IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-07-03

kerio	usb?	00:00
b-man	it's a special instruction set	00:00
lbt	X-Fade: just FYI ... doing a pvmove....	00:00
kerio	oh	00:00
kerio	that does what?	00:00
kerio	maybe it can be emulated	00:00
MohammadAG	crashanddie, hostmode worksforme, not for everyone else	00:00
Lantizia	I'm gonna buy a female adapter anyway	00:00
Lantizia	One day someone will figure it out :)	00:01
kerio	MohammadAG: is it possible to make a full dump of flash and emmc?	00:01
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b-man	kerio: it's basically macros at a machine level that are burned into the chip	00:01
kerio	oh	00:01
b-man	kerio: and emulating it would be slow and impractical	00:01
kerio	can't you just recompile lucid in a way that it doesn't use them?	00:01
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b-man	lucid has tens of thousands of packages	00:02
b-man	not possible	00:02
kerio	so better start now :P	00:02
ShadowJK	Is that thumb2ee because even N8x0 has thumb?	00:02
b-man	LOL	00:02
kerio	start a BOINC project	00:02
kerio	lucid@home	00:02
MohammadAG	lol lcuk see ##world-cup	00:02
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b-man	LOL	00:02
b-man	@MohammadAG	00:03
MohammadAG	b-man, you missed it	00:03
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MohammadAG	b-man, like, maybe 100 messages in 20 secs or sth	00:03
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b-man	LOL	00:04
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b-man	ShadowJK: yup, i believe it's thumb2	00:05
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b-man	jeeez, i think everyone on ##world-cup is on a sugar high xD	00:10
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MohammadAG	b-man, nah, it's just football	00:13
b-man	LOL	00:13
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Venemo	hi!	00:17
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Venemo	is it possible to somehow filter the "Active Topics" section in the sidebar on TMO?	00:22
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lcuk	Venemo, i normally use: http://talk.maemo.org/vaispy.php	00:24
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lcuk	its got a filter for subscripbed threads	00:25
Venemo	lcuk: oh, I didn't know about this stuff	00:25
Venemo	lcuk: thank you!	00:25
* lcuk nods		00:26
Venemo	lcuk: still, somehow hiding the threads would be the best solution	00:26
Venemo	lcuk: the trolling threads of today simply pissed me off	00:26
lcuk	Venemo, unsure havent been watching anything today	00:27
* lcuk has been down with a headache		00:27
* Venemo had a headache too, but had some sleep and the headache is gone now		00:27
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lcuk	yeah i tried that 3 times	00:27
* lcuk still feels fuzzy		00:28
lcuk	even watching football was tiring	00:28
Venemo	lcuk: for me, it helps to drink more water when I have a headache	00:28
lcuk	if i already have the headache its too late to do anything	00:29
lcuk	cos extra water will just give ammo for my body to retaliate	00:29
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Venemo	lcuk: however, these threads just brought back my headache: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=739017#post739017 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=739021#post739021	00:30
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kerio	"It has USB host mode capability"	00:33
kerio	huh	00:33
kerio	(from http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=738638&postcount=12 )	00:33
Venemo	kerio: ?	00:33
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MohammadAG	kerio, it does, even if it's broken (at the moment), it does	00:34
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Venemo	MohammadAG: what is the current state of it?	00:34
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MohammadAG	Venemo, same as before, sadly	00:35
MohammadAG	Venemo, only worked for 2 out of the rest of the 'team'	00:35
Venemo	MohammadAG: last time I checked (about a month ago), there was some experimental stuff that was working for some people but wasn't released	00:35
MohammadAG	yes, it works for me	00:35
Venemo	MohammadAG: huh, interesting. is it a software or a hardware issue?	00:35
MohammadAG	Venemo, software	00:36
Venemo	MohammadAG: and how come that it works for some people but not the others?	00:36
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MohammadAG	Venemo, no idea	00:37
Mece	anyone know how one can set the autobuilders optimization flags?	00:37
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lcuk	MohammadAG, and i suppose DocScrutinizer - usb host mode: what specifically would be required to allow a long time installation to be powered from usb but also connect to a usb device (arduino)	00:37
crashanddie	MohammadAG: what kind of hardware are they attempting to connect?	00:37
Venemo	MohammadAG: I mean, what can be different between their devices and yours?	00:37
lcuk	Mece, autobuilder doesnt have optimisation flags	00:37
lcuk	but your make file can direct your gcc etc to be optimized	00:38
crashanddie	Venemo: his is awesome, just like the owner	00:38
Venemo	MohammadAG: if the firmware is the same and the USB Host stuff is the same, then it is only the hardware that can be different. or this is what would seem logical	00:38
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Mece	lcuk, ok.. but it does a "dpkg-buildpackage: set CXXFLAGS to default value: -g -O2" that I believe is the root of my problem..	00:38
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Venemo	crashanddie: if that is the only requirement, it will most certainly work for me, too! :P	00:39
lcuk	Mece, nope	00:39
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crashanddie	no, you're not awesome Venemo	00:39
Mece	lcuk, nope what?	00:39
crashanddie	Mece: nope you	00:39
lcuk	your problem is execting autobuilder to know what to do for each package	00:39
lcuk	your makefile knows that	00:39
Venemo	crashanddie: what makes you think that?	00:39
crashanddie	Venemo: for I am the one true seeer	00:39
lcuk	or change your debian/rules to set them yourself	00:39
Venemo	crashanddie: lol.	00:39
crashanddie	Venemo: I do not think, I know	00:39
Mece	lcuk, I have no idea what you just said	00:40
lcuk	mece autobuilder knows nothing about the source inside it - if you want optimisation flags, set them yourself	00:40
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crashanddie	("I do not think, I know" can probably be applied to most pub argument-participants)	00:40
MohammadAG	crashanddie, same HW as i am (theoretically)	00:40
lcuk	hey crashanddie \o	00:40
Mece	lcuk, but it defaults to -S2 if none is set?	00:40
crashanddie	lcuk: why are you talking to Mece?	00:40
crashanddie	lcuk: why are you talking to Mece?	00:41
lcuk	Mece, i dunno? do autobuilders do that?	00:41
crashanddie	woops	00:41
MohammadAG	lcuk, nope, some russian guy	00:41
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Mece	crashanddie, is he not allowed?	00:41
crashanddie	damn I'm confused, what the heck is happening	00:41
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MohammadAG	Venemo, or the speed they're trying to reproduce it at, the steps need some tricky timing	00:41
Venemo	MohammadAG: ah, so it is prone to human error?	00:42
MohammadAG	Venemo, it was hit/miss for me, but I got used to timing it right lately	00:42
crashanddie	MohammadAG: so what are you using?	00:42
Mece	lcuk, well I don't get that when I do buildpackage locally.	00:42
MohammadAG	crashanddie, SanDisk Cruzer Contour 8GB flash drive	00:42
lcuk	crashanddie, w00t_ has been hacking on liqbase and its now being built with g++	00:42
crashanddie	Mece: 'course he is, I misread, apologies	00:42
lcuk	(to change the subject)	00:42
crashanddie	lcuk: nice	00:42
crashanddie	congrats w00t_	00:42
crashanddie	w00t_: enjoyed the codebase?	00:42
crashanddie	lcuk: any word on the young kid who did his GSoC on liqbase? What happened to him?	00:43
lcuk	Mece, hmm dunno then	00:43
lcuk	yeah z4chh is still in chan	00:43
Mece	lcuk, can I find out what the exact command autobuilder uses?	00:43
lcuk	he went to military school	00:43
crashanddie	wtf	00:43
crashanddie	military school?	00:43
Mece	heh	00:43
lcuk	was starting just after gsoc	00:43
lcuk	yeah	00:43
crashanddie	damn	00:43
crashanddie	hardcore	00:44
lcuk	Mece, i dunno	00:44
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crashanddie	who wants to be a military these days?	00:44
lcuk	crashanddie, moncell is still working :)	00:44
Mece	maybe he failed history..	00:44
MohammadAG	yeah, seriously, terrorism ftw	00:44
MohammadAG	oh... crap, channel's logged	00:44
* MohammadAG runs		00:44
lcuk	anyway - you asked where he went	00:44
lcuk	:p	00:44
crashanddie	MohammadAG: so you can mount a 8GB USB stick?	00:44
jacekowski	fuck me	00:45
crashanddie	jacekowski: no thank you	00:45
jacekowski	dsme protocol is a disaster	00:45
MohammadAG	jacekowski, i'd rather not	00:45
jacekowski	completly not future proof	00:45
crashanddie	last time I was fucked by a pole, it cost me a rear bumper	00:45
MohammadAG	LOL	00:45
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lcuk	crashanddie, ive started reading books again	00:46
crashanddie	lcuk: that must've felt weird, what you started with?	00:46
D-Iivil	evening	00:46
MohammadAG	crashanddie, sec	00:46
lcuk	and i tell you - this portrait patch is niceeeeeee	00:46
lcuk	crashanddie, not at all	00:46
Mece	LOL	00:46
lcuk	its good feeling	00:46
MohammadAG	crashanddie, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=666802&postcount=899	00:46
lcuk	the one problem with original liqbase was that everything was in one app	00:46
lcuk	now things are nicely in standalone apps	00:47
lcuk	:)	00:47
MohammadAG	crashanddie, even though that was an exploit that requires a PC, the same happens to me when I don't use a PC	00:48
crashanddie	you just needed the PC for power though, right?	00:48
jacekowski	but i mean seriously, if you think bme is a disaster	00:48
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jacekowski	the i don't think there is are words to describe dsme	00:48
jacekowski	then*	00:48
crashanddie	lcuk: so liqbase will because lib-based?	00:49
jacekowski	s/is\ are/are/	00:49
crashanddie	s/because/become/	00:49
infobot	crashanddie meant: lcuk: so liqbase will become lib-based?	00:49
Venemo	jacekowski: what is dsme?	00:49
MohammadAG	crashanddie, no, it was used to put the device into host mode, completely defeating the purpose	00:49
jacekowski	device state managment entity	00:49
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lcuk	crashanddie, thats what the new framework was all about anyway	00:49
Venemo	jacekowski: and what's wrong about it?	00:49
crashanddie	lcuk: good	00:49
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lcuk	just couldnt get everything aligned carefully :)	00:49
crashanddie	MohammadAG: hmm	00:49
jacekowski	Venemo: it's broken by design	00:49
crashanddie	lcuk: or you didn't want to	00:49
Venemo	jacekowski: how so?	00:49
Mece	lcuk, you who are wise in the ways of dpkg, configure is generated from configure.ac, right?	00:50
crashanddie	lcuk: sorry, I meant "or you had better/more urgent/more important things to do before that"	00:50
lcuk	crashanddie, everything has been a plugin from day1	00:50
crashanddie	MohammadAG: so what are we stuck on now then?	00:51
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Mece	lcuk, and when exactly is configure generated? I can't seem to get it un-generated with clean and such.	00:51
crashanddie	MohammadAG: note carefully how I went from asking you questions, to using the pronoun "we".	00:51
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crashanddie	Mece: clean doesn't remove ./configure	00:51
lcuk	mece, me and autotools dont really get on - if i have to unautogen i normally reset git	00:52
MohammadAG	crashanddie, also see http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=696115&postcount=1016	00:52
lcuk	mece but theres plenty of documentation about it all	00:52
MohammadAG	crashanddie, what we're stuck on? we need proper kernel patches that make the device kick into hostmode properly	00:52
MohammadAG	crashanddie, this too, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=697172&postcount=1032	00:53
lcuk	crashanddie, writing "class blah{...};" inside the library was a bit awesome, if i can use c++ sprinkled around it might help some things, but im keeping the C api because then its more sharable with other languages	00:53
MohammadAG	t-tan was unable to reproduce it	00:53
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lcuk	MohammadAG, so the specs and changed have been identified now, you just need a kernel hacker to actually implement them cleanly?	00:55
lcuk	specs and changes	00:55
Venemo	MohammadAG: and what is it that is missing from your kernel?	00:55
MohammadAG	Venemo, it's not _my_ kernel, it's sarahn's	00:55
MohammadAG	I take no credit for that	00:56
Andy80	MohammadAG: at the end (I forgoto to say it) you can view our application in extras-devel :) the name is msoma (under Multimedia) please give us feedback if you want :)	00:56
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MohammadAG	lcuk, you already know where hostmode is being discussed :P	00:56
Venemo	MohammadAG: i meant the word 'your' in a plural sense :)	00:56
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lcuk	of course MohammadAG im just reiterating what you are looking for	00:56
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crashanddie	MohammadAG: dude, if you're the first one to get it working, and manage to document it, everything's yours	00:57
MohammadAG	crashanddie, not really	00:57
lcuk	because most of the kernel hackers around dont know about the chan	00:57
crashanddie	MohammadAG: I think everyone knows where it's being discussed	00:57
MohammadAG	crashanddie, it could be a borked device :P	00:57
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Venemo	MohammadAG: anyway, thanks for keeping us posted	00:57
crashanddie	MohammadAG: borked in a good way?	00:57
crashanddie	MohammadAG: "if it's stupid, but it works, it ain't stupid"	00:57
Venemo	MohammadAG: was there anyone else who could reproduce it?	00:57
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MohammadAG	blue_led I think	00:58
crashanddie	Venemo: I think we're again stuck in the position where everyone goes "oooh awesome", but nobody wants to dish out for a bloody female-female USB cable	00:58
MohammadAG	and a russian guy, but according to someone's translation, he used a PC first	00:58
crashanddie	russians can't be trusted	00:58
lcuk	i made my own in the past using the extender ports from my desktop	00:58
lcuk	usb host mode is useful for arduino hackers	00:59
crashanddie	lcuk: it very much is	00:59
lcuk	so far they have needed bluetooth modules and extra faff	00:59
Venemo	crashanddie: well, sine they say that it is unsafe, I'm a little afraid of it	00:59
MohammadAG	lcuk, i want to flash another N900 using host mode :P	00:59
crashanddie	Venemo: what's the worst that could happen?	00:59
Venemo	crashanddie: while I'm a software developer, I'm not into the ins and outs of USB	00:59
Venemo	crashanddie: honestly, I dunno :)	00:59
lcuk	awesome MohammadAG	01:00
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D-Iivil	crashanddie, end of the world?	01:00
crashanddie	Venemo: worst case scenario, the device starts sending out cancer-prone radiation, you get shot by the FCC agents and after 3 weeks of being man hunted by the whole planet for being an international terrorist, your family sets you up and you get hung with the same rope as Sadam Hussein, and end up in his grave, too.	01:00
crashanddie	so, i'd say it's definitely worth the risk.	01:01
D-Iivil	crashanddie, or that :P	01:01
Venemo	crashanddie: well yes	01:01
lcuk	/whois crashanddie: username: Michael Bay	01:01
crashanddie	We're trying to get USB WORKING HERE	01:01
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MohammadAG	D-Iivil, doubtful, see http://bit.ly/2FulAY	01:01
crashanddie	lcuk: lol :)	01:02
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Venemo	crashanddie: if I can't screw up the device by trying to get USB host work, I'm sold	01:02
crashanddie	lcuk: he's a director, not a writer	01:02
D-Iivil	MohammadAG, wtf? :D	01:02
lcuk	lolololol	01:03
crashanddie	D-Iivil: check the source code of the page	01:03
Venemo	see also: http://computerpowertest.com/	01:03
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Venemo	lcuk: btw, did you get to the end of that comics site yesterday? :P	01:04
lcuk	o_O it was probably that that gave me a migraine	01:04
D-Iivil	crashanddie, how do you get the source with microB?	01:04
Venemo	lcuk: I'm sorry.	01:04
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MohammadAG	D-Iivil, wget the page and cat it in terminal :P	01:04
Venemo	D-Iivil: just look at the title of that page	01:05
D-Iivil	MohammadAG, well sure :D	01:05
D-Iivil	Venemo, not shown completely in the MicroB (won't fit in)	01:05
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vldcnst	MohammadAG: that'd be a pain for urls using cookies	01:05
Venemo	D-Iivil: ah, sorry.	01:05
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MohammadAG	Venemo, the source code has some funny crap in it :P	01:06
MohammadAG	it's not just an echo "Nope."	01:06
Venemo	MohammadAG: okay, will check it out :)	01:07
D-Iivil	oh shit... it's one am already.	01:07
crashanddie	lcuk: did you see the talk at TED that completely talks about Open Source, without ever using the word "Open Source"?	01:07
lcuk	no, im watching taxi2 atm	01:07
crashanddie	lcuk: bookmark it	01:07
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Venemo	MohammadAG: LOOOLLL... <!-- if the lhc actually destroys the earth & this page isn't yet updated please email mike@frantic.org to receive a full refund -->	01:07
crashanddie	works a lot better when I give the link, I guess	01:08
crashanddie	http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/clay_shirky_how_cognitive_surplus_will_change_the_world.html	01:08
MohammadAG	Venemo, check the if part :p	01:08
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D-Iivil	I think I'll hit the bed now. Cya guys.	01:08
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Venemo	MohammadAG: i saw...	01:08
crashanddie	Venemo: I can only imagine the astronauts in the ISS seeing the black hole appear over switzerland going "Oh quick, we need to twitter this"	01:08
MohammadAG	Got my N95 back, twitter here I come :D	01:09
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Mece	ok so I'm pretty sure that the issue I'm having is that CFLAG -S0 set in rules is ignored, and autobuilder sets default which is -S2	01:09
crashanddie	MohammadAG: I can't believe I showed you that link, and now you're reaping all the fame of it :(	01:09
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MohammadAG	crashanddie, I'm such an ass :)	01:09
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Venemo	MohammadAG: okay. in return: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png	01:10
MohammadAG	Venemo, seen that before XD	01:10
Venemo	MohammadAG: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/84556/whats-your-favorite-programmer-cartoon	01:10
MohammadAG	brb :p	01:11
crashanddie	MohammadAG: well, Mr. Abu-Garbeyyeh, it looks like we will meet again! Mwhuwhahahahahahahahha	01:11
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* crashanddie goes to open to the person knocking on the front door. "No Mr. Officer, I'm not trying to get an underage boy to agree to meet me."		01:12
MohammadAG51	LOL	01:12
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crashanddie	MohammadAG: is there any chance you could get your name reorganised?	01:13
crashanddie	MohammadAG: like, put the mohammad in the middle?	01:13
crashanddie	MohammadAG: having the initials "AMG" would just be cool :)	01:14
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crashanddie	that's almost as classic as reading about a cambodian python that is called "C", and has learnt to click a mouse on a computer	01:15
MohammadAG51	crashanddie, I'd rather use a trademarked name	01:15
crashanddie	The joke writes itself right? "Combodian kid uses C and python to send spam"	01:15
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MohammadAG51	MAG = Massive Action Game (PS3), or that monitors company	01:15
noctule	evening all	01:16
Venemo	evening to you, too	01:16
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crashanddie	MohammadAG51: my initials, in dutch, simply spell out "salad"	01:16
crashanddie	well, that's my trinome	01:16
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pexi	have you succeeded to share images through the standard (1.2) facebook option?	01:17
crashanddie	pexi: who are you talking to?	01:18
pexi	anyone interested enough	01:18
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* b-man 's initials spell out bam :)		01:19
crashanddie	pexi: it's usually good form to formulate the question in a way that it indicates who is targeted. "you" is quite vague in a 500+ people channel ;)	01:19
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pexi	some better free&unlimited easy image sharing suggestions are welcome	01:19
pexi	flickr free account is really limited with the transfer rate	01:20
crashanddie	doesn't it have like 100MB per month on it?	01:20
pexi	yep	01:20
crashanddie	That's why I took the pro account	01:20
crashanddie	And the new interface is awesome	01:20
Venemo	pexi: what is the problem?	01:20
pexi	yeah, flickr works greatly	01:20
pexi	but the facebook account linking fails	01:21
DrGrov	I really managed to fuck things up lol	01:21
MohammadAG51	facebook is evil, idk why i signed up	01:21
pexi	had some issues with the facebook chat linking too	01:21
crashanddie	lcuk: I'm quite proud as to how graphic and explicit this channel has become	01:21
DrGrov	crashanddie: you are fond of the swearing?	01:22
b-man	MohammadAG51: you were hypnotized >;)	01:22
pupnik_	you can't be serious	01:22
pexi	well, I'm not interested about ethics discussion now :)	01:22
pupnik_	three ambiguous 'you's in a row!	01:22
crashanddie	"So, lcuk created liqbase, texrat has been a long time council member, jaffa united the community, what did you bring to the community, crashanddie?" "Profanity"	01:22
MohammadAG51	b-man, says the guy who steals traffic lights	01:22
b-man	i didn't steal it LOL	01:23
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DrGrov	profanity is a necessary must in order to keep everyone happy	01:23
pupnik_	it followed you home?	01:23
b-man	no, it's a long story	01:23
DrGrov	i actually have made research into the use of profanity and how it affects persons	01:23
pupnik_	i've had nights like that	01:23
pexi	ofc facebook works like a charm through web interface but when you want to upload lots of photos ad hoc...	01:23
b-man	i'll start	01:23
crashanddie	pupnik_: he woke up, and there was, snug in his arms	01:23
MohammadAG51	he shot a portal under it	01:23
Macer	anybody here run opensolaris?	01:24
crashanddie	there she was	01:24
b-man	me and my dad belong to a sculpture club	01:24
crashanddie	Macer: I used to, why?	01:24
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crashanddie	b-man: I heard that one, awesome joke.	01:24
Macer	i need an auth daemon	01:24
MohammadAG51	b-man, crashanddie's version of the story is more exciting	01:24
Macer	or an identd	01:24
Macer	you know where i can find information on that?	01:24
b-man	my dad's friend who is the head of the club, knows a guy who works at a recycling center	01:24
Macer	only thing i could find was some bug from 2005	01:25
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pexi	yeah, and crashes when you try to check new services for sharing :)	01:25
crashanddie	Macer: /etc/intd.conf	01:25
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b-man	one day some city workers dumped dsome old lights off	01:25
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b-man	and the guy in charge told my dad's friend about it	01:25
pexi	well, I did use WinMe for a while so this shouldn't be such a big deal	01:25
b-man	so he got interesten because he thought he could salvage it for scrap	01:26
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Macer	indetd has a built in auth?	01:26
Macer	inetd	01:26
b-man	but he realized that they were made of pot metal (he thought it was aluminum)	01:26
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b-man	so they were useless for scrap	01:27
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b-man	so he put them behind his studio hoping to give them away	01:27
MohammadAG51	b-man, short story: you stole it	01:27
crashanddie	Macer: well, specific unices have	01:27
MohammadAG51	xDDD	01:27
Macer	hm	01:27
crashanddie	Macer: not necessarily solaris	01:27
b-man	and one night when me and my dad were there	01:28
crashanddie	Macer: I know solaris on SPARC had it till version 6	01:28
Jaffa	crashanddie: Nice. URL?	01:28
crashanddie	Jaffa: sorry?	01:28
b-man	i saw them and asked him if i could have one, he said yes	01:28
Macer	dent "%Z%%M% %I% %E% SMI"	01:28
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Jaffa	crashanddie: Your quote; or is it self-generated?	01:28
b-man	/ignore MohammadAG51 xD	01:28
crashanddie	Jaffa: yeah, sadly.	01:28
Macer	er.. that is in the ident.conf	01:28
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b-man	so i took it home and refurbished it	01:29
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crashanddie	Jaffa: sorry, I won't highlight you anymore in the future	01:29
GAN900	crashanddie, I'm sorry, but qwerty12 kicks your ass there.	01:29
crashanddie	GAN900: stfu, or I'll show the channel how useless you are with IRC by kicking yours :P	01:30
crashanddie	GAN900: plus, qwerty12 sadly was only a big talker on IRC, and I could profanitise him to oblivion any day of the week. I just chose not to. "With great power comes great responsi-fucking-bility"	01:30
MohammadAG51	crashanddie, he still kicks your ass though :p	01:30
b-man	and here's the end result 8D xD http://b-man.xceleo.org/SANY1481.JPG	01:31
Surfa	i have certain difficulties to understand you attitude crashanddie	01:31
Surfa	+r	01:31
crashanddie	b-man: that's an epic picture	01:31
crashanddie	b-man: you do realise that's going to end up on some there I fixed it blog-kinda website, very, very soon	01:32
crashanddie	Surfa: eh?	01:32
crashanddie	Surfa: whatever mate, can't be bothered tonight :)	01:32
vldcnst	better watermark that picture, b-man.	01:32
b-man	crashanddie: ok xD	01:33
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b-man	alright xD	01:33
Venemo	crashanddie: really? qwerty12 used to be on IRC?	01:33
crashanddie	Venemo: oh yeah	01:33
Venemo	crashanddie: I haven't seen him	01:33
crashanddie	Venemo: he used to be here all the time. The guy was excellent	01:33
Venemo	crashanddie: what happened?	01:33
crashanddie	I don't know, he burnt out	01:34
Venemo	crashanddie: really?	01:34
MohammadAG51	he doesn't like the channel anymore	01:34
crashanddie	Last I asked him to swing by, he just sideways said it wasn't the right medium for him	01:34
Venemo	crashanddie: how so?	01:34
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crashanddie	Ask him?	01:34
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Venemo	crashanddie: perhaps I will	01:35
Mece	ok... building again. I hope this one segfaults. Then I might have a solution	01:35
GAN900	crashanddie, college: girls, class, booze	01:35
GAN900	(we hope)	01:36
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pexi	reboot is required..	01:36
SpeedEvil	(11:34:35 PM) SpeedEvil: pexi: flickr	01:37
SpeedEvil	(11:34:46 PM) SpeedEvil: pexi: err - flickr has a _200_ picture limit on free mode	01:37
SpeedEvil	(11:34:52 PM) SpeedEvil: pexi: picasa is a gigabyte	01:37
SpeedEvil	(11:35:16 PM) SpeedEvil: Also - htere is no way to download your original pics in free mode	01:37
Surfa	how about share on ovi?	01:37
pexi	yeah	01:37
Surfa	no limits there	01:37
pexi	donno about it	01:38
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Surfa	possibility to download original pics also	01:38
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pexi	i'm just a fraid of any nokia software	01:38
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Surfa	why so?	01:38
b-man	freenode needs a netsplit filter	01:39
pexi	because pc-suite	01:39
pexi	but gotta check ovi cause they have pressure to make it global brand	01:40
Surfa	pexi, well, share on ovi is kind of different stuff	01:40
Venemo	pexi: pc suite's incompatibility with the N900 shouldn't bother you that much	01:40
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pexi	yep	01:40
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pexi	just had hard times to get in touch with ovi account managers for developer access	01:41
Surfa	it's possible	01:42
Surfa	but right now, inviduals should be able to register too	01:42
Jaffa	crashanddie: Nah, please keep on using my name. Even in profuckery. Makes me feel popular.	01:42
Jaffa	Despite sliding down the karma league table.	01:42
pexi	I tried to get ovi maps beta dev account	01:42
trem	nite all, sweet dreams	01:42
crashanddie	Jaffa: cheer up big boy	01:42
* SpeedEvil eats a jaffa cake.		01:43
pexi	but haven't got any response even though we work with nokia	01:43
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Jaffa	crashanddie: Yeah, I have. Just had an epiphany for an enormous memory leak bug (one reference was the kicker, but we needed one of its root objects for performance)	01:43
* Jaffa beds.		01:43
Surfa	pexi, as long as you're having personal contacts it's possible that emails get ignored	01:43
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SpeedEvil	night.	01:43
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Surfa	that's personal experience	01:43
pexi	Surfa, that's the problem because its a very big corporation	01:44
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SpeedEvil	Surfa: I think the approved method is to drive a tank through the gates of the HQ?	01:44
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pexi	Surfa, and actually I have contacts at high level but diff department.. so	01:44
Surfa	high level ignore much more emails	01:44
Surfa	lower level contacts you have, better you are off with them	01:44
pexi	well.. he said that he can be used for getting the contacts but	01:45
pexi	and my friends work for the phones	01:45
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pexi	so it is sometimes frustrating	01:46
SpeedEvil	Ah - my new favourite command.	01:47
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SpeedEvil	killall plugin-container	01:47
pexi	because low level ppl ignore you if they don't have direct orders or direct gain	01:47
pexi	high level.. well, hard to get in touch	01:47
SpeedEvil	pig	01:50
SpeedEvil	ping	01:50
SpeedEvil	argh	01:50
Venemo	is it possible to create a bluetooth PAN between the N900 and a PC?	01:50
pexi	nevertheless, ovi seems pretty nice service for image sharing	01:50
Surfa	pexi, depends on culture	01:50
SpeedEvil	Venemo: there's instructions on the wiki as I recall.	01:51
crashanddie	lcuk: what was the name of the event you demoed the N900 in london again?	01:51
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Surfa	pexi, finns are especially good when talking to other developers.. they are very willing to keep their supervisors off the loop	01:51
Venemo	SpeedEvil: thanks! found this: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN	01:51
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pexi	Surfa, yeah, when you know someone, that is true	01:51
SpeedEvil	:)	01:52
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lcuk	crashanddie, onedotzero	01:54
crashanddie	ta	01:55
Macer	crashanddie: i guess i need to build an identd for it huh?	01:56
Macer	:)	01:56
crashanddie	Macer: yeah, nothing too hard, just find the source and compile it, then activate it in /etc/inetd.conf	01:56
crashanddie	Macer: but why do you want inetd?	01:56
crashanddie	err, identd?	01:56
Macer	making a shell box	01:57
Macer	using opensolaris	01:57
Macer	well... shell and dns	01:57
Macer	low level stuff on my 1GHz artigo	01:57
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Venemo	SpeedEvil: huh! it seems that there is no "maemo-pan" package in the app manager.	01:57
Macer	it is a little beast	01:57
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Macer	identd ;)	01:58
Macer	heh	01:58
Macer	some irc servers are still identd whores	01:58
Venemo	SpeedEvil: nor Extras, nor -testing, nor -devel, and not from the terminal, either	01:58
SpeedEvil	Venemo: That's stupid.	01:58
SpeedEvil	Venemo: However.	01:58
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	trying to figure out SIP on the n900	01:59
ljsdofuynsdfufuh	when I try to sign in, why might it take only a few seconds and then say not signed in?	01:59
SpeedEvil	Venemo: Just install mobilehotspot, and do bittorrent, and you can cook in 20 minutes on the screen.	01:59
Venemo	SpeedEvil: I truly would like only networking, and not tethering :)	01:59
crashanddie	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: nickname	02:00
SpeedEvil	yeah	02:00
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shorter	boo	02:00
* SpeedEvil stabs icd.		02:00
crashanddie	shorter: thanks	02:00
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crashanddie	Macer: boycott identd	02:01
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crashanddie	Macer: not only is it useless, it's a security risk (when badly implemented	02:01
shorter	how should i troubleshoot this?	02:02
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crashanddie	shorter: does you have the same issues on wifi and 3g?	02:02
* crashanddie smokes another joint, and hopes his english skills come back		02:03
SpeedEvil	crashanddie++	02:03
shorter	will im trying on wifi of course first	02:03
shorter	I just bought a DID from a sip provider	02:03
Venemo	SpeedEvil: it seems that it is not required to install anything	02:03
shorter	trying to connect	02:03
Macer	crashanddie: how so?	02:03
Macer	just identing is a security risk? :)	02:03
Venemo	SpeedEvil: after pairing, I can right-click on the N900's icon in Windows and start a PAN from there	02:03
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crashanddie	Macer: "hey, here's an idea, let's give away our usernames to anyone who asks for it"	02:04
crashanddie	Macer: "whooohooo, here's my username, take it, you can have it, woohooo"	02:04
Macer	haha	02:04
crashanddie	Macer: "oh crap, now they only need to hack our password, crap"	02:04
Macer	well... i only allow keys ;)	02:04
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crashanddie	on FTP too?	02:05
shorter	BAM	02:05
shorter	got it	02:05
Macer	no ftp	02:05
shorter	weirdness	02:05
Macer	only sftp allowed	02:05
crashanddie	Macer: anyway, i doubt you require identd	02:05
crashanddie	Macer: any sane network I've seen just will make you wait 10 seconds for the identd, and then die	02:05
Venemo	SpeedEvil: it seems that OpenTTD's multiplayer feature works this way! :)	02:06
crashanddie	Macer: in this age of routers everywhere on the planet, it would've been the death of IRC to enforce identd, and ask people to ALL open their identd port.	02:06
Macer	i know i dont require it but i would like to have it still.. but i will just try to build one a"d try it out after i get osol installed	02:06
Macer	but thank you for the help ;)	02:06
ShadowJK	identd only made sense in the age when nobody could afford computers	02:07
mortini	crashanddie: pft. identd should be openly truested for auth!	02:07
mortini	trusted.	02:07
mortini	actually, with the r* stuff, it made a lot of sense, when things were more trustworthy	02:07
crashanddie	ShadowJK: and in a world where MITM was nearly unheard of, nor spoofing.	02:08
mortini	if systema trusts my auth, systemb should, too	02:08
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luke-jr	What are the standard wallet-photo sizes in the metric world?	02:08
crashanddie	no, you're missing a massive link there mortini	02:09
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crashanddie	system-b should only trust you if it trusts system-a, and system-a can vouch for you	02:09
Macer	haha	02:09
Macer	well.. identd is still around	02:09
luke-jr	identd serves no viable purpose anymore	02:09
Macer	you run into irc servers that still enforce it	02:09
* mortini sets up a finger server.		02:10
mortini	finger me baaaybee!	02:10
Macer	hahahaha	02:10
crashanddie	luke-jr: same as the US? 2 by 3"?	02:10
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luke-jr	crashanddie: inches aren't metric	02:11
mortini	luke-jr: orly? noway	02:11
luke-jr	I'm under the impression that Europe is strictly metric-only now...	02:11
mortini	damn.	02:11
luke-jr	no?	02:11
crashanddie	luke-jr: 5 by 7.5?	02:11
crashanddie	I don't know if I'm more insulted that a European can't even multiple 3 by 2.5	02:12
crashanddie	gnah, my enligh fails tonight	02:12
* crashanddie weeps		02:12
luke-jr	as if the conversion is that simple :)	02:13
luke-jr	Google says 3in = 7.62cm	02:13
luke-jr	somehow I expect people have something more metric-like for sizes?	02:13
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crashanddie	luke-jr: so I was 1mm off? Yeah, that'll make a difference.	02:15
crashanddie	sorry, 1.2mm :P	02:15
crashanddie	I thought we were talking about pictures, not nanoscale engineering :D	02:15
luke-jr	XD	02:15
luke-jr	but seriously? Europe uses inches for photos?	02:16
crashanddie	well, we use dots per inch for resolution	02:16
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crashanddie	luke-jr: but no, print sizes are calculated in cm	02:18
ShadowJK	10*15 cm	02:19
anisfarhana	hello guys	02:19
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Venemo	hi	02:19
luke-jr	ShadowJK: how about wallet-size?	02:19
ShadowJK	nfi	02:19
anisfarhana	Is there any user named florian here ?	02:19
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crashanddie	anisfarhana: there's 500+ people in here	02:20
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anisfarhana	crashanddie: oh sorry , just try my luck here :/	02:20
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crashanddie	luke-jr: you do realise you can get about any size, right?	02:21
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shorter	okay I bought a DID, now how do I make calls out?	02:25
crashanddie	connect, dial, press big green button.	02:25
luke-jr	crashanddie: 2.93292" x 1.46646"?	02:26
shorter	?	02:26
crashanddie	luke-jr: for example, how about you explain what you're trying to do?	02:26
shorter	well it stands for direct inward dialing?	02:26
luke-jr	crashanddie: I want wallet-size photos measured in tonal meters	02:26
shorter	does DID allow for outbound calls?	02:26
luke-jr	shorter: depends on your service	02:26
shorter	I just bought some from voip.ms	02:26
luke-jr	a DID by itself neither allows inbound nor outbound	02:26
luke-jr	usually you get a DID in addition to at least inbound service	02:27
crashanddie	luke-jr: take wallet, measure, get result?	02:27
shorter	I would like to be able to call people on the same number they use to call me	02:27
luke-jr	crashanddie: 2.93292" x 1.46646" is exactly 1/2 tonal meter by 1/4 tonal meter	02:28
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luke-jr	shorter: you don't call people on numbers, you call them on channels and send them some arbitrary caller ID	02:29
crashanddie	luke-jr: wtf is a tonal meter?	02:29
luke-jr	shorter: it sounds to me like you want a simple end-user VoIP service	02:29
shorter	well I just spent 25 on this one	02:30
shorter	can you explain a bit more?	02:30
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crashanddie	you just got fucked	02:30
shorter	well they only allow that much as a downpayment	02:30
shorter	anyway, what is this methodology of calling them?	02:31
luke-jr	crashanddie: see page 30 of http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tonal-system/10991090	02:31
shorter	for*	02:31
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shorter	luke-jr	02:31
luke-jr	shorter: why don't you link the service you bought?	02:31
shorter	voip.ms	02:31
shorter	got a local DID	02:31
shorter	which is the only thing on there I saw could be bought	02:32
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shorter	luke-jr, any ideas?	02:36
crashanddie	luke-jr: you lost me mate	02:36
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luke-jr	shorter: so you got the "Unlimited channels DID number"?	02:38
shorter	yeah, I think that's the default	02:38
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shorter	the per minute one	02:38
luke-jr	you can probably just register it on your N900 and use it like a phone	02:38
shorter	got a local one and tested by receiving an incoming call from a cell	02:38
shorter	I did	02:39
shorter	but how do I make outbound calls?	02:39
luke-jr	...	02:39
shorter	there is no ring or anything	02:39
luke-jr	you dial	02:39
shorter	oh, well it doesn't ring and it says no answer	02:39
shorter	so DIDs aren't just for incoming calls?	02:39
luke-jr	you selected SIP where it defaults to Cellular?	02:39
shorter	they're for outgoing too?	02:39
luke-jr	DIDs are just a number	02:39
shorter	so how do I know if this offers outbound	02:40
luke-jr	voip.ms is offering you minutes in both directions, at a per minute rate	02:40
luke-jr	" USA 48 @ 1.05¢ per minute ($0.0105)"	02:40
Mace_N900	hm	02:40
Mace_N900	wtf	02:40
shorter	okay i setup something wrong then though	02:40
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shorter	it doesn't ring or anything and says no answer after a bit	02:41
luke-jr	crashanddie: you read page 30?	02:42
crashanddie	no, have a headache now, because of you	02:42
luke-jr	...	02:42
Mace_N900	tmob has me about to choke someone out	02:44
shorter	indeed	02:45
shorter	wha'd they do to you?	02:45
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shorter	"Do you accept predictive dialer call center traffic? (Dialer/Telemarketing) We do not accept dialer traffic at this time. "	02:48
shorter	that was in their FAQ luke-jr	02:48
shorter	does that mean no outbound?	02:48
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pexi	this ovi sharing seems to be pretty nice	02:49
luke-jr	that means no setting up a computer that dials random numbers	02:49
crashanddie	shorter: no, it means you can't use automated dialing	02:49
luke-jr	and transfers them to humans when someone answers	02:49
pexi	private unlimited free albums with downloan library option	02:49
pexi	*download	02:49
shorter	hmm, I wonder why it doesn't ring or work on outbound	02:50
luke-jr	you probably put the wrong password or something	02:50
shorter	well i get in bound	02:50
shorter	tested that	02:50
luke-jr	shorter: install a softphone to troubleshoot	02:51
luke-jr	(on your desktop)	02:51
shorter	hmm	02:51
shorter	okay	02:51
Venemo	good evening, everyone	03:00
Venemo	I'm going to sleep now	03:00
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shorter	wasn't expecting that... twas the router	03:01
shorter	neighbor's connection works for outbound [-_o]	03:01
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crashanddie	so my first question "does it work the same on wifi and 3g" would have solved your problem right away.	03:15
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DocScrutinizer	>>• Programmable digital audio effects processing for playback (3-D, bass, treble, midrange, EQ, de-emphasis)<< from http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlv320aic34.pdf	03:16
ShadowJK	"Programmable"	03:17
DocScrutinizer	this is a hardware property of N900 audio codec chip - I wonder why nobody created a decent equalizer for N900 yet	03:17
ShadowJK	I wonder if there's a catch :-)	03:18
ShadowJK	Like with video codecs on dsp	03:18
DocScrutinizer	hmm	03:18
DocScrutinizer	ticket?	03:18
ShadowJK	eh?	03:18
DocScrutinizer	or just nag Nokians the 'short way'?	03:18
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DocScrutinizer	first of all I guess we should find out about which of the audio driver things are OS, and why is responsible author	03:19
DocScrutinizer	amixer doesn't have any link to any form of bass/treble or whatever EQ	03:20
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: I just wonder where to start the bitching ;-D	03:20
DocScrutinizer	as I hate tmo	03:21
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ShadowJK	lol	03:21
ShadowJK	I'm just skeptical about TI's promises :-)	03:21
DocScrutinizer	hmm	03:21
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DocScrutinizer	lemme scrutinize the ds a lil bit longer	03:22
ShadowJK	Like take the DSP for example. It's not really possible to create new video codecs on it	03:22
DocScrutinizer	ttyl, ~10min	03:22
ShadowJK	Because the actual building blocks for video codecs are undocumented :-)	03:22
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: yeah, as the DSP isn't really well documented, or what are you thinking of?	03:23
DocScrutinizer	ack	03:23
ShadowJK	Consider VP8, ffmpeg needed only 1400 lines of code to implement it (I heard it was 100k lines in vp8 reference implementation?), thanks to every codec sharing basic building blocks which ffmpeg already had	03:24
Robot101	ShadowJK: http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/	03:25
ShadowJK	Even though the step from h264 to vp8 is a small one, it'd be like a total rewrite for the dsp..	03:25
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: what's your point? (and what's VP8?)	03:25
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, oh, google's new "patent free" video codec	03:25
Robot101	ShadowJK: although it doesn't use a lot of the building blocks... :/	03:25
ShadowJK	Robot101, well they can't :-)	03:25
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Robot101	it's not patent free, it's a zero-fee zero-revenue patent pool	03:25
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, point is TI says you can do 720p video, in practice you can't :P	03:26
Robot101	as in, you have to check your video codec IP revenue at the door to use VP8	03:26
Robot101	that's not the same as patent free :)	03:26
DocScrutinizer	ok, but that isn't an axiom for aic34	03:26
Robot101	as the MPEG-LA and Apple are keen to point out :)	03:26
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ShadowJK	Robot101, I'm sure mpeg-la would want to argue that vp8 is mostly a modified h264 anyway	03:27
ShadowJK	And aren't they gathering a patent pool for vp8 already? :)	03:27
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Robot101	yup, and I look forward to Google seeing them in court	03:27
ShadowJK	It happened to VC-1, didn't it? And VC-1 is much bigger deviation from h264 than the 1400 line vp8 ;p	03:28
Robot101	yeah but Google aren't trying to extract any video patent IP revenue	03:28
Robot101	they are trying to make it 0 cost	03:28
Robot101	microsoft was	03:28
Robot101	(trying to license VC-1)	03:28
Robot101	its like selling a house with somebody who's living in it, you get two ppl inside who are really confused and angry	03:29
Robot101	google just want to demolish the house	03:29
Robot101	:)	03:29
Robot101	but, they have acquired video codec IP with On2	03:29
Robot101	so they have counter-claims	03:29
Robot101	so it'll be fun	03:29
Robot101	stand well back	03:29
Robot101	:)	03:29
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skynets	is there a way to autofocus the camera while taking a video	03:30
DocScrutinizer	page 38:	03:30
skynets	is there an auto focus app	03:30
DocScrutinizer	>>	03:30
DocScrutinizer	DIGITAL AUDIO PROCESSING FOR PLAYBACK	03:30
DocScrutinizer	The DAC channel consists of optional filters for de-emphasis and bass, treble, midrange level adjustment,	03:30
skynets	for the video camera	03:30
DocScrutinizer	speaker equalization, and 3-D effects processing. The de-emphasis function is implemented by a programmable	03:30
ShadowJK	Not that I know of, there's a manual focus app though	03:30
DocScrutinizer	digital filter block with fully programmable coefficients (see page 1, registers 21–26 for left channel, page 1,	03:30
DocScrutinizer	<<	03:30
skynets	huh?	03:30
ShadowJK	It makes the volume buttons focus instead of zoom	03:31
ShadowJK	iirc	03:31
ShadowJK	the UI was dreadful and unpredictable, I hated it	03:31
DocScrutinizer	yeah, but it kinda worked	03:31
ShadowJK	But I guess it's pretty damn impossible to make a tolerable UI ontop of another program	03:32
DocScrutinizer	also enables video light	03:32
ShadowJK	and can disable privacy light	03:32
DocScrutinizer	that's the issue, at least with camera-UI	03:32
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ShadowJK	I don't know if there's anything preventing a camera-ui replacement from sending autofocus request to v4l..	03:33
ShadowJK	that's be cool	03:33
SpeedEvil	I'm not sure the v4l layer does that.	03:33
SpeedEvil	hmm	03:34
* SpeedEvil wonders		03:34
ShadowJK	I assumed it did, since I was under the impression that the hw could do autofocus	03:34
DocScrutinizer	The coefficients for this filter implement a variety of sound effects, with bass boost or treble boost being the most	03:34
ShadowJK	so you wouldn't have to do it in software	03:34
DocScrutinizer	commonly used in portable audio applications. The default N and D coefficients in the part are given in Table 5	03:34
DocScrutinizer	and implement a shelving filter with 0-dB gain from dc to approximately 150 Hz, at which point it rolls off to a	03:34
DocScrutinizer	3-dB attenuation for higher-frequency signals, thus giving a 3-dB boost to signals below 150 Hz. The N and D	03:34
DocScrutinizer	coefficients are represented by 16-bit, 2s-complement numbers with values ranging from –32,768 to 32,767.	03:34
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: I'm not sure what part in the chain autofocus is pulled out. It could be several places.	03:35
DocScrutinizer	so if anybody feels temped to have a closer look into that - it's on page38 of above linked document	03:35
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: as I understand it, the camera can't - it's too dumb. The image processor block - IVA? I forget the name - in the SoC can do it.	03:35
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: But I don't know if it is smart enough to directly control the autofocus over I2C	03:36
ShadowJK	Well elements of IVA would be useful for determining the sharpness of the image atleast	03:36
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Or if it requires something on the kernel side to read current sharpness - or sharpness over an area - and poke the focus	03:37
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: I'd guess last one	03:37
DocScrutinizer	as you would want to define AF hotspot etc	03:38
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, the kernel people will murder you if you suggest calculating brightness inside the kernel :)	03:38
SpeedEvil	Or it could be just camera-ui looks at the image, and frobs the focus directly	03:38
DocScrutinizer	and also Focus is a DAC driven over I2C	03:38
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Indeed - and sometimes the kernel people need to be poked with a sharp stick.	03:38
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: yeah - the ad* part	03:38
ShadowJK	nah, heavy calculations don't belong in kernel	03:38
DocScrutinizer	mhm, the 250mA ADC	03:38
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: I wasn't meaning sharpness	03:39
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: however - there's an argument for the kernel driver for the IVA bit knowing how to poke the sharpness into the focus control automagicall	03:39
SpeedEvil	y	03:39
SpeedEvil	as that is latency critical for optimal focus.	03:39
DocScrutinizer	I bet there's building blocks in SoC cam interface/buffer hardware, but you need a driver to set registers to define focus window, read out result and send to ADC, etc	03:40
SpeedEvil	And you really actually do care about 10ms latency in that case.	03:40
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ShadowJK	It'd also make the kernel a client of dspbridge for accessing iva..	03:40
ShadowJK	I bet it'd be quite messy :-)	03:40
SpeedEvil	yeah. In practice, accepting the slower focus may be the easier way	03:41
ShadowJK	You're limited by framerate anyway..	03:41
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DocScrutinizer	see, we already got a blob for video/still pict processing, as e.g. the frontcam needed quite some love from this driver to put it into semi-usable state	03:42
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: sure.	03:42
SpeedEvil	It's not that.	03:43
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SpeedEvil	The SNR spec for the frontcam was _NOWHERE_ near close to being met with the previous firmware	03:43
SpeedEvil	So something was wrong in setup	03:43
DocScrutinizer	and I bet this driver has knowledhe how to talk to some probably small DSP inside vam interface of SoC, to get such info like white bal, focus, brightness etc	03:43
ShadowJK	I wasn't talking about the front cam at any point whatsoever :-)	03:43
SpeedEvil	The front cam and the back cam are identical processing	03:43
SpeedEvil	they're even hooked to the same bus	03:44
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: for that topic there's no diff tween front & main cam	03:44
shorter	sorry	03:44
DocScrutinizer	they go over a muxer	03:44
SpeedEvil	The blob AIUI is a seperate DSP blocks program.	03:44
GAN900	The iPhone's display is really unbelievable.	03:45
SpeedEvil	Which sets up stuff like pincushion and vignetting correction, as well as timing	03:45
DocScrutinizer	no idea about it. Anyway I bet we got better cards than that, for audio EQ	03:45
GAN900	I really need one in the N9	03:45
ShadowJK	GAN900, the new one?	03:45
ShadowJK	hm wait, you want capacitive now? ;p	03:46
SpeedEvil	n9?	03:46
DocScrutinizer	what can be so unbelievable?	03:46
* SpeedEvil ponders a n900 with a .35" screen, and 3 keys.		03:46
GAN900	ShadowJK, nah, just 960x640 IPS	03:47
SpeedEvil	(I do actually want a keyfob linux box)	03:47
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, 320 someodd ppi and IPS	03:47
ShadowJK	GAN900, hey if the choice was between the current 3.5" 800x480, 3.5" 960x640 and say 5" 800x480, what would you pick? :-)	03:48
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: hmm	03:48
GAN900	ShadowJK, 3.5"	03:48
DocScrutinizer	5" obviously	03:48
konfoo	5" 800x480, ofcourse	03:48
GAN900	ShadowJK, my answer is almost always PPI	03:48
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konfoo	illegible ppi	03:49
ShadowJK	I never thought I'd see it, but N900 PPI is at the limit of my seeing :-)	03:49
_Elbachaco	spake spanish?	03:49
_Elbachaco	Be kept silent stupids go to the shit foreign homosexuals take his mothers	03:49
konfoo	no comprendo	03:49
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GAN900	konfoo, yeah . . . resolution independence :rolleyes:	03:49
konfoo	gan900: haha yes the holy grail eh	03:50
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GAN900	ShadowJK, iPhone 4 manages to actually be that for me	03:50
_Elbachaco	[konfoo] eres latino?	03:50
lcuk	is the iphone res full complete res or like android oled with half res gb?	03:50
GAN900	konfoo, I read a lot of ebooks.	03:50
GAN900	lcuk, IPS	03:50
GAN900	Complete	03:50
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lcuk	nice	03:50
konfoo	gan900: so do i, but not on a mobile phone..	03:50
ShadowJK	It's very rare that I see actual pixels on N900.. on N8x0 they were clearly visible for me though	03:50
ShadowJK	Maybe I need to get glasses now :/	03:50
lcuk	GAN900, i made a slight breakthrough	03:50
_Elbachaco	You speak Spanish	03:50
GAN900	konfoo, I've read dozens of books on my N900	03:50
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GAN900	Hundreds between my 770 and N80p	03:51
DocScrutinizer	_Elbachaco: nope, this is an English channel	03:51
lcuk	GAN900, http://liqbase.net/20100626_005.mp4	03:51
SpeedEvil	Me too GAN900.	03:51
* SpeedEvil hugs RST38h.		03:51
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lcuk	damn	03:51
lcuk	GAN900, http://liqbase.net/20100626_003.mp4 even	03:51
_Elbachaco	Be kept silent stupids go to the shit foreign homosexuals take his mothers	03:51
GAN900	<3 FBReader	03:51
ShadowJK	hm, is N900 screen IPS or what	03:51
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konfoo	elbachaco: yo quiero?	03:51
GAN900	and, thanks, RST38h for stepping up and making it usable. :)	03:51
GAN900	ShadowJK, dunno	03:52
_Elbachaco	[killefiz]	03:52
_Elbachaco	[killefiz]	03:52
_Elbachaco	[killefiz]	03:52
_Elbachaco	[killefiz]	03:52
_Elbachaco	[killefiz]	03:52
_Elbachaco	[killefiz]	03:52
* konfoo rolls eyes		03:52
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ShadowJK	"IPS has since been superseded by S-IPS (Super-IPS, Hitachi Ltd. in 1998)"	03:52
SpeedEvil	A kinetic book reader would look much cooler.	03:52
SpeedEvil	I'm not sure it would actually be better though	03:52
konfoo	killefiz, is that some newfangled script that's supposed to own us all	03:52
lcuk	SpeedEvil, see that vid i just pasted :P	03:52
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: I can't watch video ATM.	03:53
lcuk	:D	03:53
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* SpeedEvil is making flapjacks.		03:53
GAN900	ShadowJK, yeah, nobody actually uses IPS anymore	03:53
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GAN900	So generally "IPS" means "S-IPS"	03:54
lcuk	api? s-ips?	03:54
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Izzeh	is there youtube tabs on TMO?	04:06
Izzeh	tags*	04:06
SpeedEvil	tags?	04:07
Izzeh	as in <youtube>link</youtube> to make youtube vid in post	04:07
SpeedEvil	ah	04:07
* SpeedEvil ponders moving all of TMO over to youtube comment systems.		04:07
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: page38, and page90,91,92 - seems it's time for I2Ctools once again. Anybody good in mathematical definition of filters?	04:08
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: there seems to be no catch so far	04:09
ShadowJK	nice	04:10
SpeedEvil	of what?	04:10
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer	04:10
DocScrutinizer	except of course if Nokia decided just another time to occupy user resources for system purposes, leaving the user with the need to implement a replacement	04:11
ShadowJK	if I could immediately say what these mathematical definitions of filters were I'd try to make a bass-reduce one :)	04:11
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: EQ in aic34 audio codec	04:11
SpeedEvil	ah	04:11
SpeedEvil	What is it - a FIR filter?	04:12
DocScrutinizer	we got a pretty usable set of freely programmable filters there	04:12
DocScrutinizer	err, yes AIUI	04:12
SpeedEvil	...	04:12
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SpeedEvil	So there is absolutely no point in the expensive battery consuming filter in the speaker line?	04:12
* SpeedEvil sighs at sw people with no hw clue.		04:13
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ShadowJK	and the generic compress filter or whatever "Music enhancement" is	04:16
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: tell that to Nokia, so they might understand they miss an opportunity by not sending a dozen headhunters after me	04:16
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: It makes everything sound like WHAM.	04:17
DocScrutinizer	It's the task where I perform best - telling sw guys about hw properties and how to put them to purpose	04:18
mortini	Wake me up, before you go go?	04:18
Mace_N900	haha	04:18
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DocScrutinizer	wake me up before I get hungry	04:18
DocScrutinizer	cya	04:18
ShadowJK	I'm guessing they just have list of specs to make	04:19
mortini	http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/licensing/instaloadoverview.mspx <- a bit ridiculus now that i see it.	04:19
ShadowJK	and get shot down if someone even suggests making an extra feature	04:19
ShadowJK	be it any kind of equalizer	04:19
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: yeah	04:19
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: 'how cheaply can we implement this list of features'	04:19
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: yep, and those lists probably done by the dudes with no clue about either particular hw nor decent sw architecture	04:19
* DocScrutinizer mumbles "yeah - >>our next device needs an OLED<<"		04:20
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DocScrutinizer	LOL	04:20
SpeedEvil	I saw OLED lighting panels for sale.	04:21
SpeedEvil	20lm/W though - and stupidly expensive - and 10000 hours to 50% brightness	04:21
ShadowJK	why would you use oled lighting panels...	04:22
ShadowJK	that seems... silly	04:22
DocScrutinizer	when I asked, there was no clue about whether this OLED is an idicator LED, an array (which size) to display enriched info during suspend, a OLED screen, or whatever. BUT it MUST BE OLED	04:22
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: In principle, it's not a stupid idea - it has benefits over LED - it's an inherently flat diffused panel	04:23
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: But extremely expensive ATM. And stupid life.	04:24
DocScrutinizer	yeah, but you should have an idea about what it will become in the end, at least a fuzzy little idea of it. Just saying "we need OLED (that looks nice as a buzzword on product spec)" - that's utterly stupid alas I've seen exactly that in a company we both know	04:25
ShadowJK	I'm not sure diffused is an inherent property :)	04:26
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: It is.	04:26
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Well - for lighting OLEDs.	04:26
* ShadowJK has an mp3 player with oled display, appart from the brightness and contrast it looks about the same as normal LCD/TFT, with big black borders around each pixel :-)		04:26
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* DocScrutinizer is away. If someone wants to mess around with filter coefficients N0..N5,D0..D5 then ping me		04:28
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: In that the individual OLED elements emit evenly over the area they are in. You can't make a 1m*1m 1 'pixel' conventional LED.	04:28
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ShadowJK	ah	04:28
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tlv320aic34.pdf page 38, page 90..92	04:29
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: For conventional LEDs, you need lots of LEDs, and it's a compromise between optical complexity, thickness, and number of LEDs.	04:29
ShadowJK	or one powerled..	04:29
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Sure.	04:30
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: with diffusor	04:30
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: now show me an optical design that illuminates a 1m*1m panel evenly from a point light source and is 1cm thick.	04:30
ShadowJK	lol	04:30
SpeedEvil	It's easy if you can accept a 4m thick panel. :)	04:31
ShadowJK	SOrry, I thought the objective was to get light :)	04:31
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* SpeedEvil wishes he had a nice lab.		04:32
SpeedEvil	I want to try to make a 3D virtual sky.	04:32
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shorter	is it still necessary to run gpsjinni along other apps (like maps) to improve satellite reception?	04:40
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SpeedEvil	souldn't be	04:43
ShadowJK	Allegedly not, but I haven't tried it	04:43
ShadowJK	Actually I haven't started maps at all after installing 1.2 :/	04:43
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Termana	yello	04:45
shorter	well I'm using gps without 3g for a few more days	04:46
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Jef91	howdy, I see the image download link of meego for the n900 - anyone know if you can dual boot it with maemo?	04:49
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MohammadAG51	Jef91, if you're not a developer i really can't see why you need to install it	04:53
MohammadAG51	and please, #meego :)	04:53
Jef91	oh good point, I wanna try that	04:53
MohammadAG51	:D	04:54
Jef91	I just want to play with it	04:56
Jef91	and if I can do it without wiping out maemo I'd do it	04:56
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shorter	yeah, me too	04:56
MohammadAG51	Jef91, the way i hear it, the image is 500MB+, so don't expect it to be on the ubifs partition	04:57
Jef91	ubifs?	04:58
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ShadowJK	When I was without internet connectivity I used to run gpsjinni alot so that I had a fix ready for when I used the camera or navigation	04:59
shorter	ShadowJK, does the reason for doing that still stand if one is without service?	05:01
shorter	oh, you meana you kept gpsjinni running all of the time just in case	05:01
shorter	that's smart	05:01
ShadowJK	yeah	05:01
ShadowJK	Normally I have xchat running all the time, online on IRC. battery would last about a day	05:02
ShadowJK	when offline the gpsjinni power consumption was only slightly higher.. so it worked out for me	05:02
shorter	what do you think of pidgin vs that?	05:02
shorter	or can't the maemo pidgin run irc	05:02
ShadowJK	dunno	05:02
shorter	how can you see battery consumption for just one app?	05:02
ShadowJK	You can't	05:03
ShadowJK	You add or remove apps and compare	05:03
shorter	okay, that's what I thought	05:03
shorter	how do you manage battery consumption in general then?	05:03
shorter	from my subjective evidence, installing apps takes way more battery than anything else	05:04
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ShadowJK	Power consumption during downloading over 3g can be somewhere around 600-1000mA, during installation this drops to 300-500mA. So in total you can spend, I guess, 2 hours looking at the progress bars.	05:06
ShadowJK	(before battery runs out)	05:06
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mva	hi there!	06:14
mva	i'm testing voice calls via jabber, and it working, since 1.2, but opponents doesn't hear me (but if i calling echo bot (asterisk and telepathy) — it hears me).	06:16
mva	anybody have any ideas, how it can be? :)	06:17
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LiraNuna	any Qt devs here?	06:21
ManoftheSea	opponents?	06:22
LiraNuna	ManoftheSea, not everyone are native english speaker, I doubt you're having trouble understanding what he says	06:23
luke-jr	mva: maybe I'm just deaf	06:25
luke-jr	or had the volume too low	06:25
luke-jr	:)	06:25
mva	no-no	06:26
mva	majik doesn't hear me too	06:26
mva	ManoftheSea, for example, luke-jr ;)	06:26
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luke-jr	ManoftheSea: it's not a game without opponents!	06:28
rodald	hi, does anyone knows if its posible to eliminate the interference caused by the internet connection on the n900?	06:31
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luke-jr	rodald: there is no interference :)	06:37
rodald	how comes mine does cause interference?	06:37
luke-jr	it couldn't, or FCC wouldn't approve	06:38
rodald	right now im infrot of a tv and it makes sounds and disrupts the image	06:38
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ManoftheSea	what interference?	06:42
ManoftheSea	oh, that's GSM...	06:43
ManoftheSea	from the internet connection?	06:43
ManoftheSea	My cell phone makes speakers buzz in a distinctive pattern.	06:43
ManoftheSea	also, luke-jr, it's a radiative device, it CAN cause interference.	06:43
rodald	yes thats what i am talking about	06:43
mva	luke-jr, lol	06:44
ManoftheSea	the best way is to move it a couple feet away	06:44
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mva	luke-jr, when i call myself with psi from anoter jid (btw, voice only) — i hear myself.	06:44
shorter	http://www.hideipvpn.com/2010/02/howto-nokia-n900-os-maemo-openvpn-setup-tutorial/ I followed this guide and it keeps asking for user/pass - any ideas?	06:45
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mva	luke-jr, but when i call myself from n900 to Psi — i hear not.	06:45
ManoftheSea	shorter: did you set up a user/pass?	06:45
rodald	yeah but i work at a call center and it realy sucks not been able to use my device	06:45
shorter	it doesn't require one	06:46
ManoftheSea	then no, I have no ideas.	06:46
rodald	it stoped for a few days but then it came back	06:46
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hallyn	connecting with vncviewer to a tightvnc server. getting all caps (except when i type two keys really fast, the second is lower-case).	07:10
hallyn	i've only seen one report of that online with no confirmation. anyone else seen that?	07:10
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shorter	openvpn applet on n900 requires a configuration file - is there an easy way to make one?	07:11
shorter	er generate?	07:11
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shorter	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=619254#post619254 some shit renamed my device to something retarded, as per this thread	07:19
shorter	no big deal I guess, but it is unsettling	07:19
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shorter	I'm getting socket.connection failed on openvpn	07:35
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user___	i can't seem to get media player to detect songs on external drive	07:47
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user___	is there a .conf for media player so i can tell it where to scan for media?	07:48
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radiochickenwax	Hi does anyone out there know if GSM is working in debian or ubuntu for n900?	08:01
shorter	anyone have a config file for their n900 openvpn client they can lend me?	08:06
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shorter	where does openvpn applet put logs?	08:16
shorter	I need to trouble shoot this	08:16
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Macer	looks like i will go with fbsd8	08:30
shorter	for waht	08:35
Macer	a shell and dns box using my artigo	08:35
Macer	it is a 1GHz C7	08:36
Macer	real small 10W box... strong for its size though	08:36
Macer	im watching the smartest guys in the room	08:37
Macer	i love this movie	08:37
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RST38h	moo all	09:03
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toggles_w	woof	09:14
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DocScrutinizer	meeow	09:23
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LiraNuna	is there a way to know if the phone s currently on EDGE?	09:51
LiraNuna	(programatically)	09:51
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kerio	as opposed to 3G or as opposed to gprs?	09:53
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LiraNuna	I want to determine fast/slow connection	09:56
kerio	fast as in hspa or fast as in edge?	09:56
LiraNuna	fast as in >5KB/s	09:57
kerio	lol	09:58
kerio	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43411 gsm/3g/dual	10:00
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LiraNuna	currently	10:00
LiraNuna	not config	10:00
LiraNuna	"Dual" can still mean '2.5G connection'	10:00
LiraNuna	I want to switch to 'low bandwidth mode' in my app in case user's on edge	10:01
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kerio	LiraNuna: stupid idea - a speed test	10:05
kerio	and/or let the user pick	10:05
LiraNuna	letting the user pick is fine	10:06
LiraNuna	but I want an auto mode	10:06
LiraNuna	<LiraNuna> I want to switch to 'low bandwidth mode' in my app in case user's on edge	10:06
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kerio	make a speed test	10:06
kerio	my 3g connection sucks balls sometimes, so i'd appreciate low-bandwidth mode there	10:06
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LiraNuna	kerio, I'm aiming at fast startup time	10:10
LiraNuna	speed test would mean wait period	10:10
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ljrn900	ok. this kb is downright terrible	10:34
kerio	what kb?	10:37
ljrn900	n900	10:37
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ljrn900	it makes the n810 look good	10:37
kerio	i would've liked the space more centered, yeah	10:37
kerio	or you mean the on-screen keyboard?	10:38
ljrn900	i mean the hw keys	10:38
ljrn900	dont even see an osk	10:38
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arachnist	i find the hw keyboard quite comfortable	10:39
arachnist	way better than motorola droid/milestone, which is just too flat	10:40
ljrn900	its a pain	10:40
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LiraNuna	<ljrn900> it makes the n810 look good	10:47
LiraNuna	what's wrong about the N810's keyboard?	10:47
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Termana	LiraNuna, I have an n810. At first I liked it. And then I didn't. The keys are small and not responsive enough (as in they don't make a good click, down and up)	10:56
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AStorm	Termana, meh	10:58
AStorm	keys are good enough	10:58
LiraNuna	yeah, feels good to me	10:59
AStorm	my gripe is the sucky buggy software	10:59
AStorm	with no updates forthcoming	10:59
LiraNuna	and closed components :(	10:59
AStorm	those have been reverse engineered mostly	11:00
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LiraNuna	AStorm, mostly?	11:00
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LiraNuna	all I know about is wifi becoming GPL	11:01
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kerio	is there a way to access the IR port with, say, minicom?	11:53
kerio	what's the device file?	11:53
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: mva: rodald: far end RX mute usually caused by NAT or firewall issues. \|\| Interference? Don't tell me now there's GSM buzz on N900 o.O I doubt we'll find a buzzfix for this device -> http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2008-September/000603.html	11:57
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wazd	http://conversations.nokia.com/design-by-community/	11:57
wazd	and they've moved deadline again :)	11:58
kerio	can i use minicom with /dev/lirc0?	11:58
DocScrutinizer	kerio: IR is TX only (CIR aka customer IR). NO IrDA	11:58
kerio	oh :(	11:59
kerio	why is that?	11:59
DocScrutinizer	dunno. Technically because there's only an IR-LED	12:00
arachnist	speaking of the CIR	12:00
arachnist	is there any tv-remote app for n900?	12:00
kerio	arachnist: qtirreco	12:00
DocScrutinizer	IrReco	12:00
kerio	the qt version is simpler to install and easier to use	12:00
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kerio	only supports the n900 though	12:00
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pupnik_	"The fact that others may agree with my opinion is pure coincidence. I do not have the authority to speak on behalf of my client nor for myself when my wife is present." nice	12:01
arachnist	"nor for myself when my wife is present.", lol	12:02
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kerio	DocScrutinizer: what if i want to just manually send data through the IR?	12:04
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: then you send data.	12:05
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kerio	yeah but how?	12:06
kerio	sending data to /dev/lirc0?	12:06
DocScrutinizer	kerio: never tried, but yes probably	12:06
DocScrutinizer	~status	12:06
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infobot	Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer)	12:07
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DocScrutinizer	kerio: hw level it's a GPIO on SoC that directly switches on and off the IR LED. This GPIO also can be controlled my a hw counter/divider/PWM so you can generate several fixed frequency square wave patterns without cpu sw control overhead	12:11
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DocScrutinizer	~status	12:20
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infobot	Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer)	12:20
pupnik_	that design by community page is the most damning piece of evidence against design-by-community	12:22
alterego	You know, I think I understand now why iPhone and Android have had such an imact, and why Nokia are losing traction.	12:23
pupnik_	any one answer is wrong	12:23
alterego	It's all about shiny isn't it. When you buy something you want it to be the newest and the best. Nokia don't have the new shiney appeal, the just churn out extremely capable devices like water.	12:24
kerio	haha wtf dolby surround sound	12:24
alterego	Apple are all about shiney, everything they do is a reinvention of an already available technology or concept.	12:24
alterego	And Android are the new kid on the block. Which is not Apple ..	12:25
kerio	alterego: tbh, they * do* tend to reinvent it in a way that's incredibly easy to use	12:25
alterego	kerio: you mean stupid.	12:25
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alterego	They dumb things down, which works.	12:25
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kerio	well, yeah	12:25
alterego	But not for everyone, not even a majority of everyone.	12:26
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alterego	So, I'm thinking, MeeGo is Nokias new shiny. they're trying to reinvent Symbian, which will take a lot of work. As much as I dislike coding for Symbian, Nokias Series 60 is the most capable mobile OS on the market.	12:27
kerio	nah, i'm pretty sure that the majority of everyone is stupid	12:27
pupnik_	http://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/goodbye-hdmi-hello-hdbaset/ ?	12:28
alterego	But it only has 2/5 of the smart phone market, that's a fucking joke.	12:28
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pupnik_	it's not so surprising	12:29
alterego	otoh, I'm not sure I'd call iOS or even Android that smart ..	12:30
alterego	Unless we want to stick Symbian in the Super smart superlative.	12:30
pupnik_	an interesting phenomenon here is that of capturing mindshare as a new market entrant, by only offering one product instead of a palette of many	12:30
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kerio	alterego: i didn't find symbian to be that smart, btw	12:31
alterego	kerio: it's extremly smart, just really slow, not as pretty as other mobile OS' and it's API is horrible imo.	12:31
pupnik_	i am just getting used to it now - the menu-based UX is what feels old	12:31
alterego	Symbian is open, but it feels closed because the APIs are such a friggin' PITA	12:32
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kerio	i probably have the wrong impression here - the only symbian device i actually used was my 6120c	12:33
alterego	But as an OS, it's complete, proper multitasking, copy & paste, everything you'd expect from a full computer OS for phones.	12:33
kerio	i found it very fast, but not that smart	12:33
alterego	That isn't it's weakness, it's weakness is the series 60 UI sucking balls and the API	12:33
pupnik_	alterego: what would you be looking at if you were leaving symbian work?	12:33
alterego	leaving?	12:34
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pupnik_	yeah say you couldn't develop for symbian anymore	12:34
alterego	MeeGo, obviously :)	12:35
alterego	Nokia Qt SDK changes everything of course.	12:35
alterego	Symbian no longer has to be a PITA to code for.	12:35
alterego	And you've got write once.	12:35
pupnik_	yes	12:36
kerio	well, let's say one and a half	12:36
kerio	because there are differences between different devices you have to account for	12:36
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alterego	kerio: quoting the Man, "non-issue" just don't codee it that way :P	12:36
arachnist	.27	12:37
arachnist	whoops	12:37
kerio	even with proper coding, i still say 1.1 times as a best case scenario	12:37
alterego	Seriously though, Qt are doing a great job wrapping up their mobility APIs for geolocation etc.	12:37
alterego	Symbians biggest issue ahead of it is the UI. They need to completely rewrite it.	12:38
kerio	even with the best UI in the world, i'm not moving away from maemo	12:38
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alterego	Scrap Series 60 and do something new. Though, tbh, that's a mamoth task, which will break everything. Also, Symbian is supposed to replace S40 which requires no graphical acceleration.	12:40
alterego	Anyhow, I just thought I'd microblog :)	12:40
alterego	I'm pretty annoyed at the MeeGo UI, if there's one thing I love about maemo, it's the status area ..	12:41
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pupnik_	alterego: let's hope that that remains an option at least	12:42
alterego	I look at it and I get that feeling of power coming from the device. I look at the MeeGo UX and I think, why has Android and iPhones got this really ugly useless thin crappy bar at the top?	12:42
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Venemo	alterego: worst case, you just replace the mobile UX with the tablet UX, which is just pure awesomeness	12:42
alterego	:)	12:42
alterego	Venemo: and no status area :P We should work on a maemo.org MeeGo molbile UX ....	12:42
alterego	Port what we have to Qt, and make the improvements we desire.	12:43
Venemo	alterego: well, we haven't seen that much... honestly, I dunno whether there will be a status area or not	12:43
alterego	For sure, Harmattan will be a lot more Maemo than MeeGo, and the SDK should be just around the corner.	12:44
alterego	So we'll no soon enough.	12:44
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alterego	~know	12:44
infobot	hmm... know is Any fool can know, the point is to understand. - Albert Einstein	12:45
alterego	Heh	12:45
Venemo	alterego: we don't even know what MeeGo's desktop will be like	12:45
alterego	Meh	12:45
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Venemo	alterego: will there be shortcuts/widgets/contacts like in Maemo? Or multiple desktops?	12:46
Venemo	alterego: noone knows, and those who do, don't tell	12:46
alterego	I might start my own company, MeeGo customizations for large corporations. I could build locked down images for employees or something	12:46
Venemo	alterego: another worst case scenario: let's port Hildon to MeeGo :)	12:47
alterego	Or maybe apply to work for some Operator. Work on UI customisation of MeeGo for them.	12:47
alterego	Heh	12:47
alterego	Hildon should be destroyed :P	12:47
alterego	Well, some of it.	12:47
Venemo	alterego: I will miss it... I just don't think we will get all the features we like in Hildon	12:48
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lardman	morning	12:48
alterego	Guten morgan	12:48
lardman	wie geht's?	12:48
lardman	anyone here used PythonQT before?	12:49
alterego	Gute danke, und du?	12:49
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alterego	lardman: I use PySide, if that applicable ...	12:49
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lardman	hmm, probably not	12:50
lardman	I want to be able to use python as a scripting language within a C++/Qt app	12:50
alterego	Okay, anyhow, I need to shower.	12:50
lardman	cheers anyway	12:50
alterego	lardman: pretty possible	12:50
alterego	And yes, you should be able to move QObjects between environments relatively easily.	12:51
alterego	You should probably look more into QtScript though :P	12:51
lardman	that's Javascript-style stuff isn't it?	12:51
alterego	bbiab	12:51
lardman	k	12:51
alterego	Yeah, ECMA	12:51
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lardman	I'd prefer Python, as it has lots of stuff already written that can be pulled in - will explain when you get back (assuming I'm not in the shower by that point!)	12:52
mikhas	scripting language within an app? I dont think python is a good choice. consider QtScript or LUA ...	12:53
kerio	python is great!	12:54
mikhas	python envs are a pain to use, from a plugin point of view	12:54
lardman	I want people to be able to write plugins for mBarcode using Python	12:54
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mikhas	you are ready for a world of pain, I hope	12:54
Venemo	why Python?	12:54
lardman	well Python has lots of pre-written libs/packages available	12:54
mikhas	we do that with Glom, and everytime python upgrades everything breaks	12:54
lardman	effectively the only link will be for the C++ plugin manager to pass the barcode data + a window onto which to draw to the Python plugin, then it can do what it wants	12:55
lardman	mikhas: yeah, I was worried about that	12:55
mikhas	every user has a different python env, and getting the correct python path, package sites etc (consider multiple python installations on the same box) is all borken and non-standardized	12:56
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kerio	well, maemo is pretty "standard" from that point of view	12:56
kerio	there's only one user	12:56
lardman	ah, but this is only for Maemo	12:56
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lardman	I guess the other option is to pass data out of the app via DBus and let whomever capture and handle it	13:00
lardman	but that seems more messy ;)	13:00
lardman	in idea if not implementation	13:00
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kerio	lardman: mbarcode is seriously awesome	13:04
lardman	thanks, still needs some improvements though	13:05
lardman	like better working plugins	13:05
lardman	and I need to get that "Open Image" button plumbed into the gst pipeline too	13:05
lardman	:)	13:05
lardman	ah, speaking of showers, bbiab	13:06
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alterego	So mBarcode is Qt/C++?	13:16
alterego	I actually think a barcode dbus service is a great idea.	13:17
* lbt is getting pissed off at the maemo testing process		13:17
alterego	lbt: what specifically? :)	13:18
lbt	yet another "blocking vote" for a minor detail in a hyperlink which is not even part of the application.	13:18
Venemo	lbt: what's the problem?	13:18
alterego	Oh ...	13:18
lbt	My Bugtracker link goes to garage generally, it doesn't link to my app page	13:18
alterego	Stop getting pedants to vote for your app then :P	13:18
lbt	I have no say in the matter	13:19
lbt	and for both of them all their karma comes from "testing"	13:19
alterego	Sure you do, get ten people to vote before anyone else has a chance :D	13:19
Venemo	lbt: this is a well-documented requirement	13:19
Venemo	lbt: although my app misses it, too (for the time being) :P	13:19
lbt	And as noted in the comments, there's a commit in git to fix it	13:20
lbt	but 2 blocking votes ?	13:20
alterego	My bugtracker uri was my email address, then I changed it to a talk thread, version 1.0 will use bug tracker.	13:20
lbt	even worse, if you open the "about" box it has a link to the correct bug location	13:21
lbt	it's only the X-Bugtracker link in the control file that's wrong	13:21
Venemo	lbt: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugtracker	13:21
lbt	I know	13:21
Venemo	lbt: "Validity criteria for bugtrackers and bugtrackers links"	13:21
Venemo	lbt: you just have to live with it.	13:21
Venemo	lbt: what is your app, by the way?	13:21
lbt	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/shopper/0.5.12/	13:22
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alterego	lbt: I feel your pain though, extras promotion is an arduous process, but it is a necessary one imo :)	13:22
lbt	Agreed - but it's too arbitrary	13:22
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lbt	these are not "blocking" bugs	13:22
alterego	I just hate having to bump version numbers when there's a packaging problem ..	13:22
Venemo	lbt: just take it like an exam in school	13:23
Venemo	lbt: there are requirements that you must pass	13:23
lbt	there are zero bugs raised	13:23
lbt	Venemo: and we all know how useless exams are :)	13:23
alterego	Venemo: I think he gets it, he's just venting :P Whkch is p.retty reasonible.	13:23
Venemo	lbt: agreed :)	13:23
Venemo	alterego: yes, I'm just trying to console him	13:24
lbt	... cheers	13:24
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* lbt will proably be writing the QA checking code for the next builder...		13:25
lbt	I know 2 usernames that will get special attention...	13:25
crashanddie	and those are?	13:26
alterego	Hahah	13:26
alterego	Now now, no need to be nasty. :P	13:26
lardman\|afk	alterego: yep it's C underneath wrapped in Qt/C++	13:27
crashanddie	I have to say, i don't even like those kind of jokes	13:27
lbt	I do	13:27
lbt	I love 'em	13:27
lardman\|afk	lbt: that's the reason we've not pushed mBarcode back to -testing	13:27
crashanddie	well, please keep 'em private	13:27
lbt	crashanddie: nope... my purpose in life is not to make you feel better... sorry mate.	13:28
crashanddie	lbt: there's already enough rumours spreading like wildfire in the whole maemo ecosystem as to not feed the trolls even further by asserting things like that	13:28
lbt	lardman\|afk: yes... I hate it but I'm gladd I feel the pain	13:28
lbt	you need to experience this kind of thing to appreciate it	13:28
lardman\|afk	keeps you alive...? ;)	13:28
alterego	I'd like a barcode dbus service.	13:28
lbt	crashanddie: *think of the trolls" .... bwhahahaha	13:28
alterego	Something that could hook into the camera pipeline so you can run both apps at the same time.	13:29
crashanddie	lbt: yeah, because you're pretty much becoming one right there.	13:29
lardman\|afk	alterego: cool, was going to add one this afternoon (also need to work out why hildon-mime calls aren't working and it's probably dbus related)	13:29
lbt	crashanddie: uh huh....	13:29
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Venemo	bye people, I'll be afk	13:30
alterego	lardman\|afk: sweet, I'll be well interested when that's done :)	13:30
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alterego	Also, macro focus would be nice ;)	13:31
lbt	lardman\|afk: I'm thinking that down votes must have a bug# - and when that bug is closed it's removed	13:32
lbt	possibly needs some bug/test-team arbitration	13:32
alterego	lbt: that's a good idea, but just because the bug is fixed in vcs, doesn'tmean it's available in the version in testing.	13:33
lbt	alterego: nod ... needs linking up	13:33
alterego	That's why you need to bump version number and repromote ...	13:33
alterego	Which means testing again ..	13:34
lbt	alterego: we need a way for the devs to say "only bugfixes" or similar	13:34
alterego	This is why, generally. I go through the testing process myself in devel before I promote.	13:34
lbt	there are elements of dev responsibility	13:34
alterego	lbt: that isn't guaranteed though, a bug fix may introduce another bug. and unless testers look at the code and convince themselves there's nothing wrong with it then sure, they can change the vote.	13:35
lbt	Need to keep an eye on the objective though	13:35
alterego	However, bugs to do with debian packaging should be not part of that.	13:35
lbt	yes, there are blocking bugs	13:36
lbt	the point being there should be a high hurdle	13:36
alterego	lbt: being too pragmatic makes us lazy and error prone. All code modifications should be properly QA tested to ensure they're reliable.	13:36
crashanddie	lbt: how about a system that would put the thumb down "up for testing" by someone else?	13:36
lbt	but passing that means a lower hurdle for reported fixes	13:36
alterego	But your issue is packaging, not code. And that pisses me off :)	13:36
crashanddie	lbt: assuming that the thumb down had a bug# attached to it, and the bug has been marked fixed	13:37
lbt	crashanddie: that's the kind of thing I mean	13:37
crashanddie	k	13:37
alterego	Packaging fixes should NOT require a new f*ing release :)	13:37
crashanddie	lbt: that would indeed be pretty good	13:37
crashanddie	alterego: is there no -sub-sub-sub-micro-packaging version number?	13:37
crashanddie	alterego: version1.3-2-maemo-1928?	13:38
alterego	crashanddie: probably.	13:38
lbt	the problem with the micro release idea is the same one	13:38
lbt	you have to trust to "no abuse"	13:38
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crashanddie	lbt: or enforce no binary changes	13:39
lbt	scripts? typos?	13:39
crashanddie	are those packaging issues?	13:39
lbt	postinst?	13:39
crashanddie	I don't really see those as packaging issues	13:39
MohammadAG51	packaging issues? where?	13:40
alterego	bbl	13:40
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crashanddie	lbt: they are problems that can happen to anyone, and we need QA to ensure that indeed the correct file will be placed at the correct place. Dev machines often have so many files in so many different directories that a lone forgotten hardcoded path will not bork the application on the dev machine, but will die instantly on a QA machine	13:40
crashanddie	lbt: as such, these are things that need to be QA'd properly as much as the next thing.	13:41
lbt	yes. I used to keep a "clean" verision of Diablo to test install into	13:41
lbt	but it's hard	13:41
lbt	MeeGo may make that easier	13:41
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lcuk	morning \o	13:42
* lbt ignores lcuk pointedly		13:42
kerio	morning!	13:43
* lcuk wont share bacon butties with you then :p		13:43
lbt	<sniff>	13:43
lbt	you'd think you could count on your mates to test your app for you ;)	13:44
lcuk	well wheres the test url	13:44
lbt	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/shopper/0.5.12/	13:45
lbt	:)	13:45
* lbt has been ranting about the QA process		13:45
crashanddie	lcuk: can I have one?	13:46
onion	lbt: it's a bit sucky, yes	13:46
lbt	we have this cool BOSS system for MeeGo which I hope will make refining the process easier	13:47
* lcuk has been sleeping		13:47
lbt	that's allowed in this heat	13:47
lcuk	testing should still be something done on the machine itself	13:47
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lbt	? it is	13:47
lbt	ah	13:47
lbt	BOSS isn't a testing system	13:47
lbt	it's a workflow system	13:47
lbt	so it means you can add steps into it in a really easy way	13:48
lcuk	the voting/rating aspect at least	13:48
lcuk	btw, cant get stroke gestures to totally work	13:48
lbt	why?	13:49
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lbt	I've heard others say that ... on mine they're almost perfect	13:49
lbt	I don't know if it's technique	13:49
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lcuk	because when shopping you strike something out, it doesnt just adjust tick at left hand side - it crosses the line out - strikethrough font attribute perhaps :P	13:50
lbt	?	13:50
lbt	it changes the font but not the tickbox?	13:51
lcuk	if you start a left->right stroke over the tickbox it does not tick the iten	13:51
lbt	ah... yes	13:52
lbt	well, that's a design decision	13:52
lbt	tick boxes are for clicking	13:52
lbt	not stroking	13:52
lcuk	and if you end a left <- right stroke too far (stroke off the edge of screen) it doesnt untick	13:52
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lcuk	lbt eep in portrait mode for the list - if you click the combo box to select option group (everything/dairy/frozen/veg/shoes etc (tracy will love you!) and select its not in portrait anymore	13:56
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lbt	lcuk: that's Qt	13:57
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lbt	it's intermittent though	13:57
lcuk	lol im shaking device like its got stuck :D	13:58
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lcuk	lbt - perhaps you could add option in prefs for rotation - landscape/portrait/auto like other apps ?	13:59
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lbt	I had that - but I thought 'auto' was the style guide	14:00
MohammadAG51	imo there should be something like what the iPhone has	14:00
lbt	yeah, in portrait mode it's a simpler UI	14:00
MohammadAG51	auto unless otherwise stated using "orientation lock"	14:00
MohammadAG51	controlled in the app switcher	14:00
lbt	MohammadAG51: and is that a per-app thing or a device thing	14:00
lbt	yes	14:00
MohammadAG51	device thing	14:00
MohammadAG51	make mce stop polling the accelerometer so the app doesn't detect portrait/landscape mode	14:01
lbt	I'm trying not to "add options".... just "do the right thing"	14:01
MohammadAG51	hmm	14:01
MohammadAG51	i saw qwerty12 post something on that	14:01
MohammadAG51	maybe it can be made into a status menu applet	14:01
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lcuk	lbt - i have voted since the points raised are not issues with your app :) its borne in qt so very hard to break	14:02
lcuk	and does mention tracy explicitly	14:02
lcuk	:D	14:02
lbt	heh :)	14:03
lcuk	she can install it on hers	14:03
lcuk	lbt - why the specific reference to xrandr?	14:03
lbt	it did rotation on the 810	14:03
lbt	it had an explicit rotate button	14:04
lcuk	and i know you have meat aisle - but why list HAM as dependency	14:04
lcuk	ahhhhhahhhhhahhhhhhhhhhh	14:04
lbt	and it also had a "left handed" mode	14:04
lcuk	oooh	14:04
lbt	sadly the N900 is handist	14:04
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lcuk	does left handed mode effect the number of bars shown on n900?	14:04
lbt	it cetainly saw that problem coming!	14:05
lcuk	hah	14:05
lcuk	btw, i want a portrait stand!	14:05
lcuk	ive got one of Fakes' laser cut one	14:05
* lbt still wants a stand that works		14:05
lcuk	but i want a portrait version	14:05
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lcuk	morning crashanddie, yes ill make you a bacon buttie	14:07
* lcuk had bacon last night for first time in ages		14:07
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crashanddie	thank you lcuk	14:08
crashanddie	chem\|st: you a mod in general?	14:09
pupnik_	i need a bacon sofa	14:12
lcuk	pupnik_, that would be a false economy - you would have nowhere to sit afte ra while	14:13
lcuk	much better to sit on live pigs	14:13
lcuk	they would keep you warm	14:13
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pupnik_	hmm	14:14
pupnik_	genetically engineered animal furniture	14:14
pupnik_	'for the man who has everything'	14:15
lcuk	and if you train them right, you could get them to walk you to your office etc	14:15
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pupnik_	plus when the pillows got too soft you could fry them on the grill	14:16
AStorm	pupnik_, chairdogs?	14:16
AStorm	it's already been invented, but never produced	14:17
pupnik_	:)	14:17
AStorm	remember you have to feed them every so often	14:17
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AStorm	oh and trim the hair	14:19
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pupnik_	imitation leather with a chemically intert matrix supporting, say, plant cells building a soft hair folicle. by changing the seed cells and nutrient mix you could get different 'furs' for your sofa.	14:23
pupnik_	would at least be a nice touch for a sci-fi setting	14:24
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crashanddie	lcuk: I think we used to use horses	14:25
crashanddie	lcuk: they give milk, go fast, and you can even eat them	14:25
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pupnik_	<geek>that's why you see em in 'Firefly'</geek>	14:27
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crashanddie	who in this channel has ever owned a horse?	14:27
* crashanddie raises hand		14:28
pupnik_	i've sprayed a couple with a garden hose but they didn't like it	14:28
Ikarus	I've eaten them	14:28
kerio	Ikarus: om nom nom	14:29
lcuk	pupnik_, would take a while to regrow new surface	14:29
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lcuk	and the days after you would get stubble burn	14:29
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loufoque_	why is OMWeather getting updated every other day?	14:30
pupnik_	lcuk: trying to imagine what the simplest, first 'biological fabrics' might look like	14:31
lcuk	isnt cotton a biological fabric?	14:31
pupnik_	not alive	14:31
lcuk	or fur	14:31
lcuk	or leather	14:31
loufoque_	cotton is very much alive	14:31
pupnik_	sorry, the name was a poor choice	14:31
loufoque_	it's just vegetal	14:31
lcuk	ohh actual adaptable real organics	14:31
lcuk	get worker ants	14:32
heoa	trying to sep up n810 as low-power file-server. Anyone knows microUSB-RJ45 conversion adapter?	14:32
lcuk	to build a mesh	14:32
loufoque_	heoa: use your computer as a bridge,	14:32
loufoque_	?	14:32
lcuk	heoa, hmmm when i did usb host stuff on 810 - i just used my nokia adapter and a female-female dongle	14:32
lcuk	to give me a regular usb port to plug stuff into	14:33
heoa	loufoque_: not possible, the comp uses too much watts ---> trying to get low-power	14:33
lcuk	same principle is being looked at to work also on n900 :D	14:33
kerio	heoa: wifi?	14:33
lcuk	kerio, wifi file servers arent as fast	14:33
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lcuk	usb == faster than wifi	14:33
kerio	good point	14:33
kerio	heoa: http://www.plugcomputer.org/	14:34
lcuk	but if your machines being served are on wifi it would work	14:34
pupnik_	http://www.gsm-technology.com/index.php/en_US,details,id_pr,7216,menu_mode,categories.html heh	14:34
pupnik_	microusb-rj45	14:35
lcuk	lololol http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/video-technology-confirms-england-are-very-bad-at-football-201006282855/	14:35
kerio	pupnik_: is there a way to get that working on the n900?	14:35
kerio	possibly with power-over-ethernet	14:36
chem\|st	crash me is S-Mod	14:36
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pupnik_	i suspect only with usb chipsets that support acting like ethernet endpoints	14:36
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kerio	:(	14:36
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pupnik_	http://www.google.com/search?q=USB-RJ45+adapter	14:37
kerio	nokia should've added that	14:37
kerio	also usb on the go	14:37
kerio	:(	14:37
pupnik_	http://www.amazon.com/AGILER-RJ45-ADAPTER-NETWORK-COMPUTER/dp/B000BL3M3U	14:37
kerio	DAMN YOU NOKIA!	14:37
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lcuk	kerio, relax a bit	14:38
loufoque_	lcuk: this doesn't make any sense at all.	14:38
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lcuk	loufoque_, what doesnt	14:40
lcuk	everything i say makes sense	14:40
lcuk	apart from the bits which dont	14:40
kerio	lcuk: the lack of usb-on-the-go is disappointing :(	14:40
pupnik_	i don't see why that device from amazon.com couldn't work with a n800/n810	14:40
pupnik_	lcuk: any thoughts?	14:40
pupnik_	i might prefer this arrangement for myself	14:40
loufoque_	lcuk: the link you gave	14:40
lcuk	kerio, really - let me be totally honest here - usb otg on the n810 was used for what?	14:41
kerio	pupnik_: is it supported by linux?	14:41
pupnik_	yes	14:41
lcuk	it looks like we will have usb host mode soon	14:41
kerio	lcuk: connecting pen drives	14:41
loufoque_	does N900 do host mode,	14:41
loufoque_	?	14:41
jacekowski	yes	14:41
jacekowski	with some hacking	14:41
kerio	loufoque_: not yet	14:41
jacekowski	but yes	14:41
lcuk	loufoque_, there are general hacks in place and discussion ongoing about activating properly, yes	14:41
pupnik_	only for kids who finish their plate	14:41
lcuk	kerio, usb host mode would do that	14:42
lcuk	OTG is different	14:42
loufoque_	what's usb on-the-go?	14:43
lcuk	i am wanting a working host mode on n900 for arduino hacking purposes	14:43
Ikarus	lcuk: nice that you want it	14:43
kerio	lcuk: well, usb otg allows for simpler configuration at least	14:43
lcuk	OTG is a variation on the USB spec designed for specific low powered devices to communicate and talk "on the go"	14:43
Ikarus	you can't have it right now	14:43
lcuk	Ikarus, sure, but its better to desire something achievable than to go for something thats all but ruled out	14:44
lcuk	mind you, an uphill climb is fun sometimes ;)	14:45
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lcuk	especially when you get to the top and can ski-glide your way back down	14:45
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* lcuk kicks portrait rotated transitions		14:47
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lcuk	damn things dont work when i use high level dynamic rotation patch	14:47
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kerio	lcuk: i want a status area switcher between usb host and usb... the opposite of host	14:47
kerio	guest?	14:47
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lcuk	kerio, the UI ontop of the kernel patch is tiny - the guys are still trying to sort out and mature the kernel patch at the moment	14:48
jacekowski	kerio: peripherial	14:49
jacekowski	kerio: and i want a blowjob	14:49
lcuk	thanks jacekowski	14:49
lcuk	not for the bj comment	14:49
lcuk	you wont get one of those here	14:49
jacekowski	i was thinking that we were saying our wishes	14:49
kerio	jacekowski: craigslist.org	14:50
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lcuk	perhaps we need a pelvic thrust alarm app for n900	14:51
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lcuk	"ALERT ALERT USER IS FAPPING"	14:51
kerio	lcuk: let's do the time warp again	14:51
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pupnik_	hmm, one could track employees not being at certain stations nicely with a n900	14:53
lcuk	pupnik_, gps doesnt work nicely indoors	14:53
lcuk	never has, never will	14:53
MohammadAG51	always does here	14:53
lcuk	otherwise i would agree	14:53
pupnik_	oh true enough	14:53
lcuk	MohammadAG51, you are barely indoors to the sorts of levels lots of employees are	14:54
lcuk	big multistorey buildings etc	14:54
kerio	MohammadAG51: what's your job?	14:54
lcuk	"layabout"	14:54
kerio	lol	14:54
lcuk	MohammadAG51, some people dont have real windows to look out of	14:54
* lcuk misses the window he used to look out of at old job :) i hope when i get in next office i have a view		14:55
MohammadAG51	lcuk, you said indoors, you didn't specift what type of building	14:55
lcuk	true	14:55
lcuk	ok, it works sometimes	14:55
MohammadAG51	:P	14:55
lcuk	but not reproducably	14:55
MohammadAG51	kerio, am I allowed to work?	14:55
* ptl does not have any real windows on the building where he works		14:55
kerio	MohammadAG51: dunno	14:56
kerio	i don't work	14:56
* ptl works at late night, from 0:00 to 08:00... And this is good in one point of view		14:56
* ptl never knows if it's night or day there		14:56
MohammadAG51	synaptics compiled with no problems, weird...	14:56
lcuk	some basement dwellers also never see sunlight	14:56
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ptl	Does Droid X's lack of physical keyboard means the Death of physical keyboard on all mobiles?	14:57
ptl	*mean	14:57
lcuk	pupnik_, i will have my network running a daemon soon enough	14:57
lcuk	so when i walk in wifi zone it will sync everything	14:57
MohammadAG51	ptl, if Droid\ X = all\ mobiles; echo yes	14:58
MohammadAG51	else; echo no	14:58
lcuk	ptl, portrait maemo even has trouble using keyboard	14:58
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ptl	MohammadAG51: it's just because its predecessor, Motorola Droid, had on the finest keyboards of all mobiles...	14:58
lcuk	except as a 6 bar chord	14:58
ptl	MohammadAG51: that must mean something	14:58
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ptl	lcuk: I was thinking about landscape mode physical keyboards...	14:59
lcuk	up page, down page, autoscroll on/off, change book	14:59
pupnik_	lcuk: what do you mean by 'daemon'?	14:59
arachnist	ptl: the motorola droid/milestone had one of the most horrible keywords i've ever seen/tried	14:59
lcuk	well are devices going to have multiple keyboards	14:59
arachnist	damn thing is completly flat	14:59
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MohammadAG51	ptl, finest? keyboard?	14:59
ptl	arachnist: you think? I found it very comfortable and agile.	14:59
lcuk	ptl i use my n900 portrait keyboard in an odd orientation	14:59
arachnist	ptl: my fingers slipped in it	14:59
lcuk	when bookreading theres 4/6 buttons down the left hand side	15:00
ptl	ok ok ok, so it's not unanimous :P	15:00
arachnist	s/in/on/	15:00
infobot	arachnist meant: ptl: my fongers slipped in it	15:00
lcuk	with nice knighrider lights	15:00
arachnist	infobot: you got it wrong	15:00
* lcuk nods @ MohammadAG51		15:00
lcuk	i want to stick an overlay over the keyboard actually	15:00
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lcuk	like old skool Function key overlays DOS apps had :D	15:01
ptl	Well, at least the N900's keyboard you guys consider OK?	15:01
lcuk	but stick over the physical keyboard to allow bookreader real buttons :D	15:01
ptl	Which physical keyboard would be the best one of the mobiles?	15:01
MohammadAG51	the N97's keyboard was better tbh	15:01
asj_	ptl: it could be improved, but it's fine	15:01
lcuk	ptl surprisingly i liked the n810 keys	15:01
tuliobaars	Hey	15:01
MohammadAG51	but i type faster on the N900's keyboard	15:01
asj_	MohammadAG51: I don't like the n97 key field, but the size and space was better	15:01
Ikarus	lcuk: hehehe	15:01
heoa	http://www.industrialethernet.com/net232-dte.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=IO+net232&utm_term=rs232+to+rj45&gclid=CM_Wrrqhz6ICFc2S3wodbiMjzA http://www.sureelectronics.net/goods.php?id=393 <<--- with them n810 to low-power file-server?	15:01
Ikarus	lcuk: the keyboard is replacable on the N900 with some effort	15:02
ptl	I type quite fast on the N900 keyboard also	15:02
tuliobaars	Finally someone talkin' about some good things about the N810!	15:02
Ikarus	lcuk: also, you can split the spacebar in two	15:02
lcuk	lol Ikarus i wouldnt like the effort	15:02
lcuk	just a clip on would suffice	15:02
MohammadAG51	yeah, the space bar is two buttons	15:02
MohammadAG51	for some reason	15:02
lcuk	Ikarus, we have control of the 6 LEDs under the keys	15:02
asj_	lcuk: that's what she said ;)	15:02
lcuk	and grouped together with a cluster of keys nearest each light is a cool way to get input	15:02
lcuk	so you dont aim for a single key but an area	15:03
kerio	so the space key is actually two keys?	15:03
kerio	can you get the two separately?	15:03
ptl	Motorola backflip also has a nice keyboard	15:03
ptl	the keys are quite large	15:03
lcuk	dunno kerio will test	15:03
MohammadAG51	yes kerio	15:03
lcuk	but Ikarus says so	15:04
MohammadAG51	kerio, press in the middle part of the spacebar	15:04
MohammadAG51	you'll hear two clicks	15:04
MohammadAG51	that's the easiest test	15:04
kerio	yeah but can you get the two keys separately?	15:04
kerio	because i'd like an extra key	15:04
* lcuk gives kerio a key		15:04
MohammadAG51	oh, I think they send the same button	15:04
lcuk	i think it was for my bike lock when i was younger	15:05
MohammadAG51	lol	15:05
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pupnik_	what's a good non-destructive (open-source) mp3 editor?	15:07
MohammadAG51	/usr/local/sbin/synaptic: error while loading shared libraries: libapt-inst-libc6.5-6.so.1.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory	15:07
MohammadAG51	argh	15:08
lcuk	pupnik_, regarding daemon question, running liqbasey stuff on my master machine and connecting to other instances when they are on the same wifi hotspot	15:08
asj_	pupnik_: you can't edit mp3, you can move/cut frames, but you have to convert to basicallt wav to edit it	15:08
pupnik_	oh neat	15:09
kerio	pupnik_: audacity	15:09
pupnik_	it can edit mp3s without re-encoding?	15:09
kerio	don't think so	15:09
asj_	pupnik_: nothing can	15:09
pupnik_	wrong	15:10
pupnik_	mp3directcut for e.g.	15:10
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tuliobaars	in scratchbox, where i can select the target(ARMEL):	15:10
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asj_	pupnik_: oh for fuck sake, did you read what I just wrote?	15:11
lcuk	asj_, it used to be said that jpeg could not be edited losslessly	15:11
tuliobaars	for me:	15:11
kerio	you can cut it, you can probably join them, but you can't edit them without recompression	15:11
lcuk	but then people realised you could rotate the macroblocks and actually losslessly rotate images	15:12
pupnik_	in some ways linux is dazzingly out-of-date	15:12
asj_	lcuk: or you can just set the rotation in the metadata. Same with mp3 effectively, you can cut frames, set audio gain levels in the id3	15:12
lcuk	ok asj_ so thats lossless editing - do any apps do it?	15:13
pupnik_	asj, as a favor, i did re-read it, and it hasn't gotten any righter. :)	15:13
asj_	lcuk: I don't really consider playing with metadata to be editing though	15:13
lcuk	(since you just said it wasnt possible :P)	15:13
pupnik_	http://mpesch3.de1.cc/mp3dc.html	15:13
kerio	pupnik_: yeah...	15:14
kerio	Non-destructive cut, copy, paste	15:14
kerio	that's what we've been selling	15:14
kerio	er	15:14
kerio	saying	15:14
* kerio is tired		15:14
pupnik_	Volume change, fade, normalize, pause detection	15:14
pupnik_	don't abuse 'we'	15:14
kerio	not lossless	15:14
lcuk	fade would be destructive	15:14
pupnik_	wrong	15:14
kerio	You can directly cut, copy, paste or change the volume with no need to decompress your files for audio editing.	15:14
kerio	fading requires reencoding	15:14
asj_	pupnik_: if you already know everything why ask? :)	15:14
lcuk	global volume of varying along the track?	15:14
lcuk	asj_, conversation	15:15
pupnik_	you can globally adjust volume of a frame without time_domain->frequency_domain->time_domain	15:15
lcuk	and finding alternatives	15:15
pupnik_	er other way round	15:15
MohammadAG51	hmm	15:15
MohammadAG51	synaptics runs	15:15
pupnik_	freq-time-freq	15:15
asj_	anyways, you can do all this in linux	15:15
kerio	that's not editing the audio btw	15:15
MohammadAG51	should i package it properly and push to -devel?	15:15
ptl	there's audacity to N900	15:16
lcuk	how do you install a package manager application without a package manager :P	15:16
ptl	*for the	15:16
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ptl	lcuk: untar it then dpkg -i it?	15:16
lcuk	shhh :p	15:16
pupnik_	for content creators: if you record a lot of audio for any purpose, you're going to want to be able to edit that quickly and sanely - not transcoding to wav and writing to giant files	15:16
* lcuk ponders such silly things - itsl ike self compiling compilers		15:17
MohammadAG51	<lcuk> how do you install a package manager application without a package manager :P	15:17
asj_	there's a tool call mp3cut that's Xaw based to cut and I think paste mp3 frames, it's ancient, almost pointless and not maintained, and of couse there's a pick of command line toold for gain	15:17
MohammadAG51	apt-get	15:17
MohammadAG51	:)	15:17
ptl	apt-get is a package manager	15:17
lcuk	but when apt-get was being written (and dpkg it uses)..	15:17
pupnik_	hmm forgot about that one asj_ ty	15:18
kerio	./configure && make && sudo make install	15:18
asj_	pupnik_: as a content creator, and someone who's been doing huge audio weekly for years 1gig isn't bit anymore, and you want find grained control like audacity since you're probably multitracking it anyways	15:18
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MohammadAG51	lcuk, see how debootstrap works :)	15:19
MohammadAG51	yay	15:19
MohammadAG51	synaptics works great	15:19
lcuk	cool	15:20
MohammadAG51	aptitude segfaulted	15:20
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MohammadAG51	guess i'll have to dump aptitude and 'work' on synaptics	15:20
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asj_	I would really like a good id3v2 editor for n900, the existing one is good for artwork, sucky for tags, I command someone! fix it! ;)	15:21
MohammadAG51	mussorgsky's good imo	15:21
asj_	MohammadAG51: it's missing tags	15:21
* lcuk puts his arms out wide, calls out to the god of linux to come swooping down and kick asj_'s ass for assuming they are his personal army		15:22
asj_	lcuk: what else are they? ;)	15:22
lcuk	start building it and speccing it out and others will join	15:22
asj_	lcuk: i wish that worked for the less glamouress ideas	15:22
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lcuk	it works for any idea if you are determined enough	15:23
asj_	MohammadAG51: for example it can't change genra	15:23
lcuk	today, i am mostly fixing up issues in liqbase whilst writing a spec for something	15:24
* lcuk will be >>> #liqbase		15:24
asj_	but mossorgky's ui and ideas are great, I love how when you select a field it shows you all fields that already exist	15:24
asj_	anyways, bed time	15:25
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pupnik_	i wish i had an 'energy pedometer' for all the subunits in my device	15:33
pupnik_	so i could track how much i use over time in terms of backlight vs cpu, etc	15:33
pupnik_	give me a team of college interns :P	15:33
lcuk	pupnik_, needs to know the energy consumption estimate for each component - SpeedEvil is working on such a thing - then based on reading the levels of each can guestimate how much the rest is doing	15:34
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SpeedEvil	pupnik_: you know about the bq thing?	15:36
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SpeedEvil	http://www.mauve.plus.com/bat.tar.gz - originally a script from ShadowJK - to show battery state	15:36
SpeedEvil	every 5s with -r	15:36
pupnik_	yeah ain't it great	15:37
pupnik_	now a little pedometer with history	15:37
pupnik_	and status reports for community/nokia (time of day, agv use of diff components)	15:37
SpeedEvil	yeah	15:37
SpeedEvil	that part is hard	15:37
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SpeedEvil	I'm working on it - but life is getting in the way.	15:38
lcuk	hmm SpeedEvil ?	15:38
lcuk	why hard	15:38
SpeedEvil	average use of diff components	15:38
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SpeedEvil	Last second, the average current was 340mA - say.	15:38
lcuk	ahh yeah from that side - i thought you meant the uploading side	15:38
SpeedEvil	The backlight was on - that's trivial.	15:38
SpeedEvil	how do you allocate the remaining 100% of CPU to processes - that's again fairly easy	15:39
ShadowJK	it's always last 5.12 seconds too	15:39
SpeedEvil	by CPU time	15:39
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: I'm unsure it's a simple unfiltered sample	15:39
pupnik_	well i imagine it would be in our and nokias interests to collect some voluntary usage data	15:39
lcuk	SpeedEvil, if it was liqbase	15:39
tremby	hi, folks. i just tried to update my n900 and i got this http://sprunge.us/RALf -- account-plugin-salut is giving errors	15:39
lcuk	mostly i could tell based on what i was drawing in those timeslices	15:39
pupnik_	maybe issue each reporter a key, to help filter out spam/trash	15:39
SpeedEvil	pupnik_: Then - how do you allocate the remaining power against processes?	15:40
SpeedEvil	pupnik_: For example - you may have to look at per-process net access - which there is no record of.	15:40
lcuk	SpeedEvil, last 5 seconds were spent rendering 34 frames of bookreader	15:40
SpeedEvil	pupnik_: Or you might want to track who activated the GPS	15:40
SpeedEvil	Or ...	15:40
pupnik_	there's no point generating artificial numbers really. if something is aggregated in the remainder, just give a help screen showing what it includes	15:40
pupnik_	oh i see	15:40
ShadowJK	I don't think I've ever seen more than about 350mA use with screen at middle setting and CPU use at 100%..	15:40
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SpeedEvil	The ideal is powertop.	15:40
SpeedEvil	But sorted by actual power usage.	15:41
SpeedEvil	wakeups is at best a poor metric.	15:41
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ShadowJK	Nah, it's excellent for figuring out power use during idle	15:41
SpeedEvil	(the intel powertop)	15:41
ShadowJK	Not useful at all for measuring non-standby use	15:41
SpeedEvil	It's really not.	15:41
SpeedEvil	yeah	15:41
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SpeedEvil	for anything but absolutely idle, it's not much use	15:42
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SpeedEvil	The power usage of something that wakes every second can vary dramatically, for reasons I've not nailed down	15:42
pupnik_	so users might want useful estimates of more detailed per-process power use, numbers which may or may not be useful to developers.	15:42
lcuk	how well do desktop widgets currently track usage	15:42
SpeedEvil	lcuk: not at all.	15:42
SpeedEvil	They're all lumped in with hildon-desktop	15:42
lcuk	or rather, their visible state - if i have an rss widget thats on a different desktop	15:43
SpeedEvil	which sucks	15:43
SpeedEvil	oh	15:43
lcuk	does it refresh its contents	15:43
SpeedEvil	nvm	15:43
SpeedEvil	I was meaning wrt powertop	15:43
lcuk	even if x11 then does not show the results	15:43
lcuk	you could hook into x11 to see whats changing its ui	15:43
lcuk	would not be perfect	15:43
lcuk	but would give indication of whats working	15:43
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SpeedEvil	Generally the more you hook into, the more your power use	15:44
DocScrutinizer	lol	15:44
lcuk	agreed	15:44
DocScrutinizer	use batgraph to discharge battery	15:44
lcuk	but this is for monitoring	15:44
SpeedEvil	lcuk: On the other side - it can be hard to disentangle the usage from monitoring from real.	15:45
lcuk	schrodingers box app	15:45
kerio	heh	15:45
SpeedEvil	lcuk: In many ways - when the backlight or wifi or ... is active.	15:45
lcuk	you cannot tell how much battery it will use until you open the app	15:45
DocScrutinizer	hehe	15:45
SpeedEvil	You - almost - don't care about what else the app does.	15:45
lcuk	and when you open it, the battery will be alive or dead	15:45
DocScrutinizer	mostly dead	15:46
DocScrutinizer	after you opened it	15:46
DocScrutinizer	maybe was alive before you did	15:46
lcuk	oh owwwww jesus i just cvrushed one of my knackers	15:46
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* SpeedEvil passes lcuk a couple of bricks.		15:46
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crashanddie	chem\|st: cool. Then go moderator general, it's chaos in there	15:47
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kerio	sticky modifiers are weird	15:48
kerio	shift+è is mapped to the dead accent	15:48
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kerio	yet, if i type shift and then è, i get È	15:49
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jacekowski	what are you discussing now?	15:49
D-Iivil	Hola!	15:49
jacekowski	power consumption by specific apps?	15:49
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DocScrutinizer	the whole sticky keys part is completely borked	15:50
* crashanddie is tempted to ask for mod status again		15:50
crashanddie	though, being able to shout at people without thinking about the other mod's reputation is good, too.	15:51
crashanddie	Maybe we should just need an admin account for moderation...	15:51
jacekowski	pay lot of cash to somebody	15:51
D-Iivil	What should I do to be able to build packages straight on my N900? Already installed build-essential -package, but dpkg-buildpackage gives me errors pointing to rules-file?	15:51
jacekowski	and you might get ir	15:51
jacekowski	it*	15:51
D-Iivil	Same package builds nicely on scratchbox	15:52
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crashanddie	jacekowski: nha, getting mod status isn't a problem I believe	15:52
lcuk	D-Iivil, its a shame dpkg-buildpackage doesnt totally work	15:52
jacekowski	crashanddie: i was thinking the same about my visa	15:52
lcuk	i think mostly its gnutools that require it	15:52
lcuk	i once walked through the process	15:52
crashanddie	D-Iivil: it's an issue on the device, compilation works fine, but package building is pretty hardcore	15:52
lcuk	a maemo specific dpkg-buildpagage would be AWESOME	15:52
jacekowski	crashanddie: and you see how it worked ou	15:52
jacekowski	out*	15:52
crashanddie	jacekowski: true	15:52
D-Iivil	Aah.. okay then :/	15:52
chem\|st	crashanddie: thanks for the hint... Captain Obvious	15:52
lcuk	D-Iivil, hold on though ive got some links	15:53
crashanddie	chem\|st: anytime :P	15:53
lcuk	http://madabar.com/techblog/2007/08/12/how-to-create-a-deb-package-for-maemo-without-scratchbox/	15:53
chem\|st	sometimes I think the others just delete spam...	15:53
lcuk	damn whos been nicking my bookmarks	15:53
lcuk	i had a bunch of them together	15:53
lcuk	khertan has pypackager	15:53
lcuk	which does same but packing up only small simple python apps	15:54
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lcuk	i think it would be feasible to do	15:54
chem\|st	crashanddie: you should go for it, I honestly did not understand why you quit in the first place	15:54
lcuk	just takes going through dpkg and altering its scripts	15:54
crashanddie	chem\|st: because of geneven	15:54
lcuk	to use either maemo specifics or gnu tools	15:54
lcuk	in new locations	15:55
chem\|st	crashanddie: thats a person and not a reason	15:55
Macer	haha	15:55
Macer	chem\|st: some people quit being german because of hitler	15:55
chem\|st	it's a simple rule! If it gets personal ask someone else to take over if they don't by themself	15:56
crashanddie	Macer: godwin's law	15:56
chem\|st	Macer: godwin's!	15:56
chem\|st	doh you've been faster	15:56
crashanddie	that's what she said	15:56
crashanddie	no wait, that's not a good thing.	15:57
Termana	lol	15:57
Macer	:)	15:57
Macer	how is n900 meego going?	15:57
chem\|st	Macer: what did you want to tell?	15:57
Macer	what did i want to tell?	15:58
D-Iivil	lcuk, thanks. Will read it later :) Actually I just want to create source packages for autobuilder on the go :P	15:58
lcuk	D-Iivil, indeed - me too	15:58
lcuk	i build on device often	15:58
lcuk	and being able to do so would allow development from any os	15:58
lcuk	with just an editor and a console on the remote end	15:58
Macer	lcuk: sounds slow	15:58
lcuk	everything can be done with ssh :)	15:58
chem\|st	Macer: you tried to point a saver argument but forgot about godwin, so you compare geneve with hitler?	15:58
D-Iivil	lcuk, exactly!	15:59
lcuk	Macer, normal developer apps are small	15:59
lcuk	liqflow builds from source on my n900 in less than 10 seconds	15:59
D-Iivil	Well. Gotta go now, cya later :)	15:59
Macer	chem\|st: you said that is a person and not a reason	15:59
lcuk	and if i just edit a couple of source files rebuilding is <3seconds	15:59
Macer	people can be reasons :)	15:59
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Macer	lcuk: i tried usimg mencoder on the n900	15:59
Macer	talk about not worth it :)	16:00
MohammadAG51	lol	16:00
Macer	i thought it woud get better than 2fps	16:00
chem\|st	Macer: the people didn't quit because of hitler	16:00
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lcuk	they quit because they forgot to put towel on their house	16:01
lcuk	and someone else got their before them	16:01
Macer	chem\|st: heh. ok. well. dont really want to discuss metaphorical hitler.	16:01
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lcuk	actually - in an all german hotel, is there a race at sunset to place towels for the next day	16:01
Macer	you should be able to understand the point	16:01
chem\|st	Macer: ;) metaphorical hitler is a reason ;)	16:01
chem\|st	lcuk: that can be an all british, netherlandish or anything hotel...	16:02
chem\|st	the race does depend on the people not the country they are from	16:03
SpeedEvil	Macer: it does - in some cases	16:03
DocScrutinizer	as long as enough of them are Germans :-P	16:03
SpeedEvil	mencoder that is	16:03
DocScrutinizer	you'll see the towel-race	16:04
Macer	SpeedEvil: im sure but i was scaling down a 720p video to n900 size	16:04
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: ??	16:04
lcuk	chem\|st, german tourists are known for their towel antics, just as english tourists are known for their boozing etc	16:04
Macer	it didnt go too well :)	16:04
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lcuk	DocScrutinizer, its an amusing trait	16:05
chem\|st	lcuk: I was in a 99% british hotel and the towel race was just the same	16:05
lcuk	yeah, the 1% germans would get all the seats otherwise :p	16:05
chem\|st	stereotypes do meet for the loudest but not in general	16:05
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: LOL	16:06
lcuk	chem\|st, sure	16:06
chem\|st	lcuk: actually we have been the only german couple there and we didn't go for it...	16:06
lcuk	tis just a bit of light hearted banted	16:06
lcuk	banter	16:06
chem\|st	;)	16:06
lcuk	hahaha chem\|st	16:06
lcuk	so what tactics did you use	16:07
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chem\|st	history class in yorkshire told me that for all bad that happened to the brits the germans are held responsible	16:07
lcuk	also, its more defined in hotels where beachfront loungers are in short supply	16:07
DocScrutinizer	I like to wait for them at the bar, and laugh at them as I'm drunk while they don't get a seat - well that's what I'd like to do	16:07
lcuk	tats the wrong way round	16:07
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lcuk	lol DocScrutinizer	16:08
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chem\|st	lcuk: it's more like if the people are between 40 and 60 years old you get that race no matter where they are from	16:08
lcuk	chem\|st, thats a reasonable assessment	16:09
lcuk	and the upper age bracket have weapons	16:09
lcuk	"you young'uns come near my lounger .o/	16:09
chem\|st	lcuk: an australian couple and a greek started a fight about it, got close to a real beat up	16:09
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lcuk	o_O	16:09
lcuk	right >>> i have code to play with	16:10
* lcuk tries to fix portrait transitions on dynamic rotation		16:10
chem\|st	I wasn't even close (balkony) but was able to understand the whole argument like being right next to them	16:10
DocScrutinizer	50 on the aussie	16:11
chem\|st	lcuk: play? got 70k lines of delphi to "play" with...	16:11
DocScrutinizer	yumm delphi	16:11
lcuk	chem\|st, http://liqbase.net/20100626_005.mp4 :)	16:12
lcuk	playtime	16:12
lcuk	using n900 in portrait is strange without a keyboard	16:12
sejo	hmm does n900 support h.264 encoding?	16:12
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sejo	just used it with handbrake but it seems my n900 connot play it	16:13
Andy80	hi all	16:13
Andy80	anyone can give me more information about this contest http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Coding_Competition_1 ?	16:13
Arkenoi	Is there a hack to make ctrl-shift-R effect persistent?	16:14
lcuk	Arkenoi, its not global yet so some of the system apps dont operate perfectly	16:14
chem\|st	sejo: which container?	16:14
lcuk	Arkenoi, more and more is turning portrait day by day though Arkenoi	16:15
lcuk	-Arkenoi	16:15
DocScrutinizer	alas I never was too happy with kylix	16:15
Arkenoi	lcuk: that's ok, i prefer "not turning" the phone when it is not needed instead of having to press ctrl-shift-R in all application that need turning every time ;-)	16:16
lcuk	Arkenoi, sure	16:16
lcuk	what you should do however is report this to the app developers	16:16
lcuk	say "i am happy using your app using ctrl+shift+r and your app works well, perhaps you could tweak to rotate by default" or offer a patch to do the same	16:17
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sejo	chemist what?	16:18
sejo	(first time I ever encoded or did something similar)	16:18
sejo	I use an mkv file	16:19
sejo	with H.264 encoding (trying again with mpeg-4 FFmpeg)	16:19
crashanddie	"Eight percent of Russians believe their national team will win the World Cup, despite the fact that it never qualified for the tournament, an independent poll has showed."	16:21
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b-man	crashanddie: http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/03/disco-chair-is-way-cooler-than-its-name-would-lead-you-to-believ/ LOL	16:22
Arkenoi	lcuk: yes, but i want that now ;-)	16:23
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chem\|st	sejo: x264 mkv with mplayer works...	16:26
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chem\|st	sejo: with mediaplayer too	16:26
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chem\|st	sejo: can you provide a sample please?!	16:27
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lbt	for those in the UK that care : http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/laurie-penny/2010/07/digital-economy-act-rights#reader-comments	16:28
Arkenoi	chem: for me it did not	16:29
pupnik	Texrat's presentation at Akademy 2010: "User feedback framework" http://qik.com/video/8561492	16:29
pupnik	thanks to cybette for the video	16:30
Arkenoi	chem\|st, http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/Futurama_6_season_%5btfile.ru%5d/Futurama.%20Season%206.%20Episode%201.mkv	16:30
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Arkenoi	does not play from media player and damn ugly with mplayer	16:30
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alterego	Arkenoi: you know distributing copyrighted material is illegal right?	16:32
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: LOL	16:34
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DocScrutinizer	to whom it may concern: I got a cheap wallwart USB charger with A-receptacle (and a nice 2color LED to show current). I openend it and soldered a short to receptacle's D+/- pins - now it works like a charm with N900 + CA-101 cable. While without shorted D+/- it never did any charging at all	16:38
pupnik	is all legislation "law-ful"? are there any tests or standards for legislative acts whereby we can discern between 'law' and illegitimate usurpation of power?	16:39
jacekowski	pupnik: constitution	16:39
jacekowski	pupnik: everything HAS to comply with constitution otherwise it's illegal	16:39
DocScrutinizer	and you got to find a supreme court to decide on that condition :-P	16:40
pupnik	that's one answer. another is that we can derive which codes are compatible with survival and individual rights	16:40
DocScrutinizer	otherwise it's legal even if it doesn't comply	16:40
jacekowski	in poland there is something called Constitutional Tribunal	16:41
alterego	pupnik, that's why we have courts, t5o decide if hings were unlawful and illegal after the fact. That's how gov't can get away with screwing you over :)	16:41
pupnik	there's an interesting podcast on that here: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2009/06/epstein_on_the.html	16:41
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pupnik	"Richard Epstein of the University of Chicago and Stanford University's Hoover Institution talks with EconTalk host Russ Roberts about the rule of law."	16:41
lcuk	pupnik, post texrats presentation here!	16:41
jacekowski	and they are required to check if law complies with constitution	16:41
crashanddie	jacekowski: in France it's the "Conseil Constitutionnel", the longest word in french is even "anticonstitutionnellement"	16:41
pupnik	i don't have that - maybe linked in meego forum lcuk	16:41
crashanddie	jacekowski: I'm guessing every country has that	16:41
lcuk	* pupnik (~puphome@p54B2A387.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #meego	16:42
lcuk	<pupnik> Texrat's presentation at Akademy 2010: "User feedback framework" http://qik.com/video/8561492 ty cybette for the video	16:42
lcuk	you just had it a moment ago pupnik :p	16:42
alterego	For instant, some of our (UK) anti terrorism laws, which are in effect very eavily here have been deemed against basic human rights in the European couurts. It'll take ages for that to eventually make a difference, especially as the police are now so used to ttheirr extra bs privs ... :(	16:42
crashanddie	such as what?	16:43
jacekowski	poland was 1st country in europe that had constitution	16:43
crashanddie	Asking people for ID?	16:43
pupnik	i already posted that lcuk	16:43
alterego	Longesxt English word is "antidisestablishmentarianism" :)	16:43
crashanddie	Oh yeah, now there's a human rights violation	16:43
DocScrutinizer	probably except USA, crashanddie. I heard they decide everything based n prior instance	16:43
lcuk	pupnik, i saw it on meego but not here!	16:43
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Arkenoi	alterego, well, i have no other media sample to show the problem :-(	16:43
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: well, it's the land of the free, innit?	16:43
chem\|st	Arkenoi: a sample...	16:43
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: hehe, yes	16:44
chem\|st	Arkenoi: means 20 seconds of what he encoded	16:44
alterego	Arkenoi: well, I don't mind. I was just saying ;)	16:44
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ShadowJK	The built-in media player only supports h264 baseline. Most files in the wild are main or high profile. MPlayer supports high profile, but it runs out of CPU power at about 512x384 or so..	16:45
chem\|st	Arkenoi: what do you mean by damn ugly with mplayer?	16:45
* DocScrutinizer wonders where you people get the longest words from. And have fun finding the longest German word :-P		16:45
pupnik	well constitutions don't appear sui generis - they are grounded in a framework of custom and an understanding of rightful vs illetitimate uses of power. the legal theory behind that is the subject of the above-linked podcast. it is very illuminating.	16:45
chem\|st	ShadowJK: right...	16:45
Arkenoi	chem\|st, sound out of sync, picture distortion sometimes	16:46
lcuk	how do rss feeder apps know when to "pull" new data	16:46
Arkenoi	and seems that it is just too slow :-(	16:46
ShadowJK	Sound out of sync is what happens when it can't decode video fast enough to keep up	16:46
lcuk	is there an ajax method for server to say new item ready	16:46
lcuk	or do they just poll	16:46
kerio	ajax is always polling	16:47
lcuk	kerio, really	16:47
chem\|st	Arkenoi: ok thats a known issue as ShadowJK said	16:47
Arkenoi	ShadowJK, why not to have -framedrop as default option at least?	16:47
DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: I seem to remember somebody cheering "HAH! it's been the silly subtitles! without them it works"	16:47
kerio	websockets on the other hand, allows for push	16:47
lcuk	ajax i thought opened a connection and used data pushed down it to detect stuffs	16:47
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lardman	re	16:47
lcuk	hey lardman \o	16:47
Arkenoi	i did not manage to get it viewed with command line mplayer at all though :-(	16:47
lardman	hey lcuk	16:47
jacekowski	well, longest polish word is konstantynopolitanczykiewiczowna	16:47
ShadowJK	press d on the keyboard to enable framedropping	16:47
Arkenoi	DocScrutinizer, weird :-)	16:48
ShadowJK	Though in practice this most of the time means nothing is displayed ever, if the gap in CPU power neeed and CPU power available is big	16:48
lardman	so, dbus in Qt, does QDBus work?	16:49
Arkenoi	and why does media player not recognize it as valid media file?	16:49
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: I even seen cases where cpu load on skipping frames was higher than on normal playback :-P	16:49
jacekowski	codecs	16:49
jacekowski	media player is using gstreamer	16:49
jacekowski	mplayer has it's own codecs	16:49
chem\|st	jacekowski: Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia = fear of long words	16:50
ShadowJK	Arkenoi, it's most likely h264 high profile. The media player only supports h264 baseline.	16:50
Arkenoi	ShadowJK, and "extra decoders support" does not change it?	16:50
jacekowski	Arkenoi: no	16:50
ShadowJK	Nope	16:50
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: LOL	16:50
kerio	it's not about the codec	16:50
jacekowski	kerio: it is	16:50
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ShadowJK	Besides, if extra decoders support did have support for h264 main/high profile, it'd be as slow (or slower) as MPlayer :-)	16:51
kerio	jacekowski: got a magic x264 decoder that allows for 1080p playback on n900?	16:51
kerio	(smooth playback, i mean)	16:51
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ShadowJK	There isn't one :)	16:51
kerio	yeah, i know	16:51
jacekowski	kerio: n900 SoC is fast enough to handle it	16:51
jacekowski	at least that's what TI is claiming for little bit faster chip	16:52
kerio	really?	16:52
ShadowJK	Though allegedly TI has one that can do 720p, if you pay them in truckloads of cash	16:52
ShadowJK	Or maybe it was someone else, not TI, but for omap3.. hugely expensive atleast	16:52
MohammadAG	lcuk, ger/arg?	16:52
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lardman	isn't that the dsp codec that you pay for though?	16:52
jacekowski	a saw somewhere that tegra with similiar dsp is capable of 1080p	16:52
ShadowJK	lardman, yeah?	16:53
ShadowJK	"similar"? wtf? :)	16:53
ShadowJK	I thought tegra would have nvidia decoder in it	16:53
jacekowski	in terms of performance	16:53
lardman	can our hw theoretically decode 720p?	16:53
DocScrutinizer	lardman: sure	16:53
DocScrutinizer	lardman: question is: how many seconds per frame?	16:53
ShadowJK	And what codec :)	16:53
jacekowski	well, 1080p can be decoded on 1,3GHz general purpose CPU	16:54
lardman	ah I see, I was thinking real-time	16:54
ShadowJK	jacekowski, LOL	16:54
ShadowJK	my 2.66GHz struggles with some 720p files even	16:54
lardman	is there any data giving required memory accesses/muls/adds/etc to decode a frame?	16:54
jacekowski	well, my 1.3GHz athlon could decode 1080p	16:54
jacekowski	at 23.something fps	16:54
ShadowJK	jacekowski, do yo still have it?	16:54
jacekowski	with minimal framedrop	16:54
DocScrutinizer	lardman: probably the websites of the codec inventor labs will quote some numbers	16:55
jacekowski	ShadowJK: no	16:55
Arkenoi	well, those "samples" are not 1080p. actually they are 720x480 and still n900 is too slow for it?	16:55
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jacekowski	hmmm	16:56
jacekowski	correction	16:56
jacekowski	that was 720p	16:56
jacekowski	Final.Fantasy.VII.Advent.Children.Multilang.2005.720p.XviD.AC3.[SoftLand.org.pl].mkv	16:56
ShadowJK	Arkenoi, h264 main or high profile with MPlayer, resolution limit is at 512x384 or lower	16:56
pupnik	"You have to decide, what you really want to do"	16:56
ShadowJK	h264 baseline profile with built in media player, 800x480	16:57
jacekowski	so 720p is possible on 1.3GHz generic purpose cpu	16:57
DocScrutinizer	ooh there's another topic on my stack: did some tests with a Nokia wired remote 7-button. No conclusive results on what they do exactly to transmit/encode the button press events to the 4-pin AV connector :-/	16:57
jacekowski	on n900 there is GPU and DSP and VFP and NEON and ARM that can handle decoding in parallel	16:57
jacekowski	if codec is designed properly	16:58
DocScrutinizer	but for sure it's not an R-ladder	16:58
DocScrutinizer	and for sure there's some digital logic involved	16:58
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: ^^^	16:58
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, dunno, but when I connect it to a phone that does understand 7-button remote, each button press produces a dit-dot-dit-dot sound in the background. This sound is lower on volume than the background hiss on N8x0, however. There's no such noise when I connect it to devices that do not understand 7-button remote, so the remote isn't even transmitting	16:58
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SpeedEvil	ESTACKOVERFLOW	16:59
ShadowJK	jacekowski, vfp, neon and arm are limited by instruction decode and issue	16:59
ShadowJK	dsp and arm core would need to be able to exchange data very fast	16:59
ShadowJK	It's a 5 man year task or thereabouts ;)	17:00
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: yup, that's conclusive. I wasn't able to probe mic resistance with a DMM on diode check setting	17:00
jacekowski	not that fast	17:00
lardman	yeees, well I wonder if that works better now than it used to	17:00
jacekowski	ShadowJK: you just need to decode as much as you can and push it to next core	17:00
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DocScrutinizer	so probably they work with voltages >2V for micbias	17:00
ShadowJK	Well it'd be interesting to try do cabac on either dsp or cpu, that's the easiest thing you can decouple	17:01
lardman	~cabac	17:01
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DocScrutinizer	anyway, on N900 i wasn't able to get any reaction with that critter, on button push. So guess we're out of luck to hack sth in sw	17:01
jacekowski	i hate wireless	17:02
jacekowski	i can't play 720p over wireless	17:02
ShadowJK	lardman, context adaptive binary arithmetic coding	17:02
lardman	passing large amounts of data back from the DSP was a problem on the omap2420	17:02
ShadowJK	it's the entropy coding	17:02
lardman	thanks	17:02
ShadowJK	In h264 baseline you have a less processing intensive altenrative, cavlc	17:02
lardman	we can now write to the fb directly from the DSP so I understand? Like we used to do on the 770, which would make it far more appealing	17:03
Macer	hm	17:03
DocScrutinizer	hahahAAHA	17:03
Macer	i sure wish the email app had a setting to force storing of sent msgs to the imap server	17:03
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DocScrutinizer51	Mueller!!!!	17:04
Macer	instead of the local sent	17:04
Macer	blah	17:04
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DocScrutinizer51	shit. A 2:0 in <240s that would have been nice	17:05
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lardman	urgh, QDBus is confusing	17:09
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DocScrutinizer51	QDbus?	17:09
lardman	yeah	17:10
lardman	well QDBus I guess	17:10
Termana	didn't you just say the same thing twice?	17:10
DocScrutinizer51	what's that?	17:10
lardman	Termana: capitalisation ;)	17:10
lardman	DocScrutinizer51: DBus for Qt	17:10
lardman	or wrapped by Qt	17:10
DocScrutinizer51	aah yes. thought almost as much	17:11
Termana	DocScrutinizer51, I meant lardman - he just said QDBus and then said QDBus again	17:11
lcuk	MohammadAG, no	17:11
lcuk	im coding	17:11
Termana	oh nevermind	17:11
lardman	:)	17:11
lcuk	http://github.com/lcuk	17:11
Termana	~nuke Termana	17:11
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at Termana ... B☢☢M!		17:11
Macer	well... looks like win7 has built in disc image writing huh?	17:12
lardman	MASD	17:12
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lardman	so who knows about getting hildon-mime to work under Qt?	17:12
Macer	hopefully it works	17:12
Termana	Macer, besides the fact Windows 7 is junk, Windows 7 features is old news now	17:12
lardman	nah, Win7 is nice cf Vista or XP	17:13
MohammadAG	lcuk, screw code	17:15
Termana	Vista is piece of crap x10. I'm not just spreading the same bullshit people spew over it either. Just today I spent 30 minutes doing some networking stuff (and it still won't work) on Vista. I can do the same thing in Ubuntu in less than 2 seconds :\	17:15
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, 2 minute goal for germany	17:15
jacekowski	Termana: because you don't know how to do it	17:15
jacekowski	Termana: don't blame your lack of knowledge on operating system	17:15
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DocScrutinizer51	alas they missed to goal the other 5 chances during first 300s	17:16
Macer	Termana: well. i just wasnt expecting the iso burning	17:16
Termana	jacekowski, funny. Except for the fact I had a perfectly working ICS system going, and then suddenly it stopped working and won't work again now. Even though nothing has changed.	17:16
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ShadowJK	oh, football	17:16
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jacekowski	ICS doesn't like when devices disappera	17:17
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jacekowski	disappear*	17:17
Macer	Termana: i am not a big fan of os bashing... unless it is osx	17:17
Macer	:)	17:17
jacekowski	yeah, osx sucks	17:17
lcuk	eeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww	17:17
* lcuk scratches for some reason		17:17
loufoque_	os x sucks almost as much as windows	17:17
Termana	jacekowski, ICS is crap. Windows is crap. End of story. Theres a little drop down menu in the networking settings that works 100% of the time to do the same thing	17:17
Termana	(in Ubuntu)	17:18
Macer	osx is overhyped ... nothing more	17:18
jacekowski	Termana: it doesn't	17:18
jacekowski	Termana: bridging is fubar in ubuntu	17:18
lardman	Dare I say it, Win7 just works, while Ubuntu is a pita	17:18
loufoque_	what's ICS? International Chili Society?	17:18
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jacekowski	internet connection sharing	17:18
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Macer	why not just use a $10 router?	17:19
Macer	:)	17:19
loufoque_	lardman: well it's the other way around for me. Windows isn't even usable past xp	17:19
Termana	jacekowski, Whatever. I share my 3G connection over wifi everyday, with absolutely no thinking involved..	17:19
loufoque_	Termana: with your N900 as the mifi device?	17:19
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lardman	loufoque_: I'm just in a bad mood as Ubuntu is falling to bits on my current box - monitors not working, etc	17:19
Termana	jacekowski, and you think "ICS doesn't like disappearing devices" is a good excuse for me to like Windows. Poor windows. It doesn't like disappearing devices.	17:20
DocScrutinizer51	guess I'll get me a nice huge Filet of Argentina Angus	17:20
lardman	loufoque_: Might just be the fault of KDE of course, Gnome worked fine	17:20
loufoque_	lardman: multiple monitors setup can fail to work with bad drivers	17:20
Macer	wow.. all i said was that i wasnt expecting iso burning support	17:20
Termana	loufoque_, no - I share my USB 3G connection, over wifi, to use my n810. I don't have an n900 yet. I'll be ordering mine around the 12th	17:20
* Macer crawls under a rock		17:20
lardman	loufoque_: one of Window's (few) advantages is that multi-head has always been easy to setup and get working	17:20
loufoque_	Termana: and what device do you use to do that?	17:21
Macer	where's Stskeeps ? i havent seen him in a while?	17:21
Macer	is he off making babies?	17:21
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Termana	loufoque_, what do you mean? The USB 3G dongle is a Huawei E160E and I just use my laptops wifi card	17:21
Termana	Macer, he was at a festival, I think he is back now	17:22
loufoque_	Termana: your laptop then.	17:23
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loufoque_	Termana: it would be cooler to have a router-like device dedicated to this as you wouldn't need your laptop to be on	17:24
Termana	loufoque_, maybe. I just can't be stuffed buying a router that accepts 3G USB dongles :P And its only an EEE PC (701SD) anyway.	17:24
Macer	blah	17:25
Macer	have to reboot	17:25
loufoque_	some routers can run open source software and have usb ports	17:25
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Termana	loufoque, What are you trying to say? I should buy an accessory to make it work, when using an OS that isn't craptastic solves the problem anyway?	17:29
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alterego	Mmmm, pizza	17:34
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GAN900	I never thought pizza would be something I'd ever miss or crave	17:42
alterego	I get it every now-and-again.	17:43
alterego	That was just a couple of slices I had in the fridge from last night.	17:43
alterego	Tasted better cold tbh :D	17:43
alterego	Easier to eat too.	17:43
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jacekowski	GAN900: pregnant womens get that sort of cravings	17:45
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alterego	That was low jacekowski :P	17:46
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alterego	Texrats talk is pretty good pupnik	17:47
alterego	Thank you for sharing the link.	17:47
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DocScrutinizer	Termana: EEE PC 701 + 3G dongle. Sounds like you bought this in Taipei ;-P	17:50
DocScrutinizer	Termana: though mine is a 701SDX, in white	17:51
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alterego	Ooo, I really like the gaming ide.a	17:51
lcuk	hey guys	17:51
lcuk	maemo calculator	17:51
alterego	Aloha lcuk	17:51
DocScrutinizer	hey lcuk	17:51
lcuk	i just tested it in portrait mode	17:51
lcuk	and it was broke	17:51
DocScrutinizer	tztztzz	17:52
lcuk	its unusable	17:52
Termana	lcuk, give it some money	17:52
lcuk	needs a ui adjustment to work	17:52
Termana	It won't be broke any more	17:52
lcuk	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10854	17:52
povbot	Bug 10854: portrait mode calculator not available	17:52
lcuk	i filed a bug	17:52
DocScrutinizer	use HP42. Works great, even in portrait :-P	17:52
lcuk	can we have some votes on it please	17:52
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DocScrutinizer	lcuk: that bug is incorrect. Should read "found no adequate bin to dump calculator"	17:53
rodald	hi, does anyone know if i can use the TV Catchup app out of the UK? i live in Guatemala and it asks me to sign up first but it doesnt allow me to sign up	17:53
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, not at all, its usable if im in landscape mode	17:53
lcuk	it happily performs its functin and i use it often	17:54
DocScrutinizer	TV Ketchup	17:54
DocScrutinizer	?	17:54
lcuk	but i had to take my device off its portrait stand to use it	17:54
alterego	Heh	17:54
* pahartik finds out that "Irssi" on "Maemo" does not have "proxy" module§		17:54
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lcuk	theres some other things i would like to make sure happens	17:54
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: honestly I think even my wetware calculator is almost more usable than that silly proof of wrong concept	17:55
* pahartik finds out that "Irssi" on "Maemo" does not have "proxy" module		17:55
Termana	pahartik, please don't repeat yourself. This is IRC, we all saw what you said the first time :)	17:55
pahartik	Termana: But I corrected typo	17:56
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: use ibot ;-P	17:56
DocScrutinizer	~ (3 + 5) * 22	17:56
infobot	176	17:56
rodald	hahha no it is a streaming app	17:56
pupnik	irssi also doesn't have perl m	17:56
pupnik	which is preventing me from robot-voice in irc	17:56
GAN900	Anybody know how to get rid of the extra paragraph padding with epubs in FBReader?	17:57
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alterego	Ooo, I recognise that voice in the background asking a question ..	17:58
lcuk	ninja!	17:58
* lcuk just watched "Taxi 2" yesterday and giggles		17:58
DocScrutinizer	Termana: though my 701SDX has freggled OS (not that it ever been a really working flavour of linux), and for the life of mine I can't get a decent OS installed - to be precise I got no extrenal optical drive to boot from :-S	17:59
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: network?	18:00
Termana	DocScrutinizer, why not use a USB stick or SD card? Thats how I load linux OSes onto mine.	18:00
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: I am eaiting for python module & support for xchat...	18:00
alterego	Grrr,	18:00
luke-jr	Termana: I don't have a USB stick either, and my Aspire One wouldn't boot from SD	18:00
DocScrutinizer	Termana: tried, probably I'm too retarded to get a USB-stick bootable	18:01
Termana	luke-jr, yeah, but he has a 701SDX and mines a 701SD, they are probably using mostly the same components. Theres a possibility thats not the case though.	18:01
DocScrutinizer	pupnik: s/eaiting/waiting/	18:01
Termana	DocScrutinizer, you are going into the boot menu when you have the USB stick in right? (By pressing Esc)	18:02
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: well, USB stick is probably easier than network booting	18:02
DocScrutinizer	yes	18:02
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jacekowski	network boot is quite simple	18:04
jacekowski	if we are talking about wired ethernet	18:04
Termana	DocScrutinizer, tried Network booting?	18:04
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jacekowski	all device has to do is talk to dhcp, pull image from tftp and run it	18:05
Termana	DocScrutinizer, http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ I use this to make mine bootable and it loads the iso on as well all by itself - so I'm not fiddling around with it all.	18:06
DocScrutinizer51	Termana: dunno (it's collecting dust since lot longer than 1 year), but probably not	18:06
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DocScrutinizer51	Termana: that URL is an image to copy yo usb stick?	18:07
Termana	DocScrutinizer51, no, its to a program that extracts the iso and makes your usb stick bootable by itself, so you don't have to fiddle around.	18:09
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DocScrutinizer51	aah, k	18:09
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alterego	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/02/apple_iphone_4_denial_letter/	18:17
alterego	Heh	18:17
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pupnik	nice alterego	18:23
alterego	It's refreshing listening to Apple fanbois on their forums ranting :D	18:23
DocScrutinizer	Termana: I'd guess I should be able to boot 701SDX from builtin SD-card reader?	18:23
alterego	Rather thana newbs on tmo ranting :D	18:23
Termana	DocScrutinizer, thats what I do with mine	18:24
alterego	Which, I might add, has severly decreased over the past two weeks I've noticed.	18:24
alterego	Or maybe I've been sleeping longer ..	18:24
alterego	Oh this is nice: "What they don't realise is that now; since this software patch (if it exists) all those who posted saying they don't see any signal drop will actually now see a signal drop as the bars will correctly show a new lower signal... before they were fooled to believe that they hadn't had any signal drop.	18:25
alterego	"	18:25
DocScrutinizer51	ok. now 2 goals was about time	18:25
alterego	"Give it a chance at least. The logic could be that simple i.e. if Bars = 0 then drop call." Awww, they certainly are gullable that lot :D	18:26
alterego	"My feeling is that if the phone makes and receives calls clearly (both our iP4s do), then (at least to me), it's a non-issue. "	18:30
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alterego	Oh my god, they actually turn into Steve Jobs!	18:30
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, 3-0	18:31
MohammadAG	XD	18:31
DocScrutinizer	about to bolt my door	18:33
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jacekowski	who's playing?	18:35
jacekowski	arg-ger?	18:35
alterego	Germany and Argentina	18:35
jacekowski	i hope argentina is winning	18:36
luke-jr	...	18:37
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kerio	nope	18:37
kerio	3-0 ger-arg	18:37
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luke-jr	kerio: stfu	18:40
luke-jr	:p	18:40
Lantizia	yeah! wait what?	18:40
luke-jr	this is #maemo, not #retarded-adults-playing-childrens-games	18:41
luke-jr	<.<	18:41
Appiah	ooooh SNAP!	18:41
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lardman	is the filemanager source available anywhere chaps?	18:44
DocScrutinizer	yes	18:44
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lardman	:)	18:45
lardman	Do you know where?	18:45
DocScrutinizer	though, HFM itself I'm not sure	18:45
lardman	oh :(	18:45
DocScrutinizer	LOLOLOL	18:45
MohammadAG	ROFLMFAO	18:45
lardman	hmm	18:45
DocScrutinizer	please send photos of Maradonna to me!	18:46
MohammadAG	LMFAO	18:46
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* MohammadAG expects a 5th one		18:46
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DocScrutinizer	they have to hurry for the 5th	18:47
DocScrutinizer	wasn't that AR whose players started a beatup when game was just finished?	18:48
Ikarus	heh	18:49
MohammadAG	I can haz +o to add "Germany for world cup 2010" to the topic?	18:51
MohammadAG	XD	18:51
jacekowski	i will haz you dos ed	18:52
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jacekowski	dos'ed	18:52
MohammadAG	good luck with that	18:53
DocScrutinizer	NAAAAH!	18:53
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jacekowski	wanna bet?	18:53
MohammadAG	nah, I don't want you to lose shit :)	18:54
DocScrutinizer	ooh, for [^(51)] I don't care that much :-P	18:54
MohammadAG	cya	18:54
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DocScrutinizer	duh?	18:54
jacekowski	i was about to dos him	18:55
jacekowski	and he left	18:55
Termana	lol	18:55
Termana	Since its 1:30 in the morning here, I suppose I better be off as well. Good night	18:55
DocScrutinizer	night Termana	18:56
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: keep your fingers off my bouncer :-P	18:56
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* alterego wonders off to make a snack before heading into the town ...		19:01
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GAN900	The 4th just had to fall on a Sunday	19:04
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*** ChanServ changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo \| http://maemo.org/ \| http://maemo.nokia.com/ \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org/ \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/ \| Germany for world cup 2010"		19:05
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crashanddie	jacekowski: be my guest, DoS ChanServ ;)	19:07
range	:)	19:07
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lardman	so, anyone know where the hildon filemanager source lives? iirc the backend lib was open wasn't it?	19:20
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lcuk	yes lardman the backend is open	19:26
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Jaffa	Af'noon, all	19:41
alterego	Jaffa, liked that open letter about OBS maemo area :)	19:42
Jaffa	alterego: lbt did most of the work ;-)	19:42
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alterego	Well, he's not here, so you can have my appreciation :P	19:42
Jaffa	alterego: ta :)	19:43
alterego	Any feedback from LF?	19:43
Jaffa	None.	19:43
alterego	Or whomever :D	19:43
alterego	Oh, :/	19:43
Jaffa	Not really; so I think we're going ahead	19:43
alterego	I liked the Nokia name drop too :D	19:43
alterego	Oh dear, time for another browser history purge :/	19:44
alterego	Really makes auto complete pointless :D	19:44
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alterego	Grr, now the browser just fails to load pages, wtf. It looks like it tries and then gives up :(	19:50
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GAN900	Oops	19:54
GAN900	Jaffa, I actually think I prefer the interface of Docs.	19:54
GAN900	Etherpad has some clunkiness.	19:55
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kerio	for what?	19:56
GAN900	kerio, mwkn.net issue creation.	19:56
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kerio	what's wrong with textarea? :P	19:57
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GAN900	kerio, it means we have to build our collaboration environment from scratch?	19:59
GAN900	Which is actually the plan, but.	19:59
Jaffa	GAN900: The new version of docs doesn't make it easy to rip out the plain text doc :-(	19:59
kerio	so far, pecan > haze and butterfly right?	20:00
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GAN900	Ah	20:07
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strcpy	TEAM PlanB	20:10
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ljsdofuynsdfufuh	where does the openvpn applet put its logs?	21:11
n1x0n	hi there, I know this is not a maemo-related question really - but I hope to there are some N900 owners here =] Basically trying to get N900 but apparently it has a simlock (?!) - I was under the impression that they don't have that (apparently that's from vodafone) , anyone had any experiencie with that by any chance ?	21:12
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crashanddie	ljsdofuynsdfufuh: nickname	21:13
luke-jr	n1x0n: never heard of a simlocked N900	21:13
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n1x0n	luke-jr: yeah same! odd. I'll google a bit more, thx	21:16
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timetochange	how do you highlight text to copy and paste from a webpage?	21:19
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crashanddie	timetochange: swipe your finger from the bottom left, outside of the screen into the screen	21:21
crashanddie	timetochange: you'll have a mouse cursor. Also works for Javascript hover.	21:22
crashanddie	timetochange: would you mind just changing the default nickname in your IRC client? Thanks.	21:22
crashanddie	timetochange: next time you'll be banned. I'm tired of asking.	21:23
luke-jr	...	21:23
luke-jr	what's wrong with it?	21:23
crashanddie	not this one, the previous one	21:23
luke-jr	yeah	21:23
luke-jr	what's wrong with it? :/	21:23
crashanddie	he knows what I'm on about	21:23
crashanddie	it's jibberish?	21:23
timetochange	im not getting this cursor...	21:23
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luke-jr	so?	21:24
luke-jr	crashanddie is gibberish too	21:24
luke-jr	:D	21:24
crashanddie	sure	21:24
timetochange	bottom left, meaning over that arrow?	21:24
timetochange	I'm not getting a cursor	21:24
luke-jr	crashanddie: if it really bothers you, /ban ljsdofuynsdfufuh!@	21:25
crashanddie	"over that arrow"?	21:25
crashanddie	luke-jr: I'd rather he does it on his own.	21:25
crashanddie	luke-jr: but yeah, that's what'll happen eventually	21:25
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timetochange	ah wtf	21:26
timetochange	saw it for a sec	21:26
timetochange	once i have it how do i highlight?	21:27
DocScrutinizer	I'd say a +q is absolutely sufficient in that case	21:27
crashanddie	once the cursor icon display, click it. Then you can drag your finger around	21:27
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: +q prevents nick change, so really the same as +b	21:28
luke-jr	is it just the length of the gibberish?	21:28
* DocScrutinizer is dragging around his fingers		21:28
luke-jr	/ban ??????????!@* to enforce IRC RFC :P	21:28
DocScrutinizer	/ban luke-jr to fight poisonous ideas	21:29
ptl	why is talk.maemo.org redirected again to internettablettalk?	21:30
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DocScrutinizer	damn, even registered	21:30
crashanddie	ptl: it doesn't	21:31
SpeedEvil	It is a synonym	21:31
timetochange	wow using that cursor is a fucking skill	21:32
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DocScrutinizer	btw crashanddie while you're over it: /ban `* [* ___ \|* ^*	21:33
ptl	I know it is a synonym, but now every thread I click goes on to internettablettalk instead of maemo.org	21:33
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: eh?	21:33
crashanddie	ptl: I don't see that behaviour	21:34
crashanddie	ptl: steps to reproduce?	21:34
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mikki-kun	timetochange: i don't think it's hard...	21:35
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: I gather you never tried to enter nicknames like \|R or _0x47 or \[\[\[ bla ]]] on N900	21:35
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: nope	21:35
timetochange	I keep getting socket.connect() failed using the openvpn thing	21:36
DocScrutinizer	honestly, ljsdofuynsdfufuh is easy (with nick completion) compared to these	21:36
timetochange	why thank you	21:36
timetochange	use irssi?	21:36
crashanddie	timetochange: port in use?	21:37
crashanddie	timetochange: socket timeout?	21:37
timetochange	1194	21:37
ptl	crashanddie: can't seem to reproduce this right now, weird	21:37
timetochange	didnt specify a timeout	21:37
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crashanddie	timetochange: no, I meant that the socket remains in use for a while if the application crashes	21:38
timetochange	well, where does it put logs?	21:39
crashanddie	timetochange: just look in netstat	21:39
crashanddie	probably something like netstat -tn \| grep 1194	21:39
MohammadAG51	netstat is borked (busybox), install the non busybox version (packaged as netstat)	21:39
timetochange	"no kernel support for AF INET6 (tcp)"	21:41
ptl	Wow, NITdroid now can be booted without R&D mode... Sweet. It's progressing faster than Meego!	21:41
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: [Support] CHARSET=ascii NICKLEN=16 CHANNELLEN=50 .... I'd say that's freenode's call, not the chanop enforcing some obscure RFC	21:44
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ptl	have you guys ever met a GNU/Linux user that also worked as a male stripper or gogoboy?	21:52
MohammadAG51	wtf	21:53
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lbt	Could someone volunteer to prepare a web page on the (meego) wiki? I need some MeeGo and some Maemo volunteer devs who can help verify the OBS setup.	21:56
lbt	I need a list where people can volunteer and say what they can offer	21:56
lbt	(ie why/how they can help beta test it)	21:57
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timetochange	I'm trying to use the itshidden.com free openvpn server since I can't run any of my own at the moment, and I'm trying to narrow down why my n900 won't connect	22:00
tremby	anyone using python-location? i'm getting device.fix[0] == 3, which doesn't match any of the location.METHOD_* constants. i can't figure out what it means.	22:01
Macer	can i wifi tether the n900	22:02
Macer	i forgot my damn usb cable	22:02
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nidO	Macer yes, but you need to install a custom kernel to do so, or buy joikuspot which will setup an ad-hoc tether	22:02
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Macer	hm. i put the "advanced" kernel on it already	22:04
Macer	maybe that already has the support built in	22:05
nidO	if you've got the power kernel installed, then just install mobilehotspot from -testing	22:05
nidO	and youll get an infrastructure hotspot	22:05
timetochange	i thought the n900 would have a more universal usb connector, like the ones for cameras or something	22:05
nidO	doesnt get much more universal than micro usb	22:06
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tremby	it is standard, just a newer standard than usb-mini X(	22:06
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timetochange	ah	22:07
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DocScrutinizer	honestly most cameras do not have a real standard USB	22:17
timetochange	DocScrutinizer, what would you do if you kept getting the error socket.connected() failed from openvpn applet?	22:18
DocScrutinizer	buy vodka?	22:18
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mikki-kun	hm, does formating the microsd to ext3 prevent the n900 from accessing it?	22:19
MohammadAG51	LOL	22:19
MohammadAG51	mount it	22:19
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mikki-kun	MohammadAG51: i don't have one at hand which i can format to try it out ;)	22:19
n900-dk_	Have any of you guys installed the Juniper SSL VPN on N900 with success?	22:20
MohammadAG51	oh	22:20
MohammadAG51	you need to mount it manually	22:20
MohammadAG51	or add a line to rcS-late	22:20
mikki-kun	but i can rw it then as a normal user?	22:20
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DocScrutinizer	mikki-kun: eh?	22:21
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MohammadAG51	hmm	22:22
MohammadAG51	i think hildon-fm would bitch about it	22:22
mikki-kun	DocScrutinizer: read/write access... sorry if that sounds a lil over the top, but sometimes the n900 behaves really odd	22:22
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: why?	22:22
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, well, it didn't copy to my flash drive	22:22
DocScrutinizer	you can access /home	22:23
DocScrutinizer	sure you need to care about mounting... but when it's mounted normally, I can't see the issue	22:24
ShadowJK	and chmod it user	22:25
DocScrutinizer	mompl, lemme try	22:25
ShadowJK	uh I mean chown	22:25
DocScrutinizer	aah	22:25
* ShadowJK runs mmc1 as ext3		22:25
DocScrutinizer	ok, so I'll not try	22:25
DocScrutinizer	even whule I'm sure I already did	22:25
mikki-kun	hm, thanks... so i need to make a small script in /etc/rcS.d/ (if that is the dir) and that would be it...	22:26
nidO	doesnt the camera app fail if the internal mmc gets formatted to ext3?	22:26
nidO	or did someone figure out a fix for that?	22:26
DocScrutinizer	got a uSD with 13G VFAT, 2.5G ext3, and rest is swap	22:26
mikki-kun	nidO: i asked for the microSD not the emmc ;)	22:26
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nidO	so you did	22:26
DocScrutinizer	I thought that's been fixed with 1.1.1 even	22:26
nidO	well, I assume the same applies that the camera app wont be able to save to the microsd if you format it to ext3	22:27
ShadowJK	If you mount it manually you can't use it with the camera	22:27
ShadowJK	If you spend time modifying scripts and such, I'm told it'd work	22:27
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mikki-kun	man, nokia really left a mess for that >.<	22:27
DocScrutinizer	IIRC there's never been an issue with ext3. It's just been the rudimentary permissions handling that made it work with VFAT	22:28
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mikki-kun	hm, seems kinda lazy then somehow if they didn't wanna set the permissions right	22:29
DocScrutinizer	like DCIM created by a root process root:root 744 and then userland camera-ui trying to write to it	22:29
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DocScrutinizer	also I heard the folder names were case-messedup	22:30
mikki-kun	hu? how do you mean?	22:31
* h0n3st is away: I'm busy		22:31
ShadowJK	For me the issue is that the initial script that tries to mount it fails (as it greps partition table for msdos partition and then tries to mount every msdos partition as vfat), so everything thinks the sd is corrupted	22:31
DocScrutinizer	so probably all was done wrong that possibly could, and would never show up under windows	22:31
pwnguin	fat is case insenetive	22:31
Jaffa	YES! Hermes has just updated 4 of my test contacts with PHONE NUMBERS from LinkedIn. Including internationalising them where the info on LinkedIn isn't already internationalised :-D	22:31
DocScrutinizer	mikki-kun: dcim vs DCIM	22:31
lcuk	+44 Jaffa :)	22:32
pwnguin	so things that work with either "FILENAME" and "filename" fail when applied to ext3	22:32
mikki-kun	mah >.< hopefully they make that better in maemo6 -.-	22:32
mikki-kun	and i hope it's available for the n900	22:32
DocScrutinizer	it's allegedly fixed since 1.1.1	22:32
mikki-kun	but is it really?	22:33
DocScrutinizer	check the ticket	22:33
DocScrutinizer	[2010-07-03 21:27:21] <ShadowJK> If you mount it manually you can't use it with the camera	22:33
DocScrutinizer	[2010-07-03 21:27:36] <ShadowJK> If you spend time modifying scripts and such, I'm told it'd work	22:33
GAN900	Jaffa, that's such a sad thing to be excited over. :P	22:34
Jaffa	GAN900: You've never had to deal with GLists, EVCard and EContacts in Python :-p	22:35
GAN900	Hehe	22:35
lbt	Jaffa: excellent!	22:36
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lbt	now... can you help me sync to egroupware and/or ldap ?	22:36
Jaffa	lbt: might have dinner instead, TBH	22:36
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lbt	heh... and when are you coming over?	22:36
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Jaffa	lbt: not quite sure. Next Saturday: got to tidy the house for new floor to be fitted; Sunday going to the British GP	22:39
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lbt	hows tomorrow	22:39
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Jaffa	lbt: may be able to pop down for a couple of hours. Mrs Jaffa & Jafflets are away, and although I've got jobs hopefully they'll smallificate themselves tonight.	22:40
lbt	hey, cool - I wasn't expecting that...	22:40
lbt	be great though	22:41
lbt	let me know... I'll be around all night and tomorrow	22:41
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Jaffa	lbt: I'll eat now. Try and get stuff done too	22:43
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yigal	Is there some way to get tagged bookmarks in microb?	22:47
MohammadAG51	infobot, maemosdk	22:48
infobot	i guess maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation	22:48
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yigal	I would prefer to use microb as it is faster than other other browsers, but tagged bookmarks, or some other means to organize bookmarks is essential.	22:50
jacekowski	ekhm	22:50
jacekowski	microb is slowest	22:50
jacekowski	opera is like 3x faster	22:50
jacekowski	and chromium is like 10x faster	22:51
jacekowski	but chromium has other issues	22:51
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mikki-kun	jacekowski: which issues does chromium have?	22:52
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yigal	I'll try Chromium then :) we all have issues	22:53
SpeedEvil	I fundamentally disagree about chromium being 10* faster	22:53
mikki-kun	hm, are chromium/opera/fennec installing /opt ?	22:54
mikki-kun	*installing in	22:54
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SpeedEvil	I have also seen no benchmarks of read performance of /opt differening importantly	22:54
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yigal	Microb seems faster than Firefox that's all I've really compared Microb to.	22:56
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mikki-kun	i am just asking for the sake of a clean rootfs ;)	22:56
MohammadAG51	rm -r... nvm	22:57
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* lcuk slaps MohammadAG51 with a frals		22:57
* MohammadAG51 slaps lcuk with a football		22:57
SpeedEvil	the recent 1.1 release of ff?	22:58
yigal	Yep	22:58
mikki-kun	MohammadAG51: that is a lil overkill on cleaning it =p	22:58
* lcuk volleys the ball over MohammadAG51s head and into the net		22:58
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yigal	I need to get tab working on n900 keyboard.	23:00
mikki-kun	hm, which operaversion is it we use when installing from the app-manager?	23:01
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* MohammadAG51 gets a golf ball		23:02
MohammadAG51	lcuk, golf?	23:02
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yigal	10-alpha1-3	23:03
mikki-kun	yigal: thanks so it seems opera mobile	23:03
lcuk	must be MohammadAG51 the match isnt grasping me	23:04
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yigal	Yes, mobile	23:07
mikki-kun	hm, curious what sets mobile from mini apart...	23:08
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mikki-kun	hm, i am trying now opera mobile and from the looks of it it ain't faster than microb	23:20
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FIQ	mikki-kun	23:26
FIQ	if you're looking for opera turbo	23:26
microlith	mikki-kun: mini does all the rendering remotely, mobile actually does rendering work on the device	23:26
FIQ	it should be in settings	23:26
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FIQ	but	23:26
mikki-kun	FIQ: i am comparing without any serversided help ;)	23:26
FIQ	i think it's slighty slower than mini	23:26
FIQ	but dunno about it	23:26
FIQ	mikki-kun, ah	23:27
mikki-kun	sure, opera turbo can improve it and save data, but i think that doesn't go quite fair with the rendering then when compared to other browsers without this kind of feature	23:27
mikki-kun	and i am not so sure about my data ^^	23:28
mikki-kun	could be that it gets transmitted in some way to their servers (haven't looked that deep into it, but will do it)	23:29
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crashanddie	microlith: well, not really, "rendering" is the wrong word here	23:32
lbt	X-Fade: ping.... nw seems broken on the OBS be	23:34
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FIQ	is there a video recorder of N900 somewhere?	23:44
FIQ	er	23:44
FIQ	s/video/screen/	23:44
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lcuk	FIQ, the simplest is to install x11vncserver and use some recorder on desktop to do the recording	23:45
FIQ	ah, and use Wi-Fi i guess	23:46
FIQ	not home for a week. :P	23:46
FIQ	but ok	23:46
FIQ	and by the way, everyone seems to complain about glitchy sound on m64p, works just fine here, but in some cirumstances, it makes the games slow down... just so you know - it's not buggy at all here	23:47
FIQ	tried f.e. RR@MK64, time trial, fullspeed w/sound	23:48
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jacekowski	http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-it-crowd/4od#3082365	23:51
jacekowski	- i just wanted to say you i'm not a windows cleaner	23:51
jacekowski	- macs?	23:51
jacekowski	- no, i really just work with windows.	23:51
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nas_	restricted content the link you send	23:54
jacekowski	it's UK only	23:57
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