight LEDs ar enot at the flash intensity17:56
GAN900It has a couple different settings17:56
SpeedEvilthey are at 1/7th of peak current17:57
SpeedEvilwhich is specced as safe17:57
SpeedEvilI've also run them for 4 hours on battery17:57
lcukand there is also overheat protections too afaik17:57
GAN900The flashlight plugin I know of runs at the torch setting.17:57
kerioflashlight-applet17:57
SpeedEviland observed no decrease in light output over 4 hours measured by a light meter17:57
kerioSpeedEvil: nice17:57
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keriowhat if i want to blind a predator though? is there a way to set them to maximum?17:58
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alteregoHeh17:59
alteregoThe driver will only allow flash bursts of full intensity17:59
* RST38h will keep that in mind for the next time when he is alone in the forest at night17:59
alteregoI think the flashlight brightness is more than enough to scare the shit out of a peado though :P18:00
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MohammadAGI wonder if it can strobe...18:00
RST38hAnd rotate!18:00
alteregoProbably, though more likely to reduce life expectancy.18:01
kerionot that kind of predator18:01
kerioand you need chris hansen to do that18:01
Termanamaybe that an app idea. "Pedobear Catcher"18:01
Termanathat's*18:01
MohammadAGalterego, Symbian devices can do it18:02
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MohammadAGit's fun if you want to annoy someone18:02
GAN900kerio, a pistol would be more effective. :P18:02
kerioMohammadAG: apt-get install party-hard-applet18:02
MohammadAGyou know, return the favor18:02
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TermanaToo bad they aren't red and blue18:02
GAN900. . . or maybe you could carry around a WinMob device to scare them away18:03
TermanaPortable police light18:03
RST38hyou can always attach little colored overlays...18:03
lcukblue sweetie wrapper18:03
GAN900Gels18:03
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alteregoMohammadAG: annoy someone and cause them to hgave a seisure if they're epileptic18:04
TermanaI could set it on my dash and yell "nee naw nee naw" out my window18:04
Termana:P18:04
RST38halterego: That "if" makes the whole idea somewhat unreliable18:04
lcukTermana, you can just play mp3 sound, transmit over radio to your car stereo18:04
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alteregoThat "if" also makes "The Game" more fun.18:05
Termanalcuk, even better, transmit it to THEIR radio. "This is the police, we've taken over your radio"18:05
lcukoh you git18:05
lcuki just lost the game \@/18:05
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kerioTermana: yeah, that will work18:05
alterego:)18:05
lcukTermana, o_O18:05
kerioalthough, if you install jacekowski's fmtxd...18:05
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SpeedEvilalterego: however - you can flash for 0.5s every 0.6s - this will burn out the LEDs18:06
alteregoYeah, I was saying it would probably kill the flash eventually.18:06
kerioSpeedEvil: some safe driver18:06
kerio:/18:06
alteregoSemi-safe driver then :P18:07
RST38hyou can probably use the LEDs to transfer messages or software, wirelessly18:07
alteregoThat would be neat :)18:07
alteregoI'm suprised no one has made a morse encoder/decoder app with the flash :D18:07
lcukRST38h, sure but focusing on them from the other end would be more difficult18:07
lcukunless you were using 2 completely fixed channels18:07
RST38hlcuk: let us say you have got a dark room full of N900 users and you are shooting them with the camera18:08
kerioi still can't believe that the IR port has no receiver :(18:08
lcukin which case you would be better with a pair of woks and wifi18:08
lcukRST38h, yeah sure i understand the concept18:08
kerioRST38h: shoot cameras at them18:08
lcukits the detection i do with inverted ar :P18:08
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lcukfind bright spots and work with them18:08
lcukproblem is framerate18:09
lcuk25 bits of info per second max per pixel18:09
SpeedEvil2618:10
SpeedEvilerr18:11
SpeedEvil5018:11
SpeedEvilThe white and red LEDs canbe flashed independantly18:11
keriowe have a red LED?18:11
MohammadAGdoh18:11
kerio:o18:11
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MohammadAGhow often do you take videos?18:11
MohammadAGlol18:11
TermanaI'm not sure when Nokia were building the n900 they had any of THIS in mind :P18:11
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lcukTermana, community always comes up with more ideas than originally intended18:12
* RST38h has never taken a video with his n90018:12
ShadowJKkerio: calling it a "port" is a bit generous :) It's a hefty IR led you can turn on and off very fast :D18:12
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, hmm, on symbian you can flash it every 0.2s18:12
MohammadAGshould be taken down from the ovi store18:12
lcukie: if god meant for linux controlled toasters he would have added a keyboard18:12
MohammadAGimp18:12
MohammadAGimo even18:12
alteregoWhat's the command to show those desktop notifications on gnome?18:12
DocScrutinizerdamn, lost the thread18:13
MohammadAGwhat thread?18:13
kerioDocScrutinizer: you mean you lost the game18:13
DocScrutinizerflashing white LED? sounds fun18:13
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DocScrutinizerreading backscroll :-S18:14
kerioi never saw this red led btw18:14
DocScrutinizer[2010-07-17 17:11:44] <MohammadAG> how often do you take videos?18:14
SpeedEvilkerio: Take a video18:14
kerioShadowJK: and that's perfectly fine for qtirreco :D18:15
keriothe range sucks though18:15
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ShadowJKWell if qtirreco could adjust modulation up/down a bit to hit the right frequency the range would probably improve18:16
DocScrutinizerkerio: check lirc driver frequency settings. Odds are the carrier freq doesn't match your appliance's RX module18:16
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kerioSpeedEvil: i just did18:16
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DocScrutinizerso you seen the red LED on the device the guy in the mirror was holding?18:17
kerioDocScrutinizer: nope18:17
DocScrutinizerbtw there's even a second red LED18:17
lcukkerio, you have installed the applet doofer that stops it18:17
DocScrutinizerkerio: dude, your 'privacy' LED is broken :-o18:18
MohammadAGever since that app pops up when you touch the proximity sensor it's been very annoying18:18
DocScrutinizerwhut?18:19
MohammadAGlfocus18:19
keriolcuk: flashlight-applet blocks the red led? what? why?18:20
lcukkerio, i never said the flashlight-applet, i cant remember the name, but theres something to stop red light also18:21
keriooh18:21
kerioi hope it's not broken... :/18:21
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lcukhey raster \o18:23
Arkenoiseems that qtirreco and irreco work with lirc backend quite different way18:23
rasterlcuk: \(..)/18:23
Arkenoiand what annyoys me most is lack of diagnostics18:23
Arkenoisometimes one does work and another does not and vice versa18:23
Arkenoiand it is completely silent all the time18:24
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lcukhow fast does the IR pulse ?18:24
MohammadAG38MHz iirc?18:24
Termana100 lcuk's/s18:25
* Termana is not helpful :P18:25
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lcukok so even being able to see IR over the camera wouldnt help18:25
MohammadAGI could be (very) wrong though18:25
MohammadAGwell, I'm sure it pulses faster than the cam can record18:26
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SpeedEvilNot quite.18:26
SpeedEvilThe camera uses a technique called rolling shutter.18:26
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SpeedEvilIf you want 1/100th of the nominal sensitivity, you reset a line 1/100th of a frame before you read it out18:27
SpeedEvilThis means that a pulsing lightsource makes a 'zebra' pattern at 100*the framerate temporal resolution18:27
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: 32..46kHz18:36
DocScrutinizerusually 36 or 3818:36
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lcukDocScrutinizer, mmm18:37
lcukArkenoi, use another camera to confirm whether the device is pulsing correctly out of its IR18:37
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DocScrutinizerhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_IR#Technical_information18:38
DocScrutinizerlcuk: ^^^18:38
SpeedEvillcuk: or a mirror18:38
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lcukSpeedEvil, ? would a mirror show visible ir?18:39
keriowell, why not?18:40
lcukcos i cant see IR normally18:40
SpeedEvilNo.18:40
SpeedEvilBut thenormal camera can see IR18:40
kerioSpeedEvil: no IR filters on the n900? laaaaame18:40
lcukzing!18:40
SpeedEviland a conventional mirror will reflect near-IR quite well18:40
lcukand the light comes on18:40
* lcuk actually forgot about multitasking for a moment!18:40
SpeedEvilkerio: there may be filters - but to get all of the light is practically impossible18:41
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DocScrutinizer455 kHz carrier  :-O18:42
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: the directed radiation of IR-LED isn't in axis of the main cam though :-/18:43
lcukits enough to see if its on18:44
kerioi blame the fact that the IR led of the n900 is not powerful enough18:44
SpeedEvilmirror18:44
DocScrutinizerand probably it's hard to make camera-ui continue recording, while you click on a button in qtirreco18:44
lcukwe need MORE POWER!18:44
keriolet's overclock the IR led!18:45
kerio:D18:45
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: not in axis means you need at least 2 mirrors18:45
* lcuk calls tim the toolman taylor18:45
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: you need one bendy mirror18:45
SpeedEvilOr a powerful gravitational point-source.18:45
lcukDocScrutinizer, you can do it with one to view enough18:45
lcukyeah just fire the ir around the sun18:45
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keriolcuk: see, we need more power18:45
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lcukor a handy black hole18:46
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DocScrutinizerodds are the IR wavelength of the LED is wrong. If only we could get BOM from Nokia, so we knew what LED they actually used :-((18:50
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DocScrutinizerwith a prisma and a decent IR sensitive camera you could compare wavelength of N900 to that of your genuine remo18:52
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SpeedEvilOr a CD18:53
DocScrutinizerat least I can confirm it's not very near IR, as frequently found on e.g camera invisible lightup. I actually *see* these, while on N900 I don't see anything (though I *think* my left eyeball hurts a little now :-P )18:54
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: CD? just to tell "it ruined the cyano"?18:55
lcukDocScrutinizer, DO NOT LOOK INTO LASER WITH REMAINING EYE18:56
DocScrutinizeror what do you want to do with CD?18:56
DocScrutinizerdamn, actually I did18:56
DocScrutinizerthe laser hole is in my right eyeball18:56
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DocScrutinizers/hole/blind spot18:57
lcukDocScrutinizer, :(18:57
lcukhow powerful was it and how much do you regret that decision18:57
SpeedEvilCD is a diffraction grating18:57
DocScrutinizerreminds me to visit doctor evetually. Seems to start becomming a nuissance lately18:57
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DocScrutinizerafter ~20 years18:57
DocScrutinizer30?18:58
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I see18:58
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: actually a very good one18:58
DocScrutinizeryou just shouldn't use a CD-ROM them18:58
keriogood one what? i lost some messages18:58
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SpeedEvilTake a CD - arrange it so you're in a dark roomwith one CD-sized shaft of sunlight18:59
SpeedEvilreflect the sun off the CD18:59
SpeedEvilpretty radial rainbows.18:59
DocScrutinizernice prisma18:59
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DocScrutinizeryou would probably want to use a prisma nevertheless, as it is conveniently placed behind a paper with a slot, while CD is reflecting and thus a bit more complicated to set up the test bed on IR19:01
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DocScrutinizerhmpf, not exactly simple to find a good prisma19:04
lcukheh SpeedEvil, you said shaft19:04
DocScrutinizerin my kitchen :-P19:04
DocScrutinizerlcuk: is that XXX and triggers autokick?19:05
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keriothere's autokick on profanity?19:08
DocScrutinizer/kick kerio19:08
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DocScrutinizernope, on stupid questions :-P19:08
DocScrutinizerkerio: there's no autokick, just kidding19:09
keriohmm19:09
kerioi don't believe you19:09
kerioCOCK19:09
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer19:09
DocScrutinizer/kick kerio19:09
kerioi said *auto*kick19:09
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer19:09
Stskeepswhat's the fucking deal19:09
Stskeeps:P19:09
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keriohold on, this channel is logged right?19:09
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DocScrutinizer/topic19:10
kerioso all my messages are stored...19:10
kerio:/19:10
DocScrutinizer:-P19:10
DocScrutinizeryou'll have to hide in a cave till end of times19:10
luke-jrthe autokick is for words like "overclock" etc19:10
DocScrutinizer/kick luke-jr19:11
luke-jr/stab DocScrutinizer19:11
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DocScrutinizerI actually have an autokick set up, but that's just for one guy19:12
dr34mi just received my new battery and the 900 works again19:12
DocScrutinizerand I'm HAPPY he's ending it19:12
dr34m\o/ thought already the phone is dead19:12
luke-jrdr34m: what phone?19:12
Termanadr34m, you couldn't just do emergency charging?19:13
dr34mthe original n900 battery died19:13
dr34mnope i tried couldnt revive it19:13
dr34mno idea what happened one morning the thing was dead. with new battery its good now .. i got a cheap one tho for testing19:13
dr34msome 1900ma thingi19:13
MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> I actually have an autokick set up, but that's just for one guy19:14
MohammadAGaww19:14
MohammadAGyou shouldn't have19:14
Termana:P19:14
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: :-D19:14
lcukDocScrutinizer, whos it setup for19:14
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DocScrutinizerI won't tell you as otherwise it bites me :-P19:15
DocScrutinizerread backscroll - you'll be able to figure19:15
lcuknope19:17
* Termana slaps ChanServ19:17
lcuki have no backscroll19:17
Termana<Termana> akick #maemo list19:17
DocScrutinizerthen check for most uttered phrase by HtheB19:17
Termana-ChanServ- You are not authorized to perform this operation.19:17
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Termana:P19:17
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: for this particular backscroll the screen suffices19:18
DocScrutinizer[2010-07-17 18:12:30] <DocScrutinizer> and I'm HAPPY he's ending it19:18
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MohammadAGhmm19:18
MohammadAGnick starts with H ends with B?19:18
DocScrutinizerthe nick is HtheB19:19
DocScrutinizerhttp://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=happy+ending19:19
DocScrutinizer:-P19:19
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MohammadAGyeah19:20
MohammadAGI know19:20
MohammadAGxD19:20
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Termanahappy ending!19:21
DocScrutinizer/kick SER19:21
Termana:P19:21
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DocScrutinizerhmm, seems broken XP19:21
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keriohey DocScrutinizer19:28
DocScrutinizerdr34m: could you do me a favour and *try* recover charging with original battery?19:28
DocScrutinizerdr34m: use original Nokia wallwart fastcharger. Insert battery. Do NOT try to power up device. Plug in to charger. Amber steady should show up. charge for 30min and observe. if after 30min amber vanishes, replug charger and do another charge cycle19:30
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dr34mi will iam still charging the new one ;)19:30
DocScrutinizergood plan :-D19:30
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dr34mi tried that before tho19:31
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DocScrutinizerdr34m: if recovery charging doesn't revive original battery for you, after some 3..5 cycles, then you could try hotswapping fron good to dead cell like http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=57734, and that when succeeding for sure should start normal charging of Nokia battery, after 'start bme'19:33
luke-jrhow open is the front camera?19:34
DocScrutinizerbut please try several recover charge cycles in series prior to that19:34
luke-jrcould I be saving PNGs instead of JPGs?19:34
DocScrutinizerfront? no idea19:34
DocScrutinizerwell, it's V4L2, no?19:34
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DocScrutinizerfor main camera openness refer to blessn90019:35
DocScrutinizerseems they did some really wicked stuff19:35
luke-jrdunno :)19:36
luke-jrI mean the 5MP one19:36
DocScrutinizerooh, that's rear aiui19:36
DocScrutinizeror main19:36
luke-jrhehe19:36
luke-jrI was just noting Wikipedia's long detailed article on Jpeg2000, and wondering why nobody actually uses it19:36
luke-jrthen went to wondering why I'm not saving PNGs from N90019:36
luke-jrXD19:37
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: ping SpeedEvil19:37
lcukDocScrutinizer, blessn900 is closed source afaik?19:37
* lcuk might be wrong19:37
DocScrutinizerhe seems to know a damn lot about cam and video/still19:37
DocScrutinizerlcuk: blessn900 *is* closed, but obviously they managed to get data about the cam module, to an extent where they were able to modify firmware drivers19:38
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DocScrutinizer"we found no other platform open enough to do this"19:38
DocScrutinizerblessn900.com19:39
lcukwe liek open source but we wont open our own stuff19:39
DocScrutinizeryeah. can't blame them though. Claer case of IP19:40
luke-jr...19:40
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Kegetys"BlessN900 implements unique SuperZoom technology, providing digital zoom quality close to one a generic optical zoom would provide"19:40
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Kegetysriight :P19:40
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DocScrutinizerthey share the app for free, at least. :-) And tbh it performs 10^4 times inferior to genuine pr1.2 cam nightmode, on low light19:41
lcukperhaps thats a translation problem, you just said it performs worse19:42
DocScrutinizeryes, extremely worse19:42
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DocScrutinizerwas a mere joke19:42
DocScrutinizerjust red and blue spots all over19:42
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DocScrutinizer100% saturated pixels in red and blue, ~5%19:43
lcukfirst pictures i ever took on n900 were at night in a dark club place19:43
DocScrutinizeron black background :-P19:43
* lcuk still looks at them and smiles19:43
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: wait ~4h till it gets dark here and I'll upload some shots to compare19:45
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DocScrutinizerif you're really interested19:46
wolf^DocScrutinizer, http://team.pld-linux.org/~wolf/bless/19:49
wolf^1 - normal, 2 - night mode, 3 - bless19:49
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lcukthanks wolf^19:52
lcukmy, the n900 default camera software is nice :)19:52
prontowolf^: is that the blessn900 camera app?19:53
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wolf^yes19:53
prontothat thing takes odd photos xD19:53
MohammadAGhmm19:54
MohammadAGthe LEDs look sexy in ubuntu19:54
MohammadAGuploading vid19:54
prontohttp://pronto185.com/n900/camera/Fire.8.07_16_2010.jpg  <<  with blessn900 set to HDR lol19:54
lcuksomeone else remarked on the camera stuff the other day, complimented on : http://liqbase.net/lads_we/20100710_023.jpg19:54
ShadowJKThat bless photo looks like ImageMagick's -equalize or -normalize ...19:55
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ShadowJKuh, pronto you tried to hdr a fire?19:56
lcuklol i have a few fire pictures too!19:56
prontoyeah19:56
keriothat doesn't really work19:56
lcuktaken from normal cam: http://liqbase.net/lads_we/20100710_029.jpg19:56
prontohttp://pronto185.com/n900/camera/?MD << pretty much all those are taken with the n90019:56
lcukmulticore marshmallow roasting!19:56
prontohttp://pronto185.com/n900/camera/Fire.6.07_16_2010.jpg  the camera makes purplefire!19:57
keriopronto: you need a *static* object to photograph for one-camera HDR19:57
prontokerio: i was just playing around with it lol19:57
lcukkerie with fire it doesnt much matter19:57
DocScrutinizerwolf^: yep thanks19:57
DocScrutinizerhttp://share.ovi.com/album/joerg900.public19:58
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ShadowJKI have awesome fire video somewhere.. perfect ignition of a fire in my fireplace :)19:58
luke-jrI have a rainbow picture..19:58
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lcuki have a picture of the most refined act of British snobbery ever!19:59
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lcuka goblet..of tea.19:59
lcukhttp://liqbase.net/lads_we/20100710_018.jpg19:59
Rabidus:O20:01
DocScrutinizernotice the 3 blue spots which are blurred by jpeg I guess, but were bright 100% b pixels on blessn900 original shot. on even lower light shots I had 100s of them, in red and blue20:01
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lcukDocScrutinizer, your n810 resembles pupniks quite a bit20:05
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lcukhttp://liqbase.net/liq.fosdem.pupnik.n810.20100207_007.jpg20:05
* luke-jr is currently rebuilding everything on his N810 with GCC 4.420:05
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lcuknice luke-jr - full gentoo rebuild? or just the bits you use?20:06
luke-jrfull20:07
luke-jrGCC 4.4 is not ABI compatible with 4.320:07
lcukhow long is it estimated to take?20:07
luke-jrlcuk: forever20:08
luke-jrXD20:08
luke-jrGentoo doesn't do estimates20:08
DocScrutinizerlcuk: (pupnik) mhm20:08
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luke-jrlcuk: first I need to rebuild the base system, then rebuild the entire system (including the base again)20:08
DocScrutinizer~gentoo luke-jr20:09
* infobot recompiles luke-jr again20:09
luke-jrit's almost done w/ the base20:09
luke-jrafter 48 hours I think20:09
DocScrutinizerlol20:09
luke-jrhaven't decided how I'm going to address qt-webkit20:10
DocScrutinizerGRRRR xchat blue LED PITA20:10
luke-jrit requires like 500 MB memory just to link20:10
luke-jr<.<20:10
DocScrutinizerRST38h: what's wrong with that shit? how to stop it?20:10
DocScrutinizerI really HATE this silly blue LED flashing for every highlight xchat sees20:11
DocScrutinizerI mean it's flashing blue 23:30 per day, for me20:11
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lcukluke-jr, o_O20:12
ShadowJK/notify_mode20:12
ShadowJK@ DocScrutinizer20:12
luke-jrlcuk: want to make a liqbase WM? :P20:13
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: hmm20:13
luke-jrlcuk: maybe even take on Qt as a whole?20:13
lcuki just see 500mb as massive20:13
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: FSCK how's the syntax?20:16
luke-jrlcuk: massive enough to watchdog-kill it20:16
lcukyeah thats a bit bad20:16
DocScrutinizer51191502 Notification Modes: LED:ON Vibrator:OFF Banner:OFF Dialog:OFF Channel:ON Private:ON20:17
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DocScrutinizernvm, figuerd it20:20
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DocScrutinizernevertheless >:-(( on these presets and `UI', and thanks ShadowJK :-)20:22
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: that's not acceptable there's no GUI interface to those notification settings20:23
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dr34mDocScrutinizer iam starting the cycles now with the old dead battery20:26
dr34mcharged the new one to max first20:27
dr34mlets see20:27
DocScrutinizerdr34m: thanks :)20:27
dr34m3-5 cycles shoudl do it usually ?20:27
DocScrutinizeryou don't by any chance have a voltmeter?20:27
dr34meach cycle is like 30 min.. wil take a while20:27
dr34mat work yea but not here and iam on vacation :|20:27
DocScrutinizernevermind20:27
dr34mjup20:28
DocScrutinizerusually one cycle *should* suffice20:28
DocScrutinizerbut for sure 5 cycles should give not better result than 420:28
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DocScrutinizerin other words cell should be charged as much as possible by recover charge, after maybe 3..4 cycles20:29
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dr34mwe'll see i'll let ya know what happens20:29
DocScrutinizercharge voltage is 3.54V on recover charge20:29
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DocScrutinizerthis will charge cell to maybe 20% *at max*20:30
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dr34mbut for 100% should be enough to boot the device properly20:30
DocScrutinizeryep20:30
DocScrutinizerthat's the idea20:30
dr34miam glad anyways the phone is ok20:31
DocScrutinizer:-)20:31
dr34m;)20:31
dr34mthe original battery sucks anyways20:31
dr34mcouldnt even make a day through work with it20:31
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DocScrutinizerdata over GPRS/3G pretty easily can drain your battery in less than 2h20:34
DocScrutinizerand that's not exactly Nokia's or N900's fault20:35
DocScrutinizernor the battery's20:35
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: just data?20:36
DocScrutinizerit's simply related to the fact a RF transmitter has to send data to next base station, and that inevitably eats hge amounts of power20:36
parimdr34m: all the batteries are the same.20:37
DocScrutinizeryeah but some are more same than others20:37
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: so it's a problem with voice too? :P20:41
DocScrutinizer51sure. if you're talking then the transmitter also has to send data to basestation20:42
DocScrutinizer51on a call20:42
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luke-jrI wonder which is better for battery life: voice calls or SIP data calls20:43
DocScrutinizer51no diff20:43
DocScrutinizer51if you use a low bandwidth codec20:43
DocScrutinizer51with high bandwidth codec I'd say SIP is worse20:44
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ppmanthis is probably hideously off-topic, but how do I make dosbox actually have a sane input mode?21:00
ppmanas in, properly use fn combos on n810?21:00
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luke-jrppman: I doubt you can21:01
ppmanso how do people use dosbox?21:01
ppmanit's impossible to type /, numbers, and a bunch of other useful stuff21:01
luke-jrdosbox /path/to/game ?21:02
ppmanI guess...21:02
ppmanstill hard to do certain games sans numbers, but it'll work21:02
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ShadowJKheh, I lent my N900 to my dad so he could use maesynth to tune this instrument he made :P21:10
sheepbatand not the tuning program?21:12
lcukwould it be possible to create a metronome app which used vibe module at its tick phase and accelomerometer to detect things21:13
lcukto sync a pair of them up slowly like they would in real life21:14
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lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1TMZASCR-I21:15
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technomikeHey guys, after removing mafw-gst-eq-renderer I have no media player on my N900!! :o I had to remove the equaliser renderer because of many bugs with it, causing distorted sound etc21:18
technomikehttp://blogs.igalia.com/jasuarez/tag/mafw-gst-eq-renderer/21:18
luke-jrlol21:19
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lcukoooh here is something using the rotational zoom gesture http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzmkS7ZS4ko21:20
lcukfrom 200821:20
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technomikeI guess I have removed the media player package :S21:22
luke-jrtechnomike: Maemo isn't Gentoo21:22
luke-jryou can't remove a dependency without removing the packages that depend on it21:23
technomikeAh21:23
technomikeI have no idea why the media player has disappeared21:24
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RST38hyaaawn21:25
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ech0Asuscan we video conference from iphone to n900?21:27
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kerioech0Asus: no n900 user would ever speak to21:32
kerioer21:32
kerioto an apple fanboy21:32
technomikeI guess I am going to have to restore and start my whole N900 again! :(21:32
kerionoooooooo ._.21:33
ech0Asuswell i don't think a n900 is right for my girlfriend but i'd like to be able to video conference with her on another device such as an iphone..21:33
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luke-jrech0Asus: I suspect Skype might work21:34
luke-jrech0Asus: Android > iPhone21:34
DocScrutinizer51lcuk: sure. just need to reduce period a itsy bit each time you sense an accel event in 96..100% period21:34
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Jaffaech0Asus: There's a thread about FaceTime on tmo; theoretically it might be possible, but there's routing via Apple's servers to decode.21:37
Jaffaluke-jr: No mobile device apart from N900 does Skype video AIUI21:37
luke-jrJaffa: not even N900 then21:38
DocScrutinizer51or period*=0.99 on event in 2nd half of period, *=1.01 on first half21:38
DocScrutinizer51Jaffa: o/ :)21:38
technomikeFaceTime, what a pathetic thing21:39
lcukDocScrutinizer51, :D21:39
luke-jrwhat good is "Skype video" if it doesn't work with any other Skype?21:39
hardaker2Jaffa: actually, the android 2.2 does now.21:39
technomikeech0Asus - I have just had an idea, you will be able to video conference with skype, with your girlfriend on iphone and you on n90021:40
hardaker2eg, the motorola droid does skype video21:40
technomikebecause iphone has skype21:40
technomikebut I am not sure if it has video support yet21:40
luke-jrtechnomike: Skype does not imply video21:40
luke-jrdoes iPhone have a front-facing cam?21:40
ech0Asusah ok so any device with skype will work?21:40
technomikeiPhone4 does21:40
ech0Asusthe new iphone does21:40
luke-jrech0Asus: no21:40
luke-jrfor example, I know at least Skype for OS X does not work with N90021:40
luke-jrnor Skype for Windows21:40
ech0Asusdamn.. that sux21:40
technomikeGuys, any ideas how to install the default media player again?21:41
technomikehow to reinstall I mean21:41
technomikeWould really appreciate it, have no idea why it has been removed :S21:41
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technomikeI suspect the second part of this command is to blame but its INSTALLING so not sure, but it has mp - maybe mp for media player? - apt-get install mafw-gst-renderer mp-fremantle-generic-pr21:42
luke-jrtechnomike: I already told you why21:42
technomikeagh, my head is in a spin over this21:42
luke-jr[13:22:41] <luke-jr> technomike: Maemo isn't Gentoo21:43
luke-jr[13:23:05] <luke-jr> you can't remove a dependency without removing the packages that depend on it21:43
luke-jr21:43
technomikeI have not removed anything though ;)21:43
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ShadowJKsheepbat, there's a tuning program?21:44
sheepbatye21:44
sheepbats21:44
luke-jr"[13:18:14] <technomike> Hey guys, after removing mafw-gst-eq-renderer ..."21:44
sheepbatit's called "tuner"21:44
technomikeluke-jr - Seperate renderer though21:45
sheepbatit has a little keyboard, and a pitch sensor21:45
luke-jrtechnomike: probably a dependency of the media player21:45
technomikeAh21:45
technomikeDamn :(21:45
ShadowJKtechnomike, mp-fremantle-* is a metapackage that depends on most things21:45
ShadowJKif you install it you get most things installed21:45
technomikeOh :P My mistake then21:45
technomikethanks21:46
technomikeI just followed the uninstall procedure on this page: http://blogs.igalia.com/jasuarez/2010/02/19/mafw-gst-eq-renderer-0-1-2009-47-1-1-released/21:46
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ShadowJKand if you remove it you dont get updates again21:46
ShadowJKSo basically, unless you know what you're doing, use the app manager and not apt21:46
technomikeIs there any way to reinstall the media player?21:46
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technomikeShadowJK - Thanks for the advice ;) Know for future now21:47
ShadowJKtry install that mp-fremantle-generic-pr thing21:47
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technomikethe package isn't available but is referred to by another package21:48
technomikeno install candidate21:48
technomikeDamn :( I didn't expect things would go this bad21:49
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LiraNunais there a way to open the media player when A2DP connection's "play" occurs and MP is not open?21:50
technomikeGood question21:50
technomikeI don't think so because I have had similar problem21:50
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technomikeand many others, I have seen on the net21:51
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: have you forgoten about something?21:52
DocScrutinizer51not really. you got the interim thing?21:52
jacekowskino21:53
jacekowskioh21:53
jacekowskiyou mean that link21:53
DocScrutinizer30..29..21:53
jacekowski28 2721:53
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DocScrutinizerhope you poll POP every 30s :-P21:55
jacekowskino21:55
jacekowskii use zimbra21:55
jacekowskiit's push21:55
jacekowskihmm, can you send it as an attachment21:56
DocScrutinizerso should push you by now21:56
DocScrutinizercan do, sure21:56
DocScrutinizermompl21:56
jacekowskiand you don't have to sign it21:57
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DocScrutinizersorry, all signed21:59
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DocScrutinizeru got mail21:59
technomikeNope21:59
technomikeHow can I restore maemo, and everything. Maybe that will reinstall the media player :S22:00
DocScrutinizerreflash22:00
technomikeDamn :(22:00
DocScrutinizermaybe apt-get upgrade will do for this paticular case22:01
DocScrutinizeror apt-get -f install22:01
DocScrutinizeror sth like that22:01
DocScrutinizer[2010-07-17 20:47:18] <ShadowJK> try install that mp-fremantle-generic-pr thing22:02
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technomikeThanks I will try that right now. I did apt-get install mp-fremantle-generic-pr, but the package couldn't be found or something22:03
ShadowJKthat tuner app is more like $random22:05
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luke-jrwhy does Busybox less suck so badly?22:07
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: test the other analysis algo, I found it's much better22:07
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: just because there's no such thing like messybox-less22:07
ShadowJKYeah im using harmonic product thing22:08
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: wtf?22:08
luke-jrI like GNU less22:08
luke-jrand its PCRE support22:08
luke-jr:D22:08
DocScrutinizerI *HATE* BUSSYBOX22:08
luke-jrme too. mainly because of less.22:08
luke-jrI copy Maemo files to Gentoo just to look at them22:08
DocScrutinizer~busybox22:08
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, busybox is the swiss army knife of embedded linux.  It combines tiny versions of many common UNIX utilities into a single small executable. It provides replacements for most of the utilities you usually find in GNU fileutils, shellutils, etc.  See http://www.busybox.net/.22:08
luke-jr<.<22:08
DocScrutinizerfuck22:09
DocScrutinizer~messybox22:09
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DocScrutinizer~crapybox22:09
DocScrutinizer~worthless22:09
infoboti guess worthless is the neatest, most spiffiest example of coolness ever!!!22:09
luke-jrLOL22:09
sp3000technomike: should be in the system updates whatever catalog that's on by default, afaict ...although that might depend on what version you're at22:09
DocScrutinizer~you are useless22:10
infobotDocScrutinizer: what are you talking about?22:10
DocScrutinizer~useless22:10
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* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :(22:10
DocScrutinizer!!22:10
sp3000isn't there a package that installs some nicer gnutils?22:10
* sp3000 hasn't bothered though22:10
technomike*sigh* No luck :( I guess I have to reflash22:10
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technomikeOh22:10
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sp3000now afaiui the updates repos only contain updates, but if any packages you're missing have been updated, you might be in luck22:11
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technomikehave tried apt-get upgrade etc but nothing22:15
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technomikesp3000 - Is a reflash the only way to fix this now?22:16
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sp3000if you can't get at the missing package otherwise, backup and reflash would be it22:19
technomikeDamn, is reflash the only way then :(22:19
technomikeIs it easy?22:19
ShadowJKtheremin has some nasty crackles in sound22:20
technomikeI don't have to backup the mass storage do I? (the 32gb partition)22:20
technomikefor a reflash I mean22:20
DocScrutinizernope you don't22:21
technomikePhew, would take a while22:21
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DocScrutinizerjust reflash rootfs (*COMBINED*)22:21
DocScrutinizerthen restore22:21
DocScrutinizerthe backup22:22
luke-jrtechnomike: there is no 32 GB partition...22:22
DocScrutinizeryeah it's 2822:22
DocScrutinizerand an 2GB home22:22
DocScrutinizeranyway22:22
luke-jr27 I thought22:22
luke-jr+2 GB home + .7 GB swap22:22
DocScrutinizerwhatever22:22
* DocScrutinizer refuses to argue with luke-jr about tonal->decimal conversions :-P22:23
technomikeluke-jr - Haha my mistake, but I just mean the mass storage22:23
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: I'm thinking about using an arduino to make a tachymetre for my bike. I want to use the spark plug or ignition wire to get a frequency off the engine22:23
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: thoughts?22:24
DocScrutinizerpondering22:24
DocScrutinizerstay away from spark plug&cable. use breaker impulse (one cyl?), and FILTER FILTER FILTER and clamp22:25
DocScrutinizerthen filter once more22:26
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: single cylinder, four stroke.22:26
DocScrutinizerk22:26
crashanddiebreaker impulse?22:26
DocScrutinizerso 1 pulse = 2 rotations22:26
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DocScrutinizerthe contact that triggers spark22:27
crashanddieah, k22:27
DocScrutinizerusually engaged by an excenter22:27
crashanddieI was thinking about induction to capture the frequency22:27
crashanddieso wrapping a bunch of times around the wire, so I don't need to open up the wire22:28
rdCan I disable packet data internet access and tell the N900 not always to ask if it is allowed to connect (but only connect if I ask for a connection)?22:28
DocScrutinizercould do, but for sure much more hassle to filter22:28
luke-jrrd: that's the default22:28
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: I'm going to get a digital osciloscope from school and see what signal I'm getting22:28
DocScrutinizerhappy bashing when bringing back the somked up scope ;-P22:29
crashanddieyou think it'll die?22:29
DocScrutinizerprepare for kV spikes22:29
DocScrutinizerthat's why I said22:29
crashanddiehmm22:29
DocScrutinizerFILTER FILTER FILTER and clamp22:30
crashanddiewell, I can get an industrial analogue one if required :P22:30
DocScrutinizerwon't make any diff, scopes usually are up to 25V input or somesuch22:30
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LiraNunaFILTER FILTER FILTER and clamp22:31
DocScrutinizeryou'd at very least need a high volt probe, preferrably 500:122:31
sp3000that sounds like a dodgy dance routine22:31
crashanddieI know we used that scope to measure things upwards of 8kV22:31
lcukcrashanddie, take photographs of your face, get estimate of speed by processing and how far your cheeks are flapping22:32
crashanddiethough the precision is pretty crap22:32
DocScrutinizerk, so you're safe if use correctly22:32
crashanddielcuk: speed is fine, it's RPM and MPG I want.22:32
lcukdo bikes have the same kind of interface cars have?22:32
LiraNunalcuk, lmao @ both comments22:33
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: can't you attach a wire to one end of ignition coil?22:33
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: could do22:33
DocScrutinizerNOT the spark end!22:33
lcukwouldnt he be better using the data on the console22:33
lcukie doesnt it have a rev meter and speedo22:33
crashanddieit does have rev counter on the data, but no idea how to access it22:34
crashanddieI've been googling but no-one reverse-engineered it22:34
DocScrutinizerseems no, otherwise he wouldn't try to build his own?22:34
b-manhmm, my n900 is turning itself on 0_o22:34
crashanddieapparently it's just a read-only eprom.22:34
luke-jrb-man: ofc22:34
sp3000kinky22:34
luke-jrb-man: just like all Maemo devices, it needs to be on to charge battery22:34
crashanddielcuk: though, I don't know how often it's updated22:34
b-manit's not on the charger22:34
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: on cnsole RPM meter there are 3 wires, one of them has a pretty nice RPM signal22:35
DocScrutinizerI strongly advice to use that one22:35
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crashanddiehmm22:35
crashanddiethen I just need to figure out some math to calculate the mileage.22:35
lcukb-man, aliens22:35
crashanddieOK, I need to get some testing equipment and see what kind of signals I'm getting22:36
b-manlol22:36
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lcukcrashanddie, still, you could place a moisture sensor in your seat - once you reach lightspeed you will start to wet your pants22:37
marmouteHello, I juste plug to the sector My N900 which shut down because of low battery 5 day ago (and have not been reloaded since)22:37
crashanddielcuk: I'm wetting myself (and worse) more than once a day on it :P I'm such a noob rider :D22:37
marmouteA static yellow diode is on. but the phone refuse to boot. should I worry ?22:38
lcukmarmoute, just give it some time to charge a bit22:38
crashanddiemarmoute: static means it's in "pre-charge" mode. It will last for 32 minutes, then re-plug the charger. Keep doing that until the yellow diode blinks.22:38
crashanddielcuk: I'm lucky to have a top case, clean undies every red light :P22:39
lcukcrashanddie, i bet, motorbikes are awesome but scary22:39
crashanddielcuk: actually, girlfriend and I are planning to get our licence and then go all the way to India :)22:40
lcukis that because you are too scared to press the brake?22:40
marmoutecrashanddie: Ok so I keep it plugged and un-plug re-plug from time to time until it blink22:40
crashanddielcuk: nha, just that drivers in France are crazy. Red lights and stop signs are optional, it woudl seem22:41
luke-jrStskeeps: ping22:41
crashanddielcuk: when driving a car, I wasn't too afraid to force my right-of-way, but on a bike it's a whole different story.22:41
lcukcrashanddie, thats the same wherever22:41
lcukbut yeah france is worsersererererere22:41
* marmoute is hapy as his N900 is alreaddy blinking and bootinh22:41
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DrGrovGood evening everyone22:42
DrGrovHas anyone tested NuvoFre 1.10 yet?22:42
luke-jrnever heard ofi t22:42
LiraNunaluke-jr doesn't read maemo.org news22:43
DrGrovah okay, it was todays maemo.org news22:43
luke-jrnope22:43
luke-jrmaemo.org news is usally worthless IMO22:43
DrGrovi might need to give a test but would be nice to know first if anyone has tried it22:44
lcukluke-jr, if the news does not suit you, then make/find/submit news that does suit22:45
lcuklike slashdot, its all based on submissions from users22:45
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LiraNunawell said, lcuk22:46
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unknown2030Why when i want to select a specific word the maemo select all text anyone knows22:46
DocScrutinizerdr34m: [2010-07-17 21:41:41] * marmoute is hapy as his N900 is alreaddy blinking and bootinh22:46
luke-jrlcuk: ... or I can just not read it. much faster.22:47
drglnxunknown2030, in which mode you are trying to select text ?22:47
lcukluke-jr, sure you could, but it would be nice to not hear you moan that its crap when you dont actively do anything to help it22:47
unknown2030With the pencil22:48
unknown2030Im using n81022:48
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lcukunknown2030, on which application22:48
lcukafaik, text selection (using the stylus) used to work22:48
drglnxyea, that was what im supposed to ask22:48
DrGrovI at least love the maemo.org news. Always a pleasure to read every day to see what is new :)22:48
drglnxlol22:48
luke-jrlcuk: the news I would submit would be no doubt boring to regular readers22:49
luke-jrI mean, how many N900 owners care that I have a GCC 4.4 built kernel for N900?22:49
lcukwithout submitting it you will never know22:49
lcuki do22:49
DocScrutinizeron gentoo22:49
lcuki think your gentoo stuff is cool22:49
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: it boots Maemo22:49
DrGrovbrb22:49
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unknown2030Pidgin, terminal, notes22:49
DocScrutinizerunknown2030: odd22:50
luke-jrlcuk: I suspect people who care are a minority; I posted a N810 kernel to talk once and nobody seemed to care but like 2 people22:50
luke-jrwhich is fine. I'm not complaining.22:51
unknown2030its strange22:51
DocScrutinizerunknown2030: works like charm here22:51
DocScrutinizerin xterm22:51
luke-jrjust not interested in spending time telling people who don't care to hear about it. :p22:51
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: I see :-P22:51
lcukluke-jr, then do it for yourself in 12 months time22:52
unknown2030Charm ;;;22:52
luke-jrheh22:52
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: are you on gentoo?22:57
DocScrutinizerme? nah22:58
DocScrutinizerI'm afk22:58
unknown2030I hate my n810 i need to reboot it22:58
luke-jrlol22:58
unknown2030How i can backup all22:58
luke-jr...22:58
luke-jryou mean flash it?22:58
unknown2030Yes i22:58
Jaffaluke-jr: The SNR on Talk means getting the intellectual elite of the Maemo community to see something is a little tricky22:59
DocScrutinizer51unknown2030: try drawing app to make sure touchscreen calib is ok22:59
unknown2030The touchscreen it works23:01
unknown2030When you are in notes and want to select a word and highlight only press the stylus or finger one time and select it in my case select all the text area23:03
DocScrutinizer51so your problem description is lil fuzzy23:03
DocScrutinizer51mhm23:03
DocScrutinizer51when I set stylus to e.g xterm it does nothing until I start to drag23:04
lcukjaffa, bullpoo - thats just an excuse not to post there by putting yourself above it!  you participate in threads as highlighted and with more eyes you should hear more.23:04
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lcuki dont think any one person can monitor everything though you are right23:04
lcukjaffa, any large forum is similar and its only going to get *worse* not better in meego when you have people discussing the same thing on different UXes23:06
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unknown2030Or when you press ctrl + a select all text happen the seme when i try to select a word23:09
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drglnxmaybe you should get n900 :D23:12
unknown2030Hehehehe23:13
unknown2030How i can do a / backup23:13
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BCMMwhat does the sharing-service-ftp package do?23:15
lcukBCMM, at a guess it allows you to share with a configurable ftp server...23:17
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trumeeluke-jr: you have ebuilds for freeswitch on gentoo?23:31
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technomikeIf I attempt to update using NSU, will I be able to reflash maemo and not lose anything, and keep everything intact. Its only to fix the media player :(23:55
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Andy80what are the right Qt libraries to use: libqt4-* or libqt4-maemo5-* ??? Because in Scratchbox both packages are available but if I remember well one is deprecated...23:56
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