IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-06-26

lcuk2RST38h, you are meant to shake the balls up00:00
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alteregoAnyone have any experience with GLES?00:17
alteregoAm I getting confused about what GLES 2 is?00:17
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lcuk2alterego, hum?00:24
wazddon't think it's n900:24
alteregolcuk2: well, does GLES 2 only do shaders? Or can I render with primitives too?00:25
lcuk2alterego, gles is entirely shader based afaik00:25
lcuk2wazd whats that00:26
alteregoOh, I thought I could use things like GL_TRIANGLES and stuff ..00:26
wazdlcuk2: well, since it's marked as c0 :)00:26
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lcuk2alterego, i believe you can use the meshes (how else would you build things up) but the texturing and everything is done in shaders00:27
alteregoOkay, well, I'll see how I get on.00:28
lcuk2wazd, you read far too much into things, hadnt even looked at blurry pixels so closely00:28
alteregoManaged to set the clear colour and get it to render :)00:28
alteregoSo I know I've got it initialized and working correcly now under the Qt SDK :D00:28
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pupnik_nice keyboard there wazd00:30
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wazdpupnik_: Well, it "looks" fine :)00:31
pupnik_no escape key00:31
wazdpupnik_: can't tell how it types though :P00:31
wazdI wonder if there's a need to make these keys so wide00:32
wazdI've used e63 with tiny keys but with proper form - it worked flawlesly00:32
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Corsacpff, why is the updater only presenting details about the *first* update when doing “update all”00:37
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asj_alterego: look up Qt/3D if you're going a lot of opengl stuff, it might be helpful00:37
alteregoasj_: thanx00:41
wazddamn, we have crazy heat in here00:42
wazd26 C at night :(00:42
wazdMoscow moved to California or something :)00:43
jacekowskiit's warm here as well00:43
Corsacis there a clean way to restart hildon desktop?00:44
Corsac(besides rebooting, and killing it :)00:44
MohammadAG51killing it is clean00:46
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Corsacwhat can I kill safely? hildon-desktop, hildon-home?00:46
MohammadAG51killall hildon-desktop00:47
MohammadAG51hildon-home is for widgets only00:47
MohammadAG51killing it repeatedly removes 3rd party widgets00:47
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Corsac17452  1202 user     S    25132 10.2  0.0 /usr/sbin/browserd -s 17452 -n RTComMessagingServer00:53
Corsacthat's a bit too much, sir!00:53
MohammadAG51that's the conversations app00:53
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SpeedEvilCorsac: RSS does not mean anything00:54
Corsacsure but 10% mem is not rss00:54
SpeedEvilget taht00:54
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alteregosilly shell account down time :(00:55
SpeedEvilsorry - what's that from?00:55
Corsacno package?00:55
CorsacSpeedEvil: top00:55
SpeedEvilCorsac: no.00:55
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SpeedEvilCorsac: It's just a python script00:55
alteregoI suppose I should learn about shaders then :(00:56
* alterego starts to feel a bit daunted00:56
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alteregoAnyone know a good tutorial?00:56
SpeedEvilIf you can't install a python script, then to quote the godfather 'you are dead to me!'.00:56
Macerwonder if there is a way to play mkvs on this xbox36000:57
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MohammadAG51well, natively? I doubt it, stream it with TVersity or something :)00:57
MohammadAG51P.S. i'm not responsible for the extra heat from your PC00:58
MohammadAG51my camera doesn't start unless I purge camera-ui and reinstall it01:00
pytherCan I access my home folder from the usb cable?01:01
SpeedEvilCorsac: USS = unique set size - pages that that process has uniquely mapped. PSS = proportional set size - USS+ its share of all the libraries that have been mapped by all processes.01:01
SpeedEvilpyther: not simply using mount as mass storage.01:02
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luke-jrpyther: in theory01:02
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SpeedEvilpyther: you can setup USB networking, and access via sshfs, or whatever.01:02
pytherIf I install ssh server can I toggle the service on/off?01:03
pytherI need to copy my ssh public key to my server01:03
MohammadAG51stop sshd / start sshd?01:03
pytherhmm that would work, does it startup by default?01:03
lcuk2MohammadAG51, you have screwed up your install01:03
lcuk2return your geek card01:03
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CorsacSpeedEvil: still browserd uses 10% of the ram01:04
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Corsacwith nothing running but the widgets01:04
SpeedEvilCorsac: yes.01:04
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SpeedEvilCorsac: err - rather no.01:05
SpeedEvilI'm seeing 13550K PSS - which is somewhat below 10%01:05
SpeedEvilbrowserd does not run widgets01:06
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SpeedEvilbrowserd is - as I understand it the core of the browser, conversations app, 'bookmarks' app, and some other apps01:06
SpeedEvilIt is not - quite - doing nothing - it's preloaded so they will launch faster.01:07
MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, it says RTCOM, so the "10" is all from the convos app01:08
MohammadAG51lcuk2, nooo :(01:08
Corsacwhich is not running atm01:08
SpeedEvilIt's ready to run01:08
MohammadAG51guess I'll have to reflash01:08
MohammadAG51what he said01:09
SpeedEvilyou can stop it.01:09
Corsacwell, killing it will just restart it too, so I guess there's another way?01:09
MohammadAG51dsmetool -k maybe01:09
SpeedEvilI _think_ killing browserd 3 times in three minutes will stop it relaunching, and not dog the device.01:09
SpeedEvilotherwise dsmetool maybe01:09
lcuk2this isnt candyman01:10
Corsac(not that I don't like to have it running, it's just that the device seems less and less responsive, it lags during playback, etc.01:10
Corsacok, maybe it was never intended to last 12 days01:10
MohammadAG51i'd use watch -n 1 killall -9 browserd :P01:10
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SpeedEvillcuk2: Many of the services started reboot the device on a software watchdog if they die too often01:10
lcuk2SpeedEvil, i know, but the way you described it is a bit :D01:11
MohammadAG51how do i check what apps are using audio?01:11
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Corsaclsof maybe ?01:11
MohammadAG51the cam app keeps saying audio in use by another application01:11
MohammadAG51lsof for audio?01:11
SpeedEvilMohammadAG51: stop pulseaudio01:11
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CorsacMohammadAG51: to check what uses /dev/snd01:11
MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, sec01:11
Corsacbut if only PA uses it, that won't help :/01:12
SpeedEvilthat won't help at all01:12
DocScrutinizerCorsac: fail01:12
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pytherWill running sshd eat up more of the battery life?01:12
lcuk2MohammadAG51, check the cam pp you keep deleting and reinstalling isnt actually originally still being run01:12
SpeedEvilpyther: no01:12
SpeedEvilpyther: unless used, it's completely idle01:12
lcuk2do a battery popping reboot and see if normality returns01:12
MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, it didn't help :)01:12
MohammadAG51lcuk2, nope, it's been like this for 2 days01:12
pytherSpeedEvil: ah cool so then I don't need to worry about it :D01:12
DocScrutinizer~ MohammadAG5101:13
DocScrutinizer~ MohammadAg01:13
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, mohammadag is special01:13
lcuk2MohammadAG51, do your friends ever come to you with computer problems and whilst they are showing you the problem it magically vanishes?01:13
SpeedEvilpyther: I have had - as a test - sshed into phone, asking its battery life every 5 mins - and had it last 4 days+01:14
MohammadAG51lcuk2, sometimes xD01:14
lcuk2MohammadAG51, then, give friend n900 and get them to explain problem to you!01:14
DocScrutinizerit's called murphey's law first exponent01:14
lcuk2Corsac, the real reason is because they think logically about the steps and dont shortcut whilst explaining01:14
MohammadAG51I seriously need to fix this though :)01:14
Corsaclcuk2: no, that's because of my good vibrations01:15
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: you broke it, like always01:15
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, I'm not saying I didn't :D01:15
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pupnik_cheers to nokia for making devices with nice keyboards01:26
* DocScrutinizer yawns01:26
DocScrutinizerthey messed up the matrix :-S01:26
pupnik_what is 'the matrix'?01:26
DocScrutinizertha magic thing that makes your kbd work01:27
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DocScrutinizerctrl-shift-k/j can't be distunguished (or similar and even more combos), as they messed it up for no need01:28
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DocScrutinizern-key rollover problem01:29
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DocScrutinizerthey wasted row/col lines on NC, while the qualifier keys had urgently needed their own dedicated wires01:29
LantiziaHey... how can I add a remote calendar on the N900?01:29
LantiziaAccording to   it is possible to sync with a work calendar01:30
Lantiziaover the air01:30
DocScrutinizeror in short: they missed to show me the prototype and get their OK from me :-P01:30
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CorsacLantizia: yeah, over bluetooth with syncml01:32
LantiziaCorsac, Pants :(  So no CalDAV support?01:32
ShadowJKdoes it work for mfe?01:32
CorsacLantizia: no01:32
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: huh?01:32
LantiziaCorsac, Double Pants :( :(   Any app I can add for that?01:32
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: sorry sir?01:32
ShadowJKmail for exchange01:32
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: wtf has kbd matrix to do with mfe01:33
LantiziaDoes CalDAV sound like exchange!?01:33
ShadowJKdockane, nothing.01:33
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ShadowJKsorry, DocScrutinizer: nothing.01:33
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CorsacLantizia: not sure01:34
LantiziaCorsac, Hang on... on the example calendars I've got they all say their "Local"... does that mean if they're "Remote" it just means bluetooth?  I don't even see an option for even adding a bluetooth calendar01:34
DocScrutinizerbah, need offtime01:34
CorsacLantizia: I've opened a brainstorm for that01:34
DocScrutinizermy spam filters are too tight, to remove load off the main processing. So I missed the interleaving lines01:34
ShadowJKShortly after I unboxed N900 I synced it with my previous phone Nokia E75 over bluetooth, and the calendar was imported iirc01:35
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CorsacLantizia: it's not bluetooth calendar01:35
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, yeah that happens01:35
Corsacthere's just one (and only one) calendar which can be sync'ed using syncML protocol01:35
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LantiziaCorsac, so if the Calendar ever did have a calendar listed as "Remote" (since it knows of "Local" ones)... it would be from where?  Bluetooth / Exchange ?01:36
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: quite understandable oops, as you got a highlight on my IRC. So I failed to notice this ping wasn't addressed to me01:36
CorsacLantizia: there's no such thing as remote calendar01:36
LantiziaCorsac, then why list the example ones as Local!01:37
CorsacLantizia: only types are local, synchronised, smart01:37
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I'm honored01:37
Corsacand you only have one sync and one smart ones, afaik01:37
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DocScrutinizerI know to pick the gems01:37
Corsacall the calendars you can create are local01:37
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CorsacI'm not sure what soft will Meego use for calendaring/email, if it's the same thing as Meego Netbook, it's evolution which have support for all that01:38
Corsacbut I'm not sure it'll be that01:38
LantiziaIs it me or has the Search function disappeared in Application Manager?01:38
CorsacI guess it'll either be modest+calendar, or another rewrite in Qt which will have again shitloads of bugs and will misses every useful function01:39
CorsacLantizia: just browse and then type directly01:39
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ShadowJKthere's some evolution components on N900 too01:40
* Lantizia installs GPE Calendar01:40
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Arkenoimkv playback on n900 mplayer just sucks. don't know why :-( tried to watch new futurama season and it failed -- sound out of sync, numerous artifacts..01:44
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microlithArkenoi: mplayer from the repostiroy?01:49
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Arkenoimicrolith, yep. are there any recommended options?01:50
microlithnot sure, but I know that mplayer isn't using the DSP so it will suffer from various issues including audio lag01:51
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:51
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microlithmoreso if your video is high quality and higher resolution than the N90001:52
Arkenoiit is just 720x48001:52
Arkenoiand n900 is 1,1GHz01:53
microlithhow big is the file?01:53
Arkenoi~300Mb, as one may expect for 20min video01:53
Corsacdotblank: grooveshark works pretty fine here too01:54
microlithArkenoi: well I'm pretty sure that mplayer is probably complaining on the console about the CPU being too slow01:54
Arkenoii can upload it to an http server so you may try it ;-)01:54
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microlithI haven't tried many command line options, and h.264 is a seriously cpu intensive codec01:55
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: I'm temped to kick you for this silly statement01:58
Arkenoijust try it :-/01:59
DocScrutinizerI FOR *SURE* will NOT try to overclock my 600MHz rated SoC to 1100MHz >:-O02:00
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DocScrutinizerI rather would try to operate 110V devices on 230V02:01
Arkenoiwell, you may try it on 600MHz as well02:01
Arkenoiactually according to time stats it is just 3-5% in > 600MHz state02:01
DocScrutinizerOr I may understand that as "try to kick me, see what it gets you" :-P02:01
LantiziaPA PING!
pupnik_Arkenoi: just transcode em02:02
Lantizianot work safe :)02:02
Lantiziablame Arkenoi  :)02:02
DocScrutinizerWTF, complaining about artifacts when even memory is way beyond any sane timing02:02
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pupnik_Lantizia: even beautiful nudes are offtopic02:03
LantiziaYOU LOOKED! :O02:03
ShadowJKWell, sound out of sync is what usually happens when there's insufficient processing power02:03
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, everything other works, i had never seen any problems with other video02:03
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: I don't argue with overclockers02:04
infobot"OK, listen up.  This is your CPU."  apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan.  "This is your CPU on overclocking.  Any questions?"02:04
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, this is evil. Kill it!02:05
LantiziaArkenoi, will try your file in a few moments02:05
ptlwith no sauce? Who will want a tasteless fried CPU?02:05
Lantiziapretty sure this should play OK... I've played MKV like this before ok02:05
ShadowJKArkenoi, the limit for MPlayer on N900 is about 512x384 h264, maybe less if there's AAC too02:05
DocScrutinizermicrolith gave the perfect answer02:05
ptlArkenoi: have you tried VLC?02:06
luke-jrArkenoi: my *desktop* can't play HD h.26402:06
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Arkenoiptl: is it already in the extras-devel?02:06
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ptlArkenoi: nope02:06
luke-jractually, it can, if I kill everything else and disable a bunch of post-processing...02:07
DocScrutinizer[2010-06-26 00:51:30] <microlith> not sure, but I know that mplayer isn't using the DSP so it will suffer from various issues including audio lag - for the ones that need a line twice to read it once02:07
luke-jrand enable framedropping02:07
ptlArkenoi: (btw, it's optified)02:07
luke-jrbut my desktop is 2.2 GHz02:07
luke-jrdouble that 1.1 OC'd crap02:07
ShadowJKluke-jr, post-processing is 99% stupid with h26402:07
ptlCPU frequencies are not that comparable across platforms02:07
luke-jrShadowJK: sure02:07
luke-jrptl: not even within platforms02:08
ShadowJKThe post-processing is built into h264, in-loop02:08
luke-jrbut 2.2 is (almost) always much better than 1.102:08
luke-jrShadowJK: that's the post-processing I disable, I think02:08
ptlyes, true.02:08
ShadowJKcore2 is a few factors faster per clock than Cortex A8 :)02:08
DocScrutinizerdamn, use madia player and forget that shit02:09
DocScrutinizermedia even02:09
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ShadowJKluke-jr, yes02:09
DocScrutinizerthe DSP is there for a reason02:09
luke-jrShadowJK: either Intel drastically improved after P4, or ARM sucks02:09
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, well, the DSP codec only does h264 baseline profile, and most files in the "wild" use h264 high profile :)02:10
Arkenoiluke-jr, both ;-)02:10
ShadowJKluke-jr, P4 was worse than P3 per-clock02:10
ShadowJKmuch worse02:10
luke-jrShadowJK: I know02:10
luke-jrmy 800 MHz P3 used to beat out the 2 GHz P4 IIRC02:10
ShadowJKcore2 is just brutal per clock when you compare to P402:11
luke-jrI credit AMD with Intel making a comeback at all02:11
luke-jrIntel always had the resources, they just got lazy02:11
haltdefditched p4 entirely and based the core arch on p3 didn't they02:11
luke-jrI really wish I could run Intel procs native thouhg02:12
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luke-jrthat is, without the x86 emulation layer02:12
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ShadowJKP3 was never dead, it came back as P-M, and then P-M evolved into core and core202:12
luke-jrbut I suppose that layer might include the MMU and such necessary things...02:12
ShadowJKWell.. compilers probably know what instructions are emulated and which ones aren't ;)02:13
luke-jrstill, would be nice to replace it with a simpler instruction set02:13
luke-jrShadowJK: IIRC, 100% of x86 is emulated on the latest Intel designs02:13
Kegetysyou could reverse-engineer the bytecode and write your own ;)02:13
luke-jrKegetys: I wouldn't know where to begin doing that02:13
Corsacyeah, internally they are just RISC02:13
Corsacrisc is good02:13
Corsacrisc is beautiful02:13
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Kegetysmicrocode, not bytecode02:13
luke-jrCorsac: any idea if it's practical to run Linux natively on the RISC core?02:13
Arkenoiwhy intel did not open it?02:14
luke-jrmicrocode is just a kind of bytecode02:14
Corsacluke-jr: it's not available for anyone, asfaik02:14
infobotCorsac meant: luke-jr: it's not available for anyone, afaik02:15
luke-jrCorsac: ?02:15
Corsacluke-jr: the risc is only exposed internally02:15
Arkenoiactually most overdesigned CISC CPUs run RISC-like microcode inside02:15
luke-jrCorsac: with Intel's microcode, yes02:15
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Arkenoiibm Z and even ancient VAX did it02:15
luke-jrCorsac: what if you uploaded a trivial microcode that ignored that limitation?02:15
arachnistluke-jr: x86 was emulated on ibm chips ever since pentiums and p2's02:15
DocScrutinizerwhat are you dudes talking about?? :-o02:15
Corsacluke-jr: you can't02:15
infobotarachnist meant: luke-jr: x86 was emulated on intel chips ever since pentiums and p2's02:15
ShadowJKluke-jr, we never even had linux running natively on the Transmeta core.. and that was a much more radical design than intel02:15
Corsacluke-jr: very few people in the world even know how the microcode is protected02:16
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luke-jrCorsac: you can't just upload arbitrary microcode? O.o02:16
SpeedEvilCorsac: There is an angry bear in there.02:16
Corsacluke-jr: no02:16
Corsacluke-jr: it's encrypted and protected02:16
DocScrutinizerturning X86 into ARM by patching the microcode patch area?02:16
DocScrutinizeror what?02:16
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, modern CPUs translate the x86 instruction set into their own internal instruction set, luke wants to run linux on the internal instruction set02:16
SpeedEvilCorsac: And possibly more important - utterly undocumented02:16
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer: nah, just want to expose the native instruction set02:16
Corsacluke-jr: security-wise, it's not a bad idea though :)02:16
DocScrutinizeryou can't do that02:17
CorsacSpeedEvil: yes, I mean even at intel very few people know about this02:17
luke-jrwhy waste cycles on emulation? :)02:17
LantiziaArkenoi, for me that MKV file isn't even recognized as supported by the Media Player... and mplayer-cli just gives a black screen02:17
luke-jrhow often do we emulate on an emulator? :P02:17
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Doing that would basically mean you would need to make a new code generation engine and complete distribution for each processor.02:17
Kegetysmost likely all different cpu models also have their own internal instructions or at least variations to it, you'd need to reverse-engineer all of them and make special code for every cpu02:17
ShadowJKIt's not wasted cycles really :-)02:17
luke-jrSpeedEvil: sweet02:17
DocScrutinizerCorsac: SpeedEvil: and it's SMALL02:18
luke-jrSpeedEvil: I'm all for a diverse CPU ecosystem02:18
DocScrutinizera fsckng small patch area to patch the rom microcode02:18
* SpeedEvil throws z80s and 8031s at luke-jr.02:18
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I'm unsure.02:18
ShadowJKUnless you use a command that's entirely made up of microcode, in which case there's no "native" op anyway02:18
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: RAM can be faster than ROM02:18
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SpeedEvilAnd given constrained busses, yuou probably don't want to run microcode programs anyway02:19
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* SpeedEvil sighs at his internet falling over again.02:19
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DocScrutinizerthere's a "hardwired" set of microinstructions inside X86 core, that determines how to process one machine opcode from external RAM. And there's a small fast ram patch area to 'overload" particular microcode sniplets02:22
DocScrutinizerthe microcode most probably is VLIW02:23
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DocScrutinizerso no way to expose the microcode to the RAM interface so the opcode pipe and whatnot would read VLIW microcode instead of generic X86 opcode from RAM02:24
SpeedEvilI'm unsure how large the patch area is, in normal functionality02:24
DocScrutinizers/opcode pipe/instruction lookahead and decode engine/02:24
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: so no way to expose the microcode to the RAM interface so the instruction lookahead and decode engine and whatnot would read VLIW microcode instead of generic X86 opcode from RAM02:24
SpeedEvilIf it implements most instructions from uops, then in principle, it could be quite interesting.02:25
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SpeedEvilFor example, there may be no microcode 'ROM' - it may be all loaded from a slow internal ROM to fast RAM in the microcode area.02:25
SpeedEvilAnd you can replace this RAM.02:25
DocScrutinizercheck your firmware drawer in your /boot or whatever, on you 86-box. There's a file called microcode.bin or whatever. It's probably fullsize of the patch ram area02:26
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I agree it *might* be interesting *if* you knew about the particular meaning down to the gate a bit in a VLIW controls. Ack for bootloading from rom to patch ram though02:27
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SpeedEvilAnd this of course neglects the rather large fact that given the complete spec of the microcode, how to code it, and keys to upload the signed file - it would be man-decades of work probbaly.02:31
arachnisti wonder how close to the alpha-axp were the athlon-xp cpus02:34
arachnistat least when ommiting the x86 translation "layer"02:34
arachnistand lack of several registers02:34
ssvbluke-jr: x86 instruction set also works as some kind of code compression (instructions have variable length), so it could be a good thing overall02:36
DocScrutinizersudo get_me_a_cheezburger02:37
ShadowJKinstruction cache02:37
ssvbARM uses an alternative thumb/thumb2 instructions encoding for the purpose of reducing code size, it really helps02:38
SpeedEvilIs thumb actually used on - say - the n900?02:39
SpeedEvilwith gcc02:39
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ssvbShadowJK: right, but but cache sizes are definitely not infinite and not free (increase chip cost and power consumption)02:40
ShadowJKssvb, because they are not infinite, smaller code size becomes faster02:41
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DocScrutinizerthat's the idea of CISC02:41
ssvbbtw, my core2 processor has 4x higher clock frequency than N900, and 16x bigger L2 cache02:42
ssvbguess who is the winner?02:42
ShadowJKssvb, how long does it run on 3.7Wh battery? :)02:43
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ssvbwell, the point is that pure CPU speed is not the only contributing factor to overall performance, cache sizes and memory bandwidth also play a huge role02:44
ssvbespecially if the frequently accessed data set of some application fully fits into the cache for one processor, but does not for the other one02:46
SpeedEvilIn some cases, this can be silly.02:47
SpeedEvilI implemented a _stupid_ little 'language' that just understood operations involved in some sorts of crypto.02:47
SpeedEvil- shifts, adds, xor, ...02:47
SpeedEvilIt was interpreted, yet significantly faster than raw machine code - simply as it fitted in the small L1 cache.02:48
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SpeedEvilAlong with all the working set of the data.02:48
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pwnguinit just seems funny that google does all this crazy optimizations for performance, like dalvik and suspend multitasking when maemo seems to get by on the same hardware without it02:50
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ssvbSpeedEvil: regarding thumb on n900, it has some nasty hardware bugs and is not used02:51
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ssvbcortex-a8 is the first processor to introduce thumb2 support, so it's not very surprising02:51
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ssvband AFAIK omap3 was the first SoC to use it and has an early revision of cortex-a802:52
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SpeedEvilssvb: ah02:53
ssvbhopefully thumb2 has a bright future in the newer ARM processors such as cortex-a9, and the compilers will also improve over time02:54
SpeedEvilpwnguin: Do androids dream of electric shee, or suffer audio skips when installing programs?02:54
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MohammadAG51symbian doesn't stutter when installing apps02:54
MohammadAG51neither does the iPhone02:54
ShadowJKsymbian isn't usable when installing apps...02:55
* SpeedEvil sighs.02:55
MohammadAG51ShadowJK, tbh it is usuable02:56
MohammadAG51ShadowJK, but it closes all apps in the bg :P02:56
ShadowJKwithout programs running what use is it..02:57
SpeedEvilgconftool --dump /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/GPRS/gprs_rx_bytes02:57
SpeedEvilwjhat is the proper form of this command?02:57
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pwnguinSpeedEvil: from what i hear, android isn't very skippy period02:58
* pwnguin wonders if the old renice standby would fix audio skips much02:59
SpeedEvilI tried it - with pulseaudio na dthe media player - and diddn't get anywhere03:00
MohammadAG51shouldn't the stutter have been fixed?03:01
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MohammadAG51i remember someone mentioned a bug report the last couple of days03:01
ShadowJKfixed is relative03:01
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MohammadAG51ShadowJK, we just need the new package to test how "relative" the fix is :P03:02
ShadowJKThe skipping that happens when playing from mmc/sd but does not happen when playing internet streams, with the assumption there's adequate internet bandwidth available, should be fixable with relative ease03:03
SpeedEvilcache the stream03:03
ShadowJKWell the mafw crap needs to cache more of the input file :-)03:03
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ShadowJKSay, 5-10 seconds worth.03:04
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MohammadAG51meh, the fixed package was pulseaudio03:05
ShadowJKsuch skipping issues would also affect internet streams03:06
ShadowJKand I've rarely had internet streams skip due to other reasons than network connectivity03:06
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* SpeedEvil demands flash 12 for n900.03:16
* SpeedEvil sighs.03:16
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microlithflash 12?03:19
microlithfrom the future!03:19
* MohammadAG51 repacks flash 9 as flash 12 and hands it to SpeedEvil 03:21
* nextime should be happy with just a decent web browser for windows mobile...03:21
* ptl repacks gnash for ARMEL as flash 12 and hands it to SpeedEvil03:21
* SpeedEvil wonders about gnash03:22
Muelliswfdec is the new gnash.. no..?03:22
SpeedEvilapt-get install omweather-weather-com-stations-db pomodoro qtwol recovery-tools timeshop webradio-superfly extcalllog icedtea6 impuzzle kanatest mafw-gst-subtitles-applet mafw-lastfm mstatus-applet ncalc omweather-gismeteo-ru-stations-db portabase sib syncevolution-frontend tipqalc ubahn arabic-l10n classicprint led-pattern-editor penpen pypianobar raemote symfonie threetictac ask-ziggy glogarchive hexen2 osso-applet-screencalibration-fix pianobar pyt03:22
Muelliwell. dead too, but still :P03:22
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DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: you feel ok?03:25
SpeedEvilI just screw up pasting occasionally03:26
infobotSpeedEvil meant: I just screw up pasting ooften03:26
DocScrutinizer51I am not worried then03:27
SpeedEvilJust installing the top 40 karmad apps in testing03:27
SpeedEvil(with karma under 10)03:28
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SpeedEvil - this is a simple script using wget to eat the QA queue, and sort by karma, for the apps you have not thumbed.03:31
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tripzeroso i uploaded my pub key but i can't upload :(03:44
tripzero"Permission denied (publickey)."03:44
MohammadAG51give it 15 mins or so03:44
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ptlpolling sucks!03:53
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: will this script collapse into a black hole on doing its job, when you upload it to extras-testing and it gets under the fist ten?03:57
SpeedEvilI should work out how to upload stuff.04:00
MohammadAG51simple, package it, make a source package, upload it04:01
SpeedEvilI don't have scratchbo installed.04:02
SpeedEvilIsn't that required?04:02
pigeondoes anyone use shortcutd with the proxmity sensor?04:02
MohammadAG51too unstable tbh04:03
MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, it is, unless you're epic at making all files manually04:03
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luke-jrMohammadAG51: if it was simple, you wouldn't need to be so epic04:10
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MohammadAG51luke-jr, it's simple, when you have scripts that do it for you04:11
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DocScrutinizer   blaaeerrrrghh04:28
ech0Asuswhat it do?04:29
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dotblankjust got playlist support added04:36
dotblankgrooveshark app04:37
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konfoodotblank: built in ripper? ;)04:48
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SpeedEvilI want something that takes a FM radio and a stream URL, and can mix between them depending on signal strength.04:49
SpeedEvil(also implies a 30s - say - dealy on the FM04:50
konfoothey will never be synchronized04:50
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SpeedEvilOf course not - but you can do that04:51
konfootoo much pain and effort04:51
konfoowhat's the real-world use case, besides pure novelty?04:52
SpeedEvilListening to music without fading in areas of bad FM reception, while minimising transferred data which is often expensive04:53
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konfooeh no benefit04:54
DocScrutinizeryou'll always need to download the stream data, otherwise you'll miss it the moment you need it04:54
konfoogood luck managing those buffers04:55
konfoosliding window hell04:55
SpeedEvilI'm assuming that the stream has some seconds delay over FM - so you can kick off the stream when FM fades, and get a couple of seconds of the past04:55
konfooand we haven't even addressed users that flip channels04:55
konfoosometimes fm has a larger delay over net broadcast..04:56
konfoodepends on the country and network04:56
konfooand how pray tell will you deal with inserted ads04:56
DocScrutinizeryou'll need a 60s buffer for both, and that kinda makes it, ummm strange?04:56
konfoonext topic04:58
DocScrutinizerand how will you fall forward to FM then?04:58
DocScrutinizerprobably it's not completely impossible, but...04:59
konfooone of my old bosses holds the patents on FMx which is basically FM205:00
konfoofrom dolby/nbc labs05:00
konfoothis was a frequent point of discussion05:00
konfoo'improving fm'05:00
konfoodiscussion on bonded interfaces always led to fail05:00
DocScrutinizeranyway, that CA-146A adapter is a beast, no revamp of uUSB plug >:-(05:00
konfoocause in mobile devices, the only principle that works, is KISS05:00
DocScrutinizernot that I had expected anything any better than that05:01
konfoowell to be specific, mobile *transmission*05:01
DocScrutinizerkonfoo: MIMO might work, though not exactly KISS05:02
konfoomimo type transmission works with the right modulation and transport05:03
konfooi.e. dvb-h05:03
DocScrutinizeryou need the right equipment on PHY layer05:03
konfoosaying let's use an ip stream with a leaky bucket and this here non-deterministic fm broadcast... hell to the no05:03
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* DocScrutinizer away hoping for some nice movie in TV05:04
konfooi spent 15 years writing data transmitters for dvb/atsc/ku/ip/whateverelseyouwanttoaddinhere, i have that pat down05:04
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konfoowe tried all those crazy ideas, and that's all they amounted to05:05
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SpeedEvilkonfoo: In my case - no ads.05:05
DocScrutinizerkonfoo: where you used to work?05:05
SpeedEvilkonfoo: I tend to listen to BBC mainly.05:05
konfoodoc: NDS, part of news corp05:06
DocScrutinizerhmm, never heard. nevermind05:06
konfoodoc: they make the security layer for bskyb, directv, etc05:06
konfoo25+ million smartcards installed worldwide05:06
DocScrutinizerso I guess you got your personal whitecard meanwhile :-P05:07
konfoospeed: same here.. i havent noticed ads as being a problem.. but then again local AM in the usa is my alternative which breaks for 15 minutes of ads ;)05:07
konfooyou mean goldcard05:08
DocScrutinizerI mean wildcard05:08
konfoothe names have been changed, etc.05:08
DocScrutinizeryeah and new version of *crypt each other 6 months05:09
konfooyou are mistaking our stellar product with that of cheaper competitors05:09
* konfoo nods sagely05:09
konfoooh heres a great one05:11
konfooi got to one-up some iphones in a demo the other day05:11
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konfoostreaming over 3g.. 'feel free to hit this url with your phones' 'oh look the n900 can decode that, but your iphones cannot. so sorry'05:12
konfooit was a small victory05:12
dotblankwhoa... I can add 20 mins of music to the playlist05:13
dotblankpossibly more05:13
konfoopoor iphone strictly obeys the baseline h264 4.1 flag, even if the macroblocking/bitrate/8x8/cabac/etc is configured to not make use of 4.1 features05:13
dotblankwithout really slowing the device down05:13
dotblankall in memory05:13
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* SpeedEvil sighs at security/DRM.05:16
SpeedEvilI want to be able to play media that I pay for on devices of my choice.05:16
LantiziaYou pay for media?  Oh dear :)05:19
dotblankintsall my app :)05:19
SpeedEvilLantizia: Directly or indirectly through ads.05:20
DocScrutinizerI refuse to use media that's drm crippled in whatever form. I even gave back CD's which weren't really CD-Audio according to <color>-book05:23
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DocScrutinizerand honestly the quality of all that mp3-download shit and youtube/whatyanameit-video is so abysmal, I better be blind and deaf rather than trying to enjoy such crap. 20 years ago my turntable incl level and system was ~2000EUR (4000DM)05:26
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DocScrutinizers/level/pick-up arm05:27
DocScrutinizers/system/moving-coil system05:27
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SpeedEvilmeh - no cpan05:34
SpeedEvilBy DRMd stuff - I primarily mean streaming 'quality' media.05:35
* SpeedEvil is currently trying to install get_iplayer on the phone05:35
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Termanahey hey05:35
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SpeedEvilthe perl configurator thingy05:46
DocScrutinizer51thought I missed a better alternative for moving coil05:47
SpeedEvilNo :)05:47
DocScrutinizer51won't fly. dust is a nightmare with laser05:48
SpeedEvilI know05:48
DocScrutinizer51The C inspired me direction "capacitive"05:49
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DocScrutinizer51though you also could build a optomechanical system05:50
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DocScrutinizer51how would I generate a (possibly input) event to reset the screen dimming timer? any dbus or other msg or whatever?05:59
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DocScrutinizerdamn, this older one N900 now *always* needs a re-plugin to charger to detect it06:04
IceWeweIsn't it just lovely that Nokia is ceasing development on Maemo 5 and opting to not port MeeGo to the N900?06:04
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DocScrutinizeryes it is. Where you've been when we had the party to celebrate it?06:04
IceWeweGotta love they're dedication to a phone that's been out for all of 8 months06:04
IceWeweI'm really here to find out if there's anything newer/better than Diablo for my N800...06:05
IceWeweI avoided the N900 like the plague and am *so* happy I did06:05
DocScrutinizeryou're finished with that now?06:05
IceWeweMer is dead, apparently. The MeeGo wiki for the N8x0 doesn't state that they have a working port...06:06
IceWeweAs far as I know the reason Maemo 5 never made it to the N8x0 series was due to the fact that the ARM chip is too old06:06
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DocScrutinizermeego on N810 is working afaik06:06
IceWewemmmh? really? link?06:06
DocScrutinizerthere's no newer maemo for N8x0 than fremantle. So please /join #meego with your questions06:07
IceWeweI thought freemantle was N900 only...06:07
DocScrutinizererr sorry, diablo of course06:07
IceWeweokay, I'll ask in meego.06:08
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DocScrutinizerask stskeeps06:08
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DocScrutinizerthough I think he's a week off for holiday06:08
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DocScrutinizermaybe #meego-arm is the chan for you06:08
DocScrutinizergonna have to hack my IRC clients to have a small horzontal sub window like the topic one, for join/quit/system msgs (2..4 lines max)06:10
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: where's my python-enabled xchat???06:11
Maceranybody notice the vkb in telepathy/conversation doesnt use enter correctly?06:14
Macerhitting enter sends cr to the vkb06:14
Macerinstead of closing it and sending the msg06:14
Macerfor im06:14
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DocScrutinizerto answer my own question about undimming the screen: dbus-send --system --type=method_call /com/nokia/mce/request string:"unlocked"06:34
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type_twhat is that why is /com/nokia is that some kernel thing / there are no Directories with that name? hello.06:37
SpeedEvilit's dbus06:37
type_twhy the dotted notation   .. seen that in BSD or  mac06:38
SpeedEvilit's dbus06:39
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type_thum ok code me a low-level impementation of iphone app that scratches like DJ scratch when rubbing the touchscreen.06:47
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type_tis dbus related to kernel modules. what comes first a module or a dbus lowlevel. or both . one supports the other or. what api are modules compiled with .07:00
SpeedEvildbus is application level07:01
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dotblanklol what is this?07:02
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dotblankHow did I miss this ars article07:10
mortinibecause it came out 13 hours ago?07:10
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mortinidotblank: you're shocked at this?07:11
dotblankhey im usually faster then that07:11
mortinidotblank: and, stupid apps aren't bad, really. they add to overall app count. and, plenty of android/iphone apps are just as stupid.07:12
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type_ti think namespace of dbus naming should be irc.freenode.maemo  so /net/freenode/maemo..07:44
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mortinimake it happen!07:46
type_twell yes we can . say the obaminators.07:48
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hal9k2010hello all08:18
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hal9k2010i want to buy a nokia n800 anybody can help me with some tips to do a good purchase ?08:24
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Trizthal9k2010; did you try ebay?08:41
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RST38hmoo all08:54
RST38hhello zap08:54
zap_moooorning :)08:54
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hal9k2010 i am looking to some alternatives @ ebay09:02
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hal9k2010my wife use a ipod touch but i like the n800 but dont know what to spect with the n80009:04
hal9k2010media playback , web browsing09:04
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Triztsomething like that09:05
hal9k2010do you have one ?09:06
Triztno, I have a n90009:06
hal9k2010i supouse web exp shoud be better cause of the flash ... right ?09:06
Triztit could, depends on where you surf and the n900 just has version 9, so there are flash sites that won't work in it too09:07
hal9k2010i see09:07
Triztbut as I understand there should be some sort of flash player for the n800 and skype09:08
hal9k2010n900 use maemo 2008 ?09:08
Triztn900 uses maemo 509:08
hal9k2010n900 is a real phone... no only a internet table t09:09
hal9k2010right ?09:09
Triztyes, it's a phone too09:09
hal9k2010ok thanks for the help... i guess i am back to ebay and see if i buy one tonite   :)09:10
hal9k2010have a good one09:10
Triztyou too09:11
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LuciusMareHi, is there available source for the media player in fremantle?09:54
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DocScrutinizernope, afaik10:34
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nguyenchaui have somethings with my ukeyboard10:35
nguyenchauim from viet nam10:35
nguyenchaucan anyone help me pls10:36
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infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.10:42
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JaffaMorning, all10:58
Corsachey Jaffa10:58
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Jaffabarisione: ping11:00
solrizeso it looks like my cheap azz tmobile prepaid voice-only plan lets me send picture messages.  can i send binary files that way too, or does it go through jpeg munging in the network?11:04
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MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, ping?11:24
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ZogGMohammadAG51, \o/11:41
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MohammadAG51alterego, bored?11:55
alteregoAre you going to make me install Perl again? :P11:56
MohammadAG51alterego, nah, just program that yes/no dialog and make a maemo-ask-dialog binary11:56
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alteregoMohammadAG51: that DIvil was requesting?11:57
MohammadAG51alterego, yes, NAO11:57
alteregowhat's that command they use on gnome?11:58
MohammadAG51alterego, err?11:58
alteregoang on ..11:58
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alteregozenity, that's it12:01
ZogGwe have to make Maemo Community license so Nokia can't use our programs =)))12:01
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ZogGyours *12:02
ZogGas i'm not dev. i'm leech and loser )12:02
alteregoZogG I'd prefer it if you put a commercial clause in that just says you profit you pay me :)12:02
alteregoMohammadAG51: zenity, already in extras I believe.12:03
ZogGalterego, how much for an hour, you slutty whore12:03
ZogGalterego, but if your service is not worth it i wouldn't pay a penny12:04
alteregoMohammadAG51: command line program that shows dialogs and stuff. :)12:04
alteregoI was 50 pound an hour when I was employed :)12:04
ZogGalterego how much is your profit after pimp taxes?12:05
alteregoHeh, I'd have to ask my dealer12:05
MohammadAG51alterego, you could write a better app, I want a working prototype in 10 minutes12:06
MohammadAG51C only please12:06
alteregoHeh, what's wrong with zenity?12:06
alteregoAnd, you've not given me any meaningful specs :p12:07
MohammadAG51alterego, depending on it for one theme is an overkill12:07
MohammadAG51alterego, dialog with yes/no button, looks hildony, returns useful exit code12:07
ZogGalterego i want your programs for maemo in pure asm from now on12:07
alteregozenity size: 12212:08
alteregoYou think that's overkill? Or are you asking me to write a binary blob people can just drop into their theme packages?12:08
ZogGyes, we want a blob12:09
ZogGblobs are cool =)12:09
MohammadAG51alterego, nope, I' suggest a binary for maemo, put it on gitorious, we can have it in PR1.12:10
alteregoSeriously, zenity, it should be installed by default imo12:10
ZogGMohammadAG51 what are working on?12:10
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MohammadAG51ZogG, getting rid of alterego's boredom i guess12:11
ZogGyeah, but what program?12:11
MohammadAG51not for me12:11
MohammadAG51check D-vil's thread12:11
alteregozenity allows you to make all sorts of dialogs to, calendar dialoga, ext entry dialogs, file selector, progress, list all sorts12:12
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alteregoThough, zenity file and calendar dialogs are not touch optimized12:13
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MohammadAG51alterego, hmm, zenity looks cool tbh12:14
MohammadAG51alterego, how do I check exit codes? :)12:14
alteregoMohammadAG51: exit code is in $?12:15
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alteregosome invokations output data via stdout too.12:15
MohammadAG51alterego, exit code as in what zenity returns12:15
alteregoMaybe porting zenity to maemo properly, or writing a Qt replacement for Maemo/MeeGo would be good though. Touch optimized.12:16
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alteregoMohammadAG51: zenity --question "Are you well?"; echo $?12:17
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alterego0 means yes, 1 means no12:17
alteregonormal UNIX style exit codes.12:17
MohammadAG51I know, I just don't know how to read those codes :P12:18
MohammadAG51alterego, got easy-debian installed?12:18
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alteregoWhat codes?12:19
alteregoWould you like me to write you a little example script?12:19
alteregoWhich uses the return value meaningfully?12:19
MohammadAG51 GTK2_RC_FILES='/usr/share/themes/MurrinaNightOrange/gtk-2.0/gtkrc' zenity --file-selection /root alterego try it :)12:20
MohammadAG51the defualt hildon theme is so oversized12:21
alteregoSo you want to use the file selector?12:21
alteregoWell, anything that outputs to the screen ...12:22
alteregoresult=$(zenity --file-selection)12:22
h0n3sthow can i change ip address of a connection and set default gw  and dns server manually in my n900/maemo ? i did not find ifconfig and such this tool12:23
alteregoh0n3st: ifconfig is accessible as root12:24
alteregogateway you use 'route'12:24
alteregoand dns well, you can edit /etc/resolv.conf12:24
h0n3stalterego, i know it in my linux box. now i have access to root but i do not how12:25
alteregoh0n3st: it's Linux, Maemo is Linux, if you can do it on a Linux machine, you can do it on Maemo12:26
alteregoIt's the same. you just need to be root on the N90012:26
h0n3stalterego, what is passwd of root in maemo?12:27
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h0n3sti installed xterm on and can access shell but can not su to root12:27
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nidOyou need to install rootsh12:27
nidOby default, root account's disabled12:27
alteregoh0n3st: you need to use gainroot, or do what I did and install openssh which allows you to set the root passwd12:27
* MohammadAG51 ponders if he should enable sudo su12:27
alteregoMohammadAG51: I use ssh for root access even locally for security reasons.12:28
h0n3stnidO, ooom. tnx nidO tnx alterego12:28
MohammadAG51alterego, lol12:28
alteregoAs soo as you start pissing with sudo gainroot you open anyone who's familiar with the device to screw it up :)12:28
alteregoAdmittedly, you don't actually even need root to screw the device cup, as someone found out by editing their ~/.profile? pahahah12:29
nidOwhich they can happily do without root access anyway12:29
nidOor just install rootsh themselves12:29
alteregoYes, good point, that did not occur to me :)12:29
MohammadAG51i use scp locally xD12:29
MohammadAG51to show progress12:29
alteregoI'm currently trying to wrap my head around GLES 2 and shaders :/12:31
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Triztwhats with all the '#' in the ~/.profiled/custom.ini ?12:35
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alteregoTrizt: '#' denotes a comment12:36
alteregoFree form text that is ignored by the past12:36
MohammadAG51// in C12:36
alteregoAnd by past we all know I meant parser ..12:37
* alterego is still not awake12:37
Triztit's just that my  ~/.profiled/custom.ini seems to have 3000+ # in a row12:40
alteregoIn a row or in a column?12:40
alteregoSome people use '#####################' ... To separate sections12:40
alteregoOh, I see, that massive block at the bottom12:43
alteregoTrizt: I'd imagine in that case it is to keep the file at exactly 4096 bytes12:44
alteregoOtherwise known as 4k12:44
Triztyes, but for what use?12:45
alteregoThis is probably because some low level part needs to have access to the file, prior to the operating system booting and that filesystem being mounted12:45
alteregoBut I can't tell you who or why :)12:46
* alterego console fail12:46
Triztyou shouldn't cat binary files12:47
alteregoWhy not?12:48
alteregoI cat binary files all the time.12:48
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alteregoNothing wrong with using cat on binaries, just don't output it to the console.12:48
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Triztsorry for not being specific12:50
alteregoOr being in context, I'm not sure what you were getting at with that statement :P12:50
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alteregoAh, I think I understand all this shader business now ..12:53
alteregoKind of makes sense ..12:53
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Triztto something completely different, I have managed to damage one of my keyboards keys surface, now instead of being black, it's illuminating the world like a lamp :(12:54
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alteregoWoop! I managed to display my first every triangle in OpenGL ES 2 :D13:05
alterego73 lines of C code :S13:05
alteregoOkay, next task will be, move shaders into external data files and create a handler for loading some 3D model format.13:06
alteregoActually, I'm going to use my SRTM stuff.13:06
alteregoThen texture it with possibly open street map or google view.13:07
alteregoGoogle maps even ..13:07
alteregoOr, I could use the Nokia map tile server :)13:07
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alteregoThen, I can take over the world!13:08
alteregoI was thinking yesterday, with the lack of apps in Ovi for Maemo, now is the best time to develop paid for apps.13:11
alteregoBecause people will pay for your app :)13:11
TriztI would ask the Great Leader for some advice how to do that, if I would be you ;)13:11
alteregoWell, I need to get a good idea first :)13:12
alteregoSomething that wont take too long to develop but is worth it.13:12
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TriztI think he has some to share13:12
alteregoWell, I've got a few ideas I need to think more about13:13
MohammadAG51Strobe app :P13:13
alteregoUsing the camera flash?13:13
pupnikn900 price drop \p/13:14
MohammadAG51alterego, yes :p13:14
MohammadAG51controlable speed13:14
alteregopupnik: buy me one! |p/ :D13:17
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alteregoI like how my pictograph looks like it's looming over pupnik's :)13:32
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RST38hHehe, someone has got a picture of the N913:35
alteregoOh really ...13:35
RST38hLooks nice. Four row keyboard is there.13:35
RST38hIt appears to be running Symbian though =)13:35
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crashanddieThis is just scary:
povbotBug 10267: Sometimes when I remove an application a random one gets downloaded and installed automatically13:37
RST38hcrashanddie: bullshit13:37
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crashanddieRST38h: yes master, sorry master, do you need me to do anything master, want me to shut up master?13:38
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crashanddieRST38h: oh, and by the way, piss off? :D13:39
RST38hcrashanddie: haven't decided yet, stand by.13:39
alteregoengadget seems to think it's C series13:41
alteregoBecause it has a C0 on it :P13:41
RST38hwhich sounds like a good logical conclusion13:42
alteregoWhat is the purpse of the 'C' class of devices anyway?13:43
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alteregoDid they ever release a rationale of what N S C etc really mean?13:44
MohammadAG5118+ i'm afraid13:44
alteregolike targetted audience etc?13:44
alteregoSo you've not seen it then: :P13:44
MohammadAG51seen what?13:45
alterego6ou said it was 18+ :P13:46
MohammadAG51why do problems always pop up when X-Fade's away13:47
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MohammadAG51alterego, NSC, yeah13:47
alteregoOh, heh13:47
* MohammadAG51 thinks of a neat trick13:48
MohammadAG51maemo-optify-deb $(CURDIR)/../somefile.deb13:48
MohammadAG51i wonder if it'd work13:48
MohammadAG51quite ironic
Corsacyeah there's a circular dependency in perl/perl-modules13:50
MohammadAG51no, the package is actually missing13:51
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CorsacMohammadAG51: afaik perl-modules is provided by the perl source package13:52
MohammadAG51i know Corsac13:52
MohammadAG51Corsac, i uploaded the package, and I'm not the maintainer13:53
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achipaokay, who said that all N900 boxes are the same...14:03
achipa... cause they aren't :)14:03
psycho_oreoshow many variants you know of?14:12
MohammadAG51i've seen about 6 different boxes on the interwebz14:13
strohiwhere are the differences?14:14
psycho_oreosI've seen only two14:14
MohammadAG51US box has manufacture date, UK box doesn't14:14
MohammadAG51US box doesn't have the 2mm to usb adapter14:15
psycho_oreosthere's a very fancy one which was given to critics or something.. was the opening of n900, and you had to hook it up to a computer, ssh in and answer a question14:15
MohammadAG51hacker's edition i think14:15
psycho_oreosI guess mine would have been the US edition, it doesn't have that 2mm to USB (which was what I saw in that deboxing of a fancy n900) I want that lol14:16
MohammadAG51a heater's better14:17
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psycho_oreosheater? what you cold?14:18
MohammadAG51lol the 2mm-usb adapter melts sometimes14:18
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crsHi, I want to mount my build in memory on n900 with Linux, but all what I can see is sdb1 which is memory card (not build in 32G memory). How can I mount it?14:19
achipaMohammadAG51: well, for starters the complete back side (terms & conditions) is different :)14:19
MohammadAG51achipa, which reminds me, I saw a "this is an ovi services device" box the other day14:19
achipaMohammadAG51: my DDP box has that. The US box doesn't14:20
achipadeveloper device program14:20
MohammadAG51fancy acronyms14:20
achipafancy THREE LETTER acronyms :P14:20
achipaanyway, the DDP box seems to be the same as that of the Amsterdam loaners14:21
achipa(and retail boxes in Serbia)14:21
psycho_oreosyup mine has the same message printed clearly on the box "this is an ovi services device" printed on the bottom of the box14:22
psycho_oreos2nd last line from the bottom lol and it also says,"Registration via SMS required. Operator fees, Ovi Service Terms and Privacy Policy apply."14:23
achipapsycho_oreos: what country is the box from ?14:23
psycho_oreosachipa, I got it from AU, but guessing by what MohammadAG51 said, I guess it would have been US box14:24
MohammadAG51i guess it's a post PR1.2 thing14:24
psycho_oreosmine wasn't shipped with PR1.214:24
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achipamy US box has three large columns of text on the back14:25
psycho_oreoswas something like 1.1.1 or something14:25
achipaEnglish, Spanish and French14:25
achipa(top aligned)14:25
psycho_oreosmine only has English, and two paragraphs of disclaimer.. bottom aligned14:25
MohammadAG51does it have the date?14:25
psycho_oreosnot on the bottom of the box no14:25
MohammadAG51mine has 47/2009, week 47 year 200914:25
achipaMohammadAG51: where should the date be ?14:26
MohammadAG51one of the sides14:26
achipapsycho_oreos: does yours have a clause on the FM transmitter ?14:26
psycho_oreosmine doesn't have any date printed on the outside of the box14:27
achipaMohammadAG51: uhm, not that I can see... one side is missing, though, likely because of a rebate14:27
psycho_oreosachipa, nope, it has A-tick sticker beside the barcodes (where it details the MAC address, etc)14:27
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psycho_oreos"N342 The A-Tick shows this phone complies with all current ACMA standards, including for exposure to radio frequency energy. more information is the inside this package or at"14:30
achipaAU and HK had different launch dates from EU and NA, so are likely to be localized14:30
achipapsycho_oreos: yep, that's an Aussie box, not US14:30
psycho_oreosachipa, gay lol, yet again, unique :)14:31
psycho_oreosyeah I figured launch dates for AU is always far behind EU and NA, it always has been14:31
* psycho_oreos was a little irritated that his didn't come with CA-146C which doesn't require a separate car charger14:32
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achipaStill, funny to see the NA box missing the Ovi clause. I wonder if they are part of the MyNokia operation at all14:33
achipapsycho_oreos: yep, a useful critter, that one14:33
psycho_oreosmine has that message but I was lucky to not to be forced to sign up to mynokia, me old lady's phone tries to sign her up when I tried setting it up14:34
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psycho_oreosachipa, hell yeah when your previous phone was n95-1 (lol horrid version I had)14:34
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pupnikalterego: wait for meego device, then decide14:37
alteregoNot really one for capacitive tbh ..14:39
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alteregoWoo, my first smooth coloured GLES polygon ...14:58
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alteregoThat looks pretty14:59
alteregoI remember doing something similar in OpenGL 1.1 back in the day ...14:59
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alteregoSooo, now what ...15:00
alteregoLighting ..15:00
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aretrfre34how to use scim to input pinyin15:15
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aretrfre34i tried ctr space not works, help15:16
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MohammadAG51wb everyone lol15:26
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MohammadAG51#maemo felt weird with only 17 users in it :P15:28
* ZogG hugs MohammadAG51 15:29
ZogGMohammadAG51 you went to split we staied here15:30
ZogGyou are loser15:30
aretrfre34where i can download maemo packages for using offline15:30
pahartikaretrfre34: ""15:33
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aretrfre34i meant disk image or torrent, it isn't handy to download manually15:36
aretrfre34ok may be this one
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aretrfre34nope i don't need sdk, i need iso or something15:40
aretrfre34like in ubuntu i have live cd, should be same15:40
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aretrfre34infobot: hi15:46
infobothello, aretrfre3415:46
aretrfre34infobot: how to15:46
aretrfre34infobot: wayttd15:46
infobotWhat Are You Trying To Do?15:46
aretrfre34infobot: help15:47
pahartikaretrfre34: Equivalent would be official flashable Maemo image from Nokia...15:47
aretrfre34infobot: help me!15:47
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HoxzerEhm.... maemo doesn't have 'patch' ?15:47
ShadowJKit's probably in the sdk15:48
aretrfre34pahartik:where is it?15:48
Macerla la la15:48
pahartikaretrfre34: ""15:49
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aretrfre34thank you guys!15:52
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Psiis it normal to have "restore applications" as an option in the app manager or is it supposed to go away after you finish restoring all the apps15:53
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* pahartik wonders whether "keyboard panel" of "osso-xterm" is configurable at all anymore16:03
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MohammadAGany ideas peepe There is a problem with the configuration server (/usr/lib/libgconf2-4/gconf-sanity-check2 exited with status 256) ?16:04
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CorsacStskeeps: aha, just noticed, but you're still in the configure summary of unrealircd16:06
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ecksunanyone here who have used CMulticalendar::getEventInList and can explain to me what the vector vcallid are for?16:16
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alteregoGreat, for some reason my service isn't auto starting on startup ..16:21
alteregoIt's been working fine until this last update and I've not changed the upstart script :(16:21
MohammadAGthat should teach you not to argue about installing perl16:22
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alteregodebugging upstart scripts is a pain in the ass because you have to keep restarting the f*cking device :(16:22
MohammadAGdebugging my ubuntu image isn't better...16:22
MohammadAGI have to shut down, boot maemo, change something, shutdown maemo, then boot ubuntu again16:23
MohammadAGnot really lol16:23
alterego:) get a better dev environment :P16:23
MohammadAGI got the touchscreen working16:24
MohammadAGbut it's flipped16:24
alteregoWhy don't you use the N900 emulator?16:24
MohammadAGi.e touching the top part moves the mouse to the bottom of the screen16:24
MohammadAGwhat N900 emulator...16:24
alteregoThe same N900 emulater you use to boot the meego 1.0 image.16:24
MohammadAGthat's not a problem, I can calibrate the screen I suppose16:24
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alteregoI actually got it to boot PR1.216:24
alteregoWell, I got as far as the moving 5 dots16:25
alteregoAnd then a load of init output and it died16:25
alteregoProbably bme related16:25
MohammadAGI still don't get what emulator you're referring to16:25
alteregoIt's qemu, but with a specific N900 target16:25
MohammadAGfigures, how do I get it?16:25
alteregoYou can get it from the gitorious, I had to compile it but it went pretty smoothly and worked great.16:25
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MohammadAGThere is a problem with the configuration server (/usr/lib/libgconf2-4/gconf-sanity-check2 exited with status 256) <-- I guess you don't know how to fix that right? :D16:26
alteregoNope, that could mean anything from my opinion :P16:26
MohammadAGgrr, googling doesn't help16:27
ZogGgoogle is evil16:28
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alteregoI really don't have time to get this to work either ...16:31
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alteregoGot to have a shower and get ready to go out.16:31
ZogGwith chicks?16:32
alteregoLast try, if this doesn't work I'm going to cry16:34
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* Psi waits for openoffice to load so he can see if printing now works16:37
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sobczykhi, I wanted to download virual machine sdk desktop image but there is only server image, where can I get the desktop one?16:38
Psioh, wow, that is the most awesome thing ever. Just setup printer and printed a document over wifi to network printer from openoffice on n90016:39
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Psiyeah, easy-debian chroot + apt-get install cupsys cupsys-client  + http://localhost:631 + select printer from list (it already polled network and found the name)  + supply ppd file  =  AWESOME16:41
mavhcyour printer doesn't accept pdf files?16:42
mavhcmuch easier that way16:42
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Psiit might do, dunno16:43
Psikyocera mita fs-190016:43
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* h0n3st is away: I'm busy16:43
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mavhcnew ones have web interfaces where you can upload pdfs and xps and stuff16:46
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Psii think you might be able to email it pdfs but ive never looked at that side of it16:49
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mavhcdoes solve the whole printer driver and mobile device problem, so it'll be everywhere soon16:51
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MohammadAGF*** YES!16:53
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MohammadAGubuntu running in R&D mode16:53
MohammadAGClock works too :D16:55
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Appiahso you turned a n900 to a clock?16:58
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MohammadAGAppiah, lol screw you17:07
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BCMMany advice on making a car radio tune to my n900?17:14
BCMMit can't be manually tuned, and when aiuto-tuning, it pauses briefly on my frequency and then moves on17:15
AppiahMohammadAG: :)17:16
JartzaBCMM: try fm boost.17:16
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Jartzathat helped for me17:16
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sobczykanyone knows where I can get desktop vmware SDK images?17:19
jacekowskiJartza: it works only on us version of the phone17:19
jacekowskiJartza: eu is on highest power setting anyways17:20
Jartzanot true17:20
JartzaI'm in finland and I can Really Tell The Difference17:20
Jartzamy home stereo will hiss and rattle without running fm boost17:20
Jartzamy car radio wont tune to station without fm boost17:20
Jartza"bullshit" - thanks :)17:20
BCMMi'm using fm boost17:20
JartzaI guess I'm just deaf then :(17:21
jacekowskicat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/power_level17:21
jacekowskido that17:21
jacekowskithat shows current power level17:21
jacekowskiand fm-boost is just doing echo 118> /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/power_level17:21
ticlis the "Swipe to Unlock" screen part of hildon or a seperate program?17:22
jacekowskiand all versions except HK and US have that at max already17:23
Jartzait sais 9817:24
Jartzanot 11817:25
Jartzaand this phone is bought from finland around 3 weeks ago17:25
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JartzaI'm still trusting my ears and my experiences with the fm transmitter17:26
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Jartzanow it's 113 when I'm actually playing something17:28
Jartzabut still not 11817:28
ShadowJKi think 113 is what you normally get if you have no cables attached17:34
MohammadAGfm-boost should raise it to 11817:34
MohammadAG~seen noobmonk3y17:34
infobotnoobmonk3y <~c2b06924@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 16d 2h 32m 48s ago, saying: 'its an app that needs to be used after you've screwed up your n900 normally'.17:34
alteregoSeems there's a bug in our upstart ..17:35
ShadowJKStarting/stopping fm transmitter, plugging or unplugging cables will reset any changes fmboost does17:35
MohammadAGyeah, I use qwerty12's 'mod' so that everytime I start the transmitter fm-boost is run17:36
MohammadAGany gnome techies here? need to run an app at login17:36
JartzaShadowJK: I seem to get 113 with or without power adapter.17:37
Jartzait doesn't seem to change17:37
Jartzaand fm boost raises it to 118. of course that can be done manually too, up to 120.17:37
alteregoMohammadAG: ubuntu?17:38
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MohammadAGalterego, yes, gnome-terminal17:39
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MohammadAGneed to start it at login17:39
alteregoMohammadAG: System->Preferences->Startup Applications17:39
MohammadAGalterego, lol can't use the UI, screen not calibrated17:39
alteregoErm, probably in gconf hang on ;)17:39
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alteregoOr you could use your .xinitrc?17:40
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Jartzaand now it's again 8817:41
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JartzaI have power cable plugged in, and I did disable/enable fm-transmitter17:42
Jartzaand it started with 8817:42
MohammadAGalterego, err?17:42
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alteregoMohammadAG: nvm not sure17:44
MohammadAGI wonder what file ts_calibrate edits17:44
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alteregoApparently, ~/.gnome2/session-manual17:45
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alteregoMAybe look into ~/.config/autostart ?17:46
alteregoYeah, that's what you want :)17:46
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jacekowskiMohammadAG: that's for time17:53
jacekowskiMohammadAG: if you play around with it it will be regenrated sooner or later17:53
jacekowskiMohammadAG: but until it's regenrated your time will be off17:53
jacekowskior it was tz_calibrate17:54
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alteregoYay, got it to work finally :)17:57
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alteregoSeems to be some stupid race condition with pymaemo-optify and upstart :(17:58
e-yeswhat can i use to record sound in maemo?17:59
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MohammadAGjacekowski, ts_calibrate, it's for calibrating the screen18:01
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Venemohi all18:20
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dotblankVenemo, Hi18:26
Venemohey dotblank! :)18:31
VenemoI see you've updated your app18:31
Venemoit is good that it now has a desktop icon18:31
dotblankyup :) is there a way to make it appear in the app manager?18:32
dotblankliek the other applications do?18:32
eitamaHey Venemo18:32
Venemohey eitama!18:32
Venemodotblank why, it doesn't appear?18:32
dotblankVenemo, well the icon doesn't, but it is listed18:33
MohammadAGdotblank, encode it18:33
dotblankMohammadAG, to what?18:33
MohammadAGuuencode -m icon.png icon.base6418:34
dotblankMohammadAG, oh nice!, thank you18:34
MohammadAGyw :)18:34
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MohammadAGhow do I know what node (in /dev) my mouse is using?18:37
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MohammadAGoh nvm, dmesg helped18:37
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Venemosorry, my machine freezed... :D18:39
ptlYour apologies are accepted.18:39
eitamaI dont know, I'll have to think about that ptl18:40
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MohammadAG#ubuntu is a waste of freenode load18:42
Venemodotblak: so, your app doesn't show up in the app manager?18:43
ptlto show in the app manager it must be in the user/ section18:43
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Venemomy app is displayed in the app manager, but it doesn't appear in the desktop category18:44
Venemohere is the control file:18:44
Venemoit is set to user/Desktop18:45
Venemowhat's the issue?18:45
ptlI dunno :(18:45
Venemoit is listed in "other" in the app manager18:46
Venemothe other issue is that the changelog is misinterpreted18:46
Venemothe dates in the package details page are wrong18:46
ptlhave you tried user/desktop instead of user/Desktop ?18:46
Venemoptl: not yet18:47
Venemoptl: good idea, however18:47
ptlI've seen some widgets using apt-cache show here and they all show user/desktop in all lowercase18:47
Venemookay :)18:47
Venemoptl: thanks :)18:48
Venemoptl: do you have an idea for the changelog, too?18:48
MohammadAG<Venemo> it is set to user/Desktop18:48
MohammadAGit's user/desktop18:48
MohammadAGbah, ptl beat me to it18:48
ptllemme see the changelog18:48
dotblankVenemo, its shows in app manager just no icon but that will be fixed soon18:49
MohammadAGVenemo, why isn't there an i386 build?18:49
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VenemoMohammadAG: I don't know how to create one18:49
ptlI dunno18:49
MohammadAGVenemo, debian/control, arch is set to armel only18:50
MohammadAGset it to all and an X86 version should be built18:50
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VenemoMohammadAG: yes, the people in here told that I should set it to arm18:50
VenemoMohammadAG: what is the correct value I should set it to?18:51
dotblankVenemo, silly people!18:51
Venemodotblank: lol :D18:51
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smackpotatwhens is the  first arm mego device thats not a phone coming out18:52
MohammadAGVenemo, why did they tell you that?18:53
MohammadAGdid it fail on X86?18:53
MohammadAGoh and brb, going into Ubuntu18:53
smackpotati want so much to upgrade from my n81018:53
VenemoMohammadAG: no, it didn't fail. They just told I should set it to "arm" (by default it was "any"), and I believed them18:53
ptlsmackpotat: Q3, it will be a chinese iPad-like called NPad18:54
ptlsmackpotat: search for it on tmo and you'll find18:54
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ptldid anyone try the new version of mycontact? The version which assigns custom ringtones to groups and contacts?18:55
ptlsmackpotat: tmo == talk.maemo.org18:55
Venemosmackpotat: there are rumours about a Nokia-branded one, but no proof as of now18:55
smackpotatwho knew18:55
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bactiusI got a problem since installing fmms. I wrote about it here two days ago but had to quit and have since then been flashing my N900 and re-installed fmms, but the problem reoccurred. I cannot visit web pages.19:09
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bactiusI don´t know if it is my provider who sends the following web page message: "Error: Requested content 'webpage' cannot be accessed. You do not have access to the site."19:11
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bactiusbut i guess it is.19:11
bactiusI can send and recieve mms, chat through gtalk,facebook, irc, listen to web radio and so on.19:13
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ptlMyContacts really works. Cool.19:16
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pytherHow can a toggle numlock? I want to type numbers without having to press the arrow key everytime19:22
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SpeedEvilpress blue thrice19:22
SpeedEvilor is it twice19:22
SpeedEvilit's twice19:22
pytherahh cool19:23
pytheris there a guide on using the keyboard more efficiently that you might know of?19:23
SpeedEvilI find pressing the keys with my thumbs works.19:24
SpeedEvilGAN900 needs to publish a speed-typing-course.19:24
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GAN900Practice, practice, practice!19:24
pytherI meant more of like shortcuts a stuff that toggle different function on the keyboard19:25
SpeedEvilWhen my laptop died for a week, I went from maybe 15->30wpm19:25
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DocScrutinizerGAN900 is outstanding, no practice will bring you into his league19:27
MohammadAGheh I'm on 58WPM XD19:28
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DocScrutinizeri am to as i us nly max thre chr wrds, thts isy19:29
DocScrutinizerdo TLA's count as 3 words? :-P19:29
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, pick 1 min, test instructions, works on the N900, I got 58 adjusted19:31
pytherTweaker + Alarmed is perfect19:31
DocScrutinizeralarmed is great. Can you delete templates though? or alarms?19:32
pytherptl: with mycontacts are still able to the name next to the picture (normal contact app) or is it the picture only (as like in the screenshot)19:33
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SpeedEvilonly 20wpm here - but I need to cut my nails.19:34
DocScrutinizerI'd bet GAN900 has 200WPM19:36
MohammadAG62/4 :P19:36
MohammadAGat least that's what he got when I 'challenged' him19:37
SpeedEvilAlso - my typing is faster when I haven't spent 4 hours shredding branches19:37
DocScrutinizermy typing will speed up with a nice coffee... so bbiam19:37
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DocScrutinizerbtw bme seems to do quite some weird stuff (like reducing bat reg volt by 60mV), but nothing really smart or complex. I.E it doesn't detect end of charge by monitoring bq27200, instead it floats forever when you keep screen on during charging19:42
ptlDoes anyone know how to log SMS strings with dbus-scripts?19:42
ptlThere was an old message from Matan saying he'd implement it but I didn't see how (yet).19:43
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marcusHow do you add Conky to the desktop on n900?19:46
marcusI have Conky installed as an app.19:46
pytherptl: ping19:47
strohimarcus, maybe you must add it to you desktop19:48
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marcusstrohi: Could not see it in Widgets.19:48
ptlpyther: pong --- as far as I know, you can show text-only contacts too, but I have not explored it that much19:48
ptlpyther: I am trying now to find out how to get SMS messages with dbus-scripts, if possible at all19:49
pytherahh ok, cool thanks, the group feature can be really useful to me19:49
alteregoptl, yes, it is possible.19:50
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ptlalterego: how? the dbusscript wiki page says it doesn't handle complex types (arrays, which is the SMS message) yet19:51
ptlbut on the other hand there are posts from Matan in May where he says he'll do it19:51
alteregoUse python19:51
alteregoOr something else.19:52
ptlwith dbus-scripts?19:52
alteregoI don't know what dbus-scripts is. Some dbus-send/monitor shell script support?19:52
DocScrutinizerfriggin useful19:53
alteregoInteresting, well, I'd still do it in Python.19:53
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alteregodbus signal processing requires a main loop, it's pretty hard to do that in pure sh ...19:55
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: have you worked out as yet why bme is polling at 1hz  when charging?19:55
DocScrutinizerno idea19:55
alteregoSpeedEvil, probably status info?19:55
cehtehthe battery may explode when you overcharge it one second too long :P19:56
Venemomarcus: install Sticky Notes instead19:56
DocScrutinizercehteh: won't happen though, as bq24150 doesn't overcharge the cell19:56
marcusVenemo: For watching system info?19:57
cehtehwell dunno .. maybe ask nokia for the source ....19:57
cehtehreally some things are just unnecesary stupid19:57
Venemomarcus: huh, sorry... I mi-interpreted it for Conboy... or whatever19:57
DocScrutinizercehteh: been there, done that. No progress19:58
cehtehhow predictable :P19:58
marcusVenemo: Aha (:19:58
cehtehwhat controls the screen brightness btw? dsme?19:59
cehtehbut i am bit annoyed that this isnt open source20:00
DocScrutinizercehteh: dbus-send --system --type=method_call /com/nokia/mce/request string:"unlocked"20:00
cehtehsome adaptive algorithm which learns by users hints would be cool and not really hard to do20:00
marcusWhat does Autolock do? Is it like after 5min (user defined) then it locks and you have to use the PIN code?20:01
marcusOr is it a custom code?20:01
Venemois there a way to tell how many times have my app been downloaded?20:01
DocScrutinizercustom code20:01
marcusDocScrutinizer: Okay, thanks!20:01
marcusWhat is current lock code then?20:01
marcusAha, a five-digit code.20:02
cehtehany length20:02
Venemomarcus: every Nokia device's default code is 1234520:02
alteregoVenemo once it's in extras yeah, it's on the product page.20:02
marcusOh (:20:02
cehteh12345 is just the factory default20:02
cehtehyou can change it20:02
marcusYou guys find it usefull? The lock20:02
Venemoalterego: but no way from devel? okay :)20:02
alteregoneah, not from devel.20:02
Venemoalterego: btw, I added yo to the credits section of the sticky notes thread20:03
DocScrutinizermarcus: YMMV20:03
Venemoalterego: your idea works brilliantly in there :)20:03
cehtehi set mine to 1 hour just i case i really leave the device laying around20:03
cehtehsome better locking ting would make it more useful20:03
cehtehaka when moving (accel) then dont lock it20:03
DocScrutinizermarcus: be aware there is NO way to recover from a forgotten lockcode, other than Nokia care center20:04
cehtehwhen in reach of home wlan (or by gps position) then dont lock it either20:04
cehtehbut lock it when laying still away from home20:04
cehtehDocScrutinizer: not really, its stored on the emmc and i had some bricking which erased the code20:04
DocScrutinizerduh, that's new20:05
Venemocehteh: OMG!20:05
cehtehdunno where its stored but i dont think its pretty secure20:05
cehtehwell plain reflashing will ask for the code or?20:05
Venemocehteh: you should report this as a bug if it is really true20:05
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cehtehVenemo: i cant reproduce it to be sure enough, but i am quite sure that it happend to me20:06
Venemocehteh: still, it is a bug.20:06
cehtehi dont care .. i am rather considering to use a encrypted FS20:06
DocScrutinizercehteh: can't reproduce??20:06
cehtehthis device has no much security, take it20:07
cehtehremember yesterday i found an email inbox from some other person on my device (backup)20:07
Venemocehteh: omg.20:07
cehtehthe first device i bought was from amazon warehouse deals... that was the former owners email inbox20:08
cehtehmodest cache20:08
cehtehhe delteted everything .. at least he thought20:08
Venemocehteh: lol20:08
DocScrutinizerthis device has better security than anything else I found for mobile equipment so far (except of password generating dongles :-P)20:08
cehtehwell when i send it back i really wiped the emmc20:08
cehtehDocScrutinizer: yeah but still there are some things which are still not optimal20:09
cehtehhas the power-kernel dmcrypt support?20:09
cehtehmaybe i shall try that20:09
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vldcnstX-Fade: there?20:10
cehtehbut still feeding the key and retaining it for use is still some usability problem20:10
cehtehso i dont consider such a device really secure20:10
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cehtehif you encrypt the FS then you want that someone who steals it has no access to it .. but you dont want to type in a 15 char passphrase every time you use it20:11
Venemocehteh: then what is your proposed solution?20:12
cehtehdont store confidental things on the device20:12
Venemocehteh: agreed20:12
cehtehcausual things may be hidden well enough20:12
marcus_If_ Flash 10.1 would come to n900, would that "require" a pr1.3?20:12
marcusOr a simple update?20:12
Venemomarcus: simple update20:12
marcusVenemo: Good.20:12
GAN900I think20:12
GAN900unless MicroB needs some changes20:13
Venemomarcus: but for what we know about Nokia, they would release it in a new PR, anyways20:13
GAN900But that could be shipped as PR1.2.120:13
cehtehwell maybe flash 10.1 comes to fennec earlier .. then its a simple update20:13
VenemoGAN900: agreed20:13
marcusVenemo: Exactly.20:13
cehtehhey and today i experienced the great new firefox tech .. plugins in processes20:14
cehtehneat thing .. browser crashes, plugins stay running"20:14
Venemocehteh: lol20:15
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cehtehbtw anyone of you using the power-kernel and maep? .. i get reproducible crashes (kernel) even without overclocking and all default20:16
cehtehah ok20:18
DocScrutinizercehteh: Kw did a fully encrypted secure system20:18
cehtehDocScrutinizer: my point is usability, not technical possibility20:18
DocScrutinizerand seems it's not even noticeably slower20:18
DocScrutinizercehteh: where is the usability problem?20:19
cehtehi have most computers encrypted now there is no big performance penality20:19
cehteh(mostly not noticeable)20:19
cehtehwith a underpowered processor and not enough ram for much caching like the n900 this might be little diffent but may work still20:20
Venemocehteh: anyways, what is your job that you have to store such sensitive information?20:20
cehtehDocScrutinizer: i want to protect the device against someone stealing it and has access to my data20:20
Venemocehteh: or just good ol' paranoia?20:20
DocScrutinizerthat's the plan20:20
DocScrutinizerand Kw did it20:20
DocScrutinizerso again20:21
DocScrutinizercehteh: where is the usability problem?20:21
cehtehbut since this device is always on someone stealing it has instant access unless i add the password check and locking there20:21
cehtehbut then locking and unlocking with a PW isnt comfortable20:21
cehtehand next you have to unlock it often in public places where one can spy the pw20:21
Venemocehteh: someone is working on securing by face-detection20:22
DocScrutinizercehteh: shut down the device when treated in any way other than the one "secret" correct one, when unlocking the screen20:22
cehtehto complicated (and easy to cheat unless you have *very* sophisticated algortihms)20:22
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: i meant Venemo about face recognition20:23
cehtehthe shutdown may work20:23
cehtehbut still not protection against directed attacks where someone spies you how to unlock it20:23
cehtehand still you do some slip when you are in a rush and have to check the train and miss it because your phone just shut down and you have to reboot20:24
cehtehthats still a usability problem20:24
cehtehno i dont have a solution to it, but i want to point out that technical a lot things are possible but they all have some cost20:25
DocScrutinizercehteh: the trick is to have absolutely naturally looking unlock 'secret'. lile e.g. holding and moving the device in a certain way. or clicking on the first "y" char on screen20:25
DocScrutinizeror pretending unlock, but expecting a certain delayed action like starting a certain app for first user inteaction "after" unlocking20:26
cehtehDocScrutinizer: yes .. but imagine you are in a train (which vibrates and accelerates or whatever) then this holding/moving may fail20:26
cehtehthere are clever ways .. click on the pets you know or whatever20:26
cehtehstill *any* such thing buys from the usability in one or another way20:26
DocScrutinizerthe delayed action two-step unlock is a very secure approach20:27
cehtehsome may be easy or acceptable, but nothing comes free20:27
DocScrutinizercehteh: there's no devices yet with built-in micro-DNA-analysis via device's surface, that can tell for sure it's you without bothering you to care about authentication at all20:28
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ptldoes anyone has a python function that correctly converts the array received from DBUS's SMS intercept to a string?20:29
DocScrutinizercehteh: so yes, authentication for security comes at the axpense of some sort of... authentication action20:29
ptldeoctify() in pende's sample script doesn't work for accented messages.20:29 my n900, which has been on charge all day, just freaked out (BINGBINGBINGBINGBINGBINGBING) and shut down20:30
* w00t_ wonders if that is a bad sign20:30
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vldcnstw00t_: he probably wants your attention. you do know he's not something you buy and put on a corner.20:31
DocScrutinizercehteh: there's yjust one thing you could do: honeypots. Have an app named "MyBankAccounts" that actually detonates the device when started20:31
w00t_vldcnst: he gets plenty of love and affection20:31
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vldcnstw00t_: well that bingbing says otherwise.20:32
vldcnstw00t_: it was probably a suicide attempt.20:32
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w00t_no, suicide is when it tries to fly off the windowsill it's sitting on :)20:32
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DocScrutinizerw00t_: maybe on_charge doesn't mean it actually charged? mine needs a double-plugin action every time now, otherwise charger not detected20:33
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w00t_so long as it isn't a sign of my USB port dying..20:33
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DocScrutinizerw00t_: regular bat_flat shutdown behaviour, nothing particularly uncommon20:34
w00t_DocScrutinizer: i'd say it's a bit more uncommon when it's been sitting happily on charge for some hours with next to no usage apart from the odd app test20:34
DocScrutinizerw00t_: see above20:35
w00t_DocScrutinizer: I did see, but.. it doesn't make a great deal of sense20:35
cehtehDocScrutinizer: can you do that with the battery controler? :)20:35
w00t_charging LED was working, status area had charging indicator20:35
DocScrutinizercehteh: huh?20:35
cehtehdetonate :)20:35
DocScrutinizerw00t_: then it actually makes no sense20:35
vldcnstw00t_: suicide attempts... no food apetise... ugh, you two need a professional help! /jokes off20:35
DocScrutinizercehteh: alas (or thank god) no20:36
cehtehwell maybe setting the vcc high enough to fry the device will already do and prolly works20:36
cehtehdunno how well the cpu protects itself20:36
DocScrutinizercehteh: but meanwhile I learnt how to fry your SoC, if that's good enough for you20:37
cehtehhah :)20:37
DocScrutinizerfry-app will be available on OVI store, for 49$, signed for your RSA-key and IMEI20:38
DocScrutinizeras closed blob of course20:38
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DocScrutinizerno free trial version :-P20:40
* cehteh offers $49 to the first one who straces it on his device :P20:40
cehtehwell i think it shouldnt be too complicated to attempt and maybe even succeed to fry the SoC20:41
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cehtehthere are plenty voltage bits .. and as root you just poke the right thing20:42
cehtehand you told about the other glitch on the design some time ago20:42
DocScrutinizerthere's several ways that are more or less documented. and a few undocumented really nasty ones I found, which are due to Nokia EE messed up things ;-D20:42
DocScrutinizeryes, for example that other glich20:43
cehtehyeah .. some may be just tries .. with a fair chance to succeed20:43
cehtehbut i will (dont want to) never find out20:43
cehtehbtw is the "IamHere" author sometimes here?20:45
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cehtehthe app "IamHere"20:45
DocScrutinizernever heard of IamHere20:45
cehtehwhich phones home when the device gets stolen20:46
cehtehwith pics from both cams and gps coords20:46
cehteheither per sms or email20:46
cehtehyou activate it with sms too20:46
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DocScrutinizerpretty useless20:46
ptlbut the source is not on packages.maemo.org20:46
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cehtehi dont use it, makes no sense in my current setup20:46
cehtehbut i think it could be improved a bit20:47
cehteh(to become little more useful)20:47
DocScrutinizermakes no sense with current thiefs' setup20:47
cehtehturn off phone as soon as the stolen it?20:47
cehtehreplace SIM?20:47
cehtehthe later is accounted for ..20:48
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DocScrutinizerwe discussed that ad nauseum at OM-community. Usually a thief removes battery and SIM immediately after theft20:48
cehtehit explicitly sends out a notice when someone replaces the sim20:48
cehtehwell yes but at some point he (or his buyer) has to turn it on again20:48
DocScrutinizerfor flashing only20:49
DocScrutinizeror without any sim at all20:49
cehtehi doubt that 'causual' thiefs flash it20:49
DocScrutinizerhmm, ok20:49
cehtehi mean i think of the junkie who want to get his next shot20:49
DocScrutinizerbut that's more likely the "thief" that found the device you lost in a pub, and is trying to find out to whom to return it20:50
cehtehand i am not that much interested in the thief but more where the device ends20:50
DocScrutinizercehteh: those are exactly savvy of how to deal with SIM threat20:50
cehtehDocScrutinizer: well the "i am here" app detects sim changes and actually gets armed by that sending out SMS and email then20:51
DocScrutinizerremove sim and bat, and sell the device plus sim and bat in a bag to a rogue dealer who knows how to handle it20:52
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cehtehemail (and thats my objection) is a bit useless because it has to connect to the right mailserver with the rightcredentials20:52
DocScrutinizerdealer does reflash then20:52
cehtehwell we need some way to disable reflashing20:53
DocScrutinizerooh yeah20:53
cehtehshould be doable .. hey isnt nolo free .. couhg20:53
* DocScrutinizer mumbles swearwords20:53
MohammadAG51what if the i am here app fucks up init?20:53
cehtehshht :P20:53
* MohammadAG51 speaks DocScrutinizer's swearwords20:53
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cehtehdunno if dealers reflash it .. too much work20:55
MohammadAG51yeah, and it takes soooo much time...20:55
* DocScrutinizer sends a 3kg burg-waechter hanglock to cehteh - "here mate, put that to your N900, and maybe to your part of body you never want to lose, as well"20:55
cehtehthey just resell it anonymously on a bar/discoteque20:55
jacekowskicehteh: you look like you never bought a stolen phone20:56
cehtehjacekowski: exactly20:56
jacekowskicehteh: wherever you get it from - phone is always wiped20:56
jacekowskiimei number is changed20:56
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cehtehhow do you know? :)20:56
jacekowskii bought couple stolen phones20:56
MohammadAG51he's a dealer, doh20:56
jacekowskii know people who sell stolen phones20:57
jacekowskii know people who steal phones20:57
cehtehnames, addresses .. call the police!20:57
MohammadAG51dude, move that mirror away from your face :P20:57
jacekowskicehteh: why?20:57
DocScrutinizeraah, I mentioned we discussed that ad nauseum at OM-community, and found it's completely useless, did I?20:57
jacekowskiin that way i know where to ask when something mine goes missing20:58
MohammadAG51jacekowski, what if someone steals your phone20:58
MohammadAG51nvm >.<20:58
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luke-jrjacekowski: get evidence. then the police.20:59
cehtehDocScrutinizer: well, the only thing i would be worried about is the data on the phone, and i saied earlier already, dont put any confidental stuff on the phone20:59
luke-jrall it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing20:59
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jacekowskiluke-jr: as i said, i don't care about other people20:59
lcuk2cehteh, one persons "private" number is enough20:59
cehteheven if a dealer just wipes it and doesnt try to recover the datza20:59
jacekowskiluke-jr: i care about myself20:59
MohammadAG51selfish bastard20:59
jacekowskiluke-jr: and thing as it's now is better for me20:59
cehtehlcuk2: well thats unavoidable20:59
cehtehbut for example the ssh keys i have on the phone all have good passphrases and no ssh-agent21:00
* MohammadAG51 downgrades lcuk2 to lcuk21:00
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lcuk\o thanks MohammadAG5121:00
* lcuk has sand everywhere21:00
MohammadAG51lcuk, anytime :P21:01
DocScrutinizeris that a new security measure21:01
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jacekowskigoing back to security in a phone21:01
lcukthe slider of the n900 makes the worst noise ever when you get sand in it21:01
jacekowskionly thing would be disabling flashing21:01
jacekowskibut if it's made public21:01
jacekowskiit will be worked around21:01
DocScrutinizerSecure-it And Nobody Dares21:01
cehtehat least some pin-query before flashing21:01
lcukthe one thing most criminals wont know how to do is reflash21:02
MohammadAG51or even better, a passphrase to disable flashing21:02
lcukthey could play21:02
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MohammadAG51lol lcuk +1 on that21:02
cehtehjacekowski: if you put that early in the bootloader its not easy to work around21:02
jacekowskiMohammadAG51: what if you forget passphrase21:02
jacekowskicato`: cable21:02
lcukbut looking at the amount of real users who cant flash..21:02
jacekowskicehteh: cable*21:02
MohammadAG51jacekowski, still better than disabling flashing altogether...21:02
jacekowskijtag/serial cable21:02
cehtehdisable that :)21:02
MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, said he didn't find a jTag port21:02
jacekowskiit has to be there21:03
MohammadAG51find it21:03
cehtehthe connectors under the battery are no jtag?21:03
MohammadAG51no, they're serial ports21:03
jacekowskiit might be fbus/mbus21:03
cehtehi tought that jtag, usb and serial21:03
jacekowskior something21:03
jacekowskibut anyways21:03
jacekowskithere is always way of flashing the phone21:04
cehtehwell isnt there some way to do jtag over serial?21:04
DocScrutinizerIf you fail to flash as you forgot the passphrase, the go to a rogue dealer. He has the genuine means to work around it :-P21:04
jacekowskicehteh: no21:04
jacekowskiand if it's only one phone that is locked21:04
MohammadAG51cehteh, even if you do, no one knows the port details21:04
jacekowskithey will just throw it far far far away21:04
cehtehjacekowski: technically you could lock down a SoC well enough21:04
jacekowskicehteh: you can't21:04
cehtehbut i am quite sure nokia has no interest in that21:05
jacekowskicehteh: even tpm chips has been broken21:05
DocScrutinizerIMEI changing is crypto-secured on almost every phone of last ~8years I know of. Criminal dealers know how to change it nevertheless21:05
cehteh"well enough" means not absoluteky21:05
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lcukjacekowski, to be fair, that involved lapping and melting the composite stuff around it and is pretty much out of bounds to regular hackers21:05
cehtehjust well enough that the efforts of reflashing are over the price you get for selling it21:05
lcuk(tpm hacking)21:05
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jacekowskilcuk: but somebody will reverse it and publish21:06
DocScrutinizeraah, I mentioned we discussed that ad nauseum at OM-community, and found it's completely useless, did I?21:06
jacekowskilcuk: and then everybody will know how to flash it21:06
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jacekowskiif you are worried about your data make a backup21:07
cehtehjacekowski: when the SoC has no data input open for flashing it has no data input open to do so21:07
jacekowskiand use encryption21:07
jacekowskicehteh: nokia is using generit TI soc21:07
DocScrutinizergentlemen, the occasional jumkie stealing your phone won't worry if it's flashable. He possibly won't steal same model a second time *if* his dealer tells him "that's a worthless model, can't reflash"21:07
cehtehyes .. thats what i already saied, even nokia has no interest in locking it down21:07
DocScrutinizerbut there's legions of junkies21:08
cehtehi leant that with my JVC laptop21:08
jacekowskithat's why i don't care about my phone21:08
cehtehi am pretty sure it ended on a scrapyard21:08
jacekowskiif it get's lost21:08
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jacekowskiall my e-mails/contacts/calendar are on my zimbra ( exchange like ) server21:09
jacekowskiand phone itself is insured by my bank21:09
cehtehno optical drive, not possible to boot from usb or any external medium, encrypted hd and you had to disassemble it completely to reach the hdd21:09
jacekowskias a freebie21:09
cehtehit would be possible but a lot of work to put another (working) os onto it21:09
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jacekowskibtw. who want to buy stolen credit card21:10
jacekowskii can contact you with people that sell that stuff21:10
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I get 100records for the buck in internets :-P21:11
DocScrutinizerso why buy a stolen card??21:11
MohammadAG51jacekowski, me me me21:11
jacekowskisome of them already done a jail time21:11
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, evidence for the police21:11
jacekowskiMohammadAG51: - is that true?21:12
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: all the police *I* know will rather arest *you* than hunt the guy you bought it from 'for evidence'21:12
MohammadAG51jacekowski, idk, not working with the government21:13
jacekowskibut you are reading local newspaper21:13
jacekowskilocal internet21:13
jacekowskilocal tv21:13
MohammadAG51not really, whois my IP21:13
DocScrutinizerI'm even reading local minds :-P21:13
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lcukjacekowski, i wasnt aware this channel condoned fencing stolen materials?21:13
MohammadAG51LOL what21:14
MohammadAG51jacekowski, Jordan21:14
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: see :-P21:14
jacekowskidescr:          HETZNER-RZ-NBG-BLK521:14
jacekowski20:13 [freenode] -!- MohammadAG51 [~MohammadA@]21:14
jacekowski20:13 [freenode] -!-  ircname  : special21:14
MohammadAG51LOL fu DocScrutinizer21:15
MohammadAG51i knew that bouncer had a hidden reason for it21:15
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MohammadAG51umm, oh...21:15
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MohammadAG51whois that one21:16
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jacekowskiinetnum: -
jacekowskinetname:        JO-LINK21:16
jacekowskidescr:          Zain Data-Jordan21:16
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: nice whois you got there, what's that?21:17
MohammadAG51my IP21:18
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: just whois21:18
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: te tool!21:18
jacekowskiii  whois                                       5.0.5                        an intelligent whois client21:18
DocScrutinizeraah, of course21:19
DocScrutinizerjust thought you got a compressed output21:20
jacekowskii had a tool that did a lot more stuff21:21
jacekowskiincluding automatic traceroute21:21
jacekowskiand was drawing a map based on traceroute results21:21
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jacekowskibut it's now on old hdd21:21
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DocScrutinizerthat'd be nice21:23
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HtheBu know what will be nice DocScrutinizer ?21:25
DocScrutinizersay happy ending and earn a kick21:25
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HtheBhappy ending!21:26
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer21:26
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, may i?21:26
*** HtheB was kicked by DocScrutinizer (User terminated!)21:26
MohammadAG51nah, nvm21:26
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jacekowskisay power factor and earn a kline21:27
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jacekowski( freenode antispam bot was configured to kline people saying power factor )21:27
Lynourejacekowski: seems absurd...21:27
tybolltpower factor21:27
jacekowskiit's fixed now21:28
HtheBhappy ending!21:28
tybolltmeh :(21:28
MohammadAG51HtheB, I'll beg for +o if you say it again and kick you myself21:28
MohammadAG51and i rarely beg for shit :)21:28
jacekowskii never beg for a shit21:28
jacekowskii just go to toilet and do my thing21:29
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* MohammadAG51 waits for HtheB to say it21:32
HtheBsay what? :p21:33
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HtheBim rtying froyo now21:33
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HtheBghana 1 - 0 vs21:35
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Milo-what happened to the 'search' utility in application manager?21:47
Milo-don't have that anymore :o21:47
DocScrutinizerMilo-: replaced by 'instatnt search' - just type21:47
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DocScrutinizeryeah, one of the really significan 'improvements' in pr1.2 :-S21:48
DocScrutinizer(borrow the missing 't' from above, please!)21:48
JaffaGeneralAntilles: ping (or GAN900 :-))21:49
DocScrutinizerola Jaffa :-D21:49
Jaffa'lo :-)21:50
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: an 'nice' detail: connection to a charger missing the D+/- short *increases* battery drainage by ~80mA  :-o21:52
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I really fail to make a good story out of that. USB activation THAT greedy?21:53
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: maybe interesting for you as well ^^^21:54
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: while same time - no surprise - my charger doesn't indicate any remarkable power being consumed by the device21:59
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: conclusion: BME is completely braindamaged21:59
SpeedEvilThe Ireg of the bq24150 is always on the output side?22:00
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I up'ed 1.3MB log of 10h normal on-charger idling to jrbme docs. You might find interesting. Jumps in device power consumption are caused by me switching on/off the screen backlight (2 or 3 times)22:01
SpeedEvilI've seen similar22:02
DocScrutinizerlike 10:49, 11:00 and a third one later iirc22:02
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: lreg?22:03
DocScrutinizeraah, dunno. I'd guess it's always VBUS I that's regulated22:03
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: as long as screen is on, bq24150 never hits the charge-end threshold, and BME does nothing to stop that floating situation (see sequences like 1,2,1,4,2,3,1,-11,5,2,1)22:05
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: the very moment I switched device to 'lock' the bq24150 status changed 90->8022:06
DocScrutinizerand charging stopped22:06
DocScrutinizerlater on BME pbviously decided to re-enable charging, but set Vreg down from 0x8c to 0x80 (= -60mV)22:07
DocScrutinizerwhich reduced the battery drainage from ~150mA to ~50mA22:08
DocScrutinizerBME is weird22:08
jacekowskiwhat are you using to log that?22:09
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DocScrutinizeri2cdump for bq24150, and ShadowJK's script for bq2720022:09
DocScrutinizerboth >> into one file22:09
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I don't have any nice docs from battery makers to address this.22:10
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: All I know says floating substantially down from 4.2 shouldn't be harmful22:10
DocScrutinizerI have some nice docs from Masushita (iirc) but still can't address THIS :-P22:11
SpeedEvilIt's only floating at 4.2 - where the 'end' current is non-zero - which is bad22:11
SpeedEvilI mean - float at 4.2 - you have a net charging current flowing endlessly through leakage.22:11
SpeedEvilnot really so at 4.122:11
DocScrutinizerwell, with screen on you get exactly the 4.2V float hazard case22:12
jacekowskiwell, nokia has a lot more experience in that22:12
jacekowskiso i doubt they would screw up something like that22:13
SpeedEvilNokia has experience - in principle yes.22:13
jacekowskifrom the other side22:13
DocScrutinizerquite obviously, yes!22:13
jacekowskii saw even bigger fuck ups in bme code22:13
SpeedEvilThis howerver assumes that information is shared into some central knowledgebase, and the writers of the charger subsystem understands and can read this22:13
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: Nokia - for all I know - has no clue at all what's going on in BME. Done by some dozen contractors over ~10 years22:14
jacekowskiis there any page where i can leave my findings for other people to use22:14
DocScrutinizerthat's what I heard (rumours)22:14
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: join jrbme proj22:14
jacekowskibut there is no requirements for it to be in any readable order22:14
DocScrutinizerdump to documents22:15
SpeedEvil - though DocScrutinizers suggestion is possibly better22:15
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: that page has some quality standards22:15
jacekowskithat would have to be lowered22:15
SpeedEvilIt does?22:15
SpeedEvilWhich bastard put those in?22:15
SpeedEvilYou could just add a 'notes' page22:16
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jacekowskibesides, i don't think bme does have a watchdog22:17
jacekowskiit looks like it's only upstart watching it22:17
SpeedEvilI'm intending going over the hardware pages again to make them all saner22:18
SpeedEvilbut I got distracted.22:18
jacekowskiyeah, i spent a lot of time looking for that watchdog22:18
SpeedEvilToday I have shredded my own weight in hedges22:18
jacekowskiand how to disarm it22:18
jacekowskiand then i realised that there is no watchdog22:18
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jacekowskibtw, does anybody know what is stored in cal?22:21
MohammadAG51FMTX state22:21
MohammadAG51fw version22:21
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MohammadAG51the rest, idk and i don't give a crap :P22:22
jacekowskiand, is there any software that reads it22:22
jacekowskii mean just console thingy that can dump it22:22
MohammadAG51cal-info-tool iirc22:22
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MohammadAG51cal-tool is all i've got on my device22:23
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jacekowskiif you run it without any options22:24
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jacekowski  --get-usb-host-mode, -u       Get USB host mode flag22:29
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: known, but worthless on N90022:33
DocScrutinizermost probably, except if NOLO...22:34
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: anyway nobody knows how to SET the flag22:34
jacekowskii know22:34
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jacekowskithere is cal lib22:34
MohammadAG51<jacekowski>   --get-usb-host-mode, -u       Get USB host mode flag22:35
Andy80hi all22:35
MohammadAG51showed it to DocScrutinizer before22:35
jacekowskiand i saw prototypes for it22:35
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I did a grep over /etc/* and couldn't find any references to that22:35
MohammadAG51N8x0 heritage most prolly22:35
jacekowskigive me a second22:35
jacekowskii'll disassemble it22:36
Andy80I'm having some problems with NokiaSDK. I can successfully compile an application for Maemo target, but at the end when it tries to build the .deb package (I suppose) I get this error: Packaging Error: Could not copy '/home/andrea/Documents/sviluppo/msoma-build-n900/msoma' to '/home/andrea/Documents/sviluppo/msoma-build-n900/debian/msoma//usr/local/bin/msoma'.22:36
Andy80how can I fix this?22:36
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: you're an evil hax0r22:36
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i consulted some people22:36
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it's legal to that sort of stuff22:36
DocScrutinizersure it is22:36
jacekowskiif it's for research purposes22:37
jacekowskiand educational22:37
jacekowskiwhich it is22:37
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ptlgot my smstalk script working!23:01
ptlnow it talks all SMS people send me :D23:01
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JaffaAll, I'll spam here:
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JaffaX-Fade: ping23:08
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linuxboy_hello... guys I have question to all you maemo expert. I am considering buying a N900... would you recommend it to a Linux geek like me?23:08
SpeedEvillinuxboy_: Speaking as someone who has had a n900 for 7 months, my major annoyance with the device so far is that they were too cheap to put in more than one stylus.23:09
linuxboy_SpeedEvil: I see... I heard some rumors about Nokia not supporting the N900.... true or false ?23:10
xkr47-DIyeah hey I just misplaced mine!23:10
hardakerlinuxboy_: If you're a linux geek, there is no other phone for you.23:10
ShadowJKindeed, it's perfect for linux geeks because it builds on regular userland, gtk and qt23:11
ShadowJKand x-terminal comes preinstalled :D23:11
xkr47-DII have had mine for two weeks and I just love it23:12
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linuxboy_thanks guys... obviously I am aware of the specifications of the N900 and I can imagine what it can do... the only thing holding me back were rumors23:13
jacekowskii might have fucked up my phone23:13
xkr47-DIlinuxboy_, shoot!23:13
jacekowskii'm not sure yet23:14
jacekowskibut i wrong into wrong place in cal23:14
jacekowskibut i written*23:14
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jacekowskihmm, it's booting23:14
ShadowJKlinuxboy_, well rumours are rumours23:14
ShadowJKBut basically Nokia isn't hiding anything. They're working on a new one, possibly for christmas, and then for next christmas, etc.23:14
linuxboy_will the next mameo/meego device have a physical keyboard?23:15
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ShadowJKThat we don't know23:15
jacekowskiNokia-N900-02-8:~# cal-tool -u23:15
jacekowskii have that23:15
jacekowskinow just a question23:15
jacekowskiwhat's next23:15
ShadowJKWhat some people are upset with is that Nokia has a tendency to never backport new operating systems to older hw23:16
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tybolltcan you get Ovi suite to download maps to the eMMC instead of the add-on card?23:17
tybolltI've lots of space on eMMC but not on the mem card23:17
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tybolltsjk: that's not nokia, that is all corporations23:18
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ptltybollt: You can do that via a symlink23:21
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jacekowskii hate wireless23:31
jacekowskiand wifi in n900 is fucked up23:31
jacekowskieverything except n900 works with my AP23:32
microlithpowersave modes active on the N900?23:32
ptln900 works better on my wireless router than my laptop23:32
jacekowskii just have like 70% packet loss23:35
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* pahartik just found out that USB on "Apple iBook G4" does not provide enough power to charge "Nokia N900" through "Nokia CA-100" when laptop workstation is operating on battery power23:39
nidOthat or you dont have the connectivity driver installed?23:39
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* xkr47-DI uses usb networking23:52
xkr47-DIanyone using gentoo here ?23:52
xkr47-DIany recommended scratchbox etc installation instructions.. right now I'm trying
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jacekowskiwho want's to try something?23:57
jacekowskiand does have usb cable with id pin grounded23:57

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