| flailingmonkey | ~poke pupnik_ | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| * infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind pupnik_, pokes pupnik_ repeatedly, hilarity ensues. | 00:00 | |
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| dr34m | which webbrowser for the n900 consumes the less energy as possible ? | 00:02 |
| dr34m | using opera atm | 00:02 |
| haj | opera uses most energy... ;) | 00:02 |
| microlith | power consumption for browsers is largely moot, since more will be eaten by the radio and screen | 00:02 |
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| haj | microlith: I don't agree... try leaving Opera on a page with some animation.... | 00:03 |
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| dr34m | ye i notice it really drains th ebattery quickly.. had to recharge 2 times at work :( | 00:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | It depends. | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | 3G isn't actually too bad if you load a page every minute. | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | And screen can easily not dominate if it's not at max brightness | 00:04 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:05 |
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| dr34m | already put that to lowest setting | 00:05 |
| dr34m | found a battery that has double capacity it seems | 00:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | wifi helps lots. | 00:06 |
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| flailingmonkey | mac brightness is overkill :) but I use it at my desk, when I have it plugged in and want to see from farther away | 00:07 |
| flailingmonkey | s/mac/max/ | 00:08 |
| infobot | flailingmonkey meant: max brightness is overkill :) but I use it at my desk, when I have it plugged in and want to see from farther away | 00:08 |
| dr34m | lol | 00:08 |
| pupnik_ | microb is wonderful for the JAVASCRIPT PAUSING feature! | 00:08 |
| pupnik_ | so happy they implemented it :D | 00:08 |
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| lcuk | pupnik_, its quite nice isnt it, but it has effect of people thinking pages stopped (which they have) if they dont know what its doing | 00:27 |
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| pupnik_ | yes, but this just toooo useful | 00:27 |
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| lcuk | evening simon \o | 00:32 |
| lcuk | lardman even | 00:32 |
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| lardman | hey lcuk | 00:34 |
| lcuk | lardman, this downsampling to get barcodes lark is a bit complex! | 00:34 |
| lardman | really? Using the pipeline? | 00:35 |
| lcuk | no i just followed the original thread of barcode stuff i did way back when | 00:35 |
| lcuk | grabbing valid barcodes from a 320pixel wide stream | 00:36 |
| lcuk | valid codes from ~144 pixels | 00:36 |
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| lardman | ah ok :) | 00:37 |
| lcuk | lardman, i downloaded mbarcode earlier too - you have green flashes on the gst pipeline! | 00:37 |
| lardman | hmm, so I've heard | 00:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | didn't you have that in liq*? :) | 00:38 |
| lardman | I'll have to take another look at that | 00:38 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, yeah baseline detection, i decided to follow train of thought to turn them into valid codes | 00:38 |
| lcuk | lardman, solved green flash in liqbase, but im not sure how you are getting gstream | 00:39 |
| lcuk | ie, i thought you were entirely in rgb | 00:39 |
| lardman | hmm, yes green + purple/pink | 00:39 |
| lcuk | green is UV layers == 0 | 00:39 |
| lardman | we run in YUV as we don't want colour info, just the greyscale stuff | 00:40 |
| lcuk | purple and pink are other corners | 00:40 |
| lcuk | yeah its nice like that | 00:40 |
| lardman | it's afaicr a side effect of the pipeline pausing while the autofocus is performed | 00:40 |
| lcuk | yeah it sounds likely | 00:40 |
| lardman | how did you solve things then? RGB all the way? | 00:40 |
| lcuk | its very juddery to flash and focus and green flash at same time | 00:41 |
| lcuk | no, its related to setting the overlay colorkey | 00:41 |
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| lcuk | just a mo | 00:41 |
| lardman | hmm, any code pointers? | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | (C) Just comment it out | 00:42 |
| * lardman wonders how the changelog will look: removed camera interface to avoid green/pink flashing, side effect of not being able to scan barcodes anymore | 00:43 | |
| lardman | :) | 00:43 |
| lcuk | http://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase/blob/master/src/liqx11info.c#L195 | 00:44 |
| lcuk | lardman, that is the point at start BEFORE i opened any windows - i ask system for the settings | 00:44 |
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| lcuk | and i force my own (black) one in place | 00:44 |
| lcuk | then, to be sure a bit lower down I also set the background color of the window to it | 00:44 |
| lcuk | actually, its very slightly grey - pure black bleeds through lots of things.. | 00:45 |
| lardman | hmm, what about under Qt? | 00:45 |
| lcuk | qt has this sort of code deep within it :p | 00:46 |
| lardman | I always had the feeling it wasn't the background, or does the overlay have a background colour too? | 00:46 |
| lcuk | i dunno which patchway you are using or whether theres already an analog | 00:46 |
| lcuk | but thats how i fixed it for me :) | 00:46 |
| lardman | oh wunderbar, I'll have to do some digging then | 00:46 |
| lcuk | sorry! not an answer on a plate but a lead you can follow | 00:46 |
| lardman | thanks for the pointer and code, will do some digging | 00:46 |
| lardman | yeah I know, just being lazy ;) | 00:47 |
| lardman | me that is! | 00:47 |
| lcuk | arent we all | 00:47 |
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| lardman | :) | 00:47 |
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| lcuk | lardman, i spent 2 nights playing with barcode and trying to work out why I couldnt scan a UPM | 00:47 |
| lcuk | UPC | 00:47 |
| lardman | oh right | 00:47 |
| lcuk | before i realised it was an EAN-13 | 00:47 |
| lardman | that should work | 00:48 |
| lcuk | i have learnt all about clean downsampling | 00:48 |
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| joga | is the led pattern editor safe to use? ;P it has a scary warning | 00:48 |
| lcuk | and have taken some random code and made it actually pull out nice fairly accurate bars | 00:48 |
| lcuk | joga, its scary because its scary | 00:49 |
| lcuk | fluffy bunnies dont have scary warnings | 00:49 |
| lcuk | (unless its the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog | 00:49 |
| joga | shouldn't it be in -devel then | 00:50 |
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| lcuk | why, where is it and what does it matter | 00:50 |
| lcuk | i can buy guns if i want | 00:51 |
| lcuk | and those arent safe | 00:51 |
| joga | yeah, but you know what you're buying :) | 00:51 |
| joga | just wondering if someone uses it | 00:52 |
| lcuk | dunno, where is it tho | 00:52 |
| joga | I wa trying to make the sms and call notifications a different color | 00:52 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg | 00:52 |
| joga | I think it's in testing... | 00:53 |
| lcuk | joga, you said it shouldnt be in -devel | 00:53 |
| lcuk | ahh well | 00:53 |
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| joga | can't remember though | 00:53 |
| joga | anyway, the test worked fine, but when saving, it warns you about possible bricking and urges to manually check everything :) | 00:54 |
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| joga | but anyway, I'll leave that for another day, need to sleep now | 00:54 |
| mc_teo | hey | 00:54 |
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| mc_teo | anyone here use knots2? | 00:55 |
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| vldcnst | mc_teo: yes. | 00:55 |
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| mc_teo | norton 360 gives out about netcat | 00:56 |
| mc_teo | and deletes it before it even installs | 00:57 |
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| mc_teo | so just wondering what is it actually used for | 00:57 |
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| MohammadAG51 | isn't knots a linux app? | 00:58 |
| mc_teo | nope | 00:59 |
| mc_teo | theres a windows installer | 00:59 |
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| mc_teo | just relies on the windows ruby interpreter, etc | 00:59 |
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| mc_teo | on my n900 i tried to skip forward videos (server is vista), and it just freezes the playback | 01:00 |
| tripzero | upnp server? | 01:01 |
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| mc_teo | tripzero: i have upnp disabled on my router, should i enable it? | 01:05 |
| tripzero | no | 01:06 |
| tripzero | my guess is your windows server doesn't support seeking | 01:06 |
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| kW_ | Hello! Does anybody know how to sync contacts and appointsments with KDE desktop? | 01:06 |
| tripzero | but isn't reporting that capability | 01:06 |
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| tripzero | kW_ syncevolution? | 01:06 |
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| tripzero | kW_, also, google cal | 01:07 |
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| kW_ | tripzero: well, google calendar is not an option due to privacy requirements | 01:08 |
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| vldcnst | mc_teo: netcat comes with ruby, google it, it's most likely a false positive. Also, have you tried playing the videos directly with VLC and seeking? it may not be a knots problem. | 01:08 |
| lardman | hmm, right, it looks like my issue is that I need to flush or prime the pipeline | 01:08 |
| lardman | not sure which | 01:08 |
| mc_teo | vldcnst: ive been playing the videos with vlc, many times, and they play fine | 01:08 |
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| vldcnst | mc_teo: does vlc actually crash or? | 01:09 |
| vldcnst | (when using the n900 client) | 01:10 |
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| vldcnst | mc_teo: also, have you enabled debug and developer mode? if not, do so and check the knots log. | 01:12 |
| mece | ~seen achipa | 01:13 |
| infobot | achipa <~chatzilla@Maemo/community/council/achipa> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5h 39m 7s ago, saying: 'flailingmonkey: strategic choice. If we shut it down, they would come after us'. | 01:13 |
| kW_ | tripzero: well, it looks like syncevolution has no complete support for KDE PIM currently...? | 01:15 |
| tripzero | possibly not | 01:16 |
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| lcuk | lardman, i looked back at the barcode stuff, because im still wanting to make devices say "cheese" and take a photo of them all | 01:24 |
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| lardman | Qt Creator question, if I edit a header to specify functions, can I get the Qt Creator to automatically generate the skeletons in the .cpp file? | 01:24 |
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| * lcuk wanted that | 01:25 | |
| lcuk | would increase speed of prototyping classes | 01:25 |
| lcuk | i never found one (thats not to say there isnt one | 01:25 |
| lardman | lcuk: I'm finally getting cracking on the database plugin so I can list my books, dvds, cds, but is hard work, not much free time atm | 01:25 |
| lardman | lcuk: fair enough, not like the "wonders" of M$ then ;) | 01:25 |
| lcuk | yeah i know - databases are however reasonably straight forward to do simply | 01:25 |
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| lcuk | havent they got datasets and bindable grids? | 01:26 |
| lardman | yeah, have to get my head around all this class nonsense though ;) | 01:26 |
| lcuk | indeed | 01:26 |
| lardman | :D | 01:26 |
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| mc_teo | vldcnst: where are the logs kept? | 01:26 |
| lcuk | lardman, a while ago fiferboy had an application | 01:27 |
| lcuk | for his birdwatching | 01:27 |
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| lcuk | its his rosetta stone - hes done it in many languages and systems ;) | 01:27 |
| lardman | I never know whether to use a class or a struct, I guess go classes all the way | 01:27 |
| lardman | lcuk: cool | 01:27 |
| lcuk | anyway, its in qt, uses database and has queries and searhcing | 01:27 |
| lardman | I should do some searching for that then | 01:27 |
| lcuk | a struct is just a class without any explicit members anyway :) | 01:28 |
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| lcuk | theres probably 10 db apps listed in qt creator examples | 01:28 |
| lardman | yeah, but I need to think harder now, decide if I need the classiness | 01:28 |
| * lcuk nods | 01:28 | |
| lardman | yeah I saw, but decided they don't do what I need, so am just going to write some code and evovle I think | 01:28 |
| lcuk | yup, take a look at fiferboys project anyway, he seemed pleased with it | 01:29 |
| lardman | will do, thanks for the heads up | 01:29 |
| lcuk | im off 2 bed :) | 01:29 |
| lcuk | gnite simon \o | 01:29 |
| lardman | night Gary, nice to chat to you :) | 01:29 |
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| kW_ | Which app do I use to download openstreetmap tiles for offline use? | 01:32 |
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| ptl | navit uses them, but it is a pain to set up | 01:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Several will do it. | 01:34 |
| SpeedEvil | I think maep will. | 01:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy bear in mind | 01:34 |
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| mece | there are no quick fixes in extras, I'm guessing.. | 01:38 |
| mece | 10 days per version minimum. | 01:38 |
| mece | or? | 01:39 |
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| Jartza | hello | 01:40 |
| kW_ | SpeedEvil: well, maep does not seem to offer such a menu | 01:40 |
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| vldcnst | mc_teo: have you found the log? | 01:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | kW_: I was thinking of 'mappero' | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | menu->maps->manage maps | 01:54 |
| kW_ | SpeedEvil: you mean, in mappero? | 01:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 02:02 |
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| ManoftheSea | isn't muelli a cereal food? | 02:09 |
| tripzero | mmm cereal | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Muesli | 02:10 |
| * SpeedEvil is addicted to porridge ATM. | 02:10 | |
| ManoftheSea | ah, thanks. | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | 40g of porridge oats, 100g of milk, 4 dates (pitted) in a small bowl, microwaved for 3 mins. | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | And then more milk on top. | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Nom. | 02:11 |
| asj | muesli is just un cooked granola I thought | 02:11 |
| ManoftheSea | Sorry, I use imperial. How many cups is that? | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Also, really cheap | 02:11 |
| mece | ManoftheSea, depends on the size of the cup :P | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | ManoftheSea: About an ounce and a third of oats. | 02:11 |
| ManoftheSea | still not a volume measurement... | 02:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't off-hand know the volume. | 02:12 |
| ManoftheSea | It's alright, I don't hate you because of it. | 02:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I am currently weighing all my food with: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.17483 | 02:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | (it boots faster than my kitchen scale) | 02:13 |
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| pupnik | GAN900: this is reminding me of you lately http://comicsandoimage.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/crumb-9.jpg | 02:14 |
| asj | and it's accurate to .1g! ;) that's a really good price | 02:15 |
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| HtheB | o/ | 02:15 |
| HtheB | anyone has exp with NITdroid? | 02:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | asj: it is actually good for consistent spicing. | 02:15 |
| lardman | nighty-night all | 02:16 |
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| HtheB | SpeedEvil, | 02:16 |
| DrIDK | Hello ! I m trying to packaging a small qt application with madde.. But mad dpkg-buildpackage return me this error : http://pastebin.com/thrigUhv ! Please help me!! | 02:17 |
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| asj | SpeedEvil: but for real accuracy you buy: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.10515 -- heh I wonder how many scales you could buy before they bust down your door and do a drug raid | 02:17 |
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| DrIDK | this is my qmake : http://pastebin.com/AnfjZgQE | 02:18 |
| ManoftheSea | iScale, for the iPad | 02:18 |
| ManoftheSea | he he he. | 02:18 |
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| HtheB | ice kill for the eye pet? | 02:18 |
| HtheB | :p | 02:18 |
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| DrIDK | and this my file tree : http://pastebin.com/zSmUrpAF | 02:19 |
| asj | DrIDK: is the prefix really supposed to be /usr/LOCAL ? | 02:19 |
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| asj | oh, nm it seems to be doing the right thing, I have no clue about madde | 02:19 |
| DrIDK | asj: this tutorial http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging_a_Qt_application said me /usr/local and this one /usr/http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE/Packaging | 02:20 |
| SpeedEvil | HtheB: what? | 02:20 |
| asj | DrIDK: I was refereing to the all caps | 02:20 |
| HtheB | u know NITdroid? | 02:20 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 02:21 |
| HtheB | Android on Maemo | 02:21 |
| HtheB | Android on n810 and N900 | 02:21 |
| HtheB | :p | 02:21 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs at maemo.org | 02:21 | |
| * HtheB browses to www.maemo.org | 02:21 | |
| SpeedEvil | HtheB: I know of the project - I do not know of any progress information, or if it is to be releast on wednesday morning at 9;40AM EST. | 02:22 |
| HtheB | lol | 02:22 |
| HtheB | no | 02:22 |
| HtheB | I just couldnt get it to work | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - it's back up. | 02:22 |
| ManoftheSea | oddly specific | 02:22 |
| HtheB | it doesnt work lol | 02:22 |
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| benno2 | SpeedEvil, wrote about the high audio latency problem and a long rant on the maemo ML. let's see what comes out :) | 02:30 |
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| * SpeedEvil finds out tomorrow that benno2 has been killed by the pulseaudio ninjas. | 02:30 | |
| SpeedEvil | They have the power of moving in utter silence, with the sound of their actions occurring several seconds later. | 02:31 |
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| benno2 | SpeedEvil, read the comments of this interview and you see that desktop users do hate pulseaudio too : http://www.cio.com.au/article/320807/open_source_identity_pulseaudio_creator_lennart_poettering/ | 02:31 |
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| benno2 | SpeedEvil, on the contrary on any articles about JACK audio server such comments were completely absent. | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Firefox has its own breakage. | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147659 | 02:32 |
| povbot | Bug 147659: was not found. | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | benno2: To be fair - that could be as the number of distributions installing jack is tiny. | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Zero? | 02:33 |
| asj | benno2: I don't like Jack, does that count? | 02:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Hg7M8qI5m8 (than pulseaudio) | 02:34 |
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| luke-jr | yawn | 02:36 |
| luke-jr | ALSA works fine for me | 02:36 |
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| benno2 | asj, I am agnostic in that sense, the foundation must be solid. jack has been designed by people that know what they are doing. getting real time audio right is tricky. and ATM I am not aware of soundservers that achieve that kind of numbers. if pulseaudio can be fixed to provide that performance out of the box then it's ok. but I'm sceptical. | 02:36 |
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| opdf2 | how do you copy text from an email? | 02:39 |
| asj | benno2: my problems with jack come from 2 sources, and I'm not sure PA really addresses these anyways. 1. It requires all input/output to have the same time base. This is ludicrous on modern desktop systems, especially those with usb who could have a multitude of different input sources. 2. From a users point of view trying to tie audio sources/ssinks/what ever they called confuses the hell out of me. I could learn it, but I can't imagin my | 02:39 |
| asj | grandma doing so. | 02:39 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, yes the number of distros using jack by default is small. probably they would need to ship it with wrappers like alsa-to-jack, esd-to-jack etc and provide some sensible defaults. then it would work transparently. for example I use skype with the alsa-to-jack alsa driver. so basically skype which supports only alsa outputs to jack and I can configure the audio parameters in the jack server. my laptop's soundcard driver has a problem under linux, you | 02:40 |
| benno2 | need to specify 3 audio fragments otherwise you get crackles. skype with alsa uses 2 fragments and audio calls are unusable. thorugh jackd I get perfect audio quality and can use other apps in parallel. I could even record a call by simply connecting skype jack out port to an audio recorder. | 02:40 |
| asj | (3. jackd crashes on me, and apps can't react gracefully to it. this should be almost seamless when audio isn't being mixed and it's not) | 02:41 |
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| benno2 | asj, yes multiple cards can be a problem, so the solution can be to run one jack instance per card but then the user app would need to chose the other jackd server. everything is doable and perhaps some middleware code is needed, but the foundation is solid | 02:42 |
| benno2 | asj, about jack "crashes" it's a feature to kick out clients that are too slow to react, eg take too much cpu. it can disabled too (which I would do on a phone) | 02:42 |
| benno2 | I don't say that jack is perfect, but IMHO it provides a solid foundation to build on | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Can jack pretend to be pulse? | 02:44 |
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| benno2 | no matter what, Nokia should get their things in order and fix the software layer. then developers should just use Qt Multimedia API and let the underlying layers work out the most efficient communication to the audio hw | 02:45 |
| asj | benno2: that's the wrong answer, jack, or it's input methods should resample the audio to a single time base. Ack! well maybe that's why it "cashes" but the client is Ardour and the only thing the system was doing was multitrack recording/mixing. It could use 100% CPU time, and if it did fine. That's an arugment for robustness, it must be robust, fault tolerant to be used on real systems and it's not. | 02:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | It should only mix to a common timebase if the hardware cannot be configured on the in and out to do a common timebase IMO | 02:46 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, one thing you can do is run pulseaudio which works as a jackd client. so consumer audio apps can use the pulse api while demanding audio apps can use jackd directly. this provides the best of both worlds but not sure if running 2 audio servers is a good idea on a phone, battery consumption, memory, cpu usage | 02:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I keep meaning to do more than I am. | 02:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | I want to find out why the hell pulse uses about the same CPU that mp3 decoding does. | 02:47 |
| asj | SpeedEvil: that's not really the issue, it's multilple sound cards. One has input at say 44105hz (which varies of course) and the other at 44095hz (and it varies too) | 02:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | hmm | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | point | 02:47 |
| shorter | what is the process "trackerd"? | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | shorter: It indexes all your files | 02:47 |
| shorter | taking nearly 100% cpu | 02:47 |
| shorter | oh | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | shorter: It should - ideally - stop in a few mins - unless you've done something odd like put a backup of your laptop into /home | 02:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | It doesn't like that. | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 02:48 |
| HtheB | DocScrutinizer | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | You can edit ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg - or something - to alter its behaveiour | 02:48 |
| shorter | yeah it is down, I would like to have more control over it though | 02:48 |
| benno2 | asj, time base resampling on multple cards can be done but OTOH it increases latency, this would be needed only if you do things like playing an mp3 on both card simultaneously etc. but in normal cases you can use separate time based. I'm not sure if windows xp/ 7does this. | 02:48 |
| shorter | what program owns it? | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | shorter: owns it? | 02:49 |
| shorter | uh | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | shorter: It is started as a daemon in x11.post | 02:49 |
| shorter | okay | 02:49 |
| shorter | can I manage its behavior? | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | you can tell it what not to index. | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Using the phone as normal - it should - generally - be quite painless. | 02:49 |
| shorter | okay | 02:50 |
| asj | benno2: it bites me when I want multiple inputs. A wonderful linux (or any OS) would be say Ardour and 8+ USB mics. Should be trivial to do, but jack can't even do 2 usb mics. Of course I also want monitor input, etc. So the arguemnt is, go buy a mixer. Fine I can mix it all in analog, but...imho that's lame. | 02:50 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, when devs don't do their homework those things do happen (high cpu usage) | 02:50 |
| shorter | I guess it is okay, but I think it would be better if it didn't try to index every time the phone boots | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | IF you have wierd filesystems - you may need to tell it not to index stuff | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | shorter: It shouldn't be | 02:50 |
| shorter | how does it know when to? | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil | benno2: I'm not sure if it's that, or rif it's because of some bogus behaviour. | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil | shorter: It's in the config file. | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Mine is: | 02:51 |
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| benno2 | asj, it would be interesting to know if this works under windows. eg you use cubase to record from 8 usb mixers and everything gets resampled on the fly. cubase uses ASIO and having written ASIO backends (for linuxsampler) , the API do not support using multiple cards at the same time (at least without some major effort), and nowhere is inter-card timebase adjusting mentioned | 02:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/tracker.cfg | 02:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | As you see - I've told it not to index ~/data/ | 02:53 |
| kW_ | SpeedEvil: well, mappero seems to work... however, it seems to crash sometimes... | 02:54 |
| benno2 | asj, I'm sure the devs at the linux-audio-dev mailing list discussed the issue about multiple audio cards, perhaps someone came up with a solution already. but as said, it's not esy to provide both low latency and real time timebase adjusting | 02:54 |
| * GAN900 preordered an iPhone 4G. | 02:55 | |
| SpeedEvil | kW_: DEvs seemed quite responsive when I found a minor bug | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Nooooooooo! | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless you're going to blend it. | 02:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Then it's cool. | 02:55 |
| GAN900 | . . . for my mother. *g* | 02:56 |
| GAN900 | pupnik, bizarre. | 02:56 |
| pupnik | :P | 02:56 |
| pupnik | no offense | 02:56 |
| DrIDK | I have packaging my application using this tutorial : http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging_a_Qt_application ! So All is working... exept I cannot access to my application from the main application view | 02:56 |
| DrIDK | I have to run it from terminal | 02:56 |
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| asj | benno2: I don't know enough about it, and I'll admit many problems look easy until you get into them, but I don't understand how resampling data at 44khz could add that much latency. I've done slip buffers at 1.5mhz and it adds us latencies so this should be trivial....anyways meeting time. | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | asj: there is apaprantly sometimes required filtering. | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | But - still. | 02:57 |
| kW_ | mardi: Hello, are you the developer of Mappero? | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | (neglecting the fact that filtering in line with mp3 decoding is near trivial. | 02:58 |
| shorter | how od you disable the ssh server from running automatically? | 02:59 |
| SpeedEvil | uninstallit | 03:00 |
| shorter | heh, I wana start it sometimes | 03:00 |
| SpeedEvil | you have to install a ssh server for it to run at all | 03:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'm not aware of a nice way to manually start it | 03:00 |
| benno2 | asj, since audio cards do work with audio buffers of sizes ranging 5msec up to several 100msec. you have to introduce a bit of latency in order to track the time base difference and resample on the fly. one soundcard could get warm and then the samplefrequency might drift few Hz. you need to write a resampler which adjusts itself on the fly and still providing low latency and droput free operation. | 03:00 |
| pupnik | DrIDK: got a desktop entry for your app? | 03:01 |
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| DrIDK | pupnik: oh yes! let me look | 03:02 |
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| pupnik | re filtering SpeedEvil - yes it would be preferable to do the eq before the conversion to time-domain | 03:04 |
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| pupnik | but how is that best done? by the app (media player) or by removing mp3->pcm conversion from the app and putting it into the sound server | 03:05 |
| SpeedEvil | It would have to be really in the backend libraries. | 03:06 |
| SpeedEvil | You'd want gst-* and friends to know of how to do equalisation - which will differ for mp3, aac, ... | 03:06 |
| SpeedEvil | And of some way for some middleware to tell them what the equalisation should be. | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | And some way to turn on and off hte sound servers eq, if it can't be done | 03:07 |
| pupnik | makes sense | 03:07 |
| pupnik | restarting x - bbl | 03:07 |
| SpeedEvil | wave | 03:07 |
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| * benno2 shuts down for a few hours and continues his audio fight tomorrow :) cya | 03:10 | |
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| pupnik | free minds, free markets and free software! | 03:21 |
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| luke-jr | pupnik: why filter SpeedEvil? | 03:32 |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 03:32 |
| pupnik | euh? | 03:33 |
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| shorter | is pulseaudio using 30% cpu while on phone normal? | 03:41 |
| SpeedEvil | shorter: yes | 03:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | shorter: It runs all of the voice throught the CPU | 03:42 |
| SpeedEvil | It has to do this for NSA reasons to run the keyword detection, and uplink any hot-words. | 03:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf | 03:43 |
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| pupnik | nice find SpeedEvil | 03:45 |
| * SpeedEvil points at DocWhatever. | 03:46 | |
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| pupnik | i kind of enjoyed talking straight to hw:0 and blocking all other system audio while my app was running | 03:49 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs at not downloading stuff when he finds it. | 03:50 | |
| SpeedEvil | https://datatype.helixcommunity.org/Mp3dec - throwing a database error | 03:50 |
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| shorter | for NSA reasons!? | 03:55 |
| shorter | lol | 03:55 |
| shorter | you're a funny guy | 03:55 |
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| Termana | good morning | 04:04 |
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| shorter | I hope you were joking SpeedEvil | 04:20 |
| flailingmonkey | yes. he was joking | 04:22 |
| flailingmonkey | the NSA performs its keyword detection at the routing nodes, where it has complete control of the line | 04:22 |
| flailingmonkey | easier to deploy updates | 04:22 |
| pupnik | luckily our secret communications are all cleverly encoded as geek chatter on irc | 04:26 |
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| shorter | how do you create a group for sms or voice on the n900? | 04:35 |
| shorter | I don't want all the kids from school cluttering my contacts | 04:36 |
| flailingmonkey | no contact groups in nokia Phone/Contact apps | 04:37 |
| flailingmonkey | Contacts now has a plugin, but I don't know how much that'd help | 04:38 |
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| flailingmonkey | s/plugin/plugin interface/ | 04:39 |
| infobot | flailingmonkey meant: Contacts now has a plugin interface, but I don't know how much that'd help | 04:39 |
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| pupnik | multiplayer platform shooter in ascii graphics... http://artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~brain/0verkill/ | 04:45 |
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| flailingmonkey | g'night everyone | 04:52 |
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| pupnik | nige | 04:53 |
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| shorter | flailingmonkey - which plugin is this you're talking about for contacts and groups? | 05:12 |
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| shorter | how would you inport contacts from the regular contacts program to GPE Contacts? | 05:37 |
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| D|g|ta| | anyone around know if there is a way to search within the application manager for a particular app? Since the update to the latest version of maemo that feature is no longer there. | 06:17 |
| shorter | that's odd | 06:18 |
| D|g|ta| | yea | 06:19 |
| shorter | have you tried selecting different repos or using apt-get from the cmd line? | 06:19 |
| D|g|ta| | and annoying :) | 06:19 |
| D|g|ta| | i have a number of repos selected | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | D|g|ta|: type to search | 06:19 |
| D|g|ta| | excuse me? | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | just enter searchstring via hw kbd | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | starts search, like on desktop with contacts | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | awkward user interface | 06:21 |
| D|g|ta| | sorry from where? i used to be able to select from the dropdown 'search' | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | and seem you can'r select anymore between search in name and search in description | 06:21 |
| D|g|ta| | so i have to use a different app to search the repository? | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | NOOO | 06:23 |
| D|g|ta| | :) | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | opem HAM, click download, click all, start typing searchstring | 06:23 |
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| shorter | I think that's what he's been doing | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | hildon application manager | 06:25 |
| D|g|ta| | ok thats what ive been doing. the search string isnt there.. | 06:25 |
| D|g|ta| | the ability to search.. | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | sorry then, that's what I've been told many times is the way HAM in 1.2 works | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | no 1.2 here, so can't help you | 06:26 |
| D|g|ta| | :| | 06:27 |
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| shorter | Is skype the only VoIP client that can both call land lines AND work on the n900? | 06:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | no | 06:33 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | SIP works like a charm | 06:33 |
| D|g|ta| | DocScrutinizer2 figured it out | 06:33 |
| D|g|ta| | i JFGI | 06:33 |
| D|g|ta| | you select all | 06:34 |
| shorter | you have any advice on what to get for calling landlines DocScrutinizer? | 06:34 |
| D|g|ta| | then just start typing what you are looking for and it will filter | 06:34 |
| shorter | like, obviously it will cost money | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | shorter: get SIP account at any SIP provider | 06:34 |
| shorter | will I be able to roam on any wifi in the world and people can call me from landlines? | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | shorter: www.sipgate.co.uk www.sipgate.de | 06:35 |
| shorter | I'm in the US btw | 06:35 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | freeworldialup | 06:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | ~SIP | 06:36 |
| infobot | hmm... sip is Session Initiation Protocol, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/sip/ (see RFC 3261) It's HIP to be SIP! | 06:36 |
| shorter | I'll take that as a yes | 06:36 |
| D|g|ta| | Im pleased with how well skype works :) | 06:37 |
| shorter | I just wanted to confirm my sketchy knowledge | 06:37 |
| D|g|ta| | the SMS isnt enabled yet | 06:37 |
| shorter | do you use it to call non-skypers (cell and landline #s)? D|g|ta|? | 06:37 |
| D|g|ta| | yea | 06:37 |
| shorter | ah | 06:37 |
| D|g|ta| | works great | 06:37 |
| shorter | how much is it costing? | 06:37 |
| D|g|ta| | um | 06:37 |
| D|g|ta| | 60 bucks for a year | 06:37 |
| shorter | hmm | 06:37 |
| D|g|ta| | er | 06:37 |
| D|g|ta| | there is a subscription service | 06:38 |
| shorter | so I can roam on any wifi network and it will work with my number, right? | 06:38 |
| D|g|ta| | that lets you call from skype which is 2.99 | 06:38 |
| D|g|ta| | a month | 06:38 |
| shorter | and I'm guessing it works on 3g too | 06:38 |
| D|g|ta| | yea | 06:38 |
| shorter | what about calls to? | 06:38 |
| D|g|ta| | i connect to different wifi connections | 06:38 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | shorter: http://www.siptosip.net/ | 06:38 |
| D|g|ta| | calls do require you to pay for the online number | 06:39 |
| D|g|ta| | calls to you i mean | 06:39 |
| shorter | what does that mean? | 06:39 |
| shorter | what is 'the online number'? | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | shorter: ekiga.net | 06:39 |
| D|g|ta| | mean that calling out doesnt require a phone number | 06:39 |
| D|g|ta| | but calling to you you will need a online number | 06:39 |
| shorter | yeah, do you have one? | 06:40 |
| D|g|ta| | i didnt mean to derail the conversation | 06:40 |
| D|g|ta| | yep | 06:40 |
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| D|g|ta| | thats 60 bucks for a year | 06:40 |
| shorter | I wonder how skype compares to all of these other SIP providers | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | oh well, then go waste your money for that skype BS | 06:40 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | it's not my money | 06:40 |
| shorter | lol | 06:40 |
| shorter | I didn't pay yet docS | 06:41 |
| shorter | I'm doing some research, but I have to set it up soon because my prepaid voice is 15c/min | 06:41 |
| D|g|ta| | yea, ill be quiet :) | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | on sipgate or fwd you get "landline" geographical number for *free* so everybody can call you like you had a landline phone | 06:42 |
| D|g|ta| | i wonder how difficult it would be to setup your own sip using amazons EC2.. | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | outbound minutes are usually much cheaper than on skype | 06:42 |
| shorter | and it has the same roaming functionality? | 06:43 |
| shorter | yeah, I didn't want do sell out to skype | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | sure | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | sip is the real thing | 06:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | while skype is a hacker solution based on peer2peer technology | 06:43 |
| shorter | shnapz | 06:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | sip is FOSS, skype is as proprietary and closed as it could ever get | 06:44 |
| shorter | I see SIP has good n900 integration, so yeah, looks like I'll need to do more provider research | 06:44 |
| shorter | yes, I really don't appreciate that | 06:44 |
| shorter | I got to the "enter your full name" on the skype site, and paused and went to do research for alternatives | 06:45 |
| shorter | *ick* | 06:45 |
| shorter | makes me feel like im in trouble or something | 06:45 |
| shorter | haha | 06:45 |
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| shorter | I wonder if you can have multiple sip accounts on the same phone | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | sure | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | see twinklephone.com :-D | 06:48 |
| shorter | lol, DocScrutinizer how many numbers is your n900 attached to? | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | http://twinklephone.com | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | shorter: my N900 atm only to sipgate german geographical number | 06:49 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | I'm not even sure how well N900 supports multi account for SIP | 06:49 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | but it *should* | 06:50 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | I'd guess | 06:50 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | shorter: so the answer is: two | 06:50 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | the GSM and the SIP number | 06:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | btw my N810 is another 'extension' of the same SIP number | 06:51 |
| shorter | that's pretty sick | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | and my laptop with twinkle is the 3rd extension | 06:51 |
| shorter | "let me transfer you to our president" *runs over to laptop* "HELLO?" | 06:52 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | so if anybody calls my german landline number, there's 3 devices that start ringing | 06:52 |
| D|g|ta| | heh | 06:52 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | you can't do that with skype afaik | 06:53 |
| D|g|ta| | my choices for skype were for different reasons | 06:53 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | skype manages better: easy installation, video calls, NAT traversal | 06:54 |
| swc|666 | iax inside ssh socks from chroot ftw | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | and maybe it is better on delivering good quality on really lossy networks | 06:55 |
| D|g|ta| | Hey doc, dont suppose you know where to get replacement sytlus? | 06:55 |
| D|g|ta| | for the n900 | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | sure I know | 06:55 |
| D|g|ta| | official ones that actually fit | 06:55 |
| D|g|ta| | where? | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | http://www.saremi-mobilfunk.de/product_info.php/info/p4363_Original-Nokia-N900-Stylus-Pen.html | 06:56 |
| D|g|ta| | cool | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | I got one for free when N900 came back from Nokia repair ;-P | 06:57 |
| D|g|ta| | :) | 06:57 |
| D|g|ta| | hum | 06:57 |
| D|g|ta| | .de | 06:57 |
| D|g|ta| | in the the oily United states.. | 06:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | sorry, but I haven't searched for outlets in easern Asia | 06:58 |
| shorter | what does NAT traversal have to do with VoIP DocScrutinizer? | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | neither in 3rd world countries like USA | 06:58 |
| shorter | lol | 06:58 |
| D|g|ta| | :) | 06:59 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | shorter: when someone is calling you, a data packet has to be sent from outside (aka the world, internet) to your SIP user agent (aka phone, client). NAT may become an obstacle | 07:00 |
| shorter | do you ever have VoIP problems due to NAT on the various wifi hotspots you visit? | 07:00 |
| D|g|ta| | something like this doc? :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0VhS8qXT0 | 07:01 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | there are good usually working solutions for that in SIP, like STUN, ICE, and host side NAT traversal | 07:01 |
| shorter | yeah, I just want VoIP on the n900 that works on the most wifi hotspots and via 3g | 07:02 |
| shorter | but I'm still looking around for the best SIP provider deals | 07:02 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | shorter: that's actually a hard task, as there's soooo many of them | 07:02 |
| shorter | yep, I thought I would find more comparison articles | 07:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | http://wiki.ip-phone-forum.de/anbieter:start | 07:06 |
| shorter | great, I wonder if US ones are included | 07:07 |
| shorter | do you use GPE contacts list at all? | 07:07 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | for usa sipphone.com is rather popular | 07:07 |
| shorter | I like how it actually has group features | 07:07 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | shorter: scroll down the list ;-) | 07:08 |
| shorter | how would you sync the GPE contacts app with the regular contacts app? | 07:08 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | a very few of USA are actually there | 07:08 |
| shorter | yeah, I'm definitely looking over all of this SIP stuf you give me | 07:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | http://wiki.ip-phone-forum.de/anbieter:sipphone:start | 07:10 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | ouch, bought out by google :-S | 07:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | so seems google supports SIP for google voice | 07:13 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | as sipphone is SIP, and sipphone == gizmo, and gizmo been bought by google and became google voice, aiui | 07:15 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer2: no, GrandCentral was bought and became Voice | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | Gizmo was bought later, and pretty much sat on AFAIK | 07:28 |
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| DigitalPioneer | shorter: http://www.voicestick.com/ looks quite 'standard' | 07:31 |
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| shorter | since you live in germany, DocScrutinizer2, can you recommend the best data plan/provider for roaming through sweden, germany, greece, UK, and France? | 07:35 |
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| shorter | just looking for cheapest/GB (but full geographical coverage) | 07:37 |
| adeus | I'm guessing there's no such thing | 07:37 |
| DigitalPioneer | ouch, that's really hard. Data roaming always costs more than gold, though the EU regulations authority is trying to get tariffs down. They did for voice roaming, but not yet for data roaming. Some poor dudes came back from holiday with a $$$$$ bill waiting for them | 07:38 |
| adeus | I buy prepaids | 07:38 |
| DigitalPioneer | that's the recommended way to cope with this, yes | 07:38 |
| DigitalPioneer | buy PAYG for the country you're at | 07:39 |
| shorter | oh, so no prepaids that work for more than one country? | 07:41 |
| DigitalPioneer | not for data | 07:41 |
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| shorter | so I should just take out the sim before i land so I dont roam, and then go to the nearest place and get a sim | 07:41 |
| DigitalPioneer | at any reasonable rate | 07:41 |
| DigitalPioneer | probably yes | 07:42 |
| shorter | anyone here use vodafone? I heard they could do it for cheap/est.. | 07:43 |
| DigitalPioneer | the big stores will ask for your ID or passport, the smaller usually turkish ones, and supermarkets, don't care | 07:43 |
| hypatia | shorter: tesco in the UK, blau.de in .de, tmobile in .nl is who i used last time | 07:45 |
| hypatia | not sure the others :) | 07:45 |
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| DigitalPioneer | hypatia: has blau a data option? | 07:47 |
| hypatia | DigitalPioneer: 9eur/1gb | 07:48 |
| hypatia | great deal | 07:48 |
| DigitalPioneer | that's ok | 07:48 |
| DigitalPioneer | shorter: blau.de you get in every 2nd supermaket | 07:48 |
| DigitalPioneer | in Germany | 07:48 |
| DigitalPioneer | 20EUR iirc | 07:49 |
| DigitalPioneer | probably incl minutes worth 20EUR | 07:49 |
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| shorter | Thinking about switching my main number from cell -> voip | 08:04 |
| hypatia | shorter: make sure your voip service supports sms :) | 08:05 |
| * hypatia <3's google voice | 08:05 | |
| shorter | you use it with SIP? | 08:06 |
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| shorter | hypatia, I'd be very interested to hear how you use GV | 08:07 |
| shorter | I've heard various SIP providers can allow GV to make calls to landlines, etc - do you use it like this? | 08:08 |
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| hypatia | shorter: i do, using gizmo5. it's also doable with any sip provider that gives you a US number | 08:13 |
| hypatia | i use gizmo to forward to my canadian cell # | 08:13 |
| hypatia | and a callback app on (shh) android | 08:13 |
| hypatia | :) | 08:13 |
| * hypatia just got an n900 today ^_^ | 08:14 | |
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| shorter | yeah, I got mine like 4 days ago | 08:15 |
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| pigeon | hypatia, shorter: congratulations | 08:28 |
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| shorter | got any GV invites? | 08:34 |
| shorter | maybe requesting one on the site is just as quick as from user > user | 08:35 |
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| plastun | hi! how to link Entry and TouchSelector widgets to use entry as text searcher in selector? | 08:44 |
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| hypatia | shorter: i don't, sadly, but you can get one in 24 hours if you have a .edu address | 08:49 |
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| shorter | oh, well time to re-submit my request then - didn't know the edu rule | 08:51 |
| shorter | man I wish there was a way to group contacts | 08:54 |
| shorter | and when I export them in the contact program, and try to import them in GRE Contacts program, each contact is an individual file that has to be selected separately | 08:55 |
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| mece | ~seen X-Fade | 09:08 |
| infobot | x-fade is currently on #maemo (14h 48m 5s) #meego (14h 48m 5s), last said: 'vldcnst: You can always try :)'. | 09:08 |
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| plastun | how to reorder entry and selector widgets in TouchSelectorEntry widget? | 09:16 |
| shorter | sorry, never used that app before | 09:16 |
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| mece | plastun, remove and insert | 09:17 |
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| plastun | mece, thanks | 09:18 |
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| mece | X-Fade, when you got the time, I've got qlister 0.2-6 stuck in the autobuilder | 09:23 |
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| plastun | mece, I have got entry widget from TouchSelectorEntry, but pack_start or pack_end doesn't work | 09:24 |
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| mece | plastun, what language? | 09:24 |
| plastun | Python | 09:24 |
| mece | pygtk | 09:24 |
| plastun | yep | 09:25 |
| mece | ok hold on. | 09:25 |
| mece | plastun, are you using a model? | 09:25 |
| plastun | yes | 09:25 |
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| plastun | mece, this is example: http://pastebin.org/335872 | 09:26 |
| mece | plastun, and you want to rearrange the items, right? | 09:27 |
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| plastun | I want to get Entry widget after selector widget, in bottom of window | 09:27 |
| mece | plastun, wait a sec, let me fire up the sdk here. | 09:30 |
| plastun | mece, no problem. waiting... | 09:30 |
| mece | you want the search box at the bottom? | 09:32 |
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| plastun | mece, yes | 09:34 |
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| mece | plastun, hmm. perhaps you can add the selector entry and column in a vbox separately | 09:39 |
| mece | lemme try.. | 09:39 |
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| Venemo | good morning guys | 09:41 |
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| plastun | morning | 09:42 |
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| mece | plastun, I really don't see any direct way to move that thing.Placement within the widget looks static | 09:50 |
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| plastun | me too | 09:51 |
| plastun | so, my task was implement search in TouchSelector | 09:51 |
| plastun | now I am trying to do this using TouchSelector and Entry widget separately | 09:52 |
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| Venemo | plastun: what is it that you would like to create? | 09:53 |
| plastun | for example, the list of names and ability to search name by typing it in Entry | 09:54 |
| plastun | but using TouchSelectorEntry I have another problem: | 09:54 |
| plastun | to get current text, I should to connect 'changed' event on TouchSelector, when typing text, this event emmits | 09:55 |
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| plastun | yes, I can block handler when focus-in event emitts for Entry, but how to know, when to unblock handler? | 09:56 |
| mece | plastun I think you should use value-changed instead | 09:58 |
| Venemo | well, you can already search for names if you start typing when you're at the desktop | 09:58 |
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| plastun | Venemo, can I use screen keyboard to search like using hardware keyboard? | 10:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | don't think so | 10:02 |
| plastun | mece, this signal unsupported for TouchSelector widget | 10:02 |
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| Herwood | hi, has anyone tried running the widgets gallery app of harmattan ui fw in x86? | 10:04 |
| plastun | and general question, when i press Sym+@ shortcut, it say that layout swithced to another language, but when pressing the keys, old langiage used | 10:04 |
| plastun | why& | 10:04 |
| plastun | ? | 10:05 |
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| mece | plastun, yeah, noticed. | 10:07 |
| Venemo | plastun: isn't it ctrl+space? | 10:08 |
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| mece | plastun, apparently you're supposed to use a picker button for selecting from a TouchSelectorEntry | 10:12 |
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| mece | what should one do when an app getst stuck in the autobuilder? | 10:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | plastun: there's only one kbd layout selection. the switching via sym-space only seems to affect the distionary used, plus maybe the encoding defined for mails etc | 10:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | iirc russion version actually has a keybd layout switching option | 10:41 |
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| plastun | DocScrutinizer, if I set Russian layout ib Settings, than switching to Enf and back works fine | 10:42 |
| plastun | if End set by default, switching to Russian doesn't work | 10:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah that's thoroughly screwed up | 10:43 |
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| mece | anyone here got flattr? | 10:52 |
| shorter | how can you get the date and day next to the clock in maemo? | 10:53 |
| shorter | the main desktop one, that is | 10:53 |
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| mece | shorter, there's a desktop clock? | 10:53 |
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| shorter | I mean the one on the top left | 10:54 |
| mece | shorter, I don't think so. uh I just thought of an idea. could show date instead of operator name! | 10:54 |
| shorter | not sure what you mean | 10:55 |
| shorter | also, why does the app manager have to reload each time an app is installed? | 10:55 |
| shorter | can that be disabled; can the app manager be made faster? | 10:55 |
| mece | shorter, no idea about that. | 10:55 |
| mece | shorter disable testing and devel and it's a lot faster :) | 10:56 |
| shorter | ah, but then it takes longer because almost everytime i go into app manager i want something from devel or testing | 10:56 |
| mece | shorter, anyway, the date thing. No there's not an option to display date there, and I want one. | 10:56 |
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| shorter | indeed | 10:56 |
| shorter | same | 10:56 |
| shorter | no reason it has to be way harder than my old ass phone | 10:56 |
| mece | shorter, so I figured I could make an app that replaces the opreator name (that is to the right of the battery/connection icons) with the date. | 10:57 |
| shorter | have you used touchsearch at all? | 10:57 |
| shorter | it seems useless, but I'm not sure | 10:57 |
| mece | shorter, haven't used. Well it's a very simple app for searching the interwebs. | 10:57 |
| shorter | is it that much harder to just slip some date/day functionality next to the main clock? | 10:57 |
| mece | shorter, no idea really. But I know which operator I use, so I have no need for that text. | 10:58 |
| shorter | yeah, I'd do that for now too I guess | 10:58 |
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| shorter | what do you do about grouping/categorizing your contacts mece? | 11:01 |
| mece | shorter, I do nothing. | 11:01 |
| * MohammadAG51 just found his facebook password in gconf, not impressed | 11:01 | |
| mece | afk | 11:01 |
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| shorter | wtf? how MohammadAG51? | 11:02 |
| jacekowski | facebrick? | 11:02 |
| shorter | i guess it is truecrypt time then, eh? | 11:03 |
| timeless_mbp | MohammadAG51: so? | 11:03 |
| timeless_mbp | your password is known by your device one way or the other | 11:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | any program running on your n900 will have access to your password | 11:04 |
| timeless_mbp | no matter what | 11:04 |
| timeless_mbp | you really don't want facebook running as root just to protect your password | 11:04 |
| timeless_mbp | don't give away your n900 to strangers, and try not to let it get stolen | 11:04 |
| jacekowski | but then you could expect some daemon running as root | 11:04 |
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| jacekowski | password daemon | 11:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | kwallet | 11:05 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, what does kwallet do? | 11:05 |
| jacekowski | yeah, something like that | 11:05 |
| timeless_mbp | why? | 11:05 |
| jacekowski | mece: encrypted password databse | 11:05 |
| timeless_mbp | what's the point | 11:05 |
| mece | jacekowski: I c | 11:06 |
| timeless_mbp | we don't have enough stupid daemons wasting resources on our device? | 11:06 |
| timeless_mbp | you want one more? | 11:06 |
| timeless_mbp | how does that help? | 11:06 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: safe and secure password storage | 11:06 |
| shorter | timeless_mbp, how do you manage daemons on it btw? | 11:06 |
| timeless_mbp | if i'm an evil application, i just knock off the good application and take your password | 11:06 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: no | 11:06 |
| timeless_mbp | shorter: i find a nice patch of sand and stick my head as far down into it as possible | 11:06 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: because password daemon will notice that you are not a good app | 11:06 |
| timeless_mbp | hoping to get a longer neck each time | 11:06 |
| timeless_mbp | jacekowski: how would it do this? | 11:06 |
| shorter | that doesnt help | 11:07 |
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| jacekowski | check path | 11:07 |
| mece | well one thing that would be nice is to have the stuff encrypted and a login required instead the autologin it now uses. I guess that would add a level of security. | 11:07 |
| timeless_mbp | jacekowski: useles | 11:07 |
| jacekowski | for example | 11:07 |
| jacekowski | nope | 11:07 |
| timeless_mbp | if i knock it off, i've knocked it off | 11:07 |
| timeless_mbp | most likely i'm going to poison its memory space | 11:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | besides, i can steal the password once it gets it from the daemon | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | because we're all the same user | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | and you don't want to let facebook lock 100mb of memory pages | 11:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | mece: it would add a level of impracticality | 11:08 |
| timeless_mbp | and people will complain | 11:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | but perhaps that's coming :) | 11:08 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's not a useful requirement for your typical end user | 11:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually there is no way to store secure pw on an insecure device. you either need master password, or you need TPM infra which nobody here really likes | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and if we implement it, you can be assured it will be buggy | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and we won't test it well enough | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | so we'll just get hundreds of bug reports | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | and not actually make anyone happy | 11:09 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: that's for kernel to protect | 11:09 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: that one app don't mess with other one | 11:09 |
| Mece_ | timeless_mbp, I didn't mean for eveyone, only those that care about such. | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | although we'll be even more embarrassed | 11:09 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: and it's quite simple | 11:09 |
| timeless_mbp | jacekowski: i work on security in mozilla | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | and i've seen how security is or isn't done in maemo | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | simple is um… an interesting myth | 11:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | <timeless_mbp> MohammadAG51: so? plain text | 11:10 |
| jacekowski | all you need is to run processes separetly | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | and DocScrutinizer's point is very important to keep in mind | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | jacekowski: bs | 11:10 |
| jacekowski | and well, there isn't a lot of syscalls that can allow to mess with other process memeory | 11:10 |
| timeless_mbp | and again, in fremantle, any app that wants to be is effectively root | 11:11 |
| timeless_mbp | all i need is cat /proc/{pid}/mem or something | 11:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | /apps/maemo/facebook/password | 11:11 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: that can be stopped | 11:11 |
| timeless_mbp | jacekowski: so why bother trying to add smoke and mirrors | 11:11 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: ptrace syscall can be blocked | 11:11 |
| timeless_mbp | oh | 11:11 |
| shorter | tpm infra? | 11:11 |
| timeless_mbp | sure, let's make the device even less developer friendly | 11:11 |
| jacekowski | no | 11:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | hermes does the same for the twitter pass | 11:12 |
| timeless_mbp | that's a winning proposition | 11:12 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: ehh, developer kernel, and user kernel | 11:12 |
| timeless_mbp | eh | 11:12 |
| timeless_mbp | that leads to hell | 11:12 |
| timeless_mbp | and it's also stupid | 11:12 |
| timeless_mbp | because it means that a hacker just carries around a dev kernel | 11:12 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: or even a thingy in /proc/sys to switch modes | 11:12 |
| timeless_mbp | and the user has not gained any actual protection | 11:12 |
| timeless_mbp | you've just wasted an hour now and days discovering you've added no protection | 11:13 |
| timeless_mbp | and then when you realize we need TPM | 11:13 |
| timeless_mbp | you run into DocScrutinizer's point | 11:13 |
| timeless_mbp | which is that everyone *hates* TPM | 11:13 |
| jacekowski | we don't need tpm | 11:13 |
| jacekowski | we just need ability to completly separate applications | 11:13 |
| timeless_mbp | w/o it, nothing prevents the bad guy from loading his own evil kernel | 11:13 |
| timeless_mbp | and if i steal your device, believe me, that's what i'll do | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | bs! you need a crypting bootloader loading signed kernel which only runs signed apps | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | is that your user kernel? | 11:14 |
| timeless_mbp | <panic evil kernel detected> | 11:14 |
| jacekowski | we don't want to protect user against that | 11:14 |
| jacekowski | but against evil app stealing password | 11:14 |
| timeless_mbp | then what the heck are you protecting against? | 11:14 |
| timeless_mbp | that's pointless | 11:14 |
| jacekowski | or some flash/firefox/microb exploit | 11:14 |
| jacekowski | pulling out all passwords | 11:14 |
| timeless_mbp | the evil app can just ask app manager to install a root process | 11:14 |
| nextime | in my opinion, if you steal your device the only one good protection is to have whole system with strong encryption | 11:15 |
| timeless_mbp | and then do its work | 11:15 |
| timeless_mbp | you're just wasting resources tricking people into thinking they have protection | 11:15 |
| timeless_mbp | when they don't | 11:15 |
| nextime | and no, tpm isn't a solution, i can't consider a solution something that for solve an issue introduce more issues | 11:15 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: http://qubes-os.org/ | 11:15 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: that kind of stuff | 11:15 |
| timeless_mbp | at a minimum, we'd need to introduce the windows 7 priv escalation stuff | 11:15 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: maybe not as hardcore as using xen | 11:16 |
| timeless_mbp | which is something that management wasn't interested in | 11:16 |
| nextime | timeless_mbp : selinux with strong MAC configurations | 11:16 |
| timeless_mbp | for diablo/fremantle, they actively broken security protections in the browser to make installation of apps *easier* | 11:16 |
| timeless_mbp | nextime: which attackers interest you? | 11:16 |
| timeless_mbp | what if an attacker decides to write a kernel to the external mmc | 11:17 |
| timeless_mbp | and the n900 is configured to boot from there? | 11:17 |
| nextime | timeless_mbp : the answer is to have whole system strong encryption | 11:17 |
| jacekowski | but it isn't | 11:17 |
| shorter | is anyone working on maemo security? | 11:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | YAWN | 11:17 |
| nextime | so, one can boot the kernel but can't read your fs | 11:17 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: there is so many not user evil options | 11:17 |
| shorter | nextime, you try truecrypt yet? | 11:17 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: for example signed kernel | 11:17 |
| timeless_mbp | nextime: you want an ugly non localized or non updatable sign on system before the real kernel boots? | 11:17 |
| nextime | shorter : no, but i use on ALL my systems luks/dm-crypt on whole system | 11:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | are you asking for signed kernel? | 11:18 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: that if you want to flash not signed kernel you can do it only over cable | 11:18 |
| shorter | yeah, I'd like to try it on the n900 though | 11:18 |
| shorter | I wonder how much it would hinder performance | 11:18 |
| jacekowski | not at all | 11:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm pretty sure people have done it | 11:18 |
| jacekowski | it would take little bit longer to boot | 11:18 |
| timeless_mbp | anyway, i think that tpm is coming | 11:19 |
| shorter | to have the whole fs encrypted (minus /boot of course)? | 11:19 |
| jacekowski | that | 11:19 |
| timeless_mbp | so you guys can all have your wishes | 11:19 |
| jacekowski | that would be a lot slower | 11:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | but i'm going to blame you guys for it! | 11:19 |
| lbt | hmmm stunning lack of interest in having a MeeGo autobuilder that builds Maemo | 11:19 |
| timeless_mbp | it's all your fault. you asked for it! | 11:19 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: hey | 11:19 |
| lbt | o/ timeless_mbp | 11:19 |
| timeless_mbp | i want a mmc card that boots meego | 11:19 |
| timeless_mbp | can you hook me up? | 11:19 |
| lbt | I've never even seen MeeGo running.... | 11:20 |
| nextime | i want meego to die and maemo to go forward :) | 11:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway if tpm is coming, then the FOSS is dead | 11:20 |
| lbt | nextime: tough | 11:20 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: blame jacekowski and MohammadAG51 :) | 11:20 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: if you let it happen, true | 11:20 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: you don't need tpm to do that stuff | 11:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | o.O | 11:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | wtf did I say to start discussion about a damn TPM | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | 99% of it can be done in software | 11:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: bs | 11:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | i said my pass was stored as plain text, sheesh | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | MohammadAG51: you complained about passwords being readable | 11:21 |
| shorter | what about default fs encryption and better physical locking features? | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | as long as you have piece of trusted software stored in rom | 11:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | yes, I didn't discuss platform security | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | MohammadAG51: the platform has no security | 11:21 |
| lbt | tpm isn't bad. Guns aren't bad | 11:21 |
| jacekowski | that's all you need | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | you're asking for obscurity | 11:21 |
| timeless_mbp | obscurity is pointless | 11:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | I'm asking? | 11:22 |
| Appiah | chill.. | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | well, the only reason one would comment about it is to be asking for it | 11:22 |
| nextime | the problem on tpm is that you don't have a trusted software in rom, but nokia have it. | 11:22 |
| jacekowski | nextime: enough for our purposes | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | nextime: what, you don't trust nokia? | 11:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | dudes, please read about moto milestone and their crypted bootloader not loading the FOSS linux kernel you patched | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | for shame! | 11:22 |
| nextime | jacekowski : not acceptable for my personal policies :) | 11:22 |
| timeless_mbp | surely nokia would never hide anything from you | 11:23 |
| shorter | lol | 11:23 |
| nextime | timeless_mbp : i don't trust even my mother | 11:23 |
| shorter | ouch | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | like the hidden radio transceiver in the n800 | 11:23 |
| jacekowski | if they hide anything they could hide it in hardware as well | 11:23 |
| shorter | we don't either nextime | 11:23 |
| shorter | j/k | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | i mean, we hid an entire radio in the n800 | 11:23 |
| nextime | jacekowski: of course you right, but i need a border to my paranoia :) | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | and you're worrying about us hiding a few bits of code in rom | 11:23 |
| timeless_mbp | silly rabbit | 11:24 |
| jacekowski | timeless_mbp: seriously? | 11:24 |
| lbt | heh, you don't trust Nokia as your HW vendor.... but Chinese HW vendors.... they're fine ;) | 11:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | jacekowski: the n800 didn't list a radio as a feature | 11:24 |
| shorter | I don't get it, are you saying it is that easy to hide hardware? | 11:24 |
| nextime | timeless_mbp: my point is that aren't usefull cause we can solve those issues in a more trusted way ( fs encryption ) | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | but it was there | 11:24 |
| shorter | surely they knew there was a radio...right? | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | shorter: it wasn't listed on the box | 11:24 |
| timeless_mbp | so, no, the customer didn't really know | 11:24 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:24 |
| lauri | Hello, could anyone comment why this Python snippet on N900 lags HORRIBLY: http://pastebin.com/3Rz9yVG7 | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | it took a while for others to discover it | 11:25 |
| shorter | well | 11:25 |
| lbt | hi Jaffa | 11:25 |
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| timeless_mbp | shorter: anyway, see lbt's point | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | really, if you don't trust your hardware vendor's software | 11:25 |
| shorter | yeah I know | 11:25 |
| timeless_mbp | why would you trust the hardware vendor's hardware | 11:26 |
| shorter | but it seems n900 is closer to FOSS than anything now | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | it is | 11:26 |
| * lbt disappointed about almost total lack of interest in OBS/Fremantle/Harmattan | 11:26 | |
| *** EqS is now known as EgS | 11:26 | |
| nextime | lauri : i don't know why it lags, but hey, don't use from foo.bar import * | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | and not wasting time w/ security through obscurity is actually a good thing | 11:26 |
| nextime | use from foo import bar | 11:26 |
| shorter | for sure | 11:26 |
| shorter | there must be other options besides TPM, though | 11:26 |
| timeless_mbp | you really don't want us to write out some magical passphrase | 11:26 |
| lbt | still, I guess it's easier to bitch and moan than to do anything concrete about making it better.... | 11:27 |
| * lbt looks around pointedly | 11:27 | |
| timeless_mbp | you have no idea how poorly we've rot13d it | 11:27 |
| lauri | nextime: I am using from foo import bar throughout the actual app | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: i'm interested in it if someone will give me a meego mmc for my n900 | 11:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | lbt: I found that mail great! | 11:27 |
| timeless_mbp | lauri: oprofile? | 11:27 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: thank you | 11:28 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: the future of Maemo.org is inside it IMHO | 11:28 |
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| lbt | if we don't do that then maemo.org will languish | 11:28 |
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| lauri | timeless_mbp: on n900? | 11:29 |
| lbt | Nokia *will* stop funding the autobuilder and other things | 11:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | shorter: (other option) yes, use master password with a pw manager, and keep your system clean | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | lauri: sure? | 11:29 |
| lauri | timeless_mbp: This issue appears only on n900 | 11:29 |
| lauri | not on my laptop :S | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | right, so use it there | 11:29 |
| timeless_mbp | how do you think the browser team does perf work on the n900? | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/chinook/oprofile/ | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/oprofile | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_Eclipse_Tutorial/Eclipse_Performance_Profiling#OProfile_and_IDE_Integration | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | wow, you can even use eclipse w/ it :o | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | stupid device is too developer friendly | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | we should rip that stuff out | 11:30 |
| timeless_mbp | and hide the documentation where no one can find it | 11:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | lbt: for quite a number of devel ML readers there's missing a URL to easily follow and contribute to the discussion on meego ML | 11:31 |
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| lauri | I'll bookmark this | 11:31 |
| lauri | :D | 11:31 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: then please reply with it ;) | 11:31 |
| lbt | and your opinion too ....it's a public call for opinions | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think it's up to one of the OPs otherwise thread started | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | on maemo devel ML | 11:33 |
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| * lbt checks the rulebook.... | 11:33 | |
| lbt | nope. | 11:33 |
| lbt | it's fine. | 11:33 |
| lbt | you can do it | 11:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lbt: "please discuss on meego ML" - it's absolutely reasonable request, but won't help if I start answering to the maemodevel ML mail | 11:39 |
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| lbt | there you go | 11:42 |
| achipa | lbt: regarding OBS - FWIW you have Council support for that (Andrew signed it, but it DOES cover all people in there). From a community perspective, I'm not sure what more we can do (if you know, do tell :) | 11:42 |
| lbt | achipa: well, we're asking for the MeeGo community to approve this | 11:43 |
| lbt | are you part of the MeeGo community? | 11:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | lbt: I suggest you answer to your own mail on maemodevel ML *only*, stating once more "please don't answer here. Rather you can follow the meego ML thread in archives here ((URL)), and you subscribe to that ML there:((URL))" | 11:43 |
| lbt | ie do you plan to run/develop for MeeGo? | 11:43 |
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| achipa | lbt: well, if nothing else, it will be a good test of how much Maemo ancestry/respect means in MeeGo land these days | 11:44 |
| lbt | If so then your opinion matters... even "yes, as a maemo dev coming to meego this is really important" | 11:44 |
| lbt | achipa: you don't get it :) | 11:44 |
| lbt | *YOU* are MeeGo | 11:44 |
| * nextime doesn't want meego | 11:44 | |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: done | 11:44 |
| lbt | nextime: *YOU* don't matter ;) | 11:45 |
| nextime | lbt : sadly, i know | 11:45 |
| lbt | awww | 11:45 |
| * MohammadAG51 doesn't wants MeeGo too | 11:45 | |
| achipa | lbt: Uh. I'm in a sensitive position here. I *AM* going to increase involvement with MeeGo, but still not sure about the modality | 11:45 |
| nextime | a see meego like a borg | 11:45 |
| lbt | nextime: actually, as has been said before, MeeGo killed Mer because it is Mer | 11:45 |
| nextime | "resistence is futile, you will be assimilated" | 11:45 |
| nextime | but i hate it | 11:45 |
| lbt | achipa: not sure I understand? | 11:46 |
| nextime | lbt : false, meego isn't mer | 11:46 |
| MohammadAG51 | I hate RPM, not meego :P | 11:46 |
| nextime | MohammadAG51 : me too. | 11:46 |
| lbt | nextime: in many ways it is | 11:46 |
| lbt | re rpms.... me too | 11:46 |
| nextime | lbt : not in the way i like more on mer/maemo: the debian derived base | 11:46 |
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| lbt | you should see the source code for the MeeGo release management reporting tools... ;) | 11:47 |
| lbt | nextime: that's fine... I run debian on my desktop and won't change that | 11:47 |
| nextime | lbt : i use debian too on all my machine from when debian exists... | 11:47 |
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| lbt | MeeGo pushes upstream and so will help Debian too | 11:47 |
| lbt | nextime: sure, fine. | 11:47 |
| achipa | lbt: I'm pretty certain that my current position is not transferable. Will I code for fun and be on the lists ? Certainly. | 11:48 |
| lbt | OK | 11:48 |
| lbt | you matter then | 11:48 |
| nextime | lbt : right, but it lose the debian like userland feeling | 11:48 |
| lbt | nextime: yep | 11:48 |
| nextime | that is what i love and what make me buy an n900 | 11:48 |
| lbt | nextime: although I'm working on bringing the Debian policies to MeeGo | 11:48 |
| lbt | if you don't care enough about those policies... that's fine too | 11:49 |
| nextime | lbt : work also to change the package management :) | 11:49 |
| lbt | I don't see that as important | 11:49 |
| lbt | I see improving it as important | 11:49 |
| lbt | and making it as robust as Debian | 11:49 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | I really can't see what's wrong with RPM | 11:49 |
| nextime | lbt : i see that as so important that i think in fuure i will sel-rebuild all packages from meego in .deb to use it on my device... | 11:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer2, it's really slow on the N900 tbh | 11:50 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer2: It's not DEB | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | yum is just fine for users | 11:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | yum is slow | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | uhuh | 11:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | it tooks 5 minutes to install xchat on the N900 | 11:50 |
| nextime | docscrunizer: nothing is wrong with rpm. It is just my personal feeling with maemo, i've buyed my n900 PRIMARLY cause of apt | 11:50 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | and apt is lightning fast, heh? | 11:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | with a fedora chroot | 11:50 |
| nextime | so, losing apt is a really BAD thing for me | 11:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | it's faster | 11:50 |
| nextime | only this | 11:50 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer2: http://www.google.com/search?q=python+rpmutils+documentation vs http://www.google.com/search?q=python+apt+documentation | 11:50 |
| lbt | that is what is wrong with RPM | 11:51 |
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| achipa | MohammadAG51: well... the app manager is not a speed champion, deb or rpm | 11:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | achipa, I was using apt-get and yum when I compared | 11:51 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | lbt: granted. this may be fixed though | 11:51 |
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| nextime | DocScrutinizer2: also, i have my own deb repositories, i don't want to have to put online ALSO a rpm repo | 11:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | an app manager would just make it slower | 11:51 |
| lbt | rpm is underdocumented, poorly policied and badly adhered to | 11:51 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer2: and so it can... which is why I don't care that we use it | 11:52 |
| achipa | MohammadAG51: still, those are not the primary ways of installing stuff | 11:52 |
| lbt | and why I'm working on policy transfer | 11:52 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | nextime: that's a really poor argument | 11:52 |
| achipa | MohammadAG51: plus, there should be some difference between yum and zypper | 11:52 |
| achipa | but... we're getting #meego now :) | 11:52 |
| nextime | DocScrutinizer2: generally speaking yes, but for ME it isn't poor argument | 11:52 |
| achipa | lbt: that goes for Python in general. Having to write an open letter of support to have Python officially in Harmattan and MeeGo gives me shivers | 11:53 |
| lbt | it could be python | 11:54 |
| Mece_ | x-fade, ping | 11:54 |
| MohammadAG51 | achipa, well, couldn't find zypper on fedora so... :) | 11:54 |
| lbt | but all the rpm tools are written in python so that's no excuse | 11:54 |
| * lbt goes to do some real work :) l8r..... and please engage on the meego-community ml :) | 11:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer2 | lbt: o/ | 11:54 |
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| achipa | lbt: ok, will do a 'lbt for president !' post | 11:56 |
| nextime | lbt : as a pythonist myself, the python base of the rpm tools is the only positive point i ca see :) anyway, i also have to to some more productive work. Bye all. | 11:56 |
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| lbt | nextime: the lack of docs is my complaint | 11:57 |
| lcuk | achipa, there are worse places david could be stuck in :p | 12:00 |
| achipa | lcuk: like the Community Council ? :P | 12:01 |
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| lcuk | lol :p | 12:04 |
| Mece_ | so what should I do with my stuck package? would a bugreport help? | 12:05 |
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| lcuk | Mece_, its stuck? | 12:06 |
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| Mece_ | lcuk, well i never got "package imported" | 12:07 |
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| lcuk | Mece_, yesterday there were some issues on maemo.org - perhaps related and not all services back online | 12:08 |
| lcuk | Mece_, wheres the packages page you are looking at | 12:08 |
| Mece_ | lcuk, well actually, it is n the repos, but the instance is not properly updated on the site. | 12:09 |
| sivang | achipa: but if rpm is used in meego, and is heavily based on Python, wouldn't it go without saying that Python needs official support on the platform? | 12:09 |
| lcuk | Mece_, url | 12:09 |
| sivang | achipa: or maybe I'm missing something. | 12:09 |
| Mece_ | lcuk, http://maemo.org/packages/view/qlister/ | 12:09 |
| Mece_ | 0.2-6 | 12:09 |
| achipa | sivang: talking about application level (community and Ovi) | 12:10 |
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| lcuk | ok Mece_ so it was last night, you say its in the repo? its just the packages ui isnt showing it? | 12:11 |
| sivang | achipa: why is application level python not supported? If it is there for the rpm toolchain, then it is there for the rest of the userland no? | 12:11 |
| achipa | sivang: on Fremantle the issue is also not that it doesn't exist, but that it's not official (which has sideeffects like that ovi won't accept you) | 12:11 |
| achipa | sivang: hey, I'm no Ovi guy, ask them | 12:11 |
| Mece_ | lcuk, yep. I got update notification in ham. | 12:11 |
| sivang | achipa: yes, I know about Ovi. | 12:11 |
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| sivang | achipa: I think OVI will change for MeeGo if it is going to be used as an app source, e.g. accept python as well | 12:12 |
| achipa | sivang: also, note that just having python itself is not the question here. If all the python-* packages don't have a proper treatment, then it's not worth much | 12:12 |
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| sivang | achipa: true, so we need official maintainership | 12:12 |
| achipa | sivang: I think Ovi has no contact with either community or commercial developers (talking mainly about python here) | 12:13 |
| lcuk | Mece_, its likely related to yesterday and doesnt sound too heavy (obviously not ideal) when X-Fade appears later if hes on just see if it was expected after the outages | 12:13 |
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| sivang | ah, so I see maemo's bugzilla does allow for community application to use its services? https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?product=qlister | 12:13 |
| achipa | sivang: so I'm afraid it will be 'why didn't you say so' AFTER MeeGo ships | 12:13 |
| sivang | as an example | 12:13 |
| achipa | hence the open letter | 12:13 |
| sivang | achipa: the open letter was a good idea. I'm sure people will treat it seriously. | 12:14 |
| Mece_ | lcuk, ok. It's only a problem because I want to promote to testing. | 12:14 |
| lcuk | sure | 12:14 |
| Mece_ | sivang, yep. just email andre if you want it there. | 12:14 |
| lcuk | Mece_, checked bugs.maemo.org for similar things ? | 12:14 |
| lcuk | to see how it was handled in the past perhaps | 12:15 |
| Mece_ | lcuk, haven't done that. I'll check later. | 12:15 |
| achipa | X-Fade: I know you probably have more important things to do, but when in an agressive mood, nuke http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/soccerfrenzy/1.0.2/ | 12:15 |
| achipa | (same story as hoopsfrenzy) | 12:16 |
| lcuk | achipa, wow i would never be able to track irc things like that :P | 12:16 |
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| sivang | Mece_: Why was it mentioned some time ago in one of the meego meetings that community applications are not given resources for issues and related? | 12:21 |
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| andre__ | sivang, what do you need? :) | 12:24 |
| * andre__ too lazy to read the backlog | 12:24 | |
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| sivang | andre__: Not much at this point :-) But some support once I upload a specific demo app to the repo, I was alos curious to know what are the current issues with the process that brought it to that meeting. I need to review the logs again. | 12:26 |
| andre__ | if you need a product in bugs.maemo.org see http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products . for everything else I have no idea :) | 12:26 |
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| sivang | achipa: There's nothing in the open letter to mention Python support..missing something again? :) | 12:27 |
| sivang | achipa: (I mean, I am ) | 12:27 |
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| achipa | sivang: it's not out yet, will be probably later today (syncing with other council members, etc) | 12:28 |
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| sivang | achipa: ah, youre open letter to support python? if you want to get more rationale (some stuff I learnt from the field dealing with development customers) let me know. | 12:29 |
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| achipa | sivang: thanks, though I think it might be better if rationales or support of our... support :) might be better on-line (just so that the announcement doesn't go by as a tumbleweed) | 12:31 |
| achipa | (on-line = on lists, talk, etc) | 12:31 |
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| achipa | = I would like to avoid a 10 page document nobody will read, when the essence is fairly short and non-technical | 12:32 |
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| sivang | achipa: cool, so once sent to the ML, I will respond and add my 2c of field experience with developing customers there. | 12:33 |
| achipa | (but of course provide all the additional info and rationale in whatever form possible) | 12:33 |
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| sivang | achipa: interest in prototyping , and production POCs (as in python being used to build an app to hit the market quick, and then converted to compiled language once critical mass is reached etc) | 12:34 |
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| sivang | andre__: sure thing, thanks! :) | 12:37 |
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| sivang | andre__: you know, what's even more interesting, is how Python is given as an example for a device to widen the developer community in the Qt for Symbian book , where there it explains it is readily available on the S60 and Linux based platforms from Nokia | 12:44 |
| sivang | andre__: the book starts with emphasisng how important it is to widen the developer community and gives examples for the ways you can tackel this:QT C++, WRT, PyS60, PyMaemo and PySide. | 12:45 |
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| sivang | andre__: ahh op | 12:45 |
| sivang | andre__: oops :) | 12:46 |
| sivang | achipa: ^^^ | 12:46 |
| andre__ | :) | 12:46 |
| achipa | sivang: Yes, that is one of the reasons we're doing this - the 'developer' arm of Nokia is not only aware but invested (and invests) a lot of work in Python (see the projects you mention above) but it seems sometimes concrete feedback from outside Nokia can be helpful, to help intra-Nokia decision (i.e. Ovi people being out of touch :)) | 12:49 |
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| dneary | Hi | 13:05 |
| dneary | You know the PR 1.2 SMS issue? | 13:05 |
| lcuk | morning dave | 13:05 |
| dneary | I didn't have that | 13:05 |
| lcuk | what issue.. ? | 13:05 |
| Venemo | what SMS issue? | 13:05 |
| dneary | MyNokia sign-up is compulsory | 13:05 |
| dneary | sign-up sends SMS | 13:05 |
| dneary | That one | 13:05 |
| dneary | Venemo, http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription | 13:06 |
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| Venemo | dneary: that is not an "SMS issue" | 13:06 |
| dneary | Venemo, Well, that's what I'm calling it :) | 13:07 |
| Venemo | dneary: I thought you meant there was an issue with sending SMSs | 13:07 |
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| dneary | The MyNokia issue, if you prefer | 13:07 |
| Venemo | yes, I prefer | 13:07 |
| Venemo | thank you :P | 13:07 |
| dneary | You just take out your SIM card before booting 1.2 | 13:07 |
| dneary | No registration | 13:07 |
| Ikarus | it is an issue | 13:08 |
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| Ikarus | I still want Nokia to pay me back for that and to destroy any data on me | 13:08 |
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| barisione | does anybody know which process reads the /etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf file? | 13:09 |
| Saviq | barisione: sounds like pulseaudio, no? | 13:10 |
| Saviq | can anyone please tell me if/where can I find automake-1.11 in the scratchbox? | 13:10 |
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| X-Fade | Saviq: Only 1.10 as max. | 13:10 |
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| barisione | it's actually a link to /usr/share/policy/etc/rx51/pulse/xpolicy.conf | 13:10 |
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| barisione | and it's maybe read by an ohm plugin | 13:11 |
| barisione | but I'm not sure | 13:11 |
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| Saviq | barisione: it's definitely a pulse policy file | 13:12 |
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| chem|st | dneary: doesn't it register the minute you put in your sim? | 13:16 |
| dneary | chem|st, not if you squash the cherry | 13:17 |
| chem|st | and what was that gnome spam about btw | 13:17 |
| barisione | Saviq_afk: but handled by what? pulseaudio directly? ohm? an ohm plugin? | 13:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | barisione: tried lsof? | 13:19 |
| barisione | yes | 13:19 |
| barisione | it's not open atm | 13:20 |
| barisione | probably it's read at boot and closed | 13:20 |
| barisione | so no info | 13:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | probably it's read whenever new policy is enforced | 13:21 |
| sivang | achipa: we need to invite OVI people for some barbeque day at the Virgin Isalnds and show them how importnt python is :) | 13:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | so switching from hanset to speakerphone and back should give you an opportunity to trace. Also maybe temporarily rename the file and see who's blowing chunks? | 13:23 |
| sivang | achipa: It is quite amazing to see how much effort and invetment Nokia puts into Python and still that open letter needs to be sent :) | 13:23 |
| achipa | sivang: indeed | 13:23 |
| sivang | achipa: I guess what we need here is more patience, Nokia is a great and large company and so things are addressed slowly but surely | 13:24 |
| sivang | achipa: I don't think there's such a python offering for development on other platforsm, is therE? | 13:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | but surely? muhaha | 13:24 |
| achipa | sivang: nope (jailbreaks and hackery notwithstanding) | 13:25 |
| sivang | achipa: exactly :) | 13:25 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: see the wide offering, and also, things are happening. PySide happened, Maemo happened as well :) | 13:25 |
| achipa | sivang: and especially not with FULL system integration (system libs, UI bindings, etc) | 13:25 |
| sivang | achipa: right, I shut my iPhone freinds mouths everytime they say something and I show them how much contorl I have :) | 13:26 |
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| * DocScrutinizer humbly points to freesmartphone.org v1 (entirely python) on Openmoko | 13:28 | |
| Venemo | achipa: could you tell me what's the problem with Python, and what is this open letter thing all about? | 13:28 |
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| * kirma eyes maemo wiki page stating that n900 camera is seriously diffraction limited | 13:33 | |
| kirma | as far as I understand, it's not really too diffraction limited when taking into account the fact that on bayer filter based camera, value of a single sensor pixel doesn't represent the actual color resolution of the device | 13:34 |
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| RST38h | what is color resolutionanyway? | 13:36 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: what do you mean it is entrily python? and it is said there that it can be used on Maemo and MeeGo ? | 13:36 |
| achipa | Venemo: Python is not an officially supported language/runtime on Maemo/MeeGo. We want to support it becoming one (so you could submit Python(/Python-Qt) apps to Ovi, with the side-effect of working out a way of how to mediate shared libs/runtimes between Ovi and Extras | 13:36 |
| kirma | well, I mean, if the camera would be strictly monochromatic, it would be diffraction limited | 13:36 |
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| kirma | but demosaicing causes closest pixels of same color to be further away than immediately next to each other anyway | 13:37 |
| RST38h | even when it is not monochromatic, it is still diffraction limited | 13:37 |
| achipa | Venemo: currently, it's in Extras and has the status of community support (even though PyMaemo and PySide are mostly Nokia/subcontractor projects) | 13:37 |
| RST38h | kirma: you are simply going to get chromatic aberrations as result of the same diffraction | 13:37 |
| RST38h | kirma: So, no free lunch | 13:38 |
| kirma | of course | 13:38 |
| kirma | but whole claim of "five megapixels" and equating that with good-quality rgb data on every pixel is just so misleading imho ;) | 13:38 |
| * RST38h doubts diffraction the the problem with those shitty phone cameras | 13:38 | |
| kirma | most probably not | 13:38 |
| RST38h | Plain heat noise dwarfs whatever you are getting from diffraction | 13:39 |
| lcuk | kirma, not that it matters, camera saves jpegs by default | 13:39 |
| RST38h | lcuk: you can save a pretty decent jpeg | 13:39 |
| lcuk | sure | 13:39 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: let's just limit ourselves to (mainstream) mobile platforms with commercial repositories | 13:39 |
| RST38h | lcuk: so, jpeg compression is also not a large factor | 13:39 |
| sivang | achipa: ;) | 13:40 |
| kirma | camera outputs raw 10-bit data to be exact... software does stuff and rapes it to jpegs after demosaicing and all ;) | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | achipa: what? | 13:40 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizerhumbly points to freesmartphone.org v1 (entirely python) on Openmoko | 13:40 |
| RST38h | lcuk: main probles are 1) tiny sensor and 2) shitty optics | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | <achipa> DocScrutinizer: let's just limit ourselves to (mainstream) mobile platforms with commercial repositories | 13:40 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Both od these are directly related to the need to have a flat camera module | 13:40 |
| sivang | RST38h: I wonder how the camera is on N8/9 | 13:40 |
| RST38h | sivang: probably as shitty. | 13:41 |
| sivang | RST38h: on 9 as well? | 13:41 |
| achipa | RST38h: shitty or not, it's not diffraction limited. Or you don't calculate diffraction limited the way I do :) | 13:41 |
| kirma | kernel-userland inteface actually provides only that 10bpp bayer-filtered sensor data, but somehow they have managed to write gstreamer stuff to not expose this directly, even if v4l2 does | 13:41 |
| RST38h | lcuk: The only known way to avoid this limitation has been used in N93/N93i | 13:41 |
| lcuk | RST38h, the camera is most certainly not shitty | 13:41 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Where the whole camera is located along the edge of the device | 13:41 |
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| lcuk | its better than any ive had on a *phone* | 13:42 |
| RST38h | lcuk: It *is* shitty. No zoom. Most details are smeared, even in daylight | 13:42 |
| RST38h | lcuk; Yes, it is pretty good for a phone | 13:42 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: But compare it with, let us say, a little Casio P&S (definitely not the best camera around), and you will see what I mean | 13:42 |
| alterego | what repo is screen in? I can't find it anywhere ... | 13:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | achipa: mobile platform: OM-Y, maemo-Y, commercial repository: what's that? mainstream: OM-N, maemo-N | 13:43 |
| RST38h | lcuk: The current N900 camera can be at best compared with Samsung or GE P&Ses | 13:43 |
| jacekowski | X-Fade: are you there? | 13:43 |
| lcuk | RST38h, completely different, even compact dedicated cameras have more space for light | 13:43 |
| kirma | the camera module on n900 can, btw, provide over 12fps on full-sensor resolution | 13:43 |
| lcuk | errr lens thingy | 13:43 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I.e. absolutely bottom side of the range | 13:43 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Well, as I said, the problem is thast you have to keep it flat | 13:43 |
| * lcuk sees things differently | 13:43 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: And yes, you can avoid this by placing your camera module alonge the edge of the device | 13:44 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: exactly, that's what we are saying, Maemo/MeeGo does NOT have it and there is no reason (technical) for not having it | 13:44 |
| RST38h | lcuk: http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/g6jBuajn6uEllvOdHwVPpHSX_tcc75-H50YiMkxzKGSSrrvXLxlGtnoJnsU_d7X8o_tcqOOWYEH9DmbFdO-Sc3NRxD45U7bFRqQq8d9CM1Gfv5cJ28AjoR-ld7OEnjtKzuF4mYeL5x9zT45Fgmi2-0j1ihkJ44G9PEs_2XJsRwRlD6jgbho_Jjf-T55NRrEkabaZ | 13:44 |
| kirma | too bad that happens to be 80 MBps of raw data that nothing really can compress, but it should be possible to do some other nifty things | 13:44 |
| RST38h | lcuk: or here: http://www.ixbt.com/mobile/images/nokia/n93/nokia-n93-90.jpg | 13:44 |
| lcuk | RST38h, sure, thats got a lens and sensor large enough to let in ample light | 13:45 |
| lcuk | kirma, really | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | achipa: mhm. I just don't see the point in the whole debate | 13:45 |
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| kirma | lcuk: really what? | 13:46 |
| achipa | RST38h: Some people tell me my Yaris is the bottom side of the range (the exact expression was toy-car). I look around and it's the best car in the street. Depends on your reference point, I guess. | 13:46 |
| lcuk | 12fps full resolution | 13:46 |
| haj | mmmmm .. Yaris | 13:46 |
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| lcuk | achipa, exactly | 13:46 |
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| kirma | I tried through gstreamer, and saw something like 5fps, but the camera module alone is capable of 12fps... dunno about the hardware around it, exactly | 13:47 |
| RST38h | achipa: Yaris still gets you between points A and B | 13:47 |
| lcuk | what resolution? | 13:47 |
| wazd | everybody seen fake n9 promo? :) | 13:47 |
| kirma | should really write direct v4l2 tests to experiment with it | 13:47 |
| haj | achipa: I have a Yaris... mostly I ride my bicycle though (Live in Copenhagen) | 13:47 |
| lcuk | RST38h, and n900 camera takes excellent shots without carrying another camera | 13:47 |
| mece | hello.. | 13:47 |
| mece | bäck | 13:47 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: the point is that Ovi DOES want to be a serious commercial channel and MeeGo DOES want to a mainstream platform, and Python (with bindings) DOES exist, and yet... no commercial Python apps are possible | 13:47 |
| RST38h | achipa: To get a decent photo with an N900 you have to have lighting conditions exactly right and be very lucky too | 13:47 |
| sivang | RST38h: I've takens ome amazing photos with it, comapred even to a normal non prof digicam | 13:47 |
| haj | achipa: If it had been any bigger I'd have to spend a lot more time trying to find a place to park it... ;) | 13:47 |
| kirma | lcuk: my experiment was with 5 megapixels, 25xx*19xx whatever | 13:48 |
| lcuk | sivang, indeed | 13:48 |
| lcuk | kirma, interesting | 13:48 |
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| lcuk | kirma, 5fps is very very nice if capable | 13:49 |
| RST38h | sivang: Of course you may have taken good photos with it. It is just that the percentage of such photos is kinda low | 13:49 |
| kirma | I didn't store the data anywhere, but when I have more time (I wish!) I should write v4l2 code to experiment both the direct access and writing it so that the peak performance can be measured | 13:49 |
| lcuk | at least for full res | 13:49 |
| mece | x-fade, thanks, if you did something. Either way the package (qlister 0.2-6) appeared in the page now. | 13:49 |
| lcuk | RST38h, some people are optimists - i gather you arent one :p | 13:49 |
| kirma | couple raw frames can be held in memory, and by any measure, it should be possible with NEON etc to do quite a bit per frame to select a "good" one out of three, for instance | 13:50 |
| pexi | achipa, they want you to know linux system programming and not to use the rapid develop of innovations | 13:50 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yeo, that too | 13:50 |
| lcuk | kirma, im thinking object detection requiring full resolution images | 13:50 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But I also tried using N900 camera and most results I have got are pretty dismal | 13:50 |
| pexi | achipa, for reasons beyond me | 13:50 |
| RST38h | lcuk: for a camera, not for a phone, of course | 13:50 |
| kirma | lcuk: depends on your definition of "object detection" | 13:51 |
| lcuk | kirma, i have my ideas :) | 13:51 |
| achipa | let me explain the Yaris thing. People say it's dangerous because mine has a 990 cc engine and that I tempt fate every time I try to take over someone. True, a bigger engine, sportier features would help (well, not on Serbian roads, but I digres). But the Yaris is not a sportscar. That's the point. Ditto for the N900 cam module. It's not a photo camera. | 13:51 |
| kirma | lcuk: the camera module spec is here: http://retiisi.dyndns.org/~sakke/foo/SMIA95_AF_camera%20module_APL_090511.doc | 13:51 |
| lcuk | RST38h, me and girlfriend went away for a short break recently | 13:51 |
| lcuk | we both had n900s | 13:51 |
| lcuk | we both took photos of the same things ish | 13:52 |
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| achipa | but the N900 cam DOES get you from point A to point B | 13:52 |
| lcuk | my photos turned out crap and blurry | 13:52 |
| mece | achipa, the yaris is good and boring, while the n900 is perhaps a bit sketchy, but very exciting though. | 13:52 |
| lcuk | hers (385/290 actually) turned out really well | 13:52 |
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| mece | achipa, IMO | 13:52 |
| lcuk | most camera photography issues are down to the operator | 13:52 |
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| * lcuk knows hes a crap cameraman | 13:52 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: Drink less :) | 13:52 |
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| Venemo | alterego: are you here? | 13:53 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I have no problem with the blur. I also have no problems making photos with a real camera. | 13:53 |
| achipa | mece: after Yugos and Fiat 126s, I can tell you the Yaris is VERY exciting :D | 13:53 |
| lcuk | RST38h, wasnt drinkning, was justclosest to a real comparative test i can give you with different results | 13:53 |
| pexi | n900 is rather like an italian sports car than japanese people transporter | 13:53 |
| pexi | *carrier | 13:53 |
| Venemo | achipa: thanks for your explanation, and sorry for my late response | 13:53 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But whatever I take with the N900 is only suitable for posting on the web | 13:53 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Not to mention thumbnailer kicking in after the first few photos and making the device unusuable for a few minutes | 13:54 |
| lcuk | RST38h, we have printed lots of ours out and have saved memories with it :) | 13:54 |
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| mece | achipa, Fiat 126 is pretty exciting, as int if I crash, will I die or simply be horribly disfigured :D | 13:54 |
| achipa | RST38h: yes, the thumbnailer should be put to death, no complaints there | 13:54 |
| mece | s/int/in/ | 13:54 |
| lcuk | and if thats not what a camera is for then i dont know what it is | 13:54 |
| infobot | mece meant: achipa, Fiat 126 is pretty exciting, as in if I crash, will I die or simply be horribly disfigured :D | 13:54 |
| pexi | fiat 126.. legendary | 13:54 |
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| pexi | oh teh horror | 13:54 |
| mece | LOL | 13:54 |
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| achipa | mece: yeah, I know the feeling. I have to go 150+ in the Yaris to get the wobbly feel of a 126 at 80 :D | 13:55 |
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| Venemo | hey alterego, are you there? :P | 13:55 |
| * RST38h looks up Fiat126 and suddenly recognizes what that thing is | 13:55 | |
| alterego | yup | 13:55 |
| achipa | and I did kiss the ground on two occasions after getting out of my (ex) 126 | 13:55 |
| RST38h | That sucker is based on Fiat 500, isn't it? | 13:56 |
| jacekowski | mece: well, fiat 126p is a quite safe car | 13:56 |
| jacekowski | mece: engine is on the back | 13:57 |
| * sivang wants an Austin Powers' Mini. | 13:57 | |
| jacekowski | mece: so if somebody hits you into the back he will meet quite heavy engine first and then another meter away is driver seat | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | kirma: lcuk: RST38h: take 12fps while moving focus, and possibly with a 1,4,1,4 sensitivity sequence. Then bufer to RAM in RAW and select the best shot *after* lucky-luke-shooting a pic | 13:57 |
| alterego | Venemo: you want me to help with you home view issue right? Well, good news, I'm back at home and have my proper computer. Bad news, I'm a bit hung over and I'm about to jump in the shower. Can you hold on about 45 mkinutes for me to sort myself out? :P | 13:57 |
| jacekowski | mece: and there is huge crumple zone in front | 13:58 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer2, i dont want to take best shot, i want to process live images | 13:58 |
| lcuk | so effectively using as much data as can get | 13:58 |
| jacekowski | mece: and you can't get it to any dangerous speeds anyways | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | lcuk: still my suggestion would avoid autofocus delay | 13:58 |
| lcuk | im not interested in saving the favorite after | 13:58 |
| lcuk | sure | 13:58 |
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| lcuk | actually take the combination of photos during the AF selection | 13:59 |
| achipa | jacekowski: if someone hits you in the back, you won't have a neck to turn around to see what happened | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | lcuk: HDR also possible that way | 13:59 |
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| lcuk | yup | 13:59 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Anyway, let me give you an example | 13:59 |
| RST38h | lcuk: sunny day, panorama, no shake | 13:59 |
| jacekowski | achipa: nope | 13:59 |
| jacekowski | achipa: engine is heavy and far away from you | 13:59 |
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| jacekowski | achipa: so lot of energy will be absorbed by it | 14:00 |
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| achipa | jacekowski: I was getting at the seats - no whiplash protection AT all | 14:00 |
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| kirma | lcuk: the camera module specification document says 5 megapixels is possible at 12.92 fps... I don't know if OMAP3 ISP or other stuff on N900 supports that | 14:01 |
| jacekowski | 5mbit*12 = 60mbit/s | 14:01 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | kirma: I'd guess the OMAP video IF can cope with that | 14:01 |
| jacekowski | no way it will handle it | 14:01 |
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| kirma | jacekowski: no, 5*12.92*10 | 14:02 |
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| achipa | jacekowski: as for the front... I did have a frontal crash as a passenger with an Audi into a (luckily only parked and completely empty) 126. The impact didn't even trigger the Audi's airbags, but in the 126, the steering wheel was touching the seat. That's when I switched from the 126 to a Yaris. | 14:02 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Magnify and check out the details | 14:03 |
| kirma | actually more like 6*12.92*10 because there is padding stuff | 14:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | jacekowski: and what is your claim of "OMAP can't cope with 60MBit" based on? | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | jacekowski: look at USB2 | 14:04 |
| kirma | CCP2 rate listed on the data sheet for that more is 640 MBps... still something that OMAP3 should be able to handle I guess | 14:05 |
| lcuk | RST38h, im viewing through vnc | 14:05 |
| lcuk | it is meaningless | 14:05 |
| Venemo | alterego: sure, np | 14:05 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer2: but then you have to process it | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | jacekowski: nobody wants to process that | 14:06 |
| jacekowski | no? | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | jacekowski: ""... Then buffer to RAM in RAW and select the best shot *after* lucky-luke-shooting a pic"" | 14:07 |
| jacekowski | hmmmm | 14:07 |
| jacekowski | i just calculated it incorrectly | 14:07 |
| jacekowski | 24bit*5M*12 | 14:07 |
| achipa | I recall seeing some bechmarks of the zoom2 doing about 7.5fps in full resolution... | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | still incorrect | 14:08 |
| jacekowski | why? | 14:08 |
| achipa | (that's a 3430 with a 8mpix cam IIRC) | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | [2010-06-16 13:02:31] <kirma> jacekowski: no, 5*12.92*10 | 14:08 |
| jacekowski | why *10? | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | see backscroll | 14:08 |
| kirma | jacekowski: not 24 bit, raw pixel values are 10 bit, and they're whatever the color component on the bayer filter happens to be for that pixel :) | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | I'm not your backscroll grep | 14:08 |
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| kirma | achipa: "zoom2" ? hm? | 14:09 |
| jacekowski | so you have 600Mbits | 14:09 |
| achipa | kirma: TI's reference OMAP3 device | 14:09 |
| jacekowski | that would fill n900 ram in 4s | 14:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | fine | 14:09 |
| jacekowski | assuming that you can use all | 14:09 |
| achipa | kirma: http://mobile.engadget.com/2009/04/07/symbian-foundation-selects-tis-zoom-2-as-first-reference-design/ | 14:09 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | 3s more than needed | 14:09 |
| kirma | achipa: I see | 14:10 |
| achipa | a sort of 'official' beagleboard | 14:10 |
| haj | Hm .. even though it would be "piracy" it would be nice if Vagalume could just save all tracks regardless of copyright... But I guess that tracks are downloaded seperate from the stream.. ? | 14:10 |
| kirma | the point of "full-frame video", for me, would be having a back-buffer of couple raw frames which could be quickly analyzed, and the selecting the "best" | 14:10 |
| jacekowski | haj: well, it's legal to record anything on radio | 14:11 |
| jacekowski | kirma: define analysed | 14:11 |
| kirma | memory bandwidth and NEON/SGX performance of OMAP3 should be more than ample to perform some analysis/rescaling for live ~13 fps stream | 14:11 |
| jacekowski | kirma: at HD resolution | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | kirma: also with DSP you could probably implement picture stabilization easily | 14:12 |
| haj | jacekowski: actually there is a vagalume plugin for saving all tracks... but I guess it would require porting to run on the N900 ;) | 14:12 |
| lcuk | kirma, wicked! | 14:12 |
| kirma | jacekowski: simple rescaling, viewfinder "demosaicing" (not really it), blurriness estimate | 14:12 |
| jacekowski | 2,576 x 1,936 pixels | 14:12 |
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| jacekowski | 1080p is 1920x1080 | 14:13 |
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| jacekowski | which is less than half of n900 camera resolution | 14:13 |
| kirma | absolutely no meaningful video compression could be achieved, though, but some individual-image/rescaled image-to-image analysis might be possible to perform | 14:14 |
| jacekowski | not in realtime | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | kirma: diff is surely possible | 14:15 |
| jacekowski | so it might be that it takes some images | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | jacekowski: why not ? | 14:15 |
| jacekowski | process them | 14:15 |
| jacekowski | and then couple seconds later you get ready photo | 14:16 |
| lcuk | edge and feature detection analysis is possible certainly | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | jacekowski: exactly | 14:16 |
| jacekowski | but that's not realtime | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | lcuk: also exactly | 14:16 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | :-) | 14:16 |
| jacekowski | and thing is | 14:16 |
| jacekowski | why photos are fucked up? | 14:16 |
| jacekowski | because it's out of focus | 14:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | so ? | 14:16 |
| mece | achipa, anywaaaay, http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4051/4297141997_f688777f43_m.jpg | 14:17 |
| kirma | jacekowski: it really depends mostly on memory bandwidth usage, one has to choose algorithms meaningfully and the sizes of rescaled images where they are applied in a sensible way... and then choosing the full-frame raw data for further processing on that basis | 14:17 |
| mece | :D | 14:17 |
| jacekowski | taking more photos with same focus setting is not going to fix the problem | 14:17 |
| achipa | do you want to bracket foxus ? | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | jacekowski: [2010-06-16 12:57:46] <DocScrutinizer2> kirma: lcuk: RST38h: take 12fps while moving focus, and possibly with a 1,4,1,4 sensitivity sequence. Then bufer to RAM in RAW and select the best shot *after* lucky-luke-shooting a pic | 14:17 |
| lcuk | jacekowski, photos are screwed up often by user error :p | 14:17 |
| lcuk | i cant take a decent photo | 14:17 |
| lcuk | ever with any camera | 14:17 |
| jacekowski | how fast n900 can focus? | 14:17 |
| lcuk | but my missus makes even a disposable camera look good | 14:17 |
| jacekowski | it's electronic | 14:17 |
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| jacekowski | but you have to send command to chip over i2c | 14:18 |
| MohammadAG | I make a 10MP cam look rubbish | 14:18 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | jacekowski: please don't start to get silly now | 14:18 |
| jacekowski | it will not fix MohammadAG's problem | 14:18 |
| lcuk | thats because hes special | 14:19 |
| MohammadAG | and he owns a fscked up uSD card :) | 14:19 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: how you managed to do it? | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | ~ MohammadAG | 14:19 |
| infobot | [mohammadag] special | 14:19 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, not really sure, running fsck | 14:20 |
| MohammadAG | to fix it | 14:20 |
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| kirma | I'm quite intrigued by full frame panorama stitching, potentially even without stopping the camera movement (when it's sufficiently slow). I think that's in some aspects too much to hope to work, but implementing things directly on the raw-sensor bitstream, multithreaded operation with intelligent buffering and sdhc card writing and all might give impressive results nonetheless | 14:22 |
| kirma | but probably I don't have time to work at it ;) | 14:22 |
| manjiri | ut_mvirtualkeyboard.o: In function `Ut_MVirtualKeyboard::cleanupTestCase()': ut_mvirtualkeyboard.cpp:(.text+0xc43): undefined reference to `MPlainWindow::instance()' | 14:22 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Oh | 14:23 |
| manjiri | this is the error I am getting while 'making' duikeyboard | 14:23 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Well, if you do not look through vnc, you will see that most of the landscape is basically made of spots | 14:23 |
| manjiri | which is part of harmattan UI framework | 14:23 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: probably indicating a really bad lense | 14:23 |
| manjiri | Anybody has any suggestions? | 14:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | kirma: one full rotation in 2s, taking 12fps, that should give nice panorama | 14:25 |
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| kirma | DocScrutinizer2: not really feasible. I'm thinking of something more on the range of full turn in 20 seconds... | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | kirma, why isn't 2s not feasible? | 14:27 |
| lcuk | motion blur! | 14:27 |
| kirma | the motion blur at that speed is around one pixel at 1/1000 second exposure, which is smallest I've seen on the phone with sunny photography on the phone | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | hmm, that's what I thought about | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | but that depends on exposure time largely | 14:28 |
| RST38h | lcuk: in all directions? | 14:28 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | kirma: which is good ebough I'd say | 14:28 |
| RST38h | lcuk: with the close-by grass not shoing any blur? | 14:28 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: looks like a really bad lense to me | 14:29 |
| kirma | interestingly enough, of course, if one would be able to perform motion estimation precisely during the operation, one could stack up data from multiple low-exposure frames on the fly, but I doubt if that can be accomplished | 14:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | actually you can even postprocess compensate for a known motion blurr | 14:30 |
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| toggles_w | 14:30 | |
| DocScrutinizer2 | seen this some years ago, no idea what the rather complex mathematics behind it were | 14:30 |
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| kirma | postprocessing is of course possible, and with good actual-data based motion estimate, it could be good, but motion blur of more than couple pixels would be already hard to keep acceptable | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | think it was based on virtual inverse holographics | 14:32 |
| kirma | NEON, DSP and SGX GPU have computing power sufficient to do many things on the phone, but still pretty limited amount when doing them in real time... | 14:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | kirma: well, you say 1pixel@1/1000s | 14:33 |
| kirma | roughly on that ballpark | 14:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | 1 << couple | 14:36 |
| kirma | my thought of how things can be done is mostly based on the idea that array and whole picture processing is efficient (and feasibly writable in comparison to DSP) on NEON, and stuff involving texture lookup based processing is most efficient on SGX GPU | 14:37 |
| manjiri | Hi, has anybody tried compiling virtual keyboard thats part of Harmattan UI Framework? | 14:37 |
| RST38h | kirma: Once again, CPUs are not the bottleneck in mobile devices | 14:38 |
| RST38h | kirma: Memory is | 14:38 |
| kirma | DMA transfers to SDHC card are relatively fast (one uncompressed full frame per second or so), and transfer of incoming frames should also be relatively free from CPU load viewpoint | 14:38 |
| kirma | but of course, if one can't get something like that to run nicely on 8-way desktop system with latest GPU, don't try it on the phone :) | 14:39 |
| Herwood | Hi, has anyone tested Harmattan UI framework's widget gallery app? I'm having terribly low fps (2-3) and I was wondering that is it normal. | 14:40 |
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| Stskeeps | is it software rendering? | 14:41 |
| crashanddie | kirma: what size of frame? | 14:41 |
| Herwood | yeah | 14:41 |
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| Herwood | I have dual core cpu, but it seems to suck all the power from it | 14:41 |
| achipa | 'device using more power than it is receiving' - that's a new one... | 14:42 |
| kirma | crashanddie: 2592x1968 at 10bps | 14:42 |
| kirma | 10bpp | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | Herwood: software rendering will suck horridly. ask w00t | 14:42 |
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| * w00t_ reads up | 14:43 | |
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| Herwood | Stskeeps: oh :( is there any way to get it run with hw rendering at x86? | 14:43 |
| RST38h | achipa: has been a while | 14:43 |
| w00t_ | Herwood: how new is your build of libmeegotouch? | 14:43 |
| RST38h | achipa: usually when charging from USB | 14:43 |
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| Herwood | w00t_: I cloned it yesterday from gitorius | 14:44 |
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| w00t_ | okay, what are you running? widgetgallery? | 14:44 |
| Herwood | yeah | 14:44 |
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| achipa | RST38h: have not met it before, but as they say, if you're young enough, every joke is new :) | 14:44 |
| Herwood | and it's really slow :P | 14:44 |
| w00t_ | Herwood: are you passing -software? | 14:44 |
| modules | hello, is it possible to use a usb webcam with n900? | 14:45 |
| w00t_ | (widgetsgallery -software, that is) | 14:45 |
| Herwood | w00t_: hmm, I haven't tried that one | 14:45 |
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| alterego | modules: does the N900 currently have a host USB port? | 14:45 |
| Herwood | w00t_: Oujea! It works like a charm! Thanks! | 14:46 |
| manjiri | Hi, has anybody tried compiling virtual keyboard thats part of Harmattan UI Framework? | 14:46 |
| w00t_ | Herwood: np | 14:46 |
| alterego | modules: put another way, where on the N900 would you plug it in? | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | achipa: means your battery will be empty eventually, if you don't stop that usage pattern | 14:46 |
| w00t_ | manjiri: I did a long time ago, though I didn't succeed at the time | 14:47 |
| manjiri | ok | 14:47 |
| Herwood | w00t_: Is there any page with good hints for using Harmattan UI FW somewhere? I've only browsed through the docs directory found in the source codes. | 14:47 |
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| haltdef_ | so guys, is there any possibility of a working extended battery for the n900? :( | 14:47 |
| w00t_ | manjiri: if you run into problems.. mention, and i'll see if i know anything helpful :) | 14:47 |
| w00t_ | Herwood: not really that I know of, as it's a fairly new creation | 14:48 |
| lcuk | haltdef_, ive seen mention of one in places | 14:48 |
| manjiri | I have been getting the following error: ut_mvirtualkeyboard.o: In function `Ut_MVirtualKeyboard::cleanupTestCase()': ut_mvirtualkeyboard.cpp:(.text+0xc43): undefined reference to `MPlainWindow::instance()' | 14:48 |
| manjiri | and more... | 14:48 |
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| w00t_ | Herwood: note that for maximum portability, you probably want to avoid it anyway - and only use it if you specifically need some of the features it provides | 14:48 |
| achipa | DocScrutinizer: I realize, just found it funny in a no $#!+ sherlock manner (the message popped up when I *disconnected* the USB cable) | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | haltdef_: google n900 mugen | 14:48 |
| w00t_ | manjiri: at a *guess*: make sure you've got an up-to-date copy of libmeegotouch | 14:48 |
| haltdef_ | just out off by the mugen one because of the mattery meter not working | 14:48 |
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| haltdef_ | not being able to trust the battery meter, ick :( | 14:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | haltdef_: It would be possible to improve on the stock battery meter with a widget | 14:49 |
| modules | aloril: red that n900 has an usb port and somebody is working on software support? | 14:49 |
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| haltdef_ | is it a maemo problem rather than mugen then? | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | achipa: haha. then the detector for negative charging balance was faster than the disconnect detection | 14:50 |
| alterego | Heh, finally back on my laptop, I've not used it in a week, been relying on the N900 for the past 5-6 days ^.^ | 14:50 |
| Herwood | w00t_: yeah, I just wanted to try it out and see how it works and what it offers | 14:50 |
| w00t_ | Herwood: :) | 14:50 |
| alterego | Even managed to get some pretty good coding done. | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | modules: yes. correct :-) | 14:51 |
| Shapeshifter | Any German users of Tchibo around? Anyone tried the 1 Euro sim together with the Internet-Flatrate L option? And, does anyone know if I can buy Tchibo SIMs in their shops (or do I have to order online)? | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | haltdef_: exactly | 14:51 |
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| modules | will this software support also allow to add a usb hub + usb webcam? | 14:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | modules: basically yes | 14:52 |
| haltdef_ | meh, just live with it sounds like my best bet | 14:52 |
| SpeedEvil | haltdef_: yes | 14:53 |
| haltdef_ | stock battery just about makes it but if I decide to browse over 3g for longer than usual it won't :P | 14:53 |
| mece | qlister 0.2-6 is now in testing, fixes an important dependency issue, and enables autorotation. Info: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=716758&postcount=56 vote: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/qlister/0.2-6/ | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | haltdef_: A solution that puts the battery meter on the desktop is almost trivial - a couple of lines of shell | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | yep | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | queenbeecon | 14:54 |
| haltdef_ | that'll show the real percentage remaining when the built in meter lies? | 14:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | haltdef_: yes. | 14:54 |
| haltdef_ | excellent, thank you | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | roughly, but more reliable than maemo guestimeter | 14:54 |
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| mJo | w00t_: MY copy of libmeegotouch is just a coupla days old | 14:59 |
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| plastun | where to find info about program localization? | 15:06 |
| plastun | for maemo, of course | 15:06 |
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| RST38h | mameo.org? | 15:06 |
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| RST38h | plastun: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Application_Development/Maemo_Localization | 15:08 |
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| plastun | RST38h, thnks | 15:08 |
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| passeli|w | hi, i have this same issue with gdb on N900 -> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=708293#post708293 | 15:14 |
| passeli|w | cannot install gdb | 15:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | Can I with amixer save and restore card state easily? | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | It seems I have to parse the output of 'contents' and feed it in manually | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | SpeedEvil: alsactl -f xxx.state store | restore | 15:18 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 15:18 |
| SpeedEvil | thanks | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | np | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | SpeedEvil: maybe you want to gibe a --card parameter (not checked if alsactl needs or even allows) | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | give | 15:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | yeah - worked that out | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | 'store 0 | 15:20 |
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| th3hate | How to move a file from ./MyDocs to home/user/.kmplayer using terminal? | 15:21 |
| th3hate | whats the command | 15:21 |
| Scelt | cp | 15:22 |
| vldcnst | mv | 15:22 |
| Scelt | oh, sorry | 15:22 |
| DrIDK | Hi ! How can I disable selection in QWebView? Because, when I m trying to move into the page, it select in the same time! | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | mv ~/MyDocs/file ~/.kmplayer | 15:22 |
| Scelt | mv yes | 15:22 |
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| th3hate | File name is playlist.xml | 15:23 |
| th3hate | so mv ~/MyDocs/playlist.xml ~/.kmplayer | 15:23 |
| th3hate | ? | 15:23 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | yep | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 15:23 |
| th3hate | thanks | 15:23 |
| Scelt | th3hate: you can do it! | 15:23 |
| th3hate | need root? | 15:23 |
| Scelt | njet | 15:24 |
| Scelt | meaning no | 15:24 |
| vldcnst | depends.. | 15:24 |
| Scelt | it's your home | 15:24 |
| DrIDK | Second question : I m using QStackedWidget! But I have no button to go back, when I m showing a second widget | 15:24 |
| Scelt | but you shouldn't need | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | "man mv "could also help, alas you need to do that on your desktop linux - unless you installed mandb | 15:24 |
| Scelt | th3hate: if it says permission denied, use root | 15:24 |
| th3hate | ok | 15:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | if it says permission denied, then better doublecheck what you're doing, as the command above will fail under root anyway and odds are you misspelled anything - the user cmd should work for the case you asked about | 15:26 |
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| th3hate | it worked | 15:26 |
| th3hate | thanks | 15:26 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | th3hate: consider installing package 'mc' | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | midnight commander | 15:27 |
| th3hate | it's installed | 15:27 |
| th3hate | but don't know how to use it | 15:27 |
| th3hate | complicated | 15:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | lol | 15:27 |
| sx0n | nokia published profit warning | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | the only complicated thing is you need to use ESC+<number> instead of F<number> to do the commands in bottom line hotkeys. and you need to know F9 = open menu, F0 (aka F10) = close | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | down, nokia, down down down | 15:29 |
| sx0n | -8% | 15:30 |
| sx0n | -10% | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | o fsck | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | sx0n: live stock? | 15:31 |
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| sx0n | or something.. no, just old. | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | thought it's going down 2% in 10s :-P | 15:31 |
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| plastun | should I write some addition code after _ = gettext.gettext for working localization for my program well. (use Python) | 15:32 |
| plastun | ? | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | th3hate: maybe yet another thing good to know: ctrl-i is 'mark this dir/file'. then all F5 aka cp, F6 aka mv/ren, F8 aka delete etc will act on all marked items | 15:34 |
| th3hate | thats in mc? | 15:34 |
| sx0n | DocScrutinizer, about -12.5% in 30 min. | 15:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | th3hate: yes, and it's incorrect. the correct key is usually 'insert' to mark/unmark | 15:35 |
| modules | DocScrutinizer2: do you know where i can get more informations about usb + hub (+webcam), maybe a status or something? | 15:36 |
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| mece | name a pyqt app in extras that's not qlister | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | h-e-n.garage.org | 15:37 |
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| modules | thx | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31921&page=109 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52227&page=14 | 15:38 |
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| Stskeeps | andre__: +1 for your post | 15:41 |
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| mece | ~seen Noobmonk3y | 15:42 |
| infobot | noobmonk3y <~c2b06924@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.176.105.36> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 6d 40m 29s ago, saying: 'its an app that needs to be used after you've screwed up your n900 normally'. | 15:42 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: which post? | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | planet.maemo.org one | 15:58 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: ah, SMS thingy | 16:00 |
| sivang | rather odd. | 16:00 |
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| Stskeeps | ooh. i have liquorice in my backpack | 16:00 |
| GAN900 | andre__, thanks for putting that out there. ;) | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | GAN900: ?? | 16:01 |
| * Stskeeps misses the activistic and constructive maemo.org | 16:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer2 | aah | 16:01 |
| Stskeeps | at least it seems like the heroes are still around and means best | 16:01 |
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| andre__ | GAN900, least I can do before suing them ;-) | 16:01 |
| andre__ | GAN900, and from the many issues I have at least one I can talk about in public without problems | 16:03 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, suddenly holding a dead platform in your hands and collaborating on a dead website does that to you. | 16:04 |
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| alterego | teeleelee | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't say dead, but so it goes | 16:05 |
| alterego | CTRL+SHIFT+META+l :) | 16:05 |
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| mece | aaw crap! | 16:06 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, well, we aint the Zaurus community | 16:06 |
| GAN900 | and it's effectively dead to 90% of people. | 16:06 |
| GAN900 | Nokia's message to us as a community is an awfully tough one to overcome, too. | 16:07 |
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| mece | how does one add a screenshot to extras app? | 16:07 |
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| frals_ | mece: maemo.org/downloads, find your package, login and then "edit" in the toolbar | 16:08 |
| MohammadAG | mece, open the Downloads page and... nvm | 16:08 |
| * MohammadAG slaps frals_ | 16:08 | |
| mece | I don't see an edit link | 16:10 |
| mece | also, guys, could you test/vote for the new verswion, because this dependency issue is seriously annoying. http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/qlister/0.2-6/ | 16:10 |
| alterego | I wish some people would vote for my app :P | 16:11 |
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| mece | alterego, so link it. I don't know what it is or what it does or what it's called. | 16:12 |
| GAN900 | alterego, which one? | 16:12 |
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| * SpeedEvil votes for apps for sexual favours. Or chocolate. | 16:12 | |
| MohammadAG | mece, it's in the top bar, page > edit | 16:12 |
| MohammadAG | o.O | 16:12 |
| mece | frals_, MohammadAG, thanks | 16:12 |
| alterego | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/media-im-status-updater/0.2/ | 16:12 |
| MohammadAG | lol only two votes (spam tmo!!!) | 16:13 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: tried no one is interested obviously :P | 16:13 |
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| DrIDK | ? No idea how disable selection action in QWebView ? It make me crazy to select text when I scroll down the page!! | 16:15 |
| mece | alterego, very cool app! | 16:16 |
| mece | ok gotta go. | 16:16 |
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| alterego | 3 votes! AWESOME :D | 16:16 |
| MohammadAG | someone wants a vuvuzela horn app... | 16:17 |
| MohammadAG | that thing is so f***ing annoying... | 16:17 |
| * SpeedEvil is one of those boring people that actually employs the QA checklist, rather than simply thumbing. | 16:17 | |
| alterego | I don't even know what that is. | 16:17 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: :P | 16:17 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, http://www.vuvuzela-time.co.uk/www.maemo.org | 16:18 |
| lcuk | better with bitly actually | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | WTF?! >>You don't have permission to access /aklapper/wp-comments-post.php on this server.<< | 16:19 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 16:19 |
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| alterego | Is there a dbus call, or something to move between hildon home views? | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | andre__: ^^^ | 16:20 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, I'd thank your post if you had one here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56329&page=2 xD | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | andre__: they made you lock your blog's comment function? | 16:20 |
| E0x | alterego: hehe is a cool app but is not very "useful" | 16:21 |
| E0x | :P | 16:21 |
| alterego | E0x: how many apps are useful? | 16:21 |
| E0x | not much to be honest | 16:21 |
| E0x | what is why i quote "useful" | 16:22 |
| alterego | I think it's neat, as an example of how you can integrate two systems already inplace on the N900 to enhance what we already have. | 16:22 |
| E0x | my mom think i am neat too | 16:22 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, done | 16:22 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer, who is "they"? :-P and what is your IP address (might be blocked because of spammers) | 16:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | omg | 16:23 |
| alterego | E0x: and you might not think it's useful, but a lot of people like doing it. Also, it's me playing around with mafw, and I was going to write a geolocation updating map of where you were, and what you were doing, like listening to, etc. :) | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | they == Nokia, obviously | 16:23 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, done, and lol'd at qwerty's post xD | 16:23 |
| E0x | alterego: they already something for location at you status | 16:24 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer: Sorry, but conspiracy theories are already sold out for today. So no Nokia involved. And no, nothing is blocked from here... weird | 16:25 |
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| alterego | E0x: but that's now what I said is it :P | 16:25 |
| alterego | E0x: Mine's the opposite, it's a timeline, displayed on a map. | 16:25 |
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| alterego | Not updating IM status with your location | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | andre__: well, so let me tell you here I think Nokia really screwed it this time | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | and I hope it'll hurt | 16:26 |
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| E0x | alterego: oh ok , i got it | 16:27 |
| achipa | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2WH8mHJnhM | 16:27 |
| achipa | that hurts | 16:27 |
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| ghostcube | huhu, any news for da rollercoaster game | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | and I bet it will, as that's a safe case for any german lawyer | 16:28 |
| ghostcube | and who is doing blessn900 and mamsynth | 16:28 |
| pupnik | what are those ghostcube | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | andre__: ""Abmahnwelle"" | 16:30 |
| ghostcube | hmmmm yeah our lawyers are stupid bad asses | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | you bet they are, and they know when it's easy money, like 1000 bucks for a letter | 16:31 |
| ghostcube | pupnik: BlessN900 is an photo app working nice but some things to mention and maemsynth is an synthi for maemo just wanting to say good work and keep it going | 16:31 |
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| ghostcube | DocScrutinizer i have my own lawyer here a room cross the floor | 16:31 |
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| ghostcube | and i know there are some bastards of them in germany | 16:31 |
| ghostcube | :) | 16:31 |
| pupnik | ty, wonderful to see some music program | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | are HDR pics supposed to be bad looking? :P | 16:31 |
| pupnik | now give us host mode so we can hook up midi-controllers to n900 | 16:32 |
| ghostcube | pupnik: maemsynth has a nice beat machine now inside | 16:32 |
| ghostcube | woah i loaded an HD MKV yesterday into mplayer | 16:32 |
| ghostcube | BAD IDEA | 16:32 |
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| ghostcube | :D | 16:32 |
| E0x | ghostcube: but with multitouch is not very good play with maemsynth | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | andre__: you know how much of the premium SMS fee is for Nokia, per SMS? | 16:34 |
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| ghostcube | E0x: yeah thats right | 16:35 |
| ghostcube | http://pymt.eu/ | 16:35 |
| ghostcube | :) could solve it maybe | 16:35 |
| andre__ | DocScrutinizer, no idea | 16:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | I doubt this will be a black number under that line in the end for Nokia | 16:35 |
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| Mece | alterego, what was your app called again? | 16:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | media-im-status-updater | 16:42 |
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| Mece | wait a sec, is pyside in extras? | 16:44 |
| Venemo | hey | 16:44 |
| Venemo | if anyone has seen the "Get Started" upp | 16:45 |
| Venemo | (I launched it just now accidentally) | 16:45 |
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| Venemo | what is the background on the desktop in that stuff? | 16:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | Nseries from the N95 8GB iirc | 16:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | black shades right? | 16:45 |
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| Dassu | gotta tell you guys that Im pretty suprised of opera's potrait usability | 17:04 |
| * Dassu wonders if it has adblock feature | 17:04 | |
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| PhonicUK | hey all | 17:08 |
| PhonicUK | which is better, MAME or SDLMAME? | 17:08 |
| PhonicUK | or are they actually the same? | 17:08 |
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| PhonicUK | nm, MAME is the new version | 17:09 |
| PhonicUK | btw hi everyone ^_^ | 17:09 |
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| _berto_ | never tried MAME in the n900, does it work at a good speed? | 17:11 |
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| Dassu | woot opera is pretty cool actually. Not like firefox which is simply a microb clone | 17:18 |
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| pupnik | those MAMEs could use some work | 17:19 |
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| jacekowski | Dassu: yeah, but i really want notes in it as well | 17:20 |
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| PhonicUK | _berto_, I tried it with Metal Slug - playable but very slow | 17:25 |
| PhonicUK | I guess around 30-50% speed | 17:25 |
| _berto_ | ugh | 17:26 |
| _berto_ | I'd like to try older games anyway | 17:26 |
| _berto_ | pitfall, ghosts n goblins, | 17:26 |
| _berto_ | the former should work ok I guess | 17:26 |
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| PhonicUK | Needs an option to disable sound really | 17:27 |
| _berto_ | I guess you can tweak xmame.cfg | 17:27 |
| SpeedEvil | stop pulseaudio | 17:27 |
| _berto_ | even if it's from the command line | 17:27 |
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| PhonicUK | i changed it a little using nano :) | 17:28 |
| _berto_ | then there are a few things that you can change to make it faster | 17:28 |
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| PhonicUK | ooh? | 17:29 |
| PhonicUK | like? | 17:29 |
| _berto_ | frame drop | 17:30 |
| PhonicUK | already got that on | 17:31 |
| _berto_ | sound on/off | 17:31 |
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| _berto_ | I don't remember, man xmame lists a few | 17:31 |
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| _berto_ | but I haven't changed it for years | 17:31 |
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| _berto_ | that was necessary with my old 486, but not now with a Core 2 :) | 17:32 |
| PhonicUK | lol | 17:32 |
| PhonicUK | I'm tempted to OC' to 900MHz | 17:32 |
| PhonicUK | but don't really wanna void the warranty | 17:32 |
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| pupnik | renaming romsets is always fun | 17:32 |
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| _berto_ | does that still happen? | 17:36 |
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| pupnik | i wouldn't know | 17:38 |
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| pupnik | i think it would be possible to make desktop links to launch mame for specific games, setting controlls for each | 17:39 |
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| * GAN900 thinks it's time to unsticky the brainstorm threads. | 18:08 | |
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| alterego | Heh | 18:08 |
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| pupnik | how happy are you with brainstorms leading to actionable decisions? | 18:09 |
| pupnik | wonder if kotczarny is alive | 18:11 |
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| alterego | pupnik: there have been a couple that have been fruitful from what I remember. | 18:13 |
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| alterego | Mostly they don't though? | 18:13 |
| pupnik | well that's to be expected | 18:15 |
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| pupnik | but if somethings do come of it, i think the idea is a success | 18:15 |
| DrIDK | how can I test if I m using maemo or not ? If ( Maemo) do it... | 18:15 |
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| sivang | pupnik: speaking about some of my threads ? :) | 18:16 |
| DrIDK | or #ifndef .... | 18:16 |
| pupnik | at compile time or run-time DrIDK | 18:16 |
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| DrIDK | compile tilme | 18:17 |
| DrIDK | pupnik: compile tie | 18:17 |
| DrIDK | pupnik: compile time | 18:17 |
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| pupnik | i don't recall how to get it into the makefile/configure but everyone uses #ifdef MAEMO | 18:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | PhonicUK: you particularly don't want to get bashed for doing stupid things for the rest of your life | 18:23 |
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| PhonicUK | eh? | 18:25 |
| PhonicUK | ah, tab completion | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | eh? OC | 18:25 |
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| PhonicUK | ? | 18:29 |
| PhonicUK | aah | 18:29 |
| PhonicUK | I thought you where talking to pupnik because of the delay xD | 18:29 |
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| jacekowski | so you're saying that DocScrutinizer2 is slow? | 18:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | ~overclocking | 18:32 |
| infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" | 18:32 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer2: good never comes out of it that's for sure :) | 18:33 |
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| alterego | Anyone here know much about gconf and notify callbacks? | 18:34 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer2, lol. | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | GAN900: ? | 18:39 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer2, but maybe if you let them overclock they'll die of radiation exposure. | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | hehe | 18:39 |
| * GAN900 hears overclocking increases the gamma output. | 18:39 | |
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| Venemo | what gamma output? | 18:40 |
| Venemo | this is nonsense | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | sure, the field gradients in such a small chip exceed the GV/m range easily :-) | 18:40 |
| pupnik | it's really the alpha radiation you gotta watch out for, when eating n900s | 18:40 |
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| alterego | Anyone know why this doesn't work? http://pastie.org/1006992 | 18:41 |
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| GAN900 | pupnik, thankfully the case blocks most of that. | 18:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | Not me, but media-im-status-updater updates video statuses too | 18:42 |
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| MohammadAG51 | so I get <unknown> for both fields, and I'm not even listening to anything | 18:42 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: Yes, it does :P | 18:43 |
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| alterego | That's going to be fixed in the next version. | 18:43 |
| alterego | Along with support for internet radio | 18:43 |
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| MohammadAG51 | cool! | 18:43 |
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| GAN900 | Now everybody can know what I'm consuming at all hours! | 18:44 |
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| alterego | Oh, I need to to 'add_dir' .. | 18:46 |
| E0x | alterego: yes | 18:47 |
| E0x | hehe iwas looking for it now | 18:47 |
| E0x | too late | 18:47 |
| alterego | :) | 18:47 |
| E0x | i do exactly the same thing | 18:47 |
| E0x | for a workspace indicator | 18:47 |
| alterego | Cool | 18:47 |
| alterego | :) | 18:47 |
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| E0x | but not remember the function name of gconf-lib and i was looking for it | 18:48 |
| alterego | :) | 18:48 |
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| E0x | and my code is at home | 18:49 |
| GAN900 | alterego, when will it report the name of the website you're browsing? :P | 18:49 |
| E0x | ( at work righ now ) | 18:49 |
| alterego | GAN900: that's a different app :P | 18:49 |
| alterego | microb-im-status-updater :P | 18:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | Cool! | 18:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | Now everyone can know when I'm watching.... | 18:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | the world cup | 18:50 |
| alterego | :) | 18:50 |
| alterego | Hah | 18:50 |
| E0x | or www.xvideos.com | 18:51 |
| E0x | ( NSFW) | 18:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | tsk tsk tsk | 18:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | you should say NSFW 6 seconds before you put up a link, not after | 18:51 |
| alterego | Heh | 18:51 |
| E0x | MohammadAG51: sorry , my bad | 18:52 |
| E0x | :( | 18:52 |
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| MohammadAG51 | lol idc, but someone out of those > 557 might | 18:52 |
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| jacekowski | MohammadAG51: what you were expecting from that link? | 18:54 |
| jacekowski | with X in it | 18:54 |
| jacekowski | x in name adds 90% to probability of it being porn | 18:55 |
| lcuk | and when you exclude xmen xgames castlemine xxxx, you are left with 99.999% | 18:56 |
| frals | :D | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG51 | or a x = kiss | 18:56 |
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| E0x | kiss = sex | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | jacekowski, I was expecting a repository of... | 18:57 |
| frals | kiss = pee in swedish :< | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | rofl | 18:57 |
| frals | tis true | 18:57 |
| E0x | pee = pr0n | 18:57 |
| pupnik | offtopic E0x is offtopic | 18:58 |
| jacekowski | pr0n isn't offtopic | 18:59 |
| E0x | hehe | 18:59 |
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| E0x | Ansel-A is really cool btw | 18:59 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 19:01 |
| alterego | Might have a play with it later. | 19:01 |
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| MohammadAG51 | why does everyone refer to porn as pr0n, it's not like... everyone doesn't already know what it means | 19:01 |
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| alterego | Heh | 19:02 |
| E0x | MohammadAG51: well i start use it back in the irc download pr0n time | 19:02 |
| vldcnst | work obfuscated | 19:02 |
| E0x | and was the term used , i don't exactly the orgin of it | 19:02 |
| E0x | but i can't stop of use it in that way | 19:02 |
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| MohammadAG51 | vldcnst, I doubt your boss doesn't know what pr0n means | 19:03 |
| vldcnst | MohammadAG51: I don't have a boss, and if I did I doubt he would. | 19:03 |
| alterego | E0x: so what does your current workspace app do? | 19:03 |
| alterego | Does it show a notification with the number of the view or something> | 19:04 |
| alterego | ? | 19:04 |
| E0x | back to the n900 topic , hmm i not sure if is the right way of work but when i go to zone without 3g signal i get 2.5g of course but when i back to the are with 3g signal my phone donde come back ( automatic ) to 3g , some time it did it but 98% not | 19:04 |
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| MohammadAG51 | just make a call or something | 19:04 |
| E0x | alterego: that part i don't complete yet but i was looking for show it in the desktop and fade it out | 19:04 |
| alterego | Ah, right. | 19:05 |
| E0x | ( the number of the current destkop ) | 19:05 |
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| alterego | Why not just use a hildon notification? :P | 19:05 |
| E0x | alterego: yes was a option | 19:05 |
| Mece | E0x, I think it goes 3G if there is demand. | 19:05 |
| E0x | Mece: yes is what i do | 19:05 |
| E0x | oh wait | 19:05 |
| E0x | you mean if i go to the browser | 19:05 |
| E0x | and star video some video or something ? | 19:05 |
| Mece | for example | 19:06 |
| E0x | ( righ now i use the apple swicher put it 3g then go back to dual and it stay in 3g ) | 19:06 |
| E0x | Mece: in that case not , is not work | 19:06 |
| E0x | i need do it manually | 19:06 |
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| Mece | E0x, ok. | 19:09 |
| E0x | alterego: what you will do ? | 19:09 |
| E0x | your* | 19:09 |
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| alterego | E0x: Oh, I'm not actually doing anything with it, I was helping Venemo with his home view issue. | 19:11 |
| E0x | home view ? | 19:11 |
| alterego | E0x: that's the proper name for "workspace" in maemo/hildon-home terms :P | 19:11 |
| E0x | alterego: maybe i will change my app to a pager , something ( like the linux one ) | 19:12 |
| E0x | ok | 19:12 |
| alterego | Cool | 19:12 |
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| * E0x if my lazyness let me do it | 19:12 | |
| alterego | The idea is, when he detects that a certain home view is being displayed he can create his desktop applets for that display. | 19:12 |
| alterego | Which will allow him to dynamically add applets to all home views and restore them after a system restart. | 19:13 |
| alterego | Without having to use a home plugin loader. | 19:13 |
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| E0x | ok | 19:14 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; Hi, how's it going? | 19:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | hi | 19:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm distracted | 19:32 |
| timeless_mbp | i have one or two minor things to do for l10n | 19:32 |
| timeless_mbp | but in front of that is maemo 1.2 mxr | 19:32 |
| timeless_mbp | in front of that is meego mxr | 19:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | and in front of that is bonsai-hg (graph) | 19:32 |
| timeless_mbp | the graph stuff is nearly done, hopefully by tomorrow | 19:33 |
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| Trizt | timeless_mbp; you should clone yourself | 19:33 |
| Trizt | timeless_mbp; do you work with n900 when doing meego or you got some new secret device? | 19:34 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:35 |
| alterego | Even Nokia are working with the N900 for MeeGo Trizt | 19:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | if it's the latter he won't say anything about it... | 19:35 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:35 |
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| timeless_mbp | i use amazon cloud when working w/ meego | 19:35 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a secret ec2 | 19:35 |
| Trizt | Then I'll ask a friend of mine and hear what kind of meego device they use ;) | 19:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | i also use a secret macbook pro | 19:36 |
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| MohammadAG51 | so secret even your nick doesn't say _mbp | 19:36 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:37 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG51, yeah he normally has it after his nick | 19:38 |
| lcuk | but now, theres not | 19:38 |
| alterego | Looks like since PR1.2 the forecasted development increase from the community is occuring. | 19:38 |
| lcuk | <Trizt> Then I'll ask a friend of mine and hear what kind of meego device they use ;) | 19:38 |
| lcuk | <timeless> i also use a secret macbook pro | 19:38 |
| lcuk | * teilzeitstudent has quit (Quit: Leaving) | 19:38 |
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| lcuk | alterego, where was this forecast predicted? | 19:38 |
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| alterego | lcuk: Just general chit-chat on tmo I guess. | 19:40 |
| alterego | And the fact that people seemed to say they were waiting for PR1.2 to be released before they'd develop certain things. | 19:40 |
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| alterego | Even the whining seems to have calmed down. | 19:40 |
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| lcuk | its not wrong :) ive seen lots of chatter about it, the qt on flash changes things for many folks | 19:40 |
| alterego | Though I'd imagine it's because the whiners have got bored of it by now :) | 19:41 |
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| Trizt | timeless_mbp; I guess those "fixes/checks" for pr1.1.1 has not been done? | 19:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | ? | 19:42 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm, is 1.1.1 broken? | 19:43 |
| timeless_mbp | (in my locale stuff) | 19:43 |
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| Trizt | timeless_mbp; last time we talked, you were looking for a tester to test the latest fixes you had done | 19:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | oh, i don't think i got a tester | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | you did | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | and it worked | 19:45 |
| timeless_mbp | oh, ok :) | 19:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | What's the beagle channel again - I forgot. | 19:45 |
| * timeless_mbp has no working memory :) | 19:45 | |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: beagle | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: Damn their complicated nomenclature. | 19:46 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if adobe could be convinced to hand out a 'adaption kit' to a community organisation. | 19:50 | |
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| Gadgetoid_iPad | I wonder if Adobe could be convinced to die in a car crash | 19:53 |
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| MohammadAG51 | I wonder if Apple could be convinced to choke on an.... Apple | 19:53 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | If you could choke Apple, it'd cough up money | 19:54 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | If you could choke Adobe, they'd steal your wallet | 19:54 |
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| Gadgetoid_iPad | Here, have some software that hasn't been updated significantly in 10 years, and is buggier than a superglue covered abacus: only £5000 | 19:55 |
| alterego | Gadgetoid_iPad: you base that assumption on any facts? | 19:56 |
| alterego | Gadgetoid_iPad: and leave if all you're going to do is troll please. | 19:56 |
| MohammadAG51 | why, he's talking about the iPad :) | 19:57 |
| alterego | I thought he was knocking adobe and clearly being an Apple ganboi. | 19:58 |
| alterego | fan/gay-boi :P | 19:58 |
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| alterego | At least, that's what it sounded like to me. | 19:59 |
| MohammadAG51 | nah, he frequents this place | 19:59 |
| MohammadAG51 | I'm sure he's not a troll | 19:59 |
| alterego | Fair nuff, my mistake | 20:00 |
| alterego | I get grouchy when I'm hungry :P | 20:00 |
| alterego | Got stir fry tonight though, so I'll be happy again in no time :D | 20:00 |
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| MohammadAG51 | lol | 20:00 |
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| RST38h | moo punks | 20:02 |
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| pupnik | timeless_mbp: i've said before that i think i have about 64KB real working memory | 20:03 |
| pupnik | the rest is swapped to google and notes | 20:03 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: have you run the pattern test on the remaining 64kB? | 20:04 |
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| RST38h | no bad cells? =) | 20:05 |
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| pupnik | holographic memory ftw | 20:05 |
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| Gadgetoid_iPad | alterego: who, what, when, where? | 20:08 |
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| RST38h | Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac to delist shares from NYSE | 20:09 |
| * RST38h laughs satanically | 20:09 | |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | I was definitely knocking Adobe, though! | 20:09 |
| alterego | :) | 20:10 |
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| Gadgetoid_iPad | But I have too short a gadget attention span to be an Apple fanboi | 20:10 |
| alterego | Gadgetoid_iPad: because Jobs told you to? Or because you have some kind of facts to back up that statement? | 20:10 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | alterego: I hated Adobe long before the whole silly flash fiasco | 20:10 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | I hated Adobe BEFORE it was cool | 20:10 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | Goddamn Apple hipsters have made hating Adobe a bad thing now! | 20:10 |
| alterego | Well, you have a point. | 20:11 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | So I publicly declare my hate for Autodesk! | 20:11 |
| alterego | Though, I don't hate adobe, but I've always been quite against Flash | 20:11 |
| alterego | That is until BBC iPlayer .. | 20:11 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | BBC iPlayer is flash? weird... works well on my iPad | 20:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | move out of the UK, problem solved | 20:11 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | I always thought iPlayer used gypsy magic | 20:11 |
| alterego | Gadgetoid_iPad: they have iPhone support, which is probably what you're seeing. | 20:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | HTML5 prolly (on the iCrap :P) | 20:12 |
| alterego | Some h264 encoded or something. | 20:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah, html5 | 20:12 |
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| MohammadAG51 | why does CPU usage skyhigh when my battery is low | 20:13 |
| alterego | Last great grasp of life? :P | 20:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | xD | 20:14 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | There may be things fundamentally wrong with Flash, but some good things can be accomplished with it | 20:14 |
| alterego | I should probably attempt to install scratchbox SDK at some point. | 20:14 |
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| alterego | As I'm going to need it very soon :/ | 20:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | nah | 20:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | just use devel | 20:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | xD | 20:15 |
| * MohammadAG51 stabs trackerd | 20:15 | |
| alterego | Hungry, where is this damn food | 20:16 |
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| timeless_mbp | pupnik: heh | 20:17 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | pssst... the iPad really isn't crap! | 20:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | meh | 20:17 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | specially if you want to shut up a wife for a few hours! | 20:18 |
| MohammadAG51 | o.o | 20:18 |
| alterego | Heh | 20:18 |
| pupnik | < Gadgetoid_iPad> Goddamn Apple hipsters have made hating Adobe a bad thing now! << QOTD :) | 20:18 |
| alterego | After seeing that MeeGo tablet, the iPad looks like a toy :P | 20:18 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | pupnik: it's goddamn true, though! | 20:19 |
| alterego | The iPad, well, it's just too rubbish to be useful. | 20:19 |
| alterego | To me at least. | 20:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | actually | 20:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | a proper laptop can never be replaced | 20:19 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: who said anything about replacing a laptop? :P | 20:19 |
| MohammadAG51 | Most apple fanboys | 20:19 |
| alterego | I wouldn't get rid of mine for a tablet, but the tablet would be useful for other things that don't require a laptop. | 20:20 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | most a | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | Gadgetoid_iPad: I wonder if a frying pan could be used the same way and wouldn't break like the iPad | 20:20 |
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| alterego | Heh | 20:20 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | most apple fanboys dont do anything productive on their laptops | 20:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | I know | 20:20 |
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| pexi | what's wrong with iPad? best e-book reader so far | 20:20 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | they just dick about in coffee shops and attempt to look hip | 20:20 |
| alterego | Gadgetoid_iPad: except flame on other peoples forums :P | 20:20 |
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| alterego | About how great Apple is ^.^ | 20:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | Nothing would replace books too | 20:20 |
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| alterego | And post boring youtube videos about Steve Jobs' crappy keynotes. | 20:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | tbh | 20:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | I was never against apple | 20:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | till the iPhone came out | 20:21 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | I get real work done on my laptop, and bought the ipad to dick about in coffee shops looking hip | 20:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | actually | 20:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | I liked the iphone | 20:21 |
| sivang | alterego: right :) | 20:21 |
| pexi | ipad is great for reading books | 20:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | then saw its users online, and went for an N95 | 20:21 |
| pexi | and articles | 20:21 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG51: they haven't been doing ti completely right even before that, but the level of lock down reached new hights. | 20:22 |
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| Gadgetoid_iPad | MohammadAG51: hahahaha | 20:22 |
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| alterego | pexi: I disagree, if you want to read stuff eink is probably a much better technology . | 20:22 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: what's wrong with their users online? | 20:22 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | i used to use an iPhone, but moved to the n900 when it got popular | 20:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | that was, umm, in 2006 i think | 20:22 |
| sivang | Gadgetoid_iPad: popular? | 20:22 |
| alterego | iPads will cause eye strain, you can't seriously read a lot with one of them .. | 20:22 |
| pexi | the problem with ipad is that it is such a great product that people just want more than it is meant to be :) | 20:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | sivang, oh nothing, nothing at all, check other forums and see how they start flame wars | 20:22 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | sivang: the iPhone, not the n900 | 20:22 |
| sivang | hehe | 20:22 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | the only place the n900 is popular, is ebay | 20:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | check youtube comments (thought most of youtube is flamewars) | 20:23 |
| sivang | Gadgetoid_iPad: you moved to iphone when it got popular? | 20:23 |
| alterego | pexi: that's not the problem with the iPad, the problem with the iPad just like the problem with all the iPhone's is, it's shit. | 20:23 |
| GAN900 | alterego, I read a lot with my N900. :P | 20:23 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | alterego: its a myth that displays cause eye strain! never had a problem myself | 20:23 |
| alterego | Doesn't have any features. | 20:23 |
| Dassu | btw has anybody else noticed that n900 places "cursor" in the middle of the presses? | 20:24 |
| sivang | alterego: heh | 20:24 |
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| Gadgetoid_iPad | sivang: i moved to the n900 when the iphone got popular | 20:24 |
| MohammadAG51 | I hate how, for example, _some_ iPhone users think youtube was made by apple, cause there's a preinstalled youtube app | 20:24 |
| alterego | It's a joke compared to even cheap smartphones on the market. | 20:24 |
| sivang | Gadgetoid_iPad: I see | 20:24 |
| pexi | alterego, well, for me iPad is the best substitute for a real book | 20:24 |
| alterego | Yet people get it, because it's "pretty", and it comes from Apple .. | 20:24 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: tell them to browse to it in iphone :) | 20:24 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | wait, youtube wasn't made by apple? omg this changes everything! | 20:24 |
| MohammadAG51 | meh | 20:24 |
| alterego | pexi: Well, you obviously don't read much .... | 20:24 |
| Venemo | Dassu: yes, so it seems | 20:24 |
| Dassu | this could be used to simulate multitouch as no one is capable of pushing the screen on two points simoultenously | 20:24 |
| alterego | Heh | 20:24 |
| sivang | alterego: I think black makes you look thinner :) | 20:24 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | i am tempted by the dell streak now, as nobody in their right mind would buy one | 20:25 |
| alterego | sivang: you didn't get the white one? :P | 20:25 |
| MohammadAG51 | Gadgetoid_iPad, yeah, now that you know that, I should probably tell you you were never born | 20:25 |
| Dassu | simple vector calculus could provide two points | 20:25 |
| MohammadAG51 | you're just static electricity | 20:25 |
| pexi | alterego, ..but i still prefer printing over ipad :) | 20:25 |
| sivang | alterego: I'd never touch this microkernel message passing crap! | 20:25 |
| alterego | Hahah | 20:25 |
| sivang | :-) | 20:25 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | but the Pandora should eternally satisfy my desire to have a gadget nobody else does (or one nobody else wants) | 20:25 |
| Dassu | however building interface solely on that would be a bitch thing to do | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Dassu: age old idea that never worked | 20:25 |
| GAN900 | alterego, dunno, hardware's pretty nice. | 20:25 |
| GAN900 | Just the software is crippled. | 20:26 |
| alterego | Gadgetoid_iPad: I'm suprised you're not using a Nokia 770 then :P | 20:26 |
| MohammadAG51 | Gadgetoid_iPad, who buys stuff cause a lot/few users have it? | 20:26 |
| alterego | GAN900: hardware looks pretty, still lacks certain things I'd want, like, well, USB ports for one :P | 20:26 |
| Dassu | DocScrutinizer: :( why didnt it work? | 20:26 |
| sivang | N900 enables me to not carry around my notebook and still be as online as I could ever be. iPhone does not enable this. | 20:26 |
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| sivang | Gadgetoid_iPad: what's pandora? | 20:26 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | n900 enabled me to constantly accidentally hang up callers | 20:26 |
| alterego | sivang: agreed, the past 6 days I was without my laptop, I did everything on my N900 including some hacking :) | 20:26 |
| * MohammadAG51 reaches for the red button when he gets a call | 20:27 | |
| MohammadAG51 | it's soo tempting | 20:27 |
| alterego | sivang: it kind of reaffirmed my love for the tablets, especially those that have a 3G modem :) | 20:27 |
| MohammadAG51 | i really like the N900 | 20:27 |
| MohammadAG51 | expected much less when i bought it | 20:27 |
| sivang | alterego: oh yeah! that is so nice. My local Orange operators are crying everytime I tell them I use the N900 for that :) | 20:27 |
| MohammadAG51 | such as problems with switching from 3G to wifi | 20:27 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: I've felt the same about all of the tablets I got. | 20:28 |
| alterego | Except the 770 | 20:28 |
| sivang | alterego: they wanted to sell me a dedicated USB dongle so badlt, with a different data plan! the poor sales representative... | 20:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | sivang, lol called orange IL today, the guy said it's an epic device | 20:28 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | amazing, i am sitting in sunlight and can see the ipad screen! | 20:28 |
| alterego | I hyped that up about right, but the N800, N810, and N900 have all exceeded my expectations in beauty and use. | 20:28 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: HAHA | 20:28 |
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| Gadgetoid_iPad | i loved the n810, but was somewhat lacking for connectivity | 20:28 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: I also managed to get a 60NIS per month 20GB plan | 20:28 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: tell them a friend of yours got that and you want it as well | 20:28 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: :-) | 20:29 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | i want an n810 sized n900 damnit! | 20:29 |
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| MohammadAG51 | wait what? | 20:29 |
| alterego | Heh | 20:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | IL? | 20:29 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: so I pay 60nis a month, and get 20GB | 20:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | IL? | 20:29 |
| alterego | I kind of look at the N810 and it feels like a bit of a toy. | 20:29 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: yes! | 20:29 |
| alterego | Looks and feels .. | 20:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | How?! | 20:29 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | complete with side-talkin' | 20:29 |
| alterego | I still love it though | 20:29 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG51: they screwed me over so much, and I complained, mentioning I have a couple devices, being a forum nokia champion and that I use the connection and ceullar network for distributed work , had them mention inthe stupid Amdocs billing and vantive system my complains, and after 2 months of fighting, I got this plan | 20:30 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: Once a representative cursed me while I was worrying about a lost sim | 20:30 |
| alterego | You're lucky, I'm about to get stitched .. | 20:31 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: he was so reluctant to give service... | 20:31 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG51: you call them and tell them your friend got that, and you want it also. find some kind of a mishap they did (quite easy) | 20:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | Cursed you? Sue! | 20:31 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG51: nahh, don't have the nerves for Israeli court. it sucks bigtime and justice does not prevail. | 20:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | meh, I'll go down to 30MBs for the time, going away for a month | 20:32 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: when you come back, try to get it. if I got it, you can as well | 20:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | or they'll raise your bill and I'll stay on the same plan xD | 20:32 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: if they do, I quit. | 20:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | heh | 20:33 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG51: I don't have an obligatory plan. I threatened to live them, the time after he cursed me and so they gave me this so I will not leave. | 20:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | anyways | 20:33 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG51: :) | 20:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | who uses 20GB :P | 20:33 |
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| shorter | how do you have vibrate on only for texts and not calls? | 20:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | you don't, I guess :P | 20:33 |
| Gadgetoid_iPad | arr ipad chargey time, n900 here i come | 20:33 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: I just have it online all the time, it is quite nice, and on the stupid train that takes ages to go from Haifa to TLV/South it is a life saver. | 20:34 |
| shorter | ouch, I want my old lame phone's functionality | 20:34 |
| MohammadAG51 | sivang, I'm on 5GBs, and I only use less than 1GB | 20:34 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: also allows me to test lots of features and specifically multiple events arriving on phones. | 20:34 |
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| MohammadAG51 | sadly it goes from 150 to 5000MBs, which is stupid | 20:34 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: I use skype alot on that, so now phone bills are very low :-) | 20:35 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: true | 20:35 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: the whole pricing scheme in .IL is screwed. | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | still, you won't use 20GBs | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | - 'pricing scheme' | 20:35 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG51: why not? | 20:35 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: I won't true., but sometimes I'm away and I use it for Gigs of downloads for a couple of days | 20:35 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG51: I'm never offline | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | same | 20:35 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: hack, I have youtube be my playlist out of channels on the N900 | 20:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | That wouldn't take 10MBs | 20:36 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: while on the road :) | 20:36 |
| Gadgetoid | ahhhh | 20:36 |
| luke-jr | 5 GB is patheticly little | 20:36 |
| Gadgetoid | look maw, multitasking! | 20:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | and tbh, 3G is slow here | 20:36 |
| luke-jr | I'd use more than 5 GB with dialup | 20:36 |
| sivang | Gadgetoid: exacrltY! | 20:36 |
| sivang | yes guys, 3G is very slow | 20:36 |
| * luke-jr wouldn't know, as there's no 3G here | 20:37 | |
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| Gadgetoid | that said, backgrounder on the ipad is basically the same thing | 20:37 |
| sivang | Gadgetoid: I show this to iphoners, that my music on the go is actually youtube and they...well...they say it is pretty | 20:37 |
| sivang | :-) | 20:37 |
| sivang | I should blog about this. Such a great experience. | 20:37 |
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| sivang | and I do this while reading emails, online on IRC through SSH, chatting through telepathy and skyping if bandwidth allows. | 20:38 |
| Gadgetoid | playing youtube videos in the car to the stereo via fm is pretty neat | 20:38 |
| sivang | I think I'm inlove with my N900 | 20:38 |
| sivang | Gadgetoid: it is, although I don't have a car. | 20:39 |
| Gadgetoid | although the fm transmitter doesn't do audio quality many favours | 20:39 |
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| sivang | Gadgetoid: pretty is the iphone, I mean, they lack arguments and revert back to "the iphone is so pinky and pretty!" | 20:39 |
| MohammadAG51 | I don't have a license :) | 20:39 |
| Gadgetoid | i would like both an iphone and an n900 | 20:40 |
| * DocScrutinizer makes a pink pony stampede run over iPhone | 20:41 | |
| sivang | anyway people, gotta go back to my couchdb using python monitoring and session mirroring. back alter. | 20:41 |
| Gadgetoid | iphone with rainbows! | 20:41 |
| sivang | later | 20:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | cya | 20:41 |
| sivang | cheers MohammadAG51 | 20:42 |
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| * MohammadAG51 sees DocScrutinizer's stampede using iPhones | 20:42 | |
| Gadgetoid | i wish i had a midget to wipe my ass | 20:42 |
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| sivang | Gadgetoid: I wish that girl I met last thursday would call me. I missed a TSG working group meeting for that. | 20:44 |
| sivang | or was it community apps? hmmm | 20:44 |
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| Gadgetoid | sivang: call her and leave hundreds of creepy answerphone messages | 20:45 |
| Gadgetoid | girls totally dig that | 20:45 |
| sivang | hehe | 20:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Apple is employing honeytraps to distract key developers! | 20:45 |
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| Gadgetoid | i wish i hadn't taken my antiglare screen protector off in favour of a normal one | 20:46 |
| alterego | Wow, sftp really fucks with the device :) | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | uh? | 20:46 |
| Gadgetoid | SpeedEvil... i didn't know winnie the pooh was a programmer | 20:46 |
| alterego | Grinds it to a halt | 20:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | Gadgetoid: Yeah - there are lots of pooh programmers out htere. | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | depends on what you do, I guess | 20:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Or some very similar word. | 20:47 |
| Gadgetoid | i know... when it comes to application programming, I am one of them! | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | alterego: sftp TO the device from e.g konqueror works like a charm and isn't that slow - no way next to a grinding halt | 20:48 |
| Gadgetoid | although I still want to get my heid round objective c and crank out some crappy ipad apps | 20:48 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer2: try using something that obviously uses the flash, like conversations whilst you're doing it. | 20:48 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer2: were you using usb networking or wifi? | 20:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | wifi | 20:49 |
| alterego | Anyhow, bbiab | 20:49 |
| alterego | Oh, I might try wifi then. | 20:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | if memory bus bandwidth to the flash is used up with storing sftp data, I well can see how device is coming to a grinding halt for everything else trying to access storage | 20:50 |
| * RST38h mms | 20:52 | |
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| FIQ | ui-fonts - Fonts for the User Intefrace. | 20:54 |
| FIQ | nice spelling | 20:54 |
| DrGrov | Any themes in the repositories? | 20:54 |
| E0x | sh*t happen | 20:54 |
| MohammadAG51 | shit happens* | 20:55 |
| Gadgetoid | fracepalm! | 20:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | headdesk! | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | why don't I get a single word of the last 6 lines? | 20:55 |
| Gadgetoid | gentlemen, witnes the birth of a meme | 20:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer2, you're using an old dictionary | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | obviously | 20:56 |
| * MohammadAG51 offers DocScrutinizer2 an upgrade | 20:56 | |
| DocScrutinizer2 | peanut butter | 20:56 |
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| jacekowski | i don't get it as well | 20:58 |
| jacekowski | it's not proper english | 20:58 |
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| jacekowski | it's not even american english | 20:58 |
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| ZogG | even texrat thinks that nokia is going mad =) | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | ZogG, do you pay | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | for streaming? | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | damn hildon-desktop | 21:03 |
| ZogG | what streaming? | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | 3G streaming on orange | 21:04 |
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| ZogG | oh | 21:05 |
| ZogG | i have 3g | 21:05 |
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| ZogG | video 3g | 21:05 |
| ZogG | but it's included | 21:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | Try streaming something on 3g.orange.co.il | 21:05 |
| ZogG | anyway we don't have 3g video calls with this stupid phone | 21:06 |
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| MohammadAG51 | ... | 21:06 |
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| flailingmonkey | 3g video calls don't worry me none. they basically don't exist here in the USA | 21:07 |
| ZogG | flailingmonkey stupid USA | 21:08 |
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| ZogG | MohammadAG51 do not want. f orange | 21:08 |
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| flailingmonkey | timeless_mbp, ping | 21:08 |
| jacekowski | well it's probably less than 5% are using video calls | 21:10 |
| jacekowski | and less than 20% made one | 21:10 |
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| ZogG | but if i have 3g and i have front camera | 21:10 |
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| Venemo | they're usually quite expensive in Europe | 21:10 |
| ZogG | and even if i don't use video call | 21:10 |
| ZogG | i want to have this ability | 21:10 |
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| Venemo | at least, in my country | 21:11 |
| Venemo | so noone uses them | 21:11 |
| flailingmonkey | the iPhone 4 isnmt going to help matters, since they basically pooped on 3G video calls | 21:11 |
| ZogG | all our phone companies switched to 3g calls | 21:11 |
| flailingmonkey | now americans will think that is what video calls are | 21:11 |
| ZogG | it's the same | 21:11 |
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| ZogG | ipoop4 | 21:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Will iphone video chat implement http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2010-06/chatroulette-plans-genital-scanning-software-block-perverts I wonder | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | cryPhone, whyPhone, spyPhone | 21:12 |
| frals | :D | 21:12 |
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| ZogG | frals are you Nokia employee now? | 21:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Or even - http://www.digicamhelp.com/camera-features/shooting-modes/face-detection/ allied to the above. | 21:14 |
| frals | ZogG: yes | 21:14 |
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| * MohammadAG51 passes the beer around | 21:14 | |
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| ZogG | frals shame on you =) they bought you. mazal tov | 21:15 |
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| MohammadAG51 | congrats frals | 21:15 |
| RST38h | ZogG: Texrat has got a history with Nokia | 21:15 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: Congrats. | 21:15 |
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| ZogG | RST38h like? | 21:15 |
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| ZogG | i mean ion bad or good way? | 21:15 |
| RST38h | ZogG: Like...google? | 21:15 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: Can you say what you're working on? | 21:15 |
| ZogG | SpeedEvil hypnomeego app =) | 21:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | RX-91 | 21:16 |
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| ZogG | buy meego, buy new phone every 2 months | 21:16 |
| RST38h | behold my mighty psx4all opengles driver! | 21:16 |
| frals | thanks :) | 21:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://cosmikutensil.com/images/hypnotoad2.gif - wallpaper? | 21:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | RST38h, riiiight... | 21:18 |
| ZogG | don't open the link SpeedEvil sent | 21:18 |
| ZogG | you woulnd;t be able to close the page | 21:18 |
| E0x | SpeedEvil: Wow what for live wallpaper could nice | 21:18 |
| * MohammadAG51 just hit X... | 21:18 | |
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| MohammadAG51 | morning VDVsx | 21:19 |
| RST38h | ZogG: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://demotivation.ru/thumbs/20090811/j6ebp0wefbpp.jpg&imgrefurl=http://demotivation.ru/search.php%3Fqq%3D%25E5%25E1%25E8%2B%25E3%25F3%25F1%25E5%25E9&usg=__tkh79pXhZdNIQEpmWhfQxOTgZAQ=&h=194&w=200&sz=13&hl=en&start=7&sig2=qDVoxvCllzZy8D87MxvfXg&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=UVORAtq5Ms8pJM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=104&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%25D0%25B3%25D1%2580%25D0%25B0%25D0%25B1%25D1%258C%2B%25D1%2583%25D0%25B1%25D0%25B8%25D0 | 21:20 |
| RST38h | oh shit sorry | 21:20 |
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| RST38h | ZogG: short URL: http://www.demotivation.ru/6qw2bbb6k7mlpic.html | 21:20 |
| VDVsx | MohammadAG51, hey | 21:20 |
| * VDVsx moos at RST38h :P | 21:20 | |
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| RST38h | VDVsx: moo indeed | 21:21 |
| DrIDK | Where can I find screen specification size of maemo ? For example, the top horizontal menu, height = ? | 21:22 |
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| MohammadAG51 | 60 I think | 21:23 |
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| eitama | Good Evening folks. | 21:24 |
| eitama | Either i am on mute, or people just don't like to chat on IRC. | 21:25 |
| eitama | ): | 21:26 |
| _llll_ | people dont like content-free chat on irc | 21:26 |
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| Surfa | some people | 21:26 |
| flailingmonkey | they are all mesmerized by the hypnotoad | 21:26 |
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| eitama | I see, well I need help with Qt on N900, Anyone here fancy giving me a hand? | 21:27 |
| flailingmonkey | RST38h, so thats what you meant by getting PowerVR working | 21:27 |
| lovelyboy | hi, i want to install libgles2-sgx-img-dev in scratchbox | 21:27 |
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| flailingmonkey | eitama, you might also want to try #qt-maemo | 21:27 |
| lovelyboy | but when i typed fakeroot apt-get install libgles2-sgx-img-dev | 21:27 |
| eitama | I am also there, no one is answering me there as well ): | 21:27 |
| lovelyboy | it failed | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | ~ask | 21:28 |
| infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. | 21:28 |
| lovelyboy | somebody knows why> | 21:29 |
| lovelyboy | plz | 21:29 |
| eitama | I have a QPushButton created at runtime, and added to a QGridLayout | 21:29 |
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| eitama | If i put it's size policy to expand on bboth vertical and horizontal | 21:29 |
| eitama | the button gets chopped | 21:29 |
| eitama | if i put a button with the designer, it looks good | 21:30 |
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| eitama | The code I am using is : | 21:30 |
| eitama | QPushButton *myButton = new QPushButton(); | 21:30 |
| eitama | myButton->setMaximumSize(100000,100000); | 21:30 |
| eitama | myButton->sizePolicy().setVerticalPolicy(QSizePolicy::Expanding); | 21:30 |
| eitama | myButton->sizePolicy().setHorizontalPolicy(QSizePolicy::Expanding); | 21:30 |
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| eitama | What am i doing wrong? | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | is max size supposed to be that weird number? | 21:31 |
| eitama | 16.... | 21:31 |
| eitama | yeah | 21:31 |
| eitama | that the max maxNumber | 21:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | I'd try with 10000 though | 21:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | just a guess | 21:32 |
| eitama | afaik it's constarained by the QGridLayout | 21:32 |
| eitama | So it shouldn't matter | 21:32 |
| eitama | but | 21:32 |
| eitama | I am trying as we speak | 21:32 |
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| eitama | Actually the 1st button is added ok, the 2nd one makes everything mess up | 21:33 |
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| th3hate | Is there a way to modifiy the Wifi chip inside N900? like change the signal strength, power-saving, etc? | 21:35 |
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| eitama | You have some configuration in the Settings | 21:36 |
| eitama | 10mW or 100mW and some levels of power saving. | 21:36 |
| eitama | per Connection. | 21:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | nope | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | isn't per connection afaik | 21:36 |
| th3hate | Where can i find wifi settings? | 21:36 |
| eitama | You reach it after choosing a connection | 21:36 |
| eitama | Open the app menu > Settings > internet connections | 21:37 |
| eitama | Click connections | 21:37 |
| eitama | Click a connection | 21:37 |
| eitama | press next till you get an advanced button | 21:37 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah, it's global for all connections | 21:37 |
| eitama | press it | 21:37 |
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| eitama | go to the 3rd tab | 21:37 |
| MohammadAG51 | a UI enhancement is filed as a bug on bugzilla | 21:37 |
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| eitama | Aha | 21:37 |
| th3hate | thanks eitama | 21:37 |
| eitama | np | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | eitama: I wonder how far your button is supposed to expand | 21:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | infobot, ping | 21:39 |
| infobot | ~pong | 21:39 |
| eitama | if it's the only button at a given moment, it's supposed to fill the entire QGridLayout | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | ~pong MohammadAG51 | 21:39 |
| infobot | MohammadAG51: PONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | 21:39 |
| eitama | I want the buttons to be as big as they can | 21:39 |
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| MohammadAG51 | heh | 21:39 |
| flailingmonkey | the 10mw vs 100mw settings should not be changed | 21:39 |
| SpeedEvil | generally no | 21:39 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer2, I switched to 3G then wifi again, and I'm still connected | 21:39 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not usually a large power draw | 21:39 |
| MohammadAG51 | static local and internet IP ftw | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | eitama: I seem to remember MohammadAG51 ran into some arbitrary max size for buttons | 21:40 |
| flailingmonkey | and apparently does not improve battery life | 21:40 |
| MohammadAG51 | theming problems, not actual button drawing | 21:40 |
| eitama | The 1st button I add looks ok, it's only when the 2nd 3rd etc comes | 21:40 |
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| eitama | it suddenly looks like I have double the buttons | 21:41 |
| eitama | Like the are being chopped in the middle | 21:41 |
| * MohammadAG51 pings w00t_ | 21:41 | |
| MohammadAG51 | oh | 21:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | that's a theming problem | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | eitama: when the first button takes up all the space, then where is the 2nd supposed to live? | 21:41 |
| eitama | How do I overcome it? | 21:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | the documented 105 doesn't work for me | 21:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | make the button smaller | 21:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | sec | 21:41 |
| eitama | When adding the 2nd button the whole thing is supposed to be resized | 21:42 |
| eitama | so that now button1 takes all the height | 21:42 |
| eitama | but half the width | 21:42 |
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| MohammadAG51 | use a size 70 button | 21:42 |
| eitama | and same for the 2nd | 21:42 |
| eitama | size 70 in height? | 21:42 |
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| MohammadAG51 | yes, vertical height :) | 21:42 |
| eitama | Hmmmm | 21:43 |
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| eitama | mobile hotspot Start button is huge | 21:43 |
| * MohammadAG51 too much of a smartass to say width | 21:43 | |
| eitama | How did he do that? | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | we've seen similar issues | 21:43 |
| eitama | How did he do that? | 21:43 |
| MohammadAG51 | check the source :) | 21:43 |
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| flailingmonkey | ~lame flailingmonkey | 21:43 |
| infobot | Ugh, flailingmonkey's aura of lame is affecting me! | 21:43 |
| eitama | Maybe it's not Qt | 21:43 |
| MohammadAG51 | or he uses a custom image | 21:43 |
| MohammadAG51 | hermes has a large button too | 21:43 |
| * MohammadAG51 checks the code | 21:44 | |
| MohammadAG51 | (that's gtk though) | 21:44 |
| eitama | Whats hermes? (: | 21:44 |
| eitama | oh | 21:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | I think the image for button is not supposed to scale up | 21:45 |
| eitama | but 1 button works well (: | 21:45 |
| eitama | that doesn't add up | 21:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | eitama: not really, as first button just resizes to infinite, and you don't see any border. No? | 21:46 |
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| MohammadAG51 | layout = HildonMainScreenLayout(offset = 0.8, container = self) | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | eitama: and I guess as soon as you add 2nd button, both look weird | 21:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | layout.add_button('Retrieve', _("Get contacts' missing info")) | 21:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | cba to fix indentations | 21:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | that's what hermes uses | 21:50 |
| eitama | @Doc you are right | 21:50 |
| eitama | @Moh That C++ GTK code? | 21:50 |
| eitama | thats* | 21:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | yes | 21:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | <DocScrutinizer2> I think the image for button is not supposed to scale up | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | eitama: please don't use @, please try what's the benefit of <tab> | 21:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | it is supposed to (gtk on ubuntu for example), but doesn't on hildon | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | MohammadAG51: bug! :-)) | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | though actually makes some sense | 21:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer2, more like fscked up feature | 21:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | you wouldn't want a pixeled image | 21:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | it should scale properly | 21:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | no need to use an image | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | somebody thought 70 is large enough, when they added the templates | 21:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | but i guess users would complain it's not "pretty" | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer2, the documentation says 105 is thumbsized, but it doesn't work | 21:53 |
| eitama | 1 button : http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/eitama/Screenshot-20100616-215026.png | 21:53 |
| * flailingmonkey did not realize there was tab completion of nicks, is such an IRC newb | 21:53 | |
| eitama | 2 buttons : http://s880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/eitama/?action=view¤t=Screenshot-20100616-215031.png | 21:53 |
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| MohammadAG51 | 012? | 21:53 |
| * MohammadAG51 checks hostname | 21:54 | |
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| MohammadAG51 | OMG, yellowbook? | 21:54 |
| eitama | lol what? | 21:54 |
| eitama | whats a yellow book? | 21:54 |
| eitama | 012 is the shamefully known israeli internet provider (: | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | numbers to dial | 21:55 |
| eitama | those are my contacts | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | oh | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | thought it had all service numbers in IL | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | that's not the same problem I had | 21:55 |
| eitama | I am trying to write an application that will allow dialing to people with max 4 clicks | 21:55 |
| eitama | The idea is : | 21:55 |
| eitama | I scan all the contacts | 21:56 |
| eitama | and add buttons to where you saw the buttons in the screenshot | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | MohammadAG51: actually I thought it is | 21:56 |
| eitama | only for letters that actually exist at index 0 of a contact | 21:56 |
| eitama | after pressing 1 letter | 21:56 |
| eitama | I do it all over again for index 1 | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | that's exactly not sizing but duplicating some background image | 21:56 |
| eitama | and the list on the right gets filtered | 21:56 |
| MohammadAG51 | yes | 21:57 |
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| eitama | It's odd that it doesn't happen with 1 buttons don't you think? | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | eitama, use the default theme and the 1 button app | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah, I suspect the theme has it | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | for some reason | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | eitama: for one button you got no border | 21:57 |
| eitama | How do i get it to expand and fill the QGridLayout nicely then? ): | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | http://i49.tinypic.com/1j4ttu.jpg | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | use custom image, as mohammad suggested | 21:58 |
| eitama | MohammadAG: What did you mean 1 button app? | 21:59 |
| * MohammadAG51 has to say that noobmonk3y suggested that to him | 21:59 | |
| MohammadAG51 | the app with 1 button :) | 21:59 |
| eitama | ah lol | 21:59 |
| eitama | but i need more buttons (: | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | eitama: look at http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac8/eitama/Screenshot-20100616-215026.png , no rounded corners | 22:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | of course you do :P | 22:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | eitama: find the .png or whatever that defines the round corner shape (and background? prolly not), and resize that to 800*480. Then use that instead of default for button bitmap or background or whatever it's called | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | I'd guess that will work lige expected then | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | like | 22:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | /usr/share/themes is where you should look I guess | 22:04 |
| lcuk | BBBBBBBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ | 22:04 |
| lcuk | oh crap, wrong chan :p | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | fsckng indexer. One time you'd really need it, it fails epically :-P | 22:04 |
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| eitama | hmmmm | 22:06 |
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| eitama | *prowling the files* | 22:06 |
| lcuk | eitama, how often will it rebuild the list? | 22:07 |
| flailingmonkey | DocScrutinizer2: you mean there actually is a usecase for trackerd? :P | 22:07 |
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| lcuk | flailingmonkey, try the image browser without thumbnailing :P | 22:08 |
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| MohammadAG51 | grr, why can't i answer yes to all for fsck | 22:08 |
| eitama | lcuk everytime the application starts, it will load cached contacts from file, and in the background, check vs phone memory | 22:08 |
| eitama | as the Qt Mobility api has like 3 seconds lag atm | 22:09 |
| lcuk | eitama, how many contacts have you got? | 22:09 |
| eitama | so i can't do it without caching | 22:09 |
| eitama | and currently it's limited to English only, cause QtMobility has problems with unicode.. ): | 22:09 |
| lcuk | o_O | 22:09 |
| lcuk | i thought only liqbase had that problem :D | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | hahaha | 22:10 |
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| eitama | No it's crap! | 22:11 |
| alterego | what's the link to the package testing queue? | 22:11 |
| eitama | I think I have done somthing so stupid in my garage page. I have demoted myslef to senior developer, and now I don't have admin access to my project lol. | 22:11 |
| lcuk | you plonker | 22:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | http://maemo.org/packages alterego, click user packages (2nd link afaik) | 22:12 |
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| alterego | hahah | 22:12 |
| flailingmonkey | rofl, thats classic | 22:12 |
| eitama | Feel such an idiot | 22:13 |
| alterego | so who wants to test my package? :P | 22:13 |
| flailingmonkey | lcuk, thumnails don't need to have a database of all files | 22:13 |
| eitama | I can't find how to contact them so they can fix it | 22:13 |
| Venemo | eitama:don't worry, just write an e-mail to the garage admins | 22:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | who fancies holding the enter key for 3 hours (maybe less) | 22:13 |
| eitama | Venemo i spent like 2 hours looking for the e-mail address (: | 22:13 |
| eitama | can't find it | 22:13 |
| alterego | I'm on 4/5 at the moment! Need more meat! | 22:13 |
| alterego | 4/10 ... | 22:13 |
| flailingmonkey | a thumbnails should only need to be generated when a file is created or changes. | 22:13 |
| lcuk | flailingmonkey, only one example, but having the thumbs ahead of time is nice | 22:14 |
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| eitama | they even say in the initial approve mail : "Enjoy the system, and please tell others about garage. Let us know | 22:14 |
| eitama | if there is anything we can do to help you." | 22:14 |
| eitama | but no e-mail | 22:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | the only thing I hate about Qt is the documentation | 22:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | i'll stick to gtk, and Fremantle | 22:15 |
| flailingmonkey | need to put hildon-gtk on meego is all | 22:15 |
| Venemo | why, Qt is well-documented? | 22:15 |
| Venemo | at least I thought so | 22:16 |
| lcuk | eitama, bottom of garage page: feedback: mailto:garage@maemo.org?subject=garage%20feedback | 22:16 |
| eitama | I kinda like the Qt documentation, but it does make you google sometimes | 22:16 |
| eitama | I pressed the feedback link a few times (: nothing happened | 22:16 |
| eitama | i didn't think about inspecting the link (: | 22:16 |
| eitama | Thanks!!! | 22:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | eitama: ping X-Fade | 22:16 |
| alterego | how long is the testing queue expiration? and does it get auto bumped back to devel or into Extras? | 22:16 |
| eitama | Who is he? | 22:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer2, you already pinged him :P | 22:17 |
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| MohammadAG51 | alterego, it doesn't expire | 22:17 |
| eitama | ping X-Fade | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | X-Fade: garage 'admin' | 22:17 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer2, X-Fade is indeed person, but he might be busy so its simpler to try find official contact address so he can cope without needing to jump on irc :p | 22:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | 'admin'? | 22:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | why the 's lol | 22:17 |
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| eitama | E-mailed that address. thanks lcuk | 22:19 |
| eitama | MohammadAG51, why do you have 2 users connected? (: | 22:20 |
| MohammadAG51 | cause I'm awesome | 22:20 |
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| MohammadAG51 | one's my PC, the other is my RX-51 (N900) :P | 22:21 |
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| eitama | Aha | 22:21 |
| eitama | ! | 22:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, you know sh stuff right? :) | 22:22 |
| flailingmonkey | MohammadAG51: RX-51 always sounds cool | 22:22 |
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| MohammadAG51 | how do I echo a 1000 returns (enter key presses / line breaks)? | 22:22 |
| flailingmonkey | MohammadAG51: very military :P | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | hahahaha | 22:22 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, i dunno# | 22:22 |
| MohammadAG51 | Area 51 | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | :( | 22:23 |
| flailingmonkey | MohammadAG51: in what context? shell? | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah | 22:23 |
| flailingmonkey | you could pipe input from a file, with a 1000 newlines in it | 22:24 |
| eitama | \n won't work? | 22:24 |
| flailingmonkey | something like: ./program < filename | 22:24 |
| eitama | with a loop | 22:24 |
| MohammadAG51 | idk how to make a loop :) | 22:24 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 22:25 |
| eitama | You are talking about bash? | 22:25 |
| * MohammadAG51 checks DocScrutinizer2's vboost | 22:25 | |
| MohammadAG51 | bash, ash (busybox), whatever :) | 22:25 |
| flailingmonkey | N900 has ash, but bash can be installed | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not ash | 22:25 |
| MohammadAG51 | already have it | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | it's busybox shell | 22:25 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 22:25 |
| MohammadAG51 | BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso30+0m5) built-in shell (ash) | 22:25 |
| eitama | #!/bin/bash | 22:25 |
| eitama | for i in {1..5} | 22:25 |
| eitama | do | 22:25 |
| eitama | echo "Welcome $i times" | 22:25 |
| eitama | done | 22:25 |
| eitama | instead of that echo thingy | 22:25 |
| eitama | use what flailingmonkey | 22:26 |
| eitama | suggested | 22:26 |
| eitama | with a file that contains a newline | 22:26 |
| * MohammadAG51 tries that | 22:26 | |
| eitama | and change 5 to 1000 (: | 22:26 |
| flailingmonkey | you can also just run echo, should output a new line by default | 22:26 |
| eitama | or if have tclsh installed | 22:26 |
| eitama | you could start it | 22:26 |
| eitama | and type | 22:26 |
| eitama | puts "" | 22:27 |
| eitama | inside a while | 22:27 |
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| eitama | after openeding the file (: | 22:27 |
| eitama | opeining | 22:27 |
| eitama | but | 22:27 |
| eitama | I am the only one in the world using tclsh | 22:27 |
| eitama | so | 22:27 |
| eitama | you won't have it | 22:27 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, i think \n should work as eitama says but certainly is 100x better than installing lots of random stuff :P | 22:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | man yes | 22:29 |
| lcuk | echo -e "hello\nworld" | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | for ( i=0; i<1000; i++); do echo; done | 22:30 |
| DrGrov | What is new for today guys? | 22:30 |
| DrGrov | and girls? | 22:30 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | aah, and before I forget | 22:31 |
| vldcnst | DrGrov: the pizza place added a new sauce. | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | I *HATE* BUSYBOX | 22:31 |
| flailingmonkey | yes, echo -e would work. also use -n so it doesn't add an extra newline | 22:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | grr | 22:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | didn't work | 22:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | e2fsck: need terminal for interactive repairs | 22:32 |
| flailingmonkey | the thing is that you still need to redirect those newlines to the input of your program I presume | 22:32 |
| flailingmonkey | ah | 22:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | :/ | 22:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah, a pipe does that | 22:32 |
| flailingmonkey | well, you can either make a file with the newlines, or put that shell script into an executable file and redirect either one | 22:33 |
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| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 22:34 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, DocScrutinizer2 therefore gave you the thing you need | 22:34 |
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| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, I echod the new lines, but fsck is being a smartass | 22:35 |
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| flailingmonkey | doing: fsck < name_of_file should work | 22:37 |
| MohammadAG51 | echo `cat ./test321` | echo "/sbin/fsck.ext3 /dev/mmcblk1p1" | /bin/sh didn't work... | 22:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Err | 22:38 |
| SpeedEvil | why not use the flag? | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | -a? | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | it's too inconsistent | 22:38 |
| SpeedEvil | -p Automatically repair ("preen") the file system. This | 22:39 |
| SpeedEvil | option will cause e2fsck to automatically fix any filesys- | 22:39 |
| SpeedEvil | tem problems that can be safely fixed without human inter- | 22:39 |
| SpeedEvil | vention. | 22:39 |
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| MohammadAG51 | /dev/mmcblk1p1: UNEXPECTED INCONSISTENCY; RUN fsck MANUALLY. | 22:40 |
| SpeedEvil | e2fsck -y - if you just want to run in 'damn the torpedos' mode | 22:40 |
| flailingmonkey | MohammadAG51: your attempt doesn't work | 22:40 |
| flailingmonkey | MohammadAG51: the second echo would ignore the input you piped to it | 22:40 |
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| MohammadAG51 | meh | 22:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | -y worked | 22:41 |
| flailingmonkey | good :-) | 22:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | didn't see that in the man page | 22:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | ty SpeedEvil | 22:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | why is it even fixing lost+found | 22:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | e2fsck: aborted :( | 22:42 |
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| eitama | Where should I put the PNG file? | 22:51 |
| eitama | at the same direcory as the CPP? | 22:51 |
| * MohammadAG51 dumps them in /usr/share/pixmaps | 22:51 | |
| eitama | so this is good? : | 22:52 |
| eitama | QPixmap* pixmap = new QPixmap("back.png"); | 22:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | I guess | 22:52 |
| * eitama sdf | 22:52 | |
| MohammadAG51 | sdf? | 22:52 |
| * eitama was trying to findout how to do those emotes | 22:52 | |
| * eitama is lucky to be a former wow addict, se he got it on the 1st attempt | 22:53 | |
| MohammadAG51 | lolwut mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 failed: Invalid argument | 22:53 |
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| MohammadAG51 | heh | 22:53 |
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| eitama | pixmaps doesn't work. | 22:55 |
| *** `0660 has joined #maemo | 22:55 | |
| lcuk | also avoid using a generic name like "back.png" if you are using a shared folder | 22:55 |
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| InformatiQ | whois X-Fade | 22:56 |
| eitama | it's just development (: | 22:56 |
| eitama | i'll change it later obviously! | 22:56 |
| eitama | thanks for the tip thought! | 22:56 |
| InformatiQ | oops missed the / | 22:56 |
| flailingmonkey | eitama: things like that get forgotten, best not to let yourself have the chance to forget :p | 22:56 |
| lcuk | eitama, why have to faff later renaming :P | 22:56 |
| lcuk | get it right once and forget about it | 22:56 |
| MohammadAG51 | indeed | 22:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | i think i ref*cked my microsd | 22:57 |
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| MohammadAG51 | oh and e2fsck segfauled again | 22:57 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG51, sounds like it | 22:57 |
| flailingmonkey | fsck asked "want me to mess this thing up? N/y" and you auto-yes'd | 22:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | :) | 22:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | oh well, you know what that means | 22:58 |
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| flailingmonkey | A device with a name like RX-51 should either fly or kill | 23:00 |
| flailingmonkey | preferably both | 23:01 |
| eitama | MohammadAG | 23:01 |
| eitama | I put a fill path to the PNG, now it's "working" i can see the background correct, but the button text is gone (: | 23:01 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 23:02 |
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| eitama | facepalm | 23:02 |
| eitama | and vise versa | 23:02 |
| MohammadAG | good thing I had backups of the Ubuntu chroot :D | 23:04 |
| flailingmonkey | MohammadAG51: you're working at Ubuntu on N900? | 23:04 |
| MohammadAG | It works for me already, but my device is in R&D mode so idk how the watchdog would ***** about it | 23:05 |
| MohammadAG | oh and the touchscreen doesn't work, but I suspect there's a step I missed | 23:05 |
| flailingmonkey | sounds like you need some more N900s | 23:06 |
| flailingmonkey | :p | 23:06 |
| * flailingmonkey does voiceover: N900, so good you want TWO! | 23:07 | |
| MohammadAG | LOL no, one's enough for me xD | 23:08 |
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| tuliobaars | hey | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | the tar.gz is 867MBs, I might upload it, some day, or year | 23:08 |
| tuliobaars | is possible to run normal debian apps on turbo easy debian? | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG | turbo? | 23:09 |
| tuliobaars | yeah | 23:09 |
| tuliobaars | the easy-deb-chroot | 23:09 |
| MohammadAG | I know what easy debian is, what did you mean by turbo | 23:10 |
| tuliobaars | and to increase te size of the debian.ext3 image??? is possible? | 23:10 |
| tuliobaars | is a version of the deb-chroot | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | [2010-06-16 22:00:58] <flailingmonkey> A device with a name like RX-51 should either fly or kill | 23:11 |
| * DocScrutinizer2 trows a RX-51 at flailingmonkey ... "see it fly!" | 23:11 | |
| tuliobaars | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/easy-deb-chroot/ | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | feel the kill on impact | 23:12 |
| * MohammadAG opens the battery cover and a can of red bull | 23:12 | |
| MohammadAG | I hope those ads weren't lying about it | 23:12 |
| * tuliobaars Burps! | 23:12 | |
| * tuliobaars Fight of my N810 with a stick | 23:13 | |
| MohammadAG | lol lcuk someone already made a vuvuzella(?) app | 23:13 |
| tuliobaars | hey! how to increase the debian image? | 23:13 |
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| lcuk | yeah MohammadAG | 23:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | MohammadAG: you are definitely too mad | 23:14 |
| * lcuk is busy watching SA lose o_O | 23:14 | |
| MohammadAG | 0-2 xD | 23:14 |
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| flailingmonkey | i suggested that trolls be forced to use t.m.o. using: http://vuvuzela-time.co.uk/talk.maemo.org | 23:14 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer2, yeah, nothing new about that :P | 23:15 |
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| MohammadAG | ~factinfo MohammadAG | 23:15 |
| infobot | mohammadag -- created by DocScrutinizer <~jr@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Tue May 25 19:15:21 2010 (22 days); it has been requested 5 times, last by DocScrutinizer2, 8h 55m 15s ago. | 23:15 |
| MohammadAG | gotcha! | 23:15 |
| flailingmonkey | ~MohammadAG | 23:15 |
| infobot | i heard mohammadag is special | 23:15 |
| * Stskeeps yans | 23:15 | |
| Stskeeps | +w | 23:15 |
| * MohammadAG should've included closed crap in his Ubuntu image | 23:15 | |
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| flailingmonkey | about time for finns to head to bed | 23:19 |
| MohammadAG | it's only 11:19 | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | or people in finnish timezones | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:19 |
| MohammadAG | what's that supposed to mean :P | 23:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | so eitama had no hit on mod-o-fied button image? | 23:19 |
| GAN900 | Silly Europeans | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | poor Americans | 23:21 |
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| eitama | MohammadAG51! | 23:21 |
| eitama | I have found a post on tmo about the texture problem | 23:21 |
| eitama | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=718136#post718136 | 23:21 |
| * MohammadAG kills the other him | 23:22 | |
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| eitama | The dude says he found a solution to set the style to gtk | 23:22 |
| eitama | do you know how to do that? cause the dude didn't elaborate | 23:22 |
| SpeedEvil | ask him | 23:22 |
| SpeedEvil | or her | 23:22 |
| eitama | He is not online, I posted on the forum | 23:22 |
| eitama | but | 23:22 |
| eitama | I want answers now (: | 23:23 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 23:23 |
| eitama | Iv'e been working on this application from the moment I woke up | 23:23 |
| eitama | and barely got any progress | 23:23 |
| eitama | I want to finish it! | 23:23 |
| eitama | So much work to be done | 23:23 |
| eitama | Then i need to find out How to package, and how to upload to extras-devel from windows | 23:23 |
| Venemo | eitama: don't worry, I sympathize with you | 23:24 |
| eitama | hehe | 23:24 |
| eitama | thx | 23:24 |
| Venemo | eitama: I'm also in a similar situation | 23:24 |
| Venemo | although alterego helped me very much on IRC | 23:24 |
| Venemo | I now have a theoretically working solution | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | aspidites visits the forums a lot, you'll get an answer soon I guess | 23:24 |
| Venemo | and already implemented about half of it | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | goal xD | 23:25 |
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| t_s_o | shit, watching this just makes me pissed about how nokia short changed the N900: http://www.fonearena.com/blog/18831/exclusive-video-nokia-n8-operated-via-bluetooth-keyboard-and-mouse.html | 23:28 |
| flailingmonkey | it comes down to Maemo Devices team vs. Symbian team | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | Not really | 23:29 |
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| MohammadAG | the N900 supports BT mice and keyboards | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | you'll have to fix xorg.conf, which should be easy if you read the man page | 23:29 |
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| flailingmonkey | MohammadAG: in terms of N900 being short changed. not that as a reason that N900 can't do it | 23:30 |
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| flailingmonkey | but as reason it wasn't supported out of box | 23:30 |
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| t_s_o | yea, but you should not need to, as earlier maemo devices had the keyboard support going already, so the N900 was a step backwards | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | err, keyboard support is spot on | 23:30 |
| t_s_o | and then comes the N8 and basically shows off tricks that earlier maemo could have done, and that nokia didnt put into N900 | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | and BT keyboards have worked since the Nokia 6680 | 23:31 |
| MohammadAG | or 6630 actually | 23:31 |
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| MohammadAG | wow, Symbian^3 has the same crappy UI as Symbian^1 | 23:31 |
| flailingmonkey | what bt keyboard and mouse do you use MohammadAG | 23:31 |
| eitama | lol | 23:31 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia SU-8W, and a USB mouse, when USB works :) | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG | Symbian has a mouse arrow now? | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG | time to try Ubuntu again | 23:33 |
| GAN900 | t_s_o, the business division is filled with dinosaurs. | 23:34 |
| t_s_o | i wonder if with open sourcing symbian, some of the higher ups at nokia no longer see a need for maemo. And that may be one reason for its merging with moblin | 23:34 |
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| GAN900 | I just wish Maemo had been under any other company than Nokia. | 23:34 |
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| GAN900 | The higher-ups are all clearly short-sighted fools. | 23:35 |
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| MohammadAG | t_s_o, I for one won't go back to Symbian, the core OS kinda got old | 23:35 |
| GAN900 | It's amazing that Maemo has gotten to where it is despite them. | 23:35 |
| MohammadAG | even if it had the iPhone UI on it | 23:35 |
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| t_s_o | GAN900: i suspect its the same as with every other company thats been around for a while. The focus becomes short time gains to grow the stock price, rather then long term strategic goals | 23:36 |
| t_s_o | in that sense, going forward with symbian allows the most bang for the least risk | 23:36 |
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| GAN900 | Or long-term goals that are 10 years out of date. | 23:36 |
| GAN900 | A sick part of me hopes it kills them. | 23:37 |
| GAN900 | Fools. | 23:37 |
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| MohammadAG | ARGH, touchscreen still not working! | 23:38 |
| t_s_o | i dont think it will, as i see nokia doing smart moves in other markets, like how they are setting up a mobile bank of sorts | 23:38 |
| * MohammadAG nukes Stskeeps | 23:38 | |
| flailingmonkey | you have many teams, and frankly I just don't think maemo has ever been on the radar of the larger company strategy | 23:38 |
| flailingmonkey | s/you/Nokia/ | 23:39 |
| infobot | flailingmonkey meant: Nokia have many teams, and frankly I just don't think maemo has ever been on the radar of the larger company strategy | 23:39 |
| t_s_o | it may have been, when it first got fired up, as a look at how nokia could attempt to leverage open source | 23:40 |
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| flailingmonkey | MohammadAG: doesn't bt keyboard support require copying layouts from scratchbox or some such | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | not really | 23:40 |
| Venemo | good night guys&girls | 23:40 |
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| MohammadAG | would make it more exciting though | 23:41 |
| MohammadAG | Night | 23:41 |
| t_s_o | then they took what they learned for that and applied to a more known thing, symbian, and put maemo to one side as a hedged bet in case open source symbian implodes | 23:41 |
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| * MohammadAG can see why qwerty12 left | 23:41 | |
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| t_s_o | huh? | 23:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | burrp | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | isn't Qt open source? | 23:43 |
| MohammadAG | Qt itself? yeah | 23:43 |
| MohammadAG | I guess | 23:43 |
| MohammadAG | apps created with it can be commercial -> non open source | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | so probably the part zooming the button image is as well | 23:44 |
| MohammadAG | afaik that's not a Qt problem, but a hildon one | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | errr | 23:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | QPushButton doesn't sound like a hildon object | 23:46 |
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| Bashvi | what is better on n900, xchat or irrsi? | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | so the root problem is QPushButton doesn't do the resizing in a sane manner, and the hildon dependency is the hildon theme has a "too small" image or whatever, that is just 70 high | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | xchat | 23:47 |
| MohammadAG | 105, but that doesn't work | 23:47 |
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| flailingmonkey | irssi is my preference | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | it actually *has* a FILE for 105? | 23:48 |
| flailingmonkey | but I had to grab the foxmask theme, as the default theme expects black backgrounds | 23:49 |
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| MohammadAG | http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon/gtk/blobs/master/gtk/gtkwidget.c#line11041 | 23:49 |
| flailingmonkey | does anyone know how to flush the image cache for apps that gets displayed as they load? like Settings and Application Manager | 23:50 |
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| flailingmonkey | they look rather crappy at the moment, so its obvious when it is still loading | 23:51 |
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| lcuk | flailingmonkey, a mo | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | MohammadAG: HILDON_HEIGHT_THUMB is rather worthless | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | on itself | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | we need QPushButton | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | or QPushButton() | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | flailingmonkey, clear /home/user/.cache/launch/* | 23:54 |
| MohammadAG | rm /home/user/.cache/launch/* even | 23:54 |
| flailingmonkey | thanks | 23:54 |
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| flailingmonkey | when does it capture those launch previews? hopefully not while displaying the previews :p | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | lol | 23:56 |
| MohammadAG | depends on the code I guess | 23:56 |
| flailingmonkey | which would cause artifacts over time | 23:56 |
| lcuk | thats the one MohammadAG | 23:56 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, I got it from fmms_gui.py XD | 23:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | probably after all the constructors have done their job | 23:57 |
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| MohammadAG | the clock app takes it when you close it | 23:57 |
| MohammadAG | hence a slight delay | 23:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer2 | mhm | 23:58 |
| flailingmonkey | they really need to be lower compression. clock app is good example | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | so they should get refreshed each time you do a start&end cycle to the app | 23:59 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer2, they get refreshed when you change the theme or clear the directory | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer2 | o.O | 23:59 |
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