IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-07-12

luke-jralso, if I wanted more bandwidth, I'd implement parallel queries00:00
luke-jrmy protocol supports up to 255 concurrent queries ;)00:00
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luke-jr(though neither server nor client implementation)00:01
luke-jrand up to 254 channels/connections I might add00:02
luke-jron the server00:02
keriohow much overhead do you have?00:03
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kerioalso, how are you tunneling the connection?00:03
luke-jroverhead can vary00:04
luke-jrupload has a lot of overhead00:04
luke-jrdownload is about 2x I think00:04
kerioa SOCKS proxy?00:04
kerioi meant00:04
keriohow are you forwarding a TCP connection through your program00:04
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luke-jrssh -o ProxyCommand -C -L 5900:localhost:5900 dnstunnel00:05
luke-jrSSH adds encryption and compression00:06
kerioi see00:06
keriohmm, what does ssh expect from the proxycommand?00:06
luke-jra command00:07
kerioi know00:07
keriobut what's the command supposed to do00:07
luke-jrSSH uses its stdin/stdout as if it were the TCP socket00:07
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kerio(so the hostname is just bogus?)00:07
luke-jryeah :)00:07
luke-jrssh -o ProxyCommand " %h" -C -L 5900:localhost:5900 remotehost.com00:07
keriouse the builtin SOCKS proxy00:07
luke-jrthat's another possibility00:07
SpeedEvilhow do you get ssh to connect to a device - say - /dev/ttyS000:07
SpeedEvilfor example00:08
luke-jrSSH has tun/tap VPN now00:08
SpeedEviland the remote end just act like it was a local device00:08
luke-jrSpeedEvil: -o ProxyCommand 'socat stdio: ???:/dev/ttyS0'00:08
luke-jrnfc on server end :)00:08
SpeedEviltrying to connect ppp over ssh to a remote device00:08
keriodo ssh over ppp00:08
kerio*way* easier00:08
luke-jrkerio: I couldn't get PPP to work earlier00:09
kerioppp over ssh over ppp!00:09
luke-jrbut that was before I fixed the MTU issue00:09
kerioand then ssh and ppp a couple more times00:09
SpeedEvilkerio: don't have easy control of ppp on the other side00:09
luke-jr(when I was uploading a lot, downloading a lot pushed the packet size too far)00:09
keriothere's a client command to run a ppp end00:09
luke-jrif I were going to use it, I'd set it up on my router spawning PPPd on LAN bridge :)00:10
luke-jrI think it was the MTU issue that broke PP00:10
DocScrutinizermy carro00:10
nextimeis it openvpn too easy to use?00:10
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DocScrutinizermy carrier sent an email excusing for him messing up the MTU recently00:11
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DocScrutinizerso it wasn't my machine, which was happy ever before with MTU 150000:11
JaffaGAN900: I'm done. Everything's basically fleshed out. I CBA to go on a news hunt; but feel free :-)00:11
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luke-jrnextime: OpenVPN requires data service00:13
nextimeluke-jr : and doing ppp over ssh doesn't?00:14
luke-jrnextime: doing PPP over my-script doesn't.00:14
nextimeluke-jr : what your script do?00:15
luke-jrnextime: tunnels a stream over DNS00:15
nextimeluke-jr : ah, ok00:15
nextimei was using iodine as dns tunnel long time ago00:16
GAN900Jaffa, will do.00:16
nextimeno more need for luck00:16
GAN900Jaffa, at the end of a very stressful Rays game here.00:16
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GAN900Whew, thank goodness that's over.00:18
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* nextime goes back to fight with pic18 assembly00:19
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luke-jrgah, wish I learned about iodine earlier00:23
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luke-jrkerio: basicalyl what my script does00:26
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luke-jrbut better00:26
luke-jrassuming T-Mobile doesn't filter it00:26
keriooh, not the halogen00:27
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Macerwhat's the best way to measure disk io in debian?00:28
Macerthere's an iotop? :)00:29
luke-jrN900's stock kernel lacks the config it requires00:29
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Macer\ 9991\ mace\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ 0.21\ M/s\ \ \ \ 0.37\ M/s\ \ 0.00\ \%\ 13.21\ \%\ rtorrent\ \ \ \00:33
Macer 9991 mace        0.21 M/s    0.37 M/s  0.00 % 13.21 % rtorrent00:34
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Macerhah! osx has escaped text in term? :)00:34
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GAN900My N900's slide keeps drifting south01:14
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FreeWolFcan i do some questions about n900 and maemo ?01:19
cehtehluke-jr: there is a single connection dns tunnel which performs better than iodyne .. when you get your vpn tunneled thats all you need01:20
FreeWolFok, some stupid questions: can i use the n900 in vertical mode witout problem ? the last firmware contains optimizations for vertical mode ?01:22
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cehtehonly for some applications and of course slideout keyboard makes no sense vertically01:23
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luke-jrcehteh: link01:24
cehtehdunno i think its called 'dnstunnel'01:24
FreeWolFthank you01:25
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cehteha friend told me after i installed iodine, but i didnt set that up yet01:25
cehtehbtw you want a short domainname to optimize dns tunneling :)01:25
cehtehand you dont want to look at the inner workings (waargs :))01:26
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luke-jrcehteh: looks basically like what I wrote01:28
cehtehi dont know what you wrote, but someone told me that this dnstunnel has much better performance than iodine (and nstx)01:28
cehtehbut you prolly need a openvpn or ssh tunnel over it anyways01:29
luke-jrit's called OzymanDNS FWIW01:29
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luke-jrcehteh: and T-Mobile would block it01:30
luke-jrsince it uses TXT records01:30
cehtehno fallback to name queries?01:30
luke-jrdidn't read the code, just the site :)01:31
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luke-jriodine says it uses NULL records, which I dont' know anything about and haven't tested01:31
cehtehdns2tcp - TCP over DNS tunnel client and server01:31
luke-jrmy script uses AAAA records01:31
cehtehthats it, not ozymandns01:31
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luke-jrT-Mobile allows *all* port 53 UDP without data svc...02:25
luke-jrscrew DNS, just run OpenVPN on port 53..02:26
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luke-jror not02:29
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SpeedEvilIs there not a data usage cost without a data plan - that they're just not enforcing?02:31
luke-jrSpeedEvil: well, I'm testing without any form of service, so...02:31
asjSpeedEvil: t-mobile charges $1/day for data on pay-go and I presume luke-jr can't afford or ojbects to the charging for internet02:33
luke-jrasj: nah, I'm just playing before I get service and it's too easy02:33
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MohammadAG51#NITUbuntu for anyone interested in ubuntu on the N90003:21
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SpeedEvilCome back when you can do slackware.03:29
mortinipft. Haiku!03:35
pupnik_hey maemo03:38
pupnik_hows palestine mortini03:39
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mortinipupnik_: eh?03:39
pupnik_perfectly relevant03:39
pupnik_property rights03:39
pupnik_assume MohammadAG51 creates a great program03:40
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pupnik_is the israeli government entitled to steal it and make it their own?03:40
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pupnik_no of course they are not03:41
luke-jrprograms aren't property03:41
pupnik_and the israeli government isn't entitled to steal property from palestinians03:41
luke-jrpupnik_: there is no israeli government then :)03:41
pupnik_right luke-jr03:41
MohammadAG51what does the government have to do with...03:41
mortiniMohammadAG51: trolling, perhaps? idk.03:42
pupnik_should the US fbi SHUT DOWN all investigations of israeli spies?03:42
pupnik_your opinion MohammadAG51 ?03:42
luke-jrwhy not just lynch them on sight?03:42
pupnik_oh wait03:42
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MohammadAG51my opinion is...03:42
luke-jrMohammadAG51: irrelevant03:43
pupnik_should israeli realaudio insert trojans into all our computers?03:43
MohammadAG51i can see that03:43
pupnik_should israeli intel CHIPSETS insert trojans into all our computers?03:43
pupnik_should israelis monitor the white house?03:43
* MohammadAG51 passes the sleeping pills to pupnik_ 03:43
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pupnik_free software is the enemy of governments MohammadAG5103:44
pupnik_this is our domain03:44
pupnik_this is maemo03:44
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luke-jrpupnik_ is the enemy of governments03:44
pupnik_think, luke-jr03:44
pupnik_should assholes spy on you luke-jr ?03:44
luke-jrI'll think about it, pupnik_...03:44
pupnik_isn't that what we are about?03:45
luke-jrpupnik_: no, those don't have any senses to spy with03:45
luke-jreyes perhaps03:45
luke-jror ears03:45
pupnik_preventing cock suckers from spying on our computers?03:45
luke-jrso no women?03:45
pupnik_you are dirt, luke-jr03:45
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* luke-jr trolls the troll03:46
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MohammadAG51can we stop with the shitty politics?03:46
pupnik_it is part of open-source MohammadAG5103:47
pupnik_freedom to decide what happens on your computer03:47
MohammadAG51maemo isn't that open, take it to #meego03:47
pupnik_no this is part of our culture03:47
* MohammadAG51 laughs diabolically03:47
pupnik_fuckheads get embarassed publically03:48
asjpupnik_: no it's not, #maemo culture revolves around complaining about Nokia03:48
pupnik_any asshole who wants to control your computer is an evil fuck03:48
MohammadAG51who the fuck wants to control my computer03:48
psycho_oreosthere's plenty of them03:48
MohammadAG51you're a paranoid pupnik_  :P03:48
pupnik_i'm an american MohammadAG5103:49
pupnik_i have more leeway than you do03:49
MohammadAG51is that synonymous nowadays?03:49
pupnik_i'm going to die in a few years, i don't care03:49
MohammadAG51leeway eh? *takes out a dictionary*03:49
lcukpupnik_, so how would you design a cpu subsystem that was provably clean and open03:50
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pupnik_lcuk: that's an old debate..03:51
pupnik_but this intel in israel shit is really bad03:51
pupnik_they may really have created hardware trojans03:51
* MohammadAG51 switches pupnik_ to AMD03:51
pupnik_and the history supports it03:51
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pupnik_hey SpeedEvil03:52
pupnik_just talking about israeli trojans03:52
pupnik_you know03:52
pupnik_uss LIBERTY03:52
SpeedEvilThey make condoms?03:52
pupnik_no they're stupid fuckheads03:53
pupnik_but they survive on people being to shy to talk about their crime syndicate03:53
pupnik_ bronfman03:53
lcukoh pupnik_ :( go lie down, i know i am03:54
pupnik_open source is an enemy to this shit03:54
pupnik_lcuk: transparency03:54
pupnik_we are03:54
pupnik_the heroes03:54
pupnik_of the world03:54
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pupnik_check out the israeli-intel connection lcuk03:56
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lcukpupnik_, people have freedom of choice.  you can use chips from different manufacturers - maemo is specifically arm at this time.  if you are going to moan and be ractist please do follow MohammadAG51's advice and take it elsewhere03:59
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pupnik_no lcuk it's a conspiracy03:59
luke-jrhe said nothing racist03:59
pupnik_sorry, but look03:59
pupnik_jane harmann03:59
pupnik_you are not looking03:59
pupnik_freedom is absence of asshole fucktards deciding what we can type04:00
pupnik_that is the very core goal of our movement04:00
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pupnik_and shit heads may deserve violent negation04:01
pupnik_that's live lcuk04:01
pupnik_some people must be stopped04:02
ljpand this has to do with maemo... how?04:02
pupnik_in innumerable ways ljp, you dear child04:02
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pupnik_all we do is corrupted by the shitheads in politics04:03
ljpsure thing, giant beer04:03
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pupnik_you don't do anything good, unless you work for the good, lcuk04:06
smackpotatoi was having some trouble downloading the diablo sdk wget couldnt find the repository04:06
pupnik_and these mother fuckers04:07
pupnik_who kill millions in iraq04:07
pupnik_if any of you shitheads supports that04:07
pupnik_i'll be angry04:07
pupnik_you cheerleaders of genocide04:08
smackpotatootherwize im making headway in my quest to overclock the n8004:08
pupnik_toys don't matter04:08
pupnik_i will be angry with you... show your support for genocide04:08
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smackpotatoraw raw04:08
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smackpotatoso is there anyone here interested in overclocking the n81004:11
smackpotatodoes anyone still own the n81004:11
luke-jroverclocking is just stupid in general, let alone on something old04:12
lcuksmackpotato, awesome idea!  when diablo came out, the n800 got an effective overclock from old top cpu of 340mhz to 400.04:12
lcuk(i assume now every single n8x0 is out of warranty ;)04:13
smackpotatowellthere is a guy that wrote some novel code that overclocked  a milestone it is very interesting04:13
pupnik_well why didn't you smash me in the face and steal my n810 lcuk ?04:13
lcukcos ive got 2 of my own04:14
lcukand yours has awesome scratches04:14
pupnik_nah, caue you are a moral person04:14
pupnik_that is our duty04:14
smackpotato i have a 770 an n810 and a storefront display on an n 80004:15
pupnik_to  be good people04:15
pupnik_or at least to try04:15
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pupnik_the whole fucking point is to be open source04:20
pupnik_you dumb asses04:20
pupnik_to eliminate tyrant control over our lives04:21
pupnik_if nokia wants to help, nice04:21
smackpotatoto overclock there are two structures that are required to be hacked one is frequency table the other is the lookup table that maps  frequncys to voltage04:22
smackpotatothe other got them from  a function that is exported by the omap kernel04:23
pupnik_i'm tired of you fuckheads04:23
pupnik_maemo is now a place where everyone understsnads tyranny04:24
pupnik_and freedom04:24
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derfWe love you, too, pupnik_.04:25
smackpotatobut i think i got them from cpufreq_cpu_get and  omap2_scale_voltage04:25
pupnik_derf: i rspect your work.  but you have some stuff to atone for04:25
pupnik_you worked for the US war department04:26
smackpotatoso i need the sdk to check it out04:26
pupnik_the genocidal idiots04:26
pupnik_kkiling hundreds of thousands of people04:26
pupnik_this is also relevant to maemo04:26
pupnik_we must oppose mass murder04:27
pupnik_while we build nice toys04:27
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* ptl agrees, even if pupnik_ is using irony.04:28
smackpotatoI used to be altruistic but then i needed a liver so i started praying for people to die04:28
derfI'm pretty sure he's sincere.04:28
derfHe's been singing this tune for 4 years.04:28
smackpotatoi imagin my dad had the same feeling when at  war04:29
pupnik_the temptation to use ammonium nitrate or vaious poisons is .. well... it's there04:29
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pupnik_man, the hate04:31
pupnik_you guys seen 'collateral damage'?04:32
pupnik_i'll fuckin ruin the happyness of this channel over that04:32
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derfWell, I said I loved you, and you accused me of participating in genocide.04:33
pupnik_vague memory derf04:33
pupnik_i think you were pro -blow them to allah-04:33
TermanaSomeone smack me across the chops04:33
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derfYou are very wrong.04:33
pupnik_oh sorry04:34
pupnik_i really suffer for this crap04:34
smackpotatowhy ter...04:34
pupnik_look, economically, the USA will not be able to produce goods04:35
pupnik_they WILL become a gangster state04:35
pupnik_threatening the rest of the world04:35
pupnik_and that affects everything we do04:35
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pupnik_so  base your career on that prediction04:36
pupnik_dumb, stupid, idiot americans,..... with nukes04:36
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smackpotatook another question is it easy to convert a make file that was to be used in a cross compiler to one that is to be used in the sdk04:39
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smackpotatohas maemo lost all its fans to android04:41
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psycho_oreosdoubt it04:42
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smackpotatohow come the is little chatter at maemo.develop04:43
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smackpotatothe+ there04:44
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psycho_oreosprobably different timezones and all, I think most of the work are now aiming towards meego now04:46
smackpotatook ill buy a mego tablet04:47
smackpotatowith an a9 proccessor04:48
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udntnomesmackpotato: why not a iphone.04:49
smackpotatothere does'nt apear to be mego chanell04:50
smackpotatomy "tricked out" n810 beats an iphone anyday04:50
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smackpotatowhy an iphone04:51
psycho_oreoslook at me! I have a shitty iphail!04:52
smackpotatoi like my n810 more than an ipad so much more lighter04:53
udntnomethe meego tablet looks nice!04:53
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smackpotatois it coming out on arm or x8604:54
psycho_oreosI like n900, it has both phone and linux in one, too bad it isn't perfect software-wise but I can forgive that the software gives me unfettered access to its resources04:54
udntnomeidk but since they are working with intel, id assume x86?04:54
smackpotatoah two es in mego04:54
udntnomepsycho_oreos: whats wrong with the software?04:55
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psycho_oreosits going to be x86 because intel I believe sold off their arm branch.. however meego may also be available for n900 with hacks, the prototype of meego runs on arm base04:55
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psycho_oreosudntnome, on the GUI side is kinda where it's a bit shoddy, like the lack of portrait mode, the lack of advanced user features like easy installing deb files without going into shell/terminal, the onscreen keyboard is a bit too big, etc04:56
smackpotatoI d rather have my n810 than an apple air04:57
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psycho_oreosand n900 is equipped with a puny battery, smaller than its predecessors04:57
smackpotatois it wow what made them do that04:58
psycho_oreosI'd rather a proper linux device compared to any iphail04:58
udntnomethe battery i can agree with04:59
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psycho_oreosudntnome, apart from that I'm not really hating n900, overall its a nice hardware and software is mostly ok, what's best of all is that its not like android where its not easy to get into root without hacks.. along with dualbooting (supposedly I've heard nexus one is the only phone that has unlocked bootloader)05:00
udntnomeconsidering the ad galore on the iphone/andriod apps, there is nothing else thats really better05:00
psycho_oreosheck no, I would never want a phone that would tell me what to do and what not to do.. I've been there and done that with shitian, I mean symbian.. never again05:01
smackpotatospam spam spam spam05:01
* GeneralAntilles tries not to editorialize too much.05:04
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udntnomeplus i dislike ATT!05:04
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psycho_oreosATT? you meant AT&T? ahh I don't live in the stateside so I wouldn't know :)05:05
smackpotatoi live across the stream as well05:05
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Termanasmackpotato, re: question you asked in #meego - Diablo as in Maemo, or Diablo as in the game?05:07
smackpotatothe os05:07
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psycho_oreosdiablo is like maemo 4.1 I think.. its for N810? *shrugs*05:07
Termanasmackpotato, right, I've got it on my n810, nostalgic fan isn't the word I would use, but its there. Why did you want to know if there was any fans of it? :P05:08
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smackpotatojust trying to follow an overclocking site and wondering if there was any interest05:09
Termanain overclocking the n8x0?05:09
smackpotatothe site is on the milestone its milestone-overclock on google code05:10
TermanaI think someone tried it in the past, and anything past what was already there didn't work05:11
smackpotatobut this guy has a novel aproch05:11
TermanaThe Milestone is a whole different beast to the n8x0. The Milestone uses OMAP3430, the same as the n900. The N8x0 is OMAP2..something (can't remember exact model)05:11
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smackpotatoright so the main problem is he gets some adresses from a function that isnt exported in diablo05:13
smackpotatothere are two structures that have to be hacked05:13
smackpotato i think we can get the adresses fom different functions05:14
GeneralAntillesAny big news items that I might've missed this past week any of you would like to see included in MWKN?05:15
smackpotatoanyway he did it with a lkm  not compiling a whole kernel05:15
smackpotatonot that ive ever compiled a kernel05:17
TermanaMWKN.. Maemo Weekly News05:22
TermanaOr should I say, Maemo Wee Kly News05:23
tripzeronews for me is, meego apps still don't work :(05:23
GeneralAntillesM(eeGo)aemo these days.05:24
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pupnik_oh lolltards05:28
pupnik_GeneralAntilles: they followed the hijackers05:28
pupnik_they knew it was going to happen05:29
pupnik_they were enablers, GeneralAntilles05:29
GeneralAntillespupnik_, context?05:29
pupnik_mossad made it happen05:29
TermanaHere we go, 9/11 theories.05:29
pupnik_i have researched it05:30
asjGeneralAntilles: he's been ranting and raving all morning about politics, just trolling05:30
TermanaGeneralAntilles, you know what I smell?05:30
pupnik_i am pupnik, i draw the threads together05:30
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TermanaGeneralAntilles, can you smell it too?05:30
GeneralAntillespupnik_, go sleep it off. :P05:30
pupnik_don't be stupid05:30
pupnik_it is so funny05:31
pupnik_i want people to lol05:31
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pupnik_look at other things05:32
TermanaWill the real pupnik please stand up, please stand up?05:32
pupnik_Termana: why do we support free software05:32
pupnik_so some shithead doesn't own our information05:33
pupnik_that is the point of linux05:34
pupnik_that is the point of foss05:34
pupnik_that is the point of meamo05:34
Termanapupnik_, Maybe if you made you point, I don't see whats funny yet05:34
Termanayour point*05:34
pupnik_nothing funny, cock-sucker05:34
TermanaWhere is Maemo making it so someone owns out information?05:34
pupnik_go be gay elsewhere05:35
pupnik_nice pooper action is to be had elsewhere05:35
GeneralAntillespupnik_, dude, lay off.05:36
TermanaYes, that is certainly how you discuss topics in a mature manner.05:36
pupnik_freedom is important05:36
pupnik_but i should stop with the insultsw05:36
pupnik_Jane harman05:37
pupnik_google that cunt05:37
pupnik_look GeneralAntilles dumbass05:38
pupnik_how do you focus on toys05:38
pupnik_when some fucktards start a nuclear war05:38
GeneralAntillesSssh, I'm finishing editorializing the news.05:38
pupnik_when the nukes fly05:39
GeneralAntillesRadioactive zombies? I'm in. :P05:39
pupnik_i'll fuckin punch your face05:39
pupnik_cause of your dumbassistan05:39
GeneralAntillesOK, can we go bar hopping after?05:39
pupnik_all this politics crap screws our good work05:40
pupnik_we have to all oppose it05:40
pupnik_it DIRECTLY affects maemo and meego05:41
pupnik_what those SHITHEADS do in Washingon D C05:41
pupnik_they are idiots05:41
pupnik_they are stupid05:42
pupnik_they are evil05:42
GeneralAntillesdon't have to convince me.05:42
pupnik_well ok05:43
pupnik_we're al on the same page then05:43
luke-jrhe's STILL trolling?05:43
pupnik_ask til harbaum what he thinks05:44
pupnik_see "collateral muder" from wikileaks05:44
pupnik_free software is inherently opposed to the empire05:48
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SpeedEvilpupnik. While many of us don't in principle disagree with this - it's perhaps not the ideal venue.05:49
pupnik_isn't it?05:49
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pupnik_the whole fucking point is to be able to communicate05:50
pupnik_without control05:50
pupnik_get it?05:51
GeneralAntillespupnik_, that's why we have different channels. Each with their own topic.05:52
SpeedEvilI fundamentally disagree.05:52
GeneralAntilles#maemo's isn't currently politics. :P05:52
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SpeedEvilMany useful discussion forums (not the internet sort) have been utterly destroyed by excessive off-topic content.05:52
pupnik_it would be so nice if we could ignore poitifs05:53
pupnik_but we can not05:53
SpeedEvilIf just one person is going on about it in a channel, we can quite easily.05:54
pupnik_ and every one of you who supports monopoly control over anything05:54
pupnik_well, you're shit05:54
microlithpupnik_: who, exactly, are you talking to?05:54
mortinimicrolith: himself.05:55
pupnik_people who support their state05:55
microlithpupnik_: I know, anarchy is where it's at05:55
Ken-YoungI support Iowa - The Tall Corn State!05:55
SpeedEvilMonopoly control sometimes works.05:55
pupnik_oh you missed the iraq WMD discussion05:55
TermanaHey DocScrutinizer05:55
microlithI did? I figured that was over and done with years ago/05:55
pupnik_the killing of 2 million people05:55
* GAN900 is done with mwkn and heading towards bed.05:56
SpeedEvilFor example, for radio spectrum, there is a strong argument for one control authority over fairly extended areas.05:56
* GAN900 hands the official #maemo Taser to DocScrutinizer.05:56
asjKen-Young: oh come on, there's only so much basketball one can take ;)05:56
TermanaGood night GAN90005:56
pupnik_there's no argument for killing al countries surrounding israel05:56
SpeedEvilnight GAN90005:56
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SpeedEvilpupnik_: Sure there is.05:56
pupnik_those people are insane05:56
Ken-Youngasj, We have the Butter Cow too!05:56
SpeedEvilDoesn't mean it's a good one.05:56
DocScrutinizernah, only a short insomnia phase that's hopefully over in 5 min05:57
microlithpupnik_: additionally, why rant in here?05:57
asjKen-Young: I thought that was Wisconsin...05:57
Ken-Youngasj, Nope!   It's our State Fair.05:57
GAN900Well then.05:57
asjKen-Young: I only know 1 think, happy cows from california ;)05:57
pupnik_because they are dedicated to trojaning your computer microlith05:57
* GAN900 declares anarchy.05:57
microlithis pupnik_ drunk or something?05:57
* DocScrutinizer declares +m05:57
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asjmicrolith: yes, or high or borth05:58
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pupnik_it affects maemo05:59
pupnik_bastards trojaning the planet05:59
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: please take it elsewhere06:00
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pupnik_totally topical DocScrutinizer but i'm done06:00
pupnik_jane harman06:01
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pupnik_sibel edmonds06:01
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer06:01
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +q pupnik_!*@*06:02
DocScrutinizerdunno jane harman or sibel edmonds. Don't think posting those names without further comment/context makes sense06:03
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DocScrutinizerping some sysop when you chilled down, pupnik_ :-D06:04
DocScrutinizererr chanop06:04
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SpeedEvilI see no reason why that's at all interesting smackpotato06:10
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DocScrutinizersounded interesting - thanks for preview, SpeedEvil06:11
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you still got that nice weather? here it's >24° even now :-o06:13
DocScrutinizer(which might be related to the strange things happening in this chan for last 45min)06:14
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asjI thought it was because the of the dutch loss06:16
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DocScrutinizerpupnik_ ist (as)06:20
DocScrutinizerlooks like that shouldn't matter too much06:21
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SpectalNewtopen source sortware means freedom from tyranny06:26
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Termanahere we go again06:26
SpectalNewtthat is the most on-topic thing ever said in #maemo06:26
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer06:26
DocScrutinizernow that's trolling06:27
smackpotatospees evil maybe its just interesting because of my lack of knowlage06:27
smackpotatoso u dont think it can be converted to diablo speed evil06:28
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +q *!*@*p54B2B08D*06:28
Termanasmackpotato, if you want to set off his highlights and get his attention, you'll need to use his nickname in full rather than split in two :P06:29
smackpotatoya how do i tab06:29
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: -q pupnik_!*@*06:29
Termanasmackpotato, the tab button on your keyboard. Unless your on an n90006:30
Termanaor n8x006:30
DocScrutinizersmackpotato: depends on client06:31
smackpotatoi set fn yen to tab but its not work here06:31
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smackpotatoit actually tabs06:32
DocScrutinizerno idea for pidgin. or xchat on N900 I use shift-space06:32
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DocScrutinizerby configuring nick-completion in settings/key-shortcuts06:33
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DocScrutinizererr for06:34
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smackpotato  thanks doc06:34
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Termanahey Macer06:47
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annach# Appears as ANNA06:47
annach(#G010E010M1) wazzup06:47
TermanaA Wild Anna Appears06:48
Termanaannach, your client is messing up your messages, just so you know06:48
annach(#G210E210M1) what?06:48
asj# Appears of OMG_MS_COMIC_CHAT_STILL_EXISTS????????/06:48
annach(#G1<:E;10M1) I am using MS COmic Chat06:48
annach(#G210E=10M1) it is a wonderful program06:48
annach(#G1<:E@10M1) I love it06:48
TermanaDELETE IT06:48
annach(#G210E476M1) !! IT RULES06:49
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer06:49
DocScrutinizerstart to get used to chanop BS nagging me while I should sleep06:49
annach(#G610E114M1) any other comicchat users here? :)06:50
DocScrutinizerannach: stop that!06:50
asjDocScrutinizer: your spidey sense will wake you06:50
annach(#G=10E210M1) stop what?06:50
TermanaDocScrutinizer, I am just going to go shoot myself is that okey? Call me back when this is finished06:50
DocScrutinizer  <annach> (#G=10E210M1) stop what?06:50
annach(#G1<:E;10M1) I am using comicchat, I am new to irc :]06:50
asjannach: you're client annoys every other irc user out there with tons of extra cruft around everything you say06:51
annach(#G1<:E=10M1) I am considering getting a n90006:51
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annach# Appears as ANNA06:51
annach(#G210E@10M1) :[06:51
annach(#G610E856M1) :(06:51
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DocScrutinizer(#G610E856M1) you'll earn a ban on very next line you post with that shit!06:52
TermanaOh dear, auto-rejoin06:52
annach(#G=10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G>10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G010E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G210E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G610E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G=10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G>10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G010E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G210E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G610E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G=10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G>10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G010E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G210E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G=10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G>10E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
annach(#G010E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b annach!*@*06:52
annach(#G210E476M1) NO BAN PLEASE06:52
*** annach was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)06:52
TermanaOh dear, I have no clue why that made me laugh06:52
asjpupnik seeks revenge with ms comic chat06:52
Termanaasj, lol06:53
SpectalNewti was not joking06:53
DocScrutinizer[Whois] annach ist ~jsmith@ (James Smith)06:53
SpeedEvilpupnik diddn't seem insane these past several months.06:53
DocScrutinizerno pupnik06:53
SpectalNewtbut i'm sorry06:53
SpectalNewtfree sofware, transparency.. no trojans06:54
TermanaSpectalNewt, at least you didn't use Comic Chat06:54
asjoh god, I'm sorry, I woke him up again06:54
SpectalNewtasj: if you disagree, feel free to refute it06:55
SpectalNewtpeople comtrolling their devices is a high goal06:55
DocScrutinizerpupnik, yes, that's why 80% have a maemo device06:56
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Termanawb smackpotato06:56
DocScrutinizererr the reason for 80% why they got a...06:57
SpectalNewti just don't know how to promote it06:57
DocScrutinizertake a nap, will give you new perspective06:57
SpectalNewtneed more power06:58
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infoboti guess xyawn is nap07:04
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* DocScrutinizer waves07:04
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: would you mind a temporary +o?07:04
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DocScrutinizermaybe channel need it07:04
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +o SpeedEvil07:05
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DocScrutinizerthanks :-)07:05
SpeedEvilHowever, I am going to sleep in 8 minutes +-5007:06
luke-jrwtf, T-Mobile wants ID and SSN for service?07:06
TermanaYou know the last time I saw that phrase used was in some code that allowed the russian programmer to kill the program, delete the program and the company's database07:06
Termanathe comment said:07:06
Termana//Maybe I be needing this07:06
DocScrutinizer/kick *07:07
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luke-jrTermana: what phrase?07:07
Termanaluke-jr, <DocScrutinizer> maybe channel need it07:08
luke-jri c07:08
TermanaDocScrutinizer, :P07:08
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luke-jrMaemo have any tool to micromanage what apps use web?07:08
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Termanaluke-jr, here in Australia you need a drivers license to sign up for prepaid.07:09
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luke-jrTermana: how lame is that?07:09
Termanaluke-jr, extremely considering its prepaid :\07:09
TermanaBut anyhow07:09
luke-jrbut anyhow, ID + SSN is basically handing over ones Identity07:10
* luke-jr doesn't get why prepaid always means more expensive07:10
SpeedEvilIsn't it illegal in the US to require SSN for ID for companies?07:10
luke-jrif I'm paying up front, I should get a better price if anything07:10
SpeedEvilI vaguely recalled that07:10
luke-jrSpeedEvil: yeah, but they still do07:10
Termanaluke-jr, apparently I knew what you were going to say. I said but anyhow and you went and said it07:10
SpeedEvilluke-jr: The idea is that if you buy a contract, you'll keep paying, not stop using it07:10
SpeedEvilIn theory at least07:11
luke-jrSpeedEvil: I'm comparing pre-paid vs month-by-month-contract07:11
SpeedEvilHence they want to encourage that07:11
SpeedEvilthey assume you won't get off your fat ass, and cancel it.07:11
luke-jrI really don't care which, but I *do* care about handing them my Identity on a silver platter.07:11
SpeedEvilAnd in most cases they're right.07:11
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luke-jrI also care about paying too much07:12
SpeedEvilno, that's for credit checks probably07:12
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luke-jrI don't really care what they want it for...07:12
SpeedEvilas you can run up large bulls on calls07:12
DocScrutinizerlaw enforcement07:12
luke-jrthey're welcome to put a block on any non-included calls07:12
SpeedEvilmaybe that too07:12
DocScrutinizerhomeland security07:13
SpeedEvilluke-jr: For obvious reasons, they don't want to do that.07:13
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: I'd rather my phone NOT be connected to me07:13
TermanaI don't really know what's wrong with giving them your identity. Why don't you want them to know who you are?07:13
luke-jrTermana: Identity as in, allowing them to steal it07:13
SpeedEvilTermana: Ask a few hundred thousand ipad owners.07:13
luke-jrTermana: I also don't want this corrupt State I live in the ability to track my movements07:14
TermanaDocScrutinizer, yes the US has those nice illegal homeland security checkpoints when you cross state lines07:14
luke-jrand the N900 just isn't free enough to assure me they can't07:14
SpeedEvilIt's lots worse than that07:14
luke-jrTermana: do they?07:14
luke-jrTermana: never seen those07:14
luke-jrbut then, it'd been almost 3 years since I was able to leave this state :(07:15
Termanaluke-jr, there a guy on youtube that crosses them purposely and refuses to answer their questions. Since its an illegal checkpoint they can't force him to.07:15
Termanaluke-jr, they ask if your a US citizen.07:15
Termanathere's a*07:15
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SpeedEvilThey are not illegal for non-US citezens IIRC07:16
SpeedEvilAt least some classes of them07:16
luke-jrSpeedEvil: I think that's a trick ;)07:16
luke-jrthey can't know if you're a citizen without stopping you illegally :p07:16
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TermanaSpeedEvil, hmm, that might be the case - but the impression I got was it was totally illegal as ruled by the Supreme Courts. But I'm in Australia and don't concern myself too much with the US' laws07:17
* luke-jr reconsiders buying data service07:17
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luke-jrseeing as T-Mob doesn't seem to have it for PAYG at all07:17
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SpeedEvilI bought 6 months data service from t-mobile for $30 prepaid07:18
SpeedEvilAnd that's the only payment on this SIM07:18
luke-jrSpeedEvil: how?07:19
SpeedEvilerr - boosters07:19
SpeedEvilyou're in the US I thought07:19
SpeedEvilah - sorry - confusing people again.07:21
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TermanaSpeedEvil, he is in the US07:21
SpeedEvilAnd one of the people I'm confusing is me.07:22
SpeedEvilIt's 5AM07:22
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TermanaSpeedEvil, just got up or haven't gone to bed?07:23
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: ...07:26
TermanaI hate timezones.07:27
TermanaLuckily my clock shows several locations and their times07:27
luke-jrTermana: use Tonal time07:27
TermanaSo I set it to Helsinki, Berlin, Warsaw, and Santa Clara (California)07:28
TermanaMostly places that are related to people involved with MeeGo :P07:28
TermanaHelsinki, Berlin and Warsaw create this little mickey mouse picture on the dots on the map above it :P07:28
luke-jrTermana: be glad you didn't live 1000 years ago07:29
luke-jror before whenever timezones were invented07:29
* slonopotamus tries to wake up07:29
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* luke-jr calls slonopotamus07:29
SpeedEvilI am trying to go to sleep07:31
SpeedEvilbut not feeling at all tired07:31
SpeedEvilSo I am currently doing pointless hacking.07:31
luke-jrSpeedEvil: where are you?07:32
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RST38hAnyone knows if .shlibs is autogenerated?07:44
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Stskeepsthink it is07:49
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RST38hhow do I force my package to depend on another package then?07:49
Stskeepsforcing is debian/control i believe? shlibs is autogenerated, but i'm not sure07:50
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RST38hlet us see if autobuilder eats my shlibs first...07:58
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RST38hWoman Imprisoned for Sending Hundreds of Threatening Texts to Herself08:00
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fluxI would say the title isn't factual.08:52
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asjprobably along the lines of "it was her phone account and her Ex bf had the phone"08:55
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SpeedEvilOR the texts were purported to come from someone else, and reported to police09:05
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Maceri guess for nfs retrans=5 should be good enough09:20
fralsJaffa: mwkn giving a 40409:21
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Jaffafrals: Indeed. Fixing now.09:23
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Jaffafrals: try now?09:23
fralsworks, cheers :)09:24
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tybolltfrals: Interesting fmms didn't work and then all of a sudden one day after an update (I think) it just works (tm), wtf? :)09:35
* tybollt believe there's hidden magic in fmms =)09:35
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SpeedEvilThere is a secret ingredient09:36
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fralstybollt: probably skit-bakom-spakarna... ;)09:40
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tybolltfrals: PEBKAC iow :)10:02
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fralstybollt: yeah, most likely ;)10:06
D-Iivil_WorkGood morning.10:06
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tybolltfrals: I'm trying to figure what it was si´nce I really didnt do anything to get it working... but meh :)10:07
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fralshow did it "not work"?10:07
tybolltit would never retrieve sms, it'd timeout or something. Now all of a sudden mms start trickling in all by themselves.10:08
tybolltfrals: mind I'm blonde and have blue eyes... ;)10:09
fralswhat connection mode are you using?10:09
tybolltconnection mode? (ie, probably whatever is default ;)10:09
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fralsin settings dialog at the bottom there is "connection mode", default is it doesnt connecut by itself usually which is why you are getting time outs10:12
fralsand i guess now you are online on the gprs connection so it can download them10:12
fralsor something along those lines10:12
tybolltso that's it then10:12
tybolltI was online via gprs at some point and so it could go about it itself10:13
tybolltthat'd explain it, thanks10:13
fralsif you change to havoc it will do it by magic always.. hopefully ;)10:14
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tybolltI don't like the implications of "havoc" in my phone.10:16
tybolltHildon causes quite enough havoc as is. :D10:16
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tybolltfrals: why is default not to do anything?10:17
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tybolltfrals: is it to preserve cost for people w/out uinlimited data plans or?10:18
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fralstybollt: because the other 2 modes arent completly reliable... :D10:18
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tybollt'reliable'? They may screw the dog and eat the baby?10:19
fralsyeah, in rare cases10:19
fralsthey work perfectly for me but since users are stupid :(10:19
tybolltPlease I know I'm stupid - no need to rub it in ;)10:22
tybolltanyway it's all good, thank you.10:22
tybollthope you're having fun in Suomi btw10:22
fralstis not bad here10:23
fralscept for all the finns ofc but not much to do about that10:23
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exmanhello, anybody knows to usage of ContextKit ?10:36
exmanI cannot set integer value using context-provide10:37
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Stskeepswazd: how would a Mer theming look like for meego? ;)10:57
wazdStskeeps: oh well, pretty much the same I hope :D10:57
wazdStskeeps: though template svgs are not that informative btw :)10:57
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wazdStskeeps: like, 10 identical squares, what the hell do they mean :)10:58
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Stskeepswazd: hehe10:59
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Stskeepsyou need to  combine with base theme probably10:59
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Venemo1w00t_: ping11:27
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w00t_what's up?11:31
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keriow00t_: the sky11:33
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psycho_oreosanyone know if the logins are unique?11:35
Venemo1w00t_: I've began to make some progress in the stuff11:35
Venemo1w00t_: can I pm you?11:35
w00t_psycho_oreos: certainly11:35
Venemo1kerio: that comment was just LOL.11:35
w00t_Venemo1: certainly11:35
* w00t_ desperately needs caffine11:35
* psycho_oreos thought w00t_ had actually explored that far11:36
Venemo1w00t_: Twinnings Earl Grey tea is my favourite source of caffeine11:36
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kerioVenemo1: earl grey ftfw11:40
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psycho_oreoscan someone please do this on their n900? grep login /etc/apt/auth11:42
SwedeMikepsycho_oreos: it says "login <something that looks like a password>11:43
SwedeMikeor actually a login account11:44
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psycho_oreosSwedeMike, can you confirm for me if the last two letters of your login ends with eP? (case insensitive)11:44
SwedeMikepsycho_oreos: no, EP11:44
Corsaccase insensitive :)11:44
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psycho_oreosSwedeMike, looks quite similar like my login I presume :) I was having thoughts the logins and passwords were unique per n90011:45
SwedeMikepsycho_oreos: mine starts with qa11:45
psycho_oreosSwedeMike, so does mine11:45
keriothere's no password except the one you set11:45
keriofor root11:46
keriouser can't login11:46
Corsackerio: unrelated11:46
psycho_oreoskerio, apparently these are for downloading from
Corsackerio: they're talking about apt http passwords11:46
kerioi see11:46
SwedeMikeit says "machine" so I guess it's for basic access11:46
keriowhy does it need a password?11:46
Corsacto restrict access to n900 owners11:46
psycho_oreosto prevent other unauthorised users from accessing it11:46
SwedeMikesecurity by obscurity I guess11:47
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psycho_oreosI don't know if its restricted to only n900, its mainly to prevent someone else thinking they can mirror that site without a key11:47
psycho_oreosor at least access it through their browser or otherwise11:47
psycho_oreosSwedeMike, thanks for your input :) I believe they're not unique judging by the output comparisons11:48
SwedeMikepsycho_oreos: no, it seems to be the same for everybody.11:49
psycho_oreosSwedeMike, hehe I'm no developer neither do I have access to nokia's repo so I can only assume from a user's point of view :) but now I know11:50
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Corsaceasy to compare, though:11:52
Corsac79922cea7cafdd8ac2  auth11:52
Corsacdf784bbf828b7779922cea7cafdd8ac2  auth11:52
Corsacjust md5sum your /etc/apt/auth, I bet you get the same hash11:52
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psycho_oreosdf784bbf828b7779922cea7cafdd8ac2  /etc/apt/auth11:53
psycho_oreosheh same11:53
Stskeepslo hrw11:53
Stskeepshow's ubuntu and linaro coming along?11:53
hrwplanned to hack modest a bit today but looked at source and decided against11:53
hrwStskeeps: slowly ahead11:53
* hrw wants 25°C11:54
Stskeepsindeed, too darn hot here in .pl11:55
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Stskeepsdays like these i am happy i work from home where business wear isn't needed11:55
psycho_oreosCorsac, though not a bad idea in a nutshell, but what if some nokia maemo developer decides to paste his md5sum with more than one machine access for example? or different credentials? I know its highly unlikely but :)11:55
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Corsacpsycho_oreos: then what?11:56
hrwStskeeps: indeed11:56
Corsacif his auth file is not pristine, then the hash will be different, but that's expected anyway11:57
psycho_oreosCorsac, I dunno, then it'll probably be harder to compare :)11:57
RST38hoh shit.11:57
Corsacpsycho_oreos: I don't think we really care :)11:57
RST38hOk, shorter version: (sorry)11:57
Corsacpsycho_oreos: the whole point was just checking with some random users if the content is the same without having to disclose the content11:57
Corsacwhich is a perfect use case for a hash :/11:57
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psycho_oreosyeah but what I was purely trying to compare to see if logins were the same, password would most likely be the same anyway. Mainly from those who aren't part of Nokia maemo development project or has some highly restricted access :)11:58
psycho_oreosit is unless if the random user happens to be some dev is what I'm pointing merely at11:58
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psycho_oreosfrom time to time I do see users from connecting in :)11:59
Stskeepsthere's several nokians in here, community members like any other :P11:59
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* psycho_oreos shrugs, has a belief that those connecting from may also be maemo dev teams12:01
psycho_oreosprobably just being paranoid :)12:01
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tobis87does anyone know, how i can set the mtu for wlan0 permanently?12:16
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Shapeshifteroh lol. I shouldn't have used "maemo" in the name of the game I wrote xD12:22
Shapeshifterhow dumb.12:22
Shapeshifterstupid trademarking business...12:22
MohammadAG51MaeReactor :P12:23
MohammadAG51you can always ask for it to be taken down12:23
RST38hYou can always use Maimo12:23
Rabidusor MyMo12:24
MohammadAG51or as someone read it once, my emo12:24
CorsacMa & Mo12:24
Shapeshifterwell it's stupid anyway because it's not even maemo-specific.12:24
Shapeshifternow I actually have to think of a name ...12:25
Corsacand a logo12:25
Shapeshifteryet simple enough.12:26
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keriodrop the py12:26
keriousers won't care about the language you used12:27
Shapeshifterno. if I do, it could be anything12:27
tobis87i already dumped /system/osso/connectivity with gconftool-2, but there is no option to set the mtu. maybe adding ifconfig wlan0 mtu 1492 to a script in /etc/udhcpc helps, but i don't know.12:27
Shapeshifter"Quick Reaction"12:27
MohammadAG51just use MaeReactor12:28
ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: well it runs on any linux. and on any portable linux device it would be well usable. even supports window resizing. so it's really not just for maemo.12:28
kerioin two hours of usage, the battery dropped from almost full to slightly less than half12:28
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keriois that normal?12:28
psycho_oreostobis87, you could probably try putting it in a new file under: /etc/network/if-up.d12:29
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tobis87psycho_oreos: yes, but would this not work only with a static network? i don't know how the n900 connects to the wlan, i haven't seen wpa_supplicant on the device.12:32
psycho_oreostobis87, I believe the scripts lying in that directory acts independently from wpa_supplicant12:33
Shapeshifterhow about "Vencidas". It's mexican for "arm wrestling"12:33
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* psycho_oreos doesn't know what the program is for lol12:35
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tobis87psycho_oreos: so you think a 'post-up ifconfig wlan0 mtu 1492' should do the trick?12:36
psycho_oreostobis87, using that location that I said before? probably12:36
psycho_oreospretty sure you can check mtu after its up12:37
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psycho_oreosthough its pretty redundant, probably a better idea is to place it into pre-up12:38
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tobis87psycho_oreos: so if i add a file in /etc/network/if-pre-up.d/, does it only have to contain #!/bin/sh \ ifconfig wlan0 mtu 1492?12:42
psycho_oreostobis87, I suppose, and probably a good idea to name it in the format similar to others12:44
ShapeshifterTablet Reactor?12:44
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alteregoSo, what shall we do today folks? :)12:52
Stskeepsi'm debugging connman12:53
alteregoHow does connman rate against netman? iyo?12:53
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Stskeepsboth are buggy piece of shits12:53
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alteregoSeems to me they both do the same job, just wondering if one was technically better than the other.12:54
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MacerStskeeps: so what has happened to active dev for the n8x0?12:54
alteregoAnd for what reasons. Does connman still use if-up/down?12:55
StskeepsMacer: there's people doing android and i am doing dev for n8x0 this summer12:55
Macerah. i see. mer dev or meego dev?12:55
Stskeepsmeego for n8x0, mer's dead12:55
* Stskeeps tries to find a nice soundless media centre12:56
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Macerdoes meego even have a ui yet?12:56
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Macerhm. i didnt see any screen shots on or whatever it was12:57
Stskeepsthis is development code, but - ignore the artwork, it's all theme-able12:57
alteregoWhat UX are you planning for the N8x0 adaptation?12:57
Stskeepsalterego: well, xfce4 initially, and an attempt at seeing how bad handset UX runs on there in software rendering mode12:57
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Stskeeps(i've had the UI up in the past, before w00t's software rendering patches making some things faster)12:57
alteregoHrm, I would have thought, netbook or tablet would be better. No way of using GLES then? Even with the "opened" driver from TI?12:58
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Stskeepsnetbook isn't built for ARM and tablet i don't have access to12:58
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MacerStskeeps: what is that running on?12:59
kerioreally, my battery is almost dead and it's just three hours of usage12:59
StskeepsMacer: aava mobile12:59
Macerthat is pretty nice12:59
Macerawesome ui12:59
Stskeepsyeah, + libmeegotouch12:59
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KhertanHello !13:00
Macerhow is n900 dev for it going?13:00
Macerhow is n900 dev for it going?13:01
Stskeepsquite well13:01
Macercan i install on the n900 now13:01
Stskeepsyes, but you have to build an image manually13:01
Macerand have it be functional?13:01
Stskeepsand wifi is unstable (working on that atm)13:01
Macerwhat doesnt work?13:01
Stskeepssomeone made a n900 video, go see13:01
Maceri was just curious what hw wasnt working13:01
Khertanand building an image will probably install conflicting pacakge on your Ubuntu 10.0413:01
Macerit looks very nice tho13:02
keriois mobile data *that* heavy on the battery?13:02
Macerthe portrait mode is a huge plus ;)13:02
keriomy laptop lasts longer13:02
Macerif it keeps the debianish env then im sold13:02
KhertanPortrait mode is useless13:02
alteregoMacer: the UX build for N900 is so far from stable right now, however, it's probably good enough for developing apps.13:02
KhertanPython will be a plus !13:02
Maceralterego: ah ok13:03
alteregoStskeeps: is their a tut on building for qemu N900 ?13:03
Maceralterego: it is something to look forward to13:03
Stskeepsalterego: not yet. give fabo in #meego-arm a hand if you want to be at the front line13:03
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Khertanpy is still not available for meego ...  i ll like to test KhtEditor on Meego Netbook ... but without pyqt :(13:03
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Macerwell. i hope it goes well13:05
alteregoStskeeps: thanks.13:05
Macerit looks amazing13:05
Macerpick a better mascot tho13:05
Macerthat thing looks like a pair of wannabe android robots13:05
Stskeepsit's for theming anyway13:06
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alteregoAlso, on a completely unrelated note, how precise would capacitive be with a metal stylus? Obviously still don't get pressure sensitivity though ...13:06
Weissalterego: AIUI, the stylus has to be large - about as large as a finger13:06
X-FadeCapacitive isn't made for being precise though.13:07
nidOyep, you cant get a pinpoint stylus for capacitive so precision is always going to be a struggle13:07
Macerwell... i saw the 45sec N900 meego vid13:07
Macerlooks good13:07
Macercant wait until it is in the beta phases13:07
alteregoYeah, that's what I thought.13:08
jacekowskiwell capacitive can be precise13:08
jacekowskiatmel had video about their qtouch stuff13:08
jacekowskiand they apparently can get precision same as resistive13:08
jacekowski( touchpads in laptops are capacitive )13:09
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ShapeshifterQuick'n'Nimble? ._.13:10
X-Fadejacekowski: Although with touchpads you don't click on a specific place.13:11
Corsacdon't you?13:11
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jacekowskiwell, but if you take a look at data from touchpad13:11
X-FadeIt is more about relative movement there?13:11
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jacekowskitouchpads give you absolute data13:11
jacekowskiand drivers translate it into movments13:12
X-FadeYes, but your mouse doesn't jump to a position.13:12
jacekowskido you have laptop with linux and touchpad/13:12
ShapeshifterQuick'n'Nimble doesn't sound too bad for a game, does it?13:13
nidOah, Shapeshifter13:13
tybolltShapeshifter: passes _my_ euphemism parser ;)13:14
nidOhad a marathon gaming session with the girlfriend last night, got a little feedback if you're interested13:14
ShapeshifternidO: sure13:14
nidOfrom a pure QA point of view, as you've seen the program needs renaming and it really needs a way to exit the game without manually killing the task13:15
ShapeshifternidO: press Q13:15
nidOalso, the desktop launcher for it is currently called "MaemoReactor.png" - could do without having an image extension in the name13:15
Shapeshifterpress R to return to menu. I guess I'll need to make that more clear. And I'll add an about box and quit button to the main menu.13:15
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ShapeshifternidO: yep, noticed that13:16
nidOah okay didnt know it was a keypress, but yeah on that note some kind of basic instructions/help built into the game might be quite handy13:16
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Khertan~seen conny13:16
infobotconny <> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 11d 12h 38m 41s ago, saying: 'TSCHAKeee2: No :)'.13:16
nidOalso, my girlfriend moaned that the countdown to zero minigame fails you if you press before it reaches zero and the other person wins regardless, maybe that should wait for both players to press then give the win to the person whos closes to 0?13:17
crashanddieo/ Khertan!13:17
crashanddieKhertan: ca f'sait un bail!13:17
ShapeshifternidO: mh, the opponent always gets a point if you fail to be right. I could however do it as a penalty (-1 point for you) instead of +1 for the opponent13:17
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nidOunlike the "press once the icon reaches a certain size" which fails you if you press before it gets to that size which is fine as that's how it's worded, the countdown to zero wording suggests whoever's closest should win13:18
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ShapeshifternidO: I'll see what I can do about that13:19
ShapeshifternidO: do you think "Quick'n'Nimble" would fit the game? :|13:19
nidOShe also suggested that maybe the number of games you can select should go up in 2's rather than 1's, so you can only play an odd number of games and remove the possibility of drawing13:20
nidOyeah that seems like a decent name :p13:20
ShapeshifternidO: ah, good idea.13:20
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ShapeshifterOr should it be "Reaction face-off"?13:29
Shapeshifterquick'n'nimble sounds very single-player jump'n'run / jack-be-nimble13:29
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nidOsomething in the title giving it a clue to being a 2-player game might be good yeah13:31
Shapeshifterthere will be a 3- and 4-player option somewhere in the future btw13:33
DocScrutinizergreetings from grill13:35
Stskeepsmm, bbq13:35
DocScrutinizerwhoever wants me medium, you're late13:36
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tobis87psycho_oreos: thank you for your help: #/bin/sh \ ifconfig | grep -q MTU:1492 || status=$? \ if [ $status -ne 0 ]; then \ ifconfig wlan0 mtu 1492\ fi \ exit 0 <- It does even work if i reconnect to the wlan, any suggestion how i can test only for the wlan0 mtu?13:39
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psycho_oreostobis87, make sure the correct mode flags are set for that file13:42
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tobis87psycho_oreos: yes i already did this (chmod +x), but is it possible to check only for the wlan0 entry?13:46
psycho_oreostobis87, what do you mean check for wlan0 entry? you mean via ifconfig?13:47
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tobis87psycho_oreos: yes. maybe i'm paranoid.13:48
psycho_oreostobis87, well you can just ifconfig wlan0, and to make it even more specific I suppose you can incorporate | grep MTU13:49
smackpotatohi doc im going to ask som more people about the overclocking module i was going on about last night13:49
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DocScrutinizerifconfig wlan0 | grep...13:50
tobis87ah ok13:50
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psycho_oreosI personally hardly use the lettering when chmodding unless I set the setuid bit on. I mostly set the modes of the files via the octal format, and I can see a file under one of those network scripts directory has modes 755 on it13:52
tobis87yes, i also do use 644 a lot, but i find it hard to remember the actual meaning, so +x is easier me.13:53
DocScrutinizeroctal form has only absolute setting, symbolic chmod allows adding/resetting particular bits13:54
DocScrutinizerchmod g+x blah*13:54
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psycho_oreosg+x looks like it would set the group bit to have execute perms13:55
DocScrutinizeractual meaning is simple once you know rwx13:55
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Stskeepsmorn achipa13:55
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smackpotatoi like 777 its a toy13:56
achipamorn, err... 'noon stskeeps :)13:56
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psycho_oreos777 = slut ;)13:58
psycho_oreoserr 0777 (with setuid as 0) ;13:58
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Termanasudo su ; chown root:root executable ; chmod a=rwxs executable ; exit ; ./executable ; echo MAWAHAHAHA14:01
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DocScrutinizerTermana: to hot??14:14
DocScrutinizerscp /dev/urandom root@termana:/dev/mem14:15
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DocScrutinizerbtw: (symbolic vs numeric perm) from man chmod: >> You  can       set  or  clear  the  bits  with  symbolic  modes like u+s and g-s, and you can set (but not clear) the bits with a       numeric mode.<<14:16
DocScrutinizer*but not clear*14:16
DocScrutinizerfunny that symbolic is more mighty than octal form of syntax, isn't it?14:18
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DocScrutinizerand I never stop to learn:  chmod g=u  :-)14:19
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DocScrutinizerTermana: sudo su works on *your* maemo?14:21
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kerio<Lord-Data> chmod 777 is the kinda thing i do on my own personal box when i cant be fucked figureing out what the perm's SHOULD be14:22
kerio<Lord-Data> which is, sadly, most of the time14:22
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mirf777 ftw14:23
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DocScrutinizerhope he's doing that on ~/.ssh14:23
DocScrutinizerwill earn him the perms he's entitled to14:23
keriossh complains if you do that, right?14:24
DocScrutinizerssh will kick your ass on next login when you do that14:24
keriois there a --stfu-you-bitch option?14:25
DocScrutinizer.ssh must NOT be world r/w'able14:25
keriowhat if i really, really, really want it to be world rwable?14:25
DocScrutinizerbtw for ssh not even $HOME must be14:25
DocScrutinizerthen stfu and forget ssh :-P14:26
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DocScrutinizeror create a hardlink?14:26
DocScrutinizerln .ssh .ssh-fsckdup14:26
DocScrutinizerchmod a+rwx .ssh-f*14:27
mgedminyou can't hardlink directories on linux14:27
mgedmin(and most other os'es)14:27
DocScrutinizerdamn, you got me14:27
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alteregoDamnit, can't inherit from two QObjects ..14:28
alteregoComposition it is ..14:28
DocScrutinizermgedmin: see how useless that idea of kerio is? :-P I never needed the non-working supposed solution to this made-up problem, in >15y of unix14:29
Termana<DocScrutinizer> scp /dev/urandom root@termana:/dev/mem - heh :P cat /dev/random > /dev/audio14:30
TermanaThough that doesn't work on Ubuntu 9.10 for some reason14:30
kerioTermana: /dev/urandom14:31
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keriodoesn't block14:31
TermanaDocScrutinizer, also, no it doesn't but I'm sure I could make it (sudo su)14:31
DocScrutinizerTermana: happens on my fsckng PA poisoned desktop system on every boot :-P14:31
Termanakerio, /dev/urandom doesn't work either14:31
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Termanakerio, pulseaudio14:31
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keriopulseaudio sucks balls14:31
TermanaDocScrutinizer, :P14:31
kerioALSA FTW14:31
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mirfwhat's n900 using by default?  pulseaudio?14:34
kerioalsa, i think14:34
DocScrutinizeryes >:-(14:34
DocScrutinizerPA !§"$§$ŋßßŋŋł14:34
kerioyou might as well install jack then14:35
mirfyeah I installed jack14:35
mirfdidn't get it to run yet14:35
keriowho the hell uses an audio rerouting daemon on a mini computer14:35
kerioyeah :/14:35
mirfI think puredata could be v nice on n90014:35
mirfor even chuck14:35
DocScrutinizerkerio: PA with ALSA hw audio sink14:36
mirftouch screen, accelerometer and proximity sensor interfaces14:36
mirffun stuff14:36
DocScrutinizermirf: ???14:37
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keriowhy pulse? :(14:39
mgedminkerio, there was a presentation about that14:39
* DocScrutinizer really wonder WTH causes 30s lags on 1. keystroke in a ssh session to N900 (over WLAN) that's been idle for some hours14:39
mgedmindon't remember where, though14:39
smackpotatoanother random question - what is involved in converting a makefile from one used on a cross compiler to one thats used on a the maemo sdk14:40
mgedminpulse lets nokia do things like pause all streams when you get a phone call14:40
mgedminswitch between speakers and bluetooth seamlessly14:40
DocScrutinizermgedmin: the 8pages paper of Nokia about audio?14:40
mgedminnot sure; I think I'm remembering a pdf from guadec or ...14:41
CorsacDocScrutinizer: wlan power management?14:41
DocScrutinizerCorsac: prolly14:41
smackpotatothere are just to many options on linux when it comes to audio and a lot of them dont work14:41
DocScrutinizermgedmin: stop all strams? W*T*F???14:41
DocScrutinizerstreams even14:41
Corsacanyway, even with moderate load, I often have the phone ringing way after the vibrator is on14:41
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Corsaclike, on receiving a sms, the ring goes after the vibrator goes *off*14:42
smackpotatothats a feature corsac14:42
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smackpotatofor when your at the opera14:42
keriobtw, nobody answered me before - is three hours of usage, with mobile data on, enough to drain the majority of the battery for you?14:42
Corsackerio: with or without IM account connected?14:42
DocScrutinizerkerio: depends, but yes, possible14:43
kerioi was in a zone with bad coverage14:43
kerioCorsac: IM connected, xchat open14:43
DocScrutinizerkerio: then for sure14:43
DocScrutinizerkerio: at least on 3G14:43
kerioyeah, 3g14:43
DocScrutinizerkerio: use 2G14:44
keriomy operator uses 3g only14:44
Corsackerio: that's why14:44
CorsacIM is a battery hog14:44
DocScrutinizer3G is14:44
kerio2g is roaming14:44
Corsacbasically it won't let the device sleep14:44
kerioand i'd have to pay for data14:44
CorsacDocScrutinizer: even on wifi14:44
DocScrutinizerevery single byte causes 30s of TX activity14:44
kerioDocScrutinizer: who cares, there's more than a single byte in 30 seconds14:45
kerioxchat was open14:45
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: have you tried tcpdump?14:45
DocScrutinizernot on N900, but on OM14:45
Termanakerio, the less signal you have, the more power the 3G modem needs to draw14:45
kerioso it's the combination IM, 3g, bad coverage?14:45
DocScrutinizerkerio: exactly14:46
Corsacand poor battery too14:46
keriook, plan B14:46
kerioi need a way to shield my laptop from the sand14:46
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Termanathats a terrible idea14:46
* mgedmin suspects xchat is considerably worse than IM for battery life14:46
DocScrutinizeron good coverage, GPRS, and IRC with low traffic I got >16h on a Openmoko FR14:46
smackpotatomove to the rain forest14:46
DocScrutinizermgedmin: depends14:46
mgedminalthough I tend to lump IRC with high traffic and IM with low traffic14:47
RST38hit is not that bad14:47
Corsacmgedmin: never tried xchat, but trying with/without IM and comparing with battery eye is pretty much self-explanatory14:47
RST38hstill has a few timers of course, but those tick slowly now14:47
Corsacmgedmin: even completely idle IM14:47
mgedminCorsac, can you quantify that somehow?14:47
DocScrutinizermgedmin: on those tests (above^^) I sent device to suspend after each packet immediately, and I've observed minutes of sleep periods14:47
DocScrutinizeron IRC14:47
Corsacmgedmin: I guess the keepalive stuff between the client and the server is the problem14:48
mgedminmy n900 died yesterday in less than 12 hours without my using it...14:48
keriosmackpotato: what?14:48
Corsacmgedmin: I could make screenshots14:48
Corsacof battery-eye14:48
DocScrutinizerfsck battery-eye14:48
Corsacor extract some logs14:48
mgedminCorsac, just a rough estimate (e.g. 3 hours longer without IM?)14:48
Corsacfrom its data store14:48
smackpotatomove to the rainforest to protect your notebook from sand14:48
DocScrutinizerand "idle" means exactly nuttin on IM/IRC14:48
CorsacDocScrutinizer: I mean, without any conversation14:49
DocScrutinizeras there are pings, joins/quits and whatnot14:49
Corsacmgedmin: I would have to redo the tests14:49
mgedminyou don't remember?14:49
kerioDocScrutinizer: freerunner or n900?14:49
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DocScrutinizerkerio: UH?14:49
smackpotatonevermid i didnt get sleep14:49
kerioDocScrutinizer: what do you like best?14:49
DocScrutinizerN900 for sure14:50
keriowait, no 3g on the freerunner?14:50
Corsacmgedmin: basically with IM on, on 3g, it barely lasted 12h, currently I don't use IM and it's at 50% after 12h but I'm not always 3g-connected so the comparison doesn't stand14:50
DocScrutinizer3G, decent gfx-engine, decent hw-kbd...14:50
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mgedminCorsac, thanks14:50
mgedminhey, all my desktop widgets disappeared14:51
mgedmindid something crash?14:51
mgedmincorrection: all 3rd-party desktop widgets are gone14:52
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D-Iivil_Workmgedmin, sounds like hildon-home crahsed and that makes all python widgets to disappear.14:53
D-Iivil_Workmgedmin, you need to manually re-add them, but good thing is that they will most likely be placed to the position they were before disappearing.14:53
DocScrutinizerkerio: FR has a Samsung 2442 CPU/SoC which doesn't know the smart zeroclock functions of OMAP. So only chance is to send device to suspend, to save some power :-/14:53
jacekowskii'm just wondering if it would be possible to block all wakeups except required ones14:54
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: sure, if you know which are the "required ones" :-P14:54
jacekowskiexternal ones + rtc14:55
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: that's the whole trick14:55
jacekowskiso it would keep irc connection going14:55
DocScrutinizerno it wouldn't14:55
jacekowskiwhy it wouldn't?14:55
DocScrutinizerclient need to actively keep-alive ping server14:56
* mgedmin doesnt' remember what widgets he had -- but maybe that's ok?14:56
jacekowskinot really14:56
kerioDocScrutinizer: i use a bouncer14:56
jacekowskiserver pings client14:56
jacekowskievery 60 s14:56
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yes, but that *may* drop14:56
D-Iivil_Workmgedmin, just start adding the widgets back to desktop from desktop editing mode, maybe you'll recall them when you see them on the list.14:56
jacekowskii think on freenode it's 12014:56
jacekowskiso server pings14:56
jacekowskiphone wake ups14:57
jacekowskisends a pong14:57
mgedminor I could see this as an opportunity to declutter my desktop and perhaps improve battery life14:57
jacekowskiand goes back to sleep14:57
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jacekowskiand some way of handling runaway processes14:57
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you'll drop out of irc more often than you think14:57
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jacekowskiso if something uses too much cpu it would get SIGSTOPped during sleep14:58
MacerSunOS alicia 5.11 snv_134 i86pc i386 i86pc14:58
jacekowskiso runaway process wouldn't drain a battery14:58
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Macerfinally updated14:58
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: mhm, like watching videos?14:58
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: during sleep14:58
alteregoIs it possible to get the N900's usb0 iface to always use the same mac?14:59
jacekowskialterego: yep14:59
alteregoPresumably somewhere in udev or something?14:59
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: how should device know you're asleep ? ;-P14:59
jacekowskiudev has fuck all to do with it14:59
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: not when i'm sleepin14:59
alteregojacekowski: wish to enlighten me? :)14:59
jacekowskiwhen phone is sleeping14:59
jacekowskialterego: RTFM14:59
kerioalterego: i'll bring up the wiki article14:59
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jacekowskialterego: it's in Documentation/14:59
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Sleep pattern analyzer app ;)15:00
keriowait, not that15:00
jacekowskikerio: not there15:00
alteregoIt just works really nicely with ubuntu/gnome/network-manager when the MAC is known :)15:00
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: yep :-D15:00
jacekowskialterego: that's not going to help15:00
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keriothere was another article15:00
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DocScrutinizerirssi, knew it15:00
X-FadeAlso no accelerometer changes for a longer period of time gives a clue. ;)15:00
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alteregoAh, okay. So I have to change /etc/network/interfaces and specify the hardware address myself to keep it consistent across reboots?15:01
kerioecho options g_nokia host_addr=00:11:22:33:44:55 > /etc/modprobe.d/g_nokia15:01
kerioyou should use 02 though15:01
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keriofor "manually administered mac address"15:01
keriosince it's fake15:01
alteregoThanks alot.15:01
DocScrutinizersame on FR :-P15:02
alteregoI've got a MAC generator I use for VMs, so that's fine :)15:02
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jacekowskii don't think it's g_nokia15:02
jacekowskimore like g_ether15:02
kerioworks here15:02
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: :-P15:02
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Macerno osx info on usb networking?15:02
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kerioMacer: as usual, it "just works"15:03
kerioset the MAC to a fixed address or it'll create a new interface every time you plug it in15:03
DocScrutinizerkerio: BIG FUN15:03
DocScrutinizerkerio: with ssh15:03
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DocScrutinizerkerio: and scripts15:03
Maceri just wifi tether it15:03
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keriotapping mobilehotspot is easier, yeah15:04
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alteregokerio: it's not everytime it's plugged in, it's every reboot.15:04
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Macerg1 actually did usb tethering quite effortlessly15:04
alteregoActually it might be ifup/down cycle ..15:04
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alteregoI can't remember if I actually tried that ..15:04
DocScrutinizeralterego: see15:04
jacekowskidid i mention how much i hate wireless?15:04
DocScrutinizeralterego: every modprobe ?15:05
keriowireless is awesome!15:05
alteregoDocScrutinizer: yeah, that might be the case.15:05
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jacekowskikerio: it's awesomly slow15:06
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keriothe n900 needed gigE15:06
jacekowskiwell, usb networking can do 300Mbits15:06
kerioit defaults to 10mbps here15:06
TermanaDocScrutinizer, This (what I'm about to say) sounds like a security flaw to me:15:07
jacekowskiwell negotiates at 425Mbits15:07
DocScrutinizeron OM iirc we had all three variants: iface USB0 nad ssh-knownhosts changing each time you plug another device, new interface for every device, and even new MAC on every plugin15:07
jacekowskiTermana: usb networking is unsupported15:07
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kerioalso, i think you need to enable it manually15:08
TermanaDocScrutinizer, say I have an executable and i set the setuid bit with chmod and made it owned by root:root. Then I transfer that to another system with the permissions retained. Isn't that going to allow me to make my executable root on an unknown system? Or do filesystem drop the setuid bit when transfering? (unless your root on the new system)15:09
kerioTermana: can't drop something as root unless you're root15:09
keriowell, except with nfs15:09
b-man~ping MohammadAG5115:09
infobotpong MohammadAG5115:09
DocScrutinizerTermana: the foreign system should drop user/owner15:09
keriobut that implies all the machines are secured15:09
jacekowskiTermana: well, you would have to be a root to create that file on different fs as root15:09
jacekowskiTermana: and any modification to file drop setuid bit automaticaly anyways15:10
Termanakerio, so the new system won't let me transfer it, but what if I just execute it on my flash drive formatted as ext315:10
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jacekowskiTermana: well, only root can mount15:10
DocScrutinizermount is (8)15:10
kerioTermana: it's the sysadmin's fault for not specifying nosuid in the automounter15:10
kerionoexec uid=nobody gid=nobody15:11
DocScrutinizerkerio just passed LP115:11
Termanakerio, ah right, so having automount add on the noexec option would stop that? (flash drive scenario)15:11
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kerioi read a nice series of articles on "hardening linux" on an italian linux magazine15:12
kerio(printed on paper! :o )15:12
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DocScrutinizerTermana: a sane automounter is configured so it won't let you execute files from the mounted media, and system won't let you copy a root-owned file to an executable place15:13
keriomonolithic kernel, drop capabilities asap, anywhere the user can write mounted as noexec, no useless things *anywhere*, and grsecurity15:14
kerio(it was old)15:14
DocScrutinizerwtf grsecurity?15:14
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TermanaDocScrutinizer, kernel patch - web servers use it sometimes I believe15:15
TermanaSomeone did it on an n900 though15:15
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kerioooh how do i change my hostname?15:16
DocScrutinizerecho kdjxukjnqjkh >/etc/hostname ?15:16
Corsacand /etc/hosts15:17
TermanaCorsac, thats the one. I believe its done by Tony Lindgren whos apart of linux-omap AFAIK15:17
kerioCorsac: it's not really needed on n90015:17
Corsacthis one is made by Arnaud Ébalard15:17
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Termanaeh. Oh well, I thought Tony did most of the pages on there.15:18
Treibholzis there an alternative to zoutube?15:18
* DocScrutinizer wonders if Intel or wetware processor will fry first..... WAAAAAH15:18
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Treibholzzoutube is not really useable.15:19
CorsacTermana: the whole stuff is Arnaud's15:19
Treibholzthose stupid iPhone-users always laugh at me, when I can't watch a video, but they can.15:20
CorsacTreibholz: tell them you have flash? :/15:21
TreibholzCorsac: I don't want flash!15:21
TermanaCorsac, that won't work. They are under the mind control of Jobs.15:21
Treibholzflash is only usefull for ads15:21
Treibholzand the n900 is to slow to play youtube-videos with the flash-player.15:22
TermanaTreibholz, HTML5 youtube videos?15:22
* DocScrutinizer wanders off to change wetware cooling system to liquid protiumdioxide15:22
jogaI think youtube works's just a bit choppy when it's buffering15:22
TreibholzTermana: microb has a h264-codec?15:22
Kegetysyoutube flash works fine for me15:23
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TermanaTreibholz, I don't know. Try it. And then try Firefox Mobile15:23
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Treibholzanyway, a useable youtube-application would really be nice.15:23
TreibholzTermana: and not all videos work with HTML5.15:24
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keriothe new youtube mobile looks awesome15:25
Treibholzgenerally: a youtube-app for netbooks would be cool, too.15:25
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Treibholzflash is so slow on linux, I can't watch the videos in the browser on my netbook.15:26
Treibholzwhat I want to say is: Flash is bullshit.15:26
Treibholzand nobody needs it.15:26
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keriogo buy an ipad then15:27
Treibholzkerio: lacks a keyboard. :-)15:27
Macerdoesnt youtube stream mo4 as well?15:27
Maceri figure there is some toutube app out there15:28
TreibholzMacer: I can watch the videos with mplayer quite well, but c&p of the URL in the terminal is not really comfortable,15:28
Maceri mean another app15:28
Macerlike a front end for it15:29
Macerthere has to be one out there15:29
KegetysI find the "XL" youtube interface to be better on the n900 than the "mobile" one15:29
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evilbitso, I'm thinking about buying a n900 but wanted to ask if it has a full featured calendar app (i need one for work). There don't seem to be any good choices for the n810 that will also use syncevolution15:32
Stskeepscalendar is ermm... interesting15:32
Treibholzthe calendar has a lot of potential115:32
kerioKegetys: does it work nicely?15:32
ShapeshifternidO: do you find it weird, or did you even notice that the gems are all facing one way? I though maybe I should rotate them a random amount (like the smilies)...15:32
Kegetyskerio: works for me, although I dont really need youtube that often on it so I haven't used it that much15:33
evilbitheh, i guess i'm wondering if it's worth it to plop down $400/USD if the calendar is "interesting" lol15:33
nidOShapeshifter: wasnt really a problem for me, you could randomise their orientation but that basically only affects the triangle diamond thing anyway doesnt it, the others are symmetyrical?15:33
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ShapeshifternidO: indeed15:34
evilbitI've got a htc evo for testing right now... but I hate all of the "google-isms" required15:34
ShapeshifternidO: I added a new game and now I also have 7 fruit symbols. I though may I'll randomize the appearance of either gems or fruits for the games that use images.15:34
Shapeshifterfor added diversity15:34
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Corsacevilbit: if you're really after a full featured calendar, I don't think it'll fit15:35
Shapeshifterbut fruit would definitely need rotating else they would all look kinda wrong15:35
evilbitCorsac: ok, thanks. :-)15:35
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achipaX-Fade: ping15:42
X-Fadeachipa: pong15:44
achipagah... just sent a mail...15:44
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achipaX-Fade: anyway, it seems mail notifications for super-tester promotions are not being sent15:44
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achipaX-Fade: and that's prolly also the reason people are not promoting.. they are not aware they can...15:45
X-Fadeachipa: Ah, I see the issue in the code.15:46
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keriodo you guys use catorise or something like that?15:53
keriodoes it work?15:53
alteregoYes, and does for me.15:53
psycho_oreosI do, it works for most cases, at least it keeps things tidy in whatever way it suits catorise15:53
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Corsacwas there a maemo4 app which would display photos from the network using upnp or something like that?15:57
Corsac(to do some kind of digiframe stuff)15:58
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DocScrutinizerkerio: AppMeFo15:58
Corsacor maybe even an integrated app which would do rss reader, weather station, etc.15:58
DocScrutinizerkerio: WFM like a charm. Catorize is broken by design15:59
D-Iivil_WorkDocScrutinizer, I'd be happy to have an app that would make possible to search apps using hw keyboard just like we can do with contacts. I mean straight from the desktop.15:59
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D-Iivil_WorkWould make launching apps very intuitive and fast.15:59
DocScrutinizerD-Iivil_Work: uhmm, yes. Dunno, doesn't PR1.2 have that?16:00
D-Iivil_WorkDocScrutinizer, no it does not.16:00
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D-Iivil_WorkDocScrutinizer, allthough some websites did claim it does.16:00
kerioDocScrutinizer: wfm?16:00
DocScrutinizerD-Iivil_Work: I mean, they even fscked up HAM to implement that general UI design16:00
DocScrutinizer~wtf wfm16:01
infobotWFM: works for me16:01
kerioi see16:01
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psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, you meant ApMeFo?16:02
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: probably yes16:03
DocScrutinizerD-Iivil_Work: confirmed, doesn't work. I as well seem to have read smewhere it should, but for me it doesn't16:03
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DocScrutinizeronly doenside of ApMeFo: if you rearrange icons in main view, then all the apmefo drawers are disabled. Needed to re-enable them in apmefo config UI16:05
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auenfnow this is weird:16:07
auenfgot a CA-101 with my N82, and another CA-101 with my n90016:07
auenfusing the one that came with the N900, it doesnt charge the N900 using any usb port on my phone16:08
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auenfbut the one that came with the N82 charges the N900 fine in the exact same ports16:08
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DocScrutinizerblaerrgh, apmefo isn't a product in bugtracker, so no ticket I could possibly open :-/16:14
timeless_mbpauenf: how many usb ports do you have on your phone?16:14
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DocScrutinizerauenf: that sounds outright weird16:15
tybollttimeless_mbp: would a powered usb-hub "work" on the N900?16:15
timeless_mbptybollt: people have indicated they'd done it16:16
timeless_mbpfor the n800 (?) we used hacked usb-hubs iirc16:16
DocScrutinizerauenf: charging depends on D+/- datalines of CA-101 either enable ENUM data transfer to host, or signal shortcircuit in dedicated charger. If a CA-101 doesn't work for charging where another one does, I'd bet it's a broken cable16:16
timeless_mbppowered but w/ some change to how things were wired16:16
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DocScrutinizertybollt: depends on your definition of "works"16:17
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auenfDocScrutinizer, cable had never been used before ;)16:18
DocScrutinizertybollt: works for what?16:18
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auenfthe ca-101 that came with the n82 has been used many of times16:18
DocScrutinizertybollt: for charging N900 on a downstream port of powered hub -> won't work without hacks (see above line to auenf )16:19
tybolltBME ones or hardware?16:19
tybolltah see now16:19
DocScrutinizerauenf: as a powered hub doesn't ENUM nor has it D+/- short16:20
DocScrutinizertybollt: ^^^16:20
auenferr, im pluggin directly into the front and/or rear ports :P16:20
tybolltOui oui16:20
tybolltrear ports... o_O16:20
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auenfwhen the front port said not enough power, i pulled something else out of the back to try16:21
DocScrutinizerauenf: CA-101 is a standard USB cable with no special gimmicks16:21
auenfwhen that didnt work, i tried my powered hub (monitor)16:21
auenfthen i gave up and tried to find my older cable ;)16:21
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auenfyup, it *should* be just a simple usb cable16:22
keriobroken cable16:22
auenfobviously this other one is DOA16:22
DocScrutinizertybollt: for hostmode and N900 linked to upstream port of powered hub, things are a bit different16:22
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Corsachmhm, seems that displaying remote pictures from n810/n900 isn't something people are interested in16:23
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PhonicUKhey all16:23
auenfCorsac, n810 filemanager over bluetooth?16:23
jacekowskiany idea what is an EBS?16:23
PhonicUKI tried Mupen64 w/ PS3 controller and TV-Out yesterday16:24
PhonicUKwas awesome :D16:24
jacekowskiEXPORT cal_nand_scan_ebs16:24
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: a TLA16:24
jacekowskiin libcal16:24
Corsacauenf: I'd like something more automatic16:24
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Corsacauenf: as my n810 is currently idle, I'd like to use it as a digiframe/rss-reader/weather-station/...16:25
Corsacto  have it sitting on a desk, plugged in, and display its informations in cycle16:25
DocScrutinizererroneaous block search16:25
DocScrutinizereurope barbeque session16:26
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jacekowskibme is using software floating point16:38
jacekowskiinstead of using vfpu16:38
DocScrutinizerbme is using float? WTF?16:38
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DocScrutinizerhope it will keep fingers out of DSP16:39
jacekowskiwell you need floating point math for all battery calculations16:40
Stskeepsuhm, vfp is software floating point? :P16:40
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: another indication of bme being a totally braindamaged steaming oile of shit16:40
* Termana smacks BME's fingers, "keep your fingers out of that DSP young man" :P16:40
jacekowskiStskeeps: but bme is not using it16:40
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you need WHAT?16:40
jacekowskiStskeeps: bme has 70 instructions long function doing FDIV16:41
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: floating point or double16:41
DocScrutinizerfloat for a stupid set of divisions and multiplications you easily can do in even 32bit int?16:41
jacekowskiwell, you could16:42
jacekowskibut they went float way16:42
DocScrutinizerno, you shalt16:42
jacekowskiso why are they doing software float16:42
DocScrutinizerbecause they were noobs16:42
jacekowskiinstead of using dedicated hardware16:42
jacekowskihmm i could report a bug16:42
jacekowskii could report a lot bugs16:43
DocScrutinizernoobs, botchers, lazy uninspired skiddies16:43
TermanaRage against the mach^H^H Nokia16:43
StskeepsFDIV is VFP..16:43
jacekowskiStskeeps: it should be16:43
Stskeepsit is16:44
DocScrutinizerTermana: bme isn't Nokia, it's subcontractors16:44
jacekowskiStskeeps: but arm gcc defaults to not using vfp16:44
jacekowskiStskeeps: and it's generating ARM equivalent16:44
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Stskeepserr.. no, on v7 it defaults to it, and on v6+vfp too16:44
jacekowskiStskeeps: and don't argue with me16:44
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jacekowskii see the code16:44
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achipaX-Fade: will there be an option/possibility to send out notifications to the folks whose packages have already been unlocked ?16:45
Stskeepsas well as
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X-Fadeachipa: It will automatically do that for the ones unlocked by testers.16:46
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what jacekowski hopes to learn from dissecting bme? How to code buggy wrong poorly designed programms?16:47
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jacekowskiStskeeps: fact - BME has software version of FDIV16:47
DocScrutinizerfact - BME is a pile of shit16:48
Stskeepsyes, of course, it's built against v6+vfp16:48
achipaX-Fade: er, yes, but does this apply to those whom this has already happened and have not received the mails ?16:48
Stskeepsand v7 isn't on hardfloat16:48
X-Fadeachipa: Yes.16:48
MiXu-Is someone already working on building a replacement for bme? :)16:48
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X-Fadeachipa: As they don't have the mailed flag set yet.16:49
DocScrutinizerMiXu-: yes16:49
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: that bsi would be nice, and we don't know bme proto16:49
achipaX-Fade: yay !16:49
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: bsi is nonsense cargo cult, and for protocol ask Stskeeps16:49
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X-Fadeachipa: Also added: Status: Promotion unlocked, waiting for maintainter to promote16:50
X-Fadeachipa: To the package page.16:50
PhonicUKhas anyone tried Wipeout64 in Mupen?16:50
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lcukX-Fade, is there any reason why promotion cannot come from automated means?16:50
achipaX-Fade: (Y)16:50
X-Fadelcuk: Yes, as that is not always what someone wants.16:50
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: are you in charge of display for user karma?16:51
X-Fadelcuk: maintainer has last say.16:51
* lcuk nods16:51
DocScrutinizerkonttori: o/16:51
PhonicUKlol Mupen made my N900 reboot :\16:51
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X-FadeDocScrutinizer: I can be ;)16:52
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: watch and tell me what rationale the length of 'favourites' bar - please :-)16:53
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X-FadeDocScrutinizer: There is a bug about that. It is just a bar ;)16:53
DocScrutinizerk :-P16:53
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DocScrutinizerlo lcuk :)16:54
lcukhey DocScrutinizer \o16:56
DocScrutinizerkonttori: any news about EngineeringMode for cellmo (the more technical details like list of neighbour cells etc)?16:56
konttoriDocScrutinizer: well, looks like meego is moving to ophono, so, you'll get it at least then16:57
DocScrutinizera pity as quite a number of projects need this and won't work on maemo then16:58
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DocScrutinizere.g openBmap16:59
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DocScrutinizerkonttori: or (^f konttori)17:00
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konttoriwell, i promised we would look into it.17:01
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konttoriunfortunately because of shift in the targets of fremantle maintenance, that support addition could not make it anymore after the new scopes and the cellmo team pretty much started focusing only on harmattan17:02
konttorisomewhere in March-ish17:03
Stskeepsshould be possible to talk to the ofono guys, at least - we're doing a lot of n900 related celluar stuff17:03
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konttoriakiniemi can help you guys hook up to the right people. he's "the man" on that area17:05
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jacekowski[66850.279754] cfg80211: Regulatory domain changed to country: EU17:09
jacekowski[67451.521362] cfg80211: Regulatory domain changed to country: US17:09
jacekowski[68052.822784] cfg80211: Regulatory domain changed to country: EU17:09
jacekowskijust like that without my help17:09
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DocScrutinizerwlan regulatory doman switching is a mess, I heard17:10
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PhonicUKwooot, Wipeout64 looks odd in Mupen17:10
PhonicUKfast though17:11
PhonicUKthis with the accelerometer is my must-have game17:11
* DocScrutinizer sobs for mokomaze missing on N90017:11
jacekowskifmrdsnotify 0.4Fremantle Extras-devel free armelPackage has been removedSystem2010-07-01 10:34 UTC17:12
jacekowskiwhy it was removed?17:12
mirfPhonicUK: what's mupen?17:12
PhonicUKthe N64 emulator17:12
DocScrutinizermaybe eaten somebody's cat?17:13
PhonicUKit works quite well17:13
mirfsounds cool17:13
mirfslightly jerky I bet?17:13
X-Fadejacekowski: Hmm because it depended on qt4-maemo5-, I guess :)17:13
PhonicUKnot on all games17:13
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PhonicUKMario 64 is full speed17:13
PhonicUKand a few others too17:13
X-Fadejacekowski: Seems that that is a case of string matching gone wrong..17:13
mirfI'd be more tempted to try the psx emu17:14
PhonicUKI would if it worked :P17:14
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PhonicUKtheres 2 PSX emus, but none of them are really playable17:14
PhonicUKthings will probably get better if PSX4Pandora is ported17:14
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DocScrutinizerheh, so all kittens alive :-D17:14
PhonicUKMupen64 is really good though17:14
PhonicUKsuper smash bros :D17:15
mirfcool I'll get on it17:15
PhonicUKmirf, make sure to read the forum thread about it17:15
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PhonicUKtheres important stuff there17:15
mirfI just installed debian so I can get developing on n90017:15
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achipaX-Fade: got the pomotion mail \o/17:15
mirfI'm pretty sure it hates my network card17:15
achipanow let's see that extras promotion landrush...17:15
PhonicUKwoot tonic trouble works xD17:15
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TermanaPhonicUK, re: PSX4Pandora - why not just use the Pandora distro (I can't remember exactly their setup) in a chroot?17:16
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PhonicUKTermana, they use Angstrom - and because of the effort involved :P17:17
X-Fadejacekowski: restored, should show up again at some point.17:17
mirfyeah seems a bit overkill just to play some psx games17:17
X-Fadeachipa: Good.17:17
DocScrutinizersomebody got an aircondition to lend?17:17
achipaDocScrutinizer: it would only make things worse :)17:18
Termanaeffort involved? Are you jerking me around? Some mounts here, some .so copying there and your practically done17:18
X-Fadeachipa: You can now see the unlocked packages in the qa list as they have green karma.17:18
TermanaDocScrutinizer, I have a heater for you :) MAWAHAHA17:18
Appiahwould not mind a chroot made just for gaming17:18
jacekowskiit's pissing down here17:18
DocScrutinizerTermana: gimme, will hide in the shade17:18
jacekowskiand it apparently will continue for couple days17:18
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: where?17:19
TermanaDocScrutinizer is moving17:19
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DocScrutinizeractually I considered that yesterday17:19
jacekowskiwhere do you live?17:19
barisionehi, the buildbot complains about “REJECTED: 'File size for /mnt/incoming-builder/fremantle/ringtoned_0.1.1-0.tar.gz does not match that specified in .dsc'”. I think it's because the uploadd failed and I repeated it. is there a way to resubmit the same version?17:19
TermanaDocScrutinizer, because of the weather?17:19
DocScrutinizer~weather EDDN17:19
infobotNuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.07.12 1350 UTC; Dew Point: 57 F (14 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.88 in. Hg (1012 hPa); Relative Humidity: 30%; Temperature: 93 F (34 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the S (190 degrees) at 5 MPH (4 KT)17:20
TermanaDocScrutinizer let me learn you something17:20
X-Fadebarisione: upload probably didn't complete then.17:20
achipaX-Fade: sweet... who says you have no design skills :)17:20
jacekowskibarisione: checksums are incorrect in your case17:20
X-Fadeachipa: Hehe well I wanted an icon, but that is for later ;)17:20
barisioneX-Fade, jacekowski: yeah, but how do I repeat the upload?17:20
DocScrutinizeradd to that the downtown bonus of another 5°C17:20
TermanaDocScrutinizer, don't move to Australia - the weather fluctuates. One day is sunny and warm, the next freezing cold17:20
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X-Fadebarisione: just dput it again?17:20
barisioneX-Fade: Package has already been uploaded to fremantle-extras-builder on drop.maemo.org17:21
barisioneNothing more to do for ringtoned_0.1.1-0_armel.changes17:21
E0xhmm i have fmms installed and i set my phone to automatic connection ( wifi or data celullar ) when not wifi around is get connect to the MMS connection that fmms create is anyway that i can set priority to a connection or can i delete the connection that fmms create ?17:21
X-Fadebarisione: Use scp then?17:21
E0xor the only way is uninstall fmms ?17:21
achipaDocScrutinizer:  you've got 3 degrees on me, but I have 52% (and rising) humidity17:22
X-Fadebarisione: Or the web interface:
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barisioneah, let's try with scp17:22
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E0xforget my question i find the solution at the wiki17:23
barisioneah, and dput has a --force option17:23
X-Fadebarisione: hehe, makes sense too.17:23
* DocScrutinizer trying to move his arse to head out to a nicely AC'd shopping mall17:23
barisionethanks, I used scp and it worked. next time I will use --force17:23
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jacekowskihow would i make rds_ps dynamic17:26
jacekowskiand push all info there17:26
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DocScrutinizerHOORAY Nokia <>  is sending me SPAM17:33
DocScrutinizerHTML-only mail BS17:33
DocScrutinizerspamassassin rating 5.517:34
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you're good on giberish ;-P17:37
jacekowskinah, i'm not going to decode that mail for you17:37
DocScrutinizerI'm not going to google rds_ps for you17:37
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DocScrutinizernot even for me ;-D17:38
jacekowskirds_ps - station name displayed on radio17:38
jacekowskiand i want something that most of stations do17:38
jacekowskiwhich is scrolling text there ( it's non conforming to specification but fuck it )17:39
* DocScrutinizer shrugs17:39
DocScrutinizerseen that... failing17:40
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DocScrutinizernon-conforming to specs means that *may* work with your particular model of receiver17:41
jacekowskiwell, spec says that it can change17:41
jacekowskijust not too often because it might distract the driver17:42
DocScrutinizeryes, but spec doesn't say how often, and how fast it's polled17:42
DocScrutinizerso you'll find receivers that do a really bad job at scrolling text there17:42
DocScrutinizeractually virtually all receivers will fail to display a useful scrolling, by whatever definition17:43
DocScrutinizerof useful17:44
jacekowskianyways i'm going back to playing with cal17:44
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jacekowskii need some gui to modify it easily17:44
jacekowskiand somehow get names of all blocks there17:44
DocScrutinizerevil hax0r17:44
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jacekowskiand then make it public17:45
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jacekowskiwithout any warnings17:45
X-FadeI even have a radio with 7 chars to display rds ;)17:45
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jacekowskiand see how many people will break their phones by touching config block17:45
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you share apartment with titan?17:46
jacekowskibecause nolo will refuse to boot if it's damaged17:46
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: who he is?17:46
jacekowskiany links?17:47
* DocScrutinizer shrugs17:47
jacekowskiyou mentioned the name17:47
DocScrutinizersearch in HAM - fsckng powerkernel is in extras now17:48
jacekowskiham and search17:50
DocScrutinizerit's like selling kits with Acetone and H2O2 to people, and tell them "it's relatively safe substances, just don't mix"17:50
jacekowskiwell, i'm surprised that you recommended searching in HAM17:51
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DocScrutinizer"powerkernel doesn't do any OC by default. User has to set that, and read the warnings when doing so"  - - -  "OC tool let's you select the max cpu clockfreq easily from a GUI. Just read the warning that come with powerkernel"17:53
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GAN900Maemo: Where EVERYTHING is in maintenance mode!17:55
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prontoeven google!17:56
DocScrutinizerGAN900: extras repo *IS* supposed to be safe and no need to read lengthy wiki pages with warnings prior to installing&using whatever comes in extras17:57
GAN900Fremantle had such a tiny window of opportunity.17:58
GAN900Then Nokia just tossed everybody out on their asses.17:58
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DocScrutinizerhell, that's WRONG when I could get an autodistruct app into extras when only it's optified and gets 10 votes17:58
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: You suggesting we remove 'rm' or dd too?17:59
LjLhello. is the system software on an N810 and an N900 totally open source, or are there bits and pieces (like hardware drivers) that aren't? what about the telephony stack on the 900?18:00
DocScrutinizer"what, your device gone BOOM? X-P NOOB! didn't you read the wiki warnings about autodist?"18:00
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: no, but I suggest we keep out of extras any app that makes it mandatory to read wikipages, so user understands what he must not do with this app18:01
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X-FadeDocScrutinizer: It doesn't do anything by default.18:02
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: You need to read the wiki anyway to do something useful.18:02
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: yes, like acetone18:02
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: nope, I've been told OC is just a click away, after you installed powerkernel with config gui18:03
DocScrutinizerkernel=acetone, GUI=peroxide18:03
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Foot, gun, aim ;)18:03
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: nah, keep it, or I won't find any more victims to bash up&down the channel for OC without any clue18:04
StskeepsLjL: no, telephony stack is getting opened though. fremantle is about 43% open source. for n900, follow the meego on n900 project18:05
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: just make sure you're prepared and got your asbestos underwear when Nokia managers call for meeting about why N900 has no revenue due to excessive repair on warranty18:06
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, with as little support as they've provided for the platform, I doubt very much a few OCers will blow away the profits. *eg*18:07
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: don't expect Nokia EE will take the blame. They will clearly prove they built a industry standard device, and also informed sw engineers about how to handle it18:08
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: I'm not sure they are just a few. And service due to constant segfaults of whatever system daemon, just because some gate ran out of spec due to OC and fails 10 out of 100, that for sure will eventually pile up on management's desk18:12
LullenHow do I select multiple items with a qlistview?18:12
DocScrutinizerhold shift? ;-P18:13
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, n900 isn't average user device18:13
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LullenI mean with code :)18:13
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: tbh i think it's more like 7650 was18:13
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: ask nokia, they will tell you contrary18:13
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, well, let's consider it payback for all the money they've saved by putting the platform and the website into maintenance mode 8 months after release.18:13
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: test device with lot of stuff to see how it works and what people think18:13
GAN900clearly it's not a device intended to last longer than that. :P18:14
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nidOlow number of people dumb enough to claim warranty on a low percentage of dead devices in the timeframe most people replace them from a low percentage of devices that get overclocked from a device that's sold in small numbers to a niche market = not a huge loss for nokia to reject some warranties18:14
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jacekowskithat too18:15
jacekowskii don't think that running it overclocked will make it fail18:15
jacekowskiwell not when warranty is valid18:15
jacekowskibtw. is it year or 2?18:15
nidOit wont, its just that some will fail earlier than they otherwise would18:15
nidOdepends where you are, throughout the eu it's 2 years18:16
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GAN900jacekowski, depends in your locale.18:16
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jacekowskii'm just wondering if i could claim it from my insurance18:17
jacekowskias accidental damage18:17
nidOthat would probably get complicated18:17
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: easy. OC to 1GHz and run aircrack on it to really use the CPU and membus. Then I bet you can test if your assurance will pay - very soon18:19
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jacekowskii could ask them18:19
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nidOif you ask them, you've already voided any chance youll have of claiming it18:19
nidOyou intentionally overclock the device, the onus is on you not knowing doing so would damage the device18:20
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nidObut asking them if damaging the device in that way is covered by insurance is an implicit admission that you know doing so might damage it18:20
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DocScrutinizernidO: ack, except s/its just that some will fail/its just that all will fail/18:22
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DocScrutinizerand you don't know exactly when that is going to happen18:22
nidOthe insurance policy will state that it doesnt cover situations where you intentionally do something you know might reasonably damage your insured product18:22
DocScrutinizerbut seems TI does18:22
jacekowskinidO: well, using a stylus on screen causes scratches18:23
nidOif you're brutal with the screen yes18:23
jacekowskinidO: but it's covered by the insurance18:23
nidOi've been using a stylus on my n900 since early february and mine's still pristine18:23
DocScrutinizermy only scatch isn't from stylus :-P18:24
jacekowskimine is scratched little bit18:24
DocScrutinizerit's from a grain of dust on my fnger18:24
jacekowskiand i have one hole in a screen18:24
DocScrutinizerhaircross target app? X-P18:24
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dredaHas there been any official mention of a Japanese IME for Maemo?18:25
nidOfrankly if it came down to it, your safer bet if the phone dies from being oc'd would be to take up running, accidentally not secure the phone in your pocket very well, and run until you drop it18:26
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jacekowskiwell 3 deeper scratches18:27
jacekowski1 hole18:27
jacekowskismall hole18:27
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kerioor just ask for the warranty18:27
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: WTF? thought that r-ts is oil-separated18:28
kerioapply 220V ad libitum on the SoC18:28
DocScrutinizerresistive touchscreen18:28
jacekowskinot that deep hole18:28
jacekowskibtw. how much does that r-ts cost?18:29
DocScrutinizererr I seem to remember ~60EUR18:29
nidOin the uk you can get replacements bought and fitted for £50-£7518:29
jacekowskiwhat about nokia care centre?18:29
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nidOgenerally the higher end of that kinda figure18:30
jacekowskihmm, i'll send them an e-mail18:32
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jacekowskior call18:32
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Bluewindwhere can I find the ipp backend for cups (n900)? doesn't seem to be in the cups/cups-common packages18:37
GNU\caust1cis there a way to block contacts/msgs in the jabber client?18:38
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: btw there's (almost) nothing you could destroy by using dd or rm, that couldn't be fixed by user with a standard flashing of rootfs. Even scratch the "(almost)" for things that are permanently broken and need hw fix18:38
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ShapeshifterKhertan: you around?18:39
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PhonicUKhas anyone tried installing Mer on their device?18:40
DocScrutinizermer is called meego now18:40
PhonicUKI thought Meego = nokia offical, Mer = community built18:41
PhonicUKah i see now18:41
PhonicUKhas anyone tried installing Meego on their device?18:42
DocScrutinizer/join #meego-arm18:42
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well18:44
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: if cal is fucked up nolo will refuse to boot18:44
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: allegedly, yes18:45
LjLwait... if Mer "is" MeeGo, how come Mer works on the N810, and MeeGo so far doesn't? Or am i wrong about the former?18:45
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Stskeepsit isn't, DocScrutinizer is generalising18:46
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Stskeepsmer is dead. meego is the successor18:46
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I'd bet there's an 'image' to restore cal. probably even for flasher & jig18:46
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: maybe there's even a secret R&D flag option for NOLO to use a default cal and boot nevertheless, or at least enter flashing mode so you can flash cal via NOLO18:48
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: there isn't18:48
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Stskeepsthere's cold flashing18:48
Stskeepsnot sure if it works without a working nolo, though18:49
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: does cold flashing use a special jig18:49
Stskeepsjust uart18:49
jacekowskiwell i have a way of writing anywhere trough nolo18:49
jacekowskiincluding directly writing to cal18:50
jacekowskibut it will still need working config18:50
jacekowskii mean not working working18:50
DocScrutinizeraiui OMAP has a way to load some executable directly from UART18:50
jacekowskibut config with correct checksum18:50
DocScrutinizerthen execute that18:50
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: not in default boot order18:50
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: in default one it will go to nolo before uart18:51
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DocScrutinizermhm, so probably it needs shorting 2 testpads to switch that18:51
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keriois there a way to brick a n900?18:53
jacekowskiit looks like there are 2 kinds of cal18:53
jacekowskikerio: yes18:53
jacekowskikerio: dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mtd018:53
jacekowskikerio: and it's a brick18:53
keriono way to recover?18:53
jacekowskinot with usb cable18:54
jacekowskinokia can flash it18:54
keriowhat's mtd0?18:54
jacekowskipartition on nand18:54
jacekowskiwith nolo18:54
Stskeepsif you intentionally saw over your leaf, you're stupd18:55
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b-manthat's how i nuked my N800 lol18:55
b-manmessed up mtd018:55
jacekowskithere are 2 types of cal18:56
alteregoIs it possible to get usb networking to ifup when it's connected via usb and ifdown when disconnected?18:56
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jacekowskione that libcal is touching and prototypes are avaliable18:56
jacekowskiand there is other one18:56
alteregoPresumably using udev? :)18:56
jacekowskithat nolo is using as well18:56
slonopotamusanyone can share /dev/mtd1 backup? :)18:56
slonopotamuslost mine somewhere18:56
jacekowskiand there are no prototypes for it for libcal ( but libcal is exporting required functions )18:57
alteregoslonopotamus: just download the fiasco image ...18:57
jacekowskialterego: mtd1 == cal18:57
jacekowskialterego: it's not in fiasco image18:57
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slonopotamusbtw, that's total crap that backup tool doesn't backup cal.18:58
jacekowskical isn't supposed to be touched by userspace18:59
Stskeepsit is, though18:59
Stskeepsby dsme and co18:59
jacekowskiwell i mean nothing there shouldn't be stored18:59
jacekowskiyou know what i mean19:00
alteregoThere's a lot of phonet debugging output in dmesg. It's kind of annoying ..19:00
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DocScrutinizernot really :-P19:00
evilbitdoes anyone use gpe_calendar with syncevolution?19:00
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dotblank[laptop]why is bootscreen removed from the repos?19:04
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Bluewindwhich package contains cups' ipp backend?19:05
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nidOdotblank[laptop], because it depended on libqt4-maemo519:06
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dotblank[laptop]nidO, oh ok...19:08
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SpeedEvilDoes anyone happen to know of an open-source keyboard noises -> keystrokes app? That is that detects the noises of the keystrokes, and performs modeling of what the keys might be?19:31
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* RST38h laughs satanically19:34
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RST38hGentlemen, I am sorry to ask again, but could all the interested parties vote here:
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keriowhat does that do?19:43
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SpeedEvilIt reads books.19:45
SpeedEvilWell - enables you to read books.19:46
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SpeedEvilI mean - it enables you to view books on screen - it does not teach you magically to read.19:46
SpeedEvilThough I suspect most people using IRC can read.19:46
sheepbat...I never learned to read or write...19:47
SpeedEvilNot all people - there are people who can't read and use IRC19:48
* RST38h is actually against teaching people write19:48
mgedminRST38h, what's new?19:48
sheepbatclearly, RST38h19:48
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mgedminin that version of fbreader?19:48
RST38hIt is helpful to teach them to read though19:48
RST38hmgedmin: compared to -12?19:48
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SpeedEvilIMO some rudimentary writing ability is needed19:49
RST38hmgedmin: I have fixed the zlibrary dependency, as it made App Manager "forget" to install the latest library19:49
mgedminah, only packaging changes then19:49
RST38hmgedmin: Still, it is important19:49
RST38hmgedmin: -11 fixes the stall when loading a book on startup19:49
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RST38hmgedmin: And adds scroll-by-drag19:49
SpeedEvilDoes it take away the existing scroll behaviour?19:50
mgedminI've discovered recently that the stall-when-loading can be shortened if you tap the screen/press a key19:50
RST38hmgedmin: Which is the first really reliable touch-scrolling mechanism in Maemo519:50
mgedminbut it'll be much nicer to be rid of it altogether19:50
RST38hmgedmin: Yea, it was hanging in a blocking gtk+ loop19:50
RST38hmgedmin: I made it non-blocking and that fixed it19:50
RST38hSpeed: No, scroll-by-drag is optional, but enabled by default19:51
mgedminmaybe the table of contents will become usable19:52
mgedminI hate it how tap-to-scroll takes precedence over tap-to-follow-link19:52
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RST38hit is usable now19:52
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mgedminthere's plenty of empty areas without any links I could tap on if I wanted to scroll19:52
RST38hmgedmin: unfortunately it is more complicated than that19:52
SpeedEvilI never use TOCs myself19:52
RST38hmgedmin: I also thought that it would be easy to fix. No fucking way.19:53
RST38hmgedmin: Touchscreen is no mouse, and the N900 touchscreen is incredibly noisy19:53
RST38hmgedmin: FBReader tries filtering out the noise, but only succeeds in failing to scroll completely19:54
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RST38hAnd if I force it to scroll, it starts overriding list selection (see above: NOISE)19:54
mgedminI banged head against wall for a long time until I made it scroll on taps reliably19:54
mgedminwith the same downside19:54
RST38hyea. so I worked around that19:55
mgedminhow does this new "drag to scroll" thing work?19:55
mgedminI see it selected in my preferences19:55
mgedminI perceive no difference: tapping scrolls, dragging does nothing19:55
RST38hIt will scroll when abs(dy/dx)>=519:55
RST38hyou have to enable it, or delete your current config19:55
mgedminif it's not enabled, why is the checkbox checked in my preferences?19:56
RST38hthen it is enabled19:56
mgedminthen I perceive no difference from old behaviour19:57
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* mgedmin shrugs19:57
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RST38hmgedmin: You are doing something wrong.19:58
RST38hmgedmin: Move your config somewhere safe19:58
mgedminI've this gift of breaking software by using it normally19:58
RST38hmgedmin: And start FBReader19:58
RST38hYOu are probably not breaking anything, just have somewhat screwed maemo-specific touch settings19:59
mgedminoh, I have _those_19:59
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RST38hremove your config, restart, see if dragging works19:59
mgedmin<group name="StylusPressure"><option name="Maximum" value="6"/></group> etc.19:59
mgedmin<sarcasm>how infinitely better xml is when compared to a simple .ini file</sarcasm>20:00
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RST38hWell, isn't XML a REAL programming language? :)20:00
* RST38h ducks. Quickly.20:00
mgedminbloody grouped string key and value pars20:00
mgedminyou're mistaken, HTML is a programming language20:00
mgedminXML is a database engine20:01
mgedminthe prof at my uni managed to give off the impression XML will replace RDBMSes20:01
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cehtehmhm ... someone wants to make a turing_machine.xslt which takes a xml file as tape? :)20:01
RST38hOh I can tell you way more about this than is healthy20:01
* mgedmin is now coming across as an XML-hater, when he actually quite likes it20:01
mgedminI'd ask if comp.lang.xml.recovery existed if I knew how to use Usenet20:02
RST38hYes, you CAN do DBMS in XML20:02
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RST38hIt is about the same as doing programming in Java though20:02
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mgedminbetter Java than XSLT, though20:03
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cehteh"Which turd do you want, your choice" :)20:04
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mgedminok, gotta go20:04
mgedminvoted for fbreader20:04
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RST38hXSLT authors probably never got to use their creation for anything serious20:06
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SpeedEvilI saw someone implementing a 'find the centre of a polygon' algorithm in xslt20:09
RST38hAh, screw the polygon20:09
SpeedEvilIn that there was basically no math support20:09
RST38hTry implementing something XSLT has been "designed" for20:09
RST38hI.e. text processing20:09
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RST38hTry that without regular expressions ;)20:09
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SpeedEvilThis was to transform a XML map20:09
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* SpeedEvil drops 130Gb of XML on RST38h.20:10
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* RST38h redirects to /dev/null20:10
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SpeedEvilActually - I guess >250 by now20:11
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Stskeepswazd: happy birthday!20:13
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wazdStskeeps: oooh, thank you :)20:15
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wazdRST38h: o/20:15
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ShapeshifterDoes someone know where the app manager gets the names from which it displays as the package name?20:17
Shapeshifterbecause it doesn't seem to be the NAME field20:18
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ShapeshifterPackage: alarmed in control/control. Yet e.g. in the package overview page on the maemo homepage, it has a capital A, "Alarmed"20:19
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ShapeshifterGAN900: oh. does it default to capitalizing if there's no such field?20:21
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GAN900Not as far as I'm aware20:22
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kerioSpeedEvil: is that usable?20:25
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SpeedEvilIs what usable?20:29
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RST38hFinally. The great master speaks up.20:32
ShapeshifterGAN900: does this go in .changes or do I have to put it elsewhere?20:33
Shapeshifterthe Maemo-Display-Name20:33
GAN900Shapeshifter, goes in you control file.20:33
* luke-jr ponders if it would be worthwhile to write a dumbphone UI emulator for N90020:33
RST38hwhy? it already has the dumbphone ui20:33
ShapeshifterGAN900: okay thanks20:33
luke-jreg, so you can tell T-Mobile & co you have the dumbphone and get cheaper service20:33
luke-jrmirf: a cellphone w/ 1 CPU20:34
luke-jrmore an immediate problem for me, is that T-Mobile has no prepaid data here20:35
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luke-jrthe closest they have is a $1/day Sidekick plan with filtered (NAT+proxy) access20:36
mirfahhh like smartphone only dumb20:36
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Shapeshifterdoes someone know what the numbers in the middle mean in this line in a .dsc file after "Files:"? 5ea7a67afd7ffd44fa8e6adbb4e7bead 8597288 reactionfaceoff_0.0.1-1.tar.gz20:48
Shapeshifterthe "8597288"20:48
BugBluesize? crc32?20:48
mortinihow many cookies you need to send me?20:49
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ShapeshifterBugBlue: mh. yeah size in bytes probably20:50
Shapeshifterdid I ever mention that I find deb packaging to be the greatest pita I've ever encountered on linux?20:50
mortiniyou've apparently never tried to compile gcc on a small hard drive.20:51
_llll_it;s a hash20:51
* SpeedEvil has done it on a 60M drive.20:51
SpeedEvilNot recently tho.20:51
arachnistSpeedEvil: what version was it?20:51
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arachnistrecent versions of gcc take over 1.5GB for source + object files20:52
RST38hGCC pools ahead of Visual Studio in terms of disk space usage!20:52
mortinijust when building it.20:53
arachnistthe installed size is a lot smaller20:53
mortinii wonder how much space you need to build visual studio20:53
arachnistsys-devel/gcc-4.4.4-r1: 813 files, 65 non-files, 85659.668 KB20:53
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arachnistcross-armv5tel-softfloat-linux-gnueabi/gcc-4.4.4-r1: 734 files, 97 non-files, 48505.58 KB20:53
Shapeshifterman this is so stupid20:53
RST38hah, not fair then =)20:53
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mortinii dunno, in like '96 or '97, i was building it on a 2GB hard drive for unremembered reasons, where os and everything was on there. i seem to remember the build taking upwards of 500 MB20:54
mortiniif not more20:54
luke-jrarachnist: I might have a problem then :(20:54
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arachnistluke-jr: mount over some space over nfs20:54
luke-jrarachnist: ew20:54
arachnistor coda, if you please20:54
Shapeshifterwhy on earth is the md5 for the tar.gz in the .dsc if it's already in the .changes file. And why is the same info scattered across several different files in different places. And why is it so damn picky about white spaces. what on earth is this, why haven't they fixed this horrid package management.20:54
SpeedEvilarachnist: decade old?20:55
arachnistSpeedEvil: ?20:55
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SpeedEvilarachnist: it was ~1.2.13 kernel20:55
mortiniShapeshifter: package management, in general, blows.20:55
SpeedEvil60M wasn't a small drive20:55
Shapeshiftermortini: pacman does it right.20:55
Shapeshifterit's brilliant.20:55
arachnistmortini: not if done right20:56
mortiniIt also had the fortune of being, what. 5 years old?20:56
zasharachnist: isn't coda hard to setup?20:56
_llll_Shapeshifter: but the packaging tools do all that stuff for you, so it makes zero impact on you20:56
arachnistmortini: paludis gets it right20:56
arachnistzash: actually, never tried it20:56
Shapeshifter_llll_: the packaging tools are incredibly complicated20:56
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_llll_they are?20:56
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_llll_use debhelper20:56
Shapeshifteryeah right, a wrapper aroudn a wrapper around a wrapper20:56
zasharachnist: meh :( it seemed way harder than nfs to setup when i tried :(20:57
* Stskeeps is actually happy about spec + spectacle after spending some time with rpm20:57
arachnistzash: nfs exported from a zfs-backed nas does all i need20:57
zasharachnist: but does it work offline?20:57
arachnistzash: my network's never offline20:58
arachnistmy nas is never offline20:58
zasharachnist: but I am sometimes :(20:58
* zash want's some smart caching fs20:58
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arachnistzash: that will travel in time for one day ahead and cache exactly what you're going to use that day?20:59
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zasharachnist: yes, exactly!21:00
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zasharachnist: but I would be satisfied if it just cached stuff I regulary use, and clear less popular stuff when the cache gets too big21:01
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arachnistSEL time21:02
arachnist(and i wonder how many people will get that one21:02
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kerioSpeedEvil: is the whole of planet.osm usable on n900 with a program?21:06
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ShapeshifterOh and look at this magnificent error message21:07
Shapeshifter"dpkg-gencontrol: error: must specify package since control info has many ()21:07
Shapeshifterthat's not even a sentence.21:07
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luke-jrsure it is21:08
luke-jrit's just missing quotes around ()21:08
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Shapeshifterand what is a ()?21:09
Shapeshifteran empty cheeseburger?21:09
arachnistblahblahblah (blah blah) blah blah21:10
arachnistor the control info is a lisp source code21:10
Shapeshifterluke-jr: orly.21:10
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Shapeshifterso what do you recommend for packaging pythong programs, then?21:12
Shapeshifteras a wrapper around wrappers21:12
luke-jron another note, T-Mobile appears to only be blocking a few ports on that Sidekick plan21:12
luke-jrShapeshifter: I recommend avoiding Python :D21:12
Shapeshiftervery helpful21:12
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kerioSpeedEvil: do you know of a way to make mappero use a locally-downloaded, bzipped planet.osm?21:23
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ShapeshifterGAN900: well that didn't work. autobuilder removed "Maemo-Display-Name: Reaction face-off" from the control file.21:36
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Shapeshifterthis is hopeless21:38
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Shapeshifteroh well21:42
ShapeshifterI looked it up and it's "XB-Maemo-Display-Name"21:42
lcukShapeshifter, doh! what are you using for packaging21:42
Shapeshifterlcuk: py2deb. and then I go manually editing the control file and re-doing md5 sums and so on. But now I'll first fix py2deb to include that field21:42
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lcukcool stuff21:43
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SpeedEvilkerio: I think mappero is a raster based app21:56
SpeedEvilkerio: To generate tiles locally, you need to setup an instance of mapnik21:57
SpeedEvilplanet.osm is a xml database dump - it is generally not intended to be directly used by renderers21:58
SpeedEvilIn principle you could generate a map using a browser, and xslt - but many browsers are somewhat slow dealing with 250G of XML21:59
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keriono kidding22:00
keriowhat's mapnik? and is it viable to use it locally on the n900?22:01
SpeedEvilSee the above page.22:01
SpeedEvilAnd no.22:01
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: there is one more thing you have to remember22:02
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: with jrbme22:02
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kerioand does mappero still use the data for something else?22:02
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SpeedEvilI think mappero just downloads tiles22:02
SpeedEvilfrom the server22:03
SpeedEvilthat is - pre-rasterised content22:03
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: you have to handle emergency calls somehow22:03
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: because bme will not request shutdown if there is emergency call in progress22:03
SpeedEvilThe cellmo turns off anyway at 3vish22:03
SpeedEvilI assume22:04
jacekowskiyeah, but there are other cases when phone will shutdown22:04
jacekowskilike overtemperature22:04
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jacekowskior lost BSI22:04
SpeedEvilOR no BSI22:05
SpeedEvil- it won't boot22:05
jacekowskiyeah, but it will keep running22:05
SpeedEvilOn another topic.22:05
jacekowskiso simplest way to hot swap batteries22:05
jacekowskicall 11222:05
SpeedEvilI am looking for something to analyse TCP streams.22:05
SpeedEvilI have found tcpick - which reassembles them into two files per stream - one per direction22:06
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: hmhm, I'm aware of that. Emergency cals will even override fatal overtemperature. Anyway I don't plan to handle shutdown in jrbme at all22:06
SpeedEvilthis is - nearly - ideal22:06
SpeedEvilI would like something like a hexdump of the reassembled stream in both directions at once, with a timestamp22:06
jacekowskitshark would do the job22:06
jacekowskibut the thing is22:07
jacekowskiwhat are you trying to do?22:07
DocScrutinizer(call 112 to swap batteries) LOL22:07
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SpeedEvilhmm - looks plausible22:08
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SpeedEviljacekowski: Examine a (not directly n900 related) text/binary protocol to work out the details. I've gotten most of it - I just need the sequencing - for example - which side initiates a login request22:09
kerioDocScrutinizer: epic22:09
jacekowskion a pc?22:10
keriohow fast do you need to be?22:10
SpeedEviljacekowski: yes.22:10
jacekowskii would recommend wireshark22:10
SpeedEvilI have awk decoding 95% of the protocol, I just need the wrinkles.22:11
jacekowskigo for wireshark and write a proper dissector22:12
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DocScrutinizerif there's none yet (very low probability)22:12
SpeedEvilVery high.22:12
jacekowskiand there is text version which is called tshark22:13
SpeedEvilIt's not a normal protocol, it's cooked by a somewhat broken site.22:13
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jacekowskiSpeedEvil: what is that anyways?22:13
greghaynesIs Qt Mobility available on n900's at the moment?22:13
SpeedEviljacekowski: I've been asked not to reveal it ATM.22:13
SpeedEvilIt may popup as an app at some point22:14
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DocScrutinizerSTRIKE! heavy rain and -7°22:14
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greghaynesAnd if so, I cant find a QSensor for GPS so should I just be using liblocation from Qt or is there some other way people have been using?22:15
Macerwow. i got gas on thursday and used my debit card and it is monday now and it still hasn't cleared22:15
jacekowskiMacer: don't worry22:15
jacekowskiMacer: it will22:15
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kerioDocScrutinizer: is the backup battery big enough to power an idle phone for, say, 5 seconds?22:16
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Macermaybe there was a technical glitch and they lost all the transactions for that day :)22:16
GAN900Macer, 3 days.22:16
DocScrutinizerno way22:16
jacekowskikerio: no22:16
jacekowskikerio: it's not connected that way22:16
MacerGAN900: it si the only place that does this22:16
jacekowskibesides, backup battery in my phone is probably dead22:16
DocScrutinizerand even if it were22:16
jacekowskiit lasts maybe 5-10 minutes22:16
Macereverything else comes out instantly22:16
DocScrutinizerit couldn't even supply the current22:16
GAN900Depends on their system.22:16
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: at 0Hz iddle22:16
SpeedEvilI have one drill that the ebay seller diddn't collect payment for.22:17
SpeedEvilWhich was odd.22:17
SpeedEvil(32mm*40cm SDS)22:17
jacekowskito just keep ram running22:17
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: bupbats have some 100R impedance22:17
MacerSpeedEvil: maybe they got into a car accident and died22:17
DocScrutinizerand <3V22:17
SpeedEvilMacer: Shipped product, did not request payment.22:17
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Maceruhm. aren't you supposed to pay them while they ship it?22:18
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: got my query?22:19
SpeedEvilIf they wish to send me free stuff, I'm not going to chase.22:19
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: no. I woke up after the bank branch had shut. Stupid half-days.22:19
MacerSpeedEvil: it was probably not free :)22:19
Maceryou just didn't pay22:19
DocScrutinizerso you got the query, but not the call?22:20
Maceri want meego to be awesome for my n900 already22:20
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Macertalk about rough around the edges22:22
Macerthe end where it seriously crashes out was kind of funny22:23
petterican I execute command when I login to ash (launch xterm). I want it to execute bash so that my login shell from xterm would be always bash22:25
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greghaynespetteri: chsh22:26
petterigreghaynes: ?22:26
greghaynesRun it, it changes your shell22:26
petteriok. I want to change only the shell for interactive logins, so that I wont mess my n900, does it do that22:27
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jacekowskiMOV r0,#022:28
greghaynesNot sure what you mean by that22:28
jacekowskiFDIV r0,r1,r022:28
SpeedEvilchsh will screw your system22:28
jacekowskiwhat would hapen?22:28
greghaynesOh, it didnt seem to on mine..22:28
SpeedEvilIt has for some people.22:28
greghaynesIll take your word for it though22:28
jacekowskii mean, how does arm handle floating point divide by zero?22:28
petteriI want only use bash when I log in with xterm22:28
greghaynesHrm, does ash handle alias?  If so alias xterm -e bash IIRC22:29
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Macerthat is an awesome video where the guy flashes22:30
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: probably like every other system22:30
Macerhopefully in a year or so when my n900 is completely obsolete22:30
Maceri can install meego on it22:30
greghaynesnvm, that wont work22:30
MacerN8 looks like a pretty nice phone22:30
* greghaynes gives up22:30
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Maceralthough i'm not a big symbian fan22:31
Macerwhat kind of kernel is symbian based on?22:31
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greghaynesMacer: Linux22:31
greghaynesoh, symbian, though meego22:31
Shapeshifterso how do I delete a package from extras-devel?=22:31
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greghaynesTooo bad the aava isnt out yet, it looks not bad for running meego22:32
DocScrutinizerping X-Fade22:32
DocScrutinizerthere is no way to delete22:33
keriobash-setup does work22:33
ShapeshifterX-Fade: the package "maemoreactor" is now obsolete as I changed the name and rebuilt the package under a different name.22:33
kerioand doesn't screw up the phone22:33
keriothe window switching in meego is fucking awesome btw22:34
petteriok so I did echo "/bin/bash" >> .profile I hope that wont mess anything22:34
keriothat will fuck up everything if bash runs .profile22:34
kerioand i think it does22:34
kerioyou want .ashrc22:34
kerioor just run bash-setup22:34
DocScrutinizeryou bet22:34
greghayneshah, I wonder it it catches the loop22:34
petteribash dont run .profile22:35
Macergreghaynes: linux?22:35
petteriworks fine, but if there is .ashrc I will put it there22:35
Maceri thought symbian was some sort of proprietary kernel from nokia22:35
keriopetteri: remove that22:35
kerioand run bash-setup22:35
greghaynesMacer: I thought you were asking about meego for some reason, I actually have no idea22:35
keriochsh won't fuck things up if /bin/bash is in /etc/shells and you only run it as user22:35
greghaynesMaybe people were running it without bash installed and saying it caused errors, which would definitely happen22:36
petterihmmm. .ashrc is not read by ash22:37
DocScrutinizerbash WILL read /etc/profile. A bash invoked as sh will also read ~/.profile22:38
PerfDaveSo my latest Maemo update tells me it can't install over-the-air and I need to connect to a PC running Windows... but I don't have a PC running Windows. Am I stuffed? Nobody mentioned requiring Windows when I bought the phone.22:38
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Macerint he video he flashed meego and it ran bash22:39
ShadowJKPerfDave, no you don't22:39
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ShadowJKinfact, the windows flasher is somewhat crappier than the commandline one22:39
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PerfDaveShadowJK: OK, so what do I do to install the update?22:40
DocScrutinizerPerfDave: that's just Nokia's way to let you know they think you're an idiot22:40
infobothmm... flashing is
PerfDaveDocScrutinizer: When it comes to my N900 I *am* an idiot22:41
Macerdownload a meego kickstart file?22:41
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DocScrutinizerooh, an amiga fan22:42
Shapeshifterfor renaming a forum thread, who'd I ask best?22:42
butt-grabrthe windows tool also forces some nasty EULA on you.. the UNIX version does not, so UNIX users have more legal freedom22:42
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, i think i know why it's not using FDIV22:42
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: and it seems like it's something with gcc22:42
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I couldn't care less22:43
ShadowJKPerfDave, btw I recommend making a backup first22:43
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DocScrutinizerI wonder who's been so daft to use float in bme anyway22:43
FIQbash refuses to read the .bashrc when invoked from osso-xterm, can i change this behavior?22:44
Stskeepsosso-xterm and bash is open source22:44
Stskeepsgo nuts22:44
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: because then you can just multiply/divide by some number and end up with voltage22:44
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I mean, check ShadowJK's or my script. Do you see floats used?22:44
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: instead voltage multipled by whatever22:45
PerfDaveStskeeps: Thanks, I'll bear that in mind22:45
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: that's nonsense. Go back to school!22:45
butt-grabrFIQ: the .bashrc file is read in the root account.. i've verified that22:45
butt-grabrFIQ: but i think there's an issue w/ user accounts.. my user account doesn't seem to read it22:46
jacekowskiints can only hold ints22:46
DocScrutinizerso what?22:46
jacekowskiso you would have to keep value in milivolts for example22:46
FIQwell, starting bash within bash does read it, but not from osso-xterm22:46
jacekowskiinstead of volts22:46
DocScrutinizerso what?22:46
FIQand i don't feel like running bash each time i start the shell. :P22:46
ShapeshifterHow can I specify that my package conflicts with another package?22:46
PhonicUKhey all22:46
ShadowJKwell that's fine because I think in mV too :-)22:47
* DocScrutinizer recommends to jacekowski to learn COBOL22:47
DocScrutinizer9(8) DISP22:47
jacekowskii had to make one program in cobol22:48
jacekowskidon't remind me it22:48
keriowhy is OOo's splash screen... slanted?22:48
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butt-grabrooo exists on the NIT?  that's a scarey thought22:49
butt-grabrit's not as bloated as ms office, but still pretty bloated for a NIT, I would think22:49
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FIQOOo can be runned within easy debian22:49
ShadowJKI wrote it in bash, it only has integer arithmetic. Using that to unpack the various 4bit usigned, 3 bit unsigned etc ints packed into bytes and then the math to convert to a SI unit is just integer arithmetic was a fun excercise :D22:49
DocScrutinizernobody ever uses computational (== float) in COBOL. Still they manage trillions $ with 0.01ct accuracy, and without problems of values been shown in millicent22:50
tybolltDocScrutinizer: Cobol hackers make filthy amounts of money these days =)22:50
tybolltthe few that are still around =)22:50
FIQugh COBOL..22:50
DocScrutinizertybollt: WHERE?????22:50
ShadowJKWhen you do it ints you have to consider things that ruin precision (things that ruin meaningful precision with floats too) :-)22:51
jacekowskiShadowJK: use bc22:51
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: BS22:51
DocScrutinizerI got spanked for #!/bin/bash22:51
jacekowskiecho "             *7.14 / 20 = " $(( `pv 0x79` * 714 / 2000)) "mA "22:51
ShadowJKI don't need bc :P22:52
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: see??!!!22:52
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: hanks for quoting a nice example how to deal with that22:53
DocScrutinizerbtw a brilliant author22:53
jacekowskiyou see22:53
jacekowskivalue in miliamps22:53
ShadowJKI'd rather pass it on to a separate awk script for doing some more processing, but the basic data acquisition talking to hw should be as simple as possible22:53
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jacekowskiinstead of amps22:53
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you're kinda stubborn, really22:54
ShadowJKI'm sure even Electrical Engineers (which I am not) think in mA ;p22:54
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Stskeepsmm, anyone with a n810 standing by who wants to test an image for me?22:55
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: and inserting a decimal . somewhere in that value, to make jacekowski happy, is a warmup for first class CS students22:55
Stskeepsyou need a 2gb minisd you can wipe22:55
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: lemme find a 2GB. I'll come back when succeed22:56
jacekowskiShadowJK: well, i ussualy deal with devices that have currents in kA22:56
Stskeeps4gb also good22:56
jacekowskiShadowJK: mA are kinda to small for me22:56
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greghaynesAs long at you dont reach megaamps you can store in mA and display as kA23:00
SpeedEvil32 bit microamps is suitable for most computers23:00
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DocScrutinizerecho "             *7.14 / 20 = " $(( `pv 0x79` * 714 / 2000000)) "." $(( (`pv 0x79` * 714 / 2000) - ( `pv 0x79` * 714 / 2000000 * 1000 )) "Ampere "  --  STFU23:01
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jacekowskibut you have to divide it 2 times23:02
jacekowskiwith floats you could do it only one time23:03
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: sorry, I refuse to answer that23:03
Stskeepsproof of concept software rendering meego handset ux on a Nokia N810 (rootfs+kernel),
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: sorry, no flasher available atm23:04
kerioi just want to state this - QTIRRECO FTW23:07
kerioit just needs a way to scale down buttons23:07
jacekowskiwell it doesn't work for me23:07
dotblank[laptop]yea buttons are too big23:07
dotblank[laptop]also feels like whenever I click them the buttons are dragged23:08
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flailingmonkeydotblank[laptop]: agreed, weird drag-behavior when clicking23:25
ShadowJKI'm guessing when a Li-Po feels soft, it's best to put it somewhere fireproof23:25
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ShadowJKLithium Polymer battery23:29
kerioit's feeling... soft?23:30
keriowoah, *not* a good sign there23:31
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: swolen?23:31
ShadowJKI thought it looked a bit thicker than the other of same make and model, so when I picked it up it felt distinctively soft23:31
ShadowJKYeah a bit23:31
ShadowJKthe contents feels gasseous23:31
PhonicUK'lo all23:31
kerioSO not a good sign23:31
ShadowJKIndeed :-)23:32
DocScrutinizergot one BL-5C fake here. Got pregnant when I was heating it to test BSI NTC. Got really hot. Now it's feeling "soft" like a balloon since 6 months23:32
jacekowskiwell, one bloke at work was using phone with swolen battery for about 6 months23:33
DocScrutinizernot this one, it's electrically dead23:33
jacekowskiwell, it was close to dead23:33
kerioDocScrutinizer: i'd throw it away23:33
keriobut it's just me23:33
ShadowJKI only noticed my N810's poorly performing batt was swollen when I got a new one ;p23:33
kerioshould i get some cheap ebay batteries for my n900?23:34
DocScrutinizerhmm, my flat burned down one time. Lightning won't strike twice same spot23:34
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Stskeepsthat better not have been battery or freerunner related23:34
SpeedEvilNaah. Mobs with pitchforks and torches, I'm guessing.23:35
DocScrutinizerthat's been charger/battery related for sure. But probably cheap desktop vacuum with NiMH cells23:35
DocScrutinizerNiMH are much more dangerous than LiXX I'd say23:36
ShadowJKI had a nimh battery melt down on me once ;p23:36
DocScrutinizeryeah, real fun23:36
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ShadowJKDodgy cell from Lidl in known cheapass charger :D23:36
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DocScrutinizerhmm, same like that 27EUR hand vacuum with cells and 'charger'23:37
ShadowJKThe charger's mosfets are constantly near that point where they're too hot to shut down, and the tronic(lidl) cell had huge internal resistance out of the box.. the charger missed termination, and then when it reached the point of thermal shutdown, the mosfets were too hot, and it conitnued to dump several amps into it23:38
ShadowJKuntil the plastic battery holder melted and thus physically severed the connection ;p23:38
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SpeedEviltoo hot to shut down?23:39
SpeedEvilOh - you mean leakage23:39
DocScrutinizermhm. A Siemens Gigaset DECT had similar issue for me once23:39
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DocScrutinizerthough the vacuum had no mosfets or any similar shit, I'm rather sure all silicon it had was a diode bridge23:40
SpeedEvilI have a teeny thing that goes 'BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP' at ~35C.23:40
DocScrutinizeraah, and a LED23:40
SpeedEvilI put it in the right place on battery packs that are under charge23:41
ShadowJKWell in theory you can charge nimh indefinitely at .1C23:41
SpeedEvildoes wonders for the longevity os suff on really cheap chargers23:41
DocScrutinizeranyway my bookshelf is gone since =-(23:41
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ShadowJKI need to get a big hobby charger now23:42
ShadowJKI want to blow up this ballooning pack23:42
DocScrutinizerI've stopped that recharge hobby since. All my devices that use AA(A) are living >12 months with primary cells. NiMH are empty on self discharge after 2 months23:43
ShadowJKNot eneloops :-)23:44
jacekowskii think i sorted my scratchbox problem23:44
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: eneloops are good23:44
cehtehDocScrutinizer: i use eneloop everywhere and be happy23:44
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: that's partialy because of higher voltage in AA23:45
jacekowskii mean i normal primary cells23:45
jacekowskiso charge density is a lot higher23:45
ShadowJKThat's a bit of a myth anyway23:45
jacekowskiwell, charge density IS higher23:45
ShadowJKIf you draw <.05C, sure23:46
jacekowskiand internal resistance is lower23:46
ShadowJKnimh internal resistance is much lower than alkaline's23:47
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mneptokgunh. the e-mail widget has some serious problems being consistent about showing unread mail on GMail.23:48
SpeedEvil'normal' primaries have very, very few edges left over eneloop cells.23:48
SpeedEvilLower weight is about it23:48
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ShadowJKin tv remotes and clocks they can win23:49
SpeedEvilZnCl are actually even better for that - if you can find the low-drain ones.23:50
SpeedEvilWhich you usually can't.23:50
keriothis is possibly the worst form of nerdom, btw23:52
keriobattery nerds23:52
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mneptokmy battery died when it missed a saving throw.23:53
mneptok(battery nerd + D&D nerd = someone's gonna die)23:54
ShadowJKkerio: when you see nerds in the hardware store buying power packs for powertools, you know they're just going to tear it apart to harvest the battery cells inside ;-)23:55
mneptokShadowJK: or they have a first date coming up, and the power tools are camouflage.23:56
kerioShadowJK: i'm a computer nerd23:57
kerioi don't go in stores23:57
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mneptokhow does the N900 handle speed-dial for pizza joints?23:57
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kerioi don't call23:58
redi jumped into swimming pool with the N900 in my pocket23:58
keriored: you... monster23:58
redso I jump boat and ordered HTC Desire x)23:58
greghaynesMake sure to also bathe your HTC23:59
kerioshould've just removed the battery and washed it with distilled water23:59
rednothing wrong with maemo, but want capacitive and less bulk in pocket :)23:59
keriobulk in pocket is for real men!23:59
redkerio: i was in greece, in the water a lot of chlorium and chalk23:59

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