IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-07-03

b-manit's a special instruction set00:00
lbtX-Fade: just FYI ... doing a pvmove....00:00
keriothat does what?00:00
keriomaybe it can be emulated00:00
MohammadAGcrashanddie, hostmode worksforme, not for everyone else00:00
LantiziaI'm gonna buy a female adapter anyway00:00
LantiziaOne day someone will figure it  out :)00:01
kerioMohammadAG: is it possible to make a full dump of flash and emmc?00:01
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b-mankerio: it's basically macros at a machine level that are burned into the chip00:01
b-mankerio: and emulating it would be slow and impractical00:01
keriocan't you just recompile lucid in a way that it doesn't use them?00:01
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b-manlucid has tens of thousands of packages00:02
b-mannot possible00:02
kerioso better start now :P00:02
ShadowJKIs that thumb2ee because even N8x0 has thumb?00:02
keriostart a BOINC project00:02
MohammadAGlol lcuk see ##world-cup00:02
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MohammadAGb-man, you missed it00:03
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MohammadAGb-man, like, maybe 100 messages in 20 secs or sth00:03
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b-manShadowJK: yup, i believe it's thumb200:05
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b-manjeeez, i think everyone on ##world-cup is on a sugar high xD00:10
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MohammadAGb-man, nah, it's just football00:13
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Venemois it possible to somehow filter the "Active Topics" section in the sidebar on TMO?00:22
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lcukVenemo, i normally use:
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lcukits got a filter for subscripbed threads00:25
Venemolcuk: oh, I didn't know about this stuff00:25
Venemolcuk: thank you!00:25
* lcuk nods00:26
Venemolcuk: still, somehow hiding the threads would be the best solution00:26
Venemolcuk: the trolling threads of today simply pissed me off00:26
lcukVenemo, unsure havent been watching anything today00:27
* lcuk has been down with a headache00:27
* Venemo had a headache too, but had some sleep and the headache is gone now00:27
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lcukyeah i tried that 3 times00:27
* lcuk still feels fuzzy00:28
lcukeven watching football was tiring00:28
Venemolcuk: for me, it helps to drink more water when I have a headache00:28
lcukif i already have the headache its too late to do anything00:29
lcukcos extra water will just give ammo for my body to retaliate00:29
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Venemolcuk: however, these threads just brought back my headache:
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kerio"It has USB host mode capability"00:33
kerio(from )00:33
Venemokerio: ?00:33
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MohammadAGkerio, it does, even if it's broken (at the moment), it does00:34
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VenemoMohammadAG: what is the current state of it?00:34
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MohammadAGVenemo, same as before, sadly00:35
MohammadAGVenemo, only worked for 2 out of the rest of the 'team'00:35
VenemoMohammadAG: last time I checked (about a month ago), there was some experimental stuff that was working for some people but wasn't released00:35
MohammadAGyes, it works for me00:35
VenemoMohammadAG: huh, interesting. is it a software or a hardware issue?00:35
MohammadAGVenemo, software00:36
VenemoMohammadAG: and how come that it works for some people but not the others?00:36
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MohammadAGVenemo, no idea00:37
Meceanyone know how one can set the autobuilders optimization flags?00:37
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lcukMohammadAG, and i suppose DocScrutinizer - usb host mode:  what specifically would be required to allow a long time installation to be powered from usb but also connect to a usb device (arduino)00:37
crashanddieMohammadAG: what kind of hardware are they attempting to connect?00:37
VenemoMohammadAG: I mean, what can be different between their devices and yours?00:37
lcukMece, autobuilder doesnt have optimisation flags00:37
lcukbut your make file can direct your gcc etc to be optimized00:38
crashanddieVenemo: his is awesome, just like the owner00:38
VenemoMohammadAG: if the firmware is the same and the USB Host stuff is the same, then it is only the hardware that can be different. or this is what would seem logical00:38
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Mecelcuk, ok.. but it does a "dpkg-buildpackage: set CXXFLAGS to default value: -g -O2" that I believe is the root of my problem..00:38
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Venemocrashanddie: if that is the only requirement, it will most certainly work for me, too! :P00:39
lcukMece, nope00:39
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crashanddieno, you're not awesome Venemo00:39
Mecelcuk, nope what?00:39
crashanddieMece: nope you00:39
lcukyour problem is execting autobuilder to know what to do for each package00:39
lcukyour makefile knows that00:39
Venemocrashanddie: what makes you think that?00:39
crashanddieVenemo: for I am the one true seeer00:39
lcukor change your debian/rules to set them yourself00:39
Venemocrashanddie: lol.00:39
crashanddieVenemo: I do not think, I know00:39
Mecelcuk, I have no idea what you just said00:40
lcukmece autobuilder knows nothing about the source inside it - if you want optimisation flags, set them yourself00:40
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crashanddie("I do not think, I know" can probably be applied to most pub argument-participants)00:40
MohammadAGcrashanddie, same HW as i am (theoretically)00:40
lcukhey crashanddie \o00:40
Mecelcuk, but it defaults to -S2 if none is set?00:40
crashanddielcuk: why are you talking to Mece?00:40
crashanddielcuk: why are you talking to Mece?00:41
lcukMece, i dunno? do autobuilders do that?00:41
MohammadAGlcuk, nope, some russian guy00:41
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Mececrashanddie, is he not allowed?00:41
crashanddiedamn I'm confused, what the heck is happening00:41
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MohammadAGVenemo, or the speed they're trying to reproduce it at, the steps need some tricky timing00:41
VenemoMohammadAG: ah, so it is prone to human error?00:42
MohammadAGVenemo, it was hit/miss for me, but I got used to timing it right lately00:42
crashanddieMohammadAG: so what are you using?00:42
Mecelcuk, well I don't get that when I do buildpackage locally.00:42
MohammadAGcrashanddie, SanDisk Cruzer Contour 8GB flash drive00:42
lcukcrashanddie, w00t_ has been hacking on liqbase and its now being built with g++00:42
crashanddieMece: 'course he is, I misread, apologies00:42
lcuk(to change the subject)00:42
crashanddielcuk: nice00:42
crashanddiecongrats w00t_00:42
crashanddiew00t_: enjoyed the codebase?00:42
crashanddielcuk: any word on the young kid who did his GSoC on liqbase? What happened to him?00:43
lcukMece, hmm dunno then00:43
lcukyeah z4chh is still in chan00:43
Mecelcuk, can I find out what the exact command autobuilder uses?00:43
lcukhe went to military school00:43
crashanddiemilitary school?00:43
lcukwas starting just after gsoc00:43
lcukMece, i dunno00:44
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crashanddiewho wants to be a military these days?00:44
lcukcrashanddie, moncell is still working :)00:44
Mecemaybe he failed history..00:44
MohammadAGyeah, seriously, terrorism ftw00:44
MohammadAGoh... crap, channel's logged00:44
* MohammadAG runs00:44
lcukanyway - you asked where he went00:44
crashanddieMohammadAG: so you can mount a 8GB USB stick?00:44
jacekowskifuck me00:45
crashanddiejacekowski: no thank you00:45
jacekowskidsme protocol is a disaster00:45
MohammadAGjacekowski, i'd rather not00:45
jacekowskicompletly not future proof00:45
crashanddielast time I was fucked by a pole, it cost me a rear bumper00:45
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lcukcrashanddie, ive started reading books again00:46
crashanddielcuk: that must've felt weird, what you started with?00:46
MohammadAGcrashanddie, sec00:46
lcukand i tell you - this portrait patch is niceeeeeee00:46
lcukcrashanddie, not at all00:46
lcukits good feeling00:46
lcukthe one problem with original liqbase was that everything was in one app00:46
lcuknow things are nicely in standalone apps00:47
MohammadAGcrashanddie, even though that was an exploit that requires a PC, the same happens to me when I don't use a PC00:48
crashanddieyou just needed the PC for power though, right?00:48
jacekowskibut i mean seriously, if you think bme is a disaster00:48
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jacekowskithe i don't think there is are words to describe dsme00:48
crashanddielcuk: so liqbase will because lib-based?00:49
jacekowskis/is\ are/are/00:49
infobotcrashanddie meant: lcuk: so liqbase will become lib-based?00:49
Venemojacekowski: what is dsme?00:49
MohammadAGcrashanddie, no, it was used to put the device into host mode, completely defeating the purpose00:49
jacekowskidevice state managment entity00:49
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lcukcrashanddie, thats what the new framework was all about anyway00:49
Venemojacekowski: and what's wrong about it?00:49
crashanddielcuk: good00:49
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lcukjust couldnt get everything aligned carefully :)00:49
crashanddieMohammadAG: hmm00:49
jacekowskiVenemo: it's broken by design00:49
crashanddielcuk: or you didn't want to00:49
Venemojacekowski: how so?00:49
Mecelcuk, you who are wise in the ways of dpkg, configure is generated from, right?00:50
crashanddielcuk: sorry, I meant "or you had better/more urgent/more important things to do before that"00:50
lcukcrashanddie, everything has been a plugin from day100:50
crashanddieMohammadAG: so what are we stuck on now then?00:51
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Mecelcuk, and when exactly is configure generated? I can't seem to get it un-generated with clean and such.00:51
crashanddieMohammadAG: note carefully how I went from asking you questions, to using the pronoun "we".00:51
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crashanddieMece: clean doesn't remove ./configure00:51
lcukmece, me and autotools dont really get on - if i have to unautogen i normally reset git00:52
MohammadAGcrashanddie, also see
lcukmece but theres plenty of documentation about it all00:52
MohammadAGcrashanddie, what we're stuck on? we need proper kernel patches that make the device kick into hostmode properly00:52
MohammadAGcrashanddie, this too,
lcukcrashanddie, writing "class blah{...};" inside the library was a bit awesome, if i can use c++ sprinkled around it might help some things, but im keeping the C api because then its more sharable with other languages00:53
MohammadAGt-tan was unable to reproduce it00:53
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lcukMohammadAG, so the specs and changed have been identified now, you just need a kernel hacker to actually implement them cleanly?00:55
lcukspecs and changes00:55
VenemoMohammadAG: and what is it that is missing from your kernel?00:55
MohammadAGVenemo, it's not _my_ kernel, it's sarahn's00:55
MohammadAGI take no credit for that00:56
Andy80MohammadAG: at the end (I forgoto to say it) you can view our application in extras-devel :) the name is msoma (under Multimedia) please give us feedback if you want :)00:56
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MohammadAGlcuk, you already know where hostmode is being discussed :P00:56
VenemoMohammadAG: i meant the word 'your' in a plural sense :)00:56
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lcukof course MohammadAG im just reiterating what you are looking for00:56
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crashanddieMohammadAG: dude, if you're the first one to get it working, and manage to document it, everything's yours00:57
MohammadAGcrashanddie, not really00:57
lcukbecause most of the kernel hackers around dont know about the chan00:57
crashanddieMohammadAG: I think everyone knows where it's being discussed00:57
MohammadAGcrashanddie, it could be a borked device :P00:57
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VenemoMohammadAG: anyway, thanks for keeping us posted00:57
crashanddieMohammadAG: borked in a good way?00:57
crashanddieMohammadAG: "if it's stupid, but it works, it ain't stupid"00:57
VenemoMohammadAG: was there anyone else who could reproduce it?00:57
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MohammadAGblue_led I think00:58
crashanddieVenemo: I think we're again stuck in the position where everyone goes "oooh awesome", but nobody wants to dish out for a bloody female-female USB cable00:58
MohammadAGand a russian guy, but according to someone's translation, he used a PC first00:58
crashanddierussians can't be trusted00:58
lcuki made my own in the past using the extender ports from my desktop00:58
lcukusb host mode is useful for arduino hackers00:59
crashanddielcuk: it very much is00:59
lcukso far they have needed bluetooth modules and extra faff00:59
Venemocrashanddie: well, sine they say that it is unsafe, I'm a little afraid of it00:59
MohammadAGlcuk, i want to flash another N900 using host mode :P00:59
crashanddieVenemo: what's the worst that could happen?00:59
Venemocrashanddie: while I'm a software developer, I'm not into the ins and outs of USB00:59
Venemocrashanddie: honestly, I dunno :)00:59
lcukawesome MohammadAG01:00
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D-Iivilcrashanddie, end of the world?01:00
crashanddieVenemo: worst case scenario, the device starts sending out cancer-prone radiation, you get shot by the FCC agents and after 3 weeks of being man hunted by the whole planet for being an international terrorist, your family sets you up and you get hung with the same rope as Sadam Hussein, and end up in his grave, too.01:00
crashanddieso, i'd say it's definitely worth the risk.01:01
D-Iivilcrashanddie, or that :P01:01
Venemocrashanddie: well yes01:01
lcuk/whois crashanddie:  username: Michael Bay01:01
crashanddieWe're trying to get USB WORKING HERE01:01
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MohammadAGD-Iivil, doubtful, see
crashanddielcuk: lol :)01:02
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Venemocrashanddie: if I can't screw up the device by trying to get USB host work, I'm sold01:02
crashanddielcuk: he's a director, not a writer01:02
D-IivilMohammadAG, wtf? :D01:02
crashanddieD-Iivil: check the source code of the page01:03
Venemosee also:
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Venemolcuk: btw, did you get to the end of that comics site yesterday? :P01:04
lcuko_O it was probably that that gave me a migraine01:04
D-Iivilcrashanddie, how do you get the source with microB?01:04
Venemolcuk: I'm sorry.01:04
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MohammadAGD-Iivil, wget the page and cat it in terminal :P01:04
VenemoD-Iivil: just look at the title of that page01:05
D-IivilMohammadAG, well sure :D01:05
D-IivilVenemo, not shown completely in the MicroB (won't fit in)01:05
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vldcnstMohammadAG: that'd be a pain for urls using cookies01:05
VenemoD-Iivil: ah, sorry.01:05
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MohammadAGVenemo, the source code has some funny crap in it :P01:06
MohammadAGit's not just an echo "Nope."01:06
VenemoMohammadAG: okay, will check it out :)01:07
D-Iiviloh shit... it's one am already.01:07
crashanddielcuk: did you see the talk at TED that completely talks about Open Source, without ever using the word "Open Source"?01:07
lcukno, im watching taxi2 atm01:07
crashanddielcuk: bookmark it01:07
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VenemoMohammadAG: LOOOLLL... <!-- if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated please email to receive a full refund -->01:07
crashanddieworks a lot better when I give the link, I guess01:08
MohammadAGVenemo, check the if part :p01:08
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D-IivilI think I'll hit the bed now. Cya guys.01:08
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VenemoMohammadAG: i saw...01:08
crashanddieVenemo: I can only imagine the astronauts in the ISS seeing the black hole appear over switzerland going "Oh quick, we need to twitter this"01:08
MohammadAGGot my N95 back, twitter here I come :D01:09
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Meceok so I'm pretty sure that the issue I'm having is that CFLAG -S0 set in rules is ignored, and autobuilder sets default which is -S201:09
crashanddieMohammadAG: I can't believe I showed you that link, and now you're reaping all the fame of it :(01:09
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, I'm such an ass :)01:09
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VenemoMohammadAG: okay. in return:
MohammadAGVenemo, seen that before XD01:10
MohammadAGbrb :p01:11
crashanddieMohammadAG: well, Mr. Abu-Garbeyyeh, it looks like we will meet again! Mwhuwhahahahahahahahha01:11
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* crashanddie goes to open to the person knocking on the front door. "No Mr. Officer, I'm not trying to get an underage boy to agree to meet me."01:12
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crashanddieMohammadAG: is there any chance you could get your name reorganised?01:13
crashanddieMohammadAG: like, put the mohammad in the middle?01:13
crashanddieMohammadAG: having the initials "AMG" would just be cool :)01:14
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crashanddiethat's almost as classic as reading about a cambodian python that is called "C", and has learnt to click a mouse on a computer01:15
MohammadAG51crashanddie, I'd rather use a trademarked name01:15
crashanddieThe joke writes itself right? "Combodian kid uses C and python to send spam"01:15
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MohammadAG51MAG = Massive Action Game (PS3), or that monitors company01:15
noctuleevening all01:16
Venemoevening to you, too01:16
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crashanddieMohammadAG51: my initials, in dutch, simply spell out "salad"01:16
crashanddiewell, that's my trinome01:16
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pexihave you succeeded to share images through the standard (1.2) facebook option?01:17
crashanddiepexi: who are you talking to?01:18
pexianyone interested enough01:18
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* b-man 's initials spell out bam :)01:19
crashanddiepexi: it's usually good form to formulate the question in a way that it indicates who is targeted. "you" is quite vague in a 500+ people channel ;)01:19
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pexisome better free&unlimited easy image sharing suggestions are welcome01:19
pexiflickr free account is really limited with the transfer rate01:20
crashanddiedoesn't it have like 100MB per month on it?01:20
crashanddieThat's why I took the pro account01:20
crashanddieAnd the new interface is awesome01:20
Venemopexi: what is the problem?01:20
pexiyeah, flickr works greatly01:20
pexibut the facebook account linking fails01:21
DrGrovI really managed to fuck things up lol01:21
MohammadAG51facebook is evil, idk why i signed up01:21
pexihad some issues with the facebook chat linking too01:21
crashanddielcuk: I'm quite proud as to how graphic and explicit this channel has become01:21
DrGrovcrashanddie: you are fond of the swearing?01:22
b-manMohammadAG51: you were hypnotized >;)01:22
pupnik_you can't be serious01:22
pexiwell, I'm not interested about ethics discussion now :)01:22
pupnik_three ambiguous 'you's in a row!01:22
crashanddie"So, lcuk created liqbase, texrat has been a long time council member, jaffa united the community, what did you bring to the community, crashanddie?" "Profanity"01:22
MohammadAG51b-man, says the guy who steals traffic lights01:22
b-mani didn't steal it LOL01:23
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DrGrovprofanity is a necessary must in order to keep everyone happy01:23
pupnik_it followed you home?01:23
b-manno, it's a long story01:23
DrGrovi actually have made research into the use of profanity and how it affects persons01:23
pupnik_i've had nights like that01:23
pexiofc facebook works like a charm through web interface but when you want to upload lots of photos ad hoc...01:23
b-mani'll start01:23
crashanddiepupnik_: he woke up, and there was, snug in his arms01:23
MohammadAG51he shot a portal under it01:23
Maceranybody here run opensolaris?01:24
crashanddie*there she was*01:24
b-manme and my dad belong to a sculpture club01:24
crashanddieMacer: I used to, why?01:24
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crashanddieb-man: I heard that one, awesome joke.01:24
Maceri need an auth daemon01:24
MohammadAG51b-man, crashanddie's version of the story is more exciting01:24
Maceror an identd01:24
Maceryou know where i can find information on that?01:24
b-manmy dad's friend who is the head of the club, knows a guy who works at a recycling center01:24
Maceronly thing i could find was some bug from 200501:25
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pexiyeah, and crashes when you try to check new services for sharing :)01:25
crashanddieMacer: /etc/intd.conf01:25
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b-manone day some city workers dumped dsome old lights off01:25
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b-manand the guy in charge told my dad's friend about it01:25
pexiwell, I did use WinMe for a while so this shouldn't be such a big deal01:25
b-manso he got interesten because he thought he could salvage it for scrap01:26
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Macerindetd has a built in auth?01:26
b-manbut he realized that they were made of pot metal (he thought it was aluminum)01:26
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b-manso they were useless for scrap01:27
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b-manso he put them behind his studio hoping to give them away01:27
MohammadAG51b-man, short story: you stole it01:27
crashanddieMacer: well, specific unices have01:27
crashanddieMacer: not necessarily solaris01:27
b-manand one night when me and my dad were there01:28
crashanddieMacer: I know solaris on SPARC had it till version 601:28
Jaffacrashanddie: Nice. URL?01:28
crashanddieJaffa: sorry?01:28
b-mani saw them and asked him if i could have one, he said yes01:28
Macerdent  "%Z%%M% %I%     %E% SMI"01:28
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Jaffacrashanddie: Your quote; or is it self-generated?01:28
b-man /ignore MohammadAG51 xD01:28
crashanddieJaffa: yeah, sadly.01:28
Macerer.. that is in the ident.conf01:28
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b-manso i took it home and refurbished it01:29
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crashanddieJaffa: sorry, I won't highlight you anymore in the future01:29
GAN900crashanddie, I'm sorry, but qwerty12 kicks your ass there.01:29
crashanddieGAN900: stfu, or I'll show the channel how useless you are with IRC by kicking yours :P01:30
crashanddieGAN900: plus, qwerty12 sadly was only a big talker on IRC, and I could profanitise him to oblivion any day of the week. I just chose not to. "With great power comes great responsi-fucking-bility"01:30
MohammadAG51crashanddie, he still kicks your ass though :p01:30
b-manand here's the end result 8D xD
Surfai have certain difficulties to understand you attitude crashanddie01:31
crashanddieb-man: that's an epic picture01:31
crashanddieb-man: you do realise that's going to end up on some there I fixed it blog-kinda website, very, very soon01:32
crashanddieSurfa: eh?01:32
crashanddieSurfa: whatever mate, can't be bothered tonight :)01:32
vldcnstbetter watermark that picture, b-man.01:32
b-mancrashanddie: ok xD01:33
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b-manalright xD01:33
Venemocrashanddie: really? qwerty12 used to be on IRC?01:33
crashanddieVenemo: oh yeah01:33
Venemocrashanddie: I haven't seen him01:33
crashanddieVenemo: he used to be here all the time. The guy was excellent01:33
Venemocrashanddie: what happened?01:33
crashanddieI don't know, he burnt out01:34
Venemocrashanddie: really?01:34
MohammadAG51he doesn't like the channel anymore01:34
crashanddieLast I asked him to swing by, he just sideways said it wasn't the right medium for him01:34
Venemocrashanddie: how so?01:34
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crashanddieAsk him?01:34
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Venemocrashanddie: perhaps I will01:35
Meceok... building again. I hope this one segfaults. Then I might have a solution01:35
GAN900crashanddie, college: girls, class, booze01:35
GAN900(we hope)01:36
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pexireboot is required..01:36
SpeedEvil(11:34:35 PM) SpeedEvil: pexi: flickr01:37
SpeedEvil(11:34:46 PM) SpeedEvil: pexi: err - flickr has a _200_ picture limit on free mode01:37
SpeedEvil(11:34:52 PM) SpeedEvil: pexi: picasa is a gigabyte01:37
SpeedEvil(11:35:16 PM) SpeedEvil: Also - htere is no way to download your original pics in free mode01:37
Surfahow about share on ovi?01:37
Surfano limits there01:37
pexidonno about it01:38
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Surfapossibility to download original pics also01:38
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pexii'm just a fraid of any nokia software01:38
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Surfawhy so?01:38
b-manfreenode *needs* a netsplit filter01:39
pexibecause pc-suite01:39
pexibut gotta check ovi cause they have pressure to make it global brand01:40
Surfapexi, well, share on ovi is kind of different stuff01:40
Venemopexi: pc suite's incompatibility with the N900 shouldn't bother you that much01:40
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pexijust had hard times to get in touch with ovi account managers for developer access01:41
Surfait's possible01:42
Surfabut right now, inviduals should be able to register too01:42
Jaffacrashanddie: Nah, please keep on using my name. Even in profuckery. Makes me feel popular.01:42
JaffaDespite sliding down the karma league table.01:42
pexiI tried to get ovi maps beta dev account01:42
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:42
crashanddieJaffa: cheer up big boy01:42
* SpeedEvil eats a jaffa cake.01:43
pexibut haven't got any response even though we work with nokia01:43
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Jaffacrashanddie: Yeah, I have. Just had an epiphany for an enormous memory leak bug (one reference was the kicker, but we needed one of its root objects for performance)01:43
* Jaffa beds.01:43
Surfapexi, as long as you're having personal contacts it's possible that emails get ignored01:43
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Surfathat's personal experience01:43
pexiSurfa, that's the problem because its a very big corporation01:44
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SpeedEvilSurfa: I think the approved method is to drive a tank through the gates of the HQ?01:44
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pexiSurfa, and actually I have contacts at high level but diff department.. so01:44
Surfahigh level ignore much more emails01:44
Surfalower level contacts you have, better you are off with them01:44
pexiwell.. he said that he can be used for getting the contacts but01:45
pexiand my friends work for the phones01:45
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pexiso it is sometimes frustrating01:46
SpeedEvilAh - my new favourite command.01:47
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SpeedEvilkillall plugin-container01:47
pexibecause low level ppl ignore you if they don't have direct orders or direct gain01:47
pexihigh level.. well, hard to get in touch01:47
Venemois it possible to create a bluetooth PAN between the N900 and a PC?01:50
pexinevertheless, ovi seems pretty nice service for image sharing01:50
Surfapexi, depends on culture01:50
SpeedEvilVenemo: there's instructions on the wiki as I recall.01:51
crashanddielcuk: what was the name of the event you demoed the N900 in london again?01:51
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Surfapexi, finns are especially good when talking to other developers.. they are very willing to keep their supervisors off the loop01:51
VenemoSpeedEvil: thanks! found this:
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pexiSurfa, yeah, when you know someone, that is true01:51
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lcukcrashanddie, onedotzero01:54
Macercrashanddie: i guess i need to build an identd for it huh?01:56
crashanddieMacer: yeah, nothing too hard, just find the source and compile it, then activate it in /etc/inetd.conf01:56
crashanddieMacer: but why do you want inetd?01:56
crashanddieerr, identd?01:56
Macermaking a shell box01:57
Macerusing opensolaris01:57
Macerwell... shell and dns01:57
Macerlow level stuff on my 1GHz artigo01:57
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VenemoSpeedEvil: huh! it seems that there is no "maemo-pan" package in the app manager.01:57
Macerit is a little beast01:57
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Maceridentd ;)01:58
Macersome irc servers are still identd whores01:58
VenemoSpeedEvil: nor Extras, nor -testing, nor -devel, and not from the terminal, either01:58
SpeedEvilVenemo: That's stupid.01:58
SpeedEvilVenemo: However.01:58
ljsdofuynsdfufuhtrying to figure out SIP on the n90001:59
ljsdofuynsdfufuhwhen I try to sign in, why might it take only a few seconds and then say not signed in?01:59
SpeedEvilVenemo: Just install mobilehotspot, and do bittorrent, and you can cook in 20 minutes on the screen.01:59
VenemoSpeedEvil: I truly would like only networking, and not tethering :)01:59
crashanddieljsdofuynsdfufuh: nickname02:00
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* SpeedEvil stabs icd.02:00
crashanddieshorter: thanks02:00
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crashanddieMacer: boycott identd02:01
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crashanddieMacer: not only is it useless, it's a security risk (when badly implemented02:01
shorterhow should i troubleshoot this?02:02
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crashanddieshorter: does you have the same issues on wifi and 3g?02:02
* crashanddie smokes another joint, and hopes his english skills come back02:03
shorterwill im trying on wifi of course first02:03
shorterI just bought a DID from a sip provider02:03
VenemoSpeedEvil: it seems that it is not required to install anything02:03
shortertrying to connect02:03
Macercrashanddie: how so?02:03
Macerjust identing is a security risk? :)02:03
VenemoSpeedEvil: after pairing, I can right-click on the N900's icon in Windows and start a PAN from there02:03
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crashanddieMacer: "hey, here's an idea, let's give away our usernames to anyone who asks for it"02:04
crashanddieMacer: "whooohooo, here's my username, take it, you can have it, woohooo"02:04
crashanddieMacer: "oh crap, now they only need to hack our password, crap"02:04
Macerwell... i only allow keys ;)02:04
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crashanddieon FTP too?02:05
shortergot it02:05
Macerno ftp02:05
Maceronly sftp allowed02:05
crashanddieMacer: anyway, i doubt you require identd02:05
crashanddieMacer: any sane network I've seen just will make you wait 10 seconds for the identd, and then die02:05
VenemoSpeedEvil: it seems that OpenTTD's multiplayer feature works this way! :)02:06
crashanddieMacer: in this age of routers everywhere on the planet, it would've been the death of IRC to enforce identd, and ask people to ALL open their identd port.02:06
Maceri know i dont require it but i would like to have it still.. but i will just try to build one a"d try it out after i get osol installed02:06
Macerbut thank you for the help ;)02:06
ShadowJKidentd only made sense in the age when nobody could afford computers02:07
mortinicrashanddie: pft. identd should be openly truested for auth!02:07
mortiniactually, with the r* stuff, it made a lot of sense, when things were more trustworthy02:07
crashanddieShadowJK: and in a world where MITM was nearly unheard of, nor spoofing.02:08
mortiniif systema trusts my auth, systemb should, too02:08
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luke-jrWhat are the standard wallet-photo sizes in the metric world?02:08
crashanddieno, you're missing a massive link there mortini02:09
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crashanddiesystem-b should only trust you if it trusts system-a, and system-a can vouch for you02:09
Macerwell.. identd is still around02:09
luke-jridentd serves no viable purpose anymore02:09
Maceryou run into irc servers that still enforce it02:09
* mortini sets up a finger server.02:10
mortinifinger me baaaybee!02:10
crashanddieluke-jr: same as the US? 2 by 3"?02:10
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luke-jrcrashanddie: inches aren't metric02:11
mortiniluke-jr: orly? noway02:11
luke-jrI'm under the impression that Europe is strictly metric-only now...02:11
crashanddieluke-jr: 5 by 7.5?02:11
crashanddieI don't know if I'm more insulted that a European can't even multiple 3 by 2.502:12
crashanddiegnah, my enligh fails tonight02:12
* crashanddie weeps02:12
luke-jras if the conversion is that simple :)02:13
luke-jrGoogle says 3in = 7.62cm02:13
luke-jrsomehow I expect people have something more metric-like for sizes?02:13
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crashanddieluke-jr: so I was 1mm off? Yeah, that'll make a difference.02:15
crashanddiesorry, 1.2mm :P02:15
crashanddieI thought we were talking about pictures, not nanoscale engineering :D02:15
luke-jrbut seriously? Europe uses inches for photos?02:16
crashanddiewell, we use dots per inch for resolution02:16
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crashanddieluke-jr: but no, print sizes are calculated in cm02:18
ShadowJK10*15 cm02:19
anisfarhanahello guys02:19
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luke-jrShadowJK: how about wallet-size?02:19
anisfarhanaIs there any user named florian here ?02:19
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crashanddieanisfarhana: there's 500+ people in here02:20
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anisfarhanacrashanddie: oh sorry , just try my luck here :/02:20
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crashanddieluke-jr: you do realise you can get about any size, right?02:21
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shorterokay I bought a DID, now how do I make calls out?02:25
crashanddieconnect, dial, press big green button.02:25
luke-jrcrashanddie: 2.93292" x 1.46646"?02:26
crashanddieluke-jr: for example, how about you explain what you're trying to do?02:26
shorterwell it stands for direct inward dialing?02:26
luke-jrcrashanddie: I want wallet-size photos measured in tonal meters02:26
shorterdoes DID allow for outbound calls?02:26
luke-jrshorter: depends on your service02:26
shorterI just bought some from voip.ms02:26
luke-jra DID by itself neither allows inbound nor outbound02:26
luke-jrusually you get a DID in addition to at least inbound service02:27
crashanddieluke-jr: take wallet, measure, get result?02:27
shorterI would like to be able to call people on the same number they use to call me02:27
luke-jrcrashanddie: 2.93292" x 1.46646" is exactly 1/2 tonal meter by 1/4 tonal meter02:28
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luke-jrshorter: you don't call people on numbers, you call them on channels and send them some arbitrary caller ID02:29
crashanddieluke-jr: wtf is a tonal meter?02:29
luke-jrshorter: it sounds to me like you want a simple end-user VoIP service02:29
shorterwell I just spent 25 on this one02:30
shortercan you explain a bit more?02:30
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crashanddieyou just got fucked02:30
shorterwell they only allow that much as a downpayment02:30
shorteranyway, what is this methodology of calling them?02:31
luke-jrcrashanddie: see page 30 of
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luke-jrshorter: why don't you link the service you bought?02:31
shortergot a local DID02:31
shorterwhich is the only thing on there I saw could be bought02:32
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shorterluke-jr, any ideas?02:36
crashanddieluke-jr: you lost me mate02:36
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luke-jrshorter: so you got the "Unlimited channels DID number"?02:38
shorteryeah, I think that's the default02:38
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shorterthe per minute one02:38
luke-jryou can probably just register it on your N900 and use it like a phone02:38
shortergot a local one and tested by receiving  an incoming call from a cell02:38
shorterI did02:39
shorterbut how do I make outbound calls?02:39
shorterthere is no ring  or anything02:39
luke-jryou dial02:39
shorteroh, well it doesn't ring  and it says no answer02:39
shorterso DIDs aren't just for incoming calls?02:39
luke-jryou selected SIP where it defaults to Cellular?02:39
shorterthey're for outgoing too?02:39
luke-jrDIDs are just a number02:39
shorterso how do I know if this offers outbound02:40 is offering you minutes in both directions, at a per minute rate02:40
luke-jr" USA 48 @ 1.05¢ per minute ($0.0105)"02:40
shorterokay i setup something wrong then though02:40
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shorterit doesn't ring or anything and says no answer after a bit02:41
luke-jrcrashanddie: you read page 30?02:42
crashanddieno, have a headache now, because of you02:42
Mace_N900tmob has me about to choke someone out02:44
shorterwha'd they do to you?02:45
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shorter"Do you accept predictive dialer call  center traffic? (Dialer/Telemarketing)   We do not accept dialer traffic at this time. "02:48
shorterthat was in their FAQ luke-jr02:48
shorterdoes that mean no outbound?02:48
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pexithis ovi sharing seems to be pretty nice02:49
luke-jrthat means no setting up a computer that dials random numbers02:49
crashanddieshorter: no, it means you can't use automated dialing02:49
luke-jrand transfers them to humans when someone answers02:49
pexiprivate unlimited free albums with downloan library option02:49
shorterhmm, I wonder why it doesn't ring or work on outbound02:50
luke-jryou probably put the wrong password or something02:50
shorterwell i get in bound02:50
shortertested that02:50
luke-jrshorter: install a softphone to troubleshoot02:51
luke-jr(on your desktop)02:51
Venemogood evening, everyone03:00
VenemoI'm going to sleep now03:00
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shorterwasn't expecting that... twas the router03:01
shorterneighbor's connection works for outbound [-_o]03:01
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crashanddieso my first question "does it work the same on wifi and 3g" would have solved your problem right away.03:15
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DocScrutinizer>>• Programmable digital audio effects processing for playback (3-D, bass, treble, midrange, EQ, de-emphasis)<<  from
DocScrutinizerthis is a hardware property of N900 audio codec chip - I wonder why nobody created a decent equalizer for N900 yet03:17
ShadowJKI wonder if there's a catch :-)03:18
ShadowJKLike with video codecs on dsp03:18
DocScrutinizeror just nag Nokians the 'short way'?03:18
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DocScrutinizerfirst of all I guess we should find out about which of the audio driver things are OS, and why is responsible author03:19
DocScrutinizeramixer doesn't have any link to any form of bass/treble or whatever EQ03:20
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I just wonder where to start the bitching ;-D03:20
DocScrutinizeras I *hate* tmo03:21
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ShadowJKI'm just skeptical about TI's promises :-)03:21
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DocScrutinizerlemme scrutinize the ds a lil bit longer03:22
ShadowJKLike take the DSP for example. It's not really possible to create new video codecs on it03:22
DocScrutinizerttyl, ~10min03:22
ShadowJKBecause the actual building blocks for video codecs are undocumented :-)03:22
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yeah, as the DSP isn't really well documented, or what are you thinking of?03:23
ShadowJKConsider VP8, ffmpeg needed only 1400 lines of code to implement it (I heard it was 100k lines in vp8 reference implementation?), thanks to every codec sharing basic building blocks which ffmpeg already had03:24
ShadowJKEven though the step from h264 to vp8 is a small one, it'd be like a total rewrite for the dsp..03:25
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: what's your point? (and what's VP8?)03:25
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, oh, google's new "patent free" video codec03:25
Robot101ShadowJK: although it doesn't use a lot of the building blocks... :/03:25
ShadowJKRobot101, well they can't :-)03:25
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Robot101it's not patent free, it's a zero-fee zero-revenue patent pool03:25
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, point is TI says you can do 720p video, in practice you can't :P03:26
Robot101as in, you have to check your video codec IP revenue at the door to use VP803:26
Robot101that's not the same as patent free :)03:26
DocScrutinizerok, but that isn't an axiom for aic3403:26
Robot101as the MPEG-LA and Apple are keen to point out :)03:26
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ShadowJKRobot101, I'm sure mpeg-la would want to argue that vp8 is mostly a modified h264 anyway03:27
ShadowJKAnd aren't they gathering a patent pool for vp8 already? :)03:27
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Robot101yup, and I look forward to Google seeing them in court03:27
ShadowJKIt happened to VC-1, didn't it? And VC-1 is much bigger deviation from h264 than the 1400 line vp8 ;p03:28
Robot101yeah but Google aren't trying to extract any video patent IP revenue03:28
Robot101they are trying to make it 0 cost03:28
Robot101microsoft was03:28
Robot101(trying to license VC-1)03:28
Robot101its like selling a house with somebody who's living in it, you get two ppl inside who are really confused and angry03:29
Robot101google just want to demolish the house03:29
Robot101but, they have acquired video codec IP with On203:29
Robot101so they have counter-claims03:29
Robot101so it'll be fun03:29
Robot101stand *well* back03:29
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skynetsis there a way to autofocus the camera while taking a video03:30
DocScrutinizerpage 38:03:30
skynetsis there an auto focus app03:30
DocScrutinizerThe DAC channel consists of optional filters for de-emphasis and bass, treble, midrange level adjustment,03:30
skynetsfor the video camera03:30
DocScrutinizerspeaker equalization, and 3-D effects processing. The de-emphasis function is implemented by a programmable03:30
ShadowJKNot that I know of, there's a manual focus app though03:30
DocScrutinizerdigital filter block with fully programmable coefficients (see page 1, registers 21–26 for left channel, page 1,03:30
ShadowJKIt makes the volume buttons focus instead of zoom03:31
ShadowJKthe UI was dreadful and unpredictable, I hated it03:31
DocScrutinizeryeah, but it kinda worked03:31
ShadowJKBut I guess it's pretty damn impossible to make a tolerable UI ontop of another program03:32
DocScrutinizeralso enables video light03:32
ShadowJKand can disable privacy light03:32
DocScrutinizerthat's the issue, at least with camera-UI03:32
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ShadowJKI don't know if there's anything preventing a camera-ui replacement from sending autofocus request to v4l..03:33
ShadowJKthat's be cool03:33
SpeedEvilI'm not sure the v4l layer does that.03:33
* SpeedEvil wonders03:34
ShadowJKI assumed it did, since I was under the impression that the hw could do autofocus03:34
DocScrutinizerThe coefficients for this filter implement a variety of sound effects, with bass boost or treble boost being the most03:34
ShadowJKso you wouldn't have to do it in software03:34
DocScrutinizercommonly used in portable audio applications. The default N and D coefficients in the part are given in Table 503:34
DocScrutinizerand implement a shelving filter with 0-dB gain from dc to approximately 150 Hz, at which point it rolls off to a03:34
DocScrutinizer3-dB attenuation for higher-frequency signals, thus giving a 3-dB boost to signals below 150 Hz. The N and D03:34
DocScrutinizercoefficients are represented by 16-bit, 2s-complement numbers with values ranging from –32,768 to 32,767.03:34
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I'm not sure what part in the chain autofocus is pulled out. It could be several places.03:35
DocScrutinizerso if anybody feels temped to have a closer look into that - it's on page38 of above linked document03:35
SpeedEvilShadowJK: as I understand it, the camera can't - it's too dumb. The image processor block - IVA? I forget the name - in the SoC can do it.03:35
SpeedEvilShadowJK: But I don't know if it is smart enough to directly control the autofocus over I2C03:36
ShadowJKWell elements of IVA would be useful for determining the sharpness of the image atleast03:36
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: Or if it requires something on the kernel side to read current sharpness - or sharpness over an area - and poke the focus03:37
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I'd guess last one03:37
DocScrutinizeras you would want to define AF hotspot etc03:38
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, the kernel people will murder you if you suggest calculating brightness inside the kernel :)03:38
SpeedEvilOr it could be just camera-ui looks at the image, and frobs the focus directly03:38
DocScrutinizerand also Focus is a DAC driven over I2C03:38
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Indeed - and sometimes the kernel people need to be poked with a sharp stick.03:38
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: yeah - the ad* part03:38
ShadowJKnah, heavy calculations don't belong in kernel03:38
DocScrutinizermhm, the 250mA ADC03:38
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I wasn't meaning sharpness03:39
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: however - there's an argument for the kernel driver for the IVA bit knowing how to poke the sharpness into the focus control automagicall03:39
SpeedEvilas that is latency critical for optimal focus.03:39
DocScrutinizerI bet there's building blocks in SoC cam interface/buffer hardware, but you need a driver to set registers to define focus window, read out result and send to ADC, etc03:40
SpeedEvilAnd you really actually do care about 10ms latency in that case.03:40
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ShadowJKIt'd also make the kernel a client of dspbridge for accessing iva..03:40
ShadowJKI bet it'd be quite messy :-)03:40
SpeedEvilyeah. In practice, accepting the slower focus may be the easier way03:41
ShadowJKYou're limited by framerate anyway..03:41
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DocScrutinizersee, we already got a blob for video/still pict processing, as e.g. the frontcam needed quite some love from this driver to put it into semi-usable state03:42
SpeedEvilShadowJK: sure.03:42
SpeedEvilIt's not that.03:43
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SpeedEvilThe SNR spec for the frontcam was _NOWHERE_ near close to being met with the previous firmware03:43
SpeedEvilSo something was wrong in setup03:43
DocScrutinizerand I bet this driver has knowledhe how to talk to some probably small DSP inside vam interface of SoC, to get such info like white bal, focus, brightness etc03:43
ShadowJKI wasn't talking about the front cam at any point whatsoever :-)03:43
SpeedEvilThe front cam and the back cam are identical processing03:43
SpeedEvilthey're even hooked to the same bus03:44
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: for that topic there's no diff tween front & main cam03:44
DocScrutinizerthey go over a muxer03:44
SpeedEvilThe blob AIUI is a seperate DSP blocks program.03:44
GAN900The iPhone's display is really unbelievable.03:45
SpeedEvilWhich sets up stuff like pincushion and vignetting correction, as well as timing03:45
DocScrutinizerno idea about it. Anyway I bet we got better cards than that, for audio EQ03:45
GAN900I really need one in the N903:45
ShadowJKGAN900, the new one?03:45
ShadowJKhm wait, you want capacitive now? ;p03:46
DocScrutinizerwhat can be so unbelievable?03:46
* SpeedEvil ponders a n900 with a .35" screen, and 3 keys.03:46
GAN900ShadowJK, nah, just 960x640 IPS03:47
SpeedEvil(I do actually want a keyfob linux box)03:47
GAN900DocScrutinizer, 320 someodd ppi and IPS03:47
ShadowJKGAN900, hey if the choice was between the current 3.5" 800x480, 3.5" 960x640 and say 5" 800x480, what would you pick? :-)03:48
DocScrutinizerGAN900: hmm03:48
GAN900ShadowJK, 3.5"03:48
DocScrutinizer5" obviously03:48
konfoo5" 800x480, ofcourse03:48
GAN900ShadowJK, my answer is almost always PPI03:48
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konfooillegible ppi03:49
ShadowJKI never thought I'd see it, but N900 PPI is at the limit of my seeing :-)03:49
_Elbachacospake spanish?03:49
_ElbachacoBe kept silent stupids go to the shit foreign homosexuals take his mothers03:49
konfoono comprendo03:49
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GAN900konfoo, yeah . . . resolution independence :rolleyes:03:49
konfoogan900: haha yes the holy grail eh03:50
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GAN900ShadowJK, iPhone 4 manages to actually be that for me03:50
_Elbachaco[konfoo] eres latino?03:50
lcukis the iphone res full complete res or like android oled with half res gb?03:50
GAN900konfoo, I read a lot of ebooks.03:50
GAN900lcuk, IPS03:50
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konfoogan900: so do i, but not on a mobile phone..03:50
ShadowJKIt's very rare that I see actual pixels on N900.. on N8x0 they were clearly visible for me though03:50
ShadowJKMaybe I need to get glasses now :/03:50
lcukGAN900, i made a slight breakthrough03:50
_ElbachacoYou speak Spanish03:50
GAN900konfoo, I've read dozens of books on my N90003:50
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GAN900Hundreds between my 770 and N80p03:51
DocScrutinizer_Elbachaco: nope, this is an English channel03:51
SpeedEvilMe too GAN900.03:51
* SpeedEvil hugs RST38h.03:51
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lcukGAN900, even03:51
_ElbachacoBe kept silent stupids go to the shit foreign homosexuals take his mothers03:51
GAN900<3 FBReader03:51
ShadowJKhm, is N900 screen IPS or what03:51
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konfooelbachaco: yo quiero?03:51
GAN900and, thanks, RST38h for stepping up and making it usable. :)03:51
GAN900ShadowJK, dunno03:52
_Elbachaco[killefiz] 03:52
_Elbachaco[killefiz] 03:52
_Elbachaco[killefiz] 03:52
_Elbachaco[killefiz] 03:52
_Elbachaco[killefiz] 03:52
_Elbachaco[killefiz] 03:52
* konfoo rolls eyes03:52
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ShadowJK"IPS has since been superseded by S-IPS (Super-IPS, Hitachi Ltd. in 1998)"03:52
SpeedEvilA kinetic book reader would look much cooler.03:52
SpeedEvilI'm not sure it would actually be better though03:52
konfookillefiz, is that some newfangled script that's supposed to own us all03:52
lcukSpeedEvil, see that vid i just pasted :P03:52
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SpeedEvillcuk: I can't watch video ATM.03:53
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* SpeedEvil is making flapjacks.03:53
GAN900ShadowJK, yeah, nobody actually uses IPS anymore03:53
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GAN900So generally "IPS" means "S-IPS"03:54
lcukapi?  s-ips?03:54
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Izzehis there youtube tabs on TMO?04:06
Izzehas in <youtube>link</youtube> to make youtube vid in post04:07
* SpeedEvil ponders moving all of TMO over to youtube comment systems.04:07
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: page38, and page90,91,92 - seems it's time for I2Ctools once again. Anybody good in mathematical definition of filters?04:08
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: there seems to be no catch so far04:09
SpeedEvilof what?04:10
DocScrutinizerexcept of course if Nokia decided just another time to occupy user resources for system purposes, leaving the user with the need to implement a replacement04:11
ShadowJKif I could immediately say what these mathematical definitions of filters were I'd try to make a bass-reduce one :)04:11
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: EQ in aic34 audio codec04:11
SpeedEvilWhat is it - a FIR filter?04:12
DocScrutinizerwe got a pretty usable set of freely programmable filters there04:12
DocScrutinizererr, yes AIUI04:12
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SpeedEvilSo there is absolutely no point in the expensive battery consuming filter in the speaker line?04:12
* SpeedEvil sighs at sw people with no hw clue.04:13
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ShadowJKand the generic compress filter or whatever "Music enhancement" is04:16
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: tell that to Nokia, so they might understand they miss an opportunity by not sending a dozen headhunters after me04:16
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: It makes everything sound like WHAM.04:17
DocScrutinizerIt's the task where I perform best - telling sw guys about hw properties and how to put them to purpose04:18
mortiniWake me up, before you go go?04:18
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DocScrutinizerwake me up before I get hungry04:18
ShadowJKI'm guessing they just have list of specs to make04:19
mortini <- a bit ridiculus now that i see it.04:19
ShadowJKand get shot down if someone even suggests making an extra feature04:19
ShadowJKbe it any kind of equalizer04:19
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah04:19
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: 'how cheaply can we implement this list of features'04:19
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yep, and those lists probably done by the dudes with no clue about either particular hw nor decent sw architecture04:19
* DocScrutinizer mumbles "yeah - >>our next device needs an OLED<<"04:20
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SpeedEvilI saw OLED lighting panels for sale.04:21
SpeedEvil20lm/W though - and stupidly expensive - and 10000 hours to 50% brightness04:21
ShadowJKwhy would you use oled lighting panels...04:22
ShadowJKthat seems... silly04:22
DocScrutinizerwhen I asked, there was no clue about whether this OLED is an idicator LED, an array (which size) to display enriched info during suspend, a OLED screen, or whatever. BUT it MUST BE OLED04:22
SpeedEvilShadowJK: In principle, it's not a stupid idea - it has benefits over LED - it's an inherently flat diffused panel04:23
SpeedEvilShadowJK: But extremely expensive ATM. And stupid life.04:24
DocScrutinizeryeah, but you *should* have an idea about what it will become in the end, at least a fuzzy little idea of it. Just saying "we need OLED (that looks nice as a buzzword on product spec)" - that's utterly stupid alas I've seen exactly that in a company we both know04:25
ShadowJKI'm not sure diffused is an inherent property :)04:26
SpeedEvilShadowJK: It is.04:26
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Well - for lighting OLEDs.04:26
* ShadowJK has an mp3 player with oled display, appart from the brightness and contrast it looks about the same as normal LCD/TFT, with big black borders around each pixel :-)04:26
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* DocScrutinizer is away. If someone wants to mess around with filter coefficients N0..N5,D0..D5 then ping me04:28
SpeedEvilShadowJK: In that the individual OLED elements emit evenly over the area they are in. You can't make a 1m*1m 1 'pixel' conventional LED.04:28
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil:  page 38, page 90..9204:29
SpeedEvilShadowJK: For conventional LEDs, you need lots of LEDs, and it's a compromise between optical complexity, thickness, and number of LEDs.04:29
ShadowJKor one powerled..04:29
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Sure.04:30
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: with diffusor04:30
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: now show me an optical design that illuminates a 1m*1m panel evenly from a point light source and is 1cm thick.04:30
SpeedEvilIt's easy if you can accept a 4m thick panel. :)04:31
ShadowJKSOrry, I thought the objective was to get light :)04:31
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* SpeedEvil wishes he had a nice lab. 04:32
SpeedEvilI want to try to make a 3D virtual sky.04:32
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shorteris it still necessary to run gpsjinni along other apps (like maps) to improve satellite reception?04:40
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SpeedEvilsouldn't be04:43
ShadowJKAllegedly not, but I haven't tried it04:43
ShadowJKActually I haven't started maps at all after installing 1.2 :/04:43
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shorterwell I'm using gps without 3g for a few more days04:46
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Jef91howdy, I see the image download link of meego for the n900 - anyone know if you can dual boot it with maemo?04:49
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MohammadAG51Jef91, if you're not a developer i really can't see why you need to install it04:53
MohammadAG51and please, #meego :)04:53
Jef91oh good point, I wanna try that04:53
Jef91I just want to play with it04:56
Jef91and if I can do it without wiping out maemo I'd do it04:56
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shorteryeah, me too04:56
MohammadAG51Jef91, the way i hear it, the image is 500MB+, so don't expect it to be on the ubifs partition04:57
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ShadowJKWhen I was without internet connectivity I used to run gpsjinni alot so that I had a fix ready for when I used the camera or navigation04:59
shorterShadowJK, does the reason for doing that still stand if one is without service?05:01
shorteroh, you meana you kept gpsjinni running all of the time just in case05:01
shorterthat's smart05:01
ShadowJKNormally I have xchat running all the time, online on IRC. battery would last about a day05:02
ShadowJKwhen offline the gpsjinni power consumption was only slightly higher.. so it worked out for me05:02
shorterwhat do you think of pidgin vs that?05:02
shorteror can't the maemo pidgin run irc05:02
shorterhow can you see battery consumption for just one app?05:02
ShadowJKYou can't05:03
ShadowJKYou add or remove apps and compare05:03
shorterokay, that's what I thought05:03
shorterhow do you manage battery consumption in general then?05:03
shorterfrom my subjective evidence, installing apps takes way more battery than anything else05:04
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ShadowJKPower consumption during downloading over 3g can be somewhere around 600-1000mA, during installation this drops to 300-500mA. So in total you can spend, I guess, 2 hours looking at the progress bars.05:06
ShadowJK(before battery runs out)05:06
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mvahi there!06:14
mvai'm testing voice calls via jabber, and it working, since 1.2, but opponents doesn't hear me (but if i calling echo bot (asterisk and telepathy) — it hears me).06:16
mvaanybody have any ideas, how it can be? :)06:17
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LiraNunaany Qt devs here?06:21
LiraNunaManoftheSea, not everyone are native english speaker, I doubt you're having trouble understanding what he says06:23
luke-jrmva: maybe I'm just deaf06:25
luke-jror had the volume too low06:25
mvamajik doesn't hear me too06:26
mvaManoftheSea, for example, luke-jr ;)06:26
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luke-jrManoftheSea: it's not a game without opponents!06:28
rodaldhi, does anyone knows if its posible to eliminate the interference caused by the internet connection on the n900?06:31
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luke-jrrodald: there is no interference :)06:37
rodaldhow comes mine does cause interference?06:37
luke-jrit couldn't, or FCC wouldn't approve06:38
rodaldright now im infrot of a tv and it makes sounds and disrupts the image06:38
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ManoftheSeawhat interference?06:42
ManoftheSeaoh, that's GSM...06:43
ManoftheSeafrom the internet connection?06:43
ManoftheSeaMy cell phone makes speakers buzz in a distinctive pattern.06:43
ManoftheSeaalso, luke-jr, it's a radiative device, it CAN cause interference.06:43
rodaldyes thats what i am talking about06:43
mvaluke-jr, lol06:44
ManoftheSeathe best way is to move it a couple feet away06:44
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mvaluke-jr, when i call myself with psi from anoter jid (btw, voice only) — i hear myself.06:44
shorter I followed this guide and it keeps asking for user/pass - any ideas?06:45
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mvaluke-jr, but when i call myself from n900 to Psi — i hear not.06:45
ManoftheSeashorter: did you set up a user/pass?06:45
rodaldyeah but i work at a call center and it realy sucks not been able to use my device06:45
shorterit doesn't require one06:46
ManoftheSeathen no, I have no ideas.06:46
rodaldit stoped for a few days but then it came back06:46
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hallynconnecting with vncviewer to a tightvnc server.  getting all caps (except when i type two keys really fast, the second is lower-case).07:10
hallyni've only seen one report of that online with no confirmation.  anyone else seen that?07:10
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shorteropenvpn applet on n900 requires a configuration file - is there an easy way to make one?07:11
shorterer generate?07:11
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shorter some shit renamed my device to something retarded, as per this thread07:19
shorterno big deal I guess, but it is unsettling07:19
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shorterI'm getting socket.connection failed on openvpn07:35
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user___i can't seem to get media player to detect songs on external drive07:47
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user___is there a .conf for media player so i can tell it where to scan for media?07:48
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radiochickenwaxHi does anyone out there know if GSM is working in debian or ubuntu for n900?08:01
shorteranyone have a config file for their n900 openvpn client they can lend me?08:06
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shorterwhere does openvpn applet put logs?08:16
shorterI need to trouble shoot this08:16
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Macerlooks like i will go with fbsd808:30
shorterfor waht08:35
Macera shell and dns box using my artigo08:35
Macerit is a 1GHz C708:36
Macerreal small 10W box... strong for its size though08:36
Macerim watching the smartest guys in the room08:37
Maceri love this movie08:37
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RST38hmoo all09:03
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LiraNunais there a way to know if the phone s currently on EDGE?09:51
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kerioas opposed to 3G or as opposed to gprs?09:53
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LiraNunaI want to determine fast/slow connection09:56
keriofast as in hspa or fast as in edge?09:56
LiraNunafast as in >5KB/s09:57
kerio gsm/3g/dual10:00
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LiraNunanot config10:00
LiraNuna"Dual" can still mean '2.5G connection'10:00
LiraNunaI want to switch to 'low bandwidth mode' in my app in case user's on edge10:01
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kerioLiraNuna: stupid idea - a speed test10:05
kerioand/or let the user pick10:05
LiraNunaletting the user pick is fine10:06
LiraNunabut I want an auto mode10:06
LiraNuna<LiraNuna> I want to switch to 'low bandwidth mode' in my app in case user's on edge10:06
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keriomake a speed test10:06
keriomy 3g connection sucks balls sometimes, so i'd appreciate low-bandwidth mode there10:06
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LiraNunakerio, I'm aiming at fast startup time10:10
LiraNunaspeed test would mean wait period10:10
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ljrn900ok. this kb is downright terrible10:34
keriowhat kb?10:37
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ljrn900it makes the n810 look good10:37
kerioi would've liked the space more centered, yeah10:37
kerioor you mean the on-screen keyboard?10:38
ljrn900i mean the hw keys10:38
ljrn900dont even see an osk10:38
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arachnisti find the hw keyboard quite comfortable10:39
arachnistway better than motorola droid/milestone, which is just too flat10:40
ljrn900its a pain10:40
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LiraNuna<ljrn900> it makes the n810 look good10:47
LiraNunawhat's wrong about the N810's keyboard?10:47
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TermanaLiraNuna, I have an n810. At first I liked it. And then I didn't. The keys are small and not responsive enough (as in they don't make a good click, down and up)10:56
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AStormTermana, meh10:58
AStormkeys are good enough10:58
LiraNunayeah, feels good to me10:59
AStormmy gripe is the sucky buggy software10:59
AStormwith no updates forthcoming10:59
LiraNunaand closed components :(10:59
AStormthose have been reverse engineered mostly11:00
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LiraNunaAStorm, mostly?11:00
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LiraNunaall I know about is wifi becoming GPL11:01
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keriois there a way to access the IR port with, say, minicom?11:53
keriowhat's the device file?11:53
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: mva: rodald: far end RX mute usually caused by NAT or firewall issues. || Interference? Don't tell me now there's GSM buzz on N900 o.O  I doubt we'll find a buzzfix for this device ->
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wazdand they've moved deadline again :)11:58
keriocan i use minicom with /dev/lirc0?11:58
DocScrutinizerkerio: IR is TX only (CIR aka customer IR). *NO* IrDA11:58
keriooh :(11:59
keriowhy is that?11:59
DocScrutinizerdunno. Technically because there's only an IR-LED12:00
arachnistspeaking of the CIR12:00
arachnistis there any tv-remote app for n900?12:00
kerioarachnist: qtirreco12:00
keriothe qt version is simpler to install and easier to use12:00
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kerioonly supports the n900 though12:00
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pupnik_"The fact that others may agree with my opinion is pure coincidence. I do not have the authority to speak on behalf of my client nor for myself when my wife is present."  nice12:01
arachnist"nor for myself when my wife is present.", lol12:02
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kerioDocScrutinizer: what if i want to just manually send data through the IR?12:04
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DocScrutinizerkerio: then you send data.12:05
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kerioyeah but how?12:06
keriosending data to /dev/lirc0?12:06
DocScrutinizerkerio: never tried, but yes probably12:06
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infobotOkay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer)12:07
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DocScrutinizerkerio: hw level it's a GPIO on SoC that directly switches on and off the IR LED. This GPIO also can be controlled my a hw counter/divider/PWM so you can generate several fixed frequency square wave patterns without cpu sw control overhead12:11
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infobotOkay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer)12:20
pupnik_that design by community page is the most damning piece of evidence against design-by-community12:22
alteregoYou know, I think I understand now why iPhone and Android have had such an imact, and why Nokia are losing traction.12:23
pupnik_any one answer is wrong12:23
alteregoIt's all about shiny isn't it. When you buy something you want it to be the newest and the best. Nokia don't have the new shiney appeal, the just churn out extremely capable devices like water.12:24
keriohaha wtf dolby surround sound12:24
alteregoApple are all about shiney, everything they do is a reinvention of an already available technology or concept.12:24
alteregoAnd Android are the new kid on the block. Which is not Apple ..12:25
kerioalterego: tbh, they * do* tend to reinvent it in a way that's incredibly easy to use12:25
alteregokerio: you mean stupid.12:25
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alteregoThey dumb things down, which works.12:25
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keriowell, yeah12:25
alteregoBut not for everyone, not even a majority of everyone.12:26
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alteregoSo, I'm thinking, MeeGo is Nokias new shiny. they're trying to reinvent Symbian, which will take a lot of work. As much as I dislike coding for Symbian, Nokias Series 60 is the most capable mobile OS on the market.12:27
kerionah, i'm pretty sure that the majority of everyone *is* stupid12:27
pupnik_ ?12:28
alteregoBut it only has 2/5 of the smart phone market, that's a fucking joke.12:28
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pupnik_it's not so surprising12:29
alteregootoh, I'm not sure I'd call iOS or even Android that smart ..12:30
alteregoUnless we want to stick Symbian in the Super smart superlative.12:30
pupnik_an interesting phenomenon here is that of capturing mindshare as a new market entrant, by only offering one product instead of a palette of many12:30
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kerioalterego: i didn't find symbian to be that smart, btw12:31
alteregokerio: it's extremly smart, just really slow, not as pretty as other mobile OS' and it's API is horrible imo.12:31
pupnik_i am just getting used to it now - the menu-based UX is what feels old12:31
alteregoSymbian is open, but it feels closed because the APIs are such a friggin' PITA12:32
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kerioi probably have the wrong impression here - the only symbian device i actually used was my 6120c12:33
alteregoBut as an OS, it's complete, proper multitasking, copy & paste, everything you'd expect from a full computer OS for phones.12:33
kerioi found it very fast, but not *that* smart12:33
alteregoThat isn't it's weakness, it's weakness is the series 60 UI sucking balls and the API12:33
pupnik_alterego: what would you be looking at if you were leaving symbian work?12:33
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pupnik_yeah say you couldn't develop for symbian anymore12:34
alteregoMeeGo, obviously :)12:35
alteregoNokia Qt SDK changes everything of course.12:35
alteregoSymbian no longer has to be a PITA to code for.12:35
alteregoAnd you've got write once.12:35
keriowell, let's say one and a half12:36
keriobecause there *are* differences between different devices you have to account for12:36
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alteregokerio: quoting the Man, "non-issue" just don't codee it that way :P12:36
kerioeven with proper coding, i still say 1.1 times as a best case scenario12:37
alteregoSeriously though, Qt are doing a great job wrapping up their mobility APIs for geolocation etc.12:37
alteregoSymbians biggest issue ahead of it is the UI. They need to completely rewrite it.12:38
kerioeven with the best UI in the world, i'm not moving away from maemo12:38
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alteregoScrap Series 60 and do something new. Though, tbh, that's a mamoth task, which will break everything. Also, Symbian is supposed to replace S40 which requires no graphical acceleration.12:40
alteregoAnyhow, I just thought I'd microblog :)12:40
alteregoI'm pretty annoyed at the MeeGo UI, if there's one thing I love about maemo, it's the status area ..12:41
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pupnik_alterego: let's hope that that remains an option at least12:42
alteregoI look at it and I get that feeling of power coming from the device. I look at the MeeGo UX and I think, why has Android and iPhones got this really ugly useless thin crappy bar at the top?12:42
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Venemoalterego: worst case, you just replace the mobile UX with the tablet UX, which is just pure awesomeness12:42
alteregoVenemo: and no status area :P We should work on a MeeGo molbile  UX ....12:42
alteregoPort what we have to Qt, and make the improvements we desire.12:43
Venemoalterego: well, we haven't seen that much... honestly, I dunno whether there will be a status area or not12:43
alteregoFor sure, Harmattan will be a lot more Maemo than MeeGo, and the SDK should be just around the corner.12:44
alteregoSo we'll no soon enough.12:44
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infobothmm... know is Any fool can know, the point is to understand. - Albert Einstein12:45
Venemoalterego: we don't even know what MeeGo's desktop will be like12:45
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Venemoalterego: will there be shortcuts/widgets/contacts like in Maemo? Or multiple desktops?12:46
Venemoalterego: noone knows, and those who do, don't tell12:46
alteregoI might start my own company, MeeGo customizations for large corporations. I could build locked down images for employees or something12:46
Venemoalterego: another worst case scenario: let's port Hildon to MeeGo :)12:47
alteregoOr maybe apply to work for some Operator. Work on UI customisation of MeeGo for them.12:47
alteregoHildon should be destroyed :P12:47
alteregoWell, some of it.12:47
Venemoalterego: I will miss it... I just don't think we will get all the features we like in Hildon12:48
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alteregoGuten morgan12:48
lardmanwie geht's?12:48
lardmananyone here used PythonQT before?12:49
alteregoGute danke, und du?12:49
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alteregolardman: I use PySide, if that applicable ...12:49
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lardmanhmm, probably not12:50
lardmanI want to be able to use python as a scripting language within a C++/Qt app12:50
alteregoOkay, anyhow, I need to shower.12:50
lardmancheers anyway12:50
alteregolardman: pretty possible12:50
alteregoAnd yes, you should be able to move  QObjects between environments relatively easily.12:51
alteregoYou should probably look more into QtScript though :P12:51
lardmanthat's Javascript-style stuff isn't it?12:51
alteregoYeah, ECMA12:51
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lardmanI'd prefer Python, as it has lots of stuff already written that can be pulled in - will explain when you get back (assuming I'm not in the shower by that point!)12:52
mikhasscripting language within an app? I dont think python is a good choice. consider QtScript or LUA ...12:53
keriopython is great!12:54
mikhaspython envs are a pain to use, from a plugin point of view12:54
lardmanI want people to be able to write plugins for mBarcode using Python12:54
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mikhasyou are ready for a world of pain, I hope12:54
Venemowhy Python?12:54
lardmanwell Python has lots of pre-written libs/packages available12:54
mikhaswe do that with Glom, and everytime python upgrades everything breaks12:54
lardmaneffectively the only link will be for the C++ plugin manager to pass the barcode data + a window onto which to draw to the Python plugin, then it can do what it wants12:55
lardmanmikhas: yeah, I was worried about that12:55
mikhasevery user has a different python env, and getting the *correct* python path, package sites etc (consider multiple python installations on the same box) is all borken and non-standardized12:56
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keriowell, maemo is pretty "standard" from that point of view12:56
keriothere's only one user12:56
lardmanah, but this is only for Maemo12:56
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lardmanI guess the other option is to pass data out of the app via DBus and let whomever capture and handle it13:00
lardmanbut that seems more messy ;)13:00
lardmanin idea if not implementation13:00
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keriolardman: mbarcode is seriously awesome13:04
lardmanthanks, still needs some improvements though13:05
lardmanlike better working plugins13:05
lardmanand I need to get that "Open Image" button plumbed into the gst pipeline too13:05
lardmanah, speaking of showers, bbiab13:06
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alteregoSo mBarcode is Qt/C++?13:16
alteregoI actually think a barcode dbus service is a great idea.13:17
* lbt is getting pissed off at the maemo testing process13:17
alteregolbt: what specifically? :)13:18
lbtyet another "blocking vote" for a minor detail in a hyperlink which is not even part of the application.13:18
Venemolbt: what's the problem?13:18
alteregoOh ...13:18
lbtMy Bugtracker link goes to garage generally, it doesn't link to my app page13:18
alteregoStop getting pedants to vote for your app then :P13:18
lbtI have no say in the matter13:19
lbtand for both of them all their karma comes from "testing"13:19
alteregoSure you do, get ten people to vote before anyone else has a chance :D13:19
Venemolbt: this is a well-documented requirement13:19
Venemolbt: although my app misses it, too (for the time being) :P13:19
lbtAnd as noted in the comments, there's a commit in git to fix it13:20
lbtbut 2 blocking votes ?13:20
alteregoMy bugtracker uri was my email address, then I changed it to a talk thread, version 1.0 will use bug tracker.13:20
lbteven worse, if you open the "about" box it has a link to the correct bug location13:21
lbtit's only the X-Bugtracker link in the control file that's wrong13:21
lbtI know13:21
Venemolbt: "Validity criteria for bugtrackers and  bugtrackers links"13:21
Venemolbt: you just have to live with it.13:21
Venemolbt: what is your app, by the way?13:21
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alteregolbt: I feel your pain though, extras promotion is an arduous process, but it is a necessary one imo :)13:22
lbtAgreed - but it's too arbitrary13:22
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lbtthese are not "blocking" bugs13:22
alteregoI just hate having to bump version numbers when there's a packaging problem ..13:22
Venemolbt: just take it like an exam in school13:23
Venemolbt: there are requirements that you must pass13:23
lbtthere are *zero* bugs raised13:23
lbtVenemo: and we all know how useless exams are :)13:23
alteregoVenemo: I think he gets it, he's just venting :P Whkch is p.retty reasonible.13:23
Venemolbt: agreed :)13:23
Venemoalterego: yes, I'm just trying to console him13:24
lbt... cheers13:24
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* lbt will proably be writing the QA checking code for the next builder...13:25
lbtI know 2 usernames that will get special attention...13:25
crashanddieand those are?13:26
alteregoNow now, no need to be nasty. :P13:26
lardman|afkalterego: yep it's C underneath wrapped in Qt/C++13:27
crashanddieI have to say, i don't even like those kind of jokes13:27
lbtI do13:27
lbtI love 'em13:27
lardman|afklbt: that's the reason we've not pushed mBarcode back to -testing13:27
crashanddiewell, please keep 'em private13:27
lbtcrashanddie: nope... my purpose in life is not to make you feel better... sorry mate.13:28
crashanddielbt: there's already enough rumours spreading like wildfire in the whole maemo ecosystem as to not feed the trolls even further by asserting things like that13:28
lbtlardman|afk: yes... I hate it but I'm gladd I feel the pain13:28
lbtyou need to experience this kind of thing to appreciate it13:28
lardman|afkkeeps you alive...? ;)13:28
alteregoI'd like a barcode dbus service.13:28
lbtcrashanddie: *think of the trolls" .... bwhahahaha13:28
alteregoSomething that could hook into the camera pipeline so you can run both apps at the same time.13:29
crashanddielbt: yeah, because you're pretty much becoming one right there.13:29
lardman|afkalterego: cool, was going to add one this afternoon (also need to work out why hildon-mime calls aren't working and it's probably dbus related)13:29
lbtcrashanddie: uh huh....13:29
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Venemobye people, I'll be afk13:30
alteregolardman|afk: sweet, I'll be well interested when that's done :)13:30
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alteregoAlso, macro focus would be nice ;)13:31
lbtlardman|afk: I'm thinking that down votes *must* have a bug# - and when that bug is closed it's removed13:32
lbtpossibly needs some bug/test-team arbitration13:32
alteregolbt: that's a good idea, but just because the bug is fixed in vcs, doesn'tmean it's available in the version in testing.13:33
lbtalterego: *nod* ... needs linking up13:33
alteregoThat's why you need to bump version number and repromote ...13:33
alteregoWhich means testing again ..13:34
lbtalterego: we need a way for the devs to say "only bugfixes" or similar13:34
alteregoThis is why, generally. I go through the testing process myself in devel before I promote.13:34
lbtthere are elements of dev responsibility13:34
alteregolbt: that isn't guaranteed though, a bug fix may introduce another bug. and unless testers look at the code and convince themselves there's nothing wrong with it then sure, they can change the vote.13:35
lbtNeed to keep an eye on the objective though13:35
alteregoHowever, bugs to do with debian packaging should be not part of that.13:35
lbtyes, there are blocking bugs13:36
lbtthe point being there should be a high hurdle13:36
alteregolbt: being too pragmatic makes us lazy and error prone. All code modifications should be properly QA tested to ensure they're reliable.13:36
crashanddielbt: how about a system that would put the thumb down "up for testing" by someone else?13:36
lbtbut passing that means a lower hurdle for reported fixes13:36
alteregoBut your issue is packaging, not code. And that pisses me off :)13:36
crashanddielbt: assuming that the thumb down had a bug# attached to it, and the bug has been marked fixed13:37
lbtcrashanddie: that's the kind of thing I mean13:37
alteregoPackaging fixes should NOT require a new f*ing release :)13:37
crashanddielbt: that would indeed be pretty good13:37
crashanddiealterego: is there no -sub-sub-sub-micro-packaging version number?13:37
crashanddiealterego: version1.3-2-maemo-1928?13:38
alteregocrashanddie: probably.13:38
lbtthe problem with the micro release idea is the same one13:38
lbtyou have to trust to "no abuse"13:38
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crashanddielbt: or enforce no binary changes13:39
lbtscripts? typos?13:39
crashanddieare those packaging issues?13:39
crashanddieI don't really see those as packaging issues13:39
MohammadAG51packaging issues? where?13:40
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crashanddielbt: they are problems that can happen to anyone, and we need QA to ensure that indeed the correct file will be placed at the correct place. Dev machines often have so many files in so many different directories that a lone forgotten hardcoded path will not bork the application on the dev machine, but will die instantly on a QA machine13:40
crashanddielbt: as such, these are things that need to be QA'd properly as much as the next thing.13:41
lbtyes. I used to keep a "clean" verision of Diablo to test install into13:41
lbtbut it's hard13:41
lbtMeeGo may make that easier13:41
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lcukmorning \o13:42
* lbt ignores lcuk pointedly13:42
* lcuk wont share bacon butties with you then :p13:43
lbtyou'd think you could count on your mates to test your app for you ;)13:44
lcukwell wheres the test url13:44
* lbt has been ranting about the QA process13:45
crashanddielcuk: can I have one?13:46
onionlbt: it's a bit sucky, yes13:46
lbtwe have this cool BOSS system for MeeGo which I hope will make refining the process easier13:47
* lcuk has been sleeping13:47
lbtthat's allowed in this heat13:47
lcuktesting should still be something done on the machine itself13:47
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lbt? it is13:47
lbtBOSS isn't a testing system13:47
lbtit's a workflow system13:47
lbtso it means you can add steps into it in a really easy way13:48
lcukthe voting/rating aspect at least13:48
lcukbtw, cant get stroke gestures to totally work13:48
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lbtI've heard others say that ... on mine they're almost perfect13:49
lbtI don't know if it's technique13:49
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lcukbecause when shopping you strike something out, it doesnt just adjust tick at left hand side - it crosses the line out - strikethrough font attribute perhaps :P13:50
lbtit changes the font but not the tickbox?13:51
lcukif you start a left->right stroke over the tickbox it does not tick the iten13:51
lbtah... yes13:52
lbtwell, that's a design decision13:52
lbttick boxes are for clicking13:52
lbtnot stroking13:52
lcukand if you end a left <- right stroke too far (stroke off the edge of screen) it doesnt untick13:52
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lcuklbt eep in portrait mode for the list - if you click the combo box to select option group (everything/dairy/frozen/veg/shoes etc (tracy will love you!) and select its not in portrait anymore13:56
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lbtlcuk: that's Qt13:57
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lbtit's intermittent though13:57
lcuklol im shaking device like its got stuck :D13:58
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lcuklbt - perhaps you could add option in prefs for rotation - landscape/portrait/auto like other apps ?13:59
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lbtI had that - but I thought 'auto' was the style guide14:00
MohammadAG51imo there should be something like what the iPhone has14:00
lbtyeah, in portrait mode it's a simpler UI14:00
MohammadAG51auto unless otherwise stated using "orientation lock"14:00
MohammadAG51controlled in the app switcher14:00
lbtMohammadAG51: and is that a per-app thing or a device thing14:00
MohammadAG51device thing14:00
MohammadAG51make mce stop polling the accelerometer so the app doesn't detect portrait/landscape mode14:01
lbtI'm trying not to "add options".... just "do the right thing"14:01
MohammadAG51i saw qwerty12 post something on that14:01
MohammadAG51maybe it can be made into a status menu applet14:01
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lcuklbt - i have voted since the points raised are not issues with your app :) its borne in qt so very hard to break14:02
lcukand does mention tracy explicitly14:02
lbtheh :)14:03
lcukshe can install it on hers14:03
lcuklbt - why the specific reference to xrandr?14:03
lbtit did rotation on the 81014:03
lbtit had an explicit rotate button14:04
lcukand i know you have meat aisle - but why list HAM as dependency14:04
lbtand it also had a "left handed" mode14:04
lbtsadly the N900 is handist14:04
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lcukdoes left handed mode effect the number of bars shown on n900?14:04
lbtit cetainly saw that problem coming!14:05
lcukbtw, i want a portrait stand!14:05
lcukive got one of Fakes' laser cut one14:05
* lbt still wants a stand that works14:05
lcukbut i want a portrait version14:05
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lcukmorning crashanddie, yes ill make you a bacon buttie14:07
* lcuk had bacon last night for first time in ages14:07
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crashanddiethank you lcuk14:08
crashanddiechem|st: you a mod in general?14:09
pupnik_i need a bacon sofa14:12
lcukpupnik_, that would be a false economy - you would have nowhere to sit afte ra while14:13
lcukmuch better to sit on live pigs14:13
lcukthey would keep you warm14:13
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pupnik_genetically engineered animal furniture14:14
pupnik_'for the man who has everything'14:15
lcukand if you train them right, you could get them to walk you to your office etc14:15
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pupnik_plus when the pillows got too soft you could fry them on the grill14:16
AStormpupnik_, chairdogs?14:16
AStormit's already been invented, but never produced14:17
AStormremember you have to feed them every so often14:17
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AStormoh and trim the hair14:19
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pupnik_imitation leather with a chemically intert matrix supporting, say, plant cells building a soft hair folicle.  by changing the seed cells and nutrient mix you could get different 'furs' for your sofa.14:23
pupnik_would at least be a nice touch for a sci-fi setting14:24
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crashanddielcuk: I think we used to use horses14:25
crashanddielcuk: they give milk, go fast, and you can even eat them14:25
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pupnik_<geek>that's why you see em in 'Firefly'</geek>14:27
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crashanddiewho in this channel has ever owned a horse?14:27
* crashanddie raises hand14:28
pupnik_i've sprayed a couple with a garden hose but they didn't like it14:28
IkarusI've eaten them14:28
kerioIkarus: om nom nom14:29
lcukpupnik_, would take a while to regrow new surface14:29
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lcukand the days after you would get stubble burn14:29
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loufoque_why is OMWeather getting updated every other day?14:30
pupnik_lcuk: trying to imagine what the simplest, first 'biological fabrics' might look like14:31
lcukisnt cotton a biological fabric?14:31
pupnik_not alive14:31
lcukor fur14:31
lcukor leather14:31
loufoque_cotton is very much alive14:31
pupnik_sorry, the name was a poor choice14:31
loufoque_it's just vegetal14:31
lcukohh actual adaptable real organics14:31
lcukget worker ants14:32
heoatrying to sep up n810 as low-power file-server. Anyone knows microUSB-RJ45 conversion adapter?14:32
lcukto build a mesh14:32
loufoque_heoa: use your computer as a bridge,14:32
lcukheoa, hmmm when i did usb host stuff on 810 - i just used my nokia adapter and a female-female dongle14:32
lcukto give me a regular usb port to plug stuff into14:33
heoaloufoque_: not possible, the comp uses too much watts ---> trying to get low-power14:33
lcuksame principle is being looked at to work also on n900 :D14:33
kerioheoa: wifi?14:33
lcukkerio, wifi file servers arent as fast14:33
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lcukusb == faster than wifi14:33
keriogood point14:33
lcukbut if your machines being served are on wifi it would work14:34
pupnik_,details,id_pr,7216,menu_mode,categories.html   heh14:34
keriopupnik_: is there a way to get that working on the n900?14:35
keriopossibly with power-over-ethernet14:36
chem|stcrash me is S-Mod14:36
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pupnik_i suspect only with usb chipsets that support acting like ethernet endpoints14:36
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kerionokia should've added that14:37
kerioalso usb on the go14:37
kerioDAMN YOU NOKIA!14:37
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lcukkerio, relax a bit14:38
loufoque_lcuk: this doesn't make any sense at all.14:38
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lcukloufoque_, what doesnt14:40
lcukeverything i say makes sense14:40
lcukapart from the bits which dont14:40
keriolcuk: the lack of usb-on-the-go *is* disappointing :(14:40
pupnik_i don't see why that device from couldn't work with a n800/n81014:40
pupnik_lcuk: any thoughts?14:40
pupnik_i might prefer this arrangement for myself14:40
loufoque_lcuk: the link you gave14:40
lcukkerio, really - let me be totally honest here - usb otg on the n810 was used for what?14:41
keriopupnik_: is it supported by linux?14:41
lcukit looks like we will have usb host mode soon14:41
keriolcuk: connecting pen drives14:41
loufoque_does N900 do host mode,14:41
jacekowskiwith some hacking14:41
kerioloufoque_: not yet14:41
jacekowskibut yes14:41
lcukloufoque_, there are general hacks in place and discussion ongoing about activating properly, yes14:41
pupnik_only for kids who finish their plate14:41
lcukkerio, usb host mode would do that14:42
lcukOTG is different14:42
loufoque_what's usb on-the-go?14:43
lcuki am wanting a working host mode on n900 for arduino hacking purposes14:43
Ikaruslcuk: nice that you want it14:43
keriolcuk: well, usb otg allows for simpler configuration at least14:43
lcukOTG is a variation on the USB spec designed for specific low powered devices to communicate and talk "on the go"14:43
Ikarusyou can't have it right now14:43
lcukIkarus, sure, but its better to desire something achievable than to go for something thats all but ruled out14:44
lcukmind you, an uphill climb is fun sometimes ;)14:45
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lcukespecially when you get to the top and can ski-glide your way back down14:45
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* lcuk kicks portrait rotated transitions14:47
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lcukdamn things dont work when i use high level dynamic rotation patch14:47
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keriolcuk: i want a status area switcher between usb host and usb... the opposite of host14:47
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lcukkerio, the UI ontop of the kernel patch is tiny - the guys are still trying to sort out and mature the kernel patch at the moment14:48
jacekowskikerio: peripherial14:49
jacekowskikerio: and i want a blowjob14:49
lcukthanks jacekowski14:49
lcuknot for the bj comment14:49
lcukyou wont get one of those here14:49
jacekowskii was thinking that we were saying our wishes14:49
keriojacekowski: craigslist.org14:50
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lcukperhaps we need a pelvic thrust alarm app for n90014:51
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keriolcuk: let's do the time warp again14:51
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pupnik_hmm, one could track employees not being at certain stations nicely with a n90014:53
lcukpupnik_, gps doesnt work nicely indoors14:53
lcuknever has, never will14:53
MohammadAG51always does here14:53
lcukotherwise i would agree14:53
pupnik_oh true enough14:53
lcukMohammadAG51, you are barely indoors to the sorts of levels lots of employees are14:54
lcukbig multistorey buildings etc14:54
kerioMohammadAG51: what's your job?14:54
lcukMohammadAG51, some people dont have real windows to look out of14:54
* lcuk misses the window he used to look out of at old job :) i hope when i get in next office i have a view14:55
MohammadAG51lcuk, you said indoors, you didn't specift what type of building14:55
lcukok, it works sometimes14:55
lcukbut not reproducably14:55
MohammadAG51kerio, am I allowed to work?14:55
* ptl does not have any real windows on the building where he works14:55
kerioMohammadAG51: dunno14:56
kerioi don't work14:56
* ptl works at late night, from 0:00 to 08:00... And this is good in one point of view14:56
* ptl never knows if it's night or day there14:56
MohammadAG51synaptics compiled with no problems, weird...14:56
lcuksome basement dwellers also never see sunlight14:56
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ptlDoes Droid X's lack of physical keyboard means the Death of physical keyboard on all mobiles?14:57
lcukpupnik_, i will have my network running a daemon soon enough14:57
lcukso when i walk in wifi zone it will sync everything14:57
MohammadAG51ptl, if Droid\ X = all\ mobiles; echo yes14:58
MohammadAG51else; echo no14:58
lcukptl, portrait maemo even has trouble using keyboard14:58
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ptlMohammadAG51: it's just because its predecessor, Motorola Droid, had on the finest keyboards of all mobiles...14:58
lcukexcept as a 6 bar chord14:58
ptlMohammadAG51: that must mean something14:58
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ptllcuk: I was thinking about landscape mode physical keyboards...14:59
lcukup page, down page, autoscroll on/off, change book14:59
pupnik_lcuk: what do you mean by 'daemon'?14:59
arachnistptl: the motorola droid/milestone had one of the most horrible keywords i've ever seen/tried14:59
lcukwell are devices going to have multiple keyboards14:59
arachnistdamn thing is completly flat14:59
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MohammadAG51ptl, finest? keyboard?14:59
ptlarachnist: you think? I found it very comfortable and agile.14:59
lcukptl i use my n900 portrait keyboard in an odd orientation14:59
arachnistptl: my fingers slipped in it14:59
lcukwhen bookreading theres 4/6 buttons down the left hand side15:00
ptlok ok ok, so it's not unanimous :P15:00
infobotarachnist meant: ptl: my fongers slipped in it15:00
lcukwith nice knighrider lights15:00
arachnistinfobot: you got it wrong15:00
* lcuk nods @ MohammadAG51 15:00
lcuki want to stick an overlay over the keyboard actually15:00
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lcuklike old skool Function key overlays DOS apps had :D15:01
ptlWell, at least the N900's keyboard you guys consider OK?15:01
lcukbut stick over the physical keyboard to allow bookreader real buttons :D15:01
ptlWhich physical keyboard would be the best one of the mobiles?15:01
MohammadAG51the N97's keyboard was better tbh15:01
asj_ptl: it could be improved, but it's fine15:01
lcukptl surprisingly i liked the n810 keys15:01
MohammadAG51but i type faster on the N900's keyboard15:01
asj_MohammadAG51: I don't like the n97 key field, but the size and space was better15:01
Ikaruslcuk: hehehe15:01
heoa  <<--- with them n810 to low-power file-server?15:01
Ikaruslcuk: the keyboard is replacable on the N900 with some effort15:02
ptlI type quite fast on the N900 keyboard also15:02
tuliobaarsFinally someone talkin' about some good things about the N810!15:02
Ikaruslcuk: also, you can split the spacebar in two15:02
lcuklol Ikarus i wouldnt like the effort15:02
lcukjust a clip on would suffice15:02
MohammadAG51yeah, the space bar is two buttons15:02
MohammadAG51for some reason15:02
lcukIkarus, we have control of the 6 LEDs under the keys15:02
asj_lcuk: that's what she said ;)15:02
lcukand grouped together with a cluster of keys nearest each light is a cool way to get input15:02
lcukso you dont aim for a single key but an area15:03
kerioso the space key is actually two keys?15:03
keriocan you get the two separately?15:03
ptlMotorola backflip also has a nice keyboard15:03
ptlthe keys are quite large15:03
lcukdunno kerio will test15:03
MohammadAG51yes kerio15:03
lcukbut Ikarus says so15:04
MohammadAG51kerio, press in the middle part of the spacebar15:04
MohammadAG51you'll hear two clicks15:04
MohammadAG51that's the easiest test15:04
kerioyeah but can you get the two keys separately?15:04
keriobecause i'd like an extra key15:04
* lcuk gives kerio a key15:04
MohammadAG51oh, I think they send the same button15:04
lcuki think it was for my bike lock when i was younger15:05
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pupnik_what's a good non-destructive (open-source) mp3 editor?15:07
MohammadAG51/usr/local/sbin/synaptic: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory15:07
lcukpupnik_, regarding daemon question, running liqbasey stuff on my master machine and connecting to other instances when they are on the same wifi hotspot15:08
asj_pupnik_: you can't edit mp3, you can move/cut frames, but you have to convert to basicallt wav to edit it15:08
pupnik_oh neat15:09
keriopupnik_: audacity15:09
pupnik_it can edit mp3s without re-encoding?15:09
keriodon't think so15:09
asj_pupnik_: nothing can15:09
pupnik_mp3directcut for e.g.15:10
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tuliobaarsin scratchbox, where i can select the target(ARMEL):15:10
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asj_pupnik_: oh for fuck sake, did you read what I just wrote?15:11
lcukasj_, it used to be said that jpeg could not be edited losslessly15:11
tuliobaarsfor me:15:11
kerioyou can cut it, you can probably join them, but you can't edit them without recompression15:11
lcukbut then people realised you could rotate the macroblocks and actually losslessly rotate images15:12
pupnik_in some ways linux is dazzingly out-of-date15:12
asj_lcuk: or you can just set the rotation in the metadata. Same with mp3 effectively, you can cut frames, set audio gain levels in the id315:12
lcukok asj_ so thats lossless editing - do any apps do it?15:13
pupnik_asj, as a favor, i did re-read it, and it hasn't gotten any righter. :)15:13
asj_lcuk: I don't really consider playing with metadata to be editing though15:13
lcuk(since you just said it wasnt possible :P)15:13
keriopupnik_: yeah...15:14
kerioNon-destructive cut, copy, paste15:14
keriothat's what we've been selling15:14
* kerio is tired15:14
pupnik_Volume change, fade, normalize, pause detection15:14
pupnik_don't abuse 'we'15:14
kerionot lossless15:14
lcukfade would be destructive15:14
kerioYou can directly cut, copy, paste or change the volume with no need to decompress your files for audio editing.15:14
keriofading requires reencoding15:14
asj_pupnik_: if you already know everything why ask? :)15:14
lcukglobal volume of varying along the track?15:14
lcukasj_, conversation15:15
pupnik_you can globally adjust volume of a frame without time_domain->frequency_domain->time_domain15:15
lcukand finding alternatives15:15
pupnik_er other way round15:15
MohammadAG51synaptics runs15:15
asj_anyways, you can do all this in linux15:15
keriothat's not editing the audio btw15:15
MohammadAG51should i package it properly and push to -devel?15:15
ptlthere's audacity to N90015:16
lcukhow do you install a package manager application without a package manager :P15:16
ptl*for the15:16
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ptllcuk: untar it then dpkg -i it?15:16
lcukshhh :p15:16
pupnik_for content creators: if you record a lot of audio for any purpose, you're going to want to be able to edit that quickly and sanely - not transcoding to wav and writing to giant files15:16
* lcuk ponders such silly things - itsl ike self compiling compilers15:17
MohammadAG51<lcuk> how do you install a package manager application without a package manager :P15:17
asj_there's a tool call mp3cut that's Xaw based to cut and I think paste mp3 frames, it's ancient, almost pointless and  not maintained, and of couse there's a pick of command line toold for gain15:17
ptlapt-get is a package manager15:17
lcukbut when apt-get was being written (and dpkg it uses)..15:17
pupnik_hmm forgot about that one asj_ ty15:18
kerio./configure && make && sudo make install15:18
asj_pupnik_: as a content creator, and someone who's been doing huge audio weekly for years 1gig isn't bit anymore, and you want find grained control like audacity since you're probably multitracking it anyways15:18
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MohammadAG51lcuk, see how debootstrap works :)15:19
MohammadAG51synaptics works great15:19
MohammadAG51aptitude segfaulted15:20
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MohammadAG51guess i'll have to dump aptitude and 'work' on synaptics15:20
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asj_I would really like a good id3v2 editor for n900, the existing one is good for artwork, sucky for tags, I command someone! fix it! ;)15:21
MohammadAG51mussorgsky's good imo15:21
asj_MohammadAG51: it's missing tags15:21
* lcuk puts his arms out wide, calls out to the god of linux to come swooping down and kick asj_'s ass for assuming they are his personal army15:22
asj_lcuk: what else are they? ;)15:22
lcukstart building it and speccing it out and others will join15:22
asj_lcuk: i wish that worked for the less glamouress ideas15:22
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lcukit works for any idea if you are determined enough15:23
asj_MohammadAG51: for example it can't change genra15:23
lcuktoday, i am mostly fixing up issues in liqbase whilst writing a spec for something15:24
* lcuk will be >>> #liqbase15:24
asj_but mossorgky's ui and ideas are great, I love how when you select a field it shows you all fields that already exist15:24
asj_anyways, bed time15:25
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pupnik_i wish i had an 'energy pedometer' for all the subunits in my device15:33
pupnik_so i could track how much i use over time in terms of backlight vs cpu, etc15:33
pupnik_give me a team of college interns :P15:33
lcukpupnik_, needs to know the energy consumption estimate for each component - SpeedEvil is working on such a thing - then based on reading the levels of each can guestimate how much the rest is doing15:34
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SpeedEvilpupnik_: you know about the bq thing?15:36
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SpeedEvil - originally a script from ShadowJK  - to show battery state15:36
SpeedEvilevery 5s with -r15:36
pupnik_yeah ain't it great15:37
pupnik_now a little pedometer with history15:37
pupnik_and status reports for community/nokia (time of day, agv use of diff components)15:37
SpeedEvilthat part is hard15:37
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SpeedEvilI'm working on it - but life is getting in the way.15:38
lcukhmm SpeedEvil ?15:38
lcukwhy hard15:38
SpeedEvilaverage use of diff components15:38
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SpeedEvilLast second, the average current was 340mA - say.15:38
lcukahh yeah from that side - i thought you meant the uploading side15:38
SpeedEvilThe backlight was on - that's trivial.15:38
SpeedEvilhow do you allocate the remaining 100% of CPU to processes - that's again fairly easy15:39
ShadowJKit's always last 5.12 seconds too15:39
SpeedEvilby CPU time15:39
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I'm unsure it's a simple unfiltered sample15:39
pupnik_well i imagine it would be in our and nokias interests to collect some voluntary usage data15:39
lcukSpeedEvil, if it was liqbase15:39
trembyhi, folks. i just tried to update my n900 and i got this -- account-plugin-salut is giving errors15:39
lcukmostly i could tell based on what i was drawing in those timeslices15:39
pupnik_maybe issue each reporter a key, to help filter out spam/trash15:39
SpeedEvilpupnik_: Then - how do you allocate the remaining power against processes?15:40
SpeedEvilpupnik_: For example - you may have to look at per-process net access - which there is no record of.15:40
lcukSpeedEvil, last 5 seconds were spent rendering 34 frames of bookreader15:40
SpeedEvilpupnik_: Or you might want to track who activated the GPS15:40
SpeedEvilOr ...15:40
pupnik_there's no point generating artificial numbers really.  if something is aggregated in the remainder, just give a help screen showing what it includes15:40
pupnik_oh i see15:40
ShadowJKI don't think I've ever seen more than about 350mA use with screen at middle setting and CPU use at 100%..15:40
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SpeedEvilThe ideal is powertop.15:40
SpeedEvilBut sorted by actual power usage.15:41
SpeedEvilwakeups is at best a poor metric.15:41
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ShadowJKNah, it's excellent for figuring out power use during idle15:41
SpeedEvil(the intel powertop)15:41
ShadowJKNot useful at all for measuring non-standby use15:41
SpeedEvilIt's really not.15:41
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SpeedEvilfor anything but absolutely idle, it's not much use15:42
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SpeedEvilThe power usage of something that wakes every second can vary dramatically, for reasons I've not nailed down15:42
pupnik_so users might want useful estimates of more detailed per-process power use, numbers which may or may not be useful to developers.15:42
lcukhow well do desktop widgets currently track usage15:42
SpeedEvillcuk: not at all.15:42
SpeedEvilThey're all lumped in with hildon-desktop15:42
lcukor rather, their visible state - if i have an rss widget thats on a different desktop15:43
SpeedEvilwhich sucks15:43
lcukdoes it refresh its contents15:43
SpeedEvilI was meaning wrt powertop15:43
lcukeven if x11 then does not show the results15:43
lcukyou could hook into x11 to see whats changing its ui15:43
lcukwould not be perfect15:43
lcukbut would give indication of whats working15:43
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SpeedEvilGenerally the more you hook into, the more your power use15:44
DocScrutinizeruse batgraph to discharge battery15:44
lcukbut this is for monitoring15:44
SpeedEvillcuk: On the other side - it can be hard to disentangle the usage from monitoring from real.15:45
lcukschrodingers box app15:45
SpeedEvillcuk: In many ways - when the backlight or wifi or ... is active.15:45
lcukyou cannot tell how much battery it will use until you open the app15:45
SpeedEvilYou - almost - don't care about what else the app does.15:45
lcukand when you open it, the battery will be alive or dead15:45
DocScrutinizermostly dead15:46
DocScrutinizerafter you opened it15:46
DocScrutinizermaybe was alive before you did15:46
lcukoh owwwww jesus i just cvrushed one of my knackers15:46
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* SpeedEvil passes lcuk a couple of bricks.15:46
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crashanddiechem|st: cool. Then go moderator general, it's chaos in there15:47
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keriosticky modifiers are weird15:48
kerioshift+è is mapped to the dead accent15:48
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kerioyet, if i type shift and then è, i get È15:49
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jacekowski what are you discussing now?15:49
jacekowskipower consumption by specific apps?15:49
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DocScrutinizerthe whole sticky keys part is completely borked15:50
* crashanddie is tempted to ask for mod status again15:50
crashanddiethough, being able to shout at people without thinking about the other mod's reputation is good, too.15:51
crashanddieMaybe we should just need an admin account for moderation...15:51
jacekowskipay lot of cash to somebody15:51
D-IivilWhat should I do to be able to build packages straight on my N900? Already installed build-essential -package, but dpkg-buildpackage gives me errors pointing to rules-file?15:51
jacekowskiand you might get ir15:51
D-IivilSame package builds nicely on scratchbox15:52
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crashanddiejacekowski: nha, getting mod status isn't a problem I believe15:52
lcukD-Iivil, its a shame dpkg-buildpackage doesnt totally work15:52
jacekowskicrashanddie: i was thinking the same about my visa15:52
lcuki think mostly its gnutools that require it15:52
lcuki once walked through the process15:52
crashanddieD-Iivil: it's an issue on the device, compilation works fine, but package building is pretty hardcore15:52
lcuka maemo specific dpkg-buildpagage would be AWESOME15:52
jacekowskicrashanddie: and you see how it worked ou15:52
crashanddiejacekowski: true15:52
D-IivilAah.. okay then :/15:52
chem|stcrashanddie: thanks for the hint... Captain Obvious15:52
lcukD-Iivil, hold on though ive got some links15:53
crashanddiechem|st: anytime :P15:53
chem|stsometimes I think the others just delete spam...15:53
lcukdamn whos been nicking my bookmarks15:53
lcuki had a bunch of them together15:53
lcukkhertan has pypackager15:53
lcukwhich does same but packing up only small simple python apps15:54
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lcuki think it would be feasible to do15:54
chem|stcrashanddie: you should go for it, I honestly did not understand why you quit in the first place15:54
lcukjust takes going through dpkg and altering its scripts15:54
crashanddiechem|st: because of geneven15:54
lcukto use either maemo specifics or gnu tools15:54
lcukin new locations15:55
chem|stcrashanddie: thats a person and not a reason15:55
Macerchem|st: some people quit being german because of hitler15:55
chem|stit's a simple rule! If it gets personal ask someone else to take over if they don't by themself15:56
crashanddieMacer: godwin's law15:56
chem|stMacer: godwin's!15:56
chem|stdoh you've been faster15:56
crashanddiethat's what she said15:56
crashanddieno wait, that's not a good thing.15:57
Macerhow is n900 meego going?15:57
chem|stMacer: what did you want to tell?15:57
Macerwhat did i want to tell?15:58
D-Iivillcuk, thanks. Will read it later :) Actually I just want to create source packages for autobuilder on the go :P15:58
lcukD-Iivil, indeed - me too15:58
lcuki build on device often15:58
lcukand being able to do so would allow development from any os15:58
lcukwith just an editor and a console on the remote end15:58
Macerlcuk: sounds slow15:58
lcukeverything can be done with ssh :)15:58
chem|stMacer: you tried to point a saver argument but forgot about godwin, so you compare geneve with hitler?15:58
D-Iivillcuk, exactly!15:59
lcukMacer, normal developer apps are small15:59
lcukliqflow builds from source on my n900 in less than 10 seconds15:59
D-IivilWell. Gotta go now, cya later :)15:59
Macerchem|st: you said that is a person and not a reason15:59
lcukand if i just edit a couple of source files rebuilding is <3seconds15:59
Macerpeople can be reasons :)15:59
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Macerlcuk: i tried usimg mencoder on the n90015:59
Macertalk about not worth it :)16:00
Maceri thought it woud get better than 2fps16:00
chem|stMacer: the people didn't quit because of hitler16:00
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lcukthey quit because they forgot to put towel on their house16:01
lcukand someone else got their before them16:01
Macerchem|st: heh. ok. well. dont really want to discuss metaphorical hitler.16:01
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lcukactually - in an all german hotel, is there a race at sunset to place towels for the next day16:01
Maceryou should be able to understand the point16:01
chem|stMacer: ;) metaphorical hitler is a reason ;)16:01
chem|stlcuk: that can be an all british, netherlandish or anything hotel...16:02
chem|stthe race does depend on the people not the country they are from16:03
SpeedEvilMacer: it does - in some cases16:03
DocScrutinizeras long as enough of them are Germans :-P16:03
SpeedEvilmencoder that is16:03
DocScrutinizeryou'll see the towel-race16:04
MacerSpeedEvil: im sure but i was scaling down a 720p video to n900 size16:04
chem|stDocScrutinizer: ??16:04
lcukchem|st, german tourists are known for their towel antics, just as english tourists are known for their boozing etc16:04
Macerit didnt go too well :)16:04
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lcukDocScrutinizer, its an amusing trait16:05
chem|stlcuk: I was in a 99% british hotel and the towel race was just the same16:05
lcukyeah, the 1% germans would get all the seats otherwise :p16:05
chem|ststereotypes do meet for the loudest but not in general16:05
DocScrutinizerlcuk: LOL16:06
lcukchem|st, sure16:06
chem|stlcuk: actually we have been the only german couple there and we didn't go for it...16:06
lcuktis just a bit of light hearted banted16:06
lcukhahaha chem|st16:06
lcukso what tactics did you use16:07
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chem|sthistory class in yorkshire told me that for all bad that happened to the brits the germans are held responsible16:07
lcukalso, its more defined in hotels where beachfront loungers are in short supply16:07
DocScrutinizerI like to wait for them at the bar, and laugh at them as I'm drunk while they don't get a seat - well that's what I'd like to do16:07
lcuktats the wrong way round16:07
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lcuklol DocScrutinizer16:08
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chem|stlcuk: it's more like if the people are between 40 and 60 years old you get that race no matter where they are from16:08
lcukchem|st, thats a reasonable assessment16:09
lcukand the upper age bracket have weapons16:09
lcuk"you young'uns come near my lounger .o/16:09
chem|stlcuk: an australian couple and a greek started a fight about it, got close to a real beat up16:09
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lcukright >>> i have code to play with16:10
* lcuk tries to fix portrait transitions on dynamic rotation16:10
chem|stI wasn't even close (balkony) but was able to understand the whole argument like being right next to them16:10
DocScrutinizer50 on the aussie16:11
chem|stlcuk: play? got 70k lines of delphi to "play" with...16:11
DocScrutinizeryumm delphi16:11
lcukchem|st, :)16:12
lcukusing n900 in portrait is strange without a keyboard16:12
sejohmm does n900 support h.264 encoding?16:12
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sejojust used it with handbrake but it seems my n900 connot play it16:13
Andy80hi all16:13
Andy80anyone can give me more information about this contest ?16:13
ArkenoiIs there a hack to make ctrl-shift-R effect persistent?16:14
lcukArkenoi, its not global yet so some of the system apps dont operate perfectly16:14
chem|stsejo: which container?16:14
lcukArkenoi, more and more is turning portrait day by day though Arkenoi16:15
DocScrutinizeralas I never was too happy with kylix16:15
Arkenoilcuk: that's ok, i prefer "not turning" the phone when it is not needed instead of having to press ctrl-shift-R in all application that need turning every time ;-)16:16
lcukArkenoi, sure16:16
lcukwhat you should do however is report this to the app developers16:16
lcuksay "i am happy using your app using ctrl+shift+r and your app works well, perhaps you could tweak to rotate by default"  or offer a patch to do the same16:17
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sejochemist what?16:18
sejo(first time I ever encoded or did something similar)16:18
sejoI use an mkv file16:19
sejowith H.264 encoding (trying again with mpeg-4 FFmpeg)16:19
crashanddie"Eight percent of Russians believe their national team will win the World Cup, despite the fact that it never qualified for the tournament, an independent poll has showed."16:21
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b-mancrashanddie: LOL16:22
Arkenoilcuk: yes, but i want that now ;-)16:23
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chem|stsejo: x264 mkv with mplayer works...16:26
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chem|stsejo: with mediaplayer too16:26
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chem|stsejo: can you provide a sample please?!16:27
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lbtfor those in the UK that care :
Arkenoichem: for me it did not16:29
pupnikTexrat's presentation at Akademy 2010: "User feedback framework"
pupnikthanks to cybette for the video16:30
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Arkenoidoes not play from media player and damn ugly with mplayer16:30
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alteregoArkenoi: you know distributing copyrighted material is illegal right?16:32
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: LOL16:34
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DocScrutinizerto whom it may concern: I got a cheap wallwart USB charger with A-receptacle (and a nice 2color LED to show current). I openend it and soldered a short to receptacle's D+/- pins - now it works like a charm with N900 + CA-101 cable. While without shorted D+/- it never did *any* charging at all16:38
pupnikis all legislation "law-ful"?  are there any tests or standards for legislative acts whereby we can discern between 'law' and illegitimate usurpation of power?16:39
jacekowskipupnik: constitution16:39
jacekowskipupnik: everything HAS to comply with constitution otherwise it's illegal16:39
DocScrutinizerand you got to find a supreme court to decide on that condition :-P16:40
pupnikthat's one answer.  another is that we can derive which codes are compatible with survival and individual rights16:40
DocScrutinizerotherwise it's legal even if it doesn't comply16:40
jacekowskiin poland there is something called Constitutional Tribunal16:41
alteregopupnik, that's why we have courts, t5o decide if hings were unlawful and illegal after the fact. That's how gov't can get away with screwing you over :)16:41
pupnikthere's an interesting podcast on that here:
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pupnik"Richard Epstein of the University of Chicago and Stanford University's Hoover Institution talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about the rule of law."16:41
lcukpupnik, post texrats presentation here!16:41
jacekowskiand they are required to check if law complies with constitution16:41
crashanddiejacekowski: in France it's the "Conseil Constitutionnel", the longest word in french is even "anticonstitutionnellement"16:41
pupniki don't have that - maybe linked in meego forum lcuk16:41
crashanddiejacekowski: I'm guessing every country has that16:41
lcuk* pupnik ( has joined #meego16:42
lcuk<pupnik> Texrat's presentation at Akademy 2010: "User feedback framework"  ty cybette for the video16:42
lcukyou just had it a moment ago pupnik :p16:42
alteregoFor instant, some of our (UK) anti terrorism laws, which are in effect very eavily here have been deemed against basic human rights in the European couurts.  It'll take ages for that to eventually make a difference, especially as the police are now so used to ttheirr extra bs privs ... :(16:42
crashanddiesuch as what?16:43
jacekowskipoland was 1st country in europe that had constitution16:43
crashanddieAsking people for ID?16:43
pupniki already posted that lcuk16:43
alteregoLongesxt English word is "antidisestablishmentarianism" :)16:43
crashanddieOh yeah, now there's a human rights violation16:43
DocScrutinizerprobably except USA, crashanddie. I heard they decide everything based n prior instance16:43
lcukpupnik, i saw it on meego but not here!16:43
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Arkenoialterego, well, i have no other media sample to show the problem :-(16:43
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: well, it's the land of the free, innit?16:43
chem|stArkenoi: a sample...16:43
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: hehe, yes16:44
chem|stArkenoi: means 20 seconds of what he encoded16:44
alteregoArkenoi: well, I don't mind. I was just saying ;)16:44
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ShadowJKThe built-in media player only supports h264 baseline. Most files in the wild are main or high profile. MPlayer supports high profile, but it runs out of CPU power at about 512x384 or so..16:45
chem|stArkenoi: what do you mean by damn ugly with mplayer?16:45
* DocScrutinizer wonders where you people get the longest words from. And have fun finding the longest German word :-P16:45
pupnikwell constitutions don't appear sui generis - they are grounded in a framework of custom and an understanding of rightful vs illetitimate uses of power.  the legal theory behind that is the subject of the above-linked podcast.  it is very illuminating.16:45
chem|stShadowJK: right...16:45
Arkenoichem|st, sound out of sync, picture distortion sometimes16:46
lcukhow do rss feeder apps know when to "pull" new data16:46
Arkenoiand seems that it is just too slow :-(16:46
ShadowJKSound out of sync is what happens when it can't decode video fast enough to keep up16:46
lcukis there an ajax method for server to say new item ready16:46
lcukor do they just poll16:46
kerioajax is always polling16:47
lcukkerio, really16:47
chem|stArkenoi: ok thats a known issue as ShadowJK said16:47
ArkenoiShadowJK, why not to have -framedrop as default option at least?16:47
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: I seem to remember somebody cheering "HAH! it's been the silly subtitles! without them it works"16:47
keriowebsockets on the other hand, allows for push16:47
lcukajax i thought opened a connection and used data pushed down it to detect stuffs16:47
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lcukhey lardman \o16:47
Arkenoii did not manage to get it viewed with command line mplayer at all though :-(16:47
lardmanhey lcuk16:47
jacekowskiwell, longest polish word is konstantynopolitanczykiewiczowna16:47
ShadowJKpress d on the keyboard to enable framedropping16:47
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, weird :-)16:48
ShadowJKThough in practice this most of the time means nothing is displayed ever, if the gap in CPU power neeed and CPU power available is big16:48
lardmanso, dbus in Qt, does QDBus work?16:49
Arkenoiand why does media player not recognize it as valid media file?16:49
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I even seen cases where cpu load on skipping frames was *higher* than on normal playback :-P16:49
jacekowskimedia player is using gstreamer16:49
jacekowskimplayer has it's own codecs16:49
chem|stjacekowski:  Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia = fear of long words16:50
ShadowJKArkenoi, it's most likely h264 high profile. The media player only supports h264 baseline.16:50
ArkenoiShadowJK, and "extra decoders support" does not change it?16:50
jacekowskiArkenoi: no16:50
DocScrutinizerchem|st: LOL16:50
kerioit's not about the codec16:50
jacekowskikerio: it is16:50
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ShadowJKBesides, if extra decoders support did have support for h264 main/high profile, it'd be as slow (or slower) as MPlayer :-)16:51
keriojacekowski: got a magic x264 decoder that allows for 1080p playback on n900?16:51
kerio(smooth playback, i mean)16:51
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ShadowJKThere isn't one :)16:51
kerioyeah, i know16:51
jacekowskikerio: n900 SoC is fast enough to handle it16:51
jacekowskiat least that's what TI is claiming for little bit faster chip16:52
ShadowJKThough allegedly TI has one that can do 720p, if you pay them in truckloads of cash16:52
ShadowJKOr maybe it was someone else, not TI, but  for omap3.. hugely expensive atleast16:52
MohammadAGlcuk, ger/arg?16:52
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lardmanisn't that the dsp codec that you pay for though?16:52
jacekowskia saw somewhere that tegra with similiar dsp is capable of 1080p16:52
ShadowJKlardman, yeah?16:53
ShadowJK"similar"? wtf? :)16:53
ShadowJKI thought tegra would have nvidia decoder in it16:53
jacekowskiin terms of performance16:53
lardmancan our hw theoretically decode 720p?16:53
DocScrutinizerlardman: sure16:53
DocScrutinizerlardman: question is: how many seconds per frame?16:53
ShadowJKAnd what codec :)16:53
jacekowskiwell, 1080p can be decoded on 1,3GHz general purpose CPU16:54
lardmanah I see, I was thinking real-time16:54
ShadowJKjacekowski, LOL16:54
ShadowJKmy 2.66GHz struggles with some 720p files even16:54
lardmanis there any data giving required memory accesses/muls/adds/etc to decode a frame?16:54
jacekowskiwell, my 1.3GHz athlon could decode 1080p16:54
jacekowskiat 23.something fps16:54
ShadowJKjacekowski, do yo still have it?16:54
jacekowskiwith minimal framedrop16:54
DocScrutinizerlardman: probably the websites of the codec inventor labs will quote some numbers16:55
jacekowskiShadowJK: no16:55
Arkenoiwell, those "samples" are not 1080p. actually they are 720x480 and still n900 is too slow for it?16:55
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jacekowskithat was 720p16:56
ShadowJKArkenoi, h264 main or high profile with MPlayer, resolution limit is at 512x384 or lower16:56
pupnik"You have to decide, what you really want to do"16:56
ShadowJKh264 baseline profile with built in media player, 800x48016:57
jacekowskiso 720p is possible on 1.3GHz generic purpose cpu16:57
DocScrutinizerooh there's another topic on my stack: did some tests with a Nokia wired remote 7-button. No conclusive results on what they do exactly to transmit/encode the button press events to the 4-pin AV connector :-/16:57
jacekowskion n900 there is GPU and DSP and VFP and NEON and ARM that can handle decoding in parallel16:57
jacekowskiif codec is designed properly16:58
DocScrutinizerbut for sure it's not an R-ladder16:58
DocScrutinizerand for sure there's some digital logic involved16:58
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ^^^16:58
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, dunno, but when I connect it to a phone that does understand 7-button remote, each button press produces a dit-dot-dit-dot sound in the background. This sound is lower on volume than the background hiss on N8x0, however. There's no such noise when I connect it to devices that do not understand 7-button remote, so the remote isn't even transmitting16:58
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ShadowJKjacekowski, vfp, neon and arm are limited by instruction decode and issue16:59
ShadowJKdsp and arm core would need to be able to exchange data very fast16:59
ShadowJKIt's a 5 man year task or thereabouts ;)17:00
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yup, that's conclusive. I wasn't able to probe mic resistance with a DMM on diode check setting17:00
jacekowskinot that fast17:00
lardmanyeees, well I wonder if that works better now than it used to17:00
jacekowskiShadowJK: you just need to decode as much as you can and push it to next core17:00
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DocScrutinizerso probably they work with voltages >2V for micbias17:00
ShadowJKWell it'd be interesting to try do cabac on either dsp or cpu, that's the easiest thing you can decouple17:01
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DocScrutinizeranyway, on N900 i wasn't able to get *any* reaction with that critter, on button push. So guess we're out of luck to hack sth in sw17:01
jacekowskii hate wireless17:02
jacekowskii can't play 720p over wireless17:02
ShadowJKlardman, context adaptive binary arithmetic coding17:02
lardmanpassing large amounts of data back from the DSP was a problem on the omap242017:02
ShadowJKit's the entropy coding17:02
ShadowJKIn h264 baseline you have a less processing intensive altenrative, cavlc17:02
lardmanwe can now write to the fb directly from the DSP so I understand? Like we used to do on the 770, which would make it far more appealing17:03
Maceri sure wish the email app had a setting to force storing of sent msgs to the imap server17:03
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Macerinstead of the local sent17:04
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DocScrutinizer51shit. A 2:0 in <240s that would have been nice17:05
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lardmanurgh, QDBus is confusing17:09
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lardmanwell QDBus I guess17:10
Termanadidn't you just say the same thing twice?17:10
DocScrutinizer51what's that?17:10
lardmanTermana: capitalisation ;)17:10
lardmanDocScrutinizer51: DBus for Qt17:10
lardmanor wrapped by Qt17:10
DocScrutinizer51aah yes. thought almost as much17:11
TermanaDocScrutinizer51, I meant lardman - he just said QDBus and then said QDBus again17:11
lcukMohammadAG, no17:11
lcukim coding17:11
Termanaoh nevermind17:11
Termana~nuke Termana17:11
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at Termana ... B☢☢M!17:11
Macerwell... looks like win7 has built in disc image writing huh?17:12
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lardmanso who knows about getting hildon-mime to work under Qt?17:12
Macerhopefully it works17:12
TermanaMacer, besides the fact Windows 7 is junk, Windows 7 features is old news now17:12
lardmannah, Win7 is nice cf Vista or XP17:13
MohammadAGlcuk, screw code17:15
TermanaVista is piece of crap x10. I'm not just spreading the same bullshit people spew over it either. Just today I spent 30 minutes doing some networking stuff (and it still won't work) on Vista. I can do the same thing in Ubuntu in less than 2 seconds :\17:15
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, 2 minute goal for germany17:15
jacekowskiTermana: because you don't know how to do it17:15
jacekowskiTermana: don't blame your lack of knowledge on operating system17:15
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DocScrutinizer51alas they missed to goal the other 5 chances during first 300s17:16
MacerTermana: well. i just wasnt expecting the iso burning17:16
Termanajacekowski, funny. Except for the fact I had a perfectly working ICS system going, and then suddenly it stopped working and won't work again now. Even though nothing has changed.17:16
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ShadowJKoh, football17:16
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jacekowskiICS doesn't like when devices disappera17:17
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MacerTermana: i am not a big fan of os bashing... unless it is osx17:17
jacekowskiyeah, osx sucks17:17
* lcuk scratches for some reason17:17
loufoque_os x sucks almost as much as windows17:17
Termanajacekowski, ICS is crap. Windows is crap. End of story. Theres a little drop down menu in the networking settings that works 100% of the time to do the same thing17:17
Termana(in Ubuntu)17:18
Macerosx is overhyped ... nothing more17:18
jacekowskiTermana: it doesn't17:18
jacekowskiTermana: bridging is fubar in ubuntu17:18
lardmanDare I say it, Win7 just works, while Ubuntu is a pita17:18
loufoque_what's ICS? International Chili Society?17:18
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jacekowskiinternet connection sharing17:18
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Macerwhy not just use a $10 router?17:19
loufoque_lardman: well it's the other way around for me. Windows isn't even usable past xp17:19
Termanajacekowski, Whatever. I share my 3G connection over wifi everyday, with absolutely no thinking involved..17:19
loufoque_Termana: with your N900 as the mifi device?17:19
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lardmanloufoque_: I'm just in a bad mood as Ubuntu is falling to bits on my current box - monitors not working, etc17:19
Termanajacekowski, and you think "ICS doesn't like disappearing devices" is a good excuse for me to like Windows. Poor windows. It doesn't like disappearing devices.17:20
DocScrutinizer51guess I'll get me a nice huge Filet of Argentina Angus17:20
lardmanloufoque_: Might just be the fault of KDE of course, Gnome worked fine17:20
loufoque_lardman: multiple monitors setup can fail to work with bad drivers17:20
Macerwow.. all i said was that i wasnt expecting iso burning support17:20
Termanaloufoque_, no - I share my USB 3G connection, over wifi, to use my n810. I don't have an n900 yet. I'll be ordering mine around the 12th17:20
* Macer crawls under a rock17:20
lardmanloufoque_: one of Window's (few) advantages is that multi-head has always been easy to setup and get working17:20
loufoque_Termana: and what device do you use to do that?17:21
Macerwhere's Stskeeps ? i havent seen him in a while?17:21
Maceris he off making babies?17:21
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Termanaloufoque_, what do you mean? The USB 3G dongle is a Huawei E160E and I just use my laptops wifi card17:21
TermanaMacer, he was at a festival, I think he is back now17:22
loufoque_Termana: your laptop then.17:23
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loufoque_Termana: it would be cooler to have a router-like device dedicated to this as you wouldn't need your laptop to be on17:24
Termanaloufoque_, maybe. I just can't be stuffed buying a router that accepts 3G USB dongles :P And its only an EEE PC (701SD) anyway.17:24
Macerhave to reboot17:25
loufoque_some routers can run open source software and have usb ports17:25
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Termanaloufoque, What are you trying to say? I should buy an accessory to make it work, when using an OS that isn't craptastic solves the problem anyway?17:29
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alteregoMmmm, pizza17:34
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GAN900I never thought pizza would be something I'd ever miss or crave17:42
alteregoI get it every now-and-again.17:43
alteregoThat was just a couple of slices I had in the fridge from last night.17:43
alteregoTasted better cold tbh :D17:43
alteregoEasier to eat too.17:43
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jacekowskiGAN900: pregnant womens get that sort of cravings17:45
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alteregoThat was low jacekowski :P17:46
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alteregoTexrats talk is pretty good pupnik17:47
alteregoThank you for sharing the link.17:47
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DocScrutinizerTermana: EEE PC 701 + 3G dongle. Sounds like you bought this in Taipei ;-P17:50
DocScrutinizerTermana: though mine is a 701SDX, in white17:51
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alteregoOoo, I really like the gaming ide.a17:51
lcukhey guys17:51
lcukmaemo calculator17:51
alteregoAloha lcuk17:51
DocScrutinizerhey lcuk17:51
lcuki just tested it in portrait mode17:51
lcukand it was broke17:51
lcukits unusable17:52
Termanalcuk, give it some money17:52
lcukneeds a ui adjustment to work17:52
TermanaIt won't be broke any more17:52
povbotBug 10854: portrait mode calculator not available17:52
lcuki filed a bug17:52
DocScrutinizeruse HP42. Works great, even in portrait :-P17:52
lcukcan we have some votes on it please17:52
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: that bug is incorrect. Should read "found no adequate bin to dump calculator"17:53
rodaldhi, does anyone know if i can use the TV Catchup app out of the UK? i live in Guatemala and it asks me to sign up first but it doesnt allow me to sign up17:53
lcukDocScrutinizer, not at all, its usable if im in landscape mode17:53
lcukit happily performs its functin and i use it often17:54
DocScrutinizerTV Ketchup17:54
lcukbut i had to take my device off its portrait stand to use it17:54
* pahartik finds out that "Irssi" on "Maemo" does not have "proxy" module§17:54
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lcuktheres some other things i would like to make sure happens17:54
DocScrutinizerlcuk: honestly I think even my wetware calculator is almost more usable than that silly proof of wrong concept17:55
* pahartik finds out that "Irssi" on "Maemo" does not have "proxy" module17:55
Termanapahartik, please don't repeat yourself. This is IRC, we all saw what you said the first time :)17:55
pahartikTermana: But I corrected typo17:56
DocScrutinizerlcuk: use ibot ;-P17:56
DocScrutinizer~ (3 + 5) * 2217:56
rodaldhahha no it is a streaming app17:56
pupnikirssi also doesn't have perl m17:56
pupnikwhich is preventing me from robot-voice in irc17:56
GAN900Anybody know how to get rid of the extra paragraph padding with epubs in FBReader?17:57
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alteregoOoo, I recognise that voice in the background asking a question ..17:58
* lcuk just watched "Taxi 2" yesterday and giggles17:58
DocScrutinizerTermana: though my 701SDX has freggled OS (not that it ever been a really working flavour of linux), and for the life of mine I can't get a decent OS installed - to be precise I got no extrenal optical drive to boot from :-S17:59
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: network?18:00
TermanaDocScrutinizer, why not use a USB stick or SD card? Thats how I load linux OSes onto mine.18:00
DocScrutinizerpupnik: I am eaiting for python module & support for xchat...18:00
luke-jrTermana: I don't have a USB stick either, and my Aspire One wouldn't boot from SD18:00
DocScrutinizerTermana: tried, probably I'm too retarded to get a USB-stick bootable18:01
Termanaluke-jr, yeah, but he has a 701SDX and mines a 701SD, they are probably using mostly the same components. Theres a possibility thats not the case though.18:01
DocScrutinizerpupnik: s/eaiting/waiting/18:01
TermanaDocScrutinizer, you are going into the boot menu when you have the USB stick in right? (By pressing Esc)18:02
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: well, USB stick is probably easier than network booting18:02
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jacekowskinetwork boot is quite simple18:04
jacekowskiif we are talking about wired ethernet18:04
TermanaDocScrutinizer, tried Network booting?18:04
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jacekowskiall device has to do is talk to dhcp, pull image from tftp and run it18:05
TermanaDocScrutinizer, I use this to make mine bootable and it loads the iso on as well all by itself - so I'm not fiddling around with it all.18:06
DocScrutinizer51Termana: dunno (it's collecting dust since lot longer than 1 year), but probably not18:06
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DocScrutinizer51Termana: that URL is an image to copy yo usb stick?18:07
TermanaDocScrutinizer51, no, its to a program that extracts the iso and makes your usb stick bootable by itself, so you don't have to fiddle around.18:09
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DocScrutinizer51aah, k18:09
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pupniknice alterego18:23
alteregoIt's refreshing listening to Apple fanbois on their forums ranting :D18:23
DocScrutinizerTermana: I'd guess I should be able to boot 701SDX from builtin SD-card reader?18:23
alteregoRather thana newbs on tmo ranting :D18:23
TermanaDocScrutinizer, thats what I do with mine18:24
alteregoWhich, I might add, has severly decreased over the past two weeks I've noticed.18:24
alteregoOr maybe I've been sleeping longer ..18:24
alteregoOh this is nice: "What they don't realise is that now; since this software patch (if it exists) all those who posted saying they don't see any signal drop will actually now see a signal drop as the bars will correctly show a new lower signal... before they were fooled to believe that they hadn't had any signal drop.18:25
DocScrutinizer51ok. now 2 goals was about time18:25
alterego"Give it a chance at least. The logic could be that simple i.e. if Bars = 0 then drop call." Awww, they certainly are gullable that lot :D18:26
alterego"My feeling is that if the phone makes and receives calls clearly (both our iP4s do), then (at least to me), it's a non-issue. "18:30
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alteregoOh my god, they actually turn into Steve Jobs!18:30
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer51, 3-018:31
DocScrutinizerabout to bolt my door18:33
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jacekowskiwho's playing?18:35
alteregoGermany and Argentina18:35
jacekowskii hope argentina is winning18:36
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kerio3-0 ger-arg18:37
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luke-jrkerio: stfu18:40
Lantiziayeah! wait what?18:40
luke-jrthis is #maemo, not #retarded-adults-playing-childrens-games18:41
Appiahooooh SNAP!18:41
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lardmanis the filemanager source available anywhere chaps?18:44
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lardmanDo you know where?18:45
DocScrutinizerthough, HFM itself I'm not sure18:45
lardmanoh :(18:45
DocScrutinizerplease send photos of Maradonna to me!18:46
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* MohammadAG expects a 5th one18:46
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DocScrutinizerthey have to hurry for the 5th18:47
DocScrutinizerwasn't that AR whose players started a beatup when game was just finished?18:48
MohammadAGI can haz +o to add "Germany for world cup 2010" to the topic?18:51
jacekowskii will haz you dos ed18:52
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MohammadAGgood luck with that18:53
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jacekowskiwanna bet?18:53
MohammadAGnah, I don't want you to lose shit :)18:54
DocScrutinizerooh, for [^(51)] I don't care that much :-P18:54
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jacekowskii was about to dos him18:55
jacekowskiand he left18:55
TermanaSince its 1:30 in the morning here, I suppose I better be off as well. Good night18:55
DocScrutinizernight Termana18:56
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: keep your fingers off my bouncer :-P18:56
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* alterego wonders off to make a snack before heading into the town ...19:01
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GAN900The 4th just had to fall on a Sunday19:04
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*** ChanServ changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Free software mirror: | Germany for world cup 2010"19:05
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crashanddiejacekowski: be my guest, DoS ChanServ ;)19:07
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lardmanso, anyone know where the hildon filemanager source lives? iirc the backend lib was open wasn't it?19:20
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lcukyes lardman the backend is open19:26
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JaffaAf'noon, all19:41
alteregoJaffa, liked that open letter about OBS maemo area :)19:42
Jaffaalterego: lbt did most of the work ;-)19:42
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alteregoWell, he's not here, so you can have my appreciation :P19:42
Jaffaalterego: ta :)19:43
alteregoAny feedback from LF?19:43
alteregoOr whomever :D19:43
alteregoOh, :/19:43
JaffaNot really; so I think we're going ahead19:43
alteregoI liked the Nokia name drop too :D19:43
alteregoOh dear, time for another browser history purge :/19:44
alteregoReally makes auto complete pointless :D19:44
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alteregoGrr, now the browser just fails to load pages, wtf. It looks like it tries and then gives up :(19:50
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GAN900Jaffa, I actually think I prefer the interface of Docs.19:54
GAN900Etherpad has some clunkiness.19:55
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keriofor what?19:56
GAN900kerio, issue creation.19:56
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keriowhat's wrong with textarea? :P19:57
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GAN900kerio, it means we have to build our collaboration environment from scratch?19:59
GAN900Which is actually the plan, but.19:59
JaffaGAN900: The new version of docs doesn't make it easy to rip out the plain text doc :-(19:59
kerioso far, pecan > haze and butterfly right?20:00
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strcpyTEAM PlanB20:10
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ljsdofuynsdfufuhwhere does the openvpn applet put its logs?21:11
n1x0nhi there, I know this is not a maemo-related question really - but I hope to there are some N900 owners here =] Basically trying to get N900 but apparently it has a simlock (?!) - I was under the impression that they don't have that (apparently that's from vodafone) , anyone had any experiencie with that by any chance ?21:12
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crashanddieljsdofuynsdfufuh: nickname21:13
luke-jrn1x0n: never heard of a simlocked N90021:13
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n1x0nluke-jr: yeah same! odd. I'll google a bit more, thx21:16
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timetochangehow do you highlight text to copy and paste from a webpage?21:19
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crashanddietimetochange: swipe your finger from the bottom left, outside of the screen into the screen21:21
crashanddietimetochange: you'll have a mouse cursor. Also works for Javascript hover.21:22
crashanddietimetochange: would you mind just changing the default nickname in your IRC client? Thanks.21:22
crashanddietimetochange: next time you'll be banned. I'm tired of asking.21:23
luke-jrwhat's wrong with it?21:23
crashanddienot this one, the previous one21:23
luke-jrwhat's wrong with it? :/21:23
crashanddiehe knows what I'm on about21:23
crashanddieit's jibberish?21:23
timetochangeim not getting this cursor...21:23
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luke-jrcrashanddie is gibberish too21:24
timetochangebottom left, meaning over that arrow?21:24
timetochangeI'm not getting a cursor21:24
luke-jrcrashanddie: if it really bothers you, /ban ljsdofuynsdfufuh!*@*21:25
crashanddie"over that arrow"?21:25
crashanddieluke-jr: I'd rather he does it on his own.21:25
crashanddieluke-jr: but yeah, that's what'll happen eventually21:25
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timetochangeah wtf21:26
timetochangesaw it for a sec21:26
timetochangeonce i have it how do i highlight?21:27
DocScrutinizerI'd say a +q is absolutely sufficient in that case21:27
crashanddieonce the cursor icon display, click it. Then you can drag your finger around21:27
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: +q prevents nick change, so really the same as +b21:28
luke-jris it just the length of the gibberish?21:28
* DocScrutinizer is dragging around his fingers21:28
luke-jr/ban ??????????*!*@* to enforce IRC RFC :P21:28
DocScrutinizer/ban luke-jr to fight poisonous ideas21:29
ptlwhy is redirected again to internettablettalk?21:30
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DocScrutinizerdamn, even registered21:30
crashanddieptl: it doesn't21:31
SpeedEvilIt is a synonym21:31
timetochangewow using that cursor is a fucking skill21:32
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DocScrutinizerbtw crashanddie while you're over it: /ban `*  [*  *___*  |*  ^*21:33
ptlI know it is a synonym, but now every thread I click goes on to internettablettalk instead of maemo.org21:33
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: eh?21:33
crashanddieptl: I don't see that behaviour21:34
crashanddieptl: steps to reproduce?21:34
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mikki-kuntimetochange: i don't think it's hard...21:35
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: I gather you never tried to enter nicknames like |R or _0x47 or \[\[\[ bla ]]] on N90021:35
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: nope21:35
timetochangeI keep getting socket.connect() failed using the openvpn thing21:36
DocScrutinizerhonestly, ljsdofuynsdfufuh is easy (with nick completion) compared to these21:36
timetochangewhy thank you21:36
timetochangeuse irssi?21:36
crashanddietimetochange: port in use?21:37
crashanddietimetochange: socket timeout?21:37
ptlcrashanddie: can't seem to reproduce this right now, weird21:37
timetochangedidnt specify a timeout21:37
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crashanddietimetochange: no, I meant that the socket remains in use for a while if the application crashes21:38
timetochangewell, where does it put logs?21:39
crashanddietimetochange: just look in netstat21:39
crashanddieprobably something like netstat -tn | grep 119421:39
MohammadAG51netstat is borked (busybox), install the non busybox version (packaged as netstat)21:39
timetochange"no kernel support for  AF INET6 (tcp)"21:41
ptlWow, NITdroid now can be booted without R&D mode... Sweet. It's progressing faster than Meego!21:41
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr:  [Support] CHARSET=ascii NICKLEN=16 CHANNELLEN=50 ....    I'd say that's freenode's call, not the chanop enforcing some obscure RFC21:44
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ptlhave you guys ever met a GNU/Linux user that also worked as a male stripper or gogoboy?21:52
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lbtCould someone volunteer to prepare a web page on the (meego) wiki? I need some MeeGo and some Maemo volunteer devs who can help verify the OBS setup.21:56
lbtI need a list where people can volunteer and say what they can offer21:56
lbt(ie why/how they can help beta test it)21:57
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timetochangeI'm trying to use the free openvpn server since I can't run any of my own at the moment, and I'm trying to narrow down why my n900 won't connect22:00
trembyanyone using python-location? i'm getting device.fix[0] == 3, which doesn't match any of the location.METHOD_* constants. i can't figure out what it means.22:01
Macercan i wifi tether the n90022:02
Maceri forgot my damn usb cable22:02
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nidOMacer yes, but you need to install a custom kernel to do so, or buy joikuspot which will setup an ad-hoc tether22:02
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Macerhm. i put the "advanced" kernel on it already22:04
Macermaybe that already has the support built in22:05
nidOif you've got the power kernel installed, then just install mobilehotspot from -testing22:05
nidOand youll get an infrastructure hotspot22:05
timetochangei thought the n900 would have a more universal usb connector, like the ones for cameras or something22:05
nidOdoesnt get much more universal than micro usb22:06
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trembyit is standard, just a newer standard than usb-mini X(22:06
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DocScrutinizerhonestly most cameras do not have a real standard USB22:17
timetochangeDocScrutinizer, what would you do if you kept getting the error socket.connected() failed from openvpn applet?22:18
DocScrutinizerbuy vodka?22:18
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mikki-kunhm, does formating the microsd to ext3 prevent the n900 from accessing it?22:19
MohammadAG51mount it22:19
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mikki-kunMohammadAG51: i don't have one at hand which i can format to try it out ;)22:19
n900-dk_Have any of you guys installed the Juniper SSL VPN on N900 with success?22:20
MohammadAG51you need to mount it manually22:20
MohammadAG51or add a line to rcS-late22:20
mikki-kunbut i can rw it then as a normal user?22:20
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DocScrutinizermikki-kun: eh?22:21
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MohammadAG51i think hildon-fm would bitch about it22:22
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: read/write access... sorry if that sounds a lil over the top, but sometimes the n900 behaves really odd22:22
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: why?22:22
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, well, it didn't copy to my flash drive22:22
DocScrutinizeryou can access /home22:23
DocScrutinizersure you need to care about mounting... but when it's mounted normally, I can't see the issue22:24
ShadowJKand chmod it user22:25
DocScrutinizermompl, lemme try22:25
ShadowJKuh I mean chown22:25
* ShadowJK runs mmc1 as ext3 22:25
DocScrutinizerok, so I'll not try22:25
DocScrutinizereven whule I'm sure I already did22:25
mikki-kunhm, thanks... so i need to make a small script in /etc/rcS.d/ (if that is the dir) and that would be it...22:26
nidOdoesnt the camera app fail if the internal mmc gets formatted to ext3?22:26
nidOor did someone figure out a fix for that?22:26
DocScrutinizergot a uSD with 13G VFAT, 2.5G ext3, and rest is swap22:26
mikki-kunnidO: i asked for the microSD not the emmc ;)22:26
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nidOso you did22:26
DocScrutinizerI thought that's been fixed with 1.1.1 even22:26
nidOwell, I assume the same applies that the camera app wont be able to save to the microsd if you format it to ext322:27
ShadowJKIf you mount it manually you can't use it with the camera22:27
ShadowJKIf you spend time modifying scripts and such, I'm told it'd work22:27
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mikki-kunman, nokia really left a mess for that >.<22:27
DocScrutinizerIIRC there's never been an issue with ext3. It's just been the rudimentary permissions handling that made it work with VFAT22:28
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mikki-kunhm, seems kinda lazy then somehow if they didn't wanna set the permissions right22:29
DocScrutinizerlike DCIM created by a root process root:root 744 and then userland camera-ui trying to write to it22:29
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DocScrutinizeralso I heard the folder names were case-messedup22:30
mikki-kunhu? how do you mean?22:31
* h0n3st is away: I'm busy22:31
ShadowJKFor me the issue is that the initial script that tries to mount it fails (as it greps partition table for msdos partition and then tries to mount every msdos partition as vfat), so everything thinks the sd is corrupted22:31
DocScrutinizerso probably all was done wrong that possibly could, and would never show up under windows22:31
pwnguinfat is case insenetive22:31
JaffaYES! Hermes has just updated 4 of my test contacts with PHONE NUMBERS from LinkedIn. Including internationalising them where the info on LinkedIn isn't already internationalised :-D22:31
DocScrutinizermikki-kun: dcim vs DCIM22:31
lcuk+44 Jaffa :)22:32
pwnguinso things that work with either "FILENAME" and "filename" fail when applied to ext322:32
mikki-kunmah >.< hopefully they make that better in maemo6 -.-22:32
mikki-kunand i hope it's available for the n90022:32
DocScrutinizerit's allegedly fixed since 1.1.122:32
mikki-kunbut is it really?22:33
DocScrutinizercheck the ticket22:33
DocScrutinizer[2010-07-03 21:27:21] <ShadowJK> If you mount it manually you can't use it with the camera22:33
DocScrutinizer[2010-07-03 21:27:36] <ShadowJK> If you spend time modifying scripts and such, I'm told it'd work22:33
GAN900Jaffa, that's such a sad thing to be excited over. :P22:34
JaffaGAN900: You've never had to deal with GLists, EVCard and EContacts in Python :-p22:35
lbtJaffa: excellent!22:36
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lbtnow... can you help me sync to egroupware and/or ldap ?22:36
Jaffalbt: might have dinner instead, TBH22:36
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lbtheh... and when are you coming over?22:36
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Jaffalbt: not *quite* sure. Next Saturday: got to tidy the house for new floor to be fitted; Sunday going to the British GP22:39
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lbthows tomorrow22:39
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Jaffalbt: *may* be able to pop down for a couple of hours. Mrs Jaffa & Jafflets are away, and although I've got jobs hopefully they'll smallificate themselves tonight.22:40
lbthey, cool - I wasn't expecting that...22:40
lbtbe great though22:41
lbtlet me know... I'll be around all night and tomorrow22:41
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Jaffalbt: I'll eat now. Try and get stuff done too22:43
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yigalIs there some way to get tagged bookmarks in microb?22:47
MohammadAG51infobot, maemosdk22:48
infoboti guess maemosdk is
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yigalI would prefer to use microb as it is faster than other other browsers, but tagged bookmarks, or some other means to organize bookmarks is essential.22:50
jacekowskimicrob is slowest22:50
jacekowskiopera is like 3x faster22:50
jacekowskiand chromium is like 10x faster22:51
jacekowskibut chromium has other issues22:51
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mikki-kunjacekowski: which issues does chromium have?22:52
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yigalI'll try Chromium then :) we all have issues22:53
SpeedEvilI fundamentally disagree about chromium being 10* faster22:53
mikki-kunhm, are chromium/opera/fennec installing /opt ?22:54
mikki-kun*installing in22:54
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SpeedEvilI have also seen no benchmarks of read performance of /opt differening importantly22:54
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yigalMicrob seems faster than Firefox that's all I've really compared Microb to.22:56
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mikki-kuni am just asking for the sake of a clean rootfs ;)22:56
MohammadAG51rm -r... nvm22:57
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* lcuk slaps MohammadAG51 with a frals22:57
* MohammadAG51 slaps lcuk with a football22:57
SpeedEvilthe recent 1.1 release of ff?22:58
mikki-kunMohammadAG51: that is a lil overkill on cleaning it =p22:58
* lcuk volleys the ball over MohammadAG51s head and into the net22:58
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yigalI need to get tab working on n900 keyboard.23:00
mikki-kunhm, which operaversion is it we use when installing from the app-manager?23:01
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* MohammadAG51 gets a golf ball23:02
MohammadAG51lcuk, golf?23:02
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mikki-kunyigal: thanks so it seems opera mobile23:03
lcukmust be MohammadAG51 the match isnt grasping me23:04
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yigalYes, mobile23:07
mikki-kunhm, curious what sets mobile from mini apart...23:08
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mikki-kunhm, i am trying now opera mobile and from the looks of it it ain't faster than microb23:20
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FIQif you're looking for opera turbo23:26
microlithmikki-kun: mini does all the rendering remotely, mobile actually does rendering work on the device23:26
FIQit should be in settings23:26
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mikki-kunFIQ: i am comparing without any serversided help ;)23:26
FIQi think it's slighty slower than mini23:26
FIQbut dunno about it23:26
FIQmikki-kun, ah23:27
mikki-kunsure, opera turbo can improve it and save data, but i think that doesn't go quite fair with the rendering then when compared to other browsers without this kind of feature23:27
mikki-kunand i am not so sure about my data ^^23:28
mikki-kuncould be that it gets transmitted in some way to their servers (haven't looked that deep into it, but will do it)23:29
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crashanddiemicrolith: well, not really, "rendering" is the wrong word here23:32
lbtX-Fade: ping.... nw seems broken on the OBS be23:34
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FIQis there a video recorder of N900 somewhere?23:44
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lcukFIQ, the simplest is to install x11vncserver and use some recorder on desktop to do the recording23:45
FIQah, and use Wi-Fi i guess23:46
FIQnot home for a week. :P23:46
FIQbut ok23:46
FIQand by the way, everyone seems to complain about glitchy sound on m64p, works just fine here, but in some cirumstances, it makes the games slow down... just so you know - it's not buggy at all here23:47
FIQtried f.e. RR@MK64, time trial, fullspeed w/sound23:48
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jacekowski- i just wanted to say you i'm not a windows cleaner23:51
jacekowski- macs?23:51
jacekowski- no, i really just work with windows.23:51
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nas_restricted content the link you send23:54
jacekowskiit's UK only23:57
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