IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-06-15

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jogaSuRfDeMoN, hmm, I've never had problem doing those..00:02
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jogaSuRfDeMoN: ?00:03
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DocAvalanchealterego: guess why I don't own a symbian phone. Do we really aim at mimicking symbian?? That's not the rationale I had for getting a linux based device00:03
greenflyaren't there other GUI file managers that let you see the full system?00:04
DocAvalancheand "hiding the OS" is another meaningless statement00:04
greenflyDocAvalanche: does that not work for you?00:05
SuRfDeMoNjoga: its my first python app, I copied a .desktop file and then altered it to point at my app, it kept closing when trying to open and once froze the device but now it seems to be working, I moved app from /home/user/ to /usr/share/00:05
SuRfDeMoNjoga: I was guessing it might be the apps location upsetting things00:05
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SuRfDeMoNjoga:  thanks for the url I will have a look at that :)00:05
DocAvalanchegreenfly: you're stating the obvious and asking questions I don't even know what's the meaning of them00:05
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greenflyDocAvalanche: that app doesn't provide the functionality you want?00:06
DocAvalanchehow is that related? to anything we discuss here?00:06
greenflybecause it seems you are complaining about defaults. it's like complaining because you don't like the blue theme00:06
greenflychange it.00:06
greenflythat's the beauty of the n900, you have options00:06
DocAvalanchegreenfly: stop trolling00:06
greenflyif you don't like the default file browser, use another one00:06
greenflyI don't see why it's such a big deal00:07
DocAvalancheI never complained about *my* user experience. I suggested to flailingmonkey to have a look at as HFM is borked and braindamaged00:07
greenflyand there's nothing more "linux" than having 10 different programs that perform the same function simply because people can't agree on defaults00:07
Venemosorry, please enlighten me00:08
greenflyDocAvalanche: fair enough, I don't know the background of this whole drama00:08
Venemowhat's the problem with hfm?00:08
DocAvalanchegreenfly: so please stop playing cpt obvious00:08
greenflyDocAvalanche: sounds like you are overreacting to refer to a default not being how you like as borked and braindamaged00:09
greenflyfair enough to say you disagree with the design decision00:09
greenflybut I think you are reaching when you go too much beyond that and start to sound like all the "dealbreaker" people00:09
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DocAvalanchegreenfly: quite some people blamed me several time for I'd not be supposed to ignore anybody, as a chanop. I'm temped to ignore that rule, for you00:10
alteregoYeah, what about it is brain damaged? I think it's pretty much functional as it's supposed to be ...00:10
alteregoMaybe not compared to nautilus though :)00:11
greenflyeh, I don't mean to hassle you, I thought you wanted to talk about it00:11
greenflyI'll drop it00:11
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DocAvalanchealterego: missing extensions00:11
MohammadAG51nautilus, I want that on my N90000:12
DocAvalancheyust to strart with, and I assure you there's so much more I don't bother to count it00:12
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greenflyMohammadAG51: hmm, anyone see how well it performs with easydebian?00:12
MohammadAG51idk, haven't used easy debian much00:12
MohammadAG51I'll look for an old version that uses the old gtk00:13
MohammadAG51might build it00:13
alteregoDocAvalanche: you're talking about that "bug" where you can't differentiate between two files with the same name except file extension?00:13
greenflyI haven't tried nautilus on a 600Mhz machine since probably gnome 1.x :)00:13
DocAvalanchealterego: each decent FM has OPTIONS so user can *configure* skin to his needs00:13
DocAvalanchealterego: yes00:13
alteregoI don't really think that's a bug tbh,00:14
greenflyalterego: I get the feeling he doesn't want to talk about it00:14
alteregoSure, maybe you could have a toggle for turning extensions00:14
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alteregoBut it's hardly a major problem, imo.00:14
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DocAvalanchealterego: see the OSX filemanager. It does similar "hiding of OS", but it doesn't LOCK IN the user, as you got the chance to hit ^G and jump arbitrary location in fs tree00:15
flailingmonkeyDocAvalanche, file extensions got patched in by mece actually00:15
DocAvalancheI know that00:15
shorterwhen I just start up with no other apps running, conky shows like 20% cpu load... is this normal?00:15
DocAvalanchehe asked me if it's a good thing00:15
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jogashorter: what's taking it?00:15
flailingmonkeyits part of my mad scheme to stablely release updates to open components of Maemo 5 metapackage00:15
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shorterright now mostly hildon-desktop00:16
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shorterbut that's at 7% @ 250mhz00:16
vldcnstX-Fade: here?00:16
DocAvalanchealterego: even M$ file explorer has a config option to show full pathnames and extensions00:17
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jogashorter: seems I have about the same, idle00:17
joga(conky visible)00:17
shortermaybe I should reboot again and see what was taking so much for the first minute or so00:18
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jogaI guess it's mostly because it's showing conky00:18
alteregoDocAvalanche: this isn't a desktop, can you, using user apps, create two files that cause you to have this problem in hfm?00:18
jogaXorg is 8% atm00:18
DocAvalancheI DO NOT think we should take all these FMs as a template and example, but when you start to point at "random FOO OS does it, so it's a good thing" then please take in account all those random foo OS FM have a way to escape that fsckng scheme00:18
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vldcnst~seen sopi00:19
GAN900DocAvalanche, I'd just as soon not complain.00:19
infobotsopi <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 235d 8h 24m 6s ago, saying: 'yeah, that's the plan..'.00:19
GAN900DocAvalanche, we've seen what sort of shit Nokia churns out.00:19
flailingmonkeyDocAvalanche, cuteexplorer needs a lot of work :-(00:19
GAN900Leave them to do whatever they like and provide your own.00:19
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DocAvalanchejust HFM doesn't *and* it's hardcoded to the fileselector lib, which renders the whole Hildon braindamaged with respect to that, as every app using that fileselector widget is similarly limited and restricted and brainfucked00:20
jogaDocAvalanche: well, that does sound worse than it should00:20
alteregoDocAvalanche: but consistant :P00:20
alteregoLike I said, can you use a user app to cause this issue you have in hfm?00:21
alteregoSure, I can do it using the xterm, but how many apps actually cause this issue for a normal user, or even yourself?00:21
shorterI set a root password when i was installing something (I think rootsh) - but using 'sudo' seems to not use that password?00:22
jogashorter: sudo asks the user's password00:22
zashshorter: sudo uses your passwd00:22
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shorteroh, don't remember setting one00:23
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jogadoes it ask a password then?00:23
DocAvalanchealterego: you honestly suggest you're able to invent a whole new pragma about how to use names in a filesystem?00:23
shorterit asks, but i never set one00:23
DocAvalanchea consisten one that's better than what we got now00:23
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jogashorter: with "sudo su" for example?00:24
shortersudo su just returns00:25
DocAvalanchewhen I download a file via microB and it has the wrong file extension, e.g .pdf.part instead of .pdf, what are you going to do with your brilliant new scheme to lock in user and hide real world from him?00:25
jogashorter: and whoami tells you're user?00:25
shorteroh, it is blank i guess00:25
jogaI get a root shell with sudo su00:25
shorteryeah sudo su -> leave it blank - > returns00:26
shorterbut doesn't give me root00:26
shorteris rootsh meant to replace both?00:26
jogaI haven't set a password for the user, I recall it might not have been a good thing to do, but can't remember. I've set a root password though and use it for ssh if I need to00:26
DocAvalancheshorter: on maemo/messybox it's called 'root', not 'sudo su'00:26
jogaDocAvalanche: I usually do use root, now I just tried sudo su and got root anyway00:27
shorteralso, did you guys install bash3?00:27
DocAvalanchesu doesn't work00:27
DocAvalancheas su is just a symlink to busybox, and you can't set SUID a symlink00:27
* MohammadAG51 has it set00:28
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MohammadAG51i'm a smartass xD00:28
shorterwhat's hildon-desktop?00:28
jogaso it just starts a shell...well, anyway :)00:28
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jogashorter: the desktop00:28
jogaI think? I'm not sure what hildon-home does actually and what does -desktop do00:28
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pigeonanyone using /usr/bin/gnu/rm from coreutils-gnu on the n900?00:29
alteregoDocAvalanche: fuck yes extensions are a peice of shit DOSism00:29
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alteregoYou don't need 'em, I long for ADFS days :(00:30
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alteregoFS used in Acorn Computers' :P00:31
pigeonthere's a very weird thing going on here: touch abc; /usr/bin/gnu/rm -i abc , after saying "y", i always get "rm: cannot remove `àá\001': No such file or directory"00:31
alteregoAnyhow, .pdf.part, does that look like a pdf in the filemanager? because I thought your issue was to do with mimetypes ..00:31
alteregoHow many people use windows and have extensions off, well, most ..00:32
microlithwhich has proven to be a liability :)00:33
alteregomicrolith: indeed :)00:33
alteregoBut that, is, because of extensions in the first place.00:33
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Venemohuh, I always turn showing extensions on00:33
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jogaVenemo: heh it's something I do so often at work it's automatic :)00:34
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microlithalterego: but is there any documented means of storing the mime type of a file inside of it such that it works cross platform?00:34
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alteregomicrolith: nope :)00:34
alteregoNot without outside encapsulation again, some kind of metadata.00:35
microlithand metadata works, but only if it travels with the file00:35
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alteregoAnyhow, this convo has got a bit boring, my stance is: I don't like fileextensions, it's a stupid DOSism that should never have been created. filenames should just be names.00:36
svanheulenextentions are basically metadata...00:36
microlithhuman-readable metadata :)00:36
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Venemoalterego: well, but then how would you tell filetypes apart?00:37
svanheulenmicrolith: does that make a difference?00:37
alteregothat said, there is no getting rid of them at the moment. but I don't think on a device like the N900 or any phone right now should have a file manager that shows them.00:37
alteregoWell, that has to show them.00:37
alteregoUness maybe they're not known types :)00:38
microlithsvanheulen: in some cases, yes00:38
alteregoanyhow, I'm off bbl00:38
svanheulenmicrolith: like?00:38
microlithsvanheulen: I throw you a file, binary, with no extension. how do you determine what it is?00:38
Venemomicrolith: agreed00:39
svanheulenmicrolith: well that was kind of my point, why woud anyone say metadata was more useful then an extention00:39
jogamicrolith: with 'file' :)00:39
svanheulenyou as a user need to have some indication as to what program will be opening the file00:40
microlithjoga: suppose, for a moment, that you don't have access to file ;)00:40
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jogaI remember 4dos has file_id.diz which had the descriptions of all files in the directory, and the dir command would show them on another column00:41
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microlithI always wondered what that file meant00:41
jogait's not the same thing, really, but it could just as well show the metadata like that00:41
crashanddiefiles should be opened based on content, not extension.00:42
crashanddieextensions are a stupid invention, a clever, yes, but really useless now -- considering the speeds you get from disks00:42
svanheulencrashanddie: well yes, of course, but the user still needs to know what will open it00:42
crashanddieand that's the role of the UI, not the extension.00:43
svanheulenwell how will the ui know? should it be able to parse every known file type?00:43
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crashanddiethe file should just have a descriptive field in it. Mimetypes exist for a reason.00:44
svanheulenbut that can be manipulated just as easily as an extention so it's not like that makes it any more accurate00:45
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shorteranyone use offline dictionaries here?00:47
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shorter this page is pretty cool, but I'm not sure of the sources and I'd like to find the newest versions of these dicts00:47
svanheuleni'm not saying extentions are awesome or anything but any sort of metadata or mimetype will have the same problems00:47
jogaheh, well I did consider downloading wikipedia with evopedia00:47
shorterall of it?00:49
shorter(not that that couldn't be done)00:49
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Venemoshorter: there are wikipedia snapshots00:51
shorterforgot their size though00:52
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jogashorter: the finnish wikipedia wasn't even that big, and I think even the whole english one would fit on the device and there would be gigs left00:59
joganot sure if evopedia can handle them compressed or not00:59
Venemojoga: do you remember my question in the afternoon?01:00
Nomathe whole English Wikipedia database was 12GB in march 200901:00
Nomaand 14GB in January 201001:00
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:01
jogaVenemo: sort of, but it's not really my expertise so all I could do is read the code and google a bit :) and I need to sleep now myself01:01
Venemotrem: you too01:01
Venemojoga: okay, sorry to bother you :)01:01
joganp, good night01:01
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joga(btw, I've noticed that the eggtimer from ovi is a pretty nice snooze alarm ;)01:03
jogaputting a few minutes extra is so hard with the default alarms thingy01:03
Venemoclick on snooze01:03
Venemoor turn it upside down01:03
jogathat snoozes it?01:03
joga(who reads manuals)01:04
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jogado I turn it up again to snooze more? ;p01:04
VenemoI noticed it accidentally01:04
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Venemowhen you wanna snooze it again, just turn it around again01:05
Venemotry it :P01:05
jogawell, anyway, the eggtimer you can just click to buzz after some time, so when you're sleepy it's easier ;)01:05
joga(if I want like 4 min extra instead of 10)01:05
jogaI'll try :)01:05
Venemok01:05 5:5501:05
Venemoyou too01:06
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lovelyboyhi, could anyone tell me how i might know which meamo version am using?01:08
VenemoApp menu -> settings app -> Product version01:08
lovelyboyAbout Product?01:09
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Venemothat is it01:09
lovelyboyIt says Meamo 5 Version 3.2010.02-8.203.101:10
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lovelyboyit it the latest version?01:10
Venemothe latest is 10.2010.19-101:10
lovelyboyalright, how could i update it then?01:11
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vldcnstEither OTA or flashing the newest firmware.01:11
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lovelyboyic, i got the website of guide for flashing the firmware01:12
Venemoconnect the device to the net -> app manager -> hit update01:12
DocAvalancheif that fails then you still can use flasher01:13
vldcnstlovelyboy: read and
DocAvalancheor you say "screwit, 3h of updating via SSU - nooo, I go for flashing right away as it takes 30s"01:13
lovelyboyi will take a look01:14
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marmouteIs there any log file for the maemo's mailer ? I can't get it do TLS auth for of 587 smtp port.01:17
Venemoyou're better off with webmail, believe me01:18
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lbtJaffa: around?01:50
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vldcnstX-Fade: here?01:54
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lcukand now for something completely different02:02
lcuk    I hope to hear from you soon.02:02
lcuk    Respectfully02:02
lcuk    Mr. Lei02:02
lcuki hope you don't mind, but i printed off this mail and used a copy to wipe my arse with02:02
lcukhave a nice day02:02
lcuk(20million spam email)02:03
SpeedEvilYou should be more culturally sensitive.02:03
SpeedEvilIn some countries, that is high praise.02:04
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lcuki will gladly praise them again02:04
lcukas long as i dont run out of that soft printer paper02:04
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Macertrauma is awesome02:07
Macersome vietnam vet stole the med helo02:07
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lardmannight all02:20
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alteregoIt'd be nice if you could reorganise your windows in the dashboard view :)02:29
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Venemoalterego: agreed02:33
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alteregoI can't believe you reduce my karma for that, why?02:33
alteregocurses! to you and your mom02:34
vldcnsthey! not mummy!02:34
alteregoI've not got my laptop so I've been using the N900 all day, it's a bit annoying that all my windows are all over the place, is it too bad I want to bring order to this chaos!!!02:35
alteregoI've had like an average of twelve apps open all day :(02:35
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alteregoAnd I'm programming, using vi in x term on the friggin device :P02:36
SpeedEvilThere is already an alternate window manager.02:36
alteregoGive me a fuggin' break!!!02:36
SpeedEvilapt-get install screen02:36
vldcnstcalm down02:36
alteregoThere is no screen :P02:37
SpeedEvilI'd love a more configurable task switcher.02:37
VenemoSpeedEvil: how is that?02:37
alteregowhat repo? devel?02:37
tuliobaarsello, please help!!!!02:37
tuliobaarsmy n810 is almost dead!02:37
alteregotuliobaars: how so?02:37
vldcnstdid you prepare a grave?02:37
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tuliobaarsi've followed the installation guide for mer and it bricked my n810!02:38
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SpeedEvilOne of these -
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tuliobaarsols, i had seen that fanoush have an alternative rootfs and kernel for n810. How can i load it or installit?02:38
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SpeedEvilI diddn't think mer could be installed on 81002:39
SpeedEvilBut I know little of 81002:39
SpeedEvilThe above repos - one has screen.02:39
SpeedEvilperhaps tools02:39
alteregoMer was designed for the N810 SpeedEvil :P02:39
tuliobaarsOK, but pls, help me. I have some importamt data on n810, and it would be so bad if i lose it...02:39
SpeedEvilErr fremantle/tools/free screen 4.0.3-0.3osso4+0m502:40
tuliobaarsor even install MeeGo or Xubuntu, if possible02:40
alteregoinitially at least, before it got scrapped, then retasked as probably the name of MeeGo on N810 and N90002:40
ohwhymeso whos getting the n902:40
tuliobaarssorry, alterego?02:40
alteregoohwhyme: there is no such thing.02:41
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tuliobaarsmy n810 is rebooting and rebooting...02:41
VenemoSpeedEvil: and what does this "screen" do?02:41
SpeedEvilVenemo: It's a text-mode windowing system02:41
tuliobaarspls, i have to take a snack, in 10min i get go back, ok?02:41
alteregoohwhyme: but seriously, how do you expect anyone to comment on that, no one can make an informed decision with no information, I really don't want to commit myself to another purchase just yet tbh.02:42
ohwhymefair enough but the n8's hdmi looks pretty nice02:42
alteregoVenemo: it's like matchbox for x terminal :P02:42
ohwhymeI feel like I just got my n90002:43
SpeedEvilIt's not02:43
SpeedEvilIt supports splitscreen02:43
SpeedEvilohwhyme: Indeed.02:43
alteregoSpeedEvil: so does matchbox ... with an axe02:43
vldcnstterminal without screen = waste of time02:43
SpeedEvilohwhyme: Though I recently had to buy another 6 months of internets for her.02:43
ohwhymei cant afford internet :D02:43
SpeedEvilFortunately - tmobile here sell it really quite cheap. 20 quid for 6 months02:44
SpeedEvil(limited to 1G/mo)02:44
vldcnstSpeedEvil: average speed?02:44
ohwhymeis that pay as you go?02:44
ohwhymeid do that if i were in england02:44
SpeedEvilvldcnst: I can blow through the quota in 2h.02:45
SpeedEvilvldcnst: 150kbytes/s02:45
SpeedEvilohwhyme: yes02:46
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Venemoso this stuff gives me multiple terminals, right?02:46
vldcnstSpeedEvil: thats so cheap. I get 4gb for 12eur/month, and that without dialing features (no number), but full speed.02:46
alteregoSpeedEvil: you talking about mobile broadb\and?02:47
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SpeedEvilalterego: yes.02:49
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SpeedEvilalterego: I got a (free) SIM - topped it up with 25 pounds, spent 20 of that on 6 months internet - and still have a generous 5 pounds left over for my calls and texts this year.02:50
SpeedEvilWell - 4.23 now.02:50
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alteregoWhat's the monthly qouta on that? I need to get a decent one as I'm going to get stitched by vodafone ..02:51
DocAvalanchevldcnst: <vldcnst>~.*(\+\+|\-\-) == /kick02:51
SpeedEvilBut it's not a hard cap - and there are no overage charges.02:51
SpeedEvilIt's a 'we might slow you down if you exceed'02:51
alteregoEesh, that is what I can negotiate with them, IK need more as it's my only internet connection :/02:51
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vldcnstDocAvalanche: understood.02:52
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ohwhymeSpeedevil: nice i think i will do that in england. I havent seen any tmobile stores tho02:52
alteregoah cool.02:52
SpeedEvilThey don't have as good options if you want more than that02:52
SpeedEvilohwhyme: they do it through teh website.02:52
SpeedEvilOr there are quite a lot of shops. :)02:52
SpeedEvil - is the relevant page - click on 'internet'02:53
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ohwhymethanks man :)02:53
SpeedEvilFor obvious reasons, they seem to want to push monthly deals - which are lots more expensive. (comparatively)02:54
SpeedEvilBut may be the only option for >1G.02:54
alterego:/ oh well, I'll wait until the time comes.02:55
kakashi_Hi all, I have a small problem! I tried to install python as it was giving some errors using apt-get --fix-install, it removed a bunch of most important things, which is made it impossible to reboot02:55
kakashi_I tried using flasher-3.502:55
DocAvalanchejust to fix damage done by vldcnst02:56
kakashi_it worked the first time, but again the phone didn't boot, I am again trying it but it keeps doing Suitable USB device not found, waiting.02:56
alteregoI think I deserve more after my activities today :P02:56
ohwhymehow does the 20 pounds work? Can I pay via credit card?02:56
ohwhymecause you have to text that you want the 6 months internet02:57
Venemokakashi: you should reflash02:57
DocAvalanchekeep away from infobot karma concept! everybody!02:57
kakashi_Venemo, how?02:57
SpeedEvilkakashi_: Remove battery.02:57
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SpeedEvilkakashi_: Plug in USB02:58
SpeedEvilstart flasher - wait till it says 'waiting for suitable USB'02:58
SpeedEvilnow plug in battery02:58
SpeedEvilohwhyme: yes02:58
SpeedEvilohwhyme: credit card, or you can buy topup cards at various outlets.02:58
ohwhymedoes it work well?02:58
kakashi_SpeedEvil, done, but, should I press U while putting the battery in?02:59
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alteregokakashi_: home02:59
kakashi_alterego, home? which is that button?02:59
SpeedEvilno need03:01
SpeedEvilohwhyme: works fine03:01
kakashi_SpeedEvil, was that "no need" for me?03:01
SpeedEvilkakashi_: yes03:02
SpeedEvilkakashi_: if you do it that way, you don't need to hold u03:02
kakashi_but it still says "Suitable USB device not found, waiting."03:03
SpeedEvilWhat exactly did you do that made it not boot?03:04
kakashi_I tried to use apt-get --fix-install python-2.503:04
kakashi_instead of installing, it removed a lot of stuff03:05
kakashi_and then suddenly switched off03:05
kakashi_then I tried flashing it03:05
kakashi_it actually worked the first time03:05
DocAvalancheis your battery charged up next to full?03:05
Venemogood night guys03:06
kakashi_I am not sure about the bettery charge03:06
Venemosee you tomorrow03:06
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DocAvalanchekakashi_: do you see yellow flashing indicator when you plug in the switched off device to wallcharger?03:06
vldcnstDocAvalanche: and when exactly is that condition going to expire?03:06
DocAvalanchevldcnst: never03:07
vldcnstDocAvalanche: formal protest03:07
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kakashi_DocAvalanche, actually what happens when I connect is it keeps on giving a buzz sound and vibrates for a fraction of a second and the light blinks03:07
DocAvalancheinfobot karma wars are deprecated in this channel (actually in every channel I know of)03:07
infobotwars are deprecated in this channel (actually in every channel i know of) has neutral karma03:07
kakashi_DocAvalanche, and yes, it is the yellow flash03:08
vldcnstDocAvalanche: I understand that, and I won't be using it anymore. I don't like being conditioned like that, tho.03:08
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DocAvalanchekakashi_: let it charge until light changes to steady green03:08
DocAvalanchevldcnst: noticed03:09
vldcnstDocAvalanche: conclusion?03:09
kakashi_DocAvalanche, so after it turns green I reflash ?03:09
vldcnstDocAvalanche: informal protest!03:10
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DocAvalanchekakashi_: yes03:10
DocAvalanchevldcnst: <DocAvalanche> keep away from infobot karma concept! everybody!03:10
kakashi_DocAvalanche, but why does it keep giving a [buzz+vibrate] for a fraction of a second? any ideas?03:11
DocAvalanchethis is an arbitrary channel police. If you don't like it, complain at channel owner03:11
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kakashi_every 10 seconds I have a [buzz+vibrate] combo03:11
DocAvalanchekakashi_: that's really bad03:12
vldcnstDocAvalanche: alright. who needs karma anyway.03:12
DocAvalanchekakashi_: it will drain your battery03:12
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kakashi_but the yellow light means that it is getting charged, right?03:13
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kakashi_so is there a chance of it getting fully charged with the [buzz+vibrate] active?03:13
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DocAvalancheno, it will *drain* your batery03:16
vldcnstkakashi_: buzz + vibrate most probably means it's trying to boot into something, and from what I noticed that draws a lot of current from the battery, maybe the usb port won't supply enough power to actually charge the battery, if it's even charging in that state.03:16
konfooguys anyone have an idea what gstreamer pipeline qik is using for streaming video?03:17
DocAvalanchevldcnst: exactly03:17
vldcnstkakashi_: I suggest charging the battery in a different phone or using a different solution, and try then.03:17
tuliobaarshow can i load a rootfs and a kernel into n810 using ubuntu?03:18
DocAvalanchekakashi_: also means you *should* be able to enter flashing mode, as battery still holds enough charge to actually boot up the device03:18
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kakashi_DocAvalanche, that might have been my mistake03:18
DocAvalanchekakashi_: try holding 'u' key03:19
kakashi_I did, it doesn't work03:19
DocAvalancheprior to plugin of device to PC03:19
kakashi_did that too and the cold way (usb --phone then battery)03:20
DocAvalanchetry to press 'u' immediately *after* plugin, then03:20
DocAvalanchelike, less than 1s03:20
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DocAvalanchekakashi_: what's your PC OS?03:21
tuliobaars_hey, is there any way to load an rootfs and a kernel into a n810?03:21
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kakashi_DocAvalanche, Linux - Debian distro03:22
DocAvalanchehmm, should work flawlessly03:22
kakashi_no! the less than 1s doesn't work03:23
kakashi_does it preserve the state?03:23
DocAvalanchekakashi_: try sudo rmmod `lsmod | grep cdc_`03:23
konfoosplicing the tape to pirate games03:23
konfoodamn wrong channel03:24
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konfoocontext: zx spectrum03:24
DocAvalanchekahawhat do you mean by "preserve state"?03:24
DocAvalanchekakashi_: ^^03:24
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tuliobaars_hey, i need some help...please, my n810 is almost burning in fire...03:24
DocAvalanchecall fire brigade03:25
DocAvalancheremove battery if you still can touch the device03:25
kakashi_DocAvalanche, I mean, the [buzz + vibrate] ---> is that happening because it has preserved that mode?03:25
tuliobaars_thanks, but i guess it wouldn't help me at this time,, but thanks for the advice03:25
tuliobaars_oh, it was at least at 65C°03:26
tuliobaars_please, help ME!!!!03:27
DocAvalanchekakashi_: it's probably caused by some upstart scripts got messed up. I don't exactly get why NOLO (the bootloader) refuses to enter flashing mode though, as that should be independant of any filesystem mess that might have happened03:27
tuliobaars_i'm not sure what i have to do...please, 5minutes of your life is not gonna kill anyone!03:27
kakashi_DocAvalanche, should I try charging the battery with some other phone and try that ?03:28
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DocAvalanchekakashi_: aiui the NOLO bootloader is supposed to check for USB-cable&flasher and/or 'u' key pressed, and enter flashing mode before it decides to boot up any possibly borked system03:28
SpeedEviltuliobaars_: The problem is that most of the people active here don't have n810s03:28
SpeedEviltuliobaars_: So can't directly help03:29
SpeedEvilkakashi_: I would first try plugging into wallcharger03:29
DocAvalanchekakashi_: charging the battery might help. But *please* come back and report about success/fail after that03:29
tuliobaars_where are the people with n810's.........03:29
kakashi_SpeedEvil, I did try doing that, but then it has the same issue [buzz+vibrate]03:29
kakashi_DocAvalanche, sure I will do that03:29
DocAvalanchekakashi_: a possible explanation is your battery cell is worn out, so the voltage drops below threshold the very moment the device boots03:30
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kakashi_DocAvalanche, possible03:30
DocAvalanchethis may happen on old battery cells03:30
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SpeedEvilDocAvalanche: I somewhat question that unless kakashi has been doing very oddthings.03:30
SpeedEvilkakashi_: How old is the cell?03:30
DocAvalancheor if cell was mistreated03:30
vldcnstOr if it's a gold bl5j.03:31
SpeedEvilkakashi_: And it's a genuine nokia cell?03:31
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b-man < this thread is inspiring me to make a better email application for the N90003:32
SpeedEvil - fun. On the disconnect between hardware and software people.03:32
SpeedEvilModest is opensource03:32
SpeedEvilfix it, stick it in extras-devel as immodest03:32
b-mani was thinking of using qt with it :)03:33
DocAvalanchelol, but true03:33
kakashi_SpeedEvil, -- I am not sure If I did oddthings or not, Cell is 6 months old and it is a genuine nokia cell which came with the phone,03:34
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kakashi_DocAvalanche, well, I dropped the phone once, from my bed, but that shouldn't sustain injuries in any way03:34
b-manDocAvalanche: yeah, the current email application has a lot that could be redone03:34
tuliobaars_pls, i'm not gonna be asking and asking all the time: just tell me somebody that can help me, please03:34
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DocAvalanchekakashi_: nope, that can not cause this issue03:35
tuliobaars_with my n810 issues03:35
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DocAvalanchekakashi_: except LiIon batteries themselves are prone to damage by impact, even moderately gentle impact03:36
SpeedEvilkakashi_: Dropping it can cause issues. And yes, relatively small drops can kill it for some unlucky few03:36
vldcnsttuliobaars_: best solution for you would be to ask here:
SpeedEvilkakashi_: Do you own a voltmeter?03:36
kakashi_nope :(03:36
SpeedEvilkakashi_: My first instinct would be to take it to a nokia repair place, and say 'won't turn on'03:37
DocAvalanchekakashi_: I suggest you go to next nokia center, and ask for a fresh cell to test03:37
SpeedEvilAfter perhaps buying/borrowing a battery03:37
SpeedEvileven a clone from ebay should let you test.03:37
tuliobaars_ok thanks03:37
wiretappedmy n810's battery stopped working03:38
wiretappedwon't boot with it03:38
wiretappedother batt works fine03:38
wiretapped(ages ago)03:38
w00t_any facebrick users, new version teasers of 0.5 up at:
DocAvalanchetuliobaars_: how could anybody help without you asking anything except "my device is on fire" (which isn't exactly a question as well)03:39
kakashi_SpeedEvil, I though of doing that03:39
tuliobaars_sorry. Do you want that i ask exactly waht happened? Sorry03:40
kakashi_btw, my battery was actually getting discharged in around 8 hours time usually with wifi on (no GPRS)03:40
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tuliobaars_OK, i've tried to install mer and now i wanna reflash  it with the fanoush's rootfs and kernel. Is it possible?03:40
DocAvalanchekakashi_: broken cells may cause weird behaviour on mobile devices. So really you should try to get a fresh original cell to test in a nokia store03:40
DocAvalanchekakashi_: 8h might be normal, depending on particular situation03:41
luke-jrNokia has stores?03:42
tuliobaars_tthanks, but now i asked correctly03:42
DocAvalanchekakashi_: there's nothing wrong in asking to test if the device works with that new cell, before you actually spend money on it03:42
luke-jrDocAvalanche: except they can't sell a used battery...03:42
kakashi_DocAvalanche, okay, I will do that tomorrow, first thing in the morning03:44
DocAvalancheluke-jr: if it's a decent nokia care center, they are supposed to have a matching battery ready for use, to test. If that can't be done, I'd expect the competent staff to suggest testing kakashi_'s cell in another N90003:44
vldcnstDocAvalanche: do you know how much battery is required for the n900 to go into flash mode?03:45
DocAvalanchesomewhere I read something about >40%03:45
DocAvalanchenot sure if that's a hard limit. It depends on several parameters03:45
kakashi_well, actually my hunch is that my battery is less the ideal battery limit as of now03:46
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kakashi_btwm which phones use BL-5J?03:47
DocAvalanchethere's a few certain vltage thresholds that must be met. If for any reason battery voltage will drop below that then boot will fail, or flashing mode will fail. The cell voltage depends on several factors like cell age, temperature, charge...03:47
kakashi_other than n90003:48
DocAvalanchegood question03:48
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kakashi_but what I don't understand is why isn't N900 getting charged even when I connect it to the wall charger03:48
SpeedEvilkakashi_: Because it boots up relatively early when a voltage threshold is passed03:49
SpeedEvilkakashi_: It then - should - basically go back to sleep if the battery is too discharged03:49
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kakashi_SpeedEvil, aha! and other BL-5J compatible phones don't have this issue?03:50
asjkakashi_: leave it plugged in for a while, if the battery is too dischared it can't boot.  I'm pretty sure the n900 will try and trickle charge it for a while03:50
SpeedEvilkakashi_: yes, they may do03:50
DocAvalancheSpeedEvil: draining bat to level of no-boot and using hw-based autonomous charge *could* help03:50
SpeedEvilplugging it in for several hours culd help03:50
DocAvalancheSpeedEvil: but I won't suggest that03:50
DocAvalancheasj: please stop suggesting contraproductive stuff without knowing the whole story03:51
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asjDocAvalanche: well fuck you too :)03:52
DocAvalancheasj: kakashi_ told he's bootlooping which most certainly will *drain* the battery while hooked to charger03:52
DocAvalancheasj: :-(03:52
kakashi_uh! please don't fight for this issue!03:53
asjDocAvalanche: ah, suckage03:53
DocAvalancheasj: you got luck I'm in a lazy mood now03:53
vldcnstkakashi_: you could also connect around 4v (watch the mA tho) directly to the battery itself and charge it like that for around 30 minutes. Usually this might damage your battery, but one time *might* not do any harm to it.03:53
DocAvalanchevldcnst: he mentioned he doesn't even have Voltmeter to test for correct 4V03:54
vldcnstkakashi_: I speak from experience, I charged batteries directly many times and didn't have any problems, but still... you never know what might happen.03:54
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DocAvalancheso thanks for the helpful suggestion03:54
kakashi_vldcnst, that is a huge risk! I don't think my conscious brain will never let that happen03:54
vldcnstDocAvalanche: 3 batteries should do the trick.03:54
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DocAvalanchekakashi_: please do the nokia care center thing, or find another way to *sanely* charge your battery, like decent standalone charger, or a friend's compatible phone03:56
kakashi_btw, it is 0254 Hrs here, and I don't have an extra BL-5J compatible phone now, and I don't think it is fair to wake someone up for that, should I try discharge the battery (may be repeated power on button -- it gives a White Nokia thingy and goes down actually) or should I simple put it on charge ?03:57
SpeedEvilThere is also - for example03:57
SpeedEvilThe above shouldn't kill the battery in one charge03:57
SpeedEvilIf you're getting white nokia, that should flash03:58
DocAvalanchekakashi_: take out battery, and postpone to a more reasonable time of day03:58
SpeedEvilActually - no - there is a voltage threshold too - ignore that03:58
DocAvalanchekakashi_: then tomorrow take your N900 and separate battery to next Nokia care center03:59
kakashi_yeah! that sounds to be the safest option!04:00
DocAvalanchekakashi_: all you could do right now is potetially causing damage to either battery or even N90004:00
DocAvalancheor your health, for some of more weird suggestions above :-P04:00
kakashi_okay, thanks a lot DocAvalanche, SpeedEvil, asj, vldcnst and luke-jr for the help04:01
vldcnstNot fair. it was a valid suggestion, if he was willing to trade risk for time.04:01
kakashi_I will document about this in Maemo Forum and ofcourse bug everybody here about it tomorrow (technically today for me)04:02
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asjkakashi_: good luck04:05
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DocAvalanchevldcnst: it was a valid sugestion, but: >> <SpeedEvil> kakashi_: Do you own a voltmeter?   <kakashi_> nope :(  <vldcnst> kakashi_: you could also connect around 4v (watch the mA tho)04:26
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DocAvalanchehow's he supposed to "watch the mA" ?04:27
vldcnstDocAvalanche: and I supplemented the suggestion with: <vldcnst> DocAvalanche: 3 batteries should do the trick.04:27
asjdon't have to own a voltmeter, just a current limiting bench power supply...but most people that have a bench power supple own a voltmeter04:28
DocAvalanchestill no way to watch the mA. That setup would even scare me, as I know a battery (or 3 in series) could delive >>5A04:28
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DocAvalanchevldcnst: a somewhat valid suggestion would have been: "take your old style 4.7V@650mA Nokia charger with that barrel connector (+=inner, -=outer contact) and simply connect that to the +/- of your cell, for <30min04:30
vldcnstDocScrutinizer: 5A from one normal alkaline battery?04:30
DocAvalanchetake a A-cell and short it with a thick wire04:31
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DocAvalancheyou'll be astonished what happens04:31
vldcnstA cells are indeed powerful.04:31
asjvldcnst: for a modern cell that's only 2C, yeah I can buy it04:31
asjuntil it starts to heat up...04:31
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vldcnstand leak!04:32
asjNiMH cells are routinely run harder than that in RC cars they only have what a 10-15 min run time at full power?04:33
vldcnstDocAvalanche: I agree with how you formulated that, but still, I doubt he would even try to touch the battery connectors. Not that kind of guy, from what I smelled.04:33
* GAN900 wonders about mwkn stats04:35
DocScrutinizervldcnst: that's why I suggested he doesn't bother to do anything like that and rather visits the Nokia care center tomorrow04:37
vldcnstDocAvalanche: still, I've seen some horrible nokia abuse in my life, from original battery + wires (at the same time, in parallel) from 3xC to powering a phone from a old TV 5V transformer, and none had any issues, except lower battery life. They are pretty though.04:38
vldcnstgranted, that was with older gen phones04:39
SpeedEvilIf lipe turns up, asking about wpa_supplicant - point them at
asj3 C cells would have a very long life I would expect..i thought they were 5000ma or something in there...04:39
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vldcnstIt was also fun making charger plugs (big and small ones) from aluminium kitchen foil and plastic from cotton buds :)04:43
DocScrutinizervldcnst: agree, I've accidentally connectedsome 12V 2A stabilized power supply to my first version 6210. Comment of Nokia phone: 'Wrong Charger!"04:44
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vldcnstDocAvalanche: good old days :)04:45
DocScrutinizerwouldn't try this on a N900 though04:45
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vldcnstSpeedEvil: epso PCB printer, interesting.04:49
vldcnst(if thats your tutorial)04:50
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SpeedEvilumm - no04:51
SpeedEvilright - no - that's unrelated to me04:51
GAN900Man, that Missteps thread turned into more of a Thanks! whoring thread than I thought it would.04:55
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wiretappedcan anyone here tell me what makes a post in mauku be a different color than the rest?05:31
wiretappedit happens to be a post linking to a friend's blog entry... but it definitely isn't in my n900 history...05:33
wiretappedvery strange05:33
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doc|homeso, I got an n900 on friday (yey!) but I've noticed that the buttons at the top of the screen (when in landscape) are very finicky when you're using your fingers. Anyone else noticed this? I don't have fat fingers or anything.07:09
ham5get the newest firmware07:09
doc|homeI think I have it, one sec07:10
ham5I had one of the olderones it was like that... new one took care of it07:10
ham5have to be firm with the buttons tho :)07:10
asjcould try the screen calibration in settigs, never done that...07:10
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ham5sure that too07:10
asjoh, you mean hw buttons07:10
doc|homeunder settings -> about product I have version 10.2010.19-1.00207:11
pwnguinthat's 1.1 afaik07:11
doc|homeno, touchscreen buttons, and calibration didn't make any difference07:11
doc|homepwnguin: oh, I see07:11
ham5are your fingers fat? :)07:11
pwnguinlemme check07:11
doc|homeis there a way to do it via the update software or is it a flashing thing only?07:11
ham5flashing was really easy07:12
doc|homeham5: I already saw that question coming, see my initial question :)07:12
doc|homepwnguin: sorry, what was that "yes" to?07:12
ham5yea I saw that... thats why I asked again ;)07:12
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doc|homeham5: haha07:12
pwnguinim a victim of loudmouth disease07:12
doc|homeno, no fat fingers here07:12
pwnguini checked my phone07:12
pwnguinand i know i have pr1.207:13
doc|homeit can be very frustrating at times07:13
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ham5yea pwnguin07:13
doc|homealso, is the mail software not able to distinguish between a mail which has already been read and an unread one over imap?07:13
ham5thats the newest07:13
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ham5never messed with mail07:14
doc|homefor example, if I read an email on my laptop, and then look at my phone, even after send/receive it doesn't see that it has been read07:14
DocAvalanchec'mon 10.2010.19 is commonly known as legendary PR1.207:14
DocAvalanchedoc|home: maybe because you actually haven't read it on the phone?07:15
DocAvalanchedoc|home: dunno if there's common sense about how clients determine if a mail is 'read' or 'new' - on IMAP07:16
pwnguinimap doesn't provide read/unread?07:17
doc|homeDocAvalanche: perhaps, but my ipod touch "knows"07:17
doc|homeI don't know how07:17
DocAvalanchebut I seems to hear some rumble about IMAP on modest being crap07:17
doc|homeseems so07:17
doc|homeanyway, that's relatively minor compared to the buttons thing :/ anyone got any suggestions on that?07:18
DocAvalanchedoc|home: what your iphone 'knows' doesn't mean anybody else on earth agrees upon07:18
CutMeOwnThroathm, so the gsm-ranges of the N900 means it can be used in the US and Europe and probably pretty much everywhere else (damn... with the N810 that was no questio :)07:18
pwnguinwhich butons? the volume ones or the touch UI?07:18
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DocAvalanchedoc|home: (buttons) sorry I don't get it07:19
pwnguinCutMeOwnThroat: that wont stop US people from complaining that it doesnt support ATT or "most cell providers"07:19
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doc|homeDocAvalanche: the buttons at the top of the touchscreen UI (the back arrow or the X) seem to require very precise screen touches, too precise for fingers.07:19
doc|homesame for the menu button07:19
DocAvalanchehmm, no problems here07:20
DocAvalanchemaybe you're used to the iphone too much? :-P07:20
CutMeOwnThroatpwnguin, ah, just found those limitations on ... but I was more wondering about Germany... I wouldn't use it in the US anymore... most probably07:20
doc|homeDocAvalanche: I don't own an iphone07:20
doc|homenever have07:20
DocAvalancheooh iPod then07:21
pwnguinCutMeOwnThroat: it works on my tmobile acct, i see no reason it would fail in germany07:21
DocAvalancheall the same to me07:21
doc|homereally, I asked a reasonable question. I don't think the attitude is necessary.07:21
DocAvalanchepwnguin: actually it won't07:21
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CutMeOwnThroatthey're selling it there... but without a lot of information on what  providers it'll work with07:23
DocAvalancheCutMeOwnThroat: N900 GSM/UMTS is pretty much international worldwide standard, and will just fail on a few 3rd world countries' nonstandard networks, like in northern korea, or USA AT+T07:24
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CutMeOwnThroatDocAvalanche, ah, you meant "it won't fail" ... I kind of translated that into "it won't work there" :)07:25
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DocAvalancheCutMeOwnThroat: yup07:26
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ham5how can I restart the desktop with out reseting the phone?07:36
ham5would /etc/init.d/gdm restart on debian...07:36
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ham5not maemo-launcher :\07:41
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jogaham5: maybe killall hildon-home ?07:45
jogawhy do you want to restart it07:46
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ham5locked up could still access applications tho to run terminal07:49
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, I haven't heard anything from Quim07:55
GAN900DocScrutinizer, or anybody else who they were supposedly shipped to.07:55
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CutMeOwnThroatgood to know ... thanks08:01
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DocScrutinizer2GAN900: thanks for update08:06
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DocScrutinizer2Stskeeps: how's the volcano?08:21
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DocScrutinizer2drop a N900 when you fly over my place on your way back home ;-P08:23
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ham5giving them away?08:24
Stskeepshehe, doubt im going over germany and i dont have any, even want a second one for myself08:24
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MohammadAGRX-51Touchscreen not working in ubuntu 9.10, grr08:30
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ian_rwhere can i find the latest theme template with the pr 1.2 changes?08:33
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Surfawhat template?08:34
Surfasorry :)08:34
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ham5got aircrack in the repos but dosent come with airmon... how you supposed to collect data?08:47
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DocScrutinizerdunno if the chan6 bug is fixed yet09:02
ham5seperate deb?09:02
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ian_rmorning stskeeps. can you point me to the current example theme/template with the pr 1.2 changes?09:08
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crashanddieGAN900: go to bed09:22
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crashanddieMan, some news titles are truly disturbing...09:23
crashanddie"RIM testing new Blackberry tablet"09:23
crashanddieI mean... "Rim testing"?09:23
crashanddieIt's a tablet, they'll never rim it...09:24
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DocScrutinizer2~dict rim09:33
infobotDictionary 'rim' (4 of 13): the outer part of a wheel to which the tire is attached ;; \Rim\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Rimmed}; p. pr. & vb. n. {Rimming}.] To furnish with a rim; to border. [1913 Webster] ;; furnish with a rim; "rim a hat" ;; a projection used for strength or for attaching to another object .09:33
crashanddie~google urban dictionary rim09:34
DocScrutinizer2obviously a pun for native speakers09:34
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nextimeinteresting is the circular clockwise movement in the north emisphere and the anti-clockwise one in the southern emisphere09:37
crashanddieI'd be tempted to say "that's bollocks", but I think we've been far enough with the sex talk.09:37
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nextimecrashanddie : with bolloks you mean "nonsense"?09:38
Macerany word on maemo koffice?09:38
Maceror actual bt kb support?09:38
crashanddienextime: I did09:38
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nextimecrashanddie : ok, thanks ( i'm not native english, so, i ask confirm when i'm not sure about a word )09:39
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Macerthat's england english09:39
Macernot imperial US english :) so it doesn't count09:40
crashanddieYes, commonly referred to "English"09:40
crashanddies/to/to as/09:40
nextimeMacer : so, the "original" one :)09:40
infobotcrashanddie meant: Yes, commonly referred to as "English"09:40
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Macernextime: yes.. you know.. the country that used to have a huge empire09:41
crashanddieyour bastard mix of coloquial terms and native-inbred savagery doesn't count as anything worthy being named "English"09:41
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Macerand managed to lose it in wars and starvation protests09:41
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crashanddieNo, they gave something you may not know in the US... It's called Freedom.09:41
nextimeMacer : nah, britain wasn't an empire, it was a colonial kingdom09:42
crashanddieYou know, like... When you let someone be, and leave them in peace?09:42
nextimerome was an empire!09:42
nextimethere is a huge difference.09:42
Macernextime: the russians used to say the same thing09:42
crashanddieNot that an American would understand why you can't meddle in the affairs of others09:42
Macerlike ireland?09:43
crashanddieWhat about them?09:43
Macerand we werent given freedom. we had to kick british ass to get it09:43
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crashanddieerhm, no, you had to get help from the French to get it, you tosser09:44
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Macerhahaha... touche09:44
* Macer bows his head in shame09:44
Maceryou win :)09:44
* nextime interesting us vc british match09:44
* Macer thinks about ww209:45
crashanddieI don't get why the English-speaking world always makes fun of the French (I live in France atm).09:45
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nextimecrashanddie : what about italian vs french?09:46
crashanddiethere is an italian vs french?09:46
Macercrashanddie: well.. hitler took france too easily i suppose09:46
crashanddieI thought that was just between two specific football players, both of which have retired AFAIK09:46
nextimecrashanddie : usually franch and italians are very competitive in many things09:46
crashanddieMacer: except for the fact that the netherlands, austria, poland and belgium gave in to nazi germany before France?09:47
nextimelike food, soccer, wine...09:47
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nextime( and in my personal opinion italy win, of course! )09:47
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nextimeok, time to go to do something more productive than make stupid morning flames :P09:48
nextimeby all09:48
crashanddieMacer: The only thing that sets France apart is that France had a secondary government, which decided to use a secondary capital (in Vichy), rather than remain in the (rebellion-infested) Paris.09:48
nextimebyE ( fucking wireless keyboard that lose digits... )09:48
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crashanddieMacer: far from me the idea of "loving" or "supporting" France in any way, shape or form, but I like to be just, and most of the surrender-monkey bullshit is completely unfounded.09:50
DocScrutinizer51crashanddie: Macer meant Austria :-P09:52
mecewhat is this now? Stop these political ramblings immediately and get back to only caring about programming, hacking and talking bad about companies!09:54
infobotmece meant: what is this now? Stop these pseudopolitical ramblings immediately and get back to only caring about programming, hacking and talking bad about companies!09:54
MyMolol ^well said09:55
asjdid I miss some fun?09:55
meceanyway, damn. The Netherlands crushed Denmark. Makes mece a sad nerd.09:56
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mecevknecht, hi10:02
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DocScrutinizer51mece: to me it seems Denmark needed no Netherlands to get crushed?10:02
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meceDocScrutinizer51: indeed.10:03
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lauriCan anyone comment why QFileDialog.getOpenFileName lags horribly on N900 using PyQt410:10
lauriopening the dialog takes over 2 seconds and even while scrolling it just stops responding periodically for around 200-500ms10:10
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* Ikarus is not surprised given how slow Python in general is on the N90010:12
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marmoutelauri: opening a file in MyDocs ?10:21
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laurimarmoute: yes I think10:25
marmoutelight be the slow access time10:25
* RST38h moos at hrw et al10:28
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ham5app manager is a pito got something like synaptic?10:32
jogahas anyone used the eduroam network with the n900?10:32
jacekowskisynaptic sucks10:32
jacekowskiuse apt10:32
ham5im still goin for gui tho10:33
jogaI thought 1.2 would fix something about it but doesn't seem to work here at least10:33
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ham51.2 works10:33
jogaand I don't understand the choosing of the certificate10:33
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jogathere's None to be selected, yet certificate manager shows the one I would like to use as being valid for wlan etc10:33
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jogaI suppose I could do something with cmcli?10:34
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ham5I dont understand why you would even be having problems with certificates10:39
jogaham5, eduroam requires you to have a certificate in order to connect to it, and you also need to supply your username and password10:40
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jogaI guess the exact authentication methods have some variance since I've googled someone who has eduroam working, but I guess he's on some other campus or country10:40
lbtJaffa: pingy again...10:41
jogaI'm in the wireless connection wizard, I select WPA with EAP, then the EAP type for which I've tried TTLS and PEAP, then it asks for a certificate that I cannot choose10:41
jogaif I leave it empty it'll try to connect and if I choose PEAP I even get it to prompt for my password but it fails the authentication anyway10:41
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jogathis thread leaves the impression it should use the available certificates that have been selected for wlan use but I think it's confusing that it asks for it then and doesn't provide any choices10:42
povbotBug 6259: WLAN setup does not give the list of certificates, cannot use certificates with WLAN10:42
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jogait could be just some setting but I think I've pretty much tried all combinations that are available from the gui wizard10:43
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jogathese are supposedly the official instructions for our eduroam
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JaffaMorning, all10:49
Jaffalbt: pong10:49
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lcuk2morning Jaffa \o10:50
jogahmm... I guess this thread is more relevant for my problem
povbotBug 1635: Eduroam (EAP-TTLS+PAP) WiFi auth10:50
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JaffaNice encouraging words for Hermes:
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MOUDHey all10:52
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lcuk2morning Stskeeps \o10:53
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KhertanHi everyone !10:56
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JaffaAnyone know if it's possible to get a search in sorted by votes?10:58
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lcuk2jaffa, you can add the votes column to search results and then order the column afaik10:59
mecein PyQt, are actions in menubar connected the same way regular buttons are?10:59 seems dead as a doornail.11:00
mece"It's not just you! looks down from here. " says http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com11:00
lcuk2well, its down11:01
meceI guess the world ended when I got an app to extras..11:01
meceorr :D11:01
meceor wait. I didn't get an app to extras apparently.11:01
RST38hmece: Has your app been enumerating over all the names of Satan?11:02
lcuk2mooo! RST38h11:02
meceRST38h, yeah. Would that be a problem?11:02
mecehmm.. so I can now promote my app to extras, but I can't because is down. I guess it was a last resort sort of thing.11:03
RST38hmece: Ummm...yea, according to some it would be11:03
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Jaffalcuk2: Ta, will try that.11:03
RST38hquack, lcuk11:04
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ian_rmorning Stskeeps. can you point me to the current example theme/template?11:06
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plastunis it possible to make TouchSelector widget behavior lazy? I mean, if I have 1000 items, load and draw only items, thats fits on screen11:08
Stskeepsian_r: - latest i have11:08
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ian_rstskeeps: does that have the new keyboard and other PR1.2 stuff?11:09
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Khertanmece, are you trying to promoting fessebrick ?11:09
Stskeepsit was taken at pr1.2 sdk release, if it is not complete, let me know latest tomorrow11:09
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ian_rk, thanks. i'll check it out and get back to you.11:10
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vknechtI've built a little app for N900 using scratchbox and copied it on the phone (in tmp), but can't run it... how should I do it ?11:19
vknechtI'd prefer not to have to make a .deb for now11:20
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Termanahey hey11:24
mecemy connect does nothing! Nothing I tells you!11:25
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zaheermvknecht, is it a binary or a script (python or other)?11:26
vknechtzaheerm: a binary (Qt/C++)11:26
mecevknecht: did you build it for arm?11:26
vknechtyep, in scratchbox11:27
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mecevknecht: what happens when you run it?11:27
zaheermvknecht, were you in your armel or i386 root in scratchbox?11:27
luke-jrmece: his battery begins to leak11:27
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meceKhertan, sorry, a little afk. no, Qlister11:28
vknechtwell, when I "click" on it from the file manager, it asks me to select an app to open it with11:28
zaheermvknecht, you need to run it from the terminal or create a .desktop file for it to appear in menu11:28
luke-jrare you seriously trying to run a binary from a GUI tool? -.-11:28
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vknechtzaheerm: yes, and "file" command says it's an ARM binary11:28
vknechtmmm, ok11:28
mecevknecht: you need to move it away from MyDocs, make it executable and run it from xterm11:28
mecevknecht: so cp it to /home/user11:29
mecevknecht: do chomd +x <filename>11:29
meceand then ./<filename> to run it.11:29
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mecemake that first one /home/user/ :)11:29
* luke-jr cps mece to /dev/shm/11:30
* mece doesn't know what /dev/shm/ is, so he doesn't really care.11:30
luke-jrshared memory11:30
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luke-jrwe're all gonna look at your DNA11:30
luke-jryou must have a lot of DNA. this thing is still copying11:31
* luke-jr waits11:31
meceluke-jr, yea, I've been eating a lot of dna lately. Hooked on the stuff ;)11:31
luke-jryou can do that???11:32
meceom nom nom11:32
mecevknecht: how did it go?11:32
luke-jreck, it's already filled 1 TB :(11:32
luke-jrjust how much DNA do you have mece?11:33
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vknechtgreat, thanks, it works :-)11:33
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mecevknecht: what does it do?11:33
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vknechtit's a front-end for Mupen64Plus v1.9+ emulator11:34
vknechteven though this newer version is not really available yet on N900/Maemo AFAIK11:35
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Jaffapmo dead?11:53
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lbtJaffa: pingy11:55
alteregoI hope my latest t.m.o post is pretty even.11:55
alteregoI did say b*tch ...11:56
Jaffalbt: pongy11:59
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achipa_nettopjust checking... is is down ?12:01
achipa_nettopsomebody doesn’t like it at my ISP then :)12:02
ham5that gets asked here alot12:02
ham5I wonder why12:02
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ham5well lol I guess it is12:03
ham5was just on it like 30min ago12:03
achipa_nettop30 min ? that’s an eternity ! :D12:03
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FIQis maemo.or gdown?12:11
FIQs/ g/g /12:11
infobotFIQ meant: is down?12:11
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hajit's down for me...12:11
FIQok12:11 is up12:12
alteregoand so am I12:12
alteregoI mean awake, not erect ..12:12
Surfa..too late..12:13
achipa_nettopalterego: talk and are 2 different servers12:15
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alteregoachipa_nettop: thank you for informing me of that ....12:17
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alteregoand, erm, why were you telling me this? :P12:17
alterego(I already knew btw too :P)12:17
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DocScrutinizer2and I bet it's even much more complex, probably both a variable number of virtual servers on a farm of real iron12:19
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alteregowith that really annoying static hosting proxy in front of it from akali :P12:20
DocScrutinizer2akamei, yep12:20
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alteregothat's the ones12:21
DocScrutinizer2though I muse over "static"12:21
alteregoTo be honest, we all know has _never_ veen reliable.12:22
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alteregoI'm suprised that now, after four years it's still this way though :)12:22
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DocScrutinizer2reliably slow with weekend downtimes you can adjust your watch from them :-)12:23
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alteregoMaybe it's because of the exponential growth of the "community" and by community I mean community+leech-users :P12:23
marmoutealterego: veen12:23
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alteregookay, now that's two people that have explicitly said something to me I have no idea what they're talking about :)12:31
alteregoI think it's too early for networked interactions for me.12:31
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* alterego goes to have a shower.12:31
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ham5probly why they are going meego12:38
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ham5its all about choices12:40
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X-Fadetop - 13:15:13 up 106 days, 52 min,  2 users,  load average: 196.99, 196.69, 196.1513:15
X-FadeTells the story nicely.13:15
ham5how do you get that kind of load13:16
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X-Fadeham5: Storage blocking, lots of clients.13:16
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meceSo what is up with
X-Fademece: ^^13:20
mecethe load?13:20
meceI don't really understand what those numbers mean.13:20
X-FadeWell, netapp storage underneath the side is gone.13:20
SpeedEvilmece: It means that on aveage - 169 jobs are running13:21
meceor 196..13:22
meceis that a lot?13:22
ham5High load averages usually mean that the system is being used heavily and the response time is correspondingly slow13:22
ham5anything more then 3 is unbearible to me13:22
X-Fademece: Anything above 1 is already overloading.13:22
Surfait depends on the system anyway13:22
ham5its for the last 5, 10, and 15min of the computer13:22
petteriit depends how many cpus there are13:23
X-FadeYeah, true. 8 cores in this case.13:23
ham5 06:21:47 up 24 days,  1:02,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.0013:23
ham5my dualcore desktop13:23
* RST38h has seen 4013:23
X-FadeHehe 40 is nothing :)13:24
alteregoham5: judging by you load, why have you even got it turned on it's just wasting energy :P13:27
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mecealterego, waiting to serve, perhaps?13:28
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alteregoHe could get a one dollar hosting service for less than it costs to run that server :P13:29
alteregoif it is a server13:29
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thparghgh! down :(13:49
Venemoit isn't down13:49
infobotthp meant: arghgh! unreachable :(13:50
cibyrI keep getting "The connection was reset"13:50
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Venemowell, TMO works for me13:51
wazdHello people13:51
alteregotmo isn't :P13:51
Venemoit is part of it, isn't it?13:52
thpit's hosted on reggie's server (former ITT) afaik13:53
thpyep - try "nslookup"13:54
Venemohuh, really!13:55
VenemoI thought Nokia is paying the bills13:55
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Stskeepsit is13:55
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Venemooh, okay13:55
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thpso today we get all the tmo bashing without the productivity? ;)13:57
VenemoStskeeps: since you are the distmaster, by any chance do you know any people who are familiar with the inner workings of hildon-desktop?13:57
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frals_heh, nice load figures there from :p14:00
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alteregoVenemo: is this you get current home screen issue?14:01
Venemoyes, it is14:01
VenemoI haven't manage to solve it14:01
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VenemoI found this:14:01
alteregoWell, if you can dynamically add you widget does it add an entry into gconf?14:02
Venemoand also this:
alteregobecuase that's where widgets and positions are stored ...14:02
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Venemothe hd_home_view_move_applet function would solve this, but I don't know how to get the required parameters to call it14:03
Venemoalterego: that is only the case when the widget is loaded by a loader14:03
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alteregoIf I had my laptop I could help you but I wont have it until I go home tomorrow :/14:04
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Venemoalterego: I will be happy if you help me tomorrow :)14:04
vldcnstX-Fade: here?14:05
X-Fadevldcnst: yes14:05
vldcnstX-Fade: can I pm you?14:05
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Venemoalterego: can I take that as a promise? :P14:05
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vldcnst~seen kakashi_14:06
infobotkakashi_ <~kakashi_@nltk/kakashi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 10h 4m 12s ago, saying: 'I will document about this in Maemo Forum and ofcourse bug everybody here about it tomorrow (technically today for me)'.14:06
vldcnstI wonder what that guy did.14:06
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alteregoVenemo: sure, same time tomorrow :)14:07
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X-Fadevldcnst: You can always try :)14:08
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Venemoalterego: thank you, I'm looking forward to it! :)14:16
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Ken-YoungIs down?14:18
vldcnstKen-Young: seems so.14:19
VenemoKen: yes it is14:19
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ghostcubeehlo folks who is doing maewsynth14:21
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MOUDwhich channel in TVU that shows the world cup?14:27
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plastunhow to mandatory update button title from Dialog?14:40
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MOUDwhich channel in TVU is showing the world cup?14:55
jogawhat's tvu?14:57
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crashanddieMOUD: we don't care, go ask somewhere else14:58
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crashanddiejoga: some illegal tv-channel broadcasting thingy.14:59
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frals_hmm, wonder when i promoted fmms... should be 10 days soon!15:05
* frals_ tries to open maemo.org15:05
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MOUDcrashanddie: k k15:07
* vldcnst wonders who from logica ordered chinese and fed it to the servers15:08
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pupnikoww maemo.org15:51
pupnikstill no joy15:52
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achipashould we set it in the topic ? :)15:54
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jcrawfordhey guys is it me or is there NO WAY to share photos via SMS on the N900?15:55
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jcrawfordand damn where is Video Recording?15:55
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pupnikjcrawford: video camera works15:57
pupnikunder the camera app15:57
kakashi_SpeedEvil, ping15:57
jcrawfordpupnik, i see nothing on my device for recording video15:57
jcrawfordis there a certain app I have to install?15:57
pupnikopen the camera window15:57
kakashi_vldcnst, ping15:57
jcrawfordit's open15:58
pupnikthen click the icon 2nd from the top on the upper right, i think15:58
pupnikselect camera mode to be 'video'15:58
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jcrawfordohh sweet thanks for pointing that out15:58
jcrawford:) my bad15:58
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vldcnstkakashi_: pong16:00
jcrawfordany way to send photos via SMS?16:00
jcrawfordor is that not supported for real lol16:00
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pupnikthat isn't possible, afaik.  but you can send photos with mms16:00
pupniksearch for maemo+fmms16:01
jcrawfordi tried fmms16:01
jcrawfordalways says it is unable to retreive mms message16:01
jcrawfordwhenever someone sends me anything16:01
kakashi_vldcnst, I got a new battery, I went to the repair center today, but they didn't have the right person! anyways, to flash -- I should try with eMMC content first right?16:01
vldcnstkakashi_: no!16:01
kakashi_vldcnst, as the normal one doesn't work16:01
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kakashi_vldcnst, I tried with the PR_Combined arm16:02
kakashi_vldcnst, though I am able to flash, but it gives the same old result16:02
flailingmonkeyjcrawford, what you think of as "sending pictures with sms" is a marketing lie16:02
vldcnstkakashi_: flash rootfs then flash emmc, without rebooting (remove reboot flag from flasher), and use the latest global16:02
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flailingmonkeyjcrawford, sms has no support for such things. to "extend" it, telcos creating hideous bastard known as mms16:03
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infobotflailingmonkey meant: jcrawford, sms has no support for such things. to "extend" it, telcos created hideous bastard known as mms16:03
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jcrawfordflailingmonkey, ok so no way to send with the N900 then?  I tried fMMS but it will never download any of the messages that I receive (AT&T)16:04
flailingmonkeymaemo 5 (fremantle) does not have an mms implementation from Nokia, but fMMS is a working solution. I am also on AT&T and have it working16:05
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flailingmonkeyit doesn't quite work out of the box/install16:06
flailingmonkeybut putting in the right proxy settings has it working16:07
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flailingmonkeyI do suggest reading up on how mms works, it helps explain why its a huge pain in the ass even if its been done before16:08
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jcrawfordnot sure why i would need proxy settings i am connected via at&t internet16:10
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kakashi_vldcnst, to be thoroughly clear is this the right way -->
jcrawfordshould just download the messages that I get16:10
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kakashi_vldcnst, uh! I am confused after reading this
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vldcnstkakashi_: pastie is the correct way.16:13
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kakashi_vldcnst, okay16:13
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vldcnstkakashi_: do not manually reboot the device between flashing.16:13
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flailingmonkeythe at&t mmsc server doesn't allow connections that don't go through the proxy, is my understanding16:15
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jcrawfordflailingmonkey, any direction on where I should read about this then?16:15
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flailingmonkeythe fMMS app has a configuration for what proxy to use, so you don't have to change the proxy on the network connection yourself16:16
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flailingmonkeyfor fmms settings (at&t at the bottom) look on the wiki (i don't know if its up at the moment though)16:16
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flailingmonkeyproxyi have mine set to: port 8016:17
th3hatewhat should i flash first rootfs or emmc?16:17
th3hateon pr1.216:18
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* RST38h asks the Tentacled One to track down the bastard who invented Tracker and suck his brains out16:18
RST38hWhat an utterly useless CPU hog...16:19
flailingmonkeytracker is great. i love how it creates indecies that I don't need at all16:19
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RST38hSomebody's wrong idea of how people use their computers...16:20
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Appiahcomputers are for storing your porn16:20
pupnikRST38h: i must say it is a poor hack.  An Os should be able to tag a mp3 on file-creation16:21
flailingmonkeyit's google's fault. they didn't start the whole desktop indexing thing but they made it popular16:21
pupnikthe only stuff you need to reindex is a newly inserted micro-SD16:21
flailingmonkeythats actually a really good point16:22
flailingmonkeyit should be part of the filesystem level, not userland16:22
RST38hpupnik: Except that your OS does not create MP3s. You copy them from outside.16:22
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kakashi_vldcnst, well, I did that ---> result -- seemingly better ---> I only get the dynamic 4 dots after the Nokia-whitescreen16:22
flailingmonkeythen it would always know when a file changed, instead of polling over and over16:23
pupnikRST38h: oh i forgot about usb - ty16:23
kakashi_vldcnst, oops, sorry! Success16:23
N900evilnew meme?16:23
RST38hpupnik: Anyways, I do not want any indexing at all. Well able to use some MP3Tags tool to index and rename my own files16:23
kakashi_vldcnst, thanks a lot16:23
cure`i like tracker after sorting out what it shouldnt track, it is however nasty indeed16:23
N900evilmaemo trims?
vldcnstkakashi_: hehe, I was waiting :)16:23
kakashi_th3hate, Ideal way -- rootfs then the emmc16:23
pupnikRST38h: just disable tracker in the /etc then16:24
DassuBtw, any word on ~qwerty potrait keyboard?16:24
RST38hpupnik: oh no, it is not that easy16:25
RST38hpupnik: if you do it, the media player stops seeing music16:25
pupnikyeah i did that. media player could still launch mp3s from file manager16:26
pupnikand i used mplayer for the rest16:26
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N900evillook at symphonie in devel16:26
RST38hIs Symphonie good?16:27
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DocScrutinizer2kakashi_: wrong! you need to boot a freshly flashed new rootfs *after* you flashed eMMC16:30
LiraNunaAnyone experiencing IM connection drops?16:30
LiraNunasomeone told me it's my router but now I'm on 3.5G16:30
LiraNunadropping every 10 minutes or so16:30
kakashi_DocScrutinizer, I just did the other way round and it worked perfectly, btw -- my device was completely bricked16:31
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killefizLiraNuna: if it's a jabber connection and the server is openfire then this is a known issue with openfire which doesn't have a released fix yet because $upstream seems to be dead16:32
DocScrutinizer2kakashi_: when you flash a new eMMC, then for sure you won't see a perfectly working device unless you also flash new rootfs. New rootfs means unbooted rootfs here16:32
DocScrutinizer2kakashi_: so if you correctly do like sugested and don't reboot between eMMc and rootfs flash then you get no problems either way16:33
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flailingmonkeyyes, that was what he was told to do, after getting stuck16:33
kakashi_aha! I missed that point, yes I ididn't reboot in between the two flashes16:34
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kakashi_DocScrutinizer, my bad! sorry! that is most important16:34
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flailingmonkeyi think making sure not to reboot is very often missed16:34
DocScrutinizer2if you fail, and reboot, then a frshly flashed new rootfs can cope with a tainted eMMC, but not the other way round16:35
kakashi_exactly, and that is the reason I had to buy a new battery :(16:35
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DocScrutinizer2and that's the rationale behind flashing eMMC first, THEN rootfs16:36
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infobotflashing is, like,
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jcrawfordhrm ok i got fmms to receive mms but cannot send doh17:14
jcrawfordtimes out when i try to send something17:14
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MiXu-I had some weird issues with it too earlier. Got a new N900 and installed it -> now it works.17:16
MiXu-But I'm not suggesting you should buy a new one. Reflashing might help :D17:16
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jcrawfordohhh i think i got it to work :)17:21
jcrawfordthanks flailingmonkey17:21
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SpeedEvilkakashi_: \17:39
kakashi_SpeedEvil, uh! sorry, I was just asking some doubts while I was re-flashing, I could solve yesterday's problem, it was mostly because of the phone's battery17:40
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FIQlol, i did it17:51
FIQexceeded 100k in BE17:52
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alteregoflergh, how long is goin' to be down ... :/17:54
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spbthree days, fourteen hours and thirty-eight minutes exactly17:54
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DocScrutinizer2and 456 femtosec17:55
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DocScrutinizer2kakashi_: were you able to recharge the old battery after you fixed your problem? So you now can use it again?17:57
kakashi_DocScrutinizer, yep that is working17:57
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kakashi_DocScrutinizer, that prompts me to look for a solution, if someone has the same kind of problem17:58
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DocScrutinizer2that solution being like what?17:59
kakashi_charge the battery17:59
DocScrutinizer2hmm, yes17:59
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kakashi_its a big pain, I went to the nokia center and they didn't have the "right person" to help me out18:00
sivangwhere do you file bugs for things not officially support by nokia, e.g. extras-devel or extras?18:00
DocScrutinizer2on the bugtracker mentioned in the package18:00
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fralsthe package should have a bugtracker on<packagename>18:00
kakashi_I had to buy a new battery specifically for this purpose (ofcourse I am not complaining, the battery should come handy)18:01
sivangDocScrutinizer2: so each package has its own bugtracker? a'la garage?18:01
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fralseach package should have a reference to where bugss are to be reported18:01
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sivangoh darn, it is down :)18:03
sivangSo I can't check.18:03
sivangoh well18:03
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hrwsomeone remember who did chromium port for maemo?18:04
DocScrutinizer2check the package itself (the .deb) if you find it somewhere, aiui it should have that info as well18:04
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hrwmy irc logs said jacekowski18:06
hrwjacekowski: do you still have your chromium changes available somewhere?18:07
jacekowskii do18:07
jacekowskii have plan to make my own repository18:07
jacekowskibut it's WIP at the moment18:07
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jacekowskias i do have shitloads of other things to do18:07
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hrwjacekowski: I know one guy who works on getting chromium working for armv7 and he has some problems with it18:08
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jacekowskihrw: cortex == armv718:15
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jacekowskiX-Fade: are you there?18:16
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jacekowskiif i manage to get maemo builder configs from X-Fade i will make my own repo probably today or tomorrow18:19
jacekowskiif not it will take longer18:19
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flailingmonkeymy bet is that X-Fade's very busy at the moment18:44
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lbtX-Fade: ping.... need an OK from you18:49
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benno2question about the accelerometer: I read the file  /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord  but a standard app does not run with root privileges and I get permission denies. while as root it works. so what should a maemo app do, set the SUID root flag when installing the deb ?19:01
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lcuk2benno2, user can read the /sys branch for acclerometers19:14
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lcuk2you are doing something wrong :P19:14
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lcuk2benno2, many apps make use of the accerometer
pexiwhat is the best way to read acc in terms of ease of use and accuracy?19:16
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benno2lcuk2, but why does it fail ? I did nothing special. an app packed in a .deb and installed it in /opt/myapp/myapp19:17
lcuk2right, and specifically whats happening..19:18
lcuk2Nokia-N900:~$ whoami19:18
lcuk2Nokia-N900:~$ cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord19:18
lcuk218 918 -50419:18
benno2and when issuing cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord on the xterm it gives me permission denied, but if I do sudo gain root first then it works. it's a N900 with PR 1.219:18
benno2perhaps the update to PR 1.2 did screw up the permissions ?19:19
lcuk2sounds like someone/thing has borked up sudo for that branch..19:19
lcuk2doubt it really19:19
benno2lcuk2, you running PR 1.2 ?19:19
lcuk2errr ill say yes19:19
lcuk2but i know this has worked from day 119:20
lcuk2from before day 119:20
benno2lcuk2, the question is if I use SUID root on my bin, is that bad ? eg not allowed into ovi store etc ?19:20
lcuk2suid on your bin is wrong if you dont need it to be19:20
benno2I tried to search on the net but no postings about permission denied19:20
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lcuk2well could you explain your problem beyond "i get permission denied"19:21
jacekowskiyeah, works for me19:21
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lcuk2benno2, did this ever work on your app?19:22
benno2lcuk2, the question is that N900 is pretty standard, had PR 1.1 and got updated to PR 1.2 OTA IIRC, how can I develop an app and be sure that it will not fail on some N900.19:22
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benno2lcuk2, I did not try SUID root yet, but it was just an idea to solve the problem. I know it's not the best way but we need to understand why it works on your N900 while on on that other one not19:23
lcuk2benno2, your device sounds special, theres so many apps and games and programs using the accelerometer, and in my position i would have heard about specifics19:24
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benno2lcuk2, I understand, but that N900 to a non-geek user, he told me he did PR 1.2 update via wifi, so I was wondering what I could do to track down the problem19:25
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lcuk2benno2, start by pasteinning your /etc/sudoers19:26
benno2lcuk2, ok, just a sec19:26
lcuk2something is stopping regular user from catting that /sys branch19:26
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* lcuk2 waves @ Sampppa \o19:27
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Sampppalcuk2 hey19:28
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* N900evil takes a horrible risk.19:30
N900evilI have plugged a disk into my laptop,that if the BIOS became corrupt...19:31
tripzerodon't do that19:31
tripzerothat would be silly19:31
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xDaReaperxHi19:32 down ?19:32
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achipayeah, retired19:33
StskeepsxDaReaperx: we gave up, too many trolls19:33
xDaReaperxi just wanted to know if it was down , heck i got more info now19:34 is still up19:34
flailingmonkeyso its more like the trolls took over19:34
achipaflailingmonkey: strategic choice. If we shut it down, they would come after us19:34
b-mansometimes gets slow when there is a lot of traffic19:34
DocScrutinizer2N900evil: dd if=/dev/null of=/dev/sdX bs=256 count=119:34
SpeedEvilIt's even a legitimately owned copy of windows.19:35
DocScrutinizer2or maybe better use cfdisk19:35
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pupnikhows the weather DocScrutinizer219:35
DocScrutinizer2still easy to toggle the "bootable" bit19:35
DocScrutinizer2~weather EDDN19:36
pupnikbeautiful here in glorious hessia19:36
infobotNuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.06.15 1620 UTC; Dew Point: 55 F (13 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.03 in. Hg (1017 hPa); Relative Humidity: 60%; Sky conditions: mostly clear; Temperature: 69 F (21 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the NE (040 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 KT)19:36
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xDaReaperx~weather Bahrain19:37
infobotI can't find station code "BAHRAIN" (see or for ICAO locations codes).19:37
lcuk2benno2, did you fall down the toilet19:37
DocScrutinizer2~fail xDaReaperx19:37
infobotxDaReaperx, you Fail!19:37
b-man~weather Detroit19:38
xDaReaperxthe bot fails to fail19:38
infobotI can't find station code "DETROIT" (see or for ICAO locations codes).19:38
xDaReaperxmore fail lol19:38
lcuk2~weather ISS19:38
infobotI can't find station code "ISS" (see or for ICAO locations codes).19:38
DocScrutinizer2don't you guys ever learn?19:38
benno2lcuk2, the problem is it's on my friend's N900 and he is a noob, so he is not so fast with shell cmds, and file transfers. just a moment19:38
xDaReaperx~weather Al Manama19:38
lcuk2~weather DocScrutinizer219:38
infobotI can't find station code "AL MANAMA" (see or for ICAO locations codes).19:38
infobotI can't find station code "DOCSCRUTINIZER2" (see or for ICAO locations codes).19:38
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b-manDocScrutinizer2: apparently not lol19:38
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tgah, the /tg/ in the url ;]19:38
flailingmonkey~weather KPHL19:39
infobotPHILADELPHIA INTERNATIONAL  AIRPT, PA, United States; (KPHL) 39-52N 075-14W 18M; last updated: 2010.06.15 1554 UTC; Dew Point: 55.9 F (13.3 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.08 in. Hg (1018 hPa); Relative Humidity: 43%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 80.1 F (26.7 C); Visibility: 10 mile(s); Wind: from the NE (050 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 KT) (direction variable)19:39
lcuk2benno2, dont worry i dont expect you or your friend to be a god at linux ;) but whats happening is certainly strange and is not normal.  user can and should be able to read the /sys/ accelerometer branch (as we have shown and confirmed)19:39
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benno2lcuk2, he said he cannot access /sys in general from xterm, now he tries to copy /etc/sudoers as root to MyDocs and send it to me19:40
DocScrutinizer2err what?19:41
lcuk2scroll back up a bit19:41
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lcuk2there was a netsplit about 5 mins ago ;)19:41
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lcuk2and it was discussed then19:41
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* b-man starts translating all of the comments in liblproc's source code from Spanish to English19:41
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flailingmonkeybetter than dealing with French SQL19:42
lcuk2b-man, why translate them!  comments are for wusses, just regex them out!19:42
lcuk2its variable names that will be bigger problem19:42
b-manlcuk2: well, i'm already 2/3 done lol19:42
lcuk2but i suppose you could factor those out too19:43
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lcuk2b-man, cant be a big codebase then19:43
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b-manabout 6 c and h files19:43
b-manbut they have a lot of content19:43
valdynhow likely is it "he" just tried to *run* the file / directory instead of opening it?19:44
DocScrutinizer2lcuk2: sudo??19:44
lcuk2valdyn, who are "you" talking about?19:44
DocScrutinizer2~ $ ls -l /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord19:44
DocScrutinizer2-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         4096 Jun 15 13:12 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord19:44
valdynlcuk2: benno219:44
DocScrutinizer2that makes a lot of sense valdyn19:45
lcuk2DocScrutinizer2, sure, its owned by root, but user can still read it19:45
b-mang2g get a haircut to taim my crazy hair - c ya19:46
DocScrutinizer2lcuk2: exactly. How comes sudoers to the game?19:46
lcuk2and i might be wrong looking in sudoers \?/19:46
valdynyou are19:46
lcuk2but he mentioned adding stuff and mucking with it ;)19:46
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valdynthat could break sudo , but it couldnt break the cases where sudo does not need to be involved, like reading /sys19:47
lcuk2so what would change permissions of /sys/ branch so user cant access it..19:47
DocScrutinizer2a kernel change19:47
valdynlcuk2: some non-trivial modifications to /etc/fstab19:47
valdyn( non-trivial for19:47
lcuk2simpler options?19:47
valdyn( non-trivial for hime )19:47
flailingmonkeybasically, he might be trying to execute the file in /sys, instead to reading it with cat, etc19:47
benno2lcuk2, here is the user's sudoers file which cannot read the accelerometer:
lcuk2flailingmonkey, he said cat failed19:47
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lcuk2benno2, we are discussing you :P19:48
DocScrutinizer2lcuk2: chmod go-r */*/*/*/coord19:48
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DocScrutinizer2benno2: please get cmdline and output of      ls -l /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord19:49
valdynbenno2: you can trivially look at the permissions on that file ^^19:49
DocScrutinizer2also of    cat /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord19:49
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benno2DocScrutinizer2, as user you get permission denied when doing ls -ls /sys/class/....    unfortunately my friend with the N900 will be online only in 1h, so we can continue with the tests.19:50
benno2ls -la19:50
benno2lcuk2, did you see anything wrong in the sudoers file ?19:50
DocScrutinizer2benno2: nope19:51
lcuk2no :D19:51
flailingmonkeythats right, benno2 you don't have an N900!19:51
valdynbenno2: why would you get permission denied there?19:51
DocScrutinizer2~ $ ls -l /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord && id19:51
DocScrutinizer2-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         4096 Jun 15 13:12 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord19:51
DocScrutinizer2uid=29999(user) gid=29999(users)19:51
lcuk2valdyn, thats his question..19:52
lcuk2strange permission denied things trying to read from /sys branch19:52
nextime~ $ ls -l /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord && id19:52
nextime-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         4096 Jun 15 12:00 /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-3/3-001d/coord19:52
nextimeuid=29999(user) gid=29999(users)19:52
nextime~ $19:52
benno2valdyn, no idea, what I could try is to ask my freind to install an app that uses the accelerometer and see if it works.19:52
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, $ is a dollar sign19:52
valdynbenno2: ask him to list the directories, and not to run them19:52
valdynbenno2: unusuable /sys breaks alot more than just the accelerometer19:53
lcuk2benno2, just output the exact result of that one little ls -l /sys/... command DocScrutinizer2 asked you to do19:53
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valdyn( im not sure if his desktop would even run )19:53
flailingmonkeyguys, he can't. he has to ask his friend to do all these tests19:53
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lcuk2flailingmonkey, soon he can :P19:56
* lcuk2 vanishes anyway19:56
benno2valdyn, lcuk2: ok, as soon as he comes online I will post the stuff on pastebin19:56
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benno2flailingmonkey, I start realizing that doing maemo development this way is getting quite tiresome :) testing on scratchbox is not like testing on the real thing :)  but for those small initial apps (which already work on other Qt targets) I should succed, then at a later stage I can get an N900. :)20:01
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flailingmonkeyindeed. most people also assume you have the device in front of you20:02
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flailingmonkeyI will say that seeing your creations on your own device, and being able to use them is a lot of fun20:04
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benno2flailingmonkey, yes, but at least my porting efforts can point out some problems. for example QAudioInput seems to have 5000msec latency when recording, making it useless for interactive audio apps. I'll continune to track the issue down until I find the root of the problem. but looking at the source of QAudio* it seems like the class is incomplete (buffer sizes hardcoded), and then comes pulse audio with its alsa emulation layer.20:05
marmoute~weather CDG20:05
infobotI can't find station code "CDG" (see or for ICAO locations codes).20:05
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marmoute~weather LFPO20:07
infobotParis-Orly, France; (LFPO) 48-44N 002-24E 96M; last updated: 2010.06.15 1630 UTC; Dew Point: 53 F (12 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.09 in. Hg (1019 hPa); Relative Humidity: 59%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 68 F (20 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the NE (040 degrees) at 18 MPH (16 KT)20:07
SpeedEvil~weather EDIN20:07
infobotI can't find station code "EDIN" (see or for ICAO locations codes).20:07
flailingmonkeybenno2, double trouble. having audio work and having it work well are very different things20:07
SpeedEvil~weather EGPN20:08
infobotDundee / Riverside, United Kingdom; (EGPN) 56-27N 003-01W; last updated: 2010.06.15 1650 UTC; Dew Point: 50 F (10 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.36 in. Hg (1028 hPa); Relative Humidity: 67%; Sky conditions: mostly clear; Temperature: 60 F (16 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the E (100 degrees) at 9 MPH (8 KT)20:08
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benno2flailingmonkey, when we startet the linuxsampler project linux was not even up to the task to provide dropout free low latency audio. so we started writing testing tools and collaborating with kernel developers, they started produce patches and after 1-2 years linux was finally able to do it out of the box (preemption needs to be enabled, not all distros enable it, but at least it is there)20:11
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xDaReaperxlul wut
flailingmonkeybenno2, test cases and metrics are a great way to win over kernel devs :-)20:15
lcuk2benno2, 5000msec?20:16
benno2flailingmonkey, yes the only. if you can back up your claims then they listen. and the same is probably true for Qt devs.20:16
flailingmonkeyyes, especially when it comes to audio. the usual response is that its a broken configuration, yadda yadda20:17
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flailingmonkeyoo, is back up20:17
benno2lcuk2, yes, seems incredible but it is so. just opening QAudioInput  f=44100 mono, 16bit bufsize=2048 bytes and it says real bufsize around 8000-9000 , chans=2 and if you speak into the mic the data appears a few secs later in the QAudioInput class20:17
xDaReaperxyeah is back20:18
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lcuk2yeah it is incredible, i have something using a bodgered arecord and its pretty spritely20:18
xDaReaperxjust that it loads so slow20:19
benno2lcuk2, I can write a qt test app, but cannot guarantee when it will be done, we are contemplating to try out the gstreamer interface for audio input.  the strange thing is that QAudioOutput works, the latency is decent (probably 100-200msec)20:19
flailingmonkeybut some parts of the site are broken20:19
flailingmonkeyscreen shorts, many images20:19
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lcuk2benno2, is 0.2 second decent? :$20:20
lcuk2i know in the past on mplayer classic on my windows box i have to fiddle with latency for some movies20:20
benno2lcuk2, ok , not terrible.  decent = 50 msec,  excellent 5msec20:21
lcuk2godlike -2msec ;)20:21
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lbtOpen Letter/Proposal to allow Maemo on the MeeGo Community OBS :
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benno2lcuk2, given that a DAC introduces 2msec delay too, and sound travels 1meter in 3msec, the difference is not big. therefore around 5msec is a good tradeoff providing "instant" response and not too high cpu usage20:22
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lcuk2just hearing 5 seconds of lag sounds wrong20:23
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SpeedEvilWhere are you getting 'a DAC introduces' from?20:23
flailingmonkeythe only apps that record sound developed by Nokia are closed so we don't have examples20:24
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lcuk2huh flailingmonkey ?  arecord works20:25
lcuk2and the soundboard pulse(?) is accessible20:26
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* RST38h reads the drama in bug #1035320:26
povbotBug result of USSD query should not be shown to user at all (If he wishes that)20:26
flailingmonkeyneither are Qt apps :P20:28
flailingmonkeynor GTK apps*20:28
benno2SpeedEvil, read the data sheet of a DAC (digital analog converter), they are not latency free. since they contain capacitors etc. so 1-2msec is added20:29
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SpeedEvilbenno2: Nope20:29
SpeedEvilbenno2: The latency is at most half a sample typically20:29
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SpeedEvilIt has to be - there is no analog storage.20:29
SpeedEvil(other than parasitic capacitances)20:29
SpeedEvil Hmm.20:30
SpeedEvilIs that showing up with no CSS for anyone else?20:30
SpeedEvil(which coincidentally vastly improves the rendering)20:30
benno2SpeedEvil, are we talking about an audio (eg 16/24bit  48kHz) DAC ?20:30
RST38hdunno, seems to have css20:30
fluxno css for me20:30
SpeedEvilbenno2: yes20:30
Stskeepsbenno2: odd question, did you ever do any L4 related stuff? :P20:30
SpeedEvilbenno2: For it to have 2ms delay - it would need to internally store 88 samples. It has nowhere to do this.20:31
* MohammadAG51 slaps Stskeeps with a "why doesn't my ts work in Ubuntu"20:31
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StskeepsMohammadAG51: dunno, you figure it out20:31
StskeepsMohammadAG51: chances are you forgot to load the module20:31
MohammadAG51there's a ts module?20:31
MohammadAG51I installed the libraries20:32
MohammadAG51tslib, ts binaries20:32
Stskeepswhat ubuntu version?20:32
benno2Stskeeps, no L4 here, no need for microkernels when vanilla linux solves most real time related problems. I did some stuff with RTLinux , generating pulses for a servo motor, but the jitter is too big a few dozen usecs cause the motor to vibrate and reduces it's life20:32
Stskeepsbenno2: ah, wrong benno then20:32
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flailingmonkeybug warrrrsss20:34
benno2lcuk2, of course 5 secs is wrong. Nokia did not do their homework when writing QAudio* on maemo, they want to push it as the only api to use in order to port mobile apps to any platform (symbian,maemo,meego) but publish incomplete,buggy stuff. yet maemo is capable of low latency, otherwise voip apps like skype would not work. and exactly things like those turn off prospective devs and make them look around for other platforms, like the iphone. I'm not an iphon20:35
benno2e fan nor do I plan to develop for. but looking at the apps every stupid developer can achieve fast audio response for both input and output, eg musical instrument apps, vocoders etc.20:35
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RST38hlinux solves realtime problems?20:36
RST38hhow come then, we have to wait for seconds, while "vanilla linux" is s20:36
RST38hïïµï½ÿ ï½ï°ï·ï²ï°ï»ï¸ ï² ïµïµ ÿïµÿÿÿ - ÿÿÿ20:36
RST38hïï¾ï¨ï¸ï»ï° ïµïµ ï´ï°ï²ï½ï¾ ï¿ï¾ÿïµÿ20:36
Mouseyline noise!20:36
SpeedEvilbenno2: subm20:36
SpeedEvilit a bug20:36
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RST38hHow come then we have to wait for seconds while "vanilla linux" is accessing mmc?20:36
SpeedEvilWe have lutefisk linux?20:37
flailingmonkeyThe matrix is bleeding in20:37
MohammadAG51Stskeeps, doesn't another OS use the same kernel -> same modules?20:37
benno2I am not giving up because I think Qt on mobile phone is the future, write once run (almost) everywhere. but Nokia needs to provide some quality assurance so that things works out of the box. if they have problems with audio stuff they can ask for advices ( people,  linux-audio-dev list, us from the linuxsampler project, jackd team etc)20:38
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RST38hbenno2 <--- is really new to this thing, apparently20:38
StskeepsMohammadAG51: go look for tsc2005.ko ..20:38
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benno2RST38h, that depends on the driver, normwally with a preemtive kernel you get quite low latency , single digit msec response20:38
MohammadAG51Stskeeps, it's in /lib/modules..., I know where modules are20:39
StskeepsMohammadAG51: well, you need to load that then20:39
benno2RST38h, if you need more (50-100usec, then you have to go RTLinux,RTAI etc). but for desktop apps single msec response times are ok20:39
StskeepsMohammadAG51: also, you probably need to look at how meego xorg.conf looks20:39
StskeepsMohammadAG51: on meego n90020:39
MohammadAG51Stskeeps, lol it uses the same kernel, shouldn't it get loaded by default?20:39
MohammadAG51I used the Mer one20:39
MohammadAG51from gitorious20:39
StskeepsMohammadAG51: no, live isn't fair20:39
benno2RST38h, sometimes some hardware drivers are buggy and hold a software lock for long time, blocking the system. it's not linux' fault. there is even a tool, latencytop which shows you where the problem might be, in what code section20:40
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RST38hLinux is not even soft-realtime20:41
RST38hAnd you are talking about hard-realtime20:41
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benno2SpeedEvil, don't worry I will submit the bug and will not shut up until QAudio* works correctly on all platforms. I think developers don't deserve using a different audio API on each platform when Qt can do everything for them. and maemo is quite a big mess, many audio APIs in parallel, which IMHO are a distraction and complicate things. it might ease the porting of some apps though, but who nowadays wants to use the esound api ?20:43
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* RST38h sighs20:45
benno2RST38h, I never used the word hard real time. and the definition of soft real time is that you are not guaranteed to get x usec response times. it might work on 99.9% of cases but there might be outliers. so technically each OS is soft real time, it's just a matter of the average response time.20:45
RST38hPoor benno2, he has his fight ahead of him20:45
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RST38hmoo, zap20:45
fluxhm, does Phonon provide the ability to stream data from your sound generating function?20:45
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benno2RST38h, don't worry.  :) if every problem was solved too easily life would be boring20:46
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RST38hbenno2: I doubt your "problem" will be solved20:46
RST38h"Not a blocker. Not critical. WONTFIX."20:47
benno2RST38h, you mean QAudio* ?  we will see20:47
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fluxhmph, it seems hacky. you would need to subclass QIODevice and generate avi, mp3 or mpg from it?!20:53
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benno2flux, last time I checked phonon was not able to do it, which is sad becaue it would be useful some times. sometimes like QAudio* where you can define your own QIODevice and do the stuff in the read,write calls20:55
fluxbenno2, well, pulseaudio has it beat in that, then :)20:55
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fluxbtw, pulseaudios easy api is indeed quite easy20:58
fluxthe 'real' api, on the other hand, not so. not to mention it's basically undocumented.20:58
benno2flux, if nokia used jackd on the N900 instead of pulse audio we would get stable 5msec audio latency from any app. and with a very easy to use API. there is simply no more performant system than jackd. it was developed by expert members of the linux audio community which too are authors of audio apps which require low latencies like ardour,linuxsampler and others.  So sad that Nokia did not do their homework and are continuing to use the same stuff in Meego20:59
fluxbenno2, but does jack have all the stuff pulseaudio has, especially from the volume level controlling side?21:00
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fluxthe additional daemons could be built, of course21:00
fluxjack would indeed be quite nice21:00
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benno2flux, jack provides an API to control any aspect of the routing between sources and sinks and you can write helpers, virtual mixers etc. so the scenario of jackd on maemo would be jackd as the base and a mixer jack daemon which routes the various channels, mixes applies volume, DSP stuff etc.21:01
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fluxdoes meego use pulseaudio as well?21:03
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benno2and jack gives you fine grained control over latency etc. a client on jack exactly knows what the real latency will be, etc. pulse just lies, resamples on the fly, uses intermediary buffers, adjust buffer sizes to odd sizes etc.21:03
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benno2flux,   , click on the picture and you will see pulse audio21:04
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fluxwell, I can see why they would like to stay with it. perhaps the.. devil you know is better than the devil you don't?-)21:05
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xDaReaperxhey is there any free word , excel document opening software for N900 ?21:07
xDaReaperxi searched the web but couldnt find21:07
flailingmonkeyat least with meego, we could try an experiment to replace pulse with jack? maemo isn't going to work just because the closed apps depend on pulse21:07
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fralsxDaReaperx: koffice i think from repos?21:08
xDaReaperxwhich repository , ? the devel or extras21:08
flailingmonkeybenno2, you could probably try putting jack on a meego netbook, as a very first step21:09
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benno2flux, yes of course. but OTOH I am disappinted that such a big company like Nokia cannot work in a more organized way before taking important decisions like multimedia architecture. I can understand a joesixpack 2-man company but but not Nokia. it's embassing and yet they are helplessly watching like their smartphone share shrinks by the day. but I hope they do their homework in future, since with Qt etc, the platforms they have are really open and flexible.21:10
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benno2flailingmonkey, it will probably work out of the box if jackd can access the raw ALSA device. meego is just a linux distro. but what counts is what audio api they ship with. we cannot tell mego users to kill pulse audio on their phones and install jackd :)21:11
fralsstart a discussion in #meego, i heard its an open project ;-)21:12
* frals slaps MohammadAG51 around a bit with a large trout21:12
MohammadAG51it's as closed as fMMS is21:12
fralsbusted, doh! :<21:12
flailingmonkeyopen code, closed decisions?21:12
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MohammadAG51frals fMMS worked :D21:13
Stskeepsmoo frals21:13
MohammadAG51idk how21:13
fralsoom Stskeeps21:13
fralsMohammadAG51: :D21:13
fralsStskeeps: arriving in HEL tomorrow?21:14
* frals currently feel like a goldfish wrt to memory/attention span21:15
MohammadAG51Helsenki smartass :P21:15
lcuk2frals, automatic MMS sending every 5 seconds from camera to yourself21:15
lcuk2then when you feel lost just take a look21:15
MohammadAG51with an I, never noticed that21:16
MohammadAG51frals, you're Finnish?21:16
Stskeepsfrals: i'm here by now but really tired21:16
jaskai think hes a swede, even if his surname sounds finnish21:16
fralslcuk2: will set it up when i get my new sim... mms costs me 0.69€ + 3€ per MB on my swedish plan here :p21:16
fralsMohammadAG51: negative, swedish21:16
fralsStskeeps: :)21:16
lcuk2frals, 10 seconds then? :D21:16
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lcuk2are swedes known for their trout?21:17
Sceltfrals: can you drink a basket of 24 bottles of beer without puking or passing out?21:17
fralswhats the timelimit? ;)21:18
Sceltwell, in a day is enough21:18
lcuk2i see what you did there!21:18
jaskaday, lol21:18
fralswe have this thing called 'backhävf' where you do that... but its between 2 persons and in like an hour21:18
jaskadrink a case without peeing!21:18
Sampppafrals: then you will get bakis :D21:19
Sceltfrals: okay, we have kossu (38 % booze) for that. don't have to drink so much21:19
fralsSampppa: :D21:19
fralslcuk2: we are known for avoiding questions! ;)21:19
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DocScrutinizer2heh council, now you talk! :-D21:19
fralsScelt: its a student contest typethingy ;-)21:19
Sceltfrals: I can imagine that21:20
fralsSampppa: what have you done to valerio btw? :D21:20
Sampppawhat do you mean? :D21:20
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Sceltjaska: drinking 12 bottles in an hour and half is not nice anymore. it's more like driking as there's no tomorrow instead of enjoying21:21
fralsSampppa: where is he? :D21:21
Sampppafrals: i heard that there is some football tournament going on....21:21
fralsbah, soccerr is for girls and britts21:21
Sampppaand portuguese...21:21
Sceltno one calls it soccer21:22
Sampppaice hockey is our game21:22
Sceltit's football21:22
jaskawatching grass grow is more entertaining than football21:22
flailingmonkeyexcept us americahns :P21:22
SceltI bet you guys don't like any sports ;D21:22
lcuk2course we do21:22
lcuk2office chair olympics rule21:23
MohammadAG51coding doesn't count as a sport21:23
fralsSampppa: yeah, ice hockey is one of few sports worth watching on tv ;)21:23
flailingmonkeyOlympic Compiling21:23
Sampppafrals specially when swe vs fin ... :D21:23
MohammadAG51My i5 wins!21:23
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fralsSampppa: ^^21:24
lcuk2i hear in .fi the sauna world championchips are coming up/just been21:24
DocScrutinizer2lbt: just an URL to meego/mailman would have been nice, for all the maemo-devel readers21:24
Sceltlcuk2: Finnish tv made a filter to filter out that noise21:24
lcuk2tho, like baseball and american football, its a sport won only by the founding country21:24
Sampppaluck2: but thats not nice to watch....well maybe the ladies serie... :)21:25
lcuk2i wouldnt know Sampppa lol do they have a ladies version :D21:25
lcuk2i hear the guys go in >110deg21:25
Sampppai think they are not in the same21:25
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Sampppalet me check21:25
flailingmonkeySampppa, the women who would win that... aren't the ones you want to watch on tv :P21:25
Sampppamaybe :D21:26
Sceltlcuk2: I recall it's 100 celsius21:26
Sampppabut there are own series for ladies.... and the world championships are in august it seems21:26
Sampppai could watch that21:28
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lcuk2wow - this woman is the youngest competitor, only 18 years old
DocScrutinizer2Stskeeps: maybe you could answer to the "Open Letter/Proposal to allow Maemo on the MeeGo Community OBS" mail on maemo-devel *only*, to deliver the easy access URLs to meego ML for maemo readers21:29
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Sampppalcuk2: lol :D21:29
lcuk2how hot do you have sanua Sampppa21:30
lcuk2sauna even21:30
Sampppabetween 70-9021:30
* frals thinks Sampppa needs to take Silja Line to Stockholm more often to see some real girls21:30
Sampppadepens ont he sauna21:30
lcuk2and do you turn it up as you leave to wind up others :D21:30
Sampppafrals: its dangerous because if you take silja line you are not in a condition to go see girls anymore when you get to sthlm21:31
fralsSampppa: :D21:31
jaskabesides, last time i went to sthlm a seagull bombed my pants21:32
jaskaand i started swearing in finnish21:32
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lcuk2jaska, did you get deported21:33
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jaskalcuk, no. why would i?21:33
lcuk2for swearing in a foreign language21:34
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Sampppafrals: i prefer Tallinn, hot girls also but cheaper alcohol :)21:34
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jaskaim fairly sure they hear plenty of finnish swearing around there.21:34
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fralsSampppa: cant compare swedish girls with those from the baltics ;-)21:35
Sampppafrals: you forget that i lived by the border :)21:35
fralswell, to be honest, the 'girls' up north arent considered real girls ;-)21:36
Stskeepsyou mean reindeer?21:36
flailingmonkeybenno2, in extras-devel, someone packaged jackd 0.11821:36
Sampppafrals: so much better than in the south :)21:36
lcuk2lol Stskeeps was just typing same :D21:36
lcuk2whos playing in the world cup tonight21:37
fralsSampppa: you gone mad from the climate up north, ;)21:37
Sampppafrals: or here in south...21:38
Sampppalcuk2: that you have to ask from vdvsx :)21:38
fralsfunny thing about finland, they are about 5 years behind sweden in terms of 'fashion' and stuff :D21:38
Sampppafrals: im not gonna have this conversation over irc :D21:39
Surfaquite unrealistic picture you have of finns21:39
ManoftheSea"up north"?21:39
ManoftheSeaOh, you're all in Europe.21:39
fralsSampppa: :D21:39
SampppaManoftheSea up north means something near by the arctic circle:)21:40
fralsup north means where you see aurora borealis ;)21:40
Sceltfrals: fashion? don't you tell me about fashion21:40
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fralsi just see a lot of people here on the streets dressed the way ppl in stockholm dressed 5 years ago.. not that i care, i dress the same as i always have :p21:41
Sceltfrals: last fashion thing I heard from sweden was "man purse" which was actually identical to woman makeup purse but for men. Wtf I must say21:41
frals'man bag' aka 'fag bag', no offence to anyone :)21:42
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Sampppaaka. swedish bag21:42
Sceltyeah, ugh21:42
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SceltSampppa: :D:D21:42
fralsvittu Sampppa!21:42
SceltAlla svenska pojkar är hom21:43
* frals just exhausted his finnish21:43
ManoftheSeaMy manbag holds my reproductive materials.21:43
Sampppafrals: you started this? :D21:43
Surfa"jag heter homo peter"?21:43
fralsSampppa: :D21:43
SceltHej jag heter, hetero peter21:43
Surfaok, let's quit this bs :)21:43
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flailingmonkeywas just about to say, time for y'all to move over to #dick-waving21:44
MohammadAG51lcuk2, what was the world cup channel again? :P21:44
fralsbtw err finns... appearently having a laundry room in the building isnt so common here.. do you all have a washing machine in your apartment or wtf do you do? :D21:45
Surfafrals, indeed21:45
fralsyes, this is no longer #maemo, this is now #helpfralsrelocatetofinland21:45
Surfawe're so rich21:45
Sceltfrals: are you in Finland now mister?21:45
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Surfafrals, some people call washing machine as "wife"21:46
Sampppafrals we buy new clothes21:46
fralslol Sampppa21:46
Sceltfrals: but anyway, we do have laundry rooms but also have washing machines very often21:46
Sampppait depens if you have space in your apartment for that21:46
Sceltfrals: MISTER. what ya doing in Finland?21:46
fralsbecause like out of 5 apartments ive looked at only 1 had laundry room in the building and like the others had to hav the washing machine in the kitchen21:46
fralsand there was like 0 room to hang anything to dry :D21:47
fralsScelt: working ;)21:47
Surfatypically people have own washing machines, but laumdry rooms exist in almost every building or group of buidings21:47
Sceltfrals: in Helsinki? for how long?21:47
flailingmonkeydrying racks are common21:47
fralsSampppa speaks the truth :(21:47
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Sceltfrals: where in Helsinki you live?21:48
fralsa hotel in ruoholahti21:48
flailingmonkeyyou can have a big place, or a place in Helsinki :-P21:48
Samppparich swede, living in a hotel :D21:49
Sampppano need for apartment :)21:49
fralsSampppa: :D21:49
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frals(i love how the signs are in swedish)21:50
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flailingmonkeyonly when working with maemo do I get to meet other finns :)21:50
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Saviqhi everyone, can anyone please tell me where can I get automake-1.11 packaged?21:51
fralsw00t_: i commented on the MR finally (incase you missed it)21:51
dizzeydoes anyone know how to run cupsd in easydebian without it bitching about missing modules.dep21:51
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ManoftheSeaI thought all the cool software came from finns21:51
Sceltit does21:51
flailingmonkeywhat else would they do during the winters :p warmed by the glow of their LCDs21:52
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dizzeywell arent they speending the whole winter in the sauna21:52
dizzeywith beer21:52
Sampppaand when cooling, write a couple of lines of code21:53
Sampppathats true21:53
dizzeybut i guess that would give them good coding ideas for summer21:53
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w00t_frals: saw, ta :)21:55
w00t_relax time now after work? :)21:55
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flailingmonkeyyes, by combining sauna and beer, they remain in the "Ballmer Peak":
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flailingmonkeyinfobot, Ballmer Peak is
* infobot throws chairs and screams at Peak is
fralsw00t_: hehe, yeah, not that im working much but unwinding at hotel -> videocall home -> pass out and wake up in 12hrs :D21:56
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w00t_got a computer yet? :P21:56
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fralsheh, got a temp one ;P21:57
Sampppafrals lunch tomorrow?21:57
fralsSampppa: sure21:57
Sampppaare you close to vdvsx21:57
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fralsSampppa: im in the room next to him when hes not on the wrong floor.. tell him to pick me up :D21:58
Sampppaokey :)21:58
flailingmonkeywhy do people21:59
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flailingmonkeywrite code that is never used? poor design!21:59
lcuk2why do birds21:59
lcuk2suddenly appear21:59
* flailingmonkey unit tests and javadocs more java... rapidly losing his mind22:00
lcuk2eep i appear to have overloaded the family network22:00
lcuk2im getting tech support calls and shouts from random places ;)22:00
* lcuk2 stops debugging per pixel data over wifi22:00
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lcuk2World Cup 2010! Today: New Zealand 1 - 1 Slovakia (FT), Ivory Coast 0 - 0 Portugal (FT) and Brazil 0 - 0 North Korea (in progress)22:02
flailingmonkeythe infobot needs to report world cup scores :P22:03
Rabidusis this channel also football related?22:04
fralsno, just the britts22:04
Stskeepsbacon related, at least22:05
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flailingmonkeywho here is on an american continent?22:05
Rabiduswhat do you mean22:05
* flailingmonkey peers out from Philadelphia22:06
flailingmonkeythat means North/South America22:06
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lcuk2Stskeeps, mm?22:06
Stskeepsbacon bacon22:06
* lcuk2 searches for bacon 22:06
infoboti guess bacon is a filling substance which will make you even fatter than you already are... Take my advice, bacon is a food for the gods or for underweight models such as that McBeal chick...22:07
lcuk2bacon doesnt make you fat.  i once ate nothing but bacon for a whole week and lost weight22:07
lcuk2its the damned bread :P22:07
flailingmonkeymeat make you stronggg22:08
* pupnik has spinach22:08
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RST38hvegetarian spinach bacon22:15
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MOUDHey all22:25
MohammadAG51who's watching E3, it looks epic22:26
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AppiahMohammadAG51: it always does :)22:28
pupnikwhat MohammadAG51 is e322:28
Appiahbut a new golden eye and a new zelda ooooh do want22:28
flailingmonkeynew xbox 360 makes me cry, i just bought one a couple weeks back22:29
GAN900MohammadAG51, what in particular?22:29
* GAN900 was going to get a new Xbox but got a PS3 instead.22:29
MohammadAG51Playstation move and 3D22:29
GAN900MohammadAG51, ah.22:29
MohammadAG51Cool :D22:29
Appiahflailingmonkey: :D22:29
GAN900Yeah, 3D TVs for under $2000 is kinda scary.22:30
MohammadAG51I'll get a 22" 3D display22:30
MohammadAG51should be relativly cheap22:30
GAN900I might shoot for a computer monitor next year22:30
GAN9003D is where it's at.22:30
MohammadAG51i'm looking forward to it22:31
GAN900me too22:31
GAN900Although 3D movies still knock me out.22:31
MohammadAG51never watched a 3D movie, yet22:31
GAN900Something to see22:32
GAN900Avatar was really cool in 3D.22:32
MohammadAG51didn't the story suck?22:32
MohammadAG51which really put me off22:32
Surfagreat tech demo22:32
GAN900It was clichéd22:32
Surfaas a movie below average22:32
GAN900But looked amazing22:32
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GAN900and reasonably charming.22:32
flailingmonkeyAvatar was pocahontas, basically22:33
GAN900It was Fern Gully meets Surogates22:33
flailingmonkeyGAN900: an even better comparison22:33
GAN900Avatar is the first CG movie I've seen where I really didn't notice it was CG22:33
MohammadAG51Tiger woods with the move, might get me into golf22:34
GAN900I want 3D Halo, though.22:34
MohammadAG51Killzone 3 is in 3D, i think22:34
MohammadAG51Killzone 2 was epic in "2D"22:35
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flailingmonkeythe unique thing about Avatar was the facial mapping of the CG, capturing more of the actors acting22:36
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TomaszDdoes anyone know what the hell is going on here ?22:37
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StskeepsTomaszD: what's your package name called?22:40
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StskeepsTomaszD: i'd ask the guy to give you his sources.list22:40
lcuk2flailingmonkey, avatar had excellent fx22:40
Meceomg what a goal!22:41
Meceanyway, hi maemites!22:41
TomaszDStskeeps: how is that going to help?22:41
StskeepsTomaszD: to help diagnose? :P22:42
Mecelcuk2, for reals22:42
TomaszDStskeeps: hmm :P22:42
Mecehey anyone checked how often the pelota widget polls for events?22:43
RST38hPowerVR works!22:43
Stskeepson what device?22:43
MeceRST38h, who knew?22:43
lcuk2RST38h, now figure out a use for it :p22:44
flailingmonkeyyou much mean, on n810?22:44
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lbtDocScrutinizer2: an url?22:44
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RST38hlcuk: Oh it has never been a problem22:47
RST38hStskeeps: N900 for now22:48
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Stskeepsah, no fun then22:48
* ptl was playing descent on his N900... Became dizzy22:48
RST38hStskeeps: you want it on n810 or what?22:49
flailingmonkeyRST38h, I am missing something, what was accomplished?22:50
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xDaReaperxhi guys , where is the % key on the N900 ?22:51
xDaReaperxi can see it on the onscreen keyboard but on the the qwerty slider keyboard22:51
MohammadAG51GAN900, epic choice you made (PS3)22:52
lcuk2Stskeeps, whats fun then :P22:52
MohammadAG51watch E3 when you get on your PC22:52
flailingmonkeyin order to put in %, press blue, then ctrl, then pick your desired symbol22:53
xDaReaperxoh ok22:53
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MohammadAG51Portal 2 on the ps3!23:25
lcukomg yeah that was yesterday23:25
lcukill have to dust off my CC and pc23:25
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MohammadAG51no, it's live :P23:26
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lcukwait, what23:26
MohammadAG51portal 2 demo23:27
MohammadAG51check E3 live23:27
MohammadAG51wow, looks cool, epic soundtrack23:27
lcuksure it does, portal kicked ass23:27
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lcuki know23:28
flailingmonkeyhey, they said it wasn't coming to PS3 before, so still great news23:29
* MohammadAG51 goes out and punches a random stranger23:29
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e-yesG'evening! guyz, "udevadm monitor --kernel" gives nothing in output, could anyone help check it with maemo omap-1 kernel?23:59

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