IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-04-28

lcukGAN900, a wear spot?00:00
lcukand also, what was that thing you said b400:00
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* Arkenoi_ had one microscratch (invisible without really close inpection) on my previous n900 and none on recent one00:01
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woglindehi lcuk00:01
GAN900lcuk, dunno what from, but there's a circular wear area on the screen next to the statusbar00:02
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GAN900lcuk, stupid old Flickr reference.00:02
GeneralAntilleslcuk, a bunch of these guys were spawning when I was down at the beach.
GeneralAntillesI got pictures for you. ;)00:03
lcukhaha oh yeahh - now i remember the convo00:03
lcukhiya woglinde00:03
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lcuki must get round to screen protecting my phone00:04
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: replace ts?00:04
lcuktracy has scratched hers already playing angrybirds00:04
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, it's a proto, I'll just get another if it comes down to it.00:04
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GeneralAntillesSince my earpiece is going anyway.00:04
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woglindebeagleboard pics00:05
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lcukGeneralAntilles, the decals on the maemo porsche suit it better than the meego one00:06
JaffaLast N900 I got had 4 dead pixels; stuck on white. So it went back to Nokia.00:06
lcuki like the grey trim00:06
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, I still need to do the stupid MeeGoites for the MeeGo one.00:07
GeneralAntillesThat'll pull it together better00:07
lcukyeah will help00:07
GeneralAntillesIt's really only half finished, so.00:07
tybolltmsaemo porche?00:07
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tybolltgrey and white00:08
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tybolltthat's actually good looking00:08
JaffaShould be the company car, provided by Nokia, for the council chair.00:08
* lcuk paste failed00:08
* GeneralAntilles could go for a GT2.00:08
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* Stskeeps is tired about all the people who didn't do shit to contribute complain about N8x0 and Mer.00:08
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woglindestskeep what?00:09
* woglinde contributes to n8x000:09
JaffaStskeeps: The number of people on tmo who think they're the community, but confine themselves to threads I never go near and never interact beyond these ghettos astound me.00:09
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, it's, like, 2 dozen people at most.00:10
GeneralAntillesJaffa, they're just SUPER VOCAL. :P00:10
GeneralAntillesI love the expressions I got from Quim in the photos of his talk at LFSF.00:10
GeneralAntillesI wish that were higher resolution.00:10
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rm_youGA: I love that it says "Collaboration" but all you can see is "Aboration", makes me think "Aberration" :P00:12
FIQyay, i somehow got rid of the boot logo00:12
FIQi don't know how i did but i never liked it00:12
SpeedEvilthe boot logo?00:13
SpeedEvilor the boot animation?00:13
FIQbut only just for knowing if i want it back for some reason: how to put it back?00:13
FIQthe anim00:13
woglindefiq take a hammer00:13
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Nah, I wandered into the PR1.2 thread. It's like the overclocking one, but without the intelligence.00:15
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lcuktheres intelligence in the overclocking?00:15
lcuki suppose theres logical testing00:15
Jaffalcuk: Compared with the PR1.2 one there is.00:15
lcukto some degree00:15
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lbtX-Fade: ping... I could do with 3 IPs00:16
lcukjaffa i use the vaispy thing and just get a snapshot every now and then00:16
lbtJaffa: RWG thread ... :)00:16
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GAN900Jaffa, ouch00:18
FIQARM Debian's package is usually incompatible with Maemo, often due to missing libs... why didn't N900 put those common libs in, or at least, the maemo community in some repository? except for the optifying, it shouldn't be any problems... or?00:18
SpeedEvillcuk: for example - that's what I'd like some broken n900 motherboards for00:18
SpeedEvillcuk: getting them so they can boot, and locking them on max_volt and 1100MHz - and running folding@home on them00:19
microlithFIQ: because ARM Debian is a totally different distribution00:19
SpeedEvillcuk: and see when the first one fails00:19
FIQso i/we easily could add Debians repositories and get thousends applications available from start?00:19
quest_is someone here who can help me with the app fmms?00:19
FIQthey share package manager, but that's the only thing they share?00:19
microlithall you'd need is for some upgrade of a core library to screw everything up00:19
SpeedEvilFIQ:  memory footprint is _important_00:19
microlithFIQ: effectively, yes00:20
microlithsome filesystem layout, but not much else00:20
SpeedEvilFIQ: you want as few duplicate libs on the device as you can00:20
lcukfiq they share history, but theres maemoisms involved to make a lot of packages (especially those with ui) work00:20
FIQthough they had more things they share, but ok00:20
SpeedEvilFIQ: Three font renderers for example - supporting different programs in memory - will use a lot of RAM00:20
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lcukStskeeps, does the mer being produced for joggler still boot happily on 900?00:23
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Stskeepslcuk: it's not really getting produced, it was just some way to use the codebase00:23
Stskeepsbut the same OS works on n900 yes00:23
lcukso, you have a cross platform (arm and atom) variation that kinda sorta runs maemo apps - does it have qt in it?00:25
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lcukand boots to a desktop? :D00:25
Stskeepsotoh, it will run hildon apps better than meego ever will ;)00:25
lcukdare i ask - have you changed the packaging format yet or is it still deb?00:26
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Stskeepsstill deb, naturally00:26
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* SpeedEvil wishes the joggler had halved, not doubled in price.00:28
nid0it did half in price in january!00:28
lcukStskeeps, is qt just a matter of compilation00:29
lcukwithin obs00:29
SpeedEvilnid0: yeah - I mean halved again00:30
Stskeepslcuk: pretty much00:31
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Stskeepsbut now i'm off to sleep00:31
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Jophish_n900is there a wiki page about running android on the n900?00:35
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TreibholzHmm, I think my n900 is broken. I used it the whole day and the battery still has more than 50%...00:37
Shapeshiftermh, btw I was wondering, hyperUI is pretty quick - will "normal" qt apps not written specifically for hyperUI also profit from increased speed or not?00:39
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ShapeshifterUI-wise speed (smoothness and that)00:39
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woglindehe javispedro00:40
javispedroevening woglinde00:40
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Stskeepsright, setting myself up for a beating:
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* javispedro tries to guess what he missed00:58
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MohammadAGjavispedro, PR1.200:58
woglindejavis pr1.2 in honkgong or something00:59
Treibholzand secure OverClocking to 2Ghz!00:59
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javispedroI wasn't exactly thinking that ...00:59
MohammadAGStskeeps, what's a distmaster? :)00:59
woglindeMohammadAG stskeeps is one00:59
StskeepsMohammadAG: my signature should help00:59
woglindefor mer00:59
MohammadAGwoglinde, really? :P01:00
MohammadAGStskeeps, well check it out01:00
woglindewasnt stskeeps not at sleep?01:00
woglinde23:31 < Stskeeps> but now i'm off to sleep01:00
javispedroyes, he's sleeping. this is his dream.01:00
Shapeshifter... so people still think deb packaging is pure awesomeness... I just failed to build a package because I had *one* space between my mail address and the date in debian/changelog, instead of *two* spaces....01:00
javispedrowe're all dream people! ohnoes01:00
woglindeShapeshifter where is the problem?01:01
Stskeepsor nightmare, depending on perspective01:01
woglindedpkg is telling you that the format is wrong01:01
Shapeshifterand of course it can't tell me that this was the mistake, it just says "badly formatted trailer line".01:01
javispedroShapeshifter: vim syntax highlighting helps there01:01
Shapeshifterwoglinde: well if it knows the format is wrong, then it does know why and where.01:01
Shapeshifterjavispedro: true01:01
javispedro(happened to me like, 100 times)01:01
woglindenot to me01:02
woglindeI copy the last entr01:02
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Shapeshifterwoglinde: you can't be defending this behavior though ;)01:02
Shapeshifterit's plain silly01:02
woglindebut now you knows01:02
woglindesend a patch01:02
javispedrowoglinde: even the years old esr book01:03
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javispedro.... has a rule: "whitespace shouldn't matter"01:03
lcukShapeshifter, actually adhering to a specific syntax - however silly to you - ensures that all tools built to that spec can continue to work01:03
woglindejavispedro haha python01:03
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* PR1_2 :-|01:03
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woglindetyboollt honkong?01:04
Shapeshifterlcuk: well that is true. it also implies that the tools are outdated and unmaintained01:04
woglindeShapeshifter lol01:04
lcukno, it means that changing them for petty things that so far 30,000++++ packages use the correct format for would be silly01:04
lcukand that you should just suck it and accept01:04
tybolltwoglinde: heh :)01:05
woglindeShapeshifter real master let the changelog generate erher from svn commits or git commits01:05
javispedronaaaaaaa. RPM! RPM! RPM!01:05
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lcukwoglinde, now that is an improvement :)01:05
* Shapeshifter disagrees and goes back to packaging archlinux packages.01:05
Shapeshifterafter I've ported curl to the n900.01:05
lcukcurl is here isnt it?01:06
lcukor is that libcurl?01:06
Shapeshifteronly libcurl and the python bindings01:06
lcukahh k01:06
* lcuk used libcurl01:06
lcukname rang a blel01:06
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javispedrohi Macer01:06
woglindelcuk sure learn about git-buildpackage or svn-buildpackage01:06
woglindereminds me of putting git-buildpackage into maemo01:07
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lcukwoglinde, mirroring changes for each commit into the changelog sounds useful01:08
* lcuk goes and has a read01:08
timeless_mbpanyone here familiar w/ sb2?01:08
* timeless_mbp can't remember how to set it up01:08
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the_lord done01:09
ShapeshifterMh, I'm following the wiki in how to port a debian package to maemo and apt-get source curl failed after downloading the package with 'Unpack command 'dpkg-source -x curl_7.20.1-1.dsc' failed. Check if the 'dpkg-dev' package is installed.' I then went on unpacking it manually and doing some changes, but of course it can't build, missing lots of things like such: 'dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libgnutls-dev stunnel ...01:09
Shapeshifter... libkrb5-dev libidn11-dev libdb-dev (>= 4.7) libldap2-dev quilt libssh2-1-dev (>= 1.2) libgcrypt11-dev'. So, I though I might try installing dpkg-dev but this will now uninstall build-essential and like 50 hildon- and other maemo-related packages01:09
the_lordis there any way to tell modest to store emails instead of querying to the server each time I access to it?01:09
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woglindeShapeshifter I am doing this with lots of packages01:10
woglindefirs you have to change compat stuff01:10
woglindefor fremantle you can use debhelper7 stuff from extras01:10
* Jaffa plugs mud, which can help with this stuff.01:10
woglindethere is a wiki page about01:10
lbtmulti-user dungeons?01:10
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woglindeotherwise you have to change compat and debhelper back to version 501:11
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:11
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Shapeshifterwoglinde: okay thanks I'll look into debhelper01:11
lcukJaffa, do you foresee still using mud to work on mer/cross platform? or is it specifically tailored around scratchboxisms?01:12
woglindebut there should be libcurl already01:12
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woglindehm mud?01:12
Shapeshifterwoglinde: yes but not curl, the command line tool01:13
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Shapeshifterwoglinde: well I can't find it01:13
Shapeshifterapt-cache search curl doesn't reveal it01:13
woglindehm fremantle or diablo?01:14
Shapeshifterwoglinde: fremantle01:14
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timeless_mbp$ sb2 -e01:14
timeless_mbpFATAL: kernel too old01:14
timeless_mbp /bin/bash: relocation error: /bin/bash: symbol strlen, version GLIBC_2.0 not defined in file with link time reference01:14
javispedroyou won't survive kernel too old01:15
javispedroit's a nightmare.01:15
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timeless_mbpLinux 2.6.16-xenU #1 SMP Mon May 28 03:41:49 SAST 2007 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux01:16
timeless_mbpwhy is that too old?01:16
timeless_mbpit's only 200701:16
timeless_mbpi was using linux in 2000!01:16
Jaffalcuk: mud-built packages are, theoretically, abstracted from Scratchbox/deb/RPM01:17
* javispedro 's server is still using 2.401:17
Jaffalcuk: and could help with lbt's dream of "quickly re-package this upstream library for MeeGo"01:17
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lcukyeah - so its your take on what the autobuilder and obs do?01:18
* Jaffa 's packaging of python-evolution, for example, says "here's a tarball URL, go to it"01:18
woglindeShapeshifter hm seems the maemo-maintainer cut the package out01:18
woglindedont know why01:18
javispedroJaffa: python-evo uses autoconf, or ... ?01:18
Jaffalcuk: Autobuilder is definitely complementary; but there's a lot of stuff whereby you can script the creation of the packaging specification *and don't need to version control them*01:18
javispedrowoglinde: space saving reasons.01:18
timeless_mbpjavispedro: so um01:18
Jaffajavispedro: Err, think it uses the `python' pattern.01:19
woglindecurl is sperate package01:19
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woglindedepening of course on libcurl01:19
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lcukjaffa, im only thinking from a migration POV - you have a slightly different view on it and obvious experience :)01:19
woglindetimeless 2.6.16 is ugly old01:20
javispedroJaffa: interesting, and mud handles creating the entire package automatically when the tarball uses
timeless_mbpwoglinde: it's a perfectly reasonable vintage!01:20
timeless_mbpi was even working at nokia at the time!01:20
Shapeshifterwoglinde: well I love curl, I thought someone with more experience might port it but it's not happening so I'm trying my luck01:20
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woglindeshapeshifter its ported01:20
SpeedEvilLinux version 2.4.17_mvl21-malta-mips_fp_le (root@rhl) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release/MontaVista)) #5 Áù 3ÔÂ 4 13:37:03 CST 2006 is my oldest system that's currently up01:20
Jaffajavispedro: Well, it's a *little* bit more than just a URL - but not much01:20
Shapeshifterwoglinde: where, how?01:21
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woglindebut with out the curl package01:21
timeless_mbpoh brother01:21
timeless_mbpmeego/bin/bash: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.25, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.25, stripped01:21
ShapeshifterI'm still talking about the command line tool01:21
woglindeask Aapo Makela why he cut out commandline tool01:21
timeless_mbpso apps are built against specific kernel versions?01:21
timeless_mbpwhat kind of insane platform is this?01:21
javispedrotimeless: when ABI breaks, yes01:21
woglindeShapeshifter on debian libcurl and curl packages are build from same src01:22
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timeless_mbpjavispedro: can one cross compile to a specific kernel?01:22
timeless_mbpi'm not moving01:22
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timeless_mbpat least, not in any near future01:22
lcukJaffa, that sounds like when david says "obs needs a .tar.gz and a .dsc file"01:22
lcukYo! Texrat01:22
javispedrotimeless: that's the "nightmare" part.01:22
Texratyo ho01:22
Shapeshifterwoglinde: and you think asking him will get me curl sooner to the n900 then just porting it myself?01:22
* javispedro 's server is using
javispedrowrong machine :)01:23
* lcuk server is using pr1.2 ;)01:23
woglindeShapeshifter I would like to see it in a sane way01:23
Texrathey, what about w00t'01:23
javispedrotimeless: if you can set up a vm with the exact same setup --- way easier.01:23
lcukw00t_ you mean01:23
Texratw00t's theory?  the more we mention "it", the more it's delayed01:23
lcukand whats he done this time01:23
woglindeShapeshifter wouldnt be good you compile it only localy for you01:23
timeless_mbpjavispedro: sorry, i don't have infinite resources01:24
timeless_mbpheck, i don't have any resources01:24
woglindehm I should give courses01:24
* w00t_ nods, sagely01:24
woglinde"writing good debian-packages"01:24
w00t_Texrat: it knows you wait it - and plays hard to get as a result01:24
Texratdamn the thing!01:24
Texratif that's how it's gonan be I don't want it, sooo...01:25
Shapeshifterwoglinde: well can't I just do it in a way autobuilder can build it and upload it to the queue?01:25
lcukw00t_, i fixed totally the git problem from last week01:25
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Shapeshifterwoglinde: that's what I was planning01:25
Texratpr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.2 pr1.201:25
lcukall the maemo optify boottime patches are nicely on git repo now01:25
woglindeShapeshifter nope01:25
TexratI just delayed it to next year01:25
* microlith hits Texrat with a stick01:25
woglindeShapeshifter as I said libcurl and curl comes from same source package01:25
* Texrat ouches01:25
w00t_lcuk: \o/01:25
woglindeyou would than have to libcurl packages in the repos01:26
w00t_lcuk: what repo? I might have a nose around sometime01:26
woglindenot good and not wanted01:26
Shapeshifterwoglinde: oohkay01:26
lcukw00t_, maemo-optify-boottime on gitorious01:26
woglindelcuk haha01:26
* timeless_mbp sighs01:26
Shapeshifterso basically they left out this ~111K wonderful piece of software because...01:27
timeless_mbpmy conversion moved from jul 23 to aug 1301:27
lcukwoglinde, ?01:27
lcuki broke git completely01:27
timeless_mbpso it did roughly 20 days in probably 20 hours01:27
lcukdriver error01:27
Texrattsg meeting tomorrow bitches01:27
woglindelcuk lol01:27
lcukif it was a car it would be wrapped around a tree01:27
woglindelcuk pointer to the patches?01:27
timeless_mbpTexrat: i think i'll be @ an osol ug instead :)01:27
lcukand the tree would fall over and knockdown someone elses farmhouse01:27
woglindelcuk no01:27
lcukwoglinde, on the repo01:28
woglindewhich repo?01:28
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Shapeshifterwoglinde: whoa... the internets... searching on google for 'Aapo Makela maemo' lists *this* chat we just had on 5th place! also, is this logging done with permission I wonder01:30
woglindeShapeshifter it is01:31
woglindelcuk clean up the rules file01:31
woglindewhy you need dh_perl?01:31
lcukwoglinde, leftovers, if you want to raise a bug so we can put things against and submit a patch it would be easier - im not commiting *any* mods without discussion no matter how trivial01:34
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woglindebetter depend on the tools using in the scripts01:34
* lcuk nods01:35
lcukits not harming things01:35
Jaffalcuk: The autobuilder just needs a .tar.gz and a .dsc file; but the .tar.gz need to contain a debian/ directory containing Makefiles with certain targets etc.01:35
woglindejaffa o.O01:36
lcukwoglinde, ill happily run over anything with you tho so if you have questions etc after looking fire away01:36
lcukbecause its something we obviously dont want problems with01:36
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woglindesorry now time for security analysis01:41
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* javispedro reads Sts's review thread.01:50
timeless_mbpjavispedro: so...01:50
timeless_mbpi'm screwed?01:50
* timeless_mbp sighs01:50
javispedrotimeless: seems like your problem might be easier than mine, but wrong person to ask then (I don't know what changed between those versions)01:51
timeless_mbpjavispedro: any idea how i'd figure out the changes?01:51
timeless_mbpgoogle for linux abi gives me freebsd linux emulation01:51
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javispedroyears ago there was this .note section in ELF with the ABI version01:52
javispedrobut I just check my binaries and it's not there.01:52
javispedroso, dunno.01:52
timeless_mbpsadly i don't have strace or gdb yet01:53
rm_youtimeless_mbp: whatcha trying to figure out?01:54
javispedroah, here it is. .note.ABI-tag01:54
timeless_mbprm_you: Stskeeps built me a meego tarball01:54
rm_youah, neat01:55
rm_youi guess01:55
timeless_mbpbut it's targetted to a 2.6.25 kernel01:55
timeless_mbpand i have 2.6.16 (?)01:55
timeless_mbpso nothing runs01:55
rm_youis that public-esque? or internal?01:55
timeless_mbpthe tarball url is in the logs for this channel, i slurped it from here :)01:55
timeless_mbpor there, however you want to think about it01:55
rm_youso, public-esque :P01:55
timeless_mbpbut … i want to be able to *use* it...01:56
rm_youi've yet to find an rpm distro that i consider "usable"01:57
rm_youmaybe meego will finally fix that? :/01:57
lcukgnite woglinde timeless_mbp rm_you rest of maemo etc01:58
rm_younite lcuk01:58
javispedrognite luck01:58
javispedrotimeless: without rebuilding it? you might need to binary patch it01:58
lcukjavispedro \o01:58
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Arkenoi_fedora seems quite usable for me. but it is desktop distro.01:58
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javispedrotimeless: and chances are it will fail to find some glibc function or the like01:59
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opdf2if the n900 says fully charged and I keep the charger plugged in...does using it use battery or the AC?02:00
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MohammadAG<opdf2> if the n900 says fully charged and I keep the charger plugged in...does using it use battery or the AC?02:04
MohammadAG<FauxFaux> AC.02:04
MohammadAGcheck before you say something ;)02:04
timeless_mbpjavispedro: i'm ok w/ rebuilding libc (barely)02:04
timeless_mbpso long as i don't have to rebuild the whole platform02:05
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timeless_mbpthe charger converts AC to DC, no? :)02:05
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rm_youit uses the battery but the use is minimal enough that it recharges almost immediately, IIRC?02:05
timeless_mbpbut the goal of the question was to ask "is it draining power from the wall or the battery"02:06
MohammadAGit uses the battery and keeps dropping02:06
MohammadAGtill it gets to some percentage, after which it kicks into charging mode again02:06
MohammadAG85% I think02:06
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FauxFauxYou sure?  I have batterygraph and the charger that charges so slowly that it sometimes doesn't charge at all on my desk at work.02:08
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timeless_mbpFauxFaux: are you trickle charging at 0.1 amp instead of service charging at 0.5 amps?02:09
FauxFauxI don't know!02:09
timeless_mbpdoes it say 'charging' or 'mass storage' or 'pc suite'?02:09
FauxFauxAssumably charging.02:09
timeless_mbpcharging is bad02:10
timeless_mbpit's a terrible translation02:10
timeless_mbpit's really "trickle charging"02:10
FauxFauxThe fast charger says "Charging" too.02:10
timeless_mbpyeah well02:11
timeless_mbpthere's a big difference between 1.2 amps and 0.1 amps!02:11
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FauxFauxIirc the slow charger is 320ma.02:11
timeless_mbpusb lets devices draw 100ma w/o providing a service02:12
timeless_mbpif they provide a service, they can draw up to 500ma02:12
rm_youtimeless_mbp: weird. never knew that02:12
FauxFauxBy "slow charger" I mean "the older-style hypodermic charger plugged into the provided convertor block".02:13
rm_youso by not putting my n900 in pc suite or something, it charges slower?02:13
rm_youi wish i'd known that a long time ago02:13
timeless_mbprm_you: the idea is that it's rude to steal power02:13
rm_youwhile trying to charge my device and failing :P02:13
FauxFauxI thought traditionally you got high power as soon as the driver bothered to load.  But, then, pc suite is asteaming pile of shit and I haven't even bothered to install it to find out how much it fails.02:14
timeless_mbp describes this stuff02:14
javispedrotimeless: na, version tag is on every binary, and your dynamic loader is rejecting that (either because it compares it with current kernel or because it has it hardcoded)02:14
timeless_mbpFauxFaux: pc suite is basically usb-networking02:14
timeless_mbpjavispedro: i can use perl to rewrite each binary02:14
timeless_mbpthat's not a big deal02:15
FauxFauxYet it doesn't work in so many ways.02:15
timeless_mbpFauxFaux: you don't need to install pc suite to be able to use pc suite mode02:15
javispedrotimeless: grab a elf module; you need to edit contents of a section02:15
timeless_mbpso you can use pc suite mode and get 500ma02:15
javispedro*elf parsing perl module02:15
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FauxFauxWell, I have no idea where I put my usb cable and have wireless next to both of my machines so I don't really care.02:16
javispedro'.note.ABI-tag' will end with three uint32s: 2, 6, 25. you can guess what they're for :)02:16
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javispedrotimeless: btw, note that even if you don't select a service in the n900, when plugged in via usb, it will act as a usb mass storage device (with no disks iirc) and grab 500mA.02:20
timeless_mbpjavispedro: depends on the version of the maemo package :)02:20
timeless_mbpbut yeah, some do that :)02:20
* javispedro wonders what kind of glorified beagle board you have ;)02:21
timeless_mbpjavispedro: the older system software most definitely didn't do that02:21
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timeless_mbpi don't remember if we changed it in time for 1.0 or if we changed it later02:21
javispedroah, I didn't bother to check :P02:22
javispedropretty ironic if "charge only" mode would charge more slowly =)02:22
timeless_mbpit really did originally02:22
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timeless_mbpand unintentional irony is something we're pretty good at02:23
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* timeless_mbp wonders why nokia is paying for 'nokia comes with music' ads for the finnish tv market02:23
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woglindetimeless lol02:25
njsf_SpeedEvil: last I checked Bjork was Icelandic not Finnish02:28
SpeedEvilHence the oops.02:29
SpeedEvilHow could I have forgotten Lordi.02:29
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SpeedEvilOh! Darude++02:30
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MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, same here02:46
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rm_youDarude is finnish? >_>02:50
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javispedrolol at "Whenever you want information on the 'net, don't ask a question; just post a wrong answer.", how true.02:52
SpeedEvilSo says wikipedia.02:52
* javispedro goes troll a bit more on tmo02:52
SpeedEvilAnd wikipedia never lies.02:52
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, only apple says that02:58
MohammadAGthey quoted a wrong wikipedia statement when they sued Nokia XD02:58
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: the bq27200 - there is no better way of working out the sampling time than trying to watch for changes, and doing the pll thing?03:03
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: no03:05
DocScrutinizeranyway you're not really concerned about bq27x00 internal register update interval03:06
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DocScrutinizeriirc there are even several different intervals for different data/registers03:06
lcukhello svanheulen03:06
svanheulenI'm having problems with wlancond crashing on my n900 almost every other time I open the internet connections. Anyone else have that problem?03:07
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: after all there's not really an issue like aliasing between the polling period you read out bq27x00 and the periods the various registers update03:08
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I'm trying to correlate power usage over the previous interval03:08
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: So the spread of +-2.56 seconds is annoying03:08
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SpeedEvilsvanheulen: not seen that03:09
DocScrutinizerhmm, not sure if I get your point. Anyway just do massive obersampling, like once / second03:09
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: well - yes - but for the whole powersaving thing.03:09
SpeedEvilI guess PLL it is03:09
DocScrutinizernah, readout of bq isn't a heavy task03:09
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I'm not sure pll will pan out03:10
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: it's not heavy - but it is an extra tick03:11
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summeli want to shoot the nokia devs >_>03:12
lcuk<-< please don't03:12
rm_youthat would be unfortunate03:13
rm_youalso, didn't you go to bed lcuk? :P\03:13
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you'll need to probe at least 2 times shortly before and after an assumed event (let's call it event when bq updates). So you have at least 2 readouts per period, and still occasionally miss. If you do a fixed period sampling with freq(sample) = freq(event) * 2.2 then you also for sure catch each value03:13
SpeedEvilI was meaning something very minimal. every 10th tick, do an extra sample .5s after your nominal one. If this changes from your nominal sample, that means you're close to teh period03:13
lcukbed desk code editor - whats the difference03:13
summelwell thats the SECOND sdhc card destroyed by n n90003:13
summel2 different sdhc cards 2 different n900s.. both cards unuseable now -_-03:14
javispedrosvanheulen: no, but wlancond is open, btw.03:14
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teilzeitstudentDoes anyone know how maemo handles the wear and tear issue of flash drives? I.e. does adding a new url to the browser make the disk die faster?03:14
SpeedEvilSummel: are you doing anything wired?03:14
summelalso i cant delete an pdf file from the memory... i can delete every other file!03:14
SpeedEvilSummel: wierd03:14
summelSpeedEvil: i wanted to download an ogv video and my freind wanted to make a backup...03:14
SpeedEvilteilzeitstudent: the wear is essentially unimportant03:14
SpeedEvilSummel: they won't format on other devices?03:15
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: if you're interested in every 10th event only, I don't see the problem if every 30th probe gets you the 11th event instead of the 10th03:15
SpeedEvilSummel: are these cards purchased through the primary channels, or on ebay?03:15
summelSpeedEvil: we formated his card yesterday... after it didnt work on the n900 anymore and it got REALLY hot oO03:15
summelSpeedEvil: amazon03:15
summelsandisk cards03:15
summelnothing scary :P03:16
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I mean - you use that every 10th event to lock the PLL - as the frequecy does not vary03:16
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you add a 10% jitter to your data, but so what?03:16
summeland the sdk sucks also :o03:16
SpeedEvilSummel: amazon themselves - or one of the amazon retailers?03:16
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DocScrutinizerhow smart03:16
summelamazon themselves03:16
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summeli dont like the retailers03:16
summelwe already sent the first card back03:16
summelguess i have send mine back also03:16
summelbut i dont think its the cards faut03:17
summelbecause the one in my netbook works fine03:17
DocScrutinizeranyway, the jitter still is the only problem you get when not syncing03:17
summeleven while it is under heavier use...03:17
lcuksummel, are you by chance situated near CERN?03:17
SpeedEvilthere are shit cards out there in the market that are unreliable.03:17
summellcuk: no :D03:17
teilzeitstudentSpeedEvil, please define "unimportant" :P  i dont feel like buying a new device just cuz i used the browser too often, some media player updated its db a lot or w/e03:17
summelSpeedEvil: yes, but i wouldnt say this about sandisk :o03:17
lcuksummel, "the one in your netbook"03:18
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SpeedEvilteilzeitstudent: The device is designed so that that's not an issue at all.03:18
lcukis that the one thats not working on the 90003:18
summellcuk: no we ordered 3 cards... 1 for my netbook and 2 for our 2 n900s03:18
SpeedEvilSummel: the makers of dodgy cards do not print 'crapco' on it.03:18
lcukteilzeitstudent, i imagine you could probably make the flash wear out by saving bookmarks03:18
summelthe 2 from the n900s stoped working yesterday/now03:18
SpeedEvilSummel: however - for 2 to die is concerning.03:18
lcukbut it will either take you a very very long time03:18
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lcukor you can save links at 0.0000001s or something03:19
summelSpeedEvil: i dont think amazon sells fake sandisk cards :o03:19
SpeedEvilSummel: probably not.03:19
lcukok summel03:19
lcukit could be down to what sort of data you are putting on them and format etc03:19
summelalso why cant i compile a qt4 application for my phone? i dont want to use it only in the sdk :(03:19
lcukare they still fat03:19
summel*shoots some random developer*03:19
* lcuk ducks03:20
javispedro~shoot summel03:20
* infobot shoots summel in the ear with a cork gun!03:20
SpeedEvilSummel: nobody has setup a build environment on the phone. Of course you can.03:20
summellcuk: my freind did a backup (whioch worked fine for me) and i just anted do woanload a video oO03:20
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (2 to die) not really, considering they were from same batch03:20
lcukok i put videos on and off all the time03:20
lcukon internal at least03:20
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SpeedEvil DocScrutinizer: yes. I mean - it's concerning if they are legit functioning cards.03:20
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lcukdid you disconnect whilst copying or something?03:20
summelSpeedEvil: but i want to buoild the app in the sdk and use it NOW on my phone and not wait for pr1.2 -_-03:20
summelif it will ever arrive...03:20
SpeedEvilSummel: oh03:21
lcukit will03:21
teilzeitstudentSpeedEvil, care to elaborate on that? i.e. are the writes bufferd in ram for XY mb? how is a crash handled then? or are the writes flushed immediatly?03:21
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summelcompiling the app itself on the n900 would probably take days :o03:21
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lcuk:) i used to compile everything of mine on the n81003:21
summellcuk: no because the qt in the sdk is newer :(03:21
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: after bunnie's blog I'm not astonished by anything03:21
summelso i get symbol lookup errors when running the app on the device :(03:21
SpeedEvilteilzeitstudent: Broadly - ubifs does wear leveling internally - this is the filesystem on /03:21
teilzeitstudentlcuk, the bookmarks are not really my concern.. the media players i use are mostly. if they store their metadata db on disk and rescan everytime i change a file...03:21
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teilzeitstudentSpeedEvil, alright I'll take a look at ubifs thanks03:22
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lcukteilzeitstudent, if the device could not cope with that sort of activity it would not have been put onto it03:22
SpeedEvilalso is relevant03:22
javispedroaren't you worrying too hard?03:22
lcukwe have a 5mpixel camera that writes tonnes, chillax03:22
SpeedEvilteilzeitstudent: in general - you can write to a particular block on a SD card a few hundred thousand times without issues03:23
summelSpeedEvil: they are vfat formatted because i were told that the n900 only supports vfat on external memory because vfat is "hardcoded" in the mount scripts.... one more reason to shoot the devs :P03:23
SpeedEvilteilzeitstudent: The wear leveling is over a block of ~1000 'real' blocks on the disk03:23
summeland why cant i delte the one pdf file?03:23
SpeedEvilSummel: what shows in syslog when you do the cards03:23
SpeedEvilSummel: what happens when you try as root?03:24
lcuksummel, permissions?03:24
summelif i tap on "delete" i see every folder/file but not that one pdf oO03:24
summelSpeedEvil: a lot of i/o errors03:24
SpeedEvilI've never looked at the file manager03:24
lcukwhich pdf is it03:24
MohammadAGfsck.vfat it03:24
summellcuk: so when i save an pdf file i recieved in a mail from the mail applkication i dont have the permission to delete it later?03:24
MohammadAGerr, the partition03:24
lcuksummel, i was asking what it was03:24
lcukyou just told me03:25
summellcuk: oh and btw there are no permissionson vfat!03:25
lcuksummel, this one file is on the memory card you already said is busted?03:26
lcuki thought it was on internal memory?03:26
DocScrutinizersummel: when fs corrupted, it's remount ro03:26
summellcuk: i tried to delete it before that03:26
summelit never shows up on the delte window03:26
summeli can open it and read and stuff :/03:26
lcukso the filesystem got corrupted03:26
teilzeitstudentlcuk, well... that is asuming that thecorporation behind the device is not only after my money and I have been burned before :<03:26
SpeedEvilSummel: dumping the contents of /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc1/mmc1:000103:26
SpeedEvilSummel: all the files - and posting them on a 'corrupt cards' thread on tmo may be of slight use03:27
lcukteilzeitstudent, of course03:27
lcukim sure the topic has been gone over many times on talk.maemo.org03:27
DocScrutinizerwhat's in dmesg?03:27
SpeedEvilSummel: these are the card ID info03:27
lcukand there are some better quoted figures if you dont want to take our word for it03:27
SpeedEvilSummel - see that - with the above ids03:28
summeli could delete BOTH files from the shell btw03:28
summelas user03:29
summelnot root03:29
summeland now everything works again03:29
* summel pulls out his gun again >_>03:29
DocScrutinizeryou're saying root failed on deleting them?03:29
summelwhen i deleted the part of the video from the filemanager it always reaeared when restarting the filemanager03:29
summelthe filemanager03:30
javispedrothe part of the video03:30
summeldidnt show the pdf in the delte window03:30
summeland when i deleted the part of the video that got downloaded it reappeared03:30
summelbut i still want to download the video :o03:30
summelalso the adblock+ plugin does not work -_-03:30
summelif i follow the instructions for opening the window where i can select the subscriptions i always get a file not found -_-03:31
teilzeitstudentlcuk, no offence intended, but if I took every word spoken on irc as a fact... xD   im just curious about the kernel/userland tools used. i touched that topic briefly when building a gentoo-on-usb-drive thingy, but what I found still left a lot of unneeded writes to disk with every-day activity03:31
lcukteilzeitstudent, none taken, you asked for some advice we offered and even gave you a pointer to where you can find more info03:32
lcukive been hammering my system recently almost as much a beating as my 810 got03:33
lcukand its coped admirably03:33
DocScrutinizerteilzeitstudent: uSD cards have been put to a fulltime-stresstest by c't (german mag) - they couldn't provoke any block burnouts in months(!!) of hammering the devices under test03:33
DocScrutinizerand that's been years ago03:34
DocScrutinizercards probably goit better since03:34
SpeedEvilI saw some tests also on the olpc mailing list03:35
summelnite -_-03:35
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teilzeitstudentDocScrutinizer, got a link or... "heft nummer"? :p03:37
DocScrutinizersorry, not off top of my head03:38
DocScrutinizerhas to be some 2..4years ago03:38
SpeedEvil aha!03:38
SpeedEvilSee that03:38
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DocScrutinizermaybe even longer03:39
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DocScrutinizerteilzeitstudent: maybe this one. See "Flash-Haltbarkeit" tag03:45
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DocScrutinizeror this
narcissus_Are there any extremely kind people here that could build the rtl8187 kernel module for os2007he for me? I've been trying to do it myself for a Very long time now.03:49
teilzeitstudentdockane, sec... I'll check it03:51
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izzoxhello all03:52
DocScrutinizerthat should suffice to kickstart your investigations ;-)03:52
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teilzeitstudentthough, seeing that the partition used by the /home directory is ext3.. says "data=writeback", but still does journaling03:54
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javispedrodata=writeback doesn't disable journaling for metadata03:56
teilzeitstudenthmm, probably time to get some sd card to put the swap onto.. and the home dir with all those configuration files. and often chaninging playlists.03:56
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javispedrothe home dir is on the 32 emmc, with hardware wear leveling.03:57
Termanagood morning03:57
javispedro*32 GiB.03:57
teilzeitstudentjavispedro, the MyDocs stuff is not my concern.. i have control over what is written there. the problem is /home/user with all those config files, databases etc.03:58
javispedroI didn't say anything about MyDocs.03:58
javispedrothe home dir is on a 2 GiB partition on the 32 GiB eMMC.03:58
javispedrowear leveling is performed over the entire 32 GiB.03:58
teilzeitstudentyea.. but assuming ubifs knows what it is doing, i can disregard the root, put the /home/ on some sd card, write the hell out of it and then just change the sd card every know and then04:00
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teilzeitstudentand use the device for a couple of years04:00
* DocScrutinizer sighs04:00
javispedrojust count how many times a 100 KiB file would need to be written to fill a 32 GiB 1000 times at least.04:01
SpeedEviljavispedro: it's not quite that simple - the wear leveling is not across the whole device typoically04:02
DocScrutinizerflash ist heutzutage 'unkaputtbar'04:02
teilzeitstudentthe bash history is stored between reboots -> eveytime i use the shell some file is written there. same for the browser. the media player stores its database somewhere. i do add/remove media files a lot. it all adds up.04:02
DocScrutinizerso what?04:02
SpeedEvil(though it's not a concern)04:02
SpeedEvilteilzeitstudent: It adds up to an _INSIGNIFICANT_ degree04:02
SpeedEvilteilzeitstudent: normal filesystem operations, are not a real concern in terms of longevity04:03
DocScrutinizerprobably need a real to even hold the ratio04:03
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flacohi all... anyone can helpme with scratchbox2 pls?04:04
teilzeitstudentSpeedEvil, I had an mp3 player with an actual hard drive. I changed playlists, mp3s almost every day and it lastet for years. I had some flash player and after a year the disk was unusable.04:04
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teilzeitstudentSpeedEvil, the internal, non-removable one~04:05
DocScrutinizertoo bad, maybe it had no wear leveling, or wrote back the position in your current song 10 times a second, or was simply a lemon04:06
SpeedEvilteilzeitstudent: One device does not statistics make.04:06
teilzeitstudentIt was a SonyEriccson... so probably all of the above :p04:06
SpeedEvilI haven't seen anyone saying they they've had errors on teh internal MMC04:06
javispedroI have, but it was too early for the cause to be wearing04:07
DocScrutinizerteilzeitstudent: please, this has been debated ad nauseum all over the internets. Common sense is, flash will live longer than you do, most probably. There's no usage pattern where you need to be concerned about wear04:07
Ken-Youngteilzeitstudent, If you're really worried about this, why not try to configure your device so that most of the writes occur on the removable microSD - in the unlikely event it wears out, you can cheaply replace it?04:08
javispedrothere's no _interactive_ usage pattern04:08
DocScrutinizerthough even server SSDs have a 5 year warranty today04:09
DocScrutinizerand that's surely non-interactive use04:09
teilzeitstudentand surely hardware designed for server use.04:10
javispedrobut afaiu they will have much longer lifespans than cheap emmcs04:10
SpeedEvilI suspect /syus/class/ubi/ will tell you about the failed blocks of the internal onenand04:10
DocScrutinizerteilzeitstudent: nope, the flash chips are the very same, as are the wear leveling algos mostly04:10
DocScrutinizerwho cares about oneNAND. It's been pointed at several times $home is on eMMC04:11
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SpeedEvilonenand you get hard numbers04:12
SpeedEvilas to failed blocks04:12
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SpeedEvilmmc hides04:12
DocScrutinizerntil capacity goes down04:12
SpeedEvilcapacity can't go down in a mmc04:12
SpeedEvilas it emulates a block device04:13
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DocScrutinizerdon't you think it will eventually start to report bad blocks, when it runs out of spare?04:14
DocScrutinizeror simply report lower usable capacity?04:15
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javispedroI doubt it would report lower usable capacity, it would break havoc at filesystem04:15
DocScrutinizerk, depends on controller04:15
javispedroand probably cause much more damage than a single bad block04:15
SpeedEvilIt can't report lower capacity without breaking the block device model04:16
SpeedEvilanyway - /sys/class/ubi/ubi0/bad_peb_count - says how many bad blocks your onenand has.04:16
DocScrutinizerhmm, time for a nap. Can't follow anymore04:16
SpeedEvilI have one04:16
javispedrohah! I have zero.04:17
DocScrutinizera few are normal even off fab04:17
DocScrutinizerthat's why NAND is a PITA04:17
* SpeedEvil contemplates pita, and goes to look up recipies.04:18
teilzeitstudentAlso nota that noone suggests putting a swap partition on a flash disk :p04:18
javispedroswap partition! with swappiness set to an unreasonably high value!04:19
javispedroand yet someone though it was OK.04:19
javispedroso, stop worrying, unless your plan is to put gazillions of gigabytes through it.04:19
teilzeitstudentOr having 5 browser windows open, all with javascript running, the media player, a console and, for the fun of it, some random sudoku app04:20
javispedrothe overclocked CPU will break before the internal flash does :P04:20
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: stop me if I'm wrong04:21
teilzeitstudentjavispedro, probably :P04:21
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: headphone splitter, if you use twice the same headphone, so 2x the same impedance in parallel, so impedance cut in 2, so current required doubled, right?04:21
SpeedEvilSomeone who - if they got it wrong - would cost nokia several million dollars.04:21
SpeedEvilThis has been carefully researched.04:21
* crashanddie 's electronics are so rusty it's shameful04:21
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: exactly!04:22
teilzeitstudentSpeedEvil, or they though they would make more money by selling crappy devices than settling outside of court.04:22
SpeedEvilwarranty returns cost lost of money04:23
SpeedEvillots, even04:23
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SpeedEvilA returned device to swap the mainboard is _well_ into negative profit.04:23
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: though e.g on N900 you got an internal impedance of iirc 32Ohm, so the current will rise a bit from the amp, but same time voltage and thus current thru each of the headphones goes down04:24
SpeedEvilBefore even getting to the consequent damage to reputation, and the likelyhood of the person buying again04:24
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: so battery impact is minimal, you just get lower volume04:24
teilzeitstudentWhich keeps factory at higher "percentage of output vs. standing costs", which looks good in the budget review which keeps investors happy which keeps interest rates low which keeps everything nice.04:25
teilzeitstudentNot to mention the "a well, somethings wrong with that gadget but the ads for the new version look nice". Which keeps Apple profitable :p04:25
* DocScrutinizer thinks, teilzeitstudent is all OC-fools' antimater04:28
javispedronokia has ads?04:29
DocScrutinizerhope he's solid enough to anihilate all of them - though I doubt as those are legion04:29
teilzeitstudentasuming that "antimater" is the opposite to "animator" (e.g. those guys in a bear suite telling you to buy stuff), i still have no idea what "OC-fools" means04:29
javispedroDocScrutinizer: no way. Though I hope that if a sizable group of them annihilate the resulting explosion wreaks havoc in TMO.04:29
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DocScrutinizer"I installed 2GHz-kernel and eMMC-saver-tweak. It blasted away my home" X-P04:33
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javispedroI have that eMMC saver tweak. its called swap over network block device =)04:34
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ShadowJKnbd :)04:36
javispedroand it's awfully slow (no wonder, maybe reducing swappiness...)04:37
crashanddieNFS? Who needs NFS, real-time rsync04:37
crashanddieNow there's some swap!04:37
DocScrutinizerhmm you need to buffer it in RAM, or if that is used, then in swap :-P04:38
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crashanddieimport pexpect; swap = pexpect.spawn('rsync'); swap.write(data)04:38
DocScrutinizerswap out the swap buffers04:38
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javispedroreal-time rsync over ssh to a machine with home mounted via webdav/fuse on AU !04:39
* javispedro wonders how long until someone says "swap over tcp/ip over carrier pigeons"04:39
DocScrutinizerbut only with 3GHz OC04:39
DocScrutinizerotherwise gets unbearably slow04:40
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: got the RFC?04:40
javispedroit's a google search away I hope.04:40
javispedroit was :)04:41
crashanddie~rfc tcp pigeon04:41
javispedroinfobot also uses carrier pigeons04:41
* infobot starts crying and hides from crashanddie in the darkest corner of the room. :(04:41
javispedro~google infobot04:41
crashanddieis infobot particularly slow today?04:42
javispedroI don't know why, but the idea of a ip over carrier pigeons Denial of Service attack just crossed my mind04:42
javispedro*cue scene from The Birds*04:42
DocScrutinizer~google doesn't work04:43
javispedro~slashdot apple04:43
infobotSlashdot Headlines (7 of 15): Apple Just Says Yes To iPhone Smoking Game ;; The 4G iPhone's Finder Reportedly Located ;; Terry Childs Found Guilty ;; Rocket Racing League Showcases New X-Racers ;; Ogg Format Accusations Refuted ;; Supreme Court To Consider First Sale of Imports ;; Senators Tell Facebook To Quit Sharing Users' Info.04:43
acidjazz~prostitutes san francisco04:44
acidjazz~sudo rm -rf /04:44
DocScrutinizer~ubuntu acidjazz04:45
* infobot lovingly explains to acidjazz in a way that causes acidjazz to weep with gratitude that acidjazz must read the fine, friendly manual04:45
crashanddie~perv DocScrutinizer04:45
DocScrutinizer~redhat crashanddie04:45
crashanddie~windows DocScrutinizer04:46
* infobot installs Windows ME on DocScrutinizer's PC.04:46
crashanddie~osx DocScrutinizer04:46
DocScrutinizer~gentoo crashanddie04:46
* infobot recompiles crashanddie again04:46
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crashanddie[11:46] *infobot* help mac [11:46] <infobot> no help on mac.04:47
* javispedro plans to buy a gazillion core workstation just to be able to use gentoo04:47
crashanddieGentoo doesn't need a lot of computing power04:47
crashanddieit just requires a lot of patience04:48
javispedroyou CAN'T have enough patience04:48
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crashanddieof course you can04:48
crashanddieyou're a man04:48
javispedrospecially by the third time the OOo build fails for some reason, like ENOSPC04:48
crashanddiedude, you just take the binaries for ooo04:49
javispedrobaaah, where's the leetness on that.04:49
crashanddieand no, having -O6 doesn't make sense04:49
lcukof course, because -O5 is better on ARMEL04:49
crashanddiejavispedro: Gentoo isn't about leetness, and if you think using a computer in any kind of way, form or fashion makes you leet, you need to go back to the hackademy04:50
* javispedro is not talking seriously :)04:50
crashanddieneither am i :004:50
crashanddiebtw, everytime i type :0, actually i mean :)04:50
crashanddieit's just that my shift key fails04:51
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acidjazz^- penis in mouth04:53
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crashanddieacidjazz: there, did your mother never tell you not to talk with your mouth full?04:55
DocScrutinizerwas waiting how long it takes04:55
crashanddieoh come on, that one was easy :D04:55
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acidjazzhow did you guys do that?04:56
acidjazzPM chanserv?04:56
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o acidjazz04:56
crashanddielike so04:56
acidjazzhow are you sending the command04:56
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acidjazzdoes it hide that you sent it?04:57
crashanddieI send it directly to the server04:57
javispedrosomeday, when doing that, the opped person will decide to use the kickall command -- fun ensues.04:57
crashanddie /cs command #channel args04:57
javispedrohilarity, that too.04:57
acidjazzah i see04:57
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acidjazzalot diff than normal irc04:57
acidjazzactually javispedro a mass deop is wiser04:57
acidjazzyou can only kick one person at a time04:57
acidjazzyou can deop 4 at a time04:57
javispedrona, there's a kickall service around04:58
crashanddieacidjazz: you can't deop ChanServ04:58
javispedroand deopping will do nothing since they will get back op via CS.04:58
javispedrobut kicking 506 mortals -- fun.04:58
crashanddieacidjazz: and even without being in the channel or without having @, we can still issue commands04:58
crashanddiewe can even have ChanServ leave the channel, and still be able to quiet people through chanserv04:58
crashanddieor op/kick, whatever04:59
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crashanddiechanserv doesn't need to be in the channel to act04:59
acidjazzlil more power than an eggdrop04:59
crashanddieyeah, quite04:59
acidjazzyea like ppl w/ O:linse04:59
crashanddieircd se7en  is pretty nice tbh04:59
crashanddiewe've come a long way since the time of undernet and X05:00
acidjazzthis is charybdis?05:00
crashanddieacidjazz: no, that's a myth :P05:00
crashanddiegreek myth, even :D05:00
crashanddieoh, indeed, se7en is a fork of charybdis05:01
crashanddieor branch05:01
acidjazzircd-seven-1.0.1(20100130-d3139a423e1f, Charybdis 3.2-dev)05:01
acidjazzive only messed w/ hybrid05:02
acidjazzand this is like 10 years ago05:02
acidjazzi wrote an irc client back in the day05:02
crashanddie"freenode's next generation ircd project, ircd-seven, is a branch of the charybdis ircd, with changes specific to freenode's needs. It has been designed to replace the legacy hyperion. The network was migrated to ircd-seven at the end of January, 2010."05:02
crashanddieand that migration was seriously powerful, too :P05:03
infobotcrashanddie meant: and that migration was seriously painful, too :P05:03
acidjazzhaha that is pretty cool05:04
acidjazzit does the regex05:04
acidjazzs/regex/valley of boners/05:04
infobotacidjazz meant: it does the valley of boners05:04
acidjazzthat i do like05:04
acidjazzmy irc client had some fun stuff it did back in the day05:05
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acidjazzlike ppls clients would auto unban05:05
acidjazzif their 'friend' was banned05:05
acidjazzor bots would05:05
acidjazzbut there were tricks to breaking the ban match05:05
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acidjazzlike +b *!*@cr?s?a?d?i?.com05:05
acidjazzscrewban if i recall correctly05:06
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crashanddieacidjazz: /msg cs help recover05:07
crashanddie /msg chanserv help recover05:07
acidjazzyea im sure its alot more secure tehse days05:07
acidjazzthe major way that wasnt fixed for years woudl be a server collision takeover05:08
acidjazzyou ping flood an irc server on teh network until it jupes from teh network05:08
acidjazzthen get on it w/ bots w/ the exact same names as all the ops05:08
acidjazz+ a couple more to take it over05:08
DocScrutinizerwe got registered channels nowadays. You can't takeover them05:08
acidjazzthen when they combine any duplicate names are kicked from teh server05:08
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acidjazzboth are disconnected05:08
acidjazzthe channels left w/ the other two05:08
acidjazzyea im talkign uhh 14 years ago i think05:09
crashanddieacidjazz: nickname are protected, one account can have multiple nicknames, etc05:09
javispedroalso, wouldn't nickserv prevent that?05:09
javispedroI see.05:09
acidjazzthere was no nickserv05:09
acidjazzno chanserv05:09
acidjazzno serv of anything05:09
acidjazzno registrations05:09
crashanddieyeah, just raw text05:09
acidjazzthats all new fancy stuff05:09
crashanddiemultiplayer notepad05:09
javispedroah, Sts failed the test!05:10
javispedro1.8 out of 5 points05:10
acidjazzthere was a bug where you could send server commands via putting special chars in a channel key05:10
crashanddieacidjazz: there's one hack that still works05:10
crashanddieacidjazz: the router reboot05:10
acidjazzso you could /join #randomk, sent #random +k KEY_CHAR_/mode +o bob #channeltohack05:10
acidjazzthen bob woudl get +o'ed in the channel by the irc server05:10 sets mode +o bob05:11
acidjazzthat was _hilariosu_05:11
acidjazzchaos ensued before that was fixedf05:11
javispedroyet another us vs them war waiting to happen...05:13
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crashanddieok, out for lunch05:17
crashanddiecompany is paying for a $100 steak05:17
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DocScrutinizerhmm, let's see if maybe xchat behaves with a different wlan-energy setting05:24
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DocScrutinizerseems not05:25
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Ikarus[N900]sillty question, but anyone have a .deb with the fix for bug 6009 applied ?05:30
povbotBug "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications05:30
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luke-jropinions on $45 up-front + $30/mo after that for unlimited talk (only)?05:32
luke-jrcan I get any better in the US?05:32
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DocScrutinizeraah, and I thought you're selling .deb fixed keymap files for 45 bucks ;-P05:33
Ikarus[N900]appaerently libvte itself needs patching though05:36
Ikarus[N900]which is a little hard without the sdk handy05:36
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* DocScrutinizer kills a moth05:43
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crashanddieGuest2729: nice nick, termana06:43
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Guest2729ahh shit06:48
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Termanaautoreconnect and then nickserv renames me after 20 seconds :P06:49
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crashanddieThere's no fireworks in Australia !!!!!!!!!!!07:19
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GAN900Man, silvermountain should serious just fsck off07:26
GAN900Reality fails to affect his sense of how things are.07:26
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crashanddiePeople are entitled to their own opinions, and people are even entitled to their opinion about specific facts.07:30
crashanddieWhat you're not entitled to is your own facts.07:30
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GAN900He continually paints a picture of the extremity of his ignorance.07:33
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TermanaGAN900: You talking about Stskeep's thread? :P07:40
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* RST38h moos at the new day07:51
RST38hHello, General, crash, other life forms07:52
GAN900Termana, yeah.07:52
GAN900Hey, RST38h.07:52
TermanaJust posted my own opinion in the thread07:53
Termanahello RST38h07:53
RST38hhello Termana07:53
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RST38hwhat thread? should I haunt it?07:54
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TermanaI can just see the flame war about to unfold07:59
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RST38hWell, for once, the silver* guy is making *some* sense08:03
RST38hHe obviously expects too much from Sts though08:03
crashanddieyo RST38h08:03
RST38hIf I remember correctly, the original plan was for Sts to somehow organize a mechanism for backporting some of the Maemo5 fixes back into Diablo and releasing those updates semi-officially08:05
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RST38hThis has never materialized, at least not from Nokia.08:05
Stskeepseh, no :P08:05
crashanddieAnd is seemingly to big of a task to be handled singlehandedly08:06
TermanaStskeeps: good morning08:06
RST38hWell, *whaetever* Nokia-cooperation task you take, it cannot be handled without Nokia's involvement08:06
crashanddieTermana: where are you located mate?08:06
RST38hdistmaster or no distmaster08:06
RST38hEHLO Sts08:06
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GAN900RST38h, smells like revisionism. :P08:09
GAN900Stskeeps, ok, my rambling non-flame input is up.08:09
Termanacrashanddie: South Australia08:09
Stskeepsi'll read the thread through when i've had coffee :P08:10
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RST38hGAN: Well, I may be in error. Anyways, I guess Sts should have provided some list of his duties, to prevent people from making stuff up08:11
crashanddieHe owes nothing to the mortals of the community08:12
crashanddieShould he tweet when he goes on a cigarette or poop break too?08:12
crashanddieThe list of his duties is included in the job description that he agreed to when signing up for the job08:12
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, clearly.08:12
RST38hThen he should not have started the thread :)08:13
crashanddieAnd that list doesn't include "Will report and reveal all his actions on a daily basis for the scrutiny of the community"08:13
crashanddieHe tries to be open, tries to be honest with the community, and what does he get for it? Shit in the face, as usual08:13
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GeneralAntillesWell, we all get shit in the face08:13
GeneralAntillesThat's how Talk works.08:13
RST38hcrash: Happens all the time, especially lately08:13
GeneralAntillesOr what rock have you been under. :P08:13
crashanddieHow the fuck does anyone dare post a post saying his "grade" is 1.8 out of 508:14
RST38hcrash: But as long as he has started that thread, starting it with that list is a good way to avoid shit being thrown from random unexpected directions08:14
Stskeepscrashanddie: i don't mind, at least it gives me something to argue with08:14
* Stskeeps is not brought down by the thread and sees it as an opportunity to do a better job.08:15
crashanddiePerformance reviews are highly confidential, only done by the immediate boss, and the results only disclosed very narrowly. Not something to be done in public. wankermountain is way out of line08:15
RST38hcrash: that's FORMAL perf reviews08:15
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* GeneralAntilles thinks the shit in the face is probably good for character growth. :P08:15
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, his name is silvermountain.08:15
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, are you not familiar with his posting history?08:15
crashanddieand what do you think 99% of readers will take away from it?08:15
crashanddieThey will read "Stskeeps doesn't do his job" and leave the thread08:16
* RST38h goes to check silver*'s posting history, out of morbid curiosity08:16
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I very much am08:16
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I'm writing a conversation search tool08:17
RST38h"Lol, thanks. I am now also 'The Shitt King' :)" - that is his first post found by the tmo =)08:18
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Termana#agreed silvermountain is The Shitt King08:19
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Termanaoh, no meeting bot? :P08:19
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crashanddieStskeeps: nice work08:39
Stskeepsmm, thanks08:39
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crashanddieOutlook search algorithm for encrypted mailboxes: "Decrypt email, search, encrypt, rinse and repeat"08:44
crashanddieI'm looking for a 4 letter word in a 2gig mailbox :p08:45
crashanddie(outlook web access, that is)08:45
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crashanddieabe3k: fail08:46
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DocScrutinizercig in the face - morning08:46
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crashanddiemorning DocScrutinizer08:47
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crashanddiem2cm2c: changed nicknames and joined again?08:50
m2cm2ccrashanddie, yeah I was logged with my ubuntu account :D08:50
* DocScrutinizer considers a irc client with a small top window holding the last join/quit msgs08:51
m2cm2cguys, I was wondering if there is any way of making python open up a dialog without it blurring out whats behind that dialog08:52
m2cm2cunder maemo08:52
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m2cm2chilldon desktop and gtk yes08:53
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crashanddieAfraid not, it's how the window manager handles things IIRC08:53
m2cm2ccrashanddie, is there any way of overriding the window manager through a config file or something ?08:54
crashanddienot that I'm aware of08:54
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DocScrutinizerfull size window with partial alpha?08:54
m2cm2cDocScrutinizer, you can say so, yes08:54
m2cm2cDocScrutinizer, but not alpha , only a small window taking part of the view08:55
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m2cm2ccrashanddie, I've found a config file to mess with the transition effects, but I didn't find one for window effects, but I think there should be one08:55
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DocScrutinizerwas more like a suggestion how to ship oround the winmngr08:55
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m2cm2cDocScrutinizer, I made a widget that pops up a dialog box in the camera app, but when the dialog is open it blurrs out the camera picture08:56
m2cm2cnot blur, but puts a texture of slanted lines on it08:57
crashanddiem2cm2c: I think that's the expected behaviour08:57
crashanddiem2cm2c: screenshot?08:57
crashanddiem2cm2c:  shift + control + p08:57
m2cm2ccrashanddie, a screenshot of my doalog ?08:57
crashanddiewill put the image in Images\Screenshots08:57
crashanddieyeah, I don't understand the slanted lines08:58
m2cm2ccrashanddie, I think the window manager uses slanted lines instead of blurr when there is a video feed in the background08:58
m2cm2ccrashanddie, / / / / something like this :)08:59
crashanddiehow hard is it to take a screenshot?08:59
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DocScrutinizerhehe, yes. as it has to superimpose it into the the video framebuffer08:59
DocScrutinizercan't blurr videoFB08:59
m2cm2cDocScrutinizer, yep09:00
DocScrutinizerif you use a fullscreen window, then no ///09:00
DocScrutinizerthen make that window transparent09:01
DocScrutinizerthen place a widget inside to hold your text on a solid bg09:01
m2cm2cDocScrutinizer, with gtk or cairo ?09:01
DocScrutinizerno idea - no coder here ;-P09:01
DocScrutinizerjust an idea09:01
m2cm2cDocScrutinizer, I'm not sure how to make a transparent window in gtk tbh09:02
DocScrutinizeri'm not sure if it's possible09:02
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m2cm2cDocScrutinizer, yeah, only solution is to change the background with a ticker to show whats behind the window09:02
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DocScrutinizerwhich isn't exactly what you want09:03
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DocScrutinizerfreggin xchat09:03
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m2cm2cthe only way I figured out to override the blur was a patched hildon09:04
m2cm2cwhich is pretty complicated for a simple dialog09:04
timeless_mbpwhy do you want to?09:04
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timeless_mbpthe platform obviously wants the blur09:05
Mace_N900is gftp in some other repo?09:05
DocScrutinizerwell the cam-app itself knows how to superimpose buttons, as does mediaplayer09:05
m2cm2cI've made a widget to set the camera focus manually and it uses dialogs for input, when the dialogs appear they blurr out the camera app :)09:05
m2cm2cwhich makes it pretty hard to see if the focus is correct or not09:06
timeless_mbpperhaps a dialog isn't the right metaphor on this paltform?09:06
m2cm2ctimeless_mbp, I think for this app it is not, true09:07
DocScrutinizercma itself does it09:07
m2cm2cDocScrutinizer, cam app doesn't have plugin capability09:07
timeless_mbpm2cm2c: the window manager allows compositing flying widgets w/o blurring09:08
timeless_mbpwatch an sms notification while the camera is active09:08
DocScrutinizeryou'd somehow need to at least steal the window handle09:08
m2cm2ctimeless_mbp, sms doesn't blurr out the camera app ?09:09
timeless_mbpm2cm2c: inbound sms or inbound call notifications? it shouldn't09:09
timeless_mbptry them09:10
timeless_mbpnote: this is the notification, not the app09:10
m2cm2ctimeless_mbp, hmmm, I'll look into that, but still that info message shows up on top of the application and covers the view09:10
crashanddieStskeeps: your diplomacy is an inspiration to us all09:11
timeless_mbpit flies across and can respond to clicks09:11
Stskeepscrashanddie: it's just the coffee09:11
m2cm2ctimeless_mbp, let me see if I can stick a button into a notification area :P09:11
DocScrutinizergdigicam FOSS, cameraui closed blob :-(09:12
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: thanks for the reference, mad useful09:13
Stskeepswhich one of them?09:13
Stskeepsah, yes09:13
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ShapeshifterI don't understand why downloading over 3G is so much more energy consuming, or rathe, why *receiving* data through an antenna uses any significant amount of power at all. sending I can understand clearly, but for something like a radio stream, where upload is almost nil?09:27
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m2cm2ctimeless_mbp, notification blurrs out the background too -.-09:28
Shapeshifterbtw this is a technical question, not a complaint ;)09:28
crashanddieShapeshifter: AFAIK because you need to send acknowledgements continuously for each packet?09:28
crashanddiewell, maybe not for each packet09:29
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Shapeshifterah yes, didnt think of that09:29
m2cm2cShapeshifter, it is all about processor power consumption, faster data means faster processing and more errors, which will lead to uploading also :)09:29
achipa_nettopwho is the planet Maemo guy ? Niels ?09:29
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crashanddieShapeshifter: also because it is effectively the same as having a phone conversation going on (well, roughly, I'd think), a lot of decoding and such going on09:30
crashanddieachipa_nettop: "planet maemo guy"?09:30
achipa_nettopcrashanddie: as in ’who do I poke if planet Maemo censors my blog posts’ :D09:30
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crashanddieachipa_nettop: ah, yes, Niels, or mr X-Fade as we like to call him here09:32
crashanddiewe also like to like to highlight X-Fade for no particular reason09:32
timeless_mbpm2cm2c: wrong notification09:33
achipa_nettopwho is this X-Fade you keep talking about ?09:33
timeless_mbpi don't mean info banners09:33
timeless_mbpi mean flying windows09:33
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m2cm2ctimeless_mbp, hmmm I though you meant  "hildon.hildon_note_new_information" , what are you talking about then ? :)09:33
Shapeshifterthough a banner might work as well?09:34
timeless_mbpno no no :)09:34
timeless_mbpm2cm2c: go use the device for a bit09:34
timeless_mbpget someone to call you09:34
timeless_mbpdon't answer the call09:34
achipa_nettopX-Fade: but seriously, I have posts which got imported but never appeared on news09:34
timeless_mbp(do it while you're watching a movie)09:34
timeless_mbpor get someone to send you an sms (again, while you're watching a movie)09:34
m2cm2ctimeless_mbp: ok, but what are these notifications called ? "programming wise"09:35
achipa_nettopX-Fade: I know they are boring but probably not to the extent of completely leaving them out of news :)09:35
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crashanddieachipa_nettop: X-Fade = Niels09:37
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crashanddieachipa_nettop: if we just keep highlighting the word X-Fade, he'll have to wake up and reply eventually09:38
achipa_nettopcrashanddie: you reckon X-Fade is sensitive to such things ?09:39
crashanddiewell he is X-Fade after all09:39
crashanddiei've never met an X-Fade who could ignore all the highlighting continuously09:39
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crashanddieso i reckon he will come back to us, ain't that right X-Fade?09:40
infobot*YAWN*  I get *YAWN* tired just thinking of large boxes of unknown substances being poured into nooks and crannies and eaten by little monsters that like to kill fluffy bunnies and oh god I'm tired..09:40
achipa_nettopCategories: webos09:40
DocScrutinizer~xyawn is coffee||nap09:40
infobotDocScrutinizer: okay09:40
infobotrumour has it, xyawn is nap09:41
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achipa_nettopfrom 10 maemo related keyword it picks webos... great09:41
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achipa_nettoplet’s see if X-Fade has something against webos09:42
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achipa_nettopyep, webos trumps meego, meego trumps maemo09:47
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Stskeepsgood/bad thing i'm putting myself in the firing line btw? :P09:49
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mecehey do qt 4.6 apps run straight up in kde?09:52
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tekojomece yes if you have the 4.6 libraries09:53
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: depends on your amount of masochistic tendencies09:53
achipa_nettopStskeeps: probably both :) my guess you’ll get the regular mix of praises and rants from grumpy bones09:53
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: big, obviously - i wrote scratchbox on my resume ;)09:53
* Stskeeps goes answer some more posts09:53
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TermanaI particularly like this answer:09:54
achipa_nettopStskeeps: you mean you wrote you LIKE scratchbox ?09:54
Termana"Yes, I'm getting to your post - don't worry. I will answer posts but not immediately, just woke up an hour ago"09:54
Stskeepsachipa_nettop: no, i know how to tame it09:54
achipa_nettop(crowd goes ’aaaw’)09:55
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mecetekojo, thanks.09:55
achipa_nettopStskeeps: is it the torreador approach or the more common pamplona ’run for it’ style ?09:55
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Stskeepsachipa_nettop: hehe09:56
* DocScrutinizer has decided you never must miss an opportunity to have a coffee. Especially when you had just 1h of sleep :-P09:57
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DocScrutinizersorry ibot, try again09:59
infobotwell, xyawn is nap09:59
DocScrutinizertzz, took a nap09:59
crashanddiefrals: damn, kinetic scrolling on a treeview is seriously slow :p10:00
Shapeshifterscrolling is choppy almost anywhere10:00
meceqt treeview?10:01
DocScrutinizerwhy I'm not surprised?10:02
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crashanddiesome people need to learn how to use forums10:03
crashanddiePosting a single image, without any other information, as a new thread, in the wrong section, as a first post.
mecetekojo, kubuntu 9.10 got, so I guess it should run straight up..10:04
Nailbarmece: maybe. Gotta check what repos are loaded10:05
tekojomece you should be ok with that10:05
tekojonaturally the Maemo specific library isnt' there10:06
tekojobut it's simplest to develop on desktop and cross compile when you are fairly certain that it should work :)10:06
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achipa_nettopcrashanddie: Pecan. Nuff said.10:07
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Nailbartekojo and mece, It seems that Kubuntu 9.10 uses qt 4.5 but the next one which will be released this week will be using qt 4.6.210:09
meceNailbar, righty-o.10:09
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mececrashanddie, LOL looks like it's going to be an epic thread. Comment #3 lays the foundations.10:09
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crashanddiemece: I replied :)10:12
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mececrashanddie, you replied, I LOL'd10:17
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m2cm2cwhat is the dev channel for maemo ?10:18
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mecehey what's a good qt widget to display a list of stuff that can look like a notepad with dashes or something? can the list'view be styled?10:18
crashanddiem2cm2c: #uberdev10:18
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crashanddiemece: eh? notepad with dashes10:18
mecewhat is it called10:18
m2cm2cdamn, I fell for it10:18
mecethe lines on a paper10:18
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m2cm2cDocScrutinizer, ty10:19
mecem2cm2c, what doc said.10:19
crashanddiethere's a #maemo-devel channel?10:19
DocScrutinizernot really10:19
mececrashanddie, yes. It's full, but all you see are those rolling bushes from sergio leone movies.10:19
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mececrashanddie, I meant the blue lines on here:
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m2cm2cmece, theres an app that looks like that, Im' not sure if it is a widget or even qt :>10:22
crashanddiemece: textview.set_buffer('_' * width * height)10:22
m2cm2canyways I have keyboard shorcut enabled for my live focus app, but still a gui would be nicer without that blurring effect10:23
m2cm2cI give up :>10:23
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m2cm2cI'm too lazy to put in in extras tbh -.-10:24
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crashanddiem2cm2c: in short (because I'm about to leave for the pub): it's going to be very, very tough. The blurring effect conflicts with whatever overlay is used to display the webcam10:24
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crashanddiem2cm2c: if you need to see the cam output, just make a fullscreen window and show the camera output in small, so that your options/effects menu can be shown at the same time as the output10:25
crashanddieif you don't care about seeing the video output, just hide it completely -- will always be better than some ugly artefact10:25
m2cm2ccrashanddie, the user has to see how well the focus is going10:26
crashanddiem2cm2c: then show your own cropped/zoomed in image10:26
m2cm2ccrashanddie, but about that camera output, I think I could use gstreamer for that10:26
crashanddiea good technique is to show the camera output in small + tap to zoom in on the area10:26
m2cm2ccrashanddie, but still it would conflict with the camera app10:26
crashanddieno it wouldn't10:26
m2cm2ccrashanddie, oh ?10:27
crashanddiedon't think it would10:27
crashanddiethere's ways around it, lead the way10:27
m2cm2ccrashanddie, I should give that a try10:27
crashanddieit's the proper way to do it anyway10:27
m2cm2ccrashanddie, but I don't want to make a new camera app if you nkow what I mean10:27
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crashanddiefair enough10:28
crashanddieanyway, beer o'clock10:28
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furunk3lyes hello10:41
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m2cm2cdamn gstreamer conflicts with camera app -.-10:48
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Nailbarmece, something like "sticky notes"?10:49
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yigalI want a portable device that will let me create and adheres to the freedom that lays in my heart10:56
Corsacshould it be usable too?10:57
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KhertanHi !10:59
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pupnikfinland has a lot of nice rocks11:02
nid0just what every country needs11:03
Khertanpupnik: are you talking about music ?11:03
pupnikno big boulders visible in the ground11:03
Khertanbut they have also nice metal group :)11:04
pupnikoften with trees growing on them11:04
pupnikalso bathrooms that are one bug shower11:06
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* timeless_mbp sighs11:09
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hrwwhat you people use to play 640x352 XVID movies?11:09
timeless_mbpmy pay as you go sim just got a spam call11:09
timeless_mbpif i want to opt out of spam calls, i have to pay for 2 minutes11:09
hrw"mplayer -ao pulse -vo xv(something)" blocks from time to time (movie played from MyDocs)11:09
X-Fadehrw: Shouldn't that just work on the default player?11:09
nid0depends on the container used11:10
nid0but in general, it does11:10
nid0then it does11:10
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hrwX-Fade: recently it stopped playing anything11:11
hrwmp3, ogg, divx avi etc11:11
X-Fadehrw: Huh?11:11
nid0do they all come back with unsupported format errors?11:11
hrwnid0: yep11:12
nid0if so, you just need a reboot, cos you tried to play something it doesnt like11:12
hrwbug 682311:12
povbotBug media player won't play any video files now (.avi) divx / xvid11:12
nid0sometimes playing 1 file the dsp doesnt like = it locks up and wont play anything till reboot11:12
hrwandre__: looks like another 'get lost user' type of error ;(11:13
JaffaMorning, all11:15
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X-FadeMorning Jaffa11:15
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achipa_nettopX-Fade: sooo, if you had hiccups this morning you probably know why :)11:16
X-FadeNot enough coffee?11:17
achipa_nettopX-Fade: but the real question is why are some planet maemo articles missing from the news/planet page11:17
achipa_nettopeven though they are present on the author’s page for that feed (on planet)11:18
X-Fadeachipa_nettop: I don't see a problem?11:18
achipa_nettoplast post, from yesterday11:19
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achipa_nettopnot present (=missing) in planet and news11:19
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achipa_nettopmight be others, too, but obviously I noticed for my post first :)11:19
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X-Fadeachipa_nettop: I see it on the planet? Only on page211:20
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hrw~curse nokia11:21
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nokia !11:21
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timeless_mbphey, administrating wXP ain't bad11:22
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hrwtimeless_mbp: want to do that with my wife's laptop?11:22
hrwtimeless_mbp: xpsp2 which hangs on installing xpsp3 or mswie811:23
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timeless_mbphrw: sure, bring it over :)11:24
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meceaaw crud. I have to manually wrap text in QListWidget? yawn.11:25
infobotxyawn is, like, nap11:25
achipa_nettopX-Fade: hm...  the date is off..11:26
achipa_nettopX-Fade: but this seems to be some blogspot draft-silly-date11:26
achipa_nettopX-Fade: sorry for the noise11:26
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X-Fadeachipa_nettop: When you start to write it, that is the date blogger sets in he feed.11:27
X-Fade*the feed11:27
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* mece is loving QtSDK a little, but not fully.11:30
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noobmonk3ymornin alls11:41
noobmonk3yhoping someone clever can help.... i'm aware that the Touchscreen is input3... and can see it on the device, any idea if there is a way to read out how much pressure is being put on the screen? (Saw the driver code, and can see pressure mentioned in it alot) - but not helping me in figuring out how to read it11:42
SpeedEvilI assume you've parsed the output of event3, and not found it?11:43
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noobmonk3yyeah SpeedEvil11:49
noobmonk3yi'm thinking maybe hal or dbus may be able to do it?11:49
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GAN900Stskeeps, shoulda gone to the lists instead of Talk. :rolleyes:11:53
StskeepsGAN900: nah, the problems are mainly at talk, so better to take the issues up front11:54
GAN900Stskeeps, but, hey, at least he proved Nathan wrong! :P11:54
* GAN900 suspects a "This is what's up with Mer and why you're not getting a backport and why MeeGo is the way forward" approach would've been more productive than "Everybody take a pot shot"11:55
Stskeepsmeh, tried11:55
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achipaX-Fade: just to bug you a little more, how is the 'category' determined from the labels ? My post had a java label originally, which I subsequently removed as that was not really the focus, then I got to be webos, and now it's meego. Does it take the first one ? Last one ? Or ?11:59
* GAN900 is amazed at the level those pot shots are stooping to.11:59
GAN900Not that I should be, but still.11:59
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StskeepsGAN900: if anything, i have somewhere to refer to as in 'we had this argument already'11:59
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achipaX-Fade: also, it doesn't seem to update the date... which I guess I understand... but now have the urge to bump my post :)12:02
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NetrumHi all.12:10
Netrumi had a rather wierd thing happen to my n900 last night..12:10
noobmonk3yit made the tea?12:11
Netrumi wish :P12:11
Netrumi had it connected to my computer. using it as a modem.12:11
noobmonk3yor just wireless?12:11
Netrumdownloading stuff over torrent. when it suddenly made a wierd sound and shutdown.12:11
noobmonk3yahhh okies12:12
Netrumno not at all12:12
noobmonk3yhave to ask :P12:12
SpeedEvilthe wierd noise - did it sound like an explosion in a bell factory/12:12
Netrumbell factory actually12:12
noobmonk3yok so a standard device, and was doing the usuals then just bleeped and died?12:12
SpeedEvilIf so, that's the empty battery shutdown12:12
noobmonk3ydo you know what the boot reason was?12:12
* noobmonk3y smiles12:12
Netrumyea basicly12:12
SpeedEvilconnected to computer will not provide enough power for downloading torrents12:13
noobmonk3yboot_reason (Ie msg device sends out)12:13
SpeedEvilthe battery will slowly discharge12:13
Netrumthats the conclussion i came too aswell. just needed to confirm it :) ty12:13
noobmonk3ySpeedEvil: good point :D12:13
SpeedEviland shutdown12:13
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SpeedEvilThe noise is confusing.12:13
noobmonk3ybattery monitor or similar installed?12:13
SpeedEvilIt should play 'Daisy Daisy'.12:13
noobmonk3ylol SpeedEvil12:13
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Netrum:P no i havent installed any battery monitor apps12:14
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KnightStalkerany one knows why I get "Not enough memory in target location"12:15
plastunKnightStalker, try: # apt-get clean12:15
noobmonk3yKnightStalker: - rootfs full12:16
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, rootfs is mount ro, but all the nessary files that need to be writen to are created in a ramdisk that is rw12:16
noobmonk3ylol i love infobot12:16
infobot[battery] made by Danionics, or at
KnightStalkercould not lock file12:17
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KnightStalkerplastun,your command failed =( =(12:17
noobmonk3yKnightStalker: got app manager open?12:17
noobmonk3yclose it ;)12:17
noobmonk3yapp manager uses the same command12:17
KnightStalkeroh,that sowwy :P12:17
plastunKnightStalker, why?12:17
noobmonk3yboth cant run together12:17
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plastunnoobmonk3y, true12:18
timeless_mbpTrizt: so, you should get an updated localization set soon12:18
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timeless_mbpTrizt: if you could lemme know if things get better, that'd be great12:19
* KnightStalker closed the app manager the command still failed,restarting device :p12:19
plastunKnightStalker, your device is little mistyc :)12:20
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plastunmystic :)12:21
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Stskeepsmorning RevdKathy12:22
KnightStalkerI have had forgotten the sudo part :P12:22
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SpeedEvil haha12:25
KnightStalkerProblem Fixed12:25
KnightStalkerthanks plastun =)12:25
StskeepsSpeedEvil: harsh crowd today12:25
nid0thats very harsh12:25
SpeedEvilHarsh, but fair. Assuming that Stskeeps can SEE THE FUTURE!12:26
SpeedEvilHe can, can't he?12:26
Stskeepsfuture can be changed by our actions12:26
Stskeepsor by observing my work, you altered the future!12:26
SpeedEvilThe notion that meego peeps diddn't at least glance at mer, seems unlikely12:27
SpeedEvilThough the goals in many ways are obvious.12:27
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* SpeedEvil wishes there was some nice way to get a list of running processes from one file.12:31
SpeedEvilOh well.12:31
bilboed-pilsof ?12:31
SpeedEvilCurrently trying to do a battery analyser to plot 'stuff' happening every 5s.12:31
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SpeedEvilFrom '10 bytes network transfer over 3g' to 'xchat scheduled for 1/100th of a second last 5s'.12:32
SpeedEvilI mean in a single fopen.12:32
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SpeedEvilI suppose I'll have to look into something else than awk to write it in. (as awk has no readdir12:33
wazdanother stolen concept from me12:33
wazdfuck that12:33
SpeedEvilwazd: well - if you're referring to me, my rate of progress is quite slow.12:34
* Stskeeps looks12:34
Stskeepswazd: which one of them?12:34
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TomaszDgood day12:34
wazdStskeeps: horizontal day scroll12:34
wazdStskeeps: they didn't have it before, and actually no app did12:35
Surfaomweater would be nice the forecast would be even near to what really is happening :)12:35
SpeedEvilwazd: calendar?12:35
Surfaforeca weather is much more accurate for finland at least12:35
Stskeepswazd: ah, the famous simpsons did it..12:35
* SpeedEvil hugs yr.no12:35
Stskeepswazd: you should start patenting your concepts12:35
Stskeeps:P12:35 is awesome12:35
wazdSurfa: write a letter to weather.com12:35
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Surfawell, or just use foreca weather12:36
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TomaszDwazd, while you're concepting, please please concept actually usable bluemaemo, I don't know who designed it, but it's awful :(12:36
TomaszDomweather 0.3 is looking good wazd12:36
wazdTomaszD: I've designed it12:36
Jaffawazd: You published an article saying "this'd be really good"; OMWeather didn't implement it (AFAIK) and then complain that someone else did? Presumably the problem is that the video doesn't have, in big flashing letters throughout, "horizontal day scroll inspired by wazd"?12:36
wazdTomaszD: at least n900 version12:37
RolandHello all, I just wanted to ask if anyone had any news about the MeeGo project's relation to Maemo 612:37
TomaszDwazd, oh :( geez dude, it wasn't your day, really12:37
* Stskeeps votes for early weekend12:37
SurfaRoland, there is won't be such thing as maemo 612:37
TomaszDwazd, I wish I could force you to use the bluemaemo keyboard to see how unusable it is :)12:37
wazdJaffa: I published an article what we're working on12:37
fralshmm, wheres vdvsx when you need him12:37
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RolandSurfa I hope that means current maemo devices will all run MeeGo? After necessary kernel upgrades of course12:38
Surfawhy would they?12:38
X-Fadefrals: I think you were quite close to him last week?12:38
Jaffawazd: Perhaps it's a perfect example of how the Qt SDK enables faster developer turnaround ;-)12:38
Surfahave you ever seen symbian 3.1 phone running symbian 3.2? :)12:38
wazdJaffa: yep, awesome12:38
fralsX-Fade: yeah, i met him.. but i need him now :D12:38
wazdTomaszD: you can't12:38
RolandNo of course not with Symbian12:38
fralsor, "need" :)12:39
TomaszDwazd, you don't have an n900 right?12:39
wazdTomaszD: bingo12:39
X-Fadefrals: Hehe, ok.12:39
StskeepsRoland: n900 has a hardware adaptation team for it and n8x0 is in works by community, well, once the flames die down12:39
TomaszDwazd, would you like a usability study of the application, would you use it for improvements?12:39
RolandBut I hoped that the N900 being a Linux based device meant we can chose our own OS's12:39
wazdTomaszD: no, thanks12:39
SurfaRoland, other way around, do you see n8xx devices running maemo5?12:40
TomaszDwazd, but it's really bad, it's nothing personal12:40
wazdTomaszD: let it be a good example of "what happens when designer doesn't have a device to test"12:40
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RolandNo but are they Linux based?12:40
TomaszDwazd, oh yes, but let's not punish everyone for it12:40
wazdTomaszD: have I punished anyone yet?12:40
TomaszDwazd, the design punishes users :)12:41
TomaszDnot you personally12:41
X-FadeTomaszD: Or lack of..12:41
RolandThis is kind of disappointing...12:41
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TomaszDX-Fade, yeah, unfortunately true :(12:41
RolandThey call the N900 a computer like device and you're stuck with the samne OS as long as you own it?12:41
wazdTomaszD: VDVsx is the lead developer, you can post feedback to him12:41
TomaszDwazd, thanks12:42
StskeepsRoland: go read my post i just pointed you to12:42
hrwRoland: you can try to install other OS but then it will lose phone functionality12:42
SurfaRoland, that's not the point.. read the article Stskeeps pasted for you12:42
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Stskeepshrw, this is actually getting helped, it seems like12:42
RolandWill do12:42
Stskeepshrw: speech path lib was released12:42
wazdStskeeps: The Following 424 Users Say Thank You to Stskeeps For This  Useful Post:12:43
Surfabut officially n900 is and probably will stay as maemo5 device, unofficially it may be whatever you want12:43
wazdStskeeps: and who you are after that? :D12:43
hrwStskeeps: and still no dialer/sms etc12:43
Stskeepswazd: a karma whore12:43
RolandI've already read this post. I found it through Google last night...12:43
Stskeepshrw: it's getting better12:43
Surfait doesn't make sense to support officially too many hw platforms12:43
Surfayou may find the reasoning, if you just like to12:43
RolandMakes sense for Google12:44
Surfan900 is missing plenty of hw capabilities that new device will probably have12:44
Surfaso n900 version would be somewhat deprecated anyway12:44
hrwStskeeps: maybe one day FSO guys will decide to adapt n900 so some apps will exists.12:44
RolandEvery Android device gets an OS update once the new version of Android is released.... That's what I call mobile computing.12:44
Po0kyw 2812:44
fralsare we discussing "omg wtf meego on n900?!?!?!"?12:44
hrwStskeeps: so far oFono is only listed as something which exists but no one yet used rather12:44
StskeepsRoland: actually. they don't12:44
nid0Roland: wat?12:45
* Stskeeps often hears of devices that haven't gotten the latest updates yet12:45
TomaszDnot here12:45
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nid0lots of android devices are stuck on the version they come with forever12:45
floriangood morning12:45
SurfaRoland, as you may have noticed, your'e pretty wrong with that :)12:45
Stskeepseven iphone are leaving behind older devices now too12:45
Rolandthen as a developer i'd say the term "mobile computing" is far from being ready to be used12:45
hrwhi florian12:46
SurfaRoland, there are good reasons for that12:46
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StskeepsRoland: at least the situation seems more interesting with n900.12:46
Surfaevery vendor and hw manufacturer are making this and that with whatever they feel comfortable with12:46
Surfathat's not quite the case with pc:s for example12:46
chem|stRoland: when I got first notice of a friend buying a motorola droid I told him that motorola is known for non-existance of SW updates and they have to update their android on their own12:46
SpeedEvilRoland: It takes many, many man-hours to port shit.12:46
RolandI'm sure there are. I never programmed with mobile API's so I'm sure mobile OS developers have their reasons12:47
Surfathere aren't that standardized things to work with in mobile devices12:47
SpeedEvilRoland: This is a significant cost - especially when your software vendors often want paid for included apps, or want teh apps which they have developed to keep working12:47
chem|stthats why java was so famous a while ago12:47
Surfajava would still be nice12:47
Surfaeven on the maemo and meego12:48
Surfathere's plenty of good stuff implemented with java..12:48
RolandJava's my language and I love its plantform independency12:48
sECuREnot having to use java was one of the reasons why i bought an n900 ;)12:48
chem|stSurfa: give an example pls12:48
Surfachem|st, geocaching live, and don't ask for more.. you can do that study by yourself too12:49
SpeedEvilWhat does it do that gpxview doesn't for example?12:49
chem|stSurfa: mmh still nothing missing12:50
Surfachem|st, so there must be nothing that anyone could be missing?12:50
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chem|stSurfa: my previous phone was full of java programs and I do not miss a single one of them12:51
SurfaSpeedEvil, a lots of things, gpxview is kind of pile of shit compared to gc-live :)12:51
SpeedEvilfair enough. Have you commented on teh issues to the developer?12:51
chem|stwell treckbuddy was nice12:52
Surfanot really as I have spare e71 to use and i get more than enough sw development at work :)12:52
Surfaand there are plenty of things that won't probably ever be implemented, even that developer wanted to12:52
Surfabecause of geocaching.com12:52
wazdoh, Quim allowed Vlad to keep n90012:53
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wazdStskeeps: seriously, 424 thanks for one post!12:56
wazdStskeeps: your're not a whole, you're a karma addict now :D12:57
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Stskeepswazd: and at the same time there's people who think i should be fired, the mind boggles..12:59
X-FadeStskeeps: As you should be ;)12:59
X-FadeTsss, doing things for the community..12:59
X-FadeWho does stuff like that.13:00
wazdStskeeps: everyone who thinks this way will face me before :D13:00
timeless_mbpStskeeps: so um13:00
timeless_mbpdid you see that your build didn't work on my disadvantaged computer?13:00
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wazdStskeeps: and nobody wants to face 2m high pissed off designer :D13:00
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: no13:01
X-FadeStskeeps: What I have learnt about doing a job in a community is that you never can satisfy everybody.13:01
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X-FadeAnd there are more people that don't complain than ones that do, so you're doing a good thing :)13:01
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: well, the system is built against a modern kernel, so there's not much i can do in that regard - entire meego is built that way :/13:04
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: the fact that the kernel actually affects userspace outside libc is totally broken13:05
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: ask ulrich depper13:05
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: :o13:14
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: if you run that on the chroot, i can't say there won't be bad consequences13:14
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: why do i get the feeling i already deleted your .tgz13:15
timeless_mbphrm, i didn't :)13:15
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timeless_mbp[timeless@domU-12-31-39-0A-8C-36 lib]$ ../../whosyerdaddy-0.5.sh13:16
timeless_mbpwhosyerdaddy 0.5, a workaround for broken Folding@Home client 6.29 binaries13:16
timeless_mbpCopyright (c) 2010 by Kris Rusocki <>13:16
timeless_mbpLicensed under GPLv213:16
timeless_mbpERROR: not an ELF64 binary!13:16
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meceare there no qt4 libraries in the repos currently?13:25
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TomaszDmece, there should be qt-maemo5-* in extras-devel right?13:26
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Stskeepsthere was a repo post on this13:26
Stskeeps(from council, i think)13:27
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mecethe simulator is not working properly, I need to test this on device...13:28
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meceit's throwing 404's on the libqt packages...13:29
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Surfai don't know if interested people are still here or not, but this is something that popped up lately:
mecethat's nice.13:31
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Surfacouple of days old, but not everyone has necessarily spotted that13:32
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meceStskeeps, if I'm reading the council post correctly, it's telling me that I'm screwed.13:32
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JaffaSurfa: Well, it's a couple of days since that site reported it. But it's over a week old in practice, IIRC13:34
JaffaSurfa: Such value being added by "" in just repasting the mailing list post in its entirety.13:35
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SurfaJaffa, i know, but it's somehow related to earlier discussion13:35
JaffaIt was also included in last week's MWKN digest: :-)13:36
Surfai don't really care if they are fast or slow or copy or write, but the content is pretty much ok13:36
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meceStskeeps, uh.. got it working. nice.13:40
crashanddiegents, I'm stuck. I'm trying to create a gtk.ListStore in python -- I need a dynamic number of columns, but you can only use one function call to create all the columns13:41
crashanddieand obviously, you have to enumerate all the columns (can't pass a tuple or something)13:42
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crashanddiefound it :) gtk.ListStore(*mytuple)13:50
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noobmonk3yJaffa:  where do you get the top downloads information from for mwkn - i never seem to see healthcheck as 'popular' in the downloads -
tybolltthe image that is available for n900 at, is that usable?14:07
noobmonk3ytybollt:  the terminal version?14:08
tybollt(yes, I've been away traveling for a few weeks :)14:08
noobmonk3y:D - its basically a terminal :P14:08
Jaffanoobmonk3y: To get the differences it compares downloads from one week to the next14:08
tybolltnoobmonk3y: I've _no idea_ what-so-ever it is...14:08
Jaffanoobmonk3y: So that's it's more dynamic than the very very static list of "hot"14:08
noobmonk3yahhh cool :D - been very confused with downloads as 2 days ago it showed as 54k downloads yesterday was 51k, and 54k again today! lol14:08
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X-FadeJaffa: That is actually not true ;)14:08
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tybolltnoobmonk3y: ? terminal, like what, it's a linux kernel that boots into a busybox and the prompt says "meego" or what? :)14:09
X-FadeJaffa: Hot is not static anymore, the top downloads list is though.14:09
noobmonk3ytybollt:  not farr off - imagine no gui :D14:09
tybolltnoobmonk3y: not very sexy, is it?14:09
JaffaX-Fade: Well, I mean the algorithm favours long running popularity which is less useful when you snapshot it each week14:09
noobmonk3ytybollt: they are working on the sexyness, i think it is due may with 1.1 due oct time?14:09
tybolltI know my at commands...  ;)14:09
X-FadeJaffa: No it does not for app karma.14:10
* noobmonk3y would love to see more detailed statistics :D14:10
tybolltnoobmonk3y: fair enough.14:10
JaffaX-Fade: Hmm. Have there been recent tweaks?14:10
* frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout14:10
* noobmonk3y eats frals14:10
* noobmonk3y feels like he has just eaten a dirty kebab.....14:10
X-FadeJaffa: See the app karma formula. delta downloads since last week, delta comments and ratings.14:10
JaffaX-Fade: Yeah, but then multiplied with 0.9 of the previous value14:11
JaffaX-Fade: Purposefully to give stability14:11
noobmonk3ytybollt: mentioned in mwkn i think - dual booting meego on the n900 is a target14:11
X-FadeJaffa: The actual every day stats give a lot of movement.14:11
noobmonk3yare there more detailed stats available to us? or just for mwkn?14:11
Jaffanoobmonk3y: I had to reverse engineer the ODS API14:12
X-Fadenoobmonk3y: They are stored in the graph page.14:12
tybolltnoobmonk3y: dualboot my cellphone? FACEPALM14:12
Jaffanoobmonk3y: Wonderfully documented *cough*14:12
X-FadeGraph is a javascript drawing it live.14:12
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noobmonk3yand X-Fade not hugely accurate, since h/c got one 4k downloads in a day, the rest look a bit flat, hard to see differences etc :D - thanks jaffa!14:12
X-FadeJaffa: It actually is.14:12
* wazd facepalms14:12
JaffaX-Fade: The ODS API is, but there's no documentation that I could find on what the Maemo URLs for it are.14:13
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JaffaX-Fade: Typical SOA delivery - without knowing the endpoint the documentation for the API itself isn't very helpful14:13
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X-FadeI actually think there is documentation in the api, let me check.14:14
hrwis promotion broken for fremantle?14:14
X-Fadehrw: no?14:14
hrwI promoted mdbus2 2.0.0-4 and it is not in testing14:14
noobmonk3yfrals:  has fmms taken over the world yet? :D14:15
fralsnoobmonk3y: bah14:15
fralsnoobmonk3y: im blocked by stuff i cant fix without huge time investment by the looks of it :P14:15
noobmonk3yawwww :(14:15
hrwops, sorry - did to testing... found it14:15
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noobmonk3yanything the rest of us can help with?>14:15
fralsie reimplementing how fremantle handles operator provisioning14:15
* noobmonk3y meh's14:15
fralsyeah someone can write a new provisioning service that works with the rest of the system ;D14:16
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fralsand doesnt throw away mms settings ;)14:16
noobmonk3yfrals - if i even understood half of that i would help :D14:16
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* PhonicUK downloads new Qt Creator Beta, woo! :D14:17
fralstime to catch up on tvseries and finish my book14:17
noobmonk3ylol frals14:17
fralswonder if i should have pizza with that14:17
noobmonk3yi think you should14:17
fralsso do i!14:17
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Rabidus-7win 3214:25
Rabiduswow.. nice14:25
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meceWA_Maemo5LandscapeOrientation in pyside?14:32
meceI meant is there WA_Maemo5PortraitOrientation in pyside?14:33
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noobmonk3yhrw: is mdbus2 just cli? or is there a planned gui?14:36
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hrwnoobmonk3y: cli only14:36
noobmonk3ypoo :(14:36
hrwnoobmonk3y: I do not see a sense of ui for such tool14:37
noobmonk3yi erally need a walk through on dbus - as i have used a few examples, but something that lets me know whats available and what i can get out of it would be great!14:37
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hrwnoobmonk3y: "mdbus2 -i" + tab key helps14:37
noobmonk3yits just a load of text with no real meaning to me at the moment14:37
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: <quote zappa> You still don't feel as good as you felt this morning?</quote>14:37
noobmonk3ytab key ... n900? :|14:37
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i has candy14:38
noobmonk3yooo yeah14:38
noobmonk3yon x-term14:38
Stskeepsso i feel better ;)14:38
hrwnoobmonk3y: xterm has tab button... ssh session has it too14:38
DocScrutinizersmoke THAT and you really get off14:38
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noobmonk3yok... got that but it still just lists a load of lines...14:38
noobmonk3yi know that you can get info from but just having it there doesnt mean much to me,14:39
hrwnoobmonk3y: which are dbus objects you can call on14:39
noobmonk3yi wonder if there is an N900 dbus guide somewhere14:39
DocScrutinizerremoo btw14:39
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fralsnoobmonk3y: wiki got a shitton of interfaces listed :p14:39
noobmonk3yhrw - i suppose as i'm new to it, i understand how to call, but to figure out what i can call i need to try each and every one14:39
noobmonk3yfrals: none in simple english14:39
noobmonk3yits a bit like the python guide, it shows you an example of one thing14:40
fralsnoobmonk3y: by monitoring dbus when starting apps you can see what they call14:40
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noobmonk3yfrals - yup got that14:40
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hrwnoobmonk3y: MDBUS2> org.freedesktop.Avahi /14:40
hrwnoobmonk3y: MDBUS2> org.freedesktop.Avahi /  org.freedesktop.Avahi.Server.GetState14:40
noobmonk3yi'm guessing jebba's page probably has about 10% of what dbus can actually do/see?14:40
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fralseven less id say14:41
DocScrutinizerat best14:41
noobmonk3ythats what i'm thinking, a gui that lets me walk through them and see outputs etc.....14:41
mecesoo.. any python bindings to the qt portait mode stuff?14:41
fralsnot all interfaces supports introspection either14:41
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noobmonk3ythen i know what to target in my code, or even better what i can code lol14:41
fralsnoobmonk3y: pft, gui! dbus-monitor --system :P14:41
DocScrutinizerget mdbus214:41
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hrwfrals: mdbus2 -sl :P14:41
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DocScrutinizermickeyl ftw14:42
noobmonk3ylol tried both, means nothing to me14:42
noobmonk3yhard to learn from scratch with this stuff :|14:42
hrwnoobmonk3y: no one told that dbus is sane and easy14:42
DocScrutinizermost hard thing is to conclude semantics of a call and parameters from the mere name14:42
fralsnoobmonk3y: read the dbus tutorial first and it should all make sense14:42
noobmonk3yhrw - i suppose i may have the wrong view of it... but for example... i see dbus as a list of methods/calls... similar to a programming method, on the wiki pages i would see a list of the methods, + all the calls available........14:43
hrwtoo bad that lot of nokia objects lacks introspection14:43
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mecefound it :)14:43
noobmonk3yfrals: i understand what dbus is and how to use it, but not what i can get out of it..... it seems to be trial and error - and more error14:43
mecethat's sweet14:43
meceworks in scratchbox nicely :D14:43
hrwmece: in november you will be able to check on device too14:44
noobmonk3yso more a library of commands that is easily scrollable is a start - and unfortunatley cli apps just dont do it for me ;)14:44
mecehrw, I'm sure I could do it now. This is the old scratchbox14:44
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hrwmece: if you do listening on dbus to get orientation you can14:44
hrwmece: qt 4.6.2/pr1.2 has is automated14:45
hrwbut no way to check does it work ofcourse14:45
mecehrw, but how about the old 4.6?14:45
meceheck I'll test it now.14:45
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hrwmece: 4.6/extras-devel == 4.6/pr1.214:45
hrwmece: when it comes to autorotation stuff14:45
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hrwmece: is pr1.1 rotation, is pr1.2 rotation14:47
hrwnoobmonk3y: "mdbus2 -s  org.freedesktop.Avahi / |less" in one terminal + coding in other?14:48
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DocScrutinizerhrw: more like using apps for days in other 'terminal' - to get metric megatons of dbus log to read thru usually as you got no idea what to grep for14:49
mecehrw, well I can manually rotate14:49
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DocScrutinizerjust to learn in the end, e.g. addressbook isn't accessable over dbus14:50
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DocScrutinizerstart and end of ringtone isn't dbus... :-/14:52
sECuREis there a libraray for ringtones?14:52
sECuREor does one play them using gstreamer?14:53
DocScrutinizerobviously not, at least never seen such thing yet14:53
hrwDocScrutinizer: basically there are lot of things which are not dbus14:53
DocScrutinizerand at least as much are horribly 'documented'14:54
sECuREyep.. but at least there is some documentation14:54
sECuREfor what exactly?14:55
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DocScrutinizerpick example as you like14:55
hrwsECuRE: I more trust wiki pages written by community developers then to official nokia maemo docs14:55
sECuREdoc: libosso-abook has a reference doc14:55
sECuRElibalarm aswell14:55
DocScrutinizerI know - but that's not dbus, no?14:56
sECuRElibalarm internally uses dbus14:56
sECuREbut agreed, dbus docu could be more14:56
sECuREi had trouble to get it working, too14:56
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* DocScrutinizer still waiting for O'Reilly Maemo5 Unleashed15:00
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* noobmonk3y agree's with DocScrutinizer 15:02
* frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout15:03
* noobmonk3y giggles15:03
noobmonk3yfrals: that trout mnust be getting worn out by now15:03
fralsim out of coke so need to go to the store :<15:03
fralsbut i cba leaving my chair15:03
fralsany ideas?15:03
fralsand yes, time for a new trout soon!15:03
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noobmonk3yfrals: takeaway delivery15:04
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SpeedEvilfrals: If you were next door, I'd take over my bottle of coke15:04
hrwDocScrutinizer: someone plans to write such one?15:05
SpeedEvil(though it is completely flat, having been in a hot attic since 2007)15:05
noobmonk3yhrw - well volounteered!15:05
DocScrutinizer"from A like 'Upstart' to Z like 'sane partitioning alternatives and optification'. Now with addendum 'how to handle NOLO"15:05
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Stskeepsyou're expecting anyone dares to read the nolo code15:06
DocScrutinizerhrw: dunno15:06
hrwit would have so much sense as writing 'AmigaOS 0.7 unleashed' book15:06
hrwas it would describe not used OS when would get print15:07
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: bah, we mastered uBoot and Qi :-P15:07
hrwDocScrutinizer: what about redboot?15:07
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DocScrutinizernot *my* cup of tea15:08
DocScrutinizeractually never heard of15:08
DocScrutinizeranyway, c'mon it's a silly BOOTLOADER ;-D15:08
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DocScrutinizerplus a friggin flasher-tool15:09
hrwfor device without accessible serial port bootloader does not matter so much15:10
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DocScrutinizerhmm, another nice topic for the addendum15:11
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DocScrutinizer"what's those testpads? A simple way to interface and get even more out of your N900"15:11
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Stskeepsmorning andrew15:13
DocScrutinizerhow to build your own debug jig15:13
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i wonder if anyone ever asked publically if they could have instructions how to interface with the serial port15:13
DocScrutinizernobody dared ;-P15:14
Stskeepsthat might be true15:14
TermanaThe Nexus One provides a serial port through the Micro USB port - I wonder why Nokia didn't consider this same sort of thing for the n900?15:14
SpeedEvilTermana: It depends on what is connectable easily to the USB port15:14
SpeedEvilTermana: this sort of stuff isn't free unfortunately.15:15
StskeepsTermana: technically we can have g_serial15:15
Stskeepsexcept not from very early in the process15:15
SpeedEvilTermana: adding another function to the USB port can cost a substantial fraction of a dollar15:15
DocScrutinizernot if it's not in NOLO15:15
andrewfblackmorning Stskeeps15:15
SpeedEvilTermana: meaning that you add another dollar or so to the retail15:15
TermanaStskeeps, Right, but thats not helpful if your doing bootloader/early kernel debugging15:15
DocScrutinizerand for the things you really NEED a console, any g_serial mounted thru init process is too late and thus useless15:16
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TermanaThe N1 actually provides a REAL serial port through the Micro USB and the LK Bootloader (the bootloader used on the N1) sends out log messages over it, so this allows you to debug all the way through from start to finish15:18
TermanaSpeedEvil, Sure it might have been an extra dollar or two on top of the retail price, but I think the possibility it would give for low level developers would be worth it15:18
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SpeedEvilTermana: There are probably around 20 'would be nice' things to have for developers.15:20
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SpeedEvilTermana: this would have added maybe $40 to the price.15:21
Stskeeps'N900 hacker edition'15:21
Stskeepsdid you know you can access the serial port on the qemu emulated n900 with the meego image btw?15:21
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andrewfblackStskeeps: got a meeting will read in a minute15:22
Stskeepsandrewfblack: k15:22
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SpeedEvil3 axis magnetometer and gyro. IR reciever. IRDA capable reciever/transmitter. serial port accessible without removing the battery. keyboard matrix improvements, swappable emmc, FM reciever with good antenna tuner on an internal ariel, ...15:23
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SpeedEvilNice dock connector, way to swap batteries without losing state, support for USB serial/video/audio/car dock/protocols on the usb.15:24
SpeedEvilAll of these are generally under a dollar15:24
TermanaRight, most of those would of probably been more important for application developers than low level developers though15:25
TermanaBut I understand what your saying15:25
SpeedEvilnon-shitty frontcam15:26
SpeedEvilactually - for low-level devs - simply making available for purchase the nokia debug adaptor which the phone slots onto would do it15:26
* noobmonk3y likes his shitty front-cam!15:26
SpeedEvilthat gets you as serial port15:26
ShadowJKmece, that was some fast fixing of your USB port :)15:26
TermanaThere probably isn't that many people who would consider proper serial over micro usb important - I only find it interesting because I involve myself with kernel level development, but I doubt the majority or the masses would give a damn15:27
PhonicUK830MB later, I have the new SDK! :)15:27
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TermanaAnd yes if the sold that, then it would be problem solved (sort of) - but AFAIK they don't.15:28
SpeedEvilThey do!15:28
SpeedEvil(but only to nokia authorised repair centres)15:28
* noobmonk3y goes for lunch bbiab15:28
SpeedEvilI havne't investigated how to become one.15:28
TermanaRight, so not helpful.15:28
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korhojoamaemo eh15:31
korhojoaguess what15:31
korhojoamy father acquired a n900 since he saw me using mine. now he's all "how do i turn it to silent"15:31
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hrwanyway nokia and making device developer friendly? no shit...15:32
meceShadowJK, yeah, it was pretty amazing :D15:33
meceHey is there a pyside-maemo5 package hanging around somewhere with working dependencies?15:33
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DocScrutinizerTermana: (real basic serial over USB) will break the way NOLO is working to manage firmware flashing and bat charging15:34
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TermanaDocScrutinizer, So there is at least a partial technical reason why the couldn't have done it?15:35
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DocScrutinizerTermana: yes. Generally speaking USB2 is really delicate with parasitary capacitance introduced by *any* additional components hooked up to the D+/- as well. Even Tranzorbs can be too much15:38
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DocScrutinizera multiplexer most likely is15:38
DocScrutinizerprobably you could bitbang tty over the primary function GPIOs of the USB15:39
DocScrutinizerbut that's still in conflict with specs I'd guess15:40
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DocScrutinizerand as it stands cert specs killed our USB hostmode (though there's ever growing chances to resurrect it ;-)15:41
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* MohammadAG thought it killed OTG :(15:42
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meceok so what is the PyQt4 equivalent of QMaemo5KinteicScroller ?? I can't find a reference manual anywhere.15:44
DocScrutinizeryeah, and en passant hostmode as well15:44
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hrwmece: QMaemo5KinteicScroller died already iirc15:46
hrwmece: kinetic scrolling is on by default now15:46
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, there's still hope right?15:47
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DocScrutinizermore than ever before15:47
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mecehrw, so I just skip that one and it should work?15:49
mecehrw, that's nice.15:49
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meceDocScrutinizer, what's this aobut usb now? A New Hope?15:55
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mecehmm will I borken my phone if I install libqt4 from sdk repo?16:00
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DocScrutinizermece: hostmode on a logical level is just another sequence of databytes sent over the very same interface, so no issues except we need the correct driver to 'talk' host. musb_hdrc seems unable to do. HW side it's switchin between 1 R 2k2 pullup, and 2 x R 15k pulldown for the other mode. It's no real showstopper, even if we find we're not able to flip the corresponding bit in 1707 PHY chip. And then there's VBUS 5V supply. You could get away16:00
DocScrutinizerwithout that by using an externally powered hub, y-cable etc. But it seems the bq24150 batcharger chip can provide a decent 5V to the USB receptacle16:00
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achipamece: saywhat  ? QMaemo5KinteicScroller ?16:01
meceachipa, well it's something that apparently is not needed anymore.16:02
achipamece: there is an QAbstractScrollThingaMajig nowadays16:03
achipathough you need to do some funky casting to get to it16:03
meceachipa it's automagical with QListWidget for example.16:04
DocScrutinizermece: mainly we'd need a gifted kernel hacker to put a better driver than that piece of crap called musb_hdrc ( ) into the kernel16:04
achipamece: there you go16:04
hrwDocScrutinizer: musb_hdrc is what drives OTG on omap16:04
DocScrutinizerhrw: musb_hdrc is what OBVIOUSLY NOT drives OTG on omap (as it seems right now)16:05
mecewhy the crappetyhell can I not install pyside on the device? I have the same gaddamn libqt4 installed as in scratchbox?16:05
achipamece: the trouble is when you start doing thinking how do things like QAbstractKineticScroller *scroller = scrollArea->property("kineticScroller").value<QAbstractKineticScroller *>(); in python16:05
DocScrutinizerthough it's supposed to16:05
hrwDocScrutinizer: depends which omap machine we are talking about16:05
achipaif you can avoid that, cool16:05
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DocScrutinizerwell if there are working implemetations on other omap platforms, then we should be able to fix this one, no?16:06
achipamece: no you don't16:06
achipamece: pyside is recompiled for PR1.216:06
achipamece: so unless you are saying you've got PR1.2 on your device...16:07
korhojoaseriously. has anyone put together a bot that checks for that string yet?16:07
DocScrutinizerhrw: btw we're not interested in OTG first instance. We want a simple hostmode driver16:07
hrwDocScrutinizer: n900 has only OTG port. musb_hdrc handle host part16:08
DocScrutinizerOTG is a hell of negotiations and insane VBUS pulsing etc16:08
* achipa thinks String is too mundane a term to cover all the horrors of "that"16:08
mecerigth that's the whole problem isn't it?16:08
DocScrutinizerhrw: sorry, don't get it. what's "OTG port"?16:08
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meceany way to install the old version?16:09
achipamece: yep. You'll see libqt4-core (>> 4.6.2~gitwhatever)16:09
achipaI guess so16:09
achipatry with =16:09
hrwDocScrutinizer: omap3 has EHCI port and OTG port. first is driven by ehci_hcd, second by musb_hdrc16:09
achipaapt-get install pyside-gui=previousversionname16:09
hrwDocScrutinizer: musb_hdrc handle switching host/client/none and host part16:10
meceachipa, will do, thanks.,16:10
DocScrutinizerhrw: there's basically no such thing like different EHCI and OTG ports16:10
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DocScrutinizerhrw: please tell me how it handles a forced switch to host. 'echo host > mode' simply does nuttin16:11
meceachipa is that the whole filename?16:11
mecelike apt-get install pyside-qt4=pyside-qt4_0.2.3_1maemo216:12
hrwDocScrutinizer: short ID pin to ground16:12
DocScrutinizerhrw: that's nonsense, cause that's OTG16:12
hrwDocScrutinizer: but n900 does not have Id pin connected16:12
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DocScrutinizerthat's also incorrect16:12
achipajust version16:12
achipaapt-get install pyside-qt4=0.2.3-1maemo316:12
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hrwDocScrutinizer: with beagleboard I plug usb client cable and gadgets works. I plug host cable and usbhub gets recognized16:13
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DocScrutinizerand with GTA02 I echo host > mode and it switches to hostmode logical16:13
DocScrutinizerhrw: I want to switch to hostmode via sysfs, not use ID pin OTG mode16:14
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DocScrutinizerhrw: see  --   does not work :-((16:16
hrwDocScrutinizer: TI drivers suxx, thats known16:16
meceachipa, cheers, it works!16:16
DocScrutinizerthat's written in ff16:16
achipamece: (Y)16:17
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meceachipa, but one thing is confusing. Shouldn't the package point at the newest? and I chose the newest version, and now it installs..?16:17
achipathe newest is 0.3.0 for me16:17
achipa(those all link to libqt4 >> 4.6.2)16:17
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achipaor is that not what you are referring to :)16:18
DocScrutinizerhrw: anyway, it's the driver that sucks and stops us from using hostmode. It's NOT the hardware16:18
mecewhoooaa.. my magical super app works :D16:18
meceit did not set background color gradient as it's supposed to though.16:19
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meceand scrolling is epically smooth too. Oh well. I'm off.16:20
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DocScrutinizerhrw: and my guess is Nokia crippled that driver intentionally and on purpose, to work around conflicts with cert, as Nokia wasn't able to comply with the whole set of features mandatory for OTG/embedded_host. So they swapped the AB-receptacle (as still labeled in schematics) by a B-type, and removed all hostmode bits from the driver16:21
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SpeedEvilIs there a published git or something repo for the kernel that you could dig into history with?16:22
summelo/ i made a new wallpaper16:22
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: no idea, EE here, not SW-maintenance16:22
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: though I'd guess there ought to be16:22
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: could you try to shed some light on this?16:24
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: I.E. ask inside Nokia what's been the true story about the whole USB-host issue16:25
Stskeepscertification, most likely16:25
hrwSpeedEvil:  are you kidding? no such tree16:25
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: quite obviously the "hw can't do it" is a fuzzy partial truth at best16:25
Stskeepssure about the connector these days?16:26
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DocScrutinizerI'm quite sure the connector is a B-type, which by definition doesn't allow hostmode16:26
DocScrutinizeraccording to specs16:27
DocScrutinizerwhat doesn't mean it would work flawlessly nevertheless16:27
DocScrutinizerwould NOT*16:27
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DocScrutinizerI.E hostmode doesn't care about the connector16:28
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korhojoahostmode wouldn't know it if it was run through clotheshanger wire16:28
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DocScrutinizerbasically yes ;-D16:28
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SpeedEvilkorhojoa: though it's the same with device mode16:31
DocScrutinizerUSB-OTG *plus* charging is extremely complex. And wont give you cert if you fail to comply completely. So I bet Nokia opted to kick the whole OTG bit, and used a B-type connector (easy simple BOM change, even footprint is identical) to put an end to issues with nagging on Nokia they must comply to this and to that and N900 isn't certifyable16:31
tybolltnokia is big enough - they could buy their way out of this16:33
summeli have an idea16:33
tybolltthey should look at microsoft/googlers comittee abuse and do the same16:33
DocScrutinizerwell, it may have saved them from another 3 months delay of rollout16:33
SpeedEvilthere is a chain of stuff16:34
SpeedEvilif you don't have a USB compliant phone.16:34
SpeedEvilThen you can't easily make a USB driver for windows16:34
DocScrutinizeryou mustn't sell in China if shit happens16:34
SpeedEvilAs one of the requirements of microsoft is that the USB device is an approved USB device16:34
summelis someone else interested in working on :)16:34
SpeedEvilAIUI16:34 is angry at you, giving you a hard time ever since16:35
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korhojoaSpeedEvil: of course.16:36
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DocScrutinizerso who's savvy enough to put that friggin kernel driver to work ?16:36
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, 6 minutes passed, looks like no one lol16:42
DocScrutinizerI'm counting on Stskeeps to get some, however unofficial, support from Nokia for that16:43
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: do me a favour and add it to the review thread so i remember it16:44
foO_hi. i am wondering, if it's possible to use the nokia n900 with a umts-only sim card. do you have any experience with that?16:45
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DocScrutinizerhell I wouldn't mind a driver that's spitting OOOPS when running into a bit that's not yet adapted to N900 idiosyncrasies. Just the one we got now simply does nothing16:45
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: review thread? the current one with your shootdown ;-D ?16:46
RST38hBoy Scouts Give Up Entirely, Offer Video Game Badge16:46
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: sure :P16:46
RST38hThe Tentacled One conquers the boyscout league16:47
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: very terse, but I hope it suffices16:52
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: and yeah, I know I suck by not delivering the paper I promised :-(16:53
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: driving to denmark tonight, still a bunch of time :)16:54
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: what? thought your visit at Nokia had ended some week or 2 ago?16:56
* DocScrutinizer looks for large trout to slap himself16:57
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: volcano ash16:58
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andrewfblackStskeeps: Just posted on your 6 Month Review thread17:01
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fralsnoobmonk3y what did you use to time startup time for healthcheck when doing those tests with/without comments?17:03
* Arkenoi_ got awfully sick of people who think cc==gcc, ld==gnu ld, x11 == xorg. it just sucks when your system differs and they do not even expect that writing the software.17:03
mgedminadd sh==bash to that list17:04
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* mgedmin glares at the Maemo SDK installer scripts17:04
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pgasie unix = gnu17:06
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DocScrutinizerunix = gnu's not unix - nice17:10
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zaheerm'The JooJoo has a nine-second boot-up time and a browser-based operating system. On Fusion Garage's website, the company addresses the issue of an application store — the distribution method favoured by Apple for its iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad — by saying JooJoo "has the largest app store in the world... it's called the internet".'17:13
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: Nokia now *has* the USBcert batch on their N900 boxes. And they have that friggin B-receptacle. It probably wouldn't hurt if they re-enabled hostmode support in kernel17:13
hrwDocScrutinizer: fun is that pr1.1.1 kernel has hostmode enabled17:13
DocScrutinizerhrw: you mean in CONFIG-*?17:14
TermanaDocScrutinizer, Wouldn't the USB certification get taken away and they would have to stop chucking the logo on the boxes?17:14
DocScrutinizerTermana: nope, for sure not17:14
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* Arkenoi_ wonders if anyone really cares about logo17:15
DocScrutinizersee above - nokia cares17:15
hrwDocScrutinizer: yes17:16
DocScrutinizerprobably Nokia is member or contractor or whatever of USB.org17:16
DocScrutinizerhrw: yes, but something seems to miss completely17:16
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andrewfblackchem|st: I guess your same chemist as t.m.o lol17:18
DocScrutinizerhrw: as mentioned before: 2011 musb_mode_store(struct device *dev, struct device_attribute *attr, const char *buf, size_t n), static DEVICE_ATTR(mode, 0644, musb_mode_show, musb_mode_store);  'echo host >mode' --> *nuttin, nada, niente*17:18
hrwDocScrutinizer: I know, I did such tests when got n90017:19
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noobmonk3yfrals: 2 methods, one a stop watch, two a command that i can't remember of the top of my head that lcuk pointed me at last week.......17:20
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DocScrutinizerhrw: if it wasn't disabled somehow (I'm not clever enough to 'gdb in wetware') you would expect it should throw an error at least17:20
fralsnoobmonk3y: ok17:20
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noobmonk3yi basically put it in places in my code to measure how long it took to run that command.... measuring startup was a bit hit and miss though17:21
fralsthat is pretty good for startup17:22
fralsusing it now to do some tweaking17:22
* andrewfblack is looking for a new phone to replace the Phone Part of his N900.17:22
noobmonk3yandrewfblack:  paper cups and string - tis an upgrade ;)17:22
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frals4742 function calls (4686 primitive calls) in 2.148 CPU seconds17:22
DocScrutinizernoobmonk3y: *.pyc, *.pyo17:22
noobmonk3yi have an e71 - but i have to admit i prefer the phone on the n900 :P17:22
* noobmonk3y turns DocScrutinizer into a pyo17:23
* noobmonk3y pulls his n93 out of the drawer.... wow thats dusty!17:23
andrewfblacknoobmonk3y: I think I'm going to give in and go windows mobile so I can atleast use my N900 as a tablet at work since we don't have cell coverage and wifi only allows windows mobile phones to use it17:23
noobmonk3yawwwwwwww :( - a guy who works for me has the new HTC - tis a nice looking phone17:24
noobmonk3yi'd miss the keyboard too much17:24
noobmonk3yciao doc17:24
noobmonk3yfrals thats not to slow :P17:24
andrewfblacknoobmonk3y: I'm considering a Tilt2 instead of the HD2 for the keyboard17:24
frals~0.5 it is importing gtk :/17:25
infobotfrals: what are you talking about?17:25
* noobmonk3y is gonna go try that on healthcheck17:25
fralsjust make sure you uncomment whatever gets you into qt mainloop :D17:25
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noobmonk3yfrals, need to be root?17:26
fralsuh no17:26
fralsyou need python-profiler package from debian thou17:26
noobmonk3y'permission denied .profile'17:26
fralsah rite17:27
noobmonk3yoh lol!17:27
fralsyou need to have write permissions to the dir17:27
noobmonk3yahhh so do it on my mydocs version17:27
fralsor chown the dir as root ;P17:27
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noobmonk3yhmmmm nothing happenned, it just ran healthcheck17:29
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fralswell you need to make it not run whatever qt's equivalent to gtk.main() is17:30
fralsdo you have a git repo or smth so i can cehck the source? :P17:30
noobmonk3ylol ignore me17:30
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noobmonk3ystill need to install python-profiler17:30
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noobmonk3yor missing17:31
fralshence you need to get it from debian ;)17:32
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noobmonk3yoh pooo17:33
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noobmonk3ywill worry about that another day17:33
fralsgod domino cookies are delicious17:33
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fralstheres a dl link right there!17:34
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* noobmonk3y is typing it in on the n90017:34
* noobmonk3y will take a little while as i'm fat fingered17:34
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fralscopy paste? ssh to device? ;P17:35
noobmonk3yat work :P17:35
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noobmonk3ywb Mece17:35
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noobmonk3yfrals - getting server doesnt exist :| - gonna go outside n get some signal!17:36
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* Noobmonk3y_ slaps frals 17:37
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fralswow quite a diff running the .pyc instead of the .py17:39
frals        Command being timed: "python"17:39
frals        User time (seconds): 2.0517:39
frals        User time (seconds): 1.7517:39
fralsfor the pyc!17:40
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* Noobmonk3y_ farts in lcuk's general direction17:40
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* Noobmonk3y_ slaps noobmonk3y with a trout......17:41
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fralsNoobmonk3y_: is what i installed on my devices at least17:41
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Noobmonk3y_incompatible it is saying17:42
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* noobmonk3y grumbles17:43
fralsusing HAM or dpkg?17:43
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fralswget it and dpkg :P17:43
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lcuk2upgrade yourself from noobmonk3y to someonwahtcompetentmonk3y17:44
lcuk2-typos ofc17:44
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* noobmonk3y grins17:45
noobmonk3yok, wget done17:45
fralsneed to be root for dpkg -i17:45
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noobmonk3ygpkg - install?17:45
noobmonk3yoh just -i17:45
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Mecehello. could ssome kind soul post a link to a fex. python scipt that does jpg2png?17:48
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SpeedEvilsomeone install netpbm17:49
SpeedEviljob done17:49
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mgedminimagemagick for the win17:51
mgedmin$ convert image.jpg image.png17:51
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mgedminfor Python you can do that with PIL17:52
Mecemgedmin, what's that?17:52
mgedminPython Imaging Library17:52
mgedminit would make sense if you were writing an app for converting images; less sense if you just need to convert one or two17:52
Mecemgedmin, well I dont want to write a program, I wanted to do wget urltoscript, python input.jpg output.png17:53
Mecethat is all. i have a jpg, i want a png.17:53
mgedminin that case imagemagick is quicker and simpler17:53
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Mecedo I have that?17:54
Surfaif you have linux, most likely yes17:55
Mecei have maemo5, duh .17:55
Surfathen most likely no :)17:55
Surfawhy do you want to do that on your phone?17:55
mgedminthere ought to be online image format conversion sites somewhere...17:56
Meceheh, perhaps I should have clarified.17:56
mgedminha! imagemagick _is_ available for maemo517:56
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mgedminfrom extras-devel only, though17:56
Surfa:O surprise17:56
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mgedminpython-imaging is in extras, otoh17:56
Mecemgedmin, yeah, i'm already installing.17:56
Mecemgedmin, devel is where I live ;)17:57
* mgedmin too17:57
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Meceouff.. 26Mb17:57
mgedminfor reference, Python version (untested): python -c "import Image;'foo.jpg').save('foo.png')"17:58
mgedminyou'd need to install python-imaging for that to work17:58
mgedmincorrection: python -c "from PIL import Image;"17:58
Mecemgedmin, wow!17:59
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Mecemgedmin, the first one worked...18:00
mgedminmaybe Maemo5 PIL packaging differs from Debian18:00
mgedminhaven't ever used PIL on maemo18:00
* Mece is in awe of mgedmin's python powers18:00
mgedmin8 years of daily use will to that to a person18:01
mgedminbesides, I looked it up in the manual ;)18:01
DocScrutinizer51Public Image Limited18:02
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nicknamewastoolostill too long18:08
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* frals slaps nickstilltoolong around a bit with a large trout18:09
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chem|standrewfblack: grats18:11
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andrewfblackchem|st: you to :)18:11
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chem|standrewfblack: I am just stuck with moving and merging for about as long as we are upgraded...18:16
chem|standrewfblack: I should do my laundry... thats less work18:16
andrewfblackchem|st: yeah I think we got our self into alot of work18:17
chem|standrewfblack: screw us ;)18:17
chem|st~blame chem|st volunteering18:17
* infobot blames chem|st volunteering (and Canada) for all the evil in the world18:17
chem|stthe and Canada is nice18:17
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andrewfblackdo N900 specific threads will fit in General Section shouldn't they be moved to a N900 Section18:22
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chem|standrewfblack: depends if they are h/w related they go N900 if software they go Applications18:24
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andrewfblackchem|st: yeah what I was thinking I just fell that any device specific threads should not be in general really18:25
chem|stif you cannot decide you may split them or leav it there18:25
chem|stnope they shouldn't18:25
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chem|stalso no Application threads should be in Maemo518:25
chem|stleave an expi date for 1 week and move what you like to or what you know to... I am more than now and then unsure where to move something18:27
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MohammadAG_wtf is it with double /home/home duplicates18:30
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chem|stMohammadAG_: where come18:30
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MohammadAG_chem|st, seen about 3 threads with full /home cause of a duplicate18:31
MohammadAG_here's one
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microlithI wonder if MS will demand patent royalties from Nokia for using Linux18:32
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chem|stmicrolith: lol18:42
chem|stMohammadAG_: is the problem pinpointed yet18:42
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fralsi love pushing a new package without updating the actual code18:44
fralsjust so i can get two releases out and make noobmonkey download them both18:44
fralsshame he isnt here atm thou!18:45
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chem|stfrals: you may try again later18:47
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MohammadAG_chem|st, no, but people are blaming openjazz18:52
MohammadAG_never checked it out18:52
chem|stI wont try!18:53
chem|stnot again doing something silly on purpose (at least not yet)18:53
MohammadAG_where the f18:55
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frals~curse gconf19:29
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, gconf !19:29
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mikki-kunwhat?! Ö.ö19:30
mikki-kunthat is just mean :(19:30
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mikki-kunWin XP admin >.<19:30
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fralslove how gconf_get_all_dirs() returns all subdirs in some random order19:33
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lcuk2frals, sorting is expensive19:34
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fralsmakes it a fuckin mess for me thou!19:35
slonopotamussurprise, fs dir listing isn't sorted either19:35
fralsso i need to try to insert my stuff, check the tree and see if it shows up before or after the other apn and then repeat until it gets in the correct psotition19:35
fralssounds like a good way to spend the afternoon \o/19:36
lcuk2either that or see if the tree has a ->sorted()" attribute19:37
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lcuk2most grids lists trees ive used in the past on numerous frameworks do19:37
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slonopotamuslcuk2: you started doing that19:37
fralslcuk2: well, the connectivity/icd guys were lazy and just used get_all_dirs() and stopped at first match19:38
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fralsso i need to reproduce that to make sure my apn isnt the first match19:38
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lcuk2frals, ahh..19:39
andrewfblackThe N900 is the only smart phone Bill Gates doesn't make money off of now, he now makes money off  Windows Mobile, iphone, or android crasy19:39
mikki-ku1meh, how did you do the Ghost-thing in freenode?19:39
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fralsmikki-ku1: /msg nickserv ghost19:40
fralsiirc :P19:40
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lcuk2amazing short video showing the dancing around euro airspace as it rebooted:
slonopotamusfrals: why do you list all subdirs if you need only one?19:41
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fralsslonopotamus: its not my fault, its icd whos doing it and i have to work around it19:42
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fralslcuk2: saw it when you linked on twitter, pretty cool :)19:43
PhonicUKhey all :)19:43
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dubziiburninating the village19:49
dubziiburninating all the people19:49
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MohammadAG_shouldn't I be able to backup to the eMMC?19:58
matthew_any1 good in physics here btw?19:59
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* trogdor burninates dubzii 20:00
dubziitnx for reminding me of that awesome vid. got the song in my head again20:01
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trogdorI'm here to help, heh20:06
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hans1hi all20:14
hans1kann jemand deutsch ?20:14
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chadiHi. I have a folder with subfolder and subfiles, and would like to copy it to another location using terminal; the same folder name exists in the target location, but I want to overwrite the common files. can anyone tell me how?20:15
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hardakercp oldfilder/* /path/to/new/folder20:18
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VDVsxor cp -r oldfolder/ new_location/20:19
chadiso cp /home/foo/* /tmp/foo/ ?20:19
chadithank you, the -r did the trick20:19
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chadianother quesion, is /home/opt important?20:20
chadiI don't see why I have a /home/opt and an /opt20:21
MohammadAG_cause it's symlinked20:21
MohammadAG_/home/opt -> /opt20:22
lcuk2/home/opt is the actual folder that /opt is linked to20:22
hardaker-bash-2.05b$ ls -ld opt20:22
hardakerlrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            9 Dec 17 04:36 opt -> /home/opt20:22
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chadiumm okay20:22
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ping20:22
DocScrutinizerlong story short? because Nokia missed to place rootfs on eMMC20:24
CutMeOwnThroatsausage inna bun?20:24
infobotsomebody said optification was a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs20:24
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* SpeedEvil has been out cutting heads off.20:24
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hardakerCutMeOwnThroat: I'll see if I can digest one; how much?20:24
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you found some of the bq24x00 regs are actually sysnodes?20:24
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* GAN900 resists replying to Nathan's inanity in Stskeeps's thread.20:24
CutMeOwnThroatonly $4 and that's cuttin me own throat20:25
SpeedEvilmodprobe bq27x00_battery20:25
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DocScrutinizerincredible, there's a module and it's not loaded - MUHAHA20:25
SpeedEvil' /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/[cv]* \20:26
DocScrutinizerhow SILLY is THAT?20:26
SpeedEvilit's not a very great module20:26
hardakerCutMeOwnThroat: btw, you might interested in this fountain that I found in japan:
SpeedEvilit just exports raw_shunt_voltage, percent, and voltage, and kelvin20:26
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SpeedEvil(so current_now is really in units of (20/3.57)mA20:27
DocScrutinizerFATAL: Module bq27x00_battery not found.20:27
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SpeedEvilmodprobe bq27x00_battery20:27
SpeedEvilIt must be in the kernel I installed20:27
* DocScrutinizer wonders what a freaking kernel SpeedEvil is using20:28
ShadowJKI wouldn't want rootfs on emmc until they come up with some sensible filesystem20:28
SpeedEvil'enhanced linux kernel for power users' - in extras devel I think20:28
SpeedEvilubifs is probably sane20:28
SpeedEvilbut with all of the error correcting shizzle ripped out20:29
ShadowJKCan you run ubifs on block devices?20:29
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SpeedEvil(06:29:16 PM) SpeedEvil: but with all of the error correcting shizzle ripped out20:30
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SpeedEvil - I will point to20:31
DocScrutinizerwhat's wrong with ext2/3 in eMMC rootfs?20:31
SpeedEvilA fail after 15Tb of writes - to one zone of the card20:31
javispedroyou're STILL on the flash paranoia topic? O.o :)20:31
SpeedEvilAlso - read the thread in - to get an idea20:32
SpeedEvilBasically - mmc/sd does probably not wear level over the whole device - but blocks of - say - 1024 eraseblocks20:32
DocScrutinizertbh that seems to be no much difference to ubifs on NAND20:32
DocScrutinizerexcept NAND is much smaller20:32
ShadowJKI don't care about wear&tear really20:33
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SpeedEvilperformance isn't noticably bad.20:33
DocScrutinizersame here20:33
SpeedEvilat least - I've never noticed an issue.20:33
ShadowJKBut I'd like a fs that avoids write amplification, because it's like hitting a rock performance-wise20:33
ShadowJKTry downloading something with gpodder, it's very noticeable20:33
SpeedEvilwrite amplification?20:33
ShadowJKfrom just having swap and media on same device20:33
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ShadowJKperformance in general :)20:34
timeless_mbpTrizt: hey did you get an updated set of strings? :)20:34
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ShadowJKso it's like 5 megabyte/s or something write performance ideally, and something like 80kbyte/s at worst.. it's like hitting a brick wall :)20:36
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Trizttimeless_mbp; yes, I installed the update and the sting is still as it was before (have also rebooted)20:37
timeless_mbpmy n900 now has access to my corporate intranet, lemme go fishing20:38
ShadowJKwhy what?20:38
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: you know address (I2C) of 24150 off top of your head?20:38
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Trizttimeless_mbp; sure20:38
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: why is it that bad?20:38
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: and why on eMMC but not on NAND?20:39
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, because the emmc is managed by the card itself, and it's stupid and optimized for sequential writes. On NAND you have raw access to the underlying flash, so you can manage it more intelligently, do partial writes and erase blocks before they're used (like TRIM on SSDs)..20:40
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DocScrutinizeraah k20:41
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GeneralAntillesVDVsx, eBook reader sounds a bit . . . optimistic. ;)20:41
ShadowJKThe underlying block size is something like 256kilobytes.. When you write a 4K block somewhere, and then write another block elsewhere, the card itself reads 256k, modifies 4k of that, erases a block, writes the 256k of data to the new block20:41
ShadowJKI don't remember the 24150 address :/20:42
luke-jrCricket is so annoying20:42
DocScrutinizeron eMMC it's worse thoufg not slower20:42
ShadowJKthat was emmc :)20:42
DocScrutinizer(addr) np20:42
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MohammadAG_move / to the eMMC, and swap to the openNAND (if that's even possible), and you shouldn't notice any slowdowns :)20:42
DocScrutinizerthought eMMC had much larger blocks20:43
MohammadAG_(theoretically, I never tried it)20:43
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ShadowJKon nand you can manage it yourself. The only operation which has to be done in 256k blocks is the erase operation, you can leave parts of it unwritten and write it later with no penalty20:43
* frals slaps lcuk2 around a bit with a large trout20:43
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SpeedEvil(06:34:11 PM) SpeedEvil: tou mean where the mmc has to do read-modify-write cycles?20:44
SpeedEvil(06:34:11 PM) SpeedEvil: oh20:44
SpeedEvil(06:34:24 PM) SpeedEvil: well - I'd say actually that's more the fault of the swap algo20:44
SpeedEvil(06:34:35 PM) SpeedEvil: swap _really_ blows in many ways on flash20:44
SpeedEvil(06:34:58 PM) SpeedEvil: It needs to be taught to write in one linear sweep basically.20:44
SpeedEvil(06:35:55 PM) SpeedEvil: As even reading and rewriting at a different place half of the blocks under a linear sweep is cheaper than single block writes20:44
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yes, that's all basically known here20:44
* SpeedEvil ponders how hard a shit proof-of-concept algorithm pretending to be nbd would be.20:44
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, sure, but we still have no solutions for it :)20:45
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, thats normal in GSoC  :D, as far we get the basic functionalities done, I'll be happy ;)20:46
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: the elementary problem is: except for swap all you frequently write to has to move to eMMC anyway, for mere avail size reasons20:46
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ShadowJKI'd actually want ~ on a different device too20:46
ShadowJKfor the database writes20:46
ShadowJKBig huge drive for software and media, one for ~ and one for swap20:47
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DocScrutinizerI'd want tmp and var on eMMC20:47
ShadowJKOr I guess someone could hire Jörn Engel so they could whip him into finishing logfs :P20:47
javispedromost maemo apps are already using the emmc for larger tmp stuff20:47
javispedroapp mgr, ...20:47
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, move them :)20:48
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: nah, igniting my bq24150 now20:48
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MohammadAG_(whatever that is :) )20:48
DocScrutinizerVBUS booster chip (also bat charge)20:48
E0xin debian having a lot repositories of diferent stage can cause a lot of problems ( example: haven testing repositories in stable install ) and i saw in mamemo for almost all "Good" tools/app you need add some testing or devel repo , this can't cause the same damage/problems that cause in debian ?20:49
ShadowJKyou using i2cget or found a kernel driver?20:49
DocScrutinizerthe little black box bme is hiding away from us20:49
E0xsorry for the off-topic20:49
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DocScrutinizerfirst I'll simply patch your script or sth like that, to read out20:50
DocScrutinizernext step - tweak it a little20:50
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ShadowJKEh, I started from scratch ;)20:50
ShadowJKbut then the crashy maemo nano ate my script :-(20:51
ShadowJKbefore I saved :-/20:51
* ShadowJK should install emacs20:51
DocScrutinizerthough I guess my c&p foo might suffice to clone a 27x00 driver for a generic 24150 driver20:51
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DocScrutinizerprobably I'll fail on compiling it, though20:52
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* frals slaps w00t_ around a bit with a large trout21:01
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: >>The slave address byte is the first byte recaddress bits are factory preset to ‘1101011’.21:05
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lirakisany more news on when an update is coming out with 1.2?21:14
ShadowJKNo, Nokia does not announce in advance21:16
sECuREmost recent speculation (AFAIK) is end of april21:16
fralsi heard november!21:17
Stskeepsi vote that pr1.2 is released yesterday21:18
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* lcuk2 also votes for the same too :D21:20
DocScrutinizerShadowJK:  Nokia-N900-02-8:/home/user/i2c# ./i2cget -y 2 0x6b 0x03    -> 0x4b    == bq24150 Rev1.121:20
* lirakis is tiring of nokia21:21
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GeneralAntillesYou guys keep talking about it, it just keeps getting pushed back.21:22
trumeealthough it is going to be released in hongkong tomorrow. i dont think nokia is quick enough to rlease PR1.2 tomorrow21:22
GeneralAntillestrumee, why not?21:22
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GeneralAntillestrumee, we don't know what's going on behind the NDAs.21:23
GeneralAntillesHeck, we usually know when a release has hit before most of Maemo Devices.21:23
GeneralAntillesThere's no reason why it couldn't be tomorrow morning.21:23
trumeewhat NDAs?21:23
Trizttrumee; you speculate on Friday?21:23
Stskeepsschizophrenia on paper21:24
timeless_mbpand it's true, people here tend to know when things are released hours or days before i find out21:24
trumeeTrizt: next week probably21:24
trumeeany idea what day of the week last firmware was released21:25
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bogie11sounds like betting21:25
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Triztthink it was tuesdat, but could be wrong, but as far as I remember it's been different week days each time21:26
andre__trumee, the last updates were on different weekdays. that won't help you :)21:26
bogie11qt unified sdk relies on pr1.2, and it was released on tuesday21:26
ShadowJKiirc one of the updates was before a long weekend iirc :)21:26
DocScrutinizeryeah, my right brain knows days before my left half, what the left half is going to think the right half is supposed to know :-P21:26
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yep21:26
jacekowskipr1.2 released?21:26
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Sceltjacekowski: PR 1.2 OUT?!?!?!21:27
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trumeeShadowJK: interesting. it is a long weekend this week in UK21:27
DocScrutinizerI *promise* I'll change chan topic as soon as pr1.2 is available21:27
DocScrutinizerplease stop to ask21:27
SceltDocScrutinizer: y? you have hot temper?21:27
TriztDocScrutinizer; so 1.2 is released? ;)21:28
ShadowJKScelt, it's fucking annoying when people ask it every minute21:28
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trumeeDocScrutinizer: better to check here than tmo :)21:28
SceltShadowJK: relax21:28
ShadowJKSo, anyone wanna create a fake PR 1.2 that bricks devices? :D21:28
SceltShadowJK: ...and do it! everybody just do it!21:28
lirakisi wonder if you be able to search for a freakin email21:28
ShadowJKOne you could link to everytime someone asks about 1.221:28
lirakis... so lame21:28
TriztI tend to get a notification on my phone when it's released21:29
itdockomg what wheres pr1.221:29
SpeedEvilTrizt:  but you sometimes have to wair hours before you get notified.21:29
trumeeis it possible to create an image of a virgin device and flash it using flasher21:29
bogie11no if you don't want go to prison ;)21:30
trumeesome HK person could create an image of the virgin phone21:30
TriztSpeedEvil; could be so, but you can run a update check every 5 minutes if it's so important to get it fast :P21:30
lirakisor maybe ... you will be able to delete an email from the popup ... instead of having to view it.... go back to inbox... and delete i there21:30
DocScrutinizerI'm starting to get angry21:30
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* Trizt wish he could be in HK21:31
trumeedoes maemo team operate from finland?21:32
GeneralAntillestrumee, Maemo Devices has locations in several countries21:33
GeneralAntillestrumee, and lots of contractors, besides.21:33
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, we wouldn't like you when you're angry?21:33
trumeeGeneralAntilles: ah i see. so release could happen any time of the day?21:34
DocScrutinizerprobably you never liked me as I'm an always angry old fart21:34
GeneralAntillestrumee, releases generally happen in the early morning Finnish time.21:34
GeneralAntillestrumee, and then progress around the globe.21:34
GeneralAntillesFor stupid, inane, reasons.21:34
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SpeedEvilAnd then several weeks later, in the UK.21:36
Stskeepswell, a good way to stop if something bad happens21:36
trumeehmm. 2 hours ahead of UK. that is good.21:37
trumeeSpeedEvil: flashing global firmware on UK devices voids warranty?21:37
SpeedEvildon't think so.21:38
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Triztis there more than one version?21:38
timeless_mbpthere are ~10 :)21:39
trumeeSpeedEvil: it is not like changing the device id. its only software change, so should be ok.21:39
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timeless_mbpanyway, i really did check21:39
Triztain't that a bit silly? wouldn't it just be simpler with one?21:39
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timeless_mbpthe difference for the uk firmware is for an incredibly pointless edge case21:39
trumeetimeless_mbp: what is that?21:40
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timeless_mbptrumee: it has something to do with deciding what numbers are emergency numbers21:41
timeless_mbpbut it doesn't really matter if you have a uk sim inserted21:41
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: heh, that's fun actually to fiddle with 2415021:41
trumeetimeless_mbp: what a waste!21:41
timeless_mbptrumee: well, it's useful for ensuring that we're able to create variants21:41
timeless_mbpbut yes, it's incredibly stupid otherwise21:41
timeless_mbpand rather unfortunate that we have customers who wait for it21:42
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trumeetimeless_mbp: so flashing global firmware wont ring back to nokia?21:42
Triztyou have customers with custom versions?21:42
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timeless_mbpTrizt: yes21:43
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timeless_mbpat least, i believe so21:43
timeless_mbpwell for some definition of 'custom\21:43
trumeetimeless_mbp: people were changing n95 device id to unbrand and that used to alert nokia. guess flasher doesnt dothat.21:43
DocScrutinizerUK vodafone, no?21:43
TriztI guess my operator has one.... they seem to have some strange things on every phone they sell21:43
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: right21:43
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trumeeso any idea if sip/skype video calling is supported?21:55
trumeein pr1.221:55
MohammadAG_No, not supported afaik21:56
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trumeeMohammadAG_: what was the changelog about videocalling then?21:56
lirakisjust google  ??21:56
lirakisaka google video ?21:56
MohammadAG_trumee, Gtalk21:57
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trumeeMohammadAG_: awww!21:57
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chadiVote for skype not connecting through a proxy bug; - I hope it's not a WONTFIX for maemo5 :(21:58
povbotBug 10062: Skype doesn't use network connection proxy settings21:58
* MohammadAG_ marks as WONFIX21:58
MohammadAG_jk :P21:58
trumeesip support is pathetic in N90021:58
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trumeeandroid is better for sip21:58
lirakistrumee,  wha???21:58
Triztboot android when you want to sip ;)21:59
trumeefunny nokia developed their own sip stack but left out features21:59
lirakismy G1 did not do sip integration half as well as N90021:59
chadinow andre shows up and tells me: management decided that this is a WONTFIX for Maemo5, but this will be addressed in Meego, yay21:59
lirakisandroid required a seperate sip client21:59
trumeei need MWI support21:59
andre__chadi: you're welcome :-P22:00
trumeethe sofia sip library supports it but nokia devs are too lazy to build it into n90022:00
chadiandre__ good day, sir!22:00
andre__chadi, in which ticket did I do so before? :)22:00
lcukquestion: how do i disable totally ALL call functionality from my n900 - sometimes i want to give jake the phone and  he keeps calling people22:00
andre__heja chadi  :)22:00
jacekowskilcuk: emm, remove sim?22:01
chadiandre__ :
povbotBug 9855: Cannot delete fields (e.g. phone numbers) added by a Skype account22:01
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* ioeee hi @all o/22:01
MohammadAG_lcuk, manually install PR1.2 packages, phone will segfault with "Internal error"22:01
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lirakisis the android on n900 project dead ??22:02
trumeeandroid used a third party sip library and have MWI support22:02
Stskeepsthere was ever one?22:02
MohammadAG_even 911 won't work22:02
Triztlcuk; tried "Cellular Modem Control Buttons"?22:02
chadiandre__ : if skype does all the work for you, why delay the fixes for Meego? I don't understand this management decision.22:02
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trumeeNokia have always sucked at MWI support. was crap in N95 even22:02
lcukMohammadAG_, i have pr1.2..22:03
lcukTrizt, mm ?22:03
andre__chadi, this is a Contacts issue. It is not a Skype issue.22:03
lcukjacekowski, removing sim does not help when i just want to give it him for a few minutes to play with22:04
Triztshould make the n900 to loose it's ability to call22:04
MohammadAG_lcuk, manually install PR1.1.1 packages then22:04
andre__chadi, and "delaying the fixes for MeeGo" implies that code has been written yet. why do you assume that?22:04
chadiandre__: Oh, thanks for pointing that out. But anyway, why not fix it in Maemo5 since you are planning to fix it anyway :(22:04
VDVsxMohammadAG_, I think that's normal since you don't have access to all the packages that are needed22:04
andre__chadi: how different are the codebases between Maemo5 calendar and Maemo6 calendar, and how much effort does it take to apply a fix to both codebases?22:05
andre__(I don't know myself. But that's my guess.)22:05
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chadiandre__: I'd be happy to fix that myself :)22:06
MohammadAG_VDVsx, I only installed some packages to prove the keyboard doesn't go into portrait mode22:06
MohammadAG_and to see the portrait browser :)22:06
MohammadAG_VDVsx, when's the next testing marathon?22:06
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VDVsxchadi, maemo calendar is closed source22:07
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povbotBug 9977: Hardware T&K lock switch must be used twice to unlock device when keyboard open22:08
MohammadAG_that's normal behavior afaik22:09
chadiandre__: sorry if i was being offensive22:09
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MohammadAG_since the screen doesn't actually get locked when the keyboard is open22:09
andre__chadi, no, you weren't :)22:09
MohammadAG_touch the screen and it would work22:09
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MohammadAG_hey johnsq22:18
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luke-jranyone know how to change ESN on a Samsung phone and if doing so will let me activate the new ESN?22:35
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BusterBWhat websites u guys using for an accurate speed test from the microB browser?22:40
trumeedont like that flash based speedtest.net22:41
BusterBIm using, but it seems like gives me slower results22:41
BusterByeah Im guessing cuz of flash22:42
SpeedEvilyou mean a bandwidth test?22:42
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BusterBIm getting 2-3 mbits from mobile, but only 1 mbit from speedtest22:43
SpeedEvilThe app 'speedy' works well for me22:43
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SpeedEvilor wgetting the kernel from kernel.org22:43
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SpeedEvilthough speedy does only measure downspeed22:44
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styleis there working calendar synchronizing tool for n900?22:44
styleerming doesn't work like it should:/22:45
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BusterBim getting slower results with speedy22:48
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SpeedEvilwhat internet are you on?22:50
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BusterBtmobile usa22:51
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BusterBI know tethering will prolly bring me the most accurate, but I wanna know what would be good w/o my laptop with me22:52
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MohammadAG_BusterB, works best23:01
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BusterBMohammadAG_: okay cool23:03
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MohammadAG_Goodbye palm, I've never owned any of your devices so you won't be missed here XD
SpeedEvilI have a palmpilot23:17
SpeedEvilit was OK.23:17
MohammadAG_they weren't popular here anyways :)23:17
SpeedEvilBetter handwriting recognition than the n90023:17
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MohammadAG_but I expected apple to buy them23:17
MohammadAG_I see what you did there23:17
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lcukSpeedEvil, isnt the HK n900 version coming with asian HWR?23:18
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lcukand could that be used as the basis for english variation23:18
lcuki hope it will :)23:19
MohammadAG_lcuk, yes, it has hwr23:19
* SpeedEvil ponders a phone with a 30000 key keyboard.23:19
wazd_e63heya maemo23:20
SpeedEvilWhen you slide the keyboard out, you have to be careful in moderate winds.23:20
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MohammadAG_hey wazd_e6323:24
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lcukdoh wondering why my 900 was getting warm when its sat idle23:38
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lcukuntil i realised its sat covering the exhaust from my laptop23:38
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Macerso. any word on when a portrait desktop will be added?23:39
* Macer hdies23:39
Macerhides too23:39
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JaffaMacer: Sometime between now and the heat-death of the universe. Maybe.23:40
javispedroI already feel shame for some HP employees23:40
javispedrothe countdown to bankruptcy has already started!23:41
Ken-YoungAll shame went away when they spun off Agilent.23:41
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javispedrocuriously enough, they already had 3com. Only missing for them is to buy ACCESS and they can get all of the PalmPilot team remains into one roof again!23:43
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Ken-Youngjavispedro, THen they could have broken it up, and put it back together, and broken it up... in the true Palm management style.23:44
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wazd_e63Woowoo, spb, here I go :)23:49
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wazd_e63omg, HP buys Palm23:53
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Ken-YoungMaybe we'll finally get the Folio!23:53
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wazd_e63say it to the geek 10 years ago and he'll commit suicide :)23:53
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wazd_e63Sony could do it, to ressurect their awesome pda series23:55
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wazd_e63can't understand all that buzz across webos though23:57
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wazd_e63Os that can run 20 web pages at once? :)23:57
MohammadAGme neither23:57
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javispedroIt is my second favorite OS -- were I to be banned from #maemo I would move to WebOS =)23:58
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wazd_e63Javispedro: what about wince?(23:59
javispedrowinwhat? never again :P23:59

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