| summel | i would still pay someone to make my theme-mockup real :P | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zash | SpeedEvil: but then they complain about it beeing beta hardware instead | 00:00 |
| noctule | got a link on that mockup? ;) | 00:00 |
| Duckboot | C'Mon maemo.org - Gimme som response | 00:00 |
| SpeedEvil | zash: yes. | 00:00 |
| summel | sure one second | 00:00 |
| microlith | I know, we need to cripple it and limit the functionality. Then it'll be all slick and cool. | 00:00 |
| summel | noctule: http://summel.de/stuff/maemo-theme.png | 00:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | umm | 00:01 |
| SpeedEvil | zash: neo1973 was somewhat beta hardware. But it was quite functional beta hardware with maybe 4 or 5 minor fixes that were easy to put into production. | 00:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | maemo.org down? | 00:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | nvm, it connected | 00:01 |
| Duckboot | MohammadAG51: Mmm | 00:01 |
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| Duckboot | MohammadAG51: css and gfx are atleast down | 00:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | taking ages to load | 00:01 |
| Noma | summel: what's the name of that theme? | 00:01 |
| * MohammadAG51 pings X-Fade | 00:01 | |
| summel | Noma: its just a mockup atm :/ | 00:01 |
| noctule | summel: looks nice | 00:02 |
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| summel | but as i said... i would pay someone to make it real :D | 00:02 |
| summel | thx ^^ | 00:02 |
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| Noma | well go do graphics instead of ircing?:D | 00:02 |
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| noctule | What would you have the rss + calendar widgets like? | 00:02 |
| summel | i can do graphics but i dont know how to make themes for maemo :/ | 00:02 |
| summel | and that theme maker thingy app is strange and did not really work | 00:02 |
| summel | oO | 00:02 |
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| summel | maybe because it is written in java :P | 00:02 |
| lbt | fiferboy: you reading about shopper? | 00:02 |
| * Duckboot shudders - Java? | 00:03 | |
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| summel | Noma: well... i want transparency shadows and the rest mostly black & white... and helvetica :D | 00:03 |
| noctule | summel: couldn't charge you for making it, but happily accepts donations lol | 00:03 |
| summel | noctule: you can make themes? :D | 00:03 |
| Noma | summel: windows mobile 7?:D | 00:03 |
| noctule | summel: haven't messed with theming the 900 yet, themed loads of stuff using pngs in the past | 00:04 |
| noctule | boredom + insomnia == new stuff | 00:04 |
| summel | i can make the css and hhtml for a conversation theme :) | 00:04 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: Sorry, just heading out (ironically to do some shopping) | 00:05 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: Drop me an email or we can chat tomorrow? | 00:05 |
| lbt | <shock> | 00:05 |
| lbt | sure - I'm around ... poke your kid for me ;) | 00:05 |
| fiferboy | lbt: I have company from Wales in town | 00:05 |
| noctule | summel: got a few things on atm, but will happily give it a go if someone hasn't sorted it by then | 00:05 |
| lbt | those welsh get about ... | 00:06 |
| tuliobaars | do you just talk about the n900? | 00:06 |
| summel | yay ;) i would be happy to donate then | 00:06 |
| summel | :D | 00:06 |
| Duckboot | MohammadAG51: Did you get any response from X-Fade? | 00:06 |
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| tuliobaars | this device is ridiculous like windows Vista | 00:06 |
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| summel | also i would love a nice oxygen/kde4 and a good/working lcars theme xD | 00:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | Duckboot, if he pongs it'll be here :) | 00:06 |
| summel | tuliobaars: oO | 00:06 |
| tuliobaars | oO what? | 00:06 |
| Duckboot | MohammadAG51: ;-P | 00:06 |
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| summel | why would you say that? | 00:06 |
| Duckboot | We have a troll in the building | 00:07 |
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| Duckboot | \o/ | 00:07 |
| tuliobaars | cause when they released n900, all of you forget about the classic and original NIT's (N810 and N800, maybe 770) | 00:08 |
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| tuliobaars | i'm not a troll | 00:08 |
| lbt | tuliobaars: not true | 00:08 |
| tuliobaars | good to hear that | 00:08 |
| lbt | but I can understand it feels like it :) | 00:08 |
| summel | tuliobaars: well when vista was released most people were still using XP so n900 is in no way like vista :P | 00:08 |
| lbt | tuliobaars: Mer was supposed to help a lot on that front. | 00:09 |
| tuliobaars | i feel me alone with my N8x0 projects | 00:09 |
| tuliobaars | i was kidding | 00:09 |
| tuliobaars | just to atract atention | 00:09 |
| bitphoenix | xp=good, vista=bad, n900!=bad | 00:09 |
| tuliobaars | no | 00:09 |
| lbt | hey, you'll make me feel guilty... I just released my app for N900 only :( | 00:09 |
| lbt | bitphoenix: you missed a ! after xp | 00:10 |
| tuliobaars | xp=good but ugly | 00:10 |
| tuliobaars | seven= good and pretty | 00:10 |
| tuliobaars | at least 20apps per week are launched for N900, but for Diavlo, just2 | 00:10 |
| tuliobaars | i'm really mad about that | 00:11 |
| tuliobaars | the n900 isn't a bad device | 00:11 |
| tuliobaars | just think about it | 00:11 |
| bitphoenix | i didn't say it is bad | 00:11 |
| tuliobaars | thanks for the atention, pls, continue yuor conversation | 00:11 |
| tuliobaars | i know | 00:11 |
| Kegetys | what kind of apps are you looking for? | 00:11 |
| Duckboot | tuliobaars: ;-P | 00:11 |
| tuliobaars | i'm saying | 00:11 |
| summel | isnt diablo a bit older then fremantle? | 00:12 |
| summel | :P | 00:12 |
| tuliobaars | lets make it newer! | 00:12 |
| summel | install meego | 00:12 |
| summel | xD | 00:12 |
| Kegetys | N8x0 is already pretty old and there's alot of apps for it | 00:12 |
| lbt | tuliobaars: do you know how many Diablo users came to help make fremantle run on the N8x0s? | 00:12 |
| Duckboot | Anyone got a phonenumber to someone with root-access to the servers at maemo.org? | 00:12 |
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| tuliobaars | someone that want to talk, develop, help, and talk about that question, help for projects:Skype: tulio.baars.meira | 00:13 |
| tuliobaars | i will be glad helping in something | 00:13 |
| sECuRE | i want to use jabber with SSL and proper certificate checking. i installed the cacert root certificate to /etc/ssl/certs and ran c_rehash, then rebooted the n900. it still says "network error" for this account. where can i find the whole message? | 00:13 |
| tuliobaars | just 10minute i'm getting back | 00:13 |
| tuliobaars | bye | 00:13 |
| lbt | tuliobaars: right now I suggest you focus on MeeGo for N8x0 | 00:13 |
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| Duckboot | MohammadAG51/DocScrutinizer51: Is the number of the day 51? | 00:16 |
| muelli | sECuRE: whenever you find a working method, please tell me. | 00:16 |
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| muelli | sECuRE: you can run GABBLE_PERSIST=1 GABBLE_DEBUG=1 LM_DEBUG=net /usr/lib/telepathy/telepathy-gabble | 00:18 |
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| sECuRE | muelli: hm, that also just says "SSL certificate verification failed" | 00:20 |
| sECuRE | i also put it in /etc/certs/common-ca, but that didn’t help either | 00:20 |
| sECuRE | ah, hang on, got the wrong cert file | 00:21 |
| Duckboot | certificates are a pain. | 00:21 |
| muelli | sECuRE: I don't think that OpenSSL installation repects any of those paths. That's why the Certificate Manager is there. But it doesn't work for me eith. | 00:21 |
| muelli | either | 00:21 |
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| muelli | but as I've said sECuRE. whenever you found smth working, please tell me. | 00:22 |
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| sECuRE | which process is it that does the jabber? | 00:31 |
| noctule | w00t_: Have you got a formal to-do list on portrait-keyboard? | 00:31 |
| jacekowski | sECuRE: telepathy | 00:31 |
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| sECuRE | telepathy is a framework, not a specific process running on my phone, right? | 00:32 |
| jacekowski | right | 00:32 |
| sECuRE | so which process is it? | 00:32 |
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| jacekowski | sECuRE: telepathy | 00:37 |
| sECuRE | ps | grep telepathy does not show a process named only telepathy | 00:38 |
| sECuRE | i have telepathy-{ring,sofiasip,gabble} | 00:38 |
| sECuRE | i guess it’s (mainly?) gabble? | 00:38 |
| jacekowski | yep | 00:38 |
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| tuliobaars | lbt: do you have skype: | 00:47 |
| tuliobaars | ? | 00:47 |
| lbt | yes but I rarely use it | 00:48 |
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| tuliobaars | could you give it to me? we can start a project, Kroll(Dmitriy Chirva) is already in | 00:48 |
| tuliobaars | give your skype adreess | 00:49 |
| lbt | I don't use it for that kind of thing :) | 00:49 |
| lbt | irc works fine for OSS dev | 00:49 |
| lbt | is this for N8x0 / meego ? | 00:50 |
| Duckboot | I use IRC all the time at work, for communicating with customers - Fast debugging. | 00:50 |
| tuliobaars | yeah | 00:50 |
| crashanddie | Duckboot: lucky guy, IRC was locked out for most of my customers | 00:51 |
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| pupnik | skype is better cause i can click on it | 00:52 |
| Duckboot | crashanddie: We have lots of really tecchie-customers, so they love IRC. | 00:52 |
| tuliobaars | no way to fremantle for n810??? even an hacked version | 00:52 |
| * pupnik flails | 00:52 | |
| crashanddie | Duckboot: yeah, my customers were more in bunkers and such :) | 00:52 |
| crashanddie | btw, if anyone ever has to do a brainstorm session with army or marines tech division, and nobody is saying anything, get the big cheese out of the room. They won't say a word if a superior officer is present. | 00:53 |
| tuliobaars | LOL | 00:54 |
| Duckboot | crashanddie: Hahaha | 00:55 |
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| Shapeshifter | you might wanna dismantle that army. | 00:57 |
| Shapeshifter | some bucks saved. | 00:57 |
| Shapeshifter | guy on the right has an n900 http://i.imgur.com/Ceec9.jpg | 01:02 |
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| ShadowJK | and you tricked me into clicking that | 01:02 |
| tuliobaars | i'm goin' to say why maemo doesn't have much apps | 01:03 |
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| ShadowJK | Amusingly the other platforms don't have the apps I need D: | 01:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: any news? I need the device more than ever, as it seems I'm on my own in implementing hostmode :-/ | 01:05 |
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| pupnik | nhahah Shapeshifter | 01:08 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: what do you need? | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | devel device | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | with working power button | 01:09 |
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| crashanddie | devel device? | 01:10 |
| crashanddie | as in the prototype? | 01:10 |
| crashanddie | or just an n900 device you can use for devel? | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue | 01:10 |
| crashanddie | I know | 01:10 |
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| crashanddie | wondered if I could help remotely | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900 poked qgil, seems it's moving | 01:11 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, cool. | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: cool? what? | 01:12 |
| crashanddie | "be cool." | 01:12 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, glad to hear it's moving. :P | 01:16 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, ah, sorry. | 01:17 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, misread | 01:17 |
| GAN900 | I though you said YOU poked qgil | 01:17 |
| GAN900 | I haven't heard anything yet. | 01:17 |
| Shapeshifter | just proving a point for the n900: http://stuff.moritzg.ch/DSC00038.JPG (ssh -X'ing onto my desktop, running chromium browsing grooveshark, having it play to my normal speakers) ;) | 01:19 |
| Shapeshifter | versatility ftw | 01:19 |
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| konfoo | doesn't look like a complete list there, or am i missing something? (developer device program) | 01:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | crashanddie: so probably a MP device is more adequate than a prototype that might behave differently wrt USB and charging etc | 01:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: obviously not my day. Every second word I write seems to be lost in a mysterious black hole | 01:38 |
| pupnik | that is time | 01:39 |
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| tuliobaars | SDK. Do you have? Yes. Where? Google it. I'm downloading for at least 1 month the sdk and it is still on 20%, and i have an 3MB intrent connection | 01:42 |
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| noctule | night all | 01:43 |
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| MohammadAG | the SDK is a 700MBs-ish download | 01:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | Woo! | 01:47 |
| * SpeedEvil gets online using the phone as the modem for the first time. | 01:47 | |
| haltdef | not attempted that yet | 01:48 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I've also found wackily that in addition to holding the phone in strange way s to get a sinal - propped up on the stand on my computer desk works too | 01:48 |
| MohammadAG | someone kick maemo.org in the face | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | I think someone already has. | 01:49 |
| MohammadAG | k, in the bottom then :) | 01:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume you mean WRT it being randomly lossy? | 01:49 |
| MohammadAG | or completely down | 01:49 |
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| MohammadAG | ~lart maemo.org | 02:04 |
| * infobot puts maemo.org into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of maemo.org's hair of | 02:04 | |
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| th3hate | ~slap MohammadAG | 02:08 |
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| * infobot slaps MohammadAG, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! | 02:08 | |
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| * SpeedEvil stabs N900evil. | 02:12 | |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 02:12 | |
| * DocScrutinizer stabs SpeedEvil | 02:12 | |
| SpeedEvil | I'm now connected through the n900 3G - through this computer. And the n900 just autoconnected to my wifi, and logged in. | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 02:13 |
| SpeedEvil | So, it has phone, usbnet, and wifi interfaces up. | 02:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Why the hell won't it do this when I want it to. | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | beware of feedback loops :-P | 02:14 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 02:14 |
| * MohammadAG wonders what to do, other than ranting about maemo.org being down when you need it | 02:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | and your wifi is connected to the internet via your PC and your N900? X-D | 02:15 |
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| * DocScrutinizer feels dizzy | 02:16 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: tethering? | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil1 | yes | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil1 | no | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil1 | I want to be able to simply use my n900 as a socks proxy | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you actually deprived the maemo system from access to modem :-) | 02:17 |
| SpeedEvil1 | with sshd | 02:17 |
| tuliobaars | no, i hope not | 02:17 |
| tuliobaars | but if you make it with SSh will be fine | 02:18 |
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| SpeedEvil1 | so use it over wifi as a socks proxy over the internet | 02:18 |
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| tuliobaars | prpxy noo | 02:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil1: I wonder what a ifconfig on N900 would say ATM | 02:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and of course what route looks like | 02:19 |
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| SpeedEvil1 | http://pastebin.com/gf7h1WYs | 02:20 |
| SpeedEvil1 | I diddn't check route | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil1: if you used tethering via USB, then probably the modem shouldn't show up as network device on N900 | 02:20 |
| SpeedEvil1 | possibly, yes | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | LOL maemo.org just died completely now | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG | which package is dig in? | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, phonet0 UP PTP | 02:21 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: uploading 0.2 now if yer interested. | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | maemo.org just suffering from a borked CSS as it seems | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | also some bug in JS, like | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Fehler: http://maemo.org/profile/view/joerg_rw/: ReferenceError: Can't find variable: jQuery | 02:27 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: I think it's more likely something to do with their static caching .. | 02:27 |
| alterego | Damnit, can't upload :( | 02:27 |
| MohammadAG | it's back! | 02:27 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, you can, use dput | 02:28 |
| lostinmirkwood | Have anyone here used Nokia's Remote Device Access with n900? | 02:28 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: don't have it set up. | 02:28 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, then get off your arse and set it up :P | 02:28 |
| alterego | lostinmirkwood: I don't think anyone here has used Nokias RDA at all :P | 02:28 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: how?! | 02:28 |
| * MohammadAG has, haha | 02:28 | |
| alterego | :P | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, got linux installed or something? | 02:28 |
| MohammadAG | or scratchbox (XD) | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | or both | 02:29 |
| alterego | Okay, hang on .. | 02:29 |
| * alterego done | 02:29 | |
| alterego | Got ubuntu 10.04 :P | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | well | 02:29 |
| lostinmirkwood | <alterego>, too bad seems that their installer for maemo has a bit of a bug. | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | since scratchbox is "brainfucked" (C) DocScrutinizer | 02:29 |
| alterego | I use madde .. | 02:29 |
| GAN900 | OK, so I have a question to put to those of you who have actually been involved in other opensource projects. | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | you'll need to do it once in scratchbox and once outside it (unless you're only using it inside.... oh) | 02:29 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, got something like terminal in that thing? | 02:30 |
| GAN900 | How does the burnout rate in Maemo compare? | 02:30 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: I think I'll justwait until maemo.org is back P | 02:30 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, apt-get install dput | 02:30 |
| alterego | Do you want the latest package? | 02:30 |
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| MohammadAG | me? nah, I'll probably be tempted to upload it | 02:30 |
| alterego | Heh | 02:30 |
| MohammadAG | maemo.org is back btw | 02:31 |
| alterego | Well, you can't without the source :P | 02:31 |
| MohammadAG | non-free exists for a reason | 02:31 |
| alterego | maemo.org is still being crap for me .. | 02:31 |
| MohammadAG | I can fake the .changes file | 02:31 |
| MohammadAG | got many templates for that | 02:31 |
| alterego | curses .. | 02:31 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | fakeroot apt-get install dput | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | nano /etc/dput.cf, add your username to the specific firld | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | field | 02:32 |
| alterego | What kind of authentication does it use? | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | ssh-keygen -t rsa (keep hitting enter) | 02:32 |
| MohammadAG | ssh, it uses the public key | 02:33 |
| alterego | Ah, right. | 02:33 |
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| MohammadAG | cat ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub | 02:33 |
| MohammadAG | copy the crap there into your garage profile | 02:34 |
| MohammadAG | and you're done | 02:34 |
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| alterego | Yeah, already done all of that before. | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, take care of the user@engine tail | 02:35 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, then just do a dput -f fremantle-extras-builder file_source.changes | 02:36 |
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| alterego | Well, I don't know my key, and I can't load maemo.org .. | 02:36 |
| MohammadAG | what key | 02:37 |
| MohammadAG | that's on garage.maemo.org | 02:37 |
| alterego | My pub key | 02:37 |
| MohammadAG | cat it | 02:37 |
| MohammadAG | cat ~/.ssh/rsa_id.pub | 02:37 |
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| alterego | I've already setup a key on garage, my problem is, I don't know where it is, so I'd have to do a new one, but I can't because I can't access maemo.org .. | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | define the key in https://garage.maemo.org/account/ | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, garage never went down :) | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | and you don't need a key | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | you provide the key on garage | 02:38 |
| alterego | If garage isn't down, then why is the assistant? | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | cause it uses the maemo.org theme? | 02:38 |
| alterego | It's under g.m.o? | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 02:38 |
| alterego | Oh, ghey .. | 02:39 |
| MohammadAG | but doesn't use the theme/images from maemo.org | 02:39 |
| alterego | Who's been pissing around with themes then?! | 02:39 |
| * MohammadAG points at DocScrutinizer | 02:39 | |
| MohammadAG | :P | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | see above: <DocScrutinizer> maemo.org just suffering from a borked CSS as it seems | 02:39 |
| * alterego shakes his head at DocScrutinizer :P | 02:39 | |
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| MohammadAG | huh, weird | 02:41 |
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| MohammadAG | my Nokia Messaging account got removed | 02:41 |
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| MohammadAG | and when I added it, it showed me a new TS | 02:42 |
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| MohammadAG | hey lcuk | 02:42 |
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| lcuk | heya MohammadAG | 02:42 |
| * lcuk just did something worrying | 02:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: o/ | 02:42 |
| lcuk | hiya DocScrutinizer | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | <alterego> Who's been pissing around with themes then?! | 02:42 |
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| MohammadAG | there's your answer * lcuk just did something worrying | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 02:43 |
| lcuk | nahhh | 02:43 |
| GAN900 | No input? | 02:43 |
| lcuk | just something ive wanted to do for a while | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: didn't understand the question | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | rm -rf'd root? | 02:43 |
| lcuk | i mapped and visualised when im talking in which irc channels | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | or erased /dev/mtd0... oh | 02:43 |
| lcuk | :D lol | 02:44 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, oh and use https, it works better, for some reason | 02:44 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, well, we seem to have an above average burnout rate for people in this community. | 02:44 |
| GAN900 | Compared to my perception of other open source communities | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | wouldn't be surprised | 02:44 |
| MohammadAG | burnout | 02:44 |
| MohammadAG | ? | 02:45 |
| GAN900 | But since I've never actually contributed to other open source projects, I dunno whether that's true. | 02:45 |
| GAN900 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burnout_(psychology) | 02:45 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, you didnt remind me about time | 02:45 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, I was just checking through logs | 02:46 |
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| MohammadAG | (no seriously, I was :P) | 02:46 |
| lcuk | lol | 02:46 |
| GAN900 | It's something I think Nokia is usually responsible for and it's something MeeGo isn't doing a good job of addressing. | 02:47 |
| MohammadAG | found it! | 02:48 |
| MohammadAG | lcukif i come back, someone remind me about "time" | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: ack. It's the many little obstacles that drive you mad | 02:48 |
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| jcrawfor | evening everyone | 02:48 |
| lcuk | so how do you remove the obsticles | 02:48 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, I've hit severe burnout twice. | 02:48 |
| lcuk | a | 02:48 |
| jcrawfor | damn left IRC on at work lol | 02:49 |
| * lcuk only hits burnout after a particularly strong curry | 02:49 | |
| GAN900 | lcuk, beat the shit out of the managers at Nokia and fire everybody in MeeGo Devices from the S60 division. | 02:49 |
| jcrawfor | or beans, then you may leave skid marks :) | 02:49 |
| jcrawfor | GAN900: so much hostility :) | 02:49 |
| GAN900 | jcrawfor, you'd have lots of hostility too if you'd been dealing with their bs since 2005. ;) | 02:50 |
| jcrawfor | GAN900: who says you have to deal with it? you have a choice don't you? | 02:50 |
| jcrawfor | but i do hear your pain ;) | 02:50 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, they need to stop doing everything in their power to put up roadblocks to progress. | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | jcrawfor: /ns ghost | 02:51 |
| Aranel | I wonder if it's possible to track live rates (ex. EUR to USD) from N900 easily, with an app? | 02:51 |
| GAN900 | jcrawfor, what's my choice? | 02:51 |
| GAN900 | jcrawfor, Android? iPhone? | 02:51 |
| jcrawfor | DocScrutinizer: yea i know better i just leave it though :) | 02:51 |
| lcuk | GAN900, ? | 02:51 |
| jcrawfor | GAN900: go buy an old motorolla flip on ebay haha | 02:51 |
| lcuk | Aranel, i think theres a conversion widget that could do it | 02:51 |
| Ikarus | Aranel: at what accuracy ? | 02:51 |
| lcuk | it might only lookup new price as you enter a value tho | 02:52 |
| lcuk | not sure | 02:52 |
| Ikarus | realtime on the main markets ? | 02:52 |
| Ikarus | :) | 02:52 |
| lcuk | it should be reasonably trivial to take a widget that does similar and update it | 02:52 |
| Ikarus | that's about 5 updates per second | 02:52 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, close the internal tracker, make the policy open by default instead of closed, communicate with the community, pay attention to its input, don't jettison large swaths of customers with each generation, actually support existing customers. | 02:52 |
| jcrawfor | are exchange rates delayed like US stock rates? | 02:52 |
| lcuk | just a quick wget and some grepping | 02:52 |
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| Ikarus | jcrawfor: nope | 02:52 |
| jcrawfor | ah ok | 02:52 |
| Ikarus | jcrawfor: also US stock rates are only delayed if you don't pay for them | 02:52 |
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| konfoo | gan900: what is this utopia you refer to | 02:52 |
| * Ikarus worked on market data distribution platforms | 02:53 | |
| jcrawfor | Ikarus: yea i know but what app dev is going to pay for it so that everyone can have it lol | 02:53 |
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| Aranel | lcuk: do you know it's package name? | 02:53 |
| lcuk | Aranel, nope sorry | 02:53 |
| GAN900 | konfoo, I've often been called overly optimistic. ;) | 02:53 |
| lcuk | try packages interface on maemo | 02:53 |
| lcuk | and search for currency or something | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | GAN900, maemo isn't that bad | 02:53 |
| jcrawfor | Ikarus: oh so that was your glitch that brought stocks down to a penny last month :) | 02:53 |
| Aranel | Ikarus: maybe refreshing every 5 mins from xe.com should be enough. | 02:53 |
| lcuk | GAN900.. | 02:53 |
| konfoo | gan900: anyhow i agree | 02:53 |
| GAN900 | MohammadAG, no, it's not. | 02:53 |
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| GAN900 | MohammadAG, but it's bad enough | 02:53 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: getting permission denied from dput :( | 02:53 |
| lcuk | you are aware that to close the internal tracker would cause a metric fucktonne of work | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, did you update the ssh key? | 02:53 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: yeah, how long does that take? :P | 02:54 |
| lcuk | and not trivial either | 02:54 |
| MohammadAG | GAN900, to be honest it's much more successful that symbian | 02:54 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I'd give it 15 minutes | 02:54 |
| MohammadAG | or 30 | 02:54 |
| MohammadAG | max 60 | 02:54 |
| MohammadAG | xD | 02:54 |
| alterego | Hah, | 02:54 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, maintaining two separate trackers make a fuckton of work for everybody else. | 02:54 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, I have no sympathy. | 02:54 |
| lcuk | sure | 02:54 |
| alterego | Well, it's 1am, I'm thinking of just going to sleep and leaving it until the morning proper :P | 02:54 |
| GAN900 | After dealing with the insanity it's caused over the past years. | 02:54 |
| jcrawfor | what tracker are you guys talking about? | 02:54 |
| lcuk | not really | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Aranel: search in package description | 02:55 |
| GAN900 | jcrawfor, Nokia's internal tracker. | 02:55 |
| lcuk | i dont think thats the big issue personally | 02:55 |
| GAN900 | jcrawfor, and the fact that it makes it impossible for anybody but Nokia to be involved. | 02:55 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, yeah, it's actually an institution-wide sickness. :) | 02:55 |
| lcuk | GAN900, but on the same side, theres full gitorious code for many system components | 02:56 |
| jcrawfor | i am not sure what you mean by tracker :) | 02:56 |
| GAN900 | Thus beating the shit out of all the managers and firing everybody who came from S60. | 02:56 |
| lcuk | and people are playing with HIM stuff | 02:56 |
| jcrawfor | you say tracker i think torrent site lol | 02:56 |
| lcuk | GAN900, every company in the world has its own tracker | 02:56 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, which nobody will ever accept a patch for. | 02:56 |
| alterego | jcrawfor: bug tracker :P | 02:56 |
| lcuk | GAN900, thats just bullshit and you know it | 02:56 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, oh? | 02:56 |
| GAN900 | Why do we never get patches, then? | 02:57 |
| jcrawfor | alterego: haha i cant believe i did not think of that, i live in one all day long (Jira) | 02:57 |
| GAN900 | and certainly not repeat attempts | 02:57 |
| GAN900 | Because you can count on one hand the number of significant patches Nokia has actually shipped from the community | 02:57 |
| jcrawfor | yea even as an employee i found it rather hard to submit a bug for the E72 mail app, i had to use an internal forum to report it, i think that is retarted why not have a public one that any user can add tickets to. | 02:57 |
| GAN900 | Usually they're just left to fester for years on end. | 02:57 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, frankly, I think you've lost your perspective. :) | 02:58 |
| lcuk | GAN900, dont talk about patches, ook at mers strikingly similar situation, there was a lack of people with indepth gtk knowledge for the longest time around here | 02:58 |
| lcuk | look ^ | 02:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Where's microb's source. I've been looking for it off and on, and not found it. Anyone got a pointer? | 02:58 |
| lcuk | now we have people digging into HIM and playing with the portrait keyboards and interest | 02:58 |
| lcuk | theres people looking at modest to obtain patches | 02:58 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, when people submit patches and have to wait 8 months to hear either "this product is discontinued" or "no", that's a problem. | 02:59 |
| lcuk | and if good patches come along you can bet your ass i will integrate them | 02:59 |
| lcuk | ill fudging do it personally | 02:59 |
| GAN900 | Ah, MicroB | 02:59 |
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| GAN900 | Someone the UI never actually got opened like Nokia said it would. | 02:59 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, one product does not a platform make. | 02:59 |
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| derf | GAN900: You're at all surprised? | 03:00 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, and improved performance over the past few months doesn't overcome the inertia of years. | 03:00 |
| jcrawfor | hrm GAN900 is dislexic :) does not a platform make :) | 03:00 |
| GAN900 | derf, only sometimes. | 03:00 |
| lcuk | mmm yes platform it make | 03:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Is is 'legal' for me to fix modest, and put it in extras? | 03:01 |
| SpeedEvil | (I have no intention of doing so) | 03:01 |
| GAN900 | jcrawfor, how is that dyslexic? | 03:01 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, try it | 03:01 |
| crashanddie | lmao | 03:01 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, yes. | 03:01 |
| lcuk | fix it first | 03:01 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean permitted | 03:01 |
| jcrawfor | gan saying/reading backwards :) | 03:01 |
| konfoo | rename it 'microb evolved' | 03:01 |
| konfoo | wait for the emails to roll in | 03:01 |
| crashanddie | I'm about to get banned from TMO because I said "Go back to the mental institute, mate". | 03:01 |
| jcrawfor | lol | 03:01 |
| crashanddie | in off-topic. | 03:01 |
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| GAN900 | derf, I'll say it again, I'm ever the optimist. :P | 03:02 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: uploaded now :) | 03:02 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, by whom? | 03:02 |
| crashanddie | note to self: start using ":P" more often, everywhere, at the end of every line. | 03:02 |
| derf | GAN900: Personally, I'm only ever surprised pleasantly. | 03:02 |
| GAN900 | and why are you wasting time in off-topic? | 03:02 |
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| crashanddie | because the rest bores me? | 03:02 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, in all seriousness, make some changes and lets go through the motions | 03:02 |
| derf | Did I miss something? Does lcuk work for Nokia now? | 03:02 |
| crashanddie | well, I'm bored everywhere, really | 03:02 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, you'll miss the importer | 03:02 |
| GAN900 | derf, I have much to learn. ;) | 03:02 |
| lcuk | if they are good, i can try my best to get it integrated | 03:02 |
| GAN900 | derf, sort of? | 03:02 |
| derf | What the hell does "sort of" mean? | 03:03 |
| * GAN900 can see the Kool-Aid is strong there. | 03:03 | |
| lcuk | derf ive been on the fremantle application framework team for a while now | 03:03 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: That was merely an example. | 03:03 |
| GAN900 | derf, one of Nokia's numerous contractors. | 03:03 |
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| MohammadAG | <crashanddie> I'm about to get banned from TMO because I said "Go back to the mental institute, mate". | 03:03 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: It's looking like I'm more likely to be emitting kernel patches in the near future. | 03:03 |
| MohammadAG | where, can't find it :P | 03:03 |
| lcuk | sure SpeedEvil but gfi | 03:03 |
| crashanddie | derf: lcuk has been working for Nokia for nearly 20 years. NSA. Nokia Secret Agency. They recently allied with the FBI (Fun Bunch at Intel), and will probably merge to become the KGB. Kool Gang of Brothers. | 03:04 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: yeah - there has been the false impression that lots more is actually closed than really is. | 03:04 |
| crashanddie | MohammadAG: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=697242&postcount=3 | 03:05 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, might as well be closed with the over-the-wall mentality. | 03:05 |
| lcuk | and SpeedEvil theres certainly much more emphasis on patch taking recently | 03:05 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN900: Well - yes. | 03:05 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN900: But if it's not impossible to stick replacement versions of system software on extras... | 03:05 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, depends on the software. | 03:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Or alternatively, a community repo - though that will have regrettably less traffic | 03:06 |
| SpeedEvil | GAN900: yeah. | 03:06 |
| crashanddie | how do you write stuff to replace system stuff when the APis are documented? | 03:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm anticipating JRBME may have problems. | 03:06 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: it's quite easy. | 03:06 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if there was a missing not in tehre. | 03:06 | |
| lcuk | someone has reimplemented the calendar widget for maemo in OSS :) | 03:07 |
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| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: well, then, if it's so easy, can you show me a quick python ICD2 daemon example that intercepts the "connected to wifi" signal, calls a callback to establish the connection to wifi hotspot, and then sends the signal "All ready to go"? | 03:07 |
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| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: sorry, meant "when the APIs _aren't_ documented" | 03:08 |
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| lcuk | crashanddie, technically you make your own | 03:08 |
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| lcuk | or reveng | 03:09 |
| lcuk | but bah | 03:09 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: the framework is there. Everything exists. It's just not documented | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Reverese engineering what BME must do is not - fundamentally hard. | 03:09 |
| lcuk | autodocs from the libraries | 03:09 |
| lcuk | then start fleshing them out manually | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | For example. | 03:09 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: well, it's built fine, I'm going to bed now :P | 03:09 |
| lcuk | yeah and tbh i am happy with leaving that box right where it is for now | 03:09 |
| SpeedEvil | We have [[N900 Hardware Charge Meter]] and [[N900 Hardware Battery Charger]] docs. | 03:09 |
| Termana | good morning | 03:09 |
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| MohammadAG | night alterego | 03:10 |
| SpeedEvil | This is a large slice of the pie, combined with the electrical knowledge as to how to charge lithium batteries. (which is not complex) | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | now it's official. today the nets suck | 03:10 |
| SpeedEvil | You then need to work out - strace, dissasembly, reading APIs, checking dbus introspection, ... what it's talking to, and why. And then work out what format that's in. | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | damn, and I missed the whole fun | 03:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Then drop in a reverse engineered component. | 03:11 |
| SpeedEvil | naah. | 03:11 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, sounds entirely like any linux component :p | 03:11 |
| * lcuk still misses how clear the documentation for vb6 was :) | 03:12 | |
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| lcuk | it read like the amiga basic manual | 03:12 |
| SpeedEvil | It's easy to miss edge cases though. | 03:12 |
| lcuk | sure | 03:13 |
| SpeedEvil | For example, if BME signals 'battery on fire' | 03:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | And you haven't tested it with an on-fire battery. | 03:13 |
| microlith | tmo needs to be cleansed with fire | 03:13 |
| Ikarus | SpeedEvil: atleast we know the BME doesn't implement battery authentication (Nokia wasn't quite that paranoid on the N900) | 03:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | portscan :-/ | 03:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WTF?! 3.0.190.85.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer proxyscan.freenode.net. | 03:15 |
| lcuk | looks like it does what it says on the tin | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 03:16 |
| lcuk | but if you havent got anytihng on that port why are you being pestered | 03:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Ikarus: yes. | 03:16 |
| lcuk | ie why have you got your firewall configured to paranoid | 03:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but I wonder if it's just an incidentally that my DSL gone down | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: that's just my NAT log showing a massive portscan | 03:18 |
| Termana | How do you connect the fact that your being port scanned by freenode and your DSL going down... | 03:18 |
| Termana | I mean MAYBE if you were being flooded with port scans | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: dunno | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | the router running that NAT is Zyxel crap | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe it just rebooted or something | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | can't say which end dropped the DSL | 03:20 |
| * SpeedEvil wishes for opendsl | 03:20 | |
| DocScrutinizer | whatever that means | 03:20 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, and you didn't just, you know, trip over the cord accidentally? :P | 03:21 |
| SpeedEvil | An open-source DSL modem. | 03:21 |
| SpeedEvil | With an A/D, a DAC, and a processor, and a fully open source DSL modem stack | 03:21 |
| Termana | SpeedEvil, isn't that what OpenWRT it about? | 03:21 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 03:21 |
| Termana | is* | 03:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: nothing like that | 03:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Termana: OpenWRT basically ignores the whole modem part, as it's complex and hard. | 03:22 |
| SpeedEvil | OpenWRT things that work with DSL do it by using the original closed binaries. | 03:22 |
| MohammadAG | frals, you want me to read all of this? http://www.pygtk.org/pygtk2tutorial/index.html XD | 03:23 |
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| * MohammadAG starts wget -m, he'll need them this summer holiday | 03:23 | |
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| *** Docscrutemp is now known as DocScrutinizer51 | 03:23 | |
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| asj | SpeedEvil: odd how no company wants to release an ATM+ADSL2+ stack into the open, wonder why ;) | 03:24 |
| * toresbe just prefers to have a Linux box do the routing and leave the DSL to some embedded software that's usually able to deal with that well | 03:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer | Ikarus: battery authentication? :-o Now that sounds nasty - like printer cartridge chips | 03:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | asj: I happen to have a DSL modem that is crap, and I'd like to replace it - but I can't. It's got a comedy coding rror. | 03:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | asj: normally, you can request to the exchange that you get an increased margin. The exchange sets the default margin at times very high. For example, due to occasional noise on my line - occasionally as high as 20dB. | 03:26 |
| Ikarus | DocScrutinizer: Nokia has been considering it, due to third party batteries catching fire and the like | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | asj: that's because there's lots of know how in that stack, to squeeze the most out of the line | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | asj: The comedy error is that if instead of saying 'adsl snr 30' - to set the margin to 3dB more than the exchange wants - as added security - I can say 'adsl snr 65520' - to set it to lots less than the exchange wants. | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ikarus: insane | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Yes. | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | It couldn't have anything at all to do with the fact that nokia makes profits onbatteries. | 03:27 |
| Ikarus | SpeedEvil: actually no | 03:28 |
| Ikarus | SpeedEvil: given that they have had the tech ready for years | 03:28 |
| Ikarus | just never implemented it because the problem is less bad now | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | They are shaving costs. | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 03:29 |
| SpeedEvil | They omitted a charge monitor chip from the bat, for example. | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | gta02-battery FTW | 03:29 |
| SpeedEvil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=54117&highlight=charge+meter - for example - people thinking hals idea of the batteyr capacity means something | 03:30 |
| asj | DocScrutinizer: having writen dsl drivers, and worked on closed source atm stack yes I'm very aware of that, see the ;) | 03:31 |
| Ikarus | SpeedEvil: actually that is one hell of a common cost saving :( | 03:31 |
| SpeedEvil | asj: I actually also for some reason I ahven't worked out - get considereably higher downstream performance if I knock out a fair number of the upstream carriers. | 03:31 |
| Ikarus | ie, I don't have a phone battery or netbook battery with charge monitor | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | I do | 03:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and IIRC that was about some additional 6 bucks / battery, for GTA02 | 03:33 |
| asj | SpeedEvil: mmm, I could speculate as to why, but that wouldn't seem unreasonable. Given the environment adsl lives in it's kind of amazing to see how well it works | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | asj: yeah. I guess it's some nonlinearity on the line | 03:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | asj: As I read the standards - there is no modeling of that int he training sequence | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: harmonics? | 03:34 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | or IM | 03:34 |
| SpeedEvil | I think harmonics rather than IM | 03:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: (training) yep. Though asj should know better ;-P | 03:35 |
| asj | SpeedEvil: if you had enough details you should be able to read back exactly why...but alas... :) | 03:35 |
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| asj | (a vs b was better I mean) | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | asj: yes - step 0 would be instrumenting an existing stack. Which is often tricky. | 03:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | I cheated. | 03:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | I assumed two blocks cut out of the DSL upstream would give best response. I tried them all, till I found the optimum one that gave a sane upstream margin and best downstream performance. | 03:37 |
| SpeedEvil | ~700 retrains. | 03:37 |
| asj | SpeedEvil: you need a girlfriend ;) | 03:38 |
| * asj runs | 03:38 | |
| SpeedEvil | It was two lines of shell. | 03:38 |
| SpeedEvil | And, yes. | 03:38 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders a personal ad. 'Wanted - Girl with machine shop. Send picture (of shop)'. | 03:39 | |
| asj | the responses might scare you | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 03:40 |
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| MohammadAG | <asj> SpeedEvil: you need a girlfriend ;) | 03:42 |
| MohammadAG | relationships are overrated | 03:42 |
| MohammadAG | it's exciting the first year | 03:42 |
| MohammadAG | the second year gets normal | 03:43 |
| MohammadAG | third year the complaints start | 03:43 |
| konfoo | haha | 03:43 |
| MohammadAG | 4th year you get kids, and then your life tumbles downhill | 03:43 |
| asj | SpeedEvil: oddly enough, I met my wife on a linpeople (which grew into freenode) | 03:43 |
| konfoo | wait till you hit 10 | 03:43 |
| lcuk | except this advice is coming from a teenager, so change years to days | 03:43 |
| MohammadAG | XD | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 03:43 |
| MohammadAG | well, kids aren't that bad | 03:44 |
| konfoo | i have two kids, they are great | 03:44 |
| konfoo | everyone else's kids are bad.. there's the distinction | 03:44 |
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| MohammadAG | well, relationships eventually kill your early outside life | 03:46 |
| MohammadAG | #maemo killed mine | 03:46 |
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| luke-jr | MohammadAG: fail | 03:47 |
| MohammadAG | ~fsck luke-jr | 03:47 |
| infobot | e2fsck /dev/luke-jr : warning! filesystem contains idiots! | 03:47 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: not all relationships are marriage | 03:47 |
| MohammadAG | <3 that one | 03:47 |
| luke-jr | and the whole point of marriage is kids | 03:47 |
| MohammadAG | luke-jr, I was referring to that part | 03:47 |
| MohammadAG | <MohammadAG> 4th year you get kids, and then your life tumbles downhill | 03:48 |
| luke-jr | no, that's the beginning | 03:48 |
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| MohammadAG | make it 4+, it varies :P | 03:48 |
| luke-jr | and you'd need to have some kind of disorder to take 4 years | 03:48 |
| MohammadAG | luke-jr, how old are you :) | 03:48 |
| luke-jr | 24 I think | 03:48 |
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| luke-jr | 25 in a few days if correct | 03:48 |
| MohammadAG | I think <-- lol | 03:48 |
| pigeon | hmm, i met my wife on the good old days text mud... | 03:48 |
| luke-jr | 1985 | 03:48 |
| konfoo | haha | 03:49 |
| luke-jr | yeah, I'll be 25 | 03:49 |
| konfoo | 1985, damn | 03:49 |
| asj | pigeon: what was she on the mud, date we ask ;) | 03:49 |
| luke-jr | married, 4 kids so far | 03:49 |
| konfoo | in 1985 i was making chlorine bombs and beating on the amiga keyboard | 03:49 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 03:49 |
| pigeon | asj: as in? | 03:49 |
| asj | pigeon: yeah | 03:50 |
| * MohammadAG got lost | 03:50 | |
| *** bernie is now known as bernie_afk | 03:50 | |
| * pigeon got lost too. | 03:50 | |
| asj | MohammadAG: N N E E W S N E | 03:50 |
| MohammadAG | Riiight..., what? | 03:50 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: n00b | 03:50 |
| luke-jr | those are obviously directions | 03:51 |
| luke-jr | north, north, east, east, west, south, north, east | 03:51 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders | 03:51 | |
| konfoo | sigh | 03:51 |
| luke-jr | east + west must imply some kind of magic/trap | 03:51 |
| MohammadAG | luke-jr, I'm not sure #maemo allows swear words, so I'll use $SWEARWORD instead | 03:51 |
| pigeon | asj: ;) | 03:51 |
| SpeedEvil | I think you banged against the door of the knights guild. | 03:51 |
| *** radic_ is now known as radic | 03:51 | |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: Many muds had bits with noneuclidian directions. | 03:51 |
| asj | luke-jr: no no, you fell down a hole | 03:52 |
| luke-jr | asj: ah | 03:52 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 03:52 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: As the rooms were simply linked nodes, not a proper map. | 03:52 |
| * MohammadAG kinda remembered portal | 03:52 | |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: I'm aware; still bad design in most cases :) | 03:52 |
| MohammadAG | for some reason | 03:52 |
| * MohammadAG wants Portal 2 | 03:52 | |
| asj | MohammadAG: You feel a presence behind you... | 03:52 |
| MohammadAG | asj, nah, it's just a portal I forgot to close *fires orange gun* | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | postal! | 03:53 |
| MohammadAG | Portal! | 03:53 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, you really should try it :) | 03:53 |
| asj | there was a mud I used to love, then it was overrun by pkillers and stopped being any fun | 03:53 |
| MohammadAG | I know you might not be a gamer, but... it's a smartass's game | 03:53 |
| MohammadAG | wtf is a mud | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm out for a postal walk in the night :-P | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | cya | 03:54 |
| MohammadAG | cya | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Think WOW - but in text | 03:54 |
| asj | MohammadAG: it's a darker version of a moo | 03:54 |
| * MohammadAG forwards two minutes later, wb Doc | 03:54 | |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, World of Worldcraft? ewww :) | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Sort-of. | 03:55 |
| asj | MohammadAG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD | 03:55 |
| luke-jr | asj: lol, usually MOO is described in terms of MUD, not vice-versa | 03:55 |
| asj | luke-jr: bah | 03:55 |
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| MohammadAG | RPGs, bah | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | It's one of the major reasons I don't beat on people who get addicted to WOW/... too badly. | 03:55 |
| MohammadAG | I hate RPGs :) | 03:55 |
| SpeedEvil | As I lost much of a year to muds. | 03:55 |
| luke-jr | I grew up in a MOO | 03:55 |
| MohammadAG | FPSs ftw | 03:56 |
| luke-jr | MOOs make MUDs look lame | 03:56 |
| luke-jr | :D | 03:56 |
| * MohammadAG wonders if anyone in here has a PS3 | 03:56 | |
| * lcuk sighs | 03:56 | |
| lcuk | i miss portal | 03:57 |
| konfoo | muds were nothing like wow | 03:57 |
| MohammadAG | yay, at least someone played it :) | 03:57 |
| konfoo | first off, people had genuine interest - not many online idiots to pollute the place | 03:57 |
| konfoo | second: no gfx | 03:57 |
| konfoo | third: no gfx | 03:57 |
| asj | luke-jr: I could have said MOO is to Second Life as a Mud is to WoW? | 03:57 |
| MohammadAG | <konfoo> first off, people had genuine interest - not many online idiots to pollute the place | 03:57 |
| lcuk | says that guy playing maemo on an ascii irc channel | 03:57 |
| * MohammadAG looks at talk.maemo.org | 03:58 | |
| luke-jr | asj: maybe. I never got Second Life to work | 03:58 |
| MohammadAG | I guess history does repeat itself | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | konfoo: I would argue that the lack of graphics is orthogonal. | 03:58 |
| konfoo | mohammed: haha well true in that sense | 03:58 |
| asj | luke-jr: people buiding huge unpopulated worlds and online sex | 03:58 |
| b-man|laptop | lol | 03:58 |
| luke-jr | asj: then no | 03:58 |
| konfoo | orthogonal in what sense | 03:58 |
| luke-jr | MOO is all about programming | 03:58 |
| lcuk | asj, thats second life | 03:58 |
| luke-jr | and socialization | 03:59 |
| lcuk | theres more to rpg than flying penises | 03:59 |
| asj | luke-jr: so is SL ;) | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | konfoo: In that gameplay can be - broadly - similar with or without graphics. | 03:59 |
| luke-jr | which might seem contradictatory, but... not quite | 03:59 |
| luke-jr | asj: SL is probably not as programmable | 03:59 |
| lcuk | penii? | 03:59 |
| asj | luke-jr: the furries would be no where without programming ;) | 03:59 |
| konfoo | speed: well ofcourse, everything is a variation of pong | 03:59 |
| * lcuk . o O ( i never thought i would be trying to work out the plaural of penis ) | 03:59 | |
| luke-jr | graphics greatly restrict the extensibility of programming | 04:00 |
| konfoo | but a graphical game encourages no thought or imagination, it's a visual bowl of dogfood | 04:00 |
| lcuk | yup | 04:00 |
| luke-jr | it's much easier to say "The thing bites Wizard's toes." than to try to make an animated model of it | 04:00 |
| lcuk | and it works sometimes | 04:00 |
| * b-man|laptop trys to get a handle on how this strange conversation has started between you guys | 04:00 | |
| konfoo | well, it's how you describe the wizard's toes | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | konfoo: Well - you get a _wide_ variety of muds. | 04:00 |
| konfoo | and the thing | 04:00 |
| lcuk | that description is art in itself | 04:00 |
| lcuk | its story telling | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | There is that. | 04:01 |
| konfoo | speed: im not saying all text adventures or muds are equal, far from it | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | But the playstyle, and the story element varies enormously in scope. | 04:01 |
| luke-jr | anyone here play on Elandor or whatever it's called now? | 04:01 |
| lcuk | we read books without graphics and enjoy them | 04:01 |
| MohammadAG | lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gdc2010_newell_portal_BSOD.jpg | 04:01 |
| lcuk | and there are MANY more books than there are games | 04:01 |
| luke-jr | formerly Middle Earth MUSH | 04:01 |
| konfoo | muds/text adventures were also a much slower pace | 04:01 |
| b-man|laptop | rofl | 04:01 |
| lcuk | konfoo, speak for yourself | 04:01 |
| MohammadAG | (yes, I know it's not a real BSOD :p) | 04:01 |
| b-man|laptop | MohammadAG, +1 | 04:02 |
| lcuk | mavis beacon told me i could type at 90wpm | 04:02 |
| lcuk | l | 04:02 |
| lcuk | l | 04:02 |
| lcuk | l | 04:02 |
| lcuk | l | 04:02 |
| MohammadAG | b-man|laptop, read the title in the BSOD | 04:02 |
| asj | I wonder if any muds/mush/moos still exist in a large way? | 04:02 |
| lcuk | e | 04:02 |
| lcuk | r | 04:02 |
| konfoo | you had time to absorb what you had read, decide and contemplate what to do, use imagination, etc | 04:02 |
| luke-jr | asj: the one I mentioned seems to | 04:02 |
| MohammadAG | GlaDOS | 04:02 |
| ptl | GlaDOS | 04:02 |
| luke-jr | LambdaMOO still has constant over 100 online at any time | 04:02 |
| lcuk | :) | 04:02 |
| asj | thank got the n900 has telnet ;) | 04:02 |
| konfoo | lcuk: besides moving around | 04:02 |
| luke-jr | MOO is very popular among the blind, I've noticed | 04:02 |
| b-man|laptop | MohammadAG: lol | 04:02 |
| luke-jr | asj: telnet sucks | 04:03 |
| *** zhenhua has quit IRC | 04:03 | |
| konfoo | tangentially, interactive fiction | 04:03 |
| ptl | I just used ICA Client for ARM over tsocks to access my company's intranet bug tracker :O awesome | 04:03 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, not sure it's gonna be like the first one http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Portal2-testchamber.jpg | 04:03 |
| lcuk | konfoo, how fast can you respond to conversation in a channel? | 04:03 |
| MohammadAG | I would've settled for extra test champers | 04:03 |
| *** lopz has quit IRC | 04:03 | |
| konfoo | lcuk: clearly not the same thing | 04:04 |
| luke-jr | motion to move #Maemo to a MOO | 04:04 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, o_O | 04:04 |
| lcuk | konfoo, why not? | 04:04 |
| luke-jr | 511 online... | 04:04 |
| * Termana slowly creeps behind luke-jr | 04:04 | |
| lcuk | reacting to stimulus and writing "drop sword" | 04:04 |
| Termana | luke-jr is unable to see Termana | 04:04 |
| MohammadAG | luke-jr, count both bots you racist | 04:04 |
| * luke-jr suddenly drops dead. | 04:04 | |
| konfoo | lcuk: i dont have to reply to you immediately | 04:04 |
| lcuk | is just like turning a corner on a gp race | 04:04 |
| konfoo | i could reply to you next year if this were an if game | 04:04 |
| * Termana runs away | 04:04 | |
| lcuk | konfoo, but the fudging grue is after me | 04:04 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: my client literally says "511 nicks"; is it wrong? | 04:04 |
| konfoo | lcuk: ha | 04:04 |
| * ptl casts a ressurrecting spell upon luke-jr. | 04:05 | |
| konfoo | i dont recall the grue being on a timer :P | 04:05 |
| MohammadAG | luke-jr, lag | 04:05 |
| MohammadAG | * lopz has quit (Quit: Saliendo) | 04:05 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: fail | 04:05 |
| MohammadAG | damn interwebz | 04:05 |
| lcuk | konfoo, good for you, i however pressed the turbo button on my ibm pc | 04:05 |
| luke-jr | so, MaeMOO anyone? | 04:05 |
| lcuk | that damn character gave me nightmares | 04:05 |
| MohammadAG | /cs kick #maemo luke-jr | 04:05 |
| Termana | luke-jr, Have you mooed today? | 04:06 |
| konfoo | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FP5IDs-KKk for luke-jr | 04:06 |
| b-man|laptop | ~moo | 04:06 |
| MohammadAG | apt-get moo | 04:06 |
| * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass | 04:06 | |
| *** zhenhua has joined #maemo | 04:06 | |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 04:06 |
| b-man|laptop | xDD | 04:06 |
| Termana | b-man|laptop, lol | 04:06 |
| *** panaggio has joined #maemo | 04:07 | |
| MohammadAG | ~debian b-man|laptop | 04:07 |
| * infobot tells b-man|laptop to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! | 04:07 | |
| b-man|laptop | LOL | 04:07 |
| * MohammadAG hands infobot her pills | 04:07 | |
| b-man|laptop | ~ubuntu MohammadAG | 04:07 |
| * infobot lovingly explains to MohammadAG in a way that causes MohammadAG to weep with gratitude that MohammadAG must read the fine, friendly manual | 04:07 | |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 04:08 |
| MohammadAG | ~fedora b-man|laptop | 04:08 |
| * infobot tells b-man|laptop that becoming RHCP certified, is The One True Way to Supreme Linux Knowledge | 04:08 | |
| b-man|laptop | ~gentoo MohammadAG | 04:08 |
| * infobot recompiles MohammadAG again | 04:08 | |
| b-man|laptop | xD | 04:08 |
| MohammadAG | what's gentoo all about | 04:08 |
| MohammadAG | is it like a linux distro with no package manager? | 04:08 |
| pwnguin | MohammadAG: you know BSD ports? | 04:09 |
| b-man|laptop | it's a distribution where every package that is installed via portage (the package manager) is compiled by source | 04:09 |
| konfoo | its like a distro with a package manager on crack | 04:09 |
| MohammadAG | pwnguin, too young to know that | 04:09 |
| b-man|laptop | *from source locally | 04:09 |
| MohammadAG | b-man|laptop, well, that ra**s the CPU... | 04:10 |
| b-man|laptop | lol | 04:10 |
| pwnguin | MohammadAG: basically, gentoo is like Debian if no developer could agree on any technical decision | 04:10 |
| b-man|laptop | yup xD | 04:10 |
| luke-jr | telnet nat.router.dashjr.org 7777 | 04:10 |
| luke-jr | ftw | 04:10 |
| pwnguin | and portage basically the coping mechanism for this | 04:10 |
| MohammadAG | so | 04:10 |
| MohammadAG | portage only downloads the source, and runs make + make install | 04:10 |
| MohammadAG | I could do the same and release my own distro | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG | should prolly call it MAG | 04:11 |
| pwnguin | MohammadAG: it also lets you customize compiler flags distrowide | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG | cool, not | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 04:11 |
| pwnguin | and set crazy optimization levels | 04:11 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder if I can sue MAG for using my initials | 04:11 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: it automatically does it for updates too | 04:11 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: and works with screwed up non-configure systems | 04:11 |
| luke-jr | but seriously guys | 04:12 |
| MohammadAG | luke-jr, how does it handle dependencies | 04:12 |
| luke-jr | join MaeMOO! | 04:12 |
| luke-jr | telnet nat.router.dashjr.org 7777 | 04:12 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: by installing them first | 04:12 |
| pwnguin | MohammadAG: http://funroll-loops.info/ | 04:12 |
| pwnguin | MohammadAG: portage trees contain the same dep info debian does | 04:12 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: the real power is in USE flags and being able to mix-and-match stable with testing or even unstable | 04:13 |
| MohammadAG | I'll stick to Debian | 04:13 |
| b-man|laptop | you can also install binary package via portage if you don't want to wait for them to compile | 04:13 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: sounds good | 04:13 |
| luke-jr | b-man|laptop: only if binaries exist | 04:13 |
| luke-jr | which they generally don't | 04:13 |
| b-man|laptop | true | 04:13 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 04:14 |
| b-man|laptop | is Arch any good? | 04:14 |
| *** SpeedEvil has quit IRC | 04:15 | |
| luke-jr | guys, MaeMOO... | 04:15 |
| luke-jr | take the chat there | 04:15 |
| luke-jr | :D | 04:15 |
| konfoo | im there | 04:15 |
| luke-jr | yeah, only you :P | 04:15 |
| konfoo | haha | 04:15 |
| *** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo | 04:15 | |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: telnet nat.router.dashjr.org 7777 | 04:16 |
| MohammadAG | we got it | 04:16 |
| MohammadAG | also, I can't connect :P | 04:16 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: why? | 04:16 |
| b-man|laptop | * Welcome to MaeMOO! | 04:17 |
| b-man|laptop | * Type 'connect <username> <password>' to login, or 'create <username> <password>' to join. | 04:17 |
| b-man|laptop | * I don't understand that. Valid commands at this point are | 04:17 |
| MohammadAG | * Looking up nat.router.dashjr.org | 04:17 |
| MohammadAG | * Connecting to nat.router.dashjr.org (98.179.29.76) port 0... | 04:17 |
| MohammadAG | * Connection failed. Error: Connection refused | 04:17 |
| luke-jr | ... | 04:17 |
| luke-jr | b-man|laptop: so type a valid command | 04:17 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: you forgot the 7777 | 04:17 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 04:17 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: your telnet client is broken | 04:17 |
| * MohammadAG uses xchat | 04:17 | |
| luke-jr | ... | 04:17 |
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| MohammadAG | * <BR><BR>This is not a webserver. Try connecting with a telnet client.<BR><BR> | 04:18 |
| MohammadAG | * *** Disconnected *** | 04:18 |
| MohammadAG | * Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). | 04:18 |
| MohammadAG | fu | 04:18 |
| MohammadAG | XD | 04:18 |
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| MohammadAG | I.. seriously don't get it | 04:20 |
| * MohammadAG is off | 04:20 | |
| MohammadAG | Night | 04:20 |
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| luke-jr | hmm | 04:23 |
| luke-jr | there's a way to DCC send a MOO I remember | 04:23 |
| luke-jr | I forget how tho | 04:23 |
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| luke-jr | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=704672#post704672 | 04:27 |
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| luke-jr | there, I contributed to the less developer side of the Maemo community | 04:27 |
| luke-jr | :p | 04:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | neat | 04:33 |
| * SpeedEvil needs tio work out why his kernel will not boot | 04:33 | |
| * ptl needs to work out. | 04:34 | |
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| SpeedEvil | oh - 810 | 04:34 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders commenting 'this won't boot on my n900'/ | 04:34 | |
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| pigeon | hmm, static.maemo.org is down or something... | 05:13 |
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| redeeman | hello, im having a problem logging onto a wireless network, its setup without any encryption or stuff, but my n900 thinks there is, it says: "wifi protected setuo compliant" and wants me to use some button on the ap to autoconfigure or enter in some pin on the ap, but it has neither of those functions... if i do iwlist wlan0 scan on my linux laptop it shows just a standard master mode no encryption open AP | 05:15 |
| redeeman | any ideas? | 05:16 |
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| pigeon | redeeman: i had similar issue on the weekend with someone's wireless ap, i just go into settings -> internet connections and add the ap connection and it worked. | 05:22 |
| redeeman | thank you, will try it right now | 05:22 |
| pigeon | yeah we couldn't figure what that pin method thing is, and there is no button on the ap either. | 05:23 |
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| redeeman | its connecting it seems | 05:23 |
| redeeman | wills ee if it works now | 05:23 |
| redeeman | it seems it has worked, its searched for updates | 05:24 |
| redeeman | pigeon, thanks alot | 05:24 |
| pigeon | cool, np. | 05:24 |
| redeeman | now i just hope it supports powersaving | 05:24 |
| redeeman | otherwise i should have brought an AP myself | 05:24 |
| redeeman | im in the phillipines, came from denmark | 05:25 |
| redeeman | so well :) | 05:25 |
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| pigeon | ah | 05:26 |
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| Dassu | anybody else having problems with skype continously reconnecting when the wifi power save is set to high? | 07:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | known issue | 07:15 |
| Dassu | :( | 07:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | rumour has it it depends on your particular AP | 07:15 |
| Dassu | Pretty sure thats the case since I have no problems in my school | 07:16 |
| swc|666 | tcpdump it | 07:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | swc|666: won't help. That's protocol layer | 07:16 |
| swc|666 | what's protocol layer | 07:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | beacons and shit | 07:17 |
| swc|666 | hmm | 07:17 |
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| swc|666 | still a pcap would be my first instinct ;) | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | in monitor mode yes | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe | 07:18 |
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| swc|666 | Dassu, insall tcpdump and upload the cap file | 07:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then you won't see the same behavior when you put N900 wifi into monitor mode :-P | 07:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you'd need to listen to the OTA with a separate protocol device, so N900 goes to powersave mode | 07:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | which in monitor it obviously doesn't | 07:21 |
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| swc|666 | dump it from the AP | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a valid way, if AP can do that | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | openWRT probably can | 07:22 |
| swc|666 | it can | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then openWRT probably also has no problems with N900 PSM | 07:22 |
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| swc|666 | Dassu, when you say itpower save was set to high, you meant high powersave or vice versa? | 07:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, you'll have to use your laptop, and a wifi dongle with monitor mode supported, and then start ethereal | 07:23 |
| swc|666 | s/itpower/power | 07:23 |
| swc|666 | there's a few ways to debug it | 07:24 |
| swc|666 | no idea what he means about the continous reconnecting though, haven't seen the bug report | 07:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe the wlan kernel driver has a debug parameter? | 07:29 |
| Dassu | swc|666: powersave yes | 07:29 |
| swc|666 | wl12{xx,51} is ugly | 07:30 |
| Dassu | swc|666: this started happening to me after PR 1.2 but skype was already unusable before it. (The calls would stutter) | 07:30 |
| swc|666 | hence i'm contracting a driver dev for packet injection | 07:30 |
| Dassu | However with powersave set to medium or low would fix the problem | 07:30 |
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| * swc|666 has 2 spare batteries and doesnt believe in saving power | 07:32 | |
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| swc|666 | DocScrutinizer, ah now i put 2+2 together | 07:34 |
| swc|666 | = joerg | 07:34 |
| swc|666 | :) | 07:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe the wlan kernel driver has a debug parameter? | 07:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | though I guess even that woulldn't help much. Probably on powersave active N900 just ignores queries from AP which results in AP disconnecting the client | 07:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | this won't show up directlyin a kernel driver log | 07:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | you could spot easily though when e.g. dissecting a airodump full packet trace, done from a 3rd machine | 07:38 |
| swc|666 | there are debug params | 07:38 |
| asj | DocScrutinizer51: I don't buy that | 07:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | asj: what exactly? | 07:39 |
| asj | DocScrutinizer51: the AP knows the station is doing power-save poll and won't wake up till a beacon goes out with data waiting set | 07:39 |
| asj | (and can ignore many beacons) | 07:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm. on sane AP for sure | 07:40 |
| swc|666 | keyword = sane | 07:40 |
| asj | DocScrutinizer51: there are no sane APs | 07:40 |
| swc|666 | heh | 07:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well, maybe it's all muuuuuuch more complex and nasty. WLAN is a bitch | 07:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | but basically you got exactly 2 vectors to tackle it: either compare all parameters of a working and a borked AP. Or analyze the tarffic between N900 an borked AP | 07:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | 1. is the easy way, 2nd should always solve the problem | 07:45 |
| swc|666 | i vote for traf analysis | 07:45 |
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| swc|666 | although i have to say, wl1251 has been nice for me on eap-ttls | 07:45 |
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| swc|666 | sometimes i have to rmmod/modprobe the driver after a couple of days though | 07:46 |
| swc|666 | kvalo is a nice guy and all, but i think wl12xx was a "rush job" | 07:47 |
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| swc|666 | hence there are other issues with it | 07:47 |
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| jaem | 'evening | 07:57 |
| Stskeeps | morn | 07:58 |
| jaem | One of our N900s was acting flaky the other night, and now it seems fine :/ | 07:59 |
| jaem | It /would/ figure that as soon as we ask Nokia about it, it starts working agin. | 07:59 |
| jaem | s/agin/again/ | 07:59 |
| infobot | jaem meant: It /would/ figure that as soon as we ask Nokia about it, it starts working again. | 07:59 |
| jaem | Has anyone else had random un/locking or booting happen when applying pressure on the left side of the bezel? | 08:00 |
| jaem | Since we got it from the local office, they'll take care of it, but I can't prove it's broken. Heh. | 08:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | shouldn't | 08:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | tbh sounds like a severe hw bug | 08:08 |
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| RST38h | jaem: hw is sneaky, it never exhibits symptoms when you are ready to do away with it | 08:11 |
| jaem | RST38h, Heh, yeah. | 08:14 |
| jaem | It didn't act up before that, either, which is odd. | 08:14 |
| jaem | I don't know where exactly it came from, though... | 08:15 |
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| RST38h | carry a ritual screwdriver when around it! | 08:15 |
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| jaem | It's a retail unit, given to us by the local office, with a stupid European plug. | 08:15 |
| jaem | RST38h, any suggestions on brand? ;) | 08:15 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | european pugs are NOT stupid >:-( | 08:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | torx T6 always looks megacool | 08:17 |
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| jaem | DocScrutinizer51, Who would design a plug that needs an adaptor to fit into a socket? They're /obviously/ crazy. ;) | 08:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | :-P it only fits into smart sockets | 08:19 |
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| jaem | DocScrutinizer51, Torx are fun... but then there are those other ones... "torK" or some such, which look similar, but aren't. | 08:20 |
| jaem | Heh. | 08:20 |
| RST38h | jaem: no specific brand preferences, but of course it has to be made of titanium =0 | 08:21 |
| * RST38h prefers European plugs. US/japan ones are too flimsy, and the UK one looks like it has been made for electric chairs | 08:22 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: ack | 08:25 |
| microlith | japan's are worse | 08:26 |
| microlith | they rarely have ground pins :/ | 08:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | taiwan same: US w/o PE | 08:27 |
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| RST38h | Russian ones rarely have ground pins too. Otherwise, they are just like European ones | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so you frequently have the flimsy US plug, with an equaly flimsy adapter which just extends the 2 main contacs, sitting 8 in a row in a megaflimsy multiple socket abot 30mm wide | 08:32 |
| RST38h | Except maybe an older version, not suited for recessed sockets | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and trying to unplug them is really hazardous | 08:32 |
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| RST38h | well it is 110V | 08:34 |
| derf | It isn't the voltage that kills you, it's the amps. | 08:35 |
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| RST38h | derf: But the amps are a function of the voltage and your skin resistance | 08:36 |
| RST38h | So, given the same skin, higher voltage will kill you better. Maybe even roast you a bit, in the process. | 08:37 |
| jaem | RST38h, thank you. derf's statement is a common line that annoys me. :S | 08:37 |
| pigeon | does anyone know which imap server(s) work with modest with showing only subscribed imap folders? | 08:37 |
| jaem | derf, No offence meant. | 08:37 |
| RST38h | jaem: derf is essentially correct though | 08:37 |
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| RST38h | jaem: One thing that follows from his statement is that you should never work with high voltage when drunk or tired | 08:38 |
| jaem | RST38h, well, yes, but the statement usually implies a lack of knowledge about the laws involved. | 08:38 |
| RST38h | jaem: even 24V may be enough in those cases | 08:38 |
| jaem | And yes, I agree. :P | 08:38 |
| jaem | Heh... yes. | 08:38 |
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| frals | bah, static.maemo.org still borked | 08:40 |
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| pigeon | indeed | 08:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | in Germany, 42V are considered safety limit | 08:41 |
| RST38h | Ethernet is 50V btw ;) | 08:42 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | iirc | 08:42 |
| frals | X-Fade: static.maemo.org seems borked | 08:42 |
| * frals goes back to bed | 08:42 | |
| asj | RST38h: ethernet is most certainly not 50v | 08:43 |
| RST38h | I may be mistaking it for something then, a moment | 08:43 |
| asj | true IEEE PoE is ~40 some | 08:43 |
| RST38h | Ah, I know where I got it | 08:44 |
| RST38h | 48V is the telephone network signaling voltage | 08:44 |
| asj | pots lines, those still exist? | 08:45 |
| asj | 96v on ring, hold onto a ringing phonel line for a thrill | 08:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's Vpp though | 08:46 |
| asj | yes, and at 10hz it sucks | 08:47 |
| asj | (us ringing, no clue about the rest of world) | 08:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | isn't it 25Hz? | 08:47 |
| asj | you wouldn't feel 25hz like this I would expect...<shrug> | 08:48 |
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| dl9pf | POE is 48V, safety limit is 50V | 08:53 |
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| RST38h | asj: 96V when ringing? Ah, come on, it got higher than that =) | 08:55 |
| asj | RST38h: that was the spec I thought | 08:56 |
| RST38h | asj: Except that granny's telephone made god-knows-when never complied with the spec =) | 08:56 |
| asj | RST38h: just like it's not 48, it's 50 upto 60v, since 48v is just 4*12v for the lead acid batteries and they are sitting on charge | 08:56 |
| RST38h | asj: (at least in USSR, I guess they might have had better telephones in the US :)) | 08:56 |
| asj | RST38h: it's no the phone that provides the power, it's the telco co | 08:56 |
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| RST38h | asj: Don't forget about the feedback | 08:57 |
| asj | RST38h: can't speak for russian phone, I thought in soviet russia the phone's rang you ;) | 08:57 |
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| RST38h | asj: The ringer is basically a coil. When rininging, it creates feedback | 08:57 |
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| RST38h | asj: So, yes, the voltage could easily get higher than 2*48. | 08:57 |
| asj | RST38h: don't know how russian phones worked, but that's not how north american phones did | 08:58 |
| RST38h | asj: Somehow, I suspect that all phones worked the same :) | 08:58 |
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| asj | RST38h: with that logic you would assume all TV standards would be same too ;) | 08:59 |
| RST38h | asj: Not really, but then I *know* TV standards are different | 08:59 |
| RST38h | asj: The phone network standards are worldwide though. | 09:00 |
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| asj | RST38h: umm, E1 vs T1 would prove that wrong, so would the whole OC vs SDH system | 09:00 |
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| asj | RST38h: if they can't even agree on ulaw vs alaw for voice I'm not sure local loop would be better | 09:01 |
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| RST38h | That came much much later though ;) | 09:03 |
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| * RST38h sighs and goes to work. | 09:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer | SELV (Safety Extra Low Voltage) where no isolation needed, is <25V AC, <60V DC. For sensitive areas there is a special protective Voltage of 42V defined. | 09:03 |
| asj | RST38h: yeah after they invented a way to talk to each other they couldn't agree on a standard, could it be much better when they had to write letters? ;) | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleinspannung | 09:04 |
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| Scifi | First time Git user here. Can anyone help? | 09:04 |
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| asj | Scifi: whacha need? | 09:05 |
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| Scifi | asj: error "unable to chdir or not a git archive" when i run the command "git push ssh://drop.maemo.org/git/vicar/" | 09:08 |
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| Scifi | vicar is my project and I have the ssh keys set up (i think) | 09:08 |
| asj | and is /git/vicar a git repo? | 09:09 |
| Scifi | During project creation i selected Git if thats what you are asking | 09:10 |
| asj | (never used drop.maemo.org) | 09:10 |
| Scifi | https://garage.maemo.org/scm/?group_id=1586 | 09:11 |
| Scifi | this is the project page, it says git too (as opposed to svn for some projects) | 09:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and 600Ohm POTS was sufficently alike all over the world so a phond would work everywhere | 09:11 |
| Scifi | asj: what do u use generally? http to push to git rep? | 09:11 |
| asj | Scifi: just different localtions | 09:12 |
| asj | Scifi: did the git clone ssh://.... work? | 09:12 |
| Scifi | first time it creates an empty repository with branch master only | 09:12 |
| Scifi | I mean yest, git clone ssh:// works | 09:13 |
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| asj | and then you copied in files, commited them, then tried to push and it failed? | 09:13 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | (pots) major diffs: pulse/pause ratio of rotary dial, allowable ringer equivalence, frequency of ring signal, and later flash/hook duration | 09:15 |
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| asj | DocScrutinizer51: changing the pulse/pause ratio isn't a small change | 09:17 |
| Scifi | asj: Small confusion here, git clone ssh:// failed with the same error (not a git archive) | 09:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's marginal though, exchanges work with both standards usually | 09:18 |
| asj | DocScrutinizer51: ok | 09:18 |
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| asj | (not like anyone uses pulse dialing anymore) | 09:18 |
| Scifi | asj: but git clone https://vcs.maemo.org/git/vicar worked | 09:18 |
| asj | Scifi: ah, perhaps the ssh keys are wrong? | 09:19 |
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| Juozapas | hi how to install midnight commander? i can't found it on extras repositories | 09:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | asj: something like 1:1 vs 1.1:0.9 | 09:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | iirc | 09:19 |
| Scifi | asj: earlier it was giving public key error, so i created the file ~/.ssh/config and entered the details as per the instructions in garage | 09:20 |
| asj | DocScrutinizer51: kind of amazing they are so similar considering how many different telcos and everything sprung up. You have to consider this started in the 20s | 09:20 |
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| Scifi | asj: I don't need to ssh. Even https: is fine if it works | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah | 09:20 |
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| asj | intersting, ovi chat takes less power that google talk | 09:22 |
| pigeon | hmm, that n900 usb host mode thing is interesting... how does it work? | 09:22 |
| asj | Scifi: no clue | 09:22 |
| Scifi | asj: i think i am getting somewhere, dropped the whole ssh thing. Now trying https only | 09:23 |
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| Scifi | got a different error, master -> master (non-fast-forward) | 09:23 |
| asj | Scifi: pull first | 09:23 |
| Scifi | asj:ok | 09:24 |
| asj | Scifi: on a push most repos won't allow a non ff merge since that could be bad | 09:24 |
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| * Scifi frantically googles what fast forward merge means | 09:25 | |
| Mece | scifi -a helps :) | 09:26 |
| Scifi | Mece: blame the spelling suggestions :) | 09:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | pigeon: still a lot of patches in kernel missing for a reliable operation | 09:27 |
| asj | Scifi: everything is in a nice straight line, esentially | 09:27 |
| Scifi | asj: tried pull and doing push now, it is doing something which is good | 09:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pigeon all we got so far is a proof it's possible | 09:27 |
| pigeon | ok | 09:28 |
| pigeon | so it's done at software level? what about the hardware? | 09:28 |
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| Scifi | asj: i did a local git init, add and commit before the remote pull and push, will my changes be pushed? | 09:29 |
| luke-jr | Scifi: what makes you think you can do that? | 09:29 |
| asj | Scifi: keep things simple, just clone the remote repo | 09:29 |
| Scifi | luke-jr: general noobness :) | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pigeon: hw is 'fine' basically | 09:30 |
| pigeon | so the hw does support usb host to start with? | 09:30 |
| Scifi | asj: i was getting some error | 09:30 |
| Scifi | will try again | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes | 09:30 |
| pigeon | right, ok | 09:30 |
| asj | Scifi: and yes you most certainly can do that, but your life is more complicated since you have multiple, oh what's the git term, well locations. Which is fine, but it defaults to using "origin" for many things, otherwise you have to specicy which one you want and that's just going to confuse you | 09:31 |
| Scifi | asj: git pull and push failed anyway. So I take that git clone is the way to go (to avoid unnecessary headaches later) | 09:33 |
| asj | Scifi: you have to init the repo, you can't pull into an empty directory | 09:33 |
| asj | Scifi: git clone does that | 09:33 |
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| Mece | asj, is there something in the remote repo? | 09:34 |
| asj | Mece: no it's empty...should be fine no? | 09:34 |
| Mece | err sorry scifi is what I meant. | 09:34 |
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| Scifi | Mece: it is empty, i am trying push for the first time | 09:34 |
| Mece | ok. | 09:35 |
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| asj | Scifi: just do this: git clone <url>; add files; git add ...; git commit -a; git push; | 09:35 |
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| Scifi | asj: cloned, "git add ." is not working. How do I add multiple files? I have multiple sub-folders and files | 09:36 |
| asj | Scifi: git add --help | 09:36 |
| Mece | scifi git add . adds everything under current dir. | 09:37 |
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| asj | give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life | 09:37 |
| Mece | LOL | 09:37 |
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| Scifi | asj: "git add ." --> fatal: Not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git | 09:42 |
| Scifi | this is where i started of :) | 09:43 |
| asj | Scifi: what did the git clone say? | 09:43 |
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| Scifi | git clone was successful, it created vicar/.git/ folder structure under my current folder | 09:44 |
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| asj | Scifi: then you did "cd vicar" right? | 09:44 |
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| Scifi | asj: yes but if i am in ./vicar I am not able to access my code which is in the parent directory | 09:45 |
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| asj | Scifi: move your code.... | 09:45 |
| asj | Scifi: everything must be in the repo | 09:45 |
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| Scifi | asj: sorry confused, /home/scifi/vicar/vicar-0.2 is my current folder which has all the code | 09:46 |
| asj | (of course it's git so there's other options for the nit pickers on how to do the clone, but this is easy. Clone creates a dir, but everything under that dir, which is the local repo) | 09:47 |
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| Scifi | ok then will move the code to the subdirectory created by clone | 09:47 |
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| Mece | scifi, copy instead ;) | 09:48 |
| asj | yeah copy, safer | 09:48 |
| Scifi | ok | 09:48 |
| asj | though I'm thinking rm might be safer for the world </mean> ;) | 09:49 |
| Mece | hehhe | 09:49 |
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| asj | Scifi: git can be confusing...though have you ever dealt with any source control? | 09:49 |
| pigeon | damn, modest and imap folder subscription is quite annoying :( | 09:50 |
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| Scifi | ask: Rational ClearCase :) | 09:50 |
| Scifi | *asj | 09:50 |
| asj | not sure how git compares, I don't think it compares to anything... | 09:51 |
| Scifi | I am from windows world | 09:51 |
| Scifi | asj:nope not at all, but the concepts commit, branch etc are same | 09:51 |
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| Mece | scifi, well git works fine in windows too. it's exactly the same. | 09:51 |
| asj | Scifi: any linux experience? | 09:51 |
| Scifi | asj: U mean development? started one month ago, released a Qt app to extras-devel :) | 09:53 |
| Scifi | have end-user experience on Solaris, Ubuntu :) | 09:53 |
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| Mece | scifi, git is special because the repo is local, so you can work with local version control and push to server when you feel like it. | 09:54 |
| asj | Scifi: ok, it would be big learnign curve to jump into linux fresh from windows and start devel | 09:54 |
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| Mece | scifi so how is the git doing now? making progress? | 09:55 |
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| Scifi | Mece: I think i'll like it once i get it working for the first time. Same with developement too. Git is pushing the code now | 09:55 |
| asj | Scifi: sounds like you got the hang of it | 09:56 |
| Scifi | asj: Was/am a Java, from eclipse to gcc was indeed a big jump :) | 09:56 |
| asj | Scifi: have you looked at madde? | 09:56 |
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| Scifi | asj: Yes but didn't quite like it as much as Qt Creator + Scratchbox on Ubuntu | 09:57 |
| Scifi | I am used to Ubuntu and I am not scared by command line :) | 09:57 |
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| asj | Scifi: ok | 09:58 |
| furunk3l | yes hello | 09:58 |
| Scifi | asj: git says it is successful | 09:59 |
| Scifi | let me check on server | 09:59 |
| asj | Scifi: congrats | 09:59 |
| Scifi | yes I see it in garage. | 09:59 |
| Scifi | asj: Thank you very much | 09:59 |
| Scifi | Mece: Thanks alot :) | 10:00 |
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| pigeon | git it, git it good :) | 10:07 |
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| frals | bah, annoying modest doesnt show if ppl are cc'd on the mail unless you hit reply all | 10:14 |
| frals | need to use that button by default ;[ | 10:14 |
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| Appiah_ | or check message details | 10:16 |
| Appiah_ | thats how I do it | 10:16 |
| Appiah_ | wouldn't hurt with a To: / cc: field | 10:17 |
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| noobmonk3y | .me winges | 10:19 |
| * noobmonk3y even | 10:19 | |
| noobmonk3y | meh | 10:20 |
| noobmonk3y | my n900 is fooked | 10:20 |
| Duckboot | noobmonk3y: Wuut? | 10:20 |
| noobmonk3y | just woken up and it won't turn on :( - white light, nokia screen, then long fading yellow led | 10:20 |
| Duckboot | noobmonk3y: Reflash ;-P | 10:20 |
| noobmonk3y | meh 40 | 10:20 |
| noobmonk3y | minutes till work | 10:20 |
| noobmonk3y | not around tonight | 10:20 |
| Duckboot | noobmonk3y: Or kickstart it with a wall-charger | 10:20 |
| noobmonk3y | pants pants pants | 10:20 |
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| * noobmonk3y has no wall charger - girlfriend stole it | 10:21 | |
| noobmonk3y | so last 2 nights been charging of laptop | 10:21 |
| noobmonk3y | :P | 10:21 |
| Duckboot | noobmonk3y: Slap her with a trout. | 10:21 |
| * noobmonk3y will | 10:21 | |
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| noobmonk3y | grrr and i really dont like my e71 | 10:21 |
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| noobmonk3y | ayone seen the long yellow led before? | 10:24 |
| noobmonk3y | anyone* | 10:24 |
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| frals | charge it some more! | 10:24 |
| Duckboot | Anyone know of a good alternative for xterm on the N900? | 10:25 |
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| * noobmonk3y slaps frals with Duckboot | 10:25 | |
| noobmonk3y | Duckboot, nope :( | 10:25 |
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| noobmonk3y | but then i only just understand what x-term is :P | 10:26 |
| Duckboot | noobmonk3y: ;-P | 10:26 |
| Duckboot | Hmmm - Might have to port some shit then - But I'm a real N00b when it comes to GUI-shit. | 10:27 |
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| noobmonk3y | :P | 10:27 |
| noobmonk3y | frals, do you ever sleep? | 10:27 |
| frals | i slept almost all night! | 10:28 |
| noobmonk3y | wow | 10:29 |
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| noobmonk3y | hmmm would leaving my phone plugged into my turned off n900 last night, actually sucked the juice out of it? still confused..... | 10:29 |
| noobmonk3y | meh | 10:30 |
| noobmonk3y | *laptop | 10:30 |
| noobmonk3y | *laptop plugged into my turned off n900 | 10:30 |
| Duckboot | Gonna try out rxvt for a Terminal app | 10:30 |
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| noobmonk3y | oooo got nokia hands | 10:30 |
| noobmonk3y | yay and a desktop! | 10:31 |
| frals | told you to charge it! | 10:31 |
| * noobmonk3y hasnt | 10:31 | |
| noobmonk3y | but yeah 1% battery lol | 10:31 |
| noobmonk3y | went to sleep with 80% :| :| :| | 10:31 |
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| * noobmonk3y goes to work :( | 10:34 | |
| frals | you were reencoding your homemade pron and seeding it as a torrent | 10:34 |
| noobmonk3y | lols!!! | 10:34 |
| Appiah_ | :D | 10:34 |
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| anvith3 | hi all. i have tried to make a touch to speech application and for the touch part i used the code available for the raw input. the same one used to calibrate the screen. right now i am able to access only the window i create. how do i get access to the desktop? i know i have to use the window manager but not much luck with any documentation. can anybody here help put | 10:34 |
| anvith3 | sorry help out* | 10:34 |
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| blub_ | frals: you pointed me the the cpython code which inserts SMS into conversation | 10:35 |
| blub_ | so does anyone know how to "poll" a file in /sys/? | 10:35 |
| anvith3 | the code makes use of X11/Xlib | 10:35 |
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| anvith3 | another doubt . is there anyway to make a window transparent in Xlib? | 10:36 |
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| blub_ | I tried with pyinotify but since these filese seem to be opened-accessed-closed all the time this makes no sense | 10:36 |
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| blub_ | in particular I want to read the ambient light intensity and when a treshold is reached execut something | 10:37 |
| frals | blub: ah, np. :) | 10:37 |
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| Duckboot | Nice - rxvt upp and running on my N900 | 10:38 |
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| Duckboot | Hmmm - Wasn't that useful really - But the default xterm seems to have crippled UTF-8 support. | 10:42 |
| Duckboot | I need an XTerm with _full_ UTF8 support | 10:42 |
| Appiah | err | 10:43 |
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| Appiah | half UTF-8 Support? | 10:43 |
| Appiah | what's that like | 10:43 |
| Duckboot | Appiah: You know like inverted question-marks. | 10:43 |
| jacekowski | that's font problem | 10:44 |
| Duckboot | jacekowski: So? Make xterm use another font? | 10:44 |
| jacekowski | that's an option | 10:44 |
| Duckboot | I haven't really touch any font-settings for my xterm | 10:44 |
| cehteh | uxterm? | 10:44 |
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| Duckboot | Damnit - My spelling is crap this morning. | 10:45 |
| pigeon | the xterm on my n900 seems fine with utf-8 | 10:45 |
| pigeon | chinese japanese for instance are fine | 10:45 |
| Duckboot | pigeon: Probs some font-problem then. | 10:45 |
| Duckboot | xterm->ssh->screen->irssi = Fucked UTF-8 | 10:46 |
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| jacekowski | pigeon: well, | 10:46 |
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| jacekowski | Duckboot: nope | 10:46 |
| frals | Duckboot: screen -U? | 10:46 |
| jacekowski | Duckboot: that's locales problem | 10:46 |
| jacekowski | -U is useless | 10:46 |
| jacekowski | you need working locales | 10:46 |
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| jacekowski | ٩(-̮̮̃-̃) ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩(̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾)۶ ٩(-̮̮̃•̃)۶ ٩͡[๏̯͡๏]۶ | 10:47 |
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| jacekowski | who saw that? | 10:47 |
| frals | o/ | 10:47 |
| jacekowski | correctly? | 10:47 |
| nas_ | wat ? | 10:47 |
| frals | i assume so | 10:48 |
| frals | ascii dudes waving and whatnot | 10:48 |
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| nas_ | what is the charset , so I can set it on chatzilla ? | 10:48 |
| jacekowski | utf-8 | 10:48 |
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| jacekowski | frals: they are not ascii dudes | 10:48 |
| jacekowski | frals: they are unicode dudes | 10:49 |
| frals | well, charcater dudes! ;P | 10:49 |
| Duckboot | jacekowski: I though as much - I really hates locales - All should use UTF8 - period | 10:49 |
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| jacekowski | Duckboot: unicode is inefficient | 10:49 |
| nas_ | once more paste ? ;) | 10:49 |
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| jacekowski | Duckboot: these dudes are 101k long | 10:49 |
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| jacekowski | ٩(-̮̮̃-̃) ٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶ ٩(̾●̮̮̃̾•̃̾)۶ ٩(-̮̮̃•̃)۶ ٩͡[๏̯͡๏]۶ | 10:49 |
| nas_ | arabic or something ? ... | 10:50 |
| jacekowski | no | 10:50 |
| cehteh | 〠 | 10:50 |
| Duckboot | jacekowski: Me using manhours in getting this to work from different systems is inefficient. | 10:50 |
| jacekowski | besides, locales can be set per user | 10:50 |
| jacekowski | take a look at your bashrc | 10:50 |
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| Duckboot | jacekowski: Bah - I think .bash_profile is a better place. | 10:53 |
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| jacekowski | hmm | 10:55 |
| jacekowski | that file doesn't exist | 10:55 |
| jacekowski | it's either .profile | 10:55 |
| jacekowski | or .bashrc | 10:55 |
| jacekowski | there is no .bash_profile | 10:55 |
| jacekowski | but you are free to use it anyways | 10:55 |
| Duckboot | I used .profile | 10:55 |
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| Duckboot | ��� | 10:57 |
| Duckboot | Bah | 10:57 |
| Duckboot | brb - testing | 10:58 |
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| swc|666 | mhm | 10:59 |
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| mhmh | http://i48.tinypic.com/ipclfm.png phone beeing shipped on repair tomorrow :/ | 11:02 |
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| Duckboot | Finally - screen -U did the trick | 11:02 |
| frals | ^_^ | 11:02 |
| Appiah | mhmh: hmm | 11:02 |
| frals | may i say "told you so" now? ;D | 11:02 |
| Appiah | I read about that beeing a common problem | 11:02 |
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| Duckboot | defutf8 in the .screenrc did not do the trick | 11:03 |
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| Appiah | hope my usb port does not fail | 11:03 |
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| mhmh | mmm.. just hope i get it fixed on the warranty.. they could easily claim it's damagedbecause of all the large scratched i got on it :) | 11:03 |
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| Duckboot | Netsplit (Rejoins)? | 11:04 |
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| wazd | hello people :) | 11:08 |
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| wazd | any Londoners in here? | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | you going? | 11:11 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: no, not me yet :) | 11:11 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: my sister :) | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:12 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: o/ btw :) | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | lo wazd | 11:12 |
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| mece | Hello | 11:16 |
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| pupnik_ | hi mece alone in a sea of lurkers | 11:22 |
| Duckboot | Not lurking - Trying to work on my other PC. | 11:25 |
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| Duckboot | Hmmm - I was wondering - Last evening there was some mumbling about a "Community Driven Appstore" - That was actually a very good idea. | 11:30 |
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| Duckboot | So that Dev could get a small token of gratitude for their work - Not much, but a small sum - It would surely make it more attractive to develop software for the N900. | 11:32 |
| Appiah | maybe something flattr-ish? | 11:32 |
| Appiah | http://flattr.com/ | 11:33 |
| Duckboot | Hmmm - Not bad - *BRB* meeting. | 11:33 |
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| * wazd still looking for londoners | 11:37 | |
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| blub_ | anyone got maemo specific answere to this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2995664/how-to-poll-a-file-in-sys | 11:44 |
| mece | Appiah, flattr could be pretty sweet for maemo people actually. | 11:45 |
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| mece | pupnik, heh so alone that I zoned out a bit there :D | 11:46 |
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| mece | wazd, check the n900 map thing. | 11:49 |
| mece | regarding flattr: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=524623&postcount=13 | 11:49 |
| wazd | mece: For what? :) | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: lists n900 / maemo peeps in various locations | 11:51 |
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| wazd | mece: Stskeeps: aaah, *that* map :) | 11:53 |
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| alterego | I used dpu to upload a package to the builder last night, it's built okay, how do I push it to devel? | 11:56 |
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| X-Fade | alterego: To testing you mean? | 11:58 |
| frals | packages submitted to builder should get auotimported to devel :o | 11:58 |
| alterego | Well, it's not showing up in extras-devel .. | 11:58 |
| X-Fade | alterego: package name? | 11:58 |
| alterego | media-im-status-updater | 11:59 |
| MohammadAG51 | X-Fade, oh and maemo.org was down yesterday | 11:59 |
| MohammadAG51 | or the static.maemo.org part of it | 11:59 |
| alterego | I used dput during the downage .. | 11:59 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: Yeah, static had issues. | 11:59 |
| alterego | Though I'm sure that's not the problem :P | 11:59 |
| alterego | Thought it was that bloody cache :P | 11:59 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: you get about as much sleep as I do it seems :) | 11:59 |
| X-Fade | alterego: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-June/023261.html | 12:00 |
| X-Fade | alterego: Pretty sure that that was not a complete build. | 12:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, maybe this a PEBUCK too :P | 12:00 |
| alterego | X-Fade: you know, I thought it looked odd. | 12:00 |
| X-Fade | alterego: I'll resubmit and see what happens. | 12:00 |
| alterego | Shall I resumbit? | 12:00 |
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| alterego | Okay | 12:00 |
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| MohammadAG51 | alterego, well, slept at 4, woke up at 10 | 12:01 |
| alterego | :) | 12:01 |
| alterego | 6 hours is pretty good. | 12:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | I stayed up for 2 days once | 12:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | xD | 12:01 |
| alterego | I've ben awake about 3 hours :/ | 12:01 |
| mece | grr still no sign of my talk karma. I need my KARMAAAAAAAA | 12:02 |
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| alterego | mece: why? :P | 12:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | infobot, karma MohammadAG | 12:03 |
| infobot | mohammadag has neutral karma | 12:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | fu | 12:03 |
| mece | lol | 12:03 |
| mece | infobot, karma mece | 12:03 |
| infobot | mece has karma of 1 | 12:03 |
| mece | woo! | 12:03 |
| Appiah | infobot, karma Appiah | 12:03 |
| infobot | appiah has karma of 1 | 12:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | infobot, racist | 12:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | infobot, karma MohammadAG51 | 12:03 |
| mece | LOOOOL | 12:03 |
| Appiah | yay this means I'm better then you MohammadAG51 ! | 12:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | Appiah, nah, it's just racist | 12:03 |
| X-Fade | alterego: build looks a lot better now. | 12:03 |
| mece | lol | 12:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | infobot, fsck infobot | 12:04 |
| mece | anyway, | 12:04 |
| alterego | X-Fade: thanks, Ithought it looked a bit funky last night .. | 12:04 |
| MohammadAG51 | see? now it's ignoring me | 12:04 |
| infobot | rumour has it, racist is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYcDP9Wl7so | 12:04 |
| infobot | mohammadag51 has neutral karma | 12:04 |
| infobot | e2fsck /dev/infobot : warning! filesystem contains helpdesk workers! | 12:04 |
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| anvith3 | can anybody explain to me how to make a program a daemon on maemo 4 (diablo) . i have read the documentation but its a little overwhelming for me. i have found two python scripts for daemonizing a process. one is the start, stop, restart main file. the other has to be overloaded to execute my process. i can't make head or tail of where to install these files. any help will be appreciated. please.:) | 12:04 |
| mece | alterego, I was looking at the testing votes, and noticed that a friend of mine had almost 3 times the karma, and I couldn't figure out why. I've always felt really noobish when everywhere I look people have more karma than me. Well turns out one has to connect the dots between maemo.org and talk. Which I hadn't done. So that's why my karma wasn't going anywhere. | 12:05 |
| Appiah | isnt there a maemo development channel? | 12:05 |
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| MohammadAG51 | #maemo-devel, but most of the users there are here | 12:05 |
| Appiah | oh | 12:05 |
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| alterego | mece: yeah, I found that out a few days ago, not bothered doing it yet though :D | 12:06 |
| Appiah | I gave up trying to write a app yesterday | 12:06 |
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| Appiah | the "SDK" is so confusing | 12:06 |
| mece | appiah, yeah, but all you see there are tumbleweed | 12:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | it's piss easy to use | 12:06 |
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| Appiah | nothing I launched showed up | 12:06 |
| X-Fade | ~seen qwerty12 | 12:07 |
| infobot | qwerty12 <n=faheem@Maemo/community/contributor/qwerty12> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 186d 14h 43m 23s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'. | 12:07 |
| X-Fade | Hmm what happened to him ;) | 12:07 |
| Duckboot | X-Fade: He bought an iPhone? | 12:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | X-Fade, I doubt he's coming back, already asked him :( | 12:08 |
| mece | X-Fade, perhaps Khertan got angry and threw him out? | 12:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol | 12:08 |
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| alterego | I thought he just changed his name .. | 12:08 |
| mece | MohammadAG51, wait what? are we talking #maemo or the community in general? | 12:08 |
| MohammadAG51 | #maemo | 12:09 |
| mece | MohammadAG51, oh porque? | 12:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | pourquoi | 12:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | xD | 12:09 |
| mece | heh | 12:09 |
| mece | why? Did he say why? | 12:09 |
| alterego | How do I find out when the next extras-devel import will occur? | 12:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | and I'm not even french | 12:09 |
| mece | alterego, by waiting :) | 12:09 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, :5 and :35 | 12:09 |
| alterego | Heh | 12:10 |
| alterego | Ah, 25 minute sthen | 12:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | mece, nothing you can't guess :) | 12:10 |
| MohammadAG51 | yep, you missed it again | 12:10 |
| alterego | :P | 12:10 |
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| X-Fade | alterego: I was wondering about ruby1.8, can we get it in a promotable shape? | 12:11 |
| X-Fade | alterego: I see your name in there too ;) | 12:11 |
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| alterego | Sure, I'll work on it | 12:11 |
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| X-Fade | It seems debian/optify -> auto needs to be added and a bugtracker url, or change section to development. | 12:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | X-Fade, that only works for python apps right? | 12:13 |
| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: No? | 12:13 |
| MohammadAG51 | last time I tried it with a C app it failed | 12:14 |
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| X-Fade | MohammadAG51: It should just work. | 12:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | X-Fade, well it didn't :) | 12:15 |
| mece | X-Fade, MohammadAG51, Current wesnoth has that, and fails to optify. I've actually (poorly) packaged a new version that uses /opt/wesnoth/ as prefix. But haven't uploaded yet. am a little unsure about how to do it wisely. | 12:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | i used maemo-optify in debian/rules | 12:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | see X-Fade? :) | 12:16 |
| X-Fade | Well that is another option. | 12:16 |
| mece | MohammadAG51, no wait, wesnoth has a file containing the word auto. | 12:16 |
| X-Fade | For simple things it should work, otherwise file a bug ;) | 12:16 |
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| crashanddie | ~ping | 12:24 |
| infobot | ~pong | 12:24 |
| crashanddie | man, gotta love static IPs | 12:24 |
| crashanddie | router lost connection, rebooted, restarted wifi, and no disconnection from IRC. WIN! | 12:24 |
| crashanddie | my life is awesome. | 12:25 |
| Herwood | hehheh, sounds great ;) | 12:25 |
| MohammadAG51 | <crashanddie> man, gotta love static IPs | 12:26 |
| MohammadAG51 | except for IP bans | 12:26 |
| Appiah | why would you get banned MohammadAG51 ? are you doing bad stuff on ze internetz? | 12:26 |
| MohammadAG51 | Appiah, cause most users are racist, take infobot for example | 12:27 |
| MohammadAG51 | :) | 12:27 |
| Appiah | :) | 12:27 |
| MohammadAG51 | or if I piss off crashanddie | 12:27 |
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| Duckboot | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55531 <- Discuss | 12:31 |
| Appiah | whats wrong with the Ovistore? | 12:32 |
| Appiah | (have not used it | 12:32 |
| Appiah | ) | 12:32 |
| crashanddie | Duckboot: you don't need the ovi store | 12:32 |
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| crashanddie | Duckboot: paypal + licence key works great, you know. | 12:32 |
| sivang | morning all | 12:33 |
| MiXu-_ | Duckboot: I don't see how another small time appstore would help | 12:33 |
| thp | Duckboot: publish your app as non-free on Maemo Extras + do the paypal thingie | 12:34 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: fancy having a look at this release and seeing if you think it's in a fine state to go to testing? Not sure if I've missed any control fields or sommat. | 12:34 |
| sivang | http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1309/1442790483_ba50f3f8b2.jpg | 12:34 |
| MiXu-_ | I've successfully bought stuff from Ovi on N900. I don't see the problem | 12:34 |
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| Duckboot | Please ppl - I don't develop anything. I tought of this as a way of making the interest of making apps greater. | 12:35 |
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| Shapeshifter | Does someone know how I can make an application grab the keyboard explicitely? I'm running ssh -X to my desktop, where I launch nxclient. For some reason, I can't do any keyboard input in all of nxclient. meaning the configuration and login dialog as well as the remote session. | 12:35 |
| sivang | I don't understand the problem with OVI store as well. | 12:35 |
| Duckboot | sivang: No python apps - Just as an example. | 12:36 |
| Shapeshifter | mouse presses however do work. | 12:36 |
| thp | sivang: they only accept companies as developers, no python apps, etc.. | 12:36 |
| MiXu-_ | Does Apple accept other than companies? | 12:36 |
| Duckboot | MiXu-_: Yes | 12:36 |
| Appiah | well yes | 12:37 |
| sivang | thp: I'm sure that if someone would have approached them to get to publish there, as a sole developer, he'd get it. They are quite kind and helpful. | 12:37 |
| alterego | Which is odd, with them wanting LGPL for PySide | 12:37 |
| sivang | I think PySide stuff would eventually get accepted into OVI, it is a matter of time as I see it. | 12:37 |
| sivang | do apple accept Python apps onto the stoe? | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | Python is not a supported runtime, so no Ovi for you. | 12:37 |
| alterego | I'm just wondering if it might have something to do with source availability. | 12:37 |
| thp | sivang: well we don't want to compare ovi store with apple's app store here ;) | 12:38 |
| sivang | is there an app store that accpets python apps? | 12:38 |
| sivang | this is important to the argument. | 12:38 |
| thp | they don't support writing python apps for their platform | 12:38 |
| sivang | thp: so it is a Coincidence that they fund PySide development? | 12:39 |
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| thp | sivang: well, i hope they support it in harmattan times. there was a thread about this on the pymaemo mailing list some days ago | 12:40 |
| sivang | thp: and have people on the Nokia payroll doing hardwork and sprinting to make it better and more Qt following? | 12:40 |
| sivang | thp: for example, in the latest release you can now use proper qt style slots and signals. | 12:40 |
| thp | thread starts here: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/pymaemo-developers/2010-June/001479.html and the reply from a nokia employee https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/pymaemo-developers/2010-June/001482.html | 12:40 |
| sivang | thp: something that was done (together with bug squashing spree) in the last sprint or so. | 12:41 |
| * sivang looks | 12:41 | |
| sivang | thp: right, so Matti just said this is the case for Maemo, doesn't mean that it will stay that way. | 12:41 |
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| sivang | thp: the forum are VERY responsive to us as a community (talking from my personal contribution experience) | 12:42 |
| sivang | thp: expect good things :) | 12:42 |
| sivang | thp: for Maemo, use extras | 12:42 |
| sivang | I guess | 12:42 |
| thp | i do. just saying ovi store *right now* doesn't accept python apps ;) | 12:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, oh, an "enabled" button | 12:43 |
| mece | X-Fade, do the package maintainer request go through you? | 12:43 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: :P | 12:43 |
| X-Fade | mece: Yes, if there is not a maintainer for the package already. | 12:43 |
| alterego | Something wrong with my button?! | 12:43 |
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| sivang | thp: btw, if you demonstrate substantial contribution, you can get accepted to publish apps on OVI, given your app ideas are interesting and mix up with the OVI approach and scope. | 12:44 |
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| mece | X-Fade, well there is.It's for wesnoth-data, I was wondering if you could make it so right away since I'm already maintainer of wesnoth | 12:44 |
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| X-Fade | mece: refresh ;) | 12:44 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: there are other items in the change log :P | 12:44 |
| sivang | thp: not being a company, I wonder if that's the same for Apple. (Should be for their sake :-)) | 12:45 |
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| MohammadAG51 | alterego, well I'm currently installed a s***load of python dependencies | 12:45 |
| mece | X-Fade, cheers :) | 12:45 |
| thp | sivang: they (ovi) are in the process of changing it, i think. just not there yet. | 12:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | not sure what ecactly frals/noobmonk3y added in their new updates... | 12:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | 2 upgraded, 17 newly installed, 0 to remove and 13 not upgraded. | 12:46 |
| sivang | thp: yep, infrastructural things take time. | 12:46 |
| X-Fade | thp: But even then you need to adhere to the preferred api. Plain Qt or qtm, nothing more. | 12:46 |
| crashanddie | that made my day: http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1678268&cid=32492456 | 12:46 |
| achipa | too bad there isn't anything that does NOT fall under that category with Ovi :D | 12:46 |
| thp | X-Fade: that's why I love maemo.org extras so much :) apart from the very personal support I can get there ;) | 12:46 |
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| pupnik_ | new Knots2 multimedia streaming package in testing. try it and vote! | 12:47 |
| mece | crashanddie, I dun geddit. What does the first C&C refer to? | 12:47 |
| crashanddie | mece: read the summary | 12:48 |
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| MohammadAG51 | command and conquer? | 12:48 |
| achipa | X-Fade: you have to admit that leaving out PySide *is* a hefty 12 gauge shot in one's foot | 12:48 |
| MiXu-_ | extras is a nice idea, but there's so much stuff that if you have extras, extras-testing and extras-devel repos active it takes frigging ages to do anything in the app manager. | 12:48 |
| MiXu-_ | apt is pants if you ask me. | 12:48 |
| MohammadAG51 | rpm sucks | 12:48 |
| MiXu-_ | For a phone at least | 12:48 |
| * MohammadAG51 hides | 12:48 | |
| MiXu-_ | :) | 12:48 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Only supported runtime on all platforms is Qt ;) | 12:48 |
| MohammadAG51 | but seriously | 12:48 |
| MohammadAG51 | apt is much faster than rpm | 12:48 |
| MiXu-_ | I don't know rpm, so no idea how that would work. | 12:49 |
| achipa | MiXu-_: there are caching/front-end apps to solve that, but they didn't think we'll have this much packages :) | 12:49 |
| MiXu-_ | yeah, I suppose so | 12:49 |
| frals | MohammadAG51: ? | 12:49 |
| SpeedEvil | X-Fade: Is there any way to break out repos from stats? http://maemo.org/download-stats/index.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5&repo=extras - for an arbitrary example. That is not only - as the tag at the end might lead you to expect - extras. It includes testing, and devel. | 12:49 |
| MiXu-_ | achipa: But that's just dumb design if you ask me | 12:49 |
| mece | crashanddie, LOOOOL | 12:49 |
| X-Fade | SpeedEvil: Extras* :) | 12:49 |
| X-Fade | SpeedEvil: Everything extras.. | 12:50 |
| achipa | X-Fade: I mean, it kind of defeats the purpose to rewrite a bindings because of licensing, and then treat it equally as the other binding that had the 'problematic' license :) | 12:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, nope, still have to clear it myself (status) | 12:50 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Python is not, and never has been a supported runtime. | 12:50 |
| SpeedEvil | X-Fade: Indeed - it quite ignores the repo - 'repo=fish' ifives the same | 12:50 |
| achipa | X-Fade: then why bother with a LGPL python binding ? | 12:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | frals nvm, it was prolly noobmonk3y | 12:50 |
| achipa | (when you already have a GPL one) | 12:51 |
| frals | MohammadAG51: 1 new is prolly statusmenu-fmms unless you had it, rest is noobmonk3s fault im sure! | 12:51 |
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| MohammadAG51 | lol | 12:51 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Haven't seen anything in MeeGo about python runtime support. | 12:51 |
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| achipa | X-Fade: it's nowhere nearly certain yet, from what I gather | 12:51 |
| X-Fade | achipa: But I guess it is just a nice to have atm. | 12:51 |
| tekojo | achipa: did you read the whole licensing thing? | 12:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | frals, he switched to 4.7.3... | 12:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | just checked the control file | 12:52 |
| achipa | tekojo: for Ovi, for PySide or for PyQt ? | 12:52 |
| mece | 4.7.3 ftfw! | 12:52 |
| frals | yeah he didnt know which version was the proper one because ppl had problems with older so i told him to just take the newest :P | 12:52 |
| tekojo | pyside pyqt | 12:52 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: can you tell me exactly what you're doing? | 12:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, my life is non of your business | 12:53 |
| frals | also, bah at 20kg max weight when traveling | 12:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | in all seriousness | 12:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | i'm pausing the song :) | 12:53 |
| mece | LOL | 12:53 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG51: and you're waiting five seconds? :P | 12:53 |
| achipa | tekojo: errm... I wish to believe I have :) If you mean the LGPL vs commercial license thing | 12:53 |
| * mece looks on, as suddenly the #maemo discussions take a turn for the weird. | 12:53 | |
| X-Fade | frals: Just buy more weight then? | 12:54 |
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| X-Fade | frals: Usually cheaper when you do that in advance. | 12:54 |
| frals | X-Fade: yeah, but still, bah! | 12:54 |
| tekojo | pyqt is gpl + commercial, which is kind of a pain if you are a company | 12:54 |
| tekojo | ok if you are an individual | 12:54 |
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| sivang | right, but if you want to developer something propreitary | 12:54 |
| sivang | ... | 12:54 |
| mece | tekojo, so does a one man army count as a individual or company? | 12:54 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, yeah | 12:55 |
| * mece has trouble being serious, it appears. | 12:55 | |
| achipa | tekojo: not at all sure. My feedback tells the opposite. Most companies are far more fond of a cheap commercial license than LGPL | 12:55 |
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| tekojo | mece: depends whether it's a .com army | 12:55 |
| mece | lol | 12:55 |
| achipa | but then again I might have just talked to the wrong people :) | 12:55 |
| sivang | achipa: how come? | 12:55 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: One man can be a company. | 12:55 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: You just need to file the papers. | 12:55 |
| sivang | right | 12:55 |
| tekojo | achipa: well, it's about choices isn't it? | 12:55 |
| SpeedEvil | In some cases, you don't even need to file papers. | 12:55 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, I know I know. | 12:55 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: well, I don't know what you're doing, but it's working fine for me :P | 12:56 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, it was a failed attempt at humor. | 12:56 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: there are places like this :) | 12:56 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, another example of racism | 12:56 |
| alterego | Hahah | 12:56 |
| achipa | tekojo: sure. though both pyside and pyqt getting the cold shoulder for ovi certainly does not help overall choices | 12:56 |
| sivang | MohammadAG51: hehe | 12:56 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: I'm sorry, humor not found. | 12:57 |
| mece | alterego, yeah, stop being racist... wait what? | 12:57 |
| * SpeedEvil insmods coffee.ko | 12:57 | |
| sivang | EPARSE | 12:57 |
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| mece | ZOMBIES! RUN!! | 12:57 |
| * MohammadAG51 rmmods sugar.ko | 12:57 | |
| * mece goes to lunch. | 12:57 | |
| tekojo | achipa: Ovi will learn in time | 12:57 |
| mece | tataa | 12:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, i demand a refund | 12:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | your app is broken | 12:58 |
| MiXu-_ | Didn't they promise that there will be some new stuff in Ovi soon? | 12:58 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: when did you change your status? Was it during a song? | 12:58 |
| achipa | sivang: long story short, with commercial they feel safe, plus they can count on support. With LGPL there is a lot of FUD which makes them uneasy, regardless of the actual situation | 12:58 |
| alterego | I've just noticed a bug :P | 12:58 |
| Shapeshifter | man this behaviour of windows not getting focus unless explicity doing XSetInputFocus() is so god damn annyoing. I can't even get the window to get keyboard focus using wmctrl. | 12:59 |
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| MohammadAG51 | alterego, I just paused the song, and waited, and waited... and waited | 12:59 |
| achipa | tekojo: I really-really hope that will be the case (not just python, but in general approach) otherwise all is for naught :) | 12:59 |
| alterego | Should be instantaneous. | 12:59 |
| MiXu-_ | If you really want to put an app in ovi store starting a company isn't really a big deal | 12:59 |
| alterego | And like I said, works for me :P | 12:59 |
| alterego | Are you sure you're using 0.2 ? | 12:59 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, and like i said, you're racist | 13:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | :) | 13:00 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: oh, wait, did you do an upgrade? | 13:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | no, i'm using PR1.2 | 13:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | XP | 13:00 |
| Appiah | playing the racecard all day | 13:00 |
| X-Fade | achipa: First priority is to make python a supported runtime then. | 13:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | yeah | 13:00 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: you might have to stop and start the daemon .. | 13:00 |
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| alterego | If you're using one of the older versions whilst we were messing with 0.1 .. | 13:00 |
| sivang | X-Fade: doesn't pr1.2 come with pyside runtime? | 13:00 |
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| MohammadAG51 | alterego, how user friendly... | 13:00 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: extras-devel :P | 13:00 |
| sivang | i.e. one of the upgrade features? | 13:01 |
| X-Fade | sivang: Maemo has never come with python. | 13:01 |
| * sivang might be confused. | 13:01 | |
| sivang | X-Fade: I see. | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG51 | ~flash alterego | 13:01 |
| achipa | X-Fade: that's what I mean by general approach - if we're all open source friendly, there has to be a clear way of introducing such libraries/runtimes into Ovi | 13:01 |
| * infobot starts a firmware update on alterego, then pulls the plug halfway through | 13:01 | |
| X-Fade | Other than some SDK dependencies which made it a bit unclear. | 13:01 |
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| alterego | :D | 13:01 |
| achipa | (again, not just python, that goes for anything lib* in Extras, too) | 13:01 |
| sivang | infobot: hehe | 13:01 |
| infobot | hmm... hehe is eheh | 13:01 |
| X-Fade | achipa: Set your goals small. | 13:01 |
| sivang | achipa: go ahead and suggest it | 13:01 |
| X-Fade | achipa: python first, if you get that in then continue. | 13:02 |
| achipa | sivang: I have no Ovi contacts. All Nokians generally agree but Ovi seems like a high tower in the distance, nobody goes there | 13:02 |
| sivang | achipa: but I do think that things like that should remain to the scrunity of the store provider, as is probably for any other big vendor. | 13:02 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, using ovi or some other crap? | 13:03 |
| achipa | X-Fade: sure, but the only real solution is for this not to happen on a 'fiat lux' base. But I agree, baby steps and all | 13:03 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG51: ? | 13:03 |
| MohammadAG51 | i wouldn't doubt that it's telepathy's UI that's stuck | 13:03 |
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| X-Fade | achipa: First get it in the official sdk, which for MeeGo is still a bit of an unknown. | 13:04 |
| Shapeshifter | Has anyone ever tried a different WM on the n900? | 13:05 |
| Shapeshifter | like say, a tiler? | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Tiler would be for most apps - poor | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Having said that - I really want the ability for hildon-desktop to 'swallow' apps | 13:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | swallow? | 13:06 |
| MohammadAG51 | i want non full windows | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | So that if I have an app that would work well at widget size - I can create a widget with that app window. | 13:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | The app starts. The window manager sets the size to (say) 200*200 and puts it on the desktop. | 13:07 |
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| alterego | Well, I'm going to have a shower. | 13:07 |
| SpeedEvil | This happens at wm startup | 13:07 |
| MohammadAG51 | jrHD | 13:08 |
| achipa | X-Fade: matti says he's championing in getting it in for harmattan, I ensured him of our full community/council/commercial support :) | 13:08 |
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| sivang | SpeedEvil: so you can see progress at the same time without needing to switch between apps? | 13:08 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: no. | 13:09 |
| X-Fade | achipa: I'm all for it, most of Extras* apps are python based it seems. | 13:09 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: I mean yes | 13:09 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: basically - if you want a 10*10 char xterm on the desktop, it can just be there. | 13:09 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: like on a desktop | 13:09 |
| sivang | right | 13:09 |
| achipa | X-Fade: it makes perfect sense as it has the lowest entry barrier | 13:09 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: It won't perhaps accept keyboard input. | 13:09 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: focus needs to be determined like in a regular deskotp | 13:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Low entry barriers can be bad. | 13:10 |
| sivang | I reckon | 13:10 |
| * SpeedEvil was never very good at limbo. | 13:10 | |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: That depends. | 13:10 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: If you just say that this sort of widget can only take taps/clicks for example. | 13:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Does any widget ever get keyboard focus? | 13:11 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: right so you can full screen it when you see something new arrived | 13:11 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: good question, I guess it gets it with the rest of the widgets of the main program window | 13:11 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: I've never seen a widget that takes keyboard input. | 13:11 |
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| sivang | SpeedEvil: you mean mobile widgets? | 13:12 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: I mean the n900 widgets | 13:12 |
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| pupnik | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/knots2/0.3.2-1?net_nemein_favourites_execute=fav&net_nemein_favourites_execute_for=2b75cbf86f4011dfb543ebc9809c2b712b71&net_nemein_favourites_url=/json/fav/org_maemo_packages_package_instance/2b75cbf86f4011dfb543ebc9809c2b712b71/ knots2 in testing again | 13:14 |
| pupnik | urgh | 13:15 |
| X-Fade | pupnik: Evil paste ;) | 13:15 |
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| X-Fade | Letting people directly vote up is not really nice. | 13:16 |
| pupnik | oh hehe it is | 13:16 |
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| pupnik | don't click that | 13:17 |
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| wazd | any londoners in here? :) | 13:25 |
| wazd | sorry for spam :) | 13:25 |
| Scelt_ | http://steamunpowered.eu/valve-to-release-duke-nukem-forever/ | 13:28 |
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| sivang | pupnik: I was not logged at least :) | 13:28 |
| sivang | pupnik: but I clicked | 13:28 |
| * SpeedEvil is about 500 miles from being a londoner. | 13:29 | |
| Duckboot | Hmmm - The ball is rolling? http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55531 | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | the main problem is who hosts the incoming money. ie, trust. | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | and that gets difficult over time | 13:30 |
| Duckboot | Stskeeps: Get a agreement with paypal? | 13:30 |
| Duckboot | s/a/an | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | except paypal is notoriously known for fucking you over :) | 13:31 |
| Stskeeps | one credit card dispute and your store could be stalled | 13:31 |
| pupnik | sivang: knots2 deserves promotion imo. check it out sometime | 13:31 |
| Duckboot | Stskeeps: Well - there must be othere similar services. | 13:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | never had problems with paypal | 13:33 |
| Stskeeps | and imagine the uproar if transfers from that guy handling the money gets delayed.. | 13:33 |
| Duckboot | Stskeeps: I know, I know. | 13:33 |
| SpeedEvil | I saw something on planet. | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | not saying it is a bad idea. | 13:34 |
| SpeedEvil | A couple of weeks ago. | 13:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Is tehre an archive of links? | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | i kinda hope someone (personally) would be doing a similar concept, it's just hard to do in practice | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | and then there's the whole liability issue.. | 13:34 |
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| Duckboot | Stskeeps: Mmmm - That's why there must be something like a council running things. | 13:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | It was the '10 million apps' post - anyone have a link? | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | also, can you trust the stuff people to upload things they actually have copyright for? | 13:35 |
| sivang | pupnik: media streaming server on the N900? | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | and who pays the bills if the site gets sued? :P | 13:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | 1M downloads I believe. | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Stskeeps: Clearly, put it on freenet. | 13:36 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: Wonder what's that obsession people have with London :) | 13:36 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: surely a nice place, well, very nice | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | SpeedEvil: if someone is a money handling point, they're a target.. | 13:36 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: oh okay, I love london | 13:36 |
| sivang | :) | 13:36 |
| Duckboot | Stskeeps: There, there - You must take your happy pills - No, seriously - I know there is several issues which have to be ironed out before even thinking about launching something like it, but it's doable I think. | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | Duckboot: nah, just giving friendly advise, as i had this conversation already with someone :) | 13:37 |
| pigeon | cool, mobilehotspot works on the n900, though i'm a bit puzzled that i need to manually set ip for the other device, is it supposed to be like that? | 13:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Argh - this is annoying. | 13:37 |
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| Trewas | what's the problem with ovi store? they have been very slow starting but at least they are now selling stuff | 13:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | http://blog.gsmarena.com/apple-shares-down-after-the-iphone-4-announcement/ lol | 13:39 |
| Duckboot | Stskeeps: The company which I work work makes Varnish. And we've split out a part of the company, making a separate company which is living of revenue from software with a BSD-license - I have been in the business for a while, and have some ppl around me, whom I can seek for advice. | 13:40 |
| Stskeeps | Duckboot: fair enough | 13:40 |
| Duckboot | Trewas: Only companies as allowed into their store | 13:40 |
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| achipa | MohammadAG51: that's normal... it was the same with the ipad, speculation always drives upwards | 13:40 |
| DaveR53 | Hi all | 13:41 |
| Shapeshifter | How can I make an app grab the keyboard? | 13:41 |
| MohammadAG51 | achipa, shares went down | 13:41 |
| Shapeshifter | using wmctrl -a didn't work, the "trick" with the powerbutton that works with easy debian didn't work. | 13:42 |
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| achipa | MohammadAG51: that's what I'm saying, in case od apple products, speculation drives share price up, and then they fall back on the announcement | 13:42 |
| achipa | it's a pattern, really | 13:42 |
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| Shapeshifter | >:( | 13:52 |
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| Chrome__ | can n900 send files via IR? | 13:57 |
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| * mece has a full tommy, the food was yummy. Now back to acting like a dummy. *afternoonpoetry* | 13:59 | |
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| Duckboot | Damnit - I cannot seem to get any work done today - My head is spinning around with ideas on the store thingy for Maemo/Meego. | 14:03 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | eat some food | 14:04 |
| mece | for those not really selling apps, I would love to see http://flattr.com or something similar used on maemo.org | 14:04 |
| Duckboot | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Just ate lunch, so that's not a problem. | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Chrome__: No | 14:04 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | does the same n900 work in all countries? | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: no | 14:04 |
| mece | Duckboot, cuppajoe! | 14:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: There is different firmware - for example - in india - the FM transmitter is disabled. | 14:04 |
| mece | lsjwhatever, yes. | 14:05 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | oh, what should I look out for if I'm buying one in the US and then traveling? | 14:05 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: I'm unsure if it differs in hardware - probbaly not. As I understand it, the hardware is the same globally | 14:05 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | I'll mostly be in europe | 14:05 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | So I'll be able to us 3g everywhere that has it? | 14:05 |
| Duckboot | mece: Hehe - Got a Espresso Machine 5m from my desk. | 14:05 |
| mece | Duckboot, make me some!½ | 14:05 |
| Duckboot | mece: Ristretto, Lungo.... What is your choice? | 14:06 |
| mece | Duckboot, Lungo. Damn. Now I'm jealous. | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: no | 14:06 |
| mece | Or, hey I think we have one here too.. | 14:06 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | oh, why not? | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: It does not support some 3G networks due to their frequency | 14:06 |
| Venemo | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: just the european 3G standard | 14:06 |
| Duckboot | mece: You see - seek it out. | 14:06 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | so there is the US3g, euro3g, and what else? | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: For example, much of US and canada cannot do 3G with the n900 - or cannoy do it with some carriers. | 14:07 |
| Venemo | in the US, there are several other "standards" that are not compatible with anything else in the world | 14:07 |
| mece | ljs... , T-Mobile US works. | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Japan too. It won't work in japan | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | (AIUI) | 14:07 |
| mece | 2g will work anywhere though. | 14:07 |
| Venemo | yeah, Japan has its own standards, too | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: Not in japan | 14:07 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, damn. | 14:07 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | is tmo the best provider for the n900 in the US? | 14:07 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, so this phone will never work anywhere in Japan? | 14:08 |
| Venemo | well, it *may* work in Japan if you find a carrier that uses SIM cards | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: I believe that to be so. | 14:08 |
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| mece | ljs..., the only one that supports 3g on N900. | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: I haven't really investigated very hard, as I do not imagine going to japan any time soon. | 14:08 |
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| mece | SpeedEvil, I remember hearing that there is one carrier that supports... might be bs though. | 14:09 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | hmmmmmm | 14:09 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | so how much should I be paying for a n900? | 14:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Though I am quite willing to test it for you mece if you paypal me the cash for a round-trip. | 14:09 |
| Venemo | spend only as much as you don't regret | 14:09 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, well, let me think about it. | 14:09 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, no. | 14:09 |
| Venemo | if you don't mind used stuff, the best choice would be that | 14:10 |
| Venemo | there are several WTS threads in TMO | 14:10 |
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| vldcnst | speaking of US and 3G, what kind of dl/ul speeds do they have there? | 14:10 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | yeah, is the 3g on n900 much slower than the rest? | 14:11 |
| mece | Hey I read that an iPhone is "$199" or something in the usa. But if I understand correctly, that is not the actual price. Which means that the N900 is "0€" here in finland. Pretty cool huh? | 14:11 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: It's OK - any other moeny transfer service would work too, if you have a problem with paypal :) | 14:11 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | or the same as the rest of Tmo - which is about the same | 14:11 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | ......as the rest | 14:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | As a useless datapoint, I get 150kbytes/s from the sofa in the UK on t-mobile. | 14:11 |
| mece | ljs..., umm? N900 on T-mobile is as fast as other phones on T-Mobile. | 14:11 |
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| Venemo | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: it supports the best current HSPA standard | 14:12 |
| Venemo | so it mostly depends on the network you choose | 14:12 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | hmm, mece, how is it free? | 14:12 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | I'm going to be around finland soon, might actually stop by there | 14:12 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | I live in Chicago though | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | err - I think mece is confused. | 14:13 |
| mece | ljs, because iPhone fee is a subsidized price. AKA you pay that, and then something per month for x amounts of months. Apparently everyone forget to mention this. | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | I believe he's referring to the fact that iphone has a subsidised cost. | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Iphone is _not_ free in finland. | 14:13 |
| alterego | I didn't think the iPhone wasa free anywhere :P | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | The contract may not subsidise the cost of the phone, but the phone hardware is therefore much more expensive as an up-front cost. | 14:14 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | is the n900 cheaper in europe? | 14:14 |
| alterego | Much cheaper in the US | 14:14 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, if you calim tha tthe iphone cost $199 in the USA, then by the same logic the N900 cost 0€ in Finland. | 14:14 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | ah | 14:14 |
| mece | wow | 14:14 |
| mece | good typing there. | 14:14 |
| alterego | :) | 14:14 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, where's my bugfix you racist $SWEARWORD | 14:15 |
| ShadowJK | total cost for iphone in .fi is about 550€, if you buy the subsidized iphone from the operator on cheapest contract, then after 6 months switch to a cheap phone and chep contract and pay the remaining monthly fees for iphone (18 * something). 6 months and 550€ for unlocked iphone | 14:15 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: just uninstall it, make sure it's not still running | 14:15 |
| alterego | Then reinstall it :P | 14:15 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, | 14:16 |
| MohammadAG51 | shove a stop in prerm | 14:16 |
| Venemo | can someone recommend me a decent IRC client for Windows? | 14:16 |
| alterego | MohammadAG51: I have now :P | 14:16 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | okay, well the n900 is going to be about $400 unless you think there is a better place to get it | 14:16 |
| alterego | It's in 0.2, it just wasn't in 0.1 | 14:16 |
| Appiah | Venemo: no , use a shell | 14:16 |
| alterego | Which is why it's not working for you :P | 14:16 |
| mece | ShadowJK, yes exactly, but the iphone is claimed to cost $199, which is what you have to pay for it to get it in the first place apparently. And 0€ is what you have to pay to get an N900 in Finland. :) | 14:16 |
| Appiah | Venemo: or mIRC | 14:16 |
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| mece | ljs..., $400 is a great price! | 14:17 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | tmo users, what plan do you recommend for the n900? | 14:17 |
| alterego | Of course, you could just stop and start the service .. | 14:17 |
| ShadowJK | one with unlimited data | 14:17 |
| mece | ljs, unlimited data. All else is redundant imo. | 14:17 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | mece, it just seems like such a device shouldn't be more than a good netbook (my top model eee pc was only $350) | 14:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm using 1G/mo data with t-mobile UK | 14:17 |
| Venemo | I'm currently using mIRC, but it seems that it is properitary crap | 14:17 |
| Appiah | There is BitchX for windows I belive | 14:18 |
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| mece | Venemo, I use pidgin. Works fine. | 14:18 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | so Tmo will cover all 3g in europe that the n900 can pickup anyway? | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: the hardware is somewhat more costly to make. The assembly is quite expensive at these scales. | 14:18 |
| Appiah | there is also irssi for windows.. | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | 1G/mo data with t-mobile.co.uk for 20 quid for 6 months. | 14:18 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 14:18 |
| ShadowJK | ljsdofuynsdfufuh, coverage-wise N900 supports every operator in europe, 3g and 2g. | 14:18 |
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| ShadowJK | But tmobile usa is probably going to make you a very poor man if you use tmobile germany or tmobile uk. | 14:19 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | ah, so what does that mean I should purchase in terms of tmo plans, | 14:19 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, a few years back a phone company called me and asked if I was interested in a data plan. I told them I had unlimited. They said, well it might be cheaper to have a limited if you don't use that much. I asked how do I know how much I use? | 14:19 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | well speedevil just said tmo uk is cheap as hell | 14:19 |
| * Duckboot got a Unlimited dataplan atm - If I pass 3Gb, I get restrained to 128kbits | 14:19 | |
| mece | SpeedEvil, they told me to do this and that (Nokia N95) and I checked. | 14:20 |
| Appiah | wow... unlimited | 14:20 |
| Appiah | and then restrained | 14:20 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, then I asked, so what do you have that's cheaper than unlimited that covers 9Gb /month? | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: :) | 14:20 |
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| mece | SpeedEvil, turns out it was cheaper with the unlimited. who knew? | 14:20 |
| Venemo | okay, thx everyone about the recommendations | 14:20 |
| ShadowJK | ljsdofuynsdfufuh, yeah sure, I'm just warning you not to expect that Tmobile USA will be as cheap to use in the UK as Tmobile UK is to use in UK... | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: I completely agree. If you are out and about all the time with the phone, then 1G/mo would be hard. But for me - for most of the time I'm in wifi range. | 14:21 |
| ShadowJK | If you get a tmobile UK plan im the UK, sure.. | 14:21 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | shadowJK, why would tmo UK charge so much when speedevil says his bill is only 20/6mo for 1g/mo in the UK? | 14:21 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | oh | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: To be dair - that plan is very well hidden on the website. | 14:21 |
| Venemo | another question: | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: It's only also available on pay-as-you-go | 14:22 |
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| mece | Venemo, shoot | 14:22 |
| * SpeedEvil shoots mece. | 14:22 | |
| mece | SpeedEvil, wait, not you! | 14:22 |
| Venemo | I followed the steps at http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Disabling_Auto_Updates_Check and still, my N900 disregards the value I set | 14:22 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | so, maybe it would be cheaper to use Sims from euro providers when visiting? | 14:22 |
| ShadowJK | Yes | 14:22 |
| Duckboot | "I shot the Sheriff......" | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Certainly. | 14:22 |
| Venemo | it still updates itself on every connection | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: However - rates within the EU may be bad. | 14:22 |
| ShadowJK | Using foreign SIMs is financial suicide | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: You likelly need to use each countries SIM | 14:23 |
| mece | Venemo, did you reboot? | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | If you plan on using lots of data | 14:23 |
| Venemo | yes, several times since then | 14:23 |
| mece | Venemo, interesting. I haven't really tested that though. | 14:23 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Are you visiting one or two countries, or are you doing a grand tour or something? | 14:24 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | hmm, it seems like kind of a hastle to find a new sim everytime I'm in a new country | 14:24 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | I'll mostly be in sweden, but I'll probably be in about 5 other countries | 14:24 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | too | 14:24 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | at least* | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: There is generally very little roaming. | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Some providers provide a 'generous' roaming data plan for extra. But it tends to be around 50 meg a month. | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Anything over that may be in the region of 5 euros a meg | 14:25 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | meaning... you need a different sim for every euro country? | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 14:25 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | interesting | 14:26 |
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| ShadowJK | every country, period | 14:26 |
| ShadowJK | whether it's in europe or not makes little difference | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Pretty much. | 14:26 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | hmmm, so I should get a pay as you go tmo plan in the US, then when going to each euro country get the cheapest sim-based provider therein | 14:26 |
| Venemo | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: seems to be a good idea to me | 14:26 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | (so I'm not paying for US tmo while Im gone for 2months) | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | In at least the vast majority of countries - using mobile data on a foreign SIM is for the rich only. | 14:27 |
| ShadowJK | whenever your phone is roaming, the operators switch to the "bleed 'em dry and then some"-pricelist | 14:27 |
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| Venemo | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: you'll have to buy an unlocked N900 for that, though | 14:27 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | thought they were all unlocked | 14:27 |
| satmd | mhm | 14:27 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | at least in the US | 14:27 |
| Venemo | I dunno | 14:27 |
| Venemo | just pointing it out | 14:27 |
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| satmd | the one sold in austria, too | 14:28 |
| FIQ | Errors were encountered while processing: | 14:28 |
| FIQ | /var/cache/apt/archives/libxss1_1%3a1.1.3-1maemo1_armel.deb | 14:28 |
| Venemo | I've never been to the US, so I can't really tell | 14:28 |
| FIQ | E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) | 14:28 |
| satmd | the n900 *has* a unlock function | 14:28 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | venemo, so you're saying which part of that requires unlocked? | 14:28 |
| FIQ | That doesn't really make sense for me | 14:28 |
| satmd | hidden in the settings panel's dropdown menu | 14:28 |
| mece | FIQ, close ham..? | 14:28 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | having multiple sims? | 14:28 |
| Venemo | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: I mean that it should not be locked to a single carrier | 14:28 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | oh yeah | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: For example - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/going-abroad/using-the-internet-abroad/ | 14:28 |
| mece | Venemo, ljsdofuynsdfufuh, N900 is always unlocked. | 14:28 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | aren't you lucky... never been to the US, lol | 14:28 |
| Venemo | mece - okay, thx | 14:29 |
| Venemo | ljsdofuynsdfufuh - why am I lucky for that? :P | 14:29 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | partial joke | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | $10/MB for outside of the EU rates. | 14:29 |
| satmd | any recommendation for a map application that can import .kml (or .netxml/.gpsxml?) | 14:30 |
| Venemo | hm | 14:30 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | outside EU? meaning everywhere inside of europe has sensible rates? | 14:30 |
| Venemo | and what is the best IRC client for the N900? | 14:30 |
| mece | Venemo, xchat | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Well - If you consider $2/MB sensible. | 14:30 |
| Venemo | is "IRC protocol plugin for Conversations and Contacts" good? | 14:30 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | ouch, so I'll have to figure out when i get there which provider in each country i should use | 14:31 |
| satmd | Venemo: the messages of nickserv/global & co can be annoying after a while | 14:31 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Pretty much. If you're staying with friends, you may be able to get 'free' SIMs sent to them for you to pickup. | 14:31 |
| satmd | that's why I don't use the contacts plugin | 14:31 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | that's interesting | 14:32 |
| achipa | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: or simply ask them to buy you the cheapest prepaids, as they probably know best which provider has the best/cheapest coverage in that area | 14:33 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/free-pay-as-you-go-sim-cards/ + http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/payg/boosters/ boosters - internet boosters - and then you can have a gig a month for the rate I mentioned above | 14:34 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | great, thanks | 14:34 |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | only if im in the UK, though, right | 14:34 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 14:34 |
| Venemo | satmd - still, is it buggy or bad? I think I would prefer conversations integration to a separate app | 14:35 |
| satmd | no, it's fine | 14:35 |
| satmd | there's just no way to filter messages | 14:35 |
| Venemo | why would I want to filter them? | 14:36 |
| Venemo | sorry, I'm new to IRC :) | 14:36 |
| satmd | well, e.g. global will message you each time you connecz | 14:36 |
| satmd | -z+t | 14:36 |
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| Venemo | satmd - thx for the info | 14:37 |
| satmd | so will also maybe antispam systems and nickserv | 14:38 |
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| Venemo | hey | 14:44 |
| achipa | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: but if you have the option, ALWAYS buy local SIMs, combine maybe with SkypeIn & redirects and you are in cheap-call nirvana. | 14:44 |
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| Venemo | is it possible to create my own image with Flasher? | 14:45 |
| alterego | How stable is host mode now? And how user "friendly"? | 14:45 |
| Venemo | so that I can create an image, go crazy with stuff from devel, and then reflash with my own image? | 14:45 |
| Appiah | not user friendly at all | 14:45 |
| alterego | Heh :) | 14:45 |
| achipa | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: but there are also special travel SIMs that are universal, for example I got http://www.airbalticcard.com/ for free. Rids me of roaming for incoming calls on airports at least :) | 14:46 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | thanks achipa | 14:46 |
| Venemo | alterego: it isn't. it is coming very quickly, though | 14:46 |
| Appiah | (you still need a custom kernel) right? | 14:46 |
| Venemo | right | 14:46 |
| alterego | Venemo: is there a summary of steps involved now? | 14:46 |
| * mfayzull brays, for a change | 14:46 | |
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| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | I'll check it out - you'd think the n900 would have dual sim | 14:46 |
| Appiah | everything is documented on talk.maemo.org... | 14:46 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | I've even seen quad sim, which looks pretty 'l33t' | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Dual SIM is rare on 3G phones | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Simply as the radios are expensive | 14:47 |
| Appiah | can you even use the sims at the same time on dual sim? | 14:47 |
| Appiah | dont you have to reboot? | 14:47 |
| Venemo | alterego: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31921&page=106 | 14:47 |
| mece | achipa, awesome work with 4.7.3. Very happy that it's in extras now :) | 14:47 |
| achipa | mece: thx, glad to hear :) | 14:48 |
| achipa | we should have QtMobility soon, too, and then we can really party :) | 14:48 |
| mece | achipa, are you waiting for upstream? | 14:49 |
| achipa | mece: yep | 14:49 |
| mece | achipa, got an eta? | 14:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | does anyone here use ovi store? | 14:52 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, I've downloaded a few apps. What's up? | 14:52 |
| Appiah | I dont want to register on nokia for some reason | 14:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | bug 10600 | 14:52 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10600 Link from Ovi Store only works the second time | 14:52 |
| RST38h | Conservations have warned that the World Cup could finish off a rare South African vulture because locals believe smoking the beasts' brains will help them win big in footie-related bets | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | Appiah: i haven't and refuse | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless_mbp: I entered my username and put in a bogus email and phone, not realising it would require it. | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: heh | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: and now I can't delete the account. | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | so now the account is reserved? | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | cool | 14:53 |
| mece | timeless_mbp, never tried that. | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | mece: could you? | 14:53 |
| achipa | mece: not really... but I have seen 'first signs' in the VCS so it's not years off certainly | 14:53 |
| Appiah | SpeedEvil: haha | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | his steps suck | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | there should be about 20 steps | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | including specifying an actual application | 14:54 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: yes. I have considered being annoying, and using the provisions of the data protections act to get them to correct my data. | 14:54 |
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| RST38h | Anyone here using OpenGLES??? | 14:57 |
| Appiah | RST38h: for what | 14:58 |
| jacekowski | everybody | 14:58 |
| jacekowski | i've been playing a lot of OpenGLES games | 14:58 |
| jacekowski | does it count? | 14:58 |
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| alterego | RST38h: I tried, and failed :P | 14:58 |
| alterego | I think I might have another go sohortly though, as I'm pretty f*cking bored ^.^ | 14:59 |
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| sx0n | jacekowski, sure :) | 14:59 |
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| alterego | On a side note, are there any problems with me using Nokia maps maps? :) | 14:59 |
| mece | alterego, problems how? | 15:00 |
| alterego | Legally | 15:00 |
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| Duckboot | timeless_mbp: The thingy with "you must link twice to make a download from a link in the OVI store" - I can confirm it - I tried it, and I had to use the link twice - Last with WeatherBug. | 15:00 |
| alterego | If I want to write an application that uses Nokias maps .. | 15:00 |
| alterego | Or am I best using openstreet or something. | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: It will - likely - be impossible. | 15:00 |
| timeless_mbp | Duckboot: so... | 15:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | alterego: Map licensing is _horribly_ frought. | 15:00 |
| timeless_mbp | i've used an internal nokia service which uses an sms for delivery | 15:00 |
| timeless_mbp | and it worked fine | 15:00 |
| Venemo | noone answered, so I'll ask again: | 15:00 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: OSM is some orders of magnitude easier. | 15:00 |
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| RST38h | Appiah: For graphics | 15:00 |
| timeless_mbp | is the link to a .install file or a web page? | 15:01 |
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| Appiah | RST38h: developing apps or what? | 15:01 |
| Venemo | is it possible to create a custom Flasher image from the current state of my N900? | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy see also | 15:01 |
| Duckboot | timeless_mbp: web page (URL) | 15:01 |
| RST38h | Appiah: Developing apps | 15:01 |
| RST38h | ok | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo: In principle, yes. In practice, I don't think anyones done that. | 15:01 |
| Venemo | and how to do it? | 15:01 |
| Venemo | it would be a very easy way to make backups | 15:01 |
| timeless_mbp | Duckboot: if someone sends you a normal url via sms and you click on it, does that work? | 15:02 |
| Appiah | I'd like that too Venemo | 15:02 |
| Duckboot | timeless_mbp: First time it opens the front page - Second time it goes to the actual download page. | 15:02 |
| timeless_mbp | " http://google.us " | 15:02 |
| Duckboot | timeless_mbp: Yes | 15:02 |
| timeless_mbp | Duckboot: so this is a problem with Ovi, not the browser | 15:02 |
| timeless_mbp | you guys all suck | 15:02 |
| Duckboot | timeless_mbp: Mmm - Atleast I think so, yes. | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo: Figure out how to extract the ubifs root filesystem - and archive it on your computer. Then work out how to put that together with FIASCO into a flashable image. | 15:02 |
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| Duckboot | timeless_mbp: ?? | 15:02 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | google voice and google maps work on maemo? | 15:02 |
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| Stskeeps | Venemo: i usually rsync -aHx / to a sd card with ext3 | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | Duckboot: if clicking the link in the sms opens a page | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | and remake from there | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | then you have to say that | 15:03 |
| mece | voice work, and maps in browser work. | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | and you have to say what page it opens | 15:03 |
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| timeless_mbp | you can't just say "nothing works unless i click it twice": | 15:03 |
| Duckboot | timeless_mbp: I did right now? | 15:03 |
| Duckboot | 14:02 < Duckboot> timeless_mbp: First time it opens the front page - Second time it goes to the actual download page. | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | Duckboot: timeless_mbp: The thingy with "you must link twice to make a download from a link in the OVI store" - I can confirm it - I tried it, and I had to use the link twice - Last with WeatherBug. | 15:03 |
| mece | it's annoying how QUADS don't exist in gles. | 15:03 |
| timeless_mbp | your initial comment to me was as unhelpful as the bug reporter's | 15:03 |
| mece | speaking of gles | 15:04 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: this is interesting. Still, is there any easy solution for Windows? | 15:04 |
| timeless_mbp | note that i am quite thankful that you eventually clarified | 15:04 |
| timeless_mbp | but i'm still annoyed | 15:04 |
| timeless_mbp | can you please try reproducing and actually record the location you're sent to the first time you click the link? | 15:04 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: Doesn't Flasher have the option to do this? | 15:04 |
| alterego | mece: quads are just two triangles :P | 15:05 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: no | 15:05 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: :( | 15:05 |
| Duckboot | Sec - gonna try to download an app by sending a SMS with the link (from OVI-store) | 15:05 |
| mece | alterego, I know, but they are used. Alot. | 15:05 |
| Venemo | Stskeeps: so, no trivial solution? | 15:05 |
| Stskeeps | Venemo: no trivial solution | 15:05 |
| alterego | mece: I actually think triangles are more efficient anyway? | 15:05 |
| mece | ljsdofuynsdfufuh, "mece: voice work, and maps in browser work." was meant for you. | 15:05 |
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| Venemo | Stskeeps: thx for the info | 15:06 |
| mece | alterego, yes, but that doesn't help if it's someone else who's made the thing. | 15:06 |
| timeless_mbp | Duckboot: thank you very much | 15:06 |
| mece | alterego, besides, quads are convenient if you want just that. much less work than making 2 triangles. | 15:06 |
| alterego | I dunno, use a triangle strip :P | 15:07 |
| alterego | That'd make quads easy, almost the same as actually making quads. | 15:07 |
| mece | alterego, for efficient, well made gl stuff, gles is nice and should work pretty straignt up, since they have that much in common, but for quick fixes it's annoying. | 15:07 |
| alterego | Yeah | 15:08 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | yeah, thanks mece, i caught it | 15:08 |
| crashanddie | I'm sorry if I'm going to be a troll | 15:08 |
| crashanddie | but damn, the iPhone 4 looks sexy. | 15:08 |
| Venemo | crashanddie: no, it looks disgusting | 15:08 |
| mece | alterego, I'm very inexperienced in gl programming. My brother is playing with making old school space shooters with gl, and I try to port them to n900, and fail. | 15:08 |
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| mece | crashanddie, I know, I hate it too! | 15:09 |
| crashanddie | mece: I don't hate it :) | 15:09 |
| alterego | mece: hah, tell him to use triangles! :P | 15:09 |
| Duckboot | timeless_mbp: Tried to send "Alarm Maemo" to myself - Got link http://store.ovi.mobi/content/36033 - Clicked on it in conversations - Ended up on http://store.ovi.mobi/home - switched back to conversation - click on the link again - Ended up in the correct location. | 15:09 |
| mece | crashanddie, I don't hate it, I hate it that the iphone is sexy. | 15:09 |
| mece | duckboot, timeless_mbp, sounds like a cookie monster. Sets cookie first time, reads cookie second time. they should have a redirect after setting cookie. | 15:10 |
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| mece | duckboot, timeless_mbp, I actually had that exact same problem with this project at work yesterday :D | 15:10 |
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| timeless_mbp | Duckboot: can you do me a favor and comment in bug 10600? | 15:11 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10600 Link from Ovi Store only works the second time | 15:11 |
| Duckboot | timeless_mbp: Consider it done | 15:11 |
| mece | alterego, ye.. will do. | 15:11 |
| timeless_mbp | :) | 15:11 |
| mece | alterego, but there's also the problem with... erm I forget what it's called. vertexf3d? | 15:11 |
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| alterego | mece: you mean floating point values? | 15:12 |
| mece | alterego, no the whole function is missing from gles- | 15:12 |
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| alterego | Oh, | 15:12 |
| * timeless_mbp wanders off | 15:13 | |
| massoud | hey there | 15:13 |
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| massoud | does anyone knows where to find this apps for n900 : http://videos.wittysparks.com/id/833911081 | 15:14 |
| mece | alterego, I forget what it's actually called though. | 15:14 |
| massoud | Sleepy Pattern w/ Timelapse features | 15:14 |
| massoud | or other timelapse application | 15:14 |
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| Wolfie | wtf... has app manager's search feature been pulled? | 15:16 |
| Treibholz | is there an alternative for Modest (except claws...)? | 15:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | no | 15:16 |
| Ikarus | Wolfie: no | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | start typing in the app-list | 15:16 |
| Ikarus | Wolfie: it's just, ackward now | 15:16 |
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| thp | Treibholz: mutt? | 15:17 |
| Treibholz | thp: mutt is not really better on smartphone than modest... | 15:18 |
| * Treibholz is dreaming of an "Xmutt" for years now... | 15:18 | |
| thp | mutt is perfect - you can control it fully with the keyboard, obviously | 15:19 |
| Wolfie | SpeedEvil, Ikarus: bah... there should be some kind of indication for that (like a textfield or something). Very unintuitive | 15:19 |
| crashanddie | massoud: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/sleeppy/ | 15:19 |
| Wolfie | but thanks for your corrections | 15:19 |
| thp | Treibholz: but if you want to go graphical, muttator might be for you. maybe not on the n900, though.. | 15:19 |
| Treibholz | thp: muttator doesn't work on TB3, just on it's betas... | 15:20 |
| Wolfie | ah, there is a textfield, once you start writing... it'd be great if it would start visible, and fade/scroll out | 15:20 |
| alterego | mece: http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/opengl-hellogl-es.html#using-opengl-es-rendering-commands | 15:20 |
| Wolfie | *musings of a starting UX guy* | 15:20 |
| alterego | mece: has some helpers on an issue which I think is similar to yours | 15:20 |
| Treibholz | thp: on the Workstation I use 3 Mailclients in parallel because they all suck! | 15:20 |
| timeless_mbp | aSIMULAtor: https://store.ovi.mobi/login — i just saw it and it reminded me of a conversation we had earlier | 15:21 |
| Treibholz | thp: mutt, thunderbird and Outlook via RDP (because of the calendar) | 15:21 |
| mece | interesting. | 15:23 |
| mece | oh well. got to head out. | 15:23 |
| mece | tataa. | 15:23 |
| Treibholz | I'm playing around with davmail, whoch gives me a CalDAV-Interface to Exchange, so I can see my calendar in lightning. | 15:23 |
| Shapeshifter | another bug I guess will never be fixed is bug 10608 | 15:23 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10608 WM doesn't give focus to some apps, hence they don't receive keyboard input | 15:23 |
| Shapeshifter | and it's so damn impairing. | 15:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | Duckboot: thanks. bug burried | 15:25 |
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| Venemo | well, this seems to be just another "WONTFIX for Maemo 5" bug | 15:26 |
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| Duckboot | timeless_mbp: No probs | 15:32 |
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| th3hate | Restoring factory settings deletes applications and converstaions? | 15:36 |
| jcrawford | morning all | 15:37 |
| crashanddie | moanin | 15:37 |
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| MohammadAG51 | frals, hildon uses gtk 2.x right? | 15:44 |
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| E0x | gtk 1.x is still in used ? | 15:48 |
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| Treibholz | E0x: not on Maemo | 15:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | E0x, well, it's on pygtk.org so I was just wondering | 15:51 |
| E0x | pygtk use 2.x | 15:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | also, I'd rather have a book than a pdf | 15:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | so i'm printing all 412 pages | 15:52 |
| MohammadAG51 | just need to be sure :) | 15:52 |
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| * Treibholz would love to have both. a PDF for every book! | 15:52 | |
| * b-man|laptop yawns | 15:52 | |
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| MohammadAG51 | infobot, attack b-man|laptop | 15:52 |
| * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing b-man|laptop | 15:52 | |
| * b-man|laptop runs like crazy | 15:52 | |
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| ghostcube | any date for the rollercoaster game? | 15:54 |
| b-man|laptop | ~shooot MohammadAG51 | 15:54 |
| b-man|laptop | err | 15:54 |
| b-man|laptop | ~shoot MohammadAG51 | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | haha | 15:55 |
| * infobot shoots MohammadAG51 in the foot with a quantum singularity weapon! | 15:55 | |
| lcuk | ghostcube, asap! | 15:55 |
| ghostcube | heh :) | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | C would've done the same | 15:55 |
| * lcuk wants to play also | 15:55 | |
| MohammadAG51 | same | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | hey, let's crack the ovi store | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | :P | 15:55 |
| ghostcube | C does always what everything else can and faster | 15:55 |
| ghostcube | yeah ... so where to start fuzzing o.o | 15:55 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, pygtk is quite reasonable, and yes gtk on our device is 2.14.x | 15:55 |
| ghostcube | hmmm android 2.2 anyone seen the new features | 15:56 |
| ghostcube | looks cool | 15:56 |
| frals | baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah | 15:57 |
| * frals goes back to reading mail | 15:57 | |
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| pupnik | can n900 run WebOS? | 15:57 |
| * b-man|laptop would consider plying with porting 2.2 to the N900, but the development tools necessary take too much disk space lol | 15:57 | |
| b-man|laptop | possibly | 15:57 |
| b-man|laptop | i've ran parts of in in a chroot | 15:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | most probably, if you add water | 15:58 |
| pupnik | b-man|laptop: ++ | 15:58 |
| pupnik | what is missing? | 15:58 |
| b-man|laptop | the Plm Pre's cpu is identical to the N900's | 15:58 |
| b-man|laptop | well | 15:58 |
| pupnik | execution environment? | 15:58 |
| b-man|laptop | i (think) it needs a 32bit framebuffer | 15:58 |
| b-man|laptop | but | 15:59 |
| b-man|laptop | i haven't tested the ui | 15:59 |
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| pupnik | can you pls take notes in a thread, blog or wiki? | 15:59 |
| b-man|laptop | sure lol | 16:00 |
| pupnik | if meego thinks it can compete for mindspace at this stage it needs to bring a compelling compatibility case | 16:00 |
| * b-man|laptop will take notes on the maemo wiki - tmo is too negative and violent atm lol | 16:01 | |
| pupnik | yes | 16:01 |
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| b-man|laptop | i'm 87% certain that with modifications, we can get it running ;) | 16:02 |
| b-man|laptop | Stskeeps made a brief attempt at running it on his N900 | 16:02 |
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| b-man|laptop | but was not very successful | 16:03 |
| * GAN900 wonders why Apple can manage not to drop their old customers like rocks yet Nokia can't pull it off. | 16:03 | |
| * b-man|laptop wonders the saame | 16:03 | |
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| b-man|laptop | *same | 16:03 |
| pupnik | what maemo-derived thing was announced to compete with webOS? | 16:04 |
| pupnik | forgot the name | 16:04 |
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| GAN900 | MeeGo? | 16:06 |
| flux | great, my pr 1.1 phone won't boot because something in the phone app corrupted | 16:06 |
| flux | any suggestions? | 16:06 |
| pupnik | i think limited resources may be best spend doing the low-level work needed to run existing app catalogues, whatever reverse engineering that involves is a solid investment | 16:06 |
| flux | it keeps rebooting itself | 16:07 |
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| asj_ | flux: why not just reflash it? | 16:07 |
| flux | asj_, and lose all the data? | 16:07 |
| lcuk | pupnik, the web runtime stuff? | 16:07 |
| asj_ | flux: don't flash the emmc | 16:07 |
| pupnik | yeah web runtime | 16:07 |
| flux | asj_, oh. well, gotta try that then. | 16:07 |
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| flux | asj_, it will get rid of all my /etc stuff though? | 16:08 |
| pupnik | so what if meego is a Borg OS. at this stage it has to be | 16:08 |
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| asj_ | flux: yes, everything but /home will be reset | 16:08 |
| flux | is there a way to make it boot so that it doesn't as easily autoreboot itself? | 16:08 |
| ghostcube | i would prefere someone port android 2.2 to the n900 | 16:08 |
| ghostcube | :D | 16:08 |
| flux | asj_, I actually think /home is the culprit | 16:08 |
| flux | asj_, so what would reflashing help? | 16:08 |
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| flux | damn stupid of me not to backup the data especially before rebooting it after it was acting weird :( | 16:09 |
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| pupnik | there is no good reason for android to require a custom kernel ghostcube ... but maybe future mobile cpus will support virtualization | 16:09 |
| ShadowJK | wow, my N900 feels so thin after I swapped in the original battery | 16:09 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 16:09 |
| asj_ | flux: you can flash the emmc first if you want...up to you..look at flashing online | 16:09 |
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| asj_ | ShadowJK: you have the 3000mah monster? | 16:10 |
| ghostcube | pupnik: hmmm but if meego isnt running so far maybe android can help us getting the device back to live :D | 16:10 |
| b-man|laptop | pupnik: it's kinda sad that HP is going to dump WebOS phones and start producing "WebOS fax/printers/scanners" instead :P | 16:10 |
| ShadowJK | asj, 2400mAh, I don't know of any 3000mAh | 16:10 |
| asj_ | ShadowJK: ah, close enogh ;) | 16:10 |
| asj_ | damn I should go to bed, too wired on ice cream and M&Ms | 16:10 |
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| b-man|laptop | it's moaning here | 16:11 |
| jacekowski | ghostcube: well, i've spent some time porting dalvik to glibc | 16:11 |
| MohammadAG51 | moaning? | 16:11 |
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| b-man|laptop | gah | 16:12 |
| jacekowski | ghostcube: so at some point n900 might run android apps | 16:12 |
| ghostcube | oh cool | 16:12 |
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| b-man|laptop | i hate autocomplete :P | 16:12 |
| jacekowski | ghostcube: but as far as i know there will be problem with google parts of api | 16:12 |
| jacekowski | ghostcube: that are missing from sources | 16:12 |
| b-man|laptop | *morning | 16:12 |
| jacekowski | ghostcube: so that would have to be done in illegal way which is pulling them out of firmware for normal android phone | 16:13 |
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| flailingmonkey | like gui api for android apps | 16:13 |
| ghostcube | hmmm, may we should finance chinese hackers :P | 16:14 |
| flailingmonkey | which is what most people really want | 16:14 |
| flailingmonkey | i'd rather support community based projects | 16:14 |
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| ghostcube | i think google will release the code | 16:17 |
| MohammadAG51 | not | 16:19 |
| * MohammadAG51 goes back to lurking | 16:19 | |
| jacekowski | ghostcube: google relased code of everything | 16:20 |
| jacekowski | ghostcube: except api for their services and stuff | 16:21 |
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| flailingmonkey | papo | 16:21 |
| auenfx4 | "The sms is being generated correctly when there is a missed call however it as it is not reaching your handset our supplier is requesting that you test on a different handset and confirm as they are unable to see any problems at their end." | 16:22 |
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| auenfx4 | that sound like an issue someone else was/is having with their n900? | 16:22 |
| ghostcube | jacekowski: hmmm, thats bad | 16:22 |
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| jacekowski | ghostcube: that can be just copied and pasted | 16:24 |
| jacekowski | ghostcube: and i think it would be legal if it would be done by end user | 16:24 |
| Ikarus | flailingmonkey: afaik, the Google closed parts of the Dalvik libs is pretty limited and easily reimplemented | 16:24 |
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| pupnik | Ikarus: frankly there is no good reason for android apps to be tied to one OS, imo | 16:26 |
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| pupnik | i would like to see that wall knocked down | 16:27 |
| jacekowski | Ikarus: it's licensing problem | 16:27 |
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| Venemo | you would first need a working JRE on Maemo, then the Google specific libs | 16:27 |
| Duckboot | pupnik: So - There is a good possibility of x-compiling Android Apps to Maemo/Meego? | 16:27 |
| jacekowski | Venemo: it's not jre | 16:28 |
| Ikarus | jacekowski: no it isn't | 16:28 |
| jacekowski | Duckboot: no | 16:28 |
| MohammadAG51 | Flandry, ping | 16:28 |
| Ikarus | jacekowski: the dalvik vm itself can be ported | 16:28 |
| Ikarus | jacekowski: the libraries can be reimplemented | 16:28 |
| jacekowski | Duckboot: these apps are not compiled as such | 16:28 |
| jacekowski | Duckboot: it's very similiar to java | 16:28 |
| Duckboot | jacekowski: Ok? Is the Dalvik VM the culprit? | 16:28 |
| jacekowski | yes | 16:28 |
| Duckboot | Mmm - Ok. | 16:29 |
| pupnik | ltimately the DRM may be the roadblock | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | everything runs on dalvik | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | and there are 3 problems | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | fucked up build system | 16:29 |
| ghostcube | JRE for N900? i would be glad to have an working flash 10.x | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | dependence on bionic | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | ghostcube: i disabled flash | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | and google libs | 16:29 |
| pupnik | lets encourage sites to adopt alternatives to flash | 16:29 |
| jacekowski | bionic can be worked around | 16:30 |
| pupnik | particularly for video | 16:30 |
| jacekowski | <video> | 16:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | that would never arrive too | 16:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | so you'd be stuck | 16:30 |
| MohammadAG51 | microb doesn't support HTML5 afaik | 16:30 |
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| pupnik | i support Jobs on this one | 16:31 |
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| Duckboot | Well - I have to go - pickup kids and stuff - Laterz. | 16:31 |
| pupnik | cu | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | cya | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | pupnik, I don't | 16:31 |
| Venemo | microb supports html 5 as much as Firefox does | 16:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | HTML5 is meh | 16:31 |
| Ikarus | Venemo: HTML 5 as much as Firefox 3 does roughly | 16:32 |
| pupnik | MohammadAG51: less proprietary standards. less binary blobs. less trojans | 16:32 |
| Ikarus | upgrading gecko within microB is a interesting plan though | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | trojans eh | 16:32 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: But it's such a pretty horsie! | 16:32 |
| jacekowski | pupnik: less functionality | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | less accurate | 16:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | (showed me as living in NYC) | 16:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | i seriously don't understand one thing | 16:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | if flash 10 on android is unaccelerated | 16:34 |
| MohammadAG51 | isn't it just 9 + a version bump | 16:34 |
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| pupnik | i would avoid advocating closed source for maemo | 16:34 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG51: it is | 16:34 |
| flailingmonkey | apparently is is completely driver dependent | 16:34 |
| pupnik | that includes flash upgrades | 16:34 |
| flailingmonkey | so no guarantees for acceleration just for having 2.2 | 16:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | jacekowski, so just change the version number from 9 to 10 | 16:35 |
| MohammadAG51 | and you have flash 10 | 16:35 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG51: There are certain features that are only present in 10, that are not user-visible | 16:36 |
| MohammadAG51 | SpeedEvil, do they matter for most sites? | 16:36 |
| flailingmonkey | do sites that upgrade to 10 stop working completely for users with v9 | 16:37 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG51: It depends. Little - as I understand it to users. | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | i don't see flash 8 running flash 9 sites :) | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | flailingmonkey: yes. | 16:38 |
| flux | rd-mode doesn't give any special magic powers to skip boot sequence or further disable watchdogs? | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | flailingmonkey: if they set the 'require 10' - they do | 16:38 |
| SpeedEvil | require 10 flag | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | so just hex 9 into 10 | 16:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | as a version number of course | 16:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Some sites set 10 fags on stuff that doesn't need it | 16:39 |
| flailingmonkey | ah, so some features require it, but mostly it is a setting from the site/swf | 16:39 |
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| MohammadAG51 | that's what i'm referring to | 16:39 |
| flailingmonkey | i think that is more important than acceleration, just getting rid of the extra hoops to jump through | 16:40 |
| ghostcube | the problem is some pages just want an flash player 10.x to load | 16:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | acceleration doesn't work yet | 16:42 |
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| ghostcube | i know its admin problem but who cares if the webmaster is a jurk | 16:42 |
| MohammadAG51 | on the froyo beta | 16:42 |
| flux | apparently it is not practical to have a serial cable for n900, and in any case, it wouldn't help my anyway? | 16:43 |
| SpeedEvil | flux: There is no readily available serial cable at all. | 16:44 |
| flux | speedevil, is it known how to connect one? | 16:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | no. | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - it's 1.8V serial to three of the pads under the battery. | 16:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I hope to be able to do more research on this in a week or so. | 16:46 |
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| dneary | X-Fade, Ping? | 16:47 |
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| dneary | X-Fade, What do you think about turning on the general query log for a few minutes on wiki.maemo.org? | 16:47 |
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| dneary | (there might not be a need - just got another idea) | 16:47 |
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| ghostcube | woah guys a question can anyone patch the software keyboard | 16:48 |
| ghostcube | i dont want to bother but the new layout sux like hell | 16:48 |
| ghostcube | o.O | 16:48 |
| SpeedEvil | ghostcube: no. | 16:49 |
| ghostcube | :| | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | ghostcube: the keyboard itself is closed-source. But. | 16:49 |
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| MOUD | Hey all | 16:49 |
| SpeedEvil | The API is open - and people have been playing with doing their own. | 16:49 |
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| ghostcube | ah ok so maybe there is another layout sometime? | 16:49 |
| ghostcube | or just try to fiddle my own | 16:49 |
| ghostcube | :D | 16:50 |
| MOUD | How can I create a separated skype ringtone from other calls? | 16:50 |
| ghostcube | MOUD: good question | 16:50 |
| MOUD | ghostcube: thanks | 16:50 |
| ghostcube | :) | 16:50 |
| flailingmonkey | there is only one ringtone, the (closed-source?) phone app doesn't have separate ones | 16:50 |
| SpeedEvil | http://blog.rburchell.com/2010/06/maemo-portrait-keyboard-yes-we-can.html | 16:51 |
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| ghostcube | SpeedEvil: thx | 16:51 |
| flailingmonkey | this includes many possible features such as setting personal ringtones for contacts too | 16:52 |
| ghostcube | the vert sms app uses this layout of the keyboard | 16:52 |
| SpeedEvil | ghostcube: This works in all apps though | 16:52 |
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| MOUD | flailingmonkey: thanks for the info | 16:52 |
| flailingmonkey | MOUD, no problem. it would be nice to be able to do such things, but the right place to do it is in the phone app | 16:55 |
| jrk__ | lol penis | 16:55 |
| flailingmonkey | a possible approach would be to switch the audio file with the ringtone, but its hacky and a race to do it before the phone starts trying to read the file | 16:56 |
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| MOUD | is there a good (working) app for youtube? | 16:56 |
| lcuk | youtube | 16:57 |
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| ghostcube | no need for any apps to crawl youtube o.o | 16:57 |
| flux | flailingmonkey, you could point ringtone to be played from a FUSE filesystem? | 16:57 |
| flux | flailingmonkey, but that would be even a greater kludge :) | 16:57 |
| ghostcube | hm even on my s60 i can use ringtones for every group and person lol | 16:58 |
| MOUD | i feel uncomfortable using web browsing instead a youtube app | 16:58 |
| flailingmonkey | not sure about quality, but there is zoutube. I'm excited to try out the mafw-grilo-sources | 16:58 |
| SpeedEvil | ghostcube: Have you looked at the speed of update? | 16:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | MOUD, use zoutube | 16:58 |
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| SpeedEvil | ghostcube: videos are generally very jerky on the web browser. | 16:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | it opens up in the default media player | 16:58 |
| MOUD | Thanks, I'll give a try | 16:58 |
| ghostcube | SpeedEvil: yeah thats true | 16:59 |
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| ghostcube | but none of the apps really worked for me tilll today | 16:59 |
| MohammadAG51 | well | 16:59 |
| MohammadAG51 | youtube sucks on my i5 | 16:59 |
| ghostcube | heh | 16:59 |
| flailingmonkey | in most cases, phone OS's are designed with the dialing/phone calling as #1 priority. in maemo, its just an app | 16:59 |
| ghostcube | oh.. ok | 16:59 |
| MohammadAG51 | the N97 was the best phone | 17:00 |
| MohammadAG51 | cause after each call, it'd shut down to save battery | 17:00 |
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| flailingmonkey | its really unfortunate there isn't even a plugin interface for the phone app, which would let people extend it | 17:00 |
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| * MohammadAG51 ponders what removing telepathy-ring would do | 17:01 | |
| ghostcube | huh healtcheck updates pulls in a lot uf qt stuff | 17:02 |
| ghostcube | :D | 17:02 |
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| MohammadAG51 | yeah, he moved to 4.7.3 | 17:02 |
| MOUD | Zoutube is nice and I can even download the video XD | 17:02 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Just tested and voted for shopper | 17:02 |
| * MohammadAG51 kills docpurge | 17:03 | |
| flux | phew, flashinh root was enough | 17:03 |
| lbt | fiferboy: :) thanks... | 17:03 |
| lbt | you like? | 17:03 |
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| lbt | anything need changing? | 17:03 |
| flailingmonkey | video download? that is excellent | 17:03 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: It's very nice. Gestures, scrolling, portrait mode all work great. | 17:03 |
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| fiferboy | lbt: I need to test making an actual list, but I like that there are default items/categories | 17:04 |
| lbt | the gestures have improved haven't they - seem more reliable now | 17:04 |
| lbt | heh - did the 'help' items work? | 17:04 |
| fiferboy | lbt: Yes, they definitely seem easier. | 17:04 |
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| fiferboy | Yes, the help items were very helpful | 17:05 |
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| fiferboy | I have been toying around with porting my birdlist to declarative, but I haven't made the plunge yet | 17:05 |
| lbt | ah.... Qt has internal 'options' which I use ... I need one so it doesn't create help items *every* time you do a New list | 17:05 |
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| lbt | oh, that's all Diablo code | 17:06 |
| lbt | pure C++ | 17:06 |
| lbt | although I'm pretty sure nothing remains from Zaurus/Qtopia ! | 17:06 |
| MOUD | is there any FLV to MP4 converter for N900? (like "convert on the go") | 17:07 |
| fiferboy | I did some Qtopia programming - a lot has changed since then | 17:08 |
| lbt | mainly on the 'fancy' side... although even more as we move to a graphical view of the world and not widgets | 17:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | So, kids. | 17:11 |
| lbt | goats to you too! | 17:12 |
| flailingmonkey | howdy | 17:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's suddenly a very depressing market for everybody but Apple. | 17:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Talk about skipping ahead a generation. | 17:13 |
| Appiah | ? | 17:13 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: You getting an iPhone? | 17:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, doubt it. | 17:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, the hardware is droolworthy, but I know the software wont ever get close to stacking up. | 17:14 |
| Termana | He has no retinas | 17:14 |
| ghostcube | kismet needs lova :D | 17:14 |
| fiferboy | Things will catch up to Apple pretty quickly | 17:14 |
| Myrtti | *grumble* | 17:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, I sure hope so. | 17:15 |
| flailingmonkey | i like the design, but i thought the previous ones looked dumb | 17:15 |
| lbt | Myrtti: you should try Shopper :) | 17:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, but if Nokia's plans for OMAP3/WVGA for Harmattan pan out it aint gonna be Nokia. | 17:15 |
| fiferboy | Android is almost there now. We'll have to see what Meego does | 17:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Android is a sad joke. | 17:16 |
| fiferboy | The hardware looks nice | 17:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | MeeGo is more of Maemo's bullshit while jettisoning most of Maemo's inertia out the window. | 17:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Meh | 17:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Snapdragon isn't any more interesting than OMAP3. | 17:16 |
| ghostcube | isnt meego intel dev headed? | 17:17 |
| Termana | GeneralAntilles, So tell me again - if you don't like iPhone, you don't like Android and you think MeeGo is more Maemo bullshit - what platform do you think your going to use... | 17:17 |
| Termana | BLACKBERRY? | 17:17 |
| Termana | lol | 17:17 |
| ghostcube | Win7 | 17:17 |
| fiferboy | WebOS | 17:17 |
| ghostcube | :P | 17:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Termana, probably MeeGo. | 17:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Termana, sadly there's a distinct lack of satisfying choices in the market. | 17:18 |
| microlith | MeeGo is the only real option going forward, everything else is closed or just crap | 17:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and MeeGo barely manages to dodge those descriptions. | 17:18 |
| * Termana groans | 17:18 | |
| ghostcube | it wont have dpkg ... so its a bit of crappy | 17:18 |
| lbt | ghostcube: sure it will | 17:18 |
| ghostcube | for rpm? | 17:18 |
| Termana | I think I'm going to need something more than what I'm drinking now | 17:18 |
| Termana | Water | 17:19 |
| Termana | :P | 17:19 |
| fiferboy | I almost dipped my toe in the Android pool about a month ago, but I decided to stick it out with Maemo/Meego for the time being | 17:19 |
| lbt | it may not install packages... but I'm sure we can get something on there ;) | 17:19 |
| microlith | Termana: vodka, looks the same from a distance | 17:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, I couldn't stand Android. | 17:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Nexus One is quite uninspiring. | 17:19 |
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| * lbt has an Android thingy | 17:19 | |
| ghostcube | lbt: hmmm.... ok but dpkg management is very cool | 17:19 |
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| lbt | not very exciting though | 17:19 |
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| Termana | lbt, thats right, you got a Pulse didn't you? | 17:19 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Android has enough interesting that I was thinking it over | 17:20 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: And I have never handled one, which was probably part of the allure | 17:20 |
| lbt | Termana: yep | 17:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, yeah, it's not great in person. | 17:20 |
| N900lover | yo....anybody else jumpin ship to iphone 4 ? | 17:20 |
| lbt | pretty amazing for £90 | 17:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | The whole Java thing really cripples it. | 17:20 |
| Termana | N900lover, the whole room | 17:20 |
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| N900lover | our fat n900 bricks look pretty outdated now dont they? | 17:21 |
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| Termana | lbt agrees wholeheartedly | 17:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Indeed they do. | 17:21 |
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| flux | butbut, it's not the size, it's how you use it :( | 17:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | and worse yet since Nokia's dropping them like the bricks they are. | 17:21 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Phone - can you point me at any other documentation I've missed? | 17:21 |
| N900lover | to make matters worse nokia is taking a dump on n900 users ,,,,load of crap | 17:22 |
| Appiah | what | 17:22 |
| Termana | Let us not forget - iOS is based on real, certified UNIX. Are you a man without using a fully POSIX/SUS compliant OS? | 17:22 |
| MOUD | bye all | 17:22 |
| Appiah | is nokia shitting on me? | 17:22 |
| lbt | aww, poor N900lover | 17:23 |
| N900lover | appiah - yes | 17:23 |
| Termana | Appiah, no, but if you want to be shitted on I can help you | 17:23 |
| N900lover | iphone 4 blows our brick out of the water dont ya think? | 17:23 |
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| Appiah | Termana: oh you! :) | 17:23 |
| lbt | N900lover: by whose metrics? | 17:23 |
| Appiah | N900lover: tell me more | 17:23 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Sounds like you need a pick-me-up - the Jays are in your neck of the woods | 17:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, gonna go watch the Marlins on Friday. | 17:24 |
| N900lover | lbt: every thinking man's metrics | 17:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, if only the Rays didn't make every game into a struggle. | 17:24 |
| lbt | N900lover: I guess Apple hardly ever shit on their devs .... <ROFL> | 17:24 |
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| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: The Rays should do well once they get to the Jays pen | 17:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Started out the season where it was boring watching them run guys around the bases. | 17:24 |
| lbt | N900lover: what thinking man bought an N900 which was never intended to be much more than a PoC ? | 17:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Now the offense is in such a slump that every game is like the hardest they've ever played. | 17:25 |
| N900lover | lbt: apple doesnt drop support on their devices 5 months after coming to market | 17:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, with the way our offense is playing, we'll see. ;) | 17:25 |
| lbt | N900lover: drop support? I just loaded PR1.2 | 17:25 |
| N900lover | nokia are the experts at showing the middle gfinger to the customer | 17:25 |
| Appiah | haha | 17:25 |
| Appiah | did nokia drop support now? | 17:25 |
| Termana | N900lover, no, they just, you know, drop support for devices that have the same hardware as the generation-after's hardware | 17:25 |
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| Appiah | where did you get this info from? | 17:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, yeah, so did we. :) | 17:26 |
| SpeedEvil | History. | 17:26 |
| N900lover | lbt: screw 1.2...bunch of bug fixes thas all. no meego man....no freaking meego.....fail | 17:26 |
| Appiah | there will be meego | 17:26 |
| lbt | so fixing bugs isn't support? | 17:26 |
| Termana | iPhone 2G/iPod Touch First Gen uses the same hardware as the iPhone 3G. But no updates for iPhone 2G/First Gen iTouch users | 17:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, there are more regressions than bug fixes. :) | 17:26 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: nonetheless ... that's not the same as dropping support | 17:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, and, no, it's not really support when there's barely enough team left to test the simple stuff. | 17:27 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Those regressions are features | 17:27 |
| N900lover | meego for N900 will not happen.... I am not interested in an os hacked together by pimple faced kids ....community support my ass | 17:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, technical definitions don't serve much use when you're talking about perceived customer experienc. | 17:27 |
| lbt | although I grant you that N900 isn't a strategic platform for Nokia | 17:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, the customer is getting a months-delayed minor update that's rife with bugs and brings little in the way of new features. | 17:27 |
| lbt | but I expect it to be the most open phone device available for years to come | 17:27 |
| Appiah | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900 <- but the team leader is from Nokia? | 17:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sadly | 17:28 |
| Disconnect | N900lover: better avoid any linux devices then.. | 17:28 |
| frals | SpeedEvil: wappushd.. but i cant for the life of me find docs any where on the web, package with headers is wappushd-dev | 17:28 |
| N900lover | linux is overrated | 17:28 |
| fiferboy | Actually, PR1.2 is quite a lot nicer to develop for in my opinion. Nice Qt libs, some fixes to desktop widgets | 17:28 |
| Appiah | and several team members are from nokia | 17:28 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: which could explain why they're comitted to MeeGo... | 17:28 |
| Appiah | N900lover: are you just flaming now? | 17:28 |
| N900lover | 1.2 is a huge freaking fail | 17:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, a platform that wont be coming to N900 except as whatever the community can make happen. | 17:28 |
| Disconnect | lbt: fyi google's offerings (adp1/2, n1) are way more open.. | 17:28 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: pretty much the definition of "open" | 17:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, mmm | 17:29 |
| Appiah | http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900#The_team_and_the_work N900lover this looks like Nokia is supporting it, not just "community" | 17:29 |
| Disconnect | basically everything except gl and the bootloader source (the interface is published).. | 17:29 |
| N900lover | screw meego community support for N900 | 17:29 |
| lbt | Disconnect: sorry, I meant "open linux" | 17:29 |
| lbt | you're probably right | 17:29 |
| * Disconnect prolly wouldn't have gotten the n900 if he'd seen the up to date "whats open and whats closed" graphic instead of the outdated wiki page. | 17:29 | |
| N900lover | convenient excuse for Arsi Jaksi and his gang | 17:29 |
| N900lover | iphone looks pretty sweet....nokia yoo | 17:30 |
| lbt | Disconnect: I'm glad Android is out there... it'll push MeeGo to be more open than I think they'd otherwise have been | 17:30 |
| fiferboy | Whoa, it's a maemo downer here today. Good thing I wasn't here a month ago | 17:30 |
| Disconnect | lbt: yah. | 17:30 |
| Disconnect | and in the meantime, nitdroid ;) | 17:30 |
| lbt | N900lover: let us know how that goes for you | 17:30 |
| N900lover | meego will never take off | 17:30 |
| lbt | heh | 17:30 |
| Venemo | N900lover: you are right in a way but your statements contradict your name | 17:30 |
| frals | ah, i love when this channel turns in to "whinge and cry about everything" | 17:30 |
| * GeneralAntilles just doesn't have the energy left to start from scratch with MeeGo. | 17:31 | |
| Termana | N900lover, I have made a video for you. It will put ALL your worries aside | 17:31 |
| Termana | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWDwLnQAjs | 17:31 |
| N900lover | can i ask a question? how come nokia introduced N900 in India couple of days ago when they know N900 is dead?????? answer me this peeps | 17:31 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: I think I mentioned Qt is the future about 15 months ago.... :) | 17:31 |
| * lbt sees a flaw in N900lover's argument there | 17:32 | |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, that isn't a perfect answer to everything. :) | 17:32 |
| Appiah | I just see flames | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | maemo.org CSS still borked? | 17:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, that doesn't fix the fact that most of the core applications and plugins are underfeatured and broken | 17:32 |
| N900lover | flames??? discuss like a man | 17:32 |
| lbt | N900lover: "If I am right how come nothing matches my reality".... | 17:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | and wont ever really be fixed for N900 owners. | 17:32 |
| alterego | oh dear, I think I'm gonna go afk again. | 17:32 |
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| lbt | GeneralAntilles: I'd never "sell" an N900 to a consumer | 17:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, yet Nokia does on a daily basis. | 17:32 |
| SpeedEvil | frals: thanks | 17:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whatever you'd choose to do, Nokia has certainly advertised the device as something other than a niche developer device. | 17:33 |
| lbt | the same consumers who get to pick them up, try them and choose? | 17:33 |
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| alterego | heh, I'm a consumer and I wouldn't have any other device. | 17:33 |
| lbt | well... | 17:33 |
| N900lover | iphone wipes the floor with our little bricks | 17:33 |
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| lbt | N900lover: you said they were big bricks | 17:33 |
| lbt | make your mind up | 17:33 |
| alterego | if you're a developer, it really is the best platform to work with imo :/ | 17:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think it's fair to expect that Nokia would at least attempt to be competitive with the rest of the market as far as support is concerned. | 17:33 |
| Termana | lbt, :P | 17:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, which makes the fact that Nokia sucks as a company all the more painful. | 17:34 |
| N900lover | i admit i love N900 but..... nokia support it !!!! | 17:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | There really isn't anything better out there. | 17:34 |
| alterego | :) | 17:34 |
| Appiah | I'd only recommend N900 to linux nerds | 17:34 |
| ghostcube | ack | 17:34 |
| Ikarus | Appiah: I know enough non-Linux nerds owning one | 17:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's just that Nokia can't manage to go more than a generation without killing all of the inertia and goodwill they've built up. | 17:34 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: heh face it. Supporting an open linux based solution has large initial costs | 17:34 |
| N900lover | exit | 17:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, of course it does. | 17:34 |
| lbt | to change how you work | 17:35 |
| dneary | GeneralAntilles: I honestly don't think it's a big deal that Nokia aren't supporting MeeGo on N900, unless that means I won't be able to get on any phone networks with it | 17:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, but Nokia is a big company with big pockets. | 17:35 |
| N900lover | how do i freaking exit? | 17:35 |
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| alterego | I actually told a friend to wait for the next harmatten device. he bought an N900 a week ago. he loves it ^.^ | 17:35 |
| lbt | they're betting on a longer term payback | 17:35 |
| N900lover | \logoff | 17:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | dneary, just look at Talk. | 17:35 |
| alterego | so I was wrong :D | 17:35 |
| N900lover | \quit | 17:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | dneary, look at all the energy that's going out the window. | 17:35 |
| ghostcube | irssi? /quit | 17:35 |
| dneary | GeneralAntilles: Sure | 17:35 |
| N900lover | freaking irssi | 17:35 |
| dneary | GeneralAntilles: But here's the thing | 17:35 |
| lbt | N900 see the X at the top right.... | 17:35 |
| Termana | N900lover, close the window? | 17:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, doesn't help me or their existing customers in the short-term, though. :) | 17:35 |
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| lbt | N900 or the power button.... | 17:35 |
| alterego | GeneralAntilles: I agree. there seems to be too much bitching and not enough idea making. | 17:35 |
| lbt | GeneralAntilles: true | 17:36 |
| ghostcube | or use xchat | 17:36 |
| N900lover | bye peeps... N900 is da king !!!! | 17:36 |
| dneary | GeneralAntilles: There's some heat loss because the lid came off meego before the valves to bring the gas from one place to the other were all screwed in | 17:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, the blame for most of that we can place squarely on Nokia's shoulder's. | 17:36 |
| Termana | Hang on a second | 17:36 |
| Termana | Didn't he just bash the hell out of the n900 | 17:36 |
| Termana | Now its the king? | 17:36 |
| alterego | If there are more devs like me, who are just looking for a cool idea to develop, there's nothing there to give us inspiration. | 17:36 |
| dneary | But to *run* MeeGo on an N900 doesn't need you to be active on Maemo | 17:36 |
| lbt | N900lover: you still here? | 17:36 |
| N900lover | lbt: yea | 17:36 |
| lbt | damn | 17:36 |
| lbt | ;) | 17:37 |
| alterego | hahah | 17:37 |
| Termana | lol | 17:37 |
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| N900lover | alls i'm saying is why no meego on N900.... freaking why nokia????? n900 is da bomb | 17:37 |
| Termana | N900lover, especially if you put fire near the battery | 17:38 |
| Termana | boom | 17:38 |
| * lbt goes to post some letters... | 17:38 | |
| GeneralAntilles | N900lover, because Nokia is short-sighted. | 17:38 |
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| N900lover | freaking drivin me nuts nokia is | 17:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | They just see it as a cost | 17:38 |
| pupnik | i have measured batt up to 49 degrees c | 17:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | They don't see the other problems with the path they're taking. | 17:38 |
| N900lover | yes | 17:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like the fact that the community is going up in flames. | 17:38 |
| alterego | Well, they did say they'd help the community with a fully functional MeeGo instance for the N900 | 17:39 |
| N900lover | yes | 17:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | alterego, just like they "helped" with Fremantle for N8x0? :) | 17:39 |
| N900lover | disappointment | 17:39 |
| alterego | heh | 17:39 |
| Appiah | isnt there Fremantle for N8x0 ? | 17:39 |
| lbt | it was called Mer | 17:39 |
| alterego | I think that as Mer was dropped, what were they going to do? | 17:39 |
| lbt | and the Mer dev is now doing MeeGo on N900 | 17:40 |
| pupnik | GeneralAntilles: you need to explain your positions a little more thoroughly | 17:40 |
| pupnik | or risk being dismissed | 17:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, what about it? | 17:40 |
| alterego | exactly, Mer never really took off imo | 17:40 |
| lbt | 'cos almost no-one from "the community" helped make it work | 17:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, nor did much of that promised help from Nokia ever materialize. | 17:40 |
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| lbt | I'm not sure they promised much help for Mer | 17:41 |
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| lbt | bbiab | 17:41 |
| alterego | sure, and is there anyone in the "community" that actually cares anymore? we got the gles drivers we all wanted so much. and no one did scht with them... :( | 17:41 |
| Appiah | wooaah | 17:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, well, they did a LOT, actually. | 17:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | But the drivers were nearly useless. | 17:42 |
| pupnik | for e.g. "not officially supporting meego on n900 risks leaving many current develolpers behind if meego-on-n900 is not fully functional as a phone os" | 17:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | They hadn't actually been tested on N8x0. | 17:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | So we got a lot less than was promised. | 17:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, not even developers. | 17:42 |
| pupnik | develolpers is an interesting typo... | 17:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Losing those customers hurts the platform. | 17:42 |
| alterego | hrm, well, I guess it's hard to find scht these days in the forum. My app announcement on tmo was swamped in about 30 seconds by bitching. | 17:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | It generates a lot of ill will for Nokia as a company. | 17:42 |
| pupnik | why. customers still use the maemo5 | 17:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Perceptions are important, and people don't have a good perception of Nokia or Maemo. | 17:43 |
| microlith | pupnik: have you see TMO lately? | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Because if meego is supposed to be 'the thing of the future' - you have to push this into positive mindshare. | 17:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Large swaths of the community are in the process of tearing themselves to pieces because of Nokia. | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: You have to work with devs to get it to be the future. | 17:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | And most importantly. | 17:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Currently MeeGo is perceived badly by existing customers because it's the thing that's better than what you have but you're not allowed to have. | 17:43 |
| SpeedEvil | You have to give those devs users. | 17:44 |
| pupnik | because some loud people want backwards support for new OSes? | 17:44 |
| SpeedEvil | A dev community without users will die. | 17:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Contributors perceive it badly because of the "We're open! (but not really)" shit. | 17:44 |
| pupnik | i think there is some myopia happening | 17:44 |
| microlith | pupnik: considering the example Apple has set, is that an unreasonable expectation? | 17:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | pupnik, I think I'm tired of playing apologist for Nokia and being duped into being optimistic about their bullshit. | 17:45 |
| lcuk | apple has not set any standard - they just started from simple fundimental working principles and built from there | 17:45 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Don't you have to be optimistic until September? | 17:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | 'WE WANT LOTS OF MONEY!' | 17:45 |
| pupnik | given the history of maemo it is a fake pose to act shocked | 17:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Basic fundamental working principles. | 17:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Who's shocked? | 17:45 |
| * GeneralAntilles is just tired. | 17:45 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia needs to learn how to generate goodwill. | 17:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | So far they completely fail there. | 17:46 |
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| pupnik | well this is how it is. new device new OS | 17:46 |
| alterego | It's a valid point, I think nokia are too focused on creating something good, pushing it out, then moving on to making something else good. not so concerned about a more, organic evolution maybe? rather than creating hype for what we have as a stepping stone to their future, they're just pushing it as some black box in itself (it being N900) | 17:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stuff they TRY to do to generate goodwill just ends up backfiring on them. | 17:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | alterego, it's worse because there are no TECHNICAL arguments to not providing that sort of evolution. | 17:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're just sick as an organization. | 17:47 |
| alterego | Indeed, though, that was the case with fremantle Mer on N8x0 | 17:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | But it's not the case for N900 and Harmattan | 17:47 |
| alterego | The only headache they'd have withn Harmatten on N900 is multi-touch :/ | 17:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | The bullshit about capacitive is exactly that. | 17:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh | 17:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Multitouch input solutions are so gimmicky | 17:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia's just too goddamn cheap to do it. | 17:48 |
| Appiah | What do you need Multitouch for in Harmatten? | 17:48 |
| Appiah | is there no way to navigate without it? | 17:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Appiah, knowing Nokia's UI designers, probably everything. | 17:48 |
| alterego | heh | 17:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no lock mode, you just have to have two fingers on the screen at all times. ;) | 17:49 |
| jaska | keyboardless? | 17:49 |
| Appiah | no lock? wtf | 17:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 17:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Appiah, joke. | 17:49 |
| Appiah | GeneralAntilles: :D | 17:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | But that's the sort of shit they'd pull as a justification for not supporting the N900. | 17:49 |
| Termana | You realise Nokia is willing to help get Harmattan on n900 | 17:49 |
| alterego | So, we have a bunch of users that need portrait for one-handed operation. Nokia, obviously listening very carefully will make their entire interfce only accessible via multitouch ;) | 17:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Termana, I'll believe it when I see it. | 17:49 |
| * GeneralAntilles doubts they'll bother licensing Flash, for instance. | 17:50 | |
| alterego | Termana, all we've really heard is a bunch of Nokia devices Linux/OSS advocates say they intend to help as much as they can. | 17:50 |
| alterego | That may be pessimistic, but it's pretty much what I've ascertained from the posts. | 17:51 |
| Appiah | speaking of flash | 17:51 |
| Appiah | Where's Flash 10? | 17:51 |
| * Appiah ducks | 17:51 | |
| Termana | alterego, even if that was the case, what more do you expect, theres no public release of Harmattan. | 17:51 |
| alterego | why don't we just chroot MeeGo. there, no need for BME et al. ;) | 17:51 |
| konfoo | flash always ran like crap on the n900 | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not that bad | 17:52 |
| Termana | You can't do something with nothing. And they can't say anything about what isn't public | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | GeneralAntilles: news? | 17:52 |
| SpeedEvil | bbc iplayer fullscreen is actually quite OK. | 17:52 |
| Appiah | runs as crappy as it does on my laptop/pc | 17:52 |
| Appiah | no diff really for me | 17:52 |
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| konfoo | adobe promised flash 10.1 at the last partner meeting | 17:52 |
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| alterego | Termana: I expected less, that news actually made me happy :) | 17:52 |
| konfoo | however they specifically weaseled when i tried to pin them on n900 | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: o/ | 17:53 |
| konfoo | 'we provide it to nokia, they have to implement, the responsibility is theirs' | 17:53 |
| alterego | otoh, I will probably get the next device ... If it's shiney enough. and has a keyboard .... pahahahaa | 17:53 |
| SpeedEvil | \o | 17:54 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: the n8 you mean?> | 17:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | konfoo, yeah, I think Nokia probably decided it wasn't worth the effort. | 17:54 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: bo the Harmatten device. | 17:55 |
| konfoo | thing is adobe is putting flash 10.1 on everything. any device that does not support 10.1 for hardware requirements gets a newer flash lite. if the n900 doesn't get 10.1 it's dead as a flash platform | 17:55 |
| alterego | I'll get it anyway if I get the DDP ... | 17:56 |
| jacekowski | konfoo: flash is dead | 17:56 |
| alterego | and provided I actually have a job .. | 17:56 |
| jacekowski | konfoo: less devices support it the better | 17:56 |
| konfoo | since 10.1 is needed for dynamic streaming and a host of other stuff | 17:56 |
| ghostcube | http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100416-709971.html | 17:56 |
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| alterego | jacekowski: I agree, Steve said so! :D | 17:56 |
| jacekowski | konfoo: html5 can do videos | 17:56 |
| konfoo | flash is dead huh? i guess our imaginary cuscomers are.. imaginary | 17:56 |
| GAN900 | Capacitive is really the knife in the kidney with the Harmattan device for me. | 17:56 |
| konfoo | html5 has a long way to go | 17:57 |
| jacekowski | konfoo: do you want to bet that i can do everything in js that you can do in flash? | 17:57 |
| konfoo | jace: look im not going to argue with you. i work for a CDN | 17:57 |
| dneary | debugging server software on a server where I don't have root is.... hard | 17:57 |
| GAN900 | Not without HTML5 support on Maemo | 17:58 |
| konfoo | 90% of our customers stream flash. 1-2% are doing html5. the rest are doing windows media/quicktime | 17:58 |
| GAN900 | Which will never come either. | 17:58 |
| konfoo | sorry that's just the way it is | 17:58 |
| konfoo | personally i have no interest in flash for video | 17:58 |
| flux | jacekowski, can you do a voice teleconferecing app in javascript? | 17:59 |
| hrw | GAN900: maemo and new software? :D | 17:59 |
| GAN900 | hrw, yeah. . . . | 17:59 |
| konfoo | flux: pointless argument since most people think 'video' and assume a file played over http from a server. that's 5% of all cdn customers | 18:00 |
| SpeedEvil | konfoo: rtmpe? | 18:00 |
| *** bernie_afk is now known as bernie | 18:00 | |
| konfoo | what about rtmpe? | 18:00 |
| SpeedEvil | konfoo: I mean the other 90% | 18:01 |
| konfoo | maybe 10% of the remaining 90% use rtmpe | 18:01 |
| konfoo | none use rtmps | 18:01 |
| konfoo | none use drm | 18:01 |
| konfoo | (that says something) | 18:01 |
| SpeedEvil | But rtmpe is secure! :) | 18:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Interesting. | 18:02 |
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| konfoo | when presented with the facts most companies dont use drm since a simple token/ticketing system will do fine | 18:02 |
| konfoo | they dont want to pain of provisioning/managing drm licenses | 18:02 |
| konfoo | and.. it is indeed a massive pain | 18:02 |
| * SpeedEvil was pondering something earlier that stuck a proxy in the middle of a flash stream, and rebandwidthed it. | 18:02 | |
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| konfoo | a transcoder? | 18:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Into the original player window. | 18:03 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 18:03 |
| alterego | GAN900: who actually asked for multitouch anyway? I can understand it'd be neat, but only as an augmentation to the precision of resistive. I want both, why can't they be truely revolutionary and do that :D | 18:03 |
| alterego | and keep the keyboard. | 18:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Clearly the next device should have an inductive keyboard. | 18:03 |
| konfoo | most encoders do multibitrate doing away with that need these days. at least, very few customer demands for transcoding besides batch transcode of on-demand files | 18:04 |
| Shapeshifter | lol tmo has reached a new low http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55550 | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | konfoo: Sure. That's not the problem. My problem is I wander to various site on flash on my phone. And it chugs, as my network won't do that bitrate of video. | 18:04 |
| SpeedEvil | konfoo: I was wondering about a solution to this. | 18:04 |
| BugBlue | Shapeshifter: even 4chan seems to have better posts | 18:05 |
| konfoo | client-side upnp transcoder? | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | lol Shapeshifter | 18:05 |
| konfoo | has to suppor the remote site's link and url structure though, and rip out the streaming urls... | 18:05 |
| SpeedEvil | congerro: yes. | 18:05 |
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| konfoo | speed: losing battle, get a faster device ;) | 18:06 |
| SpeedEvil | konfoo: somewhat tricky. rtmpsrv - almost does that. | 18:06 |
| konfoo | rtmp is an insanely crappy protocol | 18:06 |
| SpeedEvil | konfoo: network bandwidth. (though CPU can be a problem too. | 18:06 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, it is. | 18:06 |
| MohammadAG | The application '<unknown>' lost its connection to the display :0.0; | 18:07 |
| MohammadAG | most likely the X server was shut down or you killed/destroyed | 18:07 |
| MohammadAG | the application. | 18:07 |
| MohammadAG | should I be worried :) | 18:07 |
| konfoo | did u try rebooting? :P | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | What actually happened to cause that message? | 18:08 |
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| benno2 | Hi, when creating my own .deb package. can I put my files in /opt right from the start ? eg /opt/maemo/myapp/bin/myapp and then symlink /usr/bin/myapp to /opt/maemo/bin/myapp , thus avoiding to use maemo-optify ? is this ok to make an official .deb which could be uploaded to the maemo repositories ? | 18:09 |
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| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, not sure, it just popped up while using ssh | 18:12 |
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| barisione | if my package has a -dbg package too, which section should I use for the -dbg one? | 18:13 |
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| barisione | is devel ok? | 18:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | I assume there is no generalised - 'with debugging symbols' repo? | 18:14 |
| jacekowski | barisione: just skip that in -dbg | 18:15 |
| jacekowski | hmm | 18:15 |
| jacekowski | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Debugging_Guide#Creating_DBG_Packages | 18:15 |
| jacekowski | Package: libgtk2.0-0-dbg | 18:16 |
| jacekowski | Section: libdevel | 18:16 |
| jacekowski | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/maemo-scrobbler-dbg/1.1-1/ | 18:16 |
| jacekowski | devel and libdevel | 18:16 |
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| GAN900 | alterego, Apple's marketing. | 18:21 |
| GAN900 | alterego, I'd love to see them push Stantum. | 18:21 |
| alterego | GAN900: my sentiments exactly :S | 18:21 |
| alterego | GAN900: I can understand the appeal on a rather larger screen, and maybe it's a little neat, but, I don't want it if I have to sacrifice what we already have ... | 18:22 |
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| GAN900 | Precision and versatility. | 18:22 |
| GAN900 | I can't stand capacitive. | 18:23 |
| alterego | Why can't they mesh both technologies though? | 18:23 |
| GAN900 | Expensive | 18:23 |
| GAN900 | Size | 18:23 |
| alterego | Everything is expensive, to begin with. | 18:23 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: SAW is actually probably what you'd want. | 18:23 |
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| alterego | The point is, if the tech was there, and everyone used it, everyone would be happy. | 18:23 |
| GAN900 | Because most of their braindead customers think they want "What the iPhone has" | 18:24 |
| alterego | Prices would drop, and consumers would have the best of the best. | 18:24 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touchscreen#Surface_acoustic_wave | 18:24 |
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| alterego | SpeedEvil: seen that before, v'neat .:) | 18:27 |
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| loufoque | why doesn't the N900 support multi-touch? Patent problem? | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | it's a resistive screen? | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:35 |
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| Stskeeps | also, gtk and qt wasn't until recently able to use it properly | 18:35 |
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| Stskeeps | or X, for that matter | 18:36 |
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| marmoute | Stskeeps: X has multipointer for ages | 18:38 |
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| loufoque | there is a fork that does IIRC | 18:39 |
| loufoque | it's not in X.org | 18:39 |
| loufoque | oh no my bad it's in since XServer 1.7 | 18:40 |
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| Ro9u3oR_ | I was hoping someone could help me with setting up my internet connection on a N900 | 18:46 |
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| lcuk | Ro9u3oR_, for most people its as easy as connecting to wifi, or to mobile web? | 18:46 |
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| Ro9u3oR_ | Im using t-mobile service and my phone isn't picking up the service | 18:47 |
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| Ro9u3oR_ | i was wondering what i would need to do in order for my phone to pick up the data connection | 18:48 |
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| lcuk | Ro9u3oR_, contact tmobile and check your sim is 3g enabled and ask for the correct credentials | 18:48 |
| lcuk | or do a google to the same effect | 18:49 |
| E0x | Ro9u3oR_: you don't see the connection of you providers | 18:49 |
| E0x | in the internet conection menu ? | 18:49 |
| Ro9u3oR_ | I see the tmobile connection however no data | 18:50 |
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| E0x | what do you mean with not data ? | 18:50 |
| E0x | not work when you get connect ? | 18:50 |
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| Ro9u3oR_ | yes | 18:50 |
| E0x | i read something about n900 and tmobile issues | 18:50 |
| E0x | at the forum | 18:50 |
| Ro9u3oR_ | i can send text msgs but cant surf the net | 18:50 |
| E0x | in other phone with the same sim the data work ? | 18:51 |
| Ro9u3oR_ | I havent tried that yet | 18:52 |
| Ro9u3oR_ | but good idea | 18:52 |
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| rodalda | hi does any one knows how to tetheer via wifi? | 19:02 |
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| orangey | hello all! | 19:04 |
| orangey | I'm looking to overclock my pr 1.2. Is there any good guides specific to 1.2? | 19:04 |
| rodalda | hello orangey! | 19:04 |
| orangey | or should I follow this one: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=595582&postcount=774 | 19:04 |
| alterego | orangey: I think, if you want to do something that stupid, you're on your own :P | 19:05 |
| alterego | At least, that's my view. | 19:05 |
| orangey | i'm pretty sure you're in the minority | 19:05 |
| orangey | most people feel supporting others is a more natural instinct | 19:06 |
| alterego | Well, there'xs supporting, and there's pushing off a cliff. | 19:06 |
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| alterego | I see this as more the latter :P | 19:06 |
| orangey | alterego: so you must know of some bad thing that overclocking does? | 19:06 |
| alterego | I've heard at least one person has completely fried their device. | 19:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol | 19:07 |
| orangey | it sounds like the best thing to do with that information is publish it widely | 19:07 |
| alterego | Why? | 19:08 |
| alterego | If you want to do it, do it. | 19:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | orangey, it significantly reduces the lifetime of your SoC. | 19:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | orangey, and it has been published widely, TI has the docs on its website | 19:08 |
| orangey | alterego: so it can be assessed and incorporated into the narrative | 19:08 |
| alterego | Meh | 19:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | and engineers from both TI and Nokia has STRONGLY advised against it on numerous occasions. | 19:08 |
| d1b | GeneralAntilles: what about hacking the gsm module ;P | 19:09 |
| orangey | GeneralAntilles: because of reductions in cpu lifetime? | 19:09 |
| vldcnst | orangey: stock frequency is already somewhat overclocked, increasing that frequency even further will exponentially reduce the lifetime. | 19:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | orangey, yes, it may die on you in days or weeks. | 19:09 |
| SpeedEvil | IMO - it depends. If you're keeping it for a year - then I would say modest overclocking - say to 800 - is probably not going to kill it. Especially if you keep the voltage as low as possible. | 19:10 |
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| alterego | orangey: but you might get lucky, it might not die for months. | 19:10 |
| SpeedEvil | If you want it to last as long as possible, leave it at 600 max. | 19:10 |
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| alterego | But, until we have people that have had their devices overclocked for months, we don't know. Personally, I expect in about 6 months we'll start to hear a lot of people complaining their devices aren't reliable, constant crashing, and it'll turn out these people all over-clocked. | 19:11 |
| alterego | But we'll see. | 19:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 19:11 |
| vldcnst | 6 months? You're optimistic. | 19:11 |
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| alterego | Heh | 19:11 |
| SpeedEvil | We have not seen a rash of 'my n900 broke'. | 19:11 |
| alterego | 6 months is my general mid-term quick guess for pretty much anything. | 19:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I think it's fair to say that at least some of the people who overclocked would have commented on it if it was common. | 19:11 |
| alterego | MeeGo 1.1 will be out in 6 months | 19:11 |
| alterego | The next Nokia Harmatten device will be out in 6 months | 19:12 |
| alterego | PR1.3 will be out in 6 months | 19:12 |
| alterego | blah :P | 19:12 |
| vldcnst | and again, you're so optimistic. :) | 19:12 |
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| alterego | :D | 19:12 |
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| orangey | if overclocking makes the system that much more usable, I think it may actually be worth it, especially with the quick turnaround times of these devices. | 19:14 |
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| orangey | it would be ideal for my device to die, rather than have the undignified death of the n810 currently in my desk | 19:15 |
| alterego | orangey: well, if your turn around time is 6 months, go for it! | 19:15 |
| alterego | Though, personally, my contacts are at a minimum 12 months | 19:15 |
| alterego | Plus, I'm jobless so. | 19:16 |
| alterego | I'm obviously not as lucky as you. | 19:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm planning on keeping this phone at least 3 years. | 19:16 |
| alterego | Good luck Richard Branson! | 19:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | Unless something happens to it, or I get very rich. In which case, I may follow Richard Bransons example, which is not compatible with phones. | 19:16 |
| alterego | ~contracts .. | 19:16 |
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| orangey | what's his example? | 19:16 |
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| alterego | orangey: I just thought he was you, as you're obviously happy to throw around 600 quid every few months on a freakin' phone :P | 19:17 |
| orangey | you spent 600 quid for your n900? | 19:17 |
| orangey | There's your problem. | 19:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.pichunterblog.com/porn/celebs/denni-parkinson-and-richard-branson-05-2009.html (not worksafe) | 19:18 |
| alterego | orangey: I'm actually still counting how much I spent on my N900, the contract wwas 18 months for that one. | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: [om-devel][2010-06-08 16:35:05] <lars_> for bq27000 I have patches which merge it with the upstream bq27x00 driver, which hopefully make it into 2.6.36 | 19:18 |
| SpeedEvil | neat | 19:18 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 19:18 |
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| vldcnst | Denni is hot! | 19:18 |
| orangey | alterego: ouch | 19:18 |
| orangey | alterego: I got mine for about 450 US all in | 19:19 |
| alterego | Yeah, f*cking cheap American bitches .. | 19:19 |
| alterego | You have no idea how lucky you are .. | 19:19 |
| alterego | But at least I'm not a faat so .. | 19:19 |
| * SpeedEvil is not either! http://qkwv.com/weight.gif (worksafe) | 19:20 | |
| [[[paul]]] | Hey, that's not fair... only 67% of americans are overweight :) | 19:20 |
| alterego | Hah, sorry, I thought generalization was alright ;) | 19:20 |
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| [[[paul]]] | :P | 19:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | alterego, you, too, can not be socialist. | 19:22 |
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| alterego | :) | 19:23 |
| alterego | I think it's about pub time .. | 19:23 |
| orangey | another question.. thumbnailerd spends a lot of time working every boot | 19:23 |
| orangey | probably 2 hours every time I turn the system on | 19:23 |
| orangey | any way to avoid that? | 19:23 |
| SpeedEvil | KILLLLLIT!!!! | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Or edit the config file not to do that. | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | there is a thumb nailer config in there too | 19:24 |
| ljsdofuynsdfufuh | does the n900 dual boot with android yet? | 19:25 |
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| alterego | Yeah, I can't be bothered with this faggotry anymore, I'll see you guys/gals on the other side. | 19:25 |
| alterego | bbl | 19:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | ljsdofuynsdfufuh: Some people have booted android. As far as I'm aware - there is no howto | 19:25 |
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| [[[paul]]] | orangey: my N900 did that every reboot after upgrading to PR1.2, it stopped doing it so much when I rebuilt the tracker database with "tracker-processes -r" | 19:25 |
| timeless_mbp | GeneralAntilles: hey, fun reading | 19:26 |
| [[[paul]]] | orangey: of course in my case image viewer and media player didn't show any contents at all until I did that... | 19:26 |
| timeless_mbp | http://support.ovi.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&lang=en_GB&id=faqlist&cat=Store%20on%20your%20mobile&page=3 read the text below "What should I do if I have been charged twice for the same Ovi Store download?" | 19:26 |
| orangey | [[[paul]]]: interesting | 19:27 |
| orangey | [[[paul]]]: just tried it, now to see wha thappens | 19:27 |
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| [[[paul]]] | orangey: good luck! mine took about 3 minutes to rebuild and then all was calm after that | 19:27 |
| orangey | it took seconds here | 19:27 |
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| [[[paul]]] | depends on amount of media content I guess | 19:28 |
| orangey | [[[paul]]]: indeed, the problem is fixed! | 19:28 |
| orangey | thank you! | 19:28 |
| [[[paul]]] | excellent | 19:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I stuck a backup of my laptop / on it. ~16G. With _lots_ of files. | 19:29 |
| SpeedEvil | tracker went rather insane. | 19:29 |
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| * MohammadAG51 thinks his dpkg lists are borked | 19:45 | |
| MohammadAG51 | dpkg: parse error, in file `/var/lib/dpkg/available' near line 13485 package `repeatswitcherstatus': | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG51 | EOF during value of field `Maemo-Icon-26' (missing final newline) | 19:45 |
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| jperez26 | hey anyone and everyone | 19:46 |
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| xDaReaperx | Hi guys i need you're help for a min , my N900 restarted unexpectedly now .. i don't know for what reason | 19:47 |
| jperez26 | i was wondering if anyone else was having issues connecting to the diablo ssu community repo | 19:48 |
| vldcnst | OC'ed? | 19:48 |
| mikki-kun | xDaReaperx: playing with kernel-power? | 19:49 |
| xDaReaperx | no i didn't do anything | 19:49 |
| xDaReaperx | i created a Ad-hoc network today | 19:49 |
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| mikki-kun | hm, then it could be one of those "nokia doesn't even know what's the issue" issue | 19:49 |
| mikki-kun | /s/issue/issues | 19:49 |
| xDaReaperx | so how do i know why i rebooted ? | 19:50 |
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| xDaReaperx | this is the boot reason : sw_rst | 19:50 |
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| mikki-kun | hm... i am not sure, but most probably could have been die to some software... SoftWare_ReSet | 19:51 |
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| xDaReaperx | oh it's happening for the first time though | 19:52 |
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| jperez26 | i'll ask my question again later when others aren't afk. thanks any feelas | 19:56 |
| jperez26 | *fellas | 19:56 |
| dotblank | ugh phonon feels so bloated... | 19:57 |
| dotblank | it works.. but... | 19:57 |
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| jperez26 | well | 19:58 |
| jperez26 | the community-testing repo works | 19:58 |
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| jperez26 | i can't seem to connect to the community repo | 19:58 |
| jperez26 | gives me a 404 | 19:59 |
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| xDaReaperx | i used to get those 404's | 20:00 |
| xDaReaperx | but now it's fixed since the WiFi connection was not powerfull | 20:01 |
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| jperez26 | mine is always 100% cuz i'm right next to it | 20:02 |
| jperez26 | plus, all other repos work | 20:02 |
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| jperez26 | i still love my n810. i can't part with it. i've tried xD | 20:03 |
| RST38h | A group of adolescents interred at an internet addiction boot camp rose up against their oppressors last week, restraining their supervisor and fleeing the facility | 20:03 |
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| jperez26 | sounds like back stage at the peewee's playhouse set o.o | 20:04 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.google.com/search?q=%22at%2Bcops%3D%3F%22&btnG=Search&hl=en&safe=off&sa=2 - hmm - google fail | 20:04 |
| jperez26 | lol...i just checked the repo for "community" on my laptop and the page directory was empty... | 20:05 |
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| lcuk | heya konttori \o | 20:08 |
| konttori | lo! | 20:08 |
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| konttori | sup? | 20:08 |
| lcuk | just chillin no - opened a beer :) | 20:08 |
| flailingmonkey | N900: a great research project released to customers, great community, uninvolved or uninformed managers... | 20:09 |
| * lcuk slides one across | 20:09 | |
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| konttori | Funny. I just ran opera n900 on http://service.futuremark.com/peacekeeper/index.action versus microb. | 20:09 |
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| flailingmonkey | how did they compare | 20:09 |
| konttori | Interesting that on my 1 GHz device, Opera scored 341, and I actually took a short phone call during the benchmark. | 20:09 |
| lcuk | opera works quite well | 20:09 |
| xDaReaperx | yeah opera is quiet good | 20:10 |
| xDaReaperx | but it did crash for me | 20:10 |
| xDaReaperx | a lot of times | 20:10 |
| konttori | What makes it interesting is that IE 8 scores 800 on core 2 duo | 20:10 |
| lcuk | konttori, have you had any runaway processes with OC? | 20:10 |
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| flailingmonkey | i've had every browser crash at some point | 20:10 |
| konttori | OC? | 20:10 |
| flailingmonkey | overclock | 20:10 |
| lcuk | on your 1ghz device | 20:10 |
| konttori | oh. nope, no issues. | 20:11 |
| konttori | I usually run it @ 850 | 20:11 |
| konttori | But just for this benchmark purpose tested on 1 GHz | 20:11 |
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| flailingmonkey | i think people like 1ghz, because giga is sexy | 20:11 |
| lcuk | i like the sound of n900@900 personally but dont normally talk about oc :P | 20:12 |
| flailingmonkey | heheh | 20:12 |
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| konfoo | i had issues with OC | 20:12 |
| konfoo | but that was at 1ghz i think | 20:12 |
| jperez26 | the days of the 80386.../sigh | 20:12 |
| konfoo | video recorder recorded junk for audio | 20:13 |
| konfoo | 800 is my max now | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | jperez26: ah, but do you miss the turbo button? | 20:13 |
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| flailingmonkey | how far can you underclock n900 while keeping it usable | 20:14 |
| jperez26 | timeless_mbp: i don't think those days will ever die | 20:14 |
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| jperez26 | i say, bring back the old 386/486, dos, epic megagames, sb16 w/ opl2/3, megarace 1 and old packard bells | 20:17 |
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| andrewfblack | can N900 tether to another phone over Bluetooth for internet? | 20:20 |
| xDaReaperx | Joiku spot ^ | 20:20 |
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| andrewfblack | xDaReaperx: wrong way I want N900 to borrow Internet from other phone like I used to on N810 | 20:21 |
| xDaReaperx | hmm like if ur using gprs on another phone u want to transmit it over bluetooth and use it on your N900 ? | 20:22 |
| jperez26 | get a mifi device :p | 20:22 |
| flailingmonkey | depends on the other device | 20:22 |
| jperez26 | lord knows i want to | 20:22 |
| loufoque | use bluetooth tethering on the other device? | 20:23 |
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| satmd | bifi? | 20:23 |
| andrewfblack | jperez26: wont work for me, when at work only SouthernLinc phones work. I am wanting ot teather to my SouthernLinc to get n900 interent at work for atleast downloading my emails | 20:23 |
| loufoque | andrewfblack: there is a "bluetooth dial-up networking" application | 20:24 |
| jperez26 | huh, that sucks | 20:24 |
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| jperez26 | tifi...ter | 20:24 |
| andrewfblack | loufoque: Any idea of name, it was just built into N810 | 20:24 |
| * jperez26 is not so subtle | 20:25 | |
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| loufoque | anyone ever tried the zeemote joystick? | 20:27 |
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| flailingmonkey | hm | 20:34 |
| Shapeshifter | Is there an easy way to get xprop to the n900? | 20:34 |
| flailingmonkey | what is xprop | 20:35 |
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| N900lova | im baaack peeps | 20:36 |
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| flailingmonkey | yes you are | 20:36 |
| flailingmonkey | how many OS have been run on the N900 now | 20:37 |
| N900lova | so yous all jealous over iphone 4? | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | why would we be when we have our precious? | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:37 |
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| N900lova | right on! | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | Actually I'd kinda like to have the gyros ;) | 20:38 |
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| luke-jr | Stskeeps: telnet nat.router.dashjr.org 7777 | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: that better not be ascii porn | 20:39 |
| luke-jr | nope | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | ah, a MOO | 20:39 |
| luke-jr | cmon, yuo should know me better than that | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | true, redneck gnubie.. | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:39 |
| SpeedEvil | flailingmonkey: counding MSDOS? | 20:39 |
| * Stskeeps ducks | 20:39 | |
| N900lova | ascii porn???? da hell you talkin bout? | 20:40 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: you got d/c btw | 20:40 |
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| jacekowski | mplayer -vo aa pron.avi | 20:41 |
| jperez26 | hahaa, ascii porn...lol | 20:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I did? | 20:41 |
| SpeedEvil | umm - what? | 20:41 |
| jacekowski | hmm, arkadia? | 20:42 |
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| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: from MaeMOO | 20:42 |
| sx0n|home | openglpron: http://www.thenokian8.info/comparison-of-graphics-capabilities-nokia-n8-omnia-vs-hd-vs-iphone-3g-vs-apple-ipad.html | 20:42 |
| N900lova | screw n8....freaking pos | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | why the fuck are they testing on gles 1.1? | 20:43 |
| SpeedEvil | ah - no - I quit. | 20:43 |
| greenfly | when when people realize it's pointless to do a feature comparison between an apple product and competitors? | 20:43 |
| greenfly | apple has always been a bit behind on features, but that's not why people buy them | 20:43 |
| N900lova | freaking nokia | 20:44 |
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| greenfly | extra features are always painted as pointless and unimportant until they catch up and implement them later | 20:44 |
| N900lova | how come there aint cool apps on n900??? | 20:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | N900lova: how is xeyes not a cool app? | 20:46 |
| Dassu | because your cool in our terms is considered lame. | 20:46 |
| N900lova | xeyes widget yous mean???? yawn | 20:46 |
| N900lova | Dassu: yous an expert on coolness now? | 20:47 |
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| visz | feeding the troll now? | 20:48 |
| SpeedEvil | not worksafe - http://www.nickscipio.com/pod/2006/02/03/budweiser-frogs/ - alternative eyes widget idea? | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | i vote for hypnotoad widget | 20:48 |
| N900lova | visz: discuss like a man... dont be pussy and say flame | 20:48 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, :D | 20:48 |
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| Shapeshifter | I wonder where querty12 got his xprop from | 20:49 |
| N900lova | stupid xchat on n900....i click on link and nuthin happens....yous peeps havin problems???? | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: You can cheat. | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | wfm | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: ssh -X from the n900 to desktop | 20:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: run whatever there | 20:50 |
| Shapeshifter | mhhh | 20:50 |
| microlith | N900lova: nope, works fine for me | 20:50 |
| Shapeshifter | and that has an influence on local windows? | 20:50 |
| Shapeshifter | I didn't know | 20:50 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: yes. | 20:50 |
| N900lova | thanks peep | 20:50 |
| SpeedEvil | xrandr, xdpyinfo, ... | 20:50 |
| xDaReaperx | will Nokia Replace the whole device incase of a hardware problem within the warranty period for free ? | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | xDaReaperx: did you overclock it? | 20:51 |
| xDaReaperx | no | 20:51 |
| SpeedEvil | They will generally repair it, or try to. | 20:51 |
| Stskeeps | xDaReaperx: did you cause the problem yourself in any way? :P | 20:51 |
| flailingmonkey | lmao, thats what everyone keeps asking him | 20:51 |
| xDaReaperx | no i didn't , the front camera is not atall clear , its completly dark even in sunlight | 20:52 |
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| xDaReaperx | bought it a week back | 20:52 |
| xDaReaperx | or more i think | 20:52 |
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| N900lova | bring it back | 20:53 |
| SpeedEvil | xDaReaperx: Have you upgraded to pr1.2? | 20:54 |
| xDaReaperx | bring it back ? | 20:54 |
| xDaReaperx | yeah i'm on the latest firmware | 20:54 |
| luke-jr | have you upgraded to Gentoo? | 20:54 |
| N900lova | xDaReaperx: take it back man to where you got it | 20:54 |
| xDaReaperx | gentoo ? | 20:54 |
| flailingmonkey | rofl | 20:55 |
| flailingmonkey | gentoo, fun times compiling | 20:55 |
| xDaReaperx | i don't know what that is | 20:55 |
| xDaReaperx | i tested my front camera using Health check , Burgerface , burgerface can never detect my face | 20:56 |
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| jacekowski | hmmm | 20:57 |
| jacekowski | shit | 20:57 |
| jacekowski | Standby time: Up to 300 hours | 20:57 |
| jacekowski | on iphone hd | 20:57 |
| jacekowski | that's like 100x better | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | that is with how many lost calls? | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:57 |
| jacekowski | 14h talk time | 20:58 |
| jacekowski | 7h on 3g | 20:58 |
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| flailingmonkey | the front camera had some tuning in PR1.2 | 20:59 |
| SpeedEvil | I've had ~200 hours equivalent for short periods on the n900. | 20:59 |
| SpeedEvil | ~140 is 'easy' | 20:59 |
| infobot | SpeedEvil: okay | 20:59 |
| SpeedEvil | huh? | 20:59 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 20:59 |
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| SpeedEvil | ~forget 200 | 20:59 |
| infobot | i forgot 200, SpeedEvil | 20:59 |
| SpeedEvil | ~forget 140 | 20:59 |
| flailingmonkey | why is anyone taking any battery claim seriously? haven't you learned yet | 20:59 |
| infobot | SpeedEvil: i forgot 140 | 20:59 |
| xDaReaperx | failingmonkey: well yeah i've read about that in the updated in PR 1.2 | 20:59 |
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| flailingmonkey | i don't know if it would work much better in mirror, because I don't know how it accesses the camera | 21:01 |
| flailingmonkey | still, its a cheap front camera | 21:02 |
| xDaReaperx | my front camera shows an all greenish pic and dark when in bright light | 21:02 |
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| xDaReaperx | oh wait lol it is my fault, i've set my display brightness to 1 bar , now i use it on full bar , i can see my self in mirror | 21:03 |
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| flailingmonkey | I wonder why that helped | 21:06 |
| xDaReaperx | actually i couldnt see anything when my display brightness was low | 21:06 |
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| flailingmonkey | okay | 21:09 |
| flailingmonkey | so. xchat vs. irssi on N900? | 21:09 |
| * flailingmonkey votes for irssi | 21:10 | |
| microlith | xchat :> | 21:10 |
| xDaReaperx | xchat | 21:10 |
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| flailingmonkey | that scroll bar is so ugly | 21:10 |
| flailingmonkey | plus, the foxmask theme from irssi.org makes it work well with a white background | 21:11 |
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| xDaReaperx | n900 browser vote : firefox vs opera vs chromium | 21:15 |
| SpeedEvil | chrome is very slow for me | 21:15 |
| * b-man|laptop votes chromium < small elements on the screen, but it's fast ;) | 21:16 | |
| SpeedEvil | opera or ff. | 21:16 |
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| b-man|laptop | it's not for me | 21:16 |
| SpeedEvil | microb works better for me though | 21:16 |
| xDaReaperx | i like opera and ff | 21:16 |
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| * flailingmonkey votes firefox | 21:17 | |
| flailingmonkey | but i haven't tried opera | 21:17 |
| xDaReaperx | try it | 21:18 |
| N900lova | safari wipes the floor with all of em | 21:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Please go away. Or change your nick. | 21:18 |
| flailingmonkey | (desktop) safari is lame | 21:18 |
| N900lova | why change nick? i love N900 | 21:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | Unless you are aware of, and willin g to share a way to get safari tunning on n900. Which would be arguably cool. | 21:19 |
| flailingmonkey | he's just sucked into the apple hype machine :-p | 21:19 |
| N900lova | no... i dont have any apple products....jus sayin the truth | 21:19 |
| flailingmonkey | i will say, nokia did not put in anywhere near the amount of resources into Meamo as Apple has into "iOS" | 21:19 |
| * SpeedEvil compiles v4l-utils | 21:19 | |
| flailingmonkey | hm, how about webkit? see some sexy qt speed demon, using a bunch of libs already loaded into memory? :) | 21:21 |
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| xDaReaperx | did you guys get the bounce game installed by default when you bought the phone ? | 21:21 |
| jacekowski | no | 21:21 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 21:21 |
| SpeedEvil | but that was pr1 | 21:21 |
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| flailingmonkey | ya | 21:22 |
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| flailingmonkey | i think so anyway | 21:22 |
| jacekowski | that was 1st game i bought | 21:22 |
| flailingmonkey | lol, I got pr1 | 21:22 |
| jacekowski | "bought" | 21:22 |
| N900lova | can anybody give me ONE reason... ONE good reason... why open os is better than a closed one like apple??? no flames. one reason folks. | 21:22 |
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| N900lova | lets hear it | 21:22 |
| SpeedEvil | I can't compile v4l-utils on apple platform. | 21:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Works for me. | 21:22 |
| N900lova | thats for geeks | 21:22 |
| flailingmonkey | maintainability, expandibility, customization, developer friendly | 21:22 |
| vldcnst | Security. | 21:23 |
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| baraujo | N900lova, if you | 21:23 |
| frosty` | Trustworthiness | 21:23 |
| baraujo | if you're just a user, little difference | 21:23 |
| flailingmonkey | many problems with maemo come from a lack of complete openness | 21:23 |
| jacekowski | flailingmonkey: bullshit | 21:23 |
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| flailingmonkey | excuse me? | 21:23 |
| jacekowski | non open platforms work better | 21:24 |
| xDaReaperx | did anyone try : Speedometer Touch app ? | 21:24 |
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| N900lova | i want a polished os that works well.... screw openness... i aint got time to tweak.....gimme good os | 21:24 |
| jacekowski | N900lova: exactly | 21:24 |
| jacekowski | get iOS4 | 21:24 |
| flailingmonkey | work better is just about as vague as you can get | 21:24 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr: crazy thing | 21:25 |
| crashanddie | flailingmonkey: "working" and "better". Not very vague in my book. | 21:25 |
| * frals facepalms | 21:25 | |
| N900lova | no.... i dont want "community" os....fuck that. give me professional engineers | 21:25 |
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| flailingmonkey | rofl | 21:25 |
| frals | and why did you get the n900? just curious | 21:25 |
| crashanddie | N900lova: iOS4 isn't a community OS. | 21:26 |
| jacekowski | N900lova: well lot of us are proffesional engineers | 21:26 |
| baraujo | N900lova, as I said, if you want something that Just Works(c), go with a closed one, period | 21:26 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: not professional spellers, though. | 21:26 |
| greenfly | someone already mentioned something about not feeding trolls | 21:26 |
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| frals | ios 4? isnt ios something like 11? | 21:26 |
| crashanddie | frals: iOS4 = iPhone OS 4 | 21:26 |
| frals | 15 bloody hell | 21:26 |
| frals | oh | 21:26 |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: i still make less spelling mistakes than some native english people | 21:27 |
| crashanddie | frals: they've renamed it | 21:27 |
| frals | right.. still not stuck in my head | 21:27 |
| N900lova | frals: coz i love the n900... there was lots of promise from nokia...then bang: they said fuck you maemo, we're going with meego....apple never did that | 21:27 |
| frals | after doing CCNA, ios = Cisco router OS | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | N900lova: they did | 21:27 |
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| crashanddie | N900lova: please take your rants to #meego | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | N900lova: actually, didn't you see that the original iphone isn't supported by iOS 4? | 21:27 |
| crashanddie | thanks | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | frals: iOS is new name for iphoneos | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | N900lova: they just call it differently | 21:27 |
| jacekowski | N900lova: and don't break compatibility as much | 21:28 |
| N900lova | Stskeeps: fuck original iphone, the 3GS will be upgradable....apple didnt give the finger to their customers | 21:28 |
| flailingmonkey | N900lova, you should focus your ire where it is deserved | 21:28 |
| crashanddie | N900lova: last warning, take it to #meego | 21:28 |
| jacekowski | N900lova: and if you will fuck so many things | 21:29 |
| jacekowski | N900lova: you will get aids | 21:29 |
| frals | N900lova: here, have a finger. its free! | 21:29 |
| flailingmonkey | the maemo platform apps, frankly, are weak | 21:29 |
| xDaReaperx | wow lots of ppl talking to him , lol no one answerd my question | 21:29 |
| N900lova | apps that were developed for iphone years ago will work on iphone 4....none of this recompiling bullshit | 21:29 |
| flailingmonkey | the maemo os has a lot going for it | 21:29 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 21:29 | |
| * lcuk sighs | 21:30 | |
| frals | N900lova: apps developed years ago works on the n900 | 21:30 |
| crashanddie | N900lova: pretty please? | 21:30 |
| lcuk | N900lova, cool, i do the same | 21:30 |
| lcuk | i run my n8x0 apps on n900 | 21:30 |
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| N900lova | ok... i jus wanna have a discussion...no harm intended peeps | 21:30 |
| crashanddie | good | 21:30 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 21:30 | |
| flailingmonkey | if you want to tell me that the phone experience on iPhone kicks the crap out of Phone on N900, canmt argue with you | 21:30 |
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| lcuk | also N900lova apple dont always maintain full compatability | 21:31 |
| lcuk | nobody can | 21:31 |
| mece | yohoo maemites! | 21:31 |
| lcuk | \o | 21:31 |
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| flailingmonkey | but they do spend a lot more money on their platform app development | 21:32 |
| N900lova | lcuk: I know but im sayin apple lasts a little longer than freaking 5 months....just sayin | 21:32 |
| vldcnst | can we ban Idiscussions? | 21:32 |
| jacekowski | NO | 21:32 |
| vldcnst | iDiscussions* | 21:32 |
| N900lova | i bougjgt | 21:32 |
| lcuk | N900lova, and whats stopped working for you now? | 21:32 |
| jacekowski | N900lova: and in terms of compatibility - n900 is running linux | 21:32 |
| N900lova | i bought the N900 believing in all the maemo hoopla and now nokia said fuck you meego is our goal..... | 21:33 |
| jacekowski | N900lova: and it's really easy to port any linux app to it | 21:33 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 21:33 | |
| flailingmonkey | its Apple's major product. Maemo was/is a tiny element of Nokia's strategy in comparison | 21:33 |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: +q N900lova!*@* | 21:33 | |
| jacekowski | crashanddie: unquiet hum | 21:33 |
| jacekowski | him* | 21:33 |
| crashanddie | N900lova: I gave you enough warnings, you've been repeating the same stuff 10 times. Take it to #meego. Thanks | 21:33 |
| crashanddie | jacekowski: no | 21:33 |
| crashanddie | 5 minutes timeout. | 21:33 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 21:33 | |
| lcuk | crashanddie, meego wont help | 21:34 |
| jacekowski | i'm in a mood to convince him that he's wrong | 21:34 |
| lcuk | N900lova, whats broke on your phone | 21:34 |
| jacekowski | lcuk: he can't speak now | 21:34 |
| flailingmonkey | it isn't a feature, if I understand it | 21:34 |
| frosty` | does anyone use pivotal tracker? | 21:34 |
| flailingmonkey | it is two things | 21:34 |
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| flailingmonkey | one is polish, of all the apps, etc | 21:35 |
| flailingmonkey | the other is commitment | 21:35 |
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| flailingmonkey | maemo.org people shouldn't be a conduit between community and nokia. nokia's managers and decision makers (related to the N900 product) need to be involved directly | 21:36 |
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| vldcnst | N900lova: I highly recommend you the xchat command /cycle | 21:36 |
| Appiah | oh | 21:37 |
| Appiah | n900lover is back... | 21:37 |
| flailingmonkey | annoucements are appreciated, but direct involvement means more than that | 21:37 |
| Appiah | bitchin about meego support >_> | 21:37 |
| flailingmonkey | s/annoucements/announcements | 21:37 |
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| flailingmonkey | some people want offical customer support from Nokia Care for meego on N900 | 21:38 |
| vldcnst | oh, it's a +q not a +b. My mistake. | 21:38 |
| flailingmonkey | I'm not one of those people | 21:39 |
| flailingmonkey | yeah | 21:39 |
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| Stskeeps | flailingmonkey: are we speaking software or hardware? | 21:39 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 21:40 | |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -q N900lova!*@* | 21:40 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 21:40 | |
| flailingmonkey | good question. would they not honor hardware problems if you were running meego instead of maemo? | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | and speaking of decision makers not being around, who says they're not? | 21:40 |
| N900lova | hey | 21:40 |
| xDaReaperx | hi | 21:40 |
| N900lova | why ban me????? | 21:40 |
| xDaReaperx | he quiet you not ban | 21:40 |
| crashanddie | N900lova: I warned you to change the subject, to stop saying the same stuff | 21:40 |
| xDaReaperx | like silenced you | 21:40 |
| flailingmonkey | the frequent message is that "i wish I could help, but I don't control that" | 21:40 |
| lcuk | N900lova, ill ask, whats wrong with your maemo device now and what do you see needs to be done | 21:41 |
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| N900lova | you call this openness ??? banning people that ask legitimate questions??? | 21:41 |
| crashanddie | N900lova: you didn't, so I banned you from talking. Please try to be constructive. | 21:41 |
| N900lova | ok | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | flailingmonkey: that's actually a very hot topic regarding warranty. some claim even using 'flasher-3.5' causes warranty breach, some claim bad kernels does .. | 21:41 |
| N900lova | sorry | 21:41 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: well, according to eu law it can't breach warranty | 21:41 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: not hardware warranty anyways | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | jacekowski: finally something sane in eu law :P | 21:42 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: there was huge case about sim locks | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | jacekowski: got some sources? kinda interested | 21:42 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: and manufacturer has to prove that it was software mod that caused hardware damage | 21:42 |
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| jacekowski | so if you modify software you void only part of warranty | 21:42 |
| flailingmonkey | exactly, and it needs to be addressed. i wish there was someone who could actually represent Nokians in what policy issues/questions are under discussion | 21:42 |
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| lcuk | flailingmonkey, talk, discuss, listen | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | flailingmonkey: you're welcome to come and ask on the next N900 hardware adaptation meeting. we might not have the answers, though, but we might know who to ask. | 21:43 |
| lcuk | if theres something you see you can help, enquire about it | 21:43 |
| flailingmonkey | i've been keeping up on meeting logs :-p | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | flailingmonkey: the meego on n900 people are quite out in the open (including myself), so | 21:44 |
| lcuk | why not take part | 21:44 |
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| flailingmonkey | indeed, and I can read between the lines wrt meego on N900. not everyone can though | 21:45 |
| N900lova | Stskeeps: u work for nokia? | 21:45 |
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| Stskeeps | N900lova: no, i'm a maemo.org guy. meego allows people like us to engage directly in the project | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:46 |
| flailingmonkey | i hadn't gotten an IRC app set up yet | 21:46 |
| * lcuk looks sideways | 21:47 | |
| flailingmonkey | Stskeeps, are you more interested in pure MeeGo platform on N900, or Harmattan-community | 21:47 |
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| Stskeeps | flailingmonkey: a bit of both. pure meego is the long term but it's obviously not much fun without nokia bits, so that needs to come in eventually | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | harmattan is the short term solution | 21:50 |
| flailingmonkey | i wasn't involved in the community back in the N8x0 days, but it seems that the circumstances for Harmattan-community is much better than in the Mer/Fremantle for N8xP days | 21:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 21:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | so if a bug is fixed | 21:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | and assuming there's 1.3 | 21:51 |
| Stskeeps | flailingmonkey: it is, like, the processor is the same :P | 21:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | how are the packages released | 21:51 |
| N900lova | whats the coolest app right now in ovi store for maemo? | 21:51 |
| flailingmonkey | indeed | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | N900lova: angry birds, naturally ;p | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG51: hmm? SSU? | 21:52 |
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| MohammadAG51 | Stskeeps, as separate packages? I kinda doubt it | 21:52 |
| N900lova | Stskeeps: outside of games thou | 21:52 |
| * Stskeeps doesn't really use ovi store | 21:52 | |
| * MohammadAG51 uses apt to download from the ovi store | 21:53 | |
| flailingmonkey | have to agree with you again N900lova, assuming your point is that the OVI store project is pretty much stalled compared to Apple's App Store | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG51: typically if it's OSS, it's very early on maemo.gitorious.org | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG51: what are we speaking about specifically? F or H? | 21:53 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: http://www.iphonealley.com/news/do-iphone-hacks-void-your-warranty | 21:53 |
| flailingmonkey | I don't even know who is supposed to be developing that thing | 21:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | Stskeeps, F/H? | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG51: fremantle or harmattan | 21:53 |
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| MohammadAG51 | fremantle | 21:54 |
| Aakash | Yooo | 21:54 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: i saw a court ruling somewhere as well | 21:54 |
| Aakash | How goes | 21:54 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: hmm, that's not the one | 21:54 |
| MohammadAG51 | Stskeeps, it's mce so... | 21:54 |
| Aakash | I sold my N900 in Jan and was wanting another device like the n900 | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG51: traditionally things are released in bundles | 21:55 |
| flailingmonkey | (what is mce again)? | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | Stskeeps, I know | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | flailingmonkey: nothing much can be said about harmattan before alpha or beta sdk is out | 21:55 |
| Aakash | Should i just buy the N900 or wait till the next device comes out | 21:55 |
| jacekowski | Stskeeps: but EFF was dealing with as well | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | i doubt there will be a bundle | 21:55 |
| Aakash | whatever that maybe | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | mode control engine | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | i think | 21:55 |
| flailingmonkey | Stskeeps, sorry I meant I don't know who is developing OVI store | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | or entry | 21:55 |
| MohammadAG51 | Nokia | 21:55 |
| mece | Aakash, why did you sell your N900? | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | so Stskeeps, assuming there's no bundle | 21:57 |
| MohammadAG51 | how would it get updated? | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG51: are we speaking community SSU? | 21:58 |
| Aakash | mece: Eh Nexus One came out, and maemo didn't meet my needs | 21:58 |
| Aakash | so swtiched for a big | 21:58 |
| Aakash | bit* | 21:58 |
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| Stskeeps | MohammadAG51: like, after nokia has given up on n900 | 21:58 |
| MohammadAG51 | Stskeeps, no, Nokia SSU | 21:58 |
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| benno2 | question: not having a N900 here right now. is the Ovi Store getting populated slowly (each day new apps) or has it only a few apps ? | 21:58 |
| Aakash | lol the first part of the question only has one answer | 21:59 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG51, SSU and flash is general now for maemo | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG51: so, if you want a straight answer, nothing stops us from getting an early deb out of something under a license not unlike the one at http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php , there's a bit of a problem with that organisationally though | 21:59 |
| Aakash | That reminds me | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | ie, you can't go from a stable SSU to a 'unstable SSU' and back | 22:00 |
| Aakash | Is maemo open source? | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | no, it's 43% or so | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | if you want higher percentages, look at meego | 22:00 |
| Aakash | Ah | 22:00 |
| Aakash | Hmm | 22:00 |
| Aakash | Is Meego going to be official released for the N900? | 22:00 |
| torchie | does maemo have any good graphical text editors? | 22:00 |
| lcuk | 43% of entire OS | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | Aakash: if you mean by the meego project and not nokia, then yes | 22:00 |
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| lcuk | but of system components and application frameworks its quite open | 22:00 |
| Stskeeps | Aakash: but no calling nokia care about it | 22:01 |
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| Aakash | hm cool stuff | 22:01 |
| Aakash | i hear some okay thinks about meego | 22:01 |
| lcuk | which closed components from maemo do you hope are open in meego Stskeeps | 22:01 |
| lcuk | or that you have noticed a difference with so far | 22:01 |
| Aakash | Hmm lcuk you seem familar | 22:02 |
| Aakash | Osnap | 22:02 |
| Aakash | I'm following you on twitter | 22:02 |
| Aakash | haha | 22:02 |
| * lcuk nods and waves \o | 22:02 | |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: phone stack's opening up | 22:02 |
| sECuRE | i’d like the phonebook to be open | 22:02 |
| * MohammadAG51 waves back | 22:02 | |
| lcuk | but maemo existed a long time without that | 22:02 |
| sECuRE | so we could finally have groups | 22:02 |
| sECuRE | (for example) | 22:02 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: basically i think most things are scrapped in meego, in terms of apps, no maemo gtk there | 22:03 |
| lcuk | what are you actually missing towards meego | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | so it's more about what are you missing | 22:03 |
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| lcuk | well maemo gtk is open | 22:03 |
| lcuk | so its just switching it for something else | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | yes, and difficult to forward port to a sane thing | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | brb | 22:03 |
| lcuk | difficult anyway | 22:03 |
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| flailingmonkey | any news on gtk support in meego? | 22:04 |
| lcuk | i dunno | 22:04 |
| * RST38h cackles on his wisdom of not attaching himself to any UI toolkit | 22:04 | |
| lcuk | you made your own :p | 22:04 |
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| lcuk | or rather let other system builders make theirs | 22:04 |
| mece | flailingmonkey, it's there, no hildon 's what I hear. | 22:05 |
| flailingmonkey | it was set to be "community supported" framework or something, but I haven't heard about gtk stuff running in meego | 22:05 |
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| flailingmonkey | ah, are the hildon thing open? wondering what would be necessary to have most hildon stuff run in meego | 22:06 |
| lcuk | yes hildon is open source | 22:06 |
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| Stskeeps | flailingmonkey: there's some money gone towards gnome foundation in regards to maemo gtk | 22:06 |
| flailingmonkey | damn, too many of my questions should really go to #meego :-p | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | not sure what it's being used for | 22:06 |
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| jperez26 | heres a quick question for the meego devs | 22:08 |
| lcuk | hurray, i press a button on desktop and receive bacon errrr a report | 22:08 |
| jperez26 | can the atom-based image work under a vm? | 22:09 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: You could do a widget that orders bacon. | 22:09 |
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| lcuk | indeed i could SpeedEvil | 22:09 |
| lcuk | but not today i have appt at dentists tomorrow | 22:09 |
| Aakash | hm | 22:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Bacon shake. | 22:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | The smoothie that keeps giving. | 22:10 |
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| lcuk | sounds interesting | 22:10 |
| SpeedEvil | oats, bacon, a couple of banannas. | 22:10 |
| frosty` | SpeedEvil: for real? | 22:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Probably not. | 22:11 |
| lcuk | mmmmmmmm | 22:11 |
| lcuk | but you can keep the oats and bananas | 22:11 |
| Aakash | err | 22:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm pretty sure you could make a quite edible one. | 22:11 |
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| Aakash | is this 5x6 page all the apps in ovi store for n900? lol | 22:11 |
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| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p9b5uAHzpc | 22:11 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: I posted that before I think. :) | 22:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | alterego, ping | 22:12 |
| flailingmonkey | for meego questions, check out #meego | 22:12 |
| lcuk | 2 new series announced \o/ | 22:12 |
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| Aakash | someone should make live backgrounds for the n900 | 22:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: REally? | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Aakash: they have. | 22:13 |
| Aakash | orly | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/xsnow/ | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | gah, can apt-get do something along the lines of "force A to install before B" | 22:13 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 22:13 |
| SpeedEvil | you do regrettably need to start it once for each desktop | 22:13 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, http://twitter.com/TORDFC | 22:14 |
| * lcuk has cat and kryten on twitter so sees things | 22:14 | |
| SpeedEvil | Awesome. | 22:14 |
| Aakash | osnap | 22:14 |
| Aakash | 1.2 has some cool stuff it in | 22:14 |
| Aakash | i might buy the n900 again | 22:14 |
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| Aakash | is there a fulll changelog somehwere/ | 22:15 |
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| flailingmonkey | i think on the wiki | 22:17 |
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| lcuk | pr1.2 is good in that we stabilised a lot of items | 22:17 |
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| simoneb_ | there are 3 "announces" of applications on the forums, just today | 22:18 |
| simoneb_ | that's a lot ... however very few of them seem to make their steps in the repos | 22:19 |
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| lcuk | well simoneb_ with 1.2 we enabled qt 4.6 direct on the image and its now feasible to happily use a stable qt | 22:19 |
| pnoman | Anyone been able to get smartreflex working on PR1.2? "cd /sys/power; echo 1 > sr_vdd2_autocomp; cat sr_vdd2_autocomp" returns 0 and not 1 as expected, plus there is an error "VDD2 smartreflex is broken" in dmesg... | 22:19 |
| lcuk | we need some help in bringing apps through i agree simoneb_ | 22:19 |
| simoneb_ | errr, my fault, but i still don't get why qt is so much better than gtk :D | 22:20 |
| lcuk | pnoman, theres a bug about smart reflex stating it wasnt supported | 22:20 |
| lcuk | or something | 22:20 |
| pnoman | lcuk, right, so no hopes for now until a kernel update? | 22:20 |
| lcuk | simoneb_, for some people the ide and testing on windows and other desktops before bringing over is a powerful grab | 22:20 |
| flailingmonkey | they tried to get it to work, but (possibly?) hardware variations made it unstable | 22:20 |
| lcuk | for others learning about linux and intricate cross compiling are a pull | 22:21 |
| flailingmonkey | it worked for some, crashed occasionally for many | 22:21 |
| lcuk | pnoman, do some searches for it and see, i dont really know other than a vague memory of a report | 22:21 |
| flailingmonkey | there is a bug in bugzilla about it | 22:21 |
| lcuk | flailingmonkey, can you find the # | 22:22 |
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| pnoman | lcuk, there is mention of it here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=679135 and a reference to "Fixes: NB#160765 - remove sysfs interface that allows user to enable Smartleflex" but I don't know what that fix refers to... cannot find it anyway. Any ideas (have already searched quite a lot for this). | 22:23 |
| pnoman | lcuk, I mean -- sysfs is the interface that should provide this, so removing sysfs wouldn't help, right? | 22:24 |
| flailingmonkey | bug # 7633 | 22:25 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7633 Enable SmartReflex on N900 by default | 22:25 |
| lcuk | pnoman, if you remove the sysfs is removed then it canot be triggered by app and hence problem solved one would assume | 22:25 |
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| flailingmonkey | comment #35 of that bug indicates Nokia wasn't able to get it working in fremantle | 22:27 |
| pnoman | lcuk, not sure I understand fully -- are you saying that removing sysfs removes all of the fiddling with smartreflex, and as it may be on by default, it cannot be switched off... or something? In any case, I assume I cannot test whether it is indeed on or off then ;-) | 22:27 |
| ds3 | 9 | 22:27 |
| flailingmonkey | it's off. | 22:27 |
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| flailingmonkey | perhaps they removed the smartreflex code too | 22:28 |
| flailingmonkey | (might have been messy stuff?) | 22:28 |
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| pnoman | povbot, I guess what it says in that bug report is that Nokia don't want to enable it by default given some N900 will have problems with it. But the weird thing is that VDD1 can be switched on and off still, only VDD2 has problems. Looks more like a bug than something intentional? | 22:29 |
| povbot | pnoman: Error: "I" is not a valid command. | 22:29 |
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| pnoman | povbot, Sorry, typo -- should be 1 (one) :-) | 22:30 |
| povbot | pnoman: Error: "Sorry," is not a valid command. | 22:30 |
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| jacekowski | pnoman: he's a bot | 22:31 |
| pnoman | flailingmonkey, you may be right -- it could have been intentional. But still puzzling that only VDD2 interface is defunct (but still partly there) and VDD1 one seems to work well... | 22:31 |
| vldcnst | I lol'ed. | 22:32 |
| pnoman | jacekowski, I just realized that ... thanks for pointing it out (said while removing eggs from my face ;-) | 22:32 |
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| MohammadAG51 | o/ RevdKathy | 22:33 |
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| pnoman | feels a bit like the old "$ make love not war" which would return "love not found" ;-) | 22:33 |
| frals | o/ RevdKathy | 22:33 |
| RevdKathy | Yo all! | 22:33 |
| flailingmonkey | hii! | 22:33 |
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| pnoman | vlncnst, you mean 1 lol'ed ... possibly | 22:34 |
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| mece | Stskeeps, I think it goes in the order that they are listed in the control file. | 22:35 |
| mece | oops. ok that was an hour ago.. | 22:35 |
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| mece | didn't scroll :P | 22:35 |
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| MohammadAG51 | infobot, seen noobmonk3y | 22:36 |
| infobot | noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@host86-176-110-73.range86-176.btcentralplus.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 12h 1m 54s ago, saying: 'lols!!!'. | 22:36 |
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| mece | infobot, tell me about your mother | 22:37 |
| vldcnst | infobot, version | 22:37 |
| infobot | version is probably Kernel: uname -r. Debian: cat /etc/debian_version. and: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -1. Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_. Miscellaneous: try --version on the command. check /etc/apt/sources.list; run apt-cache policy <packagename>, or lsb_release -d | 22:37 |
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| mece | meh.. no freud jokes I see. | 22:37 |
| mece | lol | 22:38 |
| mece | "(10:40:20 PM) infobot: telling yourself: Mrs. Apt is well, thank you." | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG51 | infobot, shoot mece | 22:38 |
| * infobot shoots mece in the foot with a phase pistol! | 22:38 | |
| RevdKathy | why can't I d/l from devel or testing after a flash??? Pretty please | 22:39 |
| RevdKathy | Yes, I really did. me! I did a flash! | 22:40 |
| * RevdKathy feels very proud | 22:40 | |
| frals | did you readd devel and testing? :) | 22:40 |
| RevdKathy | what should I have read? are they unavailable for pr1.2? | 22:41 |
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| MohammadAG51 | re-add, not read :) | 22:42 |
| RevdKathy | I'm only a bear of very little brain. I've lost al of two apps, but one I was relying on. | 22:42 |
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| RevdKathy | I have tried to re-enable - does it need to be different? It is saying they are unavailable at the address | 22:43 |
| MohammadAG51 | hmm | 22:44 |
| RevdKathy | 404 not found. Is the address diferent since I last went there? | 22:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel | 22:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | nope | 22:44 |
| * RevdKathy doesn't go to devel or testing very often! | 22:44 | |
| MohammadAG51 | maemo.org was down though | 22:44 |
| MohammadAG51 | 24h ago | 22:45 |
| RevdKathy | hmmm... the addy I have is a lot longer than that | 22:45 |
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| lcuk | RevdKathy, you generally survived? | 22:46 |
| Duckboot | Evening folks | 22:46 |
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| RevdKathy | I generally survived | 22:47 |
| GAN900 | Hey, Kathy. | 22:47 |
| RevdKathy | lcuck - I can't test the 2 things that drove me to it ronight, but we seem alive | 22:47 |
| RevdKathy | Hi GAN900 - been composing a reply to your rant about meamo engagement | 22:47 |
| GAN900 | RevdKathy, my rant where? | 22:48 |
| MohammadAG51 | no, it's the after life | 22:48 |
| Duckboot | I do remember something about choosing distro to be fremantle-1.2 - Not fremantle | 22:48 |
| MohammadAG51 | see? it's the same as the old one | 22:48 |
| * GAN900 is losing track of them these days. *g* | 22:48 | |
| MohammadAG51 | Duckboot, no, not -devel at least | 22:48 |
| RevdKathy | On tmo - about people not being at the meeting the other week | 22:48 |
| GAN900 | Oh, that one | 22:48 |
| GAN900 | That was a weak one. :D | 22:48 |
| Duckboot | MohammadAG51: Kk - Was just something I vaguely remembered. | 22:49 |
| RevdKathy | GAN900 yes - hence I was debating replying. The strong ones leave me too scared! (or is that scarred) | 22:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | Duckboot, that's for extras :) | 22:49 |
| GAN900 | I know what the problem is | 22:49 |
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| Duckboot | MohammadAG51: Kk | 22:49 |
| GAN900 | Nokia's pretty much killed off any reason to invest effort into Maemo. | 22:49 |
| Duckboot | Anyone have something that needs testing tonite - I'm well up for it. | 22:50 |
| MohammadAG51 | GAN900, err, what about the community | 22:50 |
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| MohammadAG51 | i won't be leaving maemo | 22:50 |
| GAN900 | MohammadAG51, Maemo the platform, Maemo the community, maemo.org | 22:50 |
| Mece_ | GAN900, are they gonna remote kill the N900's? | 22:50 |
| GAN900 | Whatever | 22:50 |
| GAN900 | There's not much enthusiasm left | 22:51 |
| Duckboot | GAN900: There is interest - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55531 | 22:51 |
| Duckboot | GAN900: We just gotta rethink our way of doing things | 22:51 |
| GAN900 | and trolling and negativity are filling the vacuum. | 22:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | GAN900, well, MeeGo should fix that | 22:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | (the trolling) | 22:51 |
| MohammadAG51 | they'd move to meego.com | 22:52 |
| RevdKathy | My point is that my enthusiasm was mostly squashed by the trolling and negativity - chicken and egg stuff | 22:52 |
| Duckboot | There will always be trolling | 22:52 |
| jcrawford | GAN900, you are sooo negative can;t believe you are still on a roll from last night lol | 22:52 |
| GAN900 | RevdKathy, indeed. | 22:52 |
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| MohammadAG51 | most trolls/end users will upgrade too meego | 22:53 |
| lcuk | did apple add more buttons onto the iphone this time round? | 22:53 |
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| MohammadAG51 | they'll move their bi***ing threads somewhere else | 22:53 |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, no, they just added a flash and a higher res screen | 22:53 |
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| GAN900 | jcrawford, not real enthused about having to put maemo.org to bed while still needing to provide support to Maemo | 22:54 |
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| RevdKathy | oops! | 22:54 |
| MohammadAG51 | thought that was a rage quit | 22:54 |
| GAN900 | and getting started from the mailroom in MeeGo is way too much work. | 22:54 |
| MohammadAG51 | :P | 22:54 |
| RevdKathy | What I was saying (before I hit the wrong button) is that I find meego too formal and businesslike to feel quite at home | 22:54 |
| GAN900 | And the "We're open! (but not really)" thing wears thin | 22:55 |
| RevdKathy | and the negativity and trolling has made tmo somewhere I don't really feel comfortable either | 22:55 |
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| * GAN900 left LFCS exhausted rather than supercharged like BCN. | 22:55 | |
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| RevdKathy | To me it still feels like "We're open, and we want the community, but only the ones we choose" | 22:55 |
| lcuk | bcn was good :) | 22:55 |
| GAN900 | Indeed it was | 22:56 |
| lcuk | i was talking a bit with bilboed today reminded me of the sunshine | 22:56 |
| GAN900 | Now most of that energy has fizzled. | 22:56 |
| GAN900 | RevdKathy, it's not maemo.org. :( | 22:56 |
| Duckboot | RevdKathy: That's whtried to start something today - Community Driven Appstore - To encourage the devs of the community. | 22:56 |
| Duckboot | s/whtried/what I tried | 22:57 |
| Duckboot | Came out alle wrong that one | 22:57 |
| Duckboot | Bah | 22:57 |
| Duckboot | My spelling is out of control. | 22:57 |
| RevdKathy | I gotcha - I can read 'myfnigerscabbled' quite well! I suffer myself occasionally | 22:57 |
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| Duckboot | ;-P | 22:58 |
| RevdKathy | ok, clever peeps: http://www.flickr.com/photos/45336204@N08/4683251156/ | 22:58 |
| * RevdKathy still remembers how to screencap | 22:58 | |
| Duckboot | RevdKathy: Your distro is set to fremantle-1.2? | 22:59 |
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| RevdKathy | that's what it says, no? | 23:00 |
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| RevdKathy | That's how I read it. I haven't touched the catalogues other to enable/disable for odd apps since GAN900 put them there in Bcn! | 23:01 |
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| flailingmonkey | it looks like the people in #meego basically talk about the same thing as #maemo: N900. our lady of hardware | 23:01 |
| Mece_ | aaahah scifi convention episode on one of the csi series I don't watch. | 23:02 |
| flailingmonkey | (besides the few netbook questions) | 23:02 |
| flailingmonkey | :-p | 23:02 |
| pnoman | RevdKathy, on your extras-devel problem: What did you set your distribution to? the extras has freemantle-1.2 -- not sure what it should be for extras-devel (didn't test it here), but just realized this while looking for something else | 23:02 |
| flailingmonkey | i think thats csi:miami | 23:02 |
| lcuk | flailingmonkey, lol | 23:02 |
| Duckboot | RevdKathy: remove the -1.2 part in catalogues | 23:02 |
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| tuliobaars | hey | 23:03 |
| Mece_ | flailingmonkey, :) | 23:03 |
| lcuk | time for me to vanish anyways :) | 23:03 |
| lcuk | kinda like turning off irc occasionally nowadays :) | 23:03 |
| tuliobaars | how about Fremantle HE for N8x0? | 23:03 |
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| lcuk | mer 0.17 was closest and was starting to look viable | 23:03 |
| tuliobaars | like the OS2007 and 2008 HE for 770? | 23:03 |
| tuliobaars | but when is it goin' to be officilay released? | 23:04 |
| RevdKathy2 | what happened? I fell off IRC | 23:04 |
| lcuk | there was a lot of energy poured into that project | 23:04 |
| tuliobaars | (Mer) | 23:04 |
| Mece_ | wait, so there should be a david caruso here? | 23:04 |
| MohammadAG51 | lcuk, install Ubuntu | 23:04 |
| lcuk | then stskeeps moved onto meego | 23:04 |
| Duckboot | RevdKathy: remove the -1.2 part in catalogues | 23:04 |
| tuliobaars | Ubuntu, i coundn't installit in the internal 2GB n810 sd card? | 23:04 |
| pnoman | RevdKathy, (in case you didn't get this): on your extras-devel problem: What did you set your distribution to? the extras has freemantle-1.2 -- not sure what it should be for extras-devel (didn't test it here), but just realized this while looking for something else. Maybe it should indeed be without the -1.2 | 23:04 |
| Duckboot | \o/ | 23:04 |
| RevdKathy2 | How do I edit the catalogogue? | 23:05 |
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| Duckboot | RevdKathy: Same place as you enable/disable them | 23:05 |
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| pnoman | RevdKathy2, program manager and the menu | 23:05 |
| tuliobaars | is mer goin to continue? | 23:05 |
| lcuk | it should | 23:06 |
| red | arf | 23:06 |
| tuliobaars | mmm, when? | 23:06 |
| red | rotten fbreader on my laptop | 23:06 |
| red | resets settings each time i reopen it | 23:06 |
| tuliobaars | maybe 3 years? | 23:06 |
| tuliobaars | \o/ | 23:06 |
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| lcuk | gnite #maemo \o | 23:07 |
| RevdKathy2 | the catalogue is listed just as with the web address - how do I edit all the extra stuff? | 23:07 |
| korhojoa | good night, lcuk | 23:07 |
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| pnoman | RevdKathy2, you're in the program manager and sees all the catalogues? Did you touch the menu at the bottom to list them? | 23:08 |
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| pnoman | RevdKathy2, then just click the catalogue (like maemo.org)... | 23:09 |
| pnoman | RevdKathy2, the 3rd field is then the distribution, which is either freemantle or freemantle-1.2 or something? | 23:09 |
| crashanddie | hey RevdKathy2 | 23:09 |
| RevdKathy2 | Hey crashanddie | 23:10 |
| RevdKathy2 | Hmmm - I didn't have anything at all in the 'distribution' field | 23:10 |
| RevdKathy2 | ythat seems to have fixed it | 23:10 |
| RevdKathy2 | not to go and find my sheep | 23:10 |
| RevdKathy2 | (and more importantly for work, my Bible) | 23:10 |
| RevdKathy2 | If they enble now | 23:11 |
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| pnoman | RevdKathy2, cool :-) Hopefully it would be better then! Which bible is it you're using? | 23:11 |
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| RevdKathy2 | I had rapier | 23:11 |
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| RevdKathy2 | pnoman but if I can find katana, I'll try that this time | 23:11 |
| RevdKathy2 | Hmm still not finding the apps I need | 23:12 |
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| tybollt | o/ | 23:13 |
| tybollt | o/ | 23:13 |
| Aakash | anyone have a screenshot of the 1.2 keyboard | 23:13 |
| pnoman | RevdKathy2, wasn't aware of rapier (have only been using N900 for a short time). Will need another language, but as rapier uses sword, I think I would have that elsewhere :-) Thanks for the hint. | 23:13 |
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| RevdKathy2 | rapier is sword for maemo - katana is a version optimised for n900 | 23:14 |
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| pnoman | RevdKathy2, if you're not finding the apps -- check both freemantle and freemantle-1.2 for distribution. I'll have to jump to a telecall now, but check also that the web address is right! | 23:14 |
| Mece_ | hey are these bible apps locked to that book, or could they be used for other stuff too? | 23:15 |
| * microlith leverages easydebian and loads xmms2 | 23:15 | |
| RevdKathy2 | Thanks! and thanks for the help :) | 23:15 |
| pnoman | Likewise, and good luck! :-) | 23:15 |
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| Mece_ | note that it's fremantle, not freemantle. | 23:15 |
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| pnoman | RevdKathy2, Just checked before jumping out. It definitely has to be freemantle and not freemantle-1.2. You can check here under dists if you want: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ | 23:18 |
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| flailingmonkey | s/freemantle/fremantle | 23:18 |
| pnoman | Thanks :-) | 23:19 |
| pnoman | Katana is here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/k/katana/ so that is in the repos | 23:19 |
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| RevdKathy2 | pnoman Thanks! I'll keep fiddling till it works! | 23:19 |
| pnoman | RevdKathy2, rapier is too: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/r/rapier/ | 23:19 |
| pnoman | And now ooo :-) Good luck! | 23:20 |
| RevdKathy2 | :-) | 23:20 |
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| pocketcoffe | :):):):):):) ©º°¨¨°º©©º°¨¨°º© CiaoOoOo A TuTTo il ChaN!!!!!!!! ©º°¨¨°º©©º°¨¨°º© (:(:(:(: | 23:20 |
| pocketcoffe | :):):):):):) ©º°¨¨°º©©º°¨¨°º© Mo So Qua e nOn Me sKiodO piU'!! ©º°¨¨°º©©º°¨¨°º© (:(:(:(: | 23:20 |
| pocketcoffe | sera a tutti | 23:20 |
| pocketcoffe | va sucaaaaaaaa | 23:20 |
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| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer51, ban that pos | 23:23 |
| RevdKathy2 | THAT'S better - now I have loads and loads o extra stuff appears when I enable testing and devel :D | 23:23 |
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| MohammadAG51 | * pocketcoffe (~pocketcof@89.148.146.34) has joined #maemo | 23:23 |
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| RST38h | Any theme people around? | 23:23 |
| MohammadAG51 | wazd? | 23:24 |
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| flailingmonkey | these repository listings are huge, 1MB+ | 23:27 |
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| N900lova | what's a decent dark/black theme? | 23:28 |
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| MohammadAG51 | DocScrutinizer, ty | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | useless | 23:35 |
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| RevdKathy2 | Silly machine: if I've lost one Bible app and installed another, I EXPECT you to be able to recognise that it's a replacement and put it on the right homescreen? Don't you know a Bible when you see one? | 23:36 |
| * RevdKathy2 is actually rather impressed that katana picked up the sword modules I already had there for rapiee! | 23:37 | |
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| RevdKathy2 | Tomorrow I will test the things that were so grumpy they made me reflash | 23:37 |
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| RevdKathy2 | Thanks for all the holp folks!!! Goodnight | 23:38 |
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| ryoohki | any plans for an app store for maemo? | 23:39 |
| microlith | wow | 23:40 |
| microlith | xmms2 is not what I remember it to be | 23:40 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: @move me to #259 | 23:40 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I'm here | 23:46 |
| RST38h | wazd: moo there | 23:46 |
| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDLK6dopfuc&NR=1 "should we give away your baby brother?" (cruel, hilarious) | 23:46 |
| wazd | RST38h: heya :) | 23:46 |
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| pupnik | "baby wants to stay with us" | 23:46 |
| pupnik | and her expression like "dad, you *idiot*" | 23:47 |
| RST38h | wazd: Do you know which part of the template is responsible for the text color in the entry fields? | 23:47 |
| pupnik | and the baby is making a face like "hnjaaaaAARRR!" | 23:47 |
| Duckboot | ryoohki: Well - We'll see in a few days or so, if the trolls don't get to us. | 23:47 |
| wazd | RST38h: ermmm. Well, last time I wanted to know what color does what - I just painted all of them in different colors and checked screenshots afterwards :) | 23:48 |
| wazd | wait a sec | 23:48 |
| RST38h | mhmmm | 23:48 |
| mece | damn creating a simple maemo menu is really complicated in qt :@ | 23:49 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I guess it's reversed text color | 23:53 |
| wazd | RST38h: 6th from the top | 23:53 |
| RST38h | aha | 23:53 |
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| ryoohki | Duckboot: is there a link about this somewhere? | 23:54 |
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| ryoohki | Duckboot: i bought a used g1 and flashed it to the latest rom and so far maemo is superior except for a lack of an app store. | 23:55 |
| dotblank | usb host mode? | 23:55 |
| dotblank | WHA!!! | 23:55 |
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| ryoohki | Duckboot: it was especially difficult to flash the g1 | 23:55 |
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| RST38h | battery dying | 23:56 |
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| mece | you know what I miss on tmo: JayOnThaBeat | 23:58 |
| crashanddie | who | 23:58 |
| crashanddie | not what | 23:58 |
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| mece | ok.. well still | 23:59 |
| Duckboot | ryoohki: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=55531 <-- I started a thread about an idea which I had last night, after some conversation here on #maemo | 23:59 |
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