IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-06-25

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SpeedEvil	act_dead can use very little power	00:03
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SpeedEvil	but yes - if it stays in that state.	00:03
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BCMM	tworking	00:05
BCMM	oh, sorry	00:05
BCMM	i was trying to /join #networking	00:05
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flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: gotta tell you, replacement bme should be high priority, and not just because it would mean more open components	00:12
flailingmonkey	not as high as hostmode, I suppose	00:12
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ShadowJK	Yesterday when I charged without bme, 1200mA/4200mV, it tapered off so perfectly to 4100mV (according to bq27200) I got suspicious/worried :P	00:14
DrGrov	Does that N900 charger adapter give the same output as the regular USB charger?	00:15
ShadowJK	If by charge adapter you mean CA-146C, then no	00:15
DocScrutinizer51	sorry, missed a few minutes	00:16
DrGrov	So it will take much longer to charge?	00:16
DrGrov	I mean that small adapter that fits for older Nokia charges and out comes the usb charger to insert into the N900	00:16
DocScrutinizer51	DrGrov: yes	00:16
ShadowJK	Yeah. Let's say it's only practical for overnight charging	00:16
DrGrov	DocScrutinizer: ok, that will be no problem to charge then.	00:17
DocScrutinizer51	though 'much' is relative	00:17
DrGrov	yes, i will use it for overnight charging tomorrow at the summer place then.	00:17
ShadowJK	I'd also use it on a fireproof surface..	00:17
DrGrov	i just need it fully charged saturday morning so no hurries	00:17
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DrGrov	why fireproof? it heats up too much?	00:18
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DocScrutinizer51	alas there's no datasheet or specs for CA-146C anywhere	00:18
ShadowJK	http://www.nokiausers.net/General/N97-Charging-Warning-Beware-of-Using-Supplied-CA-146C-with-Old-Style-Nokia-Charger.html :)	00:18
MohammadAG51	sometimes melts	00:18
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MohammadAG51	it was removed from US N900s	00:18
DrGrov	ah then it is better that i take the normal N900 charger and plug it in the socket and no need for any extra adapter thingies in between. just plain normal charging	00:19
flailingmonkey	yep	00:19
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flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer51: did you get my comment about jrbme?	00:19
DrGrov	i need to tell this to my fiancee as well just to use the default similar charger that the N97 has	00:20
ShadowJK	Similar? I'd say it has the same charger	00:21
DrGrov	ah yes, it is infact the same charger	00:21
DrGrov	1200 mAh as well	00:21
DrGrov	but good thing is that she only uses the normal N97 charger without any additional things	00:21
DrGrov	i will fucking destroy both these evil adapters before it becomes too risky	00:22
DrGrov	sorry for swearing..	00:22
Venemo	hi guys	00:22
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Venemo	autobuilder vs. Venemo = 5 - 0	00:23
Venemo	"error: X11/Xlib.h: No such file or directory" -> does anyone know what the problem is?	00:23
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yigal	hey I just assumed that Modest in Maemo 5 PR 1.2 can't do searches for key terms in header, body etc.. Is this true?	00:24
DocScrutinizer51	just one line. about prio	00:24
DocScrutinizer51	DrGrov: please send them to me	00:25
yigal	Excuse me I didn't mean searches I really meant filter email.	00:26
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TomaszD	hey guys, can you vote for this http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/gps-data-logger/0.5-3/ ? I'm not the author but I've worked closely with him and tested this app through hundreds of kilometeres of bike rides so it works fine	00:28
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DocScrutinizer51	filter in modest? you're kidding	00:30
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yigal	I know, I know, I jest :D	00:32
yigal	at least gmail.com works well enough on the n900	00:33
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DrGrov	DocScrutinizer51: you sure you want to have them? the old Nokia - usb charger?	00:36
BCMM	So, Intel is backing Android as well as meego	00:36
flailingmonkey	intel is backing linux	00:37
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BCMM	android isn't linux.	00:37
yigal	trudat	00:37
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BCMM	nah, intel is backing "stuff running in atom as well as ARM"	00:38
BCMM	^on	00:38
yigal	trudat	00:38
luke-jr	zash: escapement is more than the anchor :p	00:38
BCMM	still, was kinda hoping the intel thing meant meego would go further than android	00:38
yigal	BCMM: you're just a bit faster at typing than I, lol	00:38
flailingmonkey	i feel the same, but	00:38
BCMM	since i'm somewhat opposed to the idea of making an incompatible fork of the linux kernel and an even less compatible userspace	00:39
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SpeedEvil	A assymetric multiprocessor solution would be interesting.	00:39
BCMM	<tinfoilhat>it all feels a bit "embrace, extend..."</tinfoilhat>	00:39
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SpeedEvil	One 486 class core.	00:39
SpeedEvil	One 'modern' one	00:40
flailingmonkey	i frankly think ARM is going to threaten intel	00:40
SpeedEvil	yeah	00:40
ManoftheSea	assymetric?	00:40
jacekowski	flailingmonkey: not really	00:40
ManoftheSea	like... what?	00:40
BCMM	SpeedEvil: shiny, but why?	00:40
mavhc	intel tried to kill x86, failed, so they'll lose eventually	00:40
jacekowski	flailingmonkey: it's not compatible with x86	00:40
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BCMM	i mean, you'd still have the power-usage consequences of x86	00:41
SpeedEvil	BCMM: Maintaining binary compatibility across cores, but having one use a couple of orders of magnitude less power at nominal clock	00:41
mavhc	new software is all written for non x86 runtimes anyway	00:41
flailingmonkey	assymetric is when the booth babes have a perfect... product to sell	00:41
jacekowski	ManoftheSea: like smp with dedicated hardware for specific job	00:41
SpeedEvil	BCMM: http://bifferos.bizhat.com/ - x86 - 486/150 - ~1W	00:41
BCMM	flailingmonkey: i want to put the tinfoil hat back on and say that intel is prepering it's own line of non-x86 things	00:41
SpeedEvil	BCMM: they had ARM	00:41
mavhc	CLR, Parrot, JVM	00:41
SpeedEvil	BCMM: They used to sell 'strongarm'	00:41
SpeedEvil	which did quite well in mobile space	00:41
SpeedEvil	well - PDA	00:42
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BCMM	SpeedEvil: actually, it would make sense in a couple of years, with a slow, low-power x86 core	00:42
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BCMM	assuming you don't need to run new apps on the x86 thing	00:43
mavhc	x86 is just risc with a battery wasting emulation layer	00:43
flailingmonkey	I just want an ARM laptop already	00:43
BCMM	SpeedEvil: well, doing non-x86 now would make sense - they don't want to die if x86 dies	00:43
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BCMM	flailingmonkey: me too	00:43
BCMM	i think there are a couple	00:43
mavhc	flailingmonkey: I can sell you an A4 laptop	00:44
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SpeedEvil	I would put a large bet on x86 not being dead in 10 years.	00:44
BCMM	i actually can't see a single downside of an arm laptop really	00:44
SpeedEvil	BCMM: Binary compatibility	00:44
SpeedEvil	BCMM: IOW - flash	00:44
* SpeedEvil saw his first 'upgrade to 10.0' banner on youtube the other day. :/		00:45
flailingmonkey	SpeedEvil: it won't die, too many legacy systems, but I wouldn't expect it to be the new tech leader	00:45
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BCMM	SpeedEvil: it won't be dead in ten years, in the same way you can still get software for powerpc macs	00:45
BCMM	i mean, they aren't dead, but they aren't very well	00:46
ManoftheSea	I know what asymmetric means.	00:46
ManoftheSea	But what would you do with it?	00:46
ManoftheSea	Like, CPU vs. GPU?	00:46
BCMM	i think people could actually accept losing legacy software	00:46
ManoftheSea	Or are you planning to do a lot of FFTs on your cell phone?	00:46
flailingmonkey	mavhc: I'm hoping for something in the Cortex-A9 family :)	00:46
BCMM	i mean, people don't assume stuff will work on the next windows version	00:46
BCMM	and normal people switch to macs, and so on	00:46
flailingmonkey	consumers definitely do, companies are not as flexible	00:47
mavhc	that's what emulation is for	00:47
jacekowski	flailingmonkey: there is no alternatives	00:47
SpeedEvil	ManoftheSea: Imagine one processor that just ticks over at 20MHz or so, reacting to events.	00:47
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: i think sombody designed tickless '81	00:48
jacekowski	51*	00:48
jacekowski	completly asynchronous	00:48
SpeedEvil	possibly	00:48
jacekowski	just processing data as it comes	00:48
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flailingmonkey	for workstations not runnng heavy apps, the ARM power savings would be a sell. but many are locked into software suites that live in microsoft ecosystem	00:48
mavhc	arm is fast enough for most things people do, with a dsp/gpu if you're lazy	00:48
jacekowski	i've read about it in one of polish electronics newspapers couple years ago	00:48
mavhc	microsoft is moving office to sliverlight and web, both run on arm	00:49
jacekowski	flailingmonkey: there is no real alternative to x86 for high performance applications	00:49
jacekowski	flailingmonkey: only itanium	00:50
mavhc	or high end risc stuff	00:50
jacekowski	flailingmonkey: but there isn't many people that can program itanium	00:50
mavhc	noone can program itanium, that's the compiler's job	00:50
jacekowski	sparc died with sun	00:51
Arkenoi	well, the bad news is you cannot really program itanium	00:51
flailingmonkey	jacekowski: the alternative to x86 for such apps is a new intel line that gets rid of legacy chip components, but implements the instructions that are relevent	00:51
Arkenoi	the good is that you do not need to, compiler does the job for you	00:51
jacekowski	Arkenoi: well, you can	00:52
Arkenoi	actually, EPIC native code is almost impossible to program in low level	00:52
jacekowski	almost	00:52
jacekowski	and well	00:52
jacekowski	it's hard	00:52
jacekowski	requires brain	00:53
jacekowski	but it's possible	00:53
mavhc	well, someone had to program the compiler, but once that was done, they locked him up in a mental hospital	00:53
Arkenoi	it is worse than worst case RISC like alpha where you need to keep in mind that you cannot access memory bus until n tacts pass after this instruction	00:53
jacekowski	well, i'm programming itanium sometimes	00:53
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jacekowski	anyways going back to other alternatives	00:54
* DocScrutinizer51 pointing to bell+braben and their 500000mlines of asm for elite		00:55
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jacekowski	there is no alternative for hi end workstations	00:55
Arkenoi	jacekowski, and what's the point of programming EPIC in low level manually? I think compiler will do the job better almost always.	00:55
jacekowski	Arkenoi: i was doing some things and i just gave up on trying to tell compiler what to do	00:55
Arkenoi	a decent compiler, i mean	00:55
jacekowski	and i decided to do it in asm	00:56
Arkenoi	wow	00:56
Arkenoi	btw used itanium workstations are still inadequately expensive on ebay'	00:56
Arkenoi	i want one but i still cannot afford it	00:56
Arkenoi	too much money for outdated slow hardware	00:57
jacekowski	thing is that gcc seems to generate a lot of inefficient code very often	00:57
Arkenoi	and if it is not that outdated it is damn a lot of money	00:57
Arkenoi	ah	00:57
Arkenoi	you use gcc	00:57
jacekowski	or just redundant code	00:57
Arkenoi	gcc is not an option for itanium	00:57
Arkenoi	it is known issue	00:58
jacekowski	well, icc isn't doing much better	00:58
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jacekowski	well, icc on x86	00:58
Arkenoi	actually there is just handful of instruction sets that gcc does well	00:58
jacekowski	i never tried icc for itanium	00:58
Arkenoi	and itanium is not one of those	00:58
jacekowski	well, name one	00:58
Arkenoi	x86, mips, arm	00:59
Arkenoi	sparc -- not really	00:59
jacekowski	well, i never had chance to play with mips	00:59
jacekowski	but i know that it generates shit not a code for x86 and arm	00:59
jacekowski	i just need to find an example	00:59
Arkenoi	jacekowski, it does much worse on other architectures ;-)	01:00
jacekowski	yeah, reversing order of bytes in 32bit int on 8 bit architecture	01:00
jacekowski	where everything was stored in registers	01:00
jacekowski	gcc managed to do it in only 50 instructions	01:00
Arkenoi	hppa2, sparc64 are barely usable and itanium is definitely not, you get performance degradation almost twice	01:00
jacekowski	where it could be done in 8	01:00
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jacekowski	and i think i saw massive fuck up with conditional execution on arm	01:01
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Arkenoi	does icc perform much better?	01:02
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jacekowski	on x86 - yep	01:02
Arkenoi	on arm	01:02
jacekowski	never tried it on arm	01:02
jacekowski	i've tried it on very old 8085 i think	01:03
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jacekowski	old version of it	01:03
jacekowski	with only C89 support	01:03
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jacekowski	( we still sell devices with that processor )	01:03
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Arkenoi	does intel still sell ia64 workstations? hp does not anymore :-(	01:05
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flailingmonkey	the sad thing about optimization these days is that most programmers don't have a clue about how to even approach it	01:06
DocScrutinizer51	they never had a clue about asm	01:06
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Corsac	that's the whole point of compilers, though :)	01:07
jacekowski	well, i very often look at assembly generated by compiler to see if C code can be improved to generate faster code	01:08
jacekowski	and smaller	01:08
DocScrutinizer51	usually it can	01:08
flailingmonkey	egh. without an understanding of system architecture, they have no hope	01:08
flailingmonkey	definitely	01:08
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer51: well, with gcc it's quite easy to make it worse	01:09
jacekowski	visual studio compiler is hopeless	01:09
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jacekowski	only asm compilers generate code i would like to see	01:10
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jacekowski	hmm, with one exception	01:10
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jacekowski	i remember when i spent quite some time with macros defined in masm	01:11
flailingmonkey	theres a reason compilers sales can still make a profit	01:11
jacekowski	that caused me some grief	01:11
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DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: I'll come up with a minimalistic version of jrbme until next week	01:24
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DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: seems meego needs it	01:25
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: probably Nokia realized the original bme is so brainshot fuckedup they simply can't fix it so it would run under meego chroot or whatever they do to make the nokia blobs behave in meego	01:26
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: sounds great, I highly doubt that the Nokians will really be able to fix bme without starting over, and they aren't willing to do that	01:27
DocScrutinizer	and quite obviously it has other issues beyonf meego incompatibility	01:27
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DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: exactly	01:27
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flailingmonkey	from a project management POV, they don't have the budget for such a task	01:28
flailingmonkey	I am very curious what they used in harmattan/N9	01:28
DocScrutinizer	my take on bme is: it's been developed by 57 contractor companies, all the time since 1999 Nokia 6110	01:28
DocScrutinizer	and mow absolutely nobody has a clue what's done for which reason - basically a huge stinking pile of cargo cult	01:29
flailingmonkey	I've seen that quite often, the knowledge just evaporates without documentation	01:30
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DocScrutinizer	yep	01:30
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DocScrutinizer	and each itteration is composed of more bug caused by false assumptions about what was the meaning of this part of code in last version, plus uneducated bandaids that just seem to work	01:32
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flailingmonkey	mhm. are they able to even tell you what bme's responsible for	01:33
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flailingmonkey	some requirements would be nice. but sometimes a little help is too much to ask for :P	01:36
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DocScrutinizer	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming	01:37
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DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkey: I asked for requirements specs for bme. "We are looking into it, but ut has legal issues" :-/	01:38
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flailingmonkey	if you kept bringing it up at hardware adaptation meetings, you might get it. people need reminding	01:39
flailingmonkey	s/kept/keep/	01:40
infobot	flailingmonkey meant: if you keep bringing it up at hardware adaptation meetings, you might get it. people need reminding	01:40
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DocScrutinizer	Nokia common notion is: "if we tell the battery mustn't become hotter than 70°C, and there's this sensor to probe, then we're liable when some idiot does it wrong and makes the cell explode"	01:40
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DocScrutinizer	obviously a paradox assumption, but oh well I can't cure that	01:41
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DocScrutinizer	also frequently claimed are "patended intelectual properties" in BME. I honestly doubt there are any in N900 bme, but how to prove them wrong, when you can't even get a look on the requirement specs, not to talk about the src	01:43
DocScrutinizer	maybe there have been, until maybe 2001, and that's now some meta-cargo-cult	01:44
SpeedEvil	Is there a sane thing that lets me reorganise apps into folders?	01:44
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ptl	SpeedEvil: ApMeFo	01:44
SpeedEvil	For example - I have lots of apps that are in my testing queue, that are cluttering up my app list	01:44
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flailingmonkeyN9	sorry, changed connections without disconnecting from irc	01:45
* SpeedEvil tries ptls suggestion.		01:45
DocScrutinizer	/msg nameserver ghost <prevNick>	01:45
DocScrutinizer	err nickserv	01:46
DocScrutinizer	flailingmonkeyN9: ^^^	01:46
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flailingmonkey	done	01:46
Venemo	if the autobuilder successfully build my package, what happens?	01:47
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flailingmonkey	it would get imported into the devel repository	01:52
flailingmonkey	DocScrutinizer: caught up from irc log site :P	01:53
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flailingmonkey	and yeah, no one knows so they have to be cautious rather than take a risk that they'd be liable for (wrt patents)	01:53
ptl	software patents aren't valid in Europe	01:54
ptl	an european guy couldn't do an open-source version without worries?	01:54
flailingmonkey	hah, as if its ever so simple	01:55
DocScrutinizer	if battery charging is implemented in sw, then it doesn't mean the paptent regarding charging are sw patents	01:55
flailingmonkey	sharing that information also encounters export laws	01:55
flailingmonkey	as ridiculous as it sounds, these are the realities of the law	01:56
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djkrikke	Hi guys, the wiki gives me the idea to use " /some/script * * com.nokia.icd status_changed * WLAN_INFRA" in the dbus scripts directory for wlan changes. Will this work for com.nokia.phone.net status changes too?	01:59
djkrikke	And if someone knows, how do I know how much params I have to pass?	01:59
pupnik	Crossing the rubycon...	02:00
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orangey	hello all	02:03
orangey	is the media player in n900 already an UPNP controller / client?	02:03
djkrikke	orangey, my n900 detects an upnp device	02:05
orangey	djkrikke: ok	02:06
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orangey	djkrikke: can you control the UPNP devices?	02:07
djkrikke	what do you mean with control?	02:07
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orangey	djkrikke: the upnp also allows people to control upnp devices remotely	02:08
orangey	http://netzflocken.de/2008/1/30/coherence-and-rhythmbox-upnp-interaction	02:09
flailingmonkey	orangey: there is an app called Zhaan which lets you act as a UPNP control point	02:09
djkrikke	hmm, I'm not aware of what control means with upnp	02:09
orangey	flailingmonkey: yeah, I'm really, really interested in zhaan	02:09
orangey	especially coupled with vera	02:09
djkrikke	what can you control actually?	02:10
djkrikke	I mean, you get a list of songs/movies/etc.., what do you have to control on that?	02:10
orangey	djkrikke: everything : )	02:10
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orangey	play, stop, etc.	02:10
flailingmonkey	I read about Vera, on the blog of the author of Zhaan	02:10
orangey	if they're playing on your computer, say	02:10
orangey	flailingmonkey: same	02:11
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orangey	god. I'm an idiot.. I wasn't on the WLAN while trying to test the uPNP server ; )	02:12
orangey	man, 2010 is awesome	02:13
djkrikke	haha :D	02:13
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dick-richardson	will meego's gui be based on X? i.e. will ssh x forwarding work as it does now under maemo?	02:16
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pupnik	good question. i think the answer for now, is not really	02:16
ptl	"not really"?	02:16
ptl	but it has QT and X	02:16
ptl	isn't it?	02:16
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pupnik	can you do opengl2 over a network?	02:17
DocScrutinizer51	WHAT? meego no X???	02:17
pupnik	with meego?	02:17
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asj	I would be shocked if it didn't use X	02:18
flailingmonkey	rofl	02:19
DocScrutinizer51	pupnik: openGL is X->HW, while ssh -X is the software api to X	02:19
flailingmonkey	meego runs on X	02:19
flailingmonkey	no question about it	02:19
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BCMM	yeah, opengl doesn't work with remote X connections	02:19
DocScrutinizer51	I'd bet	02:19
BCMM	well, there is an experimental thing that does it	02:19
DocScrutinizer51	BCMM: as there is no ssh -openGL cmd	02:20
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DocScrutinizer51	same as there isn't ssh -nvidia	02:20
pupnik	i think the deeper question is, "should/will meego's gui eye candy have a reasonable non-animated fallback for devices that don't support compositing (currently via opengl)	02:21
DocScrutinizer51	or ssh -directX10	02:21
BCMM	DocScrutinizer51: well, it doesn't even work with X over a normal network	02:21
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DocScrutinizer51	then it's no X	02:21
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DocScrutinizer51	but I honerstly doubt you're completely right	02:22
DocScrutinizer51	of course i can't start mplayer over ssh	02:23
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raster	BCMM: opengl does work with remote x	02:23
DocScrutinizer51	same as I can't expect any openGL eyecandy	02:23
raster	if you use glx.	02:23
raster	thats the whole point of glx	02:23
BCMM	you can start mplayer over ssh	02:23
raster	problem is everyone wants to bypass x and use "direct" gl	02:24
BCMM	you'll get a horrid frame rate unless it's a really tiny video	02:24
DocScrutinizer51	raster to the rescue, yeah!	02:24
raster	and that bypasses x protocl and the x server entirely	02:24
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BCMM	glx doesn't work over networks does it?	02:24
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raster	glx does	02:26
raster	its a protocol	02:26
BCMM	ah	02:26
BCMM	now i understand	02:26
raster	fact is theat the gl app will explicitly decide direct or indirect as a gl init	02:26
BCMM	raster: by "bypasses x protocl and the x server entirely", you mean DRI, right?	02:26
djkrikke	guys, someone knows how to find out the dbus "listener" I can use for com.nokia.phone.net registration status?	02:26
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ptl	I don't	02:27
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djkrikke	there are examples on the wifi commands	02:27
djkrikke	but none on the phone.net	02:27
raster	and indirect == glx protocol	02:28
raster	direct == bypass xserver/protocol	02:28
raster	and 99.99995 of things use direct	02:28
pupnik	i think the focus atm is to concentrate on making meego netbook/handheld work and feel like a real modern, slick, easy OS	02:28
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asj	pupnik: are you implying that my remote X requirements aren't the most important thing they should be considering?	02:29
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pupnik	i am	02:29
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asj	pupnik: well I'm buying an ipad then! ;)	02:29
Venemo	hey guys!	02:29
Venemo	check out the latest invention: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=728270#post728270	02:30
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asj	Venemo: hey that's cool :)	02:30
DocScrutinizer51	raster: servus	02:30
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raster	BCMM: correct. DRI is one thing used to bypass x protocol - u bypass x protocol then u bypass the ability to remote display	02:31
raster	(well its a tad more complex - bu tthats the basics)	02:31
wolf^	Venemo, nice	02:31
raster	DocScrutinizer51: yo yo	02:31
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pupnik	raster: sounds like with glx i should be able to get hardware accelerated opengl from a VM window	02:33
raster	pupnik: yes.	02:34
raster	tho the hw accel would happen outside the vm's virtual fb etc.	02:34
Arkenoi	funny, builtin media player recognizes mkv as media file but refuses to play it	02:34
pupnik	would the VM look to the graphics card just like a local application?	02:35
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pupnik	no, that's not possible. blergh	02:35
Venemo	asj, wolf^: thanks for the kind words	02:36
Venemo	I would be glad if you gave the app a test drive :)	02:36
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wolf^	Venemo, but doesn't install	02:37
wolf^	Unpacking sticky-notes (from .../sticky-notes_0.1.2_armel.deb) ...	02:37
wolf^	dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute new pre-installation script: No such file or directory	02:37
Venemo	huh?	02:37
Venemo	weird	02:37
Venemo	let me check	02:37
Venemo	packaging is still something I don't excel in	02:38
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n900-1	hey guys	02:41
Venemo	hi	02:41
n900-1	a question about the latest qt sdk 1.0	02:41
Venemo	n900-1: we're listening	02:41
pupnik	raster: the xen guys said i can switch between OS's and after I switch, each has 'native' control of the GPU. Is that possible? Can the gpu 'save the state' in one OS before switching to another?	02:42
n900-1	i know that we can set the target to be n900 and hence keep on coding in qt and running that code will result in the app automatically transfering to n900 and running on it (madde totally integrates now right?), can this be done with n97 also, that is what my friend want to know?	02:43
Venemo	n900-1: yes, you can develop for Symbian devices as well	02:43
Venemo	although you'd better check a symbian forum or channel about how	02:44
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keemo_	Hi	02:44
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raster	pupnik: depends on drivers really	02:45
raster	pupnik: asa such you have 1 bit of real hardware being given to multiple os's	02:46
raster	maybe one after the other	02:46
raster	but the drivers assume they are the only os and onyl thing using the gpu	02:46
pupnik	i read some posts about hardware support for virtualization	02:46
raster	so - chances are u're asking for trouble	02:46
pupnik	right	02:46
raster	saving gpu state reauires full gpu knowledge	02:46
n900-1	aha so Venemo , the n97 will be connected to my pc and the same experience of development like n900?	02:46
raster	requires	02:46
n900-1	oh yea, i'll check the forums	02:46
raster	the safest would be each os totally from-scratch inits the gpu when it starts using it	02:47
trip0	how does the qt sdk 1.0 make maemo development easier?	02:47
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raster	and totally shuts it down/cleans it up before it gets handed over	02:47
trip0	does it include a crosscompiler?	02:47
n900-1	its going to most probably require the qt libs to be present in n97, thanks to pr1.2 that takes care of that on n900.	02:47
raster	thats about the best u can do without a proepr virtualised gl driver	02:47
pupnik	just imagining all the stuff that would have to be done is boggling me	02:48
raster	these days a gpu is not unlike a whole cpu in complexity	02:50
raster	so sharing that resource is non-trivial - indeed.	02:50
raster	the best bet is almost always to have a single real driver sit on top of the gpu and this real driver exposes a "virtual" driver	02:50
raster	that uses a different "protocol" and handles gpu context switching, resource sharing etc.	02:50
nkinkade	Hi all. Does anyone happen to know how one can set/get whether the USB port is in "mass storage" or "pc suite" mode (N900 question)?	02:51
raster	not really unlike how xserver does for multiple processes and 2d gfx	02:51
raster	etc.	02:51
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nkinkade	... set/get programmatically, that is.	02:51
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pupnik	raster: does the term "gpu hypervisor" make sense?	02:52
raster	it would - if gpu's were open	02:53
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raster	as such i dont believe in the xen model	02:53
raster	ie hypervisors in general	02:53
raster	i believe in the simpler "kvm" "vmware" etc. model	02:53
raster	u have a host os	02:53
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asj	ok the comic strip widget rocks	02:54
raster	and if u want virtual machines - they just lurk as your run-of-the-mill process there	02:54
pupnik	raster: so the switching isn't limited to the hardware capabilities	02:54
raster	and after that life is pretty easy compared to the hypervisor way	02:54
pupnik	oh for the user, very much	02:54
pupnik	was just testing meego in qemu	02:54
raster	implementing a virtual gl device here - as well as pretty much any hardware, now is easy and actually is the right model/way to go	02:55
raster	guest os doesnt see real hw	02:55
raster	it sees fake/virtualised hw	02:55
raster	and the real host hw is an entirely different matter	02:55
pupnik	right and if the OSes both use a decent graphics API, then we have a better situation	02:55
raster	u can chnage host hardware at will - and guess doesnt need to know or care	02:55
raster	well yes	02:55
raster	for example a virtual gl device would be a bit of hw where u stuff an opengl api call + needed data into some command-=queue buffer thats is exposed as a hw memory region	02:56
raster	the other end simple decodes and sends it right to gl	02:56
Robot101	raster: we've done this with qemu	02:56
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Robot101	well there was an old branch, its updated to work with kvm now, and do pageflipping into and out of the host gl	02:57
raster	(and sends back responses as needed - of course this is a simplified view - attached data like texture data to upload means more data - maybe view opening up and exposing memory pages from the guest os to the host)	02:57
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raster	Robot101: sounds like the right way to me	02:57
raster	tho last i heard of this - i don't know if we talk of the same thing, this only partially worked - ie principle was right, but not fully/properly implemented?	02:58
Robot101	works fine now	02:58
Robot101	its not strictly virtualised because its only as 'secure' as the host gl driver/hw	02:58
raster	true	02:59
GAN900	w00t_, ping?	02:59
w00t_	pong!	02:59
raster	but for the purpose of emulating let's say opengl-es in qemu on top of a host opengl for development- it'd be sufficient	02:59
raster	i assume that was the intent? :)	02:59
Venemo	what is this ping-pong stuff?	02:59
Robot101	yup, exactly what it was for :)	02:59
GAN900	w00t_, Maemo/community/contributor/w00t OK?	02:59
raster	(well u had to als do gles -> gl along the way - but thats not too hard)	02:59
w00t_	GAN900: ack	02:59
raster	Robot101: :):)	03:00
GAN900	w00t_, OK, updating bug #8450	03:00
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8450 Add remaining IRC cloaks	03:00
Robot101	raster: lemme find a link	03:00
w00t_	the thought of emulating opengl makes me happy	03:00
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Robot101	raster: glReadPixels really fucks the whole day up though :)	03:00
Robot101	sloooo oooooo oooooooooow	03:00
w00t_	GAN900: ta	03:01
Robot101	http://gitorious.org/vm-gl-accel	03:01
Robot101	even works on windows	03:01
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Robot101	(hosts)	03:01
raster	Robot101: glreadpixels fucks pretty much everything up	03:01
raster	as does glwritepixels	03:01
raster	and glcopypixels	03:01
Robot101	bit of a lack of kvm there though	03:01
raster	in general - avoid them like the plague	03:01
raster	if they DO work right.. they invariablyu work as software fallbacks at the speed of continental drift	03:02
Robot101	well if your host gfx card doesn't use main memory, you have to snort the render results out of it to give them to your guest to composite or whatever	03:03
Robot101	not quite sure the stuff is up to moving gl handles in and our of your guest system	03:04
Robot101	but its performant even on non-intel gfx so they sorted it somehow	03:04
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Robot101	raster: you still in korea or moved on elsewhere?	03:05
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* Robot101 decides to sleep		03:06
Robot101	raster: catch you later	03:06
raster	Robot101: in kr	03:06
raster	sorry	03:07
raster	people around	03:07
Robot101	no worries, I gotta crash	03:07
Robot101	trouble keeping my eyes open	03:07
Robot101	'night	03:07
raster	nite	03:07
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asj	pr1.2 has made the n900 a much better phone, I've made/received 4-5 calls in the last 2 days and it hasn't screwed up any of them	03:14
pigeon	is there a way to disable usb charging on the n900?	03:14
pigeon	raster: muhahahaha	03:15
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raster	pigeon: MUHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAWHAHA	03:16
pigeon	raster: indeed	03:16
obsidieth	hmm. my wireless stopped working over night	03:18
obsidieth	this happened to anyone else? seems like it might have slept or something	03:18
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pigeon	the power management stuff maybe?</wildguess>	03:21
obsidieth	where would one look for this?	03:21
pigeon	i believe in internet connections in the settings, for each network there's a power saving settings or something like that.	03:22
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obsidieth	ah. it was on.	03:23
obsidieth	and now i can see it	03:24
obsidieth	should i try setting it to intermediate perhaps.	03:24
pigeon	i read somewhere on the wiki, the power saving might not work well with some access point	03:24
pigeon	http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_power_saving_mode	03:25
SpeedEvil	~powersaving	03:25
obsidieth	interesting, it would seem thast the case	03:26
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mortini	pigeon: aha. that's annoyed the heck out of me.	03:28
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obsidieth	i need a psm supported router apparently.	03:31
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obsidieth	bleh. this is quite strange.	03:34
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obsidieth	wireless os disappearing.	03:34
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mortini	obsidieth: while not as convienant, i don't have the problem when it's plugged into my laptop	03:37
mortini	depending on what you're trying to do	03:37
mortini	outside of general use.	03:37
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obsidieth	i was experimenting with 'wireless switcher' in an ill guided attempt to save battery	03:37
obsidieth	that might be it, i had no issues previously.	03:37
mortini	ah	03:38
mortini	when i first got my n900 a few weeks ago, i was trying to download pr1.2 & it kept dying on me	03:38
mortini	because of that, i think, idk, it was super annoying.	03:38
obsidieth	owch	03:38
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obsidieth	hmm anyone been using cpan for perl modules	03:46
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obsidieth	seems to be exploded by gzip.	03:49
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obsidieth	Going to read /home/user/.cpan/sources/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz	03:53
obsidieth	/bin/gzip: unrecognized option `--decompress'	03:53
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n900-1	what is rx71 ?	03:57
n900-1	anybody knows	03:57
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n900-1	ab $ mad list Targets: harmattan-1021 (installable) fremantle-pr12 (default) maemo412-1 (installable) Runtimes: rx71-harmattan-1021 (installable) rx51-fremantle-pr12 (default) rx48-diablo (installable)	03:57
n900-1	mad terminal shows that	03:57
mortini	obsidieth: might need to install the gnu-gzip	03:57
mortini	and gnu-tar packages	03:58
mortini	i know i had issues with the busybox tar not working properly on some tarballs	03:58
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arachnist	n900-1: an unknown device by nokia. possibly a phone, tablet or a development board	04:03
ManoftheSea	arachnist: that's a pretty good guess.	04:05
ManoftheSea	"device X: an unknown device by an unknown company, possibly made of matter"	04:06
obsidieth	hmm. what repo are they in.	04:06
obsidieth	pure 'gzip' involves dependency hell. and i see no gnu-gzip package.	04:06
n900-1	its in the "mad list" of the new madde installed with the qt sdk 1.0 arachnist	04:07
arachnist	n900-1: so it would seem that nokia people are already developing/testing software for that device	04:08
n900-1	Runtimes:	04:08
n900-1	rx71-harmattan-1021 (installable)	04:08
n900-1	rx51-fremantle-pr12 (default)	04:09
n900-1	rx48-diablo (installable)	04:09
n900-1	Targets:	04:09
n900-1	harmattan-1021 (installable)	04:09
n900-1	fremantle-pr12 (default)	04:09
n900-1	maemo412-1 (installable)	04:09
obsidieth	hmm.	04:09
obsidieth	basically im just trying to obtain 'IO::Socket::INET6'	04:10
obsidieth	maybe ill have to compile a full gzip?	04:10
mortini	obsidieth: sorry, i thought there was a gnu-gzip, just a gnu-tar	04:11
mortini	try building it manually?	04:11
mortini	or, extracting it and then building it manually?	04:11
obsidieth	theres a gzip on the forum, but	04:12
obsidieth	it throws anohter error in cpan	04:12
obsidieth	Going to read /home/user/.cpan/sources/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz	04:12
obsidieth	Can't exec "/home/user/gzip": Not a directory at /usr/lib/perl/5.8/IO/File.pm line 70, <FIN> line 1.	04:12
obsidieth	Could not pipe[/home/user/gzip --decompress --stdout /home/user/.cpan/sources/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz \|]: Not a directory at /usr/share/perl/5.8/CPAN.pm line 5728, <FIN> line 1.	04:12
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arachnist	huh	04:14
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mortini	obsidieth: imo, go manaully grab the file	04:14
mortini	copy it over and try it yourself	04:15
Macer	funny thing	04:15
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mortini	wget http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/S/SH/SHLOMIF/IO-Socket-INET6-2.65.tar.gz	04:15
Macer	i have almost completely stopped using laptops and PCs and use my n900 more than anything	04:15
mortini	dammit. no wget.	04:16
Macer	if it had cups and real bluetooth keyboard support i wouldnt need a laptop	04:16
Macer	:)	04:16
Macer	any plans to add either?	04:16
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n900-1	Macer: n900 is awesome, but i just want to replace its keyboard with a one that has softer keys :) .. when i write a lot on it, i keep going back to the virtual keyboard, and vkbs i dont like	04:17
Macer	i want bluetooth kb support like maemo4 had on my n810	04:17
Macer	with su8w support	04:17
mortini	dammit, i hate it when i screen in screen.	04:17
Macer	or any travel keyboard will do tbh	04:18
n900-1	i cant carry a keyboard .. and i want to write a lot ..	04:18
Macer	and a working koffice would be great	04:18
obsidieth	seems like a good idea.	04:18
Macer	with cups support	04:18
n900-1	if the keys were a lil soft in pressing, it wudnt tire me ever from writing on n900	04:18
Macer	my su8w is the same size as the n900	04:19
Macer	heh	04:19
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Macer	folded it easily fits in a pocket	04:19
n900-1	aha cool	04:19
Macer	there are a few traveling keyboards like that	04:19
ptl	I had a bluetooth keyboard	04:19
ptl	I sold it	04:19
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n900-1	what is it, i havent seen it	04:19
ptl	I don't think it's practical	04:19
n900-1	give me some link, or a name i can google Macer	04:20
Macer	ptl: i loved using it with my n810	04:20
ptl	hmm	04:20
Macer	just image google it	04:20
Macer	nokia su8w	04:20
ptl	maybe mine wasn't practical	04:20
ptl	and batteries and such	04:20
n900-1	ok	04:20
ptl	I know nokia su8w	04:20
n900-1	doing it	04:20
mortini	obsidieth: 'course, the dependancies will suck	04:20
mortini	\	04:20
ptl	it was just a little smaller than mine	04:20
Macer	heh	04:20
Macer	ptl: i used to use cups with my n810	04:21
Macer	it was awesome	04:21
Macer	i didnt need a laptop	04:21
Macer	for school	04:21
Macer	used to use my n95 more	04:21
ptl	I never even tried to use cups in N900. Is it easy to print via bluetooth?	04:21
Macer	i dont think there is cups for n900/maemo 5	04:21
Macer	nor any apps that support it	04:22
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n900-1	yea this looks cute :)	04:22
n900-1	shud have it !! Must have it now !!	04:22
Macer	on the n810 i used PB's kde chroot	04:22
n900-1	can always have it around in my backpack	04:22
n900-1	how much is it for	04:22
Macer	n900-1: not worth buying for the n900	04:22
Macer	the bt keyboard support is a pain to do	04:23
Macer	no support for it in the ui	04:23
Macer	and requires remapping	04:23
Macer	i was only able to get it to work properly when the n900 was open	04:23
Macer	which seems a step backwards	04:24
obsidieth	let us see.	04:24
Macer	considering the n810/maemo 4 worked fine with it	04:24
pupnik	it is difficult for a linux geek to care about n900 discussions - they revolve around theings we do not care about	04:24
ptl	Macer: you can use cups via easy debian	04:25
Macer	ptl: i considered that	04:25
obsidieth	eh. does this tar have different syntax	04:25
Macer	since ooffice is included	04:25
Macer	but	04:25
Macer	i need bt keyboard support	04:25
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Macer	i want an ultra portable office suite	04:26
Macer	:)	04:26
Macer	it would be nice if all this could be native	04:26
Macer	i remember seeing work done on a maemo ver of koffice	04:27
Macer	wonder how far along that has gotten	04:27
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n900-1	well maybe nokia doesn something that wud add the support for it	04:29
n900-1	does*	04:30
Macer	heh	04:30
Macer	well the lack of bt kb support sucks	04:30
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obsidieth	hmm im almost there	04:32
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obsidieth	it looked like the module compiled, but i dont see it.	04:32
pigeon	i thought bt kb works with the n900?	04:33
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flailingmonkey	i've heard it works from some people, but i've also heard that it doesn't	04:35
pigeon	speaking of which, i was trying to get a bt mouse working with the n900, they paired ok, but that's about it.	04:35
flailingmonkey	after enabling bluetooth HID, you need a pc102 layout (usually) and there isn't one	04:36
flailingmonkey	no cursor probably would be and issue	04:36
pigeon	not only that i think.	04:36
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pigeon	it feels more like they're not connected.	04:36
pigeon	and i couldn't get them to connect	04:37
obsidieth	another thing, has anyone had success running irssi with perl scripting included? seems like a custopm build might be needd there too.	04:37
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Macer	there... filed a bug for bt keyboard support	04:38
ptl	22:45 *** Irssi: Unknown command: script	04:39
ptl	dang	04:39
ptl	no luck	04:39
Macer	do people still use scripts?	04:40
Macer	:)	04:40
Macer	last i remember was using venom in ircii heh	04:40
obsidieth	perl modules done, that worked nicely.	04:41
obsidieth	just had to build one dependency :D	04:41
ptl	for irssi?	04:42
obsidieth	but yeah, it seems the binary of irssi hasnt got perl enabled.	04:42
obsidieth	eh, i was messing with some v6 perl.	04:42
obsidieth	io::socket:inet6	04:42
ptl	ok	04:42
ptl	I thought you had built irssi with perl support for maemo	04:42
obsidieth	i will try and build it from scratch some time soon.	04:42
obsidieth	if it cannot just be turned on	04:42
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ptl	don't forget to optify it	04:45
obsidieth	im not sure what that is.	04:45
ptl	obsidieth: http://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem	04:47
flailingmonkey	it's a fun maemoism	04:49
dotblank	hmm I get this error when trying to deploy my Qt app	04:50
dotblank	Deployment failed: Could not copy local file '/scratchbox/users/eli/home/eli/qt4/Groove-build/groove' to remote file '/home/developer/groove': SFTP Error code: <4>, description: Failure.	04:50
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the_lord-n900	MohammadAG51, ping	04:55
dotblank	oh nvm gdb had messed up	04:56
flailingmonkey	night	04:56
the_lord-n900	hi, I'm having trouble installing ovi store apps from apt-get	04:57
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the_lord-n900	I've read the forums and I know it's a problem with apt, and I can solve it installing a previous version of it, but I can't find it	04:58
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG51 had a link I think.	04:59
SpeedEvil	I forget	04:59
the_lord-n900	SpeedEvil, yes, but the link is broken	04:59
Macer	was chromium removed?	05:00
Macer	i wanted to try iy	05:00
Macer	it	05:00
Macer	going to try tear i suppose	05:01
Macer	tear wasnt so bad	05:02
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Macer	guess tear wont run	05:04
Macer	:/	05:04
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pigeon	Macer: chromium was removed, yes	05:13
pyther	Hi	05:16
pyther	I have my phone set to connect to wifi automatically, does that mean it will ask me to connect to the 3g?	05:17
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Macer	pigeon: any reason why?	05:19
pigeon	Macer: http://maemo.org/community/council/chromium-removed_from_maemo-org_repositories/	05:22
SpeedEvil	pyther: no	05:23
SpeedEvil	wireless and 3g are seperate	05:24
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Macer	pigeon: hahaha	05:24
Macer	wtf?	05:24
Macer	isnt chrome open source?	05:24
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Macer	oh	05:25
Macer	redbend?	05:25
Macer	wtf? lame	05:25
arachnist	Macer: chrome isn't. chromium is.	05:27
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pyther	SpeedEvil: so since wireless is automatic it will also connect me to the 2g/3g automatically?	05:27
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arachnist	pyther: it will only connect to wifi if you set it to connect automatically only to wifi	05:28
Macer	arachnist: which is what the repo had isnt it?	05:28
Macer	a chromium build?	05:29
Macer	blah. whatever :)	05:29
pigeon	Macer: i'm as confused as you are	05:29
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SpeedEvil	pyther: no.	05:36
SpeedEvil	Go to settings ->wireless->connect automatically	05:37
SpeedEvil	'always ask' = it always asks you if you want to	05:37
SpeedEvil	'wlan' = always for wlan	05:37
SpeedEvil	'your network operator' - always connect automatially to that network	05:38
SpeedEvil	'any connection' - connect automatically to anything	05:38
SpeedEvil	The latter can be dangerous near UFOs.	05:38
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pyther	SpeedEvil: so if I have wlan automatically it will ask me for to connect to the 2g/3g connection?	05:40
arachnist	pyther: only if no wlan is around that you conneted to before	05:40
pyther	ok great	05:41
pyther	and then with mms will that use the 2g/3g connection automagically?	05:41
SpeedEvil	only if you install fmms	05:43
SpeedEvil	otherwise no	05:43
pyther	ok i installed fmms but the network settings seem to be wrong	05:43
SpeedEvil	and even then, I think you can set it up	05:43
pyther	I used what was in the wiki and it failed :(	05:43
pyther	I thuogh maybe it was trying to use my wifi connection	05:43
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pigeon	http://gizmodo.com/5571171/iphone-4-loses-reception-when-you-hold-it-by-the-antenna-band	05:48
pigeon	that makes me wonder, where is the antenna of the n900?	05:48
asj	pigeon: take the back cover off, I think you can see them there	05:48
SpeedEvil	pigeon: It is around 17 inches to the right of the right-hand side of the case.	05:48
pigeon	hmm	05:49
SpeedEvil	Or more accurately, below the camera button, and right-hand speaker	05:49
SpeedEvil	that is - the 3g	05:49
SpeedEvil	2g/3g	05:49
asj	apples' answer to the problem, which I dunno I can't give them to hard of a time over: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/apple-responds-over-iphone-4-reception-issues-youre-holding-th/	05:49
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SpeedEvil	This is pretty much unavoidable.	05:51
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SpeedEvil	The n900 has noticably poorer 3g reception with the screen open, and your hand over the antenna	05:51
SpeedEvil	as you will, when typing	05:51
SpeedEvil	Well - if you use two thumbs	05:51
asj	it was very noticeable on the n97, in week signal strength you had to hold it with your finger tips and not like a gorrila grip with your palm covering the whole back	05:52
pigeon	SpeedEvil: that's good to know	05:53
asj	it's also hard when people want all metal cases, there's any so many locations you can put plastic bits to let it radiate	05:53
asj	s/any/only/	05:53
infobot	asj meant: it's also hard when people want all metal cases, there's only so many locations you can put plastic bits to let it radiate	05:53
SpeedEvil	yeah	05:54
asj	the 3g ipad I think takes a big design hit with it's big black plastic bar across the top. of course it advertises to everyone "hey look, not only am I rich enough to spend $1000 on an ipad, I bought the fancy 3g one"	05:55
GeneralAntilles	Who spends $1000?	05:56
pigeon	i got the non-3g one cos the 3g ones sold out, and my wife couldn't wait.	05:56
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asj	GeneralAntilles: hmm?	05:56
GeneralAntilles	Top-of-the-line iPad costs $829	05:56
arachnist	http://gl.ict.usc.edu/Research/3DDisplay/	05:56
asj	GeneralAntilles: ah, $AU1000	05:56
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GeneralAntilles	Ah	05:57
pigeon	turns out it wasn't that bad, i just get the ipad tether to my n900 for internet, works quite well.	05:57
dotblank	pigeon, nice	05:57
pyther	I can't get my phone out of my otterbox case :(	05:58
asj	3g ipad has a nice telstra pre-paid data plan, $20/mo for 1gig. It beats their $10 for 150meg option	05:58
pigeon	asj: you're in au too?	05:58
asj	ayup	05:58
pigeon	ah, me in sydney	05:58
asj	pigeon: brissy	05:58
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luke-jr	iPad = lame	06:11
asj	I would like an iPad like device running maemo/meego, bah then I would need a mad purse, which is the problem	06:12
SpeedEvil	Naah. back holster.	06:14
SpeedEvil	I want a device the size of the ipod that is robust enough to beat blendtek	06:15
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luke-jr	asj: TouchBook?	06:15
luke-jr	so um, I have a question/theory	06:16
luke-jr	my N900 hasn't been on power for about 5 hours now...	06:16
luke-jr	battery meter is still 100%	06:16
luke-jr	theory: N900 lies	06:16
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pyther	Anyone on ATT USA using mms messaging?	06:20
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: using it?	06:22
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: The battery meter canbe somewhat inaccurate	06:23
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: However - I get a standby of ~120 hours idle	06:23
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: sortof	06:23
luke-jr	5 hours is > 1% of 120 :)	06:23
luke-jr	I tried playing with the FM transmitter earlier	06:24
luke-jr	didn't work, but if it did should have drained the battery a bit	06:24
SpeedEvil	fmtx uses almost no power	06:24
SpeedEvil	The transmitted power is ~50nW	06:24
luke-jr	o	06:24
asj	luke-jr: make a crypted sip call :)	06:24
luke-jr	asj: I don't think my endpoints support encryption	06:25
luke-jr	did at least 5 minutes of SIP calling tho	06:25
asj	luke-jr: oh well, find one that does, that's 100% cpu and wifi with power saving disabled	06:25
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Radio_Transmitter - see inherent limitations	06:26
asj	luke-jr: why not just install Battery Graph? then you can get pretty graphs too	06:27
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: well, it didn't work from driver's lap to car radio	06:28
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SpeedEvil	luke-jr: yes- see above page	06:29
SpeedEvil	esp bbc quote	06:29
luke-jr	it talks about 4m...	06:29
luke-jr	4m isn't that bad, in theory	06:30
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pyther	Is there a place to enter in a phone number on the current fmms app?	06:42
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ham5	still want my dial pad to come up with I go into the phone	07:02
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asj	ham5: huh?	07:03
ham5	open the phone and it goes to the dial pad not recent calls...	07:03
ham5	that should be an option	07:04
asj	ok, write an app	07:04
asj	of course it's still faster just to type a number on the homescreen	07:04
ham5	have to open the keyboard	07:05
ham5	boo	07:05
asj	it's there for a reason ;)	07:05
pyther	Yippy got MMS messaging to work	07:09
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pyther	Does anyone knowif there is a buddy list desktop application?	07:18
mandara	is maxima available in fremantle? can't find it in http://maemo.org/packages/	07:19
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ptl	no, it's not	07:20
ptl	but it would be easy to recompil eit	07:20
ptl	*recompile it using scratchbox	07:20
mandara	ptl, ok, thnx!	07:21
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Termana	yello	08:22
asj	organge	08:22
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vldcnst	green is the new color guys	08:24
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PhonoN900	blue	08:26
luke-jr	indigo	08:27
PhonoN900	I watched the USA World Cup win live on my phone. Guess gow many other phones were able to stream that match live via some random flash-based site	08:29
asj	maroon!!!!!	08:29
PhonoN900	go ahead, guess...	08:30
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PhonoN900	It was a trick question. There are no other phones capable of such awesomness.	08:32
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* PhonoN900 pumps fist		08:32
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luke-jr	PhonoN900: that's not a feature	08:32
luke-jr	it's a bug	08:32
luke-jr	Flash = crap	08:32
luke-jr	also, N900 isn't a phone	08:32
luke-jr	so your argument is fail	08:33
luke-jr	ask how many handheld computers are capable of such "awesomeness" next time	08:33
luke-jr	then you'll realize there's nothing special about it	08:33
luke-jr	if you want to brag about N900/Maemo, go for the integration aspect ;)	08:34
luke-jr	or the 5MPcamera	08:34
luke-jr	that component is actually useful	08:35
asj	luke-jr: oh come now	08:35
luke-jr	too bad the GPS doesn't work, or it'd do geotagging too	08:35
PhonoN900	Well, one could say the same of football. But, the World Cup is exciting. So, streaming the World Cup is exciting. All very exciting	08:35
luke-jr	PhonoN900: I don't even know or care what this "World Cup" is	08:35
luke-jr	a bunch of adults being paid to play childrens' games?	08:35
TigerTael	heh	08:35
asj	luke-jr: you bash the n900 for doing flash, then say "look it's it's wonderful 5mpx camera" which if are follow your reasoning is 3 year old tech and just as lame as doing flash	08:36
luke-jr	asj: no, Flash sucks in general	08:36
luke-jr	cameras are pretty nice	08:36
PhonoN900	luke-jr: It is a phone.	08:36
pyther	flash is closed and is buggy	08:36
luke-jr	it's the integration that makes the N900's camera special	08:36
luke-jr	PhonoN900: nope	08:36
luke-jr	PhonoN900: it's a handheld computer	08:37
luke-jr	the earlier models didn't even support cellular networks	08:37
asj	luke-jr: you're caught in the trap, of what you want is what everyone else wants	08:37
PhonoN900	It's pretty simple. It has a quad-band gsm module. It is a phone.	08:38
luke-jr	asj: what makes you think I want Maemo? :p	08:38
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asj	luke-jr: you typed /join #maemo	08:38
luke-jr	PhonoN900: by that logic, iPad and many other obvious non-phones are also phones	08:38
asj	luke-jr: ipad doesn't make voice calls	08:38
luke-jr	asj: no, I didn't.	08:38
PhonoN900	Negative	08:38
luke-jr	asj: my point exactly	08:38
asj	luke-jr: n900 makes phone calls just fine, it's one of the first things the intro video does :)	08:39
luke-jr	the N900 hardware is no doubt capable of being a phone... like if you install Android	08:39
luke-jr	but the older models never could have been, and Maemo wasn't designed to be a phone platform	08:39
luke-jr	asj: my desktop PC makes phone calls just fine.	08:40
luke-jr	being able to make a call doesn't make a device a phone	08:40
asj	luke-jr: no one has ever said n800, so you can't even argue that point if you want to be pedantic	08:40
luke-jr	N800 is nothing less than an older model of the NIT line	08:40
luke-jr	it is a predecessor of N900	08:40
asj	luke-jr: sure, you can's shove your computer in your pocket and walk around the streets	08:40
luke-jr	and N810 is a direct predecessor of N900	08:41
luke-jr	asj: I can shove many of my computers in my pocket	08:41
luke-jr	or at least C760 and N810	08:41
PhonoN900	we all know exactly what we mean. Pedantic bullshit is bullshit	08:41
raster	out of the box the n900 is capable of making and recieving phone calls and sms's - it is capable of remaining attached to a network ready to make calls for days. it is a phone. that is what all phones do too.	08:41
asj	PhonoN900: ^5	08:41
luke-jr	raster: my N900 wasn't	08:41
raster	if you wish to have some other personal definition of phone - that's your business	08:42
raster	luke-jr: mine did	08:42
luke-jr	phones only do that	08:42
luke-jr	raster: really? you didn't need to install a SIM card?	08:42
raster	i stuck a sim card in and replaced my phone with it	08:42
asj	luke-jr: we also bought ours	08:42
luke-jr	asj: irrelevant detail	08:42
raster	it was about one of the buggiest phones i've had - only openmoko beat it :)	08:42
asj	raster: you never owned an n97 v10.0.x obviously	08:42
luke-jr	lol	08:42
raster	luke-jr: putting in a sim card is required of almost every phone (except cdma)	08:43
raster	who puts it is is irrelevant	08:43
luke-jr	asj: FWIW, there is no compatible 3G service here	08:43
asj	luke-jr: where are you btw?	08:43
luke-jr	Nebraska	08:43
luke-jr	everything is CDMA	08:43
luke-jr	except AT&T, and N900 doesn't support their frequencies	08:43
raster	if your minhdset is an american - i live incdma land one where sim cards are rare/not relevant	08:43
raster	then u are in the vast minority of people in the world	08:44
luke-jr	sure	08:44
raster	world-wide sim cards are by far and wide THE primary way a phone device accesses a network	08:44
luke-jr	my point is this: a phone would be useless without service	08:44
asj	luke-jr: umm, you know the n900 does gsm right?	08:44
raster	the shop may put it in when u buy the phone and get a contract there	08:44
luke-jr	asj: sure	08:44
raster	u may buy a phone separatelyt and then just geta pre-paid sim card account	08:44
asj	and both tmo and att I'm sure have coverage at least along bits if i-80	08:44
raster	or even a contract plan on one	08:44
raster	its largely irrelevant	08:44
raster	the n900 is a phone by all accepted properties of a phone	08:45
luke-jr	asj: TMo claims to not have service here	08:45
raster	it is small/portable, lasts long enough to take around with you all day to make/get calls and sms's	08:45
raster	and it actually does that	08:45
luke-jr	raster: a phone is useless without service; N900 isn't	08:45
raster	so it's a phone	08:45
PhonoN900	well anyhow, it's a hell of a device	08:45
raster	luke-jr: 100% incorrect	08:45
raster	you may think of a dumphone (featurephone)	08:45
raster	the ones that put up a nice "please inser sim card" and refuse to work without one	08:46
raster	if thats what you think - then you think in a very different decade	08:46
raster	like maybe 1990's	08:46
raster	:)	08:46
raster	is the g1 a phone?	08:46
luke-jr	raster: so you think that by adding a GSM module, the N900 gets moved from the (superior) handheld computer category into the (inferior) phone category?	08:46
raster	inferior or superior is your own addition	08:47
raster	thats an evaluation i frankly do not share	08:47
raster	and i bet ylou many others wqill disagree with you too	08:47
asj	considering nokia sold <100k n800s I'm not sure which is superior eh?	08:47
raster	phones have been computers for a long time	08:47
raster	in terms of hardware	08:47
raster	only software was different	08:47
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luke-jr	asj: considering most n00bs who come in here seem to think N900 is a phone, you need to adjust your statistics	08:48
raster	they have cpu's, ram, disk (flash), modems, network (bt, wifi), screens, and many more peripherals	08:48
raster	they suspend and resume	08:48
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chOne	hey everyone	08:48
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luke-jr	raster: 'computer' usually means general purpose	08:48
arachnist	and they have a multitasking-capable os	08:48
chOne	umm is there any chrome browser related channel on freenode?	08:48
asj	luke-jr: it's a phone just like symbian is a phone, iphone is a phone, and most android devices are	08:49
luke-jr	Symbian, iPhone, and Android were designed to be phone platforms.	08:49
luke-jr	Maemo was not.	08:49
luke-jr	cellular capabilities were only just added in version 5	08:49
asj	luke-jr: ah, but Fremantle was :)	08:49
PhonoN900	jeeze	08:49
raster	luke-jr: phones hw-wise are general purpose	08:49
raster	no more or less than the n900	08:50
raster	see above	08:50
luke-jr	raster: we're talking about software, not hardware	08:50
raster	difference is OS	08:50
raster	as of symbian they had a general purpose multi tasking os	08:50
raster	actually before that even	08:50
raster	tron	08:50
raster	symbian	08:50
luke-jr	TRON is a movie	08:50
raster	winmo/pocketpc, android	08:50
raster	i can go on	08:50
raster	tron is also an os	08:50
raster	as is nucleus	08:51
raster	itron (derivative of tron)	08:51
raster	and many others	08:51
ljp	tron this!	08:51
pyther	Can I remove the apps that are in the menu that want to download themselves?	08:51
PhonoN900	luke-jr: to the original point then: name a mobile computing device no larger than the n900 that would be able to stream a live feed via flash of the World Cup over 3G	08:51
asj	PhonoN900: lol, he'll argue with that	08:52
raster	PhonoN900: nexus one	08:52
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raster	htc incredible	08:52
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raster	desire	08:52
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raster	samsung galaxy s	08:52
raster	samsung 360 h1 and n1	08:52
luke-jr	PhonoN900: that wasn't the original point	08:52
TigerTael	HTC Hero?	08:52
raster	...	08:52
luke-jr	N900 is unusually too small	08:52
raster	its a long list	08:52
raster	:)	08:52
ljp	everyone knows flash is so 90's, man	08:53
luke-jr	though I admit, it doesn't seem to be as bad as I had expected	08:53
luke-jr	now that I've seen one	08:53
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PhonoN900	raster: no android device that I'm aware of supports flash natively. am I wrong?	08:53
luke-jr	PhonoN900: nothing supports flash natively; it's all software	08:53
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luke-jr	and again, crapy software that I'd rather not have	08:54
PhonoN900	My N900 supports flash out of the box. That is what I mean	08:54
raster	PhonoN900: http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/20/flash-10-1-for-android-beta-unveiled-hulu-a-no-show-froyo-now/	08:54
luke-jr	Google "Android Flash"-- plenty of info	08:54
raster	no one said "out of the box"	08:54
asj	luke-jr: you have rm, go to town	08:54
raster	but currently not out of the box	08:55
raster	the 360 h1 and m1 will do it out of the box	08:55
PhonoN900	raster: I just did	08:55
luke-jr	asj: :)	08:55
raster	they run linux	08:55
raster	well u asked	08:55
raster	<PhonoN900> luke-jr: to the original point then: name a mobile computing device no larger than the n900 that would be able to stream a live feed via flash of the World Cup over 3G	08:55
luke-jr	PhonoN900: changing the criteria to make your point is a fallacy, I'm pretty sure	08:55
raster	nothing "out of the box" :)	08:55
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raster	brb	08:56
luke-jr	yeah, I think it's called "no true Scotsman"	08:56
raster	time to see if my network works	08:56
luke-jr	or at least closely related	08:56
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PhonoN900	luke-jr: I said name another phone that can do what my N900 did. That was the original point. Scroll up, take a look	08:56
luke-jr	PhonoN900: and raster did it	08:56
luke-jr	then you added a new qualifier "out of the box"	08:57
luke-jr	raster named two that remained with the new requirements	08:57
luke-jr	what next? :p	08:57
PhonoN900	what, the h1 and m1? never heard of them tbh	08:57
PhonoN900	have you?	08:57
luke-jr	ah, so now we add "that I have heard of"	08:57
PhonoN900	give me a sec, I'll google them	08:58
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PhonoN900	awesome stuff here http://www.google.com/search?btnG=Google+Search&q=android+h1	08:58
TigerTael	Just give it up.	08:59
TigerTael	Christ.	08:59
asj	PhonoN900: keep in mind, luke-jr is in Nebraska, other than cow tipping, there's shit all to do out there...	08:59
luke-jr	lol	08:59
luke-jr	asj: I am learning tonal, and building a pendulum for my wall schedule...	08:59
luke-jr	whilest teaching my children to do the same	08:59
luke-jr	among many other subjects	08:59
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luke-jr	I have quite a bit to do :)	09:00
raster	aha	09:00
raster	thare be network	09:00
Corsac	nobody cares about live world cup stream anyway	09:00
Corsac	and streaming through flash sucks	09:00
Corsac	and it'll take all you battery life in no time	09:00
luke-jr	Corsac: I made those points waaaaaaaaay back at the start :)	09:00
PhonoN900	the m1 seems badass too http://blog.immmooo.com/mmmooo-releases-m1.html	09:00
Corsac	now, if only the n900 could not choke when it's feeded with few gigs of photos and music, it'd be nice	09:01
luke-jr	Corsac: Linux can't handle I/O :(	09:01
Corsac	mediaplayer seems to leak, it's a bad idea to have it running all day long in the background :/	09:01
Corsac	luke-jr: it's not (only) a linux problem	09:01
PhonoN900	Corsac: Word. It does fall on it's face pretty often	09:01
luke-jr	I don't remember having that problem when I used Window...	09:01
luke-jr	of course, that was like 10 years ago	09:02
Corsac	luke-jr: I mean, there are ways to workaround that (fine tuning the kernel might help, if not done)	09:02
asj	luke-jr: /me boggles	09:02
Corsac	but anyway, the interface nor the media playing should choke on that	09:02
luke-jr	Corsac: sure. I could get more RAM so I don't need swap.	09:02
Corsac	:)	09:02
Corsac	luke-jr: 640k ought to be enough and that sort of thing	09:03
luke-jr	but DDR1 RAM is kinda expensive, so I'm holding off until my next PC	09:03
Corsac	luke-jr: in my case, my laptop's pretty ok wrt. IO	09:03
asj	PhonoN900: ok, the flashlite android app for symbian is the lamest thing I've ever seen	09:03
luke-jr	Corsac: Bill Gates might be right if we take his advice and avoid KDE	09:03
luke-jr	Corsac: I have 2 GB RAM. I use at least 2 GB swap on top of that regularly.	09:03
PhonoN900	asj: Just a quick google search, no worries	09:04
Corsac	luke-jr: my real grip is against the n900, which can't display my pictures correctly, can't display fluidly all the music I have, can't play it without jitter...	09:04
Corsac	luke-jr: I use Xfce	09:04
luke-jr	Corsac: I might try Xfce, if it didn't use GTK	09:04
Corsac	yeah if you don't like GTK+ it might not be the one for you :)	09:04
luke-jr	Corsac: I'm tempted to install Gentoo on my N900, but pondering getting it a MicroSD first, to put swap/build data on	09:05
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Corsac	I don't like Qt, but I think there's a place for a Qt-equivalent of Xfce	09:05
luke-jr	Nokia has been ruining Qt, but it's still better than GTK	09:05
luke-jr	I won't let my systems install glib/GTK/GNOME anymore :)	09:05
Corsac	(though seeing the manpower missing for Xfce, I'm not sure there's enough for that kind of project)	09:05
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PhonoN900	for all the N900's issues (and I admit, there are many), there are few "phones" that can do what the N900 can do.	09:07
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PhonoN900	I mean, I'm on my N900 now. Using xchat. Seriously.	09:08
rmrfchik_	PhonoN900: what special N900 can do?	09:08
luke-jr	so?	09:08
raster	firc on a g1	09:08
luke-jr	X-Chat sucks too :p	09:08
Corsac	n900 can do a lot of thing, but it doesn't do it really well	09:08
PhonoN900	PLAY FLASH FFS	09:08
luke-jr	Android has some awesome speech recognition IRC client	09:09
PhonoN900	jeeze	09:09
raster	flash is out for android	09:09
raster	why does this all have to be "out of the box"	09:09
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luke-jr	no Flash is better than Flash	09:09
PhonoN900	Corsac: It does most things prettyy well.	09:09
raster	if its available and can be trivially added/installed - it doesnt matter	09:09
Corsac	PhonoN900: I disagree	09:09
luke-jr	no Flash > installable Flash > preinstalled Flash	09:09
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PhonoN900	Corsac: Fair enough	09:09
TigerTael	Guys...	09:10
rmrfchik_	i don't care about flash	09:10
raster	the only thing the maemo has going for it that android doesnt is that it is a full linux os base	09:10
dotblank	I think my n900 is easier to developer for then any other phone	09:10
luke-jr	raster: uh, no	09:10
* PhonoN900 cares about flash content		09:10
Corsac	(it doesn't do everything bad, but still, in the end, I'm slightly disapointed about the result)	09:10
luke-jr	Maemo has X11 and Qt, and Android does not	09:10
asj	raster: plus it's Not Evil (tm)	09:10
luke-jr	other than that, they are the same	09:10
raster	with proper glibc, userspace, x11, etc. and that makes it easy - if u already develop for or use linux heavily, to use it, develop for it and adapt it	09:10
raster	unlike android which is an entirely different/foreign os	09:10
Corsac	luke-jr: and security model :)	09:11
dotblank	Qt is good... it still needs some more work but for right now.. it works perfectly fine	09:11
luke-jr	raster: Maemo doesn't use standard GNU userspace, and won't work with standard Linux	09:11
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luke-jr	Corsac: uh, no?	09:11
dotblank	igh writing in java... makes me feel sick	09:11
luke-jr	Corsac: Maemo is a single-user OS	09:11
raster	luke-jr: says who?	09:11
raster	it works for me	09:11
raster	instantly	09:11
luke-jr	raster: you've tried booting a standard Linux kernel?	09:11
raster	all the tools i am used to are there	09:11
Corsac	luke-jr: yes, so?	09:11
dotblank	luke-jr, well the kernel doe srun in multi-user mode	09:11
luke-jr	raster: BusyBox is not GNU	09:11
luke-jr	raster: try tar xjvpf	09:12
raster	busybox is good enough	09:12
Corsac	luke-jr: android has a rather complex security model, while maemo5 has basically none :)	09:12
raster	ho pedanticisms	09:12
luke-jr	dotblank: irrelevant	09:12
PhonoN900	You know what else my "phone" handles perfectly? aXXo movies. Drag and drop.	09:12
Ken-Young	luke-jr, Just install Easy Debian, and you get full gnu utilities.	09:12
Corsac	luke-jr: it's quite easy for any app to access everything on the device	09:12
raster	i've been doing linux on arm devices for about a decade	09:12
asj	raster: where have you been the last hour??? this is all about being pedantic	09:12
luke-jr	PhonoN900: sounds illegal	09:12
Corsac	or for anyone else, for that matter	09:12
raster	busybox is par of the course	09:12
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raster	it is a userspace "fileutils" that is good enough	09:12
asj	raster: he'll also argue it's not Linux because you can't boot an x86 kernel.org kernel on it	09:13
dotblank	luke-jr, axxo is just his brother and he puts his homemade movies on his phone via drag and drop	09:13
raster	asj: time to give up	09:13
raster	i have better things to do	09:13
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luke-jr	asj: kernel.org doesn't build binaries	09:13
rmrfchik_	asj: lol	09:13
PhonoN900	I've had a few phones, and nothing handles divx better than my N900 ('cept my laptop)	09:13
asj	raster: and now he's going to argue with me about that ;) told you Nebraska makes ya strange	09:13
raster	maemo is a proper linux userspace by all accepted definitions i have ever seen when it comes to running on arm devices like this	09:13
dotblank	I ahve to say my old Palm OS actually handled movies really really well	09:14
luke-jr	raster: even if you ported N900 hardware support to Linux, Maemo wouldn't boot with it	09:14
raster	i've been doing it for long enough i think to realise that	09:14
raster	but if others want to be pedantic... let them	09:14
luke-jr	raster: proper, yes. full, no.	09:14
asj	ah well it's quiting time :)	09:14
rmrfchik_	PhonoN900: it wiil be better for N900 to play music without jerking	09:14
PhonoN900	Again, name a "phone" that can run divx out of the box.	09:14
luke-jr	PhonoN900: the fact that N900 can just proves it isn't a phone	09:14
rmrfchik_	damn... music skipping drives me mad	09:14
PhonoN900	Or, name a phone that can run VLC	09:14
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asj	rmrfchik_: the choice of pa probably screwed em there	09:14
raster	luke-jr: you really need to learn something of these devices, hardware etc. etc.	09:14
dotblank	rmrfchik_, Have you tried a different player	09:15
raster	each soc is basically a new hardware platform	09:15
raster	eg like a whole new pc arch	09:15
raster	yes - a standard from kernel-org kernel wont work	09:15
luke-jr	raster: seeing as I'm pretty involved in porting Linux to N8x0, that comment seems misdirected :)	09:15
raster	partly due to russel king simply getting in the way	09:15
raster	partly due to companies not having traditionally wanted to upstream	09:15
luke-jr	raster: I'm not talking about hardware support issues here	09:15
rmrfchik	dotblank: yes. it's not handy. "headset daemon" pauses only built-in player, and I use this feature	09:15
raster	then why "boot a kernel" ?	09:15
luke-jr	raster: I'm talking about Maemo depending on non-standard features	09:16
luke-jr	like /proc/bootreason	09:16
raster	thats in the name of producing a product that works	09:16
raster	u cant rely on standard features for everything	09:16
luke-jr	bad excuse	09:16
raster	there is not always a "standard" for what u want	09:16
raster	and u have a product to get out	09:16
luke-jr	then make it optional	09:16
raster	so u deal with it	09:16
PhonoN900	luke-jr: I'm talking with you over 3G. That means it has phone capabilities, at the least	09:17
luke-jr	if /proc/bootreason is missing, ignore it in some sane way and move on	09:17
raster	more often than not its simply a product requirement and the developer assigned to do it didnt know there was such a standard or feature	09:17
luke-jr	PhonoN900: phone capabilities doesn't make it a phone	09:17
raster	and impelemented it another way	09:17
PhonoN900	That it can exploit those to deliver voice makes it a "phone"	09:17
luke-jr	raster: and this is why companies are a bad environment for development	09:17
raster	PhonoN900: don't worry. you're right :)	09:17
PhonoN900	raster: I know :)	09:18
luke-jr	yawn	09:18
raster	luke-jr: i'm afraid i disagree	09:18
raster	as companies provide a very importan tthing... MONEY	09:18
dotblank	I like being able to scp music to my phone	09:18
raster	withotu that very little gets done	09:18
dotblank	I think thats cool	09:18
PhonoN900	it's been fun though, glad I spoke up :)	09:19
luke-jr	too bad you can't buy a N900 w/o buying Maemo ;)	09:19
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PhonoN900	That World Cup shit was epic. It made me happy.	09:19
luke-jr	one of those four letter words belongs. the other doesn't.	09:20
luke-jr	:P	09:20
PhonoN900	luke-jr: You can dualboot android 2.1	09:20
luke-jr	PhonoN900: I can probably dualboot Gentoo too	09:20
luke-jr	and probably will	09:20
luke-jr	and install KDE	09:20
PhonoN900	well there you go.	09:20
magic_silver_box	http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/	09:20
dotblank	so meego handset I think is approaching very soon	09:21
pupnik	really, thanks	09:21
PhonoN900	What's with all the hate then? Sincerely?	09:21
luke-jr	it's very simple	09:21
PhonoN900	@luke-jr	09:22
PhonoN900	umhum???	09:22
luke-jr	http://xkcd.com/386/	09:22
pupnik	when does whining become whinging?	09:23
PhonoN900	I don't know how to click/select the url. Let's hear a synopsis, please, luke-jr.	09:24
luke-jr	...	09:24
Corsac	xchat can't click on an url?	09:24
PhonoN900	honestly, I'd click on it if I could	09:24
luke-jr	"Are you coming to bed?" "I can't. This is important." "What?" "Someone is wrong on the internet."	09:24
PhonoN900	classic :)	09:25
PhonoN900	op, got it. please hold	09:25
PhonoN900	luke-jr: fine synopsis	09:26
PhonoN900	clicking on shit does work. my fault	09:26
PhonoN900	luke-jr: Do you have an N900?	09:28
PhonoN900	just for the sake of conversation	09:29
luke-jr	yes	09:29
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* PhonoN900 is having a fine time		09:29
PhonoN900	do you like it?	09:29
luke-jr	dunno yet	09:29
luke-jr	still forming an opinion	09:30
PhonoN900	did you just get it?	09:30
* magic_silver_box is wrong on the internet.		09:30
luke-jr	Monday or Tuesday	09:30
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PhonoN900	right on	09:30
PhonoN900	The browser is pretty ill	09:31
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luke-jr	kinda wish I knew who sent it so I can clarify what I'm expected to do in exchange <.<	09:31
* magic_silver_box slaps ChanServ around a bit with a large trout		09:32
luke-jr	guess I can reply to the email asking for my address...	09:32
PhonoN900	I have issues with stuttering Panuchi playback. Also sometimes it lags to such an extent that I have to set it down, for fear of throwing it through a floor	09:32
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PhonoN900	but for the most part (aside from placing a quick call to the wife) I like it. Nice, high resolution display... great codec support. .. awesome browser... decent battery life...	09:34
PhonoN900	and oc'd to 850, it just hums	09:35
luke-jr	fail	09:35
PhonoN900	can definitely feel the lack of physical memory	09:36
PhonoN900	fail what?	09:36
raster	PhonoN900: how's your battery life? :)	09:36
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PhonoN900	raster: It's pretty good. Not as good as my E71, better than my N95	09:37
luke-jr	PhonoN900: overclocking = void warranty + device dies sooner	09:37
PhonoN900	luke-jr: don't be a girl about it	09:37
PhonoN900	it works fine	09:38
raster	PhonoN900: ever @ 850mhz?	09:38
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luke-jr	PhonoN900: of course it works fine	09:38
luke-jr	why wouldn't it?	09:38
PhonoN900	that's what it's at right now	09:39
raster	PhonoN900: don't worry about the oc - sure. it'll die sooner. lasts 4 years instead of 15 :)	09:39
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luke-jr	overclocking doesn't damage immediate usability (unless you go to extremes), it damages longevity and battery use	09:39
raster	(numbers pulled out of arse - but u get the drift)	09:39
luke-jr	or 1 instead of 4	09:39
raster	omaps are built to run much more than 4 :)	09:39
PhonoN900	raster: if you meant how's the batt life @850, that's what I was referencng above. better than some, worse than others	09:40
raster	yeah	09:40
raster	that was my ref	09:40
raster	fair enough	09:40
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PhonoN900	raster: exactly	09:40
raster	the n900 isnt the beefiest one	09:40
luke-jr	I was surprised by the thickness	09:41
luke-jr	N900 is at least 2x as thick as N810 was	09:41
raster	tho i am used to other soc's daily clocking in at 800->1000+ as the nominal normal rate	09:41
raster	not oc	09:41
PhonoN900	man, the scroll bar in xchat is a bitch	09:41
raster	n900 is indeed a very fat device	09:41
raster	embarrassing almost	09:41
raster	:)	09:41
luke-jr	meh, not fat	09:41
raster	it'd fat.	09:41
luke-jr	it could be thicker without being inconvenient	09:41
raster	it's	09:41
PhonoN900	indeed, it's a chubby fucker	09:41
raster	but i have desks full of devices much slimmer, faster and slicker.	09:42
luke-jr	it's still thinner than my C760	09:42
raster	but i'm spoilt.	09:42
raster	so take that with a grain of salt	09:42
PhonoN900	i like my bitc er phones with a bit of meat on their bones	09:42
raster	hahahaha	09:43
jd	i never get really god battery life on the n900 and i rarely even have any app open and i only connect to gprs when i need it which is not even 1h a day	09:43
luke-jr	I like my C760's form factor	09:43
raster	i like mine sleek and glowing	09:43
raster	:)	09:43
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PhonoN900	jd: I keep my backlight @ 3. Seems to help	09:44
jd	mine is at 2	09:44
jd	and i don't have any widgets or anything draining battery	09:44
PhonoN900	jd: well then...	09:44
jd	but i can't seem to make it to barely 8h of battery life	09:44
luke-jr	jd: mine took 6 hours to drop below 100%	09:44
jd	how?	09:44
luke-jr	shrug	09:44
jd	i noticed a bit of a battery improvement in PR1.2	09:45
PhonoN900	jd: I don't make 8 either, probably... I've always got mine plugged into the computer @ work	09:45
jd	other than the battery the n900 is the best device ever	09:45
luke-jr	jd: maybe because I have no SIM	09:45
`0660	mine usually lasts all day even with 3g, skype and fb-chat	09:46
PhonoN900	honestly though, if I leave it alone in my pocket, or just sitting around @ my house, it'll last forever.	09:46
PhonoN900	but if I use it, no more than 8 hours off charger	09:47
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PhonoN900	hell, it's plugged into the wall right now	09:47
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PhonoN900	luke-jr: if you've only just gotten the "phone", for your own sanity, try not to be SO negative. there's no fun in dissing something you spent a mint on	09:51
PhonoN900	cheers though, catch y'all next time	09:52
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jd	hi PhonoN900	09:55
PhonoN900	meh, fuck :) not like I have anything better to do	09:55
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dotblank	PhonoN900, want to test my app?	09:55
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PhonoN900	dotblank: maybe... what does it do?	09:56
jd	irc is a good way to waste time	09:56
PhonoN900	jd: word	09:56
dotblank	PhonoN900, groove shark client.. I added playlist support but its acting funky	09:56
jd	i always get on xchat from work from my n900 :P	09:57
PhonoN900	it's been a while since I screwed around in IRC. it destroys my battery, unfortunately	09:57
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PhonoN900	dotblank: sure, let's do this	09:58
* PhonoN900 pumps fist		09:58
dotblank	PhonoN900, do you ahve a sdk or a scratchbox environment? if you don't I can just send you build binaries	09:59
dotblank	built*	09:59
PhonoN900	i've only got my phone...	09:59
dotblank	oh thats right.. can you click links in your xchat on your phone	10:00
Stskeeps	dotblank: how's the client coming on?	10:00
PhonoN900	i'll install whatever you're serving though	10:00
dotblank	Stskeeps, my playlist is buggy and can't fiqure out why adding songs isn't working	10:00
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PhonoN900	yes, I can click links	10:00
dotblank	Stskeeps, it plays songs once but...	10:00
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Venemo	Good morning!	10:03
dotblank	PhonoN900, one sec as I have to upload the libs and bins to my server	10:03
PhonoN900	dotblank: no worries, let me know when you're ready	10:03
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PhonoN900	Venemo: good morning	10:04
_0x47	amigadave: you are here! :)	10:04
amigadave	_0x47: morning	10:04
_0x47	morning!	10:05
Lilly	HI!	10:05
dotblank	PhonoN900, http://dotblank.selfip.com/libqjson.so.0.7.1	10:05
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dotblank	thats the library.. download that then open the terminal and copy it to /usr/lib	10:05
Lilly	Is there a guide to confirgurare filezilla to connect to openssh?	10:05
_0x47	amigadave: I set up the new target and everything. Now I'm about to build, but have one unresolved dependency. After installing all the packages from the maemo repos, "cdbs" is 0.4.48, but I need 0.4.49. I have the Ubuntu .deb here, that works fine. Is it safe to install? I mean the error did not seem to lead from there right?	10:06
amigadave	_0x47: you could check why you need the newer version, you may be able to drop the dependency	10:07
Venemo	hey folks, is there anyone here who can help me with a weird issue with the auto builder?	10:07
amigadave	but you can try using the Ubuntu package	10:07
_0x47	amigadave: how to check this? Or just lower it and hope it works?	10:08
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amigadave	_0x47: that would be my first attempt, yes ;)	10:08
_0x47	amigadave: ok, let me try that	10:08
amigadave	or you could check the changelog of the package and of cdbs to see what changes might be relevant	10:08
dotblank	PhonoN900, you'll need to be root to copy it	10:09
PhonoN900	dotblank: out of my depth, sorry... i'm in the directory where I saved it. what is the command i need to cp from/MyDocs/DOWNLOADS to /usr/lib ?	10:10
PhonoN900	i am	10:10
dotblank	PhonoN900, should be cp /home/user/MyDocs/DOWNLOADS/libqjson.so.0.7.1 /usr/lib	10:11
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hrw	morning	10:13
dotblank	PhonoN900, once the file is copied run this command ln /usr/lib/libqjson.so.0.7.1 /usr/lib/libqjson.so.0	10:15
Venemo	http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-June/026939.html	10:15
PhonoN900	dotblank: it says file exists...	10:17
dotblank	PhonoN900, for which monnad the cp or the ln?	10:17
PhonoN900	feel like i'm doing it wrong	10:17
dotblank	command*	10:17
PhonoN900	ln	10:18
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PhonoN900	Nokia-N900-42-11:/usr/lib# ln /usr/lib/libqjson.so.0.7.1 /usr/lib/libqjson.so.0ln: /usr/lib/libqjson.so.0: File exists	10:18
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dotblank	PhonoN900, can you run ls /usr/lib/libqjson*	10:19
PhonoN900	Nokia-N900-42-11:/usr/lib# ls /usr/lib/libqjson*	10:20
jpe	tried my n900 with a ford navigation system -> no go, sometimes i have a connection, sometimes not. phonebook does not show up	10:20
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PhonoN900	hold on, not right	10:20
PhonoN900	/usr/lib/libqjson.so.0 /usr/lib/libqjson.so.0.7.1	10:21
dotblank	PhonoN900, odd I have no idea how that got there...	10:21
dotblank	anyway... lets continue	10:22
PhonoN900	classic :)	10:22
dotblank	PhonoN900, http://dotblank.selfip.com/groove	10:22
PhonoN900	i'm just not savy	10:22
dotblank	just download that wherever	10:22
dotblank	then chmod +x groove	10:23
PhonoN900	3.6 mb saved to DOWNLOADS	10:23
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dotblank	in the downloads folder	10:23
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dotblank	err rather chmod+x ./groove	10:24
dotblank	chmod +x ./groove	10:24
dotblank	once thats done try running it	10:25
dotblank	./groove	10:25
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PhonoN900	i'm doing it wrong. i'm not a good tester. my apologies	10:28
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dotblank	PhonoN900, does it error or say it can't find libqjson?	10:29
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PhonoN900	dotblank: neither... as sudo, I'm in DOWNLOADS, run chmod +x ./groove	10:33
PhonoN900	and it doesn't do anything	10:33
dotblank	PhonoN900, thats ok	10:33
dotblank	PhonoN900, can you run ./groove/	10:33
dotblank	./groove	10:34
_0x47	amigadave: sry had to take a crap. The build has the same error regarding "Mix_Chunk" (was previous declared). So I'd like to check your idea regarding the SDL_Mixer version. How to do that? BTW: I decreased the dep. version of cdbs, so far no complaining...	10:34
PhonoN900	permission denied	10:35
dotblank	PhonoN900, ok try chmod +x ./groove	10:35
dotblank	without sudo	10:35
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dotblank	then run ./groove	10:36
amigadave	_0x47: you could first try removing the forward declaration and just including the SDL_Mixer header instead, might be quicker	10:37
PhonoN900	well i'm at the folder with sudo gainroot...	10:37
dotblank	PhonoN900, oh ok.. try chown user ./groove	10:37
_0x47	i think that's what I tried before, it will fail at another point then. but let me do it to insure	10:38
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dotblank	then chmod 777 ./groove	10:38
_0x47	@ amigadave	10:38
amigadave	_0x47: ok, if you want to check the SDL_Mixer version then you can do a dpkg-query --show libsdl-mixer1.2	10:39
amigadave	although the package name may be different on Ubuntu	10:39
PhonoN900	dotblank: sorry for being such a douche, like i said, out of my depth... don't put youself out trying to talk me through it. i'm a willing paticipant, just not a capable one	10:39
dotblank	PhonoN900, no no its fine	10:40
_0x47	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL2: ~/MyDocs/vcmi_armel/vcmi-0.81-svn1610] > dpkg-query --show libsdl-mixer1.2	10:40
_0x47	libsdl-mixer1.2 1:1.2.6-5+0m5	10:40
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PhonoN900	sorry man, didn't mean to waste your time with my ineptness	10:43
dotblank	PhonoN900, nah its ok. its really my fault for not providing a package so uyou can't apt-get install it	10:43
vldcnst	~botsnack	10:44
infobot	vldcnst: :)	10:44
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PhonoN900	meh! fail whale. cheers dotblank, sorry i couldn't be of assistance	10:47
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PhonoN900	it's 3 here, gotta wind down. g'night all	10:50
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ham5	how do I access the rootfs pluged into usb?	10:52
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Lilly	n900 is very better phone :) . Ihave setting filezilla to transfer file on n900 good very good	11:00
Lilly	happy to buy this phone :)	11:00
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chem\|st	moaning has bro'ken sing	11:14
chem\|st	ham5: you don't but by setting up usb networking and ssh'ing to the device	11:15
mirf	has anyone got samba working on maemo5?	11:17
mirf	I notice there is samba-common for maemo2	11:17
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mirf	might have to be my first compile :/	11:17
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Duckboot	mirf: There is som wizard-mounter-stuff - Might be in therer	11:18
chem\|st	mirf: as there are other ways...	11:18
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:18
mirf	other ways like winscp, ftp etc?	11:18
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chem\|st	Duckboot: I think he is looking for providing share not mount shares	11:19
mirf	yeah that's right chem\|st	11:19
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Duckboot	mirf: Samba is in there	11:19
Duckboot	samba - SMB/CIFS file, print, and login server for Unix	11:19
Duckboot	samba-common - common files used by both the Samba server and client	11:20
chem\|st	mirf: you might be able to "mount" / somehow to your windows, never done that but as you can run a linux atop a windows I am pretty sure someone did it already	11:20
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mirf	bit of a dirty habit of mine is putting samba shares on my linux boxes	11:21
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chem\|st	mirf: you mount samba shares between linux boxes?	11:22
mirf	nope	11:22
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chem\|st	you like to provide shares then?	11:22
mirf	yes	11:22
chem\|st	no matter if needed or not	11:22
mirf	Duckboot: I see samba-common is there but it's not valid for install	11:23
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mirf	depends how you define 'needed'	11:23
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mirf	samba shares are great to have on predominately windows networks	11:24
chem\|st	needed in "my girlfriend got windows and will never make it to mount a non windows-share to her laptop, even windows-share needs me to write a bashscript she can click on"	11:24
Corsac	even on Linux networks, cifs/samba shares are good	11:25
Corsac	I'm not sure I prefer nfs over cifs	11:25
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chem\|st	mirf: a server in between who checks for bugs/horses/viruses is what we do here	11:26
_0x47	amigadave: dunno if that makes sense, but I added the SDL_mixer.h and removed the declaration in CMusicHandler.h. Now it complains that it wouldn't be declared later. WTF?	11:26
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chem\|st	mirf: most of the machines don't have a direct share open and our network is able to separate infected machines	11:26
amigadave	_0x47: i would file a bug	11:26
DrGrov	Anyone using a 3G usb internet for a Mac ever? Sorry for offtopic	11:26
chem\|st	DrGrov: which type? and yes there is	11:27
DrGrov	DocScrutinizer51: hello, you there? i got a memo from you about the chargers. perhaps yes i could send them for you	11:27
DrGrov	chem\|st: it is a Huawei E169 and DNA is the finnish operator I use	11:27
_0x47	amigadave: I swear it compiles on my ubuntu machine...	11:29
chem\|st	there is a bug with E169 and you might fix it with a patch	11:29
chem\|st	DNA should be irreleveant	11:29
amigadave	_0x47: well, that's a good point of reference that you can use in the bug report	11:29
mirf	that setup sounds interesting chem\|st, is it active directory network?	11:30
chem\|st	yeah its a windows server, all that security measure drains speed from 1Gb/s to some like 8-700Mb/s but ok	11:32
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_0x47	amigadave: where to report it? maemo or the software's maintainer? I don't get who's fault this would be if it doesn't compile in the SDK. I assume it's the SDK's fault...	11:32
mirf	sounds super secure	11:32
mirf	unfortuantely we have nothing like that at work	11:32
mirf	anyway I better crack on and get this samba working ;P	11:33
chem\|st	the "doh" on it is that till we setup access to some machines directly you had to sit infront of the machine you needed files from to get them into your folder on the server pain-in-the-A	11:33
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mirf	ah yeah that sounds a bit poop	11:33
mirf	but still	11:33
mirf	nice and locked down	11:34
amigadave	_0x47: i would report it upstream, as they know the code that does not compile	11:34
chem\|st	mirf: it's windows.... secure windows is an oximoron	11:34
chem\|st	if the server gets a cold all machines are infected anyway	11:34
_0x47	amigadave: Thanks, that's what I will do. If you like I'll let you know the result.	11:34
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amigadave	_0x47: sure!	11:34
chem\|st	DrGrov: http://www.sumardi.net/2009/01/16/how-to-setup-huawei-usb-e169-modem-on-mac-os-x/	11:35
chem\|st	what about this?	11:36
DrGrov	chem\|st: thank you, i already found it. it was just a double-click away to get it working :)	11:36
chem\|st	ah ok	11:36
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chem\|st	well bit of a fail! to need the 220 drivers to have a 169 working...	11:36
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DrGrov	chem\|st: it seems like that i presume. i do not have the macbook around me to test now. just at the summer place i have a possibility to test it out in practice. perhaps it will work without any problems but i am not 100% sure that it will work just like that. perhaps i need of course to do some manual settings in order for the 3g usb to find it.	11:38
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chem\|st	GLHF	11:39
DrGrov	GLHF?	11:39
Corsac	good luck / have fnu	11:39
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DrGrov	thanks :)	11:39
DrGrov	i am a bit too old for this fancy shit talk ;)	11:39
DrGrov	lol	11:39
DrGrov	well, gotta run.	11:40
DrGrov	thanks for the help	11:40
DrGrov	happy midsummer to you who celebrate it	11:41
DrGrov	take care guys and gals	11:41
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mirf	hmmm	11:56
mirf	the latest update installed support for portrait browsing... how does one activate that?	11:57
jacekowski	same as in the iphone	11:58
jacekowski	besides, use opera	11:58
Surfa	mirf, from the browser options	11:58
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jacekowski	it's a lot better	11:59
eitama	Opera has no flash ):	11:59
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Surfa	opera is worst browser ever.. at least on n900	11:59
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jacekowski	eitama: who needs flash	12:00
Surfa	portrait mode keyboard is the only thing i remotely like in it	12:00
eitama	I Do (:	12:00
eitama	It's not fun to reach a site and face the fact that you need to copy the URL and move to microB just for that page	12:00
mirf	so does portrait work in microb?	12:01
jacekowski	well, i don't use flash at all	12:01
eitama	It does	12:01
mirf	good :)	12:01
jacekowski	thing is that it's too unsecure	12:01
jacekowski	there are 3 known exploits for it	12:01
jacekowski	one which is widely used	12:01
crashanddie	Best TMO post ever: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=728087&postcount=220	12:01
eitama	mirf: exit fullsceen mode, press on the title at top, and enable it in the options	12:01
jacekowski	and it's matter of time before somebody modifies it to use arm shellcode	12:01
mirf	cool thanks eitama	12:02
crashanddie	Surfa: Opera is excellent. It's 10 times faster than microb	12:02
eitama	I'll give opera another try though.	12:03
Stskeeps	crashanddie: http://talk.maemo.org/thankedposts.php?since=999 begs to differ ;p but quite good post	12:03
mirf	wow gooo woody	12:04
* Trizt thinks microb is the best of the browsers, but it could been nice if had been a bit fstare		12:04
mirf	microb is mozilla right, it was always gonn abe slow	12:04
mirf	but it has other benefits	12:05
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crashanddie	A French convict who killed his cellmate and ate his lung was sentenced to 30 years in prison on Thursday.	12:05
Trizt	it's not as lowe as the other one Fennic or what is called	12:05
crashanddie	lowe?	12:05
eitama	BTW guys - offtopic question, what IRC client you using on the PC?	12:05
Trizt	crashanddie; so he will have his snack bar for another 30 years	12:05
asj_	eitama: the best client ever writen ksirc ;)	12:06
Trizt	slow	12:06
andre__	eitama: xchat	12:06
crashanddie	Nokia Oyj will use Linux MeeGo software in its N-series lineup, hoping the new platform will give it a better chance to battle against rivals such as Apple Inc and Google Inc.	12:06
crashanddie	eitama: macirssi	12:06
crashanddie	http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65N20Y20100624	12:06
Trizt	eitama; XChat or iirc	12:07
mirf	eitama: irssi!	12:07
eitama	IRSSI?	12:07
eitama	is that another acronym?	12:07
eitama	or name of an app?	12:07
eitama	lol	12:07
mirf	it's the app :P	12:07
Lilly	if you expert irssi, else xchat	12:07
mirf	irssi in a screen on a shell tunnelled through ssh	12:08
mirf	its' the only way ;)	12:08
eitama	i tried using xchat, it seems nice - but for some reason, when I try to connect to 4 channels it just ignored my /join commands	12:08
Trizt	eitama; http://irssi.org/	12:08
eitama	I'll take a look	12:08
eitama	thanks for the suggestions guys	12:08
eitama	MIRC is crap	12:08
eitama	xchat gave me a hard time	12:08
eitama	now using IceChat	12:08
Trizt	eitama; I'm connected to two networks and 10 channels, no problems	12:08
eitama	and it's notification handeling is lame	12:08
jacekowski	irssi FTW	12:09
pahartik	eitama: "irssi"... Works within "screen" and has proxy	12:09
eitama	Yeah I am now too	12:09
eitama	I'll go look now	12:09
eitama	at irssi	12:09
asj_	eitama: under windows try pidgin as well	12:09
Trizt	or go to dirstrowatch.com and download a new os	12:09
jacekowski	i use irssi + screen + ssh + jabber_notify + jabber	12:09
Lilly	is there game zuma to maemo?	12:09
eitama	lol	12:09
eitama	lol trizt	12:10
eitama	I tried insalling ubuntu 10.04 like 6 times	12:10
eitama	always failed.	12:10
eitama	even live cd didn't work	12:10
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eitama	Gave up	12:10
eitama	Burned CDs at 2x, changed CDs Checked MD5s	12:10
eitama	Posted on ubuntu forums	12:10
Trizt	eitama; if you failed then it means you didn't install that ms thing yourself, you got it when you bought the hardware	12:10
eitama	nothing worked	12:10
crashanddie	enter isn't a form of punctuation	12:11
mirf	that's the great thing about irssi and screen, you can connect to it from pretty much anywhere and still pick up your chat where you left off	12:11
crashanddie	who cares, really?	12:11
eitama	Trizt: I installed xp, windows vista, windows 7, openSuse, ubuntu 8.04 and debian on this laptop	12:11
crashanddie	only geeks and nerds care about replicating all the logs from a single channel, and be permanently connected	12:11
eitama	Trizt: The only OS I really want, and can't install, is ubuntu 10.04	12:11
eitama	Trizt: Believe me, I tried everything.	12:12
Trizt	eitama; go for Gentoo instead, better	12:12
crashanddie	if you're not there, just disconnect, nobody gives a flying fuck whether you're online or not	12:12
mirf	crashanddie: guilty as charged!	12:12
eitama	I like the Compiz thingy on ubuntu	12:12
mirf	I give a flying a fuck whether I'm online or not.. jeeeeez	12:12
eitama	The visuals are great, the OS is fun, I like debian, it fits me like a glove.	12:12
Trizt	eitama; you can get it on any Linux dist	12:12
mirf	:D	12:13
eitama	Gentoo	12:13
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eitama	What package manager does that use?	12:13
mirf	pacman	12:13
Trizt	eitama; portage	12:13
eitama	Yays	12:13
eitama	Yayks*	12:13
eitama	Never heard of that one	12:13
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eitama	I'm so inlove with apt-get	12:13
eitama	It beats windows expirience anytime.	12:13
eitama	Ummm about Irssi, on windows, what exactly does the UI look like? is it terminal style? or what?	12:15
eitama	can I hit links and they open?	12:15
eitama	are there tabs?	12:15
mirf	you can't run it directly on windows	12:15
jacekowski	you can	12:15
jacekowski	there is windows irssi	12:15
eitama	I see on the site there is a windows installer	12:15
mirf	ooh	12:15
mirf	cool :)	12:16
eitama	BTW, any of you tried my app? horizontal-call? i'm looking for feedback.	12:16
mirf	there are tabbed windows in a way	12:16
mirf	eitama: got a link?	12:17
Stskeeps	~wifi-psm	12:17
infobot	well, wifi-psm is http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM)	12:17
Trizt	eitama: http://irssi.org/themefiles/insane.png	12:17
eitama	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56533	12:17
eitama	It's in devel	12:17
eitama	Trizt: Thats not for me.	12:18
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eitama	Trizt: I want the "windows" expirience	12:18
eitama	(:	12:18
Trizt	eitama: then use x-chat	12:18
eitama	I tried it	12:18
eitama	For some reason	12:19
eitama	it won't connect to more then 2 chat rooms	12:19
eitama	at once	12:19
Trizt	try another version or a proper os	12:19
eitama	when with mirc and iceChat i am connected to 5 channels	12:19
eitama	Windows 7 is a proper os lol	12:19
mirf	thanks eitama	12:19
eitama	)"	12:19
eitama	(:	12:19
eitama	Np	12:19
jacekowski	eitama: it will	12:19
Trizt	I use X-Chat and I'm cyrrently on 10 channels where one is another irc-net	12:19
jacekowski	eitama: you just don't know how to do it	12:19
cehteh	chem\|st: ping	12:20
jacekowski	eitama: it's /connect not /server	12:20
eitama	I believe you 100% Trizt	12:20
eitama	jacekowski: sorry I missed the context of what you are saying	12:20
eitama	"/connect'	12:20
Trizt	another good irc client is AmIrc	12:20
eitama	for what?	12:20
jacekowski	eitama: to connect to another irc server	12:20
mirf	on windows I used to like hydrairc	12:21
mirf	but it was a bit buggy	12:21
eitama	I don't need a few servers	12:21
eitama	just freenode	12:21
eitama	I was able to connect to freenode	12:21
eitama	and join 2 channels	12:21
eitama	from the moment	12:21
eitama	when I typed /join #name	12:21
eitama	nothing happened	12:21
jacekowski	maybe channel doesn't exist	12:22
eitama	wether i typed it in the console channel or one of the previous channels	12:22
eitama	they exist	12:22
jacekowski	or you are banned	12:22
eitama	(:	12:22
eitama	No way	12:22
eitama	I barly use IRC to get banned	12:22
eitama	(:	12:22
jacekowski	eitama: because you are already on that channel	12:22
eitama	and	12:22
jacekowski	eitama: so you have to switch to that window	12:22
jacekowski	eitama: not join them	12:22
Trizt	jacekowski he will get to chennel if it don't exsist, the only time he won't if the channel is password protected or invite onely	12:22
eitama	lol jacekowski	12:22
eitama	give some credit mate	12:22
eitama	lol	12:22
chem\|st	cehteh: pong	12:22
eitama	you know what	12:22
eitama	i'm installing xchat now	12:23
eitama	to prove it to you	12:23
eitama	lol	12:23
jacekowski	Trizt: well, x-chat had some problems handling channels that redirect to different one	12:23
cehteh	chem\|st: s. /query	12:23
eitama	5 channels : qt qt-maemo maemo maemo-devel qt-creator	12:23
Trizt	jacekowski; okey, didn't know and never really needed to go to a such chan	12:23
cehteh	hah .. lol	12:23
cehteh	i just found the email inbox cache from the first device i had in december (amazon warehouse deals) of the former owner in my backups	12:24
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eitama_	lol	12:26
eitama_	now it's working	12:26
jacekowski	PEBKAC	12:26
eitama	What's that?	12:26
MohammadAG51	Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Chair	12:27
eitama_	lol	12:27
eitama_	MohammadAG51, I'm so lucky you are here to enlighten me mate	12:27
eitama_	Thats so true btw	12:27
MohammadAG51	xD	12:27
MohammadAG51	now then	12:27
MohammadAG51	why was i g/k/zlined?	12:28
MohammadAG51	* Closing link [Timeout] oh, nvm	12:28
eitama_	MohammadAG51, You remember the problem with the dbus?	12:28
chem\|st	cehteh: got no query...	12:28
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MohammadAG51	eitama_, yeah?	12:30
eitama_	You remember it?	12:31
MohammadAG51	i think so	12:32
eitama_	Where I had to add the path	12:32
eitama_	to the /include folder?	12:32
eitama_	/usr/include/QtDbus	12:32
eitama_	for it to compile both on madde and autobuilder	12:32
eitama_	I found out what was the problem	12:32
eitama_	I had QT += dbus <whatever>	12:33
eitama_	at the top of the pro file	12:33
eitama_	and	12:33
eitama_	somwhere to the end	12:33
eitama_	there was another line	12:33
eitama_	QT = core gui	12:33
eitama_	lol	12:33
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MohammadAG51	lol	12:40
eitama	Lame eh?	12:41
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dotblank	im in a super happy mood :)	12:50
mirf	:D	12:51
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mirf	why dotblank ?	12:55
dotblank	why because I fixed a bug that Ive been trying to fix for the last 3 hours	12:56
dneary	Hi	12:56
mirf	wooooo	12:56
Stskeeps	morn dneary	12:56
mirf	so prior to being happy you were FAR from it	12:56
mirf	:P	12:56
dotblank	mirf, well.. I wasn't really angry	12:57
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mirf	frustrated	12:57
mirf	?	12:57
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dotblank	I mean its amazing what one int can mess up	12:57
dneary	Stskeeps, Can I ask your advice?	12:57
Stskeeps	dneary: always	12:57
dneary	I'd like to change the behaviour of the "Go" button in the wiki so that it doesn't go, it sarches, even if there's an exact name match	12:57
dotblank	had to fix it in a seemingly unrelated part of the code	12:57
dneary	Do you think that's a good idea?	12:57
Stskeeps	dneary: i hate the default of 'Go' as it says Search above the text field	12:58
dneary	(basically, if you look at a normal mediawiki, there are two buttons - there's search & go, and I'm going to swap the behaviour for Maemo)	12:58
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SpeedEvil	Why make it non-standard?	12:59
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Stskeeps	cos standard sucks?	12:59
Stskeeps	:P	12:59
SpeedEvil	I have no objection - as long as the page of the title comes first.	12:59
SpeedEvil	It is an extra click, and more data downloaded, which can be annoying for those on slow connections.	13:00
* ShadowJK has never figured out how to make the search actually find things :P		13:04
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dneary	Stskeeps, Try it now, see it you prefer	13:06
dneary	SpeedEvil, To fit with the maemo.org style of one search button	13:06
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dneary	Stskeeps, There is a serious down-side to using search, and that's short searches	13:06
Stskeeps	:nod:	13:07
dneary	Searching for Qt doesn't find the exact matching page now	13:07
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MohammadAG51	what revision of debian is maemo closest to?	13:08
dneary	Stskeeps, Too big a change to make before leaving for a weekend	13:09
dneary	MohammadAG51, Tough question	13:09
dneary	MohammadAG51, I'd say no released version.	13:09
MohammadAG51	:D	13:10
MohammadAG51	guess i'll have to check dependencies myself	13:10
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dneary	MohammadAG51, If you have a specific question, Stskeeps is our distmaster around here	13:13
dneary	He's sure to be able to help you out	13:13
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MohammadAG51	dneary, nah, he has a thing against helping out and making you find the answer on your own :P	13:14
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dneary	MohammadAG51, The meanie	13:19
dneary	Anyway - off. Bye!	13:19
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Venemo	hi all!	13:20
Venemo	I have good news for you	13:20
Stskeeps	MohammadAG51: a mix of sarge, etch	13:20
SpeedEvil	You have ported maemo to the nokia 3310?	13:20
Venemo	The Sticky Notes widget is now working correctly	13:20
Venemo	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=57049	13:20
SpeedEvil	ah.	13:21
SpeedEvil	On the 3310?	13:21
Venemo	SpeedEvil: almost :P	13:21
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SpeedEvil	:)	13:21
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Venemo	SpeedEvil: btw, the 3310 doesn't quite provide the necessary harware requirements for Maemo	13:23
Venemo	:P	13:23
MohammadAG51	Stskeeps, I was referring to the touchscreen problem above, but ty anyways :P	13:23
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Stskeeps	what touchscreen problem? :P	13:23
MohammadAG51	Stskeeps, the one where the ts doesn't work on ubuntu 9.10 :)	13:24
Stskeeps	MohammadAG51: didn't i tell you to look at how we got that working in meego? :P	13:24
MohammadAG51	Stskeeps, no, you sent me to mer :P	13:25
MohammadAG51	and the tsc2005.ko thing didn't work :)	13:25
Stskeeps	.. no i didn't	13:25
MohammadAG51	as well as the mer xorg.conf file	13:25
Stskeeps	tsc2005.ko being there is one part, second part is xorg.conf configuration, third part is getting rid of xserver-xorg-input-synaptics	13:25
SpeedEvil	Venemo: That just makes it a challenge! :)	13:26
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obsidieth	hmmm. anyone played with the infrared?	13:33
obsidieth	i cant say mine actually fires.	13:33
nidO	how've you checked it	13:33
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asj_	camera I presume	13:33
obsidieth	well its not controlling my tv, and im trying the shutter ap.	13:34
obsidieth	im not quite sure how to test with a camera, though.	13:34
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asj_	ccds are very sensitive to IR	13:34
nidO	manually send a command through lirc while pointing a digital video camera at the ir port	13:34
nidO	you should see blue flashes on the camera if the port's sending the command	13:34
obsidieth	one sec.	13:35
asj_	doesn't have to video, anything with live preview	13:35
obsidieth	wheres the IR port? :p by the way	13:35
nidO	top right of the device	13:35
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Corsac	except that usually there are filters before or after the cmos/ccd?	13:36
obsidieth	right. i can see the flash of my tv remote.	13:36
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obsidieth	ah yes. its flashing for shutter.	13:37
obsidieth	ok. definitely flashes	13:37
obsidieth	its some sort of remote misconfiguration one would assume	13:37
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nidO	if you're trying to use qtirreco remotes yes	13:38
nidO	loads of them are duff and send invalid/nonexistant codes	13:38
obsidieth	well. i was trying to get the device info and create my own remote	13:39
obsidieth	it was one model number at the end off, ill try another tv	13:40
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MohammadAG51	tsk tsk tsk, who optifies a -dev package :)	13:42
alterego	builder4 broke?	13:43
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MohammadAG51	meh, gparted failed to build :(	13:48
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alterego	MohammadAG: gnome deps?	13:52
MohammadAG	alterego, nope	13:52
MohammadAG	alterego, all deps satisfied, configure script goes well, make fails	13:52
alterego	Oh :(	13:53
alterego	Are you planning to hildonize it? :)	13:53
MohammadAG	alterego, how would I if the regular one doesn't build :)	13:54
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MohammadAG	alterego, http://pastebin.com/wUX1eiuz	13:57
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alterego	http://theoatmeal.com/comics/angler	13:59
alterego	looks like you might have the wrong version of something?	14:00
obsidieth	mm	14:01
obsidieth	works on one tv	14:01
Stskeeps	hm, cool: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-cellular/telepathy-ring	14:02
Stskeeps	they really do mean open source seriously	14:02
MohammadAG	alterego, well the debian/control file doesn't have versioned deps so :)	14:02
alterego	:/	14:04
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alterego	There should be a kayboard shortcut to open a browser window.	14:06
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alterego	Also, has anyone had an issue where microb opens with juust location bar and stop button?	14:07
MohammadAG	and the blue 'bar' keeps moving, yeah	14:09
alterego	No, loads thepage fine, just those are the only widgets in the toolbar.	14:10
MohammadAG	happened to me once	14:10
haj	uhm .. say.. isn't the camera in the N900 supposed to auto rotate photos?	14:10
alterego	Hahah, "Apple releases advice on how to hold iPhone 4" pahahah	14:10
alterego	Admitting there's a problem is the first step :)	14:10
MohammadAG	e-yes, I checked out the boot.log file, it had some permission denied entries in it, who should the files be owned by?	14:11
MohammadAG	alterego, link?	14:11
haj	alterego: actually Jobs calls the users idiots... it seems.. :)	14:11
alterego	http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8761240.stm	14:11
haj	alterego: they'll buy it anyway, which proofs his point.. ;)	14:11
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Stskeeps	or hate lefties	14:12
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alterego	DIY iPhone: "Alternatively, said Apple, customers could buy a case to shield the antenna. "	14:12
haj	or another phone	14:12
Duckboot	I'm so glad I'll never ever gonna have _ANY_ product from Apple.	14:13
alterego	diyPhone :D	14:13
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nidO	us lefties never get any love :(	14:13
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MohammadAG	LOL Mr Jobs wrote that "All phones have sensitive areas".	14:13
zash	"a case to shield the antenna" .. wait what	14:14
jacekowski	well, if i grab my n900 in both hands	14:14
jacekowski	to cover everything on a back	14:15
nidO	i tried that yesterday, i couldnt get the signal to drop below full	14:15
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nidO	tried completely covering it from every way, signal bar stayed rock solid	14:15
MohammadAG	I've never had a signal drop on any phone tbh	14:15
nidO	me either, not appreciably	14:15
Duckboot	Jobs will never ever admit an error or design flaw.	14:16
chem\|st	nidO: you think you do deserve it?	14:16
andre__	anybody knows how to start the Clock app in maemo5 from the terminal?	14:16
nidO	chem\|st: yes, im not evil :(	14:16
* chem\|st hands a flower to nidO, left handed		14:16
jacekowski	nidO: i can	14:16
nidO	\o/	14:16
jacekowski	nidO: if you grab it in both hands	14:16
jacekowski	nidO: i can make it go from 3g to 2g	14:17
SpeedEvil	It is extremely noticable for me when typing on the keyboard	14:17
SpeedEvil	the 3g signal can decrease by a lot	14:17
nidO	lemme try that, mine's forcibly stuck to 2g atm	14:17
jacekowski	well, 2g is different	14:17
jacekowski	so it's harder to affect it that much	14:17
alterego	I get issues in low signal areas like that, but that is too be expected tbh, sometimes the signal actually gets better when I hold it.	14:17
haj	MohammadAG: My old 9300i's never worked very well in GSM-900 areas..	14:17
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: true, gps and wifi can be irritated easily	14:17
chem\|st	too....	14:17
MohammadAG	andre__, hmm, sec	14:17
nidO	hm	14:17
alterego	Thye issue with the iPhone 4 is a manufacturing defect.	14:18
andre__	MohammadAG, can't find the freaking name of it	14:18
nidO	if i completely shield the phone with both hands as best I can	14:18
nidO	I can get 3g to drop from 4 bars to 3	14:18
chem\|st	alterego: yea it's just dumb	14:18
alterego	Well, actually "it's really cool engineering" defect.	14:18
nidO	to put two antenna in a "short-them-on-each-other" position	14:18
nidO	neat.	14:19
chem\|st	alterego: as I said in tmo, mac is doing the microsoft way of it's not a bug it's a feature fail	14:19
jacekowski	alterego: well, n900 had problems with usb port	14:19
MohammadAG	but that's a minority of devices jacekowski	14:19
nidO	some users not being careful enough with inherantly-fragile usb ports != all devices having a design flaw that lets the two antenna short on each other and fail	14:19
chem\|st	jacekowski: that was what I wrote first on tmo, I just pull my device off the cord for 6 month now!	14:19
jacekowski	7650 had problems with ribbon connecting keyboard and screen	14:20
alterego	jacekowski: sure, N900 has problems with software too. I phone doesn't even have USB, but if it did .... I'm sure it'd start downloading your brain to iTunes when you touched it in the wrong way :D	14:20
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MohammadAG	andre__, LOL it's called worldclock for some reason	14:20
alterego	jacekowski: a lot of slides wear out that way. I had to fix an N95 the other day that had a fucked ribbon.	14:21
chem\|st	the iPhone is a style gadget not something to work with, and I don't like those show-offs	14:21
nidO	main point really is though that yeah some devices have weaknesses in certain components that wear out a bit quicker than they should or whatever, but it's a pretty spectacular fuckup to make a phone that doesnt function as a phone when you're shock holding it.	14:21
jacekowski	well, n900 is a brick	14:21
jacekowski	brick shape	14:21
BCMM	do we have a z-machine?	14:21
jacekowski	brick size	14:21
jacekowski	brick weight	14:21
jacekowski	brick battery life	14:21
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BCMM	i've alwats wanted handheld zork	14:21
alterego	nidO: exactly :)	14:21
jacekowski	battery life is the worst one	14:22
MohammadAG	jacekowski, k, we got it...	14:22
chem\|st	jacekowski: a not true on the battery life	14:22
jacekowski	i want something that can last 3 days	14:22
alterego	jacekowski: we're all aware of your tard fanboiism for Steve's iPeenus :P	14:22
nidO	I want something like my e90 that could manage a week :(	14:22
andre__	MohammadAG, garr. thanks	14:22
MohammadAG	buy 10 batteries	14:22
chem\|st	jacekowski: just because you cannot handle it doesn't mean it is worse	14:22
jacekowski	i'm not saying it's worse	14:22
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MohammadAG	andre__, had to launch it and watch the output of top to see which process would spike :) and np	14:22
jacekowski	if everybody here would be saying how good iphone is	14:23
jacekowski	i would be on opposite side	14:23
chem\|st	nidO: you exchange battery life with always on	14:23
jacekowski	to remind people about the problems	14:23
alterego	I'm still suprised he said customers could by the DIY insulation ...	14:23
andre__	MohammadAG, oh, nice idea to find out. Hope I won't forget :)	14:23
jacekowski	but battery life is the biggest problem i had with n900	14:23
nidO	my e90 was more always on than my n900, tbh. I could get 6 days out of that with bluetooth and wifi enabled, my n900 gives me 2 and a half ish, tops, with wifi disabled when not in use	14:23
jacekowski	and because it doesn't have standard usb connector	14:23
alterego	I would have tholught he'd give them away, but I guess he actually honestly thinks that insulating an antenna is work thirty fucking dollars ...	14:24
jacekowski	i can't charge it everywhere	14:24
chem\|st	jacekowski: you had?! now it is gone?	14:24
chem\|st	jacekowski: why not?	14:24
alterego	s/work/worth	14:24
jacekowski	well, mini usb is more common	14:24
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nidO	the most annoying part about the battery life is the fact that the n900's battery is plain 15% lower capacity than the 5-year-old design in the e90, despite being physically the same volume	14:24
mirf	I think the usb is a strange choice too	14:24
jacekowski	to get n900 cable( micro usb? ) i had to walk a lot	14:25
SpeedEvil	micro USB is required	14:25
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: why?	14:25
mirf	but I like the little adaptor you get in the box for plugging it onto oldder nokia chargers... everyone has them	14:25
jaska	its also a fairly fragile connector.. compared to miniusb	14:25
chem\|st	jacekowski: I bought 5 micro cables for 7eur	14:25
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB	14:25
SpeedEvil	see that	14:25
SpeedEvil	top	14:25
alterego	nidO: E series are designed for a different purpose though. I'm not bothered by battery life, it's never going to be enough on any device.	14:25
nidO	was agreed like a year or two ago that all new phones have to use microusb now for charging	14:25
nidO	in the eu at least	14:25
SpeedEvil	nidO: And china	14:26
mirf	ahhh wicked	14:26
MohammadAG	damn EU, always brings problems to everyone	14:26
mirf	I thought they were goning to make mini the standard	14:26
mirf	but that's great	14:26
chem\|st	alterego: true, I want my netbook to last 4 days like I get my n900 to	14:26
nidO	mini was abandoned very quickly because it's shite	14:26
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: You'd really rather every phone has it's own charger?	14:26
nidO	far far more fragile than micro	14:26
alterego	MohammadAG: the micro usb is an issue for when I'm torrenting through my phone as modem :P	14:26
chem\|st	I have to do the same with my netbook as I have to do with n900	14:26
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: thing is that why they went for micro not mini	14:27
mirf	holy schism host mode usb!	14:27
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, do Nokia chargers work with any MicroUSB device?	14:27
Termana	nidO, you make it sound like it was an EU REQUIREMENT where as AFAIK, it was just a bunch of manufactures saying they will do it	14:27
Termana	Including Apple, and they don't do it	14:27
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: yes	14:27
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: they are 'normal' USB chargers with a microb plug	14:27
MohammadAG	microusb*	14:27
alterego	chem\|st: netbooks, tablets will be awesome when they start building them with the kind of stuff we have in phones (like iPad) but then you'll end up paying more than we pay for phones.	14:27
nidO	Termana, it was an agreement between all the major manufactures including nokia who were one of the initial proponents of a charging standard, so yes they did have to do it on the n900	14:28
chem\|st	MohammadAG: micro B	14:28
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HtheB	o	14:28
MohammadAG	oh	14:28
alterego	Bigger screen, bigger batteries ..	14:28
HtheB	o/	14:28
HtheB	jo guys	14:28
HtheB	is there anyone over here that can read (and translate) spanish for me?	14:28
jacekowski	yeah, bigger batteries	14:28
HtheB	Google translate > fail	14:28
chem\|st	alterego: I manage to get 4 days out of my netbook if I hit standby any time I am not needing it	14:28
jacekowski	HtheB: well, i know somebody who speaks spanish	14:28
alterego	chem\|st: I just use hibernate :)	14:29
jacekowski	HtheB: ask on ubuntu-es	14:29
chem\|st	HtheB: link	14:29
Termana	HtheB, I can do better than Google Translate	14:29
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HtheB	http://conversaciones.nokia.com/2010/06/24/make-my-app-semana-final-y-juzgamos/	14:29
Termana	All I have to do is bang the keyboard a few times	14:29
HtheB	what do they say about 3)	14:29
HtheB	?	14:29
lcuk	BACON!	14:29
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jacekowski	HtheB: i don't speak spanish at all	14:30
jacekowski	HtheB: and i can understand it	14:30
HtheB	._.	14:30
alterego	I bet the issue with the iPhone 4 is, it just doesn't _like_ being touched. It wants to be put on a thrown under a spot light so every one can see it's shiney!	14:30
alterego	Don't touch me!!!	14:30
* lcuk frals trout with a MohammadAG		14:30
alterego	Yo'll grease up meh screen bro.	14:31
nidO	from the ease of shattering the backplate combined with the antenna problem, it would seem that way	14:31
* MohammadAG slaps lcuk with a trouty frals		14:31
jacekowski	HtheB: something that you proposed to use front camera to make photos of people that touched your phone	14:31
nidO	"touch me and ill either shatter or not work as a phone."	14:31
HtheB	yeahthats right	14:31
HtheB	but	14:31
HtheB	Lo bueno? (something good?)	14:31
HtheB	Lo malo	14:31
HtheB	lo extrano? O_o	14:31
Termana	iPhone 4 - I love how the Apple fanboys mocked the Nexus One's 3G issues, and now the iPhone has 3G issues.	14:32
jacekowski	HtheB: the good, the bad, the ugly	14:32
alterego	nidO: I thought it was funny how the fanboy spinners were saying it only shattered because it was an empty case. I wonder if they tried it with their own devices :)	14:32
jacekowski	HtheB: so called pros and cons in english	14:32
chem\|st	HtheB: malo bad extra~no strange	14:32
nidO	well there've been several real users with their brand new phones shattering their backplates already	14:32
nidO	from drops of like	14:32
nidO	a foot	14:32
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alterego	shit,	14:32
alterego	I thought it only happened in that tesst.	14:33
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HtheB	so, what is their opinion about it? XD	14:33
alterego	I have one question for Mr Joba though ..... "Will it blend"?	14:33
chem\|st	HtheB: the pros and cons of taking a picture with frontcam to identify a person who found/stole your phone	14:33
TigerTael	?	14:33
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TigerTael	Use both front and rear cam	14:34
* TigerTael shrugs		14:34
nidO	alterego: im suprised that question hasnt been answered already tbh :(	14:34
nidO	we got the ipad answer like same day it was released	14:34
alterego	yeah	14:34
HtheB	thnx	14:34
HtheB	=)	14:34
chem\|st	HtheB: that it is some kind of not useful as police does not have channels for it yet	14:35
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HtheB	i see	14:36
chem\|st	good in terms of security measure, but they doubt that it will hold proof of concept	14:36
HtheB	hmm	14:36
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chem\|st	HtheB: teh ugly part is about... hmm overdoing it	14:37
HtheB	google trans says sometihng about family and friends?	14:38
chem\|st	lets say its something that can be abused in "big-brother" style	14:38
HtheB	ah	14:38
HtheB	hmm	14:38
HtheB	xD	14:38
alterego	Wow, the iPhone looks like pure evil once it's blended ...	14:39
mirf	?	14:39
Termana	nidO, he isn't selling enough blenders to buy an iPhone 4	14:39
HtheB	thnx chem\|st !	14:39
chem\|st	my spanish is not that good but like watching friends and family not touching your device	14:39
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alterego	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06O5rejU3ZU	14:40
alterego	hahah	14:40
chem\|st	HtheB: all three... the good the bad the ugly are normal statements that are known issues of security measures	14:40
nidO	oh neat, that doesnt seem to be on their own site yet :p	14:41
HtheB	heh :D	14:42
alterego	nid0 it's not real, but I don't know how I missed that :D	14:42
HtheB	lets hope that I will win :p	14:42
nidO	hm, hopefully its gonna get blended today then!	14:42
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alterego	He said 25th I think	14:42
nidO	yeh	14:42
alterego	:(	14:42
nidO	today	14:42
alterego	Oh yeah!!! :D	14:42
chem\|st	HtheB: the bad is also about quality of pictures	14:42
alterego	Don't taze me bro!!!	14:42
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chem\|st	oh I put that wrong..	14:43
HtheB	it could make bad quality	14:43
chem\|st	HtheB: the bad is not about missing channels of the police but about if it is of any use for the police to find your phone	14:43
HtheB	its not sure it will make good pictures of the oent hat uses the phone	14:43
HtheB	yeah, I got that part :)	14:44
HtheB	well...	14:44
HtheB	lets hope for it :D	14:44
HtheB	2 days left!!!!	14:44
HtheB	:D	14:44
HtheB	http://217.149.58.248/campaign/app?shared=1274744642	14:44
HtheB	over 59.000 people likes the idea	14:44
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HtheB	this is the shortlisted link: http://217.149.58.248/campaign/useful-apps?sortby=shortlisted	14:45
HtheB	see the differences between the facebook "I like this" stuff :p	14:45
HtheB	haha	14:45
HtheB	well.. ill bbl now.	14:46
HtheB	thanks again chem\|st !	14:46
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chem\|st	HtheB: I like the idea but I think that pictures aren't the best idea, the best idea would be that the phone starts to hand out all stats every 5 minutes per email/cloak-sms (not visible in conversations), like GPS, HotSpots in range, phone number and ID of simcard and so on	14:47
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chem\|st	should be triggered somehow so it doesn't do it if the phone is not missing	14:48
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jacekowski	well, probably first thing thath thief would do is restore the phone	14:56
jacekowski	so anything in software is not going to work	14:56
jacekowski	kernel modification + playing with bootloader so kernel can't be changed would be better idea	14:56
jacekowski	but it's still something that's not100% reliable	14:56
jacekowski	and besides	14:57
chem\|st	jacekowski: deaktivating the flash functions, so it can't be flashed is some kind of... you know	14:57
jacekowski	in england for example al banks give you phone insurance/travel insurance/lot of usefull stuff for free with your account	14:57
jacekowski	chem\|st: not deactivating	14:57
jacekowski	chem\|st: it would pretend that it's flashing	14:57
jacekowski	chem\|st: but it would leave kernel intact	14:58
jacekowski	chem\|st: and everything would be in kernel	14:58
Lullen	anyone here listen to hardstyle/hardcore? :D	14:58
jacekowski	does hardcore porn counts?	14:58
Lullen	haha no :(	14:58
chem\|st	changing the key you have to press is an idea that comes with it, the standard key pretends the other does flash	14:58
chem\|st	Lullen: not atm	14:59
Lullen	chem\|st so you like it? I need new music : (	15:00
jacekowski	Lullen: tastekid.com	15:00
jacekowski	Lullen: last.fm	15:00
Lullen	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXWAv2PF1xI&feature=related	15:00
Lullen	:D	15:00
chem\|st	Lullen: there is a place called store they have that many vinyls they sell them	15:00
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Lullen	stores?! I think you are kidding :)	15:01
Lullen	I have never been in a music store in my whole life	15:01
jacekowski	where do you get your music?	15:01
Lullen	piratebay? :)	15:01
chem\|st	Lullen: I own some of those old things and like it	15:01
jacekowski	Lullen: that's fucking theft	15:02
jacekowski	Lullen: and nobody here supports it	15:02
jacekowski	Lullen: you want it - pay or don't use it	15:02
chem\|st	Lullen: that's where I get nothing but hardcore pr0n	15:02
jacekowski	Lullen: if you don't think it's worth they price they are asking for - don't pay for it - don't use it	15:02
Lullen	jacekowski, I did not say I want any links to torrent sites or something, I just want to discuss music :)	15:02
jacekowski	music you have not paid for	15:03
Termana	jacekowski, alternatively, use iTunes	15:03
jacekowski	or contributed in any way	15:03
Termana	wait...	15:03
Termana	:P	15:03
jacekowski	Termana: oh no	15:03
Lullen	and second I will never pay for it, I pay for conserts	15:03
jacekowski	Termana: you sad the "i" word	15:03
Termana	Kidding, there is Amazon MP3	15:03
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jacekowski	Termana: you will be iRaped	15:03
Termana	Also,	15:03
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jacekowski	besides, dinner time	15:04
Lullen	okey	15:04
Termana	chem\|st, lol - vinyls?	15:04
Lullen	by	15:04
the_lord	Hi! is there any known problem with the n900 ovi store?	15:04
jacekowski	the_lord: lot of them	15:04
Termana	I've been in music stores, but never any that have records, only CDs.	15:04
Lullen	why is everyone against downloading mp3s? I have never met anyone that bought a cd in the last 5years :P	15:04
the_lord	jacekowski, one so evil that tells me that my phone is not compatible?	15:05
Lullen	and now there is spotify...	15:05
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Termana	Lullen, no one said they were against downloading mp3s. We're against illegally downloading mp3s	15:05
chem\|st	Termana: hell yeah	15:05
jacekowski	the_lord: you have to select n900	15:05
wazd	Stskeeps: moo :)	15:06
Lullen	termana, for me its the same as I have only found 1 song that is legal to download	15:06
the_lord	jacekowski, if I enter the ovi store using my phone browser, it tells me that the phone is not compatible	15:06
wazd	Stskeeps: I've sent you my details to your gmail inbox	15:06
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* pahartik refuses to use "MPEG audio layer 3"		15:06
Stskeeps	wazd: ah, finally	15:06
wazd	hello righthanded losers :D	15:06
Termana	Lullen, have you not heard of Amazon? no? Surely iTunes?	15:06
Termana	pahartik, ogg man	15:06
chem\|st	Termana: some got little paper snippets in the box with codes to download the mp3s, one is reading "Because it is the hell of an effort to rip vinyls to mp3 or flac properly we thought this is useful"	15:07
Termana	pahartik, fight the power	15:07
Termana	pahartik, fight the oppressive man	15:07
Termana	chem\|st, lol	15:07
pahartik	Termana: Well, that and "MPEG-4 AAC"	15:08
chem\|st	Termana: I like to have hardware in my hands	15:08
Lullen	Termana, why pay for it when you can get it for free? The artists wont get much money anyways... Thats why I can go to the other side of the globe to see a consert	15:08
wazd	Stskeeps: yeah, my sister will drive me mad one day	15:09
chem\|st	Lullen: it is not for free, as soon as you ripped them of for +20k eur it is avenged with 2-5 years jail	15:09
dotblank	Lullen, you would like my app then	15:10
Termana	dotblank, Grooveshark app?	15:10
Lullen	dotblank, I like grooveshark :)	15:10
dotblank	yup	15:10
mirf	grooveshark is great!	15:10
Lullen	chem\|st I can not get caught anyhow as my internet provider deletes all info about me :)	15:11
mirf	woah Lullen which isp?	15:11
Lullen	bahnhof	15:11
Lullen	its swedish	15:11
chem\|st	Lullen: they do not care about your internet provider	15:11
Termana	Lullen, not getting caught doesn't mean its good	15:11
chem\|st	Termana: that's the point	15:12
Lullen	chem\|st you need to know the swedish laws.	15:12
chem\|st	you got no law for property theft?	15:12
Lullen	Termana: the system should be changed... Like 30% of the swedes download illegal stuff	15:12
wazd	I wonder how apple will solve that problem, since the design is pretty much based on that antenna thing	15:12
Lullen	We do but the music labels can not get my names	15:13
Stskeeps	wazd: make users operate the device using their butt	15:13
Termana	wazd, I don't think you can "fix" it - I mean, its how they built it	15:13
Lullen	as they need to go to court and as my provider deletes my info there is nothing they can find	15:13
Termana	wazd, I know how the made the mistake though	15:13
wazd	Termana: yeah, that's what I think too :)	15:13
Termana	I have inside information	15:13
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Termana	wazd, Steve Jobs, in his infinite godism, was testing it by making it levitate in the air. Therefore he never found out that holding it made it lose signal	15:14
wazd	Stskeeps: butt is already busy with vuvuzella :D	15:14
Lullen	But really I could pay 10-20 euro a month to be able to download everything I wanted...	15:14
wazd	Termana: oh	15:15
wazd	Termana: that makes sense :D	15:15
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wazd	Termana: that also explains the glass back :)	15:15
wazd	and he was dare to compare it to old Leica camera	15:16
Termana	wazd, :D also - word has it that you have not been doing your daily worship of the Jobs, by facing Cupertino and praying, 5 times daily.	15:17
Termana	You devil.	15:17
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the_lord	jacekowski, it was the phone language	15:42
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cehteh	anyone of you uses mobilehotspot? i dont get a dhcp offer	16:00
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ham5	cant manually set ips?	16:03
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tybollt	olrite	16:07
tybollt	maker of the micro usb connector needs a headshot	16:07
tybollt	srsly	16:07
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BCMM	what's the name of that package which can create buttons to launch arbitrary commands?	16:09
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Lilly	game swf run low :( are there soluction?	16:12
lcuk	hold device higher up	16:12
Venemo	just out of curiosity	16:13
Venemo	what do you think, how many percent of people know what is a browser?	16:13
Lilly	50%	16:13
Lilly	?	16:14
pahartik	Venemo: Define "people"	16:14
dotblank	I think 25%	16:14
andre__	less.	16:14
BCMM	yeah, define people	16:15
alterego	SpeedEvil: thanks for your bug report :)	16:15
dotblank	ok by world population maybe 10%	16:15
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Venemo	pahartik: if you go to a public square and ask the question "what is a browser?", how many people would know the answer?	16:15
alterego	SpeedEvil: you were slightly too late though, as I just uploaded 0.3 for testing.	16:15
Venemo	for example, on the Time Square	16:15
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andre__	I remember explaining to a friend that s/he can install another program than the default MSIE on her machine to view internet websites.	16:15
BCMM	"english-speaker with an internet connection" is the interesting one	16:15
alterego	SpeedEvil: anyhow, I've modified the config loading for the daemon process as you suggested, will upload 0.4 later once enough people have tested 0.3 :)	16:15
Venemo	nah, what are your estimated?	16:16
Venemo	nah, what are your estimates?	16:16
SpeedEvil	alterego: np	16:16
SpeedEvil	alterego: I should have gotten round to testing it faster. :)	16:16
SpeedEvil	alterego: I don't have a well-organised queue - I just tend to go to the qa list, install 25 things, and then test them at random.	16:17
Stskeeps	X-Fade: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=728915#post728915	16:17
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Venemo	the truth is, less than 8% of people knew	16:17
Venemo	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4MwTvtyrUQ	16:17
lbt_	Stskeeps: he's not around today. personal day	16:18
obsidieth	is there any other media players out?	16:18
Stskeeps	lbt_: ah, ok	16:18
SpeedEvil	obsidieth: A few	16:18
lbt_	unless that was yesterday...	16:18
pahartik	Venemo: Without knowing what HTTP and HTML are, concept of HTML browser is unreachable	16:18
SpeedEvil	obsidieth: I recall symphonie, and some other	16:18
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SpeedEvil	parasight: of course it's not.	16:18
SpeedEvil	parasight: 'it's the program you acess the web with'	16:19
Venemo	pahartik: you don't need to know anything about HTTP nor HTML to understand what a website or a web browser is	16:19
mortini	do schools still teach 'the internet' as 'how to design a web page'?	16:20
SpeedEvil	Indeed, you can build websites with no http or html	16:20
mortini	er, 'how to write html.'	16:20
zash	SpeedEvil: xml and ftp?	16:20
Venemo	SpeedEvil: this is about the visitors, not the builders of websites	16:20
lbt_	SpeedEvil: yup.... gimme $5000 and I give you a website :)	16:20
SpeedEvil	zash: yep	16:20
SpeedEvil	or flash	16:20
SpeedEvil	Venemo: I know	16:20
SpeedEvil	Venemo: I'm just saying that knowing http is pointless. As ftp can be a functional equivalent.	16:21
obsidieth	any recommendation SpeedEvil?	16:21
Venemo	SpeedEvil: true	16:21
obsidieth	ill check some out	16:21
pyther	Can someone tell me how to see/view missed calls?	16:21
SpeedEvil	Venemo: As is knowing http without just understanding that tehre are many ways to layout pages	16:21
Venemo	SpeedEvil: still, the 8% number scared me really	16:21
SpeedEvil	meh.	16:21
Venemo	SpeedEvil: watch the video	16:22
SpeedEvil	You have to understand fundamentally that people don't have time for boring shit.	16:22
alterego	Venemo: that's pretty awesome.	16:22
SpeedEvil	Even if we think it's interesting.	16:22
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Trizt	do someone know if the language in qtify is hard coded?	16:23
SpeedEvil	Many people use their effort to learn vastly more important things, like how to pole-dance, or how to strip and rebuild a rabbit in 23 seconds.	16:23
Rabidus	damn highlights	16:23
Venemo	SpeedEvil: what amazes me most about this is that people use a browser in their daily lives without knowing what it is	16:24
SpeedEvil	Why do you have pole-dance on highlight?	16:24
SpeedEvil	:)	16:24
SpeedEvil	Venemo: no, they don't.	16:24
SpeedEvil	Venemo: They know what it is.	16:24
SpeedEvil	Venemo: They don't have a term for it. The two are very differnet.	16:24
Venemo	SpeedEvil: huh, good point	16:24
SpeedEvil	For example - if you asked them about another program that does the same thing as internet explorer, they might well answer firefox/... - even though they can't answer the browser question.	16:25
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pahartik	SpeedEvil: Those persons mostly call it "internet", not "browser"	16:26
nidO	for the layman, the advantage of internet explorer is the fact that it's very name tells you what it does	16:26
nidO	no other browsers do so.	16:26
SpeedEvil	indeed	16:26
Venemo	nidO: true :)	16:27
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alterego	SpeedEvil: anyhow, 0.3 is in testing now, rather than vote on it, just test it and any issues I'll fix in 0.4 which will be the stable release :)	16:29
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SpeedEvil	:)	16:31
SpeedEvil	Will do.	16:31
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script	has anyone made any ipv6-experiences with the -power-kernel?	16:31
* SpeedEvil wonders why his phones internet has fallen over.		16:31
chem\|st	script: you again....	16:31
script	chem\|st: :D	16:32
nidO	SpeedEvil - you didnt... touch it, did you?!	16:32
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nas_	where can I see what program starts every time I start my n900 ?	16:34
BCMM	ps	16:36
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BCMM	run ps right after boot	16:36
nas_	:)	16:37
nas_	thanks , I allready did that	16:37
nas_	I would like to see the programs that start every time I boot my n900	16:37
BCMM	is there a way to make a desktop button that launches an arbitrary command?	16:37
nas_	is there any config file ?	16:37
alterego	nas_: you can look into the upstart directory, that will show you all the scripts configured to run on startup	16:37
nas_	I think it is allready done , check extras / devel	16:37
BCMM	nas_: but ps shows you that...	16:37
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BCMM	i don't know what it is called	16:38
chem\|st	nas_: rc.x	16:38
nas_	on /etc ?	16:38
alterego	chem\|st: that doesn't work, maemo uses upstart like ubuntu, not sysinit	16:38
nas_	BCMM: I would like also to disable some of theese	16:38
chem\|st	well both doesn't it?	16:39
BCMM	i have disabled upstart scripts on maemo	16:39
alterego	No	16:39
BCMM	can't remember how though	16:39
nas_	where can I find upstart ? it wasn't in /etc ...	16:39
BCMM	i set it up so ssh needs to be started manually	16:39
nidO	upstart's generally in /etc/event.d isnt it?	16:41
nidO	< much more familiar with sysinit though	16:41
SpeedEvil	BCMM: queen-beecon	16:41
nidO	yep, upstart scripts are in /etc/event.d	16:42
nas_	93 scripts ...	16:42
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alterego	Where's the sys entry for the battery on the N900?	16:47
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SpeedEvil	there isn't one	16:47
SpeedEvil	by default	16:47
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alterego	Oh, is there anything that will give me a value in relation to that by default?	16:48
SpeedEvil	install the 'power kerenl' then modprobe bq27x00_battery - and there is a semi-ok driver.	16:48
alterego	Urgh	16:48
SpeedEvil	sorry - what are you trying to figure out?	16:48
alterego	I'm not installing a stom kernel :P	16:48
alterego	Oh, basically, whilst tethered to my N900 (via USB) and using Transmission, the phone loses charge rather than charging.	16:49
SpeedEvil	ah	16:49
alterego	Obviously the handset thinks it's charging, so I want to know the exact status.	16:49
cehteh	could happen	16:49
SpeedEvil	yes, that's to be expected	16:49
cehteh	the phone can suck more power than usb can provide	16:50
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SpeedEvil	The cellphone can draw lots more power than ...	16:50
alterego	So, I have no way to know how much battery I have, and at somepoint probably in the next hour, my phone will dia and restaert :)	16:50
cehteh	exactly :P	16:50
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SpeedEvil	alterego: See http://qkwv.com/bat.jpg	16:51
SpeedEvil	err	16:51
SpeedEvil	not that	16:51
SpeedEvil	wrong completion, sorry	16:51
alterego	Hah	16:51
cehteh	well if you dont transmit data all the time it should charge more or less sloly	16:51
cehteh	lol	16:51
alterego	Oh, it's fine charging when I'm just browsing etc.	16:52
alterego	Just hammering it with torrents tends to kill it.	16:52
SpeedEvil	http://www.mauve.plus.com/bat.tar.gz	16:52
SpeedEvil	The above script outputs lines like:	16:52
alterego	Basically, I want to know the battery, so I can pause the torrent for a while and then resume it once the battery has recovered :)	16:52
SpeedEvil	mv RSOC CSOC mA NAC CACD CACT TTF TTE TEMP EDV1	16:53
SpeedEvil	14:52 4000 70 70 278 853 853 853 117 65535 313 0	16:53
alterego	Noice	16:53
SpeedEvil	The intereesting parts are - mv - curent voltage - 4V in this case. SOC = state of charge in %. mA - current charge rate in mA. CAC - current available capacity - TTF/TTE - mins till full/empty	16:54
obsidieth	oh my.	16:54
alterego	This is my one problem with USB charging, you can't plug in a separate charger whilst tethered. Also, would be nice if a powered hub would fix the issue, but I doubt that'll improve things at all.	16:54
SpeedEvil	that is with the -r switch	16:54
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SpeedEvil	alterego: All you need is a way to tell bme to charge at full rate, even with a hub, and it would just work	16:55
SpeedEvil	but - ...	16:55
SpeedEvil	(or some alternate tether)	16:55
alterego	:)	16:55
alterego	Well, I think if I force it to charge at full rate, it might get a bit too hot, it's already cooking when I use it heavily like this.	16:55
SpeedEvil	Opening out the keyboard will make it slightly better at radiating heat	16:56
alterego	That's a good point, I should have thought of that myselkf :)	16:56
nidO	um, bme or not, an unpowered hub isnt going to be able to charge at full rate surely	16:56
SpeedEvil	As will dipping it in cold lemon juice.	16:56
alterego	I tried putting it in a fridge, but it screws with my signal :)	16:56
SpeedEvil	nidO: powered	16:56
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alterego	nidO: obviously I meant a powered hub :P	16:57
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alterego	I may have omitted that fact though, I thought it would have been obvious :P	16:57
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nidO	i must have read badly, you mentioned that it'd be nice if a powered hub would fix it and SpeedEvil said that you just need bme to charge at full rate	16:58
nidO	as though the powered hub wasnt neccesary	16:58
alterego	nidO: well, that might also be the case, if my computer can supply enough power and not fry it's internals.	16:58
SpeedEvil	BME won't of course do this - as it's closed source.	16:58
alterego	Heh	16:59
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SpeedEvil	There may be a prototype BME replacement coming soon.	16:59
nidO	an unpowered hub wont be able to supply more than 500mA regardless though	16:59
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SpeedEvil	It's not really that simple.	16:59
SpeedEvil	Few USB hosts actually limit current to 500mA	16:59
nidO	I was under the impression any certified host had to be limited to 5 unit loads under the usb2 spec	17:00
lcuk	SpeedEvil, i thought for certification of usb the limit had to be tested and confirmed?	17:00
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* lcuk tips hat at nidO		17:00
* nidO nods		17:00
alterego	I thought it just had to supply the correct amount, that it wasn't a limiting factor.	17:01
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alterego	But I don't know too much about certification of USB :P	17:01
alterego	SpeedEvil: anyhow, thanks a lot for those scripts, I'm glad I didn't have to install a new kernel :P	17:01
SpeedEvil	lcuk: no - it just has to supply not more than (IIRC) 2A.	17:01
nidO	the spec defines a usb2 unit load as 100mA with a max of 5 units, and 150mA with a max of 6 units for usb3	17:01
lcuk	well the usb spec specifies that a decide will supply 500ma at max doesnt it	17:01
SpeedEvil	lcuk: and at least 500mA	17:02
lcuk	is it at least? i thought that was an upper bound not a lower	17:02
SpeedEvil	lcuk: Supplying 1.5A won't break the spec at all.	17:02
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SpeedEvil	It must supply no less than 500mA	17:02
* lcuk learns something if thats the case		17:02
SpeedEvil	and no more than 2A.	17:02
SpeedEvil	Or something like that.	17:02
SpeedEvil	The load draws what it needs.	17:02
lcuk	reasonable enough	17:03
SpeedEvil	Same as if you have a table that can support 400Kg, it doesn't mean if you sit on it, you weigh 400Kg	17:03
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alterego	Yeah, that's what I thought :)	17:03
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alterego	Just like OTG needs to supply at least 200mA :P	17:03
SpeedEvil	In some modes - it's complex.	17:04
alterego	Heh	17:04
SpeedEvil	IIRC in some modes it's as low as 0.6mA	17:04
alterego	Yes, I know.	17:04
pyther	Is anyone using callnotify?	17:04
alterego	SpeedEvil: sweet, yopur script updates!	17:04
pyther	I can't seem to find out how to start it	17:04
alterego	I thought it was run once :D	17:04
SpeedEvil	pyther: i did for a little bit	17:04
alterego	SpeedEvil: I can pipe that straight into rrdtool :P	17:04
pyther	SpeedEvil: whas there an app icon or how did you start it?	17:04
SpeedEvil	alterego: It's not mine. it's ShadowJK's. or maybe not. It's someones beginning with s	17:05
SpeedEvil	pyther: There is no icon	17:05
alterego	SpeedEvil: cool :)	17:05
SpeedEvil	pyther: it's a toolbar icon that appears when there is new mail/sms	17:05
SpeedEvil	pyther: IIRC there is a thingy in settings	17:05
alterego	SpeedEvil: though I'm not sure I believe this for TTE "65535" :P	17:06
alterego	Prtesumably that's how it's set whilst charging, also, that should probably be -1 ..	17:06
SpeedEvil	alterego: That's when it's discharging consistently - that means 'not emptying'	17:06
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* alterego resumes his torrent to see what happens :)		17:07
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pyther	SpeedEvil: thanks	17:07
alterego	Oh my ..	17:07
alterego	Well, that makes sense ..	17:08
alterego	SpeedEvil: http://pastie.org/	17:08
alterego	I suppose that explains how bad my drainage really is ;)	17:09
* alterego turns off backlight		17:09
Stskeeps	dotblank: so it is basically mp3 streaming from grooveshark or?	17:09
alterego	Backlight makes a lot of difference ..	17:10
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Stskeeps	dotblank: i'd pay 50 eur in bounty for the 'download to my music folder while playing' feature :)	17:11
DocScrutinizer	alterego: script updates?	17:11
dotblank	Stskeeps, well you can very very easily modify the source to save mp3s instead	17:12
alterego	DocScrutinizer: the bme monitoring script SpeedEvil just provided me with	17:12
Stskeeps	dotblank: i'm crap at qt and i have other things to accomplish, so i'm lazy :P	17:12
DocScrutinizer	umm, URL here? missed that	17:12
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DocScrutinizer	are you talking about ShadowJK's bq27200 script?	17:13
dotblank	Stskeeps, ah well Im going to have to add the save mp3 feature in order to get playlist support and any experiance out of using it on 3g	17:13
Stskeeps	:nod:	17:13
alterego	DocScrutinizer: yes I believe so	17:13
DocScrutinizer	aaah, yes	17:13
Stskeeps	dotblank: let me know when you set up a donation fund :) really liking this app	17:13
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DocScrutinizer	it's quite handy esp in -r mode	17:13
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dotblank	Stskeeps, you're using it now?	17:14
Stskeeps	dotblank: yeah	17:14
dotblank	:)	17:14
alterego	DocScrutinizer: that's whaqt I'm using, thinking of piping it into rrdtool	17:14
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DocScrutinizer	whatever that is	17:14
Stskeeps	dotblank: i often have to be offline and i'm crap at synchronising music to my device	17:14
Corsac	which app?	17:15
dotblank	Corsac, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52857	17:15
dotblank	I had a working download progress bar... but I had to take it out for the upcoming playlist support and I have to redesign it	17:16
dotblank	what I would reallt like to do	17:16
dotblank	is intergrate it with last.fm	17:16
alterego	Interesting at the moment it claims to be charging ..	17:16
dotblank	and you can click on tracks your friends have listened to and searches via my app for the song	17:17
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* Stskeeps wonders if this works on diablo		17:17
dotblank	it requires libqt4.6	17:17
Stskeeps	ah	17:17
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dotblank	Stskeeps, let me know if it crashes	17:18
Stskeeps	so far nt	17:19
Stskeeps	not	17:19
dotblank	I tried reducing the memory used too... but without caching yet I would not recommend using it without wifi	17:19
dotblank	also I think I can make the ui perform a little better during downloads	17:20
dotblank	I have too many if calls in progress update	17:20
dotblank	too my knowledge tho this is the first example of phonon working with a stream QNetworkReply	17:21
Termana	dotblank, just out of interest, any word on weather Grooveshark (dis)approves of you doing this?	17:21
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dotblank	Termana, no idea	17:22
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Termana	After all, I know on the iPhone, they sell the app after a trial	17:22
dotblank	Termana, you should buy the premium membership just to be nice	17:22
dotblank	because my app has no adds, mobile and requires no login	17:22
dotblank	very rogue	17:23
Termana	I don't have an n900 yet, so I can't use your app yet. But you can bet it will be one of the first apps I install :P	17:23
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dotblank	Termana, I have a build on ubuntu	17:23
dotblank	its in my ppa	17:24
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dotblank	its an older version tho	17:24
dotblank	but it does feel much more snappy	17:24
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n900-1	hey everyone	17:25
n900-1	i want to ask, is the n900 emulator included with the nokia qt sdk 1.0 for windows ?	17:25
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nidO	yep	17:26
n900-1	how do I run it ?	17:27
n900-1	i'm reading this now lets see	17:30
n900-1	http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE/QEMU_runtime	17:30
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n900-1	yes that page had the answer	17:38
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tripzero	so after uploading a package to autobuilder, is there anyway to know if it worked?	17:39
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Corsac	there's a mailing list which does some report, but I can't remember the address	17:39
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loufoque_	Termana: the N900 is no iPhone	17:40
Termana	loufoque_, that has nothing to do with anything	17:41
Alcohol17646	N900 Îî	17:41
Alcohol17646	How many costs?	17:41
Stskeeps	Corsac: extras cauldron	17:41
tripzero	can has obs for maemo yet?	17:41
loufoque_	tripzero: obs?	17:41
tripzero	it's a build server thingy	17:42
Termana	loufoque_, Grooveshark makes you sign up for a premium account with their iPhone app. You don't need to with dotblank's N900 app	17:42
Termana	I was stating that, Grooveshark may not be happy about that	17:42
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loufoque_	grooveshark wrote the application for the iphone themselves and chose to implement this limitation	17:43
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kwtm	Hi. Is there bcrypt (or another handy text encryption program) for N900?	17:44
nidO	truecrypt's in extras	17:45
DocScrutinizer	alterego: what means "it claims to be charging"?	17:45
crashanddie	Alcohol17646: I really hope you're ready to be banned. BEHAVE!	17:45
loufoque_	Alcohol17646: about the price of a phone	17:47
Termana	loufoque_, Are you just acting stupid or are you naturally that way? If Grooveshark wants iPhone users to sign up for premium membership, it would be fair to say they would want this from other mobile device users. If they find out that this isn't the case on the n900, they could block the app from using the service.	17:47
dotblank	Termana, untill someone finds a way to unblock it	17:48
dotblank	Termana, the phone appears as a flash client	17:48
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: RFC5508 ?	17:48
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loufoque_	Termana: this doesn't make sense. A mobile device is no different than a laptop.	17:48
Stskeeps	Termana: technically people can use the flash app directly on n900 as well though	17:48
kwtm	nidO: I think you're referring to disk encryption for "truecrypt". I would like to encrypt a text file, and decrypt it when I access it (something like "bcrypt --decrypt $1 $1.decrypted && vi $1.decrypted && bcrypt --encrypt $1.decrypted $1" or something)	17:48
pupnik_	n900 kicks iphone ass so badly they are not comparable	17:48
loufoque_	Termana: the protocol is there, the application is just using it	17:49
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: something like that	17:49
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loufoque_	if they don't want people to use it from a mobile phone, they should make it part of the EULA	17:49
loufoque_	and that wouldn't be enforceable anyway	17:49
nidO	kwtm: you can essentially do that with truecrypt. granted, itll store encrypted files in a container disk, but you can happily setup a container to store a single file, rather than using the whole-disk encryption on the entire filesystem	17:50
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crashanddie	loufoque_: anything is enforceable	17:50
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kwtm	pupnik_: Hey, I want to ask how n900 is better than iPhone on the tech specs. I already told my friend about the advantages of: not locked to a mobile carrier, not locked to an app store, etc. but I want to be able to promote it on technical merits, too.	17:50
kwtm	nidO: Hmm, could try that. Thanks.	17:50
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nidO	compared to a 3gs, or a 4?	17:50
crashanddie	kwtm: you're starting a trollfest	17:51
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kwtm	crashanddie: Okay. Cancel request for iPhone vs. n900. Cancel cancel. Thx.	17:51
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loufoque_	crashanddie: not really. If I make you sign a contract that says you agree to be my slave for life, I cannot expect court to actually enforce this.	17:51
Termana	I don't think you understand. If Grooveshark don't want it to work, they will find a way to try to make it not work. In some cases, Grooveshark could sue. The whole argument stemmed from weather dotblank knew weather Grooveshark approved of his app, and any trademarks used in it. Say like the Grooveshark name?	17:51
pupnik_	yes i apologize for my comment. if you want a toy get iphone	17:51
dotblank	Termana, you are right.. they could implement ways to detect it	17:52
nidO	on the pure technical side, it's pretty easy. n900 v iphone 4, the iphone lacks a physical keyboard and has severe reception problems when you hold it without a case	17:52
crashanddie	loufoque_: completely out of proportion.	17:52
nidO	in almost every other measure, the iphone 4's better	17:52
dotblank	Termana, but ultimately youc an always spoof the flash client	17:52
nidO	software-side it's a hugely different story though.	17:52
loufoque_	crashanddie: you said "anything".	17:52
Termana	Unless they start trying to charge for using the flash client	17:52
dotblank	Termana, it just needs to be a good enough spoof	17:52
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crashanddie	loufoque_: yada yada yada	17:53
loufoque_	kwtm: the iphone is not locked to a mobile carrier	17:53
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loufoque_	locking a phone to specific carrier is illegal in most countries	17:53
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crashanddie	eh?	17:53
crashanddie	It ain't illegal in the UK, nor in France, nor in the US, nor in Spain	17:53
loufoque_	which shows how much you're ignorant about the laws that govern you.	17:54
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Termana	Nor in Australia	17:54
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crashanddie	Termana: indeed	17:54
Stskeeps	crashanddie: well, beyond 6 months in .dk it's illegal	17:54
GAN900	nidO, does not.	17:54
nidO	what does not what?	17:54
luke-jr	Stskeeps: that sounds nice	17:54
crashanddie	loufoque_: can you be less aggressive?	17:54
jacekowski	crashanddie: it is in the UK	17:54
GAN900	nidO, it has reception problems when you hold it in such a way as to have a finger bridge the two antennas.	17:54
jacekowski	crashanddie: sort of	17:55
luke-jr	Stskeeps: a nice compromise, I mean	17:55
jacekowski	crashanddie: they are required to unlock it on request	17:55
DocScrutinizer	(BME) seems Nokia decided to keep the battery charger floating @ ~4180mV, and does NOT stop charging like supposed to be done. At least that's what cell manufacturer strictly recommended to Openmoko, and that's also how all hardware charger chips I studied are built like. Strange Nokia decided to go with the float approach in BME	17:55
nidO	GAN900 which can also be easily defined as "holding it" - especially for those of us that are lefties.	17:55
alterego	DocScrutinizer: by "claims to be charging" I mean the battery status icon acts like it's charging "animated loop of battery level".	17:55
alterego	But it clearly isn't ..	17:55
DocScrutinizer	alterego: lol	17:55
crashanddie	jacekowski: nope, if you buy it from Vodafone, they are allowed to request compensation if you are taking the contract elsewhere. However, if you negotiate properly they'll give it for free. But it's definitely not illegal.	17:55
DocScrutinizer	alterego: maybe you stopped bme?	17:55
nidO	GAN900 a trend-follower friend of mine bought an iphone4 and I had a play with it last night, nowhere on the box or device does it mention that the phone's designed to be usable as a phone by right-handed people only.	17:55
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: well, big lead acid batteries are kept charged by small current flowing trough them	17:56
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nidO	yet, effectively, it is.	17:56
luke-jr	crashanddie: contract enforcement is quite legit IMO	17:56
alterego	DocScrutinizer: it just uses too much pwoer whilst under heavy 3G use :P	17:56
loufoque_	crashanddie: the only compensation they ask is for you to break your contract early.	17:56
jacekowski	crashanddie: contract is different thing	17:56
crashanddie	luke-jr: indeed	17:56
GAN900	nidO, meh.	17:56
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: I know, but seems we got no Lead-Acid cell here	17:56
luke-jr	making the device useless if you break the contract, is arguably questionable	17:56
jacekowski	crashanddie: you have to pay fees for early termination	17:56
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alterego	Anyhow, my torrent will be finished in 3 minutes, so I expect my phone to die in about 2 minute s50 seconds :P	17:56
jacekowski	crashanddie: but that's all	17:56
luke-jr	especially if the provider refuses to unlock it if you terminate the contract legally	17:56
nidO	he lives in the middle of a city, like me - max bars when the device is sitting in front of me, i pick it up and hold it to my ear, signal almost entirely vanishes over about 15 seconds	17:57
luke-jr	or goes out of business	17:57
jacekowski	crashanddie: so if you decide to go pay&go and still keep contract as well	17:57
jacekowski	crashanddie: they are required to unlock your phone	17:57
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: besides, i saw many chargers for different batteries	17:57
crashanddie	jacekowski: when I moved to Australia, my blackberry didn't work with an australian vodafone SIM. However I got my assistant (in the UK) to call Vodafone and she argued that the phone would come back to the UK and be used by another employee as soon as I got a AU contract, however needed the phone immediately. We got the unlock codes	17:57
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: hep, stadig 28 92 41 56 ?	17:57
Stskeeps	err..	17:57
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: and every sigle one has different charging curve	17:57
Stskeeps	wrong paste	17:57
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5625274.html	17:58
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: and manual always states that it is the best curve	17:58
Termana	Stskeeps, winning power ball numbers?	17:58
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: NiCad, NiMH??? wtf?	17:59
jacekowski	http://kgf.art.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1429&p=16530#p16530	17:59
jacekowski	ehhh	17:59
jacekowski	i hate fscking firefox	17:59
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: ah, maybe wrong battery type	17:59
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DocScrutinizer	I know of the "decrease-in-voltage" charge termination method	17:59
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: it's NOT APPLICABLE to LiIon	17:59
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: either way, it shouldn't wonder me if there's a thought behind the overvoltage	17:59
jacekowski	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_lock#Laws_and_Practices_on_SIM.2Fnetwork_locking	18:00
luke-jr	crashanddie: what does it matter how the phone is used, provided you maintain your contract?	18:00
crashanddie	luke-jr: contract wasn't maintained	18:01
crashanddie	luke-jr: I kept the handset for about 6 months in Aus before it was returned to the UK	18:01
luke-jr	crashanddie: my point being, what if I got a N900 and wanted to sell my subsidized phone?	18:01
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crashanddie	luke-jr: and I was a juicy contract, roughly 1000 every month	18:01
jacekowski	luke-jr: you can sell it and do whatever you want	18:01
jacekowski	luke-jr: it's yours	18:01
luke-jr	jacekowski: not if it's locked	18:02
jacekowski	luke-jr: well, mine isn't	18:02
jacekowski	90% of phones in the uk are sold unlocked	18:02
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: I don't care too much about a single charger unit manuf claiming he found Columbus' egg. I start to think when I learn a cell(!!!) manufacturer when asked by his customer(!) is recommending exactly what is implemented in at least 3 charger chips	18:02
nidO	the remaining 10% are iphones and blackberries	18:02
jacekowski	n900 battery is lipol?	18:03
nidO	other than those, no networks sell contract phones locked as a matter of course any more	18:03
crashanddie	luke-jr: "n the United Kingdom, mobile phone network providers are not obliged to provide unlocking, even after the end of the contract. Most operators offer some form of unlocking service, depending on the state of the contract and the model of phone, but usually for a charge."	18:03
luke-jr	nidO: what about blueberries?	18:03
kwtm	loufoque_: Oh! I thought, at least in the USA, that it had to be locked to a certain mobile carrier. Well, one less reason not to get an iPhone.	18:03
jacekowski	crashanddie: but they don't lock the phones	18:03
crashanddie	they do sometimes	18:03
crashanddie	anyway	18:03
jacekowski	crashanddie: they have contract with you	18:03
jacekowski	crashanddie: you have to pay them because of that	18:03
loufoque_	kwtm: in the US maybe yes, but not in Europe at least. Anyway I think it's pretty easy to unlock or buy an unlocked iPhone.	18:03
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crashanddie	my point was that there hardly is any "law" prohibiting SIM locking for subsidised phones.	18:04
jacekowski	crashanddie: why make your life harder if they have guarenteed £20-40/month for 24 months	18:04
crashanddie	My point still stands.	18:04
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: then I see Nokia in BME isn't doing that, and I frown	18:04
jacekowski	crashanddie: or early termination	18:04
loufoque_	crashanddie: there is no law prohibiting it, but there is one compelling to unlock upon demand.	18:04
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: well, thing is	18:04
crashanddie	loufoque_: only in France as far as i can tell	18:04
alterego	Weird ..	18:04
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: that how do you keep battery charged when phone is connected to charger	18:04
alterego	Does the charger pulse?	18:05
alterego	Like, 1 minute on 1 minute off?	18:05
DocScrutinizer	~tell jacekowski about bateryfaq	18:05
DocScrutinizer	~tell jacekowski about batteryfaq	18:05
jacekowski	well, so it should stop	18:06
jacekowski	let it discharge	18:06
DocScrutinizer	alterego: which charger? nevertheless, none of the units called charger in any of the phones I know does that	18:06
jacekowski	and then what?	18:06
alterego	DocScrutinizer: USB cable into my laptop ..	18:06
jacekowski	you have empty battery	18:06
kwtm	Anyone have experience with the "PyQt4 demo" package on the n900? It won't download due to missing dependencies. I wanted to check it out before I downloaded the entire full PyQT4 installation.	18:06
jacekowski	or you charge not completly empty battery	18:06
jacekowski	which has negative impact on battery capacity	18:06
alterego	There seems to be a spike in charge every minute or so.	18:06
jacekowski	not a major one	18:06
jacekowski	alterego: it affects battery capacity	18:06
alterego	jacekowski: not for LiIon's	18:07
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jacekowski	it does	18:07
jacekowski	not as much as for other types	18:07
alterego	jacekowski: nope, they like being charged ..	18:07
jacekowski	but it does affect it	18:07
alterego	You should never drain a lion ..	18:07
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: where is the batteryfaq? I want to see why my USB cable won't charge the n900 when connected to a USB charger (not a computer, just a USB charger	18:07
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jacekowski	battery has limit of charge/discharge cycles	18:07
Corsac	they like to be in the 30-70% range and stay there	18:07
crashanddie	~batteryfaq	18:07
DocScrutinizer	~batteryfaq	18:07
infobot	batteryfaq is, like, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers	18:07
alterego	jacekowski: full cycles maybe, that number grows a lot when you keep it above 50%	18:08
jacekowski	alterego: but it still affects battery life	18:08
kwtm	It's "openmoko.org", so I guess it's about cellphone/palmtop batteries in general and not about the n900 (or any nokia phone) in particular?	18:08
jacekowski	alterego: everything affects it	18:08
alterego	jacekowski: that's known as life :P	18:08
dotblank	I thought you were calling a destructor on batterfaq	18:08
dotblank	I need sleep	18:08
alterego	Heh	18:08
crashanddie	destructors are evil	18:08
alterego	dotblank: that would be: delete batteryfaq :P	18:09
crashanddie	~burn C++	18:09
jacekowski	batteryfaq = new batteryfaq();	18:09
* infobot pours gasoline all over C++, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze		18:09
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: the generic statements therein (the nes not reerring to OM Freerunner) are applicable to Nokia battery as well	18:09
jacekowski	~burn crash and die	18:09
* infobot pours gasoline all over crash and die, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze		18:09
jacekowski	anyways	18:09
jacekowski	i'm going home	18:09
crashanddie	jacekowski: Batteryfaq batteryfaq = new Batteryfqa();	18:09
jacekowski	batterywtf	18:10
crashanddie	s/fqa/faq/	18:10
infobot	crashanddie meant: jacekowski: Batteryfaq batteryfaq = new Batteryfaq();	18:10
jacekowski	anyways, bye	18:10
dotblank	Oh god look what I started	18:10
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dotblank	#include "batteryfaq.h"	18:10
crashanddie	dotblank: I am looking.	18:10
DocScrutinizer	anyways, at OM we had to learn doing the "Nokia way" we got 'pregnant' cels after ~6 months	18:11
crashanddie	anyway, got shit to do, later all	18:11
crashanddie	Also, loufoque_, please stop bullshitting your way through life. And don't go calling people ignorant because they are claiming things you don't believe, even though, obviously, they would appear to be right.	18:12
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flux	can I find 3g signal strength (in dBm) from /sys or dbus somewhere?	18:12
crashanddie	'later	18:12
alterego	Who are you talking to?	18:13
DocScrutinizer	while my old Nokia 6210 (strange enough) took care about the LiIon by strictly following the 'orthodox method' of ocasional topup charge cycles nad discharging in between to ~80%, has managed to keep the cell alife (= >75% of design capacity) for EIGHT YEARS	18:13
alterego	flux: signal strength is advertised by dbus signals	18:13
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loufoque_	crashanddie: you're wrong.	18:13
alterego	loufoque_: he thinks you're wrong, agree to disagree and change the subject.	18:14
loufoque_	crashanddie: and unemployed	18:14
crashanddie	what does that have to do with anything?	18:14
kwtm	DocScrutinizer: That's probably the first info about battery charging that I've seen that has evidence to back it up. :)	18:14
alterego	loufoque_: no need to be a dick now.	18:14
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jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: pregnant cells?	18:14
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loufoque_	alterego: you told me to change the subject!	18:14
*** loufoque_ was kicked by crashanddie (fuck off, wanker)		18:14
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crashanddie	anyway, 'later	18:14
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: cell swelling	18:14
jacekowski	crashanddie: you're unemplyed?	18:14
alterego	Heh, I did tell him that ..	18:14
jacekowski	unemployed*	18:14
kwtm	jacekowski: I think he's talking about how batteries grow larger (thicker) with use... I didn't know until recvently.	18:15
crashanddie	jacekowski: aye	18:15
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: well, i saw that happening only on nokia phones	18:15
jacekowski	crashanddie: and you live off my taxes, like SpeedEvil?	18:15
crashanddie	jacekowski: nope	18:15
kwtm	If I want to write a ash script using dbus, is there something like qdbus on n900 so I can browse what's on the dbus?	18:15
MohammadAG	Need testers NAO http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/frozen-bubble/2.2.0-1maemo4/	18:16
crashanddie	jacekowski: I'm not getting any benefits, regardless of the fact that I've lived and worked and paid taxes in 3 countries	18:16
* MohammadAG slaps alterego, an 'eye' for an 'eye', go test my app!		18:16
dotblank	MohammadAG, I'll test it	18:16
MohammadAG	:D	18:16
alterego	Heh	18:16
alterego	Yessir	18:16
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jacekowski	bye	18:16
jacekowski	i'm going home	18:16
DocScrutinizer	kwtm: exactly. The cells become twice as thick and electrically dead	18:16
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loufoque_	that was violent.	18:17
DocScrutinizer	yeeha, thunderstorm	18:17
loufoque_	DocScrutinizer: the nokia battery is not as bad as people make it to be	18:17
DocScrutinizer	loufoque_: "people"?	18:18
loufoque_	people on the internet	18:18
DocScrutinizer	loufoque_: [citation needed]	18:18
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DocScrutinizer	nobody here said BL-5J is bad	18:18
Appiah	I heard there are rumors on the internets	18:19
DocScrutinizer	I have doubts about N900 maybe treating it bad though	18:19
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MohammadAG	Appiah, you can't believe everything you read on the internet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jlWcyE2E1s	18:19
kwtm	Why do I get "unable to install <package name>/ Some application packages required for the installation are minssing"? Does that mean the Maemo repository is missing some packages?	18:20
MohammadAG	logs would be more useful than some generic UI message	18:20
loufoque_	kwtm: happened to me as well	18:21
loufoque_	kwtm: had to manually add some repositories	18:21
alterego	DocScrutinizer: you're going to make me insgtall perl?!?	18:21
loufoque_	which are the missing packages?	18:21
DocScrutinizer	alterego: I'm not THAT pervert	18:21
kwtm	MohammadAG: Are you referring to my error message? It says that the following are missing: "python2.5-qt4-core (listed twice), python2.5-qt4-xml, python2.5-qt4-gui ... (among others)	18:21
nidO	I say the bl-5j is bad :(	18:21
Lilly	is there adbe flash player 10 for maemo?	18:21
SpeedEvil	Lilly: yes.	18:22
dotblank	MohammadAG, perl-modulues is missing from either extra-dev or testing	18:22
loufoque_	also is it a non-global firmware?	18:22
SpeedEvil	Lilly: But you can't have it.	18:22
kwtm	loufoque_: What other repositories are there to add? WOuld love to know. Thx.	18:22
alterego	MohammadAG: you're going to make me insgtall perl?!? sorry DocScrutinizer	18:22
dotblank	MohammadAG, preventing me from installing it	18:22
nidO	the bp-4l is like 5 years older, the same physical volume, and like 15% higher capacity	18:22
Lilly	why?	18:22
Lilly	repository or hack	18:22
MohammadAG	dotblank, perl-modules is in devel, I'll check testing	18:22
SpeedEvil	(neither can anyone else not of the select few who have had it running for nokia.)	18:22
SpeedEvil	Lilly: Good question.	18:22
SpeedEvil	Lilly: It was demonstrated running ~6 months ago.	18:22
Lilly	hack	18:22
kwtm	nidO: Have you been using bp-4L? Works well? Any experience with not-officially-from-Nokia batteries?	18:22
MohammadAG	err	18:23
MohammadAG	X-Fade, ping	18:23
nidO	I used the bp-4l in my e90, never used an aftermarket battery instead of it though	18:23
nidO	and gave me ~6 days use on that device	18:23
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loufoque_	kwtm: can you paste the content of /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list somewhere?	18:23
DocScrutinizer	nidO: It (bp-4j) might have other unpleasant properties, like dependencies on env temp, or high Z	18:23
MohammadAG	alterego, lol sorry who?	18:23
MohammadAG	alterego, and you made me install PySide:p	18:23
alterego	MohammadAG: but this is perl!!!	18:24
alterego	MohammadAG: why does it depend on Perl?	18:24
Lilly	i must hacking flash.*.tar.gz?	18:24
SpeedEvil	Lilly: There is no released package of flash 10 anywhere for maemo.	18:24
kwtm	loufoque_: Umm... not that great at pasting something from inside the n900. Do I need to connect to the internet via n900 to do so? (I can't just hook up the n900 to my laptop via USB, right?)	18:24
Lilly	but for linux 32 bit there is	18:25
loufoque_	kwtm: you can just hook up the n900 to your laptop via USB	18:25
SpeedEvil	Lilly: In principle it might not be impossible to repackage one of the other flash 10s for arm that have been released, but it's a _huge_ task	18:25
SpeedEvil	Lilly: The n900 does not run on x86	18:25
loufoque_	kwtm: or you can transfer between your N900 and your PC using wifi	18:25
loufoque_	by wifi I mean your local network	18:25
Lilly	SpComb, thx	18:25
loufoque_	you could also use bluetooth	18:25
Lilly	ops	18:25
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Lilly	SpeedEvil, thx for all	18:25
SpeedEvil	np	18:25
kwtm	loufoque_: But when I connect the n900 via USB, the root directory is not visible, just /home/user/MyDocs (there's a VFAT volume that it umounts and then gives to my laptop).	18:25
* SpeedEvil wants flash 10.		18:25
loufoque_	kwtm: if you have a SD card you can physically move it too	18:26
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dotblank	kwtm, this is how its supposed to work	18:26
SpeedEvil	I hit the 'flash 10 only' content on youtube a couple of times this week	18:26
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kwtm	loufoque_: Still new at transferring ... I don't have a router here; the hotel WiFi won't let me talk between devices.	18:26
SpeedEvil	kwtm: Do you ahve a USB cable?	18:26
MohammadAG	alterego, cause... "# Yes it uses Perl, you non-believer :-)."	18:26
kwtm	So I guess I'll copy the /etc/apt/sources onto MyDocs and then hook it up to the laptop.	18:26
loufoque_	kwtm: you could copy the file to /home/user/MyDocs with your terminal on the N900	18:26
kwtm	SpeedEvil: I do have a USB cable.	18:26
MohammadAG	alterego, the whole game is in perl	18:26
SpeedEvil	kwtm: you could tether over USB.	18:27
kwtm	I'll do as loufoque_ suggests since I know how to do that, but, SpeedEvil: how do I "tether"? Does that mean I can see all of the N900 file structure on my laptop?	18:27
SpeedEvil	kwtm: Hmm. You can setup USB networking	18:28
loufoque_	that means you can have the N900 use USB for the networking	18:28
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alterego	MohammadAG: :(	18:28
nidO	if you setup usb or bluetooth networking you could just access the entire device via scp	18:28
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking	18:28
SpeedEvil	Or setup an ad-hoc network.	18:28
MohammadAG	alterego, anyways, test it later when I'm the maintainer of perl-modules, cause I can't promote it	18:28
E0x	is anyway to use the Nokia SDK emulator for test python code ?	18:28
obsidieth	id like samba.	18:28
alterego	MohammadAG: oh, okay. PM me or summink :)	18:28
SpeedEvil	obsidieth: I assume this is a windows laptop?	18:29
obsidieth	it is.	18:29
obsidieth	winscp is a bit annoying. i like mounting network drives.	18:29
dotblank	scp on linux is the best thing since sliced bread	18:30
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kwtm	dotblank: scp is the only usable file transfer method I've found, but I find it very unwieldy. I need something to browse the remote files, or I might not spell the pathname correctly.	18:31
loufoque_	sshfs is quite nice as well	18:31
loufoque_	if you want something graphical	18:31
loufoque_	I mean if you want to be able to run your own graphical apps directly on the files	18:32
loufoque_	otherwise you can just do everything in the ssh session	18:32
loufoque_	with vim	18:32
SpeedEvil	kwtm: browsing over sftp 'just works' - onmany linux distributions file managers.	18:32
kwtm	loufoque_: pasted to http://pastebin.com/rsbHFkN4	18:32
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kwtm	SpeedEvil: Oh, there's sftp on n900? Didn't know --will explore.	18:32
obsidieth	openssh-server.	18:33
SpeedEvil	yeah	18:33
SpeedEvil	after that, I mean	18:33
kwtm	sources.list shows downloads.maemo.nokia.com and repository.maemo.org ; should I add other repositories? Didn't see any others on casual googling.	18:34
alterego	300K/s on 3G nice :)	18:34
obsidieth	i get about that if im near melbourne	18:34
obsidieth	else its poop.	18:34
alterego	Actually ~320K/s that's pretty sweet	18:34
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loufoque_	there is also dropbear	18:36
FredrIQ	KB?	18:36
FredrIQ	or Kb?	18:36
loufoque_	which is more lightweight than openssh	18:36
* FredrIQ gets around 45KB/s on 3G at home		18:37
FredrIQ	well	18:37
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FredrIQ	acually it's like 47.6 constantly	18:37
alterego	loufoque_: drop bear is rubbish though :P	18:37
FredrIQ	it doesn't want to go over that	18:37
loufoque_	alterego: why?	18:37
alterego	loufoque_: I just find somethings don't work .. like sftp ..	18:38
loufoque_	haven't tested sftp	18:38
loufoque_	don't use that crap	18:38
alterego	I've rhad far too many issues with dropbear to want to ever use it again tbh.	18:38
loufoque_	I do think sshfs doesn't work though	18:38
alterego	That's because sshfs uses sftp ..	18:38
loufoque_	kwtm: I personally have something different for deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/002 ./	18:39
loufoque_	kwtm: do you use a non-global firmware?	18:39
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ebzzry	Hi! I have put 'exec /bin/bash' in my ~/.profile and now I'm in a reboot loop (6 dots). What should I do to recover?	18:45
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dotblank	ebzzry, ouch im not too sure what you can do	18:47
dotblank	you may have to reflash	18:47
DocScrutinizer	wow. a ~100kA discharge arc, ending on a roof 100m away, is definitely a nice experience :-DD	18:48
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ebzzry	dotblank: iirc, I have installed an app that lets me recover without reflashing; I forgot the name.	18:49
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dotblank	ive been testing my app but now im out of songs to test with	18:51
dotblank	anyone have recommendations for music?	18:51
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ebzzry	Gah. I may really have to reflash. What's the most ideal starting point?	18:52
DocScrutinizer	dotblank: Stockhausen	18:52
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loufoque_	is there a way to choose which icon to use for contacts?	18:54
loufoque_	sometimes it assigns the msn icon but not always	18:54
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an0therb0x	is there a way to save all my contacts to sim on the N900	19:02
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an0therb0x	also is there a way or an app that displays date + time on the desktop ?	19:03
* alterego plays some zen bound, really like this game. Makes me want to get into GLES		19:03
mirf	are friends electric?	19:03
DocScrutinizer	an0therb0x: N900 has 'rich contacts' - you can't save that type of contacts to a SIM	19:04
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jakde	hi	19:04
jakde	for the price of an n97 what do you guys suggest i get	19:04
jakde	i've heard the software on n97s are bad	19:04
jakde	any ideas on what i should get, i could throw in a little more if i can get something with maemo on it	19:05
DocScrutinizer	jakde: The SW on N97 isn't maemo anyways	19:05
jakde	i know	19:05
DocScrutinizer	jakde: obviously you want N900 then	19:05
jakde	its symbian, i jsut got the phone today but many are telling me the software is crap on this	19:06
jakde	:D	19:06
jakde	is it a big price difference between the n900 and n97?	19:06
alterego	Not so much anymore n;)	19:06
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: it would be useful if the N900 could export contacts to a sim, even if only as an emergency backup	19:06
DocScrutinizer	google is your friend - and amazon	19:06
loufoque_	jakde: a N900	19:07
barisione	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/contacts-merger/0.1.3-0/ why does it says that some deps are missing?	19:07
barisione	those libs are in pr1.2...	19:07
jakde	ok nn900 is at $480	19:07
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DocScrutinizer	Ikarus: which part of contacts? the "phone" or the "phone (home)" or the "mobile" or what? it's really a lot of manual work for the user to do that	19:07
loufoque_	barisione: do you have the global firmware?	19:07
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barisione	global firmware?	19:08
jakde	and n97 is at $350	19:08
an0therb0x	DocScrutinizer: "rich contacts" is that an app or system setting ?	19:08
jakde	erm	19:08
loufoque_	barisione: or do you have UK, US, African firmware?	19:08
barisione	Ikarus: sims are crap	19:08
barisione	they have too many limitations	19:08
DocScrutinizer	an0therb0x: it's a make up term I invented to describe the properties of N900 contacts to have multiple info stored to one contact	19:09
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barisione	loufoque_: I would guess UK, but those libs should be at the same version	19:09
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: my SE phone exports contacts like name;M -> number name;H -> number name;W -> number (representing mobile, home and work	19:09
loufoque_	jakde: 450 for the N900	19:09
jakde	loufoque_ yep	19:09
Ikarus	and enough other variations	19:09
loufoque_	barisione: you would guess? Didn't you flash it yourself?	19:09
barisione	loufoque_: no	19:10
DocScrutinizer	Ikarus: sure there's a plethora of proprietary ways to deal with that	19:10
loufoque_	oh right you can do over the air as well	19:10
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: yup, the point is "emergency backup"	19:10
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DocScrutinizer	Ikarus: but what's the use of it	19:10
barisione	Ikarus: it's an emergency backup that loses data	19:10
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: I need to be able to drop my SIM in any other phone and atleast with some difficulty call my contacts	19:10
DocScrutinizer	Ikarus: do 'emergency backup" by exporting vcard to uSD	19:10
loufoque_	barisione: I don't know if it's because I had UK firmware, but I noticed my repositories were not the same as someone else and I was missing packages	19:10
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Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: no, none of my spare phones have uSD	19:11
Ikarus	anyway, pizza	19:11
barisione	Ikarus: save your contacts in another way (backup, vcf file, whatever) but sims lose data so it was decided to consider them legacy and handle them only for import	19:11
ebzzry	dotblank: Since the offending part is in my ~/.profile, should I reflash the eMMC?	19:11
DocScrutinizer	Ikarus: I see the validity of the demand - but I as well see the difficulties	19:11
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barisione	loufoque_: I'm sure those libs are at the same version everywhere (I actually work on libosso-abook)	19:12
Ikarus	barisione: I prefer to have something over nothing	19:12
loufoque_	barisione: I could install contacts merger fine	19:12
barisione	loufoque_: yeah, I cannot understand why it says that. but nobody complained	19:12
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barisione	Ikarus: a half broken feature is not very good for a consumer product	19:13
loufoque_	barisione: oops sorry I thought you said you were missing the packages...	19:13
BCMM	does maemo have a vnc viewer that supports "reverse" vnc?	19:13
DocScrutinizer	I suggest you write up a script maybe involving sqlite3 for contacts retrieval and pnatd to generically write to SIM	19:13
BCMM	e.g. vncviewer -listen	19:13
jakde	i dont know if i made a bad decision	19:13
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jakde	i tried maemo and like it but went with symbian instead	19:13
barisione	Ikarus: people would complain that they names are cut, details are missing, etc.	19:13
jakde	just curious	19:14
Ikarus	barisione: yet Sony Ericsson does it, Siemens did, etc	19:14
barisione	DocScrutinizer: there is no sqlite involved in contacts	19:14
jakde	in what ways is the maemo better than the symbian software	19:14
jakde	in speed?	19:14
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jacekowski	hmmm,	19:14
jacekowski	i can't think of one	19:14
Ikarus	DocScrutinizer: but yeah I have been tempted to write just such a thing	19:14
DocScrutinizer	barisione: mhm. what else then are contacts stored in?	19:14
jakde	it's got a faster processor?	19:14
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jakde	n900 has no java does it?	19:14
loufoque_	barisione: the page you gave is for pr1.0, not 1.2	19:14
BCMM	jakde: compatibility	19:14
barisione	Ikarus: symbian does too, but the richer the address book gets the more crap the exports becomes and the more complains people have	19:15
SpeedEvil	does nokia pay license fees for sybian?	19:15
jakde	BCMM: nnoted	19:15
SpeedEvil	who owns it?	19:15
jakde	but does it have java?	19:15
barisione	SpeedEvil: nokia owns it	19:15
jakde	n900 doesnt have jav	19:15
BCMM	jakde: maemo is a pretty standard linux distro	19:15
jacekowski	jakde: processor isn't related to os	19:15
jakde	jacekowski: ok	19:15
jakde	but it does have a faster proc does it not than the n97?	19:15
barisione	DocScrutinizer: bsddb, but some details are stored in other backends	19:15
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: nokia owns symbian	19:15
BCMM	jakde: there is no java atm, i think, but it is quite feasible	19:16
jacekowski	jakde: not a lot faster	19:16
jakde	jacekowski: also it has no java	19:16
jakde	BCMM right	19:16
jakde	issnt that a drawback?	19:16
loufoque_	barisione: Fremantle1.2 Extras seems to be missing from maemo.org	19:16
jacekowski	nobody cares about java	19:16
jacekowski	and flash	19:16
loufoque_	except java and flash developers	19:16
jakde	erm the iphone and android do and	19:16
jakde	well you want to upload flash videos if you liekd	19:16
jakde	its a big step	19:16
barisione	loufoque_: pr1.0? really? why? /me doesn't see any point in having a page for a so old release	19:16
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loufoque_	barisione: on the link you gave, if you hover libosso-abook it says PR1.0	19:17
ebzzry	Hi! Is reflashing the only option if I have 'exec /bin/bash' in my ~/.profile and I get stuck at the 6 dots during bootup?	19:17
Stskeeps	that was a bit stupid, ebzzry	19:17
Stskeeps	:P	19:17
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jakde	so there is no flash support for maemo yet?	19:18
loufoque_	ebzzry: probably	19:18
loufoque_	jakde: flash has had flash for ages	19:18
loufoque_	oops	19:18
loufoque_	I meant maemo	19:18
BCMM	jakde: maemo comes with flash...	19:18
mmarc__	hi, do we have bionic threading lib on maemo?	19:18
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jakde	ah ok	19:18
ebzzry	Stskeeps: Yeah. But I wanted to see it myself. :)	19:18
jakde	so whats the replacement for java in the n900?	19:18
SpeedEvil	ebzzry: In principle you could use flasher to boot the kernel with init=/bin/sh - or whatever. But that won't quite work.	19:18
Stskeeps	C++?	19:18
Stskeeps	:P	19:18
ebzzry	If that's the case, is reflashing the eMMC the only option available left?	19:18
jakde	i mean since it has no java, what was the alternative?	19:18
ebzzry	Or there are some better alternatives?	19:18
BCMM	jakde: what do you mean?	19:19
ebzzry	s/there are/are there	19:19
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BCMM	jakde: native apps, i guess	19:20
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BCMM	jakde: portable binaries aren't a big deal when you can just recompile most Linux applications	19:20
BCMM_	jakde: the n900 alternative to Java is C++	19:21
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loufoque_	BCMM: setting up a cross-compiler is no easy task	19:23
ebzzry	SpeedEvil: Really?	19:23
BCMM_	loufoque_: eh?	19:23
loufoque_	you can run java on the N900 if you really want to	19:23
BCMM_	yeah, i know	19:23
BCMM_	but it is not a supported thing	19:24
loufoque_	what do you mean "eh?"	19:24
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BCMM_	well, i was under the impression that there is a pre-set-up cross-compiler for maemo that one can download	19:24
alterego	Yeahm, no one is crazy enough to do their own cross compilation tool chain ...	19:25
alterego	Well, no one sane would bother considering we have a fair few already built for us.	19:25
BCMM_	jakde: anyway, a replacement for which java use case?	19:25
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alterego	Java is a pos	19:25
BCMM_	for browser applets, people use Flash or modern HTML for most thigns now	19:25
loufoque_	BCMM_: only on linux	19:25
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loufoque_	what if you're into bsd	19:25
alterego	loufoque_: works on BSD too ..	19:26
BCMM_	for applications, well, a java app need modification for a new platform really, since the platform will have a different screen resolution and input system and file system structure	19:26
alterego	Doesn't BNSD have that Linux compatibility layer ?	19:26
jakde	BSD does but not sure how it works on phones	19:26
loufoque_	what if you run on powerpc	19:26
BCMM_	all using c++ instead adds is having to do a recompile...	19:26
jakde	linux has a BSD compatibility layer for POSIX and such	19:26
alterego	loufoque_: then you deserve to be left out for dead :P	19:26
BCMM_	jakde: i'm not quite sure i understand	19:27
BCMM_	BSD and Linux are both POSIX systems	19:27
loufoque_	too bad Qt isn't really C++	19:27
BCMM_	and BSD has a compatibility layer for Linux binaries	19:27
ebzzry	BCMM_: *BSDs aren't.	19:29
BCMM_	ebzzry: BSD supports POSIX	19:30
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jakde	BCMM: lionux is not a POSIX system	19:30
jakde	it supports it	19:30
jakde	UNIX/BSD is	19:31
jakde	among others	19:31
BCMM_	Linux supports posix, but is not officially certified	19:31
BCMM_	jakde: what does that mean?	19:31
jakde	posix compatible?	19:31
BCMM_	what is a POSIX system, other than a system that will run POSIX-compliant software?	19:31
SpeedEvil	ebzzry: The flasher can pass kerneloptions, yes. If that will help is another question.	19:32
jakde	its not a fully posix compliant system	19:32
ebzzry	SpeedEvil: Do you think what you suggested earlier will work, to avoid the reboot loop?	19:33
jakde	anyhow this is OT	19:33
ebzzry	jakde: I agree.	19:33
SpeedEvil	ebzzry: yes. However, you will not be able to easily repair the boot loop, as you have no fbconsole. I'm unsure if the keyboard is attached tot he console in the normal way either.	19:34
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ebzzry	SpeedEvil: for the sake of redundancy, I'll repeat what I said earlier. The culprit 'exec /bin/bash' is in my ~/.profile. So will flashing a FIASCO image not work?	19:35
SpeedEvil	ebzzry: I'm unsure.	19:35
ebzzry	SpeedEvil: OK. I hope somebody else can answer that question.	19:36
alterego	Heh, imagine the negative publicity and it's effect on Apple this antenna issue is causing. I still don't think it'll effect their sales though ..	19:38
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alterego	Apple fags will buy a phone that's defectivee, if it comes from Steve's butt hole.	19:38
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dotblank	need another song	19:39
ebzzry	Slightly off-topic, what are the key differences between the US and Global release of the firmwares have?	19:39
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dotblank	/artist	19:39
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alterego	ebzzry: not anything really, just about how yourregional updates occur afaik	19:39
ebzzry	alterego: OK	19:40
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alterego	ebzzry: I'm sure there are some other differencesx sbut I wouldn't worry baout it.	19:40
ebzzry	Is there a way to get the data on the eMMC when I can't boot properly?	19:43
alterego	Erm, have you tried having the device off, then just plugging it in to the usb port?	19:44
alterego	I think it defaults to mass storage mode then.	19:44
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alterego	Hah, read a comment where some guy blamed the iPhone 4 antenna issue on Wozniac, pahah	19:45
mortini	that crazy woz breakin' the iphones.	19:45
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alterego	I also like how they're all calling the iPhone _4_ a first gen product because of this gigantic failure	19:58
alterego	It's the forth generation, O_O	19:58
alterego	That's why it's called iPhone 4 ..	19:59
dotblank	im not going to get an iphone and I never will	20:00
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alterego	I really want one ..	20:00
alterego	So I can use it to throw at people that actually buy Apple shit :)	20:00
dotblank	I'm boycotting MS and apple	20:00
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dotblank	im trying to boycott google but thats just impossible	20:01
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alterego	Meh, I only use google for searching	20:02
alterego	Mainly because of muscle memory :P	20:02
mirf	f6, boobs	20:02
dotblank	my email runs on gmail	20:02
pyther	Does anyone have ATT's Unlimited Messaging Plan?	20:02
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alterego	Poor you :P	20:02
alterego	I use hotmail muahahaha	20:03
dotblank	pyhimys, no but i have tmo's unlimited msg plan	20:03
alterego	As a spam bucket account, I've had it for probably 11 years	20:03
alterego	I use an independant Net BSD shell provider for my personal email.	20:03
alterego	And I host my own email server for serious stuff :)	20:03
dotblank	I have gmail accounts going from username1-100	20:03
alterego	That's really sad.	20:03
dotblank	alterego, I agree	20:04
dotblank	alterego, I hate how gmail doesn't support gpg	20:04
ebzzry	alterego: I did follow what you advised me to do. But on my system I get /dev/sdb and /dev/sdc both unreadable and unmountable.	20:04
dotblank	like at least acknowledge somthing is valid	20:04
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alterego	ebzzry: interesting, well, I've not actually ever used that feature.	20:07
alterego	ebzzry: if you just flash root fs, you don't wipe eMMC btw :)	20:07
ebzzry	Is there a way to reset the contents of /home/user (not including MyDocs)?	20:08
alterego	No	20:08
alterego	Erm ..	20:08
alterego	Maybe, but sounds like there's something very odd going on if you're seeing device nodes for your drives but no partitions, what Linux dist are you using?	20:09
ebzzry	alterego: Debian	20:10
alterego	Hmm, 32 or 64 bit?	20:10
ebzzry	alterego: I tried plugging the device to a Windows system, and it shows up as two (2) Removable Disks, which are both inaccessible.	20:10
ebzzry	alterego: 32	20:10
alterego	Hrm, well, that should work :P	20:11
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alterego	Maybe ask on t.m.o	20:11
ebzzry	alterego: Will do.	20:11
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alterego	Wow, even the iPhone's 5M acmera is in a pathetically stupid position,.	20:12
alterego	Is it actually only me that thinks all the iPhones look shit?	20:12
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alterego	And I look at this, and it makes me feel really sad about Apple fags: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM3kvJxWsgo&NR=1	20:17
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alterego	cell based location services, wow, that's revolutionary. Being able to set alarms programatically, wow ...	20:19
alterego	Background uploading to flickr ...	20:19
alterego	Great ...	20:19
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andrewfblack	Hello	20:20
flailingmonkey	yerp	20:21
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Lilly	can i install jvm? Or i must install microemulator?	20:26
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ebzzry	alterego: I have just posted to t.m.o. I have started crossing my fingers.	20:28
flailingmonkey	Lilly: you have to install java for microemulator to work	20:28
flailingmonkey	the microemulator install probably automatically installs a java runtime though	20:29
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pupnik_	can n900 store contacts to sim card?	20:30
Lilly	Ok, i install microemulator thx flailingmonkey	20:30
flailingmonkey	microemulator is written in java after all. your usual desktop java install can't run the java programs that are made for feature phones. so that is why microemulator exists	20:31
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DocScrutinizer	pupnik_: is that a prank question? we got that topic some 2h ago	20:43
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timeless_mbp	hey, has anyone written a group sms feature?	20:43
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DocScrutinizer	pupnik_: quite obviously there's an import-from-sim menu in contacts-app, but no export-to-sim feature	20:46
DocScrutinizer	pupnik_: and also quite obviously SIM isn't capable to store a complex contact like found in contacts-app/db	20:47
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DocScrutinizer	(I admit this rationale is true since 1999 when 6210 nevertheless DID export of contacts to SIM)	20:49
Dassu	any app that allows me to draw on images?	20:54
nas_	Dassu: GIMP ! ! ! ! !	20:58
chem\|st	Dassu: hmm many...	20:58
nas_	EasyDebian -> gimp	20:58
nas_	and actualy runs quite fast ..	20:58
chem\|st	nas_: 1337?	20:59
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nas_	?? what ?	20:59
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merlin1991	chem\|st h3 d03$n't kn0w wh4t 1337 !$	21:03
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chem\|st	merlin1991: h3 d03$ d/-\mn 1337	21:05
merlin1991	I think we should stop again :D	21:06
chem\|st	;)	21:06
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chem\|st	used to live in a city with car registration DA.. a matte black sportscar with "DA-MN 1337"	21:07
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alterego	Wow, you do an image search on google for "iPhone 4" and you get nothing.	21:11
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chem\|st	alterego: 5th picture is an iphone 4 for me	21:16
alterego	The one steve is holding? rubbish	21:16
alterego	This is 5 for me http://iphonesoft.fr/images/iphone-4g-01.jpg	21:17
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pyther	Hi	21:22
pyther	How can I have my phone prompt me to connect to the 2g/3g network using pidgin?	21:23
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trip0	ptyher: how would the phone "prompt" you?	21:24
trip0	via IM?	21:24
pyther	basically I want to allow 2g/3g access only to pidgin	21:25
pyther	is this possible?	21:25
trip0	no	21:25
pyther	Ahh man that sucks	21:25
trip0	i suppose you could do some fancy iptables stuff	21:25
pyther	someone told me I could do it on a per-application basis	21:25
trip0	but i have no idea how to do that...	21:26
trip0	you can always just stop running apps that would use 3g	21:26
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pyther	trip0: hmm that would work, although I do like my weather applet	21:27
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trip0	pyther, look up the man pages for iptables. you shoudl be able to block all the ports except the ones pidgin uses	21:28
pyther	trip0: I might do that, however my carrier isn't being to friendly to tell me what IM services are bundled under the "Text Messaging" plan	21:29
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trip0	pyther, i'm not sure of your carrier specifically, but i think generally they will give you a "data" plan which covers IM and all other internet activites	21:30
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trip0	text messaging actually happens over the voice not the data iirc	21:31
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pyther	trip0: my carrier is ATT they want to sell my a data plan, but I don't want it, there unlimited text messaging includes instant messaging	21:32
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trip0	pyther, its probably "instant messaging" for specific phones.	21:33
trip0	the n900 does instant messaging over the internet which requires data	21:33
trip0	or wifi	21:33
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trip0	i have att as well. i can't even get attwifi on my n900	21:34
trip0	:(	21:34
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alterego	They can firewall usage to only allow IM protocols and ports	21:34
pyther	Hmm I thought my LG used 3g probably just safer no to bother with 2g/3g	21:34
benno2	Hi, does anyone when I launch an app from the application menu, are stdout,stderr redirected to /dev/null ?	21:34
alterego	So, it might work like that with the N900 regardless.	21:34
flailingmonkey	pyther: that plan isn't for data	21:35
pyther	alterego: yah the only problem is I can't get any specs on what ports traffic the blacklist from data charging for IM	21:35
pyther	flailingmonkey: yah I know, I only want to use it for IM	21:35
flailingmonkey	pyther: some at&t phones have IM clients that use SMS to send and receive IMs	21:35
pyther	flailingmonkey: ahh do they really	21:35
pyther	ok that is probably what my LG was using :(	21:35
flailingmonkey	pyther: yes, its a terrible hack	21:35
alterego	And if it's firewall and not some crazy protocol analytics, you might be able to setup an SSH proxy on one of those ports and use it as an unlimited internet copnnection :)	21:36
alterego	Though, if they had their shit they'd probably limit by remote address too.	21:36
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pyther	well it is att and they are stingant on their network	21:36
pyther	Can't justify the $15/month	21:37
flailingmonkey	alterego: see above, it is all SMS based	21:37
alterego	flailingmonkey: oh, they have some kind of IM gateway?	21:37
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flailingmonkey	alterego: yeah, that way the feature phone apps just use SMS instead of dealing with IP networking	21:38
alterego	Hmmm,	21:38
alterego	That's interesting,	21:38
alterego	Actually, I'm completely uninterested tbh :)	21:38
alterego	I think everyone should have unlimited mobile internet access.	21:38
alterego	flat rate, let contension ratio decide on bandwidth :)	21:39
flailingmonkey	alterego: of course, but we don't have to engineer their network architecture :P	21:39
alterego	Prioritize emergency services and done.	21:39
alterego	Instead, we get stupid 500Mb limits	21:40
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alterego	I can't work with 500M, I'd need, I estimate at least 5G ..	21:40
flailingmonkey	mobile phone companies don't want to provide internet. its a big can of worms, and doesn't use the infrastructre they had put in for voice	21:40
alterego	This is mainly because my phone is also my home internet connection ..	21:40
flailingmonkey	but they have to because competitors already do	21:41
alterego	flailingmonkey: I don't agree, I think they do want to be ISP's, because they're doing it. And they make a lot of money doing it, and it was they who installed the new data orientated infrastructure to handle it.	21:41
alterego	Mobile telecoms are now internet comms and they need to fully understand that.	21:42
flailingmonkey	new companies can't enter the market because of the barriers to entry due to the very high costs to set up their own infrastructure, and the frequency licenses too	21:42
alterego	The internet is the future, VoIP will take over and it'll all be about data pipes in the end.	21:43
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flailingmonkey	and new companies would orient themselves in that direction. but as I said, they aren't able to enter the market	21:43
flailingmonkey	so the current carriers make decisions to make money from all the infrastructure they already have for voice	21:44
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flailingmonkey	as long as they move as slowly as possible, they minimize competition from each other, and make more money for less cost	21:45
alterego	i love maem	21:45
mlfoster	glezos: Dimitris? time for a quick question about uploading a po file to a project on meego.transifex.net?	21:45
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pyther	Skype can recieve and send sms messages, right?	21:53
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luke-jr	pyther: unlikely	21:53
johns	Hi	21:54
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flailingmonkey	the skype implementation in fremantle, i don't think it supports sms	22:36
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flailingmonkey	bye	23:00
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BCMM	gah, street view stopped working	23:03
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E0x	is not flash 10 now requierd ?	23:05
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Arkenoi	it damn sucks that any received notification resets crtl-shift-R state :-/	23:07
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MohammadAG51	X-Fade, ping	23:11
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b-man	~ping	23:34
infobot	~pong	23:34
alterego	Perfect video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54g6Td0RBE0	23:38
alterego	3:40 in	23:38
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* lcuk2 puts 10p in the channel		23:45
* MohammadAG51 starts talking		23:46
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lcuk2	MohammadAG51, do the words per minute increase based on the number of 10ps?	23:46
MohammadAG51	lcuk2, nope, only the period of time	23:46
lcuk2	thats reasonable im quite busy lol	23:47
* lcuk2 will just bob back everynow and then		23:47
MohammadAG51	aww	23:47
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* RST38h swallows 10 pennies and predicts the future		23:50
lcuk2	oooh, go on then	23:51
* lcuk2 is just unpacking all his stuff and filling desk back up		23:51
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RST38h	lcuk: The End is definitely coming.	23:53
RST38h	Good night.	23:54
MohammadAG51	LOL	23:54
MohammadAG51	lcuk2, that's what you get for 10p :P	23:55
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pyther	Anyone know if there is a way to group contacts?	23:57
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