IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-07-06

jacekowskikerio: and then maybe 30% of that would ever look into OS code00:00
Robot101and apparently, a different one who will complain at them for announcing it too early00:00
mneptok"The desktop wallpapers that ship with the device are ugly!!!!!! PLZFIXKTHXBAI!!!!1!!!" is idiotic. "Wait, this device van't sync with a major provider like Google without third party apps?" is, IMO, fairly justifiable criticism.00:00
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keriomneptok: it's linux00:00
jacekowskimneptok: question is - is device supposed to be just a basic platform to install 3rd party apps00:00
keriotechnically everything is a third-party app00:00
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kerioand why are we calling them apps?00:00
keriothey're called programs00:00
kerioor applications00:00
jacekowskimneptok: or something with all dancing singing stuff00:01
kerioapps are for the iphone00:01
Robot101it's a truth, yes, they could've done better. but they didn't and they're not going to because they're making products to sell to more people than they marketed the N900 to. if you notice, it didn't have a lot of marketing budget and launch momentum behind it.00:01
Robot101it has ctrl+alt+X and an xterm00:01
kerioRobot101: does syncevolution only sync contacts?00:01
kerioand should i use mfe for the calendar (which appears to work?)00:01
Robot101the fact you've got an IRC channel at all *and you've joined it* means you should expect it to be a little shaky here and there00:02
Robot101and it's not the flagship, the N8 is. for the moment. ;)00:02
kerioRobot101: symbian^3?00:03
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mirr0ranyone has experience with irreco and lirc remotes?00:03
mneptokRobot101: shakiness i can handle. "quit moaning and deal with it," when expressing some dismay with shaky bits is not something i expect. but you apologized for snapping, so i'll go have a nice hot cup of STFU. :)00:03
keriomneptok: i think the common reaction is "patches welcome"00:03
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mneptokkerio: feel free to add 4 extra hours to my workday.00:03
Robot101kerio: no, that's not right. there are some things where all we can do is just say, oh well, that's what nokia decided to do. but, the point is *that's all we can do*.00:04
kerioRobot101: no it's not! we can bitch about it on #maemo!00:04
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jacekowskiit might be that nokia expect that we will build OS for them00:04
Robot101heh... they're spending a bit much for that to be true :P00:05
Stskeepsheh, what if community had actually baited on that properly initially?00:05
Stskeepslike, back in os200500:05
mneptokkerio: if you consider bug reports and feature requests to be "bitching," you might have a future as an iPhone Product Manager00:05
kerioRobot101: tasks synchronization?00:05
keriooh, always in the calendar?00:05
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Stskeeps.. they did, kinda, i mean, the whole subcontractor network underneath maemo00:05
Robot101SyncEvo does the calendar and stuff00:05
Robot101and notes00:05
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Testerdoesnt do tasks ?00:05
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kerioi didn't know google had notes00:06
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Robot101kerio: I don't know if google does, I'm talking about SyncML00:06
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Robot101but maybe you should join #google and have a massive rant at them about how absurd it is for such a large organisation to have anything other than a fully-completed standards-compliant SyncML server in this day and age ;)00:07
* Robot101 is out...00:07
TesterRobot101: I seem to be able to sync between evo and my n900 with syncevo00:07
Robot101oh yeah, you can do that way too. sync everything to your desktop and have that use google for you.00:07
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Macerheh. google will own your souls some day00:08
kerioapparently syncing notes with google doesn't work00:08
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lcukMacer, i had to google to find out what a soul was00:09
kerioRobot101: hey, you lie00:09
keriosyncml on google only works for contacts00:10
Robot101I was only ever talking about SyncML00:10
Robot101I don't use Google for contacts or calendaring00:10
Macerredirect to wikipedia?00:10
Macerand ads with jerry curl gels?00:10
lcukmacer, it says a soul is a kind of fish00:11
lcukwhy would i sell my fish?00:11
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b-manlcuk: maybe if you were in the fish business xD00:12
lcukb-man, how would google know that?00:12
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b-mangoogle knows more than you think xD00:13
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n900-dkAny news lately about voicecontrol in Ovi Maps?00:13
timeless_mbphrm, ise from /. ?00:14
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lcukb-man, o_O perhaps i will have to sell my fish to it00:14
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keriook, so now i have a three-way synchronization00:16
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keriosyncevolution for contacts and mfe for the calendar google<->n900, isync for contacts and calendar between google<->mac and isync for contacts and calendar for n900<->mac00:16
kerioi better drop one of the three00:16
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lardmanevening all00:21
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lcukevening lardman \o00:22
lardmanhi lcuk00:22
lardmandyslexic typing stops tab completion00:22
lcuk"hic" was a good start00:23
lcukgather the wine is nice tonight dude ;)00:23
lardmanfollowed by "cup" ;)00:23
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lardmanso is this N9 thing with a kb real?00:24
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lardman(sorry to drop the tone)00:24
lcukraising it!00:24
lardmandunno, think it was on news, being killed remotely00:24
lcukrumours over kerio whining anyway00:25
lardmanI'll have a look-see00:25
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lcukim gonna finish my book soon00:25
lardmanwriting or reading?00:25
mneptokyou know, being a Claws user installing anything with the name "Evolution" in it makes my skin crawl :)00:26
lcukhahaha lardman00:26
lcukreading :) on portrait liqbase :P00:26
jacekowskii'm 21 today00:26
lcukhappy birthday \o/00:26
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ptlmneptok: damn creationist! :P00:26
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ptljacekowski: well, happy birthday00:27
ptljacekowski: are you that young? I thought you were like 4000:27
jacekowskii'm really 2100:27
lardmanjacekowski: happy birthday00:27
mikki-kunjacekowski: happy birthday as well from thailand :) wish you a great day to celebrate and a joyful time till 22 ;)00:28
b-manhappy b-day jacekowski :)00:28
keriomneptok: SYLPHEED IS THE TRUE WAY00:28
lardmanStskeeps: no clue of the url, could have sworn I found it on a kosher website this morning though00:28
ptlno, MUTT because text-only is nerdier00:28
lcuktelnet because front ends are for cowards00:28
keriolcuk: netcat00:28
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keriohaha, from sylpheed's requirement list: 128MB or higher RAM (256MB or higher is recommended, 512MB for Windows XP, 2GB for Windows Vista)00:29
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lcukevening MohammadAG00:29
ptlhi MohammadAG00:30
mneptokkerio: i prefer Claws, as you're able to use it with <capslock> off00:30
keriomneptok: lol00:30
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jacekowskiptl: why you were thinking i'm 40?00:31
ptlshift-shift in the case of the N90000:31
MohammadAGevening lcuk00:31
MohammadAGhey ptl :)00:31
ptljacekowski: I dunno, your last name inspires me of older people, it's like all -owski are born with 38+00:31
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jacekowskiit's not my last name00:32
ptlbooiiing: are you bouncing?00:32
ptljacekowski: first???00:32
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jacekowskiwell, jacek is my 1st name00:32
jacekowskiand owski is just there00:33
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mneptokOK, so i have MfE syncing my calendar, SyncEvo doing contacts, and the plain-Jane IMAP client handling e-mail tasks. it's like growing an extra hand for each key on the keyboard. ;)00:33
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lardmanok, so I want external plugins to provide some match and don't match strings/regex - should I combine them (presuming that's possible with regex)?00:34
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lardmanok, so I can do alternatives I now learn with a bar, presumably I can also say whether matches should be case sensitive, etc00:36
lcuklardman, performing 10 regexes once you have identified a code is simple?00:36
lcukyou do not have to merge them immediately?00:36
lardmanwell I was thinking just one, if everything could be passed in one00:36
lcukie dont add to complexity00:36
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lcukthese barcodes are short strings arent they anyway00:37
lardmanyeah, the problem is how to order the plugin file to pass them in, and added code complexity in evaluating them all00:37
lcukits not like you have to process a bible worth of text every time it beeps00:37
lardmancan be quite long, e.g. vCard, sms:, etc00:37
lardmanno of course not00:37
lardmanbut this is for external app registration files, they say their name, what type of barcodes they want (e.g. QR codes) and give a regex to eliminate/keep in whatever payloads they wish to receive00:38
lcukdo you anticipate multiple plugins to detect same code00:38
lardmane.g. maemo-mapper will only want things containing geo:00:38
lcukscanning a book could go into your library, but it could also be wanted to go into your google search00:39
lardmanwell not detect, but multiple will want to handle same code00:39
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lardmanI also don;t want to have to start up external apps for no reason - i.e. if they don't care about a youtube:// payload00:39
lardmanor rather s/i.e./e.g.00:40
lcukwhy dont you start simply00:40
lcukwith a group of common ones opening apps on your machine00:40
lardmanno point, may as well do the hard work now00:40
lcukthat you know00:40
lcukto see how the operation will feel00:40
lcuki know00:40
lcukbut this is just a quick test of whether you want multiple listeners and how you may want to handle the ux for it?00:40
lardmanbecause I won't be writing the registration files, the authors of these external apps will be, so I want to make sure it's all nice and efficient and they only get called when necessary00:40
lardmanno, this is the end implementation00:41
* lcuk nods00:41
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lardmananyway looks like with a bit of up-front effort on the part of the registration file writer, a single regex can be used to match anything00:43
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timeless_mbpanyone here wanna help me w/ apt-get?00:46
timeless_mbp(requires someone willing to hack apt-get sources)00:46
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lardmanhi timeless_mbp, not me I'm afraid, but hello nevertheless00:46
MohammadAGhack apt-get sources?00:47
MohammadAGis this about E: Handler Silently Failed?00:47
timeless_mbpit's about how apt-get (and co) don't honor -c fast enough00:47
timeless_mbpand stat files from /00:47
MohammadAGoh, nvm then00:47
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mirfah crud00:59
mirfc++ ?00:59
mirfyoui gotta be kiddin me00:59
mirfmakes sense though00:59
timeless_mbpmirf: you were going to look at it?01:01
timeless_mbpbrave soul01:01
mirfwell I really want to do some apps on this little ggeezer01:02
mirfand python is a bit bulky for what I wanna do01:03
mirfhard work is c++ though01:03
lcukyoda couldnt have said it better himself.01:03
mirfit's all just an excuse to get debian installed on this PC though heh01:04
Dantonicanyone here overclock the n900?01:04
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:04
lcuknite trem01:04
lcukmirf, what are you wanting to hack01:04
mirfsort've advanced mp3 player I guess01:05
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mirfcould probably get away with python as long as there are some nice c libs I can use for the audio processing01:06
mirfwhich I guess there are01:06
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lcukmirf, cool01:08
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mirfyeah it shoudl be01:09
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mirfI don't want to say too much cos if it works it's a pretty nify idea :P01:09
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mirfoutta here01:11
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lbtwtf?  I got kicked for excess flood?01:11
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SpeedEvil(11:10:46 PM) lbt left the room (quit: Excess Flood).01:13
SpeedEvilDid you paste something?01:13
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Maceranybody here use fbsd8?01:24
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ptldo you guy sknow of a tutorial for QT desktop widgets on the N900?01:34
timeless_mbpoh brother01:35
* timeless_mbp cries01:35
briknot really a tutorial, but if you have a look at his code, it's not that hard :)01:36
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pupnik"Proudly powered by a damn shell script. No fugly cms. "01:38
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keriopupnik: heh, it shows01:39
pupnikyeah i noticed the instant loading time and complete lack of distracting fluff01:41
ptlbrik: thanks01:42
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ptlbrik: in fact, that was exactly what I was looking for01:49
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lardmanah, I feel my classes are complete01:52
lardmanbut can't be arsed to test them now for fear that I find a problem and then will have to fix it01:52
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GAN900Hey, lardman.01:54
lardmanhey GAN900, how's things?01:55
GAN900lardman, well enough. How's kicks your side of the pond?01:55
lardmannot too bad, nearly off to be your side as a matter of fact01:55
lardmanweek yesterday in fact01:56
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DrGrovStskeeps: Hi there, like what you wrote on
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StskeepsDrGrov: mm, thanks01:58
DrGrovStskeeps: you are welcome.01:59
StskeepsDrGrov: 1) and 2) is coming, if we are noting meego (real meego), but 3) remains to be seen01:59
lardmanGAN900: any clues on shooting in Vegas?01:59
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lardmanother than down the range ;)02:00
DrGrovStskeeps: you have any ideas what 3) could be?02:00
StskeepsDrGrov: 3) being the third question02:00
Stskeepsthere's no applications we'd want yet from maemo6 as we haven't seen it.02:00
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DrGrovStskeeps: completely agree with you on that one. difficult to say anything when nothing is visible.02:01
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DrGrovStskeeps: I was mainly worried for the N900 to be forgotten once Nokia considers MeeGo their primary market02:04
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lardmanbed time I think, night all02:08
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* timeless_mbp needs some help w/ apt.conf02:09
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brikptl: :)02:20
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n900evilhow do I tell what my current apn/... is?02:27
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MohammadAGStatus menu -> internet connection?02:28
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timeless_mbpso, apt 0.6 sucks much less than apt 0.5 :)02:29
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luke-jrwhat I don't get is why Maemo was using apt at all02:33
luke-jrit's been obsolete on Debian for years02:33
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MohammadAGI use apt02:33
luke-jrMohammadAG: you can use ifconfig and route too02:34
luke-jrthey're still obsolete02:34
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lcukbluetooth keyboards02:44
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lcukdid someone tell me that the apple one wont work on my n900 or was i mishearing02:44
timeless_mbpso um02:44
GAN900lcuk, it's just HID02:44
timeless_mbpanyone here understand how apt-* -c foo -c bar works?02:44
MohammadAGif it uses HID... nvm02:45
timeless_mbpis it cumulative?02:45
GAN900I think the thing is Maemo 5 doesn't have good support OOB02:45
lcukGAN900, MohammadAG ok ill get some batteries and test tomorrow02:45
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lcuktimeless_mbp, not tried - what is -c02:45
timeless_mbpconf file02:45
lcukis it normally needed?02:46
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MohammadAGsee man apt-config(8)02:46
MohammadAGI think it's man8 lol02:46
lcukheya raster \o02:47
rasterluke-jr: yay!02:47
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lcukMohammadAG, i wasnt asking so i could go rtfm right now, i was asking timeless why its coming up now02:47
timeless_mbplcuk: i'm hosting apt on centos to index fremantle1.202:48
rasterwhy does libspleen have to be so slow02:48
* raster bah's02:48
timeless_mbpmy previous indexer ran on nexenta02:48
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timeless_mbpbut my nexenta box is facing retirement02:48
timeless_mbpto do this, i needed to magically host apt-*02:48
lcukand what would the conf file do02:48
timeless_mbpi do this by using /data/apt-etch/<> as a root directory for apt02:48
timeless_mbpi.e. it has usr/bin, etc, usr/lib, ...02:49
lcukand your new host does not have access? :D02:49
timeless_mbpno, i'm not root02:49
timeless_mbpi'm very very very rarely root02:49
* lcuk nods02:49
timeless_mbpthe nexenta box was a solaris zone :)02:49
timeless_mbpand it too used -c02:49
timeless_mbpbut it didn't need two layers02:49
timeless_mbpbecause nexenta is an apt based system02:49
timeless_mbpi don't really absolutely need two layers of -c02:50
lcukperhaps then its time to dig into man page MohammadAG discovered02:50
timeless_mbpbut it makes things cleaner02:50
timeless_mbpthe help there isn't very helpful02:50
lcuknever is02:50
MohammadAGapt.conf(5), I didn't discover it :p02:50
timeless_mbpit says that it reads something and then the specified one02:50
timeless_mbpand fwiw, i've read those pages02:50
timeless_mbpi read them 3-4 years ago when i first set this stuff up02:50
MohammadAGlcuk, hasn't :)02:50
timeless_mbpwhich is why i knew -c existed in the first place :)02:51
lcukive been reading a book on my 900 tyvm MohammadAG02:51
* timeless_mbp installed 'dorian'02:51
MohammadAGlcuk, I never realized man pages were made into books :P02:51
* timeless_mbp couldn't find any ebooks02:51
pupnikman mplayer should be02:51
lcuktimeless_mbp, i read plaintext :)02:51
* lcuk likes simplicity02:52
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pupniki agree luke-jr02:53
pupnik"look my new ebook!"02:53
pupnik"no, your old, expensively repackaged string of text"02:53
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crashanddiehey, if ebooks get people reading again, I'm all for it03:19
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crashanddieI'd like people to be inspired by Billy's Blues, as if a muse of Langston Hughes, I want John Keats to display his poetic feats, so that people are attracted to the greats of W. B. Yeats. Just get a fix of Emily Dickenson and inject yourself some litterary genius of W. E. B., maybe even get lost within the lines of Robert Frost. Maybe you need to feel Emerson, Tennyson, Stevenson, cuz in the end, it's only about what you read,03:22
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GAN900Hooray ebooks03:29
GAN900Reads thousands of them on Maemo03:30
GAN900Ironic since I make a living selling real books. :P03:30
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SpeedEvilebooks are real!03:31
SpeedEvilIn some ways I prefer ebooks to 'real' ones.03:31
SpeedEvilI can grep them, and hotlinks works.03:31
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SpeedEvilalso - of course - I can't easily fit a million books in my pocket any other way.03:32
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jacekowskii prefer paper as such03:36
GAN900Yeah, I prefer it for disposable stuff03:36
jacekowskii mean physical piece of paper that i can make notes on03:36
jacekowskiand that sort of things03:36
jacekowskii always print all my datasheets03:36
GAN900But I like real books when they've value beyond the printed text.03:36
jacekowskii have notes, bookmarks, some highlighed things03:36
jacekowskiand i can have couple pages open at the same time03:37
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GAN900I can't begin to fathom highlighting or margin writing.03:37
jacekowskiwell, in my case it's ussualy separate piece of paper with notes03:37
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jacekowskiand every single page of notes is scanned03:38
jacekowskiso i can always recover it03:38
SpeedEviljacekowski: yeah - that's usefufl - being able to doodle is a good idea03:39
MohammadAGneed to stick the magnet on the battery cover back to it03:39
jacekowskii was thinking about buying that pen that automaticaly scans whatever you write03:39
SpeedEvilI am using n900 more and more for that sort of stuff03:40
jacekowskii need piece of paper03:40
SpeedEvilIt'd be so nice if there was an easy way to categorise photos03:40
SpeedEvilI mean bit of paper + pen + pic03:40
SpeedEvilA teeny whiteboard like thing would be awesome.03:41
SpeedEvilespecially if you could automagically 'print' it from the phone.03:41
jacekowskipartialy that's reason why i really like IDA03:41
jacekowskibecause it's really easy to add some notes to it03:42
jacekowskiand with my set of scripts i can automaticaly pull out notes that are attached to specific routine03:42
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jacekowskionly problem is searching trough that sort of notes03:43
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Macerdamn comcast is down AGAIN03:43
jacekowskibecause my handwriting is so bad that i have problems reading it03:43
Macerthe place i moved to.. they seem to have 2hr+ outages once a week03:43
Macerbut it is starting to drive me nuts03:45
jacekowskiwhat am i supposed to say03:45
jacekowskii have BT03:45
Macerand the worst part is i call tech support and they are still with the old address03:45
jacekowskiand they have "fair usage policy"03:45
Macernot on business class lines03:45
Maceryou lease them03:46
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jacekowskithat says if i download more than 100G in last 30 days my speed is limited from 17:00 to 23:0003:46
jacekowskii don't have £300/month to spend on leased line03:46
Macerits actually around 15003:46
Macerbut for that much money03:46
Maceri should never go down03:47
jacekowskiwell, when you buy leased line from BT03:47
jacekowskiit has 100% SLA03:47
jacekowskiand if it fails you get whole month for free03:47
Maceri will call comcast and ask them if that is the case03:49
Macerthis is the 3rd time in like a month03:50
Macerstill down03:50
Macerand i am not home03:50
Macerwhich makes it worse because it could be a power outage03:50
jacekowskido you want to buy a generator?03:50
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jacekowskitime to sleep03:52
MohammadAGargh for fuck's sake03:56
MohammadAGI need glue to stick the N900's magnet03:56
* SpeedEvil boils up a hedgehog to make glue.03:57
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* MohammadAG calls animal cruelty03:59
* b-man hides the bucket of hedgehog glue from animal cruelty 04:02
* b-man gives it to Macer04:03
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WormFoodgod damn it! I STILL can't get my N800 working right, after charging it all night. :(04:23
asjWormFood: get a replacement bat?04:24
asjah well, time to buy an n900 ;)_04:25
WormFoodinternal backup battery04:25
WormFoodmain battery is still good04:25
WormFoodfuck no! There is no god damn way I will EVER buy another Nokia product, after they fucked me on my N85 phone!04:25
asjhuh, I liked my n8504:25
WormFoodI liked mine too, until it quit working, and they wouldn't repair it under warranty (and it broke under warranty)04:26
WormFoodthey want about 10% of the price of the phone to repair it.04:26
asjah well, time to find another device then04:26
merlincoreyor find the repair manuals and a swedish parts supplier04:27
merlincoreyI mean seriously this isn't that complicated :P04:27
asjswedish? I've had good luck with chinese ones04:27
WormFoodI can get the parts here. I live in Shenzhen can get just about anything here04:27
WormFoodmy N85 came from isn't the same as the Chinese model04:27
asjah, intl warranty service04:28
WormFoodthe Chinese N85 does not have a front mounted camera, 3G or wifi....and the HK model does04:28
WormFoodNOW it is out of warranty....but the fact is, they refused to repair it under warranty....because of that, I will never buy another nokia product,04:28
WormFoodAND, every nokia product I own, has one problem or another04:29
asjWormFood: very few companies do good intl warranty service (yes ok HK is barely intl, but ayays)04:29
WormFoodI tried to get it repaired in Shenzhen, and HK....I got fucked both times04:29
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WormFoodthat clearly tells me they don't want my business.04:29
asjwhat's wrong with it?04:29
WormFoodproblems with the screen04:30
WormFoodat first, it just went to solid white, and got hot after a while.04:30
asjand don't tell me, they want about $30/40 to fix it right?04:31
WormFoodnow it is in various colors...and can't see clearly04:31
WormFoodthey want closer to about $45 to fix it04:31
WormFoodwell, in the local currency, it is closer to about $250.....but in USD it is between $40 and $4504:31
asjI can see why you're annoyed.  that's about the price of the screen and no labour <shrug>04:31
WormFoodit isn't the screen that is bad (at least, I don't think it is)04:32
asjchanging the screen is the easiest and cheapest place to start, even it's the cable04:33
WormFoodthey claimed the cable went bad04:34
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WormFoodI don't give a fuck what is bad....the fact is, I should not have to pay to repair a piece of equipment that is under warranty, and broke due to quality and workmanship (not because I fucked up)04:35
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asjmmm, I would have thought HK service would have fixed it04:39
WormFoodthey didn't04:39
SpeedEvilWormFood: International warranty service is variable.04:40
asjsuch is life, life's too short, time to move on :)04:40
SpeedEvilMany companies will not service under warranty models bought overseas04:40
WormFoodI consider it a lesson learned....never buy nokia again.04:40
WormFoodSpeedEvil, it has warranty support in all of china, hk and macau....that is where I bought it....I didn't buy it in usa, then take it to china.04:41
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asjthe only 2 brands I've ever had do intl warranty service is ibm and Shure, and that's one of ibm's selling points of course.04:42
asj(assuming you buy a product that had intl warranty service, not all did)04:42
WormFoodwell, this has a 1 year warranty in ALL of China, and they didn't honor the warranty, when it broke due to no fault of my own.04:43
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asjWormFood: and you bought it through an authorized retailer?04:43
WormFoodtherefore, FUCK NOKIA! They clearly don't want my business every again.04:43
rafaelbrandaogood evening04:44
WormFooddoes it matter where I bought it? it is nokia. I'm pretty sure I bought it through an authorized reseller, but not 100% sure.04:44
asjWormFood: it maters very much04:44
SpeedEvilWormFood: SO what are you doing here?04:44
asjSpeedEvil: his n800 died04:44
rafaelbrandaowhat's going on?04:44
WormFoodwhat do you mean SpeedEvil?04:44
WormFoodmy N800 does not work right.04:45
SpeedEvilI read a non-maemo model04:45
WormFoodtry to use it the other day, and it has problems. I replaced the internal battery, and still has the same problems.04:45
asjprobably not the battery ;)04:47
WormFoodthe old battery was corroded, so I strongly suspect it is. It was working fine before, and last time I go to use it, it gives me problems.04:48
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rafaelbrandaoI'm trying to run a compiled c program generated by a shell script on my n810 but it says this: "error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"04:49
rafaelbrandaoand I can't get the shell script, it's most unreadable, and that error doesn't help me to find where that file should have been. :(04:50
e-yesfprint - finger print?04:50
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tripzerowhere is a good place to upload my gpg pub key so maemo will accept my package?04:53
Termanagood morning04:53
GeneralAntillestripzero, just use the web interface?04:54
tripzeroGeneralAntilles, not ssh key, pgp key04:55
tripzerothe web interface still tries to validate your package's signature04:55
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tripzerowell, the web interface doesn't, but whatever comes next04:56
tripzeroi suppose I don't sign my packages?04:56
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tripzeroor are you saying i can upload my pgp key through a web interface?04:57
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GeneralAntillesI was saying not bother signing05:00
GeneralAntillesBecause I think it may require intervention by an admin to add it at this point.05:01
GeneralAntillesBut I'm not sure05:01
GeneralAntillesand probably the wrong person to be answering.05:01
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* tripzero tries not signing05:04
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tripzeroqmake-qt4 not found05:11
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tripzerohmm.. forgot to pull in libqt4-dev05:15
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tripzeroyay, success05:18
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WormFoodok, I just reflashed my N800, but I notice a lot of the programs I had installed before are not available in the online package list. I remember installing from another repository. Can anyone point me to this other repository?05:23
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tripzerohrm, does gpsd work on the n900?05:50
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SpeedEvilWell - not in that it has any nmea device to read.05:51
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SpeedEvilThe standard device does not have a NMEA interface05:51
SpeedEvilThey invented something else - rathe than what would be arguably saner - teach gpsd about agps05:52
tripzeroi bet the gps chip in the n900 has some proprietary agps command set that cannot be opened05:52
tripzeroand nokia probably doesn't care enough to make them open it05:53
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tripzerowe have a similar problem for meego05:55
smackpotatocan someone tell me if milestone overclock is portable to the n81005:56
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tripzerothere's no standard way to feed agps data to the gps device05:56
smackpotatohas anyone looked it05:56
smackpotatois there any online compilers05:58
tripzeroanyone know if qt-mobility is in maemo?05:59
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asjtripzero: it does have an n900 backend06:00
asjtripzero: must be available in -devel at the very least eh?06:01
tripzeroso i understand... but is it in the repos? can I build against it?06:01
* tripzero checks06:01
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tripzeroi see 'qt mobile' crap06:05
tripzeronope, that didn't pull in qt-mobility06:06
rafaelbrandaohow do I type ">" on n810?06:07
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rafaelbrandaonevermind, just found it. :)06:11
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ljsdofuynsdfufuhanyone else have trouble with WEP networks?06:16
ljsdofuynsdfufuhI think every WEP network I've tried so far I've not been able to connect to06:16
ljsdofuynsdfufuhthough WPA works flawlessly06:16
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ljsdofuynsdfufuhhmmm. some people are saying enter a hexed version06:23
asjwep keys can be problematic06:26
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tripzerowep is insecure06:34
tripzerouse wpa06:34
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tripzerowhere do .desktop files go for apps?06:41
tripzeroto show up in the launcher deal06:42
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luke-jrljsdofuynsdfufuh: crashanddie told you to change your default nick06:46
luke-jrljsdofuynsdfufuh: WEP works fine here06:46
GAN900luke-jr, has that N900 placed its implants in your brain yet?06:49
luke-jrGAN900: no?06:49
GAN900luke-jr, so you think. Eeexcellent.06:49
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luke-jrGAN900: only grey matter in there... wtf did I disassembly my head for, you liar??07:22
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GAN900luke-jr, too late for you.07:22
luke-jrcrap, it's leaking out :(07:22
GAN900Nokia has you in its snare now07:22
luke-jrmaybe I should go to the ER..07:22
dotblankI'm looking for icons to use in my app07:22
GAN900dotblank, what sort of icons?07:23
dotblanklike the hildon icons07:23
dotblankclose and maximize07:23
dotblankand the back button07:23
dotblankI want to implement my app in fullscreen07:23
GAN900What are you doing it in?07:25
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GAN900What's a good example Qt application that uses default iconsets?07:25
dotblankI was thinking of setting an icon to a QPushbutton set flat and use an icon.. it looks fairly well so I think I'll stick with it07:25
tripzerolibmeegotouch-dev is available to build against, but it requires libcontextsubscriber-dev which isn't available?07:25
asjtheming of Qt apps should happen automatically with qt-maemo builds, on the device make sure to use run-stantalone07:26
dotblankyes but it is fullscreen and I want to use the current themes icons in my app07:27
dotblankis there a path or location to it?07:27
dotblanklike a symlink to hildon icons07:27
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asjdotblank: ah I see, look on the phone, it should pop out fairly easily07:28
dotblankjust found some07:28
dotblanknot sure what the icon size it normally is?07:28
asjworse case, set the widget size and it let it scale the icon07:29
RST38h"The rule, announced by the US Coast Guard, forbids 'photographers and reporters and anyone else from coming within 65 feet of any response vessel or booms out on the water or on beaches."07:30
asj65 must have been picked my commitee07:31
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Macerseems like comcast has yet another huge outage07:34
Macerso now i am screwed .. thanks comcast!07:34
RST38hasj: it was 300 first =)07:35
asjRST38h: mmm, and I dunno, I could see the coast guards point of view.  Imagin photographers 20m away when you're trying to do work, it could be a pain.  Especially if you're trying to lay down booms and wake, etc is being a pain.07:37
WormFoodif they specify "anyone else" then why also mention "'photographers and reporters"?07:37
WormFoodshouldn't the wording be to prohibit anyone from ____07:38
asjWormFood: they don't07:39
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asjbasically it says "No one is allowed within 20m of oil cleanup and booming operations, if it's in an area that can't be helped do so at a respectful speed. Or get fined $40,000"07:41
WormFoodI find it interesting that it is "20 meters" since most americans don't know what the fuck a meter is! They don't even teach metric system in skewl anymore. (I know, my cousins just graduated from high skewl a few years ago, and they don't have a clue about the metric system)....the only kids in school who know the metric system, and the ones doing and dealing drugs07:41
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derfWhat the hell do you need to "teach" for the metric system?07:42
derfEverything's a multiple of 10.07:42
derf-= The End =-07:42
luke-jrmetric sucks07:42
asjWormFood: you always find something to complain about eh? This I assume also applies to intl waters07:42
luke-jras does decimal07:42
WormFoodstill, need to learn what the metric system...also need to learn the weights and volumes and distances07:43
luke-jrI probably won't teach my kids metric07:43
luke-jrbut who knows07:43
WormFoodmost people (americans) don't think in can't ask "how far away is that?", and expect them to be able to answer in meters, but probably could in feet, or yards07:43
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asjderf: what is a km? what's 100km? what's 60miles? It's all irrelevant.  100km takes an hour at 100kph, 60miles takes 1 hour at 60mph, both are highway speeds.  What's 75f? what's 25c? both are warm.07:43
WormFoodI learned the metric system in school07:43
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* lpotter_ learned how to spin albums at school07:44
luke-jrasj: to be fair, 100kph lets you go a little faster ;)07:44
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WormFoodthe point is, most american's don't have a reference point for metric system, unless you work with it on a daily basis07:44
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derfIf you're at sea, you're expected to know these things.07:45
derfThey also use "nautical miles" and "knots", which you're expected to know as well.07:45
asjWormFood: dude, it's not like the coast guard is going to be going around with meter sticks...07:45
WormFoodnot if you're american....if you're american, you expect the rest of the world to conform to you07:45
lpotter_should ave made it in cubits to make everybidy think about it07:45
WormFoodindeed lpotter_07:45
* luke-jr is switching to tonal07:46
WormFoodor, put it in light years07:46
WormFood.0000000000000000000325 light years07:46
derfNautical miles might as well be cubits.07:46
asjlpotter_: that explains the pic...07:46
luke-jrWormFood: timmills07:46
WormFoodwhat are you talking about luke-jr?07:46
WormFoodthat is a length?07:46
WormFoodor a name?07:47
luke-jrWormFood: length unit07:47
WormFoodnamed after "Tim Mills"?07:47
asjWormFood: he knows how to use "units"07:47
* RST38h does not know what 75oF is07:48
asjRST38h: but what does 25c mean?07:48
luke-jrin lengths, a timmill is 1 / 0x10000 of the Earth's circumference07:48
luke-jrI think07:49
* RST38h vaguely remembers that 72oF is 22oC, but that has been learned07:49
RST38hasj: 25oC is what is currently outside.07:49
WormFoodwhat temp is -40 C in F?07:49
RST38hWormFood: Table says is it -4007:49
WormFoodyes, -4007:49
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RST38hthey meet at that point07:50
WormFoodthat is correct....-40 is the same in both C and F07:50
asjbut what does -40 mean? it's freaking cold07:50
RST38hasj: -40oC means -40oC.07:50
WormFoodit means you're freezing your balls off07:50
RST38hasj: What is your point in asking what it means?07:50
WormFoodit is all relative anyways07:51
lpotter_-40 would be warm on Pluto07:51
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WormFoodon a dog? I think -40 would still be cold, even on a cartoon dog07:51
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asjRST38h: the actual number is meaningless, it's what the value implies to you.  Unit system tend of have little effect on out everyday life (a few professions exluded). To the average person it's used to judge warm/cold, near/far, fasst/slow, etc.07:52
luke-jra timmill is approximately 2002.207 feet or 610.27269375 meters07:52
Macerthank god for tethering07:52
luke-jr(metric meters)07:52
Macercomcast says it is some sort of power problem07:53
Macermobilehotspot seems to do a pretty good job though so meh. kind of sucks tho because i'm sure a thousand emails are being missed right now :)07:53
RST38hasj: Good07:54
RST38hasj: So, see, metric values mean something to me, and imperial ones do not.07:54
RST38hasj: As simple as that07:54
WormFoodit seems very binary friendly07:55
luke-jrasj: tonal Temps have 16 values for everyday use07:55
luke-jrWormFood: tonal is a base 16 system07:55
asjluke-jr: what temperature is grunt? and is grunt grunt burb really hot?07:55
derfasj: "a few professionals excluded"... you mean, like, sailors?07:57
asjderf: <shrug> not really 20m at sea is pretty darn close, and if you're plotting a course it's just what your tools/maps are marked at07:58
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luke-jrWormFood: do note not all units on my page are from tonal :)07:59
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derfI can assure you if you're trying to navigate a channel, you need to actually know what those numbers mean.07:59
luke-jrWormFood: the "Length" heading links to the Tonal System book, though07:59
WormFoodyeah, I noticed...still interesting07:59
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RST38hasj: You are somewhat wrong :)08:00
asjderf: I was thinking more like a CivE, or something who might be converting between types of units frequently, or what combination means something different08:00
RST38hPlenty of people like that08:00
asjderf: for example a slug := lb/something if you want imperial08:00
RST38hLike...yourself driving, following map directions08:01
derfRST38h: Basically everyone I know.08:01
RST38hderf: exactly ;)08:01
derfThat's got to be at least 6 people.08:01
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luke-jrWormFood: do you use Facebook?08:03
WormFoodluckly Facebook is blocked in China ;)08:03
WormFoodI can go to facebook (I run a vpn), I just don't use it08:03 well as most of the Net? =)08:03
derfAh, you're in China. No wonder you have such a dim view of Americans.08:04
WormFoodwhat makes you think I'm not American?08:06
derfI very intentionally did not say "you're Chinese".08:06
WormFoodactually, I don't have a dim view of Americans....I just know how most Americans think08:06
WormFoodI know you didn't say I'm Chinese....but maybe I am....and maybe I'm American :P08:07
WormFoodor maybe I'm neither08:07
asjWormFood: we don't care08:07
derfIt doesn't actually matter for the point I was making.08:07
WormFood"we"? You have a mouse in your pocket asj?08:07
dotblankIs there a way to determine the theme from the command line on the n90008:09
dotblankor rather the current themes image locations08:09
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dotblankIs there a way to lunch the task menu?08:15
dotblankfromt he command line?08:15
* slonopotamus wants alt+f2 on n90008:17
asjdotblank: have a look through dbus, you might fine something08:17
MiXu-_ slonopotamus: I think there's a widget that does about that.08:18
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slonopotamusMiXu-_: _widget_ cannot do that. the point of alt+f2 is that i don't need to think where my focus is08:21
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MiXu-_Yes, but what a widget can do, is eliminate the time needed to separately start xterm08:22
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slonopotamusand if you bothered to return to desktop in order to use widget, you could just lauch app from menu as easily08:22
MiXu-_If you have a shortcut for the app, then why would you even want to start it from cli?08:23
MiXu-_The keyboard is nice but it's not _that_ fast to type on08:23
slonopotamusbecause alt+f2, "fire", enter is faster08:23
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slonopotamus(and that would launch firefox)08:24
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slonopotamusthat's especially useful for non-everyday apps that i know by name but fail to remember what app folder they belong to.08:26
Macercomcast is so screwed in this area08:26
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kerioctrl+shift+x and type microb08:26
* slonopotamus fails to press that08:27
slonopotamusctrl+shift is extremely hard to do on n90008:28
rafaelbrandaohow can I get enough permission to access /proc/bus/usb (/dev/bus/usb) on n810 (OS2008)? any suggestions?08:28
kerioyeah, you need two hands in an awkward position08:29
slonopotamusrafaelbrandao: chmod?08:29
keriorafaelbrandao: sudo08:29
rafaelbrandaoI'm sudo already.08:29
fluxhildon-modified supports using ctrl-fn-shortcuts in place of those08:29
flux(not that I'd have tried it, just browsing its wiki page)08:29
keriowhat's hildon-modified?08:30
rafaelbrandao"You have no permissions to access /proc/bus/usb (/dev/bus/usb). Solution depends on distro. On Gentoo you should add your user to usb group. Same solution should be applicable for other distros. Invoke mount | grep usb"08:30
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fluxrafaelbrandao, do you actually have /proc/bus/usb?08:31
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rafaelbrandaohow can I check it?08:32
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Corsac_rafaelbrandao: ls?08:38
rafaelbrandaothen yes. there actually have /proc/bus/usb08:39
rafaelbrandaosame for /dev/bus/usb08:40
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* h0n3st is away: I'm busy08:56
MiXu-_Thanks for letting us know, h0n3st!08:58
h0n3stMiXu-_, It is your right to know :-P09:00
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ponyofdeathanyone know whats up with the upstart package missing sysvinit-utils missing dependencies?09:16
slonopotamusponyofdeath: that's normal situation in maemo09:18
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Juozapasmaemo supports skype video call ?09:20
tripzeroas of pr1.209:21
Juozapaswhere i can find those new freatures ?09:21
keriowhat about umts video calling? i didn't see it anywhere in the menu09:22
tripzerowhen you touch a skype contact09:22
tripzeroyou should have the option for "video call"09:23
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kerioyou know, the normal video calling09:23
keriothe one that sucks09:23
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ShadowJKNo video call support09:30
ShadowJKonly internet video calls09:30
Juozapaswhere i found version of meamo on my phone ?09:31
Juozapas*can i09:31
Juozapasmaemo 509:32
timeless_mbpyou want the longer string09:32
Juozapasoh 10.2010.19-109:32
MiXu-_Oo. BlessN900 + HDR seems pretty nice09:32
Juozapasthis one09:32
timeless_mbpyour n900 is unlikely to ever not say maemo 509:32
Juozapasits newest ?09:32
kerioMiXu-_: did you try it?09:32
timeless_mbpthat's 1.209:32
kerioit kinda sucks for me09:32
MiXu-_kerio: Yeah. Seems to work ok. What was your problem?09:33
keriothe photos are ugly09:33
timeless_mbpeveryone's a critic09:33
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MiXu-_kerio: I set the color vividness to normal and that helped.09:33
shorterwhen calling a cell from a SIP phone for example, why doesn't the real phone number of the SIP phone show up on the cell?09:33
trip900m e e g h o09:33
MiXu-_Also, you need to have the N900 on a stand or desk or something when taking the picture09:33
keriooh, i see09:34
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MiXu-_Because if I've understood it correctly, it takes several pictures09:34
fluxmy experience has been succiness as well (with BlessN900)09:35
fluxbut perhaps I should adjust some of the parameters (there are not many, so by that I mean 'brightness')09:36
Juozapashow to install midnight commander ?09:37
MiXu-_Well I'm not saying it's perfect. It just seems to me there's potential :)09:37
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kerioJuozapas: apt-get install mc09:38
* timeless_mbp sighs09:39
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dotblankOk so here is a quick mockup of the new ui im going to be using witrh my grooveshark client09:40
dotblankits not done yet but it has some more things to add to it and replace some of those ugly buttons09:40
dotblankAlso need to adjsut the way the layout spaces out the elements09:40
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* timeless_mbp has centos grabbing fremantle12 sources using apt-get source :)09:45
* timeless_mbp offers dotblank an integrated spellchecker09:45
dotblankpssh spellcheck takes too long09:45
timeless_mbpdotblank: 1. please place the toolbar *below* everything09:45
timeless_mbp2. the search box is traditionally the row right above the toolbar09:46
dotblankah well my idea was to place the progress bar on the very bottom and when you click it pops up witht he controls09:46
timeless_mbp3. progress can be stuck into the titlebar if you like09:46
MiXu-_Hmm. Ok actually the HDR images are really sucky. It's not obvious from N900 screen.09:46
MiXu-_But on PC...09:46
timeless_mbpor you can use an infobanner09:46
timeless_mbp4. 'online' is a huge waste of space, stick it into the titlebar09:46
dotblankonline gets removed when you are searching09:47
timeless_mbp5. the wrench shouldn't be something people need to access often09:47
timeless_mbpso it should be a menuitem, not a button09:47
dotblankmenuitem button where?09:47
timeless_mbpwhen you tap the app title, of course :)09:47
dotblankthis is ment to run full screen I plan to replace the ".." witha radio button09:48
dotblanklike "radio" as in music radio station09:48
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timeless_mbp…. a wrench should not be in the toolbar09:50
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timeless_mbpif your design requires a user to frequently change settings, you're doing something wrong09:50
dotblankIm trying to think where I would put it09:50
timeless_mbpi don't think you need to use full screen09:51
timeless_mbplook at how app manager and friends do live search09:51
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Wolfietimeless_mbp: app manager's search is highly unintuitive09:51
Wolfiethere's no indication of live searching capabilities09:52
timeless_mbpWolfie: platforms have conventions09:52
timeless_mbpthe `brilliant` people behind the n900 platform chose this convention09:52
dotblankwell its more of a submission box. a live search may not functionw ell with network requests09:52
timeless_mbpit's present throughout09:52
timeless_mbpit works in addressbook, email, the home screen, the call app09:53
mneptoktimeless_mbp: your nick seems familiar ...09:53
dotblankYea but from a usability standpoint I don't think it will function as well09:53
timeless_mbpdotblank: then it should work like the browser find bar which again is placed at the bottom09:54
mneptoktimeless_mbp: were you a UDS attendee at some point?09:54
timeless_mbpdotblank: consistency with a platform is important09:54
Wolfietimeless_mbp: maybe, but i still thought someone had killed the search function in the manager. If a platform has the convention of crashing all the time, would you make a timed crash-convention to your application, too?09:54
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timeless_mbpWolfie: yes09:54
kerioare there guidelines UI for maemo?09:54
timeless_mbpwhen the browser stopped crashing, we got yelled at09:54
kerio*UI guidelines of course09:54
timeless_mbp(seriously, it blocked shipping 1.2)09:54
* kerio is still half asleep09:54
dotblankWell I don't think I can do a live search with this app.. it would make it send more network requests and prevent users from correcting search mistakes09:55
keriotimeless_mbp: huh?09:55
dotblankIts not a big deal on those other apps because search is fast09:55
timeless_mbpkerio: there was an addon to the browser which had a slow but persistent leak09:55
dotblankeach search over wifi network requests take about 1.5 seconds09:55
timeless_mbpbecause the browser pre 1.2 crashed frequently enough, the leak was mostly harmless09:55
keriotimeless_mbp: hahaha09:55
keriooh wow09:55
timeless_mbpwhen the browser stopped crashing shortly before 1.209:55
mneptok"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds ..." - Ralph Waldo Emerson09:55
timeless_mbpthe system started falling over09:55
timeless_mbpand people blamed us09:56
timeless_mbpso we seriously considered adding a periodic crash09:56
Wolfietimeless_mbp: that's just sad09:56
timeless_mbpthankfully someone found the stupid addon and got their code to suck less09:56
fralskerio: forum nokia has the ui guidelines09:56
kerioyeah, why bother fixing a tube that leaks water09:56
keriolet's just blow up the house regularly09:56
timeless_mbpkerio: the key is that the tube isn't owned by the same group as the house09:56
timeless_mbpso all the house could do was start over09:57
timeless_mbpand people didn't blame the tube vendor, they blamed the house09:57
timeless_mbpa slightly better analogy is09:57
timeless_mbp"everyone out of the pool09:57
timeless_mbpwhy? oh, there's some yellow or brown stuff in it09:57
timeless_mbpis that stuff the pool's fault?09:57
timeless_mbpabsolutely not09:57
kerioisn't microB opensource anyway?09:57
timeless_mbpbut when you're kicked out of the pool, you blame the pool09:58
kerioalso, *ew*09:58
timeless_mbpkerio: it wasn't microb's fault09:58
timeless_mbpit was an addon09:58
Wolfietimeless_mbp: anyways, back on track, the app manager example... I never said that the app manager's search implementation was bad. I just didn't know it was there. A search box that would've faded away, or something else, would've hinted me that there's a search function09:58
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timeless_mbpand fwiw, nothing requires an addon to be open source09:58
Wolfieso I needed to come here and complain why someone had taken the search function away09:58
timeless_mbpWolfie: i'm not going to say i *like* the platform conventions09:58
timeless_mbpjust that they *are* the conventions09:58
Wolfienow, think about those frustrated who used the search function from the menu, updated to 1.2, and don't have access to #maemo09:59
timeless_mbpthe people behind the n900 conventions did a lot of things w/ which i absolutely disagree09:59
Wolfietimeless_mbp: i understand.09:59
timeless_mbpWolfie: hey, don't blame me :)09:59
dotblankWell I don;t think the live search convention would be usable in my app09:59
timeless_mbpbut you could blog to remind people09:59
Wolfietimeless_mbp: i'm not blaming you a bit09:59
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timeless_mbpdotblank: again, the apps which don't do live search use a find bar above the (optional) toolbar at the bottom of the screen09:59
timeless_mbpe.g. notes/browser10:00
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dotblankOk but typical convention in media players is to have the player controls on the bottom10:00
timeless_mbpand again, i'm not saying that i necessarily like the designs10:00
timeless_mbpopen the browser10:00
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timeless_mbpexit full screen10:01
timeless_mbptry ctrl-f10:01
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timeless_mbpopen notes, switch to rich text mode, try ctrl-f10:01
dotblankalso note some of the conventions break portability10:01
kerioi still don't get why the first menu i get is not the one that i get when i'm on a page10:01
timeless_mbpyou mean the bookmarks list?10:02
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timeless_mbphow much do you want to get?10:02
* timeless_mbp knows where nearly all the skeletons are buried10:02
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keriotimeless_mbp: some things are better left unknown10:03
timeless_mbpsure… i can omit pieces :)10:03
kerioanyway, i get the "Find" bar in both places10:03
* timeless_mbp still thinks kerio "is asking for it"10:03
timeless_mbpthe short version is that the browser engine can take a little bit of time to start, and thus giving the user something to look at and pan through or dig through while the browser is starting was deemed a fairly good idea10:04
keriohaha what10:04
keriothat's... hideous10:04
timeless_mbpoh come on10:04
keriowhy are you telling me this, my n900 was perfect when i bought it10:05
timeless_mbpyou've been using maemo5 for more than a day10:05
kerioand now it's full fo bugs10:05
Wolfiekerio: a pretty common practice, actually10:05
timeless_mbpit's called smoke and mirrors10:05
timeless_mbpand it's a very standard practice10:05
kerioi liked my smoke and mirrors!10:05
timeless_mbpyou can keep them!10:05
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Wolfiekerio: i've heard of confirm dialogues put in places where some actions have taken time, that actually don't do anything.... just to keep the user occupied10:05
timeless_mbpnext time, don't ask why there's smoke ;-b10:05
Wolfiehides the load time, makes the application appear faster10:05
timeless_mbpthat wouldn't shock me in the least10:06
Wolfie(the confirm dialogues didn't do anything, i mean)10:06
dotblankWolfie, that sounds dishonest10:06
Wolfiedotblank: that's just practical psychology10:06
timeless_mbpdotblank: welcome to UX design10:06
timeless_mbpif the user thinks "oh, it's responsive, and responsibly waiting for me"10:06
ShadowJKhm, the external sd card on my N800 is actiny bad10:06
dotblankWEll say its like you hit "download" and a confirm dialog pops up10:06
keriotimeless_mbp: so... UX designers assume the user is a moron? :P10:06
timeless_mbpthe user will not blame the program for the time elapsed before the user confirms10:06
timeless_mbpkerio: um… sure?10:06
dotblankand you want to time the download10:06
* ShadowJK wonders if he wore it out or if the slot has gone bad10:07
timeless_mbpusers … are....10:07
timeless_mbpusers who want to time downloads *are* morons10:07
kerioit's a phone for nerds!10:07
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timeless_mbpit's practice for dealing w/ other kinds of morons :)10:07
fralsusers == morons, tis true10:07
Wolfieactually, let me dig up a very interesting talk10:07
* frals confirms10:07
dotblanktimeless_mbp, wait what? I think if my router had a connection that goes down down often and he needs to wait untill its back up10:07
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timeless_mbpdotblank: there's a url in the topic w/ logs10:08
dotblankand because he thought the confirm dialog started the download he is now confused10:08
dotblankespecially when you try to debugg stuff10:08
Wolfiedon norman is awesome10:08
Wolfiein that talk, he explains how you get people think extreme cold doesn't actually suck as much as it did10:09
timeless_mbp0% [Connecting to (]10:09
* timeless_mbp kicks r.m.o10:09
timeless_mbpah, it's back10:09
Wolfie"it's all about the experience", as he puts it10:09
dotblankIn referance to his example about the powerpoint presentation10:11
dotblankwhy not set the next button someone presses on the first slide as next10:11
fralserr is it just me or has the weather in helsinki gone from blue sky to cloudy as hell in 15minutes?10:12
dotblankthat way 90% would think it works the way they expect it10:12
dotblankWho is going to hit back whilst on the first slide?10:12
Wolfiedotblank: don't ask me, i'm not a professional UX designer. Just someone interested in the topic10:12
Wolfieand i guess that was totaly besides the point anyways10:13
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Wolfieit was more of a matter how people look at the world differently, and it's "simply obvious"10:13
Wolfieand you couldn't imagine thinking otherwise10:13
DocScrutinizerfrals: that's your dark thoughts about users10:13
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dotblankI didn't see the video :)10:13
dotblankjust read the text10:14
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fralsDocScrutinizer: doh :( /me starts to think happy thoughts instead10:14
dotblankI'm too busy10:14
timeless_mbpfrals:  sure10:14
timeless_mbpand i missed the sky because i was watching the video10:15
fralswhen i worked to the office it was sunny.. glad i brought my jacket anyway :P10:15
timeless_mbpdotblank: that's what i would do10:15
timeless_mbpauto tuning to the user10:15
Wolfiedotblank: watch the video too10:16
infobotfrals meant: when i walked to the office it was sunny.. glad i brought my jacket anyway :P10:18
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Wolfieheh, it's good to have vacation with all this nice weather :)10:19
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timeless_mbpnice weather?10:21
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timeless_mbpCTCP LOCATION10:21
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WolfieRaisio, finland10:22
fralsbtw where do you buy cheap cables in helsinki.. like hdmi and tp?10:22
Wolfie23C, sunny through a veil of clouds. Not too cold, not too warm. Absolutely lovely10:22
timeless_mbpmost people go to verkkokaupa for most thingss10:22
Wolfiei presume you have clas ohlson there, too?10:23
timeless_mbpwe do10:23
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Wolfieor biltema, but those are most often not in the centre10:23
fralsyeah, wonder if they are cheaper than verkkokauppa or not10:23
fralskamppi and one cross the street from stockmann10:23
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timeless_mbpanyone recognize that nokia phone from the talk?10:28
timeless_mbparound minute 1610:28
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timeless_mbp3.7G    total10:30
timeless_mbpok, that's the source size that i collected using apt-get source10:30
timeless_mbpfor fremantle10:30
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Maceris that a lot or something? :)10:34
timeless_mbpi need to figure out if it's similar to the older fremantle10:35
Kaadlajktimeless_mbp: nokia 662010:35
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* timeless_mbp grins10:41
timeless_mbp@ 30:50 or so he says ~the worst thing you can do is clean up a messy person's office~10:41
Wolfiegave me a warm fuzzy feeling, too10:41
* timeless_mbp has had people "helpfully" clean things10:42
timeless_mbpi curse them for months thereafter10:42
timeless_mbpthe glass/silver coffee maker is cool10:45
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Wolfiei've long drooled for a vacuum brewer, simply for the awesomeness factor10:47
timeless_mbpthe sad thing is...10:47
jacekowskii don't drink anything except water and pepsi10:47
timeless_mbpi don't drink coffee, but i could still imagine getting that10:47
jacekowskifull fat and full sugar pepsi10:47
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jacekowskitimeless_mbp: i could imagine getting one of these pepsi machines10:48
timeless_mbpwhich ones?10:48
timeless_mbphave you seen the newer coke machines?10:48
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: newer?10:48
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: i'm talking about that mcdonalds like thing10:48
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jacekowskithat's nice10:49
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jacekowskibut i don't do pepsi10:49
* timeless_mbp rotfl10:49
jacekowskiseriously i can blindfolded tell a difference10:49
jacekowskipepsi is a lot sweeter10:50
* timeless_mbp nods10:50
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jacekowskii might have ETOOWARM today10:51
jacekowskifridge i had here has decided to give up10:51
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timeless_mbpi'm going to have ENOTV soon10:51
timeless_mbpmy lcd has issues turning on10:51
jacekowskiso i would have to use fridge that everybody else is using10:51
fralshmm, nice, welho has a package so i can get all the swedish channels10:57
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JaffaMorning, all10:58
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timeless_mbpt 48:43 is awesome10:59
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timeless_mbpfwiw, t 50:00 has the "keep people occupied" bit11:01
timeless_mbpwhich is what we were talking about for the browser11:01
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nas_does anyone now if on easydebian -> debbie  is there any way to have full screen ( without time / status / title bar )11:05
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X-FadeMohammadAG51: ping11:07
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* timeless_mbp grumbles11:20
* timeless_mbp tries to remember how to figure out the directory name that apt-get source will use11:20
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Corsactimeless_mbp: sourcename-sourceversion (without revision)?11:23
timeless_mbp[timeless@domU-12-31-39-0A-8C-36 fremantle12]$ cat mesa_7.1~RC3-0maemo1-recomp1.dsc |egrep 'Source|^Version'; ls -ld mesa-7.1~RC3-0maemo111:26
timeless_mbpSource: mesa11:26
timeless_mbpVersion: 7.1~RC3-0maemo1-recomp111:26
timeless_mbpdrwxrwxr-x 3 timeless timeless 4096 Nov 13  2008 mesa-7.1~RC3-0maemo111:26
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timeless_mbpi think the trick i used was to use apt-get source —download-only and then parse the output11:26
timeless_mbpbecause it would tell me the names of the files i needed and then i could use dpkg-source w/ -d11:26
Corsac-recomp1 is the debian revision, so it seems to be that11:26
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timeless_mbpright, but how do you get that?11:27
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timeless_mbpyeah, using apt-get source —download-only; dpkg-source -x foo.dsc foo is my friend11:29
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* timeless_mbp is pretty sure that's what the old scripts did11:37
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curiositybangethy all12:03
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Vanadis_Workcuriositybanget, hai12:07
curiositybangetfinally, someone live in there12:07
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Vanadis_Workcuriositybanget, they're propably all zombies12:09
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* Vanadis_Work watched Highschool of the Dead last night12:09
curiositybangethehe, i'm in zombie land12:09
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curiositybangetbtw, sry if my english is terrible, i'm still learning12:10
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curiositybangeti'm looking someone here to discuss bout meego12:11
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curiositybangeti like user interface of meego12:11
curiositybangetare u still there vanasis?12:12
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curiositybangethy all12:15
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timeless_mbpcuriositybanget: you still want #meego ..12:20
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curiositybangetoops, i think i'm in wrong room, meego n maemo, start with m, hehe12:23
curiositybangetthx bro12:23
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* timeless_mbp tries to remember which stupid features exist in fremantle sources12:32
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timeless_mbplrwxrwxrwx 1 timeless timeless     1 Jul  6 17:45 alsa -> .12:33
timeless_mbpyeah, there's that one12:33
* timeless_mbp grumbles12:33
timeless_mbpvery helpful12:33
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eternal197hey all, wondering if anyone can help me out with swap partition priority12:37
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eternal197cant for the life of me seem to get both emmc swap and sd swap to change priority, or to respect the pri= setting in /etc/fstab12:38
eternal197which means that since the sd card priority is set to -2, it doesnt do shit12:38
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eternal197any ideas anyone?12:38
timeless_mbpso um12:44
timeless_mbpwhich are you trying to brick?12:44
timeless_mbpyour n900, or your sd card?12:45
timeless_mbp… and why?12:45
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eternal197brick? not trying to brick anything. trying to use two swap partitions at the same time to relieve io pressure in a high swappiness state12:52
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sugnanhello, how to hide a particular icon or widget of an application running on the tablet, from being showed on the tv out, i know it is possible, the media player in n900 is already using that feature,in which the media player control icon wont be shown on tv out,12:58
BCMM_When did Conversations get that "join chat room" button?12:59
BCMM_In pr 1.2?12:59
eternal197BCMM_:yeah 1.2 iirc12:59
BCMM_I'm using Conversations right now12:59
eternal197is it easy to use in a chat room scenario?13:00
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Jaffasugnan: There was a thread about the various ioctl/sys interfaces to control the video out on maemo-developers a few months ago13:01
BCMM_sugnan: i suspect that the n900 can do what certain desktop graphics cards can, which is make a hardware video overlay fill the tv-out screen13:01
BCMM_Eternal197: not as nice as xchat13:02
BCMM_Beeps for all messages13:02
sugnancan it be done using Qt somehow?13:02
BCMM_A window open for each channel, and you /part if you close them13:02
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BCMM_No highlighting13:03
BCMM_I wish xchat scrolled like this though13:03
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sugnanJaffa: can we use ioctl/sys libs with Qt13:04
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Jaffasugnan: I guess so, at the expense of portability13:05
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BCMM_I can't see why you couldn't use ioctls using pure c++13:05
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sugnanok Jaffa will try, thankx13:06
Jaffasugnan: is the thread I'm thinking of13:06
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nidOsigh, wtb more reliable ovi suite :<13:08
* timeless_mbp sighs13:08
timeless_mbpso, there is a disadvantage to doing piecemeal scanning13:09
timeless_mbpwhole unit scanning means that any identifier which is defined in any part of the system will be recognized as an identifier in any other part13:09
timeless_mbpbut if i do it unit at a time, then something defined in one part and only vaguely used in another party might not be properly recognized as an identifier :(13:10
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jacekowskieternal197: it's not going to change anything really13:10
jacekowskieternal197: esspecialy considering that uSD card is slower than eMMC13:11
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eternal197jacekowski: fair enough. out of interest, any idea how much faster emmc is?13:14
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BCMMhow does one sync the clock on the n900? ntpd sounds like a very bad move in terms of battery life13:14
jacekowskiBCMM: gps13:14
BCMMis there a "synchronise once then quit" NTP client?13:14
jacekowskieternal197: depends on uSD card13:15
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jacekowskieternal197: from my experience 2-3x faster at least13:15
BCMMjacekowski: ah, i heard mutterings about getting gps time, how do you do that?13:15
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nidOthere is also network-operator provided time, though that requires your network to broadcast a time and doesnt actually work properly on the n90013:16
jacekowskiBCMM: start any gps app13:16
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timeless_mbpeternal197: please note that the uSD card can be unmounted randomly13:17
timeless_mbpwhenever you manage to drop your n900 violently13:17
timeless_mbpor if you ever remove the back cover13:17
BCMMjacekowski: ah, it automatically gets gps time when the gps is in use?13:17
jacekowski100M read from emmc 5.16s, 7.01 from uSD card13:17
jacekowskiBCMM: yes13:17
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nidOit does?13:18
timeless_mbpremoving the swap volume from a live system when it isn't expecting it should be catastrophic13:18
nidOif so, that certainly doesnt work with the device set to automatically keep it's time from the network broadcast timr13:18
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: kernel will just return EBUSY13:18
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: instead of unmounting it13:18
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timeless_mbpjacekowski: when it's physically gone?13:18
timeless_mbpthat doesn't work :)13:19
jacekowskinidO: how do you set it to sync to network broadcast?13:19
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* timeless_mbp isn't certain about removing just the back cover13:19
timeless_mbpbut certainly if it gets out of place, it's gone13:19
nidOsettings > date/time > update automatically, i'm led to believe uses network time13:19
timeless_mbpand the kerne should get quite pissed13:19
jacekowskinidO: no13:19
nidOthough for me it doesnt, and never has, worked properly13:19
jacekowskinidO: it uses gps time13:19
nidOwell, that doesnt work right then13:20
nidOmy n900's clock has always been 5 minutes fast with automatic time enabled13:20
timeless_mbpjacekowski: really?13:20
* timeless_mbp was pretty sure gps time as a primary was ruled out13:20
nidOI was always under the impression it used network-broadcast time13:21
nidObut whichever it uses or should use, it clearly doesnt use it right13:21
timeless_mbpeasily tested13:21
timeless_mbpdisable gps13:21
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timeless_mbpdisable auto time13:21
timeless_mbpmunge your clock13:21
timeless_mbpreenable auto time13:21
timeless_mbpif it changes, it obviously isn't _limited_ to gps time13:22
nidOits not, then13:22
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nidOjust did that, set my time to 11:00 manually13:22
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* timeless_mbp isn't certain how to prove that it never uses gps for time13:22
nidOand it flicked straight back to 11:2613:22
nidOwhich is also wrong13:22
timeless_mbptypically, being wrong is a function of lame cell towers13:22
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nidO11:26 also is *not* the time being broadcast by either my network or by gps13:22
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lcukive not had any device change time automatically until i put ntpd on13:23
lcukespecially after removing battery and date rolls back to 200913:23
* timeless_mbp looks for an end userhat13:23
jacekowskilcuk: hmm13:23
jacekowskilcuk: that's wrong13:23
timeless_mbp… end user hat13:23
jacekowskilcuk: there is small battery that's supposed to keep rtc running13:23
timeless_mbpmy mac doesn't mention 'ntp', but it definitely fixes the clock for me :)13:23
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lcukjacekowski, then something must be wrong with it.  its been like that for ages :S13:24
timeless_mbpmy windows computers don't mention ntp eitiher, and they too fix the clock :)13:24
lcuktimeless_mbp, windows has internet time enabled :p13:24
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timeless_mbplcuk: maybe you've never had the privilege of using end user operating systems ;-)13:24
timeless_mbplcuk: yeah, but i don't have to start "ntpd"13:25
lcukwindows xp here13:25
timeless_mbpit's just something the system *does*13:25
lcuki know :)13:25
timeless_mbpthere happens to be a time service (and you can stop it)13:25
timeless_mbpbut you didn't have to 'start ntpd' to get windows to give you the right time13:25
lcukclock issues are something linuxy ;)13:25
lcukeven worse when i used to use winscp to copy files about13:26
timeless_mbpfirefox has a feature mostly designed for Lusers (linux users)13:26
lcuk1 hour time differences and drifts meant13:26
timeless_mbpsystem != utc?13:26
lcukgcc would always moan about clock skew!13:26
timeless_mbpwhen it encounters an expired certificate, it tells you the current time13:26
timeless_mbpso you can recognize when your clock is wrong13:26
timeless_mbpinstead of just assuming the server is busted13:27
lcukincorrect time by 1 second is enough to make gcc panic.13:27
timeless_mbpand i can say designed, because i was the one who did it :)13:27
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timeless_mbpand i had nxxx's in mind :)13:27
dotblankanother screenshot :)13:28
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dotblankgot rid of the bottom bar... I need to place the progress bar ina  creative spot13:29
lcukdotblank, nice high contrast theme13:29
timeless_mbpdotblank: fwiw, having really short rows is not finger friendly13:29
dotblanklcuk, yea turned out better then I thought13:29
sandst1dotblank: how'bout if the blue background of the song name would also be the progress bar?13:29
timeless_mbpthe progress bar is for search, not download, right?13:30
lcukdotblank, in portrait theres so much more space for ui!13:30
dotblanksandst1, I tried doing it actually but the styles for maemo qt isn't letting me13:30
timeless_mbpstick progress into the search box, like the browser uses the urlbar13:30
lcukbut without a keyboard its like stepping back in time13:30
dotblanktimeless_mbp, good idea13:30
sandst1dotblank: make a custom one?:)13:30
timeless_mbpdotblank: something tells me the button in the bottom left corner in portrait is stupid13:30
timeless_mbpwhat's it do?13:30
dotblanktimeless_mbp, playlist13:31
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dotblankallows you to re arrange songs add radio stations13:31
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timeless_mbpyou can't use that icon13:31
timeless_mbpat the very least13:31
dotblankI need a new icon13:31
timeless_mbpthat icon has a specific meaning13:31
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dotblankI just picked something that looked like a list...13:32
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dotblankI'm going to go icon hunting for more13:32
keriowhat meaning?13:32
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timeless_mbpkerio: it means show / hide the tree view to the left of the content area13:36
timeless_mbpit's used by the Feed Reader13:36
timeless_mbpbut the icon meaning is fixed and consistent on more than just Maemo13:36
timeless_mbphowever, in Maemo, it's not a good idea to use split views13:36
kerioi see13:36
timeless_mbpthere isn't enough space13:36
timeless_mbpand there absolutely isn't enough space in Portrait!13:36
dotblank :)13:37
timeless_mbpanyway, it's food-o'clock13:37
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lcukMohammadAG51, ping13:53
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lcukdoes Fake (of laser cut stand fame) come onto irc?13:59
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pigeonhmm, i'm trying to disable the auto update check completely, i've set /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval to a pretty large number, but it seems to be still doing it from time to time, especially after a reboot, any clues?14:36
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X-Fadepigeon: Put the host names in /etc/hosts and point to ?14:38
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pigeonheh, well that would work, but that would disable manual update too then i imagine...14:40
MohammadAGX-Fade, as I said yesterday, you forgot the binaries
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X-FadeMohammadAG: I got a bit more progress on the perl-modules case.14:40
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X-FadeMohammadAG: Apparently the package is on an exclusion list for SSU.14:41
X-FadeThe person managing that list is on holiday of course ;)14:41
X-FadeBut if it is removed from that list, it will show up in the ssu repo automatically.14:42
X-FadeSo I need to be convincing ;)14:42
MohammadAG51forzen-bubble's convincing enough right? :p14:42
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Juozapashow to install midnight commander ?14:44
MohammadAG51apt-get install mc14:45
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timeless_mbpX-Fade: fwiw, i'm working on getting fremantle1.2 indexed14:49
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Juozapaswhere i can find directories created by file manager'14:59
Juozapasvia terminal14:59
lcukor on memory cards perhaps15:00
Juozapasno, its not there15:00
Juozapasi create directory books' via file manager but it isnt in Mydodcs15:00
Juozapasok, found it15:01
lcuk:) where was it hiding15:01
MohammadAG51~seen javispedro15:02
infobotjavispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 40d 11h 3m 4s ago, saying: 'oh.. aisleriot solitaire with clutter/3D vista-like animations! port port port !'.15:02
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Juozapaslcuk: i was disabled hidden files showing15:03
lcukJuozapas, ? in the console?15:04
Juozapasin mc15:07
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lcukJuozapas, well - thats not really fair, mc isnt the terminal15:08
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Juozapasyeah its my fault15:09
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tobis87is it possible to prevent auto device lock to reactivate the screen, if the screen is turned off?15:13
laurihey guys, how are those small icos called on N900? For example wifi indicator15:15
lauri--> How can I do them in Qt4?15:15
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tobis87DocScrutinizer: I want the device to lock (with key), but I don't want the screen to reactivate by this.15:30
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tobis87DocScrutinizer: If the screen gets turned off after 30 seconds and the device locks after 5 minutes. It will turn the screen on again for 30 seconds.15:33
DocScrutinizerhmm, that's a bug15:34
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DocScrutinizerfile a ticket15:35
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PolarFoxOh btw.. Did USB Host project die already? :)15:36
DocScrutinizerzombie state15:36
PolarFoxLiving dead.. Scary sh*t.15:37
lcukDocScrutinizer, whats needed to progress it15:37
DocScrutinizerI don't know why none of the devels is contributing anymore15:37
Appiahdid not know that was a project..15:37
DocScrutinizerAppiah: h-e-n15:37
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: hcm did some kernel cleanup and tests and claimed it doesn't work and needs further investigations/fixes/cleanup, but I don't see anything happening after that. There've been 2 or 3 drive-by-lurkers that were very interested for a day and then vanished15:40
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lcuksure DocScrutinizer thats the way things normally go, gee the troups perhaps15:41
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: I'm busy with a lot of other crap last ~4 weeks, so didn't push much15:41
* lcuk nods15:41
* hcm is also busy :(15:41
DocScrutinizerhi hcm :-)15:42
AppiahDocScrutinizer: H-E-N?15:42
Appiahi see15:43
tobis87DocScrutinizer: I don't have an account for, because I somehow failed to install the sdk on my old linux machine and I also have not the mood to discuss with all those iphone lovers from Could you or someone else please file this bug?15:43
hcmhi DocScrutinizer :) lucky coincidence that I looked here when you mentioned my name.. usually I don't read much here, takes too much time..15:44
DocScrutinizertobis87: you don't need to discuss with tmo iphone lovers. bugtracker is a separate thing15:44
DocScrutinizertobis87: creating an account is a matter of 2 minutes15:45
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tobis87DocScrutinizer: OK, I will do this.... later this evening15:52
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: hcm: seems the position of project leader in h-e-n still is vacant. I never been the lead kernel hacker, and all helping hands savvy of kernel hacking are just asking who's telling them what to do.16:01
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lcukyeah DocScrutinizer i even poked in, but ive got my own hardcore nighttime hacking to do16:02
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chadiI see my laptop name on my N900 in the first screen of media player. I click on it, it opens a page but nothing happens. Am i supposed to do anything for this to work?16:25
nidOadd music/video to the upnp server on your laptop16:25
chadihow do I get it to work?16:26
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lardmanhmm, tesseract16:28
lardmanI wonder how much effort it would take to get that to read from a raw image buffer... :)16:28
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nidOthinking of something along the lines of phototranslate?16:29
lardmanyeah, but adding it as a decoder to mBarcode16:29
lardmandepending on how cpu intensive it is that is16:29
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alteregoPrototype is coming along nicely :)16:30
Sceltwat is dat?16:30
alteregoIt's a screen for an app I'm writing.16:31
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Sceltkristoffffer kolumbus16:31
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alteregoThe app probably wont be called that, that's just what I'm using at the moment in the absence of a better name :)16:31
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SceltLike a pirate arrr16:32
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lardmanI can feel the world cooling already16:32
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chadinidO: so I need to install some king of upnp server on my laptop?16:36
nidOyou evidently already have a upnp server on your laptop, thats why it's appearing in the upnp servers area of your device's media player.16:37
chadibut, I click on the icon, the loading circle shows up, and nothing displays in the list..16:38
nidOnothing will display in the list if you havent added any content to your upnp server to serve.16:38
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chadiso I have to configure upnp on win716:39
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_0x47Anyone could help me with debugging with ESbox? (Setup is done, just debugging drives me nuts)16:50
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shuklaI am using ubuntu 10.04. Whenever I terminate program using Ctrl + C. I get a sementation fault17:08
shukla[1]+  Segmentation fault      Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac17:09
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SpCombshukla: start17:10
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* RST38h watches, amusedly, may2010ers discussing stuttering N900 video on tmo17:30
RST38hWrite only users, indeed17:30
RST38hGreat at keeping each other company though. Once the lemming finds out he is not alone, he gets all warm and fuzzy inside17:31
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tybollt_o/ meego -o/17:34
D-IivilHow to find out what's eating my rootfs? Free space dropped from 98 megs to 50 megs and I can't figure out what could be the cause.17:34
sandst1hi. could someone enlighten me about the differences of modification of a normal file vs a device file. I'm playing around with the proximity sensor and trying to catch modifications to /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state with inotify. Normal file modifications pop up, but state ones don't. Any clues..?17:34
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sandst1(and no, i don't want to implement it with a timer :P)17:36
MohammadAGwhoever designs back covers on Nokia phones needs a good kick in the arse17:36
SpeedEvilAs I understand it - the sysnode has to explicitly support inotify/...17:36
SpeedEvilAs of course - it doesn't _actually_ exist as a file.17:36
MohammadAG(although looking at the N8, I think he already got it)17:36
SpeedEvilSo it has to fake it on interrupt.17:37
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sandst1SpeedEvil: Oookay, i see. makes sense17:37
SpeedEvil/usr/bin/gnu/find */fd -ls|grep prox17:38
SpeedEvil/usr/bin/gnu/find: `4091/fd/5': No such file or directory17:38
SpeedEvil 65507    0 lr-x------   1 root     root           64 Jul  6 15:38 770/fd/16 -> /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state17:38
SpeedEvil 50227    0 lr-x------   1 haldaemon haldaemon       64 Jul  6 15:37 844/fd/6 -> /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state17:38
SpeedEvilfor example17:38
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SpeedEvilso - look at whatever process 770 or 844 is doing to it17:39
SpeedEviland hald-addon-gpio17:39
alteregoMohammadAG: wanna see my latest app? :)17:40
MohammadAGalterego, oh boy17:40
MohammadAGa compass app?17:40
alteregoIt's a "wireframe" of the UI I'm working on.17:40
SpeedEvilalterego: plot the sats on the compass?17:40
alteregoIt's going to be more than that17:41
MohammadAGattached a compass to the N900?17:41
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alteregoSpeedEvil: that's why it's there :P17:41
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MohammadAGor is it based on GPS17:41
alteregoMohammadAG: GPS17:41
alteregoSpeedEvil: The circle compass, looks kind of useless because the top compass is more effective. But it will display GPS sat location and the rings will be used to indicate how good the lock is, a green inner ring will be good lock, orage middle will be okay, and red fouter will be poor.17:42
alteregoOr something like that.17:42
alteregoI've not started working on the "theme" engine yet, but that will be completely customisable in the end.17:42
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alteregoThat's just one screen out of the program though and it's not complete yet.17:43
MohammadAGalterego, does it share my exact longitude/latitude on telepathy?17:43
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alteregoJust wanted to start showing off  :)17:43
alteregoMohammadAG: I was going to possible include that, it's on my "Possible features" list.17:43
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Stskeepsmoo macer17:43
alteregoAt the moment I'm refactoring my custom widgets.17:43
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MohammadAGalterego, yay, you're turning maemo into android :P17:44
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SpeedEvilalterego: have you seen 'mappero' - 'gps details' -> satelite details17:44
alteregoMohammadAG: I personally think the coolest feature will be the ability to stick any of my custom widgets on the home screen, so you can effectively create your own GPS UI17:44
alteregoSpeedEvil: I think I saw a screen shot.17:44
alteregoSpeedEvil: my app isn't a mapper, at least, I don't intend it to be one.17:44
alteregoIt's a "Navigation Tool" :)17:45
lardmananyone here used tesseract on maemo? How fast/slow did it run?17:45
luke-jralterego: will it support tonal Tims?17:45
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alteregoluke-jr: I don't know what that is17:45
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SpeedEvilI mean - there are several apps that show a flat projetion of the sky hemisphere - and onto that - plot the satellite numbers and signal strengths.17:45
luke-jralterego: boo17:45
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tobis87did anyone succeed in compiling the ksb26 kernel module for the n900? I tried to compile it on the device, but it seems it is too x86 specific. uses x86 semaphore and byteorder asm.17:46
lcuklardman, whats tesseract17:46
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myMoeUzerI found in the root of my filesystem ('/') a file called rb.log, does anyone else here have that?17:46
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lcukmyMoeUzer, what does it contain17:46
myMoeUzerit just says 'GOT HERE' , a bunch of times17:47
Stskeepstobis87: ah17:47
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SpeedEvilmyMoeUzer: I do17:47
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myMoeUzerdo you know from which application its coming from?17:48
SpeedEvilI have around 70 installed - so no.17:48
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luke-jralterego: 22.5 degrees per Tim17:49
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alteregoluke-jr: very cute17:49
alteregoluke-jr: I was planning on having different "profiles" like "marine, aero, cycle, motor" etc.17:49
alteregoSo I could be persuaded into adding that, maybe ...17:50
lcukmyMoeUzer, SpeedEvil open app manager installed apps list and type "r" - are there any "rb" apps17:50
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myMoeUzerlcuk: thank you! appaerantly its coming from 'rescue-boot'17:55
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lcukmyMoeUzer, :)17:58
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: i am surprised about your tmo post .. will the n900 work with the approx 4V from battery applied to the usb port?18:06
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jacekowskicehteh: 5V18:06
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jacekowskicehteh: it will work18:06
cehtehjacekowski: i know usb is 5V ...18:06
DocScrutinizer51cehteh: 4V yes. I think it will18:07
cehtehbut he suggests a dongle with a battery switch18:07
MohammadAGNeed a second opinion, BH-505, or a BH-214?18:07
X-FadeHaven't used 505, but 214 works fine for me.18:08
solrizelightspeed zulu ftw :)18:08
cehtehbtw last days i did a 3day vacation with mappero on while biking on 2 batteries ...18:08
cehtehbut *very* conservative battery use18:08
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cehtehcelluar off most of the time, pre-downloaded maps etc18:09
jacekowskiMohammadAG: S80518:09
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MohammadAGjacekowski, not used to those type of headphones, prefer in ear ones (otherwise I would've got the BH-905) :P18:11
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DocScrutinizer51cehteh: 'I think' here means it still needs both check vs datasheet, as well as a practical test18:11
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solrizebh-905 has compatibility probs w/n90018:12
cehtehyeah i may try that, undervolting shouldnt harm18:12
cehteh(at least i hope so)18:12
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cehtehand i still thinking about a bike charger .. or just buing this bumm e-werk18:13
solrizewhy 4v?18:13
MohammadAGX-Fade, how's the sound quality?18:13
MohammadAGsame as the stock headphones?18:13
cehtehanyways .. removing back-cover shouldnt unmount the FS .. i have to stop that too :P18:14
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: well, thing is that it depends if it will detect VBUS or not18:14
X-FadeMohammadAG: It is ok for my purposes.18:14
DocScrutinizercehteh: Input voltage   lower limit Input    power source detection min3.6 typ3.8 max4 V18:14
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jacekowskihmm, that would explain it18:14
cehtehDocScrutinizer: btw did you analyzed the power adaptor yet (the small connector which is in the pack)18:15
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cehtehis that a simple linear regulator or something more smart?18:15
DocScrutinizermore smart. seems like a SPSU18:15
MohammadAGRST38h, XChat 2.8.8 source is available, any chance you'll update the maemo version?18:15
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solrizecehteh, wowww18:16
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chem|stdoes anyone know where powertop is gone?18:16
jacekowskicehteh: a lot smarter18:16
jacekowskicehteh: google for bq2415018:16
DocScrutinizerchem|st: never been 'there'18:16
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jacekowskiFully Integrated Switch-Mode One-Cell Li-Ion Charger with Full USB Compliance and18:16
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jacekowskiUSB-OTG Support18:16
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: the adapter probably has no bq2415018:16
jacekowskiall in 1.976 x 1.946mm 20-Pin WCSP Package18:17
cehtehjacekowski: not the buildin controler but the small cable dongle18:17
jacekowskicable dongle?18:17
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cehtehthe one for the old nokia chargers .. forgot its part name18:17
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DocScrutinizercehteh: probably it could be used to fix the 4V issue18:17
jacekowskithat cable dongle thingy18:18
cehtehi am tinking about abusing it as controler for bike charging and external battery pack18:18
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cehtehfor the bike dynamo it makes power conditioning way easier, just rectify, zener and cap ...18:18
cehtehfor battery just a 6 cell mignon pack18:19
DocScrutinizercehteh: the problem is it has cans/shields/heatsinks sodered in a way you can't really check what chips are used18:19
solrizecehteh, i still don't understand why 4v to the usb port, why not 5v?18:19
solrizeand it seems like lame n900 hardware design that you cant hot swap from external power without doing tricks, like you can with a laptop18:19
cehtehsolrize: DocScrutinizer suggests to temporary hook a n900 battery there while changeing them18:19
DocScrutinizersolrize: because battery has 3.7 to 4.2V18:19
jacekowskisolrize: it's not hardware, it's software18:20
solrizeso you'd use three batteries?18:20
solrizeanyway, use a mintyboost converter or equivalent18:20
cehtehsolrize: did you even read the thread i posted?18:20
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: btw. it doesn't look like there is any code related to thermal protection in BME itself18:20
solrizecehteh yeah it's a good thread18:20
solrizebut it says there's some emergency charge mode that doesn't have enough power to run all the hardware at once18:20
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solrizewhich is why it seems like lame hardware design18:20
cehtehDocScrutinizer: are the 1.5mm and 2mm ports brided to the same input or treated differently?18:21
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: mhm. Stskeeps(?) mentioned it's a co-work of bme and mce or some other *e18:21
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DocScrutinizercehteh: they are both equiped with a schottky to protect aginst reverse voltage18:22
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: yeah, dsme pulls temperature from bme18:22
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: and seems to return alarm conditions18:22
cehtehDocScrutinizer: when i have some time i give it a try18:23
DocScrutinizerwell, I have a switchable PSU here, could test with 4.5V and with 3V18:23
cehtehwould be awesome when i get bike charging work with very simple hardware18:23
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jacekowskii can try it tomorrow with full range 0-30V18:24
cehtehhave fun with 30V :)18:24
* Myrtti pokes lcuk 18:24
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* lcuk looks up at Myrtti18:25
lcukheya konttori \o18:25
Myrttilcuk: see twitter18:25
DocScrutinizercehteh: jacekowski: indeed :-P18:26
lcukMyrtti, you are a goddess tytytytytytyty for finding that18:26
Myrttilcuk: I love you too18:26
jacekowskiMyrtti: you're a female?18:26
lcukhow awesome are those :D18:26
Myrttithey're not as nice as Gelaskins IMO, but I bet you can find something nice from there :-)18:27
Myrttijacekowski: news at yesterday at 110018:27
Robot101lcuk: are you looking to rice out your N900? :D18:27
solrizeer whats on twitter?  those n900 cases??18:27
solrizethey are nice18:28
MyrttiRobot101: I riced out my N1 with another skin today ♥18:28
Robot101the Collabora company colours, of course ;)18:29
lcukRobot101, ive wanted decent skins for ages - wjt got first pink one for tracy but that was crap so she got another that was also crap, now these are transfers and will work sooooooooo much better18:29
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chem|stok I am stuck at load 1.1 again not even rebooting helped this time18:29
Robot101haha, wallpaper and skin alignment... neat :)18:29
Myrtti ♥ pink18:29
Myrttimeh, that's the same one...18:29
Robot101shame it's an android phone though, I gave mine away because it was annoying me :)18:29
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MyrttiRobot101: nobody gave me a N900 and I used my money on buying an eReader, so... *shrug*18:30
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lcukMyrtti, speaking of ereaders - ;)18:30
MyrttiGODDAMMIT terminator opens up firefox...18:31
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tybolltMyrtti: sei ruhig18:31
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Myrttiok then...18:32
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lcukMyrtti, im so pleased we had coffee in .fi last time i was there now :D18:33
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tybolltzOMG you can have COFFEE in finland?18:35
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Robot101really only... ish.. :P18:36
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Myrttitybollt: here, have a lollipop18:37
Myrttiyou definitely need some cheering up18:37
tybolltMyrtti: I'm swedish... you know the people who commit suicide ;P18:38
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Myrttihow cheery. such a positive attitude today. What a good thing I didn't log in to IRC earlier today.18:44
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jacekowskiis there a camera app that can save raw/png/anything lossless?18:50
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tobis87so does anyone know a good alternative to ksb26, which can "intercept and redirect tcp connections  through socks 4/5 chains" <- which would be especially usefull, because you cannot define proxies for all programs.18:52
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Macerthe lost one cracked me up18:52
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kerioMacer: the "no reward" bit was awesome18:55
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lardmanlcuk: sorry got called away, it's an OCR engine18:55
lardmangot to go now, but with bbiab18:55
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* chem|st is getting tired of restarting hildon-* stuff19:06
alteregochem|st: developing something dodgy? :P19:06
chem|stalterego: nope just basic behaviour19:07
alteregochem|st: like ?19:07
chem|stafter 48h hildon-home freezes 1st restart19:07
alteregoWeird ..19:07
alteregoDon't have that problem19:07
chem|stafter 72h something puts my load to 1.2+19:08
chem|stand makes the battery drain that fast that I have to charge every night19:08
chem|stI had that with python stuff and PR1.1 after 96h19:09
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chem|stnow I got it with PR1.2 after 48h freeze19:10
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chem|stand no python stuff to blame :(19:10
tobis87ok, tsocks would also work, but every program needs then to  be started from the shell.19:10
chem|stfirst time I had that load going up to 1.2+ I started/stopped fmtx and it was gone19:11
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chem|stafter I rebootet19:11
chem|stsecond time again no action after reboot, restarting -home, fmtx didn't do anything good19:12
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chem|stthen I stopped various processes till I hit one the watchdog was after and the device rebooted itself, then it was back to normal...19:12
chem|stand so on19:13
chem|stI cannot reproduce the problem and I cannot reproduce the solution19:13
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chem|stmost of the time a reboot doesn't help19:13
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chem|stthis time I restarted all hildon-* things then I rebooted still nothing, then I restarted -home again and it was back to normal...19:14
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ponyofdeathanyone know whats up with the upstart package missing sysvinit-utils missing dependencies?19:43
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Nadleyhi evrybody19:44
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Nadleyhey kerio how are you ?19:51
Nadleyfine fine I had to reflash my n900 since I broke some system files :D19:52
Nadleybut now is OK19:52
keriooh crap mame 0.138u119:52
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Nadleyactually I want ton install firefox but I dont know if I had to add a repository or to use the firefox website19:53
mortiniif you go to
mortinithere's a 'download' link19:53
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mortiniwhich will add the repo & then download ff19:53
keriook, i need 217gb, 8mb, 804kb and 635b19:54
kerioon my n90019:54
keriowhat's the biggest microsd i can use?19:55
Nadleymortini: ok thanks19:55
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timelesserr, you "need 217gb" ??19:57
Nadleykerio: why so much :d19:57
keriotimeless: full mame romset for 0.138u119:57
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timelessyou're not going to be able to do better than 64gb if that w/ the n90019:58
mikki-kuntimeless: should be doable via sshfs'ing an external disk ;)19:58
luke-jrtimeless: sshfs?19:58
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luke-jrmikki-kun beat me to it!19:58
* timeless is pretty sure that wasn't listed as a supported configuration by the person w/ the need19:59
SpeedEvilAs I understand it, sdxc should be quite doable.19:59
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mikki-kunSpeedEvil: sdxc is not supported imo by the cardreader...19:59
kerioi just need to wait for the usb host guys to do their magic19:59
keriothen i guess i can walk around with a portable hd20:00
timelessyou guys are all nuts20:00
mikki-kunkerio: don't expect too much for that though...20:00
timelesssshfs makes more sense20:00
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keriobut how am i going to play metal slug in a place with no coverage?20:00
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SpeedEvilmikki-kun: It's not a cardreader, it's a SD/SDIO interface unit. As I understand it, it can do it no problems. I haven't yet found a nice spec though.20:00
kerionot to mention my data plan is crappy20:00
timelessyou own 217gb of games?20:00
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* timeless finds that surprising20:00
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timelessi'm not sure i own 217gb of movies20:01
SpeedEvil'own' is possibly a strong term.20:01
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keriotimeless: well, there are a lot of games that just don't work20:01
timelessa movie is what, 2gb?20:01
kerioin multiple versions, based on the country20:01
mikki-kunSpeedEvil: and i read somewhere, that the new fat-design is in some way licensed...20:01
cure`haha SpeedEvil20:01
luke-jrtimeless: I easily have a couple TB of anime20:01
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timelesskerio: you want to carry around and play games that just don't work?20:01
* timeless shakes head20:01
keriotimeless: this is supposed to be the future!20:01
cure`anime, now there is something i will never understand20:01
SpeedEvilmikki-kun: That's assuming you care about xfat - or whatever it's called20:02
Macertmobile is pissing me off20:02
Maceri want to cancel the easypay crap an do things on my own bank web site20:02
timelessluke-jr: i enjoyed anime in college20:02
luke-jrcure`: that's like saying you'll never understand 3D rendered series20:02
keriotimeless: is the internal flash replaceable?20:02
timelessand i know plenty of friends w/ sizable collections20:02
Macerand the link to cancel it has been broken for like 3 weeks20:02
SpeedEvilkerio: yes20:02
mikki-kunSpeedEvil: xfat, thanks... that was its name...20:02
SpeedEvilkerio: In principle.20:02
kerioSpeedEvil: what's the biggest i can buy?20:02
lcukisnt avatar essentially anime?20:02
SpeedEvilkerio: In practice, no.20:02
timelessi guess i might have 1tb of movies assuming each dvd i own is 5gb20:02
cure`i didnt like avatar either :P20:02
SpeedEvilkerio: In that with the right soldering station, you can replace it.20:03
MohammadAGlcuk, nah20:03
cure`for the thin storyline20:03
timeless(probably not though)20:03
mikki-kunSpeedEvil: problem just being with xfat is, it seems to be the new standart as manufacturers seem on picking it up20:03
luke-jrtimeless: I've found rewatching stuff I liked years ago is dull, so as with all content, your tastes change over time :P20:03
keriotimeless: well, tekken 4 has three versions - and neither one of those works20:03
Solarioncure`: my wife pointed out, quite rightly, that it's _Dances_With_Wolves_ in space.20:03
luke-jrlcuk: avatars are like icons...20:03
* lcuk isnt terribly good at naming comicstyles20:03
SpeedEvilmikki-kun: Sure. Doesn't mean you can't put ext4 on it20:03
MohammadAGlcuk, anime carries a different meaning nowadays :p20:03
Macerlet me live chat with an india indian20:03
lcukluke-jr, shush i meant the movie20:03
Maceri'm sure he can do it20:03
luke-jrlcuk: movie?20:03
Macer(or she)20:03
timelessanyway, some of my college mates would buy anime once it was officially available in English20:03
MohammadAGluke-jr, LOL20:03
luke-jrtimeless: dubs aren't anime, they're lame copyoffs20:04
cure`its like, the movie starts and within 10 minutes you'll know where its gonna end20:04
mikki-kunSpeedEvil: hm, i am hoping either manufacturers steer away from xfat or it'll get free to use20:04
MohammadAGluke-jr, I hope you're kidding
luke-jrMohammadAG: no, why?20:04
lcukluke-jr, i am eternally surprised you have anything more advanced than an abacus20:04
timelessluke-jr: i think generally official subtitles20:04
timelessor official alternate audio tracks20:04
timelessnot necessarily dubs20:04
SpeedEvilmikki-kun: There is no alternative at all20:04
lcuki watched the "taxi" series of french movies this week20:04
luke-jrtimeless: often the commercial subtitles suck too :/20:04
SpeedEvilmikki-kun: They can't stay away from it.20:04
MohammadAGlcuk, heh, they're cool, watched them years ago though :(20:05
lcukand the last one had english subtitles that must have come directly from google translate20:05
lcukit was awful20:05
mikki-kunSpeedEvil: why can't they stay away from it?20:05
MohammadAGmight rewatch them :D20:05
lcukmovies are cool20:05
lcukreally chilled20:05
luke-jrI would be slightly surprised if someone didn't think Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 was worth watching ;)20:05
timelessiirc Princess Monokome and perhaps Ghost in the Shell had US releases20:05
lcuktracy came upstairs and when she realised it was foreign assumed it was pron20:05
luke-jr(after having seen it, ofc)20:05
SpeedEvilmikki-kun: Selling a camera that can record only onto an ext4 filesystem, which cannot be (simply) read by - say - 99% of people.20:05
luke-jrtimeless: I never cared for those genres20:06
* timeless shrugs20:06
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luke-jrlcuk: this Avatar movie looks live action, not anime20:06
timelessmy point is that i'm not entirely supportive of people who say "it's ok to steal foreign content"20:06
mikki-kunSpeedEvil: hm... good point... man, this is really all m$ fault20:06
lcukluke-jr, the actors are computer generated and BLUE20:06
luke-jrtimeless: me either20:07
lcukonly the smurfs are similar20:07
luke-jrtimeless: but I can't find a place to buy TM8 at all :/20:07
keriolcuk: saw the south park spoof of avatar?20:07
luke-jrlcuk: CG isn't anime either20:07
lcukkerio, nope, i dont watch cartoons20:07
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lcukbut im gona anyway, time for simpsons20:07
timeless Tokyo Magnitude 8.0 ?20:07
SpeedEvilI'm a lot more supportive of 'stealing' content you can't - for no good reason - buy.20:08
luke-jrtimeless: yeah, that's not really in a genre I like either, but it's unavoidably worth watching20:08
timeless$18.19 new20:08
timelessLogicalmart USA20:08
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timelessspeedevil: hence my comment about people who would buy it once it was available in the us market20:09
luke-jrtimeless: good find O.o20:09
luke-jrtimeless: sure that's licensed?20:10
timelessluke-jr: i was tempted to wonder that aloud20:10
* timeless isn't sure how to tell20:10
timelessmy friends from college would know...20:10
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luke-jrall I found the other day was Region 220:10
luke-jrDisc Type : DVD x 120:10
luke-jrpretty sure TM8 was only ever made in a series of 5 DVDs/BluRay20:11
timelessit's listed as region free20:11
* timeless really wonders how to figure out if it's licensed :(20:11
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* lcuk bangs head on wall20:11
timelessthey claim to be based in UK20:12
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timelesspresumably you could contact a BB in the  UK or something for reputation info20:12
lardmanwho's this?20:12
lardmanI see no actual company address...20:14
lardmanand HQ is in 3 countries20:14
timelesslardman: i don't know anything about the UK20:15
timelessbut is it possible to figure out if a company is real?20:15
keriometal slug lags20:15
SpeedEviltimeless: Mostly harmless.20:15
SpeedEviltimeless: Define real.20:15
SpeedEvilYou can look up companies house records20:15
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timelesshas articles of incorporation20:15
luke-jrSpeedEvil: selling copyrighted materials legitimately20:15
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timelesshas been established for as long as it claims20:16
lardmantimeless: yeah, Companies House should have details of the directors20:16
luke-jr claims "All items sold by are licensed, legal for sale and technically compliant in the countries of dispatch. "20:16
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timelessthe real goal here is to ensure that the company is selling properly licensed media20:16
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timelessspeedevil: eep, my irc client split that at .gov., so i was going to ask a stupid question :)20:17
* timeless joins the .uk portion20:17
timelessspeedevil's link doesn't seem to list it :(20:18
* lardman feels his skin crawl writing VB6 code20:18
* SpeedEvil ponders rewriting his tesco scraper.20:18
SpeedEvilThey 'improved' the website.20:18
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timelessSpeedEvil: if someone makes a claim to be headquartered in .uk, and has a .uk domain20:19
timelessis it possible to go after them if they aren't incorporated?20:19
SpeedEvilOTOH - the nutritional info looks easier to parse.20:19
SpeedEviltimeless: I think not - there are very few requirements IIRC20:19
lardmanSpeedEvil: mBarcode plugin!20:19
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SpeedEvilNominet say: 4.4 We do not impose restrictions on your  status as applicant for the registration of a Domain Name in the  following SLDs ("Open SLDs"):   4.4.1; or 4.4.2
SpeedEvilSo, no20:20
SpeedEvillardman: no barcode data still - well - except incidentally where the packages happen to show it20:20
lardmanbut if they trade legally they must be a company20:20
timelessluke-jr: if i were you, and i was interested20:21
SpeedEvillardman: no20:21
lardmanSpeedEvil: oh, shame20:21
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timelessi'd contact them and ask for info20:21
timelessyou might be able to contact their credit card processor too20:21
SpeedEvillardman: it's legal to trade with - IIRC - not telling anyone but the taxman - if you're small enough20:21
timelessif they turn out to be bogus, do the web a favor and call them out on some of the rating services20:21
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lardmanSpeedEvil: fair enough20:22
RST38hheya lardman20:22
timelessnot a good sign :(20:23
lardmanhi RST38h20:23
* lardman gets bored of portmon logs and goes to do the washing up, bbiab20:23
timelessi wonder if you can complain to google product search20:24
kerioyay mame is unusable20:24
luke-jrtimeless: they're not the only store w/ that DVD20:24
* timeless nods20:25
timelessstill sucks though20:25
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trip0so is it just me, or does meegotouch in the maemo repos seem half-assed?20:26
* timeless chuckles20:26
timelesswhy do you ask? :)20:26
lcukas long as it works with your fingers, i dont care for buttock interface quality20:26
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luke-jrtimeless: BTW, ethical opinion on downloading fansubs and, if I like it, buying (unusable to me) Region 2 DVDs? :p20:29
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timelessluke-jr: i'd do it20:31
trip0timeless, you literally can't build apps against it because of dep issues20:31
lcuktrip0, are you trying to build in maemo?20:31
lcukif so, GOOD20:32
lcukwe need to iron out whatever may be there20:32
trip0lcuk, i'm trying to build a meegotouch app in maemo20:32
timelessit's kinda unfortunate that japan and europe are in the same region20:32
timelessbecause you're not able to show the vendor that there's demand in the US20:32
lcukok trip0 what problems do you keep having?20:32
trip0lcuk, autobuilder fails to bring in libmeegotouch-dev because libcontextsubscriber-dev is unavailable20:33
luke-jrtimeless: I don't get it20:33
luke-jrtimeless: also, I think that's a feature that will come with the next generation of artistic distribution (legal p2p and such)-- allowing people to buy derivative works legitimately (eg, fansubs)20:34
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timelessone goal is to encourage the producer to produce content which you can play20:34
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luke-jrthat is, by paying for the license to get the derivative20:34
* timeless nods20:35
lcukahh yes trip020:35
lcukwhy is meegotouch in nonfree?20:35
timelesswe're stupid ;-)20:35
trip0heh, good question20:35
timelessit's usually a good reason20:35
tybolltbecause by touching yourself you give up your freedom?20:35
timelessit probably means it was built by a nokia builder20:35
timelessand uploaded raw20:35
timelessinstead of using the autobuilder20:35
timelessmozilla used to be in non-free20:36
lcukwell it was uploaded without deps too20:36
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lcuktrip0, do you want to post on maemo-dev mailing list about this and lets see who or what can be poked to get it updated20:36
* lcuk will followup in the morning20:36
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timelesstrip0: i'd request you file a bug in bugs.maemo.org20:37
trip0i'll file a bug20:37
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lcukreasonable enough20:37
* timeless filed a few package bugs this week20:37
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lcukyeah that would be why i couldnt get any of the official meego apps to build20:37
timelesssome clever guy made a source package for linux kernel headers20:37
trip0doh, i have to create account20:37
trip0so much for being lazy20:37
timelesswhich is just as big as the linux kernel source package :o20:37
lcukyeah i saw timeless - that was on meego though wasnt it20:38
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lcuki mentioned the ML though because some coverage in normal circles that people are trying to build meegotouch apps on maemo would be good20:39
timelessoh yeah, please don't take my "please file a bug" as "don't send mail to the lists"20:39
lcuktrip0, once you file bug, let me know, ill tail onto cc20:39
lcuki am interested in seeing what specifics are needed for meegtouch apps in maemo20:39
keriowhat's meegotouch?20:40
keriomeego libraries for maemo?20:40
lcukyes basically20:41
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timelessit's a ui toolkit for meego20:41
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* lcuk goes making chips20:42
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kerio/dcc lcuk get chips20:45
timeless> In March 2009, former British Prime Minister Gordon Brown  received a "wrong region" message on a screen when attempting to watch a DVD set of classic American movies received as a diplomatic gift from US President Barack Obama.[22]20:45
keriowait, better be sure20:45
keriowhoops, sent the real command20:46
Stskeepsseen GNUtoo20:46
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Stskeeps~seen GNUtoo20:47
infobotgnutoo <> was last seen on IRC in channel #openmoko-cdevel, 2d 22h 21m 35s ago, saying: 'maybe ask PaulFertser '.20:47
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* lardman need a Windows reboot, back soon20:48
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trip0lcuk, is there a product I should be filing against?20:53
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trip0maemo6 tech preview?20:53
lcuksounds reasonable20:54
lcukMohammadAG51, sure come over, i cut too many20:54
povbotBug 10882: libmeegotouch-dev has missing dependencies20:56
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lcuktrip0, cool20:57
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lcukVOTED for this bug20:57
lcukand added self to cc20:57
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lcukanyone else interested in playing with meego touch applications on maremo need to see this bug highlighted and fixed20:57
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lcukhey lardman|gone21:01
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lardmanhi lcuk21:02
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* lcuk sighs21:09
lcuklol trip021:10
lcuksomething else actually ;)21:10
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trip0lcuk, btw, i've run meegotouch apps on a netbook...21:11
trip0i do like lots of things about running them21:11
lcukbut but but but thats like does not compute!21:11
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trip0on a netbook, it's actually easier to use than say, gnome apps21:11
lcuki bet sometimes they are21:12
trip0except for when keyboard and scroll wheel are required21:12
lcukcan be overcome21:12
lcukive gone back to not having a keyboard on my n90021:12
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* lcuk has it on a stand in portrait mode and is finding out how much requires neck snapping to look right21:13
lcuktho im liking portrait mode for laying out things :) feels more roomier21:13
trip0meegotouch runs slow on the n900 :(21:17
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lcukyou have the dependencies?21:18
* trip0 installed widgetsgallery21:18
trip0somehow... that's available21:18
lcukwidgetsgallery burns cpu cycles like a nuclear powerplant21:18
trip0yes, it does21:18
lcukbut it appears to do what it says on the tin21:19
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trip0i wonder if its because themedaemon isn't running...21:20
trip0(the slowness/high cpu-ness)21:20
lcukhigh cpu seems like its update method21:21
lcukand not realising its idle21:21
timelesshrm, fremantle1.2 is now merging its index :)21:21
trip0timeless, what does that mean?21:22 has fremantle1.0 basically21:22
trip0lcuk, hmm... just sitting here, widgetsgallery is at 0cpu%21:22
timelessi skipped 1.1 ...21:22
trip0when i scroll it goes up to 45% but is choppy as hell21:22
timelessbut i just set up a new system to do indexing21:22
timelessand it's doing them incrementally21:22
timelessso it indexes one directory at a time (512 of them)21:23
timelessand then it merges21:23
lcukhmm perhaps it was updated then trip0 (hopefully)21:23
lcukyou have a pm btw21:23
lcukbbl food ready21:23
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timeless(Pass 4) identifier 3013400 [upstart] of 460 / 512 files...21:23
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timelessthe incremental bit should enable me to better handle cases where there's an update to just one package21:24
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timelessit should only show the meego content :)21:25
timelessoops, wrong window21:25
PolarFoxwtf just happened.. I didn't input my pin code for ... 30 minutes or so.. and now N900 booted to some weird mode.. :)21:27
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PolarFoxLike I don't have a window manager .. and one desktop.. with all the widgets from every other desktop too.. :)21:28
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PolarFoxHmm.. I didn't even enter my locking code..21:30
solrize   yikes21:30
PolarFoxI am here program?21:31
PolarFoxmight it be that one? It's a stealthy bugger.. ;)21:31
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nidOit baffles me how a keyboard manufacture can release an expensive keyboard that can't properly be used as a keyboard :<21:36
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timelessooh, all done21:39
D-IivilHas anyone seen error message like this @ N900: screen goes white with Nokia logo (same as boot) and upper left corner has green text "unexpected malfunction. device will shutdown in 10 seconds" :D21:39
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* cehteh hopes never seeing that21:40
cehtehwell .. what did you do to your device? custom kernel, overclocking, faulty reflashing, dropping, became wet? ...21:40
D-IivilPhone did boot up after taking battery out, but I still reflashed since I could not figure out what was eating the rootfs...21:40
D-Iivilcehteh, I suspect it was because of overclocking and something corrupted.21:41
cehtehso you reflashed now and it works again or it doesnt work since you reflashed?21:41
D-Iivilcehteh, works fine after reflash :)21:42
cehtehtoo much overclocking then21:42
D-IivilAnd OC @ 950mHz.21:42
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cehtehsome vital data got corrupted, filesystem structure or whatever21:42
D-Iivilcehteh, probable that's the case. It just was a small wtf-moment when the text appeared :P21:43
cehtehmaybe even some hardware damaged .. have fun :P21:43
D-Iivilcehteh, that's risk I have chosen to take :P21:43
cehtehi have mine at 750Mhz, wont go any higher21:43
trip0mine is 850 right now21:45
trip0but it's more stable at 75021:45
cehtehsooner or later people will fry their device :P21:45
BCMMjust get several n900s and make a cluster21:46
BCMMbetter battery life than overclocking, and cheaper in the long run21:46
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D-IivilNever had any stability-issues even with 1050mHz.21:48
cehtehyou had at least one ...21:49
cehtehbesides a lot if errors leap in silently and corrupt data in the back21:49
D-Iivilcehteh, heh :D21:49
lcukBCMM, wheres the clustering software, i have the n900s :P21:49
D-IivilBCMM, don't have enough pockets for a cluster made of N900s :P21:49
* lcuk is working on clustering tho ;)21:50
cehtehoften unnoticed, sometimes not persistent because you close the application which gets corrupted before you notice21:50
cehtehyou prolly only notice errors when they damage vital data which gets written to disk21:50
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cehteh(or cause a instant crash)21:51
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cehtehin any way that may be only a faction of all errors which occur by overclocking21:51
D-IivilAnyways, just wanted to share the bizard error. Now I'll go and warm up sauna :)21:51
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cehtehwith OC n900? :)21:52
MohammadAG51not this again21:52
cehtehMohammadAG51: btw how do you manage to get a 6 minutes boot?21:52
MohammadAG51cehteh, idk21:52
FIQwhy doesn't greasemonkey work properly?21:53
MohammadAG51telepathy loads the device a lot when signing in21:53
MohammadAG51signing in takes a lot of time on some protocols21:53
FIQit prompt for installing the script but clicking "Yes" results in nothong21:53
BCMMyeah, you can't really declare an OCed system stable unless you've run memtest or something for many hours21:53
MohammadAG51hildon desktop regenerates a menu full of a shitload of icons21:53
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MohammadAG51any ideas when/how the N900 will support packet injection?21:54
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cehtehraw sockets or wlan packets?21:55
BCMMMohammadAG51: wouldn't that be a simple kernel recompile?21:55
BCMMoh, what cehteh said actually21:55
cehtehwell first one should be doable with stock kernel, second on, dunno how21:56
MohammadAG51idk, for aireplay-ng21:56
MohammadAG51wlan i suppose21:56
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kerioi thought the kernel-power already did that21:57
kerioaireplay is reported working afaik21:57
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MohammadAG51with --deauth?21:58
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RST38hAnyone seen Gizmodo RSS entries that contain a huge decimal number instead of the text???21:59
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D-IivilTemperature check of the day: outside +23C, N900 +35C, sauna (soon to be) +80C, beer +4C22:01
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RST38hBeer+N900=15.5C aka dead N90022:02
D-IivilRST38h, :D22:03
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D-IivilRST38h, priceless photo indeed :P22:04
mortinihah, i used to work for this guy that had all these open share pr0n shares on his laptop. he'd go to do sales calls on various client sites22:06
mortinii always wondered what'd happen if a client found his pr0n share22:06
ZogGporn ftw22:07
mortiniesp. because some of the clients were extra-conservative22:07
ZogGcan some one feel the bug report on maemo, we need new flash to watch porn on n90022:07
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RST38hZogG: it will slow down the device22:09
RST38hso I would rather not!22:09
D-IivilRST38h, porn will slow down the device?22:09
tobis87BCMM: you would only need to recompile the wlan module.22:11
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RST38hD-Iivil: Flash player will22:13
D-IivilWhat would be the easiest language to start learning if I wanted to make a GUI for simple copy / rename / move files script?22:13
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RST38hThere is a command line utility for showing simple dialogs22:13
D-IivilFor maemo522:14
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RST38hThat would probably be the best22:14
D-IivilRST38h, I'm already using zenity.22:14
RST38hBesides that, either C++/Qt or C/Gtk+, with C++/Qt being easier22:14
MohammadAG51D-Iivil, python imho is easy22:14
D-IivilBut I was thinking of coding something more intuative since it seems like I have to add lots of options to my theme color scheme selector.22:15
RST38hI would recommend Python, but then your installer would be unusable for anybody who has no Python installed22:15
MohammadAG51nope, just depends on it :P22:15
RST38hAdding options to qt or gtk+ stuff is not a problem, as long as you have got the base program right22:15
RST38hIt all becomes more or less cut&paste job at that point22:16
D-IivilDoes Python have some sort of visual design software for Win or Ubuntu?22:16
RST38hbut, again, visual design is overrated22:16
RST38hespecially for UIs which do not require you to provide absolute placement22:16
tobis87D-Iivil: Maybe geany22:16
RST38hGeany is not a visual design tool22:16
tobis87ok, but does help a lot22:17
RST38hNot at all22:17
RST38hAs I said, it does not do UI design22:17
RST38hMore or less like MSVC IDE22:17
D-IivilOfcourse it would be more helpfull for the future to learn the basics and code it from the scratch.22:17
RST38hD-Iivil: For practicality reasons, I suggest Qt/C++22:17
D-IivilAlready installed Nokia QT SDK but haven't yet looked into it closely.22:18
RST38hD-Iivil: You do not need it22:18
RST38hD-Iivil: Plain vanilla Scratchbox will do22:18
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RST38hMadde will probably do as well22:18
MohammadAG51scratchbox owns the Qt SDK tbh22:18
D-IivilRST38h, yeah. And I already have scratchbox running.22:18
MohammadAG51i find the deb packager retarded22:19
RST38hD-Iivil: As I said before, the visual design stuff is overrated: you will find yourself spending 70% time fighting the designer and go plain text anyway22:19
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RST38hD-Iivil: One important thing is to STAY AWAY FROM AUTOTOOLS22:20
noctuleevening all22:20
MohammadAG51lol yeah22:20
lcukRST38h, they say notepad built more of the web than any GUI designer tool22:20
RST38hYou do not need autotools to compile a Maemo app.22:20
MohammadAG51RST38h, XChat 2.8.8, NAO22:20
RST38hlcuk: Well, notepad is stretching it22:20
RST38hlcuk: It is kinda difficult to use22:21
RST38hlcuk: But NANO does the job, indeed22:21
lcuknot really, did you see the amount of geocities hackers who spawned a generation :P22:21
RST38hGeocities and Hacker cannot be used in the same sentence22:21
lcukand i use hacker in the <blink>gentlest</blink>  manner22:22
Rabidusyou just did22:22
noctulelcuk: my eyes are still rubbish from all of the <blink> tags22:22
RST38hlcuk: That is called "script kiddie"22:22
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noctuleRST38h: geocities predated the script kiddies by a looong shot22:22
RST38hah really...22:22
noctuleNow, I *shows age* remember when all of the javascript web chats started up...22:23
noctulescript kiddie galore22:23
lcukscript kiddies were born of a head on crash between an AOL user and geocities god22:23
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noctulelcuk: too right!!!22:24
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noctuleI'm starting to feel all nostalgic for really badly designed websites and people using handles like "acidburn"22:25
lcuknoctule, relive that on myspace22:25
lcukacidjazz, hi btw \o22:25
noctuleI may need to medicate myself by slamming my head in the fridge for an hour22:25
konfoowe were callin em script kiddies in the 80s...22:26
konfooback when hacking x.25 was all the rage22:26
lcukbinary hacks to programs to replace title with "[doofus] was ere"22:26
noctulelcuk: hasn't myspace died yet?22:26
lcukyourspace mightv22:26
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Stskeepslo andrewfblack22:31
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acidjazzyo lcuk22:38
lcukhi acidjazz :D22:39
* RST38h wonders what evil he should commit tonight22:40
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noctuleDoes anyone here know who is maintaining claws on maemo 5?22:43
RST38hthe guy mentioned in the changes file?22:43
noctulelol good point.22:44
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Nadleynoctule: claws works on n900 ?23:17
jacekowskifor long time already23:18
Nadleyjacekowski: ok because if I look on the web site they juste talk about "Nokia internet   tablets such as the 770, n800, or n810"23:19
jacekowskiwell, any non opengl linux app can be ported with minimal effort23:20
jacekowskiwell, "ported"23:20
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GAN900Somebody seems to be thumbing a lot of stuff on Planet that's negative towards Nokia.23:23
noctuleNadley: It's been ported, but the interface needs some work to make it usable23:23
Nadleyok ok23:23
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noctulelast time I looked, modest had issues with gpg23:24
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noctulethat said, I don't search TMO nearly as much as I should do23:24
noctulethat's why I'm wanting to either work on the UI for claws, or build my own23:25
jacekowskiclaws is an overkill for n90023:25
noctulestarting from scratch on an email client is probably a lot more than my current available time allows though23:25
jacekowskimodest is too poor instead23:25
noctulejacekowski: could really do with something in the middle23:26
jacekowskii want something like mail client in opera23:26
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noctuleHaven't used opera's mail client. Anything to recommend it?23:27
jacekowskiwell, it's simple, fast and has fast working search23:29
noctuleDoes it cope reasonably well with encryption?23:29
jacekowskitransport level encryption or e-mail encryption?23:30
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noctuleemail encryption23:31
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noctulebah LOL23:32
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jacekowskii don't send anything like that over internet23:32
jacekowskibesides, where do you send e-mail that require encryption?23:33
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noctuleSadly, I'm one of the type that feels they should encrypt everything23:34
noctuleand I've been rather rubbish at that since getting my N90023:34
jacekowskiwell, i don't send any "sensitive" data over internet23:35
noctuleAll data is sensitive, in one way or another ;)23:35
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jacekowskibecause you can safely assume that if somebody wants to23:35
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jacekowskithen that data will be decrypted in less than ~20 years23:35
lcuknoctule, does irc support encryption (this channel)23:35
keriojacekowski: 20 years?23:35
jacekowskikerio: yeah23:36
keriouse a bigger key23:36
jacekowskiencryption test23:36
jacekowski+OK tzNYX0EzpAw/23:36
jacekowskithat's how you encrypt irc23:36
noctulelcuk: haven't tried23:37
lcukjacekowski, wouldn't that leave a stain23:37
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jacekowskikerio: well, bigger keys are easier to attack using related key attacks23:37
lcuknoctule, then you are leaking information now23:37
jacekowskikerio: and 256bit vrsion of RSA have been seriously weakened23:37
noctulelcuk: I've been bleeding data since January23:37
jacekowskikerio: to the level that on half decent cluster you can bruteforce it in less than 10 years23:38
lcuknoctule, not before?23:38
noctulelcuk: less before23:38
keriojacekowski: my faith in cryptography has been destroyed right now23:38
jacekowskikerio: every cipher has a weak side23:38
jacekowskikerio: it's only matter of finding it23:38
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lcukwhich is where human flaws usually come into it23:39
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jacekowskievery cipher will be broken23:39
noctuleyeah, think about the most recent "spy" news23:39
noctule27 characters, all written down for the stego app LOL23:39
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jacekowskidon't treat cryptography as permanent way of encrypting something23:40
jacekowskimore like a way of delayin when plaintext will be known by attacker23:40
jacekowskiwhere delay isn't known23:40
jacekowskiand it can be anywhere from seconds to years23:40
noctuleI've always seen it as a method of making it a waste of effort to decrypt23:40
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keriohow about just using pure 16k RSA?23:41
jacekowskinoctule: with current amounts of processing power23:41
jacekowskikerio: it's sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow23:41
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keriobut secure!23:41
jacekowskione time pad is secure23:41
kerioalso, quantum computing would solve RSA instantly23:41
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kerioget two random numbers, check if they're the public key23:42
kerioif they're not, destroy the universe23:42
jacekowskisort of23:42
noctulejacekowski: what was the key size for the Brazilian bloke that the FBI couldn't crack?23:42
jacekowskiquantum mechanics works on probability23:42
jacekowskinoctule: 128 bit23:42
jacekowskinoctule: but that's just luck23:43
RST38hThe universe is awaiting the next garbage collector pass, anyway...23:43
noctuleCouldn't remember right off. At least we have an estimation of weakness23:43
noctuleIt's still all probability that the very first brute force attempt cracks it23:43
jacekowskinoctule: yeah23:43
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jacekowskinoctule: that's why it's important to don't allow interception23:44
noctulejacekowski: Indeed23:44
jacekowskibecause if data is intercepted23:45
jacekowskiit will be cracked23:45
jacekowskiin one way or another23:45
noctulejacekowski: eventually23:45
jacekowskiand it's pure luck if it will be cracked when it's still usable for attacker23:45
jacekowskiin case of that brazilian bloke he got lucky that they couldn't crack it it in time23:46
jacekowskithat's why you should use 2 different ciphers as well23:46
jacekowskiso if somebody manages to find some flaw in a cipher you still have another23:46
SpeedEvilOr maybe not do anything illegal.23:46
kerioSpeedEvil: not really the point here, you know23:47
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: that's overrated23:47
noctuleDoing something illegal is neither here nor there23:47
SpeedEvilOTP is getting more and more plausible for stuff23:47
noctuleWhen it comes to sending messages, I just like to know that its at least plausible that it will only be read by the recipient23:47
noctuleand I like to sign my messages so that friends and family know that I'm the one that sent it23:48
jacekowskinoctule: you have strange family23:48
noctuleOr that someone sending the spam in my name at least has access to my pc23:48
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jacekowskimy family doesn't know how verify signatuere23:49
noctulejacekowski: you have no idea LOL23:49
SpeedEviljacekowski: It's an extended family!23:49
noctuleI had to teach them23:49
noctuleIt just means they stop forwarding me junk, mostly LOL23:49
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lcukSpeedEvil, whats most common mechanism for OTP23:58
lcuki tohught it was just a random sequence, formula unknown to all outside the system23:58
SpeedEvilI mean that - for example - a 16Gb OTP would have been unthinkable 20 years ago for many apps, now it's not.23:59
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SpeedEvilAnd that'll get you days of voice, or decades of text messaging.23:59

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