IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-05-07

kokosz	who needs MMS ? email your pix instead	00:00
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lcuk	kokosz, majority of population of existing phone users dont have email on phones/configured	00:00
* javispedro thinks that, in typical rushed software development fashion, one would just introduce a daemon that periodically kills browserd instead of fixing its memory leaks ;P		00:00
Stskeeps	i thought that was what flash plugin did	00:01
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javispedro	yes, well.	00:01
javispedro	if adobe decided to drop that useful feature...	00:01
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javispedro	just hope that the adobe-periodic-crash-simulator-daemon is released under an OSS license.	00:01
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DocScrutinizer	ugggh	00:02
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kokosz	read it and weep peeps: http://maemocentral.m/2010/05/06/here-is-why-the-pr-1-2-firmware-for-then-n900-is-late/	00:08
lcuk	Server not found	00:08
lcuk		00:08
lcuk		00:08
lcuk		00:08
lcuk		00:08
lcuk		00:08
lcuk		00:08
lcuk		00:08
lcuk		00:08
lcuk	Firefox can't find the server at www.maemocentral.m.	00:08
* lcuk weeps		00:08
kokosz	ouch	00:09
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kokosz	http://maemocentral.com/2010/05/06/here-is-why-the-pr-1-2-firmware-for-the-n900-is-late/	00:09
javispedro	or read the original eero post in the mailing lists.	00:10
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lcuk	i did earlier	00:10
lcuk	or i could just read the commits on gitorious of course	00:10
javispedro	poor eero, now his opinions are going to be understood as official Nokia PR stuff as soon as this gets on the interwebs	00:11
kokosz	gitorious?	00:11
lcuk	open source remember	00:11
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javispedro	lcuk: save for the sgx :)	00:11
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Trewas	sheesh, now they want to release PR1.2 without regressions, why the hell they then broke streaming avi's in PR1.1 and "fixed" it in january, yet refuse to ship that as an update :P	00:11
Chiku	A. Releases are not based on calendar, but on them being ready, based on testing results. (Hm. Is Maemo showing its Debian roots?) <-- debian got calendar since last year	00:12
Chiku	with 2 years release cycle	00:12
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kokosz	i'm praying they fix that damn email bug where the delete button is grayed out	00:13
Trewas	Chiku: no they don't, there was some debate about the release schedule to co-incide with ubuntu but that did not realize	00:13
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javispedro	kokosz: you could know that by a) looking at the bug report b) downloading the updated version of the modest source and building it.	00:13
javispedro	choose one! no need for pr1.2	00:14
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Chiku	this lien is funny... so HK native PR1.2 is too buggy one	00:15
Chiku	HK buyers bought and buying buggy PR1.2 so ?	00:15
* DocScrutinizer honestly doubts the why-1.2-is-late will bring any good bit to the rotten mood of screaming whining tmo crowd		00:15
kokosz	the chinese 1.2 flying around is buggy?	00:16
BCMM	for anybody trying to watch the UK election: http://www.livestation.com (front page) streams BBC news better than the BCC site for me	00:16
BCMM	(YMMV)	00:16
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kokosz	BCMM: on the N900?	00:17
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BCMM	yes	00:17
BCMM	blockier, but full framerate and perfect AV sync	00:17
DocScrutinizer	chinese people are used to use crap XP	00:17
BCMM	oh, it also puts "Livestation" in the corner	00:17
BCMM	but not it big letters	00:17
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BCMM	oh, and you need to mouseover with mouse mode to get the fullscreen button	00:19
BCMM	easiest is to just click the video (pausing it)	00:19
* DocScrutinizer wonders how many HK users are whining about their 1.2 being such a drag compared to the nicely stable 1.1.1 all the rest of the world is allowed to use :-D		00:19
BCMM	(rather than using mouse mode)	00:19
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trem	nite all, sweet dreams	00:21
Chiku	any HK users reported it?	00:21
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Chiku	maybe not so buggy	00:21
SpeedEvil	hmm	00:21
SpeedEvil	iplayer on the n900 is actually usable.	00:22
Chiku	or nokia want to lose asian market	00:22
Trewas	was the leaked version actually the same that ships with HK n900?	00:24
DocScrutinizer	honestly - Nokia probably found the HK 1.2 being 'good enough' to start rollout at HK, but it's probably not such a leap ahead yet from 1.1.1 to justify a worldwide release. I'm appreciating that reasoning, and probably HK users do as well, and all the "where's my 1.2??!!eleven" fools should too	00:24
Chiku	when hk pr released	00:24
javispedro	are you even sure the HK release has anything to do at all with our releases?	00:25
Joonas	what is HK?	00:25
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Chiku	hong kong	00:25
javispedro	for all we know, their definition of "1.2" might be completely different to our definition of 1.2	00:25
Chiku	you mean hk 1.2 is 1.1.2 ? :)	00:25
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: of course I'm not	00:25
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: ack	00:26
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: I pointed at that fact several times	00:26
kokosz	that dude from Nokia ... Arsi Jaki or something is running 1.2....read his blog....you peeps know which one?	00:26
javispedro	but nobody listens... I know that :)	00:26
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javispedro	"dude from Nokia" is head of maemo devices	00:27
DocScrutinizer	and his name is Ari Jaksi afaik	00:27
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lcuk	meego devices *	00:28
SpeedEvil	1.2 may not be the leaked 1.2	00:28
DocScrutinizer	Arsi sounds rather odd	00:28
MohammadAG_	was tmo pushed off a cliff?	00:28
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG_: hopefully?	00:29
DocScrutinizer	I guess that leaked crap has NOWHERE written 1.2 on it	00:29
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DocScrutinizer	there's no cliff high enough for tmo	00:30
middleearthradio	greetings. anyone aware of any efforts to attempt to port kwordquiz to the Nokia n900? If not, any up front caveats I should be aware of in attempting to port it over to n900? thanks.	00:31
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kokosz	Arsi...Ari... whomever. .. he has the true 1.2	00:31
DocScrutinizer	and I have a N980 prototype board - so what?	00:32
MohammadAG_	<javispedro> "dude from Nokia" is head of maemo (s/maemo/meego) devices	00:32
lbt	kokosz: did he get it from a chinese site though?	00:32
kokosz	lucky him	00:32
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kokosz	if that Ari dude is running 1.2 it must be close to releasing no?	00:33
Shapeshifter	...	00:33
Shapeshifter	kokosz: go drink some warm milk and relax	00:33
* DocScrutinizer really wonders what *** practics kokosz intends to undertake 'his' 1.2 once he gets hands on it		00:33
javispedro	1.2 will end world hunger!	00:33
javispedro	and cure cancer!	00:34
MohammadAG_	PR1.2 testing builds might have begun since january....	00:34
lbt	is it out then?	00:34
MohammadAG_	facepalm	00:34
Shapeshifter	javispedro: but can it cure cancer in portrait mode?	00:34
SpeedEvil1	kokosz: People were almost certainly running '1.2' release candidates a month or two after 1.1.1 came out	00:34
* DocScrutinizer SIGHS		00:34
MohammadAG_	Shapeshifter, no, but it runs Crysis	00:34
MohammadAG_	how about someone sets mode +m here :P	00:34
Shapeshifter	sweet	00:34
javispedro	in fact, people at nokia at this point are running 1.3~git+1.4modest	00:34
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GAN900	javispedro, MeeGo devices.	00:35
GAN900	javispedro, also, MeeGo operations	00:35
kokosz	do you peeps have the link to that dude's site? Ari or whatwever???	00:35
GAN900	We've come full circle!	00:35
javispedro	I've been corrected thrice! what's this meego you're speaking about!	00:35
GAN900	kokosz, http://jaaksi.blogspot.com	00:35
MohammadAG_	he's head of MeeGo devices :P	00:35
kokosz	GAN900: thanks	00:36
Trizt	is there a body?	00:36
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DocScrutinizer	corpse?	00:36
DocScrutinizer	bah, boozetime	00:37
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Trewas	why I think pr1.2 matters is that that maybe some software makers could give a flying fuck about n900 after pr1.2 with qt4.6 is available, now pretty much nobody seems interested in making software to it	00:37
tybollt	hmm looks to be Cameron in a hung parliament after all eh?	00:37
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DocScrutinizer	Trewas: orly??	00:38
Shapeshifter	huh, what's this http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_YaAt2fURNNU/S30jNW9SimI/AAAAAAAAALs/riyEWoXWOKQ/s1600/Screenshot-20100214-173750.png	00:38
tybollt	I'll give it a year before we'll see a reelection	00:38
* Trizt thinks he sees new applications almost every day		00:38
Shapeshifter	ah wait, I think I saw that in ovi store once	00:38
Trewas	DocScrutinizer: jalry!	00:38
Shapeshifter	the "i" in the lower left corner gives it away as one of the *-touch apps	00:38
tybollt	Shapeshifter: doubt you're doing 801km/h	00:38
tybollt	REALLY doubt it :)	00:38
Shapeshifter	tybollt: that's from aris blog	00:38
Shapeshifter	in a plane	00:38
tybollt	oh ok :)	00:38
tybollt	plane would make sense of course ;)	00:39
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pancake	im using sdl in n900, but every click i get some invalid MOUSEMOTION events	00:40
javispedro	"invalid"?	00:40
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pancake	well. i get like 3 mousemotion events in different positions	00:40
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javispedro	that doesn't seem invalid; this is a touch screen we're talking about.	00:41
pancake	but it's a click	00:41
javispedro	not really	00:41
javispedro	think of it	00:41
javispedro	if the sequence were mousedown -> mousemotion to correct position	00:41
lcuk	pancake, log the mousemotion events and press once in the centre of the screen	00:41
pancake	i was testing it with the pen	00:41
lcuk	and pastebin the result	00:41
javispedro	every tap would read as a drag event	00:41
lcuk	just once as close to 400,240 as you can	00:41
pancake	i already did that test, let me ssh again	00:42
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lcuk	lets see how "invalid" you mean	00:42
pancake	:)	00:42
lcuk	pancake, it will just hep us understand	00:43
lcuk	help	00:43
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lcuk	javispedro, have you seen what MohammadAG_ did?	00:44
lcuk	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3pvdFpA1II	00:44
javispedro	heh	00:45
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pancake	yep	00:45
pancake	im using sdl 1.3	00:45
lcuk	neat little effect	00:45
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DocScrutinizer	alas conflicts a little with mce	00:46
lcuk	its fun	00:46
lcuk	afaik doesnt r&d mode do something similar	00:46
DocScrutinizer	yep	00:46
lcuk	just for a practical purpose	00:46
MohammadAG_	<DocScrutinizer> alas conflicts a little with mce	00:47
javispedro	yep	00:47
MohammadAG_	nope, bypassed it :)	00:47
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DocScrutinizer	I doubt	00:47
MohammadAG_	old version killed mce	00:47
MohammadAG_	now it just kills the engine and restores it later	00:47
DocScrutinizer	probably you can spoil the pattern by pressing arbitrary key, but hey, sow what	00:47
pancake	http://lolcathost.org/b/log	00:48
MohammadAG_	echo disabled > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/engine3_mode and echo 0 > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/leds\:lp5523\:kb*/brightness to shut off all the LEDs	00:48
pancake	2 clicks log	00:48
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MohammadAG_	sliding the keyboard while it's running otoh...	00:48
MohammadAG_	btw for some reason, when running mce the LEDs turn off 1 second after echoing, if mce is off, they stay on	00:48
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, hes gonna have it lighting nearest key	00:48
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lcuk	pancake, where on the screen did you actually click	00:49
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MohammadAG_	lcuk, when I figure out how to detect keystrokes in python I'll do that ;)	00:49
DocScrutinizer	mce is restoring the engine3 whenever a kbd event or timeout event would cause kbd backlight to come up or go dim	00:49
MohammadAG_	still googling around	00:49
PhonicUK	hey everyoen	00:49
pancake	in the place where down says	00:49
pancake	(x,y)	00:49
MohammadAG_	yep	00:49
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PhonicUK	hey MohammadAG, hows your little experiment go?	00:49
lcuk	ok, so the initial tap is actually correct	00:49
lcuk	it just wanders immediately?	00:49
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lcuk	you dont make a stroke motion?	00:49
lcuk	manually	00:49
pancake	no	00:50
MohammadAG_	not bad, although it's not tied to a VU, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3pvdFpA1II	00:50
lcuk	its a tap tap	00:50
pancake	just click	00:50
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PhonicUK	awesome	00:50
PhonicUK	that a script or app?	00:50
MohammadAG_	will add this to the wiki later http://pastebin.com/k0kY0s1x	00:50
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MohammadAG_	script, .sh, lcuk helped, as usual :)	00:51
PhonicUK	and me too ^_^	00:51
MohammadAG_	lol, when I tie it to the VU I'll say that :P	00:51
MohammadAG_	thanks though :P	00:51
PhonicUK	:P	00:51
PhonicUK	yw	00:51
pancake	lcuk: any idea?	00:51
lcuk	pancake, so you first clicked in bottom right of screen	00:52
lcuk	then second click was top left	00:53
lcuk	in the centre of the quadrant basically	00:53
javispedro	the issue here is the big offset between the position reported by mousedown event and position reported by mouseup	00:53
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javispedro	ofc it seems weird sdl1.3 would cause such an offset.	00:53
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pancake	2nd click is top right	00:53
lcuk	sorry yes	00:54
lcuk	does it do this normally	00:54
lcuk	ie can you use your screen in sketch etc?	00:54
lcuk	JUST TRY IT	00:54
pancake	yes	00:54
lcuk	-CAPS	00:54
lcuk	because if you had an n810 i would say check for grit	00:54
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lcuk	around the bezel	00:54
lcuk	can you draw the points it makes and save framebuffer?	00:55
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pancake	ye i can write this	00:56
pancake	will take a while	00:56
pancake	dunno if tehre's any example somewhere	00:56
PhonicUK	has anyone done an edge test on the N900 touchscreen?	00:56
javispedro	are you for any reason using multiple fingers?	00:56
lcuk	yeah phonic	00:56
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PhonicUK	howd it come out?	00:56
lcuk	it works	00:56
PhonicUK	is there a vid somewhere?	00:57
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lcuk	PhonicUK, have you not got yourself a 900	00:59
PhonicUK	of course :P	00:59
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lcuk	then make a vid :P	00:59
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PhonicUK	lol	00:59
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PhonicUK	omg warzone2100?	01:02
PhonicUK	no way	01:02
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PhonicUK	anyone know what the package is called?	01:03
PhonicUK	i cant find it	01:03
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MohammadAG_	<PhonicUK> anyone know what the package is called? < ?	01:04
PhonicUK	for Warzone 2100	01:04
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MohammadAG_	oh	01:04
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PhonicUK	i wanna play it	01:05
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javispedro	arggh	01:05
lcuk	oh fiddlesticks	01:06
lcuk	my desktop icons have vanished on ubuntu	01:06
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lcuk	anyone know what console incantation i need to poke to get em back	01:07
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lcuk	something randomly crashes	01:07
javispedro	nautilus	01:07
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tybollt	that's kinda linux desktop for you	01:09
tybollt	"ooops something randomly crashed taking half the desktop w/ it..."	01:09
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kevloral	hi all	01:11
SpeedEvil	hi	01:12
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MohammadAG_	<lcuk> my desktop icons have vanished on ubuntu	01:18
MohammadAG_	nautilus crashed	01:18
MohammadAG_	or you killed it	01:18
* MohammadAG_ switches to the other nick		01:18
lcuk	w00t yeah :)D	01:18
lcuk	thanks MohammadAG_	01:18
lcuk	restarted it with nautilus &	01:19
MohammadAG_	:)	01:19
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MohammadAGpingth	meh	01:19
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pancake	yeah	01:26
pancake	fixed :D	01:26
javispedro	pancake: so what was it?	01:27
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pancake	in touchscreens	01:27
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pancake	the mousedown x,y is the one from the previous movement	01:27
pancake	so, you then get the new position	01:27
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javispedro	that might be actually a bug.	01:27
pancake	yes	01:28
pancake	i will add a compile-time option	01:28
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javispedro	as I was explaining ideally you should to motion event first THEN the down event.	01:28
pancake	but maybe nice to do it at runtime..but fixing would be great	01:28
javispedro	thus getting updated coordinates by the down event time.	01:28
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GAN900	Yo, pancake.	01:29
* javispedro ponders something for a moment..		01:29
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javispedro	uh..	01:29
javispedro	nothing.	01:30
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markinfo	n810 - how to make "right click" ?	01:30
javispedro	no universal way by default	01:31
javispedro	most gtk apps -- long tap	01:31
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markinfo	javispedro, hm - at east skype accept that.	01:32
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markinfo	how to get Skype in Notification Statusbar? "close" Button want to shutdown skype. Pidgi works properly.	01:34
PhonicUK	I wanna game like Wipeout for Maemo	01:35
PhonicUK	maybe i'll learn how to use Ogre and make one	01:35
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markinfo	OS2008 ... /var/log is completely empty. Where are logs? or must be activated?	01:52
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genewitch	anyone around today that can help me with the n800 RSS feed reader?	01:55
javispedro	markinfo: must be _installed_, as by default no syslog daemon is installed.	01:56
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DocScrutinizer51	javispedro: which is kinda pitty	02:00
C`I`A	hi	02:01
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markinfo	javispedro, what is the package name for syslog daemon?	02:01
javispedro	http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/diablo/syslog/	02:02
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genewitch	The rss feed reader on the n800 stopped refreshing 8/9 of my feeds	02:05
genewitch	manual or automatically.	02:06
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markinfo	javispedro, there is no package "sysklogd"	02:10
javispedro	markinfo: you need to enable tools repository	02:10
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javispedro	http://maemo.org/development/tools/diablo/	02:10
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jd	<3	02:16
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javispedro	OTG state: a_idle :P	02:26
javispedro	Mode=Peripheral :(	02:26
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markinfo	javispedro, "Note!: To have these tools visible in the Application manager, you need to have the Red Pill Mode activated. " link goes nowhere.	02:32
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javispedro	markinfo: ignore that and use apt-get	02:32
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N900evil	javispedro: anything more? - dsl died	02:36
javispedro	nope.	02:36
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markinfo	javispedro, sysklog works already. Syslog is full with many messages "EAC mode:play disabled, rec disabled" every 5 seconds.	02:43
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* GAN900 pokes javispedro.		02:47
javispedro	hi	02:48
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kthomas_vh	way to reinstall n810 standard web browser (it seems dead)?	02:50
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markinfo	hm - the same Question - what is the standard browser at all? There is no name or version.	02:55
* SpeedEvil suffers context switching problems.		02:57
SpeedEvil	markinfo: this is for n810?	02:57
markinfo	yes	02:57
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MohammadAG	microB afaik	02:57
MohammadAG	(not sure about the N8**)	02:57
markinfo	I would like to have some Browser with html5 support.	02:57
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javispedro	Status: MHDRC, Mode=Host	02:58
javispedro	inactive :(	02:58
javispedro	bah	02:58
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javispedro	I'm not getting any interrupts whenever I plug in a self powered hub	02:59
kthomas_vh	I'd like to have a browser other than FF1, which keeps crashing :)	02:59
javispedro	but as soon as I plug the n900 into the hub as a gadget, interrupt storm.	02:59
javispedro	whatever the musb driver state.	02:59
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* javispedro thinks this will require now careful reading of the isp170x datasheets		03:00
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markinfo	standard browser in OS2008 sends User Agent: Firefox 3.0	03:00
genewitch	is there a way to reinstall stuff like the browser or the feed reader?	03:01
markinfo	is there a chance for firefox 3.6?	03:01
kthomas_vh	kthomas_vh: reinstall the microbe-engine deb package using dpkg.	03:01
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markinfo	I heard about Fenec browser.	03:02
genewitch	none of the browsers work for me except the stock one in os2008	03:02
genewitch	midori and the other webkit one	03:02
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markinfo	Who is doing software for OS2008 at all? Or preparig packages?	03:03
genewitch	no idea	03:03
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markinfo	are there some maintainers like in Debian?	03:06
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markinfo	genewitch, midori is very old version in repositories.	03:08
MohammadAG	javispedro, so... host mode didn't work for you?	03:10
javispedro	MohammadAG: I'm just trying to break it, nothing new.	03:10
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markinfo	and webkit is also very old version from 2008 year.	03:13
markinfo	is there a way how to get newer versions of programs on n810?	03:14
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javispedro	hey, at least, I broke charging already.	03:24
markinfo	genewitch, Fennec browser on n810 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoMBp9uFf3s&feature=related	03:24
lcuk	supposing i have written a simple app in python	03:26
lcuk	it cleanly uses pyqt api and has class based structure	03:27
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lcuk	is it possible to examine the python execution model and produce a c++ representation of that code	03:27
lcuk	for clean compilation and transfer to a regular fast c++ binary	03:27
janneg	lcuk: there's shedskin	03:28
lcuk	?	03:28
lcuk	an app?	03:28
janneg	it probably can't handle pyqt	03:28
lcuk	:D	03:28
lcuk	well that can be examined	03:28
janneg	it's an restricted python to C++ compiler	03:28
lcuk	ive got code here that needs to be native	03:28
lcuk	i can grep the resulting stuff and fix it	03:28
lcuk	but i want the basic structure to come from it	03:29
lcuk	nice, thanks for the tip jenn	03:29
lcuk	janneg,	03:29
janneg	http://shed-skin.blogspot.com/	03:29
lcuk	yeah im on there now	03:29
lcuk	thats a really good tip :) im gonna post it on the python speedups page	03:30
lcuk	its not a solution for everything, but if it saves the "getting started" part of converting a slow branch	03:30
lcuk	it will be worth it	03:30
Myrtti	right, I'm officially calling my attempts to do HD video editing on my Dell Latitude Laptop with Linux applications vain and futile...	03:30
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Myrtti	sorry if I've kept people waiting for the Linux Collaboration Summit Meego Workgroup videos	03:31
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markinfo	what is /pub/mozilla.org/mobile/repos/1.9.2_en-US/dists/chinook/ "chinook" like squeeze in debian?	03:35
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SpeedEvil	http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=961876 - todays 'hacking is cool' post. Truly small fly.	03:37
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Myrtti	markinfo: it's like hardy/intrepid/jaunty etc in Ubuntu (the comparison to Ubuntu in this sense fits better since Maemo certainly isn't a rolling release thing)	03:41
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markinfo	hm - I have OS2008 - that is not "chinook" ?	03:46
MohammadAG	diablo	03:47
MohammadAG	iirc	03:47
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javispedro	OS2008 is chinook, OS2008 Feature Pack is Diablo	03:51
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Termana	good morning	03:54
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DocScrutinizer	wtf? quiet earth?	04:17
MohammadAG	echo	04:17
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MohammadAG	i'm off	04:30
MohammadAG	Night all	04:30
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DocScrutinizer	goodnight	04:39
* DocScrutinizer waves		04:52
dAnIeLLL	^^	04:52
GAN900	Myrtti, it's OK, even roblimo agrees.	04:55
DocScrutinizer	vv	04:55
DocScrutinizer	EHLO GAN900	04:56
GAN900	Howdy, DocScrutinizer.	04:56
GAN900	How's kicks?	04:56
DocScrutinizer	powerbutton borked - - - pissed	04:56
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DocScrutinizer	though I learn how to engage it even while it's messed up	04:57
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DocScrutinizer	GAN900: pondering to get a devel device dedicated to messing around with host mode -watching your karma and thinking "screw it"	05:00
* DocScrutinizer wonders how tmo is contributing to friggin karma, or if karma is a worthwhile currency for anything at all		05:02
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DocScrutinizer	anyway swamped... cya	05:04
javispedro	bah.	05:06
javispedro	this is too hard	05:06
GAN900	lol	05:07
GAN900	javispedro, use your council powers to extort the required info from Nokia!	05:07
DocScrutinizer	eh?	05:07
javispedro	so I set up the isp1707 registers conveniently	05:07
javispedro	disabling DM and DP pull downs,	05:08
DocScrutinizer	sorry dudes, seems I'm not able to keep up with it	05:08
DocScrutinizer	right now	05:08
SpeedEvil	javispedro: Any change in impedence/voltage?	05:08
javispedro	and after a few picoseconds the entire phy shuts off, and all I get while trying to use ulpi are timeouts	05:08
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: waht??	05:08
SpeedEvil	hmm	05:08
DocScrutinizer	friggin shit	05:09
shinkamui	hmm	05:09
shinkamui	things are looking great	05:09
shinkamui	at this point, I think Im gonna port over to tmobile US and buy the mugen battery	05:09
DocScrutinizer	shinkamui: sure	05:09
DocScrutinizer	shinkamui: fine	05:09
shinkamui	docscrutinizer whats wrong G?	05:09
shinkamui	did I miss something interesting?	05:10
DocScrutinizer	+q or reasonable contribution?	05:10
shinkamui	well, Im asking, I just logged into my bnc to chatter a little and you seem to be a little sarcastic	05:11
shinkamui	so Im wondering if I said something wrong	05:11
DocScrutinizer	naAAAH g'nite	05:11
javispedro	:)	05:11
javispedro	gnite.	05:11
shinkamui	lol, ok then gnight	05:11
Myrtti	GAN900: agrees on what?	05:11
GAN900	Myrtti, that Linux video editing sucks.	05:11
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: please either post to friggin tmo, or ping me tomorrow	05:11
GAN900	Myrtti, what he told me at FLS, anyway.	05:11
shinkamui	so... has anyone used the jawbone icon yet?	05:11
shinkamui	I hate bt headsets, but I really think wiht that + my 900, I found a winning combo	05:12
shinkamui	my 8month cellular turnaround might be over...	05:12
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: will do	05:12
DocScrutinizer	thanks	05:12
Myrtti	GAN900: I did honestly try to give some apps a fair shot. My laptop just had an apoplexy and decided that it didn't want to play ball	05:13
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DocScrutinizer	meanwhile council might consider to support my yet to come application at Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue	05:15
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DocScrutinizer	I'm fed up with borking hardware, and my daily phone failing when I need it	05:15
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shinkamui	doc: whats happening?	05:16
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SpeedEvil	His button fell off.	05:17
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shinkamui	roh noes!	05:19
shinkamui	power button?	05:19
shinkamui	damn	05:20
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tekojo	Morning Maemo!	08:50
Stskeeps	morn	08:50
Dima_Sharihin	Morning =)	08:51
reggna	:)	08:52
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ossipena	hi i have a astupid question: how do you add your software to bugzilla	08:58
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Stskeeps	asking andre usually	08:59
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opdf2	sometimes i play movies on a tv from my n900. Is there a way to control the playback with a wiimote?	09:00
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ossipena	Stskeeps thanks for the info	09:00
ossipena	just found a correct wiki page	09:00
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Manjiri	Hi	09:10
Manjiri	How does one install a .deb on N900\	09:10
Manjiri	I have compiled a test application into a debian package with target armel. I have copied the debian package to my N900 from my PC	09:12
Manjiri	How do I install it	09:12
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Dima_Sharihin	sudo dpkg -i your_package.deb?	09:13
Manjiri	it asks for root password	09:14
Manjiri	?	09:14
ossipena	sudo gainroot	09:14
ossipena	after that dpkg ....	09:14
Manjiri	How do I install rootsh?	09:14
ossipena	use HAM	09:14
ossipena	application manager	09:15
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Manjiri	I am having trouble getting updates from the App manager	09:16
Manjiri	So I downloaded the rootsh.install file	09:16
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ossipena	you have to use application manager I think	09:16
Manjiri	I tried to click on it to install, it opens app manager	09:16
Manjiri	and I get unable to find package	09:17
Manjiri	error	09:17
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ossipena	do you have connection to internet?	09:17
Manjiri	yes wifi	09:17
ossipena	there is something wrong with your application manager then	09:18
TTilus	finally got bt keyboard working properly	09:18
Manjiri	Do I need to make any connection settings in app manager ?	09:18
ossipena	there is no such settings	09:18
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Manjiri	Coz when I say 'update' from app manager, it throws proxy auth required ...	09:18
ossipena	theres your problem:network	09:19
Manjiri	I am able to browse sites though	09:19
ossipena	do you use proxy?	09:19
Manjiri	yes	09:19
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ossipena	http is different than app manager	09:19
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ossipena	so the problem is that ham doesnt like your connection	09:20
Manjiri	I have set proxy details in internet connections	09:20
Manjiri	ohh	09:20
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ossipena	the proxy probably restricts the connectivity of ham	09:21
Manjiri	Is there no offline way to install apps?	09:22
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opdf2	anyone change the softvol of mplayer? is 400 safe?	09:25
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zokier	Manjiri, dpkg can install apps from .deb packages	09:44
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opdf2	nm yes it is safe	09:45
opdf2	soo... I was thinking of mapping sftp drive to n900 media folders for wireless sync, but since the eMMC is still mounted, is that safe?	09:45
Manjiri	I know, but I either need pwd or rootsh installed	09:46
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zokier	oh, you got kinda chicken-egg problem there	09:50
Manjiri	I Know zokier.	09:51
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Manjiri	Is it true that Applcation manager on N900 has trouble with proxies?	09:52
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alterego	Depressing	10:05
Stskeeps	mm?	10:06
fraggeln	anyone using fmms with 3(Sweden) ?	10:07
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alterego	UK Politics :)	10:11
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RST38h	...and good mourning to you all	10:17
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TTilus	updated the wiki http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Bluetooth_Keyboard_Layout#Starting_daemon_script_automaticallyhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Bluetooth_Keyboard_Layout#Starting_daemon_script_automaticall	10:18
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Stskeeps	double paste	10:19
Xisdibik	pastetacular	10:19
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Stskeeps	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=647513&postcount=761	10:43
Stskeeps	scary, they're actually pulling some form of usb host off	10:43
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alterego	scary? :P	10:43
Stskeeps	you should read the discussions	10:43
Stskeeps	:P	10:43
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alterego	Yeah, I'll wait until they get it working before I start messing with the most important connector on the device :D	10:45
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ShadowJK	Stskeeps, if it gets to a working state we need to poke Nokia :P	10:46
ShadowJK	about bme	10:47
Stskeeps	i'm more pondering if the usb host advertisement was actually a challenge to recruit people	10:47
Stskeeps	:P	10:47
ShadowJK	ah well	10:47
ShadowJK	Might also be an idea to check out how far the Droid people got with host mode	10:47
ShadowJK	iirc they were also having problems	10:48
RST38h	heya ShadowJK, Stskeeps	10:48
RST38h	Evil USB hackers	10:48
Dima_Sharihin	I want usb host!!! =)	10:51
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tybollt	o_O Stskeeps usb host? what what?	10:52
fraggeln	is there a videocamera app for the n900?	10:53
ShadowJK	a what?	10:53
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tybollt	sjk: I'm gussing fraggeln means the camcorder mode of the camera app :-)	10:55
ShadowJK	I was going to ask if he means something that does exactly the same thing as the camera app..	10:57
tybollt	=)	10:57
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tybollt	admitedly it's not very easy to "find" the camcorder mode...	10:57
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tybollt	it's not super obvious	10:58
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furunk3l	y helo thar!	11:04
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N900evil	I don't think much of the new government. My DSL fell over at 9am.	11:17
asj	you guys formed a govt?	11:18
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tybollt	huh	11:19
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tybollt	no they did not	11:25
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Stskeeps: fun	11:26
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SpeedEvil	If the vusb wasn't from the 1707 - then I can't imagine it had a stable vcc	11:28
SpeedEvil	vusb	11:28
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SpeedEvil	If the boost cap of the twl4030 isn't there - it can't provide any boost	11:28
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SpeedEvil	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=647624&postcount=762	11:32
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Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: http://tinyurl.com/nnt34l , '	11:32
Stskeeps	Senior Electronics Engineer, MeeGo UI HW Techologies team	11:32
Stskeeps	'	11:32
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: might be of interest to you (go look at it)	11:32
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: indeed	11:33
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Dima_Sharihin	If this is the case, then VBUS is going to be very low - under 3V? \|\| Can we connect +5V on VBUS directly?	11:34
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SpeedEvil	yes, easily	11:47
SpeedEvil	externally	11:47
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adisbladis	How can i get screen locking disabled while charging?	11:51
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SpeedEvil	there is a 'screen stays on when charging'	11:51
adisbladis	That is screen stays lit	11:52
adisbladis	I want the screen lock disabled	11:52
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tybollt	far as I know - no such thing	11:52
TigerTael	3rd party app?	11:52
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adisbladis	TigerTael: Do you know of any?	11:53
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TigerTael	not me ;/	11:53
SpeedEvil	adisbladis: ah - I don't have lock on	11:53
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ShadowJK	Also, DocScrutinizer tested and proved we can get stable +5V onto VBUS from the battery charger chip (bq24150)	12:00
ShadowJK	However, bme wants to have nothing of it, and kills it pretty soon. And if you halt bme, the system reboots pretty soon.	12:01
RichardP	does anyone else have issues with the N900 and wifi? it connects to the router fine, but after a while just stops working - says its still connected, but MicroB cant load pages etc. disconnecting and reconnecting the wifi works for a time and then it stops again. no other system is having this issue with the same router	12:01
ShadowJK	Hopefully if the USB side starts working, we can convince sts to go jab some nokia people to let us have a bme that allows us to run the battery charger in reverse :D	12:01
tybollt	RichardP: Yes, yes indeed	12:01
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: indeed.	12:02
tybollt	sjk: Run the battery charger in reverse? What in the name of hell are you on to?	12:02
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: But that's quite irrelevant for testing, as you can simply apply 5v externally	12:02
tybollt	sjk	12:02
SpeedEvil	tybollt: the battery charger has a output voltage boost mode	12:02
ShadowJK	I have something similar, where if I'm in weak signal, microb will think it's offline and everything else keeps working with lag	12:02
SpeedEvil	tybollt: where it takes the battery voltage and outputs it on USB boosted, not charges the battery	12:03
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ShadowJK	tybollt, as it happens the battery charger chip (in N900) has a bonus feature... it can take battery voltage and output +5V :-)	12:03
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ShadowJK	As opposed to the usual operation of taking +5V and making it into 3.2 ... 4.2V and putting it into the battery :)	12:04
SpeedEvil	This is an inherent design of the chip, and requires no extra components	12:04
tybollt	oh	12:04
tybollt	so turbo-charging the bat?	12:04
SpeedEvil	no	12:05
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SpeedEvil	it's simply using it to supply the external USB socket for host/otg mode	12:05
SpeedEvil	(or designed to)	12:05
tybollt	ah olrite	12:05
SpeedEvil	OTG of course can't work here.	12:05
tybollt	I thought (admittedly didn't research this) there were pins/wires missing for the full kahuna?	12:06
ShadowJK	ya	12:06
SpeedEvil	It depends.	12:06
ShadowJK	full kahuna being OTG	12:06
SpeedEvil	OTG can't work - there isn't enough pins	12:06
ShadowJK	but nobody gives a shit about OTH	12:06
ShadowJK	OTG*	12:06
SpeedEvil	USB host mode doesn't mind	12:06
ShadowJK	The special cables are damn near impossible to find anyway :)	12:06
tybollt	it depends? HEADEXPLODE	12:06
SpeedEvil	THERE ARE FOUR WIRES!	12:07
SpeedEvil	(sorry)	12:07
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tybollt	so ol it requires is the firmware of the chip be fixed and a magic cable and ... I can haz?	12:08
SpeedEvil	yes	12:08
tybollt	ok, is it known whether stskeeps has a paypal account? ;)	12:08
Stskeeps	i don't take bribes	12:08
Stskeeps	:P	12:08
tybollt	;D	12:08
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps isn't the only one working on it.	12:08
SpeedEvil	For $100, I'd dedicate the next week to it :)	12:09
Stskeeps	if there's community work showing that usb host can happen with minimal change to a closed source process, i really doubt there would be resistance to making a patch and releasing the binary.	12:09
bibounefr_	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6LjxiSzgG8&NR=1	12:09
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ShadowJK	Stskeeps, "minimal" is debatable :)	12:10
tybollt	serious note though... as someone (you?) wrote it... There's the USB spec thing. Nokia may get in trouble if doing this - right?	12:10
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SpeedEvil	tybollt: for user-contributed firmware not distributed on the device - clearly not	12:10
SpeedEvil	tybollt: For example - there is already an overclock kernel in extras-devel	12:10
SpeedEvil	there is no reason a usb-host kernel couldn't pop up	12:11
RichardP	yay, Hung Parliament	12:11
SpeedEvil	RichardP: All of them?	12:11
SpeedEvil	RichardP: Way to go!	12:11
SpeedEvil	RichardP: The lords too?	12:11
SpeedEvil	np: Sex Pistols - Anarchy in the UK.	12:12
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tybollt	SpeedEvil: house of lords changed names - didn't you hear? house of corrupts now ;)	12:12
tybollt	and no I reckon as soon as clegg gets brown to step down he'll rule w/ the labour	12:13
tybollt	ehr, govern...	12:13
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ShadowJK	Stskeeps, it depends on how bme is structured... but seeing as it likes to grope the charger chip constantly, modifying it to if(!bq24150.boostmode){ grope(); grope(); poke(); nudge(); stroke(); coo(); } else { /* Community is taking their turn, hmpfh */ } would work ;)	12:13
SpeedEvil	tybollt: labour + libdem does not quite equal a majority	12:14
tybollt	eah it doesn't	12:14
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Or of course rip BME out by the hairs.	12:14
tybollt	ouch	12:14
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SpeedEvil	tybollt: You can add the scottish and welsh nats, and get a majority - but...	12:15
ShadowJK	The idea of a single party having more than 50% is a frightening thought to me :P	12:15
tybollt	SpeedEvil: :)	12:15
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: my main reason for assuming it might work is that nokians were using usb host in the past themselves :P	12:15
Stskeeps	ie, as users	12:15
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: source?	12:15
ShadowJK	oh I suppose it's just the driver that's sabotaged then :)	12:15
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: oh - not with n900?	12:15
Stskeeps	SpeedEvil: not on n900	12:15
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Stskeeps	the other issue is, how would you deal with charging? needing a reboot or?	12:17
tybollt	anyway looking at the percentage vs the seats it is quite gross (that being said by someone in a country w/ proportional system).	12:17
tybollt	Stskeeps: insmod?	12:17
SpeedEvil	Stskeeps: replacing BME would be one way	12:17
SpeedEvil	tybollt: yes.	12:17
SpeedEvil	tybollt: it's not a completely 'fair' system	12:18
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ShadowJK	replacing bme looks a bit complicated, even fucking pulseaudio is talking to it?	12:18
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ShadowJK	(yeah I know you'll say rip out pulseaudio..)	12:18
SpeedEvil	Well - yes.	12:18
Stskeeps	that sounds a bit weird if it does	12:18
SpeedEvil	Is there an actual good reason for that though	12:18
SpeedEvil	well	12:18
Stskeeps	unless there's a power saving algo for that	12:18
BCMM	tybollt: if somebody has to form a coalition with libdems, they are almost certain to make it conditional on PR	12:18
SpeedEvil	if pulseaudio is open - surely it is - ...	12:18
BCMM	(or to put it another way, we're working on that...)	12:19
tybollt	can't we just buy Jaaksi a boatload of KARHU and while he's busy getting drunk we go to ESPOO and implement this?	12:19
* SpeedEvil wonders if pulseaudio is open to do charger beep or something silly		12:19
Stskeeps	i don't think espoo's the right place to go	12:19
Stskeeps	:P	12:19
ShadowJK	Karhu is making a 1-litre can now, 24 or so of those should do	12:19
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tybollt	BCMM: which'd be the conservatives I suppose - however they are strongly opposed to it	12:20
BCMM	tybollt: they benifit from it to a lesser degree than labour does	12:20
BCMM	tybollt: (since labour has it's votes somewhat concentrated in northern inner cities)	12:20
ShadowJK	The "proper" way would be to move bme into kernel. Kernel has regulator device class for the boost function of bq24150, power supply and battery device classes for the rest... the USB driver could ask the charger to turn on the USB power, etc	12:21
ShadowJK	And theoretically all the documentation needed is available.. but I don't know of any kernel coders :)	12:22
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ShadowJK	And Nokia is probably secretly doing this anyway (sans boost mode for usb probably) as we speak.	12:22
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Stskeeps	ShadowJK: i wonder if there's a bme command to temporary disable bme or some other nice features	12:23
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ShadowJK	disable everything except low battery shutdown	12:24
ShadowJK	that's still nice to have	12:24
ShadowJK	(though luke would disagree, it's his favourite issue)	12:24
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tybollt	sjk: how so?	12:26
ShadowJK	hm?	12:26
tybollt	ShadowJK> (though luke would disagree, it's his favourite issue)	12:27
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ShadowJK	Oh he thinks that if he can disable the low battery shutdown he'll get more batterylife	12:28
X-Fade	ShadowJK: That will work once, for sure ;)	12:28
tybollt	sjk: sure but then he'll risk draining it to the point where usb-charger won't work anymore...	12:29
TigerTael	X-Fade, haha.	12:29
TigerTael	I remember the old WM 5 phones.	12:29
X-Fade	tybollt: Even worse, the lipo itself will get damaged.	12:29
ShadowJK	tybollt, he'll risk draining it to the point where it catches fire if you try recharge it ;)	12:29
tybollt	;)	12:29
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ShadowJK	Stskeeps, so yeah, just get the relevant engineers drunk and wrestle a N810 bme without lowbattery shutdown and give it to luke, his house will catch fire and you don't have to argue with him anymore ;)	12:30
ShadowJK	Although N810 probably has a hardware shutdown too :(	12:30
Dima_Sharihin	=)))	12:30
tybollt	sjk =)	12:31
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tybollt	it has to be in firmware right?	12:32
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dhq	what is that dish like symbol that comes when i start maps..... its the gps rite, when i star maps it takes like 10 mins to establish everytime......... but when i run a program like celltowerinfo the dish symbol connects immediatly byt when i launch maps there is no data	12:32
ShadowJK	maybe "celltowerinfo" is only requesting rough position data without gps	12:33
ShadowJK	tybollt, it's either hardware or in bme, or both	12:33
ShadowJK	there isn't really anything like SMM on ARM..	12:33
tybollt	has to be in hardware	12:33
tybollt	so I reckon - both	12:33
dhq	so any idea if n900 will get new maps	12:34
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SpeedEvil	dhq: ave you tried with it outdoors in the open sky for 10 mins or so? Worst-case that should get a lock.	12:36
dhq	i have tried	12:36
dhq	i dont have internet on my phone	12:36
dhq	everytime i try it takes 10 mins	12:36
dhq	10 mins or more or sometimes doesnt even connect	12:37
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SpeedEvil	I think I pointed you to a bug last time - that's somewhat relevant	12:41
SpeedEvil	also	12:41
SpeedEvil	connecting the phone through wifi will also work to get a lock	12:41
SpeedEvil	it may be more reliable after the first lock	12:41
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dhq	SpeedEvil: i dont have wifi here	12:46
SpeedEvil	how are you talking?	12:46
SpeedEvil	Connecting the phone over USB can be done	12:46
Shapeshifter	man, http://www.digital-tunes.net/ is a pita to browse in microb	12:47
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dhq	on my laptop via ehternet	12:48
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SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking	12:49
dhq	hmm	12:50
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dhq	please dont kick me but is pr1.2 out tommoro	12:58
SpeedEvil	doubtful	12:58
dhq	its there in maemotalk	12:59
`0660	:P	12:59
dhq	SpeedEvil: why do you say doubtful	13:00
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Oooh. I looked at source of pulseaudio. Just reading the changelog and not looking into the sourcecode brings up two plausible reasons for it to talk to bme.	13:00
`0660	i trust nothing more than maemotalk :)	13:00
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: Turning bluetooth on and off for the audio, and the DSP	13:00
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SpeedEvil	dhq: because it hasn't come out every day for the last several months	13:00
dhq	dint get you	13:01
Dima_Sharihin	lol, dhq why you saying about pr1.2???	13:01
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dhq	Dima_Sharihin: am i saying something wrong	13:02
Termana	hey crashanddie	13:03
frals	crap dhq it was suppose to come out but since you asked they postponed it another week :(	13:03
dhq	lol, your kidding rite	13:03
Termana	no	13:03
Dima_Sharihin	unhappy n900 users :D	13:03
Termana	he's deadly serious	13:03
dhq	deadly lolzzz	13:04
dhq	then why have they moved a thread on maemo saying that "PR1.2 coming tomorrow, CONFIRMED."	13:04
Termana	what are you laughing at? Thats the way the Ubuntu release work	13:05
Termana	works*	13:05
X-Fade	A release in the weekend, sure :)	13:05
dhq	atleast ubuntu has a roadmap which they follow	13:05
SpeedEvil	So does nokia.	13:05
SpeedEvil	It's just not public	13:06
dhq	lol thats the problem	13:06
Dima_Sharihin	yes, just want to say it =)	13:06
dhq	they can delay it as long as they want then	13:06
ShadowJK	I thought Eero explained it pretty well	13:06
Anss\|	must be big patch if people are still doing it	13:06
ShadowJK	It's the fault of all those rootfs whiners!	13:06
Dima_Sharihin	dhq, do you think this is unfair?	13:07
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Stskeeps	each time you overclock a n900 they push the release one day	13:07
iPeter-	hi. is ther anyway to disable showing offline contacts on n900?	13:07
dhq	Dima_Sharihin: i really feel its unfair	13:07
TigerTael	Stskeeps, haha.	13:07
* dhq goes in a coner and cries		13:07
joga	iPeter-: you mean selecting "available" in contacts?	13:07
Termana	Stskeeps, everytime you overclock an n900, DocScrutinizer loses a life	13:07
ShadowJK	Right now 1.1.1 is more stable than 1.2 anyway, or so they say :)	13:07
Dima_Sharihin	Stskeeps, each time you overclock n900 you impending death of device on the day =)	13:07
petteri	nokia should get PRs out more often and with smaller content	13:08
`0660	petteri, i agree	13:08
joga	(it'll still show the contacts whose "Online" status can't be known, ie. the phone contacts)	13:08
TigerTael	petteri, I wouldn't like to keep reflashing my phone every 2 days.	13:08
crashanddie	every time you ask about overclocking, or PR1.2, god kills an iPhone owner	13:08
TigerTael	YAY	13:08
crashanddie	no, wait	13:08
petteri	TigerTael: i haven't flashed my phone ever. Why can't you update like normal people :)	13:08
dhq	hehe	13:09
TigerTael	petteri, maybe because it doesn't work for me?	13:09
`0660	i don't think i'll be able to make video call to my mum on sunday :/	13:09
`0660	:)	13:09
dhq	or maybe you will :)	13:09
Dima_Sharihin	Let's update our phones like gentoo... every day with gcc =]	13:09
ShadowJK	I don't think you'll be able to make video calls with PR1.2 either ;)	13:09
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dhq	ShadowJK: the leaked version people say you can	13:10
`0660	i thought so too	13:10
ShadowJK	dhq, do they mean google talk video calls?	13:10
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ShadowJK	or sip video calls?	13:10
ShadowJK	or skype video calls?	13:10
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: how did you find bme talking to pulse?	13:10
`0660	i talking about skype video calls	13:10
crashanddie	google talk was bound to work	13:10
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`0660	+'m	13:10
crashanddie	considering it already works in a few instances	13:10
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil: libbmeipc or something like that iirc	13:11
crashanddie	(n810 to n900 video calls, for example)	13:11
ShadowJK	or libbmerpc	13:11
crashanddie	`0660: skype video calls is out of the hands of the Nokia engineers really, the Skype client needs to implement support for it, and that's about it	13:11
dhq	oh	13:12
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SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: There are no mentions of 'bme' in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/p/pulseaudio/pulseaudio_0.9.15-1maemo38+0m5.tar.gz - grep -ri bme shows nothing	13:12
`0660	crashanddie, i know, but i was under the impression that skype would be updated along with the 1.2	13:12
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: I'm possibly looking in the wrong place	13:12
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: (for the source - I'm confident that it's not in the source)	13:13
dhq	what bout 3g video calling	13:13
dhq	anything bout that	13:13
`0660	i haven't seen any skype updates outside of major releases at least...	13:13
hrw	hi	13:13
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ShadowJK	# cat /proc/$(pidof pulseaudio)/maps \| grep bme \| head -1	13:14
ShadowJK	40c98000-40c9a000 r-xp 00000000 fe:01 336123 /usr/lib/libbmeipc.so.0	13:14
ShadowJK	dhq, I don't think that will EVER come :)	13:14
Stskeeps	check which one of the modules uses it	13:14
dhq	ShadowJK: you are so confident .......... Dont know wht nokia released an incomplete OS	13:15
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ShadowJK	I think it's complete as it is :)	13:16
TomaszD	bike almost ready for the season http://imgur.com/OFbkV.jpg :D	13:16
hrw	~curse nokia	13:17
TomaszD	what did they do wrong this time hrw	13:17
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dhq	ShadowJK: Complete?? you gotta be joking	13:17
hrw	TomaszD: same as usual	13:18
crashanddie	~ping	13:18
infobot	~pong	13:18
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TomaszD	hrw, developing in a secret bunker, away from your prying eyes? ;)	13:18
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hrw	TomaszD: haha ha ;)	13:19
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crashanddie	TomaszD: what kind of biking do you do with that thing?	13:19
TomaszD	crashanddie, it's a typical cheap MTB converted to a road bike	13:20
TomaszD	so mostly bike lines, there's lots of them here	13:20
crashanddie	hmm	13:20
TomaszD	new tires, new seat, some misc. accessories	13:20
crashanddie	why not get a road bike then?	13:20
TomaszD	because I'm a cheapskate	13:21
TomaszD	and tires weren't cheap anyway ;)	13:21
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crashanddie	well, they're only like what, 15-20 quid?	13:22
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crashanddie	That's quite cheap	13:22
TomaszD	tires cost me 31 GBP if that's your preferred currency	13:22
crashanddie	http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Schwalbe_Big_Apple_MTB_Tyre/5360007847/ :)	13:22
TomaszD	I got them cheaper than that then	13:23
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TomaszD	they're awesome	13:23
TomaszD	quiet, good grip, low rolling resistance	13:23
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crashanddie	TomaszD: that's 18 quid for both :P	13:23
TomaszD	oh	13:24
dhq	how do i check my front cam working	13:24
crashanddie	dhq: mirror app	13:24
Scelt	dhq: download healthcheck	13:24
TomaszD	crashanddie, are you sure?	13:24
TomaszD	crashanddie, I don't think you're right	13:24
crashanddie	TomaszD: yeah, I've bought heaps of tyres on wiggle	13:24
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TomaszD	it says "tyre" not "tyres"	13:24
TomaszD	36 GBP would be a reasonable price for two in UK I guess	13:25
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iPeter-	hi. is ther anyway to disable showing offline contacts on n900? like it shows only online contacts	13:25
frals	in contacts press app menu and "availability" or smth?	13:26
TomaszD	iPeter-, in the address book? No. But you can sort by availability	13:26
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iPeter-	okay damn	13:26
crashanddie	TomaszD: http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/tags/bike/	13:26
TomaszD	so that available, then busy, then away contact are first, then the rest	13:26
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TomaszD	crashanddie, what I've learned these past few days that you can sink unbelievable amounts of money into a bike	13:27
TomaszD	so I'm trying to avoid that	13:27
TomaszD	:)	13:27
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crashanddie	yeah	13:28
crashanddie	I got that bike for 700 GBP	13:28
TomaszD	see, that's car money	13:28
crashanddie	then I changed the tyres, wheels, got a dynamo hub in the front wheel, built the light, changed the seat, shaved off around 1.8kg in total off the weight of the bike	13:29
crashanddie	oh yeah, pedals as well	13:29
crashanddie	got SPDs	13:29
TomaszD	there's so many possibilities it's not even funny	13:30
dhq	see you guys	13:30
crashanddie	later	13:30
TomaszD	I've spent >50GBP this season and probably doubled what my bike is worth	13:30
TomaszD	the best spent money was on the seat though	13:30
TomaszD	the previous one I had was... agonizing	13:31
crashanddie	good tyres is where you see the biggest improvement	13:31
crashanddie	I guess seat is important as well if you're not often out of it	13:31
TomaszD	yeah, for a road bike it's important	13:31
TomaszD	not so much for a MTB	13:31
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crashanddie	but well, I'm a mtber, so I'm out of my seat most of the time, especially considering I don't have a dampening fork yet	13:32
tybollt	crashanddie: x-county or downhill?	13:32
tybollt	I tried downhill in a ski slope	13:32
tybollt	almost killed me	13:32
crashanddie	well, proper downhill is dangerous if you don't have the proper bike for it	13:33
tybollt	now a days on c-country :)	13:33
crashanddie	I do a bit of it, but only on slopes that I know	13:33
tybollt	crashanddie: bingo	13:33
crashanddie	or if I do downhill slops, very slow, and with a nice orange jacket so people behind me see me	13:33
tybollt	that's what happened to me...	13:33
tybollt	I had bunch iof professionals aftrer me	13:33
tybollt	I stoped at the wrong place	13:33
tybollt	had to emergency eject back into the slope	13:34
tybollt	hit a fat root	13:34
crashanddie	yeah, it's seriously dangerous, you need a full face helmet, in some cases even body armour, and very good suspension	13:34
tybollt	and got ejected a few meters into a large tree	13:34
crashanddie	I would definitely recommend hiring a bike and gear for the day when you really want to try out downhill	13:34
crashanddie	tybollt: ever seen the seasons?	13:35
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tybollt	crashanddie: no?	13:35
TomaszD	hmm, this reminds me, I still don't have a helmet	13:35
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tybollt	Mind I'm very much the amature and have not done any serious mtbing for the last eight years or so :)	13:35
crashanddie	tybollt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKGtXyBboOc	13:35
TomaszD	man, that is hardcore	13:37
TomaszD	my bike would fall apart on the third bend	13:38
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tybollt	yeah	13:39
tybollt	nice	13:39
tybollt	though I'm 180/82 now. Getting on a bike would kill me (and the bike ;)	13:40
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crashanddie	probably best mtb dvd out there	13:41
TomaszD	great heli shots	13:41
Shapeshifter	an operator without edge - never again :(	13:41
tybollt	NEVARH!111	13:41
tybollt	Shapeshifter: so try an operator w/out gsm... :-\|	13:41
Shapeshifter	there's such a thing?	13:42
Shapeshifter	3G only?	13:42
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: Did you consider that shaving 1.8kg off you may be cheaper?	13:42
hrw	heh...	13:43
crashanddie	SpeedEvil: eh?	13:43
* SpeedEvil does not know crashanddie's BMI.		13:43
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crashanddie	cheaper?	13:43
SpeedEvil	http://qkwv.com/weight.gif	13:43
hrw	nokia told that that leaked image is not final pr1.2 - ok, I am fine with it. But why it has newer packages then official PR1.2 sdk has?	13:43
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: diet	13:44
Stskeeps	hrw: might be updates for sdk, to	13:44
Stskeeps	o	13:44
crashanddie	SpeedEvil: that's 1.8kg off the weight of my bike	13:44
petteri	or it is never than the official	13:44
crashanddie	not mine	13:44
Shapeshifter	... why does microb always have to flash white for a second when switching to it.	13:44
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: yes, I know.	13:44
crashanddie	SpeedEvil: I don't get what you're trying to say	13:44
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: I'm just commenting that it may be cheaper to reduce your own weight rather than spending exponentially more reducing the weight of the bike. (however - that may not be possible)	13:45
crashanddie	SpeedEvil: oh, right	13:45
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hrw	petteri: anyway we do not know and will never got proper answer	13:46
TomaszD	heh, well, it's more expensive to shed bike weight, but instantenous and stable :)	13:46
crashanddie	SpeedEvil: well, they were improvements that really changed the handling of the bike, it's not really about speed or ease of pushing, it's just that getting the right equipment shaved off weight as well as change the bike's behaviour	13:46
achipa	hrw: simple - it's not the official PR1.2 SDK. It is/was an early access PR1.2 SDK	13:46
ShadowJK	Shapeshifter, I'm suffering second order effects from that bug. I expect every app to flash white before they start working after switching to them. Then I stand and stare stupidly waiting for the flash that never come, thinking the app died.	13:46
crashanddie	SpeedEvil: for example, getting much lighter tyres made the bike a lot more nimble and agile (less rotation inertia on the wheel, very important factor)	13:47
Shapeshifter	ShadowJK: oh dear	13:47
X-Fade	SDK always gets updates to align with actual firmware releases.	13:47
Shapeshifter	except this time	13:47
crashanddie	SpeedEvil: also, getting the SPD pedals allow me to have better footing, grip and pull when required, compared to the flat pedals I had before, while still shaving off 300gr per pedal	13:47
Shapeshifter	where it exploded	13:47
ShadowJK	besides, how many new features will there be that would break the sdk :)	13:47
X-Fade	Will happen for PR1.2 too.	13:47
achipa	except when it doesn't ;)	13:47
TomaszD	crashanddie, oh yes, I have super light tubes, which made a bit of a difference, tires are lighter than previous ones as well	13:47
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SpeedEvil	crashanddie: yes - I know - unsprung vs sprung, and it's not quite that simple.	13:48
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crashanddie	TomaszD: yeah, the tyres that came with the bike had these metal rings to keep them in shape, the new maxxis ones are a lot lighter, a lot thiner, and I probably lost roughly 400gr per tyre, which is really a massive difference, considering the tyres are the parts that move the fastest on a bike	13:48
TomaszD	crashanddie, the big apples have kevlar sides instead of steel woven like my mtb ones, much lighter :) but still heavy tires in comparison to others	13:49
SpeedEvil	So - will the SDK default to 1.3, when 1.2 comes out?	13:49
viliny__	im not a native english speaker, is tyres the plural for tire?	13:49
SpeedEvil	viliny__: yes	13:49
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: No	13:49
tybollt	crashanddie: btw, mtb is where your nick comes from? >:)	13:49
crashanddie	tybollt: well, i'm still around, so i guess not	13:49
viliny__	aight, thanks you SpeedEvil :)	13:50
TomaszD	tybollt, he's getting ready for the inevitable	13:50
TomaszD	then he'll be like "I told you so!"	13:50
tybollt	crashanddie: ;)	13:50
* Shapeshifter on a downhill bike would certainly crashanddie		13:50
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tybollt	yeah, at 82 kgs on a 180 body, I would too =)	13:50
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achipa	doesn't the tire/tyre thing have a en_US/en_GB aspect, too ?	14:01
crashanddie	aye	14:02
crashanddie	tyre = UK, tire = US	14:02
tybollt	the debate makes me very tired...	14:02
crashanddie	tyred?	14:02
tybollt	>:)	14:02
achipa	tired = ran over by tyres	14:02
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tybollt	tyred = got ran over by tyrel sprewell?	14:03
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X-Fade	achipa: Can you explain why this happens? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/midgard-python_10.05.0-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt	14:04
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X-Fade	achipa: It seems to look for setuptools for 2.3?	14:04
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Tuukka	Man, what was ~ham again...	14:07
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Tuukka	~ham	14:07
infobot	methinks ham is oink oink. Hildon Application Manager. Hazardous Application Manager	14:07
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achipa	X-Fade: but... why doesn't it simple depend on python-setuptools ?	14:07
achipa	s/simple/simply/	14:08
infobot	achipa meant: X-Fade: but... why doesn't it simply depend on python-setuptools ?	14:08
X-Fade	achipa: It does build-depend on it.	14:08
pupnik_	cell phone radios should be able to do p2p/mesh	14:08
pupnik_	seriously. lets do that	14:08
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achipa	hm... weird, should not go for pypy if it already has it there	14:08
MohammadAG\|ZzZ	actually	14:09
MohammadAG\|ZzZ	why are you packaging it like that	14:09
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MohammadAG	use py2deb or pypackager	14:09
X-Fade	It is a not me, and it is being packaged for a lot of distros.	14:10
achipa	X-Fade: and anyway, why is it going for python 2.3 ?	14:10
achipa	X-Fade: seems to be some scratchbox python version futz	14:10
X-Fade	achipa: There is python 2.3 in the sdk, because some backend tool uses it.	14:10
MohammadAG	echo 4 >debian/compat <-- first time i see this being done tbh	14:10
X-Fade	But if you check te root log, you see 2.5 being installed.	14:11
MohammadAG	set version in Build-Depends:	14:11
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Piotras	hi	14:12
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X-Fade	MohammadAG: --> Piotras ;)	14:12
X-Fade	He's the one making the mess.	14:13
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achipa	X-Fade: yeah, force it to 2.5, it should not deal with 2.3 even if it IS in the SDK for some reason	14:13
Piotras	achipa, how to force?	14:13
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achipa	Piotras: XS-Python-Version in the control file, at least that's it for debian...	14:14
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Piotras	achipa, I have pyversions file which should be taken into account	14:15
achipa	Piotras: yes, that too... what does your pyversions say ?	14:16
Piotras	2.4-	14:16
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Piotras	achipa, are you sure both should exist?	14:16
Piotras	achipa, http://osdir.com/ml/debian-python/2009-09/msg00045.html	14:16
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achipa	Piotras: no, not simultaneously, too as in 'that can define python versions, too'	14:17
Piotras	achipa, so how that line should look like?	14:18
achipa	though my pyversions in scratchbox only says python2.5...	14:18
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achipa	Still seems to me that there is a script/line there that just blindly calls 'python' and that starts the scratchbox host python, not the maemo one	14:19
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Psi	hi, is there a way to reset the datacounter from the commandline?	14:21
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SpeedEvil	I vaguely recall that you can screw with gconf	14:22
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Piotras	achipa, I rules file I have:	14:24
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Piotras	for python in $(PYVERS); do $$python ....	14:24
Piotras	so it's clearly pyversions issue IMO	14:24
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achipa	Piotras: but how does your pyversions file look like ?	14:25
achipa	ah	14:25
achipa	sry	14:25
MohammadAG	then version the dependencies	14:25
achipa	Piotras: but why 2.4- ?	14:25
achipa	(do we even have a 2.4 ?)	14:26
Piotras	achipa, I do not remember atm, I think I had read some debian-python howto and did like this	14:26
Piotras	achipa, it says ignore < 2.4	14:26
achipa	yes, I know, should be 2.5-, though (not that it matters in this particular case)	14:27
achipa	Piotras: hey...	14:28
achipa	Piotras: cd . && python setup.py clean -a	14:28
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achipa	Piotras: do you do this from rules or is this from some debhelper ?	14:28
tybollt	hmm anyway you get all nationalities and all sorts in this kind of forum...	14:29
Piotras	achipa, what exactly ?	14:29
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tybollt	but I olways wondered why there were no greek folks around here...	14:29
achipa	Piotras: cd . && python setup.py clean -a	14:29
tybollt	Guess now I know :)	14:29
achipa	i can see this in the build log	14:29
achipa	and that's wrong	14:29
achipa	should be cd . && python2.5 setup.py clean -a	14:29
achipa	(and python2.5 from there on everywhere)	14:29
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Piotras	achipa, it doesn't come from rules file	14:30
achipa	that particular line is generated by dh_clean I think, so you get broken somewhere before that	14:30
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Piotras	achipa, http://friendpaste.com/3cJ3Kd9yZNmiuwF8su8Pk3	14:31
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achipa	Piotras: can you pastebin the whole rules file ?	14:32
Piotras	achipa, http://friendpaste.com/3ytvmENMDznzAXfRiu9Sdl	14:34
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markinfo	i have paired n810 with my debian desktop. But in Blueman there are no Bluetooth profiles listed. There is only "send file" How can be browsed the data local on n810?	15:04
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E0x	markinfo: hmmm	15:08
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E0x	i never work with any bluetooth things in linux but maybe	15:09
E0x	this help	15:09
E0x	http://blueman-project.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=80	15:09
E0x	look like need obex	15:10
X-Fade	achipa: I think I fixed part of your version issue with abiword package removal in bug #10113	15:12
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10113 New ARMEL version of application is removed from the repository a few hours later	15:12
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Piotras	achipa, ideas?	15:12
achipa	Piotras: sorry, dropped out for a while due to power issues, did you paste the rules file ?	15:13
Piotras	achipa, http://friendpaste.com/3ytvmENMDznzAXfRiu9Sdl	15:14
achipa	X-Fade: (Y)	15:14
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markinfo	Problem is - there are no bluetooth services offered on n810. On my Phone are Serial ports, Obex etc.	15:16
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markinfo	Is it necessary to configure it somewhere on n810?	15:16
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markinfo	How to make a bluetooth connection with desktop PC? equipped with Bluetooth dongle?	15:19
markinfo	from n810	15:19
E0x	markinfo: check this	15:20
E0x	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=12301	15:20
E0x	look like the n810 have some BT FTP server missing	15:21
E0x	so you can't browse file on it	15:21
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E0x	markinfo: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3010	15:22
povbot	Bug 3010: Provide FTP Bluetooth interface (OBEX FTP server)	15:22
E0x	Closing as FIXED in Fremantle (Maemo5), WONTFIX for Maemo4.	15:22
X-Fade	Propose it for the community SSU ;)	15:23
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markinfo	"WONTFIX for Maemo4" very nice .... As I do not like n900 - is too small and too expensive.	15:26
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markinfo	what is "comunity SSU" ?	15:27
SpeedEvil	markinfo: I thought it would be too small too - it surprised.	15:27
SpeedEvil	markinfo: I can't argue with the other part.	15:27
andre__	markinfo: updates for Diablo from the community, as Nokia is unlikely to ship updates	15:27
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achipa	Piotras: re again, shouldn't DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM := pysupport be DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pysupport ?	15:31
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achipa	other than that, no idea really, somewhere in the cdbs bowels the wrong python gets picked. You could force the proper python through envvars, but that's kind of cludgy	15:33
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markinfo	is planned by Nokia something similar like n810 (mini Tablet) but with stronger CPU and maybe GSM modul?	15:35
Scelt	markinfo: what are you talking about mister?	15:35
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markinfo	n900 is in classical Phone Dimensions - but something like n8xx Tabet was.	15:36
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GeneralAntilles	markinfo, who do you think we would know the answer to that question? :)	15:37
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Piotras	achipa, let me try this	15:42
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RST38h	<yawn> PR1.2? <yawn>	15:43
X-Fade	/kb RST38h	15:43
X-Fade	Oh, damn ;)	15:43
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* satmd throws a cookie in RST38h's gaping mouth		15:43
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mece	posted a thread about my magically awesome shopping list app: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=647980	15:53
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E0x	mece: which lenguage ?	15:55
chem\|st	mece: is it in extras yet?	15:55
E0x	python ?	15:55
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mece	pyside currently. moving to c++ when I get things setup.	15:56
chem\|st	I guess not... could you please edit your post to make aware of the issues you might have with testing or devel stuff?	15:56
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mece	chem\|st, it's pyside so it wound get to extras before I make it using something that is actually installable I guess.	15:56
mece	it's in devel	15:56
E0x	i am looking do some app and i suck in programing so maybe i will use python	15:56
E0x	because i think c++ is too much for me	15:57
E0x	:D	15:57
mece	I use python because I can do it comfortably directly on the phone	15:57
RST38h	Is t.m.o finally dead or what?	15:57
mece	updating post.	15:57
E0x	t.m.o ?	15:57
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mece	tmo is working just fine. what do you mean RST38h?	15:57
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chem\|st	RST38h: dead in which meaning of the word?? d.e.a.d.?	15:58
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Piotras	achipa, it didn't help, but I think it's not package issue	15:58
Piotras	achipa, https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/midgard-python_10.05.0-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt	15:58
Piotras	there's : cd . && python setupy.py	15:59
Termana	I think he means dead as in, theres more noise than signal	15:59
Piotras	which implicitly invokes python2.3 I assume	15:59
achipa	Piotras: that's what I'm saying - the debhelpers use python 2.3, that's the problem	16:00
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mece	chem\|st, is that explanation sufficient, or should the devel part be in the title?	16:02
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alterego	You know, as phones have been capable of doing more and more over the years, more and more people have been complaining that they do less-and-less.	16:16
alterego	I remember having a phone about 10 years ago, that didn't even have any games	16:16
Piotras	achipa, I included 2.3 egg file in package, so error is gone	16:17
alterego	It had a two lines b/w LCD backlit display, which was about 10characters wide.	16:17
Piotras	achipa, however there's still 2.3 issue: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/midgard-python_10.05.0-1/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt	16:17
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Piotras	no one builds python modules for fremantle?	16:18
kht_n900	hi !	16:18
Piotras	bbl	16:18
kht_n900	piotras, depends on modules	16:18
kht_n900	if u need a module made in python i can do it	16:18
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kht_n900	someone have successfull use ptunnel on maemo ?	16:19
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lardman	hmm	16:20
lardman	what's up here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52101&page=2	16:20
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lardman	Optimus has 1 post, which I'm looking at, but apparently has been thanked 31 times	16:20
lardman	but not here, so where?	16:20
lardman	or am I just going mad?	16:20
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Stskeeps	lardman: probably a lot of moves from normal -> off topic?	16:21
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lardman	ah, in which case the thanks metrics need to be recalculated I imagine	16:21
nid0	looks like a fault somewhere, if you look at his actual posts he has 107	16:21
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lardman	anyway sorry for the random aside :)	16:22
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eikkka	hello, is anyone here very knowledgeable of Jabber? :) I'm wondering if I could add facebook chat through jabber to my n900, without having that annoying "Jabber Call" (which doesnt even work) on every contact.	16:37
C-S-B	Theres no app that allows incoming call/sms etc info to be displayed on my linux laptop is there?	16:38
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E0x	eikkka: jabber call ?	16:44
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eikkka	E0x: yeah, my contacts have two jabber buttons on them now for some reason :/	16:45
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eikkka	Jabber Call and Jabber IM	16:45
E0x	oh	16:46
eikkka	i assume the call is for VoIP	16:46
E0x	is because jabber support voip	16:46
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eikkka	yeah, but i use jabber only for facebook chat so i'd kinda want to get rid of that button, but is it possible?	16:46
E0x	you can't remove that	16:46
eikkka	aw, too bad :/	16:46
E0x	that is part of jabber	16:46
eikkka	already misclicked it 3 times today	16:46
petteri	i think you get one jabber call per jabber contact. It is stupid because if the contacs jabber client supports call it will advertise it	16:46
E0x	eikkka: is not your fault , look like that facebook expose that feature	16:47
E0x	and the client detect it	16:47
eikkka	right	16:47
E0x	even if is not working	16:47
PerfDave	Surely that depends on which Jabber client you use?	16:47
eikkka	i use just the default protocol that n900 has	16:47
E0x	PerfDave: not exactly	16:47
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PerfDave	I mean, bitlbee doesnt' give me any Jabber Call stuff with Facebook chat :)	16:48
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E0x	PerfDave: because the client dont support it	16:48
E0x	is because both	16:48
E0x	client and server	16:48
eikkka	hmm, while i'm at it, i noticed another issue today (my phone contract activated so i got my 3G broadband etc), it seems that i started getting some weird network errors for my IM accounts	16:48
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eikkka	the jabber facebook one and MSN (if using either Haze or Pecan)	16:49
E0x	in wifi happen ?	16:49
E0x	maybe is some issue of the service	16:49
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eikkka	didnt happen before, no	16:49
eikkka	tried in wifi today as well and it didnt really connect to MSN with it either	16:49
eikkka	but now that i got home from work it seems to work fine with 3G	16:50
eikkka	both of them	16:50
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eikkka	which one of the MSN protocols you guys prefer?	16:50
E0x	if you need proxy look like not work	16:50
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E0x	i am no a msn user	16:51
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PhonicUK	Hey all	16:51
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PhonicUK	anyone tried a 32GB MicroSD card in their N900?	16:51
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dhq	PR1.2 on june 7th	16:55
tybollt	url to back that up or kick	16:55
dhq	no got info	16:55
dhq	on maemotalk	16:55
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E0x	dhq: hmm	16:55
X-Fade	Oh, then it must be true ;)	16:55
dhq	lol	16:55
* X-Fade looks on the server. No, not there.		16:55
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* tybollt gives dhq a bunch of lithium pills to deal w/ the voices in his head...		16:56
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Viliny_on_N900	hey!	16:57
achipa	Piotras: avoid 2.3, that won't help you, honestly, you need to find a way to force python2.5 - even if you get it to build with 2.3, it won't work on the devices	16:57
Viliny_on_N900	i did some apt-get upgrading and something under/stock clocked me	16:57
dhq	tybollt: lithium pills	16:57
Viliny_on_N900	from lehtos 900	16:57
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* GAN900 is bored of rebooting		16:58
tybollt	dhq: http://www.drugs.com/lithium.html	16:58
Viliny_on_N900	you think it's the scaling file that got overwitten?	16:58
GAN900	Nokia: We turned Linux into Windows 98!	16:58
dhq	lol	16:59
Viliny_on_N900	gan don't be bitter, embrace it	16:59
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* tybollt find GAN's appearances around here utterly refreshing...		16:59
tybollt	Just a tad less faboism...	16:59
tybollt	fan*	16:59
Dima_Sharihin	GAN900, have you ever seen BSOD on N900?	16:59
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chem\|st	PhonicUK: someone did when the device was in preproduction state and it did work	17:01
PhonicUK	cool	17:01
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dhq	Dima_Sharihin: ive seen the nokia logo at regular intervals so that must be like BSoD	17:01
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tybollt	Dima_Sharihin: that is true... I never had me a kernel panic()	17:01
PhonicUK	also whats the name of the alternate OS instead of Maemo?	17:01
PhonicUK	the one thats mostly pure debian	17:01
MohammadAG	Mer	17:01
aquatix	Mer	17:01
PhonicUK	ty	17:01
PhonicUK	I wanna boot Mer off a MicroSD :)	17:01
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GAN900	Dima_Sharihin, well, I've had some weird reboots.	17:02
chem\|st	PhonicUK: well you dont need 32GB for that	17:02
MohammadAG	kernel panics on maemo?	17:02
PhonicUK	i know, atm I only have a little 2GB thing	17:02
Dima_Sharihin	GAN900, why you have installed Win98 on this wonderful device?	17:02
PhonicUK	and I want extra storage too	17:02
* timeless_mbp thought mer was almost pure ubuntu		17:02
PhonicUK	no Mer is almost pure Debian	17:02
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PhonicUK	Ubuntu is just a debian based distro	17:02
MohammadAG	timeless_mbp, it is	17:02
MohammadAG	Ubuntu 9.04 to be specific	17:03
GAN900	tybollt, well, let me balance it out: Maemo is the greatest thing since sliced bread.	17:03
MohammadAG	with hildon-desktop slapped on top	17:03
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* timeless_mbp waits for one of PhonicUK / MohammadAG to kill the other		17:03
GAN900	It changed my life. :P	17:03
chem\|st	PhonicUK: full blown desktop install from linux mint is about 1.6gb	17:03
PhonicUK	I know but I want additional storage too :P	17:03
PhonicUK	as well as somewhere to install Mer	17:03
* MohammadAG slaps PhonicUK with a large trout		17:03
tybollt	GAN900: meh :-\|	17:03
pupnik_	is mint good for vudeo?	17:03
* PhonicUK blinds MohammadAG with the flash from his N900		17:03
pupnik_	video	17:04
* MohammadAG is immune to that		17:04
GAN900	tybollt, c'mon, this is the mobile computer revolution.	17:04
chem\|st	arent we all a bit debian?	17:04
* MohammadAG takes out a Javelin		17:04
GAN900	It may have its warts, but it's going to change how people use computers forever.	17:04
* MohammadAG locks on PhonicUK		17:04
* PhonicUK turns invisible		17:04
tybollt	GAN900: ja, but just because I liove maemo doesn't mean I bend over for Nokia =)	17:04
* timeless_mbp loves to hate debian		17:04
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chem\|st	pupnik_: it is good for any netbook afaik, are you looking for playback or transcoding?	17:05
PhonicUK	Does 3G work in Mer/	17:05
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* MohammadAG traceroutes PhonicUK's IP		17:05
GAN900	tybollt, who's bending over for Nokia?	17:05
* PhonicUK is at work :P		17:06
chem\|st	~trout PhonicUK	17:06
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chem\|st	~blame chem\|st	17:06
* MohammadAG locks on PhonicUK and fires		17:07
PhonicUK	attack failed	17:07
tybollt	GAN900: I'm not saying anyone does...	17:07
MohammadAG	~bomb PhonicUK	17:07
* PhonicUK is in an underground bomb shelter		17:08
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PhonicUK	http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/dual-booting-mer-on-nokia-n900.html awesome	17:08
chem\|st	MohammadAG: I thought the bot will not miss him but w/o bot there is no hit...	17:08
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* MohammadAG provokes the underground volcano		17:08
PhonicUK	oshit	17:08
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chem\|st	PhonicUK: blue or red pill?	17:09
PhonicUK	Underground volcano, meet above ground glacier!	17:09
PhonicUK	chem\|st, crush them both up and snort the purple powder	17:09
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PhonicUK	http://xkcd.com/566/	17:09
namus	How to avoid screensaving in N900? it is not comfortable while studying PDf's	17:09
joga	in the settings	17:09
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joga	oh, sorry, there's no 'never' option	17:10
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joga	there's probably some workaround then	17:10
alterego	Hope the next Maemo/MeeGo Nokia device has HDMI and USB host	17:10
alterego	Preferably capable of 1080p ^.6	17:11
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MohammadAG	it will	17:11
X-Fade	At least there are Nokia devices with hdmi now.	17:11
* MohammadAG looks at the non flagship N8		17:11
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alterego	Yeah, way ahead of the game there. I can't believe more people aren't that interested in phones with HDMI ^.^	17:11
PhonicUK	Its annoying how nokia keep making basically the same phone over and over again	17:11
PhonicUK	same hardware and OS, just tweaks like a better camera and video out	17:11
MohammadAG	hardware?	17:12
PhonicUK	but still not enough RAM, crappy CPU and no 3D	17:12
chem\|st	namus: the app for easy backlight changing has a button for always on	17:12
alterego	PhonicUK: it's about pricing points.	17:12
X-Fade	alterego: DLNA is more interesting if connected over wireless connections though ;)	17:12
MohammadAG	it's the first Symbian devices from Nokia that has ARM11	17:12
MohammadAG	i miss my N95's home server feature	17:12
PhonicUK	I wish the N97 had a 3D chip like the N95	17:12
PhonicUK	that would have rocked	17:12
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MohammadAG	the N97 was a big big fail	17:13
PhonicUK	the only reason i still have mine is for spotify	17:13
PhonicUK	and a couple of really good games on it	17:13
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MohammadAG	despotify...	17:13
alterego	Nokia offer you a choice, they say, you can sacrifice having the best camera, if you prefer playing music, and we'll give you more storage. Or if you want a kick ass camera, and you don't want maemo ... ^.^	17:13
alterego	I've got an N96 ..	17:13
PhonicUK	MohammadAG, none of them have offline support	17:13
PhonicUK	must-have feature for me	17:13
alterego	I don't think that was as much fail as the N97	17:13
Appiah	Will PR 1.2 support more profiles or shold you just use "tweakr" ?	17:13
MohammadAG	oh	17:13
MohammadAG	tweakr	17:13
alterego	Until the N900, the N95 8G was the best phone I've had.	17:13
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Dima_Sharihin	Pr1.2....oh shi-- =)	17:14
PhonicUK	I had a 6150 Flip before the N97	17:14
* Dima_Sharihin have Nokia 7610 :-P		17:14
joga	heh I still have an ngage qd somewhere...talk about fail	17:14
alterego	The N96 is fucking awful, even with the latest firmware, and no apps installed :(	17:14
* chem\|st got tweakr installed and does not use the profiles stuff...		17:14
MohammadAG	I truely miss the N95, it had a superior camera	17:15
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alterego	My girlfriend uses it as a 3G modem, and it's constantly restarting itself.	17:15
MohammadAG	as well as the N86, but there was nothing new in it	17:15
alterego	Thinking about it, maybe there's a memory leak in the connection management/tethering code in Symbian ;)	17:15
chem\|st	I miss the simpleness of my phone just serving up as USB network device	17:16
tybollt	alterego: I'd like to think so yes	17:16
tybollt	alterego: I used it as 36 modem the other day	17:16
MiXu-	I'm selling an N900. Is reflashing the easiest way to clear all the data?	17:16
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tybollt	and even when sitting perfectly still for >30 minutes it'd restart all the bloody time	17:17
Dima_Sharihin	MiXu-, yes	17:17
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alterego	tybollt: not just mine then, that's good to know :/	17:17
PhonicUK	man imagine 64GB of storage in an N900...	17:17
tybollt	alterego: :-/ sorry	17:17
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, I'll do that in a bit	17:17
MohammadAG	or a year	17:17
alterego	tybollt: it's not your fault the phone is crap :)	17:17
alterego	Takes good pictures though ^.^	17:17
alterego	And the storage is good.	17:17
chem\|st	PhonicUK: I got 1TB when ever I have wifi...	17:17
tybollt	alterego: computer I was using att the time has windows 7 installed - I kind of guessed the problem lied there - rather than on phone	17:18
PhonicUK	That said, I've not used 32GB yet	17:18
alterego	That's the only reason why I bought it, I thought it'd be a better N95 8G.	17:18
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PhonicUK	will do soon tho, my N900 has taken on the job of torrent box :)	17:18
alterego	Turns out it's just hideously unreliable, and for no good reason as far as I can tell ..	17:18
MohammadAG	chem\|st, If that's how you want to put it I have 2TBs :P	17:18
chem\|st	and even with 3G I can stream music from my server...	17:18
PhonicUK	chem\|st, doesn't beat my 4GB RAID array ;)	17:18
PhonicUK	eeeeh	17:18
PhonicUK	TB rather...	17:18
alterego	tybollt: my girlfriend uses my ubuntu 9.10 netbook :/	17:18
MohammadAG	RAID is overrated	17:19
tybollt	alterego: uhuh	17:19
PhonicUK	my mirror raid recently saved my ass :\|	17:19
PhonicUK	one of the hard drives died	17:19
MohammadAG	revive it	17:19
alterego	PhonicUK: how many drives?	17:19
Appiah	huh	17:19
* MohammadAG guesses 4		17:19
chem\|st	well in case of hardware its a good idea to mirror but no help with a corrupting filesystem	17:19
PhonicUK	you guess correctly	17:19
Appiah	guess tweakr couldnt do the job...	17:19
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MohammadAG	:P	17:20
PhonicUK	have you guys ever seen my rig?	17:20
* tybollt <3 tweakr		17:20
PhonicUK	its the size of a small dishwasher	17:20
alterego	PhonicUK: well, if you're going to buy 4 drives, you've got a higher chance of one failing :P	17:20
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PhonicUK	http://www.flickr.com/photos/phonicuk/sets/72157604642472044/	17:20
tybollt	PhonicUK: your "rig" is the size of a small dishwasher???	17:20
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PhonicUK	see link	17:20
chem\|st	alterego: true	17:20
tybollt	kids and their euphemisms these days....	17:20
MohammadAG	alterego, HDDs fail following a Poisson distribution :P	17:20
PhonicUK	thats my main machine	17:20
MohammadAG	-ing	17:21
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alterego	That looks, quite insane :P	17:21
PhonicUK	my machine?	17:21
alterego	PhonicUK: what CPU/mem you got?	17:21
PhonicUK	AMD Phenom 9850BE @ 3.3GHz (Stock 2.5), 4GB OCZ SLi Edition PC6400 (CAS-3-2-3)	17:22
alterego	That's 4 times the size of mine ...	17:22
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, add... more... LEDs	17:22
PhonicUK	MohammadAG, have done since I took the pic	17:22
alterego	That's 4 times the size and not even that much more powerful :P	17:22
PhonicUK	its got 2 LED tubes which flash patterns	17:22
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, readapt my script for them	17:22
PhonicUK	lol	17:22
* tybollt pics up the coolant fluid		17:22
PhonicUK	its got 2x 8800GTX OC2s :)	17:22
PhonicUK	and a 1000W PSU	17:22
tybollt	CHEERS BOYS - BOTTOMS UP	17:22
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alterego	I bet there's a lot of space in that case and a gerbil in a wheel identical to the one in mine :P	17:22
PhonicUK	I built this a couple of years ago now	17:23
PhonicUK	its very easy to work with	17:23
PhonicUK	not much free space though	17:23
alterego	Ooo, I'd like to do some parallel processing on those graphics cards ;)	17:23
PhonicUK	liquid cooling takes up a fair amount of space	17:23
PhonicUK	alterego, are you coming onto me?!	17:23
alterego	I've not tried CUDA or OpenCL in a machine with multiple cards.	17:23
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PhonicUK	lol	17:23
PhonicUK	alterego, It's mostly for nVidia 3D vision	17:23
PhonicUK	works much better in SLi mode	17:23
trip900	anyone having issues sync'ing with google cal?	17:23
PhonicUK	1 eye per card	17:24
alterego	trip900: yes, I completely disagree with it, google are evil.	17:24
trip900	all of the sudden it wont sync	17:24
PhonicUK	you actually get better 3D performance than having 1x twice as powerful card	17:24
MiXu-	I suppose in scandinavia you'd use the Global release when flashing?	17:24
PhonicUK	GTA IV in 3D is...	17:24
PhonicUK	interesting	17:24
PhonicUK	the strip clubs are weird in 3D :\	17:24
trip900	alterego: googles fault?	17:25
alterego	trip900: it was a joke, of which you obviously don't see :) I don't actually use google calendar sorry :)	17:25
trip900	oh heh	17:26
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alterego	It's okay, probably wasn't that funny anyway :P	17:26
trip900	understandable tho ;)	17:27
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* alterego thinks facebook should have just published that chat security hole as a group chat feature.		17:28
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achipa	alterego: omap3 doesn't do 1080p officially, afaik	17:38
alterego	I know	17:38
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Khertan_	Hi all !	17:40
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alterego	Hey Khertan_	17:41
Khertan_	heya alterego !	17:41
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Dima_Sharihin	achipa, but ARM Cortex-A8 can show 720p video	17:42
achipa	Dima_Sharihin: cortex-A8 != OMAP3	17:42
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trip900	solution to sync is to create a new calendar	17:42
Dima_Sharihin	Oh, sorry =]	17:42
trip900	fyi	17:42
achipa	Dima_Sharihin: the video decode is done by a DSP or dedicated video chip, not the core, so ARM11, A8, A9, doesn't really matter that much	17:43
trip900	depends on the codec no?	17:44
zokier	yes	17:44
achipa	trip900: 1080p is de facto h264	17:44
Dima_Sharihin	thanks. Most codecs are supported by hardware	17:44
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Dima_Sharihin	For example, via chipsets have hardware support of h.264, mpeg-4 etc =)	17:45
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achipa	the point is, with 1080p resolutions and data rates, no core will manage a decent frame rate	17:46
tybollt	ugh	17:46
tybollt	video	17:46
tybollt	fucking scary shit	17:46
achipa	hell, even Atoms choke on purely SW 1080p decoders	17:46
tybollt	did you guys read the piece on video and how the mpeg-la pwns us all - even the ogg(theora shitz?	17:46
omar	does the top command report cpu usage when? system power on?	17:47
Dima_Sharihin	achipa, how you want to see 1080p on 800x480 display???	17:47
zokier	h264 has several levels and profiles, and hardware decoders usually support only a subset of those	17:47
achipa	Dima_Sharihin: the orignal talk was that of a HDMI out on a successor	17:47
tybollt	achipa: ja - god knows the current v/out is a POS. :-)	17:48
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* Khertan_ would not like a hdmi only device ... i didn't want to change my tv ... which didn't support hdmi		17:50
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achipa	Khertan_: well, if the N8 is anything to go by, we'll have both	17:51
Khertan_	achipa: ah ... n8 has both ?	17:52
SpeedEvil	tybollt: yes. :/	17:52
achipa	Khertan_: yep, the hdmi is just in addition to the 4-pin Nokia plug	17:52
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tybollt	Khertan_: of course I'd wanted HDMI	17:52
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tybollt	so what?	17:52
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tybollt	just because you don't have a HDMO capable TV/screen doesn't mean I should suffer :)	17:53
tybollt	HDMI	17:53
alterego	:D	17:53
chem\|st	tybollt: for dolby surround not for the video ;)	17:53
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alterego	On a related note, how do I drive the TV-Out from say, a gstreamer pipeline?	17:53
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MohammadAG	Aren't there USB graphics cards?	17:53
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: yes	17:53
Khertan_	tybollt: just because you bought a useless hdmi tv ... i should suffer	17:53
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: this would require usb host working.	17:53
achipa	alterego: as in NOT clone mode ?	17:53
MohammadAG	USB host mode would help then	17:53
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: also slow	17:54
MohammadAG	slow?	17:54
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: 12 megabytes/second is a very slow video bus	17:54
MohammadAG	Was expecting HDMI...	17:54
alterego	achipa: exactly.	17:54
SpeedEvil	err - 48	17:54
SpeedEvil	well - 30 more like really	17:54
MohammadAG	even with a powered hub?	17:54
achipa	Khertan_: though, there is a caveat - the N8 might have both because they come from separate sources - the composite from the ARM, and hdmi from the broadcom chip	17:54
MohammadAG	though i'm assuming that's required...	17:54
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alterego	MohammadAG: having a powered hub isn't going to make the USB bus faster :P	17:55
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alterego	Does anyone have issues transfering large files via USB storage emulation to their N900?	17:55
Khertan_	alterego: could you define large ?	17:55
alterego	I've had to revert to usb networking and scp because copies fail half way through.	17:55
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alterego	Khertan_: well, I can't even transfer a single ~350M file ..	17:55
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MohammadAG	lol i know, but drawing 200mA for a GFX card wil either: 1) make it not work 2) run slowly	17:55
Khertan_	alterego: ah ... i didn't have problem to put on it some vm image	17:56
Khertan_	so around 1,5 Go	17:56
Khertan_	so around 1,5 Gb	17:56
Khertan_	;)	17:56
MohammadAG	Copied a 2GB file in 30 seconds	17:56
alterego	Hrm, I might have to look into my issue again then.	17:56
MohammadAG	meego-image to be more precise	17:56
Khertan_	MohammadAG: yes i found it amazing fast	17:56
tybollt	Khertan_: hdmi is useless?	17:56
* tybollt trouts Khertan_ :)		17:57
MohammadAG	yes, DVI FTW	17:57
Khertan_	tybollt: yes ... when you live in france and you don't want to paid 25Euro by month just for seeing star academy show in hd	17:57
* Khertan_ didn't have a hdmi projector		17:57
MohammadAG	technically they are similar though	17:57
alterego	http://www.maemonokian900.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/e69492f41aPR-1.2.jpg.jpg	17:57
* Khertan_ didn't have a hdmi tv		17:58
alterego	Love that pic	17:58
* Khertan_ didn't want to paid 25Euros by month for his satellite tv just for one or two movies in hd by month		17:58
Khertan_	:)	17:58
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Khertan_	and yes large plasma tv with a good rendering software render most of the time better than a low cheap hd tv	17:59
BCMM	alterego: we need a bot that pastes that link whenever pr1.2 is mentioned	17:59
* RST38h is ok with normal broadcastied tv		17:59
RST38h	not watching it anyway	17:59
Dima_Sharihin	Khertan, use torrents ;)	17:59
Khertan_	BCMM: it ll be kline in 1second	17:59
Khertan_	Dima_Sharihin: :)	17:59
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Khertan_	Dima_Sharihin: did you have a torrent for downloading a plasma hd tv ?	18:00
X-Fade	Dima_Sharihin: France is a 3-strikes country, so better now ;)	18:00
Shapeshifter	is it possible to have the terminal on the n900 launch in fullscreen by default?	18:00
alterego	Can someone tell me what the three framebuffer devices are on the N900?	18:00
X-Fade	*not	18:00
alterego	Presumable fb0 is the internal LCD ..	18:00
Khertan_	X-Fade: 3 strikes ?	18:00
Khertan_	X-Fade: i didn't understand	18:00
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X-Fade	Khertan_: You will be disconnected from the internet after 3 complaints of illegal downloading.	18:00
achipa	trucker strike, agricultural strike, downloader strike...	18:01
Dima_Sharihin	Khertan, there are over 9000 torrents with HD1080p videos in the I-net	18:01
Khertan_	X-Fade: ah ... that ... before they must agree on some law yet ... :)	18:01
Khertan_	X-Fade: it s far from beeing ready :)	18:01
Khertan_	i think you mean ... france is the country of strike ... worker strike	18:02
achipa	plus, it's bound to be more of a scare-law than a practical one. Nobody wants to lose customers...	18:02
Khertan_	so 3 will be too small number :)	18:02
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alterego	Okay, got it, fb0 is built in LCD and fb1 must be TV out	18:02
Khertan_	it s more 30% of 365 day by year :)	18:02
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achipa	the fun fact is that for a short while, we had a 3 strikes thing in Serbia	18:04
RST38h	achipa: And then they exiled you to Kosovo? =)	18:04
* RST38h pings wazd fiercely		18:04
achipa	RST38h: no, the only provider that actually tried to enforce it went nearly bankrupt	18:04
RST38h	achipa: Ahhahahaha	18:04
Dima_Sharihin	huh	18:04
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RST38h	achipa: You should have seen US frantically trying to shut down mp3search.ru ...	18:05
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alterego	I wonder if fb2 is the DVI port ^.^	18:05
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X-Fade	alterego: Get your soldering iron and try out ;)	18:06
achipa	alterego: and I thought fb2 is an ebook format... :D	18:06
alterego	Heh	18:06
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Piotras	achipa, how can I avoid python 2.3 if it's debhelper/builder which invokes it? :)	18:07
Dima_Sharihin	RST38h, are you from russia?	18:07
RST38h	Anyways, ttg	18:07
achipa	Piotras: debhelper gets the python interpreter from some envvar IIRC (set up by pyversion or whatever)	18:08
achipa	Piotras: so if you change that envvar manually, you should be able to coerce it to use 2.5	18:08
X-Fade	Piotras: debhelper (>= 5.0)	18:08
X-Fade	Piotras: Did you try that?	18:08
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achipa	but that is a kludge, I admit	18:08
MohammadAG	Piotras, python setup.py bdist_dumb then build it as a deb	18:08
achipa	MohammadAG: python2.5 setup.py	18:09
* wazd pongs		18:09
achipa	that's his problem :)	18:09
MohammadAG	python2.3 then	18:10
MohammadAG	python2.3 setup.py	18:10
Piotras	X-Fade, achipa: the same rules and control file worked few months ago	18:10
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achipa	Piotras: there was this SDK upgrade... XD	18:10
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Piotras	upgrade? from python 2.5 to python 2.3 ?	18:11
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X-Fade	Do we know any other packages using python-setuptools?	18:11
Piotras	X-Fade, all debian python stuff? :)	18:11
achipa	Piotras, X-Fade: maybe the old autobuilder had a python patch which is not there (like we lost the optify thing ?)	18:11
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MohammadAG	noor uses setup.py if you're interested	18:11
MohammadAG	but I used py2deb	18:12
achipa	I call python2.5 explicitly. Guilty as charged. But it works :)	18:12
alterego	Heh, got my N900 to use my laptops internet connection through usb0 :)	18:12
alterego	Much better :D	18:12
Piotras	achipa, I do call python2.5 explicitly too :)	18:12
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Shapeshifter	whats the difference between python and python2.5?	18:13
achipa	Shapeshifter: python is python2.3 inside scratchbox	18:13
achipa	(debian etch, etc, etc)	18:14
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tybollt	I find it very interesting that while E V E R Y O N E are talking about HD content yet still to play anything usefull you need to be on windows and on windows there's still only two or three programs in existence that can play the content... fooo	18:16
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BCMM	how is SIP with firewalls?	18:16
BCMM	my network doesn't give me a real IP address	18:16
BCMM	does that mean i can't receive calls on a SIP account?	18:16
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Shapeshifter	tybollt: ??	18:17
tybollt	bluray	18:17
tybollt	how'd you go about playing bluray on linux?	18:17
BCMM	also, is there a list somewhere of SIP providers that allow you to make calls to the normal telephone system	18:17
BCMM	?	18:17
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Dima_Sharihin	BCMM, use skype. It works beatiful with any types of proxy and NATs	18:17
Shapeshifter	tybollt: people still buy media stored on hardware?	18:18
Shapeshifter	discs suck	18:18
Shapeshifter	badly	18:18
BCMM	Dima_Sharihin: i know, but IIRC there are some SIP providers that are cheaper, and skype is philisophically objectionable in some ways	18:18
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tybollt	Shapeshifter: dun matter buddy, it's the same DRM	18:19
tybollt	ol over	18:19
Shapeshifter	tybollt: well looking at the development with music, its getting better actually	18:19
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Shapeshifter	people start to know what drm means and complain	18:19
tybollt	still	18:20
tybollt	I see movie in store - buy it	18:20
Shapeshifter	besides, most drmd music probably sucks	18:20
tybollt	and outside of HW bluray players there are two or tops three software on the planet capable of playing it	18:20
tybollt	sickening	18:20
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Dima_Sharihin	BCMM, iirc SIP is very simple protocol. Maybe better use Jabber VoIP extension?	18:21
Shapeshifter	yeah well. blueray isnt very popular	18:21
BCMM	there are ways to call real landlines from SIP, right?	18:21
BCMM	Dima_Sharihin: does the n900 do that?	18:21
BCMM	Dima_Sharihin: and are there services that let you call landlines	18:21
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Shapeshifter	if it gets more popular and lots of people realize theyre being fucked with there'll be improvement	18:21
Dima_Sharihin	BCMM, I don't know ^_^. But Google Talk is Jabber, and support video-calls =)	18:21
BCMM	Dima_Sharihin: i thought the n900 doesn't do video calls yet?	18:21
Dima_Sharihin	BCMM, doesn't do _skype_ video-calls	18:22
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BCMM	basically, i'm looking for a way to call landlines abroad cheaply, and the obv. answer is skype but they're kinda creepy	18:22
BCMM	i'll use skype if there is no other solution	18:22
SpeedEvil	Was ESD used in maemo 4?	18:23
lcuk	BCMM, theres phone providers that do cheap connections afaik	18:23
lcuk	you dial a prefix, then the number	18:23
lcuk	and it is rerouted	18:23
lcuk	works from any phone	18:23
BCMM	lcuk: probably not as cheap as skype	18:23
lcuk	and you get cheaper calls to countries?	18:23
lcuk	of course	18:23
lcuk	but you sound like you ruled out skype	18:23
X-Fade	Just search for sip provider on google, how hard can it be?	18:24
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chem\|st	BCMM: you just need to find a provider doing it (SIP)	18:25
BCMM	i'm mostly slipping up on the jargon	18:25
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BCMM	only just got that a provider that will connect you to real phones is a "termination provider"	18:26
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johnsq	Hi	18:26
BCMM	i presume there are also SIP providers that don't do that	18:26
chem\|st	BCMM: I got rid of t-com that way! I have internet and thats it, have a 'real' geolocated landline	18:26
BCMM	chem\|st: do you know how sip handles NAT? My phone network doesn't give me a global IP	18:26
BCMM	chem\|st: not sure i understand	18:27
chem\|st	BCMM: we tried that with both on edge and it worked...	18:27
PhonicUK	has anyone ever tried to run Angstrom on the N900?	18:27
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BCMM	chem\|st: still not entirely sure i understand	18:27
chem\|st	BCMM: where are you off?	18:28
BCMM	chem\|st: uh, again not sure i understand you	18:28
chem\|st	BCMM: you look for a sip provider from your country with cheap rates	18:28
BCMM	chem\|st: are you asking which part of the world i'm in?	18:28
BCMM	chem\|st: ah, well i'm looking for two things, maybe two accounts	18:28
chem\|st	no what u do not understand	18:28
BCMM	chem\|st: one for making cheap calls to the UK, another for cheap calls to belguim	18:29
chem\|st	BCMM: prepaid or contract?	18:29
BCMM	chem\|st: sip providers work like that?	18:29
BCMM	prepaid probably	18:29
BCMM	the bit i didn't understand was "we tried that with both on edge and it worked..."	18:29
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Khertan_	i ll go on ...	18:30
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Khertan_	and will try to connect later while tcpip over icmp :)	18:30
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chem\|st	BCMM: both at sipgate both connected with EDGE on different providers and we were able to call and talk in both directions	18:30
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chem\|st	BCMM: http://www.sipgate.co.uk/user/index.php	18:31
BCMM	chem\|st: but did your providers give you real IP addresses or NATted?	18:31
chem\|st	NATed	18:31
BCMM	chem\|st: oh, cool	18:31
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BCMM	do you know of a site which would list providers in order of how much they charge per minute to call belgium?	18:31
chem\|st	the phone does fine with NATed connections...	18:31
lcuk	we need system level accelometer calibration	18:32
chem\|st	BCMM: no but whats wrong with 2p?	18:32
SpeedEvil	lcuk: yes, yes we do.	18:32
BCMM	chem\|st: what is 2p?	18:32
chem\|st	2pence	18:32
lcuk	SpeedEvil, :)	18:32
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Accelerometer	18:33
BCMM	chem\|st: oh, as in 2p per minute?	18:33
chem\|st	pennies Ps the crap little buggers nothing worth	18:33
chem\|st	yep	18:33
BCMM	nothing reallyh	18:33
SpeedEvil	lcuk: You can rotate the phone slowly several times in random patterns - and then attempt to fit the resultant elipsoid to a unit sphere.	18:33
BCMM	2p a minute is, indeed, nothing really	18:33
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BCMM	lcuk: how would you do accel calibration? put the phone on the ground, and use a database of values of g in different parts of the world?	18:34
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: this gives you per-axis offset and scale. Also some info about cross-axis - but that's harder to pull out	18:34
SpeedEvil	BCMM: There are three accellerometers.	18:34
lcuk	BCMM, SpeedEvil for most uses, calibrating faceupfacedown would do	18:34
SpeedEvil	BCMM: the worst-case accuracy of these is +-10% per axis or so	18:34
SpeedEvil	lcuk: True	18:34
BCMM	SpeedEvil: hmm, and there is an edge the n900 will not balence on	18:34
lcuk	because of the camera bulge	18:35
lcuk	its more noticable	18:35
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lcuk	and especially how ive got a group of bubbles in a cloud on screen now	18:35
lcuk	and they are all fucking off to top left	18:35
zokier	screen down it balances fine :)	18:35
SpeedEvil	I have a clear plastic case	18:36
lcuk	i think gravity shifted tho	18:36
SpeedEvil	it balances lots better on its back, as tehre is a cutout	18:36
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chem\|st	BCMM: for google voice testing I signed up for a sip account in us and fwd via landlin-fwd	18:38
BCMM	chem\|st: does google voice call landlines?	18:38
chem\|st	BCMM: I would not do that again as a robot was calling me once a day, turned it of though	18:39
Dima_Sharihin	BCMM, google it :D iirc in america it is possible	18:39
BCMM	do SIP providers typically provide free calls to other SIP providers?	18:40
chem\|st	BCMM: googleV is a garbage collector for phone lines, you need at least one valid landline number to get it working and the beta was/is US only	18:40
BCMM	and does anybody support SIP -> Skype calls?	18:40
crashanddie	no	18:41
chem\|st	BCMM: for SIP to SIP you need a provider doing actual SIP calling, at least as long as the freakin phone cant do	18:41
BCMM	chem\|st: ?	18:42
BCMM	chem\|st: the n900 actually does SIP...	18:42
chem\|st	sipgate.co.uk does not provide a SIPaddress to be called (you@sipgate.co.uk is not callable)	18:42
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* crashanddie waves at lcuk, chem\|st and SpeedEvil		18:43
chem\|st	BCMM: thought there is a bug open as you can't call a $number@SIPprovider.net contact itself	18:43
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* MohammadAG waits for a wave		18:44
* crashanddie waves at MohammadAG		18:44
crashanddie	you jealous mofo :P	18:44
* MohammadAG slaps crashanddie		18:44
MohammadAG	:P	18:44
* crashanddie kicks MohammadAG		18:44
* MohammadAG bombs crashanddie		18:44
MohammadAG	muhahaha	18:44
Dima_Sharihin	flooders	18:44
* chem\|st thinks their is <3 in the air....		18:45
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* MohammadAG burns the air		18:45
chem\|st	I like word playing	18:45
chem\|st	BCMM: sipgate.co.uk provides free sip-calls to telio and gradwell but thats about it	18:46
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eluiandil	hi all! I found n800_defconfig in maemo kernel 2.6.26: can i compile this kernel for N800/N810 or it is impossible?	18:48
crashanddie	chem\|st: you maybe like playing with words, but "their" isn't wordplay, it's just fail :P	18:48
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Piotras	achipa, so what is recommended way to build python debs (especially for maemo? )	18:49
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chem\|st	crashanddie: their are love in the air is just fail...2	18:50
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crashanddie	chem\|st: can I ask for a favour?	18:50
chem\|st	or they are love	18:51
chem\|st	stfu?	18:51
chem\|st	:d	18:51
crashanddie	chem\|st: take a machine gun on all those stupid off-topic threads	18:51
chem\|st	crashanddie: I wish	18:51
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eluiandil	?	18:52
VDVsx	linux hackers looking for a job take a look: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=105529266158916 ;)	18:52
chem\|st	as long as reggie and the council folks arent on the same line with us I cant do anything, I would just empty out the whole off-topic thing	18:52
chem\|st	so I'm off to grab some to eat l8er	18:53
frals	lol VDVsx	18:54
SpeedEvil	hello	18:54
VDVsx	frals, nice opportunity to join a cool team, eheheh	18:55
frals	:D	18:55
VDVsx	gonna spam meego as well :P	18:55
* VDVsx hides		18:55
lcuk	hey frals - you should signup for that thing VDVsx is spamming :p	18:56
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frals	lcuk: ;D	18:56
frals	gonna prepare dinner with the missus now, laters o/	18:56
lcuk	\o	18:56
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BCMM	how would one go about testing SIP? i'd like to make sure that sip-sip calls are nice before buying any credit for calling real phones	18:57
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BCMM	is there a thing that works a bit like the skype call test service?	18:57
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Dima_Sharihin	BCMM, sip-sip calls are free	18:57
BCMM	yes	18:57
* GAN900 is going to waste time reading the religion thread for some reason.		18:57
BCMM	perhaps i just need to make a second account to test it	18:57
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Dima_Sharihin	BCMM, btw, sip has skype transopts	19:00
GAN900	chem\|st, what page?	19:00
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kajko	how do I turn off quit messages in xchat on N900?	19:00
kajko	it's annoying	19:01
SpeedEvil	/quit	19:01
SpeedEvil	tu turn them off	19:01
SpeedEvil	/quit on to turn them back on	19:01
Dima_Sharihin	/quit =)	19:01
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* SpeedEvil feels bad.		19:02
X-Fade	SpeedEvil: Evil bastard :)	19:02
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Dima_Sharihin	SpeedEvil, take a medicines	19:03
X-Fade	kajko: SpeedEvil was joking, he is really sorry. ;)	19:03
kajko	SpeedEvil nice try	19:03
SpeedEvil	/set irc_conf_mode 1	19:03
SpeedEvil	would seem to be one way	19:04
SpeedEvil	http://xchat.org/faq/#q211	19:04
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kajko	yes	19:04
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MohammadAG	/set for a full list	19:04
SpeedEvil	I presume you could also do it by editing the config file - the other method of 'right-clicking' on a tab does not seem helpful	19:04
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MohammadAG	http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/07/nokia-sues-apple-again-says-the-ipad-3g-infringes-five-patents/	19:07
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Stskeeps	well, the lawyers have to have some work	19:08
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LapEvil	/join #test	19:08
* GAN900 expects it's more Reggie than "council people"		19:09
* microlith rages at orange business services		19:09
bleader	hehe a friend of mine was working there (not anymore btw)	19:09
bleader	he was raging against them quite a lot too	19:09
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crashanddie	GAN900: yeah, probably more reggie than council people, yet the proper way to get things changed is through the community council	19:12
crashanddie	GAN900: just having everyone yell and shout everytime someone throws a tantrum isn't going to get us anywhere. use the appropriate channels.	19:12
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VDVsx	what's the hot topic ? :)	19:12
VDVsx	maemo -> meego I guess	19:12
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crashanddie	VDVsx: your mom :P	19:13
VDVsx	lol	19:13
crashanddie	that's what she said	19:13
* VDVsx slaps crashanddie with a katana		19:13
VDVsx	:D	19:13
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lcuk	now now VDVsx	19:14
lcuk	if you are gonna use that, go do it in the sandbox	19:14
lcuk	we can cover the blood easier	19:14
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korhojoa	who's getting killed?	19:15
kajko	does qgil and the other Nokia dudes still come to this channel?	19:16
LapEvil	rarely.	19:16
LapEvil	!seen qgil	19:16
frals	~seen qgil	19:16
infobot	qgil <~qgil@a88-112-27-165.elisa-laajakaista.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 36d 20h 26m 55s ago, saying: 'ever'.	19:16
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MohammadAG	Nokia dudes <-- I'm seeing this a lot	19:16
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LapEvil	np: Aerosmith - Dude looks like a lady.	19:16
VDVsx	Nokia dudes = Nokians (I heard ;))	19:16
kajko	so he dont come often then	19:16
VDVsx	kajko, more at #meego these days	19:17
Myrtti	qgil isn't the only nokian here...	19:17
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frals	bah wait if one would apply for that team, it means working with VDVsx? /me runs	19:17
kajko	yup....qgil moved on to meego	19:17
* VDVsx hides		19:18
Myrtti	making assumptions based on his visits here is a bit off balance, since he hasn't really been a hardcore irc user ever	19:18
kajko	true	19:18
Shapeshifter	I demand OPK to hang out here :<	19:18
Shapeshifter	oh wait	19:18
VDVsx	+1	19:18
Myrtti	I demand cheesecake	19:18
frals	195k downloads... hopefully i hit 200k tomorrow! \o/	19:18
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Shapeshifter	frals: where do you see the number of downloads?	19:18
frals	http://maemo.org/download-stats/index.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5&repo=extras	19:19
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Shapeshifter	ah nice	19:19
Shapeshifter	mhh, where's the total number?	19:20
frals	have to add it up manually :D	19:20
Shapeshifter	frals: huh. can you do integrals with your eyes?	19:21
frals	what, you cant? O_o	19:21
frals	nah if you check the source theres a link to the script that generates it	19:21
frals	that got all the values	19:21
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Shapeshifter	ah yes	19:22
frals	(i wrote a script to sum it up :()	19:22
kajko	do people still use mms ?	19:24
korhojoa	no.	19:24
SpeedEvil	http://maemo.org/download-stats/fetch.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5 is easy to ue I guess.	19:25
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SpeedEvil	korhojoa: 195000 of them don't.	19:25
Dima_Sharihin	SpeedEvil, whereis '\n' symbols in the script? O_o	19:28
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SpeedEvil	We don't need no steenking human-readability	19:30
SpeedEvil	That's quite easy to parse by eye, compared to html	19:30
Dima_Sharihin	SpeedEvil, Maybe better use obsfucation?	19:30
SpeedEvil	compared to some html	19:30
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BCMM	i've made a free ekiga.net account to test SIP	19:31
BCMM	and it works fine from ekiga on my desktop	19:31
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BCMM	but i can't hear anything on the n900	19:31
BCMM	have i misconfigured something?	19:31
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SpeedEvil	kajko: Go to chanopt.conf in ~/.xchat2/ - add a line text_hidejoinpart = 1	19:32
SpeedEvil	after the channel name	19:32
SpeedEvil	kajko: this lets you set it per-channel	19:32
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kajko	thanks speedevil.... done	19:32
Dima_Sharihin	BCMM, may... Are you sure, that config of PulseAudio for Ekiga is correct on both devices?	19:34
BCMM	Dima_Sharihin: i haven't installed ekiga on teh phone	19:34
BCMM	i'm trying to use the built-in SIP client	19:34
kajko	you can also tap and hold the channel name and a setting window comes up where you can hide/show join/leave alerts	19:34
Dima_Sharihin	=]	19:34
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Shapeshifter	yay for a bash one liner	19:37
Shapeshifter	for i in $(curl -s 'http://maemo.org/download-stats/fetch.php?unixname=fmms&os=Maemo5' \| sed -n '2p' \| sed -e 's/.var\ d\ =\[//;s/\],\[/\]\ \[/g'); do echo $i; done \| awk -F "," '{print $2}' \| sed -e 's/]./+last/' \| bc -l \| tail -n 1	19:38
Shapeshifter	\o/	19:38
Shapeshifter	195338	19:38
Shapeshifter	alarmed only has 2420. which is quite a lot >.> Well. pr1.2 should come out to fix the pyside madness. Then I'll release some more features and vote for it.	19:39
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lcuk	Shapeshifter, thats not a oneliner	19:40
arachnist	i'm actually surprised people still use mms	19:40
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Shapeshifter	lcuk: widen your chat client :P	19:40
lcuk	arachnist, mms reasoning was outlined at the start	19:40
wall[e]	anyone can't login to tmo?	19:40
wall[e]	i tried resetting passwd and didn't work	19:40
lcuk	overwhelming population of hardware out there is compatable with it, vs the number of people with phones capable and configured to use email	19:41
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kajko	with my operator it's cheaper to email pix than mms. i have unlimited data tho.	19:42
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arachnist	lcuk: most of the phones released over the past 4 years or so that are capable of sending/receiving mms are also capable of sending email	19:42
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arachnist	and receiving	19:42
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lcuk	those phones also are NOT configured for email out of the box	19:42
lcuk	and unwashed masses dont usually know how	19:43
lcuk	same devices are however configured for mms	19:43
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lcuk	arachnist, theres whole discussions on the maemo.org wiki about actually kickstarting mms on our devices and the issues	19:44
wall[e]	or may be i got banned?	19:44
wall[e]	just post a few nudes	19:44
lcuk	and how to solve them - we moved on from bah email is available very early	19:44
wall[e]	what's wrong??	19:45
arachnist	lcuk: the biggest issue with mms is still the 2.6.28 kernel, isn't it?	19:45
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lcuk	dunno, fmms seems to be working fine	19:46
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lcuk	frals has done an exceptional job at working round whatever - hes dug and discussed and coordinated and hacked and coded and we practically have a real proper MMS service on our devices :)	19:46
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Dima_Sharihin	imho, MMS useless	19:48
lcuk	195000 people disagree	19:48
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lcuk	well installs	19:48
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Dima_Sharihin	On mine phone, I did not even set up this service	19:49
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lcuk	no, but on a normal phone theres no configuration, if someone sends you an mms it will arrive	19:50
SpeedEvil	The numbers look sane for me more like 10K I think than 190K alas.	19:50
SpeedEvil	Assuming the spikes are correlating with release versions of mms	19:51
lcuk	SpeedEvil, however you want to read them, theres tremendous support from all over the ecosystem for the hard work frals is doing	19:51
lcuk	a few months ago we had no mechanism to do mms and were told there wouldnt be. now we have a viable open source option	19:52
kajko	lcuk: agreed	19:52
SpeedEvil	lcuk: Indeed!	19:53
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: I'm just wondering how you would best correlate teh above numbers with an installed base	19:54
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SpeedEvil	If you look at feb 21 for example - the area under that spike is 7000 or so. The one on April 29th is about 20000	19:56
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pupnik	wb ssvb	20:03
Dima_Sharihin	what-what? =)	20:04
Dima_Sharihin	oh =)	20:04
SpeedEvil	Tripling every 2 months. In about 2 years, everyone on the planet will use fmms.	20:05
ssvb	hi pupnik	20:05
frals	lol SpeedEvil	20:05
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frals	also lcuk, you make me blush! ;)	20:05
Dima_Sharihin	SpeedEvil, Provided that you have given the whole planet N900	20:06
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lcuk	:) frals - credti where its due	20:06
lcuk	credit too	20:06
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SpeedEvil	How opaque is mms data? Do the networks just treat it as a binary?	20:08
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* GAN900 had a dream that PR1.2 was released last night.		20:10
Stskeeps	time for weekend then	20:11
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Dima_Sharihin	GAN900, sleep-sleep, you are sleeping =]	20:13
RST38h	mhmm	20:14
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* SpeedEvil had a dream that one day, little black nokias, and little white nokias, ...		20:15
Dima_Sharihin	why little?	20:17
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RST38h	SpeedEvil: Have you got to hump any of them?	20:18
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lcuk	lardman, i have to both thank you and grrrr @ u	20:20
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Viliny_	Hey guys	20:21
Viliny_	some update screwed over my cpu scaling file i guess... i ran lehtos kernel but now it won't scale beyond 600 - which file should i be looking for?	20:21
lcuk	this channel does not condone nor support overclocking	20:21
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Viliny_	really?	20:22
SpeedEvil	Dima: http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkihaveadream.htm	20:22
MohammadAG	yes, really	20:22
MohammadAG	same goes for any leaks	20:22
Viliny_	alright, so which file is responsible for the cpu scaling on the n900?	20:23
MohammadAG	:/	20:23
lcuk	i dunno, never had to mess with it	20:23
Viliny_	fair enough	20:23
MohammadAG	hint, it's in /sys	20:23
MohammadAG	err	20:23
RST38h	Viliny_: /vmlinuz?	20:23
MohammadAG	/proc*	20:23
MohammadAG	lol	20:23
lcuk	somewhere in /	20:23
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frals	SpeedEvil: its a binary (over regular http)	20:24
Viliny_	so why has the tone here gotten so zealous when it comes to oc?	20:24
Dima_Sharihin	SpeedEvil, very nice :)	20:24
MohammadAG	look in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/	20:24
MohammadAG	i used find -name, use it next time	20:25
Viliny_	what did you use for name?	20:25
MohammadAG	cpufreq*	20:25
Viliny_	alright, thank you sir	20:25
Viliny_	is there a separate channel for tinkering such as overclocking?	20:26
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chem\|st	Viliny_: before I start OC with anything I change the OS setup to perform better, it makes no sense to me doing oc on a system which could be faster by tweaking	20:27
* chem\|st wants a button to turn off transitions		20:27
Viliny_	chem\|st: i have done the transitions thing, love the speed. but i also love the phone in it's faster state... flash, emulation... it's like how the device should have been	20:28
Viliny_	its*	20:28
chem\|st	Viliny_: well stop all unneeded background tasks and you get about the same	20:29
chem\|st	I got no performance issues with flash...	20:29
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Viliny_	what exactly are we classing as unnecessary?	20:29
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MohammadAG	Anything cpu intensive	20:30
Viliny_	like turning on the phone?	20:30
chem\|st	who needs home anyway?	20:30
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chem\|st	stuff that keeps your xserver threating the cpu	20:32
eluiandil	hi all! I found n800_defconfig in maemo kernel 2.6.26: can i compile this kernel for N800/N810 or it is impossible?	20:32
GAN900	Viliny_, because the likelihood of it killing your device outright in a short period of time is very high.	20:32
Viliny_	what is your source for it being very high?	20:32
GAN900	TI, TI engineers, Nokia engineers.	20:33
eluiandil	is maemo 4/OS2008 support 2.6.26?	20:33
chem\|st	Viliny_: you got no proper cooling system so anything above 700MHz will do no good	20:33
GAN900	chem\|st, it isn't heat.	20:33
Viliny_	then what is it	20:34
chem\|st	GAN900: I know but how do you sell people stuff they dont understand	20:34
MohammadAG	there should be a wiki article about electromigration	20:34
GAN900	^	20:34
chem\|st	Viliny_: the design of the chip is the issue	20:34
MohammadAG	there might be one on wikipedia	20:34
GAN900	Viliny_, you're severely reducing the life of your device running at 550 or 600MHz for long periods of time	20:35
GAN900	Anything beyond 600MHz is dangerous.	20:35
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Viliny_	yeah well it's not like i don't understand the risks - i went under the impression that the lifetime wouldn't be shortened enough to make a difference in this case	20:36
Viliny_	im using it as a phone and it's going to get swapped in a couple of years any way	20:37
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chem\|st	Viliny_: we are not talking about years	20:38
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kajko	there is no need to overclock the N900... it's not like it's slow as it is	20:38
Viliny_	well, for me it is	20:39
chem\|st	GAN900: and well it is about heat, not like getting warm but about micro/nano spots	20:40
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GAN900	chem\|st, well, yeah, it's not that simple.	20:41
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GAN900	But I think people having the impression that it's about overheating might give them a false sense of security. ;)	20:41
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MohammadAG	<Viliny_> im using it as a phone and it's going to get swapped in a couple of years any way	20:41
MohammadAG	500 - 10 year	20:41
MohammadAG	550-600 5 year	20:42
chem\|st	Viliny_: you feel the need to overclock it, go ahead! make my day! I am working for a company doing nanostructural research... you save my job in some way!	20:42
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MohammadAG	600-650 2.5 (doing some weird maths here)	20:42
MohammadAG	650 would make a big difference	20:42
GAN900	Viliny_, overclocking you could be talking about weeks. :)	20:42
MohammadAG	750, less than a year	20:42
MohammadAG	800, half a year	20:42
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wall[e]	will next n900 be n911?	20:42
wall[e]	i just want the number	20:42
MohammadAG	1000, you're an idiot	20:42
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: thanks for the pointer :-)	20:42
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GAN900	wall[e], nobody without an NDA knows.	20:43
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GAN900	and maybe not even then.	20:43
wall[e]	or a window cleaner	20:43
Viliny_	so with your prophecy, we are going to see a lot of people with broken phones in a couple of months then	20:43
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wall[e]	will wait a couple of months before overclocking then	20:44
MohammadAG	i really don't get it	20:44
MohammadAG	600 is fast enough	20:44
MohammadAG	even for flash	20:44
chem\|st	you might try to fix its speed to 700 and start a stopwatch (we are not talking about a long time here so a stopwatch will do) and start browsing flash pages an stuff	20:44
RST38h	OMG google updated their homepage	20:44
wall[e]	may be gaming is too slow	20:44
Viliny_	MohammadAG: well what do you use the phone for?	20:45
MohammadAG	everything but a phone	20:45
chem\|st	wall[e]: thats a no on n911	20:45
Viliny_	And at no point have you sat there and thought to yourself: Man, i wish this would go a bit faster?	20:46
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wall[e]	but i think, speed improvement should be done more in software optimization level.	20:46
RST38h	wall: Are you a computer programmer?	20:46
wall[e]	not overclocking	20:46
Viliny_	out of the box this damn thing stuttered and skipped on flash videos - a little later i found a kernel for overclocking and went with 900 - smooth	20:46
chem\|st	Viliny_: I did! then I figured out what was slowing it down and changed the setup	20:46
Viliny_	i don't know if i want the n900 with stock speeds	20:46
wall[e]	RST38h, yes.	20:46
MohammadAG	Viliny_, once, when I was encoding an flv, and that's not worth losing 5 years of lifetime	20:46
* DocScrutinizer moans and turns away, to have another nap. Can't stand it anymore to explain the exponential curve of electromigration to noobs who thin OCing is the cutest thing since Kernigan invented C		20:47
RST38h	And you honestly believe that everything can be optimized?	20:47
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RST38h	Who is Kernigan, Doc?	20:47
wall[e]	RST38h, I didn't say that, but most of them yes.	20:47
MohammadAG	cutest thing since Kernigan invented C LOL	20:47
chem\|st	Viliny_: I do that for battery lifetime aswell... I get my netbook to playback videos for 6hours straight	20:47
joga	err...someone has proof of the device's lifetime declining significantly because of overclocking?	20:47
MohammadAG	RST38h, the guy who invented C it seems	20:47
RST38h	joga: TI	20:47
wall[e]	if a hello world is too slow	20:47
RST38h	Mohammad: He invented a letter of the alphabet?	20:47
wall[e]	you can improve it in compiler level	20:48
wall[e]	or io level	20:48
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: maybe it was Ritchie, or Pike	20:48
joga	RST38h: running 100% all the time?	20:48
joga	I mean, has someone's n900 broken down?	20:48
wall[e]	or memory allocation level	20:48
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MohammadAG	RST38h, yeah, amazing isn't it?	20:48
chem\|st	joga: you may find some info on stress tests for omap without overclocking, some of the older ones took about a day at 400MHz if I remember right	20:48
* RST38h yawns widely		20:48
RST38h	Mohammad: Learning something new daily...	20:48
Viliny_	meh, this isn't working out that well, most of you come across as elitist shutins right now	20:49
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MohammadAG	then some guy thought he was smart and added maths to the equation, thus making C++	20:49
Viliny_	used to be fun talking in here	20:49
joga	chem\|st: so in principle you're saying that a runaway process on my phone could ruin it in hours? ;)	20:49
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wall[e]	there were a moment in history that, a few doctors came out and say hey smoking is totally safe	20:49
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chem\|st	joga: no, that improved alot but I would not try to run it on fixed 600 for to long though	20:50
wall[e]	but for this both side needs some physical prove	20:50
wall[e]	at atomic level?	20:50
joga	chem\|st: for some reason I'm tempted to try :)	20:50
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RST38h	Mohammad: You mean the one named after the dead ostrich?	20:51
joga	personally I would expect nokia to have run it for long periods of 100% cpu use, but I dunno	20:51
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chem\|st	joga: well ask nokia for a spare device where something else is broken anyway to show people what the n900 is up for	20:51
joga	(that's what I would do if I were to release a phone, anyway. put it under stress for a few months and see)	20:51
DocScrutinizer	~wiki C_(programming_language)	20:52
infobot	At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(programming_language) (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Infobox programming language \| name = C \| paradigm = Imperative (procedural), structured \| logo = \| caption = "The C Programming Language" (also known as "K&R"), the seminal book on C \| year = 1972 \| designer = Dennis Ritchie \| developer = Dennis Ritchie & Bell Labs \| latest release version = C99 \| latest release date = March 2000 \| turing-complete = Yes \| typing = ...	20:52
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chem\|st	joga: yeah the device stress tests look some kind different	20:52
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DocScrutinizer	K&R == Kernigan & Ritchie	20:53
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chem\|st	I think the design will keep up to 4 years at least	20:53
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GAN900	lol, elitist shutins!	20:53
DocScrutinizer	ooh, sorry	20:53
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chem\|st	does someone know if the info is right that 125MHz was kept out of settings because of malfunctioning?	20:53
GAN900	Somebody should start a social club or something.	20:53
MohammadAG	RST38h, lolwut	20:54
GAN900	chem\|st, no idea	20:54
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GAN900	chem\|st, might prod Igor, though.	20:54
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: It's what rumor has	20:54
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DocScrutinizer	instable	20:55
chem\|st	I dont find any omap3 device running at 125MHz so it might be two issues [instability; powerconsumption]	20:55
chem\|st	I bet on #1	20:55
MohammadAG	which causes #2 ;)	20:56
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chem\|st	well if you put it that way it should do yes	20:56
MohammadAG	device will take longer to be stable again	20:56
wall[e]	look for a free group gallery with rating button	20:56
wall[e]	flickr has a group one but i can't see rating	20:56
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wall[e]	for n900 art	20:57
summel	how do i setup qemu on mac os for the qt creator sdk thingy beta?	20:57
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer / SpeedEvil / javispedro (and anybody else relevent), just wanted to thank you guys for all of your hacktivity. It's nice to see things happening. :)	20:58
Dima_Sharihin	nice =^.^=	20:58
DocScrutinizer	ack, same here (as my contributions were actually small during last 24h of amazing progress)	20:59
Viliny_	one last thing, since you seem to know so much. How is the arm in the n900 different to desktop processors - if it is?	20:59
DocScrutinizer	Viliny_: It's optimized for low power consumption. That afects virtually all aspects of the chip and its properties	21:00
Viliny_	ah i see	21:00
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chem\|st	Viliny_: the arm itself is a different architecture	21:00
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Viliny_	well basicly, you get so used to overclocking in the modern age when motherboards are coming out with built in overclocking and everyone doing it - my gaming laptop has a switch to overclock it - somewhere in all of this it just started to feel like a trivial thing. I have a 7 year computer which has been running heavily overclocked since day 1 without any problems and so has my current...	21:02
Viliny_	...newer computer	21:02
Viliny_	but i don't pretend i know exactly how things work under the hood	21:02
pupnik_	who does	21:03
pupnik_	ok finnish rail is pretty bad	21:03
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DocScrutinizer	Viliny_: that overclocking is really minimal comared to what is going on with N900 right now. Also - as mentioned above - the chip is very different in its properties to a usual Intel x86 processor	21:04
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Viliny_	So with all this and the huge overclocking thread with all it's supporters is going to end with a lot of users with dead phones in less than a year?	21:05
pupnik_	and ppl are ocing up to 50 pct	21:05
DocScrutinizer	Viliny_: yes	21:05
MohammadAG	hopefully :P	21:06
Viliny_	MohammadAG: why do you hate overclockers then? :P	21:06
Viliny_	i mean, it's their phone, right?	21:06
* MohammadAG thanks DocScrutinizer for that		21:06
DocScrutinizer	Viliny_: until it becomes my phone when I buy a used one that'll fail after 4 weeks	21:07
pupnik_	a fun experiment for ti. wonder if we could get a report of time spent in OC	21:07
wall[e]	to know when oc'ed device will die and sell it a week before that is an art(!)	21:08
Viliny_	do you guys have any sources discussing overclocking and risks on arm processors?	21:08
MohammadAG	of thievery	21:08
DocScrutinizer	pupnik_: don't you know several apps like HAM already have hidden cpufreq analysis and reporting, and recent downtime in maemo.org was to implement the 'call home' ? :-)	21:08
* MohammadAG doubts that		21:09
wall[e]	but with a few human experiments the time would be more precise.	21:09
Dima202	overclocking is baad.. mkay?	21:09
MohammadAG	if there was 1 it'd have 10 views or so	21:09
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MohammadAG	o/ ossipena	21:09
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ossipena	hi MohammadAG	21:09
wall[e]	and you won't be able to sell non oc'ed device if oc devices start dying	21:10
DocScrutinizer	Viliny_: search wikipedia for 'electromigration'	21:10
wall[e]	coz nobody will know if yours is oc'ed or not	21:10
DocScrutinizer	wall[e]: exactly	21:10
ossipena	what was the dev channel name?	21:11
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MohammadAG	#maemo-dev i think	21:11
summel	no	21:11
summel	:D	21:11
DocScrutinizer	#maemo-devel	21:12
summel	not if you have more then 1 developer	21:12
summel	:P	21:12
Joefrig	What if I overclock overclock for like an hour and then switch back? Thats it? warranty is voided even if device fails one year from now?	21:12
ossipena	thanks	21:12
MohammadAG	#maemo-development	21:12
MohammadAG	grr	21:12
Dima202	Joefrig You only get one year warranty	21:12
ossipena	wondered too because maemo-dev was empty	21:12
MohammadAG	nope	21:12
ossipena	:)	21:12
DocScrutinizer	Joefrig: yes	21:12
MohammadAG	no dev channel?	21:12
Joefrig	how do they know tho?	21:13
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: devel!	21:13
DocScrutinizer	Joefrig: see wikipedia 'electromigration'	21:13
wall[e]	all finger prints over O and C buttons!	21:13
MohammadAG	friendly welcome WARNING: Trolls will be booted on first troll	21:14
Viliny_	DocScrutinizer yes i read some of that wikipage but i just wondered if there would be an article about these particular processors falling victim to this effect	21:14
DocScrutinizer	Viliny_: it's all in TI's datasheet for the processor	21:14
Viliny_	im sorry, TI ?	21:14
MohammadAG	ossipena, #maemo-devel it is then..	21:14
BCMM	ok, i've made myself two ekiga accounts, and set one up on the n900	21:15
MohammadAG	Texas Instruments	21:15
BCMM	i can call their echo service on my pc, works fine	21:15
BCMM	i can call the phone from the pc, and hear sound from the pc	21:15
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: [2010-05-07 20:12:04] <DocScrutinizer> #maemo-devel :-P	21:15
BCMM	but no sound from phone on pc	21:15
BCMM	i can call the PC from the phone	21:15
BCMM	it connects, but no sound	21:15
BCMM	wtf?	21:15
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, lol forgot to quote you ;p	21:15
Viliny_	im having a hard time finding anything with google on the subject - i guess i should stop asking about this	21:16
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MohammadAG	mic dead?	21:16
summel	BCMM: there is a bug in telepathy with ekiga accounts	21:16
MohammadAG	who ya gonna call? GhostBusters! :P	21:16
chem\|st	BCMM: I'd say your pc settings are wrong, have you tried to call another phone?	21:16
summel	you should use another provider or/and hope they fix ekiga in pr 1.2 if they ever will	21:17
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: try with a decent phone instead of PC	21:17
chem\|st	summel: oh nice	21:17
summel	chem\|st: yes :D	21:17
BCMM	chem\|st: well, the PC is ekiga with an ekiga.net account	21:17
BCMM	chem\|st: and it works fine on thier echo service	21:17
Viliny_	"The ARM Cortex™-A8 processor is based on the ARMv7 architecture and has the ability to scale in speed from 600MHz to greater than 1GHz." - Is this not what the N900 is using?	21:17
summel	i just registered with another free sip provider :)	21:17
chem\|st	Viliny_: just stop oc and go for tweaking instead	21:17
BCMM	summel: ah, thanks	21:17
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MohammadAG	Viliny_, yes	21:17
summel	but i use jingle more often then sip	21:17
BCMM	summel: who would you recommend? i'm kinda overwhelmed by the number of SIP providers	21:18
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Viliny_	chem\|st: any tips on flash performance?	21:18
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summel	BCMM: just asecond i check what provider i used :D	21:18
chem\|st	Viliny_: the series is able to yes but the version used for n900 is limited to 600	21:18
Joefrig	DocScrutinizer: Do Nokia really go through the process of checking traces of atoms to see if it's been overclocked?	21:18
BCMM	summel: ideally, one which can make calls to landlines, and is peered with other SIP networks	21:18
summel	www.sip2sip.info	21:18
chem\|st	Viliny_: SD or build in?	21:18
Viliny_	chem\|st: has that limitation or is limited to?	21:18
summel	BCMM: afaik they also do landlines (but you have to pay for that of course)	21:19
chem\|st	has that limitation	21:19
BCMM	Viliny_: that the CPU itself can scale to that frequency does not imply that the n900 can dissapate heat from the CPU when it runs at that frequency	21:19
Viliny_	chem\|st: SD or build in? I'm sorry i didn't understand that	21:19
DocScrutinizer	Joefrig: no, that's another point why we hate OCers. Nokia will simply say "OC - no warranty" no matter what the actual cause of failure was	21:19
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MohammadAG	it's not heat...	21:19
chem\|st	BCMM: whats wrong with sipgate?	21:19
BCMM	chem\|st: uh, lemme think, i tried a few	21:19
BCMM	chem\|st: i think it wouldn't make calls to ekiga	21:20
chem\|st	Viliny_: for flash... and now I am the riddle king... you mean flash as in adobe	21:20
Viliny_	yes i mean the flash support in microb	21:20
BCMM	summel: and sip2sip can basically make calls to other sip networks?	21:20
Joefrig	DocScrutinizer: I understand, it is unfair if someone fried their device and then starts complaining to Nokia	21:20
DocScrutinizer	Joefrig: though you bet Nokia will find ways to tell the device was overclocked, even without electron microscopy	21:20
summel	BCMM: yes that is for free :)	21:20
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BCMM	summel: thanks	21:21
chem\|st	Viliny_: have you tried firefox for flash?	21:21
summel	though i could not successfully test video sip calls because i only have one sip contact :D	21:21
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BCMM	summel: do you mind if i ask you when i get stuck working out configuration	21:21
BCMM	?	21:21
BCMM	summel: the n900 does SIP video calls?	21:21
Viliny_	chem\|st: it seemed slower overall so i went with the assumption that flash would be bad as well	21:21
summel	sure, but i dont know if i can help... i only registered and made it work on the n900 i dont call landlines with sip :D	21:21
DocScrutinizer	Joefrig: see wikipedia JTAG, to get an idea	21:22
BCMM	summel: well, i'm pretty confused about sip in general	21:22
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chem\|st	BCMM: with pr1.2 it will	21:22
summel	BCMM: when i cal my sip contact i can see the camera button for a short time so i guess it can	21:22
summel	but i know the contacts client has problems with video calls	21:22
dhq	BCMM: i dont get that :(	21:22
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Joefrig	DocScrutinizer: yah if the device was o/c'ed when it died they could read that info using jtag	21:22
Viliny_	chem\|st: so no, haven't tested it	21:23
DocScrutinizer	Joefrig: they also can spot the location of a breakage down to very few gates on a chip, and then consider how likely it is those gates failed by another reason than OC	21:24
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DocScrutinizer	this can be done independantly of the kernel that's in NAND when the device breaks	21:24
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: isn't that too much work?	21:24
* DocScrutinizer shrugs		21:24
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DocScrutinizer	...or they go the simple route and claim "OC" no matter what the actual error is	21:25
Joefrig	DocScrutinizer: yeah they are looking at the hardware itself	21:25
DocScrutinizer	whatever is earning more money to Nokia	21:25
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Shapeshifter	has a single device been destroyed yet?	21:26
chem\|st	Viliny_: I got only initial hickups but those I have with a dualcore just the same....	21:26
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DocScrutinizer	I bet several were destroyed, but nobody will let you know	21:26
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: I kinda doubt they wouldn't come whining on tmo.	21:26
* DocScrutinizer shrugs again		21:27
chem\|st	Shapeshifter: after the last discussion I doubt they come...	21:27
Viliny_	The people who thought their device went poof came and complained so i have a hard time thinking those with the real deal wouldn't	21:27
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BCMM	summel: not working :(	21:28
DocScrutinizer	nota bene the CPU won't explode in a sudden, it just starts throwing more and more errors, segfaulting processes, freezing for no apparent reason, and so on	21:28
BCMM	i can call my pc, it rings, it connects	21:28
BCMM	no sound	21:28
BCMM	i cannot call the phone from the pc	21:28
BCMM	i can IM from the phone to the PC	21:28
Shapeshifter	and about the 500mhz idle being dangerous - well at least you could lock it at 412mhz. that's what the iphone uses and I haven't seen those go poof.	21:28
BCMM	but i cannot send IM from the pc	21:28
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, the battery would go poof	21:29
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: my n900 is already freezing for no apparent reason and I'm not overclocking :P	21:29
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: NAT issue?	21:29
BCMM	i suspect the phone will not so much break as wear out at a greatly increased rate	21:29
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: probably...	21:29
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: but they are both on the same network	21:29
Viliny_	Someone on talk mentioned that other devices using the same processor are running at 800mhz, thoughts?	21:29
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: so i don't understand the assymetry	21:30
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: see? how likely is it you'll blame OC if that gets more frequent?	21:30
BCMM	Viliny_: those other devices have different power supplies and different thermal management	21:30
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: mh? I was joking anyway, because IO is so damn slow.	21:30
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Shapeshifter	/ makes the device freeze	21:30
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Viliny_	BCMM: heat wasn't an issue, remember?	21:31
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: and probably different chip version	21:31
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, did you fix the pwr btn?	21:31
BCMM	Viliny_: why isn't heat an issue?	21:31
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM: 2 SIP clients behind same NAT always is asking for trouble	21:31
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BCMM	DocScrutinizer: worse than 2 sip clients behind different NATs?	21:32
Viliny_	BCMM: i don't know, it's been repeated here several times now	21:32
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: no. For now I'm practicing how to push it the right way	21:32
BCMM	i'll give it a go on 3g	21:32
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: yes	21:32
Shapeshifter	still, before a clear verdict has been reached, I think claims in both directions are just wild guesses. Just because some guy from nokia said not to lock it at high frequencies (which would be using the cpu outside it's specs) doesn't mean it's all evil and stuff. I haven't seen any evidence regarding a notable difference in speed anywhere, I haven't seen any evidence for cpu's being damaged (yet).	21:32
Shapeshifter	it's all "*shrug"	21:32
Shapeshifter	s/speed/fluidity	21:33
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: (heat) see wikipedia 'electromigration'	21:33
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pupnik_	we do have docs from ti	21:33
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BCMM	i should point out that i wasn't arguing that your device will be damaged; i was arguing that it is plausible that it will be	21:34
DocScrutinizer	/mode +m	21:34
BCMM	in practise, there will be a safe degree to which it can be overclocked	21:34
DocScrutinizer	:-S	21:34
BCMM	that nobody knows yet	21:34
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* DocScrutinizer needs more coffee		21:34
MohammadAG	<DocScrutinizer> /mode +m <-- please?	21:35
Viliny_	gonna wear out that wikipedia page doc	21:35
wall[e]	noo	21:35
pupnik_	lol	21:35
BCMM	on 3g, i can't even send im or connect a call	21:35
pupnik_	huh?	21:35
Shapeshifter	still, I wonder if the cache flush when clock-scaling has a notable impact on the experience.	21:35
* pupnik_ has worn through n900 kbd		21:35
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM: try to call (from) a decent landline phone to your N900 SIP client	21:36
Viliny_	Alright, well i'm sorry for bringing this topic to the channel discussion. I honestly didn't know you guys despised overclocking the device so much... in fact i even thought you would like the idea - wasn't my intention to start any arguments or unpleasantries here... with that apology ill f off and stop bothering you all	21:36
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: oh, i forgot it gave me a real number	21:36
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DocScrutinizer	Viliny_: you're welcome	21:37
lcuk	look, right now this discussion is moot we have official word saying just dont bother - thats been there from the start and made very clear by eero, the only people who can officially say otherwise are gonna be eero and the system sw guys after discussions with ti themselves -	21:37
wall[e]	mom said i spoke too fast on OC device	21:37
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Viliny_	who is eero lcuk ? a nokia worker?	21:38
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: could you set up an autoresponder for that, please? :-D	21:38
BCMM	apparently i forget it didn't give me a real number :(	21:39
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RST38h	Ah, cool, these guys switched to self service now: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/05/06/1617423/miami-airport-screener-beats-co.html	21:40
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: switch for a decent SIP provider then ;-P ekiga is crap anyway (for the provider side for sure). I suggest sipgate.(de\|at\|uk) if that applies to you	21:40
HB	what scientific research is there that proves that 601 mhz will severely reduce the life time of said device, when the processor (65nm LP) is marketet to handle up to 800 mhz ?	21:40
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: i'm using sip2sip ATM	21:41
BCMM	HB: nobody said 601 will kill it	21:41
BCMM	HB: nobody knows what will kill it	21:41
arachnist	HB: it might have been downclocked for other reasons than potential lifetime	21:41
arachnist	HB: like heat	21:41
HB	for the electromigration problems, as long as using the same voltage it should not be an issue? right?	21:41
lcuk	battery life is one of my principle things	21:41
RST38h	No.	21:41
DocScrutinizer	HB: wrong	21:42
lcuk	screw anything else - mainting a healthy phone between charges outweighs anything, and we have plenty of horsepower to run all the apps we need	21:42
Dima202	Has anyone tried porting Deluge?	21:42
DocScrutinizer	HB: omap has a special technology called SmartReflex, that decouples core from core voltage	21:43
HB	it is totally absurd to claim that 100% usage on 600mhz would not cause the same strain as an OCd device as long as the electrodensity is kept the same	21:43
RST38h	lcuk: Sorry to disappoint your zeal, but apparently, overclocked n900s do not eat that much more power	21:43
DocScrutinizer	HB: and it's not volage but current which causes electromigration	21:43
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lcuk	RST38h, a runaway process does	21:43
RST38h	lcuk: Probably because they still spend most of their time at lower frequencies	21:43
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: HB yeah current	21:43
lcuk	yeah i know	21:43
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lcuk	just as now we run at lower frequencies most of the time	21:44
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chem\|st	HB its like perforating an Al-foil with a needle or a shotgun	21:44
RST38h	lcuk: Besides, the overclocked kernels actually lower core voltage	21:44
chem\|st	in this case a Cu-foil with electrons	21:44
RST38h	lcuk: So, that higher current argument should also be taken with a bit of caution	21:44
Tuukka	Ummm, how do i update usb drivers on ubuntu? My portable hd ain't working with it (doesn't detect)	21:45
DocScrutinizer	HB: I.E electron density is a function of cpufrq and SmartReflex action, but not of core voltage	21:45
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Viliny_	Tuukka: have you tried #ubuntu?	21:45
HB	i still maintain that the research into this is pretty dim, the circumstances are what decides the outcome, will there be more idle time on a oc processor e.g. and how big the higher rate is compared to the original.	21:45
Tuukka	Viliny_: ?	21:46
chem\|st	Tuukka: what does dmsg say?	21:46
RST38h	HB: A lot of research into the causes of cancer is pretty dim	21:46
Viliny_	Tuukka: You asked a ubuntu related question on a maemo channel - im confused about your confusion?	21:46
RST38h	HB: Will you risk it though?	21:46
HB	this is not talk about cancer matey, this is talks about electronics	21:46
DocScrutinizer	HB: seems TI has done pretty broad research into that, and gave us the results	21:46
HB	could you please link me the results, i obviously have some reading to do..	21:47
Viliny_	DocScrutinizer: have you got a link to that material so i could have a look?	21:47
Viliny_	Oh and btw, i just reflashed to original - for all the haters :)	21:47
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Tuukka	there's some highspeed usb devices	21:47
pupnik_	RST38h: precisely	21:47
johnsq	Hi	21:47
Viliny_	AND i intend to tell any buyers about the oc if i ever end up selling the phone	21:48
MohammadAG	hi johnsq	21:48
chem\|st	HB: research on this matter made it possible to reduce size, I may not call it research if a bunch of el engineers do that by try and error but you might do...	21:48
RST38h	HB: Texas Instruments rates the chips it sells to Nokia at 600MHz top	21:48
chem\|st	Viliny_: that way you may pack it up as present	21:48
DocScrutinizer	Viliny_: check texas_instruments.com - they provide all the papers, you just need to find the right one. Sorry no decent pointer here atm, as their download interface is really awkward	21:48
RST38h	HB: Even on that frequency, they have got a relatively short time between failures	21:49
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Shapeshifter	mh. I want a fuel cell for my n900. :>	21:49
RST38h	HB: No, "matey", if you are willing to disprove that, it is ok to go ahead and overclock your own device	21:49
Viliny_	chem\|st: pack it up as present?	21:49
RST38h	HB: As long as you are aware of voiding your warranty, that is fine and dandy	21:50
HB	i own no n900 matey :)	21:50
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, why a fuel cell? I want nuclear cells!	21:50
RST38h	HB: But would you please spare us all the necessity of listening to your endless chatter about it?	21:50
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: well a fuel cell might actually be feasable. I'd love it. probably...	21:51
RST38h	HB: If you do not own an n900, then I am not even sure WHY you are talking about this oc subject	21:51
MohammadAG	Shapeshifter, a nuclear 1 is feasable too	21:51
HB	im intrested in the processor in it self, as well as any device running on it	21:51
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RST38h	Shouldn't you be talking about ovecrlocking your iPhone or Android instead?	21:51
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: the best thing about it is the recharge time of like 5 seconds.	21:51
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Shapeshifter	HB: why? it's an outdated chip anyway.	21:51
MohammadAG	well, nuclear batteries should have 1.5k lifetime on one charge	21:51
RST38h	You can get a 1GHz-rated OMAP3 from TI and use it.	21:52
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* DocScrutinizer away for more coffe, mumbling XXX-rated stuff		21:52
MohammadAG	(depending on half life)	21:52
RST38h	N900 has a 600MHz-rated OMAP3.	21:52
BCMM	if i can connect to a SIP account when on wifi, but can't when on 3g, does that mean my network is blocking SIP?	21:52
lcuk	MohammadAG, nuclear batteries should not leave me with additional testicles tho	21:52
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RST38h	Any more questions?	21:52
javispedro	ah, overclocking!	21:52
RST38h	moo javispedro	21:52
DocScrutinizer	hi javispedro	21:52
javispedro	afternoon	21:52
DocScrutinizer	great deal of work done on hostmode today :-D	21:52
MohammadAG	RST38h, yes, why do we all moo?	21:52
MohammadAG	hey javispedro	21:53
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: thanks a lot	21:53
BusterB	I saw the thread about using a wiimote as a gamepad. Is there anyway to use it to control kmplayer?	21:53
RST38h	Mohammad: No idea why you moo. I moo because I am a cow.	21:53
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: UGT	21:53
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: at this point I am not following what egoshin is doing though	21:53
DocScrutinizer	~ugt	21:53
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html	21:53
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hrw	hi	21:54
RST38h	heya hrw	21:54
javispedro	hey hrw	21:54
hrw	how to make screenshot of maemo5 from shell?	21:54
javispedro	hrw: you did also n900 host mode work previously iirc?	21:54
hrw	javispedro: no	21:54
javispedro	ah	21:54
hrw	I have modest in portrait	21:55
javispedro	hrw: there's a tool, "screenshot-tool"	21:55
javispedro	should be in some repo, probably tools	21:55
Shapeshifter	the video quality of the n900 is awesome. i'm amazed everytime.	21:55
hrw	so far tried to use in portrait: modest, witter, conversations	21:55
Shapeshifter	picture quality is abysmal, video quality is sweet.	21:55
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hrw	javispedro: sdk/tools?	21:56
lcuk	Shapeshifter, yeah when i used macro recording n900-n900 i was surprised	21:56
lcuk	crystal clear recording	21:56
Shapeshifter	it's amazing. what do you mean by n900-n900?	21:57
wall[e]	is underclocking safe?	21:57
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MohammadAG	...	21:57
Viliny_	Shapeshifter: recorded video?	21:57
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javispedro	hrw: think so	21:58
Shapeshifter	Viliny_: recording using the camera, yes.	21:58
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Viliny_	ah yeah, really a lottery with the camera	21:58
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Viliny_	haven't played back any video yet	21:58
javispedro	http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/screenshot-tool/	21:58
hrw	thx	21:59
hrw	shift-ctrl-r shortcut roxx	22:00
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zokier	is it possible to get raw data from camera or does it produce jpegs directly on hardware?	22:02
hrw	http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/download/maemo/shots/modest1.png	22:02
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flux	zokier, I don't know, but it's pretty advanced so I guess it can do both ways. but bandwidth might be an issue if you want many images.	22:03
lcuk	nice hrw!	22:03
Shapeshifter	mh. well that is odd. I installed transitioncontrol but it doesn't show up in the more menu. I did dpkg -L transitioncontrol to see what files it owns and /usr/share/applications/hildon/transitioncontrol.desktop is there and the contents look okay.	22:03
Shapeshifter	why's it not in the more menu?	22:03
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hrw	lcuk: no hacks - just LR1.2 + one shortcut	22:04
hrw	http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/download/maemo/shots/vert-witter.png shows that witter needs some help	22:04
lcuk	yeah hrw :) you gonna make a writeup of eveyrthing that works well	22:05
lcuk	hey! im on that photo	22:05
MohammadAG	oooh, it has portrait now?	22:06
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Shapeshifter	I'd be happy if modest would enable me to select text ...	22:06
hrw	MohammadAG: there is a debug shortcut in hildon to switch app to portrait	22:06
MohammadAG	oh	22:06
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: a question though, what happens if vbus is literally 0v when trying to be host of a selfpowered hub? does it depend on the hub, does the standard dictate something?	22:06
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hrw	MohammadAG: you need LR1.2 for it	22:07
hrw	javispedro: I am using powered hubs which do not have +5v line with beagleboard	22:07
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MohammadAG	:/	22:07
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: depends on hub for all I know	22:07
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MohammadAG	hrw, can't i just use the 1.2 hildon desktop?	22:07
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hrw	MohammadAG: do backup and try	22:08
hrw	MohammadAG: prepare for reflashing anyway	22:08
javispedro	I have the suspicion that my hub might use host vbus	22:08
javispedro	for its controller	22:08
MohammadAG	and why's that	22:08
MohammadAG	I have the packages for 1.2 installed for about a week	22:08
DocScrutinizer	I have a hub here that clearly doesn't care about VBUS on upstream port, as it is simply linked to the external power receptacle via a diode aiui	22:09
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javispedro	hrw: hey, you have a beagleboard?	22:09
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javispedro	the one with a working otg port?	22:09
hrw	javispedro: 3	22:09
javispedro	interesting	22:09
MohammadAG	ctrl shift r you say, it works!	22:09
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: see http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/Y-Cable/	22:10
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DocScrutinizer	hrw: heh, could we ask you to do some simple tests for us? :-)	22:10
javispedro	++ :)	22:10
hrw	javispedro: B7 + 2xC3 - all worked	22:10
hrw	DocScrutinizer: after UDS-M please. so 17th May	22:11
DocScrutinizer	hmm, k	22:11
hrw	DocScrutinizer: today I do not want to play with BB and next week I am at uds-m	22:11
DocScrutinizer	whatever UDS-M might be	22:11
javispedro	ubuntu summit iirc	22:11
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DocScrutinizer	eeew	22:11
hrw	ubuntu developers summit (maverick)	22:11
hrw	DocScrutinizer: I work for Canonical	22:12
DocScrutinizer	;-P	22:12
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DocScrutinizer	hrw: http://xkcd.com/424/	22:12
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VDVsx	lol, very good	22:13
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DocScrutinizer	hrw: but never mind, we all do stuff we would like to be different	22:13
javispedro	ah, the igepv2 has a tsp65950 instead of twl3040	22:14
DocScrutinizer	probably canonical isn't the worst you can find	22:14
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Shapeshifter	hrw: can you kick the guy that decided licensing H.264?	22:14
Shapeshifter	or girl	22:14
javispedro	but the ips is pin compatible with the 3040 iirc	22:14
Shapeshifter	who knows	22:14
hrw	DocScrutinizer: ;)	22:14
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: huh?	22:14
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javispedro	I was once thinking of buying http://www.igep.es/images/stories/igepv2_rc_photo2.jpg	22:15
javispedro	beagleboard-alike with wi-fi	22:15
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javispedro	note the usb host connected to ehci controller and otg to musb	22:15
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: no idea what's a igepv2, but on N900 we also have TSP65950 iirc, aka TWL5030/4030	22:16
javispedro	s/ips/tsp :P	22:16
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: I think the tsp65950 is the 4030 with fixed charger detection	22:17
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DocScrutinizer	echo musb_hdrc >unload; modprobe OHCI_HCD	22:18
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DocScrutinizer	I wonder how we should 'disable bme' like suggested by blue_led	22:19
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: (fixed chrg_det) makes sense	22:20
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javispedro	hm, they do not share pins	22:21
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: please also read http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB every now and then	22:21
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javispedro	ah, interesting.	22:22
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javispedro	another interesting test would be to try to boot a host mode only kernel. this probably will be more easy with a meego image or something less prone to crashing on boot.	22:25
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javispedro	aiui beagleboards with those.	22:26
javispedro	*work.	22:26
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javispedro	btw in case you're interesting when looking through the kernel, the n8x0 host stuff is in the n900 kernel. instead of omap2430.c they use http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/tusb6010.c	22:28
* pupnik toasts javispedro and channel		22:28
javispedro	*interested.	22:28
* javispedro zaps pupnik		22:28
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javispedro	at least we know the n8x0 one works perfectly.	22:29
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* javispedro --> out.		22:30
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DocScrutinizer	gah	22:31
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Khertan	lol ... while looking at ohloh.net for the first time	22:36
Khertan	i look at ranking ...	22:36
Khertan	https://www.ohloh.net/people/rankings?show=19906	22:36
Khertan	and just before my position i see GeneralAntilles	22:36
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Khertan	:)	22:36
Khertan	héhé	22:36
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: search schematics for 'Vdigimic'; please tell me what you think	22:38
Viliny_	Khertan: i thought you were top 3 at first :)	22:40
Khertan	and ... nope :)	22:40
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Khertan	but from what i see many of my project aren't in this tracker	22:40
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Khertan	about maemo on ohloh : Decreasing year-over-year development activity	22:42
Khertan	:)	22:42
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frals	where does it pull from?	22:43
lcuk	Khertan, then get coding more	22:43
Khertan	lcuk, yep	22:43
Khertan	but as i'm learning a new framework	22:44
Khertan	i made many mistake :)	22:44
Khertan	but it s in progress :	22:44
lcuk	if generalantilles is ahead of you then that means its not noticing everything	22:44
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Khertan	http://gitorious.org/khteditor < :)	22:45
Khertan	it s funny to see that highlighting syntax and kinectic scrolling are more faster in qt	22:45
Khertan	(and easier to do)	22:45
lcuk	is there really that big a difference when you are coding in python?	22:46
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Khertan	hum ... the framework :)	22:46
oilgame_	I have problem with apt-get -> I cant install or upgrade anything, it just says "E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)". Graphical application manager installs applications without any problems. http://pastebin.org/207782	22:46
Khertan	a framework that take for search a regex	22:47
Khertan	and one that didn't use it ... mean that you need to do it yourself	22:47
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Khertan	so you pass more time in python ... so a bit slower	22:47
Khertan	but a counter example is the keyPressEvent	22:47
Khertan	i didn't understand why it s slower than the equivalent things with gtk	22:48
Khertan	and yes this make diff	22:48
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DocScrutinizer	597 * REVISIT: It would be possible to add support for changing between host	22:57
DocScrutinizer	598 * and peripheral modes in non-OTG configurations by reconfiguring hardware	22:57
DocScrutinizer	599 * and then setting musb->board_mode. For now, only support OTG mode.	22:57
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DocScrutinizer	from http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/tusb6010.c	22:57
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pupnik	are we hunting wabbits?	23:09
Viliny_	does having battery eye and battery graph contribute noticeably to the battery getting drained?	23:12
Viliny_	i mean if they track the battery life constantly	23:13
DocScrutinizer	might be	23:13
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DocScrutinizer	what's wabbits?	23:14
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DocScrutinizer	~dict wabbit	23:14
infobot	Dictionary 'wabbit' (1 of 2): /wab'it/ [almost certainly from Elmer Fudd's immortal line "You wascawwy wabbit!"] 1. A legendary early hack reported on a System/360 at RPI and elsewhere around 1978; this may have descended (if only by inspiration) from hack called RABBITS reported from 1969 on a Burroughs 55000 at the University of Washington Computer Center. The program would make two copies of itself every time it was run, eventually crashing ...	23:15
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Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBAZidONziI at :28	23:15
DocScrutinizer	forkbomb?	23:15
Viliny_	DocScrutinizer - if the beforementioned apps constantly wake the processor or something to that effect?	23:15
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DocScrutinizer	Viliny_: yep, possibly	23:16
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Viliny_	is there a program for maemo like the one i had in ubuntu from ... intel or nvidia which diagnosed the laptop to determine worst cpu wake uppers?	23:17
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Viliny_	and then suggest steps to get better battery life?	23:17
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lcuk	Viliny_, theres powertop	23:18
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lcuk	but if its in ubuntu - is it a gui app?	23:18
lcuk	or just a console report?	23:18
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Shapeshifter	mh. powertop ain't packaged.	23:19
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lcuk	Shapeshifter, http://maemo.org/packages/view/powertop/ ?	23:22
Shapeshifter	:[	23:23
Shapeshifter	apt-cache search powertop didn't show it >.>	23:23
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DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: I had to download the pkg somewhere. Sorry forgot the source URL	23:24
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Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: mhh	23:26
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Cabletwitch	Yo	23:26
Shapeshifter	but this is odd. if it's on the packages page, why can't I find it in extras-devel	23:27
Cabletwitch	I appear to have confused the media player somewhat XD	23:27
ManoftheSea	Hello, I'm not a bot, but I will be immediately going idle.	23:27
Shapeshifter	ah wait. "building failed"	23:27
Shapeshifter	it's broken and the packager didn't finish his job ;)	23:27
lcuk	ManoftheSea, why?	23:27
Cabletwitch	Anyone have any clue as to how you'd nuke phantom entries in the media players library?	23:28
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Cabletwitch	Its gone from claiming 11k files to jjst over 5k, but its driving me mental.	23:29
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Cabletwitch	On a related note, dont ever copy the entire L4D2 folder to your N900 unless you want the same problem XD	23:29
SpeedEvil	Cabletwitch: nule the tracker db	23:30
MohammadAG	tracker-processes -r	23:30
Cabletwitch	Hmm. A terminal job, then?	23:31
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SpeedEvil	/home/user/.tracker/*	23:31
Cabletwitch	Lemme guess, gonna need to go root to do that?	23:31
SpeedEvil	yes	23:31
SpeedEvil	well - actually - no	23:31
DocScrutinizer	for /home/user? I'd be surprised	23:32
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Cabletwitch	You may recall I'm barely above new user with these sorts of things. Be gentle :O)	23:32
DocScrutinizer	Nokia'd be better off keeping away from tracker a lightyear	23:33
Cabletwitch	I'm the system-proof idiot that manages to stuff up idiot-proof systems.	23:33
ManoftheSea	lcuk: because I'll be coming back eventually, and I'll be able to view the community standards.	23:33
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ruskie	fun... finally the ~/ filesystem crashed and took most of the data with it on the n900	23:33
DocScrutinizer	uuh	23:34
Cabletwitch	Glad to know I'm not the only one breaking stuff.	23:34
ruskie	well this was just normal use	23:34
lcuk	ManoftheSea, thats reasonable - where do you normally hang out and what sort of community do you expect to see here?	23:34
ruskie	repartitioned mmc but still if the init process supported fscking every so often this wouldn't have happened	23:35
ManoftheSea	I'll be asking questions. But I love my linux handheld. Away now	23:35
ruskie	I think I went through some 10 fscks on all mmc partitions using the handy bootmenu.sh and a fbcon capable kernel :)	23:36
ruskie	the 10 fscks were due to all the errors that kept happening	23:36
* Cabletwitch understood about 10% of what ruskie said.		23:36
ruskie	now I'm wondering if I should reimport contacts and configure it back to par or reflash it with meego and have a play with that or reflash it with 1.1 and go from there again	23:38
ShadowJK	I fsck'd non-mounted /home and that nuked it :)	23:38
DocScrutinizer	Cabletwitch: listen to MohammadAG !	23:38
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: tracker-processes [OPTION...] - Manage Tracker processes and data; -r, --hard-reset This will kill all Tracker processes and remove all databases	23:39
DocScrutinizer	err	23:39
DocScrutinizer	Cabletwitch: ^^^	23:39
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ShadowJK	it was "mounted with errors" but working fine before that.. I shouldn't have ran fsck :)	23:39
Cabletwitch	so... tracker-processes --hard-reset?	23:39
ruskie	ShadowJK, yeah same here... though it wasn't working fine	23:40
ruskie	was losing files and so on	23:40
Cabletwitch	I'll go give that a try. See if I cant break something else while I'm at it.	23:40
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ruskie	you can't put a fs that requires maintenance every so often and skip the maintenance	23:40
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ruskie	good thing I have some backup of all the stuff from january or so	23:43
DocScrutinizer	fsck fuckng instead fsckng isn't really nice, it's fsckng nasty	23:43
Cabletwitch	No, that didnt work. looks like the entries for these files are still present in the system, even after the files were deleted.	23:43
DocScrutinizer	Cabletwitch: that's really strange	23:44
DocScrutinizer	Cabletwitch: you restarted the mediaplayer?	23:44
Cabletwitch	Might have had something do do with it going mental while removong said files.	23:44
MohammadAG	tracker-processes --hard-reset	23:44
MohammadAG	check /home space	23:44
Cabletwitch	Restarted everything.	23:44
MohammadAG	check /home space	23:44
DocScrutinizer	~nuke tracker	23:44
DocScrutinizer	gah	23:45
DocScrutinizer	~ping	23:45
infobot	~pong	23:45
* Cabletwitch goes to check...		23:45
DocScrutinizer	wtf?	23:45
DocScrutinizer	~nuke tracker	23:45
MohammadAG	tracker is protected by nokia	23:45
DocScrutinizer	~lart tracker	23:45
* infobot beats tracker to within 2.54cm of his life		23:45
MohammadAG	~nuke infobot	23:45
DocScrutinizer	~factinfo nuke	23:45
infobot	nuke -- last modified at Fri Jul 7 07:31:41 2006 by mikk1!i=bofh@81-233-236-26-no19.tbcn.telia.com; it has been requested 15 times, last by Tuukka, 4d 8h 26m 51s ago.	23:45
DocScrutinizer	:-S	23:46
MohammadAG	~nuke	23:47
infobot	Cockroach. I win.	23:47
MohammadAG	o.O	23:47
DocScrutinizer	~docscrutinizer	23:47
infobot	[docscrutinizer] jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko	23:47
DocScrutinizer	don't get it	23:47
MohammadAG	~nuke	23:48
infobot	Cockroach. I win.	23:48
MohammadAG	wtf	23:48
DocScrutinizer	~nuke x	23:48
Cabletwitch	Ok, nothing out of the ordinary, as far as my untrained eye can see.	23:48
MohammadAG	home isn't 100%?	23:48
Cabletwitch	I wonder if whatever equivilant of the FAT table didnt get updated properly when it spazzed out while deleting those files.	23:49
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Cabletwitch	MohammadAG: I'm really unfamiliar with linux and its filesystem, so all I can tell you is there are no unexpected files.	23:49
Cabletwitch	This is me on my learning cliff.	23:50
MohammadAG	df, and see how much space is free	23:51
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lcuk	~df	23:52
infobot	rumour has it, df is at the top of the shot as well, reporting I still have 1.1M available - 62% usage	23:52
Cabletwitch	One sec...	23:52
lcuk	Cabletwitch, df shows you all the partitions/mounts in use and their free space	23:52
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lcuk	we should really have decent explanations of the common maemo stuff	23:52
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lcuk	and whats expected for a normal run	23:53
Cabletwitch	Ok, so what ma	23:53
lcuk	simple help yourself steps	23:53
Cabletwitch	ma?	23:53
* lcuk mmms		23:53
Cabletwitch	What am I looking for?	23:53
lcuk	MohammadAG, what does he need to check	23:53
Cabletwitch	Done the df, need to know what to tell you.	23:53
* lcuk came into convo half way through		23:54
MohammadAG	/home	23:54
lcuk	rootfs should have some space avail, tell us the use % also	23:54
DocScrutinizer	got .thumbnails and /home/user/.local/share/tracker but no .tracker	23:54
MohammadAG	/dev/mmcblk0p2 2064208 1561328 398024 80% /home	23:55
MohammadAG	that	23:55
Cabletwitch	Ahh, one sec.	23:55
Cabletwitch	Mine is /dev/mmcblk0p1, and its... 13%	23:56
DocScrutinizer	nope	23:57
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Cabletwitch	No, my bad.	23:57
DocScrutinizer	that's MyDocs	23:57
Cabletwitch	Missed the right one XD	23:57
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Cabletwitch	10%	23:57
Cabletwitch	Presumably, thats the free space?	23:58
DocScrutinizer	nope	23:58
DocScrutinizer	used space	23:58
DocScrutinizer	afaik	23:58
Cabletwitch	Ahh, thats less worrying then.	23:58
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Cabletwitch	If nothing else, I'm learning :O)	23:59
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