IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-04-27

DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: and there http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ident?i=musb_platform_set_mode I'm lost :-/	00:00
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summel	where can i get an sdk with the current version of qt libs?	00:02
pupnik	i think you download em	00:03
summel	no the qt in the sdk is newer then the qt on n900	00:03
summel	so my application does not run on the device only in the sdk :(	00:03
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dottedmag	Is there way to install 1.1 SDK?	00:07
summel	i hope so :(	00:07
* dottedmag should have back up /scratchbox from the last time		00:08
dottedmag	oh well	00:08
* DocScrutinizer feels headache coming, and heads out for a large beer		00:09
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lbt	X-Fade: making a xen image FYI	00:10
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summel	or can i dongrade the qt packages from the sdk somehow?	00:11
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asj	dottedmag: I thought I saw some instructions titled something like "how to compile for devices on pr1.1 with the SDK"	00:15
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summel	asj: where where where? :d	00:15
asj	dottedmag: you'll have to google for it though, it was a blog post a week or two ago	00:15
summel	:/	00:15
dottedmag	asj: manual dpkg-shlibdeps override?	00:16
PhonicUK	Hey all :)	00:16
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DocScrutinizer	anybody can tell me if kernel is compiled with CONFIG_USB_MUSB_OTG and/or CONFIG_USB_MUSB_HDRC_HCD ?	00:17
asj	dottedmag: just saw the headline, didn't read it. couldn't be something like apt-get install libqt =4.5.3 or what ever the syntax/packages are...	00:17
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dottedmag	well, hope they still have the packages in repo.	00:17
asj	DocScrutinizer: if you get OTG working, and find proper OTG cables that work let me know :)	00:18
DocScrutinizer	lol	00:18
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DocScrutinizer	you bet you'll hear about it	00:18
asj	DocScrutinizer: we've found otg cables, but they were not wired right	00:18
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DocScrutinizer	OTG won't work with N900	00:19
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asj	DocScrutinizer: this wasnt an n900 actually	00:19
DocScrutinizer	wrong connector (B-type, instead of AB)	00:19
DocScrutinizer	only chance is to force USB into host mode via software (echo foo > /sys/bar)	00:20
DocScrutinizer	that's not OTG though	00:20
asj	no one does it, so it's a pita from what I can tell	00:20
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* DocScrutinizer NEEEDS a BEEER		00:21
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PhonicUK	can /var/lib/apt go in MyDocs?	00:21
DocScrutinizer	reading USB or tty kernel sources always gives my bad headache	00:22
DocScrutinizer	PhonicUK: prolly	00:22
asj	PhonicUK: I've tried it and can't recommend it	00:22
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PhonicUK	how comeasj?	00:22
PhonicUK	*come asj?	00:22
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asj	PhonicUK: I'm trying to remember...during upgrade I think at one point it unmounted everything...I remember fixing things by hand half way through	00:24
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MohammadAG	night everyone	00:24
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PhonicUK	ah	00:24
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asj	PhonicUK: it was fixable though via usb ms...so it wasn't horrible...	00:25
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asj	or terminal or something	00:25
DocScrutinizer	asj: system upgrade is a different thing, yes	00:25
Mace_N900	seriously.. if i knew the n900 was going to be this awesome i would have bought one right when it came out	00:26
Mace_N900	it is beyond great	00:26
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* PhonicUK <3 his N900 too :)		00:28
PhonicUK	developing for it is fun too ^_^	00:28
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SpeedEvil	Mace_N900: I agree.	00:30
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Mace_N900	heh	00:30
Mace_N900	i held off because of the touchbook	00:31
Mace_N900	i had to make sure it didnt suck	00:31
Mace_N900	haha	00:31
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SpeedEvil	looking good for 3 days on wifi - which is nice.	00:31
PhonicUK	has anyone played Q2 on their N900?	00:31
* SpeedEvil is doing rundown test on wifi ATM		00:31
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noobmonk3y	Khertan, where does the app manager read the icon from? my healthcheck icon has turned into a blue square again :\|	00:32
SmokeyD	cool! i got my new nokia n900 running xchat	00:32
Macer	SpeedEvil: yeah. the battery life is amazing	00:32
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SpeedEvil	SmokeyD: xchat is nice	00:32
SpeedEvil	I only have 10 small issues with it.	00:32
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Macer	10 small issues? heh	00:32
* PhonicUK uses irssi over ssh :D		00:32
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Macer	ssh kind of sucks when you don't have good reception over 3G	00:33
Macer	xchat is better for the latency	00:33
SpeedEvil	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38927&page=2	00:33
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PhonicN900	Macer, I mean that im ssh'ing into my N900 :P	00:33
PhonicN900	from another machine	00:33
Macer	haha	00:33
Macer	oh	00:33
Macer	yeah i guess that works too	00:33
summel	PhonicN900: developing is a nightmare for me atm :(	00:33
Macer	now that i think about it.. does the n900 have screen? :)	00:33
Macer	haha	00:33
PhonicN900	summel, how come?	00:34
PhonicN900	eeh 1 mo ill check	00:34
chem\|st	Macer: sure	00:34
SpeedEvil	Macer: when the largest of them is pretty much 'the scrollbar is the wrong colour' - yes - I'd say minor	00:34
PhonicN900	Package screen is not available, but is referred to by another package.	00:34
Macer	chem\|st: i didn't thin kabout it	00:34
summel	PhonicN900: the sdk has a newer qt (general pr1.2) then is availeable on the device itself, so i cant run my qt apps on my n900 :(	00:34
SpeedEvil	screen is in the tools repo	00:34
Macer	there's a tools repo?!	00:34
Macer	haha	00:34
Macer	wtf	00:34
Macer	i'm still using the stock repos	00:34
PhonicN900	summel, Windows or Linux host?	00:34
Macer	what's up with koffice	00:34
summel	linux	00:34
PhonicN900	I'm using MADDE + Qt Creator	00:35
Macer	someone showed me a youtube thing about it	00:35
Macer	it looks great	00:35
PhonicN900	which works awesome for developing Qt apps	00:35
Macer	i need to dig up my damn su8w	00:35
summel	the qt app itself works... it also works in the sdk...	00:35
Macer	bbl	00:35
summel	but on the device i only get symbol lookup errors :(	00:35
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asj	summel: I'm guessing it wasn't supposed to be a problem for this long, so let's hope it's fixed sooner than later	00:36
haltdef_	any reason the n900 wouldn't charge from one of those portable battery packs?	00:36
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summel	asj: i hope so -_-	00:37
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chem\|st	haltdef_: I couldnt get mine charging on a bare usb powersupply and on a car usb powerhost	00:37
summel	thats the only app i need to make the n900 a general laptop replacement for me :o	00:37
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: that's as the D+ and D- are not shorted - it's not a recent app	00:37
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SpeedEvil	chem\|st: recent charger	00:37
PhonicUK	Macer, update your SDK sysroot using files from the device?	00:38
SmokeyD	is there a way to mount sshfs in maemo?	00:38
haltdef_	hm	00:38
PhonicUK	eeh, not macer - summel	00:38
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: so I need an adaptor to shorten D+-?	00:38
SpeedEvil	chem\|st: or hack the PSU	00:39
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: after a lot of (half)educated guessing and handwaving, I'd say we have a kernel that's built without CONFIG_USB_MUSB_HDRC_HCD and is using http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/omap2430.c , where in line 86 we need a patch to tell (free-)BME to switch bq24150 to boostmode	00:39
chem\|st	well one is about 6 month old and the other a few weeks...	00:39
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: shiny	00:40
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: what's 'shiny' meaning?	00:40
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: isn't that simply the 5vusb gen thogh?	00:40
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DocScrutinizer	err, please elaborate	00:40
DocScrutinizer	(sorry, my headache)	00:40
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SpeedEvil	err - great	00:41
* noobmonk3y is happy n relaxed		00:41
noobmonk3y	healthcheck is back up and working again!	00:42
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: bq24150 would supply VBUS-5V. The logical hostmode should be handled by musb_hdrc_hcd if enabled at compile time - AIUI	00:42
SmokeyD	is there a way to copy-paste text from my browser to another app?	00:42
DocScrutinizer	yes	00:42
t-tan	default kernel config: CONFIG_USB_MUSB_HDRC=y	00:43
Dassu	yes	00:43
DocScrutinizer	swipe from left into screen	00:43
SpeedEvil	ah	00:43
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DocScrutinizer	t-tan: darn - so much for my handwaving :-/	00:43
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t-tan	and CONFIG_USB_MUSB_OTG=y	00:45
DocScrutinizer	eeek	00:45
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DocScrutinizer	well, any idea why a "echo host >/sys/bus/pl/devices/musb_hdrc/mode" doesn't do anything* not even in dmesg?	00:46
t-tan	many poor souls have already read all kernels sources trying to find a secret line to enable USB host...	00:46
DocScrutinizer	I'm rather sure there's no magic line to enable it, I rathe guess there's some lines missing or wrong	00:47
t-tan	it is more likely to find a driver for intergalactic Wifi	00:48
jaska	have they tried burning incense in a sacred nokia rubber boot?	00:48
DocScrutinizer	c'mon we have an idea how it should work - no?	00:48
DocScrutinizer	so we probably could find the locations where things start to fail	00:49
* noobmonk3y slaps frals around a bit with a dolphin....		00:49
DocScrutinizer	NO OTG, just a very simple switchover to hostmode, like on every stupic x86 desktop	00:50
ShadowJK	does it work even on reference omap3 boards I wonder :-)	00:50
DocScrutinizer	if that means we need to nuke the musb_hdrc kernel driver and instead of that load a ohci or whatever - fine, be it.	00:51
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DocScrutinizer	there's adriver talking to 1704 PHY to do gadget	00:52
DocScrutinizer	we really just want to change the logical protocol first instance	00:52
DocScrutinizer	that can't be a mission impossible	00:52
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DocScrutinizer	musb looks really really ugly, see the long comment about what doesn't work, at top of http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/usb/musb/musb_core.c	00:54
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DocScrutinizer	so maybe we should completely nuke this shit, and go back to proven good drivers - I seem to remember on diablo/N810 we had no musb_wnkr	00:55
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DocScrutinizer	49 * NOTE: the original Mentor code here was pretty much a collection	00:56
DocScrutinizer	50 * of mechanisms that don't seem to have been fully integrated/working	00:56
DocScrutinizer	51 * for any Linux kernel version. This version aims at Linux 2.6.now,	00:56
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DocScrutinizer	OTG support is 40 * in the works.	00:57
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t-tan	according to http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=489589 it's definitely also a hardware issue. you need workaround poorly designed HW	00:59
t-tan	did you check the Driod sources?	00:59
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SpeedEvil	t-tan: Forcing the ID pin is irrelevant	00:59
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SpeedEvil	t-tan: The ID pin is only hooked up to the CPU to tell the software what mode the pin is in.	01:00
SpeedEvil	t-tan: the CPU then configures the USB chip appropriately	01:00
pupnik	do android phones have an upgrade path to maemo? :)	01:00
DocScrutinizer	t-tan: see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=583165#post583165 ff	01:00
pupnik	you figure since they have a linux kernel, the drivers ae out there...	01:00
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t-tan	I still believe that a manual switch to host mode is possible but I don't believe it's just setting one register or so	01:02
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: t-tan: sorry, I really need my beer and Aspirin now. BBl	01:03
SpeedEvil	night	01:03
t-tan	g'night.	01:03
t-tan	happy hostmode dreams! :)	01:03
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PhonicN900	offigo	01:04
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PhonicUK	hereiam	01:04
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Macer	i'm watching elizabeth the golden age	01:05
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Macer	it's like watching the tudors with a queen	01:05
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: could you please drop me the link to your bq27200 script again?	01:09
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* PhonicUK misses pushd and popd		01:11
* d14 has finished metal slug2 x)		01:11
PhonicUK	maybe i could write a handful of scripts that emulate their function	01:11
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: you're asleep?	01:12
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: yes	01:12
DocScrutinizer	aah, k	01:12
SpeedEvil	umm	01:12
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SpeedEvil	http://qkwv.com/bq.tar.gz	01:14
SpeedEvil	Though I'm now looking at the bq27x00_battery driver	01:15
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trem	nite all, sweet dreams	01:17
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crashanddie	BTW, if any of you get to see "Don't tell my mother that I'm in North Korea" -- watch. Definitely an excellent show, it's amazing the amount of stuff they were allowed to film, and how many american products are available in specific supermarkets	01:28
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crashanddie	Also amazing, the fact that people are so hungry that they're using the gardens around their buildings to grow food, there are no petrol stations 50km from Pyong Yang (well, nearly), and electricity goes out every 3 hours -- very good documentary	01:30
PhonicUK	nn everyone	01:30
SpeedEvil	http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm	01:30
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Ken-Young	Lucky North Korean astronomers!	01:31
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Macer	hm. i didn't even think about it but	01:49
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Macer	is there an app that works with gtalk video and the phone's front cam?	01:49
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: what's been the tale about bme - when killed or simplz sigstopped?	01:49
DocScrutinizer51	gackkk	01:50
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DocScrutinizer51	there' been a kezmapper app somebodz told? anz idae bout thename?	01:51
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Disconnect	wow and he's normally sow ... intelligible.	01:54
SpeedEvil	key http://maemo.org/packages/view/ukeyboard/?	01:54
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Macer	oh	01:56
Macer	i guess it's just supposed to work huh?	01:56
Macer	awesome	01:56
Macer	i need to find someone to try to video chat with	01:56
lbt	night all	01:57
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: ukbd - nah. this pkg provides additional osk lazouts for arabic, klingon, ferengi...	01:58
chem\|st	Macer: what client?	01:58
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Macer	those crazy spaniards	02:02
Macer	chem\|st: never mind	02:03
Macer	i guess you can do it with telepathy	02:03
Macer	i need to test it out :)	02:03
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Macer	those damn spaniards	02:10
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zgoldberg	X-Fade: ping	02:29
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crashanddie	sup all	03:05
crashanddie	Stskeeps: last night, as i lay in bed (I know this is starting to sound pretty creepy), I had a very important question to ask you.	03:06
crashanddie	I know johnx came into the whole thing, it was more of an idea to submit to you	03:06
crashanddie	And that choice of words is even worse	03:06
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crashanddie	However, this morning I was unable to remember a single thing.	03:06
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* SpeedEvil puts away his flashy pen, in the knowledge of a job well done.		03:22
ds3	you've put a pen inside a uSD?	03:22
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* SpeedEvil points at crashanddie.		03:23
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lcuk	crashanddie, you were thinking of johnxs' wii	03:24
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Mace_N900	yawn	03:25
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Mace_N900	batterygraph is qt	03:29
Mace_N900	:)	03:29
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pupnik_	has anyone tried checking-in to a flight with a boarding pass displayed as 2Sd barcode on tablet/n900?	03:36
pupnik_	2D	03:37
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ptl	puphome: I didn't, but I tried mbarcode with 2D barcodes on my taxes and it did not recognize them.	03:41
puphome	im gonna try tomorrow	03:42
puphome	i heard a finnish company sends 2d barcodes to cellphones for concert tickets	03:42
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: don't forget to put your sunglasses on	03:43
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* crashanddie points at SpeedEvil		03:46
crashanddie	lcuk: he wii	03:46
crashanddie	erhm, lemme try that again	03:46
crashanddie	lcuk: his wii?	03:46
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Termana	good morning	03:48
summel	o/	03:49
crashanddie	?	03:49
crashanddie	morning Termana, how are you today/	03:49
Termana	Doing alright thanks crashanddie, how about yourself?	03:49
crashanddie	pretty good, back at work after the long weekend	03:50
Termana	I've never asked - what is your job? (Besides part time IRC nazi :P lol)	03:51
DocScrutinizer	full time doorkeeper	03:52
summel	who else just lost the game? :)	03:52
DocScrutinizer	the keykeeper	03:53
crashanddie	Termana: I'm leaving this job on Friday :)	03:53
crashanddie	Termana: I'm a security expert for banks and governments	03:54
summel	DocScrutinizer: gatekeeper and keymaster?	03:54
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DocScrutinizer	prolly, yes	03:54
Termana	crashanddie: Ah ok, relatively nice job I assume. Why are you leaving your current workplace though?	03:54
crashanddie	Because Australia isn't really working out for me	03:55
crashanddie	My job in London was amazing, this one is pretty meh, so I'm moving back to France	03:55
tgalal	is it possible to launch media player to play a video from terminal ??	03:55
Termana	Eh, I didn't even know you were here in australia - what state are you in currently?	03:56
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pupnik_	tgalal: mplayer works good for that	03:56
tgalal	pupnik_, mplayer is available for maemo 5?	03:56
SpeedEvil	yes	03:57
DocScrutinizer	tgalal: and there's been a thread on tmo, about how to achieve this for mediaplayer by a dbus call	03:57
SpeedEvil	mplayer may be slower or jerkier for some content, as it's not GPU accellerated	03:57
tgalal	so it's not possible with the stock mediaplayer	03:58
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS#dbus-send-media-play	04:00
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SpeedEvil	it must be - zoutube does it	04:00
tgalal	DocScrutinizer thanks !	04:00
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pupnik_	~scoobysnack DocScrutinizer	04:03
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tgalal	I want to cancel a yellow notification that requires clicking screen to hide.. but using shell command.	04:18
tgalal	dbus does that too?	04:18
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crashanddie	Termana: QLD	04:35
crashanddie	tgalal: dbus-send --dest=com.nokia.mediaplayer /com/nokia/mediaplayer com.nokia.mediaplayer.mime_open string:"file:///$1"	04:36
crashanddie	http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Open_file_in_media_player	04:36
tgalal	crashanddie, yeah got it, thanks a lot	04:37
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tgalal	ok now I need to send a fake screen tap	04:44
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crashanddie	tgalal: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/xresponse/	04:47
luke-jr	slightly off-topic here, but not sure where a better place to ask is: if I need a dirt cheap cell phone and service, what would you guys suggest?	04:47
crashanddie	google seems to be working pretty well	04:47
crashanddie	luke-jr: country might be important	04:48
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luke-jr	USA	04:49
tgalal	crashanddie, I'm already googling.. But I was only searching on how to do it via dbus. thanks alot	04:49
crashanddie	tgalal: I'm afraid DBUS won't allow for this	04:49
luke-jr	crashanddie: when has Google ever worked for service deals?	04:49
crashanddie	luke-jr: wasn't aimed at you	04:49
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crashanddie	luke-jr: can't help for the US though	05:07
crashanddie	luke-jr: can't you just walk in a shop and get a $20 phone with $10 credit?	05:07
crashanddie	luke-jr: that's what I usually do when I land in a new country	05:07
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ds3	if you can find a $20 no contract phone...	05:12
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crashanddie	found it in the UK, Australia, France, Belgium, Italy, Germany, and Ukraine	05:12
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crashanddie	they're usually very low-end sagem or what have you	05:13
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crashanddie	the battery lasts just enough to use up the credit when calling international	05:13
crashanddie	and then you just throw it away	05:13
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ds3	overhear some carriers want $25 for the SIM!	05:13
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crashanddie	overheard?	05:14
ds3	overheard or overhead?	05:14
crashanddie	overear?	05:14
luke-jr	crashanddie: I doubt it	05:15
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ds3	it is $25 to buy the sim and you have to put credits on it	05:19
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crashanddie	luke-jr: t-mobile nokia 1661 prepaid = $19.99 + $10 recharge = $29.99	05:40
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pupnik_	the last time my hard drive was completely organized was 1991	05:46
crashanddie	pupnik_: when it was empty?	05:48
luke-jr	crashanddie: huh?	05:48
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luke-jr	oh	05:48
luke-jr	yeah, low up-front, but really expensive per-minute	05:49
crashanddie	well that gives you 30 minutes of credit	05:49
luke-jr	33 cents per	05:49
crashanddie	so 33c per minute	05:49
luke-jr	looking at Boost Mobile... only 10c ea	05:49
crashanddie	Well, we all know US networks suck anymore :P Don't go there	05:49
pupnik_	about 200MB of files	05:50
luke-jr	I'm thinking grab a $10 iDEN phone off ebay and use Boost...	05:50
pupnik_	we need scorched3d on n900	05:51
luke-jr	there, I bid on a decent-sounding used phone... XD	05:51
luke-jr	if I'm lucky I can tether it to my N810	05:51
rm_you	why you need a new phone? :P	05:51
rm_you	n900 break?	05:52
luke-jr	rm_you: I never had a N900	05:52
rm_you	aww :(	05:52
rm_you	sadness	05:52
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luke-jr	and it's not worth more than $200 to me	05:52
luke-jr	anyhow, I just need a cheap phone+service for my wife	05:52
rm_you	i'm stuck with G1 now :/	05:52
luke-jr	if I can pair it with my N810, that's just a nice bonus	05:52
rm_you	it's ok, but slow and the screen is comparatively a joke	05:52
pupnik_	lower res?	05:53
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, so sad for you.	05:54
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, if the Nexus One sucks as much as I've found it does, I can't imagine how bad the G1 is. :P	05:54
rm_you	lol	05:54
rm_you	pupnik_: yeah much	05:54
rm_you	browsing the internet on it is...	05:54
rm_you	also a joke	05:54
rm_you	whatever you want from the internet, better hope theres an app for it	05:55
rm_you	wikipedia: app	05:55
rm_you	facebook: app	05:55
rm_you	imdb: app	05:55
rm_you	it runs facebook mobile decent but is very sad really	05:55
rm_you	spoiled on n900 :(	05:56
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GeneralAntilles	Haha	05:57
GeneralAntilles	Nexus One is nigh unusable	05:57
GeneralAntilles	I dunno why people seem to love it.	05:57
rm_you	what's unusable about it in particular?	05:59
rm_you	web browsing slow?	05:59
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GeneralAntilles	Well, the whole Android thing is a bugger	06:00
GeneralAntilles	But the hardware isn't great	06:00
GeneralAntilles	OLED, in particular, makes any extended text viewing impossible for me.	06:00
GeneralAntilles	So, FBReader is right out.	06:00
GeneralAntilles	Capacitive makes me want to break things.	06:00
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rm_you	lol	06:01
pupnik_	why is oled problematic?	06:01
pupnik_	for viewing? hi btw GeneralAntilles	06:02
GeneralAntilles	pupnik_, the pixels seem to be non-square	06:02
GeneralAntilles	Or at least they have the appearance of that	06:02
GeneralAntilles	Which makes font edges really ugly	06:02
GeneralAntilles	Even at high PPI.	06:02
pupnik_	they do look more pixelated iirc	06:03
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GeneralAntilles	It's also super oversaturated	06:04
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GeneralAntilles	You think maemo.org orange makes your eyes bleed on a desktop LCD	06:04
GeneralAntilles	Just wait until you see it on the Nexus One!	06:04
pupnik_	saturation we can fix with X	06:05
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pupnik_	i think	06:05
rm_you	lol	06:05
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crashanddie	hey z4chh, howzit going?	07:09
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RST38h	http://gizmodo.com/5524604/real-goddamn-flying-nazi-soldiers-with-jet-packs	07:15
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crashanddie	and there goes tmo	08:05
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Macer	hm	08:10
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Macer	where is information on running koffice on the n900?	08:12
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Macer	i'm looking at the kde forums and well.. :)	08:12
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Gh0sty	good ... well morning for me :p	08:15
Gh0sty	evening for most of you i guess? :)	08:15
Macer	seems the koffice project that is in progress is a viewer only	08:15
Macer	:/	08:15
timeless_mbp	google docs should work today :)	08:16
Gh0sty	lol you want to run a full koffice on the n900? :o	08:16
LuciusMare	Heh, wow, what process takes 100% of cpu and drains the battery from "fully charged" to "can't even turn on" within an hour?	08:16
LuciusMare	in offline mode	08:16
Gh0sty	anyone know if theres a solution around syncing with mail for exchange problems?	08:16
Gh0sty	seems after a while my phone cant sync anymore with google calendar	08:17
Gh0sty	and I dont seem to be the only one with the problem	08:17
Gh0sty	some say it's if you add things to the phones calendar that it does not want to sync anymore? :/	08:17
Macer	timeless_mbp: ugh	08:18
Macer	again with the google docs :)	08:18
Macer	what if i don't want to use google?	08:18
* Macer hides		08:18
timeless_mbp	Macer: hey, i work on one of the best mobile web browsers in the world	08:18
* Macer checks his blinds		08:18
timeless_mbp	well, you could try ms office for the web	08:18
LuciusMare	:o	08:18
Macer	wtf ever happened to quickoffice? it worked great on my n95 :)	08:18
Macer	although.. i wanted something that used opendoc format	08:19
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RST38h	Lucius: Tracker?	08:19
Macer	i usually use openoffice	08:19
Macer	doesn't easydebian come with openoffice? :)	08:19
RST38h	Gh0sty: Have you considered using google.com for finding an answer to your question?	08:19
RST38h	Gh0sty: Or maybe searching for "exchange" at talk.maemo.org?	08:19
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Macer	i remember someone saying that you can get openoffice going .. but i'd rather have a portable koffice if it is better for the screen	08:20
Gh0sty	RST38h: I did but found a lot of similar problems but not really a solution ... (yet)	08:20
RST38h	Macer: Koffice is kinda unusable on Maemo	08:20
Macer	but it seems like they are only doing the viewer only thing.. why do i feel androided? :)	08:20
RST38h	Macer: too slow	08:20
Macer	RST38h: the native maemo ver they are working on?	08:20
RST38h	Macer: yea	08:20
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Macer	i've been looking around and it seems like it's a viewer only so far :)	08:20
RST38h	Macer: Apparently, it starts swapping and you know what happens next...	08:21
Macer	unless the forums i'm reading are old	08:21
Macer	RST38h: haha	08:21
RST38h	It is a viewer, yes	08:21
Macer	the phone crashes and starts to melt	08:21
timeless_mbp	based on the pictures i've seen internally	08:21
Macer	and the included death ray stops working :)	08:21
timeless_mbp	i don't think it's going to always be a viewer	08:21
RST38h	Macer: Nah, it does not crash	08:21
timeless_mbp	but making a viewer is a reasonable starting point	08:21
timeless_mbp	reducing scope is a good thin	08:21
timeless_mbp	g	08:21
Macer	timeless_mbp: yeah they say they are going to work on making it functional	08:21
RST38h	Macer: But it hangs the system hard, for dozens of seconds at a time	08:21
Macer	is abiword on a repo?	08:21
RST38h	yes	08:21
RST38h	abiword is actually more usable	08:22
Macer	it's a little more lightweight	08:22
Macer	i need a word processor and cups on my phone :)	08:22
Macer	haha	08:22
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Macer	but then again. i'm sure most maemo apps wouldn't have cups support :/	08:22
RST38h	who needs cups support...	08:22
Macer	i remember the only way to get it working on my n810 was to use pb kde 3.5	08:23
Trizt	RST38h; xprint instead?	08:23
Macer	RST38h: i do :-P	08:23
Macer	haha	08:23
crashanddie	I'd say you need a real document viewer, but hardly a word processor	08:23
Macer	i want to print to my laser printer straight from my phone :)	08:23
crashanddie	but then again, you already have a PDF viewer, which accounts for 90% of what people need to do on the go	08:23
crashanddie	If you are serious about editing .doc files on the go, get a laptop.	08:23
Macer	crashanddie: my n95 had bt printing	08:23
Macer	and quickoffice	08:23
crashanddie	And you can get BT to USB converters	08:24
Macer	i typed an entire term paper using my su8w (hung over) in like an hour	08:24
Macer	haha	08:24
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Macer	plus... i'd rather carry a laptop in my pocket instead of in a bag ;)	08:24
crashanddie	Macer: I think that really is an exception rather than the rule	08:24
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Gh0sty	most threads say like syncing works for a while and then stops working but no realy answers to why or how :(	08:24
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Macer	crashanddie: yeah but.. why bother carrying around a netbook when you don't have to?	08:25
crashanddie	Gh0sty: because MfE is broken	08:25
Gh0sty	(and it does not look google calendar specific)	08:25
Macer	i never understood why this wasn't looked into more as far as "smartphones" go	08:25
Macer	the elimination of the netbook :)	08:25
crashanddie	Macer: well, if you have to write documents, that qualifies as "have to"	08:25
RST38h	E70 has bt printing	08:25
Gh0sty	crashanddie: and anyone is looking into that? :/	08:25
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crashanddie	It's already painful on a netbook	08:25
crashanddie	Macer: because writing a real document on a phone is a pain?	08:25
Macer	crashanddie: yeah it worked fine on my n95 .. i could see myself using it day to day	08:25
crashanddie	Gh0sty: PR1.2 hopefully	08:25
Macer	crashanddie: not really	08:25
crashanddie	Macer: I seriously doubt that	08:25
RST38h	some people love pain	08:26
Macer	i'm telling you.. on my n95 using quickoffice and my su8w it was fine	08:26
crashanddie	Macer: I had Doc2Go on my blackberry, and trust me, I would never want to use that really	08:26
Macer	you need the bt folding pocket kb ;)	08:26
Macer	makes it way better	08:26
Macer	heh	08:26
Gh0sty	hm and thats coming out when? :P (as far as i understood from other threads i've been reading 1.2 is going to fix a lot of issues? )	08:26
RST38h	blackberry. eh. that is what I meant.	08:26
Macer	i'm not saying type whole docs using the phone kb	08:26
RST38h	Gh0sty: Sometime between second coming of Jesus and Armageddon	08:27
Trizt	does koffice/abiword support those standardized document formats used by default in openoffice?	08:27
crashanddie	Gh0sty: what the communist said	08:27
Gh0sty	PR1.2 will be released later in this week	08:27
Macer	crashanddie: i thought using my su8w and my n95 was great	08:27
crashanddie	Gh0sty: you don't know that :)	08:27
Gh0sty	is the last msg in the very large thread say? :p	08:27
Macer	:)	08:27
Gh0sty	or is that just someone making that up? :p	08:28
Macer	i thought using my su8w and koffice then printing with cups on my n810 was even better hehe	08:28
crashanddie	Gh0sty: they've been announcing dates for months now. It's become a bit of a pr1.2-lotto	08:28
Gh0sty	lol	08:28
Macer	i was carrying around a netbook in my pocket :)	08:28
crashanddie	whomever gets the date right gets a free cookie	08:28
Gh0sty	where can we place bets ? :p	08:28
crashanddie	ladbrokes	08:28
Gh0sty	:D	08:28
Macer	well. pockets.. had an n810 in one and su8w in another	08:28
Macer	i think the portable printing office suite has been overlooked :)	08:29
crashanddie	it hasn't	08:29
Macer	especially when you consider that maemo and the hardware can handle it	08:29
crashanddie	it's not even a niche	08:29
crashanddie	because there is no market	08:29
Gh0sty	Chuck Norris doesn't wait for PR1.2, he's already running Meego on his N1000.	08:29
Gh0sty	lol :D	08:29
Gh0sty	funny thread :)	08:29
Macer	crashanddie: there is probably no market because you can't do it :)	08:29
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Macer	i bet if people started to show others that it could be done then it wouldn't be niche	08:29
crashanddie	it's a niche for the larvae that live in the niche of mobile computing	08:30
Macer	hahaha	08:30
Macer	crashanddie: i disagree	08:30
Macer	then again	08:30
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Macer	in teh beginning .. mp3 players were niche :-pP	08:30
crashanddie	True	08:30
Macer	it's ok.. we can wait for apple to do it on an iphone	08:30
Macer	and sell the folding iphone keyboard	08:30
Macer	and see how maemo dropped the ball when it had the chance	08:30
Macer	like palm :)	08:30
crashanddie	except that mobile office has been tried multiple times	08:30
Macer	haha	08:30
crashanddie	palm did it, nokia did it, blackberry did it	08:31
crashanddie	and look where it is now? Nowhere.	08:31
Macer	no they didn't	08:31
Macer	:)	08:31
crashanddie	Maybe it's like the tablet? We need Apple to launch iPrint for iPhone from iWorks	08:31
Macer	i'm telling you.. once apple realizes it .. iphones and ikeyboards will be flying off the shelves	08:32
crashanddie	and then iWill be iHappy and feel so much iJoy about iPrint for iPhone through iWorks that I'll get an iPad for my iLivingRoom	08:32
Macer	and all those macbooks will be replaced with iphones that can use office suites and print al in one :)	08:32
Macer	hahaha	08:32
crashanddie	but until then, it's iFail, and utterly iUseless, and iMNotGoingToHappen	08:32
Macer	they'll make sure there's a huge apple symbol on the cradle that holds the iphone.. hell.. why not use it as a supplement battery as well :)	08:32
Macer	crashanddie: alrighty :) we'll see	08:33
crashanddie	Macer: macbooks are seriously good computers	08:33
Macer	they are also large	08:33
crashanddie	I'm just waiting for Microsoft to release a new version of Office for Mac and I'll be happy -- the old version is becoming quite dated	08:34
Macer	and require a bag to carry	08:34
crashanddie	Well, 13" isn't that big	08:34
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Macer	large enough	08:34
crashanddie	I always have a courier bag for my cameras anyway	08:34
crashanddie	Most, if not all business people always have a bag with them too	08:34
crashanddie	If they don't need a bag, they don't need to edit documents -- there is no usecase	08:35
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Macer	well.. personally.. i'd rather go to class with pdf scans of my text books.. and able to bust out a folding keyboard and phone with an office suite.. type whatever i need while using the pdfs as books and print it on the networked univ printers	08:35
Macer	and all i need to do that.. is cups ... and an office suite	08:35
Macer	the rest is already in place :)	08:35
crashanddie	Either you go to a customer for a long period of time warranting the need to edit documents on the go, and then you just take your laptop with you. Or you go lightweight, and the only thing you need is email on your blackberry and taking notes using pen and paper	08:35
Macer	and if you can run kde + cups + koffice on an n810	08:35
timeless_mbp	Macer: google has a net print solution for you :)	08:36
Macer	then on an n900 it should be rather easy :)	08:36
Macer	timeless_mbp: haha.. screw google :)	08:36
crashanddie	But I can assure you that you can't take notes fast enough in front of a customer, using the N900, so there is no business case	08:36
* Macer looks for the black trucks		08:36
crashanddie	plus you look utterly unprofessional when you do so (face pressed into your keyboard, your tongue sticking out because you're concentrating on getting the right keys)	08:36
Macer	crashanddie: hey. all i know is that in school all i needed was my n95 and my su8w	08:37
crashanddie	Whereas with a laptop, your arms are relaxed, your posture looks good, you can look at the customer, smile and look pretty while touch typing	08:37
Macer	:)	08:37
Macer	haha	08:37
crashanddie	well, wait until you get out of school and start doing real work	08:37
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Macer	crashanddie: i am out of school and doing real work	08:37
Macer	and want to use my n900 and my su8w	08:37
Macer	:)	08:37
crashanddie	What do you do, exactly?	08:38
Macer	IT stuff.. contracted server and client configs usually :)	08:38
timeless_mbp	Macer: but i like google!	08:38
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crashanddie	yeah, you're not a business user mate	08:38
crashanddie	you're IT, which means you want a gadget	08:39
crashanddie	so don't pretend to acknowledge the needs of business ;)	08:39
Macer	timeless_mbp: i actually set up a local zimbra server just to avoid using google ;)	08:39
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crashanddie	You don't need to print. You can get slashdot on your n900, and you should be printing your servers/software doco before you leave your desk	08:39
Macer	crashanddie: i do the contracting myself.. i'm self employed / employer with over 20 high paying clients	08:39
timeless_mbp	what a waste of resources!	08:39
Macer	trust me i do plenty of "business"	08:39
Macer	haha	08:39
Stskeeps	crashanddie: what question?	08:40
crashanddie	if you're too fat/lazy to back to your desk to print out some shit or take a laptop, or unorganised to actually think ahead, "not our problem"	08:40
acidjazz	business in qoutes	08:40
crashanddie	Stskeeps: eh?	08:40
acidjazz	definitely sexual favors	08:40
crashanddie	acidjazz: LMAO	08:40
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Macer	and yes. i want my gadget.. i want my records on an n900 and able to print them directly off the phone if i need them ... and type proposals out on my phone and folding bt keyboard that i simply have to pull out of my pocket :)	08:41
Stskeeps	crashanddie: ~5 hours ago you had an important question laying in bed or something	08:41
Macer	realistically an n900 makes a netbook redundant	08:41
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crashanddie	Stskeeps: yeah, can't remember it	08:41
crashanddie	Stskeeps: will come back to me whenever it needs to	08:41
Macer	and redundancy is the opposite of efficiency :)	08:41
Stskeeps	k	08:41
crashanddie	Stskeeps: if not, it means it wasn't important	08:42
crashanddie	Macer: it makes it redundant for you	08:42
Macer	anyways. my son won't go to sleep so i think i'm going to hit him over the head with something	08:42
crashanddie	and please note that I talk about laptop, not netbook	08:42
Macer	crashanddie: i would say the typical macbook is a "gadget" ;)	08:42
crashanddie	Macer: JD	08:42
Macer	or a netbook ;)	08:42
crashanddie	Macer: Jack Daniels	08:42
crashanddie	works everytime	08:42
Macer	hahaha	08:42
Macer	and doesn't leave marks?	08:43
Macer	:)	08:43
sulx	jack daniels? serious?	08:43
crashanddie	well, only after 20 years	08:43
sulx	thats just awful	08:43
crashanddie	sulx: that's why you give it to the kids	08:43
Macer	i would figure southern comfort would be easier	08:43
Macer	it's sweeter :)	08:43
sulx	so they won't think drinking never again...good idea	08:43
crashanddie	sod it, just go for absynth	08:43
Macer	HAHAHA	08:43
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: ping	08:43
crashanddie	they love playing with matches and having the sugar melt	08:43
timeless_mbp	where do i get a meego x86 rootfs?	08:44
Macer	crashanddie: hell no. then he'll be rolling around on the floor tripping	08:44
timeless_mbp	i just need something w/ a build toolchain	08:44
timeless_mbp	so i can use rpm	08:44
Macer	anyways. let me go force him to sleep	08:44
timeless_mbp	(or yum, i don't care)	08:44
crashanddie	Macer: I've hardly ever seen anyone trip due to absynth, that's more of a myth than anything else	08:44
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment has links for a 'developer' image	08:44
crashanddie	Macer: take care	08:44
Macer	crashanddie: yeah. i've never had it tbh	08:44
Stskeeps	(doesn't boot, just for chroot)	08:44
Macer	:)	08:44
Macer	crashanddie: i'm going to track down a way to get cups working on my n900	08:44
Macer	:)	08:45
Macer	after i choke my child to sleep	08:45
crashanddie	n-joy	08:45
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: if it does, i'm blind	08:45
timeless_mbp	please help a poor blind man	08:45
crashanddie	heh... name for the new MeeGo device from nokia: nJoy	08:45
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: Download MeeGo development images for MeeGo X86 and MeeGo ARM and bzip2 -d them (they are 3GB loopback images)	08:45
Stskeeps	crashanddie: MeeGo nJoy?	08:46
Stskeeps	:P	08:46
timeless_mbp	http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/devel/trunk/images/ ?	08:46
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: no, look at the links in that sentence	08:46
Stskeeps	:P	08:46
crashanddie	Stskeeps: nJoy MeeGo?	08:46
Stskeeps	crashanddie: never!	08:46
Stskeeps	:P	08:46
* timeless_mbp wonders how to loopback mount w/o being root		08:47
Stskeeps	sigh	08:47
Stskeeps	:P	08:47
crashanddie	Stskeeps: nJoy, iFarce and eCock. The 3 new devices from Nokia, Apple and Samsung, proudly supported by Microsoft.	08:47
timeless_mbp	2% [> ] 3,005,730 300K/s eta 8m 56s	08:47
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: it's a ext3 filesystem, find some way to extract it i guess :P	08:47
* Stskeeps goes get breakfast		08:48
crashanddie	ntmou <-- loopback mount without root	08:48
crashanddie	ntrootmou <-- loopback mount with root	08:48
crashanddie	or otmountro	08:48
crashanddie	or tontmouro	08:49
crashanddie	~scramble mountroot	08:49
infobot	moutoront	08:49
timeless_mbp	are these real?	08:49
* timeless_mbp kicks crashanddie for messing with a blind guy		08:50
crashanddie	:D	08:50
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DocScrutinizer	~seen arif_	08:52
infobot	arif_ <Arif@95.168.163.235> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23d 17h 57m 32s ago, saying: 'they're not exactly the same are they?'.	08:52
* timeless_mbp sighs		08:52
timeless_mbp	for a platform that pretends to believe in tools	08:53
timeless_mbp	*nix doesn't seem to believe in userspace	08:53
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: i never understood why chroot requires root	08:53
timeless_mbp	there should be an extN to cpio app	08:53
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: the problem is that *nix is stupid	08:53
timeless_mbp	and there's one file system for the entire computer	08:54
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timeless_mbp	instead of one file system per user	08:54
timeless_mbp	(by file system, i mean the presentation starting from /)	08:54
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timeless_mbp	thus, if you can mount a file system which has an app marked suid	08:54
timeless_mbp	you can run it and you're root	08:54
timeless_mbp	anyway, that's why 'mount' in the most basic form is a root priv	08:54
timeless_mbp	(there are other related issues)	08:54
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timeless_mbp	if i could hardlink 'su' into my chroot filesystem	08:55
timeless_mbp	and if 'su' looked at my /etc/passwd, instead of the system's /etc/passwd	08:55
timeless_mbp	then i could become root by using 'su' :)	08:55
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Termana	Besides the fact you have to be root to chroot	08:56
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Termana	Unless I'm not understanding what your saying correctly :P	08:57
timeless_mbp	Termana: that's kinda a stupid explanation for:	08:57
timeless_mbp	<Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: i never understood why chroot requires root	08:57
timeless_mbp	'you have to be root to chroot because chroot requires root'	08:57
timeless_mbp	no really?	08:57
Termana	Oh i see :P Nevermind me heh	08:57
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: perhaps a better example	08:58
timeless_mbp	root user mounts a cdrom with a live cd	08:58
Stskeeps	yeah, i see the flaws :P	08:58
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timeless_mbp	clever user knows the password from the live cd :)	08:58
Corsac	Stskeeps: chroot(2) requires CAP_SYS_CHROOT	08:59
Corsac	which is usually available to root	08:59
Corsac	(on Linux)	08:59
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timeless_mbp	Corsac: that doesn't answer the question	08:59
timeless_mbp	none of this justifies not being able to convert a file system into a cpio archive	08:59
Stskeeps	Corsac: my question was -why-	08:59
Stskeeps	:P	08:59
timeless_mbp	(w/o 'mount')	08:59
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Corsac	I only answered to “why does chroot requires root” in fact, I didn't scroll up more in the backlog, sorry :)	09:00
timeless_mbp	Corsac: given that Termana already got slapped w/in the last screen]	09:00
timeless_mbp	you deserve a double trouting	09:00
Termana	shh timeless_mbp :P I thought you were planning to try doing what you descibed which is why I said what I said :P	09:01
timeless_mbp	Termana: do what?	09:01
Corsac	timeless_mbp: I love trout at breakfast	09:01
timeless_mbp	i still have a problem	09:01
* timeless_mbp slaps Corsac with a rotting trout		09:01
Corsac	thanks	09:01
* timeless_mbp slaps Corsac with an infected trout		09:01
* timeless_mbp quickly discards both in the helsinki water system		09:02
timeless_mbp	(no one will notice!)	09:02
Termana	timeless_mbp: The whole try to become root by symlinking su to a chrooted system. Which is why I said - "besides the fact you need root to do chroot"	09:02
timeless_mbp	Termana: you should have said that you can't hardlink w/o su :)	09:03
timeless_mbp	besides, my livecd example is better	09:03
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: btw, rpm has a --install-root setting, so you can download it from your normal distribution	09:04
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: afaict it doesn't work	09:04
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timeless_mbp	it still requires you to be root	09:05
timeless_mbp	RPM version 4.4.2.3	09:05
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: maybe we should step back and ask what your use case is	09:05
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timeless_mbp	1. i'm NOT root	09:05
timeless_mbp	2. i want to xref meego	09:05
timeless_mbp	3. see 1	09:05
Corsac	I don't even have a --install-root on rpm 4.7.2.1 ¬¬	09:05
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Stskeeps	rpm2cpio X \| cpio id	09:05
Stskeeps	rpm2cpio X \| cpio -id	09:05
Stskeeps	(extract a rpm package)	09:06
timeless_mbp	4. i do not have a complete build environment	09:06
Corsac	(yup)	09:06
timeless_mbp	5. i do not have 'xz'	09:06
Stskeeps	what distribution are you on?	09:06
timeless_mbp	5 is the current problem, as various rpm's use it for their sources	09:06
timeless_mbp	CentOS release 5.4 (Final)	09:06
Corsac	hmhm, can't you build/install xz from source and put it in a local path? (I know it's a bit ugly, but…)	09:06
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: i've already used rpmbuild	09:06
Termana	6. Use a decent distro and you'll be fine	09:06
timeless_mbp	Termana: see 1?	09:07
timeless_mbp	(heck, see 3?)	09:07
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: then why are you running it on a machine you don't have root on? :P	09:07
Termana	Yeah, but did YOU see 6?	09:07
Stskeeps	(one more step back..)	09:07
timeless_mbp	...	09:07
Corsac	Stskeeps: see 3, I guess ;p	09:07
timeless_mbp	why the ****	09:07
timeless_mbp	should i have to be root?	09:07
timeless_mbp	i'm a user	09:07
timeless_mbp	i want to index cr*p	09:07
Corsac	timeless_mbp: and there's no way you could ask an admin to install xz for you?	09:07
timeless_mbp	what part of that requires root	09:07
Stskeeps	well, because your local admin isn't doing his job and providing you the tools you need	09:07
timeless_mbp	Corsac: i'd have to find the admin	09:08
timeless_mbp	which is difficult	09:08
Corsac	timeless_mbp: afaiui, the only part requiring root is the xz part	09:08
timeless_mbp	plus, imagine a box w/ 1000 users	09:08
Termana	timeless_mbp: Why not boot from a livecd?	09:08
Termana	err	09:08
timeless_mbp	Termana: the box is in a cloud	09:08
timeless_mbp	where the **** do you expect me to ...	09:08
timeless_mbp	see 3	09:08
timeless_mbp	see 1	09:08
Termana	timeless_mbp: why not use a local machine	09:08
timeless_mbp	hrm, because my mac doesn't have enough ram?	09:08
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: calm down, it isn't our fault that you have a setup that isn't set up for the purpose you have	09:08
timeless_mbp	or power	09:08
Corsac	timeless_mbp: or maybe you can do the extract part on another box where xz is installed, but that would mean a lot of network traffic if you want to do that regularly	09:08
timeless_mbp	Corsac: i do	09:09
timeless_mbp	obviously	09:09
timeless_mbp	the goal of an indexer is to index things	09:09
timeless_mbp	as regularly as necessary	09:09
Corsac	hmmh, but	09:09
timeless_mbp	preferably in an automated fassion	09:09
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: get a tar.gz of a fedora filesystem and use fakechroot	09:09
timeless_mbp	without constant admin interaction	09:09
Corsac	currently you “send” the rpms automagically ?	09:09
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timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: why can't i convert this stupid ext3 into a tgz?	09:09
Corsac	they are downloaded from the cloud machine?	09:09
timeless_mbp	Corsac: the cloud machine does all the work	09:09
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: the second option is asking someone nice to make a tar.gz variant for you	09:10
timeless_mbp	it uses a script to calculate the rpm's to get	09:10
timeless_mbp	it downloads them	09:10
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: which is very easy	09:10
Termana	heh :P	09:10
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: could i please have a tgz?	09:10
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: at the point the image was released, ext3 was the only option	09:10
Corsac	and a pony	09:10
timeless_mbp	i don't need the pony	09:10
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: if i don't hear any moaning about not being root afterwards, yes :P	09:10
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* Stskeeps goes start a build		09:10
timeless_mbp	but if including a pony in the request then sure, i'll take the pony	09:10
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timeless_mbp	s/then/makes it happen then/	09:11
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: but if including a pony in the request makes it happen then sure, i'll take the pony	09:11
* timeless_mbp can always give the pony to someone else		09:11
Mace_N900	facebook uses jabber?	09:11
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Corsac	yes	09:11
Termana	DENNNNNIIIED - you can't even get a box with root access, how can we trust you to look after a pony	09:11
Mace_N900	do they do s2s?	09:11
Corsac	don't think so	09:11
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Mace_N900	damn	09:11
timeless_mbp	fwiw, i've already built sb2 in this box	09:11
timeless_mbp	which is why i'm at "i need a rootfs"	09:11
Mace_N900	what would the fb contact look like?	09:12
Stskeeps	devel-ia32 OK, timeless_mbp?	09:12
timeless_mbp	sure	09:12
timeless_mbp	presumably that's roughly what i already downloaded?	09:12
Mace_N900	name@chat.facebook.com?	09:12
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: roughly	09:12
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Corsac	Mace_N900: various clients already allow you to “create” a facebook account	09:12
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: if you did have root, generating such an image would be a matter of: [root@ideapad mic2]# mic-image-creator -f fs -c devel-ia32.ks	09:13
Corsac	(which is just a jabber account connecting to the correct server with the correct username) so you might want to look at them to see it	09:13
Mace_N900	i dont want one. but i want the s2s xmpp	09:13
timeless_mbp	yeah, but… see 1 :)	09:13
Mace_N900	to chat with fb people	09:13
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: considering to buy a dedi might be useful :P	09:13
timeless_mbp	fwiw, i think gnomevfs and gio have claimed they'd "solve" this problem	09:13
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Corsac	Mace_N900: I don't think it'll work but if you suceed, keep me posted :)	09:13
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: honestly, i don't want to admin a box	09:13
Mace_N900	haha. ok	09:14
timeless_mbp	i don't want to be responsible for security	09:14
Mace_N900	will do	09:14
timeless_mbp	or bandwidth	09:14
Mace_N900	i bet it works	09:14
timeless_mbp	or hardware maintenance	09:14
Corsac	I definitely agree timeless_mbp	09:14
timeless_mbp	i'm a dev, not an admin	09:14
Mace_N900	gtalk s2s works	09:14
timeless_mbp	i should not be able to screw up my host	09:14
timeless_mbp	nor should i be responsible for securing it	09:14
Stskeeps	your case is a bit special, since you want to index, not develop	09:14
Stskeeps	:P	09:14
timeless_mbp	so	09:14
timeless_mbp	arguably a dev shouldn't need to be root	09:15
Corsac	definitely	09:15
Corsac	but he should have an admin handy	09:15
timeless_mbp	there's very little distinction between my use case and a dev's	09:15
timeless_mbp	Corsac: um	09:15
timeless_mbp	imagine 10,000 college students on a box	09:15
timeless_mbp	should they have an admin 'handy'	09:15
Mace_N900	hahaha	09:15
Stskeeps	that setup is actually kinda rare these days	09:15
Corsac	timeless_mbp: I used to work in an IT departement, btw	09:15
timeless_mbp	so they can all pester the admin for buggy tools?	09:15
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: it wasn't rare when i was in college	09:15
Stskeeps	our uni cluster was largely unused	09:15
Stskeeps	yes, but it wasn't in the times of fast laptops	09:16
Stskeeps	:P	09:16
timeless_mbp	Stskeeps: our clusters were heavily used in 2002	09:16
Corsac	timeless_mbp: usually the “handy admin” is nicely^Whandled with a request tracker or something	09:16
timeless_mbp	Corsac: i'd hope you'd reject most of the requests here	09:16
Corsac	sure	09:16
timeless_mbp	"i want to run mic-image-creator"	09:16
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Corsac	but that's only because I'm a bofh	09:16
Corsac	nowadays it's not really processing power but electricy and bandwith which matter most	09:17
timeless_mbp	(mic does loopback mounts, and runs arbitrary code, often)	09:17
timeless_mbp	for me, what matters is:	09:17
timeless_mbp	a. bandwidth	09:17
timeless_mbp	b. ram	09:17
Corsac	timeless_mbp: but I would have accepted to install xz, maybe	09:17
timeless_mbp	Corsac: i'd get tired of bugging you each week that another stupid package requires another stupid tool	09:17
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timeless_mbp	i can build xz myself	09:17
timeless_mbp	after all, i've already built auto* and a few others	09:17
Stskeeps	why didn't you build rpm then?	09:18
Stskeeps	:P	09:18
timeless_mbp	i have rpm!	09:18
timeless_mbp	it's a centos box!	09:18
Mace_N900	ehaha	09:18
Stskeeps	not one with xz support	09:18
Stskeeps	(it looks like)	09:18
timeless_mbp	true	09:18
timeless_mbp	but afaict rpm doesn't do the xz	09:18
timeless_mbp	it contracts out to 'xz'	09:18
Stskeeps	yes it does	09:18
Stskeeps	well, it needs a setup	09:18
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Mace_N900	tell the admin to make you a centos zone in opensolarus	09:18
timeless_mbp	...	09:18
Corsac	xz is lzma, isn't it?	09:18
Corsac	ok, anyway I'm kind of sure that's not timeless_mbp	09:19
Mace_N900	:)	09:19
Corsac	so let's get back to ponies	09:19
crashanddie	OMG PONIES	09:19
Corsac	/_mbp/_mbp's point/ btw	09:19
Shapeshifter	uhm, is the advanced geocaching tool supposed to show anything other then the map? i made an account and put it into the options. but if I go to search geocaches the list is empty no matter if or what I type in.	09:20
Mace_N900	im pretty sure there is a zone for rhel/centos	09:20
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: 219/226 on the image and then i'm uploading	09:20
Corsac	timeless_mbp: anyway, isn't there a meego/maemo/... community-administred server which would help in your case? (though it wouldn't fix the parts where you need admin rights which you don't want)	09:20
timeless_mbp	/var/tmp/rpm-tmp.91621:/bin/gzip -dc '/data/meego.com/SOURCES/paps-0.6.8.tar.gz' \| tar -xf -	09:20
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timeless_mbp	Corsac: doubtful	09:20
timeless_mbp	and i don't want to have to bother them constantly either	09:21
timeless_mbp	it's generally easier for me to run mxr on a box which isn't managed by a network starved system	09:21
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timeless_mbp	comparing reliability of mxr.maemo.org w/ *.maemo.org	09:21
timeless_mbp	i'm pretty sure mxr.maemo.org worked better	09:21
timeless_mbp	mxr.maemo.org is dreamhost	09:21
timeless_mbp	mxr.moego.org is e2	09:21
Corsac	maego ?	09:21
timeless_mbp	ec2	09:22
Termana	moego	09:22
timeless_mbp	moego is a staging name	09:22
timeless_mbp	i'm supposed to get a cname for mxr.meego.com	09:22
Corsac	ok	09:22
timeless_mbp	but i can't remember the person i need to talk to about it	09:22
Corsac	the admin (tm)	09:23
Mace_N900	haha	09:23
Corsac	the Almighty Administrator	09:23
Mace_N900	cape and tights?	09:23
Corsac	timeless_mbp: so in the end, what you say is that it's easier to work on .deb than on .rpm?	09:23
* Corsac runs		09:23
Stskeeps	well, deb is ar x	09:23
Shapeshifter	moe? heh	09:23
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Corsac	Stskeeps: usually you tar xf the data.tar.gz at one point ;p	09:24
Corsac	(or you dpkg --extract if you have dpkg)	09:24
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timeless_mbp	Corsac: not really	09:24
Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: ~20 mins	09:24
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timeless_mbp	in theory rpm is going to give me a better source index	09:24
Corsac	(and dpkg is supposed to be able to use bz2/lzma at one point)	09:24
timeless_mbp	w/ debs, i had no way of knowing how to apply patches	09:24
timeless_mbp	in theory rpmbuild will guarantee patch application	09:24
Corsac	well, I think it's already read, the infrastructure is not :)	09:24
timeless_mbp	whereas w/ apt 'forget about it'	09:24
timeless_mbp	and deb is adding some new quilt formats	09:25
timeless_mbp	which is roughly equivalent to rpm adding xz	09:25
k9	how can i used my 2nd cam on my N900?	09:25
Corsac	yes, new sources format would have helped for the patches, in that case	09:25
timeless_mbp	the rpm bit itself is actually trivial, it's the contained crud that's painful	09:25
crashanddie	k9: I heard that only the pre-production devices had the camera working	09:25
timeless_mbp	deb is the same, the deb bit itself is trivial	09:25
Corsac	well, it's just because they added compression formats too, which are used in meego	09:25
crashanddie	k9: however, having a pre-prod device, I never got it working	09:26
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Corsac	old rpms used gz or bz2 I guess?	09:26
timeless_mbp	yes	09:26
timeless_mbp	(both)	09:26
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timeless_mbp	and some used something else	09:26
timeless_mbp	(.Z?)	09:26
ag0ny	Good morning	09:26
Corsac	I guess it's another lzma based one	09:26
crashanddie	k9: try the mirror app	09:27
Mace_N900	with the kind of use i put on my n900... my G1 would have lasted an hour	09:27
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k9	crashanddie: tnx men....and also is there a feature where i can put a timer on my camera?	09:29
timeless_mbp	fwiw, building 'xz' requires 'autopoint'	09:30
timeless_mbp	which is a tool i've never heard of	09:30
Corsac	hmmh, it's in cvs iirc	09:30
crashanddie	k9: also, apparently it works if you do a gtalk call from computer to N900	09:30
k9	crashanddie: a selftimer feature would be a great apps	09:30
crashanddie	k9: however, the remote computer only works if made from Windows (apparently). I never got it work from OSX	09:30
Corsac	mhmh, not cvs :)	09:30
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Corsac	but it does depend on cvs here	09:30
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Corsac	Description: The autopoint program from GNU gettext	09:31
crashanddie	k9: what do you mean?	09:31
timeless_mbp	well, that was an obvious package!	09:31
crashanddie	k9: an app that takes pictures on the front-facing camera every x seconds?	09:31
Corsac	timeless_mbp: iirc it was split recently from the cvs package	09:32
Corsac	(in debian I mean)	09:32
k9	crashanddie: in the back camera i mean, is there a feature a selftimer for the camera	09:32
Corsac	that's why nobody knows it, too	09:32
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crashanddie	k9: not as far as I'm aware	09:32
Corsac	mirror seems to works fine here	09:32
timeless_mbp	to be fair, the rpm has a proper dependency to gettext	09:33
Corsac	there's a strange looking guy in it, at least	09:33
Mace_N900	hm	09:33
Corsac	he doesn't seem too awake	09:33
timeless_mbp	although, i question the dependency to cvs given that it has a dependency to gettext	09:33
k9	crashanddie: i hope you guys develop such feature for it....N900 rules!	09:33
Corsac	and he has a trout on the head	09:33
Mace_N900	nokia must have a different idea about what an alarm to wake up is	09:33
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timeless_mbp	Mace_N900: eh?	09:33
Mace_N900	their alarm tones would put me into REM	09:33
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timeless_mbp	Mace_N900: if you aren't using my strings, you're in trouble :)	09:33
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: not strong enough	09:34
Mace_N900	haha	09:34
k9	haha	09:34
Mace_N900	their alarm tones are.... soothing	09:34
sECuRE	yep	09:34
* timeless_mbp goes to update the l10n packages		09:34
Mace_N900	alarms are meant to be discomforting	09:34
sECuRE	the ringtones too	09:34
Corsac	timeless_mbp: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=572481 if that can help you	09:34
Mace_N900	ring tones i understand	09:35
Corsac	(sorry I only know about debian sources of information, which might not be helpful)	09:35
crashanddie	Mace_N900: I'm using an alarm app on my mbp, because the N900 doesn't wake me up	09:35
Mace_N900	but alarms that put you to sleep?	09:35
Mace_N900	heh	09:35
timeless_mbp	Corsac: interesting	09:35
crashanddie	plus the app actually requires me to do math before it turns it off permanently,	09:35
Mace_N900	i just used an mp3	09:35
timeless_mbp	it doesn't look like redhat has switched yet	09:35
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crashanddie	"16 * 4"	09:35
XS3	can some help me install the maemo 5 sdk? http://pastie.org/936804	09:36
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Corsac	timeless_mbp: ok so looking at the readme file, the dependency in debian is just for transition	09:36
Corsac	timeless_mbp: because autopoint was provided in the cvs package before, or something (wtf?)	09:36
timeless_mbp	fwiw, the time it takes for me to build any one auto tool is prohibitively expensive	09:37
XS3	trying to install it on a fedora 12 x65	09:37
XS3	*64	09:37
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timeless_mbp	which is one of the reasons i don't want to build a world on this box	09:37
* k9		09:37
crashanddie	XS3: specify the user you want to install to	09:37
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XS3	what do you mean,user?	09:38
timeless_mbp	heck, forget building, just running through 'configure' is incredibly slow	09:38
crashanddie	E: User 'None' not found with 'getent passwd None' command.	09:38
XS3	so how should i execute the python script?	09:38
XS3	or should i make changes to it?	09:38
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* timeless_mbp sighs		09:39
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timeless_mbp	i'm also running a git->hg conversion	09:39
timeless_mbp	it's managed to process 28hrs of data in the last few hours	09:39
k9	crashanddie: so N900 cannot support video calls	09:39
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timeless_mbp	which is well… not wonderful, when you consider that it's sitting @july 23, 2009	09:39
timeless_mbp	and we're somewhere in 2010	09:40
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crashanddie	k9: not over 3G, but through GTalk it works (when computer initiates call)	09:40
namus	How to continous backtrace using gdb ,	09:40
timeless_mbp	namus: eh?	09:40
timeless_mbp	bt 10000	09:40
timeless_mbp	(w/ a terminal that has 10000 rows)	09:41
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Corsac	set logging on trouc.txt might help too :)	09:42
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namus	timeless_mbp,cant we get backtrace ,non-interactively , ie., backtrace to be diplayed along with UI flow	09:42
timeless_mbp	??????	09:43
timeless_mbp	if your question can be written in a native language which someone here can speak, perhaps you should find a translator	09:43
timeless_mbp	because your question was garbled in your translation	09:43
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timeless_mbp	perhaps you should start over and describe what you're doing	09:44
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: do you speak swedish?	09:44
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: no, but frals does :)	09:44
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timeless_mbp	do you want a function call trace, so that you can see each function that's entered/exited while a program runs?	09:45
timeless_mbp	if so, dtrace or a competitor is what you want, not gdb	09:45
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timeless_mbp	if you have a core dump from which you want a stack trace, then, yes, gdb can take orders via a commandline argument	09:46
crashanddie	namus: timeless_mbp ar en skitstovel, bara forklara ditt problemme fulut	09:46
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* crashanddie has no idea if that was even close to being correct		09:46
crashanddie	frals: was that good?	09:47
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: what makes you think namus speaks swedish? :)	09:47
crashanddie	because his ISP is swedish	09:47
namus	i want to see each function & each thread that's entered/exited while a program runs	09:47
namus	i dont know swedish	09:47
crashanddie	damnit	09:47
crashanddie	do you live in sweden?	09:47
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: his language patterns seem to be indian	09:48
timeless_mbp	(unless they're chinese)	09:48
namus	no , iam from India	09:48
Corsac	impressive	09:48
namus	nice guess	09:48
timeless_mbp	Corsac: each group makes a set of errors	09:48
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crashanddie	ah crap, I copied the wrong line when I did the /whois, I looked at dvoid_'s address xd	09:48
timeless_mbp	you can usually distinguish between indian, chinese, and latin american	09:48
timeless_mbp	and russian	09:49
crashanddie	and french/spanish/italian	09:49
crashanddie	who are nearly in the same group as latin american	09:49
timeless_mbp	:)	09:49
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timeless_mbp	germans also make a distinct set of errors fwiw	09:49
timeless_mbp	(as do finns)	09:49
crashanddie	and americans	09:50
timeless_mbp	finns tend to ask "why is your software broken, the iPhone looks better, you should make it look like the iPhone"	09:50
crashanddie	who, along with any native english speakers, are the only ones who manage to mix up affet and effet	09:50
crashanddie	s/effet/effect/	09:50
infobot	crashanddie meant: who, along with any native english speakers, are the only ones who manage to mix up affet and effect	09:50
timeless_mbp	a finn complained about: http://mxr.moego.org/finnish-banks.html	09:50
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timeless_mbp	with some apologies to some finns here,	09:50
timeless_mbp	Finns are IDIOTS	09:51
Corsac	hmhm, midori doesn't resolve international hostname	09:51
Corsac	crap	09:51
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timeless_mbp	they make American rednecks seem well traveled	09:51
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: finns are pretty much the european rednecks	09:51
crashanddie	ahha	09:51
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timeless_mbp	and growing up, being called a redneck was a grave insult	09:51
crashanddie	it still is	09:52
crashanddie	but now we'd rather say hillbilly or billy bob	09:52
timeless_mbp	to me, it's lost its insult value having lived here	09:52
timeless_mbp	it's much more insulting to think "oh, he's a finn"	09:52
timeless_mbp	finns seem to think:	09:52
timeless_mbp	"it's ok to schedule meetings so there's no time for lunch"	09:53
timeless_mbp	"our meeting is more important than anything else in the world"	09:53
timeless_mbp	"it's ok to schedule a meeting in conflict with an ALL hands"	09:53
crashanddie	erhm, that's just business, timeless_mbp ;)	09:53
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timeless_mbp	oh, and "it's ok to have multiple distinct ALL hands"	09:53
flux	man, that's one bitter yankee ;(	09:53
timeless_mbp	since after all, "ALL" doesn't mean "ALL"	09:53
timeless_mbp	it means … well, something else, i guess?	09:54
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Stskeeps	timeless_mbp: scandinavian work culture is fun	09:54
Stskeeps	:P	09:54
timeless_mbp	flux: sorry, i dealt with two or three idiotic finns between friday and monday	09:54
timeless_mbp	that's 2 more than my weekend quota	09:54
crashanddie	flux: he's jewish, he's still blowing off steam from a few generations ago.	09:54
timeless_mbp	i'm not paid enough to deal with them	09:54
* Stskeeps ponders if this convo is turning a bit toxic		09:55
crashanddie	probably	09:55
* timeless_mbp goes to a meeting		09:55
Corsac	ok, time to get to work then :)	09:55
Stskeeps	back to the business of the day	09:55
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Stskeeps	timeless: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/devel-ia32-201004270212.tar.gz	09:56
crashanddie	too late	09:56
crashanddie	he elft	09:56
Stskeeps	his user is still here :P	09:57
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timeless	anyone here know the greasemonkey packager?	10:13
Stskeeps	timeless: got my URL from above	10:13
Stskeeps	?	10:13
timeless	i'll grab it from the logs when i arrive somewhere	10:14
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RST38h	But NPR reports that this good news may have a surprising downside: cleaner air might actually intensify global warming. One benefit of sulfates is that they've been helpfully blocking sunlight from striking the Earth for many decades, by brightening clouds and expanding their coverage	10:23
RST38h	And good morning to you all.	10:23
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Mace_N900	wtf	10:28
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Mace_N900	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlKL_EpnSp8	10:29
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timeless_mbp	RST38h: good morning to you too	10:32
* timeless_mbp woke up too early today		10:32
timeless_mbp	morning shouldn't be before noon	10:32
ruskie	good morrow all	10:32
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ofauchon	Hi. I'm looking for screen command line tool. Do the package exists ? I can't find it . Thx	10:36
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* RST38h watches morning sulfates from the panoramic window		10:41
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furunk3l	yes hello	10:44
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mece	I tohught I might make a small application in Qt, but how is it now, can I make Qt apps that can actually be used on the device?	10:58
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tybollt	hmm	11:22
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hrw\|gone	morning	11:24
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zokier	mece, i'd wait until pr1.2 before trying to get apps to the device	11:26
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chem\|st	morning	11:28
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chem\|st	mece: if they are compiled against 1.1.1 sure	11:29
hrw	so pr1.1.5 is next unknown?	11:29
chem\|st	hrw: something like that ;)	11:29
Scelt	mece: did you get that packaging working for HOMM2?	11:30
tybollt	zokier: Wait for pr 1.2?	11:30
tybollt	that's like waiting for godot - innit?	11:30
chem\|st	if your qt dependencies are set to qt4.5 it should work if your program works with qt4.5	11:30
chem\|st	tybollt: hurd	11:30
mece	Scelt, yep	11:30
Scelt	mece: in devel?	11:31
mece	Scelt, yep	11:31
tybollt	I solidly believe DNF will be released prior to PR1.2	11:31
mece	Scelt, if you don't have data, you can download the demodata package.	11:31
Scelt	mece: yeah. gotta check it at home	11:31
mece	tybollt, I've preordered DNF	11:31
Scelt	mece: awesome work	11:32
chem\|st	tybollt: is that a reasonable guess?	11:32
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tybollt	mece: :D	11:32
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Scelt	mece: what was the package name again?	11:32
Scelt	mece: got it, fheroes2	11:33
mece	Scelt, it's not without issues. Here's the thread. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50851 The latest should work pretty well though.	11:33
mece	hey howcome some apps' icon become visible right away, while mine demands a reboot, or at least some major event to become visible?	11:33
Scelt	mece: are you from Turku or Maarianhamina?	11:34
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Scelt	mece: I have the same issue, dunno why	11:34
mece	Scelt, Turku. Where'd you get Mariehamn?	11:34
Scelt	mece [~mwikstro@mariehamn.abo.fi]	11:34
Scelt	:)	11:34
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mece	Scelt, lol it's the computer's name. It was used on some åland project before I had it apparently	11:34
chem\|st	mece: I dont know if that depends on trackerd, its a 50:50 chance I get a blue box or an icon right away	11:35
Scelt	damn my 3G worked fast	11:35
Scelt	downloaded the 22 Mt fheroes2-data in 20 seconds or so	11:35
Scelt	MB	11:35
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mece	wow	11:36
chem\|st	Scelt: simple math 22*800/756~~25	11:37
mece	chem\|st, I tried some gtk-icon-refresh or something like that in the postinst, but it did nothing :/	11:37
chem\|st	my provider is stuck with 352 or something	11:37
Scelt	chem\|st: yeah but it's rare that it downloads so fast	11:38
chem\|st	Scelt: the speed was never an issue the lag was for me	11:38
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chem\|st	mece: I guess there is something else to trigger than gtk-update-icon-cache	11:42
Stskeeps	gtk-update-icon-cache is a null-oop	11:42
Stskeeps	op	11:42
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chem\|st	mece: the wiki says run gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor	11:45
chem\|st	in your postinst, if that does nothing look for a bug	11:46
Scelt	mece: awesome game!	11:46
hrw	someone remember page with maemosdk squeeze update instructions?	11:47
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squidd	umm, wtf happened to my microb :S	11:49
squidd	urlbar only has url, no buttons :O	11:49
jacekowski	that's correct	11:49
chem\|st	hrw: whats your problem?	11:49
jacekowski	it's urlbar	11:49
jacekowski	if it was supposed to have buttons it would be called buttonbar	11:49
jacekowski	or urlbuttonbar	11:50
chem\|st	hrw: the only issue I had was that xephyr uses different options	11:50
hrw	chem\|st: ok, so you do not know what I want	11:50
chem\|st	hrw: well... last time I had it running was right after upgrades, and yes Idk ;)	11:52
hrw	chem\|st: armel target do not use xephyr at all	11:52
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chem\|st	hrw: upgrade on armel ran through without any faults	11:53
squidd	i c	11:53
squidd	no problem anymore, restarting microb made button reappear	11:53
hrw	squidd: I got same today	11:53
chem\|st	but somehow I am still missing somthing as some selfcompiled libs do not work properly yet	11:53
squidd	hrw: omg, must be a sign. maybe we will get pr1.2 today :O	11:54
hrw	squidd: pr1.2 will be at 12 november	11:54
squidd	:(	11:54
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hrw	squidd: or we will get pr1.1.5 + bonus time travel to two weeks ago	11:55
squidd	:D	11:55
chem\|st	hrw: I thought it was on 01/04....	11:55
mece	~seen noobmonk3y	11:57
infobot	noobmonk3y <~noobmonk3@host86-178-50-44.range86-178.btcentralplus.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11h 15m 39s ago, saying: 'healthcheck is back up and working again!'.	11:57
mece	I'm just craptacularly lazy. I think I'll go with pyqt instead. Don't feel like fighting with c++ today.	11:58
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chem\|st	hrw: will there be movies on the time travel?	11:59
mece	pyside or pyqt4?	12:01
hrw	I hate sbox	12:04
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RST38h	moo wazd	12:17
wazd	RST38h: heya :)	12:19
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wazd	RST38h: I'm going to visit SPB Fruct thing :)	12:19
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Khertan	Hi !	12:21
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wazd	Khertan: hey there :)	12:21
raster	meh	12:21
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Khertan	noobmonk3y: app manager read the icon file from the controle file	12:22
RST38h	wazd: Don't drink yourself to death =)	12:22
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wazd	RST38h: well, can't promise anything :P	12:24
tybollt	uhm, drinking yourself to death is kind of implied when living east of helsinki... ;P	12:24
Jaffa	Morning, all	12:25
wazd	Jaffa: heya	12:25
hrw	die maemo die!	12:25
hrw	~curse sbox for being unusable shit	12:26
tybollt	long live maemo!	12:26
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, sbox for being unusable shit !	12:26
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Termana	How could you possibly wish that on someone	12:27
Termana	:P	12:27
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RST38h	hrw <--- really emotional about sb	12:29
RST38h	hrw: BTW, dpkg crashes in sb2 for unknown reason. Got Karmic with the latest (patched) kernel. Tried both lenny and etch tools	12:30
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Stskeeps	RST38h: test if even simple binaries crash	12:30
RST38h	Sts: No, just dpkg	12:30
RST38h	Sts: I know of the NX bug, but have got the latest Ubuntu kernel	12:30
RST38h	Sts: Actually, dpkg -i crashes, just dpkg is fine =)	12:31
Stskeeps	dpkg is probably a host tool	12:31
hrw	RST38h: I maintained one package for maemo5: mdbus2. today sbox died during rebuilding of newer version	12:31
hrw	and I really do not like to need to run vm just to rebuild small pacakge. and no, I do not want sbox infected host system	12:33
RST38h	hrw: Why not move to sb2 though?	12:33
hrw	RST38h: another ia32 binary only?	12:35
RST38h	hrw: prolly, although I do not know why it bothers you	12:36
RST38h	It installs from a repo like any normal Ubuntu app. Runs transparently, unlike sb1	12:36
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tybollt	tim e less	12:40
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mece	feck	12:50
mece	are all the qt libs removed from extras?	12:50
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ccooke	Morning, all	12:53
MohammadAG	morning ccooke	12:53
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* Khertan still doesn't understand the concept of qt		12:57
hrw	Khertan: ?	12:58
Khertan	someone maybe can explain me how to implement an auto indent in a qtrichtext	12:58
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Khertan	i mean ... i should trap text change slot	12:58
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Khertan	but i didn't get the change	12:59
Khertan	i just know that changes happen	12:59
Khertan	it s a bit useless for my user	12:59
Khertan	it s a bit useless for my use	12:59
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Khertan	ok ... i understand ... i need to subclass QTextEdit and his method keyPressEvent	13:03
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d14	morning o/	13:13
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MohammadAG	morning d14 \o	13:18
d14	x)	13:18
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d14	\o/	13:19
d14	MohammadAG: whats new? :)	13:19
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chadi	Hi. Please read the last post of this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=629652#post629652	13:22
chadi	Did I brick my device?	13:22
chadi	The script says this is a safe way :/	13:24
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SpeedEvil	well - the author wzs probably wrong	13:24
SpeedEvil	reflash the phone in the normal way	13:24
chadi	So my data is lost?	13:25
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SpeedEvil	no, probably not	13:25
SpeedEvil	reflashing the root does not affect your data, which is on the mydocs and home partitions	13:26
chadi	wait, doesn't reflashing clear out all data?	13:26
SpeedEvil	no	13:26
SpeedEvil	it only rewrites the root - unless you use the 'with mmc' flash image	13:26
chadi	and you said "the normal" way. so the other way is the one with emmc?	13:27
SpeedEvil	no - I mean with the flasher tool	13:27
Khertan	lol	13:27
Khertan	i just found that you can download not yet release image on tablets-dev	13:28
Khertan	huhu	13:28
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chadi	By the way, I am not sure which variant I have. Does it matter?	13:28
Khertan	of course it s not real images :)	13:28
SpeedEvil	~flashing	13:29
infobot	from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	13:29
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andre__	Khertan, uh? at least there's nothing newer than 3.2010.02-8 on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php	13:29
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MohammadAG	no	13:29
Khertan	andre__: no of course there is nothing in the php list :)	13:30
andre__	ah. hehe	13:30
MohammadAG	andre__, maybe he digged into the source	13:30
MohammadAG	ooh	13:30
* MohammadAG does a wget -m		13:30
Khertan	andre__: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2010SE_10.2010.16-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin	13:30
Khertan	it s look like you got an image	13:30
andre__	whoah	13:30
Khertan	but it s just an html file content :)	13:31
Arkenoi	quite strange, moveroot.sh worked perfectly well for me (if it is the same script)	13:31
Khertan	andre__: with an error :)	13:31
sECuRE	<b>Warning</b>: fopen(/var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900/downloads/RX-51_2010SE_10.2010.16-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin) [<a href='function.fopen'>function.fopen</a>]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in <b>/var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900.php</b> on line <b>175</b><br />	13:31
chadi	:(	13:31
andre__	hmm. looks like you can add any kind of parameter there and always get a download	13:31
andre__	I also get a download when just entering http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2010SE_10	13:31
Khertan	andre__: yep	13:32
Khertan	:)	13:32
andre__	of course it's a html file	13:32
Khertan	exactly	13:32
Khertan	of course	13:32
Khertan	:)	13:32
chadi	so you guys are sure that no data will be lost after reflashing? like contacts, conversations, etc. I do not use an external memory card...	13:32
Stskeeps	Khertan: that one makes me wonder if there's f=/etc/passd	13:32
Stskeeps	passwd	13:32
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hrw	you can give anything as "f" value	13:32
Khertan	Stskeeps: already try :)	13:32
RST38h	So, got PR1.2?	13:33
Khertan	i ll not publish a such things if directory changes was possible	13:33
Khertan	i ll warn nokia before for security issue ... but here there isn't :)	13:33
andre__	errm... so there is no "not yet released image"? or is there?	13:33
Khertan	RST38h: nope ... except if you consider : <b>Warning</b>: fopen(/var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900/downloads/RX-51_2010SE_10.2010.16-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin) [<a href='function.fopen'>function.fopen</a>]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in <b>/var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900.php</b> on line <b>175</b><br /> as a pr 1.2 :)	13:34
Khertan	andre__: nope of course	13:34
andre__	heh	13:34
andre__	still, interesting	13:34
Khertan	i think it was when the download start	13:34
Khertan	:)	13:34
andre__	haha, okay	13:34
Khertan	but when it s end 500kb later ... i understood my errors :)	13:34
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BusterB	Which uses less cpu? Osso-media-server, mplayer, default media player, or somethin else? Just tryin to play xvid encode with mp3 audio avi that will last longer on battery.	13:42
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RST38h	defaul tmedia player	13:43
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BusterB	k ty	13:43
RST38h	N8 officially revealed	13:44
RST38h	Looks closer to iPhone, no keyboard, xenon flash and 12mpx camera	13:45
RST38h	Finally, plain black plastic casing, or so it looks	13:45
zokier	symbian :/	13:46
asj	ah n8 it is :) coo	13:46
asj	l	13:46
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MiXu-	It remains to be seen if Symbian^3 delivers.	13:47
RST38h	MiXu: Delivers exactly the same as previous symbian	13:47
RST38h	No surprises there	13:47
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MiXu-	If the responsiveness and the UX is good enough, I say N8 may even be a good product.	13:47
asj	wow, and they're selling the green one?	13:47
MiXu-	RST38h: What's that comment based on?	13:48
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MiXu-	Even if you've tried the development version, I'd assume the product isn't ready at this point and the UX will change towards the release.	13:50
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BusterB	Whoa is the quad band hspa?	13:51
PhonicUK	hey all	13:51
Termana	That comment is based on the fact Symbian is relatively not accepted as great in the mass media. Its probably doubtful this will change it	13:51
Termana	Sorry, I should rephrase that - thats what I think the comment is about.	13:51
PhonicUK	Symbian feels very dated to use imo	13:51
SpeedEvil	I wonder how many real megapixels 12 is.	13:51
Termana	That may or may not of been what RST38h meant	13:52
Termana	have*	13:52
MiXu-	Windows is really dated also.	13:52
MiXu-	But hey, look.	13:52
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PhonicUK	MiXu, it doesn't feel dated because Windows 7 has done a reasonably good job at keeping with the times	13:52
PhonicUK	but Symbian feels like its barely changed in 5 years	13:52
Surfa	windows is indeed dated, but win7 is excellent os	13:53
Termana	MiXu-: I'm not sure Windows 7 looks all that dated at all. But that doesn't change the fact its still a sack of crap	13:53
MiXu-	PhonicUK: And if Symbian manages to do the same... why not?	13:53
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zokier	symbian is bit like winxp. it kinda works, but its age begins to feel :)	13:53
PhonicUK	If they manage it then fair enough, I'm talking in the presence tense	13:53
MiXu-	Windows 7 is exellent	13:53
PhonicUK	S60v5 on my N97 feels somewhat clunky to use at the best of times	13:53
MiXu-	I'm not judging S^3 until I see it.	13:53
PhonicUK	only reason I keep my N97 around is for Spotify	13:54
PhonicUK	otherwise I'd sell it xD	13:54
MiXu-	In my opinion N97 was the biggest piece of crap Nokia has released for a while. :D	13:54
MiXu-	At least the PR1.0	13:54
PhonicUK	I don't regret getting it, I got a lot out of it	13:54
MiXu-	Haven't tried the upgraded onew.	13:54
PhonicUK	I wish they'd stayed with Webkit as the primary web engine with Maemo	13:54
PhonicUK	that was one of the things that Symbian still has going for it	13:54
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asj	PhonicUK: omg why?	13:54
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PhonicUK	its faster?	13:55
SpeedEvil	http://n8makemyapp.com/ - vote for meego! :)	13:55
MiXu-	I am cautiously hopeful about Symbian^3 being usable. Unfortunately I won't be surprised if S^3 is as bad as S60 5th.	13:55
asj	PhonicUK: really? it sucks	13:55
RST38h	PhonicUK: 5800 is pretty much ok	13:55
PhonicUK	<3 webkit	13:55
MohammadAG	MiXu-, S60's good, for non touch phones	13:55
MiXu-	MohammadAG: Yes it is	13:56
PhonicUK	5800 = N97 w/o keyboard and 1/2 as much storage	13:56
RST38h	MiXu: I will be surprised if it is not	13:56
asj	PhonicUK: I'll admit I just want ABP	13:56
PhonicUK	very similar	13:56
PhonicUK	ABP?	13:56
RST38h	PhonicUK: But it works well	13:56
PhonicUK	indeed	13:56
RST38h	PhonicUK: Within the limits of S60 applicability of course	13:56
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asj	MohammadAG: I would disagree	13:56
RST38h	i.e. S60-based device is a PHOEN not a computer	13:56
MiXu-	And the good thing about Symbian is the maturity. If you compare a recent Symbian phone to Maemo, there are lots of things that Maemo doesn't do out of the box, but symbian does.	13:56
MiXu-	Like SyncML support for instance.	13:57
MiXu-	And Symbian phones tend to be better as _phones_ than N900 :)	13:57
PhonicUK	MiXu, I can't really say the same for N97 vs N900	13:57
PhonicUK	my N97 is really unreliable	13:57
RST38h	N900 is an ok phone really	13:57
RST38h	PhonicUK: As I said, get yourself a 5800	13:57
PhonicUK	The only thing bugging me with the N900 is the portrait mode bug	13:57
asj	MiXu-: symbian prioritizes tasks well, as such the audio doesn't break up, calls can be answered, etc. Maemo needs a lot of work there.	13:58
PhonicUK	Why get a 5800 if I have an N97 and an N900? :P	13:58
MiXu-	Ok, haven't tried N97 lately, so let's compare it to N95, which is old, but reliable.	13:58
k9	and the camera dont have timer in N900	13:58
PhonicUK	the N95 was cool	13:58
RST38h	N97 is a bad apple.	13:58
PhonicUK	quake 3 :)	13:58
PhonicUK	Like I said though, only reason I keep my N97 is for spotify	13:58
k9	N900 internet is faster thatn N97	13:58
PhonicUK	if we get a Maemo spotify client with offline support, its gone	13:58
PhonicUK	I may even end up writing it myself	13:58
RST38h	"Brazilians ordered to have more sex"	13:59
PhonicUK	you're reading The Register?	13:59
asj	n900 is missing gravity, sports tracker, ovi maps that doesn't suck	13:59
* RST38h is reading The Register		13:59
PhonicUK	:)	13:59
MohammadAG_	<k9> N900 internet is faster thatn N97	13:59
MohammadAG_	everything's faster than the N97	13:59
MohammadAG_	that thing's crap	13:59
* MohammadAG_ is talking from experience		14:00
PhonicUK	If the N97 had a GPU ala N95, it would have sold so much better	14:00
PhonicUK	then it would have some decent games	14:00
PhonicUK	that said some of the software renderers ive seen on it are pretty stunning	14:00
w00t_	even with a GPU, the phrase 'lipstick on a pig' comes to mind	14:00
k9	MohammadAG_: have you tried comparing the N97 and N900 internet connection? prove it	14:00
chadi	the N97 has an excellent slider, imo	14:00
PhonicUK	I like that the screen comes up at an angle	14:01
PhonicUK	k9, I have an N97 and N900 right in front of me	14:01
MiXu-	good point	14:01
PhonicUK	literally right now	14:01
chadi	but that's the only thing that's better than the N900	14:01
MohammadAG_	k9, umm, it is faster	14:01
PhonicUK	trust me the N900 wipes the floor with it	14:01
MiXu-	yes it does	14:01
MohammadAG_	indeed	14:01
MohammadAG_	the form factor rocked	14:02
PhonicUK	I'd have to use a Nokia 6650 Fold to make a video tho xD	14:02
MohammadAG_	but the widgets kill them self	14:02
MohammadAG_	cause of low RAM	14:02
MohammadAG_	fail ^	14:02
PhonicUK	128MB RAM, woo!	14:02
PhonicUK	It ran quake 2 really well though	14:02
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, megadrive at 15fps	14:02
k9	so N900 sucks?	14:02
k9	i was even planning to buy	14:02
tybollt	aaaaaagh buggy POS n900	14:02
* deegee_ loves his N900 :o)		14:03
w00t_	^	14:03
MohammadAG	k9, N900 ftw	14:03
chadi	deegee_++	14:03
MiXu-	N900 mostly rocks... I'm just hoping they've fixed the major bugs in PR1.2	14:03
PhonicUK	MohammadAG, Megadrive ran full speed for me	14:03
k9	ok ill buy iphone instead	14:03
tybollt	mixu++	14:03
hrw	I would not buy it again	14:03
PhonicUK	so long as I didn't use full screen (1:1 mode)	14:04
tybollt	hrw++	14:04
MiXu-	last night mine didn't charge at all	14:04
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, I used full screen	14:04
Khertan	http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/nokia-rolls-out-qt-sdk-for-unified-mobile-developer-experience/ <<< interesting	14:04
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tybollt	right now, I entered "add things to the desktop" mode and all of a sudden everything became un-tap-able, couldn't click on anything. However the bgd still scrolled if I made it	14:05
SpeedEvil	hmm. Rundown test - 71h connected to wifi. But that was starting at about 90% charge	14:05
tybollt	(It was right after installing OMW that this behaviour started, go figure)	14:05
SpeedEvil	(and using it for maybe an hour also)	14:05
asj	the more I look at the n8 the more I think it'll be a popular consumer phone, especially when it comes free on a plan	14:06
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* SpeedEvil wonders if the 12MP camera is in the same socket as the n900s...		14:07
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tybollt	speedy: The X6?	14:07
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asj	SpeedEvil: you wish ;)	14:07
PhonicUK	It's prolly 6MPx upscaled	14:07
k9	5MPx	14:08
tybollt	define 'upscale'?	14:08
SpeedEvil	asj: I doubt it, yeah	14:08
PhonicUK	software upscaled	14:08
tybollt	are there "true" 12MP cams and "upscaled" ones?	14:08
asj	they're advertising the large sensor, I wonder what the noise looks like	14:08
SpeedEvil	The n900 is a 'real' 5MP sensor.	14:08
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SpeedEvil	But - due to the lens - and physics - it gets ~2MP	14:08
PhonicUK	A lot of digi cams say "X mpixels" and says "Y mpixel sensor, upscalled to X mpixels"	14:09
PhonicUK	in the small print	14:09
tybollt	SpeedEvil: and still they brag hi and lo about the AWETASTIC!111 carl zeis lens?!	14:09
PhonicUK	hmm, the skin on my hand is peeling off...	14:10
asj	you mean the doublet from 1899?	14:10
MohammadAG	the N8 looks good	14:10
MohammadAG	on paper	14:10
Khertan	MohammadAG: in fact no ... it s doesn't run Maemo :)	14:10
SpeedEvil	tybollt: yes.	14:10
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tybollt	SpeedEvil: nokia for the lose!	14:11
MohammadAG	Khertan, on paper, as in hardware :)	14:11
MohammadAG	I'll pass	14:11
SpeedEvil	tybollt: It's like advertising that you've got a _really_good_ 1cm diameter penis.	14:11
k9	iphone is the best? dont u think	14:11
tybollt	SpeedEvil: DAMIT TO HELL! How did you know that? :-(	14:11
SpeedEvil	k9: nokia 3330	14:11
MohammadAG	k9 very wrong channel	14:11
Khertan	MohammadAG: my paper say : Symbian^3 :)	14:11
tybollt	;)	14:12
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MohammadAG	Khertan, burn it	14:12
Khertan	:)	14:12
k9	mohammand: why am i in a wrong channel? im only asking if whats the best mobile N series or Iphone	14:12
MohammadAG	let it burn in hell	14:12
MohammadAG	k9, the iPhone still can't properly multitask :)	14:12
^24seven	k9, depends what you want to do with it, and what you want from it	14:12
k9	tnx 24seven	14:13
Khertan	Connectors: HDMI, 3.5 mm AV connector <<< funny	14:13
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MohammadAG	Khertan, LOL	14:13
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MohammadAG	for the non HD TVs :)	14:13
Khertan	yep :)	14:14
Khertan	and i don't think that the output is really hd :)	14:14
MohammadAG	Khertan, it's zune "HD"	14:15
hrw	k9: nokia knows how to make big amounts of phones. but they forgot how to make good software for it.	14:15
hrw	k9: I think that there is only one branch of nokia phones which shows where nokia goes: S40	14:15
MohammadAG	Khertan, no one gives a crap about res looks at iPhone	14:16
Khertan	MohammadAG: yep	14:16
MohammadAG	Khertan, it has 256MBs of ram o.o	14:17
Khertan	:)	14:17
MohammadAG	the Omnia HD had that!	14:17
Khertan	it s really important to load this facebook website	14:18
MohammadAG	Khertan, mind typing the symbol between symbian and 3?	14:18
hrw	k9: maemo devices always suffered from lack of interest inside of nokia software teams. you can get apps which will never be finished and forget about good application from outside of nokia.	14:18
MohammadAG	(I broke the Sym char menu)	14:18
Khertan	hrw: hum ...	14:18
Khertan	MohammadAG: use copy / paste :)	14:19
Khertan	^^^^	14:19
k9	hrw: i guess your right, to much apps in maemo but not perfectly done	14:19
MohammadAG	Khertan, I found it lol	14:19
Khertan	:)	14:19
MohammadAG	Symbian^3	14:19
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MohammadAG	Khertan, copy and paste will work, till I need to copy something else	14:20
hrw	Khertan: I know that there are few good apps in extras. but I will never say that there are many apps for maemo	14:20
mece	is Qt SDK available to the general public?	14:21
Khertan	mece: it seems	14:21
MohammadAG	Qt SDK?	14:21
Khertan	http://get.qt.nokia.com/qtsdk/qt-sdk-win-opensource-2010.02.1.exe	14:21
MohammadAG	oh, that	14:21
Khertan	maybe we didn't talk about the same version	14:21
Khertan	:)	14:21
MohammadAG	Khertan, sure you're not infobot? :p	14:21
Khertan	no i'm just currently downloading it	14:22
Khertan	:)	14:22
MohammadAG	oh lol	14:22
k9	lol	14:22
mece	Khertan, thanks!	14:22
mece	LOL	14:22
Khertan	nope your welcome	14:22
MiXu-	Oooh! Nokia Qt SDK beta is out <3	14:22
Khertan	;)	14:22
MiXu-	at forum nokia	14:22
mece	Man i watched the promo vid and found myself strangely aroused.	14:22
MiXu-	mece: me too	14:23
MohammadAG	aroused o.O	14:23
MiXu-	There was no rally english in it. I'm surprised.	14:23
mece	hahah	14:23
crashanddie_	Khertan: t'es la?	14:23
mece	well the one guy with 25M downloads from ovi was a bit ralli	14:23
Khertan	crashanddie_: yep	14:23
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MiXu-	mece: That wasn't bad at all	14:23
mece	good servers... 4Mb/s	14:23
Khertan	mece: i give you the wrong link	14:24
Khertan	mece: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html	14:24
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Khertan	sorry	14:24
mece	so what did I download?	14:24
MohammadAG	Khertan, tsk tsk tsk, you're downloading it for windows then	14:24
mece	I have windows xp here at work actually, so it was the correct link. I was rather surprised that you knew that though :D	14:24
MiXu-	mece: No it's not the same as the one he pasted later	14:25
MiXu-	qt-sdk-win-opensource-2010.02.1.exe is the old one (the official one)	14:25
MiXu-	Or I don't know which one you're after :)	14:26
MiXu-	But the Nokia Qt SDK Beta was released today.	14:26
MiXu-	And it seems kick ass	14:26
mece	damn, I hope mece @ forum.nokia is me...	14:27
mece	I think it is.	14:27
Khertan	MohammadAG: yes as i'm at work	14:27
Khertan	:)	14:27
mece	well this was Qt SDK 2010.02.1	14:27
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mece	ok so I want the beta one.	14:27
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Anss\|	MiXu-, do you have a link?	14:27
MiXu-	http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/nokia-rolls-out-qt-sdk-for-unified-mobile-developer-experience/	14:28
Anss\|	thaanks	14:28
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MiXu-	There's also http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/Tools/IDEs/Nokia_Qt_SDK/	14:28
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MiXu-	There was some simulator in the video. Could that mean no more scratchbox? <3	14:29
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mece	shit. I think I resetted someone else's password...	14:29
MiXu-	lol	14:29
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mece	ok, I'm registered, downloading and ready to fuck things up!	14:33
mece	err.. Apologies for the swearing. Got a little carried away there. This is not twitter after all.	14:33
noobmonk3y	oo khertan is alive	14:34
MohammadAG__	it isn't?	14:34
* noobmonk3y waves frantically at khertan!		14:34
mece	LOL	14:34
* noobmonk3y bounces up and down		14:34
* MohammadAG__ was looking for the RT button		14:34
mece	hey n00bmonk3y, how do you develop pyqt? or is it pyside? My scratch said there were no qt libs available.	14:35
*** MohammadAG__ is now known as MohammadAG		14:35
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noobmonk3y	mece i do it in python idle (on win vista/7 pc) then winscp it across and test it on the device	14:35
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mece	ok.	14:35
noobmonk3y	initially i used qt designer to give me an idea, found it easier to hand code :P	14:35
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chadi	hey healthcheck ;)	14:36
mece	ye.. well trying qtsdk now. Let's see how it is.	14:36
noobmonk3y	lol i get called by the application name now lols!	14:36
noobmonk3y	ooo let me know how it goes	14:36
*** MohammadAG is now known as healthcheck		14:36
healthcheck	hey chadi	14:36
noobmonk3y	might try a re-install soon!	14:36
noobmonk3y	lol healthcheck	14:36
tybollt	hrrm, I entirely forgot which was the "good" MSN thingy?	14:36
*** healthcheck is now known as MohammadAG		14:36
chadi	haha	14:36
tybollt	pecan by any chance?	14:36
noobmonk3y	pecan pie?	14:36
mece	pecan be the good.	14:36
tybollt	~slap noobmonk3y	14:36
* infobot slaps noobmonk3y, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!		14:37
MohammadAG	makes you haze-y	14:37
* noobmonk3y winks at khertan...		14:37
mece	is pecan in extras btw? I was it was close recently.	14:37
MohammadAG	without being purple	14:37
noobmonk3y	\|fondle tybollt	14:37
noobmonk3y	meh	14:37
chadi	noobmonk3y: yea, you healthcheck led to a brick :P	14:37
tybollt	aaaw	14:37
mece	lol	14:37
noobmonk3y	~fondle tybollt	14:37
mece	wtf?	14:37
noobmonk3y	yay to fecked up keyboard languages	14:37
mece	healtcheck bricked?	14:37
noobmonk3y	nope	14:37
noobmonk3y	healthcheck works for me :D	14:37
tybollt	yes	14:37
chadi	mece nope	14:37
* MohammadAG sues noobmonk3y		14:37
mece	lolwut?	14:37
* noobmonk3y countersue's MohammadAG muhahahahaha		14:38
* MohammadAG demands 100000 slices of bacon		14:38
MohammadAG	crap	14:38
mece	mm bacon	14:38
* lcuk pre ordered the bacon		14:38
chadi	it told me that 95% of rootfs is busy, so i bricked my device after trying to free it :P	14:38
MohammadAG	LOL it really does ping lcuk	14:38
noobmonk3y	anyway who started an evil healthcheck bricking rumour?	14:38
noobmonk3y	lol!	14:38
mece	lcuk, with a side order of DNF?	14:38
tybollt	IIRC the guy who initially wrote lpurple wrote a drop in client for msn on the n900, not sure if it's pecan or haze :S	14:38
* noobmonk3y blames healthcheck		14:38
RST38h	lcuk: in bulk?	14:38
chadi	sure :P	14:38
* MohammadAG blames the guy who made healthcheck		14:38
mece	pecan is written by a former haze coder.	14:38
* noobmonk3y blames lcuk		14:38
mece	and pecan is the good one.	14:39
MohammadAG	sure let's blame him	14:39
* noobmonk3y needs bacon......		14:39
tybollt	~fondle mece's	14:39
tybollt	eeeeew ;)	14:39
noobmonk3y	chadi: is your device ok now?	14:39
* mece blames canada		14:39
* MohammadAG blames the ash cloud		14:39
noobmonk3y	mece: good idea	14:39
chadi	noobmonk3y nope, dowloading the binaries to reflash :P	14:40
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chadi	still in coma	14:40
MohammadAG	LOL	14:40
mece	mplayer is the only app that has really fracked up my precious.	14:40
noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: be the ash clouds fault.... that was lcuks fault..... so the world is lcuk 's fault?	14:40
* noobmonk3y eeeeeeeeek's		14:40
noobmonk3y	gl!	14:40
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chadi	thank you =)	14:40
tybollt	gl	14:40
tybollt	gg	14:40
MohammadAG	noobmonk3y, he taught sharks to shoot lasers	14:40
* noobmonk3y will not install mplayer, as the device media player suits my needs :D		14:40
noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: naaaa, that was mrs lcuk	14:41
lcuk	you guys doubted it? http://liqbase.net/irc.bacon.png	14:41
chadi	btw, noobmonk3y, i noticed that scrolling sucks; it sometimes moves after i pull out my finger from the screen	14:41
ShadowJK	mece: What did MPlayer do?	14:41
noobmonk3y	chadi: QT scrolling = fail	14:41
MohammadAG	lmfao	14:41
tybollt	lcuk++	14:41
noobmonk3y	any knowledgable PR1.2 / SDK people know if QT scrolling in lists is fixed soon?	14:42
chadi	noobmonk3y: QT scrolling or PyQT scrolling?	14:42
mece	ShadowJK, it made my device stop playing media.	14:42
noobmonk3y	chadi: QT i think	14:42
lcuk	noobmonk3y, whats wrong?	14:42
hrw	mplayer... someone know which params (ao/vo) should be used on n900?	14:42
noobmonk3y	lcuk: scrolling in healthcheck list box jumps around as and when it feels	14:42
MohammadAG	noobmonk3y, http://www.themadhat.com/images/flying-sharks.jpg	14:42
MohammadAG	+ lasers, yeah, blame lcuk	14:42
noobmonk3y	lol MohammadAG ! nice	14:43
chadi	noobmonk3y; also, i prefer the non-colored theme :P	14:43
mece	hrw, pupnik had some nice ones to bypass pulse..	14:43
noobmonk3y	chadi: Meh	14:43
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noobmonk3y	healthcheck = green, the governments will never catch on lol	14:43
lcuk	noobmonk3y, hes serious :p	14:43
lcuk	have a way to disable theme ;)	14:43
noobmonk3y	lcuk: i'm always serious :D	14:43
* mece likes his phone black.		14:43
ShadowJK	hrw, -ao pulse -vo xv:ck-method=auto	14:43
chadi	noobmonk3y and one last thing: while loading, it asks me to enable GPS settings, but I have them disabled. That's annoying :D	14:44
Ministeri	Hey. I'm creating few Maemo 5 -themes and I wanted to ask if it's possible to somehow create rounded borders on screen. Like in some earlier Maemo-version themes...	14:44
MohammadAG	<noobmonk3y> lcuk: i'm always serious :D	14:44
noobmonk3y	well... kinda hard not too :( - as it tests the gps settings :\|	14:44
MohammadAG	that worries me	14:44
Ministeri	Example pic: http://i43.tinypic.com/m9u7fd.png	14:44
mece	Qt sdk is humongous!	14:44
ShadowJK	mece, I guess either the alsa-plugin-pulse-alsa-audiodevice chain failed, or then X's xv driver wedged itself.. it shouldn't even be possible for MPlayer to cause problems that presist across reboots though :P	14:44
* noobmonk3y will think of a way to test GPS without using GPS one day... but for now, i'm not god :P		14:45
MohammadAG	noobmonk3y, tie it with 911	14:45
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noobmonk3y	:\|	14:45
chadi	noobmonk3y; not that I don't want it, I jsut don't have it available in my country :P	14:45
* MohammadAG hits GPS test		14:45
noobmonk3y	no gps chadi?	14:45
MohammadAG	"Dialing 911"	14:46
noobmonk3y	eeeeek.....	14:46
mece	ShadowJK, I tried rebooting, uninstalling reinstalling media players codecs and whatnot	14:46
hrw	ShadowJK: thx	14:46
RST38h	Ministeri: What theme is it???	14:46
mece	ShadowJK, had to flash the fkkr	14:46
noobmonk3y	chadi: since when did you live in atlantis?	14:46
mece	Ministeri, epic theme! What is it?	14:46
ShadowJK	MPlayer doesn't at all touch the default media player, and doesn't replace or use any of the codecs with the default media player	14:46
MohammadAG	noobmonk3y, seriously, they can check your location using GPS, just ask them if they can	14:46
noobmonk3y	lol MohammadAG - you can triangulate on cell towers i spose	14:46
chadi	noobmonk3y i'm in the country where 3G is not available, where 1mbit is the fastest internet connection, etc..	14:46
mece	ShadowJK, well that's what I installed, and that's what happened.	14:46
noobmonk3y	chadi: sounds very much like the UK to me ;)	14:47
MohammadAG	noobmonk3y, ask them for an exact location	14:47
MohammadAG	they'll get a bit bored after a while though	14:47
ShadowJK	mece, although if you have a video file on the device that the default media player can't play, then it kills itself :)	14:47
asj	chadi: sucks being in the USA eh?	14:47
noobmonk3y	chadi: - can make you a botched version without GPS if you want?	14:47
Ministeri	Mece, just a mockup. Maybe I will make it later.	14:47
mece	ShadowJK, the media player couldn't play ANYTHING	14:47
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chadi	noobmonk3y hah it's ok :p	14:47
mece	Ministeri, can you make it in obsidian too? I really like the flat buttons.	14:47
ShadowJK	mece, yeah that happens when you have a file it can't play anywhere on teh device :P	14:47
Ministeri	RST38h, It's not a theme. Just my mockup.	14:47
MohammadAG	botched lol	14:47
chadi	asj: yea, lots of tsunamis	14:48
ShadowJK	it's a bug, fixed in PR1.2 maybe	14:48
RST38h	Ministeri: Ah please make it a theme =)~~~	14:48
mece	ShadowJK, interesting.	14:48
ShadowJK	hey, how come nobody has made "Fixed in PR1.2" t-shirts yet?	14:48
chadi	haha	14:48
MohammadAG	rofl	14:48
asj	ShadowJK: I'll buy one	14:48
mece	ShadowJK, to replace the fixed in fremantle ones?	14:48
ShadowJK	mece, yeah :)	14:48
Stskeeps	i have a FiF tshit	14:48
Stskeeps	:P	14:48
Ministeri	Is there somewhere template.png -file of original Maemo5-theme, not SDK?	14:48
* noobmonk3y has a fixed in pr1.2 tatoo on his...... erm... anyone fancy changing subject?		14:48
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asj	noobmonk3y: no	14:49
* noobmonk3y grins		14:49
* noobmonk3y is going for some fresh air brb		14:49
mece	"fresh" air?	14:49
noobmonk3y	oh MohammadAG - got python pong working hehe	14:49
mece	pypong	14:50
lcuk	noobmonk3y pongs	14:50
mece	haha	14:50
* noobmonk3y 's first attempt at pygame		14:50
mece	so,, you're working on a python port of iphoneOS?	14:50
MohammadAG	infobot, ping	14:50
infobot	~pong	14:50
noobmonk3y	mece: as supposed to the fake fresh air non smokers breath in	14:50
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mece	noobmonk3y, exactly :D	14:51
mece	except opposed not supposed	14:51
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noobmonk3y	lols	14:51
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chadi	when is the hong kong release of PR1.2?	14:53
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MohammadAG	29 feb	14:54
MohammadAG	Tue Apr 27 14:54:20 IDT 2010	14:54
chadi	same day of ubuntu's new LTS	14:54
MohammadAG	o.O	14:54
MohammadAG	10.04?	14:54
chadi	yeah	14:54
MohammadAG	that broke xephyr for me lol	14:54
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chadi	the beta?	14:55
* frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a trout		14:55
MohammadAG	chadi, yeah	14:55
MohammadAG	but plymouth was ftw	14:56
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chadi	I don't try betas :P	14:56
chadi	53mbs left for the *.bin!	14:58
ShadowJK	hm, are there any bugs that are fixed in >PR1.2?	14:58
chadi	ShadowJK yeah, PR 1.3 :P	14:59
tybollt	PR 1.3 is a bug?	14:59
* noobmonk3y slaps frals with a dolphin		14:59
tybollt	frals?	14:59
ShadowJK	maybe we can make "fixed in PR1.3" tshirts at the same time then	14:59
tybollt	why are you slaping him?	14:59
chadi	tybollt a virtual one	14:59
frals	why shouldnt i?	15:00
asj	ShadowJK: how about PR2.0?	15:00
noobmonk3y	good point well made frals	15:00
lcuk	frals, \o	15:00
frals	o/	15:00
noobmonk3y	o/\o	15:01
tybollt	\\o	15:01
tybollt	o//	15:01
ShadowJK	asj, I wouldn't dare assume there'll be a 2.0 :P	15:01
Appiah	We will get Duke Nukeem forever with PR 2.0	15:02
* Appiah ducks		15:02
MohammadAG	PR2.0 will have a built in PS3 emulator	15:03
RST38h	Shockingly Bowness, now Lady Sinclair, had a Commodore computer as a child, not a ZX Spectrum	15:03
noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: PR 2.0 will be a PS4 you mean?! lol	15:03
crashanddie_	Hey guys, how would I go about re-creating the same kind of interface as the SMS conversations?	15:03
crashanddie_	(pymaemo / gtk)	15:03
RST38h	MohammadAG: And 5 cute little kittens!	15:03
MohammadAG	noobmonk3y, that's PR2.1	15:03
noobmonk3y	crashanddie_: ask frals	15:03
crashanddie_	I want to do it very simply, I'm guessing a pannable area, but how do I create each SMS?	15:03
lcuk	crashanddie_, pyqt would be preferable perhaps	15:03
MohammadAG	RST38h, screw kittens, I want laser shooting penguins	15:04
crashanddie_	lcuk: nha just want to throw something together without too many dependencies	15:04
* noobmonk3y lthinks a'lotta looping through the sqlite db?!		15:04
auenf	create it as a html page then ;)	15:04
RST38h	MohammadAG: Promised to us by Maemo Devices since Maemo5	15:04
RST38h	(check #maemo logs for the proof)	15:04
lcuk	what was promised!	15:04
MohammadAG	lol	15:04
noobmonk3y	frikkin laser shooting penguins!	15:05
* frals holds noobmonk3y responsible		15:05
RST38h	lcuk: the laser shooting penguins	15:05
*** fipu\|Away is now known as fipu		15:05
lcuk	oh yeah those	15:05
lcuk	have you ever tried to herd penguins	15:05
lcuk	worse than gerbils	15:05
noobmonk3y	gerbils mating with laser penguins = fecked up!	15:05
lcuk	at least they come out cooked	15:05
mece	hey what's a standard font on N900?	15:06
mece	like the aliases..	15:06
Anss\|	noobmonk3y, you mean tux? :)	15:06
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mece	ther eis monotype.. what is the standard variable width font called?	15:06
MohammadAG	<noobmonk3y> gerbils mating with laser penguins = fecked up! lmao	15:06
crashanddie_	sometimes the documentation doesn't make a lot of sense	15:07
lcuk	mece, nokia sans afaik	15:07
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crashanddie_	"Never use <this>, you should use <this>"	15:07
crashanddie_	(and <this> is the same both times)	15:07
* MohammadAG misses the "The next episode is about to begin" ads		15:08
* noobmonk3y grins		15:08
noobmonk3y	tux is a cross between a gerbil and a frikkin laser shooting penguin?	15:09
noobmonk3y	wow!	15:09
MohammadAG	noobmonk3y, he shoots fireballs in SuperTux	15:09
tybollt	tux is Linus Torvalds inbred brother	15:09
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jcrawford	hell yea just got the email that my N900 should be here over the next 2 weeks :)	15:10
jcrawford	cannot wait for it	15:10
auenf	email from?	15:11
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tybollt	fast forward two months and jcrawford will be lamenting about the POS that is N900 and no PR1.2 yet in here ;)	15:11
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jcrawford	lol what is PR1.2?	15:12
jcrawford	idc if it sux it's free for me so i cannot complain :)(	15:12
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MohammadAG	who doesn't know PR1.2	15:12
Anss\|	legend says that penguin called tux shot linus with freaking lazer at zoo :)	15:12
auenf	ahh, free n900	15:12
auenf	that explains why the lack of actualy knowledge of the device	15:13
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k9	jcrawford: im selling my N900	15:13
k9	jcrawford: where you from?	15:13
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jcrawford	k9, USA	15:16
jcrawford	auenf, sure i have not looked at the device much. I plan to do that once it is in hand. No sense looking into developing without the phone in hand :)	15:16
jcrawford	so seriously what is PR1.2?	15:17
auenf	there is about 500 threads about PR1.2, start researching	15:17
tybollt	auenf: PR1.2 being looked forward to? You don't say! :)	15:19
jcrawford	so there are a lot of issues currently with the N900 firmware?	15:19
lcuk	jcrawford, its the next iteration	15:20
*** sar3th\|away is now known as sar3th		15:20
auenf	not really issues	15:20
noobmonk3y	jcrawford: my N900 thinks it is a saheep, i'm told PR1.2 will fix it	15:20
noobmonk3y	sheep*	15:20
* noobmonk3y also can't type		15:20
jcrawford	lol	15:20
auenf	but PR1.2 will add some things that people seem to have trouble waiting for	15:20
* noobmonk3y grumbles		15:20
lcuk	my lego men arrived \o/	15:20
noobmonk3y	healthcheck had 55k downloads yesterday, today it has 53k.........	15:21
frals	lol	15:21
MohammadAG	lmfao	15:21
jcrawford	heh funny I work @ Nokia but not in the devices department (which is why i am in the dark on this stuff)	15:21
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MohammadAG	which dep then?	15:21
jcrawford	OviStore	15:21
noobmonk3y	omg	15:21
* noobmonk3y rants at jcrawford		15:21
MohammadAG	do us all a favor and burn it down	15:21
jcrawford	lol i know i know	15:21
noobmonk3y	why the fuckles do they sell media for the n900 that it can't use!	15:21
Scelt	jcrawford: where's ovi maps 3 for n900?	15:22
jcrawford	the current solution sucks, we are hard at work though so you should see it straighten out soon	15:22
noobmonk3y	yay!	15:22
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jcrawford	Scelt, i have no idea and even if i did my NDA would restrict me from saying	15:22
noobmonk3y	the last time i've heard nokia and soon in a sentence it had PR1.2 in it	15:22
MohammadAG	jcrawford, may I suggest something?	15:22
Ken-Young	jcrawford, Wow - The OVI store may be the least popular part of Nokia for N900 users.	15:22
Scelt	jcrawford: I think it's in bit space :P	15:22
Stskeeps	jcrawford: that was brave to admit in public	15:22
Stskeeps	:P	15:22
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noobmonk3y	lol :D	15:22
MohammadAG	I doubt it will be taken into account though	15:22
jcrawford	noobmonk3y, that was the way the store was designed, soon you will only see products your device can install	15:22
* tybollt bets a fiver jcrawford is in marketing		15:22
noobmonk3y	lol - strangely i still have no angst against jcrawford .... :P	15:23
* chadi pokes healthcheck		15:23
jcrawford	;p marketing I think NOT	15:23
* MohammadAG asks again		15:23
* noobmonk3y kicks healthcheck into submission		15:23
MohammadAG	jcrawford, may I suggest something?	15:23
jcrawford	MohammadAG, sure so long as you know i will take it like a grain of salt :)	15:23
* noobmonk3y tweeting "nokia asking for an N8 to test healthcheck on... no answer - hehehe		15:23
* MohammadAG wonders if he's on ignore		15:23
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MohammadAG	lol	15:23
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noobmonk3y	lol!	15:23
jcrawford	if it is a serious suggestion I will make it through the chain of command though	15:23
chadi	noobmonk3y M8 is symbian :P	15:23
noobmonk3y	i know chadi	15:24
chadi	no health to check	15:24
noobmonk3y	yeah there is :P	15:24
MohammadAG	jcrawford, make an app that locks a directory, gets debs into it, installs them, then clears the directory and unlocks it	15:24
mece	healthcheck is qt :P	15:24
noobmonk3y	lol MohammadAG	15:24
noobmonk3y	so mece?	15:24
MohammadAG	i'm serious	15:24
noobmonk3y	what did nokia release today?	15:24
noobmonk3y	it should work if i faff with the variables	15:24
mece	noobmonk3y, shouldn't that work on n8?	15:24
jcrawford	yes while the current OviStore sucks (for all devices) a new improved version is in the works (no release dates from me though) but know that stuff should get better soon.	15:24
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MohammadAG	jcrawford, basically like the current apt, but with a non user readable directory	15:24
noobmonk3y	mece: the screen etc will - but the specifics to maem owill bomb it out	15:25
jcrawford	MohammadAG, that would be a suggestion for the Maemo team not the OviStore team :)	15:25
chadi	what's with nokia and the release dates?	15:25
mece	jcrawford, it can't suck that bad though. I hear someone is getting their software.	15:25
noobmonk3y	jcrawford: a suggestion for both to talk to each other ;)	15:25
auenf	nokia have never had release dates	15:25
MohammadAG	jcrawford, what's the ovi store team for then?	15:25
jcrawford	I will see if I can dig out some contacts for you though	15:25
MohammadAG	(maemo related)	15:25
MohammadAG	lol noobmonk3y	15:25
jcrawford	MohammadAG, we develop the store which interacts with devices	15:25
jcrawford	you would want to talk to the OviStore Client Development team for Maemo	15:26
Scelt	jcrawford: no you don't, you irc with maemo fans	15:26
* noobmonk3y loves big companies.... it's as though the left hand doesnt know the right hand exists but they can both scratch the same butt cheek and forehead		15:26
MohammadAG	is there a client?	15:26
* tybollt is actually waiting for a blog from Ari... "What PR1.2? We never promised such a thing! Forget it people, it's Harmattan and N910 from this point forward!"		15:26
MohammadAG	LOL noobmonk3y	15:26
jcrawford	MohammadAG, honestly I am not sure how the N900 works yet but yes most phones have a native store client, those who don't use the mobi site	15:26
noobmonk3y	ahhhh :D	15:26
MohammadAG	jcrawford, it uses a mobile site that downloads .install files	15:26
jcrawford	lol noobmonk3y	15:26
MohammadAG	which is... very slow	15:27
noobmonk3y	jcrawford: welcome by the way :D - kinda good to hear from other perspectives	15:27
jcrawford	MohammadAG, I am not sure if that will change or not in the future but I will discuss this with the Mobi team in that case	15:27
* MohammadAG wants someone from Nokia in here		15:27
chadi	why don't we have the maemo source code available so that we fix our own bugs?	15:27
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MohammadAG	chadi, you wish	15:27
jcrawford	MohammadAG, please email me, email coming through now	15:27
MohammadAG	but seriously	15:27
noobmonk3y	chadi: you do, except for the closed source parts	15:27
MohammadAG	ah crap	15:27
andre__	chadi: what maemo source exactly?	15:28
MohammadAG	infobot, openness	15:28
Stskeeps	~openness	15:28
noobmonk3y	~FOSS	15:28
infobot	foss is probably Free and Open Source Software	15:28
noobmonk3y	maybe?	15:28
noobmonk3y	lol	15:28
chadi	andre__ like everything, i'd like to take a look	15:28
tybollt	~scratch butcheek	15:28
* infobot shreds butcheek's backside		15:28
Stskeeps	infobot, openness is http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html	15:28
noobmonk3y	chadi: most of it is available :D	15:28
infobot	okay, Stskeeps	15:28
MohammadAG	infobot, openness	15:28
noobmonk3y	lol Stskeeps	15:28
infobot	somebody said openness was http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html	15:28
noobmonk3y	'somebody'	15:29
Stskeeps	chadi: -> that page	15:29
chadi	noobmonk3y fine, i'll google	15:29
MohammadAG	noobmonk3y, alzeheimer	15:29
chadi	Stskeeps okay thanks	15:29
* MohammadAG corrects typos		15:29
andre__	chadi: like 80% of everything is available already.	15:29
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* MohammadAG grumbles at SSU		15:29
DocScrutinizer	~tell Stskeeps about maemo-obsolete	15:29
chadi	andre__ and can I rebuild what I want?	15:30
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MohammadAG	chadi, yes	15:30
Stskeeps	andre__: 80% of the platform, yes :P	15:30
MohammadAG	you can't SSU if you break the metapackage though	15:30
andre__	Stskeeps, ah, okay :-P	15:30
chadi	andre__ makes me want to fix that annoying skype bug	15:30
MohammadAG	skype's closed	15:30
MohammadAG	as telepathy-spirit	15:30
Stskeeps	andre__: (which is another magic number)	15:30
andre__	chadi, if you convince Skype to release their code, go ahead ;-)	15:31
chadi	meh	15:31
DocScrutinizer	skype's soooo closed they even crypt the ELF	15:31
MohammadAG	lol	15:31
frals	"someone else should do it i just like to whine"	15:31
frals	;)	15:31
Shapeshifter	skype is evil	15:31
DocScrutinizer	no kidding	15:31
MohammadAG	skype's good	15:32
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chadi	andre__ so what happens exactly when they have a bug? the maemo team asks skype to fix that and skype releases a binary to test?	15:32
andre__	depends on where exactly the bug is, I'd say.	15:32
Stskeeps	sounds reasonable	15:32
SpeedEvil	chadi: yes	15:32
MiXu-	Is anyone using PC or Ovi Suite with N900?	15:32
MiXu-	Which one is better?	15:33
MohammadAG	neither	15:33
andre__	:-P	15:33
tybollt	MiXu-: PC Suite _can_ backup the n900	15:33
noobmonk3y	MiXu-: pcsuite	15:33
andre__	MiXu-, depends on which OS you're on, I'd say.	15:33
noobmonk3y	ovi suite always fails :(	15:33
tybollt	MiXu-: ovi suite is entirely incompatible at all levels w/ the n900	15:33
MohammadAG	noobmonk3y, both fail :P	15:33
noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: fails	15:33
MohammadAG	even with my N97 they failed	15:33
tybollt	that is the greatest farce there is about the N900	15:33
noobmonk3y	frals: fails even worse	15:33
MiXu-	tybollt: Ah, I see	15:33
tybollt	it is !compatible w/ everything ovi	15:34
frals	oi shutup noobmonk3y	15:34
nid0	the fact that 2 pieces of software even exist is the biggest fail	15:34
* MohammadAG does a /cs kickban noobmonk3y how dare you!		15:34
MiXu-	nid0: I agree	15:34
noobmonk3y	~bitch-slap frals	15:34
noobmonk3y	lols	15:34
nid0	one of the original reasons of the ovi suite was to amalgamate the 54689034680349034 different pieces of pc software nokia have	15:34
noobmonk3y	\|hug frals	15:34
noobmonk3y	~hug frals	15:34
tybollt	in essence... nokia flagship is not compatible (after half a year on the market) w/ their flagship appstore/framework	15:34
* infobot gets a running start and tackle-hugs frals		15:34
noobmonk3y	yay!~	15:34
frals	~nuke noobmonk3y	15:34
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at noobmonk3y ... B☢☢M!		15:34
nid0	now theres just 54689034680349034 + 12	15:34
nid0	+1*	15:34
tybollt	that is so entirely gruesomely pathetic and embarasing	15:34
Stskeeps	where did n900 get stated as a flagship btw?	15:34
Stskeeps	:P	15:34
nid0	nowhere	15:34
noobmonk3y	slight difference between a tackle-hug and a 100 missiles i feel	15:35
nid0	people just assume	15:35
Arkenoi	scp'ing media files to n900 sucks	15:35
tybollt	Stskeeps: I stand corrected... :) It's a flagshit ;)	15:35
noobmonk3y	Arkenoi: does it? works for me	15:35
Arkenoi	damn indexer tries to pick them up as they go and slows everything down	15:35
nid0	mass storage mode usb transfers are the way to move lots of media	15:35
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Corsac	current flagship device is N8 according to google	15:36
* noobmonk3y looks at frals......... get of that penguin you sick sick thing :P		15:36
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tybollt	it is as if the n900/maemo is the kid nokia never wish to have given birth to and now they do everything they can to adopt it away.	15:36
MiXu-	Boooo! You can't use the Nokia Qt SDK Beta with a PR1.1.1 :D	15:37
MiXu-	I want that damn PR1.2 already	15:37
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Corsac	pr1.2 is overrated	15:37
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DocScrutinizer	where's the thread on tmo where all the adds spotted out in the wild fot N900 are collected? Flagship? pfff!	15:37
MiXu-	Corsac: It isn't. My app requires it to run.	15:37
SpeedEvil	If you write a sybian Qt app - how muh porting is there to put it on n900?	15:37
MiXu-	Depends on the UI	15:38
MiXu-	Or no. It should scale up just fine.	15:38
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DocScrutinizer	moin SpeedEvil	15:39
frals	noobmonk3y: not much else to do here in hel!	15:39
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*** aloisiojr2 has joined #maemo		15:39
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noobmonk3y	lol!	15:39
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DocScrutinizer	~nuke indexer & thumbnailer	15:40
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at indexer & thumbnailer ... B☢☢M!		15:40
MohammadAG	just nuke tracker	15:40
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DocScrutinizer	product of a schizoid wino on crack	15:41
crashanddie_	holy fucking shit	15:42
crashanddie_	they're opening up a human dead body, live on australian television	15:43
crashanddie_	they're actually removing the spinal chord as we speak	15:43
chem\|st	crashanddie_: record it pls	15:43
crashanddie_	in a hotel mate	15:43
auenf	Poll: Problems with N900 USB port becoming broken / loose and resulting warranty & repair issues 1,337 replies	15:43
auenf	bam?	15:43
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Stskeeps	meh, our christmas lunches at my previous work had hip surgery videos as entertainment	15:43
crashanddie_	and obviously it's a german doctor	15:43
Stskeeps	:P	15:43
Lynoure	crashanddie_: it's called autopsy. and it's not shockingly new invention =) Unless they use N900 do do it.	15:43
crashanddie_	Lynoure: the body is held upright by the head	15:44
crashanddie_	Lynoure: and skinned	15:44
SpeedEvil	auenf: A lot of that is really random crap - not people reporting 'my n900 broke'	15:44
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: and alive?	15:44
auenf	crashanddie_, its a repeat	15:44
crashanddie_	probably	15:44
auenf	Anatomy for Beginners (Movement)	15:44
auenf	Professor Gunther von Hagens performs dissections on real human bodies, laying bare the intricacy of human design. During each episode, von Hagens focuses on a different set of anatomical systems: movement, circulation, digestion and reproduction. In this episode, he dissects a man to explain how the human body moves in great detail. \| Documentary, Medical, Documentaries, ScienceNatureTechnology \| Repeat \| MA n, MA	15:44
SpeedEvil	auenf: it's preople asking - every page - 'how many n900s have this problem' and stating 'the n900 sucks', and ...	15:45
crashanddie_	auenf: watching it?	15:45
auenf	SpeedEvil, i know the thread, its 1337 repies of crap	15:45
auenf	just noticed the number ;)	15:45
SpeedEvil	auenf: oh	15:45
SpeedEvil	auenf: I missed that.	15:45
auenf	crashanddie_, its a repeat, no need to see it again	15:45
MohammadAG	1337? xD	15:45
chem\|st	MohammadAG: aware of ;)	15:46
SpeedEvil	auenf: I thought you were just commenting ont he apparant unreliuability from over 1000 comments	15:46
auenf	the unreliability of the maemo forums, yes, not the device	15:46
chem\|st	that guy did the body worlds exhebitions	15:47
RST38h	imported Chinese corpses for his "art"...	15:47
chem\|st	RST38h: its not art its science	15:48
Scelt	http://www.anand-topalov.com/en/live.html	15:48
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frals	fuckin hell my flight not on the board yet	15:50
frals	time to lose the shirt i think	15:50
jcrawford	sorry back	15:50
tybollt	frals: where you at?	15:50
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frals	hel vantta	15:51
crashanddie_	frals: I spent 17 hours waiting in an airport last time	15:51
jcrawford	time to get to work, be back later :)	15:51
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MiXu-	Hmm. The new Qt Simulator is total crap.	15:51
lcuk	frals you will be arrested if you start stripping off lol	15:51
crashanddie_	frals: after a 26 hour flight around the world	15:51
frals	lol lcuk you speak from experience i recon	15:52
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MiXu-	In the simulator my app doesn't look anything like it looks like on the N900.	15:52
frals	crashanddie_: sounds... ><	15:52
lcuk	lol frals yup	15:52
frals	lol	15:52
crashanddie_	frals: he was in need of bacon	15:52
crashanddie_	frals: showing his fat wasn't an option though	15:52
frals	:D	15:52
lcuk	crashanddie_, did they let you take the handcuffs off?	15:52
crashanddie_	lcuk: nha, i'm tongue-typing	15:53
frals	first battery down to 20ish percent hmm	15:53
crashanddie_	it's weird because for the first few days you taste all the residue in the keyboard	15:53
frals	should get the other one from the bag probably	15:53
crashanddie_	but after a while you can get pretty good at it	15:53
mece	MiXu-, it didn't work on this computer. Some profile errors. It's a mess :/	15:53
lcuk	hot swap batteries gunclip style would be beneficial	15:53
MohammadAG	lcuk, I suggested that :P	15:54
MohammadAG	then mod a bullet belt	15:54
MohammadAG	and attach it	15:54
MiXu-	they should've just left the simulator out completely	15:54
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MohammadAG	make it vibrate on each battery changed	15:54
lcuk	mms brings on new meaning	15:54
DocScrutinizer	jcrawford: god to have you around here	15:54
DocScrutinizer	good even	15:54
lcuk	multimedia by munitions service	15:54
tybollt	frals: so there's still that clous BS then?	15:54
tybollt	frals: I don't get it (I just got home by bus, last wednesday) I thought the flights were bussiness as usual?	15:55
frals	they are	15:56
frals	im just early :D	15:56
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MohammadAG	who's working on live wallpapers here?	15:56
* MohammadAG has a suggestion :P		15:56
MohammadAG	instead of moving desktops, move widgets, that way the wallpapers run on all 4 "desktops"	15:57
jcrawford	thanks'	15:57
X-Fade	MohammadAG: live wallpapers should work on all desktops.	15:57
mece	MohammadAG, lcuk, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSLaggKfkks	15:57
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Should not be limited to just one.	15:58
mece	in the movie genre retarded-awesome	15:58
MohammadAG	X-Fade, my suggestion saves battery life	15:58
MohammadAG	instead of running 4 live wallpapers	15:58
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MohammadAG	it's one, for all 4 widget screens	15:58
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Nah, everything that is not in sight, is not running.	15:58
MohammadAG	X-Fade, and how would they time them to run without any frame drops while swiping :)	15:59
SpeedEvil	http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1231587/	15:59
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lcuk	o_O eye tracking, only turn o nthe screen if people are looking at it :D	16:00
DocScrutinizer	wtf is a live wallpaper? they didn't kill the trees before gluing them to the wall?	16:00
lcuk	active content on the background layer of desktops	16:01
DocScrutinizer	eeek	16:01
SpeedEvil	lcuk: you mean porn.	16:01
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lcuk	but active may simply be "change wallpaper every 4 hours"	16:01
MiXu-	Live wallpaper has got to be the most useless feature ever.	16:01
DocScrutinizer	you bet	16:01
* tybollt bets		16:02
tybollt	what am I betting on doc?	16:02
lirakis	MiXu- only if its useless wallpaper	16:02
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MohammadAG	mece, seriously? lol	16:02
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lcuk	many things in life are folly :)	16:02
MiXu-	What would be a useful wallpaper then? :D	16:02
lirakis	MiXu- if there was a live map that always update your position	16:02
lirakis	... that would be sweet	16:02
DocScrutinizer	on maximum uselessness always making it on the top	16:02
lirakis	i live in NYC ... that would be a really nice feature to have....	16:03
lirakis	i know there is a map widget ... but goes to sleep.... and doesnt update unless you tell it to	16:03
lcuk	lirakis, until the widgets ontop cover your street and you get annoyed :p	16:03
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, it can be helpful	16:03
MiXu-	That would be useful, yes. But that would mean you'd be able to use the device for 2 hours instead of 4.	16:03
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lirakis	lcuk ... for quick reference	16:03
lcuk	MiXu-, its not forced	16:03
* MohammadAG sets an exam presentation as a live wallpaper		16:03
lirakis	MiXu-, if you used coarse location?	16:03
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lcuk	some people sit with devices plugged in and WANT to run supreme quick idle time things	16:03
MiXu-	lirakis: Hmm. Good point.	16:04
mece	MohammadAG, I was thinking reloading batteries. :)	16:04
MiXu-	It would still have to update quite frequently to be useful	16:04
lcuk	lirakis, of course	16:04
MohammadAG	mece, still, seriously? lol	16:04
lirakis	MiXu-, yeah .. every 5 min. or some thing	16:04
MiXu-	yes	16:04
lirakis	i mean.. ive seen it on the nexus one - its pretty sweet	16:04
SpeedEvil	MiXu-: I did a 0th cut of that - but I accidentally deelted the script	16:04
mece	MohammadAG, err. no. not seriously. Your gunbelt of batteries talk just reminded me of that.	16:04
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DocScrutinizer	ooh f*********ck	16:05
SpeedEvil	MiXu-: starting maemo mapper brings up the GPS	16:05
MiXu-	Might be an idea worth developing	16:05
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SpeedEvil	MiXu-: then you kill it a little bit later, and read the current possition from gcong	16:05
SpeedEvil	f	16:05
SpeedEvil	getting a couple of tiles from openstreetmap is then quite easy	16:05
lirakis	I do wish there was a good google maps app.... its really, almost pointless to work with ovi ... they are light years behind	16:05
mece	DocScrutinizer, what the f********ck is up?	16:05
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DocScrutinizer	almost as cute as a torchlight app creating a white screen with the help of 42MB libliq	16:06
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MiXu-	lol	16:06
lcuk	oi!	16:06
DocScrutinizer	live wallpapers :-(	16:06
lcuk	i reduced the size, its 41mb now	16:06
MiXu-	DocScrutinizer: Well said :D	16:06
mece	LOOOOL	16:06
wazd	DocScrutinizer: what's wrong with them?	16:07
lirakis	lcuk the widget would be for quick reference, and basically keeping your location up to date - so if you tapped on it, it would load the "real" maps app with your location already populated -hopefully making it start quite quickly since it doesnt have to get a lock	16:07
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MohammadAG	wazd, he hates live trees	16:07
wazd	MohammadAG: ah, never mind then :D	16:08
lcuk	lirakis, then that already exists as a widget tho? as a live background sure its feasible tho	16:08
lirakis	basically... if the current maps widget could go full screen on the lowest layer and not sleep..	16:08
DocScrutinizer	'while true; do $(( 331 / 113 )); done -> teawarmer app (much better than live wallpaper)	16:08
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lcuk	DocScrooge - should we make you a pipe and slippers app? :D	16:09
mece	hee	16:09
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lcuk	(wouldnt be too bad actually)	16:09
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mece	DocScrutinizer, I'm so packaging that and putting that in extras devel.	16:09
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cityLights	hi all , can I limit the size the RSS client consumes in the N900?	16:09
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cityLights	so it will remove old RSS to make room for new?	16:09
mece	DocScrutinizer, reqrite it so that is requires libliq too :)	16:09
DocScrutinizer	mece: don't forget proper credit ;-P	16:09
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mece	Actually, I have an even better idea. I create a random 300 or so Mb file and parse something from that. That way the download size is also epic.	16:10
SpeedEvil	lirakis: that would use a ridiculous amount of power	16:11
lirakis	SpeedEvil: again.. with coarse navigation?	16:11
SpeedEvil	lirakis: you need to poll every few mins	16:11
lirakis	my g1 can do it	16:11
lirakis	not wallpaper ...	16:11
lirakis	but i can leave maps open	16:11
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SpeedEvil	Lira: how often does it update?	16:12
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SpeedEvil	lirakis: polling every 60s - or when movement is sensed - isn't horribly hard	16:12
lirakis	SpeedEvil, not 100% sure, but it seems to look like its polling all the time	16:12
lcuk	hahahahahaha @sjgadsby frals Nothing for 4.5 hours? C'mon, you can crank out a good six or seven new releases of fMMS in that block of time!	16:13
X-Fade	hehe	16:13
SpeedEvil	Some of it involves stuff the modem does.	16:13
lirakis	SpeedEvil, I wish that was built into maemo actually ... a location updater with a system setting that you could specify the frequency of updating coarse, and fine locations	16:14
tybollt	!¤)%("#)=¤)#¤	16:14
SpeedEvil	lirakis: this is not controlled by maemo. the phone runs the GPS - which is in some ways annoying	16:14
lirakis	So that all apps could just reference the system	16:14
tybollt	"hildon-home is not responding - do you want to close the application"	16:14
SpeedEvil	yes!	16:14
tybollt	what - the - flying - fuck?	16:14
Khertan	yes !	16:14
tybollt	I never had that before?	16:14
MohammadAG	widgets	16:14
SpeedEvil	hildon-home is the window manager basicallt?	16:14
MohammadAG	err no	16:15
MohammadAG	that's -desktop	16:15
SpeedEvil	oh	16:15
tybollt	yeah	16:15
tybollt	the desktop	16:15
tybollt	but seriously	16:15
tybollt	what the hell	16:15
* DocScrutinizer moans at lirakis		16:15
tybollt	only widget installed == om weather	16:15
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frals	so appearently the security personel didnt appreciate me forgetting my bottle of water in my bag	16:15
tybollt	(yes, I didnät have this problem until I installed omweather today!)	16:15
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tybollt	frals: dude	16:16
lirakis	yeah ... having had a G1 and nexus one, maps and location are the biggest wins android has over the n900.	16:16
tybollt	frals: that's is no kidding	16:16
lcuk	o_O frals the security person who passed me through gave me a withering look as i forgot it and then laughed :D	16:16
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lcuk	.helsinki was bad for security tho	16:16
lcuk	having to take big heavy boots off	16:16
frals	they said something which sounded v. rude in finnish first	16:16
lcuk	im surprised the guards didnt have gasmasks	16:16
tybollt	in egypt In egypt two weeks ago it was more like "Got water bottle? I got AK47, you wanna try me?"	16:17
DocScrutinizer	lirakis: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API	16:17
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frals	when i answered in english they were like "do you have a bottle in there" and i go "opsi, yeah just water, you can have it no worries"	16:17
SpeedEvil	tybollt: the water bottle thing is ridiculous	16:17
SpeedEvil	tybollt: especially given that if you're motivated, you could conceal one.	16:17
frals	she realised i wasnt a bomber i think because after that i got to go :p	16:17
lirakis	DocScrutinizer, checking it out	16:17
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tybollt	SpeedEvil: Sir, I do not fuck around w/ an egyptian dude pointing an AK47 at me :-)	16:17
Anss\|	lolcation api?	16:17
Anss\|	err.. i mean...	16:18
tybollt	SpeedEvil: but yes - I entirely agree w/ you.	16:18
lirakis	its kinda wonky that the core is c and the qt is c++ (shrug)	16:18
frals	also, easy to spot the swedes here	16:18
frals	everyone one with a sony ericsson phone has been speaking swedish :D	16:19
lirakis	DocScrutinizer, so i see it "Shares" fixes via a signal - but is there any way to specify update increments?	16:20
lirakis	oops	16:20
lirakis	just needed to keep reading	16:20
lirakis	... one momnet :P	16:20
DocScrutinizer	yessir	16:20
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lirakis	So, there is no built in location daemon in the system ?	16:22
SpeedEvil	lirakis: yes - it's location proxy - and it shares it by dbus	16:23
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SpeedEvil	lirakis: this talks to the cellphone - which runs the GPS	16:23
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lirakis	SpeedEvil, so... why on earth does OVI maps take so long to start up and get a fix?	16:24
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lirakis	and why on earth does it insist on using gps when i have gps disabled in my system settings	16:25
SpeedEvil	lirakis: GPS disabled?	16:25
SpeedEvil	why?	16:25
lirakis	SpeedEvil, b/c i live in NYC and i can never get a gps fix	16:26
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lirakis	... or rather.. i can rarely	16:26
SpeedEvil	have you tried?	16:26
lirakis	ummm.. yeah	16:26
SpeedEvil	It will get a fix much more easily once it has once	16:26
lirakis	just now i have started ovi maps (well .. 1min30sec. ago)	16:26
tybollt	so you want to get a GPS fix in ovi maps - with the gps turned off? You have an external GPS then?	16:26
lirakis	and its still hasnt gotten a "my location"	16:27
lirakis	tybollt no .. i want ovi to use coordinates provided by coarse location	16:27
SpeedEvil	network positioning isn't that great	16:27
lirakis	SpeedEvil, dude thats not the point	16:27
lirakis	its a lot better than nothing	16:27
Anss\|	works for google maps	16:27
tybollt	yes it is pretty piss poor telling from my experimenting w/ googlers	16:27
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lirakis	and nothing is waht i get with gps	16:27
tybollt	anssi: define 'works' :)	16:28
lirakis	tybollt i have a g1 and it works fantastic in nyc	16:28
DocScrutinizer	lirakis: there's a flaw in GPS stored data handling that renders GPS quite useless without assistence over internet	16:28
Anss\|	it is faster to have	16:28
lirakis	i get pretty close to 1 block accuracy	16:28
lirakis	i want to get out of a subway... start up maps and have it read a coarse location in 5 seconds and show me where the heck i am	16:28
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DocScrutinizer	works here, with GPRS/3G	16:29
lirakis	DocScrutinizer what works?	16:29
DocScrutinizer	for the A-part in AGPS	16:29
lcuk	lirakis, personally i want location whilst still in subway ;)	16:29
Anss\|	lirakis, handy after drinking, day after ;)	16:29
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DocScrutinizer	lirakis: getting first fix in 10 seconds	16:29
lirakis	DocScrutinizer, assisted gps = coarse (cell location) ?	16:30
SpeedEvil	For me cell positioning is ~3km off usually	16:30
lcuk	noobmonk3y, healthcheck gets course gps fix in about 10nanoseconds doesnt it?	16:30
lirakis	ACWP ?	16:30
lirakis	SpeedEvil, .. well i live in manhattan where ... its accurate to a few hundred feet, and gps doesnt work in any part of midtown	16:31
DocScrutinizer	lirakis: Assistance is a couple of different measures called 'A', usually it means to get a coarse position by other means plus the ephem&alm data over internet rather than over sat	16:31
tybollt	lirakis: that's funny, why dun GPS work?	16:31
lcuk	big building fsck with locks	16:31
tybollt	lirakis: all the tall buildings?	16:31
Anss\|	cell accuracy depends of the shade areas, it is just triangular calculation.	16:31
lirakis	tybollt, lots of really tall buildings	16:31
zaheerm	a few hundred storey buildings means you can't even see the sky	16:31
tybollt	ja	16:31
lirakis	DocScrutinizer, i have 3 g and data	16:32
lirakis	currently ... 3.5 g	16:32
DocScrutinizer	lirakis: the coarse position needs an accuracy of ~ a few 100km, to give GPS an idea which sats are in vicinity	16:32
lirakis	starting maps now	16:32
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lirakis	DocScrutinizer, im saying i dont want to use any gps	16:32
DocScrutinizer	so why do you use it then?	16:33
lirakis	DocScrutinizer, blarhg!	16:33
SpeedEvil	lirakis: have you tried the gps? And made sure it doesn't in fact get a lock - outside?	16:33
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SpeedEvil	(with cell assistance turned on)	16:33
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lirakis	DocScrutinizer, i cant get gps signal ... yes .. i have tried.	16:33
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lirakis	DocScrutinizer, on my old POS blacberry 8700 i could go to maps and it would use cell triangualtion to show me where i am	16:34
DocScrutinizer	lirakis: I really don't get it what's your issue then? want GPS without GPS, or what?	16:34
lirakis	DocScrutinizer, do you consider cellular positioning gps?	16:34
DocScrutinizer	lirakis: there's NO SUCH THING like cell triangulation	16:34
lcuk	sure there is, they use it in CSI all the time	16:35
lirakis	DocScrutinizer, android phones, and my old blackberry (which did not even have gps) are able to give me my location	16:35
DocScrutinizer	lirakis: mompls	16:35
lirakis	DocScrutinizer triangulation was a silly description ... "device is located based on cellular base station to which device is registered"	16:35
lirakis	"Assisted Complementary Wireless Positioning:"	16:36
noobmonk3y	lcuk: yes appx	16:36
lirakis	i want to use that ... ONLY to get a general idea of were the F i am	16:36
lcuk	lirakis, install HealthCheck	16:36
noobmonk3y	the course one is within 2km ish	16:36
lcuk	just see how it does for getting rough position	16:36
DocScrutinizer	lirakis: I won't repeat myself. Take a pointer instead : http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html	16:36
noobmonk3y	tested it across the Uk and for me has always been within 500m	16:36
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DocScrutinizer	lirakis: you're probably talking about http://www.skyhookwireless.com/	16:37
lirakis	DocScrutinizer so what ? are you saying that is not a valid method of providing location?	16:37
lirakis	DocScrutinizer, NO I AM NOT	16:37
lirakis	DocScrutinizer, have you used a G1 ?	16:38
DocScrutinizer	no such crap here	16:38
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SpeedEvil	As I understand it the positioning the G1 gets is fed to it by the network	16:38
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fragment	lirakis: afaik there is a bug in the current version. you need to have a data connection open or it is nearly impossible to get a fix	16:38
SpeedEvil	As a service.	16:38
lirakis	DocScrutinizer, well "such crap" does a far better job at providing location. and it does it without any gps	16:39
lirakis	fragment, i have a data connection	16:39
DocScrutinizer	fragment: I mentione4d that before	16:39
fragment	oh ok	16:39
MohammadAG	when you buy an android, you sell your soul to google	16:39
SpeedEvil	So, without the cooperation of the network - you can't get that sort of fix.	16:39
lirakis	MohammadAG, i had a G1 before the n900 came out	16:39
lirakis	... now i have an n900	16:39
lirakis	i had an n810 before my g1	16:39
MohammadAG	ok...	16:39
lirakis	all im saying is OVI maps, and the n900 are so freakin stone age as far as maps and location goes its disturbing	16:40
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lirakis	not being able to start up a maps app and have an INSTANT fix ... is silly	16:40
DocScrutinizer	worksforme	16:40
MohammadAG	no device gets an instant fix	16:40
MohammadAG	without s	16:40
frals	lol	16:40
lirakis	instant meaning 2/3 seconds or less	16:40
DocScrutinizer	etx	16:40
MohammadAG	a data connection	16:40
ccooke	MohammadAG: it's entirely possible to buy an android phone and not sell your soul to google... my previous phone was an htc magic, and I'm not ruling out buying an android device in the next few months (quite possibly a tablet...)	16:40
MohammadAG	ccooke, they do everything w/o asking you	16:41
MohammadAG	sadly sony's pulling the same stunt on the ps3	16:41
andre__	lirakis, in that case you should probably also always have some satellites with you when you want to use the N900's GPS? which existing device can get a fix in 3secs?	16:41
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ccooke	MohammadAG: "Everything" in this case being...?	16:41
MohammadAG	updates	16:42
MohammadAG	location gathering	16:42
MohammadAG	etc...	16:42
lirakis	andre__ the g1	16:42
MohammadAG	read the privacy policy :)	16:42
lirakis	andre__ using cell bassed location	16:42
chem\|st	ccooke: what you are suffering from is called 'stockholm syndrome'	16:42
rlinfati	Hi, how i can create a custom emmc image ?	16:42
nid0	lirakis: dunno about you, but maps gives me a coarse position within about 3 seconds of loading	16:42
andre__	hmm. I should borrow the G1 from a friend again it seems then :)	16:42
ccooke	MohammadAG: ... er... all of those explicitly requited consent when I was using the phone.	16:42
lirakis	nid0, ill try rebooting this thing ... its not giving me !@#$^	16:42
DocScrutinizer	lirakis: please get your facts sorted before messing up the channel here	16:42
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ccooke	chem\|st: ... okay, now I have to laugh at you :-)	16:43
MohammadAG	ccooke, how did the droid fix itself?	16:43
MohammadAG	chrome looks different on my laptop each day/week/month	16:43
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lirakis	DocScrutinizer, i dont think you can discount properties of a device you have never used	16:43
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ccooke	MohammadAG: I have no idea what you mean by it fixing itself?	16:43
* zaheerm has a g1 also		16:43
DocScrutinizer	I CAN!	16:43
zaheerm	and n900 gets a fix quicker than g1	16:44
DocScrutinizer	you NEVER get a GPS fix in 2 sec	16:44
chem\|st	ccooke: at me? I am not trolling around here stating facts that are proof of missing intelligence	16:44
MohammadAG	ccooke, idk, read about it on engadget	16:44
lirakis	DocScrutinizer holy crap dude	16:44
lirakis	i dont want to use gps	16:44
lirakis	how many times do i have to say that	16:44
achipa	DocScrutinizer: technically, that is not what he requested	16:44
DocScrutinizer	so please STFU	16:44
* MohammadAG gets a lock in 10-15 seconds, with AGPS		16:44
Anss\|	cell based location was some years ago forbidden due terrorist threat afaik	16:44
MohammadAG	possibly 30	16:44
MohammadAG	the other 15 are part of maps loading	16:44
achipa	there could be tricks to improve lock speeds	16:45
ccooke	chem\|st: ... so... stating that you don't "sell your soul to google" just because you buy an android phone is... trolling, and proof of missing intelligence?	16:45
tybollt	the problem is when you're abroad	16:45
chem\|st	ccooke: but if I have to choose who to sell my soul to and would be forced to pick government or google I would pick google	16:45
tybollt	then using AGPS is too expensive	16:45
achipa	of course, all of them cheating, but still	16:45
lirakis	rebooting phone to see how it works after taht	16:45
ccooke	chem\|st: now, if I were to want to put an entirely unjustified label onto you, I'd be very happy to label you a victim of Amiga Persecution Syndrome :-)	16:45
chem\|st	ccooke: I meant laugh at someone else who does	16:45
tybollt	chem\|st: there are rules as to what govt can do w/ your soul. There are no rules for what googles can do w/ it.	16:46
Corsac	ha there, I remember my intent bug report. It's annoying that you can't say “don't try to connect any data connection”	16:46
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chem\|st	tybollt: true but the government bends the rules... with google I at least know what will run over me	16:47
lirakis	so i rebooted ... started ovi (gps is disabled) and it says downloading data/looking for gps	16:47
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chem\|st	ccooke: never had an amiga...	16:47
ShadowJK	ovi maps isn't useful for obtaining gps fix, especially not without agps	16:47
frals	(not read all backlog, but someone is expecting a gps fix without using gps?)	16:47
ccooke	There are laws about what Google can do, too. For a start, the UK and Europe have strong data protection laws.	16:47
lirakis	i get no little red dot that shows me "my location"	16:47
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tybollt	chem\|st: that google will run you over, break, turn, run you over again, ad inifinitum	16:48
chem\|st	frals: I think so... I will try to once I figure out how it works...	16:48
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frals	interesting concept to say the least	16:49
lirakis	tybollt, yeah .. i ditched the g1 when they stopped commiting kernel chanegs	16:49
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: also - some GPSs can indeed lock in 2s. Not cold - but warm.	16:49
chem\|st	tybollt: yes, with the gov I expect the leave me running with a tracking device and a hidden cam in my eye	16:49
tybollt	lirakis: why did they?	16:49
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: we're talking bout TTFF though	16:49
ccooke	chem\|st: An amusing label attached to a bunch of Amiga fans (but could also have been used on some of the OS/2 diehards, who believed that it must have been a conspiracy that killed off their beloved platform	16:49
chem\|st	ccooke: nice ;)	16:50
DocScrutinizer	and 10..15s for TTFF is roundabout as good as it gets	16:50
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achipa	SpeedEvil: it's all the question of how much do you want to cheat with GPS data. Like turning it on once in a while to have your almanach up to date or avoiding the fix to get cold	16:50
ccooke	chem\|st: and not, say (in the case of Amiga), Commodore being utterly shite at marketing and the prevalence of pirate games :-)	16:50
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lirakis	tybollt, i think they just maintain their own repository instead of keeping a branch on the kernel tree	16:50
Anss\|	ccooke, i think it was just *piracy that killed beloved amiga :)	16:51
ccooke	Anss\|: certainly it was the murder weapon ;-)	16:51
chem\|st	ccooke: I love those iFans, keep me smiling :)	16:51
* ShadowJK should go outside and see how fast he gets a fix with N900 and no network connectivity		16:51
hrw	Anss\|: there was few more reasons	16:51
DocScrutinizer	achipa: yes, or use A	16:51
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lirakis	any how .. the n900 is definitely not as polished, and i question nokia with the meego thing... im willing to make sacrifices to keep "open" but... you know.. some stuff bugs me... thats all	16:52
ccooke	Anss\|: but Commodore's complete... lack of an ability to deal with the market was a big part of it, really.	16:52
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chem\|st	ShadowJK: should I try right now? in office? my last fix was about 60km away from here...	16:52
achipa	also, a trick would be to presume last fix, or, even simpler, to start GPS before Ovi maps starts loading	16:52
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Anss\|	...and they did not put fpu/mmu to a1200	16:53
achipa	usually I get a fix when I want to geotag in less time than it takes Ovi maps to start up	16:53
chem\|st	ShadowJK: maps starting	16:53
ShadowJK	The description of the "Network Positioning" makes it sound like it needs to either have the location in cache, or be able to talk to a server to ask "where abouts is CellID 0xAECD?"	16:53
ShadowJK	I wouldn't try it indoors even with agps ;P	16:53
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ccooke	To be more serious: In every case of private information passing from me to google on the Android phone, there was a clear statement of the terms and conditions that I had to accept for the service. Some of those I accepted, some I didn't, but the choice was always there.	16:54
DocScrutinizer	btw alm / ephem (one of both) not needed with really decent GPS chips with a _huge_ number of corellators to scan all possible sats on all possible trajectories same time concurrently. This is what'll give you TTFF of 15s without A	16:54
ccooke	I tend not to mind giving away private information in exchange for something, as long as what I receive is valuable. Possibly this is because I know I have a legal recourse, should I decide to withdraw my consent.	16:54
chem\|st	ShadowJK: it downloads the current cache from a stationary gps near by	16:54
DocScrutinizer	as each sat sends it's own orbit data every few seconds	16:55
ShadowJK	wtf @ "stationary gps"	16:55
chem\|st	ShadowJK: I had it working without networkconnection last time I checked, right from my desk	16:55
ShadowJK	I guess you were lucky :P	16:55
lcuk	chem\|st, do you commute to ISS or just resident there?	16:55
ShadowJK	Or the N900 GPS is really really good getting unassisted fix inside buildings...	16:56
DocScrutinizer	so: scan 512000 possible 'channels' concurrently, download actual position and vector off of 3 of them -> fix in 15sec	16:56
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chem\|st	lcuk: still eating my liquid pancakes....	16:56
ccooke	ShadowJK: it's not bad, you know. Better than most phone gps units I've used, I have to say	16:56
hrw	cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 is fremantle compiler?	16:56
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X-Fade	hrw: yes	16:57
ccooke	I remember it was getting the right building almost all the time at wessergasfabrik, which my HTC magic couldn't do at all	16:57
DocScrutinizer	then download athmospheric correction data during next 5 minutes and get a accurate fix after 5 min	16:58
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DocScrutinizer	and I'm sure there are real cracks for GPS here in this chan, relative noob speaking here	16:59
Corsac	the test location gui is really nice to investigate GPS issues	16:59
tybollt	doc: cracks for GPS?	16:59
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DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: please check http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API -- the last good fix is cached in liblocation	17:01
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smhar	I tested an N900 in a phone shop today and noticed that many things -in the software- are very basic for a smart phone, even and entry level one. for instance there are only 2 profiles, silent and general?! did I miss something?	17:01
hrw	~curse sbox	17:01
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, sbox !	17:01
MiXu-	smhar: No you didn't. There are only two.	17:02
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nid0	the main thing you missed is that the n900 is a tablet with really basic phone functionality	17:02
DocScrutinizer	smhar: yes, you missed it's not a smartphone. And you missed e.g. tweakr adding profiles	17:02
nid0	the second thing you missed is the tweakr application that lets you add more profiles	17:02
hrw	DocScrutinizer: or profilesx	17:02
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: my last fix is 9 days about 60km from here...	17:02
chem\|st	so it might take up to 12 min	17:02
MiXu-	I hate to say it, but tweakr profile adding sucks monkey balls.	17:03
ccooke	nid0: I disagree, actually. It's the nicest touchscreen phone I've used - and yes, that includes several of the obvious ones.	17:03
hrw	smhar: if you want a phone - avoid n900	17:03
MiXu-	Unless it's changed lately.	17:03
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nid0	purely as a phone, i'd choose pretty much any phone over an n900	17:03
chem\|st	we will see... the maps app stopped looking again so I stopped and turned the location testing stuff on with gps only	17:03
hrw	smhar: it you want expensive toy with glued phone then consider n900	17:03
chem\|st	fix	17:03
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DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: see ? :-)	17:04
chem\|st	see what?	17:04
MiXu-	I can live with two profiles.	17:04
ShadowJK	that was fast for just gps	17:04
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chem\|st	that was now about 8-9 minutes and that is fair enough	17:05
DocScrutinizer	Agps I suppose	17:05
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chem\|st	ShadowJK: well fast it might take up to 12 minutes but not longer	17:05
X-Fade	hrw: Did you activate your newly created target?	17:05
ShadowJK	You know the menus for the "profiles" stuff on my previous "smart phones" have been so confusing I've essentially only used "silent" and "not silent" before anyway :/	17:05
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hrw	X-Fade: I edited existing not created new one	17:05
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hrw	X-Fade: and after edit I landed in it	17:06
chem\|st	I have now 7 satelites at view and 4-5 in use	17:06
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MohammadAG	ShadowJK, LOL same here	17:06
ccooke	ShadowJK: I've found the bother of switching profile so annoying I only used the switch to silent, too	17:06
hrw	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/pkg/my-extras/mdbus2-2.0.0] > which dpkg	17:06
hrw	/scratchbox/devkits/debian-squeeze/bin/dpkg	17:06
MiXu-	I'd like to have an easy way to adjust the loudness of ringtones. That's all I'd need.	17:06
hrw	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/pkg/my-extras/mdbus2-2.0.0] > dpkg --version	17:06
hrw	Debian `dpkg' package management program version 1.15.5.2 (i386).	17:06
chem\|st	ShadowJK: MohammadAG I second that	17:06
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chem\|st	my sony had a hotbutton to switch silent and current...	17:07
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X-Fade	hrw: and no gcc?	17:07
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MohammadAG	i only used general silent and vibra	17:07
smhar	hrw, ouch	17:07
hrw	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/pkg/my-extras/mdbus2-2.0.0] > gcc --version	17:07
hrw	sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc (GCC) 4.2.1	17:07
MohammadAG	the N900 has a tickbox for vibra so...	17:07
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MiXu-	The thing about Tweakr profiles that bothered me was that it essentially adds complexity to managing profiles.	17:07
DocScrutinizer	TTFF after reflashing (virgin fix): ~30sec indoors	17:08
ccooke	I mean, what are the serious features missing on the n900? MMS is controversial, but a goodly portion of people have said they don't need it. Voice dialing is... situational dependant, at best. Anything else?	17:08
hrw	smhar: if you want a nokia phone - grab anything with S40	17:08
MiXu-	instead of two places to change profiles, there are three after installing tweakr	17:08
DocScrutinizer	~50m jumpy	17:08
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chem\|st	ccooke: mms is available	17:08
ag0ny	ccooke: RSap...definately!	17:08
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hrw	ccooke: video call, voice dial, one hand portrait	17:08
ccooke	(I mean, I've been assuming there must be missing features, but never been quite sure what they meant)	17:08
ccooke	chem\|st: I mentioned that :-)	17:08
MiXu-	ccooke: SyncML is missing natively, but there's an app for it.	17:08
hrw	ccooke: working calendar etc	17:08
chem\|st	voice dialing isnt missing for me, no phone did like I wanted it to do so screw voice dialing	17:09
ccooke	video call I'll give you.	17:09
nid0	ccooke, not really. more than "holy shit it doesnt have a **" its more "holy shit, the ** on this thing is well basic"	17:09
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ccooke	What's wrong with the calendar?	17:09
chem\|st	missing stuff is calDAV	17:09
nid0	and that applies to pretty much everything phone related	17:09
smhar	hrw, well... I do not think phone requirements are big to satisfy	17:09
nid0	particularly the shitty calendar	17:09
MiXu-	I've had no problems with the calendar	17:09
chem\|st	proper syncing of more than one calendar	17:09
Anss\|	battery that don't dry out without using	17:09
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ccooke	I've used the calendar a lot... not had any trouble.	17:10
nid0	yeah, it works, it's just well basic	17:10
MiXu-	Anss\|: Lol. I'd like to see the phone that doesn't have that problem ;)	17:10
DocScrutinizer	now ~<10m to the point	17:10
hrw	ccooke: try to import more advanced calendar entries...	17:10
MiXu-	Or I have. It has a wire that goes to a wall ;)	17:10
hrw	bug 6933	17:10
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6933 Alarm times are shown wrong	17:10
chem\|st	missing PGP/GPG mime for modest	17:10
nid0	the only real biggie for me is the lack of a proper office suite	17:10
nid0	and the shite email client	17:10
hrw	missing LOT of features for modest you mean?	17:10
ccooke	hrw: hmm. Possibly my workplace doesn't use anything so advanced; it's imported all my meetings with no trouble	17:11
chem\|st	nid0: true	17:11
MiXu-	nid0: Have you tried the documents to go or whatnot?	17:11
DocScrutinizer	that's been with internet (over wifi) and assistance enabled	17:11
hrw	calendar is joke, mail is joke	17:11
nid0	yeah, docs to go is just a viewer though, and only a free trial.	17:11
hrw	ccooke: check bug 6933 which I told before	17:11
chem\|st	at least a free doc-viewer would help	17:11
ZogG	http://img9.yfrog.com/img9/2096/67622729.png watch the speed and size =)	17:11
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nid0	losing my e90's office suite is kinda annoying for me	17:12
ccooke	hrw: out of interest... what do you like about Maemo?	17:12
MohammadAG	20s lock	17:12
chem\|st	hrw: note joke but not what it could be, biggest fault is to put media cal and mail into non-free	17:12
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: let's bash all NYC residents claiming GPS doesn't work ;-)	17:13
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hrw	chem\|st: modest is free	17:13
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, hmm, just disabled all gps, and cold rebooted (not a full reboot), it gets a lock in 13s	17:14
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hrw	ccooke: it is one step closer to my dream phone then my previous one	17:14
MohammadAG	give or take a second	17:14
ccooke	hrw: grin Good reason	17:14
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: the location data cache won't get void by booting	17:15
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, how do I void them :)	17:15
MohammadAG	other than reflashing, plehehehease...	17:15
smhar	hrw, what else -phone wise- is lacking in N900?	17:15
hrw	ccooke: I can hack some code for it, it has quite good IM integration (if you avoid twitter and facebook plugins), browser suxx less then s60 one but needs more work to replace opera mini	17:15
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: ask SpeedEvil - he knows a tool to delete the file/whatever	17:15
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MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, ?	17:15
MiXu-	Prioritization for phone calls isn't as good as on Symbian.	17:15
hrw	smhar: phone wise as 'phone functionality' or as 'n900 to be used for phone'?	17:16
ccooke	hrw: ugh, I can't stand opera mini. But to each their own :-)	17:16
* frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout		17:16
MiXu-	It can take a long time for call to start if there's heavy loa´d	17:16
chem\|st	smhar: nothing, I can call I can fwd I can reject send texts and mms...	17:16
hrw	ccooke: operamini has awesoe reflow of text	17:16
Disconnect	MiXu-: fwiw its still better than g1 when it was equally young. its only recently (1.6) that it could reliably receive calls while doing other things (eg browser or maps)	17:16
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ccooke	hrw: possibly, but every time I've used it I've hated it. Something in the interface just doesn't click.	17:17
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hrw	sure	17:17
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smhar	hrw, n900 to be used for phone	17:17
ccooke	smhar: see, the thing is... the n900 is a massive improvement as a phone over my Android HTC Magic.	17:17
* Disconnect wants a browser that works in portrait. srsly. no weird offscreen grey horiz scroll 'wobble' (when there's no horiz-scroll content, LOCK TO VERTICAL..) and no missing close buttons, no need to say "reflow" on every single window, etc...		17:17
Disconnect	ccooke: what ver was the magic running? see above re phone issues in android :)	17:18
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ccooke	Disconnect: 1.5 IIRC	17:18
Disconnect	yah.	17:18
ccooke	hmm. Maybe not. It was cupcake. goes to check which version number that was	17:19
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Disconnect	ancient	17:19
nid0	cupcake is 1.5	17:19
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hrw	smhar: missing (compared to 1€ phones): video calls, voice dialing (especially during car driving), conf calls (or I did not found how to make such in maemo5)	17:19
smhar	ccooke, never tried HTC Magic and did not like the Android	17:19
ccooke	Disconnect: well, yes. I haven't used it since day 1 of the last Maemo summit :-)	17:20
hrw	smhar: thats from pure phone stuff	17:20
Disconnect	ccooke: :)	17:20
ccooke	smhar: I liked the system quite a bit, actually.	17:20
ccooke	but the big problems with it: The dialing pad was slow to react and... just a little unpleasant to use.	17:20
nid0	i've never even noticed the lack of voice dialling, <3 handsfree in my car	17:20
ccooke	when a phone call was active, bringing up the number pad required effort	17:20
Disconnect	ccooke: you were running stock upstream image?	17:21
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ccooke	and the phone kept locking during the call, so sometimes I'd have to unlock to get to the pad, which left my finger over a button, so I ended up pressing a button...	17:21
ccooke	Disconnect: yes.	17:21
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DocScrutinizer	hrw: (conf) that's probably because conf calls over gsm are rarely found feature with european carriers	17:21
nid0	they are?	17:22
smhar	ccooke, I have a programmer friend that claimed that to do a simple 'Hello World" in Android he needed pages and pages of Reading AND Coding	17:22
Disconnect	yah. it got a lot better with 1.6, although realistically it wasn't as convenient as n900 (or iphone or..) until 2.0, and most of that is cuz 2.0 hw comes with proximity sensors	17:22
ccooke	on the n900... the dialing pad is instant. Getting access to the number pad or toggling speaker phone - two of the biggest functions I use when calling - are nice big buttons that react instantly.	17:22
nid0	multiway calling in the uk hasnt been anything special for years	17:22
Disconnect	smhar: then he lied, the tutorial for hello world is something like 1.5 pages :)	17:22
hrw	awaiting calls suxx on n900	17:22
Disconnect	smhar: http://d.android.com/guide/tutorials/hello-world.html	17:22
ccooke	the interface of the n900 when making a phone call is beautifully streamlined. It does the job and it makes all the important functions easy to access.	17:23
ccooke	That's good design.	17:23
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Disconnect	smhar: the issue is when you get into xml layouts. you have to spend a lot of time thinking and pondering, its a real pita. it works (kinda) and scales between devices (kinda) but..	17:23
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ccooke	hrw: ... how so? It's really rather good.	17:23
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ccooke	I'd say Maemo would be better if it had a persistent message notification like Android has, sure	17:24
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ccooke	but other than that...	17:24
nid0	a notification all the time when there's messages you havent seen?	17:24
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frals	the task switcher being lit up and the notification led isnt clear enough?	17:25
nid0	apparently not	17:25
nid0	to me that works perfectly	17:25
nid0	but "no message notification on n900" seems a common complaint	17:25
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nid0	never really been sure why	17:25
DocScrutinizer	idiots to be found everywhere	17:26
ccooke	frals: I'd love an icon or two to tell you what sort of things were waiting, how many...	17:26
Disconnect	i really don't understand what maemo's ui team was thinking. (esp browser) landscape - waste tons and tons of space by having a top bar, but don't do anything useful with it. (bonus, when you get a notification in that tiny tiny square you prolly can't find it by clicking it..) portrait, lose the bar and make you rotate back to switch tasks, close windows, etc..	17:26
ccooke	it could certainly be done easily enough.	17:27
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smhar	hrw, ok.. are the limitation in N900 phone capabilities software related or hardware deficiencies?	17:27
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nid0	software	17:27
valdyn	smhar: thats a silly question	17:27
DocScrutinizer	Disconnect: nobody needs portrait mode, and it's absolutely no official feature for microb	17:27
Disconnect	nid0: a basic device feature (long before android) is "tell me what I missed/what has happened. let me manage them in random order, and don't lose them until i say so" .. n900 fails that badly..	17:28
ccooke	Disconnect: how so? They appear nicely in the task list	17:28
Disconnect	DocScrutinizer: my sarcasm detector is trembling. or are you going to seriously try to tell me that google reader (and other mobile webpages) are better in landscape..?	17:28
smhar	valdyn, well maybe, I am not really sure, but I know that the silliest question is the one not asked :-)	17:28
valdyn	Disconnect: the top bar can be switched off, so why is that a problem?	17:28
DocScrutinizer	google reader - what's that?	17:28
Disconnect	valdyn: because now you can't get out of it without turning it back on.	17:29
valdyn	Disconnect: I can	17:29
nid0	yes you can	17:29
nid0	but thats beside the point I guess	17:29
valdyn	Disconnect: ctrl-backspace	17:29
Disconnect	ccooke: if you get 2 emails (esp in 2 accounts), the task list says "@ email from {foo bar}" and clicking it (task list -and- notifications in one?? sigh) takes you to a random account.	17:29
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ZogG	DocScrutinizer it is, cause it's inside it. and would be official with pr1.2	17:29
* chem\|st puts a ObamAEd flag on his hat		17:30
ccooke	Disconnect: ah, that's definitely buggy behaviour	17:30
smhar	valdyn, I meant if there are software related... no big deal here.. 'enhancement' may appear in the next release, but if there is something in the hardware no able to handle that.. then that is it	17:30
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Disconnect	"What is happening now", "What did I miss" and/or "what is pending" are different tasks. i have a blinking light right now, lets see what it says... (neat, it failed to autolock) ok "@ 18 30 mins ago Tiger Auto Auditor" .. click it.. it shows my list of accounts.	17:31
Disconnect	no indication as to which has new messages, just account and sync time.	17:31
valdyn	smhar: if the n900 had some operating system like amiga os then it would be orders of magnitudes faster in some areas	17:31
valdyn	smhar: but such an os is insanely hard to manage with	17:31
smhar	valdyn, something similar to the usb host thing... as I read once that it is disabled by Nokia at the hardware level.. not sure about this info though	17:31
frals	Disconnect: accounts with new messages are highlighted arent they?	17:31
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Disconnect	frals: both are highlighted. how do i find the message it just showed me..?	17:32
DocScrutinizer	smhar: almost (aor probably) all of them are sw	17:32
DocScrutinizer	smhar: the modem/phone hw seems kinda ok	17:32
smhar	valdyn, well maybe after all there is hope in meego then :-)	17:33
chem\|st	smhar: the usb-host thing seems to be another issue	17:33
DocScrutinizer	smhar: It even knows how to transfer data during calls. Few modems know how to do that	17:33
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frals	dunno, ive never had a problem knowing which account got the email judging by the subject so couldnt tell you	17:33
Disconnect	DocScrutinizer: every tethered gsm phone (w/ 3g) i've ever had can do that :)	17:33
frals	but if both are highlighted you got new messages in both so id assume youd be interested in both and just check	17:33
DocScrutinizer	Disconnect: I'm referring to 2G though	17:34
DocScrutinizer	for 3G it's a mandatory feature iirc	17:34
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Disconnect	DocScrutinizer: i was under the impression that you -can't- transfer data during a voice call on 2g. no matter how fancy it is.	17:34
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DocScrutinizer	Disconnect: nope, incorrect. There's a extension to handle that	17:34
DocScrutinizer	and N900 has that extension	17:35
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cehteh	but carriers dont seem to like it	17:35
Disconnect	DocScrutinizer: yah does it actually work with real carriers?	17:36
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DocScrutinizer	I'd guess carriers don't even realize when it's happening	17:36
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Disconnect	hmm. got a link to the extension? so far everything i've seen on gsm requires -lots- of carrier support. esp channel allocation.	17:36
DocScrutinizer	as it's mainly a limitation of the modem hw not being able to switch rapidly between channels	17:37
DocScrutinizer	Disconnect: sorry I'm talking out of my ass, never looked into the details	17:37
Disconnect	yah thats what i suspected ;)	17:38
DocScrutinizer	I just got a basic idea about how GSM/GPRS works	17:39
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: 2G extensions made it possible and that is a feature both need the client and the carrier	17:40
MiXu-	How do I get rid of the MMS APN that fMMS created? :P	17:40
Disconnect	most modems (well, most phones anyway) will drop the data connection as soon as the transfer stops (eg page loads) and don't use keepalives, so they can receive calls/sms/etc between pages. saves some user annoyance ("whenever i open safari my phone stops receiving calls")	17:40
MiXu-	I mean is there a UI way to do it :)	17:40
DocScrutinizer	and my guess is GPRS is allocating a certain number of timeslices/'channels', and voice is using a separate additional one	17:40
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Disconnect	DocScrutinizer: er, channels and timeslices are different. there is an extension that basically gives half-rate voice and half-rate data, but srsly - half-rate edge data is down in the rfc1149 range...	17:42
hrw	X-Fade: any ideas?	17:42
DocScrutinizer	Disconnect: I know the diff tween channels and timeslices	17:43
frals	MiXu-: no, gconftool would be your friend here	17:43
frals	there are instructions somewhere in the fmms thread	17:43
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valdyn	MiXu-: latest fmmms just hides that apn	17:46
Disconnect	DocScrutinizer: actually, if this is what you meant by the gsm extension, you're half right. there is an extension (and at least one carrier actually uses it) to piggyback notification flags on the data channel. can't do both, but you can say "hey! stop data for a sec, got something important" - http://mobilesociety.typepad.com/mobile_life/2007/03/deep_inside_the.html	17:47
DocScrutinizer	• • Dual Transfer Mode (DTM) support for simultaneous voice and packet data connection in GSM/EDGE	17:47
DocScrutinizer	networks. Simple class A, multi slot class 32, max speed DL/UL: 296/177.6 kbits/s	17:47
DocScrutinizer	• GPRS class A, multi slot class 32 (Max Sum 6), max speed DL/UL= 107/64.2 kbits/s	17:47
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Disconnect	anything that says "class a" is using 2 different hardware radios. srsly. you don't want that, esp in a mobile device..	17:48
DocScrutinizer	(from RX51-L3/4 service manual)	17:48
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DocScrutinizer	aha	17:48
DocScrutinizer	nevertheless we got it	17:48
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DocScrutinizer	that's RX51 aka N900 specs, as of Nokia official service manual	17:49
DocScrutinizer	page 18 of 202	17:50
ZogG	but we lost faith in nokia, i'm gonna write new topic about it =))))))	17:50
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DocScrutinizer	so now tell me I'm wrong	17:50
crashanddie_	'night all	17:51
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DocScrutinizer	n8 crashy	17:51
chem\|st	n8 crashanddie	17:51
crashanddie_	neight?	17:51
crashanddie_	:P	17:51
crashanddie_	or is that with the aussie accent?	17:52
DocScrutinizer	:-)	17:52
chem\|st	with the ozzy accent	17:52
DocScrutinizer	noth bavarian aussie accent ;-)	17:52
DocScrutinizer	north even	17:52
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Disconnect	i -really- doubt the n900 has 2 radios. "simple class a" may be code for "half-rate voice and half-rate data" (see above)	17:53
chem\|st	I'd say naight like west yorkshire accent	17:53
Disconnect	(sorry, got eaten by life briefly)	17:53
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chem\|st	Disconnect: I guess it got 4 at least	17:54
Disconnect	chem\|st: 4 gsm radios? srsly?	17:54
* Disconnect would guess that thats kinda a dumbass assumption ;)		17:54
DocScrutinizer	Disconnect: or it's a timesharing scheme as suggested by me before	17:54
chem\|st	2gsm 1wifi 1fm	17:54
Disconnect	chem\|st: ok. explain to me what its gonna do with 2 gsm radios. (3g is a superset of edge/etc. so thats one radio. where's the other?)	17:55
* DocScrutinizer wonders what 14WAAKH22 might mean in Finland		17:56
Khertan	Ovi Store will be accepting applications created with the Nokia Qt SDK in the near future. Stay tuned for more announcements and instructions on submitting. <<<< interesting ...	17:57
Terje_	DocScrutinizer, same as everywhere in world?	17:57
Disconnect	DocScrutinizer: yah. dtm - thats the 'half-rate' thing i was talking about (i got thrown by the "simple a" description)	17:57
chem\|st	thought it got two antenas on two radios, but I could be wrong as always	17:57
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Disconnect	chem\|st: ok. why?	17:58
chem\|st	thats what I remember from service manual... but it could be another device	17:59
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DocScrutinizer	GSM/UMTS has _one_ antenna	17:59
DocScrutinizer	then there's BT/WiFi, GPS, FM-TX, (fm-rx, well kinda)...	18:00
DocScrutinizer	antennae	18:00
Disconnect	cell antenna, gps antenna, not seeing anything for the wifi or fm but still looking	18:00
X-Fade	hrw: I have this in my sbdmock setup: config_opts['cputransparency-method'] = 'qemu-arm-sb'	18:00
DocScrutinizer	so you got 4 internal plus one plugin antennae	18:01
DocScrutinizer	plugin one aka headset	18:01
hrw	X-Fade: what is sbdmock?	18:02
DocScrutinizer	schematics help a lot ;-P	18:02
X-Fade	hrw: I'll not complicate matters for you by explaining that ;)	18:02
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hrw	X-Fade: I think that I will just gain 15GB by removing maemosdk as it does not work now D:	18:05
X-Fade	hrw: Did you have a working scratchbox setup?	18:05
X-Fade	Then it should really be a one line change and you are done.	18:06
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DocScrutinizer	Disconnect: (3G superset of EDGE) really?	18:09
hrw	X-Fade: when I run 'scratchbox' I am inside of it	18:09
hrw	X-Fade: so which change?	18:10
X-Fade	sb-menu	18:10
DocScrutinizer	Disconnect: aiui GSM==TDMA, 3G==WCDMA	18:10
hrw	X-Fade: and?	18:10
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Disconnect	DocScrutinizer: since you used wikipedia earlier ;) "While the GSM EDGE standard also fulfils the IMT-2000 specification, EDGE phones are typically not branded 3G"	18:11
X-Fade	change the target config, replace debian-etch (or lenny) by debian-squeeze.	18:11
X-Fade	Done.	18:11
hrw	X-Fade: did that 3 times	18:11
X-Fade	Did you actually install it before that?	18:11
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X-Fade	Outside scratchbox?	18:11
DocScrutinizer	Disconnect: err, uhuh	18:12
hrw	X-Fade: I first installed outside sbox	18:12
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* noobmonk3y omg's		18:12
X-Fade	hrw: The errors you see have nothing to do with the thing you changed.	18:12
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hrw	X-Fade: and dpkg in fremantle-armel sbox is from squeeze	18:12
* noobmonk3y just saw someone downloading PR1.2!		18:12
* noobmonk3y realises it is not April 1st - http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/25850&vid=185872		18:12
X-Fade	noobmonk3y: I do that all the time ;)	18:12
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noobmonk3y	:D	18:13
Disconnect	DocScrutinizer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_Data_Rates_for_GSM_Evolution#cite_note-ref1-0 ..yep. even says it right on the cover page.	18:13
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Disconnect	IMT-2000: (The ITU definition of 3G Mobile) - IMT-DS (W-CDMA-FDD) - IMT-MC (cdma2000) - IMT-SC (EDGE) - IMT-TC (TD-SCDMA) - (W-CDMA-TDD) - IMT-FT (DECT)	18:13
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MohammadAG_	noobmonk3y, PR1.4 too :o	18:14
* noobmonk3y grins yay!		18:14
DocScrutinizer	and how's that related to the question if we need a separate radia for 3G?	18:14
DocScrutinizer	radio	18:14
* noobmonk3y starts the rumour "You need a separate radiator to use the N900"		18:15
DocScrutinizer	I'm using 3G as a synonym for UMTS here. I don't care about ITU defs	18:15
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: ok we got a wcdma and a gsm receiver	18:16
Disconnect	DocScrutinizer: every radio module we looked at (few years back unfortunately) that did umts/3g had edge integrated.	18:16
SpeedEvil	noobmonk3y: I installed this, and now my n900 won't boot	18:17
DocScrutinizer	fine. Still EDGE is TDMA	18:17
chem\|st	its one chip I guess and one antena	18:17
noobmonk3y	SpeedEvil: - you need to wait for PR2.0 :( oh well	18:18
hrw	X-Fade: magic then	18:19
ZogG	Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to talk.maemo.org	18:20
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ZogG	forum is down?	18:21
nid0	yes	18:21
ZogG	who did it?	18:21
Khertan	as usual :)	18:21
ZogG	you?	18:21
ZogG	bad bad boy	18:21
nid0	whatever gremlins take it down every day, I guess	18:21
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: I told it's one antenna	18:21
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: it's roundabout 5 chips though	18:22
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ZogG	when you'll get part for phones	18:22
ZogG	like for laptops or desctops?	18:22
achipa	nid0: not gremlins, daemons :)	18:23
achipa	(in all senses of the word)	18:23
ZogG	you come to store and say : hey can i get this cpu for my phone? does my bla-bla-blah motherboard supoorts it?	18:23
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nid0	not anytime soon	18:24
ZogG	i don't think so	18:24
ZogG	not like i described but anyway	18:24
ZogG	it would be like laptops soon	18:24
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ZogG	when you actually can change parts and have different configurations	18:25
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ZogG	and than you get different oses as well =)	18:25
chem\|st	its an ASIC with both GSM&WCDMA in it like BTHFM-ASIC has BT and FM	18:25
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DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: yes.	18:26
chem\|st	I would call those two asics 4 radios with 3 antenas	18:26
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: well, I don't see the point in arguing about that	18:27
chem\|st	so we got 5 radios plus gps-rx and 4 +headset antenas	18:27
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: call it whatever you want. For details refer to the schematics and datasheets	18:27
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Milo-	hum, isn't there a way of changing the default view for the calendar?	18:27
Milo-	I don't like the agenda format	18:28
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chem\|st	nah it was just the 'are you serious that we have 2 gsm' well we got one gsm and one wcdma...	18:28
Milo-	I would like to see a weekly or monthly calendar by default when I open the calendar.	18:28
MohammadAG_	wtf	18:28
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MohammadAG_	the N8 has OTG	18:28
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zaheerm	says it has	18:28
Milo-	otg?	18:29
MohammadAG_	USB On The Go	18:29
zaheerm	also it says there is microusb and nokia 2mm charging ports	18:29
DocScrutinizer	the question if a TDMA is implemented in an asic as a separate function block, or they just switch the WCDMA blocks to a different operation mode, that's quite uninetresting	18:29
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DocScrutinizer	anyway WCDMA isn't exactly a technical superset of TDMA	18:30
chem\|st	why is it a symbian again	18:30
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hrw	[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > qemu	18:32
hrw	/scratchbox/tools/bin/qemu: No qemu binary found.	18:32
hrw	Have you installed & selected the CPU transparency devkit?	18:32
hrw	that looks really strange	18:33
X-Fade	hrw: Did you install it in the host?	18:33
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chem\|st	where do they put all that stuff?	18:34
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X-Fade	hrw: All packages are here: http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/stable/main/binary-i386/	18:34
hrw	X-Fade: I found issue - when I selected squeeze devkit I did not selected qemu one too	18:34
X-Fade	hrw: ok, good.	18:34
hrw	~curse sbox anyway	18:35
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, sbox anyway !	18:35
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DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: for a specification POV it's probably most approriate to consider the device a blackbox and just see how many independant RF transmissions aka protocols it can send concurrently	18:37
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: true	18:37
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Khertan	bye	18:39
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hrw	newer version uploaded to builder	18:41
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slonopotamus	so	18:42
Stskeeps	wb javispedro	18:42
javispedro	hey	18:42
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: everything beyond is just a question of the particular hw implementation and the answer largely depends on the question you want to get answered. See e.g WiFi/BT, with coexistence - they share one freq and often one antenna, and it doesn't matter for anything outside the case if BT and WiFi share one transmitter ore are mixed together from two chips on one antenna or even use two antennae	18:43
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Stskeeps	javispedro: does openvg require EGL?	18:44
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javispedro	Stskeeps: theoretically, no. But on the PVR, yes...	18:45
javispedro	(an implementor could make their own EGL-like API -- see Apple)	18:45
slonopotamus	X-Fade: any plans to fix autocleaner? :)	18:45
X-Fade	slonopotamus: Should be fixed.	18:45
X-Fade	slonopotamus: Can you upload a newer version?	18:45
Stskeeps	javispedro: but it's basically just an API for rendering to a buffer i guess?	18:45
slonopotamus	it strikes again :) https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9902#c4	18:46
povbot	Bug 9902: Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel	18:46
X-Fade	slonopotamus: Current one is a bit messed up and I don't have time to actually go and remove some things from the db.	18:46
javispedro	Stskeeps: it's basically an API for "setting platform specific stuff up". Getting surfaces to render into, associate those into display devices or windows, ...	18:46
Stskeeps	er, openvg i mean	18:46
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X-Fade	slonopotamus: If you just increase the version number, it should be fine?	18:48
Stskeeps	egl i know what does :P	18:48
javispedro	Stskeeps: yes	18:48
Stskeeps	javispedro: just wondering if there' potential in trying to get qt working on top of the drivers so there's -some- worth :P	18:48
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DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: how would you characterize MIMO? one radio with multiple antennae? or with one multi-element active antenna? or multiple one-antenna radios in one device?	18:49
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DocScrutinizer	or maybe just say it's MIMO ;-D	18:50
slonopotamus	X-Fade: will try increasing, ok.	18:50
slonopotamus	X-Fade: that another comment is from 24th april.	18:50
javispedro	Stskeeps: doesn't sound like a bad idea -- http://lists.cairographics.org/archives/cairo/2008-January/012833.html	18:50
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* RST38h moos at javispedro with intent		18:52
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RST38h	ehlo, slonopotamus	18:52
javispedro	hello RST38h	18:53
DocScrutinizer	heh sflphone :-)	18:53
* wazd kinda opened cycling season :)		18:54
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slonopotamus	DocScrutinizer: :P	18:57
slonopotamus	RST38h: hi	18:57
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RST38h	OMG: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/04/iretrofone-base-iphone.jpg	19:00
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javispedro	No rotary dial. Less weight than a nomad. Lame.	19:01
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RST38h	Maybe you are supposed to rotate the iphone?	19:01
RST38h	Hmmm...AllAboutSymbian claims N8 has got 640x360 screen. Lame.	19:01
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* slonopotamus definitely likes latest xkcd comics on hdtv		19:02
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: "multiple transmit antennas are co-located at one transmitter"	19:03
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slonopotamus	http://xkcd.com/732/	19:03
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: the question is if there are 2 transmitters and there are no matter if they use one or two antennas	19:04
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Khertan	someone can explain why return key on n900 isn t equal to QtCore.Qt.Key_Return ?	19:06
chem\|st	the transmitters are boxed in ASICs, could be one could be two could be three ASICs doesn't matter	19:06
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timeless_mbp	Trizt: were you asking about broken identifer_strings_appearing_in_the_ui ?	19:06
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timeless_mbp	i just hit one today and will try to chase it down	19:06
chem\|st	Khertan: it is equal to KP_Enter	19:06
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frals	Khertan: its sending numpad_enter or such	19:06
Khertan	hum .... strange	19:06
Khertan	but thx	19:06
chem\|st	Khertan: if you want something recognize it look for KP_Enter	19:07
Khertan	qt the portable framework where everythings need to be refine by plateform ...	19:07
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chem\|st	Khertan: but be aware that fakekey KP_Enter sends a KEY_Return	19:08
frals	well they are different keys so... :P	19:08
frals	youd prolly be better off matching against both key_return and kp_enter	19:08
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chem\|st	frals: true	19:08
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nid0	huh.	19:10
nid0	non-removable battery in the n8.	19:10
Trizt	timeless_mbp; yeah, from the skype	19:10
Trizt	timeless_mbp; do you want it once more, the key name?	19:11
uberdisk	I'm trying to build a theme with the "Theming for Dummies" -guide. It builds okay, but files go into the root of "/usr/share/themes"... Not in a folder. What is the problem? :)	19:11
uberdisk	Anyone willing to help?	19:11
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chem\|st	nid0: "Possibility to use capacitive stylus" I dont care gimme resistive	19:11
Khertan	i m trying to understand how qt works	19:12
MohammadAG_	<nid0> non-removable battery in the n8.	19:12
MohammadAG_	huh	19:12
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nid0	tbh, the n8 is looking like a smashing good phone overall though	19:12
timeless_mbp	i have it in logs	19:12
timeless_mbp	i have a simpler/easier to hit case which i'll use to chase the problem	19:12
chem\|st	nid0: yes but missing two essential things	19:12
nid0	such as?	19:12
Khertan	is there a way to traps return in a QTextEdit without trapping anykeys, test if return then do your method	19:13
Khertan	as it s kinda slow to trap each key	19:13
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Trizt	timeless_mbp; good, but I keep the log until I see it's been fixed	19:13
MohammadAG_	nid0, right, it's a good phone, with a bad OS	19:13
* timeless_mbp nods		19:13
nid0	not really. symbian gets far more stick than it deserves.	19:14
chem\|st	nid0: a kbd and a resistive screen... and maemo	19:14
nid0	it may not be the new shiney thing, but it works, it works really well, and it's simple to use.	19:14
nid0	chem\|st it's aimed as a media phone, keyboard's pointless, and most people want capacitive screens, because theyre generally much nicer as long as the ui's suitable	19:15
lcuk	how do far eastern folks enter text on capacitive screens?	19:16
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Khertan	also how to make a widget similar to hildon.PannableArea in Qt ?	19:17
chem\|st	nid0: well if Im not able to sketch properly I dont need it, the hdmi out is nice though, its an xpress-music successor though	19:17
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Khertan	what is the widget name ?	19:17
lostinmirkwood	Is there a way to set the current n900 clipboard (copy/paste) through an ssh session?	19:17
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lcuk	Khertan, open qt creator and look through the examples	19:17
nid0	ofc it is, its a £300 phone, at that price it's aimed strictly at midrange and it has an assload of top of the line features nonetheless	19:17
lcuk	theres many ways to skin a cat	19:17
chem\|st	lcuk: chinese handwriting recognition....	19:17
lcuk	chem\|st, bit difficult if you are finger painting	19:18
nid0	i've just seen the gallery from it's camera, and that alone is a very good selling point	19:18
chem\|st	lcuk: the kids learn to draw the chinese signs with their fingers first afaik	19:18
lcuk	chem\|st, ofc	19:18
lcuk	but then you evolve and use a pen/pencil :)	19:18
lcuk	nid0, it looks very pretty	19:18
lcuk	how would it look with the 1000+ images ive got on my device	19:19
Khertan	lcuk : qtcreator not available on n900	19:19
nid0	lcuk: sorry?	19:19
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Khertan	and anyway if ki ask is because i ve found example in qtcreator	19:19
nid0	oh sorry I mean a gallery of images taken by the camera, not the device's image gallery	19:19
lcuk	nid0, the video demo shown hasnt got many photos in it	19:20
nid0	dunno about a video demo, i just looked at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/first-12-megapixel-sample-photos-shot-on-nokia-n8-untouched/	19:20
nid0	it has a selection of full-size images from the camera	19:20
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lcuk	cool	19:20
chem\|st	this thing looks like the answer to sony's media phones	19:21
MohammadAG_	meh	19:23
MohammadAG_	updated my PS3	19:23
RST38h	Hmmm those N8 photos are pretty damn decent for a cell phone	19:23
MohammadAG_	:(	19:23
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lcuk	agreed RST38h not bad quality at all	19:23
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nid0	I wonder what the reasoning is for the nonremovable battery though	19:27
Trizt	more like iphone	19:27
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Andy80	hi all	19:28
RST38h	N8 battery not removable???	19:28
Andy80	I'm trying to use the N900 emulator inside the latest Qt Creator beta, but....	19:28
* javispedro doesn't think the photos are that great..		19:28
Andy80	is it just a dummy picture?	19:28
javispedro	full sunlight and still you can easily tell they're from a camera phone..	19:28
Andy80	nothing works	19:29
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MohammadAG_	lol why is their an uncovered torx scren on the N8	19:29
MohammadAG_	screw*	19:29
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG_, ! loving noor english ver	19:29
nid0	I dont recall seeing any other mid-range phones that can match those pictures	19:29
nid0	so they aint that bad	19:29
RST38h	javispedro: for a phone, they are pretty good	19:29
MohammadAG_	Noobmonk3y, :)	19:29
Noobmonk3y	1 suggestion.... bigggggger icons needed	19:29
RST38h	javispedro: n900 does worse	19:29
* MohammadAG_ updated his PS3, MW2!!!!		19:29
javispedro	RST38h: ofc.	19:29
MohammadAG_	Noobmonk3y, will check that, qwerty12 made the smaller I think	19:29
Noobmonk3y	:)	19:30
RST38h	Of course, I would prefer a bigger sensor and better optics	19:30
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javispedro	640x360.. hmpf.	19:33
javispedro	16:9, makes sense from a marketing PoV...	19:33
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Veggen	yah...Ukraine is a polictically stable country, sure....(my $BigCorp-employer bought a part of a company there for the cheap labor on basis that it was a "reasonably stable" country)	19:35
PhonicUK	Andy80, Qt Creator 2 alpha doesn't have the emulator yet	19:35
PhonicUK	hence being an Alpha version	19:35
PhonicUK	works fine if you connect to an actual N900 though	19:36
Andy80	I'm using thr BETA not the alpha	19:36
Andy80	released today	19:36
PhonicUK	ooooooh!	19:36
PhonicUK	linky?	19:36
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* RST38h laughs satanically at the mention of .UA as a "politically stable country"		19:36
Andy80	http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/Tools/IDEs/Nokia_Qt_SDK/	19:37
RST38h	javispedro: it is much easier, their S60e5 UI is not scalable	19:37
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javispedro	I can see them just bitmap-scaling the screen to the 1080p on HDMI output	19:38
javispedro	hm... http://www.forum.nokia.com/pics/Qt_SDK_Sim_01.png	19:39
PhonicUK	Maemo Hamarattan? :\|	19:39
PhonicUK	* Harmattan	19:39
RST38h	javispedro: seen interactive demo of that already	19:39
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zaheerm	i am guessing hd video playback will not be scaled down for screen and then rescaled up to 720p/1080i/1080p	19:40
javispedro	yeah, DUI. Though.. device emulator?	19:40
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PhonicUK	http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Harmattan	19:40
javispedro	ah, simulator :P	19:40
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kamui	pr 1.2 sigh sauce	19:56
* andrewfblack loves how people can't wait for pr 1.2 so they can wait for pr 1.3 so they cant wait for Meego 1.0 so they can wait for Meego 1.2 so they can....		19:57
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* Trizt thinks his n900 is lagish after running for 9d without reboot		20:07
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Shapeshifter	andrewfblack: though the autobuilder screwup really was fail	20:12
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RST38h	OMG, they ARE releasing a successor to E70!	20:13
andrewfblack	Shapeshifter: ??	20:13
RST38h	ShadowJK: Rejoice! REJOICE!	20:13
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RST38h	Wait. It is 320x240. Bummer.	20:14
ShadowJK	:(	20:14
ShadowJK	standard symbian these days I guess :/	20:15
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RST38h	Shadow: http://www.mobile-review.com/lj/2699.jpg	20:16
javispedro	what's that? A featurephone?	20:16
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DocScrutinizer51	now THAT's ugly	20:17
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javispedro	320x240 is the number of pixels I'd expect on a wrist watch these days.	20:18
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kamui	andrewfblack, I want fixes	20:19
kamui	i want refinement	20:19
kamui	I want every incremental update I can get my hands on	20:19
javispedro	have you built them?	20:19
javispedro	all the open components have their pr1.2 source in gitorious	20:19
DocScrutinizer51	I want a Pb2Au converter	20:19
* javispedro has installed a few of them		20:19
kamui	javispedro, good idea	20:20
DocScrutinizer51	javispedro: you talked to MohammadAG_ ?	20:20
javispedro	about?	20:20
* andrewfblack is only person who doesn't care about Pr 1.2 lol		20:21
Shapeshifter	andrewfblack: autobuilder using pr1.2 way before any release ondevice	20:21
DocScrutinizer51	PR1.2 components on N900	20:21
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* javispedro doesn't care about pr1.2 but he's working on a pr1.2 library atm		20:21
javispedro	s/on/with	20:21
andrewfblack	Shapeshifter: thats true but they did same with pr 1.1 maybe not this long out but it was a week or two	20:21
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javispedro	Shapeshifter: that should be pretty much fixed now (both Gtk & Qt+)	20:22
Shapeshifter	well this is not a week or two	20:22
Shapeshifter	javispedro: sur but it wssnt for like a monthe	20:22
Shapeshifter	fail typing	20:22
DocScrutinizer51	really? haven't noticed similar major problems when 1.1 came out	20:23
javispedro	LOL to rant about MWKN not putting enough PR1.2 news	20:23
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GeneralAntilles	javispedro, they're holding out on us!!!	20:24
GeneralAntilles	Hello, bergie.	20:24
RST38h	evil, evil	20:24
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bergie	hey GeneralAntilles	20:25
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javispedro	ah, sending stories to mkwn requires a twitter account =)	20:26
MohammadAG_	<DocScrutinizer51> javispedro: you talked to MohammadAG_ ? <- ?	20:26
MohammadAG_	oh	20:27
javispedro	MohammadAG_: I guess he thinks you're a hardcore PR1.2 fan or something.	20:27
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javispedro	is it the case?	20:27
MohammadAG_	no, but I installed PR1.2 packages yesterday	20:27
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javispedro	a	20:27
MohammadAG_	just to prove the guy on the forums wrong :P	20:27
MohammadAG_	javispedro, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=628580&postcount=264	20:27
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javispedro	well, keyboards are usually closed	20:29
mece	LOL	20:29
javispedro	I wonder why nobody tries doing a portrait keyboard, if there's that much demand.	20:29
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nid0	heh	20:36
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nid0	nice rip on apple by nokia asking for their n8 prototype back	20:36
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mece	where?	20:38
nid0	http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/04/27/one-of-our-children-is-missing/	20:38
GeneralAntilles	nid0, just like the N900 preview.	20:39
GeneralAntilles	Eldar's kind of an idiot.	20:39
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nid0	I noticed that very quickly on seeing his posts on tmo	20:39
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MohammadAG_	lol GeneralAntilles	20:40
florian	re	20:41
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Wolfie	nid0: "culture of openness"? that wasn't the impression i got when I worked over there	20:43
RST38h	Poor Eldar, now he is gonna look like a kidnapper =)	20:43
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Wolfie	didn't feel like there was any kind of culture, actually. Other than taking an afternoon coffee at the cantine and looking at the shift change :)	20:43
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nid0	Wolfie: I didnt write the post, just pointed out the rather blatant scathe on apple's doings and handling of the 4g business in the last paragraph	20:43
Wolfie	yeah, i know	20:43
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Wolfie	for some change reason i chose to reply to you nevertheless	20:44
Stskeeps	RST38h: next up is accusing him of abusing one of their children	20:44
Wolfie	"strange", not change	20:44
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nid0	it's certainly a very different approach to the one apple took though.	20:44
Wolfie	a better one, I'd say	20:44
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Wolfie	the milk has already been spilled...	20:45
RST38h	Stskeeps: Of course he had anal sex with that N8 proto!	20:45
RST38h	Stskeeps: I mean, can there be any doubt? =)	20:46
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Stskeeps	how hard can it be anyhow - check all protos are accounted for, the ones which are missing..	20:48
Stskeeps	except if he has a nokia friend :P	20:48
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javispedro	just remote-enable the gps and fire a icbm	20:48
RST38h	Stskeeps: that friend may be in trouble now	20:48
RST38h	javispedro: detonate the Li battery	20:49
RST38h	remotely	20:49
Stskeeps	RST38h: probably	20:49
javispedro	RST38h: now we know why bme is closed	20:49
RST38h	twue	20:49
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RST38h	But I am sure you can find the right /sys file to echo "boom" to	20:49
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m77771111	Hi. I want to use n810 as portable microphone that can be used on other linux machine as sound input (-;	20:55
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lcuk	m77771111, technically afaik you can use gstreamer and send stuff over the network	20:59
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lcuk	but sure how far or simple to configure it is	20:59
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DocScrutinizer51	wtf is wrong with xchat now?.	21:00
mece	is there something wrong?	21:00
DocScrutinizer51	see join-msgs of last few minutes	21:01
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DocScrutinizer51	prolly a restart might fix it	21:01
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javispedro	scrolling back? too much work, no way.	21:01
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lcuk	VDVsx, did you enjoy your kebab	21:02
MohammadAG_	* DocScrutinizer51 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) <-- freenode hates you	21:02
MohammadAG_	:P	21:02
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DocScrutinizer	freggin bad luck	21:03
VDVsx	lcuk, lol	21:03
VDVsx	pizza	21:03
DocScrutinizer	FSSSCK	21:03
lcuk	cool stuff	21:03
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rm_you	I miss Kebab :(	21:03
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rm_you	Europe rules.	21:03
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rm_you	if only for Kebab EVERYWHERE	21:03
lcuk	i dont recall you wanting kebab	21:03
lcuk	unless kebab is american for "sleeping on the bathroom floor"	21:04
rm_you	rofl	21:04
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rm_you	kebab was my go-to meal for fast food :P	21:04
lcuk	how you doin rm_you	21:04
RST38h	rm_me	21:04
rm_you	for the three weeks or so collectively i've been in europe now (all for maemo) i've had kebab like 40 times	21:04
rm_you	lcuk: still very unemployed	21:04
lcuk	eep thats not very good	21:05
rm_you	wanting to do n900 development but feeling very directionless	21:05
rm_you	ABL isn't really necessary	21:05
lcuk	40 kebabs in 21 days mmm	21:05
rm_you	hate to say it but i think quim was right	21:05
lcuk	i bet the people on the plane loved you	21:05
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, lol.	21:05
RST38h	rm_me: In what way?	21:05
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, never admit defeat!	21:05
rm_you	lol	21:05
rm_you	well	21:05
GeneralAntilles	We need profiles and shit!	21:05
* DocScrutinizer burps from kebab 10min ago		21:05
GeneralAntilles	Emphasis on the shit!	21:05
rm_you	in the... 5 months or so I used my n900 before it broke	21:05
javispedro	we need SHIT?	21:06
rm_you	i used qwerty's quick backlight statusbar hack	21:06
RST38h	need better shit	21:06
rm_you	and i still only ever changed the backlight level maybe three times	21:06
rm_you	the entire 5 months	21:06
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oli	hello	21:06
m77771111	lcuk not found "gstreamer" in an application manager )	21:06
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: lol i'	21:06
lcuk	gstreamer is not an application	21:06
GeneralAntilles	Super Hitech Information Technology	21:06
lcuk	its a framework	21:06
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: lol i'll get right on the "shit" then :P	21:06
javispedro	aha, acronym's day	21:06
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, I change it at least 3 times a day.	21:06
lcuk	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/simple-brightness-applet/	21:06
rm_you	yes, that	21:07
lcuk	has at least pieces of you rm_you i believe	21:07
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* GeneralAntilles is rebooting into Windows 7 to play Stacraft II		21:07
* GeneralAntilles feels dirty.		21:07
rm_you	i mean, qwerty coded that up in like two hours on day three or so	21:07
lcuk	then play other games then GeneralAntilles	21:07
oli	sorry, does anyone have "screen" package for diablo? I can't google it...	21:07
rm_you	and it works fine	21:08
lcuk	you dont have to just play starcraft lol	21:08
rm_you	the rest of ABL isn't really necessary either	21:08
javispedro	yes, he does.	21:08
rm_you	volume and such doesn't need to be compacted	21:08
rm_you	rotation support... well	21:08
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oli	or maybe any repository where I can find 'screen'	21:08
javispedro	oli: tools repo	21:08
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RST38h	rm_you: ABL is not the only widget that can be useful	21:08
lcuk	i was at someones house last night that has an upside down maemo and ABL wouldv worked	21:08
rm_you	right	21:08
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oli	jacekowski: thank you	21:08
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rm_you	RST38h: right, but that's why i said I feel directionless :P	21:08
lcuk	VDVsx, what pizza did u have	21:09
rm_you	no idea what to do now that my main project is basically dead	21:09
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lcuk	rm_you, what did you do before abl tho	21:10
RST38h	rm_you: decent message box widget would be nice	21:10
RST38h	rm_you: current one is not even resizable	21:10
rm_you	lcuk: hacked on a2dp support for mplayer on n800 :P	21:10
rm_you	submitted a patch or two to mplayer for fixing it with video	21:10
rm_you	that's about it	21:10
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* javispedro ponders caring about Big Endian platforms or not...		21:11
RST38h	rm_you: then, decent rss reader applet	21:11
rm_you	the backlight thing basically fell into my lap. people were like "we need to change backlight levels" and i was like, k i can do that]	21:11
rm_you	hrmrm	21:11
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GAN900	lol	21:11
DocScrutinizer	LOL, my ssh to N900 is still up and running, despite the device been well out of reach of WLAN several times for several hours since I logged in :-D	21:11
rm_you	alright, what RSS readers are available now, and what is wrong with them?	21:11
GAN900	I hand picked you to implement my master plan, you rube.	21:12
rm_you	lol GAN	21:12
rm_you	I suppose it worked pretty well then :P	21:12
rm_you	an RSS reader seems doable	21:12
GAN900	jott, however, was just luck	21:12
rm_you	lol	21:12
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rm_you	jott I paid $20 to fix a problem :P	21:12
rm_you	and then he stuck around	21:12
rm_you	which was neat cause he was a cool guy.... wonder what happened to gim	21:13
rm_you	*him	21:13
RST38h	rm_you: well, there are several rss reader apps, but the thing is that there is no decent rss applet, that would show the maximal number of news, be configurable, and would not eat cpu	21:13
rm_you	hrmrm	21:13
rm_you	so	21:13
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rm_you	very minimal RSS homescreen applet	21:13
johnsq	Hi	21:13
RST38h	configurable, too	21:14
rm_you	when you say configurable	21:14
rm_you	what would you like to be able to configure?	21:14
rm_you	size?	21:14
lcuk	use 2pt font	21:14
lcuk	for maximum density	21:14
rm_you	lol lcuk	21:14
lcuk	or is that too extreme - perhaps 8?	21:14
rm_you	RST38h: i don't use RSS much	21:14
rm_you	so i don't know what a good RSS applet would look like or behave like	21:14
lcuk	thats potentially a good thing	21:15
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rm_you	but if you talk me through designing your "dream RSS applet" i can prolly whip up the specs and UML for it and go :P	21:15
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rm_you	all part of that "requirements specification" stage of software design :P	21:16
RST38h	rm_you: ok, let me think of something else	21:16
RST38h	rm_you: how about a usable music player that lets you play files rather than tracker db entries?	21:17
rm_you	lol	21:17
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rm_you	so, does its own indexing, or just doesn't index at all?	21:17
RST38h	does not index at all	21:17
rm_you	IE, a music player that just traverses the filesystem as you wish?	21:17
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lcuk	i keep pondering nice and simple - volcano distance widget	21:17
RST38h	but lets you create and use playlists	21:17
rm_you	lol lcuk	21:17
rm_you	RST38h: aight. gstreamer fine?	21:18
lcuk	"you are 200 miles from nearest active volcano - RUN"	21:18
RST38h	rm_you: Yes. A simple music player. Guess so	21:18
RST38h	rm_you: iPod UI simulation a plus =)	21:18
rm_you	i could work out using mplayer as a backend but gstreamer is prolly simpler	21:18
rm_you	lol RST38h	21:18
rm_you	lcuk: like the belltower app?	21:18
* RST38h actually started on this but did not have time to finish		21:18
GAN900	rm_you, yeah, he idled for, like, 6 months without responding to anything then one day he wasn't idling anymore.	21:18
rm_you	lcuk: i can only assume it is to warn you about possible crazy snipers...	21:18
lcuk	rm_you, yeah, but belltowers dont usually block entire continents	21:19
rm_you	GAN900: yep, i have his phone number	21:19
rm_you	GAN900: thought about calling him	21:19
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lcuk	~seen jott	21:19
infobot	jott <n=j@unaffiliated/jott> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 564d 3h 4m 32s ago, saying: ':)'.	21:19
rm_you	RST38h: what language were you using?	21:19
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GAN900	rm_you, dooo	21:19
RST38h	rm_you: C, as usual	21:19
rm_you	RST38h: yeah, figured :P	21:19
RST38h	there is another project like that, gimmea moment to find it	21:20
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rm_you	i'm on more of a python kick currently, but it does worry me a bit still performance-wise	21:20
lcuk	rm_you, for regulat apps pyqt is seemingly getting better	21:20
lcuk	regular	21:20
rm_you	then again, it is a lot better than n800 for it	21:20
DocScrutinizer	famous last words :-)	21:20
rm_you	my C is really basic/minimal :P	21:20
rm_you	always a good time to learn i guess, right? :P	21:21
rm_you	it's just, whenever I use C i always feel like I'm going to have memory leaks everywhere T)T	21:21
rm_you	*T_T	21:22
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RST38h	rm_you: never use new	21:23
RST38h	or malloc	21:23
DocScrutinizer	lol	21:23
rm_you	lol	21:23
DocScrutinizer	or goto?	21:23
rm_you	i know, i'll just call new a bunch and have a conditional goto before the deletes :P	21:23
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javispedro	RST38h: admit it, you want a winamp clone	21:26
* javispedro still uses winamp even under gnu for some reason he believes is related to the "Play folder" menu item		21:26
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RST38h	javispedro: yep.	21:27
DocScrutinizer	rm_you: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-04-26.log.html#t2010-04-26T02:15:47	21:28
RST38h	rm_you: CHeck this one out: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30901	21:29
javispedro	hah	21:29
DocScrutinizer	rm_you: python is not the best choice for all sorts of projects	21:29
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javispedro	actually .pyo "optimization", last time I looked at it, was just "removing the comments"	21:29
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javispedro	(note that removing comments in python is not trivial -- breaks inline documentation, and some apps actually RELY on that)	21:29
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lcuk	javispedro, noobmonk3y saved 20% of his startup by removing comments	21:30
lcuk	i wonder what a reduction in variables would bring too	21:30
javispedro	because to actually strip comments automatically you have to invoke the optimizer manually iirc	21:30
javispedro	with -O	21:30
lcuk	ie "mybloodylongvariablereference" -> "a"	21:30
rm_you	lol	21:31
rm_you	DocScrutinizer: yeah, i know. It's not my OneBigHammer, i'm just sayin' it'd be neat to get to use it once in a while for something :P	21:32
javispedro	actually, I read that they fixed this in whatever python version I have now -- -O strips comments but not docstrings, -O -O strips everything	21:32
frals	a finally back on the ground	21:32
lcuk	javispedro, did you see the python speedup thread	21:32
rm_you	so, media player, maybe not?	21:33
lcuk	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50737	21:33
Arkenoi	VERSION null	21:33
rm_you	back to RSS applet? lol	21:33
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javispedro	lcuk: think so, cause I remember somebody speaking about pros cons of python-launcher recently..	21:33
lcuk	rm_you, mafw should give backend support?	21:33
* satmd sees		21:33
frals	love when you get off the plane, as you arrive your luggage comes up and you get on the train back to the city and it leaves within a minute	21:33
lcuk	but use your own control to choose songs based on folder etc?	21:33
lcuk	frals, oh hai	21:34
frals	o/	21:34
lcuk	speak of the devil! lol	21:34
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rm_you	i mean, Quasar looks like what RST wanted, but already complete :P	21:34
lcuk	how many new versions of fmms did you build whilst waiting at airport?	21:34
javispedro	those evil python users! ;)	21:34
frals	none!	21:35
rm_you	RST38h: you seen Quasar?	21:35
frals	almost finished my book thou	21:35
lcuk	:D cool stuff	21:35
lcuk	speaking of book ive got one to finish	21:35
frals	first time in almost a year ive had time to read :)	21:36
lcuk	whats yours frals	21:36
lcuk	planes do that	21:36
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frals	"bones" by jonathan kellerman	21:37
RST38h	rm_you: Yea. it is pretty cool	21:37
* lcuk is just finishing the dreaming void and will start on the next one soon		21:37
andrewfblack	I wander if Qgil would freak out if I sold my N900 lol j/k	21:37
RST38h	rm_you: But it is not complete, not packaged for Maemo5, not being worked on, and uses mplayer	21:37
lcuk	frals, the book of the series?	21:37
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frals	na	21:37
RST38h	rm_you: notice no-finger-scrolling and other problems	21:37
Stskeeps	andrewfblack: well, you'd be in breach of a contract :P	21:37
RST38h	rm_you: Adopting it to Maemo well and packaging the results would be cool	21:37
andrewfblack	Stskeeps: didn't sign a contract mine isn't a Summit one :) Just joking anyways	21:38
rm_you	RST38h: hrmrm	21:38
rm_you	lol, Quim said he gave a new device and my address to his secretary at the end of last month, been 30 days and nothing's shown up, so i guess i give up	21:39
rm_you	and now he's all Volcanoed along with the rest of europe	21:39
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andrewfblack	rm_you: email him for the tracking number if its lost in mail he would want to know	21:40
rm_you	i can still do testing tho if i charge my battery in my friend's n810 :P	21:40
rm_you	I did email him, haven't heard back	21:40
rm_you	i think he got volcanoed in	21:40
rm_you	that	21:40
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rm_you	that's what i heard at least	21:40
rm_you	RST38h: i'll look into that. i guess when i glanced at the page it looked like it was for maemo5 but i wasn't paying close attention	21:41
opdf2	not sure if my slider is loose, but...is the lcd supposed to wiggle a little back and forth when it is midway up?	21:42
rm_you	ah, yeah it's for diablo, k	21:42
rm_you	opdf2: yeah it does that on all of them	21:42
rm_you	a bit scary but "normal"	21:42
opdf2	rm_you: whew ty	21:42
ech0HTPC	what it do/	21:42
Arkenoi	wimax terribly sucks today.. it worked just fine a few mothns ago :-(	21:43
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rm_you	Arkenoi: are you sure you weren't just like... really stoned a few months ago, and it SEEMED fast/working? :P	21:43
lcuk	when jake gets a hole in his pants	21:43
lcuk	he sticks finder in and shows us	21:43
lcuk	"look a hole"	21:44
lcuk	it starts off about 2mm	21:44
lcuk	and ends up being the size of his knee	21:44
rm_you	lol	21:44
lcuk	i think of that everytime someone says "X wiggles or moves or whatever"	21:44
rm_you	when i get a hole in the knee of my jeans, inevitably i start to put them on, get a toe stuck in it, and RIIIIIIP	21:44
rm_you	and then it's the size of the entire pantsleg	21:45
Arkenoi	rm_you: i am pretty sure	21:45
lcuk	did your toe cause the hole? o_O	21:45
rm_you	not to begin with	21:45
rm_you	lol	21:45
lcuk	cut ur nails to be sure	21:45
Arkenoi	i mean sure i was not ;-)	21:45
rm_you	lol	21:45
yuizy_	my n900 won't charge, i've used three different chargers and also tried to remove the battery, but there's no orange light	21:45
yuizy_	any solution?	21:45
rm_you	lol Arkenoi, never had good experience with wimax personally, so	21:46
rm_you	yuizy_: is the USB connector still attached to the device? :P	21:46
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slonopotamus	yuizy_, broken mini-usb port?	21:46
rm_you	yuizy_: or stuck at sort of an odd angle in the usb hole?	21:46
yuizy_	it seems ok, nothing weird	21:46
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rm_you	look REALLY closely	21:46
yuizy_	i once broke it really bad and got a new device from the shop	21:47
rm_you	lol	21:47
Arkenoi	rm_you: cdma-450 sucks even more, and i have no internet here besides these two	21:47
rm_you	:(	21:47
yuizy_	hey thanks	21:48
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yuizy_	i pushed it hard and it started to charge	21:48
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yuizy_	but it won't probably last long	21:48
rm_you	yuizy_: yeah that's fucked	21:49
rm_you	go get a new device again	21:49
rm_you	and hope the person at the store doesn't look at you weirdly for "breaking" a second one	21:50
slonopotamus	yuizy_, broken usb connector is a warranty case	21:51
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yuizy_	even if i overclocked the phone?	21:52
rm_you	clock it back and pretend you didn't? O_o	21:52
slonopotamus	no connection between those	21:53
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rm_you	right but try explaining it to a retail drone T_T	21:54
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nid0	sigh @ users	21:56
slonopotamus	rm_you, i just went to repair service with my n900.	21:57
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rm_you	and?	21:58
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slono[n800]	rm_you, and they replaced whole motherboard	21:59
Stskeeps	eep	21:59
Stskeeps	:P	21:59
rm_you	lol	21:59
* SpeedEvil wonders what happens to the old motehrboards		21:59
rm_you	qt4-dev-tools: Depends: libqt4-dbus (= 4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo6+0m5) but 4.6.2~git20100310-0maemo1+0m5 is to be installed	21:59
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rm_you	hrmrm	21:59
rm_you	using =dep	22:00
slono[n800]	they go to motherboard heaven	22:00
Stskeeps	reused as maemo.org servers	22:00
Stskeeps	;)	22:00
slono[n800]	full of jumpers and various periferal devices ready to be connected	22:00
Stskeeps	motherboard orgies?	22:01
* javispedro envisions a n900 motherboard cluster, matrix style.		22:01
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slono[n800]	Stskeeps, well, they usually have more than one connector :)	22:01
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SpeedEvil	from the POV that I'd like to try to put the n900 in a silly box.	22:03
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* DocScrutinizer burps and reboots a few of the 770 in maemo.org		22:05
SystemParadox	does anyone know anything about the N900 proximity sensor? How does it know not to pay attention when I press the button with my face? More importantly, why is the magnet in my belt case affecting the screen even when key locked?	22:06
slono[n800]	SystemParadox, magnet affects keyboard lock	22:06
slono[n800]	SystemParadox, it thinks yoou slided out kb	22:07
nid0	re the magent, its because the keyboard slider also uses a magnet. if you hold a magnet anywhere near the bottom right corner of the phone as you look at it in landscape, it thinks the keyboard's been opened	22:07
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DocScrutinizer	SystemParadox: the proximity sensor is an IR-reflective active sensor	22:07
nid0	if you have a case magnet, it needs to be away from the bottom right	22:07
slono[n800]	nid0, i was faster :P	22:07
nid0	:<	22:07
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DocScrutinizer	also the backlid sensor is a hallsensor that detects the little magnet that holds the kickstand	22:08
SystemParadox	nid0, oh, that makes sense. That explains why it turns off again if I move the magnet away	22:08
SystemParadox	DocScrutinizer, huh?	22:09
GAN900	lcuk, the aliens are mating!	22:09
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DocScrutinizer	SystemParadox: huh what?	22:09
nid0	SystemParadox: in other words there is a second magnet that does similar near the camera, but certainly with the magnet on my case, itll never trigger the backlid sensor, only ever the keyboard slider	22:10
SystemParadox	it detects the kickstand magnet? Is it supposed to? Does it use this information for anything? Or is this a fault?	22:10
DocScrutinizer	SystemParadox: the magnet is statically fixed to the back cover	22:11
RST38h	Supposed to do it	22:11
nid0	ofc, its a sensor to detect that the back panel's on	22:11
nid0	it's there to (primarily) unmount the sd card when the back's off so it can be hot swapped	22:11
nid0	not sure if it does much else?	22:11
SystemParadox	ah that makes sense	22:11
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DocScrutinizer	SystemParadox: the kickstand has no magnet, just a piece of iron	22:11
DocScrutinizer	nid0: first of all it toggles a sysnode	22:12
DocScrutinizer	;-D	22:12
SystemParadox	the only thing I could think of was detecting the kickstand, but that would be impressive given that it's not the magnet that moves	22:12
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DocScrutinizer	what the system does on sensing this state change, is another question. For now it's just unmounting the uSD afaik	22:14
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SystemParadox	nid0, any ideas how to stop this from happening? It seems to affect it from the back too, though not so much	22:15
nid0	keep the magnet away from that corner of the phone	22:15
DocScrutinizer	doing a sync;sync and freeze the system would also be nice, to avoid fs corruption on unadvertised battery removal	22:15
nid0	or buy a new case with a magnet in a better place	22:15
nid0	I have a landscape case with the magnet in the middle (kind of where the H and N are on the keyboard) and it doesnt trigger the lock	22:16
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rm_you	what's the CPU tag for n900?	22:16
rm_you	like, for n800 it was: mcpu=arm1136jf-s'	22:16
nid0	ah SystemParadox, you're in the uk?	22:16
rm_you	minus the quote	22:16
SystemParadox	ok thanks very much. My case has two magnets. Yes I'm in the UK	22:17
nid0	I can thoroughly recommend	22:17
nid0	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280476080517&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT	22:17
nid0	dirt cheap, but bloody good	22:17
DocScrutinizer	I have a landscape with 2 magnets, but they are very weak on the inside of thew pouch	22:17
DocScrutinizer	i.e large MU-metal plates inside behind the magnets on outside	22:18
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slono[n800]	rm_you, -mcpu=cortex-a8	22:18
rm_you	thx	22:18
lcuk	GAN900, eep ?	22:18
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satmd	oO	22:19
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* satmd waves at radic		22:19
SystemParadox	I think if I put it in facing away from the magnets it's ok, although I end up trigging it as I bring the phone past the open flap lol	22:19
radic	tach satmd	22:20
satmd	;)	22:20
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radic	satmd: was machst du hier?	22:20
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yuizy_	rm_you: i wish i could clock it back, it doesn't have any power left	22:20
satmd	radic: na, hab auch ein n900 ;)	22:20
radic	satmd: tauschen wir?	22:20
rm_you	yuizy_: n810? :P	22:20
satmd	wieso?	22:20
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satmd	;)	22:20
radic	satmd: ich hab nur ein N800	22:21
satmd	:(	22:21
SpeedEvil	nid0: So you take it out of the case to use it?	22:21
yuizy_	no, n900	22:21
nid0	SpeedEvil yes, I purely have the case to carry it round in	22:22
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yuizy_	is there any way to get my personal data out of the phone before returning it to shop	22:23
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petteri	If I update my n900 abroad will it get some wierd localized firmware version. Asking because on vacation this weekend and would like to update to PR1.2 if it comes :)	22:23
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javispedro	rm_you: you don't need to add a -mcpu setting any more; it's all handled by the toolchain if you use scratchbox.	22:24
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javispedro	(unless you want to play with Neon, since toolchain defaults to VFP)	22:24
MohammadAG_	any good sites that ship worldwide and sell the BH-214?	22:25
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opdf2	When the n900 says "fully charged" is it still trickle charging, or there is no charging at all?	22:26
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chem\|st	opdf2: no charging, and it is getting discharged over time	22:27
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chem\|st	yuizy_: backup and reflash	22:28
yuizy_	well, i need to get some power first	22:29
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bogie11	btw.. quick question	22:30
bogie11	when pr1.2 is coming ;)	22:31
javispedro	2012	22:31
bogie11	unified qt sdk requires it	22:31
bogie11	for n900	22:31
bogie11	http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Nokia_Qt_SDK_v1.0_Beta mentions "Maemo tool chain supporting N900 mobile computer to be available together with forthcoming firmware update"	22:32
javispedro	you can also just pull qt 4.6	22:32
DocScrutinizer	petteri: your special flavour will be retained on firmware update	22:33
petteri	DocScrutinizer: thanks for the info	22:34
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rm_you	yuizy_: i meant, do you have an n810? :P	22:35
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rm_you	yuizy_: cause you can charge the battery in an n810 and swap it back :P	22:35
rm_you	that's what i've been doing for a month now	22:35
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rm_you	so with the current sdk I don't need this line?	22:37
rm_you	TMAKE_CFLAGS += -O3 -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp	22:37
rm_you	other than the -O3	22:37
microlith	hmm	22:37
microlith	You know things are bad when you have to recommend an iPhone because nothing else works quite as well :/	22:38
johnsq	rm_you: -mfpu=neon ?	22:38
rm_you	johnsq: i have NO idea, i don't do low-level stuff usually	22:39
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rm_you	i don't know much about the hardware / cpu / floating point unit in the n900	22:39
rm_you	converting a makefile from n800->n900	22:40
johnsq	rm_you: i use -march=armv7-a -mtune=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp -ftree-vectorize for OMAP3440	22:40
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rm_you	johnsq: thanks	22:40
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yuizy_	rm_you: wow, didn't know that	22:43
yuizy_	cool	22:43
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rm_you	yuizy_: yeah, so, you take the battery, line up the contacts, take out the stylus, and wedge it behind the battery	22:44
rm_you	it will then charge :P	22:44
rm_you	the hilarious part is that the description of how to do that came from Quim :P	22:44
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tripzero	anyone have issues with wifi dropping/loosing connectino?	22:46
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budfive	can somebody answer a question about odd battery behavior on an n900? As I use the phone, I see the reported battery capacity stay at 100% and then after a day's use it all of a sudden jumps down to ~0 and demands that I charge it. The voltages reported by battery-eye and such do fall more steadily throughout the day, but it seems both should work. The phone is brand new	22:51
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budfive	anybody seen anything like this?	22:51
nid0	original battery?	22:51
tripzero	never seen it	22:51
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budfive	yes. original battery	22:55
MohammadAG_	I had it, it went from 50-60 to 0 in one go	22:55
budfive	everything brand new. just got it 2 days ago	22:55
budfive	MohammadAG_: always or just once. So far I've only seen this behavior	22:56
MohammadAG_	once	22:56
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yuizy_	thanks	22:58
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yuizy_	after 10 minutes of macgyvering it started to charge	22:59
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woglinde	jo	23:04
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rapidsp	re	23:09
rapidsp	whats language? english?	23:09
microlith	best bet :)	23:09
rapidsp	repository.maemo.org is not workable?	23:10
woglinde	~lart scrathcbox	23:11
* infobot whips out a shotgun, trudges over to scrathcbox, and goes postal		23:11
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rapidsp	anybody know about repository.marmo.org troubles?	23:14
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tank-man	rapidsp, check your spelling	23:15
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achipa	is it just me or is planet maemo dead ?	23:15
rapidsp	*maemo	23:15
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tank-man	i mean on your device, just in case you misspelled it there	23:15
rapidsp	i didnt change any settings...	23:16
rapidsp	"Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'"	23:17
DocScrutinizer	Oh shit - ovi is such a PITA. Trying to share 4 photos of my pouch - setting up my own host with apache is way easier	23:17
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DocScrutinizer	clicking share on N900 viewer I can't create a new album and just select 'all media' for upload location. And there's obviously no way to move those uploaded photos from private allmedia folder to a newly created pouch folder.	23:19
DocScrutinizer	fsck ovi	23:19
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rapidsp	i see nobody havent any problems with repository? my local problem?	23:20
woglinde	rapidsp seems the problem is at your side	23:20
woglinde	maybee akamei	23:20
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rapidsp	woglinde: thanks :)	23:21
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rapidsp	but 'apt-get update' is downloading something from downloads.maemo.nokia.com... very slowly... :)	23:25
woglinde	as I said maybe akamei problem	23:25
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woglinde	nokia is using akamei service for world wide distribution	23:26
rapidsp	may be akamai?	23:27
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nid0	I actually found ovi share to be not that bad	23:29
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DocScrutinizer	nid0: ok, maybe I'm stupid. But how do I move a photo from one album to another?	23:30
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nid0	via the share site?	23:33
nid0	if you have the thumbnail view of images, just select the dropdown in the bottom right of image in question, select add, then choose the album to add it to	23:34
DocScrutinizer	nid0: err huh? I don't want to send a mail to someone	23:34
DocScrutinizer	ooh	23:34
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nid0	or open the individual image, then select "add to an album" at the bottom and select the album	23:34
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DocScrutinizer	nid0: thanks mate - seems I need a coffee and a valium ;-)	23:37
DocScrutinizer	though it probably doesn't matter anymore - here's my pouch (5.75EUR) works great despite 2 magnet snappers http://share.ovi.com/album/joerg900.pouch	23:38
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rlinfati	Hi...	23:38
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rlinfati	what happen if i do.... tar zxf fremantle-arm-sysroot-1014-slim.tar.gz -C / on my n900 ?	23:39
woglinde	rlinfati hm maybee the system will hang	23:40
woglinde	and not starting after reboot	23:40
rlinfati	i want pr1.2 :P	23:40
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woglinde	pr1.2 is now shipped?	23:41
rlinfati	nop	23:41
tripzero	boo	23:41
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tripzero	pr1.2: fix my wifi!!	23:42
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woglinde	whats wrong with wifi?	23:42
nid0	DocScrutinizer: ah nifty pouch, I guess those bigass metal clasps do dull the magnets inside the case somewhat :)	23:42
DocScrutinizer	yep	23:42
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DocScrutinizer	no problems with slider sensor recognized so far	23:42
rlinfati	my n900 need a re-flash.... but i no want install the pr1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 and a week after re-re-flash to pr1.2...	23:43
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nid0	whats wrong with doing an ota upgrade to 1.2?	23:44
rlinfati	nothing..	23:45
nid0	so why would you need to re-re-flash to 1.2 when it's released	23:45
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DocScrutinizer	btw PR1.2 is just 7:41 away	23:49
DocScrutinizer	:-P	23:49
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woglinde	dco sure?	23:49
rapidsp	heh... resolved by removing some .Packages :)	23:49
DocScrutinizer	hmm, Apr 29. -> HK release of N900-chinese edition with PR1.2	23:50
budfive	DocScrutinizer: I got the N900 after talking to you about it. Think it was a good decision. Thanks!	23:50
sECuRE	is there an announce for the HK release?	23:50
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DocScrutinizer	budfive: :-D welcome	23:51
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DocScrutinizer	therwe is, somebody might still have the URL of the blog	23:51
woglinde	hm thats fake	23:51
woglinde	I truly believe	23:52
DocScrutinizer	maybe	23:52
* DocScrutinizer shrugs		23:52
sECuRE	this url? http://maemoarena.com/2010/04/nokia-n900-pr1-2-expected-to-be-released-in-april-with-n900-honkong-release/	23:52
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woglinde	Note: We are also expecting release of Nokia N900 in India this month.	23:54
woglinde	lol	23:54
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GAN900	I hate Boxwave	23:56
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GAN900	They release screenprotectors for the N900 the week after I get a massive wear spot on my RX-51. . . .	23:57
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