IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-06-08

summeli would still pay someone to make my theme-mockup real :P00:00
zashSpeedEvil: but then they complain about it beeing beta hardware instead00:00
noctulegot a link on that mockup? ;)00:00
DuckbootC'Mon - Gimme som response00:00
SpeedEvilzash: yes.00:00
summelsure one second00:00
microlithI know, we need to cripple it and limit the functionality. Then it'll be all slick and cool.00:00
SpeedEvilzash: neo1973 was somewhat beta hardware. But it was quite functional beta hardware with maybe 4 or 5 minor fixes that were easy to put into production.00:01 down?00:01
MohammadAG51nvm, it connected00:01
DuckbootMohammadAG51: Mmm00:01
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DuckbootMohammadAG51: css and gfx are atleast down00:01
MohammadAG51taking ages to load00:01
Nomasummel: what's the name of that theme?00:01
* MohammadAG51 pings X-Fade 00:01
summelNoma: its just a mockup atm :/00:01
noctulesummel: looks nice00:02
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summelbut as i said... i would pay someone to make it real :D00:02
summelthx ^^00:02
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Nomawell go do graphics instead of ircing?:D00:02
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noctuleWhat would you have the rss + calendar widgets like?00:02
summeli can do graphics but i dont know how to make themes for maemo :/00:02
summeland that theme maker thingy app is strange and did not really work00:02
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summelmaybe because it is written in java :P00:02
lbtfiferboy: you reading about shopper?00:02
* Duckboot shudders - Java?00:03
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summelNoma: well... i want transparency shadows and the rest mostly black & white... and helvetica :D00:03
noctulesummel: couldn't charge you for making it, but happily accepts donations lol00:03
summelnoctule: you can make themes? :D00:03
Nomasummel: windows mobile 7?:D00:03
noctulesummel: haven't messed with theming the 900 yet, themed loads of stuff using pngs in the past00:04
noctuleboredom + insomnia == new stuff00:04
summeli can make the css and hhtml for a conversation theme :)00:04
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fiferboylbt: Sorry, just heading out (ironically to do some shopping)00:05
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fiferboylbt: Drop me an email or we can chat tomorrow?00:05
lbtsure - I'm around ... poke your kid for me ;)00:05
fiferboylbt: I have company from Wales in town00:05
noctulesummel: got a few things on atm, but will happily give it a go if someone hasn't sorted it by then00:05
lbtthose welsh get about ...00:06
tuliobaarsdo you just talk about the n900?00:06
summelyay ;) i would be happy to donate then00:06
DuckbootMohammadAG51: Did you get any response from X-Fade?00:06
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tuliobaarsthis device is ridiculous like windows Vista00:06
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summelalso i would love a nice oxygen/kde4 and a good/working lcars theme xD00:06
MohammadAG51Duckboot, if he pongs it'll be here :)00:06
summeltuliobaars: oO00:06
tuliobaarsoO what?00:06
DuckbootMohammadAG51: ;-P00:06
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summelwhy would you say that?00:06
DuckbootWe have a troll in the building00:07
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tuliobaarscause when they released n900, all of you forget about the classic and original NIT's (N810 and N800, maybe 770)00:08
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tuliobaarsi'm not a troll00:08
lbttuliobaars: not true00:08
tuliobaarsgood to hear that00:08
lbtbut I can understand it feels like it :)00:08
summeltuliobaars: well when vista was released most people were still using XP so n900 is in no way like vista :P00:08
lbttuliobaars:  Mer was supposed to help a lot on that front.00:09
tuliobaarsi feel me alone with my N8x0 projects00:09
tuliobaarsi was kidding00:09
tuliobaarsjust to atract atention00:09
bitphoenixxp=good, vista=bad, n900!=bad00:09
lbthey, you'll make me feel guilty... I just released my app for N900 only :(00:09
lbtbitphoenix: you missed a ! after xp00:10
tuliobaarsxp=good but ugly00:10
tuliobaarsseven= good and pretty00:10
tuliobaarsat least 20apps per week are launched for N900, but for Diavlo, just200:10
tuliobaarsi'm really mad about that00:11
tuliobaarsthe n900 isn't a bad device00:11
tuliobaarsjust think about it00:11
bitphoenixi didn't say it is bad00:11
tuliobaarsthanks for the atention, pls, continue yuor conversation00:11
tuliobaarsi know00:11
Kegetyswhat kind of apps are you looking for?00:11
Duckboottuliobaars: ;-P00:11
tuliobaarsi'm saying00:11
summelisnt diablo a bit older then fremantle?00:12
tuliobaarslets make it newer!00:12
summelinstall meego00:12
KegetysN8x0 is already pretty old and there's alot of apps for it00:12
lbttuliobaars: do you know how many Diablo users came to help make fremantle run on the N8x0s?00:12
DuckbootAnyone got a phonenumber to someone with root-access to the servers at
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tuliobaarssomeone that want to talk, develop, help, and talk about that question, help for projects:Skype: tulio.baars.meira00:13
tuliobaarsi will be glad helping in something00:13
sECuREi want to use jabber with SSL and proper certificate checking. i installed the cacert root certificate to /etc/ssl/certs and ran c_rehash, then rebooted the n900. it still says "network error" for this account. where can i find the whole message?00:13
tuliobaarsjust 10minute i'm getting back00:13
lbttuliobaars: right now I suggest you focus on MeeGo for N8x000:13
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DuckbootMohammadAG51/DocScrutinizer51: Is the number of the day 51?00:16
muellisECuRE:  whenever you find a working method, please tell me.00:16
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muellisECuRE: you can run  GABBLE_PERSIST=1 GABBLE_DEBUG=1 LM_DEBUG=net /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-gabble00:18
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sECuREmuelli: hm, that also just says "SSL certificate verification failed"00:20
sECuREi also put it in /etc/certs/common-ca, but that didn’t help either00:20
sECuREah, hang on, got the wrong cert file00:21
Duckbootcertificates are a pain.00:21
muellisECuRE: I don't think that OpenSSL installation repects any of those paths. That's why the Certificate Manager is there. But it doesn't work for me eith.00:21
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muellibut as I've said sECuRE. whenever you found smth working, please tell me.00:22
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sECuREwhich process is it that does the jabber?00:31
noctulew00t_: Have you got a formal to-do list on portrait-keyboard?00:31
jacekowskisECuRE: telepathy00:31
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sECuREtelepathy is a framework, not a specific process running on my phone, right?00:32
sECuREso which process is it?00:32
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jacekowskisECuRE: telepathy00:37
sECuREps | grep telepathy does not show a process named only telepathy00:38
sECuREi have telepathy-{ring,sofiasip,gabble}00:38
sECuREi guess it’s (mainly?) gabble?00:38
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tuliobaarslbt: do you have skype:00:47
lbtyes but I rarely use it00:48
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tuliobaarscould you give it to me? we can start a project, Kroll(Dmitriy Chirva) is already in00:48
tuliobaarsgive your skype adreess00:49
lbtI don't use it for that kind of thing :)00:49
lbtirc works fine for OSS dev00:49
lbtis this for N8x0 / meego ?00:50
DuckbootI use IRC all the time at work, for communicating with customers - Fast debugging.00:50
crashanddieDuckboot: lucky guy, IRC was locked out for most of my customers00:51
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pupnikskype is better cause i can click on it00:52
Duckbootcrashanddie: We have lots of really tecchie-customers, so they love IRC.00:52
tuliobaarsno way to fremantle for n810??? even an hacked version00:52
* pupnik flails00:52
crashanddieDuckboot: yeah, my customers were more in bunkers and such :)00:52
crashanddiebtw, if anyone ever has to do a brainstorm session with army or marines tech division, and nobody is saying anything, get the big cheese out of the room. They won't say a word if a superior officer is present.00:53
Duckbootcrashanddie: Hahaha00:55
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Shapeshifteryou might wanna dismantle that army.00:57
Shapeshiftersome bucks saved.00:57
Shapeshifterguy on the right has an n900
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ShadowJKand you tricked me into clicking that01:02
tuliobaarsi'm goin' to say why maemo doesn't have much apps01:03
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ShadowJKAmusingly the other platforms don't have the apps I need D:01:04
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: any news? I need the device more than ever, as it seems I'm on my own in implementing hostmode :-/01:05
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pupniknhahah Shapeshifter01:08
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: what do you need?01:08
DocScrutinizerdevel device01:09
DocScrutinizerwith working power button01:09
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crashanddiedevel device?01:10
crashanddieas in the prototype?01:10
crashanddieor just an n900 device you can use for devel?01:10
crashanddieI know01:10
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crashanddiewondered if I could help remotely01:11
DocScrutinizerGAN900 poked qgil, seems it's moving01:11
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, cool.01:11
DocScrutinizerGAN900: cool? what?01:12
crashanddie"be cool."01:12
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, glad to hear it's moving. :P01:16
GAN900DocScrutinizer, ah, sorry.01:17
GAN900DocScrutinizer, misread01:17
GAN900I though you said YOU poked qgil01:17
GAN900I haven't heard anything yet.01:17
Shapeshifterjust proving a point for the n900: (ssh -X'ing onto my desktop, running chromium browsing grooveshark, having it play to my normal speakers) ;)01:19
Shapeshifterversatility ftw01:19
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konfoodoesn't look like a complete list there, or am i missing something? (developer device program)01:24
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DocScrutinizer51crashanddie: so probably a MP device is more adequate than a prototype that might behave differently wrt USB and charging etc01:32
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: obviously not my day. Every second word I write seems to be lost in a mysterious black hole01:38
pupnikthat is time01:39
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tuliobaarsSDK. Do you have? Yes. Where? Google it. I'm downloading for at least 1 month the sdk and it is still on 20%, and i have an 3MB intrent connection01:42
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noctulenight all01:43
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MohammadAGthe SDK is a 700MBs-ish download01:43
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* SpeedEvil gets online using the phone as the modem for the first time.01:47
haltdefnot attempted that yet01:48
SpeedEvilI've also found wackily that in addition to holding the phone in strange way s to get a sinal - propped up on the stand on my computer desk works too01:48
MohammadAGsomeone kick in the face01:48
SpeedEvilI think someone already has.01:49
MohammadAGk, in the bottom then :)01:49
SpeedEvilI assume you mean WRT it being randomly lossy?01:49
MohammadAGor completely down01:49
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MohammadAG~lart maemo.org02:04
* infobot puts into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of's hair of02:04
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th3hate~slap MohammadAG02:08
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* infobot slaps MohammadAG, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!02:08
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* SpeedEvil stabs N900evil.02:12
* SpeedEvil sighs.02:12
* DocScrutinizer stabs SpeedEvil02:12
SpeedEvilI'm now connected through the n900 3G - through this computer. And the n900 just autoconnected to my wifi, and logged in.02:13
SpeedEvilSo, it has phone, usbnet, and wifi interfaces up.02:13
SpeedEvilWhy the hell won't it do this when I want it to.02:14
DocScrutinizerbeware of feedback loops :-P02:14
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* MohammadAG wonders what to do, other than ranting about being down when you need it02:15
DocScrutinizerand your wifi is connected to the internet via your PC and your N900? X-D02:15
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: tethering?02:17
SpeedEvil1I want to be able to simply use my n900 as a socks proxy02:17
DocScrutinizerso you actually deprived the maemo system from access to modem :-)02:17
SpeedEvil1with sshd02:17
tuliobaarsno, i hope not02:17
tuliobaarsbut if you make it with SSh will be fine02:18
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SpeedEvil1so use it over wifi as a socks proxy over the internet02:18
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tuliobaarsprpxy noo02:18
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil1: I wonder what a ifconfig on N900 would say ATM02:19
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DocScrutinizerand of course what route looks like02:19
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SpeedEvil1I diddn't check route02:20
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil1: if you used tethering via USB, then probably the modem shouldn't show up as network device on N90002:20
SpeedEvil1possibly, yes02:20
MohammadAGLOL just died completely now02:21
MohammadAGwhich package is dig in?02:21
DocScrutinizerhmm, phonet0 UP PTP02:21
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alteregoMohammadAG: uploading 0.2 now if yer interested.02:26 just suffering from a borked CSS as it seems02:26
DocScrutinizeralso some bug in JS, like02:27
DocScrutinizerFehler: ReferenceError: Can't find variable: jQuery02:27
alteregoDocScrutinizer: I think it's more likely something to do with their static caching ..02:27
alteregoDamnit, can't upload :(02:27
MohammadAGit's back!02:27
MohammadAGalterego, you can, use dput02:28
lostinmirkwoodHave anyone here used Nokia's Remote Device Access with n900?02:28
alteregoMohammadAG: don't have it set up.02:28
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MohammadAGalterego, then get off your arse and set it up :P02:28
alteregolostinmirkwood: I don't think anyone here has used Nokias RDA at all :P02:28
alteregoMohammadAG: how?!02:28
* MohammadAG has, haha02:28
MohammadAGalterego, got linux installed or something?02:28
MohammadAGor scratchbox (XD)02:29
MohammadAGor both02:29
alteregoOkay, hang on ..02:29
* alterego done02:29
alteregoGot ubuntu 10.04 :P02:29
lostinmirkwood<alterego>, too bad seems that their installer for maemo has a bit of a bug.02:29
MohammadAGsince scratchbox is "brainfucked" (C) DocScrutinizer02:29
alteregoI use madde ..02:29
GAN900OK, so I have a question to put to those of you who have actually been involved in other opensource projects.02:29
MohammadAGyou'll need to do it once in scratchbox and once outside it (unless you're only using it inside.... oh)02:29
MohammadAGalterego, got something like terminal in that thing?02:30
GAN900How does the burnout rate in Maemo compare?02:30
alteregoMohammadAG: I think I'll justwait until is back P02:30
MohammadAGalterego, apt-get install dput02:30
alteregoDo you want the latest package?02:30
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MohammadAGme? nah, I'll probably be tempted to upload it02:30
alteregoHeh02:30 is back btw02:31
alteregoWell, you can't without the source :P02:31
MohammadAGnon-free exists for a reason02:31 is still being crap for me ..02:31
MohammadAGI can fake the .changes file02:31
MohammadAGgot many templates for that02:31
alteregocurses ..02:31
MohammadAGfakeroot apt-get install dput02:32
MohammadAGnano /etc/, add your username to the specific firld02:32
alteregoWhat kind of authentication does it use?02:32
MohammadAGssh-keygen -t rsa (keep hitting enter)02:32
MohammadAGssh, it uses the public key02:33
alteregoAh, right.02:33
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MohammadAGcat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub02:33
MohammadAGcopy the crap there into your garage profile02:34
MohammadAGand you're done02:34
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alteregoYeah, already done all of that before.02:35
DocScrutinizererr, take care of the user@engine tail02:35
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MohammadAGalterego, then just do a dput -f fremantle-extras-builder file_source.changes02:36
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alteregoWell, I don't know my key, and I can't load ..02:36
MohammadAGwhat key02:37
MohammadAGthat's on garage.maemo.org02:37
alteregoMy pub key02:37
MohammadAGcat it02:37
MohammadAGcat ~/.ssh/rsa_id.pub02:37
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alteregoI've already setup a key on garage, my problem is, I don't know where it is, so I'd have to do a new one, but I can't because I can't access ..02:38
MohammadAGdefine the key in
MohammadAGalterego, garage never went down :)02:38
MohammadAGand you don't need a key02:38
MohammadAGyou provide the key on garage02:38
alteregoIf garage isn't down, then why is the assistant?02:38
MohammadAGcause it uses the theme?02:38
alteregoIt's under g.m.o?02:38
alteregoOh, ghey ..02:39
MohammadAGbut doesn't use the theme/images from maemo.org02:39
alteregoWho's been pissing around with themes then?!02:39
* MohammadAG points at DocScrutinizer 02:39
DocScrutinizersee above: <DocScrutinizer> just suffering from a borked CSS as it seems02:39
* alterego shakes his head at DocScrutinizer :P02:39
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MohammadAGhuh, weird02:41
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MohammadAGmy Nokia Messaging account got removed02:41
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MohammadAGand when I added it, it showed me a new TS02:42
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MohammadAGhey lcuk02:42
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lcukheya MohammadAG02:42
* lcuk just did something worrying02:42
DocScrutinizerlcuk: o/02:42
lcukhiya DocScrutinizer02:42
MohammadAG<alterego> Who's been pissing around with themes then?!02:42
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MohammadAGthere's your answer * lcuk just did something worrying02:42
GAN900No input?02:43
lcukjust something ive wanted to do for a while02:43
DocScrutinizerGAN900: didn't understand the question02:43
MohammadAGrm -rf'd root?02:43
lcuki mapped and visualised when im talking in which irc channels02:43
MohammadAGor erased /dev/mtd0... oh02:43
lcuk:D lol02:44
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MohammadAGalterego, oh and use https, it works better, for some reason02:44
GAN900DocScrutinizer, well, we seem to have an above average burnout rate for people in this community.02:44
GAN900Compared to my perception of other open source communities02:44
DocScrutinizerwouldn't be surprised02:44
GAN900But since I've never actually contributed to other open source projects, I dunno whether that's true.02:45
lcukMohammadAG, you didnt remind me about time02:45
MohammadAGlcuk, I was just checking through logs02:46
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MohammadAG(no seriously, I was :P)02:46
GAN900It's something I think Nokia is usually responsible for and it's something MeeGo isn't doing a good job of addressing.02:47
MohammadAGfound it!02:48
MohammadAGlcukif i come back, someone remind me about "time"02:48
DocScrutinizerGAN900: ack. It's the many little obstacles that drive you mad02:48
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jcrawforevening everyone02:48
lcukso how do you remove the obsticles02:48
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GAN900DocScrutinizer, I've hit severe burnout twice.02:48
jcrawfordamn left IRC on at work lol02:49
* lcuk only hits burnout after a particularly strong curry02:49
GAN900lcuk, beat the shit out of the managers at Nokia and fire everybody in MeeGo Devices from the S60 division.02:49
jcrawforor beans, then you may leave skid marks :)02:49
jcrawforGAN900: so much hostility :)02:49
GAN900jcrawfor, you'd have lots of hostility too if you'd been dealing with their bs since 2005. ;)02:50
jcrawforGAN900: who says you have to deal with it? you have a choice don't you?02:50
jcrawforbut i do hear your pain ;)02:50
GAN900lcuk, they need to stop doing everything in their power to put up roadblocks to progress.02:51
DocScrutinizerjcrawfor: /ns ghost02:51
AranelI wonder if it's possible to track live rates (ex. EUR to USD) from N900 easily, with an app?02:51
GAN900jcrawfor, what's my choice?02:51
GAN900jcrawfor, Android? iPhone?02:51
jcrawforDocScrutinizer: yea i know better i just leave it though :)02:51
lcukGAN900, ?02:51
jcrawforGAN900: go buy an old motorolla flip on ebay haha02:51
lcukAranel, i think theres a conversion widget that could do it02:51
IkarusAranel: at what accuracy ?02:51
lcukit might only lookup new price as you enter a value tho02:52
lcuknot sure02:52
Ikarusrealtime on the main markets ?02:52
lcukit should be reasonably trivial to take a widget that does similar and update it02:52
Ikarusthat's about 5 updates per second02:52
GAN900lcuk, close the internal tracker, make the policy open by default instead of closed, communicate with the community, pay attention to its input, don't jettison large swaths of customers with each generation, actually support existing customers.02:52
jcrawforare exchange rates delayed like US stock rates?02:52
lcukjust a quick wget and some grepping02:52
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Ikarusjcrawfor: nope02:52
jcrawforah ok02:52
Ikarusjcrawfor: also US stock rates are only delayed if you don't pay for them02:52
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konfoogan900: what is this utopia you refer to02:52
* Ikarus worked on market data distribution platforms02:53
jcrawforIkarus: yea i know but what app dev is going to pay for it so that everyone can have it lol02:53
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Aranellcuk: do you know it's package name?02:53
lcukAranel, nope sorry02:53
GAN900konfoo, I've often been called overly optimistic. ;)02:53
lcuktry packages interface on maemo02:53
lcukand search for currency or something02:53
MohammadAGGAN900, maemo isn't that bad02:53
jcrawforIkarus: oh so that was your glitch that brought stocks down to a penny last month :)02:53
AranelIkarus: maybe refreshing every 5 mins from should be enough.02:53
konfoogan900: anyhow i agree02:53
GAN900MohammadAG, no, it's not.02:53
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GAN900MohammadAG, but it's bad enough02:53
alteregoMohammadAG: getting permission denied from dput :(02:53
lcukyou are aware that to close the internal tracker would cause a metric fucktonne of work02:53
MohammadAGalterego, did you update the ssh key?02:53
alteregoMohammadAG: yeah, how long does that take? :P02:54
lcukand not trivial either02:54
MohammadAGGAN900, to be honest it's much more successful that symbian02:54
MohammadAGalterego, I'd give it 15 minutes02:54
MohammadAGor 3002:54
MohammadAGmax 6002:54
GAN900lcuk, maintaining two separate trackers make a fuckton of work for everybody else.02:54
GAN900lcuk, I have no sympathy.02:54
alteregoWell, it's 1am, I'm thinking of just going to sleep and leaving it until the morning proper :P02:54
GAN900After dealing with the insanity it's caused over the past years.02:54
jcrawforwhat tracker are you guys talking about?02:54
lcuknot really02:55
DocScrutinizerAranel: search in package description02:55
GAN900jcrawfor, Nokia's internal tracker.02:55
lcuki dont think thats the big issue personally02:55
GAN900jcrawfor, and the fact that it makes it impossible for anybody but Nokia to be involved.02:55
GAN900lcuk, yeah, it's actually an institution-wide sickness. :)02:55
lcukGAN900, but on the same side, theres full gitorious code for many system components02:56
jcrawfori am not sure what you mean by tracker :)02:56
GAN900Thus beating the shit out of all the managers and firing everybody who came from S60.02:56
lcukand people are playing with HIM stuff02:56
jcrawforyou say tracker i think torrent site lol02:56
lcukGAN900, every company in the world has its own tracker02:56
GAN900lcuk, which nobody will ever accept a patch for.02:56
alteregojcrawfor: bug tracker :P02:56
lcukGAN900, thats just bullshit and you know it02:56
GAN900lcuk, oh?02:56
GAN900Why do we never get patches, then?02:57
jcrawforalterego: haha i cant believe i did not think of that, i live in one all day long (Jira)02:57
GAN900and certainly not repeat attempts02:57
GAN900Because you can count on one hand the number of significant patches Nokia has actually shipped from the community02:57
jcrawforyea even as an employee i found it rather hard to submit a bug for the E72 mail app, i had to use an internal forum to report it, i think that is retarted why not have a public one that any user can add tickets to.02:57
GAN900Usually they're just left to fester for years on end.02:57
GAN900lcuk, frankly, I think you've lost your perspective. :)02:58
lcukGAN900, dont talk about patches, ook at mers strikingly similar situation, there was a lack of people with indepth gtk knowledge for the longest time around here02:58
lcuklook ^02:58
SpeedEvilWhere's microb's source. I've been looking for it off and on, and not found it. Anyone got a pointer?02:58
lcuknow we have people digging into HIM and playing with the portrait keyboards and interest02:58
lcuktheres people looking at modest to obtain patches02:58
GAN900lcuk, when people submit patches and have to wait 8 months to hear either "this product is discontinued" or "no", that's a problem.02:59
lcukand if good patches come along you can bet your ass i will integrate them02:59
lcukill fudging do it personally02:59
GAN900Ah, MicroB02:59
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GAN900Someone the UI never actually got opened like Nokia said it would.02:59
GAN900lcuk, one product does not a platform make.02:59
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derfGAN900: You're at all surprised?03:00
GAN900lcuk, and improved performance over the past few months doesn't overcome the inertia of years.03:00
jcrawforhrm GAN900 is dislexic :) does not a platform make :)03:00
GAN900derf, only sometimes.03:00
lcukmmm yes platform it make03:00
SpeedEvilIs is 'legal' for me to fix modest, and put it in extras?03:01
SpeedEvil(I have no intention of doing so)03:01
GAN900jcrawfor, how is that dyslexic?03:01
lcukSpeedEvil, try it03:01
GAN900SpeedEvil, yes.03:01
lcukfix it first03:01
SpeedEvilI mean permitted03:01
jcrawforgan saying/reading backwards :)03:01
konfoorename it 'microb evolved'03:01
konfoowait for the emails to roll in03:01
crashanddieI'm about to get banned from TMO because I said "Go back to the mental institute, mate".03:01
crashanddiein off-topic.03:01
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GAN900derf, I'll say it again, I'm ever the optimist. :P03:02
alteregoMohammadAG: uploaded now :)03:02
GAN900crashanddie, by whom?03:02
crashanddienote to self: start using ":P" more often, everywhere, at the end of every line.03:02
derfGAN900: Personally, I'm only ever surprised pleasantly.03:02
GAN900and why are you wasting time in off-topic?03:02
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crashanddiebecause the rest bores me?03:02
lcukSpeedEvil, in all seriousness, make some changes and lets go through the motions03:02
derfDid I miss something? Does lcuk work for Nokia now?03:02
crashanddiewell, I'm bored everywhere, really03:02
MohammadAGalterego, you'll miss the importer03:02
GAN900derf, I have much to learn. ;)03:02
lcukif they are good, i can try my best to get it integrated03:02
GAN900derf, sort of?03:02
derfWhat the hell does "sort of" mean?03:03
* GAN900 can see the Kool-Aid is strong there.03:03
lcukderf ive been on the fremantle application framework team for a while now03:03
SpeedEvillcuk: That was merely an example.03:03
GAN900derf, one of Nokia's numerous contractors.03:03
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MohammadAG<crashanddie> I'm about to get banned from TMO because I said "Go back to the mental institute, mate".03:03
SpeedEvillcuk: It's looking like I'm more likely to be emitting kernel patches in the near future.03:03
MohammadAGwhere, can't find it :P03:03
lcuksure SpeedEvil but gfi03:03
crashanddiederf: lcuk has been working for Nokia for nearly 20 years. NSA. Nokia Secret Agency. They recently allied with the FBI (Fun Bunch at Intel), and will probably merge to become the KGB. Kool Gang of Brothers.03:04
SpeedEvillcuk: yeah - there has been the false impression that lots more is actually closed than really is.03:04
GAN900SpeedEvil, might as well be closed with the over-the-wall mentality.03:05
lcukand SpeedEvil theres certainly much more emphasis on patch taking recently03:05
SpeedEvilGAN900: Well - yes.03:05
SpeedEvilGAN900: But if it's not impossible to stick replacement versions of system software on extras...03:05
GAN900SpeedEvil, depends on the software.03:05
SpeedEvilOr alternatively, a community repo - though that will have regrettably less traffic03:06
SpeedEvilGAN900: yeah.03:06
crashanddiehow do you write stuff to replace system stuff when the APis are documented?03:06
SpeedEvilI'm anticipating JRBME may have problems.03:06
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: it's quite easy.03:06
* SpeedEvil wonders if there was a missing not in tehre.03:06
lcuksomeone has reimplemented the calendar widget for maemo in OSS :)03:07
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crashanddieSpeedEvil: well, then, if it's so easy, can you show me a quick python ICD2 daemon example that intercepts the "connected to wifi" signal, calls a callback to establish the connection to wifi hotspot, and then sends the signal "All ready to go"?03:07
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crashanddieSpeedEvil: sorry, meant "when the APIs _aren't_ documented"03:08
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lcukcrashanddie, technically you make your own03:08
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lcukor reveng03:09
lcukbut bah03:09
crashanddielcuk: the framework is there. Everything exists. It's just not documented03:09
SpeedEvilReverese engineering what BME must do is not - fundamentally hard.03:09
lcukautodocs from the libraries03:09
lcukthen start fleshing them out manually03:09
SpeedEvilFor example.03:09
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alteregoMohammadAG: well, it's built fine, I'm going to bed now :P03:09
lcukyeah and tbh i am happy with leaving that box right where it is for now03:09
SpeedEvilWe have [[N900 Hardware Charge Meter]] and [[N900 Hardware Battery Charger]] docs.03:09
Termanagood morning03:09
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MohammadAGnight alterego03:10
SpeedEvilThis is a large slice of the pie, combined with the electrical knowledge as to how to charge lithium batteries. (which is not complex)03:10
DocScrutinizer51now it's official. today the nets suck03:10
SpeedEvilYou then need to work out - strace, dissasembly, reading APIs, checking dbus introspection, ... what it's talking to, and why. And then work out what format that's in.03:11
DocScrutinizer51damn, and I missed the whole fun03:11
SpeedEvilThen drop in a reverse engineered component.03:11
lcukSpeedEvil, sounds entirely like any linux component :p03:11
* lcuk still misses how clear the documentation for vb6 was :)03:12
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lcukit read like the amiga basic manual03:12
SpeedEvilIt's easy to miss edge cases though.03:12
SpeedEvilFor example, if BME signals 'battery on fire'03:13
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SpeedEvilAnd you haven't tested it with an on-fire battery.03:13
microlithtmo needs to be cleansed with fire03:13
IkarusSpeedEvil: atleast we know the BME doesn't implement battery authentication (Nokia wasn't quite that paranoid on the N900)03:14
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DocScrutinizerportscan :-/03:14
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DocScrutinizerWTF?! domain name pointer
lcuklooks like it does what it says on the tin03:16
lcukbut if you havent got anytihng on that port why are you being pestered03:16
SpeedEvilIkarus: yes.03:16
lcukie why have you got your firewall configured to paranoid03:16
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DocScrutinizerbut I wonder if it's just an incidentally that my DSL gone down03:16
DocScrutinizerlcuk: that's just my NAT log showing a massive portscan03:18
TermanaHow do you connect the fact that your being port scanned by freenode and your DSL going down...03:18
TermanaI mean MAYBE if you were being flooded with port scans03:18
DocScrutinizerTermana: dunno03:18
DocScrutinizerthe router running that NAT is Zyxel crap03:19
DocScrutinizermaybe it just rebooted or something03:19
DocScrutinizercan't say which end dropped the DSL03:20
* SpeedEvil wishes for opendsl03:20
DocScrutinizerwhatever that means03:20
TermanaDocScrutinizer, and you didn't just, you know, trip over the cord accidentally? :P03:21
SpeedEvilAn open-source DSL modem.03:21
SpeedEvilWith an A/D, a DAC, and a processor, and a fully open source DSL modem stack03:21
TermanaSpeedEvil, isn't that what OpenWRT it about?03:21
SpeedEvilTermana: nothing like that03:21
SpeedEvilTermana: OpenWRT basically ignores the whole modem part, as it's complex and hard.03:22
SpeedEvilOpenWRT things that work with DSL do it by using the original closed binaries.03:22
MohammadAGfrals, you want me to read all of this? XD03:23
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* MohammadAG starts wget -m, he'll need them this summer holiday03:23
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asjSpeedEvil: odd how no company wants to release an ATM+ADSL2+ stack into the open, wonder why ;)03:24
* toresbe just prefers to have a Linux box do the routing and leave the DSL to some embedded software that's usually able to deal with that well03:24
DocScrutinizerIkarus: battery authentication? :-o Now that sounds nasty - like printer cartridge chips03:24
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SpeedEvilasj: I happen to have a DSL modem that is crap, and I'd like to replace it - but I can't. It's got a comedy coding rror.03:25
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SpeedEvilasj: normally, you can request to the exchange that you get an increased margin. The exchange sets the default margin at times very high. For example, due to occasional noise on my line - occasionally as high as 20dB.03:26
IkarusDocScrutinizer: Nokia has been considering it, due to third party batteries catching fire and the like03:26
DocScrutinizerasj: that's because there's lots of know how in that stack, to squeeze the most out of the line03:26
SpeedEvilasj: The comedy error is that if instead of saying 'adsl snr 30' - to set the margin to 3dB more than the exchange wants - as added security - I can say 'adsl snr 65520' - to set it to lots less than the exchange wants.03:27
DocScrutinizerIkarus: insane03:27
SpeedEvilIt couldn't have anything at all to do with the fact that nokia makes profits onbatteries.03:27
IkarusSpeedEvil: actually no03:28
IkarusSpeedEvil: given that they have had the tech ready for years03:28
Ikarusjust never implemented it because the problem is less bad now03:28
SpeedEvilThey are shaving costs.03:29
SpeedEvilThey omitted a charge monitor chip from the bat, for example.03:29
DocScrutinizergta02-battery FTW03:29
SpeedEvil - for example - people thinking hals idea of the batteyr capacity means something03:30
asjDocScrutinizer: having writen dsl drivers, and worked on closed source atm stack yes I'm very aware of that, see the ;)03:31
IkarusSpeedEvil: actually that is one hell of a common cost saving :(03:31
SpeedEvilasj: I actually also for some reason I ahven't worked out - get considereably higher downstream performance if I knock out a fair number of the upstream carriers.03:31
Ikarusie, I don't have a phone battery or netbook battery with charge monitor03:32
DocScrutinizerI do03:32
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DocScrutinizerand IIRC that was about some additional 6 bucks / battery, for GTA0203:33
asjSpeedEvil: mmm, I could speculate as to why, but that wouldn't seem unreasonable.  Given the environment adsl lives in it's kind of amazing to see how well it works03:33
SpeedEvilasj: yeah. I guess it's some nonlinearity on the line03:33
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SpeedEvilasj: As I read the standards - there is no modeling of that int he training sequence03:34
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: harmonics?03:34
DocScrutinizeror IM03:34
SpeedEvilI think harmonics rather than IM03:34
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (training) yep. Though asj should know better ;-P03:35
asjSpeedEvil: if you had enough details you should be able to read back exactly why...but alas... :)03:35
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asj(a vs b was better I mean)03:36
SpeedEvilasj: yes - step 0 would be instrumenting an existing stack. Which is often tricky.03:36
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SpeedEvilI cheated.03:36
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SpeedEvilI assumed two blocks cut out of the DSL upstream would give best response. I tried them all, till I found the optimum one that gave a sane upstream margin and best downstream performance.03:37
SpeedEvil~700 retrains.03:37
asjSpeedEvil: you need a girlfriend ;)03:38
* asj runs03:38
SpeedEvilIt was two lines of shell.03:38
SpeedEvilAnd, yes.03:38
* SpeedEvil ponders a personal ad. 'Wanted - Girl with machine shop. Send picture (of shop)'.03:39
asjthe responses might scare you03:39
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MohammadAG<asj> SpeedEvil: you need a girlfriend ;)03:42
MohammadAGrelationships are overrated03:42
MohammadAGit's exciting the first year03:42
MohammadAGthe second year gets normal03:43
MohammadAGthird year the complaints start03:43
MohammadAG4th year you get kids, and then your life tumbles downhill03:43
asjSpeedEvil: oddly enough, I met my wife on a linpeople (which grew into freenode)03:43
konfoowait till you hit 1003:43
lcukexcept this advice is coming from a teenager, so change years to days03:43
MohammadAGwell, kids aren't that bad03:44
konfooi have two kids, they are great03:44
konfooeveryone else's kids are bad.. there's the distinction03:44
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MohammadAGwell, relationships eventually kill your early outside life03:46
MohammadAG#maemo killed mine03:46
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luke-jrMohammadAG: fail03:47
MohammadAG~fsck luke-jr03:47
infobote2fsck /dev/luke-jr : warning! filesystem contains idiots!03:47
luke-jrMohammadAG: not all relationships are marriage03:47
MohammadAG<3 that one03:47
luke-jrand the whole point of marriage is kids03:47
MohammadAGluke-jr, I was referring to that part03:47
MohammadAG<MohammadAG> 4th year you get kids, and then your life tumbles downhill03:48
luke-jrno, that's the beginning03:48
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MohammadAGmake it 4+, it varies :P03:48
luke-jrand you'd need to have some kind of disorder to take 4 years03:48
MohammadAGluke-jr, how old are you :)03:48
luke-jr24 I think03:48
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luke-jr25 in a few days if correct03:48
MohammadAGI think <-- lol03:48
pigeonhmm, i met my wife on the good old days text mud...03:48
luke-jryeah, I'll be 2503:49
konfoo1985, damn03:49
asjpigeon: what was she on the mud, date we ask ;)03:49
luke-jrmarried, 4 kids so far03:49
konfooin 1985 i was making chlorine bombs and beating on the amiga keyboard03:49
pigeonasj: as in?03:49
asjpigeon: yeah03:50
* MohammadAG got lost03:50
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* pigeon got lost too.03:50
asjMohammadAG: N N E E W S N E03:50
MohammadAGRiiight..., what?03:50
luke-jrMohammadAG: n00b03:50
luke-jrthose are obviously directions03:51
luke-jrnorth, north, east, east, west, south, north, east03:51
* SpeedEvil ponders03:51
luke-jreast + west must imply some kind of magic/trap03:51
MohammadAGluke-jr, I'm not sure #maemo allows swear words, so I'll use $SWEARWORD instead03:51
pigeonasj: ;)03:51
SpeedEvilI think you banged against the door of the knights guild.03:51
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: Many muds had bits with noneuclidian directions.03:51
asjluke-jr: no no, you fell down a hole03:52
luke-jrasj: ah03:52
SpeedEvilluke-jr: As the rooms were simply linked nodes, not a proper map.03:52
* MohammadAG kinda remembered portal03:52
luke-jrSpeedEvil: I'm aware; still bad design in most cases :)03:52
MohammadAGfor some reason03:52
* MohammadAG wants Portal 203:52
asjMohammadAG: You feel a presence behind you...03:52
MohammadAGasj, nah, it's just a portal I forgot to close *fires orange gun*03:53
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, you really should try it :)03:53
asjthere was a mud I used to love, then it was overrun by pkillers and stopped being any fun03:53
MohammadAGI know you might not be a gamer, but... it's a smartass's game03:53
MohammadAGwtf is a mud03:54
DocScrutinizerI'm out for a postal walk in the night :-P03:54
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Think WOW - but in text03:54
asjMohammadAG: it's a darker version of a moo03:54
* MohammadAG forwards two minutes later, wb Doc03:54
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, World of Worldcraft? ewww :)03:54
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Sort-of.03:55
luke-jrasj: lol, usually MOO is described in terms of MUD, not vice-versa03:55
asjluke-jr: bah03:55
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MohammadAGRPGs, bah03:55
SpeedEvilIt's one of the major reasons I don't beat on people who get addicted to WOW/... too badly.03:55
MohammadAGI hate RPGs :)03:55
SpeedEvilAs I lost much of a year to muds.03:55
luke-jrI grew up in a MOO03:55
MohammadAGFPSs ftw03:56
luke-jrMOOs make MUDs look lame03:56
* MohammadAG wonders if anyone in here has a PS303:56
* lcuk sighs03:56
lcuki miss portal03:57
konfoomuds were nothing like wow03:57
MohammadAGyay, at least someone played it :)03:57
konfoofirst off, people had genuine interest - not many online idiots to pollute the place03:57
konfoosecond: no gfx03:57
konfoothird: no gfx03:57
asjluke-jr: I could have said MOO is to Second Life as a Mud is to WoW?03:57
MohammadAG<konfoo> first off, people had genuine interest - not many online idiots to pollute the place03:57
lcuksays that guy playing maemo on an ascii irc channel03:57
* MohammadAG looks at talk.maemo.org03:58
luke-jrasj: maybe. I never got Second Life to work03:58
MohammadAGI guess history does repeat itself03:58
SpeedEvilkonfoo: I would argue that the lack of graphics is orthogonal.03:58
konfoomohammed: haha well true in that sense03:58
asjluke-jr: people buiding huge unpopulated worlds and online sex03:58
luke-jrasj: then no03:58
konfooorthogonal in what sense03:58
luke-jrMOO is all about programming03:58
lcukasj, thats second life03:58
luke-jrand socialization03:59
lcuktheres more to rpg than flying penises03:59
asjluke-jr: so is SL ;)03:59
SpeedEvilkonfoo: In that gameplay can be - broadly - similar with or without graphics.03:59
luke-jrwhich might seem contradictatory, but... not quite03:59
luke-jrasj: SL is probably not as programmable03:59
asjluke-jr: the furries would be no where without programming ;)03:59
konfoospeed: well ofcourse, everything is a variation of pong03:59
* lcuk . o O ( i never thought i would be trying to work out the plaural of penis )03:59
luke-jrgraphics greatly restrict the extensibility of programming04:00
konfoobut a graphical game encourages no thought or imagination, it's a visual bowl of dogfood04:00
luke-jrit's much easier to say "The thing bites Wizard's toes." than to try to make an animated model of it04:00
lcukand it works sometimes04:00
* b-man|laptop trys to get a handle on how this strange conversation has started between you guys04:00
konfoowell, it's how you describe the wizard's toes04:00
SpeedEvilkonfoo: Well - you get a _wide_ variety of muds.04:00
konfooand the thing04:00
lcukthat description is art in itself04:00
lcukits story telling04:01
SpeedEvilThere is that.04:01
konfoospeed: im not saying all text adventures or muds are equal, far from it04:01
SpeedEvilBut the playstyle, and the story element varies enormously in scope.04:01
luke-jranyone here play on Elandor or whatever it's called now?04:01
lcukwe read books without graphics and enjoy them04:01
lcukand there are MANY more books than there are games04:01
luke-jrformerly Middle Earth MUSH04:01
konfoomuds/text adventures were also a much slower pace04:01
lcukkonfoo, speak for yourself04:01
MohammadAG(yes, I know it's not a real BSOD :p)04:01
b-man|laptopMohammadAG, +104:02
lcukmavis beacon told me i could type at 90wpm04:02
MohammadAGb-man|laptop, read the title in the BSOD04:02
asjI wonder if any muds/mush/moos still exist in a large way?04:02
konfooyou had time to absorb what you had read, decide and contemplate what to do, use imagination, etc04:02
luke-jrasj: the one I mentioned seems to04:02
luke-jrLambdaMOO still has constant over 100 online at any time04:02
asjthank got the n900 has telnet ;)04:02
konfoolcuk: besides moving around04:02
luke-jrMOO is very popular among the blind, I've noticed04:02
b-man|laptopMohammadAG: lol04:02
luke-jrasj: telnet sucks04:03
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konfootangentially, interactive fiction04:03
ptlI just used ICA Client for ARM over tsocks to access my company's intranet bug tracker :O awesome04:03
MohammadAGlcuk, not sure it's gonna be like the first one
lcukkonfoo, how fast can you respond to conversation in a channel?04:03
MohammadAGI would've settled for extra test champers04:03
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konfoolcuk: clearly not the same thing04:04
luke-jrmotion to move #Maemo to a MOO04:04
lcukMohammadAG, o_O04:04
lcukkonfoo, why not?04:04
luke-jr511 online...04:04
* Termana slowly creeps behind luke-jr04:04
lcukreacting to stimulus and writing "drop sword"04:04
Termanaluke-jr is unable to see Termana04:04
MohammadAGluke-jr, count both bots you racist04:04
* luke-jr suddenly drops dead.04:04
konfoolcuk: i dont have to reply to you immediately04:04
lcukis just like turning a corner on a gp race04:04
konfooi could reply to you next year if this were an if game04:04
* Termana runs away04:04
lcukkonfoo, but the fudging grue is after me04:04
luke-jrMohammadAG: my client literally says "511 nicks"; is it wrong?04:04
konfoolcuk: ha04:04
* ptl casts a ressurrecting spell upon luke-jr.04:05
konfooi dont recall the grue being on a timer :P04:05
MohammadAGluke-jr, lag04:05
MohammadAG* lopz has quit (Quit: Saliendo)04:05
luke-jrMohammadAG: fail04:05
MohammadAGdamn interwebz04:05
lcukkonfoo, good for you, i however pressed the turbo button on my ibm pc04:05
luke-jrso, MaeMOO anyone?04:05
lcukthat damn character gave me nightmares04:05
MohammadAG/cs kick #maemo luke-jr04:05
Termanaluke-jr, Have you mooed today?04:06
konfoo for luke-jr04:06
MohammadAGapt-get moo04:06
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass04:06
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Termanab-man|laptop, lol04:06
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MohammadAG~debian b-man|laptop04:07
* infobot tells b-man|laptop to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!04:07
* MohammadAG hands infobot her pills04:07
b-man|laptop~ubuntu MohammadAG04:07
* infobot lovingly explains to MohammadAG in a way that causes MohammadAG to weep with gratitude that MohammadAG must read the fine, friendly manual04:07
MohammadAG~fedora b-man|laptop04:08
* infobot tells b-man|laptop that becoming RHCP certified, is The One True Way to Supreme Linux Knowledge04:08
b-man|laptop~gentoo MohammadAG04:08
* infobot recompiles MohammadAG again04:08
MohammadAGwhat's gentoo all about04:08
MohammadAGis it like a linux distro with no package manager?04:08
pwnguinMohammadAG: you know BSD ports?04:09
b-man|laptopit's a distribution where every package that is installed via portage (the package manager) is compiled by source04:09
konfooits like a distro with a package manager on crack04:09
MohammadAGpwnguin, too young to know that04:09
b-man|laptop*from source locally04:09
MohammadAGb-man|laptop, well, that ra**s the CPU...04:10
pwnguinMohammadAG: basically, gentoo is like Debian if no developer could agree on any technical decision04:10
b-man|laptopyup xD04:10
luke-jrtelnet 777704:10
pwnguinand portage basically the coping mechanism for this04:10
MohammadAGportage only downloads the source, and runs make + make install04:10
MohammadAGI could do the same and release my own distro04:11
MohammadAGshould prolly call it MAG04:11
pwnguinMohammadAG: it also lets you customize compiler flags distrowide04:11
MohammadAGcool, not04:11
pwnguinand set crazy optimization levels04:11
MohammadAGI wonder if I can sue MAG for using my initials04:11
luke-jrMohammadAG: it automatically does it for updates too04:11
luke-jrMohammadAG: and works with screwed up non-configure systems04:11
luke-jrbut seriously guys04:12
MohammadAGluke-jr, how does it handle dependencies04:12
luke-jrjoin MaeMOO!04:12
luke-jrtelnet 777704:12
luke-jrMohammadAG: by installing them first04:12
pwnguinMohammadAG: portage trees contain the same dep info debian does04:12
luke-jrMohammadAG: the real power is in USE flags and being able to mix-and-match stable with testing or even unstable04:13
MohammadAGI'll stick to Debian04:13
b-man|laptopyou can also install binary package via portage if you don't want to wait for them to compile04:13
luke-jrMohammadAG: sounds good04:13
luke-jrb-man|laptop: only if binaries exist04:13
luke-jrwhich they generally don't04:13
b-man|laptopis Arch any good?04:14
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luke-jrguys, MaeMOO...04:15
luke-jrtake the chat there04:15
konfooim there04:15
luke-jryeah, only you :P04:15
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: telnet 777704:16
MohammadAGwe got it04:16
MohammadAGalso, I can't connect :P04:16
luke-jrMohammadAG: why?04:16
b-man|laptop* Welcome to MaeMOO!04:17
b-man|laptop* Type 'connect <username> <password>' to login, or 'create <username> <password>' to join.04:17
b-man|laptop* I don't understand that.  Valid commands at this point are04:17
MohammadAG* Looking up nat.router.dashjr.org04:17
MohammadAG* Connecting to ( port 0...04:17
MohammadAG* Connection failed. Error: Connection refused04:17
luke-jrb-man|laptop: so type a valid command04:17
luke-jrMohammadAG: you forgot the 777704:17
luke-jrMohammadAG: your telnet client is broken04:17
* MohammadAG uses xchat04:17
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MohammadAG* <BR><BR>This is not a webserver.  Try connecting with a telnet client.<BR><BR>04:18
MohammadAG* *** Disconnected ***04:18
MohammadAG* Disconnected (Remote host closed socket).04:18
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MohammadAGI.. seriously don't get it04:20
* MohammadAG is off04:20
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luke-jrthere's a way to DCC send a MOO I remember04:23
luke-jrI forget how tho04:23
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luke-jrthere, I contributed to the less developer side of the Maemo community04:27
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* SpeedEvil needs tio work out why his kernel will not boot04:33
* ptl needs to work out.04:34
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SpeedEviloh - 81004:34
* SpeedEvil ponders commenting 'this won't boot on my n900'/04:34
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pigeonhmm, is down or something...05:13
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redeemanhello, im having a problem logging onto a wireless network, its setup without any encryption or stuff, but my n900 thinks there is, it says: "wifi protected setuo compliant" and wants me to use some button on the ap to autoconfigure or enter in some pin on the ap, but it has neither of those functions... if i do iwlist wlan0 scan on my linux laptop it shows just a standard master mode no encryption open AP05:15
redeemanany ideas?05:16
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pigeonredeeman: i had similar issue on the weekend with someone's wireless ap, i just go into settings -> internet connections and add the ap connection and it worked.05:22
redeemanthank you, will try it right now05:22
pigeonyeah we couldn't figure what that pin method thing is, and there is no button on the ap either.05:23
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redeemanits connecting it seems05:23
redeemanwills ee if it works now05:23
redeemanit seems it has worked, its searched for updates05:24
redeemanpigeon, thanks alot05:24
pigeoncool, np.05:24
redeemannow i just hope it supports powersaving05:24
redeemanotherwise i should have brought an AP myself05:24
redeemanim in the phillipines, came from denmark05:25
redeemanso well :)05:25
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Dassuanybody else having problems with skype continously reconnecting when the wifi power save is set to high?07:14
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DocScrutinizerknown issue07:15
DocScrutinizerrumour has it it depends on your particular AP07:15
DassuPretty sure thats the case since I have no problems in my school07:16
swc|666tcpdump it07:16
DocScrutinizerswc|666: won't help. That's protocol layer07:16
swc|666what's protocol layer07:17
DocScrutinizerbeacons and shit07:17
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swc|666still a pcap would be my first instinct ;)07:18
DocScrutinizerin monitor mode yes07:18
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swc|666Dassu, insall tcpdump and upload the cap file07:19
DocScrutinizerbut then you won't see the same behavior when you put N900 wifi into monitor mode :-P07:19
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DocScrutinizeryou'd need to listen to the OTA with a separate protocol device, so N900 goes to powersave mode07:20
DocScrutinizerwhich in monitor it obviously doesn't07:21
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swc|666dump it from the AP07:21
DocScrutinizerthat's a valid way, if AP can do that07:21
DocScrutinizeropenWRT probably can07:22
swc|666it can07:22
DocScrutinizerbut then openWRT probably also has no problems with N900 PSM07:22
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swc|666Dassu, when you say itpower save was set to high, you meant high powersave or vice versa?07:23
DocScrutinizernah, you'll have to use your laptop, and a wifi dongle with monitor mode supported, and then start ethereal07:23
swc|666there's a few ways to debug it07:24
swc|666no idea what he means about the continous reconnecting though, haven't seen the bug report07:25
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DocScrutinizer51maybe the wlan kernel driver has a debug parameter?07:29
Dassuswc|666: powersave yes07:29
swc|666wl12{xx,51} is ugly07:30
Dassuswc|666: this started happening to me after PR 1.2 but skype was already unusable before it. (The calls would stutter)07:30
swc|666hence i'm contracting a driver dev for packet injection07:30
DassuHowever with powersave set to medium or low would fix the problem07:30
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* swc|666 has 2 spare batteries and doesnt believe in saving power07:32
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swc|666DocScrutinizer, ah now i put 2+2 together07:34
swc|666= joerg07:34
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DocScrutinizer51maybe the wlan kernel driver has a debug parameter?07:35
DocScrutinizer51though I guess even that woulldn't help much. Probably on powersave active N900 just ignores queries from AP which results in AP disconnecting the client07:35
DocScrutinizer51this won't show up directlyin a kernel driver log07:35
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DocScrutinizer51you could spot easily though when e.g. dissecting a airodump full packet trace, done from a 3rd machine07:38
swc|666there are debug params07:38
asjDocScrutinizer51: I don't buy that07:38
DocScrutinizer51asj: what exactly?07:39
asjDocScrutinizer51: the AP knows the station is doing power-save poll and won't wake up till a beacon goes out with data waiting set07:39
asj(and can ignore many beacons)07:40
DocScrutinizer51hmm. on sane AP for sure07:40
swc|666keyword = sane07:40
asjDocScrutinizer51: there are no sane APs07:40
DocScrutinizer51well, maybe it's all muuuuuuch more complex and nasty. WLAN is a bitch07:41
DocScrutinizer51but basically you got exactly 2 vectors to tackle it: either compare all parameters of a working and a borked AP. Or analyze the tarffic between N900 an borked AP07:43
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DocScrutinizer511. is the easy way, 2nd should always solve the problem07:45
swc|666i vote for traf analysis07:45
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swc|666although i have to say, wl1251 has been nice for me on eap-ttls07:45
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swc|666sometimes i have to rmmod/modprobe the driver after a couple of days though07:46
swc|666kvalo is a nice guy and all, but i think wl12xx was a "rush job"07:47
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swc|666hence there are other issues with it07:47
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jaemOne of our N900s was acting flaky the other night, and now it seems fine :/07:59
jaemIt /would/ figure that as soon as we ask Nokia about it, it starts working agin.07:59
infobotjaem meant: It /would/ figure that as soon as we ask Nokia about it, it starts working again.07:59
jaemHas anyone else had random un/locking or booting happen when applying pressure on the left side of the bezel?08:00
jaemSince we got it from the local office, they'll take care of it, but I can't prove it's broken.  Heh.08:01
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DocScrutinizer51tbh sounds like a severe hw bug08:08
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RST38hjaem: hw is sneaky, it never exhibits symptoms when you are ready to do away with it08:11
jaemRST38h, Heh, yeah.08:14
jaemIt didn't act up before that, either, which is odd.08:14
jaemI don't know where exactly it came from, though...08:15
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RST38hcarry a ritual screwdriver when around it!08:15
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jaemIt's a retail unit, given to us by the local office, with a stupid European plug.08:15
jaemRST38h, any suggestions on brand? ;)08:15
DocScrutinizer51european pugs are NOT stupid >:-(08:17
DocScrutinizer51torx T6 always looks megacool08:17
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jaemDocScrutinizer51, Who would design a plug that needs an adaptor to fit into a socket?  They're /obviously/ crazy. ;)08:18
DocScrutinizer51:-P it only fits into smart sockets08:19
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jaemDocScrutinizer51, Torx are fun... but then there are those other ones... "torK" or some such, which look similar, but aren't.08:20
RST38hjaem: no specific brand preferences, but of course it has to be made of titanium =008:21
* RST38h prefers European plugs. US/japan ones are too flimsy, and the UK one looks like it has been made for electric chairs08:22
DocScrutinizer51RST38h: ack08:25
microlithjapan's are worse08:26
microliththey rarely have ground pins :/08:26
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DocScrutinizer51taiwan same: US w/o PE08:27
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RST38hRussian ones rarely have ground pins too. Otherwise, they are just like European ones08:31
DocScrutinizer51so you frequently have the flimsy US plug, with an equaly flimsy adapter which just extends the 2 main contacs, sitting 8 in a row in a megaflimsy multiple socket abot 30mm wide08:32
RST38hExcept maybe an older version, not suited for recessed sockets08:32
DocScrutinizer51and trying to unplug them is really hazardous08:32
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RST38hwell it is 110V08:34
derfIt isn't the voltage that kills you, it's the amps.08:35
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RST38hderf: But the amps are a function of the voltage and your skin resistance08:36
RST38hSo, given the same skin, higher voltage will kill you better. Maybe even roast you a bit, in the process.08:37
jaemRST38h, thank you.  derf's statement is a common line that annoys me. :S08:37
pigeondoes anyone know which imap server(s) work with modest with showing only subscribed imap folders?08:37
jaemderf, No offence meant.08:37
RST38hjaem: derf is essentially correct though08:37
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RST38hjaem: One thing that follows from his statement is that you should never work with high voltage when drunk or tired08:38
jaemRST38h, well, yes, but the statement usually implies a lack of knowledge about the laws involved.08:38
RST38hjaem: even 24V may be enough in those cases08:38
jaemAnd yes, I agree. :P08:38
jaemHeh... yes.08:38
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fralsbah, still borked08:40
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DocScrutinizer51in Germany, 42V are considered safety limit08:41
RST38hEthernet is 50V btw ;)08:42
fralsX-Fade: seems borked08:42
* frals goes back to bed08:42
asjRST38h: ethernet is most certainly not 50v08:43
RST38hI may be mistaking it for something then, a moment08:43
asjtrue IEEE PoE is ~40 some08:43
RST38hAh, I know where I got it08:44
RST38h48V is the telephone network signaling voltage08:44
asjpots lines, those still exist?08:45
asj96v on ring, hold onto a ringing phonel line for a thrill08:46
DocScrutinizer51that's Vpp though08:46
asjyes, and at 10hz it sucks08:47
asj(us ringing, no clue about the rest of world)08:47
DocScrutinizer51isn't it 25Hz?08:47
asjyou wouldn't feel 25hz like this I would expect...<shrug>08:48
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dl9pfPOE is 48V, safety limit is 50V08:53
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RST38hasj: 96V when ringing? Ah, come on, it got higher than that =)08:55
asjRST38h: that was the spec I thought08:56
RST38hasj: Except that granny's telephone made god-knows-when never complied with the spec =)08:56
asjRST38h: just like it's not 48, it's 50 upto 60v, since 48v is just 4*12v for the lead acid batteries and they are sitting on charge08:56
RST38hasj: (at least in USSR, I guess they might have had better telephones in the US :))08:56
asjRST38h: it's no the phone that provides the power, it's the telco co08:56
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RST38hasj: Don't forget about the feedback08:57
asjRST38h: can't speak for russian phone, I thought in soviet russia the phone's rang you ;)08:57
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RST38hasj: The ringer is basically a coil. When rininging, it creates feedback08:57
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RST38hasj: So, yes, the voltage could easily get higher than 2*48.08:57
asjRST38h: don't know how russian phones worked, but that's not how north american phones did08:58
RST38hasj: Somehow, I suspect that all phones worked the same :)08:58
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asjRST38h: with that logic you would assume all TV standards would be same too ;)08:59
RST38hasj: Not really, but then I *know* TV standards are different08:59
RST38hasj: The phone network standards are worldwide though.09:00
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asjRST38h: umm, E1 vs T1 would prove that wrong, so would the whole OC vs SDH system09:00
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asjRST38h: if they can't even agree on ulaw vs alaw for voice I'm not sure local loop would be better09:01
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RST38hThat came much much later though ;)09:03
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* RST38h sighs and goes to work.09:03
DocScrutinizerSELV (Safety Extra Low Voltage) where no isolation needed, is <25V AC, <60V DC. For sensitive areas there is a special protective Voltage of 42V defined.09:03
asjRST38h: yeah after they invented a way to talk to each other they couldn't agree on a standard, could it be much better when they had to write letters? ;)09:03
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ScifiFirst time Git user here. Can anyone help?09:04
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asjScifi: whacha need?09:05
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Scifiasj: error "unable to chdir or not a git archive" when i run the command "git push ssh://"09:08
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Scifivicar is my project and I have the ssh keys set up (i think)09:08
asjand is /git/vicar a git repo?09:09
ScifiDuring project creation i selected Git if thats what you are asking09:10
asj(never used
Scifithis is the project page, it says git too (as opposed to svn for some projects)09:11
DocScrutinizer51and 600Ohm POTS was sufficently alike all over the world so a phond would work everywhere09:11
Scifiasj: what do u use generally? http to push to git rep?09:11
asjScifi: just different localtions09:12
asjScifi: did the git clone ssh://.... work?09:12
Scififirst time it creates an empty repository with branch master only09:12
ScifiI mean yest, git clone ssh:// works09:13
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asjand then you copied in files, commited them, then tried to push and it failed?09:13
DocScrutinizer51(pots) major diffs: pulse/pause ratio of rotary dial, allowable ringer equivalence, frequency of ring signal, and later flash/hook duration09:15
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asjDocScrutinizer51: changing the pulse/pause ratio isn't a small change09:17
Scifiasj: Small confusion here, git clone ssh:// failed with the same error (not a git archive)09:18
DocScrutinizer51it's marginal though, exchanges work with both standards usually09:18
asjDocScrutinizer51: ok09:18
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asj(not like anyone uses pulse dialing anymore)09:18
Scifiasj: but git clone worked09:18
asjScifi: ah, perhaps the ssh keys are wrong?09:19
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Juozapashi how to install midnight commander? i can't found it on extras repositories09:19
DocScrutinizer51asj: something like 1:1 vs 1.1:0.909:19
Scifiasj: earlier it was giving public key error, so i created the file ~/.ssh/config and entered the details as per the instructions in garage09:20
asjDocScrutinizer51: kind of amazing they are so similar considering how many different telcos and everything sprung up.  You have to consider this started in the 20s09:20
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Scifiasj: I don't need to ssh. Even https: is fine if it works09:20
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asjintersting, ovi chat takes less power that google talk09:22
pigeonhmm, that n900 usb host mode thing is interesting... how does it work?09:22
asjScifi: no clue09:22
Scifiasj: i think i am getting somewhere, dropped the whole ssh thing. Now trying https only09:23
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Scifigot a different error, master -> master (non-fast-forward)09:23
asjScifi: pull first09:23
asjScifi: on a push most repos won't allow a non ff merge since that could be bad09:24
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* Scifi frantically googles what fast forward merge means09:25
Mecescifi -a helps :)09:26
ScifiMece: blame the spelling suggestions :)09:26
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DocScrutinizer51pigeon: still a lot of patches in kernel missing for a reliable operation09:27
asjScifi: everything is in a nice straight line, esentially09:27
Scifiasj: tried pull and doing push now, it is doing something which is good09:27
DocScrutinizer51 pigeon all we got so far is a proof it's possible09:27
pigeonso it's done at software level? what about the hardware?09:28
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Scifiasj: i did a local git init, add and commit before the remote pull and push, will my changes be pushed?09:29
luke-jrScifi: what makes you think you can do that?09:29
asjScifi: keep things simple, just clone the remote repo09:29
Scifiluke-jr: general noobness :)09:30
DocScrutinizer51pigeon: hw is 'fine' basically09:30
pigeonso the hw does support usb host to start with?09:30
Scifiasj: i was getting some error09:30
Scifiwill try again09:30
pigeonright, ok09:30
asjScifi: and yes you most certainly can do that, but your life is more complicated since you have multiple, oh what's the git term, well locations. Which is fine, but it defaults to using "origin" for many things, otherwise you have to specicy which one you want and that's just going to confuse you09:31
Scifiasj: git pull and push failed anyway. So I take that git clone is the way to go (to avoid unnecessary headaches later)09:33
asjScifi: you have to init the repo, you can't pull into an empty directory09:33
asjScifi: git clone does that09:33
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Meceasj, is there something in the remote repo?09:34
asjMece: no it's empty...should be fine no?09:34
Meceerr sorry scifi is what I meant.09:34
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ScifiMece: it is empty, i am trying push for the first time09:34
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asjScifi: just do this: git clone <url>; add files; git add ...; git commit -a; git push;09:35
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Scifiasj: cloned, "git add ." is not working. How do I add multiple files? I have multiple sub-folders and files09:36
asjScifi: git add --help09:36
Mecescifi git add . adds everything under current dir.09:37
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asjgive a man a fish and you feed him for a day, set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life09:37
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Scifiasj: "git add ." --> fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git09:42
Scifithis is where i started of :)09:43
asjScifi: what did the git clone say?09:43
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Scifigit clone was successful, it created vicar/.git/ folder structure under my current folder09:44
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asjScifi: then you did "cd vicar" right?09:44
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Scifiasj: yes but if i am in ./vicar I am not able to access my code which is in the parent directory09:45
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asjScifi: move your code....09:45
asjScifi: everything must be in the repo09:45
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Scifiasj: sorry confused, /home/scifi/vicar/vicar-0.2 is my current folder which has all the code09:46
asj(of course it's git so there's other options for the nit pickers on how to do the clone, but this is easy. Clone creates a dir, but everything under that dir, which is the local repo)09:47
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Scifiok then will move the code to the subdirectory created by clone09:47
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Mecescifi, copy instead ;)09:48
asjyeah copy, safer09:48
asjthough I'm thinking rm might be safer for the world </mean> ;)09:49
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asjScifi: git can be confusing...though have you ever dealt with any source control?09:49
pigeondamn, modest and imap folder subscription is quite annoying :(09:50
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Scifiask: Rational ClearCase :)09:50
asjnot sure how git compares, I don't think it compares to anything...09:51
ScifiI am from windows world09:51
Scifiasj:nope not at all, but the concepts commit, branch etc are same09:51
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Mecescifi, well git works fine in windows too. it's exactly the same.09:51
asjScifi: any linux experience?09:51
Scifiasj: U mean development? started one month ago, released a Qt app to extras-devel :)09:53
Scifihave end-user experience on Solaris, Ubuntu :)09:53
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Mecescifi, git is special because the repo is local, so you can work with local version control and push to server when you feel like it.09:54
asjScifi: ok, it would be big learnign curve to jump into linux fresh from windows and start devel09:54
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Mecescifi so how is the git doing now? making progress?09:55
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ScifiMece: I think i'll like it once i get it working for the first time. Same with developement too. Git is pushing the code now09:55
asjScifi: sounds like you got the hang of it09:56
Scifiasj: Was/am a Java, from eclipse to gcc was indeed a big jump :)09:56
asjScifi: have you looked at madde?09:56
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Scifiasj: Yes but didn't quite like it as much as Qt Creator + Scratchbox on Ubuntu09:57
ScifiI am used to Ubuntu and I am not scared by command line :)09:57
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asjScifi: ok09:58
furunk3lyes hello09:58
Scifiasj: git says it is successful09:59
Scifilet me check on server09:59
asjScifi: congrats09:59
Scifiyes I see it in garage.09:59
Scifiasj: Thank you very much09:59
ScifiMece: Thanks alot :)10:00
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pigeongit it, git it good :)10:07
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fralsbah, annoying modest doesnt show if ppl are cc'd on the mail unless you hit reply all10:14
fralsneed to use that button by default ;[10:14
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Appiah_or check message details10:16
Appiah_thats how I do it10:16
Appiah_wouldn't hurt with a To: / cc: field10:17
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*** noobmonk3y has joined #maemo10:19 winges10:19
* noobmonk3y even10:19
noobmonk3ymy n900 is fooked10:20
Duckbootnoobmonk3y: Wuut?10:20
noobmonk3yjust woken up and it won't turn on :( - white light, nokia screen, then long fading yellow led10:20
Duckbootnoobmonk3y: Reflash ;-P10:20
noobmonk3ymeh 4010:20
noobmonk3yminutes till work10:20
noobmonk3ynot around tonight10:20
Duckbootnoobmonk3y: Or kickstart it with a wall-charger10:20
noobmonk3ypants pants pants10:20
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* noobmonk3y has no wall charger - girlfriend stole it10:21
noobmonk3yso last 2 nights been charging of laptop10:21
Duckbootnoobmonk3y: Slap her with a trout.10:21
* noobmonk3y will10:21
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noobmonk3ygrrr and i really dont like my e7110:21
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noobmonk3yayone seen the long yellow led before?10:24
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fralscharge it some more!10:24
DuckbootAnyone know of a good alternative for xterm on the N900?10:25
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* noobmonk3y slaps frals with Duckboot 10:25
noobmonk3yDuckboot,  nope :(10:25
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noobmonk3ybut then i only just understand what x-term is :P10:26
Duckbootnoobmonk3y: ;-P10:26
DuckbootHmmm - Might have to port some shit then - But I'm a real N00b when it comes to GUI-shit.10:27
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noobmonk3yfrals, do you ever sleep?10:27
fralsi slept almost all night!10:28
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noobmonk3yhmmm would leaving my phone plugged into my turned off n900 last night, actually sucked the juice out of it? still confused.....10:29
noobmonk3y*laptop plugged into my turned off n90010:30
DuckbootGonna try out rxvt for a Terminal app10:30
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noobmonk3yoooo got nokia hands10:30
noobmonk3yyay and a desktop!10:31
fralstold you to charge it!10:31
* noobmonk3y hasnt10:31
noobmonk3ybut yeah 1% battery lol10:31
noobmonk3ywent to sleep with 80% :| :| :|10:31
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* noobmonk3y goes to work :(10:34
fralsyou were reencoding your homemade pron and seeding it as a torrent10:34
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anvith3hi all. i have tried to make a touch to speech application and for the touch part i used the code available for the raw input. the same one used to calibrate the screen. right now i am able to access only the window i create. how do i get access to the desktop? i know i have to use the window manager but not much luck with any documentation. can anybody here help put10:34
anvith3sorry help out*10:34
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blub_frals: you pointed me the the cpython code which inserts SMS into conversation10:35
blub_so does anyone know how to "poll" a file in /sys/?10:35
anvith3the code makes use of X11/Xlib10:35
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anvith3another doubt . is there anyway to make a window transparent in Xlib?10:36
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blub_I tried with pyinotify but since these filese seem to be opened-accessed-closed all the time this makes no sense10:36
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blub_in particular I want to read the ambient light intensity and when a treshold is reached execut something10:37
fralsblub: ah, np. :)10:37
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DuckbootNice - rxvt upp and running on my N90010:38
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DuckbootHmmm - Wasn't that useful really - But the default xterm seems to have crippled UTF-8 support.10:42
DuckbootI need an XTerm with _full_ UTF8 support10:42
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Appiahhalf UTF-8 Support?10:43
Appiahwhat's that like10:43
DuckbootAppiah: You know like inverted question-marks.10:43
jacekowskithat's font problem10:44
Duckbootjacekowski: So? Make xterm use another font?10:44
jacekowskithat's an option10:44
DuckbootI haven't really touch any font-settings for my xterm10:44
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DuckbootDamnit - My spelling is crap this morning.10:45
pigeonthe xterm on my n900 seems fine with utf-810:45
pigeonchinese japanese for instance are fine10:45
Duckbootpigeon: Probs some font-problem then.10:45
Duckbootxterm->ssh->screen->irssi = Fucked UTF-810:46
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jacekowskipigeon: well,10:46
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jacekowskiDuckboot: nope10:46
fralsDuckboot: screen -U?10:46
jacekowskiDuckboot: that's locales problem10:46
jacekowski-U is useless10:46
jacekowskiyou need working locales10:46
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jacekowski٩(-̮̮̃-̃) ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩(̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾)۶ ٩(-̮̮̃•̃)۶ ٩͡[๏̯͡๏]۶10:47
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jacekowskiwho saw that?10:47
nas_wat ?10:47
fralsi assume so10:48
fralsascii dudes waving and whatnot10:48
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nas_what is the charset , so I can set it on chatzilla ?10:48
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jacekowskifrals: they are not ascii dudes10:48
jacekowskifrals: they are unicode dudes10:49
fralswell, charcater dudes! ;P10:49
Duckbootjacekowski: I though as much - I really hates locales - All should use UTF8 - period10:49
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jacekowskiDuckboot: unicode is inefficient10:49
nas_once more paste ? ;)10:49
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jacekowskiDuckboot: these dudes are 101k long10:49
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jacekowski٩(-̮̮̃-̃) ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩(̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾)۶ ٩(-̮̮̃•̃)۶ ٩͡[๏̯͡๏]۶10:49
nas_arabic or something ? ...10:50
Duckbootjacekowski: Me using manhours in getting this to work from different systems is inefficient.10:50
jacekowskibesides, locales can be set per user10:50
jacekowskitake a look at your bashrc10:50
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Duckbootjacekowski: Bah - I think .bash_profile is a better place.10:53
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jacekowskithat file doesn't exist10:55
jacekowskiit's either .profile10:55
jacekowskior .bashrc10:55
jacekowskithere is no .bash_profile10:55
jacekowskibut you are free to use it anyways10:55
DuckbootI used .profile10:55
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Duckbootbrb - testing10:58
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mhmh phone beeing shipped on repair tomorrow :/11:02
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DuckbootFinally - screen -U did the trick11:02
Appiahmhmh: hmm11:02
fralsmay i say "told you so" now? ;D11:02
AppiahI read about that beeing a common problem11:02
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Duckbootdefutf8 in the .screenrc did not do the trick11:03
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Appiahhope my usb port does not fail11:03
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mhmhmmm.. just hope i get it fixed on the warranty.. they could easily claim it's damagedbecause of all the large scratched i got on it :)11:03
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DuckbootNetsplit (Rejoins)?11:04
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wazdhello people :)11:08
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wazdany Londoners in here?11:10
Stskeepsyou going?11:11
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wazdStskeeps: no, not me yet :)11:11
wazdStskeeps: my sister :)11:12
wazdStskeeps: o/ btw :)11:12
Stskeepslo wazd11:12
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mece Hello11:16
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pupnik_hi mece alone in a sea of lurkers11:22
DuckbootNot lurking - Trying to work on my other PC.11:25
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DuckbootHmmm - I was wondering - Last evening there was some mumbling about a "Community Driven Appstore" - That was actually a very good idea.11:30
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DuckbootSo that Dev could get a small token of gratitude for their work - Not much, but a small sum - It would surely make it more attractive to develop software for the N900.11:32
Appiahmaybe something flattr-ish?11:32
DuckbootHmmm - Not bad - *BRB* meeting.11:33
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* wazd still looking for londoners11:37
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blub_anyone got maemo specific answere to this:
meceAppiah, flattr could be pretty sweet for maemo people actually.11:45
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mecepupnik, heh so alone that I zoned out a bit there :D11:46
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mecewazd, check the n900 map thing.11:49
meceregarding flattr:
wazdmece: For what? :)11:49
Stskeepswazd: lists n900 / maemo peeps in various locations11:51
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wazdmece: Stskeeps: aaah, *that* map :)11:53
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alteregoI used dpu to upload a package to the builder last night, it's built okay, how do I push it to devel?11:56
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X-Fadealterego: To testing you mean?11:58
fralspackages submitted to builder should get auotimported to devel :o11:58
alteregoWell, it's not showing up in extras-devel ..11:58
X-Fadealterego: package name?11:58
MohammadAG51X-Fade, oh and was down yesterday11:59
MohammadAG51or the part of it11:59
alteregoI used dput during the downage ..11:59
X-FadeMohammadAG51: Yeah, static had issues.11:59
alteregoThough I'm sure that's not the problem :P11:59
alteregoThought it was that bloody cache :P11:59
alteregoMohammadAG51: you get about as much sleep as I do it seems :)11:59
X-Fadealterego: Pretty sure that that was not a complete build.12:00
MohammadAG51alterego, maybe this a PEBUCK too :P12:00
alteregoX-Fade: you know, I thought it looked odd.12:00
X-Fadealterego: I'll resubmit and see what happens.12:00
alteregoShall I resumbit?12:00
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MohammadAG51alterego, well, slept at 4, woke up at 1012:01
alterego6 hours is pretty good.12:01
MohammadAG51I stayed up for 2 days once12:01
alteregoI've ben awake about 3 hours :/12:01
mecegrr still no sign of my talk karma. I need my KARMAAAAAAAA12:02
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alteregomece: why? :P12:02
MohammadAG51infobot, karma MohammadAG12:03
infobotmohammadag has neutral karma12:03
meceinfobot, karma mece12:03
infobotmece has karma of 112:03
Appiahinfobot, karma Appiah12:03
infobotappiah has karma of 112:03
MohammadAG51infobot, racist12:03
MohammadAG51infobot, karma MohammadAG5112:03
Appiahyay this means I'm better then you MohammadAG51 !12:03
MohammadAG51Appiah, nah, it's just racist12:03
X-Fadealterego: build looks a lot better now.12:03
MohammadAG51infobot, fsck infobot12:04
alteregoX-Fade: thanks, Ithought it looked a bit funky last night ..12:04
MohammadAG51see? now it's ignoring me12:04
infobotrumour has it, racist is
infobotmohammadag51 has neutral karma12:04
infobote2fsck /dev/infobot : warning! filesystem contains helpdesk workers!12:04
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anvith3can anybody explain to me how to make a program a daemon on maemo 4 (diablo) . i have read the documentation but its a little overwhelming for me. i have found two python scripts for daemonizing a process. one is the start, stop, restart main file. the other has to be overloaded to execute my process. i can't make head or tail of where to install these files. any help will be appreciated. please.:)12:04
mecealterego, I was looking at the testing votes, and noticed that a friend of mine had almost 3 times the karma, and I couldn't figure out why. I've always felt really noobish when everywhere I look people have more karma than me. Well turns out one has to connect the dots between and talk. Which I hadn't done. So that's why my karma wasn't going anywhere.12:05
Appiahisnt there a maemo development channel?12:05
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MohammadAG51#maemo-devel, but most of the users there are here12:05
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alteregomece: yeah, I found that out a few days ago, not bothered doing it yet though :D12:06
AppiahI gave up trying to write a app yesterday12:06
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Appiahthe "SDK" is so confusing12:06
meceappiah, yeah, but all you see there are tumbleweed12:06
MohammadAG51it's piss easy to use12:06
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Appiahnothing I launched showed up12:06
X-Fade~seen qwerty1212:07
infobotqwerty12 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 186d 14h 43m 23s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'.12:07
X-FadeHmm what happened to him ;)12:07
DuckbootX-Fade: He bought an iPhone?12:07
MohammadAG51X-Fade, I doubt he's coming back, already asked him :(12:08
meceX-Fade, perhaps Khertan got angry and threw him out?12:08
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alteregoI thought he just changed his name ..12:08
meceMohammadAG51, wait what? are we talking #maemo or the community in general?12:08
meceMohammadAG51, oh porque?12:09
mecewhy? Did he say why?12:09
alteregoHow do I find out when the next extras-devel import will occur?12:09
MohammadAG51and I'm not even french12:09
mecealterego, by waiting :)12:09
MohammadAG51alterego, :5 and :3512:09
alteregoAh, 25 minute sthen12:10
MohammadAG51mece, nothing you can't guess :)12:10
MohammadAG51yep, you missed it again12:10
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X-Fadealterego: I was wondering about ruby1.8, can we get it in a promotable shape?12:11
X-Fadealterego: I see your name in there too ;)12:11
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alteregoSure, I'll work on it12:11
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X-FadeIt seems debian/optify -> auto needs to be added and a bugtracker url, or change section to development.12:12
MohammadAG51X-Fade, that only works for python apps right?12:13
X-FadeMohammadAG51: No?12:13
MohammadAG51last time I tried it with a C app it failed12:14
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X-FadeMohammadAG51: It should just work.12:15
MohammadAG51X-Fade, well it didn't :)12:15
meceX-Fade, MohammadAG51, Current wesnoth has that, and fails to optify. I've actually (poorly) packaged a new version that uses /opt/wesnoth/ as prefix. But haven't uploaded yet. am a little unsure about how to do it wisely.12:15
MohammadAG51i used maemo-optify in debian/rules12:15
MohammadAG51see X-Fade? :)12:16
X-FadeWell that is another option.12:16
meceMohammadAG51, no wait, wesnoth has a file containing the word auto.12:16
X-FadeFor simple things it should work, otherwise file a bug ;)12:16
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crashanddieman, gotta love static IPs12:24
crashanddierouter lost connection, rebooted, restarted wifi, and no disconnection from IRC. WIN!12:24
crashanddiemy life is awesome.12:25
Herwoodhehheh, sounds great ;)12:25
MohammadAG51<crashanddie> man, gotta love static IPs12:26
MohammadAG51except for IP bans12:26
Appiahwhy would you get banned MohammadAG51 ? are you doing bad stuff on ze internetz?12:26
MohammadAG51Appiah, cause most users are racist, take infobot for example12:27
MohammadAG51or if I piss off crashanddie12:27
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Duckboot  <- Discuss12:31
Appiahwhats wrong with the Ovistore?12:32
Appiah(have not used it12:32
crashanddieDuckboot: you don't need the ovi store12:32
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crashanddieDuckboot: paypal + licence key works great, you know.12:32
sivangmorning all12:33
MiXu-_Duckboot: I don't see how another small time appstore would help12:33
thpDuckboot: publish your app as non-free on Maemo Extras + do the paypal thingie12:34
alteregoMohammadAG51: fancy having a look at this release and seeing if you think it's in a fine state to go to testing? Not sure if I've missed any control fields or sommat.12:34
MiXu-_I've successfully bought stuff from Ovi on N900. I don't see the problem12:34
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DuckbootPlease ppl - I don't develop anything. I tought of this as a way of making the interest of making apps greater.12:35
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ShapeshifterDoes someone know how I can make an application grab the keyboard explicitely? I'm running ssh -X to my desktop, where I launch nxclient. For some reason, I can't do any keyboard input in all of nxclient. meaning the configuration and login dialog as well as the remote session.12:35
sivangI don't understand the problem with OVI store as well.12:35
Duckbootsivang: No python apps - Just as an example.12:36
Shapeshiftermouse presses however do work.12:36
thpsivang: they only accept companies as developers, no python apps, etc..12:36
MiXu-_Does Apple accept other than companies?12:36
DuckbootMiXu-_: Yes12:36
Appiahwell yes12:37
sivangthp: I'm sure that if someone would have approached them to get to publish there, as a sole developer, he'd get it. They are quite kind and helpful.12:37
alteregoWhich is odd, with them wanting LGPL for PySide12:37
sivangI think PySide stuff would eventually get accepted into OVI, it is a matter of time as I see it.12:37
sivangdo apple accept Python apps onto the stoe?12:37
X-FadePython is not a supported runtime, so no Ovi for you.12:37
alteregoI'm just wondering if it might have something to do with source availability.12:37
thpsivang: well we don't want to compare ovi store with apple's app store here ;)12:38
sivangis there an app store that accpets python apps?12:38
sivangthis is important to the argument.12:38
thpthey don't support writing python apps for their platform12:38
sivangthp: so it is a Coincidence that they fund PySide development?12:39
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thpsivang: well, i hope they support it in harmattan times. there was a thread about this on the pymaemo mailing list some days ago12:40
sivangthp: and have people on the Nokia payroll doing hardwork and sprinting to make it better and more Qt following?12:40
sivangthp: for example, in the latest release you can now use proper qt style slots and signals.12:40
thpthread starts here: and the reply from a nokia employee
sivangthp: something that was done (together with bug squashing spree) in the last sprint or so.12:41
* sivang looks12:41
sivangthp: right, so Matti just said this is the case for Maemo, doesn't mean that it will stay that way.12:41
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sivangthp: the forum are VERY responsive to us as a community (talking from my personal contribution experience)12:42
sivangthp: expect good things :)12:42
sivangthp: for Maemo, use extras12:42
sivangI guess12:42
thpi do. just saying ovi store *right now* doesn't accept python apps ;)12:42
MohammadAG51alterego, oh, an "enabled" button12:43
meceX-Fade, do the package maintainer request go through you?12:43
alteregoMohammadAG51: :P12:43
X-Fademece: Yes, if there is not a maintainer for the package already.12:43
alteregoSomething wrong with my button?!12:43
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sivangthp: btw, if you demonstrate substantial contribution, you can get accepted to publish apps on OVI, given your app ideas are interesting and mix up with the OVI approach and scope.12:44
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meceX-Fade, well there is.It's for wesnoth-data, I was wondering if you could make it so right away since I'm already maintainer of wesnoth12:44
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X-Fademece: refresh ;)12:44
alteregoMohammadAG51: there are other items in the change log :P12:44
sivangthp: not being a company, I wonder if that's the same for Apple. (Should be for their sake :-))12:45
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MohammadAG51alterego, well I'm currently installed a s***load of python dependencies12:45
meceX-Fade, cheers :)12:45
thpsivang: they (ovi) are in the process of changing it, i think. just not there yet.12:45
MohammadAG51not sure what ecactly frals/noobmonk3y added in their new updates...12:45
MohammadAG512 upgraded, 17 newly installed, 0 to remove and 13 not upgraded.12:46
sivangthp: yep, infrastructural things take time.12:46
X-Fadethp: But even then you need to adhere to the preferred api. Plain Qt or qtm, nothing more.12:46
crashanddiethat made my day:
achipatoo bad there isn't anything that does NOT fall under that category with Ovi :D12:46
thpX-Fade: that's why I love extras so much :) apart from the very personal support I can get there ;)12:46
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pupnik_new Knots2 multimedia streaming package in testing.  try it and vote!12:47
mececrashanddie, I dun geddit. What does the first C&C refer to?12:47
crashanddiemece: read the summary12:48
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MohammadAG51command and conquer?12:48
achipaX-Fade: you have to admit that leaving out PySide *is* a hefty 12 gauge shot in one's foot12:48
MiXu-_extras is a nice idea, but there's so much stuff that if you have extras, extras-testing and extras-devel repos active it takes frigging ages to do anything in the app manager.12:48
MiXu-_apt is pants if you ask me.12:48
MohammadAG51rpm sucks12:48
MiXu-_For a phone at least12:48
* MohammadAG51 hides12:48
X-Fadeachipa: Only supported runtime on all platforms is Qt ;)12:48
MohammadAG51but seriously12:48
MohammadAG51apt is much faster than rpm12:48
MiXu-_I don't know rpm, so no idea how that would work.12:49
achipaMiXu-_: there are caching/front-end apps to solve that, but they didn't think we'll have this much packages :)12:49
MiXu-_yeah, I suppose so12:49
fralsMohammadAG51: ?12:49
SpeedEvilX-Fade: Is there any way to break out repos from stats? - for an arbitrary example. That is not only - as the tag at the end might lead you to expect - extras. It includes testing, and devel.12:49
MiXu-_achipa: But that's just dumb design if you ask me12:49
mececrashanddie, LOOOOL12:49
X-FadeSpeedEvil: Extras* :)12:49
X-FadeSpeedEvil: Everything extras..12:50
achipaX-Fade: I mean, it kind of defeats the purpose to rewrite a bindings because of licensing, and then treat it equally as the other binding that had the 'problematic' license :)12:50
MohammadAG51alterego, nope, still have to clear it myself (status)12:50
X-Fadeachipa: Python is not, and never has been a supported runtime.12:50
SpeedEvilX-Fade: Indeed - it quite ignores the repo - 'repo=fish' ifives the same12:50
achipaX-Fade: then why bother with a LGPL python binding ?12:50
MohammadAG51frals nvm, it was prolly noobmonk3y12:50
achipa(when you already have a GPL one)12:51
fralsMohammadAG51: 1 new is prolly statusmenu-fmms unless you had it, rest is noobmonk3s fault im sure!12:51
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X-Fadeachipa: Haven't seen anything in MeeGo about python runtime support.12:51
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achipaX-Fade: it's nowhere nearly certain yet, from what I gather12:51
X-Fadeachipa: But I guess it is just a nice to have atm.12:51
tekojoachipa: did you read the whole licensing thing?12:52
MohammadAG51frals, he switched to 4.7.3...12:52
MohammadAG51just checked the control file12:52
achipatekojo: for Ovi, for PySide or for PyQt ?12:52
mece4.7.3 ftfw!12:52
fralsyeah he didnt know which version was the proper one because ppl had problems with older so i told him to just take the newest :P12:52
tekojopyside pyqt12:52
alteregoMohammadAG51: can you tell me exactly what you're doing?12:52
MohammadAG51alterego, my life is non of your business12:53
fralsalso, bah at 20kg max weight when traveling12:53
MohammadAG51in all seriousness12:53
MohammadAG51i'm pausing the song :)12:53
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alteregoMohammadAG51: and you're waiting five seconds? :P12:53
achipatekojo: errm... I wish to believe I have :) If you mean the LGPL vs commercial license thing12:53
* mece looks on, as suddenly the #maemo discussions take a turn for the weird.12:53
X-Fadefrals: Just buy more weight then?12:54
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X-Fadefrals: Usually cheaper when you do that in advance.12:54
fralsX-Fade: yeah, but still, bah!12:54
tekojopyqt is gpl + commercial, which is kind of a pain if you are a company12:54
tekojook if you are an individual12:54
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sivangright, but if you want to developer something propreitary12:54
mecetekojo, so does a one man army count as a individual or company?12:54
MohammadAG51alterego, yeah12:55
* mece has trouble being serious, it appears.12:55
achipatekojo: not at all sure. My feedback tells the opposite. Most companies are far more fond of a cheap commercial license than LGPL12:55
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tekojomece: depends whether it's a .com army12:55
achipabut then again I might have just talked to the wrong people :)12:55
sivangachipa: how come?12:55
SpeedEvilmece: One man can be a company.12:55
SpeedEvilmece: You just need to file the papers.12:55
tekojoachipa: well, it's about choices isn't it?12:55
SpeedEvilIn some cases, you don't even need to file papers.12:55
meceSpeedEvil, I know I know.12:55
alteregoMohammadAG51: well, I don't know what you're doing, but it's working fine for me :P12:56
meceSpeedEvil, it was a failed attempt at humor.12:56
sivangSpeedEvil: there are places like this :)12:56
MohammadAG51alterego, another example of racism12:56
achipatekojo: sure. though both pyside and pyqt getting the cold shoulder for ovi certainly does not help overall choices12:56
sivangMohammadAG51: hehe12:56
SpeedEvilmece: I'm sorry, humor not found.12:57
mecealterego, yeah, stop being racist... wait what?12:57
* SpeedEvil insmods coffee.ko12:57
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meceZOMBIES! RUN!!12:57
* MohammadAG51 rmmods sugar.ko12:57
* mece goes to lunch.12:57
tekojoachipa: Ovi will learn in time12:57
MohammadAG51alterego, i demand a refund12:58
MohammadAG51your app is broken12:58
MiXu-_Didn't they promise that there will be some new stuff in Ovi soon?12:58
alteregoMohammadAG51: when did you change your status? Was it during a song?12:58
achipasivang: long story short, with commercial they feel safe, plus they can count on support. With LGPL there is a lot of FUD which makes them uneasy, regardless of the actual situation12:58
alteregoI've just noticed a bug :P12:58
Shapeshifterman this behaviour of windows not getting focus unless explicity doing XSetInputFocus() is so god damn annyoing. I can't even get the window to get keyboard focus using wmctrl.12:59
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MohammadAG51alterego, I just paused the song, and waited, and waited... and waited12:59
achipatekojo: I really-really hope that will be the case (not just python, but in general approach) otherwise all is for naught :)12:59
alteregoShould be instantaneous.12:59
MiXu-_If you really want to put an app in ovi store starting a company isn't really a big deal12:59
alteregoAnd like I said, works for me :P12:59
alteregoAre you sure you're using 0.2 ?12:59
MohammadAG51alterego, and like i said, you're racist13:00
alteregoMohammadAG51: oh, wait, did you do an upgrade?13:00
MohammadAG51no, i'm using PR1.213:00
Appiahplaying the racecard all day13:00
X-Fadeachipa: First priority is to make python a supported runtime then.13:00
alteregoMohammadAG51: you might have to stop and start the daemon ..13:00
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alteregoIf you're using one of the older versions whilst we were messing with 0.1 ..13:00
sivangX-Fade: doesn't pr1.2 come with pyside runtime?13:00
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MohammadAG51alterego, how user friendly...13:00
alteregoMohammadAG51: extras-devel :P13:00
sivangi.e. one of the upgrade features?13:01
X-Fadesivang: Maemo has never come with python.13:01
* sivang might be confused.13:01
sivangX-Fade: I see.13:01
MohammadAG51~flash alterego13:01
achipaX-Fade: that's what I mean by general approach - if we're all open source friendly, there has to be a clear way of introducing such libraries/runtimes into Ovi13:01
* infobot starts a firmware update on alterego, then pulls the plug halfway through13:01
X-FadeOther than some SDK dependencies which made it a bit unclear.13:01
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achipa(again, not just python, that goes for anything lib* in Extras, too)13:01
sivanginfobot: hehe13:01
infobothmm... hehe is eheh13:01
X-Fadeachipa: Set your goals small.13:01
sivangachipa: go ahead and suggest it13:01
X-Fadeachipa: python first, if you get that in then continue.13:02
achipasivang: I have no Ovi contacts. All Nokians generally agree but Ovi seems like a high tower in the distance, nobody goes there13:02
sivangachipa: but I do think that things like that should remain to the scrunity of the store provider, as is probably for any other big vendor.13:02
MohammadAG51alterego, using ovi or some other crap?13:03
achipaX-Fade: sure, but the only real solution is for this not to happen on a 'fiat lux' base. But I agree, baby steps and all13:03
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alteregoMohammadAG51: ?13:03
MohammadAG51i wouldn't doubt that it's telepathy's UI that's stuck13:03
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X-Fadeachipa: First get it in the official sdk, which for MeeGo is still a bit of an unknown.13:04
ShapeshifterHas anyone ever tried a different WM on the n900?13:05
Shapeshifterlike say, a tiler?13:05
SpeedEvilTiler would be for most apps - poor13:05
SpeedEvilHaving said that - I really want the ability for hildon-desktop to 'swallow' apps13:06
MohammadAG51i want non full windows13:06
SpeedEvilSo that if I have an app that would work well at widget size - I can create a widget with that app window.13:06
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SpeedEvilThe app starts. The window manager sets the size to (say) 200*200 and puts it on the desktop.13:07
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alteregoWell, I'm going to have a shower.13:07
SpeedEvilThis happens at wm startup13:07
achipaX-Fade: matti says he's championing in getting it in for harmattan, I ensured him of our full community/council/commercial support :)13:08
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sivangSpeedEvil: so you can see progress at the same time without needing to switch between apps?13:08
SpeedEvilsivang: no.13:09
X-Fadeachipa: I'm all for it, most of Extras* apps are python based it seems.13:09
SpeedEvilsivang: I mean yes13:09
SpeedEvilsivang: basically - if you want a 10*10 char xterm on the desktop, it can just be there.13:09
sivangSpeedEvil: like on a desktop13:09
achipaX-Fade: it makes perfect sense as it has the lowest entry barrier13:09
SpeedEvilsivang: It won't perhaps accept keyboard input.13:09
sivangSpeedEvil: focus needs to be determined like in a regular deskotp13:10
SpeedEvilLow entry barriers can be bad.13:10
sivangI reckon13:10
* SpeedEvil was never very good at limbo.13:10
SpeedEvilsivang: That depends.13:10
SpeedEvilsivang: If you just say that this sort of widget can only take taps/clicks for example.13:10
SpeedEvilDoes any widget ever get keyboard focus?13:11
sivangSpeedEvil: right so you can full screen it when you see something new arrived13:11
sivangSpeedEvil: good question, I guess it gets it with the rest of the widgets of the main program window13:11
SpeedEvilsivang: I've never seen a widget that takes keyboard input.13:11
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sivangSpeedEvil: you mean mobile widgets?13:12
SpeedEvilsivang: I mean the n900 widgets13:12
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pupnik  knots2 in testing again13:14
X-Fadepupnik: Evil paste ;)13:15
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X-FadeLetting people directly vote up is not really nice.13:16
pupnikoh hehe it is13:16
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pupnikdon't click that13:17
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wazdany londoners in here? :)13:25
wazdsorry for spam :)13:25
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sivangpupnik: I was not logged at least :)13:28
sivangpupnik: but I clicked13:28
* SpeedEvil is about 500 miles from being a londoner.13:29
DuckbootHmmm - The ball is rolling?
Stskeepsthe main problem is who hosts the incoming money. ie, trust.13:30
Stskeepsand that gets difficult over time13:30
DuckbootStskeeps: Get a agreement with paypal?13:30
Stskeepsexcept paypal is notoriously known for fucking you over :)13:31
Stskeepsone credit card dispute and your store could be stalled13:31
pupniksivang: knots2 deserves promotion imo.  check it out sometime13:31
DuckbootStskeeps: Well - there must be othere similar services.13:32
MohammadAG51never had problems with paypal13:33
Stskeepsand imagine the uproar if transfers from that guy handling the money gets delayed..13:33
DuckbootStskeeps: I know, I know.13:33
SpeedEvilI saw something on planet.13:34
Stskeepsnot saying it is a bad idea.13:34
SpeedEvilA couple of weeks ago.13:34
SpeedEvilIs tehre an archive of links?13:34
Stskeepsi kinda hope someone (personally) would be doing a similar concept, it's just hard to do in practice13:34
Stskeepsand then there's the whole liability issue..13:34
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DuckbootStskeeps: Mmmm - That's why there must be something like a council running things.13:35
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SpeedEvilIt was the '10 million apps' post - anyone have a link?13:35
Stskeepsalso, can you trust the stuff people to upload things they actually have copyright for?13:35
sivangpupnik: media streaming server on the N900?13:35
Stskeepsand who pays the bills if the site gets sued? :P13:35
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SpeedEvil1M downloads I believe.13:35
SpeedEvilStskeeps: Clearly, put it on freenet.13:36
sivangSpeedEvil: Wonder what's that obsession people have with London :)13:36
sivangSpeedEvil: surely a nice place, well, very nice13:36
StskeepsSpeedEvil: if someone is a money handling point, they're a target..13:36
sivangSpeedEvil: oh okay, I love london13:36
DuckbootStskeeps: There, there - You must take your happy pills - No, seriously - I know there is several issues which have to be ironed out before even thinking about launching something like it, but it's doable I think.13:37
StskeepsDuckboot: nah, just giving friendly advise, as i had this conversation already with someone :)13:37
pigeoncool, mobilehotspot works on the n900, though i'm a bit puzzled that i need to manually set ip for the other device, is it supposed to be like that?13:37
SpeedEvilArgh - this is annoying.13:37
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Trewaswhat's the problem with ovi store? they have been very slow starting but at least they are now selling stuff13:38
MohammadAG51 lol13:39
DuckbootStskeeps: The company which I work work makes Varnish. And we've split out a part of the company, making a separate company which is living of revenue from software with a BSD-license - I have been in the business for a while, and have some ppl around me, whom I can seek for advice.13:40
StskeepsDuckboot: fair enough13:40
DuckbootTrewas: Only companies as allowed into their store13:40
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achipaMohammadAG51: that's normal... it was the same with the ipad, speculation always drives upwards13:40
DaveR53Hi all13:41
ShapeshifterHow can I make an app grab the keyboard?13:41
MohammadAG51achipa, shares went down13:41
Shapeshifterusing wmctrl -a didn't work, the "trick" with the powerbutton that works with easy debian didn't work.13:42
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achipaMohammadAG51: that's what I'm saying, in case od apple products, speculation drives share price up, and then they fall back on the announcement13:42
achipait's a pattern, really13:42
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Chrome__can n900 send files via IR?13:57
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* mece has a full tommy, the food was yummy. Now back to acting like a dummy. *afternoonpoetry*13:59
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DuckbootDamnit - I cannot seem to get any work done today - My head is spinning around with ideas on the store thingy for Maemo/Meego.14:03
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ljsdofuynsdfufuheat some food14:04
mecefor those not really selling apps, I would love to see or something similar used on maemo.org14:04
Duckbootljsdofuynsdfufuh: Just ate lunch, so that's not a problem.14:04
SpeedEvilChrome__: No14:04
ljsdofuynsdfufuhdoes the same n900 work in all countries?14:04
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: no14:04
meceDuckboot, cuppajoe!14:04
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SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: There is different firmware - for example - in india - the FM transmitter is disabled.14:04
mecelsjwhatever, yes.14:05
ljsdofuynsdfufuhoh, what should I look out for if I'm buying one in the US and then traveling?14:05
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: I'm unsure if it differs in hardware - probbaly not. As I understand it, the hardware is the same globally14:05
ljsdofuynsdfufuhI'll mostly be in europe14:05
ljsdofuynsdfufuhSo I'll be able to us 3g everywhere that has it?14:05
Duckbootmece: Hehe - Got a Espresso Machine 5m from my desk.14:05
meceDuckboot, make me some!½14:05
Duckbootmece: Ristretto, Lungo.... What is your choice?14:06
meceDuckboot, Lungo. Damn. Now I'm jealous.14:06
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: no14:06
meceOr, hey I think we have one here too..14:06
ljsdofuynsdfufuhoh, why not?14:06
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: It does not support some 3G networks due to their frequency14:06
Venemoljsdofuynsdfufuh: just the european 3G standard14:06
Duckbootmece: You see - seek it out.14:06
ljsdofuynsdfufuhso there is the US3g, euro3g, and what else?14:07
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: For example, much of US and canada cannot do 3G with the n900 - or cannoy do it with some carriers.14:07
Venemoin the US, there are several other "standards" that are not compatible with anything else in the world14:07
meceljs... , T-Mobile US works.14:07
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: Japan too. It won't work in japan14:07
mece2g will work anywhere though.14:07
Venemoyeah, Japan has its own standards, too14:07
SpeedEvilmece: Not in japan14:07
meceSpeedEvil, damn.14:07
ljsdofuynsdfufuhis tmo the best provider for the n900 in the US?14:07
meceSpeedEvil, so this phone will never work anywhere in Japan?14:08
Venemowell, it *may* work in Japan if you find a carrier that uses SIM cards14:08
SpeedEvilmece: I believe that to be so.14:08
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meceljs..., the only one that supports 3g on N900.14:08
SpeedEvilmece: I haven't really investigated very hard, as I do not imagine going to japan any time soon.14:08
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meceSpeedEvil, I remember hearing that there is one carrier that supports... might be bs though.14:09
ljsdofuynsdfufuhso how much should I be paying for a n900?14:09
SpeedEvilThough I am quite willing to test it for you mece if you paypal me the cash for a round-trip.14:09
Venemospend only as much as you don't regret14:09
meceSpeedEvil, well, let me think about it.14:09
meceSpeedEvil, no.14:09
Venemoif you don't mind used stuff, the best choice would be that14:10
Venemothere are several WTS threads in TMO14:10
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vldcnstspeaking of US and 3G, what kind of dl/ul speeds do they have there?14:10
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ljsdofuynsdfufuhyeah, is the 3g on n900 much slower than the rest?14:11
meceHey I read that an iPhone is "$199" or something in the usa. But if I understand correctly, that is not the actual price. Which means that the N900 is "0€" here in finland. Pretty cool huh?14:11
SpeedEvilmece: It's OK - any other moeny transfer service would work too, if you have a problem with paypal :)14:11
ljsdofuynsdfufuhor the same as the rest of Tmo - which is about the same14:11 the rest14:11
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SpeedEvilAs a useless datapoint, I get 150kbytes/s from the sofa in the UK on t-mobile.14:11
meceljs..., umm? N900 on T-mobile is as fast as other phones on T-Mobile.14:11
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Venemoljsdofuynsdfufuh: it supports the best current HSPA standard14:12
Venemoso it mostly depends on the network you choose14:12
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ljsdofuynsdfufuhhmm, mece, how is it free?14:12
ljsdofuynsdfufuhI'm going to be around finland soon, might actually stop by there14:12
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ljsdofuynsdfufuhI live in Chicago though14:12
SpeedEvilerr - I think mece is confused.14:13
meceljs, because iPhone fee is a subsidized price. AKA you pay that, and then something per month for x amounts of months. Apparently everyone forget to mention this.14:13
SpeedEvilI believe he's referring to the fact that iphone has a subsidised cost.14:13
SpeedEvilIphone is _not_ free in finland.14:13
alteregoI didn't think the iPhone wasa free anywhere :P14:13
SpeedEvilThe contract may not subsidise the cost of the phone, but the phone hardware is therefore much more expensive as an up-front cost.14:14
ljsdofuynsdfufuhis the n900 cheaper in europe?14:14
alteregoMuch cheaper in the US14:14
meceSpeedEvil, if you calim tha tthe iphone cost $199 in the USA, then by the same logic the N900 cost 0€ in Finland.14:14
mecegood typing there.14:14
MohammadAG51alterego, where's my bugfix you racist $SWEARWORD14:15
ShadowJKtotal cost for iphone in .fi is about 550€, if you buy the subsidized iphone from the operator on cheapest contract, then after 6 months switch to a cheap phone and chep contract and pay the remaining monthly fees for iphone (18 * something). 6 months and 550€ for unlocked iphone14:15
alteregoMohammadAG51: just uninstall it, make sure it's not still running14:15
alteregoThen reinstall it :P14:15
MohammadAG51shove a stop in prerm14:16
Venemocan someone recommend me a decent IRC client for Windows?14:16
alteregoMohammadAG51: I have now :P14:16
ljsdofuynsdfufuhokay, well the n900 is going to be about $400 unless you think there is a better place to get it14:16
alteregoIt's in 0.2, it just wasn't in 0.114:16
AppiahVenemo: no , use a shell14:16
alteregoWhich is why it's not working for you :P14:16
meceShadowJK, yes exactly, but the iphone is claimed to cost $199, which is what you have to pay for it to get it in the first place apparently. And 0€ is what you have to pay to get an N900 in Finland. :)14:16
AppiahVenemo: or mIRC14:16
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meceljs..., $400 is a great price!14:17
ljsdofuynsdfufuhtmo users, what plan do you recommend for the n900?14:17
alteregoOf course, you could just stop and start the service ..14:17
ShadowJKone with unlimited data14:17
meceljs, unlimited data. All else is redundant imo.14:17
ljsdofuynsdfufuhmece, it just seems like such a device shouldn't be more than a good netbook (my top model eee pc was only $350)14:17
SpeedEvilI'm using 1G/mo data with t-mobile UK14:17
VenemoI'm currently using mIRC, but it seems that it is properitary crap14:17
AppiahThere is BitchX for windows I belive14:18
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meceVenemo, I use pidgin. Works fine.14:18
ljsdofuynsdfufuhso Tmo will cover all 3g in europe that the n900 can pickup anyway?14:18
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: the hardware is somewhat more costly to make. The assembly is quite expensive at these scales.14:18
Appiahthere is also irssi for windows..14:18
SpeedEvil1G/mo data with for 20 quid for 6 months.14:18
ShadowJKljsdofuynsdfufuh, coverage-wise N900 supports every operator in europe, 3g and 2g.14:18
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ShadowJKBut tmobile usa is probably going to make you a very poor man if you use tmobile germany or tmobile uk.14:19
ljsdofuynsdfufuhah, so what does that mean I should purchase in terms of tmo plans,14:19
meceSpeedEvil, a few years back a phone company called me and asked if I was interested in a data plan. I told them I had unlimited. They said, well it might be cheaper to have a limited if you don't use that much. I asked how do I know how much I use?14:19
ljsdofuynsdfufuhwell speedevil just said tmo uk is cheap as hell14:19
* Duckboot got a Unlimited dataplan atm - If I pass 3Gb, I get restrained to 128kbits14:19
meceSpeedEvil, they told me to do this and that (Nokia N95) and I checked.14:20
Appiahwow... unlimited14:20
Appiahand then restrained14:20
meceSpeedEvil, then I asked, so what do you have that's cheaper than unlimited that covers 9Gb /month?14:20
SpeedEvilmece: :)14:20
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meceSpeedEvil, turns out it was cheaper with the unlimited. who knew?14:20
Venemookay, thx everyone about the recommendations14:20
ShadowJKljsdofuynsdfufuh, yeah sure, I'm just warning you not to expect that Tmobile USA will be as cheap to use in the UK as Tmobile UK is to use in UK...14:20
SpeedEvilmece: I completely agree. If you are out and about all the time with the phone, then 1G/mo would be hard. But for me - for most of the time I'm in wifi range.14:21
ShadowJKIf you get a tmobile UK plan im the UK, sure..14:21
ljsdofuynsdfufuhshadowJK, why would tmo UK charge so much when speedevil says his bill is only 20/6mo for 1g/mo in the UK?14:21
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SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: To be dair - that plan is very well hidden on the website.14:21
Venemoanother question:14:22
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: It's only also available on pay-as-you-go14:22
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meceVenemo, shoot14:22
* SpeedEvil shoots mece.14:22
meceSpeedEvil, wait, not you!14:22
VenemoI followed the steps at and still, my N900 disregards the value I set14:22
ljsdofuynsdfufuhso, maybe it would be cheaper to use Sims from euro providers when visiting?14:22
Duckboot"I shot the Sheriff......"14:22
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: Certainly.14:22
Venemoit still updates itself on every connection14:22
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: However - rates within the EU may be bad.14:22
ShadowJKUsing foreign SIMs is financial suicide14:23
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: You likelly need to use each countries SIM14:23
meceVenemo, did you reboot?14:23
SpeedEvilIf you plan on using lots of data14:23
Venemoyes, several times since then14:23
meceVenemo, interesting. I haven't really tested that though.14:23
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: Are you visiting one or two countries, or are you doing a grand tour or something?14:24
ljsdofuynsdfufuhhmm, it seems like kind of a hastle to find a new sim everytime I'm in a new country14:24
ljsdofuynsdfufuhI'll mostly be in sweden, but I'll probably be in about 5 other countries14:24
ljsdofuynsdfufuhat least*14:24
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: There is generally very little roaming.14:25
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: Some providers provide a 'generous' roaming data plan for extra. But it tends to be around 50 meg a month.14:25
SpeedEvilAnything over that may be in the region of 5 euros a meg14:25
ljsdofuynsdfufuhmeaning... you need a different sim for every euro country?14:25
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ShadowJKevery country, period14:26
ShadowJKwhether it's in europe or not makes little difference14:26
SpeedEvilPretty much.14:26
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ljsdofuynsdfufuhhmmm, so I should get a pay as you go tmo plan in the US, then when going to each euro country get the cheapest sim-based provider therein14:26
Venemoljsdofuynsdfufuh: seems to be a good idea to me14:26
ljsdofuynsdfufuh(so I'm not paying for US tmo while Im gone for 2months)14:26
SpeedEvilIn at least the vast majority of countries - using mobile data on a foreign SIM is for the rich only.14:27
ShadowJKwhenever your phone is roaming, the operators switch to the "bleed 'em dry and then some"-pricelist14:27
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Venemoljsdofuynsdfufuh: you'll have to buy an unlocked N900 for that, though14:27
ljsdofuynsdfufuhthought they were all unlocked14:27
ljsdofuynsdfufuhat least in the US14:27
VenemoI dunno14:27
Venemojust pointing it out14:27
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satmdthe one sold in austria, too14:28
FIQErrors were encountered while processing:14:28
FIQ /var/cache/apt/archives/libxss1_1%3a1.1.3-1maemo1_armel.deb14:28
VenemoI've never been to the US, so I can't really tell14:28
FIQE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)14:28
satmdthe n900 *has* a unlock function14:28
ljsdofuynsdfufuhvenemo, so you're saying which part of that requires unlocked?14:28
FIQThat doesn't really make sense for me14:28
satmdhidden in the settings panel's dropdown menu14:28
meceFIQ, close ham..?14:28
ljsdofuynsdfufuhhaving multiple sims?14:28
Venemoljsdofuynsdfufuh: I mean that it should not be locked to a single carrier14:28
ljsdofuynsdfufuhoh yeah14:28
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: For example -
meceVenemo, ljsdofuynsdfufuh, N900 is always unlocked.14:28
ljsdofuynsdfufuharen't you lucky... never been to the US, lol14:28
Venemomece - okay, thx14:29
Venemoljsdofuynsdfufuh - why am I lucky for that? :P14:29
ljsdofuynsdfufuhpartial joke14:29
SpeedEvil$10/MB for outside of the EU rates.14:29
satmdany recommendation for a map application that can import .kml (or .netxml/.gpsxml?)14:30
ljsdofuynsdfufuhoutside EU? meaning everywhere inside of europe has sensible rates?14:30
Venemoand what is the best IRC client for the N900?14:30
meceVenemo, xchat14:30
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: Well - If you consider $2/MB sensible.14:30
Venemois "IRC protocol plugin for Conversations and Contacts" good?14:30
ljsdofuynsdfufuhouch, so I'll have to figure out when i get there which provider in each country i should use14:31
satmdVenemo: the messages of nickserv/global & co can be annoying after a while14:31
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: Pretty much. If you're staying with friends, you may be able to get 'free' SIMs sent to them for you to pickup.14:31
satmdthat's why I don't use the contacts plugin14:31
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ljsdofuynsdfufuhthat's interesting14:32
achipaljsdofuynsdfufuh: or simply ask them to buy you the cheapest prepaids, as they probably know best which provider has the best/cheapest coverage in that area14:33
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: + boosters - internet boosters - and then you can have a gig a month for the rate I mentioned above14:34
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ljsdofuynsdfufuhgreat, thanks14:34
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ljsdofuynsdfufuhonly if im in the UK, though, right14:34
Venemosatmd - still, is it buggy or bad? I think I would prefer conversations integration to a separate app14:35
satmdno, it's fine14:35
satmdthere's just no way to filter messages14:35
Venemowhy would I want to filter them?14:36
Venemosorry, I'm new to IRC :)14:36
satmdwell, e.g. global will message you each time you connecz14:36
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Venemosatmd - thx for the info14:37
satmdso will also maybe antispam systems and nickserv14:38
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achipaljsdofuynsdfufuh: but if you have the option, ALWAYS buy local SIMs, combine maybe with SkypeIn & redirects and you are in cheap-call nirvana.14:44
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Venemois it possible to create my own image with Flasher?14:45
alteregoHow stable is host mode now? And how user "friendly"?14:45
Venemoso that I can create an image, go crazy with stuff from devel, and then reflash with my own image?14:45
Appiahnot user friendly at all14:45
alteregoHeh :)14:45
achipaljsdofuynsdfufuh: but there are also special travel SIMs that are universal, for example I got for free. Rids me of roaming for incoming calls on airports at least :)14:46
ljsdofuynsdfufuhthanks achipa14:46
Venemoalterego: it isn't. it is coming very quickly, though14:46
Appiah(you still need a custom kernel) right?14:46
alteregoVenemo: is there a summary of steps involved now?14:46
* mfayzull brays, for a change14:46
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ljsdofuynsdfufuhI'll check it out - you'd think the n900 would have dual sim14:46
Appiaheverything is documented on
ljsdofuynsdfufuhI've even seen quad sim, which looks pretty 'l33t'14:47
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: Dual SIM is rare on 3G phones14:47
SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: Simply as the radios are expensive14:47
Appiahcan you even use the sims at the same time on dual sim?14:47
Appiahdont you have to reboot?14:47
meceachipa, awesome work with 4.7.3. Very happy that it's in extras now :)14:47
achipamece: thx, glad to hear :)14:48
achipawe should have QtMobility soon, too, and then we can really party :)14:48
meceachipa, are you waiting for upstream?14:49
achipamece: yep14:49
meceachipa, got an eta?14:50
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timeless_mbpdoes anyone here use ovi store?14:52
mecetimeless_mbp, I've downloaded a few apps. What's up?14:52
AppiahI dont want to register on nokia for some reason14:52
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timeless_mbpbug 1060014:52
povbotBug Link from Ovi Store only works the second time14:52
RST38hConservations have warned that the World Cup could finish off a rare South African vulture because locals believe smoking the beasts' brains will help them win big in footie-related bets14:53
timeless_mbpAppiah: i haven't and refuse14:53
SpeedEviltimeless_mbp: I entered my username and put in a bogus email and phone, not realising it would require it.14:53
timeless_mbpSpeedEvil: heh14:53
SpeedEviltimeless: and now I can't delete the account.14:53
timeless_mbpso now the account is reserved?14:53
mecetimeless_mbp, never tried that.14:53
timeless_mbpmece: could you?14:53
achipamece: not really... but I have seen 'first signs' in the VCS so it's not years off certainly14:53
AppiahSpeedEvil: haha14:53
timeless_mbphis steps suck14:53
timeless_mbpthere should be about 20 steps14:54
timeless_mbpincluding specifying an actual application14:54
SpeedEviltimeless: yes. I have considered being annoying, and using the provisions of the data protections act to get them to correct my data.14:54
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RST38hAnyone here using OpenGLES???14:57
AppiahRST38h: for what14:58
jacekowskii've been playing a lot of OpenGLES games14:58
jacekowskidoes it count?14:58
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alteregoRST38h: I tried, and failed :P14:58
alteregoI think I might have another go sohortly though, as I'm pretty f*cking bored ^.^14:59
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sx0njacekowski, sure :)14:59
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alteregoOn a side note, are there any problems with me using Nokia maps maps? :)14:59
mecealterego, problems how?15:00
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Duckboottimeless_mbp: The thingy with "you must link twice to make a download from a link in the OVI store" - I can confirm it - I tried it, and I had to use the link twice - Last with WeatherBug.15:00
alteregoIf I want to write an application that uses Nokias maps ..15:00
alteregoOr am I best using openstreet or something.15:00
SpeedEvilalterego: It will - likely - be impossible.15:00
timeless_mbpDuckboot: so...15:00
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SpeedEvilalterego: Map licensing is _horribly_ frought.15:00
timeless_mbpi've used an internal nokia service which uses an sms for delivery15:00
timeless_mbpand it worked fine15:00
Venemonoone answered, so I'll ask again:15:00
alteregoSpeedEvil: Yeah, that's what I was thinking.15:00
SpeedEvilalterego: OSM is some orders of magnitude easier.15:00
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RST38hAppiah: For graphics15:00
timeless_mbpis the link to a .install file or a web page?15:01
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AppiahRST38h: developing apps or what?15:01
Venemois it possible to create a custom Flasher image from the current state of my N900?15:01
SpeedEvilalterego: see also15:01
Duckboottimeless_mbp: web page (URL)15:01
RST38hAppiah: Developing apps15:01
SpeedEvilVenemo: In principle, yes. In practice, I don't think anyones done that.15:01
Venemoand how to do it?15:01
Venemoit would be a very easy way to make backups15:01
timeless_mbpDuckboot: if someone sends you a normal url via sms and you click on it, does that work?15:02
AppiahI'd like that too Venemo15:02
Duckboottimeless_mbp: First time it opens the front page - Second time it goes to the actual download page.15:02
timeless_mbp" "15:02
Duckboottimeless_mbp: Yes15:02
timeless_mbpDuckboot: so this is a problem with Ovi, not the browser15:02
timeless_mbpyou guys all suck15:02
Duckboottimeless_mbp: Mmm - Atleast I think so, yes.15:02
SpeedEvilVenemo: Figure out how to extract the ubifs root filesystem - and archive it on your computer. Then work out how to put that together with FIASCO into a flashable image.15:02
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Duckboottimeless_mbp: ??15:02
ljsdofuynsdfufuhgoogle voice and google maps work on maemo?15:02
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StskeepsVenemo: i usually rsync -aHx / to a sd card with ext315:03
timeless_mbpDuckboot: if clicking the link in the sms opens a page15:03
Stskeepsand remake from there15:03
timeless_mbpthen you have to say that15:03
mecevoice work, and maps in browser work.15:03
timeless_mbpand you have to say what page it opens15:03
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timeless_mbpyou can't just say "nothing works unless i click it twice":15:03
Duckboottimeless_mbp: I did right now?15:03
Duckboot14:02 < Duckboot> timeless_mbp: First time it opens the front page - Second time it goes to the actual download page.15:03
timeless_mbpDuckboot: timeless_mbp: The thingy with "you must link twice to make a download from a link in the OVI store" - I can confirm it - I tried it, and I had to use the link twice - Last with WeatherBug.15:03
meceit's annoying how QUADS don't exist in gles.15:03
timeless_mbpyour initial comment to me was as unhelpful as the bug reporter's15:03
mecespeaking of gles15:04
VenemoStskeeps: this is interesting. Still, is there any easy solution for Windows?15:04
timeless_mbpnote that i am quite thankful that you eventually clarified15:04
timeless_mbpbut i'm still annoyed15:04
timeless_mbpcan you please try reproducing and actually record the location you're sent to the first time you click the link?15:04
VenemoStskeeps: Doesn't Flasher have the option to do this?15:04
alteregomece: quads are just two triangles :P15:05
StskeepsVenemo: no15:05
VenemoStskeeps: :(15:05
DuckbootSec - gonna try to download an app by sending a SMS with the link (from OVI-store)15:05
mecealterego, I know, but they are used. Alot.15:05
VenemoStskeeps: so, no trivial solution?15:05
StskeepsVenemo: no trivial solution15:05
alteregomece: I actually think triangles are more efficient anyway?15:05
meceljsdofuynsdfufuh, "mece: voice work, and maps in browser work." was meant for you.15:05
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VenemoStskeeps: thx for the info15:06
mecealterego, yes, but that doesn't help if it's someone else who's made the thing.15:06
timeless_mbpDuckboot: thank you very much15:06
mecealterego, besides, quads are convenient if you want just that. much less work than making 2 triangles.15:06
alteregoI dunno, use a triangle strip :P15:07
alteregoThat'd make quads easy, almost the same as actually making quads.15:07
mecealterego, for efficient, well made gl stuff, gles is nice and should work pretty straignt up, since they have that much in common, but for quick fixes it's annoying.15:07
ljsdofuynsdfufuhyeah, thanks mece, i caught it15:08
crashanddieI'm sorry if I'm going to be a troll15:08
crashanddiebut damn, the iPhone 4 looks sexy.15:08
Venemocrashanddie: no, it looks disgusting15:08
mecealterego, I'm very inexperienced in gl programming. My brother is playing with making old school space shooters with gl, and I try to port them to n900, and fail.15:08
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mececrashanddie, I know, I hate it too!15:09
crashanddiemece: I don't hate it :)15:09
alteregomece: hah, tell him to use triangles! :P15:09
Duckboottimeless_mbp: Tried to send "Alarm Maemo" to myself - Got link - Clicked on it in conversations - Ended up on - switched back to conversation - click on the link again - Ended up in the correct location.15:09
mececrashanddie, I don't hate it, I hate it that the iphone is sexy.15:09
meceduckboot, timeless_mbp, sounds like a cookie monster. Sets cookie first time, reads cookie second time. they should have a redirect after setting cookie.15:10
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meceduckboot, timeless_mbp, I actually had that exact same problem with this project at work yesterday :D15:10
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timeless_mbpDuckboot: can you do me a favor and comment in bug 10600?15:11
povbotBug Link from Ovi Store only works the second time15:11
Duckboottimeless_mbp: Consider it done15:11
mecealterego, ye.. will do.15:11
mecealterego, but there's also the problem with... erm I forget what it's called. vertexf3d?15:11
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alteregomece: you mean floating point values?15:12
mecealterego, no the whole function is missing from gles-15:12
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* timeless_mbp wanders off15:13
massoudhey there15:13
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massouddoes anyone knows where to find this apps for n900 :
mecealterego, I forget what it's actually called though.15:14
massoudSleepy Pattern w/ Timelapse features15:14
massoudor other timelapse application15:14
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Wolfiewtf... has app manager's search feature been pulled?15:16
Treibholzis there an alternative for Modest (except claws...)?15:16
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IkarusWolfie: no15:16
SpeedEvilstart typing in the app-list15:16
IkarusWolfie: it's just, ackward now15:16
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thpTreibholz: mutt?15:17
Treibholzthp: mutt is not really better on smartphone than modest...15:18
* Treibholz is dreaming of an "Xmutt" for years now...15:18
thpmutt is perfect - you can control it fully with the keyboard, obviously15:19
WolfieSpeedEvil, Ikarus: bah... there should be some kind of indication for that (like a textfield or something). Very unintuitive15:19
Wolfiebut thanks for your corrections15:19
thpTreibholz: but if you want to go graphical, muttator might be for you. maybe not on the n900, though..15:19
Treibholzthp: muttator doesn't work on TB3, just on it's betas...15:20
Wolfieah, there is a textfield, once you start writing... it'd be great if it would start visible, and fade/scroll out15:20
Wolfie*musings of a starting UX guy*15:20
alteregomece: has some helpers on an issue which I think is similar to yours15:20
Treibholzthp: on the Workstation I use 3 Mailclients in parallel because they all suck!15:20
timeless_mbpaSIMULAtor: — i just saw it and it reminded me of a conversation we had earlier15:21
Treibholzthp: mutt, thunderbird and Outlook via RDP (because of the calendar)15:21
meceoh well. got to head out.15:23
TreibholzI'm playing around with davmail, whoch gives me a CalDAV-Interface to Exchange, so I can see my calendar in lightning.15:23
Shapeshifteranother bug I guess will never be fixed is bug 1060815:23
povbotBug WM doesn't give focus to some apps, hence they don't receive keyboard input15:23
Shapeshifterand it's so damn impairing.15:24
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timeless_mbpDuckboot: thanks. bug burried15:25
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Venemowell, this seems to be just another "WONTFIX for Maemo 5" bug15:26
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Duckboottimeless_mbp: No probs15:32
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th3hateRestoring factory settings deletes applications and converstaions?15:36
jcrawfordmorning all15:37
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MohammadAG51frals, hildon uses gtk 2.x right?15:44
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E0xgtk 1.x is still in used ?15:48
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TreibholzE0x: not on Maemo15:50
MohammadAG51E0x, well, it's on so I was just wondering15:51
E0xpygtk use 2.x15:51
MohammadAG51also, I'd rather have a book than a pdf15:51
MohammadAG51so i'm printing all 412 pages15:52
MohammadAG51just need to be sure :)15:52
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* Treibholz would love to have both. a PDF for every book!15:52
* b-man|laptop yawns15:52
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MohammadAG51infobot, attack b-man|laptop15:52
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing b-man|laptop15:52
* b-man|laptop runs like crazy15:52
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ghostcubeany date for the rollercoaster game?15:54
b-man|laptop~shooot MohammadAG5115:54
b-man|laptop~shoot MohammadAG5115:55
* infobot shoots MohammadAG51 in the foot with a quantum singularity weapon!15:55
lcukghostcube, asap!15:55
ghostcubeheh :)15:55
MohammadAG51C would've done the same15:55
* lcuk wants to play also15:55
MohammadAG51hey, let's crack the ovi store15:55
ghostcubeC does always what everything else can and faster15:55
ghostcubeyeah ... so where to start fuzzing o.o15:55
lcukMohammadAG51, pygtk is quite reasonable, and yes gtk on our device is 2.14.x15:55
ghostcubehmmm android 2.2 anyone seen the new features15:56
ghostcubelooks cool15:56
* frals goes back to reading mail15:57
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pupnikcan n900 run WebOS?15:57
* b-man|laptop would consider plying with porting 2.2 to the N900, but the development tools necessary take too much disk space lol15:57
b-man|laptopi've ran parts of in in a chroot15:58
MohammadAG51most probably, if you add water15:58
pupnikb-man|laptop: ++15:58
pupnikwhat is missing?15:58
b-man|laptopthe Plm Pre's cpu is identical to the N900's15:58
pupnikexecution environment?15:58
b-man|laptopi (think) it needs a 32bit framebuffer15:58
b-man|laptopi haven't tested the ui15:59
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pupnikcan you pls take notes in a thread, blog or wiki?15:59
b-man|laptopsure lol16:00
pupnikif meego thinks it can compete for mindspace at this stage it needs to bring a compelling compatibility case16:00
* b-man|laptop will take notes on the maemo wiki - tmo is too negative and violent atm lol16:01
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b-man|laptopi'm 87% certain that with modifications, we can get it running ;)16:02
b-man|laptopStskeeps made a brief attempt at running it on his N90016:02
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b-man|laptopbut was not very successful16:03
* GAN900 wonders why Apple can manage not to drop their old customers like rocks yet Nokia can't pull it off.16:03
* b-man|laptop wonders the saame16:03
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pupnikwhat maemo-derived thing was announced to compete with webOS?16:04
pupnikforgot the name16:04
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fluxgreat, my pr 1.1 phone won't boot because something in the phone app corrupted16:06
fluxany suggestions?16:06
pupniki think limited resources may be best spend doing the low-level work needed to run existing app catalogues, whatever reverse engineering that involves is a solid investment16:06
fluxit keeps rebooting itself16:07
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asj_flux: why not just reflash it?16:07
fluxasj_, and lose all the data?16:07
lcukpupnik, the web runtime stuff?16:07
asj_flux: don't flash the emmc16:07
pupnikyeah web runtime16:07
fluxasj_, oh. well, gotta try that then.16:07
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fluxasj_, it will get rid of all my /etc stuff though?16:08
pupnikso what if meego is a Borg OS.  at this stage it has to be16:08
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asj_flux: yes, everything but /home will be reset16:08
fluxis there a way to make it boot so that it doesn't as easily autoreboot itself?16:08
ghostcubei would prefere someone port android 2.2 to the n90016:08
fluxasj_, I actually think /home is the culprit16:08
fluxasj_, so what would reflashing help?16:08
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fluxdamn stupid of me not to backup the data especially before rebooting it after it was acting weird :(16:09
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pupnikthere is no good reason for android to require a custom kernel ghostcube ... but maybe future mobile cpus will support virtualization16:09
ShadowJKwow, my N900 feels so thin after I swapped in the original battery16:09
asj_flux: you can flash the emmc first if you want...up to you..look at flashing online16:09
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asj_ShadowJK: you have the 3000mah monster?16:10
ghostcubepupnik: hmmm but if meego isnt running so far maybe android can help us getting the device back to live :D16:10
b-man|laptoppupnik: it's kinda sad that HP is going to dump WebOS phones and start producing "WebOS fax/printers/scanners" instead :P16:10
ShadowJKasj, 2400mAh, I don't know of any 3000mAh16:10
asj_ShadowJK: ah, close enogh ;)16:10
asj_damn I should go to bed, too wired on ice cream and M&Ms16:10
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b-man|laptopit's moaning here16:11
jacekowskighostcube: well, i've spent some time porting dalvik to glibc16:11
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jacekowskighostcube: so at some point n900 might run android apps16:12
ghostcubeoh cool16:12
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b-man|laptopi hate autocomplete :P16:12
jacekowskighostcube: but as far as i know there will be problem with google parts of api16:12
jacekowskighostcube: that are missing from sources16:12
jacekowskighostcube: so that would have to be done in illegal way which is pulling them out of firmware for normal android phone16:13
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flailingmonkeylike gui api for android apps16:13
ghostcubehmmm, may we should  finance chinese hackers :P16:14
flailingmonkeywhich is what most people really want16:14
flailingmonkeyi'd rather support community based projects16:14
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ghostcubei think google will release the code16:17
* MohammadAG51 goes back to lurking16:19
jacekowskighostcube: google relased code of everything16:20
jacekowskighostcube: except api for their services and stuff16:21
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auenfx4"The sms is being generated correctly when there is a missed call however it as it is not reaching your handset our supplier is requesting that you test on a different handset and confirm as they are unable to see any problems at their end."16:22
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auenfx4that sound like an issue someone else was/is having with their n900?16:22
ghostcubejacekowski: hmmm, thats bad16:22
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jacekowskighostcube: that can be just copied and pasted16:24
jacekowskighostcube: and i think it would be legal if it would be done by end user16:24
Ikarusflailingmonkey: afaik, the Google closed parts of the Dalvik libs is pretty limited and easily reimplemented16:24
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pupnikIkarus: frankly there is no good reason for android apps to be tied to one OS, imo16:26
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pupniki would like to see that wall knocked down16:27
jacekowskiIkarus: it's licensing problem16:27
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Venemoyou would first need a working JRE on Maemo, then the Google specific libs16:27
Duckbootpupnik: So - There is a good possibility of x-compiling Android Apps to Maemo/Meego?16:27
jacekowskiVenemo: it's not jre16:28
Ikarusjacekowski: no it isn't16:28
jacekowskiDuckboot: no16:28
MohammadAG51Flandry, ping16:28
Ikarusjacekowski: the dalvik vm itself can be ported16:28
Ikarusjacekowski: the libraries can be reimplemented16:28
jacekowskiDuckboot: these apps are not compiled as such16:28
jacekowskiDuckboot: it's very similiar to java16:28
Duckbootjacekowski: Ok? Is the Dalvik VM the culprit?16:28
DuckbootMmm - Ok.16:29
pupnikltimately the DRM may be the roadblock16:29
jacekowskieverything runs on dalvik16:29
jacekowskiand there are 3 problems16:29
jacekowskifucked up build system16:29
ghostcubeJRE for N900? i would be glad to have an working flash 10.x16:29
jacekowskidependence on bionic16:29
jacekowskighostcube: i disabled flash16:29
jacekowskiand google libs16:29
pupniklets encourage sites to adopt alternatives to flash16:29
jacekowskibionic can be worked around16:30
pupnikparticularly for video16:30
MohammadAG51that would never arrive too16:30
MohammadAG51so you'd be stuck16:30
MohammadAG51microb doesn't support HTML5 afaik16:30
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pupniki support Jobs on this one16:31
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DuckbootWell - I have to go - pickup kids and stuff - Laterz.16:31
MohammadAG51pupnik, I don't16:31
Venemomicrob supports html 5 as much as Firefox does16:31
MohammadAG51HTML5 is meh16:31
IkarusVenemo: HTML 5 as much as Firefox 3 does roughly16:32
pupnikMohammadAG51: less proprietary standards.  less binary blobs.  less trojans16:32
Ikarusupgrading gecko within microB is a interesting plan though16:32
MohammadAG51trojans eh16:32
SpeedEvilpupnik: But it's such a pretty horsie!16:32
jacekowskipupnik: less functionality16:32
MohammadAG51less accurate16:33
MohammadAG51(showed me as living in NYC)16:33
MohammadAG51i seriously don't understand one thing16:33
MohammadAG51if flash 10 on android is unaccelerated16:34
MohammadAG51isn't it just 9 + a version bump16:34
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pupniki would avoid advocating closed source for maemo16:34
jacekowskiMohammadAG51: it is16:34
flailingmonkeyapparently is is completely driver dependent16:34
pupnikthat includes flash upgrades16:34
flailingmonkeyso no guarantees for acceleration just for having 2.216:35
MohammadAG51jacekowski, so just change the version number from 9 to 1016:35
MohammadAG51and you have flash 1016:35
SpeedEvilMohammadAG51: There are certain features that are only present in 10, that are not user-visible16:36
MohammadAG51SpeedEvil, do they matter for most sites?16:36
flailingmonkeydo sites that upgrade to 10 stop working completely for users with v916:37
SpeedEvilMohammadAG51: It depends. Little - as I understand it to users.16:38
MohammadAG51i don't see flash 8 running flash 9 sites :)16:38
SpeedEvilflailingmonkey: yes.16:38
fluxrd-mode doesn't give any special magic powers to skip boot sequence or further disable watchdogs?16:38
SpeedEvilflailingmonkey: if they set the 'require 10' - they do16:38
SpeedEvilrequire 10 flag16:38
MohammadAG51so just hex 9 into 1016:38
MohammadAG51as a version number of course16:39
SpeedEvilSome sites set 10 fags on stuff that doesn't need it16:39
flailingmonkeyah, so some features require it, but mostly it is a setting from the site/swf16:39
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MohammadAG51that's what i'm referring to16:39
flailingmonkeyi think that is more important than acceleration, just getting rid of the extra hoops to jump through16:40
ghostcubethe problem is some pages just want an flash player 10.x to load16:42
MohammadAG51acceleration doesn't work yet16:42
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ghostcubei know its admin problem but who cares if the webmaster is a jurk16:42
MohammadAG51on the froyo beta16:42
fluxapparently it is not practical to have a serial cable for n900, and in any case, it wouldn't help my anyway?16:43
SpeedEvilflux: There is no readily available serial cable at all.16:44
fluxspeedevil, is it known how to connect one?16:45
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SpeedEvilWell - it's 1.8V serial to three of the pads under the battery.16:45
SpeedEvilI hope to be able to do more research on this in a week or so.16:46
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dnearyX-Fade, Ping?16:47
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dnearyX-Fade, What do you think about turning on the general query log for a few minutes on
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dneary(there might not be a need - just got another idea)16:47
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ghostcubewoah guys a question can anyone patch the software keyboard16:48
ghostcubei dont want to bother but the new layout sux like hell16:48
SpeedEvilghostcube: no.16:49
SpeedEvilghostcube: the keyboard itself is closed-source. But.16:49
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MOUDHey all16:49
SpeedEvilThe API is open - and people have been playing with doing their own.16:49
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ghostcubeah ok so maybe there is another layout sometime?16:49
ghostcubeor just try to fiddle my own16:49
MOUDHow can I create a separated skype ringtone from other calls?16:50
ghostcubeMOUD: good question16:50
MOUDghostcube: thanks16:50
flailingmonkeythere is only one ringtone, the (closed-source?) phone app doesn't have separate ones16:50
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ghostcubeSpeedEvil: thx16:51
flailingmonkeythis includes many possible features such as setting personal ringtones for contacts too16:52
ghostcubethe vert sms app uses this layout of the keyboard16:52
SpeedEvilghostcube: This works in all apps though16:52
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MOUDflailingmonkey: thanks for the info16:52
flailingmonkeyMOUD, no problem. it would be nice to be able to do such things, but the right place to do it is in the phone app16:55
jrk__lol penis16:55
flailingmonkeya possible approach would be to switch the audio file with the ringtone, but its hacky and a race to do it before the phone starts trying to read the file16:56
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MOUDis there a good (working) app for youtube?16:56
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ghostcubeno need for any apps to crawl youtube o.o16:57
fluxflailingmonkey, you could point ringtone to be played from a FUSE filesystem?16:57
fluxflailingmonkey, but that would be even a greater kludge :)16:57
ghostcubehm even on my s60 i can use ringtones for every group and person lol16:58
MOUDi feel uncomfortable using web browsing instead a youtube app16:58
flailingmonkeynot sure about quality, but there is zoutube. I'm excited to try out the mafw-grilo-sources16:58
SpeedEvilghostcube: Have you looked at the speed of update?16:58
MohammadAG51MOUD, use zoutube16:58
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SpeedEvilghostcube: videos are generally very jerky on the web browser.16:58
MohammadAG51it opens up in the default media player16:58
MOUDThanks, I'll give a try16:58
ghostcubeSpeedEvil: yeah thats true16:59
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ghostcubebut none of the apps really worked for me tilll today16:59
MohammadAG51youtube sucks on my i516:59
flailingmonkeyin most cases, phone OS's are designed with the dialing/phone calling as #1 priority. in maemo, its just an app16:59
ghostcubeoh.. ok16:59
MohammadAG51the N97 was the best phone17:00
MohammadAG51cause after each call, it'd shut down to save battery17:00
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flailingmonkeyits really unfortunate there isn't even a plugin interface for the phone app, which would let people extend it17:00
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* MohammadAG51 ponders what removing telepathy-ring would do17:01
ghostcubehuh healtcheck updates pulls in a lot uf qt stuff17:02
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MohammadAG51yeah, he moved to 4.7.317:02
MOUDZoutube is nice and I can even download the video XD17:02
fiferboylbt: Just tested and voted for shopper17:02
* MohammadAG51 kills docpurge17:03
fluxphew, flashinh root was enough17:03
lbtfiferboy: :) thanks...17:03
lbtyou like?17:03
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lbtanything need changing?17:03
flailingmonkeyvideo download? that is excellent17:03
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fiferboylbt: It's very nice.  Gestures, scrolling, portrait mode all work great.17:03
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fiferboylbt: I need to test making an actual list, but I like that there are default items/categories17:04
lbtthe gestures have improved haven't they - seem more reliable now17:04
lbtheh - did the 'help' items work?17:04
fiferboylbt: Yes, they definitely seem easier.17:04
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fiferboyYes, the help items were very helpful17:05
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fiferboyI have been toying around with porting my birdlist to declarative, but I haven't made the plunge yet17:05
lbtah.... Qt has internal 'options' which I use ... I need one so it doesn't create help items *every* time you do a New list17:05
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lbtoh, that's all Diablo code17:06
lbtpure C++17:06
lbtalthough I'm pretty sure nothing remains from Zaurus/Qtopia !17:06
MOUDis there any FLV to MP4 converter for N900? (like "convert on the go")17:07
fiferboyI did some Qtopia programming - a lot has changed since then17:08
lbtmainly on the 'fancy' side... although even more as we move to a graphical view of the world and not widgets17:08
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GeneralAntillesSo, kids.17:11
lbtgoats to you too!17:12
GeneralAntillesIt's suddenly a very depressing market for everybody but Apple.17:13
GeneralAntillesTalk about skipping ahead a generation.17:13
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: You getting an iPhone?17:13
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, doubt it.17:13
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, the hardware is droolworthy, but I know the software wont ever get close to stacking up.17:14
TermanaHe has no retinas17:14
ghostcubekismet needs lova :D17:14
fiferboyThings will catch up to Apple pretty quickly17:14
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, I sure hope so.17:15
flailingmonkeyi like the design, but i thought the previous ones looked dumb17:15
lbtMyrtti: you should try Shopper :)17:15
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, but if Nokia's plans for OMAP3/WVGA for Harmattan pan out it aint gonna be Nokia.17:15
fiferboyAndroid is almost there now.  We'll have to see what Meego does17:15
GeneralAntillesAndroid is a sad joke.17:16
fiferboyThe hardware looks nice17:16
GeneralAntillesMeeGo is more of Maemo's bullshit while jettisoning most of Maemo's inertia out the window.17:16
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GeneralAntillesSnapdragon isn't any more interesting than OMAP3.17:16
ghostcubeisnt meego intel dev headed?17:17
TermanaGeneralAntilles, So tell me again - if you don't like iPhone, you don't like Android and you think MeeGo is more Maemo bullshit - what platform do you think your going to use...17:17
GeneralAntillesTermana, probably MeeGo.17:17
GeneralAntillesTermana, sadly there's a distinct lack of satisfying choices in the market.17:18
microlithMeeGo is the only real option going forward, everything else is closed or just crap17:18
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GeneralAntillesand MeeGo barely manages to dodge those descriptions.17:18
* Termana groans17:18
ghostcubeit wont have dpkg ... so its a bit of crappy17:18
lbtghostcube: sure it will17:18
ghostcubefor rpm?17:18
TermanaI think I'm going to need something more than what I'm drinking now17:18
fiferboyI almost dipped my toe in the Android pool about a month ago, but I decided to stick it out with Maemo/Meego for the time being17:19
lbtit may not install packages... but I'm sure we can get something on there ;)17:19
microlithTermana: vodka, looks the same from a distance17:19
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, I couldn't stand Android.17:19
GeneralAntillesThe Nexus One is quite uninspiring.17:19
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* lbt has an Android thingy17:19
ghostcubelbt: hmmm.... ok but dpkg management is very cool17:19
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lbtnot very exciting though17:19
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Termanalbt, thats right, you got a Pulse didn't you?17:19
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Android has enough interesting that I was thinking it over17:20
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: And I have never handled one, which was probably part of the allure17:20
lbtTermana: yep17:20
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, yeah, it's not great in person.17:20
N900loveryo....anybody else jumpin ship to iphone 4 ?17:20
lbtpretty amazing for £9017:20
GeneralAntillesThe whole Java thing really cripples it.17:20
TermanaN900lover, the whole room17:20
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N900loverour fat n900 bricks look pretty outdated now dont they?17:21
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Termanalbt agrees wholeheartedly17:21
GeneralAntillesIndeed they do.17:21
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fluxbutbut, it's not the size, it's how you use it :(17:21
GeneralAntillesand worse yet since Nokia's dropping them like the bricks they are.17:21
SpeedEvilfrals: - can you point me at any other documentation I've missed?17:21
N900loverto make matters worse nokia is taking a dump on n900 users ,,,,load of crap17:22
TermanaLet us not forget - iOS is based on real, certified UNIX. Are you a man without using a fully POSIX/SUS compliant OS?17:22
MOUDbye all17:22
Appiahis nokia shitting on me?17:22
lbtaww, poor N900lover17:23
N900loverappiah - yes17:23
TermanaAppiah, no, but if you want to be shitted on I can help you17:23
N900loveriphone 4 blows our brick out of the water dont ya think?17:23
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AppiahTermana: oh you! :)17:23
lbtN900lover: by whose metrics?17:23
AppiahN900lover: tell me more17:23
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Sounds like you need a pick-me-up - the Jays are in your neck of the woods17:23
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, gonna go watch the Marlins on Friday.17:24
N900loverlbt: every thinking man's metrics17:24
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, if only the Rays didn't make every game into a struggle.17:24
lbtN900lover: I guess Apple hardly ever shit on their devs .... <ROFL>17:24
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fiferboyGeneralAntilles: The Rays should do well once they get to the Jays pen17:24
GeneralAntillesStarted out the season where it was boring watching them run guys around the bases.17:24
lbtN900lover: what thinking man bought an N900 which was never intended to be much more than a PoC ?17:24
GeneralAntillesNow the offense is in such a slump that every game is like the hardest they've ever played.17:25
N900loverlbt: apple doesnt drop support on their devices 5 months after coming to market17:25
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, with the way our offense is playing, we'll see. ;)17:25
lbtN900lover: drop support? I just loaded PR1.217:25
N900lovernokia are the experts at showing the middle gfinger to the customer17:25
Appiahdid nokia drop support now?17:25
TermanaN900lover, no, they just, you know, drop support for devices that have the same hardware as the generation-after's hardware17:25
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Appiahwhere did you get this info from?17:26
GeneralAntilleslbt, yeah, so did we. :)17:26
N900loverlbt: screw 1.2...bunch of bug fixes thas all. no meego freaking meego.....fail17:26
Appiahthere will be meego17:26
lbtso fixing bugs isn't support?17:26
TermanaiPhone 2G/iPod Touch First Gen uses the same hardware as the iPhone 3G. But no updates for iPhone 2G/First Gen iTouch users17:26
GeneralAntilleslbt, there are more regressions than bug fixes. :)17:26
lbtGeneralAntilles: nonetheless ... that's not the same as dropping support17:27
GeneralAntilleslbt, and, no, it's not really support when there's barely enough team left to test the simple stuff.17:27
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Those regressions are features17:27
N900lovermeego for N900 will not happen.... I am not interested in an os hacked together by pimple faced kids support my ass17:27
GeneralAntilleslbt, technical definitions don't serve much use when you're talking about perceived customer experienc.17:27
lbtalthough I grant you that N900 isn't a strategic platform for Nokia17:27
GeneralAntilleslbt, the customer is getting a months-delayed minor update that's rife with bugs and brings little in the way of new features.17:27
lbtbut I expect it to be the most open phone device available for years to come17:27
Appiah <- but the team leader is from Nokia?17:28
DisconnectN900lover: better avoid any linux devices then..17:28
fralsSpeedEvil: wappushd.. but i cant for the life of me find docs any where on the web, package with headers is wappushd-dev17:28
N900loverlinux is overrated17:28
fiferboyActually, PR1.2 is quite a lot nicer to develop for in my opinion.  Nice Qt libs, some fixes to desktop widgets17:28
Appiahand several team members are from nokia17:28
lbtGeneralAntilles: which could explain why they're comitted to MeeGo...17:28
AppiahN900lover: are you just flaming now?17:28
N900lover1.2 is a huge freaking fail17:28
GeneralAntilleslbt, a platform that wont be coming to N900 except as whatever the community can make happen.17:28
Disconnectlbt: fyi google's offerings (adp1/2, n1) are way more open..17:28
lbtGeneralAntilles: pretty much the definition of "open"17:28
GeneralAntilleslbt, mmm17:29
Appiah N900lover this looks like Nokia is supporting it, not just "community"17:29
Disconnectbasically everything except gl and the bootloader source (the interface is published)..17:29
N900loverscrew meego community support for N90017:29
lbtDisconnect: sorry, I meant "open linux"17:29
lbtyou're probably right17:29
* Disconnect prolly wouldn't have gotten the n900 if he'd seen the up to date "whats open and whats closed" graphic instead of the outdated wiki page.17:29
N900loverconvenient excuse for Arsi Jaksi and his gang17:29
N900loveriphone looks pretty yoo17:30
lbtDisconnect: I'm glad Android is out there... it'll push MeeGo to be more open than I think they'd otherwise have been17:30
fiferboyWhoa, it's a maemo downer here today.  Good thing I wasn't here a month ago17:30
Disconnectlbt: yah.17:30
Disconnectand in the meantime, nitdroid ;)17:30
lbtN900lover: let us know how that goes for you17:30
N900lovermeego will never take off17:30
VenemoN900lover: you are right in a way but your statements contradict your name17:30
fralsah, i love when this channel turns in to "whinge and cry about everything"17:30
* GeneralAntilles just doesn't have the energy left to start from scratch with MeeGo.17:31
TermanaN900lover, I have made a video for you. It will put ALL your worries aside17:31
N900lovercan i ask a question? how come nokia introduced N900 in India couple of days ago when they know N900 is dead?????? answer me this peeps17:31
lbtGeneralAntilles: I think I mentioned Qt is the future about 15 months ago.... :)17:31
* lbt sees a flaw in N900lover's argument there17:32
GeneralAntilleslbt, that isn't a perfect answer to everything. :)17:32
AppiahI just see flames17:32 CSS still borked?17:32
GeneralAntilleslbt, that doesn't fix the fact that most of the core applications and plugins are underfeatured and broken17:32
N900loverflames??? discuss like a man17:32
lbtN900lover: "If I am right how come nothing matches my reality"....17:32
GeneralAntillesand wont ever really be fixed for N900 owners.17:32
alteregooh dear, I think I'm gonna go afk again.17:32
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lbtGeneralAntilles: I'd never "sell" an N900 to a consumer17:32
GeneralAntilleslbt, yet Nokia does on a daily basis.17:32
SpeedEvilfrals: thanks17:33
GeneralAntillesWhatever you'd choose to do, Nokia has certainly advertised the device as something other than a niche developer device.17:33
lbtthe same consumers who get to pick them up, try them and choose?17:33
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alteregoheh, I'm a consumer and I wouldn't have any other device.17:33
N900loveriphone wipes the floor with our little bricks17:33
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lbtN900lover: you said they were big bricks17:33
lbtmake your mind up17:33
alteregoif you're a developer, it really is the best platform to work with imo :/17:33
GeneralAntillesI think it's fair to expect that Nokia would at least attempt to be competitive with the rest of the market as far as support is concerned.17:33
Termanalbt, :P17:33
GeneralAntillesalterego, which makes the fact that Nokia sucks as a company all the more painful.17:34
N900loveri admit i love N900 but..... nokia support it !!!!17:34
GeneralAntillesThere really isn't anything better out there.17:34
AppiahI'd only recommend N900 to linux nerds17:34
IkarusAppiah: I know enough non-Linux nerds owning one17:34
GeneralAntillesIt's just that Nokia can't manage to go more than a generation without killing all of the inertia and goodwill they've built up.17:34
lbtGeneralAntilles: heh  face it. Supporting an open linux based solution has large initial costs17:34
GeneralAntilleslbt, of course it does.17:34
lbtto change how you work17:35
dnearyGeneralAntilles: I honestly don't think it's a big deal that Nokia aren't supporting MeeGo on N900, unless that means I won't be able to get on any phone networks with it17:35
GeneralAntilleslbt, but Nokia is a big company with big pockets.17:35
N900loverhow do i freaking exit?17:35
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alteregoI actually told a friend to wait for the next harmatten device. he bought an N900 a week ago. he loves it ^.^17:35
lbtthey're betting on a longer term payback17:35
GeneralAntillesdneary, just look at Talk.17:35
alteregoso I was wrong :D17:35
GeneralAntillesdneary, look at all the energy that's going out the window.17:35
ghostcubeirssi? /quit17:35
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Sure17:35
N900loverfreaking irssi17:35
dnearyGeneralAntilles: But here's the thing17:35
lbtN900 see the X at the top right....17:35
TermanaN900lover, close the window?17:35
GeneralAntilleslbt, doesn't help me or their existing customers in the short-term, though. :)17:35
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lbtN900 or the power button....17:35
alteregoGeneralAntilles: I agree. there seems to be too much bitching and not enough idea making.17:35
lbtGeneralAntilles: true17:36
ghostcubeor use xchat17:36
N900loverbye peeps... N900 is da king !!!!17:36
dnearyGeneralAntilles: There's some heat loss because the lid came off meego before the valves to bring the gas from one place to the other were all screwed in17:36
GeneralAntillesalterego, the blame for most of that we can place squarely on Nokia's shoulder's.17:36
TermanaHang on a second17:36
TermanaDidn't he just bash the hell out of the n90017:36
TermanaNow its the king?17:36
alteregoIf there are more devs like me, who are just looking for a cool idea to develop, there's nothing there to give us inspiration.17:36
dnearyBut to *run* MeeGo on an N900 doesn't need you to be active on Maemo17:36
lbtN900lover: you still here?17:36
N900loverlbt: yea17:36
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N900loveralls i'm saying is why no meego on N900.... freaking why nokia????? n900 is da bomb17:37
TermanaN900lover, especially if you put fire near the battery17:38
* lbt goes to post some letters...17:38
GeneralAntillesN900lover, because Nokia is short-sighted.17:38
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N900loverfreaking drivin me nuts nokia is17:38
GeneralAntillesThey just see it as a cost17:38
pupniki have measured batt up to 49 degrees c17:38
GeneralAntillesThey don't see the other problems with the path they're taking.17:38
GeneralAntillesLike the fact that the community is going up in flames.17:38
alteregoWell, they did say they'd help the community with a fully functional MeeGo instance for the N90017:39
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GeneralAntillesalterego, just like they "helped" with Fremantle for N8x0? :)17:39
Appiahisnt there Fremantle for N8x0 ?17:39
lbtit was called Mer17:39
alteregoI think that as Mer was dropped, what were they going to do?17:39
lbtand the Mer dev is now doing MeeGo on N90017:40
pupnikGeneralAntilles: you need to explain your positions a little more thoroughly17:40
pupnikor risk being dismissed17:40
GeneralAntillespupnik, what about it?17:40
alteregoexactly, Mer never really took off imo17:40
lbt'cos almost no-one from "the community" helped make it work17:40
GeneralAntilleslbt, nor did much of that promised help from Nokia ever materialize.17:40
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lbtI'm not sure they promised much help for Mer17:41
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alteregosure, and is there anyone in the "community" that actually cares anymore? we got the gles drivers we all wanted so much. and no one did scht with them... :(17:41
GeneralAntillesalterego, well, they did a LOT, actually.17:41
GeneralAntillesBut the drivers were nearly useless.17:42
pupnikfor e.g. "not officially supporting meego on n900 risks leaving many current develolpers behind if meego-on-n900 is not fully functional as a phone os"17:42
GeneralAntillesThey hadn't actually been tested on N8x0.17:42
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GeneralAntillesSo we got a lot less than was promised.17:42
GeneralAntillespupnik, not even developers.17:42
pupnikdevelolpers is an interesting typo...17:42
GeneralAntillesLosing those customers hurts the platform.17:42
alteregohrm, well, I guess it's hard to find scht these days in the forum. My app announcement on tmo was swamped in about 30 seconds by bitching.17:42
GeneralAntillesIt generates a lot of ill will for Nokia as a company.17:42
pupnikwhy.  customers still use the maemo517:42
GeneralAntillesPerceptions are important, and people don't have a good perception of Nokia or Maemo.17:43
microlithpupnik: have you see TMO lately?17:43
SpeedEvilpupnik: Because if meego is supposed to be 'the thing of the future' - you have to push this into positive mindshare.17:43
GeneralAntillesLarge swaths of the community are in the process of tearing themselves to pieces because of Nokia.17:43
SpeedEvilpupnik: You have to work with devs to get it to be the future.17:43
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SpeedEvilAnd most importantly.17:43
GeneralAntillesCurrently MeeGo is perceived badly by existing customers because it's the thing that's better than what you have but you're not allowed to have.17:43
SpeedEvilYou have to give those devs users.17:44
pupnikbecause some loud people want backwards support for new OSes?17:44
SpeedEvilA dev community without users will die.17:44
GeneralAntillesContributors perceive it badly because of the "We're open! (but not really)" shit.17:44
pupniki think there is some myopia happening17:44
microlithpupnik: considering the example Apple has set, is that an unreasonable expectation?17:44
GeneralAntillespupnik, I think I'm tired of playing apologist for Nokia and being duped into being optimistic about their bullshit.17:45
lcukapple has not set any standard - they just started from simple fundimental working principles and built from there17:45
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Don't you have to be optimistic until September?17:45
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SpeedEvil'WE WANT LOTS OF MONEY!'17:45
pupnikgiven the history of maemo it is a fake pose to act shocked17:45
SpeedEvilBasic fundamental working principles.17:45
GeneralAntillesWho's shocked?17:45
* GeneralAntilles is just tired.17:45
GeneralAntillesNokia needs to learn how to generate goodwill.17:46
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GeneralAntillesSo far they completely fail there.17:46
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pupnikwell this is how it is.  new device new OS17:46
alteregoIt's a valid point, I think nokia are too focused on creating something good, pushing it out, then moving on to making something else good. not so concerned about a more, organic evolution maybe? rather than creating hype for what we have as a stepping stone to their future, they're just pushing it as some black box in itself (it being N900)17:46
GeneralAntillesStuff they TRY to do to generate goodwill just ends up backfiring on them.17:46
GeneralAntillesalterego, it's worse because there are no TECHNICAL arguments to not providing that sort of evolution.17:46
GeneralAntillesThey're just sick as an organization.17:47
alteregoIndeed, though, that was the case with fremantle Mer on N8x017:47
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GeneralAntillesBut it's not the case for N900 and Harmattan17:47
alteregoThe only headache they'd have withn Harmatten on N900 is multi-touch :/17:47
GeneralAntillesThe bullshit about capacitive is exactly that.17:48
GeneralAntillesMultitouch input solutions are so gimmicky17:48
GeneralAntillesNokia's just too goddamn cheap to do it.17:48
AppiahWhat do you need Multitouch for in Harmatten?17:48
Appiahis there no way to navigate without it?17:48
GeneralAntillesAppiah, knowing Nokia's UI designers, probably everything.17:48
GeneralAntillesThere's no lock mode, you just have to have two fingers on the screen at all times. ;)17:49
Appiahno lock? wtf17:49
GeneralAntillesAppiah, joke.17:49
AppiahGeneralAntilles: :D17:49
GeneralAntillesBut that's the sort of shit they'd pull as a justification for not supporting the N900.17:49
TermanaYou realise Nokia is willing to help get Harmattan on n90017:49
alteregoSo, we have a bunch of users that need portrait for one-handed operation. Nokia, obviously listening very carefully will make their entire interfce only accessible via multitouch ;)17:49
GeneralAntillesTermana, I'll believe it when I see it.17:49
* GeneralAntilles doubts they'll bother licensing Flash, for instance.17:50
alteregoTermana, all we've really heard is a bunch of Nokia devices Linux/OSS advocates say they intend to help as much as they can.17:50
alteregoThat may be pessimistic, but it's pretty much what I've ascertained from the posts.17:51
Appiahspeaking of flash17:51
AppiahWhere's Flash 10?17:51
* Appiah ducks17:51
Termanaalterego, even if that was the case, what more do you expect, theres no public release of Harmattan.17:51
alteregowhy don't we just chroot MeeGo. there, no need for BME et al. ;)17:51
konfooflash always ran like crap on the n90017:52
SpeedEvilIt's not that bad17:52
TermanaYou can't do something with nothing. And they can't say anything about what isn't public17:52
DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles: news?17:52
SpeedEvilbbc iplayer fullscreen is actually quite OK.17:52
Appiahruns as crappy as it does on my laptop/pc17:52
Appiahno diff really for me17:52
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konfooadobe promised flash 10.1 at the last partner meeting17:52
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alteregoTermana: I expected less, that news actually made me happy :)17:52
konfoohowever they specifically weaseled when i tried to pin them on n90017:53
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: o/17:53
konfoo'we provide it to nokia, they have to implement, the responsibility is theirs'17:53
alteregootoh, I will probably get the next device ... If it's shiney enough. and has a keyboard .... pahahahaa17:53
SpeedEvilalterego: the n8 you mean?>17:54
GeneralAntilleskonfoo, yeah, I think Nokia probably decided it wasn't worth the effort.17:54
alteregoSpeedEvil: bo the Harmatten device.17:55
konfoothing is adobe is putting flash 10.1 on everything. any device that does not support 10.1 for hardware requirements gets a newer flash lite. if the n900 doesn't get 10.1 it's dead as a flash platform17:55
alteregoI'll get it anyway if I get the DDP ...17:56
jacekowskikonfoo: flash is dead17:56
alteregoand provided I actually have a job ..17:56
jacekowskikonfoo: less devices support it the better17:56
konfoosince 10.1 is needed for dynamic streaming and a host of other stuff17:56
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alteregojacekowski: I agree, Steve said so! :D17:56
jacekowskikonfoo: html5 can do videos17:56
konfooflash is dead huh? i guess our imaginary cuscomers are.. imaginary17:56
GAN900Capacitive is really the knife in the kidney with the Harmattan device for me.17:56
konfoohtml5 has a long way to go17:57
jacekowskikonfoo: do you want to bet that i can do everything in js that you can do in flash?17:57
konfoojace: look im not going to argue with you. i work for a CDN17:57
dnearydebugging server software on a server where I don't have root is.... hard17:57
GAN900Not without HTML5 support on Maemo17:58
konfoo90% of our customers stream flash. 1-2% are doing html5. the rest are doing windows media/quicktime17:58
GAN900Which will never come either.17:58
konfoosorry that's just the way it is17:58
konfoopersonally i have no interest in flash for video17:58
fluxjacekowski, can you do a voice teleconferecing app in javascript?17:59
hrwGAN900: maemo and new software? :D17:59
GAN900hrw, yeah. . . .17:59
konfooflux: pointless argument since most people think 'video' and assume a file played over http from a server. that's 5% of all cdn customers18:00
SpeedEvilkonfoo: rtmpe?18:00
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konfoowhat about rtmpe?18:00
SpeedEvilkonfoo: I mean the other 90%18:01
konfoomaybe 10% of the remaining 90% use rtmpe18:01
konfoonone use rtmps18:01
konfoonone use drm18:01
konfoo(that says something)18:01
SpeedEvilBut rtmpe is secure! :)18:01
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konfoowhen presented with the facts most companies dont use drm since a simple token/ticketing system will do fine18:02
konfoothey dont want to pain of provisioning/managing drm licenses18:02
konfooand.. it is indeed a massive pain18:02
* SpeedEvil was pondering something earlier that stuck a proxy in the middle of a flash stream, and rebandwidthed it.18:02
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konfooa transcoder?18:03
SpeedEvilInto the original player window.18:03
alteregoGAN900: who actually asked for multitouch anyway? I can understand it'd be neat, but only as an augmentation to the precision of resistive. I want both, why can't they be truely revolutionary and do that :D18:03
alteregoand keep the keyboard.18:03
SpeedEvilClearly the next device should have an inductive keyboard.18:03
konfoomost encoders do multibitrate doing away with that need these days. at least, very few customer demands for transcoding besides batch transcode of on-demand files18:04
Shapeshifterlol tmo has reached a new low
SpeedEvilkonfoo: Sure. That's not the problem. My problem is I wander to various site on flash on my phone. And it chugs, as my network won't do that bitrate of video.18:04
SpeedEvilkonfoo: I was wondering about a solution to this.18:04
BugBlueShapeshifter: even 4chan seems to have better posts18:05
konfooclient-side upnp transcoder?18:05
MohammadAGlol Shapeshifter18:05
konfoohas to suppor the remote site's link and url structure though, and rip out the streaming urls...18:05
SpeedEvilcongerro: yes.18:05
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konfoospeed: losing battle, get a faster device ;)18:06
SpeedEvilkonfoo: somewhat tricky. rtmpsrv - almost does that.18:06
konfoortmp is an insanely crappy protocol18:06
SpeedEvilkonfoo: network bandwidth. (though CPU can be a problem too.18:06
SpeedEvilyes, it is.18:06
MohammadAGThe application '<unknown>' lost its connection to the display :0.0;18:07
MohammadAGmost likely the X server was shut down or you killed/destroyed18:07
MohammadAGthe application.18:07
MohammadAGshould I be worried :)18:07
konfoodid u try rebooting? :P18:08
SpeedEvilWhat actually happened to cause that message?18:08
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benno2Hi, when creating my own .deb package. can I put my files in /opt right from the start ? eg /opt/maemo/myapp/bin/myapp  and then symlink /usr/bin/myapp to /opt/maemo/bin/myapp  , thus avoiding to use maemo-optify ? is this ok to make an official .deb which could be uploaded to the maemo repositories ?18:09
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, not sure, it just popped up while using ssh18:12
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barisioneif my package has a -dbg package too, which section should I use for the -dbg one?18:13
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barisioneis devel ok?18:14
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SpeedEvilI assume there is no generalised - 'with debugging symbols' repo?18:14
jacekowskibarisione: just skip that in -dbg18:15
jacekowskiPackage: libgtk2.0-0-dbg18:16
jacekowskiSection: libdevel18:16
jacekowskidevel and libdevel18:16
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GAN900alterego, Apple's marketing.18:21
GAN900alterego, I'd love to see them push Stantum.18:21
alteregoGAN900: my sentiments exactly :S18:21
alteregoGAN900: I can understand the appeal on a rather larger screen, and maybe it's a little neat, but, I don't want it if I have to sacrifice what we already have ...18:22
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GAN900Precision and versatility.18:22
GAN900I can't stand capacitive.18:23
alteregoWhy can't they mesh both technologies though?18:23
alteregoEverything is expensive, to begin with.18:23
SpeedEvilalterego: SAW is actually probably what you'd want.18:23
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alteregoThe point is, if the tech was there, and everyone used it, everyone would be happy.18:23
GAN900Because most of their braindead customers think they want "What the iPhone has"18:24
alteregoPrices would drop, and consumers would have the best of the best.18:24
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alteregoSpeedEvil: seen that before, v'neat .:)18:27
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loufoquewhy doesn't the N900 support multi-touch? Patent problem?18:35
Stskeepsit's a resistive screen?18:35
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Stskeepsalso, gtk and qt wasn't until recently able to use it properly18:35
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Stskeepsor X, for that matter18:36
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marmouteStskeeps: X has multipointer for ages18:38
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loufoquethere is a fork that does IIRC18:39
loufoqueit's not in X.org18:39
loufoqueoh no my bad it's in since XServer 1.718:40
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Ro9u3oR_I was hoping someone could help me with setting up my internet connection on a N90018:46
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lcukRo9u3oR_, for most people its as easy as connecting to wifi, or to mobile web?18:46
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Ro9u3oR_Im using t-mobile service and my phone isn't picking up the service18:47
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Ro9u3oR_i was wondering what i would need to do in order for my phone to pick up the data connection18:48
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lcukRo9u3oR_, contact tmobile and check your sim is 3g enabled and ask for the correct credentials18:48
lcukor do a google to the same effect18:49
E0xRo9u3oR_: you don't see the connection of you providers18:49
E0xin the internet conection menu ?18:49
Ro9u3oR_I see the tmobile connection however no data18:50
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E0xwhat do you mean with not data ?18:50
E0xnot work when you get connect ?18:50
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E0xi read something about n900 and tmobile issues18:50
E0xat the forum18:50
Ro9u3oR_i can send text msgs but cant surf the net18:50
E0xin other phone with the same sim the data work ?18:51
Ro9u3oR_I havent tried that yet18:52
Ro9u3oR_but good idea18:52
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rodaldahi does any one knows how to tetheer via wifi?19:02
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orangeyhello all!19:04
orangeyI'm looking to overclock my pr 1.2. Is there any good guides specific to 1.2?19:04
rodaldahello orangey!19:04
orangeyor should I follow this one:
alteregoorangey: I think, if you want to do something that stupid, you're on your own :P19:05
alteregoAt least, that's my view.19:05
orangeyi'm pretty sure you're in the minority19:05
orangeymost people feel supporting others is a more natural instinct19:06
alteregoWell, there'xs supporting, and there's pushing off a cliff.19:06
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alteregoI see this as more the latter :P19:06
orangeyalterego: so you must know of some bad thing that overclocking does?19:06
alteregoI've heard at least one person has completely fried their device.19:07
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orangeyit sounds like the best thing to do with that information is publish it widely19:07
alteregoIf you want to do it, do it.19:08
GeneralAntillesorangey, it significantly reduces the lifetime of your SoC.19:08
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GeneralAntillesorangey, and it has been published widely, TI has the docs on its website19:08
orangeyalterego: so it can be assessed and incorporated into the narrative19:08
GeneralAntillesand engineers from both TI and Nokia has STRONGLY advised against it on numerous occasions.19:08
d1bGeneralAntilles: what about hacking the gsm module ;P19:09
orangeyGeneralAntilles: because of reductions in cpu lifetime?19:09
vldcnstorangey: stock frequency is already somewhat overclocked, increasing that frequency even further will exponentially reduce the lifetime.19:09
GeneralAntillesorangey, yes, it may die on you in days or weeks.19:09
SpeedEvilIMO - it depends. If you're keeping it for a year - then I would say modest overclocking - say to 800 - is probably not going to kill it. Especially if you keep the voltage as low as possible.19:10
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alteregoorangey: but you might get lucky, it might not die for months.19:10
SpeedEvilIf you want it to last as long as possible, leave it at 600 max.19:10
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alteregoBut, until we have people that have had their devices overclocked for months, we don't know. Personally, I expect in about 6 months we'll start to hear a lot of people complaining their devices aren't reliable, constant crashing, and it'll turn out these people all over-clocked.19:11
alteregoBut we'll see.19:11
vldcnst6 months? You're optimistic.19:11
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SpeedEvilWe have not seen a rash of 'my n900 broke'.19:11
alterego6 months is my general mid-term quick guess for pretty much anything.19:11
SpeedEvilI think it's fair to say that at least some of the people who overclocked would have commented on it if it was common.19:11
alteregoMeeGo 1.1 will be out in 6 months19:11
alteregoThe next Nokia Harmatten device will be out in 6 months19:12
alteregoPR1.3 will be out in 6 months19:12
alteregoblah :P19:12
vldcnstand again, you're so optimistic. :)19:12
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orangeyif overclocking makes the system that much more usable, I think it may actually be worth it, especially with the quick turnaround times of these devices.19:14
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orangeyit would be ideal for my device to die, rather than have the undignified death of the n810 currently in my desk19:15
alteregoorangey: well, if your turn around time is 6 months, go for it!19:15
alteregoThough, personally, my contacts are at a minimum 12 months19:15
alteregoPlus, I'm jobless so.19:16
alteregoI'm obviously not as lucky as you.19:16
SpeedEvilI'm planning  on keeping this phone at least 3 years.19:16
alteregoGood luck Richard Branson!19:16
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SpeedEvilUnless something happens to it, or I get very rich. In which case, I may follow Richard Bransons example, which is not compatible with phones.19:16
alterego~contracts ..19:16
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orangeywhat's his example?19:16
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alteregoorangey: I just thought he was you, as you're obviously happy to throw around 600 quid every few months on a freakin' phone :P19:17
orangeyyou spent 600 quid for your n900?19:17
orangeyThere's your problem.19:17
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SpeedEvil  (not worksafe)19:18
alteregoorangey: I'm actually still counting how much I spent on my N900, the contract wwas 18 months for that one.19:18
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: [om-devel][2010-06-08 16:35:05] <lars_> for bq27000 I have patches which merge it with the upstream bq27x00 driver, which hopefully make it into 2.6.3619:18
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vldcnstDenni is hot!19:18
orangeyalterego: ouch19:18
orangeyalterego: I got mine for about 450 US all in19:19
alteregoYeah, f*cking cheap American bitches ..19:19
alteregoYou have no idea how lucky you are ..19:19
alteregoBut at least I'm not a faat so ..19:19
* SpeedEvil is not either! (worksafe)19:20
[[[paul]]]Hey, that's not fair... only 67% of americans are overweight :)19:20
alteregoHah, sorry, I thought generalization was alright ;)19:20
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GeneralAntillesalterego, you, too, can not be socialist.19:22
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alteregoI think it's about pub time ..19:23
orangeyanother question.. thumbnailerd spends a lot of time working every boot19:23
orangeyprobably 2 hours every time I turn the system on19:23
orangeyany way to avoid that?19:23
SpeedEvilOr edit the config file not to do that.19:24
SpeedEvilthere is a thumb nailer config in there too19:24
ljsdofuynsdfufuhdoes the n900 dual boot with android yet?19:25
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alteregoYeah, I can't be bothered with this faggotry anymore, I'll see you guys/gals on the other side.19:25
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SpeedEvilljsdofuynsdfufuh: Some people have booted android. As far as I'm aware - there is no howto19:25
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[[[paul]]]orangey: my N900 did that every reboot after upgrading to PR1.2, it stopped doing it so much when I rebuilt the tracker database with "tracker-processes -r"19:25
timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: hey, fun reading19:26
[[[paul]]]orangey: of course in my case image viewer and media player didn't show any contents at all until I did that...19:26
timeless_mbp read the text below "What should I do if I have been charged twice for the same Ovi Store download?"19:26
orangey[[[paul]]]: interesting19:27
orangey[[[paul]]]: just tried it, now to see wha thappens19:27
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[[[paul]]]orangey: good luck! mine took about 3 minutes to rebuild and then all was calm after that19:27
orangeyit took seconds here19:27
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[[[paul]]]depends on amount of media content I guess19:28
orangey[[[paul]]]: indeed, the problem is fixed!19:28
orangeythank you!19:28
SpeedEvilI stuck a backup of my laptop / on it. ~16G. With _lots_ of files.19:29
SpeedEviltracker went rather insane.19:29
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* MohammadAG51 thinks his dpkg lists are borked19:45
MohammadAG51dpkg: parse error, in file `/var/lib/dpkg/available' near line 13485 package `repeatswitcherstatus':19:45
MohammadAG51 EOF during value of field `Maemo-Icon-26' (missing final newline)19:45
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jperez26hey anyone and everyone19:46
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xDaReaperxHi guys i need you're help for a min , my N900 restarted unexpectedly now .. i don't know for what reason19:47
jperez26i was wondering if anyone else was having issues connecting to the diablo ssu community repo19:48
mikki-kunxDaReaperx: playing with kernel-power?19:49
xDaReaperxno i didn't do anything19:49
xDaReaperxi created a Ad-hoc network today19:49
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mikki-kunhm, then it could be one of those "nokia doesn't even know what's the issue" issue19:49
xDaReaperxso how do i know why i rebooted ?19:50
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xDaReaperxthis is the boot reason : sw_rst19:50
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mikki-kunhm... i am not sure, but most probably could have been die to some software... SoftWare_ReSet19:51
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xDaReaperxoh it's happening for the first time though19:52
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jperez26i'll ask my question again later when others aren't afk.  thanks any feelas19:56
dotblankugh phonon feels so bloated...19:57
dotblankit works.. but...19:57
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jperez26the community-testing repo works19:58
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jperez26i can't seem to connect to the community repo19:58
jperez26gives me a 40419:59
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xDaReaperxi used to get those 404's20:00
xDaReaperxbut now it's fixed since the WiFi connection was not powerfull20:01
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jperez26mine is always 100% cuz i'm right next to it20:02
jperez26plus, all other repos work20:02
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jperez26i still love my n810.  i can't part with it.  i've tried xD20:03
RST38hA group of adolescents interred at an internet addiction boot camp rose up against their oppressors last week, restraining their supervisor and fleeing the facility20:03
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jperez26sounds like back stage at the peewee's playhouse set o.o20:04
SpeedEvil - hmm - google fail20:04
jperez26lol...i just checked the repo for "community" on my laptop and the page directory was empty...20:05
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lcukheya konttori \o20:08
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lcukjust chillin no - opened a beer :)20:08
flailingmonkeyN900: a great research project released to customers, great community, uninvolved or uninformed managers...20:09
* lcuk slides one across20:09
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konttoriFunny. I just ran opera n900 on  versus microb.20:09
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flailingmonkeyhow did they compare20:09
konttoriInteresting that on my 1 GHz device, Opera scored 341, and I actually took a short phone call during the benchmark.20:09
lcukopera works quite well20:09
xDaReaperxyeah opera is quiet good20:10
xDaReaperxbut it did crash for me20:10
xDaReaperxa lot of times20:10
konttoriWhat makes it interesting is that IE 8 scores 800 on core 2 duo20:10
lcukkonttori, have you had any runaway processes with OC?20:10
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flailingmonkeyi've had every browser crash at some point20:10
lcukon your 1ghz device20:10
konttorioh. nope, no issues.20:11
konttoriI usually run it @ 85020:11
konttoriBut just for this benchmark purpose tested on 1 GHz20:11
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flailingmonkeyi think people like 1ghz, because giga is sexy20:11
lcuki like the sound of n900@900 personally but dont normally talk about oc :P20:12
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konfooi had issues with OC20:12
konfoobut that was at 1ghz i think20:12
jperez26the days of the 80386.../sigh20:12
konfoovideo recorder recorded junk for audio20:13
konfoo800 is my max now20:13
timeless_mbpjperez26: ah, but do you miss the turbo button?20:13
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flailingmonkeyhow far can you underclock n900 while keeping it usable20:14
jperez26timeless_mbp: i don't think those days will ever die20:14
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jperez26i say, bring back the old 386/486, dos, epic megagames, sb16 w/ opl2/3, megarace 1 and old packard bells20:17
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andrewfblackcan N900 tether to another phone over Bluetooth for internet?20:20
xDaReaperxJoiku spot ^20:20
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andrewfblackxDaReaperx: wrong way I want N900 to borrow Internet from other phone like I used to on N81020:21
xDaReaperxhmm like if ur using gprs on another phone u want to transmit it over bluetooth and use it on your N900 ?20:22
jperez26get a mifi device :p20:22
flailingmonkeydepends on the other device20:22
jperez26lord knows i want to20:22
loufoqueuse bluetooth tethering on the other device?20:23
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andrewfblackjperez26: wont work for me, when at work only SouthernLinc phones work.  I am wanting ot teather to my SouthernLinc to get n900 interent at work for atleast downloading my emails20:23
loufoqueandrewfblack: there is a "bluetooth dial-up networking" application20:24
jperez26huh, that sucks20:24
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andrewfblackloufoque: Any idea of name, it was just built into N81020:24
* jperez26 is not so subtle20:25
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loufoqueanyone ever tried the zeemote joystick?20:27
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ShapeshifterIs there an easy way to get xprop to the n900?20:34
flailingmonkeywhat is xprop20:35
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N900lovaim baaack peeps20:36
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flailingmonkeyyes you are20:36
flailingmonkeyhow many OS have been run on the N900 now20:37
N900lovaso yous all jealous over iphone 4?20:37
Stskeepswhy would we be when we have our precious?20:37
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N900lovaright on!20:38
ShadowJKActually I'd kinda like to have the gyros ;)20:38
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luke-jrStskeeps: telnet 777720:39
Stskeepsluke-jr: that better not be ascii porn20:39
Stskeepsah, a MOO20:39
luke-jrcmon, yuo should know me better than that20:39
Stskeepstrue, redneck gnubie..20:39
SpeedEvilflailingmonkey: counding MSDOS?20:39
* Stskeeps ducks20:39
N900lovaascii porn???? da hell you talkin bout?20:40
luke-jrSpeedEvil: you got d/c btw20:40
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jacekowskimplayer -vo aa pron.avi20:41
jperez26hahaa, ascii porn...lol20:41
SpeedEvilI did?20:41
SpeedEvilumm - what?20:41
jacekowskihmm, arkadia?20:42
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luke-jrSpeedEvil: from MaeMOO20:42
N900lovascrew n8....freaking pos20:42
Stskeepswhy the fuck are they testing on gles 1.1?20:43
SpeedEvilah - no - I quit.20:43
greenflywhen when people realize it's pointless to do a feature comparison between an apple product and competitors?20:43
greenflyapple has always been a bit behind on features, but that's not why people buy them20:43
N900lovafreaking nokia20:44
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greenflyextra features are always painted as pointless and unimportant until they catch up and implement them later20:44
N900lovahow come there aint cool apps on n900???20:45
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SpeedEvilN900lova: how is xeyes not a cool app?20:46
Dassubecause your cool in our terms is considered lame.20:46
N900lovaxeyes widget yous mean???? yawn20:46
N900lovaDassu: yous an expert on coolness now?20:47
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viszfeeding the troll now?20:48
SpeedEvil not worksafe - - alternative eyes widget idea?20:48
Stskeepsi vote for hypnotoad widget20:48
N900lovavisz: discuss like a man... dont be pussy and say flame20:48
lcukStskeeps, :D20:48
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ShapeshifterI wonder where querty12 got his xprop from20:49
N900lovastupid xchat on n900....i click on link and nuthin happens....yous peeps havin problems????20:49
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: You can cheat.20:49
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: ssh -X from the n900 to desktop20:50
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: run whatever there20:50
microlithN900lova: nope, works fine for me20:50
Shapeshifterand that has an influence on local windows?20:50
ShapeshifterI didn't know20:50
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: yes.20:50
N900lovathanks peep20:50
SpeedEvilxrandr, xdpyinfo, ...20:50
xDaReaperxwill Nokia Replace the whole device incase of a hardware problem within the warranty period for free ?20:51
StskeepsxDaReaperx: did you overclock it?20:51
SpeedEvilThey will generally repair it, or try to.20:51
StskeepsxDaReaperx: did you cause the problem yourself in any way? :P20:51
flailingmonkeylmao, thats what everyone keeps asking him20:51
xDaReaperxno i didn't , the front camera  is not atall clear , its completly dark even in sunlight20:52
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xDaReaperxbought it a week back20:52
xDaReaperxor more i think20:52
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N900lovabring it back20:53
SpeedEvilxDaReaperx: Have you upgraded to pr1.2?20:54
xDaReaperxbring it back ?20:54
xDaReaperxyeah i'm on the latest firmware20:54
luke-jrhave you upgraded to Gentoo?20:54
N900lovaxDaReaperx: take it back man to where you got it20:54
xDaReaperxgentoo ?20:54
flailingmonkeygentoo, fun times compiling20:55
xDaReaperxi don't know what that is20:55
xDaReaperxi tested my front camera using Health check , Burgerface , burgerface can never detect my face20:56
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jacekowskiStandby time: Up to 300 hours20:57
jacekowskion iphone hd20:57
jacekowskithat's like 100x better20:57
Stskeepsthat is with how many lost calls?20:57
jacekowski14h talk time20:58
jacekowski7h on 3g20:58
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flailingmonkeythe front camera had some tuning in PR1.220:59
SpeedEvilI've had ~200 hours equivalent for short periods on the n900.20:59
SpeedEvil~140 is 'easy'20:59
infobotSpeedEvil: okay20:59
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SpeedEvil~forget 20020:59
infoboti forgot 200, SpeedEvil20:59
SpeedEvil~forget 14020:59
flailingmonkeywhy is anyone taking any battery claim seriously? haven't you learned yet20:59
infobotSpeedEvil: i forgot 14020:59
xDaReaperxfailingmonkey: well yeah i've read about that in the updated in PR 1.220:59
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flailingmonkeyi don't know if it would work much better in mirror, because I don't know how it accesses the camera21:01
flailingmonkeystill, its a cheap front camera21:02
xDaReaperxmy front camera shows an all greenish pic and dark when in bright light21:02
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xDaReaperxoh wait lol it is my fault, i've set my display brightness to 1 bar , now i use it on full bar , i can see my self in mirror21:03
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flailingmonkeyI wonder why that helped21:06
xDaReaperxactually i couldnt see anything when my display brightness was low21:06
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flailingmonkeyso. xchat vs. irssi on N900?21:09
* flailingmonkey votes for irssi21:10
microlithxchat :>21:10
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flailingmonkeythat scroll bar is so ugly21:10
flailingmonkeyplus, the foxmask theme from makes it work well with a white background21:11
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xDaReaperxn900 browser vote : firefox vs opera vs chromium21:15
SpeedEvilchrome is very slow for me21:15
* b-man|laptop votes chromium < small elements on the screen, but it's fast ;)21:16
SpeedEvilopera or ff.21:16
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b-man|laptopit's not for me21:16
SpeedEvilmicrob works better for me though21:16
xDaReaperxi like opera and ff21:16
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* flailingmonkey votes firefox21:17
flailingmonkeybut i haven't tried opera21:17
xDaReaperxtry it21:18
N900lovasafari wipes the floor with all of em21:18
SpeedEvilPlease go away. Or change your nick.21:18
flailingmonkey(desktop) safari is lame21:18
N900lovawhy change nick? i love N90021:18
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SpeedEvilUnless you are aware of, and willin g to share a way to get safari tunning on n900. Which would be arguably cool.21:19