IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-04-23

* Arkenoi wonders how long it takes before we see first n900's fried with 1.2GHz @1.5V		00:03
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Torne	gevaerts: strings /dev/mtd0ro is very amusing	00:03
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PhonicUK	hey all	00:04
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PhonicUK	how easy is it to actually really 'boot' debian on the N900?	00:05
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PhonicUK	off a MicroSD card	00:05
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SpeedEvil	PhonicUK: there is a way in early boot to get it to call a script - the normal boot process If you did a picviot_root onto microSD, ...	00:06
PhonicUK	is that the method used where you slide out the keyboard to get a multi-boot loader?	00:07
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Macer	Extended battery with 2400 mAh capacity is available for N900	00:11
sECuRE	where?	00:12
MohammadAG_	Mugen	00:12
PhonicUK	is it larger than the original?	00:12
MohammadAG_	yes	00:12
PhonicUK	how much?	00:12
MohammadAG_	and it disables the microSD and apps that require an open camera	00:12
PhonicUK	ah	00:13
MohammadAG_	(like flashlight)	00:13
PhonicUK	so you can't use the camera either?	00:13
sECuRE	uh, no dice then	00:13
MohammadAG_	PhonicUK, http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/nokia/nokia-n900.html	00:13
MohammadAG_	PhonicUK, you can use it, take off the battery cover to see how it would work	00:13
PhonicUK	ah i see	00:13
Macer	haha	00:13
Macer	that's ghetto	00:13
lcuk	bug buys a diesel generator for n900 i get several months of uptime, but the wheelbarrow to carry it is a bit hefty	00:13
SpeedEvil	PhonicUK: yes	00:14
lcuk	-bug + /me	00:14
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Macer	lcuk: there's always a solar jacket :)	00:14
PhonicUK	speedevil, ?	00:14
nid0	roll on atomic batteries, I say	00:14
Arkenoi	Mugen battery is ugly as hell	00:14
lcuk	can you get them to wrap the generator?	00:14
Macer	just walk into walmart.. you'll get a full charge in 5 mins with a solar jacket	00:14
MohammadAG_	lcuk, run it off bacon	00:14
MohammadAG_	I'm sure it'd work :P	00:14
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PhonicUK	whats the mass of the bacon?	00:15
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Arkenoi	i wonder why fail so miserably though e90 one was quite decent	00:15
PhonicUK	E = mc^2 :)	00:15
lcuk	MohammadAG_, thats like a perpetual motion machine	00:15
nid0	<3 my e90	00:15
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lcuk	you need external power source to cook the bacon	00:15
lcuk	slide out keyboard, add rasher, push it back under for a few minutes at 600mhz	00:15
MohammadAG	you have overclocking and joikuspot for that	00:15
lcuk	its even got drip tray	00:15
lcuk	no former boxer required	00:15
PhonicUK	roffle	00:16
MohammadAG	XD	00:16
PhonicUK	I'd do it at 850mhz, I like crispy bacon	00:16
MohammadAG	1200 it is	00:16
ShadowJK	mugen shipped replacement cover today. I guess it'll arrive next week :)	00:16
lcuk	no thanks PhonicUK the fuse will blow	00:16
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, replacement as in fixes the overlooked issues?	00:16
Macer	you would think that by now a hundred years later.. they'd have come up with a better way to accelerate electrons other than steam	00:16
Arkenoi	ShadowJK, what's different with it?	00:16
ShadowJK	That's annoying, I just completed the mod of the original mugen cover yesterday, to give me back microsd and flashlight	00:16
MohammadAG	lol	00:16
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Arkenoi	I won't buy one until they make working camera slide and n800-style stand	00:17
ShadowJK	MohammadAG, yes presumably it restores microsd :P	00:17
lcuk	n900 was made for tim the tool man taylor	00:17
Arkenoi	actually it annoys me much that n900 is not handy to put on table and type	00:17
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, what about the flashlight app :)	00:17
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PhonicUK	Arkenoi, i do that all the time :\	00:17
SpeedEvil	Does the mugen battery have additional space over the microSD card?	00:17
lcuk	Arkenoi, mine does?	00:17
PhonicUK	with the stand up and the keyboard out	00:17
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, yeah	00:17
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, is it enough to store another battery? :P	00:18
ShadowJK	no it's not	00:18
Arkenoi	if you do not use stand, you need a piece of cloth to put under to fix it, if you do you should watch for the damn thing not to fall down	00:18
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, do two Nokia batteries fit under the mugen cover?	00:18
ShadowJK	i dont have two	00:18
MohammadAG	damn	00:18
* MohammadAG looks up measurements		00:19
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lcuk	n900 on virgin train table with stand out rattles when watching movie if the keyboard is up	00:19
lcuk	so i put a tissue under it too :$	00:20
MohammadAG	I put my maths book under it	00:20
Arkenoi	e90 cover was just to fit the battery, no empty space under	00:20
MohammadAG	feels so comfy, and actually useful	00:20
lcuk	you should be reading your maths book \@	00:21
Arkenoi	and if they do it that wide, why not to make it thinner instead of leaving empty space?	00:21
ShadowJK	Arkenoi, I think they thought having equal thickness all over would be more sensible, than having a third of the phone original thickness :P	00:21
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MohammadAG	lcuk, I read it a couple times :P	00:22
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MohammadAG	I never figured out how all those theories were made	00:22
MohammadAG	making a whole new programming language might be easier :P	00:23
ShadowJK	You could maybe have an overhang towards the left of the phone, but it'd have to be rigid and not too thick, and elevated a bit, as to still allow insertion of battery.. it'd be damn expensive	00:23
lcuk	didnt some of the equations come essentially from that	00:23
lcuk	having to make a whole new branch of mathematics just to justify their theory	00:23
ShadowJK	N810 extended batteyr also has empty space under the cover :-)	00:23
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Arkenoi	and iirc e90 battery was twice cheaper and had 30% bigger capacity (3600mAh)	00:25
ShadowJK	it's not twice cheaper	00:25
PhonicUK	can the N900 boot directly off the MicroSD slot?	00:26
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ShadowJK	I wouldn't trust the stated capacities unless someone tested it. The mugen 1800mAh battery for N800 turned out to be 1200-1300mAh (original Nokia.com one was 1500mAh), for example.	00:26
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, yes	00:26
PhonicUK	awesome	00:27
ShadowJK	ah, so basically the E90 battery door only covers the battery	00:27
PhonicUK	i want to put debian on a MicroSD and boot straight into it	00:27
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MohammadAG	PhonicUK, easier just to go with Mer	00:27
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PhonicUK	Mer?	00:27
MohammadAG	won't be accelerated though	00:27
MohammadAG	~mer	00:27
infobot	mer is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer	00:27
PhonicUK	i want my accelerated goodness	00:27
MohammadAG	~thanks	00:28
infobot	MohammadAG: no worries	00:28
PhonicUK	and i don't want a phone desktop	00:28
Arkenoi	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HIGH-CAP-GOLD-BL-5J-BATTERY-FOR-NOKIA-N900_W0QQitemZ320508127680QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhoneAccessories_MobilePhoneBatteries?hash=item4a9fc5e9c0 for some obscure reason this asshole has all-positive feedback, from almost 200 people who where fooled only one complained!	00:28
BCMM	why does apt-get upgrade show more packages than choosing upgrade in app manager does?	00:28
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, it uses hildon-desktop	00:29
PhonicUK	yah i don't want hildon :P	00:29
MohammadAG	but the rest is Ubuntu	00:29
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, install LXDE	00:29
PhonicUK	i also want 3D tho :P	00:29
MohammadAG	till Nokia open up the driver, you won't	00:29
PhonicUK	or i can use the N900 kernel + modules instead :P	00:29
ShadowJK	Arkenoi, everybody is scared of retaliation feedback :P	00:29
ShadowJK	and stupid	00:29
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PhonicUK	also its TI's driver IIRC, not Nokias	00:29
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMwlchuqsXo	00:30
Arkenoi	this ruins the whole reputation idea	00:30
ShadowJK	Anyway, people that don't change phones every year like we do, would probably see a benefit from that battery, as after 2-3 years, any shitty newfly manufactured battery is going to have higher capacity than a battery made 3 years ago ;-)	00:30
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* Arkenoi changed phones once a 2-3 years before, as new communicators were launched at that rate		00:32
ShadowJK	N900evil, since the cover adds 7mm thickness to N900, that's probably how much extra space you've got directly above the microsd card	00:32
ShadowJK	There's no extra space around the flash+camera module	00:33
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BCMM	Arkenoi: i encountered a dishonest ebay seller who achieved positive feedback by claiming he couldn't give refunds without good feedback first	00:33
* Arkenoi wonders if there could be such a thing as microSD - to - fullsize SD converter with external wiring and solt		00:33
* MohammadAG is considering the Mugen battery		00:33
Arkenoi	s/solt/slot/	00:33
MohammadAG	Really want to get rid of the blue haze in my images	00:33
BCMM	Arkenoi: when i refused, he basically spun things out through a paypal dispute till it was too late to give feedback - perhaps this guy works in the same way	00:33
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BCMM	and, infuriatingly, this guy had very good feedback even though he was selling dodgy RAM	00:34
Arkenoi	BCMM: isn't it a violation of ebay ToS?	00:34
Arkenoi	you may fill a complaint	00:34
BCMM	Arkenoi: yeah, thus the paypal dispute	00:34
BCMM	Arkenoi: yeah, i did	00:34
Arkenoi	..and?	00:35
BCMM	Arkenoi: got my money back too, but he managed to spin it out past the feedback deadline	00:35
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ShadowJK	Arkenoi, well there was a guy who has made such an adapter for N810's miniSD. Comes with new back door that adds thickness, to fit the new SD slot that's screwed onto the back of the N810. The mugen thick battery for N810 and the SD adapter fits under the mugen battery door, too.	00:35
Arkenoi	ebay should ban him completely	00:35
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BCMM	Arkenoi: yeah, i asked them and they were... vague	00:35
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BCMM	Arkenoi: something along the lines of "just because there is nothing visibly doesn't mean we aren't doing something about it blah blah privacy rules blah"	00:36
BCMM	^visibly happening	00:36
Arkenoi	assholes. they will fsck your brains out if you use your friends' credit card under his permission, and they do not care about obvious fraud.	00:36
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BCMM	Arkenoi: well, he found himself a wonderfully grey area - advertising hi-density RAM as standard (which it is, sort of, but the standard doesn't permit it in desktop systems and desktop motherboard never support it)	00:37
ShadowJK	the Credit Card Cartell and the Banks here actually consider use of another person's card, with or without permission, as fraud :-)	00:37
lardman	night all	00:37
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BCMM	Arkenoi: but he should've been banned right away for asking for threatening extra costs for giving bad feedback	00:38
BCMM	paypal and ebay really don't seem to coordinate too well given they they are the same company	00:38
Arkenoi	ShadowJK, orly? if he can pay for me in restaurant , why cannot he do the same on ebay? there is NOTHING in ToS prohibiting it, i am damn sure.	00:39
Arkenoi	i do not "use" his card, actually	00:40
lcuk	speaking of which im sure iver still got that file around somewhere with hundreds of cc details	00:40
lcuk	my bank never got back to me	00:40
BCMM	lcuk: what?	00:41
lcuk	i got an email ages ago now	00:41
Arkenoi	i asked them to SHOW me exactly how ToS or bank rules prohibits them	00:41
lcuk	containing a massive list of contact details and credit card info	00:41
Arkenoi	they did not. they kept talking about "inconsistency" and failed to show exactly what it was	00:41
lcuk	i contacted my bank fraud department and asked if they would be interested in taking them off me	00:42
Gadgetoid_mbp	BCMM: paypal and ebay seem to co-ordinate exceptionally well in taking as much of your money in fees as possible	00:42
Arkenoi	if that was in person i'd give that asshole damn good punch in the face	00:42
MohammadAG	lcuk, can I have a copy?	00:42
Arkenoi	no jokes	00:42
lcuk	no	00:42
* MohammadAG gives lcuk a truck of bacon		00:42
MohammadAG	sure?	00:42
BCMM	lcuk: you know, that really isn't the sort of thing you should mention on IRC - you'll get a million and one lame hacking attempts slowing your connection down :)	00:42
MohammadAG	:P	00:42
* MohammadAG stops the port scan		00:42
MohammadAG	nah BCMM, I doubt anyone would do it	00:43
lcuk	BCMM, unfortunately its rather piffly - places lose hundreds of thousands of the same things	00:43
Gadgetoid_mbp	lcuk: you might want to delete that, and write zeros over it a thousand times	00:43
lcuk	why?	00:43
lcuk	ank wasnt interested in it	00:43
lcuk	bank	00:43
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Corsac	zeros are overrated	00:43
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Well, if they found porn of 2 year olds on your computer, the phrase "it just got sent to me in email so I saved it" isn't going to cut it	00:44
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MohammadAG	lol	00:44
lcuk	well unsurprisingly thats not what we are talking about	00:44
tripzero	what if i save it to the cloud?	00:44
Gadgetoid_mbp	There is no could!	00:44
tripzero	that'd be interesting, because even in email form, it's technically stored in the "cloud" under your account	00:45
PhonicUK	anyone know what the env var is to make SDL use Pulseaudio instead of ALSA?	00:45
tripzero	#sdl?	00:46
PhonicUK	?	00:46
crashanddie	PhonicUK: tripzero meant "Go ask in #SDL"	00:47
PhonicUK	ah	00:47
PhonicUK	export SDL_AUDIODRIVER='pulse'	00:47
PhonicUK	:)	00:47
PhonicUK	SDL is broken in the debian chroot :\	00:47
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MohammadAG	is there any easy way of showing the last two letters from the output of a command?	00:48
MohammadAG	(preferably not awk)	00:49
PhonicUK	tail -c 2	00:49
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, THANKS!	00:49
PhonicUK	no worries	00:50
PhonicUK	i have to spend most of my time at work dealing with shell scripts xD	00:50
crashanddie	lcuk:was it CFS?	00:50
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, ain't ye lucky :)	00:50
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PhonicUK	not really :P	00:50
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MohammadAG	lol why	00:51
PhonicUK	It's a big company	00:51
lcuk	crashanddie, ?	00:51
PhonicUK	me being here is very circular in a way	00:51
PhonicUK	since i work for Nokia Siemens Networks :P	00:51
MohammadAG	shells are cool, till someone gives you a script with rm -rf /(wildcard) :P	00:51
crashanddie	lcuk: who sent you the cc list?	00:51
lcuk	i cant remember	00:52
crashanddie	djeezus I hate how people behave on the mailing lists	00:52
crashanddie	and some guys really need to read their writings before sending them out	00:55
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crashanddie	"I tried to get this to work a while ago, yet couldn't get all of the BIOS bugs worked out well enough to even get to the point that Linux wouldn't boot." <-- So you couldn't get Linux not-to-boot? Strong OS!	00:56
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crashanddie	And some guy has a name "Bullokles". Anyone else read that as "bollocks"?	00:57
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MohammadAG	PhonicUK, is there an opposite of tail to read the first two characters?	01:06
PhonicUK	head	01:06
crashanddie	head	01:06
PhonicUK	or some implementations of tail let you use a negative number	01:06
crashanddie	c'mon, you could've guessed that	01:06
MohammadAG	I did, but -c didn't work :P	01:06
PhonicUK	it might be -b	01:06
crashanddie	MohammadAG: ah, busybox ftw probably	01:06
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MohammadAG	crashanddie, indeed (grrrr)	01:07
PhonicUK	eeh -c should work according to the man page :\	01:07
PhonicUK	unless busybox has a nonstandard implementation	01:07
PhonicUK	which would suck balls	01:07
MohammadAG	doesn't it always?	01:07
crashanddie	PhonicUK: yeah, could be	01:07
MohammadAG	:)	01:07
crashanddie	hehe	01:07
PhonicUK	1 sec ill check	01:07
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PhonicUK	oh that sucks	01:08
frankS2	:D	01:08
MohammadAG	lol	01:08
aep	hmpf. down to 10 minutes battery time. fully charged.	01:08
MohammadAG	~ $ head --help	01:08
MohammadAG	BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso26+0m5) multi-call binary	01:08
MohammadAG	Usage: head [OPTION]... [FILE]...	01:08
crashanddie	MohammadAG: erhm, tail -c 5 works here	01:08
MohammadAG	so helpful	01:08
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MohammadAG	~ $ set \| grep LANG \| tail -c 7 \| head -c 2	01:09
MohammadAG	head: invalid option -- c	01:09
MohammadAG	crashanddie, not here ^	01:09
crashanddie	MohammadAG: tail -c	01:09
crashanddie	MohammadAG: head is the one giving an error	01:09
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MohammadAG	err	01:10
PhonicUK	got it	01:10
MohammadAG	crashanddie, why did you say tail worked lol	01:10
PhonicUK	cut -c 1,2	01:10
PhonicUK	echo fooo \| cut -c 1,2	01:10
PhonicUK	fo	01:10
MohammadAG	~ $ set \| grep LANG \| tail -c 7 \| cut -c 1,2	01:11
MohammadAG	en	01:11
MohammadAG	worked :)	01:11
MohammadAG	thanks again PhonicUK	01:11
PhonicUK	no worries	01:11
PhonicUK	ah theres a better way to do what you're doing	01:11
MohammadAG	(why isn't there an easier way to find the language of the device?	01:11
MohammadAG	)	01:11
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, there is?	01:11
PhonicUK	yah 1 moment	01:11
gevaerts	echo $LANG\|cut -f 1 -d _	01:11
PhonicUK	not what i had in mind but pretty cool	01:12
MohammadAG	lol	01:12
MohammadAG	so set actually sets variables	01:12
MohammadAG	:P	01:12
PhonicUK	set w/o params just shows all the vars	01:12
PhonicUK	kinda like export	01:12
MohammadAG	yeah	01:12
crashanddie	env	01:12
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MohammadAG	which is what I was doing	01:12
crashanddie	should be the one you use for queries	01:13
PhonicUK	$LC_NAME	01:13
crashanddie	MohammadAG: btw, the tail -c worked :P I don't care what you say	01:13
PhonicUK	echo $LC_NAME \| cut -f 2 -d _	01:13
crashanddie	it's the head that failed	01:13
MohammadAG	crashanddie, it's head that was causing me problems lol	01:13
MohammadAG	lol I know!	01:13
crashanddie	< crashanddie> it's the head that failed <-- I have the same problem with 30% of the women I meet!	01:14
gevaerts	PhonicUK: why LC_NAME?	01:14
MohammadAG	LOL	01:14
PhonicUK	LC = localization	01:14
gevaerts	yes, but why that one?	01:14
crashanddie	PhonicUK: lies	01:14
crashanddie	PhonicUK: LC = LOLCATS	01:14
PhonicUK	language != localization	01:14
PhonicUK	also, lol	01:14
MohammadAG	lmao	01:14
MohammadAG	LANG is the language of the device right?	01:14
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MohammadAG	actually, I just realized what I'm doing might fail	01:15
PhonicUK	IIRC, LANG doesn't change, LC_whatever can be changed	01:15
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MohammadAG	since the app doesn't have all languages on the device	01:15
PhonicUK	so if you where after keyboard layout, you'd probably use $LANG	01:15
PhonicUK	if you wanted the system language used for menus etc, you'd use LC_NAME	01:15
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PhonicUK	IIRC, YMMV, IANAG, etc	01:16
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MohammadAG	PhonicUK, http://pastebin.com/wvUUKGRV	01:17
MohammadAG	that's what I'm doing	01:17
MohammadAG	an ugly way of changing a language	01:17
MohammadAG	the*	01:17
MohammadAG	of an app	01:17
PhonicUK	ah i see	01:17
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aep	n900 refuses to go lower then C2 despite cpu is idle. any idea what to do?	01:20
Pforce	hi arp	01:21
Pforce	aep :)	01:21
PhonicUK	C2?	01:21
Pforce	aep: check out what i made http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP7zty5Kg7g	01:21
PhonicUK	250MHz?	01:21
Pforce	naali running on the n900 :)	01:21
aep	wuut	01:21
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Pforce	yep	01:21
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Pforce	ogre 1.7 or 1.8 how you like it, with GLES 1.x rendering system	01:22
PhonicUK	hey has anyone tried to compile BZFlag with an OpenGL -> OglES wrapper?	01:22
PhonicUK	for ARM	01:22
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Pforce	its pretty smooth also :) check the video	01:22
PhonicUK	OOOH OGRE!!!	01:22
PhonicUK	WANT	01:22
PhonicUK	aww its only 1.x	01:22
* MohammadAG is confused		01:22
PhonicUK	i want 2.x :P	01:22
Pforce	PhonicUK: havent been able to load the GLES2 rendering system	01:22
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Pforce	it buids	01:23
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Pforce	and links to GLESv2	01:23
PhonicUK	I want to port my game to OGRE	01:23
PhonicUK	it currently uses Truevision	01:23
PhonicUK	http://phonicuk.com/software/Ballistic.aspx	01:23
PhonicUK	watch it then worship me as a god	01:23
Pforce	but ogre refuses to load the plugin	01:23
Pforce	hmm interesting	01:24
Pforce	that would be actually usable with touchscreen	01:24
aep	Pforce: nice stuff.	01:24
aep	never believed you'd get it working	01:24
PhonicUK	what would be usable with touchscreen?	01:24
Pforce	well neither did anyone else, did that in 2 weeks so :P	01:24
Pforce	most of it was the custom maemo ui and camera controls	01:24
Pforce	and touch screen input	01:25
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Pforce	PhonicUK: good music :)	01:25
PhonicUK	ta, its just one of the youtube audioswap tracks xD	01:25
Pforce	yeah recognised my firs track too	01:25
Pforce	then i put something that it wont, plus some finnish music at the end :)	01:26
PhonicUK	i uploaded with no audio	01:26
Pforce	ah	01:26
PhonicUK	watch the vid of the level editor :)	01:26
PhonicUK	and the Lua goodness :)	01:26
aep	uuh lots of wakups from omap2_mcspi	01:26
Pforce	aep: what aer you working on the n900?	01:26
PhonicUK	it has a built in mini Lua IDE with autocompletion, intelisense, etc	01:26
aep	Pforce: my own client of course. i was faster :Ü	01:26
aep	* :P	01:27
crashanddie	PhonicUK: fail, only win	01:27
Pforce	right	01:27
PhonicUK	crashanddie, eh?	01:27
PhonicUK	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrVxARjYA10 :)	01:27
crashanddie	PhonicUK: only windows :(	01:27
Pforce	could give that thing another go now that i know what im doing :)	01:27
PhonicUK	for now	01:27
aep	Pforce: but it cant render anything usefull, so i'd declare this a win for naali :D	01:27
PhonicUK	its not gna stay like that	01:27
crashanddie	PhonicUK: and then i had a game like that on the playstation about 15 years ago	01:27
Pforce	not a competition :)	01:27
PhonicUK	not with a level editor and lua scripting you didn't :P	01:28
PhonicUK	or bump mapped textures + specular lighting + bloom + shader water :P	01:28
PhonicUK	some of the levels ive made look awesome if i may say so myself :)	01:28
PhonicUK	if a little blocky	01:28
aep	Pforce: actually right now i'm working in improving the battery life. 10 minutes is not even enough to walk from PC to car	01:28
Pforce	:D	01:28
Pforce	mine stands for ~2 days with normal use	01:29
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Pforce	naali blasting all the time its more like 2 hours :)	01:29
crashanddie	dude, that's like saying "I reimplemented mario with pixel shaders in DirectX 10" "Oh, cool, 3D?" "3D? Who needs 3D!! This is MAARIIOOO"	01:29
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Pforce	the water shaders are kind of irrelevant if your just moving a ball around :D	01:30
PhonicUK	except when the ball falls in the water	01:30
Pforce	and other fancy stuff	01:30
Pforce	good point	01:30
Pforce	i guess :)	01:30
PhonicUK	the hard part was dealing with alpha sorting :\	01:30
Pforce	aep: maybe you can switch to ogre as it seems to handle the rendering quite well on the n900	01:31
Pforce	one region at least	01:31
PhonicUK	its still not perfect, but its good enough	01:31
Pforce	then again i havent tried heavy scenes yet	01:31
aep	Pforce: nah, then i could just work on naali	01:31
Pforce	maybe you can? :)	01:31
Pforce	lot of things have changed	01:31
Pforce	since then	01:31
aep	actually, i would, if i did have time for it anyway	01:32
PhonicUK	sleepy time, night all	01:32
Pforce	nit	01:32
Pforce	night	01:32
aep	Pforce: i'm maintaining a whole distro now, not much time left for toys :(	01:32
Pforce	aep: heh, understandable :)	01:32
Pforce	oh that what you linked back then	01:32
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aep	yup	01:32
Pforce	so it got interest?	01:32
Pforce	like people are using it	01:33
aep	nope. who cares.	01:33
aep	i use it.	01:33
Pforce	heh :)	01:33
aep	and the 4 people who develop it	01:33
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aep	Pforce: 5 years ago i worked for Valeo, we made the same thing you just did on the n900, except we had nothing moveable	01:36
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aep	definatly something the car industry is looking for. they put millions of dollars in their shows	01:36
Pforce	like a online showroom	01:37
Pforce	thats kind of what our audi world is	01:37
aep	yeah, did that, except it wasnt online :/	01:37
Pforce	:)	01:38
Pforce	times have changed a bit, hehe	01:38
aep	yeah. realextend rocks.	01:38
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dima202	The alarm is very weak on this phone. It's actually quite soothing	01:39
* aep back to finding out why the fsck the map driver eats so much battery		01:39
Pforce	aep: you should participate on the meego stuff	01:39
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Pforce	as you know so much of the os stuff	01:39
aep	Pforce: i don't think they want participants	01:40
Pforce	i tought it was made "public" just for that	01:40
Pforce	:P	01:40
aep	the community has been quite hostile, which is why i usually just sit in my dark corner and do my own crap	01:40
aep	i applied for qt-software though, so i might have some indirect effect	01:41
Pforce	shame to hear that	01:41
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Pforce	to work for qt? :) thats cool	01:41
Pforce	wow	01:41
aep	i hope :)	01:41
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Pforce	i guess the qxt or what was it is a really nice thing in the resume there :D	01:41
aep	its one of the communites i helped building, so i get to remove hostile entities :P	01:41
aep	yeah, it is.	01:42
Pforce	nice i hope you get that	01:42
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aep	and my sl viewer was too. i actually sent it in as code example	01:42
Pforce	would that mean moving or	01:42
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aep	yup. to norway. my true home	01:42
aep	<3	01:42
Pforce	well all works out then :)	01:42
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Pforce	let me know how it goes	01:42
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aep	will do :)	01:43
Pforce	i was under the impression that qt maemo stuff was made in germany	01:43
aep	explains why i dont like them	01:43
Pforce	:D	01:43
Pforce	hehe	01:43
aep	i just can't get along with germans. dunno.	01:43
aep	its always about authority and paper shit. no one cares about experience of common sense	01:43
aep	s,of,or	01:44
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Pforce	:P	01:44
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aep	Pforce: you guys actually have an office and stuff, do you?	01:46
Pforce	yeah sure, rex is developed by three separate companies in Oulu Finland	01:46
aep	i hope that job will allow me some more extensive visits of the qt community. would pay you a visit ;)	01:46
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Pforce	evocativi (where i work), playsign and ludocraft	01:46
aep	and we sure could learn a thing or two from you.	01:47
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Pforce	yeah would be great	01:47
aep	i just hope people will actually listen to me @nokia. its hard enough for the people who have been there since early TT days	01:47
Pforce	some code then sauna and beer :)	01:47
aep	awesome	01:47
Macer	hm	01:48
Pforce	naalis biggest performance bottleneck is now the rendering to qimage and passing that to ogre to paint	01:49
Macer	is there an app that puts your now playing in your status msg?	01:49
Pforce	would hope to make that GL at some point	01:49
aep	Pforce: yeah, you're supposed to use my gl hack there :P	01:49
Pforce	maybe ill revisit that	01:49
aep	make it a #define for X11	01:49
Pforce	its just if ogre will play nice	01:49
aep	it should. if not, make it	01:50
Pforce	i dont know anything about gl contextes but i guess they would need to share one	01:50
aep	yes	01:50
Pforce	as i was told would become the problems or something	01:50
Pforce	right	01:50
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Pforce	and the game companys are quite persistent to keep DX as an option on the side	01:50
aep	no problem with _option_	01:51
Macer	vim is 6MB? :)	01:51
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joker_89	hi	01:51
joker_89	anyone uses pys60?	01:51
Pforce	aep: well it is if we cant rely on all platformst that we can make the two work with ogl	01:51
aep	Pforce: i think we're abusing the channel here ;)	01:51
Pforce	maybe :D	01:51
Pforce	should go to sleep	01:51
aep	same	01:52
Pforce	meetings and such tomorrow, sigh	01:52
aep	such is life. see you around.	01:52
Pforce	sure :)	01:52
Pforce	we always meet on some channel from time to time!	01:52
MohammadAG	joker_89, a bit	01:52
Pforce	good luck with the job application and the viewer	01:53
aep	Pforce: i'm in #realextend all the time :P	01:53
aep	Pforce: thanks!	01:53
MohammadAG	why not try #symbian though	01:53
MohammadAG	if there is a symbian channel	01:53
aep	there is	01:53
Pforce	nothing happening there, should come to -dev ;)	01:53
Pforce	o/ ->	01:53
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aep	Pforce: aha. night	01:53
MohammadAG	joker_89, #pys60	01:54
MohammadAG	pys60 is stored on maemo garage, weird	01:54
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zappa	sup	01:59
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jeward	Is this the right place to ask about the n900?	02:06
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MohammadAG	jeward, just ask	02:07
jeward	Well, I've downloaded some files in the web browser, but I can't find them on disk?	02:07
Gh0sty	an n900 whats that?	02:07
Gh0sty	sounds odd	02:07
jeward	Nokia N900.	02:07
Gh0sty	:P	02:07
jeward	;)	02:07
Gh0sty	(just kidding)	02:08
Gh0sty	good point	02:08
Gh0sty	never tried that	02:08
jeward	I was going to try to get Opera mini running and downloaded some associated files to "Documents", that appears to be a file rather than a directory?	02:08
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Gh0sty	testing ...	02:09
MohammadAG	jeward, opera mini isn't available afaik	02:09
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jeward	Yeah, you run it in a java engine.	02:10
jeward	MicroEmulator being one of them.	02:10
jeward	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37799	02:10
MohammadAG	where did you save them using the browser?	02:11
jeward	Location Documents	02:11
Gh0sty	yeah i just open file browser	02:11
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MohammadAG	/home/user/MyDocs/.documents	02:11
Gh0sty	tap n900	02:11
jeward	Can't find them in the file browser or xterm though.	02:11
Gh0sty	open documents	02:11
Gh0sty	and see my download	02:11
MohammadAG	jeward, /home/user/MyDocs/.documents	02:11
jeward	Checking.	02:12
jeward	Aha!	02:12
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MohammadAG	:)	02:12
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jeward	Is unzip something I can install from the applications manager?	02:14
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jeward	Maybe I need more repos?	02:14
MohammadAG	extras-devel	02:15
MohammadAG	WARNING APPLY	02:15
MohammadAG	~extras-devel	02:15
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, extras-devel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#Extras-devel	02:15
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zappa	anyone kn ow a ecent text editor i can install on the n900 that works well forwared over ssh	02:15
MohammadAG	lol Check dependencies of dependencies. (Check complete tree)	02:16
crashanddie	Apple rumoured to buy ARM?	02:19
zappa	I'm one fore gedit or kate. gedit wouldnt install. leafpad has no menus in a forwarded xsession.	02:19
tripzero	crashanddie, i doubt it. why would they?	02:19
tripzero	they already own a fab	02:19
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crashanddie	tripzero: iPhone, iPad?	02:20
crashanddie	"fab"?	02:20
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tripzero	crashanddie, they already make their own chips for those	02:20
tripzero	and ARM doesn't make chips	02:20
tripzero	they just license out the tech	02:20
crashanddie	yeah, they make the designs	02:20
crashanddie	Hey, I'm just repeating a rumour dude	02:20
tripzero	i know. i'm just arguing pointlessly against it	02:21
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zappa	it would be a dumb buy till the knew wheter or not the new mobile atoms they have planned for cell phones are feasable.	02:22
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jeward	What's the easiest way to input a pipe symbol inxterm?	02:23
crashanddie	jeward: blue arrow, control, pipe	02:23
pupnik	add pipe to the term bar	02:23
jeward	Blue arrow control pipe?	02:23
luke-jr	tripzero: Apple's chips are ARM	02:24
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tripzero	luke-jr, yes, but Apple makes them	02:24
dima202	Is it possible to make the alarm work until it is canceled? I believe it stops after 5 minutes	02:24
tripzero	not the ARM group	02:24
tripzero	or whatever they are called	02:24
luke-jr	tripzero: but if Apple buys ARM, they don't need to licence it anymore	02:24
luke-jr	and they can kill WinCE/Linux phones	02:24
tripzero	meh, apple has monies.	02:24
crashanddie	jeward: press blue arrow on your keyboard, then Ctrl	02:24
jeward	Right.	02:24
crashanddie	jeward: a menu will pop-up, pipe is in the top right corner	02:24
tripzero	luke-jr, that comment right there would be a reason why they couldn't buy up ARM	02:25
jeward	Oh!	02:25
jeward	Thanks!	02:25
crashanddie	Apple is sitting on roughly $40 billion in liquid assets	02:25
tripzero	it would run into heavy anti-trust issues	02:25
zappa	@luke-jr but if the intel mobbile pros work well than they bought it for nothong	02:25
crashanddie	(translation: cash)	02:25
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luke-jr	tripzero: Qualcomm buying AMD's GPU didn't have a problem	02:25
luke-jr	yet now Freescale is paralyzed	02:25
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luke-jr	Qualcomm competes directly with Freescale and their purchase of the GPU IP has given them an unfair advantage in the SoC market	02:26
luke-jr	same as Apple with ARM IMO	02:26
crashanddie	FYI http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-23826703-city-aflame-with-takeover-talk-of-arm-and-xstrata.do	02:26
tripzero	lol	02:27
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* MohammadAG added a \| to Blue arrow + up		02:27
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MohammadAG	seems better as a hardware key	02:27
tripzero	well, hrm	02:28
tripzero	i suppose Apple could optimize ARM cpu design to give them an edge	02:28
zappa	Question in my mind is when is AMD gonna get off their ass and make a SoC to compete.	02:28
zappa	@tripzero the chips in apple are optimized	02:29
zappa	@tripzero same way the chip in the n900 is	02:29
tripzero	zappa, but Apple has no control over the ARM design	02:29
tripzero	ARM Holdings does	02:29
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zappa	@tripzero they take the basic design and say what they want. then the chip manufacture produces it as so	02:30
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tripzero	sure, their software may be able to take advantage of specific ARM instructions in ARM chips, but if ARM doesn't have the instruction, Apple can't optimize against it	02:30
tripzero	idk, maybe i don't understand the differences between ARM variants	02:31
SpeedEvil	Apple has ultimate control over the arm design	02:31
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zappa	@tripzero Apple says we want this.. they say how soon?	02:31
tripzero	SpeedEvil, can they add their own optimzed instructions to their design?	02:31
SpeedEvil	If apple approach TI, and say they want an ARM variant that has a hardware mp3 codec - then TI can add it.	02:31
SpeedEvil	As I understand it, yes	02:31
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zappa	@speedevil exactly	02:31
tripzero	that's a dsp outside of the cpu itself though isn't it?	02:32
SpeedEvil	tripzero: you can also edit the core.	02:32
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tripzero	so what's the point of buying ARM?	02:33
tripzero	save a buck or two?	02:33
zappa	theyy make effecient designs	02:33
tripzero	meh, according you you, they already can	02:33
kynky	gettung and edge, stiffling competition	02:33
zappa	arm brought horsepower at low power consumpution	02:33
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SpeedEvil	Buying ARM means little immediately.	02:34
tripzero	if Apple can do whatever they want with ARM, why do they need ARM Holdings?	02:34
tripzero	maybe knowledge power?	02:34
crashanddie	Price	02:34
SpeedEvil	TI et al have bought arm licenses for their current chips - and that will extend out a couple of years in most cases	02:34
zappa	they cant do what ever they want	02:34
crashanddie	And also they will be defining who gets what	02:34
kynky	they could make arm licenses very expensive	02:34
crashanddie	Which means that Microsoft currently looking into ARM Servers? Piss off	02:34
zappa	they can do a walmart on arm and sa i want X units to do Y functions	02:34
zappa	when they put in an order for 10 million units they have a sa in what the hell it does	02:35
MohammadAG	crashanddie, off topic, did you notice the PS3 ToS changes?	02:35
crashanddie	It's funny that this is announced just when Microsoft posts a job for an "ARM System Engineer"	02:35
crashanddie	MohammadAG: I did	02:35
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MohammadAG	Stealth updates (as I call them) are allowed	02:35
kynky	arm doesnt do fab	02:35
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crashanddie	kynky: THE MOON COMES UP AT NIGHT.	02:35
crashanddie	kynky: FLOWERS ARE PLANTS	02:36
crashanddie	kynky: ELECTRICITY ISN'T MAGIC	02:36
MohammadAG	crashanddie IS HUMAN	02:36
SpeedEvil	It is too magic.	02:36
crashanddie	kynky: Oh I'm sorry, I thought we were playing "Let's say things everyone already knows".	02:36
MohammadAG	:P	02:36
* SpeedEvil inflates crashanddie with magic smoke.		02:36
* crashanddie inflates slowly		02:37
kynky	lol	02:37
MohammadAG	aww, just when I started playing it too	02:37
* crashanddie bursts		02:37
zappa	so you gus see that android is running on the 3g iphone	02:37
* crashanddie shoots around the room, venting magic smoke		02:37
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* crashanddie rubs against SpeedEvil's leg, like a dog with a postman		02:38
* MohammadAG would rather not imagine that		02:38
* SpeedEvil takes crashanddie to the vet.		02:39
crashanddie	nooooooooooooooo	02:40
* MohammadAG drinks a bottle of beer		02:40
crashanddie	I promise I'll be good	02:40
crashanddie	I'll walk myself	02:40
crashanddie	flush	02:40
crashanddie	do my business in the toilet	02:40
crashanddie	pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase	02:40
MohammadAG	"business", wonder what that means	02:41
crashanddie	number one and number two	02:41
zappa	so any favorite methods of making a network share on the n900?	02:42
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tripzero	electricity is too magic!	02:43
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crashanddie	zappa: mind qualifying that?	02:46
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zappa	crahsanddie: basically i wanna work on rub files on the n900 and edit them on y netbook. sshd did not work for me so i was thinking a basic smb share would.	02:48
zappa	me	02:48
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crashanddie	zappa: wifi + sshd + mount ssh://whatever	02:50
crashanddie	zappa: or usb networking + sshd + mount	02:50
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zappa	@crashanddie i did that but when i do it i have no files	02:51
crashanddie	whadyamean you have no files?	02:51
crashanddie	You fail, is all.	02:51
zappa	that could be	02:52
zappa	one sec	02:52
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dima202	Is it possible to make the speakers louder somehow?	02:53
crashanddie	dima202: wrap tinfoil around your N900	02:54
crashanddie	add a bit of olive oil	02:54
crashanddie	bake in oven at 180C for about 25 minutes	02:54
crashanddie	Serve with fresh potato salad.	02:54
zappa	@crashaddie actaully i jsut retried sshfs and the files are there this time... dunno why. but thanks for making me check again	02:54
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dima202	crashanddie: do you enjoy acting like a child?	02:55
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lcuk	dima202, make optimal use of speakers by placing them in a direction that funnels the sound towards your ears	02:55
lcuk	stop loss out sound by using a cone	02:56
zappa	2 strings 4 cups	02:56
lcuk	strap them to your head even	02:56
Lumpio-	2 girls 1 ... oh wait	02:56
crashanddie	dima202: unless you boost the loundess of your music files, I doubt there's a way to increase speaker output	02:56
tripzero	then you just get distortion	02:56
dima202	lcuk: I remember increasing speaker output on my powerbook a while back.. but i can't recall how	02:56
zappa	alsa mixer from comman prompy	02:57
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dima202	alsa mixer is at 100% and wont go any higher	02:57
lcuk	plug speakers back into your powerbook then	02:57
Lumpio-	Use a monster cable	02:57
dima202	heh, i sold that laptop a few years back	02:58
crashanddie	Lumpio-: Results 1 - 10 of about 20,900 for 2 girls 1 ellipsis	02:58
lcuk	some sound cards to have a boost thingy, but ive not encountered one on n900	02:58
zappa	@dima202 if alsa mixer is at 100% for all the outpusts than i think u are screwed. but if there is a soultio u should be universal across all linux installations desktop and all.	02:58
crashanddie	dima202: so back to my initial statement: Not possible.	02:58
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crashanddie	dima202: also, lighten up, what's so wrong about a joke?	02:59
* MohammadAG needs testers http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/noor/0.8-4/		02:59
crashanddie	zappa: don't use @ in front of nicknames, it disrupts highlighting	02:59
MohammadAG	though I doubt anyone would test it, not a huge group of interested people	02:59
lcuk	my ubuntu audio slider near clock goes to max	02:59
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lcuk	but if i open prefs by right clicking, i can go to 150%	02:59
zappa	MohammadAG: is it in english or arabic or french?	03:00
crashanddie	lcuk: yeah, it's the bathtub system	03:00
lcuk	?	03:00
lcuk	its wrong	03:00
dima202	yeah looks like there is no way. I have no problem listening to music at 100% or movies.. but alarm is so quiet... I tried different alarm clocks and they just wont bother my sleep at all	03:00
MohammadAG	zappa, english translation package available	03:00
MohammadAG	also in -testing	03:00
lcuk	dima202, use a sample recorded higher	03:01
lcuk	foghorn1.mp3	03:01
zappa	@mohammadAG I have a buddy who is Islamic and he could check it out tomoorow perhpas	03:01
lcuk	or something :D	03:01
crashanddie	dima202: same problem here, I overslept quite a few times because I simply don't hear the N900	03:01
MohammadAG	zappa, thanks :)	03:01
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crashanddie	dima202: I had to resort to installing some alam clock app on my mbp -- that one is loud enough.	03:01
dima202	mac book pro?	03:02
crashanddie	MohammadAG: I thought the dutch translation was pretty dodgy at times	03:02
crashanddie	dima202: yup	03:02
zappa	MohammadAG: suppose I could downlaoad the englosh and check it out just the same though.	03:02
dima202	got ya	03:02
MohammadAG	crashanddie, you tried it?	03:02
crashanddie	MohammadAG: but then again, I've never used a computer in dutch, so i don't know if those were the standard terms used in computing, but it sounded really awkward.	03:02
crashanddie	MohammadAG: no, I just followed the thread on TMO, and looked at the .po file from the guy who offered the dutch translation	03:03
MohammadAG	crashanddie, so it wasn't really good?	03:03
MohammadAG	I didn't translate it obviously	03:03
crashanddie	well, again, I've never used a dutch computer, so i don't know if the terms are standard	03:03
MohammadAG	neither do I	03:03
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crashanddie	but if they are, damn, dutch translators did a really silly job years ago -- however that's too late to change now	03:03
MohammadAG	I just added the .po file	03:03
crashanddie	MohammadAG: it's better than nothing, and you can easily understand what it means	03:04
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MohammadAG	do tell	03:04
GAN900	iPad makes a nice crossword puzzle machine	03:04
crashanddie	MohammadAG: but yeah, it felt like they had used exact transliterations for most terms	03:04
zappa	Downloading Noor now... Feel like I'm gonna get hassled more at the airport suddenly	03:04
crashanddie	MohammadAG: might be worthwhile asking a native dutch to check it out... (poke X-Fade)	03:04
MohammadAG	crashanddie, so they sounded weird?	03:04
MohammadAG	well you poked him, no point in poking him again :)	03:05
Arkenoi	any ideas how to renice modest forever?	03:05
crashanddie	MohammadAG: not the islamic terms, those were spot on, just the "Go to x" and such	03:05
crashanddie	MohammadAG: he's sleeping now, you'll have to wait for a more decent time	03:06
MohammadAG	ah kk	03:06
SpeedEvil	Arkenoi: IIRC it's started in /etc/X11/x11.post/* or something	03:06
SpeedEvil	you could just start it under nice	03:06
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Arkenoi	grep -r modest /etc/X11/Xsession.post/ -- nothing :-(	03:07
SpeedEvil	Actually - no	03:08
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zappa	MohammadADG my firs recation would be to allow scrolling without the scrollbar.	03:08
SpeedEvil	maybe it's started by the desktop	03:08
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zappa	MohammadADG: ack im in full screen and can't get out	03:10
MohammadAG	F	03:10
MohammadAG	zappa, I'm working on scrolling	03:10
MohammadAG	can't find enough pyGTK examples (except pygtkeditor)	03:10
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MohammadAG	zappa, press F (it says that)	03:10
zappa	MohammadAG: thanks. f worked, I dont think the prompt told me aboujt that though.	03:12
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MohammadAG	zappa, enter full screen mode again	03:12
MohammadAG	there should be a promt	03:12
crashanddie	dima202: yes, macbook pro	03:12
MohammadAG	prompt*	03:12
zappa	MohammadAG: I think its a neat application and a handy one at that.	03:12
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MohammadAG	handy indeed, needed it for school which is why I ported it	03:12
zappa	MohammadAG: my bad it did say F to exit. Those yellow medsages go b so fast though.	03:13
MohammadAG	hildon's fault :P	03:13
zappa	aye	03:13
zappa	MohammadAG: I dunno if theres different parayers that are said 5 times a day but maybe sugest a prayer at a certain time?	03:14
MohammadAG	I can change it to the yellow wide one which shows in the center	03:14
crashanddie	MohammadAG: you can define the duration, or if the user should tap it out	03:14
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MohammadAG	zappa, there's already an app for it	03:14
MohammadAG	crashanddie, using dbus-send?	03:14
crashanddie	though, banners should not be used for usability pointers	03:14
MohammadAG	I'm assuming that's a banner?	03:15
zappa	MohammaDG: I gotta eat but I'll have my buddy check it out tomorrow. Keep up the good work.	03:15
MohammadAG	thanks :)	03:16
crashanddie	MohammadAG: yes, that's a banner	03:16
crashanddie	basically, usability pointers should be displayed as part of your application -- not through popups or anything	03:17
MohammadAG	crashanddie, proposed method is?	03:17
crashanddie	MohammadAG: that would be like mplayer loading up a webpage telling you how to pause the video	03:17
crashanddie	overlay is usually a good idea	03:17
* MohammadAG says huh		03:17
crashanddie	Or as part of the "start menu'	03:17
crashanddie	Or make it intuitive xD	03:18
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crashanddie	for example up down move the page, left right do the same as page down, page up	03:18
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MohammadAG	I swear that word didn't exist/wasn't used till the iPhone came out	03:18
crashanddie	intuitive?	03:18
MohammadAG	ye	03:18
crashanddie	maybe because you never cared about user experience ;)	03:18
MohammadAG	I never care about that :)	03:19
crashanddie	but UX has been on the forefront of the mobile industry for quite some time	03:19
MohammadAG	I was going to uninstall hildon application manager	03:19
MohammadAG	but mp-fremantle-generic-pr needed it	03:19
crashanddie	also, use the backspace key to get back to the main menu	03:19
MohammadAG	(simply because I don't use it, and it's slow)	03:19
MohammadAG	crashanddie, main menu?	03:19
crashanddie	space is page down as well	03:20
crashanddie	MohammadAG: I haven't looked at your app, but I would definitely implement a main menu	03:20
MohammadAG	crashanddie, left/right aren't page up down	03:20
MohammadAG	wait wait wait	03:20
MohammadAG	what are we talking about lol	03:20
MohammadAG	thought you were talking about my app	03:20
crashanddie	I am	03:20
MohammadAG	up/down are up and down	03:20
MohammadAG	left/right aren't	03:20
crashanddie	but I never used it, so I'm just giving general ideas about usability	03:21
MohammadAG	space is down	03:21
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crashanddie	well, implement it: left and right should be up/down, but a lot quicker than up/down	03:21
MohammadAG	well I'm still trying to figure out pygtkeditor's code (it's a pain for newbies lol)	03:21
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* MohammadAG digs through noor's code		03:21
crashanddie	ask Khertan, he'll come online in roughly 6 hours	03:21
crashanddie	or later, 8-9 hours from now	03:21
MohammadAG	wow, you know when users wake up/go to sleep?	03:21
MohammadAG	:P	03:22
crashanddie	yeah	03:22
MohammadAG	now that's magic :P	03:22
MohammadAG	(less magical than the iPad though)	03:22
crashanddie	I just know where they live ;)	03:22
MohammadAG	does it matter :)	03:22
MohammadAG	it's 3:22 AM here	03:23
crashanddie	for example, dneary should be sleeping, but currently he's stuck in SF, so he might just pop n	03:23
crashanddie	pop in	03:23
dneary	crashanddie, You called?	03:23
crashanddie	see, told you	03:23
dneary	I'm here already	03:23
MohammadAG	lol	03:23
MohammadAG	SF?	03:23
MohammadAG	only sf I know is symbian-freak	03:23
crashanddie	MohammadAG: think city	03:24
MohammadAG	san fransisco	03:24
crashanddie	MohammadAG: largest asian community outside of asia	03:24
crashanddie	yay!	03:24
MohammadAG	lol it's just uncommon	03:24
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MohammadAG	mostly everyone's from europe	03:24
crashanddie	again, uncommon for you	03:24
crashanddie	Think Global (r)	03:24
MohammadAG	uncommon for the interwebs actually :)	03:25
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* MohammadAG gulps		03:25
MohammadAG	did I do something wrong? :P	03:25
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MohammadAG	crashanddie, another thing that bugged me in the app was the sura chooser	03:27
MohammadAG	it has black bars surrounding it	03:28
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crashanddie	MohammadAG: as i said, I havent' seen your app as of yet	03:34
MohammadAG	crashanddie, do you know what the arrows are defined as?	03:34
MohammadAG	seems like left and right are defined in the source, but they don't work in the app	03:35
MohammadAG	gtk.keysyms.Down: _next_line,	03:35
MohammadAG	up is _prev_line	03:35
MohammadAG	meaning the up and down keys actually scroll by numbers (not one line at a time)	03:35
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Macer	hm. n900 does support an su8w right?	04:11
Macer	or should i say bt hid?	04:11
acidjazz	that or get a diff phone	04:16
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MohammadAG	Macer, it does	04:17
MohammadAG	Macer, remove input from disabled modules in /etc/bluetooth/main.conf	04:18
* Arkenoi thinks on fresnel zoom lens for n900, Terry Gilliam style		04:18
MohammadAG	(will break the sixaxis support thing)	04:18
MohammadAG	anyways I'm off	04:19
MohammadAG	gnite	04:19
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crashanddie	Arkenoi: lmao	04:36
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crashanddie	Looks like the weed state finally pays for its mistakes: "Burglars break into prison to rob absent inmates; It would make a good gag for a comedy if it weren't actually true: thieves have broken into a Dutch prison to steal the inmates' televisions."	05:03
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KnightStalker	Hello	06:35
KnightStalker	Anyone around who can help me with the weird Easy Debian issue?	06:36
* DocScrutinizer reading backscroll, had a few good laughs on crashanddie's comments, and wonders if the aforementioned changed his medics recently, and if so, then what are the new ones and where to get		06:36
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: nope, never taken any medics, and hence not stopped	06:37
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: though, just feeling a lot more relaxed lately, as I know I'll be going back to the family and Europe in just over a week.	06:37
crashanddie	KnightStalker: nobody can help you if the only information you provide is "weird issue"	06:40
KnightStalker	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50800&goto=newpost	06:40
crashanddie	KnightStalker: I'll admit people in this channel are generally very good, but still; you're asking for a miracle there.	06:40
KnightStalker	Sorry for that,thats because last time that I completely said everything about my issue	06:40
KnightStalker	I was kind of ignored,even by waiting about an hour no one replied to me	06:41
KnightStalker	so this time I just checked if someone is listining to me?	06:41
KnightStalker	:P	06:41
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KnightStalker	the problem is that,I downloaded Easy Debian image file more then 10 times and everytime the thing I get is the file is corrupt	06:41
KnightStalker	I did download via download manager of my computer and my mobile	06:42
KnightStalker	and I receive many things via my download manager,they are all fine	06:42
KnightStalker	and in fact,downloading something 10 times makes sure that the problem is from some where else	06:42
crashanddie	qole.org?	06:42
crashanddie	Where are you downloading it from?	06:42
KnightStalker	so,the question is,what the problem is?	06:42
KnightStalker	qole.org	06:42
KnightStalker	yes	06:42
crashanddie	Sadly qole didn't put the hashes on the server	06:43
KnightStalker	:\	06:44
crashanddie	Could be the image on the server is correct, but that would surprise me considering other people use it without issues	06:44
crashanddie	How are you transferring it to your N900?	06:44
KnightStalker	With USB	06:45
KnightStalker	and also some of the downloads were directly from my mobile	06:45
crashanddie	PC Suite or Mass Storage?	06:45
KnightStalker	Mass Storgae	06:45
KnightStalker	Storage*	06:45
KnightStalker	I don't like PC suite mode...	06:45
KnightStalker	but if its needed why not :P	06:45
crashanddie	No no	06:45
crashanddie	What's the full error message, exactly?	06:46
KnightStalker	wait	06:46
* crashanddie waits		06:48
KnightStalker	"debian 5/6 image with working audo(Main server)seems corrupted"	06:48
KnightStalker	and then click ok to retry and cancel to keep the file	06:48
KnightStalker	:\	06:48
crashanddie	working audo(	06:48
crashanddie	?	06:49
KnightStalker	Yes	06:49
KnightStalker	it was exactly what it said	06:49
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crashanddie	sure it doesn't say "working audio (Main server) "	06:50
crashanddie	I see a german forum where some guy has the same problem as you	06:51
crashanddie	do you read german?	06:51
KnightStalker	Eh,no	06:51
KnightStalker	but I can use google translate	06:51
crashanddie	http://www.usp-forum.de/nokia-n900-forum/47086-probleme-bei-der-installation-von-easy-debian.html	06:51
crashanddie	Well, i can translate	06:52
crashanddie	they say that if you uncompress the lzma image, you should have a package roughly 2GB in size	06:52
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KnightStalker	and?	06:52
crashanddie	Then they say to just run debian, and leave it running for the night	06:52
crashanddie	that what you did?	06:52
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KnightStalker	well,I didn't uncompress the lzma image file	06:53
KnightStalker	they said just run debian,but without that image file it says mount failure	06:53
crashanddie	wanna try it?	06:53
crashanddie	(at this point... you might as well)	06:54
KnightStalker	I will... :P	06:54
KnightStalker	its better then downloading it again </3	06:54
KnightStalker	how can I extract lzma image files anyway?	06:55
crashanddie	7z	06:55
crashanddie	or lzma :0	06:55
KnightStalker	oh okay	06:55
crashanddie	what documentation are you following?	06:55
KnightStalker	I am not following any :P,I am just extracting lzma file as you said	06:56
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KnightStalker	I don't like this freenode country restricted message...	06:57
crashanddie	what message?	06:59
crashanddie	eh?	06:59
KnightStalker	see it yourself	07:01
KnightStalker	http://sourceforge.net/t7.php	07:01
KnightStalker	"Your request is being denied as it appears to be coming from a location banned by our Terms of Use."	07:01
KnightStalker	I used proxy ;)	07:01
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KnightStalker	data error file is broken :o	07:02
crashanddie	not freenode	07:03
crashanddie	that's sourceforge	07:03
KnightStalker	poor me	07:04
KnightStalker	oh,I said freenode :p	07:04
KnightStalker	sourceforge*	07:04
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* Trizt wonder why someone would have mentioned him... but sadly too small history to see it ...		07:36
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petteri	Trizt: room is logged: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog	07:41
Trizt	thanks	07:42
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dragon900	was anyone ever able to run java applets in the browser on the n900?	07:43
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Trizt	petteri, do you know which time zone the time is logged for?	07:43
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Trizt	dragon900; never tried, but I doubt that there was a java plug-in for the browser... but I can't be wrong	07:46
dragon900	Trizt: 0:36 EST = 7:36 log time	07:46
dragon900	DST*	07:46
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RST38h	Hmmmm...Second time during a week, I find the phone in the morning with inoperational networking. Only reboot saves the day.	07:57
RST38h	WTF? And why now?	07:57
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Mace_N900	good evening	07:59
ds3	RST38h: I have seen that	08:00
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Trizt	RST38h; you have had bluetooth enabled at the same time? Those cases I have had both network and bluetooth enabled I got similar proplems	08:01
RST38h	EHLO Macer	08:01
Mace_N900	hey	08:02
* RST38h does have BT enabled, but he had it enable for months now		08:02
Mace_N900	another night of tinkering with my n900	08:02
Mace_N900	:)	08:02
Mace_N900	trying to find out where in xchat you set the color of the txt you type... it is like a dark gray	08:03
RST38h	Macer: It is a fixed color number from the palette	08:04
RST38h	Macer: Something like color 8	08:04
RST38h	Macer: The gray I selected is more of a compromise color, making it lighter will screw up other things, making it darker will make text addressed to yourself unreadable	08:04
Trizt	shouldn't it work like the none maemo xchat, I have white for both me and all your replies	08:06
Mace_N900	ah ok	08:09
Mace_N900	no big deal.. just thought it was a little dark	08:09
Mace_N900	still crossing the fingers for a portrait desktop ;)	08:09
Mace_N900	i think the battery life on this thing is great	08:09
Mace_N900	my g1 would last like 2 hours when heavily used	08:10
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Mace_N900	although it did have a better qwerty	08:10
Trizt	yesterday I thought my battery had gone bad, when it was time to go home from work the battery was almost empty and I hadn't even been online, but then I noticed that it had been playing music all day	08:12
Mace_N900	haha	08:12
Mace_N900	yeah.. it lasts a long time	08:13
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Mace_N900	at least i think it does	08:13
Trizt	I got myself a porportia extra battery	08:13
Mace_N900	someone here was saying there is a 3500mah for it but you cant use the cam or sd slot	08:14
Mace_N900	haha	08:14
Mace_N900	wtf?	08:14
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RST38h	you can use the cam	08:15
Mace_N900	oh?	08:15
RST38h	it looks monstrously though	08:15
Mace_N900	hahaha	08:16
Mace_N900	im sure	08:16
RST38h	they basically have a HOLE for the camera	08:16
RST38h	deep hole too	08:16
Trizt	any url ?	08:19
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opdf2	anyone used to have a sony ericsson k800i or k790i?	08:20
Trizt	a couple of works ago, horrible things those se-phones	08:21
opdf2	how does the n900 camera compare to them? i used those for awhile.	08:21
opdf2	nm the xenon flash	08:22
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RST38h	moo tekojo	08:22
Trizt	never used them to take photos, just used them to try out mobile solutions	08:22
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RST38h	opdf2: n900 camera is obviously better, but still worse than a real point&shoot	08:23
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opdf2	RST38h: u used a k800 or k790?	08:23
tekojo	Top of the morning to you RST38h!	08:23
RST38h	opdf2: got to fondle k800	08:24
opdf2	RST38h: i see	08:24
RST38h	opdf2: standard candy bar, nothing spectacular, standard crappy phone camera	08:24
RST38h	opdf2: N900 camera fares better than that, but do not expect miracles	08:25
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opdf2	RST38h: okay cool i was just wondering. i like the n900 camera	08:25
RST38h	"The primary criteria for the shuttles' location will be the stability of the site and whether the chosen institutions can exhibit them for the next 500 years."	08:27
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RST38h	Mhm...NASA expects US to stick around for the next 500 years...	08:27
naxu	at least someone is doing long term planning	08:28
RST38h	That's more of a wishful thinking thing though.	08:29
RST38h	Given the range :)	08:29
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Trizt	time to get to work :(	08:32
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opdf2	whats the color depth of n900. gsmarena says 65k. i thought it was 16m	09:02
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opdf2	nm nokia says 65k	09:03
Corsac	(II) FBDEV(0): Creating default Display subsection in Screen section	09:04
Corsac	"Default Screen Section" for depth/fbbpp 16/16	09:04
Corsac	(==) FBDEV(0): Depth 16, (==) framebuffer bpp 16	09:04
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pollitishin	Kherton: I noticed in the python optimization thread on TMO you mention 'khteditor'	09:10
pollitishin	is that like PyGtKEditor, just in Qt, or for writing Qt code?	09:10
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pollitishin	Khertan: is 'kheditor' something which is now available for maemo 4/5 ?	09:12
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Stskeeps	wtf @ people 'hey dont distrub me with ur mails yaaaaaaaaaaaa'	09:19
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crashanddie	Stskeeps: I wtf'd too	09:21
Stskeeps	especially since it's not first time it has happened	09:22
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crashanddie	At least he didn't top-quote	09:23
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TigerTael	top-quoting is inexcusable.	09:25
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crashanddie	well, the problem is that most corporate mail clients don't support anything else	09:27
crashanddie	Outlook 2003 and 2007: Impossible to not top-quote	09:27
Stskeeps	i'm still wondering if there's a good reply-to thing in gmai	09:27
Stskeeps	l	09:27
crashanddie	Lotus Notes: Impossible to not top-quote (if you want to quote at all)	09:27
crashanddie	Stskeeps: what, you mean setting the RT to another value than the default?	09:27
Stskeeps	crashanddie: well, meego-dev always catches me replying straight to the person instead of to list, when i don't do reply all	09:28
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Stskeeps	there's no Reply-To: header on the lists, so	09:28
crashanddie	Stskeeps: yeah, but that's because of the list crunching the headers	09:28
Stskeeps	while i don't want to go into that insane discussion, some claimed thunderbird etc handles it	09:28
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Stskeeps	so i'm wondering if i am missing a setting	09:29
crashanddie	well, you can set a generic reply-to per email address	09:29
crashanddie	but that means you need to change that setting everytime you reply to meego, and then unset it afterwards	09:30
mece	hey finland. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEM41srbrWY	09:30
mece	enough said.	09:30
adeus	yup that sums it up	09:31
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mece	quite a shock to get up this morning.	09:31
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adeus	it snowed	09:32
LiraNuna	what's libGLES_CM ?	09:33
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Stskeeps	LiraNuna: libglesv1	09:33
Stskeeps	afaik	09:33
Stskeeps	ie, GLES 1.0	09:34
LiraNuna	I can link to it but can't execute	09:34
LiraNuna	it says it's missing from my device	09:34
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Stskeeps	yeah, not installed by default i think	09:34
LiraNuna	I'm trying to compile one of IT's demo	09:35
LiraNuna	it says it's OGL ES2 but if I link with it it fails	09:36
LiraNuna	(lots of undefined refs)	09:36
LiraNuna	linking with _CM is fine, however	09:36
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Stskeeps	use -lEGL and -lGLESv2	09:40
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opdf2	lol i got an update to install ovi suite to only find out n900 is not compatible	09:45
opdf2	and man that installer eats ram	09:45
LiraNuna	<Stskeeps> use -lEGL and -lGLESv2	09:45
LiraNuna	tried both	09:45
Stskeeps	hmm, ok	09:45
LiraNuna	link errors with those except _CM	09:45
fragment	LiraNuna: what kind of errors? GLESv1 functions missing?	09:46
LiraNuna	hol don	09:47
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LiraNuna	http://pastie.org/private/3mr2kd1yttqghzlzg2t7hg	09:48
fragment	LiraNuna: you need both EGL and GLESv2	09:49
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LiraNuna	fredix, oh	09:50
LiraNuna	I see	09:50
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opdf2	any tips on getting the Vikuiti dqc-160 on without bubbles?	10:01
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oem	hi	10:12
dima202	Has anyone noticed shortcuts dissapearing from a desktop and then they wont show up when you search for it to in desktop config?	10:12
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oem	i m getting core dumped exception during time of executing qt application inside scratchbox ,can anyone help me?	10:14
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oem	floating point exception core dumped	10:14
oem	can anyone guide me how to solve	10:15
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mece	oem, are you running it in ARMEL mode?	10:22
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dima202	,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,	10:22
dima202	sorry about that	10:22
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jacekowski	morning	10:23
dima202	morning jacekowski	10:23
dima202	Have you had any shortcuts dissapear from your desktop after a reboot?	10:24
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Shapeshifter	dima202: not when the shutdown was done properly (device had the chance to save your settings). taking out the battery, it can happen afaik.	10:44
Shapeshifter	(wasn't the 'sync' command for saving these kinds of settings?)	10:45
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Khertan_	Hi !	10:53
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mece	you really appreciate the resolution on the N900 when you view screenshots on a big monitor...	11:14
mece	http://twitpic.com/1hpd9l/full	11:14
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marmoute	mece: what are you porting	11:16
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Khertan_	marmoute: look like might and magic 3 :)	11:16
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marmoute	Khertan_: yop. but I supppose MM3 is closed sources an still copyrighted	11:17
mece	marmoute it was this: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=618352&postcount=50	11:17
mece	it's Might and Magic 2	11:17
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mece	I'm sorta working on getting it to devel but having a hard time packaging it.	11:18
frals	mmm homm, awesome	11:18
Appiah	OH MY GOD	11:18
frals	need to get it	11:18
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Appiah	Awesome	11:18
mece	frals, to my surprise it works very well :)	11:19
Khertan_	mece: packaging is most of the time longer than porting :)	11:19
mece	Khertan_, damn straight. annoying as hell.	11:19
Scelt	mece: HOMM! \o/	11:19
Khertan_	mece: yep ... this is one of the reason that i revoke my garage account and stopping upload to extras-* repository and made my own	11:20
mece	You need the original data files btw. You can buy the gold edition for 9 bucks.	11:20
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mece	I can't work on it right now because a friend of mine slept in my computer room, so he turned off the noisy computer, and I forgot to turn it on in the morning. Dammit.	11:21
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oem	hi can anyone help me to solve floating point exception inside scratchbox	11:31
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marmoute	oem: what kind of fpe ?	11:33
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fragment	LiraNuna: did you get the app to link?	11:35
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oem	not able to execute qt application inside scratchbox and the error is Floating point exception(core dumped)	11:36
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yigal	has anyone played with the aigo n500?	12:01
Stskeeps	nop, you?	12:01
yigal	nope, looks pretty good wondering what price in the US it can be obtained for, at all	12:02
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oem	not able to execute qt application inside scratchbox and the error is Floating point exception(core dumped),can anyone help me	12:03
yigal	probably a smartQ would be about the same for me	12:04
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crashanddie	haha, champion runner caught for doing steroids, claims "the steroids were in a penis enlargement product I purchased over the counter"	12:05
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* SpeedEvil contemplates 'ignore the hose connected to the large winch at the finish line - it's just a penis enlarger'.		12:07
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mortal	when will the n900 price go to half the current one	12:14
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yigal	and the screen size increase by 125%	12:15
MiXu-	In your opinion, what's the current price of N900? :)	12:15
MiXu-	(or in your area)	12:15
yigal	probably too high	12:15
mortal	500 eur or so I think	12:15
yigal	yikes	12:16
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MiXu-	At least 1 year	12:16
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mortal	I have currently nokia e90 as my main phone	12:16
mortal	I will switch to the n900 when it becomes affordable	12:16
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* achipa curses at Nokia Messaging being linked to the SIM		12:17
mortal	and nokia n800 also but it is not a phone	12:17
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nid0	in realistic terms, youll never see the n900 at half it's current price	12:17
mortal	used	12:18
Markus23	or when n1000 comes out :-)	12:18
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nid0	I find it quite peculiar though that you currently own the most expensive phone nokia have ever made, and are now not buying a new one that's 2/3 the price because its too expensive	12:19
achipa	nid0: that depends on where you live. Looking over from this side of the Atlantic, the N900 costs half price in the US already ;)	12:19
mortal	nid0: I bought it used a while ago	12:19
mortal	the qwerty keyboard is verry nice	12:20
nid0	you can get them for $300?	12:20
mortal	I paid 250 eur used a year+ ago	12:20
achipa	no, but 300$ is not half of 550 euros, either :)	12:20
mortal	iirc	12:20
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nid0	$300 is half of what they originally retailed for in the US though afaik? comparing price saving between usd and euro is pointless because theyre more expensive in euros and £ anyway	12:21
achipa	nid0: it was a joke	12:21
nid0	but yea mortal if the e90's keyboard is your killer feature, you should avoid the n900 anyway	12:22
nid0	nokia have never reproduced anything close to the keyboard on the e90, and sadly the n900's one doesnt improve things	12:22
yigal	I say why 3.5" and why a brick it makes no sense imo	12:22
MiXu-	N97 mini keyboard is pretty good imo	12:23
mortal	too bad, then I'll stick to my e90 + n800 combo for long	12:23
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MiXu-	N900 kicks E90 ass hands down	12:23
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nid0	except in quite a few areas	12:23
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FauxFaux	Like, the availability of non-free stuff starting with S. /o\	12:24
MiXu-	Well yes, there are some things that aren't quite ready yet in Maemo.	12:24
nid0	e90's more usable as a phone, more usable as a mail client, has an infinitely better screen, and more usable as a defensive weapon	12:24
nid0	screen = keyboard*	12:24
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MiXu-	lol	12:24
nid0	and looks nicer. :<	12:24
MiXu-	But S60. :(	12:25
Stskeeps	it would be good if there was a choice between s60 and meego on all nokia phones	12:25
Stskeeps	:P	12:25
Stskeeps	well, at least those capable of running	12:25
nid0	meh, needs must. s80 was nicer but wasnt widely enough used for a decent range of applications	12:25
nid0	frankly, the e90 could probably handle maemo fairly well	12:25
lcuk	lol Stskeeps thats just repeating same lines ive been saying for ages :p	12:26
nid0	n900's battery compared to e90 also makes me cry :<	12:27
nid0	same volume, less powerful in the n900, and drains it several times quicker	12:27
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* Torne desperately resists the urge to comment :)		12:28
MohammadAG	lo #maemo	12:28
yigal	come on it's more functional than the neo freerunner what do you want	12:28
achipa	Stskeeps: how many armv7 nokias ? :P	12:29
pupnik	;) Torne	12:29
Stskeeps	achipa: actually i don't know if there's any armv7 symbian phones from nokia	12:29
Torne	Stskeeps: there aren't yet, no	12:29
MohammadAG	armv7?	12:29
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MohammadAG	is that the cortex?	12:29
Torne	cortex-A8 is one ARMv7 core, yes	12:29
MohammadAG	nope, none from nokia	12:30
MohammadAG	they're still using the 434MHz ones	12:30
MohammadAG	11 I think	12:30
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achipa	Stskeeps: plus, 800x480 is in set in concrete...	12:30
MohammadAG	I think the 1st symbian device to use it was the omnia HD	12:30
Stskeeps	achipa: that is true, too	12:31
SpeedEvil	achipa: that'll make it too heavy.	12:31
achipa	MohammadAG: that's ARM11 (v7 is the instruction set)	12:31
pupnik	symbian seemed snappier than maemo	12:31
TigerTael	lol	12:31
yigal	nokia n8x0 arm11	12:31
MohammadAG	cause there are no transitions	12:31
MohammadAG	speed's good on the N900	12:31
MohammadAG	much better than the n97	12:32
SpeedEvil	There is also lack of prefetching.	12:32
yigal	I like beer over speed	12:32
yigal	just a preference	12:32
SpeedEvil	where the absolute amount of data is small - it's rational to eat it as a lump in many cases.	12:32
achipa	Stskeeps: will be fun to see what the stance wrt resolutions will be in the MeeGo ui-s	12:32
achipa	Stskeeps: or harmattan, for that matter	12:32
crashanddie	Khertan_: faut que tu permette aux gens de choisir leur police dans PyGTKEditor ;)	12:32
SpeedEvil	so you don't ever need to load it in where the user may see it	12:33
Stskeeps	achipa: hopefully more flexible due to qt	12:33
achipa	Stskeeps: Not sure it's related to the toolkit... you can make a (sad) fixed-res UI in qt just as easy :P	12:33
Stskeeps	true	12:34
Khertan_	crashanddie: c'est deja le cas :)	12:34
crashanddie	Khertan_: marche pas	12:34
Khertan_	crashanddie: menteur	12:34
crashanddie	Khertan_: le bouton OK ne fonctionne pas	12:34
achipa	i.e. I don't see no guarantee there won't be shortcuts taken	12:34
Khertan_	:)	12:34
Khertan_	gnié ?	12:34
crashanddie	yep	12:34
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Khertan_	crashanddie: oh ... ca marche pour moi pourtant	12:34
Khertan_	crashanddie: une erreur en particulier dans la console ?	12:34
crashanddie	Khertan_: quand je vais dans les preferences, je peux tout modifier, mais le bouton OK ne fait rien... J'suis oblige d'annuler la fenetre	12:34
crashanddie	j'ai pas teste dans la console	12:34
crashanddie	atta	12:34
Khertan_	crashanddie: quel version ?	12:34
nid0	-testing needs more resters :<	12:35
nid0	testers*	12:35
Khertan_	nid0: testing need propers rules before	12:35
crashanddie	Khertan_: 3.0.14	12:35
Khertan_	2s je regarde si la j'ai corrigé ca en 3.0.15 dans le changelog	12:36
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crashanddie	Khertan_: j'ai une erreur	12:36
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Khertan_	ah ?	12:36
crashanddie	dans pge_preferences.py, line 39	12:36
Khertan_	j'ai modifié deux trois truc dans les prefs en 3.0.15 tu peux tester si cela est toujours le cas ?	12:37
crashanddie	f = open(os.path.expanduser("~")+"/.pygtkeditor",'w')	12:37
Khertan_	ah ca sent l'erreur de prefs arg	12:37
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crashanddie	IOError: [Errno 21] Is a directory: '/home/user/.pygtkeditor'	12:37
Khertan_	hu ?	12:37
Khertan_	tu as quoi dans le dossier .pygtkeditor ?	12:38
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crashanddie	history	12:38
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Khertan_	tu n'aurais pas recup un home de maemo 4 avec pygtkeditor 2 ?	12:39
crashanddie	Khertan_: euh... non	12:39
Khertan_	etrange	12:39
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Khertan_	bah tu peux le delete en toute tranquilité	12:39
Khertan_	installer la 3.0.15	12:39
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Khertan_	et reporter le bugs sur http://khertan.net/flyspray	12:39
crashanddie	quoique... J'avais installe ta toute premiere version de pyGTKEditor que t'avais release lors du summit	12:39
Khertan_	ah ... oui ca vient peut etre de la	12:40
crashanddie	:)	12:40
Khertan_	ceci dit ... a fixer tout de meme	12:40
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Khertan_	c'est une hérésie de ma part de ne pas checker avant	12:40
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Khertan_	et d'avoir foutu un execpt: pass	12:40
Khertan_	ah non y'a pas d'except	12:40
Khertan_	c est deja ca :)	12:41
Khertan_	et tu aurais eu la 3.0.15 tu aurais pu report directement depuis l'appli dans le flyspray l'erreur :)	12:41
crashanddie	voui voui	12:41
Khertan_	sinon pour la 3.0.15 c'est pas dans les depot maemo bien sur ...	12:41
fcrozat	this is not a french channel	12:41
Khertan_	crashanddie: http://khertan.net/news_en.php <	12:41
Khertan_	fcrozat: are you sure ?	12:41
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fcrozat	Khertan_: absolutely..	12:42
Khertan_	fcrozat: there is no rules about that in the topic :)	12:42
fcrozat	well, if you prefer to be kicked..	12:42
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie		12:42
crashanddie	seriously?	12:42
Khertan_	rohhh	12:42
crashanddie	you think I'm going to get kicked?	12:42
Khertan_	lol	12:43
Khertan_	rohhh ... the so old admin irc kick war game ...	12:43
fcrozat	I think there are more people in english here than in french	12:43
* MohammadAG requests a kick		12:43
Khertan_	fcrozat: of course ...	12:43
crashanddie	fcrozat: though, point taken, we'll take it in private, however, NEVER, EVER, pretend to have op powers again.	12:43
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie		12:43
MohammadAG	yay crashanddie took his pills	12:43
MohammadAG	:P	12:43
fcrozat	crashanddie: where did I pretend so ?	12:44
crashanddie	19:42 < fcrozat> well, if you prefer to be kicked..	12:44
lcuk	he never said he would be the one to do it	12:44
fcrozat	crashanddie: again, where did I pretend so ?	12:44
nid0	that reads to me that he was just attempting to predict a likely scenario	12:44
nid0	rather than do it himself	12:44
* lcuk nods		12:44
Appiah	oh noes..	12:44
Khertan_	hop hop ... stop flamming ... we will continue our discussion in private ...	12:44
Khertan_	anyway it s wake up a bit the channel :)	12:44
* MohammadAG sees a tumbleweed rolling by...		12:46
* crashanddie plays ennio morricone		12:47
* Appiah takes a ride on a tumbleweed		12:47
* lcuk hits MohammadAG on the head with study guide		12:47
* MohammadAG gives lcuk a slice of bacon as thanks		12:48
* crashanddie removes lcuk's battery		12:49
crashanddie	no iron man for you this weekend!	12:49
* MohammadAG takes crashanddie to the vet		12:49
* FIQ places a huge nuke bomb on the channel. Detonates in: 30secs		12:49
* MohammadAG hears the tactical nuke countdown		12:50
* MohammadAG defuses the bomb		12:50
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* FIQ slaps MohammedAG		12:51
Corsac	hmh, yummy, grsec kernel on n900	12:52
FIQ	s/e/a/	12:52
* frals slaps lcuk with a pig		12:52
* MohammadAG punches FIQ with a Mugen battery		12:53
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FIQ	zzzzzzzzzzz	12:54
* MohammadAG disturbs FIQ		12:54
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MohammadAG	the media player's being annying	13:03
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Markus23	Is there a kernel with jfs?	13:11
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* crashanddie jumps out of MohammadAG's car on the way to the vet		13:14
* crashanddie goes to get dinner		13:14
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crashanddie	fcrozat\|lunch: btw, there are no rules in this channel, especially with regards to language, behaviour and stuff like that	13:15
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crashanddie	fcrozat\|lunch: if you wish to help, you can always draft some guidelines and submit them for review	13:15
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* MohammadAG grabs crashanddie from his nick		13:18
crashanddie	eh?	13:18
MohammadAG	neck*	13:18
MohammadAG	sorry, used to the word nick :P	13:18
* MohammadAG puts him back in the car		13:18
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Arkenoi	nid0: n900 price in russia is already cut in half. when it was just new, the price was $1K, now you may buy it for $500 or nearly so	13:24
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SpeedEvil	That's promising.	13:30
SpeedEvil	By the end of the year, if that trend continues, it should be $180 or so.	13:30
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MohammadAG	Khertan, GPG error: http://khertan.net fremantle Release: The following signatures were invalid: NODATA 1 NODATA 2	13:31
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dubzii	got my n900 since yesterday.... epic!	13:32
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lcuk	RST38h, eep i tried disabling the vibration and stuff but couldnt	13:45
lcuk	can i just remove the notification plugin somehow?	13:45
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MohammadAG	lcuk, remove the .so file	13:47
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MohammadAG	lcuk, /usr/lib/xchat/plugins/xchat_notify.so	13:48
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lcuk	thanks MohammadAG	13:49
MohammadAG	np	13:49
lcuk	but that will revert after next update wont it	13:49
MohammadAG	lcuk, enable the pop up	13:49
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MohammadAG	nah, he's removing it	13:49
MohammadAG	I think	13:50
lcuk	its the middle of the night pings that get us	13:50
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lcuk	i wonder if the plugin can access the preference options	13:50
MohammadAG	lcuk, if you're running a fullscreen app it crashes it	13:50
lcuk	to use those to choose whether to buzz	13:50
MohammadAG	i use DocScrutinizer's method	13:50
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DocScrutinizer	~buzzfix	13:51
infobot	buzzfix is, like, http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/ and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buzz_Fix and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/hardware/2008-August/000267.html ff.	13:51
MohammadAG	lcuk, http://pastebin.com/4XGgBE7v © DocScrutinizer	13:52
MohammadAG	:P	13:52
MohammadAG	i edited the plugin and recompiled it	13:53
MohammadAG	let's say it didn't work out well	13:53
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mece	Grrrrrr aAAAaargh!	13:56
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mece	damn you stupid packaging guides and your annoying assumptions!	13:56
mece	~curse packaging	13:56
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, packaging !	13:56
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amigadave	mece: the wiki guide? what's the problem? i can fix it	13:57
mece	the problem is that I have a Makefile	13:58
mece	that is all.	13:58
mece	it has only make and make clean options.	13:58
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mece	I don't have Makefile.ac I dont have Makefile.in I don't have configure.ac I don't have configure.in	13:58
mece	the guides assume I have something like that.	13:58
DocScrutinizer	~nuke autotools	13:59
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at autotools ... B☢☢M!		13:59
amigadave	well, packaging with just a Makefile is even easier if you just have one binary	13:59
MohammadAG	why don't B☢☢M! those show up	13:59
mece	well when it's done there is just one binary.	13:59
MohammadAG	on the N900	13:59
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mece	amigadave tell me more.	13:59
MohammadAG	(same problem with my app)	13:59
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: UTF-8?	14:00
MohammadAG	doesn't xchat support it?	14:00
DocScrutinizer	nah, that's probably another codepage	14:00
amigadave	you should able to have a debian/<name-of-binary-package>.install	14:00
zokier	probably the font used in n900 doesn't have those characters	14:00
amigadave	and in that file put "<compiled-binary-name> <destination>"	14:00
mece	amigadave, there is no install script in the Makefile	14:00
amigadave	i will find an example...	14:00
mece	ah ok.	14:00
mece	I see.	14:00
mece	sounds nice	14:00
MohammadAG	mece, check debian/rules	14:01
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mece	MohammadAG, there is no debian, so no debian/rules, naturally.	14:01
mece	I did generate one that didn't work though.	14:01
mece	with some command that generates the debian/ studd.	14:01
mece	stuff	14:01
mece	I think I need that install thing that amigadave was talking about.	14:02
amigadave	well, it is one option	14:02
amigadave	there might be a better one	14:02
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MohammadAG	mece, dh_make	14:02
MohammadAG	assuming you used that	14:02
mece	MohammadAG, that's what I did.	14:02
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MohammadAG	it generates a rules file which executes make install	14:03
MohammadAG	so either edit it (or use pypackager)	14:03
mece	MohammadAG, the Makefile doesn't have an install option.	14:03
MohammadAG	then edit it	14:04
MohammadAG	or use pypackager	14:04
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MohammadAG	(works for non python apps)	14:04
mece	oo	14:04
mece	ok..	14:04
mece	waitup	14:04
mece	installing pypackager	14:04
MohammadAG	just put your files in the directories you want to copy to	14:04
DocScrutinizer	jr@halley:~> echo B☢☢M\|od -ch	14:04
DocScrutinizer	0000000 B 342 230 242 342 230 242 M \n	14:04
DocScrutinizer	e242 a298 98e2 4da2 000a	14:04
mece	ok, have pypackager..	14:05
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MohammadAG	mece, if it helps http://pastebin.com/Bxf3kcux	14:06
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mece	MohammadAG, thanks	14:08
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amigadave	mece: i had a search and came up with http://www.debian.org/doc/maint-guide/ch-dother.en.html#s-install	14:13
amigadave	but feel free to use whichever technique works for you :)	14:13
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mece	thanks amigadave, I'll check it out. Trying pypackager first.	14:14
mece	MohammadAG, does this pypackager thing still run "make" ?	14:14
MohammadAG	no	14:15
amigadave	alternatively, i would gladly autotoolize your project ;)	14:15
MohammadAG	it copies files under directories	14:15
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MohammadAG	so just put them in a work directory called src	14:15
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MohammadAG	and put the files as you want them to be copied	14:15
mece	MohammadAG, but they are c++ source files	14:15
MohammadAG	example: src/usr/bin/app	14:15
MohammadAG	mece, err	14:16
MohammadAG	compile them then	14:16
MohammadAG	compile with make	14:16
mece	MohammadAG, righty.	14:16
MohammadAG	then copy the binaries	14:16
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mece	MohammadAG, wont I miss the source files in the repo then?	14:16
mece	or err..	14:16
MohammadAG	mece, well, yes lol	14:16
mece	perhaps I'm not getting this correctly.	14:16
MohammadAG	mece, actually	14:17
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MohammadAG	just use pypackager to package it	14:17
MohammadAG	then edit the rules file	14:17
mece	righty.	14:17
mece	I'll try it.	14:17
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andre__	what's the latest hip fashion for MSN on the N900 currently? pecan? pidgin protocols? something else?	14:19
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evilBunny	eya all	14:20
mece	feck.	14:20
mece	cat <binary file> not cool.	14:21
gevaerts	Depends. Did you print something accidentally?	14:21
mece	yep.	14:21
nid0	andre__ they all do the job, personally I find the pidgin protocols plugin the best just for quick integrated chats with contacts, or amsn for a full-featured msn client	14:21
zash	mece: hexdump!	14:21
andre__	crazy. okay.	14:22
mece	took a while for it to finish. there were a lot of "bing" sounds.	14:22
* gevaerts remembers the old days when the default xterm configuration and a default printer together had interesting effects on cat <binary file>		14:22
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MohammadAG	liqflow would be more epic if it acted as a VU meter :P	14:23
lcuk	MohammadAG, thats easy	14:24
lcuk	play music loud enough and put it on a speaker	14:24
MohammadAG	LOL thought of that, but it's not a good way to pass the night :P	14:24
MohammadAG	(night = at 3 AM)	14:24
lcuk	tho in all seriousness i was playing with audio input and think its really really simple to be able to blow on the mic and have the flow move out from it	14:24
frals	nid0: does anyone of them handle MPOP yet?	14:24
KMFDM	i personally use pidgin protcols for msot things but also use regular pidgin for OTR chats	14:25
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KMFDM	and msn b/c for some reason on my mobile provider	14:25
nid0	frals no, and it's my biggest annoyance	14:25
MohammadAG	lcuk, i was thinking something like VLC	14:25
KMFDM	msn wont connect via piidgin protcols but will via pidgin itself	14:25
MohammadAG	it has a software VU meter	14:25
nid0	amsn are working on it, but they havent had any progress recently that i've read	14:25
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frals	nid0: doh, only reason im not using it on my device yet	14:25
lcuk	MohammadAG, milkdrop esq?	14:25
MohammadAG	make the max VU reading the biggest bubble	14:25
MohammadAG	?	14:25
nid0	frals yeah, its the one thing that keeps me from using it properly	14:25
lcuk	theres a milkdrop thread on tmo	14:25
DocScrutinizer	milkymist?	14:26
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DocScrutinizer	http://www.milkymist.org/	14:27
frals	i wonder who came up with the great idea to £ on the swe/fi keyboard instead of & on the n900	14:27
DocScrutinizer	frals: bah, need a German layout? ;-P	14:28
mece	frals, someone who types texts instead of code perhaps?	14:28
frals	mece: how often do you use £ over & when texting etc? :D	14:28
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frals	DocScrutinizer: ;D	14:28
MohammadAG	lcuk, nah, visualizations are overrated	14:28
mece	frals, everytime I ask a question.	14:29
lcuk	ive got liqmic here	14:29
MohammadAG	lcuk, i was thinking about using the keyboard as a vu meter	14:29
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lcuk	tho you have to ask mic if he wants to be licked	14:29
frals	uh, mece i think we have an tect encoding issue	14:29
MohammadAG	(think R&D mode)	14:29
frals	£ is GBP symbol	14:29
DocScrutinizer	no kidding, got me a decent qwerty. If someone needs a German keycaps mat, holler	14:29
lcuk	keyboard?	14:29
frals	text*	14:29
MohammadAG	lcuk, it flickers in R&D mode	14:29
MohammadAG	which gave me the whole VU idea	14:29
mece	frals, whadya mean?	14:30
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: see wiki. You got LED_KBD:1 .. 6	14:30
MohammadAG	engine 3 can be bypassed afaik, since stopping mce in R&D mode keeps the keyboard on	14:30
lcuk	MohammadAG, but thats nto a vu meter lol	14:30
lcuk	and how do you know!	14:30
lcuk	are you doing r&d ?	14:31
lcuk	:D	14:31
MohammadAG	I enabled it once	14:31
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: all engines can be 'bypassed'	14:31
MohammadAG	no wasn't curious	14:31
MohammadAG	needed it for sth :)	14:31
frals	mece: the symbol on they keyboard im talking about is the symbol for brittish pounds	14:31
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, problem isn't the wiki, it's how to detect sound levels	14:31
MohammadAG	without actually using a mic	14:31
frals	mece: or do you commonly put that at the end of every question?	14:31
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: now THAT's easy, no?	14:32
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mece	frals, LOL ok I see. Yes that is completely useless :D	14:32
DocScrutinizer	for a kickstart give arecord -vvv a try	14:32
MohammadAG	lcuk, I know it's not a VU meter (it's system activity), but it gave me the idea	14:32
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frals	seems irssi is molesting my coding	14:32
ebzzry	Hi! Does anybody know if a Scheme (at least R5RS) interpreter exists for Maemo?	14:32
mece	but why not start the trend... what do you think£	14:32
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mece	hee	14:32
frals	hehe	14:33
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, err, weird output lol	14:33
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, why does it keep outputting with no audio?	14:35
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DocScrutinizer	maybe because it continues to record? Ah, and maybe you shouldn't display the raw audio data to stdout	14:36
DocScrutinizer	so 'arecord -vvv /dev/null' might be a little less weird	14:36
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, so it's using the mic?	14:36
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DocScrutinizer	dunno	14:36
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DocScrutinizer	try 'arecord -L -l'	14:37
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DocScrutinizer	to show the valid and available audio devices for recording	14:37
MohammadAG	yeah using mic with that cmd	14:37
DocScrutinizer	that's been my weekend sports for last 3 years (maybe 4), so I almost know by heart the source of arecord/aplay	14:39
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DocScrutinizer	and there one sure thing: ALSA sucks. And even more certainly PA is even worse	14:40
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, there seems to be only 1 device, RX51	14:42
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MohammadAG	card 0: RX51 [RX51], device 0: AIC34 tlv320aic3x-I2S-0 []	14:42
nid0	frals: I was wrong, amsn does now support mpop	14:43
nid0	but it's basic in the extreme, needs manually enabling, and breaks all p2p stuff on msn	14:44
DocScrutinizer	so try 'arecord -D plughw:0,0 -vvv /dev/null'	14:44
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BCMM_	anyone know why canola2 is acting weird for me? it doesn't seem to want to take text input	14:47
Mace_N900	know what would be nice to have... a contact status in the im window	14:48
BCMM_	i'm trying to give it my last.fm login	14:48
BCMM_	i can put my cursor in the box, but i can't type	14:48
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Mace_N900	i need to file a enh req on bugs for it	14:49
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: maybe you need to enable and level up mic in 'alsamixer --card 0'	14:49
BCMM_	same when trying to add an internet radip station	14:49
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, it's still using the mic	14:49
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, is there a way to 'pipe' audio into the mic channel?	14:50
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Mace_N900	and mms	14:50
Mace_N900	heh	14:50
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Mace_N900	i want to be able to send crappy 3gp video	14:51
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DocScrutinizer	Mace_N900: record a video in 3GP format (or transcode), the send to wherever you like :-P	14:52
DocScrutinizer	s/, the/, then/	14:53
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: Mace_N900: record a video in 3GP format (or transcode), then send to wherever you like :-P	14:53
frals	nid0: hmm, the p2p stuff being everything except messages right? :D	14:53
nid0	essentially yeah, you lose file transfers, audio/video sharing, display pictures, custom emotes	14:53
nid0	and probably some other stuff	14:53
ebzzry	Nvm. I found guile-1.8 on -devel :)	14:54
frals	hmm, i can live without those, need to test amsn then	14:55
DocScrutinizer	BCMM_: maybe password input method that disabled echo?	14:55
frals	wouldve been nice if they used proper libraries like telepathy so it be easy to get it into conversations	14:55
BCMM_	nah, does same for all text entry	14:56
BCMM_	found a bug about it	14:56
nid0	frals: I just tried it out and found it usable with mpop at least, so itll do me for now - you are gonna get spammed when you first login to amsn though, for some reason it sends you an "add contact" request for everyone on your contact and allow lists	14:56
BCMM_	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6511 very very weird	14:56
povbot	Bug 6511: Unable to type text in Canola on N900	14:56
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rsadhu	hi all	14:56
DocScrutinizer	hmm, canola really was completely weird when I gave it a try	14:57
BCMM_	workaround works...	14:58
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, what does alsamixer do?	14:58
frals	nid0: doh	14:58
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: fire it up and you'll see	14:58
rsadhu	can i ask some question here	14:58
DocScrutinizer	rsadhu: you already did	14:59
nid0	i'm rather impressed though that amsn managed to open like 150 contact request windows and the n900 didnt just say "fuck that" and crash	14:59
BCMM_	gah canola is generally a bit odd	14:59
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, lol I did but it didn't work	14:59
DocScrutinizer	BCMM_: my words, no?	14:59
MohammadAG	(extra -, but that didn't work too)	14:59
BCMM_	anyone here listen to last.fm streams on their n900?	14:59
MohammadAG	wrong -c argument 'ard'	14:59
MohammadAG	BCMM_, used to	15:00
BCMM_	the website works but is flash so a bit horrid and very cpu intensive	15:00
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: alsamixer -c 0	15:00
rsadhu	@DocScrutinizer: hi , I'vent asked anything yet , i just bid hi to all	15:00
MohammadAG	a gui, nice!	15:00
BCMM_	MohammadAG: how?	15:00
MohammadAG	vagulume (or however it's spelt)	15:00
BCMM_	i couldn't make that stop saying "network connection error"	15:01
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, using headphones, it detects that, can change audio stuff, but still i don't get it lol	15:01
MohammadAG	BCMM_, define settings	15:01
MohammadAG	you need an API key	15:01
MohammadAG	google for the method	15:02
BCMM_	yeah, got one...	15:02
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mece	MohammadAG, amigadave, It's starting to come along :D	15:02
BCMM_	i'll try again carefully if you're saying it works	15:02
Mace_N900	haha	15:03
DocScrutinizer	rsadhu: so shoot, we're wakiting :-)	15:04
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mece	err what was the command that updates changes and changes file in debian?	15:05
Jaffa	mece: dch -i ?	15:05
mece	Jaffa, thanks	15:05
MohammadAG	updates changes?	15:06
MohammadAG	i do it manually	15:06
MohammadAG	xD	15:06
mece	Jaffa, what does the -i do?	15:06
mece	iterate the build number?	15:06
Jaffa	mece: Increments the last version... yeah	15:06
mece	k thanks	15:06
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: sorry I can't help much, no reference system here	15:07
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MohammadAG	oh you didn't get one?	15:07
frade	uhmmm easy question, how can i start a new wiki page in wiki.maemo.org?	15:08
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rsadhu	@DocScrutnizer: I'm having some prob with my qt test plugin in maemo	15:09
lcuk	frade, do a search	15:09
lcuk	and when results come back	15:09
lcuk	if its not there you get option to make a new one	15:09
rsadhu	Whenever i scroll or click on the plugin window and i'm not getting a event to plugin	15:09
frade	aaah! great	15:09
lcuk	http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Search?search=hello_frade	15:09
frade	lcuk, thanks	15:09
rsadhu	which basically is sent by X11	15:09
Jaffa	frade: Of course, if there's a page already there - refactor it rather than creating a new one.	15:10
rsadhu	but same works for symbian , on linux qtlanucher	15:10
frade	lcuk, in this is going to be "i18n python" :)	15:10
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lcuk	oh cool :)	15:10
Jaffa	frade: if it's one you definitely need to create you can also just go to http://wiki.maemo.org/My_new_page and you can create it.	15:10
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frade	Jaffa, ok, thanks... my experience in wikis was always "create a link and then follow it to create the page"	15:11
lcuk	frade theres a thread on tmo at the moment requesting ideas code suggestions for python speedups, if you or anyone else has any suggestions to add it would be welcome - we will write them up into some concrete guidelines for py devs http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50737	15:11
frade	lcuk, my very modest tricks are on code level, cannot help much in the interpreter itself	15:13
N900evil_	'write it in C'?	15:13
frade	but any help from there is welcome :D	15:13
lcuk	frade - code level is find :)	15:13
lcuk	if a young developer reads the resultant thread/pages and gets ideas it will help	15:13
lcuk	N900evil_, bah! not the easiest	15:13
N900evil_	awk then.	15:14
N900evil_	:)	15:14
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* MohammadAG dreamt about PR1.2 today xD		15:16
SpeedEvil	Last night, I dreamt of mandlebrot again.	15:19
rsadhu	@DocScruntiizer?????????????????????	15:19
rsadhu	r u there	15:19
naxu	does anyoen have idea which of the 4 msn plugins would be best?	15:20
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DocScrutinizer	HOOOOORAAAAAY - N900 ready for pickup at repair store :-))))	15:30
Stskeeps	woo	15:30
SpeedEvil	:)	15:30
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DocScrutinizer	cya guys - have an urgent date at other end of town	15:31
reggna	DocScrutinizer: :D	15:31
Khertan_	lcuk: hi ...	15:31
Markus23	My headphones from the n900 were sent back to repair	15:31
Khertan_	lcuk: you are coding in py now ?	15:31
Markus23	they did not work anymore	15:31
lcuk	Khertan_, im working now, no code	15:32
lcuk	but python has always appealed, its just not fast enough for the things i want	15:32
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lcuk	Khertan_, you have yourself a sketch editor in python dont you	15:32
lcuk	could you do a test for me	15:33
Markus23	on my n900 the camera lid is a bit broken, it sometimes shows some metal between the plastic	15:33
lcuk	i'd like a screenshot of you writing this:	15:33
Markus23	but I don't want to send my n900 away just because of this ;(	15:33
Khertan_	lcuk: in fact i ve both different sketch made for diablo	15:33
SpeedEvil	Markus23: you mean the slidy thing is loose?	15:33
Khertan_	on with x11lib	15:33
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.20100409_133726.liqtop1.scr.png	15:33
Khertan_	and one using gtk.DrawingArea	15:33
lcuk	ahh cheating	15:33
Khertan_	:)	15:34
Khertan_	the x11 one is really fast :)	15:34
lcuk	khetthe reason why - i did a quick test using entirely pyqt and qpainter.* and got this:	15:34
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liqmini.qt.Screenshot-20100409-133149.png	15:34
Dassu	I can read that with no problemo	15:34
lcuk	now thats very ugly prototype code, and could obviously be optimised	15:34
Khertan_	strange as pyqt should not be slower than qt.drawingarea	15:34
lcuk	lots of lines	15:35
Khertan_	lcuk: if you want i can try to optimize it a bit	15:35
lcuk	theres many of the qpainter.* methods which are sluggish	15:35
lcuk	i noticed it first with colliding mice	15:35
TigerTael	ouch	15:35
lcuk	i took the colliding mice example which is native qt	15:35
lcuk	and bumped the mouse count to 50	15:35
Khertan_	to be honest i didn't well know qt as i'm learning it	15:35
lcuk	the blocker on my desktop to smooth running was qpainter	15:35
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andi-	anyone can give me a hint on how to capture/record the commands from my remote control with lirc?	15:36
Khertan_	lcuk: let me 5 min i ll try to found where i put my gtk.drawing code :)	15:36
lcuk	Khertan_, sure, its just a test	15:36
adeus	andi-: irrecord?	15:37
lcuk	i know it works in maepad and in xournal and obviously liqbase	15:37
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andi-	adeus: says mode not supported	15:37
frals	love doing assignments in a basic course when ive already passed the advanced course in the same subject	15:37
lcuk	i think gtk is solid for it	15:37
Khertan_	yep but it should work in qt too	15:37
Khertan_	when i see the 2d painting example	15:37
frals	i think im overdoing it a tad by breaking this whole assignment horribly in each step	15:37
Khertan_	it s seems running well	15:37
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lcuk	Khertan_, it might do i had many other more important things to run around playing with	15:38
lcuk	i just picked up pyqt one night and hacked that in	15:38
lcuk	from a hackability perspective i was pleased but perf was poor and would need more extreme optimizations and changes than i had time to consider	15:39
Khertan_	but for example	15:39
Khertan_	i picked up the QHilighterSyntax ... and i m currently making some tests with it	15:39
Khertan_	and got a py source code editor really faster ...	15:39
lcuk	:D cooool beans	15:39
tackat	I doubt that the speed of QPainter has any real impact on an example like this.	15:40
Khertan_	and i can imagine implementing code completion ... something that i ve try with gtk ... but require too much optimization to be fast	15:40
lcuk	tackat, actually...	15:41
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lcuk	that is entirely qpainter	15:41
lcuk	since it just draws lots of lines	15:41
lcuk	very little processing	15:41
lcuk	the text gets less readable as it spends more time each frame rendering lines	15:42
tackat	"frame" ? :)	15:42
lcuk	its a very dumb test and the code could be optimized to not render everything - but shows effect most clearly	15:42
lcuk	use colliding mice on high spec machine for a much nicer example	15:42
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lcuk	a game using qpainter rendering primatives wouldnt work well	15:43
Khertan_	lcuk: send me the source at khertan@khertan.net ... i ll try to optimize it in the train this afternoon	15:43
Khertan_	:)	15:43
lcuk	(you want more than 7 mice running)	15:43
Khertan_	lcuk: a pygame with more than seven sprite is slow too	15:43
tackat	lcuk: well, in Marble we render coastlines, coutry borders and lots of other stuff using QPainter	15:43
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Khertan_	but this is slow because all the screen is refresh	15:44
tackat	lcuk: I don't think your problem is QPainter itself. It's probably something else.	15:44
Khertan_	which is a really bad idea	15:44
lcuk	tackat, most generic qt widgets use qpainter in their render slot, true?	15:45
tackat	yes, for this example there is no good reason to redraw it all the time.	15:45
tackat	lcuk: yes.	15:45
lcuk	hence, speed up qpainter generic methods and you speed up entire qt	15:45
lcuk	save battery life etc	15:45
phellarv	Argh - despotify is fucked up cause of Spotify making changes in the challenges between server and client.	15:45
lcuk	i am aware there are additional methods in qpainter which can optimize experience	15:46
lcuk	calling a drawpolygon function instead of 10 line calls	15:46
lcuk	but that is not my point	15:46
tackat	lcuk: speed of QPainter will depend on lots of stuff (like what graphicssystem you use and lots of other stuff)	15:47
lcuk	its slow on all platforms that i know	15:47
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SpeedEvil	http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8968699	15:48
SpeedEvil	gah	15:48
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Markus23	SpeedEvil: yeah, the slidy thing is loose, sometimes the plastic pops out a milimeter or so and you see a piece of metal below	15:50
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tackat	lcuk: try running your app with the command line parameter "-graphicssystem raster "	15:52
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lcuk	tackat, i pressed the "play" button in qt	15:54
lcuk	how would i run it differently?	15:54
tackat	??????	15:54
tackat	ah	15:54
tackat	you mean qt creator	15:54
Pforce	:D	15:54
tackat	or whatever IDE you are using :)	15:54
lcuk	yes	15:54
lcuk	load colliding mice, change the constant "MouseCount" to 50, click run	15:55
tackat	lcuk: well a guy with your skills should know how to run the app from a console	15:55
tackat	;)	15:55
Pforce	if you want to run it outside the ide, just put the needed qt dll:s to the folder of the exe and just run there, not sure why you would like to do that	15:55
Pforce	before deploying	15:55
lcuk	then go into the paint event and strip out most of the painter.* calls and my super fast computer has mice that no longer judder	15:55
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Pforce	assuming your in windows	15:55
Pforce	linux the .so:s are in your "path" already	15:56
lcuk	tackat :) i am a visual basic developer	15:56
tackat	I started to figure that	15:56
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Khertan_	rohhhh !	15:56
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crashanddie	tackat: no need to be condescending	15:57
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tackat	crashanddie: ;-)	15:58
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Khertan_	ouch 10min for syntax hilighting a 5Mb python source code in PyGTKEditor ... 30s to do it in khteditor	15:59
Khertan_	huhu	15:59
lcuk	lololol	15:59
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lcuk	why have you got a 5mb source file btw	15:59
lcuk	isnt that a bitch even on desktop	15:59
Khertan_	just for test	15:59
Khertan_	:)	15:59
MohammadAG	isn't it instant in gedit? :P	15:59
Khertan_	MohammadAG: nope ...	16:00
lcuk	MohammadAG, for 5mb it wont be instant anywhere afail	16:00
Khertan_	and less on the n900	16:00
lcuk	afaik	16:00
MohammadAG	on my i5 it is, I wonder why	16:00
MohammadAG	:P	16:00
Khertan_	as gedit isn't available :)	16:00
lcuk	build it and see	16:00
lcuk	its standard gtk isnt it?	16:00
MohammadAG	gedit? yeah, but the spell checker is a pita	16:00
Khertan_	of course on my desktop it s instant in khteditor	16:00
MohammadAG	might as well just dump it	16:00
MohammadAG	Khertan_, was just jk :P	16:01
Khertan_	lcuk: the problem of gedit on n900 is the gtksourcebuffer :)	16:01
MohammadAG	32000MHz > 600MHz (slightly bigger)	16:01
Khertan_	32 Ghz	16:01
Khertan_	ouch	16:01
MohammadAG	more powerfuk	16:01
MohammadAG	err	16:01
Khertan_	:)	16:01
MohammadAG	-one 0	16:01
Khertan_	yeah ... but it s a x86	16:01
lcuk	now we know MohammadAG is in some super top secret government lab	16:02
MohammadAG	x64	16:02
crashanddie	Khertan_: is khteditor in your repo?	16:02
Khertan_	worst :)	16:02
Khertan_	crashanddie: khteditor is far from being finish	16:02
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Khertan_	it s a complete rewrite	16:02
MohammadAG	lcuk, i'm with the terrorists :P	16:02
Khertan_	in qt	16:02
Khertan_	:)	16:02
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MohammadAG	using maemo to take over the south pole	16:02
Khertan_	but i currently implementing hook to make plugins	16:02
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lcuk	penguins ftw	16:03
Khertan_	once that done, i ll made surely a first pre-release	16:03
MohammadAG	lcuk, I thought bacon was ftw	16:03
lcuk	on maemo-devel?	16:03
Khertan_	maemo-what ?	16:03
Khertan_	nope	16:03
Khertan_	will be only on Kht Repository	16:03
lcuk	shame	16:03
Khertan_	do the packaging if you want	16:04
Khertan_	:)	16:04
lcuk	im sure someone will if they like it	16:04
Khertan_	i didn't believe in that :)	16:04
MohammadAG	I'll do it if you want :)	16:05
Khertan_	ok ...	16:05
Khertan_	but before i need to finish it :)	16:05
* MohammadAG asks for donations		16:05
MohammadAG	jk :P	16:05
phellarv	MohammadAG: You have a good compile environment for making .deb's?	16:05
MohammadAG	phellarv, scratchbox on an i5	16:05
Khertan_	you can also begin by packaging PyGTKEditor 3.0.15 if you want	16:05
crashanddie	lol... australian politician "The internet is dangerous. Child pornography is readily available, as are drugs and violence" <-- No you idiot. You get out of it what you put into it. It's not like you ask Google "What is the capital of Mozambique", and suddenly your computer asks "Want to see some tang, old man?"	16:06
Khertan_	source available on my repository	16:06
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phellarv	MohammadAG: Could I be so rude to ask you to make a deb out of the latest svn-commit to despotify?	16:06
Khertan_	crashanddie: hum ... not so lol ... we have the same sentence from French 1 minister	16:06
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MohammadAG	phellarv, nope	16:06
crashanddie	Khertan_: yeah, but in France they're not talking about implementing a firewall	16:06
MohammadAG	not rude at all...	16:07
Khertan_	crashanddie: they are	16:07
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crashanddie	Khertan_: eh?	16:07
Khertan_	yep	16:07
MohammadAG	phellarv, does it use PR1.2 stuff?	16:07
phellarv	MohammadAG: Kk	16:07
phellarv	MohammadAG: Nope	16:07
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MohammadAG	cause my i5 is a PR1.2 sdk	16:07
Stskeeps	crashanddie: on page 5 of images.google.com you find http://www.carstenbloch.de/Filip/AA_87847_017.jpg	16:07
phellarv	Oh.	16:07
Stskeeps	which is probably what the guy is afraid of	16:07
MohammadAG	ah so it shouldn't matter	16:07
MohammadAG	phellarv, only GTK matters	16:07
MohammadAG	err	16:07
MohammadAG	that was a very wrongly built sentence	16:08
crashanddie	Khertan_: link?	16:08
MohammadAG	only Qt is affected	16:08
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phellarv	MohammadAG: No QT/GTK - ncurses based client for Spotify	16:08
crashanddie	Khertan_: loppsi 2?	16:08
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: that's the problem with all the ignorant assholes. Internet they don't understand and it's 'somehow related' to stuff they pretend to dislike. So let's kill internet -> problem solved. None of these idiots ever suggested to tear down parcel service to stop bombs in packages. Or ask mail delivery service to scan every letter for certain keywords and keep track of origin of all letters they ever process	16:09
Termana	Stskeeps: WTF - Are you sure thats what you were trying to link to? What the hell is that guy doing to himself!?	16:10
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: the thing is, I'm not against a system that prevents child porn to be transmitted	16:10
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: hell, if it were possible, I'd go for it	16:10
achipa	DocScrutinizer: they don't want to kill it, but control it	16:10
Stskeeps	Termana: images.google.com search for 'What is the capital of Mozambique'	16:10
achipa	DocScrutinizer: which is a sysuphosian task itself	16:10
Khertan_	crashanddie: ouaip	16:11
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Khertan_	crashanddie: http://gendarmes-en-colere.forum2discussion.net/gendarmes-et-citoyens-le-forum-principal-f1/la-lopsi-2-aux-oubliettes-en-2009-redemarre-en-2010-t16615.htm	16:11
phellarv	MohammadAG: Nvm - Gonna get my feet wet, and test out this scratchbox-crosscompile-thingydajingy	16:11
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: the real problem comes from the fact that control means abuse. How tempting is it for any government to start pressing buttons that will censor things they don't like	16:11
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lcuk	about as simple as you kickbanning things you dont like :p	16:12
Khertan_	crashanddie: and from what i hear from the senat 's debate ... is a firewall	16:12
DocScrutinizer	hmm, I have to take the blame for starting to state the obvious	16:12
Termana	crashanddie: DocScrutinizer: They have publicly admitted that they won't be able to track p2p traffic - which is where it "all at" (i suppose).	16:12
Termana	its*	16:12
crashanddie	Termana: no, real hardcore child pornography isn't on public P2P networks	16:13
achipa	the point is it's silly, as they can only fight the medium, not the content	16:13
crashanddie	it's on VPN networks, unknown and impossible to detect from other encrypted data	16:13
achipa	and the content can change distribution channels easily (unlike the tracking/censorship tools)	16:13
Termana	crashanddie: You'll have to excuse me for not being in the know of where the hardcore stuff is suppose to be. I don't intentially try and track where its all at :P	16:14
achipa	crashanddie: now, to wait until someone suggests 'if you have nothing to hide you dont need to encrypt anything' :)	16:14
crashanddie	achipa: bollocks. Everyone is entitled to their privacy	16:14
lcuk	you over estimate the skill level of humans crashanddie, there is plenty of evidence from news of people caught using regular email and websites (wasnt there a facebook group reported at some point?)	16:14
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crashanddie	achipa: that would be like banning envelopes from snail mail "Why do you mind people snooping through your mail?"	16:15
achipa	crashanddie: all it takes is a good excuse to make it look less painful when they take it away	16:15
crashanddie	lcuk: yeah, but that's the miniature parts at the top -- the bits the media can get their hands on	16:15
achipa	crashanddie: no, that analogy is wrong, as technically, they ARE allowed to do that on proper grounds	16:16
crashanddie	achipa: no, nobody is allowed to go through my mail unless they have probably cause	16:16
lcuk	i hope the media doesnt get its hands on anything with this subject matter	16:16
lcuk	frankly its wildly offtopic for this channel	16:16
achipa	crashanddie: that's what I meant under proper grounds	16:16
lcuk	but meh	16:16
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crashanddie	lcuk: good point	16:17
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Termana	Of course, the bill still has to pass through. And even if it does, we have federal election coming up next april :P	16:18
MohammadAG	<phellarv> MohammadAG: Nvm - Gonna get my feet wet, and test out this scratchbox-crosscompile-thingydajingy	16:18
MohammadAG	it's fairly easy to set it up	16:18
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phellarv	MohammadAG: Mmm - It is pretty straight forward yes	16:18
phellarv	MohammadAG: fremantle5.0minimal_armel?	16:20
MohammadAG	?	16:20
MohammadAG	use the scripts phellarv	16:21
MohammadAG	(scripts not GUI)	16:21
phellarv	MohammadAG: I use http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install-ubuntu.html as a HowTo	16:21
MohammadAG	sec	16:21
phellarv	Aha - I skipped the part with the installer-script	16:22
pupnik	information privacy or lack of it must affect what we do as a software community	16:22
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phellarv	MohammadAG: I'm old-fashioned - I like to see (and possibly understand) what is done in the process.	16:23
pupnik	unfortunately, we cant ignore lawmakers. much as we would like to	16:23
MohammadAG	phellarv, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation	16:23
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MohammadAG	phellarv, same, that's why I said use the scripts not the GUI	16:24
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zak_	hello	16:27
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Khertan_	Personnaly on ubuntu i ve used the GUI SDK Installer	16:36
Khertan_	and it s works well	16:36
Khertan_	ubuntu 10.04 32bits	16:36
zokier	asdf. i just downgraded to 9.10 because gui installer failed	16:38
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MohammadAG	Khertan_, mind if I ask you a question?	16:39
Khertan_	yep ?	16:39
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* Khertan_ is disapointed ... OpenSonic run at 12 fps only :(		16:40
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MohammadAG	Khertan_, I want to use the kinetic scrolling window (like the one in your app) for my app	16:41
MohammadAG	not sure how	16:41
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Khertan_	which framework are you using ? gtk / qt ?	16:42
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Khertan_	for gtk i can help you ... :)	16:42
Khertan_	for qt nope :)	16:42
Khertan_	so for gtk i use hildon.PannableArea()	16:42
MohammadAG	Khertan, pyGTK	16:42
MohammadAG	which is why I'm asking you :)	16:43
Khertan_	héhé	16:43
phellarv	Uuuh - good thing I have a 30Mbit line...	16:43
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MohammadAG	phellarv, lol	16:43
MohammadAG	reinstalling the SDK is a pain lol	16:43
phellarv	Mhmm	16:44
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MohammadAG	Khertan_, the app's object oriented, which is also a pain	16:45
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MohammadAG	not sure which part handles the main window	16:45
Khertan_	which apps ?	16:46
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MohammadAG	the N900's small screen isn't helping	16:46
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MohammadAG	Khertan_, http://maemo.org/packages/view/noor	16:46
MohammadAG	(source is there)	16:46
phellarv	Do I really need the X86 target?	16:46
MohammadAG	no	16:47
MohammadAG	for testing yes	16:47
phellarv	Nah - did not think so either	16:47
phellarv	I can test on my N900 - ;-P	16:47
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Khertan_	MohammadAG_: in noorgtk.pyw replace simply the gtk.scrolledwindow by a hildon.PannableArea	16:55
Khertan_	line 87 :)	16:55
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MohammadAG_	only one word?	16:56
Khertan_	i ven't test ... but should be enough	16:56
Khertan_	of course remove also line 83,84,85	16:56
Khertan_	ah now sorry it s for the other window	16:57
Khertan_	:)	16:57
Khertan_	ah no sorry it s for the other window	16:57
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MohammadAG_	Khertan_, is there a way to replace that list with a list that's scrollable with a text box	17:01
MohammadAG_	like the Default language setting in pyGTKeditor	17:01
phellarv	sndqueue.h:10:31: error: vorbis/vorbisfile.h: No such file or directory	17:02
phellarv	Argh	17:02
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phellarv	I'm making dinner for my family, and trying to crosscompile despotify for Maemo5 - who the .... said that men could not multitask....	17:04
MohammadAG_	cd dinner-1.0 && ./configure && make	17:05
MohammadAG_	:p	17:05
Khertan_	MohammadAG_: probably :)	17:05
Khertan_	you can look at the pygtkeditor source code	17:06
Khertan_	it s in pge_preferences.py	17:06
Khertan_	to look in the code you can just install it on your n900 :)	17:06
Khertan_	or take it from my own repository	17:06
MohammadAG_	it is installed lol	17:06
Khertan_	http://khertan.net/repository/dists/fremantle/user/binary-armel/sources/pygtkeditor_3.0.15-1.tar.gz	17:06
MohammadAG_	installed	17:07
MohammadAG_	same version	17:07
Khertan_	:	17:07
Khertan_	:)	17:07
MohammadAG_	use it quite a lot	17:07
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MohammadAG_	I wanted gedit, but I found pygtkeditor	17:07
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phellarv	YES	17:09
MohammadAG_	chicken got compiled?	17:10
phellarv	HAHA	17:11
phellarv	Nope - but despotify	17:11
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Mece	hi	17:12
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phellarv	dh_clean: Sorry, but 5 is the highest compatibility level supported by this debhelper.	17:13
phellarv	Wuut?	17:13
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MohammadAG_	phellarv, compat file in debian/	17:13
phellarv	aah - kk	17:13
MohammadAG_	might be 7 in your case	17:13
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pollitishin	Khertan_ : I noticed in the python optimization thread on TMO you mention 'khteditor'	17:15
pollitishin	is that like PyGtKEditor, just in Qt, or for writing Qt code?	17:15
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Mece	hi	17:15
MohammadAG_	hi Mece	17:15
phellarv	dpkg-deb: building package `despotify' in `../despotify_0.0.0-0_armel.deb'.	17:15
phellarv	Bahaha	17:16
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phellarv	Mark the version-number	17:16
phellarv	\o/	17:16
MohammadAG_	phellarv, use dpkg-buildpackage	17:16
Khertan_	pollitishin: for the moment it s just in the beginning ... but the purpose is to create a full source code editor with the qt framework	17:16
Khertan_	but what you mean by " or for writing qt"	17:16
pollitishin	Wow! thanks for that!	17:16
Khertan_	you will be able to write any source code :)	17:17
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pollitishin	for writing Qt source code, with proper syntax highlighting	17:17
Khertan_	hum ... yes pygtkeditor didn't hilight qt name :)	17:17
pollitishin	nice! keep up the good work.	17:17
Khertan_	but for the moment i ve just the python syntax hilighter working (and working really faster than on pygtkeditor)	17:18
Khertan_	and some basic function like open/save	17:18
Khertan_	i'm working right now on the pluggin arch	17:18
pollitishin	when do you expect an alpha/beta to be made available?	17:19
MohammadAG_	~ping	17:19
infobot	~pong	17:19
Khertan_	pollitishin: if you want to hilight also qt word in pygtkeditor ... you can edit the python.xml syntax file	17:19
Khertan_	pollitishin: nothing planned yet	17:19
MohammadAG_	weird, wifi light just went out on my lappy	17:19
Khertan_	as i'm learning qt :)	17:19
Khertan_	and at least it ll not be before pr1.2	17:19
* MohammadAG_ substitutes never for pr1.2		17:20
pollitishin	so... as they say better unpolished code, than no code	17:20
* RST38h though pr1.2 was cancelled, no?		17:20
Khertan_	ok i reformulate ...	17:20
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pollitishin	btw its possible to get a lot of parts of 1.2 on the phone itself	17:20
Khertan_	it ll not be before qt4.6 is available with pyside 0.3.x :)	17:20
Lynoure	badly.	17:21
Lynoure	One of the pr1.2 fixes was the fixing of battery draining bug introduced in pr.1, and I want it :/	17:21
* Khertan_ is waiting qt 4.6 and pyside binding ... and also mfe fix		17:21
MohammadAG_	RST38h, no, it wasn't canceled, it still has a set target release date of someday	17:21
pollitishin	but a major warning, I installed to many of themz and hads to reflash	17:21
MohammadAG_	pollitishin, did that two months ago :P	17:21
pollitishin	so do you know which updates are safe, and which ones might cause the endless reboot?	17:22
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pollitishin	right now I have just the updated Qt libs, and its running fine no problems	17:23
pollitishin	I updated the rss,a nd also no problems (also no noticable difference)	17:23
Khertan_	hum ... interesting	17:23
pollitishin	the question is is it safe to update microb?	17:24
Khertan_	so i try the evening to install qt 4.6 too :)	17:24
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pollitishin	good luck, just be careful	17:24
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phellarv	MohammadAG_: Where do I set "Provides" in a packages (buildtime)	17:28
MohammadAG_	?	17:28
MohammadAG_	changelog for when the changes were made	17:28
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phellarv	Nah. I want the despotify package to provide bot despotify and libdespotify - for dependencies in other packages	17:30
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MohammadAG_	Android on the iPhone, something else to keep users from thinking about PR1.2	17:31
MohammadAG_	phellarv, not sure what you mean, but I think you need to edit the control file for that	17:32
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phellarv	MohammadAG_: That was my first tought too... but hmmm...	17:33
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MohammadAG_	phellarv, take a look at the frozen bubble source	17:34
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MohammadAG_	it makes two packages, one's for data and one's for the game itself	17:34
MohammadAG_	hi noobmonk3y	17:34
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noobmonk3y	hey MohammadAG_ :D - how goes the programming guru? :D	17:35
MohammadAG_	since when am I a guru?	17:35
MohammadAG_	:P	17:35
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noobmonk3y	since allways, you are just teasing me with your supposed need for help :D	17:36
noobmonk3y	gonna help me with pull my finger?	17:36
noobmonk3y	meh brb phone... again :(	17:36
MohammadAG_	noobmonk3y, if I can	17:36
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Mece	hey ok so I'd like my debian/rules to create a directory in /home/user/ that is owned by user, and then a symlink pointing to that directory. how would one go about doing that?	17:48
MohammadAG_	it might be better to use a postinst script to do that	17:49
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Mece	MohammadAG oh righty.	17:52
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Shapeshifter	guys, I remember there was an option to display the current gps location in the status of all IM connections. I forgot where I found it...	18:11
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congerro	it is behind the status-text-input	18:12
congerro	"My location"	18:13
Shapeshifter	ah yes!	18:13
pupnik	ya gotta moo in capslock some days	18:13
Shapeshifter	I wonder if its possible to use network location only ()[Dno gps[C[C[C[C for that	18:14
Shapeshifter	... sorry about that. funny 2G connection	18:14
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Disconnect	maemo needs to get an air beta going	18:21
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lcuk	Disconnect, cool, code one up then	18:25
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Disconnect	lcuk: sure, send me the flash plugin source and i'll get started.	18:25
MohammadAG_	Disconnect, ask adobe	18:25
Disconnect	oh, wait, thats right, its all closed source and only the nokia employees here have contacts at adobe to do that.. gee... i forgot..	18:25
MohammadAG_	actually, adobe isn't interested	18:25
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MohammadAG_	damn dbus	18:33
lcuk	damn git	18:33
nid0	damn back muscles	18:33
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MohammadAG_	lcuk, git's actually pretty good	18:35
lcuk	its not behaving for me	18:36
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MohammadAG_	slap it with a trout	18:36
lcuk	that leaves a mess on the keyboard	18:36
* lcuk explains problem:		18:36
lcuk	have a project on server A, sequential simple commits. came to update and server A offline. pushed to server B and spent time pushing toserver B for a while.	18:37
lcuk	now i want to push back to server A and keep all the history	18:37
MohammadAG_	that's not too bad	18:38
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lcuk	git tells me i have to kill kittens and stuff	18:38
* MohammadAG_ explains his problems		18:38
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MohammadAG_	I need to get the song that's playing in mafw	18:39
MohammadAG_	~ $ mdbus2 com.nokia.mafw-gst-renderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer	18:39
MohammadAG_	[ERR]: No introspection data at object '/com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer'	18:39
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MohammadAG_	your git problem isn't that bad, wanna swap projects? :P	18:39
lcuk	would be nice for a few days :)	18:39
lcuk	is it warm there also - cos swapping projects involves swapping countries	18:40
Corsac	Stskeeps: hmhm, is bootmenu usable to just boot a different kernel?	18:40
nid0	hey, its sunny in norfolk!	18:40
MohammadAG_	it's sunny in the north pole too	18:40
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MohammadAG_	I think it's sunny for about 6 months there	18:40
MohammadAG_	lcuk, there isn't much bacon here :P	18:40
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lcuk	thats ok	18:41
lcuk	i can cope	18:41
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nid0	...	18:41
Stskeeps	Corsac: with kexec, make a /linuxrc file and use ITEM_LINUXRC	18:41
nid0	how could you move somewhere with no bacon.	18:41
lcuk	nid0, i have bacon in my heart and arteries and kidneys...	18:41
MohammadAG_	that's not healthy lcuk	18:42
lcuk	very tasty tho	18:42
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nid0	I would think barring moving to israel and living without bacon, your git problem might be more easily solved by a more reliable server :>	18:45
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lcuk	nid0, server A is gitorious	18:45
lcuk	:)	18:45
marcvs2	Hi there, got some trouble booting after mv /var /home; ln -s /home/var/ /var	18:46
marcvs2	Phone is not booting	18:46
nid0	looks like you're off to israwl then	18:46
marcvs2	Any hints?	18:46
lcuk	marcvs2, i wouldnt do that if i were you	18:46
nid0	erm. unless im much mistaken, you're left with reflashing	18:46
nid0	as your device is now bricked	18:46
lcuk	not bricked, but not healthy	18:46
lcuk	unless you can get a serial connection into it i think you are a bit screwed	18:47
marcvs2	cool	18:47
MohammadAG_	cool indeed	18:47
marcvs2	I saw some guys dual booting into android	18:47
lcuk	isnt /var required before home is mounted	18:47
MohammadAG_	R&D might help	18:47
Corsac	Stskeeps: hmhm, good point, I could do that too	18:47
* MohammadAG_ adds a not		18:47
nid0	lcuk yeah basically afaik	18:47
marcvs2	I was hoping for a boot from sd or so	18:47
Corsac	at least it'll prevent me to run my n900 unbootable :)	18:48
lcuk	marcvs2, generally for that to work you have to pre-prepare	18:48
lcuk	theres a hole for running a script at boot time if oyu have a file on / afaik	18:48
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lcuk	but you have to have it there before you break stuff	18:48
MohammadAG_	Matan made it iirc	18:48
marcvs2	lcuk, thx, so I'll get instructions for reflashing...	18:48
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nid0	reflashing's very simple :>	18:49
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MohammadAG_	he has/user a .co.il domain, so he might company you lcuk	18:49
marcvs2	Puh,	18:49
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marcvs2	good	18:49
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MohammadAG_	~flashing	18:49
infobot	flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	18:49
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marcvs2	Since here're some experts: I was wondering if there's a good reason for staying with libc6-2.5. This keeps us from using plain debian stable.	18:52
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lcuk	marcvs2, you can try a switcharoo to see for yourself :)	18:55
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lcuk	but might be an idea to keep those flashing instructions handy	18:55
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marcvs2	ok.	18:56
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Disconnect	is there any way to have 2 mail for exchange account syncs? (or any other suggestions for magic gmail contact/calendar sync and an exchange-only email account that has no imap support)	18:57
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mece	ok. made the Fheroes2 deb..	19:11
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Corsac	Stskeeps: the kernel with kexec is the “enhanced linux kernl for power users” ?	19:16
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jacekowski	wow	19:20
jacekowski	mece: is it in repository?	19:21
mece	no, i'm still working on how to create the 3 files I need.	19:21
jacekowski	which is?	19:21
mece	it's some easy command but I can't find it right now.	19:21
jacekowski	what's name of that file?	19:22
mece	changes, dsc, tar.gz	19:22
jacekowski	dpkg-buildpkg should do it for you	19:22
mece	yeah. just found it..	19:23
mece	"unrepresentable changes to source"	19:23
mece	meh	19:23
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wazd	friday night, and I'm at home	19:26
wazd	world gone mad	19:26
mece	what to do?	19:26
mece	grr	19:26
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mece	uh oh..	19:31
mece	hmm can I create orig out of my existing package?	19:31
mece	if so, then how do I do it?	19:32
MohammadAG_	--createorig	19:32
Shapeshifter	till-: ping	19:32
mece	on dpkg-buildpackage?	19:32
slonopotamus	mece: you want smth like dpkg-buildpackage -sa	19:32
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slonopotamus	mece: it'll create all three.	19:33
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mece	k, thanks	19:33
MohammadAG_	mece, no, when generating the debian files with dh_make	19:33
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MohammadAG_	try what he said, I don't use .diff.gz	19:33
mece	err I have the debian files done, I don't want to recreate them	19:33
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MohammadAG_	dpkg-buildpackage -sn -S	19:34
MohammadAG_	or .sa for .diff.gz	19:35
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mece	yay that one made what I needed.	19:35
mece	should I upload to autobiolder?	19:35
mece	extras	19:35
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MohammadAG_	mece, if you want to...	19:38
MohammadAG_	http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/carrying-and-styling/carrying-cases/nokia-stylus-su-37	19:38
MohammadAG_	ironic that it doesn't say it's supported for the 5800/N900	19:38
mece	omg the slowness of garage!	19:39
MohammadAG_	it's quite fast	19:39
mece	ok.. damn it's me then	19:39
* andrewblack_ misses having fifterboy around to help me with small projects		19:40
* mece is uploading Free Heroes 2 to autobuilder		19:41
Stskeeps	andrewblack_: he got a job, facebook claims :)	19:41
Stskeeps	(finally)	19:41
MohammadAG_	mece, go make a cuppa or something	19:41
mece	gotta put the kids to bed.	19:41
Corsac	Stskeeps: hmhm, kexec doesn't seem to work at all :/ (though I'm not yet sure if my kernel is bootable/kexec'able so I'll try with the standard maemo kernel just to be sure	19:41
andrewblack_	Stskeeps: thats good for him	19:41
Stskeeps	andrewblack_: so he showed up on irc for first time the other day	19:42
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andrewblack_	Stskeeps: not as good for me :)	19:42
Corsac	Stskeeps: trying kexec -l maemo-kernel --command-line=$(cat /proc/cmdline) && kexec -e should work, shouldn't it?	19:42
andrewblack_	Stskeeps: thats cool the funny thing is when I was out of work in the past I was on irc more lol	19:42
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Stskeeps	Corsac: i'm not the right person to ask :P	19:43
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Corsac	grmbl :)	19:43
Corsac	you recommended me kexec, I though you had played with it :)	19:43
Stskeeps	i'm about to dive into same stuff	19:43
MohammadAG_	"death to all gnubies" LOL	19:43
Corsac	http://marc.info/?l=linux-omap&m=126119434601815&w=2 seems to say that it won't work with maemo kernel, not sure about the power user maemo kernel	19:44
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Torne	Corsac: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/Meego_kexec_install_on_N900	19:45
Corsac	yeah, I'm following that too	19:45
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Corsac	hmhm, but maybe I still miss the kernel-flasher-maemo	19:46
Torne	well, it says which kernel package from extras-devel has it..	19:46
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Corsac	I have the power user kernel, or something, but I guess it's not flashed so it won't boot it and so I'm still using the not-kexec-capable kernel	19:46
Corsac	hmhm, uname replies 2.6.28.10power-omap1	19:47
Trizt	timeless_mbp; pong	19:47
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Mace_N900	ugh	19:48
Mace_N900	waiting on my new sofas to get here	19:48
andrewblack_	I'm thinking trying to do a Boxee remote for n900 would it be possible to make buttons on Qt ui send commands that urls like http://host:port/xbmcCmds/xbmcHttp?command=<command>(<parameters>)	19:49
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aep	andrewblack_: yes	19:50
Mace_N900	does the n900 do ir?	19:50
Mace_N900	that would be awesome	19:50
aep	yes	19:50
Mace_N900	make an mce remote emulator	19:51
Mace_N900	:)	19:51
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Mace_N900	phone/eharmony	19:51
* MohammadAG_ wonders why the bootmenu now has "boot off hard drive" for the N900		19:51
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Torne	why shouldn't it? :)	19:53
MohammadAG_	actually, it seems the N810 version got installed	19:53
MohammadAG_	cause there's an external HDD option	19:53
barisione	Jaffa: hi, are you around?	19:53
MohammadAG_	why isn't my N900 booting up...	19:53
MohammadAG_	guess I'm gonna need to reflash	19:54
Jaffa	barisione: Yes, but about to run for a train	19:55
barisione	Jaffa: ok, no problem then. I will ping you again on monday. you are the hermes developer, right?	19:55
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* RST38h yawns widely		19:56
barisione	Jaffa: I wanted to ask you if there is any chance that you save the avatars retrieved from facebook in a file on-disk and not encoded in base64 inside the vcard. hermes makes the address book slower and some optimizations I want to implement won't benefit contacts using base64 encoded avatars	19:57
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barisione	but I will explain you the details another day and let you catch your train :)	19:57
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MohammadAG_	so... how do I gain access to the serial console? :)	19:57
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SpeedEvil	MohammadAG_: it's under the battery.	19:57
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG_: I don't have which pins it is though	19:58
Corsac	wait, is /boot unmounted usually and mounted when installing a kernel package?	19:58
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MohammadAG_	SpeedEvil, I'm assuming I need a cable	19:58
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG_: no.	19:58
mece	failed..	19:58
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG_: you need a nasty spring-loaded custom thing	19:58
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SpeedEvil	MohammadAG_: that supplies power to the phone, and has spring contacts that touch the serial port	19:58
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MohammadAG_	which means I need something which isn't in the box	19:59
Torne	yes. serial is not a supported feature for users :)	19:59
Torne	it's there to work with a nokia flashing jig	19:59
MohammadAG_	so I'm assuming this is jtag-like?	20:00
SpeedEvil	no - rs232	20:00
SpeedEvil	I'm unsure if jtag is on there - there have been conflicting reports	20:00
lcuk	SpeedEvil, why does it have to be nasty	20:00
SpeedEvil	jtag is required - prettymuch - if your processor supports it - but not another easy method of in-system programming	20:01
SpeedEvil	lcuk: as there isn't a db25 on the back	20:01
mece	zlib.h not found. Perhaps I should have listed build dependencies...?	20:01
mece	I have no idea how autobuilder works.	20:01
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jacekowski	you should have	20:02
lcuk	SpeedEvil, ah i thought you meant something else	20:02
MohammadAG_	short version is, I can't do it without something extra	20:03
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MohammadAG_	which I don't recall making/buying	20:03
frals	hmm	20:03
frals	Daemon running. Samples: 118 Min: -16 Max: -7 Avg: -7.88983050847	20:03
frals	Daemon NOT running. Samples: 146 Min: -21 Max: -7 Avg: -7.92465753425	20:03
SpeedEvil	Argh - stupid forums.	20:03
frals	i think those are within error margins	20:03
SpeedEvil	yes	20:03
MohammadAG_	SpeedEvil, request a ban, I'm on the verge of doing that on the forum I moderate	20:03
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG_: It's the structure.	20:04
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SpeedEvil	MohammadAG_: For example - I just tried to google 'nokia n900 "serial port" battery test connector'	20:04
SpeedEvil	and got lots of crap coming up from tmo	20:04
SpeedEvil	which was n800 content	20:04
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: there has to be jtag	20:04
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jacekowski	SpeedEvil: everybody uses it for testing	20:05
SpeedEvil	which happened to have a n900 thread in the 'active topics'	20:05
Disconnect	jacekowski: it may exist, but that doesn't mean it comes off the board.	20:05
Disconnect	esp to an outside connector	20:05
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: It's likely. There doesn't have to be.	20:05
Torne	SpeedEvil: jtag is on there, but it probably won't let you use it without a magic nokia box.	20:05
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SpeedEvil	jacekowski: For example, if the CPU bootloader can boot from serial, and report on stuff - it's not so absolutely required.	20:05
SpeedEvil	Torne: you mean on the test connectors under the battery?	20:06
Torne	SpeedEvil: yes	20:06
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SpeedEvil	Torne: I assume you can't comment on the pinout? :)	20:06
jacekowski	but there is lot of other stuff in there	20:06
MohammadAG_	The device is now in R&D mode, doubt it will help though	20:06
jacekowski	that has to be tested	20:06
jacekowski	and jtag makes it easy	20:06
Torne	MohammadAG_: the R&D flag is not related	20:06
MohammadAG_	Torne, not to the serial console yes, to my N900 not booting up, maybe	20:07
MohammadAG_	I think I f'd up rcS-late	20:07
jacekowski	i've got scope	20:07
jacekowski	so i can play around with these pins	20:07
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: jtag is a very nice thing to have. It's not absolutely required though if your device has a CPU supporting serial bootloader.	20:07
SpeedEvil	(having said that - there are a fair few gold pads - so who knows)	20:08
SpeedEvil	err - apart from teh above	20:08
Torne	anyway. the serial pads work if you enable R&D mode with flasher	20:08
Torne	but it's difficult to connect anything to them ;)	20:08
Torne	without weird nokia adapter box	20:08
Disconnect	even if it is there, nothing says it isn't covered by anything up to and including a glue blob. or that some of the pins aren't half a mm or less from neighboring pins, etc..	20:08
* SpeedEvil passes Torne a soldering iron.		20:09
Torne	the other debug/test facilities of the connector are probably disabled for mortals, but i don't know for sure	20:09
Disconnect	it depends on how late in the manuf they use it (or if they use it at all)	20:09
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jacekowski	Torne: you can't disable jtag	20:09
SpeedEvil	I don't see a compelling case for disabling stuff.	20:09
Torne	jacekowski: yes you can	20:09
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: sure you can	20:09
jacekowski	on some devices	20:09
SpeedEvil	(for nokia)	20:09
Torne	It won't be disabled, anyway	20:09
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Torne	It just requires a special sekrit ccertificate	20:09
jacekowski	on cpu in nokia jtag pins are not shared	20:09
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SpeedEvil	at least if the device was designed to have a user-accessible kernel and stuff	20:10
Torne	So it doesn't matter how late in production you need it	20:10
Torne	I don't know for sure on N900, i note	20:10
jacekowski	well, these are just theories	20:10
Torne	but other nokia devices work this way	20:10
jacekowski	i'll play around with it tomorrow	20:10
Torne	It's possible the n900 doesn't have the same security	20:10
Torne	but it seems unlikely	20:10
Torne	nokia are pretty consistent about it :)	20:11
lcuk	Torne, if a "sekrit" certificate is required it must be on the device	20:11
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Torne	lcuk: no, why would it be?	20:11
Torne	lcuk: public/private key crypto	20:11
Torne	the private key will be locked up in nokia somewhere.	20:11
lcuk	and accessible early in the boot sequence	20:11
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SpeedEvil	Torne: public/private for jtag?	20:11
lcuk	ok, so wheres the pubkey, you have all of / available to peek into	20:11
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Torne	SpeedEvil: Yes	20:11
Torne	lcuk: It's not in the filesystem	20:11
Torne	it will be in th especial nokia security crap	20:11
SpeedEvil	Torne: there is a seperate block on teh CPU I guess to do that?	20:11
Torne	which is probably tied to the baseband	20:11
Torne	No, it's probably done on the baseband processor	20:11
SpeedEvil	oh - right	20:11
MohammadAG_	where are conversations stored?	20:12
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SpeedEvil	And you only get the through-loop to the cpu if you wiggle the right stuff	20:12
Torne	yup	20:12
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jacekowski	MohammadAG_: in /home	20:12
Torne	only the public interface of the security doohickey appears on te bus to start with	20:12
Torne	you have to send it the right supplication before it will let you enumerate anything else	20:12
SpeedEvil	I wish it was possible to open the modem	20:12
SpeedEvil	but...	20:13
* MohammadAG_ is thankful that PR1.2 hasn't been released		20:13
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: why?	20:13
MohammadAG_	jacekowski, contacts?	20:13
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: why would you play with it	20:13
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SpeedEvil	jacekowski: For example to be able to tweak 2G-3G thresholds	20:13
jacekowski	you can go to jail for that	20:13
Torne	SpeedEvil: anyway, no, i can't comment on the pinout or anything because i don't know it	20:13
Torne	SpeedEvil: i just know how nokia handset security in general works, in broad strokes :)	20:13
MohammadAG_	sti-console, what the...	20:14
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: For example - if my cell provider has set thresholds so that my phone flips 2g/3g dozens of times an hour - in my house - I can twiddle the thresholds a bit.	20:14
MohammadAG_	nothing about that in the wiki	20:14
Disconnect	jacekowski: thresholds? that sounds more like "I have bad reception so be more eager to go to 2g and less eager to promote back to 3" .. nothing the fcc cares about.	20:14
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: Or so that I can pass the 3g side a list of towers in the area from the software side	20:14
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: to reduce sync time	20:15
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lcuk	apply to be a technical engineer perhaps?	20:15
Disconnect	also, given the amount of radio hackery in the 802.11g world, i still haven't heard of one person even being warned, much less going to jail.	20:15
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: there is lots of useful stuff to be done on that side of it.	20:15
Disconnect	so um, you win the FUD flag for the day :)	20:15
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jacekowski	Disconnect: i heard	20:15
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jacekowski	i got fined	20:16
SpeedEvil	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11/26/wifi_hacker_caught_downloading_child/	20:16
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jacekowski	but i was using 4W booster on wifi	20:16
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jacekowski	i don't know how they managed to find me	20:17
jacekowski	it was in middle of nowhere	20:17
jacekowski	and i was using it for over 2 years	20:17
Torne	SpeedEvil: if you get some pogo pins and do a bit of soldering you can probably make a reasonable device to connect to the serial port and provide the phone with power	20:17
SpeedEvil	Also - there is lots of bad stuff you can do - if you do have access to the modem.	20:17
SpeedEvil	Torne: yeah - I know	20:18
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SpeedEvil	(pogo pins are easily available on ebay)	20:18
Disconnect	jacekowski: ok, so your paranoia is excusable. but srsly. 2 years and a fine :) the jammers are flat out illegal and they are still being -advertised- in some restaurants/theaters in places like nyc..	20:18
Torne	but other than that or soldering right onto the pads (lol) you are probably out of luck ;)	20:18
MohammadAG_	so I guess there's no way to recover from an rcS-late f up - other than a reflash	20:18
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lcuk	MohammadAG_, not reasonably	20:18
Torne	MohammadAG_: you can download a new kernel/initrd image using flasher	20:18
Torne	and then mount the FS and fix it	20:19
Torne	:)	20:19
Torne	you don't have to actually reflash	20:19
Torne	if you feed it a cramfs image as the initfs and specify root=/dev/ram0 it will boot to the ramdisk, and you can fix a broken rootfs	20:19
MohammadAG_	Torne, does the kernel have to do with rcS-late?	20:19
Torne	no, but you can change the boot params	20:19
Torne	there are lots of possible ways to fix stuff, is all i'm saying	20:19
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Torne	they're not very convenient	20:19
SpeedEvil	Torne: sure - but there are no rescue kits.	20:19
Torne	but you can do it without reflashing :)	20:20
MohammadAG_	-b, --boot[=ARG] Boot the kernel with optional cmdline	20:20
SpeedEvil	Torne: at least easy ones	20:20
Torne	SpeedEvil: make one then?	20:20
Torne	:)	20:20
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SpeedEvil	Torne: plz do.	20:20
MohammadAG_	lol	20:20
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MohammadAG_	I have the bootmenu installed...	20:20
SpeedEvil	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11/22/michigan_wifi_hackers_try/	20:20
Torne	SpeedEvil: i've only had the device for ~28 hours	20:20
MohammadAG_	I wonder if I can chroot from mer	20:20
Torne	SpeedEvil: you have to give me a while before you expect me to produce anything :)	20:20
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG_: Sounds like a plan.	20:21
MohammadAG_	ah crap, deleted the lib/firmware files	20:21
SpeedEvil	Torne: :)	20:21
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Torne	random question, btw: is it reasonable to boot a regular linux distribution on the device? as in, a stock copy of debian or simliar	20:21
Torne	i realise the baseband will not work :)	20:21
Torne	is anything critical missing?	20:21
SpeedEvil	Torne: also battery charging won't work	20:22
MohammadAG_	Mer is essentailly Ubuntu	20:22
MohammadAG_	essentially*	20:22
jacekowski	Disconnect: and i suppose they will find you faster if you are doing something in gsm frequencies	20:22
SpeedEvil	which is moderately important	20:22
Torne	charging is important? :)	20:22
MohammadAG_	SpeedEvil, wouldn't loading bme in it work?	20:22
BUT5	hii	20:22
Torne	i can live without chraging	20:22
Torne	er, charging	20:22
lcuk	your n900 cant	20:22
BUT5	somone have free accont at runescpe???	20:22
Torne	lcuk: can boot fremantle again to charge, i mean	20:22
MohammadAG_	wrong channel	20:22
BUT5	#stats zezima	20:22
MohammadAG_	Torne, and if you break Fremantle?	20:22
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Torne	MohammadAG_: hm?	20:23
Torne	MohammadAG_: then you reflash it	20:23
MohammadAG_	Torne, and if the battery's empty? :)	20:23
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: the 'worst case' is an open GSM modem - that is widely distributed. Consider a million 12-year-olds running a 'free' data transfer app that lets them do free data transfer or video calls - using a channel but not through the telco. Wipes out dozens of calls for kilometers - potentially emergency calls too	20:23
Torne	then i borrow a battery	20:23
* Torne shrugs		20:23
* lcuk recharges with coffee and food		20:23
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lcuk	and bacon	20:23
Torne	I am perfectly competent at recovering from cockups ;)	20:23
MohammadAG_	and if there isn't any battery to borrow?	20:23
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Torne	i'm just wondering if there's some reason why it's a futile thing to try	20:23
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lcuk	its not futile	20:23
lcuk	many have booted stock linux on maemo devices	20:24
SpeedEvil	Torne: no real reason.	20:24
MohammadAG_	except getting rid of closed stuff	20:24
SpeedEvil	Torne: I look forward to your reports on win95. :)	20:24
lcuk	most ooh and ahh for a few days, bask as one magazine or other posts an article and then flash back to maemo	20:24
andres	lcuk: only because many people do a thing its not a non-futile thing :P	20:24
Torne	lcuk: well, my phone contains no data and has a simcard in it i don't send or receive calls/texts/data with. ;)	20:25
SpeedEvil	Also there is the meego images - which may be a sane base to start from	20:25
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lcuk	yup SpeedEvil	20:25
Torne	lcuk: i have it as a gadget to mess around with	20:25
Torne	usability as a phone/pda is not relevant	20:25
MohammadAG_	shouldn't ext3 NOT get corrupt?	20:25
lcuk	so mess	20:25
lcuk	grab meego base and play	20:25
MohammadAG_	I hate the N900's battery cover	20:25
Torne	meego doesn't look interesting :)	20:25
valdyn	MohammadAG_: it cannot corrupt unless theres a hardware failure	20:26
valdyn	MohammadAG_: but certain hardware failures arent that uncommon	20:26
* frals steals lcuks bacon		20:26
Torne	haha	20:26
lcuk	Torne, its uncharted territory	20:26
Torne	lcuk: hrm?	20:26
MohammadAG_	PC's mounting it as read-only	20:26
lcuk	and its planned to incorporate dual booting :)	20:26
MohammadAG_	huh, weird, I can change stuff as root	20:26
valdyn	MohammadAG_: so fsck -f it	20:26
Torne	yes, i was discussing how to dual boot effectively with Stskeeps :)	20:27
lcuk	at least according to the posting yesterday	20:27
valdyn	MohammadAG_: then its not mounted ro	20:27
Torne	lcuk: i need a lot more than dual booting, i have several other OSes to port to n900 ;)	20:27
Torne	when i get the time :)	20:27
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lcuk	get it right for one and the rest can follow	20:27
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* Torne wonders how the little shiny colour change led is hooked up		20:28
* lcuk goes anyway		20:28
lcuk	i have many many beers waiting for me in the fridge and a long weekend to drink them in	20:29
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N900evil	Torne: seen the leaked schematic?	20:30
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Torne	N900evil: no, i'm happy with published stuff kthx :)	20:30
Torne	the kernel source is answering my question as we speak ;)	20:31
N900evil	k	20:31
Torne	it is, alas, an LP5523 hooked up over I2C	20:31
Torne	not simple enough to be an easy "did my OS boot" light ;)	20:31
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frals	lcuk: share the beer!	20:34
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N900evil	IR led isk very easy	20:35
* MohammadAG_ asks for a kind sole to illegally lend him a copy of lib/firmware		20:35
N900evil	directly hooked to pwm pin	20:35
lcuk	sure thing frals ive already arranged for a bottle for you remember :p	20:36
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N900evil	webcam will easily see the IR	20:36
frals	lcuk: :D	20:36
Torne	N900evil: interesting, that's possible	20:36
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MohammadAG_	fine, no kind souls in here :P	20:36
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* MohammadAG_ heads to Nokia's RDA and ssh's into the N900 there		20:37
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Torne	N900evil: yeah, the ir transmitter might make a good test, thanks fr the idea	20:41
Torne	N900evil: still has quite a lot of setup though :(	20:41
N900evil	Torne: you mean for uboot or something before linux?	20:42
Torne	N900evil: hm?	20:42
Torne	no.. mostly i mean for pycorn, my OS :)	20:42
N900evil	ah	20:43
Torne	but that'll be a while, since i don't really have much of a driver framework done ;)	20:43
N900evil	ooh - that reminds me.	20:43
* gevaerts thinks that Torne should come with a warning sign saying "Beware of slightly insane person" :)		20:43
* N900evil checks on popcorn maker on ebay.		20:43
loppear	re default calendar alarm, http://talk.maemo.org/search.php?searchid=7159650 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46932&highlight=default+calendar+alarm etc, just screwed right? just hooked up to MfE and now I have a daily schedule that interrupts me in the middle of each halfhour with its stupid 15m alarm.	20:44
* andrewblack_ is so lazy when it come to having to learn programming		20:44
Torne	gevaerts: but in the course of pursuing my insanity i occasionally produce things which ar euseful to others	20:44
gevaerts	Torne: oh, I'm not denying that!	20:45
lcuk	new straight jacket designs?	20:45
Torne	lcuk: rockbox code, mostly ;)	20:45
lcuk	almost the same :p	20:45
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gevaerts	Hey!	20:46
GAN900	LF videos should be up	20:46
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andrewblack_	I am torn, I can make a boxee remote in no time that would run in web browser, but part of me wants to do it in qt so it looks better being its own app. Then another part of me doens't want to learn to do it in qt lol. Am I only person who is to lazy to learn no progrmaing launguages?	20:47
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Stskeeps	andrewblack_: i made a boxee remote for my n800 with rotating screen	20:49
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Stskeeps	it uses the dpad and is a ~50 line python program in pygtk	20:49
andrewblack_	Stskeeps: want to share it?	20:49
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Stskeeps	andrewblack_: sure, sec	20:49
MohammadAG_	Stskeeps, does mer boot without the lib/firmware files?	20:50
andrewblack_	Stskeeps: need onscreen dpad now, you never made one for n900?	20:50
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MohammadAG_	yay I found them on my cloud	20:51
Stskeeps	andrewblack_: no, but cursor buttons might do the trick	20:51
Stskeeps	MohammadAG_: doubt it	20:51
andrewblack_	Stskeeps: k	20:51
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MohammadAG_	oh crap	20:54
MohammadAG_	the bootmenu defined the mmc as ext2 not 3	20:54
Stskeeps	andrewblack_: ok, my n800 has to charge first	20:54
Stskeeps	oh dear	20:54
Stskeeps	why is rick astley on polish television	20:54
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* Stskeeps wonders why someone is rickrolling polish televison		20:55
Stskeeps	:P	20:55
andrewblack_	Stskeeps: lol yeah I don't keep my n810 changed all the time anymore either	20:55
Stskeeps	andrewblack_: saw my photo of meego codedrop on n810?	20:55
andrewblack_	Stskeeps: nope	20:55
Stskeeps	http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/meegoonn810.jpg	20:55
Stskeeps	fascinating UI	20:55
Stskeeps	:P	20:55
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frals	hmm	20:56
gevaerts	That must be real. It's too easy to fake :)	20:56
frals	updating an application from ham, does the pre/postrm get run?	20:56
andrewblack_	Stskeeps: wow want some themes for that UI? Really it is cool	20:56
jacekowski	frals: i think only postinst	20:57
Stskeeps	andrewblack_: decorating the windows would be a start	20:57
jacekowski	and preinst	20:57
Stskeeps	man, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=624464 was received well	20:57
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Arkenoi	which package does contain "normal" ps command?	20:57
Stskeeps	busybox?	20:58
Stskeeps	:P	20:58
redeeman	psmisc	20:58
MohammadAG_	is there any way to mount the N900's rootfs partition?	20:58
redeeman	?	20:58
MohammadAG_	I know the risks	20:58
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redeeman	or pstools	20:58
jacekowski	MohammadAG_: it is mounted on /	20:58
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MohammadAG_	jacekowski, err, let me rephrase	20:58
MohammadAG_	mount it on my PC	20:58
gevaerts	nfs?	20:58
GAN900	Stskeeps, surely because they don't get what it actually means.	20:58
MohammadAG_	without being able to boot up	20:59
Stskeeps	GAN900: got to say A before you say B.. no fun stuff without a proper hardware adaptation	20:59
lcuk	andrewblack_, black on white or for the dangerous crew white on black!	20:59
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andrewblack_	lcuk: can't be go old school and get some green on well another green	21:00
lcuk	now now	21:00
lcuk	so when will the retro theme be out? :D	21:00
Stskeeps	ah, you're right	21:02
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Stskeeps	why didn't we publish meego codedrop with fullscreen green text on black background..	21:02
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RST38h	Stskeeps: puzzles me too	21:03
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mece	ok, so if nothing is heard from the autobuilder in a while, does that mean build succeded?	21:04
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MohammadAG_	damn, the bootmenu is trying to use mmcblk0p2	21:06
MohammadAG_	which is, I'm assuming, the internal card on the N8x0	21:07
mece	woot! byuild succeeded!!	21:07
mece	build too	21:07
Arkenoi	Is there a reason why we do not have ionice?	21:07
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MohammadAG_	Ah screw this, I'll reflash	21:07
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Stskeeps	andrewblack_: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/test.py , http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/curlit , put in /root/ , chmod +x them, and install wget .. replace IP in the script	21:14
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Stskeeps	it's a nasty nasty hack but feel free to improve it	21:14
Stskeeps	you need to have the webserver running on boxee	21:14
andrewblack_	Stskeeps: thanks	21:15
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valdyn	Arkenoi: "we" ?	21:18
user__	why went my RAM down to 10M free after a few minutes?	21:19
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user__	i just booted...	21:19
valdyn	user__: because thats how the linux kernel works	21:19
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user__	ok, but before, i could use web	21:19
user__	now it says "Task cancelled due to low memory" or smth (other language)	21:20
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valdyn	user__: how much swap is used / free ?	21:20
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lcuk	user__, you installed something	21:21
lcuk	and now after booting its running	21:21
lcuk	and eating everything	21:21
user__	6M used	21:21
Arkenoi	valdyn: it is not in the maemo distribution, so is there a reason for it?	21:21
user__	and i haven't installed anything since a few days ago	21:21
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valdyn	Arkenoi: the maemo distro doesnt ship many cli tools at all	21:21
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user__	i could try reboot, but i really have to access internet atm...	21:23
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valdyn	Arkenoi: no one packaged it, thats all I think	21:23
valdyn	user__: maybe that error wasnt even about ram	21:24
lcuk	user__, run top	21:24
lcuk	and see whats doing it	21:24
DocScrutinizer	indexer messing and wanking around after boot	21:24
valdyn	user__: you can use shift-M in top to sort by process size iirc	21:24
valdyn	user__: but I think you should check your disk space too anyway	21:24
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user__	interesting that conky and "free" gives different info	21:25
user__	lcuk, sure	21:25
Arkenoi	valdyn, given io to be most likely bottleneck on maemo it is really strange	21:25
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RST38h	Arkenoi: why not compile and package it ?	21:25
valdyn	Arkenoi: its neat, but nokia doesnt support power users really	21:26
valdyn	Arkenoi: thats up to volunteers packaging...	21:26
user__	browser eats 24M	21:26
valdyn	user__: thats not much	21:26
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user__	that's the one eating most of it	21:26
user__	so there's smth wrong somewhere	21:26
valdyn	user__: ram is not supposed to be free, thats not your primary problem	21:27
user__	especially as the swap is almost used at all	21:27
user__	ok	21:27
valdyn	user__: check disk space..	21:27
user__	i did	21:27
user__	same as last time i maded a "check for not filling root", and then i didn't have any problems	21:28
user__	if you want to know it anyway, shoot	21:28
lcuk	ok whats the busiest couple of processes	21:28
valdyn	i dont know about any process that would mlock	21:28
valdyn	i would probably wait and try again to run that program that didnt work ( webbrowser i guess )	21:29
user__	xorg, hildon-desktop, browser - sorted by cpu	21:29
lcuk	deffo odd - does the browser come up then die with mem error or immediately	21:30
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valdyn	typically the n900 will break down and crawl insanely slow before it anything runs oom anyway	21:31
user__	and nont of them eat cpu/mem extremly	21:31
user__	none*	21:31
DocScrutinizer	valdyn: ack	21:31
valdyn	user__: do you still get the error when you try again?	21:31
valdyn	DocScrutinizer: why ack?	21:31
MohammadAG_	guess I'll have to actually flash rootfs	21:31
user__	yes	21:31
user__	or well	21:31
user__	the browser is there	21:32
MohammadAG_	I wanna know where I f'd up though...	21:32
user__	but i have a notification that doesn't go away	21:32
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DocScrutinizer	valdyn: +1 for oom vs drinding halt	21:32
DocScrutinizer	grinding even	21:32
user__	about "task temp cancelled due to low mem"	21:32
MohammadAG_	user__, killall hildon-home, it will reset widgets though	21:32
user__	and i'm unable to goto any sites	21:32
valdyn	DocScrutinizer: as long as i can kill something myself i prefer crawling	21:32
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dymaxion_	hi anyone know how to change the SMS message centre number on the N900 i 've googled and can't find it on my menus anywhere	21:32
MohammadAG_	Oh, Operations temporarily disabled due to low memory	21:33
MohammadAG_	user__, just reboot	21:33
user__	k	21:33
dymaxion_	oh typicall.. just as i give up.. i found the setting ! no worries	21:33
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ToJa92	[dymaxion_]: I was just going to type a instruction for you :P	21:33
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mece	Free Heroes 2 is now in extras-devel. under education, LOL. Will upload a version with the proper listing. info: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=624831	21:36
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* GeneralAntilles puts head through wall at bug #9407.		21:42
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9407 Browser: Do not show fullscreen button when scrolling with the keyboard	21:42
GeneralAntilles	Spec spec spec	21:42
GeneralAntilles	It like Nokia's sanity-killing tool.	21:42
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johnsq	Hi	21:44
pupnik	the problem with the web browser is the web SITES	21:45
GeneralAntilles	pupnik, not in this case.	21:45
pupnik	ok	21:45
GeneralAntilles	The problem here is, once again, stupid Nokia UI designers.	21:45
GeneralAntilles	It's always stupid Nokia UI designers	21:46
* GeneralAntilles imagines Maemo without Nokia's stupid UI designers.		21:46
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pupnik	i see full screen button when scrolling with kbd atm	21:46
mece	soo... what's the license on a game demo?	21:46
DocScrutinizer	fsck, backup's restore set my kbd back to German layout :-S	21:47
mece	can you include data files from a game demo in a mamoe package?	21:47
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mece	maemo package.	21:48
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pupnik	mece see how duke nukem handles it	21:48
mece	how does it handle it?	21:49
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: imagine you and me were allowed to proofread & edit the UI specs :-D	21:49
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mece	here's the license included in the package:	21:50
mece	http://paste2.org/p/789701	21:50
MohammadAG_	mece, you did optify the package right?	21:51
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mece	MohammadAG, idunno what is right. the package is in opt, a tiny script and the icon and the .desktop file is in rootfs.	21:52
mece	MohammadAG, heh I misread it. Yes. It's optified.	21:52
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* DocScrutinizer is doing a jig dance for the joy of being allowed to use decent up/down arrow keys		21:52
pupnik	i really think 2) lets you redistribute it mece	21:52
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mece	pupnik, so it seems.	21:53
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mece	I could make a data package. fheroes2-demodata or something	21:53
mece	optional	21:53
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MohammadAG_	GRRR	21:54
MohammadAG_	Is there any way to change the bugtracker link?	21:55
pupnik	mece ther data package would let repo maintainers place the redistibutable bin wherever needed. do that	21:55
mece	pupnik, I have no idea what you just said, apart from the "do that" part :D	21:56
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mece	can you make stuff install to MyDocs? I guess that would be a bad idea actually...	21:58
pupnik	mece: seperate data package has advantages	21:58
mece	pupnik, yep.	21:58
MohammadAG_	mece, you can, it is	21:58
mece	pupnik, people who has the actual game don't want to download useless demo data.	21:59
pupnik	also true	21:59
MohammadAG_	MyDocs can be exported over USB, and if users actually deleted /usr since it had too much "useless" stuff would delete game data	21:59
MohammadAG_	they would*	21:59
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pupnik	((thefinalcutter83:)) According to CNN.com: "Iranian missile may be able to hit U.S. by 2015."	21:59
mece	whoa. pretty slow missile	21:59
pupnik	((SpaceInvader455:)) That's one slow f*ckin missile.	21:59
pupnik	:)	21:59
mece	haha simple minds think alike	22:00
pupnik	nice	22:00
MohammadAG_	mece, you'll have a slight issue though, you can't make it a dependency	22:00
mece	no. but I can make fheroes2 a dependency on fheroes2-demodata	22:00
MohammadAG_	true, but do you actually want the data package visible in the repos?	22:00
mece	why not?	22:01
MohammadAG_	idk	22:01
mece	I think it would be a good solution to this	22:01
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mece	it's only 40 megabytes, so I guess it could go in /opt/	22:02
MohammadAG_	I think /opt should've been on a separate 8GB flash	22:02
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer, all hell.	22:05
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	22:05
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GAN900	One good thing about Nokia dropping support is that we don't have to play games working around their insanity.	22:06
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SpeedEvil	dropping support for?	22:07
DocScrutinizer	err what?	22:07
DocScrutinizer	dropping support?	22:07
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GAN900	lol	22:08
GAN900	Anything	22:08
GAN900	Diable, Fremantle, N900	22:09
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GAN900	means the community is free to continue support how they please	22:09
DocScrutinizer	*** [chanserv] is kicking GAN900 for evil trolling	22:09
GAN900	Muahaha	22:09
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GAN900	It also tends to stimulate activity.	22:10
SpeedEvil	not the nokia 3330!	22:10
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opdf2	is it recommended to reboot the n900 after an application installation/update?	22:20
MohammadAG_	no reason to do it	22:21
opdf2	k cool	22:21
MohammadAG_	andre__, just reflashed, and I can confirm that Nokia Messaging is actually visible after reflashing	22:21
MohammadAG_	so it's an operator issue	22:21
liori	where can i find which parts of fremantle are closed source?	22:22
andre__	weird. aha.	22:22
MohammadAG_	liori, wiki	22:22
andre__	liori, http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/maemo.org/openness/pr1.1/	22:22
andre__	MohammadAG_, feel free to add a comment to the bug ticket	22:22
liori	andre__: thanks	22:22
Stskeeps	liori: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html for guide for it	22:22
andre__	Stskeeps, pah! your tables are totally intuitive! :-P	22:23
SpeedEvil	~xclosed	22:23
SpeedEvil	~closed	22:23
infobot	somebody said closed was http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages	22:23
SpeedEvil	that	22:23
SpeedEvil	oh	22:23
SpeedEvil	that too	22:23
* SpeedEvil syhould read to the end of the screen before pressing the buttons.		22:24
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liori	ok... i guess i got what i asked, not what i meant :-)	22:24
andre__	so what can we do you for, young gentleman? :-P	22:25
liori	is it possible to freely interoperate with things like contacts, gps and so on? i don't care if the software managing those is closed, as long as i can get and push user data	22:26
Stskeeps	there's a lot of apis	22:27
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Arkenoi	did anyone try to change io scheduler on builtin memory card? how does it feel?	22:28
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dr_barnowl	Hi there, does maemo cache the SIM details anywhere specific?	22:28
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dr_barnowl	I'm getting "SIM card registration failed" ... confirmed not to be an upstream cause or the SIM ; I've got an RMA envelope coming to me but I thought it might be interesting at least to investigate.	22:29
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liori	Stskeeps: are there any notable exceptions?	22:30
MohammadAG_	andre__, Venomrush seems to have marked it as a duplicate although the bugs aren't very similar	22:31
andre__	feel free to reopen then	22:31
MohammadAG_	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9613	22:31
povbot	Bug 9613: Nokia Messaging Service no longer showing up after reinstall	22:31
Stskeeps	liori: see what apis exist in docs	22:31
MohammadAG_	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8085	22:31
povbot	Bug 8085: Nokia Messaging unavailable as an option if SIM card from unsupported region?	22:31
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MohammadAG_	andre__, it's invalid anyways	22:32
andre__	MohammadAG_, please reopen, and elaborate :)	22:32
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MohammadAG_	INVALID or WORKSFORME	22:32
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andre__	hehe. pick your poison. :-P	22:33
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andre__	MohammadAG_, I'm getting into weekend mode, don't expect me to make decisions :-P	22:33
MohammadAG_	lol	22:34
pupnik	something that can kill performance-sapping web designers	22:34
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SpeedEvil	pupnik: Flash.	22:35
SpeedEvil	http://www.uk.pg.com/products/products/flash.html	22:35
* dr_barnowl smirks		22:35
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mece	uploading fheroes2-demodata package to builder :)	22:36
liori	one last question: is smooth video playing possible outside the closed video player?	22:36
pupnik	congrats and thanks mece	22:36
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mece	pupnik, we'll see ...	22:36
pupnik	liori: yes	22:37
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andre__	liori, check for yourself by e.g. using kmplayer from extras repo? or gstreamer? :)	22:37
mece	20 megs upload this. I hope it works on the first one	22:37
SpeedEvil	liori: mplayer is quite smooth for me	22:37
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liori	andre__: i don't have the device now :-)	22:37
SpeedEvil	(for content where it can adequately decode the video)	22:37
andre__	ah, okay :)	22:37
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lejonet	Hi everyone, I just bought my N900 today. I love the phone so far but I have found one annoying bug, whenever I have the USB cable in I get an annoying noise similar to coil whine, its a high pitch constant noise that is wailing	22:38
liori	i've got freerunner now and i am disappointed at the quality of software	22:38
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lejonet	Anyone know if this is a known issue or if I should just return it to the store I bought it at and get a new one?	22:38
Stskeeps	liori: ah, n900 is heaps better	22:38
Stskeeps	lejonet: is this a usb adaptor to a pin charger?	22:39
Stskeeps	or straight usb	22:39
lejonet	Stskeeps: It is the miniUSB -> USB	22:39
dr_barnowl	lejonet, I've seen reports of the old-charger-to-new-connector whining	22:39
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dr_barnowl	lejonet, But mine is silent on the USB charger	22:39
lejonet	dr_barnowl: Well this is USB-> USB	22:39
liori	Stskeeps: i see that now	22:39
lcuk	lejonet, are you over 20?	22:40
liori	thanks for answers	22:40
lejonet	lcuk: why is that important lol? But no I am not	22:40
dr_barnowl	lejonet, I've used the mains charger and the USB charger and not noticed noise on either - it goes on my nightstand on the mains charger and I'd go nuts if it whined	22:40
lejonet	The noise is really annoying :P	22:40
lcuk	lejonet, its of all importance : do you hear high pitched noises from other equipment?	22:40
lejonet	It is sortof the noise made by an audible dog whistle	22:41
OldChap	young people can hear high frequencies	22:41
dr_barnowl	lejonet, He's probably referring to high pitched noises that old'uns can't hear because they lose the acuity at that range	22:41
lcuk	(the age question is because your hearing drops off rapidly with age)	22:41
MohammadAG_	doesn't mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /media/mmc1 mount the MMC?	22:41
lejonet	lcuk: Yes, I have very good hearing according to test :P	22:41
lejonet	s/test/tests/	22:41
infobot	lejonet meant: lcuk: Yes, I have very good hearing according to tests :P	22:41
andre__	so does this also happen with the Nokia-default USB to PC connection cable?	22:41
dr_barnowl	lejonet, But it's not a hard fact - and I can hear those noises, and I'm 35, but I've always had freakishly good high-range hearing	22:41
lejonet	Haha correctional bot? Awesome :P	22:41
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lcuk	ok, do other devices bug you like this one, or is it just another bit of buzz	22:41
mece	hehey! http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/fheroes2-demodata/1.0-maemo-1/	22:42
lcuk	my kids tell me the tv makes same noise	22:42
* lcuk cant hear it		22:42
* dr_barnowl can hear that, but hasn't heard high pitched noises from N900		22:42
lejonet	dr_barnowl: Well we did a test at my work place with those annoying high freq apps you can get with Nexus one and I heard the noise long before the others did :P	22:42
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Stskeeps	lejonet: is there a same noise when usb-to-computer?	22:42
andre__	luck: and your kids are damn right I tell ya! :-P	22:42
MohammadAG_	lcuk, lol same here	22:42
_llll_	high pitch nosies go even as "old" as 25 i believe	22:42
lcuk	MohammadAG_, you are a kid!	22:42
lejonet	lcuk: The noise goes away if I unplug the N900 from the computer	22:42
dr_barnowl	Hah, I'm 35 and I can still hear them	22:43
MohammadAG_	lcuk, same as your kids :P	22:43
lejonet	Stskeeps: It is the USB -> computer one	22:43
MohammadAG_	parents can't hear it :)	22:43
lcuk	ok lejonet i know it goes away - is the noise coming from 900 or laptop?	22:43
Stskeeps	lejonet: hmm, vendor cable?	22:43
lejonet	Stskeeps: yes	22:43
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lejonet	lcuk: The N900	22:43
Stskeeps	lejonet: does usb charger do the same?	22:43
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lejonet	Stskeeps: Havent tried, i'll give it a try	22:44
* andre__ buys some kids that use a high frequency language to each other so they can talk bad stuff without parents noticing it		22:44
dr_barnowl	Heh, teach them morse	22:44
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dr_barnowl	And get them a high-freq morse buzzer each	22:44
* dr_barnowl thinks he just invented a new way of cheating in exams		22:45
lcuk	isnt that essentially what sms is :p	22:45
lcuk	silent messages flying through the air	22:45
lcuk	:D	22:45
mece	does this actually work: gtk-update-icon-cache /usr/share/icons/hicolor	22:45
lejonet	Stskeeps: The USB charger does not make that sound	22:45
lcuk	only th kds cn undrsnt thm	22:45
mece	to get icons visible after install	22:45
dr_barnowl	Yeah, but you can't get busted for just having an penlight that happens to have a high pitched buzzer in it	22:45
liori	dr_barnowl: invented? pfff, my sister used this techniques for some time already :P	22:45
Stskeeps	lejonet: check another usb cable too	22:46
lejonet	Stskeeps: i'll try with some of the other USB ports on another computer, I have had problems with those USB ports on the computer before	22:46
dr_barnowl	So ; anyone else had the "SIM card registration failed" thing, now that it's lively	22:46
lejonet	Stskeeps: I'll see if I have any other miniUSB cables, I should have a pair	22:46
mece	omg it's already in extras-devel. That went fast.	22:46
andre__	dr_barnowl, nope. what is it about?	22:46
dr_barnowl	It's not a banned IMEI or bad SIM	22:46
dr_barnowl	andre__, My phone, aint a phone ; it's just a small computer	22:47
dr_barnowl	andre__, It won't log into the cellular network	22:47
andre__	sounds like you bought an "N900" then. ;-)	22:47
dr_barnowl	The SIM works in my OTHER phone	22:47
lcuk	take it out and reseat it perhaps	22:47
andre__	dr_barnowl, get a syslog. see http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Stock_answers#Need_a_syslog	22:47
lcuk	make sure the little clip cage hasnt come unclippied	22:47
andre__	...and file a bug report in bugs.maemo.org :)	22:48
dr_barnowl	And it worked in the N900 before - I just swapped it out to go on a stag weekend and when I came back it just does "SIM card registration failed"	22:48
mece	fheroes2-demodata downloading...	22:48
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dr_barnowl	lcuk, The little cage is fine... it knows the difference between no sim and having a sim	22:48
dr_barnowl	lcuk, Don't get the "no sim" icon with the SIM in, but do with it out	22:48
lcuk	ok	22:49
lejonet	Stskeeps: I have no other miniUSB cables :( Seems the ones I thought arent compatible, just a mm or so too fat :P	22:49
ds3	what carrier?	22:49
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dr_barnowl	The SIM works in my old phone... and another SIM from my friends phone (same network) doesn't work either.	22:49
dr_barnowl	vodafone	22:49
andre__	+country?	22:49
ds3	maybe they blacklisted your IMEI?	22:49
lejonet	Stskeeps, lcuk: Must've been the USB port phew... I added the vendor cable into my laptops USB and no sound	22:50
dr_barnowl	ds3, I was onto vodafone this morning and recited my IMEI twice so I don't think it's that	22:50
dr_barnowl	ds3, They are sending me a "repair pack" postage envelope... 5-7 business days :-(	22:50
lcuk	:) lejonet or your ears have finally collapsed	22:50
ds3	maybe your sim is worn out from too many changes	22:50
lejonet	lcuk: Haha yeah or that :/ :P	22:51
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dr_barnowl	ds3, Nope, still works in my old phone	22:52
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dr_barnowl	ds3, It is a rather old model SIM, but it worked in the phone before..	22:52
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lejonet	Well thanks for your help guys ^^	22:52
lejonet	This is the first smart phone I have ever owned, going to be alot to get used to lol :P	22:52
lcuk	lejonet, what you say? cant hear you sorry.	22:52
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mece	Ok wow. everything works!	22:53
lejonet	lcuk: Hahaha :P turns your hearing aids louder :P	22:53
* lcuk wonders what to work on in liqbase this weekend		22:54
SpeedEvil	lcuk: A hospital-training program.	22:54
lejonet	Now I just have to find openttd again and this device already owns all other phones regardless :P	22:54
SpeedEvil	lcuk: liqOR.	22:54
lcuk	i was thinking something to show distance from nearest volcano	22:55
lcuk	but it will need ccookes' confrabulator	22:55
SpeedEvil	?	22:56
SpeedEvil	active volcanos?	22:56
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lcuk	yeah isnt it wise to stay away from them!	22:56
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SpeedEvil	A bit of spherical geometry, a small db, and you're done.	22:56
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* lcuk nods - was a joke		22:57
SpeedEvil	No!	22:57
SpeedEvil	It's a vital need of the whole community!	22:57
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SpeedEvil	I know I need a volcano warning app.	22:57
SpeedEvil	Can you also include plagues of locusts, and double-glazing-salesmen?	22:58
E0x	hehhehe	22:58
ds3	Mmm locusts	22:58
lcuk	SpeedEvil, could the locust program work for frogs?	22:58
FredrIQ	volcanowarner... gief that	22:59
lcuk	or would that need a whole new app	22:59
ds3	but isn't the real question - what is the best notification for the volcanowarner?	23:00
ds3	should it just vibrate or....	23:00
lcuk	lol thats earthquakewarner	23:00
lcuk	builtin application	23:00
dr_barnowl	lcuk, Hmmph, have a syslog	23:01
dr_barnowl	lcuk, but not very revealing... lots of SIM_IND messages, which have "cause" codes... things with a cause worry me... but it's followed by a lot of stuff that says "sim ready"	23:02
lcuk	dr_barnowl, i didnt ask for it	23:02
dr_barnowl	lcuk, Just being chatty :-)	23:02
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mece	anyone tried fheroes2 yet? I'm curious to know if it works for others.	23:07
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GAN900	Worst part of watching Talk's decline is all of the incorrect info going uncorrected. . . .	23:18
ccooke	GAN900: you can't make everyone right. It is the tragedy of our times.	23:18
GAN900	ccooke, indeed.	23:18
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ccooke	(Evening, all)	23:19
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MohammadAG_	evening ccooke	23:20
* ccooke is about to vanish again, bah. Spent half an hour trying to get to the internet, now my train's almost in to Manchester :-)		23:20
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ccooke	Time flies, when you're... attempting to make a flaky internet connection damn well work this time.	23:21
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BCMM_	anyone played beneath a steel sky on their n900? i can't seem to work out the keybindings...	23:22
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dr_barnowl	ccooke, Where did you start?	23:33
dr_barnowl	ccooke, If it was Leeds, that line is dreadful for any kind of connectivity	23:33
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* MohammadAG hates these silent moments		23:38
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C-S-B-N900	htc desire has a good spec! kind of shadows the n900.	23:40
C-S-B-N900	the mrs is getting it, she would reap the benefits of linux.	23:40
ShadowJK	it's same as nexus one, except htc-android :P	23:41
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C-S-B-N900	anything apart from 32gb that i can claw back with?	23:41
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Shapeshifter	C-S-B-N900: the screen is crappy.	23:43
C-S-B-N900	really?	23:43
Shapeshifter	C-S-B-N900: beautiful colors but ugly fonts	23:43
lcuk	C-S-B-N900, just plug n900 into tv?	23:44
Shapeshifter	and crap in sunshine as well	23:44
SpeedEvil	n900fly	23:44
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Shapeshifter	C-S-B-N900: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/03/secrets-of-the-nexus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars	23:44
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lcuk	then get a projector and show n900 ui running on the side of a building	23:44
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Shapeshifter	C-S-B-N900: though if I was to get an android phone, it'd probably the desire atm.	23:44
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dr_barnowl	Download the SDK and put it on a 1680x1050 monitor	23:44
Mace_N900	skype works incredibly well over tmob 3G	23:45
C-S-B-N900	hw wise, it out perform n900 though?	23:45
Shapeshifter	C-S-B-N900: what good is that when the OS and app base is crap ;)	23:45
C-S-B-N900	thanks guys!	23:45
C-S-B-N900	just trying to make myself feel better for chosing the bulky linux phone.	23:46
C-S-B-N900	geek over chic.	23:46
Shapeshifter	C-S-B-N900: did you read the article. gives some good insights	23:47
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C-S-B-N900	Shapeshifter: yeah, interesting read.	23:50
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Mace_N900	hm	23:51
Mace_N900	trying to find where all the skype options are	23:51
C-S-B-N900	Mace_N900: what options?	23:51
MohammadAG	Contacts > Title Bar > Groups > Skype > Title Bar	23:51
C-S-B-N900	Mace_N900: what options?	23:51
MohammadAG	C-S-B-N900, those options ^	23:52
* Arkenoi wonders if anything can be done to avoid jerky video playback. caching input stream? mplayer does it, does not really fix the problem. renicing background tasks? helps somehow but not really again. changing io scheduler?		23:52
Mace_N900	naw.. just wanted to chwck my credit	23:52
MohammadAG	Mace_N900, call some wrong number	23:53
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Mace_N900	to make sure it wasnt using it when i called	23:53
Mace_N900	like android	23:53
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MohammadAG	it shows credit in a call	23:53
Mace_N900	yeah.. but outside the call	23:53
MohammadAG	actually	23:53
MohammadAG	I think there's a way	23:53
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Mace_N900	wonder if there is a widget for that	23:53
Mace_N900	there is	23:54
Stskeeps	Mace_N900: it doesn't 'call a number' like android crap, at least :P	23:54
wall[e]	anyone think, tap-tap-hold then tilt the phone to zoom is a good interface?v	23:54
MohammadAG	Mace_N900, Skype settings in conversations	23:54
Mace_N900	sts: yeah	23:54
MohammadAG	Conversations > Title Bar > Settings > Skype account > scroll down	23:54
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Mace_N900	that was horrible	23:54
Mace_N900	i saw it	23:54
Mace_N900	thanks tho	23:54
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Mace_N900	stskeeps.. tmob forced them to do that	23:54
MohammadAG	Just noticed an option to disable land line calls	23:55
MohammadAG	might be useful, some day	23:55
Mace_N900	why disable it?	23:55
MohammadAG	when I run out of credit I'll disable it	23:55
MohammadAG	I've had 10 bucks in my Skype for 3 months	23:55
MohammadAG	I just call using my phone	23:55
Mace_N900	me too	23:55
MohammadAG	cheaper to call neighboring countries using mobile too	23:56
Mace_N900	they charge $3 month	23:56
MohammadAG	?	23:56
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MohammadAG	Charge are PAYG	23:56
Mace_N900	for unlimited	23:56
MohammadAG	Skype is*	23:56
MohammadAG	oh	23:56
MohammadAG	hmm	23:57
Mace_N900	better than 30 a month that real phone companies charge	23:57
MohammadAG	I wonder if unlimited supports Israel	23:57
Mace_N900	i have actual skype phones	23:57
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Mace_N900	with the base	23:57
MohammadAG	Firefox's Awesome bar is awesome	23:57
Mace_N900	theyre great	23:57
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MohammadAG	I have my N900 for that :)	23:57
Arkenoi	skype sucks	23:58
Arkenoi	sip is better	23:58
Mace_N900	heh.. says you	23:58
MohammadAG	$5.95	23:58
MohammadAG	per month	23:58
Mace_N900	i love skype	23:58
MohammadAG	omg	23:58
Mace_N900	saved me a lot so far	23:58
wall[e]	anyone think, tap-tap-hold then tilt the phone to zoom is a good interface?	23:58
wall[e]	ooops	23:58
Arkenoi	Mace_N900, why not use SIP?	23:58
MohammadAG	wrong channel? :P	23:58
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Mace_N900	because i already have skype phones	23:59
SpeedEvil	Arkenoi: IO scheduler blows.	23:59
Mace_N900	so why bother?	23:59
Mace_N900	amd it works great	23:59
MohammadAG	wall[e], too cumbersome imo	23:59
SpeedEvil	Arkenoi: do scp or app-install, or anything disk heavy. Everything skips/pauses/judders	23:59
wall[e]	ok	23:59

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