IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-06-18

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MohammadAG51alterego, requesting permission to fsck up your script :P00:05
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LullenIf I make a program that makes you add stuff, for example a exercise. Should it be in a dialog or in a window to be "maemo-style"00:08
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jaemLullen, I've seen both, but your design might make difference, too.00:10
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:10
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jaeme.g. if it's a simple textbox + "Add" button, putting it in a dialog might be inefficient00:10
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jaemThat's just my personal opinion, completely aside from any HIG00:10
lcukLullen, if you press an add button to create the new ite, yes it should be in a dialog afaik00:11
lcukbut it all depends on what else you want there and how the rest of the flow goes00:11
kenya888Hi, this is kenya888, the first time to join this irc channel :-)00:11
lcukhiya kenya888 \o00:12
pupnikthe camera app is a nice example of how UI specifications can be a poor fit for a specialized app00:12
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lcukpupnik, indeed, sometimes things have to exist in a different orientation00:12
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SpeedEvilpupnik: Indeed.00:13
kenya888I have a question about extras-devel autobuilder.00:13
SpeedEvilpupnik: I just had a bug against that WONTFIXed.00:13
lcukSpeedEvil, #?00:13
SpeedEvilpupnik: For example - I'm about to go out on a trip. I want to turn on geotagging. I don't want to take pictures now. Can't do it without opening the shutter.00:13
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lcukkenya888, ask away :) we will try to help if possible00:14
povbotBug 10265: Camera settings not available without opening shutter.00:14
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kenya888luck, thank you :-)00:14
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kenya888I have posted my src package to extras-devel autobuilder with ssh, but it remain being queue now... I'd like to delete it from queue. What should I do?00:15
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kenya888It is "ibus" Input Method software.00:16
MohammadAG51ping X-Fade00:16
lcukSpeedEvil, its not like its non obvious, it does have a massive thing indicating what to do00:16
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SpeedEvillcuk: Indeed.00:16
kenya888you can see it on Maemo Extras Assistant top page, right side of it.00:16
lcukkenya888, how long has it been on the queue?00:16
SpeedEvillcuk: However, simply because it's got a massive dialog doesn't make it right. It makes the workaround obvious.00:17
kenya888luck, about 7 days, submitted on 11 Jun.00:17
nextimewow, vodafone in italy with the summer card promotion is a very good thing for n900 users here00:17
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kenya888lcuk, sory typo of your name :-(00:18
nextimefor 5 euro/month, you get a flat hsdpa connection with no filters for 1 euro for every day of effective usage00:18
lcukkenya888, gimme the link to the page where its stuck00:18
nextimeso, if you get connected 24h 7/7, with 35 euro/month you have a real flat connection00:18
SpeedEvilnextime: I have doubts.00:19
SpeedEvilnextime: Is there no 'We reserve the right to protect the network...' clause?00:19
kenya888lcuk... sorry again :-(00:19
lcukkenya888, try again, thats page not found :p00:19
nextimeSpeedEvil : yes, of course, but in italy those things aren't applied00:19
nextimeyou get limited only if you do more that let me say a lot of gigs of traffic in one month00:20
nextimebut a with a lot i mean... really a lot00:20
SpeedEvilnextime: 'more than a lot' is not 24*700:21
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SpeedEvil(I have two rather broken network connections)00:22
kenya888lcuk, How about this? >
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lcukkenya888, yeah i see the packages in
lcukbut its not sat on the RHS of the screen00:23
pupnikthis is some really fun public pranking:
lcuki even see where it was built00:23
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kenya888lcuk, yes it is. but it isn't the latest. The latest one I'd like to build is 1.3.4-2maemo4. not maemo3.00:24
MohammadAG51change the changelog number00:25
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kenya888you can see it remain being on the queue form my link >
lcukkenya888, MohammadAG51 is right, you havent submitted a later one?00:25
alteregoJust need two more ..00:26
lcuk.. even00:26
MohammadAG51alterego, I want a countdown status updater, 10 minutes ago00:26
nextimeSpeedEvil : it is 24/700:26
MohammadAG51it needs to countdown till 1:30 UTC+3 time00:27
nextimewith a limit on the total traffic00:27
nextimebut it is a limit that you can reach just if you download 3 film in HD every day00:27
MohammadAG51alterego, oh and make it countdown in light years00:27
nextimeand it isn't a thing i will do from my phone00:27
lcukkenya888, ok i see your issue00:27
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lcuki dont see how00:28
lcukbut i see it00:28
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kenya888MohammadAG51, lcuk, thanks for you advice. but I have update my changelog to new version...00:29
MohammadAG51lcuk, sees your issue00:29
lcukwell aall the build information is working on 1.3.4-2maemo3 apart from somewhere a sneaky 1.3.4-2maemo4 has gotten onto place :S00:29
kenya888lcuk, thanks, and sorry for my poor English.00:29
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lcuktheres not even a cauldron build logged for the later version00:30
ecksunIs it possible to let my application be notified every time a calendar event is happening?00:30
MohammadAG51reupload it i guess00:30
ptljacekowski: hey man, what about your repository for chromium? Do you still have it?00:31
lcukkenya888, on irc, nobody speaks any particular language \o nice to see you hacking on maemo and hope it gets sorted00:32
ZogGhey \o/00:33
SpeedEvilI speak english, and fluent gibberish.00:33
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kenya888hahaha, thanks all:-)00:33
ZogGSpeedEvil, my kunfu-gibberish is stronger than your00:33
DrIDKhi! I m using qt4 on maemo5. How and where can I find a repertory to stock  my application data?00:34
lcukyou can stock it where you like00:34
ZogGDrIDK do you want ot up your application you mean?00:34
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ZogGMohammadAG, reposetory00:34
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kenya888MohammadAG51, I have uploaded newer src package 1.3.4-2maemo5, but no build action have been started... so I'd like delete queue...00:35
jaemDrIDK, Do you mean a packaged build of your application, or data of some sort for your application?00:35
DrIDKZogG: my application dowloads some file... I want to keep them somewhere00:35
MohammadAG51kenya888, reupload it00:35
jaemDrIDK, Oh... you'd either need to pay for somewhere to host it, or ask a friend who has some space.00:35
alteregoHahah, ysss' post on that "Simple stuff iphone should do and N900 does" thread was priceless.00:35
jaemWhat is the file in question?00:35
alteregoI lol'd hard.00:35
ZogGDrIDK, what kind of file? and why does it needs it?00:35
MohammadAG51i can ssh and kill xchat00:35
MohammadAG51alterego, link00:35
DrIDKjaem: ZogG : For example, my application dowload pictures logo.. I want to keep them00:35
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ZogGalterego, was there "to make me coffee" ?00:36
kenya888MohammadAG51, It must be the same version for upload?00:36
DrIDKjaem: ZogG and test : If ( picture exist , don't download it)00:36
ZogGDrIDK, you make a package00:36
lcukkenya888, upload a new later version, if that doesnt unblock your queue problem, mail garage admin00:36
MohammadAG51DrIDK, tinypic's enough for pics :)00:36
jaemDrIDK, What is the picture of?  Is it a graphic for the application?00:36
ZogGDrIDK, if it's app included - make a package of all the stuff you need and up it to repo, otherwise you can't host these kind of files on repos, it's stupid00:37
ZogGand it's garbage =)00:37
kenya888lcuk,  OK, I'll try it:-)00:37
DrIDKZogG: avatar picture for example00:37
jaemDrIDK, to put it a bit less bluntly, if it goes with the app, ship it with the app.00:37
ZogGbut if you need your app to donload pictures, i think you shoul find separete host00:38
jaemDrIDK, the user's avatar?00:38
DrIDKjaem: yes00:38
kenya888thanks all, see you:-)00:38
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jaemDrIDK, Ah, so you need for them to able to download their avatar from... somewhere?00:38
ZogGDrIDK, use it from local files00:38
jaem...and then store it for future use?00:38
DrIDKZogG: in KDE, we have this : KStandardDirs::locate("apps)  => it return  /home/user/.kde4/application/data ...00:38
ZogGDrIDK, or you can intagrate the app with yfrog or other picture host00:38
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SpeedEvilThere are apps with dozens of megabytes of stuff in extras-devel00:39
SpeedEvil'jammo' ?00:39
ZogGDrIDK, i think it's inda same here, the question is how you get picture there =)00:39
jaemDrIDK, This should be useful:
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DrIDKjaem: AHhh!! Thx00:39
jaemSpeedEvil, DrIDK is asking about storing user-retrieved content, I believe00:39
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SpeedEvilMissed that.00:39
* ZogG is sa00:40
* ZogG is sad00:40
jaemDrIDK, Use the appropriate enum value, grab the path with QDesktopServices::storageLocation(), and save it there.00:40
* MohammadAG51 stabs ZogG 00:40
* ZogG dies00:40
* jaem is sa00:40
* jaem is sad00:40
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ZogGthere si so many noise about this meego, i start to hate it00:42
ZogG* zap has quit, exactly when site is timeouts for me00:43
lcukhate is a strange term :)00:43
* lcuk rather likes what it will allow if it all works00:43
SpeedEvillinaro looks interesting too.00:43
MohammadAG513D games on the PS Store for anyone with a PS3 and a 3D display00:44
lcukgames? for the ps3?00:44
MohammadAG51lcuk, the PS3 rocks :)00:45
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MohammadAG51you'd like it if you had one00:45
lcuknot really, they removed linux from it00:45
ZogGlcuk, do you want MohammadAG's ?00:45
MohammadAG51it was limited anyways00:45
lcukthe chi inside ps3 is interesting00:45
MohammadAG51i know :(00:45
ZogGMohammadAG is playing the terrorist games =))))))00:46
MohammadAG51but RSX access was disabled00:46
MohammadAG51so no hardware graphics access00:46
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MohammadAG51ZogG, i AM a terrorist00:46
ZogGi think n900 is cooler and stronger than ps300:46
MohammadAG51you're an idiot then :P00:46
ZogGi want new MK in 3D and HD on N90000:46
lcukps3 doesnt play on bus00:46
lcukor in car really00:46
lcukor on toilet00:46
ZogGlcuk, in car you drive =)00:47
lcukwithout special config00:47
MohammadAG51i tried the toilet00:47
lcukZogG, theres more than one seat in a car for a reason00:47
ZogGlcuk, it does actually, as you have wireless joypad00:47
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ZogGlcuk, i don't see any reason, it's lies =)00:47
lcukwell yeah00:47
ZogGMohammadAG51 anyway i would like to have new MK00:47
lcuki once played wii baseball from the kitchen00:47
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MohammadAG51sorry, only AK-47s here00:48
ZogGMohammadAG, and starwars force unleashed 2 trailer looks badass00:48
lcukstar wars lego kicks ass00:48
* lcuk has it for wii00:48
MohammadAG51lcuk, see the PS move trailer00:48
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lcukphotoshop movie?00:48
MohammadAG51move, not movie00:48
ZogGthat dildo with the lamp attached?00:49
ZogGit looks failure00:49
ZogGthey should make it as gloves00:49
MohammadAG51says the guy who says the N900 is more powerful than an N90000:49
MohammadAG51PS3* lol00:49
lcukMohammadAG51, it is00:49
lcukcan your ps3 make phone calls?00:49
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ZogGMohammadAG, my N900 is more powerfull than yours00:49
lcukwithout looking like a dork00:50
ZogGMohammadAG, liar00:50
lcukside talking to the extreme!00:50
MohammadAG51lcuk, it can target a missile in realtime00:50
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ZogGlucky me, you don't knwo where i live00:50
lcukMohammadAG51, thats all well and good, i can fly a helicopter00:50
MohammadAG51i could nuke IL, you live there :P00:51
SpeedEvil ?00:51
MohammadAG51lcuk, and I'm the queen of england00:51
lcukactually MohammadAG51 i can, ive got an rc one :P00:51
ZogGMohammadAG, i hope you do so, so i wouldn't be stuck with N900 anymore =)00:51
jacekowskiptl: yeah, i just have to set it up00:51
jacekowskiptl: and i don't have time for it at the moment00:51
MohammadAG51damn headache00:51
ZogGMohammadAG51, is it that bad days in a month time for you, darling?00:52
MohammadAG51what's on the left side of the cerebrum?00:52
ZogGMohammadAG51 playing good in infamous is much harder than bad =(00:53
MohammadAG51i know :)00:54
ZogGi'm playing the good guy00:54
ZogGas i am00:54
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ZogGok i'm not00:57
ZogGyou got me00:57
ZogGanyway i'm starting to hate quil answers @ TMO00:57
ZogGthose are pointless00:57
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ZogGit has no info and only makes you angry00:57
ZogGhe never aswer straight00:57
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pupniki disagree00:58
ZogGonly those parts he wants and he makes it in such style so the answer is not connected and pointless00:58
SpeedEvilAny particlar example?00:58
ZogGSpeedEvil last thread about maemo misleading00:58
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ZogGhe talks in general and never specific00:59
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ZogGi don't blame him  -as it's his job, but he is only one link to Nokia as we had (as i see it)01:00
* SpeedEvil is rewatching babylon 5.01:00
ZogGand probably he can't tell everything as well as say something that would make Nokia looks bad01:00
SpeedEvil'Last best hope for peace'01:00
ZogGSpeedEvil, TV show?01:00
SpeedEvilZogG: yes.01:00
* ZogG found out that there PopEye movie01:00
ZogGthe movie with real actors01:00
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ZogGcrashanddie, \o/01:01
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ZogGcrashanddie greetings, outospace stranger01:01
crashanddiegreetings, earthling01:02
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ZogGMohammadAG51 finished school?01:04
ZogGand why do you add those 51? are you DocScrutinizer's son?01:04
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DocScrutinizeryes, adoptec01:09
DocScrutinizerand he asked for using the 51 :-D01:09
ZogGit should be 4201:10
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DocScrutinizernah that's joerg4201:10
ZogG▄██████████████▄▐█▄▄▄▄█▌ ██████▌▄▌▄▐▐▌███▌▀▀██▀▀ ████▄█▌▄▌▄▐▐▌▀███▄▄█▌01:11
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*** DocScrutinizer is now known as joerg4201:11
ZogG▄██████████████▄▐█▄▄▄▄█▌ ██████▌▄▌▄▐▐▌███▌▀▀██▀▀ ████▄█▌▄▌▄▐▐▌▀███▄▄█▌01:11
ZogG4 minutes ago · Unlike ·  1 person01:11
ZogGwrong channel01:11
ZogGfor f word01:11
ZogGand spam01:11
ZogGnevermind - i thought it was other channel01:12
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ZogGjoerg42, i think you should kick me at least (but srsly i;m sorry)01:13
joerg42CTCP version wasn't offensive enough? :-P01:14
ZogGare your viruses now in my computer?01:14
joerg42always been01:15
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ZogGit had to be and huge whale with FAIL on it, i succedded to make it proper looking on IRC but it's not that channel to  post it =)))01:15
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ZogGi thought i'm on one flood russian chan so i can do it =)))01:16
DocScrutinizer51how'd ya know you aren't?01:16
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pupnik_ZogG: what on earth is that supposed to be?01:18
ZogGpupnik_ huge whale with fail on side01:19
pupnik_failwhale? :) nice01:19
pupnik_channel #failwhale created01:20
ZogGpupnik_, you got it in PM =)))01:20
MohammadAG51mafw stutters a lot today01:21
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alteregoEvery time I upload a new version of an application and promote it to testing, it has to go through the whole voting crap again right?01:26
MohammadAG51(that means yes)01:26
alteregoThis is fucking ridiculous01:26
GAN900Not having internet for the machine that sorts your email makes for a hectic inbox in Modest.01:26
DrIDKI have QEvent... How do I convert it to QMouseEvent01:26
MohammadAG51OI, watch your fucking language01:26
ZogGalterego one hand it is but other hand it stop people of crappy apps01:26
ZogGovi store si the place for crappy apps =)01:27
alteregoSo, I develop an application, then I have to spend a couple of weeks begging people to help me promote it, great development cycle :(01:27
GAN900alterego, we're considering having different criteria for minor revisions.01:27
pupnik_get 10 friends alterego  :)01:27
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ZogGpupnik_, =)))))))01:27
GAN900alterego, get it to Extras, then don't worry about it for a while.01:27
MohammadAG51that's what I did :&01:27
GAN900The point is to prevent untested or rushed stuff from hitting users.01:27
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alteregopupnik_: all my friends have "forgotten" their passwordsd ..01:28
GAN900So, yes, the process takes a little while.01:28
MohammadAG51my app stayed 30+ days01:28
alteregoCan't we put forward weighted karma for the packages?01:28
GAN900We're also working on getting more people for testing.01:28
GAN900Super Testers, etc.01:28
alteregoWe don't need more people, we need to value those that have prooved to be good testers01:28
GAN900That's the point of Super Testers, yes.01:29
ZogGalterego facebook it or twitter it =)01:29
alteregoSo, erm, super testers, who are they then?01:29
ZogGalterego they are common people like you and me, they don't need any respect or money, they just do their job.... watch this summer in the theaters - SUPER TESTERS =)01:30
jaemmeh... the booming "COMING THIS SUMMER..." thing doesn't work quite so well over a text medium, sad to say...01:31
ZogGalterego anyway you can go to community section on TMO and post everything you think would be usefull on "[brainstorm 2010] package" or other thread with this tag that suits01:32
ZogGjaem, you just didn't see the trailer01:32
jaemZogG, can you stream it over telnet for me?01:32
ZogGit's montage with changig picts and the voice is so calm and quite so it make contrast01:33
tripzerois "profiled" one of those closed blobs?01:34
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ZogGtripzero "profiled" ?01:35
tripzeroon dbus it is
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ZogGtripzero you mean phone calls profiles, like silent and so on?01:43
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DocScrutinizer2who knows01:46
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* ZogG charges DocScrutinizer2 to 5101:49
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tripzeroZogG, yes, that's what profiled is supposed to track01:53
ZogGDocScrutinizer, are you usb mounted now?01:53
tripzerois it open?01:53
ZogGtripzero, not sure, but it's hard to say what you mean by profile. anyway you should check profileX app - it adds more profiles01:53
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flailingmonkeytripzero: i'd just browse the gitoreous site02:03
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alteregoGod "Goodbye to Maemo" should be renamed "Another iPhone argument"02:29
DassuIm seriously full of this ishit02:29
* SpeedEvil likes some apple products.02:30
SpeedEvilFor example, sauce.02:30
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lcukarent there same sorts of arguments on desktop linux distro sites02:30
Dassulike this one guy was like pointing out bad points about N900. "stulys gets lost too easily" I was lik wtf dude..02:31
SpeedEvilDassu: That is an annoyance - they should have thrown another couple in the box.02:31
* pupnik suggests a spare stylus for 900 successor02:31
Dassuand same goes with iphone "Im using these apps daily: (insert 20 app list here)"02:31
SpeedEvilIt literally costs nokia around 2 or 3 cents.02:31
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DassuSpeedEvil: It has a good holder and it is because of the users own caresless that that those get lost02:33
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SpeedEvilCarelessness - sure.02:34
lcukDassu, no argument but everyone loses styluses02:34
SpeedEvilI can see the argument for not having a stylus sensor.02:34
SpeedEvilThat actually costs maybe $.20 or so.02:34
SpeedEvilA couple of extra styluses is actually lots cheaper.02:34
DassuI would hate to have useless extra stuff02:35
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Dassuseriously people place things on random locations and thats why they get lost. My stulys is always either in the holder or in my hands02:36
flailingmonkeyif you put extras in the box, you'd lose them before the one in the N90002:38
flailingmonkeyhappens all the time, because they have nowhere to go02:38
lcuknot at all, i have spare stylus for my fujitsu loox still in its place in its box02:38
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lcukevening wazd02:39
flailingmonkeylcuk is a packrat02:40
SpeedEvilI have a japanese stylus for my n900.02:40
SpeedEvilWell - japanese maple.02:40
SpeedEvilI whittled it.02:40
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lcuki was thinking then that it would be a little shorter than a usual stylus02:41
alteregoI still have the primary and spare stylus' for my Nokia 770, 800 and 81002:41
flailingmonkeydid you put the notch in so that it clicks into the N900?02:41
alteregoI was quite dissapointed however when I didn't get a spare with the N90002:41
lcuki didnt get a box02:42
alteregoEven though my stylus' loss ratio is 0% :)02:42
flailingmonkeyi forget I'm talking to people that spend a significant amount of their time on IRC talking about linux devices :P02:42
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pupnikstylus slot discriminates against left-handed people :/02:43
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lcukstylus doubles as a battery popping tool02:43
lcukand handy thing to poke missus with when she says something annoying :D02:43
lcuktho she gets me back02:43
MohammadAG51i just slam the device into my hand02:43
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lcukMohammadAG51, for the cover02:43
lcuki have no fingernails02:43
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lcukso i just jam the stylus into the thumb notch02:44
lcukand popppp02:44
ZogGhave you lost it?02:44
lcukmy missus?02:44
lcukor finger nail02:44
ZogGvirginity =)02:44
ZogGi mean sylus02:44
MohammadAG51he said it, not her02:44
MohammadAG51i never lose my stylii02:45
MohammadAG51lcuk, no fingernails?02:45
lcukive lost them over time02:45
lcukbut they turn up02:45
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lcuknote, that is after real stitches, its not pretty but theres other fingers on show lol
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alteregolcuk: you lose your fingers over time? IS that your hand?!02:49
vldcnstI did not need to see that...02:49
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lcukalterego, yes its my hand02:57
lcukvldcnst, i didnt post it without a warning02:57
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SpeedEvilWhy do you lose your fingernails?03:00
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lcukSpeedEvil, a long tale ;)03:08
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yigalI just made the purchase for an n900 and I feel good about it04:08
* SpeedEvil has only one regret - that they diddn't put more than one stylus in th ebox.04:08
SpeedEvilOh - IMO - you need to put a screen protector on right away.04:09
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SpeedEvilOthers disagree.04:09
yigalty SpeedE I'm pretty careful, but ...04:09
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yigalI have an n800 in pretty good working order, no scratches04:10
SpeedEvilI was gardening with mine - using it to listen to mp3 - and managed to put seccaterurs in wrong pocket, and bend down and up a couple of hundred times.04:10
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SpeedEvilProtector was almost shredded.04:10
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yigalI have 10 more months w/t-mobile I figure purchasing an n900 is a good deal for that time04:12
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pupnikcarrying n900 around physical-work-environments can shorten lifespan significantly04:12
SpeedEvilpupnik: I'm pondering making a proper case for it.04:13
SpeedEvilpupnik: As in nice thick slab of plastic on the front, ...04:13
yigalha, there is the metal one at Amazon?04:13
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SpeedEvilpupnik: Currently wishing that you could get cheap bluetooth modules so I could do a touchscreen on it04:14
SpeedEvilI'd like a way so I can have it mostly water-resistant while watching videos, for example.04:15
SpeedEvilAlso probably with an extra battery.04:15
pupnikSpeedEvil: i think you and me are the only n900 owners who get hands dirty04:15
pupniknice idea using logs to make that wall btw04:15
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yigalpupnik: I was doing pretty much a "blue color" job for a month and a half up until now04:16
yigalbuilding a house04:16
yigalwith me hands04:16
yigalgood stuff04:17
SpeedEvilMe up ladder with n900 - chainsawing stuff.04:19
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SpeedEvilAnd hedgetrimming, ...04:19
SpeedEvilChainsaw up ladder is fun.04:19
pupnikgood stuff yigal -- need to be able to do things besides modify patterns on screen ;)04:19
yigalexactly, lol04:20
SpeedEvilGood for excersize too.04:20
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yigalmuch better than a gym, makes me feel good04:21
SpeedEvilI find it really difficult to excersize for the sake of it.04:21
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SpeedEvilActually find it easier to diet.04:21
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yigalme too, I like agriculture, home building, a making stuff with my hands04:22
yigalthat's some detailed stuff04:24
yigalsorry I've already imbibed a bottle of wine04:24
yigalnot so good with figures at present04:24
SpeedEvilI've wondered about a nice food/recipie/planning application.04:24
SpeedEvilIt's a lot of work.04:24
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yigalI can't wait to use gnuplot on my new n90004:25
SpeedEvilIdeally, it would be able to scan barcodes of stuff in cupoards, track levels, and suggest what meals you can make with them based on some recipie reviews site.04:25
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SpeedEvilThere was a problem with it for a while04:25
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yigalI would settle on it being used as a laser level04:25
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* SpeedEvil tries a reinstall04:26
SpeedEvilThe accel is moderately inaccurate.04:26
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yigalwell I'm too drunk to do too much, later Speed etc. I'll be a proud owner in a couple days, this is awsome.  Power to freedom!!04:32
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SpeedEvilHmm. 419 quid@ebuyer04:33
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SpeedEvilThere needs to be another component to karma - tracking good reviews on shopping sites :)04:35
PelapHey guys. I have a 332 MB big file called  "home/user/.sharing/outbox/attachment-IGC34U"   How the * do I delete it ?04:36
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Arkenoipelap: do you have "sharing" icon active in the status bar?04:39
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PelapNot now.. What does it look like exactly ?04:40
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pupnikthree dots connected by two lines in this orientation <04:41
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Pelapah yes. No I don't04:42
PelapI thought it was email related, but those folders are empty..04:43
pupnikpossibly a flickr upload?04:43
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pupnikmaybe you accidentally hit share on a video clip04:44
PelapTrue.. but how do i go about rectifying it ?04:45
pavloHas anybody had the problem on a n900 with the mediaplayer getting stuck and not playing anything? I didn't install anything new. It just stopped playing anything one morning.04:46
pupnikPelap: i would move the file to /media/mmc1 and see what breaks04:47
PelapThat would be via xterm ? I'm not great at linux commands  :)04:48
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pupniksee, normally if there is something in queue waiting to be shared, you will see the sharing icon04:48
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Pelapyes. Cause i use Flickt, but there's no icon and this have been there for weeks now..04:50
pupnikPelap: that's good to know.  Then i think you could be safe just moving it (mv) or deleting it (rm)04:50
Arkenoiso i guess you may probably safely delete it04:50
PelapOkay, so it type in the full filename in xterm combined with rm.04:53
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SpeedEvilpavlo: it's been reported, I've hit it once, when playing corrupt videos. The infrastructure gets wedged.04:55
pavloSpeedEvil: Any way to rectify it? Like reinstalling a package?04:56
pavloTried that many times04:56
SpeedEvilSorry - misunderstood.04:57
pavloIt's been busted a couple of days now04:57
SpeedEvilpavlo: Do you mean it can't find files?04:57
pavloNope it can find my files04:57
SpeedEvilOr that it says 'unsupported file'04:57
pavloNo, I click to play04:57
pavloThe "now playing" screen comes up04:57
pavloBut nothing happens04:57
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SpeedEvilThat's odd.04:57
SpeedEvilSorry - I have no worthwhile suggestions - other than backup and reflash04:58
pavloI never flashed in the first place :-(04:58
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PelapIt's gone! :)  Thanks for helping out04:58
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pavloHmmm now when I try to change the volume on the non-playing song, the cover art shows up and I get "Unable to perform operation"05:01
pavloThat's nice...05:01
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pavloTried reinstalling "mediaplayer" package05:16
pavloThat didn't help05:16
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pupnik   i'm amazed what a big player RIM still seems to be05:28
SpeedEvilLots of jobs with them.05:29
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ds3J2ME isn't too horrible on the N900!05:41
pavloSpeedEvil: Strange! I uninstalled and reinstalled decoders-support. That seemed to fix it05:41
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pavloSpeedEvil: I can now listen to Joe the Plumbers audiobook!!! Score!05:42
pigeonds3: using microemulator?05:47
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SpeedEvilPavlov: odd.05:55
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ds3pigeon: yeah06:01
ds3since garnet is broken at the moment, I got a map viewer running via J2ME06:01
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pupnikds3: i find your usage choices curious06:04
pupnikmap viewer... ever tried osm2go?06:04
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ds3pupnik: yeah... that was painfully slow06:05
pupnikto look at maps and track your position>?06:05
ds3and I already have Maemo Mapper installed; I want something a bit more "native" for browsing the google map database06:05
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ds3native as in native to GMM06:06
pupnikwhat is GMM?06:06
ds3I just need to find out if I can search for PoI's within that J2ME app06:06
ds3GMM == Google Maps Mobile06:06
ds3the PoI stuff don't seem to work for me with Maemo mapper06:07
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DocScrutinizerthough arfarf would more sound like it07:18
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* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass07:19
infobotSince Sun Jun 13 08:51:39 2010, there have been 30 modifications, 248 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 172 commands.  I have been awake for 4d 19h 27m 56s this session, and currently reference 117092 factoids.  I'm using about 21940 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 10868.63/457.95 child 0.17/0.0507:19
DocScrutinizerpretty laggy for so little to do07:21
DocScrutinizerI mean, 248 Q and 172 cmd in what, 5 days?07:21
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*** DocScrutinizer is now known as DocScrutinizer207:24
* DocScrutinizer2 waves07:24
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shorteris there a limited amount of applets that can show in the alarm/clock/profile menu?07:29
shorterI had flashlight installed, and it disappeared07:30
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* b-man passes out and falls straight on his face07:31
DocScrutinizerZyXEL P660 -PAHH! what a rap. 5 min fast per day, though NTP is configured07:31
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DocScrutinizerCrap even07:32
DocScrutinizerswitching down the WAN for satisfying the provider's 24h max policy tears down all the NAT sessions, so despite this is a fixed IP none of my services like ssh or SIP connects continues to work07:36
DocScrutinizerIt's incredible what you can do wrong in a simple NAT router, and how ZyXEL managed to find and hit every oportunity to fail07:37
DocScrutinizerobviously they never heard about NAT-BEHAVE RFC at ZyXEL07:38
DocScrutinizerin the 90ies ZyXEL was the best you can get :-(07:40
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infobotthanks, DocScrutinizer07:41
infobotI'm on 106 channels: #debian/922, #maemo/505, #meego/381, #kde/326, #asterisk/251, #gsoc/227, #openmoko/163, #wowace/143, #oe/141, #wowuidev/132, #webos-internals/116, #wowhead/116, #sc2mapster/96, #htc-linux/95, #openmoko-cdevel/95, #utah/61, #edev/60, #tomcat/60, #asterisk-dev/58, #bzflag/56, #curseforge/47, #wowwiki/47, #slug/44, #uclibc/42, #gllug/35, #elinux/35, #utos/32, #uphpu/32, #/29, #norganna/27, #elive/23, #brlcad/23, #storm/21, ...07:43
infoboti've cached 4898 users, 3558 unique users, distributed over 106 channels.07:43
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DocScrutinizerheh, we're pos#2 after #debian07:43
b-manDocScrutinizer: btw, MohammadAG told me that you would be ticked if i re-wrote the overclock scripts in c and gave it a nice Qt-based GUI xDDDD07:44
DocScrutinizerand #meego > #kde, lol07:44
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DocScrutinizernah, I'd just shoot you to pluto :-(07:45
DocScrutinizerit's hard to believe how many noobs don't get a single word of all the warnings attached to all the OC info and install pkgs07:47
DocScrutinizerThanks Intel for giving OC the aura of leetness07:47
b-mani think 90% mostly skim over all the warnings lol07:49
DocScrutinizerand then they absolutely categorically refuse to accept it *could* do any harm - "duh, my desktop PC is OC'd since 2007, dude! no problems :-))))"07:49
b-manlol yup07:50
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b-mani'll bet that you'll start seeing cases of people frying their devices by year's end07:52
b-manbecause they keep trying to push their devices past 1Ghz07:52
DocScrutinizeryou'll never know, as they'll blame "the crappy apps in extras, segfaulting like mad" - not aware they fried the instruction decoder or pipeline or whatever07:53
* b-man needs sleep -_-07:55
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DocScrutinizer"booohooo, my N900 doesn't play any more vids. It used to work like a charm on 720p, and now: just black. I re-installed mplayer 57 times, no luck. HEEEELP! PLZ!"07:56
arachnistspeaking of OC, in the old days cpus were much more overclockable without extreme measures07:56
microlithnot really07:56
arachnistlike the Celeron 300MHz, A series07:56
arachnistor the athlon-xp 2500+07:56
DocScrutinizerZ80-4MHz, I seem to remember I operated it @ 1207:57
microlithiirc, 300a were probably just p3s that didn't make the cut in terms of cache07:57
* b-man passes out - c ya guys tomorrow :)07:57
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konfooz80 eh, in what system07:58
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DocScrutinizerwell, it was based on
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konfoogalaxy attack, awesome08:04
konfooback in the day i had a friend with a sinclair z80, he couldnt afford any games, so i cobbled together space invaders for him08:05
konfooi think we ran out of ram though (no highscores)08:05
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DocScrutinizeryeah, RAM was a bit of a nuisance, until I extended it to 128k cmos with proper buffering by a NiCad cell ;-D08:16
DocScrutinizeron Nascom-I08:16
DocScrutinizerlater, when ZX81 became affordable, I had a 16k ram expansion always08:17
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DocScrutinizeryeeha, friggin PA oon my laptop has a lag of ~30min for the desktop event sounds :-P08:20
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DocScrutinizerwell, I've seen lags of 2..3 days XP08:21
DocScrutinizer~lart pulse audio for being utter crap08:22
* infobot readies the nuke launcher and fires some rounds at pulse audio for being utter crap08:22
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DocScrutinizer(128k) actually 4k were never used, as that was the 2k ROM area which was 'shared' to write to a mirrored addr page in both banks08:33
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Dassuanybody knows if qtnx is suppose to work with nomachine's nxserver or just with the freenx ?08:42
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saddamaint nobody here08:53
Appiaherr what08:53
saddamwhy so quiet08:54
Appiahwell in my timezone it's soon 8am08:54
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saddamyou in europe08:54
saddami kno08:55
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saddamwhos playin in world cup today?08:57
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saddamaint nobody kno?08:59
DocScrutinizerdon't remind me it's 8'o09:00
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threshsaddam: i suppose google knows09:00
saddamwhy have IRC if every damn answer is on google?09:01
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DocScrutinizer/join #worldcup !09:02
saddami kno....its off topic here09:02
saddamso.....any word on mego on n900???09:03
DocScrutinizer/join #meego :-P09:03
MohammadAG51/join 009:03
saddamhaha yer funny09:04
DocScrutinizermoo mo09:04
MohammadAG51(seriously, don't do that)09:04
MohammadAG51moo DocScrutinizer09:04
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saddami read that topic it dont answer my question09:05
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Appiahwhat was the question .. any word?09:06
Appiahyes there are words on meego on n90009:06
Appiahand that's the link09:07
Appiahwith the word09:07
Appiahbut there is another word.. I think everyone heard about it..09:07
Appiahhave you saddam ?09:07
saddamok...i hope it happens dont wanna be stuck with old os09:07
AppiahA-well-a everybody's heard about the bird09:08
saddamda hell u talkin bout?09:08
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MohammadAG51he's a bit high, ignore him09:08
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MohammadAG51jk :)09:09
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saddamovi store still sucking... no apps for n90009:10
Milo-there  are some09:12
Milo-but they are buggy09:12
saddamyeah....where can i download crack of the navigation app? forget the name now09:14
luke-jrsaddam: you're obviously a Windows luser09:14
luke-jrone thing the free software community tends to have in common is this: we take copyright infringement seriously09:15
dotblankbut we hate the DMCA09:15
saddamon symbian all yous do is download cracks....nobody ever pay for nothing.....what bout maemo?09:16
luke-jrand what you just did is against FreeNode's policies and you could be K-lined for it09:16
dotblanksaddam, there is nothing to crack09:16
luke-jrsaddam: 'cracks' are copyright infringement, illegal, and nothing we will support09:16
saddamok but i thought this was open community09:17
saddamnone this copyright bullshit09:17
MohammadAG51it is an open community09:17
luke-jrand the 'open community' is opposed to copyright infringement09:17
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Wolfieluke-jr: that's a harsh claim... they're frowned upon by the copyright owners, but i don't think cracks have anything to do with copyright09:17
luke-jr99% of open source is copyrighted09:17
dotblankits a legally open community09:18
nextimesaddam : the principle of the open community is to try to avoid copyrighted software, not so crack the copyrighted one09:18
luke-jrWolfie: cracks generally have no purpose other than copyright infringement09:18
MohammadAG51still, if there's good OSS, we wouldn't mind donating to the dev09:18
Wolfieluke-jr: true, but it doesn't still make them illegal09:18
luke-jrsaddam: also, don't confuse free software with gratis software09:18
luke-jrWolfie: DMCA09:18
saddami got it all wrong then09:18
Wolfieluke-jr: it's like putting all p2p traffic into the illegal bin09:18
gavinnextime: "copyrighted software" is not the term you want - as luke-jr said, pretty much all free software is copyrighted09:19
dotblankwell the DMCA prevents you from distributing apps that bypass an prevention mech.. like dvd playback09:19
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dotblanknot using it09:19
luke-jrsaddam: we support charging money for software, though often we don't09:19
saddamjust wanted to try the navigation app....ovi store dont have trial versions09:20
MohammadAG51tbh I prefer free apps and donating to the dev over paid apps09:20
Wolfiebesides, DMCA is nothing more than an US-specific impediment. I dont think it's fair to bring that up in a worldwide community09:20
MohammadAG51there is a trial for sygic09:20
Wolfiebut i'm afraid this will get off track, so i'll stop here09:20
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luke-jrMohammadAG51: I prefer free apps, whether I pay for them or not09:20
dotblankI bought sygic09:20
MohammadAG51I use google maps09:21
dotblankfree is good very good09:21
saddamwhen is voice coming to ovi maps on n900 ?09:21
dotblankNo idea09:21
luke-jrMohammadAG51: Google Maps isn't free09:22
saddamfucken bullshit even cheap nokias have free navigation but n900 no09:22
luke-jrsaddam: nonsense, there is no such thing as free navigation09:22
dotblankwe should get a bunch of devs to help make a turn by turn navigation software with voice instructions on open street map09:22
luke-jrdotblank: I agree. Who can fund it? :p09:22
MohammadAG51luke-jr, i barely use maps, IL doesn't need one09:22
saddamluke-jr: there is....what cha talkin bout09:23
dotblankI can donate my voice09:23
dotblankfor the stupid american voice09:23
luke-jrsaddam: you clearly have no idea what 'free' means09:23
nextimeWolfie : dmca is us only, i don't care about it. But cracking software is against not only dmca and laws, it is also unethic and unfair even if you are in a country with no copyright laws at all09:23
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saddammeans i download shit to my fone and i dont pay nothing. aint that what free means?09:24
Veggensaddam: no.09:24
luke-jrnextime: I disagree with your last statement. Standard copyright is in fact unethical. Bypassing it, if legal, is fine by me.09:24
dotblanksaddam, see my link09:24
luke-jrsaddam: no09:24
luke-jrsaddam: that's what gratis means09:24
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luke-jr'free' means what you can do with it is unrestricted09:25
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saddamfuck this gratis shit....aint it the same as free?09:25
luke-jrsaddam: even if you have to pay for it, software can still be free09:25
dotblankThe freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.09:25
luke-jrno, gratis is merely *free of charge*09:25
nextimeluke-jr : right, but infranging copyright is uniethical too. The right way is to use copyleft and respect it :)09:26
dotblankh264 right now is gratis09:26
luke-jr"free of charge"/"gratis" is not important09:26
luke-jrnextime: copyright infringement is only unethical because it is illegal (and it is immoral to break the law)09:26
gavinI don't agree that it is immoral to break the law09:26
dotblankh264 is dangerous because when its no longer free...09:27
luke-jrgavin: it is. get over it.09:27
gavinthere are some dumb laws :)09:27
saddami asked a simple question and i get lectured on some legal mumbo jumbo shit....i just want free shit on my fone, fuck the tecnical shit09:27
Veggenmmm. Copyright is a trade-off between the public and the publishers, really.09:27
nextimeluke-jr : so, in your opinion there is nothing wrong in infranging copyright in country where there is no copyright law?09:27
gavinI don't agree that it is *necessarily* immoral to break the law09:27
luke-jrsaddam: I hope you get sued.09:27
VeggenThat's something publishers today have forgotten, largely.09:27
luke-jrnextime: absolutely nothing wrong with it AFAIK09:27
dotblanksaddam, You sir are on FREENODE the center of "free software" irc communication09:27
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saddamfor what?09:27
luke-jrsaddam: for copyright infringement09:27
saddami aint infridged nothing09:28
luke-jrsaddam: you just seeked help in doing so09:28
Veggensaddam: Go somewhere else? Free software community in general don't care about pirating software.09:28
saddamok sorry09:28
luke-jrI find it highly probable you have done so in the past.09:28
nextimeluke-jr : my opinion is different. If we want respect for copyleft licenses, we need to respect also closed one, pushing the reasons to use only free one09:28
VeggenSince discovering free software/open source, I've hardly pirated anything the last 15 years.09:28
dotblankVeggen, same09:28
luke-jrnextime: my opinion is based on the immoral nature of copyright09:28
dotblankNo need nowadays09:28
luke-jrnextime: also known as usury in more ancient times09:29
XisdibikVeggen: do you like a good booty ?09:29
saddambut open software is often shit....the good stuff you gotta pay $$$ no?09:29
dotblankwell we all sorta know its kinda broken right now... but its still the law09:29
Xisdibiksaddam: thats not neccessarily true, and is open to personal opinion09:29
luke-jrsaddam: you can pay $$$ for open source09:29
threshtrolling friday trolling09:29
nextimeluke-jr : if usury can be translated in the manner i think, for me it is a very differentthing :)09:29
luke-jrsaddam: all good software is by prerequisite open :)09:30
dotblankluke-jr, +109:30
Xisdibikluke-jr: +.509:30
saddamopen often means bunch of tecno geeks putting shit together no?09:30
luke-jrnextime: usury is defined as charging for both the object, and the usage of the object; copyright does exactly that09:30
Xisdibiksaddam: no09:30
dotblanksaddam, um... sure... but google opened vp809:30
luke-jrsaddam: and "tecno geeks" are the experts09:30
dotblankand several other huge companies support it09:30
Xisdibikluke-jr: not all experts are techno geeks though luke-jr09:31
nextimesaddam : did you consider Sun or NASA a bunch of shit?09:31
luke-jrsaddam: while we mostly all have jobs, most of the proprietary software industry is full of morons who write crappy code09:31
nextimethey both produce a lot of open source software...09:31
Xisdibikluke-jr: example: microsoft? ;)09:31
saddamyeah and N800 users are still waitin for maemo09:31
luke-jrXisdibik: exactly09:31
luke-jrsaddam: Maemo is not open source09:31
dotblankEveryone has "their" propreitary system.. and everyone recreates the same thing09:31
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dotblankseems wastefull to me09:32
dotblankwhen $$$ is not a motivator good things happen09:32
saddami wont ask no more for cracks09:32
luke-jrdotblank: sometimes09:32
luke-jrwhen $$$ is not involved, people only write what fits their own needs09:32
luke-jr$$$ is needed if a non-programmer wants something unique09:33
Xisdibikluke-jr: simple, make someone need what you want ;)09:33
saddamlets change topic.....why is nokia not giving a fuck about n900?09:33
luke-jr$$$ also gives us more time to work on stuff09:33
Xisdibiksaddam: PR1.2 says otherwise09:33
luke-jrsaddam: because N900 is just a toy experiment to Nokia, I guess09:33
dotblankwell shall I change it to "primary" motivator09:33
saddamexperiment???? that aint fair09:34
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dotblankn900 is for the techno-geeks09:34
luke-jrsaddam: I'll agree whole-heartedly if you have issues with Nokia's marketting09:34
Xisdibikdotblank: im not a techno geek and i have one :)09:34
dotblankXisdibik, sure you are09:34
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dotblankMy definition of techno-geek is a glorious one09:35
Xisdibikdotblank: i sure am, and its still by far the best phone ive ever used09:35
saddami have n900 and its the best fuckin fone out there....but why no love????09:35
luke-jrit's not a phone09:35
XisdibikMobile Internet Device? :p09:35
dotblankpeople are too dumb to understand what "free" software really means09:35
luke-jrXisdibik: "Internet Tablet" is the term Nokia uses09:36
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luke-jr"handheld" is the general category I put it in09:36
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Xisdibikhandsheld would be my general category09:36
Xisdibiksince i typically use both hands ;)09:36
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luke-jrbut you can hold it in one :p09:36
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dotblankcan't wait for Meego09:36
luke-jrmaybe not USE it09:37
luke-jrbut HOLD it09:37
Xisdibiktesting right now09:37
saddamwhere is the dude that was gonna port freemantle to N800????09:37
Xisdibiknope definitely took both hands to lift09:37
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DocScrutinizermohammadAG-b: hola09:37
luke-jrXisdibik: I lift my N810 with one hand all the time09:37
Xisdibikjust teasin luke-jr09:37
luke-jrsaddam: never happening09:37
kenya888_Hi, again...09:37
Xisdibikluke-jr: i thought Mer was a real thing09:37
luke-jrXisdibik: it was. keyword: was09:38
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Xisdibiki see09:38
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nextimeXisdibik : blame meego!09:38
kenya888_plz let me know. Do you know how i can contact to debmaster, Mr. Jeremiah Foster?09:38
luke-jrMer wasn't Fremantle, though09:38
Xisdibiki thought it was an attempt at getting alot of fremantles stuff into the older tablets09:38
luke-jrit was an attempt to make a free software OS based on the open bits of Maemo09:39
luke-jrincluding supporting N8x009:39
XisdibikI see09:39
saddami find 1.2 slowed my n900 down a bit....yous too?09:39
dotblanknot really09:39
DocScrutinizer* mer is now known as meego09:39
dotblankMy n900 performs much better with pr1.209:39
dotblankI get better 3g reception which is odd09:40
luke-jrI find saddam slowed my #maemo down a bit... yous too?09:40
petterimine drops frames after 1.2, but works faster because of that09:40
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nextimeDocScrutinizer : uhmm is more precise to say "mer knoweledge is used in meego", cause meego is very different from mer, no?09:40
luke-jrMohammadAG51: identity crisis?09:40
saddamit was suppose to fix shit not slow down things.....get yer shit together nokia09:41
luke-jrsaddam: Nokia is (mostly) not here09:41
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: bouncer09:41
dotblanksaddam, Are you a troll?09:41
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saddami thought there were dudes here from nokia?09:41
luke-jrafaik just timeless_mbp, and he's idle09:41
* timeless_mbp looks around09:42
MohammadAG51there are others09:42
luke-jror not09:42
DocScrutinizermoo timeless_mbp09:42
* luke-jr highlights lcuk for the heck of it09:42
saddamhow bout that quigil guy?09:42
luke-jrI don't think Quim goes on IRC09:42
luke-jrnot often at least09:42
konfoowhat is it with the trolls.. the n900 seems to draw them like moths to the proverbial flame09:42
dotblankyea IRC is a madhouse09:43
MohammadAG51infobot, seen qgil09:43
Stskeepshe comes to the meego channels usually09:43
infobotqgil <> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 78d 10h 53m 41s ago, saying: 'ever'.09:43
Stskeepsor meetings09:43
luke-jrStskeeps: shh09:43
MohammadAG51Stskeeps, usually = 78d? :)09:43
saddamthey dont care about maemo or n90009:43
dotblankEveryone nows mailing lists are the serious buisness09:43
luke-jrsaddam: nope. get over it.09:43
konfoosaddam please. shut the hell up.09:44
konfooqgil is probably on another european vacation09:44
Xisdibikluke-jr + konfoo +109:44
saddamkonfoo: angry....are we?09:44
Xisdibiktired of you more like it saddam09:44
konfootired of dimwits09:44
StskeepsMohammadAG51: i think the key problem is that people are speaking to him as a employee and not a community member/person.. makes chat uncomfortable09:44
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MohammadAG51Stskeeps, I see09:45
luke-jrStskeeps: that's what aliases are for?09:45
timeless_mbpluke-jr: generally those don't last09:45
dotblankI wish people didn't tell me who worked for nokia09:45
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: you've tried, I see? XD09:45
MohammadAG51Stskeeps, so remind me again, you're not working at nokia?09:45
saddamif i remember he was full of shit....first said mego on n900 then changed his mind....09:45
timeless_mbpdotblank: then don't visit the
dotblankEveryone in here im sure has helped me out at least a dozen times09:45
luke-jrdotblank: I have?09:45
StskeepsMohammadAG51: i'm not an employee09:46
Xisdibikwhen did I help you dotblank ? :P09:46
dotblankluke-jr, yup09:46
timeless_mbpdotblank: you're thanking 400 people? :)09:46
luke-jrdotblank: even ChanServ?09:46
dotblankive been in this channel since December09:46
timeless_mbpvery appreciative of you, good attitude09:46
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luke-jrtimeless_mbp: 400? I see 50709:46
timeless_mbpluke-jr: oh, chanserv is helpful09:46
timeless_mbpluke-jr: i'm too lazy to read the right side of my window09:46
Xisdibik107 of them dont count luke-jr09:46
dotblankseriously I asked how to reset the tracker and BAM! in like 2 secs I got an answer09:47
luke-jrtrue, we can't thank saddam09:47
timeless_mbp… chanserv is very useful, especially when it adds moderation against flood attacks09:47
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MohammadAG51infobot, trackerrest09:47
timeless_mbp… or when it ops someone who then whacks a spammer09:47
MohammadAG51infobot, trackerreset09:47
infobotrumour has it, trackerreset is "tracker-processes --hard-reset" in Terminal09:47
dotblankor like how the ringtones are chached09:47
Xisdibikdotblank: generally my help comes from about 10-15 core people here09:47
timeless_mbpMohammadAG51: tel: ?09:47
saddamfunny when i came here they told me to google shit....that aint helpful09:47
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: never seen ChanServ do anything useful against flooding09:47
dotblanksuggestion on building packages09:47
dotblankporting apps09:47
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luke-jrsaddam: try Bing then09:47
Xisdibiktime, luke and sts are among thost09:47
konfoowow 508 people. i never did a /names to check until now09:47
MohammadAG51timeless_mbp, not now :)09:47
timeless_mbpok :)09:47
dotblankI asked for a port of VLC in here09:48
saddamyer funny09:48
DocScrutinizer[2010-06-17 20:34:40] [Notify] qgil ist online (
dotblankand I spent about 3 hours working with him building it over gtalk/jingle09:48
dotblankand he got it done09:48
dotblankthat is indeed awesome09:48
ds3GRRRRRRRRRR... the N900's battery charing setup blows chunks09:49
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luke-jrtimeless_mbp: happen to know any app that can do video chat between Mac and Linux?09:49
Xisdibikds3: how so?09:49
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timeless_mbpluke-jr: hrm09:49
timeless_mbpgoogle talk doesn't work?09:49
Xisdibikluke-jr: on the n900 or in general?09:49
kenya888_Sorry, again. plz let me know. Do you know how i can contact to debmaster, Mr. Jeremiah Foster?09:49
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Stskeepskenya888_: he left the job09:49
timeless_mbpluke-jr: in theory if your video camera is friendly09:49
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: Google Talk doesn't exist for Linux... and I don't think Mac either09:49
timeless_mbpand flash supports it09:49
luke-jrXisdibik: general09:49
timeless_mbpluke-jr: google talk is a flash based thing :)09:49
Xisdibikluke-jr: skype :P09:49
ds3that PoS can't boot at all if there is low battery or missing battery even with an AC adapter09:50
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: ... no flash09:50
kenya888_Stskeeps, Really? who is the debmaster now?09:50
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dotblankluke-jr, im google talk is a xmpp/jabber implementation soo... linux I knows works with it09:50
luke-jrno skype either -.-09:50
pigeonluke-jr: there's also oovoo09:50
Xisdibikluke-jr: why, skype exists in both09:50
konfoooovoo is a pile09:50
luke-jrdotblank: yes, but I don't know any Jingle+video implementations for either platform09:50
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luke-jrXisdibik: it's proprietary09:50
Xisdibikluke-jr: oh, you didnt say open ;P09:50
pigeonoh, then scratch oovoo too then.09:50
luke-jrXisdibik: that's a given when talking to me :)09:50
Xisdibikluke-jr: im not sure for MAC, but Ekiga?09:50
luke-jrI don't use proprietary software, period. :p09:51
dotblankEmpathy works with video chat09:51
dotblankon linux09:51
konfootin cans & string?09:51
Stskeepskenya888_: noone09:51
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luke-jrkonfoo: I don't have source for tin cans09:51
MohammadAG51i wanted to compile empathy but.... gtk is old on maemo09:51
dotblankI tested it liek yesterday09:51
MohammadAG51o/ frals_09:51
konfooluke: you will after you eat the baked beans09:51
dotblankgoogle talk works fine on the n90009:51
dotblankwhy is this an issue09:52
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dotblankwith video + jingle09:52
konfooi think the macintrash is the issue, no?09:52
kenya888_Stskeeps, oops... thanks. I'd like to contact autobuilder admin. who is proper person, do you know?09:52
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timeless_mbpso, there's X-Lite09:52
timeless_mbpand Blink/Zoipper for OS X09:52
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timeless_mbpif you're trying to do standard video protocols based on SIP09:53
timeless_mbpin theory this stuff can/should work09:53
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timeless_mbpbut the last time someone tried to demo it09:53
dotblankempathy works with sip09:53
timeless_mbpit failed09:53
* luke-jr ponders if Asterisk could handle video09:53
dotblankis there even a traditional video telephony network09:54
dotblanklike from carrier to carrier09:54
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dotblankwell that needs fixing09:54
konfoospeaking as a carrier - no09:54
konfooalthough, depends on what level of service you're providing as a 'carrier'09:55
luke-jrtimeless_mbp: any ideas for 1.2? :P09:55
timeless_mbpluke-jr: 1.2 of what?09:55
timeless_mbpi think you should upgrade to 1.4.x :)09:55
luke-jrtoo scared to XD09:55
luke-jrDigium broke 1.2 with 1.2.19 or so09:55
luke-jrso I have to stick to 1.2.18 :(09:55
frals_lcuk: did you ever finish that 'clone device' stuff so it would be easy to get 2 devices exactly the same? :p09:55
timeless_mbpstage a beta deployment?09:55
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: screw x-lite09:55
dotblankgah telephony equipment costs too much09:56
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer:  you have something better? i'm open to suggestions09:56
Xisdibikluke-jr: whats your end goal with the video chat?09:56
dotblankits insaine09:56
luke-jrXisdibik: talk to my wife09:56
timeless_mbpanyway, relying on traditional phone companies for video call support is stupid09:56
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: for SIP on linux? sure09:56
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer:  on osx09:56
Xisdibikluke-jr: just use a proprietary one until an open one comes along thats simple imho09:56
luke-jrXisdibik: I don't use proprietary software.09:56
dotblankI was a cisco voice engineer09:57
luke-jranyone tried ?09:57
Xisdibikdoes that mean you dont have an n900? :)09:57
DocScrutinizerthere've been some attempts to port twinkle for OSX. Seems some lib always blew chunks, but it should be feasible09:57
konfoodotblank: my condolences09:57
luke-jrXisdibik: sure don't.09:57
Xisdibikluke-jr: what phone do u have?09:57
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luke-jrXisdibik: none09:57
konfoodotblank: are you the one i should hold responsible for this pile of crap cisco voip system we have?09:57
Xisdibikluke-jr: maybe you should look into a phone so u can call your wife ;)09:58
dotblankI worked for a cisco partner09:58
luke-jrXisdibik: why?09:58
luke-jrXisdibik: ok, fine, I do have a phone09:58
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Xisdibikluke-jr: ha truth found:P09:58
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luke-jrsome GE thing09:58
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: michel de Boer (original author of twinkle) was very strict on keeping it platform independent09:58
dotblankbut omg... they have unity running on windows boxes09:58
konfoounified systems 500.. biggest pile i have seen in a while09:58
luke-jruses RJ11 etc09:58
Xisdibiksounds proprietary luke-jr  ;)09:58
dotblankI hate unity09:58
luke-jrXisdibik: sounds CPUless09:58
dotblankI hate presence server09:59
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: that's why the cli interface uses a named pipe instead of d-bus09:59
konfoothankfully i dont have to deal with it09:59
dotblankwe lost quite a lot of buisness to linux users implementing asterisks in schools09:59
dotblankand this is in america09:59
konfoobut i did like the way they swore up and down to not use the shell and use the 'gui'.. which resulted in the entire system going to crap cause it basically overwrites all your settings with it's 'defaults'09:59
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dotblankthe shell is so much better10:00
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: if you're interested, twinkle is going 'community' this very moment10:00
dotblankbut what got me really angry were undocumented ios commands for debugging callerid10:00
konfootwinkle is what my dog does in a corner10:01
dotblankand they worst thing is cisco's bug reporting tool10:01
* timeless_mbp is already resource overstretched10:01
dotblankit is beyond horrible10:01
konfoodotblank: can we stop this depressing conversation10:01
MohammadAG51I still think IRC should be improved10:01
dotblankkonfoo, sure10:02
konfooyou cant improve perfection10:02
MohammadAG51add voice chat by converting it into ascii xP10:02
konfoodotblank excellent :)10:02
DocScrutinizerkonfoo: ??10:02
luke-jrI think I like QuteCom so far10:02
luke-jrat least in theory10:02
DocScrutinizer~dict twinkle10:02
dotblankthey should have an irc with a whiteboard but only opps or a special write flag to users permitted to use it10:02
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infoboti could not get info from 'alarm at /home/ibot/infobot/src/Modules/ line 42.10:03
konfoomy definition holds10:03
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DocScrutinizeryou got a strange dog, konfoo10:03
konfoothat i do10:03
luke-jrminus the libpurple dep :(10:03
DocScrutinizertwinkle twinkle little star10:03
DocScrutinizers/start/dog/ for konfoo's kids10:04
konfoothey have diapers for that10:04
konfoohey its late, and i have spent the day deep in erlang. have some sympathy10:04
dotblankWhat distros are you all using?10:05
* DocScrutinizer suggestes to konfoo he should run a memtest on his wetware10:05
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dotblankjust started using arch and now im very fond of it10:05
konfoowakka wakka?10:06
DocScrutinizerouch that's worse than we thought10:06
konfoothe fact that he's using arch?10:07
konfooor my lame pacman impersonation10:07
DocScrutinizersee where erlang get your mind, children :-P10:07
konfoohaha indeed10:07
luke-jreither erlang sucks, or ejabberd makes a bad example <.<10:07
konfooive not used ejabberd but i did try to install it once (went with openfire) and it was a little too cryptic10:08
luke-jrI don't know why, but I seem to like ejabberd10:09
luke-jrdespite the problems it gives me10:09
DocScrutinizerchurch of emacs?10:09
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DocScrutinizereighty megbytes and constantly swapping10:10
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luke-jrSupybot by far uses the most RAM on my server10:10
DocScrutinizer(used to be eight in former days)10:10
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luke-jr168 MB10:11
DocScrutinizerbut that's the nice thing with ETLAs, you can adapt them to the needs10:11
dotblankwow someone in ubuntu-offtopic found this gem10:11
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luke-jrejabberd is only 50 MB10:11
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ZogGDocScrutinizer вщ г умук ыдууз,10:17
ZogGdo you ever sleep?10:17
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ZogGDocScrutinizer, i think you and MohammadAG51 are cyborgs10:17
DocScrutinizernow that's funny:10:19
DocScrutinizer~x ru en вщ г умук ыдууз10:19
infobotÐ ² Ñ ‰ Ð ³ Ñ ƒ Ð ¼ Ñ ƒ Of ðº Ñ ‹ OF Ð´Ñ ƒ Ñ ƒ з10:19
ZogGas well as it';s gebbrish in russian too10:20
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DocScrutinizer~x de en infobot du bist eine kuh10:21
infobotinfo.-offered you are a cow10:21
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tekojomorning Stskeeps!10:34
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Stskeepsmorn tekojo10:34
tekojoStskeeps:  coffee?10:34
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Stskeepstekojo: sure10:34
tekojodanielwilms: want to join for coffee?10:35
danielwilmstekojo hehe...sure10:35
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DocScrutinizerhmm coffee10:39
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DocScrutinizer~tell konfoo about twinkle10:41
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JaffaMorning, all10:49
MohammadAG51Morning Jaffa10:49
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DocScrutinizermo jaffa10:50
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ZogGtekojo i would liek coffee too please =)11:18
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* tekojo starts wondering how much it costs to send coffee around the world11:26
DocScrutinizerdepends on temperature you want it to keep11:27
Lullenwhats wrong with my changelog? error:
Lullenqexercise (0.1-2) unstable; urgency=low11:27
Lullen  * Initial release (Closes: #nnnn)  <nnnn is the bug number of your ITP>11:27
Lullen -- unknown <>  Fri, 18 Jun 2010 10:16:36 +020011:27
Lullenis the changelog file11:27
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lcuktekojo, sending the coffee isnt expensive - its the personal butler to hold the cup and keep it stirred and hot during the journey that is :D11:50
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* frals_ slaps lcuk11:52
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lcukmorning frals_ \o11:52
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frals_mornin o/11:52
frals_did you see what i asked you above?11:52
lcukand no, i didnt do a clone service11:52
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frals_ok :D11:53
lcukits also a bit infeasible for large quantities but can be done with ssh11:53
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frals_just need it for my 2 devices pretty much.. guess i could do with backup/restore app11:54
lcukit will be interesting to see if usb host mode could allow it to happen11:54
lcukyeah but you miss everything in mydocs11:54
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frals_can you modify backuprestore app to include stuff like that?11:55
achipaX-Fade: it... just... keeps... on... coming... back :) the frenzy thing, I mean11:55
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crashanddiefrals_: you could modify the PC Suite scripts to enable usb networking automagically, and then launch an rsynch after a few minutes11:59
ag0nyWhere is the file that keeps the information about where the desktop icons are placed?11:59
ZogGfrals_ you are working on maemo/meego in Nokia - right?11:59
frals_crashanddie: alright, ill look in to that, thanks :)12:00
crashanddieag0ny: /usr/share/applications/hildon/?12:01
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ZogGfrals_ ?12:02
ag0nycrashanddie: and what is it called?12:02
crashanddieag0ny: eh?12:02
crashanddieag0ny: I don't know, Philip? Roger? Alex?12:03
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ag0nycrashanddie: Hm...12:03
DocScrutinizer.desktop maybe?12:03
ag0nyin /usr/share/applications/hildon/ there are a lot of .desktop files12:03
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frals_ZogG: yes i work for nokia.12:04
ag0nybut none of these contains information about where the icon is placed12:04
ag0nyinstead they container info about the name/icon /exec things12:04
ZogGfrals_ i know, i already told you my congrats, i just wonder if you work on maemo/meego specificly or not12:04
DocScrutinizerag0ny: you got a point there12:05
ZogGand the second question - doest it mean your apps would be more integrated in amemo as you work and have more access to OS12:05
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ag0nyDocScrutinizer: There must (as far as I can imagine) be a file that holds information about where the icons are placed on the desktops12:06
DocScrutinizeraah, yes12:06
I4UHello, I'm trying to activate hid.12:07
I4UI open xterminal12:07
I4UI can't find an editor.12:07
I4Uto open main.conf12:07
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ag0nyDocScrutinizer: But where and what is it called? (I want to configure my desktops within this file, as placing icons precicesly (sp?) is a bit problematic)12:07
DocScrutinizeryou could enable gridsnap in tweakr12:08
DocScrutinizerbut there of course has to be a file to edit plain text the icon pos on the 4 desktops12:08
DocScrutinizeralas I don't know offhand12:08
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ag0nyDocScrutinizer: ok, so I am at least not fully dumb :D12:09
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I4UHello again! just a very basic information: what command in xterminal to edit a text file?12:10
I4UThanks scelt!12:11
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I4UXterminal isn't cooperative: "nano: command not found"12:13
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ZogGI4U apt-get install nano12:16
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I4UZogG, things are so simple with the right tip!12:18
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ZogGI4U as maemo is small on phone - some progs are not included12:19
DocScrutinizerag0ny: if you got bad luck, then those are stored in gconf12:21
Dassuanybody here using qtnx? Seems like even the keyboard doesn't work12:22
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: any idea where the desktop icons/widgets positions are stored?12:22
timeless_mbpnot offhand12:23
timeless_mbpbut strace is your friend12:23
DocScrutinizerI'd probably prefer find12:23
sejodid someone here test the android on n90012:23
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ag0nyDocScrutinizer: I used tweakr and the grid :D12:24
ag0nyDocScrutinizer: Thanks for the hint12:24
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I4UAfter installing nano, xterminal said: "apt-get -f install to correct unmet dependencies. It proposes to install ussd4all. I accept and receive the message: "Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/ussd4all_0.0.1armel.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1). What is to be done?12:28
lcukapt-get install coffee12:29
I4UIf I try to use nano: "not found"!12:30
lcukI4U, i wasnt answering your point initially, i am trying to get more coffee to start the day.  so try removing ussd perhaps or rerun apt-get update and apt-get -f install12:31
lcukits possible you have some dodgy repositories listed which are getting your dependencies screwed up12:32
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DassuHmm, qtnx seems to be pretty buggy. Keyboard doesn't work, the remote desktop window only opens if the settings has been alterned during same session. O_o.... Guessing that keyboard could be gotten to work on a user level but with the window problem no hope shall I have12:32
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Dassuno real fullscreen :/12:32
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pancakehow can I disable the pre-loading screenshot "feature" of pr1.2?12:34
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ZogGI4U klemme get my n90012:35
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pancakeis this implemented in the window manager?12:39
pancakewhere the pics are stored?12:39
I4UZogG: klemme? I don't understantd.12:39
ZogGlet me =))12:40
I4UOK ;)12:41
pancakecan somebody hear me?12:45
lcukpancake, afaik its upto applications to take their own snapshot12:45
DocScrutinizerpancake: hear yes. understand no12:46
lcukand MohammadAG51 knows the folder, i cant remember where it is12:46
pancakelcuk: so, how can I disable this feature in the mail client?12:46
I4UZogG, I uninstall ussd-widget. Reinstall nano with the message: "E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)"12:46
lcukpancake, patch the mail client12:46
pancakeat which offset? :)12:46
lcuki dunno, source is available tho ;) no need to be a barbarian, we have compilers12:47
lcukbut how about you start by explaining your problem with it12:47
DocScrutinizerpancake: maybe creating a 0 length 'image' file and set it chmod u-w might do the trick12:48
lcuksince its obviously there and used by many people12:48
ZogGI4U oh, sorry, i rebooted phone (actually only turned off) and forgot about you. let me turn it on and try to install, i did it on pr 1.1.1 as i remmeber12:48
pancakewell. its a pity to get wrong application UI while it's loading12:48
lcukpancake, can you take screenshots and check if theres a bug against it12:48
pancakeso you get>screenshot->
DocScrutinizerpancake: resp chown root && chmod go-w12:48
pancakelcuk: i should record a video to demonstrate it12:49
pancakebut its quite anoying to try to click on stuff that it's not there12:49
lcukpancake, whatever as long as its short12:49
pancakelcuk: where's the screenshot?12:49
* pancake is checking the source12:49
pancakei can fix it with LD_PRELOAD12:49
I4UZogG, I'm on PR1.212:49
ZogGme too12:49
ZogGI4U, i installed it12:50
DocScrutinizerwe had this question "where are the screenshots" maybe 24h ago in this chan12:50
lcukpancake, id rather see the problem before trying to hack something to it12:50
ZogGand had an error at the end, but it works =)12:50
pancakelcuk: do you use modest?12:50
lcukif indeed its a bug i'd rather do something more than a hack12:50
pancakelcuk: i want a hack for testing, will report issue with a patch12:50
DocScrutinizerlcuk: how can it be a 'bug' when the app is showing a misleading screenshot while it loads?12:51
pancakemodest_account_view_set_show_last_update() weird method name :)12:51
pancakei can certainly fix this in binary easily than setting up the development environment12:52
DocScrutinizerI'd replace the 'scrennshot' image by a photo of a turtle, and set that readonly12:52
pancakei like turtles12:52
I4UZogG, I just ran  "nano /etc/bluetooth/main.conf" without result. But with "nano" alone, it runs! Everything OK! Big thanks and nice day!12:52
lcukDocScrutinizer, of course it can be.  pancake no.12:53
ZogGI4U, maybe you need to be root to do it, as well try with -w flag12:53
lcukpancake, when you say its wrong, what is it actually showing12:53
lcuk(the part about pictures being worth 1000 words12:53
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pancakea screenshot saying that there are no accounts configured12:54
DocScrutinizerlcuk: AIUI a non working fake set of buttones and other widgets12:54
pancakeor new mails in inbox, but this changes when updated12:54
pancakeso this should be removed12:54
DocScrutinizerreplaced by a turtle12:54
pancakeits doing more things than the necesary ones, its confusing the user and showing outdated information12:54
eitamaSigh! I want to upload my up to devel, and the request to upload is not coming ):12:54
lcukok "wrong application ui" made me think it was showing stuff from the wrong application12:55
pancakeTells the window manager to take a screenshot of window, or to destroy the existing one. window must be mapped.12:55
lcukits outdated and not being refreshed12:55
pancakehow is the window manager supossed to take a screenshot?12:55
I4UI was root. But you're right: it runs with -w flag. Thanks again.12:55
DocScrutinizerhonestly that's a really fool's idea to do that screenshot shit12:55
pancakeits a copy from apple12:56
pancakebut apple people are smart enought to do it right12:56
lcukpancake, its possible the screenshots have been chowned to root perhaps12:56
lcukso they arent being updated12:56
DocScrutinizerheh, so exactly what I suggested :-P12:56
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eitamaGuys, anyone knows the Qt Command to check if a contact is "!gsmContact" ?12:57
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* DocScrutinizer ponders to never ever update to friggin 1.212:58
* eitama Has PR1.2 and is very happy.12:58
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DocScrutinizerI have 1.1.1 and really don't miss anything that I'd know 1.2 is delivering12:59
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lcukeitama, mm potentially better to ask in #qt-maemo13:00
DocScrutinizertbh it seems 1.2 isn't fixing a single one of the things I'd like to see fixed, but introduces lots of regressions and idiotic new things13:00
ZogGI4U np =)13:00
* lcuk is very happy with pr1.2 :)13:00
DocScrutinizerlcuk: so what was it that actually improved for you with 1.2?13:01
lcukspace.  lots of space :) mainly because i personally had hand in doing it13:02
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lcukDocScrutinizer, wiping off a big chunk of the reported bugs was major benefit13:04
DocScrutinizerto me it seems like space is sth I easily get as much as I ever need when I implement a decent partitioning and move all the /var and /usr shit out of NAND13:04
pancakeuhmj maybe its in ~/.cache/launch/*modest13:04
lcukDocScrutinizer, then come up with a plan thats reproducable and maintainable and that can be retroactively fitted to all machines13:05
DocScrutinizerbut alas I'm left behind with 1.1.1 now, as none of the apps will install anymore13:05
DocScrutinizerlcuk: these plans are long existing, proven to work, and only problem is next update will fsck up your system as Nokia won't adopt any of those schemes13:06
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: sadly the system needs access to your theme in its play dead modes13:07
DocScrutinizerso evidentally Nokia missed another opportunity to sanitize optification BS, with 1.213:07
timeless_mbpso you can't simply move /usr off of the rootfs13:07
ZogGlcuk: i was pissed off of pr1.2, cause i waited for things i didn't get =)13:07
timeless_mbpZogG: were they promised/13:08
ZogGtimeless_mbp yes13:08
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: WHAT? play_dead needs /usr and hasn't mounted eMMC?13:08
ZogGbugfixes =)13:08
eitamalcuk, thanks (:13:08
ZogGthey even were marked as fixed =)13:08
timeless_mbpZogG: i'm pretty sure we delivered a couple of those :)13:09
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: sounds right13:09
DocScrutinizerthat's errrr, so ODD13:09
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: there's a message saying that your n900 is charged13:09
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DrIDKHow can I launch from xterminal the mediaplayer ?13:09
timeless_mbpand a message saying that you have insufficient voltage iirc13:09
ZogGtimeless_mbp the play resume bug is really, but really unforgivable13:09
timeless_mbpthere's also the alarm clock13:09
DrIDKWhat's the name of application13:09
ZogGDrIDK you can run it from desctop and than check in top the name13:10
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: fine, fine. But why can't you have access to eMMC partitions at that time13:10
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: having things mounted when the battery is likely to be randomly unplugged?13:11
timeless_mbpnot a great idea13:11
timeless_mbpand mounting it isn't cheap13:11
DocScrutinizeris the VDD voltage for eMMC switched off or what?13:11
timeless_mbpmount can imply fsck13:11
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timeless_mbpif you want to *quickly* show a message, or an alarm13:11
lcuktimeless_mbp, themes are optified by default..13:11
DocScrutinizermount RO13:11
timeless_mbpyou can't wait for it13:11
timeless_mbplcuk: which results in disasters :)13:11
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lcuknb# ?13:12
timeless_mbpdunno offhand13:12
alteregoAnyone else noticed how ridiculously slow microb auto complete for uri locations when you've visited a fair few sites :/ just had to clear browsing history to make it not stall when typing in a new location ... :(13:12
timeless_mbpshouldn't be too hard to find13:12
* frals_ nb's lcuk13:12
pancakeyeah chmod 000 ~/.cache/launch fixes my issue13:12
DocScrutinizerwe can't sanitize optification cause we screwed with themes? not a sane rationale13:12
DrIDKIs it possible to open rtsp in mediaplayer ?13:12
timeless_mbpalterego: it's known :(13:13
lcuktimeless_mbp, also, in those act dead states - doesnt the mmc get mounted for usb13:13
timeless_mbplcuk: it shouldn't be mounted unless there's actually power from the host and a real host13:13
timeless_mbpand that's the fat volume13:13
DocScrutinizerif play_dead needs something from /usr then that's a elementary bug, nothing else. As /usr per definitionem is an optional directory/resource for a minimal system13:14
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timeless_mbpi don't think we would need to mount /home for that13:14
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timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: did we say we were bug free?13:14
timeless_mbpplay dead uses X13:14
timeless_mbpX is optional13:14
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timeless_mbpoh cute, /usr/share/themes is a symlink to opt13:15
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ZogGjon lajoie is great =)13:16
ZogG".. and i'm pretty good in making paper plains..."13:16
DocScrutinizerthe three stooges building a phone - something another vice boss of another company said about what the sw and EE development looked like. I just get a deja vu13:16
lcuki know exactly where that themes folder was done13:17
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alteregoIs the xml schema for systemui.xml available? I want to add two entries for launching settings and app manager13:18
timeless_mbplcuk: it's also possible we changed the behavior of the system to leave /home mounted13:18
timeless_mbpi don't remember the resolution13:18
timeless_mbpi remember that there was a time when we had to delay 1.2 because we discovered that themes weren't working because they weren't available13:18
* lcuk nods13:18
timeless_mbpnb bugzilla isn't liking me13:19
timeless_mbpquicksearch=ALL+act+dead+theme <- murder on bugzilla13:19
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timeless_mbpalterego: the format is easy enough to reverse engineer13:19
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timeless_mbpdo you really need a document?13:19
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alteregoWell, I was wondering if there were some other extensions, I'm just interested. I know the file contains a few variations that are good.13:21
alteregoThat and I don't know the settings or app manager dbus service details, if there are any.13:21
* DocScrutinizer muses about ""when the battery is likely to be randomly unplugged"" and doesn't really make a sense out of it13:21
th3hatemy device insists on using the default transitions, even after copying a custom one to usr/share/hildon-desktop and restarting.13:22
th3hateany ideas?13:22
alteregomeh, tmo renders like a dog when microb is set to use large font :(13:23
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alteregoanyhow, shower time13:24
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DocScrutinizerhonestly, at least /usr shouldn't normaly hold any open write filehandle, so what could hapen, even on the suggested "when the battery is likely to be randomly unplugged" event, that I still fail to see13:28
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DocScrutinizerand in which way could it be any better to have /usr on NAND than to keep it in eMMC? where's the difference?13:29
DocScrutinizer(except claimed bandwidth diffs)13:29
DocScrutinizerI *absolutely* fail to see the rationale behind that "we can't do it, as we need themes in play_dead"13:30
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lcukDocScrutinizer, relax.  really the simplest way to find out if it works is to try it and see.  publish results etc13:32
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DocScrutinizerruskie did afaik13:32
lcukdo you have a link?13:33
DocScrutinizerwiki/user:ruskie I suppose13:33
DocScrutinizerruskie: any comments?13:33
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: and honestly: if it does *not* work ootb, then there's for sure something better to fix than just cling with braindead optification. The main issue though is you probably hardly find a sane upgrade path that doesn't mean "reflash rootfs AND eMMC"13:35
DocScrutinizerwhich basically means no OTA SSU for anybody13:35
DocScrutinizercode wrong once, suffer many13:36
DocScrutinizer</quote timeless_mbp >13:36
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timeless_mbpthe simplest tests are picking an interesting theme; setting device + sim locks, and an alarm. then power off13:39
timeless_mbpwhen you turn it on (or when it turns on), how does the pin/ alarm view look13:39
timeless_mbpor when you plug it into a charger, how does the animation for charging look (and how does the text look)13:40
DocScrutinizernot without making sure you took care to mount the needed partitions just in time13:40
timeless_mbpanyway, those are iirc the interesting edge cases13:40
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timeless_mbpwhich most people did not think about when they did their initial attempts at optification13:41
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DocScrutinizererr, btw: animation on plugging off device into charger?13:41
DocScrutinizeris that new in 1.2?13:41
timeless_mbpmaybe it was removed?13:41
timeless_mbpi remember we had one at one point13:41
DocScrutinizernever seen that13:41
timeless_mbpmaybe that was an n8x0 thing13:41
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DocScrutinizerhmm, seems that's been the easiest of the needed "fixes" then13:42
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crashanddieo/ timeless_mbp13:43
crashanddietimeless_mbp: howzit?13:43
DocScrutinizerhonestly, I fail to see any technical reason why we couldn't use eMMC for anything that's been on NAND so far. Except of "unbearably slow" which I maybe could live with, or I'd like to live with the slowness rather13:44
zaheermif people coulsd test the zoutube in extras-testing and vote, maybe we can get the non-working zoutube in extras upgraded13:44
zaheerm is the link13:44
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timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: if you're willing to live w/ it13:45
timeless_mbpthen just do it ™13:45
DocScrutinizerwell the diff in look&feel of a 11MB/s vs a former 17MB/s is arguable13:45
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DocScrutinizerrule of thumb is you need a 2:1 at least for user to really notice13:46
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DocScrutinizerand "notice" << "unbearable"13:47
timeless_mbpour managers are annoying13:47
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timeless_mbpthey noticed it13:47
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timeless_mbpand our customers are worse13:47
timeless_mbpthey'd notice13:47
SpeedEvilI've not managed any (read) benchmarks that show it being slower13:48
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timeless_mbpcrashanddie:  missing lunch13:48
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crashanddietimeless: I'm sure you're used to that13:48
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DocScrutinizera decent fs probably would easily compensate for any smaller bandwidth of eMMC bus13:48
alteregoOh sweet, has someone ported flashback!!!13:49
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alteregoFrackin' love that game for frack sake sulu13:50
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timelesszootube should not be in network13:53
timelessit should be in multimedia13:54
alteregoOh, cwappy copy, I'll have to find the game files too Can't remember if I still have those floppys13:54
timelessplease move for .413:54
alteregoand I don't have any machine with a floppy drive :D13:54
pupnik_alterego: can game data be distributed with the engine?13:55
eitamaWhat's flashback? (:13:55
alteregoDoubt it, I'd imagine it's still copy righted.13:56
alteregoWasmsuch a good game, I must have played it 10 times :)13:56
SpeedEviltimeless: I think you may mean zoutube13:56
SpeedEviltimeless: Unless some rather unexpected app has appeared.13:56
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DocScrutinizerwasn't that the URL you warned us to ever visit, SpeedEvil ?13:57
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timelessselect video quality is giving me an empty dialog13:57
screwgoth1I'm having trouble with booting the pre-alpha2 image on Beagleboard. Is the alpha image recommended ?13:58
alteregoStill need two more votes on my app if anyone is interested ;)13:58
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yes, it was not... ?13:58
timelessalterego: if you're listening, you'll get my boye in 7mins13:58
alteregotimeless: :D13:59
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: It was the URL I warned not to ever13:59
alteregoI have two mates, neither of which can remeber their site passwords :( Useless buggers.13:59
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zaheermtimeless, ok i will move it in git13:59
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zaheermtimeless, which video did you select to get an empty dialog?14:00
SpeedEvilalterego: It would be interesting to ping the original rights holders, and see if you could put them up in a for-pay store. (for their benegfit)14:00
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: strange. In German a warning negates the action you warn, I.E it implies a "don't do". You can't warn anybody to actually do something14:01
alteregoSpeedEvil: yeah, would be cool if we could do that.14:01
SpeedEvilalterego: Problem is of course, generally, the actual current rights holder - if you can track them down - will have no cognitive investment in the game.14:02
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th3hatemy device insists on using the default transitions, even after copying a custom one to usr/share/hildon-desktop and restarting. Any ideas how to fix?14:06
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: In english, the not is always - well - usually - explicit - it would be unusual to leave it out.14:08
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: thanks :-)14:08
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DocScrutinizernow I know why this American guy fell off the roof :-P14:09
pupnik  Using open transport tycoon deluxe to simulate digital logic circuits....14:09
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: errr o.O14:12
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: I heard of a Siemens guy that coded his own text editor using excel with user defined functions - one char per cell, insert too ages when done on top of a long text :-P14:14
DassuHas somebody here tried qtnx inside easy debian?14:14
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: that is perverse also :)14:15
me1neoh I always assumed "perverse" was a false friend14:16
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crashanddieok, I need some help14:18
crashanddieI have a cheque that was deposited on my account of some 20 grand14:18
crashanddieNo idea where it came from, so probably a mistake14:18
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SpeedEvilIt was me! Plz return.14:18
crashanddiewhat do I do? Contact the bank to know what it was for? In that case they may spot the mistake and remove the monies?14:19
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: yes.14:19
crashanddieBut if I use the money, and they spot the money, I'm toast anyway14:19
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: indeed.14:19
crashanddieis there a finder's fee in case it was a mistake?14:19
crashanddiesay, 18 grand?14:20
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: In theory, at least in the UK, you can take the money out, put it in another account, and if nobody claims it in 7 years, it's yours.14:20
crashanddieI could use it right about now.14:20
SpeedEvilBut if you use it, that's theft.14:20
SpeedEvilThat sort of thing rarely ends well.14:20
Dassukamui: ?14:20
alteregoThe 7 years only counts if you notify the police.14:21
SpeedEvilThe bank deposited 20 grand accidentally into my dads account, and he used it to finance a very poorly thought out notice.14:21
SpeedEvilalterego: I don't think so - it's the time limit on debts.14:21
SpeedEvilIf the creditor has not contacted you.14:21
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SpeedEvilPlease note, I am not a lawyer. If this causes you any trouble, I reserve the right to point and laugh.14:22
alteregoSpeedEvil: it still counts as lost and stolen goods.14:22
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alteregodifferent thing entirely.14:22
alteregoAnd, I think in this case it's actually only 6 months if you declare it with the police.14:23
SpeedEvilalterego: You are under no obligation to report stuff you find to the police, if the owner knows where it is. And they do - they know they can ask the bank.14:23
crashanddieSpeedEvil: you do in france14:23
SpeedEvilbut - see above caveat.14:23
DocScrutinizer51I'd think ignoring it is a safe bet14:23
SpeedEvilthis varies lots with legislation.14:23
SpeedEvillocality I mean14:23
crashanddieSpeedEvil: in France, the law is that you find something, declare it to the police (and file a claim), and after one year and one day, it's yours.14:23
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SpeedEvilcrashanddie: That's for physical property though - which stuff in a bank account isn't quite.14:24
alteregoI think you should check your statement and see where it came from, for instance, do you even know it's a cheque and not a bank xfer?14:24
crashanddiethis is only for physical property, so no idea for "the bank made a mistake in your favour, receive 20 grand"14:24
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SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Also - on my online statement - more info pops up on the transaction after a few days14:25
alteregocrashanddie: that's why you take the money out and give it to the police ;)14:25
frals_id put the cash in my savings account and get interest on it!14:25
alteregocrashanddie: do nothing, reap the interest :D14:25
crashanddiealterego: isn't that called a bribe? :D14:25
alteregoyeah, maybe :)14:25
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: And on your way to the police station, you get robbed by a mysterious being of indeterminate race, height, gender, and number of legs.14:25
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DocScrutinizer51if you're just not aware it's a mistake then you can't do anything bad. Just act as if it's exctly what you expected14:26
alteregoJust closd the account and move to a countey where they don'gt have an extradition rule with your gov't :D14:27
crashanddiefrance has extradition with nearly everyone14:27
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SpeedEvilFor 2 milllion - yes - maybe - 20 million sure.14:27
SpeedEvilYou can't live off 20 grand anywhere.14:28
SpeedEvilWell - you can.14:28
SpeedEvilBut you wouldn't want to.14:28
crashanddiewell, I used to live off 70 grand, and I'm 2314:28
lcuktechnically you can live with 014:28
crashanddieerr, 24 now, so yeah, no, can't live off that14:28
SpeedEvillcuk: I mean off the income from, as I suspect you realised.14:28
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alteregoNever said live off, just have a really good long holiday for a month or two :D14:30
SpeedEvilAh, indeed.14:31
* SpeedEvil would blow it all on shiny test equipment!14:31
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crashanddieactually, I'd probably put it towards a house14:33
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* SpeedEvil stabs stupid house-price inflation.14:34
timeless_mbplcuk: speaking of nb's, check out attachment 9226814:35
povbotAttachment 92268 was not found or is not accessible.14:35
timeless_mbpspecifically the last couple of comments14:35
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lcuktimeless_mbp, i see the attach, which nb is that on?14:36
timeless_mbpadd &action=edit14:37
alteregoright, I'm outta here, see you all later.14:38
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crashanddiepovbot: attachment 114:41
povbotcrashanddie: Attachment image/png, Screenshot to illustrate the problem, see the summary text field., todo-edit.png14:41
crashanddielcuk: did you read this one: " German student created a major traffic jam in Bavaria after making a rude gesture at a group of Hell's Angels motorcycle gang members, hurling a puppy at them and then escaping on a stolen bulldozer."14:41
lcukyes crashanddie !14:41
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sejowhat format is the storage card in the n900?14:45
timeless_mbpdo you mean the internal memory or the removable thing?14:46
timeless_mbpthe internal is partitioned ~3 ways (swap, ext3, vfat)14:46
sejoremovable thing14:46
timeless_mbpit should be vfat...14:46
timeless_mbpsince it isn't useful to you if you can't use it in an arbitrary camera or on an arbitrary computer14:46
sejo(i borked it by trying to install the NITdroid)14:46
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DocScrutinizer51just format it from HFM context menu?14:49
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sejofrom where?14:50
pupnikclever 'branding' by google to make their crap require a custom kernel...14:50
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DocScrutinizersejo: Hildon File Manager14:52
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sejoDocScrutinizer: going to install that one14:54
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DocScrutinizererr, should come with every stock maemo14:54
sejothen you can't format it14:54
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sejoDocScrutinizer: the filemanager that's on it does not show a format toption14:55
DocScrutinizerhere it does14:56
sejoonly memory card option and it says it's corrupted14:56
DocScrutinizerwhat is "memeory card option"?14:56
sejoit shows me the memory usage14:57
sejothat's it14:57
* DocScrutinizer shrugs14:57
DocScrutinizer51you know the meaning of 'context menu' ?14:58
achipadepends on the context (why does saying this feel recursive ?)14:59
ZogGDocScrutinizer51 try to be nice =))))14:59
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DocScrutinizer51click and hold card icon on the left side treeview14:59
DocScrutinizer51menu pops up14:59
DocScrutinizer51select 'format'14:59
ZogGor you can use format c:/=))))15:00
zaheermtimeless, seems youtube changed their html again, looks like will have to push out a 0.2-4 soon15:00
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sejoDocScrutinizer: there is no card item nor a treeview15:01
sejoonly (no files/folders) message15:02
timeless_mbpzaheerm: so you can integrate my suggestions :)15:02
zaheermtimeless_mbp, yep15:02
Andy80do you know if a properly patched N900 wireless driver exist that support packet injection?15:04
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DocScrutinizer51sejo: here are two items: phone (=MyDocs eMMC) and card (=uSD), and both have 'format' in context menu15:06
sejoDocScrutinizer: here there are no items at all15:07
sejoi'll reflash it15:07
DocScrutinizer51so seems you borked eMMC as well as uSD15:07
DocScrutinizer51reflash of rootf won't help15:08
sejowell I can always keep android and use that :p15:08
DocScrutinizer51or install windows 7 mobile15:09
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Sebas1does everything works in Android?15:09
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sejoBrazza: give me a sec15:10
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sejobleh need to redo the partition15:11
sejo(doesn't boot correctly)15:11
BrazzaI wish there was a good contact manager. twice now I had to redo my contacts..15:11
Brazzafor maemo515:11
sejoBrazza: I sync mine with my zarafa server and that helps15:12
Brazzaah k.. well I pref have an offline one:) but ill try this. Better as in Vmware syncing with outlook :D15:13
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sejoBrazza: it works nicely and I have everything on a mac also that syncs with the same server15:13
sejoworks like a charm15:14
DocScrutinizer51I do an occasional backup, so even if I'd lose my contacts... restore&smile15:14
Brazzayeah mac :S15:14
Brazzasejo: this zafara commercial/trial?15:15
sejoBrazza: use evolution that  syncs also15:15
sejofree version15:15
sejowith adittional zpush (also free)15:15
Brazzas*cks even vodafone and nokia don't support the n900 in there online backup./.15:16
BrazzaI still like the n900. (haven't got it more as 1.5month)15:17
Brazzacan't wait to run meego with a gui.:)15:17
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Brazzalast time I almost bricked mine:D15:17
DocScrutinizer51honestly, why?15:18
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DocScrutinizer51what is it meego got t make it so attractive for you - right now, or even with a halfbaked gui?15:19
BrazzaI deleted the bootmenu and wanted to flash both drives15:19
* nextime sad that people respond so well to meego coming to n90015:20
flailingmonkeythey want to feel special, and hip15:20
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Brazzawell I like it more as android though.15:20
Brazzamaybe xause its more customisable15:20
nextimeBrazza : is less customizable android vs both maemo and meego15:20
nextimeit is just more supported actually15:20
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DocScrutinizer51if I'd want an andridiot phone, I'd for sure not buy a N90015:21
sejobleh doesn't work15:21
sejoDocScrutinizer: same here but still wanted to test it once15:21
Brazzaanyway it might get somewhere between making one myself or die trying:D15:21
nextimeanyway, i hope ( i know it is an utopic thing ) that nokia will goes back to maemo and not switch to meego15:22
nextimebut probably i'm the only one15:22
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nextimein alternative, i wish meego will switch to deb packages :P15:22
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Brazzabtw does anyone know a app which locks the icons on the desktop? and not the whole mobile with keyb?15:23
nextime( to be sincere, i'm not an rpm haters, i have nothing against rpm. I just love deb. )15:23
andre900Brazza: how do you mean?15:23
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Brazzawell I had twice now when I put my phone in my pocket all icons are mixed up15:24
andre900sounds more like a bug15:24
pupniknextime: n900+maemo itself doesn't draw enough manufacturers, carriers, content providers and software developers15:24
nextimepupnik: true, but is doesn't matter in my vision15:25
nextimeas i'm a debian geek15:25
andre900Brazza: icons should only be movable after going to the desktop title menu15:25
nextimeso, i'm happy with maemo15:25
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pupniknextime: yes, n900 is kind of a dream come true15:25
flailingmonkeyalterego: ping15:26
pupniksometimes i wonder if the 'partner' nokia should have courted isn't intel, but linux itself.15:26
BrazzaI couldn't wait for the n8 but I like the nerdy feeling of the n900:D15:26
Brazzalove to do rm -rf / some day on it15:27
flailingmonkeyBrazza: sure15:28
flailingmonkeypupnik: the meego project is under linux foundation, thats basically as close to a partner as they get15:28
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flailingmonkeyfrankly, screw meego, get me some harmattan15:30
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pupniki'm intentionally conflating different levels of things there flailingmonkey :)15:31
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flailingmonkeyi don't give a flying noun about deb vs rpm. just find a package manager that is faster than apt15:33
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flailingmonkeyapt and yum are both slow for a phone, and maybe zypper can do better. performance is what counts15:34
pupnikflailingmonkey yes yes yes15:34
pupnikplease no rescanning the database after i install an app15:34
pupnikand  before15:34
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nextimeflailingmonkey : i dont agree, but if this is your point, there are both ipkg and opkg from openwrt15:34
Brazzabtw anyone wants some wallpapers for maemo  (no spam)15:35
nextimebut my point isn't to be against this or the other one pkg15:35
flailingmonkeyat least one of them is not maintained15:35
nextimeis only cause i'm common to deb and i have my own repo for debian packages15:35
nextimeso, it is just a personal thing15:35
pupniknice wallpapers there Brazza15:36
Brazzamore in the / 16:10:D15:36
Brazzayou have to resize them urself.15:36
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flailingmonkeytheres also smart, but again performance is key15:37
flailingmonkeynextime: then you should be more excited about (deb based) harmattan than meego :P15:37
sallesaodoes anyone now what the problem might be when apt-get does not find
sallesaoI have tried to change nameserver15:38
timeless_mbpsallesao: no network? :)15:38
sallesaointernets works fine15:38
nextimeflailingmonkey : in my opinion performance isn't so important. After all you don't need to install application every minutes, you need performance when you are using apps, not when you install it15:38
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flailingmonkeynextime: the process of browsing, finding, and installing apps is very important to the usability of any system15:39
nextimeflailingmonkey : harmattan will be released? it is no clear (to me) the future in this path15:39
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flailingmonkeyit will. business managers just like big reveals. but I guess since I never use Nokia Care, I don't care if they would support me15:40
sallesaotimeless_mbp: weird thing is, I can go to via the browser, but I can't ping it.15:41
timeless_mbpping is generally not available15:41
flailingmonkeysallesao: ping isn't always enabled15:41
sallesaoI see15:41
timeless_mbpservers see it as a way to be attacked15:41
flailingmonkeyto pervent people from trying to flood with pings15:42
timeless_mbpso admins tend to drop it15:42
nextimewrong thing15:42
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nextimeenable echo request type ping and maybe just limit it is the right way15:42
sallesaothat doesn't explain why apt-get doesn't work though15:42
nextimeanyway, there is also hping3 that can "ping" over TCP and/or UDP15:43
DocScrutinizer51time for a walk, nobody on the streets :-D15:43
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flailingmonkeydo any people here also follow meego forums?15:49
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Brazzathe wallpapers I showed. are here to download 75+ in 1 zip
achipaDocScrutinizer: here neither. must be because we're playing ball15:50 :)15:51
timeless_mbpBrazza: lot of nice wallpaper ;)15:51
achipaflailingmonkey: meego forum ? what's that ?15:51 is just my 2nd site I visit after;D15:51
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achipa(that was a feeble attempt at humoru)15:52
sejobleh can't flash it neither... device is hardware revision 2001 and that's not supported by the fw15:52
Brazzanot a lot of peeps are there:D15:52
pupnikgood looking ones15:52
BrazzaI like the minimalistic look of it.15:53
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Brazzadoes anyone gonna get that 2400MwAh battery for the n900?15:54
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frals_confusing to have my ircshell on swedish tz15:55
achipaflailingmonkey: ... sooo... your were saying15:55
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flailingmonkeyjust the a wiki page about handset ux was accidentally posted publicly on meego wiki15:55
flailingmonkeywondered if anyone else had noticed15:56
pupniktimeless_mbp: did apple really use Richard Feynman and Albert Einstein pictures in their ads?15:57
pupnikBrazza: yes, but i forgot who15:58
timeless_mbpi don't think so anyway15:58
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ZogGflailingmonkey there was thread about it15:58
ZogGas well why wouldn't it be public as it's opensource15:58
ZogGisn't it?15:58
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pupnikbecause not ready for public release16:00
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pupniktimeless_mbp: will that stress.html *ever* stop loading images?16:00
ZogGpupnik you can't get it anyway, so who cares about wiki16:01
flailingmonkeypupnik: i think its a stress test?16:01
pupnikyeah ;)16:01
ZogGpupnik, give me an url16:01
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ZogGi want to stress out16:01
pupnik14:51 < timeless_mbp> :)16:02
flailingmonkeyI will say that, its better to have involvement, but since thats not a current option, I want them to finish and hand over what they consider "ready"16:02
Maceris there something to make the screen blanking stop?16:03
Macerand to disable that auto dim crap?16:04
timeless_mbpiirc mce.ini can control it16:04
timeless_mbpthere's no ui for it because the ui team refused to allow it16:04
Macerthat sucks16:04
GAN900Hooray for UI teams!16:04
GAN900Also: managers!16:04
lcukpupnik, stress does stop eventually :D16:04
timeless_mbpbut the engineers wanted it, hence mce accepts it :)16:04
Maceri remember m4 had an addon type app for it16:05
timeless_mbpactually, the n900 is one of very few devices which survives stress16:05
* timeless_mbp has killed a number of devices of various shapes and sizes (and platforms) with it16:05
Macertimeless_mbp: so no disabling the dimming and no turning off blanking in the ui at all huh?16:05
Macerand no app that does it? :)16:05
timeless_mbpwell you could watch a movie on a loop16:05
timeless_mbpthe movie player obviously turns off blanking while it's playing a movie :)16:06
pupniktimeless_mbp: next time, warn us16:06
Macerblanking can be turned off with charging16:06
timeless_mbpiirc flash does too when it's playing a movie16:06
timeless_mbpoh yeah, you can plug it in...16:06
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timeless_mbpthat's not always convenient...16:06
Macerno. not really16:07
timeless_mbpthere's a command you can use from xterminal ...16:07
Maceri think the dimming is more annoying16:07
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flailingmonkeyits how I use it at my desk16:07
timeless_mbpbasically mce needs a heartbeat to prevent dimming16:07
Macerthe light sensor thing16:07
timeless_mbpso if you give it one..16:07
Macerrun a cron?16:07
flailingmonkeyah yes, the screen brightness responding to ambient light16:07
Macerflailingmonkey: yes16:08
Macerthat is an irritating feature16:08
MacerStskeeps said there was somewhere in config to turn it off. i didnt see it16:09
ZogGpupnik it has no end16:09
Macermaybe "power saving mode"16:09
th3hateSomeone help me:
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E0xth3hate: i never try the transitions.ini things but check if they are other file16:11
E0xdo a find16:11
E0xsudo gainroot16:11
E0xfind / -name "transitions.ini"16:11
th3hateok will try now16:12
timeless_mbpMacer: yes, you can disable the brightness stuff from the ui16:12
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timeless_mbpand if you speak English, you can use my locales so that you can understand your n90016:12
th3hatefound another file in: opt/usr/share/themes/blackplastictheme-themedir/transitions.ini16:13
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th3hateshould i delete it?16:14
Macertimeless_mbp: ?16:14
DocScrutinizerMacer: xchat has option to disable dimming. simple brightness applet has, as well16:14
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MacerDocScrutinizer: i think power saving in the config is the dimming16:14
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timeless_mbphrm, yeah, i didn't fix the translation of "Power saving mode"16:15
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Maceryou seriously made a locale?16:15
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MacerDocScrutinizer: ah. you meant blanking?16:17
Macerawesome. got it. thanks16:18
Macerit is still auto dimming16:18
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flailingmonkeytimeless_mbp: so you put in better/more accurate descriptions of what does what?16:24
flailingmonkeywhere can I try this out16:25
DocScrutinizer51Macer: no dimming of any kind here, when simplebrightness is set to keep on display16:27
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I think the dynamic brightness may still kick in.16:27
DocScrutinizer51I hope that's not yet another regression of 1.216:27
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: that is - on screens with no white - the backlight cranks down, and the screen goes to white16:27
SpeedEvil(which has unfortunate issues in the sun using it in transflective mode)16:28
SpeedEvil(At least I think that's what I was seeing)16:28
flailingmonkeysounds weird to me SpeedEvil16:28
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: yes, that for sure16:29
SpeedEvilflailingmonkey: In principle with video content - it can save a fair amount of power.16:29
SpeedEvilflailingmonkey: For example - in any slightly dim scene - with the backlight at half of nominal - that can save a _lot_ of power.16:29
flailingmonkeyi see what you mean.16:30
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DocScrutinizer51weird, my ALS doesn't kick in16:30
SpeedEvilI've not seen it in a consistent manner16:30
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RST38hheya VDVsx16:34
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DocScrutinizer51Now that's really nasty. Seems simple brightness app has a new behaviour to adjust screen backlight to ALS only if you have <100% setting16:35
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RST38hheya VDVsx x216:35
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GAN900DocScrutinizer51, ALS?16:36
DocScrutinizer51ambient light16:36
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DocScrutinizer51so in bright sun you set to 100 and then you need to manually dim when ambiet goes low16:37
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VDVsx_N900RST: hey :)16:37
DocScrutinizer51actually it's nice to learn we can disable ALS, but honestly simple brightness is way too simple16:38
DocScrutinizer51it'd need at least 2 dials, maybe 316:38
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DocScrutinizer51minimum brightness, maximum, and ALS multiplicator16:39
DocScrutinizer51aka gamma16:39
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DocScrutinizer51does hildon know about alpha? (transparent "windows")16:45
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Stskeepsto some extent16:45
Stskeepswidgets are actually windows16:45
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DocScrutinizer51yeah, but could I start a app that shows desktop or whatever as background?16:46
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DocScrutinizer51probably not refreshing, ok16:47
frals_should work in theory because you can do live wallpapers which is pretty much that? (ie xsnow)16:48
frals_otoh that is different from just setting the background transparent i assume16:48
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timeless_mbpre zoutube...16:49
timeless_mbpi couldn't get it to really work :(16:49
DocScrutinizer51frals_: whatever, it sounds like what I need. just questionable if it could work for arbitrary background or just desktop16:50
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timeless_mbpoh, and "about" in zoutube claims it's 0.1 even though the package claims 0.2-316:50
timeless_mbpif you're going to have an about, please make the about accurate :)16:50
timeless_mbpotherwise, be a proper maemo app and don't have one :)16:50
DocScrutinizer51I'm pondering about a smart brightness app that allows to look at the 'main' app while sliders for adjusting backlight brightness are almost invisible on the sides of screen16:51
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GAN900timeless_mbp, doesn't Zoutube have a product?16:52
flailingmonkeywho was it that adamently refused to have an About window or have version output at all16:52
* DocScrutinizer51 *hates* apps without about16:52
timeless_mbpGAN900: dunno :)16:52
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DocScrutinizer51flailingmonkey: alarmed?16:54
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flailingmonkeysounds right. i think the dev was fighting with you about that?16:55
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flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer51: what exactly led you to mess up your apt db so badly? :P16:56
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DocScrutinizer51yeah, had a real dispute with Shapeshifter about it :-P16:57
lcukn900gah dentists again16:57
GAN900timeless_mbp, clearly you should figure that out.16:57
GAN900lcukn900, they have those in the UK? :P16:57
DocScrutinizer51flailingmonkey: I didn't. I just was plaing advocatus diaboli16:58
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flailingmonkeyGAN900: no, they keep trying to invade the UK though16:58
lcukn9002g needs improving16:58
flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer51: ah very well. he was just being lazy anyway16:59
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DocScrutinizer51it's really not that hard to get the compile date into the --help or --version output, automatically. Code once and forget17:01
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flailingmonkeyhe just didn't know how to and assumed it couldn't be done17:02
rodaldhi, can someone explain to me how can i update to PR 1.2 by air17:03
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Surfarodald, launch app manager -> updated17:03
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rodaldbut it tells me that i have to conect to a PC and when i try with the PC Suite it gives me an error17:04
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Surfarodald, you probably have some software that has dependency problems17:04
Surfathere was a list of problematic ones on tmo.. let me see if I could find it for you17:04
rodaldand what can i do in that case?17:04
rodaldthank you17:05
Surfaremove problem programs and run update again17:05
flailingmonkeyusually you can update OTA after uninstalling certain apps. HAM really should report specific conflicts17:05
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flailingmonkeycertain games, such as GLtron and openarena are in that list17:05
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Surfatux racer was one17:06
Surfabrain party another17:06
frals_HAM does report conflicts if you actually click details or whatever17:06
Surfabut I'll try to find complete list :)17:06
frals_(did for me anyway)17:06
rodaldhave them both17:06
flailingmonkeyoh I see. it is trying to run apt, apt errors but HAM doesn't actually read what errors happened17:06
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Surfarodald, start by removing those :) they certainly will cause you trouble17:07
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rodaldah ok let me try17:07
supertrampguys - is there some tiny c compiler for maemo?17:07
vldcnstHAM is to be hated.17:07
supertramp(something like tcc)17:07
flailingmonkeyreally? it should tell people to check that conflict list instead of suggesting reflash17:07
supertrampfor ondevice c devel17:08
flailingmonkeysupertramp: i'd look in extras-devel I guess, but don't know off hand17:08
flailingmonkeyfrals_: you saw that during PR1.2 update? I only see that for package installs17:09
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supertrampthere is only gcc-4.2-base17:10
supertrampand gcc is not *tiny* :}17:10
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jacekowskii think your definition of tiny is from 19 century17:10
flailingmonkeyagreed. compiling tcc might not be a huge amount of work, but the people here will certainly help17:11
b-mani've already ran tcc on my N900 :)17:11
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b-manbut is needs quite a bit of work17:12
supertrampb-man: how? :) I'm unable to build it in the scatchbox17:12
pupnik"I statically recompiled the original DOS executable (MAIN.EXE) into GP2X [arm] executable"17:12
b-manpupnik: lol17:12
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b-mansupertramp: i compiled it natively on my device17:12
flailingmonkeypupnik: ....17:13
pupnikflailingmonkey: it's true17:13
pupnikrecompiled a DOS game for arm/linux and hacked it to work17:13
pupniknow available for n900
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pupniki didn't do it, a smart person (m-ht) did17:15
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flailingmonkeyi just read it. I don't even understand how he managed it17:17
* DocScrutinizer51 suggests doing a backup *prior* to removing conflicting apps to enable SSU. Then after upgrade to new FW version you simply restore to get back all the apps you uminstalled prior to upgrade17:18
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kenya888Hi, all :-)17:22
crashanddieok, no cookie from the bank. Apparently it was some temporary funds transfer from my old company for tax purposes, so the money will be gone by midnight :(17:22
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: tztzzz. You really should have done a money transfer *immediately*17:23
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crashanddiewell no, because that I would have had a direct debit of 20 grand with no funds, imagine the fine on that17:24
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: ""ooops sorry, thought it was the credit of a friend that I'm waiting for since 18 months"17:24
kenya888sorry for asking the same again and again. Anyone knows how to contact to debmaster? I'd like to delete a remaining queue of extras auto builder...17:24
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: "oops" doesn't work in the world of banks17:24
crashanddieX-Fade: can you help kenya888 out?17:25
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DocScrutinizeryeah, those suckers17:25
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DocScrutinizermine froze my account and I'm waiting for 3 days now for them to correct that stuff. No money for the weekend it seems17:26
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crashanddiedo you have money on your account?17:26
DocScrutinizerDoc too a week off without dropping a notice, so I run short of meds mid of next week17:26
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DocScrutinizerIsn't life a joy?17:26
kenya888because of the queue, build process don't start even if i upload the newer src package...17:26
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: do you have funds on your account?17:27
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DocScrutinizerI have some few hundered bucks credit17:27
kenya888crashanddie, thanks for pay attention me :-)17:27
flailingmonkeykenya888: X-Fade is who you want to talk to17:27
crashanddiekenya888: X-Fade or failing him, jeremiah foster17:28
crashanddiekenya888: I'm PM'ing you his email address17:28
flailingmonkeydon't think jeremiah's still around17:28
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crashanddieah, true17:29
crashanddiekenya888: don't contact jeremiah then :)17:29
flailingmonkeyand in the world of banks, when the error gets noticed they'll just take the amount out of any of your accounts. the bank never gets screwed :P17:29
kenya888flailingmonkey, thx!!17:30
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kenya888crashanddie, thx!!17:30
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kenya888OK, I understand feremiah have already retired to this job.. X-Fade is the correct person one.17:30
DocScrutinizerseems everybody's having a party, err metings today. So maybe hard to contact X-Fade17:32
supertrampthx guys17:32
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flailingmonkeymaybe they are all getting yelled at for not being secretive enough :P17:32
kenya888DocScrutinizer, oh... the only way is waiting for him on this chatroom...:-P17:33
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DocScrutinizeryeah, probably17:33
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crashanddiekenya888: or you can drop him an email, but IRC is usually more effective17:37
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kenya888crashanddie, i see, I'll try log in to IRC as frequently as possible... All if you remember me and met him on IRC, plz tell him there is a man who want to delete build queue of fremantle auto builder...:-)17:39
crashanddiewhat packages, kenya888?17:41
vldcnstferenc also might be able to help you aswell.17:41
crashanddieyou don't want to delete the whole build queue?17:41
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kenya888crashanddie, it is ibus.17:41
kenya888Ibus 1.3.4-2maemo417:41
kenya888you can see the newer src packages have been already uploaded to auto build from this page...
crashanddieX-Fade: as kenya888 is trying to ask, can you delete the build queue for ibus 1.3.4-2maemo4? Thanks17:42
kenya888crashanddie, thx:-)17:42
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DocScrutinizer~seen X-Fade17:44
infobotx-fade is currently on #maemo (1d 5h 45m 15s) #meego (1d 5h 45m 15s), last said: 'Saviq: Only 1.10 as max.'.17:44
DocScrutinizerdamn, thought there's an idle time17:45
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kenya888Oh... Ok waiting for response from him for a while...:-)17:47
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: awake?17:51
* Stskeeps yawns17:51
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: meeting finished?17:52
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Stskeepswell, i'm finished after a long week17:52
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DocScrutinizerooh, it's Friday. Indeed17:52
ruskieyay watching the slo:usa match on the n90017:52
DocScrutinizerruskie: ola!17:53
* ruskie is happy that it's 2:0 now17:53
ohwhymehow ruskie?17:53
ruskienational tv has a flash streammmm17:53
DocScrutinizerruskie: you tried to have /opt or /usr partition on eMMC once?17:53
ruskieDocScrutinizer, both17:53
ruskiestill have /opt17:53
ruskie/usr is a nogo17:54
ruskierelies on things there at early boot17:54
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crashanddiejust put /usr/bin on rootfs17:55
DocScrutinizerhmm, so they messed it up. Things needed for boot are a nogo in /usr17:55
ruskiesadly yeah17:55
ruskielibs and bins17:55
DocScrutinizerthat's the *whole* meaning of /usr : "not needed for boot"17:55
DocScrutinizernothing else17:55
ruskieso now I have /home /opt and MyDocs17:55
flailingmonkeythere are very clear definitions for directory purposes too17:56
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: no. Move the things that conflict to where they belong. /bin & /sbin17:56
ruskiesadly maemo ignores them17:56
ruskieand /lib17:56
DocScrutinizeryep, and /lib17:57
DocScrutinizervs /usr/lib17:57
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what Nokia thought was the meanng of /usr anyway17:57
ruskieno clue17:57
lcukStskeeps, is meego sidetracking this issue by using flat file system or by actually fixing and ensuring components from /usr arent needed17:58
ruskiebut FHS is rather clear on ti17:58
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* ruskie hopes we win the match17:58
DocScrutinizerruskie: since 197217:58
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DocScrutinizerFHS clear on it17:58
ohwhymehow did germany lose17:59
Stskeepslcuk: no clue, but a big / sounds like an idea..17:59
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lcuknot ideal tho17:59
lcukshould be planned to cope without one17:59
DocScrutinizersuggestion: get an *old* version of a good unix administrator's handbook. like <199018:00
Stskeepsi have one from 198418:01
GAN900DocScrutinizer, yes, what's up?18:01
DocScrutinizerthere you'll read how to set up a linux/unix correctly18:01
lcukDocScrutinizer, why get a book, you are an old unix administrator18:01
DocScrutinizerGAN900: news from qgil?18:01
* ruskie goes back to watching the traffic18:01
GAN900DocScrutinizer, none. :/18:01
DocScrutinizerGAN900: k, thanks18:01
GAN900DocScrutinizer, the N900 is a lie!18:02
GAN900Or something.18:02
flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer: your favorite component is going to be even more prominent18:02
DocScrutinizerhow so?18:03
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DocScrutinizerflailingmonkey: please elaborate, or toss a pointer18:03
flailingmonkeyguidelines suggest that if an app makes any files it should register in tracker and use its db to store the files18:03
flailingmonkeyfor "some upcoming release"18:03
* flailingmonkey admits to nothing18:04
* DocScrutinizer feels like this is THE moment for a walk and afk18:04
DocScrutinizercya, #maemo18:04
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ohwhymethe us scored :o18:05
flailingmonkeyall files get tags too18:05
lcukohwhyme, really? i thought green wasnt picked for their squad today?18:06
GAN900Woo! USA! USA!18:06
* DocScrutinizer thinks about how Nokia is going to patch scp, sftp, and even mass storage, to fulfill that requirement. Insane. LMFAO18:06
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* GAN900 remembers he doesn't care about soccer.18:06
flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer: global searrrrch18:07
lcuki just took a call from soccer to say it doesn't care about you either.  it also says BBBBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ18:07
* DocScrutinizer now knows for sure some dudes at Nokia are out of their minds18:07
flailingmonkeylcuk: ahahahaha18:07
E0xanybody have a good transition.ini file that can share ?18:07
lcukE0x, the default one is quite good18:07
E0xi looking make my n900 feel more fast18:07
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flailingmonkeytransition needs gui config with load/save18:08
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lcuki wanna respray my 90018:08
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flailingmonkeythey are reducing the blur effects for speed18:08
lcukafter seeing Myrtti and her pretty covers on other hardware18:08
E0xlcuk: do ti18:08
E0xdo it*18:08
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lcukjust the bezel would do me i think18:09
lcukso i can tell my devices apart18:09
flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer: this gets even better! this seems to imply that you don't get any filesystem hierarchy (like dirs) at all. just tags18:09
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DocScrutinizerNokia just invented the flat shadow fs18:10
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DocScrutinizerfor quite unclear purpose18:10
flailingmonkeyway of the futuuuure18:10
GAN900I'm just going to call it futbol from now on.18:11
DocScrutinizersorry, feel like puking18:11
DocScrutinizerso cya18:11
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SpeedEvilCoincidentally - /me has been started watching babylon 5.18:12
SpeedEvil(WRT shadow filesystems)18:12
flailingmonkeylooks like cuteexplorer will have new life on meego18:12
flailingmonkeyhahahaha, nice one18:12
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SpeedEvilcuteexplorer is nice.18:12
SpeedEvilI question the 'cut/copy' functionality though18:12
flailingmonkeyits a good start18:13
SpeedEvilalso - it should be possible to add a shortcut to /foo on the desktop18:13
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* DocScrutinizer wanders off singing "I'm killing Kerry Beagle, kill kill kill. And then I'm killing tracker, kill kill kill..."18:16
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flailingmonkeyi wonder how it will handle being exported over USB (connected to laptop)18:20
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SpeedEvilIt won't18:21
SpeedEvilthe filesystem is completely unmounted when used as mass storage18:21
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SpeedEvilIt pretty much has to be18:21
flailingmonkeyI meant, how it will show up on the laptop, if there isn't any directory structure (since you are just using tags)18:23
nomisa broad directory hierarchy, with a subdir for each tag.18:24
nomisrecursively of course.18:24
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SpeedEvillcuk: Respraying with paints that will stick is hard.18:25
SpeedEvillcuk: you could get a mugen battery, for one.18:26
lcukSpeedEvil, sure, but cares seem to cope with spraying18:26
lcukwhat would a mugen help?18:26
flailingmonkeyyou could sand it down18:26
SpeedEvillcuk: If n900 is hugely thick - it's device B.18:26
lcukSpeedEvil, what about a/c/d tho?18:27
SpeedEvillcuk: Cars are not scraped as much - in general as phones.18:27
SpeedEvillcuk: plus - metal can be a better substrate for paint.18:27
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SpeedEvilAnd it can be baked on harder.18:27
lcukthe bezel is metal afaik18:27
timeless_mbp"automatically adjust brightness" or "automatically adjust brightness levels"?18:27
lcukflailingmonkey, that would be a given on the bezel18:27
timeless_mbpthe latter actually does fit...18:28
SpeedEvillcuk: Ihmm - maybe18:28
flailingmonkeywhat is automatically adjusting based on18:28
timeless_mbpdoesn't matter :)18:29
timeless_mbpit's a checkable widget not a help system18:29
timeless_mbpif you want to know what it does, you can: google, ask someone, or experiment18:29
GAN900timeless_mbp, first one.18:30
flailingmonkeyadjusts brightness based on your blood alcohol levels18:30
timeless_mbpGAN900: ok18:31
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E0xcool no need reboot when you change the transition.init file18:33
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cehtehdepends on what transistion you change18:35
lcukE0x, are you using the transitions editor18:35
cehtehsome require a hildon restart18:36
E0xediting the transition.ini file directly18:36
E0xi just don't want add extra-testing repo18:36
E0xi am stick with extra only18:36
cehtehthe editor is not very flexible18:36
lcuklol - so you gainroot and go fscking with system files :D18:37
E0xlcuk: yes  that is righ18:37
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lcukE0x, if you wanted to be uber god - you should attempt to do everything without installing from any repository18:38
E0xyou say that i don't say that18:38
E0xi just say i am stick18:39
E0xnot because i am feel that i am uber god or something is just because take more long time and BW when i refresh18:39
E0xif i want something of extra-testing i maybe will download the .deb18:39
E0xand install it manually18:40
E0x( i don't feel like i need give you a explanation but the it is )18:40
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lcukE0x, chill! i was only poking fun18:43
E0xdon't worry i and fine that don't bother me at all18:44
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E0xlike we say here : mas claridad , mas amistad18:44
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rodaldheeeeelp please my deviced just died, i was uninstalling all the programs to upgrade to PR1.2, try to uninstal a kernel called Enhaced Linux Kernel for power users, it showed couldnt uninstal because couldnt install nokia kernel and then it rebooted and now when i try to turn it on it just gives me the nokia logo then the withe dots, and the screen turns black and it shuts down, it keeps the blue light on wile it turns off18:50
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E0xrodald: you already did a backup ?18:51
E0xof you data ?18:51
E0xjust do the reflash process18:51
rodaldhow do i do that?18:51
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E0xdownload the image
E0xfrom there18:52
E0xwhen say product id need put you imei18:52
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E0xyou can find in attach to the box18:52
E0xof you n90018:52
E0xor inside it18:53
infoboti heard flashing is
rodaldbut how do i download it to the phoe if i cant even turn it on18:53
E0xrodald: download in in the computer18:53
E0xthe reflash is via USB18:53
flailingmonkeyread the link18:53
rodaldok thank you18:53
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flailingmonkeyrofl, US tied, by bullshit18:56
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rodaldok im in a page that shows me files, size,, brief description,and note what do i do now?18:57
E0xneed download a vanilla one19:00
E0xand EMMC one19:00
E0xand they need match the version of course19:01
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b-manhmm.... they just merged a troll thread with the PXS4ALL Maemo Edition theread... :P19:01
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E0xrodald: sorry a MR0 one and VANILLA_EMMC one19:01
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rodaldcan i use this one RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin, its this the vanilla?19:03
E0xexample i flash my with two: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin19:04
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E0xrodald: just look for the lasted version of both19:05
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Sebas1any knows if there is the uber twitter app like gwibber comp. with maemo?19:05
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E0xrodald: no private19:07
E0xjust follow the link19:07
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rodaldok thank you ill try it19:07
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E0xrodald: read carefull19:10
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brazzaanyone tried the new ovi suite?19:14
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DocScrutinizer51rodald: you don't need to flash eMMC19:16
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DocScrutinizer51rodald: you don't need to flash eMMC19:18
DocScrutinizer51just download the COMBINED_10.201019:18
DocScrutinizer51hmm, he's gone19:19
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flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer51: you're still on 1.1.1 right?19:45
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Shaan7Hello, I'm trying to run my Qt app on my N900, when compiling my Qt project, should I be using FREMANTLE_ARMEL or FREMANTLE_X86 ? Whats the difference?19:49
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Shaan7sorry to mention, compiling in scratchbox19:50
Shaan7s/to/forgot to :P19:50
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RST38hA new bill in the US Senate would, if passed, create a "kill switch," allowing for the government to shut down or control parts of the internet.19:51
timeless_mbpShaan7: the n900 is armel19:51
* RST38h is so tired of satanic laughter that he resorts to evil snickering now19:51
timeless_mbpthe x86 bit is for doing testing on a normal pc19:51
timeless_mbpw/o emulation (of the cpu)19:51
* timeless_mbp leaves19:51
GAN900RST38h, but it's about hope and new beginnings . . . and hope!19:52
Shaan7timeless_mbp: ok, so If I build a project on X86, it won't work on the device, I've to build it on armel, right ?19:52
timeless_mbpRST38h: i believe it was supposed to be scoped to gov controlled parts19:52
Shaan7timeless_mbp: thanks :)19:52
* Milhouse thinks the US government tests their technology on the domain...19:52
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RST38hGAN900: Obviously. I definitely hope to see this antiutopia to its logical conclusion.19:53
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MilhouseOnto a more serious subject, USA robbed in the World Cup by the way - shocking referee decision :(19:53
flailingmonkeywow. meego went with using bugzilla for all feature requests19:53
RST38hNext: Indentured servitude for people unable to pay out their debts.19:53
flailingmonkeythat was total bullcrap call19:54
RST38h(is that economically desirable btw?)19:54
RST38hflailing: what is wrong with bugzilla?19:54
flailingmonkeysorry, i meant in the slo:usa game19:54
Milhouseflailingmonkey: exciting though, for a neutral :)19:55
flailingmonkeyStskeeps: oo, shiny19:56
MilhouseOT, but is anyone planning on producing a MeeGo version for Joggler?19:56
RST38hwhat is joggler?19:56
StskeepsMilhouse: already made, but waiting for EMGD release in july19:57
flailingmonkeyRST38h: by making a Product for the requests, developers don't need to get spammed about feature request arguments. thats why it will be ok :)19:57
MilhouseStskeeps - excellent, cheers fella, looking forward to it :)19:57
Stskeepsit's like my 3rd priority project, after meego on n900, n8x019:58
MilhouseWould be really sweet to have a properly working OS on the thing, bought two just for this purpose!19:58
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lcukEndometrial Glandular Dysplasia (EmGD) ??19:58
MilhouseRST38h: see that link, it's an Intel Atom (1.3Ghz I think) based 800x480 (or maybe 800x400) touchscreen device. GMA500 graphics.19:59
Stskeeps.. capactive, too20:00
MilhouseIdeal little x86 dev/test box for MeeGo handheld - and only £50 each in the UK.20:00
crashanddieMilhouse: is that the O2 stuff?20:00
MilhouseStskeeps - yep, although I can't stand capacitive, am I the only person who uses the back of his finger nail to touch the screen, needless to say this doesn't work on capacitive screens...20:00
lcukEMGd - electromyographic activity of the diaphragm??20:00
Milhousecrashanddie: yep, O2 Joggler (based on the OpenPeak tablet)20:01
lcukno milhouse you arent the only person20:01
Stskeepslcuk: embedded graphics drivers20:01
lcukthat helps, ta20:01
lcuksomeone already has meego on joggler tho dont they20:01
* lcuk seems to recall it being demoed20:01
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SpeedEvilMilhouse: there were limited stocks available at 50 - I think it's back up to 10020:02
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flailingmonkeyresistive multi touch is what I yern for. then pressure sensitivity like wacom20:02
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lcukmulti layer should suffice for that20:03
MilhouseSpeedEvil: Possibly, I bought mine when they first went on sale at £50, then they went back up to £100 then I believe O2 did a second round at £50... no idea what O2 are up to, I got the impression they were trying to shift all their stock as they were selling them so cheap. Everyone I knew bought them mainly to put something other than the O2 software on them!20:03
lcukcapacitive with a resistive layer underneath20:03
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StskeepsMilhouse: :P20:03
lcuklike a sandwich made of awesome20:03
Milhouseta :)20:03
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Milhousebookmarked :)20:03
Stskeepsand but it's down temporarily20:03
MilhouseI did try Ubuntu, and Android but neither were very usable - interesting but not usable.20:04
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Milhousethat dvb-t demo is cool though!20:04
GAN900Yo, Milhouse.20:04
Milhousehi general20:05
GAN900flailingmonkey, then you want Stantum20:06
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GAN900We have a long tradition of bad ref decisions in US sports, so it's OK. :P20:06
Stskeepsnetbook ux though20:07
* GAN900 thinks the MLB is out to keep the Rays out of first place this season.20:07
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MilhouseYeah, really looking forward to the handheld UX - want to use my Joggler as an alpha test unit before putting MeeGo on my N900!20:07
* flailingmonkey thinks GAN900 is probably right :P20:07
flailingmonkeystantum would be cool, but I wonder if phones are going to be where that tech debuts. if used solidly it could be a huge draw20:09
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MilhouseSadly resistive has such a bad rep with the tech bogs such as engadget...20:10
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GAN900and people are stupid20:10
GAN900and RDFs are super effective20:10
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infoboti heard rdf is Reality Distortion Field, the device Steve Jobs uses to make apple products look more shiny than they really are20:10
flailingmonkeylove it20:10
MilhouseWould love something like the Stantum tech but I think Nokia have caved into the pressure and are going capacitive because it's what is perceived to be better although it has all sorts of drawbacks (like not working with the back of my fingers)20:11
GAN900Milhouse, I was half tempted to order the iPhone 4 with that tasy Cortex A9 and that IPS 960x640 display.20:11
GAN900Nokia is a stupid company20:11
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GAN900But capacitive and iOS kill it for me20:11
flailingmonkeyI think stantum would be nice on something like N900 but I don't know if it would be able to make the most of the tech20:12
SwedeMikeI prefer capacitive.20:12
MilhouseGAN900: You and me both... it's so tempting, but I can't stand the Apple policy. If the company wasn't run by such a complete arse hat I'd by one in the blink of an eye.20:12
GAN900That thing with Maemo and virtual input that doesn't suck, though. . . .20:12
Surfaso nokia is stupid but apple is more stupid?20:12
MilhouseSurfa - different kinds of stupid :)20:12
GAN900Surfa, Apple's anything but stupid20:12
SurfaGAN900, ios doesn't make them stupid?20:13
Surfawhat makes company stupid20:13
MilhouseApple: Great execution, insanely restricive policies... Nokia: Insanely bad execution, pretty open policies20:13
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MilhouseSurfa: OK maybe not stupid, but Jobs is a knbo20:13
lcuklook around - we have people working towards porting linux onto different hardware20:13
infobotMilhouse meant: Surfa: OK maybe not stupid, but Jobs is a knob20:13
lcukwhos to say we cant just use apple hardware?20:13
SurfaMilhouse, depends on what kind of an execution you measure20:13
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SpeedEvilMilhouse: I think it's an attempt to reate a buzz around them - there were quite limited stocks for the second batch of 5020:14
greenflywhy would you want to? because the screen is slightly higher res?20:14
MilhouseSurfa: Look back over the last 5 years of Maemo.20:14
greenflywait a month for all the other products that have the same hardware specs or better20:14
greenflyI mean didn't iPhone4 finally get a 5mpixel camera?20:14
SurfaMilhouse, many measurements would show that apple execution suck big time in many areas :)...20:14
lcukgreenfly, im thinking even the older iphones20:14
lcukor n97s or any other smaller hardware20:14
greenflylcuk: for me personally I need a keyboard20:14
MilhouseSurfa: Compared to Nokia, Apple execute flawlessly EVERY time.20:15
lcuktogether in maemo we have done more work and know a metric shitte tonne about making things work in low ceilings20:15
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lcukgreenfly, i do too but just look on maemo, people want virtual keyboards for portrait stuff20:15
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SurfaMilhouse, not really, still depends on what you would measure20:15
lcukso having a hw keyboard isnt always it20:15
greenflyI'm just saying for me20:15
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MilhouseSurfa: Sales, hype, end user happiness?20:16
greenflyI use this as a portable computer, not as a phone20:16
lcuksure - i didnt see n800 as a real computer20:16
lcukit was only when 810 came out that i changed mind20:16
MilhouseSurfa: Whereas with Nokia it's broken promises, misery, failed deliveries etc.20:16
greenflyand when the next gen comes out with presumably 1Ghz+, I'll definitely want a keyboard20:16
SurfaMilhouse, that's also not tha bipolar.. i for example wouldn't be happy at all as an end user20:16
lcukoooh aghz race20:16
greenflyssh sessions, irc sessions, and mutt all suck w/ a virtual keyboard20:16
MilhouseSurfa: Are you new here by any chance? :)20:16
w00t_anyone know much about upstart\/etc/event.d to get things to start at boot time?20:16
SurfaMilhouse, i can't see relation to other discussion20:17
w00t_googling around, I found similar to:
MilhouseSurfa: Spend enough time hanging around this project and you'll come round to my way of thinking, I promise it20:17
w00t_but that doesn't seem to cut it.20:17
greenflyw00t_: look at the example scripts that are already in there20:17
greenflyw00t_: the syntax is pretty straightforward20:17
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greenflyyou just find the other upstart script that you want to use to trigger yours20:18
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MilhouseSurfa: Just take Ovi Store as one recent example! ;)20:18
lcukw00t_, does /usr exist then?20:18
DrIDKHi! I m drawing inside a QListWidget using QItemDelegate... I change the row width... But Now the scrolling seems slows... Any idea how resolve it ?20:18
w00t_lcuk: yes20:18
DrIDKrow height I mean20:18
lcukdoes your app run at all? (debug / echo lines to check20:18
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w00t_lcuk: yes, when I run it manually, it works20:18
SurfaMilhouse, no no you got it wrong.. i don't talk about this single project, but hw, marketing, software, details, components all in general20:18
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lcukreplace rotatedaemon with echo "wtf" >/stuff.txt20:19
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lcukand see if stuff is there after boot20:19
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SurfaMilhouse, in some areas apple is better, buut there are many areas that apple really sucks in20:19
MilhouseSurfa: OK, and you're saying that Apple execute no worse than Nokia?20:19
lcukjust to confirm that everything is accessible20:19
lcukwhat deps does your app have?20:19
SurfaMilhouse, depends on what area execution we talk about :) some areas yes, some areas no20:19
w00t_lcuk: note that hildon-desktop is in /usr/ too, so if it wasn't mounted by then, h-d would never start :P20:19
w00t_lcuk: just X/Qt20:20
MilhouseSurfa: I'm sure they do, but the end users RAVE about Apple - end user satisfaction is waaaay high. On this project that's far from the truth, and yet for years we've been promised change that would go towards improving the situation and it's never happened.20:20
SurfaMilhouse, both have pros and cons20:20
lcukw00t_, just try that simple little tweak just to remove any ambiguity - once you know that works you can move on20:20
lcukbut if its not being triggered you can look elsewhere20:20
SurfaMilhouse, imo most of apple hype is just marketing bs and people driving each other for apple praising :)20:20
GAN900Nokia understands neither their customers nor the market.20:20
SurfaMilhouse, i do have apple products too, so i kind of know what i'm talking about20:21
GAN900Surfa, look at all of the amazing devices they've brought to market (E70, etc.) that disappear right away.20:21
SurfaMilhouse, but of course, thats only my personal opinion20:21
MilhouseSurfa: Maybe, but when a new product is announced it arrives on time (more or less), features work as expected, the services are there to back it all up... whereas with Nokia it's delays, buggy features, and Ovi Store.20:21
GAN900Apple knows their customers and they know their market.20:21
GAN900Nokia flails around like a 2-year-old having a tantrum.20:22
SurfaGAN900, i have no idea what are you talking about or what i should respond20:22
SurfaMilhouse, sure, nokia isn't flawless company, that's not the point, but neither is apple :)20:22
MilhouseOvi Store is a complete disaster, where's Peter to manage the expections? I twittered him but surprise surprise have had no response...20:23
greenflythe main thing Nokia is missing compared to Apple is arrogance and hubris20:23
greenflyplenty of people praise Apple simply because they fear they'll look ignorant if they don't agree with their design decisions20:23
MilhouseSurfa: I'm not suggesting Apple is flawless, but Nokia balls it up far more often as far as I can see, in fact it's pretty much guaranteed.20:23
w00t_ hmm.20:23
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Milhousegreenfly: Plenty of arrogance within Nokia - that's partly how they got into this mess by completely dismissing touchscreen devices. I think arrogance is something they learn in Finnish schools. :)20:24
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SurfaMilhouse, well, let's hope nokia is improving it's ways20:25
greenflyMilhouse: the arrogance doesn't transfer out to the customer, though20:25
Surfathey do have given signs that they know that everything is not right20:25
lcukw00t_, so its not being daemonised?20:25
greenflypeople aren't saying "Well Nokia chose resistive displays, it must be the exact right choice"20:25
Milhousegreenfly: Hmm, not sure about that - some on the council may disagree20:25
* lcuk never used status/stop/start commands b420:26
flailingmonkeyits very difficult to compare nokia and apple as companies20:26
flailingmonkeyapple is highly focused on a small number of products20:26
flailingmonkeynokia has grown to the point that communication is its huge problem20:26
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Surfagreenfly, i prefer resistive displays20:26
greenflySurfa: plenty of people do20:27
Surfai wouldn't like to have capacitive20:27
Milhouseflailingmonkey: agreed, people do often forget the breadth of nokias product range, though I thought they were trying to reduce that (in terms of new products each year?)20:27
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greenflybut plenty of people simply like capacitive because that's what apple chose20:27
greenflyand they fear questioning it20:27
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Milhousegreenfly: yeah, engadget has a lot to answer for!20:27
greenflybecause, again, of the arrogance Apple puts out WRT their design decisions20:27
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Surfagreenfly, well, let's see how long that apple bs continues..20:27
greenflyremember when it was a feature that the iPod was "simple" and couldn't do things like show your photos or video?20:28
greenflyie. it could only play music?20:28
Milhousegreenfly: nah, I think like any other company they just big up their products - of course they're going to say their design choice is the right choice.20:28
Surfapersonal experiences wouldn't give much future for that either :)20:28
greenfly"Genius! Apple is right! Simplicity!"20:28
greenflyand that lasted just long enough for apple to catch up to the previous-gen mp3 players with the next iPod that could show photos20:28
greenflybut everyone quickly dropped the whole simplicity thing20:28
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greenflybecause of Apple spun it20:28
greenflysame thing could apply today to multi-tasking20:29
Milhouse"Multi-tasking done the right way" (ducks)20:29
greenflyheh, almost beat me to it20:29
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* lcuk looks at the channel name and rolls eyes about subject20:29
MilhouseThe thing is, there's an element of truth in what Apple say - just enough to make it hard to argue with.20:29
greenflyso anyway, Nokia doesn't sell their stuff the same way20:29
Milhousegreenfly: No, but maybe they should?20:29
greenflypeople don't fear others will think they are stupid if they disagree w/ nokia20:30
flailingmonkeyguys, take it to #nokiavsapplerants ok20:30
lcukthat i agree with20:30
greenflyfair enough20:30
Milhouse"Retina display" - sheer brilliance.20:30
MilhouseSo what we gonna talk about now? ;-)20:31
flailingmonkeymods on tmo also need to have official policy of directing those with complaints about Nokia to
flailingmonkeywas there a code name for the OS after harmattan?20:32
greenflyme personally, I don't have a complaint, I prefer the n900 and think it's awesome20:32
MilhouseIs a peer of f.n.c?20:32
lcuki know what i would like to talk about20:32
lcukbut im off, tis time for tea20:32
greenflyI hope they stick to having a hardware keyboard20:32
flailingmonkeyit is not20:32
Milhouseflailingmonikey: shame, a small regular presence would help an awful lot.20:33
flailingmonkeyNokia does not run tmo, but they donate some servers and possibly help with costs20:33
Milhouseflailingmonkey: the regular disappearing acts for long periods of time don't help20:33
Milhouseflailingmonkey: but's it's the semi-official first point of contact for most Maemo device owners...20:34
flailingmonkeyit doesn't make sense to expect Nokia to answer questions on Maemo forum. especially when they have their own site for that20:34
flailingmonkeyI believe should have more latitude in releasing information20:34
Milhousef.n.c is just another user forum - rarely is there any official input from nokia that I can tell. in fact there is more on t.m.o, it's just that it's pretty random and when the sh1t hit's the fan it's noticeable by it's absence.20:35
Milhousejust check the 50+ page Ovi Store udpate thread20:35
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DrGrovHello everyone20:36
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flailingmonkeythats a good example. group and even Nokia's maemo devices group have no influence on Ovi team20:36
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flailingmonkeybut Ovi team will hear about threads on
DrGrovHow can it be that the 'appdownloader' is not working very well? It is not refreshing for me. It keeps freezing up when trying to fetch the repositories listing.20:36
MilhouseNo influence maybe, but since it's impacting their devices surely they can pass the message along or just say "hey guys, ovi team are aware of the issue blah blah". Instead, silence.20:37
flailingmonkeywhy 50 pages are on tmo, is because no one has told them, clearly, to go to nokia forum20:37
flailingmonkeyits too big a company for that20:37
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Milhouseflailingmonkey: too big? this is their bread and butter that isn't working...20:37
PhonicUKhey all20:37
greenflyMilhouse: don't know how much bread or butter they really made off the n90020:37
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flailingmonkeyMilhouse: you have a skewed perspective20:38
PhonicUKanyone having problems with the Ovi store?20:38
greenflyseems they'd give priority to symbian20:38
Milhousegreenfly: probably margarine... but if they can't get their services to work reliably, they've got no hope20:38
DrGrovIs the Ovi Store actually worth getting working well? I have not found much useful there of late...20:38
Milhouseflailingmonkey: nah, years of watching nokia from afar :)20:38
flailingmonkeyand they do. and if symbian users have problem with ovi, they'd go to f.n.c20:38
greenflysomeone higher up was probably sold the line that if you use something Open Source, "the community" will magically fix things20:38
PhonicUKah nm i was using a custom user agent20:39
greenflysorta like the elves that patch your shoes while you sleep20:39
Milhouseflailingmonkey: i've used f.n.c. in the past - waste of time (problem with a Nokia N85)20:39
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DrGrovNokia keeps making up nice little plans for all kind of services but eventually they are not either working properly or not reliable20:39
Milhouseflailingmonkey: there's a shed load more N900/Maemo users on t.m.o., it's an officially monitored forum so we've been told so they should be aware of the problems... posting an update wouldn't hurt.20:40
flailingmonkeybut whos responsible for the update? there is no real stakeholder involvement in tmo from the rest of nokia, and a lot of the threads there address them, and not maemo team20:41
MilhouseI do agree, that f.n.c. may be the official forum, and it may be worth posting something there but I would be a lone N900 user with few others to also post and raise it as a serious problem, while a 50+ page thread exists on t.m.o.20:41
MilhouseWhich forum would you monitor to guage the success of N900 Ovi Store?20:42
flailingmonkeyyou wouldn't be if those threads could be moved to an appropriate place on f.n.c20:42
MilhouseSure, with single sign-on?20:42
flailingmonkeysomething to ask reggie (i think?) perhaps, or even being able to use the same account20:42
MilhouseAsking people to register on f.n.c. is a barrier to entry20:42
flailingmonkeyi agree20:43
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Milhousewhy is it even necessary? just ask someone from f.n.c. to monitor t.m.o. (if they don't already, we've been told it's monitored)20:43
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flailingmonkeybetter if they could move threads from tmo to fnc :P20:43
Milhouseor just a link maybe from f.n.c. to t.m.o.20:44
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w00t_found my problem, needed to export DISPLAY=:0.0 it seems..20:49
MilhouseIt's not f.n.c. I was thinking of, it's - the discussions forum is a pure user-to-user forum so pretty useless on the whole.20:49
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flailingmonkeyaha, always that pesky display20:49
Milhousebut it's designed for end users, while f.n.c. is oriented more towards the developer.20:50
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flailingmonkeystill, it would be a bandaid. I would not be surprised if there is not much help from f.n.c. it is still pointless to have on tmo20:51
Milhouseonly because Nokia post only when it suits them, never when there is a problem (which has always been the case - head in the sand, ignore the problem until it goes away)20:52
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flailingmonkeythe communication problem is a major one for Nokia, and not because they hate their customers20:53
MilhouseI know, but it's been a problem for years!20:53
MilhouseNobody would expect the situation to improve over a period of months, but after years of promises that it will change and... still nothing? gets a bit frustrating!20:54
flailingmonkeyits a common problem for large companies. it requires taking risk and initiative, and many who work in large companies do not want to "rock the boat"20:54
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MilhouseYeah well, it's clearly not working20:55
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greenflyMilhouse: it's worked so far20:55
MilhouseOK, it's not working anymore20:55
greenflythey did the same thing w/ the previous N series and people still bought the latest20:55
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greenflyit's just a matter of setting the right expectations20:55
MilhousePeople have alternatives - they're voting with their wallets.20:56
Venemohi guys20:56
flailingmonkeyApple is much smaller, and that gives them an advantage.20:56
greenflypresumably when the next N tablet is released many of the same complainers will buy that too20:56
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w00t_evening Venemo20:57
GAN900Kill them all!20:57
* GAN900 coughs.20:57
greenflybecause the alternatives still (IMO) suck20:57
Venemohow come that I have set "Update automatically" in date&time, but still it is not accurate20:57
flailingmonkeyNokia is still selling N900s too. they could do better, but when the status quo is alright, its hard to convince managers to take more risk20:57
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MilhouseMaybe, maybe not - MeeGo will be available from others. The great thing about MeeGo is that even if Nokia goes down the toilet, it will survive.20:57
w00t_Venemo: timezone correct too?20:58
MilhouseAnd the markets are slowly turning against Nokia, so change is necessary - the people that matter (stockholders, finance industry) are growing as tired of Nokia as some of us!20:58
flailingmonkeyI would say that a goal for Nokia is to be more visibile in standing behind their products through their entire lifecycle20:59
pupnikI think N8 looks top of the heap for those who want a solid camera, movie player, video cam + phone20:59
MilhouseAnyway, my mood hasn't been helped by having two bugs closed in b.m.o. because an anonymous develper didn't even understand the problem - something else that was supposed to change, but hasn't.21:00
Milhousepupnik: yeah, apart from it crashing a lot (apparently, according to recent previews)21:00
flailingmonkeyanonymous, as in a Nokian, or what?21:00
Milhouseflailingmonkey: yes, Andre acts as proxy for the developers21:00
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Milhouseone of the long term problems with the maemo bugzilla is the lack of any meaningful public involvement from nokia developers (there are two or three that do what they can, but again it's a bit random)21:02
pupnikMilhouse: yes some software has these things called "bugs" during development.  Before release.21:02
Milhousepupnik: I know, you just said "solid" :)21:03
Milhousepupnik: Or is that because it's made from aluminium? ;)21:03
flailingmonkeyhe meant you can hold it in your hands, without a container :P21:03
flailingmonkeysomething could have done better was secure a liason from Ovi, instead of overloading Maemo Devices Nokians21:04
flailingmonkeythey probably still should. the f.n.c. has no sections for Ovi+Maemo either21:06
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Venemow00t_: yes, timezone is correct21:14
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lcukhow many devices can play well on a single access point?21:16
lcukand similar - has anyone ever looked at how many can play in adhoc mode21:16
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Stskeepsonly insane people use a network of adhoc devices21:17
Milhouselcuk: 254?21:17
flailingmonkeyis adhoc stable on N900 yet?21:17
lcukits been stable for ages21:17
lcukMilhouse, does it actually scale that far21:17
Milhouselcuk: probably depends on the horsepower of you access point21:17
zashMilhouse: adhoc .. accesspoint21:18
lcukyeah, but once connected im not thinking highbandwidth21:18
Milhouselcuk: ah but you first asked about an access point :) no idea about ad-hoc21:18
lcukzash, 2 different questions21:18
lcuktho related21:18
lcukadhoc works on buses21:18
fralslcuk: on a single ap i would have to go with "a lot"21:18
lcukaps work for home21:18
lcukfrals sure21:19
Milhouselcuk: what about taxis and trains?21:19
lcukGAN900, ping21:19
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digitalsurgeonany way to set wallpapers in maemo ?21:21
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lcukdigitalsurgeon, sure just edit desktop and set a different wallpaper21:22
digitalsurgeonthrough API21:22
DocScrutinizer~seen vdvsx21:22
infobotvdvsx <~Valerio@Maemo/community/contributor/VDVsx> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 1m 48s ago, saying: 'MohammadAG51, hey'.21:22
DocScrutinizer~seen jebba21:22
infobotjebba <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22d 17h 30m 40s ago, saying: 'perhaps just a dbus command will do it'.21:22
lcukDocScrutinizer, i know valerio isnt online - but i saw GAN900 floating around recently21:23
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DocScrutinizerprobably busy with wordcount err worldcup21:24
DocScrutinizerand jebba is almost nonexistent for maemo recently21:25
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kW_Hello! Does anybody know where to disable the "automatic SMS" sent to nokia when initially starting the N900 with a SIM inserted?21:26
GNU\caus11chi! i'm trying to forward a port on my n900 using ssh -D 1080 telephone, but connections using the port won't work21:26
DocScrutinizerso we're rather hitting lower limit for ops on devel21:26
E0xGNU\caus11c: forward port ?21:27
flailingmonkeykW_: try starting with SIM removed, going to MyNokia, unsubscribing, shutting down and inserting SIM21:27
flailingmonkeydo we think that works?21:27
E0xthat look the setting for do ssh tunneling21:27
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GNU\caus11cyes, it is the tunneling setting21:28
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DocScrutinizerkW_: flailingmonkey: see wiki. it's all in there21:28
E0xGNU\caus11c: you config you browser for use sock proxy21:28
DocScrutinizerflailingmonkey: no, that method won't suffice21:28
E0xand to that port 108021:28
GNU\caust1ci use this method quite often, but it won't work with the n90021:29
flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer: could you add a MyNokia factoid to the wiki page?21:29
E0xGNU\caust1c: is the n900 connected to internet ?21:29
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DocScrutinizerflailingmonkey: you mean if I could add a factoid with wikipage to infobot?21:29
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flailingmonkeyaye aye21:31
GAN900lcuk, pong?21:31
DocScrutinizer~MyNokia is a digital robbery courtesy Nokia, or
infobotDocScrutinizer: okay21:31
flailingmonkeydoes anyone using irssi have it setup to alert them if their nick is used in a message?21:32
flailingmonkey*irssi on a N90021:32
DocScrutinizer~MyNokia is also
povbotBug 10366: MyNokia SMS sent after update without any action from the user21:33
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer21:33
infobotsomebody said mynokia was a digital robbery courtesy Nokia, or, or
povbotBug 10366: MyNokia SMS sent after update without any action from the user21:33
DocScrutinizernow I just need to make povbot output ~mynokia :-P21:33
lcukGAN900, <<< #maemo-devel21:33
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GNU\caust1cE0x: maybe i should use another way, i'm trying to use el-cheapo tethering without using iptables and settings routes etc. is there an easy way? network connection over usb is already working21:35
DocScrutinizerGNU\caust1c: talk to SpeedEvil21:35
E0xGNU\caust1c: settings routes ?21:35
SpeedEvil0th cut is to use sshd as a socks proxy21:35
GNU\caust1cSpeedEvil: thats what i'm trying to do21:36
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LiraNunamy N900 3G reception seems low lately21:41
Venemoany ideas why my N900's system time is inaccurate even though I have the "Update automatically" option set?21:42
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flailingmonkeyHow inaccurate21:42
GNU\caust1cwell, i do not have a ubuntu system which pops up tethering wizzards :)21:42
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flailingmonkeya multiple of 30 minutes or?21:42
E0xGNU\caust1c: if you have gnome is teh same21:43
GNU\caust1ci dont have any desktop environment21:43
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kW_I experience the "Operation temporarily disabled due to low memory" error message although I have 19GB free on my rootfs... why does this error happen anyway?21:47
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E0xSpeedEvil: so i can't use n900 as socks proxy ?21:50
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LiraNunaanyone else is having bad 3G reception?21:53
LiraNunalast 4 days I was in LA for E3, and the 3G reception was very very poor, where an iphone always got 3G at 5 bars21:53
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: everybody has occasional low signal for 3G21:53
LiraNunaI'm speaking 5 days of low signal21:54
AntiPuddingi need a chinese translator for webcam21:54
fralsLiraNuna: having thousands more ppl than usually on the same tower usually makes a difference21:54
LiraNunain reception?21:54
lcukfrals, he said the other device coped wel hmm21:54
fralsi assumed he didnt have the iphone with him this time21:55
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: that's absolutely like asking your car mechanic via telephone about how to fix that 'clckchrrrkclck" from behind21:55
LiraNunathe hype-phone was my friend's21:55
LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, I was I could get more info21:55
lcukperhaps hte fix for ihpone was to disable lower bars :D21:55
LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, but the phone kept me on edge21:55
lcukand i cant type21:55
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LiraNunaI tried getting in here to ask and help me debug21:56
LiraNunabut whenever I got 3.5G, the connection didn't last for more than 2 minutes21:56
LiraNunaI have the same problem at home too21:56
lcukright, so its not just a 3g area21:57
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: depends on where you are, which provider you're using, the weather (really! no kidding), occasional problems in the BTS, and a shitload of other parameters21:57
lcukits a 3.5g area - but connection to that isnt as widespread21:57
lcukso its keep trying to upgrade to 3.5g21:57
lcukbut having to then fall back perhaps?21:57
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LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, weather in LA was very very clear - not a single cloud in the sky21:58
LiraNunaagain, the hype-phone had no trouble getting 3G21:58
DocScrutinizerdid it use same provider as you did?21:58
LiraNunawell no21:59
LiraNunabut when I got 3.5G I got 500kbps no problem21:59
lcukLiraNuna, did iphone get 3.5g?21:59
LiraNunait just kept dropping21:59
LiraNunalcuk, I don't think it supports HSPA+21:59
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LiraNunaanyone else is having reception issues?21:59
DocScrutinizeryes, frequently.22:00
lcuki only have problem connecting sat in a single seat in the dentist waiting room22:00
lcuksignal drops to 1 bar of 2g and everything vanishes22:00
lcukbut everywhere else its strong22:00
lcukeven on the next seat along :D22:00
konfooit would not surprise me if the iphone was fudging signal strength22:00
DocScrutinizersame here in my pub22:00
lcukmines caused by proximity to xray machine probably22:01
DocScrutinizerwell maybe22:01
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konfoothe n900 reception for me in LA is muc better than the iphone ever was22:02
DocScrutinizerthere might be a massive steel plate burried in the wall22:02
LiraNunathere's people like that22:02
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SpeedEvilE0x: I diddn't say that.22:04
E0xSpeedEvil: i am asking you22:04
SpeedEvilE0x: ah22:04
SpeedEvilE0x: I've never used uusb networking.22:04
E0xthat kind of chep thering is not posible ?22:04
SpeedEvilE0x: In principle, it's possible, as is much.22:05
GNU\caust1cSpeedEvil: any idea why it isn't working here?22:05
SpeedEvilGNU\caust1c: Because nokia hates you.22:05
E0xthat is what i thought22:05
SpeedEvilE0x: I note that typing the appropriate 'start ppp' invocation into pnatd when sshd into the phone works.22:06
DocScrutinizerkW_: congrats to 19GB free on rootfs. You are outperforming everyone by a factor of 80 at least22:06
SpeedEvilMy ssh-fu is weak.22:06
SpeedEvilE0x: It should be quite possible to hook pppd to ssh to pnatd and tether over that22:06
kW_DocScrutinizer: well, apparently, this does not help22:06
SpeedEvilE0x: So you're tethering over wifi22:06
DocScrutinizerkW_: please do a "df -h /" in xterm22:07
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SpeedEvilbc -l22:07
SpeedEvilI should open my eyes more often22:07
kWDoes anybody know where "strace" can be found (e.g. in which repository?)22:07
SpeedEvilkW: tool22:08
SpeedEvilkW: tools probably22:08
DocScrutinizerkW: tools repo22:08
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DocScrutinizeranyway, even strace won't give you more than 100MB free space on root, and that'd be even awesome amount of free22:09
kWDocScrutinizer+SpeedEvil: thank you22:09
DocScrutinizer19GB free is MyDocs22:10
kWDocScrutinizer: well, you just need to move root to one of the eMMC partitions...22:10
SpeedEvilIt's in one of these repos22:10
kWSpeedEvil: thank you :-)22:10
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kWSpeedEvil: "deb iphone/apps non-free" is a joke, isn't it?22:11
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DocScrutinizerbtw you know red-pill mode resurrected?22:13
kWwhat is red-pill mode?22:13
DocScrutinizerjust in case you'd like to use HAM to do things like installing strace22:13
DocScrutinizeror .deb you downloaded22:14
GNU\caust1cis there a manual somewhere how to configure tethering manually?22:14
DocScrutinizerkW: it's basically the expert mode of HAM22:14
nextimethe mobilehotspot package set the wifi in ad-hoc mode22:14
valdynGNU\caust1c: manual? for what?22:15
DocScrutinizerhmm, what else could it do?22:15
nextimeis there any particular reason to don't set it to be a real ap?22:15
valdynGNU\caust1c: or are you not talking about usb tethering?22:15
DocScrutinizerchip won't support it22:15
GNU\caust1ci am talking about usb tethering22:15
valdynGNU\caust1c: it just works, your pc just needs to use the modem ( =n900 )22:16
nextimeDocScrutinizer: mumble, by setting it manually with iwconfig it seem to b working22:16
nextimenot yet really tryed it anyway22:16
* DocScrutinizer shrugs22:16
DocScrutinizerI could be wrong here22:16
GNU\caust1cvaldyn: thanks22:16
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lcukdo we have time lapse apps pre built for maemo?22:16
SpeedEvilOh - yes22:17
lcuksupposing i wanted to take a photo every30 seconds?22:17
SpeedEvillcuk: I had some stupid script to do that with gstreamer22:17
DocScrutinizerno SO stupid22:17
lcuki dont want some stupid script - im thinking properly packaged usable etc22:17
SpeedEvilThe above TMO post is wpa_supplicant22:17
* lcuk ponders pyqt22:18
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SpeedEvillcuk: yeah - many things weren't perfect22:18
DocScrutinizerlcuk: fails for really stupid camera-ui22:18
SpeedEvilwell - wpa_supplicant and friends nextime22:18
SpeedEvilmay be useful for you22:18
kWDocScrutinizer: well, I'm not sure that I know what you mean with "HAM" :-)22:18
kW(I'm still new to the platform...)22:18
lcukDocScrutinizer, not interested in camera ui22:18
nextimeoh no ok22:18
SpeedEvillcuk: you can rip out the camera22:18
DocScrutinizerkw appmanager22:18
nextimeit support monitor mode22:18
nextimebut not master22:18
SpeedEvillcuk: and replace your own22:18
lcukSpeedEvil, i can take photos and streams22:18
SpeedEvillcuk: A nice camera would be awesome22:19
SpeedEvilThe existing one is full of fail.22:19
lcuk? the only thing missing for me is torch icon22:19
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SpeedEvilI want to be able to alter camera settings without opening sjutter, I want GPS not to be pointlessly inaccurate, I want it to have the option not to try to connect to the internet, and simply iuse the GPS poistion without looking up the name online, I want to have it go automatically to 'night mode' in dark environments.22:21
SpeedEvilOffthe top of my head.22:21
nextimesad that we can't set up in real ap mode22:21
DocScrutinizerlcuk: the problem is camera-ui and cameradaemon are always active preloaded, and take the whole triggering and focusing etc exclusively (the buttons) and you can't control it via dbus or whatever22:21
SpeedEvilI want circle zoom to work22:21
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: that's not quite true22:21
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: you can redefine the button names away from theones its expecting.22:21
DocScrutinizerhmm, also for lens slider?22:21
DocScrutinizerok then22:22
SpeedEvilI have however forgotten to bookmark the TMO post where this was outlined.22:22
DocScrutinizerthen you 'just' need to reprogram / reinvent the whole shit22:22
SpeedEvilWhat was that awesome-looking camera thingy22:22
lcukcamera settings outside the shutter are mmmnnnh22:22
lcukgps is surely as accurate as it is when you use it22:22
lcukif you do a quick NOW gps it wont be as accurate as if you have gps tracking/maps open and accurate position anyway22:23
SpeedEvillcuk: Nope.22:23
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lcuknight mode would piss off many people22:23
lcukwho have finger near sensor at opening time22:23
lcukcircle zoom would be cool22:23
SpeedEvillcuk: It truncates the GPS reading to a second of arc. (around 4m north-south22:23
lcukfair enough22:23
SpeedEvilnot 4m22:24
SpeedEvil4m would be barely acceptable22:24
SpeedEvilbug 658422:24
povbotBug GPS geotagged pictures truncate precision of GPS reading (0 decimal places)22:24
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SpeedEvilMakes - for example - tagging plants in my garden hard.22:24
kWDid anybody of you experience that "Conversations" does not want to run?22:24
lcukSpeedEvil, agreed about camera res, didnt realise it was like that22:25
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kWwell, it simply starts, needs some seconds, and then stops22:26
kWwithout an error message22:26
kWwhen running dbus-monitor, I get "string "type='signal',sender=':1.20',path='/org/freedesktop/Telepathy/Connection/ring/tel/ring',interface='org.freedesktop.Telepathy.Connection',member='ConnectionError'""22:26
kW(well, among many other DBus-messages)22:27
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DocScrutinizersounds pretty much like modem has connectivity issues (well phone actually), and for any odd reason conversations doesn't want to start without coverage22:28
lcukSpeedEvil, thanks for pointer about gps22:28
SpeedEvillcuk: In principle it's simple to hack round.22:29
lcukyeah sure22:29
SpeedEvillcuk: dbus-monitor - with a little script that looks at the position, and looks for new files appearing, and rewrites the EXIF.22:29
DocScrutinizerkW: though in tablet modus it starts here, but says "need online mode" when I click "new SMS"22:29
kWDocScrutinizer: well, I do not get even to a "new SMS" button :-(22:30
SpeedEvilI think connection eerror is not saying it is haveing a connection over the air problem, but I can't talk to telepatyhy22:30
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DocScrutinizertry flight mode or tablet mode and see if it szarts then22:30
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DocScrutinizerd-bus connectio error22:31
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DocScrutinizerto rule that out I suggest to try flightmode22:31
DocScrutinizertelepathy d-bus API is a nightmare22:32
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DocScrutinizerso I'm not even wondering why it says "ring/tel/ring"22:33
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DocScrutinizerAnd I think nameless d-bus senders should be outlawed and punished with at least 5 years windows servicing22:34
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* DocScrutinizer ponders to adapt spamasassin for d-bus22:35
DocScrutinizernot to implement a d-bus api, but to filter d-bus msgs ;-P22:36
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kWDocScrutinizer: well, how do I actually put the phone into flight mode?22:37
SpeedEvilHold down the power button, and press 'offline mode'22:37
DocScrutinizerkW: push power button shortly22:37
SpeedEvilwel - press22:37
kWah, that workw22:37
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kWah, that works22:37 the extent that I now cannot access the phone using WLAN ;-)22:38
* lcuk wonders what kind of offline mode it would be if it didnt actually take offline22:38
DocScrutinizeryeah, works - if you got such a thing like power button ;-P22:38
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kWwell, but even in flight mode, the "Conversations" app does not start properly...22:39
DocScrutinizerkw, that's what tablet mode is for. It's an addon app though that installs that button22:39
DocScrutinizerkW: ok, then you got another problem22:40
DocScrutinizers/another/a different/22:40
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: kW: ok, then you got a different problem22:40
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kWok, maybe I sum up what is apparently wrong: Notes: "Internal error. Application 'Notes' closed.", E-mail: "Operation temporarily disabled due to low memory", Conversations: just silently starts and finishes22:41
SpeedEvilis your / full?22:42
DocScrutinizerhmm, or db corrupt22:42
* SpeedEvil sighs at the stupid conflation of all forms of storage into 'memory'22:42
DocScrutinizerkW: df -h / !!!22:43
DocScrutinizerand df -h ~22:44
kWDocScrutinizer: "rootfs                   21.1G      1.2G     18.9G   6% /"22:44
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DocScrutinizerplease post the output of mount22:44
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flailingmonkeykW: have you been playing with your partitions again :P22:45
DocScrutinizerI'd expect to see "permissions not supported on this fs. error on creating file" -> notifier "storage full"22:45
kWno, as I said, I changed the partition layout of the eMMC and put the root on a partition there (having read all the fuss about / having just 0.25GB...)22:46
kWDocScrutinizer: well, this is stock ext3...22:47
DocScrutinizerI see. cool setup22:47
kWthe old (copy) is on /mnt/boot22:47
kWDocScrutinizer: well, I fear that there is some weird check somewhere which checks "well, the rootfs is already 1.9GB in size, so the filesystem is full"22:49
DocScrutinizerdon't think so22:49
DocScrutinizerthat'd be too weird22:49
DocScrutinizerbut I actually wonder how you boot such setup22:50
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DocScrutinizerseems you'd have to pass a root= parameter to kernel cmdline22:50
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DocScrutinizerwhich NOLO won't do afaik22:51
kWDocScrutinizer: no, since PR1.2, I can add a bootmenu22:51
DocScrutinizerI know22:51
DocScrutinizereven since 1.1.122:51
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kWDocScrutinizer: in the bootmenu, I mount the partition and chroot into it22:51
DocScrutinizerhmm, maybe the chroot is the problem then?22:51
kW(actually, I even ask the user to supply a password to unlock the decryptet partition)22:52
DocScrutinizersome file handles still open to old root?22:52
kWDocScrutinizer: the output of "lsof | grep /mnt/boot" is empty22:52
DocScrutinizermhm, was about to suggest something along that line22:53
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DocScrutinizersorry, no idea22:53
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DocScrutinizerprobably strace actually is your best bet22:53
kWwell... maybe the amount of free space does _overflow_?22:53
DocScrutinizerI don't think there is any explicit check for free space. It just tries to create or open files22:54
flailingmonkeythat would be silly, but I can't rule it out22:54
DocScrutinizerand if that fails you get error "no space" as there's obviously no other possible reason the file operation could fail22:55
SpeedEvilstrace is awesome22:55
kWwell, modest'  last d-bus call is "dest=org.gnome.GnomeVFS.Daemon serial=57 path=/org/gnome/GnomeVFS/Daemon; interface=org.gnome.GnomeVFS.Daemon; member=GetVolumes"22:56
kWso maybe modest parses this output and decides that something is wrong|missing22:56
DocScrutinizeryou bet they got hardcoded pathnames or something odd in there22:57
DocScrutinizeranyway modest is open22:57
DocScrutinizerso gdb would be even better than strace22:58
DocScrutinizermaybe not22:58
DocScrutinizerorg.gnome.GnomeVFS.Daemon, blarrrrgh22:59
SpeedEvilI'd _love_ a seperate repository.22:59
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SpeedEvilSo that every repository had a _debug repository too22:59
SpeedEvilso you could just do apt-get install modest-debug23:00
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DocScrutinizerthat'd be a pkg though, not a separate repo23:00
DocScrutinizerand yes, that would be the way to do23:00
SpeedEvilTo quote - `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful  tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'23:01
DocScrutinizerand yet another pkg for the docs23:01
DocScrutinizermove those out of 'user' category if you feel better23:03
DocScrutinizerso they won't show up in HAM23:03
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DocScrutinizer<quote name=Nokia>We don't need that!</quote>23:04
DocScrutinizerbet a buck23:04
DocScrutinizerkW: please keep us updated on results of your enterprise. It look really attractive23:06
DocScrutinizereven better than separate partitions for /usr and /var :-D23:06
SpeedEvilkW: Also - benchmarks23:06
SpeedEvilkW: Time to boot, ...23:06
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DocScrutinizertime to boot is a good benchmark, and we all have the standard to compare the numbers23:07
DocScrutinizerthough I have to admit I have not the slightest idea how long a standard system takes to boot23:08
kWDocScrutinizer+SpeedEvil: sure, but first it has to work _at all_ ... and it does not currently (but I believe this is only because I've inserted a SIM card yesterday...)23:08
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SpeedEvilkW: Can you pick if you boot off / or /mmc?23:08
SpeedEvilstrace in both caces would be educational.23:08
SpeedEvilBusybox with the bootchart compiled in might also be interesting.23:08
* SpeedEvil adds it to the stack of stuff to try compiling.23:09
kWSpeedEvil: well, I just boot from the mmc, but the bootmenu allows to boot from the internal NAND flash (as usual)23:11
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kWby the way: do you also have a "/home/user/.signon" directory which is actually owned by root (and not user)?23:14
SpeedEvildrwxrwxrwx    2 root     root         4096 Jun 18 20:35 .23:15
SpeedEvildrwxr-xr-x  110 user     users        4096 Jun 18 14:30 ..23:15
SpeedEvil-rw-rw-rw-    1 user     users        2195 Jun 18 20:35 user_db.xml23:15
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DocScrutinizerseems someone thinks it's not a good idea to rename or delete user_db.xml23:18
DocScrutinizerwell, scratch that23:19
SpeedEvilAh - cunning23:19
SpeedEviluser_db.xml is what format would you guess?23:19
kWguys, I've found the problem!23:20
kWThe script to actually add encrypted swap was not run for some reason23:20
kWthus, I had no swap23:20
kWand literally no memory (in RAM)23:20
DocScrutinizerencryped swap, omg23:21
DocScrutinizerswap file?23:21
kWDocScrutinizer: well, data on the phone contains thousand of passwords... with the possibility to make many companies bankrupt within 5 minutes...23:22
kWno, it is a partition23:22
DocScrutinizerprobably a file would be easier to handle23:22
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kWnot necessary, the scripts needed for this are already written23:23
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DocScrutinizerhmm, ok23:23
kW(although I had to hack them because the command "blockdev" is not available on maemo... or is it?)23:23
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DocScrutinizerthe bottleneck isn't the (de)crypt but the mem-bus anyway23:23
kWwell... in some tests, I was able to make "kcryptd" eat 80% CPU23:24
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DocScrutinizerso maybe not only encrypt but also cmpress same time might actually speed up things considerably23:24
LiraNunaok this is just weird23:24
LiraNunaif I turn on my N900, I get 5bar 3G signal that turns into 3.5G once a connection is made23:25
kWLiraNuna: what's weird with this?23:25
kWDocScrutinizer: yes, maybe23:25
LiraNunaafter 2 minutes of doing absolutely nothing, the 3.5G connection drops to 3G (I know it happens if no data is transfered) then gradually drops the bars until it reaches 2.5G full23:25
LiraNunaplease note: the phone is standing still23:25
DocScrutinizerthat's *absolutely* normal23:26
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DocScrutinizerexcept maybe the 2.5G part23:26
LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, why?23:26
LiraNunathe phone is still and reporting full 3.5G connection23:26
LiraNunaT-mobile's site reports HSPA+ is available too23:27
kWDocScrutinizer: I'm also considering using the internal NAND as fast storage for frequently used applications (however, this requires tamperproofness: that is, nobody should be able to inject a "sniffer" into the unencrypted flash storage, e.g. by flashing this storage, without the user noticing this... but such a way of tamperproofness is required in general...)23:27
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LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, the N900 shows 5 bars, dropping a bar every 2-3 seconds, until it reaches one bar, then swaps to full 2.5G23:28
LiraNunahow is that normal?23:28
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: nope, this isn't 'reported' - this is negotiated whenever you actually try to transmit data. So 3.5 will show up only if you have data traffic23:28
LiraNunayes I know about that part23:28
LiraNunaI don't mind about the 3G/3.5G as much as the 2.5G drop out23:28
DocScrutinizer[2010-06-18 22:26:39] <DocScrutinizer> except maybe the 2.5G part23:28
LiraNunais anyone experiencing same issues? how can I debug this?23:29
valdynLiraNuna: just means you have bad reception23:29
valdynLiraNuna: bars drop only as soon as you actually use the connection23:29
DocScrutinizerkW: md5sum23:29
kWDocScrutinizer: but not on every boot...23:29
DocScrutinizerwon't be another way to get is safe23:30
LiraNunavaldyn, but I can use the connection just fine for ~2 minutes23:30
LiraNunaI actually get decent speed (~300kbps)23:30
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LiraNunathe phone doesn't move a centimeter23:30
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: UL orDL?23:30
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valdyn300kbps decent?23:31
DocScrutinizerthat's really no decent speed23:31
kWDocScrutinizer: hmm... but maybe on every boot is actually not bad... this would require some kernel-level support: store cryptographic checksums for every _block_ of the NAND device23:31
LiraNunais it too low?23:31
valdynLiraNuna: thats nearly as slow as 2G23:31
kWDocScrutinizer: and on (first) loading, compare this to a pre-loaded list of checksum23:31
kWDocScrutinizer: and on (first) loading, compare this to a pre-loaded list of checksums23:31
LiraNunaok let me rephrase23:31
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: and probably when trying to send the BTS detects it can't hear you and then reports that fact to the phone, so the bars drop23:31
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kWthe pre-loaded list of checksums would consume just about 512KB of RAM23:32
valdynLiraNuna: but cant explain that part23:32
LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, it happens everywhere23:32
LiraNunaI live in SF, and I had the same symptoms in LA23:32
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valdynLiraNuna: what about switching to 3G where your phone cant switch?23:33
valdynLiraNuna: ( theres an applet for that )23:33
LiraNunasays "Cellular data not available" for 2 seconds23:33
LiraNunathen full 3G reception23:33
kWDifferent-question: does anybody know how to add some  script to the boot sequence? Adding a link to "/etc/rc2.d" does not seem to be enough23:33
LiraNunayes, I'm using it23:33
LiraNunabut I don't want to switch manually!23:33
valdynLiraNuna: that message you do get when switching manually, that's ok23:34
DocScrutinizerkW: it's upstart23:34
LiraNunavaldyn, manually it works fine23:34
LiraNunabut I want it to be done automatically23:34
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DocScrutinizerkW: means, I've got no idea, except there's a folder 'events.d' or something23:35
LiraNunavaldyn, are my symptoms normal?23:36
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: what's your provider?23:36
valdynLiraNuna: no, im not getting these switches to 2G when the reception is fine23:36
DocScrutinizermaybe you should actually visit Nokia care center and ask them about it23:37
valdynLiraNuna: theres alot of things american network operators can do that would not be possible in europe though23:37
kWDocScrutinizer: well, the "upstart" keyword is probably enough :-)23:38
valdynLiraNuna: ( i cant tell if they dont intentionally switch you to 2G23:38
valdyn( or if that is even possible )23:38
LiraNunathe carrier can force me switch?23:38
DocScrutinizeryes, it can, from 3G to 2G23:39
DocScrutinizerI don't think the other way round is possible23:39
LiraNunaanyone else here is on T-mobile?23:39
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: though honestly I see similar effects here when I'm in areas of poor coverage23:41
kWDocScrutinizer: regarding boot-time-benchmarking, where is the methodology explained?23:41
LiraNunaI am NOT in a poor coverage23:41
DocScrutinizeror when I'm holding right edge of the phone while typing23:41
LiraNunaI'm in SF, the whole town has 323:41
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greenflydepending on where you are in SF you could get bad coverage23:42
DocScrutinizerkW: first approach: swirch on and start stopwatch. wait till desktop is fully rendered and stop stopwatch23:42
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greenflyplenty of clubs/bars where all carriers fail in the city23:42
LiraNunagreenfly, you're on T-mobile/SF?23:43
DocScrutinizergreenfly: my point23:43
kWDocScrutinizer: well, I just booted, after pressing "return", it probably took about 60 seconds until my jabber account sign on sound was played23:43
greenflyLiraNuna: yeah, but right now I'm not in SF23:44
LiraNunamy connection constantly drops to 2.5G23:44
lcukkW, what apps do you have on startup?  and many wdgets?23:44
LiraNunaunless I "force" it to be 3G, which will then work fine23:44
DocScrutinizerhmm, as mentioned above I don't have correct recent values for a stock kernel and rootfs boot, but that sounds not that unbearable23:44
DocScrutinizerkW: ^^^23:44
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LiraNunait's the "dual" mode that fails23:45
greenflyLiraNuna: I've seen it happen23:45
greenflyboth on my n900 w/ tmobile and my BB Bold, on ATT23:45
LiraNunait's annoying as the N900 doesn't "upgrade" connection if possible when I actually want to use it23:45
kWIcuk: well, the USB-power-connection to my laptop makes the N900 create the appropriate message "Connected to USB device", then the jabber client is online, and a SIM card is inserted (with PIN removed), and Wifi is active23:45
DocScrutinizerkW: could you check if the device starts to charge proper when switched off connected to charger, please?23:47
kWDocScrutinizer: well, it is not unbearable for me, especially as I do not plan to switch it off or reboot it anyway... is regular rebooting required or forced (e.g. crashes)?23:47
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kWDocScrutinizer: how can I determine this? the battery is fully charged currently...23:48
DocScrutinizernot really23:48
DocScrutinizerwell, a green LED would be a good sign23:48
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DocScrutinizera yellow blinking one as well23:48
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DocScrutinizerprobably this will fail on your device anyway, as it needs to boot up system in 'play_dead mode', and aiui that would require you to enter the password23:50
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StskeepsACTDEAD ;)23:50
kWDocScrutinizer: "aiui"?23:50
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DocScrutinizer~wtf aiui23:50
infobotAIUI: as I understand it23:50
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LiraNunathis looks familiar...23:50
LiraNunanow where did I see this before23:51
kWDocScrutinizer: well, I do not think it will fail, because in the boot menu, booting from the encrypted partition is the _second_ menu item, the _first_ is booting as usual... including the "act dead" mode, I suppose23:51
Arkenoiso no navi sensor anymore? idiots.23:51
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LiraNunaanyone has a solution to why my service is being degraded? if I set it to 3G mode, it works like a charm23:54
lcukLiraNuna, nope, but file a proper bug and for most reasonable thing i suggest locking to 3g as you said it works?23:55
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LiraNunalcuk, but when I'm out of 3G coverage, it won't give me service *at all*23:56
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Stskeepslcuk: in liqbase, what was it exactly you were passing around? 800x480 RGB-what?23:58
lcukLiraNuna, i wouldnt know how to begin to diagnose your problem - it could be specifically area related - and since most people dont have same trouble you will have to file and see if anything can be done23:58
Stskeepsor was it YUV23:58
lcukresolution isnt important stskeeps, but its yuv planar23:59
lcukand its not were - it is23:59
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: that's your carrier's config of their GSM/UMTS network, they don't like to have a device on their towers that doesn't proerly speak to the basestation, so they force you down to 2G. I'd guess23:59

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