| lcuk2 | RST38h, you are meant to shake the balls up | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| alterego | Anyone have any experience with GLES? | 00:17 |
| alterego | Am I getting confused about what GLES 2 is? | 00:17 |
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| lcuk2 | alterego, hum? | 00:24 |
| wazd | http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/25/nokia-n9-or-something-in-the-wild-8-megapixel-camera-america/ | 00:24 |
| wazd | don't think it's n9 | 00:24 |
| alterego | lcuk2: well, does GLES 2 only do shaders? Or can I render with primitives too? | 00:25 |
| lcuk2 | alterego, gles is entirely shader based afaik | 00:25 |
| lcuk2 | wazd whats that | 00:26 |
| alterego | Oh, I thought I could use things like GL_TRIANGLES and stuff .. | 00:26 |
| wazd | lcuk2: well, since it's marked as c0 :) | 00:26 |
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| lcuk2 | alterego, i believe you can use the meshes (how else would you build things up) but the texturing and everything is done in shaders | 00:27 |
| alterego | Okay, well, I'll see how I get on. | 00:28 |
| lcuk2 | wazd, you read far too much into things, hadnt even looked at blurry pixels so closely | 00:28 |
| alterego | Managed to set the clear colour and get it to render :) | 00:28 |
| alterego | So I know I've got it initialized and working correcly now under the Qt SDK :D | 00:28 |
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| lcuk2 | +1 | 00:29 |
| pupnik_ | nice keyboard there wazd | 00:30 |
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| wazd | pupnik_: Well, it "looks" fine :) | 00:31 |
| pupnik_ | no escape key | 00:31 |
| wazd | pupnik_: can't tell how it types though :P | 00:31 |
| wazd | I wonder if there's a need to make these keys so wide | 00:32 |
| wazd | I've used e63 with tiny keys but with proper form - it worked flawlesly | 00:32 |
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| Corsac | pff, why is the updater only presenting details about the *first* update when doing “update all” | 00:37 |
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| asj_ | alterego: look up Qt/3D if you're going a lot of opengl stuff, it might be helpful | 00:37 |
| alterego | m'kay | 00:41 |
| alterego | asj_: thanx | 00:41 |
| wazd | damn, we have crazy heat in here | 00:42 |
| wazd | 26 C at night :( | 00:42 |
| wazd | Moscow moved to California or something :) | 00:43 |
| jacekowski | it's warm here as well | 00:43 |
| Corsac | is there a clean way to restart hildon desktop? | 00:44 |
| Corsac | (besides rebooting, and killing it :) | 00:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | killing it is clean | 00:46 |
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| Corsac | what can I kill safely? hildon-desktop, hildon-home? | 00:46 |
| MohammadAG51 | killall hildon-desktop | 00:47 |
| MohammadAG51 | hildon-home is for widgets only | 00:47 |
| MohammadAG51 | killing it repeatedly removes 3rd party widgets | 00:47 |
| Corsac | thanks | 00:48 |
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| Corsac | 17452 1202 user S 25132 10.2 0.0 /usr/sbin/browserd -s 17452 -n RTComMessagingServer | 00:53 |
| Corsac | that's a bit too much, sir! | 00:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | that's the conversations app | 00:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | Corsac: RSS does not mean anything | 00:54 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.selenic.com/smem/ | 00:54 |
| Corsac | sure but 10% mem is not rss | 00:54 |
| SpeedEvil | get taht | 00:54 |
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| alterego | silly shell account down time :( | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | sorry - what's that from? | 00:55 |
| Corsac | no package? | 00:55 |
| Corsac | SpeedEvil: top | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 00:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: no. | 00:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | Corsac: It's just a python script | 00:55 |
| Corsac | ok | 00:55 |
| alterego | I suppose I should learn about shaders then :( | 00:56 |
| * alterego starts to feel a bit daunted | 00:56 | |
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| alterego | Anyone know a good tutorial? | 00:56 |
| Macer | hm | 00:56 |
| SpeedEvil | If you can't install a python script, then to quote the godfather 'you are dead to me!'. | 00:56 |
| Macer | wonder if there is a way to play mkvs on this xbox360 | 00:57 |
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| MohammadAG51 | well, natively? I doubt it, stream it with TVersity or something :) | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | P.S. i'm not responsible for the extra heat from your PC | 00:58 |
| Corsac | SpeedEvil: http://paste.debian.net/78800/ | 00:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 01:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | my camera doesn't start unless I purge camera-ui and reinstall it | 01:00 |
| pyther | Can I access my home folder from the usb cable? | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: USS = unique set size - pages that that process has uniquely mapped. PSS = proportional set size - USS+ its share of all the libraries that have been mapped by all processes. | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil | pyther: not simply using mount as mass storage. | 01:02 |
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| luke-jr | pyther: in theory | 01:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | pyther: you can setup USB networking, and access via sshfs, or whatever. | 01:02 |
| pyther | If I install ssh server can I toggle the service on/off? | 01:03 |
| pyther | I need to copy my ssh public key to my server | 01:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | stop sshd / start sshd? | 01:03 |
| pyther | hmm that would work, does it startup by default? | 01:03 |
| lcuk2 | MohammadAG51, you have screwed up your install | 01:03 |
| lcuk2 | return your geek card | 01:03 |
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| Corsac | SpeedEvil: still browserd uses 10% of the ram | 01:04 |
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| Corsac | with nothing running but the widgets | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: yes. | 01:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | Corsac: err - rather no. | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm seeing 13550K PSS - which is somewhat below 10% | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | browserd does not run widgets | 01:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | browserd is - as I understand it the core of the browser, conversations app, 'bookmarks' app, and some other apps | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | It is not - quite - doing nothing - it's preloaded so they will launch faster. | 01:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | SpeedEvil, it says RTCOM, so the "10" is all from the convos app | 01:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk2, nooo :( | 01:08 |
| Corsac | which is not running atm | 01:08 |
| SpeedEvil | It's ready to run | 01:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | guess I'll have to reflash | 01:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | what he said | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | you can stop it. | 01:09 |
| Corsac | well, killing it will just restart it too, so I guess there's another way? | 01:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | dsmetool -k maybe | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | I _think_ killing browserd 3 times in three minutes will stop it relaunching, and not dog the device. | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | otherwise dsmetool maybe | 01:09 |
| lcuk2 | this isnt candyman | 01:10 |
| Corsac | (not that I don't like to have it running, it's just that the device seems less and less responsive, it lags during playback, etc. | 01:10 |
| Corsac | ok, maybe it was never intended to last 12 days | 01:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | i'd use watch -n 1 killall -9 browserd :P | 01:10 |
| Corsac | :)) | 01:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk2: Many of the services started reboot the device on a software watchdog if they die too often | 01:10 |
| lcuk2 | SpeedEvil, i know, but the way you described it is a bit :D | 01:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | how do i check what apps are using audio? | 01:11 |
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| Corsac | lsof maybe ? | 01:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | the cam app keeps saying audio in use by another application | 01:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | lsof for audio? | 01:11 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG51: stop pulseaudio | 01:11 |
| SpeedEvil | startpulseaudio | 01:11 |
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| Corsac | MohammadAG51: to check what uses /dev/snd | 01:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | oh | 01:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | SpeedEvil, sec | 01:11 |
| Corsac | but if only PA uses it, that won't help :/ | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | naah | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | that won't help at all | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: fail | 01:12 |
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| pyther | Will running sshd eat up more of the battery life? | 01:12 |
| lcuk2 | MohammadAG51, check the cam pp you keep deleting and reinstalling isnt actually originally still being run | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | pyther: no | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | pyther: unless used, it's completely idle | 01:12 |
| lcuk2 | do a battery popping reboot and see if normality returns | 01:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | SpeedEvil, it didn't help :) | 01:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk2, nope, it's been like this for 2 days | 01:12 |
| pyther | SpeedEvil: ah cool so then I don't need to worry about it :D | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ MohammadAG51 | 01:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | Ha! | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ MohammadAg | 01:13 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, mohammadag is special | 01:13 |
| lcuk2 | MohammadAG51, do your friends ever come to you with computer problems and whilst they are showing you the problem it magically vanishes? | 01:13 |
| Corsac | (always) | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | pyther: I have had - as a test - sshed into phone, asking its battery life every 5 mins - and had it last 4 days+ | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk2, sometimes xD | 01:14 |
| lcuk2 | MohammadAG51, then, give friend n900 and get them to explain problem to you! | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's called murphey's law first exponent | 01:14 |
| lcuk2 | Corsac, the real reason is because they think logically about the steps and dont shortcut whilst explaining | 01:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | I seriously need to fix this though :) | 01:14 |
| Corsac | lcuk2: no, that's because of my good vibrations | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: you broke it, like always | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, I'm not saying I didn't :D | 01:15 |
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| pupnik_ | cheers to nokia for making devices with nice keyboards | 01:26 |
| * DocScrutinizer yawns | 01:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | they messed up the matrix :-S | 01:26 |
| pupnik_ | what is 'the matrix'? | 01:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | tha magic thing that makes your kbd work | 01:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ctrl-shift-k/j can't be distunguished (or similar and even more combos), as they messed it up for no need | 01:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | n-key rollover problem | 01:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | they wasted row/col lines on NC, while the qualifier keys had urgently needed their own dedicated wires | 01:29 |
| Lantizia | Hey... how can I add a remote calendar on the N900? | 01:29 |
| Lantizia | According to http://maemo.nokia.com/features/calendar/ it is possible to sync with a work calendar | 01:30 |
| Lantizia | over the air | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | or in short: they missed to show me the prototype and get their OK from me :-P | 01:30 |
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| Corsac | Lantizia: yeah, over bluetooth with syncml | 01:32 |
| Lantizia | Corsac, Pants :( So no CalDAV support? | 01:32 |
| ShadowJK | does it work for mfe? | 01:32 |
| Corsac | Lantizia: no | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: huh? | 01:32 |
| Lantizia | Corsac, Double Pants :( :( Any app I can add for that? | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: sorry sir? | 01:32 |
| ShadowJK | mail for exchange | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: wtf has kbd matrix to do with mfe | 01:33 |
| Lantizia | Does CalDAV sound like exchange!? | 01:33 |
| ShadowJK | dockane, nothing. | 01:33 |
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| ShadowJK | sorry, DocScrutinizer: nothing. | 01:33 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 01:33 |
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| Corsac | Lantizia: not sure | 01:34 |
| Lantizia | Corsac, Hang on... on the example calendars I've got they all say their "Local"... does that mean if they're "Remote" it just means bluetooth? I don't even see an option for even adding a bluetooth calendar | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah, need offtime | 01:34 |
| Corsac | Lantizia: I've opened a brainstorm for that | 01:34 |
| Corsac | http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/caldav_support_for_maemo_calendar/ | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | my spam filters are too tight, to remove load off the main processing. So I missed the interleaving lines | 01:34 |
| ShadowJK | Shortly after I unboxed N900 I synced it with my previous phone Nokia E75 over bluetooth, and the calendar was imported iirc | 01:35 |
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| Corsac | Lantizia: it's not bluetooth calendar | 01:35 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, yeah that happens | 01:35 |
| Corsac | there's just one (and only one) calendar which can be sync'ed using syncML protocol | 01:35 |
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| Lantizia | Corsac, so if the Calendar ever did have a calendar listed as "Remote" (since it knows of "Local" ones)... it would be from where? Bluetooth / Exchange ? | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: quite understandable oops, as you got a highlight on my IRC. So I failed to notice this ping wasn't addressed to me | 01:36 |
| Corsac | Lantizia: there's no such thing as remote calendar | 01:36 |
| Lantizia | Corsac, then why list the example ones as Local! | 01:37 |
| Corsac | Lantizia: only types are local, synchronised, smart | 01:37 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, I'm honored | 01:37 |
| Corsac | and you only have one sync and one smart ones, afaik | 01:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I know to pick the gems | 01:37 |
| Corsac | all the calendars you can create are local | 01:37 |
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| Corsac | I'm not sure what soft will Meego use for calendaring/email, if it's the same thing as Meego Netbook, it's evolution which have support for all that | 01:38 |
| Corsac | but I'm not sure it'll be that | 01:38 |
| Lantizia | Is it me or has the Search function disappeared in Application Manager? | 01:38 |
| Corsac | I guess it'll either be modest+calendar, or another rewrite in Qt which will have again shitloads of bugs and will misses every useful function | 01:39 |
| Corsac | Lantizia: just browse and then type directly | 01:39 |
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| ShadowJK | there's some evolution components on N900 too | 01:40 |
| * Lantizia installs GPE Calendar | 01:40 | |
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| Arkenoi | mkv playback on n900 mplayer just sucks. don't know why :-( tried to watch new futurama season and it failed -- sound out of sync, numerous artifacts.. | 01:44 |
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| microlith | Arkenoi: mplayer from the repostiroy? | 01:49 |
| microlith | repository* | 01:49 |
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| Arkenoi | microlith, yep. are there any recommended options? | 01:50 |
| microlith | not sure, but I know that mplayer isn't using the DSP so it will suffer from various issues including audio lag | 01:51 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:51 |
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| microlith | moreso if your video is high quality and higher resolution than the N900 | 01:52 |
| Arkenoi | it is just 720x480 | 01:52 |
| Arkenoi | and n900 is 1,1GHz | 01:53 |
| microlith | how big is the file? | 01:53 |
| Arkenoi | ~300Mb, as one may expect for 20min video | 01:53 |
| Corsac | dotblank: grooveshark works pretty fine here too | 01:54 |
| microlith | Arkenoi: well I'm pretty sure that mplayer is probably complaining on the console about the CPU being too slow | 01:54 |
| Arkenoi | i can upload it to an http server so you may try it ;-) | 01:54 |
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| microlith | I haven't tried many command line options, and h.264 is a seriously cpu intensive codec | 01:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: I'm temped to kick you for this silly statement | 01:58 |
| Arkenoi | http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/Futurama_6_season_%5btfile.ru%5d/Futurama.%20Season%206.%20Episode%201.mkv | 01:59 |
| Arkenoi | just try it :-/ | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I FOR *SURE* will NOT try to overclock my 600MHz rated SoC to 1100MHz >:-O | 02:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I rather would try to operate 110V devices on 230V | 02:01 |
| Arkenoi | well, you may try it on 600MHz as well | 02:01 |
| Arkenoi | actually according to time stats it is just 3-5% in > 600MHz state | 02:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Or I may understand that as "try to kick me, see what it gets you" :-P | 02:01 |
| Lantizia | PA PING! http://milliways.chance.ru/~ark/images/playboy_telka.jpg | 02:02 |
| pupnik_ | Arkenoi: just transcode em | 02:02 |
| Lantizia | not work safe :) | 02:02 |
| Lantizia | blame Arkenoi :) | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF, complaining about artifacts when even memory is way beyond any sane timing | 02:02 |
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| pupnik_ | Lantizia: even beautiful nudes are offtopic | 02:03 |
| Lantizia | YOU LOOKED! :O | 02:03 |
| ShadowJK | Well, sound out of sync is what usually happens when there's insufficient processing power | 02:03 |
| Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer, everything other works, i had never seen any problems with other video | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: I don't argue with overclockers | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~overclocking | 02:04 |
| infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~this | 02:05 |
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| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, this is evil. Kill it! | 02:05 |
| Lantizia | Arkenoi, will try your file in a few moments | 02:05 |
| ptl | with no sauce? Who will want a tasteless fried CPU? | 02:05 |
| Lantizia | pretty sure this should play OK... I've played MKV like this before ok | 02:05 |
| ShadowJK | Arkenoi, the limit for MPlayer on N900 is about 512x384 h264, maybe less if there's AAC too | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | microlith gave the perfect answer | 02:05 |
| ptl | Arkenoi: have you tried VLC? | 02:06 |
| luke-jr | Arkenoi: my *desktop* can't play HD h.264 | 02:06 |
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| Arkenoi | ptl: is it already in the extras-devel? | 02:06 |
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| ptl | Arkenoi: nope | 02:06 |
| luke-jr | actually, it can, if I kill everything else and disable a bunch of post-processing... | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-06-26 00:51:30] <microlith> not sure, but I know that mplayer isn't using the DSP so it will suffer from various issues including audio lag - for the ones that need a line twice to read it once | 02:07 |
| luke-jr | and enable framedropping | 02:07 |
| ptl | Arkenoi: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=728146&postcount=231 (btw, it's optified) | 02:07 |
| luke-jr | but my desktop is 2.2 GHz | 02:07 |
| luke-jr | double that 1.1 OC'd crap | 02:07 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, post-processing is 99% stupid with h264 | 02:07 |
| ptl | CPU frequencies are not that comparable across platforms | 02:07 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: sure | 02:07 |
| luke-jr | ptl: not even within platforms | 02:08 |
| ShadowJK | The post-processing is built into h264, in-loop | 02:08 |
| luke-jr | but 2.2 is (almost) always much better than 1.1 | 02:08 |
| luke-jr | :) | 02:08 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: that's the post-processing I disable, I think | 02:08 |
| ShadowJK | ah, | 02:08 |
| ptl | yes, true. | 02:08 |
| ShadowJK | core2 is a few factors faster per clock than Cortex A8 :) | 02:08 |
| luke-jr | really? | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, use madia player and forget that shit | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | media even | 02:09 |
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| ShadowJK | luke-jr, yes | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | the DSP is there for a reason | 02:09 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: either Intel drastically improved after P4, or ARM sucks | 02:09 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, well, the DSP codec only does h264 baseline profile, and most files in the "wild" use h264 high profile :) | 02:10 |
| Arkenoi | luke-jr, both ;-) | 02:10 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, P4 was worse than P3 per-clock | 02:10 |
| ShadowJK | much worse | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: I know | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | my 800 MHz P3 used to beat out the 2 GHz P4 IIRC | 02:10 |
| ShadowJK | core2 is just brutal per clock when you compare to P4 | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | I credit AMD with Intel making a comeback at all | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | Intel always had the resources, they just got lazy | 02:11 |
| haltdef | ditched p4 entirely and based the core arch on p3 didn't they | 02:11 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 02:12 |
| luke-jr | I really wish I could run Intel procs native thouhg | 02:12 |
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| luke-jr | that is, without the x86 emulation layer | 02:12 |
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| ShadowJK | P3 was never dead, it came back as P-M, and then P-M evolved into core and core2 | 02:12 |
| luke-jr | but I suppose that layer might include the MMU and such necessary things... | 02:12 |
| ShadowJK | Well.. compilers probably know what instructions are emulated and which ones aren't ;) | 02:13 |
| luke-jr | still, would be nice to replace it with a simpler instruction set | 02:13 |
| ShadowJK | ya | 02:13 |
| luke-jr | ShadowJK: IIRC, 100% of x86 is emulated on the latest Intel designs | 02:13 |
| Kegetys | you could reverse-engineer the bytecode and write your own ;) | 02:13 |
| luke-jr | Kegetys: I wouldn't know where to begin doing that | 02:13 |
| Corsac | yeah, internally they are just RISC | 02:13 |
| Corsac | risc is good | 02:13 |
| Corsac | risc is beautiful | 02:13 |
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| Kegetys | microcode, not bytecode | 02:13 |
| luke-jr | Corsac: any idea if it's practical to run Linux natively on the RISC core? | 02:13 |
| Arkenoi | why intel did not open it? | 02:14 |
| luke-jr | microcode is just a kind of bytecode | 02:14 |
| Corsac | luke-jr: it's not available for anyone, asfaik | 02:14 |
| Corsac | s/as/a/ | 02:15 |
| infobot | Corsac meant: luke-jr: it's not available for anyone, afaik | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | Corsac: ? | 02:15 |
| Corsac | luke-jr: the risc is only exposed internally | 02:15 |
| Arkenoi | actually most overdesigned CISC CPUs run RISC-like microcode inside | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | Corsac: with Intel's microcode, yes | 02:15 |
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| Arkenoi | ibm Z and even ancient VAX did it | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | Corsac: what if you uploaded a trivial microcode that ignored that limitation? | 02:15 |
| arachnist | luke-jr: x86 was emulated on ibm chips ever since pentiums and p2's | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | what are you dudes talking about?? :-o | 02:15 |
| Corsac | luke-jr: you can't | 02:15 |
| arachnist | s/ibm/intel/ | 02:15 |
| infobot | arachnist meant: luke-jr: x86 was emulated on intel chips ever since pentiums and p2's | 02:15 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, we never even had linux running natively on the Transmeta core.. and that was a much more radical design than intel | 02:15 |
| Corsac | luke-jr: very few people in the world even know how the microcode is protected | 02:16 |
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| luke-jr | Corsac: you can't just upload arbitrary microcode? O.o | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: There is an angry bear in there. | 02:16 |
| Corsac | luke-jr: no | 02:16 |
| luke-jr | :( | 02:16 |
| luke-jr | lame | 02:16 |
| Corsac | luke-jr: it's encrypted and protected | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | turning X86 into ARM by patching the microcode patch area? | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | or what? | 02:16 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, modern CPUs translate the x86 instruction set into their own internal instruction set, luke wants to run linux on the internal instruction set | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Corsac: And possibly more important - utterly undocumented | 02:16 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: nah, just want to expose the native instruction set | 02:16 |
| Corsac | luke-jr: security-wise, it's not a bad idea though :) | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can't do that | 02:17 |
| Corsac | SpeedEvil: yes, I mean even at intel very few people know about this | 02:17 |
| luke-jr | why waste cycles on emulation? :) | 02:17 |
| Lantizia | Arkenoi, for me that MKV file isn't even recognized as supported by the Media Player... and mplayer-cli just gives a black screen | 02:17 |
| luke-jr | how often do we emulate on an emulator? :P | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Doing that would basically mean you would need to make a new code generation engine and complete distribution for each processor. | 02:17 |
| Kegetys | most likely all different cpu models also have their own internal instructions or at least variations to it, you'd need to reverse-engineer all of them and make special code for every cpu | 02:17 |
| ShadowJK | It's not wasted cycles really :-) | 02:17 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: sweet | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: SpeedEvil: and it's SMALL | 02:18 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: I'm all for a diverse CPU ecosystem | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | a fsckng small patch area to patch the rom microcode | 02:18 |
| * SpeedEvil throws z80s and 8031s at luke-jr. | 02:18 | |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I'm unsure. | 02:18 |
| ShadowJK | Unless you use a command that's entirely made up of microcode, in which case there's no "native" op anyway | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: RAM can be faster than ROM | 02:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | And given constrained busses, yuou probably don't want to run microcode programs anyway | 02:19 |
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| * SpeedEvil sighs at his internet falling over again. | 02:19 | |
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| luke-jr | moo | 02:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | oow | 02:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's a "hardwired" set of microinstructions inside X86 core, that determines how to process one machine opcode from external RAM. And there's a small fast ram patch area to 'overload" particular microcode sniplets | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | the microcode most probably is VLIW | 02:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | sure | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | so no way to expose the microcode to the RAM interface so the opcode pipe and whatnot would read VLIW microcode instead of generic X86 opcode from RAM | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure how large the patch area is, in normal functionality | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/opcode pipe/instruction lookahead and decode engine/ | 02:24 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: so no way to expose the microcode to the RAM interface so the instruction lookahead and decode engine and whatnot would read VLIW microcode instead of generic X86 opcode from RAM | 02:24 |
| SpeedEvil | If it implements most instructions from uops, then in principle, it could be quite interesting. | 02:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | For example, there may be no microcode 'ROM' - it may be all loaded from a slow internal ROM to fast RAM in the microcode area. | 02:25 |
| SpeedEvil | And you can replace this RAM. | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | check your firmware drawer in your /boot or whatever, on you 86-box. There's a file called microcode.bin or whatever. It's probably fullsize of the patch ram area | 02:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I agree it *might* be interesting *if* you knew about the particular meaning down to the gate a bit in a VLIW controls. Ack for bootloading from rom to patch ram though | 02:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | yeah | 02:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | And this of course neglects the rather large fact that given the complete spec of the microcode, how to code it, and keys to upload the signed file - it would be man-decades of work probbaly. | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | /usr/src/linux-2.6.31.5-0.1/arch/x86/kernel/microcode_intel.c | 02:32 |
| arachnist | i wonder how close to the alpha-axp were the athlon-xp cpus | 02:34 |
| arachnist | at least when ommiting the x86 translation "layer" | 02:34 |
| arachnist | and lack of several registers | 02:34 |
| ssvb | luke-jr: x86 instruction set also works as some kind of code compression (instructions have variable length), so it could be a good thing overall | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | sudo get_me_a_cheezburger | 02:37 |
| ShadowJK | instruction cache | 02:37 |
| ssvb | ARM uses an alternative thumb/thumb2 instructions encoding for the purpose of reducing code size, it really helps | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Is thumb actually used on - say - the n900? | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | with gcc | 02:39 |
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| ssvb | ShadowJK: right, but but cache sizes are definitely not infinite and not free (increase chip cost and power consumption) | 02:40 |
| ShadowJK | ssvb, because they are not infinite, smaller code size becomes faster | 02:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's the idea of CISC | 02:41 |
| ssvb | btw, my core2 processor has 4x higher clock frequency than N900, and 16x bigger L2 cache | 02:42 |
| ssvb | guess who is the winner? | 02:42 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 02:43 |
| ShadowJK | ssvb, how long does it run on 3.7Wh battery? :) | 02:43 |
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| ssvb | well, the point is that pure CPU speed is not the only contributing factor to overall performance, cache sizes and memory bandwidth also play a huge role | 02:44 |
| ssvb | especially if the frequently accessed data set of some application fully fits into the cache for one processor, but does not for the other one | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | In some cases, this can be silly. | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | I implemented a _stupid_ little 'language' that just understood operations involved in some sorts of crypto. | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | - shifts, adds, xor, ... | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | It was interpreted, yet significantly faster than raw machine code - simply as it fitted in the small L1 cache. | 02:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | Along with all the working set of the data. | 02:48 |
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| pwnguin | it just seems funny that google does all this crazy optimizations for performance, like dalvik and suspend multitasking when maemo seems to get by on the same hardware without it | 02:50 |
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| ssvb | SpeedEvil: regarding thumb on n900, it has some nasty hardware bugs and is not used | 02:51 |
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| ssvb | cortex-a8 is the first processor to introduce thumb2 support, so it's not very surprising | 02:51 |
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| ssvb | and AFAIK omap3 was the first SoC to use it and has an early revision of cortex-a8 | 02:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | ssvb: ah | 02:53 |
| ssvb | hopefully thumb2 has a bright future in the newer ARM processors such as cortex-a9, and the compilers will also improve over time | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | pwnguin: Do androids dream of electric shee, or suffer audio skips when installing programs? | 02:54 |
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| MohammadAG51 | symbian doesn't stutter when installing apps | 02:54 |
| MohammadAG51 | neither does the iPhone | 02:54 |
| ShadowJK | symbian isn't usable when installing apps... | 02:55 |
| ShadowJK | (IME) | 02:55 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 02:55 | |
| MohammadAG51 | ShadowJK, tbh it is usuable | 02:56 |
| MohammadAG51 | -a | 02:56 |
| MohammadAG51 | ShadowJK, but it closes all apps in the bg :P | 02:56 |
| ShadowJK | without programs running what use is it.. | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | gconftool --dump /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/GPRS/gprs_rx_bytes | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | wjhat is the proper form of this command? | 02:57 |
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| pwnguin | SpeedEvil: from what i hear, android isn't very skippy period | 02:58 |
| * pwnguin wonders if the old renice standby would fix audio skips much | 02:59 | |
| SpeedEvil | I tried it - with pulseaudio na dthe media player - and diddn't get anywhere | 03:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | shouldn't the stutter have been fixed? | 03:01 |
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| MohammadAG51 | i remember someone mentioned a bug report the last couple of days | 03:01 |
| ShadowJK | fixed is relative | 03:01 |
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| MohammadAG51 | ShadowJK, we just need the new package to test how "relative" the fix is :P | 03:02 |
| ShadowJK | The skipping that happens when playing from mmc/sd but does not happen when playing internet streams, with the assumption there's adequate internet bandwidth available, should be fixable with relative ease | 03:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | how? | 03:03 |
| SpeedEvil | cache the stream | 03:03 |
| ShadowJK | Well the mafw crap needs to cache more of the input file :-) | 03:03 |
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| ShadowJK | Say, 5-10 seconds worth. | 03:04 |
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| MohammadAG51 | meh, the fixed package was pulseaudio | 03:05 |
| ShadowJK | such skipping issues would also affect internet streams | 03:06 |
| ShadowJK | and I've rarely had internet streams skip due to other reasons than network connectivity | 03:06 |
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| * SpeedEvil demands flash 12 for n900. | 03:16 | |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 03:16 | |
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| microlith | flash 12? | 03:19 |
| microlith | from the future! | 03:19 |
| * MohammadAG51 repacks flash 9 as flash 12 and hands it to SpeedEvil | 03:21 | |
| * nextime should be happy with just a decent web browser for windows mobile... | 03:21 | |
| * ptl repacks gnash for ARMEL as flash 12 and hands it to SpeedEvil | 03:21 | |
| * SpeedEvil wonders about gnash | 03:22 | |
| Muelli | swfdec is the new gnash.. no..? | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | apt-get install omweather-weather-com-stations-db pomodoro qtwol recovery-tools timeshop webradio-superfly extcalllog icedtea6 impuzzle kanatest mafw-gst-subtitles-applet mafw-lastfm mstatus-applet ncalc omweather-gismeteo-ru-stations-db portabase sib syncevolution-frontend tipqalc ubahn arabic-l10n classicprint led-pattern-editor penpen pypianobar raemote symfonie threetictac ask-ziggy glogarchive hexen2 osso-applet-screencalibration-fix pianobar pyt | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | argh | 03:22 |
| Muelli | well. dead too, but still :P | 03:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: you feel ok? | 03:25 |
| SpeedEvil | I just screw up pasting occasionally | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | :-# | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | s/ccasionally/often/ | 03:26 |
| infobot | SpeedEvil meant: I just screw up pasting ooften | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | :D | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I am not worried then | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Just installing the top 40 karmad apps in testing | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | (with karma under 10) | 03:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/packageqalist - this is a simple script using wget to eat the QA queue, and sort by karma, for the apps you have not thumbed. | 03:31 |
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| tripzero | so i uploaded my pub key but i can't upload :( | 03:44 |
| tripzero | "Permission denied (publickey)." | 03:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | give it 15 mins or so | 03:44 |
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| ptl | polling sucks! | 03:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: will this script collapse into a black hole on doing its job, when you upload it to extras-testing and it gets under the fist ten? | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | first* | 03:57 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I should work out how to upload stuff. | 04:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | simple, package it, make a source package, upload it | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't have scratchbo installed. | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Isn't that required? | 04:02 |
| pigeon | does anyone use shortcutd with the proxmity sensor? | 04:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | too unstable tbh | 04:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | SpeedEvil, it is, unless you're epic at making all files manually | 04:03 |
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| luke-jr | MohammadAG51: if it was simple, you wouldn't need to be so epic | 04:10 |
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| MohammadAG51 | luke-jr, it's simple, when you have scripts that do it for you | 04:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.public/joerg900.10024 blaaeerrrrghh | 04:28 |
| ech0Asus | what it do? | 04:29 |
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| dotblank | just got playlist support added | 04:36 |
| dotblank | W00t! | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | wut? | 04:37 |
| dotblank | grooveshark app | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 04:37 |
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| konfoo | dotblank: built in ripper? ;) | 04:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | I want something that takes a FM radio and a stream URL, and can mix between them depending on signal strength. | 04:49 |
| SpeedEvil | (also implies a 30s - say - dealy on the FM | 04:50 |
| konfoo | they will never be synchronized | 04:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | Of course not - but you can do that | 04:51 |
| konfoo | too much pain and effort | 04:51 |
| konfoo | what's the real-world use case, besides pure novelty? | 04:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Listening to music without fading in areas of bad FM reception, while minimising transferred data which is often expensive | 04:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fail! | 04:54 |
| konfoo | eh no benefit | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'll always need to download the stream data, otherwise you'll miss it the moment you need it | 04:54 |
| konfoo | exactly | 04:54 |
| konfoo | good luck managing those buffers | 04:55 |
| konfoo | sliding window hell | 04:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm assuming that the stream has some seconds delay over FM - so you can kick off the stream when FM fades, and get a couple of seconds of the past | 04:55 |
| konfoo | and we haven't even addressed users that flip channels | 04:55 |
| konfoo | sometimes fm has a larger delay over net broadcast.. | 04:56 |
| konfoo | depends on the country and network | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | indeed | 04:56 |
| konfoo | and how pray tell will you deal with inserted ads | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'll need a 60s buffer for both, and that kinda makes it, ummm strange? | 04:56 |
| konfoo | next topic | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | and how will you fall forward to FM then? | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably it's not completely impossible, but... | 04:59 |
| konfoo | one of my old bosses holds the patents on FMx which is basically FM2 | 05:00 |
| konfoo | from dolby/nbc labs | 05:00 |
| konfoo | this was a frequent point of discussion | 05:00 |
| konfoo | 'improving fm' | 05:00 |
| konfoo | discussion on bonded interfaces always led to fail | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, that CA-146A adapter is a beast, no revamp of uUSB plug >:-( | 05:00 |
| konfoo | cause in mobile devices, the only principle that works, is KISS | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | not that I had expected anything any better than that | 05:01 |
| konfoo | well to be specific, mobile *transmission* | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | konfoo: MIMO might work, though not exactly KISS | 05:02 |
| konfoo | mimo type transmission works with the right modulation and transport | 05:03 |
| konfoo | i.e. dvb-h | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | you need the right equipment on PHY layer | 05:03 |
| konfoo | saying let's use an ip stream with a leaky bucket and this here non-deterministic fm broadcast... hell to the no | 05:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol | 05:03 |
| * DocScrutinizer away hoping for some nice movie in TV | 05:04 | |
| konfoo | i spent 15 years writing data transmitters for dvb/atsc/ku/ip/whateverelseyouwanttoaddinhere, i have that pat down | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | dvb-t | 05:04 |
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| konfoo | we tried all those crazy ideas, and that's all they amounted to | 05:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | konfoo: In my case - no ads. | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | konfoo: where you used to work? | 05:05 |
| SpeedEvil | konfoo: I tend to listen to BBC mainly. | 05:05 |
| konfoo | doc: NDS, part of news corp | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, never heard. nevermind | 05:06 |
| konfoo | doc: they make the security layer for bskyb, directv, etc | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah | 05:06 |
| konfoo | 25+ million smartcards installed worldwide | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | yesyes | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I guess you got your personal whitecard meanwhile :-P | 05:07 |
| konfoo | speed: same here.. i havent noticed ads as being a problem.. but then again local AM in the usa is my alternative which breaks for 15 minutes of ads ;) | 05:07 |
| konfoo | you mean goldcard | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean wildcard | 05:08 |
| konfoo | the names have been changed, etc. | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah and new version of *crypt each other 6 months | 05:09 |
| konfoo | you are mistaking our stellar product with that of cheaper competitors | 05:09 |
| * konfoo nods sagely | 05:09 | |
| konfoo | oh heres a great one | 05:11 |
| konfoo | i got to one-up some iphones in a demo the other day | 05:11 |
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| konfoo | streaming over 3g.. 'feel free to hit this url with your phones' 'oh look the n900 can decode that, but your iphones cannot. so sorry' | 05:12 |
| konfoo | it was a small victory | 05:12 |
| dotblank | whoa... I can add 20 mins of music to the playlist | 05:13 |
| dotblank | possibly more | 05:13 |
| konfoo | poor iphone strictly obeys the baseline h264 4.1 flag, even if the macroblocking/bitrate/8x8/cabac/etc is configured to not make use of 4.1 features | 05:13 |
| dotblank | without really slowing the device down | 05:13 |
| dotblank | all in memory | 05:13 |
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| * SpeedEvil sighs at security/DRM. | 05:16 | |
| SpeedEvil | I want to be able to play media that I pay for on devices of my choice. | 05:16 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 05:16 |
| Lantizia | You pay for media? Oh dear :) | 05:19 |
| dotblank | intsall my app :) | 05:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Lantizia: Directly or indirectly through ads. | 05:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I refuse to use media that's drm crippled in whatever form. I even gave back CD's which weren't really CD-Audio according to <color>-book | 05:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and honestly the quality of all that mp3-download shit and youtube/whatyanameit-video is so abysmal, I better be blind and deaf rather than trying to enjoy such crap. 20 years ago my turntable incl level and system was ~2000EUR (4000DM) | 05:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/level/pick-up arm | 05:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/system/moving-coil system | 05:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | meh - no cpan | 05:34 |
| SpeedEvil | By DRMd stuff - I primarily mean streaming 'quality' media. | 05:35 |
| * SpeedEvil is currently trying to install get_iplayer on the phone | 05:35 | |
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| Termana | hey hey | 05:35 |
| ech0Asus | sup | 05:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | cpan? | 05:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | the perl configurator thingy | 05:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mhm | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thought I missed a better alternative for moving coil | 05:47 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 05:47 |
| SpeedEvil | No :) | 05:47 |
| SpeedEvil | laser! | 05:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | won't fly. dust is a nightmare with laser | 05:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I know | 05:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | The C inspired me direction "capacitive" | 05:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | though you also could build a optomechanical system | 05:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | how would I generate a (possibly input) event to reset the screen dimming timer? any dbus or other msg or whatever? | 05:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn, this older one N900 now *always* needs a re-plugin to charger to detect it | 06:04 |
| IceWewe | Isn't it just lovely that Nokia is ceasing development on Maemo 5 and opting to not port MeeGo to the N900? | 06:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes it is. Where you've been when we had the party to celebrate it? | 06:04 |
| IceWewe | Gotta love they're dedication to a phone that's been out for all of 8 months | 06:04 |
| IceWewe | I'm really here to find out if there's anything newer/better than Diablo for my N800... | 06:05 |
| IceWewe | I avoided the N900 like the plague and am *so* happy I did | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | fine | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | you're finished with that now? | 06:05 |
| IceWewe | Mer is dead, apparently. The MeeGo wiki for the N8x0 doesn't state that they have a working port... | 06:06 |
| IceWewe | As far as I know the reason Maemo 5 never made it to the N8x0 series was due to the fact that the ARM chip is too old | 06:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meego on N810 is working afaik | 06:06 |
| IceWewe | mmmh? really? link? | 06:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no newer maemo for N8x0 than fremantle. So please /join #meego with your questions | 06:07 |
| IceWewe | I thought freemantle was N900 only... | 06:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | err sorry, diablo of course | 06:07 |
| IceWewe | :( | 06:07 |
| IceWewe | okay, I'll ask in meego. | 06:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ask stskeeps | 06:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though I think he's a week off for holiday | 06:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe #meego-arm is the chan for you | 06:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | gonna have to hack my IRC clients to have a small horzontal sub window like the topic one, for join/quit/system msgs (2..4 lines max) | 06:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: where's my python-enabled xchat??? | 06:11 |
| Macer | hm | 06:13 |
| Macer | anybody notice the vkb in telepathy/conversation doesnt use enter correctly? | 06:14 |
| Macer | :) | 06:14 |
| Macer | hitting enter sends cr to the vkb | 06:14 |
| Macer | instead of closing it and sending the msg | 06:14 |
| Macer | for im | 06:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | to answer my own question about undimming the screen: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_tklock_mode_change string:"unlocked" | 06:34 |
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| type_t | what is that why is /com/nokia is that some kernel thing / there are no Directories with that name? hello. | 06:37 |
| SpeedEvil | it's dbus | 06:37 |
| type_t | why the dotted notation com.nokia.mce .. seen that in BSD com.apple or mac | 06:38 |
| SpeedEvil | it's dbus | 06:39 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/dbus/api/ | 06:39 |
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| type_t | hum ok code me a low-level impementation of iphone app that scratches like DJ scratch when rubbing the touchscreen. | 06:47 |
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| type_t | is dbus related to kernel modules. what comes first a module or a dbus lowlevel. or both . one supports the other or. what api are modules compiled with . | 07:00 |
| SpeedEvil | dbus is application level | 07:01 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Bus | 07:01 |
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| dotblank | lol what is this? | 07:02 |
| dotblank | http://store.ovi.com/content/42450?clickSource=browse&contentArea=applications#/content/42450/reviews | 07:02 |
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| dotblank | wow | 07:09 |
| dotblank | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/06/nokia-to-use-meego-linux-and-not-symbian-for-flagship-phones.ars | 07:09 |
| dotblank | How did I miss this ars article | 07:10 |
| mortini | because it came out 13 hours ago? | 07:10 |
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| mortini | dotblank: you're shocked at this? | 07:11 |
| dotblank | hey im usually faster then that | 07:11 |
| mortini | dotblank: and, stupid apps aren't bad, really. they add to overall app count. and, plenty of android/iphone apps are just as stupid. | 07:12 |
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| type_t | i think namespace of dbus naming should be irc.freenode.maemo so /net/freenode/maemo.. | 07:44 |
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| mortini | make it happen! | 07:46 |
| type_t | well yes we can . say the obaminators. | 07:48 |
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| hal9k2010 | hello all | 08:18 |
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| hal9k2010 | i want to buy a nokia n800 anybody can help me with some tips to do a good purchase ? | 08:24 |
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| Trizt | hal9k2010; did you try ebay? | 08:41 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 08:54 |
| RST38h | hello zap | 08:54 |
| zap_ | moooorning :) | 08:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | blub | 08:54 |
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| hal9k2010 | i am looking to some alternatives @ ebay | 09:02 |
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| hal9k2010 | my wife use a ipod touch but i like the n800 but dont know what to spect with the n800 | 09:04 |
| hal9k2010 | media playback , web browsing | 09:04 |
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| Trizt | something like that | 09:05 |
| hal9k2010 | do you have one ? | 09:06 |
| Trizt | no, I have a n900 | 09:06 |
| hal9k2010 | i supouse web exp shoud be better cause of the flash ... right ? | 09:06 |
| Trizt | it could, depends on where you surf and the n900 just has version 9, so there are flash sites that won't work in it too | 09:07 |
| hal9k2010 | i see | 09:07 |
| Trizt | but as I understand there should be some sort of flash player for the n800 and skype | 09:08 |
| hal9k2010 | n900 use maemo 2008 ? | 09:08 |
| Trizt | n900 uses maemo 5 | 09:08 |
| hal9k2010 | ok | 09:09 |
| hal9k2010 | n900 is a real phone... no only a internet table t | 09:09 |
| hal9k2010 | right ? | 09:09 |
| Trizt | yes, it's a phone too | 09:09 |
| hal9k2010 | ok | 09:09 |
| hal9k2010 | ok thanks for the help... i guess i am back to ebay and see if i buy one tonite :) | 09:10 |
| hal9k2010 | have a good one | 09:10 |
| Trizt | you too | 09:11 |
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| LuciusMare | Hi, is there available source for the media player in fremantle? | 09:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nope, afaik | 10:34 |
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| nguyenchau | i have somethings with my ukeyboard | 10:35 |
| nguyenchau | im from viet nam | 10:35 |
| nguyenchau | can anyone help me pls | 10:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~ask | 10:42 |
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| infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. | 10:42 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:58 |
| Corsac | hey Jaffa | 10:58 |
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| Jaffa | barisione: ping | 11:00 |
| solrize | so it looks like my cheap azz tmobile prepaid voice-only plan lets me send picture messages. can i send binary files that way too, or does it go through jpeg munging in the network? | 11:04 |
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| MohammadAG51 | SpeedEvil, ping? | 11:24 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG51, \o/ | 11:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | hi | 11:42 |
| ZogG | howdy | 11:44 |
| alterego | aloha | 11:45 |
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| MohammadAG51 | alterego, bored? | 11:55 |
| alterego | Are you going to make me install Perl again? :P | 11:56 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, nah, just program that yes/no dialog and make a maemo-ask-dialog binary | 11:56 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG51: that DIvil was requesting? | 11:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, yes, NAO | 11:57 |
| alterego | what's that command they use on gnome? | 11:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, err? | 11:58 |
| alterego | ang on .. | 11:58 |
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| alterego | zenity, that's it | 12:01 |
| ZogG | we have to make Maemo Community license so Nokia can't use our programs =))) | 12:01 |
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| ZogG | yours * | 12:02 |
| ZogG | as i'm not dev. i'm leech and loser ) | 12:02 |
| alterego | ZogG I'd prefer it if you put a commercial clause in that just says you profit you pay me :) | 12:02 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: zenity, already in extras I believe. | 12:03 |
| ZogG | alterego, how much for an hour, you slutty whore | 12:03 |
| ZogG | alterego, but if your service is not worth it i wouldn't pay a penny | 12:04 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: command line program that shows dialogs and stuff. :) | 12:04 |
| alterego | I was 50 pound an hour when I was employed :) | 12:04 |
| ZogG | alterego how much is your profit after pimp taxes? | 12:05 |
| vldcnst | haha | 12:05 |
| alterego | Heh, I'd have to ask my dealer | 12:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, you could write a better app, I want a working prototype in 10 minutes | 12:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | C only please | 12:06 |
| alterego | Heh, what's wrong with zenity? | 12:06 |
| alterego | And, you've not given me any meaningful specs :p | 12:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, depending on it for one theme is an overkill | 12:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, dialog with yes/no button, looks hildony, returns useful exit code | 12:07 |
| ZogG | alterego i want your programs for maemo in pure asm from now on | 12:07 |
| alterego | zenity size: 122 | 12:08 |
| alterego | You think that's overkill? Or are you asking me to write a binary blob people can just drop into their theme packages? | 12:08 |
| ZogG | yes, we want a blob | 12:09 |
| ZogG | blobs are cool =) | 12:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, nope, I' suggest a binary for maemo, put it on gitorious, we can have it in PR1. | 12:10 |
| alterego | Seriously, zenity, it should be installed by default imo | 12:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | 3 | 12:10 |
| ZogG | MohammadAG51 what are working on? | 12:10 |
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| MohammadAG51 | ZogG, getting rid of alterego's boredom i guess | 12:11 |
| ZogG | yeah, but what program? | 12:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | not for me | 12:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | check D-vil's thread | 12:11 |
| alterego | zenity allows you to make all sorts of dialogs to, calendar dialoga, ext entry dialogs, file selector, progress, list all sorts | 12:12 |
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| alterego | Though, zenity file and calendar dialogs are not touch optimized | 12:13 |
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| MohammadAG51 | alterego, hmm, zenity looks cool tbh | 12:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, how do I check exit codes? :) | 12:14 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: exit code is in $? | 12:15 |
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| alterego | variable | 12:15 |
| alterego | some invokations output data via stdout too. | 12:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, exit code as in what zenity returns | 12:15 |
| alterego | Maybe porting zenity to maemo properly, or writing a Qt replacement for Maemo/MeeGo would be good though. Touch optimized. | 12:16 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG51: zenity --question "Are you well?"; echo $? | 12:17 |
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| alterego | 0 means yes, 1 means no | 12:17 |
| alterego | normal UNIX style exit codes. | 12:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | I know, I just don't know how to read those codes :P | 12:18 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, got easy-debian installed? | 12:18 |
| alterego | Nope | 12:19 |
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| alterego | What codes? | 12:19 |
| alterego | Would you like me to write you a little example script? | 12:19 |
| alterego | Which uses the return value meaningfully? | 12:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | GTK2_RC_FILES='/usr/share/themes/MurrinaNightOrange/gtk-2.0/gtkrc' zenity --file-selection /root alterego try it :) | 12:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | the defualt hildon theme is so oversized | 12:21 |
| alterego | So you want to use the file selector? | 12:21 |
| alterego | Well, anything that outputs to the screen ... | 12:22 |
| alterego | result=$(zenity --file-selection) | 12:22 |
| alterego | cancelled=$? | 12:22 |
| h0n3st | how can i change ip address of a connection and set default gw and dns server manually in my n900/maemo ? i did not find ifconfig and such this tool | 12:23 |
| alterego | h0n3st: ifconfig is accessible as root | 12:24 |
| alterego | gateway you use 'route' | 12:24 |
| alterego | and dns well, you can edit /etc/resolv.conf | 12:24 |
| h0n3st | alterego, i know it in my linux box. now i have access to root but i do not how | 12:25 |
| alterego | h0n3st: it's Linux, Maemo is Linux, if you can do it on a Linux machine, you can do it on Maemo | 12:26 |
| alterego | It's the same. you just need to be root on the N900 | 12:26 |
| h0n3st | alterego, what is passwd of root in maemo? | 12:27 |
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| h0n3st | i installed xterm on and can access shell but can not su to root | 12:27 |
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| nidO | you need to install rootsh | 12:27 |
| nidO | by default, root account's disabled | 12:27 |
| alterego | h0n3st: you need to use gainroot, or do what I did and install openssh which allows you to set the root passwd | 12:27 |
| alterego | ~gainroot | 12:27 |
| * MohammadAG51 ponders if he should enable sudo su | 12:27 | |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: I use ssh for root access even locally for security reasons. | 12:28 |
| h0n3st | nidO, ooom. tnx nidO tnx alterego | 12:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, lol | 12:28 |
| alterego | As soo as you start pissing with sudo gainroot you open anyone who's familiar with the device to screw it up :) | 12:28 |
| alterego | Admittedly, you don't actually even need root to screw the device cup, as someone found out by editing their ~/.profile? pahahah | 12:29 |
| nidO | which they can happily do without root access anyway | 12:29 |
| nidO | or just install rootsh themselves | 12:29 |
| alterego | Yes, good point, that did not occur to me :) | 12:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | i use scp locally xD | 12:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | to show progress | 12:29 |
| alterego | Heh | 12:29 |
| alterego | I'm currently trying to wrap my head around GLES 2 and shaders :/ | 12:31 |
| vldcnst | ~mohasnack | 12:31 |
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| Trizt | whats with all the '#' in the ~/.profiled/custom.ini ? | 12:35 |
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| alterego | Trizt: '#' denotes a comment | 12:36 |
| alterego | Free form text that is ignored by the past | 12:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | // in C | 12:36 |
| alterego | And by past we all know I meant parser .. | 12:37 |
| * alterego is still not awake | 12:37 | |
| Trizt | it's just that my ~/.profiled/custom.ini seems to have 3000+ # in a row | 12:40 |
| alterego | In a row or in a column? | 12:40 |
| alterego | Some people use '#####################' ... To separate sections | 12:40 |
| alterego | Oh, I see, that massive block at the bottom | 12:43 |
| alterego | Trizt: I'd imagine in that case it is to keep the file at exactly 4096 bytes | 12:44 |
| alterego | Otherwise known as 4k | 12:44 |
| Trizt | yes, but for what use? | 12:45 |
| alterego | This is probably because some low level part needs to have access to the file, prior to the operating system booting and that filesystem being mounted | 12:45 |
| alterego | But I can't tell you who or why :) | 12:46 |
| alterego | reset | 12:46 |
| * alterego console fail | 12:46 | |
| Trizt | you shouldn't cat binary files | 12:47 |
| alterego | Why not? | 12:48 |
| alterego | I cat binary files all the time. | 12:48 |
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| alterego | Nothing wrong with using cat on binaries, just don't output it to the console. | 12:48 |
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| Trizt | sorry for not being specific | 12:50 |
| alterego | Or being in context, I'm not sure what you were getting at with that statement :P | 12:50 |
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| alterego | Ah, I think I understand all this shader business now .. | 12:53 |
| alterego | Kind of makes sense .. | 12:53 |
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| Trizt | to something completely different, I have managed to damage one of my keyboards keys surface, now instead of being black, it's illuminating the world like a lamp :( | 12:54 |
| alterego | Aww | 12:55 |
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| alterego | Woop! I managed to display my first every triangle in OpenGL ES 2 :D | 13:05 |
| alterego | 73 lines of C code :S | 13:05 |
| Trizt | congrats | 13:05 |
| alterego | Okay, next task will be, move shaders into external data files and create a handler for loading some 3D model format. | 13:06 |
| alterego | Actually, I'm going to use my SRTM stuff. | 13:06 |
| alterego | Then texture it with possibly open street map or google view. | 13:07 |
| alterego | Google maps even .. | 13:07 |
| alterego | Or, I could use the Nokia map tile server :) | 13:07 |
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| alterego | Then, I can take over the world! | 13:08 |
| alterego | I was thinking yesterday, with the lack of apps in Ovi for Maemo, now is the best time to develop paid for apps. | 13:11 |
| alterego | Because people will pay for your app :) | 13:11 |
| Trizt | I would ask the Great Leader for some advice how to do that, if I would be you ;) | 13:11 |
| alterego | Well, I need to get a good idea first :) | 13:12 |
| alterego | Something that wont take too long to develop but is worth it. | 13:12 |
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| Trizt | I think he has some to share | 13:12 |
| alterego | Well, I've got a few ideas I need to think more about | 13:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | Strobe app :P | 13:13 |
| alterego | urgh | 13:13 |
| alterego | Using the camera flash? | 13:13 |
| pupnik | n900 price drop \p/ | 13:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, yes :p | 13:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | controlable speed | 13:14 |
| alterego | pupnik: buy me one! |p/ :D | 13:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol | 13:20 |
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| alterego | I like how my pictograph looks like it's looming over pupnik's :) | 13:32 |
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| RST38h | Hehe, someone has got a picture of the N9 | 13:35 |
| alterego | Oh really ... | 13:35 |
| RST38h | Looks nice. Four row keyboard is there. | 13:35 |
| alterego | link? | 13:35 |
| RST38h | It appears to be running Symbian though =) | 13:35 |
| alterego | Hahah | 13:35 |
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| RST38h | http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/25/nokia-n9-or-something-in-the-wild-8-megapixel-camera-america/ | 13:36 |
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| crashanddie | This is just scary: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10267 | 13:37 |
| povbot | Bug 10267: Sometimes when I remove an application a random one gets downloaded and installed automatically | 13:37 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: bullshit | 13:37 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h: yes master, sorry master, do you need me to do anything master, want me to shut up master? | 13:38 |
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| crashanddie | RST38h: oh, and by the way, piss off? :D | 13:39 |
| RST38h | crashanddie: haven't decided yet, stand by. | 13:39 |
| alterego | engadget seems to think it's C series | 13:41 |
| alterego | Because it has a C0 on it :P | 13:41 |
| RST38h | which sounds like a good logical conclusion | 13:42 |
| alterego | Heh | 13:43 |
| alterego | What is the purpse of the 'C' class of devices anyway? | 13:43 |
| MohammadAG51 | Crappy | 13:43 |
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| alterego | Did they ever release a rationale of what N S C etc really mean? | 13:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | 18+ i'm afraid | 13:44 |
| alterego | like targetted audience etc? | 13:44 |
| alterego | So you've not seen it then: :P | 13:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | seen what? | 13:45 |
| alterego | 6ou said it was 18+ :P | 13:46 |
| MohammadAG51 | why do maemo.org problems always pop up when X-Fade's away | 13:47 |
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| MohammadAG51 | alterego, NSC, yeah | 13:47 |
| alterego | Oh, heh | 13:47 |
| * MohammadAG51 thinks of a neat trick | 13:48 | |
| MohammadAG51 | maemo-optify-deb $(CURDIR)/../somefile.deb | 13:48 |
| MohammadAG51 | i wonder if it'd work | 13:48 |
| MohammadAG51 | quite ironic http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/perl/5.8.3-3osso11+0m5/ | 13:49 |
| Corsac | yeah there's a circular dependency in perl/perl-modules | 13:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | no, the package is actually missing | 13:51 |
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| Corsac | MohammadAG51: afaik perl-modules is provided by the perl source package | 13:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | i know Corsac | 13:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | Corsac, http://maemo.org/packages/view/perl-modules/ | 13:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | Corsac, i uploaded the package, and I'm not the maintainer | 13:53 |
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| achipa | okay, who said that all N900 boxes are the same... | 14:03 |
| achipa | ... cause they aren't :) | 14:03 |
| psycho_oreos | how many variants you know of? | 14:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | i've seen about 6 different boxes on the interwebz | 14:13 |
| strohi | where are the differences? | 14:14 |
| psycho_oreos | I've seen only two | 14:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | US box has manufacture date, UK box doesn't | 14:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | US box doesn't have the 2mm to usb adapter | 14:15 |
| psycho_oreos | there's a very fancy one which was given to critics or something.. was the opening of n900, and you had to hook it up to a computer, ssh in and answer a question | 14:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | hacker's edition i think | 14:15 |
| psycho_oreos | I guess mine would have been the US edition, it doesn't have that 2mm to USB (which was what I saw in that deboxing of a fancy n900) I want that lol | 14:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | a heater's better | 14:17 |
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| psycho_oreos | heater? what you cold? | 14:18 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol the 2mm-usb adapter melts sometimes | 14:18 |
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| crs | Hi, I want to mount my build in memory on n900 with Linux, but all what I can see is sdb1 which is memory card (not build in 32G memory). How can I mount it? | 14:19 |
| achipa | MohammadAG51: well, for starters the complete back side (terms & conditions) is different :) | 14:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | achipa, which reminds me, I saw a "this is an ovi services device" box the other day | 14:19 |
| achipa | MohammadAG51: my DDP box has that. The US box doesn't | 14:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | DDP? | 14:20 |
| achipa | developer device program | 14:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | fancy acronyms | 14:20 |
| achipa | fancy THREE LETTER acronyms :P | 14:20 |
| achipa | anyway, the DDP box seems to be the same as that of the Amsterdam loaners | 14:21 |
| achipa | (and retail boxes in Serbia) | 14:21 |
| psycho_oreos | yup mine has the same message printed clearly on the box "this is an ovi services device" printed on the bottom of the box | 14:22 |
| psycho_oreos | 2nd last line from the bottom lol and it also says,"Registration via SMS required. Operator fees, Ovi Service Terms and Privacy Policy apply. www.ovi.com." | 14:23 |
| achipa | psycho_oreos: what country is the box from ? | 14:23 |
| psycho_oreos | achipa, I got it from AU, but guessing by what MohammadAG51 said, I guess it would have been US box | 14:24 |
| MohammadAG51 | i guess it's a post PR1.2 thing | 14:24 |
| psycho_oreos | mine wasn't shipped with PR1.2 | 14:24 |
| MohammadAG51 | hum | 14:24 |
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| achipa | my US box has three large columns of text on the back | 14:25 |
| psycho_oreos | was something like 1.1.1 or something | 14:25 |
| achipa | English, Spanish and French | 14:25 |
| achipa | (top aligned) | 14:25 |
| psycho_oreos | mine only has English, and two paragraphs of disclaimer.. bottom aligned | 14:25 |
| MohammadAG51 | does it have the date? | 14:25 |
| psycho_oreos | not on the bottom of the box no | 14:25 |
| MohammadAG51 | mine has 47/2009, week 47 year 2009 | 14:25 |
| achipa | MohammadAG51: where should the date be ? | 14:26 |
| MohammadAG51 | one of the sides | 14:26 |
| MohammadAG51 | iirc | 14:26 |
| achipa | psycho_oreos: does yours have a clause on the FM transmitter ? | 14:26 |
| psycho_oreos | mine doesn't have any date printed on the outside of the box | 14:27 |
| achipa | MohammadAG51: uhm, not that I can see... one side is missing, though, likely because of a rebate | 14:27 |
| psycho_oreos | achipa, nope, it has A-tick sticker beside the barcodes (where it details the MAC address, etc) | 14:27 |
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| psycho_oreos | "N342 The A-Tick shows this phone complies with all current ACMA standards, including for exposure to radio frequency energy. more information is the inside this package or at www.amta.org.au/sar" | 14:30 |
| achipa | AU and HK had different launch dates from EU and NA, so are likely to be localized | 14:30 |
| achipa | psycho_oreos: yep, that's an Aussie box, not US | 14:30 |
| psycho_oreos | achipa, gay lol, yet again, unique :) | 14:31 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah I figured launch dates for AU is always far behind EU and NA, it always has been | 14:31 |
| * psycho_oreos was a little irritated that his didn't come with CA-146C which doesn't require a separate car charger | 14:32 | |
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| achipa | Still, funny to see the NA box missing the Ovi clause. I wonder if they are part of the MyNokia operation at all | 14:33 |
| achipa | psycho_oreos: yep, a useful critter, that one | 14:33 |
| psycho_oreos | mine has that message but I was lucky to not to be forced to sign up to mynokia, me old lady's phone tries to sign her up when I tried setting it up | 14:34 |
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| psycho_oreos | achipa, hell yeah when your previous phone was n95-1 (lol horrid version I had) | 14:34 |
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| pupnik | alterego: wait for meego device, then decide | 14:37 |
| alterego | Not really one for capacitive tbh .. | 14:39 |
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| alterego | Woo, my first smooth coloured GLES polygon ... | 14:58 |
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| alterego | That looks pretty | 14:59 |
| alterego | I remember doing something similar in OpenGL 1.1 back in the day ... | 14:59 |
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| alterego | Sooo, now what ... | 15:00 |
| alterego | Lighting .. | 15:00 |
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| aretrfre34 | how to use scim to input pinyin | 15:15 |
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| aretrfre34 | i tried ctr space not works, help | 15:16 |
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| MohammadAG51 | wb everyone lol | 15:26 |
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| alterego | Heh | 15:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | #maemo felt weird with only 17 users in it :P | 15:28 |
| * ZogG hugs MohammadAG51 | 15:29 | |
| ZogG | MohammadAG51 you went to split we staied here | 15:30 |
| ZogG | you are loser | 15:30 |
| aretrfre34 | where i can download maemo packages for using offline | 15:30 |
| pahartik | aretrfre34: "http://repository.maemo.org/" | 15:33 |
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| aretrfre34 | i meant disk image or torrent, it isn't handy to download manually | 15:36 |
| aretrfre34 | ok may be this one http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/armel/maemo-sdk-rootstrap_5.0_10.2010.19-1_armel.tgz | 15:37 |
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| aretrfre34 | nope i don't need sdk, i need iso or something | 15:40 |
| aretrfre34 | like in ubuntu i have live cd, should be same | 15:40 |
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| aretrfre34 | !infobot | 15:46 |
| aretrfre34 | infobot: hi | 15:46 |
| infobot | hello, aretrfre34 | 15:46 |
| aretrfre34 | infobot: how to | 15:46 |
| aretrfre34 | infobot: wayttd | 15:46 |
| infobot | What Are You Trying To Do? | 15:46 |
| aretrfre34 | infobot: help | 15:47 |
| pahartik | aretrfre34: Equivalent would be official flashable Maemo image from Nokia... | 15:47 |
| aretrfre34 | infobot: help me! | 15:47 |
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| Hoxzer | Ehm.... maemo doesn't have 'patch' ? | 15:47 |
| ShadowJK | it's probably in the sdk | 15:48 |
| aretrfre34 | pahartik:where is it? | 15:48 |
| ShadowJK | tablets-dev.nokia.com | 15:48 |
| ShadowJK | iirc | 15:48 |
| Macer | la la la | 15:48 |
| pahartik | aretrfre34: "http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/" | 15:49 |
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| aretrfre34 | thank you guys! | 15:52 |
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| Psi | is it normal to have "restore applications" as an option in the app manager or is it supposed to go away after you finish restoring all the apps | 15:53 |
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| * pahartik wonders whether "keyboard panel" of "osso-xterm" is configurable at all anymore | 16:03 | |
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| MohammadAG | any ideas peepe There is a problem with the configuration server (/usr/lib/libgconf2-4/gconf-sanity-check2 exited with status 256) ? | 16:04 |
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| Corsac | Stskeeps: aha, just noticed, but you're still in the configure summary of unrealircd | 16:06 |
| Macer | hello | 16:06 |
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| ecksun | anyone here who have used CMulticalendar::getEventInList and can explain to me what the vector vcallid are for? | 16:16 |
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| alterego | Great, for some reason my service isn't auto starting on startup .. | 16:21 |
| alterego | It's been working fine until this last update and I've not changed the upstart script :( | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | that should teach you not to argue about installing perl | 16:22 |
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| alterego | debugging upstart scripts is a pain in the ass because you have to keep restarting the f*cking device :( | 16:22 |
| MohammadAG | debugging my ubuntu image isn't better... | 16:22 |
| MohammadAG | I have to shut down, boot maemo, change something, shutdown maemo, then boot ubuntu again | 16:23 |
| alterego | Nice | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | not really lol | 16:23 |
| alterego | :) get a better dev environment :P | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | I got the touchscreen working | 16:24 |
| MohammadAG | but it's flipped | 16:24 |
| alterego | Why don't you use the N900 emulator? | 16:24 |
| MohammadAG | i.e touching the top part moves the mouse to the bottom of the screen | 16:24 |
| alterego | Hah | 16:24 |
| MohammadAG | what N900 emulator... | 16:24 |
| alterego | gutted | 16:24 |
| alterego | The same N900 emulater you use to boot the meego 1.0 image. | 16:24 |
| MohammadAG | that's not a problem, I can calibrate the screen I suppose | 16:24 |
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| MohammadAG | huh? | 16:24 |
| alterego | I actually got it to boot PR1.2 | 16:24 |
| alterego | Well, I got as far as the moving 5 dots | 16:25 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 16:25 |
| alterego | And then a load of init output and it died | 16:25 |
| alterego | Probably bme related | 16:25 |
| MohammadAG | I still don't get what emulator you're referring to | 16:25 |
| alterego | It's qemu, but with a specific N900 target | 16:25 |
| MohammadAG | figures, how do I get it? | 16:25 |
| alterego | You can get it from the gitorious, I had to compile it but it went pretty smoothly and worked great. | 16:25 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 16:26 |
| MohammadAG | There is a problem with the configuration server (/usr/lib/libgconf2-4/gconf-sanity-check2 exited with status 256) <-- I guess you don't know how to fix that right? :D | 16:26 |
| alterego | http://meego.gitorious.org/qemu-maemo?page=9 | 16:26 |
| alterego | Nope, that could mean anything from my opinion :P | 16:26 |
| MohammadAG | grr, googling doesn't help | 16:27 |
| ZogG | google is evil | 16:28 |
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| alterego | I really don't have time to get this to work either ... | 16:31 |
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| alterego | Got to have a shower and get ready to go out. | 16:31 |
| ZogG | with chicks? | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG | >.< | 16:32 |
| alterego | Last try, if this doesn't work I'm going to cry | 16:34 |
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| * Psi waits for openoffice to load so he can see if printing now works | 16:37 | |
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| sobczyk | hi, I wanted to download virual machine sdk desktop image but there is only server image, where can I get the desktop one? | 16:38 |
| Psi | oh, wow, that is the most awesome thing ever. Just setup printer and printed a document over wifi to network printer from openoffice on n900 | 16:39 |
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| ShadowJK | easy-debian? | 16:40 |
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| Psi | yeah, easy-debian chroot + apt-get install cupsys cupsys-client + http://localhost:631 + select printer from list (it already polled network and found the name) + supply ppd file = AWESOME | 16:41 |
| mavhc | your printer doesn't accept pdf files? | 16:42 |
| mavhc | much easier that way | 16:42 |
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| Psi | it might do, dunno | 16:43 |
| Psi | kyocera mita fs-1900 | 16:43 |
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| * h0n3st is away: I'm busy | 16:43 | |
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| mavhc | new ones have web interfaces where you can upload pdfs and xps and stuff | 16:46 |
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| Psi | ah | 16:48 |
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| Psi | i think you might be able to email it pdfs but ive never looked at that side of it | 16:49 |
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| mavhc | does solve the whole printer driver and mobile device problem, so it'll be everywhere soon | 16:51 |
| Psi | yeah | 16:51 |
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| MohammadAG | F*** YES! | 16:53 |
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| MohammadAG | ubuntu running in R&D mode | 16:53 |
| MohammadAG | Clock works too :D | 16:55 |
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| Appiah | so you turned a n900 to a clock? | 16:58 |
| Appiah | nice | 16:58 |
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| MohammadAG | Appiah, lol screw you | 17:07 |
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| BCMM | any advice on making a car radio tune to my n900? | 17:14 |
| BCMM | it can't be manually tuned, and when aiuto-tuning, it pauses briefly on my frequency and then moves on | 17:15 |
| Appiah | MohammadAG: :) | 17:16 |
| Jartza | BCMM: try fm boost. | 17:16 |
| Jartza | BCMM: http://themeegoblog.com/2010/01/07/how-to-boost-the-performance-of-the-fm-transmitter-on-your-n900/ | 17:16 |
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| Jartza | that helped for me | 17:16 |
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| sobczyk | anyone knows where I can get desktop vmware SDK images? | 17:19 |
| jacekowski | Jartza: it works only on us version of the phone | 17:19 |
| jacekowski | Jartza: eu is on highest power setting anyways | 17:20 |
| Jartza | not true | 17:20 |
| Jartza | I'm in finland and I can Really Tell The Difference | 17:20 |
| jacekowski | bullshit | 17:20 |
| jacekowski | RTFM | 17:20 |
| Jartza | my home stereo will hiss and rattle without running fm boost | 17:20 |
| Jartza | my car radio wont tune to station without fm boost | 17:20 |
| Jartza | "bullshit" - thanks :) | 17:20 |
| BCMM | i'm using fm boost | 17:20 |
| Jartza | I guess I'm just deaf then :( | 17:21 |
| jacekowski | /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/power_level | 17:21 |
| jacekowski | cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/power_level | 17:21 |
| jacekowski | do that | 17:21 |
| jacekowski | that shows current power level | 17:21 |
| jacekowski | and fm-boost is just doing echo 118> /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/power_level | 17:21 |
| ticl | is the "Swipe to Unlock" screen part of hildon or a seperate program? | 17:22 |
| jacekowski | and all versions except HK and US have that at max already | 17:23 |
| Jartza | it sais 98 | 17:24 |
| Jartza | not 118 | 17:25 |
| Jartza | and this phone is bought from finland around 3 weeks ago | 17:25 |
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| Jartza | I'm still trusting my ears and my experiences with the fm transmitter | 17:26 |
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| Jartza | hmm. | 17:27 |
| Jartza | now it's 113 when I'm actually playing something | 17:28 |
| Jartza | but still not 118 | 17:28 |
| ShadowJK | i think 113 is what you normally get if you have no cables attached | 17:34 |
| MohammadAG | fm-boost should raise it to 118 | 17:34 |
| MohammadAG | ~seen noobmonk3y | 17:34 |
| infobot | noobmonk3y <~c2b06924@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.176.105.36> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 16d 2h 32m 48s ago, saying: 'its an app that needs to be used after you've screwed up your n900 normally'. | 17:34 |
| alterego | Grrr | 17:34 |
| alterego | Seems there's a bug in our upstart .. | 17:35 |
| ShadowJK | Starting/stopping fm transmitter, plugging or unplugging cables will reset any changes fmboost does | 17:35 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, I use qwerty12's 'mod' so that everytime I start the transmitter fm-boost is run | 17:36 |
| MohammadAG | any gnome techies here? need to run an app at login | 17:36 |
| Jartza | ShadowJK: I seem to get 113 with or without power adapter. | 17:37 |
| Jartza | it doesn't seem to change | 17:37 |
| Jartza | and fm boost raises it to 118. of course that can be done manually too, up to 120. | 17:37 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: ubuntu? | 17:38 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, yes, gnome-terminal | 17:39 |
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| MohammadAG | need to start it at login | 17:39 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: System->Preferences->Startup Applications | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, lol can't use the UI, screen not calibrated | 17:39 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:39 |
| alterego | Erm, probably in gconf hang on ;) | 17:39 |
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| alterego | Or you could use your .xinitrc? | 17:40 |
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| Jartza | hmm | 17:41 |
| Jartza | and now it's again 88 | 17:41 |
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| Jartza | I have power cable plugged in, and I did disable/enable fm-transmitter | 17:42 |
| Jartza | and it started with 88 | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, err? | 17:42 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: nvm not sure | 17:44 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 17:44 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder what file ts_calibrate edits | 17:44 |
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| alterego | Apparently, ~/.gnome2/session-manual | 17:45 |
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| alterego | MAybe look into ~/.config/autostart ? | 17:46 |
| alterego | Yeah, that's what you want :) | 17:46 |
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| jacekowski | MohammadAG: that's for time | 17:53 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: if you play around with it it will be regenrated sooner or later | 17:53 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: but until it's regenrated your time will be off | 17:53 |
| jacekowski | or it was tz_calibrate | 17:54 |
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| alterego | Yay, got it to work finally :) | 17:57 |
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| alterego | Seems to be some stupid race condition with pymaemo-optify and upstart :( | 17:58 |
| e-yes | what can i use to record sound in maemo? | 17:59 |
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| MohammadAG | jacekowski, ts_calibrate, it's for calibrating the screen | 18:01 |
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| Venemo | hi all | 18:20 |
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| dotblank | Venemo, Hi | 18:26 |
| Venemo | hey dotblank! :) | 18:31 |
| Venemo | I see you've updated your app | 18:31 |
| Venemo | it is good that it now has a desktop icon | 18:31 |
| dotblank | yup :) is there a way to make it appear in the app manager? | 18:32 |
| dotblank | liek the other applications do? | 18:32 |
| eitama | Hey Venemo | 18:32 |
| Venemo | hey eitama! | 18:32 |
| Venemo | dotblank why, it doesn't appear? | 18:32 |
| dotblank | Venemo, well the icon doesn't, but it is listed | 18:33 |
| MohammadAG | dotblank, encode it | 18:33 |
| dotblank | MohammadAG, to what? | 18:33 |
| MohammadAG | uuencode -m icon.png icon.base64 | 18:34 |
| MohammadAG | dotblank, http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging#Displaying_an_icon_in_the_Application_Manager_next_to_your_package | 18:34 |
| dotblank | MohammadAG, oh nice!, thank you | 18:34 |
| MohammadAG | yw :) | 18:34 |
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| MohammadAG | how do I know what node (in /dev) my mouse is using? | 18:37 |
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| MohammadAG | oh nvm, dmesg helped | 18:37 |
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| Venemo | re | 18:38 |
| Venemo | sorry, my machine freezed... :D | 18:39 |
| ptl | Your apologies are accepted. | 18:39 |
| ptl | :P | 18:39 |
| eitama | I dont know, I'll have to think about that ptl | 18:40 |
| eitama | :_ | 18:40 |
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| MohammadAG | #ubuntu is a waste of freenode load | 18:42 |
| Venemo | dotblak: so, your app doesn't show up in the app manager? | 18:43 |
| ptl | to show in the app manager it must be in the user/ section | 18:43 |
| Venemo | btw | 18:43 |
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| Venemo | my app is displayed in the app manager, but it doesn't appear in the desktop category | 18:44 |
| Venemo | here is the control file: | 18:44 |
| Venemo | http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/eve-watcher/trunk/poc/sticky-notes/sticky-notes/debian/control | 18:44 |
| Venemo | it is set to user/Desktop | 18:45 |
| Venemo | what's the issue? | 18:45 |
| ptl | I dunno :( | 18:45 |
| Venemo | http://maemo.org/packages/view/sticky-notes/ | 18:45 |
| Venemo | it is listed in "other" in the app manager | 18:46 |
| Venemo | the other issue is that the changelog is misinterpreted | 18:46 |
| Venemo | http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/eve-watcher/trunk/poc/sticky-notes/sticky-notes/debian/changelog | 18:46 |
| Venemo | the dates in the package details page are wrong | 18:46 |
| ptl | have you tried user/desktop instead of user/Desktop ? | 18:46 |
| Venemo | ptl: not yet | 18:47 |
| Venemo | ptl: good idea, however | 18:47 |
| ptl | I've seen some widgets using apt-cache show here and they all show user/desktop in all lowercase | 18:47 |
| Venemo | mhm | 18:47 |
| Venemo | okay :) | 18:47 |
| Venemo | ptl: thanks :) | 18:48 |
| Venemo | ptl: do you have an idea for the changelog, too? | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | <Venemo> it is set to user/Desktop | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | it's user/desktop | 18:48 |
| MohammadAG | bah, ptl beat me to it | 18:48 |
| ptl | lemme see the changelog | 18:48 |
| dotblank | Venemo, its shows in app manager just no icon but that will be fixed soon | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, why isn't there an i386 build? | 18:49 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: I don't know how to create one | 18:49 |
| ptl | I dunno | 18:49 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, debian/control, arch is set to armel only | 18:50 |
| MohammadAG | set it to all and an X86 version should be built | 18:50 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: yes, the people in here told that I should set it to arm | 18:50 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: what is the correct value I should set it to? | 18:51 |
| dotblank | Venemo, silly people! | 18:51 |
| Venemo | dotblank: lol :D | 18:51 |
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| smackpotat | whens is the first arm mego device thats not a phone coming out | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, why did they tell you that? | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | did it fail on X86? | 18:53 |
| MohammadAG | oh and brb, going into Ubuntu | 18:53 |
| smackpotat | i want so much to upgrade from my n810 | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo | 18:53 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: no, it didn't fail. They just told I should set it to "arm" (by default it was "any"), and I believed them | 18:53 |
| ptl | smackpotat: Q3, it will be a chinese iPad-like called NPad | 18:54 |
| ptl | smackpotat: search for it on tmo and you'll find | 18:54 |
| smackpotat | thanks | 18:54 |
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| smackpotat | tmo? | 18:55 |
| ptl | did anyone try the new version of mycontact? The version which assigns custom ringtones to groups and contacts? | 18:55 |
| ptl | smackpotat: tmo == talk.maemo.org | 18:55 |
| Venemo | smackpotat: there are rumours about a Nokia-branded one, but no proof as of now | 18:55 |
| smackpotat | who knew | 18:55 |
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| bactius | I got a problem since installing fmms. I wrote about it here two days ago but had to quit and have since then been flashing my N900 and re-installed fmms, but the problem reoccurred. I cannot visit web pages. | 19:09 |
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| bactius | I don´t know if it is my provider who sends the following web page message: "Error: Requested content 'webpage' cannot be accessed. You do not have access to the site." | 19:11 |
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| bactius | but i guess it is. | 19:11 |
| bactius | I can send and recieve mms, chat through gtalk,facebook, irc, listen to web radio and so on. | 19:13 |
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| ptl | MyContacts really works. Cool. | 19:16 |
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| pyther | How can a toggle numlock? I want to type numbers without having to press the arrow key everytime | 19:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | press blue thrice | 19:22 |
| SpeedEvil | or is it twice | 19:22 |
| SpeedEvil | it's twice | 19:22 |
| pyther | ahh cool | 19:23 |
| pyther | is there a guide on using the keyboard more efficiently that you might know of? | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | nope. | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I find pressing the keys with my thumbs works. | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN900 needs to publish a speed-typing-course. | 19:24 |
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| GAN900 | Practice, practice, practice! | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 19:25 |
| pyther | I meant more of like shortcuts a stuff that toggle different function on the keyboard | 19:25 |
| SpeedEvil | When my laptop died for a week, I went from maybe 15->30wpm | 19:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900 is outstanding, no practice will bring you into his league | 19:27 |
| MohammadAG | heh I'm on 58WPM XD | 19:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | i am to as i us nly max thre chr wrds, thts isy | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | do TLA's count as 3 words? :-P | 19:29 |
| MohammadAG | No | 19:30 |
| MohammadAG | xP | 19:30 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, http://www.typingtest.com/ pick 1 min, test instructions, works on the N900, I got 58 adjusted | 19:31 |
| pyther | Tweaker + Alarmed is perfect | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | alarmed is great. Can you delete templates though? or alarms? | 19:32 |
| pyther | ptl: with mycontacts are still able to the name next to the picture (normal contact app) or is it the picture only (as like in the screenshot) | 19:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | only 20wpm here - but I need to cut my nails. | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd bet GAN900 has 200WPM | 19:36 |
| MohammadAG | 62/4 :P | 19:36 |
| MohammadAG | at least that's what he got when I 'challenged' him | 19:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - my typing is faster when I haven't spent 4 hours shredding branches | 19:37 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | my typing will speed up with a nice coffee... so bbiam | 19:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw bme seems to do quite some weird stuff (like reducing bat reg volt by 60mV), but nothing really smart or complex. I.E it doesn't detect end of charge by monitoring bq27200, instead it floats forever when you keep screen on during charging | 19:42 |
| ptl | Does anyone know how to log SMS strings with dbus-scripts? | 19:42 |
| ptl | There was an old message from Matan saying he'd implement it but I didn't see how (yet). | 19:43 |
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| marcus | How do you add Conky to the desktop on n900? | 19:46 |
| marcus | I have Conky installed as an app. | 19:46 |
| pyther | ptl: ping | 19:47 |
| strohi | marcus, maybe you must add it to you desktop | 19:48 |
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| marcus | strohi: Could not see it in Widgets. | 19:48 |
| ptl | pyther: pong --- as far as I know, you can show text-only contacts too, but I have not explored it that much | 19:48 |
| ptl | pyther: I am trying now to find out how to get SMS messages with dbus-scripts, if possible at all | 19:49 |
| strohi | k | 19:49 |
| pyther | ahh ok, cool thanks, the group feature can be really useful to me | 19:49 |
| alterego | ptl, yes, it is possible. | 19:50 |
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| ptl | alterego: how? the dbusscript wiki page says it doesn't handle complex types (arrays, which is the SMS message) yet | 19:51 |
| ptl | but on the other hand there are posts from Matan in May where he says he'll do it | 19:51 |
| alterego | Use python | 19:51 |
| alterego | Or something else. | 19:52 |
| ptl | with dbus-scripts? | 19:52 |
| alterego | I don't know what dbus-scripts is. Some dbus-send/monitor shell script support? | 19:52 |
| ptl | yes | 19:52 |
| ptl | exactly. | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | friggin useful | 19:53 |
| magic_silver_box | !op | 19:53 |
| alterego | Interesting, well, I'd still do it in Python. | 19:53 |
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| alterego | dbus signal processing requires a main loop, it's pretty hard to do that in pure sh ... | 19:55 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: have you worked out as yet why bme is polling at 1hz when charging? | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea | 19:55 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil, probably status info? | 19:55 |
| cehteh | the battery may explode when you overcharge it one second too long :P | 19:56 |
| Venemo | marcus: install Sticky Notes instead | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: won't happen though, as bq24150 doesn't overcharge the cell | 19:56 |
| marcus | Venemo: For watching system info? | 19:57 |
| cehteh | well dunno .. maybe ask nokia for the source .... | 19:57 |
| cehteh | really some things are just unnecesary stupid | 19:57 |
| Venemo | marcus: huh, sorry... I mi-interpreted it for Conboy... or whatever | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: been there, done that. No progress | 19:58 |
| cehteh | how predictable :P | 19:58 |
| marcus | Venemo: Aha (: | 19:58 |
| cehteh | what controls the screen brightness btw? dsme? | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | mce? | 19:59 |
| cehteh | dunno | 19:59 |
| cehteh | but i am bit annoyed that this isnt open source | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_tklock_mode_change string:"unlocked" | 20:00 |
| cehteh | some adaptive algorithm which learns by users hints would be cool and not really hard to do | 20:00 |
| marcus | What does Autolock do? Is it like after 5min (user defined) then it locks and you have to use the PIN code? | 20:01 |
| marcus | Or is it a custom code? | 20:01 |
| Venemo | is there a way to tell how many times have my app been downloaded? | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | custom code | 20:01 |
| marcus | DocScrutinizer: Okay, thanks! | 20:01 |
| marcus | What is current lock code then? | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | 12345 | 20:02 |
| marcus | Aha, a five-digit code. | 20:02 |
| cehteh | any length | 20:02 |
| Venemo | marcus: every Nokia device's default code is 12345 | 20:02 |
| alterego | Venemo once it's in extras yeah, it's on the product page. | 20:02 |
| marcus | Oh (: | 20:02 |
| cehteh | 12345 is just the factory default | 20:02 |
| cehteh | you can change it | 20:02 |
| marcus | You guys find it usefull? The lock | 20:02 |
| Venemo | alterego: but no way from devel? okay :) | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 20:02 |
| alterego | neah, not from devel. | 20:02 |
| Venemo | alterego: btw, I added yo to the credits section of the sticky notes thread | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | marcus: YMMV | 20:03 |
| Venemo | alterego: your idea works brilliantly in there :) | 20:03 |
| cehteh | i set mine to 1 hour just i case i really leave the device laying around | 20:03 |
| cehteh | some better locking ting would make it more useful | 20:03 |
| marcus | Yeah. | 20:03 |
| cehteh | aka when moving (accel) then dont lock it | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | marcus: be aware there is NO way to recover from a forgotten lockcode, other than Nokia care center | 20:04 |
| cehteh | when in reach of home wlan (or by gps position) then dont lock it either | 20:04 |
| cehteh | but lock it when laying still away from home | 20:04 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: not really, its stored on the emmc and i had some bricking which erased the code | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, that's new | 20:05 |
| Venemo | cehteh: OMG! | 20:05 |
| cehteh | dunno where its stored but i dont think its pretty secure | 20:05 |
| cehteh | well plain reflashing will ask for the code or? | 20:05 |
| Venemo | cehteh: you should report this as a bug if it is really true | 20:05 |
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| cehteh | Venemo: i cant reproduce it to be sure enough, but i am quite sure that it happend to me | 20:06 |
| Venemo | cehteh: still, it is a bug. | 20:06 |
| cehteh | i dont care .. i am rather considering to use a encrypted FS | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: can't reproduce?? | 20:06 |
| cehteh | this device has no much security, take it | 20:07 |
| cehteh | remember yesterday i found an email inbox from some other person on my device (backup) | 20:07 |
| Venemo | cehteh: omg. | 20:07 |
| cehteh | the first device i bought was from amazon warehouse deals... that was the former owners email inbox | 20:08 |
| cehteh | modest cache | 20:08 |
| cehteh | he delteted everything .. at least he thought | 20:08 |
| Venemo | cehteh: lol | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | this device has better security than anything else I found for mobile equipment so far (except of password generating dongles :-P) | 20:08 |
| cehteh | well when i send it back i really wiped the emmc | 20:08 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yeah but still there are some things which are still not optimal | 20:09 |
| cehteh | has the power-kernel dmcrypt support? | 20:09 |
| cehteh | maybe i shall try that | 20:09 |
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| vldcnst | X-Fade: there? | 20:10 |
| cehteh | but still feeding the key and retaining it for use is still some usability problem | 20:10 |
| cehteh | so i dont consider such a device really secure | 20:10 |
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| cehteh | if you encrypt the FS then you want that someone who steals it has no access to it .. but you dont want to type in a 15 char passphrase every time you use it | 20:11 |
| Venemo | cehteh: then what is your proposed solution? | 20:12 |
| cehteh | dont store confidental things on the device | 20:12 |
| Venemo | cehteh: agreed | 20:12 |
| cehteh | causual things may be hidden well enough | 20:12 |
| marcus | _If_ Flash 10.1 would come to n900, would that "require" a pr1.3? | 20:12 |
| marcus | Or a simple update? | 20:12 |
| Venemo | marcus: simple update | 20:12 |
| GAN900 | ^ | 20:12 |
| marcus | Venemo: Good. | 20:12 |
| GAN900 | I think | 20:12 |
| GAN900 | unless MicroB needs some changes | 20:13 |
| Venemo | marcus: but for what we know about Nokia, they would release it in a new PR, anyways | 20:13 |
| GAN900 | But that could be shipped as PR1.2.1 | 20:13 |
| cehteh | well maybe flash 10.1 comes to fennec earlier .. then its a simple update | 20:13 |
| Venemo | GAN900: agreed | 20:13 |
| marcus | Venemo: Exactly. | 20:13 |
| cehteh | hey and today i experienced the great new firefox tech .. plugins in processes | 20:14 |
| cehteh | neat thing .. browser crashes, plugins stay running" | 20:14 |
| Venemo | cehteh: lol | 20:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-06-18.log.html#t2010-06-18T22:52:09 | 20:16 |
| cehteh | btw anyone of you using the power-kernel and maep? .. i get reproducible crashes (kernel) even without overclocking and all default | 20:16 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer? | 20:17 |
| cehteh | ah ok | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: Kw did a fully encrypted secure system | 20:18 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: my point is usability, not technical possibility | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | and seems it's not even noticeably slower | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: where is the usability problem? | 20:19 |
| cehteh | i have most computers encrypted now there is no big performance penality | 20:19 |
| cehteh | (mostly not noticeable) | 20:19 |
| cehteh | with a underpowered processor and not enough ram for much caching like the n900 this might be little diffent but may work still | 20:20 |
| Venemo | cehteh: anyways, what is your job that you have to store such sensitive information? | 20:20 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i want to protect the device against someone stealing it and has access to my data | 20:20 |
| Venemo | cehteh: or just good ol' paranoia? | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the plan | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | and Kw did it | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | so again | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: where is the usability problem? | 20:21 |
| cehteh | but since this device is always on someone stealing it has instant access unless i add the password check and locking there | 20:21 |
| cehteh | but then locking and unlocking with a PW isnt comfortable | 20:21 |
| cehteh | and next you have to unlock it often in public places where one can spy the pw | 20:21 |
| Venemo | cehteh: someone is working on securing by face-detection | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: shut down the device when treated in any way other than the one "secret" correct one, when unlocking the screen | 20:22 |
| cehteh | to complicated (and easy to cheat unless you have *very* sophisticated algortihms) | 20:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nonsense | 20:22 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i meant Venemo about face recognition | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 20:23 |
| cehteh | the shutdown may work | 20:23 |
| cehteh | but still not protection against directed attacks where someone spies you how to unlock it | 20:23 |
| cehteh | and still you do some slip when you are in a rush and have to check the train and miss it because your phone just shut down and you have to reboot | 20:24 |
| cehteh | thats still a usability problem | 20:24 |
| cehteh | no i dont have a solution to it, but i want to point out that technical a lot things are possible but they all have some cost | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: the trick is to have absolutely naturally looking unlock 'secret'. lile e.g. holding and moving the device in a certain way. or clicking on the first "y" char on screen | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | or pretending unlock, but expecting a certain delayed action like starting a certain app for first user inteaction "after" unlocking | 20:26 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yes .. but imagine you are in a train (which vibrates and accelerates or whatever) then this holding/moving may fail | 20:26 |
| cehteh | there are clever ways .. click on the pets you know or whatever | 20:26 |
| cehteh | still *any* such thing buys from the usability in one or another way | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | the delayed action two-step unlock is a very secure approach | 20:27 |
| cehteh | some may be easy or acceptable, but nothing comes free | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: there's no devices yet with built-in micro-DNA-analysis via device's surface, that can tell for sure it's you without bothering you to care about authentication at all | 20:28 |
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| ptl | does anyone has a python function that correctly converts the array received from DBUS's SMS intercept to a string? | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: so yes, authentication for security comes at the axpense of some sort of... authentication action | 20:29 |
| ptl | deoctify() in pende's sample script doesn't work for accented messages. | 20:29 |
| w00t_ | ..wtf. my n900, which has been on charge all day, just freaked out (BINGBINGBINGBINGBINGBINGBING) and shut down | 20:30 |
| * w00t_ wonders if that is a bad sign | 20:30 | |
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| vldcnst | w00t_: he probably wants your attention. you do know he's not something you buy and put on a corner. | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: there's yjust one thing you could do: honeypots. Have an app named "MyBankAccounts" that actually detonates the device when started | 20:31 |
| w00t_ | vldcnst: he gets plenty of love and affection | 20:31 |
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| vldcnst | w00t_: well that bingbing says otherwise. | 20:32 |
| vldcnst | w00t_: it was probably a suicide attempt. | 20:32 |
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| w00t_ | no, suicide is when it tries to fly off the windowsill it's sitting on :) | 20:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | w00t_: maybe on_charge doesn't mean it actually charged? mine needs a double-plugin action every time now, otherwise charger not detected | 20:33 |
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| w00t_ | so long as it isn't a sign of my USB port dying.. | 20:33 |
| w00t_ | :P | 20:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | w00t_: regular bat_flat shutdown behaviour, nothing particularly uncommon | 20:34 |
| w00t_ | DocScrutinizer: i'd say it's a bit more uncommon when it's been sitting happily on charge for some hours with next to no usage apart from the odd app test | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | w00t_: see above | 20:35 |
| w00t_ | DocScrutinizer: I did see, but.. it doesn't make a great deal of sense | 20:35 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: can you do that with the battery controler? :) | 20:35 |
| w00t_ | charging LED was working, status area had charging indicator | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: huh? | 20:35 |
| cehteh | detonate :) | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | w00t_: then it actually makes no sense | 20:35 |
| vldcnst | w00t_: suicide attempts... no food apetise... ugh, you two need a professional help! /jokes off | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: alas (or thank god) no | 20:36 |
| cehteh | well maybe setting the vcc high enough to fry the device will already do and prolly works | 20:36 |
| cehteh | dunno how well the cpu protects itself | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: but meanwhile I learnt how to fry your SoC, if that's good enough for you | 20:37 |
| cehteh | hah :) | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | fry-app will be available on OVI store, for 49$, signed for your RSA-key and IMEI | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | as closed blob of course | 20:38 |
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| cehteh | lol | 20:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no free trial version :-P | 20:40 |
| * cehteh offers $49 to the first one who straces it on his device :P | 20:40 | |
| cehteh | well i think it shouldnt be too complicated to attempt and maybe even succeed to fry the SoC | 20:41 |
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| cehteh | there are plenty voltage bits .. and as root you just poke the right thing | 20:42 |
| cehteh | and you told about the other glitch on the design some time ago | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's several ways that are more or less documented. and a few undocumented really nasty ones I found, which are due to Nokia EE messed up things ;-D | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, for example that other glich | 20:43 |
| cehteh | yeah .. some may be just tries .. with a fair chance to succeed | 20:43 |
| cehteh | but i will (dont want to) never find out | 20:43 |
| cehteh | btw is the "IamHere" author sometimes here? | 20:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 20:45 |
| cehteh | the app "IamHere" | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | never heard of IamHere | 20:45 |
| cehteh | which phones home when the device gets stolen | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 20:46 |
| cehteh | with pics from both cams and gps coords | 20:46 |
| cehteh | either per sms or email | 20:46 |
| ptl | yep | 20:46 |
| cehteh | you activate it with sms too | 20:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pretty useless | 20:46 |
| ptl | but the source is not on packages.maemo.org | 20:46 |
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| ptl | imhere-0.3 | 20:46 |
| cehteh | i dont use it, makes no sense in my current setup | 20:46 |
| cehteh | but i think it could be improved a bit | 20:47 |
| cehteh | (to become little more useful) | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | makes no sense with current thiefs' setup | 20:47 |
| cehteh | turn off phone as soon as the stolen it? | 20:47 |
| cehteh | replace SIM? | 20:47 |
| cehteh | the later is accounted for .. | 20:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | we discussed that ad nauseum at OM-community. Usually a thief removes battery and SIM immediately after theft | 20:48 |
| cehteh | it explicitly sends out a notice when someone replaces the sim | 20:48 |
| cehteh | well yes but at some point he (or his buyer) has to turn it on again | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | for flashing only | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | or without any sim at all | 20:49 |
| cehteh | i doubt that 'causual' thiefs flash it | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, ok | 20:49 |
| cehteh | i mean i think of the junkie who want to get his next shot | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | but that's more likely the "thief" that found the device you lost in a pub, and is trying to find out to whom to return it | 20:50 |
| cehteh | and i am not that much interested in the thief but more where the device ends | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: those are exactly savvy of how to deal with SIM threat | 20:50 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: well the "i am here" app detects sim changes and actually gets armed by that sending out SMS and email then | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | remove sim and bat, and sell the device plus sim and bat in a bag to a rogue dealer who knows how to handle it | 20:52 |
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| cehteh | email (and thats my objection) is a bit useless because it has to connect to the right mailserver with the rightcredentials | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | dealer does reflash then | 20:52 |
| cehteh | well we need some way to disable reflashing | 20:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh yeah | 20:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | LOL | 20:53 |
| cehteh | should be doable .. hey isnt nolo free .. couhg | 20:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer mumbles swearwords | 20:53 | |
| MohammadAG51 | what if the i am here app fucks up init? | 20:53 |
| cehteh | shht :P | 20:53 |
| * MohammadAG51 speaks DocScrutinizer's swearwords | 20:53 | |
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| cehteh | dunno if dealers reflash it .. too much work | 20:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah, and it takes soooo much time... | 20:55 |
| * DocScrutinizer sends a 3kg burg-waechter hanglock to cehteh - "here mate, put that to your N900, and maybe to your part of body you never want to lose, as well" | 20:55 | |
| cehteh | they just resell it anonymously on a bar/discoteque | 20:55 |
| cehteh | haha | 20:55 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: you look like you never bought a stolen phone | 20:56 |
| cehteh | jacekowski: exactly | 20:56 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: wherever you get it from - phone is always wiped | 20:56 |
| jacekowski | imei number is changed | 20:56 |
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| cehteh | how do you know? :) | 20:56 |
| jacekowski | i bought couple stolen phones | 20:56 |
| MohammadAG51 | he's a dealer, doh | 20:56 |
| cehteh | soso | 20:57 |
| jacekowski | i know people who sell stolen phones | 20:57 |
| jacekowski | i know people who steal phones | 20:57 |
| cehteh | names, addresses .. call the police! | 20:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | dude, move that mirror away from your face :P | 20:57 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: why? | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, I mentioned we discussed that ad nauseum at OM-community, and found it's completely useless, did I? | 20:57 |
| jacekowski | in that way i know where to ask when something mine goes missing | 20:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | jacekowski, what if someone steals your phone | 20:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | nvm >.< | 20:58 |
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| luke-jr | jacekowski: get evidence. then the police. | 20:59 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: well, the only thing i would be worried about is the data on the phone, and i saied earlier already, dont put any confidental stuff on the phone | 20:59 |
| luke-jr | all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing | 20:59 |
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| jacekowski | luke-jr: as i said, i don't care about other people | 20:59 |
| lcuk2 | cehteh, one persons "private" number is enough | 20:59 |
| cehteh | even if a dealer just wipes it and doesnt try to recover the datza | 20:59 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: i care about myself | 20:59 |
| MohammadAG51 | selfish bastard | 20:59 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: and thing as it's now is better for me | 20:59 |
| cehteh | lcuk2: well thats unavoidable | 20:59 |
| cehteh | but for example the ssh keys i have on the phone all have good passphrases and no ssh-agent | 21:00 |
| * MohammadAG51 downgrades lcuk2 to lcuk | 21:00 | |
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| lcuk | \o thanks MohammadAG51 | 21:00 |
| * lcuk has sand everywhere | 21:00 | |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, anytime :P | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | is that a new security measure | 21:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (sand) | 21:01 |
| jacekowski | going back to security in a phone | 21:01 |
| lcuk | the slider of the n900 makes the worst noise ever when you get sand in it | 21:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol | 21:01 |
| jacekowski | only thing would be disabling flashing | 21:01 |
| jacekowski | but if it's made public | 21:01 |
| jacekowski | it will be worked around | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Secure-it And Nobody Dares | 21:01 |
| cehteh | at least some pin-query before flashing | 21:01 |
| lcuk | the one thing most criminals wont know how to do is reflash | 21:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | or even better, a passphrase to disable flashing | 21:02 |
| lcuk | they could play | 21:02 |
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| MohammadAG51 | lol lcuk +1 on that | 21:02 |
| cehteh | jacekowski: if you put that early in the bootloader its not easy to work around | 21:02 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG51: what if you forget passphrase | 21:02 |
| jacekowski | cato`: cable | 21:02 |
| lcuk | but looking at the amount of real users who cant flash.. | 21:02 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: cable* | 21:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | jacekowski, still better than disabling flashing altogether... | 21:02 |
| jacekowski | jtag/serial cable | 21:02 |
| cehteh | disable that :) | 21:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | SpeedEvil, said he didn't find a jTag port | 21:02 |
| jacekowski | it has to be there | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | find it | 21:03 |
| cehteh | the connectors under the battery are no jtag? | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | no, they're serial ports | 21:03 |
| jacekowski | it might be fbus/mbus | 21:03 |
| cehteh | i tought that jtag, usb and serial | 21:03 |
| jacekowski | or something | 21:03 |
| jacekowski | but anyways | 21:03 |
| jacekowski | there is always way of flashing the phone | 21:04 |
| cehteh | well isnt there some way to do jtag over serial? | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | If you fail to flash as you forgot the passphrase, the go to a rogue dealer. He has the genuine means to work around it :-P | 21:04 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: no | 21:04 |
| jacekowski | and if it's only one phone that is locked | 21:04 |
| MohammadAG51 | cehteh, even if you do, no one knows the port details | 21:04 |
| jacekowski | they will just throw it far far far away | 21:04 |
| cehteh | jacekowski: technically you could lock down a SoC well enough | 21:04 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: you can't | 21:04 |
| cehteh | but i am quite sure nokia has no interest in that | 21:05 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: even tpm chips has been broken | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | IMEI changing is crypto-secured on almost every phone of last ~8years I know of. Criminal dealers know how to change it nevertheless | 21:05 |
| cehteh | "well enough" means not absoluteky | 21:05 |
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| lcuk | jacekowski, to be fair, that involved lapping and melting the composite stuff around it and is pretty much out of bounds to regular hackers | 21:05 |
| cehteh | just well enough that the efforts of reflashing are over the price you get for selling it | 21:05 |
| lcuk | (tpm hacking) | 21:05 |
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| jacekowski | lcuk: but somebody will reverse it and publish | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, I mentioned we discussed that ad nauseum at OM-community, and found it's completely useless, did I? | 21:06 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: and then everybody will know how to flash it | 21:06 |
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| jacekowski | if you are worried about your data make a backup | 21:07 |
| cehteh | jacekowski: when the SoC has no data input open for flashing it has no data input open to do so | 21:07 |
| jacekowski | and use encryption | 21:07 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: nokia is using generit TI soc | 21:07 |
| jacekowski | generic* | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | gentlemen, the occasional jumkie stealing your phone won't worry if it's flashable. He possibly won't steal same model a second time *if* his dealer tells him "that's a worthless model, can't reflash" | 21:07 |
| cehteh | yes .. thats what i already saied, even nokia has no interest in locking it down | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | but there's legions of junkies | 21:08 |
| cehteh | yeah | 21:08 |
| cehteh | i leant that with my JVC laptop | 21:08 |
| jacekowski | insurance | 21:08 |
| jacekowski | that's why i don't care about my phone | 21:08 |
| cehteh | i am pretty sure it ended on a scrapyard | 21:08 |
| jacekowski | if it get's lost | 21:08 |
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| jacekowski | all my e-mails/contacts/calendar are on my zimbra ( exchange like ) server | 21:09 |
| jacekowski | and phone itself is insured by my bank | 21:09 |
| cehteh | no optical drive, not possible to boot from usb or any external medium, encrypted hd and you had to disassemble it completely to reach the hdd | 21:09 |
| jacekowski | as a freebie | 21:09 |
| cehteh | it would be possible but a lot of work to put another (working) os onto it | 21:09 |
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| jacekowski | btw. who want to buy stolen credit card | 21:10 |
| jacekowski | i can contact you with people that sell that stuff | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I get 100records for the buck in internets :-P | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | so why buy a stolen card?? | 21:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | jacekowski, me me me | 21:11 |
| jacekowski | some of them already done a jail time | 21:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, evidence for the police | 21:11 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG51: http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=21385 - is that true? | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: all the police *I* know will rather arest *you* than hunt the guy you bought it from 'for evidence' | 21:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | jacekowski, idk, not working with the government | 21:13 |
| jacekowski | but you are reading local newspaper | 21:13 |
| jacekowski | local internet | 21:13 |
| jacekowski | local tv | 21:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | not really, whois my IP | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm even reading local minds :-P | 21:13 |
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| jacekowski | hetzner | 21:13 |
| jacekowski | omg | 21:13 |
| jacekowski | germany | 21:13 |
| lcuk | jacekowski, i wasnt aware this channel condoned fencing stolen materials? | 21:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | LOL what | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehehe | 21:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | jacekowski, Jordan | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: see :-P | 21:14 |
| jacekowski | route: 78.46.0.0/15 | 21:14 |
| jacekowski | descr: HETZNER-RZ-NBG-BLK5 | 21:14 |
| jacekowski | 20:13 [freenode] -!- MohammadAG51 [~MohammadA@78.46.226.25] | 21:14 |
| jacekowski | 20:13 [freenode] -!- ircname : special | 21:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | LOL fu DocScrutinizer | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 21:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | i knew that bouncer had a hidden reason for it | 21:15 |
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| MohammadAG51 | umm, oh... | 21:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | jacekowski, | 21:15 |
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| MohammadAG51 | whois that one | 21:16 |
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| jacekowski | inetnum: 188.247.82.0 - 188.247.82.255 | 21:16 |
| jacekowski | netname: JO-LINK | 21:16 |
| jacekowski | descr: Zain Data-Jordan | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: nice whois you got there, what's that? | 21:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | my IP | 21:18 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: just whois | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51: te tool! | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ummm | 21:18 |
| jacekowski | ii whois 5.0.5 an intelligent whois client | 21:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, of course | 21:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | just thought you got a compressed output | 21:20 |
| jacekowski | i had a tool that did a lot more stuff | 21:21 |
| jacekowski | including automatic traceroute | 21:21 |
| jacekowski | geoip | 21:21 |
| jacekowski | and was drawing a map based on traceroute results | 21:21 |
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| jacekowski | but it's now on old hdd | 21:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that'd be nice | 21:23 |
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| HtheB | u know what will be nice DocScrutinizer ? | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | say happy ending and earn a kick | 21:25 |
| MohammadAG51 | rofl | 21:25 |
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| HtheB | happy ending! | 21:26 |
| HtheB | :D | 21:26 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 21:26 | |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, may i? | 21:26 |
| *** HtheB was kicked by DocScrutinizer (User terminated!) | 21:26 | |
| MohammadAG51 | nah, nvm | 21:26 |
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| HtheB | hehehe | 21:26 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 21:26 | |
| jacekowski | say power factor and earn a kline | 21:27 |
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| jacekowski | ( freenode antispam bot was configured to kline people saying power factor ) | 21:27 |
| Lynoure | jacekowski: seems absurd... | 21:27 |
| tybollt | power factor | 21:27 |
| tybollt | !!! | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | it's fixed now | 21:28 |
| HtheB | happy ending! | 21:28 |
| tybollt | meh :( | 21:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | HtheB, I'll beg for +o if you say it again and kick you myself | 21:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | and i rarely beg for shit :) | 21:28 |
| HtheB | ahahhaha | 21:28 |
| jacekowski | i never beg for a shit | 21:28 |
| jacekowski | i just go to toilet and do my thing | 21:29 |
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| MohammadAG51 | O_o | 21:29 |
| HtheB | xD | 21:29 |
| HtheB | pwned! | 21:29 |
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| MohammadAG51 | ooh? | 21:32 |
| * MohammadAG51 waits for HtheB to say it | 21:32 | |
| HtheB | say what? :p | 21:33 |
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| HtheB | im rtying froyo now | 21:33 |
| HtheB | nitdroid | 21:33 |
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| HtheB | ghana 1 - 0 vs | 21:35 |
| HtheB | \:D/ | 21:35 |
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| Milo- | what happened to the 'search' utility in application manager? | 21:47 |
| Milo- | don't have that anymore :o | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Milo-: replaced by 'instatnt search' - just type | 21:47 |
| Milo- | ah | 21:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, one of the really significan 'improvements' in pr1.2 :-S | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | (borrow the missing 't' from above, please!) | 21:48 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: ping (or GAN900 :-)) | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ola Jaffa :-D | 21:49 |
| Jaffa | 'lo :-) | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: an 'nice' detail: connection to a charger missing the D+/- short *increases* battery drainage by ~80mA :-o | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I really fail to make a good story out of that. USB activation THAT greedy? | 21:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: maybe interesting for you as well ^^^ | 21:54 |
| SpeedEvil | odd | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | very | 21:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: while same time - no surprise - my charger doesn't indicate any remarkable power being consumed by the device | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: conclusion: BME is completely braindamaged | 21:59 |
| SpeedEvil | The Ireg of the bq24150 is always on the output side? | 22:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: I up'ed 1.3MB log of 10h normal on-charger idling to jrbme docs. You might find interesting. Jumps in device power consumption are caused by me switching on/off the screen backlight (2 or 3 times) | 22:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I've seen similar | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | like 10:49, 11:00 and a third one later iirc | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: lreg? | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, dunno. I'd guess it's always VBUS I that's regulated | 22:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: as long as screen is on, bq24150 never hits the charge-end threshold, and BME does nothing to stop that floating situation (see sequences like 1,2,1,4,2,3,1,-11,5,2,1) | 22:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: the very moment I switched device to 'lock' the bq24150 status changed 90->80 | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | and charging stopped | 22:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | later on BME pbviously decided to re-enable charging, but set Vreg down from 0x8c to 0x80 (= -60mV) | 22:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | which reduced the battery drainage from ~150mA to ~50mA | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | BME is weird | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | nuts | 22:09 |
| jacekowski | what are you using to log that? | 22:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | i2cdump for bq24150, and ShadowJK's script for bq27200 | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | both >> into one file | 22:09 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I don't have any nice docs from battery makers to address this. | 22:10 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: All I know says floating substantially down from 4.2 shouldn't be harmful | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | I have some nice docs from Masushita (iirc) but still can't address THIS :-P | 22:11 |
| SpeedEvil | It's only floating at 4.2 - where the 'end' current is non-zero - which is bad | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 22:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - float at 4.2 - you have a net charging current flowing endlessly through leakage. | 22:11 |
| SpeedEvil | not really so at 4.1 | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, with screen on you get exactly the 4.2V float hazard case | 22:12 |
| jacekowski | well, nokia has a lot more experience in that | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | muhahaha | 22:13 |
| jacekowski | so i doubt they would screw up something like that | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia has experience - in principle yes. | 22:13 |
| jacekowski | from the other side | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite obviously, yes! | 22:13 |
| jacekowski | i saw even bigger fuck ups in bme code | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | This howerver assumes that information is shared into some central knowledgebase, and the writers of the charger subsystem understands and can read this | 22:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: Nokia - for all I know - has no clue at all what's going on in BME. Done by some dozen contractors over ~10 years | 22:14 |
| jacekowski | is there any page where i can leave my findings for other people to use | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what I heard (rumours) | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: join jrbme proj | 22:14 |
| jacekowski | but there is no requirements for it to be in any readable order | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | dump to documents | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME - though DocScrutinizers suggestion is possibly better | 22:15 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: that page has some quality standards | 22:15 |
| jacekowski | that would have to be lowered | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | It does? | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Which bastard put those in? | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | You could just add a 'notes' page | 22:16 |
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| jacekowski | besides, i don't think bme does have a watchdog | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | it looks like it's only upstart watching it | 22:17 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 22:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm intending going over the hardware pages again to make them all saner | 22:18 |
| SpeedEvil | but I got distracted. | 22:18 |
| jacekowski | yeah, i spent a lot of time looking for that watchdog | 22:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Today I have shredded my own weight in hedges | 22:18 |
| jacekowski | and how to disarm it | 22:18 |
| jacekowski | and then i realised that there is no watchdog | 22:18 |
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| jacekowski | btw, does anybody know what is stored in cal? | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | FMTX state | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | fw version | 22:21 |
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| MohammadAG51 | the rest, idk and i don't give a crap :P | 22:22 |
| jacekowski | and, is there any software that reads it | 22:22 |
| jacekowski | i mean just console thingy that can dump it | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | cal-info-tool iirc | 22:22 |
| lcuk_drwho | o_O | 22:23 |
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| MohammadAG51 | cal-tool is all i've got on my device | 22:23 |
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| jacekowski | oO? | 22:24 |
| jacekowski | hmmm | 22:24 |
| jacekowski | if you run it without any options | 22:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20465 | 22:27 |
| jacekowski | --get-usb-host-mode, -u Get USB host mode flag | 22:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: known, but worthless on N900 | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | most probably, except if NOLO... | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: anyway nobody knows how to SET the flag | 22:34 |
| jacekowski | i know | 22:34 |
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| jacekowski | there is cal lib | 22:34 |
| jacekowski | /usr/lib/libcal.so.1 | 22:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | <jacekowski> --get-usb-host-mode, -u Get USB host mode flag | 22:35 |
| Andy80 | hi all | 22:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | showed it to DocScrutinizer before | 22:35 |
| jacekowski | and i saw prototypes for it | 22:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: I did a grep over /etc/* and couldn't find any references to that | 22:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | N8x0 heritage most prolly | 22:35 |
| jacekowski | give me a second | 22:35 |
| jacekowski | i'll disassemble it | 22:36 |
| Andy80 | I'm having some problems with NokiaSDK. I can successfully compile an application for Maemo target, but at the end when it tries to build the .deb package (I suppose) I get this error: Packaging Error: Could not copy '/home/andrea/Documents/sviluppo/msoma-build-n900/msoma' to '/home/andrea/Documents/sviluppo/msoma-build-n900/debian/msoma//usr/local/bin/msoma'. | 22:36 |
| Andy80 | how can I fix this? | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: you're an evil hax0r | 22:36 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i consulted some people | 22:36 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it's legal to that sort of stuff | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure it is | 22:36 |
| jacekowski | if it's for research purposes | 22:37 |
| jacekowski | and educational | 22:37 |
| jacekowski | which it is | 22:37 |
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| ptl | nice | 23:01 |
| ptl | got my smstalk script working! | 23:01 |
| ptl | now it talks all SMS people send me :D | 23:01 |
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| Jaffa | All, I'll spam here: http://maemo.org/community/council/nokia_response_to_mynokia_subscription_in_pr1-2/ | 23:07 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: ping | 23:08 |
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| linuxboy_ | hello... guys I have question to all you maemo expert. I am considering buying a N900... would you recommend it to a Linux geek like me? | 23:08 |
| SpeedEvil | linuxboy_: Speaking as someone who has had a n900 for 7 months, my major annoyance with the device so far is that they were too cheap to put in more than one stylus. | 23:09 |
| xkr47-DI | :) | 23:10 |
| linuxboy_ | SpeedEvil: I see... I heard some rumors about Nokia not supporting the N900.... true or false ? | 23:10 |
| xkr47-DI | yeah hey I just misplaced mine! | 23:10 |
| hardaker | linuxboy_: If you're a linux geek, there is no other phone for you. | 23:10 |
| ShadowJK | indeed, it's perfect for linux geeks because it builds on regular userland, gtk and qt | 23:11 |
| ShadowJK | and x-terminal comes preinstalled :D | 23:11 |
| xkr47-DI | I have had mine for two weeks and I just love it | 23:12 |
| jacekowski | fuck | 23:13 |
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| linuxboy_ | thanks guys... obviously I am aware of the specifications of the N900 and I can imagine what it can do... the only thing holding me back were rumors | 23:13 |
| jacekowski | i might have fucked up my phone | 23:13 |
| xkr47-DI | linuxboy_, shoot! | 23:13 |
| jacekowski | i'm not sure yet | 23:14 |
| jacekowski | but i wrong into wrong place in cal | 23:14 |
| jacekowski | but i written* | 23:14 |
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| jacekowski | hmm, it's booting | 23:14 |
| ShadowJK | linuxboy_, well rumours are rumours | 23:14 |
| ShadowJK | But basically Nokia isn't hiding anything. They're working on a new one, possibly for christmas, and then for next christmas, etc. | 23:14 |
| linuxboy_ | will the next mameo/meego device have a physical keyboard? | 23:15 |
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| ShadowJK | That we don't know | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | Nokia-N900-02-8:~# cal-tool -u | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | enabled | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | ok | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | i have that | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | now just a question | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | what's next | 23:15 |
| ShadowJK | What some people are upset with is that Nokia has a tendency to never backport new operating systems to older hw | 23:16 |
| tybollt | hmm | 23:16 |
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| tybollt | can you get Ovi suite to download maps to the eMMC instead of the add-on card? | 23:17 |
| tybollt | I've lots of space on eMMC but not on the mem card | 23:17 |
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| tybollt | sjk: that's not nokia, that is all corporations | 23:18 |
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| ptl | tybollt: You can do that via a symlink | 23:21 |
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| jacekowski | i hate wireless | 23:31 |
| jacekowski | and wifi in n900 is fucked up | 23:31 |
| jacekowski | everything except n900 works with my AP | 23:32 |
| microlith | powersave modes active on the N900? | 23:32 |
| ptl | n900 works better on my wireless router than my laptop | 23:32 |
| jacekowski | nope | 23:34 |
| jacekowski | disabled | 23:35 |
| jacekowski | i just have like 70% packet loss | 23:35 |
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| * pahartik just found out that USB on "Apple iBook G4" does not provide enough power to charge "Nokia N900" through "Nokia CA-100" when laptop workstation is operating on battery power | 23:39 | |
| nidO | that or you dont have the connectivity driver installed? | 23:39 |
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| * xkr47-DI uses usb networking | 23:52 | |
| xkr47-DI | anyone using gentoo here ? | 23:52 |
| xkr47-DI | any recommended scratchbox etc installation instructions.. right now I'm trying http://geektor.blogspot.com/2009/12/maemo-5-sdk-in-gentoo.html | 23:53 |
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| jacekowski | who want's to try something? | 23:57 |
| jacekowski | and does have usb cable with id pin grounded | 23:57 |
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