IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-07-10

Cyborg_Yeah but still no voice. Mor or less pointless for driving.00:00
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: huh?  �ber-cool backlight fade-in?00:08
kerioCyborg_: enter the nokia server farm, make a copy of the ovi maps servers, run them locally from within your car00:08
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DocScrutinizerCyborg_: ovi maps has a way to download all the maps, aiui. Some app or similar.00:10
kerioyeah but the actual navigation needs the net00:10
DocScrutinizerCyborg_: the odd thing about ovi maps is the still painfully missing turn-by-turn voice navigation00:10
Cyborg_I know.00:11
DocScrutinizerespecially since you'd think now that Nokia announced they'll sell all future N series with meego, they should know a maemo app for that would be a nice start for the later meego ovi maps00:12
Cyborg_It sucks and there is a surprising number of really stupid errors for my country. But there is no free alternative right?00:12
Cyborg_Yeah but N900 is stuck with Maemo, right?00:12
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: message from nolo00:12
ShapeshifterCyborg_: I think navit works but it's unstable or something.00:13
* DocScrutinizer lols @ NOLO00:13
* DocScrutinizer wasn't aware NOLO gives *any* messages00:13
jacekowskiit does00:13
jacekowskion serial console00:13
jacekowskiloads of them00:13
MohammadAG51"no initfs \o/"00:13
jacekowskithat's kernel i think00:14
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jacekowskino that was xloader00:14
jacekowskiother message it can give00:14
Cyborg_Well I am driving in about a week to a foreign land I don't know and I would really like some good Navi. :9 Or I might get lost.00:15
jacekowskiM:80414A1F                 DCB "Waiting for the kernel to magically appear",0xA,000:15
jacekowskiRAM:80414A65 aYupThereItIs_S DCB "Yup, there it is. Stand by for some Linux pleasure.",0xA,000:15
MohammadAG51i wonder if steve jobs is a contractor00:15
jacekowskiand it looks like nolo has interactive console as well00:15
jacekowskibecause i saw code that looks like a command interpreter00:15
MohammadAG51how are using the serial console?00:15
DocScrutinizeryeah, with rs232 jig00:15
jacekowskiMohammadAG51: static analysis00:15
jacekowskiMohammadAG51: i don't have serial jig00:16
MohammadAG51what type of cable00:16
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: analyze which UART NOLO is using for console!!00:16
keriowait, are those real messages?00:16
jacekowskiRAM:80415474 aAieeeSomeSerio DCB "Aieee! Some serious inconsistency in block versioning",000:16
jacekowskiRAM:804155EC aErrorInPrimary DCB "error in primary config block; trying to use spare",000:17
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jacekowskiRAM:8041561F aErrorSecondary DCB "error secondary config block too; something is really fucked up",000:17
DocScrutinizersounds like some of the NAND fs stuff00:17
keriotell me those are real messages00:18
MohammadAG51nolo says "fucked up"?00:18
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: cal stuff00:18
MohammadAG51kerio, jacekowski doesn't kid00:18
DocScrutinizercal aka the most simple NAND fs ever00:19
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Stskeepsthere's some fun quotes in nolo, yeah00:19
keriowtf is nolo00:19
Stskeepsbootloader on nokia 770,n8x0,n90000:19
kerioi see00:19
DocScrutinizeron OM we called that partition ENV, not CAL iirc00:19
DocScrutinizerNokia LOder00:20
jacekowskiwell, nolo is different on every phone00:20
DocScrutinizerNOkia LOader00:20
* kerio reads about it00:20
keriowtf? not open?00:21
inznolo = embarassing00:21
MohammadAG51kerio, no00:21
DocScrutinizeryou bet it is, like phoenix bios is different on every differend build of laptop00:21
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: happen to know what battery chip sits in a ADP1?00:21
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DocScrutinizerburp, what?00:21
Stskeepsnexus one / android developer phone 100:21
Stskeepser, i mean, G100:22
DocScrutinizerwhat's a ADP1? what's a battery chip?00:22
DocScrutinizeroh nope. Sorry no idea00:22
mgedminwhen you strike a battery really hard with an axe, chips fly off00:22
MohammadAG51mgedmin, orly?00:22
DocScrutinizermgedmin: that's called flares I think00:22
Shapeshifteroh this is just great. I've placed a symlink in /usr/bin/ to my python file in /opt... and this doesn't get translated to the package when it's being built.00:23
Shapeshifterhow awesome is that.00:23
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keriomgedmin: is there a way to do that by software?00:23
MohammadAG51Shapeshifter, make it symlink it in debian/rules00:23
kerioi need it for my n900-frag project00:23
kerioi thought about overheating the battery00:23
keriobut apparently the best i can get is a short life00:24
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ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: mhh00:24
DocScrutinizerkerio: definitely no way00:24
keriowhat about overclocking the cpu and raising the battery voltage at the same time?00:25
DocScrutinizerkerio: if you need a second opinion, then go ask Nokia, they probably will tell you they won't comment as they fear it *might* be possible :-P00:25
* RST38bis opens 6 apps at once, smiling satanically00:25
kerioRST38bis: throw it now!00:26
keriohurry, you only have a month or so before it explodes00:26
DocScrutinizerkerio: what now? making battery detonate, or simply a boring silent death due to overheating or other unspectacular hw failure? the second one is really easy00:27
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DocScrutinizeryou can download my kill-it app from OVI store in 3 weeks :-P00:28
jacekowskii need decent memory map00:28
kerioDocScrutinizer: i was going for a detonation00:28
keriobut i guess the boring silent death with some cool sound and graphic effects is fine too00:29
jacekowskiand omap trm format is unparseable in any usefull way00:29
DocScrutinizerkerio: I might be able to even provide some magic blue smoke00:30
keriowait, how?00:30
* DocScrutinizer thinks about smoking up some speakers...00:31
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DocScrutinizeror the flash LEDs00:32
DocScrutinizeror the cam focus coil00:32
DocScrutinizeror ALL THREE >:-D00:33
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RST38bisthe vibrator00:33
DocScrutinizer51won't smoke00:34
RST38bisDoc is obviously no Cpt Obvious here00:34
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RST38bisfor he is forgetting the mighty Vibrator.00:34
RST38bismental note: add GB RumblePack emulation00:34
jophishHowdy all00:35
jophishCould somebody with a UK based warranty do me a large favour?00:36
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jophishI am unable to complete this because I have a US based warranty00:37
jophishso I can't access the freepost form for sending my phone off.00:37
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unixSnobhow do folks SMS from their n8x0?  Does it require using bluetooth and a phone?00:46
MohammadAG51most probably00:46
MohammadAG51or skype supports sms00:46
MohammadAG51or they consider twitter sms00:46
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unixSnobare there no apps that are aware of all the free gateways?00:48
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: it looks like it's uart 000:49
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I heard it should be 3?00:50
jacekowskithe 1st one00:50
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jacekowskihmm, i thinking about making something like that in C
jacekowskifor N90000:53
jacekowskijust for lulz00:53
jacekowskiso i could tell them to gtfo after they send me c&d letter00:54
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tremnite all, sweet dreams01:31
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ShapeshifterSo, I packaged the game I wrote. Would someone please try it before I announce it on TMO? Should be fine, but maybe something's missing. WFM anyway. The game's called "Maemo Reactor" and it's in extras-devel. It's for 2 players btw. :)01:51
ShapeshifterI have to leave the house but if you have feedback, you can just /q me or whatever ^^01:52
MohammadAG51Shapeshifter, did my tip work? :)01:52
ShapeshifterMohammadAG51: mh I just wrote a small script, had to cd into the dir anyway for the relative paths to work.01:53
Shapeshiftergotta run!01:53
MohammadAG51cya :)01:53
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lardmanevening chaps01:55
lardmanany US N900 users around here?01:56
FireFlyHi, how do I modify the key layout of the N900? (preferably both the hardware keyboard as well as the symbols list, but atm only the former)01:56
FireFlylardman, european I'm afraid :)01:56
lardmanWhat do you recommend by way of pay-as-you-go contract/company?01:56
Ken-Younglardman, I'm a US N900 user.01:56
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Ken-Younglardman, In the US, T-mobile is basically the only choice if you want 3g, isn't it?01:57
lardmanKen-Young: no clue, that's why i ask :)01:58
Ken-Younglardman, I'm pretty sure T-Mobile is the only choice.01:58
lardmanI've read that AT&T also do GSM?01:58
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lardmanhey dneary01:59
dnearyhi there01:59
Ken-YoungThere may be some small regional carrier, but nation-wide only AT&T and T-Mobile are GSM, and AT&T is incompatible with the N900's 3g signals.01:59
Ken-YoungYou could make calls on AT&T, but no 3g data.01:59
lardmanKen-Young: ah ok, well that sort of narrows it down then I guess :) Many thanks02:00
ShadowJKedge data would work though02:00
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dnearylardman, just on my way to bed after driving 13 hours across France.02:00
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lardmandneary: back home?02:00
lardmanYou heading back "home" for the Maemo/Meego summit?02:00
lardmannot sure I can make that unfortunately02:01
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dnearyShould do02:01
dnearyIt's pencilled into the calendar02:02
lardmanI need to check dates, would be a shame to not make it across02:02
* lardman still grumbles as a a GBP conf would surely be cheaper than Euros02:03
lardmanfor everyone02:03
lardmanKen-Young: do you happen to know whether the USA and Canada share phone contracts? I understand the dialing codes are the same?02:04
lardmanKen-Young: I'm over to the US for a couple of weeks then Canada, so thinking if I could get a sim that would cover both that would be useful02:04
ShadowJKI'd go by the assrape principle: If they can fuck you over, they will02:05
* SpeedEvil offers the use of his greenhouse for conferences.02:05
lardmanyeah, just thinking that it must be marginally harder than when I go to France ;)02:05
MohammadAG51whoever made the keyboard sound effects and touch screen sounds is weird02:06
lardmanI mean telcos can't tell the difference between cell ids can they!?02:06
MohammadAG51the touch screen one makes it sound like the device is defective02:06
MohammadAG51the keyboard one is too long to keep up with fast typing02:06
lardmanMohammadAG51: I'm getting that with Windows 7, lots of trumpets02:06
MohammadAG51summit? what summit?02:07
lardmannot to worry02:07
lardmanMohammadAG51: the maemo summit thing02:08
MohammadAG51i know, what date02:08
lardmancan't remember but I think it was early to mid Sept02:09
MohammadAG51oh, just in time w/ school, wonderful02:09
lardmanlooked like I wouldn't be able to make it easily02:09
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ShadowJKMohammadAG51, and you aren't confusing the vibrator as a sound?02:11
MohammadAG51ShadowJK, nope02:12
keriopupnik_: ew02:13
dannymhmm, what is in the file /etc/apt/sources.list of fremantle in scratchbox usually?02:13
pupnik_it's what's for breakfast kerio02:14
MohammadAG514 lines dannym02:14
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dannymMohammadAG51: which ones? :)02:16
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MohammadAG51dannym, sdk ones, they're on http://repository.maemo.org02:16
MohammadAG51i'm away from an sdk atm02:16
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dannymMohammadAG51: mine looks like that:
dannymMohammadAG51: I got it by first copying the sources.list from the device over and then adapting the ones I had in the Diablo scratchbox and adding them, too. Is there an official way how to do it?02:19
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MohammadAG51are the default fremantle ones02:19
dannymMohammadAG51: ah, thanks02:19
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dannymMohammadAG51: the reason why I'm messing with it (worked fine for some time) is that I wanted to install fbreader's build dependencies02:21
dannymMohammadAG51: got some message that said I should do "apt-get -f install", so I did. And then that happens:
MohammadAG51not sure tbh, reinstall from scratch? :)02:24
MohammadAG51or apt-get install apt and the other packages in NEW02:24
dannymMohammadAG51: yeah, probably the easiest way... will try :)02:25
MohammadAG51infobot, maemosdk02:25
infobotrumour has it, maemosdk is
infobotMohammadAG51: thanks02:25
MohammadAG51infobot, $5002:26
* infobot takes the cash and sucks mohammadag51 off02:26
MohammadAG51xD @ whoever made that02:26
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dannym"apt-get install apt" didn't help, so I did "dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/apt*", that helped. Weird...02:32
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dannymMohammadAG51: thanks :)02:38
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luke-jris it practical to remove pulseaudio from Maemo5?02:47
luke-jrsince it is the biggest memory user...02:47
pupnik_i spent a bit of time investigating that luke-jr - you would lose a lot of features02:49
luke-jrpupnik_: such as?02:50
luke-jrapp or hardware?02:51
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MohammadAG51app, doh02:52
luke-jrI could live with that I think02:52
luke-jrI need to replace the app anyway02:52
MohammadAG51right... how?02:52
luke-jractually, I just need to replace the telepathy backend02:52
luke-jrand there are other telepathy frontends already02:53
MohammadAG51yes, but the phone daemon is closed afaik02:53
MohammadAG51as well as the modem driver02:53
luke-jrMohammadAG51: the telepathy piece?02:53
luke-jrhow am I going to modify it then?02:53
luke-jrisn't there an ofono implementation that's open?02:53
MohammadAG51you're not :)02:53
luke-jrI need to02:53
MohammadAG51see MeeGo02:54
luke-jrI want to use DNS queries to dial02:54
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lardmannight chaps02:54
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luke-jrthat is, query, and have my server call me back ;)02:54
luke-jr(DNS always works, even without data service)02:55
microlithwithin a few weeks or so there should be a release of ofono that will work without closed bits on the N90002:55
MohammadAG51i felt the same02:56
luke-jralso want a daemon to log my GPS position via DNS to my server too...02:56
luke-jrShadowJK: ?02:56
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ShadowJKblobless ofono02:56
* MohammadAG51 doubts that02:56
ShadowJKthat's why my first reaction was 'lol?'02:56
MohammadAG51i know02:57
paroneayeamicrolith: where do you get this information?03:00
paroneayeablobless ofono is relevant to my interests.03:00
microliththat's the impression I get from the forum and ml, maybe it's wrong?03:00
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microlithI'm wondering what value there is in keeping a closed blob03:01
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paroneayeaI don't see any value in it, but it's a longstanding, depressing "tradition" :P03:01
SpeedEvilKeeping what?03:01
SpeedEvilThere are many reasons03:01
ShadowJKUnfortunately nokia no longer owns the modem03:01
ShadowJKthey sold it to japan03:01
paroneayeaSpeedEvil: <microlith> within a few weeks or so there should be a release of ofono that will work without closed bits on the N90003:01
SpeedEvila common one is that it was simply developed without thought that it may be wanted to be open03:02
SpeedEvilso the contracts were not written to permit it03:02
paroneayeaI'm out03:02
luke-jrSpeedEvil: Excuses*03:02
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SpeedEvilIt's not actually an excuse - it's a valid point.03:02
SpeedEvilThe question then arises 'why weren't...'03:03
SpeedEvilwhich is a much harder question for a supposedly open platform03:03
microlithwell, it has no impact on -meego- proper, since it's a hardware specific question at that point. Maemo, however...03:03
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luke-jrmicrolith: Maemo has always been a closed platform03:05
Stskeepsofono already works on n900, fwiw03:10
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Stskeepswe made a call (without audio, didnt have proper audio in kernel), so03:11
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SpeedEvildoes data work?03:12
Stskeepsdidn't check03:14
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Nomais there now a proper solution to make maemo and meego dualboot?03:15
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luke-jrStskeeps: without pulseaudio? :p03:15
Stskeepsluke-jr: i said no audio, but to my knowledge pulseaudio plugins exist for this purpose, not so much alsa :P03:15
luke-jrStskeeps: Kopete?03:16
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FIQWhat's the keymap code for & and %?03:21
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Shapeshifterampersand and percent?03:33
Shapeshifteror what do you mean.03:33
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FIQspapeshifter, thanks03:42
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FIQand btw03:49
FIQwhy does holding shift+fn and click z/x or j/k giving both of them's fn-char03:49
FIQi mean, in same time - two chars get output03:50
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PhonicUKanyone around got mupen64 installed on their N900?04:08
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SpeedEvilFIQ: hardware limit IIRC04:10
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SpeedEvilin that shift-fn-z also connects shift-fn-y - indirectly through the switches in series04:12
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pigeonhmm, on the n900 can i search my contacts by a number?04:48
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GeneralAntilleslbt, a bit.05:12
GeneralAntilleslbt, we had a few new wiki pages05:12
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Termanagood morning05:12
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GeneralAntillesLionbridge is working on some stuff.05:13
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DocScrutinizer(<FIQ> why does holding shift+fn and click z/x or j/k giving both of them's fn-char) that's because of Nokia EE fsckd it up with building a decent hw matrix for kbd, with dedicated "wires" for all qualifier keys. So keeping pressed shift+Fn shorts the matrix in a way you can't distinguish between z/x or j/k, so the driver thinks both are pressed while in fact you just press j OR k08:14
jaemDid you determine that by deduction, or otherwise?08:15
jaemI mean, it makes sense, but I'm curious.08:15
DocScrutinizersame problem with ctrl+shift, or ctrl+Fn, just other keypairs that get shorted08:15
DocScrutinizerI looked on the schematics08:15
jaemDocScrutinizer, Oh, in that service manual that's floating around?08:16
* jaem meant to look through that08:16
DocScrutinizerthe worst thing: Nokia had a couple of unused matrix inputs unused, which they could have assigned exclusively to the qualifier keys, at no additional cost08:17
DocScrutinizeroops, -1*unused08:18 needs to die08:18
DocScrutinizerneed coffee08:18
Macerdo actual people use
Maceror is it just a cesspool of asian spam ?08:18
DocScrutinizerjaem: the chip has 8*8 matrix. Go figure08:19
DocScrutinizerjaem: and they couldn't manage to give a separate row or col line to those 3 qualifier keys08:20
arachnistMacer: has no A record08:20
DocScrutinizerwould have left them with 5*8 for the remaining, err 30?08:20
arachnistMacer: nor CNAME for that matter08:20
Macerarachnist: go figure08:22
Macerheh... they have like a ton of subnets08:22
Maceri don't think they have the A record because people would block the entire domain so they probably found a way around it08:22
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kerioluke-jr: use DNS tunnelling08:26
luke-jrkerio: less efficient :)08:27
luke-jrkerio: but I plan to, for regular IP08:27
luke-jrnstx doesn't work though08:27
luke-jrT-Mobile blocks TXT replies08:27
keriowell, you need to encode IP addresses then08:28
luke-jrwhich has very limited bandwidth08:28
luke-jrdepending on how many A records I can return08:28
keriowait, what's tmob's ipv6 support?08:28
DocScrutinizerI mean I'm not talking about spending 0.20$ for some 35 diodes to get real N-key rollover. Just a simple different layout and circuit. an additional trace on the PCB. Delta-BOM == 0.00$08:28
luke-jrkerio: no idea, I'm building this with the assumption that I don't have data service08:28
luke-jr(still plan to get data service, but doing this first is more fun)08:29
luke-jriff I can return 256 A records per query, that gives me 768 MTU08:29
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luke-jrif only 16 A records per reply, 56 bytes :/08:31
luke-jrwhich complicates things since that's mostly header08:31
keriouse CNAME records08:32
luke-jrkerio: ah, right08:32
luke-jrthat was my plan, I forgot it XD08:32
DocScrutinizermoo hax0rs ;-P08:32
luke-jrassume T-Mobile doesn't try to resolve the CNAME and return the A it resolves to08:32
luke-jrbut I'll find out soon enough08:33
luke-jrinstalling Gentoo in a chroot so I can use dig08:33
DocScrutinizeryou're aware jebba had created a rather complete debian build repo for native maemo?08:34
luke-jrbut I want Gentoo, not Debian08:34
kerioisn't there dig in easy debian?08:34
arachnistwho cares about debian? ;P08:34
luke-jrDebian isn't optimized for a handheld08:34
DocScrutinizeraah so gentoo is?08:34
arachnistluke-jr: sicko... but i do have an arm device running gentoo (though it's not the N900)08:35
DocScrutinizertbh I give a shit for a handheld-optimized dig executable08:35
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: Gentoo is a meta-distribution; it is optimized for whatever you want08:35
luke-jrarachnist: my N810 is Gentoo-only08:35
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: obviously it's not *just* for dig08:36
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: aren't you oversimplifying? just a itsy tiny lil bit?08:36
TermanaDocScrutinizer, grab the van. We're going in to arrest these Gentoo punks08:36
* arachnist recompiles Termana on his openrd-client08:36
MohammadAG51kerio, i have dig compiled and packaged as "dig"08:36
DocScrutinizer~gentoo luke-jr08:36
WormFoodluke-jr, are you trying to tunnel traffic through dns on your own, or use existing tools?08:36
MohammadAG51for maemo08:36
* infobot recompiles luke-jr again08:36
infobotkerio: thanks08:37
luke-jrWormFood: the existing tools are blocked08:37
WormFoodyou tried iodine?08:37
luke-jrMohammadAG51: honestly, I didn't look for dig :)08:37
MohammadAG51you'd expect iputils08:37
luke-jrit was tcpdump and a few others that made me give up on standard *nix tools in Maemo08:37
luke-jryeah, iproute208:37
infobot:), kerio08:38
MohammadAG51but busybox is too fucked up to allow iputils to install08:38
luke-jrMohammadAG51: iputils is distinct from iproute2?08:38
luke-jrmy router (with Busybox) has iproute2...08:38
MohammadAG51not sure what iproute2 is, but iputils* has all net binaries in ubuntu08:38
MohammadAG51so i packaged that08:38
luke-jriproute2 is the 'ip' command08:38
MohammadAG51oh, then yeah, it's not the same08:39
WormFoodI installed my N800 OS to my flash (sd) card, and I didn't have to make any partitions, like all the instructions tell you to do....but, i'm not able to activate a swap file through the GUI (should be able to it on the command line)08:39
jaemOh hai, WormFood08:40
WormFoodhi jaem08:40
luke-jrI don't get why Maemo 5 still uses all the obsolete *nix tools08:40
luke-jrifconfig, route, apt, etc08:40
jaemDoesn't the GUI make a swapfile, rather than a partition?08:40
MohammadAG51hey, it's maemo!08:40
WormFoodit does not make a partition, it uses a swap file08:40
MohammadAG51apt isn't obsolete08:40
WormFoodbut either way, it won't do it with the way I installed it.08:40
luke-jrMohammadAG51: has been in Debian for years at least08:41
luke-jrMohammadAG51: aptitude has replaced it08:41
MohammadAG51luke-jr, i compiled aptitude08:41
jaemWormFood, that's what I was asking.  I'm not sure about the N800, but IIRC the N810 stores the swap file on one of the cards (internal)08:41
MohammadAG51but it's kinda borked (libcwidget is actually)08:41
jaemCould it be that your setup is just confusing it?  -shrug-08:41
luke-jrjaem: N810 doesn't have swap by default at all08:41
jaemluke-jr, I know, but you can create one automagically08:41
jaemin the settings dialog that WormFood was talking about.08:42
luke-jro rly?08:42
luke-jroh well08:42
luke-jrI just finished moving my N900 swap to MicroSD08:42
MohammadAG51luke-jr, imho, aptitude isn't all that great08:42
MohammadAG51it's a bit confusing tbh08:42
luke-jrwhich is faster, and replacable08:42
luke-jrMohammadAG51: aptitude uses all the same commands as apt, except you don't have to guess at which apt-* prefix to use08:43
MohammadAG51luke-jr, oh, only tried the UI part of it08:43
luke-jroh top of that, aptitude tracks dependencies correctly08:43
luke-jrwhen removing packages08:43
Termanaon top*08:44
MohammadAG51luke-jr, then install it :)08:44
MohammadAG51it works, the UI is what's broken08:44
MohammadAG51package name is aptitude08:44
jaemluke-jr, which class is your card?08:45
jaemAnd are there specs for the eMMC posted somewhere?08:45
luke-jrjaem: dunno08:45
luke-jrI used sync; dd; sync to test them08:45
jaemHeh, that works, I guess.08:45
jaemClass 6 8GB cards were expensive when I bought mine, and I wasn't sure how a Class 4 card would compare.08:45
luke-jrwell, N900 only has 2 GB card08:46
luke-jrI put 1 GB to swap, and 1 GB to /var/tmp/portage08:46
luke-jrI figure those are the most often changing parts08:46
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luke-jrMohammadAG51: Package aptitude is not available, but is referred to by another package.08:50
MohammadAG51luke-jr, devel enabled?08:51
luke-jrwtf? :)08:51
MohammadAG51LOL what?! Reinstallation of aptitude is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.08:51
MohammadAG51not really08:52
MohammadAG51someone took it down08:52
luke-jrsomeone complained it didn't work, so removed it?08:52
MohammadAG51-devel doesn't work that way08:52
MohammadAG51luke-jr, lol
luke-jrtoo lazy to open browser08:53
MohammadAG51it's there08:53
MohammadAG51need to ping X-Fade about this08:54
luke-jrMohammadAG51: any way to actually install from a .deb with apt?08:55
MohammadAG51not that I know of08:55
MohammadAG51dpkg -i it08:55
MohammadAG51then apt-get -f install08:56
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Macerluke-jr: putting gentoo on the n900? :)09:06
Macerlet me know how that works out09:06
luke-jrMohammadAG51: wtf?09:06
MohammadAG51luke-jr, what?09:06
luke-jrdpkg -i obviously says deps not met09:06
MohammadAG51apt-get -f install after it09:07
MohammadAG51apt newbie09:07
luke-jrdpkg -i obviously says deps not met09:07
MohammadAG51ok, so?09:07
MohammadAG51apt-get -f install09:07
luke-jrso why run it at all09:07
MohammadAG51to solve deps...09:07
luke-jrdpkg installs even after saying no deps?09:07
MohammadAG51luke-jr, n00b!!!09:07
luke-jri c09:08
MohammadAG51it stops installation @ postinst file09:08
MohammadAG51unpacking is actually done09:08
MohammadAG51so you have aptitude now, but it might not work09:08
luke-jr  aptitude: Depends: libcwidget3 but it is not installable09:08
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MohammadAG51why is it broken like this09:10
luke-jrcuz I don't have extras-devel09:11
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MohammadAG51oh tower bloxx is on the store09:18
dr34mhm i think my battery died. phone wont charge nor start. orange lamp is only lit when i connect the charger.. anybody had that before ?09:19
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keriodr34m: wait until the led stops being orange09:21
kerioit's the failsafe charging mode09:21
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Macerso has android gotten on the n900 yet?09:26
pupnik_yes, no.  buckets and lollipops.09:26
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MohammadAG512.1? meh09:28
MohammadAG51it runs 2.209:28
Macerawesome thanks09:28
arachnistbut phonet still isn't supported, right?09:28
MohammadAG51nope, they got data (3G) for 30 minutes09:29
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luke-jrwhat is trackerd?09:34
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ShadowJKIt indexes your files09:35
ShadowJKthumbnails your pictures09:35
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luke-jrso just how bad is this "one network connection" limitation?09:36
luke-jrcan I do 3G + USBnet?09:36
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Macerone network connection limitation?09:39
Maceri just stopped wifi tethering09:39
luke-jrMacer: I asked earlier about doing wifi + 3G at the same time...09:39
Macerisnt that more than 1 networ?09:39
Termanaarachnist, not totally yet09:39
luke-jrMacer: I was told it isn't possible09:39
Appiahit's possible , just not by the gui's in maemo09:40
luke-jrGAN900 said it was a kernel limitation09:40
Appiah(thats one I been told)09:40
Termanaarachnist, getting signal indications. No Data/Calls yet though.09:40
Macerluke-jr: then install a new kernel09:40
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Macerisnt there an advanced kernel on the repos?09:40
luke-jrand I've heard rumours of kernels that automatically overclock09:41
TermanaMacer, its more to do with the kernel version rather than Nokia's specific build - AFAIK09:41
luke-jrwhich I dont' want to risk doing09:41
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Maceroc your n900 to 1GHz09:41
TermanaKill your n900, slowly09:41
Macerthe one on the repo doesnt automatically do it09:41
Maceryou have to do it manually and save it if you want to keep running it like that09:42
MacerTermana: it will be obsolete in a year or so anyways09:42
TermanaAre you kidding? Its probably "obsolete" now09:42
ShadowJKThere's nothing to replace it :(09:43
ShadowJK(that doesn't require months of hacking)09:43
TermanaShadowJK, you can not like cars and roam the streets on horses, but that doesn't mean that form of transportation isn't obsolete.09:45
Maceryeah. nitdroid isnt worth it09:46
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ShadowJKtermana: sure but I can stick with my present car that has round wheels and a steering wheel09:47
ShadowJKas everything else has hexagonal wheels and and a big lever instead of steering wheel :(09:48
jaemShadowJK, isn't the round wheel patented, though? :P09:48
Macerwhats wrong with a hexagonal steering wheel?09:48
ShadowJKno the wheels09:49
Macerthe n900 has a lot of kick to it left09:49
Maceri just got rid og my g1 today09:49
TermanaI hate to break it to everyone, but the general consumer market has obsoleted most things the n900 has. QWERTY keyboards are mostly gone, resistive screens are the past, capacitive is "in". Hell, even Nokia is going this direction.09:49
MacerTermana: the qwerty is a matter of choice09:50
jaemTermana, changed direction != obseleted.09:50
Maceri will never get a phone without one09:50
jaemTermana, the touch panel is also a matter of choice09:50
Maceri HATE on screen kbs09:50
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Termanajaem, what major manufacture is still producing phones with resistive touch?09:50
TermanaNokia is the only one I can think of ATM09:50
jaemTermana, that wasn't my point.09:50
lcukn900portrait n900 needs vkb09:50
jaemMy point was that it isn't an inferior technology merely because few products use it.09:51
Macern900 needs portrait first :-P09:51
jaemAt least, not necessarily.09:51
ShadowJKany new device would absolutely have to have qwerty, and if it was capacitive it would have to quadruple hw specs before I considered giving up resistive :)09:51
lcukn900even with real one there are usecases for not having one as well09:51
Termanajaem, if there is no choice, then it isn't a matter of choice is it - because you have none09:51
Maceropera has a nice vkb on the n90009:51
* jaem glares at Termana 09:51
ShadowJKMy sister bought a samsung with resistive touchscreen last month btw09:51
lcukn900yeah macer09:51
ShadowJKnot that it makes a difference on that particular phone :)09:52
DocScrutinizer51c-ts is the solution for poorly designed r-ts09:52
jaemTermana, They both have strengths and weaknesses.  I prefer one over the other - therefore if I can't get a phone with the one I like, I'm disappointed.  That's really all there is to it.  I'm not trying to pick a fight.09:52
Macerall that i know is that i will never own a phone without a hw qwerty ever again09:52
* lcukn900 likes sliding on baconfat - on capacitive touch liqbase is niiiiice but i cant write notes09:53
DocScrutinizer51in fact c-ts is inferior to r-ts in almost all aspects09:53
jaemlcukn900, good point.09:53
Termanajaem, who said anything about fighting? I'm just having a mutual discussion. And I think your assuming *I* like capacitive over resistive.09:53
luke-jrMacer: QWERTY is useless for phones09:53
Macerluke-jr: works fine for me :)09:53
arachnistbut phones are not just phones anymore09:53
jaemTermana, sorry, you just came across a bit forceful.  No offense meant. ;)09:53
luke-jrMacer: there is no need to ever type letters on a phone09:53
ShadowJKI wouldn't feel much of a loss if N900 didn't do voice calls ;)09:54
Maceris this sarcasm? ;)09:54
jaemluke-jr, How do you recompile your kernel without letters?09:54
luke-jrlcukn900: then it's not a phone :)09:54
Termanajaem, sorry don't mean to seem forceful :)09:54
Macerno typing!09:54
arachnistluke-jr: xterm + ssh + irssi on my N900 happen to disagree09:54
luke-jrarachnist: N900 isn't a phone09:54
jaemluke-jr, it "has a" phone...09:54
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lcukn900luke-jr stop being a git.  telephones should have wires and circle dialer09:54
Macerlcukn900: agreed09:54
ShadowJKphone feature can be made very simple: you just need one button, "Hang up". Saves your time, too :)09:54
luke-jrjaem: sure, but I don't see QWERTY in the phone app :D09:55
jaemlcukn900, what you're looking for is this, then:
luke-jrShadowJK: seriously, I recently saw a phone with nothing but digits and maybe a hangup button09:55
luke-jrand I think a LED display for caller id09:55
luke-jrand yes, it was a cell phone09:55
luke-jrnot even volume controls tho09:55
lcukn900jaem i am in the middle of nowhere with analog 1g phone reception09:55
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luke-jr1G supports data?09:55
Macerluke-jr: there are letters on the numbers09:56
lcukn900i aint opening weblinks09:56
lcukn900its almost smoke signals09:56
lcukn900lag is measured in days09:56
yigalanyone dig into using cell writer on n900?09:56
luke-jrwhat was pre-1G called? :P09:56
luke-jrbesides "analog"09:56
arachnistexcept that smoke signals are more reliable09:56
lcukn900yes yigal09:56
yigalhow is it going?09:56
ShadowJKluke-jr, it wasn't standardized09:56
jaemlcukn900, Ah.  The link was to a hobbyist electronics company that sells real classic glossy red/black rotary telephones, retrofitted with battery+cell.09:56
lcukn900yigal search09:56
jaemThey still use the original dialer and ringer. :P09:56
ShadowJKbut .fi has ARP and then NMT09:56
luke-jrShadowJK: neither were 2G or 3G09:56
yigallcukn900: I have, I've looked at several youtube videos with it in action09:57
lcukn900then install it and see09:57
lcukn900for yourself09:57
yigalI feel that09:57
lcukn900i have a grand total of 4 batteries with me09:58
lcukn900no power anywhere09:58
yigalI should get at least another one09:58
MohammadAG513 here09:58
lcukn900i have 2 n900s tho09:58
Macerwhat else is using omap?09:58
jaemlcukn900, lol.  Yeah, I was doing that for a while too.09:58
* luke-jr was surprised to find his mother-in-law's laptop couldn't charge his N900 when he visited...09:58
* ShadowJK has the original battery, and 2400mAh mugen battery :D09:58
jaem"aw snap, my battery's dead.  Oh well... pull out the other one."09:59
luke-jrluckily I had my netbook in the car, which charges it fine...09:59
lcukn900jaem doing what?09:59
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jaemlcukn900, carrying backup N900s09:59
kerioShadowJK: did you buy a usb dongle to do the hotswap?09:59
ShadowJKluke-jr, windows usb drivers are a bit fucked, they often decline request for power for no reason09:59
jaemSadly I have less to play with these days.  I do have a 5800XM, but I haven't had time to work with it much.09:59
ShadowJKkerio, no09:59
lcukn900lol jaem they arent backups like that10:00
Macerjaem: you never know when you need to use 2 death rays10:00
luke-jrShadowJK: I didn't install any drivers.10:00
ShadowJKkerio, and where can you buy that10:00
jaemMacer, O_o10:00
lcukn900im testing adhoc stuff later10:00
luke-jrShadowJK: USB doesn't provide power otherwise?10:00
lcukn900we are going in caves10:00
jaemMacer, is that in -devel?10:00
Macerthings get hairy at debconf10:00
lcukn900no cloud10:00
jaemlcukn900, whereabouts are you?10:00
Macerjaem: no. easter egg10:00
ShadowJKluke-jr, the N900 requests 500mA from the windows usb stack, windows usb stack says NO10:00
jaemMacer, Aren't there liability concerns?10:00
Macerjaem: no. easter egg10:00
Macergo to pkg manager and add death ray as a repo then cancel10:00
Macerjaem: they added a disclaimer10:01
yigalfeel that10:01
kerioMacer: or just apt-get lasercow10:01
ShadowJKLinux USB stack has more of a "Yeah fine, whatever" to power management :)10:01
yigalapt-get install starwars10:01
lcukn900jaem lake district.  north england10:01
Macerkerio: sure. take the easy apt route10:01
yigalapt-get install hbomb10:02
kerioyigal: i'm thinking about a way to do that10:02
Maceryigal: they took that off the repos10:02
Macersaid phones that have it are Nphones of concern"10:02
yigalI thought it was in devel10:02
kerioso far it's overpower the battery, overclock the cpu, start flashing the led and put loud white noise on the speakers10:02
ian_rmorning all10:03
Macerkerio: that would be awesome10:03
keriono explosions though :(10:03
JaffaMorning, all10:03
yigalowell, at least I don't need to reflash the n90010:03
jaemJaffa, Happy Weekend!10:03
Jaffajaem: You too!10:03
Macerkerio: ever break into a friends car and turn the radio on full blast and the blinkers and the window wipers then turn it off and wait for the fun?10:04
kerioMacer: oh god are you watching me10:05
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kerioGET OUT OF MY HEAD10:05
Macerthe app to do that remotely is on devel too10:05
Macerjust stay away from the exploding gas tank option10:06
yigalough "Who Am I" by "Snoop Dogg" on "The Very Best Of Deathrow (Explicit)"10:07
lcukn900n900@works when wet. screen is watery rained on10:07
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Macerwell. i guess i have to wait for tomorrows zimbra daily report to see if my constructive iptables rules have managed to block all of hinet.net10:07
Macerlcukn900: yeah.. but does it work submerged?10:07
Maceri think not10:07
MohammadAG51damn compressing shit takes time10:08
Macerreal phones work underwater10:08
MohammadAG51what's an imx51?10:08
lcukn900no they dont old ones have paper speakers etc10:08
RST38hMooo, punks10:09
lcukn900yo rst10:09
RST38hlcuk: How is suffering this weekend? =)10:09
MohammadAG51--exclude in tar is borked lol10:10
lcukn900suffering what10:10
lcukn900im sat in cold damp rain cos my tent leaked and its dryer in the rain sat up than laywn10:10
RST38hShit, that is not suffering10:11
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RST38hIt is +30oC here with no rain and nowhere to run10:11
lcukn900ahhh bad10:12
RST38hYea, any time10:12
RST38h(at least as long as you have got cold rain there)10:12
lcukn900you have extreme winters10:12
RST38hNot really10:12
RST38h2 weeks a -30 is not extreme10:13
RST38hAnd it is -5..-15 for the rest of the winter10:13
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lcukn900sure its the 49 weeks at -29 that get ya.  summer is one week of +3010:13
mneptokpffft .... 30C is not hot. and define "no rain."10:13
ian_rlcukn900, i saw your conversation with GA about maemo theming bugs in the logs the other day, and you were asking why bugs weren't filed long ago. in fact they were. check out maemo bug 3659, for example.10:14
povbotBug Changing icon theme requires reboot to be applied correctly10:14
jaemmneptok, #define NO_RAIN10:14
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jaemmneptok, happy?10:14
RST38hlcuk: Summers are pretty regular here10:14
lcukn900ian_r thanks for digging.  i cannot see web stuff now10:14
mneptokjaem: no, what's that underscore? escape the space like i asked. ;)10:14
jaemmneptok, -grin-10:14
lcukn900but can you mail link to liquid@gmail please10:15
RST38hmoo, slonopotamus10:15
lcukn900ill check when i get back10:15
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ian_rheh np lcukn900. i didn't actually have to dig for it cause i just had it reopened yesterday :/10:16
jaemIs Remote Debugging from QtCreator to the N900 borked, or am I just Doing it Wrong?10:16
DocScrutinizer51RST38h: relgular summer every year? ;-P10:16
RST38hDoc: yeah more or less10:17
slonopotamusRST38h: morn10:17
lcukn900ian_r good for you, thanks i think10:17
RST38hjaem: <AVOID>10:17
lcukn900if its a problem it needs sorting :p10:17
jaemRST38h, Is there any sane way to debug programs, then, short of GDB on-device in the terminal?10:17
lcukn900gdb on device is fine10:18
RST38hjaem: printf()s to the ssh session10:18
jaemRST38h, yes, but I meant interactive debugging.10:18
RST38hlcuk is right, gdb on device is ok, if you can stand gdb10:18
* lcukn900 has many many printfs10:18
RST38hjaem: No.10:18
DocScrutinizer51anybody ever used kgdb?10:18
* RST38h tried, still sucks10:18
jaemDocScrutinizer51, I read that as kgb...10:18
RST38hDoc: There is also Nemiver10:19
jaemlcukn900, RST38h, The problem is that I need interactive debugging, and I need the controls/log on a separate screen.10:19
RST38hDoc: I used it a few times, seems to be the most comfortable of gdb shells10:19
DocScrutinizer51err kdbg?10:19
lcukn900jaem ssh10:19
jaemlcukn900, yeah, I was hoping to avoid that...10:19
RST38hjaem: I also need a few things. Does not mean I am gonna get them.10:19
jaemRST38h, exactly10:19
ShadowJKjaem: gdb on device, displayed on a 26" monitor attached to your pc, using ssh10:20
jaemRST38h, I wasn't complaining, just clarifying10:20
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yigal:D"Harlem Streets" by "Immortal Technique" on "Revolutionary Vol.2 (Explicit)"10:20
jaemShadowJK, Yes, I will probably have to, but I was hoping to not have to deal with GDB in the command line.10:20
jaemAh well10:20
DocScrutinizer51RST38h: how to debug kernel on arm?10:20
RST38hjaem: Try Nemiver10:20
RST38hjaem: It appears to allow connections to remote targets10:20
lcukn900i want a cig.  i can see them but i cant get em10:20
ShadowJKlots of printf10:20
jaemSorry, though, are you all saying that debugging in Creator /is/ broken, or just suggesting alternatives?10:20
RST38hDoc: kprintf()? :)10:21
* lcukn900 goes grabbing keys10:21
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: yeah. hate that10:21
RST38hjaem: We are all saying that debugging with gdb is pain10:21
lcukn900jaem wasnt thinking qt10:21
jaemYeah, I got that, thanks. -_-10:21
RST38hjaem: And there is no other debugging for n90010:21
jaemAlrighty, then.10:21
RST38hjaem: So, if you can find a decent gdb shell for your desktop and connect it to the n900, you should be ok10:21
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jaemOkay, great.10:21
RST38hjaem: So far, Nemiver looks like the least painful gdb shell10:22
RST38hBut your mileage may vary10:22
lcukn900what does qt sdk use for debugging10:22
jaemlcukn900, it has options to remotely debug using gdb on the phone, I believe.10:22
DocScrutinizer51err, segv?10:22
RST38hlcuk: Same gdb, just with some crap on top10:22
jaemIn some fashion... I'm not familiar with GDB much yet.10:22
lcukn900ok cool10:23
jaemlcukn900, problem is, it doesn't seem to work for me.  I've heard rumblings from a while back that it doesn't work at all, but I don't know if that is/was true, or if I am just missing something.10:23
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jaemHence my original question.10:23
RST38hremote debugging is difficult to set up10:24
RST38hso, for people who couldn't do it, it does not work.10:24
RST38hat all, yes :)10:24
lcukn900strangely windows mobile had it10:24
DocScrutinizer51but cool when it works10:24
lcukn900does iphone or android do it10:24
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RST38hlcuk: WinMo has special facilities in the Visual Studio10:24
RST38hlcuk: Microsoft took care that debugging WinMo apps feels about the same in Visual Studio10:25
jaemSigh... sorry, but at this time of night, I'm just getting confused.  Could one person answer my original question with no cynicism or veiled humour, please? >_<10:25
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* DocScrutinizer51 muses about a userland kernel to debug that one friggin driver10:25
RST38hNO. Go sleep now.10:26
jaemRST38h, okay, thanks.  Don't mind me - I've just had a long day. :)10:26
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, which driver?10:27
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DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: guess! ;-)10:27
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ShadowJKI can't think of anything sensible you'd be doing in kernel :)10:29
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: starts with M like mentorgrafix10:29
ShadowJKoh, usb10:29
* ShadowJK had entirely forgotten usb host :-)10:30
RST38husb can be done in userland, can't it?10:30
ShadowJKnot this10:30
ShadowJKThe usb stack has interface for userland to talk with usb devices, but that of course depends on functioning kernelside drivers10:31
ShadowJKAnd re hostmode, talking to usb devices isn't the issue, talking to the usb controller and convincing it to do things10:32
Izzehanyone know how to fix TV out not working?10:32
Izzehhad it going 3 days ago... and just getting black screen with sound on 4 different TVs and 2 different cables10:32
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lcukn900:( tv out10:33
ShadowJKmaybe it broke10:33
lcukn9002 devices and both failed.  bah10:33
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lcukn900then they work on all different times10:34
DocScrutinizer51works like a charm here10:34
lcukn900does for me now10:35
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Izzehbah many others have posted same issue.. but only response that some have given was "hit it" x.x10:35
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DocScrutinizer51just audio is WAY too low10:36
DocScrutinizer51Izzeh: there are some notes about sequence how to connect it, in maual. That's why I said RTFM10:37
DocScrutinizer51it's a diff if you first plug to TV or first to N90010:37
Izzehtried both ways.. on 4 different TVs10:38
Izzehone I bought a week a go and a 23 year old 100kg job10:38
DocScrutinizer51I guess when you got a crapy TV you first need to plug cable to N90010:38
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DocScrutinizer51of course you need correct PAL/NTSC setting on N900. And correct input selection for TV10:40
Izzehgot that10:42
DocScrutinizer51and you need to use correct plugs on TV ;-)10:42
Izzehit was working 3 days ago, not to mention I've been doing it for 6 months now10:42
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DocScrutinizer51so it brole all of a sudden from a known good setup?10:43
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IzzehI reflashed since then10:43
Izzehlol =/10:43
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Izzehyeah I'm not so quick to jump at that10:43
Izzehgiven several others that have experienced it have had it work later10:43
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DocScrutinizer51check headset microphone and button work ok10:44
DocScrutinizer51same contacts on AV10:44
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DocScrutinizer51AV receptacle is known to have contact issues occasionally10:45
Izzehrecognizes headset10:45
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IzzehI can't recall.. does it have an icon in status bar with tv out? (even the headphone one?)10:45
DocScrutinizer51mic operation?10:45
dr34mkerio: still there? i waited now for about an hour or smth and the orange light went off.. phone wont start still tho damnit looks like dead :(10:45
RST38hAnyone else noticed that the green device-charged light overrides whatever email/im notifications you have got?10:46
RST38hso, when the device is plugged into the charger, you cannot see notifications?10:46
DocScrutinizer51RST38h: check prio of patterns in mce.ini10:47
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Izzehalright yeah.. mic is working10:48
DocScrutinizer51got no notification so can't check now.and I usually keep device on when on charger10:48
IzzehI actually have it in my head that this has happened before.. and solved itself.. but I can't be certain10:48
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DocScrutinizer51Izzeh: double check you plugged the yellow RCA jack to video in on TV10:50
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Izzehlol I did.. several times10:52
DocScrutinizer51Izzeh: reboot. some fb daemon or video hw might've gone apeshit10:52
Izzehall 4 TVs detect it.. but it only shows black screen10:52
Izzehdone it :'(10:52
Izzehand pulled battery for 5 mins10:52
Izzehand blew in the hole10:52
Izzehand hit it10:52
DocScrutinizer51I know there's some kinky problems with the FPC connector that runs to screen (yes!) so TV out breaks10:54
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DocScrutinizer51had that. though mine had both screen AND TV out broken / garbled / gray10:54
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DocScrutinizer51somehow LVD-output to LCD is connected to TV out10:55
DocScrutinizer51Izzeh: try opening/closing slider10:55
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Izzehalright she ain't working11:02
IzzehI'll leave it a few days and hope it fixes itself11:03
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MohammadAG51why is my rootfs read only o_O11:06
MohammadAG51brb, i hope11:07
arachnistMohammadAG51: i'd look in dmesg | tail first11:07
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DocScrutinizermhm, MohammadAG51 still alive :-D11:12
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RST38hDoc: Ok11:16
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DocScrutinizer51RST38h: ok what?11:18
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MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer51, still alive, still alive, still alive, *runs portal*11:19
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer51, sup?11:20
DocScrutinizer51mount -o remount,rw ?11:20
MohammadAG51oh, lol, rebooted and checked kernel messages, it fsck'd /11:21
slonopotamusfskd'd up? :)11:21
RST38hDoc: The pattern priorities11:22
infobotNo devices specified to be checked!11:22
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MohammadAG51~fsck RST38h11:22
arachnist~fsck /dev/thor/root11:22
RST38hDoc: I am checking mce.ini here. It clearly says that chargin/charged patterns have lower priority than messaging stuff11:22
infobote2fsck /dev/RST38h : warning! filesystem contains dickheads!11:22
infobote2fsck /dev//dev/thor/root : warning! filesystem contains idiots!11:22
MohammadAG51[39721.299407] EXT3-fs warning (device mmcblk1p2): ext3_clear_journal_err: Filesystem error recorded from previous mount: IO failure11:23
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slonopotamus~fsck /dev/sda11:23
infobote2fsck /dev//dev/sda : warning! filesystem contains helpdesk workers!11:23
RST38hDoc: Yet, they appear to override messaging patterns11:23
arachnist~fsck sda111:23
infobote2fsck /dev/sda1 : warning! filesystem contains dumbasses!11:23
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slonopotamus~fsck Macer11:29
infobote2fsck /dev/Macer : warning! filesystem contains idiots!11:29
slonopotamusinfobot: you looped11:29
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RST38hSo, does the charging/charged LED status overrides messaging notifications for any of you?11:30
DocScrutinizer51got no msg. will check as soon as there's some11:33
RST38hDoc: Good test would be to leave the device plugged in for the night and check what light you have got in the morning11:34
RST38hDoc: If you have gotten an email or an IM, you should see the blinking blue light11:34
RST38hI always see the green light though11:34
DocScrutinizer51I always see the screen :-D11:35
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RST38hoh you have it always on when charging?11:35
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Arkenoifbreader + rotatedaemon -> instant reboot11:38
RST38hArkenoi: Blame rotatedaemon.11:38
MohammadAG51doesn't fbreader have rotation support?11:38
RST38hYes, internally11:38
RST38hHad it since N80011:38
MohammadAG51then it will obviously fsck it up :P11:38
Arkenoirst38h: actually i'd prefer it to use accelerometer11:38
MohammadAG51first it = rd11:39
ArkenoiRST38h, works fine with ctrl-shift-R11:39
RST38hArkenoi: Well, I would also like quite a few things...11:39
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MohammadAG51Arkenoi, rotatedaemon doesn't use ctrl shift R11:40
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MohammadAG51it uses forced rotation (xrandr?)11:40
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DocScrutinizer51ok RST38h11:41
DocScrutinizer51I'll check on 1.2 with dbus pattern cmd11:41
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DocScrutinizer51RST38h: patternIM overrides green charging indicator here11:47
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DocScrutinizer51RST38h: dunno for how long11:47
DocScrutinizer51might time out11:48
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RST38hDoc: Weird, weird stuff11:52
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: lemme check mce.ini11:52
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: yep,PatternCommunicationIM=30;1;0 should have higer prio (30) than PatternBatteryFull=40;4;0 , and both are infinite duration (0)11:57
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: maybe for some weird reason mce is restarted?11:58
RST38hhmm..I dunno11:58
DocScrutinizerRST38h: you could rule out by simply changing PatternBatteryFull, e.g by changing g to r - *without* restarting mce. If it happens to get restarted it will read in new pattern def for PatternBatteryFull and show red light instead of green12:00
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DocScrutinizer51RST38h: also make sure whatever app is enabling the blue flashing pattern doesn't intentionally set it back to off after some 30 min or a few hours. dbus-monitor|grep pattern should help to determine12:04
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: dbus-send --system --type=method_call /com/nokia/mce/request string:PatternCommunicationIM   still blinking blue nicely here12:07
RST38hDoc: thanks =)12:07
* RST38h makes notes12:07
RST38hDoc: I suspect that the phone may repeatedly set BatteryFull pattern when connected to the charger12:08
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DocScrutinizershouldn't matter, but would explain why green is still on after a suspected mce restart12:08
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: PatternCommunicationIM=30 should overirde arbitrary number of PatternBatteryFull=40 activations12:10
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: as mentioned above: dbus-monitor --system is your friend12:11
DocScrutinizeralso there's a log of dsme somewhere, to check if mce seen a restart, iirc12:12
DocScrutinizerbut also I seem to remember reading something like "deactivate IM LED notification after 60min - msg is no news anymore" - - or maybe I just dreamed that12:13
DocScrutinizerRST38h: you got xchat running? or pidgeon? They all share same priority for indicator patterns. So I donno if mce keeps old pattern of same prio on stack and re-establishes it after new pattern with same prio got deactivated12:16
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RST38hDoc: so maybe modest and im do deactivate it...12:18
RST38halthough that rule sounds somewhat stupid12:18
DocScrutinizeryes, maybe12:18
RST38hif I have not see the message, then it is news12:19
DocScrutinizernot modest - but im12:19
DocScrutinizerxchat I know has no way to reset the LED on ... yeah what? get_focus?12:19
DocScrutinizerso it did deactivation after some fixed time12:20
DocScrutinizerat least that plugin of cehteh(?) worked that way12:20
* RST38h tries to remember if he still has cehteh's plugin enabled for the led stuff12:21
RST38hThe bubbles themselves now popup using XChat's standard facilities (they just had to be enabled)12:21
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alteregoOff topic, but does anyone know if irssi can tell me what the last person said when they used my nick?12:30
Nomaif you haven't talked much since then, /lastlog alterego would work12:31
DocScrutinizerwould be a nice feature for xchat. I planned to implement such function, but alas xchat has no python support ootb ( RST38h *hint* *hint* )12:31
alteregoSweet, that worked thansk :)12:31
RST38halterego: /last <nickname> ?12:31
RST38hDoc: See my previous comment about python support (cannot be made optional, once added requires python, current python install for Maemo5 is a clusterfuck)12:32
alteregoDoesn't it just need linPyton?12:33
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alteregoerm, libPython ...12:33
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alteregoWho the hell are NTP12:36
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Venemohi everyone!12:44
RST38hNTP is just some random patent troll12:44
RST38hShows one more time how screwed up current patent laws are12:45
RST38hprobably cheaper to lobby the patent office to invalidate their patents12:46
alterego300m though ..12:48
alteregoThat's insane.12:48
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alteregoThat's a nice leaving message.12:54
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lbtwho here wants an OBS account? Ideally you'd know what osc is and can prove to me you're trustworthy. Then we can see about getting them beta test accounts if they want to help fix issues (there are plenty)13:01
MohammadAG51MeeGo builder?13:02
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DocScrutinizer51hmm remeber a nice taiwanese fastfood near location of those OBS servers (or the office managing them)... Good idea :-)13:05
lbtMohammadAG51: both MeeGo and Maemo13:06
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Macerdamn. this thing is still connected over 3G13:11
Maceramazing. usually it would have disconnected by now13:11
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malcolmciHey guys, wanting to reflash my N900 with the latest image. I'm on the download page, do I want "OS 2009 version 1.2009.42-11" or "PR 1.2 version 10.2010.19-1". I'm in Australia, so assuming that means Global is for me.13:31
tuxermalcolmci: PR1.213:35
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malcolmciThanks tuxer13:36
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jophishjacekowski, D-Iivil_Work, Nokia have told me that I cn only have it repaired in the US because the Warranty is US based :(13:55
jophish"send the device to a US contact with the proof of purchase and then have him/her contact our nokia care line for us to proceed with the repair process."13:55
Stskeepsdownside of 'buying it cheap in US'13:57
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jophishStskeeps, I didn't :(13:57
jophishI got it from expansys13:58
jophisha UK seller :/13:58
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jacekowskijophish: go there again14:13
jophishjacekowski, I'd really like to just send it of. it takes me about an hour to get to the store14:13
jacekowskiyou don't get international warranty in US14:14
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nidOjophish, send it back to expansys and let them deal with it, theyure responsible for getting it sorted for you14:14
jacekowskiyou would get international warranty if you've bought it in the EU14:14
nidOif they have to send it to nokia usa because they sold you an import, thats their problem14:14
Stskeepsor at least EU14:14
jophishThe stupid thing is that I did buy it in the EU :)14:14
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Stskeepswas it or .com?14:15
jacekowskijophish: but your reseller didn't14:15
nidOexpansys have lots of stores, their .com site is the uk14:15 = uk, = usa14:15 redirects to .com, however it is based in the UK14:16
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Stskeepsshould be able to get it fixed then.14:16
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malcolmciHey guys, running Ubuntu Lucid AMD64. Neither the maemo-flasher-3.5 .deb or .tar.gz can execute on my system, what are my options?14:16
Corsacinstall ia32-libs14:16
nidOas I said, send it back to expansys, theyre required to sort it for you regardless of whether it's an import14:16
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nidOmight also want to ask them why theyre selling you imported stuff, unless it was specifically labelled as such when you bought it14:18
nidOas the n900's theyre currently selling are clearly marked as being uk models14:18
jacekowskiuse that one14:19
jophishnidO, I don't remember it being marked as such14:19
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nidOcheck the links jacekowski gave and make sure it actually is a us model, if it is i'd accompany the return of the phone with a complaint14:20
jacekowskiThe European Limited Warranty offers 24-month coverage for new Nokia phones purchased on or after April 1, 2005 within the European Union, Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, and Turkey.14:21
jophishYup, it is within the period on the US site, and doesn't show up on the UK site.14:21
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nidOwell either way expansys are required to get it sorted for you, you dont have to send it off to nokia, but personally i'd take it back to them and ask them to outright replace it with the uk model they were supposed to give you14:22
malcolmciThanks Corsac, that worked. I love my N900 and all, but you wouldn't think it would be too hard to supply a 64-bit compilation. Welcome to 2010, where a lot of people have >=4 GBs of RAM!14:22
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tybolltyour n900 har >4GB ram14:23
tybolltI am really impressed now14:23
mgedminare there any 64-bit ARM platforms?14:23
nidOread what he originally asked, guys14:24
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mgedminwe're just being silly14:24
jacekowskimalcolmci: you don't need 64bit to use more than 4G of ram14:25
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mgedmin(but it helps)14:25
jacekowskiwell, you can use PAE14:25
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nidObut then, whats the point of explicitly using a 32bit system then bodge a dodgy method of accessing more memory, when you can just use a perfectly good x64 system14:26
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xDaReaperxHey guys :D yesterday morning my phone had fallen into a small pond of water , and within a day i could get it up and working again :D thanks to the amazing staff here who helped me14:26
xDaReaperxi didn't have to wait for another 3 days to let it dry14:27
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malcolmcijacekowsi: as what nid0 said. that + personally, I don't need the company I paid for my phone telling me, and a large number of the N900 user base, what to run on my computers14:28
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xDaReaperxDoes OC help increase battery life ?14:51
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Corsacin the bad way14:51
xDaReaperxBad way like ?>14:52
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Corsaclike, it'll help decrease battery life14:52
xDaReaperxso you've not overclocked your device ?14:53
xDaReaperxand incase anything goes wrong you just have to reflash the device right ? and everything returns to normal14:53
asj_depends on your definition of "goes wrong"14:54
CorsacxDaReaperx: you're playing with your hardware here14:54
Corsacso if something goes wrong, software might not be enough14:55
smharI finally got my N900, and because I had an aging  and fault mobile before, I had to manually enter more than 340 contacts manually.. Now, what is the best way to back up them in my computer. where is the contacts database file located?14:55
Corsacsmhar: run the backup tool14:55
xDaReaperxyou could just use the backup tool14:55
asj_smhar: use mfe and sync them to google every few hours14:55
xDaReaperxYeah i know we are increasing the volts and stuff , this can mess with the hardware14:56
Corsacbecause we love having our contact list in hand of third party14:56
smharI do not use google contacts, what is mfe? I just want to cp them to a local computer.14:56
asj_smhar: mail for exchange14:57
smharno no. no exchange please. just a normal copy of files. where is the contacts database file located?14:57
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asj_smhar: do what the others said for christ sakes14:58
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xDaReaperxThere is a tool given by Maemo itself called the backup tool , you get to backup your contacts , calendar , bookmarks .. and other stuff15:00
xDaReaperxand you can also restore it , if you connect your phone using mass storage you can download the backup file via computer15:00
smharok. backing up, then copying the file to my computer. thanks xDaReaperx15:01
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xDaReaperxYeah no problem15:01
smharhow can I tell the version of N900 firmware?15:01
xDaReaperxsettings > about product15:02
crashanddieCorsac: do you use facebook?15:02
crashanddieCorsac: or linkedin?15:03
Corsacthe latter only, though I do have an account on the former15:03
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crashanddieso, why do you moan at the idea of sharing your contacts with a third party?15:03
Corsaccrashanddie: I don't mean the contact list I mean the contact details15:04
Corsaccrashanddie: sharing my contact list (if I want to) is ok, but sharing details of my contacts without their consent is not15:04
crashanddieyou're not sharing those details15:05
crashanddieyou're just storing them15:05
DocScrutinizeryou are15:05
crashanddiequite frankly, I don't think Google gives a flying fuck about your contact's phone number15:05
crashanddieif they tried to sell it, they'd get sued to obliviion15:05
DocScrutinizeron facebook at least15:05
crashanddiewell, facebook15:05
crashanddiebut I'm against it, completely15:05
asj_facebook can't do mfe, thank god ;)15:05
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Corsaccrashanddie: I said “third party“, not google15:06
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CorsacI'm not especially targetting google15:06
Corsac(though the quantity of data they have scares me a little)15:07
DocScrutinizerCorsac: no friend of for DNS? ;-P15:08
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Corsacnot really :)15:12
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Corsacbut I run my own dns for my domain anyway, so he's a cache/resolver too15:12
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fralsheh, european cheerleading championships in helsinki today15:17
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Lantiziahey do your n900's say "Tessar 2.8/5.2" ... "AF 5MP" on the back15:19
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Lantiziajust got a replacement backcover and im sure my old one didnt say that15:20
Corsacmine does15:20
Lantiziaso its not a foreign one or something?15:20
Lantiziaim in the uk15:21
Lantiziathe bastards charged me £10 claiming the battery cover isnt in the warranty15:21
Lantiziait was the INSIDE of the cover that fell aprt... grrrr15:21
Lantiziai really hate the way you put it on and off... feels dodgy like its breakable :S15:22
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laurihey guys, I cant get /usr/share/applications/hildon/blah.desktop work properly15:41
lauriThe icon appears in the menu15:41
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lauribut it wont start the app15:41
laurialtought when I run the Exec line manually, it works15:42
lauriwhat could I do?15:42
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RST38hDoc: Do you by any chance have any details on how exactly XChat DCC fails? I am going to fix it but too lazy to test for exact symptoms15:46
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DocScrutinizerxchat DCC fails?15:49
DocScrutinizerRST38h: no idea about that15:50
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RST38hDoc: It succeeds but uploads stuff to some fixed, weird location15:53
DocScrutinizerlauri: check terminal and stdin/out settings, environment15:53
DocScrutinizerRST38h: ooh, DCC file transfer?15:53
RST38hDoc: While I am at it, should we quickly test it?15:53
DocScrutinizernever tried to use that15:54
an0therb0x1what the MMS connection under my internet connections ? in the N900 .. I no longer have the fmms app installed.. it is a pain constantly switching to mms and i have to manual switch out to use the internet15:54
an0therb0x1how can i completely remove the MMS internet connection ?15:54
DocScrutinizerRST38h: I always get problems with DCC FT as here I got a NAT15:54
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DocScrutinizeran0therb0x1: there's 'an app for it' :-D15:55
DocScrutinizerdon't ask me for the name15:55
RST38h.dcc send RST38bis pullman.zip15:56
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MohammadAGRST38h, s/./// :P15:58
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an0therb0xan0therb0x1: flash your device that should get rid of the MMS app15:58
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RST38hdoes not work15:59
RST38hMohammad: Could you dcc send something to RST38bis?15:59
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DocScrutinizerduh, I can try, but see what happens16:00
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kwtmHello. Quick question:16:01
RST38hSend to RST38bis not RST38h16:02
kwtmAre any of you able to charge your n900 from a USB charger which is NOT also a computer? (e.g. Wall outlet or car outlet adapter in the shape of a USB socket, but no actual computer to connect to the n900?)16:02
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RST38hMhm, looks like my NAT is no better than your NAT, Doc16:03
DocScrutinizeryep. looks like no valid addr to reach you16:04
kwtmMine refuses to charge via USB cable unless it's connected to a "real" computer, so I can't charge it in my car (bummer!)16:04
DocScrutinizer168 of course16:04
DocScrutinizerkwtm: short D+/D-16:04
DocScrutinizerkwtm: then it'll work16:05
kwtmOh, you guys trying to send a file to each other?  You can try Skype to send files if you're both behind natted walls.16:05
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Oh, so I should make sure the adapter connects the D+ connection to the D- connect?  Hmm... probably doable with a soldering gun...16:05
kwtms/natted walls/NAT'd firewalls/16:05
DocScrutinizerkwtm: we have zillions of ways to send files. But RST38h wants to check some IRC DCC related issue16:05
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Ah.  I'll just shut up here, then. :P16:06
DocScrutinizerkwtm: exactly. Did this (soldering) on my no brand usb charger16:06
kwtmDocScrutinizer: You wouldn't happen to know which ones are the D+/D-?  (Are they the middle two?)  Will Google to verify but would love to have real-world confirmation from a live person.16:07
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DocScrutinizerthey are the middle two16:07
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DocScrutinizer51in cable usuall white/green iirc16:08
kwtmOkay.  Will try this on a el-cheapo adapter first.  Crummy that I will have to do this for a whole bunch of adapters. :P  Or maybe I'll have a USB charging cable that I can short, to be used with any adapter.16:09
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kwtmDocScrutinizer51: I don't suppose this is something changeable by software?  In case I'm stuck somewhere without a charger and have to borrow/buy a USB cable while I'm travelling?16:09
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: check this post of mine, edit the 0x90 in the while condition to whatever it is for you (probably 0x10)
DocScrutinizerkwtm: status byte bit7 means D+/- short detected, but it doesn't work even when you use the original charger. So 0x10 is probably ok for you16:12
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Thanks for the tip.  Not sure I understand it but will research on my own.  It looks like Maemo code (or is that a shell script?) and it will be incorporated later into Maemo?16:13
kwtmDocScrutinizer: So that's what you look like!  I love the sunglasses. :)16:13
DocScrutinizerkwtm: notice that this little script, just like bme, isn't able to detect end of charging correctly when screen backlight is on. Also keep in mind you have to "stop bme" prior to starting the script, and "start bme" after finishing charge16:14
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DocScrutinizerit's a shell script16:14
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kwtmDocScrutinizer: Thanks.  Will keep it handy.16:16
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: do not use this script for unattended charging please. It's not completely tested and a first rather rudimentary draft that doesn't check for many special situations16:16
DocScrutinizerit's reasonably safe for attended charging that will be killed/stopped by user after max 6h16:18
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DocScrutinizerdon't use it with PC usb hosts or weak chargers, as it doesn't care about overloading etc16:19
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Bluewindany hints how to install curl?16:19
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Bluewindapt-get doesn't find a package :(16:19
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Understood.  Only for desperate situations.  I was recently overseas and did not have a charger for my Treo650, and must have gone to a dozen local stores hunting for a charger/adapter/battery for the non-standard socket.  I was so gratified to see that the N900 used a standard micro-USB.16:19
kwtmBluewind: I don't see a package when I search under[1][property]=name&org_maemo_packages_search[1][constraint]=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search[1][value]=curl16:20
kwtmBluewind: But there's wget, though.  Do you need curl specifically?16:21
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kwtmDocScrutinizer: Any recommendations on soldering?  Did you just use a solder trail or actually attach a piece of metal to short D+ to D-?  Did you solder the socket end (ie. computer end) like I plan to do, or did you solder the plug end (cable end)?16:22
kwtmBluewind: I see libcurl and pycurl... I don't suppose you'd want to write your own Python version or something.  I wonder if wget is included in some GNU utils package?16:22
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: My charger is a wallwart with A-F receptacle. I soldered a blob over the two pins/solderpads of the receptacle16:23
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: I.E. computer end16:23
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kwtmDocScrutinizer: And the act of plugging in the plug did not scrape off the solder?  Ok.16:24
DocScrutinizerI use standard CA-101 cable with that16:24
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: the solder pads are inside the charger, on the PCB16:24
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kwtmDocScrutinizer: Right... at first I thought the metal of the plug would scrape it off, but come to think of it now, that's just the ground housing, and the contacts themselves are embedded in the plastic tongue that floats inside the housing.  Great; will try on cheap plug and then work on my car chargers if that's successful.16:26
kwtmBluewind: Compile from source?  I see a Maemo 3.2 binary but not Maemo 5.0.  I assume you're talking about a n900?16:26
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Bluewindwell I've nerver compiled any dpkg packages and know near to nothing about their buildsystem16:27
kwtmMe either.  Sorry I can't help you more; maybe the veterans here can help.16:28
Bluewindthx anyway16:28
kwtmAnyway, gonna get some sleep.  TTYL all.  Thanks Doc for the soldering advice.16:28
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DocScrutinizerkwtm: I never soldered any USB *plug*. Solder the end of the cable where wires are soldered to PCB, or where the receptacle is soldered to PCB16:31
BluewindDocScrutinizer: he's gone16:32
* DocScrutinizer shrugs16:32
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kerionobody has broke in the nokia HQ yet?16:33
Appiahkerio: to do what?16:33
kerioenter, copy the bme's source, exit16:33
Stskeepsbecause it is of such state your eyes will bleed if you try to read it16:34
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DocScrutinizer51ack  XP16:35
DocScrutinizer51many tried, nobody came back16:36
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kerioDocScrutinizer: did they get caught, or did they die looking at the source?16:39
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DocScrutinizer51btw I said before: we don't even want to know what bme does. We are able to figure what it *should* do, and we found several bugs in bme already16:40
DocScrutinizer51kerio: probably #216:40
kerioDocScrutinizer51: yes we do16:41
kerioso we can write a replacement16:41
kerioand by "we" i mean you developers16:41
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DocScrutinizer51exactly. we write a better replacement from scratch if we never had a look at original bme crap16:42
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DocScrutinizer51bme  is just wrong and buggy16:42
DocScrutinizer51all we need is Nokia's specs for BL-5J battery care16:43
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DocScrutinizer51and that is quite evidentally not to be found in bme16:43
kerioDocScrutinizer51: what about OS integration?16:46
DocScrutinizer51Stskeeps did that already, for mer16:47
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Stskeepsoh, right - hald-addon-bme replacement16:48
DocScrutinizer51and what else we'd need (beyond hald-addon-bme) is not in bme anyway - like D+/- short charger detection which is in musb_core16:48
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DocScrutinizer51or ENUM. guess where you find that16:50
DocScrutinizer51what else left for 'OS integration'?16:50
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DocScrutinizer51maybe the watchdog in dsme? not really a big thing. we can live without - it's largely nonsense16:52
kerioDocScrutinizer51: we need a way to help noobs charge back the battery if it gets too low16:52
kerioi mean, that's kernel level16:53
keriobut still16:53
DocScrutinizer51no that's hw level16:53
DocScrutinizer51and nothing to be done16:53
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DocScrutinizer51just works - integrated in usb charge chip bq2415016:54
keriothe failsafe charging...16:54
kerioi really wonder *why* isn't charging fully hw anyway16:55
DocScrutinizer51simply because bq24150 is missing an EPROM to configure for a particular battery16:56
DocScrutinizer51so it reverts to absolutely safe power on presets which will charge just every cell in a safe way but only to some 10%16:57
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kerioDocScrutinizer: reasoning behind this?17:00
kerioit's not like you can use a different battery in a n900 anyway17:00
DocScrutinizer51well it's not nokia who built that chip17:00
Stskeepssure you can :P17:01
DocScrutinizer51and yes. there's mugen and whatnot17:01
DocScrutinizer51and for ENUM you'll end with needing a software anyway. So why integrate functions to hw that are moe cheap to do in sw17:02
keriobecause you're going to make crappy sw that people on IRC are going to whine about?17:03
DocScrutinizer51like configuring the chip for 4.2V instead of 3.7V17:03
DocScrutinizer51not me  :-P17:03
DocScrutinizer51maybe Nokia subcontractors17:03
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DocScrutinizer51and see my 'script' (it's almost not worth the name, but still does the job). How easy is that, and how hard would it be to fix if charger hw would be similarly borked as bme is17:06
DocScrutinizer51nah 'let's do it in hw just becuase we got poor sw engineers' is never a good strategy17:08
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kerioDocScrutinizer: hardware is tested a lot more17:09
DocScrutinizer51rom-basic was a deadend17:09
DocScrutinizer51kerio: hahahahaha17:10
keriostop crushing all my hopes17:10
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pupnikty for the info on bq24150 DocScrutinizer5117:11
DocScrutinizer51(still gasping) you're welcome. Which pericularly?17:12
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DrGrovGood day17:14
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luke-jris it possible that moving swap to MicroSD will hurt battery life? :/17:18
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: there is that BSI17:21
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: which seems to be battery specifig17:21
DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: yep17:22
DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: BL-5J == 100k17:22
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DocScrutinizer51unclear if it holds a thermofuse as well. like open circuit above 70C17:23
DocScrutinizer51that's why we need Nokia bl5j specs17:23
jacekowskihave we asked nokia?17:23
DocScrutinizer51not yet. Stskeeps says no use in that for next 3 weeks17:24
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jacekowskiand there is one more thing17:25
DocScrutinizer51I'm not going to buy 10 bl-5j and kill them in test + R317:25
jacekowskiwhy is bsi connected to gazoo17:26
kerioDocScrutinizer: aw :(17:26
DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: good question17:26
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DocScrutinizer51maybe because one nice day in the past somebody thought it's not a fixed R but a NTC like on old Nokia batteries17:27
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DocScrutinizer51or to shut down GSM TX *immediately* so even when you remove battery there's still enough time for bme to gracefully shut down system?17:29
DocScrutinizer51which wouldn't work if GSM is drawing 2A and you remove battery17:29
DocScrutinizer51but then there's no use in this when not hooked up to charger to backup power17:30
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DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: we should meet and have 4 beer each while discussing that17:30
dr34many way to reanimate a dead battery without a 2nd phone there ? when i connect the charger just the orange light is lit but wont boot or anything :|17:32
fluxdr34m, have you tried keeping it that way for a while?17:33
dr34mthe light goes off than but it wont boot still nor anything jup17:33
DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: cargo cult EE probably17:33
dr34mkinda annoying they should supply some desktop charger or a 2nd phone with the n900 package =p17:34
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fluxdr34m, when I last had an empty battery, charging it for a while (remove battery, insert battery, use original charger for <hour?) and then starting it worked. iirc :).17:35
DocScrutinizer51dr34m: yellow steady light=leave it. light off= replug charger. blinking yellow= you should be able to boot now17:35
DocScrutinizer51dr34m: always use original wallcharger17:36
crashanddieDocScrutinizer51: is there a car charger that works with the n900?17:36
DocScrutinizer51crashanddie: dunno17:36
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DocScrutinizer51you'd think Nokia should sell those :-)17:37
crashanddieDocScrutinizer51: what's the charge voltage? How complicated would the circuit be? Does it need to have this usb-power-negotiation thingy?17:37
DocScrutinizer51I got no car17:37
fluxcrashanddie, not complicated at all, in principle17:37
fluxcrashanddie, it needs to provide 5V and possibly 700mA17:37
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DocScrutinizer51nope. just 5.0V @ 1A. And D+/- short17:37
dr34mthanks for the reply DocScrutinizer51 and flux ill try that.. only using original wall charger anyways17:37
fluxcrashanddie, of course, given it's in a car, it must guard atleast for the overvoltage situation17:37
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flux(you're going to get when you start the car)17:38
fluxI guess the same applies17:38
DocScrutinizer51dr34m: yellow steady is limited to 32 minutes. replug every half hour17:38
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fluxnot sure, though17:38
fluxwouldn't hurt atleast :)17:39
dr34mthat a construction failure / bug  on nokia side ?17:39
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luke-jrN900 won't stop vibrating17:39
dr34mgive it to your gf17:39
dr34msorry :x17:39
DocScrutinizer51dr34m: not really17:40
DocScrutinizer51dr34m: usually you shouldn't be able to drain your bat that much17:40
DocScrutinizer51if it happens nevertheless, then there's 32min steady yellow emergency recover mode for charging17:41
DocScrutinizer51should give you a bat at 25% after 30 min17:42
DocScrutinizer51maybe at 1017:42
dr34mok when the light goes off i replug the charger and repeat that till its working ?17:42
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DocScrutinizer51anyway should suffice to boot and charge as usual after that17:43
dr34mi ordered a spare battery and a desktop charger anyways now17:43
dr34mspecially in the weekend damnit17:43
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DocScrutinizer51dr34m: maybe it's wise to also remove the battery for some minutes. Especially if device doesn't show any yellow indicator light immediately on charger plugin17:46
b-man ~ping MohammadAG5117:47
infobotpong MohammadAG5117:47
crashanddieflux: I'll probrably get this:
DocScrutinizer51crashanddie: skooter, motorbike?17:49
crashanddieDocScrutinizer51: link I posted before17:49
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DocScrutinizer51be carefull, I've seen at least 3 fried devices (Freerunner) due to crappy USB car chargers plugged in while starting motor17:50
crashanddiewill do17:50
* luke-jr sticks to an inverter...17:50
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luke-jrso no comments on whether swap-on-microSD will harm battery life?17:51
DocScrutinizer51well, N900 is way more robust on VBUS OV17:51
DocScrutinizer51but still....17:51
crashanddieDocScrutinizer51: I can connect an SSR to the headlamps cable so that the power is cut immediately as soon as the engine is off (the headlamps come up when the engine is started)17:51
DocScrutinizer51luke-jr: sure, might keep uSD powered all the time17:51
crashanddieor rather an EMR, rather than SSR17:52
DocScrutinizer51crashanddie: sounds reasonable17:52
crashanddieDocScrutinizer51: would also prevent people from plugging in something into the plug and draining my battery while it is parked17:52
DocScrutinizer51good plan17:52
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crashanddieI wonder if I could use a transistor rather than a relay... 5v at 700mA, so roughly 3.5W, that should be findable17:54
crashanddieDocScrutinizer51: though, why were they fried? Because it went over 12V?17:55
DocScrutinizer51probably high voltage bursts17:55
crashanddiewell, most likely, it's not like it could sudden pump amps through17:55
crashanddiewell, there is a jumper on that circuit17:56
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DocScrutinizer51maybe even transients of inverted polarity17:57
Venemohey guys17:57
Venemois there anyone here who could help me with a little bit of a gtk stuff?17:57
crashanddieDocScrutinizer51: scary17:58
luke-jrGTK ftl17:58
DocScrutinizer51we checked one of the chargers, but couldn't find clear problems17:58
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alteregoRather boring question, but what would people call the widget in the top left:
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alteregoI'm trying to come up with a better name than "CompassWidget" something more succinct about the actual widget style ..17:59
alteregoSure, but the widget below is also a compass ..17:59
alteregoI was thinking maybe: SlideCompass18:00
GAN900alterego, sounds plausible.18:00
alteregoOr maybe: TapeCompass, or RuleCompass, or CompassRule :)18:01
kerioalterego: side compass18:01
alteregoAh, maybe HCompass :)18:01
alteregoOr HorizontalCompass18:02
alteregoThat's a pretty goodf idea.18:02
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luke-jrGAN900: -.-;18:04
DocScrutinizer51head up display compass?18:04
luke-jrGAN900: 3GData + WiFi works fine concurrently with stock 1.218:04
alteregoI was thinking, going along with Qt widget names: SlideCompass and DialCompass18:04
Stskeepsoh fucking hell. 'we have to stop the train cos we need to look at a technical problem'18:04
cehtehalterego: Bearing18:05
DocScrutinizer51scale compass18:05
DocScrutinizer51that's it18:05
luke-jrso um18:05
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luke-jrthink T-Mobile is any more likely to let me subscribe now that I have a SIM?18:05
DocScrutinizer51Stskeeps: too hot :-P18:05
alteregoSlideBearing ..18:05
alteregoAnd DialBearing? :)18:06
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alteregoGeoBearingSlide, and GeoBearingDial are my favourites so far :P18:06
StskeepsDocScrutinizer51: got a plane to catch so they better fix it18:06
luke-jralterego: why make it compass-specific? :P18:07
alteregoluke-jr: I'm not,18:07
luke-jrthat was a joke. I can't think of a viable non-compass use18:07
alteregoluke-jr: Well, I'm making generic base classes18:08
alteregoThe Compass/Bearing usage is obviously a specialization of the base classes.18:08
luke-jralterego: has it ruler-markers? :P18:08
alteregoluke-jr: did you look at the picture? :P18:09
alteregoOh, well, yes it does :)18:09
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* luke-jr clicks18:09
Stskeepswoo, driving again18:10
luke-jralterego: base 6???18:10
DrGrovDocScrutinizer51: does the Freerunner have phone capability?18:10
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Stskeepsdefine capability18:10
alteregoluke-jr: ?18:11
DocScrutinizer51DrGrov: allegedly yes XP18:11
luke-jralterego: your ruler markings are oddly base 618:11
DrGrovI can make regular GSM phone calls?18:11
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DocScrutinizer51alterego: compass rose, compass scale18:11
alteregoluke-jr: are they?18:11
alteregoI don't see it ...18:12
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DocScrutinizer51DrGrov: sometimes18:12
luke-jralterego: well, a mixed combination18:12
alteregoWell, the base class is obviously a "SlideRule" class :)18:12
luke-jryou have 9 divisions between directions, then 6 divisions within those18:12
alteregoluke-jr: Well, it's got 1, 5, 45 and 90 degree markings.18:13
luke-jrI don't use degrees.18:13
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: usually? so it has some issues?18:13
alteregoluke-jr: what do you use for your bearings? Radians? :)18:13
luke-jralterego: Tims18:13
alteregoNever heard of 'em18:13
luke-jrand timtons as necessary18:13
DocScrutinizer51DrGrov: well yes. it's not extremly reliable18:14
DrGrovDocScrutinizer51: ok, perhaps better to stick with the N900 then :)18:14
DocScrutinizer51DrGrov: mostly due to userland sw18:14
DrGrovoh, i see.18:14
alteregoluke-jr: yeah, you showed me that before I believe :P18:15
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alteregoI do plan on implementing custom "conversions" unit systems.18:15
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luke-jralterego: divide each direction in half, repeat, rinse18:17
luke-jreg, see bottom half of
alteregoYeah, I get it18:18
luke-jror for a better example...
alteregoStill doesn't sound too common to me :P18:19
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luke-jralterego: not common at all, just logical and easy :)18:19
luke-jrwhy make things hard?18:20
alteregoWell, it's not about difficulty, it's about standards isn't it :P18:20
luke-jrTonal is a better standard18:20
alteregoIt's not standard though18:20
luke-jrit's a standard.18:22
alteregoI'd say it's a format, it's not a standard until more than one person use it and in some industry :P18:23
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DocScrutinizer51luke-jr: you won't change the world :-P18:25
luke-jralterego: hmm, so I need to convince one other person... :D18:26
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alteregoAnd use it in the such for some oil maybe :P18:26
alteregos/such/search/ ...18:26
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DocScrutinizer51we'll rather see the British use Euro or the USA go SI units, than becoming tonal any form of standard18:27
luke-jrSI sucks18:28
LinuxCodeluke-jr, forget us ever using the Euro18:28
DrGrovDocScrutinizer51: I am extremely impressed by the Freerunner. I might need to get one. The problem is my fiancee saying that I will get brutally murdered if I buy one.18:28
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luke-jrDrGrov: impressed how?18:28
luke-jrDrGrov: does it work now?18:28
alteregoI'm not sure Europe would have us with the current state of our economy :)18:28
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DrGrovluke-jr: It seems to be interesting since I like Linux on my phones18:29
luke-jrDrGrov: yeah, the theory is awesome18:30
DocScrutinizer51DrGrov: SHR seems most usable distro for now18:30
luke-jrbut AFAIK it's never actually worked18:30
DrGrovDocScrutinizer51: yes, I read that SHR is most used.18:30
DocScrutinizer51luke-jr: uh? I used it for daily phone until I got N90018:31
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sejosomeone using a bluetooth ear with the n900?18:31
luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: really? O.o18:31
DrGrovThe phone is not expensive so I might want to give it a go18:31
sejohere it sounds all distorted18:31
DrGrovsejo: yes, i use18:31
sejobut not when using the BT device with other phones18:31
DrGrovsejo: if you mean bluetooth hands free18:31
sejoDrGrov: good sound?18:31
DrGrovsejo: yes, the sound is really good.18:31
DrGrovsejo: are you using a default Nokia BT HF?18:32
sejoon my previous cor it was ok, but with such an earbud it's not18:32
DrGrovsejo: which bluetooth HF are you currently using?18:32
sejoDrGrov: no an LG HBM-21518:32
DrGrovsejo: there you go. that is the problem...18:33
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DrGrovsejo: always try to use a default Bluetooth HF with Nokia. That seems to be always working out the best.18:33
luke-jrany idea how to say 3G in Japanese? XD18:33
DocScrutinizer51Sony HBH-DS220 ... WFM18:33
DrGrovsejo: I currently use the Nokia 2xx series BT on my N900 without any problems18:34
sejoDrGrov: not buying another18:34
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DrGrovsejo: you could easily get a Nokia 2xx series BT for approximately 40 euros18:35
DrGrovDocScrutinizer51: That is a quality BT :)18:35
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DrGrovi got really interested in this Bluetooth HF18:37
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DrGrovsejo: it is a Nokia BH-216 I got as a headset.
DrGrovit is the BH-904 I got really interested about...
DrGrovThe price though is a huge minor problem18:39
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DrGrovI tested it in Helsinki at the Nokia Flagship Store and it was impressive. There was some loud music playing and I was staying in the middle of the sound and I hear clearly everything the guy said.18:40
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DrGrovGuys, which one of these 2 would you recommend? the Nokia BH-904 or the Nokia BH-804,
DrGrovSorry for double posting links...18:43
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* Arkenoi wonders if subscribing to city area wifi helps me to save battery or switching hotspots while walking would kill it even faster18:54
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luke-jrwhere to find exact PR 1.2 kernel sources? :)19:09
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DocScrutinizer  ??19:19
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: switching hotspots isn't so expensive19:20
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: depends on what you compare it to...19:21
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: on a correctly configured wide area WLAN with multiple APs, there should basically be no such thing like switching hotspots19:22
GAN900luke-jr, r.m.o?19:22
Justusis there a website for the Maemo Game Openlands?19:22
luke-jrkeyword: exact19:23
JustusI didn't find one over google19:23
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: hmm, ask Stskeeps maybe19:23
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: who knows how 'exact' the published sources are?19:24
GAN900luke-jr, whatever the one in there whose version matches.19:24
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, comparing to poor quality mixed edge/3g network19:25
Arkenoiwill try, subscription costs about $1719:26
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smharthere is a vibration and sound whenever I click on almost anything in N900, how to disable that?19:35
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FireFly|n900Under settings > display, smhar19:37
FireFly|n900or similar; running swedish version19:37
smharfound, thanks FireFly|n900, I hope this will save a little more battery19:38
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FireFly|n900I don't think that drains the battery very much, though reducing the backlight årobably does19:40
FireFly|n900just guessing, though19:40
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DocScrutinizer51Arkenoi: WLAN will win every time GSM competes19:43
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PhonicUKhey all19:55
PhonicUKF-Zero X at 30 FPS? Hell yeah19:58
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MOUDHey all20:03
MOUDis appinstaller worth installing?20:04
MOUDwhat are the advantages?20:04
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pupnikPhonicUK: is that snes?20:14
PhonicUKno the N64 version20:14
PhonicUKusing Mupen6420:15
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PhonicUKmy phone is warm20:28
PhonicUKrunning at 1GHz though xD20:28
PhonicUKits really stable :\20:28
PhonicUKits been looping the F-Zero X intro for nearly an hour now20:28
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MOUDPhonicUK: what's your overclock configuration?20:39
PhonicUKstandard voltages, 900MHz20:39
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DrGrovQuick question about the Black Plastic Theme Pack that came to the extras-repositories today. Do I need to uninstall the regular Black Plastic theme first before I put in the Theme Pack version?20:42
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DrGrovSo to enable the theme I need to go into Settings first and choose what I want and then enable it?20:45
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luke-jrI just wrote a DNS tunnel client in 100 lines of Perl :D20:48
luke-jrmost of which is decoding the AAAA replies into binary dat20:48
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ml-mobilevnc is so slow over EDGE20:59
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Maceri need to find a new case for this xbox36020:59
Maceri want to l33t it out with the clear case and red lights20:59
MohammadAG51red lights? overheat it20:59
* SpeedEvil passes Macer some brass sheet and mahogany.20:59
Maceroh yeah. let me put some wood grain on the xbox36021:00
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Macerthe one at the top with the 2 halo characters.. that's taking it too far :)21:03
Macerespecially since halo is a total shit game21:03
smharis there any money management program for N900 already21:05
SpeedEvilthere are a couple21:06
SpeedEvilnot that21:06
smharnot online stocks stuff, but personal budget management21:07
SpeedEvilIt did not have an obvious name21:08
jacekowskijust a question in regards to installation of .deb's from www in microb21:08
jacekowskiwhen you click on deb21:08
jacekowskiit should automaticaly install dependencies as well?21:08
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SpeedEvilThere was another one, but I don't recall the name21:09
keriojacekowski: i think there's a way to add a repo and download&install a program (with dependencies)21:09
type_t_luke-jr what version of perl is that. are you using IO::Socket::SSL ??.21:10
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luke-jrtype_t_: 5.8.8, no21:10
luke-jrDNS doesn't need SSL21:10
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smharoh...not in extra yet!21:14
DrGrovI managed that Black Plastic Theme Pack to get working without any problems21:15
DrGrovReally great theme21:15
DrGrovMohammadAG51: Hi there, did you do the custom transitions for Black Plastic Theme Pack? If so they are absolutely fantastic :)21:16
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MohammadAG51DrGrov, sorry to disappointed, but nope :P21:16
DrGrovMacer: why didn't you buy the cool Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 Xbox 360 when it was released? :)21:17
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Maceri don't get game related cases21:17
Maceri just wanta  clear case so i can get it all lit up21:18
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Maceri want to remove the drive top too and put one in with a window21:18
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Maceri think i am going to need a power booster for the LEDs tho :(21:18
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thopiekaris amrothos from youtube here?21:19
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thopiekarhe is controling a arduino w/ his N80021:19
thopiekarI'm interested in the kernel drivers for the usb to serial chip on the arduino..21:19
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DrGrovMohammadAG51: how did them then? No disappointment21:23
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MohammadAG51D-Iivil_Work, i suppose21:23
DrGrovMohammadAG51: ah yes, he himself made them I presume. But you did some scripting?21:23
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MohammadAG51no, why do you think I'm involved?21:24
MohammadAG51i only slightly helped with the script21:24
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DrGrovMacer: how do you order this cases?21:24
DrGrovMohammadAG51: you are in the credits ...21:24
smharif I added extra-testing to my N900 repos, will I be able to see if the app is from extra or extra-testing? and will it show its karma level? or do I need to check the web for every application?21:25
MohammadAG51didn't know that :P21:25
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ml-mobilesmhar: it will show the catalog if you tap the "Description" button21:28
MacerDrGrov: by clicking "buy" ?21:28
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DrGrovMacer: lol21:32
Macerbut yeah. i think that is the case i will get. the clear one21:33
Maceri figure like $200 should be enough to make the old xbox look good as new heh21:33
Macermost likely less than that21:33
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DrGrovWTF should you need to pay about 200... Should be cheaper on the cases I've seen. Surely not the same as the one you're thinking about but you don't think that it is a bit much?21:40
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RST38h wazd21:45
RST38hheya wazd21:45
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RST38hAnyone has got the apple bt keyboard driver compiled for the PR1.2 kernel?21:47
jacekowskiRST38h: you don't need any special driver21:49
jacekowskiRST38h: it's just working as soon as you enable correct bt profile21:49
RST38hit does not.21:50
RST38hneeds a special driver.21:50
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Arkenoirst38h: will see if reducing swappiness will help with ui reposnsibility degradation i get after a week of uptime or so21:55
RST38hArkenoi: I am waiting to see that as well. 1 day uptime right now.21:56
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RST38hArkenoi: does it feel better so far though?21:56
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ArkenoiRST38h, seems so21:57
jacekowskiRST38h: you odn't need a driver21:57
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jacekowskiRST38h: you just have to enable HID profile and that's all21:58
* RST38h sighs at jacekowski21:58
RST38hThe guy just doesn't do his fact checking =(21:58
jacekowskii hat apple keyboard21:59
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RST38hA'ok. Let us conduct an experiment. Maybe PR1.2 magically fixed that.21:59
jacekowskiModule                  Size  Used by21:59
jacekowskihidp                   12544  121:59
jacekowskihid                    31876  1 hidp21:59
pupnikanybody want to play a game of 'hunt' sometime, for old-times sake?21:59
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jacekowskiRST38h: i never had any driver for pr1.122:01
jacekowskiRST38h: as well as i never had any driver for pr1.222:01
jacekowskiRST38h: and it was working just fine22:02
_0x471how can I check if my application is still building in the autobuilder. it's 4 hours ago, wtf?22:02
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jacekowski_0x471: what was the name?22:02
jacekowskithat will take a lot to build22:02
_0x471failed once, but the second try should be ok22:02
_0x471how fast is the autobuilders cpu?22:03
jacekowskihmm it has finished22:03
_0x471it took an hour on my 2x3ghz vm22:03
jacekowskii would guess something around 4x2.6GHz22:03
jacekowskias it's little bit slower than mine 2.83GHz22:03
RST38hNaah, same shit.22:03
_0x471jacekowski: 1.42 :)22:04
RST38hSorry, jacekowski, but it needs a kernel driver.22:04
jacekowskiRST38h: well, what's the problem?22:04
jacekowskiRST38h: bullshit22:04
RST38hjacekowski: google for it, will'ya?22:04
jacekowskiRST38h: well, i trust my eyes22:04
_0x471jacekowski: failed here
_0x471but the second one still didn't update the status22:04
jacekowskiRST38h: i have it working without any drivers22:05
jacekowskiRST38h:  /etc/bluetooth/main.conf22:05
_0x471jacekowski: what happens if I add it one more time, but the first one happens to compile ok?22:05
jacekowskiRST38h: line DisablePlugins?22:05
jacekowskiRST38h: what do you have there?22:05
_0x471will it crash the first build?22:05
jacekowski_0x471: no22:05
jacekowski_0x471: it will just reject one of them22:05
_0x471ok, then i'll just add it again to ensure it's actually there.22:06
jacekowskithe latter one22:06
jacekowskiRST38h: Nokia-N900-02-8:/# hcitool con22:07
jacekowskiConnections: > ACL 7C:6D:62:41:B0:AD handle 11 state 1 lm MASTER AUTH ENCRYPT22:07
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jacekowskiRST38h: so unless in some automagical way i have that driver22:08
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jacekowskiRST38h: it's working without it22:08
FireStorm|fmms - any one having problem sending mms's says it's gone but never gets delivered?22:09
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jacekowskiFireStorm|: it's network problem then22:09
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FireStorm|but i take sim out n900 put in G1 send pictures all day long22:10
jacekowskibme sends signals over dbus somehow22:10
jacekowskibut there is no dbus code in bme itself22:11
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jacekowskihmm, nvm22:11
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FireStorm|i know frals is on here i'll pick his brains when he back22:11
FireStorm|just seemed strange22:12
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wazdRST38h: moo :)22:17
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_0x471jacekowski: if the autobuilder site states my application as being in the build queue, is it already building?22:21
jacekowski_0x471: no22:21
jacekowskiit's in a queue22:21
_0x471wtf? it's been added 4 hours ago?22:21
_0x471i don't get it, lets see what happens22:22
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jacekowskii'm just wondering if nokia would take down a patcher for fmtxd modyfing it to ignore usb cable and headphones state22:25
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smharis it possible to include more fields in the contacts? like prefix ?22:28
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DocScrutinizer51jacekowski: probably not. I mean they even accept powerkernel22:30
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DocScrutinizer51I wouldn't hope for inclusion to harmatan though22:31
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xnt14hmm, My N900 was in an infinite reboot loop, I enabled R&D mode and disabled the lifeguard reset, it boots now, but how can I find the root issue which caused it?22:31
jacekowskixnt14: /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_resets and /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_restarts22:32
xnt14jacekowski: ok22:32
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jacekowskihmm, i think somebody had same problem22:37
jacekowskinot so long ago22:37
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jacekowskijust flash it22:37
xnt14so copy my data out, and reflash?22:37
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xnt14is it safe to reflash while in R&D Mode? (just want to be safe)22:38
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SpeedEvil Interesting. (though somewhat irrelevant) SATA drive replacement using striped SDs22:42
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jacekowskihow do you check if headphones are plugged it?22:46
jacekowskiplugged in*22:46
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fluxbtw, how does n900 behave if you have two bluetooth headsets?22:52
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jacekowskii don't think n900 can handle 2 bluetooth connections22:54
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fluxI could see it wouldn't suport a master- and a slave-connection simultaneously23:03
fluxbut iirc you can have 7 bluetooth slave-connections in one master23:04
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SpeedEvilThere is what the hardware can in principle do.23:11
SpeedEvilThen there is what the chipset in question can do.23:11
SpeedEvilthen there is what teh firmware in the chipset actually does23:11
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SpeedEviland if the drivers and OS and application side actually support all the features the firmware enables23:11
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wazdoh. my. god23:21
wazdpoor Forlan23:21
wazdthat's super fail23:21
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kthomas_vhanyone know where I can find the installer files for nokia maps for n900?23:34
SpectralNewtmaybe /var/cache/apt/archives23:35
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jacekowskigrrr dbus23:42
jacekowskihow do i send dbus message to enable fmtx23:42
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