IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-06-16

flailingmonkey~poke pupnik_00:00
* infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind pupnik_, pokes pupnik_ repeatedly, hilarity ensues.00:00
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dr34mwhich webbrowser for the n900 consumes the less energy as possible ?00:02
dr34musing opera atm00:02
hajopera uses most energy... ;)00:02
microlithpower consumption for browsers is largely moot, since more will be eaten by the radio and screen00:02
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hajmicrolith: I don't agree... try leaving Opera on a page with some animation....00:03
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dr34mye i notice it really drains th ebattery quickly.. had to recharge 2 times at work :(00:03
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SpeedEvilIt depends.00:04
SpeedEvil3G isn't actually too bad if you load a page every minute.00:04
SpeedEvilAnd screen can easily not dominate if it's not at max brightness00:04
tremnite all, sweet dreams00:05
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dr34malready put that to lowest setting00:05
dr34mfound a battery that has double capacity it seems00:05
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SpeedEvilwifi helps lots.00:06
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flailingmonkeymac brightness is overkill :) but I use it at my desk, when I have it plugged in and want to see from farther away00:07
infobotflailingmonkey meant: max brightness is overkill :) but I use it at my desk, when I have it plugged in and want to see from farther away00:08
pupnik_microb is wonderful for the JAVASCRIPT PAUSING feature!00:08
pupnik_so happy they implemented it :D00:08
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lcukpupnik_, its quite nice isnt it, but it has effect of people thinking pages stopped (which they have) if they dont know what its doing00:27
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pupnik_yes,  but this just toooo useful00:27
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lcukevening simon \o00:32
lcuklardman even00:32
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lardmanhey lcuk00:34
lcuklardman, this downsampling to get barcodes lark is a bit complex!00:34
lardmanreally? Using the pipeline?00:35
lcukno i just followed the original thread of barcode stuff i did way back when00:35
lcukgrabbing valid barcodes from a 320pixel wide stream00:36
lcukvalid codes from ~144 pixels00:36
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lardmanah ok :)00:37
lcuklardman, i downloaded mbarcode earlier too - you have green flashes on the gst pipeline!00:37
lardmanhmm, so I've heard00:38
MohammadAG51didn't you have that in liq*? :)00:38
lardmanI'll have to take another look at that00:38
lcukMohammadAG51, yeah baseline detection, i decided to follow train of thought to turn them into valid codes00:38
lcuklardman, solved green flash in liqbase, but im not sure how you are getting gstream00:39
lcukie, i thought you were entirely in rgb00:39
lardmanhmm, yes green + purple/pink00:39
lcukgreen is UV layers == 000:39
lardmanwe run in YUV as we don't want colour info, just the greyscale stuff00:40
lcukpurple and pink are other corners00:40
lcukyeah its nice like that00:40
lardmanit's afaicr a side effect of the pipeline pausing while the autofocus is performed00:40
lcukyeah it sounds likely00:40
lardmanhow did you solve things then? RGB all the way?00:40
lcukits very juddery to flash and focus and green flash at same time00:41
lcukno, its related to setting the overlay colorkey00:41
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lcukjust a mo00:41
lardmanhmm, any code pointers?00:41
MohammadAG51(C) Just comment it out00:42
* lardman wonders how the changelog will look: removed camera interface to avoid green/pink flashing, side effect of not being able to scan barcodes anymore00:43
lcuklardman, that is the point at start BEFORE i opened any windows - i ask system for the settings00:44
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lcukand i force my own (black) one in place00:44
lcukthen, to be sure a bit lower down I also set the background color of the window to it00:44
lcukactually, its very slightly grey - pure black bleeds through lots of things..00:45
lardmanhmm, what about under Qt?00:45
lcukqt has this sort of code deep within it :p00:46
lardmanI always had the feeling it wasn't the background, or does the overlay have a background colour too?00:46
lcuki dunno which patchway you are using or whether theres already an analog00:46
lcukbut thats how i fixed it for me :)00:46
lardmanoh wunderbar, I'll have to do some digging then00:46
lcuksorry! not an answer on a plate but a lead you can follow00:46
lardmanthanks for the pointer and code, will do some digging00:46
lardmanyeah I know, just being lazy ;)00:47
lardmanme that is!00:47
lcukarent we all00:47
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lcuklardman, i spent 2 nights playing with barcode and trying to work out why I couldnt scan a UPM00:47
lardmanoh right00:47
lcukbefore i realised it was an EAN-1300:47
lardmanthat should work00:48
lcuki have learnt all about clean downsampling00:48
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jogais the led pattern editor safe to use? ;P it has a scary warning00:48
lcukand have taken some random code and made it actually pull out nice fairly accurate bars00:48
lcukjoga, its scary because its scary00:49
lcukfluffy bunnies dont have scary warnings00:49
lcuk(unless its the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog00:49
jogashouldn't it be in -devel then00:50
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lcukwhy, where is it and what does it matter00:50
lcuki can buy guns if i want00:51
lcukand those arent safe00:51
jogayeah, but you know what you're buying :)00:51
jogajust wondering if someone uses it00:52
lcukdunno, where is it tho00:52
jogaI wa trying to make the sms and call notifications a different color00:52
jogaI think it's in testing...00:53
lcukjoga, you said it shouldnt be in -devel00:53
lcukahh well00:53
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jogacan't remember though00:53
jogaanyway, the test worked fine, but when saving, it warns you about possible bricking and urges to manually check everything :)00:54
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jogabut anyway, I'll leave that for another day, need to sleep now00:54
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mc_teoanyone here use knots2?00:55
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vldcnstmc_teo: yes.00:55
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mc_teonorton 360 gives out about netcat00:56
mc_teoand deletes it before it even installs00:57
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mc_teoso just wondering what is it actually used for00:57
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MohammadAG51isn't knots a linux app?00:58
mc_teotheres a windows installer00:59
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mc_teojust relies on the windows ruby interpreter, etc00:59
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mc_teoon my n900 i tried to skip forward videos (server is vista), and it just freezes the playback01:00
tripzeroupnp server?01:01
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mc_teotripzero: i have upnp disabled on my router, should i enable it?01:05
tripzeromy guess is your windows server doesn't support seeking01:06
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kW_Hello! Does anybody know how to sync contacts and appointsments with KDE desktop?01:06
tripzerobut isn't reporting that capability01:06
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tripzerokW_ syncevolution?01:06
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tripzerokW_, also, google cal01:07
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kW_tripzero: well, google calendar is not an option due to privacy requirements01:08
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vldcnstmc_teo: netcat comes with ruby, google it, it's most likely a false positive. Also, have you tried playing the videos directly with VLC and seeking? it may not be a knots problem.01:08
lardmanhmm, right, it looks like my issue is that I need to flush or prime the pipeline01:08
lardmannot sure which01:08
mc_teovldcnst: ive been playing the videos with vlc, many times, and they play fine01:08
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vldcnstmc_teo: does vlc actually crash or?01:09
vldcnst(when using the n900 client)01:10
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vldcnstmc_teo: also, have you enabled debug and developer mode? if not, do so and check the knots log.01:12
mece~seen achipa01:13
infobotachipa <~chatzilla@Maemo/community/council/achipa> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5h 39m 7s ago, saying: 'flailingmonkey: strategic choice. If we shut it down, they would come after us'.01:13
kW_tripzero: well, it looks like syncevolution has no complete support for KDE PIM currently...?01:15
tripzeropossibly not01:16
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lcuklardman, i looked back at the barcode stuff, because im still wanting to make devices say "cheese" and take a photo of them all01:24
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lardmanQt Creator question, if I edit a header to specify functions, can I get the Qt Creator to automatically generate the skeletons in the .cpp file?01:24
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* lcuk wanted that01:25
lcukwould increase speed of prototyping classes01:25
lcuki never found one (thats not to say there isnt one01:25
lardmanlcuk: I'm finally getting cracking on the database plugin so I can list my books, dvds, cds, but is hard work, not much free time atm01:25
lardmanlcuk: fair enough, not like the "wonders" of M$ then ;)01:25
lcukyeah i know - databases are however reasonably straight forward to do simply01:25
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lcukhavent they got datasets and bindable grids?01:26
lardmanyeah, have to get my head around all this class nonsense though ;)01:26
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mc_teovldcnst: where are the logs kept?01:26
lcuklardman, a while ago fiferboy had an application01:27
lcukfor his birdwatching01:27
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lcukits his rosetta stone - hes done it in many languages and systems ;)01:27
lardmanI never know whether to use a class or a struct, I guess go classes all the way01:27
lardmanlcuk: cool01:27
lcukanyway, its in qt, uses database and has queries and searhcing01:27
lardmanI should do some searching for that then01:27
lcuka struct is just a class without any explicit members anyway :)01:28
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lcuktheres probably 10 db apps listed in qt creator examples01:28
lardmanyeah, but I need to think harder now, decide if I need the classiness01:28
* lcuk nods01:28
lardmanyeah I saw, but decided they don't do what I need, so am just going to write some code and evovle I think01:28
lcukyup, take a look at fiferboys project anyway, he seemed pleased with it01:29
lardmanwill do, thanks for the heads up01:29
lcukim off 2 bed :)01:29
lcukgnite simon \o01:29
lardmannight Gary, nice to chat to you :)01:29
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kW_Which app do I use to download openstreetmap tiles for offline use?01:32
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ptlnavit uses them, but it is a pain to set up01:34
SpeedEvilSeveral will do it.01:34
SpeedEvilI think maep will.01:34
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SpeedEvil bear in mind01:34
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mecethere are no quick fixes in extras, I'm guessing..01:38
mece10 days per version minimum.01:38
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kW_SpeedEvil: well, maep does not seem to offer such a menu01:40
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vldcnstmc_teo: have you found the log?01:45
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SpeedEvilkW_: I was thinking of 'mappero'01:53
SpeedEvilmenu->maps->manage maps01:54
kW_SpeedEvil: you mean, in mappero?01:54
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ManoftheSeaisn't muelli a cereal food?02:09
tripzerommm cereal02:10
* SpeedEvil is addicted to porridge ATM.02:10
ManoftheSeaah, thanks.02:10
SpeedEvil40g of porridge oats, 100g of milk, 4 dates (pitted) in a small bowl, microwaved for 3 mins.02:11
SpeedEvilAnd then more milk on top.02:11
asjmuesli is just un cooked granola I thought02:11
ManoftheSeaSorry, I use imperial.  How many cups is that?02:11
SpeedEvilAlso, really cheap02:11
meceManoftheSea, depends on the size of the cup :P02:11
SpeedEvilManoftheSea: About an ounce and a third of oats.02:11
ManoftheSeastill not a volume measurement...02:12
SpeedEvilI don't off-hand know the volume.02:12
ManoftheSeaIt's alright, I don't hate you because of it.02:12
SpeedEvilI am currently weighing all my food with:
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SpeedEvil(it boots faster than my kitchen scale)02:13
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pupnikGAN900: this is reminding me of you lately
asjand it's accurate to .1g! ;) that's a really good price02:15
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HtheBanyone has exp with NITdroid?02:15
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SpeedEvilasj: it is actually good for consistent spicing.02:15
lardmannighty-night all02:16
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DrIDKHello ! I m trying to packaging a small qt application with madde.. But mad dpkg-buildpackage return me this error : ! Please help me!!02:17
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asjSpeedEvil: but for real accuracy you buy: -- heh I wonder how many scales you could buy before they bust down your door and do a drug raid02:17
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DrIDKthis is my qmake :
ManoftheSeaiScale, for the iPad02:18
ManoftheSeahe he he.02:18
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HtheBice kill for the eye pet?02:18
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DrIDKand this my file tree :
asjDrIDK: is the prefix really supposed to be /usr/LOCAL ?02:19
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asjoh, nm it seems to be doing the right thing, I have no clue about madde02:19
DrIDKasj: this tutorial said me /usr/local   and this one /usr/
SpeedEvilHtheB: what?02:20
asjDrIDK: I was refereing to the all caps02:20
HtheBu know NITdroid?02:20
HtheBAndroid on Maemo02:21
HtheBAndroid on n810 and N90002:21
* SpeedEvil sighs at maemo.org02:21
* HtheB browses to www.maemo.org02:21
SpeedEvilHtheB: I know of the project - I do not know of any progress information, or if it is to be releast on wednesday morning at 9;40AM EST.02:22
HtheBI just couldnt get it to work02:22
SpeedEvilOh - it's back up.02:22
ManoftheSeaoddly specific02:22
HtheBit doesnt work lol02:22
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benno2SpeedEvil, wrote about the high audio latency problem and a long rant on the maemo ML. let's see what comes out :)02:30
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* SpeedEvil finds out tomorrow that benno2 has been killed by the pulseaudio ninjas.02:30
SpeedEvilThey have the power of moving in utter silence, with the sound of their actions occurring several seconds later.02:31
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benno2SpeedEvil, read the comments of this interview and you see that desktop users do hate pulseaudio too :
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benno2SpeedEvil, on the contrary on any articles about JACK audio server such comments were completely absent.02:32
SpeedEvilFirefox has its own breakage.02:32
povbotBug 147659: was not found.02:32
SpeedEvilbenno2: To be fair - that could be as the number of distributions installing jack is tiny.02:33
asjbenno2: I don't like Jack, does that count?02:33
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SpeedEvil (than pulseaudio)02:34
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luke-jrALSA works fine for me02:36
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benno2asj, I am agnostic in that sense, the foundation must be solid. jack has been designed by people that know what they are doing. getting real time audio right is tricky. and ATM I am not aware of soundservers that achieve that kind of numbers. if pulseaudio can be fixed to provide that performance out of the box then it's ok. but I'm sceptical.02:36
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opdf2how do you copy text from an email?02:39
asjbenno2: my problems with jack come from 2 sources, and I'm not sure PA really addresses these anyways. 1. It requires all input/output to have the same time base. This is ludicrous on modern desktop systems, especially those with usb who could have a multitude of different input sources.  2. From a users point of view trying to tie audio sources/ssinks/what ever they called confuses the hell out of me. I could learn it, but I can't imagin my02:39
asjgrandma doing so.02:39
benno2SpeedEvil, yes the number of distros using jack by default is small. probably they would need to ship it with wrappers like alsa-to-jack,  esd-to-jack etc and provide some sensible defaults. then it would work transparently. for example I use skype with the alsa-to-jack alsa driver. so basically skype which supports only alsa outputs to jack and I can configure the audio parameters in the jack server. my laptop's soundcard driver has a problem under linux, you02:40
benno2 need to specify 3 audio fragments otherwise you get crackles. skype with alsa uses 2 fragments and audio calls are unusable. thorugh jackd I get perfect audio quality and can use other apps in parallel. I could even record a call by simply connecting skype jack out port to an audio recorder.02:40
asj(3. jackd crashes on me, and apps can't react gracefully to it. this should be almost seamless when audio isn't being mixed and it's not)02:41
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benno2asj, yes multiple cards can be a problem, so the solution can be to run one jack instance per card but then the user app would need to chose the other jackd server. everything is doable and perhaps some middleware code is needed, but the foundation is solid02:42
benno2asj, about jack "crashes" it's a feature to kick out clients that are too slow to react, eg take too much cpu. it can disabled too (which I would do on a phone)02:42
benno2I don't say that jack is perfect, but IMHO it provides a solid foundation to build on02:43
SpeedEvilCan jack pretend to be pulse?02:44
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benno2no matter what, Nokia should get their things in order and fix the software layer. then developers should just use Qt Multimedia API and let the underlying layers work out the most efficient communication to the audio hw02:45
asjbenno2: that's the wrong answer, jack, or it's input methods should resample the audio to a single time base.  Ack! well maybe that's why it "cashes" but the client is Ardour and the only thing the system was doing was multitrack recording/mixing.  It could use 100% CPU time, and if it did fine.  That's an arugment for robustness, it must be robust, fault tolerant to be used on real systems and it's not.02:45
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SpeedEvilIt should only mix to a common timebase if the hardware cannot be configured on the in and out to do a common timebase IMO02:46
benno2SpeedEvil, one thing you can do is run pulseaudio which works as a jackd client. so consumer audio apps can use the pulse api while demanding audio apps can use jackd directly. this provides the best of both worlds but not sure if running 2 audio servers is a good idea on a phone,  battery consumption, memory, cpu usage02:46
SpeedEvilI keep meaning to do more than I am.02:46
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SpeedEvilI want to find out why the hell pulse uses about the same CPU that mp3 decoding does.02:47
asjSpeedEvil: that's not really the issue, it's multilple sound cards.  One has input at say 44105hz (which varies of course) and the other at 44095hz (and it varies too)02:47
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shorterwhat is the process "trackerd"?02:47
SpeedEvilshorter: It indexes all your files02:47
shortertaking nearly 100% cpu02:47
SpeedEvilshorter: It should - ideally - stop in a few mins - unless you've done something odd like put a backup of your laptop into /home02:48
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SpeedEvilIt doesn't like that.02:48
SpeedEvilYou can edit ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg - or something - to alter its behaveiour02:48
shorteryeah it is down, I would like to have more control over it though02:48
benno2asj, time base resampling on multple cards can be done but OTOH it increases latency, this would be needed only if you do things like playing an mp3 on both card simultaneously etc. but in normal cases you can use separate time based. I'm not sure if windows xp/ 7does this.02:48
shorterwhat program owns it?02:48
SpeedEvilshorter: owns it?02:49
SpeedEvilshorter: It is started as a daemon in x11.post02:49
shortercan I manage its behavior?02:49
SpeedEvilyou can tell it what not to index.02:49
SpeedEvilUsing the phone as normal - it should - generally - be quite painless.02:49
asjbenno2: it bites me when I want multiple inputs.  A wonderful linux (or any OS) would be say Ardour and 8+ USB mics.  Should be trivial to do, but jack can't even do 2 usb mics.  Of course I also want monitor input, etc.  So the arguemnt is, go buy a mixer.  Fine I can mix it all in analog, but...imho that's lame.02:50
benno2SpeedEvil, when devs don't do their homework those things do happen (high cpu usage)02:50
shorterI guess it is okay, but I think it would be better if it didn't try to index every time the phone boots02:50
SpeedEvilIF you have wierd filesystems - you may need to tell it not to index stuff02:50
SpeedEvilshorter: It shouldn't be02:50
shorterhow does it know when to?02:51
SpeedEvilbenno2: I'm not sure if it's that, or rif it's because of some bogus behaviour.02:51
SpeedEvilshorter: It's in the config file.02:51
SpeedEvilMine is:02:51
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benno2asj, it would be interesting to know if this works under windows. eg you use cubase to record from 8 usb mixers and everything gets resampled on the fly. cubase uses ASIO and having written ASIO backends (for linuxsampler) , the API do not support using multiple cards at the same time (at least without some major effort), and nowhere is inter-card timebase adjusting mentioned02:52
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SpeedEvilAs you see - I've told it not to index ~/data/02:53
kW_SpeedEvil: well, mappero seems to work... however, it seems to crash sometimes...02:54
benno2asj, I'm sure the devs at the linux-audio-dev mailing list discussed the issue about multiple audio cards, perhaps someone came up with a solution already. but as said, it's not esy to provide both low latency and real time timebase adjusting02:54
* GAN900 preordered an iPhone 4G.02:55
SpeedEvilkW_: DEvs seemed quite responsive when I found a minor bug02:55
SpeedEvilUnless you're going to blend it.02:55
SpeedEvilThen it's cool.02:55
GAN900. . . for my mother. *g*02:56
GAN900pupnik, bizarre.02:56
pupnikno offense02:56
DrIDKI have packaging my application using this tutorial : ! So All is working... exept I cannot access to my application from the main application view02:56
DrIDKI have to run it from terminal02:56
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asjbenno2: I don't know enough about it, and I'll admit many problems look easy until you get into them, but I don't understand how resampling data at 44khz could add that much latency.  I've done slip buffers at 1.5mhz and it adds us latencies so this should be trivial....anyways meeting time.02:57
SpeedEvilasj: there is apaprantly sometimes required filtering.02:57
SpeedEvilBut - still.02:57
kW_mardi: Hello, are you the developer of Mappero?02:58
SpeedEvil(neglecting the fact that filtering in line with mp3 decoding is near trivial.02:58
shorterhow od you disable the ssh server from running automatically?02:59
shorterheh, I wana start it sometimes03:00
SpeedEvilyou have to install a ssh server for it to run at all03:00
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SpeedEvilI'm not aware of a nice way to manually start it03:00
benno2asj, since audio cards do work with audio buffers of sizes ranging 5msec up to several 100msec. you have to introduce a bit of latency in order to track the time base difference and resample on the fly. one soundcard could get warm and then the samplefrequency might drift few Hz. you need to write a resampler which adjusts itself on the fly and still providing low latency and droput free operation.03:00
pupnikDrIDK: got a desktop entry for your app?03:01
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DrIDKpupnik: oh yes! let me look03:02
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pupnikre filtering SpeedEvil - yes it would be preferable to do the eq before the conversion to time-domain03:04
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pupnikbut how is that best done?  by the app (media player) or by removing mp3->pcm conversion from the app and putting it into the sound server03:05
SpeedEvilIt would have to be really in the backend libraries.03:06
SpeedEvilYou'd want gst-* and friends to know of how to do equalisation - which will differ for mp3, aac, ...03:06
SpeedEvilAnd of some way for some middleware to tell them what the equalisation should be.03:07
SpeedEvilAnd some way to turn on and off hte sound servers eq, if it can't be done03:07
pupnikmakes sense03:07
pupnikrestarting x - bbl03:07
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* benno2 shuts down for a few hours and continues his audio fight tomorrow :) cya03:10
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pupnikfree minds, free markets and free software!03:21
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luke-jrpupnik: why filter SpeedEvil?03:32
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shorteris pulseaudio using 30% cpu while on phone normal?03:41
SpeedEvilshorter: yes03:41
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SpeedEvilshorter: It runs all of the voice throught the CPU03:42
SpeedEvilIt has to do this for NSA reasons to run the keyword detection, and uplink any hot-words.03:42
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pupniknice find SpeedEvil03:45
* SpeedEvil points at DocWhatever.03:46
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pupniki kind of enjoyed talking straight to hw:0 and blocking all other system audio while my app was running03:49
* SpeedEvil sighs at not downloading stuff when he finds it.03:50
SpeedEvil - throwing a database error03:50
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shorterfor NSA reasons!?03:55
shorteryou're a funny guy03:55
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Termanagood morning04:04
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shorterI hope you were joking SpeedEvil04:20
flailingmonkeyyes. he was joking04:22
flailingmonkeythe NSA performs its keyword detection at the routing nodes, where it has complete control of the line04:22
flailingmonkeyeasier to deploy updates04:22
pupnikluckily our secret communications are all cleverly encoded as geek chatter on irc04:26
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shorterhow do you create a group for sms or voice on the n900?04:35
shorterI don't want all the kids from school cluttering my contacts04:36
flailingmonkeyno contact groups in nokia Phone/Contact apps04:37
flailingmonkeyContacts now has a plugin, but I don't know how much that'd help04:38
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flailingmonkeys/plugin/plugin interface/04:39
infobotflailingmonkey meant: Contacts now has a plugin interface, but I don't know how much that'd help04:39
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pupnikmultiplayer platform shooter in ascii graphics...
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flailingmonkeyg'night everyone04:52
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shorterflailingmonkey - which plugin is this you're talking about for contacts and groups?05:12
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shorterhow would you inport contacts from the regular contacts program to GPE Contacts?05:37
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D|g|ta|anyone around know if there is a way to search within the application manager for a particular app? Since the update to the latest version of maemo that feature is no longer there.06:17
shorterthat's odd06:18
shorterhave you  tried selecting different repos or using apt-get from the cmd line?06:19
D|g|ta|and annoying :)06:19
D|g|ta|i have a number of repos selected06:19
DocScrutinizer2D|g|ta|: type to search06:19
D|g|ta|excuse me?06:20
DocScrutinizer2just enter searchstring via hw kbd06:20
DocScrutinizer2starts search, like on desktop with contacts06:20
DocScrutinizer2awkward user interface06:21
D|g|ta|sorry from where? i used to be able to select from the dropdown 'search'06:21
DocScrutinizer2and seem you can'r select anymore between search in name and search in description06:21
D|g|ta|so i have to use a different app to search the repository?06:23
DocScrutinizer2opem HAM, click download, click all, start typing searchstring06:23
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shorterI think that's what he's been doing06:25
DocScrutinizer2hildon application manager06:25
D|g|ta|ok thats what ive been doing. the search string isnt there..06:25
D|g|ta|the ability to search..06:26
DocScrutinizer2sorry then, that's what I've been told many times is the way HAM in 1.2 works06:26
DocScrutinizer2no 1.2 here, so can't help you06:26
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shorterIs skype the only VoIP client that can both call land lines AND work on the n900?06:33
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DocScrutinizer2SIP works like a charm06:33
D|g|ta|DocScrutinizer2 figured it out06:33
D|g|ta|i JFGI06:33
D|g|ta|you select all06:34
shorteryou have any advice on what to get for calling landlines DocScrutinizer?06:34
D|g|ta|then just start typing what you are looking for and it will filter06:34
shorterlike, obviously it will cost money06:34
DocScrutinizer2shorter: get SIP account at any SIP provider06:34
shorterwill I be able to roam on any wifi in the world and people can call me from landlines?06:35
DocScrutinizer2shorter: www.sipgate.de06:35
shorterI'm in the US btw06:35
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infobothmm... sip is Session Initiation Protocol, (see RFC 3261) It's HIP to be SIP!06:36
shorterI'll take that as a yes06:36
D|g|ta|Im pleased with how well skype works :)06:37
shorterI just wanted to confirm my sketchy knowledge06:37
D|g|ta|the SMS isnt enabled yet06:37
shorterdo you use it to call non-skypers (cell and landline #s)? D|g|ta|?06:37
D|g|ta|works great06:37
shorterhow much is it costing?06:37
D|g|ta|60 bucks for a year06:37
D|g|ta|there is a subscription service06:38
shorterso I can roam on any wifi network and it will work with my number, right?06:38
D|g|ta|that lets you call from skype which is 2.9906:38
D|g|ta|a month06:38
shorterand I'm guessing it works on 3g too06:38
shorterwhat about calls to?06:38
D|g|ta|i connect to different wifi connections06:38
D|g|ta|calls do require you to pay for the online number06:39
D|g|ta|calls to you i mean06:39
shorterwhat does that mean?06:39
shorterwhat is 'the online number'?06:39
DocScrutinizer2shorter: ekiga.net06:39
D|g|ta|mean that calling out doesnt require a phone number06:39
D|g|ta|but calling to you you will need a online number06:39
shorteryeah, do you have one?06:40
D|g|ta|i didnt mean to derail the conversation06:40
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D|g|ta|thats 60 bucks for a year06:40
shorterI wonder how skype compares to all of these other SIP providers06:40
DocScrutinizer2oh well, then go waste your money for that skype BS06:40
DocScrutinizer2it's not my money06:40
shorterI didn't pay yet docS06:41
shorterI'm doing some research, but I have to set it up soon because my prepaid voice is 15c/min06:41
D|g|ta|yea, ill be quiet :)06:41
DocScrutinizer2on sipgate or fwd you get "landline" geographical number for *free* so everybody can call you like you had a landline phone06:42
D|g|ta|i wonder how difficult it would be to setup your own sip using amazons EC2..06:42
DocScrutinizer2outbound minutes are usually much cheaper than on skype06:42
shorterand it has the same roaming functionality?06:43
shorteryeah, I didn't want do sell out to skype06:43
DocScrutinizer2sip is the real thing06:43
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DocScrutinizer2while skype is a hacker solution based on peer2peer technology06:43
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DocScrutinizer2sip is FOSS, skype is as proprietary and closed as it could ever get06:44
shorterI see SIP has good n900 integration, so yeah, looks like I'll need to do more provider research06:44
shorteryes, I really don't appreciate that06:44
shorterI got to the "enter your full name" on the skype site, and paused and went to do research for alternatives06:45
shortermakes me feel like im in trouble or something06:45
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shorterI wonder if you can have multiple sip accounts on the same phone06:47
DocScrutinizer2see :-D06:48
shorterlol, DocScrutinizer how many numbers is your n900 attached to?06:48
DocScrutinizer2shorter: my N900 atm only to sipgate german geographical number06:49
DocScrutinizer2I'm not even sure how well N900 supports multi account for SIP06:49
DocScrutinizer2but it *should*06:50
DocScrutinizer2I'd guess06:50
DocScrutinizer2shorter: so the answer is: two06:50
DocScrutinizer2the GSM and the SIP number06:50
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DocScrutinizer2btw my N810 is another 'extension' of the same SIP number06:51
shorterthat's pretty sick06:51
DocScrutinizer2and my laptop with twinkle is the 3rd extension06:51
shorter"let me transfer you to our president" *runs over to laptop* "HELLO?"06:52
DocScrutinizer2so if anybody calls my german landline number, there's 3 devices that start ringing06:52
DocScrutinizer2you can't do that with skype afaik06:53
D|g|ta|my choices for skype were for different reasons06:53
DocScrutinizer2skype manages better: easy installation, video calls, NAT traversal06:54
swc|666iax inside ssh socks from chroot ftw06:55
DocScrutinizer2and maybe it is better on delivering good quality on really lossy networks06:55
D|g|ta|Hey doc, dont suppose you know where to get replacement sytlus?06:55
D|g|ta|for the n90006:55
DocScrutinizer2sure I know06:55
D|g|ta|official ones that actually fit06:55
DocScrutinizer2I got one for free when N900 came back from Nokia repair ;-P06:57
D|g|ta|in the the oily United states..06:57
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DocScrutinizer2sorry, but I haven't searched for outlets in easern Asia06:58
shorterwhat does NAT traversal have to do with VoIP DocScrutinizer?06:58
DocScrutinizer2neither in 3rd world countries like USA06:58
DocScrutinizer2shorter: when someone is calling you, a data packet has to be sent from outside (aka the world, internet) to your SIP user agent (aka phone, client). NAT may become an obstacle07:00
shorterdo you ever have VoIP problems due to NAT on the various wifi hotspots you visit?07:00
D|g|ta|something like this doc? :)
DocScrutinizer2there are good usually working solutions for that in SIP, like STUN, ICE, and host side NAT traversal07:01
shorteryeah, I just want VoIP on the n900 that works on the most wifi hotspots and via 3g07:02
shorterbut I'm still looking around for the best SIP provider deals07:02
DocScrutinizer2shorter: that's actually a hard task, as there's soooo many of them07:02
shorteryep, I thought I would find more comparison articles07:03
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shortergreat, I wonder if US ones are included07:07
shorterdo you use GPE contacts list at all?07:07
DocScrutinizer2for usa is rather popular07:07
shorterI like how it actually has group features07:07
DocScrutinizer2shorter: scroll down the list ;-)07:08
shorterhow would you sync the GPE contacts app with the regular contacts app?07:08
DocScrutinizer2a very few of USA are actually there07:08
shorteryeah, I'm definitely looking over all of this SIP stuf you give me07:08
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DocScrutinizer2ouch, bought out by google :-S07:11
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DocScrutinizer2so seems google supports SIP for google voice07:13
DocScrutinizer2as sipphone is SIP, and sipphone == gizmo, and gizmo been bought by google and became google voice, aiui07:15
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luke-jrDocScrutinizer2: no, GrandCentral was bought and became Voice07:28
luke-jrGizmo was bought later, and pretty much sat on AFAIK07:28
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DigitalPioneershorter:  looks quite 'standard'07:31
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shortersince you live in germany, DocScrutinizer2, can you recommend the best data plan/provider for roaming through sweden, germany, greece, UK, and France?07:35
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shorterjust looking for cheapest/GB (but full geographical coverage)07:37
adeusI'm guessing there's no such thing07:37
DigitalPioneerouch, that's really hard. Data roaming always costs more than gold, though the EU regulations authority is trying to get tariffs down. They did for voice roaming, but not yet for data roaming. Some poor dudes came back from holiday with a $$$$$ bill waiting for them07:38
adeusI buy prepaids07:38
DigitalPioneerthat's the recommended way to cope with this, yes07:38
DigitalPioneerbuy PAYG for the country you're at07:39
shorteroh, so no prepaids that work for more than one country?07:41
DigitalPioneernot for data07:41
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shorterso I should just take out the sim before i land so I dont roam, and then go to the nearest place and get a sim07:41
DigitalPioneerat any reasonable rate07:41
DigitalPioneerprobably yes07:42
shorteranyone here use vodafone? I heard they could do it for cheap/est..07:43
DigitalPioneerthe big stores will ask for your ID or passport, the smaller usually turkish ones, and supermarkets, don't care07:43
hypatiashorter: tesco in the UK, in .de, tmobile in .nl is who i used last time07:45
hypatianot sure the others :)07:45
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DigitalPioneerhypatia: has blau a data option?07:47
hypatiaDigitalPioneer: 9eur/1gb07:48
hypatiagreat deal07:48
DigitalPioneerthat's ok07:48
DigitalPioneershorter: you get in every 2nd supermaket07:48
DigitalPioneerin Germany07:48
DigitalPioneer20EUR iirc07:49
DigitalPioneerprobably incl minutes worth 20EUR07:49
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shorterThinking about switching my main number from cell -> voip08:04
hypatiashorter: make sure your voip service supports sms :)08:05
* hypatia <3's google voice08:05
shorteryou use it with SIP?08:06
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shorterhypatia, I'd be very interested to hear how you use GV08:07
shorterI've heard various SIP providers can allow GV to make calls to landlines, etc - do you use it like this?08:08
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hypatiashorter: i do, using gizmo5.  it's also doable with any sip provider that gives you a US number08:13
hypatiai use gizmo to forward to my canadian cell #08:13
hypatiaand a callback app on (shh) android08:13
* hypatia just got an n900 today ^_^08:14
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shorteryeah, I got mine like 4 days ago08:15
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pigeonhypatia, shorter: congratulations08:28
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shortergot any GV invites?08:34
shortermaybe requesting one on the site is just as quick as from user > user08:35
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plastunhi! how to link Entry and TouchSelector widgets to use entry as text searcher in selector?08:44
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hypatiashorter: i don't, sadly, but you can get one in 24 hours if you have a .edu address08:49
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shorteroh, well time to re-submit my request then - didn't know the edu rule08:51
shorterman I wish there was a way to group contacts08:54
shorterand when I export them in the contact program, and try to import them in GRE Contacts program, each contact is an individual file that has to be selected separately08:55
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mece~seen X-Fade09:08
infobotx-fade is currently on #maemo (14h 48m 5s) #meego (14h 48m 5s), last said: 'vldcnst: You can always try :)'.09:08
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plastunhow to reorder entry and selector widgets in TouchSelectorEntry widget?09:16
shortersorry, never used that app before09:16
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meceplastun, remove and insert09:17
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plastunmece, thanks09:18
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meceX-Fade, when you got the time, I've got qlister 0.2-6 stuck in the autobuilder09:23
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plastunmece, I have got entry widget from TouchSelectorEntry, but pack_start or pack_end doesn't work09:24
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meceplastun, what language?09:24
meceok hold on.09:25
meceplastun, are you using a model?09:25
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plastunmece, this is example:
meceplastun, and you want to rearrange the items, right?09:27
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plastunI want to get Entry widget after selector widget, in bottom of window09:27
meceplastun, wait a sec, let me fire up the sdk here.09:30
plastunmece, no problem. waiting...09:30
meceyou want the search box at the bottom?09:32
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plastunmece, yes09:34
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meceplastun, hmm. perhaps you can add the selector entry and column in a vbox separately09:39
mecelemme try..09:39
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Venemogood morning guys09:41
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meceplastun, I really don't see any direct way to move that thing.Placement within the widget looks static09:50
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plastunme too09:51
plastunso, my task was implement search in TouchSelector09:51
plastunnow I am trying to do this using TouchSelector and Entry widget separately09:52
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Venemoplastun: what is it that you would like to create?09:53
plastunfor example, the list of names and ability to search name by typing it in Entry09:54
plastunbut using TouchSelectorEntry I have another problem:09:54
plastunto get current text, I should to connect 'changed' event on TouchSelector, when typing text, this event emmits09:55
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plastunyes, I can block handler when focus-in event emitts for Entry, but how to know, when to unblock handler?09:56
meceplastun I think you should use value-changed instead09:58
Venemowell, you can already search for names if you start typing when you're at the desktop09:58
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plastunVenemo, can I use screen keyboard to search like using hardware keyboard?10:00
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SpeedEvildon't think so10:02
plastunmece, this signal unsupported for TouchSelector widget10:02
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Herwoodhi, has anyone tried running the widgets gallery app of harmattan ui fw in x86?10:04
plastunand general question, when i press Sym+@ shortcut, it say that layout swithced to another language, but when pressing the keys, old langiage used10:04
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meceplastun, yeah, noticed.10:07
Venemoplastun: isn't it ctrl+space?10:08
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meceplastun, apparently you're supposed to use a picker button for selecting from a TouchSelectorEntry10:12
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mecewhat should one do when an app getst stuck in the autobuilder?10:35
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DocScrutinizerplastun: there's only one kbd layout selection. the switching via sym-space only seems to affect the distionary used, plus maybe the encoding defined for mails etc10:40
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DocScrutinizeriirc russion version actually has a keybd layout switching option10:41
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plastunDocScrutinizer, if I set Russian layout ib Settings, than switching to Enf and back works fine10:42
plastunif End set by default, switching to Russian doesn't work10:42
DocScrutinizeryeah that's thoroughly screwed up10:43
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meceanyone here got flattr?10:52
shorterhow can you get the date and day next to the clock in maemo?10:53
shorterthe main desktop one, that is10:53
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meceshorter, there's a desktop clock?10:53
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shorterI mean the one on the top left10:54
meceshorter, I don't think so. uh I just thought of an idea. could show date instead of operator name!10:54
shorternot sure what you mean10:55
shorteralso, why does the app manager have to reload each time an app is installed?10:55
shortercan that be disabled; can the app manager be made faster?10:55
meceshorter, no idea about that.10:55
meceshorter disable testing and devel and it's a lot faster :)10:56
shorterah, but then it takes longer because almost everytime i go into app manager i want something from devel or testing10:56
meceshorter, anyway, the date thing. No there's not an option to display date there, and I want one.10:56
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shorterno reason it has to be way harder than my old ass phone10:56
meceshorter, so I figured I could make an app that replaces the opreator name (that is to the right of the battery/connection icons) with the date.10:57
shorterhave you used touchsearch at all?10:57
shorterit seems useless, but I'm not sure10:57
meceshorter, haven't used. Well it's a very simple app for searching the interwebs.10:57
shorteris it that much harder to just slip some date/day functionality next to the main clock?10:57
meceshorter, no idea really. But I know which operator I use, so I have no need for that text.10:58
shorteryeah, I'd do that for now too I guess10:58
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shorterwhat do you do about grouping/categorizing your contacts mece?11:01
meceshorter, I do nothing.11:01
* MohammadAG51 just found his facebook password in gconf, not impressed11:01
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shorterwtf? how MohammadAG51?11:02
shorteri guess it is truecrypt time then, eh?11:03
timeless_mbpMohammadAG51: so?11:03
timeless_mbpyour password is known by your device one way or the other11:03
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timeless_mbpany program running on your n900 will have access to your password11:04
timeless_mbpno matter what11:04
timeless_mbpyou really don't want facebook running as root just to protect your password11:04
timeless_mbpdon't give away your n900 to strangers, and try not to let it get stolen11:04
jacekowskibut then you could expect some daemon running as root11:04
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jacekowskipassword daemon11:05
meceDocScrutinizer, what does kwallet do?11:05
jacekowskiyeah, something like that11:05
jacekowskimece: encrypted password databse11:05
timeless_mbpwhat's the point11:05
mecejacekowski: I c11:06
timeless_mbpwe don't have enough stupid daemons wasting resources on our device?11:06
timeless_mbpyou want one more?11:06
timeless_mbphow does that help?11:06
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: safe and secure password storage11:06
shortertimeless_mbp, how do you manage daemons on it btw?11:06
timeless_mbpif i'm an evil application, i just knock off the good application and take your password11:06
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: no11:06
timeless_mbpshorter: i find a nice patch of sand and stick my head as far down into it as possible11:06
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: because password daemon will notice that you are not a good app11:06
timeless_mbphoping to get a longer neck each time11:06
timeless_mbpjacekowski: how would it do this?11:06
shorterthat doesnt help11:07
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jacekowskicheck path11:07
mecewell one thing that would be nice is to have the stuff encrypted and a login required instead the autologin it now uses. I guess that would add a level of security.11:07
timeless_mbpjacekowski: useles11:07
jacekowskifor example11:07
timeless_mbpif i knock it off, i've knocked it off11:07
timeless_mbpmost likely i'm going to poison its memory space11:07
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timeless_mbpbesides, i can steal the password once it gets it from the daemon11:08
timeless_mbpbecause we're all the same user11:08
timeless_mbpand you don't want to let facebook lock 100mb of memory pages11:08
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timeless_mbpmece: it would add a level of impracticality11:08
timeless_mbpand people will complain11:08
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timeless_mbpbut perhaps that's coming :)11:08
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timeless_mbpit's not a useful requirement for your typical end user11:09
DocScrutinizeractually there is no way to store secure pw on an insecure device. you either need master password, or you need TPM infra which nobody here really likes11:09
timeless_mbpand if we implement it, you can be assured it will be buggy11:09
timeless_mbpand we won't test it well enough11:09
timeless_mbpso we'll just get hundreds of bug reports11:09
timeless_mbpand not actually make anyone happy11:09
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: that's for kernel to protect11:09
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: that one app don't mess with other one11:09
Mece_timeless_mbp, I didn't mean for eveyone, only those that care about such.11:09
timeless_mbpalthough we'll be even more embarrassed11:09
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: and it's quite simple11:09
timeless_mbpjacekowski: i work on security in mozilla11:10
timeless_mbpand i've seen how security is or isn't done in maemo11:10
timeless_mbpsimple is um… an interesting myth11:10
MohammadAG51<timeless_mbp> MohammadAG51: so? plain text11:10
jacekowskiall you need is to run processes separetly11:10
timeless_mbpand DocScrutinizer's point is very important to keep in mind11:10
timeless_mbpjacekowski: bs11:10
jacekowskiand well, there isn't a lot of syscalls that can allow to mess with other process memeory11:10
timeless_mbpand again, in fremantle, any app that wants to be is effectively root11:11
timeless_mbpall i need is cat /proc/{pid}/mem or something11:11
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: that can be stopped11:11
timeless_mbpjacekowski: so why bother trying to add smoke and mirrors11:11
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: ptrace syscall can be blocked11:11
shortertpm infra?11:11
timeless_mbpsure, let's make the device even less developer friendly11:11
MohammadAG51hermes does the same for the twitter pass11:12
timeless_mbpthat's a winning proposition11:12
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: ehh, developer kernel, and user kernel11:12
timeless_mbpthat leads to hell11:12
timeless_mbpand it's also stupid11:12
timeless_mbpbecause it means that a hacker just carries around a dev kernel11:12
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: or even a thingy in /proc/sys to switch modes11:12
timeless_mbpand the user has not gained any actual protection11:12
timeless_mbpyou've just wasted an hour now and days discovering you've added no protection11:13
timeless_mbpand then when you realize we need TPM11:13
timeless_mbpyou run into DocScrutinizer's point11:13
timeless_mbpwhich is that everyone *hates* TPM11:13
jacekowskiwe don't need tpm11:13
jacekowskiwe just need ability to completly separate applications11:13
timeless_mbpw/o it, nothing prevents the bad guy from loading his own evil kernel11:13
timeless_mbpand if i steal your device, believe me, that's what i'll do11:13
DocScrutinizerbs! you need a crypting bootloader loading signed kernel which only runs signed apps11:13
DocScrutinizeris that your user kernel?11:14
timeless_mbp<panic evil kernel detected>11:14
jacekowskiwe don't want to protect user against that11:14
jacekowskibut against evil app stealing password11:14
timeless_mbpthen what the heck are you protecting against?11:14
timeless_mbpthat's pointless11:14
jacekowskior some flash/firefox/microb exploit11:14
jacekowskipulling out all passwords11:14
timeless_mbpthe evil app can just ask app manager to install a root process11:14
nextimein my opinion, if you steal your device the only one good protection is to have whole system with strong encryption11:15
timeless_mbpand then do its work11:15
timeless_mbpyou're just wasting resources tricking people into thinking they have protection11:15
timeless_mbpwhen they don't11:15
nextimeand no, tpm isn't a solution, i can't consider a solution something that for solve an issue introduce more issues11:15
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: that kind of stuff11:15
timeless_mbpat a minimum, we'd need to introduce the windows 7 priv escalation stuff11:15
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: maybe not as hardcore as using xen11:16
timeless_mbpwhich is something that management wasn't interested in11:16
nextimetimeless_mbp : selinux with strong MAC configurations11:16
timeless_mbpfor diablo/fremantle, they actively broken security protections in the browser to make installation of apps *easier*11:16
timeless_mbpnextime: which attackers interest you?11:16
timeless_mbpwhat if an attacker decides to write a kernel to the external mmc11:17
timeless_mbpand the n900 is configured to boot from there?11:17
nextimetimeless_mbp : the answer is to have whole system strong encryption11:17
jacekowskibut it isn't11:17
shorteris anyone working on maemo security?11:17
nextimeso, one can boot the kernel but can't read your fs11:17
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: there is so many not user evil options11:17
shorternextime, you try truecrypt yet?11:17
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: for example signed kernel11:17
timeless_mbpnextime: you want an ugly non localized or non updatable sign on system before the real kernel boots?11:17
nextimeshorter : no, but i use on ALL my systems luks/dm-crypt on whole system11:18
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timeless_mbpare you asking for signed kernel?11:18
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: that if you want to flash not signed kernel you can do it only over cable11:18
shorteryeah, I'd like to try it on the n900 though11:18
shorterI wonder how much it would hinder performance11:18
jacekowskinot at all11:18
timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure people have done it11:18
jacekowskiit would take little bit longer to boot11:18
timeless_mbpanyway, i think that tpm is coming11:19
shorterto have the whole fs encrypted (minus /boot of course)?11:19
timeless_mbpso you guys can all have your wishes11:19
jacekowskithat would be a lot slower11:19
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timeless_mbpbut i'm going to blame you guys for it!11:19
lbthmmm   stunning lack of interest in having a MeeGo autobuilder that builds Maemo11:19
timeless_mbpit's all your fault. you asked for it!11:19
timeless_mbplbt: hey11:19
lbto/ timeless_mbp11:19
timeless_mbpi want a mmc card that boots meego11:19
timeless_mbpcan you hook me up?11:19
lbtI've never even seen MeeGo running....11:20
nextimei want meego to die and maemo to go forward :)11:20
DocScrutinizeranyway if tpm is coming, then the FOSS is dead11:20
lbtnextime: tough11:20
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: blame jacekowski and MohammadAG51 :)11:20
lbtDocScrutinizer: if you let it happen, true11:20
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: you don't need tpm to do that stuff11:20
MohammadAG51wtf did I say to start discussion about a damn TPM11:21
jacekowski99% of it can be done in software11:21
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: bs11:21
MohammadAG51i said my pass was stored as plain text, sheesh11:21
timeless_mbpMohammadAG51: you complained about passwords being readable11:21
shorterwhat about default fs encryption and better physical locking features?11:21
jacekowskias long as you have piece of trusted software stored in rom11:21
MohammadAG51yes, I didn't discuss platform security11:21
timeless_mbpMohammadAG51: the platform has no security11:21
lbttpm isn't bad. Guns aren't bad11:21
jacekowskithat's all you need11:21
timeless_mbpyou're asking for obscurity11:21
timeless_mbpobscurity is pointless11:21
MohammadAG51I'm asking?11:22
timeless_mbpwell, the only reason one would comment about it is to be asking for it11:22
nextimethe problem on tpm is that you don't have a trusted software in rom, but nokia have it.11:22
jacekowskinextime: enough for our purposes11:22
timeless_mbpnextime: what, you don't trust nokia?11:22
DocScrutinizerdudes, please read about moto milestone and their crypted bootloader not loading the FOSS linux kernel you patched11:22
timeless_mbpfor shame!11:22
nextimejacekowski : not acceptable for my personal policies :)11:22
timeless_mbpsurely nokia would never hide anything from you11:23
nextimetimeless_mbp : i don't trust even my mother11:23
timeless_mbplike the hidden radio transceiver in the n80011:23
jacekowskiif they hide anything they could hide it in hardware as well11:23
shorterwe don't either nextime11:23
timeless_mbpi mean, we hid an entire radio in the n80011:23
nextimejacekowski: of course you right, but i need a border to my paranoia :)11:23
timeless_mbpand you're worrying about us hiding a few bits of code in rom11:23
timeless_mbpsilly rabbit11:24
jacekowskitimeless_mbp: seriously?11:24
lbtheh, you don't trust Nokia as your HW vendor.... but Chinese HW vendors.... they're fine ;)11:24
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timeless_mbpjacekowski: the n800 didn't list a radio as a feature11:24
shorterI don't get it, are you saying it is that easy to hide hardware?11:24
nextimetimeless_mbp: my point is that aren't usefull cause we can solve those issues in a more trusted way ( fs encryption )11:24
timeless_mbpbut it was there11:24
shortersurely they knew there was a radio...right?11:24
timeless_mbpshorter: it wasn't listed on the box11:24
timeless_mbpso, no, the customer didn't really know11:24
JaffaMorning, all11:24
lauriHello, could anyone comment why this Python snippet on N900 lags HORRIBLY:
timeless_mbpit took a while for others to discover it11:25
lbthi Jaffa11:25
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timeless_mbpshorter: anyway, see lbt's point11:25
timeless_mbpreally, if you don't trust your hardware vendor's software11:25
shorteryeah I know11:25
timeless_mbpwhy would you trust the hardware vendor's hardware11:26
shorterbut it seems n900 is closer to FOSS than anything now11:26
timeless_mbpit is11:26
* lbt disappointed about almost total lack of interest in OBS/Fremantle/Harmattan11:26
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nextimelauri : i don't know why it lags, but hey, don't use from import *11:26
timeless_mbpand not wasting time w/ security through obscurity is actually a good thing11:26
nextimeuse from foo import bar11:26
shorterfor sure11:26
shorterthere must be other options besides TPM, though11:26
timeless_mbpyou really don't want us to write out some magical passphrase11:26
lbtstill, I guess it's easier to bitch and moan than to do anything concrete about making it better....11:27
* lbt looks around pointedly11:27
timeless_mbpyou have no idea how poorly we've rot13d it11:27
laurinextime: I am using from foo import bar throughout the actual app11:27
timeless_mbplbt: i'm interested in it if someone will give me a meego mmc for my n90011:27
DocScrutinizerlbt: I found that mail great!11:27
timeless_mbplauri: oprofile?11:27
lbtDocScrutinizer:  thank you11:28
lbtDocScrutinizer: the future of is inside it IMHO11:28
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lbtif we don't do that then will languish11:28
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lauritimeless_mbp: on n900?11:29
lbtNokia *will* stop funding the autobuilder and other things11:29
DocScrutinizershorter: (other option) yes, use master password with a pw manager, and keep your system clean11:29
timeless_mbplauri: sure?11:29
lauritimeless_mbp: This issue appears only on n90011:29
laurinot on my laptop :S11:29
timeless_mbpright, so use it there11:29
timeless_mbphow do you think the browser team does perf work on the n900?11:30
timeless_mbpwow, you can even use eclipse w/ it :o11:30
timeless_mbpstupid device is too developer friendly11:30
timeless_mbpwe should rip that stuff out11:30
timeless_mbpand hide the documentation where no one can find it11:31
DocScrutinizerlbt: for quite a number of devel ML readers there's missing a URL to easily follow and contribute to the discussion on meego ML11:31
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lauriI'll bookmark this11:31
lbtDocScrutinizer: then please reply with it ;)11:31
lbtand your opinion too's a public call for opinions11:32
DocScrutinizerI think it's up to one of the OPs otherwise thread started11:32
DocScrutinizeron maemo devel ML11:33
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* lbt checks the rulebook....11:33
lbtit's fine.11:33
lbtyou can do it11:33
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DocScrutinizerlbt: "please discuss on meego ML" - it's absolutely reasonable request, but won't help if I start answering to the maemodevel ML mail11:39
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lbtthere you go11:42
achipalbt: regarding OBS - FWIW you have Council support for that (Andrew signed it, but it DOES cover all people in there). From a community perspective, I'm not sure what more we can do (if you know, do tell :)11:42
lbtachipa: well, we're asking for the MeeGo community to approve this11:43
lbtare you part of the MeeGo community?11:43
DocScrutinizerlbt: I suggest you answer to your own mail on maemodevel ML *only*, stating once more "please don't answer here. Rather you can follow the meego ML thread in  archives here ((URL)), and you subscribe to that ML there:((URL))"11:43
lbtie do you plan to run/develop for MeeGo?11:43
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achipalbt: well, if nothing else, it will be a good test of how much Maemo ancestry/respect means in MeeGo land these days11:44
lbtIf so then your opinion matters... even "yes, as a maemo dev coming to meego this is really important"11:44
lbtachipa: you don't get it :)11:44
lbt*YOU* are MeeGo11:44
* nextime doesn't want meego11:44
lbtDocScrutinizer: done11:44
lbtnextime: *YOU* don't matter ;)11:45
nextimelbt : sadly, i know11:45
* MohammadAG51 doesn't wants MeeGo too11:45
achipalbt: Uh. I'm in a sensitive position here. I *AM* going to increase involvement with MeeGo, but still not sure about the modality11:45
nextimea see meego like a borg11:45
lbtnextime: actually, as has been said before, MeeGo killed Mer because it is Mer11:45
nextime"resistence is futile, you will be assimilated"11:45
nextimebut i hate it11:45
lbtachipa: not sure I understand?11:46
nextimelbt : false, meego isn't mer11:46
MohammadAG51I hate RPM, not meego :P11:46
nextimeMohammadAG51 : me too.11:46
lbtnextime: in many ways it is11:46
lbtre rpms.... me too11:46
nextimelbt : not in the way i like more on mer/maemo: the debian derived base11:46
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lbtyou should see the source code for the MeeGo release management reporting tools... ;)11:47
lbtnextime: that's fine... I run debian on my desktop and won't change that11:47
nextimelbt : i use debian too on all my machine from when debian exists...11:47
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lbtMeeGo pushes upstream and so will help Debian too11:47
lbtnextime: sure, fine.11:47
achipalbt: I'm pretty certain that my current position is not transferable. Will I code for fun and be on the lists ? Certainly.11:48
lbtyou matter then11:48
nextimelbt : right, but it lose the debian like userland feeling11:48
lbtnextime: yep11:48
nextimethat is what i love and what make me buy an n90011:48
lbtnextime: although I'm working on bringing the Debian policies to MeeGo11:48
lbtif you don't care enough about those policies... that's fine too11:49
nextimelbt : work also to change the package management :)11:49
lbtI don't see that as important11:49
lbtI see improving it as important11:49
lbtand making it as robust as Debian11:49
DocScrutinizer2I really can't see what's wrong with RPM11:49
nextimelbt : i see that as so important that i think in fuure i will sel-rebuild all packages from meego in .deb to use it on my device...11:49
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer2, it's really slow on the N900 tbh11:50
achipaDocScrutinizer2: It's not DEB11:50
DocScrutinizer2yum is just fine for users11:50
MohammadAG51yum is slow11:50
MohammadAG51it tooks 5 minutes to install xchat on the N90011:50
nextimedocscrunizer: nothing is wrong with rpm. It is just my personal feeling with maemo, i've buyed my n900 PRIMARLY cause of apt11:50
DocScrutinizer2and apt is lightning fast, heh?11:50
MohammadAG51with a fedora chroot11:50
nextimeso, losing apt is a really BAD thing for me11:50
MohammadAG51it's faster11:50
nextimeonly this11:50
lbtDocScrutinizer2:  vs
lbtthat is what is wrong with RPM11:51
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achipaMohammadAG51: well... the app manager is not a speed champion, deb or rpm11:51
MohammadAG51achipa, I was using apt-get and yum when I compared11:51
DocScrutinizer2lbt: granted. this may be fixed though11:51
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nextimeDocScrutinizer2: also, i have my own deb repositories, i don't want to have to put online ALSO a rpm repo11:51
MohammadAG51an app manager would just make it slower11:51
lbtrpm is underdocumented, poorly policied and badly adhered to11:51
lbtDocScrutinizer2: and so it can... which is why I don't care that we use it11:52
achipaMohammadAG51: still, those are not the primary ways of installing stuff11:52
lbtand why I'm working on policy transfer11:52
DocScrutinizer2nextime: that's a really poor argument11:52
achipaMohammadAG51: plus, there should be some difference between yum and zypper11:52
achipabut... we're getting #meego now :)11:52
nextimeDocScrutinizer2: generally speaking yes, but for ME it isn't poor argument11:52
achipalbt: that goes for Python in general. Having to write an open letter of support to have Python officially in Harmattan and MeeGo gives me shivers11:53
lbtit could be python11:54
Mece_x-fade, ping11:54
MohammadAG51achipa, well, couldn't find zypper on fedora so... :)11:54
lbtbut all the rpm tools are written in python so that's no excuse11:54
* lbt goes to do some real work :) l8r..... and please engage on the meego-community ml :)11:54
DocScrutinizer2lbt: o/11:54
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achipalbt: ok, will do a 'lbt for president !' post11:56
nextimelbt : as a pythonist myself, the python base of the rpm tools is the only positive point i ca see :) anyway, i also have to to some more productive work. Bye all.11:56
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lbtnextime: the lack of docs is my complaint11:57
lcukachipa, there are worse places david could be stuck in :p12:00
achipalcuk: like the Community Council ? :P12:01
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lcuklol :p12:04
Mece_so what should I do with my stuck package? would a bugreport help?12:05
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lcukMece_, its stuck?12:06
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Mece_lcuk, well i never got "package imported"12:07
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lcukMece_, yesterday there were some issues on - perhaps related and not all services back online12:08
lcukMece_, wheres the packages page you are looking at12:08
Mece_lcuk, well actually, it is n the repos, but the instance is not properly updated on the site.12:09
sivangachipa: but if rpm is used in meego, and is heavily based on Python, wouldn't it go without saying that Python needs official support on the platform?12:09
lcukMece_, url12:09
sivangachipa: or maybe I'm missing something.12:09
achipasivang: talking about application level (community and Ovi)12:10
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lcukok Mece_ so it was last night, you say its in the repo?  its just the packages ui isnt showing it?12:11
sivangachipa: why is application level python not supported? If it is there for the rpm toolchain, then it is there for the rest of the userland no?12:11
achipasivang: on Fremantle the issue is also not that it doesn't exist, but that it's not official (which has sideeffects like that ovi won't accept you)12:11
achipasivang: hey, I'm no Ovi guy, ask them12:11
Mece_lcuk, yep. I got update notification in ham.12:11
sivangachipa: yes, I know about Ovi.12:11
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sivangachipa: I think OVI will change for MeeGo if it is going to be used as an app source, e.g. accept python as well12:12
achipasivang: also, note that just having python itself is not the question here. If all the python-* packages don't have a proper treatment, then it's not worth much12:12
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sivangachipa: true, so we need official maintainership12:12
achipasivang: I think Ovi has no contact with either community or commercial developers (talking mainly about python here)12:13
lcukMece_, its likely related to yesterday and doesnt sound too heavy (obviously not ideal)  when X-Fade appears later if hes on just see if it was expected after the outages12:13
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sivangah, so I see maemo's bugzilla does allow for community application to use its services?
achipasivang: so I'm afraid it will be 'why didn't you say so' AFTER MeeGo ships12:13
sivangas an example12:13
achipahence the open letter12:13
sivangachipa: the open letter was a good idea. I'm sure people will treat it seriously.12:14
Mece_lcuk, ok. It's only a problem because I want to promote to testing.12:14
Mece_sivang, yep. just email andre if you want it there.12:14
lcukMece_, checked for similar things ?12:14
lcukto see how it was handled in the past perhaps12:15
Mece_lcuk, haven't done that. I'll check later.12:15
achipaX-Fade: I know you probably have more important things to do, but when in an agressive mood, nuke
achipa(same story as hoopsfrenzy)12:16
lcukachipa, wow i would never be able to track irc things like that :P12:16
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sivangMece_: Why was it mentioned some time ago in one of the meego meetings that community applications are not given resources for issues and related?12:21
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andre__sivang, what do you need? :)12:24
* andre__ too lazy to read the backlog12:24
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sivangandre__: Not much at this point :-) But some support once I upload a specific demo app to the repo, I was alos curious to know what are the current issues with the process that brought it to that meeting. I need to review the logs again.12:26
andre__if you need a product in see . for everything else I have no idea :)12:26
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sivangachipa: There's nothing in the open letter to mention Python support..missing something again? :)12:27
sivangachipa: (I mean, I am )12:27
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achipasivang: it's not out yet, will be probably later today (syncing with other council members, etc)12:28
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sivangachipa: ah, youre open letter to support python? if you want to get more rationale (some stuff I learnt from the field dealing with development customers) let me know.12:29
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achipasivang: thanks, though I think it might be better if rationales or support of our... support :) might be better on-line (just so that the announcement doesn't go by as a tumbleweed)12:31
achipa(on-line = on lists, talk, etc)12:31
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achipa= I would like to avoid a 10 page document nobody will read, when the essence is fairly short and non-technical12:32
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sivangachipa: cool, so once sent to the ML, I will respond and add my 2c of field experience with developing customers there.12:33
achipa(but of course provide all the additional info and rationale in whatever form possible)12:33
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sivangachipa: interest in prototyping , and production POCs (as in python being used to build an app to hit the market quick, and then converted to compiled language once critical mass is reached etc)12:34
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sivangandre__: sure thing, thanks! :)12:37
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sivangandre__: you know, what's even more interesting, is how Python is given as an example for a device to widen the developer community in the Qt for Symbian book , where there it explains it is readily available on the S60 and Linux based platforms from Nokia12:44
sivangandre__: the book starts with emphasisng how important it is to widen the developer community and gives examples for the ways you can tackel this:QT C++, WRT, PyS60, PyMaemo and PySide.12:45
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sivangandre__: ahh op12:45
sivangandre__: oops :)12:46
sivangachipa: ^^^12:46
achipasivang: Yes, that is one of the reasons we're doing this - the 'developer' arm of Nokia is not only aware but invested (and invests) a lot of work in Python (see the projects you mention above) but it seems sometimes concrete feedback from outside Nokia can be helpful, to help intra-Nokia decision (i.e. Ovi people being out of touch :))12:49
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dnearyYou know the PR 1.2 SMS issue?13:05
lcukmorning dave13:05
dnearyI didn't have that13:05
lcukwhat issue.. ?13:05
Venemowhat SMS issue?13:05
dnearyMyNokia sign-up is compulsory13:05
dnearysign-up sends SMS13:05
dnearyThat one13:05
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Venemodneary: that is not an "SMS issue"13:06
dnearyVenemo, Well, that's what I'm calling it :)13:07
Venemodneary: I thought you meant there was an issue with sending SMSs13:07
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dnearyThe MyNokia issue, if you prefer13:07
Venemoyes, I prefer13:07
Venemothank you :P13:07
dnearyYou just take out your SIM card before booting 1.213:07
dnearyNo registration13:07
Ikarusit is an issue13:08
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IkarusI still want Nokia to pay me back for that and to destroy any data on me13:08
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barisionedoes anybody know which process reads the /etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf file?13:09
Saviqbarisione: sounds like pulseaudio, no?13:10
Saviqcan anyone please tell me if/where can I find automake-1.11 in the scratchbox?13:10
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X-FadeSaviq: Only 1.10 as max.13:10
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barisioneit's actually a link to /usr/share/policy/etc/rx51/pulse/xpolicy.conf13:10
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barisioneand it's maybe read by an ohm plugin13:11
barisionebut I'm not sure13:11
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Saviqbarisione: it's definitely a pulse policy file13:12
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chem|stdneary: doesn't it register the minute you put in your sim?13:16
dnearychem|st, not if you squash the cherry13:17
chem|stand what was that gnome spam about btw13:17
barisioneSaviq_afk: but handled by what? pulseaudio directly? ohm? an ohm plugin?13:18
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DocScrutinizerbarisione: tried lsof?13:19
barisioneit's not open atm13:20
barisioneprobably it's read at boot and closed13:20
barisioneso no info13:20
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DocScrutinizerprobably it's read whenever new policy is enforced13:21
sivangachipa: we need to invite OVI people for some barbeque day at the Virgin Isalnds and show them how importnt python is :)13:22
DocScrutinizerso switching from hanset to speakerphone and back should give you an opportunity to trace. Also maybe temporarily rename the file and see who's blowing chunks?13:23
sivangachipa: It is quite amazing to see how much effort and invetment Nokia puts into Python and still that open letter needs to be sent :)13:23
achipasivang: indeed13:23
sivangachipa: I guess what we need here is more patience, Nokia is a great and large company and so things are addressed slowly but surely13:24
sivangachipa: I don't think there's such a python offering for development on other platforsm, is therE?13:24
DocScrutinizerbut surely? muhaha13:24
achipasivang: nope (jailbreaks and hackery notwithstanding)13:25
sivangachipa: exactly :)13:25
sivangDocScrutinizer: see the wide offering, and also, things are happening. PySide happened, Maemo happened as well :)13:25
achipasivang: and especially not with FULL system integration (system libs, UI bindings, etc)13:25
sivangachipa: right, I shut my iPhone freinds mouths everytime they say something and I show them how much contorl I have :)13:26
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* DocScrutinizer humbly points to v1 (entirely python) on Openmoko13:28
Venemoachipa: could you tell me what's the problem with Python, and what is this open letter thing all about?13:28
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* kirma eyes maemo wiki page stating that n900 camera is seriously diffraction limited13:33
kirmaas far as I understand, it's not really too diffraction limited when taking into account the fact that on bayer filter based camera, value of a single sensor pixel doesn't represent the actual color resolution of the device13:34
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RST38hwhat is color resolutionanyway?13:36
sivangDocScrutinizer: what do you mean it is entrily python? and it is said there that it can be used on Maemo and MeeGo ?13:36
achipaVenemo: Python is not an officially supported language/runtime on Maemo/MeeGo. We want to support it becoming one (so you could submit Python(/Python-Qt) apps to Ovi, with the side-effect of working out a way of how to mediate shared libs/runtimes between Ovi and Extras13:36
kirmawell, I mean, if the camera would be strictly monochromatic, it would be diffraction limited13:36
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kirmabut demosaicing causes closest pixels of same color to be further away than immediately next to each other anyway13:37
RST38heven when it is not monochromatic, it is still diffraction limited13:37
achipaVenemo: currently, it's in Extras and has the status of community support (even though PyMaemo and PySide are mostly Nokia/subcontractor projects)13:37
RST38hkirma: you are simply going to get chromatic aberrations as result of the same diffraction13:37
RST38hkirma: So, no free lunch13:38
kirmaof course13:38
kirmabut whole claim of "five megapixels" and equating that with good-quality rgb data on every pixel is just so misleading imho ;)13:38
* RST38h doubts diffraction the the problem with those shitty phone cameras13:38
kirmamost probably not13:38
RST38hPlain heat noise dwarfs whatever you are getting from diffraction13:39
lcukkirma, not that it matters, camera saves jpegs by default13:39
RST38hlcuk: you can save a pretty decent jpeg13:39
achipaDocScrutinizer: let's just limit ourselves to (mainstream) mobile platforms with commercial repositories13:39
RST38hlcuk: so, jpeg compression is also not a large factor13:39
sivangachipa: ;)13:40
kirmacamera outputs raw 10-bit data to be exact... software does stuff and rapes it to jpegs after demosaicing and all ;)13:40
DocScrutinizer2achipa: what?13:40
achipaDocScrutinizerhumbly points to v1 (entirely python) on Openmoko13:40
RST38hlcuk: main probles are 1) tiny sensor and 2) shitty optics13:40
DocScrutinizer2<achipa> DocScrutinizer: let's just limit ourselves to (mainstream) mobile platforms with commercial repositories13:40
RST38hlcuk: Both od these are directly related to the need to have a flat camera module13:40
sivangRST38h: I wonder how the camera is on N8/913:40
RST38hsivang: probably as shitty.13:41
sivangRST38h: on 9 as well?13:41
achipaRST38h: shitty or not, it's not diffraction limited. Or you don't calculate diffraction limited the way I do :)13:41
kirmakernel-userland inteface actually provides only that 10bpp bayer-filtered sensor data, but somehow they have managed to write gstreamer stuff to not expose this directly, even if v4l2 does13:41
RST38hlcuk: The only known way to avoid this limitation has been used in N93/N93i13:41
lcukRST38h, the camera is most certainly not shitty13:41
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RST38hlcuk: Where the whole camera is located along the edge of the device13:41
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lcukits better than any ive had on a *phone*13:42
RST38hlcuk: It *is* shitty. No zoom. Most details are smeared, even in daylight13:42
RST38hlcuk; Yes, it is pretty good for a phone13:42
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RST38hlcuk: But compare it with, let us say, a little Casio P&S (definitely not the best camera around), and you will see what I mean13:42
alteregowhat repo is screen in? I can't find it anywhere ...13:42
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DocScrutinizer2achipa: mobile platform: OM-Y, maemo-Y, commercial repository: what's that? mainstream: OM-N, maemo-N13:43
RST38hlcuk: The current N900 camera can be at best compared with Samsung or GE P&Ses13:43
jacekowskiX-Fade: are you there?13:43
lcukRST38h, completely different, even compact dedicated cameras have more space for light13:43
kirmathe camera module on n900 can, btw, provide over 12fps on full-sensor resolution13:43
lcukerrr lens thingy13:43
RST38hlcuk: I.e. absolutely bottom side of the range13:43
RST38hlcuk: Well, as I said, the problem is thast you have to keep it flat13:43
* lcuk sees things differently13:43
RST38hlcuk: And yes, you can avoid this by placing your camera module alonge the edge of the device13:44
achipaDocScrutinizer: exactly, that's what we are saying, Maemo/MeeGo does NOT have it and there is no reason (technical) for not having it13:44
kirmatoo bad that happens to be 80 MBps of raw data that nothing really can compress, but it should be possible to do some other nifty things13:44
RST38hlcuk: or here:
lcukRST38h, sure, thats got a lens and sensor large enough to let in ample light13:45
lcukkirma, really13:45
DocScrutinizer2achipa: mhm. I just don't see the point in the whole debate13:45
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kirmalcuk: really what?13:46
achipaRST38h: Some people tell me my Yaris is the bottom side of the range (the exact expression was toy-car). I look around and it's the best car in the street. Depends on your reference point, I guess.13:46
lcuk12fps full resolution13:46
hajmmmmm .. Yaris13:46
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lcukachipa, exactly13:46
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kirmaI tried through gstreamer, and saw something like 5fps, but the camera module alone is capable of 12fps... dunno about the hardware around it, exactly13:47
RST38hachipa: Yaris still gets you between points A and B13:47
lcukwhat resolution?13:47
wazdeverybody seen fake n9 promo? :)13:47
kirmashould really write direct v4l2 tests to experiment with it13:47
hajachipa: I have a Yaris... mostly I ride my bicycle though (Live in Copenhagen)13:47
lcukRST38h, and n900 camera takes excellent shots without carrying another camera13:47
achipaDocScrutinizer: the point is that Ovi DOES want to be a serious commercial channel and MeeGo DOES want to a mainstream platform, and Python (with bindings) DOES exist, and yet... no commercial Python apps are possible13:47
RST38hachipa: To get a decent photo with an N900 you have to have lighting conditions exactly right and be very lucky too13:47
sivangRST38h: I've takens ome amazing photos with it, comapred even to a normal non prof digicam13:47
hajachipa: If it had been any bigger I'd have to spend a lot more time trying to find a place to park it... ;)13:47
kirmalcuk: my experiment was with 5 megapixels, 25xx*19xx whatever13:48
lcuksivang, indeed13:48
lcukkirma, interesting13:48
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lcukkirma, 5fps is very very nice if capable13:49
RST38hsivang: Of course you may have taken good photos with it. It is just that the percentage of such photos is kinda low13:49
kirmaI didn't store the data anywhere, but when I have more time (I wish!) I should write v4l2 code to experiment both the direct access and writing it so that the peak performance can be measured13:49
lcukat least for full res13:49
mecex-fade, thanks, if you did something. Either way the package (qlister 0.2-6) appeared in the page now.13:49
lcukRST38h, some people are optimists - i gather you arent one :p13:49
kirmacouple raw frames can be held in memory, and by any measure, it should be possible with NEON etc to do quite a bit per frame to select a "good" one out of three, for instance13:50
pexiachipa, they want you to know linux system programming and not to use the rapid develop of innovations13:50
RST38hlcuk: Yeo, that too13:50
lcukkirma, im thinking object detection requiring full resolution images13:50
RST38hlcuk: But I also tried using N900 camera and most results I have got are pretty dismal13:50
pexiachipa, for reasons beyond me13:50
RST38hlcuk: for a camera, not for a phone, of course13:50
kirmalcuk: depends on your definition of "object detection"13:51
lcukkirma, i have my ideas :)13:51
achipalet me explain the Yaris thing. People say it's dangerous because mine has a 990 cc engine and that I tempt fate every time I try to take over someone. True, a bigger engine, sportier features would help (well, not on Serbian roads, but I digres). But the Yaris is not a sportscar. That's the point. Ditto for the N900 cam module. It's not a photo camera.13:51
kirmalcuk: the camera module spec is here:
lcukRST38h, me and girlfriend went away for a short break recently13:51
lcukwe both had n900s13:51
lcukwe both took photos of the same things ish13:52
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achipabut the N900 cam DOES get you from point A to point B13:52
lcukmy photos turned out crap and blurry13:52
meceachipa, the yaris is good and boring, while the n900 is perhaps a bit sketchy, but very exciting though.13:52
lcukhers (385/290 actually) turned out really well13:52
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meceachipa, IMO13:52
lcukmost camera photography issues are down to the operator13:52
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* lcuk knows hes a crap cameraman13:52
RST38hlcuk: Drink less :)13:52
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Venemoalterego: are you here?13:53
RST38hlcuk: I have no problem with the blur. I also have no problems making photos with a real camera.13:53
achipamece: after Yugos and Fiat 126s, I can tell you the Yaris is VERY exciting :D13:53
lcukRST38h, wasnt drinkning, was justclosest to a real comparative test i can give you with different results13:53
pexin900 is rather like an italian sports car than japanese people transporter13:53
Venemoachipa: thanks for your explanation, and sorry for my late response13:53
RST38hlcuk: But whatever I take with the N900 is only suitable for posting on the web13:53
RST38hlcuk: Not to mention thumbnailer kicking in after the first few photos and making the device unusuable for a few minutes13:54
lcukRST38h, we have printed lots of ours out and have saved memories with it :)13:54
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meceachipa, Fiat 126 is pretty exciting, as int if I crash, will I die or simply be horribly disfigured :D13:54
achipaRST38h: yes, the thumbnailer should be put to death, no complaints there13:54
lcukand if thats not what a camera is for then i dont know what it is13:54
infobotmece meant: achipa, Fiat 126 is pretty exciting, as in if I crash, will I die or simply be horribly disfigured :D13:54
pexifiat 126.. legendary13:54
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pexioh teh horror13:54
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achipamece: yeah, I know the feeling. I have to go 150+ in the Yaris to get the wobbly feel of a 126 at 80 :D13:55
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Venemohey alterego, are you there? :P13:55
* RST38h looks up Fiat126 and suddenly recognizes what that thing is13:55
achipaand I did kiss the ground on two occasions after getting out of my (ex) 12613:55
RST38hThat sucker is based on Fiat 500, isn't it?13:56
jacekowskimece: well, fiat 126p is a quite safe car13:56
jacekowskimece: engine is on the back13:57
* sivang wants an Austin Powers' Mini.13:57
jacekowskimece: so if somebody hits you into the back he will meet quite heavy engine first and then another meter away is driver seat13:57
DocScrutinizer2kirma: lcuk: RST38h: take 12fps while moving focus, and possibly with a 1,4,1,4 sensitivity sequence. Then bufer to RAM in RAW and select the best shot *after* lucky-luke-shooting a pic13:57
alteregoVenemo: you want me to help with you home view issue right? Well, good news, I'm back at home and have my proper computer. Bad news, I'm a bit hung over and I'm about to jump in the shower. Can you hold on about 45 mkinutes for me to sort myself out? :P13:57
jacekowskimece: and there is huge crumple zone in front13:58
lcukDocScrutinizer2, i dont want to take best shot, i want to process live images13:58
lcukso effectively using as much data as can get13:58
jacekowskimece: and you can't get it to any dangerous speeds anyways13:58
DocScrutinizer2lcuk: still my suggestion would avoid autofocus delay13:58
lcukim not interested in saving the favorite after13:58
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lcukactually take the combination of photos during the AF selection13:59
achipajacekowski: if someone hits you in the back, you won't have a neck to turn around to see what happened13:59
DocScrutinizer2lcuk: HDR also possible that way13:59
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RST38hlcuk: Anyway, let me give you an example13:59
RST38hlcuk: sunny day, panorama, no shake13:59
jacekowskiachipa: nope13:59
jacekowskiachipa: engine is heavy and far away from you13:59
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jacekowskiachipa: so lot of energy will be absorbed by it14:00
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achipajacekowski: I was getting at the seats - no whiplash protection AT all14:00
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kirmalcuk: the camera module specification document says 5 megapixels is possible at 12.92 fps... I don't know if OMAP3 ISP or other stuff on N900 supports that14:01
jacekowski5mbit*12 = 60mbit/s14:01
DocScrutinizer2kirma: I'd guess the OMAP video IF can cope with that14:01
jacekowskino way it will handle it14:01
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kirmajacekowski: no, 5*12.92*1014:02
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achipajacekowski: as for the front... I did have a frontal crash as a passenger with an Audi into a (luckily only parked and completely empty) 126. The impact didn't even trigger the Audi's airbags, but in the 126, the steering wheel was touching the seat. That's when I switched from the 126 to a Yaris.14:02
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RST38hlcuk: Magnify and check out the details14:03
kirmaactually more like 6*12.92*10 because there is padding stuff14:03
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DocScrutinizer2jacekowski: and what is your claim of "OMAP can't cope with 60MBit" based on?14:03
DocScrutinizer2jacekowski: look at USB214:04
kirmaCCP2 rate listed on the data sheet for that more is 640 MBps... still something that OMAP3 should be able to handle I guess14:05
lcukRST38h, im viewing through vnc14:05
lcukit is meaningless14:05
Venemoalterego: sure, np14:05
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer2: but then you have to process it14:06
DocScrutinizer2jacekowski: nobody wants to process that14:06
DocScrutinizer2jacekowski: ""...  Then buffer to RAM in RAW and select the best shot *after* lucky-luke-shooting a pic""14:07
jacekowskii just calculated it incorrectly14:07
achipaI recall seeing some bechmarks of the zoom2 doing about 7.5fps in full resolution...14:08
DocScrutinizer2still incorrect14:08
achipa(that's a 3430 with a 8mpix cam IIRC)14:08
DocScrutinizer2[2010-06-16 13:02:31] <kirma> jacekowski: no, 5*12.92*1014:08
jacekowskiwhy *10?14:08
DocScrutinizer2see backscroll14:08
kirmajacekowski: not 24 bit, raw pixel values are 10 bit, and they're whatever the color component on the bayer filter happens to be for that pixel :)14:08
DocScrutinizer2I'm not your backscroll grep14:08
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kirmaachipa: "zoom2" ? hm?14:09
jacekowskiso you have 600Mbits14:09
achipakirma: TI's reference OMAP3 device14:09
jacekowskithat would fill n900 ram in 4s14:09
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jacekowskiassuming that you can use all14:09
DocScrutinizer23s more than needed14:09
kirmaachipa: I see14:10
achipaa sort of 'official' beagleboard14:10
hajHm .. even though it would be "piracy" it would be nice if Vagalume could just save all tracks regardless of copyright... But I guess that tracks are downloaded seperate from the stream.. ?14:10
kirmathe point of "full-frame video", for me, would be having a back-buffer of couple raw frames which could be quickly analyzed, and the selecting the "best"14:10
jacekowskihaj: well, it's legal to record anything on radio14:11
jacekowskikirma: define analysed14:11
kirmamemory bandwidth and NEON/SGX performance of OMAP3 should be more than ample to perform some analysis/rescaling for live ~13 fps stream14:11
jacekowskikirma: at HD resolution14:12
DocScrutinizer2kirma: also with DSP you could probably implement picture stabilization easily14:12
hajjacekowski: actually there is a vagalume plugin for saving all tracks... but I guess it would require porting to run on the N900 ;)14:12
lcukkirma, wicked!14:12
kirmajacekowski: simple rescaling, viewfinder "demosaicing" (not really it), blurriness estimate14:12
jacekowski2,576 x 1,936 pixels14:12
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jacekowski1080p is 1920x108014:13
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jacekowskiwhich is less than half of n900 camera resolution14:13
kirmaabsolutely no meaningful video compression could be achieved, though, but some individual-image/rescaled image-to-image analysis might be possible to perform14:14
jacekowskinot in realtime14:15
DocScrutinizer2kirma: diff is surely possible14:15
jacekowskiso it might be that it takes some images14:15
DocScrutinizer2jacekowski: why not ?14:15
jacekowskiprocess them14:15
jacekowskiand then couple seconds later you get ready photo14:16
lcukedge and feature detection analysis is possible certainly14:16
DocScrutinizer2jacekowski: exactly14:16
jacekowskibut that's not realtime14:16
DocScrutinizer2lcuk: also exactly14:16
jacekowskiand thing is14:16
jacekowskiwhy photos are fucked up?14:16
jacekowskibecause it's out of focus14:16
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DocScrutinizer2so ?14:16
meceachipa, anywaaaay,
kirmajacekowski: it really depends mostly on memory bandwidth usage, one has to choose algorithms meaningfully and the sizes of rescaled images where they are applied in a sensible way... and then choosing the full-frame raw data for further processing on that basis14:17
jacekowskitaking more photos with same focus setting is not going to fix the problem14:17
achipado you want to bracket foxus ?14:17
DocScrutinizer2jacekowski: [2010-06-16 12:57:46] <DocScrutinizer2> kirma: lcuk: RST38h: take 12fps while moving focus, and possibly with a 1,4,1,4 sensitivity sequence. Then bufer to RAM in RAW and select the best shot *after* lucky-luke-shooting a pic14:17
lcukjacekowski, photos are screwed up often by user error :p14:17
lcuki cant take a decent photo14:17
lcukever with any camera14:17
jacekowskihow fast n900 can focus?14:17
lcukbut my missus makes even a disposable camera look good14:17
jacekowskiit's electronic14:17
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jacekowskibut you have to send command to chip over i2c14:18
MohammadAGI make a 10MP cam look rubbish14:18
DocScrutinizer2jacekowski: please don't start to get silly now14:18
jacekowskiit will not fix MohammadAG's problem14:18
lcukthats because hes special14:19
MohammadAGand he owns a fscked up uSD card :)14:19
jacekowskiMohammadAG: how you managed to do it?14:19
DocScrutinizer2~ MohammadAG14:19
infobot[mohammadag] special14:19
MohammadAGjacekowski, not really sure, running fsck14:20
MohammadAGto fix it14:20
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kirmaI'm quite intrigued by full frame panorama stitching, potentially even without stopping the camera movement (when it's sufficiently slow). I think that's in some aspects too much to hope to work, but implementing things directly on the raw-sensor bitstream, multithreaded operation with intelligent buffering and sdhc card writing and all might give impressive results nonetheless14:22
kirmabut probably I don't have time to work at it ;)14:22
manjiriut_mvirtualkeyboard.o: In function `Ut_MVirtualKeyboard::cleanupTestCase()': ut_mvirtualkeyboard.cpp:(.text+0xc43): undefined reference to `MPlainWindow::instance()'14:22
RST38hlcuk: Oh14:23
manjirithis is the error I am getting while 'making' duikeyboard14:23
RST38hlcuk: Well, if you do not look through vnc, you will see that most of the landscape is basically made of spots14:23
manjiriwhich is part of harmattan UI framework14:23
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RST38hlcuk: probably indicating a really bad lense14:23
manjiriAnybody has any suggestions?14:23
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DocScrutinizer2kirma: one full rotation in 2s, taking 12fps, that should give nice panorama14:25
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kirmaDocScrutinizer2: not really feasible. I'm thinking of something more on the range of full turn in 20 seconds...14:26
DocScrutinizer2kirma, why isn't 2s not feasible?14:27
lcukmotion blur!14:27
kirmathe motion blur at that speed is around one pixel at 1/1000 second exposure, which is smallest I've seen on the phone with sunny photography on the phone14:27
DocScrutinizer2hmm, that's what I thought about14:27
DocScrutinizer2but that depends on exposure time largely14:28
RST38hlcuk: in all directions?14:28
DocScrutinizer2kirma: which is good ebough I'd say14:28
RST38hlcuk: with the close-by grass not shoing any blur?14:28
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RST38hlcuk: looks like a really bad lense to me14:29
kirmainterestingly enough, of course, if one would be able to perform motion estimation precisely during the operation, one could stack up data from multiple low-exposure frames on the fly, but I doubt if that can be accomplished14:29
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DocScrutinizer2actually you can even postprocess compensate for a known motion blurr14:30
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DocScrutinizer2seen this some years ago, no idea what the rather complex mathematics behind it were14:30
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kirmapostprocessing is of course possible, and with good actual-data based motion estimate, it could be good, but motion blur of more than couple pixels would be already hard to keep acceptable14:31
DocScrutinizer2think it was based on virtual inverse holographics14:32
kirmaNEON, DSP and SGX GPU have computing power sufficient to do many things on the phone, but still pretty limited amount when doing them in real time...14:33
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DocScrutinizer2kirma: well, you say 1pixel@1/1000s14:33
kirmaroughly on that ballpark14:34
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DocScrutinizer21 << couple14:36
kirmamy thought of how things can be done is mostly based on the idea that array and whole picture processing is efficient (and feasibly writable in comparison to DSP) on NEON, and stuff involving texture lookup based processing is most efficient on SGX GPU14:37
manjiriHi, has anybody tried compiling virtual keyboard thats part of Harmattan UI Framework?14:37
RST38hkirma: Once again, CPUs are not the bottleneck in mobile devices14:38
RST38hkirma: Memory is14:38
kirmaDMA transfers to SDHC card are relatively fast (one uncompressed full frame per second or so), and transfer of incoming frames should also be relatively free from CPU load viewpoint14:38
kirmabut of course, if one can't get something like that to run nicely on 8-way desktop system with latest GPU, don't try it on the phone :)14:39
HerwoodHi, has anyone tested Harmattan UI framework's widget gallery app? I'm having terribly low fps (2-3) and I was wondering that is it normal.14:40
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Stskeepsis it software rendering?14:41
crashanddiekirma: what size of frame?14:41
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HerwoodI have dual core cpu, but it seems to suck all the power from it14:41
achipa'device using more power than it is receiving' - that's a new one...14:42
kirmacrashanddie: 2592x1968 at 10bps14:42
StskeepsHerwood: software rendering will suck horridly. ask w00t14:42
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* w00t_ reads up14:43
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HerwoodStskeeps: oh :( is there any way to get it run with hw rendering at x86?14:43
RST38hachipa: has been a while14:43
w00t_Herwood: how new is your build of libmeegotouch?14:43
RST38hachipa: usually when charging from USB14:43
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Herwoodw00t_: I cloned it yesterday from gitorius14:44
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w00t_okay, what are you running? widgetgallery?14:44
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achipaRST38h: have not met it before, but as they say, if you're young enough, every joke is new :)14:44
Herwoodand it's really slow :P14:44
w00t_Herwood: are you passing -software?14:44
moduleshello, is it possible to use a usb webcam with n900?14:45
w00t_(widgetsgallery -software, that is)14:45
Herwoodw00t_: hmm, I haven't tried that one14:45
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alteregomodules: does the N900 currently have a host USB port?14:45
Herwoodw00t_: Oujea! It works like a charm! Thanks!14:46
manjiriHi, has anybody tried compiling virtual keyboard thats part of Harmattan UI Framework?14:46
w00t_Herwood: np14:46
alteregomodules: put another way, where on the N900 would you plug it in?14:46
DocScrutinizer2achipa: means your battery will be empty eventually, if you don't stop that usage pattern14:46
w00t_manjiri: I did a long time ago, though I didn't succeed at the time14:47
Herwoodw00t_: Is there any page with good hints for using Harmattan UI FW somewhere? I've only browsed through the docs directory found in the source codes.14:47
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haltdef_so guys, is there any possibility of a working extended battery for the n900? :(14:47
w00t_manjiri: if you run into problems.. mention, and i'll see if i know anything helpful :)14:47
w00t_Herwood: not really that I know of, as it's a fairly new creation14:48
lcukhaltdef_, ive seen mention of one in places14:48
manjiriI have been getting the following error: ut_mvirtualkeyboard.o: In function `Ut_MVirtualKeyboard::cleanupTestCase()': ut_mvirtualkeyboard.cpp:(.text+0xc43): undefined reference to `MPlainWindow::instance()'14:48
manjiriand more...14:48
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w00t_Herwood: note that for maximum portability, you probably want to avoid it anyway - and only use it if you specifically need some of the features it provides14:48
achipaDocScrutinizer: I realize, just found it funny in a no $#!+ sherlock manner (the message popped up when I *disconnected* the USB cable)14:48
SpeedEvilhaltdef_: google n900 mugen14:48
w00t_manjiri: at a *guess*: make sure you've got an up-to-date copy of libmeegotouch14:48
haltdef_just out off by the mugen one because of the mattery meter not working14:48
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haltdef_not being able to trust the battery meter, ick :(14:49
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SpeedEvilhaltdef_: It would be possible to improve on the stock battery meter with a widget14:49
modulesaloril: red that n900 has an usb port and somebody is working on software support?14:49
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haltdef_is it a maemo problem rather than mugen then?14:50
DocScrutinizer2achipa: haha. then the detector for negative charging balance was faster than the disconnect detection14:50
alteregoHeh, finally back on my laptop, I've not used it in a week, been relying on the N900 for the past 5-6 days ^.^14:50
Herwoodw00t_: yeah, I just wanted to try it out and see how it works and what it offers14:50
w00t_Herwood: :)14:50
alteregoEven managed to get some pretty good coding done.14:50
DocScrutinizer2modules: yes. correct :-)14:51
ShapeshifterAny German users of Tchibo around? Anyone tried the 1 Euro sim together with the Internet-Flatrate L option? And, does anyone know if I can buy Tchibo SIMs in their shops (or do I have to order online)?14:51
DocScrutinizer2haltdef_: exactly14:51
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moduleswill this software support also allow to add a usb hub + usb webcam?14:52
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DocScrutinizer2modules: basically yes14:52
haltdef_meh, just live with it sounds like my best bet14:52
SpeedEvilhaltdef_: yes14:53
haltdef_stock battery just about makes it but if I decide to browse over 3g for longer than usual it won't :P14:53
meceqlister 0.2-6 is now in testing, fixes an important dependency issue, and enables autorotation. Info: vote:
SpeedEvilhaltdef_: A solution that puts the battery meter on the desktop is almost trivial - a couple of lines of shell14:53
haltdef_that'll show the real percentage remaining when the built in meter lies?14:54
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SpeedEvilhaltdef_: yes.14:54
haltdef_excellent, thank you14:54
DocScrutinizer2roughly, but more reliable than maemo guestimeter14:54
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mJow00t_: MY copy of libmeegotouch is just a coupla days old14:59
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plastunwhere to find info about program localization?15:06
plastunfor maemo, of course15:06
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plastunRST38h, thnks15:08
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passeli|whi, i have this same issue with gdb on N900 ->
passeli|wcannot install gdb15:14
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SpeedEvilCan I with amixer save and restore card state easily?15:15
SpeedEvilIt seems I have to parse the output of 'contents' and feed it in manually15:16
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DocScrutinizer2SpeedEvil: alsactl -f xxx.state store | restore15:18
DocScrutinizer2SpeedEvil: maybe you want to gibe a --card parameter (not checked if alsactl needs or even allows)15:19
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SpeedEvilyeah - worked that out15:20
SpeedEvil'store 015:20
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th3hateHow to move a file from ./MyDocs to home/user/.kmplayer using terminal?15:21
th3hatewhats the command15:21
Sceltoh, sorry15:22
DrIDKHi ! How can I disable selection in QWebView? Because, when I m trying to move into the page, it select in the same time!15:22
SpeedEvilmv ~/MyDocs/file ~/.kmplayer15:22
Sceltmv yes15:22
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th3hateFile name is playlist.xml15:23
th3hateso mv ~/MyDocs/playlist.xml ~/.kmplayer15:23
Sceltth3hate: you can do it!15:23
th3hateneed root?15:23
Sceltmeaning no15:24
Sceltit's your home15:24
DrIDKSecond question : I m using QStackedWidget! But I have no button to go back, when I m showing a second widget15:24
Sceltbut you shouldn't need15:24
DocScrutinizer2"man mv "could also help, alas you need to do that on your desktop linux - unless you installed mandb15:24
Sceltth3hate: if it says permission denied, use root15:24
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DocScrutinizer2if it says permission denied, then better doublecheck what you're doing, as the command above will fail under root anyway and odds are you misspelled anything - the user cmd should work for the case you asked about15:26
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th3hateit worked15:26
DocScrutinizer2th3hate: consider installing package 'mc'15:27
DocScrutinizer2midnight commander15:27
th3hateit's installed15:27
th3hatebut don't know how to use it15:27
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sx0nnokia published profit warning15:29
DocScrutinizer2the only complicated thing is you need to use ESC+<number> instead of F<number> to do the commands in bottom line hotkeys. and you need to know F9 = open menu, F0 (aka F10) = close15:29
DocScrutinizer2down, nokia, down down down15:29
DocScrutinizer2o fsck15:30
DocScrutinizer2sx0n: live stock?15:31
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sx0nor something.. no, just old.15:31
DocScrutinizer2thought it's going down 2% in 10s :-P15:31
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plastunshould I write some addition code after _ = gettext.gettext for working localization for my program well. (use Python)15:32
DocScrutinizer2th3hate: maybe yet another thing good to know: ctrl-i is 'mark this dir/file'. then all F5 aka cp, F6 aka mv/ren, F8 aka delete etc will act on all marked items15:34
th3hatethats in mc?15:34
sx0nDocScrutinizer, about -12.5% in 30 min.15:34
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DocScrutinizer2th3hate: yes, and it's incorrect. the correct key is usually 'insert' to mark/unmark15:35
modulesDocScrutinizer2: do you know where i can get more informations about usb + hub (+webcam), maybe a status or something?15:36
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mecename a pyqt app in extras that's not qlister15:37
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DocScrutinizer2   and
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Stskeepsandre__: +1 for your post15:41
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mece ~seen Noobmonk3y15:42
infobotnoobmonk3y <~c2b06924@gateway/web/freenode/ip.> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 6d 40m 29s ago, saying: 'its an app that needs to be used after you've screwed up your n900 normally'.15:42
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sivangStskeeps: which post?15:58 one15:58
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sivangStskeeps: ah, SMS thingy16:00
sivangrather odd.16:00
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Stskeepsooh. i have liquorice in my backpack16:00
GAN900andre__, thanks for putting that out there. ;)16:00
DocScrutinizer2GAN900: ??16:01
* Stskeeps misses the activistic and constructive maemo.org16:01
Stskeepsat least it seems like the heroes are still around and means best16:01
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andre__GAN900, least I can do before suing them ;-)16:01
andre__GAN900, and from the many issues I have at least one I can talk about in public without problems16:03
GAN900Stskeeps, suddenly holding a dead platform in your hands and collaborating on a dead website does that to you.16:04
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Stskeepsi wouldn't say dead, but so it goes16:05
alteregoCTRL+SHIFT+META+l :)16:05
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meceaaw crap!16:06
GAN900Stskeeps, well, we aint the Zaurus community16:06
GAN900and it's effectively dead to 90% of people.16:06
GAN900Nokia's message to us as a community is an awfully tough one to overcome, too.16:07
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mecehow does one add a screenshot to extras app?16:07
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frals_mece:, find your package, login and then "edit" in the toolbar16:08
MohammadAGmece, open the Downloads page and... nvm16:08
* MohammadAG slaps frals_ 16:08
meceI don't see an edit link16:10
mecealso, guys, could you test/vote for the new verswion, because this dependency issue is seriously annoying.
alteregoI wish some people would vote for my app :P16:11
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mecealterego, so link it. I don't know what it is or what it does or what it's called.16:12
GAN900alterego, which one?16:12
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* SpeedEvil votes for apps for sexual favours. Or chocolate.16:12
MohammadAGmece, it's in the top bar, page > edit16:12
mecefrals_, MohammadAG, thanks16:12
MohammadAGlol only two votes (spam tmo!!!)16:13
alteregoMohammadAG: tried no one is interested obviously :P16:13
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DrIDK? No idea how disable selection action in QWebView ? It make me crazy to select text when I scroll down the page!!16:15
mecealterego, very cool app!16:16
meceok gotta go.16:16
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alterego3 votes! AWESOME :D16:16
MohammadAGsomeone wants a vuvuzela horn app...16:17
MohammadAGthat thing is so f***ing annoying...16:17
* SpeedEvil is one of those boring people that actually employs the QA checklist, rather than simply thumbing.16:17
alteregoI don't even know what that is.16:17
alteregoSpeedEvil: :P16:17
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lcukbetter with bitly actually16:19
DocScrutinizer2WTF?! >>You don't have permission to access /aklapper/wp-comments-post.php on this server.<<16:19
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alteregoIs there a dbus call, or something to move between hildon home views?16:19
DocScrutinizer2andre__: ^^^16:20
MohammadAGlcuk, I'd thank your post if you had one here xD16:20
DocScrutinizer2andre__: they made you lock your blog's comment function?16:20
E0xalterego: hehe is a cool app but is not very "useful"16:21
alteregoE0x: how many apps are useful?16:21
E0xnot much to be honest16:21
E0xwhat is why i quote "useful"16:22
alteregoI think it's neat, as an example of how you can integrate two systems already inplace on the N900 to enhance what we already have.16:22
E0xmy mom think i am neat too16:22
lcukMohammadAG, done16:22
andre__DocScrutinizer, who is "they"? :-P and what is your IP address (might be blocked because of spammers)16:23
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alteregoE0x: and you might not think it's useful, but a lot of people like doing it. Also, it's me playing around with mafw, and I was going to write a geolocation updating map of where you were, and what you were doing, like listening to, etc. :)16:23
DocScrutinizer2they == Nokia, obviously16:23
MohammadAGlcuk, done, and lol'd at qwerty's post xD16:23
E0xalterego: they already something for location at you status16:24
andre__DocScrutinizer: Sorry, but conspiracy theories are already sold out for today. So no Nokia involved. And no, nothing is blocked from here... weird16:25
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alteregoE0x: but that's now what I said is it :P16:25
alteregoE0x: Mine's the opposite, it's a timeline, displayed on a map.16:25
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alteregoNot updating IM status with your location16:25
DocScrutinizer2andre__: well, so let me tell you here I think Nokia really screwed it this time16:26
DocScrutinizer2and I hope it'll hurt16:26
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E0xalterego: oh ok , i got it16:27
achipathat hurts16:27
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ghostcubehuhu, any news for da rollercoaster game16:28
DocScrutinizer2and I bet it will, as that's a safe case for any german lawyer16:28
ghostcubeand who is doing blessn900 and mamsynth16:28
pupnikwhat are those ghostcube16:30
DocScrutinizer2andre__: ""Abmahnwelle""16:30
ghostcubehmmmm yeah our lawyers are stupid bad asses16:30
DocScrutinizer2you bet they are, and they know when it's easy money, like 1000 bucks for a letter16:31
ghostcubepupnik: BlessN900 is an photo app working nice but some things to mention and maemsynth is an synthi for maemo just wanting to say good work and keep it going16:31
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ghostcubeDocScrutinizer i have my own lawyer here a room cross the floor16:31
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ghostcubeand i know there are some bastards of them in germany16:31
pupnikty, wonderful to see some music program16:31
MohammadAG51are HDR pics supposed to be bad looking? :P16:31
pupniknow give us host mode so we can hook up midi-controllers to n90016:32
ghostcubepupnik: maemsynth has a nice beat machine now inside16:32
ghostcubewoah i loaded an HD MKV yesterday into mplayer16:32
ghostcubeBAD IDEA16:32
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E0xghostcube: but with multitouch is not very good play with maemsynth16:34
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DocScrutinizer2andre__: you know how much of the premium SMS fee is for Nokia, per SMS?16:34
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ghostcubeE0x: yeah thats right16:35
ghostcube:) could solve it maybe16:35
andre__DocScrutinizer, no idea16:35
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DocScrutinizer2I doubt this will be a black number under that line in the end for Nokia16:35
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Mecealterego, what was your app called again?16:42
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Mecewait a sec, is pyside in extras?16:44
Venemoif anyone has seen the "Get Started" upp16:45
Venemo(I launched it just now accidentally)16:45
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Venemowhat is the background on the desktop in that stuff?16:45
MohammadAG51Nseries from the N95 8GB iirc16:45
MohammadAG51black shades right?16:45
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Dassugotta tell you guys that Im pretty suprised of opera's potrait usability17:04
* Dassu wonders if it has adblock feature17:04
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PhonicUKhey all17:08
PhonicUKwhich is better, MAME or SDLMAME?17:08
PhonicUKor are they actually the same?17:08
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PhonicUKnm, MAME is the new version17:09
PhonicUKbtw hi everyone ^_^17:09
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_berto_never tried MAME in the n900, does it work at a good speed?17:11
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Dassuwoot opera is pretty cool actually. Not like firefox which is simply a microb clone17:18
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pupnikthose MAMEs could use some work17:19
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jacekowskiDassu: yeah, but i really want notes in it as well17:20
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PhonicUK_berto_, I tried it with Metal Slug - playable but very slow17:25
PhonicUKI guess around 30-50% speed17:25
_berto_I'd like to try older games anyway17:26
_berto_pitfall, ghosts n goblins,17:26
_berto_the former should work ok I guess17:26
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PhonicUKNeeds an option to disable sound really17:27
_berto_I guess you can tweak xmame.cfg17:27
SpeedEvilstop pulseaudio17:27
_berto_even if it's from the command line17:27
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PhonicUKi changed it a little using nano :)17:28
_berto_then there are a few things that you can change to make it faster17:28
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_berto_frame drop17:30
PhonicUKalready got that on17:31
_berto_sound on/off17:31
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_berto_I don't remember, man xmame lists a few17:31
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_berto_but I haven't changed it for years17:31
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_berto_that was necessary with my old 486, but not now with a Core 2 :)17:32
PhonicUKI'm tempted to OC' to 900MHz17:32
PhonicUKbut don't really wanna void the warranty17:32
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pupnikrenaming romsets is always fun17:32
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_berto_does that still happen?17:36
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pupniki wouldn't know17:38
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pupniki think it would be possible to make desktop links to launch mame for specific games, setting controlls for each17:39
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* GAN900 thinks it's time to unsticky the brainstorm threads.18:08
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pupnikhow happy are you with brainstorms leading to actionable decisions?18:09
pupnikwonder if kotczarny is alive18:11
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alteregopupnik: there have been a couple that have been fruitful from what I remember.18:13
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alteregoMostly they don't though?18:13
pupnikwell that's to be expected18:15
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pupnikbut if somethings do come of it, i think the idea is a success18:15
DrIDKhow can I test if I m using maemo or not ?      If ( Maemo) do it...18:15
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sivangpupnik: speaking about some of my threads ? :)18:16
DrIDKor #ifndef ....18:16
pupnikat compile time or run-time DrIDK18:16
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DrIDKcompile tilme18:17
DrIDKpupnik: compile tie18:17
DrIDKpupnik: compile time18:17
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pupniki don't recall how to get it into the makefile/configure but everyone uses #ifdef MAEMO18:21
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DocScrutinizer2PhonicUK: you particularly don't want to get bashed for doing stupid things for the rest of your life18:23
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PhonicUKah, tab completion18:25
DocScrutinizer2eh? OC18:25
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PhonicUKI thought you where talking to pupnik because of the delay xD18:29
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jacekowskiso you're saying that DocScrutinizer2 is slow?18:30
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infobot"OK, listen up.  This is your CPU."  apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan.  "This is your CPU on overclocking.  Any questions?"18:32
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sivangDocScrutinizer2: good never comes out of it that's for sure :)18:33
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alteregoAnyone here know much about gconf and notify callbacks?18:34
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GAN900DocScrutinizer2, lol.18:39
DocScrutinizer2GAN900: ?18:39
GAN900DocScrutinizer2, but maybe if you let them overclock they'll die of radiation exposure.18:39
* GAN900 hears overclocking increases the gamma output.18:39
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Venemowhat gamma output?18:40
Venemothis is nonsense18:40
DocScrutinizer2sure, the field gradients in such a small chip exceed the GV/m range easily :-)18:40
pupnikit's really the alpha radiation you gotta watch out for, when eating n900s18:40
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alteregoAnyone know why this doesn't work?
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GAN900pupnik, thankfully the case blocks most of that.18:42
MohammadAG51Not me, but media-im-status-updater updates video statuses too18:42
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MohammadAG51so I get <unknown> for both fields, and I'm not even listening to anything18:42
alteregoMohammadAG51: Yes, it does :P18:43
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alteregoThat's going to be fixed in the next version.18:43
alteregoAlong with support for internet radio18:43
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GAN900Now everybody can know what I'm consuming at all hours!18:44
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alteregoOh, I need to to 'add_dir' ..18:46
E0xalterego: yes18:47
E0xhehe iwas looking for it now18:47
E0xtoo late18:47
E0xi do exactly the same thing18:47
E0xfor a workspace indicator18:47
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E0xbut not remember the function name of gconf-lib and i was looking for it18:48
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E0xand my code is at home18:49
GAN900alterego, when will it report the name of the website you're browsing? :P18:49
E0x( at work righ now )18:49
alteregoGAN900: that's a different app :P18:49
alteregomicrob-im-status-updater :P18:50
MohammadAG51Now everyone can know when I'm watching....18:50
MohammadAG51the world cup18:50
E0xor www.xvideos.com18:51
E0x( NSFW)18:51
MohammadAG51tsk tsk tsk18:51
MohammadAG51you should say NSFW 6 seconds before you put up a link, not after18:51
E0xMohammadAG51: sorry , my bad18:52
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MohammadAG51lol idc, but someone out of those > 557 might18:52
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jacekowskiMohammadAG51: what you were expecting from that link?18:54
jacekowskiwith X in it18:54
jacekowskix in name adds 90% to probability of it being porn18:55
lcukand when you exclude xmen xgames castlemine xxxx, you are left with 99.999%18:56
MohammadAG51or a x = kiss18:56
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E0xkiss = sex18:57
MohammadAG51jacekowski, I was expecting a repository of...18:57
fralskiss = pee in swedish :<18:57
fralstis true18:57
E0xpee =  pr0n18:57
pupnikofftopic E0x is offtopic18:58
jacekowskipr0n isn't offtopic18:59
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E0xAnsel-A is really cool btw18:59
alteregoMight have a play with it later.19:01
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MohammadAG51why does everyone refer to porn as pr0n, it's not like... everyone doesn't already know what it means19:01
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E0xMohammadAG51: well i start use it back in the irc download pr0n time19:02
vldcnstwork obfuscated19:02
E0xand was the term used , i don't exactly the orgin of it19:02
E0xbut i can't stop of use it in that way19:02
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MohammadAG51vldcnst, I doubt your boss doesn't know what pr0n means19:03
vldcnstMohammadAG51: I don't have a boss, and if I did I doubt he would.19:03
alteregoE0x: so what does your current workspace app do?19:03
alteregoDoes it show a notification with the number of the view or something>19:04
E0xback to the n900 topic , hmm i not sure if is the right way of work but when i go to zone without 3g signal i get 2.5g of course but when i back to the are with 3g signal my phone donde come back ( automatic ) to 3g , some time it did it but 98% not19:04
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MohammadAG51just make a call or something19:04
E0xalterego: that part i don't complete yet but i was looking for show it in the desktop and fade it out19:04
alteregoAh, right.19:05
E0x( the number of the current destkop )19:05
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alteregoWhy not just use a hildon notification? :P19:05
E0xalterego: yes was a option19:05
MeceE0x, I think it goes 3G if there is demand.19:05
E0xMece: yes is what i do19:05
E0xoh wait19:05
E0xyou mean if i go to the browser19:05
E0xand star video some video or something ?19:05
Mecefor example19:06
E0x( righ now i use the apple swicher put it 3g then go back to dual and it stay in 3g )19:06
E0xMece: in that case not , is not work19:06
E0xi need do it manually19:06
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MeceE0x, ok.19:09
E0xalterego: what you will do ?19:09
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alteregoE0x: Oh, I'm not actually doing anything with it, I was helping Venemo with his home view issue.19:11
E0xhome view ?19:11
alteregoE0x: that's the proper name for "workspace" in maemo/hildon-home terms :P19:11
E0xalterego: maybe i will change my app to a pager , something ( like the linux one )19:12
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* E0x if my lazyness let me do it 19:12
alteregoThe idea is, when he detects that a certain home view is being displayed he can create his desktop applets for that display.19:12
alteregoWhich will allow him to dynamically add applets to all home views and restore them after a system restart.19:13
alteregoWithout having to use a home plugin loader.19:13
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Trizttimeless_mbp; Hi, how's it going?19:15
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timeless_mbpi'm distracted19:32
timeless_mbpi have one or two minor things to do for l10n19:32
timeless_mbpbut in front of that is maemo 1.2 mxr19:32
timeless_mbpin front of that is meego mxr19:32
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timeless_mbpand in front of that is bonsai-hg (graph)19:32
timeless_mbpthe graph stuff is nearly done, hopefully by tomorrow19:33
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Trizttimeless_mbp; you should clone yourself19:33
Trizttimeless_mbp; do you work with n900 when doing meego or you got some new secret device?19:34
alteregoEven Nokia are working with the N900 for MeeGo Trizt19:35
MohammadAG51if it's the latter he won't say anything about it...19:35
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timeless_mbpi use amazon cloud when working w/ meego19:35
timeless_mbpit's a secret ec219:35
TriztThen I'll ask a friend of mine and hear what kind of meego device they use ;)19:36
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timeless_mbpi also use a secret macbook pro19:36
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MohammadAG51so secret even your nick doesn't say _mbp19:36
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lcukMohammadAG51, yeah he normally has it after his nick19:38
lcukbut now, theres not19:38
alteregoLooks like since PR1.2 the forecasted development increase from the community is occuring.19:38
lcuk<Trizt> Then I'll ask a friend of mine and hear what kind of meego device they use ;)19:38
lcuk<timeless> i also use a secret macbook pro19:38
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lcukalterego, where was this forecast predicted?19:38
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alteregolcuk: Just general chit-chat on tmo I guess.19:40
alteregoAnd the fact that people seemed to say they were waiting for PR1.2 to be released before they'd develop certain things.19:40
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alteregoEven the whining seems to have calmed down.19:40
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lcukits not wrong :) ive seen lots of chatter about it, the qt on flash changes things for many folks19:40
alteregoThough I'd imagine it's because the whiners have got bored of it by now :)19:41
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Trizttimeless_mbp; I guess those "fixes/checks" for pr1.1.1 has not been done?19:42
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timeless_mbphrm, is 1.1.1 broken?19:43
timeless_mbp(in my locale stuff)19:43
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Trizttimeless_mbp; last time we talked, you were looking for a tester to test the latest fixes you had done19:43
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timeless_mbpoh, i don't think i got a tester19:45
MohammadAG51you did19:45
MohammadAG51and it worked19:45
timeless_mbpoh, ok :)19:45
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SpeedEvilWhat's the beagle channel again - I forgot.19:45
* timeless_mbp has no working memory :)19:45
StskeepsSpeedEvil: beagle19:46
SpeedEvilStskeeps: Damn their complicated nomenclature.19:46
* SpeedEvil wonders if adobe could be convinced to hand out a 'adaption kit' to a community organisation.19:50
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Gadgetoid_iPadI wonder if Adobe could be convinced to die in a car crash19:53
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MohammadAG51I wonder if Apple could be convinced to choke on an.... Apple19:53
Gadgetoid_iPadIf you could choke Apple, it'd cough up money19:54
Gadgetoid_iPadIf you could choke Adobe, they'd steal your wallet19:54
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Gadgetoid_iPadHere, have some software that hasn't been updated significantly in 10 years, and is buggier than a superglue covered abacus: only £500019:55
alteregoGadgetoid_iPad: you base that assumption on any facts?19:56
alteregoGadgetoid_iPad: and leave if all you're going to do is troll please.19:56
MohammadAG51why, he's talking about the iPad :)19:57
alteregoI thought he was knocking adobe and clearly being an Apple ganboi.19:58
alteregofan/gay-boi :P19:58
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alteregoAt least, that's what it sounded like to me.19:59
MohammadAG51nah, he frequents this place19:59
MohammadAG51I'm sure he's not a troll19:59
alteregoFair nuff, my mistake20:00
alteregoI get grouchy when I'm hungry :P20:00
alteregoGot stir fry tonight though, so I'll be happy again in no time :D20:00
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RST38hmoo punks20:02
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pupniktimeless_mbp: i've said before that i think i have about 64KB real working memory20:03
pupnikthe rest is swapped to google and notes20:03
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RST38hpupnik: have you run the pattern test on the remaining 64kB?20:04
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RST38hno bad cells? =)20:05
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pupnikholographic memory ftw20:05
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Gadgetoid_iPadalterego: who, what, when, where?20:08
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RST38hFannie Mae, Freddie Mac to delist shares from NYSE20:09
* RST38h laughs satanically20:09
Gadgetoid_iPadI was definitely knocking Adobe, though!20:09
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Gadgetoid_iPadBut I have too short a gadget attention span to be an Apple fanboi20:10
alteregoGadgetoid_iPad: because Jobs told you to? Or because you have some kind of facts to back up that statement?20:10
Gadgetoid_iPadalterego: I hated Adobe long before the whole silly flash fiasco20:10
Gadgetoid_iPadI hated Adobe BEFORE it was cool20:10
Gadgetoid_iPadGoddamn Apple hipsters have made hating Adobe a bad thing now!20:10
alteregoWell, you have a point.20:11
Gadgetoid_iPadSo I publicly declare my hate for Autodesk!20:11
alteregoThough, I don't hate adobe, but I've always been quite against Flash20:11
alteregoThat is until BBC iPlayer ..20:11
Gadgetoid_iPadBBC iPlayer is flash? weird... works well on my iPad20:11
MohammadAG51move out of the UK, problem solved20:11
Gadgetoid_iPadI always thought iPlayer used gypsy magic20:11
alteregoGadgetoid_iPad: they have iPhone support, which is probably what you're seeing.20:12
MohammadAG51HTML5 prolly (on the iCrap :P)20:12
alteregoSome h264 encoded or something.20:12
MohammadAG51yeah, html520:12
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MohammadAG51why does CPU usage skyhigh when my battery is low20:13
alteregoLast great grasp of life? :P20:13
Gadgetoid_iPadThere may be things fundamentally wrong with Flash, but some good things can be accomplished with it20:14
alteregoI should probably attempt to install scratchbox SDK at some point.20:14
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alteregoAs I'm going to need it very soon :/20:14
MohammadAG51just use devel20:15
* MohammadAG51 stabs trackerd20:15
alteregoHungry, where is this damn food20:16
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timeless_mbppupnik:  heh20:17
Gadgetoid_iPadpssst... the iPad really isn't crap!20:17
Gadgetoid_iPadspecially if you want to shut up a wife for a few hours!20:18
pupnik < Gadgetoid_iPad> Goddamn Apple hipsters have made hating Adobe a bad thing now!  << QOTD :)20:18
alteregoAfter seeing that MeeGo tablet, the iPad looks like a toy :P20:18
Gadgetoid_iPadpupnik:  it's goddamn true, though!20:19
alteregoThe iPad, well, it's just too rubbish to be useful.20:19
alteregoTo me at least.20:19
MohammadAG51a proper laptop can never be replaced20:19
alteregoMohammadAG51: who said anything about replacing a laptop? :P20:19
MohammadAG51Most apple fanboys20:19
alteregoI wouldn't get rid of mine for a tablet, but the tablet would be useful for other things that don't require a laptop.20:20
Gadgetoid_iPadmost a20:20
DocScrutinizerGadgetoid_iPad: I wonder if a frying pan could be used the same way and wouldn't break like the iPad20:20
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Gadgetoid_iPadmost apple fanboys dont do anything productive on their laptops20:20
MohammadAG51I know20:20
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pexiwhat's wrong with iPad? best e-book reader so far20:20
Gadgetoid_iPadthey just dick about in coffee shops and attempt to look hip20:20
alteregoGadgetoid_iPad: except flame on other peoples forums :P20:20
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alteregoAbout how great Apple is ^.^20:20
MohammadAG51Nothing would replace books too20:20
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alteregoAnd post boring youtube videos about Steve Jobs' crappy keynotes.20:21
MohammadAG51I was never against apple20:21
MohammadAG51till the iPhone came out20:21
Gadgetoid_iPadI get real work done on my laptop, and bought the ipad to dick about in coffee shops looking hip20:21
MohammadAG51I liked the iphone20:21
sivangalterego: right :)20:21
pexiipad is great for reading books20:21
MohammadAG51then saw its users online, and went for an N9520:21
pexiand articles20:21
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sivangMohammadAG51: they haven't been doing ti completely right even before that, but the level of lock down reached new hights.20:22
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Gadgetoid_iPadMohammadAG51:  hahahaha20:22
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alteregopexi: I disagree, if you want to read stuff eink is probably a much better technology .20:22
sivangMohammadAG51: what's wrong with their users online?20:22
Gadgetoid_iPadi used to use an iPhone, but moved to the n900 when it got popular20:22
MohammadAG51that was, umm, in 2006 i think20:22
sivangGadgetoid_iPad: popular?20:22
alteregoiPads will cause eye strain, you can't seriously read a lot with one of them ..20:22
pexithe problem with ipad is that it is such a great product that people just want more than it is meant to be :)20:22
MohammadAG51sivang, oh nothing, nothing at all, check other forums and see how they start flame wars20:22
Gadgetoid_iPadsivang:  the iPhone, not the n90020:22
Gadgetoid_iPadthe only place the n900 is popular, is ebay20:23
MohammadAG51check youtube comments (thought most of youtube is flamewars)20:23
sivangGadgetoid_iPad: you moved to iphone when it got popular?20:23
alteregopexi: that's not the problem with the iPad, the problem with the iPad just like the problem with all the iPhone's is, it's shit.20:23
GAN900alterego, I read a lot with my N900. :P20:23
Gadgetoid_iPadalterego:  its a myth that displays cause eye strain! never had a problem myself20:23
alteregoDoesn't have any features.20:23
Dassubtw has anybody else noticed that n900 places "cursor" in the middle of the presses?20:24
sivangalterego: heh20:24
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Gadgetoid_iPadsivang:  i moved to the n900 when the iphone got popular20:24
MohammadAG51I hate how, for example, _some_ iPhone users think youtube was made by apple, cause there's a preinstalled youtube app20:24
alteregoIt's a joke compared to even cheap smartphones on the market.20:24
sivangGadgetoid_iPad: I see20:24
pexialterego, well, for me iPad is the best substitute for a real book20:24
alteregoYet people get it, because it's "pretty", and it comes from Apple ..20:24
sivangMohammadAG51: tell them to browse to it in iphone :)20:24
Gadgetoid_iPadwait, youtube wasn't made by apple? omg this changes everything!20:24
alteregopexi: Well, you obviously don't read much ....20:24
VenemoDassu: yes, so it seems20:24
Dassuthis could be used to simulate multitouch as no one is capable of pushing the screen on two points simoultenously20:24
sivangalterego: I think black makes you look thinner :)20:24
Gadgetoid_iPadi am tempted by the dell streak now, as nobody in their right mind would buy one20:25
alteregosivang: you didn't get the white one? :P20:25
MohammadAG51Gadgetoid_iPad, yeah, now that you know that, I should probably tell you you were never born20:25
Dassusimple vector calculus could provide two points20:25
MohammadAG51you're just static electricity20:25
pexialterego, ..but i still prefer printing over ipad :)20:25
sivangalterego: I'd never touch this microkernel message passing crap!20:25
Gadgetoid_iPadbut the Pandora should eternally satisfy my desire to have a gadget nobody else does (or one nobody else wants)20:25
Dassuhowever building interface solely on that would be a bitch thing to do20:25
DocScrutinizerDassu: age old idea that never worked20:25
GAN900alterego, dunno, hardware's pretty nice.20:25
GAN900Just the software is crippled.20:26
alteregoGadgetoid_iPad: I'm suprised you're not using a Nokia 770 then :P20:26
MohammadAG51Gadgetoid_iPad, who buys stuff cause a lot/few users have it?20:26
alteregoGAN900: hardware looks pretty, still lacks certain things I'd want, like, well, USB ports for one :P20:26
DassuDocScrutinizer: :( why didnt it work?20:26
sivangN900 enables me to not carry around my notebook and still be as online as I could ever be. iPhone does not enable this.20:26
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sivangGadgetoid_iPad: what's pandora?20:26
Gadgetoid_iPadn900 enabled me to constantly accidentally hang up callers20:26
alteregosivang: agreed, the past 6 days I was without my laptop, I did everything on my N900 including some hacking :)20:26
* MohammadAG51 reaches for the red button when he gets a call20:27
MohammadAG51it's soo tempting20:27
alteregosivang: it kind of reaffirmed my love for the tablets, especially those that have a 3G modem :)20:27
MohammadAG51i really like the N90020:27
MohammadAG51expected much less when i bought it20:27
sivangalterego: oh yeah! that is so nice. My local Orange operators are crying everytime I tell them I use the N900 for that :)20:27
MohammadAG51such as problems with switching from 3G to wifi20:27
alteregoMohammadAG51: I've felt the same about all of the tablets I got.20:28
alteregoExcept the 77020:28
sivangalterego: they wanted to sell me a dedicated USB dongle so badlt, with a different data plan! the poor sales representative...20:28
MohammadAG51sivang, lol called orange IL today, the guy said it's an epic device20:28
Gadgetoid_iPadamazing, i am sitting in sunlight and can see the ipad screen!20:28
alteregoI hyped that up about right, but the N800, N810, and N900 have all exceeded my expectations in beauty and use.20:28
sivangMohammadAG51: HAHA20:28
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Gadgetoid_iPadi loved the n810, but was somewhat lacking for connectivity20:28
sivangMohammadAG51: I also managed to get a 60NIS per month 20GB plan20:28
sivangMohammadAG51: tell them a friend of yours got that and you want it as well20:28
sivangMohammadAG51: :-)20:29
Gadgetoid_iPadi want an n810 sized n900 damnit!20:29
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MohammadAG51wait what?20:29
sivangMohammadAG51: so I pay 60nis a month, and get 20GB20:29
alteregoI kind of look at the N810 and it feels like a bit of a toy.20:29
sivangMohammadAG51: yes!20:29
alteregoLooks and feels ..20:29
Gadgetoid_iPadcomplete with side-talkin'20:29
alteregoI still love it though20:29
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sivangMohammadAG51: they screwed me over so much, and I complained, mentioning I have a couple devices, being a forum nokia champion and that I use the connection and ceullar network for distributed work , had them mention inthe stupid Amdocs billing and vantive system my complains, and after 2 months of fighting, I got this plan20:30
sivangMohammadAG51: Once a representative cursed me while I was worrying about a lost sim20:30
alteregoYou're lucky, I'm about to get stitched ..20:31
sivangMohammadAG51: he was so reluctant to give service...20:31
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sivangMohammadAG51: you call them and tell them your friend got that, and you want it also. find some kind of a mishap they did (quite easy)20:31
MohammadAG51Cursed you? Sue!20:31
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sivangMohammadAG51: nahh, don't have the nerves for Israeli court. it sucks bigtime and justice does not prevail.20:31
MohammadAG51meh, I'll go down to 30MBs for the time, going away for a month20:32
sivangMohammadAG51: when you come back, try to get it. if I got it, you can as well20:32
MohammadAG51or they'll raise your bill and I'll stay on the same plan xD20:32
sivangMohammadAG51: if they do, I quit.20:33
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sivangMohammadAG51: I don't have an obligatory plan. I threatened to live them, the time after he cursed me and so they gave me this so I will not leave.20:33
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sivangMohammadAG51: :)20:33
MohammadAG51who uses 20GB :P20:33
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shorterhow do you have vibrate on only for texts and not calls?20:33
MohammadAG51you don't, I guess :P20:33
Gadgetoid_iPadarr ipad chargey time, n900 here i come20:33
sivangMohammadAG51: I just have it online all the time, it is quite nice, and on the stupid train that takes ages to go from Haifa to TLV/South it is a life saver.20:34
shorterouch, I want my old lame phone's functionality20:34
MohammadAG51sivang, I'm on 5GBs, and I only use less than 1GB20:34
sivangMohammadAG51: also allows me to test lots of features and specifically multiple events arriving on phones.20:34
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MohammadAG51sadly it goes from 150 to 5000MBs, which is stupid20:34
sivangMohammadAG51: I use skype alot on that, so now phone bills are very low :-)20:35
sivangMohammadAG51: true20:35
sivangMohammadAG51: the whole pricing scheme in .IL is screwed.20:35
MohammadAG51still, you won't use 20GBs20:35
MohammadAG51- 'pricing scheme'20:35
luke-jrMohammadAG51: why not?20:35
sivangMohammadAG51: I won't true., but sometimes I'm away and I use it for Gigs of downloads for a couple of days20:35
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sivangMohammadAG51: I'm never offline20:35
sivangMohammadAG51: hack, I have youtube be my playlist out of channels on the N90020:36
MohammadAG51That wouldn't take 10MBs20:36
sivangMohammadAG51: while on the road :)20:36
luke-jr5 GB is patheticly little20:36
Gadgetoidlook maw, multitasking!20:36
MohammadAG51and tbh, 3G is slow here20:36
luke-jrI'd use more than 5 GB with dialup20:36
sivangGadgetoid: exacrltY!20:36
sivangyes guys, 3G is very slow20:36
* luke-jr wouldn't know, as there's no 3G here20:37
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Gadgetoidthat said, backgrounder on the ipad is basically the same thing20:37
sivangGadgetoid: I show this to iphoners, that my music on the go is actually youtube and they...well...they say it is pretty20:37
sivangI should blog about this. Such a great experience.20:37
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sivangand I do this while reading emails, online on IRC through SSH, chatting through telepathy and skyping if bandwidth allows.20:38
Gadgetoidplaying youtube videos in the car to the stereo via fm is pretty neat20:38
sivangI think I'm inlove with my N90020:38
sivangGadgetoid: it is, although I don't have a car.20:39
Gadgetoidalthough the fm transmitter doesn't do audio quality many favours20:39
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sivangGadgetoid: pretty is the iphone, I mean, they lack arguments and revert back to "the iphone is so pinky and pretty!"20:39
MohammadAG51I don't have a license :)20:39
Gadgetoidi would like both an iphone and an n90020:40
* DocScrutinizer makes a pink pony stampede run over iPhone20:41
sivanganyway people, gotta go back to my couchdb using python monitoring and session mirroring. back alter.20:41
Gadgetoidiphone with rainbows!20:41
sivangcheers MohammadAG5120:42
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* MohammadAG51 sees DocScrutinizer's stampede using iPhones20:42
Gadgetoidi wish i had a midget to wipe my ass20:42
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sivangGadgetoid: I wish that girl I met last thursday would call me. I missed a TSG working group meeting for that.20:44
sivangor was it community apps? hmmm20:44
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Gadgetoidsivang: call her and leave hundreds of creepy answerphone messages20:45
Gadgetoidgirls totally dig that20:45
SpeedEvilApple is employing honeytraps to distract key developers!20:45
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Gadgetoidi wish i hadn't taken my antiglare screen protector off in favour of a normal one20:46
alteregoWow, sftp really fucks with the device :)20:46
GadgetoidSpeedEvil... i didn't know winnie the pooh was a programmer20:46
alteregoGrinds it to a halt20:47
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SpeedEvilGadgetoid: Yeah - there are lots of pooh programmers out htere.20:47
DocScrutinizer2depends on what you do, I guess20:47
SpeedEvilOr some very similar word.20:47
Gadgetoidi know... when it comes to application programming, I am one of them!20:47
DocScrutinizer2alterego: sftp TO the device from e.g konqueror works like a charm and isn't that slow - no way next to a grinding halt20:48
Gadgetoidalthough I still want to get my heid round objective c and crank out some crappy ipad apps20:48
alteregoDocScrutinizer2: try using something that obviously uses the flash, like conversations whilst you're doing it.20:48
alteregoDocScrutinizer2: were you using usb networking or wifi?20:49
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alteregoAnyhow, bbiab20:49
alteregoOh, I might try wifi then.20:49
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DocScrutinizer2if memory bus bandwidth to the flash is used up with storing sftp data, I well can see how device is coming to a grinding halt for everything else trying to access storage20:50
* RST38h mms20:52
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FIQui-fonts - Fonts for the User Intefrace.20:54
FIQnice spelling20:54
DrGrovAny themes in the repositories?20:54
E0xsh*t happen20:54
MohammadAG51shit happens*20:55
DocScrutinizer2why don't I get a single word of the last 6 lines?20:55
Gadgetoidgentlemen, witnes the birth of a meme20:55
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer2, you're using an old dictionary20:56
* MohammadAG51 offers DocScrutinizer2 an upgrade20:56
DocScrutinizer2peanut butter20:56
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jacekowskii don't get it as well20:58
jacekowskiit's not proper english20:58
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jacekowskiit's not even american english20:58
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ZogGeven texrat thinks that nokia is going mad =)21:03
MohammadAG51ZogG, do you pay21:03
MohammadAG51for streaming?21:03
MohammadAG51damn hildon-desktop21:03
ZogGwhat streaming?21:03
MohammadAG513G streaming on orange21:04
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ZogGi have 3g21:05
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ZogGvideo 3g21:05
ZogGbut it's included21:05
MohammadAG51Try streaming something on
ZogGanyway we don't have 3g video calls with this stupid phone21:06
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flailingmonkey3g video calls don't worry me none. they basically don't exist here in the USA21:07
ZogGflailingmonkey stupid USA21:08
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ZogGMohammadAG51 do not want. f orange21:08
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flailingmonkeytimeless_mbp, ping21:08
jacekowskiwell it's probably less than 5% are using video calls21:10
jacekowskiand less than 20% made one21:10
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ZogGbut if i have 3g and i have front camera21:10
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Venemothey're usually quite expensive in Europe21:10
ZogGand even if i don't use video call21:10
ZogGi want to have this ability21:10
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Venemoat least, in my country21:11
Venemoso noone uses them21:11
flailingmonkeythe iPhone 4 isnmt going to help matters, since they basically pooped on 3G video calls21:11
ZogGall our phone companies switched to 3g calls21:11
flailingmonkeynow americans will think that is what video calls are21:11
ZogGit's the same21:11
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SpeedEvilWill iphone video chat implement I wonder21:12
DocScrutinizer2cryPhone, whyPhone, spyPhone21:12
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ZogGfrals are you Nokia employee now?21:14
SpeedEvilOr even - allied to the above.21:14
fralsZogG: yes21:14
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* MohammadAG51 passes the beer around21:14
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ZogGfrals shame on you =) they bought you. mazal tov21:15
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MohammadAG51congrats frals21:15
RST38hZogG: Texrat has got a history with Nokia21:15
SpeedEvilfrals: Congrats.21:15
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ZogGRST38h like?21:15
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ZogGi mean ion bad or good way?21:15
SpeedEvilfrals: Can you say what you're working on?21:15
ZogGSpeedEvil hypnomeego app =)21:16
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ZogGbuy meego, buy new phone every 2 months21:16
RST38hbehold my mighty psx4all opengles driver!21:16
fralsthanks :)21:16
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SpeedEvil - wallpaper?21:17
MohammadAG51RST38h, riiiight...21:18
ZogGdon't open the link SpeedEvil sent21:18
ZogGyou woulnd;t be able to close the page21:18
E0xSpeedEvil: Wow what for live wallpaper could nice21:18
* MohammadAG51 just hit X...21:18
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MohammadAG51morning VDVsx21:19
RST38hoh shit sorry21:20
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RST38hZogG: short URL:
VDVsxMohammadAG51, hey21:20
* VDVsx moos at RST38h :P21:20
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RST38hVDVsx: moo indeed21:21
DrIDKWhere can I find screen specification size of maemo ? For example, the top horizontal menu, height = ?21:22
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MohammadAG5160 I think21:23
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eitamaGood Evening folks.21:24
eitamaEither i am on mute, or people just don't like to chat on IRC.21:25
_llll_people dont like content-free chat on irc21:26
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Surfasome people21:26
flailingmonkeythey are all mesmerized by the hypnotoad21:26
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eitamaI see, well I need help with Qt on N900, Anyone here fancy giving me a hand?21:27
flailingmonkeyRST38h, so thats what you meant by getting PowerVR working21:27
lovelyboyhi, i want to install libgles2-sgx-img-dev in scratchbox21:27
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flailingmonkeyeitama, you might also want to try #qt-maemo21:27
lovelyboybut when i typed  fakeroot apt-get install libgles2-sgx-img-dev21:27
eitamaI am also there, no one is answering me there as well ):21:27
lovelyboyit failed21:27
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.21:28
lovelyboysomebody knows why>21:29
eitamaI have a QPushButton created at runtime, and added to a QGridLayout21:29
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eitamaIf i put it's size policy to expand on bboth vertical and horizontal21:29
eitamathe button gets chopped21:29
eitamaif i put a button with the designer, it looks good21:30
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eitamaThe code I am using is :21:30
eitamaQPushButton *myButton = new QPushButton();21:30
eitama    myButton->setMaximumSize(100000,100000);21:30
eitama    myButton->sizePolicy().setVerticalPolicy(QSizePolicy::Expanding);21:30
eitama    myButton->sizePolicy().setHorizontalPolicy(QSizePolicy::Expanding);21:30
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eitamaWhat am i doing wrong?21:30
DocScrutinizer2is max size supposed to be that weird number?21:31
eitamathat the max maxNumber21:31
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DocScrutinizer2I'd try with 10000 though21:31
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DocScrutinizer2just a guess21:32
eitamaafaik it's constarained by the QGridLayout21:32
eitamaSo it shouldn't matter21:32
eitamaI am trying as we speak21:32
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eitamaActually the 1st button is added ok, the 2nd one makes everything mess up21:33
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th3hateIs there a way to modifiy the Wifi chip inside N900? like change the signal strength, power-saving, etc?21:35
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eitamaYou have some configuration in the Settings21:36
eitama10mW or 100mW and some levels of power saving.21:36
eitamaper Connection.21:36
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DocScrutinizer2isn't per connection afaik21:36
th3hateWhere can i find wifi settings?21:36
eitamaYou reach it after choosing a connection21:36
eitamaOpen the app menu > Settings > internet connections21:37
eitamaClick connections21:37
eitamaClick a connection21:37
eitamapress next till you get an advanced button21:37
MohammadAG51yeah, it's global for all connections21:37
eitamapress it21:37
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eitamago to the 3rd tab21:37
MohammadAG51a UI enhancement is filed as a bug on bugzilla21:37
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th3hatethanks eitama21:37
DocScrutinizer2eitama: I wonder how far your button is supposed to expand21:38
MohammadAG51infobot, ping21:39
eitamaif it's the only button at a given moment, it's supposed to fill the entire QGridLayout21:39
DocScrutinizer2~pong MohammadAG5121:39
infobotMohammadAG51: PONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!21:39
eitamaI want the buttons to be as big as they can21:39
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flailingmonkeythe 10mw vs 100mw settings should not be changed21:39
SpeedEvilgenerally no21:39
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer2, I switched to 3G then wifi again, and I'm still connected21:39
SpeedEvilIt's not usually a large power draw21:39
MohammadAG51static local and internet IP ftw21:40
DocScrutinizer2eitama: I seem to remember MohammadAG51 ran into some arbitrary max size for buttons21:40
flailingmonkeyand apparently does not improve battery life21:40
MohammadAG51theming problems, not actual button drawing21:40
eitamaThe 1st button I add looks ok, it's only when the 2nd 3rd etc comes21:40
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eitamait suddenly looks like I have double the buttons21:41
eitamaLike the are being chopped in the middle21:41
* MohammadAG51 pings w00t_21:41
MohammadAG51that's a theming problem21:41
DocScrutinizer2eitama: when the first button takes up all the space, then where is the 2nd supposed to live?21:41
eitamaHow do I overcome it?21:41
MohammadAG51the documented 105 doesn't work for me21:41
MohammadAG51make the button smaller21:41
eitamaWhen adding the 2nd button the whole thing is supposed to be resized21:42
eitamaso that now button1 takes all the height21:42
eitamabut half the width21:42
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MohammadAG51use a size 70 button21:42
eitamaand same for the 2nd21:42
eitamasize 70 in height?21:42
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MohammadAG51yes, vertical height :)21:42
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eitamamobile hotspot Start button is huge21:43
* MohammadAG51 too much of a smartass to say width21:43
eitamaHow did he do that?21:43
DocScrutinizer2we've seen similar issues21:43
eitamaHow did he do that?21:43
MohammadAG51check the source :)21:43
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flailingmonkey~lame flailingmonkey21:43
infobotUgh, flailingmonkey's aura of lame is affecting me!21:43
eitamaMaybe it's not Qt21:43
MohammadAG51or he uses a custom image21:43
MohammadAG51hermes has a large button too21:43
* MohammadAG51 checks the code21:44
MohammadAG51(that's gtk though)21:44
eitamaWhats hermes? (:21:44
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DocScrutinizer2I think the image for button is not supposed to scale up21:45
eitamabut 1 button works well (:21:45
eitamathat doesn't add up21:46
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DocScrutinizer2eitama: not really, as first button just resizes to infinite, and you don't see any border. No?21:46
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MohammadAG51      layout = HildonMainScreenLayout(offset = 0.8, container = self)21:49
DocScrutinizer2eitama: and I guess as soon as you add 2nd button, both look weird21:49
MohammadAG51    layout.add_button('Retrieve', _("Get contacts' missing info"))21:49
MohammadAG51cba to fix indentations21:49
MohammadAG51that's what hermes uses21:50
eitama@Doc you are right21:50
eitama@Moh That C++ GTK code?21:50
MohammadAG51<DocScrutinizer2> I think the image for button is not supposed to scale up21:50
DocScrutinizer2eitama: please don't use @, please try what's the benefit of <tab>21:51
MohammadAG51it is supposed to (gtk on ubuntu for example), but doesn't on hildon21:51
DocScrutinizer2MohammadAG51: bug! :-))21:51
DocScrutinizer2though actually makes some sense21:52
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer2, more like fscked up feature21:52
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DocScrutinizer2you wouldn't want a pixeled image21:52
MohammadAG51it should scale properly21:52
MohammadAG51no need to use an image21:52
DocScrutinizer2somebody thought 70 is large enough, when they added the templates21:52
MohammadAG51but i guess users would complain it's not "pretty"21:53
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer2, the documentation says 105 is thumbsized, but it doesn't work21:53
eitama1 button :
* flailingmonkey did not realize there was tab completion of nicks, is such an IRC newb21:53
eitama2 buttons :
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* MohammadAG51 checks hostname21:54
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MohammadAG51OMG, yellowbook?21:54
eitamalol what?21:54
eitamawhats a yellow book?21:54
eitama012 is the shamefully known israeli internet provider (:21:55
MohammadAG51numbers to dial21:55
eitamathose are my contacts21:55
MohammadAG51thought it had all service numbers in IL21:55
MohammadAG51that's not the same problem I had21:55
eitamaI am trying to write an application that will allow dialing to people with max 4 clicks21:55
eitamaThe idea is :21:55
eitamaI scan all the contacts21:56
eitamaand add buttons to where you saw the buttons in the screenshot21:56
DocScrutinizer2MohammadAG51: actually I thought it is21:56
eitamaonly for letters that actually exist at index 0 of a contact21:56
eitamaafter pressing 1 letter21:56
eitamaI do it all over again for index 121:56
DocScrutinizer2that's exactly not sizing but duplicating some background image21:56
eitamaand the list on the right gets filtered21:56
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eitamaIt's odd that it doesn't happen with 1 buttons don't you think?21:57
MohammadAG51eitama, use the default theme and the 1 button app21:57
MohammadAG51yeah, I suspect the theme has it21:57
MohammadAG51for some reason21:57
DocScrutinizer2eitama: for one button you got no border21:57
eitamaHow do i get it to expand and fill the QGridLayout nicely then? ):21:58
DocScrutinizer2use custom image, as mohammad suggested21:58
eitamaMohammadAG: What did you mean 1 button app?21:59
* MohammadAG51 has to say that noobmonk3y suggested that to him21:59
MohammadAG51the app with 1 button :)21:59
eitamaah lol21:59
eitamabut i need more buttons (:21:59
DocScrutinizer2eitama: look at , no rounded corners22:00
MohammadAG51of course you do :P22:00
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DocScrutinizer2eitama: find the .png or whatever that defines the round corner shape (and background? prolly not), and resize that to 800*480. Then use that instead of default for button bitmap or background or whatever it's called22:02
DocScrutinizer2I'd guess that will work lige expected then22:03
MohammadAG51/usr/share/themes is where you should look I guess22:04
lcukoh crap, wrong chan :p22:04
DocScrutinizer2fsckng indexer. One time you'd really need it, it fails epically :-P22:04
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eitama*prowling the files*22:06
lcukeitama, how often will it rebuild the list?22:07
flailingmonkeyDocScrutinizer2: you mean there actually is a usecase for trackerd? :P22:07
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lcukflailingmonkey, try the image browser without thumbnailing :P22:08
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MohammadAG51grr, why can't i answer yes to all for fsck22:08
eitamalcuk everytime the application starts, it will load cached contacts from file, and in the background, check vs phone memory22:08
eitamaas the Qt Mobility api has like 3 seconds lag atm22:09
lcukeitama, how many contacts have you got?22:09
eitamaso i can't do it without caching22:09
eitamaand currently it's limited to English only, cause QtMobility has problems with unicode.. ):22:09
lcuki thought only liqbase had that problem :D22:09
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eitamaNo it's crap!22:11
alteregowhat's the link to the package testing queue?22:11
eitamaI think I have done somthing so stupid in my garage page. I have demoted myslef to senior developer, and now I don't have admin access to my project lol.22:11
lcukyou plonker22:12
MohammadAG51 alterego, click user packages (2nd link afaik)22:12
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flailingmonkeyrofl, thats classic22:12
eitamaFeel such an idiot22:13
alteregoso who wants to test my package? :P22:13
flailingmonkeylcuk, thumnails don't need to have a database of all files22:13
eitamaI can't find how to contact them so they can fix it22:13
Venemoeitama:don't worry, just write an e-mail to the garage admins22:13
MohammadAG51who fancies holding the enter key for 3 hours (maybe less)22:13
eitamaVenemo i spent like 2 hours looking for the e-mail address (:22:13
eitamacan't find it22:13
alteregoI'm on 4/5 at the moment! Need more meat!22:13
alterego4/10 ...22:13
flailingmonkeya thumbnails should only need to be generated when a file is created or changes.22:13
lcukflailingmonkey, only one example, but having the thumbs ahead of time is nice22:14
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eitamathey even say in the initial approve mail : "Enjoy the system, and please tell others about garage. Let us know22:14
eitamaif there is anything we can do to help you."22:14
eitamabut no e-mail22:14
MohammadAG51the only thing I hate about Qt is the documentation22:15
MohammadAG51i'll stick to gtk, and Fremantle22:15
flailingmonkeyneed to put hildon-gtk on meego is all22:15
Venemowhy, Qt is well-documented?22:15
Venemoat least I thought so22:16
lcukeitama, bottom of garage page:  feedback:
eitamaI kinda like the Qt documentation, but it does make you google sometimes22:16
eitamaI pressed the feedback link a few times (: nothing happened22:16
eitamai didn't think about inspecting the link (:22:16
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DocScrutinizer2eitama: ping X-Fade22:16
alteregohow long is the testing queue expiration? and does it get auto bumped back to devel or into Extras?22:16
eitamaWho is he?22:17
MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer2, you already pinged him :P22:17
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MohammadAG51alterego, it doesn't expire22:17
eitamaping X-Fade22:17
DocScrutinizer2X-Fade: garage 'admin'22:17
lcukDocScrutinizer2, X-Fade is indeed person, but he might be busy so its simpler to try find official contact address so he can cope without needing to jump on irc :p22:17
MohammadAG51why the 's lol22:17
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eitamaE-mailed that address. thanks lcuk22:19
eitamaMohammadAG51, why do you have 2 users connected? (:22:20
MohammadAG51cause I'm awesome22:20
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MohammadAG51one's my PC, the other is my RX-51 (N900) :P22:21
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MohammadAG51lcuk, you know sh stuff right? :)22:22
flailingmonkeyMohammadAG51: RX-51 always sounds cool22:22
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MohammadAG51how do I echo a 1000 returns (enter key presses / line breaks)?22:22
flailingmonkeyMohammadAG51: very military :P22:22
lcukMohammadAG51, i dunno#22:22
MohammadAG51Area 5122:23
flailingmonkeyMohammadAG51: in what context? shell?22:23
flailingmonkeyyou could pipe input from a file, with a 1000 newlines in it22:24
eitama\n won't work?22:24
flailingmonkeysomething like: ./program < filename22:24
eitamawith a loop22:24
MohammadAG51idk how to make a loop :)22:24
eitamaYou are talking about bash?22:25
* MohammadAG51 checks DocScrutinizer2's vboost22:25
MohammadAG51bash, ash (busybox), whatever :)22:25
flailingmonkeyN900 has ash, but bash can be installed22:25
SpeedEvilIt's not ash22:25
MohammadAG51already have it22:25
SpeedEvilit's busybox shell22:25
MohammadAG51BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian built-in shell (ash)22:25
eitamafor i in {1..5}22:25
eitama   echo "Welcome $i times"22:25
eitamainstead of that echo thingy22:25
eitamause what flailingmonkey22:26
eitamawith a file that contains a newline22:26
* MohammadAG51 tries that22:26
eitamaand change 5 to 1000 (:22:26
flailingmonkeyyou can also just run echo, should output a new line by default22:26
eitamaor if have tclsh installed22:26
eitamayou could start it22:26
eitamaand type22:26
eitamaputs ""22:27
eitamainside a while22:27
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eitamaafter openeding the file (:22:27
eitamaI am the only one in the world using tclsh22:27
eitamayou won't have it22:27
lcukMohammadAG51, i think \n should work as eitama says but certainly is 100x better than installing lots of random stuff :P22:28
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DocScrutinizer2man yes22:29
lcukecho -e "hello\nworld"22:30
DocScrutinizer2for ( i=0; i<1000; i++); do echo; done22:30
DrGrovWhat is new for today guys?22:30
DrGrovand girls?22:30
DocScrutinizer2aah, and before I forget22:31
vldcnstDrGrov: the pizza place added a new sauce.22:31
DocScrutinizer2I *HATE* BUSYBOX22:31
flailingmonkeyyes, echo -e would work. also use -n so it doesn't add an extra newline22:31
MohammadAG51didn't work22:32
MohammadAG51e2fsck: need terminal for interactive repairs22:32
flailingmonkeythe thing is that you still need to redirect those newlines to the input of your program I presume22:32
MohammadAG51yeah, a pipe does that22:32
flailingmonkeywell, you can either make a file with the newlines, or put that shell script into an executable file and redirect either one22:33
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lcukMohammadAG51, DocScrutinizer2 therefore gave you the thing you need22:34
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MohammadAG51lcuk, I echod the new lines, but fsck is being a smartass22:35
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flailingmonkeydoing: fsck < name_of_file should work22:37
MohammadAG51 echo `cat ./test321` | echo "/sbin/fsck.ext3 /dev/mmcblk1p1" | /bin/sh didn't work...22:38
SpeedEvilwhy not use the flag?22:38
MohammadAG51it's too inconsistent22:38
SpeedEvil      -p     Automatically  repair  ("preen")  the  file  system.   This22:39
SpeedEvil              option  will cause e2fsck to automatically fix any filesys-22:39
SpeedEvil              tem problems that can be safely fixed without human  inter-22:39
SpeedEvil              vention.22:39
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MohammadAG51/dev/mmcblk1p1: UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY; RUN fsck MANUALLY.22:40
SpeedEvile2fsck -y - if you just want to run in 'damn the torpedos' mode22:40
flailingmonkeyMohammadAG51: your attempt doesn't work22:40
flailingmonkeyMohammadAG51: the second echo would ignore the input you piped to it22:40
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MohammadAG51-y worked22:41
flailingmonkeygood :-)22:41
MohammadAG51didn't see that in the man page22:41
MohammadAG51ty SpeedEvil22:41
MohammadAG51why is it even fixing lost+found22:42
MohammadAG51e2fsck: aborted :(22:42
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eitamaWhere should I put the PNG file?22:51
eitamaat the same direcory as the CPP?22:51
* MohammadAG51 dumps them in /usr/share/pixmaps22:51
eitamaso this is good? :22:52
eitamaQPixmap* pixmap = new QPixmap("back.png");22:52
MohammadAG51I guess22:52
* eitama sdf22:52
* eitama was trying to findout how to do those emotes22:52
* eitama is lucky to be a former wow addict, se he got it on the 1st attempt22:53
MohammadAG51lolwut mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 failed: Invalid argument22:53
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eitamapixmaps doesn't work.22:55
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lcukalso avoid using a generic name like "back.png" if you are using a shared folder22:55
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InformatiQwhois X-Fade22:56
eitamait's just development (:22:56
eitamai'll change it later obviously!22:56
eitamathanks for the tip thought!22:56
InformatiQoops missed the /22:56
flailingmonkeyeitama: things like that get forgotten, best not to let yourself have the chance to forget :p22:56
lcukeitama, why have to faff later renaming :P22:56
lcukget it right once and forget about it22:56
MohammadAG51i think i ref*cked my microsd22:57
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MohammadAG51oh and e2fsck segfauled again22:57
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lcukMohammadAG51, sounds like it22:57
flailingmonkeyfsck asked "want me to mess this thing up? N/y" and you auto-yes'd22:57
MohammadAG51oh well, you know what that means22:58
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flailingmonkeyA device with a name like RX-51 should either fly or kill23:00
flailingmonkeypreferably both23:01
eitamaI put a fill path to the PNG, now it's "working" i can see the background correct, but the button text is gone (:23:01
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eitamaand vise versa23:02
MohammadAGgood thing I had backups of the Ubuntu chroot :D23:04
flailingmonkeyMohammadAG51: you're working at Ubuntu on N900?23:04
MohammadAGIt works for me already, but my device is in R&D mode so idk how the watchdog would ***** about it23:05
MohammadAGoh and the touchscreen doesn't work, but I suspect there's a step I missed23:05
flailingmonkeysounds like you need some more N900s23:06
* flailingmonkey does voiceover: N900, so good you want TWO!23:07
MohammadAGLOL no, one's enough for me xD23:08
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MohammadAGthe tar.gz is 867MBs, I might upload it, some day, or year23:08
tuliobaarsis possible to run normal debian apps on turbo easy debian?23:08
tuliobaarsthe easy-deb-chroot23:09
MohammadAGI know what easy debian is, what did you mean by turbo23:10
tuliobaarsand to increase te size of the debian.ext3 image??? is possible?23:10
tuliobaarsis a version of the deb-chroot23:10
DocScrutinizer2[2010-06-16 22:00:58] <flailingmonkey> A device with a name like RX-51 should either fly or kill23:11
* DocScrutinizer2 trows a RX-51 at flailingmonkey ... "see it fly!"23:11
DocScrutinizer2feel the kill on impact23:12
* MohammadAG opens the battery cover and a can of red bull23:12
MohammadAGI hope those ads weren't lying about it23:12
* tuliobaars Burps!23:12
* tuliobaars Fight of my N810 with a stick23:13
MohammadAGlol lcuk someone already made a vuvuzella(?) app23:13
tuliobaarshey! how to increase the debian image?23:13
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lcukyeah MohammadAG23:14
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DocScrutinizer2MohammadAG: you are definitely too mad23:14
* lcuk is busy watching SA lose o_O23:14
MohammadAG0-2 xD23:14
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flailingmonkeyi suggested that trolls be forced to use t.m.o. using:
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer2, yeah, nothing new about that :P23:15
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MohammadAG~factinfo MohammadAG23:15
infobotmohammadag -- created by DocScrutinizer <~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Tue May 25 19:15:21 2010 (22 days); it has been requested 5 times, last by DocScrutinizer2, 8h 55m 15s ago.23:15
infoboti heard mohammadag is special23:15
* Stskeeps yans23:15
* MohammadAG should've included closed crap in his Ubuntu image23:15
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flailingmonkeyabout time for finns to head to bed23:19
MohammadAGit's only 11:1923:19
Stskeepsor people in finnish timezones23:19
MohammadAGwhat's that supposed to mean :P23:19
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DocScrutinizer2so eitama had no hit on mod-o-fied button image?23:19
GAN900Silly Europeans23:20
DocScrutinizer2poor Americans23:21
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eitamaI have found a post on tmo about the texture problem23:21
* MohammadAG kills the other him23:22
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eitamaThe dude says he found a solution to set the style to gtk23:22
eitamado you know how to do that? cause the dude didn't elaborate23:22
SpeedEvilask him23:22
SpeedEvilor her23:22
eitamaHe is not online, I posted on the forum23:22
eitamaI want answers now (:23:23
eitamaIv'e been working on this application from the moment I woke up23:23
eitamaand barely got any progress23:23
eitamaI want to finish it!23:23
eitamaSo much work to be done23:23
eitamaThen i need to find out How to package, and how to upload to extras-devel from windows23:23
Venemoeitama: don't worry, I sympathize with you23:24
Venemoeitama: I'm also in a similar situation23:24
Venemoalthough alterego helped me very much on IRC23:24
VenemoI now have a theoretically working solution23:24
MohammadAGaspidites visits the forums a lot, you'll get an answer soon I guess23:24
Venemoand already implemented about half of it23:24
MohammadAGgoal xD23:25
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t_s_oshit, watching this just makes me pissed about how nokia short changed the N900:
flailingmonkeyit comes down to Maemo Devices team vs. Symbian team23:29
MohammadAGNot really23:29
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MohammadAGthe N900 supports BT mice and keyboards23:29
MohammadAGyou'll have to fix xorg.conf, which should be easy if you read the man page23:29
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flailingmonkeyMohammadAG: in terms of N900 being short changed. not that as a reason that N900 can't do it23:30
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flailingmonkeybut as reason it wasn't supported out of box23:30
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t_s_oyea, but you should not need to, as earlier maemo devices had the keyboard support going already, so the N900 was a step backwards23:30
MohammadAGerr, keyboard support is spot on23:30
t_s_oand then comes the N8 and basically shows off tricks that earlier maemo could have done, and that nokia didnt put into N90023:30
MohammadAGand BT keyboards have worked since the Nokia 668023:31
MohammadAGor 6630 actually23:31
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MohammadAGwow, Symbian^3 has the same crappy UI as Symbian^123:31
flailingmonkeywhat bt keyboard and mouse do you use MohammadAG23:31
MohammadAGNokia SU-8W, and a USB mouse, when USB works :)23:32
MohammadAGSymbian has a mouse arrow now?23:32
MohammadAGtime to try Ubuntu again23:33
GAN900t_s_o, the business division is filled with dinosaurs.23:34
t_s_oi wonder if with open sourcing symbian, some of the higher ups at nokia no longer see a need for maemo. And that may be one reason for its merging with moblin23:34
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GAN900I just wish Maemo had been under any other company than Nokia.23:34
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GAN900The higher-ups are all clearly short-sighted fools.23:35
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MohammadAGt_s_o, I for one won't go back to Symbian, the core OS kinda got old23:35
GAN900It's amazing that Maemo has gotten to where it is despite them.23:35
MohammadAGeven if it had the iPhone UI on it23:35
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t_s_oGAN900: i suspect its the same as with every other company thats been around for a while. The focus becomes short time gains to grow the stock price, rather then long term strategic goals23:36
t_s_oin that sense, going forward with symbian allows the most bang for the least risk23:36
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GAN900Or long-term goals that are 10 years out of date.23:36
GAN900A sick part of me hopes it kills them.23:37
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MohammadAGARGH, touchscreen still not working!23:38
t_s_oi dont think it will, as i see nokia doing smart moves in other markets, like how they are setting up a mobile bank of sorts23:38
* MohammadAG nukes Stskeeps 23:38
flailingmonkeyyou have many teams, and frankly I just don't think maemo has ever been on the radar of the larger company strategy23:38
infobotflailingmonkey meant: Nokia have many teams, and frankly I just don't think maemo has ever been on the radar of the larger company strategy23:39
t_s_oit may have been, when it first got fired up, as a look at how nokia could attempt to leverage open source23:40
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flailingmonkeyMohammadAG: doesn't bt keyboard support require copying layouts from scratchbox or some such23:40
MohammadAGnot really23:40
Venemogood night guys&girls23:40
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MohammadAGwould make it more exciting though23:41
t_s_othen they took what they learned for that and applied to a more known thing, symbian, and put maemo to one side as a hedged bet in case open source symbian implodes23:41
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* MohammadAG can see why qwerty12 left23:41
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DocScrutinizer2isn't Qt open source?23:43
MohammadAGQt itself? yeah23:43
MohammadAGI guess23:43
MohammadAGapps created with it can be commercial -> non open source23:44
DocScrutinizer2so probably the part zooming the button image is as well23:44
MohammadAGafaik that's not a Qt problem, but a hildon one23:44
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DocScrutinizer2QPushButton doesn't sound like a hildon object23:46
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Bashviwhat is better on n900, xchat or irrsi?23:47
DocScrutinizer2so the root problem is QPushButton doesn't do the resizing in a sane manner, and the hildon dependency is the hildon theme has a "too small" image or whatever, that is just 70 high23:47
MohammadAG105, but that doesn't work23:47
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flailingmonkeyirssi is my preference23:48
DocScrutinizer2it actually *has* a FILE for 105?23:48
flailingmonkeybut I had to grab the foxmask theme, as the default theme expects black backgrounds23:49
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flailingmonkeydoes anyone know how to flush the image cache for apps that gets displayed as they load? like Settings and Application Manager23:50
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flailingmonkeythey look rather crappy at the moment, so its obvious when it is still loading23:51
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lcukflailingmonkey, a mo23:52
DocScrutinizer2MohammadAG: HILDON_HEIGHT_THUMB is rather worthless23:53
DocScrutinizer2on itself23:53
DocScrutinizer2we need QPushButton23:53
DocScrutinizer2or QPushButton()23:54
MohammadAGflailingmonkey, clear /home/user/.cache/launch/*23:54
MohammadAGrm /home/user/.cache/launch/* even23:54
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flailingmonkeywhen does it capture those launch previews? hopefully not while displaying the previews :p23:55
MohammadAGdepends on the code I guess23:56
flailingmonkeywhich would cause artifacts over time23:56
lcukthats the one MohammadAG23:56
MohammadAGlcuk, I got it from XD23:56
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DocScrutinizer2probably after all the constructors have done their job23:57
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MohammadAGthe clock app takes it when you close it23:57
MohammadAGhence a slight delay23:57
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flailingmonkeythey really need to be lower compression. clock app is good example23:58
DocScrutinizer2so they should get refreshed each time you do a start&end cycle to the app23:59
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer2, they get refreshed when you change the theme or clear the directory23:59

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