IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-04-27

DocScrutinizerShadowJK: and there I'm lost :-/00:00
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summelwhere can i get an sdk with the current version of qt libs?00:02
pupniki think you download em00:03
summelno the qt in the sdk is newer then the qt on n90000:03
summelso my application does not run on the device only in the sdk :(00:03
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dottedmagIs there way to install 1.1 SDK?00:07
summeli hope so :(00:07
* dottedmag should have back up /scratchbox from the last time00:08
dottedmagoh well00:08
* DocScrutinizer feels headache coming, and heads out for a large beer00:09
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lbtX-Fade: making a xen image FYI00:10
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summelor can i dongrade the qt packages from the sdk somehow?00:11
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asjdottedmag: I thought I saw some instructions titled something like "how to compile for devices on pr1.1 with the SDK"00:15
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summelasj: where where where? :d00:15
asjdottedmag: you'll have to google for it though, it was a blog post a week or two ago00:15
dottedmagasj: manual dpkg-shlibdeps override?00:16
PhonicUKHey all :)00:16
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DocScrutinizeranybody can tell me if kernel is compiled with CONFIG_USB_MUSB_OTG and/or CONFIG_USB_MUSB_HDRC_HCD ?00:17
asjdottedmag: just saw the headline, didn't read it.  couldn't be something like apt-get install libqt =4.5.3 or what ever the syntax/packages are...00:17
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dottedmagwell, hope they still have the packages in repo.00:17
asjDocScrutinizer: if you get OTG working, and find proper OTG cables that work let me know :)00:18
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DocScrutinizeryou bet you'll hear about it00:18
asjDocScrutinizer: we've found otg cables, but they were not wired right00:18
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DocScrutinizerOTG won't work with N90000:19
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asjDocScrutinizer: this wasnt an n900 actually00:19
DocScrutinizerwrong connector (B-type, instead of AB)00:19
DocScrutinizeronly chance is to force USB into host mode via software (echo foo > /sys/bar)00:20
DocScrutinizerthat's not OTG though00:20
asjno one does it, so it's a pita from what I can tell00:20
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* DocScrutinizer NEEEDS a BEEER00:21
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PhonicUKcan /var/lib/apt go in MyDocs?00:21
DocScrutinizerreading USB or tty kernel sources always gives my bad headache00:22
DocScrutinizerPhonicUK: prolly00:22
asjPhonicUK: I've tried it and can't recommend it00:22
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PhonicUKhow comeasj?00:22
PhonicUK*come asj?00:22
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asjPhonicUK: I'm trying to remember...during upgrade I think at one point it unmounted everything...I remember fixing things by hand half way through00:24
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MohammadAGnight everyone00:24
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asjPhonicUK: it was fixable though via usb it wasn't horrible...00:25
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asjor terminal or something00:25
DocScrutinizerasj: system upgrade is a different thing, yes00:25
Mace_N900seriously.. if i knew the n900 was going to be this awesome i would have bought one right when it came out00:26
Mace_N900it is beyond great00:26
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* PhonicUK <3 his N900 too :)00:28
PhonicUKdeveloping for it is fun too ^_^00:28
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SpeedEvilMace_N900: I agree.00:30
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Mace_N900i held off because of the touchbook00:31
Mace_N900i had to make sure it didnt suck00:31
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SpeedEvillooking good for 3 days on wifi - which is nice.00:31
PhonicUKhas anyone played Q2 on their N900?00:31
* SpeedEvil is doing rundown test on wifi ATM00:31
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noobmonk3yKhertan, where does the app manager read the icon from? my healthcheck icon has turned into a blue square again :|00:32
SmokeyDcool! i got my new nokia n900 running xchat00:32
MacerSpeedEvil: yeah. the battery life is amazing00:32
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SpeedEvilSmokeyD: xchat is nice00:32
SpeedEvilI only have 10 small issues with it.00:32
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Macer10 small issues? heh00:32
* PhonicUK uses irssi over ssh :D00:32
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Macerssh kind of sucks when you don't have good reception over 3G00:33
Macerxchat is better for the latency00:33
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PhonicN900Macer, I mean that im ssh'ing *into* my N900 :P00:33
PhonicN900from another machine00:33
Maceryeah i guess that works too00:33
summelPhonicN900: developing is a nightmare for me atm :(00:33
Macernow that i think about it.. does the n900 have screen? :)00:33
PhonicN900summel, how come?00:34
PhonicN900eeh 1 mo ill check00:34
chem|stMacer: sure00:34
SpeedEvilMacer: when the largest of them is pretty much 'the scrollbar is the wrong colour' - yes - I'd say minor00:34
PhonicN900Package screen is not available, but is referred to by another package.00:34
Macerchem|st: i didn't thin kabout it00:34
summelPhonicN900: the sdk has a newer qt (general pr1.2) then is availeable on the device itself, so i cant run my qt apps on my n900 :(00:34
SpeedEvilscreen is in the tools repo00:34
Macerthere's a tools repo?!00:34
Maceri'm still using the stock repos00:34
PhonicN900summel, Windows or Linux host?00:34
Macerwhat's up with koffice00:34
PhonicN900I'm using MADDE + Qt Creator00:35
Macersomeone showed me a youtube thing about it00:35
Macerit looks great00:35
PhonicN900which works awesome for developing Qt apps00:35
Maceri need to dig up my damn su8w00:35
summelthe qt app itself works... it also works in the sdk...00:35
summelbut on the device i only get symbol lookup errors :(00:35
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asjsummel: I'm guessing it wasn't supposed to be a problem for this long, so let's hope it's fixed sooner than later00:36
haltdef_any reason the n900 wouldn't charge from one of those portable battery packs?00:36
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summelasj: i hope so -_-00:37
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chem|sthaltdef_: I couldnt get mine charging on a bare usb powersupply and on a car usb powerhost00:37
summelthats the only app i need to make the n900 a general laptop replacement for me :o00:37
SpeedEvilchem|st: that's as the D+ and D- are not shorted - it's not a recent app00:37
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SpeedEvilchem|st: recent charger00:37
PhonicUKMacer, update your SDK sysroot using files from the device?00:38
SmokeyDis there a way to mount sshfs in maemo?00:38
PhonicUKeeh, not macer - summel00:38
chem|stSpeedEvil: so I need an adaptor to shorten D+-?00:38
SpeedEvilchem|st: or hack the PSU00:39
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: after a lot of (half)educated guessing and handwaving, I'd say we have a kernel that's built without CONFIG_USB_MUSB_HDRC_HCD and is using , where in line 86 we need a patch to tell (free-)BME to switch bq24150 to boostmode00:39
chem|stwell one is about 6 month old and the other a few weeks...00:39
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: shiny00:40
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: what's 'shiny' meaning?00:40
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: isn't that simply the 5vusb gen thogh?00:40
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DocScrutinizererr, please elaborate00:40
DocScrutinizer(sorry, my headache)00:40
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SpeedEvilerr - great00:41
* noobmonk3y is happy n relaxed00:41
noobmonk3yhealthcheck is back up and working again!00:42
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: bq24150 would supply VBUS-5V. The logical hostmode should be handled by musb_hdrc_hcd if enabled at compile time - AIUI00:42
SmokeyDis there a way to copy-paste text from my browser to another app?00:42
t-tandefault kernel config: CONFIG_USB_MUSB_HDRC=y00:43
DocScrutinizerswipe from left into screen00:43
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DocScrutinizert-tan: darn - so much for my handwaving :-/00:43
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t-tanand CONFIG_USB_MUSB_OTG=y00:45
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DocScrutinizerwell, any idea why a "echo host >/sys/bus/pl*/devices/musb_hdrc/mode" doesn't do *anything* not even in dmesg?00:46
t-tanmany poor souls have already read all kernels sources trying to find a secret line to enable USB host...00:46
DocScrutinizerI'm rather sure there's no magic line to enable it, I rathe guess there's some lines missing or wrong00:47
t-tanit is more likely to find a driver for intergalactic Wifi00:48
jaskahave they tried burning incense in a sacred nokia rubber boot?00:48
DocScrutinizerc'mon we have an idea how it *should* work - no?00:48
DocScrutinizerso we probably could find the locations where things start to fail00:49
* noobmonk3y slaps frals around a bit with a dolphin....00:49
DocScrutinizer*NO* OTG, just a very simple switchover to hostmode, like on every stupic x86 desktop00:50
ShadowJKdoes it work even on reference omap3 boards I wonder :-)00:50
DocScrutinizerif that means we need to nuke the musb_hdrc kernel driver and instead of that load a ohci or whatever - fine, be it.00:51
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DocScrutinizerthere's adriver talking to 1704 PHY to do gadget00:52
DocScrutinizerwe really just want to change the logical protocol first instance00:52
DocScrutinizerthat can't be a mission impossible00:52
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DocScrutinizermusb looks really really ugly, see the long comment about what doesn't work, at top of
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DocScrutinizerso maybe we should completely nuke this shit, and go back to proven good drivers - I seem to remember on diablo/N810 we had no musb_wnkr00:55
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DocScrutinizer49  * NOTE:  the original Mentor code here was pretty much a collection00:56
DocScrutinizer50  * of mechanisms that don't seem to have been fully integrated/working00:56
DocScrutinizer51  * for *any* Linux kernel version.  This version aims at Linux,00:56
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DocScrutinizerOTG support is 40  * in the works.00:57
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t-tanaccording to it's definitely also a hardware issue. you need workaround poorly designed HW00:59
t-tandid you check the Driod sources?00:59
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SpeedEvilt-tan: Forcing the ID pin is irrelevant00:59
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SpeedEvilt-tan: The ID pin is only hooked up to the CPU to tell the software what mode the pin is in.01:00
SpeedEvilt-tan: the CPU then configures the USB chip appropriately01:00
pupnikdo android phones have an upgrade path to maemo? :)01:00
DocScrutinizert-tan: see ff01:00
pupnikyou figure since they have a linux kernel, the drivers ae out there...01:00
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t-tanI still believe that a manual switch to host mode is possible but I don't believe it's just setting one register or so01:02
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: t-tan: sorry, I really need my beer and Aspirin now. BBl01:03
t-tanhappy hostmode dreams! :)01:03
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Maceri'm watching elizabeth the golden age01:05
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Macerit's like watching the tudors with a queen01:05
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: could you please drop me the link to your bq27200 script again?01:09
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* PhonicUK misses pushd and popd01:11
* d14 has finished metal slug2 x)01:11
PhonicUKmaybe i could write a handful of scripts that emulate their function01:11
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you're asleep?01:12
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: yes01:12
DocScrutinizeraah, k01:12
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SpeedEvilThough I'm now looking at the bq27x00_battery driver01:15
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tremnite all, sweet dreams01:17
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crashanddieBTW, if any of you get to see "Don't tell my mother that I'm in North Korea" -- watch. Definitely an excellent show, it's amazing the amount of stuff they were allowed to film, and how many american products are available in specific supermarkets01:28
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crashanddieAlso amazing, the fact that people are so hungry that they're using the gardens around their buildings to grow food, there are no petrol stations 50km from Pyong Yang (well, nearly), and electricity goes out every 3 hours -- very good documentary01:30
PhonicUKnn everyone01:30
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Ken-YoungLucky North Korean astronomers!01:31
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Macerhm. i didn't even think about it but01:49
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Maceris there an app that works with gtalk video and the phone's front cam?01:49
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: what's been the tale about bme - when killed or simplz sigstopped?01:49
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DocScrutinizer51there' been a kezmapper app somebodz told? anz idae bout thename?01:51
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Disconnectwow and he's normally sow ... intelligible.01:54
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Maceri guess it's just supposed to work huh?01:56
Maceri need to find someone to try to video chat with01:56
lbtnight all01:57
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: ukbd - nah. this pkg provides additional osk lazouts for arabic, klingon, ferengi...01:58
chem|stMacer: what client?01:58
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Macerthose crazy spaniards02:02
Macerchem|st: never mind02:03
Maceri guess you can do it with telepathy02:03
Maceri need to test it out :)02:03
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Macerthose damn spaniards02:10
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zgoldbergX-Fade: ping02:29
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crashanddiesup all03:05
crashanddieStskeeps: last night, as i lay in bed (I know this is starting to sound pretty creepy), I had a very important question to ask you.03:06
crashanddieI know johnx came into the whole thing, it was more of an idea to submit to you03:06
crashanddieAnd that choice of words is even worse03:06
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crashanddieHowever, this morning I was unable to remember a single thing.03:06
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* SpeedEvil puts away his flashy pen, in the knowledge of a job well done.03:22
ds3you've put a pen inside a uSD?03:22
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* SpeedEvil points at crashanddie.03:23
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lcukcrashanddie, you were thinking of johnxs' wii03:24
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Mace_N900batterygraph is qt03:29
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pupnik_has anyone tried checking-in to a flight with a boarding pass displayed as 2Sd barcode on tablet/n900?03:36
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ptlpuphome: I didn't, but I tried mbarcode with 2D barcodes on my taxes and it did not recognize them.03:41
puphomeim gonna try tomorrow03:42
puphomei heard a finnish company sends 2d barcodes to cellphones for concert tickets03:42
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: don't forget to put your sunglasses on03:43
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* crashanddie points at SpeedEvil03:46
crashanddielcuk: he wii03:46
crashanddieerhm, lemme try that again03:46
crashanddielcuk: his wii?03:46
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Termanagood morning03:48
crashanddiemorning Termana, how are you today/03:49
TermanaDoing alright thanks crashanddie, how about yourself?03:49
crashanddiepretty good, back at work after the long weekend03:50
TermanaI've never asked - what is your job? (Besides part time IRC nazi :P lol)03:51
DocScrutinizerfull time doorkeeper03:52
summelwho else just lost the game? :)03:52
DocScrutinizerthe keykeeper03:53
crashanddieTermana: I'm leaving this job on Friday :)03:53
crashanddieTermana: I'm a security expert for banks and governments03:54
summelDocScrutinizer: gatekeeper and keymaster?03:54
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DocScrutinizerprolly, yes03:54
Termanacrashanddie: Ah ok, relatively nice job I assume. Why are you leaving your current workplace though?03:54
crashanddieBecause Australia isn't really working out for me03:55
crashanddieMy job in London was amazing, this one is pretty meh, so I'm moving back to France03:55
tgalalis it possible to launch media player to play a video from terminal ??03:55
TermanaEh, I didn't even know you were here in australia - what state are you in currently?03:56
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pupnik_tgalal: mplayer works good for that03:56
tgalalpupnik_, mplayer is available for maemo 5?03:56
DocScrutinizertgalal: and there's been a thread on tmo, about how to achieve this for mediaplayer by a dbus call03:57
SpeedEvilmplayer may be slower or jerkier for some content, as it's not GPU accellerated03:57
tgalalso it's not possible with the stock mediaplayer03:58
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SpeedEvilit must be - zoutube does it04:00
tgalalDocScrutinizer thanks !04:00
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pupnik_~scoobysnack DocScrutinizer04:03
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tgalalI want to cancel a yellow notification that requires clicking screen to hide.. but using shell command.04:18
tgalaldbus does that too?04:18
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crashanddieTermana: QLD04:35
crashanddietgalal: dbus-send /com/nokia/mediaplayer string:"file:///$1"04:36
tgalalcrashanddie, yeah got it, thanks a lot04:37
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tgalalok now I need to send a fake screen tap04:44
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luke-jrslightly off-topic here, but not sure where a better place to ask is: if I need a dirt cheap cell phone and service, what would you guys suggest?04:47
crashanddiegoogle seems to be working pretty well04:47
crashanddieluke-jr: country might be important04:48
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tgalalcrashanddie, I'm already googling.. But I was only searching on how to do it via dbus. thanks alot04:49
crashanddietgalal: I'm afraid DBUS won't allow for this04:49
luke-jrcrashanddie: when has Google ever worked for service deals?04:49
crashanddieluke-jr: wasn't aimed at you04:49
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crashanddieluke-jr: can't help for the US though05:07
crashanddieluke-jr: can't you just walk in a shop and get a $20 phone with $10 credit?05:07
crashanddieluke-jr: that's what I usually do when I land in a new country05:07
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ds3if you can find a $20 no contract phone...05:12
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crashanddiefound it in the UK, Australia, France, Belgium, Italy, Germany, and Ukraine05:12
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crashanddiethey're usually very low-end sagem or what have you05:13
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crashanddiethe battery lasts just enough to use up the credit when calling international05:13
crashanddieand then you just throw it away05:13
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ds3overhear some carriers want $25 for the SIM!05:13
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ds3overheard or overhead?05:14
luke-jrcrashanddie: I doubt it05:15
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ds3it is $25 to buy the sim and you have to put credits on it05:19
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crashanddieluke-jr: t-mobile nokia 1661 prepaid = $19.99 + $10 recharge = $29.9905:40
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pupnik_the last time my hard drive was completely organized was 199105:46
crashanddiepupnik_: when it was empty?05:48
luke-jrcrashanddie: huh?05:48
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luke-jryeah, low up-front, but really expensive per-minute05:49
crashanddiewell that gives you 30 minutes of credit05:49
luke-jr33 cents per05:49
crashanddieso 33c per minute05:49
luke-jrlooking at Boost Mobile... only 10c ea05:49
crashanddieWell, we all know US networks suck anymore :P Don't go there05:49
pupnik_about 200MB of files05:50
luke-jrI'm thinking grab a $10 iDEN phone off ebay and use Boost...05:50
pupnik_we need scorched3d on n90005:51
luke-jrthere, I bid on a decent-sounding used phone... XD05:51
luke-jrif I'm lucky I can tether it to my N81005:51
rm_youwhy you need a new phone? :P05:51
rm_youn900 break?05:52
luke-jrrm_you: I never had a N90005:52
rm_youaww :(05:52
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luke-jrand it's not worth more than $200 to me05:52
luke-jranyhow, I just need a cheap phone+service for my wife05:52
rm_youi'm stuck with G1 now :/05:52
luke-jrif I can pair it with my N810, that's just a nice bonus05:52
rm_youit's ok, but slow and the screen is comparatively a joke05:52
pupnik_lower res?05:53
GeneralAntillesrm_you, so sad for you.05:54
GeneralAntillesrm_you, if the Nexus One sucks as much as I've found it does, I can't imagine how bad the G1 is. :P05:54
rm_youpupnik_: yeah much05:54
rm_youbrowsing the internet on it is...05:54
rm_youalso a joke05:54
rm_youwhatever you want from the internet, better hope theres an app for it05:55
rm_youwikipedia: app05:55
rm_youfacebook: app05:55
rm_youimdb: app05:55
rm_youit runs facebook mobile *decent* but is very sad really05:55
rm_youspoiled on n900 :(05:56
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GeneralAntillesNexus One is nigh unusable05:57
GeneralAntillesI dunno why people seem to love it.05:57
rm_youwhat's unusable about it in particular?05:59
rm_youweb browsing slow?05:59
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GeneralAntillesWell, the whole Android thing is a bugger06:00
GeneralAntillesBut the hardware isn't great06:00
GeneralAntillesOLED, in particular, makes any extended text viewing impossible for me.06:00
GeneralAntillesSo, FBReader is right out.06:00
GeneralAntillesCapacitive makes me want to break things.06:00
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pupnik_why is oled problematic?06:01
pupnik_for viewing?  hi btw GeneralAntilles06:02
GeneralAntillespupnik_, the pixels seem to be non-square06:02
GeneralAntillesOr at least they have the appearance of that06:02
GeneralAntillesWhich makes font edges really ugly06:02
GeneralAntillesEven at high PPI.06:02
pupnik_they do look more pixelated iirc06:03
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GeneralAntillesIt's also super oversaturated06:04
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GeneralAntillesYou think orange makes your eyes bleed on a desktop LCD06:04
GeneralAntillesJust wait until you see it on the Nexus One!06:04
pupnik_saturation we can fix with X06:05
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pupnik_i think06:05
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crashanddiehey z4chh, howzit going?07:09
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crashanddieand there goes tmo08:05
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Macerwhere is information on running koffice on the n900?08:12
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Maceri'm looking at the kde forums and well.. :)08:12
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Gh0stygood ... well morning for me :p08:15
Gh0styevening for most of you i guess? :)08:15
Macerseems the koffice project that is in progress is a viewer only08:15
timeless_mbpgoogle docs should work today :)08:16
Gh0stylol you want to run a full koffice on the n900? :o08:16
LuciusMareHeh, wow, what process takes 100% of cpu and drains the battery from "fully charged" to "can't even turn on" within an hour?08:16
LuciusMare*in offline mode*08:16
Gh0styanyone know if theres a solution around syncing with mail for exchange problems?08:16
Gh0styseems after a while my phone cant sync anymore with google calendar08:17
Gh0styand I dont seem to be the only one with the problem08:17
Gh0stysome say it's if you add things to the phones calendar that it does not want to sync anymore? :/08:17
Macertimeless_mbp: ugh08:18
Maceragain with the google docs :)08:18
Macerwhat if i don't want to use google?08:18
* Macer hides08:18
timeless_mbpMacer: hey, i work on one of the best mobile web browsers in the world08:18
* Macer checks his blinds08:18
timeless_mbpwell, you could try ms office for the web08:18
Macerwtf ever happened to quickoffice? it worked great on my n95 :)08:18
Maceralthough.. i wanted something that used opendoc format08:19
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RST38hLucius: Tracker?08:19
Maceri usually use openoffice08:19
Macerdoesn't easydebian come with openoffice? :)08:19
RST38hGh0sty: Have you considered using for finding an answer to your question?08:19
RST38hGh0sty: Or maybe searching for "exchange" at
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Maceri remember someone saying that you can get openoffice going .. but i'd rather have a portable koffice if it is better for the screen08:20
Gh0styRST38h: I did but found a lot of similar problems but not really a solution ... (yet)08:20
RST38hMacer: Koffice is kinda unusable on Maemo08:20
Macerbut it seems like they are only doing the viewer only thing.. why do i feel androided? :)08:20
RST38hMacer: too slow08:20
MacerRST38h: the native maemo ver they are working on?08:20
RST38hMacer: yea08:20
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Maceri've been looking around and it seems like it's a viewer only so far :)08:20
RST38hMacer: Apparently, it starts swapping and you know what happens next...08:21
Macerunless the forums i'm reading are old08:21
MacerRST38h: haha08:21
RST38hIt is a viewer, yes08:21
Macerthe phone crashes and starts to melt08:21
timeless_mbpbased on the pictures i've seen internally08:21
Macerand the included death ray stops working :)08:21
timeless_mbpi don't think it's going to always be a viewer08:21
RST38hMacer: Nah, it does not crash08:21
timeless_mbpbut making a viewer is a reasonable starting point08:21
timeless_mbpreducing scope is a good thin08:21
Macertimeless_mbp: yeah they say they are going to work on making it functional08:21
RST38hMacer: But it hangs the system hard, for dozens of seconds at a time08:21
Maceris abiword on a repo?08:21
RST38habiword is actually more usable08:22
Macerit's a little more lightweight08:22
Maceri need a word processor and cups on my phone :)08:22
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Macerbut then again. i'm sure most maemo apps wouldn't have cups support :/08:22
RST38hwho needs cups support...08:22
Maceri remember the only way to get it working on my n810 was to use pb kde 3.508:23
TriztRST38h; xprint instead?08:23
MacerRST38h: i do :-P08:23
crashanddieI'd say you need a real document viewer, but hardly a word processor08:23
Maceri want to print to my laser printer straight from my phone :)08:23
crashanddiebut then again, you already have a PDF viewer, which accounts for 90% of what people need to do on the go08:23
crashanddieIf you are serious about editing .doc files on the go, get a laptop.08:23
Macercrashanddie:  my n95 had bt printing08:23
Macerand quickoffice08:23
crashanddieAnd you can get BT to USB converters08:24
Maceri typed an entire term paper using my su8w (hung over) in like an hour08:24
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Macerplus... i'd rather carry a laptop in my pocket instead of in a bag ;)08:24
crashanddieMacer: I think that really is an exception rather than the rule08:24
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Gh0stymost threads say like syncing works for a while and then stops working but no realy answers to why or how :(08:24
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Macercrashanddie: yeah but.. why bother carrying around a netbook when you don't have to?08:25
crashanddieGh0sty: because MfE is broken08:25
Gh0sty(and it does not look google calendar specific)08:25
Maceri never understood why this wasn't looked into more as far as "smartphones" go08:25
Macerthe elimination of the netbook :)08:25
crashanddieMacer: well, if you have to write documents, that qualifies as "have to"08:25
RST38hE70 has bt printing08:25
Gh0stycrashanddie: and anyone is looking into that? :/08:25
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crashanddieIt's already painful on a netbook08:25
crashanddieMacer: because writing a real document on a phone is a pain?08:25
Macercrashanddie: yeah it worked fine on my n95 .. i could see myself using it day to day08:25
crashanddieGh0sty: PR1.2 hopefully08:25
Macercrashanddie: not really08:25
crashanddieMacer: I seriously doubt that08:25
RST38hsome people love pain08:26
Maceri'm telling you.. on my n95 using quickoffice and my su8w it was fine08:26
crashanddieMacer: I had Doc2Go on my blackberry, and trust me, I would never want to use that really08:26
Maceryou need the bt folding pocket kb ;)08:26
Macermakes it way better08:26
Gh0styhm and thats coming out when? :P (as far as i understood from other threads i've been reading 1.2 is going to fix a lot of issues? )08:26
RST38hblackberry. eh. that is what I meant.08:26
Maceri'm not saying type whole docs using the phone kb08:26
RST38hGh0sty: Sometime between second coming of Jesus and Armageddon08:27
Triztdoes koffice/abiword support those standardized document formats used by default in openoffice?08:27
crashanddieGh0sty: what the communist said08:27
Gh0styPR1.2 will be released later in this week08:27
Macercrashanddie: i thought using my su8w and my n95 was great08:27
crashanddieGh0sty: you don't know that :)08:27
Gh0styis the last msg in the very large thread say? :p08:27
Gh0styor is that just someone making that up? :p08:28
Maceri thought using my su8w and koffice then printing with cups on my n810 was even better hehe08:28
crashanddieGh0sty: they've been announcing dates for months now. It's become a bit of a pr1.2-lotto08:28
Maceri was carrying around a netbook in my pocket :)08:28
crashanddiewhomever gets the date right gets a free cookie08:28
Gh0stywhere can we place bets ? :p08:28
Macerwell. pockets.. had an n810 in one and su8w in another08:28
Maceri think the portable printing office suite has been overlooked :)08:29
crashanddieit hasn't08:29
Macerespecially when you consider that maemo and the hardware can handle it08:29
crashanddieit's not even a niche08:29
crashanddiebecause there is no market08:29
Gh0sty Chuck Norris doesn't wait for PR1.2, he's already running Meego on his N1000.08:29
Gh0stylol :D08:29
Gh0styfunny thread :)08:29
Macercrashanddie: there is probably no market because you can't do it :)08:29
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Maceri bet if people started to show others that it could be done then it wouldn't be niche08:29
crashanddieit's a niche for the larvae that live in the niche of mobile computing08:30
Macercrashanddie: i disagree08:30
Macerthen again08:30
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Macerin teh beginning .. mp3 players were niche :-pP08:30
Macerit's ok.. we can wait for apple to do it on an iphone08:30
Macerand sell the folding iphone keyboard08:30
Macerand see how maemo dropped the ball when it had the chance08:30
Macerlike palm :)08:30
crashanddieexcept that mobile office has been tried multiple times08:30
crashanddiepalm did it, nokia did it, blackberry did it08:31
crashanddieand look where it is now? Nowhere.08:31
Macerno they didn't08:31
crashanddieMaybe it's like the tablet? We need Apple to launch iPrint for iPhone from iWorks08:31
Maceri'm telling you.. once apple realizes it .. iphones and ikeyboards will be flying off the shelves08:32
crashanddieand then iWill be iHappy and feel so much iJoy about iPrint for iPhone through iWorks that I'll get an iPad for my iLivingRoom08:32
Macerand all those macbooks will be replaced with iphones that can use office suites and print al in one :)08:32
crashanddiebut until then, it's iFail, and utterly iUseless, and iMNotGoingToHappen08:32
Macerthey'll make sure there's a huge apple symbol on the cradle that holds the iphone.. hell.. why not use it as a supplement battery as well :)08:32
Macercrashanddie: alrighty  :) we'll see08:33
crashanddieMacer: macbooks are seriously good computers08:33
Macerthey are also large08:33
crashanddieI'm just waiting for Microsoft to release a new version of Office for Mac and I'll be happy -- the old version is becoming quite dated08:34
Macerand require a bag to carry08:34
crashanddieWell, 13" isn't that big08:34
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Macerlarge enough08:34
crashanddieI always have a courier bag for my cameras anyway08:34
crashanddieMost, if not all business people always have a bag with them too08:34
crashanddieIf they don't need a bag, they don't need to edit documents -- there is no usecase08:35
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Macerwell.. personally.. i'd rather go to class with pdf scans of my text books.. and able to bust out a folding keyboard and phone with an office suite.. type whatever i need while using the pdfs as books and print it on the networked univ printers08:35
Macerand all i need to do that.. is cups ... and an office suite08:35
Macerthe rest is already in place :)08:35
crashanddieEither you go to a customer for a long period of time warranting the need to edit documents on the go, and then you just take your laptop with you. Or you go lightweight, and the only thing you need is email on your blackberry and taking notes using pen and paper08:35
Macerand if you can run kde + cups + koffice on an n81008:35
timeless_mbpMacer: google has a net print solution for you :)08:36
Macerthen on an n900 it should be rather easy :)08:36
Macertimeless_mbp: haha.. screw google :)08:36
crashanddieBut I can assure you that you can't take notes fast enough in front of a customer, using the N900, so there is no business case08:36
* Macer looks for the black trucks08:36
crashanddieplus you look utterly unprofessional when you do so (face pressed into your keyboard, your tongue sticking out because you're concentrating on getting the right keys)08:36
Macercrashanddie: hey. all i know is that in school all i needed was my n95 and my su8w08:37
crashanddieWhereas with a laptop, your arms are relaxed, your posture looks good, you can look at the customer, smile and look pretty while touch typing08:37
crashanddiewell, wait until you get out of school and start doing real work08:37
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Macercrashanddie: i am out of school and doing real work08:37
Macerand want to use my n900 and my su8w08:37
crashanddieWhat do you do, exactly?08:38
MacerIT stuff.. contracted server and client configs usually :)08:38
timeless_mbpMacer: but i like google!08:38
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crashanddieyeah, you're not a business user mate08:38
crashanddieyou're IT, which means you want a gadget08:39
crashanddieso don't pretend to acknowledge the needs of business ;)08:39
Macertimeless_mbp: i actually set up a local zimbra server just to avoid using google ;)08:39
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crashanddieYou don't need to print. You can get slashdot on your n900, and you should be printing your servers/software doco before you leave your desk08:39
Macercrashanddie: i do the contracting myself.. i'm self employed / employer with over 20 high paying clients08:39
timeless_mbpwhat a waste of resources!08:39
Macertrust me i do plenty of "business"08:39
Stskeepscrashanddie: what question?08:40
crashanddieif you're too fat/lazy to back to your desk to print out some shit or take a laptop, or unorganised to actually think ahead, "not our problem"08:40
acidjazzbusiness in qoutes08:40
crashanddieStskeeps: eh?08:40
acidjazzdefinitely sexual favors08:40
crashanddieacidjazz: LMAO08:40
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Macerand yes. i want my gadget.. i want my records on an n900 and able to print them directly off the phone if i need them ... and type proposals out on my phone and folding bt keyboard that i simply have to pull out of my pocket :)08:41
Stskeepscrashanddie: ~5 hours ago you had an important question laying in bed or something08:41
Macerrealistically an n900 makes a netbook redundant08:41
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crashanddieStskeeps: yeah, can't remember  it08:41
crashanddieStskeeps: will come back to me whenever it needs to08:41
Macerand redundancy is the opposite of efficiency :)08:41
crashanddieStskeeps: if not, it means it wasn't important08:42
crashanddieMacer: it makes it redundant *for you*08:42
Maceranyways. my son won't go to sleep so i think i'm going to hit him over the head with something08:42
crashanddieand please note that I talk about laptop, not netbook08:42
Macercrashanddie: i would say the typical macbook is a "gadget" ;)08:42
crashanddieMacer: JD08:42
Maceror a netbook ;)08:42
crashanddieMacer: Jack Daniels08:42
crashanddieworks everytime08:42
Macerand doesn't leave marks?08:43
sulxjack daniels? serious?08:43
crashanddiewell, only after 20 years08:43
sulxthats just awful08:43
crashanddiesulx: that's why you give it to the kids08:43
Maceri would figure southern comfort would be easier08:43
Macerit's sweeter :)08:43
sulxso they won't think drinking never again...good idea08:43
crashanddiesod it, just go for absynth08:43
timeless_mbpStskeeps: ping08:43
crashanddiethey love playing with matches and having the sugar melt08:43
timeless_mbpwhere do i get a meego x86 rootfs?08:44
Macercrashanddie: hell no. then he'll be rolling around on the floor tripping08:44
timeless_mbpi just need something w/ a build toolchain08:44
timeless_mbpso i can use rpm08:44
Maceranyways. let me go force him to sleep08:44
timeless_mbp(or yum, i don't care)08:44
crashanddieMacer: I've hardly ever seen anyone trip due to absynth, that's more of a myth than anything else08:44
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: has links for a 'developer' image08:44
crashanddieMacer: take care08:44
Macercrashanddie: yeah. i've never had it tbh08:44
Stskeeps(doesn't boot, just for chroot)08:44
Macercrashanddie: i'm going to track down a way to get cups working on my n90008:44
Macerafter i choke my child to sleep08:45
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: if it does, i'm blind08:45
timeless_mbpplease help a poor blind man08:45
crashanddieheh... name for the new MeeGo device from nokia: nJoy08:45
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: Download MeeGo development images for MeeGo X86 and MeeGo ARM and bzip2 -d them (they are 3GB loopback images)08:45
Stskeepscrashanddie: MeeGo nJoy?08:46
timeless_mbp ?08:46
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: no, look at the links in that sentence08:46
crashanddieStskeeps: nJoy MeeGo?08:46
Stskeepscrashanddie: never!08:46
* timeless_mbp wonders how to loopback mount w/o being root08:47
crashanddieStskeeps: nJoy, iFarce and eCock. The 3 new devices from Nokia, Apple and Samsung, proudly supported by Microsoft.08:47
timeless_mbp 2% [>                                                                                 ] 3,005,730    300K/s  eta 8m 56s08:47
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: it's a ext3 filesystem, find some way to extract it i guess :P08:47
* Stskeeps goes get breakfast08:48
crashanddientmou <-- loopback mount without root08:48
crashanddientrootmou  <-- loopback mount with root08:48
crashanddieor otmountro08:48
crashanddieor tontmouro08:49
crashanddie~scramble mountroot08:49
timeless_mbpare these real?08:49
* timeless_mbp kicks crashanddie for messing with a blind guy08:50
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DocScrutinizer~seen arif_08:52
infobotarif_ <Arif@> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 23d 17h 57m 32s ago, saying: 'they're not exactly the same are they?'.08:52
* timeless_mbp sighs08:52
timeless_mbpfor a platform that pretends to believe in tools08:53
timeless_mbp*nix doesn't seem to believe in userspace08:53
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i never understood why chroot requires root08:53
timeless_mbpthere should be an extN to cpio app08:53
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: the problem is that *nix is stupid08:53
timeless_mbpand there's one file system for the entire computer08:54
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timeless_mbpinstead of one file system per user08:54
timeless_mbp(by file system, i mean the presentation starting from /)08:54
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timeless_mbpthus, if you can mount a file system which has an app marked suid08:54
timeless_mbpyou can run it and you're root08:54
timeless_mbpanyway, that's why 'mount' in the most basic form is a root priv08:54
timeless_mbp(there are other related issues)08:54
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timeless_mbpif i could hardlink 'su' into my chroot filesystem08:55
timeless_mbpand if 'su' looked at *my* /etc/passwd, instead of the system's /etc/passwd08:55
timeless_mbpthen i could become root by using 'su' :)08:55
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TermanaBesides the fact you have to be root to chroot08:56
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TermanaUnless I'm not understanding what your saying correctly :P08:57
timeless_mbpTermana: that's kinda a stupid explanation for:08:57
timeless_mbp<Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: i never understood why chroot requires root08:57
timeless_mbp'you have to be root to chroot because chroot requires root'08:57
timeless_mbpno really?08:57
TermanaOh i see :P Nevermind me heh08:57
timeless_mbpStskeeps: perhaps a better example08:58
timeless_mbproot user mounts a cdrom with a live cd08:58
Stskeepsyeah, i see the flaws :P08:58
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timeless_mbpclever user knows the password from the live cd :)08:58
CorsacStskeeps: chroot(2) requires CAP_SYS_CHROOT08:59
Corsacwhich is usually available to root08:59
Corsac(on Linux)08:59
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timeless_mbpCorsac: that doesn't answer the question08:59
timeless_mbpnone of this justifies not being able to convert a file system into a cpio archive08:59
StskeepsCorsac: my question was -why-08:59
timeless_mbp(w/o 'mount')08:59
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CorsacI only answered to “why does chroot requires root” in fact, I didn't scroll up more in the backlog, sorry :)09:00
timeless_mbpCorsac: given that Termana already got slapped w/in the last screen]09:00
timeless_mbpyou deserve a double trouting09:00
Termanashh timeless_mbp :P I thought you were planning to try doing what you descibed which is why I said what I said :P09:01
timeless_mbpTermana: do what?09:01
Corsactimeless_mbp: I love trout at breakfast09:01
timeless_mbpi still have a problem09:01
* timeless_mbp slaps Corsac with a rotting trout09:01
* timeless_mbp slaps Corsac with an infected trout09:01
* timeless_mbp quickly discards both in the helsinki water system09:02
timeless_mbp(no one will notice!)09:02
Termanatimeless_mbp: The whole try to become root by symlinking su to a chrooted system. Which is why I said - "besides the fact you need root to do chroot"09:02
timeless_mbpTermana: you should have said that you can't hardlink w/o su :)09:03
timeless_mbpbesides, my livecd example is better09:03
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: btw, rpm has a --install-root setting, so you can download it from your normal distribution09:04
timeless_mbpStskeeps: afaict it doesn't work09:04
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timeless_mbpit still requires you to be root09:05
timeless_mbpRPM version
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: maybe we should step back and ask what your use case is09:05
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timeless_mbp1. i'm *NOT* root09:05
timeless_mbp2. i want to xref meego09:05
timeless_mbp3. see 109:05
CorsacI don't even have a --install-root on rpm ¬¬09:05
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Stskeepsrpm2cpio X | cpio id09:05
Stskeepsrpm2cpio X | cpio -id09:05
Stskeeps(extract a rpm package)09:06
timeless_mbp4. i do not have a complete build environment09:06
timeless_mbp5. i do not have 'xz'09:06
Stskeepswhat distribution are you on?09:06
timeless_mbp5 is the current problem, as various rpm's use it for their sources09:06
timeless_mbpCentOS release 5.4 (Final)09:06
Corsachmhm, can't you build/install xz from source and put it in a local path? (I know it's a bit ugly, but…)09:06
timeless_mbpStskeeps: i've already used rpmbuild09:06
Termana6. Use a decent distro and you'll be fine09:06
timeless_mbpTermana: see 1?09:07
timeless_mbp(heck, see 3?)09:07
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: then why are you running it on a machine you don't have root on? :P09:07
TermanaYeah, but did YOU see 6?09:07
Stskeeps(one more step back..)09:07
CorsacStskeeps: see 3, I guess ;p09:07
timeless_mbpwhy the ****09:07
timeless_mbpshould i have to be root?09:07
timeless_mbpi'm a user09:07
timeless_mbpi want to index cr*p09:07
Corsactimeless_mbp: and there's no way you could ask an admin to install xz for you?09:07
timeless_mbpwhat part of that requires root09:07
Stskeepswell, because your local admin isn't doing his job and providing you the tools you need09:07
timeless_mbpCorsac: i'd have to find the admin09:08
timeless_mbpwhich is difficult09:08
Corsactimeless_mbp: afaiui, the only part requiring root is the xz part09:08
timeless_mbpplus, imagine a box w/ 1000 users09:08
Termanatimeless_mbp: Why not boot from a livecd?09:08
timeless_mbpTermana: the box is in a cloud09:08
timeless_mbpwhere the **** do you expect me to ...09:08
timeless_mbpsee 309:08
timeless_mbpsee 109:08
Termanatimeless_mbp: why not use a local machine09:08
timeless_mbphrm, because my mac doesn't have enough ram?09:08
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: calm down, it isn't our fault that you have a setup that isn't set up for the purpose you have09:08
timeless_mbpor power09:08
Corsactimeless_mbp: or maybe you can do the extract part on another box where xz is installed, but that would mean a lot of network traffic if you want to do that regularly09:08
timeless_mbpCorsac: i do09:09
timeless_mbpthe goal of an indexer is to index things09:09
timeless_mbpas regularly as necessary09:09
Corsachmmh, but09:09
timeless_mbppreferably in an *automated* fassion09:09
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: get a tar.gz of a fedora filesystem and use fakechroot09:09
timeless_mbpwithout constant admin interaction09:09
Corsaccurrently you “send” the rpms automagically ?09:09
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: why can't i convert this stupid ext3 into a tgz?09:09
Corsacthey are downloaded from the cloud machine?09:09
timeless_mbpCorsac: the cloud machine does all the work09:09
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: the second option is asking someone nice to make a tar.gz variant for you09:10
timeless_mbpit uses a script to calculate the rpm's to get09:10
timeless_mbpit downloads them09:10
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: which is very easy09:10
Termanaheh :P09:10
timeless_mbpStskeeps: could i please have a tgz?09:10
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: at the point the image was released, ext3 was the only option09:10
Corsacand a pony09:10
timeless_mbpi don't need the pony09:10
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: if i don't hear any moaning about not being root afterwards, yes :P09:10
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* Stskeeps goes start a build09:10
timeless_mbpbut if including a pony in the request then sure, i'll take the pony09:10
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timeless_mbps/then/makes it happen then/09:11
infobottimeless_mbp meant: but if including a pony in the request makes it happen then sure, i'll take the pony09:11
* timeless_mbp can always give the pony to someone else09:11
Mace_N900facebook uses jabber?09:11
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TermanaDENNNNNIIIED - you can't even get a box with root access, how can we trust you to look after a pony09:11
Mace_N900do they do s2s?09:11
Corsacdon't think so09:11
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timeless_mbpfwiw, i've already built sb2 in this box09:11
timeless_mbpwhich is why i'm at "i need a rootfs"09:11
Mace_N900what would the fb contact look like?09:12
Stskeepsdevel-ia32 OK, timeless_mbp?09:12
timeless_mbppresumably that's roughly what i already downloaded?09:12
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: roughly09:12
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CorsacMace_N900: various clients already allow you to “create” a facebook account09:12
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: if you did have root, generating such an image would be a matter of: [root@ideapad mic2]# mic-image-creator -f fs -c devel-ia32.ks09:13
Corsac(which is just a jabber account connecting to the correct server with the correct username) so you might want to look at them to see it09:13
Mace_N900i dont want one. but i want the s2s xmpp09:13
timeless_mbpyeah, but… see 1 :)09:13
Mace_N900to chat with fb people09:13
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: considering to buy a dedi might be useful :P09:13
timeless_mbpfwiw, i think gnomevfs and gio have claimed they'd "solve" this problem09:13
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CorsacMace_N900: I don't think it'll work but if you suceed, keep me posted :)09:13
timeless_mbpStskeeps: honestly, i don't want to admin a box09:13
Mace_N900haha. ok09:14
timeless_mbpi don't want to be responsible for security09:14
Mace_N900will do09:14
timeless_mbpor bandwidth09:14
Mace_N900i bet it works09:14
timeless_mbpor hardware maintenance09:14
CorsacI definitely agree timeless_mbp09:14
timeless_mbpi'm a *dev*, not an admin09:14
Mace_N900gtalk s2s works09:14
timeless_mbpi should not be able to screw up my host09:14
timeless_mbpnor should i be responsible for securing it09:14
Stskeepsyour case is a bit special, since you want to index, not develop09:14
timeless_mbparguably a dev shouldn't need to be root09:15
Corsacbut he should have an admin handy09:15
timeless_mbpthere's very little distinction between my use case and a dev's09:15
timeless_mbpCorsac: um09:15
timeless_mbpimagine 10,000 college students on a box09:15
timeless_mbpshould they have an admin 'handy'09:15
Stskeepsthat setup is actually kinda rare these days09:15
Corsactimeless_mbp: I used to work in an IT departement, btw09:15
timeless_mbpso they can all pester the admin for buggy tools?09:15
timeless_mbpStskeeps: it wasn't rare when i was in college09:15
Stskeepsour uni cluster was largely unused09:15
Stskeepsyes, but it wasn't in the times of fast laptops09:16
timeless_mbpStskeeps: our clusters were heavily used in 200209:16
Corsactimeless_mbp: usually the “handy admin” is nicely^Whandled with a request tracker or something09:16
timeless_mbpCorsac: i'd hope you'd reject most of the requests here09:16
timeless_mbp"i want to run mic-image-creator"09:16
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Corsacbut that's only because I'm a bofh09:16
Corsacnowadays it's not really processing power but electricy and bandwith which matter most09:17
timeless_mbp(mic does loopback mounts, and runs arbitrary code, often)09:17
timeless_mbpfor me, what matters is:09:17
timeless_mbpa. bandwidth09:17
timeless_mbpb. ram09:17
Corsactimeless_mbp: but I would have accepted to install xz, maybe09:17
timeless_mbpCorsac: i'd get tired of bugging you each week that another stupid package requires another stupid tool09:17
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timeless_mbpi can build xz myself09:17
timeless_mbpafter all, i've already built auto* and a few others09:17
Stskeepswhy didn't you build rpm then?09:18
timeless_mbpi have rpm!09:18
timeless_mbpit's a centos box!09:18
Stskeepsnot one with xz support09:18
Stskeeps(it looks like)09:18
timeless_mbpbut afaict rpm doesn't do the xz09:18
timeless_mbpit contracts out to 'xz'09:18
Stskeepsyes it does09:18
Stskeepswell, it needs a setup09:18
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Mace_N900tell the admin to make you a centos zone in opensolarus09:18
Corsacxz is lzma, isn't it?09:18
Corsacok, anyway I'm kind of sure that's not timeless_mbp09:19
Corsacso let's get back to ponies09:19
crashanddieOMG PONIES09:19
Corsac/_mbp/_mbp's point/ btw09:19
Shapeshifteruhm, is the advanced geocaching tool supposed to show anything other then the map? i made an account and put it into the options. but if I go to search geocaches the list is empty no matter if or what I type in.09:20
Mace_N900im pretty sure there is a zone for rhel/centos09:20
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: 219/226 on the image and then i'm uploading09:20
Corsactimeless_mbp: anyway, isn't there a meego/maemo/... community-administred server which would help in your case? (though it wouldn't fix the parts where you need admin rights which you don't want)09:20
timeless_mbp /var/tmp/rpm-tmp.91621:/bin/gzip -dc '/data/' | tar -xf -09:20
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timeless_mbpCorsac: doubtful09:20
timeless_mbpand i don't want to have to bother them constantly either09:21
timeless_mbpit's generally easier for me to run mxr on a box which isn't managed by a network starved system09:21
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timeless_mbpcomparing reliability of w/ *.maemo.org09:21
timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure worked better09:21 is dreamhost09:21 is e209:21
Corsacmaego ?09:21
timeless_mbpmoego is a staging name09:22
timeless_mbpi'm supposed to get a cname for mxr.meego.com09:22
timeless_mbpbut i can't remember the person i need to talk to about it09:22
Corsacthe admin (tm)09:23
Corsacthe Almighty Administrator09:23
Mace_N900cape and tights?09:23
Corsactimeless_mbp: so in the end, what you say is that it's easier to work on .deb than on .rpm?09:23
* Corsac runs09:23
Stskeepswell, deb is ar x09:23
Shapeshiftermoe? heh09:23
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CorsacStskeeps: usually you tar xf the data.tar.gz at one point ;p09:24
Corsac(or you dpkg --extract if you have dpkg)09:24
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timeless_mbpCorsac: not really09:24
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: ~20 mins09:24
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timeless_mbpin theory rpm is going to give me a better source index09:24
Corsac(and dpkg is supposed to be able to use bz2/lzma at one point)09:24
timeless_mbpw/ debs, i had no way of knowing how to apply patches09:24
timeless_mbpin theory rpmbuild will guarantee patch application09:24
Corsacwell, I think it's already read, the infrastructure is not :)09:24
timeless_mbpwhereas w/ apt 'forget about it'09:24
timeless_mbpand deb is adding some new quilt formats09:25
timeless_mbpwhich is roughly equivalent to rpm adding xz09:25
k9how can i used my 2nd cam on my N900?09:25
Corsacyes, new sources format would have helped for the patches, in that case09:25
timeless_mbpthe rpm bit itself is actually trivial, it's the contained crud that's painful09:25
crashanddiek9: I heard that only the pre-production devices had the camera working09:25
timeless_mbpdeb is the same, the deb bit itself is trivial09:25
Corsacwell, it's just because they added compression formats too, which are used in meego09:25
crashanddiek9: however, having a pre-prod device, I never got it working09:26
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Corsacold rpms used gz or bz2 I guess?09:26
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timeless_mbpand some used something else09:26
ag0nyGood morning09:26
CorsacI guess it's another lzma based one09:26
crashanddiek9: try the mirror app09:27
Mace_N900with the kind of use i put on my n900... my G1 would have lasted an hour09:27
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k9crashanddie: tnx men....and also is there a feature where i can put a timer on my camera?09:29
timeless_mbpfwiw, building 'xz' requires 'autopoint'09:30
timeless_mbpwhich is a tool i've never heard of09:30
Corsachmmh, it's in cvs iirc09:30
crashanddiek9: also, apparently it works if you do a gtalk call from computer to N90009:30
k9crashanddie: a selftimer feature would be a great apps09:30
crashanddiek9: however, the remote computer only works if made from Windows (apparently). I never got it work from OSX09:30
Corsacmhmh, not cvs :)09:30
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Corsacbut it does depend on cvs here09:30
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CorsacDescription: The autopoint program from GNU gettext09:31
crashanddiek9: what do you mean?09:31
timeless_mbpwell, that was an obvious package!09:31
crashanddiek9: an app that takes pictures on the front-facing camera every x seconds?09:31
Corsactimeless_mbp: iirc it was split recently from the cvs package09:32
Corsac(in debian I mean)09:32
k9crashanddie: in the back camera i mean, is there a feature a selftimer for the camera09:32
Corsacthat's why nobody knows it, too09:32
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crashanddiek9: not as far as I'm aware09:32
Corsacmirror seems to works fine here09:32
timeless_mbpto be fair, the rpm has a proper dependency to gettext09:33
Corsacthere's a strange looking guy in it, at least09:33
Corsache doesn't seem too awake09:33
timeless_mbpalthough, i question the dependency to cvs given that it has a dependency to gettext09:33
k9crashanddie: i hope you guys develop such feature for it....N900 rules!09:33
Corsacand he has a trout on the head09:33
Mace_N900nokia must have a different idea about what an alarm to wake up is09:33
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timeless_mbpMace_N900: eh?09:33
Mace_N900their alarm tones would put me into REM09:33
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timeless_mbpMace_N900: if you aren't using my strings, you're in trouble :)09:33
crashanddietimeless_mbp: not strong enough09:34
Mace_N900their alarm tones are.... soothing09:34
* timeless_mbp goes to update the l10n packages09:34
Mace_N900alarms are meant to be discomforting09:34
sECuREthe ringtones too09:34
Corsactimeless_mbp: if that can help you09:34
Mace_N900ring tones i understand09:35
Corsac(sorry I only know about debian sources of information, which might not be helpful)09:35
crashanddieMace_N900: I'm using an alarm app on my mbp, because the N900 doesn't wake me up09:35
Mace_N900but alarms that put you to sleep?09:35
timeless_mbpCorsac: interesting09:35
crashanddieplus the app actually requires me to do math before it turns it off permanently,09:35
Mace_N900i just used an mp309:35
timeless_mbpit doesn't look like redhat has switched yet09:35
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crashanddie"16 * 4"09:35
XS3can some help me install the maemo 5 sdk?
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Corsactimeless_mbp: ok so looking at the readme file, the dependency in debian is just for transition09:36
Corsactimeless_mbp: because autopoint was provided in the cvs package before, or something (wtf?)09:36
timeless_mbpfwiw, the time it takes for me to build any one auto tool is prohibitively expensive09:37
XS3trying to install it on a fedora 12 x6509:37
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timeless_mbpwhich is one of the reasons i don't want to build a world on this box09:37
* k9 09:37
crashanddieXS3: specify the user you want to install to09:37
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XS3what do you mean,user?09:38
timeless_mbpheck, forget building, just running through 'configure' is incredibly slow09:38
crashanddieE: User 'None' not found with 'getent passwd None' command.09:38
XS3so how should i execute the python script?09:38
XS3or should i make changes to it?09:38
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* timeless_mbp sighs09:39
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timeless_mbpi'm also running a git->hg conversion09:39
timeless_mbpit's managed to process 28hrs of data in the last few hours09:39
k9crashanddie: so N900 cannot support video calls09:39
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timeless_mbpwhich is well… not wonderful, when you consider that it's sitting @july 23, 200909:39
timeless_mbpand we're somewhere in 201009:40
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crashanddiek9: not over 3G, but through GTalk it works (when computer initiates call)09:40
namusHow to continous backtrace using gdb ,09:40
timeless_mbpnamus: eh?09:40
timeless_mbpbt 1000009:40
timeless_mbp(w/ a terminal that has 10000 rows)09:41
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Corsacset logging on trouc.txt might help too :)09:42
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namustimeless_mbp,cant we get backtrace ,non-interactively , ie., backtrace to be diplayed along with UI flow09:42
timeless_mbpif your question can be written in a native language which someone here can speak, perhaps you should find a translator09:43
timeless_mbpbecause your question was garbled in your translation09:43
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timeless_mbpperhaps you should start over and describe what you're doing09:44
crashanddietimeless_mbp: do you speak swedish?09:44
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: no, but frals does :)09:44
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timeless_mbpdo you want a function call trace, so that you can see each function that's entered/exited while a program runs?09:45
timeless_mbpif so, dtrace or a competitor is what you want, not gdb09:45
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timeless_mbpif you have a core dump from which you want a stack trace, then, yes, gdb can take orders via a commandline argument09:46
crashanddienamus: timeless_mbp ar en skitstovel, bara forklara ditt problemme fulut09:46
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* crashanddie has no idea if that was even close to being correct09:46
crashanddiefrals: was that good?09:47
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: what makes you think namus speaks swedish? :)09:47
crashanddiebecause his ISP is swedish09:47
namusi want to see each function & each thread that's entered/exited while a program runs09:47
namusi dont know swedish09:47
crashanddiedo you live in sweden?09:47
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: his language patterns seem to be indian09:48
timeless_mbp(unless they're chinese)09:48
namusno , iam from India09:48
namusnice guess09:48
timeless_mbpCorsac: each group makes a set of errors09:48
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crashanddieah crap, I copied the wrong line when I did the /whois, I looked at dvoid_'s address xd09:48
timeless_mbpyou can usually distinguish between indian, chinese, and latin american09:48
timeless_mbpand russian09:49
crashanddieand french/spanish/italian09:49
crashanddiewho are nearly in the same group as latin american09:49
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timeless_mbpgermans also make a distinct set of errors fwiw09:49
timeless_mbp(as do finns)09:49
crashanddieand americans09:50
timeless_mbpfinns tend to ask "why is your software broken, the iPhone looks better, you should make it look like the iPhone"09:50
crashanddiewho, along with any native english speakers, are the only ones who manage to mix up affet and effet09:50
infobotcrashanddie meant: who, along with any native english speakers, are the only ones who manage to mix up affet and effect09:50
timeless_mbpa finn complained about:
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timeless_mbpwith some apologies to some finns here,09:50
timeless_mbpFinns are IDIOTS09:51
Corsachmhm, midori doesn't resolve international hostname09:51
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timeless_mbpthey make American rednecks seem well traveled09:51
crashanddietimeless_mbp: finns are pretty much the european rednecks09:51
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timeless_mbpand growing up, being called a redneck was a grave insult09:51
crashanddieit still is09:52
crashanddiebut now we'd rather say hillbilly or billy bob09:52
timeless_mbpto me, it's lost its insult value having lived here09:52
timeless_mbpit's much more insulting to think "oh, he's a finn"09:52
timeless_mbpfinns seem to think:09:52
timeless_mbp"it's ok to schedule meetings so there's no time for lunch"09:53
timeless_mbp"our meeting is more important than anything else in the world"09:53
timeless_mbp"it's ok to schedule a meeting in conflict with an *ALL* hands"09:53
crashanddieerhm, that's just business, timeless_mbp ;)09:53
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timeless_mbpoh, and "it's ok to have multiple distinct ALL hands"09:53
fluxman, that's one bitter yankee ;(09:53
timeless_mbpsince after all, "ALL" doesn't mean "ALL"09:53
timeless_mbpit means … well, something else, i guess?09:54
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: scandinavian work culture is fun09:54
timeless_mbpflux: sorry, i dealt with two or three idiotic finns between friday and monday09:54
timeless_mbpthat's 2 more than my weekend quota09:54
crashanddieflux: he's jewish, he's still blowing off steam from a few generations ago.09:54
timeless_mbpi'm not paid enough to deal with them09:54
* Stskeeps ponders if this convo is turning a bit toxic09:55
* timeless_mbp goes to a meeting09:55
Corsacok, time to get to work then :)09:55
Stskeepsback to the business of the day09:55
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crashanddietoo late09:56
crashanddiehe elft09:56
Stskeepshis user is still here :P09:57
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timelessanyone here know the greasemonkey packager?10:13
Stskeepstimeless: got my URL from above10:13
timelessi'll grab it from the logs when i arrive somewhere10:14
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RST38hBut NPR reports that this good news may have a surprising downside: cleaner air might actually intensify global warming. One benefit of sulfates is that they've been helpfully blocking sunlight from striking the Earth for many decades, by brightening clouds and expanding their coverage10:23
RST38hAnd good morning to you all.10:23
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timeless_mbpRST38h: good morning to you too10:32
* timeless_mbp woke up too early today10:32
timeless_mbpmorning shouldn't be before noon10:32
ruskiegood morrow all10:32
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ofauchonHi. I'm looking for screen command line tool. Do the package exists ? I can't find it . Thx10:36
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* RST38h watches morning sulfates from the panoramic window10:41
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furunk3lyes hello10:44
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meceI tohught I might make a small application in Qt, but how is it now, can I make Qt apps that can actually be used on the device?10:58
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zokiermece, i'd wait until pr1.2 before trying to get apps to the device11:26
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chem|stmece: if they are compiled against 1.1.1 sure11:29
hrwso pr1.1.5 is next unknown?11:29
chem|sthrw: something like that ;)11:29
Sceltmece: did you get that packaging working for HOMM2?11:30
tybolltzokier: Wait for pr 1.2?11:30
tybolltthat's like waiting for godot - innit?11:30
chem|stif your qt dependencies are set to qt4.5 it should work if your program works with qt4.511:30
chem|sttybollt: hurd11:30
meceScelt, yep11:30
Sceltmece: in devel?11:31
meceScelt, yep11:31
tybolltI solidly believe DNF will be released prior to PR1.211:31
meceScelt, if you don't have data, you can download the demodata package.11:31
Sceltmece: yeah. gotta check it at home11:31
mecetybollt, I've preordered DNF11:31
Sceltmece: awesome work11:32
chem|sttybollt: is that a reasonable guess?11:32
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tybolltmece: :D11:32
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Sceltmece: what was the package name again?11:32
Sceltmece: got it, fheroes211:33
meceScelt, it's not without issues. Here's the thread.  The latest should work pretty well though.11:33
mecehey howcome some apps' icon become visible right away, while mine demands a reboot, or at least some major event to become visible?11:33
Sceltmece: are you from Turku or Maarianhamina?11:34
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Sceltmece: I have the same issue, dunno why11:34
meceScelt, Turku. Where'd you get Mariehamn?11:34
Sceltmece []11:34
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meceScelt, lol it's the computer's name. It was used on some åland project before I had it apparently11:34
chem|stmece: I dont know if that depends on trackerd, its a 50:50 chance I get a blue box or an icon right away11:35
Sceltdamn my 3G worked fast11:35
Sceltdownloaded the 22 Mt fheroes2-data in 20 seconds or so11:35
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chem|stScelt: simple math 22*800/756~~2511:37
mecechem|st, I tried some gtk-icon-refresh or something like that in the postinst, but it did nothing :/11:37
chem|stmy provider is stuck with 352 or something11:37
Sceltchem|st: yeah but it's rare that it downloads so fast11:38
chem|stScelt: the speed was never an issue the lag was for me11:38
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chem|stmece: I guess there is something else to trigger than gtk-update-icon-cache11:42
Stskeepsgtk-update-icon-cache is a null-oop11:42
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chem|stmece: the wiki says run gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor11:45
chem|stin your postinst, if that does nothing look for a bug11:46
Sceltmece: awesome game!11:46
hrwsomeone remember page with maemosdk squeeze update instructions?11:47
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squiddumm, wtf happened to my microb :S11:49
squiddurlbar only has url, no buttons :O11:49
jacekowskithat's correct11:49
chem|sthrw: whats your problem?11:49
jacekowskiit's urlbar11:49
jacekowskiif it was supposed to have buttons it would be called buttonbar11:49
jacekowskior urlbuttonbar11:50
chem|sthrw: the only issue I had was that xephyr uses different options11:50
hrwchem|st: ok, so you do not know what I want11:50
chem|sthrw: well... last time I had it running was right after upgrades, and yes Idk ;)11:52
hrwchem|st: armel target do not use xephyr at all11:52
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chem|sthrw: upgrade on armel ran through without any faults11:53
squiddi c11:53
squiddno problem anymore, restarting microb made button reappear11:53
hrwsquidd: I got same today11:53
chem|stbut somehow I am still missing somthing as some selfcompiled libs do not work properly yet11:53
squiddhrw: omg, must be a sign. maybe we will get pr1.2 today :O11:54
hrwsquidd: pr1.2 will be at 12 november11:54
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hrwsquidd: or we will get pr1.1.5 + bonus time travel to two weeks ago11:55
chem|sthrw: I thought it was on 01/04....11:55
mece~seen noobmonk3y11:57
infobotnoobmonk3y <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11h 15m 39s ago, saying: 'healthcheck is back up and working again!'.11:57
meceI'm just craptacularly lazy. I think I'll go with pyqt instead. Don't feel like fighting with c++ today.11:58
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chem|sthrw: will there be movies on the time travel?11:59
mecepyside or pyqt4?12:01
hrwI hate sbox12:04
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RST38hmoo wazd12:17
wazdRST38h: heya :)12:19
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wazdRST38h: I'm going to visit SPB Fruct thing :)12:19
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KhertanHi !12:21
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wazdKhertan: hey there :)12:21
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Khertannoobmonk3y: app manager read the icon file from the controle file12:22
RST38hwazd: Don't drink yourself to death =)12:22
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wazdRST38h: well, can't promise anything :P12:24
tybolltuhm, drinking yourself to death is kind of implied when living east of helsinki... ;P12:24
JaffaMorning, all12:25
wazdJaffa: heya12:25
hrwdie maemo die!12:25
hrw~curse sbox for being unusable shit12:26
tybolltlong live maemo!12:26
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, sbox for being unusable shit !12:26
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TermanaHow could you possibly wish that on someone12:27
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RST38hhrw <--- really emotional about sb12:29
RST38hhrw: BTW, dpkg crashes in sb2 for unknown reason. Got Karmic with the latest (patched) kernel. Tried both lenny and etch tools12:30
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StskeepsRST38h: test if even simple binaries crash12:30
RST38hSts: No, just dpkg12:30
RST38hSts: I know of the NX bug, but have got the latest Ubuntu kernel12:30
RST38hSts: Actually, dpkg -i crashes, just dpkg is fine =)12:31
Stskeepsdpkg is probably a host tool12:31
hrwRST38h: I maintained one package for maemo5: mdbus2. today sbox died during rebuilding of newer version12:31
hrwand I really do not like to need to run vm just to rebuild small pacakge. and no, I do not want sbox infected host system12:33
RST38hhrw: Why not move to sb2 though?12:33
hrwRST38h: another ia32 binary only?12:35
RST38hhrw: prolly, although I do not know why it bothers you12:36
RST38hIt installs from a repo like any normal Ubuntu app. Runs transparently, unlike sb112:36
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tybollttim e less12:40
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meceare all the qt libs removed from extras?12:50
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ccookeMorning, all12:53
MohammadAGmorning ccooke12:53
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* Khertan still doesn't understand the concept of qt12:57
hrwKhertan: ?12:58
Khertansomeone maybe can explain me how to implement an auto indent in a qtrichtext12:58
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Khertani mean ... i should trap text change slot12:58
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Khertanbut i didn't get the change12:59
Khertani just know that changes happen12:59
Khertanit s a bit useless for my user12:59
Khertanit s a bit useless for my use12:59
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Khertanok ... i understand ... i need to subclass QTextEdit and his method keyPressEvent13:03
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d14morning o/13:13
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MohammadAGmorning d14 \o13:18
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* d14 has day off13:19
d14MohammadAG: whats new? :)13:19
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chadiHi. Please read the last post of this thread:
chadiDid I brick my device?13:22
chadiThe script says this is a safe way :/13:24
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SpeedEvilwell - the author wzs probably wrong13:24
SpeedEvilreflash the phone in the normal way13:24
chadiSo my data is lost?13:25
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SpeedEvilno, probably not13:25
SpeedEvilreflashing the root does not affect your data, which is on the mydocs and home partitions13:26
chadiwait, doesn't reflashing clear out all data?13:26
SpeedEvilit only rewrites the root - unless you use the 'with mmc' flash image13:26
chadiand you said "the normal" way. so the other way is the one with emmc?13:27
SpeedEvilno - I mean with the flasher tool13:27
Khertani just found that you can download not yet release image on tablets-dev13:28
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chadiBy the way, I am not sure which variant I have. Does it matter?13:28
Khertanof course it s not real images :)13:28
infobotfrom memory, flashing is
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andre__Khertan, uh? at least there's nothing newer than 3.2010.02-8 on
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Khertanandre__: no of course there is nothing in the php list :)13:30
andre__ah. hehe13:30
MohammadAGandre__, maybe he digged into the source13:30
* MohammadAG does a wget -m13:30
Khertanit s look like you got an image13:30
Khertanbut it s just an html file content :)13:31
Arkenoiquite strange, worked perfectly well for me (if it is the same script)13:31
Khertanandre__: with an error :)13:31
sECuRE<b>Warning</b>:  fopen(/var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900/downloads/RX-51_2010SE_10.2010.16-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin) [<a href='function.fopen'>function.fopen</a>]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in <b>/var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900.php</b> on line <b>175</b><br />13:31
andre__hmm. looks like you can add any kind of parameter there and always get a download13:31
andre__I also get a download when just entering
Khertanandre__: yep13:32
andre__of course it's a html file13:32
Khertanof course13:32
chadiso you guys are sure that no data will be lost after reflashing? like contacts, conversations, etc. I do not use an external memory card...13:32
StskeepsKhertan: that one makes me wonder if there's f=/etc/passd13:32
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hrwyou can give anything as "f" value13:32
KhertanStskeeps: already try :)13:32
RST38hSo, got PR1.2?13:33
Khertani ll not publish a such things if directory changes was possible13:33
Khertani ll warn nokia before for security issue ... but here there isn't :)13:33
andre__errm... so there is no "not yet released image"? or is there?13:33
KhertanRST38h: nope ... except if you consider : <b>Warning</b>:  fopen(/var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900/downloads/RX-51_2010SE_10.2010.16-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin) [<a href='function.fopen'>function.fopen</a>]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in <b>/var/tabletsdev/nokia_N900.php</b> on line <b>175</b><br /> as a pr 1.2 :)13:34
Khertanandre__: nope of course13:34
andre__still, interesting13:34
Khertani think it was when the download start13:34
andre__haha, okay13:34
Khertanbut when it s end 500kb later ... i understood my errors :)13:34
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BusterBWhich uses less cpu? Osso-media-server, mplayer, default media player, or somethin else? Just tryin to play xvid encode with mp3 audio avi that will last longer on battery.13:42
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RST38hdefaul tmedia player13:43
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BusterBk ty13:43
RST38hN8 officially revealed13:44
RST38hLooks closer to iPhone, no keyboard, xenon flash and 12mpx camera13:45
RST38hFinally, plain black plastic casing, or so it looks13:45
zokiersymbian :/13:46
asjah n8 it is :) coo13:46
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MiXu-It remains to be seen if Symbian^3 delivers.13:47
RST38hMiXu: Delivers exactly the same as previous symbian13:47
RST38hNo surprises there13:47
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MiXu-If the responsiveness and the UX is good enough, I say N8 may even be a good product.13:47
asjwow, and they're selling the green one?13:47
MiXu-RST38h: What's that comment based on?13:48
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MiXu-Even if you've tried the development version, I'd assume the product isn't ready at this point and the UX will change towards the release.13:50
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BusterBWhoa is the quad band hspa?13:51
PhonicUKhey all13:51
TermanaThat comment is based on the fact Symbian is relatively not accepted as great in the mass media. Its probably doubtful this will change it13:51
TermanaSorry, I should rephrase that - thats what *I* think the comment is about.13:51
PhonicUKSymbian feels very dated to use imo13:51
SpeedEvilI wonder how many real megapixels 12 is.13:51
TermanaThat may or may not of been what RST38h meant13:52
MiXu-Windows is really dated also.13:52
MiXu-But hey, look.13:52
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PhonicUKMiXu, it doesn't feel dated because Windows 7 has done a reasonably good job at keeping with the times13:52
PhonicUKbut Symbian feels like its barely changed in 5 years13:52
Surfawindows is indeed dated, but win7 is excellent os13:53
TermanaMiXu-: I'm not sure Windows 7 looks all that dated at all. But that doesn't change the fact its still a sack of crap13:53
MiXu-PhonicUK: And if Symbian manages to do the same... why not?13:53
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zokiersymbian is bit like winxp. it kinda works, but its age begins to feel :)13:53
PhonicUKIf they manage it then fair enough, I'm talking in the presence tense13:53
MiXu-Windows 7 is exellent13:53
PhonicUKS60v5 on my N97 feels somewhat clunky to use at the best of times13:53
MiXu-I'm not judging S^3 until I see it.13:53
PhonicUKonly reason I keep my N97 around is for Spotify13:54
PhonicUKotherwise I'd sell it xD13:54
MiXu-In my opinion N97 was the biggest piece of crap Nokia has released for a while. :D13:54
MiXu-At least the PR1.013:54
PhonicUKI don't regret getting it, I got a lot out of it13:54
MiXu-Haven't tried the upgraded onew.13:54
PhonicUKI wish they'd stayed with Webkit as the primary web engine with Maemo13:54
PhonicUKthat was one of the things that Symbian still has going for it13:54
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asjPhonicUK: omg why?13:54
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PhonicUKits faster?13:55
SpeedEvil - vote for meego! :)13:55
MiXu-I am cautiously hopeful about Symbian^3 being usable. Unfortunately I won't be surprised if S^3 is as bad as S60 5th.13:55
asjPhonicUK: really? it sucks13:55
RST38hPhonicUK: 5800 is pretty much ok13:55
PhonicUK<3 webkit13:55
MohammadAGMiXu-, S60's good, for non touch phones13:55
MiXu-MohammadAG: Yes it is13:56
PhonicUK5800 = N97 w/o keyboard and 1/2 as much storage13:56
RST38hMiXu: I will be surprised if it is not13:56
asjPhonicUK: I'll admit I just want ABP13:56
PhonicUKvery similar13:56
RST38hPhonicUK: But it works well13:56
RST38hPhonicUK: Within the limits of S60 applicability of course13:56
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asjMohammadAG: I would disagree13:56
RST38hi.e. S60-based device is a PHOEN not a computer13:56
MiXu-And the good thing about Symbian is the maturity. If you compare a recent Symbian phone to Maemo, there are lots of things that Maemo doesn't do out of the box, but symbian does.13:56
MiXu-Like SyncML support for instance.13:57
MiXu-And Symbian phones tend to be better as _phones_ than N900 :)13:57
PhonicUKMiXu, I can't really say the same for N97 vs N90013:57
PhonicUKmy N97 is really unreliable13:57
RST38hN900 is an ok phone really13:57
RST38hPhonicUK: As I said, get yourself a 580013:57
PhonicUKThe only thing bugging me with the N900 is the portrait mode bug13:57
asjMiXu-: symbian prioritizes tasks well, as such the audio doesn't break up, calls can be answered, etc.  Maemo needs a lot of work there.13:58
PhonicUKWhy get a 5800 if I have an N97 and an N900? :P13:58
MiXu-Ok, haven't tried N97 lately, so let's compare it to N95, which is old, but reliable.13:58
k9and the camera dont have timer in N90013:58
PhonicUKthe N95 was cool13:58
RST38hN97 is a bad apple.13:58
PhonicUKquake 3 :)13:58
PhonicUKLike I said though, only reason I keep my N97 is for spotify13:58
k9N900 internet is faster thatn N9713:58
PhonicUKif we get a Maemo spotify client with offline support, its gone13:58
PhonicUKI may even end up writing it myself13:58
RST38h"Brazilians ordered to have more sex"13:59
PhonicUKyou're reading The Register?13:59
asjn900 is missing gravity, sports tracker, ovi maps that doesn't suck13:59
* RST38h is reading The Register13:59
MohammadAG_<k9> N900 internet is faster thatn N9713:59
MohammadAG_everything's faster than the N9713:59
MohammadAG_that thing's crap13:59
* MohammadAG_ is talking from experience14:00
PhonicUKIf the N97 had a GPU ala N95, it would have sold so much better14:00
PhonicUKthen it would have some decent games14:00
PhonicUKthat said some of the software renderers ive seen on it are pretty stunning14:00
w00t_even with a GPU, the phrase 'lipstick on a pig' comes to mind14:00
k9MohammadAG_: have you tried comparing the N97 and N900 internet connection? prove it14:00
chadithe N97 has an excellent slider, imo14:00
PhonicUKI like that the screen comes up at an angle14:01
PhonicUKk9, I have an N97 and N900 right in front of me14:01
MiXu-good point14:01
PhonicUKliterally right now14:01
chadibut that's the only thing that's better than the N90014:01
MohammadAG_k9, umm, it is faster14:01
PhonicUKtrust me the N900 wipes the floor with it14:01
MiXu-yes it does14:01
MohammadAG_the form factor rocked14:02
PhonicUKI'd have to use a Nokia 6650 Fold to make a video tho xD14:02
MohammadAG_but the widgets kill them self14:02
MohammadAG_cause of low RAM14:02
MohammadAG_fail ^14:02
PhonicUK128MB RAM, woo!14:02
PhonicUKIt ran quake 2 really well though14:02
MohammadAGPhonicUK, megadrive at 15fps14:02
k9so N900 sucks?14:02
k9i was even planning to buy14:02
tybolltaaaaaagh buggy POS n90014:02
* deegee_ loves his N900 :o)14:03
MohammadAGk9, N900 ftw14:03
MiXu-N900 mostly rocks... I'm just hoping they've fixed the major bugs in PR1.214:03
PhonicUKMohammadAG, Megadrive ran full speed for me14:03
k9ok ill buy iphone instead14:03
hrwI would not buy it again14:03
PhonicUKso long as I didn't use full screen (1:1 mode)14:04
MiXu-last night mine didn't charge at all14:04
MohammadAGPhonicUK, I used full screen14:04
Khertan <<< interesting14:04
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tybolltright now, I entered "add things to the desktop" mode and all of a sudden everything became un-tap-able, couldn't click on anything. However the bgd still scrolled if I made it14:05
SpeedEvilhmm. Rundown test - 71h connected to wifi. But that was starting at about 90% charge14:05
tybollt(It was right after installing OMW that this behaviour started, go figure)14:05
SpeedEvil(and using it for maybe an hour also)14:05
asjthe more I  look at the n8 the more I think it'll be a popular consumer phone, especially when it comes free on a plan14:06
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* SpeedEvil wonders if the 12MP camera is in the same socket as the n900s...14:07
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tybolltspeedy: The X6?14:07
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asjSpeedEvil: you wish ;)14:07
PhonicUKIt's prolly 6MPx upscaled14:07
tybolltdefine 'upscale'?14:08
SpeedEvilasj: I doubt it, yeah14:08
PhonicUKsoftware upscaled14:08
tybolltare there "true" 12MP cams and "upscaled" ones?14:08
asjthey're advertising the large sensor, I wonder what the noise looks like14:08
SpeedEvilThe n900 is a 'real' 5MP sensor.14:08
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SpeedEvilBut - due to the lens - and physics - it gets ~2MP14:08
PhonicUKA lot of digi cams say "X mpixels" and says "Y mpixel sensor, upscalled to X mpixels"14:09
PhonicUKin the small print14:09
tybolltSpeedEvil: and still they brag hi and lo about the AWETASTIC!111 carl zeis lens?!14:09
PhonicUKhmm, the skin on my hand is peeling off...14:10
asjyou mean the doublet from 1899?14:10
MohammadAGthe N8 looks good14:10
MohammadAGon paper14:10
KhertanMohammadAG: in fact no ... it s doesn't run Maemo :)14:10
SpeedEviltybollt: yes.14:10
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tybolltSpeedEvil: nokia for the lose!14:11
MohammadAGKhertan, on paper, as in hardware :)14:11
MohammadAGI'll pass14:11
SpeedEviltybollt: It's like advertising that you've got a _really_good_ 1cm diameter penis.14:11
k9iphone is the best? dont u think14:11
tybolltSpeedEvil: DAMIT TO HELL! How did you know that? :-(14:11
SpeedEvilk9: nokia 333014:11
MohammadAGk9 very wrong channel14:11
KhertanMohammadAG: my paper say : Symbian^3 :)14:11
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MohammadAGKhertan, burn it14:12
k9mohammand: why am i in a wrong channel? im only asking if whats the best mobile N series or Iphone14:12
MohammadAGlet it burn in hell14:12
MohammadAGk9, the iPhone still can't properly multitask :)14:12
^24sevenk9, depends what you want to do with it, and what you want from it14:12
k9tnx 24seven14:13
KhertanConnectors:  HDMI, 3.5 mm AV connector <<< funny14:13
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MohammadAGKhertan, LOL14:13
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MohammadAGfor the non HD TVs :)14:13
Khertanyep :)14:14
Khertanand i don't think that the output is really hd :)14:14
MohammadAGKhertan, it's zune "HD"14:15
hrwk9: nokia knows how to make big amounts of phones. but they forgot how to make good software for it.14:15
hrwk9: I think that there is only one branch of nokia phones which shows where nokia goes: S4014:15
MohammadAGKhertan, no one gives a crap about res *looks at iPhone*14:16
KhertanMohammadAG: yep14:16
MohammadAGKhertan, it has 256MBs of ram o.o14:17
MohammadAGthe Omnia HD had that!14:17
Khertanit s really important to load this facebook website14:18
MohammadAGKhertan, mind typing the symbol between symbian and 3?14:18
hrwk9: maemo devices always suffered from lack of interest inside of nokia software teams. you can get apps which will never be finished and forget about good application from outside of nokia.14:18
MohammadAG(I broke the Sym char menu)14:18
Khertanhrw: hum ...14:18
KhertanMohammadAG: use copy / paste :)14:19
k9hrw: i guess your right, to much apps in maemo but not perfectly done14:19
MohammadAGKhertan, I found it lol14:19
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MohammadAGKhertan, copy and paste will work, till I need to copy something else14:20
hrwKhertan: I know that there are few good apps in extras. but I will never say that there are many apps for maemo14:20
meceis Qt SDK available to the general public?14:21
Khertanmece: it seems14:21
MohammadAGQt SDK?14:21
MohammadAGoh, that14:21
Khertanmaybe we didn't talk about the same version14:21
MohammadAGKhertan, sure you're not infobot? :p14:21
Khertanno i'm just currently downloading it14:22
MohammadAGoh lol14:22
meceKhertan, thanks!14:22
Khertannope your welcome14:22
MiXu-Oooh! Nokia Qt SDK beta is out <314:22
MiXu-at forum nokia14:22
meceMan i watched the promo vid and found myself strangely aroused.14:22
MiXu-mece: me too14:23
MohammadAGaroused o.O14:23
MiXu-There was no rally english in it. I'm surprised.14:23
crashanddie_Khertan: t'es la?14:23
mecewell the one guy with 25M downloads from ovi was a bit ralli14:23
Khertancrashanddie_: yep14:23
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MiXu-mece: That wasn't bad at all14:23
mecegood servers... 4Mb/s14:23
Khertanmece: i give you the wrong link14:24
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meceso what did I download?14:24
MohammadAGKhertan, tsk tsk tsk, you're downloading it for windows then14:24
meceI have windows xp here at work actually, so it was the correct link. I was rather surprised that you knew that though :D14:24
MiXu-mece: No it's not the same as the one he pasted later14:25
MiXu-qt-sdk-win-opensource-2010.02.1.exe is the old one (the official one)14:25
MiXu-Or I don't know which one you're after :)14:26
MiXu-But the Nokia Qt SDK Beta was released today.14:26
MiXu-And it seems kick ass14:26
mecedamn, I hope mece @ is me...14:27
meceI think it is.14:27
KhertanMohammadAG: yes as i'm at work14:27
mecewell this was Qt SDK 2010.02.114:27
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meceok so I want the beta one.14:27
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Anss|MiXu-, do you have a link?14:27
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MiXu-There's also
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MiXu-There was some simulator in the video. Could that mean no more scratchbox? <314:29
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meceshit. I think I resetted someone else's password...14:29
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meceok, I'm registered, downloading and ready to fuck things up!14:33
meceerr.. Apologies for the swearing. Got a little carried away there. This is not twitter after all.14:33
noobmonk3yoo khertan is alive14:34
MohammadAG__it isn't?14:34
* noobmonk3y waves frantically at khertan!14:34
* noobmonk3y bounces up and down14:34
* MohammadAG__ was looking for the RT button14:34
mecehey n00bmonk3y, how do you develop pyqt? or is it pyside? My scratch said there were no qt libs available.14:35
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noobmonk3ymece i do it in python idle (on win vista/7 pc) then winscp it across and test it on the device14:35
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noobmonk3yinitially i used qt designer to give me an idea, found it easier to hand code :P14:35
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chadihey healthcheck ;)14:36
meceye.. well trying qtsdk now. Let's see how it is.14:36
noobmonk3ylol i get called by the application name now lols!14:36
noobmonk3yooo let me know how it goes14:36
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healthcheckhey chadi14:36
noobmonk3ymight try a re-install soon!14:36
noobmonk3ylol healthcheck14:36
tybollthrrm, I entirely forgot which was the "good" MSN thingy?14:36
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tybolltpecan by any chance?14:36
noobmonk3ypecan pie?14:36
mecepecan be the good.14:36
tybollt~slap noobmonk3y14:36
* infobot slaps noobmonk3y, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!14:37
MohammadAGmakes you haze-y14:37
* noobmonk3y winks at khertan...14:37
meceis pecan in extras btw? I was it was close recently.14:37
MohammadAGwithout being purple14:37
noobmonk3y|fondle tybollt14:37
chadinoobmonk3y: yea, you healthcheck led to a brick :P14:37
noobmonk3y~fondle tybollt14:37
noobmonk3yyay to fecked up keyboard languages14:37
mecehealtcheck bricked?14:37
noobmonk3yhealthcheck works for me :D14:37
chadimece nope14:37
* MohammadAG sues noobmonk3y 14:37
* noobmonk3y countersue's MohammadAG muhahahahaha14:38
* MohammadAG demands 100000 slices of bacon14:38
mecemm bacon14:38
* lcuk pre ordered the bacon14:38
chadiit told me that 95% of rootfs is busy, so i bricked my device after trying to free it :P14:38
MohammadAGLOL it really does ping lcuk14:38
noobmonk3yanyway who started an evil healthcheck bricking rumour?14:38
mecelcuk, with a side order of DNF?14:38
tybolltIIRC the guy who initially wrote lpurple wrote a drop in client for msn on the n900, not sure if it's pecan or haze :S14:38
* noobmonk3y blames healthcheck14:38
RST38hlcuk: in bulk?14:38
chadisure :P14:38
* MohammadAG blames the guy who made healthcheck14:38
mecepecan is written by a former haze coder.14:38
* noobmonk3y blames lcuk 14:38
meceand pecan is the good one.14:39
MohammadAGsure let's blame him14:39
* noobmonk3y needs bacon......14:39
tybollt~fondle mece's14:39
tybollteeeeew ;)14:39
noobmonk3ychadi:  is your device ok now?14:39
* mece blames canada14:39
* MohammadAG blames the ash cloud14:39
noobmonk3ymece:  good idea14:39
chadinoobmonk3y nope, dowloading the binaries to reflash :P14:40
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chadistill in coma14:40
mecemplayer is the only app that has really fracked up my precious.14:40
noobmonk3yMohammadAG:  be the ash clouds fault....  that was lcuks fault..... so the world is lcuk 's fault?14:40
* noobmonk3y eeeeeeeeek's14:40
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chadithank you =)14:40
MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, he taught sharks to shoot lasers14:40
* noobmonk3y will not install mplayer, as the device media player suits my needs :D14:40
noobmonk3yMohammadAG:  naaaa, that was mrs lcuk14:41
lcukyou guys doubted it?
chadibtw, noobmonk3y, i noticed that scrolling sucks; it sometimes moves after i pull out my finger from the screen14:41
ShadowJKmece: What did MPlayer do?14:41
noobmonk3ychadi:  QT scrolling = fail14:41
noobmonk3yany knowledgable PR1.2 / SDK people know if QT scrolling in lists is fixed soon?14:42
chadinoobmonk3y: QT scrolling or PyQT scrolling?14:42
meceShadowJK, it made my device stop playing media.14:42
noobmonk3ychadi: QT i think14:42
lcuknoobmonk3y, whats wrong?14:42
hrwmplayer... someone know which params (ao/vo) should be used on n900?14:42
noobmonk3ylcuk:  scrolling in healthcheck list box jumps around as and when it feels14:42
MohammadAG+ lasers, yeah, blame lcuk14:42
noobmonk3ylol MohammadAG ! nice14:43
chadinoobmonk3y; also, i prefer the non-colored theme :P14:43
mecehrw, pupnik had some nice ones to bypass pulse..14:43
noobmonk3ychadi: Meh14:43
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noobmonk3yhealthcheck = green, the governments will never catch on lol14:43
lcuknoobmonk3y, hes serious :p14:43
lcukhave a way to disable theme ;)14:43
noobmonk3ylcuk: i'm always serious :D14:43
* mece likes his phone black.14:43
ShadowJKhrw, -ao pulse -vo xv:ck-method=auto14:43
chadinoobmonk3y and one last thing: while loading, it asks me to enable GPS settings, but I have them disabled. That's annoying :D14:44
MinisteriHey. I'm creating few Maemo 5 -themes and I wanted to ask if it's possible to somehow create rounded borders on screen. Like in some earlier Maemo-version themes...14:44
MohammadAG<noobmonk3y> lcuk: i'm always serious :D14:44
noobmonk3ywell... kinda hard not too :( - as it tests the gps settings :|14:44
MohammadAGthat worries me14:44
MinisteriExample pic:
meceQt sdk is humongous!14:44
ShadowJKmece, I guess either the alsa-plugin-pulse-alsa-audiodevice chain failed, or then X's xv driver wedged itself.. it shouldn't even be possible for MPlayer to cause problems that presist across reboots though :P14:44
* noobmonk3y will think of a way to test GPS without using GPS one day... but for now, i'm not god :P14:45
MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, tie it with 91114:45
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chadinoobmonk3y; not that I don't want it, I jsut don't have it available in my country :P14:45
* MohammadAG hits GPS test14:45
noobmonk3yno gps chadi?14:45
MohammadAG"Dialing 911"14:46
meceShadowJK, I tried rebooting, uninstalling reinstalling media players codecs and whatnot14:46
hrwShadowJK: thx14:46
RST38hMinisteri: What theme is it???14:46
meceShadowJK, had to flash the fkkr14:46
noobmonk3ychadi:  since when did you live in atlantis?14:46
meceMinisteri, epic theme! What is it?14:46
ShadowJKMPlayer doesn't at all touch the default media player, and doesn't replace or use any of the codecs with the default media player14:46
MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, seriously, they can check your location using GPS, just ask them if they can14:46
noobmonk3ylol MohammadAG - you can triangulate on cell towers i spose14:46
chadinoobmonk3y i'm in the country where 3G is not available, where 1mbit is the fastest internet connection, etc..14:46
meceShadowJK, well that's what I installed, and that's what happened.14:46
noobmonk3ychadi:  sounds very much like the UK to me ;)14:47
MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, ask them for an exact location14:47
MohammadAGthey'll get a bit bored after a while though14:47
ShadowJKmece, although if you have a video file on the device that the default media player can't play, then it kills itself :)14:47
asjchadi: sucks being in the USA eh?14:47
noobmonk3ychadi:  - can make you a botched version without GPS if you want?14:47
MinisteriMece, just a mockup. Maybe I will make it later.14:47
meceShadowJK, the media player couldn't play ANYTHING14:47
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chadinoobmonk3y hah it's ok :p14:47
meceMinisteri, can you make it in obsidian too? I really like the flat buttons.14:47
ShadowJKmece, yeah that happens when you have a file it can't play anywhere on teh device :P14:47
MinisteriRST38h, It's not a theme. Just my mockup.14:47
MohammadAGbotched lol14:47
chadiasj: yea, lots of tsunamis14:48
ShadowJKit's a bug, fixed in PR1.2 maybe14:48
RST38hMinisteri: Ah please make it a theme =)~~~14:48
meceShadowJK, interesting.14:48
ShadowJKhey, how come nobody has made "Fixed in PR1.2" t-shirts yet?14:48
asjShadowJK: I'll buy one14:48
meceShadowJK, to replace the fixed in fremantle ones?14:48
ShadowJKmece, yeah :)14:48
Stskeepsi have a FiF tshit14:48
MinisteriIs there somewhere template.png -file of original Maemo5-theme, not SDK?14:48
* noobmonk3y has a fixed in pr1.2 tatoo on his...... erm... anyone fancy changing subject?14:48
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asjnoobmonk3y: no14:49
* noobmonk3y grins14:49
* noobmonk3y is going for some fresh air brb14:49
mece"fresh" air?14:49
noobmonk3yoh MohammadAG  - got python pong working hehe14:49
lcuknoobmonk3y pongs14:50
* noobmonk3y 's first attempt at pygame14:50
meceso,, you're working on a python port of iphoneOS?14:50
MohammadAGinfobot, ping14:50
noobmonk3ymece: as supposed to the fake fresh air non smokers breath in14:50
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mecenoobmonk3y, exactly :D14:51
meceexcept opposed not supposed14:51
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chadiwhen is the hong kong release of PR1.2?14:53
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MohammadAG29 feb14:54
MohammadAGTue Apr 27 14:54:20 IDT 201014:54
chadisame day of ubuntu's new LTS14:54
MohammadAGthat broke xephyr for me lol14:54
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chadithe beta?14:55
* frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a trout14:55
MohammadAGchadi, yeah14:55
MohammadAGbut plymouth was ftw14:56
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chadiI don't try betas :P14:56
chadi53mbs left for the *.bin!14:58
ShadowJKhm, are there any bugs that are fixed in >PR1.2?14:58
chadiShadowJK yeah, PR 1.3 :P14:59
tybolltPR 1.3 is a bug?14:59
* noobmonk3y slaps frals with a dolphin14:59
ShadowJKmaybe we can make "fixed in PR1.3" tshirts at the same time then14:59
tybolltwhy are you slaping him?14:59
chaditybollt a virtual one14:59
fralswhy shouldnt i?15:00
asjShadowJK: how about PR2.0?15:00
noobmonk3ygood point well made frals15:00
lcukfrals, \o15:00
ShadowJKasj, I wouldn't dare assume there'll be a 2.0 :P15:01
AppiahWe will get Duke Nukeem  forever with PR 2.015:02
* Appiah ducks15:02
MohammadAGPR2.0 will have a built in PS3 emulator15:03
RST38hShockingly Bowness, now Lady Sinclair, had a Commodore computer as a child, not a ZX Spectrum15:03
noobmonk3yMohammadAG:  PR 2.0 will be a PS4 you mean?! lol15:03
crashanddie_Hey guys, how would I go about re-creating the same kind of interface as the SMS conversations?15:03
crashanddie_(pymaemo / gtk)15:03
RST38hMohammadAG: And 5 cute little kittens!15:03
MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, that's PR2.115:03
noobmonk3ycrashanddie_: ask frals15:03
crashanddie_I want to do it very simply, I'm guessing a pannable area, but how do I create each SMS?15:03
lcukcrashanddie_, pyqt would be preferable perhaps15:03
MohammadAGRST38h, screw kittens, I want laser shooting penguins15:04
crashanddie_lcuk: nha just want to throw something together without too many dependencies15:04
* noobmonk3y lthinks a'lotta looping through the sqlite db?!15:04
auenfcreate it as a html page then ;)15:04
RST38hMohammadAG: Promised to us by Maemo Devices since Maemo515:04
RST38h(check #maemo logs for the proof)15:04
lcukwhat was promised!15:04
noobmonk3yfrikkin laser shooting penguins!15:05
* frals holds noobmonk3y responsible15:05
RST38hlcuk: the laser shooting penguins15:05
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lcukoh yeah those15:05
lcukhave you ever tried to herd penguins15:05
lcukworse than gerbils15:05
noobmonk3ygerbils mating with laser penguins = fecked up!15:05
lcukat least they come out cooked15:05
mecehey what's a standard font on N900?15:06
mecelike the aliases..15:06
Anss|noobmonk3y, you mean tux? :)15:06
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mecether eis monotype.. what is the standard variable width font called?15:06
MohammadAG<noobmonk3y> gerbils mating with laser penguins = fecked up! lmao15:06
crashanddie_sometimes the documentation doesn't make a lot of sense15:07
lcukmece, nokia sans afaik15:07
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crashanddie_"Never use <this>, you should use <this>"15:07
crashanddie_(and <this> is the same both times)15:07
* MohammadAG misses the "The next episode is about to begin" ads15:08
* noobmonk3y grins15:08
noobmonk3ytux is a cross between a gerbil and a frikkin laser shooting penguin?15:09
MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, he shoots fireballs in SuperTux15:09
tybollttux is Linus Torvalds inbred brother15:09
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jcrawfordhell yea just got the email that my N900 should be here over the next 2 weeks :)15:10
jcrawfordcannot wait for it15:10
auenfemail from?15:11
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tybolltfast forward two months and jcrawford will be lamenting about the POS that is N900 and no PR1.2 yet in here ;)15:11
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jcrawfordlol what is PR1.2?15:12
jcrawfordidc if it sux it's free for me so i cannot complain :)(15:12
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MohammadAGwho doesn't know PR1.215:12
Anss|legend says that penguin called tux shot linus with freaking lazer at zoo :)15:12
auenfahh, free n90015:12
auenfthat explains why the lack of actualy knowledge of the device15:13
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k9jcrawford: im selling my N90015:13
k9jcrawford: where you from?15:13
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jcrawfordk9, USA15:16
jcrawfordauenf, sure i have not looked at the device much.  I plan to do that once it is in hand.  No sense looking into developing without the phone in hand :)15:16
jcrawfordso seriously what is PR1.2?15:17
auenfthere is about 500 threads about PR1.2, start researching15:17
tybolltauenf: PR1.2 being looked forward to? You don't say! :)15:19
jcrawfordso there are a lot of issues currently with the N900 firmware?15:19
lcukjcrawford, its the next iteration15:20
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auenfnot really issues15:20
noobmonk3yjcrawford: my N900 thinks it is a saheep, i'm told PR1.2 will fix it15:20
* noobmonk3y also can't type15:20
auenfbut PR1.2 will add some things that people seem to have trouble waiting for15:20
* noobmonk3y grumbles15:20
lcukmy lego men arrived \o/15:20
noobmonk3yhealthcheck had 55k downloads yesterday, today it has 53k.........15:21
jcrawfordheh funny I work @ Nokia but not in the devices department (which is why i am in the dark on this stuff)15:21
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MohammadAGwhich dep then?15:21
* noobmonk3y rants at jcrawford15:21
MohammadAGdo us all a favor and burn it down15:21
jcrawfordlol i know i know15:21
noobmonk3ywhy the fuckles do they sell media for the n900 that it can't use!15:21
Sceltjcrawford: where's ovi maps 3 for n900?15:22
jcrawfordthe current solution sucks, we are hard at work though so you should see it straighten out soon15:22
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jcrawfordScelt, i have no idea and even if i did my NDA would restrict me from saying15:22
noobmonk3ythe last time i've heard nokia and soon in a sentence it had PR1.2 in it15:22
MohammadAGjcrawford, may I suggest something?15:22
Ken-Youngjcrawford, Wow - The OVI store may be the least popular part of Nokia for N900 users.15:22
Sceltjcrawford: I think it's in bit space :P15:22
Stskeepsjcrawford: that was brave to admit in public15:22
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noobmonk3ylol :D15:22
MohammadAGI doubt it will be taken into account though15:22
jcrawfordnoobmonk3y, that was the way the store was designed, soon you will only see products your device can install15:22
* tybollt bets a fiver jcrawford is in marketing15:22
noobmonk3ylol - strangely i still have no angst against jcrawford .... :P15:23
* chadi pokes healthcheck15:23
jcrawford;p marketing I think NOT15:23
* MohammadAG asks again15:23
* noobmonk3y kicks healthcheck into submission15:23
MohammadAGjcrawford, may I suggest something?15:23
jcrawfordMohammadAG, sure so long as you know i will take it like a grain of salt :)15:23
* noobmonk3y tweeting "nokia asking for an N8 to test healthcheck on... no answer - hehehe15:23
* MohammadAG wonders if he's on ignore15:23
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jcrawfordif it is a serious suggestion I will make it through the chain of command though15:23
chadinoobmonk3y M8 is symbian :P15:23
noobmonk3yi know chadi15:24
chadino health to check15:24
noobmonk3yyeah there is :P15:24
MohammadAGjcrawford, make an app that locks a directory, gets debs into it, installs them, then clears the directory and unlocks it15:24
mecehealthcheck is qt :P15:24
noobmonk3ylol MohammadAG15:24
noobmonk3yso mece?15:24
MohammadAGi'm serious15:24
noobmonk3ywhat did nokia release today?15:24
noobmonk3yit should work if i faff with the variables15:24
mecenoobmonk3y, shouldn't that work on n8?15:24
jcrawfordyes while the current OviStore sucks (for all devices) a new improved version is in the works (no release dates from me though) but know that stuff should get better soon.15:24
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MohammadAGjcrawford, basically like the current apt, but with a non user readable directory15:24
noobmonk3ymece: the screen etc will - but the specifics to maem owill bomb it out15:25
jcrawfordMohammadAG, that would be a suggestion for the Maemo team not the OviStore team :)15:25
chadiwhat's with nokia and the release dates?15:25
mecejcrawford, it can't suck that bad though. I hear someone is getting their software.15:25
noobmonk3yjcrawford: a suggestion for both to talk to each other ;)15:25
auenfnokia have never had release dates15:25
MohammadAGjcrawford, what's the ovi store team for then?15:25
jcrawfordI will see if I can dig out some contacts for you though15:25
MohammadAG(maemo related)15:25
MohammadAGlol noobmonk3y15:25
jcrawfordMohammadAG, we develop the store which interacts with devices15:25
jcrawfordyou would want to talk to the OviStore Client Development team for Maemo15:26
Sceltjcrawford: no you don't, you irc with maemo fans15:26
* noobmonk3y loves big companies.... it's as though the left hand doesnt know the right hand exists but they can both scratch the same butt cheek and forehead15:26
MohammadAGis there a client?15:26
* tybollt is actually waiting for a blog from Ari... "What PR1.2? We never promised such a thing! Forget it people, it's Harmattan and N910 from this point forward!"15:26
MohammadAGLOL noobmonk3y15:26
jcrawfordMohammadAG, honestly I am not sure how the N900 works yet but yes most phones have a native store client, those who don't use the mobi site15:26
noobmonk3yahhhh :D15:26
MohammadAGjcrawford, it uses a mobile site that downloads .install files15:26
jcrawfordlol noobmonk3y15:26
MohammadAGwhich is... very slow15:27
noobmonk3yjcrawford: welcome by the way :D - kinda good to hear from other perspectives15:27
jcrawfordMohammadAG, I am not sure if that will change or not in the future but I will discuss this with the Mobi team in that case15:27
* MohammadAG wants someone from Nokia in here15:27
chadiwhy don't we have the maemo source code available so that we fix our own bugs?15:27
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MohammadAGchadi, you wish15:27
jcrawfordMohammadAG, please email me, email coming through now15:27
MohammadAGbut seriously15:27
noobmonk3ychadi:  you do, except for the closed source parts15:27
MohammadAGah crap15:27
andre__chadi: what maemo source exactly?15:28
MohammadAGinfobot, openness15:28
infobotfoss is probably Free and Open Source Software15:28
chadiandre__ like everything, i'd like to take a look15:28
tybollt~scratch butcheek15:28
* infobot shreds butcheek's backside15:28
Stskeepsinfobot, openness is
noobmonk3ychadi:  most of it is available :D15:28
infobotokay, Stskeeps15:28
MohammadAGinfobot, openness15:28
noobmonk3ylol Stskeeps15:28
infobotsomebody said openness was
Stskeepschadi: -> that page15:29
chadinoobmonk3y fine, i'll google15:29
MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, alzeheimer15:29
chadiStskeeps okay thanks15:29
* MohammadAG corrects typos15:29
andre__chadi: like 80% of everything is available already.15:29
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* MohammadAG grumbles at SSU15:29
DocScrutinizer~tell Stskeeps about maemo-obsolete15:29
chadiandre__ and can I rebuild what I want?15:30
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MohammadAGchadi, yes15:30
Stskeepsandre__: 80% of the platform, yes :P15:30
MohammadAGyou can't SSU if you break the metapackage though15:30
andre__Stskeeps, ah, okay :-P15:30
chadiandre__ makes me want to fix that annoying skype bug15:30
MohammadAGskype's closed15:30
MohammadAGas telepathy-spirit15:30
Stskeepsandre__: (which is another magic number)15:30
andre__chadi, if you convince Skype to release their code, go ahead ;-)15:31
DocScrutinizerskype's soooo closed they even crypt the ELF15:31
frals"someone else should do it i just like to whine"15:31
Shapeshifterskype is evil15:31
DocScrutinizerno kidding15:31
MohammadAGskype's good15:32
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chadiandre__ so what happens exactly when they have a bug? the maemo team asks skype to fix that and skype releases a binary to test?15:32
andre__depends on where exactly the bug is, I'd say.15:32
Stskeepssounds reasonable15:32
SpeedEvilchadi: yes15:32
MiXu-Is anyone using PC or Ovi Suite with N900?15:32
MiXu-Which one is better?15:33
tybolltMiXu-: PC Suite _can_ backup the n90015:33
noobmonk3yMiXu-:  pcsuite15:33
andre__MiXu-, depends on which OS you're on, I'd say.15:33
noobmonk3yovi suite always fails :(15:33
tybolltMiXu-: ovi suite is entirely incompatible at all levels w/ the n90015:33
MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, both fail :P15:33
noobmonk3yMohammadAG: fails15:33
MohammadAGeven with my N97 they failed15:33
tybolltthat is the greatest farce there is about the N90015:33
noobmonk3yfrals: fails even worse15:33
MiXu-tybollt: Ah, I see15:33
tybolltit is !compatible w/ everything ovi15:34
fralsoi shutup noobmonk3y15:34
nid0the fact that 2 pieces of software even exist is the biggest fail15:34
* MohammadAG does a /cs kickban noobmonk3y how dare you!15:34
MiXu-nid0: I agree15:34
noobmonk3y~bitch-slap frals15:34
nid0one of the original reasons of the ovi suite was to amalgamate the 54689034680349034 different pieces of pc software nokia have15:34
noobmonk3y|hug frals15:34
noobmonk3y~hug frals15:34
tybolltin essence... nokia flagship is not compatible (after half a year on the market) w/ their flagship appstore/framework15:34
* infobot gets a running start and tackle-hugs frals 15:34
frals~nuke noobmonk3y15:34
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at noobmonk3y ... B☢☢M!15:34
nid0now theres just 54689034680349034 + 1215:34
tybolltthat is so entirely gruesomely pathetic and embarasing15:34
Stskeepswhere did n900 get stated as a flagship btw?15:34
noobmonk3yslight difference between a tackle-hug and a 100 missiles i feel15:35
nid0people just assume15:35
Arkenoiscp'ing media files to n900 sucks15:35
tybolltStskeeps: I stand corrected... :) It's a flagshit ;)15:35
noobmonk3yArkenoi: does it? works for me15:35
Arkenoidamn indexer tries to pick them up as they go and slows everything down15:35
nid0mass storage mode usb transfers are the way to move lots of media15:35
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Corsaccurrent flagship device is N8 according to google15:36
* noobmonk3y looks at frals......... get of that penguin you sick sick thing :P15:36
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tybolltit is as if the n900/maemo is the kid nokia never wish to have given birth to and now they do everything they can to adopt it away.15:36
MiXu-Boooo! You can't use the Nokia Qt SDK Beta with a PR1.1.1 :D15:37
MiXu-I want that damn PR1.2 already15:37
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Corsacpr1.2 is overrated15:37
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DocScrutinizerwhere's the thread on tmo where all the adds spotted out in the wild fot N900 are collected? Flagship? pfff!15:37
MiXu-Corsac: It isn't. My app requires it to run.15:37
SpeedEvilIf you write a sybian Qt app - how muh porting is there to put it on n900?15:37
MiXu-Depends on the UI15:38
MiXu-Or no. It should scale up just fine.15:38
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DocScrutinizermoin SpeedEvil15:39
fralsnoobmonk3y: not much else to do here in hel!15:39
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DocScrutinizer~nuke indexer & thumbnailer15:40
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at indexer & thumbnailer ... B☢☢M!15:40
MohammadAGjust nuke tracker15:40
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DocScrutinizerproduct of a schizoid wino on crack15:41
crashanddie_holy fucking shit15:42
crashanddie_they're opening up a human dead body, live on australian television15:43
crashanddie_they're actually removing the spinal chord as we speak15:43
chem|stcrashanddie_: record it pls15:43
crashanddie_in a hotel mate15:43
auenfPoll: Problems with N900 USB port becoming broken / loose and resulting warranty & repair issues  1,337 replies15:43
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Stskeepsmeh, our christmas lunches at my previous work had hip surgery videos as entertainment15:43
crashanddie_and obviously it's a german doctor15:43
Lynourecrashanddie_: it's called autopsy. and it's not shockingly new invention =) Unless they use N900 do do it.15:43
crashanddie_Lynoure: the body is held upright by the head15:44
crashanddie_Lynoure: and skinned15:44
SpeedEvilauenf: A lot of that is really random crap - not people reporting 'my n900 broke'15:44
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: and alive?15:44
auenfcrashanddie_, its a repeat15:44
auenfAnatomy for Beginners (Movement)15:44
auenfProfessor Gunther von Hagens performs dissections on real human bodies, laying bare the intricacy of human design. During each episode, von Hagens focuses on a different set of anatomical systems: movement, circulation, digestion and reproduction. In this episode, he dissects a man to explain how the human body moves in great detail. | Documentary, Medical, Documentaries, ScienceNatureTechnology | Repeat | MA n, MA15:44
SpeedEvilauenf: it's preople asking - every page - 'how many n900s have this problem' and stating 'the n900 sucks', and ...15:45
crashanddie_auenf: watching it?15:45
auenfSpeedEvil, i know the thread, its 1337 repies of crap15:45
auenfjust noticed the number ;)15:45
SpeedEvilauenf: oh15:45
SpeedEvilauenf: I missed that.15:45
auenfcrashanddie_, its a repeat, no need to see it again15:45
MohammadAG1337? xD15:45
chem|stMohammadAG: aware of ;)15:46
SpeedEvilauenf: I thought you were just commenting ont he apparant unreliuability from over 1000 comments15:46
auenfthe unreliability of the maemo forums, yes, not the device15:46
chem|stthat guy did the body worlds exhebitions15:47
RST38himported Chinese corpses for his "art"...15:47
chem|stRST38h: its not art its science15:48
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fralsfuckin hell my flight not on the board yet15:50
fralstime to lose the shirt i think15:50
jcrawfordsorry back15:50
tybolltfrals: where you at?15:50
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fralshel vantta15:51
crashanddie_frals: I spent 17 hours waiting in an airport last time15:51
jcrawfordtime to get to work, be back later :)15:51
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MiXu-Hmm. The new Qt Simulator is total crap.15:51
lcukfrals you will be arrested if you start stripping off lol15:51
crashanddie_frals: after a 26 hour flight around the world15:51
fralslol lcuk you speak from experience i recon15:52
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MiXu-In the simulator my app doesn't look anything like it looks like on the N900.15:52
fralscrashanddie_: sounds... ><15:52
lcuklol frals yup15:52
crashanddie_frals: he was in need of bacon15:52
crashanddie_frals: showing his fat wasn't an option though15:52
lcukcrashanddie_, did they let you take the handcuffs off?15:52
crashanddie_lcuk: nha, i'm tongue-typing15:53
fralsfirst battery down to 20ish percent hmm15:53
crashanddie_it's weird because for the first few days you taste all the residue in the keyboard15:53
fralsshould get the other one from the bag probably15:53
crashanddie_but after a while you can get pretty good at it15:53
meceMiXu-, it didn't work on this computer. Some profile errors. It's a mess :/15:53
lcukhot swap batteries gunclip style would be beneficial15:53
MohammadAGlcuk, I suggested that :P15:54
MohammadAGthen mod a bullet belt15:54
MohammadAGand attach it15:54
MiXu-they should've just left the simulator out completely15:54
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MohammadAGmake it vibrate on each battery changed15:54
lcukmms brings on new meaning15:54
DocScrutinizerjcrawford: god to have you around here15:54
DocScrutinizergood even15:54
lcukmultimedia by munitions service15:54
tybolltfrals: so there's still that clous BS then?15:54
tybolltfrals: I don't get it (I just got home by bus, last wednesday) I thought the flights were bussiness as usual?15:55
fralsthey are15:56
fralsim just early :D15:56
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MohammadAGwho's working on live wallpapers here?15:56
* MohammadAG has a suggestion :P15:56
MohammadAGinstead of moving desktops, move widgets, that way the wallpapers run on all 4 "desktops"15:57
X-FadeMohammadAG: live wallpapers should work on all desktops.15:57
meceMohammadAG, lcuk,
X-FadeMohammadAG: Should not be limited to just one.15:58
mecein the movie genre retarded-awesome15:58
MohammadAGX-Fade, my suggestion saves battery life15:58
MohammadAGinstead of running 4 live wallpapers15:58
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MohammadAGit's one, for all 4 widget screens15:58
X-FadeMohammadAG: Nah, everything that is not in sight, is not running.15:58
MohammadAGX-Fade, and how would they time them to run without any frame drops while swiping :)15:59
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lcuko_O eye tracking, only turn o nthe screen if people are looking at it :D16:00
DocScrutinizerwtf is a live wallpaper? they didn't kill the trees before gluing them to the wall?16:00
lcukactive content on the background layer of desktops16:01
SpeedEvillcuk: you mean porn.16:01
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lcukbut active may simply be "change wallpaper every 4 hours"16:01
MiXu-Live wallpaper has got to be the most useless feature ever.16:01
DocScrutinizeryou bet16:01
* tybollt bets16:02
tybolltwhat am I betting on doc?16:02
lirakisMiXu- only if its useless wallpaper16:02
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MohammadAGmece, seriously? lol16:02
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lcukmany things in life are folly :)16:02
MiXu-What would be a useful wallpaper then? :D16:02
lirakisMiXu- if there was a live map that always update your position16:02
lirakis... that would be sweet16:02
DocScrutinizeron maximum uselessness always making it on the top16:02
lirakisi live in NYC ... that would be a really nice feature to have....16:03
lirakisi know there is a map widget ... but goes to sleep.... and doesnt update unless you tell it to16:03
lcuklirakis, until the widgets ontop cover your street and you get annoyed :p16:03
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it can be helpful16:03
MiXu-That would be useful, yes. But that would mean you'd be able to use the device for 2 hours instead of 4.16:03
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lirakislcuk ... for quick reference16:03
lcukMiXu-, its not forced16:03
* MohammadAG sets an exam presentation as a live wallpaper16:03
lirakisMiXu-, if you used coarse location?16:03
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lcuksome people sit with devices plugged in and WANT to run supreme quick idle time things16:03
MiXu-lirakis: Hmm. Good point.16:04
meceMohammadAG, I was thinking reloading batteries. :)16:04
MiXu-It would still have to update quite frequently to be useful16:04
lcuklirakis, of course16:04
MohammadAGmece, still, seriously? lol16:04
lirakisMiXu-, yeah .. every 5 min. or some thing16:04
lirakisi mean.. ive seen it on the nexus one - its pretty sweet16:04
SpeedEvilMiXu-: I did a 0th cut of that - but I accidentally deelted the script16:04
meceMohammadAG, err. no. not seriously. Your gunbelt of batteries talk just reminded me of that.16:04
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DocScrutinizerooh f*********ck16:05
SpeedEvilMiXu-: starting maemo mapper brings up the GPS16:05
MiXu-Might be an idea worth developing16:05
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SpeedEvilMiXu-: then you kill it a little bit later, and read the current possition from gcong16:05
SpeedEvilgetting a couple of tiles from openstreetmap is then quite easy16:05
lirakisI do wish there was a good google maps app.... its really, almost pointless to work with ovi ... they are light years behind16:05
meceDocScrutinizer, what the f********ck is up?16:05
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DocScrutinizeralmost as cute as a torchlight app creating a white screen with the help of 42MB libliq16:06
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DocScrutinizerlive wallpapers :-(16:06
lcuki reduced the size, its 41mb now16:06
MiXu-DocScrutinizer: Well said :D16:06
wazdDocScrutinizer: what's wrong with them?16:07
lirakislcuk the widget would be for quick reference, and basically keeping your location up to date - so if you tapped on it, it would load the "real" maps app with your location already populated -hopefully making it start quite quickly since it doesnt have to get a lock16:07
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MohammadAGwazd, he hates live trees16:07
wazdMohammadAG: ah, never mind then :D16:08
lcuklirakis, then that already exists as a widget tho? as a live background sure its feasible tho16:08
lirakisbasically... if the current maps widget could go full screen on the lowest layer and not sleep..16:08
DocScrutinizer'while true; do $(( 331 / 113 )); done -> teawarmer app (much better than live wallpaper)16:08
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lcukDocScrooge - should we make you a pipe and slippers app? :D16:09
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lcuk(wouldnt be too bad actually)16:09
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meceDocScrutinizer, I'm so packaging that and putting that in extras devel.16:09
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cityLightshi all , can I limit the size the RSS client consumes in the N900?16:09
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cityLightsso it will remove old RSS to make room for new?16:09
meceDocScrutinizer, reqrite it so that is requires libliq too :)16:09
DocScrutinizermece: don't forget proper credit ;-P16:09
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meceActually, I have an even better idea. I create a random 300 or so Mb file and parse something from that. That way the download size is also epic.16:10
SpeedEvillirakis: that would use a ridiculous amount of power16:11
lirakisSpeedEvil: again.. with coarse navigation?16:11
SpeedEvillirakis: you need to poll every few mins16:11
lirakismy g1 can do it16:11
lirakisnot wallpaper ...16:11
lirakisbut i can leave maps open16:11
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SpeedEvilLira: how often does it update?16:12
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SpeedEvillirakis: polling every 60s - or when movement is sensed - isn't horribly hard16:12
lirakisSpeedEvil, not 100% sure, but it seems to look like its polling all the time16:12
lcukhahahahahaha @sjgadsby frals Nothing for 4.5 hours? C'mon, you can crank out a good six or seven new releases of fMMS in that block of time!16:13
SpeedEvilSome of it involves stuff the modem does.16:13
lirakisSpeedEvil, I wish that was built into maemo actually ... a location updater with a system setting that you could specify the frequency of updating coarse, and fine locations16:14
SpeedEvillirakis: this is not controlled by maemo. the phone runs the GPS - which is in some ways annoying16:14
lirakisSo that all apps could just reference the system16:14
tybollt"hildon-home is not responding - do you want to close the application"16:14
tybolltwhat - the - flying - fuck?16:14
Khertanyes !16:14
tybolltI never had that before?16:14
SpeedEvilhildon-home is the window manager basicallt?16:14
MohammadAGerr no16:15
MohammadAGthat's -desktop16:15
tybolltthe desktop16:15
tybolltbut seriously16:15
tybolltwhat the hell16:15
* DocScrutinizer moans at lirakis16:15
tybolltonly widget installed == om weather16:15
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fralsso appearently the security personel didnt appreciate me forgetting my bottle of water in my bag16:15
tybollt(yes, I didnät have this problem until I installed omweather today!)16:15
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tybolltfrals: dude16:16
lirakisyeah ... having had a G1 and nexus one, maps and location are the biggest wins android has over the n900.16:16
tybolltfrals: that's is no kidding16:16
lcuko_O frals the security person who passed me through gave me a withering look as i forgot it and then laughed :D16:16
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lcukhaving to take big heavy boots off16:16
fralsthey said something which sounded v. rude in finnish first16:16
lcukim surprised the guards didnt have gasmasks16:16
tybolltin egypt In egypt two weeks ago it was more like "Got water bottle? I got AK47, you wanna try me?"16:17
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fralswhen i answered in english they were like "do you have a bottle in there" and i go "opsi, yeah just water, you can have it no worries"16:17
SpeedEviltybollt: the water bottle thing is ridiculous16:17
SpeedEviltybollt: especially given that if you're motivated, you could conceal one.16:17
fralsshe realised i wasnt a bomber i think because after that i got to go :p16:17
lirakisDocScrutinizer, checking it out16:17
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tybolltSpeedEvil: Sir, I do not fuck around w/ an egyptian dude pointing an AK47 at me :-)16:17
Anss|lolcation api?16:17
Anss|err.. i mean...16:18
tybolltSpeedEvil: but yes - I entirely agree w/ you.16:18
lirakisits kinda wonky that the core is c and the qt is c++ (shrug)16:18
fralsalso, easy to spot the swedes here16:18
fralseveryone one with a sony ericsson phone has been speaking swedish :D16:19
lirakisDocScrutinizer, so i see it "Shares" fixes via a signal - but is there any way to specify update increments?16:20
lirakisjust needed to keep reading16:20
lirakis... one momnet :P16:20
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lirakisSo, there is no built in location daemon in the system ?16:22
SpeedEvillirakis: yes - it's location proxy - and it shares it by dbus16:23
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SpeedEvillirakis: this talks to the cellphone - which runs the GPS16:23
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lirakisSpeedEvil, so... why on earth does OVI maps take so long to start up and get a fix?16:24
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lirakisand why on earth does it insist on using gps when i have gps disabled in my system settings16:25
SpeedEvillirakis: GPS disabled?16:25
lirakisSpeedEvil, b/c i live in NYC and i can never get a gps fix16:26
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lirakis... or rather.. i can rarely16:26
SpeedEvilhave you tried?16:26
lirakisummm.. yeah16:26
SpeedEvilIt will get a fix much more easily once it has once16:26
lirakisjust now i have started ovi maps (well .. 1min30sec. ago)16:26
tybolltso you want to get a GPS fix in ovi maps - with the gps turned off? You have an external GPS then?16:26
lirakisand its still hasnt gotten a "my location"16:27
lirakistybollt no .. i want ovi to use coordinates provided by coarse location16:27
SpeedEvilnetwork positioning isn't that great16:27
lirakisSpeedEvil, dude thats not the point16:27
lirakisits a lot better than nothing16:27
Anss|works for google maps16:27
tybolltyes it is pretty piss poor telling from my experimenting w/ googlers16:27
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lirakisand nothing is waht i get with gps16:27
tybolltanssi: define 'works' :)16:28
lirakistybollt i have a g1 and it works fantastic in nyc16:28
DocScrutinizerlirakis: there's a flaw in GPS stored data handling that renders GPS quite useless without assistence over internet16:28
Anss|it is faster to have16:28
lirakisi get pretty close to 1 block accuracy16:28
lirakisi want to get out of a subway... start up maps and have it read a coarse location in 5 seconds and show me where the heck i am16:28
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DocScrutinizerworks here, with GPRS/3G16:29
lirakisDocScrutinizer what works?16:29
DocScrutinizerfor the A-part in AGPS16:29
lcuklirakis, personally i want location whilst still in subway ;)16:29
Anss|lirakis, handy after drinking, day after ;)16:29
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DocScrutinizerlirakis: getting first fix in 10 seconds16:29
lirakisDocScrutinizer, assisted gps = coarse (cell location) ?16:30
SpeedEvilFor me cell positioning is ~3km off usually16:30
lcuknoobmonk3y, healthcheck gets course gps fix in about 10nanoseconds doesnt it?16:30
lirakisACWP ?16:30
lirakisSpeedEvil, .. well i live in manhattan where ... its accurate to a few hundred feet, and gps doesnt work in any part of midtown16:31
DocScrutinizerlirakis: Assistance is a couple of different measures called 'A', usually it means to get a coarse position by other means plus the ephem&alm data over internet rather than over sat16:31
tybolltlirakis: that's funny, why dun GPS work?16:31
lcukbig building fsck with locks16:31
tybolltlirakis: all the tall buildings?16:31
Anss|cell accuracy depends of the shade areas, it is just triangular calculation.16:31
lirakistybollt,  lots of really tall buildings16:31
zaheerma few hundred storey buildings means you can't even see the sky16:31
lirakisDocScrutinizer, i have 3 g and data16:32
lirakiscurrently ... 3.5 g16:32
DocScrutinizerlirakis: the coarse position needs an accuracy of ~ a few 100km, to give GPS an idea which sats are in vicinity16:32
lirakisstarting maps now16:32
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lirakisDocScrutinizer,  im saying i dont want to use any gps16:32
DocScrutinizerso why do you use it then?16:33
lirakisDocScrutinizer, blarhg!16:33
SpeedEvillirakis: have you tried the gps? And made sure it doesn't in fact get a lock - outside?16:33
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SpeedEvil(with cell assistance turned on)16:33
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lirakisDocScrutinizer, i cant get gps signal ... yes .. i have tried.16:33
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lirakisDocScrutinizer, on my old POS blacberry 8700 i could go to maps and it would use cell triangualtion to show me where i am16:34
DocScrutinizerlirakis: I really don't get it what's your issue then? want GPS without GPS, or what?16:34
lirakisDocScrutinizer, do you consider cellular positioning gps?16:34
DocScrutinizerlirakis: there's NO SUCH THING like cell triangulation16:34
lcuksure there is, they use it in CSI all the time16:35
lirakisDocScrutinizer, android phones, and my old blackberry (which did not even have gps)  are able to give me my location16:35
DocScrutinizerlirakis: mompls16:35
lirakisDocScrutinizer triangulation was a silly description ... "device is located based on cellular base station to which device is registered"16:35
lirakis"Assisted Complementary Wireless Positioning:"16:36
noobmonk3ylcuk:  yes appx16:36
lirakisi want to use that ... ONLY to get a general idea of were the F i am16:36
lcuklirakis, install HealthCheck16:36
noobmonk3ythe course one is within 2km ish16:36
lcukjust see how it does for getting rough position16:36
DocScrutinizerlirakis: I won't repeat myself. Take a pointer instead :
noobmonk3ytested it across the Uk and for me has always been within 500m16:36
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DocScrutinizerlirakis: you're probably talking about
lirakisDocScrutinizer so what ? are you saying that is not a valid method of providing location?16:37
lirakisDocScrutinizer, NO I AM NOT16:37
lirakisDocScrutinizer, have you used a G1 ?16:38
DocScrutinizerno such crap here16:38
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SpeedEvilAs I understand it the positioning the G1 gets is fed to it by the network16:38
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fragmentlirakis: afaik there is a bug in the current version. you need to have a data connection open or it is nearly impossible to get a fix16:38
SpeedEvilAs a service.16:38
lirakisDocScrutinizer, well "such crap" does a far better job at providing location.  and it does it without any gps16:39
lirakisfragment, i have a data connection16:39
DocScrutinizerfragment: I mentione4d that before16:39
fragmentoh ok16:39
MohammadAGwhen you buy an android, you sell your soul to google16:39
SpeedEvilSo, without the cooperation of the network - you can't get that sort of fix.16:39
lirakisMohammadAG, i had a G1 before the n900 came out16:39
lirakis... now i have an n90016:39
lirakisi had an n810 before my g116:39
lirakisall im saying is OVI maps, and the n900 are so freakin stone age as far as maps and location goes its disturbing16:40
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lirakisnot being able to start up a maps app and have an INSTANT fix ... is silly16:40
MohammadAGno device gets an instant fix16:40
MohammadAGwithout s16:40
lirakisinstant meaning 2/3 seconds or less16:40
MohammadAGa data connection16:40
ccookeMohammadAG: it's entirely possible to buy an android phone and not sell your soul to google... my previous phone was an htc magic, and I'm not ruling out buying an android device in the next few months (quite possibly a tablet...)16:40
MohammadAGccooke, they do everything w/o asking you16:41
MohammadAGsadly sony's pulling the same stunt on the ps316:41
andre__lirakis, in that case you should probably also always have some satellites with you when you want to use the N900's GPS? which existing device can get a fix in 3secs?16:41
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ccookeMohammadAG: "Everything" in this case being...?16:41
MohammadAGlocation gathering16:42
lirakisandre__ the g116:42
MohammadAGread the privacy policy :)16:42
lirakisandre__ using cell bassed location16:42
chem|stccooke: what you are suffering from is called 'stockholm syndrome'16:42
rlinfatiHi, how i can create a custom emmc image ?16:42
nid0lirakis: dunno about you, but maps gives me a coarse position within about 3 seconds of loading16:42
andre__hmm. I should borrow the G1 from a friend again it seems then :)16:42
ccookeMohammadAG: ... er... all of those explicitly requited consent when *I* was using the phone.16:42
lirakisnid0,  ill try rebooting this thing ... its not giving me !@#$^16:42
DocScrutinizerlirakis: please get your facts sorted before messing up the channel here16:42
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ccookechem|st: ... okay, now I have to laugh at you :-)16:43
MohammadAGccooke, how did the droid fix itself?16:43
MohammadAGchrome looks different on my laptop each day/week/month16:43
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lirakisDocScrutinizer, i dont think you can discount properties of a device you have never used16:43
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ccookeMohammadAG: I have no idea what you mean by it fixing itself?16:43
* zaheerm has a g1 also16:43
DocScrutinizerI CAN!16:43
zaheermand n900 gets a fix quicker than g116:44
DocScrutinizeryou NEVER get a GPS fix in 2 sec16:44
chem|stccooke: at me? I am not trolling around here stating facts that are proof of missing intelligence16:44
MohammadAGccooke, idk, read about it on engadget16:44
lirakisDocScrutinizer holy crap dude16:44
lirakisi dont want to use gps16:44
lirakishow many times do i have to say that16:44
achipaDocScrutinizer: technically, that is not what he requested16:44
DocScrutinizerso please STFU16:44
* MohammadAG gets a lock in 10-15 seconds, with AGPS16:44
Anss|cell based location was some years ago forbidden due terrorist threat afaik16:44
MohammadAGpossibly 3016:44
MohammadAGthe other 15 are part of maps loading16:44
achipathere could be tricks to improve lock speeds16:45
ccookechem|st: ... so... stating that you don't "sell your soul to google" just because you buy an android phone is... trolling, and proof of missing intelligence?16:45
tybolltthe problem is when you're abroad16:45
chem|stccooke: but if I have to choose who to sell my soul to and would be forced to pick government or google I would pick google16:45
tybolltthen using AGPS is too expensive16:45
achipaof course, all of them cheating, but still16:45
lirakisrebooting phone  to see how it works after taht16:45
ccookechem|st: now, if I were to want to put an *entirely unjustified* label onto you, I'd be very happy to label you a victim of Amiga Persecution Syndrome :-)16:45
chem|stccooke: I meant laugh at someone else who does16:45
tybolltchem|st: there are rules as to what govt can do w/ your soul. There are no rules for what googles can do w/ it.16:46
Corsacha there, I remember my intent bug report. It's annoying that you can't say “don't try to connect *any* data connection”16:46
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chem|sttybollt: true but the government bends the rules... with google I at least know what will run over me16:47
lirakisso i rebooted ... started ovi (gps is disabled) and it says downloading data/looking for gps16:47
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chem|stccooke: never had an amiga...16:47
ShadowJKovi maps isn't useful for obtaining gps fix, especially not without agps16:47
frals(not read all backlog, but someone is expecting a gps fix without using gps?)16:47
ccookeThere are laws about what Google can do, too. For a start, the UK and Europe have strong data protection laws.16:47
lirakisi get no little red dot that shows me "my location"16:47
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tybolltchem|st: that google will run you over, break, turn, run you over again, ad inifinitum16:48
chem|stfrals: I think so... I will try to once I figure out how it works...16:48
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fralsinteresting concept to say the least16:49
lirakistybollt, yeah .. i ditched the g1 when they stopped commiting kernel chanegs16:49
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: also - some GPSs can indeed lock in 2s. Not cold - but warm.16:49
chem|sttybollt: yes, with the gov I expect the leave me running with a tracking device and a hidden cam in my eye16:49
tybolltlirakis: why did they?16:49
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: we're talking bout TTFF though16:49
ccookechem|st: An amusing label attached to a bunch of Amiga fans (but could also have been used on some of the OS/2 diehards, who believed that it must have been a *conspiracy* that killed off their beloved platform16:49
chem|stccooke: nice ;)16:50
DocScrutinizerand 10..15s for TTFF is roundabout as good as it gets16:50
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achipaSpeedEvil: it's all the question of how much do you want to cheat with GPS data. Like turning it on once in a while to have your almanach up to date or avoiding the fix to get cold16:50
ccookechem|st: and not, say (in the case of Amiga), Commodore being utterly shite at marketing and the prevalence of pirate games :-)16:50
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lirakistybollt, i think they just maintain their own repository instead of keeping a branch on the kernel tree16:50
Anss|ccooke, i think it was just *piracy that killed beloved amiga :)16:51
ccookeAnss|: certainly it was the murder weapon ;-)16:51
chem|stccooke: I love those iFans, keep me smiling :)16:51
* ShadowJK should go outside and see how fast he gets a fix with N900 and no network connectivity16:51
hrwAnss|: there was few more reasons16:51
DocScrutinizerachipa: yes, or use A16:51
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lirakisany how .. the n900 is definitely not as polished, and i question nokia with the meego thing... im willing to make sacrifices to keep "open" but... you know.. some stuff bugs me... thats all16:52
ccookeAnss|: but Commodore's complete... lack of an ability to deal with the market was a big part of it, really.16:52
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chem|stShadowJK: should I try right now? in office? my last fix was about 60km away from here...16:52
achipaalso, a trick would be to presume last fix, or, even simpler, to start GPS *before* Ovi maps starts loading16:52
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Anss|...and they did not put fpu/mmu to a120016:53
achipausually I get a fix when I want to geotag in less time than it takes Ovi maps to start up16:53
chem|stShadowJK: maps starting16:53
ShadowJKThe description of the "Network Positioning" makes it sound like it needs to either have the location in cache, or be able to talk to a server to ask "where abouts is CellID 0xAECD?"16:53
ShadowJKI wouldn't try it indoors even with agps ;P16:53
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ccookeTo be more serious: In every case of private information passing from me to google on the Android phone, there was a clear statement of the terms and conditions that I had to accept for the service. Some of those I accepted, some I didn't, but the choice was always there.16:54
DocScrutinizerbtw alm / ephem (one of both) not needed with really decent GPS chips with a _huge_ number of corellators to scan all possible sats on all possible trajectories same time concurrently. This is what'll give you TTFF of 15s without A16:54
ccookeI tend not to mind giving away private information in exchange for something, as long as what I receive is valuable. Possibly this is because I know I have a legal recourse, should I decide to withdraw my consent.16:54
chem|stShadowJK: it downloads the current cache from a stationary gps near by16:54
DocScrutinizeras each sat sends it's own orbit data every few seconds16:55
ShadowJKwtf @ "stationary gps"16:55
chem|stShadowJK: I had it working without networkconnection last time I checked, right from my desk16:55
ShadowJKI guess you were lucky :P16:55
lcukchem|st, do you commute to ISS or just resident there?16:55
ShadowJKOr the N900 GPS is really really good getting unassisted fix inside buildings...16:56
DocScrutinizerso: scan 512000 possible 'channels' concurrently, download actual position and vector off of 3 of them -> fix in 15sec16:56
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chem|stlcuk: still eating my liquid pancakes....16:56
ccookeShadowJK: it's not bad, you know. Better than most phone gps units I've used, I have to say16:56
hrwcs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 is fremantle compiler?16:56
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X-Fadehrw: yes16:57
ccookeI remember it was getting the right building almost all the time at wessergasfabrik, which my HTC magic couldn't do at all16:57
DocScrutinizerthen download athmospheric correction data during next 5 minutes and get a *accurate* fix after 5 min16:58
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DocScrutinizerand I'm sure there are real cracks for GPS here in this chan, relative noob speaking here16:59
Corsacthe test location gui is really nice to investigate GPS issues16:59
tybolltdoc: cracks for GPS?16:59
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: please check  --  the last good fix is cached in liblocation17:01
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smharI tested an N900 in a phone shop today and noticed that many things -in the software- are very basic for a smart phone, even and entry level one. for instance there are only 2 profiles, silent and general?! did I miss something?17:01
hrw~curse sbox17:01
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, sbox !17:01
MiXu-smhar: No you didn't. There are only two.17:02
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nid0the main thing you missed is that the n900 is a tablet with really basic phone functionality17:02
DocScrutinizersmhar: yes, you missed it's not a smartphone. And you missed e.g. tweakr adding profiles17:02
nid0the second thing you missed is the tweakr application that lets you add more profiles17:02
hrwDocScrutinizer: or profilesx17:02
chem|stDocScrutinizer: my last fix is 9 days about 60km from here...17:02
chem|stso it might take up to 12 min17:02
MiXu-I hate to say it, but tweakr profile adding sucks monkey balls.17:03
ccookenid0: I disagree, actually. It's the nicest touchscreen phone I've used - and yes, that includes several of the obvious ones.17:03
hrwsmhar: if you want a phone - avoid n90017:03
MiXu-Unless it's changed lately.17:03
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nid0purely as a phone, i'd choose pretty much any phone over an n90017:03
chem|stwe will see... the maps app stopped looking again so I stopped and turned the location testing stuff on with gps only17:03
hrwsmhar: it you want expensive toy with glued phone then consider n90017:03
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: see ? :-)17:04
chem|stsee what?17:04
MiXu-I can live with two profiles.17:04
ShadowJKthat was fast for just gps17:04
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chem|stthat was now about 8-9 minutes and that is fair enough17:05
DocScrutinizerAgps I suppose17:05
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chem|stShadowJK: well fast it might take up to 12 minutes but not longer17:05
X-Fadehrw: Did you activate your newly created target?17:05
ShadowJKYou know the menus for the "profiles" stuff on my previous "smart phones" have been so confusing I've essentially only used "silent" and "not silent" before anyway :/17:05
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hrwX-Fade: I edited existing not created new one17:05
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hrwX-Fade: and after edit I landed in it17:06
chem|stI have now 7 satelites at view and 4-5 in use17:06
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MohammadAGShadowJK, LOL same here17:06
ccookeShadowJK: I've found the bother of switching profile so annoying I only used the switch to silent, too17:06
hrw[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/pkg/my-extras/mdbus2-2.0.0] > which dpkg17:06
MiXu-I'd like to have an easy way to adjust the loudness of ringtones. That's all I'd need.17:06
hrw[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/pkg/my-extras/mdbus2-2.0.0] > dpkg --version17:06
hrwDebian `dpkg' package management program version (i386).17:06
chem|stShadowJK: MohammadAG I second that17:06
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chem|stmy sony had a hotbutton to switch silent and current...17:07
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X-Fadehrw: and no gcc?17:07
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MohammadAGi only used general silent and vibra17:07
smharhrw, ouch17:07
hrw[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/pkg/my-extras/mdbus2-2.0.0] > gcc --version17:07
hrwsbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc (GCC) 4.2.117:07
MohammadAGthe N900 has a tickbox for vibra so...17:07
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MiXu-The thing about Tweakr profiles that bothered me was that it essentially adds complexity to managing profiles.17:07
DocScrutinizerTTFF after reflashing (virgin fix): ~30sec indoors17:08
ccookeI mean, what are the *serious* features missing on the n900? MMS is controversial, but a goodly portion of people have said they don't need it. Voice dialing is... situational dependant, at best. Anything else?17:08
hrwsmhar: if you want a nokia phone - grab anything with S4017:08
MiXu-instead of two places to change profiles, there are three after installing tweakr17:08
DocScrutinizer~50m jumpy17:08
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chem|stccooke: mms is available17:08
ag0nyccooke: RSap...definately!17:08
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hrwccooke: video call, voice dial, one hand portrait17:08
ccooke(I mean, I've been assuming there must *be* missing features, but never been quite sure what they meant)17:08
ccookechem|st: I mentioned that :-)17:08
MiXu-ccooke: SyncML is missing natively, but there's an app for it.17:08
hrwccooke: working calendar etc17:08
chem|stvoice dialing isnt missing for me, no phone did like I wanted it to do so screw voice dialing17:09
ccookevideo call I'll give you.17:09
nid0ccooke, not really. more than "holy shit it doesnt have a ****" its more "holy shit, the **** on this thing is well basic"17:09
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ccookeWhat's wrong with the calendar?17:09
chem|stmissing stuff is calDAV17:09
nid0and that applies to pretty much everything phone related17:09
smharhrw, well... I do not think phone requirements are big to satisfy17:09
nid0particularly the shitty calendar17:09
MiXu-I've had no problems with the calendar17:09
chem|stproper syncing of more than one calendar17:09
Anss|battery that don't dry out without using17:09
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ccookeI've used the calendar a lot... not had any trouble.17:10
nid0yeah, it works, it's just well basic17:10
MiXu-Anss|: Lol. I'd like to see the phone that doesn't have that problem ;)17:10
DocScrutinizernow ~<10m to the point17:10
hrwccooke: try to import more advanced calendar entries...17:10
MiXu-Or I have. It has a wire that goes to a wall ;)17:10
hrwbug 693317:10
povbotBug Alarm times are shown wrong17:10
chem|stmissing PGP/GPG mime for modest17:10
nid0the only real biggie for me is the lack of a proper office suite17:10
nid0and the shite email client17:10
hrwmissing LOT of features for modest you mean?17:10
ccookehrw: hmm. Possibly my workplace doesn't use anything so advanced; it's imported all my meetings with no trouble17:11
chem|stnid0: true17:11
MiXu-nid0: Have you tried the documents to go or whatnot?17:11
DocScrutinizerthat's been with internet (over wifi) and assistance enabled17:11
hrwcalendar is joke, mail is joke17:11
nid0yeah, docs to go is just a viewer though, and only a free trial.17:11
hrwccooke: check bug 6933 which I told before17:11
chem|stat least a free doc-viewer would help17:11
ZogG watch the speed and size =)17:11
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nid0losing my e90's office suite is kinda annoying for me17:12
ccookehrw: out of interest... what do you *like* about Maemo?17:12
MohammadAG20s lock17:12
chem|sthrw: note joke but not what it could be, biggest fault is to put media cal and mail into non-free17:12
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: let's bash all NYC residents claiming GPS doesn't work ;-)17:13
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hrwchem|st: modest is free17:13
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, hmm, just disabled all gps, and cold rebooted (not a full reboot), it gets a lock in 13s17:14
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hrwccooke: it is one step closer to my dream phone then my previous one17:14
MohammadAGgive or take a second17:14
ccookehrw: *grin* Good reason17:14
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: the location data cache won't get void by booting17:15
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, how do I void them :)17:15
MohammadAGother than reflashing, plehehehease...17:15
smharhrw, what else -phone wise- is lacking in N900?17:15
hrwccooke: I can hack some code for it, it has quite good IM integration (if you avoid twitter and facebook plugins), browser suxx less then s60 one but needs more work to replace opera mini17:15
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ask SpeedEvil - he knows a tool to delete the file/whatever17:15
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, ?17:15
MiXu-Prioritization for phone calls isn't as good as on Symbian.17:15
hrwsmhar: phone wise as 'phone functionality' or as 'n900 to be used for phone'?17:16
ccookehrw: ugh, I can't stand opera mini. But to each their own :-)17:16
* frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout17:16
MiXu-It can take a long time for call to start if there's heavy loa´d17:16
chem|stsmhar: nothing, I can call I can fwd I can reject send texts and mms...17:16
hrwccooke: operamini has awesoe reflow of text17:16
DisconnectMiXu-: fwiw its still better than g1 when it was equally young. its only recently (1.6) that it could reliably receive calls while doing other things (eg browser or maps)17:16
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ccookehrw: possibly, but every time I've used it I've hated it. Something in the interface just *doesn't click*.17:17
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smharhrw, n900 to be used for phone17:17
ccookesmhar: see, the thing is... the n900 is a *massive* improvement *as a phone* over my Android HTC Magic.17:17
* Disconnect wants a browser that works in portrait. srsly. no weird offscreen grey horiz scroll 'wobble' (when there's no horiz-scroll content, LOCK TO VERTICAL..) and no missing close buttons, no need to say "reflow" on every single window, etc...17:17
Disconnectccooke: what ver was the magic running? see above re phone issues in android :)17:18
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ccookeDisconnect: 1.5 IIRC17:18
ccookehmm. Maybe not. It was cupcake. *goes to check which version number that was*17:19
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nid0cupcake is 1.517:19
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hrwsmhar: missing (compared to 1€ phones): video calls, voice dialing (especially during car driving), conf calls (or I did not found how to make such in maemo5)17:19
smharccooke, never tried HTC Magic and did not like the Android17:19
ccookeDisconnect: well, yes. I haven't used it since day 1 of the last Maemo summit :-)17:20
hrwsmhar: thats from pure phone stuff17:20
Disconnectccooke: :)17:20
ccookesmhar: I liked the system quite a bit, actually.17:20
ccookebut the big problems with it: The dialing pad was slow to react and... just a little unpleasant to use.17:20
nid0i've never even noticed the lack of voice dialling, <3 handsfree in my car17:20
ccookewhen a phone call was active, bringing up the number pad required effort17:20
Disconnectccooke: you were running stock upstream image?17:21
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ccookeand the phone kept locking during the call, so sometimes I'd have to unlock to get to the pad, which left my finger over a button, so I ended up pressing a button...17:21
ccookeDisconnect: yes.17:21
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DocScrutinizerhrw: (conf) that's probably because conf calls over gsm are rarely found feature with european carriers17:21
nid0they are?17:22
smharccooke, I have a programmer friend that claimed that to do a simple 'Hello World" in Android he needed pages and pages of Reading AND Coding17:22
Disconnectyah. it got a lot better with 1.6, although realistically it wasn't as convenient as n900 (or iphone or..) until 2.0, and most of that is cuz 2.0 hw comes with proximity sensors17:22
ccookeon the n900... the dialing pad is instant. Getting access to the number pad or toggling speaker phone - two of the biggest functions I use when calling - are nice big buttons that react instantly.17:22
nid0multiway calling in the uk hasnt been anything special for years17:22
Disconnectsmhar: then he lied, the tutorial for hello world is something like 1.5 pages :)17:22
hrwawaiting calls suxx on n90017:22
ccookethe interface of the n900 when making a phone call is beautifully streamlined. It does the job and it makes all the important functions easy to access.17:23
ccookeThat's good design.17:23
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Disconnectsmhar: the issue is when you get into xml layouts. you have to spend a lot of time thinking and pondering, its a real pita. it works (kinda) and scales between devices (kinda) but..17:23
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ccookehrw: ... how so? It's really rather good.17:23
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ccookeI'd say Maemo would be better if it had a persistent message notification like Android has, sure17:24
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ccookebut other than that...17:24
nid0a notification all the time when there's messages you havent seen?17:24
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fralsthe task switcher being lit up and the notification led isnt clear enough?17:25
nid0apparently not17:25
nid0to me that works perfectly17:25
nid0but "no message notification on n900" seems a common complaint17:25
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nid0never really been sure why17:25
DocScrutinizeridiots to be found everywhere17:26
ccookefrals: I'd love an icon or two to tell you what sort of things were waiting, how many...17:26
Disconnecti really don't understand what maemo's ui team was thinking. (esp browser) landscape - waste tons and tons of space by having a top bar, but don't do anything useful with it. (bonus, when you get a notification in that tiny tiny square you prolly can't find it by clicking it..) portrait, lose the bar and make you rotate back to switch tasks, close windows, etc..17:26
ccookeit could certainly be done easily enough.17:27
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smharhrw, ok.. are the limitation in N900 phone capabilities software related or hardware deficiencies?17:27
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valdynsmhar: thats a silly question17:27
DocScrutinizerDisconnect: nobody needs portrait mode, and it's absolutely no official feature for microb17:27
Disconnectnid0: a basic device feature (long before android) is "tell me what I missed/what has happened. let me manage them in random order, and don't lose them until i say so" .. n900 fails that badly..17:28
ccookeDisconnect: how so? They appear nicely in the task list17:28
DisconnectDocScrutinizer: my sarcasm detector is trembling. or are you going to seriously try to tell me that google reader (and other mobile webpages) are better in landscape..?17:28
smharvaldyn, well maybe, I am not really sure, but I know that the silliest question is the one not asked :-)17:28
valdynDisconnect: the top bar can be switched off, so why is that a problem?17:28
DocScrutinizergoogle reader - what's that?17:28
Disconnectvaldyn: because now you can't get out of it without turning it back on.17:29
valdynDisconnect: *I* can17:29
nid0yes you can17:29
nid0but thats beside the point I guess17:29
valdynDisconnect: ctrl-backspace17:29
Disconnectccooke: if you get 2 emails (esp in 2 accounts), the task list says "@ email from {foo bar}" and clicking it (task list -and- notifications in one?? sigh) takes you to a random account.17:29
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ZogGDocScrutinizer it is, cause it's inside it. and would be official with pr1.217:29
* chem|st puts a ObamAEd flag on his hat17:30
ccookeDisconnect: ah, that's definitely buggy behaviour17:30
smharvaldyn, I meant if there are software related... no big deal here..  'enhancement' may appear in the next release, but if there is something in the hardware no able to handle that.. then that is it17:30
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Disconnect"What is happening now", "What did I miss" and/or "what is pending" are different tasks. i have a blinking light right now, lets see what it says... (neat, it failed to autolock) ok "@ 18 30 mins ago Tiger Auto Auditor" .. click it.. it shows my list of accounts.17:31
Disconnectno indication as to which has new messages, just account and sync time.17:31
valdynsmhar: if the n900 had some operating system like amiga os  then it would be orders of magnitudes faster in some areas17:31
valdynsmhar: but such an os is insanely hard to manage with17:31
smharvaldyn, something similar to the usb host thing... as I read once that it is disabled by Nokia at the hardware level.. not sure about this info though17:31
fralsDisconnect: accounts with new messages are highlighted arent they?17:31
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Disconnectfrals: both are highlighted. how do i find the message it just showed me..?17:32
DocScrutinizersmhar: almost (aor probably) all of them are sw17:32
DocScrutinizersmhar: the modem/phone hw seems kinda ok17:32
smharvaldyn, well maybe after all there is hope in meego then :-)17:33
chem|stsmhar: the usb-host thing seems to be another issue17:33
DocScrutinizersmhar: It even knows how to transfer data during calls. Few modems know how to do that17:33
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fralsdunno, ive never had a problem knowing which account got the email judging by the subject so couldnt tell you17:33
DisconnectDocScrutinizer: every tethered gsm phone (w/ 3g) i've ever had can do that :)17:33
fralsbut if both are highlighted you got new messages in both so id assume youd be interested in both and just check17:33
DocScrutinizerDisconnect: I'm referring to 2G though17:34
DocScrutinizerfor 3G it's a mandatory feature iirc17:34
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DisconnectDocScrutinizer: i was under the impression that you -can't- transfer data during a voice call on 2g. no matter how fancy it is.17:34
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DocScrutinizerDisconnect: nope, incorrect. There's a extension to handle that17:34
DocScrutinizerand N900 has that extension17:35
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cehtehbut carriers dont seem to like it17:35
DisconnectDocScrutinizer: yah does it actually work with real carriers?17:36
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DocScrutinizerI'd guess carriers don't even realize when it's happening17:36
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Disconnecthmm. got a link to the extension? so far everything i've seen on gsm requires -lots- of carrier support. esp channel allocation.17:36
DocScrutinizeras it's mainly a limitation of the modem hw not being able to switch rapidly between channels17:37
DocScrutinizerDisconnect: sorry I'm talking out of my ass, never looked into the details17:37
Disconnectyah thats what i suspected ;)17:38
DocScrutinizerI just got a basic idea about how GSM/GPRS works17:39
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: 2G extensions made it possible and that is a feature both need the client and the carrier17:40
MiXu-How do I get rid of the MMS APN that fMMS created? :P17:40
Disconnectmost modems (well, most phones anyway) will drop the data connection as soon as the transfer stops (eg page loads) and don't use keepalives, so they can receive calls/sms/etc between pages. saves some user annoyance ("whenever i open safari my phone stops receiving calls")17:40
MiXu-I mean is there a UI way to do it :)17:40
DocScrutinizerand my guess is GPRS is allocating a certain number of timeslices/'channels', and voice is using a separate additional one17:40
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DisconnectDocScrutinizer: er, channels and timeslices are different. there is an extension that basically gives half-rate voice and half-rate data, but srsly - half-rate edge data is down in the rfc1149 range...17:42
hrwX-Fade: any ideas?17:42
DocScrutinizerDisconnect: I know the diff tween channels and timeslices17:43
fralsMiXu-: no, gconftool would be your friend here17:43
fralsthere are instructions somewhere in the fmms thread17:43
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valdynMiXu-: latest fmmms just hides that apn17:46
DisconnectDocScrutinizer: actually, if this is what you meant by the gsm extension, you're half right. there is an extension (and at least one carrier actually uses it) to piggyback notification flags on the data channel. can't do both, but you can say "hey! stop data for a sec, got something important" -
DocScrutinizer• • Dual Transfer Mode (DTM) support for simultaneous voice and packet data connection in GSM/EDGE17:47
DocScrutinizernetworks. Simple class A, multi slot class 32, max speed DL/UL: 296/177.6 kbits/s17:47
DocScrutinizer• GPRS class A, multi slot class 32 (Max Sum 6), max speed DL/UL= 107/64.2 kbits/s17:47
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Disconnectanything that says "class a" is using 2 different hardware radios. srsly. you don't want that, esp in a mobile device..17:48
DocScrutinizer(from RX51-L3/4 service manual)17:48
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DocScrutinizernevertheless we *got* it17:48
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DocScrutinizerthat's RX51 aka N900 specs, as of Nokia official service manual17:49
DocScrutinizerpage 18 of 20217:50
ZogGbut we lost faith in nokia, i'm gonna write new topic about it =))))))17:50
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DocScrutinizerso now tell me I'm wrong17:50
crashanddie_'night all17:51
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DocScrutinizern8 crashy17:51
chem|stn8 crashanddie17:51
crashanddie_or is that with the aussie accent?17:52
chem|stwith the ozzy accent17:52
DocScrutinizernoth bavarian aussie accent ;-)17:52
DocScrutinizernorth even17:52
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Disconnecti -really- doubt the n900 has 2 radios. "simple class a" may be code for "half-rate voice and half-rate data" (see above)17:53
chem|stI'd say naight like west yorkshire accent17:53
Disconnect(sorry, got eaten by life briefly)17:53
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chem|stDisconnect: I guess it got 4 at least17:54
Disconnectchem|st: 4 gsm radios? srsly?17:54
* Disconnect would guess that thats kinda a dumbass assumption ;)17:54
DocScrutinizerDisconnect: or it's a timesharing scheme as suggested by me before17:54
chem|st2gsm 1wifi 1fm17:54
Disconnectchem|st: ok. explain to me what its gonna do with 2 gsm radios. (3g is a superset of edge/etc. so thats one radio. where's the other?)17:55
* DocScrutinizer wonders what 14WAAKH22 might mean in Finland17:56
KhertanOvi Store will be accepting applications created with the Nokia Qt SDK in the near future. Stay tuned for more announcements and instructions on submitting. <<<< interesting ...17:57
Terje_DocScrutinizer, same as everywhere in world?17:57
DisconnectDocScrutinizer: yah. dtm - thats the 'half-rate' thing i was talking about (i got thrown by the "simple a" description)17:57
chem|stthought it got two antenas on two radios, but I could be wrong as always17:57
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Disconnectchem|st: ok. why?17:58
chem|stthats what I remember from service manual... but it could be another device17:59
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DocScrutinizerGSM/UMTS has _one_ antenna17:59
DocScrutinizerthen there's BT/WiFi, GPS, FM-TX, (fm-rx, well kinda)...18:00
Disconnectcell antenna, gps antenna, not seeing anything for the wifi or fm but still looking18:00
X-Fadehrw: I have this in my sbdmock setup: config_opts['cputransparency-method'] = 'qemu-arm-sb'18:00
DocScrutinizerso you got 4 internal plus one plugin antennae18:01
DocScrutinizerplugin one aka headset18:01
hrwX-Fade: what is sbdmock?18:02
DocScrutinizerschematics help a lot ;-P18:02
X-Fadehrw: I'll not complicate matters for you by explaining that ;)18:02
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hrwX-Fade: I think that I will just gain 15GB by removing maemosdk as it does not work now D:18:05
X-Fadehrw: Did you have a working scratchbox setup?18:05
X-FadeThen it should really be a one line change and you are done.18:06
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DocScrutinizerDisconnect: (3G superset of EDGE) really?18:09
hrwX-Fade: when I run 'scratchbox' I am inside of it18:09
hrwX-Fade: so which change?18:10
DocScrutinizerDisconnect: aiui GSM==TDMA, 3G==WCDMA18:10
hrwX-Fade: and?18:10
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DisconnectDocScrutinizer: since you used wikipedia earlier ;) "While the GSM EDGE standard also fulfils the IMT-2000 specification, EDGE phones are typically not branded 3G"18:11
X-Fadechange the target config, replace debian-etch (or lenny) by debian-squeeze.18:11
hrwX-Fade: did that 3 times18:11
X-FadeDid you actually install it before that?18:11
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X-FadeOutside scratchbox?18:11
DocScrutinizerDisconnect: err, uhuh18:12
hrwX-Fade: I first installed outside sbox18:12
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* noobmonk3y omg's18:12
X-Fadehrw: The errors you see have nothing to do with the thing you changed.18:12
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hrwX-Fade: and dpkg in fremantle-armel sbox is from squeeze18:12
* noobmonk3y just saw someone downloading PR1.2!18:12
* noobmonk3y realises it is not April 1st -
X-Fadenoobmonk3y: I do that all the time ;)18:12
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DisconnectDocScrutinizer: ..yep. even says it right on the cover page.18:13
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DisconnectIMT-2000: (The ITU definition of 3G Mobile) - IMT-DS (W-CDMA-FDD) - IMT-MC (cdma2000) - IMT-SC (EDGE) - IMT-TC (TD-SCDMA) - (W-CDMA-TDD) - IMT-FT (DECT)18:13
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MohammadAG_noobmonk3y, PR1.4 too :o18:14
* noobmonk3y grins yay!18:14
DocScrutinizerand how's that related to the question if we need a separate radia for 3G?18:14
* noobmonk3y starts the rumour "You need a separate radiator to use the N900"18:15
DocScrutinizerI'm using 3G as a synonym for UMTS here. I don't care about ITU defs18:15
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: ok we got a wcdma and a gsm receiver18:16
DisconnectDocScrutinizer: every radio module we looked at (few years back unfortunately) that did umts/3g had edge integrated.18:16
SpeedEvilnoobmonk3y: I installed this, and now my n900 won't boot18:17
DocScrutinizerfine. Still EDGE is TDMA18:17
chem|stits one chip I guess and one antena18:17
noobmonk3ySpeedEvil: - you need to wait for PR2.0 :( oh well18:18
hrwX-Fade: magic then18:19
ZogGOops! Google Chrome could not connect to talk.maemo.org18:20
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ZogGforum is down?18:21
ZogGwho did it?18:21
Khertanas usual :)18:21
ZogGbad bad boy18:21
nid0whatever gremlins take it down every day, I guess18:21
DocScrutinizerchem|st: I told it's one antenna18:21
DocScrutinizerchem|st: it's roundabout 5 chips though18:22
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ZogGwhen you'll get part for phones18:22
ZogGlike for laptops or desctops?18:22
achipanid0: not gremlins, daemons :)18:23
achipa(in all senses of the word)18:23
ZogGyou come to store and say : hey can i get this cpu for my phone? does my bla-bla-blah motherboard supoorts it?18:23
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nid0not anytime soon18:24
ZogGi don't think so18:24
ZogGnot like i described but anyway18:24
ZogGit would be like laptops soon18:24
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ZogGwhen you actually can change parts and have different configurations18:25
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ZogGand than you get different oses as well =)18:25
chem|stits an ASIC with both GSM&WCDMA in it like BTHFM-ASIC has BT and FM18:25
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: yes.18:26
chem|stI would call those two asics 4 radios with 3 antenas18:26
DocScrutinizerchem|st: well, I don't see the point in arguing about that18:27
chem|stso we got 5 radios plus gps-rx and 4 +headset antenas18:27
DocScrutinizerchem|st: call it whatever you want. For details refer to the schematics and datasheets18:27
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Milo-hum, isn't there a way of changing the default view for the calendar?18:27
Milo-I don't like the agenda format18:28
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chem|stnah it was just the 'are you serious that we have 2 gsm' well we got one gsm and one wcdma...18:28
Milo-I would like to see a weekly or monthly calendar by default when I open the calendar.18:28
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MohammadAG_the N8 has OTG18:28
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zaheermsays it has18:28
MohammadAG_USB On The Go18:29
zaheermalso it says there is microusb and nokia 2mm charging ports18:29
DocScrutinizerthe question if a TDMA is implemented in an asic as a separate function block, or they just switch the WCDMA blocks to a different operation mode, that's quite uninetresting18:29
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DocScrutinizeranyway WCDMA isn't exactly a technical superset of TDMA18:30
chem|stwhy is it a symbian again18:30
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hrw[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > qemu18:32
hrw/scratchbox/tools/bin/qemu: No qemu binary found.18:32
hrwHave you installed & selected the CPU transparency devkit?18:32
hrwthat looks really strange18:33
X-Fadehrw: Did you install it in the host?18:33
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chem|stwhere do they put all that stuff?18:34
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X-Fadehrw: All packages are here:
hrwX-Fade: I found issue - when I selected squeeze devkit I did not selected qemu one too18:34
X-Fadehrw: ok, good.18:34
hrw~curse sbox anyway18:35
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, sbox anyway !18:35
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: for a specification POV it's probably most approriate to consider the device a blackbox and just see how many *independant* RF transmissions aka protocols it can send concurrently18:37
chem|stDocScrutinizer: true18:37
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hrwnewer version uploaded to builder18:41
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Stskeepswb javispedro18:42
DocScrutinizerchem|st: everything beyond is just a question of the particular hw implementation and the answer largely depends on the question you want to get answered. See e.g WiFi/BT, with coexistence - they share one freq and often one antenna, and it doesn't matter for anything outside the case if BT and WiFi share one transmitter ore are mixed together from two chips on one antenna or even use two antennae18:43
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Stskeepsjavispedro: does openvg require EGL?18:44
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javispedroStskeeps: theoretically, no. But on the PVR, yes...18:45
javispedro(an implementor could make their own EGL-like API -- see Apple)18:45
slonopotamusX-Fade: any plans to fix autocleaner? :)18:45
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Should be fixed.18:45
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Can you upload a newer version?18:45
Stskeepsjavispedro: but it's basically just an API for rendering to a buffer i guess?18:45
slonopotamusit strikes again :)
povbotBug 9902: Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel18:46
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Current one is a bit messed up and I don't have time to actually go and remove some things from the db.18:46
javispedroStskeeps: it's basically an API for "setting platform specific stuff up". Getting surfaces to render into, associate those into display devices or windows, ...18:46
Stskeepser, openvg i mean18:46
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X-Fadeslonopotamus: If you just increase the version number, it should be fine?18:48
Stskeepsegl i know what does :P18:48
javispedroStskeeps: yes18:48
Stskeepsjavispedro: just wondering if there' potential in trying to get qt working on top of the drivers so there's -some- worth :P18:48
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: how would you characterize MIMO? one radio with multiple antennae? or with one multi-element active antenna? or multiple one-antenna radios in one device?18:49
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DocScrutinizeror maybe just say it's MIMO ;-D18:50
slonopotamusX-Fade: will try increasing, ok.18:50
slonopotamusX-Fade: that another comment is from 24th april.18:50
javispedroStskeeps: doesn't sound like a bad idea --
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* RST38h moos at javispedro with intent18:52
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RST38hehlo, slonopotamus18:52
javispedrohello RST38h18:53
DocScrutinizerheh sflphone :-)18:53
* wazd kinda opened cycling season :)18:54
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: :P18:57
slonopotamusRST38h: hi18:57
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javispedroNo rotary dial. Less weight than a nomad. Lame.19:01
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RST38hMaybe you are supposed to rotate the iphone?19:01
RST38hHmmm...AllAboutSymbian claims N8 has got 640x360 screen. Lame.19:01
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* slonopotamus definitely likes latest xkcd comics on hdtv19:02
chem|stDocScrutinizer: "multiple transmit antennas are co-located at one transmitter"19:03
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: the question is if there are 2 transmitters and there are no matter if they use one or two antennas19:04
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Khertansomeone can explain why return key on n900 isn t equal to QtCore.Qt.Key_Return ?19:06
chem|stthe transmitters are boxed in ASICs, could be one could be two could be three ASICs doesn't matter19:06
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timeless_mbpTrizt: were you asking about broken identifer_strings_appearing_in_the_ui ?19:06
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timeless_mbpi just hit one today and will try to chase it down19:06
chem|stKhertan: it is equal to KP_Enter19:06
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fralsKhertan: its sending numpad_enter or such19:06
Khertanhum .... strange19:06
Khertanbut thx19:06
chem|stKhertan: if you want something recognize it look for KP_Enter19:07
Khertanqt the portable framework where everythings need to be refine by plateform ...19:07
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chem|stKhertan: but be aware that fakekey KP_Enter sends a KEY_Return19:08
fralswell they are different keys so... :P19:08
fralsyoud prolly be better off matching against both key_return and kp_enter19:08
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chem|stfrals: true19:08
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nid0non-removable battery in the n8.19:10
Trizttimeless_mbp; yeah, from the skype19:10
Trizttimeless_mbp; do you want it once more, the key name?19:11
uberdiskI'm trying to build a theme with the "Theming for Dummies" -guide. It builds okay, but files go into the root of "/usr/share/themes"... Not in a folder. What is the problem? :)19:11
uberdiskAnyone willing to help?19:11
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chem|stnid0: "Possibility to use capacitive stylus" I dont care gimme resistive19:11
Khertani m trying to understand how qt works19:12
MohammadAG_<nid0> non-removable battery in the n8.19:12
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nid0tbh, the n8 is looking like a smashing good phone overall though19:12
timeless_mbpi have it in logs19:12
timeless_mbpi have a simpler/easier to hit case which i'll use to chase the problem19:12
chem|stnid0: yes but missing two essential things19:12
nid0such as?19:12
Khertanis there a way to traps return in a QTextEdit without trapping anykeys, test if return then do your method19:13
Khertanas it s kinda slow to trap each key19:13
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Trizttimeless_mbp; good, but I keep the log until I see it's been fixed19:13
MohammadAG_nid0, right, it's a good phone, with a bad OS19:13
* timeless_mbp nods19:13
nid0not really. symbian gets far more stick than it deserves.19:14
chem|stnid0: a kbd and a resistive screen... and maemo19:14
nid0it may not be the new shiney thing, but it works, it works really well, and it's simple to use.19:14
nid0chem|st it's aimed as a media phone, keyboard's pointless, and most people want capacitive screens, because theyre generally much nicer as long as the ui's suitable19:15
lcukhow do far eastern folks enter text on capacitive screens?19:16
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Khertanalso how to make a widget similar to hildon.PannableArea in Qt ?19:17
chem|stnid0: well if Im not able to sketch properly I dont need it, the hdmi out is nice though, its an xpress-music successor though19:17
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Khertanwhat is the widget name ?19:17
lostinmirkwoodIs there a way to set the current n900 clipboard (copy/paste) through an ssh session?19:17
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lcukKhertan, open qt creator and look through the examples19:17
nid0ofc it is, its a £300 phone, at that price it's aimed strictly at midrange and it has an assload of top of the line features nonetheless19:17
lcuktheres many ways to skin a cat19:17
chem|stlcuk: chinese handwriting recognition....19:17
lcukchem|st, bit difficult if you are finger painting19:18
nid0i've just seen the gallery from it's camera, and that alone is a very good selling point19:18
chem|stlcuk: the kids learn to draw the chinese signs with their fingers first afaik19:18
lcukchem|st, ofc19:18
lcukbut then you evolve and use a pen/pencil :)19:18
lcuknid0, it looks very pretty19:18
lcukhow would it look with the 1000+ images ive got on my device19:19
Khertanlcuk : qtcreator not available on n90019:19
nid0lcuk: sorry?19:19
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Khertanand anyway if ki ask is because i ve found example in qtcreator19:19
nid0oh sorry I mean a gallery of images taken by the camera, not the device's image gallery19:19
lcuknid0, the video demo shown hasnt got many photos in it19:20
nid0dunno about a video demo, i just looked at
nid0it has a selection of full-size images from the camera19:20
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chem|stthis thing looks like the answer to sony's media phones19:21
MohammadAG_updated my PS319:23
RST38hHmmm those N8 photos are pretty damn decent for a cell phone19:23
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lcukagreed RST38h not bad quality at all19:23
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nid0I wonder what the reasoning is for the nonremovable battery though19:27
Triztmore like iphone19:27
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Andy80hi all19:28
RST38hN8 battery not removable???19:28
Andy80I'm trying to use the N900 emulator inside the latest Qt Creator beta, but....19:28
* javispedro doesn't think the photos are that great..19:28
Andy80is it just a dummy picture?19:28
javispedrofull sunlight and still you can easily tell they're from a camera phone..19:28
Andy80nothing works19:29
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MohammadAG_lol why is their an uncovered torx scren on the N819:29
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG_, ! loving noor english ver19:29
nid0I dont recall seeing any other mid-range phones that can match those pictures19:29
nid0so they aint that bad19:29
RST38h javispedro: for a phone, they are pretty good19:29
MohammadAG_Noobmonk3y, :)19:29
Noobmonk3y1 suggestion.... bigggggger icons needed19:29
RST38h javispedro: n900 does worse19:29
* MohammadAG_ updated his PS3, MW2!!!!19:29
javispedroRST38h: ofc.19:29
MohammadAG_Noobmonk3y, will check that, qwerty12 made the smaller I think19:29
RST38hOf course, I would prefer a bigger sensor and better optics19:30
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javispedro640x360.. hmpf.19:33
javispedro16:9, makes sense from a marketing PoV...19:33
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Veggenyah...Ukraine is a polictically stable country, sure....(my $BigCorp-employer bought a part of a company there for the cheap labor on basis that it was a "reasonably stable" country)19:35
PhonicUKAndy80, Qt Creator 2 alpha doesn't have the emulator yet19:35
PhonicUKhence being an Alpha version19:35
PhonicUKworks fine if you connect to an actual N900 though19:36
Andy80I'm using thr BETA not the alpha19:36
Andy80released today19:36
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* RST38h laughs satanically at the mention of .UA as a "politically stable country"19:36
RST38hjavispedro: it is much easier, their S60e5 UI is not scalable19:37
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javispedroI can see them just bitmap-scaling the screen to the 1080p on HDMI output19:38
PhonicUKMaemo Hamarattan? :|19:39
PhonicUK* Harmattan19:39
RST38hjavispedro: seen interactive demo of that already19:39
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zaheermi am guessing hd video playback will not be scaled down for screen and then rescaled up to 720p/1080i/1080p19:40
javispedroyeah, DUI. Though.. device emulator?19:40
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javispedroah, simulator :P19:40
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kamuipr 1.2 *sigh sauce*19:56
* andrewfblack loves how people can't wait for pr 1.2 so they can wait for pr 1.3 so they cant wait for Meego 1.0 so they can wait for Meego 1.2 so they can....19:57
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* Trizt thinks his n900 is lagish after running for 9d without reboot20:07
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Shapeshifterandrewfblack: though the autobuilder screwup really was fail20:12
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RST38hOMG, they *ARE* releasing a successor to E70!20:13
andrewfblackShapeshifter: ??20:13
RST38hShadowJK: Rejoice! REJOICE!20:13
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RST38hWait. It is 320x240. Bummer.20:14
ShadowJKstandard symbian these days I guess :/20:15
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javispedrowhat's that? A featurephone?20:16
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DocScrutinizer51now THAT's ugly20:17
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javispedro320x240 is the number of pixels I'd expect on a wrist watch these days.20:18
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kamuiandrewfblack, I want fixes20:19
kamuii want refinement20:19
kamuiI want every incremental update I can get my hands on20:19
javispedrohave you built them?20:19
javispedroall the open components have their pr1.2 source in gitorious20:19
DocScrutinizer51I want a Pb2Au converter20:19
* javispedro has installed a few of them20:19
kamuijavispedro, good idea20:20
DocScrutinizer51javispedro: you talked to MohammadAG_ ?20:20
* andrewfblack is only person who doesn't care about Pr 1.2 lol20:21
Shapeshifterandrewfblack: autobuilder using pr1.2 way before any release ondevice20:21
DocScrutinizer51PR1.2 components on N90020:21
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* javispedro doesn't care about pr1.2 but he's working on a pr1.2 library atm20:21
andrewfblackShapeshifter: thats true but they did same with pr 1.1 maybe not this long out but it was a week or two20:21
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javispedroShapeshifter: that should be pretty much fixed now (both Gtk & Qt+)20:22
Shapeshifterwell this is not a week or two20:22
Shapeshifterjavispedro: sur but it wssnt for like a monthe20:22
Shapeshifterfail typing20:22
DocScrutinizer51really? haven't noticed similar major problems when 1.1 came out20:23
javispedroLOL to rant about MWKN not putting enough PR1.2 news20:23
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, they're holding out on us!!!20:24
GeneralAntillesHello, bergie.20:24
RST38hevil, evil20:24
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bergiehey GeneralAntilles20:25
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javispedroah, sending stories to mkwn requires a twitter account =)20:26
MohammadAG_<DocScrutinizer51> javispedro: you talked to MohammadAG_ ? <- ?20:26
javispedroMohammadAG_: I guess he thinks you're a hardcore PR1.2 fan or something.20:27
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javispedrois it the case?20:27
MohammadAG_no, but I installed PR1.2 packages yesterday20:27
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MohammadAG_just to prove the guy on the forums wrong :P20:27
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javispedrowell, keyboards are usually closed20:29
javispedroI wonder why nobody tries doing a portrait keyboard, if there's that much demand.20:29
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nid0nice rip on apple by nokia asking for their n8 prototype back20:36
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GeneralAntillesnid0, just like the N900 preview.20:39
GeneralAntillesEldar's kind of an idiot.20:39
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nid0I noticed that very quickly on seeing his posts on tmo20:39
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MohammadAG_lol GeneralAntilles20:40
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Wolfienid0: "culture of openness"? that wasn't the impression i got when I worked over there20:43
RST38hPoor Eldar, now he is gonna look like a kidnapper =)20:43
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Wolfiedidn't feel like there was any kind of culture, actually. Other than taking an afternoon coffee at the cantine and looking at the shift change :)20:43
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nid0Wolfie: I didnt write the post, just pointed out the rather blatant scathe on apple's doings and handling of the 4g business in the last paragraph20:43
Wolfieyeah, i know20:43
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Wolfiefor some change reason i chose to reply to you nevertheless20:44
StskeepsRST38h: next up is accusing him of abusing one of their children20:44
Wolfie"strange", not change20:44
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nid0it's certainly a very different approach to the one apple took though.20:44
Wolfiea better one, I'd say20:44
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Wolfiethe milk has already been spilled...20:45
RST38hStskeeps: Of course he had anal sex with that N8 proto!20:45
RST38hStskeeps: I mean, can there be any doubt? =)20:46
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Stskeepshow hard can it be anyhow - check all protos are accounted for, the ones which are missing..20:48
Stskeepsexcept if he has a nokia friend :P20:48
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javispedrojust remote-enable the gps and fire a icbm20:48
RST38hStskeeps: that friend may be in trouble now20:48
RST38hjavispedro: detonate the Li battery20:49
StskeepsRST38h: probably20:49
javispedroRST38h: now we know why bme is closed20:49
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RST38hBut I am sure you can find the right /sys file to echo "boom" to20:49
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m77771111Hi. I want to use n810 as portable microphone that can be used on other linux machine as sound input (-;20:55
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lcukm77771111, technically afaik you can use gstreamer and send stuff over the network20:59
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lcukbut sure how far or simple to configure it is20:59
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DocScrutinizer51wtf is wrong with xchat now?.21:00
meceis there something wrong?21:00
DocScrutinizer51see join-msgs of last few minutes21:01
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DocScrutinizer51prolly a restart might fix it21:01
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javispedroscrolling back? too much work, no way.21:01
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lcukVDVsx, did you enjoy your kebab21:02
MohammadAG_* DocScrutinizer51 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) <-- freenode hates you21:02
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DocScrutinizerfreggin bad luck21:03
VDVsxlcuk, lol21:03
lcukcool stuff21:03
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rm_youI miss Kebab :(21:03
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rm_youEurope rules.21:03
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rm_youif only for Kebab EVERYWHERE21:03
lcuki dont recall you wanting kebab21:03
lcukunless kebab is american for "sleeping on the bathroom floor"21:04
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rm_youkebab was my go-to meal for fast food :P21:04
lcukhow you doin rm_you21:04
rm_youfor the three weeks or so collectively i've been in europe now (all for maemo) i've had kebab like 40 times21:04
rm_youlcuk: still very unemployed21:04
lcukeep thats not very good21:05
rm_youwanting to do n900 development but feeling very directionless21:05
rm_youABL isn't really necessary21:05
lcuk40 kebabs in 21 days mmm21:05
rm_youhate to say it but i think quim was right21:05
lcuki bet the people on the plane loved you21:05
GeneralAntillesrm_you, lol.21:05
RST38hrm_me: In what way?21:05
GeneralAntillesrm_you, never admit defeat!21:05
GeneralAntillesWe need profiles and shit!21:05
* DocScrutinizer burps from kebab 10min ago21:05
GeneralAntillesEmphasis on the shit!21:05
rm_youin the... 5 months or so I used my n900 before it broke21:05
javispedrowe need SHIT?21:06
rm_youi used qwerty's quick backlight statusbar hack21:06
RST38hneed better shit21:06
rm_youand i still only ever changed the backlight level maybe three times21:06
rm_youthe entire 5 months21:06
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m77771111lcuk not found "gstreamer" in an application manager )21:06
rm_youGeneralAntilles: lol i'21:06
lcukgstreamer is not an application21:06
GeneralAntillesSuper Hitech Information Technology21:06
lcukits a framework21:06
rm_youGeneralAntilles: lol i'll get right on the "shit" then :P21:06
javispedroaha, acronym's day21:06
GeneralAntillesrm_you, I change it at least 3 times a day.21:06
rm_youyes, that21:07
lcukhas at least pieces of you rm_you i believe21:07
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* GeneralAntilles is rebooting into Windows 7 to play Stacraft II21:07
* GeneralAntilles feels dirty.21:07
rm_youi mean, qwerty coded that up in like two hours on day three or so21:07
lcukthen play other games then GeneralAntilles21:07
olisorry, does anyone have "screen" package for diablo? I can't google it...21:07
rm_youand it works fine21:08
lcukyou dont have to just play starcraft lol21:08
rm_youthe rest of ABL isn't really necessary either21:08
javispedroyes, he does.21:08
rm_youvolume and such doesn't need to be compacted21:08
rm_yourotation support... well21:08
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olior maybe any repository where I can find 'screen'21:08
javispedrooli: tools repo21:08
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RST38hrm_you: ABL is not the only widget that can be useful21:08
lcuki was at someones house last night that has an upside down maemo and ABL wouldv worked21:08
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olijacekowski: thank you21:08
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rm_youRST38h: right, but that's why i said I feel directionless :P21:08
lcukVDVsx, what pizza did u have21:09
rm_youno idea what to do now that my main project is basically dead21:09
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lcukrm_you, what did you do before abl tho21:10
RST38hrm_you: decent message box widget would be nice21:10
RST38hrm_you: current one is not even resizable21:10
rm_youlcuk: hacked on a2dp support for mplayer on n800 :P21:10
rm_yousubmitted a patch or two to mplayer for fixing it with video21:10
rm_youthat's about it21:10
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* javispedro ponders caring about Big Endian platforms or not...21:11
RST38hrm_you: then, decent rss reader applet21:11
rm_youthe backlight thing basically fell into my lap. people were like "we need to change backlight levels" and i was like, k i can do that]21:11
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DocScrutinizerLOL, my ssh to N900 is still up and running, despite the device been well out of reach of WLAN several times for several hours since I logged in :-D21:11
rm_youalright, what RSS readers are available now, and what is wrong with them?21:11
GAN900I hand picked you to implement my master plan, you rube.21:12
rm_youlol GAN21:12
rm_youI suppose it worked pretty well then :P21:12
rm_youan RSS reader seems doable21:12
GAN900jott, however, was just luck21:12
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rm_youjott I paid $20 to fix a problem :P21:12
rm_youand then he stuck around21:12
rm_youwhich was neat cause he was a cool guy.... wonder what happened to gim21:13
RST38hrm_you: well, there are several rss reader apps, but the thing is that there is no decent rss applet, that would show the maximal number of news, be configurable, and would not eat cpu21:13
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rm_youvery minimal RSS homescreen applet21:13
RST38hconfigurable, too21:14
rm_youwhen you say configurable21:14
rm_youwhat would you like to be able to configure?21:14
lcukuse 2pt font21:14
lcukfor maximum density21:14
rm_youlol lcuk21:14
lcukor is that too extreme - perhaps 8?21:14
rm_youRST38h: i don't use RSS much21:14
rm_youso i don't know what a good RSS applet would look like or behave like21:14
lcukthats potentially a good thing21:15
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rm_youbut if you talk me through designing your "dream RSS applet" i can prolly whip up the specs and UML for it and go :P21:15
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rm_youall part of that "requirements specification" stage of software design :P21:16
RST38hrm_you: ok, let me think of something else21:16
RST38hrm_you: how about a *usable* music player that lets you play files rather than tracker db entries?21:17
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rm_youso, does its own indexing, or just doesn't index at all?21:17
RST38hdoes not index at all21:17
rm_youIE, a music player that just traverses the filesystem as you wish?21:17
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lcuki keep pondering nice and simple - volcano distance widget21:17
RST38hbut lets you create and use playlists21:17
rm_youlol lcuk21:17
rm_youRST38h: aight. gstreamer fine?21:18
lcuk"you are 200 miles from nearest active volcano - RUN"21:18
RST38hrm_you: Yes. A *simple* music player. Guess so21:18
RST38hrm_you: iPod UI simulation a plus =)21:18
rm_youi could work out using mplayer as a backend but gstreamer is prolly simpler21:18
rm_youlol RST38h21:18
rm_youlcuk: like the belltower app?21:18
* RST38h actually started on this but did not have time to finish21:18
GAN900rm_you, yeah, he idled for, like, 6 months without responding to anything then one day he wasn't idling anymore.21:18
rm_youlcuk: i can only assume it is to warn you about possible crazy snipers...21:18
lcukrm_you, yeah, but belltowers dont usually block entire continents21:19
rm_youGAN900: yep, i have his phone number21:19
rm_youGAN900: thought about calling him21:19
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lcuk~seen jott21:19
infobotjott <n=j@unaffiliated/jott> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 564d 3h 4m 32s ago, saying: ':)'.21:19
rm_youRST38h: what language were you using?21:19
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GAN900rm_you, dooo21:19
RST38hrm_you: C, as usual21:19
rm_youRST38h: yeah, figured :P21:19
RST38hthere is another project like that, gimmea moment to find it21:20
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rm_youi'm on more of a python kick currently, but it does worry me a bit still performance-wise21:20
lcukrm_you, for regulat apps pyqt is seemingly getting better21:20
rm_youthen again, it is a lot better than n800 for it21:20
DocScrutinizerfamous last words :-)21:20
rm_youmy C is really basic/minimal :P21:20
rm_youalways a good time to learn i guess, right? :P21:21
rm_youit's just, whenever I use C i always feel like I'm going to have memory leaks everywhere T)T21:21
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RST38hrm_you: never use new21:23
RST38hor malloc21:23
DocScrutinizeror goto?21:23
rm_youi know, i'll just call new a bunch and have a conditional goto before the deletes :P21:23
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javispedroRST38h: admit it, you want a winamp clone21:26
* javispedro still uses winamp even under gnu for some reason he believes is related to the "Play folder" menu item21:26
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RST38hjavispedro: yep.21:27
RST38hrm_you: CHeck this one out:
DocScrutinizerrm_you: python is not the best choice for all sorts of projects21:29
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javispedroactually .pyo "optimization", last time I looked at it, was just "removing the comments"21:29
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javispedro(note that removing comments in python is not trivial -- breaks inline documentation, and some apps actually RELY on that)21:29
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lcukjavispedro, noobmonk3y saved 20% of his startup by removing comments21:30
lcuki wonder what a reduction in variables would bring too21:30
javispedrobecause to actually strip comments automatically you have to invoke the optimizer manually iirc21:30
javispedrowith -O21:30
lcukie "mybloodylongvariablereference" -> "a"21:30
rm_youDocScrutinizer: yeah, i know. It's not my OneBigHammer, i'm just sayin' it'd be neat to get to use it once in a while for something :P21:32
javispedroactually, I read that they fixed this in whatever python version I have now -- -O strips comments but not docstrings, -O -O strips everything21:32
fralsa finally back on the ground21:32
lcukjavispedro, did you see the python speedup thread21:32
rm_youso, media player, maybe not?21:33
ArkenoiVERSION null21:33
rm_youback to RSS applet? lol21:33
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javispedrolcuk: think so, cause I remember somebody speaking about pros cons of python-launcher recently..21:33
lcukrm_you, mafw should give backend support?21:33
* satmd sees21:33
fralslove when you get off the plane, as you arrive your luggage comes up and  you get on the train back to the city and it leaves within a minute21:33
lcukbut use your own control to choose songs based on folder etc?21:33
lcukfrals, oh hai21:34
lcukspeak of the devil! lol21:34
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rm_youi mean, Quasar looks like what RST wanted, but already complete :P21:34
lcukhow many new versions of fmms did you build whilst waiting at airport?21:34
javispedrothose evil python users! ;)21:34
rm_youRST38h: you seen Quasar?21:35
fralsalmost finished my book thou21:35
lcuk:D cool stuff21:35
lcukspeaking of book ive got one to finish21:35
fralsfirst time in almost a year ive had time to read :)21:36
lcukwhats yours frals21:36
lcukplanes do that21:36
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frals"bones" by jonathan kellerman21:37
RST38hrm_you: Yea. it is pretty cool21:37
* lcuk is just finishing the dreaming void and will start on the next one soon21:37
andrewfblackI wander if Qgil would freak out if I sold my N900 lol j/k21:37
RST38hrm_you: But it is not complete, not packaged for Maemo5, not being worked on, and uses mplayer21:37
lcukfrals, the book of the series?21:37
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RST38hrm_you: notice no-finger-scrolling and other problems21:37
Stskeepsandrewfblack: well, you'd be in breach of a contract :P21:37
RST38hrm_you: Adopting it to Maemo *well* and packaging the results would be cool21:37
andrewfblackStskeeps: didn't sign a contract mine isn't a Summit one :) Just joking anyways21:38
rm_youRST38h: hrmrm21:38
rm_youlol, Quim said he gave a new device and my address to his secretary at the end of last month, been 30 days and nothing's shown up, so i guess i give up21:39
rm_youand now he's all Volcanoed along with the rest of europe21:39
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andrewfblackrm_you: email him for the tracking number if its lost in mail he would want to know21:40
rm_youi can still do testing tho if i charge my battery in my friend's n810 :P21:40
rm_youI did email him, haven't heard back21:40
rm_youi think he got volcanoed in21:40
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rm_youthat's what i heard at least21:40
rm_youRST38h: i'll look into that. i guess when i glanced at the page it looked like it was for maemo5 but i wasn't paying close attention21:41
opdf2not sure if my slider is loose, the lcd supposed to wiggle a little back and forth when it is midway up?21:42
rm_youah, yeah it's for diablo, k21:42
rm_youopdf2: yeah it does that on all of them21:42
rm_youa bit scary but "normal"21:42
opdf2rm_you:  whew ty21:42
ech0HTPCwhat it do/21:42
Arkenoiwimax terribly sucks today.. it worked just fine a few mothns ago :-(21:43
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rm_youArkenoi: are you sure you weren't just like... really stoned a few months ago, and it SEEMED fast/working? :P21:43
lcukwhen jake gets a hole in his pants21:43
lcukhe sticks finder in and shows us21:43
lcuk"look a hole"21:44
lcukit starts off about 2mm21:44
lcukand ends up being the size of his knee21:44
lcuki think of that everytime someone says "X wiggles or moves or whatever"21:44
rm_youwhen i get a hole in the knee of my jeans, inevitably i start to put them on, get a toe stuck in it, and RIIIIIIP21:44
rm_youand then it's the size of the entire pantsleg21:45
Arkenoirm_you: i am pretty sure21:45
lcukdid your toe cause the hole? o_O21:45
rm_younot to begin with21:45
lcukcut ur nails to be sure21:45
Arkenoii mean sure i was not ;-)21:45
yuizy_my n900 won't charge, i've used three different chargers and also tried to remove the battery, but there's no orange light21:45
yuizy_any solution?21:45
rm_youlol Arkenoi, never had good experience with wimax personally, so21:46
rm_youyuizy_: is the USB connector still attached to the device? :P21:46
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slonopotamusyuizy_, broken mini-usb port?21:46
rm_youyuizy_: or stuck at sort of an odd angle in the usb hole?21:46
yuizy_it seems ok, nothing weird21:46
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rm_youlook REALLY closely21:46
yuizy_i once broke it really bad and got a new device from the shop21:47
Arkenoirm_you: cdma-450 sucks even more, and i have no internet here besides these two21:47
yuizy_hey thanks21:48
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yuizy_i pushed it hard and it started to charge21:48
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yuizy_but it won't probably last long21:48
rm_youyuizy_: yeah that's fucked21:49
rm_yougo get a new device again21:49
rm_youand hope the person at the store doesn't look at you weirdly for "breaking" a second one21:50
slonopotamusyuizy_, broken usb connector is a warranty case21:51
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