| shorter | how about the codec, DocScrutinizer? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| shorter | hmm, I thought this had no compass functionality, maep thinks it knows which way I'm turning | 00:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | It doesn't | 00:02 |
| SpeedEvil | it's assuming you're moving forward | 00:02 |
| lcuk | shorter, every gps knows to a rough approximation based on gps history | 00:02 |
| lcuk | but its fine grained for just standing still | 00:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Assuming you're moving forward | 00:03 |
| SpeedEvil | This generally fails if you are moving under 1mph or so | 00:03 |
| lcuk | its not ^ | 00:03 |
| shorter | ah, indeed | 00:03 |
| shorter | so it only knows change in location | 00:03 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 00:03 |
| shorter | lol, I was turning around in my chair and it was changing | 00:03 |
| shorter | "omg it werks" | 00:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | It probably also works if you sit still :) | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | (it changes) | 00:04 |
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| shorter | you know where I can get more codecs SpeedEvil? | 00:05 |
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| shorter | [ffac3] afm: ffmpeg - is what the video uses on my linux desktop | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 00:05 |
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| crashanddie | lolwut... the only game I don't watch there's 4 goals? | 00:11 |
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| PolarFox | crashanddie: Godz of sensible men are punishing you for watching football at all. | 00:17 |
| crashanddie | PolarFox: I'll watch anything | 00:17 |
| crashanddie | in order of preference: tennis, cricket, rugby, football | 00:18 |
| crashanddie | with tennis about a million miles in front of anything else | 00:18 |
| crashanddie | PolarFox: A sensible man is punishing you for believing in gods at all. | 00:19 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, tennis for the game or for the bouncing boo errr balls | 00:19 |
| crashanddie | Well, anything that has bouncy balls has my attention (except for gay porn) | 00:20 |
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| crashanddie | but yeah, tennis for the game, the players, the tactics, the effect of the crowd on the players and their game, etc | 00:20 |
| crashanddie | it's the only game where you can see a guy go from acing each serve to not even bothering going after an easy ball because of the crowd's reactions | 00:21 |
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| shorter | didn't realize how many of these applications ive installed make something run in the background and eat battery | 00:21 |
| joga | well...the processes are probably mostly just sleeping | 00:22 |
| lcuk | apart from when they arent | 00:22 |
| lcuk | shorter, depends on what you do and how often they things monitoring wakeup | 00:22 |
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| joga | depends of course on the prog but generally having them in the background doesn't necessarily mean they're doing anything | 00:22 |
| shorter | so I shouldn't disable their startup? | 00:23 |
| shorter | like sshd for example | 00:23 |
| shorter | which I'm almost always not using | 00:23 |
| joga | the sshd statusbar applet thingy is pretty useful | 00:24 |
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| joga | if you occasionally want t | 00:24 |
| joga | *it | 00:24 |
| joga | well...time to crash, good night... | 00:24 |
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| shorter | hmm, I wonder if I can cache like 10gigs of maps for offline work | 00:34 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:38 |
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| mece | hello | 00:40 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: ping | 00:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | if you don't want sshd running, then maybe xinetd is the right ting for you | 00:45 |
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| shorter | well that app worked - now only port 53 is open | 00:49 |
| shorter | yall install bash3? | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | anyway I feel rather happy about sshd each time I need to quickly check sth wrt maemo when sitting on my laptop and phone is 2 rooms away. And every time the damn screen is broken :-P | 00:51 |
| MohammadAG | what's dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe) | 00:51 |
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| MohammadAG | * MohammadAG51 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) <-- always remember to remove all bind mount before removing a directory with /dev/ and /proc mounted | 00:59 |
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| DrGrov | Anyone tested to stream some World Cup games on the N900? | 01:02 |
| vldcnst | whats the stream source? | 01:02 |
| DrGrov | I have not tested but wonder if anyone have tested | 01:03 |
| DrGrov | I might test tomorrow if I am not in front of the computer or tv to watch the early game between Netherlands - Denmark | 01:03 |
| vldcnst | I'm streaming just fine yup | 01:03 |
| MohammadAG | on the N900? | 01:03 |
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| DrGrov | yes, on the N900. Hope it works | 01:04 |
| MohammadAG | that was @ vldcnst | 01:05 |
| vldcnst | to the n900, yes | 01:05 |
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| MohammadAG | vldcnst, how/what stream? | 01:06 |
| vldcnst | MohammadAG, knots and dvb | 01:07 |
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| kW_ | MohammadAG: Do you know whether it is possible to enable serial-over-USB on the N900? | 01:07 |
| MohammadAG | serial-over-USB? | 01:08 |
| MohammadAG | USB networking? | 01:08 |
| kW_ | MohammadAG: the former, but the latter would be fine, too | 01:08 |
| kW_ | (I need this when nothing in the system is setup, e.g. during a script caleld by /sbin/preinit) | 01:09 |
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| MohammadAG | http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking | 01:09 |
| MohammadAG | Oh | 01:09 |
| MohammadAG | well, there was a bootmenu mod for it | 01:09 |
| kW_ | (it is just for debugging why my booting modifications fail for some reason...) | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | serial over usb commonly known as usb rs232 adapter? | 01:10 |
| MohammadAG | it's not RS232 iirc | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or the thing e.g. uBoot does | 01:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ttyUSB0 | 01:11 |
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| MohammadAG | http://metalab.at/wiki/Hack-A-N900/Usb_Recovery_Mode | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | usb etworking is yet another ting | 01:12 |
| MohammadAG | The boot menu mod works, USB networking didn't work for me, but I was quite a n00b when I tried it | 01:12 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, yeah, but he said it'd work equally as well for what he's doing | 01:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | oh, ok | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nvm, me raming... | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | afk | 01:13 |
| MohammadAG | I really want the serial console thing though | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | roaming even | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Ikarus: ?? any news? | 01:14 |
| kW_ | well... starting WLAN using WPA instead of usbnet would be overkill, wouldn't it? | 01:14 |
| pupnik | very interesting MohammadAG | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | debootstrap's validating step is kinda fooked | 01:15 |
| kW_ | MohammadAG: maybe you know something different: is it possible to get a normal console on the N900 screen? | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | it validated files for a wrong distro | 01:15 |
| MohammadAG | framebuffer, you need a custom kernel, and it won't work (at least to my knowledge) on maemo | 01:16 |
| MohammadAG | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Fedora | 01:16 |
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| kW_ | hm... I have the "power" kernel | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | There's no precompiled binary for one w/ a framebuffer | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | which is kinda sad | 01:17 |
| MohammadAG | Load average: 10.08 6.00 4.4 \o/ | 01:18 |
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| kW_ | Ok, I think I got it. :-) Now I have Maemo 5 PR 1.2 running on a 20GB encrypted root :-) | 01:24 |
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| Corsac | did you do a howto? | 01:25 |
| mece | shit, i've uploaded 3 busted packages in a row | 01:25 |
| MohammadAG | xD | 01:25 |
| kW_ | no, I just tried to make it work :-) | 01:25 |
| mece | annoying when they all work nicely when built at home, but the autobuilder versions either miss deps or segfault on launch. | 01:26 |
| kW_ | Is it possiblet to disable watchdogs _without_ getting into R&D mode? | 01:26 |
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| MohammadAG | yeah... no | 01:26 |
| MohammadAG | well, you can try the Mer way I guess | 01:26 |
| kW_ | MohammadAG: which is? | 01:26 |
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| kW_ | "The keyboard backlight behind the left and right side of the keyboard flickers in response to system activity. " is quite annoying when using a phone for production, but I need to tame the watchdogs in order to have sufficient time to enter the passphrase | 01:28 |
| MohammadAG | kW_, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Fedora#watchdog_other | 01:28 |
| pupnik | http://www.vgmpf.com/Music/SeikenDensetsu3-SFC/14%20-%20Innocent%20Sea.ogg wonderful song from SNES Seiken Densetsu soundtrack | 01:30 |
| kW_ | MohammadAG: thank you :-) | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | kW_: patch the kernel | 01:31 |
| kW_ | DocScrutinizer51: for the kernel to do what? | 01:32 |
| MohammadAG | kW_, np | 01:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | for the kernel not to wake the watchdog(+) | 01:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Or maybe there are simply flags to turn off hte watchdog | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | also a posibility | 01:34 |
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| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, BAD news: used QAudioInput on a N900, tried to record some audio in an interactive app. guess how much the latency was ? :) | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | there are flags, he doesn't want them | 01:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | once a watchdog is awake it's its nature not to sleep | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | 1? | 01:35 |
| SpeedEvil | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/ - see that kW_ | 01:36 |
| MohammadAG | I tamed the watchdog | 01:36 |
| kW_ | MohammadAG: the script depends on /usr/sbin/wd_keepalive which does not seem to be preinstalled in maemo and which I also cannot find... | 01:36 |
| SpeedEvil | benno2: 3 hours 24 minutes. | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | benno2: 2s? | 01:36 |
| benno2 | 4000-5000msec latency with QAudioInput, | 01:36 |
| SpeedEvil | ... | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ouch | 01:36 |
| MohammadAG | kW_, check the mer rootfs image | 01:36 |
| SpeedEvil | That is quite bad. | 01:36 |
| benno2 | I don't know if I should laugh or cry | 01:36 |
| kW_ | MohammadAG: well, the flags are fine, but I do not want the need for R&D-mode | 01:36 |
| * SpeedEvil checks that. | 01:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | benno2: see the 'policy enforcing engine" in the paper you dug out | 01:37 |
| benno2 | how is a developer supposed to write an app for the N900 if by using the official Qt API getting those bad values | 01:37 |
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| benno2 | DocScrutinizer51, but VOIP apps achieve lower latencies, so there must be a way. any idea which app I should look at ? (open source) | 01:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | also you can ccess low level alsa soundcard drive directly, on the expense of screwing PA | 01:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not on maemo, sorry | 01:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | libtelepathy? nope | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | With arecord, it's more like 0.25s | 01:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | record -f cdr test.wav -t raw -V stereo | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | check the paper, ther,s a 'voice sink' | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and that policy engine | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | It's more like 0.15 (I forgot ssh latency) | 01:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | which is the modern complement of alsactl | 01:42 |
| benno2 | DocScrutinizer51, I would like to write an app which is system friendly and is interactive. I found this document, any idea if one needs to use libplayback, OHM,PEP ? http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain#Audio_Subsystem | 01:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry Imm ircing in a pub right now. no way to check that | 01:43 |
| pupnik | benno2: nice graphic | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ttyl | 01:44 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, that 0.2sec would be much better, wondering what arecord does differently since QAudioInput too uses ALSA | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Dunno. | 01:45 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, the question is what device is arecord using in your case ? if you launch it with -v (verbose) it should show it | 01:45 |
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| kW_ | MohammadAG: maybe there is a possibility to simply increase the watchout timeout interval (e.g. to 3 minutes)? | 01:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://pastebin.ca/1882530 benno2 | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh | 01:48 |
| * SpeedEvil pokes lcuk | 01:48 | |
| SpeedEvil | audio input - delay latency? | 01:48 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, could you use a unix pipe to test the input output latency ? mkfifo /tmp/fifo , and then piping the raw audio to that pipe and aplay reading from it so you should hear what you say in real time (with a short delay) | 01:48 |
| * SpeedEvil points at benno2's question above | 01:48 | |
| MohammadAG | kW_, not sure about that, but you probably need a custom kernel | 01:48 |
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| kW_ | it looks like http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/0.17testing4/mer-armel-generic-image-v0.17testing4.tar.gz does not contain a Mer image anymore... | 01:50 |
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| pupnik | benno2: can do that with gstreamer from commandline | 01:51 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, thanks for the info. I see period_size 5512, buffer_size 22050, quite a lot ! | 01:51 |
| benno2 | pupnik, if you can try it please (no N900 handy ATM) | 01:51 |
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| pupnik | also benno2 to see what alsa is using for buffer.. | 01:52 |
| pupnik | cat /proc/asound/RX51/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params | 01:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | ben: not working for some reason | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ben: that's half a second | 01:53 |
| pupnik | some more notes http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=442596&postcount=6 | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | benno2: err - 1/4 | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: PIPE?? "arecord|aplay" | 01:53 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvill what do you get with: cat /proc/asound/RX51/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | benno2: which is about what I 'measured' - by banging on the mic and looking for the peak | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: doesn't want to know | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | 'closed' | 01:54 |
| crashanddie | BALLS | 01:54 |
| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, I honestly did not try to combine arecord and aplay to act as a fullduplex audio system, pipe | might work | 01:55 |
| crashanddie | I fucking hate it when the browser crashes about 2/3 in a long post | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: that for sure isn't the buffer used by alsa<->PCM PA plugin | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | http://pastebin.ca/1882534 | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: works great even over ssh :-P | 01:55 |
| mece | crrrraaaap! | 01:55 |
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| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: that is the buffer alsa uses when talking to the hw subsystem, at the end of the chain | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | used that to copy mic of Freerunner to a laptop | 01:56 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: There exist form history things that save that | 01:56 |
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| pupnik | in the general case it is set by PA | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: axactly | 01:56 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: nha, it's blogger, so it autosaves every twenty nano seconds | 01:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | pico | 01:56 |
| kW_ | http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/0.16/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.16.tar.gz is a Mer image, but it does not contain "/usr/sbin/wd_keepalive"... | 01:57 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, thanks. that looks like the real hw device, buffer size 1920, so 2 channels, 16bit = 480samples / 48000 = 10msec | 01:58 |
| benno2 | the question is can an user space app access the real alsa device and not the one emulated by pulse audio | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: should work, if not then you got problems with arecord input device or aplay output device. For arecord I wouldn't be astonished to find 'default' doesn't work for record source | 01:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | It was working - I was banging on the mic - and the vumeter was bouncing | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | However - playing audio wasn't | 01:59 |
| benno2 | I mean without killing pulse audio. the app should be system friendly and not requiring the user to do something special like killing and restarting daemons | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 01:59 |
| * SpeedEvil wants to at some point work out how idle the device can be when playing audio. | 02:00 | |
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| SpeedEvil | I want to know if the audio 'card' can simply take a 10 meg buffer, and play it | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: (can a user...) can, if you accept the limitations as mentioned above. Might freak PA | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | funky | 02:01 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders how he's totally killed sound | 02:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer | you tried to playback tru alsa? | 02:02 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-06-14 00:59:35] <SpeedEvil> However - playing audio wasn't | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Ok - somehow the audio has gotten wedged into going to the speakers | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: just using aplay/record | 02:03 |
| SpeedEvil | s/speakers/phones/ | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 02:03 |
| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, I can only pray that Meego will clear this mess, since other companies like intel are involved perhaps they dumped some of this nonsense. looks nice on paper but works crappy in practice | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | you bet it's crap | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Aha | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | the concept is flawed | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Ok - that works now | 02:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I get wierd delayed feedback noises | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | what works now | 02:04 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, verdict ? | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | nice :-D | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | arecord|aplay | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | It sounds like a 1960s dr who | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually has a rtt ~500ms | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | or less | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | around a second | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeew | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | that is - one tap generates a ~1hz cycle | 02:05 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, keep in mind that unix pipes introduce some delay too, probably the pipe is a few kbytes so it might still not be the best the system can achieve | 02:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I know | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | arecord -D hw:0.0 | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | or 0.1 | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | or 1.0 | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | nota bene you can advice arecord/play to use arbitrary buffer sizes etc | 02:07 |
| mece | why autobuilder, Why are you killing my wesnoth?! | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can config almost everything, as aplay also is the test app for alsa | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | the reference implementation | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | the only thing not used in aplay/record is buffer skipping as used in twinkle, and that's why twinkle fails with PA's vrappy ALSA compatibility plugin - they never even cared about implemeting that call in a semi decent way | 02:10 |
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| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, so do I understand it correctly that the N900 provides a real ALSA hw interface (10msec latency hw buf), pulse audio hijacks it and provides the crappy high latency alsa device to user space apps ? still wondering how voip apps like skype get their work done | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe skipping wasn't the correct term | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: obviously, yes. exactly | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: look at p15 of the unbelievable paper | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ""ALSA hw:0 \n the reular ALSA device"" | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | regular even | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | which is ALSA sink/source in the PA domain | 02:14 |
| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, ALSA provides a software mixing layer which can be sample accurate, wondering why they did not use it and let the app developer the possibility open to use hw alsa directly | 02:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then you got a voice sink/source, and a music sink | 02:14 |
| MohammadAG | Downloading 400MBs on the N900's gonna take time | 02:15 |
| MohammadAG | even worse is unpacking them | 02:15 |
| SpeedEvil | There are constraints. | 02:15 |
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| * MohammadAG disables PSM | 02:15 | |
| SpeedEvil | For example - you have to do the filtering also | 02:15 |
| MohammadAG | would that even help? | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: dunno. Somebody every now and then claims dmix is buggy, but I always found it works like a charm and PA is buggy like dogshit | 02:15 |
| SpeedEvil | and other stuff that's not in alsa | 02:15 |
| SpeedEvil | but... | 02:15 |
| * benno2 agrees with DocScrutinizer | 02:15 | |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: With me - PSM does not decrease download speed. | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: It does affect some interactive stuff like X, or ssh | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: filtering? not in ALSA? c'mon | 02:16 |
| SpeedEvil | It is? | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil | oh well. | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG | Oh, so it wouldn't help :/ | 02:17 |
| * MohammadAG wants a quad core armel cpu | 02:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer | there's LADSPA, you can't do the things that can't be done with LADSPA | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG | 23 minutes, that's not bad | 02:18 |
| benno2 | is there an open source VOIP app which works well on the N900 ? (in order to look at the code what's the magic key to achieve latencies that are not measured in centuries) | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | echo cancellation? | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: also notice they developed their own proprietary shit for PA. So they could have done for ALSA | 02:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Indeed | 02:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Or they could have put pulseaudio in kernel. | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMFG!! | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | kernel: tainted | 02:19 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean there's a *reason* why PA uses the ALSA soundcard kernel drivers | 02:20 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, no need for audio stuff which resides in the kernel. for example the jackd sound daemon is an userspace app. it uses alsa and runs with RT scheduling, kernel must be compiled with real time support. it can easily achieve single digit latencies without dropouts, under high load and several active apps. | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | they're just not capable to come up with anything on par | 02:21 |
| SpeedEvil | benno2: Things aren't always one sanely :/ | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | but WHO NEEDS THAT? | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil | s/on/don/ | 02:22 |
| infobot | SpeedEvil meant: benno2: Things aren't always done sanely :/ | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe musiciians trying to run realtime effects on their computer. Then a 10ms latency might be too much | 02:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though even musicians seem to tolerate 50ms | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean, that's 15m distance. So what? | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, 16.5 | 02:24 |
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| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, it depends, sound travels 1meter in 3msec, so 10msec = loudspeaker at 3 meters distance. as said jack is capable of 3-5msec latency (input to output), and since most dsp based hw effects do use buffering too I don't think they do considerably better. | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | at a velocity of 330m/s | 02:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and that poor soul of sw engineer worries about 5ms latency on GSM - MUHAHAHA | 02:26 |
| Mikkoviiva | buah | 02:27 |
| kW_ | How do I actually _disable_ R&D mode? It looks like when booting, the USB logo does not appear anymore.. | 02:27 |
| SpeedEvil | There is probably a nokia spec somewhere that says 'thou shalt keep under xms delay' | 02:27 |
| benno2 | IMHO next time nokia should better research what kind of architectures exist (eg audio) on linux and discuss that with the project devs rather than hire a local intern and then based on his findings make a device out of it. doomed to fail | 02:27 |
| Martiini | professional soundcards advertise latencies below 6 sec | 02:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Written in the days of the 3310 | 02:27 |
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| MohammadAG | kW_, R&D mode doesn't have to do with the USB icon | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: the problem is there isn't. It just says "keep latency as low as possible" | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | anyways, flasher-3.5 --disable-rd-mode | 02:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: how do you know? | 02:28 |
| kW_ | MohammadAG: well, this was my problem, the USB cable was simply not connected... | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | >.< | 02:29 |
| Martiini | any development of Android take place here much`? | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: http://linuxplumbersconf.org/2009/slides/Jyri-Sarha-audio_miniconf_slides.pdf page 9 ""Cellular Call Latency Challenge"" | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | nope Martiini. | 02:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | Martiini: I suggest you try other channels - maybe ##politics for android development. | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: this together with the way the rest of this paper is written makes it obvious what requirement spec the poor sw eng got | 02:30 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 02:30 |
| Martiini | Majority of software being written on Earth .. is just crap ... KDE, Gnome, Windows .. iphone, symbian ... | 02:31 |
| Martiini | + you get PC games ... | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: "challenge" == 'the paper where my boss has written down what I need to do' | 02:31 |
| Martiini | If only we would get simple things ... like a decent IRC app for linux phones .. etc | 02:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | xchat works OK. | 02:32 |
| Martiini | I mean .. You get 100 000 applications for iPhone .. how about a decent IRC application .. with contact saving support .. etc .. no | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | but it's hardly for phones. | 02:33 |
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| marmoute | Martiini: irsii ? | 02:33 |
| FredrIQ | martiini | 02:33 |
| Martiini | xchat is not good enough .. quadrapassel is much better if you talk IRC clients | 02:33 |
| FredrIQ | what's wrong with xchat | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | wha'ts wrong with... | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | what he said | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | contact saving - in IRC?? | 02:34 |
| FredrIQ | you also have kvirc if you really don't want to use xchat but it isn't customized for 800x480 | 02:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Also pidgin | 02:34 |
| FredrIQ | and irssi | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck pidgin | 02:34 |
| Martiini | so .. to get features for IRC on a phone .. one needs xchat, pidgin, irssi ... | 02:34 |
| FredrIQ | .. | 02:35 |
| ali1234 | i like the way pidgin makes irc look like any other protocol and wish that someone would make a half decent plugin for telepathy | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | only nice feature of pidgin is softscrolling. And I'm not sure I've seen this on maemo | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: also channel aliases. | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | granted | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | chan aliases would be mad useful | 02:36 |
| FredrIQ | martiini | 02:36 |
| FredrIQ | what do you miss with xchat? | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: My pidgin setup is tabs down the righthand side, with the letters at 90 degrees - 'HOS' 'MD' 'ED' 'OSM' 'TP' ... | 02:36 |
| Martiini | Android may become great if they get it right | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | nevr knew pidgin can do that. Maybe that relates to the <60min I was willing to cope with it | 02:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and that's been on OM, not on maemo | 02:37 |
| MohammadAG | Android is kinda broken by design | 02:37 |
| MohammadAG | broken linux that is | 02:37 |
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| pigeon | excuse my ignorance, but what is softscrolling? | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | the opposite of hardscrolling of course | 02:38 |
| Martiini | maemo/meego is based on fedora, .. correct ?? | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Instead of jumping from line to line, it scrolls smoothly | 02:38 |
| SpeedEvil | or it can | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | No | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | Maemo is based on Debian, MeeGo is based on RPM (didn't this originate on Red Hat?) | 02:38 |
| pigeon | that would be smooth scrolling? no? | 02:38 |
| FredrIQ | martiini, maemo were developed from debian but nowdays it isn't compatible with it anymore | 02:39 |
| FredrIQ | pigeon, same thing | 02:39 |
| pigeon | ok then | 02:39 |
| Martiini | how about puppy linux .. anyone tried puppy ... super-efficient .. tiny , fast | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil | It smoothly scrolls up when a new line appears, with the new line coming into view slowly | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | FredrIQ: please don't torture my brain with such fuzzy stereotypes | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | currently installing Ubuntu 9.10 | 02:40 |
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| FredrIQ | DocScrutinizer, eh? | 02:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | FredrIQ: what for god's sake means ""maemo were developed from debian but nowdays it isn't compatible with it anymore"" | 02:41 |
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| teilzeitstudent | Is the Phonet kernel stuff related to maemo (n900 anyway)? Just updating my kernel and I was wondering if I need that to get usb network running. | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's BS | 02:41 |
| FIQ | well, go figure out | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | phonet is required to get the phone to work | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | AIUI | 02:42 |
| teilzeitstudent | "aiui"? | 02:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~wtf aiui | 02:42 |
| infobot | AIUI: as I understand it | 02:42 |
| teilzeitstudent | ah :p | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | ~wtf roflmaowpimp | 02:43 |
| infobot | Gee... I don't know what roflmaowpimp means... | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | phonet are the modem drivers (the short version of the story) | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | haha | 02:43 |
| teilzeitstudent | So.. phonet is required on the device, but not on the host? | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 02:43 |
| marmoute | ~wtf tla | 02:43 |
| infobot | TLA: three letter acronym | 02:43 |
| teilzeitstudent | Alright thanks | 02:44 |
| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, going to post some of my findings and problems with Qt audio on talk.maemo, let's see if one can suggest how to lower the latency. which forum should I chose ? | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it's needed for access to the GSM modem only | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~wtf etla | 02:44 |
| infobot | ETLA: extended three letter acronym | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: !tmo? | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: honestly, tmo is the maemo badlands. If I had to guess, I'd opt for "n900" | 02:46 |
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| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, I too tought to chose n900. I will report this as a BUG. a big BUG IMHO :) will it ignite a flameware ? :) | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | just everything ignites a flamewar on tmo | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | some of the users have multiple personalities so they can troll with themselves ;-P | 02:48 |
| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, I will try to be polite but describe the facts as they are, that Qt Audio in this form is useless for interactive apps. | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | one thing's for sure, you won't get a single bit of useful info iut of tmo, without sophisticated stuff like Kayman filters etc | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: all honest I'd suggest you better open a ticket | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | or post to devel ML | 02:50 |
| benno2 | DocScrutinizer: you mean better to post to maemo devel list ? (I'm subscribed) | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody of the people you want to address is bothering to read tmo, I guess | 02:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | benno2: yes, post to devel mailing list | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | and open a ticket on bugtracker | 02:51 |
| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, yeah might make sense what you said, too much noise. so better the ML or open a bug report ? (what's the URL of maemo's bugtracker) | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, mompls | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | bug #222 | 02:52 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=222 List of Maemo icons is missing | 02:52 |
| kW_ | MohammadAG: the wd_keepalive does not work :-( | 02:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | benno2: I'd suggest you open the ticket, then post to ML and refer to it | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: in the ticket you're supposed to be terse on description of problem, and on ML you can elaborate on your thoughts and ask for alternative ways to implement what you need | 03:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kW_: wd_keepalive probably only works when it comes from the process that initiated aka awakened the watchdog | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | kW_: that's pure guessing | 03:03 |
| kW_ | DocScrutinizer: well, but the script here http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/Fedora#watchdog_other suggests something different | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | I easily might be completely wrong on that | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | *yawn* | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | hey it's loading | 03:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kW_: that's not exactly a script, that's a upstart file to start / stop a service | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, more a initfile | 03:08 |
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| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, thanks for the tips. will do it! but probably today my concentration is too low to precisely write down the stuff precisely. I might even write some sample source because often the first response you get is, it's your fault, your code probably does something wrong,read thje API xyz, there is a low level acess API etc :) | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | fair enough :-D a small proggi to demontrate the issue is probably best you can do, for a ticket | 03:12 |
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| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, yes because no one can deny it and saves a lot of useless talking. ok thanks again guys for your help. see you next time hopefully with a less buggy maemo :) | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | kW_: also /usr/sbin/wd_keepalive seems to not exist on maemo (I know it's fedora). So if you boot the maemo kernel, I wouldn't expect the way the watchdogs work on N900 is completely compatible with the wd_keepalive way | 03:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: hope to see you next time soon, same place, with just a few news on the same old bug :-) | 03:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | benno2: don't expect Nokia to release PR1.3 merely for fixing this issue, in 3weeks. | 03:18 |
| kW_ | DocScrutinizer: well, I used the wd_keepalive from fedora-arm-RPM packages | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | benno2: so probably here and devel ML is your best chance to get it sorted | 03:19 |
| * luke-jr wonders why Canonical writes a crappy replacement for standard system components and every other distro jumps onboard | 03:19 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: ohnoes. Which one this time? | 03:20 |
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| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: just the same init/cron => jumpstart | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~curse canonical | 03:20 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, canonical ! | 03:20 |
| luke-jr | upstart* | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, upstart isn't a cononical nvention aiui | 03:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | and actually upstart *could* be nice | 03:21 |
| luke-jr | upstart does nothing that init-ng didn't already do | 03:22 |
| luke-jr | other than trying to replace cron | 03:22 |
| luke-jr | and upstart breaks my workflow | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it were used the way it's been intended and not as a cheap crappy replacement for init | 03:22 |
| luke-jr | I type /etc/init.d/service action and it whines to type something else | 03:22 |
| GAN900 | Jaffa, ping? | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: ack | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | on a device like N900 upstart concept make a damn lot of sense | 03:23 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: what benefit over init-ng? | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | event driven by design | 03:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so everything like e.g shutting down modem for flightmode should be handled by upstart | 03:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as upstart is supposed to manage services all the lifetime, not just boot up the system | 03:26 |
| MohammadAG | didn't you say GSM during flights causing problems is really just a rumor :P | 03:26 |
| GAN900 | Damn, I guess it's done. | 03:26 |
| * GAN900 was playing softball. | 03:26 | |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: and init-ng doesn't do that how? | 03:26 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: it causes problems for the device at least.. | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: sure you can implement all this with init-ng as well. It's just more elegant in upstart, more generic | 03:27 |
| * luke-jr doubts it | 03:28 | |
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| xim_ | is it possible to set an application to launch when the headphones are plugged in? | 03:28 |
| GAN900 | xim_, yes | 03:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: I haven't dealt with upstart much, just read he project homepage some 2 years ago, and it was really more appealing than it looked like when you look at it from a init-ng_replacement POV | 03:29 |
| xim_ | GAN900, would one use the headphones daemon package for that? | 03:29 |
| xim_ | seemed from the description to just send an interrupt when they were unplugged | 03:30 |
| GAN900 | xim_, dunno, I only know a dbus signal is sent when it's plugged in, so. :P | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: lo | 03:30 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, hey-ho. | 03:31 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: sure you don't mean init-replacement? | 03:31 |
| luke-jr | init-ng is the 5 year old thing, not the pre-Linux thing | 03:32 |
| luke-jr | lol at Wikipedia on init | 03:33 |
| luke-jr | "Various efforts have been made to replace the traditional init daemons with something better. Below is a list of these alternatives in no particular order." | 03:33 |
| luke-jr | Initng, a full replacement of init designed to start processes asynchronously | 03:33 |
| luke-jr | Upstart, a full replacement of init designed to start processes asynchronously initiated by Ubuntu | 03:33 |
| luke-jr | the only difference being that Ubuntu initiated Upstart | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 03:34 |
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| xim_ | gan900, I am new to dbus, how would I go about learning how to intercept dbus signals and luaunching events | 03:35 |
| SpeedEvil | xim_: start by grabbing the source of headphoned - or whatever it was called | 03:35 |
| xim_ | ah good idea thanks | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, in gemany we got the profession names application-developer and system-developer, and wiki has exactly same description for both. Still everybody of random HR wants to know if I'm app-dev or sys-dev | 03:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | Fix wiki then. | 03:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I would if I knew any difference | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | 'Application developers always wear blue hats'. | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, sounds reasonable XD | 03:39 |
| GAN900 | system/platform-dev | 03:39 |
| GAN900 | System dev works with libraries, application dev uses them. | 03:40 |
| GAN900 | Generally a platform dev is slightly above an app dev | 03:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I allways found that I need both in the end | 03:41 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, personally, I'd call you a platform dev. | 03:41 |
| luke-jr | oh, actually I'm fine w/ SysV init too... | 03:41 |
| luke-jr | it looks like the part that makes Upstart worthless is actually called OpenRC | 03:41 |
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| kW_ | Does anybody know where (e.g. in the kernel) the flickering keyboard backlight is controlled in R&D-mode? | 03:49 |
| SpeedEvil | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ | 03:49 |
| SpeedEvil | search for watchdog | 03:49 |
| SpeedEvil | or LED | 03:49 |
| SpeedEvil | or elvis | 03:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | kW_: the flickering kbd backlight in R&D mode is a hardware feature. It's enabled by NOLO I guess | 03:57 |
| kW_ | DocScrutinizer: but how does the hardware know whether some parts of the system are active or not? | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | see ""SLEEP_IND, NSLEEP1, SYS_CLKREQ"" on schematics page 6 | 03:58 |
| kW_ | well, SLEEP_IND does not refer to the keyboard LEDs, does it? | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | SLEEP_IND seems the gate signal enabling this feature | 03:59 |
| kW_ | what makes you believe this? (I actually tried to disable "sleep_ind", with no success) | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | the other 2 signals obviously control the flickering of the ndividual LEDs | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | kW_: the schematics make me believe this | 04:00 |
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| MohammadAG | what's with the N900 me disconnecting all the time... | 04:01 |
| kW_ | DocScrutinizer: do you have a URL for the schematics? | 04:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw SLEEP_IND is GPIO162 | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | kW_: you find the scheamtics via a link on the wiki hardware schematics page | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | D1322 is the component that's in your focus | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | also N1322 2-channel LED driver chip | 04:07 |
| crashanddie | < mrclopes> who australia played to be in world cup anyway... are there any ohter countries in Oceania? | 04:09 |
| crashanddie | v | 04:09 |
| crashanddie | < crashanddie> mrclopes: you must be american? | 04:09 |
| crashanddie | < mrclopes> yes | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | omfg | 04:09 |
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| derf | In our country's defense, I've _been_ to more contries in Oceania than that. | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you're also sure this isn't a disk we live on, yes? :-P | 04:12 |
| derf | I understand WGS84 coordinates. | 04:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 04:13 |
| kW_ | DocScrutinizer: yes, it looks like N1322 is handling this | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | toldya | 04:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | basically *somebody* does the GPIO wiggling in SoC, probably NOLO starts with it. Dunno if maybe SYS_CLKREQ and SYS_OFF_MODE aka NSLEEP1 are configured to work 2nd function | 04:19 |
| kW_ | hmm | 04:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I'm rather sure setting GPIO_162 to low (high?) will enable rsp stop that flickering | 04:20 |
| kW_ | but then, setting SLEEP_IND to 0 should work, why it apparently did not | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | And I'd not be surprised to learn this particular GPIO isn't touched anywhere in the kernel | 04:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe the GPIO isn't configured correctly as output? | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | "correctly" | 04:22 |
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| kW_ | DocScrutinizer: now, " echo inactive >/sys/bus/platform/drivers/gpio-switch/sleep_ind/state" did it actually | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | see? :-D | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | great, please document it on the wiki hw pages somewhere | 04:23 |
| SpeedEvil | See if you can add somewhere sane to add that on the LED page | 04:23 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED#Hardware | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | kW_: nice find :-D | 04:24 |
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| crashanddie | anyone ever heard of the acronym FML? | 04:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, one of my best friend's favorites. | 04:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, what now? | 04:32 |
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| crashanddie | just never heard it, was surprised to see an article on cnet describing it as a "very popular acronym amongst bloggers and regulars on internet forums" | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: please fix http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_LED#cite_note-lp5521-spec-0 - refer to http://wiki.maemo.org/LED_patterns#References. I don't get it as the references don't show up in http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=LED_patterns&action=edit§ion=25 it seems :-o | 04:33 |
| derf | It was very popular like two years ago. | 04:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, the internet is a big place, I suppose. | 04:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | There are places where soccer is popular in the US, too. :P | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: seems I need to open another ticket against mediawiki? | 04:34 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 04:34 | |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=147659 | 04:34 |
| povbot | Bug 147659: was not found. | 04:34 |
| SpeedEvil | (not related to that) | 04:34 |
| crashanddie | who owns povbot? | 04:34 |
| crashanddie | povbot: ownerinfo | 04:34 |
| povbot | crashanddie: Error: "ownerinfo" is not a valid command. | 04:34 |
| crashanddie | povbot: owner | 04:34 |
| povbot | crashanddie: Error: "owner" is not a valid command. | 04:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, mgedmin. | 04:34 |
| crashanddie | povbot: help | 04:34 |
| povbot | crashanddie: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin. | 04:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | povbot: info | 04:34 |
| povbot | DocScrutinizer: Error: "info" is not a valid command. | 04:34 |
| vldcnst | povbot: version | 04:35 |
| povbot | vldcnst: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.3. The newest version available online is 0.83.4.1. | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | povbot: status | 04:35 |
| povbot | DocScrutinizer: Error: "status" is not a valid command. | 04:35 |
| crashanddie | povbot: leave | 04:35 |
| povbot | crashanddie: Error: "leave" is not a valid command. | 04:35 |
| vldcnst | povbot: part | 04:35 |
| povbot | vldcnst: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified. | 04:35 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: that was moved from somewhere I forget, I haven't gone through it for sanity | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: please don't kill povbot :-D | 04:35 |
| crashanddie | I'm going to | 04:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | why? | 04:36 |
| crashanddie | mgedmin seriously needs to put a filter on the bug trackers URLs that povbot matches against | 04:36 |
| crashanddie | I'm tired of seeing "bug not found" | 04:36 |
| crashanddie | as soon as someone links to anything that isn't bugs.maemo.org | 04:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, there aren't that many non maemo.org bugs being pasted. :P | 04:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | exactly, though I tend to agree with crashanddie it *should* have better filtering | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | povbot: ? | 04:38 |
| povbot | DocScrutinizer: Error: "?" is not a valid command. | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is what annoys me much more | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | bots ares upposed to correctly identify themselves and their owner | 04:38 |
| vldcnst | povbot: stats | 04:38 |
| povbot | vldcnst: I have 1 registered users with 0 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins. | 04:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, 'course it should. :P | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: that's at least freenode policy | 04:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, somebody poke mgedmin. | 04:41 |
| MohammadAG | /ms send mgedim would be equally good :p | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | if some freenode stuffer runs into povbot then (s)he'll kill that bot for not identifying who's admin | 04:43 |
| MohammadAG | mgedmin* | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | for strange reasons this seems to never work. Nobody of those I sent a /ms msg to ever seen it | 04:44 |
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| MohammadAG | lol | 04:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol? | 04:53 |
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| kW_ | Where can I get not-so-exotic packages for maemo? (For example, "hexdump" and a proper "head" implementation?) | 04:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | coreutils? | 05:09 |
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| lipe | can someone help me to connect my n900 in wifi with cisco leap authentication? | 05:31 |
| lipe | i need wpa_suplicant package but i don't found it | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3655 | 05:33 |
| povbot | Bug 3655: EAP-LEAP (Cisco) not supported | 05:33 |
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| lipe | povbot: officially... | 05:35 |
| povbot | lipe: Error: "officially..." is not a valid command. | 05:35 |
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| lipe | ops | 05:35 |
| lipe | povbot: wpa | 05:37 |
| povbot | lipe: Error: "wpa" is not a valid command. | 05:37 |
| SpeedEvil | umm - don't off-hand know what might provide wpa_supplicant | 05:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | Lurk - maybe more people will have a clue hen they waek up | 05:44 |
| SpeedEvil | I know it's a question that's been asked before I haven't been tracking it - as I use one AP. | 05:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Trying building it on device, to see if it works | 05:45 |
| lipe | i will try... | 05:45 |
| lipe | thanks for support | 05:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - I'm trying | 05:46 |
| lipe | :) thanks again | 05:46 |
| SpeedEvil | ah - I need to setup more prerequisites - openssl fails | 05:46 |
| SpeedEvil | not tonight. | 05:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Good luck | 05:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn, http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/leds/leds-lp5523.c is a shame | 06:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | guess I can't keep from fixing it, as it's really a pity | 06:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | Getting started hacking on stuff - even if it's not related directly isn't bad | 06:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yep. | 06:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and it's a shame how they waste 96 steps of programming storage, by simply assigning fixed addresses and restricting prog length for a engine to 16 | 06:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | incredibly uninspired code | 06:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | guess I can fix that so we keep API compatibility | 06:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | obviously another case of "we don't need that" | 06:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: btw I fixed the references mentioned above | 06:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, end result? | 06:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: err? of the "fixing"? | 06:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 06:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | wiki was ok, just a tiny line at end of that page was missing: <ref /> | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | or something like that | 06:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm planning another pass over the hardware pages tomorrow, adding data from modules. | 06:22 |
| SpeedEvil | kernel modules | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 06:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | that <reference /> bit is one weird piece of wiki formating magic O.O | 06:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, no, driver improvements | 06:25 |
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| pupnik | happy thoughts, happy thoughts | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: lol, I've not even started editing. The result will be you can at very least use 32 steps of program text per indicator LED flashing engine | 06:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, cool | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | instead of the hardcoded arbitrary limit of 16 we have now | 06:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | well maybe 31, as I need three steps for the muxer tables | 06:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: the LP5521 in N810 had 16 steps per engine, fixed. The LP5523 in N900 has 6 pages of 16, forming a uniform storage area of 96, which you can partition as you like to point each engine to the start address of its program. Alas the driver developer was 'too lazy' to deal with that awkward paging, and hardcoded a dedicated page for each of the 3 engines, wasting the remaining 3 pages worth of storage | 06:33 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders idly if any sandwich stores are open | 06:38 | |
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| * pupnik has extra frozen pizzas | 06:39 | |
| DocScrutinizer | if only I could patch mce as well, to free up engine3 from the idiotic task to do a 250ms ramp on dimming the kbd backlight. Damn that's really simpler and easier done in sw in mce, rather than sending a program for it to an engine in LP5523 and thus exclusively allocating the resource | 06:39 |
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| * pupnik looks nervously over at DocScrutinizer's laboratory | 06:41 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | but probably the developer wasn't aware you can control the brightness of each single led without using an engine running a program to do that | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe, but I could patch the driver to take care of that in sw (aka on SoC CPU) | 06:45 |
| * pupnik stares bovinely | 06:46 | |
| rafaelbrandao | greetings. does anyone know if there is any way I can install libusb-1.0 on a nokia n810? | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: we got /sys/*/*/engine1 engine2 and engine3. Engine3 is used by mce to dim the kbd backlight LEDs. If I change the code servicing the engine3 sysnode, so it does what mce *should* do, then the real hw engine3 is free and could show up as /sys/*/*/engine3_now_for_real | 06:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ugly but should work | 06:50 |
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| pupnik | that sounds crazy DocScrutinizer | 06:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, I know. Probably I *am* crazy | 06:52 |
| SpeedEvil | So you can do RGB LED patterns/ | 06:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep!!! | 06:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | rainbow | 06:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Or map to the keyboard LEDs in groups of three, and do a running light display with no CPU. | 06:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I just can't stand it when poorly written software wastes hw capabilities just because somebody was too lazy to think of a better more clean and less kinky way to implement things | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: also possible | 06:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though I'm able to do this with just one engine, and a few muxer table entries | 06:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's actually extremely simple | 06:56 |
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| GAN900 | Platform dev. :P | 07:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bug #10353 :-(( OMG I'd be ashamed If I were a Nokian | 07:25 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10353 result of USSD query should not be shown to user at all (If he wishes that) | 07:25 |
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| Macer | anybody know where mencoder instructions are for reencoding on the n900 | 07:30 |
| Macer | or is there some sort of mencoder front end i can use? | 07:30 |
| Macer | copied a show over to it and just now realized its 720p | 07:30 |
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| Macer | ohl nm. found it i think | 07:31 |
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| Macer | hahaha | 07:34 |
| Macer | 2fps | 07:34 |
| Macer | on the n900 | 07:34 |
| Macer | not worth it | 07:35 |
| Macer | i just reniced it.. maybe it will finish in 8 hours | 07:36 |
| Macer | while destroying my battery | 07:36 |
| Macer | :) | 07:36 |
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| Corsac | Stskeeps: wow, did you see the unrealircd backdoor/ | 08:17 |
| Corsac | ? | 08:17 |
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| shorter | The GPS barely works on its own - is it not meant to? | 08:52 |
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| shorter | At least in my minimal testing (waiting for sim card to arrive) | 08:52 |
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| kirma | I'd say it's an compromise in hardware-software design | 08:53 |
| kirma | GPS receivers on phones are *meant* to be assisted, IMO | 08:53 |
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| plastun | hello! how to create TouchSelector with some columns, but show only one? | 08:53 |
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| kirma | unassisted GPS isn't so central function to phone operation that the hardware would be allowed to take lots of space for components or power, and assist is an effective solution that's available on phone by design | 08:55 |
| kirma | too bad regarding roaming, but well... | 08:55 |
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| * RST38h moos evilly | 08:58 | |
| shorter | I was hoping it wasn't just my phone kirma | 08:59 |
| shorter | what about roaming though? | 08:59 |
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| kirma | roaming costs money, and assist uses data :) | 09:03 |
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| shorter | kirma, oh so you mean the ability to use GPS always without spending; yeah good idea | 09:04 |
| kirma | but anyway, if you don't get GPS lock with assist outdoors, then you have a problem. otherwise it's probably ok. | 09:04 |
| kirma | I've also observed excess unassisted lock times on e90 and n900... situation of course doesn't get any better if you're on the move, or in even slightly obstructed environment | 09:05 |
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| kirma | assist solves pretty much all of those issues with a rather small amount of traffic (although if it's done repetitively, that might cause noticeable numbers on roaming) | 09:07 |
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| shorter | uh, how do you line up icons on the desktop? | 09:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tweakr - enable gridsnap | 09:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | or just a problem to move them? | 09:46 |
| shorter | what causes a bunch of "failed cataloges"? | 09:51 |
| shorter | are the repositories down? | 09:51 |
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| valdyn | shorter: or your net connection was down | 09:54 |
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| shorter | worry sleepy eyes = newbness | 09:58 |
| dotblank | Is /tmp a good place to store temporary files during run time or something like ~/.tmp more usefull | 09:58 |
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| mece | hey | 10:02 |
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| timeless_mbp | http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fyle.fi%2Fuutiset%2Fkotimaa%2F2010%2F06%2Flangattoman_verkon_lainaaminen_tulossa_lailliseksi_1752259.html&sl=fi&tl=en | 10:03 |
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| stonda | § | 10:04 |
| stonda | whoops :P | 10:05 |
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| mece | timeless_mbp, well that's actually good news. | 10:06 |
| shorter | damn /home getting full and only been using for 2 days | 10:07 |
| shorter | give me a linux computer and I'll use a linux computer | 10:07 |
| shorter | heh | 10:07 |
| mece | shorter, on N900? | 10:09 |
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| MohammadAG51 | wtf! | 10:12 |
| shorter | yes | 10:12 |
| shorter | do you guys have strategies to avoid root getting full? | 10:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | tracker runs at the worst times, when you're installing a damn distro, load was 15+ | 10:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah, it's called... | 10:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | ~optification | 10:13 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs | 10:13 |
| shorter | how much of your home directories have you used? | 10:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | a lot, reached 36MBs (free) once | 10:14 |
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| shorter | forgot what's default? | 10:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | 2GB | 10:14 |
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| shorter | none of that is taken up by default? | 10:14 |
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| shorter | wonder how I used 1.6GB!? | 10:15 |
| shorter | odd | 10:15 |
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| shorter | it is funny how much more space a 3gb folder (on reiserfs on my box) will take up on a vfat partition (~5gb on the n900) | 10:21 |
| bef0rd | wow opera 10 looks pretty nice on diablo | 10:21 |
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| mece | heey.. irrilict has an gles port.. | 10:26 |
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| hrw | morning | 10:26 |
| mece | mornin hrw | 10:26 |
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| RST38h | http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/14/nokia-n9-meego-slider-leaks-in-early-video-tease/ | 10:32 |
| RST38h | hohoho | 10:32 |
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| PolarFox | "leaks" :D | 10:33 |
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| RST38h | "NASA has begun to wind down construction of the rockets and spacecraft that were to have taken astronauts back to the Moon Á | 10:34 |
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| RST38h | A arge [lithium] deposit worth an estimated $1 trillion has been discovered in Afghanistan | 10:37 |
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| RST38h | (can they just pour water there? =)) | 10:37 |
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| asj_ | do I pay $80 extra for a preffered seat with extra leg room on a 15 hour flight? | 10:46 |
| lcuk | asj_, only if that seat is in the cockpit | 10:47 |
| asj_ | lcuk: lol | 10:47 |
| asj_ | the jump seat isn't comfy and they don't allow that anymore | 10:47 |
| lcuk | ask for a seat with air conditioning | 10:48 |
| lcuk | perhaps an external | 10:48 |
| asj_ | for 15 hours at 40,000 feet I want heat | 10:48 |
| Surfa | asj_, depends on how tall you are | 10:48 |
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| asj_ | Surfa: I'm short | 10:48 |
| Surfa | then you probably won't pay :) | 10:48 |
| asj_ | done :) | 10:49 |
| Surfa | long haul planes typically have more than enough leg room for shorties like me | 10:49 |
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| asj_ | I haven't flown Air Canada in wow, probably 15 years, we'll see how they do | 10:49 |
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| asj_ | Surfa: mmm, I'm guessing unless it's business class I wouldn't notice, I want one of those seats they advertise on tv with Emerates, sadly I don't have 15k to spent on a trip | 10:50 |
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| Surfa | :) sas has that economy extra class that's quite ok.. it has some other benefits too.. | 10:52 |
| Surfa | can't remember what and how much it costs | 10:52 |
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| asj_ | heh, this is one of the cheapest roundtrip and shortest total time flights to North American I've done, which speaks well of Air Canada | 10:53 |
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| shorter | asj_ any tips, I'm trying to find good ticket prices | 10:58 |
| asj_ | shorter: to/from? | 10:59 |
| shorter | us -> europe | 10:59 |
| shorter | need specifics? | 10:59 |
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| asj_ | shorter: nope, there's a seat sale with AC, but that's not going to help to the US...probably... | 10:59 |
| asj_ | shorter: worth a try though, just plus something into aircanada.ca and see what pops up...who knows | 10:59 |
| shorter | yeah, I need round trip for about 2 months from abut july to about aug30... so long as it is cheap enough I don't care where in europe it lands | 11:00 |
| asj_ | unless you object to changing planes in toronto | 11:00 |
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| shorter | I found one for 1100$, whadya think? | 11:00 |
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| asj_ | I would expect better than that.... | 11:01 |
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| shorter | that is, round trip | 11:02 |
| shorter | am I supposed to enter a code for teh air canada site? | 11:02 |
| shorter | same price there actually | 11:02 |
| shorter | ah found th codes | 11:03 |
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| asj_ | hwh ok | 11:03 |
| shorter | im only 1 passenger so it wouldnt count anyhwo | 11:03 |
| asj_ | doh | 11:03 |
| shorter | yep | 11:03 |
| shorter | how often to ultra-travelers give away free miles or wahtever? | 11:03 |
| shorter | I don't know about all this travel stuff as I rarely get to fly | 11:04 |
| asj_ | I never have luck with airmiles, they never have seats open for me and I have a lot of airmiles waiting to be used... | 11:04 |
| shorter | one reason i got the n900 actually was for compatibility to gsm in EU | 11:04 |
| asj_ | it'll do 3g in EU... | 11:04 |
| shorter | yep, I'm just looking for the best options now | 11:05 |
| shorter | buying a sim for every country I'm in vs finding some provider that roams for cheap | 11:05 |
| mece | compiling Irrlicht opengles. I wonder what will happen. It's alpha stage apparently. | 11:05 |
| shorter | I'm getting a prepaid tmo in the US so I don't have to pay for service in the US while im not here | 11:05 |
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| shorter | how much you have left in /home mece? | 11:06 |
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| shorter | just curious | 11:06 |
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| mece | shorter, dunno, lemme check. | 11:08 |
| mece | shorter, 645Mb free | 11:09 |
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| mece | apparently I have a whole bunch of crap there :D | 11:09 |
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| shorter | yeah, I'm using 1.6G and I've only had this thing for 2 days | 11:10 |
| shorter | not sure how | 11:10 |
| shorter | got sloppy damn fast | 11:10 |
| shorter | I don't think it would have to do with the crap I transfered over into MyDocs | 11:10 |
| shorter | though, the files seem to take nearly twice as much space on vfat as they did on my reiserfs partition for some reason | 11:11 |
| mece | shorter, what have you installed then? | 11:11 |
| shorter | some apps, uh | 11:12 |
| shorter | I guess that's it? | 11:12 |
| mece | :) | 11:12 |
| shorter | yeah, I don't know how a few dozen apps from the manager would be that much.... | 11:12 |
| mece | wow.. | 11:12 |
| mece | Flight Gear Urban Effect. Pretty epic! | 11:12 |
| shorter | do people usually not use tha many? | 11:12 |
| shorter | no games actuallly | 11:12 |
| mece | as open source games go, flight gear is pretty amazing. | 11:12 |
| mece | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPtd6Np3u8Q | 11:12 |
| shorter | I'll get q3 on here sometime soon | 11:13 |
| shorter | can't wait till they have usb host support or whatever you call it | 11:13 |
| shorter | for flash drives, mice, and keyboards (usb) | 11:13 |
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| mece | shorter, for reals! I have no interest in the q's currently, but mouse + tv-out == win :D | 11:14 |
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| shorter | yeah, not sure about the status, but the possibilities are thrilling | 11:14 |
| shorter | could hook up that hardcore USB GPS puck I have | 11:15 |
| shorter | etc | 11:15 |
| shorter | I don't plan on actually playing q3 on the thing, but I'll just be thrilled as shit to have the game that got me into computing ('cause I had to overclock my 133mhz computer back in the day to play it) in my fookin pocket! | 11:16 |
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| shorter | btw, mece, do you update everything with extra testing repo disabled? | 11:18 |
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| mece | shorter, you mean apt-get upgrade? | 11:19 |
| shorter | I'm using the app manager still | 11:20 |
| shorter | heh | 11:20 |
| mece | shorter, me too. I don't feel like using upgrade. | 11:21 |
| mece | well I do use apt-get install | 11:21 |
| mece | but not apt-get upgrade | 11:22 |
| shorter | so when I enable and disable repos in the app manager does it affect the repos used in apt-get? | 11:22 |
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| mece | shorter, yes. | 11:25 |
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| mece | Irrlicht compiles nicely in scratchbox.. interesting. | 11:26 |
| mece | ok so.. who the hell do I install this lib? | 11:26 |
| mece | throw it in /usr/lib/ ? | 11:26 |
| shorter | mece, after installing a whole crap load of apps - are there any optimizations I can do for all the stuff that will startup automatically? | 11:27 |
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| mece | shorter, no idea. I'm not very good at that stuff. | 11:29 |
| mece | I'm more into dl source, compile, try, package, release :) | 11:30 |
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| Tachikoma | moin | 11:31 |
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| LiraNuna | "One reason why we have done this on this way is that at the same time we have been trying to handle opening of many currenly closed components that are needed in MeeGo and to build feasible MeeGo images for N900" | 11:32 |
| LiraNuna | <3 | 11:32 |
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| achipa | X-Fade: I see you got rid of hoops, but soccer is just too omnipresent these days :) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/soccerfrenzy/1.0.2/ | 11:36 |
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| DrGrov | Anyone using Ubuntu 10.04 ? | 11:39 |
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| toggles_w | DrGrov: yes doc | 11:39 |
| DrGrov | toggles_w: have you found any good use of Ubuntu with the N900? | 11:40 |
| toggles_w | DrGrov: you mean 10.04 on the n900? Not me, just on my desktops, I use my n900 for podcasting and like a usb stick | 11:41 |
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| mece | heh, http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_years/2010_1/windows-poor-dotnet-install.png | 11:42 |
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| DrGrov | toggles_w: no, i mean if there is any good things i can use 10.04 to help me with the n900. not installing 10.04 on n900 | 11:43 |
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| toggles_w | DrGrov: VBox ose to run the dev environment, things like that http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Development_Environment/Maemo_SDK_Virtual_Images | 11:45 |
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| DrGrov | toggles_w: oh, good. that would be something i am looking for. | 11:46 |
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| My_PeSePe | in this chanel speak inglish or spanish ? | 11:47 |
| DrGrov | toggles_w: is it easy to install virtualbox+ | 11:48 |
| DrGrov | toggles_w: ? | 11:48 |
| My_PeSePe | yes | 11:48 |
| My_PeSePe | us very easy | 11:48 |
| toggles_w | DrGrov: yes, it's in the app center | 11:48 |
| DrGrov | toggles_w: ok, i will go and fetch it right away. synaptic package manager? | 11:48 |
| toggles_w | applications->ubuntu software center | 11:48 |
| toggles_w | search for virtualbox | 11:49 |
| DrGrov | ok | 11:49 |
| DrGrov | i install virtualbox ose? | 11:49 |
| DrGrov | anything else than virtualbox ose? | 11:49 |
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| DrGrov | toggles_w: should i download the VBoxGTK as well? | 11:50 |
| DrGrov | toggles_w: and virtualbox ose? | 11:50 |
| toggles_w | just ose | 11:51 |
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| DrGrov | ah ok | 11:51 |
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| DrGrov | i hope i get a gui frontend to ose | 11:52 |
| DrGrov | toggles_w: ok, virtualbox ose is running. which is the image i should download? | 11:53 |
| toggles_w | DrGrov: http://vpc-sdk.garage.maemo.org/ | 11:56 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders why people favor OSE over PUEL | 11:56 | |
| DrGrov | toggles_w: thanks. i will go and fetch it right away. | 11:56 |
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| DrGrov | toggles_w: what should i do when i have it downloaded? | 11:59 |
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| toggles_w | DrGrov: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?Installation%20Instructions&id=1033&type=g | 12:02 |
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| DrGrov | toggles_w: thanks, i will give it a go later on tonight. | 12:04 |
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| Stskeeps | Corsac: yeah, i don't have anything to do with that | 12:11 |
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| marmoute | Can MicroB use the <video> tag ? | 12:52 |
| Venemo | try it | 12:53 |
| MohammadAG | hmm, what does platform.system() return on Windows? | 12:54 |
| MohammadAG | (python, after importing platform) | 12:54 |
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| Jaffa | GAN900: pong | 12:57 |
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| PBeck | hi | 12:59 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: you mean it' async? | 13:00 |
| MohammadAG | err | 13:00 |
| MohammadAG | no, I'm trying to detect what OS the python script's running on | 13:00 |
| alterego | Or do you expect it to work like exec on Linux/UNIX? | 13:00 |
| alterego | Oh, | 13:01 |
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| PBeck | perhaps anybody can help me. I have a problem with my program kfzcheck. Since my update to pr1.2 i get the following error without any code changes => *** glibc detected *** python: free(): invalid pointer: 0x004737a0 *** | 13:01 |
| PBeck | on pr1.1 i had no problems. What has changed? Is that a python problem itself? | 13:01 |
| alterego | PBeck: have you recompiled it? :P | 13:01 |
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| PBeck | alterego: yeah on every starting process through the python interpreter to bytecode ;) | 13:02 |
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| alterego | PBeck: interesting, and your scratchbox is up-to-date with PR1.2? | 13:04 |
| PBeck | http://pastebin.com/ajR989kc <= thats the complete log | 13:04 |
| PBeck | alterego: i have only tested it on the device - i develop only on the device | 13:05 |
| alterego | Oh wait, this is a python app? | 13:07 |
| PBeck | alterego: i dont know where the warning come from. But the warnings was not a problem on 1.1 | 13:07 |
| PBeck | alterego: yes right | 13:07 |
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| PBeck | alterego: it's in the repos perhaps you can test it | 13:10 |
| alterego | PBeck: dunno why, can't see your paste. :/ on the N900 | 13:10 |
| alterego | Sure, what's it called? | 13:11 |
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| PBeck | ? | 13:12 |
| PBeck | you cant see the paste? | 13:12 |
| alterego | no :/ | 13:12 |
| alterego | oh wait, got it now. | 13:14 |
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| PBeck | i have no problems with my n900 | 13:14 |
| haj | I have... but it's mostly that it tends to get a bit slow after some time, and then it needs a reboot.. | 13:16 |
| marmoute | haj: you mean after a few month ? | 13:17 |
| PBeck | haj: to few the pastebin entry ;) | 13:17 |
| PBeck | *view | 13:17 |
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| haj | marmoute: after about a day.. is more like it.. | 13:18 |
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| PBeck | haj: i think my uptime is around 5-14 days | 13:20 |
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| akshey | Hi, Is video calling supported on n900? By, video call I mean calling on a phone number, not through skype or gtalk. | 13:23 |
| haj | marmoute: could be the apps I run, or Titan's kernel, though... I'm mostly using development stuff... | 13:23 |
| haj | marmoute: I'm always running witter, dataplan monitor widget, fm transmitter widget, personal ip widget, and omweather widget.... Don't know if it could be some memory leak in those.. | 13:25 |
| alterego | akshey: 3G video calls are not supported no. | 13:27 |
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| BCMM | anyone know why? is there some kind of hardware constraint, or do they just consider it not important, or are they keeping it back to differentiate the next phone? | 13:27 |
| alterego | BCMM: I just think they can't be bothered at the moment :) | 13:29 |
| alterego | BCMM: It's a feature that wasn't really discussed, should be availabe in the next phone I guess. | 13:30 |
| alterego | Not particularly popular though | 13:30 |
| alterego | anyhow bbl | 13:30 |
| BCMM | how does it work, anyway? is it something that could be implemented the a third party like MMS, or would it require source to some closed things? | 13:30 |
| akshey | alterego: thanks for the answer | 13:30 |
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| alterego | BCMM: I'd be interested to know the answers to those questions myself as I don't know how video calling wroks tbh. would be nice if it was possible, I'd imagine it will be possible with MeeGo | 13:57 |
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| alterego | Also, I swear Nokia were more prompt releasing the fremantle sdk, where's the Harmattan SDK?!? :) | 14:00 |
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| * SpeedEvil notes from the (way) above discussion that silent answerphone type functionality would be entirely possible. | 14:00 | |
| SpeedEvil | As if the cellmo is solely connected over a databus, you can easily ham a recorder/playback thingy in tehre. | 14:00 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: are you talking about having the phone itself answer calls and take messages? | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 14:00 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: that would be really nice | 14:01 |
| BCMM | there is a thing that i think phones should do, that i have never heard of: | 14:01 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: that's on my list of apps todo actually, should be pretty easy. | 14:01 |
| BCMM | answer a call, play a message saying "i'm in a restaurant, press 1 if my parents died or something, otherwise hang up" | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm not sure how muhc the stack will get in the way. | 14:01 |
| alterego | BCMM: that's a neat idea. | 14:02 |
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| SpeedEvil | I suspect you may be working in the closed source bits, or at least replacing them in major ways. | 14:02 |
| BCMM | instantly solve the problem people leaving phones on in awkward situations in case something important happens | 14:02 |
| alterego | Also, half way through the month, nohandset UX yet :( | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | xterm isn't enough ux for you? | 14:03 |
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| crashanddie | I just have python running, and type my will directly into it, direct execution, no files, freedom. | 14:04 |
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| alterego | Heh | 14:04 |
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| crashanddie | it is the evolution of cat | gcc | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | cat|gcc is for the weak! | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | That reminds me. | 14:05 |
| * SpeedEvil goes back to working out why wpa_supplicant isn't linking. | 14:05 | |
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| alterego | "Nokia values your opinion, please reply with SURVEY?" :D | 14:05 |
| alterego | Weird SMS's | 14:06 |
| BCMM | alterego: i just got that too | 14:06 |
| alterego | :) | 14:06 |
| BCMM | i though mass-spamming sms took longer than that... | 14:06 |
| BCMM | unless we are actually the first two | 14:06 |
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| BCMM | anyone have any reason to believe that 84000 is actually nokia? | 14:07 |
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| BCMM | (apart from the way they know i have an n900) | 14:07 |
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| alterego | Looking at MeeGo/Maemo gitorious, lots of nice activity going on, they're certainly looing busy at least. | 14:07 |
| alterego | BCMM: apart from that? Nope, but they're probably the only ones that would ... | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: It is | 14:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | you're in the UK alterego? | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: rather | 14:09 |
| alterego | "MeeGo Kernel Bot" okay, maybe there aren't actually any busy devs :D | 14:09 |
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| alterego | SpeedEvil: indeed. | 14:09 |
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| Stskeeps | what, we have a kernel bot? | 14:09 |
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| alterego | Stskeeps: looks like it applys upstream patches to their tree. | 14:10 |
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| BCMM | i replied and they didn't send anything yet | 14:10 |
| kirma | alterego: sounds suspiciously like a lure to send a specially charged message so that someone can extract profit from it | 14:10 |
| alterego | Actually, looks like it does a bit more than that, interesting. BCMM me too, not got a reply either. | 14:11 |
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| BCMM | anyone done that survey before and know what they ask? | 14:11 |
| alterego | I'll check my bill and see if that costed me like 50 quid :D | 14:11 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10506 | 14:12 |
| povbot | Bug 10506: 'My nokia' unsubscribe attempt costs money. This is in breach of the UK regulations on premium rate texts. | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | This is as I understand a premium rate text number. | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | And you have not been informed about the costs. | 14:12 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: said local rate in the text | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | It costs 10p | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | this does not make it not premium in terms of the regulations as I understand it. | 14:13 |
| alterego | ghey, not part of my inclusive texts then ... | 14:13 |
| alterego | Why can't the susidise it or something, freakin' idiots. | 14:13 |
| BCMM | "local sms cost" means "not included in your free texts"? | 14:13 |
| alterego | BCMM: I don't think it means anything :P | 14:14 |
| BCMM | i presumed it meant "normal sms cost" | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand it also - SMSs from 84000 will cost you money. | 14:14 |
| BCMM | hmm, that would anger me | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Still only 10p. But... | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | See above bug | 14:15 |
| BCMM | why are incomming messages even allowed to cost money? | 14:15 |
| alterego | Yeah, | 14:15 |
| BCMM | i mean, i know that happens all the time in the US | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | I believe the above facts are also related to ongoing my nokia subscriptions. | 14:15 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: Premium rate SMSs can. They have all sorts of regulations round them. In principle, they are required to do all sorts of things to tell you about the price | 14:16 |
| alterego | just got the reply / | 14:19 |
| alterego | would you recommend to a friend 0-9 :) | 14:20 |
| alterego | answer: 0 | 14:20 |
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| alterego | hah, there's no, "depends on friend" option | 14:20 |
| PBeck | alterego: i have wrote a mail to the pymaemo list - perhaps they can help me. Thank you for your help | 14:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | Yeah. | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | A friend that uses linux - sure! | 14:23 |
| alterego | Well, I think there are more aspects to it than just the Linux point. | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | lipe: | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 14:24 |
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| pigeon | has anyone used the share via service to upload video onto facebook? | 14:37 |
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| ghostcube | sup peoples? | 14:37 |
| PBeck | pigeon: facebook is evil ;) | 14:37 |
| pigeon | yeah, it is... | 14:37 |
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| ghostcube | failbook!!! | 14:37 |
| ghostcube | :) | 14:38 |
| Appiah | the internet is evil | 14:38 |
| ghostcube | nah only the flash internet is evil | 14:38 |
| ghostcube | -.- | 14:38 |
| pigeon | anyway, it is uploaded but it just doesn't show up anywhere. | 14:38 |
| Appiah | flash and lolcats | 14:38 |
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| ghostcube | heh | 14:38 |
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| pigeon | it's just a bit annoying there's no error messages or anything. | 14:41 |
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| flailingmonkey | ~seen mece | 14:43 |
| infobot | mece <~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 52s ago, saying: 'heh, http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_years/2010_1/windows-poor-dotnet-install.png'. | 14:43 |
| timeless_mbp | hrm | 14:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i got a conflict updating mappero | 14:44 |
| timeless_mbp | EWTF | 14:44 |
| timeless_mbp | where do Mappero bugs go? | 14:44 |
| flailingmonkey | no bugzilla I presume? | 14:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/maemo-mapper/ | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | the bugzilla? | 14:46 |
| * timeless_mbp grumbles | 14:47 | |
| timeless_mbp | it uses garage | 14:47 |
| pigeon | hmm, that's weird, for some reason from the file manager, i can't delete/move any files, the action is not there in the pop up. | 14:50 |
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| pigeon | for files on the mmc card only it seems. | 14:50 |
| auenfx4 | fat32? | 14:51 |
| pigeon | yeah, the default. | 14:51 |
| pigeon | i wish i could use ext2 with it auto mounted | 14:52 |
| auenfx4 | delete doesnt show up for me, copy does | 14:52 |
| auenfx4 | move doesnt show up either | 14:53 |
| pigeon | yeah, but why? | 14:53 |
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| pigeon | i can delete if i use the top drop down menu | 14:54 |
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| auenfx4 | bug 6791 | 14:54 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6791 "Delete" and "Move" context menu entries missing for files on memory card | 14:54 |
| pigeon | ah | 14:54 |
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| * MohammadAG slaps frals with a TypeError: run() takes no arguments (1 given) | 14:56 | |
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| vldcnst | X-Fade: here? | 14:56 |
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| mintux1 | sometimes when i open a image and rotae 90 degree my image rotate but sometimes not.how can i open picture always rotate when phone rotate? | 14:59 |
| alterego | God, why isn't mafw documented ... at all, I can't find any api docs. | 15:00 |
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| mintux1 | no soulotion | 15:06 |
| plastun | how to make each row of TouchSelector multilined? couse my text doesnt fit | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | \n in the string doesn't work | 15:10 |
| plastun | \n is not good way, I don't know real text length and row width | 15:10 |
| mintux1 | why photo sometimes rotate with rotate phone sometimes not? | 15:11 |
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| Appiah | bad sensor perhaps? | 15:13 |
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| mintux1 | no my phone sensor works correctly in game in dial but in photo viewer i dont know how open image that can be rotate is it image viewer bug? | 15:14 |
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| * Mece is very impressed how god my n900 is for watching the world cup. thanks yle for that. | 15:30 | |
| flailingmonkey | hey mece. what ever happened with your filemanager | 15:31 |
| Mece | oh, it's somewhere.. search the irc history for hedwerks and you will find the url | 15:33 |
| Venemo | hey guys | 15:33 |
| joga | Mece: thru areena? | 15:34 |
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| Venemo | I'm looking for someone who has some knowledge about X and Hildon | 15:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | The N9 has Android touch buttons. . . . | 15:34 |
| vldcnst | Mece: hows the quality? | 15:34 |
| joga | Venemo: many have but it's better to ask a specific question for them to react... | 15:34 |
| Venemo | okay | 15:34 |
| Venemo | thanks, joga :) | 15:34 |
| Venemo | so, I'm creating a Qt application which uses X directly and creates a homescreen widget on the current desktop | 15:35 |
| Venemo | here is the code: | 15:35 |
| Venemo | http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/eve-watcher/trunk/source/QtExtensions/qmaemo5dynamichomescreenwidget.cpp | 15:35 |
| Venemo | and now the issue: | 15:35 |
| Mece | quality is excellent, framerate not perfect, but definately enough to be watchable. 10-15ish I think. | 15:35 |
| flailingmonkey | yle won't help me here in USA :-p | 15:35 |
| Venemo | it always adds the widgets to the current desktop | 15:36 |
| vldcnst | Mece: can I pm you? | 15:36 |
| Venemo | and I would like to have a way of 1) telling which desktop it is on 2) telling Hildon which desktop should it add the widget to | 15:36 |
| Mece | vldcnst, sure | 15:36 |
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| Mece | vldcnst, what about? | 15:38 |
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| Venemo | joga: any clues? | 15:38 |
| flailingmonkey | ah, so you are the one working on eve-watcher. I'm surprised there aren't more apps to support MMO players | 15:39 |
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| Venemo | flailingmonkey: where have you heard about eve-watcher? :P | 15:40 |
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| Appiah | eve-watcher O_o | 15:40 |
| Appiah | is that like mEvemon ? | 15:41 |
| Venemo | yes, only better | 15:41 |
| Venemo | except that it is still under development | 15:41 |
| Appiah | what can eve-watcher do that evemon cant? | 15:41 |
| Venemo | it can put widgets on your desktop | 15:41 |
| Venemo | for as many characters as you want :) | 15:41 |
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| Appiah | so its a eve monitor with widgets? | 15:42 |
| pigeon | that was fun, i just turned on the world cup widget for minute or so and got a goal | 15:42 |
| Venemo | also, it displays notifications (sms/email style) if your skill training is complete | 15:42 |
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| pigeon | own goal too :) | 15:42 |
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| Appiah | but basiclly is same functionality like Evemon/Gtkevemon | 15:42 |
| Venemo | it will also have a skill planner | 15:42 |
| Appiah | watching your skills / skill planing? | 15:42 |
| Venemo | yes, with a few personal touches :) | 15:42 |
| Venemo | like portrait mode support and stuff like that | 15:43 |
| Mece | wow.. I increased font in xchat, and now I can read xchat and watch football in the multitasking window! | 15:43 |
| flailingmonkey | basically its going to be sexy | 15:43 |
| joga | Venemo: sorry I'm on metro and haven't rally coded with qt myself | 15:43 |
| Appiah | oki | 15:43 |
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| Appiah | So I'm gonna have 2 eve apps to try | 15:43 |
| Appiah | yay | 15:44 |
| Venemo | joga: you're not needed to code with qt | 15:44 |
| Venemo | just tell me what should I tell to X to make it do what I want :) | 15:44 |
| flailingmonkey | i can't think of any other program that adds widgets to the desktop, rather than having the user add them | 15:44 |
| guysoft42 | hi all, some developer i know wrote a maemo app in qt creator, is there a way for him to automatically package the program in a deb package? | 15:44 |
| flailingmonkey | thats a unique feature | 15:44 |
| joga | Venemo: sorry, hard to find out with my net buggin out every minute ;) | 15:45 |
| Venemo | np | 15:45 |
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| BCMM | Mece: what is "the multitasking window"? | 15:45 |
| Venemo | joga: still, if you have better circumstances, could you please contact me? | 15:45 |
| joga | if there aren't people who know here (now), maybe forums are better | 15:45 |
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| Venemo | flailingmonkey: thanks for your support :) | 15:46 |
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| Appiah | well I'd be happy to try that app out | 15:48 |
| Mece | BCMM, the window with the thumbnails of apps running. dunno what it's called | 15:49 |
| BCMM | Mece: oh, the task switching thing | 15:49 |
| Mece | ye. | 15:49 |
| Venemo | Mece: it is called the "dashboard" | 15:49 |
| BCMM | Mece: i thought you were saying there was a WM available to let you view more than one window at once | 15:49 |
| Mece | right, thanks. | 15:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | li: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=714386#post714386 | 15:50 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 15:50 |
| SpeedEvil | nvm | 15:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - if anyone wants a wpa_supplicant binary - see the aove post | 15:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | It seems the original questioner has wandered off in the intervening 1000 minutes. | 15:51 |
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| Venemo | :D | 15:51 |
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| Mece_ | oops.. apparently that wlan's range was not as long as I suspected. | 16:01 |
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| Venemo | :D | 16:02 |
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| Khertan_ | Hi ! | 16:03 |
| Venemo | hi | 16:03 |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, ping timeout, I think. | 16:06 |
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| Khertan_ | I've a question ... some users have problems with some of my apps ... as packages are available in extras, HAM simply ignore my packages in my own repository even if package are more recent ... | 16:08 |
| Khertan_ | i didn't see many way to avoid that : | 16:08 |
| Khertan_ | 1/ Said to user to launch xterm and type : apt-get upgrade | 16:08 |
| Khertan_ | 2/ Said to user to download and install the package manually from deb | 16:09 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm unsure if you can push newer versions of libs into extras-devel | 16:09 |
| Mece_ | flailingmonkey, did you find the filemanager lib? | 16:09 |
| Khertan_ | so i got bug report for old version and already fixed bugs | 16:10 |
| Mece_ | Khertan_, are we talking about libs? | 16:10 |
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| Khertan_ | Mece_: nop | 16:10 |
| Venemo | Khertan_: apt-get update before apt-get upgrade | 16:10 |
| Khertan_ | This happen for any packages from external repository | 16:11 |
| Khertan_ | Venemo: yes ... i know ... but ... many user didn't do apt-get upgrade and just wait for HAM update notification | 16:11 |
| Khertan_ | which didn't happen | 16:11 |
| Mece_ | Khertan_, ok. perhaps rename the package then? that would solve this. | 16:12 |
| GAN900 | Khertan_, obviously a good reason to not run and play with your toys somewhere else but help us get Extras working better. . . . | 16:12 |
| Khertan_ | GAN900: HAHA ! | 16:12 |
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| Mece_ | 2-0 | 16:12 |
| Khertan_ | Mece_: yep ... rename is the easier solution i think | 16:12 |
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| Mece_ | Khertan_, why did you move away from extras anyway? | 16:13 |
| Khertan_ | Mece_: full of bugs ... QA Testing borring me ... and things like that | 16:13 |
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| Khertan_ | Mece_: try to push a non-free apps ... or try to push a fix for apps available in extras ... it s a require more time than fixing the bugs | 16:14 |
| Khertan_ | Mece_: require to found 10 users | 16:14 |
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| Khertan_ | to test and report it | 16:15 |
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| Khertan_ | and i got so many thumb down due to bug in web package interface | 16:15 |
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| Khertan_ | that i lost any hope in this repository | 16:15 |
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| GAN900 | Basically, take toys play elsewhere. | 16:20 |
| GAN900 | Did you file those bugs? | 16:20 |
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| Mece_ | Khertan_, but your logic with the QA is flawed. From a users pov your apps are now at a less reliable place than even devel. | 16:23 |
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| alterego | Mece_: is that the case with Opera too? :P | 16:26 |
| alterego | With a one click installer link I don't think a user will care ... | 16:26 |
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| Khertan_ | GAN900: yep ... still open i think | 16:27 |
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| GAN900 | alterego, except for the fact that they don't need to do anything to install from Extras | 16:28 |
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| Khertan_ | GAN900: everythings reported was : not fixed, won't fix, not reproductible ... so i didn't bother anymore with reporting things now | 16:28 |
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| GAN900 | Nobody has bothered helping X-Fade with the development load | 16:28 |
| GAN900 | So I can't say I'm surprised. | 16:28 |
| GAN900 | alterego, do you still need a loaner? | 16:28 |
| Khertan_ | GAN900: and how can we help ? | 16:28 |
| Khertan_ | where is src ... ? | 16:29 |
| Khertan_ | Mece_: using a external third party repository could work if HAM didn't ignore package from external that are already in extras, or if my packages was removed from extras | 16:30 |
| Khertan_ | alterego: the one click installer could be HAM ... if my packages wasn't in Extras ;) | 16:31 |
| Khertan_ | circling | 16:31 |
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| alterego | GAN900: No, I got a device in the end. Why have you heard any news? | 16:32 |
| Khertan_ | s/circling/looping | 16:32 |
| GAN900 | Khertan_, Garage | 16:32 |
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| GAN900 | alterego, no, but the queue is moving, your name is on it. | 16:32 |
| GAN900 | I sent you an email two weeks ago about it. | 16:33 |
| Khertan_ | GAN900: garage or my own website is the same ... | 16:33 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN900: Any progress on tracking numbers, or ... ? | 16:33 |
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| alterego | GAN900: ah, okay, I'll remove my name then :) | 16:34 |
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| Razzo78 | hi! | 16:37 |
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| Razzo78 | anyone know when will come new applications on ovi store | 16:39 |
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| Khertan_ | Hum ... December 2045 | 16:39 |
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| Razzo78 | so soon? | 16:40 |
| Khertan_ | GAN900: So did you suggest me to recreate an garage account and ask right again for uploading to devel then flood bugs.maemo.org and after ask for right to help to debug things ? | 16:40 |
| Khertan_ | Razzo78: maybe a year latter ... | 16:40 |
| Khertan_ | Razzo78: only a few publisher can pusblish app to ovistore ... it s not open to all developpers ... so there is few chance to see many new apps on it | 16:41 |
| Razzo78 | but if the world ends in 2010 .. | 16:41 |
| Razzo78 | 2012 | 16:42 |
| Khertan_ | but you will see many new apps in the community repository i think | 16:42 |
| Khertan_ | (#extras) | 16:42 |
| flailingmonkey | do we know which Nokian(s) manage Ovi Store? I have a feeling Maemo (and in the future, Meego) influence is very weak there | 16:42 |
| jacekowski | it would be very evil to create alternative to ovi store | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyone can publish to ovi store. | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand it. | 16:42 |
| SpeedEvil | However, the process is not easy, or perhaps cheap | 16:42 |
| hardaker | I really really wish that they would have an OVI store that wasn't HTML based... sigh... | 16:43 |
| flailingmonkey | Offscreen is like 75% of ovi store :-( | 16:43 |
| Khertan_ | SpeedEvil: you can't until you didn't have a VAT | 16:43 |
| Khertan_ | SpeedEvil: so not everyone | 16:43 |
| flailingmonkey | I also wish that HAM allowed ratings, comments and bug ticket creation | 16:43 |
| Khertan_ | SpeedEvil: you can't until you have a VAT | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyone can have a VAT number. | 16:44 |
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| flailingmonkey | and some damn screenshots | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | I diddn't say it was free to set it up. | 16:44 |
| Khertan_ | SpeedEvil: yep ... require you to create a company | 16:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Setting up a small company is generally not onerous. | 16:44 |
| Khertan_ | but not all company have a vat | 16:44 |
| jacekowski | Khertan_: in UK it's couple phone calls | 16:45 |
| Khertan_ | jacekowski: in france it s 10 000 euros | 16:45 |
| alterego | in England, most companies bringing in less than 50k are not VAT registered. | 16:45 |
| jacekowski | Khertan_: WTF? | 16:45 |
| Khertan_ | 8000 to be exact | 16:45 |
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| jacekowski | Khertan_: it's free here, and you don't have to pay anything for a year | 16:45 |
| Khertan_ | sarl and sa have a vat | 16:45 |
| Khertan_ | you can create you company for free in france ... but you didn't have a vat | 16:46 |
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| Robot101 | alterego: that's not quite true - it's just not required. if you sell to or buy from big businesses, it's very poor form (or a waste of money) not to have a number | 16:46 |
| jacekowski | and you are not required to do any paperwork for 3 or 6 month | 16:46 |
| jacekowski | months* | 16:46 |
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| Khertan_ | so to be short, it s not open to everyone | 16:46 |
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| alterego | Robot101: what's untrue about my statement? It's a statistic which is true ... | 16:47 |
| alterego | Robot101: what you're saying doesn't negate what I said at all. :P | 16:47 |
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| Robot101 | alterego: I think a lot of companies which intend to grow to a non-trivial size, even when <50k, would register for VAT early | 16:47 |
| Khertan_ | alterego: he didn't say it's false ... just not quite true | 16:47 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 16:47 |
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| alterego | Robot101: I don't agree, but I don't have facts to back that up, just my previous experience with start ups | 16:49 |
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| alterego | I'd image that has a lot to do with initial funding. Someone starting out on a limited budget wont fork out the 50 quid or whatever just for the sake of it. | 16:50 |
| flailingmonkey | The Ovi store obviously wants to have paid content, so they have missed a chance to get developers into the system with free content | 16:51 |
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| Khertan_ | OHOHOHOHOHO :::::: look this thread on the nokia forum : http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?201497-VAT-number-for-hobby-projects.&p=742960&viewfull=1#post742960 | 16:51 |
| nidO | taking their sweet time about it | 16:52 |
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| flailingmonkey | they should have made it easy to start, and require the extra work when you want to submit paid content | 16:52 |
| Khertan_ | they are currently working on made ovi available also to third party developpers | 16:53 |
| flailingmonkey | who? | 16:53 |
| alterego | sweet | 16:53 |
| Venemo | xD | 16:53 |
| Venemo | the question is: who cares? | 16:54 |
| Khertan_ | flailingmonkey: nokia | 16:54 |
| Venemo | the Extras repos have everything | 16:54 |
| alterego | Guess there's no need for the maemo community store now :) | 16:54 |
| Khertan_ | Venemo: false | 16:54 |
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| Venemo | Khertan: care to elaborate? | 16:54 |
| alterego | Venemo: there are a fair few of us that want to develop paid for content tbh. | 16:55 |
| nidO | Extras is a great source for community-written stuff but it completely precludes the entire commercial side of application development | 16:55 |
| Venemo | well, that is understandable | 16:55 |
| flailingmonkey | community store will bring more developers than ovi store, because its progress will be more transparent | 16:55 |
| Khertan_ | Venemo: maemo extra didn't have khteditor, new version of pygtkeditor, new version of pypackager | 16:55 |
| nidO | for which the ovi store being non-shit is badly needed | 16:55 |
| alterego | Especially now I don't have a job :) | 16:55 |
| Venemo | still, there are ways to publish paid apps | 16:55 |
| cehteh | is there any commercial side? | 16:55 |
| Venemo | like Sygic | 16:55 |
| cehteh | for the n900.. | 16:55 |
| Venemo | they did it without the Ovi Store | 16:55 |
| cehteh | anything which gets comercially developed gets a free clone soonafter :P | 16:56 |
| Khertan_ | Venemo: i did for VectorMine too withotu Ovi Store ... | 16:56 |
| Appiah | cehteh: really? | 16:56 |
| flailingmonkey | ovi store had a decent chance but Nokia PR and Nokia development seem to hate each other | 16:56 |
| cehteh | well most things | 16:56 |
| Appiah | then tell me when there's free turnbyturn for the n900 | 16:56 |
| alterego | Venemo: pointless and hackish. I'm not setting up a stupid web page just for an app. | 16:56 |
| Appiah | :D | 16:56 |
| Venemo | flailingmonkey: so it seems | 16:56 |
| cehteh | at least the useful things | 16:56 |
| Khertan_ | Venemo: but s it s require you to make many ads ... as before users need to setup your repository in your phone | 16:56 |
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| Khertan_ | Venemo: but s it s require you to make many ads ... as before users need to setup your repository in their phone | 16:57 |
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| Venemo | Khertan_: true, sadly | 16:58 |
| flailingmonkey | I am in support of community store | 16:58 |
| alterego | There's also the issue with piracy, ovi is a bit more protective. | 16:58 |
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| alterego | Though uploading non-free apps, with maybe a demo mode and then registration support might work. | 16:59 |
| lcuk | a place where open source community apps can be obtained for devices (ala extras) is a must have important part of Open Source. | 16:59 |
| Khertan_ | Venemo: and there is worst problem, if you have try to publish it before to maemo repository, Hildon Application Manager will ignore all package (even newer) from external repository if there is an older version in extras | 16:59 |
| flailingmonkey | until I can get someone on Ovi store team onto forum/irc, I'm not going to expect much improvement from them | 16:59 |
| lcuk | forgetting any monetary concerns, if we cant have open source on our handsets build from open source theres something wrong! | 17:00 |
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| Venemo | lcuk: that's right | 17:00 |
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| flailingmonkey | lcuk, extras should still exist, but adding the ability to donate from HAM for example would be a major feature to support open source development | 17:02 |
| lcuk | sure but how do you balance that - i write a simple wrapper app around already existing libraries who gets the spoils | 17:03 |
| lcuk | do we enumerate the developers of all the components in the stack and share the money accordingly (in which case linus gets a couple of cents for each app) | 17:04 |
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| flailingmonkey | lcuk, it really works just the same as when people go to a donate link in some random t.m.o thread | 17:05 |
| nidO | thatd be fun to manage, call about 15 deps then have to split a $1 donation 800 ways | 17:05 |
| lcuk | flailingmonkey, sure | 17:05 |
| pupnik | don't try to engineer everything. donations and gifts particularly should be left to the discretion of the giver | 17:05 |
| lcuk | indeed pupnik | 17:05 |
| lcuk | thats how it is at the moment | 17:05 |
| * Khertan_ thinks it s look like more a polite way to say : we will not do it ! | 17:06 | |
| Khertan_ | :) | 17:06 |
| lcuk | if someone wants to add a donation link in their about screen (we have a really nice boiler plate for one) then they can | 17:06 |
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| lcuk | Khertan_, its not wanting to do it, its a difficult problem! | 17:06 |
| Khertan_ | lcuk: yep ... i know | 17:06 |
| lcuk | your pushing is making people question it lots - you are a pioneer really :) | 17:07 |
| Khertan_ | specially if we want everythings done automatically | 17:07 |
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| Khertan_ | lol ... | 17:07 |
| alterego | lcuk: Linus didn't help you write your app. Why are you counting the kernel? Or are you talking about a Kernel module? :P | 17:09 |
| flailingmonkey | indeed it is difficult. In general, HAM is in a position where improvements to the app browsing, fetching and installing would be natural | 17:09 |
| lcuk | alterego, without linux your app wouldnt run | 17:09 |
| lcuk | or are we all on solaris or some other kernel now? | 17:10 |
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| alterego | lcuk: well, that's not true. My apps should be pretty XP. | 17:10 |
| alterego | And Linux is a POSIX clone :P | 17:10 |
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| lcuk | new code though | 17:10 |
| alterego | s/clone/instance?/ | 17:10 |
| infobot | alterego meant: And Linux is a POSIX instance? :P | 17:10 |
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| lcuk | right, thats it, we need to retro actively divert funds to babbages family. | 17:11 |
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| lcuk | and does anyone know the inventor of the abacus :D | 17:12 |
| alterego | With the exception of a couple of kernel drivers and some user space server management tools. there's not a lot I've written that's been platform specific, in fact I definitely try not to be :P | 17:12 |
| alterego | Hahah | 17:12 |
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| alterego | You're forgetting Nokia for roviding our platform? :P | 17:12 |
| flailingmonkey | what would people like to see in HAM | 17:12 |
| alterego | It should be up to them to split their share wsith their platform components and heritage. | 17:13 |
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| nidO | my wish list basically just extends to multi install/removal and being less painfully slow | 17:13 |
| alterego | You should just worry about the one above, a bubble up approach :) | 17:13 |
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| flailingmonkey | as for donations, I frankly do not like paypal, which is why Ovi Store seemed promising as Nokia basically implemented their own payment system | 17:16 |
| nidO | frankly though it wouldnt be asking a lot to make paypal an option, which a lot of people do want/need to use | 17:16 |
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| alterego | flailingmonkey: for me, it's easier as it's more integrated into the phone (well not really but you get my point ;) | 17:17 |
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| flailingmonkey | alterego, what do mean by integrated | 17:18 |
| GAN900 | alterego, I can do that, just checking if you still need. ;) | 17:20 |
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| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, no, emailed Quim last Thursday and haven't heard back. | 17:21 |
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| flailingmonkey | alterego, do you mean HAM or paypal is more integrated | 17:23 |
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| crashanddie | if anyone isn't aware, one of the major fights at the moment is mobile payment. A lot of people in the financial industry believes that combining a payment method inside a phone would have a massive market | 17:26 |
| alterego | GAN900: Well, I can always do with another one ;) as my N900 is my primary and it'd be nice to not be completely paranoid of blowing the thing up with my hacking :) | 17:26 |
| alterego | GAN900: but no, I don't expect one anymore :) | 17:26 |
| alterego | flailingmonkey: ovi | 17:26 |
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| talmai | hello. does anyone have experience with qt's input method hints inside webview on maemo | 17:28 |
| flailingmonkey | crashanddie, most definitely | 17:28 |
| flailingmonkey | alterego, from the forum link Khertan_ posted it is plain that Ovi Store does not plan to support independent developers at this time | 17:30 |
| alterego | flailingmonkey: I was saying that I agree, paypal isn't as good an option as Ovi, from a UX perspective .. | 17:30 |
| Khertan_ | lcuk: i've still a abaccus somewhere :) | 17:30 |
| talmai | i have a text input field in HTML that should receive only digits and i don't know how to implement it to work in all localisations (so i cant just convert character "q" to number 1 etc. with javascript) | 17:30 |
| crashanddie | salut Khertan_ | 17:30 |
| Khertan_ | 'lu crashanddie | 17:30 |
| flailingmonkey | alterego, yeah, its a bummer that its not more suitable :-/ | 17:30 |
| alterego | flailingmonkey: should we start a maemo.org foundation which is tax registered that we all can use to promote extras apps then? | 17:31 |
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| flailingmonkey | alterego, its an approach, but the overhead would probably be way too much of a strain | 17:32 |
| Khertan_ | talmai: if i remember well webview use webkit, wich support html5 : so just use <input type=number> | 17:32 |
| alterego | Has anyone explored this possibility, I know there is discussion about maemo select apps being pushed into Ovi, but this is a different issue all together, how about a maemo.org foundation that can be used to push maemo extras apps into Ovi and accept payment? | 17:32 |
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| alterego | flailingmonkey: still, it might be worth at least a discussion :) | 17:33 |
| flailingmonkey | alterego, ah now I see what you mean. quite clever actually | 17:33 |
| alterego | I've not heard anyone pitch the idea, seems like an interesting proposal :) | 17:34 |
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| flailingmonkey | I suspect that paid maemo.org members would need new help to work on such a thing. hopefully the extra (hah) work can be seriously considered | 17:36 |
| alterego | I might attempt to start a discussion on t.m.o | 17:36 |
| alterego | Well, I need a job ;) | 17:36 |
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| flailingmonkey | so goes qole | 17:37 |
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| crashanddie | and so does I | 17:38 |
| alterego | flailingmonkey: ? | 17:38 |
| Khertan_ | alterego: hum ... starting a discussion on talking is maybe not the best place ... i suggest you to launch it on the mailing list | 17:38 |
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| crashanddie | alterego: qole just posted a thread on tmo because he's looking for a job | 17:38 |
| Khertan_ | s/talking/talk | 17:38 |
| flailingmonkey | maemo.org could stand to have some more independence, and it might help if that includes some financial independence too | 17:38 |
| alterego | Khertan_: okay, does anyone want to do it on my behalf? :P | 17:38 |
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| alterego | I'm somewhat away from keyboard at the mo. | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_: pas envie qu'on commence une boite de dev ensemble? | 17:39 |
| Khertan_ | crashanddie: pour faire quoi ? | 17:39 |
| sivang | re all | 17:39 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_: du dev? :D | 17:39 |
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| Khertan_ | crashanddie: ah bah ... oui ... mais... faut des clients derrière et des projets qui se vendent :) | 17:40 |
| crashanddie | des details ca | 17:40 |
| crashanddie | anyone feeling like starting a maemo company? | 17:40 |
| flailingmonkey | i'm surprised I remember as much french as I do | 17:40 |
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| Khertan_ | ouais ... parceque je suis déjà auto entrepreneur ... et déjà ca, ca n'aboutit à rien :) | 17:41 |
| crashanddie | We'll live off paypal donations and n900-love. | 17:41 |
| Khertan_ | lol good luck :) | 17:41 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles will be our Steve Jobs, and Nokia our Google. | 17:41 |
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| flailingmonkey | hehehe | 17:41 |
| crashanddie | and qole our Wozniack | 17:42 |
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| Khertan_ | and who will be Shantanu Narayen ? | 17:43 |
| Khertan_ | (adobe ceo) | 17:43 |
| flailingmonkey | Shantanu Narayen will do a cameo appearance | 17:44 |
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| crashanddie | Khertan_: lcuk :D | 17:44 |
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| flailingmonkey | good call :-P | 17:45 |
| crashanddie | Khertan_: he'll be yelling that liqbase apps would have been a great thing, but GeneralAntilles will only accept Qt-powered apps. | 17:45 |
| crashanddie | then lcuk will write a liqbase to qt converter, but we'll manage to ban those too. | 17:46 |
| alterego | Hahah | 17:46 |
| alterego | I like this, you should do a comic sketch :P | 17:47 |
| alterego | maemo.org parallel universes :P | 17:47 |
| crashanddie | Lol... Maemo-story at Wembley Arena. Special appearance by Texrat. | 17:48 |
| flailingmonkey | one where maemo is the WinMo of mobile OSes (when no open source was pursued :-P) | 17:48 |
| crashanddie | And timeless would be heckling me continuously. "That's not how it happened" | 17:48 |
| Khertan_ | lol | 17:48 |
| * timeless_mbp looks up | 17:49 | |
| lcuk | crashanddie, but in that you get to be the sweaty monkey ranting and throwing chairs :P | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | :D | 17:49 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: oh come on, at least admit I managed to unhook a smile off ya :P | 17:49 |
| flailingmonkey | one where maemo is the iOS of phone OSes (nokia goes crazy, stops caring about the low end markets and pours its resources into maemo) | 17:49 |
| lcuk | anyway >> gone | 17:49 |
| lcuk | no | 17:49 |
| alterego | heh, abill_uk always manages to form a crowd :D | 17:49 |
| crashanddie | :( | 17:49 |
| lcuk | i think its a sizable problem about donations and code contributions | 17:50 |
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| flailingmonkey | I think being able to integrate the content from downloads.maemo.org (or packages?) into HAM would also improve the app experience | 17:51 |
| crashanddie | well, I've always wanted to see a community-written HAM | 17:52 |
| crashanddie | HAM has always been limited -- GeneralAntilles has put together plenty of ideas, but it's never been done. | 17:52 |
| alterego | flailingmonkey: I think someone is/was doing that, things like ratings and screenshot right? | 17:52 |
| flailingmonkey | even being able to select the developers name to see their user page (which could have a donate link on it) | 17:53 |
| alterego | I'm still pissed at the ammount of bloody themes in extras! :P | 17:53 |
| crashanddie | HAM needs to be dynamic. I don't go to maemo.org downloads, I browse HAM. I wanted to be prompted "based on your choices, you might be interested in "this" new app" | 17:53 |
| flailingmonkey | yeah, but HAM is open, on gitoreous | 17:53 |
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| crashanddie | flailingmonkey: and how many years before any code makes it to end-users? | 17:53 |
| flailingmonkey | so we shouldn't make something from scratch, we should extend it, either with a plugin interface or directly in the app | 17:54 |
| flailingmonkey | I'm going to break that whole mechanism anyway | 17:54 |
| alterego | You want HAM to be more like HAS (Hildon App Store) :P | 17:54 |
| alterego | You want ads, movies! | 17:54 |
| alterego | flashy banners! | 17:54 |
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| alterego | "GOOD MORNING flailingmonkey, WE THINK YOU SHOULD BUY THIS PENIS ENLARGER APP" :D | 17:55 |
| flailingmonkey | based on mece's work, I'm looking into how to replace any package in the "Maemo 5" firmware metapackage | 17:55 |
| alterego | jk btw :P | 17:55 |
| alterego | I know you'rehung like a donkey ;) | 17:55 |
| flailingmonkey | alterego, hey, they will be a hit in Ovi store :-P | 17:56 |
| alterego | Hahah | 17:56 |
| Khertan_ | flailingmonkey: it s open ... but you can't update it ... you can just fork it ! | 17:56 |
| Khertan_ | :) | 17:56 |
| flailingmonkey | s/they/that/ | 17:56 |
| infobot | flailingmonkey meant: alterego, hey, that will be a hit in Ovi store :-P | 17:56 |
| alterego | I see what you mean though, but apps/store it's all on Nokia this is their platform. | 17:56 |
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| alterego | I'd really like to develop a whizzy app store platform for maemo, but Nokia are doing it themselves, so what's the point? | 17:57 |
| alterego | Mine would be better though, | 17:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | alterego: that's not very hard =b | 17:58 |
| alterego | :D | 17:59 |
| frals | so err, how common it is not to have grounded power outlets in finnish apartments? | 17:59 |
| alterego | What if my killer app is an open store, I can distribute my store app on ovi store :P | 17:59 |
| alterego | I just want a small cut of all you guys sales. and I'll donate some of my profits to maemo.org :) | 18:00 |
| flailingmonkey | without any of the donations/paid apps parts, HAM updates would still greatly benefit development | 18:00 |
| alterego | flailingmonkey: HAM is dead anyway, we will probably be forced to maintain it eventually. | 18:01 |
| alterego | Though, whatabout MeeGo? | 18:01 |
| talmai | Khertan_: (about type="number") QWebView does not recognize type number, it's treated the same as type text :/ | 18:01 |
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| flailingmonkey | it will have QAM, Qt-App-Manager | 18:01 |
| xkr47-DI | frals, all older houses (>10-20 years) have grounded outlets only in kitchens & bathrooms | 18:01 |
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| Khertan_ | talmai: :( | 18:02 |
| frals | xkr47-DI: alright, cheers :) | 18:02 |
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| flailingmonkey | or something. I suspect they wouldn't have such a major component in anything but qt | 18:02 |
| xkr47-DI | frals, why ? :) | 18:02 |
| frals | looking for apartment in hel atm and two of the ones i looked at had a disturbing lack of grounded outlets where i would want them :;p | 18:03 |
| timeless_mbp | frals: did they have ungrounded outlets? | 18:04 |
| frals | yeah | 18:04 |
| timeless_mbp | wow | 18:04 |
| crashanddie | frals: I visited a flat on Saturday, there were 6 outlets in the kitchen, 2 in the living room, and 1 in the bedroom. | 18:04 |
| frals | or whatever they are called, the ones who arent 'schuko' plugs :p | 18:04 |
| xkr47-DI | frals, all new houses have grounded everywhere | 18:05 |
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| xkr47-DI | I must say I like the plugs they have in italy | 18:05 |
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| xkr47-DI | like a normal euro plug, but with a ground pin in the middle | 18:06 |
| xkr47-DI | they sold those with regular computer plugs in the other end.. felt like buying a bunch of those and an extension coord | 18:06 |
| xkr47-DI | take half the space, with the same functionality :) | 18:06 |
| xkr47-DI | </blop> | 18:07 |
| Khertan_ | in my house every plug was connected on the same 32 A (380V) fuse. I rebuilt everything | 18:07 |
| xkr47-DI | lol | 18:08 |
| nidO | everything on one 32a fuse? | 18:08 |
| xkr47-DI | 380V sounds strange | 18:08 |
| Khertan_ | yep on on 32A - 380V fuse yep | 18:08 |
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| nidO | thinking of flats, gotta tidy mine up :< | 18:09 |
| xkr47-DI | FlatTidyupReminderApp | 18:09 |
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| nidO | set to ring an alarm 4 hours before anytime the girlfriend's parents are due to show up. | 18:10 |
| penguinbait | I would prefer an app that tidyup itself, not remind me | 18:10 |
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| GAN900 | alterego, start working on app downloader. | 18:11 |
| GAN900 | alterego, they really need help. | 18:11 |
| alterego | nidO: hook that into a subdermal gps embedded in their poodle and a teleportation machine, sold, I'll buy it for 50 dollar | 18:11 |
| alterego | GAN900: how active is that project? | 18:11 |
| flailingmonkey | GAN900: thats the one with the screenshots/reviews, right? | 18:12 |
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| flailingmonkey | I think making comments about an app from an app manager would be great | 18:15 |
| flailingmonkey | and for testing, voting :-p | 18:15 |
| alterego | I'd prefer ratings, comments will get out-of-control ... | 18:16 |
| alterego | I want star ratings and screenshots and a seperate area for themes and art | 18:16 |
| xkr47-DI | agreed | 18:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | GAN900: Thanks. | 18:18 |
| flailingmonkey | yeah, "art" content definitely clutters up the app list right now, and in HAM its almost pointless since you can't see them | 18:18 |
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| Mece | the testing quarantine is 10 days, right? | 18:19 |
| flailingmonkey | perhaps a link to the app's download/package website to write reviews | 18:19 |
| Mece | flailingmonkey, que? | 18:19 |
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| GAN900 | alterego, X-Fade, danielwilms and somebody else. | 18:20 |
| Mece | soo.. I seem to have a problem that is beyond my skills to solve. | 18:21 |
| alterego | GAN900: I'll look into it Wednesday :) | 18:21 |
| Mece | I've got a build of wesnoth that works perfectly fine when compiled in scratchbox, but if Autobuilder builds it, the binary segfaults. | 18:22 |
| * alterego makes an appointment | 18:22 | |
| puphome | heh freenode doesn't filter ctrl-g | 18:22 |
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| Mece | puphome, what's ctrl-g? | 18:22 |
| GAN900 | alterego, cool. | 18:22 |
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| Mece | ahemm | 18:23 |
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| Mece | was it a dumb question I wonder.. | 18:23 |
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| Mece | X-Fade, ping? | 18:24 |
| flailingmonkey | mece, i have no idea either. | 18:24 |
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| Mece | flailingmonkey, did you find the filemanager thing? | 18:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | flailingmonkey: cuteftp? | 18:27 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 18:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | cuteexplorer | 18:27 |
| flailingmonkey | Mece, haven't searched the logs yet, but I will in a moment | 18:28 |
| Mece | Speedevil, I was referring to my modified libhildonfm2 | 18:28 |
| Mece | I'll give you the link, holdup | 18:29 |
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| flailingmonkey | mece, thanks | 18:29 |
| penguinbait | is Mece plural for Mice? | 18:29 |
| alterego | Hahah | 18:29 |
| SpeedEvil | Mece: Ah | 18:30 |
| flailingmonkey | multiple multiples of mice | 18:30 |
| flailingmonkey | a regiment really | 18:30 |
| penguinbait | Hey look, its mece's feces, not to be confused with reeses pieces ;) | 18:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Mece: I'm practically dead ATM. Spent 2 hours up a fucking tall ladder, with a hedgetrimmer | 18:30 |
| LinuxCode | SpeedEvil, dont even mention it | 18:30 |
| * LinuxCode has to do his | 18:30 | |
| LinuxCode | but birds are nesting | 18:30 |
| LinuxCode | best to do later this year | 18:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I have decided that it's evolution in action. | 18:31 |
| lcuk | if the birds are occupying the bushes, they should maintain it - drop them an official letter of eviction | 18:31 |
| SpeedEvil | If the birds can provide me with a time machine so I can do it 6 months ago, I am quite happy to do so. | 18:32 |
| SpeedEvil | This will lead eventually to birds evolving the ability to produce time machines. | 18:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is a net plus. | 18:32 |
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| lcuk | avine technology is far more advanced than ours | 18:32 |
| lcuk | after all, they have had personal flying cars for centuries | 18:33 |
| xkr47-DI | lol | 18:33 |
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| penguinbait | if they just had opposable thumb they would rule the world!!!!!!!! | 18:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Opposable left or right thumb? | 18:34 |
| Khertan_ | bye ! | 18:34 |
| penguinbait | thumbs :) | 18:34 |
| SpeedEvil | wwaaaaaaavvve | 18:35 |
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| alterego | Just found ctrl+n in microb, that's the only thing I kept having to un maximize for :D | 18:39 |
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| flailingmonkey | who uses shortcutd? | 18:49 |
| smhar | what is this rumor about N9? is it true? | 18:49 |
| korhojoa | maybe. D: | 18:49 |
| Mece | flailingmonkey, I do, I think. is it the one with camerabutton to taskswitcher? | 18:49 |
| alterego | smhar: what about N9? All I've heard is rumour about rumour :P | 18:50 |
| Mece | smhar, which rumor is that? | 18:50 |
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| smhar | alterego, korhojoa, it does not seem authentic to me.. but .... -maybe I am just hoping :-) http://www.nokian900applications.com/nokia-n9/ | 18:51 |
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| alterego | smhar: it's not authnentic, not until Nokia officially release some statement. | 18:52 |
| vldcnst | abill_uk ever comes here? | 18:52 |
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| alterego | Ignore crap like that :P | 18:52 |
| alterego | vldcnst: never seen him here ... (thankgod) | 18:53 |
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| alterego | I mean, unfortunately ... | 18:53 |
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| Mece | vldcnst, I hope not.. | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | vldcnst: if he showed up here he'd immediately piss off crashanddie for sure | 18:53 |
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| vldcnst | I agree. | 18:53 |
| vldcnst | Just wanted to test my new ignore script. | 18:54 |
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| Mece | hehehe | 18:54 |
| alterego | hahah | 18:54 |
| alterego | test it on me! :P | 18:54 |
| alterego | Your mom has crabs ... | 18:54 |
| alterego | did it work? | 18:54 |
| vldcnst | it only works with idiots. | 18:55 |
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| vldcnst | sorry :p | 18:55 |
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| alterego | I think I've found your first bug then :P | 18:55 |
| alterego | Might not detect minus IQ points :) | 18:55 |
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| alterego | vldcnst: have you been following his latest thread? | 18:56 |
| vldcnst | alterego: the n9 one? | 18:56 |
| alterego | I'd ignore him, but he doesn't really get to me. | 18:56 |
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| alterego | vldcnst: yeah, I've been trying to be civil in that one :) | 18:57 |
| vldcnst | alterego: I think he's funny. He's a good combo with microwave popcorn. | 18:57 |
| vldcnst | (funny in a bad way) | 18:57 |
| Mece | alterego, the most annoying thing about that guy is that he seems to try to do something constructive but fails so utterly on every level. | 18:57 |
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| alterego | I'm tswindell | 18:57 |
| alterego | Mece: you've noticed that too? Well, he is a really kick ass engineer :P | 18:58 |
| alterego | sir Engineer I believe he likes to be known :D | 18:58 |
| Mece | alterego, he has some strange deficiencies in his social skills. | 18:58 |
| alterego | Yeah, though I understand his blatherings, they still come across as nonsensical and eratic. | 18:59 |
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| Mece | alterego, well i understand what he means, he is just simply wrong in pretty much everything he says. | 19:00 |
| alterego | I think he's a kid, some young person that wants respect but is trying to hard I fear. | 19:00 |
| Mece | yeah, seems that way. | 19:00 |
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| alterego | We need to bring back the calm, so I've ecided I'm going to become maemo.orgs Mr Fonze. | 19:01 |
| vldcnst | It's sad that a kid like that could get so popular | 19:01 |
| vldcnst | Not that I envy his kind of popularity in any way, but still | 19:02 |
| alterego | I will be gate crashing a lot of threads over the next week as a social experiment to see if I can stabalize the newbies | 19:02 |
| benno2 | DocScrutinizer, Hi, did still not write the bug report, need to write a flexible, idiot proof (me knows better dev) app first. :) but at least when it comes to audio output (QAudioOutput) the latency is not that horrible (not stellar, but acceptable). | 19:02 |
| alterego | benno2: still probably begtter going direct to gst :P | 19:03 |
| vldcnst | (he himself has almost finished work on usb otg) < does he even know how to open a terminal? | 19:03 |
| benno2 | alterego, I am sceptical about that, since according to the docs, gst sits above pulse audio | 19:04 |
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| alterego | Heh, vldcnst try not to think about it and just wait and see, wait for his announcements ;) he said he's pretty much finished ... | 19:04 |
| vldcnst | alterego: right. | 19:04 |
| alterego | benno2: well, to the side really | 19:04 |
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| Mece | vldcnst, he is not popular. he is known and unpopular. | 19:05 |
| alterego | benno2: you need to play nice with pulse to maintain phone function though .. | 19:05 |
| benno2 | alterego, interesting. so what audio interface does gst use ? | 19:05 |
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| Mece | also I think many will agree that he is the most annoying person currently active on tmo. | 19:06 |
| xkr47-DI | tmo = ? | 19:06 |
| Mece | gst as in gstreamer? | 19:06 |
| vldcnst | talk maemo org ? | 19:06 |
| Mece | talk | 19:06 |
| xkr47-DI | trackmania original :D | 19:06 |
| Mece | ~tmo | 19:06 |
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| Mece | hmm | 19:07 |
| Mece | what's infobot? | 19:07 |
| alterego | benno2: oh that platform generally uses pulse for mixing channels and sharing audio input and output. gstreamer, when used directly, will use whatever you tell it to use by constructing the correct pipeline. | 19:07 |
| b-man | ~infobot | 19:07 |
| infobot | b-man, i love abuse, feed me!, or whack, yo | 19:07 |
| alterego | benno2: i.e. talk direct to alsa if you want. but you will almost certainly break everything else. | 19:07 |
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| benno2 | alterego, but what are the "breakage" scenarios exactly ? my audio app opens alsa and then the phone app does not work any more ? (no calls can be made, receive until reboot?=) | 19:09 |
| alterego | benno2: and by everything else I mean media player, phone | 19:09 |
| b-man | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55976 < a textbook example of a hijacked thread lol | 19:09 |
| Mece | infobot, tmo is http://talk.maemo.org | 19:09 |
| infobot | okay, Mece | 19:09 |
| alterego | benno2: yes exactly, I would have expected that. | 19:09 |
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| alterego | benno2: That's probably because you've cause pulse to get in a bad state as it maintains handles to mkc and speaker through alsa | 19:10 |
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| alterego | benno2: so, to play nice, talk to pulse directly, or use gstreamer with pulse sink or src. | 19:10 |
| benno2 | alterego, the question is how does a VOIP app on maemo open the audio device in a system friendly way without breaking anything ? | 19:10 |
| Mece | ~tmo | 19:10 |
| infobot | rumour has it, tmo is http://talk.maemo.org | 19:10 |
| alterego | benno2: gst :) | 19:11 |
| Mece | hmpf | 19:11 |
| Mece | yay | 19:11 |
| alterego | That is how we handle audio and video in maemo, plain as. | 19:11 |
| * Mece made infobot do something! | 19:11 | |
| zaheerm | yes but alsa apps do work | 19:11 |
| benno2 | alterego, ok. so regarding gst, any app you recommend to look at (at the source) ? | 19:11 |
| alterego | benno2: what are you writing? a VoIP client? | 19:11 |
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| alterego | It's somewhazt different if you want to stream data from some source like network, or just play an audio file :) | 19:13 |
| benno2 | alterego, no an app which should fast react to audio input showing it visually. currently with QAudioInput I get 5000msec (5sec!) latencies. the same code on Linux gets low latencies. QAudioInput uses ALSA (did look at the code of qt 4.6.2/3). so I think it's maemo's pulse audios ALSA emulation | 19:13 |
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| alterego | benno2: your getting 5 sec latency on device? | 19:14 |
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| alterego | ~you're ... | 19:14 |
| zaheerm | benno2, you tried on a desktop with pu;seaudio and alsa emulation turned on? | 19:15 |
| benno2 | alterego, exactly, seems unbelievable but it's that way. on the SDK under freemantle-x86 it works well, as well as on plain linux with alsa. but on a N900 it sucks. it's a plain N900 with PR 1.2. QAudioOutput OTOH seems to work ok (I'd say 0.x secs output latency) | 19:15 |
| benno2 | zaheerm, no I tried on the desktop with plain alsa. | 19:15 |
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| alterego | benno2: okay, just to clarify here, pulse actually also provides alsa with sources.. Erm, I read a cool article a while ago on Linux audio systems, I'll try to find it, but basically pulse has a loop back, which goes back in alsa, it's those "devices" you should be using. | 19:17 |
| alterego | If you want to talk direct to alsa that is. | 19:17 |
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| alterego | just trying to remember where I read the article. I'll dig up a gst example too. | 19:19 |
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| benno2 | alterego, probalby QAudioInput choses the default ALSA devices and that is the pulse ALSA device. and this is what causes latency. if I request a buffer of 2048 bytes at 44kHz (mono 16bit = 1024 bytes = about 20msecs), it returns a bufsize of 8000bytes, which is already fishy. I tried with 8khz mono 16bit and a bufsize of 512bytes and it is adjusted to 1600bytes. so it seems like it always tries to set the bufsize to 100msec. but the real latency is 5000msec | 19:20 |
| benno2 | when capturing audio. not the advertised 100msec | 19:20 |
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| alterego | benno2: sure, unfortunately the article was in Linux Format and unless you're a subscriber I can't show you the pdf :P | 19:21 |
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| alterego | benno2: I think that might be because pulse is monitoring that input itself. | 19:22 |
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| benno2 | alterego, I will write example code and file a bug report to maemo, this is a severe bug. otherwise they have to explain the latency thing more detailed. since Qt is advertised as the API to use for crossplatform code (and will be the official API on Symbian and Meego), Nokia needs to get things straight. not halfbaked high latency multimedia API. I worked with real time audio for the last 10 years, on dozen of platforms and never saw this bad behaviour. | 19:24 |
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| BCMM | ah, pulseaudio... | 19:26 |
| benno2 | alterego, I'm one of the authors of this open source sampler : http://www.linuxsampler.org and have contributed tools and tests to improve the audio latency of linux, so I know what I am talking about. in linuxsampler we achieve single digit latencies on any platorm even windows. Nokia messed up the audio system on maemo big time. | 19:26 |
| benno2 | and it seems that meego will use the same stuff. very sad | 19:26 |
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| alterego | benno2: I'm not convinced it's a bug, I just think you don't fully get how maemo's audio is "wired" together. | 19:27 |
| alterego | Qt and multimedia is, well, broken atm ... | 19:27 |
| alterego | :/ | 19:27 |
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| alterego | So, using gst or pulse directly is probably your only option, and from what it sounds like you're doing, I'd go with gstreamer. | 19:28 |
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| benno2 | alterego, might be, but look at it from a developer's perspective. Nokia says: use Qt so you get efficient and portable code. I use QAudioInput and the latency sucks. so it means the maemo qt people did not do their homework. if developers need to go through 1000 hurdles to get decent latency they lose interest and patience and will switch platform. on iphone for example almost any stupid app provides low latency. because there is a single audio API which work | 19:30 |
| benno2 | s. I tihkn I need to join the meego ML and Qt ML and start providing numbers and test apps like I did with the linux kernel. it helped a lot. inversted a lot of time but kernel devs listened, used my tools and improved the scheduler. | 19:30 |
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| alterego | benno2: also, looking at the default settings for pulsesrc in gstreamer, which is probably what Qt is using, there's a default 40000 microsecond latency buffer .. | 19:32 |
| alterego | which is pretty close to your your five seconds? | 19:33 |
| benno2 | alterego, thanks for the tips. I can try to change my code to use gst. but if Nokia did their homework and used it in QAudioInput too it would solve this issue without embarassing 5000msec latency. no wonder that user say Nokia phones are slow and unresponsive. those latency details do matter. users do want reactive multimedia | 19:33 |
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| Wild_Doogy | Would this place be ok to ask a question about carriers for the n900? | 19:34 |
| mece | x-fade, ping? | 19:35 |
| alterego | Wild_Doogy: possibly not, | 19:35 |
| mece | Wild_Doogy, but ask anyway. | 19:35 |
| alterego | thanks for finishing me sentence mece :) | 19:36 |
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| Arkenoi | is there a hack to make ctrl-shift-R effect presistent? | 19:36 |
| Wild_Doogy | right-ho, I have narrowed down my search to t-mobile prepaid plans. what would I need to get that working? just a SIM card? or is it more complicated. | 19:37 |
| alterego | Wild_Doogy: just a sim card | 19:38 |
| alterego | Wild_Doogy: N900's are unlocked. | 19:38 |
| benno2 | alterego, I just scanned the qt-maemo sources, qt multimedia does not seem to contain maemo specific code nor QT_WS_MAEMO_5 defines, it just uses plain ALSA. like the official Qt version | 19:38 |
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| alterego | benno2: well, that's kind of expected. Have you posted to maemo-devel mailing list? | 19:39 |
| mece | alterego, simple minds think alike :D | 19:39 |
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| alterego | benno2: I'm sure your issue is config over code :P | 19:39 |
| Wild_Doogy | alterego: Thanks heaps. | 19:39 |
| alterego | Wild_Doogy: np | 19:40 |
| alterego | I think my karma should be very good today :P | 19:40 |
| alterego | I should look for a job or something ... | 19:40 |
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| benno2 | alterego, not yet (though I am a subscriber since the N770 days). but I'd like to write some test code first to backup my claims. otherwise I already know the answer: it's probably your fault, your code is wrong etc | 19:40 |
| alterego | :) | 19:42 |
| vldcnst | benno2: where are you with linuxsampler? do you need help? | 19:42 |
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| benno2 | vldcnst, help is alway appreciated :) in which area would you like to help out ? we thought about porting linuxsampler to maemo but the question is if it makes sense. you can downscale the memory requirements (polyphony etc). but one needs a frontend too, eg a virtual keyboard or using an external keyboard etc. the polyphony will not be great but I guess 30-50 voices is doable | 19:43 |
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| Venemo | hey | 19:44 |
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| Venemo | I would need the help of somebody who has some understanding of X or the Hildon dekstop | 19:45 |
| alterego | Oh, that's a bit insulting ... | 19:45 |
| vldcnst | a bit? | 19:45 |
| alterego | Qt labs wants me to upgrade flashon my N900 to watch a video :( | 19:46 |
| vldcnst | benno2: indeed, porting it to maemo isn't that interesting. I'll take a look on the forums and maybe I can help out in some areas. I'll keep you in touch. | 19:46 |
| jaska | haha | 19:46 |
| benno2 | vldcnst, you are welcome thanks ! all devs read the linuxsampler forums so you can ask there or subscribe to the ML (though the forums do have much more subscribers) | 19:47 |
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| BCMM | Venemo: i'm sure that giving some more detail of your problem will attract more attention | 19:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Alternative ways might be to cover yourself in lard, and swim the channel. | 19:56 |
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| vldcnst | or change your nickname to abill_uk | 19:57 |
| vldcnst | wait, that wouldn't help. | 19:57 |
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| alterego | Heh | 19:58 |
| vldcnst | no, really. How can he say he finished work on USB OTG, that pisses me off | 19:59 |
| Venemo | BCMM: I would like to know a way to determine which homescreen widget is currently active | 19:59 |
| alterego | vldcnst: I think you need to distract yourself from him out of fear of some kind of unhealthy obsession. fools die off. | 19:59 |
| Venemo | sorry | 19:59 |
| Venemo | type | 19:59 |
| Venemo | typo | 19:59 |
| Venemo | BCMM: I would like to know a way to determine which homescreen is currently active | 19:59 |
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| Venemo | either C or C++ code would help | 19:59 |
| alterego | Venemo: you mean in the form of some kind of index? | 20:00 |
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| alterego | like 1-4? | 20:00 |
| Venemo | yes, something like that | 20:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo: Have you done dbus-monitor --system - or whatever - while changing desktops - to check if anything changes? | 20:00 |
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| alterego | SpeedEvil: nothing ;) | 20:00 |
| Venemo | hm, I will | 20:00 |
| Venemo | but still, I don't want to be notified when it changes | 20:01 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: I'm unsure what parts of hildon is open. | 20:01 |
| Venemo | I would like to know which is active | 20:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | Venemo: even | 20:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo: I would start by inspecting to see if hildon-desktop - or is it hildon-home is open | 20:01 |
| SpeedEvil | and then if it is - inspect the code | 20:01 |
| Venemo | they are open | 20:01 |
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| Venemo | but I couldn't find such a thing | 20:01 |
| Venemo | I don't even know where to start :) | 20:01 |
| Venemo | I found this: | 20:02 |
| Venemo | http://maemo.gitorious.com/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-desktop/blobs/385675c811cd4e34e395d00f1d505002bd143d13/src/mb/hd-atoms.c | 20:02 |
| vldcnst | Venemo: I believe the hildon screen manager checks which widgets are active. | 20:02 |
| Venemo | no | 20:02 |
| Venemo | not which widgets | 20:02 |
| Venemo | which homescreen | 20:02 |
| alterego | Venemo: write 4 hidden desktop home widgets and get them to output a number to a file on their activation events :P | 20:02 |
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| vldcnst | Venemo: my mistake | 20:02 |
| Venemo | no, I made a typo, sorry | 20:02 |
| alterego | Then put one on each home screen, and you're done :P | 20:03 |
| Venemo | alterego: okay, but how do they know the number? | 20:03 |
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| Venemo | is this a joke? | 20:03 |
| alterego | Venemo: It is yes, | 20:03 |
| Venemo | okay... :P | 20:03 |
| alterego | It would work, but it's horrible. | 20:03 |
| BCMM | i know this is newbish of me, but is there any way to get qdbus on the n900? | 20:03 |
| Venemo | yes, there is | 20:04 |
| Venemo | at #qt-maemo, you can get more help :) | 20:04 |
| Venemo | so, I need this, because I wrote an application that puts widgets dynamically on the homescreen | 20:04 |
| BCMM | Venemo: was that directed at me? | 20:04 |
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| Venemo | no | 20:04 |
| Venemo | not the last one | 20:04 |
| alterego | Venemo: what I would do, if I was doing what you're doing. I'd open up a python interpreter on the device, and I'd start looking at the x windows :) | 20:05 |
| Venemo | I need to know which homescreen is active, because I wrote an application that puts widgets dynamically on the homescreen | 20:05 |
| Venemo | and obviously, when the device is powered off, the widgets disappear | 20:05 |
| Venemo | I can put them back if I set my app to autostart when device starts | 20:06 |
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| Venemo | I even know their previous coordinates | 20:06 |
| flailingmonkey | what if you just have it generate normal widgets | 20:06 |
| Venemo | but, the problem is, I can't determine which screen they were on and how to put them to that homescreen | 20:06 |
| BCMM | Venemo: aren't there applications which add a widget to the current desktop on install? you could check the source of one of those | 20:06 |
| Venemo | yes | 20:07 |
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| Venemo | but I want to add widgets _dynamically_ | 20:07 |
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| alterego | BCMM: that's done as default, you can't target specific screens. | 20:07 |
| Venemo | the advantage is that this way I can have multiple instances of the same widget | 20:08 |
| flailingmonkey | it could remove/modify those widgets I would think, but then the widgets wouldn't need the program to be running to display | 20:09 |
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| Venemo | flailingmonkey: I get your point, but that is not the issue | 20:09 |
| Venemo | the issue is that I can't set which desktop are the widgets gonna be added to | 20:09 |
| Venemo | at least, I don't know how | 20:10 |
| alterego | Venemo: yes you can, just add it directly into gconf | 20:10 |
| flailingmonkey | I haven't seen widgets add to a specific desktop, other than when they are loaded on boot | 20:10 |
| flailingmonkey | any other time, widgets just get added to current screen right? | 20:11 |
| Venemo | yes | 20:11 |
| Venemo | yes | 20:11 |
| Venemo | this is the isse | 20:11 |
| Venemo | this is the issue* | 20:11 |
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| Venemo | these widgets are _not_ re-added automatically | 20:11 |
| flailingmonkey | it might be a use case that was not considered | 20:11 |
| Venemo | this means that my app needs to re-add them manually | 20:11 |
| Venemo | well, I'm sure it is possible with some hacking around in X | 20:12 |
| flailingmonkey | I don't know how you add widgets dynamically though | 20:12 |
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| Venemo | it is quite easy: | 20:12 |
| Venemo | http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/eve-watcher/trunk/source/QtExtensions/qmaemo5dynamichomescreenwidget.cpp | 20:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | What sort of widegts are you planning? | 20:13 |
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| Venemo | this sort: v | 20:14 |
| Venemo | this sort: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=713907&postcount=25 | 20:14 |
| BCMM | is there a way to determine, before installation, the files a package provides? | 20:14 |
| BCMM | a website, perhaps? | 20:14 |
| Venemo | BCMM: download its .deb file, open it with 7-Zip and see what's in there | 20:15 |
| flailingmonkey | the utilities that install packages can show their contents too | 20:15 |
| Venemo | hmm | 20:15 |
| Venemo | btw | 20:15 |
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| BCMM | Venemo: they are in 7z format? | 20:15 |
| DrGrov | How is it with the N900? Is there any way to use some kind of WLAN package sniffers? | 20:15 |
| yipdw | BCMM: dpkg -L <deb file>, if you have the archive | 20:16 |
| yipdw | no need to unzip | 20:16 |
| Venemo | BCMM: no, but 7-Zip can open .debs, too | 20:16 |
| DrGrov | Not thinking of using myself. More as a safety precaution. | 20:16 |
| vldcnst | DrGrov: monitor mode is implemented. | 20:16 |
| yipdw | or, rather, unbzip2, because that's what Debian archives typically are | 20:16 |
| BCMM | Venemo: wikipedia says one can just use tar... | 20:16 |
| Venemo | for me | 20:16 |
| Venemo | I double click a .deb, and it opens | 20:16 |
| BCMM | Venemo: ar, rather | 20:16 |
| BCMM | Venemo: oh, is this on windows? | 20:16 |
| DrGrov | vldcnst: oh, so it is possible to follow a specific WLAN and gather a swarm of information? | 20:16 |
| yipdw | BCMM: yeah, Debian archives are tarballs | 20:16 |
| BCMM | anyway, if there isn't such a site i may as well just install | 20:17 |
| Venemo | BCMM: yes, I use Windows | 20:17 |
| BCMM | since i'm only bothered due to my 'net connection being slow | 20:17 |
| BCMM | Venemo: ah, that would explain not suggesting tar | 20:17 |
| BCMM | sorry | 20:17 |
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| BCMM | Venemo: heh, aren't you glad i asked you a minute ago instead of now... | 20:18 |
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| Venemo | BCMM: The Windows version of 7-Zip can open a bunch of different formats | 20:19 |
| BCMM | yeah, i know | 20:19 |
| Venemo | I guessed that the Linux version can, too | 20:19 |
| Venemo | sorry | 20:19 |
| BCMM | Venemo: perhaps it can, but tar is popular | 20:19 |
| BCMM | also, always installed | 20:19 |
| BCMM | (give or take) | 20:19 |
| Venemo | okay | 20:19 |
| Venemo | sorry for that | 20:20 |
| Venemo | the N900 is my first Linux experience that lasted more than 5 minutes :) | 20:20 |
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| BCMM | Venemo: it's ok, i'm not bothered | 20:22 |
| BCMM | Venemo: i just forget that not every Freenode channel is full of linux people :) | 20:22 |
| BCMM | Venemo: having fun with maemo? | 20:22 |
| Venemo | BCMM: yes :) | 20:22 |
| Venemo | I'm not one of those people who hates Linux or anything | 20:23 |
| Venemo | I just haven't used it thus far | 20:23 |
| vldcnst | who would hate linux? | 20:23 |
| Venemo | well, I know many people who hate "the other side" | 20:23 |
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| yipdw | vldcnst: some people dislike it because the system as a whole isn't really a paragon of consistency or architectural excellence | 20:25 |
| yipdw | one example brought up by FreeBSD users is the lack of a unified kernel event notification system | 20:25 |
| yipdw | (which FreeBSD has) | 20:25 |
| BCMM | Venemo: didn't say you were... for a start, you're using maemo | 20:25 |
| flailingmonkey | we are the root cause of the downfall of humanity of course | 20:25 |
| BCMM | yipdw: people who dislike linux for that reason probably wouldn't go near windows... | 20:26 |
| yipdw | that said, for many situations a Linux-based system is good enough | 20:26 |
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| yipdw | BCMM: depends | 20:26 |
| BCMM | i use linux pretty much exclusively, but i'd agree that freebsd is "theoretically" superiour in a number of ways | 20:26 |
| BCMM | i especially admire their paranoia | 20:26 |
| valdyn | being cleaner doesnt make it any more practical | 20:26 |
| flailingmonkey | indeed, the design is practical not elegent | 20:27 |
| Venemo | BCMM: true, but unfortunately, my work requires me to use Windows | 20:27 |
| Venemo | I do plan to install Linux on a USB drive, though, for Maemo development :) | 20:27 |
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| BCMM | there was that xorg bug a while back, and IIRC it didn't effect freebsd | 20:27 |
| yipdw | valdyn: in the case of kernel event notifications, that's not really true | 20:27 |
| flailingmonkey | valdyn, for use perhaps not, but for development it definitely would be | 20:27 |
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| yipdw | a cleaner design *is* more practical if you're waiting for notifications on various kernel events, e.g. I/O, process completion, process forking | 20:27 |
| BCMM | not because they'd found it already, but because somebody had gone "i don't quite understand that bit, better change it in case" a few years back | 20:27 |
| valdyn | yipdw: i didn't try to be specific to that thing, i dont even know what it is | 20:28 |
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| SplasPood | heh, every time I restart my XMPP server contacts on the N900 get filled with dupes where the Nickname differs from the existing contact entries... big PITA | 20:28 |
| flailingmonkey | ouch | 20:28 |
| BCMM | yipdw: so by a "unified kernel events system", you mean things like processes ending and inotify and so on would be integrated? | 20:28 |
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| yipdw | BCMM: yes | 20:28 |
| BCMM | yipdw: that is kind of neat... | 20:29 |
| yipdw | for example, to watch processes and I/O on Linux you'd have to use ptrace and select | 20:29 |
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| yipdw | I think | 20:29 |
| yipdw | on FreeBSD it all goes through kqueue | 20:29 |
| yipdw | (and Darwin, just fyi) | 20:29 |
| yipdw | just things like that | 20:29 |
| luke-jr | let's raid Nokia HQ | 20:29 |
| luke-jr | bring your gnus! | 20:30 |
| GAN900 | Woo | 20:30 |
| yipdw | personally, I use a Linux system, not a FreeBSD system, because ATi's Catalyst drivers don't work on FreeBSD afaik | 20:30 |
| yipdw | :P | 20:30 |
| yipdw | and I need the OpenCL bits that fglrx provides but radeonhd does not | 20:30 |
| yipdw | so yeah, priorities and needed features, etc. | 20:30 |
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| luke-jr | GAN900: is your N900 is proper gnu?? | 20:31 |
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| BCMM | yipdw: ati's catalyst drivers don't work, period... | 20:31 |
| BCMM | yipdw: oh, sorry, you already said why you weren't using open drivers | 20:32 |
| yipdw | BCMM: some parts do. in 10.5 the 3D bits work, but the 2D acceleration is crap | 20:32 |
| BCMM | yipdw: looked at radeon as well as radeonhd? | 20:32 |
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| yipdw | BCMM: yeah | 20:32 |
| yipdw | as far as I can tell, neither support the OpenCL extensions | 20:32 |
| yipdw | but I could be wrong | 20:32 |
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| luke-jr | yipdw: so add them | 20:33 |
| yipdw | luke-jr: I would, if I had sufficient time | 20:33 |
| vldcnst | Venemo: have you tried playing with xev? | 20:33 |
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| benno2 | SpeedEvil, Hi. could you try please to do: arecord -v file.wav and then see what the capture parameters are. perhaps they are different from the aplay ones you posted yesterday. many thanks for your help. | 20:33 |
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| yipdw | luke-jr: but as my time with OpenCL is primarily spent learning and using the system, I find myself often in the situation where I don't have time to delve into the radeon/radeonhd drivers and do it | 20:34 |
| Venemo | hmmm | 20:34 |
| yipdw | (and it's not easy, for me at least, to justify e.g. funding for that sort of thing) | 20:34 |
| Venemo | read this: | 20:34 |
| Venemo | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-June/026537.html | 20:35 |
| Venemo | did this feature actually make it into PR 1.2? :o | 20:35 |
| yipdw | oh great, more ways to kill my N900's battery | 20:35 |
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| orospakr | Is there a convenient web search tool for the maemo repositories? ala packages.debian.org. | 20:38 |
| Wizzup | radeonhd is outdated, use radeon | 20:38 |
| Wizzup | but it doesn't support opencl yet, no | 20:38 |
| yipdw | Wizzup: yeah, i was using whichever shipped with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS | 20:38 |
| yipdw | (probably radeon) | 20:38 |
| yipdw | 2D was fantastic, 3D/OpenCL didn't work though | 20:39 |
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| Wizzup | What card? All but evergreen/r800 should have 3d as well | 20:39 |
| Wizzup | (but 3d is still kinda experimental) | 20:39 |
| yipdw | ATI Radeon HD 5850 | 20:39 |
| Wizzup | ah,r800 I think? | 20:39 |
| Wizzup | oh, that's r700 | 20:39 |
| yipdw | something like that | 20:39 |
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| * luke-jr has r300 | 20:39 | |
| Wizzup | Well I g2g :) | 20:39 |
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| BCMM | yipdw: oh, radeon has seen a lot of improvement pretty recently | 20:42 |
| BCMM | well, relitively | 20:42 |
| yipdw | BCMM: yeah, it's gotten quite good | 20:42 |
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| BCMM | yipdw: especially for 600/700 | 20:42 |
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| yipdw | the 2D in particular (as I mentioned) absolutely destroys what fglrx does | 20:43 |
| yipdw | i.e. https://gist.github.com/869fcb0ff93fbedbf1f7 | 20:43 |
| DrGrov | Anyone seen the D-THEME Night? | 20:43 |
| DrGrov | No screenshot available on maemo.org... :/ | 20:43 |
| BCMM | yipdw: i've been using kde desktop effects and even stuff like google earth on my Radeon HD 3870 | 20:43 |
| BCMM | yipdw: then again, i've been compiling the xorg driver and mesa from git | 20:44 |
| BCMM | and using kernel 2.6.34 | 20:44 |
| yipdw | BCMM: oh, neat | 20:44 |
| DrGrov | is there always used to be screenshots for themes? | 20:45 |
| BCMM | yipdw: over the past 6 months or so, i've seen Google Earth go from quite glitchy to very smooth | 20:46 |
| yipdw | BCMM: that's pretty slick; good indication that the radeon driver is progressing well | 20:47 |
| BCMM | yipdw: yeah | 20:47 |
| yipdw | I'd love to get involved with that but the time issue (as well as the fact that I haven't written a device driver for any platform in, uh, six years) prevents me from doing so | 20:47 |
| BCMM | yipdw: i got the radeon instead of a new nvidia because the kernel driver was progressing so fast | 20:48 |
| BCMM | yipdw: http://www.x.org/wiki/RadeonFeature | 20:48 |
| BCMM | yipdw: makes it look like r600 and r700 are in similar states, so you should get the same sort of features i do | 20:49 |
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| yipdw | BCMM: well, kind of. Evergreen is the 5xxx family | 20:49 |
| BCMM | yipdw: oh, i thought you had an r700, sorry | 20:49 |
| yipdw | BCMM: yeah, i thought I did too and then I found out that Radeon HD 5850 is in the Evergreen/Cypress/whatever-they-called-it family | 20:50 |
| yipdw | that said, Evergreen's not in a bad state | 20:50 |
| BCMM | yipdw: opengl - WIP | 20:50 |
| BCMM | yeah... | 20:50 |
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| yipdw | and the fact that they're working on accelerated video decoding is also very slick | 20:50 |
| flailingmonkey | I think live backgrounds did make it, but haven't seen control panel they ask about in that email | 20:51 |
| BCMM | yipdw: shouldn't be *that* long though, iirc AMD is helping, or at least cooperating | 20:51 |
| yipdw | nice | 20:51 |
| yipdw | yeah, that was one reason I went with ATI stuff | 20:51 |
| yipdw | it's rough now, but it has far brighter prospects than NVIDIA wrt Linux, and I can put up with the WTFs caused by fglrx for now | 20:52 |
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| BCMM | yipdw: yeah, previously: ATI can't do linux drivers right. Now: they still can't, but they've noticed they can't and they're cooperating with community drivers | 20:53 |
| satmd | that's what the community asked them from the beginning | 20:54 |
| satmd | :) | 20:54 |
| BCMM | satmd: yeah | 20:54 |
| crashanddie | and talking about ATI drivers on this channel is relevant, how? | 20:54 |
| yipdw | it isn't | 20:54 |
| crashanddie | then take it to #linux, thanks | 20:54 |
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| Toba | hey. anyone having a bug in the 'notes' application on the n900 where if you make a bullet list, save, and re-open, a bunch of blank bullets intersperse into your lists? | 20:55 |
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| Toba | I've tried googling for people talking about it but I have found nothing | 20:55 |
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| crashanddie | Toba: if you can reproduce it, just create a bug for it | 20:56 |
| BCMM | crashanddie: sorry | 20:57 |
| crashanddie | np | 20:57 |
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| benno2 | any good soul which could perform a arecord test on his N900 (I don't have a N900 here ATM) arecord -v file.wav and then see what the capture parameters are and then post the output to pastebin. I'm trying to track down high latency problems while recording with Qt Multimedia. many thanks! | 21:02 |
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| lardman | evening chaps | 21:08 |
| lardman | & chapesses | 21:08 |
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| MohammadAG51 | morning | 21:08 |
| lardman | :) | 21:08 |
| flailingmonkey | afterniin | 21:09 |
| flailingmonkey | s/afterniin/afternoon/ | 21:09 |
| infobot | flailingmonkey meant: afternoon | 21:09 |
| lcuk | happy june lardman | 21:09 |
| lardman | ah, generic ugt greeting to all | 21:09 |
| lardman | :) | 21:09 |
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| MohammadAG51 | happy 9:11 peeps | 21:11 |
| lardman | bbiam, supper beckons :) | 21:12 |
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| luke-jr | how does Sprint stay in business? | 21:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | 4G? | 21:14 |
| luke-jr | haha | 21:14 |
| luke-jr | maybe | 21:14 |
| luke-jr | they want $100/mo for what Cricket offers at $30/mo | 21:14 |
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| MohammadAG51 | when oh when will I see a progress bar for mv | 21:14 |
| luke-jr | heck, even T-Mobile wants $50/mo -.- | 21:14 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG51, when you make one yourself, normal mv doesnt have one | 21:15 |
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| MohammadAG51 | yeah lcuk, I know :/ | 21:16 |
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| * MohammadAG51 ponders how the GUI calculates it | 21:16 | |
| flailingmonkey | it should use rsync for mv then :-p rsync for eeeverything | 21:16 |
| lcuk | the calculation is fairly simple | 21:16 |
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| * MohammadAG51 uses scp over localhost | 21:17 | |
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| luke-jr | is it usually against the ToS to get a line to hook to Asterisk and use it for all calls? <.< | 21:17 |
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| flailingmonkey | well, for data? | 21:20 |
| flailingmonkey | or the phone service | 21:20 |
| luke-jr | phone | 21:20 |
| luke-jr | obviously O.o | 21:20 |
| flailingmonkey | then you can probably do what you like as long as you are in your use of minutes | 21:21 |
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| luke-jr | well, my thought being abuse the mobile-to-mobile minutes ;) | 21:21 |
| luke-jr | not that it matters mcuh... even abusing the mobile-to-mobile minutes, it's more expensive than Cricket's $30/mo -.- | 21:22 |
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| * lardman takes a glance at the openpandora blog in passing and sees that they have still not really started shipping | 21:58 | |
| mece | teehee | 21:58 |
| mece | dnf | 21:58 |
| mece | is it possible to have normal widgets in a QMenuBar? | 21:59 |
| mece | I would like some checkboxes. | 21:59 |
| b-man | they'll probably update it once they have fished shipping all of the devices ;) | 21:59 |
| lardman | what dnf will be released once the pandora ships?! | 22:00 |
| lardman | ;) | 22:00 |
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| * lardman goes to get a beer to recover, bbiab | 22:00 | |
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| Venemo | mece: check this out: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/maemo5-menu.html | 22:03 |
| mece | Yay! | 22:04 |
| mece | Venemo, thanks! | 22:04 |
| Venemo | you're welcome | 22:04 |
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| flailingmonkey | widgetsss? | 22:04 |
| mece | flailingmonkey: que? | 22:05 |
| Venemo | not really, but some customization of the menu | 22:05 |
| mece | well it was exactly what I wanted either way :) | 22:06 |
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| Venemo | :) | 22:06 |
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| mece | OMG | 22:09 |
| mece | Paraguay!!!!! | 22:09 |
| petur | hahaha | 22:09 |
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| petur | footbalfreak :P | 22:09 |
| mece | meh | 22:09 |
| mece | I just have the stream open. Got a lot of italian friends. I bet they're pissed now. | 22:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's OK, I'm sure they all did well out of their coincidental bets against italy. | 22:10 |
| mece | heee | 22:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Which had nothing to do with the whereabouts of the italian players relatives. | 22:11 |
| mece | :D | 22:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | Some people in other channels have eben commenting on the possibiltiy og a 'n9' - and referring to video. Is there anything substantive? | 22:15 |
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| mece | SpeedEvil. No. | 22:16 |
| flailingmonkey | nothing really besides the video itself | 22:16 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 22:16 |
| flailingmonkey | the video makes me think of a sidekick kinda | 22:16 |
| mece | the video doesn't have an actual item though. A render. | 22:16 |
| SpeedEvil | flailingmonkey: You mean where nokia store all your data, and then delete it all in one massive accident? | 22:17 |
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| mece | LOL | 22:17 |
| mece | damn.. the checkable actions weren't as nice as I wanted. | 22:18 |
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| Venemo | really? | 22:18 |
| Venemo | how did they look? | 22:18 |
| petur | I have a dev question: I created a Qt app (using Qt Creator), and would now like to build a version for n900. I installed scratchbox and now I'm a bit stuck: "bash: qmake: command not found" | 22:18 |
| mece | well they work, but I wanted a checkbox button. | 22:18 |
| Venemo | and what does it look like as it is? | 22:19 |
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| mece | Venemo: a button that remains "clicked" | 22:19 |
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| flailingmonkey | petur, what about using MADDE? | 22:19 |
| petur | isn't that windows-only? | 22:20 |
| flailingmonkey | petur, might be right about that | 22:20 |
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| petur | using ubuntu 10.04 here | 22:20 |
| b-man | i think i found something very, very odd - apparently the armel package providing qmake contains i386 binaries | 22:20 |
| benno2 | SpeedEvil, Hi. could you try please to do: arecord -v file.wav and then see what the capture parameters are. perhaps they are different from the aplay ones you posted yesterday. many thanks for your help. | 22:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | Not at the moment. | 22:21 |
| flailingmonkey | benno2, you just want the output it creates? | 22:22 |
| SpeedEvil | That would involve getting out of bed. | 22:22 |
| Venemo | petur: MADDE is for Linux and Mac, too | 22:22 |
| SpeedEvil | And I've been up a ladder cutting hedges all day. | 22:22 |
| Venemo | and also it is less buggy on Linux than on Windows | 22:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - for a couple of hours - which was my mimit | 22:22 |
| SpeedEvil | limit | 22:22 |
| petur | Venemo: thnx, I'll have a look | 22:23 |
| Venemo | just download the Nokia Qt SDK RC for Linux | 22:23 |
| benno2 | flailingmonkey, no. I am trying to debug what kind of audio device I have to open in order to achieve lower latency. if you run arecord -v file.wav then it prints some debug info on the console , like buffer size etc. it would be useful to get that info because I have no N900 herre ATM | 22:23 |
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| Venemo | it contains MADDE and installs it for you, effortlessly | 22:23 |
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| flailingmonkey | benno2, http://pastebin.org/331077 | 22:25 |
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| petur | Venemo: I installed Qt Creator already from qt.nokia.com, I assume you mean something else? | 22:26 |
| Venemo | petur: yes, you assume correctly | 22:26 |
| benno2 | flailingmonkey, thanks alot for the info! | 22:27 |
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| Venemo | petur: uninstall the current qt-related stuff, and install this: | 22:27 |
| Venemo | http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html | 22:27 |
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| petur | uninstall qtcreator? | 22:27 |
| Venemo | yes | 22:27 |
| Arkenoi | how do i skip intro on scrummvm games? (beneath a steel sky etc) | 22:27 |
| Venemo | Nokia Qt SDK comes with a newer Qt Creator, anyways | 22:28 |
| Venemo | there is both a 32-bit and a 64-bit version | 22:28 |
| petur | will my existing Qt project still open with that? | 22:28 |
| Venemo | yes, it will | 22:28 |
| petur | ok... let's get to work then :) | 22:29 |
| Venemo | look at here: http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE | 22:29 |
| Venemo | what applies to MADDE applies to the Nokia Qt SDK as well, because it uses MADDE | 22:29 |
| Venemo | on that page, you can find how to use it with your device | 22:29 |
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| petur | great, thanks a lot | 22:30 |
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| Venemo | you don't have to follow the steps on integration and other stuff, because it is already done | 22:30 |
| Venemo | here is what you'll need: http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE/Device_runtime | 22:30 |
| Venemo | and #qt-maemo is the right place to ask questions about Qt stuff :) | 22:31 |
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| petur | okidoki... | 22:31 |
| Venemo | there are a lot of helpful people there | 22:31 |
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| flailingmonkey | benno, your welcome :) | 22:32 |
| flailingmonkey | s/benno/benno2/ | 22:32 |
| infobot | flailingmonkey meant: benno2, your welcome :) | 22:32 |
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| b-man | hmm, it looks like the libqt4-dev package is gonna need to be rebuilt - looks really messed up :( | 22:38 |
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| b-man | the armel package has a mix of arm and i386 binaries :P | 22:38 |
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| flailingmonkey | thats just because the N9 will have hardware x86 instruction emulation | 22:41 |
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| b-man | lol | 22:41 |
| flailingmonkey | :-p | 22:41 |
| flailingmonkey | i'd tell the people in #qt-maemo though | 22:42 |
| * b-man does so | 22:42 | |
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| xDaReaperx | is there a working bittorrent client for N900 ? | 22:53 |
| xDaReaperx | i searched a lot | 22:53 |
| vldcnst | not really | 22:53 |
| vldcnst | not really as in, you haven't searched enough | 22:53 |
| vldcnst | transmission | 22:53 |
| Venemo | re all | 22:53 |
| Venemo | Pidgin is WAY better than mIRC | 22:54 |
| xDaReaperx | transmission is in development right ? | 22:54 |
| vldcnst | it's working | 22:54 |
| MohammadAG51 | irssi ftw | 22:54 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG51: hehe, haven't tried that one yet | 22:55 |
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| vldcnst | Venemo: I've used mIRC since 98. I even use it on wine. | 22:55 |
| Venemo | well, it's non-free | 22:56 |
| vldcnst | s/it/with | 22:56 |
| Venemo | and I don't feel like paying for it | 22:56 |
| nidO | since when have you ever had to pay for mirc | 22:59 |
| flailingmonkey | irssiiiiiii | 22:59 |
| Venemo | since it is shareware? | 23:00 |
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| Venemo | nidO: http://www.mirc.co.uk/register.html -> they ask for $20... | 23:00 |
| nidO | its optional | 23:01 |
| flailingmonkey | i downloaded both irssi and xchat, and the font on xchat made no sense | 23:01 |
| flailingmonkey | irssi feels more irc-style | 23:01 |
| Venemo | nidO: no, it is a 30 day trial, and then goodbye mIRC | 23:01 |
| nidO | no | 23:01 |
| Venemo | well, it is for me | 23:01 |
| RST38h | moo all | 23:01 |
| nidO | then "ask you for payment, make you wait 5 seconds, then press continue" | 23:01 |
| alterego | When I'm holding my N900 I give off some weird electromagnatic stuff | 23:01 |
| flailingmonkey | but I had to find a theme that worked with white backgrounds, most themes assume black background | 23:01 |
| nidO | when i open mirc i get told its like 900 days over then carries on fine | 23:01 |
| Venemo | hehe :D | 23:02 |
| alterego | My girlfriend can actually tell when I'm holding it by stroking my arm and now my ear. | 23:02 |
| Kegetys | just because it works doesn't mean its legal to keep using it | 23:02 |
| alterego | And I can hear it too O_O | 23:02 |
| Venemo | well, still, Pidgin doesn't ask for any money, and looks better | 23:02 |
| flailingmonkey | rofl, it generates super powers | 23:02 |
| b-man | alterego: do electronics and compasses go nutz? xD (jk) | 23:02 |
| flailingmonkey | pidgin on N900? never tried IRC through pidgin | 23:03 |
| flailingmonkey | ~karma | 23:03 |
| infobot | flailingmonkey has neutral karma | 23:03 |
| alterego | It's quite weird, I did a blind fold test and she instantly knows if I'm touching it, seems to only work with the screen or metal border of the screen :/ | 23:03 |
| alterego | ~karma | 23:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | infobot, karma | 23:03 |
| infobot | alterego has neutral karma | 23:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | infobot, karma | 23:04 |
| b-man | ~nickometer alterego | 23:04 |
| infobot | 'alterego' is 0.000% lame, b-man | 23:04 |
| b-man | ~nickometer MohammadAG51> | 23:04 |
| infobot | 'MohammadAG51>' is 39.000% lame, b-man | 23:04 |
| b-man | err | 23:04 |
| b-man | lol | 23:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | ~karma | 23:05 |
| infobot | mohammadag51 has neutral karma | 23:05 |
| vldcnst | ~nickometer vldcnst | 23:05 |
| infobot | 'vldcnst' is 0.000% lame, vldcnst | 23:05 |
| vldcnst | good bot. | 23:05 |
| b-man | ~nickometer b-man | 23:05 |
| infobot | 'b-man' is 14.000% lame, b-man | 23:05 |
| vldcnst | very good bot. | 23:05 |
| lcuk | why does this make me want to go to the toilet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehmu-lTJXF0 | 23:05 |
| b-man | :) | 23:05 |
| flailingmonkey | ~nickometer flailingmonkey | 23:05 |
| infobot | 'flailingmonkey' is 0.000% lame, flailingmonkey | 23:05 |
| MohammadAG51 | ~karma MohammadAG | 23:05 |
| infobot | mohammadag has neutral karma | 23:05 |
| lcuk | ~karma lcuk | 23:06 |
| infobot | lcuk has karma of 2 | 23:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | fu | 23:06 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:06 |
| b-man | ~nickometer lcuk | 23:06 |
| infobot | 'lcuk' is 0.000% lame, b-man | 23:06 |
| alterego | Hahah | 23:06 |
| b-man | ~nickometer b-man | 23:06 |
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| lcuk | ~MohammadAG51++ | 23:06 |
| flailingmonkey | ~nickometer MohammadAG | 23:06 |
| infobot | 'b-man' is 14.000% lame, b-man | 23:06 |
| infobot | 'MohammadAG' is 8.000% lame, flailingmonkey | 23:06 |
| b-man | ;_; | 23:06 |
| alterego | What's infobots' karma about? | 23:06 |
| flailingmonkey | ~nickometer MohammadAG51 | 23:06 |
| infobot | 'MohammadAG51' is 31.000% lame, flailingmonkey | 23:06 |
| lcuk | when the end of the world happens the karma will be taken into account | 23:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol | 23:06 |
| SpeedEvil | ~nickometer GAN900 | 23:06 |
| infobot | 'GAN900' is 69.000% lame, speedevil | 23:06 |
| alterego | Hah | 23:06 |
| b-man | ~help | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | LOL | 23:07 |
| vldcnst | vldcnst++ | 23:07 |
| GAN900 | :( | 23:07 |
| flailingmonkey | thats why people haven't abandoned Maemo yet | 23:07 |
| vldcnst | ~vldcnst++ | 23:07 |
| vldcnst | <infobot> please don't karma yourself | 23:07 |
| vldcnst | aww man. | 23:07 |
| lcuk | ~flailingmonkey++ | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol | 23:07 |
| b-man | ~uptime | 23:07 |
| lcuk | vldcnst, you will go blind | 23:07 |
| flailingmonkey | ~karma | 23:07 |
| infobot | flailingmonkey has karma of 1 | 23:07 |
| lcuk | like MohammadAG51 | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | ~karma | 23:07 |
| flailingmonkey | :-) | 23:07 |
| b-man | ~lobotomy | 23:07 |
| infobot | I feel different somehow. | 23:07 |
| b-man | lol | 23:07 |
| *** dneary has joined #maemo | 23:08 | |
| * lcuk watches relaxing mountain stream video | 23:08 | |
| alterego | heh | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | ~karma | 23:08 |
| infobot | mohammadag51 has karma of 1 | 23:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | yay | 23:08 |
| alterego | Awww | 23:08 |
| vldcnst | ~$who++ | 23:08 |
| flailingmonkey | ~Mece++ | 23:08 |
| b-man | ~$10.00 | 23:08 |
| vldcnst | well that failed. | 23:08 |
| b-man | ~$10 | 23:08 |
| b-man | hmm | 23:08 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: That's no stream! | 23:09 |
| DocAvalanche | PLEASE forget ibot karma concept! | 23:09 |
| flailingmonkey | ~alterego++ | 23:09 |
| flailingmonkey | hehehe | 23:09 |
| b-man | ~lart everyone | 23:09 |
| * infobot eats everyone's liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti | 23:09 | |
| * MohammadAG51 forgets what he said | 23:09 | |
| alterego | Heh | 23:09 |
| vldcnst | ~alterego-- | 23:10 |
| flailingmonkey | ~encrypt | 23:10 |
| infobot | turns plaintext words into encrypted strings in a variety of ways.. URL: http://suso.org/~suso/encrypt/ | 23:10 |
| vldcnst | don't give free karma. | 23:10 |
| alterego | thanks flailingmonkey | 23:10 |
| b-man | ~burn himself | 23:10 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 23:10 | |
| MohammadAG51 | herself* | 23:10 |
| alterego | ~burn ~labotomy | 23:10 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over ~labotomy, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 23:10 | |
| alterego | heh, oh well, no batch processing thwn :P | 23:11 |
| b-man | ~main | 23:11 |
| infobot | methinks main is a topic that doesn't work. | 23:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol | 23:11 |
| b-man | rofl | 23:11 |
| b-man | ~upsidedow | 23:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | infobot, pr1.3 | 23:12 |
| infobot | i heard pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now..... | 23:12 |
| *** marcels has quit IRC | 23:12 | |
| BugBlue | :D | 23:12 |
| flailingmonkey | ~MeeGo | 23:12 |
| infobot | [meego] http://meego.com an opensource distribution for netbooks and mobile devices | 23:12 |
| vldcnst | ~ignore * except owner | 23:12 |
| * infobot sticks her fingers in her ears. "La, la, la! I can't hear you, * except owner!" | 23:12 | |
| vldcnst | cry. | 23:12 |
| b-man | hmm | 23:12 |
| b-man | 23:13 | |
| infobot | well, google is http://lmgtfy.com/?q=google | 23:13 |
| b-man | lol | 23:13 |
| zash | lol | 23:13 |
| b-man | ~kernel | 23:13 |
| infobot | Linux kernel versions, linux-next: next-20100614, mainline 2.6: 2.6.35-rc3, snapshot 2.6: 2.6.35-rc2-git6, stable 2.6: 2.6.34 , stable 2.6.33: 2.6.33.5 , stable 2.6.32: 2.6.32.15 , stable 2.6.31: 2.6.31.13 , stable 2.6.27: 2.6.27.47 , stable 2.4.37: 2.4.37.9 | 23:13 |
| *** SuRfDeMoN has joined #maemo | 23:13 | |
| b-man | heh | 23:14 |
| * flailingmonkey reads h-e-n mailing list | 23:14 | |
| * b-man resumes fixing his broken sdk | 23:14 | |
| * MohammadAG51 fixes his SDK on each reboot | 23:14 | |
| flailingmonkey | DocAvalanche, any news about jrbme? | 23:14 |
| SuRfDeMoN | Hi, I've made a qt4 & python app that I can run from terminal using run-standalone.sh python app.py however I would like to have it run from an icon on the desktop, does anyone know how I can do this ? | 23:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | .desktop file | 23:15 |
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| xDaReaperx | the apps in extras-testing are not safe to install right ? | 23:15 |
| DocAvalanche | yeah, I'm postponing that to cure infobot from damage done by fools | 23:15 |
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| MohammadAG51 | :/ | 23:16 |
| flailingmonkey | :-p no more karma then | 23:17 |
| alterego | I'd quite like to integrate sshfs into the default filemanager ... | 23:17 |
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| flailingmonkey | lets do it | 23:17 |
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| alterego | What does filemanager do to check mounts? | 23:17 |
| alterego | Is it vfs? | 23:17 |
| flailingmonkey | isn't it just udev? | 23:18 |
| flailingmonkey | well, we can see its code on gitoreous | 23:18 |
| alterego | No, udev will trigger a mount. | 23:18 |
| flailingmonkey | maybe it looks in /media? | 23:19 |
| SuRfDeMoN | MohammadAG51: where is the .desktop file? | 23:19 |
| alterego | I was wondring if anyone knew offhand rather than me needing to research :) | 23:19 |
| joga | I tried sshfs once with n900 but when the network connection hung, the whole device pretty much hung when something started to wait for it | 23:19 |
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| *** lardman|afk is now known as lardman | 23:19 | |
| lardman | is qt.nokia.com down for other people | 23:19 |
| lardman | ? | 23:19 |
| joga | so I deemed that at least with default configuration it made the device pretty much unusable | 23:20 |
| joga | (I'd like to use it though, maybe I'll try later with more thinking) | 23:20 |
| lpotter | lardman: works here | 23:20 |
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| alterego | flailingmonkey: yeah, it checks for mounted dirs under /media (just mounted tempfs under it) | 23:20 |
| lardman | lpotter: thanks, perhaps it was just my laptop playing sillybuggers | 23:21 |
| flailingmonkey | would having / access throug filemanager be nice? | 23:21 |
| flailingmonkey | *through | 23:21 |
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| MohammadAGRX-51 | not really | 23:21 |
| alterego | Not really | 23:21 |
| joga | bind mount to /media? ;) | 23:21 |
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| alterego | Heh | 23:21 |
| MohammadAG51 | copycat | 23:21 |
| joga | if I need to mess with / I use the shell anyway | 23:22 |
| joga | but sometimes the "N900" is a bit confusing | 23:22 |
| flailingmonkey | thats been my impression, that people who need to muck about use terminal, and those that don't need to are a bit likely to break things | 23:22 |
| * MohammadAG51 reminds #maemo someone deleted /usr cause it used up too much space | 23:22 | |
| joga | hehe | 23:23 |
| * flailingmonkey is aghast | 23:23 | |
| lardman | that's ok, you only need /bin and /lib ;) | 23:23 |
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| alterego | lardman: not if you want xterm or ssh access :P | 23:24 |
| lardman | well, yeah.. | 23:25 |
| lardman | :) | 23:25 |
| joga | but if you have them in memory.. | 23:25 |
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| DocAvalanche | alterego: flailingmonkey: please consider http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/cuteexplorer/ | 23:25 |
| DocAvalanche | HFM is broken by design | 23:26 |
| killefiz | I think I need help. My n900 had errors on the internal flash ( http://fpaste.org/vzPF/ ). I took it to a nokia shop, they sent it somewhere, I got to wait three weeks and now it's back with the same error :( | 23:26 |
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| joga | killefiz :/ | 23:27 |
| DocAvalanche | flailingmonkey: and I completely disagree with MohammadAG51 on usefulness of access to / | 23:27 |
| killefiz | can anyone think of anything I could do to convince the repair center that this is an issue that they cannot "fix" by reflashing the device? | 23:27 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocAvalanche, I hate you too mate :) | 23:28 |
| DocAvalanche | MohammadAG51: how could user 'user' break things when he's got a filehandle to / ?? o.O Is maemo really that fsckdup wrt permissions?? | 23:28 |
| lardman | killefiz: run fsck on the device? | 23:28 |
| DocAvalanche | flailingmonkey: ^^^ to you too | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocAvalanche, err, users know how to launch an app as root | 23:29 |
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| DocAvalanche | MohammadAG51: so WHAT?? | 23:29 |
| DocAvalanche | that's an absolute BS argument | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | DocAvalanche, we don't need more shit on tmo, it's bad as it is already | 23:29 |
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| DocAvalanche | uhuh | 23:29 |
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| MohammadAG51 | the only thing / access is useful for is to download files through microb | 23:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | actually | 23:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | hildon-fm is fscked up | 23:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | I couldn't copy to a USB stick with it | 23:31 |
| mece | MohammadAG51, actually, hildon-fm would be nice for opening files too, if it had / access. | 23:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | mount --bind / onto somewhere on media | 23:32 |
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| mece | anyway, bye. | 23:32 |
| killefiz | lardman: how am I supposed to fsck the /home partition? | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | reboot I guess | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | not sure if it works on maemo | 23:32 |
| DocAvalanche | MohammadAG51: no!!! we already have enough BS on maemo | 23:32 |
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| MohammadAG51 | but touch /forcefsck works on Ubuntu | 23:33 |
| greenfly | only the superuser should be allowed to fsck | 23:33 |
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| lardman | killefiz: it will probably not make Hildon very happy, but ssh in, become root and umount the device | 23:34 |
| lardman | at least that's what I'd try | 23:34 |
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| DocAvalanche | greenfly: and that's what exactly now? the postscriptum under the fsck manpage? | 23:34 |
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| greenfly | DocAvalanche: just general common-sense role separation | 23:34 |
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| DocAvalanche | as done on every sane Unix installation since 1972 | 23:35 |
| crashanddie | [citation needed] | 23:35 |
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| greenfly | the fsck command requires write access to that partition's device | 23:36 |
| greenfly | (and of course read access) | 23:36 |
| * DocAvalanche *yawn* | 23:36 | |
| greenfly | if you have that level of access you can bypass any access control on the file system itself | 23:36 |
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| killefiz | lardman: but what is that going to get me? I\m pretty sure that it's a hardware issue - don't you think? | 23:36 |
| valdyn | killefiz: your paste is broken | 23:37 |
| greenfly | *shrug* I thought this was common knowledge | 23:37 |
| lardman | yeah, but it's probably just some part of the flash drive being knackered, so at least that would mark the region and let you get on with life | 23:37 |
| * flailingmonkey came back | 23:37 | |
| DocAvalanche | greenfly: so WHY do you quote it then?? | 23:37 |
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| valdyn | alterego: firefox is in ovi store. | 23:38 |
| greenfly | DocAvalanche: someone talked about wanting to fsck /home as a user, and when I explained why that was a bad idea, you seemed to not understand, so I was trying to help explain why | 23:38 |
| joga | how would you even fsck as a user? | 23:39 |
| joga | especially your own home | 23:39 |
| DocAvalanche | greenfly: that's not a bad idea, that's a silly idea as it simply won't work | 23:40 |
| greenfly | joga: you'd have to have rw access to /dev/whatever | 23:40 |
| joga | greenfly: but that's not really good :) | 23:40 |
| greenfly | joga: agreed :) | 23:40 |
| Arkenoi | file-roller conflicts with gnome-nettool | 23:40 |
| joga | and you can fsck a read-only filesystem too, but not fix the errors | 23:40 |
| joga | (a mounted one, I mean) | 23:40 |
| DocAvalanche | jgfsck "your own home" is a meaningless statement. You can fsck volumes only | 23:41 |
| joga | DocAvalanche, well I meant the filesystem where home resides on, in this case the flash | 23:41 |
| joga | (or, a partition on the flash) ;) | 23:42 |
| DocAvalanche | joga: fsck... | 23:42 |
| DocAvalanche | joga: that filesystem is not "your own whatever" so this will fail | 23:42 |
| killefiz | lardman: no - I want a working device - I paid 600 EUR for this thing | 23:42 |
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| DocAvalanche | joga: refer to a good howto about permissions under Unix | 23:43 |
| killefiz | valdyn: what is wrong with it? Works fine for me - http://fpaste.org/vzPF/ | 23:43 |
| flailingmonkey | tell him what the fsck flag is for read-only, so he can see if there are even any problems it would be able to fix | 23:43 |
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| joga | DocAvalanche: I think you're just misinterpreting me | 23:43 |
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| valdyn | killefiz: The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request. | 23:44 |
| joga | funny, works for me too.. | 23:45 |
| valdyn | killefiz: "Apache Server at fpaste.org Port 80" | 23:45 |
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| joga | valdyn: try this http://pastebin.com/bAyDLJHx | 23:46 |
| valdyn | joga: i see, the server works | 23:46 |
| killefiz | joga: thanks | 23:46 |
| valdyn | joga: but theres a broken router, i know its not mine | 23:46 |
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| joga | I guess, if it works for us | 23:47 |
| valdyn | joga: i can load it | 23:47 |
| valdyn | joga: but squid breaks it | 23:47 |
| joga | ok | 23:47 |
| flailingmonkey | is anyone other than Tommi Asp working on cuteexplorer? | 23:48 |
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| SuRfDeMoN | adding a .desktop file to /usr/share/applications crashed my n900 luckily restarting it made it come back to life, does anyone have a link to a good tutorial on how to put a shortcut to a python qt app on the desktop ? | 23:52 |
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| flailingmonkey | DocAvalanche: you said hfm is broken by design, but didn't elaborate. where does it fail? | 23:52 |
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| alterego | flailingmonkey: he thinks that because Nokia made it intentionally locked down for normal users it's broken by that design. | 23:54 |
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| alterego | Hiding the OS is a very good idea for normal users and it has a pretty similar UX to the symbian fm | 23:55 |
| greenfly | *shrug* having a package to get you root easily available in a non-development repo I think is a good tradeoff with giving people who know the access they need, and acknowledging (by installing the package) that they have some sense of the implications | 23:56 |
| greenfly | everyone else requires you to jailbreak stuff | 23:56 |
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| alterego | indeed, I just like things not being cluttered. | 23:58 |
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| alterego | The filemanager is fine for my user data, everything else I use sshfs from my laptop as root on the device or terminal. | 23:59 |
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