IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-06-28

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DrGrovasj_: I am not a programmer myself but I do know other things.00:01
DrGrovasj_: Since the AutoDisconnect app could do disconnect why not do a AutoConnect app that does the reversed thing?00:01
DrGrovpahartik: yes, WCDMA not disabled. Can be chosen but not preferred by default.00:02
asj_DrGrov: that's effectively what I said, you can write it as a shell script, look up bash scripting, and dbus command line tools00:02
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ptlDrGrov: install dbus-scripts, it helps00:03
pahartikDrGrov: I do not know if current dual mobile uplink mode is implemented in userspace of Linux, but if it is... Preference of GPRS should be simple00:03
DrGrovasj_: I could start to look into it. Would be very interesting to see whether it can be done.00:03
DrGrovpahartik: yes, if it is implemented and probably it is somehow.00:04
DrGrovI think I will try to find out some more information first and then try to see what can be done.00:04
asj_DrGrov: it's trivial, imho, it's just can you do it :)00:04
DrGrovasj_: I am sure I can do it. I just need to get my greasy fat fuck fingers to work ;)00:05
asj_:)00:05
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DrGrovasj_: The only minor thing that I need is to get a good overview with scripting first. Especially dbus scripting.00:06
DrGrovI have mainly just built build-scripts for my desktop computer which were quite easy.00:06
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pahartikDrGrov: Source of "2G/3G/Dual Mode Selection Applet" could help?00:09
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DrGrovpahartik: yes, that will help tremendously00:10
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DrGrovIs it difficult to get a new bootsplash installed instead of the default Nokia with the two hands?00:27
MacerDrGrov: if you find out let me know ;)00:28
Maceri hate the nokia one too. used to be able to do it in maemo400:28
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DrGrovMacer: sure, i will tell you if I find out how to do it.00:30
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ruskieDrGrov, Macer there's a bootsplash selection app in the repos... install it and have fun00:35
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DrGrovruskie: which repos?00:37
ruskieextras or extras testing00:38
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ruskieor maybe devel00:38
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_0x471hiho!00:44
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_0x471what would you do if you'd have an package to upload but the autobuilder complains about it beeing in the repos already. I have (and need) a newer version of it...00:45
_0x471ERROR running /etc/buildme.d/check_build: Package sdl-mixer1.2 provides binary package libsdl-mixer1.2 which is also available on the device or Nokia repository. Build of this package has been prevented.00:45
ruskiehost it on your own repo... or just dpkg -i it yourself on the device00:45
_0x471i need it as an dependency for another one that I want to upload to extras-devel00:46
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_0x471can i not update the original package_00:46
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_0x471?00:46
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_0x471err, may I...00:46
_0x471?00:46
ruskieno clue00:47
_0x471hm k00:47
_0x471thanks anyway!00:47
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MohammadAG51patch the app to use old version00:48
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_0x471MohammadAG51: It is not a dependency, but turns somewhat out to really need it. I'm building from sources, so I cannot just lower the version of the dep. Well, I could actually try if it really works with this newer version (what I expect), but if yes I will end up still needing the updated version in the repos. No chance to update the existing version? It doesn't conflict with any other app normally.00:50
_0x471I guess it doesn't make sense to rename my package to something like libsdl-mixer1.2.8, does it?00:51
MohammadAG51ask X-Fade when he's on, but I doubt it's updatable00:51
_0x471here on IRC?00:52
MohammadAG51you could do that00:52
MohammadAG51yes, but he's idle on weekends00:52
MohammadAG51he's on atm, but idle00:52
_0x471MohammadAG51: but that would be nasty imho. Would you recommend to rename my package even if the correct name is like the existing one?00:52
_0x471k let me try to pm him00:53
Macerah00:53
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Maceruses an h264 avi?00:54
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ShadowJKIf you rename it, then you have to ensure that the files it installs do not conflict with the files the other package installs00:57
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_0x471ShadowJK: True, that is not an option, libs probably won't work very well being renamed00:57
_0x471Anyone had a similar situation? :/00:58
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cehtehwoops ...01:05
cehteh[10065.578735] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now closed01:05
cehteh[10065.772552] kb_lock (GPIO 113) is now open01:05
cehteh.. just happend while the device laying on the table01:05
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cehtehnothing moved there01:05
DocScrutinizer51can't mv sysnodes :-/01:05
asjcehteh: stop swipping magnets over it ;)01:06
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cehtehno didnt01:06
DocScrutinizer51err01:06
cehtehjust laying on the table playing webradio01:06
DocScrutinizer51EMP?01:06
asjsolar rays01:06
cehtehwhatever01:06
cehtehis that a reed or a hall-sensor?01:07
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DocScrutinizer51btw aren't  the timetags supercool?01:07
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DocScrutinizer51jiffies since epoch - what a shit01:07
cehtehnot that much, but useful sometimes01:07
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DocScrutinizer51cehteh: guess it's a hall01:08
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DocScrutinizer51or GMR or whatever01:08
cehtehwell i mounted the device in my neoprence case today on my bike, it got some vibration01:08
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cehtehbut well .. some vibration should be acceptable01:09
DocScrutinizer51sure01:09
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DocScrutinizer51meh, can't rename szsfs node, so need to hex patch mce :-(01:10
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DocScrutinizer51~lart MCE01:10
* infobot cuts off MCE's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper01:10
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Jef91Anyone not able to get on the ovi store with the n900?01:11
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Jef91keeps telling me my device is not supported01:11
asjthere's something on the Ovi store?01:11
DocScrutinizer51I wish I never was able to ovi01:12
crashanddieI just posted my longest post on TMO01:13
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crashanddiehttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=731976&postcount=3101:13
DocScrutinizer51OMFG01:13
* asj reads the first line, then skips to the end01:13
asjwow, crashanddie and has a gf?01:14
asj;)01:14
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cehtehNokia-N900:~# swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p301:14
cehtehKilled01:14
cehtehmhm :)01:14
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DocScrutinizer51lol01:15
GAN900crashanddie, not impressed.01:15
crashanddiepiss off01:15
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asjI think passing on information is good, the problem with forum posts, like email, no one reads long ones01:17
crashanddieI was bored as the gf was watching "Le Grand Bleu"01:17
SpeedEvilasj: sorry, tl;dr01:17
asjI get bored during most french movies too ;)01:17
SpeedEvilasj: I only read lines under 25 chars.01:18
asjSpeedEvil: that was ~35 chars01:18
DocScrutinizer51does not parse01:18
SpeedEvilAh - but I don't need to read what I write.01:19
asjSpeedEvil: hehe01:19
SpeedEvilIndeed, I often type with my eyes shut.01:19
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DocScrutinizer51evidently01:19
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DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil> asj: sorry, tl;dr01:20
SpeedEvilhttp://encyclopediadramatica.com/Tl;dr01:20
Jef91is there a way I can add facebook to my sharing accounts for video and images on the n900?01:20
crashanddieSpeedEvil: he meant that I am the one who wrote the post, not asj01:20
SpeedEvilAh01:21
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luke-jrhmm01:21
luke-jrN900 says it supports (E)GSM 1700 MHz...01:21
* SpeedEvil tends to write stuff at times that is too long.01:21
asjJef91: yes...it's built in01:21
luke-jrso I guess if the modem firmware was open, we could port it to CDMA 1700? ;)01:21
DocScrutinizer51that link scares me01:21
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SpeedEvilOops.01:22
SpeedEvilI meant to link to urbandictionary.01:22
SpeedEvilWhich is generally a little more sane than encyclopediadramatica01:22
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FredrIQtoo long01:23
FredrIQdidn't read01:23
asjSpeedEvil: tl;dr ;)01:23
FredrIQ=tl;dr01:23
FredrIQnp01:23
DocScrutinizer51luke-jr: ???? o.O01:23
cehteh[14720.587188] wl1251: ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up01:23
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DocScrutinizer51reread01:23
asjI love the Ayne Rand, atlas shurgged tl;dr01:23
cehtehalso nice .. better dont look under the carpet ;P01:23
SpeedEvil:)01:24
DocScrutinizer51cehteh: what the hell did you do?01:24
cehtehnothing .. just rebooted01:25
luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: what was unclear?01:25
cehtehwell i have the power-kernel now01:25
DocScrutinizer51gsm170001:25
cehtehand maybe my crappy AP influences that too01:25
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer51: the booklet says so01:25
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DocScrutinizer51hmm. later01:25
DocScrutinizer51no booklet now01:26
luke-jrjust trust me then :P01:26
cehtehgiving ext4 another try now01:26
luke-jrpoint being it's the same frequency used for CDMA here01:26
luke-jrcehteh: fail01:26
cehtehluke-jr: huh?01:26
DocScrutinizer51I don't. I asked for reread01:27
DocScrutinizer51careful reread01:27
luke-jrjournal on flash = trouble01:27
SpeedEvilIs there a way to remove an incorrect thumb on a package?01:27
cehtehluke-jr: why that?01:27
SpeedEvilI thumbed the wrong package version.01:27
lcukSpeedEvil, cigar cutters remove thumbs01:27
luke-jrcehteh: flash isn't write-in-order01:27
cehtehnote that ext3 has also journal on flash01:27
luke-jrcehteh: I use ext201:27
cehtehand ubifs maybe too01:27
cehtehluke-jr: /home is ext3 by default01:27
luke-jrubifs doesn't have a block emulation layer to go through01:27
SpeedEvilSpecifically, I have a version of a program installed from extras-devel - not testing - and I hadn't realised I was accidentally reviewing that01:27
luke-jrcehteh: Nokia fail01:27
luke-jron my most recent SSD install, I did ext4 minus journal ;)01:28
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cehtehlast time i tried ext4 was *much* faster than ext3 ...01:28
cehtehyeah but i dont think 2.6.28 can handle no-journal ext4 already01:28
luke-jrext4-minus-journal will be faster than both01:28
ruskiecrashanddie, I wish I could give you a thanks on that pot...01:28
cehtehi can try .. backing up first01:29
luke-jrcehteh: Ubuntu 10.04 can01:29
luke-jrjust need to edit /etc/mke2fs.conf before formatting01:29
luke-jrremove journal from the ext4 options01:29
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cehtehyes i forgotten when this was added to the kernel, but i think later than .2801:29
luke-jranyhow, journal is *always* bad for performance01:29
luke-jrit exists to prevent data loss, but on flash-block actually increases data risk01:30
cehtehi was playing with no-journal on DVD-RAM media some time ago and i remember when i started my kernel was to old for that01:30
cehtehjournal is not always bad01:30
crashanddieruskie: :)01:30
luke-jrjournal on flash-block is :p01:30
cehtehif you place the journal on a extra device it might improve performance01:30
luke-jr...01:30
SpeedEvilJournaling FS canbe good for flash.01:31
luke-jrSpeedEvil: that's not the same as a simple journal01:31
cehtehanyways delalloc and extents give a huge performance boost01:31
luke-jrjournal only works if it can be written before the actual changes are made01:31
luke-jrdue to the nature of block-emulation on SD cards and such, there is no such guarantee01:31
cehtehluke-jr: well i was thinking SD-cards emulate write ordering01:31
luke-jrcehteh: IIRC, they don't01:32
cehtehso you dont know? :)01:32
luke-jrIIRCD01:32
luke-jrIIRC*01:32
cehteh:P01:32
luke-jrit would be silly if they did01:32
luke-jrsince write ordering is more wear01:32
cehtehwell i just put ext4 on it .. at worst some files written to get damaged01:32
_0x471ls -lah01:32
_0x471oh01:33
_0x471lol01:33
_0x471sry01:33
luke-jrcehteh: at worst, the whole FS is destroyed :)01:33
cehtehnah01:33
cehtehextfs fsck is quite good :P01:33
luke-jrgood at making corruption worse101:33
luke-jr!01:33
luke-jr:p01:34
cehtehwell and MyDoc and mmc1 isnt that important for the device operation, as long i backup there is no problem01:34
FredrIQthis is how fiq is doing a modify of FS:01:34
FredrIQ* don't ever backup, it takes too much time01:34
FredrIQ* just do the job01:35
luke-jr....................01:35
FredrIQam i doing smth wrong? :301:35
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FredrIQi've been lucky this far01:37
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cehtehmhm no ionice ... ok i didnt really expect it01:38
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cehtehbut stuttering webradio while rsyncing sux01:39
FredrIQok, this: it's uncommon that i have something important stored on my computer01:40
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FredrIQthe worst thing that could happen is that i lose my irclogs01:40
FredrIQor smth01:40
FredrIQdon't really care01:40
FredrIQif i _have_ smth important01:40
FredrIQwhich has happened ONE time01:40
FredrIQi backup01:40
cehtehnokia used awesomely fast eMMC chips :P01:41
cehteh*yawn*01:41
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cehtehcopying from µSD to mmc at 1MB/sec01:41
DocScrutinizerouch01:42
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FredrIQvery fast card01:42
ShadowJKThe card itself does about 6M sequential write01:43
SpeedEvilcehteh: nothing to do with that01:43
DocScrutinizeryes01:43
DocScrutinizerprobably a buffer issue01:43
SpeedEvilcehteh: dd will get you ~10 meg or better read and write01:43
ShadowJKbut with 3 different things on it, it becomes random I/O, and that's friggin slow01:43
cehtehfs overhead01:43
ShadowJKmmc/sd is like a tape drive, it's fast as long as there are no seeks :P01:44
SpeedEvilNo.01:44
SpeedEvilIt's fast as long as there are no seeks to write.01:44
DocScrutinizernot really01:44
SpeedEvilSeeks to read are _much_ less painful.01:44
DocScrutinizermore like that01:44
SpeedEvil(though not free)01:44
ShadowJKright, random reads are fastish still :)01:44
SpeedEvilAnd surprisingly, the two busses aren't that contended.01:44
SpeedEvilDo dd if=/dev/mmc0 and dd if=/dev/mmc1 at the same time - and you get a speed of almost double.01:45
DocScrutinizeranyway, need to feed the ATM with a 10EUR note, so the withdrawal for the uUSB->mini-USB adapter won't fail :-S cya01:46
SpeedEvilwave.01:46
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DocScrutinizeron a sidenote: I remember some 30 years ago some camera frak told me he always cleans his lenses with cigarette papers, as the soft cloth of paper towels catches hard dust and scratches it over the lens surface, while hard paper pushes away every dust particles. Wonder if same applies to touchscreens, or it's a urban legend all together01:52
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: if I start hijacking #Maemo for a game, will I get banned?01:53
DocScrutinizer(obviously I was just cleaning the ts with a towel)01:53
DocScrutinizerdunno, try it :-P01:54
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luke-jr]y01:54
ljrbotA yandere game is starting in 60 seconds! Please type "]yandere" to join.01:54
DocScrutinizerthe way you feel you should ask this, it sugests the answer is yes01:54
luke-jrbad logic01:55
luke-jrjoin :P01:55
luke-jrcehteh, ShadowJK, and SpeedEvil too01:55
DocScrutinizerI leave01:55
luke-jraww01:55
ljrbotWe don't have enough players yet. We need at least 4 players to start a game. I'll wait for another 60 seconds. Please type "]yandere" to join.01:55
Ken-YoungThe doctor *can't* leave #maemo!01:56
FredrIQyandere...01:56
FredrIQnever heard about01:56
FredrIQmaybe it's just in wrong language01:56
FredrIQ(that i know the swe but not the eng word of it)01:56
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luke-jrFredrIQ: it's a Japanese word01:56
ljrbotThere aren't enough players to start a yandere game. Try again later.01:56
FredrIQah01:56
luke-jrI don't think there's an English equivalent01:56
FredrIQok then01:56
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FredrIQthen i've not played it ever i guess01:57
* ShadowJK forgets which is which01:57
luke-jrSpeedEvil: lrn2ask nicely?01:57
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luke-jrFredrIQ: it's like mafia01:57
ShadowJKand I don't think I want to know01:57
luke-jr]part nobody interested01:57
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ShadowJKisn't yakuza like mafia..01:59
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luke-jrnever heard of yakuza01:59
luke-jrperm Yandere channel is #yandere FWIW01:59
ShadowJKI think yandere is like this word describing a stereotypical mental female02:00
ShadowJKbut I forget in what way mental02:00
luke-jrpsychotic and violent, too02:00
luke-jrthe game starts with the yandere killing someone off02:00
luke-jr:p02:00
ShadowJK"Japanese term for a person who is initially very loving and gentle to someone before their devotion becomes destructive in nature, often through violence."02:01
luke-jrhttp://launchpad.net/yandere ;)02:03
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* luke-jr ponders a global real-time yandere for Maemo users02:03
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MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, you're forgetting something :)02:04
luke-jreg, GPS needs to register within N km of the target's current/last GPS location to spy/etc on them02:04
SpeedEvilMohammadAG51: I'm forgetting a lot.02:04
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MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, +o :)02:05
SpeedEvilOh - missed that02:06
FredrIQ"oh - missed that" and forgetting to put it off02:06
luke-jrlol02:07
FredrIQ£away afk02:07
FredrIQups02:07
FredrIQfailing on that with the /nickserv identify would be... well, fail02:07
FredrIQanyway, afk02:07
luke-jrpretty common02:07
luke-jr:P02:07
FredrIQheh02:07
timeless_mbphey, anyone here use microb w/ news.google.com?02:08
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timeless_mbpi've been using http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/mmcu.tar to make my life less painful...02:08
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asjtimeless_mbp: I have on and off, grr works better most of the time imho02:16
asjtimeless_mbp: and cursor mode helps since kb shortcuts work, mainly space etc02:16
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jacekowskihttp://i.imgur.com/Yd4xq.png02:16
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timeless_mbpasj: give that file a try02:17
timeless_mbpextract it from ~02:17
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* SpeedEvil is unsure it's possible to deop with pidgin.02:19
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tybollthow do I make the maps I download go on eMMC and not mem card?02:21
timeless_mbpdon't have a memory card? :)02:21
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GAN900Classy dude right here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=731940&postcount=3902:24
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MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, /deop already :P02:25
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SpeedEvilI can't.02:26
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SpeedEviloh02:26
SpeedEvilmeh02:26
SpeedEvilpidgin was being spectacularly unhelpful02:26
MohammadAG51lol :p02:26
SpeedEvilI'm sure I tried that before.02:26
ptldoes anyone know something about SMS message decodifying?02:27
SpeedEvilptl: it'you mean taking out of 'PDU' format?02:27
SpeedEvilptl: it's just a wierd 7 letter alphabet. (well, in the 'west')02:27
SpeedEvilhttp://www.dreamfabric.com/sms/02:27
ptlI've got some messages that come with header data format 00000000, and that's usual 7-bits format; others that come with header 00001000 and that's 16-bit format; but I've got some that come from the web as 00000010 and it's some crazy encoding I can't figure out.02:28
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ptl:-/02:28
ptlSpeedEvil: yes, the program I use decodes both the 7-bit alphabet and the UTF-16 alphabet02:28
ptlbut there's something else02:28
ptland judgin by the array of bytes, that has a smaller length than the actual message, it must be a compressed format like 7-bits02:30
ptl49 data bytes corresponded to 59 text characters02:30
ptlI've read dreamfabric's description,  no clue to what's happening to me02:31
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SpeedEvilWhat happens if you send them to a normal phone?02:33
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SpeedEvilAlso - as a first cut - if this is something a reasonable user might do, and it doesn't work with n900 - submit a bug.02:34
* SpeedEvil sings "Every Bug is sacred" - to the tune of a similar name from The Meaning Of Life.02:35
rasterevery bug is good02:35
rasterand if a bug is wasted...02:35
ptlthe protocol identifier header shows as 0111001002:35
ptlSpeedEvil: N900 decodes them correctly02:35
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ptlSpeedEvil: and correctly shows the string: web: (www.torpedogratis.net) Some message Patola02:36
ptlSpeedEvil: I need to know how to do that.02:36
SpeedEvilisn't the bit that decodes them opensource?02:36
SpeedEvilor is that just the db they are stored in02:36
ptlIs it?02:36
ptlI dunno02:36
SpeedEvilUnsure02:36
ptl:(02:37
ptland I don't even know how to search for that bit02:38
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ptlsome system daemon? part of hildon-something?02:38
SpeedEvildunno02:39
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ptl:[02:40
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.google.de/search?q=site:http://nobbi.com/+pdu&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-802:40
ptlyes but I thought it couldn't be the 8-bits format since the length of the byte array was smaller than the length of the text message.02:42
ptlpduspy? hmm, lemme see02:43
ptlseems nice, a good tool to help me out on that. Thanks, DocScrutinizer51. Do you know if it works in Wine?02:45
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DocScrutinizersorry, no idea. What's Wine? :-P02:45
DocScrutinizera drink created in Redmond?02:46
ptlIt works!!! Nice!!02:46
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ptlDocScrutinizer51: Found it! Thanks!02:55
ptl"no SMSC header (according to TS 3GPP 23.040)02:56
ptlnow to understand what this means... lol02:56
ptlanyway, PDUspy decoded it correctly.02:59
asjptl: trying to implement the IPoverSMS protocol that was on /. last week?03:01
ptlasj: I don't know what you are talking about... I don't think so, I was just trying to figure out the format of a weird SMS I got on my phone; N900 decoded it correctly but my python program didn't.03:01
asjptl: some US Uni published some protocol, or study of moving largish quantities of data over SMS. Mainly targeted at poor areas with I can't remember what problems03:03
ptlasj: definitely not that03:03
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SpeedEvilasj: insane03:07
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SpeedEvilIf SMSs happen to be free there - they will _very_ rapidly stop people taking the piss like that.03:08
asjSpeedEvil: they were moving on the order of 16,000 smss03:08
* DocScrutinizer wonders which of the 5 cigars to smoke now03:08
SpeedEvilyes03:08
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MohammadAG51the 6th one DocScrutinizer03:08
SpeedEvilasj: here that would cost me 1600 pounds or so (on my current tarrif)03:08
SpeedEvilAround $250003:08
asjSpeedEvil: that's cheap, we used to pay 0.25/message, so $4000, receiver paid too, so $800003:09
DocScrutinizerdamn, some idiots did same shit with ISDN pre-call signalling03:09
MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, the LEDs in torch mode are safe to run for say... 2-3 hours right?03:09
DocScrutinizerand I think even with SMS03:09
SpeedEvilMohammadAG51: I believe so.03:09
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: yes03:10
SpeedEvilMohammadAG51: I've had them on for 5 hours, wih no measured depreciation in light output with my lux meter.03:10
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MohammadAG51thanks :)03:10
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: fair enough03:10
asjI think an argument was robustness in low bw areas or something.  Presumably this would need the cooperation of the telco.03:10
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SpeedEvilIt's basically 'I can't think of anything sane to write a thesis on'.03:11
SpeedEvilIMO.03:11
asjSpeedEvil: hehe, touche03:11
* DocScrutinizer remembers his 6210 (1999) had a setting "WAP over SMS / WAP over APN"03:12
DocScrutinizerso probably that's a rather poor choice for a thesis03:12
DocScrutinizermaybe write a thesis about ping?03:13
DocScrutinizerequally exciting03:14
asjhttp://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/25364/ -- ah Waterloo, and it was 80,000 messages, lol03:14
DocScrutinizersounds familiar, yes03:15
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DocScrutinizernah, that's again the epigons03:16
DocScrutinizerbeen there, seen that, 10 years ago03:17
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asjDocScrutinizer: agreed, I don't see why it's that new...other than rural china is getting cell towers now, so they get 10 year old ideas recycled03:17
DocScrutinizeryes, and they do same shit again, ruining a nice service by abusing it03:18
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DocScrutinizerwe had some SMS alike transfer of data with ISDN call establishing (some text shows up in your phone's display when inbound call rings) - some idiot invented an 'alternative' to dial-up daza connections supposedly free of charge. 2 weeks later the service was disabled on all ISDN networks03:20
SpeedEvilThere are valuable things to be done with SMS.03:21
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DocScrutinizerthe SMS-irc/or_twitter/or_whatever gateway is even some years older, and went along the same line, when SMS was for free here in Germany03:21
SpeedEvilGait analysis, typing analysis, and lexical analysis, with input from GPS, to prevent drunk texting.03:21
asjSpeedEvil: is stopping drunk texting really the most important thing people should be putting time into? People have to grow up some how03:23
asjand nothing like your ex-gf sending your drunk txt to all your friends for you to learn ;)03:23
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cehtehluke-jr: fyi the n900 power-kernel doesnt support no-journal ext403:29
* DocScrutinizer wonders how the FSCK the "power kernel" has managed to get into extras03:30
asjDocScrutinizer: not -devel?03:31
DocScrutinizernope,03:31
asjwow....that would seem a tad dangerous to unleash03:31
DocScrutinizerfound it in HAM when there was NO additional repo enabled03:31
cehtehits a dependecy of mobilehotspot :)03:31
DocScrutinizeryeah, nuke mobilehotspot for that03:31
asjand mobilehotspot shouldn't be in extras based on my use of it last week03:32
cehtehwell really i dont know, and i dont recommend that kernel to anyone03:32
cehtehbut its good that its there03:32
DocScrutinizerbut not in EXTRAS!!03:32
cehtehyes in extras ...03:32
DocScrutinizerok, I'll promote my SoC-fry app to extras then03:33
cehtehawareness and discoverability outweight is drawbacks03:33
cehtehdo that03:33
DocScrutinizercehteh: that's mere BS.03:33
cehtehwell for me it came with mobilehotspot but mobilehotspot didnt worked yet03:33
cehtehbut while at it i tried some other things .. hey finally i overclock to 750Mhz and doing some undervolting03:34
DocScrutinizerawareness and discoverability are exactly what forbids a potetially hazardous hacker thing like power kernel in extras, which by definition is considered safe03:34
asjfrom a purely pragmatic point of view, I think the prime concern is how safe is the isntall/removal.  If it bricks to many devices you don't want nokia seeing it as a failure of the community system and stomping their foot03:34
cehtehactually this gives a decent battery boost .. i was biking 5 hours today with mappero running and lost only 2 battery bars03:35
cehtehwith the default kernel and gps battery was almost flat after 4 hours03:35
DocScrutinizercehteh: sorry, you're an id.. err dangerously uninformed. Undervolting doesn't help anything except a minimal reduce in power consumption03:36
cehtehasj: yeah install/deinstall works, the power kernel people did a great job meanwhile03:36
DocScrutinizerit won't fix or minimize the damage done by overclocking03:36
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asjcehteh: it's not about working once, or twice it's about working 100k times. a 1% failure rate mean 1000 bricked phones03:36
cehtehthats why i dont try insane overclocking most of the time my device is below 600Mhz anyways03:37
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cehtehand evidence speaks against you .. i was biking 2 weeks ago with exactly the same but stock kernel and it sucked way more battery03:37
pythercehteh: so you just installed the power user kernel and get improved battery or was there something else you did?03:37
cehtehpyhimys: configuring this undervolting/overclocking stuff .. by default it should work like the stock kernel (but it does not!)03:38
cehtehpyther:03:38
asjI had it installed last week (with no tweeks, no overclocking) and it seems playing mp3s is ate more power than normal.03:38
cehtehwell .. actually Maep crashes the device .. but well it did that before too, but now way more often03:38
pythercehteh: it doesn't automagically under/over clock does it?03:39
cehtehno it does not03:39
cehtehand by enabling a lot other stuff in the kernel i could imagine that it needs little more juice03:39
pytherok, then I probably will simply prefer to stick with the stock kernel03:40
cehtehbut this things are really hard to measure so i am careful03:40
DocScrutinizercehteh: that's mere handwaving03:40
cehtehDocScrutinizer: well yes, i just 'think' it works for me, actually i am pretty sure (for this specific use-case)03:40
cehtehbut i dont recommend or expect that it works for anyone else03:41
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cehtehi mean using 40% less battery charge is something i notice, whatever you try to tell me :)03:41
DocScrutinizercehteh: you claim it has better power management, by doing ONE(!!!) test, you don't know anything about reduced lifetime of the SoC, and your rationale is mere guessing03:42
cehtehlemme see if i can locate the bike trip 2 weeks ago on battery graph03:42
DocScrutinizerI get 40% less battery consumption, when it's weekend and low traffic on IRC03:42
cehtehi had irc off on both occations03:43
DocScrutinizerno undervolting shit03:43
cehtehjust mapper03:43
pytherDocScrutinizer: you use your n900 for irc all the time?03:43
DocScrutinizeruhuh, and you probably also had GPRS disabled aka flightmode, yes?03:43
cehtehi often do too03:43
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: nope GSM ..03:44
asjpyther: sounds like a challenge, how much traffic can we send to DocScrutinizer  before his battery dies and he falls offline ;)03:44
DocScrutinizereven with GSM without ANY data connection you possibly can suck a battery to flat in 4h, merely by cell handover03:44
cehtehyeah .. i'll watch it some more times03:45
cehtehmaybe i should bike exactly the same route again with the power kernel :P03:46
pytherasj: haha03:46
pytherI got about 6-7 hrs using my phone straight installing new software and playing with it03:46
pytherof course I had a brand new battery03:46
asjcehteh: it's not a fair test.  You need to buy a 2nd n900 and have them both side-by-side03:46
cehtehasj: i have xchat over openvpn and about 30 channels open .. at home on wlan battery lasts about 12-14 hours this way03:47
* pahartik installed "kernel-power" immediately because IPv6 is specific requirement for my "Nokia N900"03:47
asjand a power meter between the battery and device on both, since the bats aren't the same03:47
SpeedEvilThere is already a power meter inside the n90003:47
cehtehyeah i now try ext4 again (did that long time ago with t-tans kernel)03:48
SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Charge_Meter03:48
cehtehthe overclocking/undervolting is just a plaything but there are a lot other useful things in the power kernel03:48
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: the Cortex has no self-protection when overheating or anything like that (SM mode?)03:49
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SpeedEvilNo.03:56
SpeedEvil(and the damage is not due to overheating)03:56
cehtehwell at some point its due oveheating03:58
lcukpyther, most people technically have poorer battery the first time they start installing/playing with everything03:58
lcukbecause they overload device and are always busy etc03:58
lcukpleased you had a positive experience and hope it lasts03:59
cehtehafter few weeks battery improves because you use the device less often .. and then battery degrading sets in :P03:59
lcuki havent noticed03:59
lcukmy battery gets better and better as patches to os come in03:59
cehtehwell i dont treat my battery well03:59
lcuk:) and ive got the oldest device around04:00
lcukcehteh, i abuse my device horribly04:00
lcukits a good job there isnt a protection society for them04:00
cehtehat home i leave it connected to usb or charger all day long04:00
cehtehi prefer to have a full battery when i leave the house04:00
lcukdo you leave screen on whilst charging04:00
cehtehno04:00
lcukreasonable04:01
cehtehwell liion dont like constantly at full charge .. mine degraded already a bit04:01
cehtehanyways i watch and see if this normal-form-factor 1700mah 3rd party batteries are at least half decent (thats more than 1320mah)04:02
lcukcehteh, are you sure you did not just settle with a rather full working set of apps04:02
cehtehdepends usually i dont have too much open04:03
cehtehwebradio/mp3 almost always, and then sometimes few browser windows and whatever else i need04:04
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jaem_n900Mornin'04:09
Ken-YoungEvenin'04:10
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ptlNight04:11
jaem_n900I've found a bug that seems to be triggered in Hildon-Desktop by a specific widget.  Should I file that under H-D or the widget itself?04:11
SpeedEvilIf the widget is conforming to the API - then hildon04:12
Ken-YoungI'd file it under H-D.04:12
jaem_n900SpeedEvil, it's OMWeather, so I'd assume so.04:13
Ken-YoungWell written code should be bullet proof.04:13
jaem_n900Thanks.04:13
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* GAN900 doesn't know why we had to change the name for the MeeGo "Conference"04:14
GAN900What a depressingly corporate introduction04:14
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jaem_n900Oh, it's no longer a Summit? Lame.04:16
GAN900Monday-Wednesday, too.04:16
GAN900How anti-community.04:16
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onemanHi04:34
jaem_n900hello04:35
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onemanIncase anyone is interested, I have reverse engineered the network protocol of the FiOS TV Mobile Remote, if you have FiOS TV it is now possible to control your set top box via a Network. I have released the software here: http://github.com/oneman/FiosRemote Need testers!04:36
SpeedEvil:)04:36
onemanThe reversing came from the android verizion fios mobile remote software, so now someone could write a special or generic remote control software for maemo and use the knowledge in that code to make it compatible with controlling FiOS TV STB's over a network04:38
jaem_n900Awesome!  Good one!04:38
jaem_n900I live in the Barren Wastelands of the North, where we don't have such magical things - otherwise I'd be right on it. :P04:39
jaem_n900er... Canada, that is.04:39
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onemanaye04:40
jaem_n900oneman: do you have reference code, or just specs?04:41
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onemanReference code mainly, I havn't fully documented the protocol, but I would talk to anyone about it who is interested04:42
jaem_n900Hmm... well, as I said, I can't be of much help.  I'm wondering, though... wasn't there a generic remote control app for Diablo that had a network backend of some sort?04:44
jaem_n900Let me grab my N81004:44
jaem_n900...from my belt.04:44
jaem_n900I'm sick - this is an effort. :P  (okay, just a cold...)04:44
ohwhymehows the usb otg?04:44
jaem_n900ohwhyme: on the N900?04:45
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ohwhymeyup04:45
ohwhymecant really check the progress anymore since the thread is closed04:45
jaem_n900Oh, I missed that.  Did it devolve into inanity?04:45
DocScrutinizerohwhyme: there's another thread where any real progress will get reported04:47
SpeedEvilohwhyme: If it's working, it will be widely trumpeted.04:47
ohwhymeah04:47
ohwhymethanks :)04:47
SpeedEvilcurrently progress is a bit stalled.04:47
ohwhymeanyone watch the england vs germany game?04:47
SpeedEvilohwhyme: several tens of thousands.04:48
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jaem_n900oneman, yeah, irreco was it, as I thought.04:48
ptlwho won?04:48
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jaem_n900Maybe take a look-see at what writing a backend for it would take.04:48
ohwhymegermany 4-104:48
ohwhymealthough lampard should have gotten a goal04:48
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DocScrutinizerohwhyme: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52227&page=1804:49
DocScrutinizerjaem_n900: oneman: that's lirc basically04:49
DocScrutinizerirreco based on lirc04:50
jaem_n900DocScrutinizer: Isn't lirc just one backend for it?04:50
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jaem_n900I don't know much about the app, but that's how it appears to be packaged.04:50
DocScrutinizerlirc is the engine, irreco is the GUI04:51
DocScrutinizeraiui04:51
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DocScrutinizerlirc has a socket afaik, probably irreco is controlling lirc that way04:52
jaem_n900http://irreco.garage.maemo.org/documentation.html - First bit04:52
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* SpeedEvil finds a kernel bug.05:20
SpeedEvil echo 1 >/proc/timer_stats;sleep 5;echo 0 >/proc/timer_stats ;cat /proc/timer_stats05:20
SpeedEvilTHERE IS NO AWK!05:20
SpeedEvil(Ok, it's a really minor bug)05:20
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Mr_Vuholaaaa06:13
Mr_Vucomo estan?06:13
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pytherI want to copy all my music to my device what is the bestway to do this?06:32
SpeedEvilwhat form is your music in? Wax cylinders, or sheet music?06:33
pytherSpeedEvil: mp3 and ogg06:34
hardakerusb cable; though over the air will work too.06:34
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hardakerusb cable is faster for that much data.06:34
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pytherhardaker: how would I do it over the air?06:34
pytherwith ssh?06:34
hardakeryep.06:34
hardaker(or rsync if you need to match it up later again)06:34
hardaker(which is really rsync over ssh)06:35
pytherand how would I make it so the user is set to 'user'06:35
SpeedEvildoesn't matter06:35
SpeedEvilmydocs is vfat06:35
SpeedEvilit does not support users06:35
pytherahh ok06:35
pytherthat is cool06:35
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SpeedEvilIt's really not.06:35
asjpyther: I hope you're not moving gigs and gigs ota06:35
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pytherasj: I'm gonna hook up the usb cable for the inital transfer06:36
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pytherwhere should I put the music? MyDocs/.sounds?06:36
asjI do MyDocs/Music06:36
pytherasj: can I point the music player there?06:36
asjI beleive it searches then entire mmc06:37
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pytherahh okay cool06:37
luke-jr[22:35:32] <SpeedEvil> It's really not.06:38
luke-jrlol06:38
pytherthanks now time to rsync the collection06:41
pytherrsync will work great because if I delete music from my device it'll also delete it from my computer and vice versa06:42
hardakerI'm always tempted to reformat the mmc to something other than vfat.  it's not like I ever connect the device to something that wouldn't undertand it.06:42
RST38hmoo all06:44
RST38hhardaker: the wear leveling algorithms inside the card's controller are usually optimized for vfat06:45
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SpeedEvil[[citation needed]]06:46
SpeedEvilIn principle, nokia might actually be able to extract more details on this.06:46
SpeedEvilbut...06:46
hardakerRST38h: Ah, that's where the stupidity lies.  sigh.06:47
pythercan the media player use files on the mmc and sd card at the same time06:47
SpeedEvilno.06:47
SpeedEvilIt can only play one file at once.06:47
pytherbut can it index both06:48
pytherso music from the mmc and ssd will be in the music database06:48
SpeedEvilthe media player does not touch files06:48
SpeedEvilat least that's the concept06:48
SpeedEvilit only looks at the tracker database06:48
SpeedEvilIt can also be passed filenames, but tha'ts not how the 'browse' functions work.06:48
SpeedEvilThere is no way to browse a directory say.06:49
luke-jrSpeedEvil: there's a nice long writeup in LKML somewhere on flash cards and vfat06:49
pythermmc: Three Days Grace06:49
luke-jrSpeedEvil: basically, if the flash card thinks you're using vfat, it will pre-clear blocks that are marked as deleted06:49
pythersd: Linkin Park06:49
luke-jrmaking the wear-levelling more effective06:49
pythernow will the media player show both 3 days grace and linkin park in the browse screen?06:49
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: I linked to that - as far as I can see - that's speculative.06:50
SpeedEvildunno06:51
SpeedEvilpyther: oh06:51
SpeedEvilpyther: It doesn't work like that06:51
SpeedEvilThe tracker scans all filesystems it's been told to.06:51
SpeedEvilIt then bundles these up into lists of albums or tracks.06:52
SpeedEvilThe media player then shows these.06:52
SpeedEvilIt doesn't make any difference at all where they are06:52
pytherok, so then does the tracker scan the sd card? If not is it possible to make the tracker scan the card?06:52
SpeedEvilYes, and yes.06:53
pythersweet06:53
brolin_empey1Any ideas why I cannot get a reliable wireless LAN connection for my N900 with my Siemens SE567 (Telus) wireless ADSL gateway at home? :(06:54
RST38hone of them sucks.06:55
pytherSpeedEvil: I have seen media players that couldn't do that06:55
RST38hguess which one.06:55
SpeedEvilpyther: And teh n900s media player can;'t do browse by directory.06:55
SpeedEvilpyther: It will - for example - for some reason not pickup that a bunch of tracks ina  directory should be treated as an album.06:56
pytherSpeedEvil: yah I figured that out, but it isn't a huge deal, for the most part my files are all tagged correctly06:56
SpeedEvilWhich kind of sucks06:56
brolin_empey1RST38h: My gateway?06:57
RST38hright.06:58
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brolin_empey1RST38h: I was hoping someone had a suggestion before I try replacing my gateway.07:03
RST38hwell, try switching off power saving on the n90007:04
RST38hbut your battery will run out real fast07:04
luke-jrlol07:04
luke-jrgrr07:05
luke-jris it possible to get the N900 to keep the GPS online always?07:05
luke-jrI added the desktop widget hoping that would do it, but as soon as the screen turns off it deactivates -.-07:05
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brolin_empey1RST38h: We use DD-WRT on a Linksys WRT54GL v1.1 at work, which works well.  I am considering buying a WRT54GL so I can use the same combination at home.  I also have a different wireless ADSL gateway Telus gave me.  It is a D-Link, which is usually bleh++, but I could at least try it before buying a WRT54GL.07:09
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* RST38h uses DLink DI-624. Never had problems with it.07:17
RST38hThe stuff you get for free is usually substandard though.07:18
* brolin_empey1 is going to try the D-Link.07:24
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IzzehOis there an optimized chromium project for maemo yet?07:35
IzzehOon capped net and MicroB just doesn't handle slow connections07:35
asjisn't there opera?07:36
IzzehOFind that doesn't handle it anywhere near as well07:38
asjdid you turn on "Turbo" mode?07:38
IzzehOWas curious anyway as to whether there is a decent GUI for chromium yet07:38
IzzehOturbo has never worked for m07:39
IzzehOactually to be fair.. haven't tried it on latest versions07:39
asjnever had a problem with it...07:40
IzzehOmm yeah just tried it.. it's definitely faster07:40
IzzehOMicroB just gives up altogether loading graphically heavy pages..07:40
IzzehObut turbo appears to be working07:40
asjused to use it on edge and gprs all the time, it's not like there's any options for it07:40
IzzehOI tried a fair while ago with it and it simply would time out07:40
asjhuh07:41
IzzehOwould get errors of not being able to connect07:41
IzzehOno matter.. it works now.. thanks for the reminder07:41
asjnp,, hope it helps07:42
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DocScrutinizermoo08:19
DocScrutinizerbug #1080808:19
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10808 kernel oops on activating heartbeat trigger08:19
asjbaaaah08:19
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DocScrutinizer"fast shutdown" :-P08:20
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brolin_empeyRST38h: The D-Link box Telus gave me is definitely substandard:  it is completely useless to me because I cannot make it use 192.168.0.2/24 instead of the shitty default 192.168.1.254/24. (epic fail)  It also still has some info from a previous customer.08:29
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tank-manbrolin_empey, want to know a secret08:54
tank-manget the telus tv and you can get free internet from the back of the box08:54
tank-manthe new telus tv08:55
brolin_empeytank-man: Can I get Telus TV for less than the $25 or so per month I am currently paying for ADSL only?08:57
tank-mani have shaw. I only know that much about telus08:58
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brolin_empeytank-man: It sounds interesting, but pointless for me because I watch so little TV.  I do not even have a TV. :)08:59
tank-manbut I also heard its pretty fast and no download limits09:01
tank-mancause they don't monitor the tv stuff09:01
tank-manor cant09:01
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brolin_empeytank-man: That does not matter to me either because my current ADSL is already fast enough.  I have never exceeded my monthly bandwidth limits with Telus ADSL because I do not download much and upload even less.09:04
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arachnistbandwidth limits? what's that?09:07
arachnist;)09:07
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luke-jrbrolin_empey: then why not just use dialup? ;)09:13
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brolin_empeyluke-jr: Because I am not /that/ much of a masochist.  I tried using dial-up on vacation last summer:  it was so slow it was almost useless.09:15
luke-jrbrolin_empey: most transfer limits I have seen are less than dialup09:16
emjameh, you kids. try 2400bps dialup. muahahaha09:16
luke-jrtherefore, preferring them over dialup just implies impatience09:16
emja:)09:16
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brolin_empeyemja: I am only 23, but I actually used an external 2400 bps dial-up modem to call the VPL (Vancouver Public Library)'s catalog before dial-up access to the catalog was finally discontinued in 2001.09:20
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D-IivilGood morning everyone.10:10
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tekojomorning D-Iivil!10:14
frals_morning o/10:14
Myrttimeh10:14
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D-IivilDoes anyone know if it's possible to create a shorcut on the desktop which would launch shell script ran with root priveledges?10:25
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D-IivilI have a very simple shell script that changes my theme's color scheme, but it needs root priviledges to copy files under /usr/share/themes. It works nice if you have rootsh installed and first type sudo gainroot and then run the script. Or is there another easy way to do such file actions (I'm not eager to learn new code language if not absolutely necessary...).10:28
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tank-mani thikn you can do it with something called setuid10:30
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rmrfchikI wonder, why people use 2g/3g switcher applet? Why to switch off 3G anyway?10:31
MiXu-2G gives you more use time10:31
MiXu-a lot more10:31
rmrfchikahh.. ok10:32
rmrfchikthis is new for me ;)10:32
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D-Iivilrmrfchik: and for example my summer house is located in the border area of 2G/3G and phone constantly jumps between those two (3G really does not work) so it's handy to force the phone to 2G.10:33
D-Iiviltank-man:  thanks, but googling setuid won't give any reasonable results :-/ can you point me closer what should I be looking for?10:34
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hrw[A10:36
hrwmorning10:36
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mikki-kunmorning as well *yawns*10:38
tank-manD-Iivil, this link looks informative http://www.evolt.org/article/UNIX_File_Permissions_and_Setuid_Part_2/18/263/index.html10:39
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tank-manin short, try this command "chmod u+s script.sh"10:40
tank-manas root10:40
tank-manand make the owner of the script, root10:40
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D-Iiviltank-man: noup.. still gives permission denied error when the script tries to copy stuff inside /usr/share/themes -folder10:42
tank-manis root the owner of the script?10:43
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D-Iiviltank-man: aah.. missed that line. Is this correct syntax: chown root yourscript.sh10:44
D-IivilNo go, still permission denied error.10:45
tank-manyou have to be root user to do that chmod10:45
tank-mani mean chown10:45
D-Iiviltank-man: yeah, I did sudo gainroot myself before using chown10:46
tank-mandid it work?10:46
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D-IivilNoup.10:47
D-IivilPermission denied for running cp -command in the script.10:47
mikki-kuntank-man: what does the "s" stand for in the chmod command?10:47
tank-mani think sticky bit10:48
D-IivilHere's the script: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=731695&postcount=1410:49
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tank-manheres a link i found with what you want http://www.tuxation.com/setuid-on-shell-scripts.html10:49
mikki-kunhm, i've never encountered +s tbh10:50
kejenhow does maemo do dns lookups? Just realized my resolv.conf is 127.0.0110:50
kejen127.0.0.1 i mean10:50
kejenwas playing with openvpn, and wonder if it got overwritten10:51
dazokejen: I believe it's dnsmasq which does all resolving10:52
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dazoI'm using openvpn with a down-root plug-in to update the resolver10:53
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dazogah10:54
kejenits weird, with openvpn I couldnt resolve anything. Until I added some dns resolvers to resolve.conf10:54
kejenand also, when using the plugin vs calling it with openvpn --config (config), the routes are completely different10:55
mikki-kunkejen: could be that openvpn needs a working resolv.conf...10:55
dazofrom my config: 'up /etc/openvpn/maemo-update-resolvconf'10:55
dazo(not sure where that script derives from, though)10:55
mikki-kuni've seen a bunch of oddities on the n900 linuxside tbh...10:56
D-Iiviltank-man: I think running "setuid" is somehow prevented in Maemo. I did exactly as the tutorial told me to do, but still no permission to run those commands :-/10:56
dazoand then ... 'plugin /opt/openvpn/lib/openvpn/openvpn-down-root.so "script_type=down /etc/openvpn/maemo-update-resolvconf"'10:56
kejeni see that text file in the /etc/openvpn folder10:56
tank-manD-Iivil, yea, near the bottom of the page, it says if it doesnt work, the linux distro has it disabled (probably in the kernel)10:56
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kejenoh well, i just stick 4.2.2.2, and 4.2.2.1, and 8.8.8.8 in resolv.conf, those will always work10:57
D-IivilSo then option b) how difficult would be to write that script in Python for example? And would that provide the solution? I want to make shortcut on application launcher so that user can run that setup anytime he wants without hassling with xterm.10:57
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tank-manD-Iivil, another way is configuring sudo and prepending all the 'root' commands in the script with sudo11:01
D-Iiviltank-man: sounds like stuff I don't want to do on other users device.11:01
tank-mani see11:02
D-IivilHeh, I already installed QT SDK but I don't have a slighest glue on how to write such simple application that shows a dialog and then copies one folder to another location based on users choise :-D11:05
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mikki-kunhm, the qt sdk needs to be run in VM-ware, right?11:07
D-Iivilmikki-kun: runs fine on windows machine.11:08
mikki-kunD-Iivil: you just downloaded it and "executed" it?11:08
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D-Iivilmikki-kun: yep. Downloaded, excecuted the installer and then fired up the SDK. Seems to be working fine.11:09
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mikki-kunhm... at some point i need to finally start coding >.< let's see what i'll do first then... maybe some "hello worlds" ^^11:10
D-IivilBut don't know if that's overkill.. All I want to do is include that small "setup wizard" with my theme that makes possible for user only install one package from repos and he gets to choose which color scheme he want's to use.11:10
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D-IivilDon't really know if it's possible to include the setup wizard written in QT with theme package :-/11:11
mikki-kunmaybe include it as a stand-alone packet11:11
tristani swear im seeing processes ive closed in ps x11:12
tristanand duplicates of almost everything11:12
tristanam i missing some fundamental fact here.11:12
mikki-kunwhich proccesses are those? and did you use "kill -9 $PID"?11:12
D-Iivilmikki-kun: Then user would have to download two packages. I'm aiming to reduce the amount of packages I upload to repos since it seems to bother some people.11:12
mikki-kunD-Iivil: hm, maybe just then give access to the theme-chooser app and host your themes on another server then11:13
tristanlike, browser for instance.11:13
tristanill ssh in and grab the ps x output, one moment.11:13
mikki-kunthat would be a simple solution11:13
tristanim saying, i close the browser11:13
tristanyet i see two browser pids.11:13
D-IivilRight now it's working just fine; user installs one theme with application manager and then during the installation he chooses which color scheme to use and he can also change that later by running the shell script from terminal.11:13
mikki-kuntristan: running here as well, i assume the browser has also some other function as the explorer.exe in windows...11:14
mikki-kunkinda dislike this behaviour...11:14
mikki-kunhm, so you want "major themes" which include all the color-codes... that's a cool idea from you :)11:14
mikki-kuntristan: i have browser running twice and browserd running trice...11:15
tristanhmm.11:16
mikki-kuni am currently restarting my n900 to check out if it loads it during start as well11:16
D-Iivilmikki-kun: exactly! Black Plastic is now first that has that function (available @ extras-devel). Just want to make it easy to run the setup script again without re-installing the whole theme package or hassle inside terminal.11:16
mikki-kunhm, another cool thing would be to let the user choose then custom colors as well ^^11:17
D-Iivilmikki-kun: well.. it's not just setting color code in .css -file, different theme variations includes a bunch of graphics also (buttons etc).11:18
mikki-kuni can't kinda figure out myself how to make a theme by myself >.< i mean, throwing tools and apps at the user is nice, but without documentation it's a lil uncool11:18
mikki-kuni know... surely there is a way into changing those colors as well ;)11:18
D-Iivilmikki-kun: there are some good tutorials that will guide you through creating a Maemo 5 themes.11:19
D-Iivillike this: http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE/Theme_building11:19
tristaneh i had to cycle, my wifi was broken11:19
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mikki-kuntristan: i have running browserd -d only after a reboot11:19
tristanill output the ps x results sometime when i see it next, maybe its just browser having lots of roles.11:19
tristanim basically trying to work out why my battery is self destructing.11:19
mikki-kunD-Iivil: thanks for that link11:20
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mikki-kuntristan: display can kill it, as well as maybe some apps11:21
mikki-kuneither due to bad coding or heavy usage of a certain device like the GPS-module11:22
D-Iivilmikki-kun: basically you just edit one single png -file that is the theme template. And then backgrounds etc. and finally pack it all up in .deb inside scratchbox or then use extras autobuilder.11:22
tristanwell,11:22
tristani screenshooted my battery meter11:22
tristanits when i turn on 3g and my mobile internet11:22
tristanit can pillage 25% of the battery in half an hour11:22
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mikki-kuntristan: 3g is from what i read and heard the one killing your bat the fastest...11:22
tristanthats a bummer.11:23
tristanim new to this mobile internet stuff:p i cant use my data plan without 3g being on can i.11:23
mikki-kunD-Iivil: i have downloaded the "themecreator" from maemo but i kinda didn't get which buttons goes where and how and what and when... i was able to edit it though, but it kinda was difficult tbh...11:24
D-Iivilmikki-kun: what's that? Never heard about it, the themecreator I mean.11:24
* pahartik just downloaded "d-theme-futureal", "d-theme-simple-blue" and "istyle-light" for trying next time reboot is required11:24
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mikki-kunahhh, thememaker1.2.911:24
D-Iivilmikki-kun: okay, well it's exactly the same template that is being used with that method I posted.11:25
mikki-kunuhm... damn ^^ then it seems i gotta figure out in where which button or colorsnipper goes...11:25
D-Iivilmikki-kun: you just need to play around with it and see what button is used and where. And ofcrouse I can tell you if you want to ask.11:25
mikki-kunthanks for that offer :)11:27
mikki-kuni will look into it when i really can't figure out where what goes ^^11:27
D-IivilAllthough I'm not online @ irc too often, but I guess if you post any of your questions to this thread they will be answered quick: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4418711:28
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mikki-kuni'll bookmark it :)11:30
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mikki-kunand thanks for your tutorial with the loading indicators :)11:30
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mikki-kunhopefully my theme will look the way i want it to be ^^11:34
D-Iivilmikki-kun: my tutorial? Never wrote a single tutorial in my life :-D11:34
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mikki-kunnot... ohhh, my mind really is playing tricks on me again...11:35
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mikki-kunuah... normal nokia theme looks just wrong >.<11:35
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mikki-kunD-Iivil: can you tell me where the lower right "box" goes on the n900 which is in backgrounds-template.png?11:39
D-Iivilmikki-kun: and if you have scratchbox running, you can download sources of my themes just to see what the template -file looks like.11:39
D-Iivilhold on, I'll check11:39
D-Iivilumm.. background-template.png under what directory?11:39
mikki-kunlooks like something in portrait mode, rather than landscape11:39
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mikki-kuni am still using thememaker1.2.9 for making the theme...11:40
D-Iivilaah.. I don't have that installed atm.11:40
D-IivilSo have no idea about that.11:40
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mikki-kunhm, let's see where i can find a source of madde11:42
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D-Iivilmikki-kun: seems like MADDE is now bundled with Nokia QT SDK: http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE11:47
mikki-kunjup, i am loading the nokia qt sdk as well11:48
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mikki-kuni just hope it sourcecode for my gentoo11:49
mikki-kuni hate precompiled bins... it's as if somebody would have prechewed your burger ^^11:49
D-Iivilmikki-kun: and you also need to set up a Maemo SDK as well if you want to build theme debs locally. It's a bit of work but makes testing themes easier. In that way the thememaker is easier path to go.11:50
D-IivilI just never got thememaker working on my machine so then I went down with the other way.11:50
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mikki-kunit seems, but testing the theme on the n900 will be a lil cumbersome after time i think...11:51
mikki-kuni know from my background that i did like 10 different versions...11:52
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mikki-kundamn, the qt sdk takes another 1.5 hours :(11:54
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nas_is there any way to have something like dial plan on n900 ? for example when I call a number starts from 8 then use SIP account , when I call a number start with 2 use GSM  and so on ?11:56
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mikki-kunnas_: haven't heard of that...12:01
nas_couldn't find anything on google too ..12:01
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gseverhello12:29
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D-Iivilhello12:34
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Pontus^In about 35 min I will go and get my new N900 *woho*12:35
gsevercrowdy here :)12:35
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Pontus^sure that12:35
gseverare there any wifi only users of N900 ?12:36
MohammadAG51hey D-Iivil12:36
gseverwithout a GSM operator12:36
D-IivilHey MohammadAG51!12:36
toggles_wgsever: I was for about 4 months12:36
gseverok here is my situation12:36
gseverthe places I live there is almost always some wifi coverage12:36
gseverin school being the best :D12:36
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gseverand I am not considering of getting a sim card, neither for voice plan nor for data plan only12:37
D-IivilMohammadAG51: thanks for your help with the script :) I'm still strugling on how to run the script from shortcut with root priviledges though :-/12:37
D-Iivil(I want to make the script easily accessible when ever user wants to)12:37
gseverthis is for the US. and I am thinking of continuening my communication via wifi networks, logged in IM services12:37
MohammadAG51D-Iivil, a desktop file?12:38
toggles_wgsever: n900 worked great for this for me, n900 + google voice + gizmo5 (diamondcard.us or some other voip), no need for a sim12:38
gseverand looking for options to make cheap outgoing and incoming calls12:38
D-IivilMohammadAG51: yes12:38
gsevertoggles_w, yeh I get a google voice as well although not used or set it up yet :D12:38
toggles_wgserver: in usa google voice + gizmo5 or some other voip provider12:38
gseveris gizmo5 free?12:39
toggles_wi have used gizmo and diamondcard.us, both work12:39
D-IivilMohammadAG51: since most users don't want to go in xterm and first sudogainroot themselves and then run the script.12:39
MohammadAG51D-Iivil, add an entry to /etc/sudoers.d/, update-sudoers, then use sudo12:39
toggles_wgizmo is free, owned by google now12:39
toggles_wsorry, not free, but pennies a minute12:39
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gsevertoggles_w, no new signups on gizmo512:39
D-IivilMohammadAG51: but that sounds like stuff I don't want to do on users devices? Or can that be automated during package installation procedure?12:39
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D-IivilAnd I think it's a security breach also :-/12:40
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MohammadAG51D-Iivil, a lot of apps use it, and it's done in the postinst script12:40
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D-IivilMohammadAG51: really?12:40
MohammadAG51it's only for your script, can't see it as a security breach :)12:40
toggles_wgsever: well you need a voip provider that will supply a us telephone # like diamondcard.us then you forward gvoice to that number12:41
MohammadAG51user ALL = NOPASSWD: /sbin/fm-boost12:41
D-IivilMohammadAG51: aaaah, okay! Then it sounds cool!12:41
MohammadAG51example from fm-boost12:41
D-IivilWill download source of fm-boost and see what happens there :)12:41
D-IivilMohammadAG51: Thanks for the tip!12:41
MohammadAG51D-Iivil, just cd into /etc/sudoers.d and check the files there, it's just c&p tbh :P12:41
MohammadAG51D-Iivil, np :)12:41
gsevertoggles_w, hmm that could we be a skype number as well eh?12:41
toggles_wprobably if the skype can be dialed from a regular phone12:42
D-IivilMohammadAG51: so should I place my script under /sbin?12:42
D-IivilMohammadAG51: now it's places under /user/home12:42
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D-Iivilplaced12:43
gsevertoggles_w, it says yes for that http://www.skype.com/intl/en/features/12:43
MohammadAG51D-Iivil, doesn't matter :)12:44
D-IivilMohammadAG51: so I just edit the .sudoers -file to be like this: user ALL = NOPASSWD: /home/user/myscript.sh ?12:45
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MohammadAG51yes, make a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ (/etc/sudoers.d/themesselector.sudoers for example) and add user ALL = NOPASSWD: /home/user/myscript.sh to it12:46
gsevertoggles_w, skype says €4,99/month not about 6.2 $ to make outgoing calls12:46
D-IivilMohammadAG51: Will try it! Thanks (again). Took you only two minutes to get me through issue I've been trying to google since last night :D12:47
MohammadAG51D-Iivil, you're welcome :)12:47
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D-IivilIt's really painfull to try to learn something new when you don't even know what to google for. I had never used Unix OS before I bought N900 :-P12:48
gsevertoggles_w, for incoming calls it costs 60$ per year, 5$ per month, so in total it makes about 11$ per month :D12:48
gseverD-Iivil, just setup a linux box, virtual or real12:49
gseverand start digging :D12:49
D-Iivilgsever: well that's what I've done :) Installed Ubuntu on VMWare, then installed Maemo SDK and so on.12:49
Pupnik71good!12:50
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gseversame here, too :) I also use Fedora 1212:50
Pupnik71what 2 do12:51
gsevertoggles_w, how much your setup costs?12:52
gsevertoggles_w, is it monthly payment or pay as you use type of deal?12:52
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mirfwow12:56
mirfI just found the jebba debian repo12:57
mirfthat is insane12:57
Pupnik71hey mirf :)12:58
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mirfhah hi Pupnik71 :D12:59
mirfI've got my n900 now12:59
Pupnik71I havent used that12:59
Pupnik71Nice.. Happy so far?12:59
mirfyeah man pretty much13:00
mirfI've not hacked it too much yet13:00
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Pupnik71may you have a fun time exploring the possiblities13:02
mirfyeah13:02
mirfbeen thinking abuot installing debian to sd card13:02
mirffor dual booting into somethign les phone centric13:03
Pupnik71mhm13:03
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mirfit would be very interesting to get a nice light install with realtime enabled on the kernel and puredata13:05
jpetoday little disappointedin n900, no rSAP support....13:05
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mirfaccelerometer/proximity sensor algorithmic music13:07
mirfhead in the clouds type ideas :P13:08
MohammadAG51grrr, rar is a non-free package built for i386 and x64 only...13:08
mirfthere should be a unrarfree as well I'd have though MohammadAG5113:08
MohammadAG51mirf, that's for unraring, not raring13:09
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MohammadAG51guess i'll have to take it out of xarchiver's options13:09
D-IivilMohammadAG51: I'm facing a problem here while trying to install the .deb i just built.13:09
D-IivilMohammadAG51: /scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/etc/sudoers': Operation not permitted13:09
MohammadAG51hmm?13:10
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D-IivilI downloaded the source code of fm-boost and copy&pasted the sudoers -stuff from there and I think that error comes when postinst is trying to run command "update-sudoers"13:10
MohammadAG51fakeroot update-sudoers13:10
D-IivilScratchbox issue?13:10
MohammadAGI suppose13:11
D-IivilOkay. Will test it out. I suppose fakeroot wont be needed with actual device?13:11
MohammadAGnope13:11
MohammadAGumm13:11
MohammadAG.deb file?13:11
MohammadAGuse fakeroot dpkg -i to install it13:11
D-IivilAaa, ok, will do that :)13:11
mirfoh yeah , I should read :P13:11
toggles_wgsever: paid by the minute as used, gizmo is 1c/min in us, I think diamondcard is to, and i was paying about 2c to australia13:11
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D-IivilMohammadAG: it's working! Thanks again :)13:13
MohammadAG:D13:13
D-IivilYeah, now I can run the script as normal user and it works :)13:14
D-IivilNow I just need to google how to create a .desktop -file to launch the script but that should be trivial :)13:14
mirfyeah Pupnik71 this deb repo is all of etch compiled for n900... it kinda scares me lol13:14
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MohammadAGD-Iivil, whenever I make .desktop files I just cat a file in /usr/share/applications/hildon/ and change the respective fields :)13:15
D-IivilMohammadAG: I will take a look at fm-boost's .desktop -file ;)13:15
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MohammadAGD-Iivil, the X-Osso-Service field is based on files in /usr/share/dbus-1/services/, do check those out too :)13:16
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ruskiehttp://www.tokyoflash.com/en/watches/kisai/escape-c/design/ <-- so want this13:25
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gsevertoggles_w, is that diamondcard thing provide both incoming and outgoing calls?13:26
corecodewhat's that new stupid idea that the phone completely resets the time when switching the sim card?13:26
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toggles_wgsever: yes, it's just a voip provider that will provide a pstn number if you want13:28
D-Iivilcorecode: I've wondered the same thing myself...13:28
gseverI might try diamond when I land in the US in a couple weeks13:28
gseveroh joy of using N900 :D13:28
MohammadAGcorecode, it only resets the time zone :)13:30
toggles_wit's works very very well as a wifi voip device13:30
alteregoMohammadAG: vote for my new version :)13:30
alteregoAnd by vote I mean test :P13:31
MohammadAGalterego, when perl-modules gets in -testing you do the same, TEST IT!13:31
alteregoMohammadAG: of course :)13:32
corecodeMohammadAG: no, i started at jan 1 200913:32
corecodetwice13:32
MohammadAGweird, mine never does that. Could be a hw problem?13:32
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proyconMy brand new Nokia N900 suddenly doesn't make any sound anymore... I can't play any audio,  neither system files nor MP3, but only telephone calls seem to work... CPU load is constantly fairly high, with pulseaudio taking a sizeable portion13:33
MohammadAGand I changed my SIM last week13:33
MohammadAG~flashing13:33
infobotflashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware13:33
MohammadAGproycon, follow that ^ and flash your device13:33
proyconDoes the nokia n900 have two seperate speakers?13:33
proyconhmm13:33
MohammadAGif it's new, it should be the easiest 'fix'13:34
alteregoproycon: three actually, maybe four.13:34
MohammadAGif the problem is in software13:34
MohammadAGmost probably three13:34
proyconI'm not entirely sure yet if it's the software or the hardware speakers which are broken13:34
MohammadAGyou did try the calls with the speaker on right?13:34
alteregoTurning the volume up? :)13:35
proyconI tried calls with speaker on too yeah13:35
proyconthat worked13:35
proyconand turning volume up had no effect13:35
proycon(it did start muted though)13:35
proyconalsamixer shows only 'master'13:35
proycon(not sure how much it is supposed to show)13:35
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proycondmesg says this: http://pastebin.com/8X5wGZqy    is that all it's supposed to say regarding to sound?13:38
MohammadAGproycon, if the speakers worked in a call it's a software problem13:38
MohammadAGreflash13:38
proyconyeah, if that's the only solution I'll try that13:38
proyconbut I can't stand not knowing what caused this and fixing it13:39
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MohammadAGproycon, heh, I guess you're not a newbie to linux :p13:40
proyconno, indeed13:40
proycononly to the n90013:41
MohammadAGflashing is the easiest solution, I doubt it's the only one13:41
gsevertoggle_ws, with diamondcard option I need to setup a SIP account to receive calls13:41
proyconI'm wondering if flashing will affect my warranty?13:42
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proyconcause I could just return to the shop and say "it's broken", bought it two days ago13:42
pupnik< proycon> Does the nokia n900 have two seperate speakers?13:43
pupnik>_<13:43
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alteregofucking hay fever ..13:46
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Myrttialterego: prescription medication ♥13:52
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alteregoNo, I don't even get hay fever, thi syear is the second time in my life :/13:53
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alteregoI think my body is slightly weekened as I'm fighting off a systemic infection with antibiotics at the moment.13:54
MyrttiI got my first hayfever at the adult age of 25, and have had it since13:56
lcukalterego, find 2 of the biggest pills you can find, insert one in each nostril.  hayfever will go! (get well soon btw)13:56
Myrttithis year I've had so bad symptomps I've got prescription and drugs for antihistamine pills, cortisone nasal spray, eye drops and even an asthma inhaler in case I get really bad13:57
alteregoHah, nice one. Myrtti maybe you're right, I'm twenty seven so that may have put me in a similar position :)13:57
alteregoMy symptoms hay fever related are just itchy leaky eyes and the occasional sneezing fit.13:58
Myrttisounds about right.13:58
Myrttimy personal best is 12 sneezes13:58
alteregoIt only really bothers me when I get up in the morning and have to carefully rinse all the dry and not so dry gunk from my eyes :(13:58
alteregoSweet, I've got a friend who's always suffered and he's at wits end this year, just seems to be getting worse and worse for him :(13:59
MyrttiI wouldn't mind the sneezing, if my back weren't shot as well13:59
alteregoHarsh,14:00
alteregoI should just stop smoking, I'm sure most of this is down to that killing my immune system :)14:00
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alteregoAnyway, if you want to make me feel better, tes and vote for my package :) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/media-im-status-updater/0.4/14:05
alteregoemotional black mail ftw14:05
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MohammadAGalterego, is a tmo thread a valid bugtracker?14:18
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jacekowskiMohammadAG: yes14:23
jacekowskiMohammadAG: read the friendly guidelines14:23
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proyconWhere are my contacts stored on the n900 phone?14:27
jacekowskion the emmc14:27
proyconbackup tool doesn't seem to work, so I want to copy them manually14:27
jacekowskihave you tried google?14:27
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corecodeso far i had problems charging my n900 on usb ports14:28
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proycon/home/user ?14:28
corecodeit always says "not charging"14:28
jacekowskicorecode: windows14:28
corecodeis there a way to force a lower current charge?14:28
corecodejacekowski: linux and windows14:28
jacekowskicorecode: if it has no drivers it will not send more than 100mA14:28
corecodewell, 100mA is better than nothing14:28
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jacekowskinot really14:29
jacekowski100mA is nothing14:29
jacekowskiso you just said14:29
jacekowskiwell, nothing is better than nothing14:29
BCMMi've had problems with windows xp, and with my front USB14:29
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corecodei ran my battery flat because neither my dell laptop nor the other lenovo laptop could charge it14:30
BCMM(which is a USB card reader + USB port thing connected to a motherboard header)14:30
corecodei don't mind if it takes 10h to charge14:30
BCMMfrankly, i was expecting the port to just be directly connected to half of the header, but no luck14:30
corecodeas long as it charges a little bit14:30
jacekowskicorecode: at 100mA it would charge in only infinite hours14:30
ShadowJKif the host computer says NO then N900 obeys :/14:31
lcukcorecode, when you do get started, going into offline mode and turning screen off gives best charging performance (for obvious reasons)14:31
jacekowskicorecode: it's barely charging from 500mA14:31
lcukjacekowski, where in the spec does it say 100ma specifically?14:31
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jacekowskilcuk: that's minimum required from usb port regardless of anything14:31
lcukthats OTG spec limit isnt it?14:31
jacekowskino14:31
corecodelcuk: it doesn't charge at all14:31
lcuk:( core14:32
corecode"Not charging"14:32
jacekowskilcuk: it's delivering 100mA for device startup and that sort of things14:32
corecodeit says14:32
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corecodewhich current does it charge with on the charger?14:32
corecode1000mA?14:32
ShadowJK120014:33
corecodewow14:33
corecodewell, still 100mA better than nothing14:33
ShadowJKWell, the charger can provide 1200, but bme usually only takes 1000 of it14:33
lcukjacekowski, but where does it say that - you have info and mentioning drivers - the amount of power is not the same as having drivers available?  i am quite certain i have charged from device without drivers (windows sat there saying "cannot find driver" but yet device is charging14:33
jacekowskilcuk: i think it depends on version14:34
lcukversion of what?14:34
jacekowskilcuk: xp seems to require drivers to provide more than that 100mA14:34
ShadowJKI heard that if you have ever installed ovi suite or pc suite, or the usb networking drivers on a windows machine, it'll refuse to provide power14:34
lcukthis was xp14:34
jacekowskiShadowJK: that might be the thing14:35
ShadowJKBut then again, who'd insane and crazy enough to install such crap? :)14:35
hajuhm.. okay this has been annoying me for some weeks now. So:14:35
hajIs there a way to disable application manager automatically checking for updates once a day? since I use apt-get upgrade anyway once in a while it's getting a bit annoying to see the yellow icon14:36
D-IivilHooray, finally it's working :) The theme color scheme selector bundled with theme!14:36
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pcfehaj: yes, there is a gconf key whose name I forget. check the maemo wiki, IIRC the key is in there.14:37
hajpcfe: thanks.. :)14:38
jacekowskihaj: i just ignore it14:39
hajpcfe: think I'll just change it to a week..14:39
hajjacekowski: so do I.. but it's still annoying.. :)14:39
vldcnsthttp://www.perpetualkid.com/productimages/lg2/STND-1833-2.jpg low-tech stand for low-tech phone14:40
vldcnst^^14:40
hajjacekowski: http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo14:41
hajjacekowski: almost at the bottom of the page..14:41
hajreally easy to change14:41
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corecodeanybody on the "charge with 100mA"?14:57
corecodeis there a way to force it?14:57
corecodei mean, just in case14:57
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Gadgetoid_mbpDun dun... dun!15:01
timeless_mbpcorecode: eh, what are you trying to do, and why?15:02
ShadowJKhis PCs refuse to supply power to N90015:03
alteregoIs it a Mac? I hear Mac's hate the N900! :P15:03
timeless_mbpany, or sufficient?15:03
timeless_mbpalterego: my mac gets along nicely w/ my n900s15:03
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alterego:)15:03
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ShadowJKtimeless, "Not Charging"15:04
alteregocorecode: does the OS recognise the device? Is it just charging that doesn't work and what kind of machine is this and what OS are you using?15:04
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corecodeyes15:07
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corecodeit seems the cable i'm using is the problem15:07
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corecodeit is totally beyond me how that would happen tho15:07
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alteregocorecode: how old is the cable? :)15:08
corecodeor at least not reliably15:08
corecodealterego: new, just $random usb cable15:08
MiXu-I've seen some weird shit with faulty usb cables as well15:09
corecodewell, usb works15:09
corecodejust charging doesn't15:09
Appiahn900 wont charge with any cable15:09
Appiahthe cable thats provided is not standard15:09
alteregoWeird,15:09
corecodeAppiah: weh?15:09
ShadowJKAppiah, wtf?15:09
vldcnstAppiah: wrong.15:09
alteregoAll my Nokia cables work15:09
ShadowJKAppiah, you're making this up or have misunderstood things.15:09
MiXu-Once had a printer that could be detected fine and everything was cool until you tried to print. Nothing would happen.15:09
Appiahumm15:09
Appiahthats what I read on maemo talk15:10
MiXu-Changed usb cable -> everything worked again15:10
ShadowJKAppiah, well it's wrong15:10
corecodeShadowJK: any idea why one cable would work and the other wouldn't?15:10
Appiahpeople having problems with charing + transfering15:10
ShadowJKHowever, when connecting to non-standard chargers, a non-standard cable can convince N900 to charge, whereas a standard cable would not charge15:10
corecodeShadowJK: this is on a powered usb hub (monitor)15:11
alteregoSomeone test and vote for my app please :)15:11
alteregoOn 4/10 at the mo15:11
vldcnstagain!/15:11
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D-IivilFuck! My micro-USB port just fell off :-(15:11
alteregoD-Iivil: :( oh no!15:11
AppiahD-Iivil: that happens quite often..15:12
ShapeshifterDoes someone know of a way of pre-caching maps for maep? As in making them available offline in large batches like a country or area.15:12
D-IivilYou guys were talking about chargning and I decided to put mine on charge also.15:12
ShadowJKBasically the device on the other end has to identify itself as a charger, or as a computer, and if it identifies as a computer, N900 will ask for power, and if the computer agrees, it will charge. If the computer rejects N900's request for power, N900 will not charge. If the device on the other end identifies itself as a charger, N900 will draw as much power as it can suck out of it.15:12
AppiahShapeshifter: think there are some cache apps for that15:12
D-IivilArgh. This means I need to dig up my 5800XM and charge the battery with it.15:12
alteregoShapeshifter: yeah, google it for series 60 and it works pretty muchthe same.15:12
D-IivilAny DIY fixes available yet?15:12
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timeless_mbpalterego: what app? and does it require an account outside of maemo.org?15:13
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ShadowJKD-Iivil, no when it breaks it's pretty much unrepairable15:13
fluxI wonder if that electricity conducting glue would be ideal for fixing that. or messing it beyong repair :)15:13
Appiahhttp://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=607824 here is one about the issue about some cables not charging15:13
Appiahor not doing datatransfers15:13
alteregoD-Iivil: not a fix, but you can usually charge the battery in other Nokias, like N810 E60 ...15:13
Shapeshifterfor series 60? maep and mapper and all those who share a cache are maemo specific aren't they?15:13
Appiahcant find the other ones..15:13
MiXu-You'll void your warranty if you mess with it yourself. So I wouldn't :)15:14
D-IivilShadowJK: well.. maybe it's time to bring the device to service anyways. I have those "white" spots on display, the covers are making funny noises when pressing the touchscreen etc.15:14
alteregoShapeshifter: oh, not Nokia maps?15:14
timeless_mbpShadowJK:  irreparable15:14
Shapeshifteralterego: no, maep15:14
alteregoShapeshifter: no idea then, maybe ask the author?15:14
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, thanks15:14
alteregoShapeshifter: or post to tmo and see if anyone else has.15:15
alteregoShapeshifter: but they're biitmaps, gonna take some storage for a significant area ..15:15
ShadowJKAppiah, so, um, two guys saying that the cable that came with their N900 works for both data transfer and charging?15:15
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AppiahShadowJK: huh?15:15
alteregoD-Iivil: do you have an N810 or other Nokia handset?15:15
ShadowJKand another saying a generic cheap cable from ebay works for both too15:15
Appiahsome do and some dont15:15
D-Iivilalterego: No, unfortunately I don't :(15:16
alteregoD-Iivil: :(15:16
D-IivilIt will be hard time to be apart from my N900 :-(15:16
ShadowJKAppiah, unless the cable is broken, it depends entirely on what you connect it to.15:16
alteregoD-Iivil: I'm not sure what I'd do, I'd have to claim insurance as I'd get the replacement same day for the sake of 60 quid ..15:16
ShadowJKThere are a a TON of non-standard chargers out there that wont work, though..15:16
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Shapeshifteralterego: yeah I know. Ideally it should be able to generate bitmaps on demand from a pre-downloaded map data file. You know you can download areas from open streetmaps. that would be ideal15:17
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alteregoD-Iivil: you can buy external chargers for our battery also btw.15:17
MiXu-A friend of mine bought a cheap ass 350mA charger. Lol.15:17
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MiXu-He'll run out of juice while talking even if it's charging.15:17
D-Iivilalterego: yeah, well.. in Nokia service center they also offer "fast repair" service. You pay like 30 euros and they will fix it asap.15:17
alteregoShapeshifter: submit a feature request :)15:17
fluxalterego, I think some of those posters mya have confused the effect of the charging source with the charging cable15:17
D-IivilOtherwice you need to wait 1-3 weeks to get the device repaired.15:17
asj_D-Iivil: a week wont' kill ya15:17
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fluxalterego, some devices may just not provide enough juice for n900 to charge (while it's on), regardless of the cable15:18
D-Iivilasj_: Yes it will! N900 has only internet connection I have @ home at the moment :D15:18
asj_D-Iivil: suckage15:18
alteregoD-Iivil: yeah, service centres are usually pretty good anyway, if you don't rely on delivery and just take it to them. I've usually only had to wait two days max before popping back in the shop and picking it up. Though N900 is some what commoditized hardware..15:18
ShadowJKflux, and some non-PC chargers don't identify themselves as chargers, so N900 ignores those..15:18
corecodeShadowJK: fair enough, but how can the cable influence this handshake with the computer?15:19
D-IivilAnd if I give up my phone for a week that means I actually have to talk and do something with my wife & kids instead of browsing talk.maemo.org :-O15:19
ShadowJKcorecode, if it's broken it's broken15:19
alteregoD-Iivil: same boat for me, my home connection is my N900's 3G :)15:19
asj_D-Iivil: pay the 30 euro15:19
corecodeShadowJK: it is good for usb talking15:19
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alteregoD-Iivil: luckily I've got a backup N96 and N95 8G15:19
ShadowJKAnd if the PC refuses the PC refuses..15:19
corecodeShadowJK: i.e. i can copy photos, mp3s15:19
corecodesame port, just different cable15:19
ShadowJKWell it'd still for for data if the power lines were damaged15:20
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corecodeyea15:20
corecodebut both cables?15:20
corecodei need to measure it15:20
corecodemassively annoying15:21
ShadowJKI thought you had one working and one broken15:21
corecodei have two broken and one (nokia) working15:21
ShadowJKah15:21
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corecodedidn't think that they could screw up just simple cables15:21
asj_corecode: and you've tried without the powered hub?15:22
fluxput 5V/1A through the cables and check the resulting voltage :)15:22
asj_500ma15:22
corecodeasj_: i tried various usb ports15:23
corecodedifferent machines15:23
fluxcorecode, have you charged other devices with the cables?15:23
fluxor run them usb-bus-powered?15:23
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D-IivilOkay, called the chief at the Nokia service (had to spoke him one time earlier with N97 which was a REAL pain in the ass) and he said they could fix my N900 within one working day. Maybe I can live with it :)15:25
corecodeno, i don't have other micro-usb devices15:25
mirfwow http://kibergus.su/en/node/3915:26
asj_corecode: just use the working cable, there's a ton of reasons it could be giving you grief.  The computer might be selecting the 500ma config, the power at the device could be falling under 4.5v, who knows.15:26
corecodewell, i bought these cables for a reason15:27
corecodeso that i don't have to carry around ONE cable15:27
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asj_corecode: return em, as much as it pains me to say it, get a nokia cable15:28
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corecodefor $30?15:29
corecodefor a cable?15:30
fluxcorecode, because voltage drop as a function of resistance and current, it can just be that the cables aren't high-quality enough to transmit that much current without a significant voltage drop15:30
flux(as a -> is a)15:30
fluxI mean, AFAIK there is no secret logic in nokia cables. they are just cables.15:30
fluxand they are connected the same as everything else and work as regular usb cables.15:31
corecode1 ohm eh15:31
corecode0.5V/0.5A15:31
corecodethat's quite a lot for a 50cm cable15:31
fluxit is indeed a lot15:31
ShadowJKDoes your nokia measure differently?15:31
ShadowJKnokia cable*15:32
corecodedon't have my equip here15:32
corecodeneed to measure at home15:32
ShadowJKWhere did you get 1ohm from? :)15:32
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fluxmeh, it's difficult to get a probe connected to those connectors15:34
ShadowJKya15:35
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corecodeShadowJK: 0.5V drop at 0.5A15:35
corecodeShadowJK: is 1Ohm15:35
fluxon another 50cm usb cable the ground plave gave me 0.4-0.5 ohm15:35
fluxgrounding that is15:36
corecodewow15:36
fluxdifficult to say what the resistance would be on the actual signal connectors, though15:36
flux(this is not the nokia cable)15:36
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fluxadding usb-connectors to the to-buy-list :)15:37
ShadowJKcorecode, are you comfortable with commandline?15:38
corecodeShadowJK: always15:38
corecodemore than gui15:38
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Jaffare15:39
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alteregoAhloha15:40
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marmoute:-)15:40
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crashanddieyo Jaffa, howzit?15:41
ShadowJKcorecode, cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mA15:41
corecode815:43
corecodeweh?15:43
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corecodejumps between 100 and 815:44
ShadowJKlol15:44
ShadowJKwith non-nokia cable?15:44
corecodeyes15:44
corecodenokia cable is 50015:44
ShadowJKThat's pretty weird :)15:45
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AppiahO_o15:46
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SpeedEvil8 is one of the OTG states isn't it?15:46
ShadowJKnfi15:47
crashanddiedamn, why is there never a troll around whilst I'm bored15:52
vldcnstyou can slap me.15:52
alteregoHeh15:52
* crashanddie gives an unconvinced slap to vldcnst 15:53
vldcnstmore!15:53
vldcnstX-Fade: here?15:53
* crashanddie goes in a corner and sings Operator Blues15:53
crashanddie'later15:53
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timeless_mbpcorecode: 100 is basically unprovisioned usb device15:58
timeless_mbp500 is "usb device offered a service to the host"15:59
corecodeand 8?15:59
timeless_mbpif the cable somehow prevents the host from seeing the offer, then getting 100 makes some sense15:59
timeless_mbpdunno15:59
corecodemy point15:59
corecodehow is the offer communicated?15:59
Guest91128err15:59
* timeless_mbp shrugs15:59
corecodepower pins or data pins?15:59
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timeless_mbpsurely the usb spec would explain?15:59
timeless_mbpi'd assume data15:59
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timeless_mbphttp://www.google.com/search?q=8ma%20usb%20otg&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-816:00
timeless_mbpindicates that 8mA is definitely a magic number16:00
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alteregovote for my app, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/media-im-status-updater/0.4/16:05
alteregodo it and win 0!16:06
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alteregoYou need it because you're weak!16:06
MohammadAGalterego, you do realize there's a 10 day quarantine right?16:06
tybolltes16:06
alteregoThat and, I'm not going to write my next app until this is through.16:07
tybolltwe don't want random people bringing rabies into our repo's16:07
alteregoMohammadAG: and.... :)16:07
MohammadAGalterego, I'll vote on the 9th day16:07
MohammadAGprolly 9.9th16:07
tybolltby then god has created the world since long mohammad16:07
alteregodamn you, I'm not even sure when that is.16:07
MohammadAG2010-06-25 10:35 UTC16:08
alteregoThat is probably a week wednesday, lame ...16:08
MohammadAGadd 9 days, and 0.9 x 2416:08
timeless_mbpalterego: hrm16:08
timeless_mbpdidn't i vote for that?16:08
MohammadAGhe updated it16:08
alteregotimeless_mbp: probably the first version yeah.16:08
timeless_mbpi seem to recall poking it last week16:09
alteregoMohammadAG: you lie, you just voted :P16:09
timeless_mbpi voted for 0.216:09
alteregotimeless_mbp: yes, I develop quickly :)16:09
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alteregoThis is the last release for a while, I'll be pushing 1.0 with the ui ported to Qt/C++ as Python/Pyside is annoyingly slow ..16:10
MohammadAGrelease early, release often, release more bugs16:10
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alteregoBut I just want to get this dolne and dusted so I can safely move onto my next project without worrying about this one :)16:10
timeless_mbpyour package requires >5mb!16:10
MohammadAGPySide does16:10
alteregotimeless_mbp: PySide ...16:10
MohammadAGalterego, see? you force users to install pyside yet you refuse to install perl16:11
MohammadAG:P16:11
alteregoAgain, that will not be a problem in 1.0 as the deps for the config ui are already on device.16:11
alteregoHeh16:11
MohammadAGoh it's a monday, I'll say it again then, X-Fade ping? :)16:11
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X-Fadeignoring .... ;)16:12
alteregohahah16:12
MohammadAGyay :D16:12
X-Fadewazzup?16:13
Ikarusthe weather is just meh awful16:13
MohammadAGX-Fade, http://maemo.org/packages/view/perl-modules/, no maintainers, and apparently it wasn't pulled into -testing when I promoted frozen-bubble16:13
alteregoProbably a devel package for SDK16:13
X-FadeMohammadAG: Build-depends probably yes.16:13
MohammadAGX-Fade, and this is ironic http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/perl/5.8.3-3osso11+0m5/16:13
MohammadAGRepository: Maemo 5 device SSU repository (PR1.2)16:14
MohammadAGWarning: This package has missing dependencies!16:14
X-FadeMohammadAG: No that was just an import mistake by me.16:14
MohammadAGlol16:14
MohammadAGX-Fade, you could import perl-modules to that repo and fix your mistake :p16:14
X-FadeHmm wait, that one is weird.16:15
MohammadAGbtw it's non-free since optifying perl breaks it, but optifying perl-modules doesn't break it16:15
MohammadAGand I'm not really sure how to optify one package that's made by a source which provides a lot of packages16:15
MohammadAGmost messed up sentence I've said ^16:15
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vldcnstX-Fade: May I pm you?16:18
MohammadAG~ping16:18
infobot~pong16:18
X-Fadevldcnst: sure16:19
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MohammadAGX-Fade, actually, I have a suggestion, which looks like a proper fix, perl-modules is only 2MBs, dump my non-free upload and import the Fremantle SDK one into the SSU repo16:20
MohammadAGhaving a free package in non-free is just wrong16:20
X-FadeMohammadAG: Yes, I'll ping the SDK team to see what is up with that package.16:21
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MohammadAGX-Fade, if you actually end up importing the SDK package, do you mind rejecting my maintainer request?16:27
X-FadeSure.16:27
MohammadAGty16:27
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SpeedEvilIs there any reason cpan on the device would do bad things?16:30
gomiam:)16:32
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MohammadAGgrr16:40
MohammadAGjust when I get dig working...16:40
MohammadAGThe following packages will be REMOVED:16:41
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MohammadAG  busybox-symlinks-dnsutils mp-fremantle-generic-pr16:41
MohammadAGThe following NEW packages will be installed:16:41
MohammadAG  dnsutils libbind9-60 libdns64 libisc60 libisccc60 libisccfg60 liblwres6016:41
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alteregoHeh16:42
proyconDoes this sounds ok for full flash of the N900?16:42
proyconflasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f16:42
proyconflasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -f16:42
proyconEMMC second right? and no -R flags?16:42
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MohammadAGdoesn't matter, don't use -R in both to be on the safe side, but the eMMC flash will get rid of everything on the 32GB chip16:43
MohammadAGumm16:43
proyconyeah16:43
MohammadAGisn't that the old emmc image?16:43
proyconhmm16:43
proycondate looks odd indeed16:44
proycongood you mention it16:44
proyconlet me check16:44
MohammadAG41-1, it's the old one16:44
haltdefso is there an extended battery that behaves with the n900 out there yet? or am I best just buying another bl-5j and keeping one spare :|16:45
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MohammadAGI have 3 batteries, imo it's better than buying a Mugen one which the N900 can't properly use (shows full battery till it's dead)16:45
proyconah, right RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin16:45
haltdefyea, I've grown quite attached to the kickstand too16:46
MohammadAG:)16:46
proyconok, that's the one I had, I just copy/pasted the wrong thing :)16:46
MohammadAGheh16:46
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SpeedEvilMohammadAG: you can show the proper capacity in a deskgop widget16:47
proyconit says I can't power up in the meantime, so I can't first flash the PR_COMBINED, test, and then see if I still want to flash the EMMC?16:47
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, so it's an applet problem?16:47
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SpeedEvilMohammadAG: well - ...16:48
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: It's really a ssytem software problem.16:48
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: but you can bypass it.16:48
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ghostcubehi folks, any news for ovi store update maybe, games apps anything16:51
ghostcube:D16:51
GAN900Retail--One of the more efficient means of developing a deep and abiding distate for humanity.16:51
CornishNerdHi guys, my N900 doesn't update the 'people nearby plugin for conversation and contacts'..any ideas pelase?16:51
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mortiniGAN900: idk, i think working in a resturaunt/fast food resturaunt is worse.16:53
mortinialthough, i guess i've never worked actual retail.16:53
alteregoIt's dire16:55
GAN900mortini, they're both pretty bad, I think16:55
GAN900Restaurant work is surely more strenuous.16:55
mortinipeople tend to be pretty abusive in a fast food environment.16:56
mortinior, any resturaunt, i guess16:56
alteregoGAN900: vote for my app thanks :)16:56
mortinitreating people as 'servents'16:56
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MohammadAGalterego, I so want to kick you right now :P16:57
alteregoMohammadAG: why?16:57
GAN900mortini, people have control issues, sadly.16:57
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alteregoBecause I'm annoyingly proactive? :P16:57
MohammadAGyes :P16:57
GAN900Power play16:58
Hoxzerno16:58
MohammadAGalterego, again, you'll have to wait 10 days, so why do you actually want all votes now16:58
MohammadAGbtw the 10 day thingy starts when you push the package to -testing, not when you reach 10 votes16:58
proyconwhen the flash writing is done in the flasher program, shouldn't the device be ready immediately?16:58
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MohammadAGwhen you're done with both images type flasher-3.5 -R16:59
MohammadAGor just unplug the cable :p16:59
proyconI did the latter yeah16:59
proyconI'll try the -R thing first16:59
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alteregoMohammadAG: I understand, but getting the votes asap means I can move my focus else where.16:59
proyconah good, booting now17:00
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alteregoI just like to keep things tidy :P17:00
mortinialterego: which app?17:00
alteregohttp://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/media-im-status-updater/0.4/17:00
mortiniah17:00
alteregomortini: ^17:01
alterego:)17:01
proyconhmm.. it's taking far too long to boot17:01
mortinibut how can i vote for something i haven't used!17:01
proyconthe loader/spinner thingie is running17:01
mortini:D17:01
Scelthttp://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Rob/newphone.png17:01
alteregomortini: test it, then vote :)17:02
mortiniproycon: it'll take awhile to boot after flashing17:02
proyconok17:02
alteregomortini: unless you really trust those that have tested and voted already.17:02
proyconah17:02
proyconyeah!17:02
proyconI'm in!17:02
proyconwow :)17:02
proyconand my sound is back!17:02
proycon(that was the problem)17:02
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ptmnÈÕÊ17:03
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MohammadAG<proycon> hmm.. it's taking far too long to boot17:03
alteregoMohammadAG: I know I probably come across as a shameless self promoter, but I really have nothing better to do this exact second.17:04
MohammadAGfirst boot, it optifies stuff in /usr/share, so it's moving files :)17:04
proyconah, ok17:04
proyconit should have told me that then :)17:04
greenmang0hello friends.... i am looking for a iso or img file of maemo so that i can try it out on virtualbox.... but i didn't find it on maemo website... is such file available? and if not how can i try it on virtualbox?17:04
proyconotherwise I panic :)17:04
MohammadAGalterego, I'm just winding you up anyways17:04
alteregoMohammadAG: :)17:04
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SpeedEvilgreenmang0: virtualbox will not work.17:04
SpeedEvilgreenmang0: virtualbox is x86 processor, maemo is arm17:05
MohammadAGthe one on the N900 anyways17:05
MohammadAGthe one that runs in the X86 target in scratchbox is X86, not ARM17:05
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greenmang0SpeedEvil: ok.. so there's no way i can try it on PC ?17:05
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: yes - but that's not the full UI is it.17:06
MohammadAGonly the applets and some closed parts are missing17:06
SpeedEvilgreenmang0: You can try some aspects of it with the 'scratchbox' development systme.17:06
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greenmang0MohammadAG: that means i can try Scratchbox on VirtualBox17:06
MohammadAGOvi maps, nokia messaging etc..17:06
MohammadAGjust install scratchbox on a linux box17:06
SpeedEvilthis is not really aimed at providing a 'feel-alike' device really, though it may be good enough17:07
greenmang0SpeedEvil: ok... but how? is there any iso/img available?17:07
MohammadAG~maemosdk17:07
infobotrumour has it, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation17:07
SpeedEvilscratchbox17:07
SpeedEvilyeah - that17:07
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greenmang0SpeedEvil: well.. those links don't work17:09
greenmang0MohammadAG: ^^17:09
MohammadAGfix your internet connection17:09
MohammadAGDocumentation/Maemo 5 Final SDK Installation17:09
greenmang0MohammadAG: ok... cool... it's working17:10
greenmang0:)17:10
mortinithe installer script works pretty well, fwiw.17:11
mortiniat least, i ran it on a ubuntu 9.10 vm17:11
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RST38hOMG, Texrat has written yet *another* open letter17:11
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proyconCan I safely copy back .osso-abook and .purple from my manual backup, to get my IM accounts and contacts back?17:14
alteregoRST38h: yeah, read it. Not as to the bone as his previous one. and though I appreciate what he's tried to do with it, I'm not convinced it wont come across dead ears at Nokia.17:14
* RST38h is convinced that nobody cares17:14
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RST38hCould someone put this into topic: http://posters-artprints-and-pictureframes.com/images_articles/dem-apathy.jpg17:17
mortiniheh.17:18
mortiniRST38h: applies to Google, as well17:20
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RST38hApplies to just about anyone, but is particularly exemplified by our belowed corporation17:23
RST38hs/belowed/beloved17:23
mortiniyeah17:24
alteregoRST38h: I care .... By the way ... Vote for my app! :D17:25
crashanddieRST38h: no17:25
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tybollthmm17:54
tybolltso I'm shopping for a nokia charger17:54
tybolltor ehr a microusb charger17:54
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tybolltw >500mA output17:54
tybolltlike the one íncluded w/ the n90017:54
tybolltseems the one at the store is 500 mA :(17:54
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tybolltwhy?17:54
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flailingmonkeybecause most devices support 500mA17:57
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flailingmonkeyalso, for dumb chargers, if they have not shorted out the data pins, my understanding is it won't fast charge17:58
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flailingmonkeyhow much is the Nokia one they include with the n90017:59
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tybollt1200 mA18:00
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flailingmonkeyi mean how much does it cost :P18:04
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_0x47amigadave: it turned out that the problem relatet my build errors were caused by the outdated package libsdl-mixer1.2-dev (1.2.6). I now created my own libsdl-mixer1.2-dev with 1.2.8 and it builds perfect :) I now have the problem that I cannot update the package in the repos to 1.2.8. the Autobuilder complains about it being there already...18:04
_0x47omg excuse the spelling18:05
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amigadave_0x47: ah, great, glad you found the problem18:05
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amigadavei think you cannot upload it to the autobuilder because that packages is shipped with the device18:06
amigadaves/packages/package/18:06
infobotamigadave meant: i think you cannot upload it to the autobuilder because that package is shipped with the device18:06
flailingmonkeyit only exists in sdk, and has no maintainer18:07
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MohammadAG51updating it would break the sdk then18:07
MohammadAG51playing with sdk packages isn't a smart move, as I did with man-db18:08
flailingmonkeywho maintains the sdk?18:08
_0x47amigadave: I see, and someone already told me to contact X-Fade regarding this issue. But he was not responding until now, and finally's gone fishing...18:09
MohammadAG51yes, i did18:09
_0x47yes, indeed :D18:09
MohammadAG51X-Fade responded to me today, but he pinged afaik18:10
_0x47can we use the debian repos and do a apt-get dist-upgrade? lolz18:10
_0x47pinged?18:10
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MohammadAG51ping timeout18:10
_0x47hm k, I wrote him yesterday in hope that he might see it when he returns. but now he's offline as you said.18:11
_0x47g2g anyways, so I'll try to catch him later.18:11
jacekowskihmmm,18:11
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jacekowskiit looks like cal is storing history of modifications18:11
_0x47we really should somehow get updated packages on the phone, most of them are like 4-6 years old ffs...18:12
_0x47bb18:12
D-IiviliDoes someone know how autofill nick name works in xchat (N900 port)?18:12
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flailingmonkeyD-Iivili: for irssi it's Tab (which is on the xterm bar)18:13
D-Iiviliflailingmonkey, i was talking about xChat, not irssi ;)18:14
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flailingmonkeyi know, but xchat is so much fail :(18:16
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MohammadAG51tap the title bar, settings, advanced, keyboard shortcuts, nick completion (5th line here), i have mine set to ctrl right18:17
mikki-kunhm, anybody knowing the command to execute the nokia qt sdk suite?18:17
mortinimikki-kun: you got  it installed?18:17
mikki-kunmortini: yup18:17
D-IiviliMohammad, thanks again :) Thanking you is becoming a habit :P18:17
mortiniunder pr1.2?18:17
mikki-kunuhm... i am running that from pc...18:17
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MohammadAG51D-Iivili, lol yw18:18
mikki-kunspecifically from under gentoo without any DE or something called "start menu" where it would be "easily" accesible18:18
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* pahartik configured "X-Chat" on "Nokia N900" to use <Shift>-<Space> for "nickname completion"18:19
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crashanddiethose are way too many quotes18:19
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crashanddiemikki-kun: you're using gentoo, you should know about the terminal, yeh?18:20
MohammadAG51lol18:21
mortinimikki-kun: oh. I think it's in /usr/share/qtsomething18:21
mortinioh18:21
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mikki-kuncrashanddie: i surely do, but as there is nowhere documentation of what the command is called for executing the nokia sdk i thought i would ask here before running to nokia and complaining about "sure it's nice to install it, but even giving readmes in html is a lil... old"18:21
mortinium18:21
mikki-kunthanks mortini, i'll give it a look18:22
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crashanddiemikki-kun: also, portage allows you to inspect which files are being installed, very helpful for packages with shady documentation18:22
mikki-kuncrashanddie: nokia sdk needs to be installed manually18:23
mortinimikki-kun: /usr/share/doc/python-qt4-doc <- where it's installed under ubuntu anyways18:23
mikki-kunno portage support there...18:23
crashanddiemikki-kun: ah, shame18:23
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mikki-kunmehhh, still can't find it...18:24
mikki-kuni'll search for sdk now...18:25
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MohammadAG51where are control files store again?18:26
MohammadAG51stored*18:26
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mortiniin /etc?18:27
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MohammadAG51err...18:27
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MohammadAG51nvm18:29
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LantiziaHey you know the FM transmitter, any chance I can get it to transmit on a frequency other than those preprogrammed?18:34
LantiziaI have cordless FM headphones and would like to pick up the N90018:34
mikki-kuncan somebody do me a favor and execute his qt sdk, check what the process is called and tell me?18:34
Lantiziahttp://www.p4c.philips.com/files/s/shc8525_00/shc8525_00_pss_eng.pdf18:35
Lantizia863.0 - 865.0 MHz18:35
crashanddieLantizia: no way in hell18:35
Lantiziacrashanddie, how come?18:35
crashanddieLantizia: antenna design? chipset design?18:35
flailingmonkeyLantizia: rofl. FX transmitter calls don't go above 180 MHz18:36
Lantiziaflailingmonkey, argue against that datasheet then - have fun18:36
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Lantiziacrashanddie, you've used question marks, how come?  I'd have thought a chipset design wouldn't hamper which frequency - isn't it just a matter of tuning?18:36
Lantiziaan FM transmitter is an FM transmitter surely - just a matter of distance18:37
Jartzahas anyone run into same problem as I have? I get no sound notification when new sms is received18:37
crashanddieLantizia: where did you see FM in that document?18:37
JartzaI tried to search for bug database but couldn't find anything18:37
Lantiziacrashanddie, page 2 where it says Modulation18:37
crashanddieoh, second page, on the right18:37
mikki-kunJartza: maybe you have your sound for sms muted?18:37
achipaLantizia: don't mix modulation with frequency18:37
crashanddieLantizia: you do realise that the size and shape of the antenna defines what frequencies you can receive/transmit on?18:38
Lantiziaachipa, I'm not, your not... hands up anyone who is18:38
Jartzamikki-kun: nope18:38
Lantiziacrashanddie, no, but now I do - do we know for sure the N900 is thus incapable?18:38
flailingmonkeyLantizia: I thought you wanted a a value 10x higher18:38
Lantiziathis is discover you know :)18:38
Lantizia*discovery18:38
achipa800MHz is not even VHF18:38
Jartzamikki-kun: I've set the volume to max for sms. still nothing.18:38
mikki-kunhm, maybe changing the sound to another one, saving and then picking the old one could help18:38
Jartzawhen the "conversation" is open, I get a small "plop", but that's not what I want.18:39
flailingmonkeyLantizia: it almost certainly should be 86.3 - 86.5 MHz18:39
Lantiziaachipa, well it can still be Frequency Modulation without being what we know as commercial FM18:39
Lantiziaflailingmonkey, ditto as above18:39
Jartzaif "conversations" is closed, then there is nothing. no sound, no notification light.18:39
Jartzathe message "just appears" to conversations.18:39
crashanddieLantizia: considering that the mid-point of normal FM is roughly 97.5, the engineers would probably have designed it to have it's optimal range aroudn there somewhere. So, even if you could connect something that were able to transmit at 800 Mhz, the antenna would be as effective as your finger, or a piece of wood.18:39
Jartzaand this is PR1.218:40
mikki-kunhm... doesn't sound too funny tbh.. sorry, i am a lil out of ideas then18:40
albancHow to detect from a script whether it is a maemo device (maemo5 or maemo6) or a linux desktop?18:40
lcukcrashanddie, technically the size and shape of the antenna defines the optimal properites, you can use a paperclip as antenna to transmit almost any frequency, however it will be wasteful and not get the distance of a tuned coathanger :p18:40
Lantiziacrashanddie, you think the FM trasmitter that came with the headphones is much bigger? it isn't18:40
JartzaI tried even hard reboot, but no help18:40
mikki-kunalbanc: one easy way is via "uname -a"18:40
Lantizialcuk, tell me your more hopeful :)18:41
achipaLantizia: you can tweak the oscillators all you want, but that range is NOT for the FM transmitter chip. Even if you could set up the multipliers for a high enough frequence (which I doubt), the antenna design is way off, so... you'll either burn it or it will be mute18:41
mikki-kunlocally of course...18:41
crashanddieLantizia: it doesn't have to be bigger, it has to be at the right size/ratio18:41
lcukLantizia, i dunno what you are doing so cant say18:41
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crashanddieLantizia: for the same reason that a can of beef is excellent as a wifi antenna, but not a can of potatochips18:41
achipacrashanddie: worse, actually, than your finger, prolly :)18:41
Lantizialcuk, get the N900 to transmit between 863.0 - 865.0 MHz for my cordless headphones18:41
crashanddieachipa: true18:41
lcukLantizia, doubt it18:42
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mikki-kunhey, fingers are pretty good in destroying phone signals... at least when it's an apple iphone 4 ^^18:42
lcukmost tuning circuits operate in their frequency range and require real mods to change18:42
crashanddieLantizia: combine this with the fact that frequencies are defined by say, the hardware components of something (look up capacitors on wikipedia), and you end up with the n900 being *completely* unable to transmit at those frequencies (even if you had unlimited access to the firmware of the chip)18:42
lbt_Jaffa: pingy18:42
lcukthe antenna itself was what i had issue iwth18:42
Lantiziahmm ok discovery over :)18:43
Lantiziajust a thought18:43
crashanddiethen don't argue the opposite18:43
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* MohammadAG51 hands crashanddie a coffee18:43
crashanddiethanks18:43
flailingmonkeyLantizia: still, my original point was that the way that the FM transmitter interfaces with the chip, it's input has an upper range limit of 180, so you'd also have to write a new driver18:43
Lantiziacrashanddie, now now lets not get impolite18:43
LantiziaI wasn't arguing anything18:44
lcukalbanc, im betting you could find device arch from within qt18:44
Lantiziaflailingmonkey, ok18:44
crashanddieLantizia: hardly impolite, but whatever, let's move on18:44
Jaffalbt_: pongy18:44
flailingmonkeyleaving all that crazy antenna stuff to those hardware geeks :P18:44
Jaffacrashanddie: sorry I missed you earlier. In sunny Stockholm18:44
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crashanddieJaffa: I asked howzit, not where are you :P18:44
Jartzait's quite annoying because I use sms a lot18:45
crashanddieflailingmonkey: ever used the hardware keyboard on the N900?18:45
Jartzaand my phone doesn't tell when I receive one :P18:45
flailingmonkeycrashanddie: all the time18:45
achipaLantizia: think about it this way - why is it such a fuss to make a quad-petaband phone if you could tweak frequencies and modulations that easy ?18:45
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crashanddieflailingmonkey: OMG YOU BLOODY HARDWARE GEEK!!!eleven!18:46
MohammadAG51LOL you had that pretyped18:46
MohammadAG51:P18:46
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crashanddieindeed18:46
crashanddieisn't everything we say on IRC "pre-typed"?18:46
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Lantiziaachipa, true... you know years back I remember reading in a magazine someone was making a smallish univeral transmitter/receiver to basically roll things like BT/GSM/WiFi/FM/etc in to one - never knew what came of it18:47
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crashanddieI mean, it's typed before we hit enter18:47
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lbt_Jaffa: PM'ed you18:47
crashanddieLantizia: sounds like vaporware, really18:47
MohammadAG51crashanddie, no, I hit enter then start typing18:47
flailingmonkeyLantizia: actually, there is quite a bit of documentation on the N900 components in the wiki. I'm sure you can find detailed info about the FM transmitter chip there18:47
Lantiziawould be cool though, your method of radio communication would become a matter of software18:47
crashanddieMohammadAG51: that's because you write right to left :P18:48
Lantiziaflailingmonkey, no I believe you all :)18:48
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MohammadAG51crashanddie, nope, I reinvented typing!18:48
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crashanddieI wouldn't mind my sentences being auto-submitted as soon as I stop typing for 2 or more seconds18:48
haltdefanywhere cheaper than nokia directly for a genuine replacement battery or is that just how much bl-5j's cost :<18:48
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mortiniLantizia: there's some project out there that's made a 'universal' radio transmitter that can send/recieve on any frequency. it's just not overly legal in the US18:48
crashanddiehaltdef: you can get !nice chinese replacements, that will be very !awesome.18:49
MohammadAG51crashanddie, what if you're thinking about what you typed :p18:49
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haltdefheh, I did say genuine :P18:49
Kegetysgnu radio?18:49
Lantiziacrashanddie, i really !like you alot18:49
Lantizia:P18:49
crashanddieLantizia: i love you too18:49
E0xi was using mapero the last saturday i am set a route then suddenly a voice come out in italian , left turn18:50
Lantiziaawww18:50
E0xi was like o_O18:50
* MohammadAG51 plays wedding music18:50
E0xwhere ican change the language  of that i never set it in italian18:50
rafaelbrandaoI need to backport usb stack from a recent kernel on my n810... could anyone help me?18:51
* crashanddie runs to the hifi and changes the song to Beckham's Ode: "Oy, Beckham, how's Posh? Doooes she taaaaake it uuup the aaaarse???"18:51
trip0wifi sucks on my n900 :(18:51
MohammadAG51rofl crashanddie18:52
crashanddieNokia is really acting more and more stupid with the MyNokia shit18:52
MohammadAG51crashanddie, isn't this a family channel?18:52
crashanddieand?18:52
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MohammadAG51your last /me?18:53
crashanddiehttp://www.google.com/search?q=define:aaaarse18:53
mortinitrip0: http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_power_saving_mode18:53
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MohammadAG51lol18:53
mikki-kuncrashanddie: not found...18:53
trip0mortini, you are the awesome18:54
crashanddiemikki-kun: my point exactly ;)18:54
crashanddiemikki-kun: it wasn't a swearword :D18:54
mikki-kunremove the first 3 a then you know what you have...18:54
crashanddiehey, now you're putting words in my mouth, I never used such a rude word.18:54
Lantiziaanyone made a cradle for the N900 yet btw that anyone knows of?  preferably one that can charge a 2nd battery18:54
MohammadAG51LOL18:54
mikki-kunproblem is, nearly every other word is "longend" therefore you gotta also think that way and those long vocals get shortend to just one and that means you're busted...18:54
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crashanddiedoes it?18:55
mikki-kuni'd say so18:55
crashanddie:(18:55
* MohammadAG51 votes for a kick18:55
*** ChanServ sets mode: +q *!*@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie18:55
mikki-kunahhh, no kick :(18:55
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie18:56
*** crashanddie was kicked by crashanddie (crashanddie)18:56
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mikki-kun:D18:56
mikki-kunmuhahaha18:56
*** ChanServ sets mode: -q *!*@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie18:56
mikki-kunnow that is... kinda disturbing18:56
MohammadAG51argh, i was just setting up a party cause you left18:56
crashanddieI saw you snaking for the kick, I couldn't let my fans down18:56
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MohammadAG51now a permanent kickban pwease18:56
jacekowski /kickban MohammadAG5118:57
crashanddienha, that's too disruptive18:57
Surfanice show.. but can't locate fun at all18:57
mikki-kunthat's a lil overkill i'd say18:57
crashanddiekickbans always cause +m on the channel as long I'm away and stuff, not fun for anyone18:58
Jartzagnah18:58
Jartzanothing. I get no sound of sms.18:58
crashanddieunless MohammadAG51, but he's laughing as soon as you say pee-pee poo-poo18:58
Jartzaannoying.18:58
MohammadAG51crashanddie, err?18:58
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crashanddies/unless/except18:58
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rookie2010hi i have a question for everybody, how i make a full backup of my n81019:06
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iPeter-Hi19:08
iPeter-Is it possible to call with that android thing19:08
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MohammadAG51no, not yet, and #nitdroid-help19:09
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iPeter-MohammadAG51: Okay, thanks of info. Going still to ask in here, is it possible to have it on dualboot19:12
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Jartzadoes anyone has any suggestions what to try out when I don't get any sms-sounds?19:12
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JartzaI tried changing the tone, changing the volume etc.19:12
Jartzastill just silence when the message appears19:13
crashanddieJartza: did you reboot?19:13
Jartzayes19:13
Jartzadid hard reboot19:13
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crashanddiedid you change the profile?19:13
Jartzayes19:13
Jartzato silent and back19:13
MohammadAG51iPeter-, this is called #maemo, not #nitdroid-help19:13
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Lantiziado the sound files even exist?19:13
Jartzayes :)19:13
MohammadAG51stay on topic19:13
iPeter-Jartza: Do you have MediaPlayer on19:13
Jartzathey are played in settings -> profile19:13
iPeter-MohammadAG51: I know, lol. But it seems to be non active19:14
Lantiziais alsamixer showing everything is up?19:14
JartzaI can hear the tones loud and clear19:14
Jartzano mediaplayer. this happens even after boot.19:14
rookie2010who recomends n90019:14
iPeter-i do19:14
JartzaLantizia: alsamixer only shows "Master"...19:14
iPeter-rookie2010: I recommend N900 (;19:14
rookie2010and the repositories19:15
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rookie2010i have a question how i can install the app in other folder19:15
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Jartzabut master is at 100% and not muted19:15
MohammadAG51you don't, it's not symbian19:15
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JartzaI've had this problem since the beginning.19:16
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crashanddieJartza: have you tried reflashing?19:17
Jartzaactually, I think I've heard the sms-sound once or twice :P19:17
Jartzacrashanddie: that I haven't tried, no.19:17
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Jartzathis is almost mint phone. just updated to PR1.219:18
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JartzaI might try reflashing then19:21
Jartzaalthough PR1.2 update went just smoothly19:22
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MohammadAG51argh, lost my scratchbox install on my laptop :/19:22
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mikki-kunoh my...19:24
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mikki-kuni want the source for maemo-sdk -.-19:24
MohammadAG51~maemosdk19:25
infobotmaemosdk is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation19:25
mikki-kunMohammadAG51: sourcecode which install via checking which versions of libs i have19:25
mikki-kunnow it want libpng12... i have libpng14...19:25
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marcusHeya guys, when programming an application for vertical view (on n900), how do you do that? Do you program the app so it's kind of rotated?19:27
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MiXu-Qt has built in support for rotation. So you don't really need to do much.19:30
andre__marcus, http://wiki.maemo.org/Using_Fremantle_Widgets#Portrait_Mode19:30
marcusMiXu-: Unfortunately, I'm starting out with pyGTK so far.19:31
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MiXu-marcus: Are you just starting or do you have an existing project already?19:32
rookie2010i dont have enough memory how i can install the app to another folder19:32
marcusMiXu-: Starting. TBH I thought QT looked a little harder than gtk.19:33
nomismarcus: it is not a question of the toolkit, the application just needs to a) tell the x-server that it requests Portrait mode and b) listen to what the X-server tells it.19:33
nomismarcus: andre__ has the relevant link.19:33
E0xthat scratchbox debian repositories is give me this error: .....(stdin) is not a bzip2 file....19:33
MiXu-marcus: I strongly suggest you forget about GTK. Future-wise Qt is a better bet on Maemo/MeeGo.19:33
MiXu-Go with pyQt if you don't like C++.19:34
lcukmarcus, you as app designer should just think about your UX layouts being 480*800 or other portraity variations19:34
andre__MeeGo supports both Qt and GTK, with Qt as default...19:34
marcusMiXu-: I can only agree with you on that, and I do like C++, but I like the possibility to edit the application while being on the n900.19:34
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marcuslcuk: Yeah, I thought that was how it worked. I just need to look a little more on that link to find out how to tell the x-server it is in portrait.19:35
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* nomis does not trust people who like C++.19:35
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MiXu-andre__: Yes, it does. But I'm pretty sure that life will be easier for a MeeGo Qt developer than for a GTK developer.19:35
lcuksure19:35
andre__heh, true - might be19:35
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* marcus has been doing Visual Basic and Delphi before, but think C++ is better for his needs19:35
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lcuknomis, sometimes c++ is a decent thing to have19:35
lcuk:p19:35
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MohammadAG51most of the times, it's not :P19:36
jonnedoes anyone have recommendations for replacemend headphones for the n900?19:36
* RST38h uses BH-905, they are good19:36
jonneshould i get the same ones or is there a better option?19:36
marcusCan't do much with Visual Basic and Delphi (we do have Lazarus though) on Linux.19:36
MiXu-Do you need a mic?19:36
RST38hexpensive and tend to fall off though19:36
lcukjonne, depends on your needs19:36
MohammadAG51lol19:36
jonnenot really19:36
* lcuk uses visual basic on linux19:36
MiXu-If you don't need a mic then _any_ normal headphones will do.19:36
RST38hSouthwing makes cheap, semidecent headphones19:36
jonnebarely used the mic, tbh19:36
MohammadAG51i wanted a BH-505, but Nokia in JO is kinda f'd up19:36
rookie2010the n900 support video conference with skype19:37
MiXu-You have about one million options :)19:37
RST38hMohammad: Got mine at discount from Amazon19:37
nomislcuk: I don't trust you, then  :)19:37
lcuklol nomis19:37
marcuslcuk: Oooh, pretty! What is it called?19:37
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jonneanyt headphones will do then? will they work with the radio thing?19:37
lcukpretty?19:37
marcusWait19:37
MiXu-I've been pretty happy with Sennheiser PMX-40 and Creative EP-63019:37
lcukits called visual basic..19:37
marcusThat didn't turn out right.19:37
jonnebecause i occasionally use that19:37
marcusExactly.19:37
* marcus slaps himself.19:37
lcuki run it in windows but it does stuff for linux19:37
MiXu-Both of them are relatively cheap19:37
RST38hMohammad: If it is any consolation, they appear to have problems terminating calls with N90019:37
* lcuk gets c code out of vb19:37
marcuslcuk: So you aren't compiling it on linux?19:37
MohammadAG51RST38h, the 505?19:38
RST38hCall->Music transition sometimes freaks them out (never happened to me though)19:38
RST38hNo, 90519:38
lcukmarcus im compiling the generated c code on linux19:38
MohammadAG51oh, read about those19:38
lcukbut i use visual basic to layout things19:38
RST38hlcuk: Switch to Qt already19:38
marcuslcuk: aha19:38
MohammadAG51RST38h, you got me confused, I said 505 :P19:38
RST38hlcuk: Stop this atrocity =)19:38
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RST38hMohammad: Ah, sorry19:38
lcukRST38h, does the qt designer do plugins19:38
MohammadAG51Qt is the devil's spawn19:38
MiXu-BH-204 isn't bad either. Not super high quality, but light and nice plugs.19:38
lcukdoes it make like SIMPLE19:39
lcuklife19:39
MiXu-No, sorry. I meant BH-21419:39
RST38hlcuk: afaik, it should19:39
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RST38hMohammad: I would feel uncomfortable in 50519:39
MohammadAG51RST38h, why's that?19:39
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nomislcuk: if you want to see the atrocities withing C++: here is a starting point: http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/defective.html19:40
RST38hHehehehe: http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/06/28/how-do-you-hold-your-nokia/19:40
RST38hMohammad: they plug into your ears19:40
MohammadAG51RST38h, the stock ones are likes that too19:41
Jartzaduh19:42
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Jartzathere's a bit too many images in the fw-download page :)19:42
Jartzaand do I have to reflash eMMC too?19:42
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RST38hMohammad: not using them, for exactly this reason19:44
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Jartzaso I have to download the eMMC "latest" and "latest maemo 5 global release" as I'm in finland?19:45
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MiXu-Unless your eMMC is "broken" somehow, you don't need to flash it.19:47
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JartzaI don't know what's broken, but the problem still is that I don't get any SMS sounds.19:50
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Jartzaand I've tried everything so far. the SMS just appears in conversations, but no notification sounds, whatever I do19:50
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RST38hChina Based Company now does iPad app development too19:51
RST38hFreaking spammers19:52
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RST38hmoo vdvsx19:53
VDVsxhey RST38h :)19:54
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Venemogood afternoon!19:55
rafaelbrandaohello :)19:55
SpeedEvilLantizia: Fundamentally - the delicious SDR is a lie.19:56
RST38hVDVsx: Do you know anything about OpenGLES or PowerVR?19:56
* RST38h has got a technical question19:56
rafaelbrandaoI've got this while running a lib here: "Unsupported ioctl: cmd=0x40085511" any ideas?19:56
SpeedEvilLantizia: You can in principle roll every radio in the n900 into one 4GHz A/D and D/A, and a DSP.19:56
jacekowskirafaelbrandao: run it on normal platform19:56
jacekowskirafaelbrandao: not in scratchbox19:56
rafaelbrandaoseriously?? :o19:57
VDVsxRST38h, nop, little of OGL only19:57
SpeedEvilLantizia: It will be hard to lift, and use maybe 1000W.19:57
jacekowskirafaelbrandao: qemu can't emulate that ioctl19:57
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rafaelbrandaoyou just made my day, jacekowski.19:57
rafaelbrandaomy hero :D19:57
rafaelbrandaoI was thining on that but how could I guess :D thanks19:57
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SpeedEvilLantizia: there is progress going on in integrating multiple radios into the same package - but these are generally _not_ SDR - they are radios that are designed to work together. For example, the n900 has bluetooth+FM radio in one package. There exist bluetooth + FM radio + wifi in the same package.19:58
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LantiziaSpeedEvil, interesting info19:59
* Lantizia reads up on SDR20:00
flailingmonkeySDR would be an exceptionally disruptive tech20:00
flailingmonkeydelicious disruption20:00
Lantiziahurrah! they're the best kind20:00
SpeedEvilSDR works. It's just that with current tech it uses (often) 10-1000 times the power of a 'proper' radio in hardware.20:01
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SpeedEvilA point I often use is that a properly shaped bit of crystal can do 5 billion floating point calculations a second on a nanowatt.20:01
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flailingmonkeyi'll order up some reconfigurable materials then20:03
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marcusMiXu-: ImportError: No module named qt /cry20:08
marcusMiXu-: I do have pyqt4 and qt installed though. Running Arch Linux here.20:08
SpeedEvilLantizia: To answer your initial question - the FM transmitter can transmit in the range of (IIRC) 70-110MHz or so. Absolutely not on 800.20:09
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fralsvrooooom20:10
Lantiziaok ok !20:10
fralsgoing from 100mbit to 1mbit is A W E S O M E!20:10
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flailingmonkeyfrals: depends on how restricted/filtered the 100mbit is, like my work connection20:23
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alteregoAre you bored and looking for something to do?20:30
MohammadAG51no20:30
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alteregoDo you wish you could be a champion in the maemo community?20:32
alteregoDo you enjoy working with fun new peices of software?20:32
MohammadAG51no one wants to vote for your app, take a hint20:33
alteregoWell, I've got just the thing for you all, test my package: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/media-im-status-updater/0.4/20:33
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alteregoMohammadAG51: lies, everyone is jumping at the opportunity, remember kids, there's only four more slots, so hurry up!!!20:34
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alteregoThis is a once in a life time opportunity!20:34
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MohammadAG51alterego, you don't have anything better to do, do you...20:34
lcukalterego, does it update to my geocities page?20:35
MohammadAG51wasn't geocities shut down lol20:35
alteregolcuk: it does if you use copy & paste!20:35
MohammadAG51which you can't do :p20:36
alteregoOf course you can, what do you think it was for iPhone?!?20:37
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MohammadAG51alterego, you either implemented the echo stuff or you're being an idiot :P20:37
alteregoMohammadAG51: neither, I'm being ironic :)20:38
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BCMM_anyone use mnotes?20:39
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BCMM_it says it syncs against a webservice, but doesn't make it clear which service it means20:40
BCMM_i'm looking for something that can sync notes between my desktop and phone, without being tomboy20:40
timeless_mbpalterego: ping20:41
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alteregopong20:42
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alteregowould you like to smell my ping pong pong?20:42
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timeless_mbpno20:43
alterego:)20:43
timeless_mbpabout media im status20:43
alteregoyessir?20:43
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timeless_mbpthe list of accounts is not in a sane order20:43
timeless_mbpcould you make it match presence order?20:43
alteregoshit, I knew I forgot something.20:44
MohammadAG51hide facebook too :P20:44
alteregoYeah, I'll add it in 1.020:44
timeless_mbpi have: gtalk; gtalk; jabber; sip; skype; sip; gtalk20:44
alteregoI was going to do it alphabetical.20:44
MohammadAG51it's at 0.4... lol20:44
timeless_mbpalterego: well, the gtalks are all timeless...20:44
timeless_mbpi'd suggest you match presence order20:45
alteregoSure, but my next version will be 1.0 which will probably be the final release.20:45
timeless_mbpit isn't necessarily a sane order, but being what others will expect is good20:45
BCMM_installing mnotes doesn't take one any closer to finding out what webservice it uses or how to get an account...20:45
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alteregoIt's just the order they're returned bu the dbus call.20:45
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timeless_mbpalterego: you'll want to sniff or ask around for how presence orders it20:46
* timeless_mbp presumes it sorts by service20:46
alteregoOh, that's easy to implement :)20:46
timeless_mbpfwiw, the sort i have is:20:46
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timeless_mbpgtalk [ timeless.1; timeless.2; timeless] ; sip; skype; jabber20:47
alteregoLike I said, I'm not sorting at all, I imagine it's in order of creation tbh20:47
timeless_mbpwhich does look like alpha sort w/in protocol20:47
timeless_mbpit isn't20:47
e-yeshow to bring keyboard backlight on by software? echo 255 > /sys/class/leds/lp5523:kb1/brightness works, but backlight fades out in half of second20:47
alteregocheck your accounts.ini file or whatever it is :)20:47
timeless_mbpthe gtalk item at the end of my list would not have been created last :)20:47
SpeedEvile-yes: it's a mce thing20:47
alteregoOh, well, maybe look at the file anyway20:47
e-yesSpeedEvil, let assume mce is not running20:48
e-yes(in case of nitdroid)20:48
MohammadAG51it wouldn't shut off :)20:48
timeless_mbpdefinitely not accounts.cfg order20:48
MohammadAG51also as DocScrutinizer said, try sleep 3; echo etc... and it should stay on unless you touch the screen20:49
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alteregoAnyway, yes, I'll order by presence and proto and alpha.20:53
alteregotimeless_mbp: that seem reasonible?20:53
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hahlohi, got error "libcrypto.so.0.9.7: cannot open shared object file: No such file or director" do I miss some library?20:54
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timeless_mbpalterego: i believe so20:59
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alteregotimeless_mbp: well, I'll be releasing the progress to 1.0 in devel for people to play with, so I'll let you know when that occurs :)21:00
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* lbt_ looks around...21:04
timeless_mbpalterego: i'll vote 0.4 out in a bit21:04
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timeless_mbpbut right now i'm busy yelling at chase21:04
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timeless_mbp(the bank)21:04
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Jartzawhat21:04
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Jartzathis is absurd21:04
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Jartzano SMS sound still21:04
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Jartzanot after reflash21:04
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alteregotimeless_mbp: thank you very much. Have fun.21:04
* alterego wonders off21:05
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jacekowskiJartza: this is sparta21:05
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jacekowskitimeless_mbp: i went to chase once21:05
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Jartzajacekowski: seems to be yes.21:05
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jacekowskitimeless_mbp: ( they were in same building as other bank i was looking for )21:05
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jacekowskitimeless_mbp: and they started selling me their shit straight away21:05
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MohammadAG51more like broken server21:06
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Milo-anyone else have problem connecting to msn with msn pecan or msn protocol plugin?21:07
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Milo-well, connecting not an issue, acquiring my contacts how ever is21:08
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alteregoMilo-: haze works fine for me. And I know a few others that seem to agree with me on Haze aswell. I recommend it over the others :)21:11
Milo-okay21:11
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alteregoThough, once I had to restart the device to get it to work. But that only happened once :P21:12
MohammadAG51Haze ftw21:12
MohammadAG51killall telepathy-haze alterego21:12
MohammadAG51if it happens again21:12
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Milo-alterego haze is not in maemo.org or testing?21:13
MohammadAG51WTF21:13
MohammadAG51battery went from half full to dead!21:13
Milo-half full to half dead?21:13
MohammadAG51red bar21:13
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luke-jrlol21:14
lbt_How do we deal with little shits who vote down apps for half-arsed reasons?21:15
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luke-jrwhat is sgx_misr?21:15
luke-jrand why is it eating 100% CPU and making N900 non-responsive?21:16
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timeless_mbpheh21:16
* timeless_mbp just realized that this n900 *knew* the number it just dialed was Chase21:16
lcuklbt_, shopper in testing?21:16
lbt_lcuk: yep21:17
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lbt_http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/shopper/0.5.12/21:17
lbt_lcuk: I'm going to include a special rule in the automation system just for him... <evil grin>21:18
lcukhaha21:18
lcuk:D21:18
lcukyou wont make that mistake again will you :p21:18
timeless_mbpjacekowski: oh well21:18
flailingmonkeyi just unignored the join/part/quit/nick messages for a minute in irssi... terrible idea21:18
timeless_mbpin my case, in 2008 they had a customer who couldn't spell his/her email address correctly21:18
lbt_lcuk: actually I'm glad I'm going through the QA pain21:19
lbt_it's so fucking annoying21:19
lcuk:) its good to see how it is21:19
timeless_mbpi forwarded their account verification message the same day to abuse@chase21:19
lbt_REALLY annoying21:19
lbt_and disheartening21:19
lbt_and off putting21:19
crashanddieflailingmonkey: oh yes, full ignore on nick changes, parts and joins is an absolute requirement on freenode21:19
lcukyes, and from it we will get a better mechanism21:19
timeless_mbpfor the past 2 years i've been trying to get them to fix the email address to not be mine21:19
lbt_and I feel like saying "well, F*CK YOU MAEMO"21:19
lcukbut we have stronger apps cos of it21:19
lcuk:O21:19
timeless_mbpi told them initially that i wasn't a customer21:19
lbt_so clearly there is work needed there ;)21:19
timeless_mbpbut that i couldn't say i didn't want to receive communications from them forever21:20
timeless_mbpmore recently they bought my bank21:20
timeless_mbpso now i *am* their customer21:20
timeless_mbpand they still haven't fixed it21:20
lbt_yeah, but I really empathise with the naysayers21:20
lcukthe issues are well documented and known21:20
lbt_*nod*21:20
lbt_but not changed?21:20
crashanddielbt_: I find it more effective to star out the c in fuck21:20
lcukbut also, you should know the rules21:20
crashanddielbt_: fu*k off :)21:21
lbt_crashanddie: I like that :)21:21
lbt_have you seen the BOSS stuff for MeeGo ?21:21
lbt_it's a bit naff-looking at the moment21:21
lbt_but I'm quite excited by it21:21
flailingmonkeyBOSS?21:21
flailingmonkey~BOSS21:22
lbt_Build Orchestration Supervision System21:22
flailingmonkeynice name21:22
lbt_took me ages to make that up ;)21:22
lcuknot yet lbt_ ive been busy myself21:22
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lbt_it's a cool little Ruby workflow system21:22
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lbt_I've been working on the AMQP link21:23
timeless_mbphey21:23
timeless_mbpwhy is Shopper listed in "Office"?21:23
lbt_timeless_mbp: multimedia?21:23
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lcuklbt: Section:21:24
lcukuser/office21:24
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lbt_yes ... where is better in the insane set of groupings?21:24
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timeless_mbpask GeneralAntilles?21:25
lcuklbt - ask the testing squad ;)21:25
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DocScrutinizer([2010-06-28 17:52:20] <crashanddie> Nokia is really acting more and more stupid with the MyNokia shit) Any pointer?21:26
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: ^^^21:27
lbt_timeless_mbp: when I read the descriptions (way back) that's where it fitted21:27
lbt_I've never changed it21:27
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: eh?21:28
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: what the hell are you talking about21:28
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timeless_mbplbt: ok21:28
timeless_mbpactually, looking at the other items i have, i don't know that it's really misplaced21:28
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* RST38h moos moodily21:28
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: if you call it talking about, a quote and the two words "any pointer"21:28
timeless_mbpshopper is basically a smart spreadsheet21:29
Milo-gah21:29
lbt_I really hate the sections... they are so non-personal and just so crap21:29
timeless_mbpand that's where spreadsheets go21:29
lbt_yup21:29
lbt_or a database21:29
Milo-still can't fetch contacts with msn-plugins :/21:29
timeless_mbplbt: remember, i'm using Catorize21:29
RST38hsmart spread shit21:29
timeless_mbpso i actually see them21:29
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timeless_mbp… after installing ...21:29
RST38hhmm...there may be uses for that21:29
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: I want to get a URL or similar pointer to the place WHERE nokia is acting more and more stupid21:29
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lbt_RST38h: :D21:30
Milo-how come I'm not able to fetch my msn contacts with any of the 4 msn plugins that can be found in maemo.org or extras and extras testing repo?21:30
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Milo-when I press "new IM" it just says "No contacts"21:30
timeless_mbphttp://www.nokia.com/A451503221:31
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: the council thread about mynokia, in community on tmo21:31
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: ...as I read your comment like there's ne statements or actions from Nokia in reply to the council open letter21:31
timeless_mbp^ my nokia21:31
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DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: a diff pkease, to the way they acted stupid there 2 days ago. What changed??21:33
timeless_mbpoh21:33
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timeless_mbpi don't think anything changed21:33
timeless_mbpi certainly haven't heard anything21:34
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: so that was a laggy comment to http://maemo.org/community/council/nokia_response_to_mynokia_subscription_in_pr1-2/ etc, not some new stuff?21:42
crashanddieyes21:42
DocScrutinizerk21:42
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jacekowskifu**** apple and fu***** drm in fu***** m4v files21:44
DocScrutinizermugur enache's comment has a point21:44
jacekowskionly thing i ever bought in shitstore21:44
jacekowskiand i can't play it now21:45
jacekowskibecause of drm21:45
DocScrutinizerHAHAHA21:45
lbt_ha ha21:45
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: give it back, reclaim your money21:46
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: more like - throw it in the garbage can as it's worthless, sue them for selling shit, then get your money back21:48
lcuksigh21:49
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* DocScrutinizer hands lcuk a cigar21:49
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Milo-nope, can't find a reason why those msn plugins can't fetch contacts21:53
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flailingmonkeyis MSN linked into the xbox live messaging stuff?21:55
Milo-no idea21:56
alteregoflailingmonkey: no, unfortunately not :(21:56
alteregoalterego: I'd love that as a telepathy plugin.21:57
alteregoI might actually have a look into that, if it appears to be the same protocol as MSN Messenger I will do it myself :)21:57
alteregoBut I'm currently working on a telepathy sharing service plugin21:57
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Milo-no contacts with haze either22:07
Milo-this stinks22:07
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alteregoMilo-: sounds very suspicious ...22:08
Milo-yes22:08
Milo-maybe msn server has lost all my contacts somehow22:08
Milo-or maybe there is a temp file somewhere22:08
alteregoflailingmonkey: I can easily do a text only Telepathy plugin for XBox, I'll work on it after my sharing plugin22:08
alteregoMilo-: try on a proper comp00ter22:08
alteregoHave you tried with pidgin?22:08
Milo-works on my desktop pc22:09
Milo-just a problem with my n90022:09
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alteregoMilo-: :(22:10
jacekowskiehh22:10
alteregoWish I could help, because if you can'#t see your contacts, then how will they be able to see your media IM statuses! :D22:10
jacekowskithere is like a gazillion of state machines in code of bme22:11
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flailingmonkeyjacekowski: disassembling that implement of insanity?22:20
jacekowskiyeah22:21
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flailingmonkeytoo bad you can't throw out the pats that never get used on the N90022:22
flailingmonkey*parts22:22
flailingmonkeya sort of coverage report22:22
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jacekowskiwell, i can do code coverage22:23
jacekowskibut thing is22:23
jacekowskithat it might not be covered because it needs certain condition to happen22:23
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: probably you don't want to know what BME really is doing22:25
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jacekowskii do22:27
gseverhi guys22:27
jacekowskii'm already craze22:27
jacekowskicrazy*22:27
jacekowskiso it can't get worse22:27
gsevertrying to customize conversations areas22:27
gseverwondering how to change the font size in conversations22:28
DocScrutinizerthe usual behaviour of BME, as strange and probably undesirable as it is, can easily be RE'd by simple observation. It's the "_UNLIKELY" branches that needed detailed analysis, and that's hard enough and also these parts in BME most likely are as borked as the main functionality22:28
jacekowski"_UNLIKELY"?22:29
flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer: indeed22:29
SpeedEvilIn practice - do we care?22:29
flailingmonkeyI believe he meant branches marked as unlikely, and therefore not predicted22:29
SpeedEvilThere just aren't that many corner cases.22:29
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jacekowskiwe don't know anything about dsme22:30
SpeedEvilThere are only maybe a dozen possible states, if that.22:30
DocScrutinizer(unlikely) heard it's a compiled directive to generate more effective code by telling which branch of a conditional control structure is more seldom used22:30
SpeedEvilAnd most of them, the transitions are obvious.22:30
flailingmonkeySpeedEvil: unless bme includes corner cases for all nokia phones ever :P22:30
SpeedEvilOr at least obvious to generate code that will work at least as well.22:31
flailingmonkeyif we had the requirements, the whole process would be straightforward22:31
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: exactly. It's more like we NEED to know about the emergency brakes and special case treatments (extreme temperature, extremely low cell voltage, etc)22:31
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SpeedEvilYeah.22:32
SpeedEvilBut most of those are fairly obvious to do - at least conservative.22:32
SpeedEvilFor example - no charge if temp >-20 or >5022:32
DocScrutinizerand I guess these are also braindead in a way we really just use them for scaring example how to NOT implement shit22:32
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: also no DIScharge >70°C22:33
SpeedEvilyeah22:33
DocScrutinizersee fried cell by OC+mencoder22:33
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DocScrutinizerbut all this either is hard to RE from BME, or is implemeted in a borked manner or not at all22:35
SpeedEvilyeah22:35
Milo-hmm ahaa, the contacts do exisst22:35
DocScrutinizeror all at once :-P22:35
Milo-exist*22:35
Milo-but can't access them through "conversations -> new IM"22:35
SpeedEvilLoad shedding for xample would be another useful too.22:35
DocScrutinizer??22:36
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Milo-have had some msn plugin issues22:37
Milo-used to be able to access msn contacts through "conversations -> new IM", but now it just shows "no contacts"22:37
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: just hits my mind: prolly what BME writes to CAL are some crappy estimations about real total capacity of cell etc22:37
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, that's what i think i've found22:37
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Load shedding as a useful task of BME I mean.22:38
DocScrutinizerwhat's load shedding?22:38
ShadowJKThose estimates are pretty darn borked22:38
SpeedEvilI don't see any good reason to write it to cal, and not a text.22:38
jacekowskiis cal wiped after flash?22:38
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: removing loads under unusual power conditions.22:38
jacekowskibecause it doesn't look like so22:38
jacekowskii've found a code that handles situation when there is no block named bme in cal22:38
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: cal never wiped22:39
jacekowskiand i've found another thing about cal22:39
lbt_timeless_mbp: haven't you voted yet?22:40
timeless_mbpsorry, distracted22:40
lbt_:D22:40
jacekowskii fucking hate wireless22:40
timeless_mbpthis was which, shoper?22:41
jacekowskigoing back to cal22:41
timeless_mbpmaybe w/ two ps?22:41
lbt_http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/shopper/0.5.12/22:41
DocScrutinizermy battery is charged to 100% *real* and pretty good condition now for ~24h, still lshal states it has 750mAh and 53%22:41
jacekowskiit seems to store previous values as well22:41
crashanddieI'm probably going to buy a bike again tomorrow22:41
lbt_SpeedEvil: ^^^22:41
jacekowskii'm not sure how to access them easily ( cal library only gives access to latest values )22:41
timeless_mbplbt: the red arrows for next/prev don't really fit my theme and are too thin :)22:41
* lbt_ looks at timeless_mbp....22:42
lbt_slowly22:42
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yes, it's simply they don't overwrite blocks in cal, rather they use fresh ones22:42
* lbt_ wonders if fiferboy is here...22:43
jacekowskiyeah22:43
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: and cal lib probably is as smart as old bread22:43
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fiferboylbt_: I'm here, but I haven't been listening22:43
jacekowskibut cal stores size of a block as well22:43
SpeedEvillbt: I suggest bugtracker link as https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Shopper - not the straight bugs URL22:43
jacekowskiwell, size of data written22:43
lbt_hey there... I'm pimping for shopper votes22:43
lbt_SpeedEvil: it's in git22:44
SpeedEvil?22:44
lbt_but I'm not releasing a fix with 7 + votes22:44
SpeedEvilah22:44
fiferboylbt_: I'm on it (installed the update the other night)22:44
lbt_when I have a version in extras22:44
lbt_then I'll push a new release at once22:44
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: anyway load shedding (what I called "no DIScharging on >70°) probably is a task for a much more central part of system, maybe even kernel itself. For sure a userland BME process isn't the right place to do that22:45
lbt_especially since I had 8 +ve votes until Emanuele 'psycho' Cassioli voted it down for *not having a long enough link to the bugtracker*22:45
lbt_SpeedEvil: also note the bug link in the About box :)22:46
SpeedEvillbt: Some people just put in the link to the ugtaracker, without actually making the app in the bug22:46
ShadowJKDo we have any easily accessible temperaturre sensor besides the one in bq27200?22:46
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: freq governor?22:46
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer?22:46
lbt_yeah, Shoppere was actually one of the earliest apps on maemo bugs22:46
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (load shedding)22:47
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: there are some22:47
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: for example - turning off the highest backlight option22:47
lbt_(clearly it was so long ago it was ye olde shoppere)22:47
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: always depends on what temperature you're interested in particularly22:47
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jacekowskiShadowJK: twlsomething does temperature as well22:47
ShadowJKWell for the not charging not discharging22:47
jacekowskiif i remember correctly22:47
* SpeedEvil votes down shopper. The binary size is not a prime number.22:48
lbt_fiferboy: not seen you about much (not sure if that's me or you though!)22:48
lbt_<grin>22:48
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: aiui for cell temperature the bq24150/27200 die temp is the best we can get22:48
fiferboylbt_: It's probably me.  I'm usually logged in to IRC but only been observing lately22:48
* lbt_ offers SpeedEvil a premium account on the new community OBS22:49
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: except for mugen which seems to have a real NTC on BSI22:49
lbt_fiferboy: that's allowed ... I do it a lot22:49
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fiferboylbt_: How is the OBS work coming along?22:50
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lbt_I was just too busy this weekend22:50
lbt_x-fade was on it today22:50
lbt_I'm working on a really neat automation system22:50
lbt_that I hope will power the new meego and maemo QA processes too22:50
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lbt_it's very close - but the HW hasn't been powered up yet AFAIK22:51
SpeedEvilPackages installed, and available for checking.22:51
SpeedEvilbabyphone colorflood evopedia extcalllog gargoyle gps-data-logger gpsrecorder gstreamer0.10-hantro hildon-im-keyboard-assistant hildon-im-keyboard-assistant-scv hildon-theme-variant-203 hoopsfrenzy icedtea6 kanatest led-pattern-editor libtimeshop maemo-mapper maenotify mafw-gst-subtitles-applet mafw-lastfm mstatus-applet ncalc omweather-gismeteo-ru-stations-db omweather-weather-com-stations-db openjazz portabase preinstalled-contacts-variant-203 python22:51
SpeedEvilargh22:51
SpeedEvilShould uninstalling kill the binary if it's still running?22:52
lbt_no22:52
lbt_not unless it's a daemon22:52
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: will kill it when it's trying to open/access some associated lib that got installed22:53
DocScrutinizersigsegv22:53
SpeedEvilyeah - I know it may later segfault, or do unexpected stuff.22:53
DocScrutinizerotherwise the handle of the process to it's own program text file aka binary will keep the file *data* alife22:53
DocScrutinizeralive*22:54
DocScrutinizer...until the handle is closed22:54
DocScrutinizerthe the disk space is actually freed by fs22:54
DocScrutinizerstandard unix fs behaviour aiui22:55
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DocScrutinizerknown issue with logrotate22:55
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DocScrutinizeryou don't rm /var/log/*, rather you do a ": >/var/log/*" to set size of file to 0, as otherwise the old large file lingers on 'forever' in a zombie state, while syslog still writes to that unnamed old file and not to the newly created empty logfile22:58
lbt_syslog-ng22:58
jacekowskiabout 40% done22:59
jacekowskicouple more hours22:59
jacekowskiand i'll have whole bme analysed22:59
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flailingmonkeyjacekowski: masochist, you deserve a pat of the back, and some cookies23:00
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I doubt we'll be *much* wiser then ;-D23:00
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: well, at least we will be able to tell for sure then what BME actually does NOT do23:01
V13ehlo... I'm struggling to make a multi-instance desktop applet/widget in python but the #$@#$$%#$ thing core dumps when calling HomePluginItem.get_applet_id(). Any ideas?23:01
DocScrutinizerhmm, just one - python shouldn't coredump23:02
V13i know :)23:02
* V13 tells python not to core dump23:03
V13(while moving the finger) "You shouldn't do that"23:03
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DocScrutinizerprobably some object not initialized correctly23:05
V13well... I first want to be sure that it is not something that I shouldn't do23:05
V13e.g. calling geT_applet_id()23:05
DocScrutinizerno idea, never looked it that23:05
DocScrutinizerinto (damn, missing even 2 keystrokes is rare also for this crap laptop kbd)23:06
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: what exactly is the primary topic for your REing of bme?23:09
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: is there a defined set of questions you want answers for?23:09
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: or are you looking for a particular functionality? or just out of curiosity?23:10
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V13nailed it... :)23:12
V13get_applet_id() doesn't work in the constructor.23:13
DocScrutinizerhehe23:13
DocScrutinizerV13: so my idea of a not correctly initialized object seems to be close23:14
DocScrutinizernot YET, maybe23:14
V13well.. it always is with python core dumps :P23:14
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: well, i would like to make open version of bme23:24
DocScrutinizerV13: anyway that's clearly a bug in get_applet_id()23:24
jacekowskiand find the code responsible for host mode usb power23:25
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: thare are already versions of a rudimentary open BME23:25
jacekowskiwell, most of them don't have half of original bme functionalities23:25
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: and there's for sure no code inside bme for proper hostmode VBUS supply mode23:25
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: how do you know thath23:26
jacekowskis/h//223:26
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: simple deduction - it's been Nokia's lagging of putting BME proper wrt hostmode that in the end lead to kill of AB-receptacle and OTG support23:27
jacekowskiand there are things we don't know23:28
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flailingmonkeyI'm certain that the analysis will be enlightening... and possibly depressing23:29
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* ShadowJK thought the driver rework due to omap usb errata was what killed hostmode23:30
DocScrutinizerhmm, maybe. I'm not sure I'm interested in it for now, though. It might invalidate my efforts on jrbme as Nokia could claim it's based on illegal RE of BME23:30
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: not exactly.23:31
ShadowJKI agree about not wanting to see any re bme code though23:32
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: Nokia switched to 1707 as twl4030 initially didn't know about charger detection. Then they had to implement full hostmode according to usb.cert specs, to get certification - they failed n that in time, so decided to rather discard the whole OTG thing23:32
ShadowJKyeah23:33
DocScrutinizers/hostmode/OTG23:33
DocScrutinizerso it's pretty clear bme is lacking one thing for sure: proper OTG support23:35
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ShadowJKAlthough I think it's fine if jacekowski discovers anything really important, if he describes/documents it in english for jrbme authors who write it in code from the description23:35
DocScrutinizerhell, bme doesn't even know how to deal correctly with charger_detect() and non-'standard' dedicated chargers23:36
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: ack23:36
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ShadowJKAt the time I think the correct way is to ignore those chargers :-)23:36
DocScrutinizerbut honestly, there's most likely nothing we really want to learn from bme23:37
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yeah, but BME doesn't do that - rather it renders musb/PHY in a undefined/illegal state and that causes battery *drain* _increased_ by ~60mA, when a non-standard (D+/- short) charger is attached23:38
DocScrutinizerI'm pretty sure we don't want to RE and re-implement this behaviour23:38
ShadowJKthe drain happens without bme too :-)23:39
DocScrutinizerand same holds true for almost all aspects of BME - at least that's my notion on it23:39
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ShadowJKand cpu gets locked to 50023:39
DocScrutinizeryeah, because USB tries to listen to a host that never will be around23:40
tybolltDocScrutinizer: why is the N900 charge outputing 1200 mA whereas most other microusb chargers seems to max out at 500 mA?23:40
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DocScrutinizerand BME isn't exactly causing that, but it doesn't do anything to cure it23:41
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DocScrutinizertybollt: maybe because N900 itself can fastcharge @1050mA max?23:41
* ShadowJK doesn't have any nonstandard chargers anymore :D23:42
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flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer: we need to put pressure on Nokians to come back with a definitive answer on those "legal" issues they weren't sure about23:42
DocScrutinizerI got a nice one with a A-USB receptacle and a LED to indicate current drawn23:42
ShadowJKwhat legal issues?23:42
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ShadowJKbme seems to select 950 charge current most of the time23:43
DocScrutinizerlegal issues regarding publishing a decent requirements spec for BME23:43
DocScrutinizerafk23:44
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Lateralu1What was the file you could write that would launch the application manager? .install? .launch?23:44
ShadowJKthe temperature (as reported by bq27200) really goes up at 1250, and it's not the battery heating up, the 2400mAh mugen should be able to absorb far greater current with no issues23:44
Lateralu1Anyone know where that is documented?23:44
flailingmonkey.install is what you are thinking of, i believe23:45
tybolltDocScrutinizer: care to elaborate on the fastcharge bit? This some new tech?23:45
ShadowJKtybollt, not really23:45
flailingmonkeyit would be like, yourapp.install23:46
tybolltsjk: why doesn't all mobiles have "fastcharge"?23:46
flailingmonkeythe fennec one is a good example.23:46
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Lateralu1flailingmonkey: I need the contents of the file -- I don't remember what it was supposed to conatin23:46
Lateralu1contain*23:46
wazd1Woo, I've finally updated Marina theme for PR 1.2 x) World is still safe :)23:47
ShadowJKtybollt: the new-ish bit is that USB consortium recently standardized the method by which to detect whether a device is connected to a dedicated charger and thus able to draw more power than the usb maximum of 500mA23:47
tybolltah olrite that makes sense23:47
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Lateralu1flailingmonkey: Found one.23:48
ShadowJKMany PCs will fry their usb if you try to draw 1200mA :)23:49
ShadowJK(and those PCs would have non-conforming usb implementations)23:50
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: correct behaviour would be: detect VBUS, try to confirm D+-short fastcharger, try to ENUM to host, if both fails then fall back to 500mA charging23:52
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DocScrutinizeralas N900 seems to get stuck in the "try ENUM" step and never falls thru to enabling 500mA mode23:54
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: bq24140&1707 do: detect VBUS, try to confirm D+/-short fastcharger (if ok ->500mA), fall thru to 100mA emergency charging.23:57
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DocScrutinizerwithout trying to enum to a host /which bq24150 can't do on its own) it's a sane scheme23:57
ShadowJKWell doing 500mA as fall back isn't right either.. though everyone else does it23:58
flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer: if the BME issues have anything to do with patents, Nokia would have no reason not to fully list what patents are involved23:58
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: if host doesn't answer to enum, then it's ok to step up to 50023:58
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ShadowJKoh? is that a new thing?23:59
DocScrutinizerflailingmonkey: ack. It's more like contractors *might* have IP in BME code23:59
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: if it's not answering to enum, then it's no host but a charger23:59
luke-jrflailingmonkey: it's not that simple23:59
DocScrutinizeror hub23:59

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