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| jacekowski | can anybody send me a copy of n8x0 bme? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| mece | Duckboot == phellarv? OIC. | 00:03 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, ping? | 00:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pong | 00:05 |
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| Duckboot | mece: Correct | 00:09 |
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| mece | good to know :D | 00:09 |
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| luke-jr | jacekowski: no | 00:10 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: also, N800 and N810 have different BMEs | 00:10 |
| jacekowski | i know that | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | in any case, nobody can legally send you a copy | 00:11 |
| jacekowski | that's why i'm asking for it | 00:11 |
| jacekowski | and i don't care about legally | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | ... | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | you own a device? | 00:11 |
| luke-jr | just get it from Nokia, legally | 00:12 |
| jacekowski | i own n900 | 00:12 |
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| wazd | joppu: around? :) | 00:13 |
| SpeedEvil | bme is _utterly_ different AIUI | 00:13 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: then I guess it's up to you to make the case that infringement on Nokia's BME copyright has no damages | 00:13 |
| * luke-jr ponders | 00:14 | |
| Wolfie | a community driven app store would be great, as long as the whole community _doesn't_ have a say on how stuff works | 00:14 |
| luke-jr | on another hand, I'm not aware of any reason I couldn't share my N810's MAC address either | 00:14 |
| luke-jr | but I don't really want Nokia to block me from their downloads | 00:14 |
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| Wolfie | but that's only my 0.02e | 00:14 |
| luke-jr | Wolfie: why? | 00:15 |
| _llll_ | isnt that what extras is for Wolfie ? | 00:15 |
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| Wolfie | luke-jr: design by committee isn't one of the most acclaimed ways to do things, don't you agree | 00:15 |
| Wolfie | the bikeshed problem, etc... | 00:15 |
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| luke-jr | Wolfie: so everyone makes branches and some central developer(s) decide what to merge | 00:15 |
| Wolfie | luke-jr: um... are we talking about the same thing? | 00:16 |
| luke-jr | if someone doesn't like it, they fork | 00:16 |
| Wolfie | or have I just misunderstood it | 00:16 |
| Wolfie | i'm talking about this http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55531 | 00:16 |
| luke-jr | or do you mean the vetting process? | 00:16 |
| jacekowski | forks are painfull | 00:17 |
| Wolfie | sorry for being a 15mins late ;) | 00:17 |
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| jacekowski | people tends to create lots of them | 00:17 |
| jacekowski | each with different features | 00:17 |
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| jacekowski | and incompatible | 00:17 |
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| jacekowski | so you don't get one full program | 00:17 |
| pupnik | arthur "two sheds" jackson | 00:17 |
| jacekowski | you get pieces | 00:17 |
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| Duckboot | jacekowski: merging them are more painful. | 00:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Then you gegt sporks. | 00:17 |
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| Duckboot | svn merge = spork? | 00:18 |
| luke-jr | svn merge is very good nowadays | 00:18 |
| jacekowski | no | 00:18 |
| jacekowski | spoon+fork | 00:18 |
| jacekowski | spork | 00:18 |
| Duckboot | Unknown command: 'spoon' | 00:19 |
| Duckboot | ;-P | 00:19 |
| jacekowski | /usr/lib/libcal.so ? that's for alarms? | 00:19 |
| luke-jr | no | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | calendar, I thought? | 00:20 |
| luke-jr | libcal reads/writes the private settings area | 00:20 |
| luke-jr | like password, MAC address, etc | 00:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | I've just been trying to document the hw though. ah | 00:20 |
| jacekowski | well, it was looking like that | 00:21 |
| jacekowski | but i found piece of code that was using cal_ calls to do allarms | 00:21 |
| jacekowski | alarms* | 00:21 |
| Duckboot | jacekowski: Probably treats alarms like calendar entries with a notification. | 00:22 |
| jacekowski | http://maemo.org/api_refs/3.x/alarm-api/alarmcheck_8c-source.html | 00:23 |
| jacekowski | i suppose nobody knows what's under BME-PMM-BLOCK01? | 00:25 |
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| Duckboot | jacekowski: Hmm - If I'm not on the wrong field - The alarm is a special kind of Calendar entry type "alarm". | 00:26 |
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| Duckboot | Long time since I coded C. | 00:28 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:29 |
| Duckboot | Bah - Gotta hang some clothes for drying | 00:29 |
| MohammadAG51 | noobmonk3y, | 00:30 |
| noobmonk3y | MohammadAG51, | 00:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | your app just pulled in a troutload of dependencies | 00:30 |
| noobmonk3y | ? | 00:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | don't do it again, please | 00:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | :P | 00:30 |
| noobmonk3y | lols | 00:30 |
| * noobmonk3y grins | 00:30 | |
| MohammadAG51 | python 4.7.3 | 00:30 |
| noobmonk3y | :P | 00:30 |
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| joppu | wazd: sure | 00:31 |
| wazd | joppu: hey there :) | 00:32 |
| crashanddie | find what's wrong with this comment: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1679082&cid=32497220 | 00:32 |
| joppu | so what's up? | 00:32 |
| crashanddie | "It's not a crime, it's a crime" | 00:32 |
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| wazd | joppu: have you discovered anything bout strange fields in theme template, 4 big squares on the right to the accept/reject buttons | 00:33 |
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| wazd | joppu: they appeared in 1.2 template | 00:33 |
| joppu | nope | 00:33 |
| ManoftheSea | How to link gpg to the email client, so I can send encrypted mail? | 00:34 |
| joppu | but the 6 or so boxes in one of the vkeyboard areas are the new virtual keyboard buttons | 00:34 |
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| joppu | are they email widged backgrounds? | 00:35 |
| wazd | joppu: maybe they're e-mail widget backgrounds but I doubt it, sice it's still skinned with marina made for pre 1.2 | 00:37 |
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| joppu | I bet it's the email widget, I think I read a changelog on gitorious | 00:38 |
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| lbt | how do I do a screenshot on the N900 | 00:39 |
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| joppu | control+shift+p | 00:40 |
| lbt | aha... now, how do I do a portrait one? over ssh I guess... but I can't find a command) | 00:40 |
| lbt | :) | 00:41 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: around? | 00:43 |
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| MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, no | 00:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | :) | 00:44 |
| joppu | wazd: http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-theme-layout-5/commit/2cf500fe3f8241e6c2efa84f0ab98462dafc7311 | 00:44 |
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| pigeon | hmm, that n900 dual sim thing sure is weird... | 00:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | crashanddie, sup? | 00:45 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG51: PM | 00:45 |
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| jacekowski | any info on /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/suspend content? | 00:47 |
| [[[paul]]] | lbt: i think cpu meter applet has a delayed screenshot function, you can press it and then have 20 seconds to get phone into portrait and press the camera key to take the screenshot | 00:48 |
| lbt | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=[paul]: OK, I'll look at that ... ta | 00:48 |
| jacekowski | you can take screenshot with some weird keyboard shortcut | 00:48 |
| lbt | ctrl-shift-p | 00:49 |
| [[[paul]]] | but not in portrait, because keyboard is closed :) | 00:49 |
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| DrGrov | How can I find this theme? http://www.mobile-geeks.com/2010/02/09/maemo-theme-nuvofre-theme-for-nokia-n900/ | 00:51 |
| [[[paul]]] | lbt: specifically it is "load-applet" package | 00:51 |
| [[[paul]]] | just tried and it took portrait screenshot with success :) | 00:51 |
| DrGrov | I don't seem to find it in the repos even though I've looked throughly... | 00:52 |
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| pigeon | DrGrov: it's in extra-devel and extra-testing | 00:54 |
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| Duckboot | jacekowski: musb_hdrc/suspend - Dunno really - But seems to have something to do with OTG and sending suspend signals to OTG-devices? | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=[paul]: (not in portrait) you need really skinny fingers ;-P | 00:55 |
| lbt | yeah... and it does it itself in C/gtk by gdk_pixbuf_get_from_drawable(root_window) ... so no simple call to a dbus service. And the key combo doesn't show up on dbus-monitor either | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck your nick, \[\[\[paul\]\]\] | 00:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nobody will care to talk to you | 00:57 |
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| wazd | joppu: interesting :) | 00:58 |
| joppu | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=705233&postcount=93 | 00:59 |
| joppu | oh nice, someone went ahead to rape my work | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=[paul] | 01:01 |
| * infobot gives http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=[paul] a good seeing to | 01:01 | |
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| lbt | joppu: that would be called "open source"... not "rape" :) | 01:01 |
| joppu | Did I release my work under permissive lisence? | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=fuck | 01:02 |
| lbt | is it on Extras-devel? | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah I know it's *my* client | 01:02 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: mine too | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | still such nickname is a brainfuck | 01:03 |
| lbt | joppu: seriously... is it not a permissive license? If not you must remove it from Extras-devel and it would be polite to tell fms before he spends more time on it. | 01:04 |
| joppu | he could still have, like, asked before doing such a thing | 01:04 |
| lbt | well :) | 01:04 |
| joppu | you can't apply software lisences to artwork really | 01:04 |
| lbt | he's renamed it and credited the original from what I see ... | 01:04 |
| orospakr | Hi! I'm looking for the procedure for building Maemo 5 for the N900 from source (and possibly dropping the proprietary components back in as required, GLES drivers etc.). I'm thinking of buying the Nokia N900 hardware, but being able to "make world" would be really useful. | 01:05 |
| lbt | Maemo is a place where we build on each others work... | 01:05 |
| joppu | And I didn't release it under creative commons, did I? | 01:05 |
| orospakr | I've been browsing the project wiki and haven't really found what I'm looking for yet. | 01:05 |
| lbt | dunno... I just asked you | 01:05 |
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| lbt | orospakr: see MeeGo N900 | 01:05 |
| orospakr | lbt, hmm, MeeGo, as I understand it, is rather different from Maemo. | 01:06 |
| lbt | it is... | 01:06 |
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| lbt | but realistically your goal is not do-able | 01:06 |
| lbt | it is very much what Mer wanted to do | 01:06 |
| joppu | If he is such a wizard with themes, he could probably make his own from scratch rather that basing it off other people's work | 01:07 |
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| joppu | I'm only bitching about this because you don't do stuff like this behind my back | 01:07 |
| lbt | joppu: in the OSS world we tend to support and assist each other... building off your work is a compliment | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | lbt: he wants a 'hello world' | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | lbt: even custom kernels are feasible | 01:08 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: "make world" :) | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooops | 01:08 |
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| lbt | ie a bare-metal build of Fremantle | 01:08 |
| lbt | I got a fair way towards that on the OBS | 01:08 |
| lbt | by grabbing all the released source | 01:08 |
| lbt | but never got as far as installing it anywhere | 01:09 |
| lbt | and frankly unless it's a "just because" project | 01:09 |
| lbt | it would be much more productive to do MeeGo ARM | 01:09 |
| joppu | and why the heck is the package credited under my name? It's not like I'd use such crappy colors for theme components... | 01:09 |
| joppu | Someone might get the wrong idea | 01:09 |
| joppu | as if it's like supported by me | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | lbt: ack | 01:10 |
| ShadowJK | orospakr, Maemo 5 isn't entirely open source. Also I don't think we know how Nokia does "make world". Maybe they just build every package, in the SDK, manually? :P | 01:10 |
| orospakr | joppu, lbt is right. that's why Free Software is useful. Stuff doesn't work the way you want it to? Change it. And that process repeats so ad infinitum. Someone spending their time to improve something you made really is a complement. | 01:10 |
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| orospakr | lbt, meego isn't really as interesting to me. not really keen on RPM and the MeeGo UI. Maemo is much more interesting. And it *is* ostensibly Free Software... | 01:11 |
| orospakr | joppu, that said, people should honour the license that people put on things they release. | 01:11 |
| lbt | orospakr: sure... like I said... if you want to contribute to "the future" then MeeGo ... if you want to do your own thing then Maemo ;) | 01:11 |
| lbt | (and I'm sitting here on Debian) | 01:12 |
| lbt | not liking the whole rpm/spec thing | 01:12 |
| lbt | but doing it anyway :) | 01:12 |
| orospakr | lbt, well, "the future" is just a proposal. if there's code out there now that does what I want, then I should probably use and work on that. | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | orospakr: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/openness/pr1.1/ | 01:13 |
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| lbt | sure... just pointing out that you're not the first... I spent 6 months of my life 12hrsx7 working on exactly that. | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | orospakr: and aiui a lot of the closed-source binaries/blobs can't be 'just installed', they come with the image | 01:14 |
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| orospakr | DocScrutinizer, huh. What do the percentage figures mean? | 01:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lines of code? dunno, see footnote | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html | 01:15 |
| lbt | orospakr: what it means is that you'll need to replace huge swathes of maemo closed stuff to get anywhere | 01:15 |
| orospakr | in a word, fail. | 01:15 |
| orospakr | that is too bad. :( | 01:15 |
| lbt | heh... not even close to a fail | 01:15 |
| joppu | more like a disgrace. do I really need to stamp a huge cc-nd lisence to stop people from stealing my work? | 01:15 |
| lbt | work like that encouraged a completely different % breakdown in MeeGo | 01:16 |
| lbt | joppu: yes | 01:16 |
| joppu | *cc-by-nd | 01:16 |
| lbt | around here we share by default | 01:16 |
| lbt | sorry but that's how we are | 01:16 |
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| orospakr | joppu, sadly, I wouldn't use such a theme. | 01:17 |
| lbt | joppu: frankly if I was fms I'd be pissed off at you | 01:17 |
| * microlith watches trackerd go high cpu usage while on battery | 01:17 | |
| lbt | for not making it clear that you were not sharing and his work is going to be wasted | 01:17 |
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| lbt | clearly he's not here joppu so go and say something on that pmo post if you want anything done about it. It's just a shame you feel that way. :) | 01:19 |
| microlith | joppu: horrible thieves. You should file a lawsuit | 01:19 |
| microlith | . | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | orospakr: develop for (CAL area, etc).. Those abilities are hard to quantify. Looks bad on paper in numbers, but great if you look into it. (Carsten Munk) | 01:19 |
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| joppu | but serously, you can't apply software lisences to artwork. I'd be happy if someone would fix up my messy non-optimized code, but messing with someones artistic view is a whole different thing | 01:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | CC isn't about software | 01:22 |
| * noobmonk3y is cream crackered | 01:22 | |
| noobmonk3y | nights alls :) :) | 01:22 |
| orospakr | DocScrutinizer, perhaps. The Radio interface stuff being nonfree is one of the more problematic pieces, I think. | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, sometimes | 01:22 |
| orospakr | joppu, how so? both CC and free software licenses make specific provision for preserving the integrity of the original work; the person who modified it can't pass of their changes as yours. | 01:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | though you got pnatd to talk AT to the modem | 01:23 |
| orospakr | s/of/off/ | 01:23 |
| infobot | orospakr meant: joppu, how so? both CC and free sofftware licenses make specific provision for preserving the integrity of the original work; the person who modified it can't pass of their changes as yours. | 01:23 |
| orospakr | er, heh. nevermind my broken regex. | 01:23 |
| Duckboot | Updated the "Appstore"-thread - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=706214#post706214 - Discuss. | 01:23 |
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| joppu | I just sent today a full svg template of one of my themes to a person because he asked nicely | 01:24 |
| orospakr | oh god, App Stores are the worst distribution antipattern since the invention of "setup.exe". | 01:24 |
| orospakr | apt-get and repository please, thanks. | 01:24 |
| joppu | But you don't do this under by damn back | 01:24 |
| Duckboot | orospakr: Well - for you and me and some others that is the best way, but not for the casual user. | 01:25 |
| orospakr | joppu, er. If I had to contact the original author for permission to modify some component out there in the community, no work could get done. | 01:25 |
| orospakr | anyway, if you don't want to contribute to a community, then don't. | 01:26 |
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| orospakr | Duckboot, that's just a matter of UI. In some senses an App Store and a repository are the same idea. Just that the non-free section might have a payment interface in front of it. | 01:26 |
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| asj | if you made a community app store you would have to call it like "window" in finish, or NotATurd in finish... | 01:27 |
| Duckboot | orospakr: Yes - Correct, and the casual user wants that easy-access UI. | 01:27 |
| orospakr | Duckboot, :) | 01:27 |
| orospakr | I believe Maemo already has that part. I very much like the definite process for submitting community packages. | 01:28 |
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| Duckboot | orospakr: Me too, but we're getting a smaller and smaller community. I was bitching like hell when the internet got commercial, and not some special thing for researchers and student in universities - But then I saw the benefits in the sheer growth | 01:30 |
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| orospakr | being commercial is not an inherently bad thing -- code for money is great. artificial barriers, however, are not. free software doesn't preclude getting paid for the work. | 01:31 |
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| Duckboot | orospakr: I agree again, but there are no good solutions for making money out of free software atm (imho). | 01:33 |
| orospakr | huh? I disagree. Lots of people are paid to work on free software. customers just want to spend money to make stuff work. | 01:33 |
| Duckboot | orospakr: A business model is of course getting paid for upgrades and service plans, but that do not aply to Cellphones and Netbooks. | 01:34 |
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| Duckboot | I work in a company which is based on free software, but those models are not easily transferred to end-user apps and shiny things | 01:35 |
| joppu | I find it rather ironic how fms likes to release his emulators as closed source binary blobs... | 01:36 |
| jacekowski | have anybody tried if alarms work on switched off phone | 01:36 |
| Duckboot | Mass consumer markets are more like "Fire and forget". | 01:36 |
| jacekowski | ( as they used to on old 5110 and 3210 ) | 01:36 |
| orospakr | Duckboot, which, by the way, is one of the biggest issues I have with the so-called "consumer" market. | 01:36 |
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| jacekowski | orospakr: but free spftware means that lot of code that just shouldn't see light of the day is used by millions of people | 01:37 |
| orospakr | jacekowski, huh? | 01:37 |
| jacekowski | orospakr: i found very interesting thing in BME couple days ago | 01:37 |
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| Duckboot | orospakr: Well - I do not believe I can change the people (I'm old and disillusioned). | 01:38 |
| Duckboot | orospakr: Your average joe is stupid, and just wants something new and shiny for his phone. | 01:38 |
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| lbt | Duckboot: more "ignorant" (and often "selfish") than stupid | 01:40 |
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| * orospakr is taking account of the list of proprietary components. Seems like (GL driver aside, gave up on those years ago), a free build of Maemo 5 would lack the stock browser, contacts (I don't even see why that piece is non-free. Don't they use Telepathy?), all of the network UI, cellular/3G support (RIL missing), some small bits of nokia value-add (osso backup, facebook, whatever), some status bar plugins, the theme artwork. | 01:40 | |
| lbt | you need a fair amount of insight to really get why OSS and open standards and stuff are good for society as a whole | 01:40 |
| lbt | orospakr: and would be called "Mer" | 01:41 |
| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 01:42 |
| pexi | or losing a game of monopoly | 01:42 |
| orospakr | Here's the thing; I wouldn't mind running a few proprietary bits, but I want to choose to use them specifically. Take CyanogenMod for Android; it's a custom build of the Android Open Source trees. The few proprietary components that are important are dragged in by a shell script. | 01:42 |
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| lbt | orospakr: uh huh... and we (Mer) got permission from Nokia to do that... | 01:42 |
| Duckboot | lbt: Ignorant is the most describing word, yes. | 01:42 |
| orospakr | lbt, neat. darn shame that meego seems to have killed it. :( | 01:43 |
| lbt | Duckboot: and don't forget... in a nice way | 01:43 |
| Duckboot | lbt: Ofc ;-P | 01:43 |
| Duckboot | lbt: I would not dare to be an elitist. | 01:43 |
| lbt | orospakr: Meego didn't kill it.... Mer (we like to think) helped Nokia see the light with MeeGo | 01:43 |
| lbt | Duckboot: yeah... that survives until you meet the morons in person ;) | 01:44 |
| Duckboot | lbt: Hahaha | 01:44 |
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| orospakr | Did Mer ever merge freemantle and touch the N900? | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | sure | 01:45 |
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| lbt | orospakr: yup... and Nokia hired me and Stskeeps. He's working on the MeeGo on N900 and I'm working on build systems | 01:46 |
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| Duckboot | lbt: Then make sure crosscompiling to Maemoe is easypeasy then ;-P | 01:47 |
| Duckboot | s/Maemoe/Maemo - Damn - I'm getting tired | 01:47 |
| lbt | Duckboot: the community OBS will be able to target MeeGo and Fremantle with the same tarball... good enough? | 01:48 |
| orospakr | lbt, okay. maybe a more meaningful question for me to ask is where MeeGo's UI stuff will go. I quite like what I've seen of Maemo's UI. Moblin seems to be little more than a web-tablet. | 01:48 |
| Duckboot | lbt: It's a start. | 01:48 |
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| lbt | orospakr: that's because meego as released is moblin based... you haven't seen the handheld UI yet | 01:48 |
| lbt | which will be derived from Maemo/Qt | 01:48 |
| orospakr | aha! that sounds more promising. | 01:48 |
| Duckboot | lbt: You've seen it? | 01:49 |
| lbt | no | 01:49 |
| lbt | just open discussion including last TSG | 01:49 |
| orospakr | lbt, where is the git repository? | 01:49 |
| Duckboot | Mmm | 01:49 |
| lbt | orospakr: google... but gitorious and see wiki.meego.com | 01:49 |
| lbt | orospakr: frankly it's still a mess | 01:49 |
| orospakr | fair enough! | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro for president | 01:50 |
| lbt | but I continue to believe that is because many of those involved don't really know how to be open | 01:50 |
| lbt | but they're trying | 01:50 |
| Duckboot | DocScrutinizer: Hmm? | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=706184#post706184 | 01:50 |
| Duckboot | Hrmf | 01:52 |
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| orospakr | lbt, actually sounds rather promising. :) | 01:53 |
| lbt | orospakr: glad you think so.... | 01:54 |
| lbt | it's been frustrating but we're getting somewhere | 01:54 |
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| flailingmonkey | brb | 01:55 |
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| orospakr | lbt, question is, to what degree will hardware manufacturers use MeeGo as a base to build entirely locked down environments shot through with non-free gunk? I guess time will tell on that one. :) | 01:56 |
| lbt | it's a worry | 01:56 |
| orospakr | as long as MeeGo stands well on its own, that hopefully will be minimized a bit. | 01:57 |
| lbt | and the aegis security framework brings even more control | 01:57 |
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| lbt | tied in with TPM | 01:57 |
| lbt | but... it's an open-source TPM | 01:57 |
| flailingmonkey | mmm, the sweet poison | 01:58 |
| lbt | yup | 01:58 |
| orospakr | sounds interesting! | 01:58 |
| orospakr | hm, drilling down into the repository list on gitorious is proving tricky. | 01:58 |
| lbt | it is .... http://wiki.maemo.org/MaemoSecurity | 01:58 |
| orospakr | hm, much potential for evil there. | 01:59 |
| orospakr | the answer there really is to buy devices from manufacturers directly, and not let the telco be the customer. | 02:00 |
| lbt | correct | 02:00 |
| flailingmonkey | indeed, but that can't compete with the subsidies | 02:00 |
| Duckboot | Blargh - My ISP has DNS-problems - time to go to bed then. Nighty night. | 02:01 |
| flailingmonkey | night | 02:01 |
| toresbe | Duckboot: ngt, you too? :) | 02:02 |
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| lbt | what price freedom? | 02:03 |
| toresbe | well, that saved me a router reboot. | 02:03 |
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| orospakr | lbt, seems like doc on this is sketchy right now. how does the MeeGo build system work? Can you give me the quick introduction? | 02:08 |
| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure | 02:09 |
| orospakr | aha, missed those somehow. | 02:09 |
| lbt | http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenSuse_Build_Service | 02:09 |
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| lbt | np they're newish and not cross-linked too well yet | 02:10 |
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| orospakr | so, the OpenSUSE build service. eeeenteresting. can it be used without a web browser? | 02:13 |
| lbt | oh yes | 02:13 |
| lbt | you can still follow the tutorial for the Mer/Build | 02:14 |
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| lbt | worth doing | 02:14 |
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| orospakr | It seems like there will ultimately be a single instance of OBS that people in the community will generally use, although there's nothing to preclude one from spinning up their own. Much like any other distro, I suppose! | 02:15 |
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| orospakr | Is "obs.meego.org" or similar alive yet? | 02:15 |
| lbt | I'm building it | 02:15 |
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| lbt | it's mainly up | 02:15 |
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| lbt | it'll be invite-only to a few old-hands to get it ready over the next week | 02:16 |
| flailingmonkey | cool | 02:16 |
| orospakr | lbt, wow, seems like I've popped my head in just as things are getting interesting. neat.\ | 02:16 |
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| lbt | yup.... we're seeing quite a lot of activity at the moment... new future for Maemo, more open, more toys... can't be bad | 02:17 |
| orospakr | sounds good! | 02:17 |
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| lbt | *nod* .... see why I said about meego now :) | 02:19 |
| flailingmonkey | also more griefers | 02:19 |
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| orospakr | incidentally... I happen to have a prerelease device here with a working Linux port, intended for Android. Manuf. wants to get different things running on it at some point. I wonder when I should start looking into bringing up a MeeGo image on it. | 02:19 |
| lbt | now | 02:19 |
| orospakr | I wonder how device ports are going to work from a build perspective. | 02:19 |
| zappa | ohh, I just jumped in and lbt's statements got me exicited for something but I don't know what. I'll wait and see. | 02:19 |
| orospakr | s/are going to// | 02:20 |
| infobot | orospakr meant: I wonder how device ports work from a build perspective. | 02:20 |
| lbt | orospakr: well, 2 approaches... community and official | 02:20 |
| lbt | community... talk to me and Stskeeps | 02:20 |
| lbt | official... I'd start with Stskeeps but I can find out | 02:21 |
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| orospakr | lbt, ah, I see what you mean. I'll go with community (ie., technical) for now. This would just be me poking at things on my own time. | 02:22 |
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| lbt | OK, try #mer to start with and #meego | 02:22 |
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| flailingmonkey | is jrbme still in planning, or has that work actually started up? | 02:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I think in plannign stages. | 02:28 |
| luke-jr | lbt: #meego-arm IIRC | 02:29 |
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| pupnik | flailingmonkey deserves an award for funniest nickname | 02:31 |
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| pupnik | maybe a prize named *after* him? to be awarded once a week to the t.m.o. poster who spazzes out with greatest drama? | 02:33 |
| * flailingmonkey graciously accepts | 02:33 | |
| flailingmonkey | :-) | 02:33 |
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| flailingmonkey | GeneralAntilles has been having a nervous breakdown :-( | 02:34 |
| lbt | night all | 02:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | I think a prize aimed at him would be funnier. | 02:37 |
| * SpeedEvil gets the prize coconut. | 02:37 | |
| * SpeedEvil loads the trebuchet. | 02:38 | |
| * flailingmonkey puts on my helmet | 02:39 | |
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| pupnik | fetcher le vache! | 02:40 |
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| * flailingmonkey starts building a wooden rabbit | 02:41 | |
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| pupnik | flailingmonkey: have you seen Monkey Drummer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YB08leFMRnM | 02:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | flailingmonkey: remember to varnish the wooden rabbit well. | 02:43 |
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| crashanddie | amazing, so many tools, and not even a philips screwdriver: http://www.flickr.com/photos/meanestindian/3248185596/sizes/o/ | 02:45 |
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| crashanddie | pupnik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Az_7U0-cK0 | 02:46 |
| flailingmonkey | pupnik, thats awesome | 02:46 |
| crashanddie | pupnik & flailingmonkey: happy dreams: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3far9oHZOsI | 02:48 |
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| flailingmonkey | creeeepy | 02:55 |
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| ShadowJK | uh | 02:57 |
| ShadowJK | wtf is wrong with wiki.maemo search? | 02:57 |
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| ShadowJK | surely "gps" should give some results | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | I think the word 'everything' covers it | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | N900 Hardware GPS | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | has some pointers | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_GPS | 02:58 |
| flailingmonkey | google + site:wiki.maemo.org works | 03:00 |
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| crashanddie | some people are mental | 03:21 |
| crashanddie | http://www.steampunkworkshop.com/organ-cockpit-desk | 03:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | Insanely awesome. | 03:24 |
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| pigeon | ditto | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.wired.com/images/slideshow/2007/06/gallery_nemo_office/nemo_09.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mancheganmadness.blogspot.com/2007/06/manchegan-madness-20000-leagues-deep.html&usg=__JySLMOw7bRQ0kRbpHIHUBIalo4Y=&h=387&w=580&sz=170&hl=en&start=28&sig2=Bghq5rNo6mN1mIQyBLe4jg&itbs=1&tbnid=l0PljawBh0xYgM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=134&prev=/images%3Fq%3D20000%2Bleagues%2Bunder%2Bthe%2Bsea%26start%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | http://mancheganmadness.blogspot.com/2007/06/manchegan-madness-20000-leagues-deep.html even | 03:28 |
| b-man | O_o | 03:28 |
| b-man | tinyurl? | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - I keep forgetting google makes URLs srupildy long | 03:29 |
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| asj | of course the guy wears suspenders | 03:33 |
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| pigeon | is there a status applet to show the date on the status bar? | 03:42 |
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| pigeon | guess not... | 03:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | There is an application to replace the operator name | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't know if you can add cron to that and flip it at midnight | 03:56 |
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| pigeon | heh yeah, i'm using that operator name thing too | 03:59 |
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| thunderfest | Any know off hand how tall in pixels the tile bar is in Maemo 5 | 04:08 |
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| vldcnst | 45px, I believe | 04:11 |
| thunderfest | vldcnst, thanks | 04:12 |
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| pigeon | does anyone know what is the package name for this app? http://themeegoblog.com/2010/06/08/irreco-widget-lets-you-control-your-tv-from-the-n900s-homescreen/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MaemoCentral+%28The+MeeGo+Blog%29 | 05:14 |
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| trip900 | whats up with the extras devel repo in 1.2? | 05:47 |
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| PolarFox | pigeon: irreco-widget ? | 06:15 |
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| pigeon | PolarFox: is it on your repo? it's not here with mine | 06:17 |
| pigeon | there are a lot of irreco-*, but not widget | 06:18 |
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| PolarFox | I think I saw it today.. my phone is... well.. somewhere.. But it might be in extras-devel still .. | 06:19 |
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| Macer | so | 06:30 |
| Macer | how goes meefail? | 06:30 |
| Macer | :) | 06:30 |
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| Macer | hm | 06:39 |
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| Macer | anybody know of any bbs software for linux that uses an ssh daemon? | 06:39 |
| cehteh | you can prolly put ssh in front of any bbs system, just make it the shell for the ssh logins | 06:42 |
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| asj | or just make the bbs the users login shell... | 06:43 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | buying a used n900 tomorrow - any tips for what to watch for? | 07:15 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | how do I know it is the most complete model (fm radio et al) | 07:16 |
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| arachnist | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: there is only one model, unless you're buying it in china/hong kong, india or some other country that has awkward rules for cell phones | 07:19 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | nope - 'merica | 07:24 |
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| cehteh | there are some cheap china plagiates which look quite similar but are in no way n900's | 07:26 |
| cehteh | differnt os, complete different features | 07:26 |
| cehteh | otherwise there is only one model, only the keyboard mat differs | 07:26 |
| cehteh | (local keys) | 07:26 |
| Chiku|dc | wat is the PR number for next firmware? | 07:26 |
| cehteh | the rest is all software | 07:26 |
| Chiku|dc | PR 1.2.1 ? | 07:26 |
| cehteh | will there be a next firmware? :) | 07:27 |
| Chiku|dc | how they will fixed bugs? | 07:27 |
| cehteh | do they? | 07:27 |
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| * cehteh doesnt really trust nokia :P | 07:28 | |
| cehteh | since the successor meego phone is on the way ... | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | which sounds like it sucks | 07:28 |
| luke-jr | <.< | 07:28 |
| cehteh | i think with 1.2 its usable now, the rest i can do by myself except the closed source bugs | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | yawn | 07:29 |
| cehteh | i still hope nokia will care for the device a little more, but i have some doubts | 07:29 |
| luke-jr | history says not | 07:29 |
| cehteh | yeah | 07:29 |
| cehteh | anyways i can live with it as is now | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | honestly, I couldn't care less for Maemo/MeeGo | 07:30 |
| cehteh | ack | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | but Nokia's closedness prevents most anything else | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | :( | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | basically, I have no loyalty to Nokia :) | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | whoever makes the best (hardware-wise and open-wise) device wins | 07:30 |
| cehteh | exactly | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | if it turns out to be Nokia, good for them; if not, oh well | 07:31 |
| cehteh | only happend to be nokia by coincidence this time .. next time it might be someone else | 07:31 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | cehteh, what would you check before buying a used n900? | 07:31 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | anything in terms of software? | 07:31 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | or accessories? | 07:31 |
| cehteh | while i still expect that my device will last some yeats | 07:31 |
| cehteh | years | 07:31 |
| cehteh | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: dunno, except for the oblivious things, mechanically ok, scratches, dead pixels, slider | 07:32 |
| cehteh | there are dead pixels sometimes even in new devices, you have to check if you can live with it | 07:33 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | the slider is what on the n900? | 07:33 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | "slider" | 07:33 |
| cehteh | battery? .. its replaceable anyways so even if there is a almost dead or 3rd party battery it wont be a problem | 07:33 |
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| cehteh | the keyboard slideout mechanics | 07:34 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | oh, so is the bat expensive? | 07:34 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | ah | 07:34 |
| cehteh | 10-20 Eur in europe, not that expensive | 07:34 |
| cehteh | (original, really recommended) | 07:34 |
| cehteh | there are cheap $3 batteries but these have no much charge and die soon | 07:34 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | okay, and I guess I'll just reload/upgrade the software after I purchase it anyway | 07:34 |
| pupnik | original is around 30 in retaul | 07:35 |
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| cehteh | from nokia | 07:35 |
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| cehteh | but you get original for 17Eur or so here | 07:35 |
| pupnik | nice | 07:35 |
| cehteh | you should check the usb socket .. if its bended or loose then dont buy | 07:35 |
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| cehteh | also the lens lid comes off on some devices, the black cap is just glued on the blue plastic part | 07:36 |
| cehteh | easily fixable, unless its already damaged or the tiny spring there got lost | 07:36 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | I think I've seen n900s in diff colors and crap - it is supposed to be all black right? | 07:37 |
| cehteh | yes | 07:37 |
| cehteh | really beware that you dont get a china plagiate | 07:37 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | I guess I should be able to tell by..... | 07:37 |
| cehteh | some look quite exactly the same | 07:37 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | like running firefox | 07:37 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | lol | 07:37 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | that shit would be hard to fake | 07:37 |
| cehteh | yeah the display res is way lower, usuall those have dual-sim and a very different os | 07:38 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | dual sim would be cool to have on it actually | 07:38 |
| cehteh | but that wont be a n900 | 07:38 |
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| cehteh | some devices had problem with reboots | 07:39 |
| cehteh | but thats rather hard to check | 07:39 |
| cehteh | and i think PR1.2 fixed that anyways | 07:40 |
| pupnik | n901 with 5" screen | 07:40 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | ah, so no model # to check for the reboot problem? | 07:40 |
| cehteh | no | 07:40 |
| cehteh | there are some hardware revisions but its not clear how they relate | 07:40 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | I'll probably have fun reinstalling the OS anyway being a linux slut | 07:40 |
| cehteh | yeah you prolly want to flash the device completely to wipe any stuff out the former owner put on it | 07:41 |
| cehteh | must not be locked too | 07:41 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | i dont think n900 can be locked | 07:41 |
| cehteh | has nokia a imei datatabase of stolen devices? | 07:41 |
| cehteh | it can | 07:42 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | nokia didn't allow any providers to brand it | 07:42 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | afaik | 07:42 |
| cehteh | locked i mean pin for the user | 07:42 |
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| cehteh | not simplock | 07:42 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | oh, like OS password | 07:42 |
| cehteh | yes kindof that | 07:42 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | well, if i can use it then it shouldnt have it i guess | 07:42 |
| cehteh | after a reboot :) | 07:43 |
| cehteh | do a full boot cycle to check, insert your sim too and check if it works | 07:43 |
| cehteh | otherwise i think there is not really much you can do as short test | 07:43 |
| pupnik | good advice | 07:43 |
| cehteh | there is the healthcheck app you may install and test serveral things | 07:44 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | I'm not going to have a sim before purchasing it | 07:44 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | is the healthcheck app from the apt installer? | 07:44 |
| cehteh | cant you borrow a sim from a friend or so for a test? .. from the same carrier you intend to use? | 07:44 |
| cehteh | yes | 07:44 |
| cehteh | you can check for dead pixels (by color screens), test sound, led, vibrator and such | 07:45 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | hmm, it is possible | 07:45 |
| cehteh | but its really not an exhaustive in depth test | 07:45 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | I'm thrilled at how much more helpful you all are than the android community | 07:45 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | heh | 07:45 |
| cehteh | i admit you can hardly do an in depth test when buying it | 07:45 |
| cehteh | well .. watch out for scratches on the screen, the resistive screen is a plastic foil, not glass | 07:46 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | ah | 07:46 |
| cehteh | and get a screen protector if you dont plan to be super-careful with it | 07:46 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | you all use those crazy shock protective cases with your n900s? | 07:46 |
| cehteh | i build my own :) | 07:47 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | interesting | 07:47 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | any pics? | 07:47 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | don't the screen protectors diminish touch screen effectiveness? | 07:47 |
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| cehteh | not noticeable | 07:50 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | did your n900 come with 32gig microsd? | 07:50 |
| arachnist | nope, it has ~30G of usable internal storage | 07:51 |
| arachnist | but usually doesn't come with a microsd | 07:52 |
| cehteh | http://git.pipapo.org/n900case/n900_shell.html | 07:52 |
| cehteh | the package originally contains: usb cable, av-cable, crappy earbuds, cleaning cloth, charger, usb-charge adapter for old nokia chargers | 07:53 |
| Stskeeps | joppu: all themes derived from the theme templates are CC BY SA, so yours has to be too | 07:54 |
| cehteh | no wrist strap, no microsd | 07:54 |
| cehteh | but a used device might be equipped slightly differently | 07:54 |
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| cehteh | well you should be sure the usb cabel and the charger are included at least | 07:54 |
| Stskeeps | joppu: same right that gave you ability to alter and make themes has to be passed on to others | 07:55 |
| cehteh | (anything should be available as 3rd party) | 07:55 |
| Stskeeps | joppu: go shout at rst38h for not fixing the package though | 07:55 |
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| cehteh | is there a pages somewhere where the available themes are previewable with screenshots? | 07:57 |
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| cehteh | since the themes are rather big i dont want to install tons of them just to choose | 07:57 |
| cehteh | (imo themes should have their own category on HAM anyways) | 07:58 |
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| Macer | hm | 08:05 |
| Macer | i installed the enhanced kernel | 08:05 |
| Macer | does it have the ability to use the conservative governor? | 08:06 |
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| Macer | right now it's set to ondemand | 08:06 |
| Macer | i thought ondemand steps up faster than conservative | 08:06 |
| Macer | cpu goes up to 1150? :) | 08:07 |
| Macer | heh | 08:07 |
| * Macer pictures melting his n900 at 1.1GHz | 08:07 | |
| Macer | i wouldn't mind bumping up the freq to like 850 | 08:08 |
| Macer | that sounds reasonable :) | 08:09 |
| Macer | with a conservative governor | 08:09 |
| Macer | so it doesn't go straight to 850 like ondemand does | 08:09 |
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| visz | you prefer melting it with 850 MHz?-) | 08:12 |
| Macer | you're right | 08:12 |
| Macer | i should go for broke :) | 08:12 |
| Macer | maybe i can stick a smal fan and vent system in it | 08:13 |
| visz | now there's an idea =) | 08:13 |
| Macer | heh | 08:13 |
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| Macer | or i can just stick it in a copper enclosure | 08:13 |
| Macer | make the entire phone copper minus teh screen | 08:13 |
| Macer | and keep it out of my pocket | 08:13 |
| Macer | and use the case as a heatsink while it runs at 1.1GHz | 08:14 |
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| Macer | actually.. for now i am just trying to figure out how to use kernel-config to change the governor | 08:14 |
| Macer | but i have to find out what governors are in the enhanced kernel | 08:14 |
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| Macer | ah. got it | 08:18 |
| Macer | i'm curious as to whether or not a conservative gov will work better on the battery life while providing the same performance | 08:18 |
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| Macer | it seems like my phone always runs at 600MHz :) | 08:20 |
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| cehteh | eek | 08:32 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 08:32 |
| cehteh | when playing music its at 35% 250mhz here .. i rather would like to enable the 125Mhz for that | 08:33 |
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| flux | cehteh, have you tried forcing the MHz to 125 in that case? | 09:07 |
| flux | (by setting max frequency to 125 during playing) | 09:07 |
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| cehteh | flux: i have the nokia kernel still | 09:08 |
| flux | oh | 09:08 |
| flux | well, installing a new kernel is just an apt-get away | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | TADAAA, found first hardware BUG in N900 :-D | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | oh? | 09:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can kill SoC GPIO55 | 09:09 |
| flux | hm :) | 09:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | by applying Vbat via LP5523 | 09:09 |
| flux | do to tell nokia, I'm sure they'll fix it for the next hw revision 8) | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | INT output of LP5523, when used as GPO (sw controlled), switches properties from pulldown to totem-pole | 09:10 |
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| cehteh | flux: i am burned .. some time ago my only/first try to do so got me the only broken kernel from t-tan :) | 09:11 |
| cehteh | had to reflash then.. | 09:11 |
| cehteh | well i eventually will try next time when i have some spare time and be bored enough | 09:11 |
| flux | cehteh, not a big deal, reflashing, though | 09:11 |
| cehteh | yes it is | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | which means it's feeding Vbat+ to SoC GPIO55, when '1' | 09:11 |
| cehteh | because i have to restore a shitload other customizations | 09:12 |
| flux | cehteh, no, if you flash just the kernel | 09:12 |
| cehteh | well next time | 09:12 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: that means you can fry the device in software? | 09:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 09:13 |
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| cehteh | nice one, package it | 09:13 |
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| cehteh | n900fry try at your own risk | 09:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically, though I don't expect tooooo worse thing happen when a totem-pole with Vhigh of Vbat is feeding a SoC GPIO | 09:14 |
| cehteh | remember the people who tried a unpatched 2.6.32 kernel which almost made their device melt? | 09:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 09:15 |
| cehteh | well thats another case, but still :) | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | fwiw, i did not have my device melt in .33 | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:15 |
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| cehteh | vanilla? | 09:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | you almost always can force two GPIO of two chips to output-fight each other | 09:15 |
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| cehteh | Stskeeps: iirc some nokia patches went into .33 so that might explain that | 09:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/to /two / | 09:16 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: you almost always can force two GPIO of two chips two output-fight each other | 09:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, scratch that s/ | 09:16 |
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| Stskeeps | morn wazd | 09:17 |
| cehteh | Stskeeps: but note that the cpu voltage is controlled by the kernel itself :) | 09:17 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: moo :) | 09:18 |
| wazd | hello people :) | 09:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, that GPIO_55 has a pullup to VIO_1.8, and Vbat may be 4.2 | 09:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so I'd say, it's STRONGLY DISCOURAGED to drive LP5523 INT output under software control | 09:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | reg 0x3B, bit2 MUST be 0 | 09:24 |
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| mece | baa | 10:05 |
| Lazy^ | Hello, how i can remove my operator-data-connection settings... it allows me delete wlan ect.. but not the operator settings.. | 10:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | no (simple) way | 10:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | set AP name to some faulty value | 10:08 |
| Duckboot | Lazy^: fAPN might help you - I'm not sure, but it's worth a try. | 10:08 |
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| Lazy^ | Duckboot: noup, i can delete mms settings =) | 10:11 |
| Lazy^ | from fAPN | 10:11 |
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| Duckboot | Lazy^: Ok - Then I don't know ;-P | 10:13 |
| Lazy^ | It's Operator GPRS settings, and i want to delete it so i can get new settings from operator | 10:13 |
| Duckboot | Lazy^: Edit you old settings - That's atleast what I did when I changed Operator. | 10:13 |
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| Lazy^ | Duckboot: yes i can edit it.. no prob.. but when i'm trying to determine that n900 is allowed to connect to it automatically, it's not on the list | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | afaik N900 can not 'receive new settings via SMS' | 10:14 |
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| Duckboot | DocScrutinizer51: It can - I tried it with setting my phone to Nokia E75, and getting my operator to send me an SMS with settings - It worked for me. | 10:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, mhm | 10:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc it didn't work for me with PR1.0 | 10:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe they fixed the SMS app | 10:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but then probably it also will overwrite old settings, so still no reason to delete the connection | 10:18 |
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| jacekowski | well, doesn't n900 support multiple connections? | 10:22 |
| jacekowski | and it selects them based on operator | 10:22 |
| jacekowski | ( that's how it worked for me ) | 10:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | jacekowski: that'd be nice | 10:26 |
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| jacekowski | well, i swapped sims o2/plusgsm/t-mobile and i had gprs straight away | 10:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, should better be bound to actual network the modem registerd to. You might be roaming | 10:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | anyway, I got the problem I want to use different APN settings with same carrier. Seems this isnMt supported - have to edit | 10:30 |
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| Surfa | what is the scenario for not using "internet" apn? | 10:32 |
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| psycho_oreos | any of you tried timing how long does it take to charge up the N900 battery assuming from empty level using USB2 dedicated port? | 10:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | O2 | 10:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | psycho_oreos: 3:30 with charger | 10:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe +1h for standard usb host PC | 10:34 |
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| psycho_oreos | DocScrutinizer51, thanks, might have to re-organise my schedule.. I bricked my phone for the first time on the way to work today and I'm assuming its flat due to excessive reboots during the day in a bid to hopefully see that it will still boot | 10:35 |
| noobmonk3y | DocScrutinizer, 3:30? 2:15 here?! | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | manual says 3:30 iirc | 10:36 |
| noobmonk3y | hmmm just checked battery eye, its between 2:15 and 2:45 on mine | 10:36 |
| noobmonk3y | thats from about 3% to 97% but then my device doesnt go above 97 lol | 10:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | noobmonk3y: yeah, and last 3% take another 1h | 10:37 |
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| noobmonk3y | hahaha :) | 10:38 |
| noobmonk3y | damn that last 3% :( | 10:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no haha | 10:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | logical consequence of CC/CV charging | 10:39 |
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| noobmonk3y | cc/cv? | 10:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | const current / const voltage | 10:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | you might even say it *never* reaches 100 | 10:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | so you simply have to stop charging at some point and say 'that's 100 for me now' | 10:44 |
| mece | hey is there a way to get the file picking dialogues and file manager to display the whole filenames? | 10:46 |
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| mece | s/dialogues/dialogs/ | 10:46 |
| infobot | mece meant: hey is there a way to get the file picking dialogs and file manager to display the whole filenames? | 10:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe indicator says 'charging complete' at 97, but Nokia's figure of 3:30 is for 99.9 | 10:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mece: no | 10:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | which is a PITA | 10:47 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer51, grr argh! no kidding! Gaddammit! | 10:48 |
| hrw | morning | 10:48 |
| mece | there must be a hack. | 10:48 |
| solrize | so the 900 has usb host after all? what if i want to run a power hungry device, is the simplest way to add a powered hub? | 10:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | it's a .so lib I guess. You might hack that | 10:48 |
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| frals | mece: check -dev mailing list | 10:49 |
| frals | topic was up yesterday | 10:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | solrize: not yet, we're still working on it. And yes | 10:49 |
| solrize | tx | 10:49 |
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| mece | frals, hmm. I'm on that, but didn't get any mails. I think. | 10:50 |
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| frals | oh nvm | 10:50 |
| frals | bug #430 | 10:50 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=430 Show and edit filename extensions | 10:50 |
| frals | my bad :) | 10:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mece: I got me a bindmount of / to MyDocs/myroot/ | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | another one for /home | 10:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | wfm | 10:52 |
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| dnaumov | what software options do I have if I want to turn my n900 into a wlan ap? | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bah, extensions - that's yet another issue where not even bindmount will help :-S | 10:54 |
| dnaumov | is there anything besides joikuspot? | 10:54 |
| Duckboot | dnaumov: There is some software called Hotspot (or something like that) | 10:54 |
| Duckboot | dnaumov: I didn't get it to work - but some have. | 10:55 |
| mece | hey, filemanager is open source! | 10:56 |
| dnaumov | also I am a bit confused regarding how WifiEye works, why does it seem to require to be connected to some WLAN connection before it can tell me about all the WLAN networks in the vicinity? | 10:56 |
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| mece | ok so would it be a difficult fix to fork and modify filepicker and filemanager to make things show up? | 10:59 |
| mece | err extensions show up is what I means | 10:59 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 takes microsoft and android and beats Nokia with it down the street of Unix | 11:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | aah. forgot: in PR1.3 we'll get drive letters, starting at 'C:' | 11:02 |
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| plastun | hello! How to get selected item when I clicked on TouchSelector? | 11:05 |
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| D-Iivil | Morning. | 11:07 |
| crashanddie | moanin | 11:09 |
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| mece | ok.. the removing of extensions is done in hildon-file-system-model.c | 11:19 |
| mece | in the function hildon_file_system_model_new_item | 11:20 |
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| spyro | hey guys | 11:22 |
| spyro | I've been doing a lot of work to bring hardware accelerated 3D to qemu | 11:22 |
| spyro | I almost have things working, and I can boot maemo / meego on it | 11:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | mece: patch it and share the fixed version :-D | 11:23 |
| spyro | but I appear to have run into a bug that googling shows has struck the maemo community before | 11:23 |
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| spyro | ClutterX11-WARNING **: Failed to get XImage of pixmap: 200704, removing | 11:23 |
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| chem|st | moaning 2 | 11:24 |
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| spyro | has anyone fixed this? | 11:24 |
| mece | hmm | 11:24 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer51, I was thinking I'd just compile and put it on my N900 :P | 11:24 |
| spyro | 'cos if so, I suspect this is the last remaining bug before maemo / moblin / meego can make use of qemu + hard3D | 11:24 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, could we fork this and put it in extras? | 11:25 |
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| mece | as a replacement.. | 11:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mece: why not? | 11:25 |
| mece | yeah.. why not.. I have no idea how to actually do it, but it would be logical for community to make own versions of the open stuff that we don't like. | 11:26 |
| spyro | anyone at all? | 11:26 |
| spyro | damn, I wish lcuk was about :/ | 11:27 |
| mece | sorry spyro, wasn't paying attention.. what's that? | 11:27 |
| spyro | \o/ | 11:27 |
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| spyro | I've been working on qemu hardware 3D accel | 11:27 |
| spyro | mostly so meego can boot on qemu | 11:27 |
| spyro | but it also affects moblin and maemo | 11:28 |
| spyro | I'm seeing this error from clutter now that I've fixed a number of its other 'issues' | 11:28 |
| mece | spyro, cool. | 11:28 |
| spyro | Failed to get XImage of pixmap <foo>, removing | 11:28 |
| mece | spyro, hmm I get lots of those in scratchbox | 11:28 |
| spyro | yeah for me it all works great now, but as soon as those messages appear, it loses its ability to read the window contents and it just displays garbage | 11:29 |
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| chem|st | any nokians here? got bug10559 reproduced somehow and you might be interested | 11:30 |
| spyro | It looks like no-one cares about the software TFP fallback path, which is very sad :-( | 11:30 |
| crashanddie | bug 10559 | 11:30 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10559 CPU +0.2 load constantly | 11:30 |
| mece | ok, so what happens if I upload my magical version of libhildonfm to extras-devel? would it come up as an update? | 11:31 |
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| chem|st | darn still wrong there its CPU +1.1 load constantly now | 11:31 |
| mece | bug #10559 | 11:32 |
| spyro | chem|st: whats showing in top thats using CPU ? | 11:32 |
| mece | oops | 11:32 |
| mece | already there. | 11:32 |
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| mece | povbot is slow today.. | 11:32 |
| povbot | mece: Error: "is" is not a valid command. | 11:32 |
| chem|st | mece: regarding normal ways yes | 11:32 |
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| chem|st | spyro: nothing relay all things but top are in S state... | 11:32 |
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| spyro | what about tasks waiting for IO | 11:33 |
| spyro | load being up isnt only about cpu usage | 11:33 |
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| chem|st | that the system load doesnt drop in seconds from 1.2 back to 0.2 is normal but this is now the second time and its not droping for hours | 11:33 |
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| chem|st | spyro: CPU: 0.7% usr 1.5% sys 0.0% nice 97.6% idle 0.0% io 0.0% irq 0.0% softirq | 11:34 |
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| spyro | that does seema bit odd. | 11:35 |
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| chem|st | sys is variing between 2.5 and 3.5% now | 11:36 |
| spyro | chem|st: constantly ? | 11:37 |
| chem|st | sure | 11:38 |
| chem|st | look at the picture attached to the bug | 11:38 |
| spyro | chem|st: load is the number of processes waiting for io in a given period, so it can be quite high even with low CPU usage | 11:38 |
| chem|st | thought load is something like all together | 11:39 |
| chem|st | how do I find out what is waiting? | 11:39 |
| spyro | well, thats the classical definition. I dunno if linux does something odd... | 11:39 |
| chem|st | spyro: I guess not ;) | 11:39 |
| spyro | help me out... that graph has no scale and only a couple of legends | 11:40 |
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| mece | so.. any council members around? | 11:40 |
| chem|st | for load the first horizontal line is 1 the second 2, load is the purple | 11:40 |
| chem|st | dotted lines ar .5 | 11:41 |
| spyro | ok so load is the purple. | 11:42 |
| chem|st | so at this graph somwhere at 1.2-1.3 | 11:43 |
| spyro | looks like when the load was 1.x the CPU was very busy (voltage sucked quite low) | 11:44 |
| chem|st | on the current graph something is producing +2 with peaks to 3.5 in the first 2 hours and the voltage gets sucked down decreasing a lot faster than just before | 11:45 |
| chem|st | i get the other pic ready | 11:45 |
| spyro | you could try getting a commandline and killing processes until the load drops off :) | 11:46 |
| spyro | see if its anything identifiable | 11:46 |
| chem|st | last time I started stopped fmtx via desktop widget | 11:47 |
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| chem|st | I dont want to stop it until I realy know what is causing it | 11:47 |
| jacekowski | probably xorg | 11:47 |
| spyro | chem|st: I cant think of a good way of locating the task if its not showing any noticeable CPU or IOWAIT usage | 11:47 |
| jacekowski | thing is that it will be higher when you look at it | 11:48 |
| jacekowski | loadavg on dyntick systems is messed up | 11:48 |
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| spyro | jacekowski: very true - esp. if the desktop is composited (it is on maemo isnt it?) as X will spend a lot of time IOWAITing on the GPU | 11:48 |
| jacekowski | it isn't | 11:48 |
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| spyro | jacekowski: well the bug seems more likely :) | 11:49 |
| spyro | jacekowski: wasnt the loadavg bug fixed like a year ago ? | 11:49 |
| jacekowski | just take a look at phone taken from iddle | 11:49 |
| jacekowski | idle* | 11:49 |
| jacekowski | 1 minute average can reach over 1 | 11:49 |
| jacekowski | but 5 and 15 minute average is under 0.1 | 11:49 |
| spyro | FAIL | 11:49 |
| chem|st | spyro: new picture uploaded | 11:50 |
| spyro | chem|st: jacekowski's explanation seems quite plausible... | 11:50 |
| jacekowski | thing is that frequency should be adjusted to keep loadavg as high as possible | 11:50 |
| jacekowski | without causing any interactivity loss | 11:50 |
| jacekowski | but then you have run-to-idle strategy | 11:51 |
| jacekowski | which is run at full speed and go to 0Hz idle as fast as possible | 11:51 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: Load average: 2.88 2.73 1.86 | 11:52 |
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| jacekowski | quite normal | 11:52 |
| chem|st | was 1.2 1.2 1.2 before | 11:52 |
| jacekowski | 10:52:26 up 7 days, 20:19, 3 users, load average: 0.11, 0.10, 0.08 | 11:52 |
| jacekowski | but that's server | 11:52 |
| jacekowski | with 4x2.8GHz cpu | 11:52 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: thats not normal! | 11:52 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: it is | 11:52 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: you don't understand how loadavg works | 11:53 |
| jacekowski | it's amount of processes waiting for cpu | 11:53 |
| wazd_n900 | guys, anyone faced 2 minute stop in media player with 1.2 fw? | 11:53 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: that it is stuck for hours at 1.2 even after a reboot? | 11:53 |
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| mmarc__ | hi | 11:53 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: take a look at ps output | 11:54 |
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| chem|st | looking for what? | 11:54 |
| jacekowski | nothing | 11:54 |
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| jacekowski | you would have to get proper ps | 11:55 |
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| jacekowski | not busybox one | 11:55 |
| mmarc__ | I'm trying to install the maemo-sdk freemanntle rootstrap, but it gives unknown url http://repository.maemo.org/unstable/5.0beta/i386/maemo-sdk-rootstrap_5.0beta_i386.tgz that seems to be outdated. How can I update its internal information? | 11:55 |
| jacekowski | and you would get cpu consumption of each process | 11:55 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: the loadavg hits 1.2 constantly and the battery gets drained faster and you call it normal you are kidding? | 11:55 |
| jacekowski | define faster | 11:56 |
| chem|st | you mean cpu time | 11:56 |
| jacekowski | ( n900 only lasts couple hours ) | 11:56 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: have a look at the pic and stop telling random BS! | 11:56 |
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| chem|st | n900 doesnt last only hours | 11:57 |
| jacekowski | which pic? | 11:57 |
| mece | ok... let's see if I can build libhildonfm | 11:57 |
| chem|st | https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=2849 | 11:57 |
| jacekowski | well, everybody will tell you that n900 doesn't last more than a day | 11:57 |
| haltdef_ | wish that mugen battery wasn't fucked | 11:58 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: you see, that's a problem | 11:58 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: batterygraph uses resources as well | 11:58 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: well mine does as you see at the pic | 11:58 |
| crashanddie | damn, even the chinese are showing us how to "fight the power" | 11:58 |
| crashanddie | "A Chinese farmer has declared war on property developers who want his land, building a cannon out of a wheelbarrow and pipes and firing rockets at would-be eviction teams" | 11:58 |
| jacekowski | hmm, | 11:58 |
| haj | It's all about a distributing charger-cables everywhere you normally go... :) | 11:58 |
| jacekowski | that's a problem | 11:58 |
| mece | bleh.. my scratchbox hildon is too old apparently | 11:58 |
| jacekowski | chem|st: have you tried looking at top/cpu time/something? | 11:59 |
| chem|st | jacekowski: can you please stop telling me off on that! I know batterygraph threats every 5 seconds | 11:59 |
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| crashanddie | http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=USRTR2E5DE#a=8 | 12:00 |
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| crashanddie | threats? | 12:00 |
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| chem|st | uptime 4 days 19:17 -> xorg 19h; hildon-desktop 7h; bme_RX.. 6h; pulse 4h; | 12:01 |
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| spyro | Whoops | 12:01 |
| spyro | *nukes the kernel* | 12:01 |
| spyro | jacekowski: good point with wanting to scale the CPU clock for intweractive perf. too | 12:02 |
| spyro | although it seems unlikely that anything on the systems would want to behave quite like hes seeing | 12:03 |
| chem|st | batterygraph 8' | 12:03 |
| spyro | chem|st: unless its heinously badly written it shouldnt be causing much CPU load. how often does it poll the status ? | 12:05 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 mv batterygraph batterydrain | 12:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | old story | 12:06 |
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| mece | halp! | 12:09 |
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| mece | I get a "Makefile: 526 - Missing separator. Stop." | 12:09 |
| mece | So what does that mean? | 12:09 |
| mece | the Makefile line looks like this: | 12:10 |
| chem|st | spyro: 8 minutes cpu time in close to 4 days 19h isnt much... | 12:10 |
| mece | @ENABLE_GTK_DOC_FALSE@@echo "*** gtk-doc must be installed and enabled in order to make dist" | 12:10 |
| mmarc__ | Bootstrapper installer asks: GUI start up command for 'freemantle5.0-10_i386'? - What to answer? | 12:10 |
| mmarc__ | *rootstrap | 12:10 |
| spyro | chem|st: probably not that then :) | 12:10 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: I am monitoring my batterydrain for month now and batterygraph did no significant change to that yet | 12:11 |
| mece | hmm it's a tab problem apparently. | 12:12 |
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| RST38h | BatteryGraph did not affect me as well | 12:14 |
| mmarc__ | hey, guys, how do you install freemantle rootstrap?? | 12:14 |
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| Tachikoma | hi - does anyone here use the MobileHotspot tool on his n900? I juust wonder if i need to set the ip adress on the laptop connecting to the device manually or if there is supposed to be some dhcp service? I found tons of documentation on what to do on the n900 side but nothing on the setup of the connecte machine. I can connect to the mobilehospot ad-hoc network (at least according to iwconfig on the laptop) but do not get any ip adress ... | 12:15 |
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| flux | tachikoma, the project page suggests reading the configuration keys from the source :) | 12:25 |
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| flux | in any case, atleast n900 has dnsmasq available, so it should be able to use that for serving DHCP | 12:26 |
| mmarc__ | guys, I really wonder if there exists a newer version of sdk installation guide, than http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install-ubuntu.html | 12:26 |
| BCMM | Tachikoma: i have used mobilehotspot, it basically just works | 12:26 |
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| Tachikoma | BCMM: so no need to manually configure the IP on the connected laptop? | 12:26 |
| chem|st | spyro: the imapd on the server I am here got 98h in 5.5days... | 12:26 |
| BCMM | Tachikoma: i don't think so | 12:26 |
| BCMM | i didn't look at how it works | 12:27 |
| BCMM | but my machine seemed to get assigned an address | 12:27 |
| Tachikoma | I have the suspicion that the problem is with this networkmanager thing on the laptop, not with mobilehotspot | 12:27 |
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| spyro | chem|st: yeah doesnt look like the battery load app. sorry, I'm out of ideas. | 12:27 |
| spyro | chem|st: try killing stuff :) | 12:27 |
| dneary | hi | 12:27 |
| Tachikoma | BCMM: thanks a lot, then i will first look into network manager and try using thintgs with ifconfig directly | 12:27 |
| dneary | X-Fade, ping? | 12:27 |
| chem|st | I wait for an answer at the bug report | 12:27 |
| spyro | good luck :) | 12:28 |
| mmarc__ | thanks a lot for your help! | 12:29 |
| chem|st | spyro: my xserver at home has 8h with 22days uptime but I guess thats nothing to compare with | 12:29 |
| chem|st | spyro: whats your cputime on xorg? | 12:30 |
| * lcuk spies a spyro | 12:30 | |
| lcuk | ello dude | 12:30 |
| spyro | chem|st: thats not really useful to know (and I just rebooted) | 12:30 |
| spyro | chem|st: depending on what you're doing X can use anything from no CPU to 100%. | 12:31 |
| chem|st | anyone with uptime +2days? | 12:31 |
| spyro | chem|st: my fileserver has uptime +400 days, but no X :) | 12:31 |
| spyro | UPS FTW! :) | 12:31 |
| Tachikoma | ok - it does just work with a macbook as client. So I guess my problem is with network manager and nothing on the n900 :) | 12:31 |
| Tachikoma | the usual experience ... | 12:32 |
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| chem|st | spyro: at home I whatch tv movies play 3d games (wine helps...) | 12:32 |
| chem|st | spyro: ;) yes! | 12:32 |
| spyro | :D | 12:33 |
| chem|st | spyro: I had to boot after a couple of hours fallout | 12:33 |
| spyro | :) | 12:34 |
| Shapeshifter | Is there nm, strings or objdump somewhere in the repos? | 12:34 |
| Shapeshifter | Can't find any of them. | 12:34 |
| chem|st | but as my firewall is "kill'em all and let god sort them out" the wake on lan stopped working for some reason | 12:34 |
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| mmarc__ | kalikiana: Linux msiwind 2.6.32-22-generic | 12:41 |
| mmarc__ | kalikiana: 32-bit | 12:41 |
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| kalikiana | mmarc__, try "echo 0 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled" | 12:41 |
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| mmarc__ | kalikiana: works now, thanks a lot! | 12:43 |
| kalikiana | you're welcome | 12:43 |
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| Stskeeps | joppu: it's difficult to say it's not a deriative though as it was used as basis for your work, including the packaging and such | 13:07 |
| psycho_oreos | on PR1.2 firmware, is it possible under applications manager to select more than one items to install? | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | joppu: as i said before, same rights that you have to make your own theme based on the theming information is passed on and should be passed on | 13:09 |
| Stskeeps | http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/ is pretty clear :P | 13:09 |
| Stskeeps | either way, this isn't my battle - just stating the situation | 13:10 |
| joppu | you can't compare code and art licenses | 13:10 |
| joppu | the hildin-theme-tool stuff should be licensed under GPL or something | 13:11 |
| joppu | I was under impression that just the graphic stuff was under CC | 13:11 |
| Stskeeps | can you -honestly- say that your png's and svgs are not in one way or the other built on the template svgs and pngs? | 13:11 |
| Stskeeps | even if 'code'/scripts was GPL licensed, it'd be same situation | 13:12 |
| joppu | I can say that | 13:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Much stuff is pretty generically computer | 13:13 |
| Tachikoma | graphics based on templates? I have a hard time understanding what that means. I assumed that graphics are drawn or sketched | 13:13 |
| Stskeeps | how? placements of theme elements and everything are pretty static | 13:13 |
| Tachikoma | but maybe i missunderstand something ... | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Nobody uses a picture of a file (tool) to denote a file in the UI | 13:13 |
| joppu | well the placements are an another thing | 13:14 |
| joppu | the whole problem isn't that I don't want people to modify my themes, the problem is that I feel offended by the fact that somebody is "fixing" my artistic choices | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | right, the social part of it | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | it is their right though, just as it was given to you to modify and build a theme cos of wanting a different theme than nokia ones :/ | 13:17 |
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| joppu | but I'm not "fixing" the nokia ones, I'm building ones of my own | 13:18 |
| Tachikoma | joppu: which theme is from you? | 13:19 |
| Stskeeps | there's not really a difference, a modification is a modification | 13:19 |
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| Tachikoma | I just ask as i tried some and was not yet able to find a single one i liked | 13:19 |
| Stskeeps | either way, http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-theme-layout-5/blobs/master/COPYING , ie, all the .rc stuff, http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/hildon-theme-variant-template/blobs/master/COPYING , template + coordinates png - so, licensing is pretty clear. i believe the kontorri theme maker ones has a similar license | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | so, it is cc by sa 2.5 or 3.0 depending where you look. | 13:20 |
| Tachikoma | and is there a page where one could see screenshot of available themes? I took screenshot of the ones i tried already to but them on a blog but was wondering if that already exists? | 13:21 |
| joppu | Tachikoma: tt's carbon. some others I can recommend is the array by me and then there's marina by wazd and of course D-livil's stuff (there's tons of those) | 13:21 |
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| joppu | http://wiki.maemo.org/List_of_Themes_for_Maemo5 | 13:22 |
| Tachikoma | joppu: mh, i guess i already tried some of them. I'd like to have some brighter theme, but most are dark and the brighter ones i found were not that nice | 13:22 |
| joppu | that's kinda incomplete though | 13:22 |
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| Tachikoma | wow, thanks a lot for the link | 13:22 |
| Tachikoma | was unable to find that by myself | 13:22 |
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| joppu | the problem is that Nokia has decided the create the template in a way that makes black-on-white themes kinda impossible | 13:23 |
| Tachikoma | i see | 13:23 |
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| * Stskeeps had a similar situation of his irc daemon software being used by a bunch of white pride people, which i didn't like at all, but the same thing that protects me against someone filing a lawsuit against me for randomly revoking the license to my code is the same freedom they have. | 13:24 | |
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| crashanddie | Stskeeps: change the default of future versions to a big black body builder | 13:25 |
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| crashanddie | default theme. | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: meh, long ago | 13:26 |
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| BCMM | Stskeeps: so add a backdoor and take over their server :) | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | BCMM: naah. no need to do illegal things cos you disagree with people | 13:30 |
| joppu | Stskeeps: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#I_don.E2.80.99t_like_the_way_a_person_has_used_my_work_in_a_derivative_work_or_included_it_in_a_collective_work.3B_what_can_I_do.3F | 13:30 |
| joppu | woah nice URL | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | joppu: well, you can do that, but you can't stop the use | 13:31 |
| BCMM | Stskeeps: not entirely serious, of course | 13:31 |
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| BCMM | looking at that themes page, what is the relationship between matrix and melody? | 13:36 |
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| joppu | matrix is melody with changed backgrounds | 13:40 |
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| BCMM | wow, the tmo thread should really mention that | 13:41 |
| BCMM | hmm, it suggests that the matrix theme adds green progress bars too | 13:41 |
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| BCMM | bother, i had already decided i wanted to use something pretty much like Matrix without the silly backgrounds | 13:41 |
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| joppu | I think I have already expressed my concern about changing a few backgrounds adding a fancy name and calling it a theme | 13:42 |
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| BCMM | is there a page somewhere listing boot videos people have made? | 13:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | youtube.com ? | 13:47 |
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| * RST38h moos at the moon | 13:50 | |
| RST38h | EHLO joppu, sorry for pissing you off so unexpectedly =) | 13:50 |
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| misc-- | hello - I was wondering if it's possible to read sms message directly via a terminal, or ssh? | 13:53 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 13:55 |
| * SpeedEvil suffers a parity error. | 13:55 | |
| mece | misc-, yes. | 13:55 |
| * SpeedEvil tries to recover. | 13:56 | |
| * crashanddie pairs SpeedEvil with his bluetooth headset | 13:56 | |
| misc-- | ah, how do you do that? | 13:56 |
| crashanddie | misc--: you can query a sqlite database that contains all the events | 13:56 |
| misc-- | ahhh | 13:57 |
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| misc-- | do you know where the sqlite db stored? | 13:58 |
| crashanddie | misc--: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=51090 | 13:58 |
| crashanddie | misc--: I wrote a small python app that interacts with the SMS's DB | 13:58 |
| crashanddie | shoudl give you an idea | 13:58 |
| misc-- | ah good stuff, thanks a lot | 13:58 |
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| joppu | speaking of themes | 14:05 |
| joppu | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55604 | 14:05 |
| joppu | there's a great example of a "theme" | 14:05 |
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| BCMM | do i need to turn off the n900 to insert a micro-sd? | 14:16 |
| Stskeeps | no, but back panel needs to be on | 14:17 |
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| BCMM | Stskeeps: ah, that would explain why it was taking so much force to insert | 14:18 |
| BCMM | i must've been trying to push it through a couple of mm of hard plastic | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | I did that first too. | 14:19 |
| MiXu-_ | There's a magnet in the cover that tells the phone whether the cover is on or not. | 14:19 |
| SpeedEvil | I had to use a hammer. | 14:19 |
| MiXu-_ | If the cover is not there, the microsd will be unmounted | 14:19 |
| BCMM | MiXu-_: the n900 knows if the cover is on? | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 14:19 |
| MiXu-_ | yes | 14:19 |
| BCMM | there needs to be a list somewhere of environmental sensors the n900 does not have | 14:20 |
| BCMM | (starting with rotation) | 14:20 |
| BCMM | what happens if you take the case off and it cannot unmount the sd? | 14:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: | 14:21 |
| BCMM | bah, how does this work? does it slot into the cover like the sim, or do you put it on the contacts then close it? | 14:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | slots in | 14:21 |
| Khertan1 | Hi ! | 14:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | you push the microSD cover opposite to the direction of the arrow | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | it then unlocks | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | flip it up | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | put microsd in | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | into the steel bit | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | it then flips back down, and you slide it into lock | 14:22 |
| BCMM | ah, looks like the problem is that this is not actually a microsd card | 14:23 |
| MiXu-_ | lol | 14:23 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: so it works just like the sim cover then/ | 14:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 14:23 |
| BCMM | offtopic, but what is about the size of a microsd but rectangular (with a few notches) | 14:24 |
| BCMM | (it came out of a Sony phone) | 14:24 |
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| jaska | sony reeks of those proprietary memory sticks? maybe "memory stick micro"? | 14:25 |
| BCMM | memory stick micro; when will sandisk tire of inventing types of memory card? | 14:25 |
| jaska | its sonys own format | 14:25 |
| BCMM | ah | 14:26 |
| BCMM | looks like sandisk makes them though | 14:26 |
| BCMM | kinda assumed SD from the sandisk name | 14:26 |
| BCMM | oh well, bluetooth time | 14:26 |
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| Talus_Laptop | :) | 14:30 |
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| BCMM | does the n900 do OBEX File Transfer Profile? | 14:33 |
| BCMM | (i mean, as teh PC) | 14:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | Is that the 'browse other phones fss' thing? | 14:35 |
| BCMM | i'm trying to get everything off my girlfriend's phone, (which she plans to replace) - this is basically contacts and photos | 14:35 |
| SpeedEvil | no - as I understand it. | 14:35 |
| BCMM | there has to be a better way that accepting the files, one at a time | 14:35 |
| BCMM | SpeedEvil: what is fss? | 14:35 |
| BCMM | oh, filesystems | 14:35 |
| BCMM | yeah | 14:35 |
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| BCMM | i have no bluetooth on my pc | 14:36 |
| BCMM | but when i had a bluetooth laptop, i was able to see directories on hte old phone using obex | 14:36 |
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| BCMM | the n900 won't do that? | 14:36 |
| bnmbmb | Hai. | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | As I understand it no, not with the default software. | 14:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | It is certainly possible with the hardware | 14:37 |
| BCMM | and there isn't a package to do that yet | 14:37 |
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| BCMM | ATM she it just sitting there pressing accept... accept... accept... | 14:37 |
| Foreign | I`m Turkey. | 14:37 |
| BCMM | (her phone, for some reason, has a "send all my photos one at a time over bluetooth" feature) | 14:37 |
| BCMM | she seems surprisingly happy about that actually | 14:38 |
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| BCMM | Foreign: the entire country? | 14:40 |
| MiXu-_ | Big man | 14:40 |
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| mece | heee | 14:41 |
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| BCMM | was that a fortune, or directed at me? | 14:41 |
| mece | joppu, what's this about themes now? | 14:41 |
| MiXu-_ | I was wondering about the same thing | 14:41 |
| MiXu-_ | Or maybe he meant to say he's a turkey | 14:42 |
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| mece | joppu, those other "themes" are only there to make your theme look more awesome | 14:42 |
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| BCMM | MiXu-_: probably meant "Turkish" | 14:44 |
| MiXu-_ | Sure :) | 14:44 |
| mece | gaddammiiit! | 14:44 |
| mece | oh right. nvr mind. | 14:47 |
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| Hazz | Hey guys | 14:49 |
| Hazz | I just have a little question please | 14:49 |
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| Hazz | in the updates section, if i update the phone to the latest Maemo OS, does that remove any data from the phone? like sms, contacts and photos | 14:49 |
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| MiXu-_ | no | 14:50 |
| Hazz | i have nokia n900 sorry didnt mention that | 14:50 |
| MiXu-_ | But it's good to have a backup just in case | 14:50 |
| crashanddie | Hazz: there's only one phone that runs Maemo | 14:50 |
| MiXu-_ | Put it on a memorycard or a pc | 14:50 |
| Hazz | how to backup ? | 14:50 |
| crashanddie | Hazz: backup application | 14:50 |
| MiXu-_ | There's backup built in | 14:51 |
| Hazz | aha | 14:51 |
| Hazz | where can i reach that ? | 14:51 |
| vldcnst | Application list | 14:52 |
| MiXu-_ | If you have something older than PR1.2 it's under "More..." | 14:53 |
| alterego | ~seen MohammadAG | 14:53 |
| chem|st | "safe" icon called "Backup" | 14:53 |
| infobot | mohammadag <~MohammadA@62.219.120.20> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 20h 41m 13s ago, saying: 'SpeedEvil, not sure, it just popped up while using ssh'. | 14:54 |
| alterego | Damnit, I fail at bot commanding. | 14:54 |
| alterego | Oh, no I didn't :D | 14:54 |
| *** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s | 14:54 | |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: http://safariextensions.tumblr.com/ | 14:54 |
| alterego | Damnit .. | 14:54 |
| alterego | What's my t.m.o user page? | 14:55 |
| Hazz | thanks a lot guys | 14:55 |
| alterego | Hopw do I get it? | 14:55 |
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| alterego | Because it doesn't look like it's registered my forum posts .. | 14:56 |
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| alterego | Hrm, maybe it's just taking time to register or something, because I got the url right ... :/ | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: about:blank | 15:00 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: :P | 15:00 |
| alterego | I like my list of Handhelds, makes me look like a right Fanboi: "Nokia N900, Nokia N810, Nokia N800, Nokia 770, Nokia N96, Nokia N95 8G" | 15:00 |
| mece | ~seen GeneralAntilles | 15:00 |
| infobot | generalantilles is currently on #maemo (1d 10h 6m 35s) #meego (1d 10h 6m 35s). Has said a total of 91 messages. Is idling for 19h 38m, last said: 'alterego, you, too, can not be socialist.'. | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | braggard | 15:00 |
| alterego | Heh | 15:00 |
| alterego | Would be about me wouldn't it :D | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | ~seen SpeedEvil | 15:01 |
| infobot | speedevil is currently on #maemo (59m 28s) #openmoko (59m 28s) #edev (59m 28s). Has said a total of 18 messages. Is idling for 1s, last said: '~seen SpeedEvil'. | 15:01 |
| vldcnst | 18 messages? that can't be right | 15:01 |
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| mece | alterego, I've got N-Gage and N900. What does that make me? | 15:01 |
| alterego | mece: erm .. I don't want to say :P | 15:01 |
| mece | lol | 15:01 |
| inz | mece, the original sidetalk N-Gage? | 15:01 |
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| mece | N-Gage + frodo = awesome. | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | vldcnst: why not count them, so you know for sure. I mean it's just 1h | 15:01 |
| mece | inz, of course. not the shitty excuse that came later. | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | vldcnst: probably since I relogged this morning | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | morning? (59m 28s) | 15:02 |
| vldcnst | oh, its only this session | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | vldcnst: since birth then? | 15:03 |
| vldcnst | that "total" is misleading | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | very | 15:03 |
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| alterego | Has anyone else linked their talk with their maemo.org profile? | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | why? isn't it the total of all chan you're in with infobot? | 15:04 |
| mece | OMGWTFLOL SUCCESS! | 15:04 |
| alterego | (yes, I'm trying to be a karma whore) | 15:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: lo | 15:04 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: how long did it take to register? I thought it was refreshed every night or summink .. | 15:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | worked after a week | 15:04 |
| * mece has enabled viewing of file extensions. | 15:04 | |
| alterego | Oh, right :) | 15:04 |
| alterego | Hahah | 15:05 |
| alterego | Fair enough :D | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw karma seems is recalculated every 4..7 days, maybe once a week actually | 15:05 |
| alterego | Oh, ghey :D | 15:06 |
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| alterego | Not sure if it's still going to be used though, by Nokia. | 15:06 |
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| alterego | I'd imagine with MeeGo, they're going to need to account for Moblin devs too, or some such. | 15:06 |
| mece | ok, so.. on this new and improved file manager file picker and all that. what should we do with audio files for example? | 15:06 |
| alterego | And I completely missed the N900 DDP, I didn't even know it was happening. | 15:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | for last council elections it has been used | 15:06 |
| mece | originally track title is shown with artist below. With my new and pimped version you only see filename. | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | mece: :-))) | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | http://pastebin.ca/1879691 | 15:07 |
| mece | was thinking something like filename first and then artist - title. What do you think? | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | - how many lines people have in my logs | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Since ~oct | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | mece: that's just fine for me | 15:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (not showing anything I mean) | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a file manager | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | In maemo that is. | 15:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for such "useless" info I gather there's a "file details" menu entry | 15:09 |
| mece | Docscrutinizer, ok. Well that means it's done. Should I create my own version number for this? | 15:09 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: also: http://safariadblock.com/ (finally an adblock that allows safari to run in 64bit) | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | mece: could it learn to show full pathname as well? | 15:10 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, OmniWeb! | 15:10 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, you mean to start from / instead of MyDocs? | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 15:10 |
| mece | or just the whole thing.. | 15:10 |
| mece | I dunno. Haven't looked at that yet. | 15:10 |
| mece | I'll just make this one first. | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | cuteexplorer is ok | 15:10 |
| Lynoure | It kind of annoys me that user's home is a different place than MyDocs | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | There are good reasons for that. | 15:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | Basically, mydocs has to be vfat, and to go away when it's plugged in as mass storage | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | it annoys me Nokia is optimizing a linux OS for M$-users | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | So it can't be _too_ crucial | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not MS | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | it's essentially optimising for everything other than linux desktops/laptops | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | which is probably fair. | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Many printers can take a mass storage device and read pictures off it. | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | But only if it's in vfat | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's idiocy | 15:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even osX has a ^G in their filemanager - whatever it's called. "go to:" /etc, ->voila | 15:13 |
| Lynoure | SpeedEvil: The part that annoys me is that as the result many app developers (me to until recently) think that ~ is a good place for files... but it's not. | 15:14 |
| Lynoure | s/to/too/ | 15:14 |
| infobot | Lynoure meant: SpeedEvil: The part that annoys me is that as the result many app developers (me too until recently) think that ~ is a good place for files... but it's not. | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: and we're not talking bout VFAT here | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's about HFM and every bit that uses fileselector | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | ~ is a good place for small files | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | I was commenting on Lynoures comment | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | and explaining the reasons for that. | 15:15 |
| Lynoure | SpeedEvil: not really, makes it hard to backup them elsewhere | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Doesn't rsync work just as well on home? | 15:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah sorry, s/we/me/ | 15:15 |
| * SpeedEvil fails to see the problem. | 15:15 | |
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| Lynoure | SpeedEvil: sure, over the network it's not a problem, just over the usb | 15:16 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: safari scores 100 in the acid 3 test ;) | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | A 'right' way would be to use the nice shiny tracker database to populate a virtual vfat filesystem. | 15:16 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: omniweb a poor 20 | 15:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | As the USB is plugged in | 15:17 |
| Lynoure | SpeedEvil: that would indeed be nice. | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | Lynoure: as SpeedEvil elaborated, having your $HOME on vfat would break your functionality as long as phone is plugged to a host using mass storage | 15:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | Doing that right is hard though. | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | And involves some not quite trivial new code. | 15:18 |
| Lynoure | DocScrutinizer: I did understand his explanation. | 15:18 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.nokia.co.uk/find-products/all-phones/nokia-n900#/gallery/colors/landing :) | 15:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Website fail. | 15:20 |
| sx0n | SpeedEvil, populate fs from tracker? | 15:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | sx0n: yes. | 15:21 |
| Lynoure | DocScrutinizer: just a bit frustrated with some data being in ~ and some in MyDocs. I have not yet looked at what the default backup app backs up to the vfat, if it also sweeps ~ (excluding MyDocs) there, that's less of an annoyance, but I suspect it does not. | 15:21 |
| SpeedEvil | sx0n: On plugin to USB as mass storage, you read the tracker database for files, and the make a virtual filesystem which you export to the PC/printer/... | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | sx0n: This decouples the underlying filesystem from the exported one. | 15:22 |
| sx0n | shallow copy? | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | (to do this right, you would need all sorts of twiddles. For example, you would need tracker to be always up to date, so it might need kernel hooks. You'd also need to make read-only any files. And deal with files that are open being modified by the vfat side.) | 15:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - if on vfat side, user takes a file, and moves it around in the directories, what happens gets messy. | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | why tracker? if you're able to create a virtual block oriented fs from logical files, then why not simply take the *real* files, maybe even starting at / | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Because then you would need to run find /mydocs at insert-time | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | with potentially tens or hundreds of thousands of files. | 15:25 |
| E0x | morning vietnan !! | 15:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems no diff to using tracker for it | 15:26 |
| mece | ok so... | 15:26 |
| mece | let's see now. | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: find / may take about 10 mins before completing | 15:26 |
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| sx0n | SpeedEvil, sounds almost misuse of things :) i would suppose that there is easier ways to do that somehow | 15:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: that's nothing, compared to the cpu workload to create virtual blocks and a virtual FAT from that list of files | 15:27 |
| mece | how is that apt-get trick where you specify which version you want? | 15:27 |
| sx0n | SpeedEvil, afaik tracker is about up-to-date, at least it gets notifications of files inserted | 15:28 |
| mece | something like apt-get install thingamagic=1.3.4 | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: it's really not - that's damn trivial. You run through the file list allocating x blocks in the FAT for each file, as you don't care about fragmentation. | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | if only it were so simple ;-P | 15:29 |
| SpeedEvil | That part of it is. | 15:29 |
| SpeedEvil | The harder part is the locking. | 15:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you need directory structures, need to handle sparse files, dunno what | 15:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | you don't need sparse files | 15:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | your task is definitely > mkfs.vfat | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | As fat doesn't do that. | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | but your source fs might do that | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | You don't care. | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | You build the FS as if the sparse files are real. | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | This does raise obvious issues though | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | There are edge cases all over. | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Performance isn't really one though | 15:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly, not even for a silly "find / >somewhere" | 15:34 |
| SpeedEvil | time find /home/user/data/ |wc | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | real3m 11.76s | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | 442877 454965 35382852 | 15:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as quite obviously without a *real* filehandle, just with the crappy info from tracker, you won't lift it anyway | 15:35 |
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| lardman | hi chaps | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm assuming tracker info is somewhat updated, and made complete with kernel hooks. | 15:36 |
| * DocScrutinizer shrugs | 15:36 | |
| * lardman gets round to reading about the new i-thingie | 15:36 | |
| * lardman likes the sound of gyros + accelerometers + digital compass, Nokia take note of the exciting possibilities | 15:36 | |
| SpeedEvil | i-thingie? | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Does it vibrate? | 15:37 |
| lardman | I imagine so | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Practically - integrated digital compasses have only really just come onto the market | 15:37 |
| RST38h | Only when Steve Jobs is around | 15:37 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, ok building arm version. Man I'm a little bit excited actually :) | 15:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, yes, I care because I browse Acid3 every day. :P | 15:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | mece, what? | 15:37 |
| mece | GeneralAntilles, it was nothing. | 15:38 |
| mece | GeneralAntilles, or did you wonder what I was building? | 15:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | mece, just wondering if you needed anything. ;) | 15:38 |
| mece | GeneralAntilles, ok, no. I just saw crashanddie mention you and I was wondering if you were around at all :) | 15:38 |
| alterego | Oh, I like the iPhone 4 launch, fail first time :D | 15:39 |
| mece | alterego, what failed? | 15:39 |
| alterego | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/10260634.stm | 15:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | crashanddie, also: Damn your lies. http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4684540533/ | 15:40 |
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| lardman | yuck, Apple! ;) | 15:40 |
| mece | alterego, lol | 15:41 |
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| sx0n | good response time | 15:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, N9. | 15:41 |
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| mece | hey nice, there's a N900 link below that apple fail! | 15:42 |
| alterego | This one is much better: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoqh27E6OuU | 15:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mece: with an amizing one sentence of info | 15:44 |
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| mece | DocScrutinizer, there is a video though. | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah | 15:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no time for such nonsense like videos | 15:45 |
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| mece | ok apparently my arm target was not up to date. all updated and now I'm really building :) | 15:50 |
| cehteh | mhm .. there is no fax solution for the n900 .. and mobile phones in general? | 15:50 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I thought you didn't browse the acid test? | 15:51 |
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| crashanddie | cehteh: fax? | 15:53 |
| crashanddie | wtf? | 15:53 |
| mece | should I create a garage project for hildon filemanager community edition? | 15:53 |
| cehteh | just thinking :) .. imaging you could send/receive faxes on your smartphone | 15:54 |
| cehteh | my newton had that! | 15:54 |
| cehteh | 15 years ago!! | 15:54 |
| crashanddie | no it shouldn;'t | 15:54 |
| crashanddie | fax is a dead technology | 15:54 |
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| crashanddie | email is recognised as having the same legal standing as fax | 15:54 |
| cehteh | here in germany its quit much used still | 15:54 |
| * Stskeeps decides to wear his 'Fixed in Fremantle' tshirt today | 15:54 | |
| crashanddie | yeah.. but germans... | 15:54 |
| cehteh | not by me i have no fax device, the only thing i ever used for faxing was my newton | 15:55 |
| mece | Stskeeps, :D | 15:55 |
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| Stskeeps | very handy tshirt if you want to be spotted in a crowd | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:55 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: my ISP offers a free fax service. Special number that is my "fax" number, and I get a PDF version of the faxes I receive per email | 15:55 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: same thing, I can email PDFs to a special email account, and it faxes them for me | 15:55 |
| cehteh | ah .. well i could set such up too i guess, not that i really need it now, but if it would be build in i'd use it | 15:56 |
| cehteh | (once or two times in a lifetime :P) | 15:56 |
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| GAN900 | crashanddie, well, we still can't have you spreading false information around. :P | 15:57 |
| mece | Stskeeps, kinda like my "Satanic Warmaster" t-shirt then :) | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | mece: i'm waiting for the MeeGo tshirts :P | 15:59 |
| mece | Stskeeps, fixed in meego? | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: http://www.backstreetmerch.com/product.asp?item=WLTMO01&add=1 | 16:00 |
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| Tachikoma | fax is definatly not dead here | 16:01 |
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| crashanddie | GAN900: has so, false information? | 16:01 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: You want some with the Intel logo? =) | 16:01 |
| Termana | backstreetmerch... this sounds like a reliable place to buy at | 16:01 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: your screenshot just confirmed what I said | 16:01 |
| Tachikoma | it's pretty common, and it's much easier to get paperwork to someone than mail often is. Govermental agencies are not yet able to handle documents that are sent by mail while they absolutly accept documents that were sent by fax | 16:02 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: if theres | 16:02 |
| Stskeeps | 's a nokia logo too, maybe | 16:02 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:02 |
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| mece | ok, let's see if my phone implodes with the customized filemanager. installing... | 16:02 |
| Tachikoma | i know because i do not have fasx and had to use it several times already this year, alternatively i would have had to send a snailmail | 16:02 |
| mece | it is a GO! | 16:03 |
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| RST38h | OMG, N900 has become unbearably slow | 16:04 |
| Dassu | htop is your friend | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: overclock it. | 16:04 |
| mece | wait, I spoke too soon.. need reboot. or restart of something anyway. doing reboot. | 16:04 |
| RST38h | htop does not tell me anything useful | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | apt-get install sysstats | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: powertop too | 16:05 |
| RST38h | what are sysstats? | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | dmesg | 16:05 |
| Dassu | Overlocking is not recomended since power consumption is directly related to the CPU frequency | 16:05 |
| Tachikoma | is iostat in systats? | 16:05 |
| mece | eehhe. | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | systats are the root package of iostats | 16:05 |
| mece | Dassu, I believe that was a joke. | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | It was. | 16:05 |
| Tachikoma | oki, i ned that | 16:05 |
| RST38h | ah I see | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume RST38h has a clue. | 16:05 |
| Dassu | mece: No it is not :| | 16:05 |
| mece | Dassu, I meant SpeedEvil's comments. | 16:05 |
| Dassu | oh | 16:05 |
| SpeedEvil | http://pagesperso-orange.fr/sebastien.godard/faq.html | 16:05 |
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| alterego | 960-by-640 pixel in the new iPhone | 16:08 |
| alterego | I was expecting more .. | 16:08 |
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| alterego | I thought, I might be wrong, but I thought they said, four times the pixels per inch | 16:08 |
| RST38h | It is still the same 3.6" screen though | 16:08 |
| alterego | That doesn't sound like 4x .. | 16:08 |
| RST38h | me wants 4.3" | 16:08 |
| achipa | X-Fade,how did our hoop friend get imported again ? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/hoopsfrenzy/1.0.5/ | 16:09 |
| Corsac | they doubled the resolution in both directions | 16:09 |
| alterego | Ah, okay | 16:09 |
| achipa | alterego: four times as much pixels | 16:09 |
| alterego | Yeah, I was just trying to find the original iPhone resolution but couldn't. | 16:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | Argh. I think there is a major bug in the auto-update application code. | 16:10 |
| achipa | alterego: though I am not at all sure if it's not some magic-pixel-tech cheat thingy, a la AMOLED | 16:10 |
| SpeedEvil | I just got a notification of 4 apps to update - and fmms wasn't in there. | 16:10 |
| alterego | Ah, 320x480? | 16:10 |
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| achipa | alterego: yes. Though 960x640 could be a funky RGB layout 640x480 | 16:13 |
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| mgedmin | stereo 640x480 ;) | 16:13 |
| achipa | mgedmin: no, as in 2 component pixels, counted separately for marketing purposes | 16:13 |
| Termana | I think you'll find there is no tricks being played here, like was/is played with AMOLED screens. | 16:14 |
| achipa | I think I'll wait to see the actual hardware :) | 16:14 |
| mece | hmm.. | 16:14 |
| mece | ok | 16:14 |
| mece | so the outcome was almost as i wanted. | 16:15 |
| alterego | Hrm .. | 16:15 |
| mece | now I can see filename extensions on for example txt files and png/jpg etc. can you see those in the regular file manager? | 16:16 |
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| mece | anyone? | 16:17 |
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| Trewas | mece: not for .txt or .jpg files at least | 16:19 |
| mece | alterego, the resolution makes sense, since otherwise they'd have trouble with the old apps. to simply double the pixels is very simple. | 16:19 |
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| mece | Trewas, thank you very much. | 16:19 |
| alterego | mece: I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. | 16:20 |
| alterego | I'm sure the screen will look brilliant. | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I question if simply integer rounding isn't as good. | 16:20 |
| alterego | I just think the name is a bit misleading. | 16:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | Can the user actually tell the difference at 285dpi | 16:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Maybe just | 16:20 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, I think it looks about as sharp as the N900. Moar pixels is always nice though imo. | 16:21 |
| alterego | Wht's the N900 dpi? | 16:21 |
| GAN900 | achipa, no trickery. | 16:22 |
| GAN900 | achipa, IPS. | 16:22 |
| SpeedEvil | It's about that too | 16:22 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, how so? | 16:22 |
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| achipa | ooh, lookie lookie, new Nokia Qt SDK ! | 16:25 |
| mece | oo nice. | 16:26 |
| mece | hey.. the maemo5.0 repository. is that supposed to be activated? | 16:26 |
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| mece | talking about http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/ | 16:27 |
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| GAN900 | Nokia REALLY better have something better planned for Harmattan | 16:29 |
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| GAN900 | WVGA and OMAP3 will be so far behind the times come fall. | 16:30 |
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| alterego | I think WVGA is fine. | 16:30 |
| * MohammadAG51 suggests a 1GHz OMAP3 | 16:31 | |
| achipa | OMAP3 1ghz is catch-up at best, considering it has to last through at least 2011 | 16:31 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: you rang last night? Still having issues with the IM status updater? | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm, I think i had a Q | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | i forgot anyways :) | 16:32 |
| achipa | and 2011 is likely the year of OMAP4 and dual core snapdragons | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | dual core is overrated | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | especially in mobiles | 16:32 |
| RST38h | indeed, few applications can make use of dual cores | 16:32 |
| RST38h | the memory is the bottleneck anyways | 16:32 |
| achipa | for android/iphone style multitasking, yes, but maemo/meego ? not so much | 16:32 |
| GAN900 | Cortex A9 or you're a generation behind. | 16:32 |
| RST38h | achipa: A question | 16:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | what CPU does the N8 use? | 16:33 |
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| RST38h | achipa: When your N900 is stuck and unresponsive, what do you think is the problem? Lack of CPU performance? | 16:33 |
| achipa | MohammadAG51: ARM11 fossil with broadcom DSP for video | 16:33 |
| Ikarus | RST38h: eMMC being shit slow :) | 16:33 |
| achipa | RST38h: I know, I know, we swap around | 16:34 |
| MohammadAG51 | achipa, isn't that the N97-kind | 16:34 |
| RST38h | achipa: Exactly. And you can have 8 cores if you want. It will not change a thing. | 16:34 |
| Ikarus | more memory would make more difference then a faster clock | 16:34 |
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| MohammadAG51 | RST38h, ssh and check top | 16:34 |
| RST38h | More memory. Faster memory. | 16:34 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: top stays pretty low all that time. | 16:34 |
| achipa | RST38h: the thing is that I DO expect more memory and faster swap to be available | 16:34 |
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| GAN900 | These things go hand-in-hand with a generational upgrade. | 16:35 |
| RST38h | achipa: And once you have those (if only), you may not even notice that you need more CPU | 16:35 |
| RST38h | achipa: because 600MHz-1GHz CortexA8 is really *enough* for most mobile things | 16:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | for now at least | 16:35 |
| RST38h | Correct | 16:35 |
| RST38h | But in order to make more use of the CPU power, you need bigger screen and bigger battery and better input facilities first | 16:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | i expect an i7 in a Maemo 7 device in 3 years :) | 16:36 |
| achipa | slightly less braindead software would help, too | 16:36 |
| RST38h | Otherwise, it makes no difference is the keyhole you are looking through is lit with a 40W bulb or a 500W bukb | 16:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | with a 1GP camera | 16:36 |
| b-man|laptop | lol | 16:37 |
| b-man|laptop | no, 1TP | 16:37 |
| alterego | In built 1080p projector :) | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG51 | overkill | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG51 | bah | 16:37 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Are you expecting to move to Antarctic then? | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG51 | 1080p will be old | 16:37 |
| MohammadAG51 | QFHD ftw | 16:37 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: in a phone? :P | 16:37 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Because that thing will be...mm...hot... | 16:37 |
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| MohammadAG51 | RST38h, well | 16:37 |
| b-man|laptop | with a TP you could read a sign from 100 miles away lol | 16:37 |
| alterego | RST38h: It'll be nitrogen cooled obviously :D | 16:38 |
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| MohammadAG51 | the poles should be molten | 16:38 |
| alterego | Anyhow, I'm off bbl | 16:38 |
| RST38h | alterego: Ah, don't tell me where he is gonna "house" the pump... | 16:38 |
| kryptt | \j wicket | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | RST38h, he can't, it's a family channel | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | :P | 16:38 |
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| * RST38h really just wants a bigger screen and longer battery. Nokia can keep CortexA8 in there, or even use that ARM11 fossil | 16:39 | |
| * b-man|laptop would be happy with more ram | 16:40 | |
| RST38h | A 1GHz ARM11 with 500MHz memory will run circles around the Cortex | 16:40 |
| RST38h | Ah, shit, you can just use ARM9 there :) | 16:40 |
| * MohammadAG51 would be happy with MW2 support | 16:40 | |
| Termana | <RST38h> indeed, few applications can make use of dual cores <-- are you trying to say this "few apps can use it because they aren't written that way" or "few apps can use it because it provides little benefit" | 16:41 |
| Tachikoma | what is the speed differentce between eMMC and a micro SD card? I'd expect the microSD to be slower, but frm my expereince with n800 i know that i might be wrong. There the two sd cards i had both were faster than the internal memory | 16:41 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, if it's available to be used, it'll be used. | 16:42 |
| GAN900 | Stuff like that sounds like saying 1GB will be all you'll ever need for a desktop HD in 1994. | 16:42 |
| GAN900 | The web is getting more complicated every day | 16:43 |
| GAN900 | That's the biggest thing that needs keeping up with. | 16:43 |
| Termana | Because if your saying they can't use it because they weren't written with multi-cores in mind (threading etc.) - this is a native app issue. Android apps will (should) automatically take advantage of it. | 16:43 |
| RST38h | Termana: few apps solve problems that can be split over two cores | 16:43 |
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| RST38h | GAN900: Oh, no, I am not repeating certain Gates' words :) | 16:43 |
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| RST38h | GAN900: Merely saying that CPU is not a bottleneck in these ARM-based systems. Once the memory bottleneck is more or less resolved, CPU may become the next bottleneck | 16:44 |
| RST38h | GAN900: And it is good that you have mentioned the web: your web browser need memory (more of it, faster of it) way more than it needs CPU | 16:45 |
| achipa | RST38h: except if you talk about the unholy Flash | 16:45 |
| RST38h | achipa: Same with flash | 16:45 |
| achipa | RST38h: how so ? It's a separate process. You don't want it to bog down the browser. | 16:46 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, I think we need both | 16:46 |
| GAN900 | and the faster memory is generally going to be tied with newer CPUs. | 16:47 |
| chem|st | killed my fox on my desktop yesterday... eating up 1.2GB mem and 2.4GB swap | 16:47 |
| GAN900 | Tachikoma, I think it depends on what you're doing. | 16:47 |
| achipa | RST38h: nobody says you should stick an OMAP4 in there with 256MB of RAM | 16:47 |
| chem|st | and I bet it was flash ads killing it | 16:47 |
| b-man|laptop | chem|st: how many tabs did you have open? lol | 16:48 |
| achipa | chem|st: what ? no flashblock ? :) | 16:48 |
| GAN900 | and with the multitasking these things generally do, dual core will be useful. | 16:48 |
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| chem|st | with flash about 3 or 4, and 20 others | 16:48 |
| chem|st | achipa: I cant block flash on a 100% flash site... | 16:48 |
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| Tachikoma | GAN900: how does the speed of some storage medium get influenzed by what one does? | 16:49 |
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| chem|st | freshly started with those 20-30 tabs it eats 500MB ram and no swap | 16:49 |
| b-man|laptop | the most tabs i've ever had open was about 65 lol | 16:49 |
| Tachikoma | i mean, of course, there is throughput and access time and different factors, but they should be the same no matter if i open the kernel or some video file | 16:49 |
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| achipa | RST38h: plus, do not underestimate the parallelism Qt can provide under the hood - that's something you get for free | 16:50 |
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| chem|st | I got this tab-toolkit and have up to 6 rows open with 15 tabs each | 16:50 |
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| achipa | (esp with QGraphicsView or signal/event heavy stuff) | 16:50 |
| b-man|laptop | O_o | 16:50 |
| chem|st | how do it put it to the side of the screen btw | 16:51 |
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| fiferboy | GAN900: Rays got their offense going last night | 16:53 |
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| lcukn900 | apt-get install novacaine | 16:55 |
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| ptl | W: Unable to locate package novacaine | 16:57 |
| GAN900 | fiferboy, you aren't kidding. | 16:57 |
| lcukn900 | ptl damn typo | 16:57 |
| lcukn900 | apt-get install novocaine | 16:57 |
| GAN900 | Hooray for a Peña grand slam | 16:57 |
| GAN900 | tech | 16:57 |
| fiferboy | GAN900: I told you the Jays were what they needed | 16:58 |
| ptl | W: Unable to locate package novocaine | 16:58 |
| ptl | what is this package all about? | 16:58 |
| lcukn900 | dentists | 16:58 |
| GAN900 | Tachikoma, random read/write, sequetial read/write, block size, etc. | 16:58 |
| lcukn900 | they are apt-get remove purging a tooth | 16:58 |
| GAN900 | Tachikoma, different flash types handle these with different degrees of competency. | 16:59 |
| achipa | well, at least "Create apps for early adopters" clears things about mainstreaming... | 16:59 |
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| * GAN900 wonders how dumbed-down Harmattan will be. | 17:00 | |
| GAN900 | Between capacitive insanity and that whole "mainstream" silliness. | 17:00 |
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| Termana | Just as an aside re: the flash (on desktop) discussion just above | 17:00 |
| Termana | Flash regularly locks up my machine and/or slows it right down | 17:01 |
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| Termana | AND | 17:01 |
| Termana | I have to drop to a terminal and manually kill it | 17:01 |
| lcukn900 | or just wait till its scanned | 17:01 |
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| achipa | heh, N97 got filed under smartphones | 17:02 |
| GAN900 | achipa, hilarious. | 17:02 |
| flux | hmm, has anyone noticed this? 1) start playing a network music stream on media player 2) stop it 3) switch from 3g to wlan or vice versa 4) music starts playing by itself | 17:02 |
| Termana | lcukn900, scanned? by what? It just sits there no matter what. I can close my browser completely off and half an hour come back and find flash still running. | 17:03 |
| flux | (pr1.2-feature I just noticed) | 17:03 |
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| flux | (and I'm wondering if there's a bug for that) | 17:03 |
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| frals | hmm | 17:04 |
| * frals is slightly lost | 17:04 | |
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| SpeedEvil | flux: there is a bug for that | 17:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | Please Stand By... | 17:05 |
| E0x | hmm when i am playing music and the screen is locked i press the power button to check the time and the player get pause for a few seconds , somebody experience this too ? | 17:05 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: if it scored a 100, then at one point it scored 20 | 17:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | E0x: stopped - or was it just lagging? | 17:06 |
| flux | speedevil, I think I found it | 17:06 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10536 | 17:06 |
| povbot | Bug 10536: Media Player starts to play music with no user intervention | 17:06 |
| flux | speedevil, 10536 | 17:06 |
| E0x | SpeedEvil: stopped | 17:06 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6907 also | 17:06 |
| povbot | Bug 6907: Media Player widget suddenly starts music after Phone call ends | 17:06 |
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| GAN900 | crashanddie, that sounds like one those white trash jokes I hear every so often. . . . | 17:06 |
| pexi | context-aware music player! | 17:07 |
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| E0x | SpeedEvil: do happe to you ? | 17:07 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: har har | 17:07 |
| E0x | happen* | 17:07 |
| Tachikoma | gibts schon location aware profile manager? | 17:07 |
| flux | speedevil, I think 6907 is possible a special case of 10536.. I can repeat it now easily 10536 easily, while 6907 apparently isn't easily reprodusible | 17:07 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: no. | 17:07 |
| E0x | damn | 17:08 |
| Tachikoma | is there already location aware profile manager? | 17:08 |
| E0x | SpeedEvil: you have power kernel ? | 17:08 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: no. | 17:08 |
| E0x | ok | 17:08 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: Well - have in the sense that I have a deb somewhere | 17:08 |
| E0x | i mean using it | 17:08 |
| pexi | Tachikoma, you should propably turn to steve for that kind of high level innovations :) | 17:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | I have used it - I'm using stock 1.2 ATM | 17:09 |
| E0x | me too | 17:09 |
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| crashanddie | Tachikoma: only english please | 17:11 |
| crashanddie | Tachikoma: especially when your sentence contains as many english words as german | 17:11 |
| lardman | makes it easier for the non-multi-linguists ;) | 17:12 |
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| Tachikoma | crashanddie: i already wrote the sentence again in english, didn't i? | 17:17 |
| * timeless_mbp kicks andre | 17:18 | |
| timeless_mbp | andre__: if you want us to use the bug tracker | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | then you have to let bugs die | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | otherwise, forget it | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | a bug which is marked as fixed in a release can't be reopened | 17:18 |
| timeless_mbp | it needs a new bug <period> | 17:18 |
| Macer | i think refit broke my hd in my macbook | 17:18 |
| Macer | the drive is good but i cant wipe it or reinitialize it | 17:19 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, disagree | 17:19 |
| timeless_mbp | well, forget about us using it | 17:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | you can't redact release notes | 17:19 |
| timeless_mbp | once you've published them, they're published | 17:19 |
| timeless_mbp | we do not need just five bugs | 17:19 |
| timeless_mbp | '1 browser crashes' | 17:19 |
| timeless_mbp | '2 browser is slow' | 17:20 |
| timeless_mbp | '3 browser ui sucks | 17:20 |
| timeless_mbp | '4 browser input methods are broken | 17:20 |
| timeless_mbp | '5 browser should do something else | 17:20 |
| timeless_mbp | we could keep reopening those 5 bugs forever | 17:20 |
| timeless_mbp | but that doesn't make them good bugs | 17:20 |
| timeless_mbp | if a bug is 'fixed' in that code has changed in order to 'fix' it | 17:20 |
| timeless_mbp | then a new bug needs to exist to track a new code fix | 17:20 |
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| crashanddie | Tachikoma: just saying | 17:20 |
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| Tachikoma | crashanddie: yeah, i just mixed channels up, am aware of that :) | 17:21 |
| frals | hmm | 17:21 |
| frals | how much is a ticket for helsinki metro? | 17:21 |
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| timeless_mbp | frals: ~2eur? | 17:21 |
| frals | alright | 17:21 |
| timeless_mbp | walking is cheaper :) | 17:22 |
| frals | cba to walk from this hotel to centre | 17:22 |
| timeless_mbp | where are you and where are you going? | 17:22 |
| frals | holiday inn helsinki west | 17:22 |
| frals | going -> centre:ish | 17:22 |
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| frals | or, if i dont go to sleep :p | 17:22 |
| timeless_mbp | a tram is ~1.80 EUR | 17:22 |
| andre__ | timeless_mbp, ok, I'll forget about you. np | 17:23 |
| timeless_mbp | but to take the "direct" tram, you need to walk to radison seeside | 17:23 |
| timeless_mbp | s/see/sea/ | 17:23 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: but to take the "direct" tram, you need to walk to radison seaside | 17:23 |
| timeless_mbp | the tram where you are would work if you transfer when you meet the 3 | 17:24 |
| timeless_mbp | but it saves you 20eurocents :) | 17:24 |
| timeless_mbp | the walk is ~15mins | 17:24 |
| timeless_mbp | through "scenic" helsinki :) | 17:24 |
| frals | i have a feeling ill see enough of helsinki in the coming weeks that i can safely take the metro now ;) | 17:25 |
| timeless_mbp | aww | 17:27 |
| timeless_mbp | they get jaded so fast | 17:27 |
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| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, interesting position. | 17:32 |
| * GAN900 had always just reopened in the past. | 17:32 | |
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| GAN900 | andre__, hey, with as many regressions as Nokia ships it'll make everybody look better. | 17:34 |
| GAN900 | We get more bugs filed | 17:34 |
| GAN900 | Nokia gets to pad out their numbers with pretend fixes. | 17:34 |
| GAN900 | It's a win-win. | 17:34 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, if you don't want this to be an issue, doing a better job testing or stop marking bugs pretend FIXED, eh? :P | 17:35 |
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| Stskeeps | scary, just saw someone with a debian tshirt | 17:41 |
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| Corsac | I often saw ones | 17:41 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, weird. | 17:41 |
| Corsac | see* | 17:41 |
| Corsac | sometime including myself ¬¬ | 17:42 |
| * GAN900 wears his MeeGo every so often. | 17:42 | |
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| timeless_mbp | GAN900: so | 17:44 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm pretty sure it was *fixed* | 17:44 |
| timeless_mbp | and that the system people broke the api later | 17:44 |
| alterego | I say someone with an ubuntu messenger bag yesterday, that was quite sweet. :D | 17:44 |
| timeless_mbp | that's not our fault | 17:44 |
| alterego | s/say/saw/ | 17:44 |
| infobot | alterego meant: I saw someone with an ubuntu messenger bag yesterday, that was quite sweet. :D | 17:44 |
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| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, well, that sounds like a new bug, then. | 17:46 |
| ShadowJK | To bug reporters it's only a new bug if the reporters too see it in the fixed state at some point :-) | 17:46 |
| * GAN900 's screen clicks when you press near the Nokia logo. | 17:47 | |
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| ShadowJK | One thing that's good in Ovi Maps is the search | 17:48 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: my screen just always clicks :) | 17:48 |
| alterego | GAN900: 'ine vibrates :P | 17:48 |
| timeless_mbp | and that was my point... | 17:49 |
| ShadowJK | Sygic's search is so fragile it needs local knowledge to work :/ | 17:49 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: are you sending feedback to sygic? | 17:50 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: I found a way to get in everywhere :D | 17:50 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: http://bighugelabs.com/viewpostcard.php?id=186941-d5c88 | 17:51 |
| ShadowJK | timeless_mbp, I did in their own thread before they realized tmo is a wasteland :) | 17:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: heh | 17:51 |
| timeless_mbp | you should know better! | 17:51 |
| timeless_mbp | send your feedback through their system | 17:52 |
| GAN900 | alterego / timeless_mbp, vibrating being different than the peizo-plate like clicking I get when I press it. | 17:52 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: my n900 is off :) | 17:52 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, Ovi's search is amazingly useless. | 17:52 |
| timeless_mbp | or has the screen locked | 17:52 |
| timeless_mbp | whatever | 17:52 |
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| ShadowJK | GAN900, it works wonderfully I think | 17:52 |
| Tachikoma | timeless_mbp: is there anything about OVi not amazingly useless? | 17:53 |
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| ShadowJK | Like, you can enter the address all on one line, and it figures out what you mean | 17:53 |
| timeless_mbp | Tachikoma: there's stuff that's amazingly amusing | 17:53 |
| timeless_mbp | does that count? | 17:53 |
| Tachikoma | timeless_mbp: ok, that is true | 17:53 |
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| alterego | GAN900: I've noticed that there's GSM interferrence during my phone calls unless I apply pressure to the top side with the power button. I think it might be realted to a drop not so long ago :H | 17:53 |
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| Tachikoma | i met some ovi marketing people in the city the other week | 17:53 |
| alterego | at least, I don't remember it happening prior to that. | 17:53 |
| ShadowJK | Sygic wants you to enter street address, street number, city, town (and you get 0 results if you don't know that city means region or town means village, or if you don't know what random entity is entered into the village field in their database) | 17:54 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, I can't find anything I search for by name. | 17:54 |
| Tachikoma | when i asked about ovi and n900 they were suddenly very quiet | 17:54 |
| alterego | not sure if it warrants insurance use though. | 17:54 |
| timeless_mbp | Tachikoma: heh | 17:54 |
| ShadowJK | Like, I had problems finding my own address in Sygic, I basically had to bruteforce try combinations of my address, and things that I wouldn't normally put in my address, before it found it | 17:55 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, you look like a homeless person in that picture. :P | 17:55 |
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| ShadowJK | and Ovi Maps is just.. I put in the street name and it says oh there are two streets like that in the world, did you mean this one or that one | 17:55 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: yeah, just a quick try | 17:55 |
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| crashanddie | GAN900: not much better than your avatar, though | 17:55 |
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| GAN900 | crashanddie, :D | 17:56 |
| * GAN900 needs to update his avatar. | 17:56 | |
| alterego | i actually quite like Nokia Maps on the N900 | 17:56 |
| digitalstimulus | ooh navigation. I used to have the map application that came with n810 until they evaporated, now I have found navit. Anyone know of a different program for n810 / Diablo? | 17:57 |
| alterego | Especially now it remembers which view I prefer (night mode). | 17:57 |
| Tachikoma | the update with 1.2 however broke the roouting with ovi maps on n900 for me | 17:57 |
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| alterego | Tachikoma: really? works fine for me, flash or ota update? | 17:57 |
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| digitalstimulus | or does anyone know if it is possible to access the n810 GPS receiver through USB? | 17:58 |
| Tachikoma | i click on the route icon, then i get one field saying "your gps location" as point A and can enter something in the next field as point B. Then it searches and once it found B, the first entry "Your GPS location is gone" and what was supposed to be the end point i wnat to got to now the starting point ... | 17:58 |
| Tachikoma | alterego: ota, afterwards flashed. | 17:59 |
| Tachikoma | both, emmc and root | 17:59 |
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| Tachikoma | it's just totally weird | 17:59 |
| alterego | how so? | 17:59 |
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| Tachikoma | well, the starting point is there and set to my gps location until i add something i want to go to | 18:01 |
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| alterego | maybe there's a problem between the N900 and what ever is directly behind you :P I have to admit, it took me a couple of times to get routing to work properly. | 18:02 |
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| crashanddie | GAN900: for $74 you can get a lifetime press card from the International Freelance Photographer Organisation... | 18:02 |
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| toresbe | for less than a dollar you can print your own, which is rarely confirmed. | 18:03 |
| toresbe | Oftentimes, an L lens is enough in itself. | 18:04 |
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| lardman | ah, the wonders of Windows, reboot time, bbl | 18:04 |
| crashanddie | toresbe: nope, it ain't | 18:04 |
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| crashanddie | toresbe: at least, not where I live | 18:05 |
| GAN900 | toresbe, the press card sounds cheaper. :P | 18:05 |
| toresbe | crashanddie: that contradicts my experience, at least | 18:05 |
| crashanddie | toresbe: do you live where I do? | 18:05 |
| toresbe | I don't know. Do you live in Norway? | 18:05 |
| crashanddie | nope, so mileage may vary | 18:05 |
| toresbe | crashanddie: One time I got away by just attaching one of those flash holder things for cameras without hot shoes. | 18:05 |
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| toresbe | That embiggened the camera enough to get me into a movie set. | 18:06 |
| crashanddie | toresbe: france is extremely anal on photography laws, though yes, big lens usually means they take you seriously | 18:06 |
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| crashanddie | which goes to show how clueless people are about photography as a whole | 18:07 |
| toresbe | Heh. i liked this dialog box. | 18:07 |
| toresbe | "No stream founds in file, cannot proceed." <Denial> <Acceptance> | 18:07 |
| toresbe | both quit the program. :) | 18:07 |
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| MohammadAGRX-51 | how the hell is my nick in use... | 18:13 |
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| pupnik_ | http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/08/nokia-demonstrates-n8-video-editing-capabilities/ nice | 18:14 |
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| FauxFaux | Does anyone actually know what this freemantle/ssu/205 repo is (that my device shipped with), as apposed to the /mc0? | 18:28 |
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| style | Hi, How can I set my n900 to connect mobile internet automatically? | 18:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | style: hmm. Aha | 18:36 |
| GAN900 | style, in the connection settings. | 18:37 |
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| style | it just says "no saved available networks" and then I've to choose it manually. before PR1.2 update it worked automatically :/ | 18:37 |
| emc | Hi, I've seen you can upload maemo apps to the OVI store. Is it also possible to upload ringtones/videos and wallpapers to the OVI store? | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | style: Go to settings in the app menu. Then internet connections. Select 'connet automatically' | 18:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Select 't-mobile internet' or whatever | 18:37 |
| style | SpeedEvil: ah! thanks dude! | 18:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | np | 18:38 |
| SpeedEvil | emc: yes - at least it was - there were wallpapers. | 18:38 |
| BCMM | does the n900 do 802.11n? | 18:39 |
| GAN900 | lol | 18:40 |
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| emc | SpeedEvil: this option seems to be gone. | 18:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | no | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | not without http://wiki.maemo.org/wiki/N900_Hardware_USB_Host | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | (which would be silly) | 18:41 |
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| BCMM | "There is currently no text in this page" | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | emc: what option? | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 18:42 |
| * SpeedEvil knows little of the ovi store. | 18:42 | |
| BCMM | probably because that wiki doesn't use /wiki/ | 18:42 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 18:43 |
| BCMM | i thought as of last week stuff was rather more advanced than that page suggests? | 18:45 |
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| Tachikoma | i really like that n900 has support for usb host mode. After everyone said it will never appear :) | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not there yet. | 18:46 |
| SpeedEvil | A dedicated team of people is trying various approaches. | 18:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | It'll with luck - be user-ready in a few weeks. | 18:46 |
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| Tachikoma | SpeedEvil: i don;t really ned it, i just like the way things go on n900 | 18:47 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 18:48 |
| Tachikoma | i had it with n800 and never used it beside for testing ... | 18:48 |
| Tachikoma | oh wait - no, i actually used | 18:48 |
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| Tachikoma | it | 18:48 |
| Tachikoma | I connected a sisusb vga adapter and was able to connect my n800 to a monitor :) Well - but i also just tested that though ... | 18:49 |
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| Tachikoma | oh - and is it true that skype video phoning does not work between n900 and n800 - or is this my problem only again | 18:50 |
| andre__ | Skype video is supported on N800? that would be news to me | 18:51 |
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| RST38h | moo. | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | oow | 18:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: last week's stuff was missleading as people thought the one success story on a testing kernel badly patched to death was already the real thing. Mohammad's success was first working hostmode for a special usb memstick, without any special adapters or kickstart PC, so it basically was a POC for the HW. We now know it *can* be done. But there's still a lot of work until it works "like on a linux" | 19:01 |
| * FauxFaux can't get enough free space on / to do anything. /o\ | 19:01 | |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: i didn't think it was gonna be in extras tomorrow - i just thought that knowing it was definitely possible was new | 19:02 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: "special" memstick? | 19:03 |
| andre__ | FauxFaux, http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space ? | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really. We seen hostmode working with kickstart PC (egoshin's method) for quite some time | 19:03 |
| FauxFaux | andre__: I think I've tried everything. | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: one particular menstick | 19:03 |
| BCMM | oh, specific | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: it doesn't work with arbitrary brands | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | yet! | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | seems with most memsticks the controller enters a suspend state which it can't get out anymore | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | due to the patched-dead kernel plus script doing something wrong | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | we're working on a clean implementation | 19:09 |
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| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: just looked at the tmo thread - yeah, it kinda got kicked to death with "hurry up" and "can i have a copy" | 19:11 |
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| MohammadAG | X-Fade, ping | 19:12 |
| dr34m | anybody use n900 with pc software? i tried pc suite from nokia and ovi suite somehow it wont really recognize the phone to sync with pc or import contacts etc. or create a backup | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | so we moved on to "somewhere else" ;-) | 19:12 |
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| MohammadAG | X-Fade, could you take down the USBcontrol package? it's quite useless and it's causing a lot of spam on the forums | 19:12 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: i guess the n900 is getting attention from a lot of people who aren't really familiar with open-source | 19:13 |
| MohammadAG | i.e trolls | 19:13 |
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| BCMM | MohammadAG: that too, but also people who just aren't used to developers being on the same forum as them | 19:13 |
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| BCMM | i mean, i'm pretty excited about hostmode, but i'm trying not to harrass the people developing it | 19:14 |
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| MohammadAG | I'm pretty excited my device "has a positive defect" :P | 19:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: your USB memstick is the device | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | with the 'defect' | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, worked with 3 mem sticks | 19:15 |
| BCMM | but i've posted to the bugzillas of i dunno how many places, and more or less know when information is useful and when ti isn#t | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | :) | 19:15 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: defect being the n900 hardware having hostmode although it shouldn't, or what? | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | cool, inverting xchat colours make it terminal-y | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | BCMM, idk, t-tan just says it's defective cause hostmode worksforme | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | I took my F-F adapter to copy some file for someone | 19:16 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: your specific n900, you mean? | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: then it's probably a timing issue | 19:16 |
| MohammadAG | it failed on the first attempt, worked on the second | 19:16 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, yes, it is a timing issue | 19:16 |
| MohammadAG | which isn't really helpful | 19:16 |
| MohammadAG | BCMM, not sure, but I doubt it's really a defect | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, we'll get rid of those timing issues, once the kernel doesn't need any more special timing to enter hostmode | 19:17 |
| MohammadAG | I only get negative defects | 19:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway this gets too technical for here, let's take it "somewhere else" please, MohammadAG | 19:18 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, heh | 19:18 |
| MOUD | Hey all | 19:18 |
| Mece | in c, is it else if or elseif? | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah I know I started it | 19:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | else { if... I'd guess | 19:20 |
| MOUD | I want to overclock my phone. What is the highest speed it can reach? | 19:20 |
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| BCMM | Mece: two seperate statements | 19:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Depends if you've got a large fan or not. | 19:20 |
| Mece | k, thanks. | 19:20 |
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| BCMM | MOUD: depends how good your throw is | 19:20 |
| BCMM | overclocking won't make a great deal of difference though | 19:20 |
| MOUD | i dont want to open or add a fan to it | 19:20 |
| frosty` | BCMM: lol @ throw | 19:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MOUD: 3h to burnout is fastest speed you reach doom | 19:21 |
| Mece | ok thanks. | 19:21 |
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| MOUD | DocScrutinizer: 3h? | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~overclocking | 19:21 |
| infobot | "OK, listen up. This is your CPU." apt drops the CPU into a hot frying pan. "This is your CPU on overclocking. Any questions?" | 19:21 |
| MohammadAG | yes, is it scrambled? | 19:22 |
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| MOUD | i dont know what you are talking about. :/ | 19:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | Overclocking the CPU may compromise its reliaility. | 19:22 |
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| MohammadAG | as well as its lifetime | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | MOUD: We are talking about OVERCLOCKING IS BAD AND SILLY | 19:22 |
| SpeedEvil | The manufacture warrantes the CPU anyway for only 20000 hours - 80 days - at full speed. | 19:23 |
| BCMM | frosty`: heh, i wonder which is more likely to ruin your phone - overclocking, or that program that encourages you to throw it in the air... | 19:23 |
| BCMM | Mece: afaik, it is syntactically and practically just nesting the conditionals | 19:23 |
| BCMM | (i am a C sorta-newbie though) | 19:23 |
| frosty` | BCMM: put the two together for a good time | 19:23 |
| MOUD | BCMM: i think it;s the app :P | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | where full speed is what? 600? | 19:23 |
| frosty` | MOUD: i think you might be wrong :) | 19:23 |
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| MOUD | frosty`: what if u throw it and somebody spooks you? ;) | 19:24 |
| Tachikoma | is there already a project for http://julius.sourceforge.jp/en_index.php on n900? | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | , it can perform almost real-time decoding on most current PCs | 19:25 |
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| jacekowski | MOUD: some people managed to get it to almost 1GHz | 19:26 |
| SpeedEvil | The n900 is around 30 times slower than your average PC | 19:26 |
| jacekowski | not that slow | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | I got it to 5GHz | 19:26 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: yes, that slow. | 19:26 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Kernel compile takes 3h on n900. Around 8 mins on my laptop | 19:26 |
| MOUD | jacekowski: I know but I want to know if someone has reached a higher speed without any modification on the phone | 19:27 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: around 3 minutes on my server | 19:27 |
| jacekowski | MOUD: that was without mods | 19:27 |
| BCMM_ | SpeedEvil: in CPU speed, yes - but a lot of stuff one does on the PC is slowed down mostly by HDD seek time | 19:27 |
| jaska | iirc kernel compile took ~2 minutes in 2004 | 19:27 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: true. | 19:27 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM: but a voice recogniser is pretty much purely a compute task | 19:27 |
| MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer> I got it to 5GHz | 19:27 |
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| MOUD | jacekowski: i see | 19:27 |
| MohammadAG | pfft, I got it to 1THz | 19:28 |
| solrize | hard disks on pc's for any seek intensive stuff is pretty obsolete | 19:28 |
| solrize | disks are tape (bulk storage) | 19:28 |
| BCMM_ | SpeedEvil: i was lagging out when that was posted, i guess - need a new adsl router, or need to turn mobilehotspot back on and annoy t-mobile | 19:28 |
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| solrize | system programs etc = SSD's | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: only with a flux compensator and a migration filter | 19:28 |
| jacekowski | solrize: SSDs are slow | 19:28 |
| Tachikoma | jacekowski: what exactly does "mod" mean in relation to n900. I saw threads on talk that ask people to show their mods but did not read them. Is that just standing for "modification" or is it something more specific | 19:28 |
| SpeedEvil | RAM FTW. | 19:28 |
| jacekowski | solrize: and wear quite fast for any real use | 19:28 |
| BCMM_ | anyway, compiling sources just happens to be almost totally CPU-bound, in my experience | 19:28 |
| solrize | nah, not any more, they fixed that | 19:28 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, also needed a mugwarmer | 19:28 |
| jacekowski | solrize: you can't fix that | 19:28 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: Well - not really even on n900. | 19:28 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, sigh, if only you can write to RAM | 19:29 |
| jacekowski | solrize: they added better wear leveling into them | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: at 1THz the device itself warms mugs nicely | 19:29 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: make -j4 is actually significantly faster than make -j1 on n900 | 19:29 |
| BCMM_ | SpeedEvil: hmm? | 19:29 |
| Tachikoma | DocScrutinizer: with some labambaregulator you can go even higher | 19:29 |
| BCMM_ | SpeedEvil: why is that? | 19:29 |
| jacekowski | solrize: but ssd can't take as much writes as any HDD | 19:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: I would imagine it's a fair number of small file writes. | 19:29 |
| jacekowski | solrize: and 15k RPM hdd is faster anyways | 19:29 |
| BCMM_ | SpeedEvil: yes, but why does -j4 help with that? | 19:29 |
| solrize | yeah but when you do the math it's enough for practical purposes | 19:30 |
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| MOUD | now... changing my topic... Yesterday I installed Zoutube and a few hours later there was an update for it but I didnt like. Is there a way to "downgrade" (is it a word?) the program? | 19:30 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: It makes it run 4 compiles at once. | 19:30 |
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| BCMM_ | SpeedEvil: yes, but why does that help? | 19:30 |
| jacekowski | well, you are supposed to use -j<num_cores+1> | 19:30 |
| jacekowski | BCMM_: load all cores | 19:30 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: So that when one stalls on IO, the other job that's not stalled kicks in. | 19:30 |
| valdyn | some ssd are slow maybe | 19:30 |
| BCMM_ | SpeedEvil: i was gonna say, is -j4 also faster than -j2? | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM_: concurrent CPU and IO | 19:31 |
| solrize | ssd's can saturate sata 1 and maybe sata 2, and of course you can raid them just like hdd's | 19:31 |
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| BCMM_ | ah, that makes sense | 19:31 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: Very marginally, yes | 19:31 |
| jacekowski | solrize: sata 2 can do 3GBit/s | 19:31 |
| jacekowski | solrize: find me ssd that can do 1/3rd of that | 19:31 |
| BCMM_ | i suppose compiling a single module works something like: read stuff in, process; write | 19:31 |
| BCMM_ | such that having something else read while the other is processing helps? | 19:31 |
| jacekowski | solrize: sequential read | 19:31 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: sort-of. | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | BCMM_: exactly | 19:31 |
| solrize | jacekowski, the cheap intel x25m my laptop is faster than that | 19:32 |
| jacekowski | solrize: and flash slows down with age | 19:32 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: there may be 4 or 5 source files, and link stages going on | 19:32 |
| BCMM_ | hmm, that would probably be less true on a hard disk, since sometimes two would try and read at once, and seek time would happen | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 19:32 |
| jacekowski | £200? | 19:32 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: yeah - flash means that read seeks are out of the picture. | 19:32 |
| SpeedEvil | (largely) | 19:32 |
| BCMM_ | anyway, compilation is still mostly cpu-dependant | 19:32 |
| BCMM_ | (otherwise stuff like distcc would perform terribly) | 19:32 |
| greenfly | jacekowski: can any sata 2 drives actually push 3gbit/s? | 19:33 |
| solrize | flash is a huge speedup on this laptop, of course it replaced a laptop hdd and not a server raid system | 19:33 |
| BCMM_ | i want a desktop ssd | 19:33 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: Indeed - which is a good comparison to another task that's seek dependant - like the original question was asked about - voice recognition | 19:33 |
| jacekowski | greenfly: no | 19:33 |
| greenfly | having official support for a certain amount of bandwidth doesn't mean you can actually push the data that fast | 19:33 |
| greenfly | so it's more or less irrelevant | 19:33 |
| BCMM_ | i'm pretty sure there are some things i do both on my desktop and on the n900 that are faster on the phone | 19:33 |
| valdyn | BCMM_: sure, seeks | 19:33 |
| solrize | i love my ssd | 19:34 |
| greenfly | where SSDs would come in handy is the situation with your kernel compilation where you'd like to do other things with your computer at the same time | 19:34 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: Yes. General computing without much IO, that are not sped up by the DSP are not one. | 19:34 |
| jacekowski | greenfly: that's why you have cache | 19:34 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: Which pretty much describes voice recognition. | 19:34 |
| BCMM_ | SpeedEvil: yeah, i've gone all offtopic because i wasn't actually in here when the voice recognition was mentioned, sorry | 19:34 |
| greenfly | jacekowski: for which? saturating the bandwidth or random seeks? | 19:34 |
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| jacekowski | greenfly: additional 4G of ram costs half of ssd | 19:35 |
| jacekowski | greenfly: yes | 19:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 19:35 |
| greenfly | jacekowski: yeah, file cache works great for files you've already read | 19:35 |
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| jacekowski | greenfly: read ahead | 19:35 |
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| jacekowski | greenfly: + delayed writes | 19:35 |
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| BCMM_ | i'd like to see some kind of system to use a small SSD like a persistent version of caching in ram | 19:35 |
| greenfly | but doesn't help you when the system boots or you do something new | 19:35 |
| jacekowski | BCMM_: tam can push 4-5Gbytes/s | 19:36 |
| jacekowski | BCMM_: ram* | 19:36 |
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| solrize | http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=208896 | 19:36 |
| jacekowski | well, i had a lot of ssds here | 19:36 |
| jacekowski | kingston/intel/whatever | 19:36 |
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| BCMM_ | jacekowski: for large numbers of small reads (like starting most software), actual read speed surely has negligible impact compared to HDD seek times? | 19:37 |
| jacekowski | all tested with OpenPerformanceTest.icf | 19:37 |
| [DarkGUNMAN] | has anyone here had any luck with dbus-switchboard and changing the rtsp association? | 19:37 |
| jacekowski | BCMM_: that's why you defragment | 19:37 |
| solrize | http://techreport.com/articles.x/16291 x25e raid benchmark | 19:38 |
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| BCMM_ | jacekowski: defragmentation won't put all the libraries and resources a program loads in a nice line on the disk :) | 19:38 |
| greenfly | defrag also won't figure out which two programs are going to hammer the disks for different data at the same time | 19:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: It will if you do it right | 19:39 |
| solrize | these days on a server i'd even think of putting the system files and /tmp on a large ramdisk | 19:39 |
| greenfly | not to mention I thought we were talking about Linux in here. defrag is archaic | 19:39 |
| BCMM_ | SpeedEvil: how can one do it right, especially if other programs use a different combination of libraries including some of the same? | 19:39 |
| greenfly | a modern file system shouldn't need it | 19:39 |
| valdyn | solrize: because you think you can be wiser than the kernel heuristics? | 19:39 |
| BCMM_ | greenfly: there are still ways to cause fragmentation | 19:39 |
| greenfly | solrize: creating your own ramdisk is an overclocker kid thing, kernel knows best | 19:40 |
| greenfly | BCMM_: oh certainly, but it's relatively minimal in a decent modern file system | 19:40 |
| BCMM_ | solrize: if you had sufficient RAM, they would tend towards being cached anyway | 19:40 |
| SpeedEvil | BCMM_: You can fragment it just right so that boot is a mostly linear read | 19:40 |
| BCMM_ | SpeedEvil: has anybody actually done that? | 19:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | I recall some people saying they'd done tests of hacked-together tools. | 19:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's not really hard to do | 19:41 |
| solrize | i don't think that's right, the kernel doesn't know that /tmp is a temporary file system. if it's on a hard disk, anything that you write to /tmp will eventually actually get written to disk so that it won't be lost if the system loses power. the kernel doesn't realize that it's ok for /tmp to be wiped on reboot | 19:41 |
| valdyn | its also not as useful as one might think | 19:41 |
| SpeedEvil | you start out with an instrumented kernel that spits out all files opened say | 19:41 |
| SpeedEvil | valdyn: It will speed up boot. It won't speed up much else. | 19:41 |
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| valdyn | SpeedEvil: yea, but not by much | 19:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Depends - with a well planned parallel boot starrt - possibly not | 19:42 |
| solrize | and the kernel heuristics aren't that great for normal paging either, because the kernel doesn't know which pages are likely to be accessed again a long time later | 19:42 |
| jacekowski | solrize: well, on lot of systems /tmp is mounted as tmpfs | 19:42 |
| solrize | i guess that can help | 19:43 |
| greenfly | solrize: the point is that any file you open, the kernel stores in RAM. on Linux the kernel keeps files in RAM if it can. Over time free RAM gets close to zero due to this | 19:43 |
| greenfly | so creating a ramdisk is redundant | 19:43 |
| jacekowski | greenfly: linux filesystems do fragment as well | 19:43 |
| GAN900 | Hey, look, a book on MeeGo dev. | 19:43 |
| greenfly | because the kernel knows better than you do, which files should stay in RAM | 19:43 |
| solrize | greenfly, that's the thing, the kernel caches EVERYTHING instead of only caching what needs to be cached | 19:43 |
| greenfly | jacekowski: did I say they don't? | 19:43 |
| solrize | and so the important stuff gets evicted by stuff that won't actually be accessed again | 19:44 |
| SpeedEvil | solrize: But throwing away that cache is almost free | 19:44 |
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| solrize | no it's not because then you have to re-read the stuff that got flushed | 19:44 |
| jacekowski | solrize: nope | 19:44 |
| greenfly | solrize: eventually things that aren't accessed are replaced by new things that are. again, it would still know better than you would, and be able to react faster to the changing system | 19:44 |
| jacekowski | solrize: kernel does a lot more with caching | 19:44 |
| jacekowski | solrize: than just lru | 19:44 |
| valdyn | solrize: youre not the first one with this idea, its been tested for a decade at least, and its not showing benefit | 19:44 |
| greenfly | so creating a ramdisk in this day and age to cache things is redundant and in a way could hurt your performance | 19:45 |
| valdyn | solrize: for a decade just on linux | 19:45 |
| SpeedEvil | greenfly: You're assuming that it can know. For example - play a 1G mediafile, and it will cache it all and flush your cache | 19:45 |
| jonne|reconnecte | is there a way to put the n900 in standby/sleep or something? | 19:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I think there is a advise_reading_once or something | 19:45 |
| greenfly | SpeedEvil: are you doing to store your media files in a ramdisk? | 19:45 |
| SpeedEvil | jonne|reconnecte: why | 19:45 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: 1G sequential read will not flush cache | 19:45 |
| greenfly | er, s/doing/going/ | 19:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | I know it did in the past | 19:45 |
| solrize | it does seem to do that | 19:45 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: it might mess up buffers little bit | 19:45 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: but dentry and inode cache will stay intact | 19:46 |
| solrize | i know when i do large file transfers it eats all the ram | 19:46 |
| jonne|reconnecte | booting takes ages, and i'm going somewhere where i won't be able to charge it often | 19:46 |
| frals | o/ VDVsx | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | jonne|reconnecte: With it normally setup, you should get ~140 hours charge. | 19:46 |
| jacekowski | solrize: if you have free ram it will use it | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | jonne|reconnecte: If you don't touch it. | 19:46 |
| MOUD | where can I download the version before the latest version of Zoutube? | 19:46 |
| greenfly | anyway, even in that scenario, how is sequestering off a large segment of your RAM and storing files in that ramdisk better than having all that extra RAM available for the kernel cache? | 19:46 |
| jonne|reconnecte | really? | 19:46 |
| jacekowski | solrize: but policy for dropping buffers and caches is different | 19:46 |
| VDVsx | hey frals | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | jonne|reconnecte: yes | 19:46 |
| jonne|reconnecte | it's dead in a day for me | 19:46 |
| jonne|reconnecte | but then again, i can't resist using it | 19:46 |
| SpeedEvil | jonne|reconnecte: that is with GSM on, and logged into a wifi network, responding to pings. | 19:47 |
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| jacekowski | greenfly: you can cause infinite delay for write for temp files | 19:47 |
| greenfly | but anyway I thought the whole ramdisk / kernel cache issue was well understood by now | 19:47 |
| solrize | jacek, ok, so suppose that i open a browser, look at some web pages, close the browser, and do a large file copy. what happens to the pages that had been cached for the now-closed browser? | 19:47 |
| SpeedEvil | jonne|reconnecte: get and run powertop. Over ssh | 19:47 |
| solrize | jacekowski, sorry, autocomplete fail ;) | 19:47 |
| jonne|reconnecte | i powertop in the maemo repo's? | 19:47 |
| SpeedEvil | jonne|reconnecte: this gives you an idea of what's running in the background. | 19:47 |
| jacekowski | solrize: well, that's browser cache | 19:47 |
| jacekowski | solrize: not kernel cache | 19:47 |
| jonne|reconnecte | *is | 19:47 |
| BCMM_ | what greenfly said - leave the ram free for caching, the stuff will end up in ram anyway | 19:47 |
| solrize | no, i mean the pages of the browser program segment itself are cached | 19:47 |
| jacekowski | solrize: stuff from web is never cached by anything except browser | 19:47 |
| BCMM_ | if you really need to influence it, have some script read it all into cache at boot | 19:48 |
| solrize | i don't mean caching stuff from the web, i mean caching the browser itself!!! | 19:48 |
| jacekowski | solrize: 1 - shared libs | 19:48 |
| SpeedEvil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 jonne|reconnecte - no. | 19:48 |
| jacekowski | that will stay in cache | 19:48 |
| valdyn | solrize: browsers use their own caching, that does not just get swapped out because you copied a file | 19:48 |
| solrize | why would the shared libs stay in cache after the browser is closed? | 19:48 |
| SpeedEvil | jonne|reconnecte: Also - anything that polls over gsm ever is expensive. As is scanning for wireless networks. | 19:48 |
| greenfly | solrize: we are talking about the kernel file cache. the browser binary and any other files it would load, would likely stay cached in RAM provided you had the free RAM to do it | 19:48 |
| BCMM_ | solrize: files that have been read stay in cache until there is no room for them | 19:48 |
| jacekowski | solrize: there are 3 kinds of caches | 19:49 |
| solrize | greenfly, right, but you do a large file copy that eats all the free ram | 19:49 |
| jacekowski | solrize: and with some filesystems 4 | 19:49 |
| greenfly | solrize: because the kernel realizes if it has the free RAM to cache them, why delete them? | 19:49 |
| jonne|reconnecte | so putting it in offline mode when not using it should be great? | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | jonne|reconnecte: yes. | 19:49 |
| jacekowski | solrize: dentry, inode, buffers | 19:49 |
| solrize | greenfly, because something else wants the ram! | 19:49 |
| jonne|reconnecte | and i guess turning off apps | 19:49 |
| SpeedEvil | jonne|reconnecte: Unless you've got something that is draining the battery Some widgets are not as idle as they should be. | 19:49 |
| greenfly | solrize: so in your situation, you'd set aside 1GB of RAM that your scenario of a file copy now couldn't use | 19:49 |
| greenfly | so you just stole 1GB of RAM from your system in the hopes that you actually know what files are accessed the most by the system | 19:49 |
| solrize | greenfly, right, and that is a real world situation that happens all the time | 19:49 |
| solrize | greenfly, right, and in fact i often DO know what files are accessed the most | 19:50 |
| jacekowski | greenfly: red the fucking code of memory manager | 19:50 |
| greenfly | again, it'd be better to give the kernel that 1GB instead of your ramdisk | 19:50 |
| jacekowski | greenfly: instead of babbling about something you know nothing about | 19:50 |
| greenfly | . . . | 19:50 |
| solrize | greenfly, i ran a search engine and the only way to get it to perorm tolerably was to "cat index* > /dev/null" a few times an hour, so i had a cron job for that | 19:51 |
| jacekowski | and i'm going home | 19:51 |
| valdyn | the question is if browser startup is even limited by disk speed | 19:51 |
| solrize | because the kernel kept flushing it otherwise | 19:51 |
| greenfly | jacekowski: nice ad-hom | 19:52 |
| jacekowski | flush is done as soon as possible | 19:52 |
| Kegetys | surely you _can_ know more than the kernel of future file use, but such cases are rare and not "typical" | 19:52 |
| jacekowski | so flush might occur 1s after write() call from app | 19:52 |
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| jacekowski | again - there is difference between flush and drop | 19:52 |
| jonne|reconnecte | hmm, that powertop output looks different than the one that comes with ubuntu | 19:52 |
| jonne|reconnecte | not sure how to interpret it | 19:53 |
| jacekowski | jonne|reconnecte: it's different powertop | 19:53 |
| jacekowski | jonne|reconnecte: ubuntu powertop is intel powertop | 19:53 |
| Kegetys | if you (do work)(watch a bunch of movies)(do work again) then the movie caching can push all your work stuff off the cache and it needs to be read again, and the caching doesnt necessarily help with the movies at all since its mostly just sequential read | 19:53 |
| Ikarus | Kegetys: erm, actually the caching can help | 19:53 |
| Tachikoma | "oh - and is it true that skype video phoning does not work between n900 and n800 - or is this my problem only again" - sorry i mixed it up - i meant googletalk ... | 19:53 |
| Ikarus | it will allow the HDD (eMMC) to suspend | 19:53 |
| jonne|reconnecte | i'll put it in pastebin | 19:54 |
| * satmd just noticed that rtcom does not use maemo's certificate manager but hardcoded /usr/lib/ssl/certs | 19:54 | |
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| jonne|reconnecte | http://pastebin.com/5Zwj4Naw -> this is my powertop output | 19:55 |
| Kegetys | of course the caching can help with the movie watching and no caching would likely result in an awful experience, but the point is that having the kernel cache big parts of movie files will mean your work files wont necessarily be in the cache anymore and need to be re-read | 19:55 |
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| jonne|reconnecte | so C4 is like 'idle' proc or something? | 19:55 |
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| Kegetys | since there is no way for the kernel to know that you are going to return to work after watching those movies (vista attempts to do that too though with superfetch) | 19:56 |
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| jonne|reconnecte | no, wait | 19:56 |
| valdyn | Kegetys: work files are typically not cached, but in ram | 19:56 |
| valdyn | Kegetys: they would have to be swapped out, not dropped | 19:56 |
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| valdyn | Kegetys: and when you swap out is tunable and beside that you can just not use swap | 19:57 |
| Kegetys | what are "work files" that are not cached? | 19:57 |
| Kegetys | and where are they cached if not in ram? | 19:57 |
| valdyn | Kegetys: yea, thats bad wording from me | 19:58 |
| valdyn | Kegetys: files that are loaded by the application | 19:58 |
| solrize | example 1) i open a browser (takes 10 seconds to read in all files/libs from hard disk), close it, and immediately re-open. the re-open takes 0.1 seconds because of the cache | 19:58 |
| valdyn | Kegetys: those are not "cached", but "malloced" | 19:58 |
| solrize | 2) i open browser, close it, do a kernel compile (takes 10 minutes), and re-open browser. now all the cached browser pages have been dropped, so it takes (nearly) 10 seconds again | 19:58 |
| Kegetys | if an app freads fileA, then another app reads fileB. how can the kernel know you are going to return to the app that read fileA a hour later and keep that file in the cache when fileB is being read right now? | 19:59 |
| valdyn | Kegetys: thats that file is read, its not cached | 19:59 |
| zash | you can do `echo 3 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches` | 19:59 |
| valdyn | Kegetys: its loaded into ram by the app, in storage collected with malloc, thats not the same as cache | 19:59 |
| Kegetys | uh... I'm talkign about the OS cache | 20:00 |
| Kegetys | talking | 20:00 |
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| valdyn | Kegetys: or as example, if I load a (huge) text document into my editor, then that file is *not* just cached, its loaded explicitely | 20:01 |
| Kegetys | if you had fileA in a ramdisk, reading fileB could not remove it from there. so therefore it could be beneficial in that case, however as said it is not typical | 20:01 |
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| solrize | it's extremely typical though | 20:08 |
| solrize | and even if the kernel really does know better, it's still worse :) | 20:08 |
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| solrize | i.e. say browser is in cache and browser is closed. compile kernel for 30 minutes, then re-open browser (10 seconds), elapsed time 30:10 | 20:09 |
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| solrize | versus: lock browser in ramdisk, so kernel compile takes 32 minutes due to having less available ram, then re-open browser (0.1 sec). elapsed time: 32:00.1, slower in total because kernel is "smart" | 20:10 |
| solrize | but really, second example is preferable from user point of view | 20:10 |
| solrize | half hour compile = go get lunch, 30 minutes and 32 minutes are the same thing | 20:10 |
| solrize | but 0.1 sec to open a browser vs 10 sec is a 100x slowdown | 20:10 |
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| Kegetys | smartest thing in that case would be to not close the browser though ;) | 20:11 |
| Tachikoma | andre__: sorry, as mentioned before, i was wondering about googletalk video between n800 and n900. I get some unsupported codec error on n800 and was wondering if that is supposed to be that way. | 20:11 |
| solrize | Kegetys, no i don't think so, its pages still get paged out | 20:11 |
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| solrize | anyway with the ssd the browser opens fast enough even when not cached :) hard disks almost seem intolerable | 20:12 |
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| Shapeshifter | mhh. google navigation is now available here as an android app. has anyone heard of an api? | 20:19 |
| Shapeshifter | like, europe | 20:20 |
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| Shapeshifter | oh and canada apparently | 20:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's not sold as an API service for the simple reason it's to promote android | 20:21 |
| Shapeshifter | imo that is by far the most awesome feature on android. Hope there's away to port it. | 20:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | yeah | 20:21 |
| Shapeshifter | I guessed :) | 20:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | it's brilliant imo. | 20:21 |
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| Mece | hello | 20:46 |
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| Mece | Echo... echo... cho... o... ... | 20:48 |
| GAN900 | Mece, shhhh, we're napping. | 20:49 |
| Mece | oh, sorry. I didn't realize. | 20:49 |
| * Mece walks around quietly | 20:49 | |
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| * MohammadAG changes into a ninja and kills Mece, silently | 20:53 | |
| * marmoute ears something | 20:54 | |
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| Mece | hee | 20:55 |
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| solrize | what does it do? is it like google maps? (re google navigation) | 21:05 |
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| * MohammadAG checks calendar | 21:13 | |
| MohammadAG | nope, it's a wednesday | 21:13 |
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| luke-jr | http://➽.ws/흑 <-- big USB | 21:16 |
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| frosty` | haha, how did you find that luke-jr? | 21:17 |
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| luke-jr | frosty`: someone posted it in another channel | 21:17 |
| solrize | lol | 21:17 |
| mece | anyone who know c around? | 21:18 |
| solrize | wtf? | 21:18 |
| solrize | mece yes i'm sure lots of ppl here know c ;) | 21:18 |
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| MohammadAG | yeah, I met it once, it shot me in the foot | 21:19 |
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| mece | MohammadAG, indeed. | 21:19 |
| frosty` | still recovering, MohammadAG? | 21:19 |
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| MohammadAG | frosty`, nope, I just threw it out the window | 21:21 |
| frosty` | heh | 21:22 |
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| solrize | mece did you have a question? | 21:31 |
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| mece | solarize, well I have a g_string_append(text, something) and I would like something to be " / ", I put just that there but it didn't work out. now I have gchar *spacer and spacer = " / " and then g_string_append(text, spacer) | 21:33 |
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| mece | solarize, at least it compiles... :) | 21:36 |
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| RST38h | Back. Finally. | 21:42 |
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| solrize | i don't know what g_string_append does, that sounds more like a maemo lib thing than a c question. but it sounds like you don't really understand C pointers? | 21:42 |
| solrize | http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/stable/glib-Strings.html | 21:42 |
| solrize | ok, it's a gnome func | 21:43 |
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| solrize | ok, gchar is a typedef for char | 21:43 |
| solrize | you should be able to say g_string_append(text, " / ") | 21:44 |
| solrize | where text is already a GString | 21:44 |
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| johnsq | Hi | 21:47 |
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| FauxFaux | One suspects reflashing would be easier had I not lost my usb cable. >.< | 21:53 |
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| MohammadAG | Syslogs, only present to fill your / | 22:00 |
| MohammadAG | Nokia-N900:/var/log# du -h | 22:00 |
| MohammadAG | 85.7M. | 22:00 |
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| BCMM_ | MohammadAG: what logs do you have? | 22:04 |
| BCMM_ | i have practically nothing there, and couldn't find my ssh logs | 22:04 |
| BCMM_ | (i will confess i was too lazy to look at teh config files and find out if it was actually logging and to where) | 22:04 |
| MohammadAG | you don't have syslogd installed | 22:04 |
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| mmarc__ | hi | 22:06 |
| mmarc__ | a strange error here: | 22:06 |
| mmarc__ | dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of maemo-core-runtime: | 22:06 |
| mmarc__ | maemo-core-runtime depends on sudo; however: | 22:06 |
| mmarc__ | Package sudo is not configured yet. | 22:06 |
| MohammadAG | SDK? | 22:06 |
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| MohammadAG | (and most probably on Ubuntu 10.04) | 22:07 |
| mmarc__ | Yes, I use Maemo SDK 5 installer on lucid. | 22:07 |
| mmarc__ | They got unscrewed?.. | 22:07 |
| MohammadAG | ~MaemoSDK | 22:08 |
| infobot | rumour has it, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation | 22:08 |
| mmarc__ | ? | 22:08 |
| MohammadAG | follow the 10.04 fix there | 22:08 |
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| MohammadAG | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution to be more precise | 22:09 |
| mmarc__ | do you mean echo "vm.mmap_min_addr = 0" >> /etc/sysctl.conf ? | 22:11 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 22:11 |
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| MohammadAG | Added it to the known issues | 22:12 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 22:12 |
| MohammadAG | that page needs a troubleshooting section | 22:12 |
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| mmarc__ | Sorry, I happen to bypass it because I've execued python installer | 22:12 |
| MohammadAG | Yeah, I know what you mean | 22:12 |
| MohammadAG | the scripts need updating | 22:13 |
| MohammadAG | and Ubuntu needs a kick in the arse | 22:13 |
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| MohammadAG | basically, it's not your fault | 22:13 |
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| Shapeshifter | solrize: it's like free guided navigation + streetview | 22:14 |
| Shapeshifter | solrize: which means augmented reality | 22:14 |
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| solrize | oh neat | 22:17 |
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| mmarc__ | MohammadAG, thank you | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG | np :) | 22:23 |
| MohammadAG | thanks the original post if you want | 22:24 |
| MohammadAG | it's not my method :) | 22:24 |
| MohammadAG | this one http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=636394&postcount=8 | 22:24 |
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| arch_bb | ~moo | 22:50 |
| * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass | 22:50 | |
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| frosty` | hah | 22:50 |
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| Mece_ | 'ello ello | 22:52 |
| Mece_ | do you think this is an ok way to display music files in filemanager: http://twitpic.com/1vc5k0/full | 22:53 |
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| frosty` | Mece_: can you make the second line a smaller font? | 22:54 |
| Mece_ | not really. | 22:56 |
| mmarc__ | can we put files transparently to scratchbox from the host system? | 22:56 |
| Mece_ | frosty, well possibly, but that's a totally different matter. | 22:56 |
| Mece_ | err.. yes | 22:57 |
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| Mece_ | mmarc_ do you mean access and manipulate them from host? | 22:57 |
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| mmarc__ | Mece_: yeah, I've got a source code tar ball to take into scratchbox for compilation, | 22:58 |
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| Mece_ | mmarc_, /scratchbox/users/username/home/username/ replace username with, you guessed it, your username. | 22:59 |
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| mmarc__ | Mece_: cool, thanks! It is now compiling... | 23:05 |
| mmarc__ | So, what about plain OpenGL apps? Do they work out-of-box on maemo? | 23:05 |
| mmarc__ | No GTK, as far as I know | 23:05 |
| noobmonk3y | Evvvvvvvvening alls | 23:06 |
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| mmarc__ | Is that correct, that porting OpenGL 2.0 apps to OpenGL ES is not neccessary? | 23:08 |
| lcuk | mmarc__, well since opengles requires fragment shaders | 23:09 |
| lcuk | if your original gl2 code uses exclusively fragment shaders and the specific subset that gles caters for you are good to go | 23:09 |
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| mmarc__ | lcuk: well, I've got OpenGL 1.1-compatible code, I think. No shaders at all. | 23:10 |
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| lcuk | so makr your own mind up :) | 23:11 |
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| jacekowski | mmarc__: there are things that opengl have and gles don't | 23:12 |
| mmarc__ | lcuk: I'm not very familiar with it, unfortunately, but there is a normal thing to expect backward compatibility. Your answer sounds so tricky, that it makes me to think ES is not compatible with 1.1/2.0 at all! | 23:12 |
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| jacekowski | mmarc__: just try to compile it | 23:13 |
| jacekowski | mmarc__: it isn't | 23:13 |
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| jacekowski | mmarc__: GLES is a subset of GL | 23:13 |
| mmarc__ | oh, i see... ok, let try! :) | 23:13 |
| lcuk | mmarc__, where did you hear backwards compatability was normal? | 23:13 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: everybody seems to pretend that it is | 23:13 |
| mmarc__ | yeah =) | 23:13 |
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| jacekowski | amd and intel was waiting 30 years to add 8 registers to cpus | 23:14 |
| Macer | BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso30+0m5) built-in shell (ash) | 23:14 |
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| jacekowski | and they had to add 32 more bits as well | 23:14 |
| Macer | legal? | 23:14 |
| Macer | heh | 23:14 |
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| Mece | crap. | 23:18 |
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| Mece | my phone rebooted. perhaps my new filemanager isn't that stable. | 23:19 |
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| lucent | I've had a spurious reboot with PR1.2 also | 23:19 |
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| lucent | I think it was after installing a lot of new software and not rebooting | 23:20 |
| Mece | lucent. well this was when I opened filemanager and scrolled down fast right after the list became visible. | 23:21 |
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| Mece | hmm. can't seem to recrete. | 23:22 |
| Mece | s/recrete/recreate/ | 23:22 |
| infobot | Mece meant: hmm. can't seem to recreate. | 23:22 |
| Mece | anyone wanna try the modified filemanager? | 23:23 |
| lucent | ah. I'm signed into IRC today searching for more information about the Maemo port of KeePassX | 23:23 |
| lucent | it's become unusable with the latest update | 23:24 |
| lucent | glad the update happened, but the UI is just garbage | 23:24 |
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| Mece | actually it's the library that the filemanager and file chooser uses that is modified. | 23:24 |
| xDaReaperx | Hi | 23:24 |
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| Aari | hello boys | 23:24 |
| xDaReaperx | anyone tried out USB host mode yet ? | 23:25 |
| MohammadAG | ... | 23:25 |
| Mece | oh well. I'm out. tataa. | 23:25 |
| Aari | the N900 dont have enough power for usb hosting | 23:25 |
| lucent | xDaReaperx: I suspect that's a common question here | 23:25 |
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| Mece | MohammadAG LOL | 23:25 |
| xDaReaperx | oh lol | 23:25 |
| xDaReaperx | so does it actually work ? | 23:26 |
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| lucent | I think it was premature to have maemo.org post an article saying that it "works" | 23:26 |
| Mece | MohammadAG, what have you hosted on your usb? | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | lucent: yes. | 23:26 |
| Aari | it dont work | 23:26 |
| xDaReaperx | hmm ok | 23:26 |
| Mece | aari is wrong. | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Aari: The n900 has 200mA | 23:26 |
| xDaReaperx | i didn't find the article though even after i googled | 23:26 |
| Aari | so?? | 23:26 |
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| xDaReaperx | so it makes sense | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Aari: That is quite enough power for most keyboards, mice, some flash drives. | 23:26 |
| SpeedEvil | And you can plug it into a hub. | 23:27 |
| SpeedEvil | xDaReaperx: It's really not ready yet. | 23:27 |
| xDaReaperx | ok | 23:27 |
| Mece | ok really gonna go now though. | 23:27 |
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| MohammadAG | Mece, a javelin | 23:27 |
| SpeedEvil | We're at the 'works for some people, not for others, with some peripherals, not others' stage. | 23:27 |
| MohammadAG | and I'm not afraid to use it | 23:27 |
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| Aari | yea but you have to fuck around with convertor cables and all that shit | 23:28 |
| lucent | SpeedEvil: note, that state is where rockbox devs exist perpetually. | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | which is quite annoying | 23:28 |
| SpeedEvil | lucent: It's getting there - there is progress being made. | 23:29 |
| lucent | it's good work ^_^ | 23:29 |
| * SpeedEvil is also wondering how to optimise mp3 playback time. | 23:29 | |
| lucent | SpeedEvil: the 50kusd Nokia competition does not apply to USB host mode in a novel application, does it? | 23:30 |
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| lucent | would be nifty! | 23:30 |
| SpeedEvil | lucent: The closing date is too close | 23:30 |
| SpeedEvil | It's unlikely to be got working by that time | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | lucent, pretty doubtful | 23:30 |
| SpeedEvil | it's a couple of days time isn't it? | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, it's a hack that screws over certs | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | even if we got it to work | 23:30 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: that too, perhaps. | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | I doubt we're entitled to enter | 23:31 |
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| lucent | oh hai it is the 12th of june deadline, too bad | 23:31 |
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| Aari | why is everybody getting a h4 | 23:31 |
| Aari | a | 23:31 |
| SpeedEvil | a what? | 23:31 |
| Aari | why is everybody getting a hardon over usb host? | 23:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Aari: It's useful for some people. | 23:31 |
| * lucent facepalms | 23:31 | |
| SpeedEvil | If you don't find it so, simply ignore it. | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG | Aari, it's the most useful feature for me | 23:32 |
| Aari | but is it practical? | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG | today I tried it out and copied a 2GB file over to a flash for a mate | 23:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Aari: You take a F-F adaptor. You take the stock cable. You plug a USB device in. It just works. | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG | oh and guess what, it didn't ra** my battery - much | 23:32 |
| SpeedEvil | (ideally) | 23:32 |
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| Aari | so adaptor is necessary then? | 23:33 |
| Kegetys | does it (or would it) work with an OTG cable? | 23:33 |
| SpeedEvil | The F-F adaptor is needed. But this is $3 from ebay | 23:33 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 23:33 |
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| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, 1.50 shipped! | 23:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - the goal is to get it working with the stock cable. | 23:33 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: oh - sorry. :) | 23:33 |
| Kegetys | ok... well I have both ;) | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 23:33 |
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| noobmonk3y | darn laptop gave up the ghost on me | 23:34 |
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| lucent | ugh, headache. I have my passwords stored in keepassx on my N900, since updating keepassx it does not have a usable UI, to log in to bug tracker and submit bug ticket for that I need password from keepassx | 23:34 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 23:34 |
| Aari | the thing is my external Western Digital 500GB drive has a mini usb not micro, how the hell will it work then? | 23:34 |
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| noobmonk3y | Aari, Mini to micro usb converter? | 23:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Aari: You take the normal cable for the n900. PLug that into a F-F adaptor. Plug the cable you normally use to plug in your hard drive to your computer to the adaptor. Job done. | 23:35 |
| Aari | yea and loss of speed with convertor | 23:35 |
| SpeedEvil | No loss of speed. | 23:35 |
| lcuk | Aari, then make a custom cable | 23:35 |
| Aari | no? | 23:35 |
| vldcnst | It's digital. | 23:35 |
| lcuk | not exactly a roadblock | 23:36 |
| lcuk | monster gold plated usb cables | 23:36 |
| lcuk | :D | 23:36 |
| lucent | use gold plated contacts for best performance | 23:36 |
| greenfly | no, that's why you need the gold plated cables :) | 23:36 |
| lucent | agh! beat me to it | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 23:36 |
| greenfly | bah me too | 23:36 |
| Aari | this would be freaking awesome.....so is it now working properly? | 23:36 |
| MohammadAG | ~ping | 23:36 |
| infobot | ~pong | 23:36 |
| * lcuk types using a keyboard with gold plated cables | 23:36 | |
| Kegetys | and make sure to plug the f-f adaptor the right way so the arrow goes from the hard drive to the n900 | 23:36 |
| greenfly | but you want sharper 1s and rounder 0s, without gold you don't get that | 23:36 |
| lcuk | the speed and accuracy shines through :D | 23:36 |
| frosty` | haha lcuk | 23:36 |
| vldcnst | ... | 23:36 |
| BCMM_ | there are microusb male to usb female adaptors | 23:36 |
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| BCMM_ | presumably they would let you plug things in without a load of extra cable | 23:37 |
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| Aari | this is fucking exciting this usb host shit | 23:37 |
| BCMM_ | lcuk: i actually have a gold-plated usb cable - was cheapest easilly available at the time | 23:37 |
| lcuk | would platinum be faster than gold? | 23:37 |
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| lucent | greenfly: I can definitely tell the difference, the gold plated connection allows a much tighter datastage in the upper transfer rates | 23:37 |
| xDaReaperx | wont all of this eat up the battery ? | 23:37 |
| MohammadAG | ~ping | 23:37 |
| lcuk | and squarer oneses | 23:37 |
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| infobot | ~pong | 23:37 |
| BCMM_ | (gold plating costs practically nothing) | 23:37 |
| MohammadAG | that's better | 23:38 |
| lcuk | BCMM_, dont tell my missus | 23:38 |
| MohammadAG | xDaReaperx, not a lot, as much as 3G (C) SpeedEvil | 23:38 |
| lcuk | she would want gold plated everything | 23:38 |
| BCMM_ | heh | 23:38 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 23:38 |
| greenfly | lucent: sweeeeet, do your 128kbps MP3s sound better after they are transferred over it? | 23:38 |
| BCMM_ | lcuk: was buying stuff from a catalog that actually sells cheap components, and they charged the same for stainless steel and gold-plated stainless steel crocodile clips | 23:39 |
| BCMM_ | (both of which were about 50p) | 23:39 |
| Kegetys | well the gold plating is useful, it just doesnt make the signal any better | 23:39 |
| vldcnst | Aari: this is what you need: http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/3483/20100609004c.jpg | 23:39 |
| lcuk | i only buy cuban crocodile clips | 23:39 |
| lucent | greenfly: yes, but I think that has more to do with the lepoard wood isolation disks I've glued to my laptop to minimize rotational transfer from the harddisk onto the signal path | 23:39 |
| BCMM_ | the amount of gold used is negligible - a few atoms thick maybe? | 23:40 |
| * lucent wins, takes a bow | 23:40 | |
| greenfly | hahaha | 23:40 |
| SpeedEvil | xDaReaperx: It uses around - for a typical keyboard of the order of 15% of battery per hour. | 23:40 |
| Kegetys | the purpose is to prevent oxidisation(spelling?) as far as I know | 23:40 |
| BCMM_ | yeah, it doesn't corrode | 23:40 |
| xDaReaperx | hmm 15 % is okay | 23:40 |
| BCMM_ | gold is very conductive, but that doesn't matter if it's just teh connectors | 23:40 |
| lcuk | BCMM_, you dont know what a crocodile clip is till you have had one hand pressed in a forge by nubile amazonian virgin warriors | 23:40 |
| MohammadAG | 15-20%, 2.3GB file, 20 minutes to copy | 23:40 |
| BCMM_ | now, a cable made of braided gold would probably actually allow longer USB cables than copper | 23:41 |
| BCMM_ | but that would actually cost money | 23:41 |
| lcuk | and actually be poor | 23:41 |
| vldcnst | BCMM_: it does actually, because thats where you have losses, at the connectors | 23:41 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 23:41 |
| lcuk | since gold isnt very strong | 23:41 |
| dima202 | is there a voltage controller on that card? | 23:41 |
| MohammadAG | make an alloy | 23:41 |
| BCMM_ | lcuk: i shoulda got gold-plated actually - i actually did corrode a crocodile clip when i was a kid | 23:41 |
| Kegetys | afaik. usb cable has a limit on the cable lengths due to some timing issues as well, so just a better cable doesnt necessarily help | 23:41 |
| Aari | so it takes that long to copy files then? fuck that's too long man! | 23:41 |
| BCMM_ | by passing current through salt water | 23:41 |
| mmarc__ | E: Couldn't find package libgles2-sgx-img-dev | 23:41 |
| MohammadAG | Aari, it's powered using the N900 itself, and it's a damn 2GB file | 23:42 |
| mmarc__ | - hm where is it?.. | 23:42 |
| MohammadAG | mmarc__, added the Nokia binaries link? | 23:42 |
| Aari | yea but still | 23:42 |
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| BCMM_ | hmm | 23:42 |
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| BCMM_ | wonder if the gold-plating wears off regularly-used connectors? | 23:42 |
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| BCMM_ | i mean, it's very thin and gold is quite soft | 23:42 |
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| MohammadAG | Aari, I'm sure a self powered hub would allow better speeds | 23:43 |
| MohammadAG | plus I was using scp (over localhost) | 23:43 |
| MohammadAG | to see progress | 23:43 |
| Aari | gold plated aint worth the shit man, trust me | 23:43 |
| lcuk | gold plated toilet roll is worth quite a lot actually | 23:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | hub should not actually affect speed at all | 23:44 |
| lucent | I think we're being trolled at this point, Gentlemen. | 23:44 |
| lcuk | nice soft gold, the flecks dont hurt your skin | 23:44 |
| Aari | being trolled? | 23:44 |
| lcuk | lucent, trolling is a art | 23:44 |
| BCMM_ | gold plating is worthwhile in some specific situations | 23:44 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, well, doesn't drawing both data + power lower speeds? | 23:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: no, not at all | 23:44 |
| BCMM_ | like environments taht cause rapid corrosion, or selling overpriced crap to audiophiles | 23:44 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: completely seperate wires. | 23:44 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, well, I guess it applies to optical devices only | 23:45 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: the change is just - for example - the same as going from min->max brightness | 23:45 |
| MohammadAG | (or devices that spin up) | 23:45 |
| lucent | gold plating is used most famously on the contacts for Automobile "airbag" sensors | 23:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Sorry - not following. | 23:45 |
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| lucent | extreme hazard applications | 23:46 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, my HDD gets higher speeds when connected to AC power | 23:46 |
| lcuk | of christ lucent shush, they will start stealing car steering wheels next | 23:46 |
| Aari | overall i see some benefits to usb hosting but theres too much fucking around right now | 23:46 |
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| lcuk | MohammadAG, then you have specific technology to deal | 23:46 |
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| lcuk | most drives arent variable speed afaik? | 23:47 |
| lcuk | this aint no cd burner | 23:47 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, right, but if it's powered using the laptop only it is slower | 23:47 |
| lcuk | sure | 23:47 |
| lucent | lcuk: you know that platinum is being stolen from catalytic converters on vehicles? vehicle runs fine one day, park it in shady neighborhood, suddenly it is missing an exhaust system and runs poorly the next day | 23:47 |
| mmarc__ | MohammadAG: no, it's in place: deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/4bc37c7c77ebe90177c050 nokia-binaries | 23:47 |
| lcuk | lucent, thats because theres a big tonne of the stuff in a large honeycomb structure | 23:48 |
| lcuk | but most people saying "omg the cat has been stolen" | 23:48 |
| lcuk | probably just lost it on the i96 | 23:48 |
| lucent | yep. unlikley that steering column would be stolen to recover so little gold | 23:48 |
| MohammadAG | mmarc__, you are NOT allowed to post that | 23:48 |
| mmarc__ | pard me? | 23:48 |
| MohammadAG | you accepted an agreement | 23:48 |
| MohammadAG | the "Token" is for personal use only and may not be further distributed or disclosed | 23:48 |
| mmarc__ | I'm not posting my token, certainly :) | 23:49 |
| MohammadAG | from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php | 23:49 |
| BCMM_ | dunno about the rest of the world, but in the UK people steal copper | 23:49 |
| MohammadAG | that's a token | 23:49 |
| mmarc__ | no, my token is different, I've changed it | 23:49 |
| lcuk | BCMM_, yeah of course | 23:49 |
| BCMM_ | occasionally someone electrocutes themselves trying to take copper from railway power lines | 23:49 |
| lcuk | at the sorts of levels these things become rewarding they are done | 23:49 |
| lucent | mmarc__: just don' | 23:49 |
| lucent | just don't do it | 23:49 |
| MohammadAG | mmarc__, it's still a token | 23:49 |
| lucent | you obviously understand what you're doing by posting that here | 23:49 |
| lucent | so stop and take a breather, read that agreement again | 23:49 |
| mmarc__ | ugh | 23:50 |
| lucent | don't make trouble for us | 23:50 |
| MohammadAG | I doubt Nokia will check logs anyways | 23:50 |
| * lcuk looks over at however many .fi people are on the chan list | 23:51 | |
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| lcuk | it was an accident :P | 23:52 |
| mmarc__ | so, binaries repository is in list, but "E: Couldn't find package opengles-sgx-img-common-dev" | 23:52 |
| mmarc__ | that's strange | 23:52 |
| lucent | in list and you apt-get update ? | 23:52 |
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| mmarc__ | sure! many times | 23:53 |
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| lcuk | mmarc__, what does apt-cache search openglex come up with | 23:53 |
| lcuk | opengles * | 23:53 |
| MohammadAG | [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > apt-cache search opengles-sgx-img-common-dev | 23:53 |
| MohammadAG | opengles-sgx-img-common-dev - PowerVR SGX support development files | 23:53 |
| mmarc__ | once again "fakeroot apt-get update" and nothing changes... | 23:53 |
| mmarc__ | hmm, no fakeroot? | 23:53 |
| mmarc__ | Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/.../nokia-binaries Packages | 23:54 |
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| mmarc__ | "apt-cache search opengles-sgx-img-common-dev" returns nothing for me :( | 23:55 |
| lcuk | i didnt ask you to try that | 23:55 |
| * mmarc__ has a feeling this anger is for nothing - I've just tried a search too | 23:57 | |
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| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: ohlol. one day I don't look and the usb host mode threads go up in flames ^^ | 23:59 |
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| mmarc__ | here you go the maemo forum where the same token is written: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/re-erro_nokia_binaries/ | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: we got much nicer pubs now :-D | 23:59 |
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