IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-05-07

kokoszwho needs MMS ? email your pix instead00:00
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lcukkokosz, majority of population of existing phone users dont have email on phones/configured00:00
* javispedro thinks that, in typical rushed software development fashion, one would just introduce a daemon that periodically kills browserd instead of fixing its memory leaks ;P00:00
Stskeepsi thought that was what flash plugin did00:01
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javispedroyes, well.00:01
javispedroif adobe decided to drop that useful feature...00:01
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javispedrojust hope that the adobe-periodic-crash-simulator-daemon is released under an OSS license.00:01
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kokoszread it and weep peeps: http://maemocentral.m/2010/05/06/here-is-why-the-pr-1-2-firmware-for-then-n900-is-late/00:08
lcukServer not found00:08
lcukFirefox can't find the server at www.maemocentral.m.00:08
* lcuk weeps00:08
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javispedroor read the original eero post in the mailing lists.00:10
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lcuki did earlier00:10
lcukor i could just read the commits on gitorious of course00:10
javispedropoor eero, now his opinions are going to be understood as official Nokia PR stuff as soon as this gets on the interwebs00:11
lcukopen source remember00:11
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javispedrolcuk: save for the sgx :)00:11
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Trewassheesh, now they want to release PR1.2 without regressions, why the hell they then broke streaming avi's in PR1.1 and "fixed" it in january, yet refuse to ship that as an update :P00:11
ChikuA. Releases are not based on calendar, but on them being ready, based on testing results. (Hm. Is Maemo showing its Debian roots?) <-- debian got calendar since last year00:12
Chikuwith 2 years release cycle00:12
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kokoszi'm praying they fix that damn email bug where the delete button is grayed out00:13
TrewasChiku: no they don't, there was some debate about the release schedule to co-incide with ubuntu but that did not realize00:13
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javispedrokokosz: you could know that by a) looking at the bug report b) downloading the updated version of the modest source and building it.00:13
javispedrochoose one! no need for pr1.200:14
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Chikuthis lien is funny... so HK native PR1.2 is too buggy one00:15
ChikuHK buyers bought and buying buggy PR1.2 so ?00:15
* DocScrutinizer honestly doubts the why-1.2-is-late will bring any good bit to the rotten mood of screaming whining tmo crowd00:15
kokoszthe chinese 1.2 flying around is buggy?00:16
BCMMfor anybody trying to watch the UK election: (front page) streams BBC news better than the BCC site for me00:16
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kokoszBCMM: on the N900?00:17
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BCMMblockier, but full framerate and perfect AV sync00:17
DocScrutinizerchinese people are used to use crap XP00:17
BCMMoh, it also puts "Livestation" in the corner00:17
BCMMbut not it big letters00:17
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BCMMoh, and you need to mouseover with mouse mode to get the fullscreen button00:19
BCMMeasiest is to just click the video (pausing it)00:19
* DocScrutinizer wonders how many HK users are whining about their 1.2 being such a drag compared to the nicely stable 1.1.1 all the rest of the world is allowed to use :-D00:19
BCMM(rather than using mouse mode)00:19
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:21
Chikuany HK users reported it?00:21
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Chikumaybe not so buggy00:21
SpeedEviliplayer on the n900 is actually usable.00:22
Chikuor nokia want to lose asian market00:22
Trewaswas the leaked version actually the same that ships with HK n900?00:24
DocScrutinizerhonestly - Nokia probably found the HK 1.2 being 'good enough' to start rollout at HK, but it's probably not such a leap ahead yet from 1.1.1 to justify a worldwide release. I'm appreciating that reasoning, and probably HK users do as well, and all the "where's my 1.2??!!eleven" fools should too00:24
Chikuwhen hk pr released00:24
javispedroare you even sure the HK release has anything to do at all with our releases?00:25
Joonaswhat is HK?00:25
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Chikuhong kong00:25
javispedrofor all we know, their definition of "1.2" might be completely different to our definition of 1.200:25
Chikuyou mean hk 1.2 is 1.1.2 ? :)00:25
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: of course I'm not00:25
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: ack00:26
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I pointed at that fact several times00:26
kokoszthat dude from Nokia ... Arsi Jaki or something is running his peeps know which one?00:26
javispedrobut nobody listens... I know that :)00:26
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javispedro"dude from Nokia" is head of maemo devices00:27
DocScrutinizerand his name is Ari Jaksi afaik00:27
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lcukmeego devices *00:28
SpeedEvil1.2 may not be the leaked 1.200:28
DocScrutinizerArsi sounds rather odd00:28
MohammadAG_was tmo pushed off a cliff?00:28
ShapeshifterMohammadAG_: hopefully?00:29
DocScrutinizerI guess that leaked crap has NOWHERE written 1.2 on it00:29
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DocScrutinizerthere's no cliff high enough for tmo00:30
middleearthradiogreetings. anyone aware of any efforts to attempt to port kwordquiz to the Nokia n900? If not, any up front caveats I should be aware of in attempting to port it over to n900? thanks.00:31
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kokoszArsi...Ari... whomever. .. he has the true 1.200:31
DocScrutinizerand I have a N980 prototype board - so what?00:32
MohammadAG_<javispedro> "dude from Nokia" is head of maemo (s/maemo/meego) devices00:32
lbtkokosz: did he get it from a chinese site though?00:32
kokoszlucky him00:32
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kokoszif that Ari dude is running 1.2 it must be close to releasing no?00:33
Shapeshifterkokosz: go drink some warm milk and relax00:33
* DocScrutinizer really wonders what *** practics kokosz intends to undertake 'his' 1.2 once he gets hands on it00:33
javispedro1.2 will end world hunger!00:33
javispedroand cure cancer!00:34
MohammadAG_PR1.2 testing builds might have begun since january....00:34
lbtis it out then?00:34
Shapeshifterjavispedro: but can it cure cancer in portrait mode?00:34
SpeedEvil1kokosz: People were almost certainly running '1.2' release candidates a month or two after 1.1.1 came out00:34
* DocScrutinizer SIGHS00:34
MohammadAG_Shapeshifter, no, but it runs Crysis00:34
MohammadAG_how about someone sets mode +m here :P00:34
javispedroin fact, people at nokia at this point are running 1.3~git+1.4modest00:34
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GAN900javispedro, MeeGo devices.00:35
GAN900javispedro, also, MeeGo operations00:35
kokoszdo you peeps have the link to that dude's site? Ari or whatwever???00:35
GAN900We've come full circle!00:35
javispedroI've been corrected thrice! what's this meego you're speaking about!00:35
GAN900kokosz, http://jaaksi.blogspot.com00:35
MohammadAG_he's head of MeeGo devices :P00:35
kokoszGAN900: thanks00:36
Triztis there a body?00:36
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DocScrutinizerbah, boozetime00:37
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Trewaswhy I think pr1.2 matters is that that maybe some software makers could give a flying fuck about n900 after pr1.2 with qt4.6 is available, now pretty much nobody seems interested in making software to it00:37
tybollthmm looks to be Cameron in a hung parliament after all eh?00:37
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DocScrutinizerTrewas: orly??00:38
Shapeshifterhuh, what's this
tybolltI'll give it a year before we'll see a reelection00:38
* Trizt thinks he sees new applications almost every day00:38
Shapeshifterah wait, I think I saw that in ovi store once00:38
TrewasDocScrutinizer: jalry!00:38
Shapeshifterthe "i" in the lower left corner gives it away as one of the *-touch apps00:38
tybolltShapeshifter: doubt you're doing 801km/h00:38
tybolltREALLY doubt it :)00:38
Shapeshiftertybollt: that's from aris blog00:38
Shapeshifterin a plane00:38
tybolltoh ok :)00:38
tybolltplane would make sense of course ;)00:39
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pancakeim using sdl in n900, but every click i get some invalid MOUSEMOTION events00:40
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pancakewell. i get like 3 mousemotion events in different positions00:40
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javispedrothat doesn't seem invalid; this is a touch screen we're talking about.00:41
pancakebut it's a click00:41
javispedronot really00:41
javispedrothink of it00:41
javispedroif the sequence were mousedown -> mousemotion to correct position00:41
lcukpancake, log the mousemotion events and press once in the centre of the screen00:41
pancakei was testing it with the pen00:41
lcukand pastebin the result00:41
javispedroevery tap would read as a drag event00:41
lcukjust once as close to 400,240 as you can00:41
pancakei already did that test, let me ssh again00:42
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lcuklets see how "invalid" you mean00:42
lcukpancake, it will just hep us understand00:43
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lcukjavispedro, have you seen what MohammadAG_ did?00:44
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pancakeim using sdl 1.300:45
lcukneat little effect00:45
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DocScrutinizeralas conflicts a little with mce00:46
lcukits fun00:46
lcukafaik doesnt r&d mode do something similar00:46
lcukjust for a practical purpose00:46
MohammadAG_<DocScrutinizer> alas conflicts a little with mce00:47
MohammadAG_nope, bypassed it :)00:47
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DocScrutinizerI doubt00:47
MohammadAG_old version killed mce00:47
MohammadAG_now it just kills the engine and restores it later00:47
DocScrutinizerprobably you can spoil the pattern by pressing arbitrary key, but hey, sow what00:47
MohammadAG_echo disabled > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/engine3_mode and echo 0 > /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0032/leds\:lp5523\:kb*/brightness  to shut off all the LEDs00:48
pancake2 clicks log00:48
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MohammadAG_sliding the keyboard while it's running otoh...00:48
MohammadAG_btw for some reason, when running mce the LEDs turn off 1 second after echoing, if mce is off, they stay on00:48
lcukDocScrutinizer, hes gonna have it lighting nearest key00:48
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lcukpancake, where on the screen did you actually click00:49
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MohammadAG_lcuk, when I figure out how to detect keystrokes in python I'll do that ;)00:49
DocScrutinizermce is restoring the engine3 whenever a kbd event or timeout event would cause kbd backlight to come up or go dim00:49
MohammadAG_still googling around00:49
PhonicUKhey everyoen00:49
pancakein the place where down says00:49
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PhonicUKhey MohammadAG, hows your little experiment go?00:49
lcukok, so the initial tap is actually correct00:49
lcukit just wanders immediately?00:49
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lcukyou dont make a stroke motion?00:49
MohammadAG_not bad, although it's not tied to a VU,
lcukits a tap tap00:50
pancakejust click00:50
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PhonicUKthat a script or app?00:50
MohammadAG_will add this to the wiki later
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MohammadAG_script, .sh, lcuk helped, as usual :)00:51
PhonicUKand me too ^_^00:51
MohammadAG_lol, when I tie it to the VU I'll say that :P00:51
MohammadAG_thanks though :P00:51
pancakelcuk: any idea?00:51
lcukpancake, so you first clicked in bottom right of screen00:52
lcukthen second click was top left00:53
lcukin the centre of the quadrant basically00:53
javispedrothe issue here is the big offset between the position reported by mousedown event and position reported by mouseup00:53
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javispedroofc it seems weird sdl1.3 would cause such an offset.00:53
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pancake2nd click is top right00:53
lcuksorry yes00:54
lcukdoes it do this normally00:54
lcukie can you use your screen in sketch etc?00:54
lcukJUST TRY IT00:54
lcukbecause if you had an n810 i would say check for grit00:54
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lcukaround the bezel00:54
lcukcan you draw the points it makes and save framebuffer?00:55
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pancakeye i can write this00:56
pancakewill take a while00:56
pancakedunno if tehre's any example somewhere00:56
PhonicUKhas anyone done an edge test on the N900 touchscreen?00:56
javispedroare you for any reason using multiple fingers?00:56
lcukyeah phonic00:56
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PhonicUKhowd it come out?00:56
lcukit works00:56
PhonicUKis there a vid somewhere?00:57
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lcukPhonicUK, have you not got yourself a 90000:59
PhonicUKof course :P00:59
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lcukthen make a vid :P00:59
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PhonicUKomg warzone2100?01:02
PhonicUKno way01:02
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PhonicUKanyone know what the package is called?01:03
PhonicUKi cant find it01:03
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MohammadAG_<PhonicUK> anyone know what the package is called? < ?01:04
PhonicUKfor Warzone 210001:04
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PhonicUKi wanna play it01:05
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lcukoh fiddlesticks01:06
lcukmy desktop icons have vanished on ubuntu01:06
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lcukanyone know what console incantation i need to poke to get em back01:07
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lcuksomething randomly crashes01:07
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tybolltthat's kinda linux desktop for you01:09
tybollt"ooops something randomly crashed taking half the desktop w/ it..."01:09
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kevloralhi all01:11
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MohammadAG_<lcuk> my desktop icons have vanished on ubuntu01:18
MohammadAG_nautilus crashed01:18
MohammadAG_or you killed it01:18
* MohammadAG_ switches to the other nick01:18
lcukw00t yeah :)D01:18
lcukthanks MohammadAG_01:18
lcukrestarted it with nautilus &01:19
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pancakefixed :D01:26
javispedropancake: so what was it?01:27
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pancakein touchscreens01:27
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pancakethe mousedown x,y is the one from the previous movement01:27
pancakeso, you then get the new position01:27
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javispedrothat might be actually a bug.01:27
pancakei will add a compile-time option01:28
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javispedroas I was explaining ideally you should to motion event first THEN the down event.01:28
pancakebut maybe nice to do it at runtime..but fixing would be great01:28
javispedrothus getting updated coordinates by the down event time.01:28
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GAN900Yo, pancake.01:29
* javispedro ponders something for a moment..01:29
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markinfon810 - how to make "right click" ?01:30
javispedrono universal way by default01:31
javispedromost gtk apps -- long tap01:31
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markinfojavispedro, hm - at east skype accept that.01:32
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markinfohow to get Skype in Notification Statusbar?   "close" Button want to shutdown skype.   Pidgi works properly.01:34
PhonicUKI wanna game like Wipeout for Maemo01:35
PhonicUKmaybe i'll learn how to use Ogre and make one01:35
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markinfoOS2008  ... /var/log   is completely empty. Where are logs? or must be activated?01:52
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genewitchanyone around today that can help me with the n800 RSS feed reader?01:55
javispedromarkinfo: must be _installed_, as by default no syslog daemon is installed.01:56
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DocScrutinizer51javispedro: which is kinda pitty02:00
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markinfojavispedro, what is the package name for syslog daemon?02:01
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genewitchThe rss feed reader on the n800 stopped refreshing 8/9 of my feeds02:05
genewitchmanual or automatically.02:06
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markinfojavispedro, there is no package "sysklogd"02:10
javispedromarkinfo: you need to enable tools repository02:10
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javispedroOTG state: a_idle :P02:26
javispedro Mode=Peripheral :(02:26
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markinfojavispedro, "Note!: To have these tools visible in the Application manager, you need to have the Red Pill Mode activated. "  link goes nowhere.02:32
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javispedromarkinfo: ignore that and use apt-get02:32
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N900eviljavispedro: anything more? - dsl died02:36
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markinfojavispedro, sysklog works already. Syslog is full with many messages "EAC mode:play disabled, rec disabled" every 5 seconds.02:43
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* GAN900 pokes javispedro.02:47
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kthomas_vhway to reinstall n810 standard web browser (it seems dead)?02:50
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markinfohm - the same Question - what is the standard browser at all? There is no name or version.02:55
* SpeedEvil suffers context switching problems.02:57
SpeedEvilmarkinfo: this is for n810?02:57
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MohammadAGmicroB afaik02:57
MohammadAG(not sure about the N8**)02:57
markinfoI would like to have some Browser with html5 support.02:57
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javispedroStatus: MHDRC, Mode=Host02:58
javispedroinactive :(02:58
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javispedroI'm not getting any interrupts whenever I plug in a self powered hub02:59
kthomas_vhI'd like to have a browser other than FF1,  which keeps crashing :)02:59
javispedrobut as soon as I plug the n900 into the hub as a gadget, interrupt storm.02:59
javispedrowhatever the musb driver state.02:59
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* javispedro thinks this will require now careful reading of the isp170x datasheets03:00
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markinfostandard browser in OS2008 sends User Agent: Firefox 3.003:00
genewitchis there a way to reinstall stuff like the browser or the feed reader?03:01
markinfois there a chance for firefox 3.6?03:01
kthomas_vhkthomas_vh:  reinstall the microbe-engine deb package using dpkg.03:01
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markinfoI heard about Fenec browser.03:02
genewitchnone of the browsers work for me except the stock one in os200803:02
genewitchmidori and the other webkit one03:02
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markinfoWho is doing software for OS2008 at all? Or preparig packages?03:03
genewitchno idea03:03
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markinfoare there some maintainers like in Debian?03:06
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markinfogenewitch, midori is very old version in repositories.03:08
MohammadAGjavispedro, so... host mode didn't work for you?03:10
javispedroMohammadAG: I'm just trying to break it, nothing new.03:10
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markinfoand webkit is also very old version  from 2008 year.03:13
markinfois there a way how to get newer versions of programs on n810?03:14
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javispedrohey, at least, I broke charging already.03:24
markinfogenewitch, Fennec browser on n810
lcuksupposing i have written a simple app in python03:26
lcukit cleanly uses pyqt api and has class based structure03:27
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lcukis it possible to examine the python execution model and produce a c++ representation of that code03:27
lcukfor clean compilation and transfer to a regular fast c++ binary03:27
janneglcuk: there's shedskin03:28
lcukan app?03:28
jannegit probably can't handle pyqt03:28
lcukwell that can be examined03:28
jannegit's an restricted python to C++ compiler03:28
lcukive got code here that needs to be native03:28
lcuki can grep the resulting stuff and fix it03:28
lcukbut i want the basic structure to come from it03:29
lcuknice, thanks for the tip jenn03:29
lcukyeah im on there now03:29
lcukthats a really good tip :) im gonna post it on the python speedups page03:30
lcukits not a solution for everything, but if it saves the "getting started" part of converting a slow branch03:30
lcukit will be worth it03:30
Myrttiright, I'm officially calling my attempts to do HD video editing on my Dell Latitude Laptop with Linux applications vain and futile...03:30
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Myrttisorry if I've kept people waiting for the Linux Collaboration Summit Meego Workgroup videos03:31
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markinfowhat is      /pub/       "chinook" like squeeze in debian?03:35
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SpeedEvil - todays 'hacking is cool' post. Truly small fly.03:37
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Myrttimarkinfo: it's like hardy/intrepid/jaunty etc in Ubuntu (the comparison to Ubuntu in this sense fits better since Maemo certainly isn't a rolling release thing)03:41
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markinfohm - I have OS2008 - that is not "chinook" ?03:46
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javispedroOS2008 is chinook, OS2008 Feature Pack is Diablo03:51
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Termanagood morning03:54
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DocScrutinizerwtf? quiet earth?04:17
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MohammadAGi'm off04:30
MohammadAGNight all04:30
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* DocScrutinizer waves04:52
GAN900Myrtti, it's OK, even roblimo agrees.04:55
DocScrutinizerEHLO GAN90004:56
GAN900Howdy, DocScrutinizer.04:56
GAN900How's kicks?04:56
DocScrutinizerpowerbutton borked - - - pissed04:56
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DocScrutinizerthough I learn how to engage it even while it's messed up04:57
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: pondering to get a devel device dedicated to messing around with host mode -watching your karma and thinking "screw it"05:00
* DocScrutinizer wonders how tmo is contributing to friggin karma, or if karma is a worthwhile currency for anything at all05:02
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DocScrutinizeranyway swamped... cya05:04
javispedrothis is too hard05:06
GAN900javispedro, use your council powers to extort the required info from Nokia!05:07
javispedroso I set up the isp1707 registers conveniently05:07
javispedrodisabling DM and DP pull downs,05:08
DocScrutinizersorry dudes, seems I'm not able to keep up with it05:08
DocScrutinizerright now05:08
SpeedEviljavispedro: Any change in impedence/voltage?05:08
javispedroand after a few picoseconds the entire phy shuts off, and all I get while trying to use ulpi are timeouts05:08
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: waht??05:08
DocScrutinizerfriggin shit05:09
shinkamuithings are looking great05:09
shinkamuiat this point, I think Im gonna port over to tmobile US and buy the mugen battery05:09
DocScrutinizershinkamui: sure05:09
DocScrutinizershinkamui: fine05:09
shinkamuidocscrutinizer whats wrong G?05:09
shinkamuidid I miss something interesting?05:10
DocScrutinizer+q or reasonable contribution?05:10
shinkamuiwell, Im asking, I just logged into my bnc to chatter a little and you seem to be a little sarcastic05:11
shinkamuiso Im wondering if I said something wrong05:11
DocScrutinizernaAAAH g'nite05:11
shinkamuilol, ok then gnight05:11
MyrttiGAN900: agrees on what?05:11
GAN900Myrtti, that Linux video editing sucks.05:11
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: please either post to friggin tmo, or ping me tomorrow05:11
GAN900Myrtti, what he told me at FLS, anyway.05:11
shinkamuiso... has anyone used the jawbone icon yet?05:11
shinkamuiI hate bt headsets, but I really think wiht that + my 900, I found a winning combo05:12
shinkamuimy 8month cellular turnaround might be over...05:12
javispedroDocScrutinizer: will do05:12
MyrttiGAN900: I did honestly try to give some apps a fair shot. My laptop just had an apoplexy and decided that it didn't want to play ball05:13
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DocScrutinizermeanwhile council might consider to support my yet to come application at Fremantle_Developer_Device_Queue05:15
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DocScrutinizerI'm fed up with borking hardware, and my daily phone failing when I need it05:15
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shinkamuidoc: whats happening?05:16
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SpeedEvilHis button fell off.05:17
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shinkamuiroh noes!05:19
shinkamuipower button?05:19
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tekojoMorning Maemo!08:50
Dima_SharihinMorning =)08:51
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ossipenahi i have a astupid question: how do you add your software to bugzilla08:58
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Stskeepsasking andre usually08:59
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opdf2sometimes i play movies on a tv from my n900. Is there a way to control the playback with a wiimote?09:00
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ossipenaStskeeps thanks for the info09:00
ossipenajust found a correct wiki page09:00
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ManjiriHow does one install a .deb on N900\09:10
ManjiriI have compiled a test application into a debian package with target armel. I have copied the debian package to my N900 from my PC09:12
ManjiriHow do I install it09:12
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Dima_Sharihinsudo dpkg -i your_package.deb?09:13
Manjiriit asks for root password09:14
ossipenasudo gainroot09:14
ossipenaafter that dpkg ....09:14
ManjiriHow do I install rootsh?09:14
ossipenause HAM09:14
ossipenaapplication manager09:15
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ManjiriI am having trouble getting updates from the App manager09:16
ManjiriSo I downloaded the rootsh.install file09:16
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ossipenayou have to use application manager I think09:16
ManjiriI tried to click on it to install, it opens app manager09:16
Manjiriand I get unable to find package09:17
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ossipenado you have connection to internet?09:17
Manjiriyes wifi09:17
ossipenathere is something wrong with your application manager then09:18
TTilusfinally got bt keyboard working properly09:18
ManjiriDo I need to make any connection settings in app manager ?09:18
ossipenathere is no such settings09:18
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ManjiriCoz when I say 'update' from app manager, it throws proxy auth required ...09:18
ossipenatheres your problem:network09:19
ManjiriI am able to browse sites though09:19
ossipenado you use proxy?09:19
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ossipenahttp is different than app manager09:19
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ossipenaso the problem is that ham doesnt like your connection09:20
ManjiriI have set proxy details in internet connections09:20
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ossipenathe proxy probably restricts the connectivity of ham09:21
ManjiriIs there no offline way to install apps?09:22
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opdf2anyone change the softvol of mplayer? is 400 safe?09:25
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zokierManjiri, dpkg can install apps from .deb packages09:44
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opdf2nm yes it is safe09:45
opdf2soo... I was thinking of mapping sftp drive to n900 media folders for wireless sync, but since the eMMC is still mounted, is that safe?09:45
ManjiriI know, but I either need pwd or rootsh installed09:46
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zokieroh, you got kinda chicken-egg problem there09:50
ManjiriI Know zokier.09:51
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ManjiriIs it true that Applcation manager on N900 has trouble with proxies?09:52
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fraggelnanyone using fmms with 3(Sweden) ?10:07
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alteregoUK Politics :)10:11
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RST38h...and good mourning to you all10:17
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TTilusupdated the wiki
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Stskeepsdouble paste10:19
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Stskeepsscary, they're actually pulling some form of usb host off10:43
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alteregoscary? :P10:43
Stskeepsyou should read the discussions10:43
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alteregoYeah, I'll wait until they get it working before I start messing with the most important connector on the device :D10:45
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ShadowJKStskeeps, if it gets to a working state we need to poke Nokia :P10:46
ShadowJKabout bme10:47
Stskeepsi'm more pondering if the usb host advertisement was actually a challenge to recruit people10:47
ShadowJKah well10:47
ShadowJKMight also be an idea to check out how far the Droid people got with host mode10:47
ShadowJKiirc they were also having problems10:48
RST38hheya ShadowJK, Stskeeps10:48
RST38hEvil USB hackers10:48
Dima_SharihinI want usb host!!! =)10:51
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tybollto_O Stskeeps usb host? what what?10:52
fraggelnis there a videocamera app for the n900?10:53
ShadowJKa what?10:53
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tybolltsjk: I'm gussing fraggeln means the camcorder mode of the camera app :-)10:55
ShadowJKI was going to ask if he means something that does exactly the same thing as the camera app..10:57
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tybolltadmitedly it's not very easy to "find" the camcorder mode...10:57
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tybolltit's not super obvious10:58
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furunk3ly helo thar!11:04
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N900evilI don't think much of the new government. My DSL fell over at 9am.11:17
asjyou guys formed a govt?11:18
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tybolltno they did not11:25
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: Stskeeps: fun11:26
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SpeedEvilIf the vusb wasn't from the 1707 - then I can't imagine it had a stable vcc11:28
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SpeedEvilIf the boost cap of the twl4030 isn't there - it can't provide any boost11:28
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: , '11:32
StskeepsSenior Electronics Engineer, MeeGo UI HW Techologies team11:32
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: might be of interest to you (go look at it)11:32
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: indeed11:33
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Dima_SharihinIf this is the case, then VBUS is going to be very low - under 3V? || Can we connect +5V on VBUS directly?11:34
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SpeedEvilyes, easily11:47
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adisbladisHow can i get screen locking disabled while charging?11:51
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SpeedEvilthere is a 'screen stays on when charging'11:51
adisbladisThat is screen stays lit11:52
adisbladisI want the screen lock disabled11:52
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tybolltfar as I know - no such thing11:52
TigerTael3rd party app?11:52
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adisbladisTigerTael: Do you know of any?11:53
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TigerTaelnot me ;/11:53
SpeedEviladisbladis: ah - I don't have lock on11:53
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ShadowJKAlso, DocScrutinizer tested and proved we can get stable +5V onto VBUS from the battery charger chip (bq24150)12:00
ShadowJKHowever, bme wants to have nothing of it, and kills it pretty soon. And if you halt bme, the system reboots pretty soon.12:01
RichardPdoes anyone else have issues with the N900 and wifi?  it connects to the router fine, but after a while just stops working - says its still connected, but MicroB cant load pages etc.  disconnecting and reconnecting the wifi works for a time and then it stops again.  no other system is having this issue with the same router12:01
ShadowJKHopefully if the USB side starts working, we can convince sts to go jab some nokia people to let us have a bme that allows us to run the battery charger in reverse :D12:01
tybolltRichardP: Yes, yes indeed12:01
SpeedEvilShadowJK: indeed.12:02
tybolltsjk: Run the battery charger in reverse? What in the name of hell are you on to?12:02
SpeedEvilShadowJK: But that's quite irrelevant for testing, as you can simply apply 5v externally12:02
SpeedEviltybollt: the battery charger has a output voltage boost mode12:02
ShadowJKI have something similar, where if I'm in weak signal, microb will think it's offline and everything else keeps working with lag12:02
SpeedEviltybollt: where it takes the battery voltage and outputs it on USB boosted, not charges the battery12:03
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ShadowJKtybollt, as it happens the battery charger chip (in N900) has a bonus feature... it can take battery voltage and output +5V :-)12:03
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ShadowJKAs opposed to the usual operation of taking +5V and making it into 3.2 ... 4.2V and putting it into the battery :)12:04
SpeedEvilThis is an inherent design of the chip, and requires no extra components12:04
tybolltso turbo-charging the bat?12:04
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SpeedEvilit's simply using it to supply the external USB socket for host/otg mode12:05
SpeedEvil(or designed to)12:05
tybolltah olrite12:05
SpeedEvilOTG of course can't work here.12:05
tybolltI thought (admittedly didn't research this) there were pins/wires missing for the full kahuna?12:06
SpeedEvilIt depends.12:06
ShadowJKfull kahuna being OTG12:06
SpeedEvilOTG can't work - there isn't enough pins12:06
ShadowJKbut nobody gives a shit about OTH12:06
SpeedEvilUSB host mode doesn't mind12:06
ShadowJKThe special cables are damn near impossible to find anyway :)12:06
tybolltit depends? *HEADEXPLODE*12:06
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tybolltso ol it requires is the firmware of the chip be fixed and a magic cable and ... I can haz?12:08
tybolltok, is it known whether stskeeps has a paypal account? ;)12:08
Stskeepsi don't take bribes12:08
SpeedEvilStskeeps isn't the only one working on it.12:08
SpeedEvilFor $100, I'd dedicate the next week to it :)12:09
Stskeepsif there's community work showing that usb host can happen with minimal change to a closed source process, i really doubt there would be resistance to making a patch and releasing the binary.12:09
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ShadowJKStskeeps, "minimal" is debatable :)12:10
tybolltserious note though... as someone (you?) wrote it... There's the USB spec thing. Nokia may get in trouble if doing this - right?12:10
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SpeedEviltybollt: for user-contributed firmware not distributed on the device - clearly not12:10
SpeedEviltybollt: For example - there is already an overclock kernel in extras-devel12:10
SpeedEvilthere is no reason a usb-host kernel couldn't pop up12:11
RichardPyay, Hung Parliament12:11
SpeedEvilRichardP: All of them?12:11
SpeedEvilRichardP: Way to go!12:11
SpeedEvilRichardP: The lords too?12:11
SpeedEvil np: Sex Pistols - Anarchy in the UK.12:12
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tybolltSpeedEvil: house of lords changed names - didn't you hear? house of corrupts now ;)12:12
tybolltand no I reckon as soon as clegg gets brown to step down he'll rule w/ the labour12:13
tybolltehr, govern...12:13
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ShadowJKStskeeps, it depends on how bme is structured... but seeing as it likes to grope the charger chip constantly, modifying it to if(!bq24150.boostmode){ grope(); grope(); poke(); nudge(); stroke(); coo(); } else { /* Community is taking their turn, hmpfh */ } would work ;)12:13
SpeedEviltybollt: labour + libdem does not quite equal a majority12:14
tybollteah it doesn't12:14
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Or of course rip BME out by the hairs.12:14
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SpeedEviltybollt: You can add the scottish and welsh nats, and get a majority - but...12:15
ShadowJKThe idea of a single party having more than 50% is a frightening thought to me :P12:15
tybolltSpeedEvil: :)12:15
StskeepsShadowJK: my main reason for assuming it might work is that nokians were using usb host in the past themselves :P12:15
Stskeepsie, as users12:15
SpeedEvilStskeeps: source?12:15
ShadowJKoh I suppose it's just the driver that's sabotaged then :)12:15
SpeedEvilStskeeps: oh - not with n900?12:15
StskeepsSpeedEvil: not on n90012:15
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Stskeepsthe other issue is, how would you deal with charging? needing a reboot or?12:17
tybolltanyway looking at the percentage vs the seats it is quite gross (that being said by someone in a country w/ proportional system).12:17
tybolltStskeeps: insmod?12:17
SpeedEvilStskeeps: replacing BME would be one way12:17
SpeedEviltybollt: yes.12:17
SpeedEviltybollt: it's not a completely 'fair' system12:18
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ShadowJKreplacing bme looks a bit complicated, even fucking pulseaudio is talking to it?12:18
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ShadowJK(yeah I know you'll say rip out pulseaudio..)12:18
SpeedEvilWell - yes.12:18
Stskeepsthat sounds a bit weird if it does12:18
SpeedEvilIs there an actual good reason for that though12:18
Stskeepsunless there's a power saving algo for that12:18
BCMMtybollt: if somebody has to form a coalition with libdems, they are almost certain to make it conditional on PR12:18
SpeedEvilif pulseaudio is open - surely it is - ...12:18
BCMM(or to put it another way, we're working on that...)12:19
tybolltcan't we just buy Jaaksi a boatload of KARHU and while he's busy getting drunk we go to ESPOO and implement this?12:19
* SpeedEvil wonders if pulseaudio is open to do charger beep or something silly12:19
Stskeepsi don't think espoo's the right place to go12:19
ShadowJKKarhu is making a 1-litre can now, 24 or so of those should do12:19
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tybolltBCMM: which'd be the conservatives I suppose - however they are strongly opposed to it12:20
BCMMtybollt: they benifit from it to a lesser degree than labour does12:20
BCMMtybollt: (since labour has it's votes somewhat concentrated in northern inner cities)12:20
ShadowJKThe "proper" way would be to move bme into kernel. Kernel has regulator device class for the boost function of bq24150, power supply and battery device classes for the rest... the USB driver could ask the charger to turn on the USB power, etc12:21
ShadowJKAnd theoretically all the documentation needed is available.. but I don't know of any kernel coders :)12:22
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ShadowJKAnd Nokia is probably secretly doing this anyway (sans boost mode for usb probably) as we speak.12:22
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StskeepsShadowJK: i wonder if there's a bme command to temporary disable bme or some other nice features12:23
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ShadowJKdisable everything except low battery shutdown12:24
ShadowJKthat's still nice to have12:24
ShadowJK(though luke would disagree, it's his favourite issue)12:24
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tybolltsjk: how so?12:26
tybollt ShadowJK> (though luke would disagree, it's his favourite issue)12:27
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ShadowJKOh he thinks that if he can disable the low battery shutdown he'll get more batterylife12:28
X-FadeShadowJK: That will work once, for sure ;)12:28
tybolltsjk: sure but then he'll risk draining it to the point where usb-charger won't work anymore...12:29
TigerTaelX-Fade, haha.12:29
TigerTaelI remember the old WM 5 phones.12:29
X-Fadetybollt: Even worse, the lipo itself will get damaged.12:29
ShadowJKtybollt, he'll risk draining it to the point where it catches fire if you try recharge it ;)12:29
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ShadowJKStskeeps, so yeah, just get the relevant engineers drunk and wrestle a N810 bme without lowbattery shutdown and give it to luke, his house will catch fire and you don't have to argue with him anymore ;)12:30
ShadowJKAlthough N810 probably has a hardware shutdown too :(12:30
tybolltsjk =)12:31
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tybolltit has to be in firmware right?12:32
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dhqwhat is that dish like symbol that comes when i start maps..... its the gps rite, when i star maps it takes like 10 mins to establish everytime......... but when i run a program like celltowerinfo the dish symbol connects immediatly byt when i launch maps there is no data12:32
ShadowJKmaybe "celltowerinfo" is only requesting rough position data without gps12:33
ShadowJKtybollt, it's either hardware or in bme, or both12:33
ShadowJKthere isn't really anything like SMM on ARM..12:33
tybollthas to be in hardware12:33
tybolltso I reckon - both12:33
dhqso any idea if n900 will get new maps12:34
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SpeedEvildhq: ave you tried with it outdoors in the open sky for 10 mins or so? Worst-case that should get a lock.12:36
dhqi have tried12:36
dhqi dont have internet on my phone12:36
dhqeverytime i try it takes 10 mins12:36
dhq10 mins or more or sometimes doesnt even connect12:37
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SpeedEvilI think I pointed you to a bug last time - that's somewhat relevant12:41
SpeedEvilconnecting the phone through wifi will also work to get a lock12:41
SpeedEvilit may be more reliable after the first lock12:41
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dhqSpeedEvil: i dont have wifi here12:46
SpeedEvilhow are you talking?12:46
SpeedEvilConnecting the phone over USB can be done12:46
Shapeshifterman, is a pita to browse in microb12:47
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dhqon my laptop via ehternet12:48
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dhqplease dont kick me but is pr1.2 out tommoro12:58
dhqits there in maemotalk12:59
dhqSpeedEvil: why do you say doubtful13:00
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Oooh. I looked at source of pulseaudio. Just reading the changelog and not looking into the sourcecode brings up two plausible reasons for it to talk to bme.13:00
`0660i trust nothing more than maemotalk :)13:00
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Turning bluetooth on and off for the audio, and the DSP13:00
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SpeedEvildhq: because it hasn't come out every day for the last several months13:00
dhqdint get you13:01
Dima_Sharihinlol, dhq why you saying about pr1.2???13:01
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dhqDima_Sharihin: am i saying something wrong13:02
Termanahey crashanddie13:03
fralscrap dhq it was suppose to come out but since you asked they postponed it another week :(13:03
dhqlol, your kidding rite13:03
Dima_Sharihinunhappy n900 users :D13:03
Termanahe's deadly serious13:03
dhqdeadly lolzzz13:04
dhqthen why have they moved a thread on maemo saying that "PR1.2 coming tomorrow,  CONFIRMED."13:04
Termanawhat are you laughing at? Thats the way the Ubuntu release work13:05
X-FadeA release in the weekend, sure :)13:05
dhqatleast ubuntu has a roadmap which they follow13:05
SpeedEvilSo does nokia.13:05
SpeedEvilIt's just not public13:06
dhqlol thats the problem13:06
Dima_Sharihinyes, just want to say it =)13:06
dhqthey can delay it as long as they want then13:06
ShadowJKI thought Eero explained it pretty well13:06
Anss|must be big patch if people are still doing it13:06
ShadowJKIt's the fault of all those rootfs whiners!13:06
Dima_Sharihindhq, do you think this is unfair?13:07
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Stskeepseach time you overclock a n900 they push the release one day13:07
iPeter-hi. is ther anyway to disable showing offline contacts on n900?13:07
dhqDima_Sharihin: i really feel its unfair13:07
TigerTaelStskeeps, haha.13:07
* dhq goes in a coner and cries13:07
jogaiPeter-: you mean selecting "available" in contacts?13:07
TermanaStskeeps, everytime you overclock an n900, DocScrutinizer loses a life13:07
ShadowJKRight now 1.1.1 is more stable than 1.2 anyway, or so they say :)13:07
Dima_SharihinStskeeps, each time you overclock n900 you impending death of device on the day =)13:07
petterinokia should get PRs out more often and with smaller content13:08
`0660petteri, i agree13:08
joga(it'll still show the contacts whose "Online" status can't be known, ie. the phone contacts)13:08
TigerTaelpetteri, I wouldn't like to keep reflashing my phone every 2 days.13:08
crashanddieevery time you ask about overclocking, or PR1.2, god kills an iPhone owner13:08
crashanddieno, wait13:08
petteriTigerTael: i haven't flashed my phone ever. Why can't you update like normal people :)13:08
TigerTaelpetteri, maybe because it doesn't work for me?13:09
`0660i don't think i'll be able to make video call to my mum on sunday :/13:09
dhqor maybe you will :)13:09
Dima_SharihinLet's update our phones like gentoo... every day with gcc =]13:09
ShadowJKI don't think you'll be able to make video calls with PR1.2 either ;)13:09
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dhqShadowJK: the leaked version people say you can13:10
`0660i thought so too13:10
ShadowJKdhq, do they mean google talk video calls?13:10
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ShadowJKor sip video calls?13:10
ShadowJKor skype video calls?13:10
SpeedEvilShadowJK: how did you find bme talking to pulse?13:10
`0660i talking about skype video calls13:10
crashanddiegoogle talk was bound to work13:10
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crashanddieconsidering it already works in a few instances13:10
ShadowJKSpeedEvil: libbmeipc or something like that iirc13:11
crashanddie(n810 to n900 video calls, for example)13:11
ShadowJKor libbmerpc13:11
crashanddie`0660: skype video calls is out of the hands of the Nokia engineers really, the Skype client needs to implement support for it, and that's about it13:11
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: There are no mentions of 'bme' in - grep -ri bme  shows nothing13:12
`0660crashanddie, i know, but i was under the impression that skype would be updated along with the 1.213:12
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I'm possibly looking in the wrong place13:12
SpeedEvilShadowJK: (for the source - I'm confident that it's not in the source)13:13
dhqwhat bout 3g video calling13:13
dhqanything bout that13:13
`0660i haven't seen any skype updates outside of major releases at least...13:13
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ShadowJK# cat /proc/$(pidof pulseaudio)/maps | grep bme | head -113:14
ShadowJK40c98000-40c9a000 r-xp 00000000 fe:01 336123     /usr/lib/
ShadowJKdhq, I don't think that will EVER come :)13:14
Stskeepscheck which one of the modules uses it13:14
dhqShadowJK: you are so confident .......... Dont know wht nokia released an incomplete OS13:15
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ShadowJKI think it's complete as it is :)13:16
TomaszDbike almost ready for the season :D13:16
hrw~curse nokia13:17
TomaszDwhat did they do wrong this time hrw13:17
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dhqShadowJK: Complete?? you gotta be joking13:17
hrwTomaszD: same as usual13:18
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TomaszDhrw, developing in a secret bunker, away from your prying eyes? ;)13:18
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hrwTomaszD: haha ha ;)13:19
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crashanddieTomaszD: what kind of biking do you do with that thing?13:19
TomaszDcrashanddie, it's a typical cheap MTB converted to a road bike13:20
TomaszDso mostly bike lines, there's lots of them here13:20
TomaszDnew tires, new seat, some misc. accessories13:20
crashanddiewhy not get a road bike then?13:20
TomaszDbecause I'm a cheapskate13:21
TomaszDand tires weren't cheap anyway ;)13:21
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crashanddiewell, they're only like what, 15-20 quid?13:22
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crashanddieThat's quite cheap13:22
TomaszDtires cost me 31 GBP if that's your preferred currency13:22
crashanddie :)13:22
TomaszDI got them cheaper than that then13:23
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TomaszDthey're awesome13:23
TomaszDquiet, good grip, low rolling resistance13:23
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crashanddieTomaszD: that's 18 quid for both :P13:23
dhqhow do i check my front cam working13:24
crashanddiedhq: mirror app13:24
Sceltdhq: download healthcheck13:24
TomaszDcrashanddie, are you sure?13:24
TomaszDcrashanddie, I don't think you're right13:24
crashanddieTomaszD: yeah, I've bought heaps of tyres on wiggle13:24
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TomaszDit says "tyre" not "tyres"13:24
TomaszD36 GBP would be a reasonable price for two in UK I guess13:25
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iPeter-hi. is ther anyway to disable showing offline contacts on n900? like it shows only online contacts13:25
fralsin contacts press app menu and "availability" or smth?13:26
TomaszDiPeter-, in the address book? No. But you can sort by availability13:26
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iPeter-okay damn13:26
TomaszDso that available, then busy, then away contact are first, then the rest13:26
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TomaszDcrashanddie, what I've learned these past few days that you can sink unbelievable amounts of money into a bike13:27
TomaszDso I'm trying to avoid that13:27
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crashanddieI got that bike for 700 GBP13:28
TomaszDsee, that's car money13:28
crashanddiethen I changed the tyres, wheels, got a dynamo hub in the front wheel, built the light, changed the seat, shaved off around 1.8kg in total off the weight of the bike13:29
crashanddieoh yeah, pedals as well13:29
crashanddiegot SPDs13:29
TomaszDthere's so many possibilities it's not even funny13:30
dhqsee you guys13:30
TomaszDI've spent >50GBP this season and probably doubled what my bike is worth13:30
TomaszDthe best spent money was on the seat though13:30
TomaszDthe previous one I had was... agonizing13:31
crashanddiegood tyres is where you see the biggest improvement13:31
crashanddieI guess seat is important as well if you're not often out of it13:31
TomaszDyeah, for a road bike it's important13:31
TomaszDnot so much for a MTB13:31
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crashanddiebut well, I'm a mtber, so I'm out of my seat most of the time, especially considering I don't have a dampening fork yet13:32
tybolltcrashanddie: x-county or downhill?13:32
tybolltI tried downhill in a ski slope13:32
tybolltalmost killed me13:32
crashanddiewell, proper downhill is dangerous if you don't have the proper bike for it13:33
tybolltnow a days on c-country :)13:33
crashanddieI do a bit of it, but only on slopes that I know13:33
tybolltcrashanddie: bingo13:33
crashanddieor if I do downhill slops, very slow, and with a nice orange jacket so people behind me see me13:33
tybolltthat's what happened to me...13:33
tybolltI had bunch iof professionals aftrer me13:33
tybolltI stoped at the wrong place13:33
tybollthad to emergency eject back into the slope13:34
tybollthit a fat root13:34
crashanddieyeah, it's seriously dangerous, you need a full face helmet, in some cases even body armour, and very good suspension13:34
tybolltand got ejected a few meters into a large tree13:34
crashanddieI would definitely recommend hiring a bike and gear for the day when you really want to try out downhill13:34
crashanddietybollt: ever seen the seasons?13:35
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tybolltcrashanddie: no?13:35
TomaszDhmm, this reminds me, I still don't have a helmet13:35
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tybolltMind I'm very much the amature and have not done any serious mtbing for the last eight years or so :)13:35
TomaszDman, that is hardcore13:37
TomaszDmy bike would fall apart on the third bend13:38
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tybolltthough I'm 180/82 now. Getting on a bike would kill me (and the bike ;)13:40
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crashanddieprobably best mtb dvd out there13:41
TomaszDgreat heli shots13:41
Shapeshifteran operator without edge - never again :(13:41
tybolltShapeshifter: so try an operator w/out gsm... :-|13:41
Shapeshifterthere's such a thing?13:42
Shapeshifter3G only?13:42
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Did you consider that shaving 1.8kg off you may be cheaper?13:42
crashanddieSpeedEvil: eh?13:43
* SpeedEvil does not know crashanddie's BMI.13:43
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hrwnokia told that that leaked image is not final pr1.2 - ok, I am fine with it. But why it has newer packages then official PR1.2 sdk has?13:43
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: diet13:44
Stskeepshrw: might be updates for sdk, to13:44
crashanddieSpeedEvil: that's 1.8kg off the weight of my bike13:44
petterior it is never than the official13:44
crashanddienot mine13:44
Shapeshifter... why does microb always have to flash white for a second when switching to it.13:44
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: yes, I know.13:44
crashanddieSpeedEvil: I don't get what you're trying to say13:44
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: I'm just commenting that it may be cheaper to reduce your own weight rather than spending exponentially more reducing the weight of the bike. (however - that may not be possible)13:45
crashanddieSpeedEvil: oh, right13:45
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hrwpetteri: anyway we do not know and will never got proper answer13:46
TomaszDheh, well, it's more expensive to shed bike weight, but instantenous and stable :)13:46
crashanddieSpeedEvil: well, they were improvements that really changed the handling of the bike, it's not really about speed or ease of pushing, it's just that getting the right equipment shaved off weight as well as change the bike's behaviour13:46
achipahrw: simple - it's not the official PR1.2 SDK. It is/was an early access PR1.2 SDK13:46
ShadowJKShapeshifter, I'm suffering second order effects from that bug. I expect every app to flash white before they start working after switching to them. Then I stand and stare stupidly waiting for the flash that never come, thinking the app died.13:46
crashanddieSpeedEvil: for example, getting much lighter tyres made the bike a lot more nimble and agile (less rotation inertia on the wheel, very important factor)13:47
ShapeshifterShadowJK: oh dear13:47
X-FadeSDK always gets updates to align with actual firmware releases.13:47
Shapeshifterexcept this time13:47
crashanddieSpeedEvil: also, getting the SPD pedals allow me to have better footing, grip and pull when required, compared to the flat pedals I had before, while still shaving off 300gr per pedal13:47
Shapeshifterwhere it exploded13:47
ShadowJKbesides, how many new features will there be that would break the sdk :)13:47
X-FadeWill happen for PR1.2 too.13:47
achipaexcept when it doesn't ;)13:47
TomaszDcrashanddie, oh yes, I have super light tubes, which made a bit of a difference, tires are lighter than previous ones as well13:47
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SpeedEvilcrashanddie: yes - I know - unsprung vs sprung, and it's not quite that simple.13:48
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crashanddieTomaszD: yeah, the tyres that came with the bike had these metal rings to keep them in shape, the new maxxis ones are a lot lighter, a lot thiner, and I probably lost roughly 400gr per tyre, which is really a massive difference, considering the tyres are the parts that move the fastest on a bike13:48
TomaszDcrashanddie, the big apples have kevlar sides instead of steel woven like my mtb ones, much lighter :) but still heavy tires in comparison to others13:49
SpeedEvilSo - will the SDK default to 1.3, when 1.2 comes out?13:49
viliny__im not a native english speaker, is tyres the plural for tire?13:49
SpeedEvilviliny__: yes13:49
X-FadeSpeedEvil: No13:49
tybolltcrashanddie: btw, mtb is where your nick comes from? >:)13:49
crashanddietybollt: well, i'm still around, so i guess not13:49
viliny__aight, thanks you SpeedEvil :)13:50
TomaszDtybollt, he's getting ready for the inevitable13:50
TomaszDthen he'll be like "I told you so!"13:50
tybolltcrashanddie: ;)13:50
* Shapeshifter on a downhill bike would certainly crashanddie 13:50
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tybolltyeah, at 82 kgs on a 180 body, I would too =)13:50
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achipadoesn't the tire/tyre thing have a en_US/en_GB aspect, too ?14:01
crashanddietyre = UK, tire = US14:02
tybolltthe debate makes me very tired...14:02
achipatired = ran over by tyres14:02
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tybollttyred = got ran over by tyrel sprewell?14:03
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X-Fadeachipa: Can you explain why this happens?
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X-Fadeachipa: It seems to look for setuptools for 2.3?14:04
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TuukkaMan, what was ~ham again...14:07
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infobotmethinks ham is oink oink.  Hildon Application Manager.  Hazardous Application Manager14:07
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achipaX-Fade: but... why doesn't it simple depend on python-setuptools ?14:07
infobotachipa meant: X-Fade: but... why doesn't it simply depend on python-setuptools ?14:08
X-Fadeachipa: It does build-depend on it.14:08
pupnik_cell phone radios should be able to do p2p/mesh14:08
pupnik_seriously.  lets do that14:08
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achipahm... weird, should not go for pypy if it already has it there14:08
MohammadAG|ZzZwhy are you packaging it like that14:09
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MohammadAGuse py2deb or pypackager14:09
X-FadeIt is a not me, and it is being packaged for a lot of distros.14:10
achipaX-Fade: and anyway, why is it going for python 2.3 ?14:10
achipaX-Fade: seems to be some scratchbox python version futz14:10
X-Fadeachipa: There is python 2.3 in the sdk, because some backend tool uses it.14:10
MohammadAGecho 4 >debian/compat <-- first time i see this being done tbh14:10
X-FadeBut if you check te root log, you see 2.5 being installed.14:11
MohammadAGset version in Build-Depends:14:11
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X-FadeMohammadAG: --> Piotras ;)14:12
X-FadeHe's the one making the mess.14:13
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achipaX-Fade: yeah, force it to 2.5, it should not deal with 2.3 even if it IS in the SDK for some reason14:13
Piotrasachipa, how to force?14:13
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achipaPiotras: XS-Python-Version in the control file, at least that's it for debian...14:14
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Piotrasachipa, I have pyversions file which should be taken into account14:15
achipaPiotras: yes, that too... what does your pyversions say ?14:16
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Piotrasachipa, are you *sure* both should exist?14:16
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achipaPiotras: no, not simultaneously, too as in 'that can define python versions, too'14:17
Piotrasachipa, so how that line should look like?14:18
achipathough my pyversions in scratchbox only says python2.5...14:18
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achipaStill seems to me that there is a script/line there that just blindly calls 'python' and that starts the scratchbox host python, not the maemo one14:19
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Psihi, is there a way to reset the datacounter from the commandline?14:21
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SpeedEvilI vaguely recall that you can screw with gconf14:22
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Piotrasachipa, I rules file I have:14:24
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Piotrasfor python in $(PYVERS); do $$python ....14:24
Piotrasso it's clearly pyversions issue IMO14:24
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achipaPiotras: but how does your pyversions file look like ?14:25
MohammadAGthen version the dependencies14:25
achipaPiotras: but why 2.4- ?14:25
achipa(do we even have a 2.4 ?)14:26
Piotrasachipa, I do not remember atm, I think I had read some debian-python howto and did like this14:26
Piotrasachipa, it says ignore < 2.414:26
achipayes, I know, should be 2.5-, though (not that it matters in this particular case)14:27
achipaPiotras: hey...14:28
achipaPiotras: cd . && python clean -a14:28
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achipaPiotras: do you do this from rules or is this from some debhelper ?14:28
tybollthmm anyway you get all nationalities and all sorts in this kind of forum...14:29
Piotrasachipa, what exactly ?14:29
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tybolltbut I olways wondered why there were no greek folks around here...14:29
achipaPiotras: cd . && python clean -a14:29
tybolltGuess now I know :)14:29
achipai can see this in the build log14:29
achipaand that's wrong14:29
achipashould be cd . && python2.5 clean -a14:29
achipa(and python2.5 from there on everywhere)14:29
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Piotrasachipa, it doesn't come from rules file14:30
achipathat particular line is generated by dh_clean I think, so you  get broken somewhere before that14:30
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achipaPiotras: can you pastebin the whole rules file ?14:32
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markinfoi have paired n810 with my debian desktop. But in Blueman there are no Bluetooth profiles listed. There is only "send file"  How can be browsed the data local on n810?15:04
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E0xmarkinfo: hmmm15:08
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E0xi never work with any bluetooth things in linux but maybe15:09
E0xthis help15:09
E0xlook like need obex15:10
X-Fadeachipa: I think I fixed part of your version issue with abiword package removal in bug #1011315:12
povbotBug New ARMEL version of application is removed from the repository a few hours later15:12
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Piotrasachipa, ideas?15:12
achipaPiotras: sorry, dropped out for a while due to power issues, did you paste the rules file ?15:13
achipaX-Fade: (Y)15:14
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markinfoProblem is - there are no bluetooth services offered on n810. On my Phone are Serial ports, Obex etc.15:16
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markinfoIs it necessary to configure it somewhere on n810?15:16
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markinfoHow to make a bluetooth connection with desktop PC? equipped with Bluetooth dongle?15:19
markinfofrom n81015:19
E0xmarkinfo: check this15:20
E0xlook like the n810 have some BT FTP server missing15:21
E0xso you can't browse file on it15:21
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povbotBug 3010: Provide FTP Bluetooth interface (OBEX FTP server)15:22
E0xClosing as FIXED in Fremantle (Maemo5), WONTFIX for Maemo4.15:22
X-FadePropose it for the community SSU ;)15:23
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markinfo"WONTFIX for Maemo4"  very nice .... As I do not like n900 - is too small and too expensive.15:26
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markinfowhat is "comunity SSU"  ?15:27
SpeedEvilmarkinfo: I thought it would be too small too - it surprised.15:27
SpeedEvilmarkinfo: I can't argue with the other part.15:27
andre__markinfo: updates for Diablo from the community, as Nokia is unlikely to ship updates15:27
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achipaPiotras: re again, shouldn't DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM := pysupport be DEB_PYTHON_SYSTEM=pysupport ?15:31
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achipaother than that, no idea really, somewhere in the cdbs bowels the wrong python gets picked. You could force the proper python through envvars, but that's kind of cludgy15:33
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markinfois planned by Nokia something similar like n810 (mini Tablet)  but with stronger CPU and maybe GSM modul?15:35
Sceltmarkinfo: what are you talking about mister?15:35
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markinfon900 is in classical Phone Dimensions - but something like n8xx Tabet was.15:36
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GeneralAntillesmarkinfo, who do you think we would know the answer to that question? :)15:37
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Piotrasachipa, let me try this15:42
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RST38h<yawn> PR1.2? <yawn>15:43
X-Fade /kb RST38h15:43
X-FadeOh, damn ;)15:43
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meceposted a thread about my magically awesome shopping list app:
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E0xmece: which lenguage ?15:55
chem|stmece: is it in extras yet?15:55
E0xpython ?15:55
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mecepyside currently. moving to c++ when I get things setup.15:56
chem|stI guess not... could you please edit your post to make aware of the issues you might have with testing or devel stuff?15:56
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mecechem|st, it's pyside so it wound get to extras before I make it using something that is actually installable I guess.15:56
meceit's in devel15:56
E0xi am looking do some app and i suck in programing so maybe i will use python15:56
E0xbecause i think c++ is too much for me15:57
meceI use python because I can do it comfortably directly on the phone15:57
RST38hIs t.m.o finally dead or what?15:57
meceupdating post.15:57
E0xt.m.o ?15:57
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mecetmo is working just fine. what do you mean RST38h?15:57
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chem|stRST38h: dead in which meaning of the word?? d.e.a.d.?15:58
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Piotrasachipa, it didn't help, but I think it's not package issue15:58
Piotrasthere's : cd . && python setupy.py15:59
TermanaI think he means dead as in, theres more noise than signal15:59
Piotraswhich implicitly invokes python2.3 I assume15:59
achipaPiotras: that's what I'm saying -  the debhelpers use python 2.3, that's the problem16:00
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mecechem|st, is that explanation sufficient, or should the devel part be in the title?16:02
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alteregoYou know, as phones have been capable of doing more and more over the years, more and more people have been complaining that they do less-and-less.16:16
alteregoI remember having a phone about 10 years ago, that didn't even have any games16:16
Piotrasachipa, I included 2.3 egg file in package, so error is gone16:17
alteregoIt had a two lines b/w LCD backlit display, which was about 10characters wide.16:17
Piotrasachipa, however there's still 2.3 issue:
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Piotrasno one builds python modules for fremantle?16:18
kht_n900hi !16:18
kht_n900piotras, depends on modules16:18
kht_n900if u need a module made in python i can do it16:18
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kht_n900someone have successfull use ptunnel on maemo ?16:19
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lardmanwhat's up here:
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lardmanOptimus has 1 post, which I'm looking at, but apparently has been thanked 31 times16:20
lardmanbut not here, so where?16:20
lardmanor am I just going mad?16:20
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Stskeepslardman: probably a lot of moves from normal -> off topic?16:21
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lardmanah, in which case the thanks metrics need to be recalculated I imagine16:21
nid0looks like a fault somewhere, if you look at his actual posts he has 10716:21
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lardmananyway sorry for the random aside :)16:22
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eikkkahello, is anyone here very knowledgeable of Jabber? :) I'm wondering if I could add facebook chat through jabber to my n900, without having that annoying "Jabber Call" (which doesnt even work) on every contact.16:37
C-S-BTheres no app that allows incoming call/sms etc info to be displayed on my linux laptop is there?16:38
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E0xeikkka: jabber call ?16:44
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eikkkaE0x: yeah, my contacts have two jabber buttons on them now for some reason :/16:45
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eikkkaJabber Call and Jabber IM16:45
eikkkai assume the call is for VoIP16:46
E0xis because jabber support voip16:46
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eikkkayeah, but i use jabber only for facebook chat so i'd kinda want to get rid of that button, but is it possible?16:46
E0xyou can't remove that16:46
eikkkaaw, too bad :/16:46
E0xthat is part of jabber16:46
eikkkaalready misclicked it 3 times today16:46
petterii think you get one jabber call per jabber contact. It is stupid because if the contacs jabber client supports call it will advertise it16:46
E0xeikkka: is not your fault , look like that facebook expose that feature16:47
E0xand the client detect it16:47
E0xeven if is not working16:47
PerfDaveSurely that depends on which Jabber client you use?16:47
eikkkai use just the default protocol that n900 has16:47
E0xPerfDave: not exactly16:47
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PerfDaveI mean, bitlbee doesnt' give me any Jabber Call stuff with Facebook chat :)16:48
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E0xPerfDave: because the client dont support it16:48
E0xis because both16:48
E0xclient and server16:48
eikkkahmm, while i'm at it, i noticed another issue today (my phone contract activated so i got my 3G broadband etc), it seems that i started getting some weird network errors for my IM accounts16:48
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eikkkathe jabber facebook one and MSN (if using either Haze or Pecan)16:49
E0xin wifi happen ?16:49
E0xmaybe is some issue of the service16:49
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eikkkadidnt happen before, no16:49
eikkkatried in wifi today as well and it didnt really connect to MSN with it either16:49
eikkkabut now that i got home from work it seems to work fine with 3G16:50
eikkkaboth of them16:50
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eikkkawhich one of the MSN protocols you guys prefer?16:50
E0xif you need proxy look like not work16:50
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E0xi am no a msn user16:51
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PhonicUKHey all16:51
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PhonicUKanyone tried a 32GB MicroSD card in their N900?16:51
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dhqPR1.2 on june 7th16:55
tybollturl to back that up or kick16:55
dhqno got info16:55
dhqon maemotalk16:55
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E0xdhq: hmm16:55
X-FadeOh, then it must be true ;)16:55
* X-Fade looks on the server. No, not there.16:55
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* tybollt gives dhq a bunch of lithium pills to deal w/ the voices in his head...16:56
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achipaPiotras: avoid 2.3, that won't help you, honestly, you need to find a way to force python2.5 - even if you get it to build with 2.3, it won't work on the devices16:57
Viliny_on_N900i did some apt-get upgrading and something under/stock clocked me16:57
dhqtybollt: lithium pills16:57
Viliny_on_N900from lehtos 90016:57
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* GAN900 is bored of rebooting16:58
Viliny_on_N900you think it's the scaling file that got overwitten?16:58
GAN900Nokia: We turned Linux into Windows 98!16:58
Viliny_on_N900gan don't be bitter, embrace it16:59
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* tybollt find GAN's appearances around here utterly refreshing... 16:59
tybolltJust a tad less faboism...16:59
Dima_SharihinGAN900, have you ever seen BSOD on N900?16:59
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chem|stPhonicUK: someone did when the device was in preproduction state and it did work17:01
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dhqDima_Sharihin: ive seen the nokia logo at regular intervals so that must be like BSoD17:01
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tybolltDima_Sharihin: that is true... I never had me a kernel panic()17:01
PhonicUKalso whats the name of the alternate OS instead of Maemo?17:01
PhonicUKthe one thats mostly pure debian17:01
PhonicUKI wanna boot Mer off a MicroSD :)17:01
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GAN900Dima_Sharihin, well, I've had some weird reboots.17:02
chem|stPhonicUK: well you dont need 32GB for that17:02
MohammadAGkernel panics on maemo?17:02
PhonicUKi know, atm I only have a little 2GB thing17:02
Dima_SharihinGAN900, why you have installed Win98 on this wonderful device?17:02
PhonicUKand I want extra storage too17:02
* timeless_mbp thought mer was almost pure ubuntu17:02
PhonicUKno Mer is almost pure Debian17:02
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PhonicUKUbuntu is just a debian based distro17:02
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, it is17:02
MohammadAGUbuntu 9.04 to be specific17:03
GAN900tybollt, well, let me balance it out: Maemo is the greatest thing since sliced bread.17:03
MohammadAGwith hildon-desktop slapped on top17:03
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* timeless_mbp waits for one of PhonicUK / MohammadAG to kill the other17:03
GAN900It changed my life. :P17:03
chem|stPhonicUK: full blown desktop install from linux mint is about 1.6gb17:03
PhonicUKI know but I want additional storage too :P17:03
PhonicUKas well as somewhere to install Mer17:03
* MohammadAG slaps PhonicUK with a large trout17:03
tybolltGAN900: meh :-|17:03
pupnik_is mint good for vudeo?17:03
* PhonicUK blinds MohammadAG with the flash from his N90017:03
* MohammadAG is immune to that17:04
GAN900tybollt, c'mon, this is the mobile computer revolution.17:04
chem|starent we all a bit debian?17:04
* MohammadAG takes out a Javelin17:04
GAN900It may have its warts, but it's going to change how people use computers forever.17:04
* MohammadAG locks on PhonicUK 17:04
* PhonicUK turns invisible17:04
tybolltGAN900: ja, but just because I liove maemo doesn't mean I bend over for Nokia =)17:04
* timeless_mbp loves to hate debian17:04
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chem|stpupnik_: it is good for any netbook afaik, are you looking for playback or transcoding?17:05
PhonicUKDoes 3G work in Mer/17:05
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* MohammadAG traceroutes PhonicUK's IP17:05
GAN900tybollt, who's bending over for Nokia?17:05
* PhonicUK is at work :P17:06
chem|st~trout PhonicUK17:06
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chem|st~blame chem|st17:06
* MohammadAG locks on PhonicUK and fires17:07
PhonicUKattack failed17:07
tybolltGAN900: I'm not saying anyone does...17:07
MohammadAG~bomb PhonicUK17:07
* PhonicUK is in an underground bomb shelter17:08
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PhonicUK awesome17:08
chem|stMohammadAG: I thought the bot will not miss him but w/o bot there is no hit...17:08
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* MohammadAG provokes the underground volcano17:08
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chem|stPhonicUK: blue or red pill?17:09
PhonicUKUnderground volcano, meet above ground glacier!17:09
PhonicUKchem|st, crush them both up and snort the purple powder17:09
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namusHow to avoid screensaving in N900? it is not comfortable while studying PDf's17:09
jogain the settings17:09
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jogaoh, sorry, there's no 'never' option17:10
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jogathere's probably some workaround then17:10
alteregoHope the next Maemo/MeeGo Nokia device has HDMI and USB host17:10
alteregoPreferably capable of 1080p ^.617:11
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MohammadAGit will17:11
X-FadeAt least there are Nokia devices with hdmi now.17:11
* MohammadAG looks at the non flagship N817:11
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alteregoYeah, way ahead of the game there. I can't believe more people aren't that interested in phones with HDMI ^.^17:11
PhonicUKIts annoying how nokia keep making basically the same phone over and over again17:11
PhonicUKsame hardware and OS, just tweaks like a better camera and video out17:11
PhonicUKbut still not enough RAM, crappy CPU and no 3D17:12
chem|stnamus: the app for easy backlight changing has a button for always on17:12
alteregoPhonicUK: it's about pricing points.17:12
X-Fadealterego: DLNA is more interesting if connected over wireless connections though ;)17:12
MohammadAGit's the first Symbian devices from Nokia that has ARM1117:12
MohammadAGi miss my N95's home server feature17:12
PhonicUKI wish the N97 had a 3D chip like the N9517:12
PhonicUKthat would have rocked17:12
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MohammadAGthe N97 was a big big fail17:13
PhonicUKthe only reason i still have mine is for spotify17:13
PhonicUKand a couple of really good games on it17:13
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alteregoNokia offer you a choice, they say, you can sacrifice having the best camera, if you prefer playing music, and we'll give you more storage. Or if you want a kick ass camera, and you don't want maemo ... ^.^17:13
alteregoI've got an N96 ..17:13
PhonicUKMohammadAG, none of them have offline support17:13
PhonicUKmust-have feature for me17:13
alteregoI don't think that was as much fail as the N9717:13
AppiahWill PR 1.2 support more profiles or shold you just use "tweakr" ?17:13
alteregoUntil the N900, the N95 8G was the best phone I've had.17:13
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Dima_SharihinPr1.2....oh shi-- =)17:14
PhonicUKI had a 6150 Flip before the N9717:14
* Dima_Sharihin have Nokia 7610 :-P17:14
jogaheh I still have an ngage qd about fail17:14
alteregoThe N96 is fucking awful, even with the latest firmware, and no apps installed :(17:14
* chem|st got tweakr installed and does not use the profiles stuff...17:14
MohammadAGI truely miss the N95, it had a superior camera17:15
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alteregoMy girlfriend uses it as a 3G modem, and it's constantly restarting itself.17:15
MohammadAGas well as the N86, but there was nothing new in it17:15
alteregoThinking about it, maybe there's a memory leak in the connection management/tethering code in Symbian ;)17:15
chem|stI miss the simpleness of my phone just serving up as USB network device17:16
tybolltalterego: I'd like to think so yes17:16
tybolltalterego: I used it as 36 modem the other day17:16
MiXu-I'm selling an N900. Is reflashing the easiest way to clear all the data?17:16
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tybolltand even when sitting perfectly still for >30 minutes it'd restart all the bloody time17:17
Dima_SharihinMiXu-, yes17:17
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alteregotybollt: not just mine then, that's good to know :/17:17
PhonicUKman imagine 64GB of storage in an N900...17:17
tybolltalterego: :-/ sorry17:17
MohammadAGPhonicUK, I'll do that in a bit17:17
MohammadAGor a year17:17
alteregotybollt: it's not your fault the phone is crap :)17:17
alteregoTakes good pictures though ^.^17:17
alteregoAnd the storage is good.17:17
chem|stPhonicUK: I got 1TB when ever I have wifi...17:17
tybolltalterego: computer I was using att the time has windows 7 installed - I kind of guessed the problem lied there - rather than on phone17:18
PhonicUKThat said, I've not used 32GB yet17:18
alteregoThat's the only reason why I bought it, I thought it'd be a better N95 8G.17:18
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PhonicUKwill do soon tho, my N900 has taken on the job of torrent box :)17:18
alteregoTurns out it's just hideously unreliable, and for no good reason as far as I can tell ..17:18
MohammadAGchem|st, If that's how you want to put it I have 2TBs :P17:18
chem|stand even with 3G I can stream music from my server...17:18
PhonicUKchem|st, doesn't beat my 4GB RAID array ;)17:18
PhonicUKTB rather...17:18
alteregotybollt: my girlfriend uses my ubuntu 9.10 netbook :/17:18
MohammadAGRAID is overrated17:19
tybolltalterego: uhuh17:19
PhonicUKmy mirror raid recently saved my ass :|17:19
PhonicUKone of the hard drives died17:19
MohammadAGrevive it17:19
alteregoPhonicUK: how many drives?17:19
* MohammadAG guesses 417:19
chem|stwell in case of hardware its a good idea to mirror but no help with a corrupting filesystem17:19
PhonicUKyou guess correctly17:19
Appiahguess tweakr couldnt do the job...17:19
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PhonicUKhave you guys ever seen my rig?17:20
* tybollt <3 tweakr17:20
PhonicUKits the size of a small dishwasher17:20
alteregoPhonicUK: well, if you're going to buy 4 drives, you've got a higher chance of one failing :P17:20
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tybolltPhonicUK: your "rig" is the size of a small dishwasher???17:20
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PhonicUKsee link17:20
chem|stalterego: true17:20
tybolltkids and their euphemisms these days....17:20
MohammadAGalterego, HDDs fail following a Poisson distribution :P17:20
PhonicUKthats my main machine17:20
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alteregoThat looks, quite insane :P17:21
PhonicUKmy machine?17:21
alteregoPhonicUK: what CPU/mem you got?17:21
PhonicUKAMD Phenom 9850BE @ 3.3GHz (Stock 2.5), 4GB OCZ SLi Edition PC6400 (CAS-3-2-3)17:22
alteregoThat's 4 times the size of mine ...17:22
MohammadAGPhonicUK, add... more... LEDs17:22
PhonicUKMohammadAG, have done since I took the pic17:22
alteregoThat's 4 times the size and not even that much more powerful :P17:22
PhonicUKits got 2 LED tubes which flash patterns17:22
MohammadAGPhonicUK, readapt my script for them17:22
* tybollt pics up the coolant fluid17:22
PhonicUKits got 2x 8800GTX OC2s :)17:22
PhonicUKand a 1000W PSU17:22
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alteregoI bet there's a lot of space in that case and a gerbil in a wheel identical to the one in mine :P17:22
PhonicUKI built this a couple of years ago now17:23
PhonicUKits very easy to work with17:23
PhonicUKnot much free space though17:23
alteregoOoo, I'd like to do some parallel processing on those graphics cards ;)17:23
PhonicUKliquid cooling takes up a fair amount of space17:23
PhonicUKalterego, are you coming onto me?!17:23
alteregoI've not tried CUDA or OpenCL in a machine with multiple cards.17:23
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PhonicUKalterego, It's mostly for nVidia 3D vision17:23
PhonicUKworks much better in SLi mode17:23
trip900anyone having issues sync'ing with google cal?17:23
PhonicUK1 eye per card17:24
alteregotrip900: yes, I completely disagree with it, google are evil.17:24
trip900all of the sudden it wont sync17:24
PhonicUKyou actually get better 3D performance than having 1x twice as powerful card17:24
MiXu-I suppose in scandinavia you'd use the Global release when flashing?17:24
PhonicUKGTA IV in 3D is...17:24
PhonicUKthe strip clubs are weird in 3D :\17:24
trip900alterego: googles fault?17:25
alteregotrip900: it was a joke, of which you obviously don't see :) I don't actually use google calendar sorry :)17:25
trip900oh heh17:26
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alteregoIt's okay, probably wasn't that funny anyway :P17:26
trip900understandable tho ;)17:27
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* alterego thinks facebook should have just published that chat security hole as a group chat feature.17:28
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achipaalterego: omap3 doesn't do 1080p officially, afaik17:38
alteregoI know17:38
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Khertan_Hi all !17:40
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alteregoHey Khertan_17:41
Khertan_heya alterego !17:41
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Dima_Sharihinachipa, but ARM Cortex-A8 can show 720p video17:42
achipaDima_Sharihin: cortex-A8 != OMAP317:42
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trip900solution to sync is to create a new calendar17:42
Dima_SharihinOh, sorry =]17:42
achipaDima_Sharihin: the video decode is done by a DSP or dedicated video chip, not the core, so ARM11, A8, A9, doesn't really matter that much17:43
trip900depends on the codec no?17:44
achipatrip900: 1080p is de facto h26417:44
Dima_Sharihinthanks. Most codecs are supported by hardware17:44
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Dima_SharihinFor example, via chipsets have hardware support of h.264, mpeg-4 etc =)17:45
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achipathe point is, with 1080p resolutions and data rates, no core will manage a decent frame rate17:46
tybolltfucking scary shit17:46
achipahell, even Atoms choke on purely SW 1080p decoders17:46
tybolltdid you guys read the piece on video and how the mpeg-la pwns us all - even the ogg(theora shitz?17:46
omardoes the top command report cpu usage when? system power on?17:47
Dima_Sharihinachipa, how you want to see 1080p on 800x480 display???17:47
zokierh264 has several levels and profiles, and hardware decoders usually support only a subset of those17:47
achipaDima_Sharihin: the orignal talk was that of a HDMI out on a successor17:47
tybolltachipa: ja - god knows the current v/out is a POS. :-)17:48
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* Khertan_ would not like a hdmi only device ... i didn't want to change my tv ... which didn't support hdmi17:50
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achipaKhertan_: well, if the N8 is anything to go by, we'll have both17:51
Khertan_achipa: ah ... n8 has both ?17:52
SpeedEviltybollt: yes. :/17:52
achipaKhertan_: yep, the hdmi is just in addition to the 4-pin Nokia plug17:52
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tybolltKhertan_: of course I'd wanted HDMI17:52
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tybolltso what?17:52
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tybolltjust because you don't have a HDMO capable TV/screen doesn't mean I should suffer :)17:53
chem|sttybollt: for dolby surround not for the video ;)17:53
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alteregoOn a related note, how do I drive the TV-Out from say, a gstreamer pipeline?17:53
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MohammadAGAren't there USB graphics cards?17:53
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: yes17:53
Khertan_tybollt: just because you bought a useless hdmi tv ... i should suffer17:53
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: this would require usb host working.17:53
achipaalterego: as in NOT clone mode ?17:53
MohammadAGUSB host mode would help then17:53
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: also slow17:54
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: 12 megabytes/second is a very slow video bus17:54
MohammadAGWas expecting HDMI...17:54
alteregoachipa: exactly.17:54
SpeedEvilerr - 4817:54
SpeedEvilwell - 30 more like really17:54
MohammadAGeven with a powered hub?17:54
achipaKhertan_: though, there is a caveat - the N8 might have both because they come from separate sources - the composite from the ARM, and hdmi from the broadcom chip17:54
MohammadAGthough i'm assuming that's required...17:54
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alteregoMohammadAG: having a powered hub isn't going to make the USB bus faster :P17:55
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alteregoDoes anyone have issues transfering large files via USB storage emulation to their N900?17:55
Khertan_alterego: could you define large ?17:55
alteregoI've had to revert to usb networking and scp because copies fail half way through.17:55
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alteregoKhertan_: well, I can't even transfer a single ~350M file ..17:55
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MohammadAGlol i know, but drawing 200mA for a GFX card wil either: 1) make it not work 2) run slowly17:55
Khertan_alterego: ah ... i didn't have problem to put on it some vm image17:56
Khertan_so around 1,5 Go17:56
Khertan_so around 1,5 Gb17:56
MohammadAGCopied a 2GB file in 30 seconds17:56
alteregoHrm, I might have to look into my issue again then.17:56
MohammadAGmeego-image to be more precise17:56
Khertan_MohammadAG: yes i found it amazing fast17:56
tybolltKhertan_: hdmi is useless?17:56
* tybollt trouts Khertan_ :)17:57
MohammadAGyes, DVI FTW17:57
Khertan_tybollt: yes ... when you live in france and you don't want to paid 25Euro by month just for seeing star academy show in hd17:57
* Khertan_ didn't have a hdmi projector17:57
MohammadAGtechnically they are similar though17:57
* Khertan_ didn't have a hdmi tv17:58
alteregoLove that pic17:58
* Khertan_ didn't want to paid 25Euros by month for his satellite tv just for one or two movies in hd by month17:58
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Khertan_and yes large plasma tv with a good rendering software render most of the time better than a low cheap hd tv17:59
BCMMalterego: we need a bot that pastes that link whenever pr1.2 is mentioned17:59
* RST38h is ok with normal broadcastied tv17:59
RST38hnot watching it anyway17:59
Dima_SharihinKhertan, use torrents ;)17:59
Khertan_BCMM: it ll be kline in 1second17:59
Khertan_Dima_Sharihin: :)17:59
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Khertan_Dima_Sharihin: did you have a torrent for downloading a plasma hd tv ?18:00
X-FadeDima_Sharihin: France is a 3-strikes country, so better now ;)18:00
Shapeshifteris it possible to have the terminal on the n900 launch in fullscreen by default?18:00
alteregoCan someone tell me what the three framebuffer devices are on the N900?18:00
alteregoPresumable fb0 is the internal LCD ..18:00
Khertan_X-Fade: 3 strikes ?18:00
Khertan_X-Fade: i didn't understand18:00
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X-FadeKhertan_: You will be disconnected from the internet after 3 complaints of illegal downloading.18:00
achipatrucker strike, agricultural strike, downloader strike...18:01
Dima_SharihinKhertan, there are over 9000 torrents with HD1080p videos in the I-net18:01
Khertan_X-Fade: ah ... that ... before they must agree on some law yet ... :)18:01
Khertan_X-Fade: it s far from beeing ready :)18:01
Khertan_i think you mean ... france is the country of strike ... worker strike18:02
achipaplus, it's bound to be more of a scare-law than a practical one. Nobody wants to lose customers...18:02
Khertan_so 3 will be too small number :)18:02
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alteregoOkay, got it, fb0 is built in LCD and fb1 must be TV out18:02
Khertan_it s more 30% of 365 day by year :)18:02
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achipathe fun fact is that for a short while, we had a 3 strikes thing in Serbia18:04
RST38hachipa: And then they exiled you to Kosovo? =)18:04
* RST38h pings wazd fiercely18:04
achipaRST38h: no, the only provider that actually tried to enforce it went nearly bankrupt18:04
RST38hachipa: Ahhahahaha18:04
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RST38hachipa: You should have seen US frantically trying to shut down ...18:05
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alteregoI wonder if fb2 is the DVI port ^.^18:05
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X-Fadealterego: Get your soldering iron and try out ;)18:06
achipaalterego: and I thought fb2 is an ebook format... :D18:06
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Piotrasachipa, how can I avoid python 2.3 if it's debhelper/builder which invokes it? :)18:07
Dima_SharihinRST38h, are you from russia?18:07
RST38hAnyways, ttg18:07
achipaPiotras: debhelper gets the python interpreter from some envvar IIRC (set up by pyversion or whatever)18:08
achipaPiotras: so if you change that envvar manually, you should be able to coerce it to use 2.518:08
X-FadePiotras: debhelper (>= 5.0)18:08
X-FadePiotras: Did you try that?18:08
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achipabut that is a kludge, I admit18:08
MohammadAGPiotras, python bdist_dumb then build it as a deb18:08
achipaMohammadAG: *python2.5* setup.py18:09
* wazd pongs18:09
achipathat's his problem :)18:09
MohammadAGpython2.3 then18:10
MohammadAGpython2.3 setup.py18:10
PiotrasX-Fade, achipa: *the same* rules and control file worked few months ago18:10
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achipaPiotras: there was this SDK upgrade... XD18:10
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Piotrasupgrade? from python 2.5 to python 2.3 ?18:11
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X-FadeDo we know any other packages using python-setuptools?18:11
PiotrasX-Fade, all debian python stuff? :)18:11
achipaPiotras, X-Fade: maybe the old autobuilder had a python patch which is not there (like we lost the optify thing ?)18:11
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MohammadAGnoor uses if you're interested18:11
MohammadAGbut I used py2deb18:12
achipaI call python2.5 explicitly. Guilty as charged. But it works :)18:12
alteregoHeh, got my N900 to use my laptops internet connection through usb0 :)18:12
alteregoMuch better :D18:12
Piotrasachipa, I do call python2.5 explicitly too :)18:12
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Shapeshifterwhats the difference between python and python2.5?18:13
achipaShapeshifter: python is python2.3 inside scratchbox18:13
achipa(debian etch, etc, etc)18:14
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tybolltI find it very interesting that while E V E R Y O N E are talking about HD content yet still to play anything usefull you need to be on windows and on windows there's still only two or three programs in existence that can play the content... fooo18:16
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BCMMhow is SIP with firewalls?18:16
BCMMmy network doesn't give me a real IP address18:16
BCMMdoes that mean i can't receive calls on a SIP account?18:16
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Shapeshiftertybollt: ??18:17
tybollthow'd you go about playing bluray on linux?18:17
BCMMalso, is there a list somewhere of SIP providers that allow you to make calls to the normal telephone system18:17
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Dima_SharihinBCMM, use skype. It works beatiful with any types of proxy and NATs18:17
Shapeshiftertybollt: people still buy media stored on hardware?18:18
Shapeshifterdiscs suck18:18
BCMMDima_Sharihin: i know, but IIRC there are some SIP providers that are cheaper, and skype is philisophically objectionable in some ways18:18
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tybolltShapeshifter: dun matter buddy, it's the same DRM18:19
tybolltol over18:19
Shapeshiftertybollt: well looking at the development with music, its getting better actually18:19
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Shapeshifterpeople start to know what drm means and complain18:19
tybolltI see movie in store - buy it18:20
Shapeshifterbesides, most drmd music probably sucks18:20
tybolltand outside of HW bluray players there are two or tops three software on the planet capable of playing it18:20
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Dima_SharihinBCMM, iirc SIP is very simple protocol. Maybe better use Jabber VoIP extension?18:21
Shapeshifteryeah well. blueray isnt very popular18:21
BCMMthere are ways to call real landlines from SIP, right?18:21
BCMMDima_Sharihin: does the n900 do that?18:21
BCMMDima_Sharihin: and are there services that let you call landlines18:21
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Shapeshifterif it gets more popular and lots of people realize theyre being fucked with there'll be improvement18:21
Dima_SharihinBCMM, I don't know ^_^. But Google Talk is Jabber, and support video-calls =)18:21
BCMMDima_Sharihin: i thought the n900 doesn't do video calls yet?18:21
Dima_SharihinBCMM, doesn't do _skype_ video-calls18:22
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BCMMbasically, i'm looking for a way to call landlines abroad cheaply, and the obv. answer is skype but they're kinda creepy18:22
BCMMi'll use skype if there is no other solution18:22
SpeedEvilWas ESD used in maemo 4?18:23
lcukBCMM, theres phone providers that do cheap connections afaik18:23
lcukyou dial a prefix, then the number18:23
lcukand it is rerouted18:23
lcukworks from any phone18:23
BCMMlcuk: probably not as cheap as skype18:23
lcukand you get cheaper calls to countries?18:23
lcukof course18:23
lcukbut you sound like you ruled out skype18:23
X-FadeJust search for sip provider on google, how hard can it be?18:24
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chem|stBCMM: you just need to find a provider doing it (SIP)18:25
BCMMi'm mostly slipping up on the jargon18:25
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BCMMonly just got that a provider that will connect you to real phones is a "termination provider"18:26
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BCMMi presume there are also SIP providers that don't do that18:26
chem|stBCMM: I got rid of t-com that way! I have internet and thats it, have a 'real' geolocated landline18:26
BCMMchem|st: do you know how sip handles NAT? My phone network doesn't give me a global IP18:26
BCMMchem|st: not sure i understand18:27
chem|stBCMM: we tried that with both on edge and it worked...18:27
PhonicUKhas anyone ever tried to run Angstrom on the N900?18:27
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BCMMchem|st: still not entirely sure i understand18:27
chem|stBCMM: where are you off?18:28
BCMMchem|st: uh, again not sure i understand you18:28
chem|stBCMM: you look for a sip provider from your country with cheap rates18:28
BCMMchem|st: are you asking which part of the world i'm in?18:28
BCMMchem|st: ah, well i'm looking for two things, maybe two accounts18:28
chem|stno what u do not understand18:28
BCMMchem|st: one for making cheap calls to the UK, another for cheap calls to belguim18:29
chem|stBCMM: prepaid or contract?18:29
BCMMchem|st: sip providers work like that?18:29
BCMMprepaid probably18:29
BCMMthe bit i didn't understand was "we tried that with both on edge and it worked..."18:29
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Khertan_i ll go on ...18:30
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Khertan_and will try to connect later while tcpip over icmp :)18:30
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chem|stBCMM: both at sipgate both connected with EDGE on different providers and we were able to call and talk in both directions18:30
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BCMMchem|st: but did your providers give you real IP addresses or NATted?18:31
BCMMchem|st: oh, cool18:31
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BCMMdo you know of a site which would list providers in order of how much they charge per minute to call belgium?18:31
chem|stthe phone does fine with NATed connections...18:31
lcukwe need system level accelometer calibration18:32
chem|stBCMM: no but whats wrong with 2p?18:32
SpeedEvillcuk: yes, yes we do.18:32
BCMMchem|st: what is 2p?18:32
lcukSpeedEvil, :)18:32
BCMMchem|st: oh, as in 2p per minute?18:33
chem|stpennies Ps the crap little buggers nothing worth18:33
BCMMnothing reallyh18:33
SpeedEvillcuk: You can rotate the phone slowly several times in random patterns - and then attempt to fit the resultant elipsoid to a unit sphere.18:33
BCMM2p a minute is, indeed, nothing really18:33
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BCMMlcuk: how would you do accel calibration? put the phone on the ground, and use a database of values of g in different parts of the world?18:34
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SpeedEvillcuk: this gives you per-axis offset and scale. Also some info about cross-axis - but that's harder to pull out18:34
SpeedEvilBCMM: There are three accellerometers.18:34
lcukBCMM, SpeedEvil for most uses, calibrating faceupfacedown would do18:34
SpeedEvilBCMM: the worst-case accuracy of these is +-10% per axis or so18:34
SpeedEvillcuk: True18:34
BCMMSpeedEvil: hmm, and there is an edge the n900 will not balence on18:34
lcukbecause of the camera bulge18:35
lcukits more noticable18:35
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lcukand especially how ive got a group of bubbles in a cloud on screen now18:35
lcukand they are all fucking off to top left18:35
zokierscreen down it balances fine :)18:35
SpeedEvilI have a clear plastic case18:36
lcuki think gravity shifted tho18:36
SpeedEvilit balances lots better on its back, as tehre is a cutout18:36
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chem|stBCMM: for google voice testing I signed up for a sip account in us and fwd via landlin-fwd18:38
BCMMchem|st: does google voice call landlines?18:38
chem|stBCMM: I would not do that again as a robot was calling me once a day, turned it of though18:39
Dima_SharihinBCMM, google it :D iirc in america it is possible18:39
BCMMdo SIP providers typically provide free calls to other SIP providers?18:40
chem|stBCMM: googleV is a garbage collector for phone lines, you need at least one valid landline number to get it working and the beta was/is US only18:40
BCMMand does anybody support SIP -> Skype calls?18:40
chem|stBCMM: for SIP to SIP you need a provider doing actual SIP calling, at least as long as the freakin phone cant do18:41
BCMMchem|st: ?18:42
BCMMchem|st: the n900 actually does SIP...18:42
chem| does not provide a SIPaddress to be called ( is not callable)18:42
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* crashanddie waves at lcuk, chem|st and SpeedEvil18:43
chem|stBCMM: thought there is a bug open as you can't call a $ contact itself18:43
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* MohammadAG waits for a wave18:44
* crashanddie waves at MohammadAG 18:44
crashanddieyou jealous mofo :P18:44
* MohammadAG slaps crashanddie 18:44
* crashanddie kicks MohammadAG 18:44
* MohammadAG bombs crashanddie 18:44
* chem|st thinks their is <3 in the air....18:45
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* MohammadAG burns the air18:45
chem|stI like word playing18:45
chem|stBCMM: provides free sip-calls to telio and gradwell but thats about it18:46
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eluiandilhi all! I found n800_defconfig in maemo kernel 2.6.26: can i compile this kernel for N800/N810 or it is impossible?18:48
crashanddiechem|st: you maybe like playing with words, but "their" isn't wordplay, it's just fail :P18:48
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Piotrasachipa, so what is recommended way to build python debs (especially for maemo? )18:49
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chem|stcrashanddie: their are love in the air is just fail...218:50
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crashanddiechem|st: can I ask for a favour?18:50
chem|stor they are love18:51
crashanddiechem|st: take a machine gun on all those stupid off-topic threads18:51
chem|stcrashanddie: I wish18:51
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VDVsxlinux hackers looking for a job take a look: ;)18:52
chem|stas long as reggie and the council folks arent on the same line with us I cant do anything, I would just empty out the whole off-topic thing18:52
chem|stso I'm off to grab some to eat l8er18:53
fralslol VDVsx18:54
VDVsxfrals, nice opportunity to join a cool team, eheheh18:55
VDVsxgonna spam meego as well :P18:55
* VDVsx hides18:55
lcukhey frals - you should signup for that thing VDVsx is spamming :p18:56
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fralslcuk: ;D18:56
fralsgonna prepare dinner with the missus now, laters o/18:56
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BCMMhow would one go about testing SIP? i'd like to make sure that sip-sip calls are nice before buying any credit for calling real phones18:57
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BCMMis there a thing that works a bit like the skype call test service?18:57
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Dima_SharihinBCMM, sip-sip calls are free18:57
* GAN900 is going to waste time reading the religion thread for some reason.18:57
BCMMperhaps i just need to make a second account to test it18:57
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Dima_SharihinBCMM, btw, sip has skype transopts19:00
GAN900chem|st, what page?19:00
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kajkohow do I turn off quit messages in xchat on N900?19:00
kajkoit's annoying19:01
SpeedEvil /quit19:01
SpeedEviltu turn them off19:01
SpeedEvil /quit on to turn them back on19:01
Dima_Sharihin/quit =)19:01
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* SpeedEvil feels bad.19:02
X-FadeSpeedEvil: Evil bastard :)19:02
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Dima_SharihinSpeedEvil, take a medicines19:03
X-Fadekajko: SpeedEvil was joking, he is really sorry. ;)19:03
kajkoSpeedEvil nice try19:03
SpeedEvil /set irc_conf_mode 119:03
SpeedEvilwould seem to be one way19:04
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MohammadAG/set for a full list19:04
SpeedEvilI presume you could also do it by editing the config file - the other method of 'right-clicking' on a tab does not seem helpful19:04
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Stskeepswell, the lawyers have to have some work19:08
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LapEvil /join #test19:08
* GAN900 expects it's more Reggie than "council people"19:09
* microlith rages at orange business services19:09
bleaderhehe a friend of mine was working there (not anymore btw)19:09
bleaderhe was raging against them quite a lot too19:09
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crashanddieGAN900: yeah, probably more reggie than council people, yet the proper way to get things changed is through the community council19:12
crashanddieGAN900: just having everyone yell and shout everytime someone throws a tantrum isn't going to get us anywhere. use the appropriate channels.19:12
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VDVsxwhat's the hot topic ? :)19:12
VDVsxmaemo -> meego I guess19:12
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crashanddieVDVsx: your mom :P19:13
crashanddiethat's what she said19:13
* VDVsx slaps crashanddie with a katana19:13
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lcuknow now VDVsx19:14
lcukif you are gonna use that, go do it in the sandbox19:14
lcukwe can cover the blood easier19:14
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korhojoawho's getting killed?19:15
kajkodoes qgil and the other Nokia dudes still come to this channel?19:16
LapEvil!seen qgil19:16
frals~seen qgil19:16
infobotqgil <> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 36d 20h 26m 55s ago, saying: 'ever'.19:16
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MohammadAGNokia dudes <-- I'm seeing this a lot19:16
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LapEvil np: Aerosmith - Dude looks like a lady.19:16
VDVsxNokia dudes = Nokians (I heard ;))19:16
kajkoso he dont come often then19:16
VDVsxkajko, more at #meego these days19:17
Myrttiqgil isn't the only nokian here...19:17
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fralsbah wait if one would apply for that team, it means working with VDVsx? /me runs19:17
kajkoyup....qgil moved on to meego19:17
* VDVsx hides19:18
Myrttimaking assumptions based on his visits here is a bit off balance, since he hasn't really been a hardcore irc user ever19:18
ShapeshifterI demand OPK to hang out here :<19:18
Shapeshifteroh wait19:18
MyrttiI demand cheesecake19:18
frals195k downloads... hopefully i hit 200k tomorrow! \o/19:18
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Shapeshifterfrals: where do you see the number of downloads?19:18
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Shapeshifterah nice19:19
Shapeshiftermhh, where's the total number?19:20
fralshave to add it up manually :D19:20
Shapeshifterfrals: huh. can you do integrals with your eyes?19:21
fralswhat, you cant? O_o19:21
fralsnah if you check the source theres a link to the script that generates it19:21
fralsthat got all the values19:21
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Shapeshifterah yes19:22
frals(i wrote a script to sum it up :()19:22
kajkodo people still use mms ?19:24
SpeedEvil is easy to ue I guess.19:25
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SpeedEvilkorhojoa: 195000 of them don't.19:25
Dima_SharihinSpeedEvil, whereis '\n' symbols in the script? O_o19:28
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SpeedEvilWe don't need no steenking human-readability19:30
SpeedEvilThat's quite easy to parse by eye, compared to html19:30
Dima_SharihinSpeedEvil, Maybe better use obsfucation?19:30
SpeedEvilcompared to some html19:30
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BCMMi've made a free account to test SIP19:31
BCMMand it works fine from ekiga on my desktop19:31
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BCMMbut i can't hear anything on the n90019:31
BCMMhave i misconfigured something?19:31
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SpeedEvilkajko: Go to chanopt.conf in ~/.xchat2/ - add a line text_hidejoinpart = 119:32
SpeedEvilafter the channel name19:32
SpeedEvilkajko: this lets you set it per-channel19:32
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kajkothanks speedevil.... done19:32
Dima_SharihinBCMM, may... Are you sure, that config of PulseAudio for Ekiga is correct on both devices?19:34
BCMMDima_Sharihin: i haven't installed ekiga on teh phone19:34
BCMMi'm trying to use the built-in SIP client19:34
kajkoyou can also tap and hold the channel name and a setting window comes up where you can hide/show join/leave alerts19:34
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Shapeshifteryay for a bash one liner19:37
Shapeshifterfor i in $(curl -s '' | sed -n '2p' | sed -e 's/.*var\ d\ =\[//;s/\],\[/\]\ \[/g'); do echo $i; done | awk -F "," '{print $2}' | sed -e 's/].*/+last/' | bc -l | tail -n 119:38
Shapeshifteralarmed only has 2420. which is quite a lot >.> Well. pr1.2 should come out to fix the pyside madness. Then I'll release some more features and vote for it.19:39
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lcukShapeshifter, thats not a oneliner19:40
arachnisti'm actually surprised people still use mms19:40
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Shapeshifterlcuk: widen your chat client :P19:40
lcukarachnist, mms reasoning was outlined at the start19:40
wall[e]anyone can't login to tmo?19:40
wall[e]i tried resetting passwd and didn't work19:40
lcukoverwhelming population of hardware out there is compatable with it, vs the number of people with phones capable and configured to use email19:41
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kajkowith my operator it's cheaper to email pix than mms. i have unlimited data tho.19:42
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arachnistlcuk: most of the phones released over the past 4 years or so that are capable of sending/receiving mms are also capable of sending email19:42
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arachnistand receiving19:42
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lcukthose phones also are NOT configured for email out of the box19:42
lcukand unwashed masses dont usually know how19:43
lcuksame devices are however configured for mms19:43
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lcukarachnist, theres whole discussions on the wiki about actually kickstarting mms on our devices and the issues19:44
wall[e]or may be i got banned?19:44
wall[e]just post a few nudes19:44
lcukand how to solve them - we moved on from bah email is available very early19:44
wall[e]what's wrong??19:45
arachnistlcuk: the biggest issue with mms is still the 2.6.28 kernel, isn't it?19:45
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lcukdunno, fmms seems to be working fine19:46
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lcukfrals has done an exceptional job at working round whatever - hes dug and discussed and coordinated and hacked and coded and we practically have a real proper MMS service on our devices :)19:46
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Dima_Sharihinimho, MMS useless19:48
lcuk195000 people disagree19:48
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lcukwell installs19:48
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Dima_SharihinOn mine phone, I did not even set up this service19:49
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lcukno, but on a normal phone theres no configuration, if someone sends you an mms it will arrive19:50
SpeedEvilThe numbers look sane for me more like 10K I think than 190K alas.19:50
SpeedEvilAssuming the spikes are correlating with release versions of mms19:51
lcukSpeedEvil, however you want to read them, theres tremendous support from all over the ecosystem for the hard work frals is doing19:51
lcuka few months ago we had no mechanism to do mms and were told there wouldnt be.  now we have a viable open source option19:52
kajkolcuk: agreed19:52
SpeedEvillcuk: Indeed!19:53
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SpeedEvillcuk: I'm just wondering how you would best correlate teh above numbers with an installed base19:54
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SpeedEvilIf you look at feb 21 for example - the area under that spike is 7000 or so. The one on April 29th is about 2000019:56
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pupnikwb ssvb20:03
Dima_Sharihinwhat-what? =)20:04
Dima_Sharihinoh =)20:04
SpeedEvilTripling every 2 months. In about 2 years, everyone on the planet will use fmms.20:05
ssvbhi pupnik20:05
fralslol SpeedEvil20:05
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fralsalso lcuk, you make me blush! ;)20:05
Dima_SharihinSpeedEvil, Provided that you have given the whole planet N90020:06
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lcuk:) frals - credti where its due20:06
lcukcredit too20:06
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SpeedEvilHow opaque is mms data? Do the networks just treat it as a binary?20:08
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* GAN900 had a dream that PR1.2 was released last night.20:10
Stskeepstime for weekend then20:11
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Dima_SharihinGAN900, sleep-sleep, you are sleeping =]20:13
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* SpeedEvil had a dream that one day, little black nokias, and little white nokias, ...20:15
Dima_Sharihinwhy little?20:17
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RST38hSpeedEvil: Have you got to hump any of them?20:18
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lcuklardman, i have to both thank you and grrrr @ u20:20
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Viliny_Hey guys20:21
Viliny_some update screwed over my cpu scaling file i  guess... i ran lehtos kernel but now it won't scale beyond 600 - which file should i be looking for?20:21
lcukthis channel does not condone nor support overclocking20:21
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MohammadAGyes, really20:22
MohammadAGsame goes for any leaks20:22
Viliny_alright, so which file is responsible for the cpu scaling on the n900?20:23
lcuki dunno, never had to mess with it20:23
Viliny_fair enough20:23
MohammadAGhint, it's in /sys20:23
RST38hViliny_: /vmlinuz?20:23
lcuksomewhere in /20:23
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fralsSpeedEvil: its a binary (over regular http)20:24
Viliny_so why has the tone here gotten so zealous when it comes to oc?20:24
Dima_SharihinSpeedEvil, very nice :)20:24
MohammadAGlook in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/20:24
MohammadAGi used find -name, use it next time20:25
Viliny_what did you use for name?20:25
Viliny_alright, thank you sir20:25
Viliny_is there a separate channel for tinkering such as overclocking?20:26
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chem|stViliny_: before I start OC with anything I change the OS setup to perform better, it makes no sense to me doing oc on a system which could be faster by tweaking20:27
* chem|st wants a button to turn off transitions20:27
Viliny_chem|st: i have done the transitions thing, love the speed. but i also love the phone in it's faster state... flash, emulation... it's like how the device should have been20:28
chem|stViliny_: well stop all unneeded background tasks and you get about the same20:29
chem|stI got no performance issues with flash...20:29
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Viliny_what exactly are we classing as unnecessary?20:29
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MohammadAGAnything cpu intensive20:30
Viliny_like turning on the phone?20:30
chem|stwho needs home anyway?20:30
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chem|ststuff that keeps your xserver threating the cpu20:32
eluiandilhi all! I found n800_defconfig in maemo kernel 2.6.26: can i compile this kernel for N800/N810 or it is impossible?20:32
GAN900Viliny_, because the likelihood of it killing your device outright in a short period of time is very high.20:32
Viliny_what is your source for it being very high?20:32
GAN900TI, TI engineers, Nokia engineers.20:33
eluiandilis maemo 4/OS2008 support 2.6.26?20:33
chem|stViliny_: you got no proper cooling system so anything above 700MHz will do no good20:33
GAN900chem|st, it isn't heat.20:33
Viliny_then what is it20:34
chem|stGAN900: I know but how do you sell people stuff they dont understand20:34
MohammadAGthere should be a wiki article about electromigration20:34
chem|stViliny_: the design of the chip is the issue20:34
MohammadAGthere might be one on wikipedia20:34
GAN900Viliny_, you're severely reducing the life of your device running at 550 or 600MHz for long periods of time20:35
GAN900Anything beyond 600MHz is dangerous.20:35
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Viliny_yeah well it's not like i don't understand the risks - i went under the impression that the lifetime wouldn't be shortened enough to make a difference in this case20:36
Viliny_im using it as a phone and it's going to get swapped in a couple of years any way20:37
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chem|stViliny_: we are not talking about years20:38
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kajkothere is no need to overclock the N900... it's not like it's slow as it is20:38
Viliny_well, for me it is20:39
chem|stGAN900: and well it is about heat, not like getting warm but about micro/nano spots20:40
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GAN900chem|st, well, yeah, it's not that simple.20:41
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GAN900But I think people having the impression that it's about overheating might give them a false sense of security. ;)20:41
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MohammadAG<Viliny_> im using it as a phone and it's going to get swapped in a couple of years any way20:41
MohammadAG500 - 10 year20:41
MohammadAG550-600 5 year20:42
chem|stViliny_: you feel the need to overclock it, go ahead! make my day! I am working for a company doing nanostructural research... you save my job in some way!20:42
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MohammadAG600-650 2.5 (doing some weird maths here)20:42
MohammadAG650 would make a big difference20:42
GAN900Viliny_, overclocking you could be talking about weeks. :)20:42
MohammadAG750, less than a year20:42
MohammadAG800, half a year20:42
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wall[e]will next n900 be n911?20:42
wall[e]i just want the number20:42
MohammadAG1000, you're an idiot20:42
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: thanks for the pointer :-)20:42
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GAN900wall[e], nobody without an NDA knows.20:43
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GAN900and maybe not even then.20:43
wall[e]or a window cleaner20:43
Viliny_so with your prophecy, we are going to see a lot of people with broken phones in a couple of months then20:43
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wall[e]will wait a couple of months before overclocking then20:44
MohammadAGi really don't get it20:44
MohammadAG600 is fast enough20:44
MohammadAGeven for flash20:44
chem|styou might try to fix its speed to 700 and start a stopwatch (we are not talking about a long time here so a stopwatch will do) and start browsing flash pages an stuff20:44
RST38hOMG google updated their homepage20:44
wall[e]may be gaming is too slow20:44
Viliny_MohammadAG: well what do you use the phone for?20:45
MohammadAGeverything but a phone20:45
chem|stwall[e]: thats a no on n91120:45
Viliny_And at no point have you sat there and thought to yourself: Man, i wish this would go a bit faster?20:46
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wall[e]but i think, speed improvement should be done more in software optimization level.20:46
RST38hwall: Are you a computer programmer?20:46
wall[e]not overclocking20:46
Viliny_out of the box this damn thing stuttered and skipped on flash videos - a little later i found a kernel for overclocking and went with 900 - smooth20:46
chem|stViliny_: I did! then I figured out what was slowing it down and changed the setup20:46
Viliny_i don't know if i want the n900 with stock speeds20:46
wall[e]RST38h, yes.20:46
MohammadAGViliny_, once, when I was encoding an flv, and that's not worth losing 5 years of lifetime20:46
* DocScrutinizer moans and turns away, to have another nap. Can't stand it anymore to explain the exponential curve of electromigration to noobs who thin OCing is the cutest thing since Kernigan invented C20:47
RST38hAnd you honestly believe that everything can be optimized?20:47
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RST38hWho is Kernigan, Doc?20:47
wall[e]RST38h, I didn't say that, but most of them yes.20:47
MohammadAGcutest thing since Kernigan invented C LOL20:47
chem|stViliny_: I do that for battery lifetime aswell... I get my netbook to playback videos for 6hours straight20:47
jogaerr...someone has proof of the device's lifetime declining significantly because of overclocking?20:47
MohammadAGRST38h, the guy who invented C it seems20:47
RST38hjoga: TI20:47
wall[e]if a hello world is too slow20:47
RST38hMohammad: He invented a letter of the alphabet?20:47
wall[e]you can improve it in compiler level20:48
wall[e]or io level20:48
DocScrutinizerRST38h: maybe it was Ritchie, or Pike20:48
jogaRST38h: running 100% all the time?20:48
jogaI mean, has someone's n900 broken down?20:48
wall[e]or memory allocation level20:48
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MohammadAGRST38h, yeah, amazing isn't it?20:48
chem|stjoga: you may find some info on stress tests for omap without overclocking, some of the older ones took about a day at 400MHz if I remember right20:48
* RST38h yawns widely20:48
RST38hMohammad: Learning something new daily...20:48
Viliny_meh, this isn't working out that well, most of you come across as elitist shutins right now20:49
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MohammadAGthen some guy thought he was smart and added maths to the equation, thus making C++20:49
Viliny_used to be fun talking in here20:49
jogachem|st: so in principle you're saying that a runaway process on my phone could ruin it in hours? ;)20:49
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wall[e]there were a moment in history that, a few doctors came out and say hey smoking is totally safe20:49
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chem|stjoga: no, that improved alot but I would not try to run it on fixed 600 for to long though20:50
wall[e]but for this both side needs some physical prove20:50
wall[e]at atomic level?20:50
jogachem|st: for some reason I'm tempted to try :)20:50
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RST38hMohammad: You mean the one named after the dead ostrich?20:51
jogapersonally I would *expect* nokia to have run it for long periods of 100% cpu use, but I dunno20:51
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chem|stjoga: well ask nokia for a spare device where something else is broken anyway to show people what the n900 is up for20:51
joga(that's what I would do if I were to release a phone, anyway. put it under stress for a few months and see)20:51
DocScrutinizer~wiki C_(programming_language)20:52
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Infobox programming language | name = C | paradigm = Imperative (procedural), structured | logo = | caption = "The C Programming Language" (also known as "K&R"), the seminal book on C | year = 1972 | designer = Dennis Ritchie | developer = Dennis Ritchie & Bell Labs | latest release version = C99 | latest release date = March 2000 | turing-complete = Yes | typing = ...20:52
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chem|stjoga: yeah the device stress tests look some kind different20:52
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DocScrutinizerK&R == Kernigan & Ritchie20:53
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chem|stI think the design will keep up to 4 years at least20:53
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GAN900lol, elitist shutins!20:53
DocScrutinizerooh, sorry20:53
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chem|stdoes someone know if the info is right that 125MHz was kept out of settings because of malfunctioning?20:53
GAN900Somebody should start a social club or something.20:53
MohammadAGRST38h, lolwut20:54
GAN900chem|st, no idea20:54
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GAN900chem|st, might prod Igor, though.20:54
DocScrutinizerchem|st: It's what rumor has20:54
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chem|stI dont find any omap3 device running at 125MHz so it might be two issues [instability; powerconsumption]20:55
chem|stI bet on #120:55
MohammadAGwhich causes #2 ;)20:56
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chem|stwell if you put it that way it should do yes20:56
MohammadAGdevice will take longer to be stable again20:56
wall[e]look for a free group gallery with rating button20:56
wall[e]flickr has a group one but i can't see rating20:56
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wall[e]for n900 art20:57
summelhow do i setup qemu on mac os for the qt creator sdk thingy beta?20:57
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GAN900DocScrutinizer / SpeedEvil / javispedro (and anybody else relevent), just wanted to thank you guys for all of your hacktivity. It's nice to see things happening. :)20:58
Dima_Sharihinnice =^.^=20:58
DocScrutinizerack, same here (as my contributions were actually small during last 24h of amazing progress)20:59
Viliny_one last thing, since you seem to know so much. How is the arm in the n900 different to desktop processors - if it is?20:59
DocScrutinizerViliny_: It's optimized for low power consumption. That afects virtually all aspects of the chip and its properties21:00
Viliny_ah i see21:00
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chem|stViliny_: the arm itself is a different architecture21:00
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Viliny_well basicly, you get so used to overclocking in the modern age when motherboards are coming out with built in overclocking and everyone doing it - my gaming laptop has a switch to overclock it - somewhere in all of this it just started to feel like a trivial thing. I have a 7 year computer which has been running heavily overclocked since day 1 without any problems and so has my current...21:02
Viliny_...newer computer21:02
Viliny_but i don't pretend i know exactly how things work under the hood21:02
pupnik_who does21:03
pupnik_ok finnish rail is pretty bad21:03
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DocScrutinizerViliny_: that overclocking is really minimal comared to what is going on with N900 right now. Also - as mentioned above - the chip is *very* different in its properties to a usual Intel x86 processor21:04
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Viliny_So with all this and the huge overclocking thread with all it's supporters is going to end with a lot of users with dead phones in less than a year?21:05
pupnik_and ppl are ocing up to 50 pct21:05
DocScrutinizerViliny_: yes21:05
MohammadAGhopefully :P21:06
Viliny_MohammadAG: why do you hate overclockers then? :P21:06
Viliny_i mean, it's their phone, right?21:06
* MohammadAG thanks DocScrutinizer for that21:06
DocScrutinizerViliny_: until it becomes my phone when I buy a used one that'll fail after 4 weeks21:07
pupnik_a fun experiment for ti.  wonder if we could get a report of time spent in OC21:07
wall[e]to know when oc'ed device will die and sell it a week before that is an art(!)21:08
Viliny_do you guys have any sources discussing overclocking and risks on arm processors?21:08
MohammadAGof thievery21:08
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: don't you know several apps like HAM already have hidden cpufreq analysis and reporting, and recent downtime in was to implement the 'call home' ? :-)21:08
* MohammadAG doubts that21:09
wall[e]but with a few human experiments the time would be more precise.21:09
Dima202overclocking is baad.. mkay?21:09
MohammadAGif there was 1 it'd have 10 views or so21:09
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MohammadAGo/ ossipena21:09
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ossipenahi MohammadAG21:09
wall[e]and you won't be able to sell non oc'ed device if oc devices start dying21:10
DocScrutinizerViliny_: search wikipedia for 'electromigration'21:10
wall[e]coz nobody will know if yours is oc'ed or not21:10
DocScrutinizerwall[e]: exactly21:10
ossipenawhat was the dev channel name?21:11
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MohammadAG#maemo-dev i think21:11
summelnot if you have more then 1 developer21:12
JoefrigWhat if I overclock overclock for like an hour and then switch back? Thats it? warranty is voided even if device fails one year from now?21:12
Dima202Joefrig You only get one year warranty21:12
ossipenawondered too because maemo-dev was empty21:12
DocScrutinizerJoefrig: yes21:12
MohammadAGno dev channel?21:12
Joefrighow do they know tho?21:13
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: devel!21:13
DocScrutinizerJoefrig: see wikipedia 'electromigration'21:13
wall[e]all finger prints over O and C buttons!21:13
MohammadAGfriendly welcome WARNING: Trolls will be booted on first troll21:14
Viliny_DocScrutinizer yes i read some of that wikipage but i just wondered if there would be an article about these particular processors falling victim to this effect21:14
DocScrutinizerViliny_: it's all in TI's datasheet for the processor21:14
Viliny_im sorry, TI ?21:14
MohammadAGossipena, #maemo-devel it is then..21:14
BCMMok, i've made myself two ekiga accounts, and set one up on the n90021:15
MohammadAGTexas Instruments21:15
BCMMi can call their echo service on my pc, works fine21:15
BCMMi can call the phone from the pc, and hear sound from the pc21:15
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: [2010-05-07 20:12:04] <DocScrutinizer> #maemo-devel  :-P21:15
BCMMbut no sound from phone on pc21:15
BCMMi can call the PC from the phone21:15
BCMMit connects, but no sound21:15
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, lol forgot to quote you ;p21:15
Viliny_im having a hard time finding anything with google on the subject - i guess i should stop asking about this21:16
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MohammadAGmic dead?21:16
summelBCMM: there is a bug in telepathy with ekiga accounts21:16
MohammadAGwho ya gonna call? GhostBusters! :P21:16
chem|stBCMM: I'd say your pc settings are wrong, have you tried to call another phone?21:16
summelyou should use another provider or/and hope they fix ekiga in pr 1.2 if they ever will21:17
DocScrutinizerBCMM: try with a decent phone instead of PC21:17
chem|stsummel: oh nice21:17
summelchem|st: yes :D21:17
BCMMchem|st: well, the PC is ekiga with an account21:17
BCMMchem|st: and it works fine on thier echo service21:17
Viliny_"The ARM Cortex™-A8 processor is based on the ARMv7 architecture and has the ability to scale in speed from 600MHz to greater than 1GHz." - Is this not what the N900 is using?21:17
summeli just registered with another free sip provider :)21:17
chem|stViliny_: just stop oc and go for tweaking instead21:17
BCMMsummel: ah, thanks21:17
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MohammadAGViliny_, yes21:17
summelbut i use jingle more often then sip21:17
BCMMsummel: who would you recommend? i'm kinda overwhelmed by the number of SIP providers21:18
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Viliny_chem|st: any tips on flash performance?21:18
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summelBCMM: just asecond i check what provider i used :D21:18
chem|stViliny_: the series is able to yes but the version used for n900 is limited to 60021:18
JoefrigDocScrutinizer: Do Nokia really go through the process of checking traces of atoms to see if it's been overclocked?21:18
BCMMsummel: ideally, one which can make calls to landlines, and is peered with other SIP networks21:18
chem|stViliny_: SD or build in?21:18
Viliny_chem|st: has that limitation or is limited to?21:18
summelBCMM: afaik they also do landlines (but you have to pay for that of course)21:19
chem|sthas that limitation21:19
BCMMViliny_: that the CPU itself can scale to that frequency does not imply that the n900 can dissapate heat from the CPU when it runs at that frequency21:19
Viliny_chem|st: SD or build in? I'm sorry i didn't understand that21:19
DocScrutinizerJoefrig: no, that's another point why we hate OCers. Nokia will simply say "OC - no warranty" no matter what the actual cause of failure was21:19
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MohammadAGit's not heat...21:19
chem|stBCMM: whats wrong with sipgate?21:19
BCMMchem|st: uh, lemme think, i tried a few21:19
BCMMchem|st: i think it wouldn't make calls to ekiga21:20
chem|stViliny_: for flash... and now I am the riddle king... you mean flash as in adobe21:20
Viliny_yes i mean the flash support in microb21:20
BCMMsummel: and sip2sip can basically make calls to other sip networks?21:20
JoefrigDocScrutinizer: I understand, it is unfair if someone fried their device and then starts complaining to Nokia21:20
DocScrutinizerJoefrig: though you bet Nokia will find ways to tell the device was overclocked, even without electron microscopy21:20
summelBCMM: yes that is for free :)21:20
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BCMMsummel: thanks21:21
chem|stViliny_: have you tried firefox for flash?21:21
summelthough i could not successfully test video sip calls because i only have one sip contact :D21:21
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BCMMsummel: do you mind if i ask you when i get stuck working out configuration21:21
BCMMsummel: the n900 does SIP video calls?21:21
Viliny_chem|st: it seemed slower overall so i went with the assumption that flash would be bad as well21:21
summelsure, but i dont know if i can help... i only registered and made it work on the n900 i dont call landlines with sip :D21:21
DocScrutinizerJoefrig: see wikipedia JTAG, to get an idea21:22
BCMMsummel: well, i'm pretty confused about sip in general21:22
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chem|stBCMM: with pr1.2 it will21:22
summelBCMM: when i cal my sip contact i can see the camera button for a short time so i guess it can21:22
summelbut i know the contacts client has problems with video calls21:22
dhqBCMM: i dont get that  :(21:22
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JoefrigDocScrutinizer: yah if the device was o/c'ed when it died they could read that info using jtag21:22
Viliny_chem|st: so no, haven't tested it21:23
DocScrutinizerJoefrig: they also can spot the location of a breakage down to very few gates on a chip, and then consider how likely it is those gates failed by another reason than OC21:24
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DocScrutinizerthis can be done independantly of the kernel that's in NAND when the device breaks21:24
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: isn't that too much work?21:24
* DocScrutinizer shrugs21:24
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DocScrutinizer...or they go the simple route and claim "OC" no matter what the actual error is21:25
JoefrigDocScrutinizer: yeah they are looking at the hardware itself21:25
DocScrutinizerwhatever is earning more money to Nokia21:25
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Shapeshifterhas a single device been destroyed yet?21:26
chem|stViliny_: I got only initial hickups but those I have with a dualcore just the same....21:26
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DocScrutinizerI bet several were destroyed, but nobody will let you know21:26
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: I kinda doubt they wouldn't come whining on tmo.21:26
* DocScrutinizer shrugs again21:27
chem|stShapeshifter: after the last discussion I doubt they come...21:27
Viliny_The people who thought their device went poof came and complained so i have a hard time thinking those with the real deal wouldn't21:27
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BCMMsummel: not working :(21:28
DocScrutinizernota bene the CPU won't explode in a sudden, it just starts throwing more and more errors, segfaulting processes, freezing for no apparent reason, and so on21:28
BCMMi can call my pc, it rings, it connects21:28
BCMMno sound21:28
BCMMi cannot call the phone from the pc21:28
BCMMi can IM from the phone to the PC21:28
Shapeshifterand about the 500mhz idle being dangerous - well at least you *could* lock it at 412mhz. that's what the iphone uses and I haven't seen those go poof.21:28
BCMMbut i cannot send IM from the pc21:28
MohammadAGShapeshifter, the battery would go poof21:29
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: my n900 is already freezing for no apparent reason and I'm not overclocking :P21:29
DocScrutinizerBCMM: NAT issue?21:29
BCMMi suspect the phone will not so much break as wear out at a greatly increased rate21:29
BCMMDocScrutinizer: probably...21:29
BCMMDocScrutinizer: but they are both on the same network21:29
Viliny_Someone on talk mentioned that other devices using the same processor are running at 800mhz, thoughts?21:29
BCMMDocScrutinizer: so i don't understand the assymetry21:30
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: see? how likely is it you'll blame OC if that gets more frequent?21:30
BCMMViliny_: those other devices have different power supplies and different thermal management21:30
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: mh? I was joking anyway, because IO is so damn slow.21:30
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Shapeshifter / makes the device freeze21:30
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Viliny_BCMM: heat wasn't an issue, remember?21:31
DocScrutinizerBCMM: and probably different chip version21:31
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, did you fix the pwr btn?21:31
BCMMViliny_: why isn't heat an issue?21:31
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: 2 SIP clients behind same NAT always is asking for trouble21:31
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BCMMDocScrutinizer: worse than 2 sip clients behind different NATs?21:32
Viliny_BCMM: i don't know, it's been repeated here several times now21:32
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: no. For now I'm practicing how to push it the right way21:32
BCMMi'll give it a go on 3g21:32
DocScrutinizerBCMM: yes21:32
Shapeshifterstill, before a clear verdict has been reached, I think claims in both directions are just wild guesses. Just because some guy from nokia said not to lock it at high frequencies (which would be using the cpu outside it's specs) doesn't mean it's all evil and stuff. I haven't seen any evidence regarding a notable difference in speed anywhere, I haven't seen any evidence for cpu's being damaged (yet).21:32
Shapeshifterit's all "*shrug"21:32
Shapeshifter s/speed/fluidity21:33
DocScrutinizerBCMM: (heat) see wikipedia 'electromigration'21:33
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pupnik_we do have docs from ti21:33
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BCMMi should point out that i wasn't arguing that your device will be damaged; i was arguing that it is plausible that it will be21:34
DocScrutinizer/mode +m21:34
BCMMin practise, there will be a safe degree to which it can be overclocked21:34
BCMMthat nobody knows yet21:34
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* DocScrutinizer needs more coffee21:34
MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> /mode +m <-- please?21:35
Viliny_gonna wear out that wikipedia page doc21:35
BCMMon 3g, i can't even send im or connect a call21:35
Shapeshifterstill, I wonder if the cache flush when clock-scaling has a notable impact on the experience.21:35
* pupnik_ has worn through n900 kbd21:35
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: try to call (from) a decent landline phone to your N900 SIP client21:36
Viliny_Alright, well i'm sorry for bringing this topic to the channel discussion. I honestly didn't know you guys despised overclocking the device so much... in fact i even thought you would like the idea - wasn't my intention to start any arguments or unpleasantries here... with that apology ill f off and stop bothering you all21:36
BCMMDocScrutinizer: oh, i forgot it gave me a real number21:36
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DocScrutinizerViliny_: you're welcome21:37
lcuklook, right now this discussion is moot we have official word saying just dont bother - thats been there from the start and made very clear by eero, the only people who can officially say otherwise are gonna be eero and the system sw guys after discussions with ti themselves -21:37
wall[e]mom said i spoke too fast on OC device21:37
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Viliny_who is eero lcuk ? a nokia worker?21:38
DocScrutinizerlcuk: could you set up an autoresponder for that, please? :-D21:38
BCMMapparently i forget it didn't give me a real number :(21:39
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RST38hAh, cool, these guys switched to self service now:
DocScrutinizerBCMM: switch for a decent SIP provider then ;-P ekiga is crap anyway (for the provider side for sure). I suggest sipgate.(de|at|uk) if that applies to you21:40
HBwhat scientific research is there that proves that 601 mhz will severely reduce the life time of said device, when the processor (65nm LP) is marketet to handle up to 800 mhz  ?21:40
BCMMDocScrutinizer: i'm using sip2sip ATM21:41
BCMMHB: nobody said 601 will kill it21:41
BCMMHB: nobody knows what will kill it21:41
arachnistHB: it might have been downclocked for other reasons than potential lifetime21:41
arachnistHB: like heat21:41
HBfor the electromigration problems, as long as using the same voltage it should not be an issue? right?21:41
lcukbattery life is one of my principle things21:41
DocScrutinizerHB: wrong21:42
lcukscrew anything else - mainting a healthy phone between charges outweighs anything, and we have plenty of horsepower to run all the apps we need21:42
Dima202Has anyone tried porting Deluge?21:42
DocScrutinizerHB: omap has a special technology called SmartReflex, that decouples core from core voltage21:43
HBit is totally absurd to claim that 100% usage on 600mhz would not cause the same strain as an OCd device as long as the electrodensity is kept the same21:43
RST38hlcuk: Sorry to disappoint your zeal, but apparently, overclocked n900s do not eat that much more power21:43
DocScrutinizerHB: and it's not volage but current which causes electromigration21:43
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lcukRST38h, a runaway process does21:43
RST38hlcuk: Probably because they still spend most of their time at lower frequencies21:43
chem|stDocScrutinizer: HB yeah current21:43
lcukyeah i know21:43
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lcukjust as now we run at lower frequencies most of the time21:44
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chem|stHB its like perforating an Al-foil with a needle or a shotgun21:44
RST38hlcuk: Besides, the overclocked kernels actually lower core voltage21:44
chem|stin this case a Cu-foil with electrons21:44
RST38hlcuk: So, that higher current argument should also be taken with a bit of caution21:44
TuukkaUmmm, how do i update usb drivers on ubuntu? My portable hd ain't working with it (doesn't detect)21:45
DocScrutinizerHB: I.E electron density is a function of cpufrq and SmartReflex action, but not of core voltage21:45
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Viliny_Tuukka: have you tried #ubuntu?21:45
HBi still maintain that the research into this is pretty dim, the circumstances are what decides the outcome, will there be more idle time on a oc processor e.g. and how big the higher rate is compared to the original.21:45
TuukkaViliny_: ?21:46
chem|stTuukka: what does dmsg say?21:46
RST38hHB: A lot of research into the causes of cancer is pretty dim21:46
Viliny_Tuukka: You asked a ubuntu related question on a maemo channel - im confused about your confusion?21:46
RST38hHB: Will you risk it though?21:46
HBthis is not talk about cancer matey, this is talks about electronics21:46
DocScrutinizerHB: seems TI has done pretty broad research into that, and gave us the results21:46
HBcould you please link me the results, i obviously have some reading to do..21:47
Viliny_DocScrutinizer: have you got a link to that material so i could have a look?21:47
Viliny_Oh and btw, i just reflashed to original - for all the haters :)21:47
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Tuukkathere's some highspeed usb devices21:47
pupnik_RST38h: precisely21:47
Viliny_AND i intend to tell any buyers about the oc if i ever end up selling the phone21:48
MohammadAGhi johnsq21:48
chem|stHB: research on this matter made it possible to reduce size, I may not call it research if a bunch of el engineers do that by try and error but you might do...21:48
RST38hHB: Texas Instruments rates the chips it sells to Nokia at 600MHz top21:48
chem|stViliny_: that way you may pack it up as present21:48
DocScrutinizerViliny_: check  -  they provide all the papers, you just need to find the right one. Sorry no decent pointer here atm, as their download interface is really awkward21:48
RST38hHB: Even on that frequency, they have got a relatively short time between failures21:49
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Shapeshiftermh. I want a fuel cell for my n900. :>21:49
RST38hHB: No, "matey", if you are willing to disprove that, it is ok to go ahead and overclock your own device21:49
Viliny_chem|st: pack it up as present?21:49
RST38hHB: As long as you are aware of voiding your warranty, that is fine and dandy21:50
HBi own no n900 matey :)21:50
MohammadAGShapeshifter, why a fuel cell? I want nuclear cells!21:50
RST38hHB: But would you please spare us all the necessity of listening to your endless chatter about it?21:50
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: well a fuel cell might actually be feasable. I'd love it. probably...21:51
RST38hHB: If you do not own an n900, then I am not even sure WHY you are talking about this oc subject21:51
MohammadAGShapeshifter, a nuclear 1 is feasable too21:51
HBim intrested in the processor in it self, as well as any device running on it21:51
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RST38hShouldn't you be talking about ovecrlocking your iPhone or Android instead?21:51
ShapeshifterMohammadAG: the best thing about it is the recharge time of like 5 seconds.21:51
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ShapeshifterHB: why? it's an outdated chip anyway.21:51
MohammadAGwell, nuclear batteries should have 1.5k lifetime on one charge21:51
RST38hYou can get a 1GHz-rated OMAP3 from TI and use it.21:52
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* DocScrutinizer away for more coffe, mumbling XXX-rated stuff21:52
MohammadAG(depending on half life)21:52
RST38hN900 has a 600MHz-rated OMAP3.21:52
BCMMif i can connect to a SIP account when on wifi, but can't when on 3g, does that mean my network is blocking SIP?21:52
lcukMohammadAG, nuclear batteries should not leave me with additional testicles tho21:52
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RST38hAny more questions?21:52
javispedroah, overclocking!21:52
RST38hmoo javispedro21:52
DocScrutinizerhi javispedro21:52
DocScrutinizergreat deal of work done on hostmode today :-D21:52
MohammadAGRST38h, yes, why do we all moo?21:52
MohammadAGhey javispedro21:53
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: thanks a lot21:53
BusterBI saw the thread about using a wiimote as a gamepad. Is there anyway to use it to control kmplayer?21:53
RST38hMohammad: No idea why you moo. I moo because I am a cow.21:53
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: UGT21:53
javispedroDocScrutinizer: at this point I am not following what egoshin is doing though21:53
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
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RST38hheya hrw21:54
javispedrohey hrw21:54
hrwhow to make screenshot of maemo5 from shell?21:54
javispedrohrw: you did also n900 host mode work previously iirc?21:54
hrwjavispedro: no21:54
hrwI have modest in portrait21:55
javispedrohrw: there's a tool, "screenshot-tool"21:55
javispedroshould be in some repo, probably tools21:55
Shapeshifterthe video quality of the n900 is awesome. i'm amazed everytime.21:55
hrwso far tried to use in portrait: modest, witter, conversations21:55
Shapeshifterpicture quality is abysmal, video quality is sweet.21:55
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hrwjavispedro: sdk/tools?21:56
lcukShapeshifter, yeah when i used macro recording n900-n900 i was surprised21:56
lcukcrystal clear recording21:56
Shapeshifterit's amazing. what do you mean by n900-n900?21:57
wall[e]is underclocking safe?21:57
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Viliny_Shapeshifter: recorded video?21:57
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javispedrohrw: think so21:58
ShapeshifterViliny_: recording using the camera, yes.21:58
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Viliny_ah yeah, really a lottery with the camera21:58
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Viliny_haven't played back any video yet21:58
hrwshift-ctrl-r shortcut roxx22:00
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zokieris it possible to get raw data from camera or does it produce jpegs directly on hardware?22:02
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fluxzokier, I don't know, but it's pretty advanced so I guess it can do both ways. but bandwidth might be an issue if you want many images.22:03
lcuknice hrw!22:03
Shapeshiftermh. well that is odd. I installed transitioncontrol but it doesn't show up in the more menu. I did dpkg -L transitioncontrol to see what files it owns and /usr/share/applications/hildon/transitioncontrol.desktop is there and the contents look okay.22:03
Shapeshifterwhy's it not in the more menu?22:03
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hrwlcuk: no hacks - just LR1.2 + one shortcut22:04
hrw shows that witter needs some help22:04
lcukyeah hrw :) you gonna make a writeup of eveyrthing that works well22:05
lcukhey! im on that photo22:05
MohammadAGoooh, it has portrait now?22:06
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ShapeshifterI'd be happy if modest would enable me to select text ...22:06
hrwMohammadAG: there is a debug shortcut in hildon to switch app to portrait22:06
javispedroDocScrutinizer: a question though, what happens if vbus is literally 0v when trying to be host of a selfpowered hub? does it depend on the hub, does the standard dictate something?22:06
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hrwMohammadAG: you need LR1.2 for it22:07
hrwjavispedro: I am using powered hubs which do not have +5v line with beagleboard22:07
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: depends on hub for all I know22:07
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MohammadAGhrw, can't i just use the 1.2 hildon desktop?22:07
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hrwMohammadAG: do backup and try22:08
hrwMohammadAG: prepare for reflashing anyway22:08
javispedroI have the suspicion that my hub might use host vbus22:08
javispedrofor its controller22:08
MohammadAGand why's that22:08
MohammadAGI have the packages for 1.2 installed for about a week22:08
DocScrutinizerI have a hub here that clearly doesn't care about VBUS on upstream port, as it is simply linked to the external power receptacle via a diode aiui22:09
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javispedrohrw: hey, you have a beagleboard?22:09
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javispedrothe one with a working otg port?22:09
hrwjavispedro: 322:09
MohammadAGctrl shift r you say, it works!22:09
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: see
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DocScrutinizerhrw: heh, could we ask you to do some simple tests for us? :-)22:10
javispedro++ :)22:10
hrwjavispedro: B7 + 2xC3 - all worked22:10
hrwDocScrutinizer: after UDS-M please. so 17th May22:11
DocScrutinizerhmm, k22:11
hrwDocScrutinizer: today I do not want to play with BB and next week I am at uds-m22:11
DocScrutinizerwhatever UDS-M might be22:11
javispedroubuntu summit iirc22:11
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hrwubuntu developers summit (maverick)22:11
hrwDocScrutinizer: I work for Canonical22:12
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VDVsxlol, very good22:13
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DocScrutinizerhrw: but never mind, we all do stuff we would like to be different22:13
javispedroah, the igepv2 has a tsp65950 instead of twl304022:14
DocScrutinizerprobably canonical isn't the worst you can find22:14
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Shapeshifterhrw: can you kick the guy that decided licensing H.264?22:14
Shapeshifteror girl22:14
javispedrobut the ips is pin compatible with the 3040 iirc22:14
Shapeshifterwho knows22:14
hrwDocScrutinizer: ;)22:14
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: huh?22:14
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javispedroI was once thinking of buying
javispedrobeagleboard-alike with wi-fi22:15
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javispedronote the usb host connected to ehci controller and otg to musb22:15
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: no idea what's a igepv2, but on N900 we also have TSP65950 iirc, aka TWL5030/403022:16
javispedros/ips/tsp :P22:16
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I think the tsp65950 is the 4030 with fixed charger detection22:17
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DocScrutinizerecho musb_hdrc >unload; modprobe OHCI_HCD22:18
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DocScrutinizerI wonder how we should 'disable bme' like suggested by blue_led22:19
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (fixed chrg_det) makes sense22:20
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javispedrohm, they do not share pins22:21
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: please also read every now and then22:21
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javispedroah, interesting.22:22
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javispedroanother interesting test would be to try to boot a host mode only kernel. this probably will be more easy with a meego image or something less prone to crashing on boot.22:25
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javispedroaiui beagleboards with those.22:26
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javispedrobtw in case you're interesting when looking through the kernel, the n8x0 host stuff is in the n900 kernel. instead of omap2430.c they use
* pupnik toasts javispedro and channel22:28
* javispedro zaps pupnik22:28
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javispedroat least we know the n8x0 one works perfectly.22:29
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* javispedro --> out.22:30
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Khertanlol ... while looking at for the first time22:36
Khertani look at ranking ...22:36
Khertanand just before my position i see GeneralAntilles22:36
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: search schematics for 'Vdigimic'; please tell me what you think22:38
Viliny_Khertan: i thought you were top 3 at first :)22:40
Khertanand ... nope :)22:40
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Khertanbut from what i see many of my project aren't in this tracker22:40
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Khertanabout maemo on ohloh : Decreasing year-over-year development activity22:42
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fralswhere does it pull from?22:43
lcukKhertan, then get coding more22:43
Khertanlcuk, yep22:43
Khertanbut as i'm learning a new framework22:44
Khertani made many mistake :)22:44
Khertanbut it s in progress :22:44
lcukif generalantilles is ahead of you then that means its not noticing everything22:44
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Khertan < :)22:45
Khertanit s funny to see that highlighting syntax and kinectic scrolling are more faster in qt22:45
Khertan(and easier to do)22:45
lcukis there really that big a difference when you are coding in python?22:46
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Khertanhum ... the framework :)22:46
oilgame_I have problem with apt-get -> I cant install or upgrade anything, it just says "E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (2)". Graphical application manager installs applications without any problems.
Khertana framework that take for search a regex22:47
Khertanand one that didn't use it ... mean that you need to do it yourself22:47
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Khertanso you pass more time in python ... so a bit slower22:47
Khertanbut a counter example is the keyPressEvent22:47
Khertani didn't understand why it s slower than the equivalent things with gtk22:48
Khertanand yes this make diff22:48
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DocScrutinizer597  * REVISIT: It would be possible to add support for changing between host22:57
DocScrutinizer598  * and peripheral modes in non-OTG configurations by reconfiguring hardware22:57
DocScrutinizer599  * and then setting musb->board_mode. For now, only support OTG mode.22:57
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pupnikare we hunting wabbits?23:09
Viliny_does having battery eye and battery graph contribute noticeably to the battery getting drained?23:12
Viliny_i mean if they track the battery life constantly23:13
DocScrutinizermight be23:13
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DocScrutinizerwhat's wabbits?23:14
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DocScrutinizer~dict wabbit23:14
infobotDictionary 'wabbit' (1 of 2): /wab'it/ [almost certainly from Elmer Fudd's immortal line "You wascawwy wabbit!"]  1. A legendary early hack reported on a System/360 at RPI and elsewhere around 1978; this may have descended (if only by inspiration) from hack called RABBITS reported from 1969 on a Burroughs 55000 at the University of Washington Computer Center.  The program would make two copies of itself every time it was run, eventually crashing ...23:15
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: at :2823:15
Viliny_DocScrutinizer - if the beforementioned apps constantly wake the processor or something to that effect?23:15
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DocScrutinizerViliny_: yep, possibly23:16
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Viliny_is there a program for maemo like the one i had in ubuntu from ... intel or nvidia which diagnosed the laptop to determine worst cpu wake uppers?23:17
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Viliny_and then suggest steps to get better battery life?23:17
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lcukViliny_, theres powertop23:18
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lcukbut if its in ubuntu - is it a gui app?23:18
lcukor just a console report?23:18
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Shapeshiftermh. powertop ain't packaged.23:19
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lcukShapeshifter, ?23:22
Shapeshifterapt-cache search powertop didn't show it >.>23:23
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: I had to download the pkg somewhere. Sorry forgot the source URL23:24
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: mhh23:26
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Shapeshifterbut this is odd. if it's on the packages page, why can't I find it in extras-devel23:27
CabletwitchI appear to have confused the media player somewhat XD23:27
ManoftheSeaHello, I'm not a bot, but I will be immediately going idle.23:27
Shapeshifterah wait. "building failed"23:27
Shapeshifterit's broken and the packager didn't finish his job ;)23:27
lcukManoftheSea, why?23:27
CabletwitchAnyone have any clue as to how you'd nuke phantom entries in the media players library?23:28
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CabletwitchIts gone from claiming 11k files to jjst over 5k, but its driving me mental.23:29
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CabletwitchOn a related note, dont ever copy the entire L4D2 folder to your N900 unless you want the same problem XD23:29
SpeedEvilCabletwitch: nule the tracker db23:30
MohammadAGtracker-processes -r23:30
CabletwitchHmm. A terminal job, then?23:31
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SpeedEvil /home/user/.tracker/*23:31
CabletwitchLemme guess, gonna need to go root to do that?23:31
SpeedEvilwell - actually - no23:31
DocScrutinizerfor /home/user? I'd be surprised23:32
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CabletwitchYou may recall I'm barely above new user with these sorts of things. Be gentle :O)23:32
DocScrutinizerNokia'd be better off keeping away from tracker a lightyear23:33
CabletwitchI'm the system-proof idiot that manages to stuff up idiot-proof systems.23:33
ManoftheSealcuk: because I'll be coming back eventually, and I'll be able to view the community standards.23:33
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ruskiefun... finally the ~/ filesystem crashed and took most of the data with it on the n90023:33
CabletwitchGlad to know I'm not the only one breaking stuff.23:34
ruskiewell this was just normal use23:34
lcukManoftheSea, thats reasonable - where do you normally hang out and what sort of community do you expect to see here?23:34
ruskierepartitioned mmc but still if the init process supported fscking every so often this wouldn't have happened23:35
ManoftheSeaI'll be asking questions.  But I love my linux handheld.  Away now23:35
ruskieI think I went through some 10 fscks on all mmc partitions using the handy and a fbcon capable kernel :)23:36
ruskiethe 10 fscks were due to all the errors that kept happening23:36
* Cabletwitch understood about 10% of what ruskie said.23:36
ruskienow I'm wondering if I should reimport contacts and configure it back to par or reflash it with meego and have a play with that or reflash it with 1.1 and go from there again23:38
ShadowJKI fsck'd non-mounted /home and that nuked it :)23:38
DocScrutinizerCabletwitch: listen to MohammadAG !23:38
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: tracker-processes [OPTION...]  - Manage Tracker processes and data; -r, --hard-reset     This will kill all Tracker processes and remove all databases23:39
DocScrutinizerCabletwitch: ^^^23:39
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ShadowJKit was "mounted with errors" but working fine before that.. I shouldn't have ran fsck :)23:39
Cabletwitchso... tracker-processes --hard-reset?23:39
ruskieShadowJK, yeah same here... though it wasn't working fine23:40
ruskiewas losing files and so on23:40
CabletwitchI'll go give that a try. See if I cant break something else while I'm at it.23:40
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ruskieyou can't put a fs that requires maintenance every so often and skip the maintenance23:40
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ruskiegood thing I have some backup of all the stuff from january or so23:43
DocScrutinizerfsck fuckng instead fsckng isn't really nice, it's fsckng nasty23:43
CabletwitchNo, that didnt work. looks like the entries for these files are still present in the system, even after the files were deleted.23:43
DocScrutinizerCabletwitch: that's really strange23:44
DocScrutinizerCabletwitch: you restarted the mediaplayer?23:44
CabletwitchMight have had something do do with it going mental while removong said files.23:44
MohammadAGtracker-processes --hard-reset23:44
MohammadAGcheck /home space23:44
CabletwitchRestarted everything.23:44
MohammadAGcheck /home space23:44
DocScrutinizer~nuke tracker23:44
* Cabletwitch goes to check...23:45
DocScrutinizer~nuke tracker23:45
MohammadAGtracker is protected by nokia23:45
DocScrutinizer~lart tracker23:45
* infobot beats tracker to within 2.54cm of his life23:45
MohammadAG~nuke infobot23:45
DocScrutinizer~factinfo nuke23:45
infobotnuke -- last modified at Fri Jul  7 07:31:41 2006 by mikk1!; it has been requested 15 times, last by Tuukka, 4d 8h 26m 51s ago.23:45
infobotCockroach. I win.23:47
infobot[docscrutinizer] jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko23:47
DocScrutinizerdon't get it23:47
infobotCockroach. I win.23:48
DocScrutinizer~nuke x23:48
CabletwitchOk, nothing out of the ordinary, as far as my untrained eye can see.23:48
MohammadAGhome isn't 100%?23:48
CabletwitchI wonder if whatever equivilant of the FAT table didnt get updated properly when it spazzed out while deleting those files.23:49
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CabletwitchMohammadAG: I'm really unfamiliar with linux and its filesystem, so all I can tell you is there are no unexpected files.23:49
CabletwitchThis is me on my learning cliff.23:50
MohammadAGdf, and see how much space is free23:51
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infobotrumour has it, df is at the top of the shot as well, reporting I still have 1.1M available - 62% usage23:52
CabletwitchOne sec...23:52
lcukCabletwitch, df shows you all the partitions/mounts in use and their free space23:52
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lcukwe should really have decent explanations of the common maemo stuff23:52
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lcukand whats expected for a normal run23:53
CabletwitchOk, so what ma23:53
lcuksimple help yourself steps23:53
* lcuk mmms23:53
CabletwitchWhat am I looking for?23:53
lcukMohammadAG, what does he need to check23:53
CabletwitchDone the df, need to know what to tell you.23:53
* lcuk came into convo half way through23:54
lcukrootfs should have some space avail, tell us the use % also23:54
DocScrutinizergot .thumbnails and /home/user/.local/share/tracker but no .tracker23:54
MohammadAG/dev/mmcblk0p2         2064208   1561328    398024  80% /home23:55
CabletwitchAhh, one sec.23:55
CabletwitchMine is /dev/mmcblk0p1, and its... 13%23:56
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CabletwitchNo, my bad.23:57
DocScrutinizerthat's MyDocs23:57
CabletwitchMissed the right one XD23:57
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CabletwitchPresumably, thats the free space?23:58
DocScrutinizerused space23:58
CabletwitchAhh, thats less worrying then.23:58
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CabletwitchIf nothing else, I'm learning :O)23:59
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