IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-04-22

MohammadAGdima202, it isn't, the python .py script is more practical, but both are crippled portrait mode00:00
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, :)00:00
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: hm, i see nothing in postinst that seems to do anything with the sudoers...00:01
dima202btw, Remember I was having problems installing tools repo? Well simply follow this link to install it scroll down to Installation "open this single-click install file" and you get screen, traceroute and much more useful stuff00:01
LuciusMare_so let's hope it will work00:01
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, did it work?00:01
LuciusMare_i am going to test it00:01
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dima202MohammadAG: do you use ESbox?00:01
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MohammadAGdamn freenode00:02
LuciusMare_well, this is it... so let's try it00:03
dima202MohammadAG: Can you please write a tutorial which explains how to simply compile a package from source using this application? If you ever get some free time on your hands... I've been at it for days :(00:03
LuciusMare_holy freak00:03
MohammadAGdima202, which application?00:03
* LuciusMare_ hugs MohammadAG 00:03
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dima202anything at all. I just want to know how to compile using ESbox00:04
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, I'm guessing it worked :P00:04
ToJa92[MohammadAG]: What did you do now lol?00:04
MohammadAGToJa92, package which enables sudo su00:04
dima202MohammadAG: Just please a small little tutorial would mean a great deal00:04
LuciusMare_ToJa92: i had it disabled00:05
MohammadAGdima202, it really is app dependent00:05
LuciusMare_MohammadAG, thank you so much ^^00:05
ToJa92[LuciusMare_]: Oh00:05
MohammadAGdepends if the app has a configure file etc...00:05
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, no probs :)00:05
MohammadAGQuestion for everyone else, should I upload this suenabler to -devel?00:05
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MohammadAGI doubt anyone needs it though..00:05
dima202MohammadAG: Yeah, with .config00:05
MohammadAGno .config for it00:06
MohammadAGit's not a C++ app00:06
MohammadAGit doesn't need to be compiled...00:06
ToJa92But why would you use sudo su, isn't that pretty much the same ass sudo gainroot (if you got the proper package installed)?00:06
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MohammadAGToJa92, he crippled the proper package lol00:06
dima202ToJa92: because it's less characters?00:06
ToJa92[dima202]: If that's the case you can just write 'root' ;)00:06
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* MohammadAG makes a script called R which is root00:07
MohammadAG3 less characters!!! :P00:07
ToJa92[MohammadAG]: Wow, nice accomplishment :)00:07
dima202yeah I guess that would work just stick it in /usr/bin00:07
LuciusMare_One thing i wonder...00:08
MohammadAGsudo gainroot is...00:08
MohammadAGif [ x$1 = x--use-su ]; then00:08
MohammadAG  exec su -00:08
korhojoaMohammadAG: alias R to root ?00:08
MohammadAGit's possible00:08
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: it looks kinda like it replaced the whole sudoers file00:08
LuciusMare_for example, my permissions for ping are not there00:08
ToJa92out of curiosity, is it possible to modify the omweather widget? I find it rather large and bulky00:08
LuciusMare_What did exactly the script do?00:08
MohammadAGping needs root00:08
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MohammadAGping needs root by default00:09
dima202One thing I really don't like is that my name is user and there is no password for user either00:09
MohammadAGthere is a password, we just don't know it (it can be changed)00:09
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LuciusMare_MohammadAG: i know ping needs root, that's why i put it in sudoers, and after installing your package, it disappeared00:09
MohammadAGno idea then00:10
MohammadAGit didn't replace anything...00:10
LuciusMare_then what did it do? :)00:10
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dima202MohammadAG: oh, so I am basically giving everyone root privelage to anyone on the web to my phone?!!! o.O00:10
MohammadAGit only copied the sudoers file and updated sudoers00:10
* dima202 types passwd00:10
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MohammadAGdima202, err, how?00:10
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, in case anything bad happens/ed, here's my whole sudoers.d folder Well here's my whole suoders
MohammadAGoops, wrong link00:11
dima202MohammadAG: well if the user's password is known then anyone can simply login to my box as user and default password00:11
LuciusMare_if you have ssh :P00:11
dima202seems pretty dumb to leave a default password?!!00:11
MohammadAGdima202, no one knows it00:11
MohammadAGand no one will00:11
ToJa92Probably some guy at nokia who knows it? :P00:11
dima202MohammadAG: I wish I had your optimizm00:12
dima202the password for user cannot be changed00:12
ToJa92so he can take over all N900's and DDOS apples server, lol00:12
MohammadAGdima202, you know there are other N900s, I'm sure one of them has more confidential info than yours :P (no offense)00:12
dima202lol, ToJa92 as funny as that soudns its true00:12
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LuciusMare_MohammadAG: so your package added a file to my /etc/sudoers, right?00:12
lcukwhat would be the attack vector to logging in?00:12
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, yes00:12
MohammadAGa su.sudoers file00:12
MohammadAGthen executed update-sudoers00:13
dima202MohammadAG: I have the most sensetive information on mine ... (encrypted ofcours)00:13
MohammadAGthen why are you worried lol00:13
LuciusMare_oh, the update-sudoers edited /etc/sudoers, right?00:13
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MohammadAGLuciusMare_, no, it just refreshes the cached list00:13
MohammadAGit's /etc/sudoers.d/ btw00:13
dima202MohammadAG: The question is why aren't YOU worried00:14
MohammadAGwhy should I00:14
LuciusMare_Then what the *HECK* is this line: "user ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/su" doing in my /etc/sudoers ? O_o00:14
timeless_mbpLuciusMare_: probably so that su can run and say "you can't use me"00:15
fralshey lcuk ive implemented the 3 concrete things we came up with yesterday!00:15
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, it's in /etc/sudoers.d!00:15
LuciusMare_so this line was already in my sudoers?00:15
frals(found yet another bug in my friggin config dialog while doing it)00:15
lcukfrals !!! :D00:15
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, actually, he asked me to enable it in a package00:15
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, err, no00:15
dima202well ssh should deny connections if there is no password ... right?00:15
MohammadAGI added it...00:15
* lcuk raises a glass to you00:15
LuciusMare_no, you said you added the file into sudoers.d00:15
* frals raises a bottle of vodka to lcuk00:16
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MohammadAGit's /etc/sudoers.d/su.sudoers00:16
timeless_mbpdima202: not precisely00:16
MohammadAGthat's what the package did, period00:16
lcuk:) ill try to get one of the guys to pass a bottle to you when you go next week frals :)00:16
timeless_mbpif you have an ssh key, sshd should be happy00:16
* MohammadAG drinks the whole bottle00:16
LuciusMare_yes, but that line *points up* is in my /etc/subversion/00:16
fralshehe lcuk00:16
lcukinfact, timeless_mbp if you see frals could you shout him a bottle of vodka etc00:16
lcukill return favour when i next see you00:16
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* timeless_mbp nods00:17
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, did you notice what it says... ### Automatically added by update-sudoers00:17
MohammadAGlcuk, I split the dots :P00:17
MohammadAGit worked once though, when i tried it again it didn't work00:17
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opdf2is there a quick photo sharing via service plugin? where i can upload a pic and it returns URL for the upload?00:18
opdf2beside using the browser00:18
* MohammadAG wants that00:18
MohammadAGbut no00:18
LuciusMare_I blame the late night hours...00:18
lcukopdf2, agreed - a sensible option for sharing plugins would be to "[ ] put finished url onto clipboard"00:19
MohammadAGnot late at all, it's still 12:19 AM00:19
lcukbut i don tthink it does now00:19
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: 11:20 PM00:19
MohammadAGlcuk, does the whole sharing thing allow that?00:19
opdf2lcuk:  yes. i just want to do a quick screenshot post or camera shot00:19
lcuki dunno00:19
* MohammadAG stamps "Fixed in Harmattan"00:19
lcukbut its something thought of by a few people that ive seen00:19
LuciusMare_anyway, thanks, and bye :)00:19
lcukit would need to be made available00:20
MohammadAGyou're welcome00:20
MohammadAGand cya00:20
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lcukand then individual plugins would make use of it00:20
lcukso it couldnt change overnight i doubt00:20
GAN900Hooray for sunshine00:20
MohammadAGlcuk, PR1.3 target milestone? :P00:20
* MohammadAG wants some snow00:20
lcukfile a bug about if it there isnt one?00:20
MohammadAGor even a cloud00:20
lcukif you get me the number ill track it00:21
DocScrutinizerdima202: basically there's no such thing like a user without password00:21
DocScrutinizerdima202: for user the password is a nonexist - i.e you can't enter the correct password00:21
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dima202DocScrutinizer: oh I see so security through obscurity00:22
DocScrutinizerand that's the 'default' password for user00:22
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DocScrutinizerdima202: no, you CAN NOT enter the correct password00:22
dima202DocScrutinizer: oh alright. I just hope you are right and this can't be exploited00:23
TomaszDheh, I managed to kill apt-worker00:23
TomaszDham doesn't work now00:23
DocScrutinizerdima202: It's done this way on almost all unix systems since 197000:23
MohammadAGTomaszD, restart it, it will work again :)00:24
TomaszDyeah, it works niw00:25
fralsMohammadAG, lcuk: it should be able to do that as you can make the sharing plugin do a lot of things00:25
frals(but bastard wont start your command until you have an internet connection for some silly reason :<)00:25
DocScrutinizerdima202: look to /etc/passwd or /etc/shadow, you see all those 'yxcd:*:...'00:25
lcukfrals sure - but it needs to be made into a documented part of the plugin api/specification and individual plugins then need to fill in the fields00:26
TomaszDhas anyone seen fiferboy lately?00:26
lcukits a low hanging fruit tweak to existing system00:26
DocScrutinizerdima202: the '*' is what your password had to yield by the encoding algo00:26
lcukthat gives one of those nice touches to people who share a lot00:26
lcukTomaszD, he was in #meego earlier00:27
MohammadAGlcuk, personally I need it for screenshots00:27
DocScrutinizerdima202: there's no password that'll create a '*' by crypt()00:27
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lcukso - find or file me a bug report for it so i can keep an eye on it00:28
dima202i user :!:29999:29999::00:28
Macerok like00:28
Macerno term?00:28
dima202I dont see a *00:28
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Maceri'm looking for it but can't seem to find it00:28
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MohammadAG:29999:29999:: here, but loads more before it that I won't paste :)00:28
DocScrutinizerdima202: '!' is similar00:29
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dima202DocScrutinizer:and i don't see a /etc/shadow00:29
javispedrono need to.00:29
DocScrutinizerdima202: shadow is for multiuser systems00:30
Macerdo i need to add a repo or something to install a terminal? :)00:30
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DocScrutinizererr what??00:30
dima202Macer: no its in your <more> thing in menu00:30
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MohammadAGI wonder how quick the menu will open on PR1.200:31
dima202btw, I have seen no need to overclock the device remember I was so pro overclocking? I'm anti-overclocking now00:31
sECuREhow comes?00:32
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dima202because i see no need for it .. at all00:32
dima202it's so smooth and capable even at stock settings00:33
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Macerwhats the best term font?00:33
MohammadAGI lowered the font size00:33
Maceri hate the default00:34
MohammadAGDroid Fonts then00:34
dima202hehe, I like the default, although I might play around with it00:34
Macerone of the top ones is pretty good00:34
MohammadAGbut seriously, terminal doesn't need to look pretty :)00:34
MohammadAGas someone suggests in the "Make apps prettier" thread00:35
MohammadAGthe word pretty is weird too00:35
mayfairmandima202: the only time I see a lag is on flash intensive site but hopefully upcoming flash 10 H/W acceleration with GPU will see to that without me needing to overclock00:35
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dima202mayfairman: I just let the flash finish loading and then start watching while I do something else00:35
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dima202mayfairman: if it loads 100% I see no problems at all00:36
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Macerterm is pretty good00:36
Lumpio-We could make terminal use Comic Sans00:36
mayfairmandima202: fair enough ;)00:36
Lumpio-That'd be pretty00:36
Macerfunctional at least00:36
Macerthe kb kind of sucks00:36
dima202Macer: I wish for tabbing on x term00:36
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Macerthat would be cool00:39
mayfairmanTab is on n900 for xterm00:39
Macerhe means tabbing00:40
mayfairmanas in window tabs?00:40
mayfairmanor as in line completes?00:40
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Macerwindow tabs00:41
mayfairmanah, lol, ok ;)00:42
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Macerlet me find skype00:44
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MohammadAGConversations > Tap title > Accounts00:44
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Macerwow really00:46
Macerits integrated in telepathy?00:46
SpeedEvil1lcuk: sharing plugins funal url onto cluipboard ++00:46
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andre__Macer: yes, as (closed source) telepathy-spirit00:47
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dima202as in simply seeing tabs in x term as a single app00:47
mayfairmanyeah, my bad dima00:48
dima202but i'm guessing there might be memory issues and if one froze the whole app would freeze00:48
Macerhow do i make a skype call now?00:49
MohammadAGPhone app00:49
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MohammadAGOr read the manual :P00:49
dima202skype? pfft.. Use real sip00:49
dima202Go to settings> VoIP and IM accounts00:49
MohammadAGhe already set it up...00:49
mayfairmanonce you have set-up skype will be integrated with contacts00:50
lcukdoes anyone know if the swedish chef from the muppet could pronounce the name of the volcano?00:50
mayfairmangive you option of text, call skype and skype im00:50
lcukme and tracy have just been trying to here and it devolved into impressions of him involving exploding chickens00:50
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Macerthe skype contacts dont go into your contacts?00:50
MohammadAGMacer, they do00:50
MohammadAGlcuk, XD00:51
mayfairmanand you can also call non-skype contacts through skype call from thier contact card00:51
MacerMohammadAG: the landline contacts do not00:51
Maceronly the skype based contacts00:51
MohammadAGMacer, umm00:52
MohammadAGtap the title bar00:52
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MohammadAGselect Groups00:52
MohammadAGselect skype00:52
MohammadAG(I noticed this last week)00:52
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MohammadAGtap the title bar00:52
Macerin groups?00:52
Macerer.. phone?00:52
MohammadAGyou'll get skype specific settings00:52
mayfairmanall contacts have skype call option with me00:52
MohammadAGMacer, contacts > tap title > groups00:52
MohammadAGthen skype and tap the title bar00:52
MohammadAGyou'll get a lot of skype related stuff00:52
MohammadAG(such as searching for contacts)00:52
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Macergot it.. awesome00:54
Maceri can import the contacts through skype :)00:54
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, ping00:55
Maceri just hope the portrait stuff starts to get worked on00:55
Macerthis landscape only for 90% of the stuff kind of sucks00:55
MohammadAGit's been confirmed not to come00:55
mayfairmancheck out gpodder for an example of portrait goodness ;)00:55
* MohammadAG likes it00:55
MohammadAGIt taught me how to type in portrait using a landscape keyboard (can achieve good speeds)00:55
Macercomfirmed not to come?00:56
SpeedEvilNaah - 1.2 unlocks the secret hinge.00:56
Macerwtf? :) that is kind of silly00:56
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, lol, not for all packages00:56
DocScrutinizerdima202: see 'man crypt' - the password you type is converted to (at least) 12 characters drawn from the set [a–zA–Z0–9./], this crypted string then is stored to /etc/passwd after first ":". You can't enter a password that would result in whatever single char crypted string00:56
SpeedEvilThe keyboard piviots 90 degrees too00:56
MohammadAGMacer, it's not...00:56
Maceri could understand some things00:56
Macerbut the desktop :)00:56
Macerthat sucks heh00:56
MohammadAGMacer, it doesn't...00:56
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MohammadAGanyways everyone knows it was confirmed not to come00:57
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MacerMohammadAG: yes it does ;)00:58
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DocScrutinizerdima202: so no matter if there's :x:, :*:, :!:, or :: - you can't authenticate to this account via password00:58
MohammadAGhmm, a nano-2.0.7 package00:58
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Macersomeone will work on it00:58
Maceri bet00:58
MohammadAGI wonder what that is00:58
MohammadAGI doubt it00:58
Macerit may not come officially but someone will work on it00:58
MohammadAGNot in fremantle00:59
MohammadAGat least till some stuff gets opened up00:59
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MohammadAGmaybe mer, but not fremantle00:59
DocScrutinizerdima202: HTH to make you sleep without nightmares ;-D00:59
Macerwell.. i think it's a bad idea to keep it landscape only00:59
MohammadAGit's been landscape only since maemo 101:00
MohammadAG(it wasn't called maemo 1 was it?)01:00
Maceryeah but... it is the first time it's on an actual phone01:00
mayfairmanhow does gpodder do it then?01:00
dima202just came back reading01:00
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MohammadAGmayfairman, it's developed with portrait support01:00
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opdf2is frals around for a quick queston01:00
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MohammadAGMaemo wasn't developed with portrait support01:00
MacerMohammadAG: someone will do it01:01
mayfairmanOK, cheers01:01
Maceri'll be you money  ;)01:01
MohammadAGyour bet is in the logs01:01
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mayfairmanmy desktop would look honky in portrait anyways01:01
MohammadAGyes I'm pessimistic01:01
dima202DocScrutinizer: Alright, thanks Doc. I believe you are correct01:01
lcukmayfairman, define honky01:02
mayfairmanlol, nasty and wierd01:03
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lcukwhich part would be weird01:05
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Macerlcuk: fix fremantle01:05
MohammadAGqwerty12 wants me to suffer lol01:05
Macerto go into portrait mode01:05
mayfairmanwell having been used to the iPhone portrait, it took me a while to get used to the landscape mode, but I wouldnt go back now, it seems much more intuitive01:05
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MohammadAGdownloaded the status menu applet source code and it's in vala01:06
Maceri just think the desktop itself looks wrong01:06
SpeedEvilFor a few things portrait is clearly better01:06
Macerbeing in landscape01:06
Macerlike contacts?01:06
mayfairmanotherwise would just be another grid list of icons01:06
Simonahello. does anyone know if I can install or is there any openOffice version for Maemo 5 - the version for smartphones?01:06
lcukmacer this isnt about doing anything, im just wondering which part would be "wrong"01:07
mayfairmanapps should be able to go portrait, and desktop as an option, defo01:07
Macermayfairman: i agree01:07
Macerespecially contacts01:07
Macerpeople want to grab a phone01:07
Macerand talk01:07
SpeedEvilI don't.01:07
Macerthey have to hold it sideways.. then fli it01:07
MohammadAGMacer, open phone and select select a contact01:07
Macerflip? :)01:07
mayfairmanlcuk: I didnt mean wrong as in wrong, just my set-up would not work in portrait in any way from a desktop POV01:08
MohammadAGMacer, no, the phone app supports portrait + portrait contacts01:08
MohammadAGit's not meant to be a main phone anyways01:08
MacerMohammadAG: yeah i see that... but the actual contacts does not :)01:08
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SpeedEvilI've spent ~.005% of the time talking on it01:08
MohammadAGI bought it since I really don't talk much, and I love linux01:08
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, same :)01:08
mayfairmanmacer: if you set portrait phone mode on, you can go into select contact and they will be portrait01:09
MohammadAGwell recently I started making convo (conferences) on skype01:09
MohammadAGbut that's about it01:09
MohammadAGmayfairman, didn't I say that a whole back?01:09
mayfairmanwith a nifty alphabetical selector as the KB will not be out, obviously, lol01:09
DocScrutinizerbah, portrait mode. Just use rotated-left-90 fontset ;-P01:09
mayfairmanSorry, was attending to nagging child01:10
MohammadAGah DocScrutinizer, you've got a solution to everything :P01:10
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* MohammadAG seriously needs a better laptop01:12
MohammadAGor a bigger HDD01:12
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you've been watching the screen in portrait mode and cursed the missing rotate-left-90 fonts, during those 0.005% of talking?01:12
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: no. I was getting over the shock of my internet device making this wierd ringing noise.01:12
javispedrodamn noise, now it feels even more bad when I feel the urge to smash it when it rings01:13
MacerMohammadAG: yeah01:13
DocScrutinizerwell, I for one have no eyes inside my ears X-P01:13
Maceri think it's just the feel of looking at a desktop on a phone01:13
Macerand wanting to grab it vertically and see the widgets01:13
Macerwhen you pull it out of your pocket it is easier to just stare at it01:14
Macerinsteda you have to put too much though behind it and sure it only takes a second.. but that's a second of life wasted if you just wanted to check the time or the weather01:14
lcukMacer, :)
mayfairmanright, my Lost is ready, pleasure chatting with you guys01:15
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Macerlcuk: that.. is .. awesome01:16
Maceris that for maemo or mer?01:16
Macernow that is something that would make for an awesome desktop01:16
Maceralways able to be read no matter where the phone is heh01:17
lcukthats liqbase rendering, im trying to work out where and how and what to deal in other places01:17
DocScrutinizerMacer: this lost second only happens to me when a call comes in and I need to rotate the device to read who's calling  :-)01:17
MacerDocScrutinizer: yeah that's a bad one too01:17
MohammadAGI set it to portrait only01:17
Maceri thought that was horrible haha01:17
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MohammadAGwhen a call comes I know the orientation :)01:17
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MohammadAGI still want the N97 answer screen01:18
MohammadAG------> Answer01:18
MohammadAGUnlock <---------01:18
MacerMohammadAG: where do you set that?01:18
lcukMacer, do you have windows pc there?01:18
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Macerdoesn't the phone app auto rotate?01:18
DocScrutinizerI want dialer in landscape unconditionally01:18
MohammadAGMacer, phone app, settings, set orientation01:18
Maceri could have sworn i saw an option for that01:18
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, open the keyboard :P01:19
DocScrutinizernow THAT's annoying when pulling out of the belt pouch01:19
Maceri don't see that01:19
lcukmacer, if you do - i always wanted to fill this with widgets and windows:
Maceri'm sorry. i just can't go with you on that it's a computer with a phone crap ;)01:19
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Macernot having the portrait stuff sucks ass01:20
Macerthat is just horrible design and i can't agree with you on that one01:20
DocScrutinizeryour ass01:20
Macer:) no offense01:20
DocScrutinizernot mine01:20
MohammadAGMacer, tap the title bar, select turning control01:20
Maceri did already01:20
Macerbut i'm talking overall01:20
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Macerforcing the desktop in landscape saying "this is how a PHONE is going to be" that was a bad idea01:21
DocScrutinizerI'm talking underwear01:21
MohammadAGit wasn't made to be a phone01:21
MohammadAGhence no MMS01:21
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: I just made alarmed support presets both in cli and gui. wont release now though because I don't want to have to explain all the new readers of that thread again how to install it atm now that the repos are broken. not sure if that recent fix fixed the pyside packages as well.01:21
MacerMohammadAG: it wasn't meant to be a phone? :)01:21
MohammadAGwhat would happen if I call myself through skype01:21
MohammadAGMacer, it never was meant to be a phone01:22
Macerbut it is01:22
Macerdoesn't matter what it was never meant to be01:22
MohammadAGyou bought it01:22
MohammadAGyour problem :P01:22
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: so hold it till jorg's labs are up and functional again, and it got a decent review :-)01:22
lcukwell its in our hands now :)01:23
* MohammadAG subscribes to lcuk's channel01:23
Macersure is.. like i said tho.. eventually i think it will be fixed01:23
lcuk:) MohammadAG01:23
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Macerbecause that was a horrible decision by whomever made it01:23
Macerit will be a turn off to many consumers01:23
MohammadAGmoving away from this conversation...01:23
lcukMohammadAG i thought you knew some of the uber things ive done over my time and things ive tested along the way01:23
MohammadAGlcuk, sadly, I never was in the community pre-N900 times01:24
Macerlcuk: get that liq thing going on the desktop ;) that would be awesome01:24
MohammadAGI never knew maemo was linux01:24
Macerthat rotation app was great01:24
MohammadAGactually, I never knew what maemo was01:24
lcukMacer, original n810 version of liqbase has physics view01:24
Macerif you can make a desktop do that it would be awesome01:24
lcukall it ever lacked was rotate01:24
lcukit does exactly what that mini app does01:24
lcukdragging scaling etc01:24
MohammadAGI thought the N810 run a Java OS or something01:24
MohammadAGI was blinded by Symbian01:24
lcuknow Macer i have just been a bit busy recently - im trying to build nice things using proper tooling and stuff01:25
Maceror android?01:26
Macerlcuk: well let me know when you get something like that going ;)01:26
MohammadAGonly things I miss from the N97 are the keyboard hinge thing, and the button on the headset01:26
MohammadAGI can live without them01:26
lcukMacer, i think everyone will know :)01:26
Macerit would be so nice to have a desktop that can be put in portrait mode without looking retarded01:26
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lcukindeed, its something ive discussed quite a bit, but the code is different, work in progress so to speak01:27
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: hs button??01:27
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lcukmacer that windows exe is built in visual basic!01:27
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, volume, next prev track, and a pause button01:27
DocScrutinizeraaah that one01:28
lcukthe liqbase stuff is native raw c01:28
lcukim getting quite fond of pyqt at the moment01:28
MohammadAGbut again, I can live without them01:28
MohammadAGdidn't qwerty12 make an app that makes the end button a pause button?01:28
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: what I really miss is a decent voicedial&cmd01:29
MohammadAGvoice dial was kind of useless for me (names aren'01:29
Macerlcuk: well.. hopefully someone fixed that landscape only idiocy :) like i said. MohammadAG is entitled to his opinion but as far as a phone goes that is bad business sense.. i can honestly live without it if necessary but if anybody asked me how good an n900 is i would tell them that it doesn't go into portrat mode01:29
Macerand i bet money they will not buy it for that fact alone :)01:29
MohammadAGt clear in english)01:29
MohammadAGdamn enter key01:29
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, cmd?01:29
lcukMacer, yes its known01:29
MohammadAGah nvm, voice command01:29
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: it got a review?01:29
lcukbut the reasoning MohammadAG gave is sound01:29
lcukthe history of the maemo devices is landscape01:30
Macerbut they weren't actual phones01:30
Macerthis is01:30
Macerit must adapt :)01:30
MohammadAGMacer, well when someone asked me if he should get an N900 I told him to get an iPhone01:30
lcuktherefore pretty much every app for it is geared for it - there have been long discussions already01:30
lcukof course01:30
MohammadAG(not kidding btw)01:30
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Maceryou can't build an awesome phone with great hardware and an awesome OS that could rival an iphone and make mistakes like that turning it off large demographic01:30
MohammadAGproblem is, next week he got the N900 and wanted me to add 5 extra desktops01:30
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: it'll get one, as soon as my device is back in my shivering hands01:30
MacerMohammadAG: yes. i would do the same thing ;)01:30
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: ;)01:31
Shapeshifterpoor bastard01:31
Maceri would say "no get an iphone.. this isn't the same thing.." but i would make it a point to show him how it doesn't go into portrait mode and tell them i don't like that about it01:31
MohammadAGMacer, btw I didn't say that cause the iPhone is better01:31
lcukMacer, its not turned you off - its a hackers dream device :)01:31
MohammadAGit's cause I know he'll annoy me with stuff about it01:31
MacerMohammadAG: i don't think the iphone is better tbh ;)01:31
MohammadAGit isn't01:31
MohammadAGa friend bought one01:32
MohammadAGhe told me it was over hyped01:32
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MohammadAGwent into the so called app store01:32
MohammadAGmost apps are paid01:32
Macerit is.. my gf had one a while back and it was meh01:32
MohammadAGand 3/4 are fart apps01:32
Maceri mean it was nice eye candy and great for people who only read email and browse the web01:32
lcukMohammadAG, come on, its not that bad01:32
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MohammadAGwell 1/401:32
Macerbut real use is not that good for someone expecting a handheld computer :)01:32
MohammadAGlcuk, it is01:32
Macern900 is great01:32
MohammadAGwell at least the IL store01:32
lcuknot even that - choice variety01:32
MohammadAGnot sure about the US/UK ones01:32
Macerbut that landscape only thing is a major turn off01:32
Maceranyways. going to tweak it a bit more01:33
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MohammadAGlcuk, one question, how are 18+ allowed on it?01:33
MohammadAGcya :)01:33
MohammadAGlcuk, the app store01:33
MohammadAGthere are about 10 18+ apps in the top list01:33
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lcuk? i dunno01:33
MohammadAGI was kind of surprised01:34
MohammadAG(not making fun), but a lot of young kids buy iPhones01:34
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lcuka lot of kids lie about hteir age then01:36
lcuki thought apple had strict controls on AO stuff01:36
MohammadAGI guess IL has different policies (w/e they're called)01:36
MohammadAGsec lemme get a name of an app01:36
MohammadAGfound it01:38
lcukMohammadAG, im vanishing01:38
MohammadAGto keep logs clean I /noticed it01:38
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MohammadAGlcuk, off to bed?01:38
lcuk    * Frequent/Intense Mature/Suggestive Themes01:39
lcuk    * Frequent/Intense Sexual Content or Nudity01:39
lcuk    * Frequent/Intense Profanity or Crude Humor01:39
* javispedro knows at least one person to whom he recommended an iphone but got an n900 instead and was impressed by it -- the browser specially01:39
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lcukno wonder its top of the list01:39
lcukbut i tohught iphone banned that?01:39
DocScrutinizerMacer: do me a favour and abandon that portrait topic now!01:39
MohammadAGthat's what I'm asking about01:39
javispedros/iphone/brand X feature phone01:39
dima202There is no skype with camera support for maemo 5 correct?01:40
MohammadAGlcuk, anyone can sign up for the app store01:40
MohammadAGdima202, no01:40
lcukDocScrutinizer, we had.01:40
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MohammadAG(but the account needs a windows/mac to PC to be activated)01:40
lcukit had moved onto mature suggestive themes01:40
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lcukanyway, im offski01:43
lcukgnite maemo \o01:43
DocScrutinizerdima202: but there's *decent* voip with cam support01:43
MohammadAGGnite lcuk01:44
DocScrutinizerdima202: called SIP01:44
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dima202I have free sip using gvoice with sipsorcery and sipgate01:46
dima202But thats for voice only01:46
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DocScrutinizernah, sipgate etc are only the exchange, you can do video-SIP with virtually every provider, given the far end has a compatible video implementation01:49
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_hchey all, I'm still on a Nokia N810, I was wondering whether anyone knows a way to make it so that new instant messages automatically open up a new window, rather than just putting the alert in the lower left corner01:50
dima202DocScrutinizer: very interesting!01:50
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dima202But how can I tell SIP i am making a video call?01:50
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* DocScrutinizer thought there's been a videocall button in dialer or sth like that?01:55
DocScrutinizeror maybe it simply always tries to establish a RTP videostream in parallel to the VoIP RTP audio?01:57
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* DocScrutinizer curses flimsy flat plastic main cable and/or wacky B2B connector01:59
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nokeya_i just bought my n900 and i have stumble already. i cannot see what i type in password boxes. i have done all the latest updates. can i get help here?... thanks02:15
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SpeedEvilunfortunately, it's a 'feature' - you mean in the browser?02:17
nokeya_yes in the browser the password box only show stars.... thanks02:17
nokeya_i cant log in to im or websites02:18
microlithnot actually displaying your password is expected behavior, no?02:18
povbotBug 6598: Browser should display passwords one character at a time like other applications02:19
SpeedEvilsee that02:19
nokeya_on my n97 i can see what i type for a brief period then replace by a star but not so on n90002:19
SpeedEvilmicrolith: yes - but it's broken02:20
SpeedEvilmicrolith: it makes arguable sense on a desktop. Lots less on a phone02:20
loft306nokeya_ mine seems to show passwd as i type it then turns to stars02:20
SpeedEvilthat bug claims it's fixed in 1.202:21
SpeedEvilwhich is coming out real soon now02:21
yuizy_yeah sure02:21
nokeya_hhhmmmmm so that means that i cant login in to nothing till the fix arrives02:21
nokeya_500 bucks on a phone that cant login to anything02:22
nokeya_man... tell me this is not true02:22
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microlithI'd say pebcak, honestly02:23
yuizy_type correctly?02:23
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lcuknokeya_, where are you typing password into02:24
fralslol what02:24
nokeya_how do you guys login in to stuff like FB, msn, sites ?02:24
SpeedEvilnokeya_: I find no great problem typing passwords with numbers, letters, and caps in02:24
fralsi type my password in, its not rocket science to use the keyboard02:24
SpeedEvilnokeya_: it is a bit fiddly, and you do actually have to take care, but it's quite possible02:24
lcuknokeya_, you are more than likely having a problem because the default text input is set to auto capitalize the first letter02:24
SpeedEvilnokeya_: what's your facebook password?02:24
loft306geuss i newer noticed an issue then02:25
SpeedEvilyeah - that02:25
nokeya_thanks speedevil02:25
SpeedEvilI mean - what sort02:25
SpeedEvildo you have wierd symbols?02:25
nokeya_mix case02:25
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nokeya_10 char¤ long02:25
lcuknokeya_, in the Settings, you can set "Auto-capitalization" in the text settings02:25
loft306though the aute cap the first letter drives me nuts sometimes when i forget bout it02:25
lcukit is most likely making you type a capital letter at first02:25
lcukits the default behaviour02:25
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nokeya_thnx lcuk02:26
lcuki have it disabled02:26
lcukbut other shave it on02:26
loft306i will in a moment02:26
lcukothers have02:26
microlithI've never hit a mis-typed password due to autocaps02:26
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nokeya_u guys must be real good to type passwrod blind...... my e90, n95, n95 spoilt me02:27
nokeya_typo "password"02:27
microlithI do it every day on my desktop machines...02:27
nokeya_desktop is not the same though02:28
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microlithslightly different key order, but essentially the same02:28
nokeya_numbers and letters have their own dedicated keys02:28
loft306its fun with  special keys02:28
lcuknokeya_, you seem to have trouble typing anyway02:28
nokeya_hahahahahahahaha thx lcuk02:29
MohammadAGshove maemo on it and I'll buy it now02:29
toresbenow that02:29
toresbeis a bad keyboard02:29
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toresbeMohammadAG: isn't that basically an N900?02:30
MohammadAGwith double the RAM :)02:30
MohammadAGand a compass (but seriously, do I need one)02:30
toresbeyeah, and sans the DSP02:30
nokeya_ok thx for the help guys im gonna go "typing blind training" ................ i love n900 to much be be here with you lot............ till my next problem... peace02:31
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microlithI wonder if that thing's OLED is a PenTile display02:31
lcuknokeya_, you could just stick around02:32
lcukand help the next person who comes in typing blind :p02:32
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fralsdoh i know what i forgot to add to the ux improvement list02:33
fralsneed button to take the log file and mail it to me from within the ui with one press02:33
lcuk"fullscreen photograph of *FAVORITE_CELEB*"02:33
nokeya_no worries i leave it logged in....... ill check in from time to time.....thx again02:33
lcukemail not always available - but a sub submission would be practical02:34
lcukor even just do the copy and put it onto clipboard02:34
fralscould put up a form on my webserver where it can upload it02:34
fralsand ill just make it upload it from within the app hmm02:35
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lcukfrals, its easier to understand users having net access than it is to have mail subsystem configured02:35
Proteouswhen I type in my password all I see is stars02:35
lcukafterall - one of the use cases for mms in the first places was - dont like email02:35
Proteoussee it's just all ********02:35
fralsye lcuk02:36
* lcuk uses **** as password in some places02:37
fralstime to figure out how to get something out of strace now then to see what my daemon is doing02:37
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: did you HL me yesterday?02:44
fralsso, if strace doesnt print anything, my app should be pretty idle right?02:45
crashanddiejust means it doesn't make any system calls that strace monitors02:46
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crashanddiefrals: tried ltrace?02:50
fralscrashanddie: will do, thanks02:51
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crashanddiebloody hell02:54
crashanddienearly all flights are resuming in Europe02:55
crashanddieexcept for fucking Qantas, who are still not allowing planes to take off02:55
Maceris ther a video recording app?02:55
crashanddieMacer: the camera app records video02:55
Maceri was looking where you set it but can't find it02:55
MohammadAGdoesn't the N900 come with a manual?02:56
MohammadAGsecond icon02:56
Macerfound it :)02:56
MacerMohammadAG: i got it for $200 without one02:56
Macereverything brand new except the manual was gone02:56
fralscrashanddie: i have a feeling ltrace did not enjoy being attached to a python script02:58
MohammadAGMacer, excuses excuses excuses...
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crashanddiefrals: right02:59
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Macerlove the lens cover :)03:00
Macernice touch heh03:00
Macerother than that landscape only mode for 90% of everything.. it's the best damn phone ever :)03:00
Proteouslandscape only > phone randomly switching modes when you slightly tilt it03:01
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Macerhave a threshold setting ;)03:03
Macerthat video lcuk showed me was awesome03:04
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Maceri wouldn't mind eveything on teh desktop pointing up all the time no matter what position the phone is in :)03:04
Macerbut at least being able to change the desktop from landscape would be nice.. even if it were just a checkbox option.. the phone ringing sideways is fail :)03:06
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crashanddieMacer: it's not about treshold03:06
crashanddieMacer: it's about precision03:06
Macerand most people don't put their phone in their pocket sideways when they want to just glance at it for something03:07
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crashanddieMacer: the phone doesn't ring sideways, it rings in landscape when the keyboard is open, and in portrait when keyboard is closed03:07
Macerother than that though. it's the best damn thing ever :)03:07
Maceroooooh... ok.. then i am sorry.03:07
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crashanddieyada yada yada, blog about it03:08
crashanddiebenh: g'day03:08
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Macerstill would like a portrait desktop for glancing and flip when kb opens.. screw it.. let me file a bug hahahaha03:08
crashanddieMacer: there's already plenty of bugs03:08
crashanddieMacer: please don't start flooding the bugtacker with useless requests 6 months after the battle03:09
Macerthat looks like it would be handy03:10
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Macerah so there was a concensus huh? that sucks. :/03:11
crashanddieHolly sugar03:11
Proteousif you want something that flips between portrait and landscape a lot I'll sell you my n9703:11
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crashanddieMSFT stands at $275 billion. AAPL stands at $234 billion.03:12
Macernot really flips .. but a setting woud be nice03:12
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Maceri'm going to get aircrack-ng and test it on the work wifi03:12
crashanddiethere's no packet injection03:13
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parimcrashanddie: cant you plugin a external adapter using usb host mode? assuming that the adapter supports packet injection.03:16
crashanddieparim: there is no usb host mode.03:16
dima202cool, i just tried the remote control (qtirreco) it works great03:16
dima202I had to combine 2 remote codes to make it work for my tv because my model was not listed03:17
dima202But the fact that it works is pretty cool03:17
dima202Wish it had an infrared receiver to record codes for my no-name amplifier03:18
crashanddiedima202: it has receiver03:18
b-man17one interesting thing i learned this morning: apparently in Michigan it is illegal to connect to a public wireless access point provided by a business or resident unless he/she is in the building providing the wireless service LOL03:18
dima202crashanddie: i know :(03:18
crashanddieb-man17: wait, what?03:18
crashanddiedima202: why unhappy? It does have a receiver!03:19
dima202crashanddie: nope on tranciever03:19
ShadowJKb-man17, and he/she refers to the person providing the wireless service, or to the person using the wireless service?03:19
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b-man17crashanddie: in michigan it is apparently illegal to tap onto a public access point unless your in the building providing it xD03:19
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crashanddieb-man17: ridiculous03:19
b-man17crashanddie: indeed!03:19
* b-man17 is glad he lives in ohio xD03:20
dima202b-man17: lol, but what about packet sniffing and injection attacks? your not really connected to it03:20
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dima202That's legal right?03:20
b-man17crashanddie: apparently it's a 3rd degree felony if you break that law xDDDDD03:21
crashanddiedima202: no, it has both a receiver and transmitter. It's called a transceiver03:21
parimno usb host mode on the n900 :(03:21
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crashanddiedima202: in injection mode you are connected to it03:22
b-man17crashanddie: apparently, if you were caught taping onto a public hotspot from your car, you can get 5 years O_o03:22
b-man17not kidding03:22
b-man17MohammadAG: wtf indeed03:23
dima202crashanddie: i'm trying to confirm if it is a tranciever and not just a transmitter that would be awesome03:24
crashanddiedima202: I'll bet you $1003:24
parimdima202: all wifi devices are transcivers03:24
crashanddieparim: we're talking about infrared03:24
b-man17crashhanddie: - an example03:25
parimcrashanddie: i am sorry03:25
b-man17"Michigan man dodges prison in theft of Wi-Fi" :P03:25
crashanddieb-man17: technically speaking, under Michigan law, using wifi is a crime03:26
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crashanddieA person shall not intentionally and without authorization or by exceeding valid authorization do any of the following: Access or cause access to be made to a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network to acquire, alter, damage, delete, or destroy property or otherwise use the service of a computer program, computer, computer system, or computer network.03:26
ShadowJKNokia N810 charger (850mA) connected to N900 via the charge adapter.. 500mA reaches N900 :-)03:26
ShadowJKN900 battery03:26
* b-man17 is really glad he lives in ohio xDD03:26
* dima202 is really glad he lives in New yORK03:27
crashanddieMIT must be happy they didn't go for Michigan :p03:27
luke-jr"--a practice known as piggybacking--"03:27
luke-jrknown by *who* as piggybacking?03:27
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crashanddieCan you imagine all the MIT undergrads getting arrested every weekend?03:27
crashanddieluke-jr: well, piggybacking is quite a common term when you're into wardriving03:28
ds3imagine all the jobs it would create just to process it03:28
b-man17crashanddie: those jails would be filled in a week xD03:28
crashanddieI can imagine the hardcore criminals "Lube up boys, the weekend entertainment has arrived"03:28
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* Openfree is away: I'm busy03:30
b-man17crashanddie: unsecured access points in office buildings are illegal apparently too03:30
crashanddieOpenfree: I don't care, deactivate your automated status messages or be quieted. First warning.03:30
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parimb-man17: so using a verizon mifi is illegial?03:31
crashanddieI hate those little whiny bitches on TMO who just can't get things right. "there was maemo 4 and the internet tablets n810 n800 and going back further the n770"03:31
crashanddieWrong, Maemo 4 never ran on the 770, and there IS NO SUCH THING AS A "n770"03:31
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b-man17parim: in Michigan, if your not *in* the business providing the service, yup03:32
crashanddieseriously, one apostrophe and one extra letter, please go the extra mile, thanks03:32
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parimb-man17: i see.03:33
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b-man17parim: in the case of a mobile hotspot, an officer might approach you and ask you to put a WPA2 encryption on it lol03:36
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* Openfree is back (gone 00:08:25)03:38
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luke-jrOpenfree ...03:46
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crashanddieOpenfree: Second warning. Remove your auto-away script or I will quiet you.03:48
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dima202I don't think it's possible to record remote control codes on the n900. from what i'm reading everyone is using an external device ie laptop with ir reciever or desktop with usb ir03:53
ShadowJKn900 doesn't have a IR receiver03:54
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crashanddieShadowJK: sure it does03:56
crashanddieShadowJK: it's the same chip03:56
ShadowJKWhat chip...03:56
MohammadAGit's not IrDA complaint...03:56
MohammadAGmeaning it doesn't receive03:57
ShadowJKThere's an IR led connected to a 38kHz PWM connected to a GPIO03:57
MohammadAG^ trouble03:57
ShadowJKeven if the package with the IR LED would also contain a IR sensitive receiver component, which it doesn't, there's no wiring going back03:58
crashanddiewhy am I confused then?03:59
crashanddieI remember the IR-networking discussions at the Summit?03:59
ShadowJKblind leading the blind04:00
crashanddieapologies then04:00
crashanddiedima202: looks like ShadowJK ows you $10 then.04:01
ShadowJKeven if there was a receiver, IR networking would be very slow and CPU intensive04:02
dima202does he now?04:03
ds3what about using the proximity detector as a IR receiver?04:03
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Arkenoibut there are devices with no wireless except irda04:03
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ShadowJKbecause it's basically just this infrared flashlight, modulated at 38KHz, that you can switch on and off. When you switch it on and off with correct timing of the duration on and off, it looks exactly like a remote control04:04
ShadowJKand you just need to send 2 bytes or so, and the speed is lowish.. somewhere around 30 - 120 bytes per second04:05
ShadowJKit'd take over a second to transmit this line of chat :P04:06
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ShadowJKI'd assume the proximity sensor emitter, and the camera door sensor emitter have modulated signal too so that random infrared light doesn't get mistaken for a return04:10
ShadowJKwhether that's on the same frequency as the CIR I dunno :)04:11
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dima202Very interestin read on IR thanks :)04:14
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crashanddieWell, interesting for anyone who hasn't taken high-school level electronics, I assume04:16
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b-man17crashanddie: there are some people at my school who don't even know what a transistor is rofl04:17
dima202I haven't but I am studying radio frequencies a HAM radio license so I knew some stuff04:17
crashanddieb-man17: "it's what they use in radios, right?"04:17
crashanddiedneary: still stranded in SFO?04:18
b-man17crashanddie: pretty much that response :)04:18
* b-man17 has been tinkering with electronic components since he was 204:19
crashanddieSo almost 10 years? Nice.04:19
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b-man17well, more like 15 ;P04:19
* b-man17 is 17 :P04:20
crashanddieConsidering that at age 2, you're starting to realise that you and your mother aren't the same person, and your mind has to cope with understanding that when your mother leaves you alone, she isn't dying, I'd call BOLLOCKS on that statement;)04:20
crashanddieAlso, you can't remember anything from before age 3-4, so...04:21
dima202I can't remember anything from age of 1304:21
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dima202<- 2204:21
crashanddiedima202: that's because you only did one thing; same all other kids your age: MASTURBATION.04:21
b-man17crashanddie: that's a theory04:22
crashanddieb-man17: no, it's a fact.04:22
b-man17crashanddie: you can't read my mind - how do you know? :P04:23
crashanddieIt's called childhood amensia, and everyone suffers from it04:23
crashanddieI can probably dig up another 20 links regarding CA, but I doubt you have the subscriptions to read them ;)04:26
dnearycrashanddie, Until Saturday04:26
crashanddiedneary: when were you supposed to come back?04:26
dnearycrashanddie, By the time I could rebook my flight there was a week-long backlog04:26
dnearycrashanddie, I was due to fly out last Saturday04:26
crashanddiedneary: you're not with HSBC by any chance?04:26
crashanddiedneary: HSBC is extending their travel insurance so people who were affected by the eruption can claim hotels and such back.04:27
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crashanddiedneary: I'm flying back saturday next week. Anyway, good luck and try to enjoy your extra stay in SF a tiny bit at least. It really is a crappy airport, but the city is nice.04:29
dnearyHSBC the bank?04:29
crashanddiedneary: yeah04:29
dnearyWhere are you stuck?04:30
crashanddieje reviens vivre en France :)04:30
dnearyI'm in a pretty cheap hotel, and the Linux Foundation are helping. It's all the incidentals (transport, food & drink) that is the killer.04:30
crashanddieWell, I guess that for an irishman drinks must be expensive indeed :P04:31
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crashanddieThere's always ramen noodles.04:31
crashanddieds3: I think ramen noodles is actually healthier than McD04:32
GAN900Doubt it04:32
GAN900Depends on what you order.04:32
crashanddieGAN900: yeah but you're american, your sense of taste and health is biased towards McD anyway :P04:34
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crashanddieGAN900: so, you used your passport yet?04:40
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GAN900crashanddie, um, BCN?04:53
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crashanddieah, yes04:54
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MohammadAGnight ppl :)04:55
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crashanddiehi [Revolt]05:07
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lcukn900mmm how do i reorder bookmarks for browser?05:09
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GAN900lcukn900, you don't.05:11
GAN900lcukn900, go stab the UI people.05:11
[Revolt]im trying to chat using "irc plugin support for conversations" but seems i need help (now using xchat)05:12
lcukn900but they werent in the same place before o_O05:12
lcukn900my playboy most popular context videos link is on front page now lol05:12
[Revolt]can anybody help me?how can i join into a chanel? i try "chat with", them type maemo...05:14
lcukn900revolt use xchat afaik conversations isnt geared for group chat05:15
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lcukn900it works best when you have a friend on irc, not when you want to sit in many chans chatting05:16
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lcukn900gan900 your finger work last week was amazing05:16
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lcukn900im so slow at typing on it05:17
[Revolt]lcukn900 so only for private messages? not for channels like this?05:17
lcukn900revolt not personally tried but thats the mojo i know.  if you find out different cool05:17
lcukn900i have to move playboy somewhere (its aerobo05:18
lcukn900ics n stuff - tis cool05:19
lcukn900pupnik i reflashed and my bookmark link has moved05:19
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lcukn900it used to be near bottom now its on top05:19
[Revolt]xD thanks for the advice. i try typing #maemo, /join maemo, /join maemo in the "chat with" window but... incorrect xD05:20
lcukn900#maemo btw05:20
pupnik /join #maemo05:22
[Revolt]only maemo without # opens a new window but nothing. i cant see the conversations and my posts in conversations cant be seen here in the xchat client05:22
pupniki dont understand05:23
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[Revolt]pupnik im trying to use the "irc protocol plugin for conversations and contacts"05:25
pupnikthat seems to be useful mainly for private messages05:25
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lcukn900then /msg yourself05:25
[Revolt]but cant be able to make it work05:25
lcukn900and see if that works afaik it opens msg window05:25
lcukn900to one person05:25
lcukn900a pm05:26
lcukn900gah i should be sleeping05:26
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[Revolt]yes it works with private messages but not with channels :-(05:27
[Revolt]so... bit useless05:28
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pupnik[Revolt]: Irc isnt an IM system really05:29
[Revolt]i see the program in the repository and i think Wonderful! xD but my expectatives may be a bit high05:32
[Revolt]xD and sorry for my english. i know... awful!05:32
pupniknp redoubtable05:34
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[Revolt]any of you guys know how to erase the cache of the video player? i rename some videos but the player are still showing the old names and i cannot open them05:40
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pupnikthe video player shows you some imaginary system05:41
pupnikgood luck with it matching what you have on device05:41
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GAN900lcukn900, I'm amazing, I know. :P05:43
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[Revolt]its supposed that it should autorefresh the list but it doesnt happen05:44
[Revolt]when i try to open the video, says unsupported format. and them ALL formats are unsupported (avi, mp3...) and i have to reboot05:46
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[Revolt]i know that there's a bug but my videos are playable in the device before i rename them, so...05:47
[Revolt]if you know where is the cache, the thumbnails folder or whatever related to the video player...05:48
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Maceryeah this n900 is great06:36
Maceri love the damn thing.. i can deal with the sidewaysness heh06:37
Macerno sftp app tho... i remember maemo4 having one06:37
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crashanddieMacer: server or client?06:41
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* thomaz can't wait til always portrait mode on n90006:46
crashanddiethomaz: if it ever comes06:47
crashanddiethomaz: quite frankly, I'd rather there is a solid framework that allows apps to leverage it if required, rather than a dodgy one-size-fits-all implementation that breaks all the apps06:47
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thomazi mean not in the application, but in the main menu/phone/contacts/etc.06:48
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Macercrashanddie: client06:52
Macerit has sftp06:52
Macerbut sftp is limited06:52
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Maceri want a ui sftp client. maemo had one06:53
Macerforgot what it was called. has been a while06:53
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crashanddieproftpd? :P07:03
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crashanddieon the meego mailing list: "Releasing a new version of MeeGo every 6 months is never going to work. Do you honestly believe Intel would be so succesful if they tried to release new CPUs every 6 months?"07:17
microliththat's a good one07:17
crashanddiethe reply has "don't try to bullshit your way through a mailing list populated by Intel people" written all over it07:17
crashanddie"Intel has been release CPUs every 6 months for ages, and that's why it's so succesful"07:18
infobotcrashanddie meant: "Intel has been releasing CPUs every 6 months for ages, and that's why it's so succesful"07:18
DocScrutinizerfuck portrait. Do you have portrait (9:16) moni on your desktop? Would you want to watch a whole A4 or us-letter page in a 3'5 WVGA?07:20
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DocScrutinizer"but I'm used to phone being portrait, and I think this *should* be considered a phone"07:22
pupnikit is a device.  with many features07:23
Ken-YoungPortrait makes it easier to hold.07:23
microlithI look back at engadget and dell shit out an entire line of mobiles07:24
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DocScrutinizerthere's exactly ONE 'good' reason I heard, for portrait. Was something with US Americans, and pr0n07:24
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crashanddiemicrolith: holy shit07:26
DocScrutinizerKen-Young: I'm frequently using the kickstart like a finger ring - extrremely convenient to hold07:27
crashanddiethat didn't make any sense DocScrutinizer07:28
crashanddies/kickstart like a/kickstand with my/07:29
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: sorry, I'll help you out.07:29
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: put the device in your left palm. now look where the kickstart is07:29
DocScrutinizeraaah sorry07:29
crashanddiehow can I get a contact's name by phone number?07:30
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DocScrutinizerwas down07:32
DocScrutinizerrepost, sorry for double sends07:32
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: sorry, I'll help you out.07:33
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: put the device in your left palm. now look where the kickstart is07:33
DocScrutinizeraaah sorry07:33
DocScrutinizeramiga alzheimer07:33
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crashanddie~ping talk.maemo.org08:05
infobotpong talk.maemo.org08:05
crashanddie~status talk.maemo.org08:05
crashanddie~up talk.maemo.org08:05
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DocScrutinizer~nslookup talk.maemo.org08:14 is
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RST38hmoorning Stskeeps, crash, infobot08:22
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RST38h"Google is adding store interiors to Street View."08:24
RST38h(can we get a BFG9000 with that?)08:24
Ken-YoungHome interiors is coming next.08:24
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infobotOkay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer)08:32
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BusterBAny tips on doing the browser history gesture more successfully? It always takes me at least two tries.08:35
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BusterBGesture is right (off screen) to left.08:36
DocScrutinizerBusterB: timeless told me it depends on how exact it is done, and on pressure08:36
BusterBI can always get the other gesture for mouse mode first try.08:37
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: Tim removed the bot?08:37
DocScrutinizer(like "more pressure means stylus and stylus needs to be more exact" -  or the other way round)08:37
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BusterBWhats the exact method doc?08:38
BusterBMy fingernail gives me better success rates as well.08:39
DocScrutinizernail==stylus, for that behalf08:40
BusterBI wish it was as easy as the cursor mode gesture08:41
DocScrutinizertalk to timeless_mbp08:41
DocScrutinizercursor mode takes a 45° angle and still it works08:43
Gh0stystarting to like the device even tough the present software flaws on the phone functionality08:44
Gh0stya friend developer said he is going to buy one too but he'll probably start rewriting maemo from the core ...08:46
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Gh0styhe already talked like i want to change the kernel ...08:46
crashanddieGh0sty: GLWT08:46
RST38hGood luck on that08:46
luke-jrGh0sty: please be sure he's aware Maemo is not open source and there are no specs with which to write it from scratch08:46
RST38hcrash: ouch.08:46
Stskeepsluke-jr: 'not fully'08:46
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Gh0stynono the kernel for example08:46
Stskeepsbut besides that, yes08:47
luke-jrStskeeps: nothing is ever fully closed08:47
crashanddieRST38h: ?08:47
luke-jrGh0sty: the kernel is open08:47
Stskeepsluke-jr: doesn't this mean there's no systems you can use :P08:47
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RST38h<crashanddie> Gh0sty: GLWT08:47
RST38h> Good luck on that08:47
luke-jrStskeeps: ?08:47
* Stskeeps needs coffee08:47
Gh0styand trust me if i say ... if the guy says things like that ... he is not kidding ...08:47
* luke-jr needs sleep08:47
crashanddieGh0sty: can I ask you a favour?08:48
luke-jrGh0sty: send him here to chat with me first :p08:48
Gh0styi even offered him some money to make me some soft08:48
DocScrutinizercoffee - a brilliant idea08:48
Gh0stybut he wants to doe it for free for me08:48
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crashanddieGh0sty: seriously, don't understimate the quality of the developers that have attempted what you are talking about08:49
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: yeah, we probably all remember your talk with crashanddie from a few days ago08:49
Gh0styas said the guy is passionate about what he is doing08:49
luke-jrGh0sty: not more than I am, I bet08:49
crashanddieGh0sty: it is deeply insulting when you come here, and say "I know a guy who's going to rewrite Maemo"08:49
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Stskeepsah, good luck with that08:50
* luke-jr doesn't think so.08:50
luke-jrjust naive08:50
* Stskeeps nearly went mad08:50
Gh0stycrashanddie: no i did not mean it like that ...08:50
crashanddieGh0sty: because frankly, if the guy is such a pompous prat that he believes he can estimate the workload of rewriting the core of Maemo just by looking at the device08:50
crashanddiethe well, as soon as he arrives here, he's going to get one single reception: he can fuck right off.08:50
Gh0stycrashanddie: no i did not mean it like that ...08:51
luke-jrcrashanddie: it's entirely possible except that Nokia has the hardware interfaces closed08:51
Gh0stywhat timzone are you from?08:51
crashanddieluke-jr: I don't doubt the technical possibility, however I know the state of affairs, and realise how impossible and arrogant for someone to assert things like that without knowing them08:52
Gh0stycrashanddie: ok i admit it sounds outrageous and i can sound a bit over the top08:52
Stskeepsluke-jr: oh, did you see the modem speech part was opened?08:52
crashanddieStskeeps: yeah, excellent news08:52
luke-jrcrashanddie: it's because Nokia gives people the impression that it's open08:52
luke-jrStskeeps: no08:52
Stskeepsluke-jr: meego celluar, libcmtspeech08:52
Gh0styok hes not going to rewrite everything there you are right08:52
crashanddieStskeeps: did you ever get more info regarding the gpu driver?08:52
Gh0stybut he has been playing a couple of days with it and is going to buy one too soon08:53
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luke-jrGh0sty: if he means 'run Gentoo', you can say 'run Gentoo'08:54
Gh0stybut as said the guy is passionate about coding and i believe strongly if he says things like that ...08:54
Gh0styhe is not kidding08:54
Gh0stynono not that08:54
Gh0styhes also a debian guy08:54
luke-jranyhow, N900 is last year's news at best08:55
RST38hGh0sty: Once he rewrites Maemo from scratch, come back and show off.08:55
Gh0stywhich timezone luke-jr08:55
RST38h'cause talk is cheap and so are ideas.08:55
Stskeepscrashanddie: for n8x0? it got released, burden's on our side now08:55
luke-jrGh0sty: all timezones08:55
Gh0styyou here in say ...08:55
Gh0sty5h from now?08:56
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Gh0styits 8am currently here08:56
luke-jrI'm not even here now really08:56
luke-jr1 AM here08:56
Gh0stybut you sleep sometimes?08:56
RST38hhe is asleep right now, and you are his nightmare.08:57
Gh0styor you are actually a machine08:57
RST38hso, be quiet.08:57
* RST38h goes to work08:57
threshyou bastard08:57
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Gh0styand i mean not that i have to validate his doing ...08:58
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crashanddieGh0sty: GMT + 10 here08:59
Gh0stynah nvm its just going to sound like bragging08:59
Gh0stythe guy is not like that08:59
Gh0styits just me giving a bad impression of him right now09:00
crashanddieyou talk too much09:00
crashanddiedrugs will do that to you09:00
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Gh0stywell actually you are right09:00
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Gh0styi am on drugs ...09:00
crashanddieNot surprising, considering the claims you hold.09:01
Gh0styso you are right09:01
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crashanddieAlso: La Rue Ketanou - Tu Parles Trop comes to mind.09:01
Gh0stybut the claims even tough bold are i think partially valid09:01
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crashanddieGh0sty: yes, but that's like saying that Dinosaurs never lived because an asteroid killed them09:02
crashanddieThe claim is partially true, however completely false overall.09:02
luke-jrwhat part is true?09:02
mecewhat is who claiming, and why?09:02
crashanddiewell, according to one theory, the asteroid part.09:02
* luke-jr sends an asteroid Gh0sty's way09:03
DocScrutinizerget a coffe, or a nap, gentlemen. Whatever meets your mood best09:03
Gh0styno lets say in his spare time but also for work he also developped on iphone, arm devices, amd geode ... for example09:03
TigerTaelwtf guys09:03
crashanddieGh0sty: stfu09:03
luke-jrGh0sty: so did every nerd teenager in his basement09:03
Gh0styas said i will invite him here09:04
crashanddiewtf TigerTael?09:04
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meceso wtf is the topic?09:04
luke-jrthe topic is wtf09:04
mecewell duh09:04
Gh0styand sorry but i'm indeed on drugs09:04
meceis that the topics?09:04
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luke-jrGh0sty: IRC logs are valid in court I think09:04
Gh0styno not the illegal type09:04
Pforcecheck that out :)09:05
Pforce3D stuff with ogre09:05
luke-jrdid it eat you?09:05
TigerTaelMorning all you guys! :D09:05
luke-jrTigerTael: morning09:06
luke-jrand night09:06
mecePforce, Ogre3d engine for the win!09:06
Gh0styif you get to hear a couple of weeks ago you could have been dead by simple things ... you start to think a bit differently ...09:06
Pforceyah, shame I only got GLES1 rendering working09:06
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Pforcewould have liket the 2 but the ogre x11 build is not complete yet09:07
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crashanddieGh0sty: send me a PM when you're ready to contribute interesting things to the channel. We're not interested in your medical status, nor are we interested about hearing about all your imaginary friends -- if you're tripping on drugs, go to #defocus. Thanks09:08
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luke-jrMace_N900: stfu09:08
mecePforce, are you making naali?09:08
Mace_N900seriously need an sftp client09:08
mecedoesn't it have one?09:08
luke-jrI'm trying to sleep! everyone be quiet09:09
Pforcemece: yes09:09
Mace_N900it has openssh sftp sure09:09
mecePforce, cool :)09:09
Pforceim the guy in the video09:09
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crashanddieluke-jr: turn the sound off?09:09
Pforcewell you cant see me but :)09:09
luke-jrcrashanddie: what sound?09:09
crashanddieluke-jr: I can help you, you know ;)09:09
mecePforce, I like your afro :P09:09
Mace_N900but i need something a little more persistamt09:09
luke-jrcrashanddie: I wired IRC to my brain09:09
luke-jr(not really)09:09
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Mace_N900downloadimg 2GB over 3G doesnt seem the cool thing to do09:10
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: please stop this insults. The very poor and sparse *docu* for maemo takes a single guy maybe a 6 months to write09:10
* luke-jr notes docs tend to be much more difficult to write than code09:11
DocScrutinizerso please stop claiming somebody will redo maemo_the_system in his spare time09:11
Mace_N900n900 gets better reception than the G1 tho09:11
Mace_N900well. let me fiddle with this thing a bit more09:12
TigerTaelI'm going to rewrite windows 7 in my spare time too!09:14
luke-jrTigerTael: someone's already doing that09:14
luke-jrit's called ReactOS09:14
TigerTaelNah, I know of ReactOS already, and that's a remake of Windows XP, not Windows 7.09:15
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luke-jrit was originally NT09:15
luke-jrthey'll catch up eventually09:15
luke-jrat least with their stated goal09:15
vilinynot yet decided if it's sleep deprivation or if this channel really went ape shit09:15
luke-jrok, goodnight for real09:16
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TigerTael*Sigh* if only ReactOS could speed up its development.09:18
crashanddiebad name then09:18
meceTigerTael, please elaborate09:18
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crashanddieyou should fork it, and call NoReactiOS09:18
Mace_N900xchat seems a little flakey09:18
Gh0stymy apologies and i hope you have no hard feelings09:19
TigerTaelmece, they're only on 0.3.x.x ;/09:19
TigerTaelAnd they've been around for YEARS.09:19
Gh0styrun a bit ahead of myself09:19
meceTigerTael, why do you want it?09:19
Gh0stybut ok as i understand most people here are apparently die hard developers around the thing?09:20
TigerTaelmece, I don't really, but I would like to see a free Windows XP clone. ;]09:20
meceTigerTael, definately.09:21
meceit's pretty ambitious.09:21
morefish_Lindows? :)09:21
Gh0styTigerTael: its called linux?09:21
meceit has nothing to do with linux09:21
Gh0styi dont miss much in my linux desktops09:22
Gh0stybarely run windows anymore09:22
Corsachmmh, n810 gps was really really bad, it doesn't manage to get a location even with a data connection ><09:22
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Gh0styis the n900 gps ok? i heard from people with the preprod device they recommend an external receiver09:23
Gh0stynot really tested it myself09:24
vilinyGh0sty: i get a signal in the basement of a 2 storey brick and treehouse which completely dampens most GSM signals09:25
vilinyGPS is mad efficient09:25
DocScrutinizerMace_N900: xchat is great09:25
Surfait's ok for some things, but apparently there are some inaccuracies if looking meters close proximity09:26
Gh0stywondering actually because the gps does not interest me is it possible/useful to unload the module to save power?09:26
Surfacompared to e71 for example the accuracy isn't that good09:26
Corsacgps is really really faster with a data connection09:26
Gh0stySurfa: thats also what i heard09:26
Gh0styCorsac: well problem is ...09:26
Corsacand I hit a weird bug that in some case, it seems that the recent position is first reset to longitude=0, last latitude09:27
SurfaGh0sty, i think that gps isn't enabled if there aren't applications using it.. so i don't see any benefit of disabling it09:27
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Gh0sty3g in belgium is limited you get a dataplan for 150MB / month09:27
Corsacit was not really a problem in europe since longitude=0 is not too far09:27
Corsacbut I was in the us last month and there, it was definitely a problem09:28
Gh0styfor 15 eur / month09:28
Gh0stynot sure how much dollar that is currently09:29
DocScrutinizerSurfa: accuracy of gps is great. what sucks is TTFF when you got no connectivity so no 'A' kicks in09:29
CorsacGh0sty: around $15 without taxes :)09:29
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: unloading modules doesn't help at all and is a very bad idea09:29
Gh0stynah its less i think09:29
Sentrilike 20$ or so09:29
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: well i run wifiswitcher ...09:29
Gh0stywhy is it bad?09:29
SurfaDocScrutinizer, i have done comparison with my e71 and n900 and i can't agree09:30
Surfa..during geocaching..09:30
Gh0styoh yes its more you are right09:30
DocScrutinizerSurfa: my N900 was around 5m to the point09:30
Gh0stythe euro is strong vs the dollar09:30
crashanddiewouldn't you have a real gps unit for geocaching?09:30
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DocScrutinizerso if e71 is better, ok it be then09:30
vilinywhat is geocaching?09:30
Surfain open areas i was getting 10-20m off from the point with n900.. e71 accuracy was 3-4m09:31
DocScrutinizer~wiki geocaching09:31
Gh0stystore the sats i think viliny09:31
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: " 'Geocaching' is an outdoor activity in which the participants use a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver or other navigational techniques to hide and seek containers (called "geocaches" or "caches") anywhere in the world. A typical cache is a small waterproof container (usually a tupperware or ammo box) containing a logbook. Larger containers can also contain items for trading, ...09:31
Surfain geocaching that's pretty significant already :)09:31
Gh0stycaches ...09:31
vilinysounds... like fun :/09:32
crashanddieI don't see why they call it an "outdoor" activity :P09:32
Gh0styyes heard about that once ...09:32
Surfait's very fun actually09:32
Gh0stythe concept sounded cool09:32
crashanddieWe used to do paintcaching09:32
DocScrutinizerCorsac: (weird bug) seems related to wrong TZ or incorrect RTC setting09:33
crashanddiegeocaching + paintball :)09:33
Surfaif you like being outdoors you definitely should try it09:33
CorsacDocScrutinizer: TZ was updated automagically, not sure about RTC09:33
Corsac(and now it's hard to reproduce since I'm back in europe)09:33
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: (wifiswitcher) no idea what that actually is. So obviously I don't need it - maybe it's a botch to fix a particular problem with wifi eating battery when not associated09:34
CorsacDocScrutinizer: but it was really reset to 0, not something around, so it looked to me like a wrong reset09:34
vilinywho is supposed to set up the things? is it like people leaving strangers things and posting the coordinates somewhere or is it like a game for friends where you hide shit and they find it or?09:34
Gh0styyes strangers09:35
Gh0stythe things are usually of low value09:35
Gh0styjust the excitement of the search09:35
Gh0stymy ide it sounded cool09:36
DocScrutinizerCorsac: there's some bug in GPS. That's also the reason why you need internet & 'Assisted' to get a first fix09:36
CorsacDocScrutinizer: yeah but you can't always count on an data connection, and it my case the “first connection” in US was ok09:36
CorsacI mean, it managed to get a fix (multiple time, with or without connection)09:37
Corsacby waiting enough time, in the latter case09:37
Gh0styoh yes something back OT: i noticed on my bluetooth ear in the car09:37
DocScrutinizerCorsac: you might want to check bugtracker, I seem to remember a bug where lon was mirrored to the other side of Greenwich09:37
Corsacbut then, if you switch it off, and switch it on (like, just close map or maep, then run it again), the first location shown was somewhere around valencia, spain, which was on the same latitude and longitude 009:38
meceAnyone here who can give me some pointers on packaging for devel?09:38
Gh0stysometimes when i hangup the ear stays active (hear noise) which screws with the battery of the ear ...09:38
meceAll the guides assume that I have this and that in the source, which I don't :/09:38
Gh0styonly way i found is turn it off and on again09:38
Gh0stybut its not always ...09:39
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Gh0styi think its when the other party hangs up before me ...09:39
DocScrutinizerCorsac: that's obviously a bug in locally stored pickles for GPS (basically the last location with a real fix, plus ephem/alm data)09:39
Gh0styand since i am on the road making calls a lot ...09:40
Corsacyeah, that was my analysis too, I'll try to reproduce using the location tester, but it might be trickier to do so with a location in .eu09:40
DocScrutinizerghoyou're talking about BT?09:41
Gh0stybluetooth ear09:41
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DocScrutinizerGh0sty: BT has nothing to do with who's first to hang up09:41
DocScrutinizersome BT gadgets suffer from a poor implementation09:42
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Gh0styalso yesterday seen a lot of disconnects over bt while the n900 was in my pocket ...09:42
Gh0styDocScrutinizer: yes i realize that it could be that 30 dollar earphone maybe09:43
DocScrutinizerso your "BT ear"(headset?) obviously has issues09:43
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Gh0styany recommendation?09:43
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DocScrutinizerget a better one09:43
Gh0styprobably need to buy nokia one?09:43
DocScrutinizerbetter doesn't mean more expensive - just test09:44
DocScrutinizerwell, Nokia should be tested :-P09:44
Gh0stylol yeah thats the problem where can you test that09:44
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Gh0stymostly plastic blisters ...09:44
DocScrutinizerGh0sty: iirc there's a page on wiki where compatible tested headsets are listed (community driven)09:45
Gh0styas i said before ... i dont care to spend some money if i get something i know is worth it09:45
Gh0styalso my rationalisation for the n900 ...09:46
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Gh0styoh cool! did not see that one i'll check09:46
Gh0styoh btw noob question also09:46
Gh0styhow do i paste a url in the bookmarks window :p09:47
Gh0styif i select a url in irc i can pick copy09:47
Gh0stybut how to paste ...09:47
DocScrutinizerwhy would you want to do that? anyway ctrl-c/ctrl-v is your friend09:47
Gh0styoh stupid me ...09:48
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DocScrutinizerGh0sty: see wiki "gestures and shortcuts"09:48
opdf2» anyone know how to make xchat put "nickname:" when i double click on a nick? I remember how to do it for mirc but forgot xchat09:49
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Gh0styomg horrible picture09:50
Gh0stya picture of me a friend tool :p09:50
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marmouteGh0sty: greatly change the meaning of your sentence.09:51
Gh0stysorry? i am not native english so i dont understand your suggestion or whats wrong with my sentence09:52
DocScrutinizeropdf2: doesn't work. Use 'tab' completion - for this map shift-space to nick-completion in keymappings setiing in xchat09:52
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: shift-space completion? Doesn't sound as good, does it?09:53
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: why?09:53
crashanddieI don't know, just doesn't09:53
DocScrutinizeraah the term09:53
opdf2DocScrutinizer:  ty09:53
* noobmonk3y prods frals 0.9.8 OoOOooo :)09:53
DocScrutinizernevertheless works like a charm09:53
marmouteshift space is @ isn't it ?09:54
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DocScrutinizermaybe on macintosh09:54
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: fuck off :P09:55
* rmrfchik want to sync maemo contacts with linux desktop09:56
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DocScrutinizeractually I got no idea about where @ is mapped on alien kbd layouts. Just can talk about DE and to a lesser confidence about US09:56
EbzzryHi! How can I make evince the default pdf reader?09:56
* achipa wants world peace (the two are roughly in the same difficulty category :) )09:56
DocScrutinizergood question09:56
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* DocScrutinizer seems to recall something about mime types09:57
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DocScrutinizerand prolly gconftool (me fights vomiting)09:57
Gh0stymarmoute: ?09:58
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: shift + 2 on US, shift + (left to enter key) on gb, alt gr + 8 on french, alt gr + 2 on belgian (or maybe I'm confusing french and belgian), shift + (above enter key) on spanish09:58
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Gh0styplz correct me in PM i like to learn ...09:59
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DocScrutinizerrmrfchik: a bold topic. I came to think it's a simple task to copy over some vcards09:59
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Gh0stycrashanddie: what combination you want to know in belgian?09:59
rmrfchikand rsync two dirs09:59
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crashanddieGh0sty: alt gr  + 2 = @?10:00
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: uhmm, alt on N900?10:00
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: nha, just talking about regular keyboards10:00
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EbzzryDocScrutinizer: do you have pointers/links regarding my query earlier?10:01
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: yeah, the @_on_<space> was about N900 xchat though10:01
DocScrutinizerEbzzry: not anything beyond what I uttered about mimetypes already10:01
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EbzzryDocScrutinizer: hmm, ok.10:02
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: or probably was just kidding anyway10:02
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Gh0stycrashanddie: yes10:03
Gh0styis there btw a way to get alt key inside the shell?10:03
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DocScrutinizerGh0sty: often ESC will do10:03
Gh0styirssi use alt + numbers for switching channels10:04
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DocScrutinizeruse ESC plus number10:04
Gh0styoh rly10:04
DocScrutinizerheard that10:04
marmouteyeah rly10:04
DocScrutinizernever used irssi10:04
Gh0styooh cool!10:05
DocScrutinizerworks for mc Fn-keys as well10:05
Gh0styyeah well irssi is the ultimate irc client!10:05
DocScrutinizerand in shell, e.g for alt/esc-.10:05
Gh0stywell xchat can have the 2nd place10:06
Gh0styyeah ok its just strange its called esc10:06
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DocScrutinizerno, it's called ESC because it's ESC10:06
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Gh0styalready chatting 1h from the n900 now through ssh/screen/irssi to my fixed pc10:07
Gh0stystill in bed ... :p10:07
DocScrutinizeralso notice ESC is not a qualifier key. Rather it generates a standard key code10:07
Gh0styhm dont know so much specs around keycodes and studd in shells10:08
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DocScrutinizerGh0sty: basically you don't hold down ESC10:09
koala_mansupposedly weechat is what irssi would have been if it had been planned ahead10:09
Gh0stybut from a noob view it might be more logical my idea to have alt too ...10:09
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DocScrutinizeryeah, sometimes I miss it as well. Alas there seems no way to add qualifier keys to xterm10:10
DocScrutinizervirtual qualifier keys10:10
Gh0stykoala_man: not going to start am irc client shootout ... never even heard about weechat ...10:10
DocScrutinizerof course you could massively patch the kbd driver10:10
Gh0styuse irssi for ages and know some devs behind it ...10:10
Gh0styno its for real ...10:11
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crashanddieit's fecking Open Source you asswhipe, "knowing a dev behind an Open Source project" is equivalent to using fucking Google10:11
* DocScrutinizer considers a round of bs bingo10:12
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timeless_mbpif april showers bring may flowers10:12
Gh0styno i sat in his new house yesterday actually drinking a beer10:12
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timeless_mbpwhat does april snow bring?10:12
timeless_mbp(it's snowing here)10:12
tekojotimeless_mbp where are you?10:13
achipa~prod Jaffa10:13
DocScrutinizertimeless_mbp: cold feet10:13
* infobot zaps Jaffa with a high voltage cattle prod10:13
tekojoit's not snowing at the office10:13
Gh0stybut nvm ...10:13
tekojoI think that is sleet, not snow...10:13
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mecetimeless_mbp, ?10:13
Stskeepsachipa: i think jaffa might be sleeping after driving from stockholm10:13
Stskeeps(at least i would)10:13
Gh0stydont care if you dont believe me and that was not to brag or anything ...10:13
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timeless_mbptekojo: there's definitely snow10:14
crashanddieapril showers bring may flowers, april snow gives her something to blow?10:14
korhojoadamnit people. where's the upstart package gone?10:14
Gh0stybtw you guys know developers behind maemo at nokia?10:14
achipaStskeeps: ah. Right. Oops :) Sorry Mr  Chairman !10:14
timeless_mbprain falls straight, this stuff is moving around10:14
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mececrashanddie, LOL10:14
crashanddietimeless_mbp: not that?10:14
DocScrutinizertekojo: the rest of us doesn't have 497 different types of snow with their special names :-P10:14
timeless_mbpGh0sty: nah, i don't know any of the people i work with10:14
timeless_mbpi'm paid to go to work and ignore the hundreds of other people in my building10:15
Gh0styoh you are nokia?10:15
crashanddieyes, he's a transformer10:15
tekojoDocScrutinizer you are missing so much on the snow varieties :)10:15
crashanddieevery morning after huming Lex Nokia Empiricum and taking a shower, he transforms into Nokia10:15
Gh0stywell you know a guy under the nickname p210:15
timeless_mbptekojo: it's most definitely snowing10:16
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Gh0styhe is also a belgian :p10:16
Stskeepswell, with that surname it would have to be belgian or dutch10:16
crashanddieGh0sty: you sure he isn't french?10:16
Gh0styand -again- not to brag ...10:17
Surfanice game :)10:17
Surfalet's try guessing where we are from10:17
korhojoaupstart-job seems to be missing from apt in the newest fiasco image10:17
Gh0styhe is dutch10:17
crashanddieso why he is connecting from a french datacentre then?10:17
Gh0styStskeeps: he ever comes online here?10:17
Surfaeu makes things possible? :)10:18
* DocScrutinizer calls for better S/N in this chan please10:18
StskeepsGh0sty: don't think so10:18
StskeepsGh0sty: but then again this channel is big10:18
crashanddiep2 []10:18
Gh0stycrashanddie: lol thats logical ...10:18
crashanddieSurfa: nha, OVH only accepts payments from France or UK10:18
Gh0stybelgium is expensive for everything it10:18
Surfacrashanddie, no credit cards? or some address checking?10:19
Gh0styi considered some weeks ago to take some server there10:19
Gh0styits europe man10:19
crashanddieSurfa: credit cards don't exist in mainland europe10:19
Gh0styi reconsidered going to take a german one10:19
DocScrutinizerkorhojoa: Noise==>><Surfa> let's try guessing where we are from<<   Signal==...errr... wait a minute, I'll find some :-P10:19
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Gh0styits better value for the pricde10:20
korhojoaDocScrutinizer: how about the missing package!10:20
DocScrutinizerwhere's it missing from?10:20
Stskeepsit's there10:20
korhojoathe newest fiasco image10:20
Gh0styanyway gotta get up out of bed10:20
crashanddieSurfa: you're from finland?10:20
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Stskeepskorhojoa: what newest fiasco image10:21
Gh0stytime to go to work10:21
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DocScrutinizerkorhojoa: I'd be surprised10:21
Gh0styagain sorry for my overreaction at start ...10:21
korhojoawell. i flashed my phone yesterday and it doesn't seem to be able to find it10:21
crashanddiehow about you stop reminding us?10:21
Gh0stybut i will put the developer here later today10:21
Gh0styseeya later10:22
crashanddieanyway, I'm off back to the hotel, my work day is over10:22
Surfacrashanddie, yes, but i used to live in germany too.. first thing they offered in local bank was visa credit card there too10:22
korhojoahm. have to figure this out later10:23
korhojoait startedmraining10:23
crashanddieSurfa: credit cards?10:24
crashanddieSurfa: or debit cards?10:24 cards definitely10:24
crashanddieSurfa: you can get some credit cards, but they're usually expensive and worthless in Europe -- because the laws don't protect you as much, and the limits on credit are a lot stricter10:25
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timeless_mbpcrashanddie: what time zone are you in?10:25
crashanddietimeless_mbp: GMT + 1010:25
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Surfacrashanddie, where on earth do you live? I have friends living in netherlands and uk and they have just as real credit cards as i do10:26
timeless_mbpending work at half past midnight.. tsk10:26
Surfaalso in spain10:26
Surfa..and germany, even that germand don't use them much.. mostly maestro cards10:26
crashanddiein Belgium, France, Spain, Netherlands, Germany and Italy you'll only get a credit card if you either request it, look like an idiot, or take a premier-level account out10:26
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: well, sure, in the states you get credit cards just walking down the street10:27
Surfanot my experiences exactly10:27
crashanddieSurfa: UK is fully credit card, completely agreed, but not the rest of europe10:27
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timeless_mbpand they're doing that in HEL too these days10:27
crashanddietimeless_mbp: same in the UK really10:27
timeless_mbpSurfa: note that we're talking about how you <get> them, not who uses them or when :)10:27
Surfadeutsche bank offered me free of charged credit card as a first thing10:27
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Surfatimeless_mbp, i know10:28
Surfabut anyhow it hasn't been that difficult in germany either.. and somehow people i know have managed to get cards in other european countries too, so it can't be really that difficult10:29
DocScrutinizeruptime 72h, think I need a nap10:30
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crashanddieSurfa: what do you call a credit card, exactly?10:31
crashanddietimeless_mbp: it's 5:30PM, not midnight10:32
timeless_mbpoh +. not -10:32
timeless_mbpyou ended up in .au?10:33
crashanddieyeah, but leaving end of next week10:33
crashanddieI resigned from AI10:33
crashanddiesorry, won't be able to give you free card readers anymore :P10:33
timeless_mbpit's ok10:33
timeless_mbpi still need to make use of the one you gave me :)10:33
timeless_mbponce my visa is renewed i'll apply for a finnish id10:34
timeless_mbpwhich i'm told includes a chip10:34
crashanddieThough I loaded up on the goodies before leaving :P I still have a passport scanner that they forgot to request :P10:34
crashanddieThat's at least 5k on ebay :D10:34
Stskeepsnext up, crashanddie getting arrested as "ID copying mastermind"10:34
timeless_mbpspeaking of PKI10:34
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crashanddietimeless_mbp: can we pick this up when I'm back at the hotel? The bunker is shutting down :P10:35
timeless_mbpdo you know much about why someone would use 'iPass' in a corporate env?10:35
timeless_mbpyeah, just a question to think about10:35
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timeless_mbpi'm basically wondering why Windows/OS X crypto support is insufficient10:35
timeless_mbpi don't need the answer now10:35
* timeless_mbp needs to visit work10:35
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crashanddietimeless_mbp: which iPass?10:35
crashanddieanyway, 'later10:36
Surfacrashanddie, card that contains certain amount of limit and you can pay back e.g. 3% per month10:38
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Surfai somehow habe been in such belief that it's a definition of a credit card10:38
Stskeepsdepends from country to country10:39
Stskeepsin .dk, our so called credit cards are linked straight to a bank account and dragged from there10:39
Stskeepswhen there's no cash aviable/overdraft without agreement, the bank shouts at you to correct it and if you don't, block the card10:40
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SurfaStskeeps, it's called debit, not credit10:40
StskeepsSurfa: yes, i know that from crashanddie10:40
Stskeepsexcept that in .dk, that's what we call credit cards :P10:40
Stskeepsdebit cards are ones that are only usable with a direct connection to the bank10:41
Stskeepsie, visa electron, etc10:41
Stskeepsso it just makes things a bit confusing :)10:42
fralsgod just took a web form consisting of ~100 questions and i swear it was in reality 10 different questions with different wording repeated10:43
Stskeepsfrals: we had a questionaire in our comp.sci dept for students10:43
Stskeepsfrals: most of them seemed to be oriented around "do you have aspergers syndrome" or hinting at it10:44
koala_manfrals: was it the N900 survey?10:44
fralskoala_man: hehe, no10:44
fralsStskeeps: yeah, this was pretty much "are you a psychopath".. thats the feeling i got anyway :P10:44
koala_mandid you just skip it and write "I am not a psycho!!" in blood on the back?10:45
Stskeepssomeone else's blood, too10:45
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LuciusMareHello, what is the ideal resolution of video for N900?10:47
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vilinycan you do a apt-get upgrade on the n900? getting tired of clicking each every update and waiting it to update10:51
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vilinyit tells me i don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/ when i try to apt-get upgrade10:54
vilinywhats up with that? ran it as root10:54
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Shapeshifterviliny: sure. well it caches the packages there10:55
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vilinyWhy is the space not sufficient?10:58
vilinyI have loads of free space on the drive10:58
vilinythe updates amount to 30mb at this point10:58
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LuciusMareviliny: that's the reason why you should not apt-get upgrade11:02
LuciusMarefor what #maemo told me, it could fill the rootfs (and brick the tablet, btw)11:02
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vilinyLuciusMare: roger, thats not so good... would have been convenient and much faster than the old click and upgrade but oh well...11:03
vilinyonly did it this first time though11:03
LuciusMareYes, I also hate that it updates everytime :)11:04
plqviliny, what i did to free space was to delete extra repositories. you can add them back later.11:04
LuciusMarerun "df -h /var/cache/apt/archives"11:05
LuciusMareand post here the output11:05
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LuciusMareyes :D11:05
vilinyNokia-N900-51-1:~# df -h /var/cache/apt/archives11:06
vilinyFilesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on11:06
vilinyrootfs                  227.8M    209.0M     14.6M  93% /11:06
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LuciusMareI recommend you optifying the /var/cache/apt/archives11:07
valdynviliny: theres a script in the wiki that will solve this automagically11:07
vilinyvaldyn: have it store that data elsewhere?11:08
LuciusMaremv /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives && ln -s /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives11:08
valdynviliny: yes11:08
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crazyhorssgood evening11:08
valdynviliny: not just /var/cache/apt/archives, few more things, im only using it, I didnt even read it11:08
vilinyhave you got the link?11:08
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vilinyLuciusMare: what does ln -s do again?11:09
vilinyit moves the data elsewhere and then links the old folder to the moved one? correct?11:10
LuciusMareviliny: ln -s makes a symlink11:10
LuciusMareoh yeah, use the script valdyn sent you11:11
vilinyLuciusMare: yeah ok - will this be a problem when i upgrade to say... pr 1.2 etc?11:11
valdynviliny: i dont think we can know that11:11
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LuciusMarebut not likely11:11
vilinyyou suggest i do apt-get install pymaemo-optify11:11
valdynviliny: likely its fine if you install it ota11:11
LuciusMarethere  is a scruot viliny11:12
infobotLuciusMare meant: there  is a script viliny11:12
valdynviliny: simply because thats how deb packages work, but if you flash then i cant tell obviously11:12
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vilinyi'm left a bit unsure about which part of this i actually want to run11:13
achipaX-Fade: will you make a summary of the conclusions or do you want me to do it ?11:14
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achipaoops, wrong window11:14
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vilinyLuciusMare, valdyn : move to opt sh script? the first part? this is what i want?11:15
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vilinyNokia-N900-51-1:/home/user# ./move-to-opt.sh11:17
viliny-sh: ./ Permission denied11:17
LuciusMarechmod +x move-to-opt.sh11:17
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vilinyi did that11:18
LuciusMareare you running it as root?11:18
vilinyim root via ssh11:18
LuciusMareokay, then run the command i posted earlier11:18
LuciusMaremv -v /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives && ln -s /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives11:18
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vilinyokay, will do in a moment... but we don't know why the script fails to run? am i missing python here or something?11:19
LuciusMarei have no idea11:19
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viliny mv -v /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives && ln -s /var/cache/apt/archives /opt/aptarchives11:22
vilinymv: invalid option -- v11:22
LuciusMareokay, leave that -v out11:23
LuciusMarei thought that busybox mv has the -v#erbose option11:23
vilinyokay, it finished... suspension!11:24
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LuciusMareoh :)11:25
LuciusMarewhat does the df say now?11:25
vilinystill tells me 92% is in use...11:25
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valdynviliny: moving archives only avoids apt-get downloading to rootfs11:26
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valdynviliny: it does not free up space when theres nothing inside11:26
LuciusMarewell yeah, try the apt-get upgrade now11:26
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vilinyah sweet :)11:26
vilinyso im clear to do an apt-get upgrade now?11:26
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vilinyE: Could not open lock file /var/cache/apt/archives/lock - open (2 No such file or directory)11:27
valdynviliny: you should understand what you do11:27
valdynviliny: ( before you do it... )11:28
LuciusMare/var/ cache /apt/archives/ lock ?11:28
LuciusMarewhy is the lock file in cache?11:28
LuciusMarei told him to do that, it worked for me11:28
valdynLuciusMare: he did a mistake copying11:28
valdynviliny: ls -ld /var/cache/apt/archives11:29
vilinyclears link?11:29
valdynviliny: no, just shows it11:29
vilinyls -ld /var/cache/apt/archives                      ls: /var/cache/apt/archives: No such file or directory11:29
LuciusMarels -la /var/cache/apt11:30
valdynviliny: there - fix the link11:30
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vilinyim a little lost here now11:30
LuciusMaresorry, sorry, my fault11:30
valdynviliny: you never created the link11:30
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LuciusMarei always swap the name of the symlink and the target11:30
LuciusMareln -s /opt/aptarchives /var/cache/apt/archives11:31
LuciusMarerm /opt/aptarchives/archives11:31
vilinyls -ld /var/cache/apt/archives11:31
vilinylrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           16 Apr 22 11:31 /var/cache/apt/archives -> /opt/aptarchives11:31
vilinyrm necessary?11:32
valdynviliny: ls -ld /opt/aptarchives should show its a directory now..11:32
LuciusMarenot really, it just deletes the broken symlink11:32
LuciusMaretry the apt-get upgrade now11:32
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vilinyit's doing it :)11:32
vilinythanks a lot you both11:33
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vilinythis will save me some time in the future11:33
* LuciusMare repeats: "symlink: target, name, target, name..."11:33
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* LuciusMare wonders...11:37
LuciusMareYou can't change R&D mode by the N900 itself, right? :)11:38
vilinyR&D mode? :)11:38
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LuciusMareResearch and development11:39
nid0LuciusMare no, the method of doing so was disabled11:39
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LuciusMarenid0: hm, i thought it was technically impossible11:39
LuciusMarewhy was it disabled?11:39
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nid0so that people dont think "oo sounds fun", enable it, and fuck their devices, most likely11:40
StskeepsLuciusMare: you can write something simple with libcal-dev11:40
LuciusMarenid0: R&D can fuck the devices?11:40
nid0I mean lets face it, prior to it being disabled in 1.1, there were people switching their devices to red pill simply to see the flashy keyboard backlight pattern11:40
Corsac    * N900: The keyboard backlight behind the left and right side of the keyboard flickers in response to system activity.11:41
Corsacaha, I was wondering what it was :)11:41
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LuciusMarenid0: it seems harmless, it blinks the keyboard, allows root and changes the behaviour of the power button11:41
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crazyhorsshow is this possible? i just entered gprs settings and connected through gprs, but i am getting speeds of 200+kb/s?11:41
LuciusMareunless you enable the flags11:42
Lumpio-You've discovered a secret mode in GPRS!11:42
Stskeepscrazyhorss: EDGE?11:42
SpeedEvilcrazyhorss: edge? Or compression?11:42
crazyhorss$4.99 plan11:43
LuciusMare+1, everything 3g is treated like gprs11:43
SpeedEvilIs the little thingy saying 2g?11:43
SpeedEvilthen it's on 3g11:43
nid0you're connected to 3g11:43
LuciusMarethat's the acceleration?11:43
crazyhorssoh man, thats epic.11:44
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vilinyCan you get the keyboard flashing backlight with less drastic alteration?11:44
crazyhorss3.5 is that 3.5g?11:44
SpeedEvilcrazyhorss: If you see 4, let us know11:44
* LuciusMare gets into a space shuttle11:44
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crazyhorssSpeedEvil: haha11:45
crazyhorssso for $5 i get high speed internet on the go.. i can even make an access point11:46
crazyhorssthis is simply amazing11:47
LuciusMarehm, what app would you get on a long, long offline trip?11:47
Corsacmedia player11:47
Corsaccrazyhorss: prepaid data plan?11:47
SpeedEvil$5 for how much data though?11:47
SpeedEvilI pay around that per month prepaid for 6 months for 1G11:48
LuciusMareCorsac: hah11:48
SpeedEvil /mo11:48
crazyhorssunlimited... i think11:48
SpeedEvilcheck your terms and conditions11:48
Corsacwhich data plan is that? :)11:48
crazyhorssan old gprs plan11:49
crazyhorssfrom like 200411:49
lcukRST38h, how do i disable the beep/vibrate on xchat11:49
SpeedEvillcuk: it's in notifications - in opetions - I thinkthe firtst one11:50
lcukwe thought aliens had landed last night when someone pinged me in middle of night11:50
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RST38hlcuk: /notify something, a moment11:51
lcukon alerts tab i have "blink tray icon and blink task bar"11:51
lcuki wasnt aware blink meant "shake whole house like lkaijilakliaklaikli exploded"11:52
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RST38hlcuk: lcuk: #3311:53
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* viliny finished apt-get upgrading his phone \o/11:53
lcukthanks RST38h11:54
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lcukdo those options persist11:54
lcukor do i have to save each time11:54
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LuciusMareno console nethack in repos?11:55
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SpeedEvilLuciusMare: I've got it installed from somewhere - I forget where11:56
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vilinyLuciusMare: i have nethack in repos11:57
LuciusMareviliny: the console one?11:58
vilinyi also have vultures eye but i can't for the love of god figure out how to navigate the levels and open doors or anything11:58
SpeedEvilconsole one11:58
vilinyLuciusMare: i haven't installed nethack i just saw it there11:58
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LuciusMarei have only vultures11:59
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SpeedEvilapt-get install nethack-console12:00
LuciusMare|awaycouldnt find package nethack-console12:01
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JaffaMorning, all12:04
Jaffaachipa: pong12:04
fralso/ Jaffa12:04
lcukmorning jaffa \o12:04
fralsnice to see you got home in one piece12:04
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lcukhome at last? :D12:04
achipaJaffa: mornin12:04
Jaffafrals: Not so the car :-(12:04
Jaffalcuk: indeed12:05
lcukwatch out jaffa! another barrier!!!12:05
Jaffalcuk: haha12:05
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lcuki bet you just deflated at that point :(12:05
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X-FadeJaffa's world travel?12:05
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lcukjaffa tried fistbumping the uk - it mishit and slapped him in the face12:06
Jaffalcuk: it was one of those retractable floor ones, and a car was there as I approached. So I didn't see it go back up. The arm barrier (like you'd get at a car park) is stuck up and blocks the view of the traffic light. Finally, the guy in the booth said hello by saying "alright mate"; which I took as a sign to keep going (as the visible barrier was still up)12:06
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lcukJaffa, what time did you eventually get back then?12:08
Jaffalcuk: 22:30.12:09
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Jaffalcuk: When we got off the ferry at 13:30, I was hopeful for being home by about 16:30; and seeing Mrs Jaffa and the Jafflets12:09
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lcukbloody nora!  did you actually facepalm when it happened12:10
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lcuklcukn900, ping12:11
lcuklcukn900, ping12:11
LuciusMare|awaylcuk: ping?12:12
lcuklcukn900, ping12:12
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lcukLuciusMare|away, just making sure xchat doesnt wake me up again12:12
lcuklcukn900, ping12:13
lcukok :) works now12:13
lcuksorry for noise12:13
* frals slaps lcuk with a bunch of bacon12:13
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lcukfrals, a bunch of bacon roughly == a pig12:14
inzi'd rather call it a meal12:15
ShadowJKHey, Mugen shipped me a replacement cover today12:15
ShadowJKtwo in fact12:16
lcukinz he would have to slap you with bread roll and tomato sauce too12:16
Jaffalcuk: Swore. Loudly.12:16
ShadowJKI guess I'll get them next week12:16
fralsShadowJK: could i get a link to your script for battery monitoring again? i seem to have misplaced it12:16
inzlcuk, they would be nice, sure, but not necessary =)12:16
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fralsthanks :)12:17
ShadowJKfrals, I leave for work in an hour, so ask all the questions before that :)12:17
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fralsShadowJK: do i need to change anything or just chuck it on device and run it as root?12:18
ShadowJKuntar it, there's two files and i2cget, they need to be in same directory and +x. Then run it ./ as root12:19
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ShadowJKActually i2cget needs to be in the current directory..12:19
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ShadowJKFor power use monitoring, ./ 512:19
ShadowJKis the most useful12:19
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fralsShadowJK: ty :))12:19
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ShadowJKThe chip itself updates measurements every 5.12 seconds12:20
ShadowJKFor short term monitoring, the "mA" column is the 5.12 second average consumption (if negative) or charge (if positive)12:21
ShadowJKFor long term monitoring I'd compare the "NAC" column.. Nominal Available Capacity12:21
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ShadowJKThe default calibration inside the chip is a bit off for capacity-tracking, empty happens somewhere between 700-1000 if the chip hasn't recalibrated itself at some point12:22
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: have you ever seen it recal?12:26
SpeedEvilwith the stock bat?12:26
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ShadowJKYeah that too12:26
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fralsbastard, fmms bug i just got was 1000112:27
fralsbug #1000012:27
povbotBug Overwriting of devices in PAIRED DEVICES LIST12:27
ShadowJKYou actually need it to recalibrate twice for the stock batt, because the default value is so far from the actual value that it refuses to believe it12:27
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: how did you recal? just using it moderately till it shutoff won't for me12:28
lcuklol frals12:28
lcukbug 1000112:28
povbotBug Sharing plugin doesn't work12:28
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ShadowJKSo it needs to sit below EDV1 voltage (3248mV) for a few seconds, but above 3200mV (shutdown, and shutdown makes consumption go to zero which makes voltage bounce up above EDV1 threshold)12:29
SpeedEvilfrals: - err - shouldn't that remain an open bug?12:29
lcukbug 999912:29
povbotBug Tap & Hold menu disappears before an item can be selected12:29
ShadowJKSo as I approached 3200mV I gradually reduced the power consumption on my N900 by first disconnecting internet, then putting it entirely offline, and then when it got even closer, I dropped backlight level, but kept the backlight on12:29
SpeedEvilfrals: I mean - it can be fixed - it's just you can't12:29
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fralsSpeedEvil: i think it have to be moved to a different product then12:30
ShadowJKand monitored the output.. after seeing 1 in the EDV1 column for a few lines, I put it on charger, and it had relearned capacity12:30
SpeedEvilI've never had edv1 112:30
ShadowJKAt that low voltage any load variations causes relatively large variations in voltage :/12:30
fralsSpeedEvil: and im certain that it's a wontfix for nokia as well ;)12:30
ShadowJKAlso VDQ needs to be 112:30
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ShadowJKactually I think it's enough if you see EDV1=1 once, but voltage needs to stay consistently below 3248 for a few seconds for EDV1 to be raised..12:31
RST38hShadowJK: Overclocking?12:33
ShadowJK"The bqJUNIOR EDV detection is designed to prevent premature detection of the EDV thresholds due to dynamic load variations. EDV detection has a dynamically adjusted delay of up to 21.5 s with RSOC ≥ 6% and down to 3 s when RSOC = 0%"12:34
ShadowJKSo yeah, 21.5sec below 3248 and above 3200.. and N900 shuts down faster than 21.5secs ;)12:35
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massoudanyone had "mobile hotspot" app working on the n900 ?12:37
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - I have only ever seen 3248 once in about 8 discharges12:42
SpeedEvil18:08 3248 38   38   -302 503  503  503  65535 100   303 012:42
SpeedEvilI think that was immediately after teh low-voltage alarm had triggered, and it was doing the actual shutdown - hence the high current12:43
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crazyhorssnvm, testing12:55
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lcukfrals, !!! bug13:05
lcukodd one too13:05
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lcukhad first level configuration dialog up (asking for phone number etc)13:05
lcukrevd mms13:05
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lcukand clicked the yellow note13:05
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, I think I was cruising at about 80mA discharge near 3300 :)13:05
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lcukso now mms is shown fullpage13:06
lcukbut unclickable13:06
lcukpanning back to the dashboard13:06
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lcuki can see the dialog over the top13:06
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lcukbut focusing back on it shows me mms pic13:06
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lcukits curious - i think i can just click back on the mms itself13:07
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lcuknot crashed or anything, just bizarre effect13:07
lcukoof i cant click back13:07
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fralsi think gtk got confused which window is on top between the dialog and the stackablewindow which shows the mms13:07
lcukand the back arrow is also unfunctional13:08
fralsand dialog grabs input but is not in its loop anymore so it doesnt destroy13:08
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fralsill see what can be done about it13:08
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lcuki dont know if anything simple can - was just a heads up :) if you can tho it will be good13:09
fralsi think it require a bit of state tracking thru the app, not whats available from gtk in that regard13:09
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fralscheers for telling me about it will keep it in mind13:10
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* lcuk nods13:10
fralsnot sure whats*13:10
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fralswonder how the hell you debug a sharing service not showing up in "Sharing services" dialog13:11
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povbotBug 10001: Sharing plugin doesn't work13:12
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paul_____hmm i downlowded w widget but when i go to add widget it don't appear in the list, how the hell do i add it?13:15
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paul_____frals: what would be nice was fmms intergrated into the n900 txt app ;)13:18
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lcukpaul_____, it is nice that we have fmms at all!13:21
paul_____of course, i'm greatfull i would be lost with out it!!!! but would be nice13:21
paul_____maybe a idea for the furture ;)13:21
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wazdhello people13:23
mecehello hello13:24
lcukpaul_____, can you get rid of all your extra ___ please too, i can also see fmms integrating with conversations, but that is much more than getting the fundimentals working13:24
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firestorm_i was trying but the connection hadn't died :p13:25
firestorm_I know lcuk  chill !!!! just a idea i would like ;)13:25
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firestorm_least frals  has saved the day unlike nokia!!!13:25
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TermanaWhy not use nickserv to ghost your nick? (assuming you've registered your nickname)13:26
firestorm_nar not registered :)13:26
firestorm_otherwise i would have13:26
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lcukfirestorm_, who says nokia arent helping - fmms is a team effort with frals at the helm13:26
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firestorm_haha nokia help don't be stupid!!!13:26
fralsyes, im getting plenty of help from nokia13:26
firestorm_coudln't even get ovi updated intime for release of the phone13:27
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firestorm_which was really annoying :(13:27
lcukfirestorm_, you misinterpret intent with complexity13:27
firestorm_lol no i understand mate, just a flagship phone and not even using there latest software.13:28
firestorm_it's like microsoft releasing ie 8 but don't work on windows 7.13:28
hrwfirestorm_: there are many things which can be told about nokia and how badly they work.13:29
lcukfirestorm_, its a completely different os13:29
firestorm_oh of course hrw  but isn't that like any company, all had bad points :)13:29
hrwfirestorm_: none of Ovi services works out-of-box13:29
firestorm_wasn't ovi for tne 97?13:29
firestorm_isn't that running the same os as n900?13:29
hrwfirestorm_: no, is what I talk about13:30
lcuki wish!  symbian != linux13:30
hrwfirestorm_: only n900 runs maemo13:30
firestorm_ah lol i'll shut up and go to lunch then13:30
firestorm_sorry i assumed it was the same !!!!!13:30
* firestorm_ sits in his corner and carrys on playing with fmms13:30
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firestorm_what did the n97 run then?13:33
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PhonicUKhey all13:34
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fralsthis is slightly worrying13:40
fralsDaemon running. Samples: 116 Min: -71 Max: -8 Avg: -16.215517241413:40
fralsDaemon NOT running. Samples: 117 Min: -41 Max: -8 Avg: -13.658119658113:40
fralsavg mA drain over 10min recorded with ShadowJKs script13:40
frals~curse ltrace for not handling .py13:41
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ltrace for not handling .py !13:41
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X-Fadefrals: Wakeups?13:41
fralsX-Fade: ye must be, but strace shows nothing at all so must be something else, no clue what though13:42
X-Fadefrals: What is the benefit of having it running?13:42
vilinyhaving what running?13:42
X-FadeThe first time it start automatically?13:42
X-FadeWhy not just close it after you are done?13:42
fralsX-Fade: basically to make sure it gets the SMS Push properly, because there is a slight chance it might not start in time otherwise13:42
X-FadeIt is not like you receive hundreds of messages a day?13:42
fralstrue, i'm going to experiment with having it die after its done processing instead13:43
fralswonder if theres a setting for dbus on how long to wait for a service to start13:43
X-FadeIf your device is busy, it won't get the push sms anyway?13:43
lcukhiya X-Fade \o13:44
fralsthe push sms gets through but my service might not start in time for dbus to send it a long (afaiu)13:44
X-FadeBut you just register to listen to the dbus event, right?13:44
X-FadeDoesn't that know to start the script then?13:45
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fralsit does, but it seems that if it takes to long to start the script it just sends the dbus event and then my script hasnt registered to listen to the event yet13:45
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X-Fadefrals: C :)13:46
fralsbah! ;)13:46
X-Fadefrals: Does your script use the python speedup thingie?13:46
fralsX-Fade: python speedup thingie? O_o13:46
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X-FadeYeah, pylauncher or something like that. Not sure if there was something for Maemo 5 though.13:48
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fralsX-Fade: i will look in to it, thanks!13:49
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X-Fadefrals: But yes, if the script takes 10 secs to start, it might be killed.13:50
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fralsyeah seems not updated recently, going through the code to see what it does13:52
X-FadeNot sure if there is something in pymaemo doing that now.13:52
lcukfrals is this investigation something we could start a tmo thread about13:53
lcukget community investigating it13:53
X-FadeBasically by forking a process where all libs are already loaded speeds things up.13:53
fralslcuk: probably, it seems like it could benefit all python gtk apps13:53
* lcuk nods13:53
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X-Fadefrals: But does the fetch part really need all these heavy parts?13:55
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X-Fadefrals: Doesn't need a gui?13:55
fralsX-Fade: it doesnt, i think i've been sloppy with some imports which should make it work just fine if removed13:55
X-FadeIt can just signal the gui part but run itself as a lightweight script.13:56
pupnikthere is a 4 pixel wide spider on this n900 screen13:56
fralsyes it what it does, but it imports my controller which imports gtk (due to having some related functions), ill move the gtk import away and see how it works13:57
lcukX-Fade, frals ^13:57
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X-FadeYes, let's see. I don't use python myself, but starting a python app seems rather expensive.13:59
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lcukis such a brainstorming session worthy of being tweeted and retweeted and stuff to try to get as many eyes as possible on it?14:01
X-FadeBtw, would precompiling help in speedup?14:02
lcukyes more than likely14:02
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lcukin the same way google do with the JS code (reduce variables to 1/2 char etc) anything which eases the job of the end machine14:02
lcukbut should really be discussing on the thread14:03
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X-FadeOk, time to get some lunch :)14:04
fralsright fixed the gtk import now anyway so the daemon doesnt import it, not sure about startup time but its taking 13MB less in memory :P14:05
fralsnow to make sure shit still works... ;)14:05
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vilinywhat are you building frals?14:06
vilinyok :) i have it installed but i don't know anyone who uses mms14:07
vilinymight be the case for the finns who designed the n900 as well, not that used here14:07
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achipappl, that preloading thingie is a two edged sword - once we start preloading pygtk, pyside, pyqt and whatnot, we'll be all over the flash even before the first widget...14:36
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X-Fadeachipa: But it will be only once ;)14:37
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lcukachipa, mention it in the brainstorming14:38
lcuk:) otherwise it will be lost14:38
Macerwonder how much money was lost with that one14:39
achipaon talk ? or the 'real' brainstorm ?14:39
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Macermeasure how high you can throw your n90014:39
lcukachipa, ^14:39
lcukits an open discussion now14:40
achipalcuk: seems to me I already added this thought there :D14:40
lcuknot worrying about voting or anything :)14:40
Anss|Macer, i have wondered how that works. Does it need some kind of trampoline14:40
lcukMacer, 3.51m14:40
MacerAnss|: honestly not going to even install it14:40
lcukpersonal record whilst n900 was wrapped inside rolled up sleeping bag14:40
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Macerlcuk: hahahaha14:41
Macersurrounded by bubble wrap?14:41
lcukno the sleeping bag is perfect lol14:41
lcuki only did that when i kept banging it..14:41
lcuk.. on the ceiling14:41
achipaanyone know the status of unladen-swallow ?14:45
achipa(while we are python performance)14:45
Anss|lcuk, sleeping bag sounds little bit of cheating ;)14:45
achipa(though that is prolly 2.6 at best, so tough luck Fremantle)14:45
lcukAnss|, i am strongly in favour of keeping my n900 usable14:46
Macersure does14:46
Macerlcuk: but the fear is half the fun14:46
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lcukit wasnt the fear14:47
Macerlike the highwire... nobody cares if there are nets14:47
lcukit wasnt my house so i would wreck the plasterboard on the ceiling14:47
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lcukit made a heck of a noise when it banged the first time14:47
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Corsachmhm, do we know what's holding PR1.2 btw? is it the switch to lenny in SDK + dpkg-shlibdeps with symbol files?14:50
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JaffaCorsac: That was done by the community; Nokia/PR1.2 aren't involved.14:51
Corsacmh ok14:51
StskeepsJaffa: SDK team was involved it sounded like14:52
Stskeepsnot PR1.2 though14:52
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X-FadeCorsac: The PR1.2 SDK won't have squeeze devkits, totally unrelated.14:53
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hrwCorsac: whats holding? internal nokia team is holding14:54
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lcukjaffa do you have any observations you found about making python faster that you could share? i know you have lots of experience with it
Corsachrw: that's a who, not a what, nor a why :)14:55
BrokkolyHmm, how is it going for an app for MMS ?14:55
hrwCorsac: I am free to think about 'internal nokia team' as what not who14:55
hrwbb in few14:55
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Jaffalcuk: will look later14:56
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lcukk :)14:56
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* Noobmonk3y waves 15:03
* nid0 nods15:03
* Noobmonk3y blinks 15:03
* nid0 groans in pain15:04
Noobmonk3ylong day?15:04
* Termana hits you both over the head with a 2 x 415:04
nid0more that I buggered up my back last night15:04
nid0pulled a muscle in my back next to my spine15:04
nid0been in agonising pain since15:04
Noobmonk3ylol was she worth it?15:04
nid0sadly, I was just playing badminton15:04
achipaI just play bad, no mint on15:05
Noobmonk3ywoooop to healthcheck, was just shy of 4000 downloads a few days ago! :)15:05
nid0whens new version hitting testing :P15:05
vilinyhow hard is it to create apps for the N900?15:06
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vilinyim ranging from complete newbie to moderate php programmer :/15:07
nid0its a piece of cake, if you know how to code15:07
vilinywhats the language?15:07
nid0python's probably going to be the most straightforward15:07
vilinyi need to get on that then15:07
vilinythanks nid015:07
Noobmonk3ylol nid0, after 1.2 i think15:07
Noobmonk3yviliny, easy!15:08
nid0if you're a moderate php coder, picking up python shouldnt be much of a struggle15:08
vilinyis python cross platform like as... i can make something in python and expect all osses to be able to execute it?15:08
hrwviliny: basically yes15:09
nid0pretty much15:09
vilinyit requires client installations, though?15:09
soraclethe problem with python is that it isn't always backwards compatible (in some cases)15:09
soraclebut it rocks15:09
hrwsoracle: maemo has 2.5 so not such problem now15:09
soracle(and kicks perls ass anyday)15:10
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PhonicUKhas anyone tried xfce in easy debian?15:10
vilinyPhonicUK: it comes with lxde?15:11
PhonicUKlxde != xfce?15:11
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BCMManybody know how to stop my n900 setting my skype "real name" to my skype username?15:12
vilinyok, it does come with lxde in which case i haven't tested xfce on other than ubuntu desktop so far. Sorry for wasting your time15:12
PhonicUKyah it comes with lxde15:12
BCMM(it is a source of confusion to my not-really-computer-people parents)15:12
hrwBCMM: report bug in bugs.maemo.org15:13
BCMMhrw: are you sure it isn't just that i've failed to find the option to set it to what i want?15:13
hrwBCMM: but then nokia will mark it as WONTFIX probably15:13
BCMMhrw: why?15:13
hrwI do not use skype too much so did not noticed problems yet15:13
hrwBCMM: thats my feeling on maemo bugs15:14
hrwbb in few15:14
StskeepsBCMM: well, it's a bug, report it :)15:14
BCMMoh god, just found the option and feel kinda stupid15:15
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BCMMthey call it "screen name", which i presumed meant username because i've used some IM software that used it that way15:15
vilinyi also found "only allow im from contacts i have in my list" to be a good thing to check - since i don't appreciate horny single wives or viagra peddles sending me 5 messages every 3 hours15:16
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Corsaceverybody loves horny single wives15:17
andrenarchyhi everybody! i experience problems with modest+imap and *lots* of folders15:18
vilinya single wife is like a pregnant virgin15:18
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andrenarchyis there a way to unsubscribe imap folders?15:19
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Anss|single wife?15:19
achipawave ?15:20
vilinywives, wife?15:20
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Anss|who? :)15:20
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vilinySkype spam Anss| :)15:20
vilinycan python produce executable binaries for win32?15:21
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Anss|viliny, it can produce compiled objects (.pyc) but no executables afaik15:23
Anss|you probably need to add shebang :)15:24
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timeless_mbpan update on browser memory usage15:25
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timeless_mbpit seems there's a non browser team addon which actively leaks memory each time we click on links15:25
timeless_mbpwhich partially explains why the perf team kept telling us that our browser was leaking...15:26
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timeless_mbp(and probably also explains why each time we upgraded, and thus broke the addon for a few weeks, our memory usage temporarily improved)15:26
SpeedEvilSo you've now unbroken your wookie?15:27
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: did this plugin contain the letters O V and I?15:27
TomaszDmust be15:28
BrokkolyWill work on n900 ?15:28
* SpeedEvil suspects someone here will know.15:29
* SpeedEvil looks at frals.15:29
Anss|viliny, though there is python distutils which might do the exe for you (py2exe).15:29
fralsBrokkoly: more or less. you might want to check out fMMS15:29
BrokkolyfMMS <-- the name of the app?15:29
BrokkolyOk will check.15:29
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: ooh, it does, how'd you guess?15:34
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: because i suspect those people are sniffing way too much cocaine15:34
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Brokkolyfrade oh, hmm I have to be connected to internet to send with fMMS ?15:35
ArkenoiSIP client suddenly went crazy. Stopped connecting, i ran wireshark and it shows that it sends ssdp m-search broadcast and returns connection error immediately after15:36
fralsBrokkoly: yes15:36
achipaJaffa: hey, how do we post to the council blog ? or did I manage to miss that info, too ?15:36
BrokkolyOh, bad :/15:36
fralsBrokkoly: how do you suggest sending otherwise?15:36
Jaffaachipa: Go to; log in if you haven't already; and do Page/Folder > New item... (in the Midgard toolbar)15:37
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Brokkolyfrals with the operator you got in the phone, like on the other phones, or how is that working?15:37
fralsBrokkoly: it works the same as in fMMS15:37
SpeedEvilthrough internet15:37
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: does disable in add-ons actually work?15:38
* crashanddie is writing a "SMS Analyser"15:38
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: Nothing seems to happen when clicking on the disable button.15:38
Brokkolyfrals oh really, hmm but I didnt connect my phone to internet when I was sending with MMS on my other phones.15:38
fralsBrokkoly: yes you did, you just didnt realise ;)15:38
Brokkolyfrals oh is that so? :O Crazy then :P15:39
achipaIs it just me or is that midgard toolbar thingy a very bad idea intuition/usability-wise ?15:39
fralsX-Fade: I looked at closing the "parser" after each SMS push, but if two arrive after each other the second one gets missed... :/15:39
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vilinyis python able to create GUI's ?15:39
X-Fadefrals: That is strange.15:39
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achipaJaffa: so... should I wait for feedback a little more or post the thing ?15:40
crashanddiegents, do you know how in Python I can get a contact name from phone number? (well, name or other properties)15:40
Jaffaachipa: Post the thing15:40
crashanddie(in python)15:40
Jaffaachipa: It's awful :-)15:40
achipaviliny: python is a generic programming language :)15:40
crashanddiefrals: saw that, but it's ugly15:40
fralscrashanddie: its the "nicest" way to do it afaik15:41
fralsunless you want to use python-evolution and parse each contact manually, which is really slow :p15:41
Jaffacrashanddie: python-evolution; open 'Default'; iterate over all contacts; break if it matches15:41
achipafrals: that's almost like driving with your hood open15:41
Jaffacrashanddie: What frals says15:41
crashanddieJaffa, frals: but that doesn't allow to get other numbers from that contact15:42
fralsX-Fade: I suspect its because my daemon has to register as a dbus service, and if i quit the mainloop after each method call the queued calls are thrown away15:42
timeless_mbpX-Fade: it should15:43
vilinyheh... i really dislike the look of python code already :/15:43
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: not in mine. Basically a no-op.15:43
fralscrashanddie: is what i do, its a bit of a mess but it gets the job done15:44
X-Fadetimeless_mbp: It gets focus, the dotted line shows in the button but nothing else happens.15:44
crashanddiefrals: thanks15:44
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hrwfrals: do you check *only* phone numbers?15:44
X-Fadefrals: Hmm weird.15:44
hrwfrals: check bug 898915:44
povbotBug number -> name decoding for sms should only be decoded from phone number fields of contacts15:44
fralshrw: uh, not sure, depends on how osso_abook.osso_abook_query_phone_number(number, fuzzy) works15:45
hrwfrals: add facebook or icq account and check?15:46
ArkenoiSMS analyser? So we will be able to detect spoofed SMS looking at originator SMSC, as on s80?15:46
fralsX-Fade: it might be down to my implementation though15:46
fralstimeless_mbp, X-Fade: seems like a noop here as well... how do i tell if the addon actually got disabled?15:47
fralsright, adblock got disabled just fine, only ovi addon acting up15:47
Corsachmhm, what exactly does MAFW mean?15:48
X-Fadefrals: indeed.15:48
X-Fadefrals: adblock disables fine.15:48
crashanddiefrals: how slow is that?15:48
fralscrashanddie: it takes about ~0.1sec to init the ctypes stuff, havent measured each lookup but it shouldnt be that slow15:49
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crashanddiefrals: so the self.ebook is not using evolution, right?15:49
fralsself.ebook is, but the lookup is done through osso-abook15:49
fralscrashanddie: in my experience that way is faster than doing it through python-evolution bindings15:50
crashanddieyeah yeah, I heard evolution was dog slow15:50
crashanddiefrals: ok, I'll analyse that, thanks for the tip15:50
* timeless_mbp ponders15:51
achipawhy does the article look like CRAP ? grrrr15:51
timeless_mbpfor me, the addon in question isn't compatible w/ my browser, so it isn't enabled :)15:51
* achipa is not a (or maybe midgard) fan15:51
achipa(styling wise)15:51
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lcukX-Fade, ive got half an idea forming about something15:52
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fralsfuckin hell it wont even let me uninstall the ovi addon15:52
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X-Fadefrals: Nope ;)15:55
fralsX-Fade: very good feature ;)15:55
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X-Fadefrals: I blame timeless_mbp .15:56
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X-FadeThere should be some ini/xml file you can edit though.15:57
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vilinyPython was supposed to be easy eh? i get an headache reading it :P15:59
lcukupgrade your brain to human1.2 and dit becomes readable15:59
lcukand it15:59
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vilinyill have to take another try at it when im not sleep deprived16:02
vilinyi don't get this whole interactive IDLE thing though16:02
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vilinyseems like a pain in the ass to code something with something that talks back :)16:03
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Gizmokid2005|AFKfrals: ping16:08
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ceolin[AWAY]hey folks, someone knows how can I locates the application name ?16:10
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hrwceolin: in package description?16:10
achipaJaffa: torpedos, los ! posted in 1000 places.16:10
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hrwachipa: that qt mail you mean?16:11
achipahrw: yes16:11
ceolinhrw: I try to do this in the .desktop, but doesn't works16:11
fralsGizmokid2005: yes?16:11
hrwI see long time before qt 4.6 will get really used in maemo5 ;(16:12
Gizmokid2005frals: Any reason why the notification of new SMS push for MMS shows up in email instead of (or with) the converstaions notification?16:12
Gizmokid2005pm if you'd like16:12
TigerTaelme love you long time.16:12
SceltPR 1.2 OUT?16:12
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hrwScelt: is 12 november today?16:13
fralsGizmokid2005: because ive not added my own category to the correct file as it was a real mess last i looked at it16:13
TigerTaelScelt, it's been out for YEARS16:13
Gizmokid2005Scelt: <-- do your own work :P16:13
Gizmokid2005frals: ok, so it's not really a bug, just by design still16:13
fralsGizmokid2005: yes, by design ;)16:13
Gizmokid2005frals: ok good :) I notice everything else has been working great. Anytime I've tried to send/rec MMS, it's been happy and I can even delete the MMS now :P16:14
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ceolinhrw: do you have any suggestion to solve this problem ?16:15
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achipahrw: as in apps or ? there are 50ish qt4.6 apps/packages in there already16:17
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hrwceolin: check ovi store desktop for example. for me (pl_PL) it is 'Sklep' which is translated name16:18
ceolinhrw: ok, I'll check16:18
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hrwachipa: today developer has to choose: app for users or for devs. first choice == 4.5 which do not follow style guide and require some extra work. second choice = 4.6 which has maemo5 support done in other way and require extras-devel so small amount of users16:19
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achipahrw: well long time in that context means 'time until PR1.2'16:20
achipa'long' would be the wrong term there, though, more like 'undefined'16:20
hrwachipa: and pr1.2 can be 12 november 2013 or tomorrow. I vote rather for 2 november16:21
E0xkernel overclocking on fly !16:21
E0xn900 can have that too , hmmm16:21
MohammadAGyou can already oc on the device16:22
E0xbut not on fly AFAIK16:22
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korhojoaHmm. so, anyone know what this is about?
E0xMohammadAG: that news lie , is not on fly is just do the process of install a new kernel16:33
E0xneed reboot16:33
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MohammadAGtitan's kernel doesn't install a new kernel after each reflash16:34
MohammadAGafter each overclock16:34
E0xbut you need reboot when you do OC ?16:34
MohammadAGthink not16:35
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MohammadAGbut i really don't give a **** :)16:35
E0xmy mainboard do something that could nice in n900 is a dynamic overclocking16:35
E0xwhen the machine is 100% i need more power16:36
E0xdo a overclock16:36
E0xdynamic and on fly16:36
MohammadAGthat's stupid to do btw16:36
E0xwhy ?16:36
MohammadAGcause when you overclock it stays at idle till you load it with something16:36
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MohammadAGso dynamic oc'ing would be poinless, since it already controls frequency16:37
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E0xMohammadAG: ah ok16:38
E0xis in some way the same thing16:38
E0xafter all16:38
nid0well yes, overclocking an n900 basically *is* dynamic overclocking16:39
MohammadAGnid0, even without oc'ing, it controls frequency16:39
MohammadAGit doesn't get locked @ max frequency obviously16:39
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nid0I know, but my point is that oc'ing to for example 800mhz *is* a dynamic overclock, because itll only go up from 125/250 when it needs to16:40
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bib38How many degrees celsius should not exceed in  overclock ?16:40
* Stskeeps twitches16:40
SpeedEvilbib38: there is no temperature meter.16:41
MohammadAGtemperature isn't the only concern16:41
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X-FadeTemperature probably is not an issue at all for the cpu, but more for the lcd which is above it when closed ;)16:42
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MohammadAGX-Fade, at least the lcd can be replaced, unlike the cpu16:42
korhojoaSeriously. The package isn't there.16:43
* frals forces Stskeeps to take part in "Overclock your N900" discussion(s)16:43
* jaska hits frals with an internet spaceship16:44
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* frals sends some Ogre IIs in jaskas general direction16:44
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* MohammadAG expected a kick16:44
korhojoaNo-one cares?16:45
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Stskeepsfrals: "you're all idiots. <EOF>"16:45
fralsStskeeps: :D16:45
bib38Speedevil : If there have a temperature sensor with the application cpufrequi16:46
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MohammadAGbib38, he means there's no hw temperature sensor16:46
MohammadAGexcept for the one near the battery16:46
SpeedEvilwhich isn't very near the cpu16:47
SpeedEvilor the battery16:47
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* MohammadAG gives DocScrutinizer a beer16:47
* SpeedEvil gives MohammadAG a beetroot.16:48
* MohammadAG gives it back and says he's already drunk from tmo threads16:49
DocScrutinizeryou're insane16:49
DocScrutinizertmo is highly toxic - see what it gives us serveral times every single day16:50
SpeedEvilfrals: makes perfect sense.16:50
MohammadAGfrals, you just unmade my day16:50
Stskeepsfrals: anticompetitive lawsuit here we og16:50
SpeedEvilfrals: Buy ARM, sell new licenses only to companies that agree not to sell into phones, profit!16:50
fralsSpeedEvil, Stskeeps: yeah16:50
MohammadAG= end of Nokia?16:51
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: naah16:51
Stskeepsnokia's flexible in that regard16:51
MohammadAGwell at least we have intel16:51
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: arm is just the most common one16:51
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: there is mips too16:51
jaskanot to sell into phones? wouldnt that be most of arm users anyway?:)16:51
StskeepsMohammadAG: they can't exactly redact TI's license:P16:51
MohammadAGaren't mips crap? :)16:51
MohammadAG(no seriously)16:51
* MohammadAG looks at his PSP16:52
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E0xexist other low-consumer cpu16:52
E0xmip example16:52
DocScrutinizerapple bragged about creating their own SoC for next spyPhone. Maybe they realized there are less painful ways to avoid a epic fail16:52
RST38h"An article in the London Evening Standard claims that Apple has made an $8 billion offer to acquire ARM Holdings."16:52
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korhojoaVIA ?16:52
E0xand VIA have ones too16:52
* RST38h laughs diabolically, starts drawing a pentagram16:52
E0xand that is just a rumors16:52
E0xbut all apple rumer get real :D16:52
E0xsoon or later16:52
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: where's your warning?16:53
TomaszDholy shit frals is on a roll lately16:54
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SpeedEvilTomaszD: a nice sourdough one, with seeds?16:55
TomaszD...I... I guess...16:55
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TomaszDthe damn config dialog doesn't pop up at startup anymore16:56
TomaszDfrals, there are a couple of strings translators could handle, are you planning i18n support before 1.0?16:57
fralsTomaszD: i plan to get localization in there, depending on another blocker it might happen before 1.016:57
TomaszDfrals, ok16:58
fralsbasically if im not getting the stuff i need for autoconfig im gonna do the localization stuff16:58
fralsneeds some recoding as i been a lazy bastard in places and comparing to strings where i sohuldnt :p16:58
TomaszDfrals, IMHO you shouldn't release 1.0 before l10n support, but that's just MHO16:58
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lcukwazd, if you were going to make an 480*800 ui to do conversations, how would you expect it to look?  could you prototype it in your flash?17:14
TigerTaelI would like it to have flying widgets all over the screen, and they most move pretty fast.17:16
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TigerTaelNo need for text input or anything.17:16
pupnikand blinking text17:16
SpeedEvilfast and smoothly17:16
TigerTaelSMOOTH is a requirement.17:17
SpeedEvilalso - rotating and spinning in 4 dimensions.17:17
lcukTigerTael, :)17:17
lcukwatch all of it :p17:17
TigerTaelSpeedEvil, what about zooming in and out?17:17
MohammadAGhow do I restart tracker?17:17
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valdynMohammadAG: just kill it?17:17
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SpeedEvilMohammadAG: open media player17:18
MohammadAGI did that, it still shows no songs17:18
MohammadAG(had to hard reset it, but it's not rebuilding the db)17:18
SpeedEvilwait a bit17:18
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TigerTaellcuk, looking at it, waiting for load.17:18
SpeedEvilor at least it did for me17:19
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TigerTaelaha, sweet.17:19
StskeepsJaffa: MWKN heads up:
MohammadAGcpu load is close to 017:19
TigerTaelYou know what bugs me about the photo section? When you turn the phone quickly 180, sometimes the rotation is a bit jerky.17:19
MohammadAGshouldn't tracker put some load on it?17:19
valdynMohammadAG: sure it should17:20
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valdynMohammadAG: or it should mostly cause i/o load, but unfortunately causes both17:20
TigerTaelIt makes me feel sad. :{17:20
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* lcuk nods17:21
hrwStskeeps: nice17:21
fralsStskeeps: nice info17:21
TigerTaelGuys, I'm serious about this 180 degree photo bug...17:21
MohammadAGlooks like i need a reboot17:22
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valdynTigerTael: why is it relevant that the rotation is jerky?17:22
X-FadeStskeeps: wtf is up with those long lines :)17:22
StskeepsX-Fade: dunno, mail client problem. i think i have same issue on gmail. It wraps fine for me17:23
X-FadeYeah, I wonder why it doesn't do that in the archive though.17:23
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TigerTaelvaldyn, the user experience is crap?17:24
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TigerTaelI think user experience is very relevant.17:24
MohammadAGhmm, tracker isn't refreshing17:25
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valdynTigerTael: I cant reproduce that unless I run something in the background17:25
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TigerTaelvaldyn, I have it all the time.17:26
TigerTaelHold your phone almost flat, and then tilt it in the other direction so the phone thinks it has done a 180 degree rotation.17:26
valdynTigerTael: while having what exactly on the screen?17:26
MohammadAGah crap17:26
MohammadAGhome's full again17:27
TigerTaelA photo taken with your camera.17:27
TigerTael5mp for example.17:27
nid0whenever I do that I get the image perfectly smoothly rotating through 180 then another 180 on and on17:27
X-FadeTigerTael: Nearly every camera has that same issue.17:27
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TigerTaelX-Fade, and so?17:27
X-FadeTigerTael: Try shooting pictures straight down.17:27
TigerTaelThat makes it cool?17:27
TigerTaelThis is not about shooting pictures.17:27
X-FadeNo, that is just because it can't detect that.17:27
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nid0whats the issue..?17:27
TigerTaelHold on, let me copy and paste for you.17:28
TigerTael[16:19:40] <TigerTael> You know what bugs me about the photo section? When you turn the phone quickly 180, sometimes the rotation is a bit jerky.17:28
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valdynTigerTael: i got something worse, fullscreen is broken at that photo app17:28
TigerTaelvaldyn, sounds like you busted your maemo.17:28
nid0I thought so. I get no jerkiness when rotating.17:28
X-FadeAccelerometers don't record certain movements.17:28
TigerTaelIt's nothing to do with accelerometers.17:28
TigerTaelWhen doing a picture rotation, viewing a 5mp image that was taken previously, rotating straight to 180 degrees, image rotation is sometimes jerky.17:29
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TigerTaelAlthough I have the same problem with smaller pictures.17:29
valdynTigerTael: nah, its working now17:29
X-FadeTigerTael: You mean in the viewer?17:29
TigerTaelWhen you're viewing the image... Photo viewer if you want to call it that.17:29
valdynTigerTael: its a little jerky i could say, but its nothing that hurts usability anyway17:30
TigerTaelvaldyn, sometimes it gets stuck for like 500 msec.17:30
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valdynTigerTael: not for me17:30
TigerTaelUser experience matters...17:30
* MohammadAG dumps his apt cache onto the memory card17:31
X-FadeTigerTael: Fixed in PR1.217:31
TigerTaelX-Fade, for real real?17:31
X-FadeAs I can't reproduce it.17:31
TigerTaelOh, you have 1.2?17:31
valdynTigerTael: sure, but i know people who dont give a shit about smooth scrolling but everything about something *I* consider irrelevant17:31
TigerTaelvaldyn, the device wasn't made for you.17:32
lcukvaldyn, what matters to you?>17:32
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MohammadAGdoes the N900 support ext4?17:33
mgedminsmooth user experience is a feature17:33
TreibholzMohammadAG: no.17:33
mgedminthe N900 almost has it17:33
TigerTaelmgedmin, I agree.17:33
TreibholzMohammadAG: not the default-kernel17:33
valdynlcuk: speed17:33
MohammadAGTreibholz, mine has a mkfs.ext4 file, so i was wondering..17:33
lcukvaldyn, :) arent we all17:33
X-FadeTigerTael: Ah you mean it pauses at a 45 degree angle when really turning it a lot?17:34
MohammadAGTreibholz, what about ext3?17:34
lcuktalk to people about making small changes17:34
TreibholzMohammadAG: ext3 is working and used.17:34
lcuktogether they should add up17:34
TigerTaelX-Fade, well not necessarily 45 degree... but yes...17:34
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MohammadAGk, just making sure it doesn't need a kernel17:34
TigerTaelAnd then, if I rotate 90 degree after that, I've had the same jerky rotation. ;/17:34
valdynthis is sloppy anyway that the picture rotation stutters17:34
X-FadeTigerTael: I only get it when I get really ADD on the thing.17:35
lcukfor me, rotation occurs too much :$17:35
TreibholzMohammadAG: /home is ext317:35
lcuki take photos that fill the screen17:35
lcukwith device rotated17:35
X-FadeIt you encounter that, then you forgot to take your pills.17:35
lcukwhen i see it i wantto see it full17:35
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TigerTaelI like my N900 over my previous android phone...17:35
* haltdef_ came from windows mobile17:36
valdynTigerTael: btw, the n900 is made just for me, even if nokia would never admit that ;)17:36
haltdef_n900 blows it away, so responsive :P17:36
TigerTaelvaldyn, I beg to differ.17:36
TigerTaelhaltdef_, yeah I had WM before Android.17:36
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TigerTaelBefore that, Symbian S60...17:37
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TigerTaelAnd also Symbian UIQ17:38
waoTigerTael: what was you previous android phone?17:38
haltdef_been on WM since 2003 or so, dell axim x50v -> htc universal -> xperia x1 .. palm OS on a zire 72 before that :p17:38
wazdlcuk: no I can't17:38
TigerTaelwao, HTC Magic, Android 1.5, Android 1.6, Android 2.x17:38
Treibholzhaltdef_: the htc universal runs linux!17:38
korhojoaso what's the verdict on smartreflex?17:38
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haltdef_never in a usable way afaik17:39
korhojoaUse it if your phone works with it, don't if it doesn't ?17:39
haltdef_I broke mine anyway :P17:39
valdynis there a kernel for the n900 yet with colivas' scheduler?17:39
Treibholzhaltdef_: no, but neither was it useable with WM6 :-)17:39
waoTigerTael: oh, i'm quite negative to the htc. I'm waitin for the samsung galaxy s17:39
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TigerTaelwao, I refuse to buy HTC again.17:39
haltdef_me too17:39
haltdef_nothing useful out of them for a while now :P17:40
waoTigerTael: well, friend of mine recoomends me a HTC desire, but.. I just refuse :)17:40
jacekowskiopentyrian is fubar17:40
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pupnikn900 is the one with real linux and usable kbd17:41
jacekowskivaldyn: ck patchset is dead for over 3 years now17:41
valdynjacekowski: the bfs isnt dead, its rather alive and new17:41
hrwjacekowski: bfs is newer stuff from ck17:41
valdynand that photo rotation jerkiness would be a great way to see it do something useful17:42
jacekowskiis it any better than staircase-deadline?17:42
fralsso this guy said fmms was draining his battery faster (which might be true actually) and just to get some more figures from him he says the last version doesnt do it anymore, in which ive fixed nothing... >_<17:42
valdynjacekowski: he has benchmarks up17:42
TigerTaelMohammadAG, HTC devices aren't made that well. I've had two HTC devices die on me or fail in some way...17:42
valdynjacekowski: its for "small" machines17:42
TigerTaelMohammadAG, HTC support is terrible, their company practices suck. I had to reverse engineer the kernel for the HTC Magic for the community.17:43
valdyn( where small means < 16 cores  or somesuch )17:43
corecode_any news on the usb host efforts?17:43
jacekowskii'll have to check it17:43
TigerTaelAnd then, after my week of reverse engineering it, they release their version... which sucked. ;P17:43
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valdynwhile the scheduler thats actually on the n900 is for scalability up to 1024 or more iirc17:44
TigerTaelThe effect that had, the community wasn't as excited as when HTC released it because I released my version which worked flawlessly a week prior.17:44
jacekowskii was using old .21 i think it was because of ck patchset17:44
TigerTaelAnyways, gtg.17:44
jacekowskiand there was really usefull swap frefetch thing in it as well17:45
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valdynjacekowski: thats in mainline iirc17:45
corecode_valdyn: did you try the bfs?17:45
valdyncorecode_: no, i would have to backport the patch...17:45
hrwI solved swap problems in easier way17:45
corecode_valdyn: did somebody consider porting the changes to a more recent kernel?17:46
jacekowskiand i had my own patches for oom killer17:46
valdyncorecode_: im googling, i dont see anything promising17:46
ShapeshifterSo. Apple wants to buy ARM.17:46
jacekowskii think it might be worth porting part of it to n900 kernel17:47
jacekowskiShapeshifter: not going to happen17:47
Terje_Shapeshifter, or somebody wants to just spread a rumor and win by traiding stock.17:47
Shapeshifterhopefully not17:47
corecode_what would they gain in buying arm?17:48
valdyntheres alot more money interested in keeping arm independent i think17:48
corecode_and why would not intel have done that before...17:48
valdyncorecode_: intel cant, monopoly suit and probably conviction would follow17:48
Termanavaldyn: If you wait for the work to be done for the MeeGo kernel, there will be an n900 .33 kernel and you can apply BFS on top of that17:48
valdynTermana: oh, cool17:49
hrwvaldyn: but do not expect that maemo5 will work with that kernel17:49
lcukwazd ok17:49
valdynhrw: why not?17:49
corecode_Termana: good point17:49
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hrwvaldyn: it may work or not17:50
Stskeepshrw: replacing SGX libs it might actually17:50
corecode_Termana: any idea how soon that will be available?17:50
valdynhrw: yea, true. I just think its likely it will work.17:50
corecode_now, usb host, anybody?17:50
hrwStskeeps: is dsp interface which nokia uses still in .33?17:50
Stskeepshrw: it's dspbridge in maemo5, not gw17:50
Termanacorecode_: May release acording to Harri Hakulinen17:51
Stskeepsmost of the patches are already on meego-dev17:51
TermanaThat too17:51
hrwStskeeps: just after I left that ml...17:51
Termanahrw: Archives17:52
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corecode_Termana: oh cool17:52
corecode_so that will happen before 1.2? :)17:52
Termanaheh rimshot17:52
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MohammadAGdamn tracker17:54
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corecode_as it seems, meego is easier to access, source-wise17:58
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corecode_oh god, they're using quilt on the kernel sources18:00
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lcukwatching outright optimism turn to abstract horror in under 10 seconds, priceless.18:01
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corecode_they always get me18:01
corecode_why would they do that?18:02
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corecode_why not just a kernel source fork?18:02
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Stskeepsquilt where? :P18:03
* Termana chucks Stskeeps his blanky.18:04
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ShapeshifterIs there some way of enabling and disabling bluetooth over dbus or by any other scriptable means? I found this on the forums (for n810) but it doesn't work on maemo5: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=org.bluez /org/bluez/hci0 org.bluez.Adapter.SetMode string:discoverable18:05
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Treibholzis there another editor with syntax-highlighting except vim?18:09
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lcukShapeshifter, is there an extra space in that command18:10
lcukat the "org.bluez /org"18:10
lcukit looks like it shouldnt be there - did you pull that string out of tmo18:10
Disconnectlcuk: i still need to do that bug report. ended up working half the night instead :/18:11
Shapeshifterlcuk: yes I did. I retried without the gap and now it says Must use org.mydomain.Interface.Method notation, no dot in "string:discoverable".18:12
Shapeshifterhaven't used dbus actively a lot :|18:12
lcukme neither, but i know tmo cuts long lines and things like that space missing confuse it18:12
lcukShapeshifter, looks like that might not be it
lcukoriginal bluez wiki has same strings18:13
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meceoh noes, I killed tmo18:15
ShapeshifterError org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "SetMode" with signature "s" on interface "org.bluez.Adapter" doesn't exist...18:15
* Shapeshifter wishes back dcop18:16
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Shapeshifternot even org.bluez exists18:24
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achipasooo... what EXACTLY are the requirements for Nokia Messaging to show up in the service providers ?18:26
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ZogG_N900does fmms has irc chan?18:28
ZogG_N900MohammadAG_, here?18:28
MohammadAG_kind of18:28
SpeedEvilThe developer is here18:28
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ZogG_N900what phone company do u use?18:29
SpeedEvilZogG: ask the question18:29
MohammadAGfrals has a wiki on operator settings18:29
ZogG_N900i saw it18:29
ZogG_N900i just want my virgin connection settings18:30
ZogG_N900MohammadAG, do you have fmms?18:31
ZogG_N900SpeedEvil, i wanted to ask if there is a way to back up connection settings?18:31
ZogG_N900!ping me18:31
SpeedEvilback up?18:32
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MohammadAGZogG_N900, get the operator_settings file and let it autoconfigure18:32
ZogG_N900i mean restore ?)18:32
achipais there anyone who HAS flashed his N900 and manages to set up Nokia Messaging afterwards ?18:32
ZogG_N900MohammadAG, u mean to delete it?18:32
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korhojoaachipa: what do you mean nokia messaging?18:33
andre__achipa: depends on the country I'd say18:33
achipaandre__: what country ?18:34
achipaachipa: SIM, IP-based, regional ? cause all three are different18:34
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achipakorhojoa: the push mail thingy18:34
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MohammadAGsave it in /etc as operator_settings18:36
ZogG_N900xchat has popups18:36
MohammadAGachipa, yeah18:36
MohammadAGi reflashed about 20-30 times18:37
ZogG_N900MohammadAG, is it original?18:37
MohammadAGZogG_N900, it's from PR1.218:37
MohammadAGthe sdk to be more precise18:37
achipaMohammadAG: aand ? does it appear ?18:37
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MohammadAGachipa, yes, it does appear18:37
MohammadAGno problems with NM here18:37
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ZogG_N900MohammadAG, and if delete this file would it try to recreate itself?18:38
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MohammadAGZogG_N900, it contains operator settings18:39
MohammadAGfmms should detect the settings automatically18:39
ZogG_N900i understand that but i never changed the settings so somehower maemo got them.18:40
ZogG_N900fmms just screwed all my settings18:40
ZogG_N900btw do u use fmms?18:40
ZogG_N900and do u have 2 apn's with fapn?18:40
achipaMohammadAG: what's your N900's country (mine offers Finland by default)18:40
MohammadAGUS device, global firmware, israel18:41
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MohammadAGZogG_N900, the newest version of fmms doesn't need apns18:41
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ZogG_N900i updated and it's gone18:42
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ZogG_N900i mean settings18:43
MohammadAGZogG_N900, download the operator settings file and place it in /etc18:43
ZogG_N900btw what is the difference between firmwares?18:43
ZogG_N900i mean global asia and so on18:43
MohammadAGemergency numbers afaik18:44
ZogG_N900that's all?18:44
nid0its not even emergency numbers18:44
nid0at least not between uk <> global18:45
MohammadAGso what is it18:45
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nid0no clue18:45
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nid0but im on the global firmware and it perfectly well recognises the uk emergency number18:45
MohammadAGi think there's a 99999 emergency number18:46
MohammadAGactually not sure what it is18:46
MohammadAGbut someone mentioned it here18:46
nid0you mean 999?18:46
MohammadAGcould be18:46
nid0thats the uk emergency number18:46
nid0and global firmware recognises it18:46
MohammadAGnot here18:47
nid0in what way?18:47
MohammadAGit depends on the sim card then18:47
MohammadAGthe lock code screen18:47
nid0mine recognises it at the lock code screen with no sim in18:47
MohammadAGmine doesn't recognize it with the sim18:47
nid0you sure its the lock code screen, not the sim lock screen?18:48
nid0the latter wont recognise 999 with a non uk sim, and thats because of the sim, the phone's firmware makes no difference18:48
DocScrutinizer112 is hardcoded to GSM worldwide. Other emergency #s may be propagated by carrier's network18:48
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MohammadAGnid0, lock screen18:49
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nid0beats me then, the device lock code screen regonises 999 fine for me with or without a sim18:49
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MohammadAGhaven't tried without a sim18:49
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DocScrutinizernid0: it's not the SIM, it's the network to deliver alternative emrgency numbers. Even without SIM your modem scans for networks available *to call an emergency number*18:51
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jameswhi all18:52
jameswis anyone aware of a new maemo device coming out soon? i really need to get a new phone and the n900 looks good but I am concerned something better will come out soon18:53
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haltdef_it always does18:53
nid0DocScrutinizer: If thats the case I wish whatever magic smoke was used to do it was available the rest of the time - When this discussion last came up I went to the extent of going somewhere I know for an absolute solid fact no networks have any coverage whatsoever, tried entering 999 at the device lock screen, and *the very instant* I entered the 3rd 9, the pad gave me the emergency call option18:53
Disconnectjamesw: all the new devices are announced here first, so that they don't have to do all that advertising and marketing or anything. makes sure their competitors like htc and palm aren't surprised either..18:54
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nid0if that's not built into the firmware, it's some damn clever darknet they arent letting joe public in on18:54
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jameswi realize it may seem silly to ask in here Disconnect but i did just do some googling with not much luck18:54
jameswso i was hoping someone in here would have the heads up18:54
Disconnect..right. because its secret.18:54
jameswa lot of times it is.. :)18:54
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jameswdon't have to be a dick about it18:55
Disconnectthats my point. its not a secret if you can just wander over and say "tell me"18:55
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jameswanyone helpful?18:55
ZogG_N900pro ping out18:55
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ZogG_N900anyway it didn't help18:56
ZogG_N900changed it and rebooted. nothing happened18:56
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DocScrutinizernid0: that's not darknet, that's probably cache19:05
korhojoaHey, is it safe to move the apt caches out to emmc ?19:05
PhonicUKhow do you edit the menu in lxde?19:05
korhojoaI mean, that would save ~30 megs19:05
PhonicUKkorhojoa, the package cache is safe to move19:05
PhonicUKi moved it to MyDocs19:06
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korhojoa"someone" should make a wiki entry on keeping the rootfs in better shape19:06
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E0xPhonicUK: you can do a symlink19:06
E0xto Mydocs19:06
nid0a wiki entry for 1 line?19:06
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korhojoanevermind. it helps to search with different keywords in the wiki. found it:
PhonicUKthats what i did19:07
DocScrutinizernid0: for registration speedup at power-on, all sorts of info about last associated BTS are stored to some flash inside modem usually19:07
PhonicUKanyone know how to modify the Lxce desktop?19:07
Treibholzwhat is Lxce?19:08
PhonicUKnot desktop19:08
PhonicUK*LXDE not LXCE19:08
PhonicUKits the default desktop for the N900 version of debian19:08
TreibholzPhonicUK: try ~/.config/19:08
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Treibholznid0: there are even teachers for English in German schools, who cannot pronounce the 'th' properly.19:13
achipahow do I disable skype ? as in, I don't want it to create network traffic19:14
Treibholznid0: but I guess it's similar to English German teachers which the 'ch'19:14
Treibholzachipa: logout.19:14
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achipaTreibholz: on an N900 ? :)19:14
Treibholzachipa: logout from skype.19:14
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nid0Treibholz: I dunno, we can say "ch" quite alright19:14
nid0what gives brits a hard time is rolling r's19:14
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achipaTreibholz: nope, does not help, still goes aaround19:14
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korhojoaWhy can't places hire people who actually speak english instead of those who think they do?19:15
nid0achipa, eh? just set your availability to offline19:15
nid0no more network traffic19:15
achipanid0: so you think19:15
achipaopen tcpdump19:15
nid0well, so I know19:15
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achipaset yourself in offline mode19:15
Treibholznid0: most German can't say a rolling r, either.19:15
achipaand take a peek19:15
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korhojoaIt annoyed me enough when I had to get a private tutor in primary school due to the teacher and I getting annoyed when I kept noticing and correcting her mistakes.19:16
nid0my sister did private tuition for a while a few years back19:17
nid0(shes english and lives in germany)19:17
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Shapeshifterjust say Chuchichäschtli19:18
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DocScrutinizerwhat's that?19:18
Shapeshifterthe swiss word for kitchen cupboard19:19
DocScrutinizerachipa: powerful tools like tcpdump might give you lots of proper data output that's just hard to interpret if you're not used to it19:19
korhojoaHow the deuce is that pronounced?19:19
achipaDocScrutinizer: okay, I understand19:20
DocScrutinizerexactly like itz writtn19:20
* achipa goes to make some coffee19:20
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Shapeshifterkorhojoa: he's not doing a bad job (though way too fast):
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achipaof course, there is always the possibility that I have some trojan that trows udp crap around19:21
ZogG_N900SpeedEvil, are u still here?19:21
Shapeshifterkorhojoa: also, the swiss dude at the start says it right. the rest is just hilarious for a swiss viewer ;)
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* MohammadAG hasn't seen noobmonk3y today19:22
ZogG_N900can u tell me what files did fmms 0.7 changed for connections?19:22
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MohammadAGZogG_N900, ask frals19:22
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ZogG_N900frals, i'm asking you =)19:23
fralsit doesnt change any files19:23
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ccookeSo... what's special about the Joggler?19:23
nid0its dirt cheap19:23
ZogG_N900it changed my connection19:23
fralschanged your connection how?19:24
korhojoaShapeshifter: well. that's not so hard19:24
korhojoathe C isn't really that prevalent when pronounced19:24
Shapeshifterkorhojoa: that's right19:24
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achipaDocScrutinizer: I used to be a half Linux admin in one of my previous lives, so not a *complete* tcpdump newbie :)19:24
Shapeshifterkorhojoa: well, the Ch sounds like when you clear your throat19:24
ZogG_N900frals, it worked out of box and after i got fmms 0.7 and than upgraded gprs not workimg anymore19:25
korhojoastill not as throaty as in arabic, like khalifa19:25
DocScrutinizerachipa: I C.19:25
nid0achipa, iptraf network monitor in -testing is dead simple to keep an eye on19:25
ZogG_N900entered the connection manager and checked there all the options are blank19:25
nid0and it should show you that theres no net activity whatsoever from skype with it set to offline19:25
ZogG_N900can't restore the default19:25
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achipanid0: just amusing myself how many things disrespect the settings19:26
fralsit shouldnt modify any IAP UNLESS the iapid is z_fMMS-APN - which it isnt unless fMMS creates it in 0.9.x19:26
DocScrutinizerachipa: nevertheless I seem to have noticed a missmatch in what you both were talking bout. Skype offline status != N900 offline-mode19:26
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korhojoaPhonicUK: hey, did you move the microb daemon?19:26
fralsZogG_N900: also, if you change settings in internet connections that overrides whatever fMMS does so something else must be messed up for you19:26
ZogG_N900frals, i did update to 0.9 as i said19:26
achipaDocScrutinizer: yes. that's what I said originally. I don't want *skype* network traffic19:27
PhonicUKprobably not a good idea19:27
DocScrutinizerachipa: and I guess esp for skype it's hard to attribute some data packets to it, when you log those in tcpdump19:27
frals"after i got fmms 0.7 " afraid im not a mind reader :p19:27
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korhojoaPhonicUK: okely dokely19:27
ZogG_N900frals, the point that i changed after it didn.t work )19:27
korhojoaPhonicUK: well, i'm now at 57.6 free, so that should be ok19:27
ZogG_N900frals, i mentioned i updated19:27
fralswhat exactly did you change and where, and what doesnt work?19:28
PhonicUKyah thats more than enough19:28
achipawell something is happily throwing udp packets around, and in a pattern reminiscent of skype19:28
fralswell, "updated" can mean anything as theres about 30 different versions out19:28
PhonicUK30MB is usually fine19:28
PhonicUKim on about 2519:28
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DocScrutinizeranyway, me away now - anybody needs a german keyboard? (keycaps mat)19:28
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dymaxion_hi i'm trying to use flasher on Fedora12, but fails to recognise verison of libusb...  where can I get the source to recompile ?19:29
ZogG_N900frals, i specified version )19:29
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ZogG_N900anyway i didn't touch anything but got no connections19:29
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fralsyes, you said 0.7 twice, which led me to believe you were actually using that19:29
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fralsanyway go into fmms config and set connection mode to "Polite"19:30
ZogG_N900than got to forum and understood that fmms can change apn settings19:30
ZogG_N900i deleted fmms and didn't get back my previos connection19:31
fralsand save and it should appear again19:31
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ZogG_N900can i do it manually?19:31
fralsreinstall it then and change the setting and it will unmask it again, problem solved ;)19:31
ZogG_N900thank you19:32
fralsyes, set the simimsi in /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/<ID OF YOUR CONNECTION>/sim_imsi to your simimsi19:32
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fralsgotta make dinner now so afk19:32
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ZogG_N900thank you man19:32
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ZogG_N900i gotta go too but have few more questions so i'll try to catch you other time19:33
ZogG_N900also chatting from n900 is nice but desktop is more comfy for me19:33
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lardmanafternoon all19:37
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PhonicUK<3 debian on N900 :D19:38
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PhonicUKopenoffice and frozen-bubble :D19:39
PhonicUKesp once i got the sizes sorted so its not massive19:39
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SpeedEvilfrozen-bubble needs better controls19:40
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lcuk2hiya lardman \o19:41
* GeneralAntilles wonders who prodded mshaver into responding. . . .19:41
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lardmanhey lcuk219:43
ShapeshifterSo I looked at the code of bluezwitch to find out about how to toggle bluetooth through dbus, and he does: self.obj = self.bus.get_object('org.bluez', self.defaultAdapter); self.adapter = dbus.Interface(self.obj, 'org.bluez.Adapter'); and later self.adapter.SetProperty('Powered',False) or True to disable/enable it. But if I try pretty much exactly this through dbus-send, it fails. What I do: "dbus-send --system --type=method_call ...19:43
Shapeshifter... --print-reply --dest=org.bluez /org/bluez/hci0 org.bluez.Adapter.Powered boolean:true" and the error: "Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: Method "Powered" with signature "b" on interface "org.bluez.Adapter" doesn't exist"19:43
lardmanlcuk2: I passed by your locale yesterday, on my marathon train journey back from Glasgow19:43
lcuk2lardman, heh19:43
Shapeshifterthe hci0 thing I got from tmo, I don't see anything about that in the code19:44
lcuk2Shapeshifter, mm dunno19:44
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lcuk2lardman, were you stuck for long if so?19:44
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korhojoawell. fuck smartreflex then19:46
korhojoafirst crash ever after enabling it19:46
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hrwPhonicUK: let me guess - by 'Debian on n900' you mean 'Debian in chroot working as window on maemo5 desktop'?19:48
PhonicUKindeed, ive not bothered with properly running it yet19:48
PhonicUKmight do if i get a 16GB MicroSD though19:48
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lardmanlcuk2: nah not stuck, just had to train it as I didn't think the planes would fly; as it turns out they did - drat!19:49
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Shapeshifterlcuk2: nevermind I found a way (in python using bluezwitch code)19:49
lardmanbloody Kontact just crashed part way through an email19:50
korhojoa: /19:50
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Tornei've just picked up an N900 and I'm looking for some docs on how it boots, how to replace the kernel, etc.. the wiki seems to mostly talk about only the maemo 4 devices for that kind of thing..19:53
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MohammadAGTorne, it has maemo 5 entries too19:55
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TorneMohammadAG: for general stuff, yes, but the pages about booting from flash card and so on all talk about partition layouts that the n900 doesn't have (and jffs, which it doesn't have either)19:56
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Tornegoogle suggests n900 doesn't use initfs any more, which means all the instructions i can find don't apply :)19:57
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PhonicUKi cant find the .deb package for adobe flash player :\20:00
GAN900Torne, flasher replaces the kernel.20:00
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GAN900PhonicUK, because it's not there20:00
PhonicUKwhy not?20:01
GAN900Flash for Maemo is only licensed to device owners.20:01
inkbottleDo i have a dhcp client (dont find /etc/dhcp...)?20:01
PhonicUKi was wondering if the Maemo build would work on other similar hardware20:01
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TorneGAN900: right, but what about multiple OSes or similar? i want to be able to boot non-linux kernels..20:02
GAN900Torne, there should be a wiki article somewhere20:02
TorneGAN900: i agree that there should, but i can't find it if there is ;)20:03
GAN900PhonicUK, should.20:03
GAN900Torne, basically, install the multiboot loader and away you go20:03
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TorneGAN900: yah, but i can't find this. also, i would quite like some general docs on how booting works from the beginning (since i am an os developer)20:05
GAN900Torne, talk to Stskeeps. I don't have any links handy, but he's one of the experts.20:05
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inkbottleok, found: udhcp20:07
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TorneGAN900: my OS expects the standard ARM-Linux boot protocol where it gets passed a taglist with arguments, ramdisk location, etc.. u-boot provides this but I have no idea how nolo works ;)20:07
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fralsVDVsx: wanna meet up sunday/monday?20:12
fralsassuming my flight isnt grounded, that is20:12
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fralsgoes for anyone else around HEL ;-)20:17
frals+as well20:17
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korhojoawhen monday20:21
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VDVsxfrals, no sure about sunday, depends on saturday night events, but monday should works20:24
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caotic_IS anyone having problems ligin in to skype with the n900 ?20:35
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caotic_err: problems login into skype20:36, is there really no way to have more than one kernel? NOLO is that dumb?20:37
caotic_wierd , I cant log in in my n900 only on my desktop20:37
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Disconnectso just ooc who's bright idea was it to take out all the confirmations? :( "off" is next to "change profile" and works instantly. oops, so much for what you were doing.20:42
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lxp1i have tried to upload my kismet package to extras-devel. the build was successful, but it doesn't get imported.20:54
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GAN900Torne, NOLO meets the requirements Nokia set for it.20:55
Stskeepswhat are we discussing?20:55
lxp1there were already a kismet package from another maintainer but it was broken; is that the problem?20:55
StskeepsTorne, let's talk - what's up? :P20:56
luke-jrapparently there's iPhone fakes on ebay that are just a case + battery + LED20:57
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luke-jrIMO they should just clean up the advertising and sell them as legit fakes/cases20:57
haltdef_more useful than actual iphones20:57
luke-jrput your real phone in your pocket and use the fake on a belt20:58
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luke-jrmaybe put a BT headset in the fake20:58
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jogaand anthrax20:58
Shapeshifter      and you get a spare battery (if only you were able to change it easily)20:58
luke-jrShapeshifter: different kind of battery20:58
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Shapeshiftermakes sense ;)20:59
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luke-jrsomeone I know got it and is using it for his homebrew handheld ;)20:59
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trumeeguys is it possible to have multiple X terms21:01
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Stskeepsof course21:03
Stskeepsclick the menu21:03
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trumeeah. than21:03
trumeecrap always miss the autocompletion21:03
trumeeis there a way to change autocomplete word?21:03
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trumeei was hoping pressing arrow keys on autocomplete word would give another word, but it doesnt :(21:05
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: Torne was interested in a comprehensive summary on the bootprocess details from pushbutton to start of loading kernel image. I'm interested as well21:28
DocScrutinizerNolo... etc pp21:28
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: omap atags is pretty known21:29
DocScrutinizerwell probably it is, to the people who ever heard about it21:30
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DocScrutinizera iki page about boot process, with just these 5 words... better than what we have now, no?21:31
lcukiki pages are important21:32
DocScrutinizerheh lcuk, is your keyboard also recked?21:32
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lcukno hats up ith yours?21:33
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DocScrutinizerth e'wwwwwwww' key acts even more funny than he rest :-P21:33
FIQ[20:33:18] <DocScrutinizer> a iki page about boot process, with just these 5 words... better than what we have now, no?21:34
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lcukhat should i post on titter :D21:34
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DocScrutinizertitter is aesome21:35
* GAN900 hits lcuk.21:35 ?21:35
Treibholzhello orld!21:36
DocScrutinizerwames and wossip for wirls21:36
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lcuklol Treibholz21:37
DocScrutinizer~wiki atags21:37
infobotI couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves:
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DocScrutinizerwill fail, but...21:39
DocScrutinizer~google atags21:39
* SpeedEvil ins interested as well ( in bootprocess).21:39
Stskeeps is how things are passed from nolo to kernel21:39
Stskeepsfairly standard way21:39
SpeedEvilI offer one shiny onion as a prize to whomesoever completes this task (to collect).21:39
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DocScrutinizerwell, that's for the "source==specs==docs" church of insanity.21:44
DocScrutinizergoogling omap + atags gave me  plus a few >>The omap specific ATAGs will be going away soon, so please rely only on the configuration in your board-*.c file<< higher on the hit rank21:45
Stskeepsyeah, they are21:46
Stskeepstransferring to cmdline21:47
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: collect what?21:47
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opdf2man how do u avoid the "mobile" yfrog page from n900?21:50
opdf2it keeps redirecting me21:50
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Kamuiwhen did I spread rumors about OC riskyness21:51
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DocScrutinizer 2 days ago?21:52
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C-S-B-N900opdf2: you could change your browser id21:53
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opdf2can i just change it for that one site?21:54
C-S-B-N900not that I know of.21:55
C-S-B-N900wouldn't do any harm unless you like mobile sites.21:55
nid0hiding your user agent will break ovi store viewed from the device, tho21:55
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C-S-B-N900nid0: i dont think i ever visit ovi, anything worth seeing?21:58
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nid0there's always hope that may change if nokia decide to put more than one drunk broken-handed coder's worth of time into coding it21:59
lirakisany news on a 1.2 OTA22:00
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lirakisweak sauce22:01
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* DocScrutinizer throws tabasco extra hot at lirakis22:02
Stskeepsright, n8x0 with 2.6.33, first step..22:02
KamuiDocScrutinizer, Im a little confused22:02
Kamuiwhat did I do wrong22:03
lirakismeh ... tabasco is weak sauce.... got to go to thailand for the real deal22:03
Kamuihsould I not have talked about the OC at all?22:03
KamuiI don't remember saying that it was good or bad, jsut that my experience has been good so far22:03
C-S-B-N900been to thailand, whats the not weak sauce?22:03
Kamuioh, the 1.1ghz comment?22:03
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DocScrutinizerKamui: just I'm alergic to any statement about OC being 'good so far'22:04
lirakisC-S-B-N900,  pekanu <- sp peppers22:04
lirakisand sambal ...22:04
lirakissambal olek22:04
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DocScrutinizerKamui: as usually next thing to happen is another fool to jump the train and claiming for him OC is safe as he lives in greenland or sibiria22:06
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GAN900Kamui, OC failures occur in the weeks-to-months timeframe22:07
DocScrutinizerthen a crop of 20 fools rushes over all the temperature sensors on the N900 and packaging the 57th 'safe OC kernel - now with temperature watchdog'22:08
GAN900Kamui, so "good so far" is completely meaningless and lulls people onto a false sense of "this wont kill my device".22:08
DocScrutinizerGAN900: thanks for helping me out, mate22:09
GAN900Sure thing. ;)22:09
SpeedEvilGAN900: not quite.22:09
SpeedEvilGAN900: If there was a statistically valid sample of n900s locked to a gig for a couple of months, that would be a useful datapoint22:09
SpeedEvilSay 20 phones22:09
GAN900SpeedEvil, TI has done the testing, no?22:10
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SpeedEvilGAN900: probably - but you may not be able to get them to release those results.22:10
GAN900SpeedEvil, think there's a PDF. . . .22:11
GAN900Either way, everything I've heard says it's likely to cause early failure22:11
C-S-B-N900so what kernel should i instal for oc?22:11
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer22:12
KamuiGAN900, and DocScrutinizer, My fault there, I get your point.  I understand not everyone is going to be as easily able to replace their device in case of catastrophic failure22:12
SpeedEvilGAN900: there is a pdf - but it only goes up to the specified clock max, and is undefined for what happens in reality if you clock the chip in the device up to 1G22:12
MohammadAG_C-S-B-N900, the one called kernel22:12
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DocScrutinizerC-S-B-N900: funny, HAHAHA22:13
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer22:13
* MohammadAG_ wonders what that was for22:13
MohammadAG_could be kickban for the regexes :P22:13
Treibholzor for the HAHAHAHAHA22:14
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: I'm still dangling on a regex able to get the semantic details22:14
C-S-B-N900how is the battery once you overclock?22:14
Treibholzwhy do you all want to overclock...22:14
C-S-B-N900and can you run a governer?22:14
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, just ban *overclock*22:15
* Treibholz just doesn't understand the kids.22:15
Treibholzmaybe I'm too old.22:15
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DocScrutinizerthen I'll frequently ban myself, on ranting22:15
MohammadAG_Treibholz, don't insult me! :P22:15
pupniki oc'd lots of cpus in my day22:15
* MohammadAG_ went back to stock a week or two ago22:16
MohammadAG_prolly two22:16
MohammadAG_listened to DocScrutinizer22:16
lcukn900you are the first lol22:16
lcukn900docs is now having a party ;)22:16
DocScrutinizerduh, who's insulted? I don't get it as well, and though everybody knows I'm a grumpy old man, I don't like to get pointed at the fact ;-P22:16
lcukn900docs how young?22:17
* MohammadAG_ guesses in the 30s22:17
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lcukn900btw how tight do ppl hold n900 around water?22:17
MohammadAG_I almost broke it :P22:17
lcukn900yes i need a lanyard strap22:18
ShadowJKare you crazy, I don't let it near water22:18
MohammadAG_nah, it should be safe22:18
C-S-B-N900till my knuckles are white22:18
lcukn900810 had big metal handle22:18
MohammadAG_I mean, what would water do that rice wouldn't fix22:18
lcukn900my 900 is being held tighter than anything22:19
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, I got insulted, he said he hated kids, and kids usually means teens these days :P22:19
DocScrutinizerguys, the hing is basically *open* - like in 'no lid sealing the electronics'22:19
MohammadAG_it leaks light here, so I got that part :P22:19
DocScrutinizernever get it next to water, not even heavy rain22:19
toggles_wlol, i washed mine22:19
MohammadAG_the PS3 game?22:20
lcukn900it rained in amsterdam22:20
GAN900lcukn900, two ziplock bags for boating/kayaking.22:20
lcukn900i need to check if maps works now22:20
MohammadAG_lcukn900, just hold it from the kickstand :P22:20
lcukn900someone mentioned condoms for n810 once22:20
lcukn900moh cant on 90022:20
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: you RMAd your broken vib?22:20
* C-S-B-N900 fears for the n900s of the world.22:21
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MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, RMAd?22:21
C-S-B-N900returned ...22:21
C-S-B-N900i think22:21
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: stupid bussines taljk for repair sendin22:21
lcukn900csb it was worse i think there were other smart devices in the bag with randy 81022:21
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MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, nope, just sent a dbus command to make it vibrate overnight and it fixed itself22:22
C-S-B-N900mo, how did your vib break?22:22
lcukn900overuse lol22:23
DocScrutinizerdebris from fab I suppose22:23
* MohammadAG_ slaps lcukn900 with a large trout22:23
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_ milled it to dust XP22:23
MohammadAG_C-S-B-N900, it broke on day 222:23
C-S-B-N900what happened?22:23
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, lol yeah22:23
MohammadAG_C-S-B-N900, it just stopped working (made a weird sound instead of a vibration)22:24
MohammadAG_like something was stuck in it22:24
DocScrutinizerwhich you bet was22:24
C-S-B-N900ouch, well you dislodged whatever was stuck22:24
MohammadAG_then it worked for a day after I ran for a bit22:24
* frals slaps lcuk with bacon... mmm... bacon!22:24
C-S-B-N900be it a component or bacon22:24
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MohammadAG_so I thought it might help if I made it vibrate22:24
lcukn900haha frals22:24
DocScrutinizermmmh dinner22:24
DocScrutinizerso what's the meaning of [2010-04-22 21:16:04] * MohammadAG_ went back to stock a week or two ago22:26
MohammadAG_600MHz :)22:26
DocScrutinizeraah kernel22:26
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DocScrutinizeryou know the cars with elecronic engine management, when they were all new? You had a jumper to tweak the engine to high-grade fuel. And the car got 5% faster when setting that jumper, no matter whether you actually got high-grade or normal fuel.22:31
gevaertsBut could you undervolt the car?22:31
opdf2i was tryin to find a way to quickly post pictures and return URL to me. No plugin exists sooo... I just created a twitter and followed that account. so the link to a yfrog image gets texted to me22:31
DocScrutinizergevaerts: what is 'undervolting'?22:32
MohammadAG_lower voltage I assume22:32
Stskeepsfor the N810 users in here:
MohammadAG_the "XLV" kernels22:32
DocScrutinizergevaerts: you got any idea what it does and why it should have any positive effect?22:32
MohammadAG_short acronyms make them sound cool22:32
CorsacStskeeps: nice :)22:32
Stskeeps2.6.33 kernel22:32
CorsacStskeeps: I really need to buy a new micro or minisd :)22:32
gevaertsDocScrutinizer: it will lower power usage with only the slight inconvenience of possibly making the thing crash all the time22:33
DocScrutinizergavin: so what?22:33
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, if overclocking (or even locking at 600) causes electromigration, wouldn't "undervoltage-ing" cause it too?22:33
DocScrutinizerundervolting won't *cause* electromigration, but it most likely won't stop it either22:34
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RST38hafaik, lower voltage means less electromigration22:36
RST38hbut then I may be wrong22:36
gavinDocScrutinizer: ?22:36
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gavinoh, autocomplete mistake22:36
DocScrutinizersee, basically in OMAP with SmartReflex every lil function block has its own regulator controlled in a way to ensure lowest power consumption at a given clockrate. Now with undervoltage you simply lower the voltage drop across these mini-regulators, but they will continue to power up the function blocks the are responsible for as soon as the see they need to for ahigher clockfreq22:37
DocScrutinizergavin: sorry22:38
DocScrutinizerRST38h: ^^^22:38
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DocScrutinizerso current (which is causing electromigration, together with the 'wire diameter') may still be higer on critical pathes at higher clock, even when you massively undervolt *the internal regulators*22:41
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* MohammadAG_ wants a bigger /home partition22:42
DocScrutinizerergo-> it's clock freq that matters. NOT voltage, and NOT temperature22:42
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MohammadAG_I meant undervolting on 600MHz <DocScrutinizer> undervolting won't *cause* electromigration, but it most likely won't stop it either22:43
Stskeepsi'm looking at my n810 serial output..22:43
Stskeeps Core:   658 MHz  L3:     109 MHz  L4:     109 MHz22:43
Stskeeps  MPU:    329 MHz  DSP:    219 MHz  IVA:    109 MHz22:43
MohammadAG_It would cause instability, I know (and I'm not really planning on doing it)22:43
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summelsomebody from germany with an n900 here?22:43
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG_: see above. It might marginally save bat capacity, but at he expense of driving the internal regulators into a non-stable operation range22:45
dmj726_n900and the regulators wouldn't deliver lower voltage to the compoments even if undervolted themselves?22:45
DocScrutinizerdmj726_n900: exactly22:45
MohammadAG_which might use the saved battery capacity and result in no change :)22:45
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CorsacStskeeps: now yum install xfce4 !22:46
* dmj726_n900 is not familiar with the exact operation of the regulators22:46
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StskeepsCorsac: if it was built for arm, i would22:46
DocScrutinizerdmj726_n900: that's my understanding of how smartreflex gear fits together at least22:47
dmj726_n900perhaps they behave like op amps and can be driven out of their linear range?22:47
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DocScrutinizerdmj726_n900: all the above from a few sales papers about how great smartreflex is. And adding to that the fact TI is NOT quoting temperature for component wear. AIUI it's a simple freq vs. endurance 2D-table. Which makes perfect sense with the other bits about smartreflex22:50
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DocScrutinizernor is there any factor about core voltage afaik22:50
dmj726_n900what does their curve say for all the people running at 900 mhz?22:51
dmj726_n900perhaps they assumed a given voltage?22:51
DocScrutinizerit's just "@500MHz you need at least Volt for the OMAP to be stable"22:51
dmj726_n900though that would seem odd in technical documentation.22:52
DocScrutinizerdmj726_n900: why should they do that??22:52
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SpeedEvilDocumentation almost never mentions performance outside recommended limits22:53
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* frals slaps Noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout22:54
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* Noobmonk3y eats frals.......22:54
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Noobmonk3yhmmmm tastes fishy.....22:55
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TorneStskeeps: sorry, i had to go home :)22:55
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TorneStskeeps: I guess I shall have to poke at the boot process myself then22:55
TorneStskeeps: or find out who wrote NOLO and ask them. i happen to, er, work for nokia. though not on maemo. ;)22:56
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: but if there were some influence of voltage *inside* recommended operation conditions, don't you think TI for sure whould have published it?22:57
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: in an ideal world, that would be nice, yes.22:57
StskeepsTorne: talking to the people behind nolo helps, yes22:57
* MohammadAG_ slaps Noobmonk3y 22:57
TorneStskeeps: the alternative is to disassemble it, which is also a thing in my power ;)22:57
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I suspect what we are seeing is a limited number of tests and charachterisateions were done, and we're seeing the worst case extrapolation of those.22:57
Torneit might be easier than findign who in nokia to talk to ;))22:57
StskeepsTorne: n900 or n8x0?22:57