IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-04-21

threshRST38h: and your pocket feels 700 EUR heavier00:00
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RST38hthresh: Not really :)00:00
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Khertanmy preproduction unit doesn't seem to have differences with the final one00:01
RST38hthresh: I have been stopped by Perekrestok security on Sunday btw00:01
RST38hthresh: Wanted to know what exactly I was shoplifting =)00:01
Arkenoihaha00:01
Arkenoidid you just tell them to fuck off?00:01
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RST38hArkenoi: No, I showed them, and then they fucked off.00:02
AppiahArggh00:02
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AppiahI found the answer, case-sensitive tag00:02
Appiahtitle= vs TITLE=00:02
* Arkenoi never shows anything00:02
* RST38h never carries anything worth hiding00:03
Arkenoido you know that all they can do is to call police and they do not have any right to hold you until it arrives?00:04
RST38hArkenoi: Fine with me00:04
Arkenoiso you just tell them to fuck off and they do00:04
RST38hArkenoi: Well, they also have job to do, and I am courteous, until fucked ith00:04
RST38hwith00:04
Arkenoiah00:05
wazdcan anybody show me panucci icon please?00:05
Arkenoiwell, if they are polite enough, i may behave differently.00:05
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threshare there any 32Gb microSDHC cards btw?00:06
RST38hthere are00:06
RST38hSanDisk just started selling them, but they are $200 and class200:06
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:06
RST38hSo, I would suggest class6 16GB instead.00:06
threshduh, class2 sucks.00:06
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threshindeed.00:06
threshi need class4 at least00:06
RST38h$40-$5000:06
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threshnot that n900 will play 960p 8Mbit videos from my camera, but still00:07
Arkenoii doubt our reader is above class 400:07
Arkenoidid any of class 6 card owners benchmark?00:07
thresh8 mbit is class 1, IIRC00:07
RST38hthere are read and write speeds00:08
RST38hhave to consider both00:08
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RST38hand, btw, class is supposed to set minimal speed limits, not maximal00:09
ShadowJKminimal speed limits in ideal conditions00:10
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threshi seriously doubt they even provide minimal ones00:10
ShadowJKeh?00:10
RST38hthresh: they do00:10
RST38hthresh: A moment00:10
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threshI mean not every class4-marked chip will provide needed speeds.00:11
RST38hthresh: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sdhc-memory-card,2143.html00:11
RST38hthresh: enjoy00:11
Arkenoiwhat is bottleneck for scp to n900? i hardly get more than 0.5Mb/s, but cpu utilization is relatively low00:11
* ShadowJK gets over a megabyte/second00:12
Arkenoiso something is wrong with my setup00:12
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threshArkenoi: I've got similar speeds.00:12
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RST38hfile system performance + flash performance00:13
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threshssh is heavy anyway00:13
RST38hreboot00:13
threshtry direct rsync00:13
SpeedEvilI get consistently 1.5M/s00:13
threshwithout -e ssh00:13
SpeedEvilFor ssh00:13
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Arkenoii was told that microSD is faster than internal flash, is it true?00:14
SpeedEvilArkenoi: maybe for write00:14
SpeedEvilread is practically the same speed for all three00:14
SpeedEvil(large block read)00:14
SpeedEvila bit more than 10M/s00:14
Arkenoisome people adivse moving swap to microSD card. it will die someday for sure, but they are relatively cheap00:15
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ShadowJKFor swap use, random write speed is what matters most00:19
ShadowJKand that tends to be pathetic00:19
ShadowJKfor *SD cards00:19
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SpeedEvilI'm not sure pathetic is a strong enough term.00:24
SpeedEvilAlso - for swap use - with the current broken-for-flash swap algorigtm.00:24
SpeedEvilfor one that understood flash, and simply wrote in a linear stream, it's quite OK.00:24
javispedroit is written in blocks of 8*PAGE_SIZE00:25
ShadowJKI remember thinking about this in the past00:26
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SpeedEviljavispedro: ?00:26
ShadowJKiirc there was a significant but tolerable memory overhead for optimizing swap for flash00:26
SpeedEviljavispedro: you really want to only write contiguously - or worst-case - blocks of ~128K or more. Anything else has horrible rewrite penalties00:27
SpeedEviljavispedro: as the underlying memory is copied and rewriutten after erase00:27
ShadowJKjavispedro, nokia's kernel writes it in bigger chunks than that00:28
javispedroah no, I got that wrong: it is READ in blocks of 8*PAGE_SIZE00:28
ShadowJKBut that only applies to initial swapout anyway00:28
ShadowJKafter stuff has been written to swap once it stays in the same place00:28
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Macerugh... cmon dell! damn! :) i don't even know what carrier they are sending it00:30
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ToOnche?00:31
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Maceri want my n900!!!! ahhh!!!!00:31
Macerheh00:31
* Arkenoi got my n900 delivered in 3 hours00:32
MacerArkenoi: wtf? :)00:33
Macerdid it come on horseback?00:33
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Arkenoia pretty girl brought it00:33
Arkenoii paid her cash and that was all00:34
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Macerwas it marina harisson?00:34
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Arkenoinope, just some nameless delivery girl. but pretty one. well, not really nameless, but i forgot her name.00:35
Macerit must have been marina00:35
ShadowJKWho are you, the president of her fanclub?00:36
Macer:)00:36
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* ShadowJK destroyed some nokia headset to harvest a magnet to make microsd work with mugen battery00:37
Macerhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B002OB49SW/sr=8-1/qid=1271799249/ref=dp_otherviews_z_0?ie=UTF8&s=wireless&img=0&qid=1271799249&sr=8-100:37
Macermarina is hawt00:37
Disconnectok so tomorrow i'm supposed to be a "twitter correspondent" for a live event. any recommended twitter clients? ideally able to follow a hashtag feed, replies and a quick/simple posting interface. (for pics/vids i can use pixelpipe, and qik for live streaming)00:38
DisconnectMacer: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=marina+harisson00:39
* Arkenoi wonders if someone will ever hack iPad to run Mer. get rid of apple anal occupation and it is a nice thing00:39
Disconnectwow that makeup did wonders for her ;)00:40
DisconnectArkenoi: looks like android is going there first. (well, 'first' being 'after he got debian running in a chroot' i guess). there's a thread on the android lists, evidently its halfway functional. lock screen and desktop. (no idea about wifi/cell/...)00:41
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* GAN900 needs MeeGo on his N1.00:41
blizzowIs there any ETA for the next update to Maemo for N900s?00:42
ArkenoiDisconnect, but i seriously doubt it will run *that* fast :-(00:42
MacerDisconnect: it was Harisson00:42
pupnikso when do we march on the bureaucrats who shut down air travel00:42
dima202Is there a tutorial on how to use ESbox to compile?00:42
DisconnectMacer: look at the url.00:42
Disconnecter, the link.00:42
Maceri am00:43
Disconnectpupnik: go get started on that, i'll catch up00:43
Macerit is a google search00:43
Macer:)00:43
DisconnectMacer: the actual text of the link. "&q=marina+harisson00:43
Maceryeah it it brings up harrison :/00:43
Macersome beauty queen00:43
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* Disconnect can't help it if google can't spell ;)00:43
PhonicUKhey all00:44
pupnik23:43 <+kermit> apple in 2000 - "starting to regret all those things you said  about geeks?  well we've got gear you can operate that chicks  will think means you're a geek too."00:44
Macerhttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgetmobile.com/media/2009/08/nokia-n900-press-1.jpg00:45
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lcukmarina is on pr1.200:45
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Macerlcuk: haha00:49
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Macerwhy is edward such a whining bitch in the twilight saga?00:52
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* PhonicUK made a donation to freenode and feels happy about this ^_^00:54
fralsquick everyone hide noobmonk3y is here00:55
PhonicUKi just realised00:55
PhonicUKnoobmonk3y must live *really* close to me00:55
noobmonk3ylol PhonicUK  :P00:55
fralsi feel for you PhonicUK!00:55
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noobmonk3yi only stalk you occaisionally :P00:56
PhonicUKlol :P00:56
PhonicUKim judging by our IPs/hostnames ofc00:56
PhonicUKi could be 100 miles or so out xD00:56
PhonicUKI'm in Bristol, do you hail from anywhere near?00:56
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PhonicUKalso as a fellow BT user, I feel your pain00:56
noobmonk3ylol :P00:57
Macerhaha00:57
noobmonk3yi'm near brighton :P00:57
noobmonk3yBT Business thoug, so no idea where that pops out :P00:57
PhonicUKah00:57
noobmonk3ythough*00:57
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PhonicUKblimey you're most of the way across the country00:57
* noobmonk3y prods frals 00:57
PhonicUKi was out by about 400 miles xD00:57
noobmonk3ylol only about 120, not too bad00:58
noobmonk3ywas only in bristol 2 weeks ago :P00:58
PhonicUKim also really bad at judging distance xD00:58
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noobmonk3yhahaha00:58
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PhonicUKfancy a cider if you're around here again? always nice to meet fellow maemo enthusiasts00:59
PhonicUKhey we should have a meetup of UK maemo users ^_^00:59
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noobmonk3ylol phonic, we did 2 weeks ago in exeter ;)00:59
PhonicUKfuck why didn't i know about this :(01:00
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PhonicUKi was in exeter last week xD01:00
noobmonk3yhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4847101:00
noobmonk3yvideos somewhere in tehre too01:00
PhonicUKserves me for not following the forums01:00
noobmonk3yzail, who lives near bristol came down :P01:00
noobmonk3ywas also one in birmingham the week before01:00
noobmonk3ylcuk,  was the hired entertainment ;)01:01
PhonicUKi so would have come if i knew about it :\01:01
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fralsi think you should all get over to stockholm and have a meet up01:01
noobmonk3y:D - will be arranging one in london soon :P01:01
PhonicUKooooh01:01
fralsas theres about 2 of us here who got n900s01:01
noobmonk3yfrals, was there 2 years ago :(01:01
PhonicUKlondon is easier for me to get to :)01:01
lcukwe should meet in iceland01:01
noobmonk3ylcuk, i'm up for that!01:01
* PhonicUK doesn't have a passport :\01:02
lcukamazing country01:02
javispedrosummit in iceland!01:02
lcukyou could do your photography noob01:02
N900evilwhat do we throw down the crack of doom though?01:02
PhonicUKbtw noobmonk3y (and any other Brits)01:02
lcuki would find and potentially try to marry bjork01:02
PhonicUKive been working on a little project for the N900 which will make you all love me xD01:02
noobmonk3yyeah lcuk  :D01:02
lcukPhonicUK, you sussed out how to get constant vibration and waterproofing working01:03
* noobmonk3y shudders at the thought of lcuk/bjork babies roaming the world01:03
PhonicUKnot yet, but that's on the agenda :P01:03
accumulatorhahaha01:03
PhonicUKa Spotify client that looks good and has offline support ^_^01:03
* noobmonk3y has never used spotify :P01:03
PhonicUKUSE IT!!!01:03
PhonicUKIT IS SIMPLY AWESOME!01:03
noobmonk3ymeh...01:03
* javispedro had until they removed half of the discography01:03
noobmonk3yi prefer lcuk's idea :)01:03
PhonicUKI still use it on my N9701:04
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lcukaccumulator, i thought you were aSIMULAtor for a minute then01:04
PhonicUKand i keep my N97 purely for spotify01:04
* lcuk pokes adele to wake up01:04
PhonicUKits funny because if you keep it in offline mode and never give it a network connection, you can keep using it after your sub expires xD01:04
pupnikwhat is spotify for01:04
PhonicUKits a on-demand streaming music service01:05
javispedrowith spooky voice ads01:05
lcukwhos gonna be follower 150? http://twitter.com/lcuk01:05
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PhonicUKjavispedro, not for us premium users ;)01:05
PhonicUKtbh the only reason i got premium was for mobile/despotify use01:05
PhonicUKlcuk, refresh01:06
lcukhurrah PhonicUK tis you, and Disconnect is 15101:06
PhonicUKmy twitter feed is depressing01:07
lcuknow i only need several billion more and ill catch up with some other twittererererers01:07
PhonicUKalthough my most recent posts are a bit odd...01:07
lcuki gave you your 14801:07
javispedromake an army of twitbots01:07
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PhonicUKawesome01:07
fralswhos gonna be follower 150? http://twitter.com/frals01:07
lcuknahh i like seeing real friends :)01:07
lcuklol01:07
frals:D01:07
PhonicUKwho's going to be follower 149 and 150? http://twitter.com/phonicuk01:07
* noobmonk3y has hardly any followers, but does have frals as a stalker :D01:08
fralsi think you got that backwards noobmonk3y!01:08
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Disconnectwho's gonna be follower 250 http://twitter.com/disconn3ct :)01:08
PhonicUKnot me :P01:08
* noobmonk3y would never do anything backwards in the vacinity of frals..... you never know what may happen ;)01:08
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PhonicUKwho is gregjroberts  ?01:09
fralsdunno some damn monkey01:09
PhonicUKlol01:09
fralsnoob as well i think01:09
* lcuk somehow now feels like he needs to increase his twitter followers immensely01:09
noobmonk3ybloody monkeys01:09
lcukperhaps i should actually make an app or something01:09
PhonicUKlcuk, thats easy01:09
PhonicUKjust follow 10000s of people, and unfollow anyone who doesn't follow in return01:09
noobmonk3ylcuk,  an app? - you dont actually need to release one, just copy frals, pretend you are and produce pretty screenshots ;)01:09
fralslol01:09
fralsthat was pretty funny actually01:10
* Disconnect has legit followers. mostly from android stuff tho.01:10
* PhonicUK loves qt-creator01:10
lcukand make sure i give them proper version names01:10
fralslike my first proof of concept with a gui01:10
lcuk0.9 the floppy fest01:10
noobmonk3y:D :D01:10
fralsand someone goes "wtf that doesnt prove anything"01:10
noobmonk3ythey are cool names :P01:10
PhonicUKi had an awesome idea for a feature of a programming language01:10
* lcuk likes naming conventions like that01:10
PhonicUKbut no way to add it xD01:10
lcuki like to make release numbers that have meaning01:10
fralslcuk: i hope your not hating on my versioning scheme!01:10
PhonicUKto go with try, catch, finally - "retry" and "alsotry"01:11
lcuki think i have 0.1.2  and 0.3.45 type things01:11
PhonicUKto use the same catch code for multiple 'tries'01:11
Disconnectlcuk: v1.2 the probably-doesn't-format-your-sd-card release?01:11
fralsim just bumping them randomly ;D01:11
lcukheh01:11
lcuki still have blockers in liqbase that i should tend to01:12
lcuknow i seem like a ninja at optification01:12
lcuki should optify liqbase too ;)01:12
* Disconnect was hacking on swsuspend before journalling filesystems were common. now there's some versions :) "01.11 we promise not to overwrite the superblock with resume data this time" :)01:12
PhonicUKex.TargetSite.DeclaringType.Name01:14
PhonicUKeeh, wrong window :\01:14
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blizzowwhen is PR1.2 due out?01:16
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lcukblizzow, the pr1.2 robot has a rule which says pr1.2 can only be released if no1 in the channel or on tmo mentions it for 2 hours01:17
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Disconnectblizzow: i got a pm with a link yesterday01:17
blizzowhmmm so I assume that means it's close?01:18
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lcukblizzow, why does it mean that01:18
fralswhen will the volcano stop spitting ash all over europe?01:19
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PhonicUKfrals, only when a human sacrifice is made!01:19
javispedropr1.2 can't come to europe because of all the ash01:19
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pupniknicki lauda says flight ban based on untruth: "such ash has been over europe many times"  http://alles-schallundrauch.blogspot.com/2010/04/niki-lauda-uber-das-flugverbot.html01:19
blizzowlcuk: if it's in the wild or being distributed outside official channels, I'll assume that means it's kind of close.01:19
lcukits taught everyone to read maps agaiN!01:20
PhonicUKEurope is about to asplode and they don't want everyone trying to fly out and overpopulat the rest of the world which would otherwise be unaffected </crazyconspiracy>01:20
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lcukwhy didnt you say that then blizzow, where can i get it from?01:23
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PhonicUKhmm,01:25
PhonicUKDo I want to go Tri-SLi, or get a new 4xx series card...01:26
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frals5970 in crossfire01:27
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PhonicUKnForce motherboard :P01:27
PhonicUKalso, nVidia 3D Vision01:27
PhonicUKalso, PhysX01:27
PhonicUKi wonder what the response time of the N900s screen is...01:28
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PhonicUK3D vision on an N900 would be mad01:28
PhonicUKi wonder if its built in IR could directly drive the glasses...01:29
lcukwrong direction01:29
PhonicUKIR bounces01:29
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PhonicUKdirection aside, i wonder if its possible01:29
lcuknot reproducably01:29
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PhonicUKhmmm01:30
* PhonicUK has a idea01:30
lcukjust put a piece of cardboard between nose and middle of screen01:31
lcukthen draw 400*480 on one half01:31
lcukand 400*480 on the other01:31
lcukit should give mean time before headache somewhere in the fractions of a second, but will look fantastic!01:31
PhonicUKif i do cat /dev/lirc0 i should see any data set to the IR port?01:32
jacekowskino01:32
jacekowskithat's one way port01:32
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jacekowskiit can only send01:32
PhonicUKcrap01:32
jacekowskibut drivin these glasses seems to be good idea01:32
jacekowskithat would be posh01:32
PhonicUKindeed01:32
lcuk"i'd have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for you pesky kids"01:32
jacekowskiwatching 3d movies on phone01:32
PhonicUKif the screen can refresh at 100fps that is01:32
jacekowskiyou don't need 100fps01:33
jacekowskijust 5001:33
jacekowski2x2501:33
PhonicUKyeah but you'll get a terrible flicker01:33
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jacekowskino01:33
jacekowskiit's LCD01:33
jacekowskiLCD doesn't flicker like CRTs01:33
PhonicUKthe glasses will cause the flicker01:33
jacekowskimhm01:33
jacekowskiright01:33
PhonicUKat < 100hz you can actually see the shutters turning on and off01:33
jacekowskii forgot about that01:34
PhonicUK70hz is pretty much the minimum tollerable01:34
* Disconnect has an old set of ir-driven eliza glasses. they were a neat experiment.01:34
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jacekowski100hz with very good LCD is a problem01:34
PhonicUKyeah01:34
Disconnectand yah, they pretty well insisted on 75-100hz minimum (on crt)01:34
PhonicUK70hz would suffice though01:34
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jacekowskifrom the other side01:34
jacekowskiN900 has very good LCD01:34
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PhonicUKdoes anyone have IR reciving equipment and 3D glasses to hand? xD01:35
jacekowskino01:35
jacekowskii have equipment01:35
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jacekowskibut no glasses01:35
DisconnectPhonicUK: see above. i don't know what the coding is though, they required specific (nvidia iirc) cards, and the ir xmitter plugged into the card01:35
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jacekowskiDisconnect: it has to be quite simple01:36
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PhonicUKthe ir xmitter for these glasses is a standalone unit that plugs solely into USB01:36
lcukDisconnect, you may be correct, the sync from the ir came direct from the card in older models afaik01:36
PhonicUKit was on the vrefresh from the VGA connector01:36
lcukahhh PhonicUK01:36
Disconnectyah it grabbed it off vsync or some such.01:36
PhonicUKi used to have a set of eDimensional glasses01:36
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PhonicUKwhich used such a dongle01:36
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PhonicUKit also leeched power from the PS2 keyboard01:37
jacekowski£120 for glasses01:37
PhonicUK£250 for glasses + monitor :)01:37
Disconnectok time to go take the jeep aaprt01:37
PhonicUKwhich is what i got01:37
jacekowskimore than i would like to spend on something like that01:37
PhonicUKcan anyone recommend an IR reciever?01:37
Disconnect(so I can plug the n900 in. cuz it may be neat, btu the fm transmitter is pretty sucky)01:38
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jacekowskitsop 173601:38
jacekowski+ logic analyzer01:38
PhonicUKsomething i can plug into USB and read from :P01:38
lcukPhonicUK, i used o have a great ir recv unit, it went inline with my keyboard, and when i shot special signals at it it would send keys01:39
lcukbut i digress01:39
jacekowskitsop 1736 + AVR with usb port01:39
PhonicUKhow much though01:39
Disconnectlcuk: prolly still get it in the gags-and-jokes section of thinkgeek :)01:39
lcuki dont know how to read raw data other than making an adapter to mic port01:39
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lcukive seen them around01:39
lcukjust a mo01:40
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PhonicUKhttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=1850543801:40
jacekowskiosciloscope and/or logic analyzer01:40
PhonicUKjacekowski, http://www.mtbs3d.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-321101:41
PhonicUKsomeones already done it :D01:41
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PhonicUKso its just a matter of how to transmit that from the N90001:41
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jacekowskihmm01:42
jacekowski200Hz01:42
lcukDisconnect, http://www.funnychill.com/files/funny-pictures/with-and-without-flash.jpg01:42
lcukshit01:42
lcukerrr i meant http://cyli.livejournal.com/33460.html01:42
PhonicUKi suspect it would be easier to use the headphone jack adapter and make an audio file with that pattern01:42
fralshmm01:42
fralsalmost 01, time for bed me thinks01:43
jacekowskinot really01:43
jacekowskitoo low voltage to drive ir diode01:43
fralsgot a day tomorrow of doing assignment on semaphores and threading in some custom stripped down os \o/01:43
lcukfrals, thats a good version number01:43
PhonicUKah01:43
lcuk"1.0 time for bed me thinks"01:43
fralslcuk: :D01:43
jacekowskiand it's not designed to output square wave01:43
noobmonk3yanyone know how i can set all pushbuttons to one stylesheet code - instead of identifying and repeating?01:43
fralslcuk: its settled then, fMMS 1.0 will be known as "time for bed me thinks"01:44
PhonicUKwhat about the N900s internal IR?01:44
jacekowskiwith so much DC bias01:44
lcuknoobmonk3y, make a wrapper around newbutton() function01:44
lcukto call original button() then apply style01:44
noobmonk3y:|01:44
jacekowskiyeah, use internal IR01:44
fralsnoobmonk3y: loop over them and set it!01:44
wazdhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=619411&postcount=28 - I've updated some icons, if anyone interesting in feedback :)01:44
PhonicUKhow would i get those timings though?01:44
noobmonk3y:|01:44
jacekowskithat's not hard01:45
noobmonk3ysure there is an easier way in css - by setting Qpushbutton or similar01:45
* lcuk does not know css01:45
noobmonk3yinstead of using name, but without setting the app01:45
PhonicUKoh?01:45
fralswhy are you using css btw?01:45
lcukchecking the health of it01:45
frals:D01:46
lcukof course!01:46
lcukwhy else does the mighty noob do anything01:46
fralshell if i knew01:46
lcukheh01:46
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jacekowskihmmm01:46
lcukim goin anyway01:47
lcukhave things to try01:47
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jacekowskiyou will have problem to sync ir signal with display01:47
PhonicUKi think i know how to deal with that01:47
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jacekowskifrom the other side01:48
PhonicUKits the how do i get the device to output that waveform that im not sure about01:48
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jacekowskiyou need to decode 50fps01:48
PhonicUKjacekowski, the nVidia drivers keep in sync by effectively quad buffering01:49
PhonicUKswitching regardless at Xfps between the two primary buffers01:49
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PhonicUKand swapping the two pairs of buffers around whenever the screen is redrawn01:50
jacekowskiPhonicUK: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/i/irreco-backend-internal-lirc/irreco-backend-internal-lirc_0.1.3.tar.gz01:50
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PhonicUKapt-get install irreco-backend-internal-lirc01:51
jacekowskibut you will have to play around with pwm settings01:51
jacekowskino01:51
jacekowskidownload that file01:51
PhonicUKi have extas-devel enabled01:51
jacekowskiand read it01:51
PhonicUKok01:51
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jacekowskithat's source of it01:51
PhonicUKrighto01:51
PhonicUKtime for me to sleep all01:51
PhonicUKsee you later01:51
jacekowskiso you will know how to talk to ir thing01:51
PhonicUKcool :) ty ^_^01:52
PhonicUKlater all01:52
PhonicUKnn01:52
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noobmonk3ylcuk, for future info it is - Qapp.setStyleSheet("QPushButton {01:53
noobmonk3ywill set ALL pushbuttons to the style you set :P01:53
noobmonk3ycan mix and match so set all pushbuttons and combo's etc in that style01:53
lcukcool01:53
noobmonk3y:D it even sets the system buttons (like progress bar buttons :D ) yay!01:54
lcuknice one01:54
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Disconnectlcuk: back. nice link but why not just use an ir receiver and irdatools?02:58
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Disconnectfor first charge/discharge, do i want to let it run all the way down till it bails? need it to be vaguely well calibrated tomorrow and i can take whatever time after that to make it right. i just need to not have it die on me..03:02
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SpeedEvilDisconnect: there is no internal IR reciever03:07
SpeedEvilwell03:07
SpeedEvilthere is no internal suitable IR reciver03:08
loft306so it sux?03:08
SpeedEvil?03:08
loft306the ir on the n900?03:09
SpeedEvilTehre are many areas of the phone that could have done with another $.50 in parts03:09
loft306heh03:09
lcukloft306, the remote control on tv has no ir recv - does that mean it sucks?03:09
SpeedEvilHowever - this might add up to $20 on the cost, and $40 on the price03:09
SpeedEvillcuk: I think you mean transmitter03:09
loft306so anyone  other than some of the dev phones loose there usb port?03:09
lcukthe remote control can tx ok03:09
jd4200I'm a bit confused as to the file structure on the n900. Within xterm my camera folder is called "DCIM" but from the filemanager its called "Camera"; there are also differences with other folder; any ideas how to change this?03:09
lcukit has no recv tho03:10
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lcukits called DCIM because thats what the camera expects03:10
lcukbut its got a human name03:10
DisconnectSpeedEvil: i mean in general, not on the n900. the link was an issue with "don't know the code".. get the code with irda-tools on something that has an ir receiver03:10
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javispedro"There are many areas of the phone that could have done with another $.50 in parts"++ so true. unfortunately this is more and more common with consumer electronics everyday.03:11
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loft306yepyep03:11
SpeedEvilah03:11
jd4200lcuk: Is there any way to change this, I like it organised my way. Same with the images folder its called ".images" but "Images" in a file manager...sorry just bugs me.03:11
lcukthen look at translation files, afaik the name changes based on country03:12
lcuki dont know how viable such a statement would be ^03:12
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lcukbut you may be able to do something03:12
jd4200thx03:12
javispedroyou'd have to look at hildon-fm package03:12
javispedroit's open source, fortunately03:12
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* lcuk was thinking from a non code method03:12
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javispedrohm.. but names of "actual" folders are in the code iirc.03:13
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javispedroofc names of the "virtual" folders are in .po/translation files03:13
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javispedroso, to change ".images" name -> edit hildon-fm source, to change "Images" -> edit translation03:14
lcukand have it break after next update to system03:15
javispedroyes, so not easy03:16
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crashanddieyooo03:16
crashanddiewassup guv?03:16
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lcuknuffin im on way to bed - i had a late night last night and im not repeating tonight lol03:17
javispedroheh, me too.03:17
javispedroah, battery running out -- see you.03:18
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dotblankhello03:51
dotblankCan anyone help me optify a package I made03:52
dotblankmaemo-optify-deb creates lots of issues and doesn't properly optify it03:52
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pupnikdotblank: go back and take better notes?04:05
crashanddie_pupnik: be helpful, go take your meds.04:05
crashanddie_Microsoft looking at using ARM processors in their data centers04:07
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crashanddie_dotblank: can you qualify "creates lots of issues"04:08
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dotblankcrashanddie_, It only optifies one file04:12
crashanddie_what is the size of the other files?04:13
dotblanknot large04:13
dotblankentire package is 715KB04:13
crashanddie_then it probably doesn't require optification?04:14
crashanddie_I'm not familiar with maemo-optify-deb, but I seem to recall arguments that only files of over 500kB ought to be optified04:14
dotblankhttp://pastebin.com/vEhDteyx04:15
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GAN900crashanddie_, yo.04:15
crashanddie_yo GAN900, wassup?04:15
GAN900crashanddie_, depressed that I'm super jetlagged from a 3-hour time change.04:16
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crashanddie_GAN900: that's normal04:16
crashanddie_GAN900: travelling east is always bad, as soon as it's 2 hours or more04:16
dotblankI new to packaging and im trying to make sense of optifying. I know why it is needed. I suffer from the no rootfs space problem. I would just like to use this as kinda a learning exercise04:17
GAN900Plus the Yankees fan behind me who kept moving phlegm around his respiratory system didn't help me sleep04:17
crashanddie_GAN900: most people can travel halfway across the world (literaly) west and keep working as normal, but travel 6 hours east and you're lost.04:17
GAN900Thank god for those crappy Bose noise cancelling headphones04:17
crashanddie_haha04:18
crashanddie_GAN900: heard about Microsoft looking into ARM servers?04:18
crashanddie_dotblank: how big is /opt/maemo/usr/share?04:19
crashanddie_dotblank: du -sh /opt/maemo/usr/share04:19
GAN900crashanddie_, orly?04:20
dotblank60K/opt/maemo/usr/share04:20
crashanddie_dotblank: weird04:21
dotblankyea I know04:21
dotblanklet my try changing the path in the makefile and rebuildit04:21
dotblankI looked at the source to maemo optify and it seems to exclude optifying certain directories04:22
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dotblankand it is inclusive as well04:22
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dotblankthe problem is that when I optify it the default config directories get changed and are different from the build time location04:23
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izzoxhello all04:52
izzoxi just wonder if the n900's stylus fit in the slot of the n810's04:53
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izzoxanyone tu help me?04:59
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luke-jrdid izzox seriously just PM everyone in the channel?05:30
tank-manyoure the special one.05:30
crashanddieluke-jr: what did he say?05:31
izzoxjust wondering wether the n900's stylus fit the n810's slot05:32
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dmj726I don't know, though you could try one of fake's stylii?05:32
crashanddiestylii doesn't exist05:32
crashanddiestylus05:33
crashanddieplural styluses05:33
dmj726stylii is a valid plural form I think.05:33
crashanddieno, it isn't05:33
crashanddiein latin, the plural would be styli05:34
crashanddieplural nominative, second declension05:35
crashanddiebut considering that you're speaking english, and that the plural of stylus, in english, is styluses, just use the damned word and stop pretending you're smarter than are, which obviously, you're not.05:35
dmj726looked it up...styluses is technically preferred, but stylii is often accepted these days.05:35
crashanddiedude, stylii doesn't exist, whether it's in english or latin05:36
dmj726http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stylus05:36
crashanddiegod you're thick05:36
crashanddieeven wikipedia shows it's with A SINGLE i05:37
dmj726No need to be a grammar nazi.05:37
crashanddiewhich makes a world of difference05:37
crashanddiestyli != stylii05:37
crashanddiejust don't use words you think make you appear smarter, and I won't have to05:37
dmj726'The form "styli" or even "stylii" has become acceptable, even among major American manufacturers of styluses and online dictionaries'05:37
dmj726Who said I thought it made me appear smarter.05:37
dmj726I used the form that I thought was correct, and looked it up and found that it's considered acceptable, but the form you suggested is better.05:38
crashanddiedmj726: that whole paragraph finished with [citation needed], and the last sentence reads: "Use of "stylii" is considered incorrect, as it is based on the nonexistent Latin word "stylius"."05:38
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dmj726Then why does the sentence above it say that it is "acceptable"?05:39
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crashanddiebecause it's wikipedia?05:39
crashanddieand everyone adds whatever they need to win an argument?05:39
dmj726At any rate, there's not much need to harp on it.05:40
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crashanddiehttp://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Dstilus05:40
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crashanddienow there's a real resource ;)05:40
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Disconnecthttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stylus05:48
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crazyhorsswhat is the package that includes whereis07:41
crazyhorsswhois07:42
crazyhorss*07:42
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RST38h<yawn>07:42
crazyhorssand tracert07:42
crazyhorsstraceroute*07:44
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swc|666[21:41]  <crazyhorss> what is the package that includes whereis ... uh, its called whois07:50
swc|666the package name is called whois*07:50
swc|666apt-get install whobe07:51
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crazyhorsswhobe?07:57
crazyhorssclosed irssi by accident.07:57
crazyhorsscan you repeat that info plesse?07:58
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mece(07:50:30 AM) swc|666: [21:41]  <crazyhorss> what is the package that includes whereis ... uh, its called whois (07:50:41 AM) swc|666: the package name is called whois* (07:51:21 AM) swc|666: apt-get install whobe07:59
mece's all I got.07:59
crazyhorssok, thank you. i'll have a look07:59
swc|666whobe was a joke, sorry08:00
meceLOL08:00
mece:D08:00
crazyhorssah, i thouht as much08:00
mececrazyhorss, what were you really looking for?08:00
crazyhorsswhois and traceroute08:01
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RST38hand apt-get install traceroute did not work?08:06
RST38h"School Lunches Deemed A National Security Threat by Retired Military Officers"08:06
crazyhorsscouldn't find package08:06
RST38h"The retired officers are saying that school lunches have helped make the nation's young people so fat that fewer of them can meet the military's physical fitness standards, and recruitment is in jeopardy."08:07
RST38hcrazy: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4925908:08
RST38hcrazy: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5/traceroute08:09
RST38hcrazy: (and yes, I simply typed "traceroute maemo5" into google)08:09
crazyhorssthanks, me too i didn't find this link08:10
mecefuckn telewell piece of shit! AAarrgh08:11
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MiXu-dsl modem?08:13
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crazyhorssyou just solved 8 problems for me with that RST38h08:22
crazyhorsswith that link*08:22
crazyhorssthank you very much08:23
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crazyhorssthis is great, just missing whois though09:05
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* noobmonk3y screams BACON SANDWICH09:58
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* frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout10:00
fralsbastard, now i need breakfast10:00
noobmonk3yMorning :D : D:D10:00
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fralslo mate10:01
fralshows you?10:01
noobmonk3ymeh... still in bed, not wanting to wake up or goto work :(10:02
d14:)10:02
* d14 in work :S from 8:10am10:03
noobmonk3yhehe10:04
Stskeepsnoobmonk3y: i have the best combination. able to work from bed ;)10:04
noobmonk3yi could be, as work is literally 200metres away :P10:04
noobmonk3yStskeeps, so so sooo unfair....10:04
squiddStskeeps: thats heating10:04
squidd+c10:04
noobmonk3yStskeeps, it does help that you sleep on servers i suppose ;)10:05
* noobmonk3y wonders if X-Fade opened up room in his server bed? hehehe10:05
Stskeepsnoobmonk3y: no servers, actually zero electronics except for a lamp and mobile charger in my bedroom :P10:05
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Stskeepswife wouldn't have it ;)10:05
noobmonk3ywoah :| :| :| freaky!!10:06
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crashanddieMeh, finally found something I can easily do :)10:09
crashanddieWrite an SMS exporter :)10:09
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crashanddied14: been at work for 9 hours now :(10:10
crashanddiewanna go back to the hotel10:10
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crashanddiefuck me10:16
Stskeepsno thanks10:17
Stskeeps:P10:17
crashanddieflights from Australia to Europe: $1700010:17
crashanddie(in economy)10:17
Stskeepsthink everything's a bit insane atm10:18
fralsO_o10:18
* noobmonk3y blinks10:18
noobmonk3yfrals, made me breakfast yet? :P10:18
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d14crashanddie: get some fastfood ;) and go to bed! :)10:19
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* frals slaps noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout10:19
Stskeepsls10:20
StskeepsERROR: fail user10:20
* noobmonk3y eats the trout, regurgitates the trout, re-moulds the trout into a trouty-chicken and then slaps Frals around the face with a Trouty-Chicken......... Tadaaaaaaa10:20
Stskeeps:P10:20
crashanddied14: it's 5:30PM, hardly time for bed xD10:21
crashanddiedjeez10:21
noobmonk3ysiesta? :P10:21
crashanddieand say that I was pissed because I paid 1000 pounds to fly back10:21
crashanddielet's just hope my flight won't be canceled10:22
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noobmonk3ythe missus's mum is trapped in New zealand :P10:22
fralswell isnt all of uks airspace open now?10:23
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noobmonk3yfrals, think so, but stil delays getting everyone back to their homes i assume10:28
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noobmonk3yshit......... gtg to work :(10:28
noobmonk3ysee ya'll laters10:28
fralsciao10:28
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* noobmonk3y gets outta bed n rolls down the hill10:28
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Stskeepsah, the 'smoku' guy is in warsaw ('say no! to a qt-based maemo') guy10:31
Stskeepsi wonder if i should arrange a meetup and see if vodka can get him on better thoughts10:31
tekojoStskeeps, but the world needs opinions10:32
furunk3lyes hello10:32
Stskeepstekojo: true10:32
tekojoOh, morning all :)10:33
frals"In the beginning I was not able to use it because I am not a tech user. With your latest releases this has changed. I was finally able to send and receive MMS problem-free on my N900 without lots of difficult settings."10:33
fralsVICTORY!10:33
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tekojofrals, I'll let my wife try it now :)10:34
crashanddiefrals: sounds exactly like one of those make-me-slim ads10:34
fralscrashanddie: :D10:34
jogaooh...MMS...I think in my lifetime I've sent two or three. are those actually popular somewhere?10:34
fralsthe 130k downloads of fMMS leads me to believe there are a few users out there ;)10:35
crashanddiefrals: "In the beginning I was not able to lose weight because I am not into sports. With your latest product this has changed. I was finally able to lose weight and maintain my current weight without lots of difficult exercises."10:35
fralstekojo: let me know how it goes :)10:35
crashanddieThank you fMMS!10:35
fralsrofl crashanddie10:35
korhojoafrals: well, I use it10:35
vilinyYou guys are making the world a better place - hope it feels good :)10:35
crashanddieanyway, going back to the hotel, talk in a bit10:36
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fralskorhojoa: :)10:38
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hrwmorning10:40
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Guinterfacehello10:52
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Guinterfacehello kmfdm10:53
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Shapeshifterbtw, is it possible to use maep with a predownloaded version of the openstreetmaps to save traffic and speed up loading?10:58
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timeless_mbpsp3000: ping11:22
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timeless_mbpi've been asked to give a list of improvements in the browser between 1.1 and 1.2 :)11:22
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hrwtimeless_mbp: 1.2 does not exists11:27
Surfaof course it does11:29
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Surfabut only for testing purposes11:30
Surfa..for now..11:30
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timeless_mbphrw: 1.2 images exist11:33
timeless_mbpwhat will actually ship to customers may or may not exist11:33
timeless_mbpdepending on whether management decides that what exists today is acceptable11:33
hrwtimeless_mbp: as a user I can say that I do not believe in pr1.2 existance11:33
timeless_mbpbut for the purposes of the request i received, 1.2 exists sufficiently for me or sp3000 to be able to satisfy it11:34
timeless_mbphrw: you're welcome to do so11:34
hrwtimeless_mbp: but 12 November may change it11:34
timeless_mbp?11:34
hrwtimeless_mbp: thats my guess for PR1.2 release11:35
ShadowJK:)11:35
hrwand to follow nokia release dates rules I do not tell a year11:35
timeless_mbps/tell/indicate/11:36
hrwok11:36
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, who requested changelog, can changelog be shown before release? :-)11:37
hrwtimeless_mbp: and to tell the true I doubt is it worth waiting for it. whenever it will be released it will be 2-4 months old already11:37
hrwShadowJK: changelog is in wiki11:38
timeless_mbpShadowJK: a documentation team11:38
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timeless_mbpand since all they want is feature highlights, yes, we can give it to them in advance11:38
sECuREhrw: do you have a link?11:38
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ShadowJKhrw, considering my N900 is perfectly usable as it is, with even older software, I doubt the age makes much difference :)11:39
hrwhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.211:39
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sECuREthanks11:39
hrwShadowJK: in 2021 maemo^wmeego calendar will gain all features of palmos 2.0 datebook11:39
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* timeless_mbp ponders11:40
TigerTaelI just wish sync with google based contacts/calendar worked better. ;/11:40
* ShadowJK wonders if the current Calendar fulfills the spec for it ;D11:40
timeless_mbphrw: actually the wiki does have things which are relevant. e.g. webcal:11:40
timeless_mbpmaybe i should work from that list11:41
hrwShadowJK: my opinion about maemo5 calendar is not something to publish - too much curses, too small amount of other words11:41
timeless_mbp… i think the serif font stuff is probably notable11:42
ShadowJKLuckily the only defect I've discovered, autolaunch at 4am, seems to be fixed :)11:42
hrwbut it is better then my opinion on developers which wrote it anyway11:42
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MohammadAGmornin'12:06
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Viliny_n900anyone here used the google latitude program?12:07
Viliny_n900 mine just declares it updates but my location won't update on google12:08
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MohammadAG|o noobmonk3y12:20
* noobmonk3y blinks12:20
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* MohammadAG lowers noobmonk3y_Work's salary12:20
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hrwbtw - which version of palmos emulator works with n900?12:24
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* lcuk raises noobmonk3y_Work's salary - you now get £0.03 a month12:29
RST38hDoes "J" stand for acorns?12:29
lcuk£ you mean?12:30
lcukpeanuts are the normal currency12:31
* frals slaps noobmonk3y_Work around a bit with a large trout12:31
lcukfrals, careful he might like that12:33
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fralsaye is why im doing it ;)12:33
lcukheh12:33
Arkenoicould it be that the problem with builtin media player is that it does *not* cache input stream and thus *any* io delays cause it to jerk imeediately? If yes it should be quite easy to fix..12:34
auenfheh, if you see "J", you obviously are using the wrong font, or are missing unicode12:34
MohammadAG  battery.voltage.current = 3531  (0xdcb)  (int)12:34
lcuk£ is not unicode12:34
* MohammadAG waves hand12:35
auenfit shouldnt be12:35
auenfbut i cant type it ;)12:35
FauxFaux£ is not below 127.12:35
MohammadAGumm12:35
MohammadAGdoesn't voltage go down?12:35
MohammadAG  battery.voltage.current = 3584  (0xe00)  (int)12:35
crashanddieMohammadAG: voltage fluctuates12:36
MohammadAGoh12:36
crashanddieMohammadAG: depending on how much current is being pulled, etc12:36
MohammadAGwhen does it shut down?12:36
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auenfhttp://www.webmasterworld.com/forum21/6614.htm12:36
auenfaparently the russians are to blame...12:36
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FauxFauxIrssi pisses with it too, these days.12:37
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threshwut wut wut12:37
crashanddieFauxFaux: no problems here12:37
threshrussians are never to blame, it's our govt12:37
crashanddiethresh: your government is russian?12:37
crashanddiethat would make you a russian, thus you are to blame12:38
FauxFauxcrashanddie: I bet you have "/set recode" on.12:38
auenfsurely the euro symbol would have a similar issue with cyrillic fonts also ;)12:38
crashanddieFauxFaux: I do indeed12:38
jacekowskithe problem is that there are 2 £ symbols12:38
jacekowskidepending on encoding12:38
jacekowskior even 312:38
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FauxFauxIn FauxFauxencoding17, £ occupies code point 3.12:39
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dazojust if you haven't seen it ... http://blog.mjg.im/2010/04/16/theora-on-n900.html ... pretty impressive results with Theora on N90012:41
auenfseems there is a unicode GBP symbol also12:41
auenf£12:42
crashanddiedazo: fake results12:42
crashanddiedazo: they locked the CPU at 600Mhz; the whole thing is borked.12:43
crashanddiedazo: so his "80% idle" claim can go away right awat12:43
crashanddieaway12:43
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dazocrashanddie:  true ... but my point is that compared to the oter decoders/methods ... it really shows a good improvement ... "80% idle" is really debatable, but getting proper offloading to DSP and GPU can give good results12:44
SpeedEvildazo: maybe12:45
crashanddiedazo: and anyone who understands what a DSP is knows that12:45
SpeedEvildazo: sometimes offloading a task to the dsp is not worth it if you have to keep the dsp awake, and the cpu has to be up anyway12:45
auenfwhy 80% idle, and the fps is lower?12:45
SpeedEvilvideo is probably not in that class generally12:45
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crashanddieauenf: because the DSP is doing all the hard work12:47
crashanddieauenf: however the DSP has a limited bandwidth12:47
auenfso surely its not viable using that method if you're going to lose fps?12:48
SpeedEvilauenf: umm - video is fixed fps12:48
auenfaltho its still above the 24 or 25fps needed for most videos12:48
X-FadeIt is actually pretty funny the audio part is the most expensive part.12:48
SpeedEvilauenf: you don't usually want to play it back at 150fps just because you can12:48
auenfjust those ntsc ones are going to be dropping frames12:48
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SpeedEvilntsc is usually presented as deinterlaced 30hz12:50
* Arkenoi definitely needs a solution to make media playback reliable regardless of what is going on in background12:50
auenfwell, 29.97fps interlaced12:50
auenfif its progressive (film) source, it will be 24fps easy12:51
SpeedEvilplaying back interlaced on a lcd is pointless12:51
auenfthats what on the fly deinterlace is for12:52
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* noobmonk3y_Work farts........... hmmmmmmmm smells of trout!12:55
frals:D12:55
* noobmonk3y_Work blames frals 12:55
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MohammadAG_~curse battery life12:55
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, battery life !12:56
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* viliny administers windows xp12:58
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hrwviliny: any idea then why laptop after fresh xp home instalation takes ages between selecting 'shutdown' in start menu to appear of shutdown options?13:03
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vilinyhrw: bad GFX drivers causing stalling on the dim effect?13:05
vilinyi hate old laptops more than anything13:05
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SpeedEvilviliny: Send me all your old laptops!13:06
SpeedEvilWhat do you consider old?13:06
vilinybad battery, worn surface, slower than a [Analogy missing] and smells funky.13:07
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vilinyAnd clit mouse/touchpad worn beyond rape13:07
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vilinyReason is, people tend to bring me their 6 year old laptops that are in horrible shape and expect me to do some magic on them so they can suddenly have a working fast machine again. Most of the stuff is beyond help but i'we installed ubuntu on a few as a faster alternative...13:08
SpeedEvilah13:08
vilinyi just don't plain like them13:08
hrwviliny: will check newer catalyst then13:09
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vilinyhrw: i hope you find a solution13:10
hrwSpeedEvil: my wife's toshiba l30 has not existing rlt8139 ethernet (forget that linux will work with it), aging atheros wifi (forget cifs/nfs mounts, only sshfs works)13:10
* noobmonk3y_Work shudders13:11
vilinyold laptops fill me with despair13:11
vilinyespecially in these modern times when you can get a device that works 5 times as fast for 400 euros13:12
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vilinywith the added benefit of it not being a greasy lump of slow plastic but a brand spanking new thing you can show off and not be embarassed to carry around13:12
* SpeedEvil loves his x60s13:13
vilinyi holster a Asus G50VT13:13
* SpeedEvil has a n900 if I want to wave my thing around in public13:13
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hrwI have dell d400 with 6% battery13:14
vilinySpeedEvil: why the eff does a core duo sport 512 of ram?13:14
SpeedEvilviliny: ?13:14
vilinyx60 specs here13:14
SpeedEvildunno. Got 2 in mine13:14
SpeedEvilwhich it came with13:14
SpeedEvil(according to the IBM site - I haven't had it from new)13:15
vilinysays the screen supports 1024x76813:15
SpeedEvilyes13:15
SpeedEvilI would like a higher res screen13:15
SpeedEvilbut on balance13:15
hrw1366x768 is what I plan13:15
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vilinyi hate ibm laptops because i can't estimate their age with a quick glance :/13:16
hrwviliny: simple - if it has IBM on it then it is old13:17
SpeedEvilI actually would much rather have ~1500*1100 - but that model was rare13:17
SpeedEvil(and yes - I want 4:313:17
vilinyhrw: you mean the lenovo thing or?13:17
hrwyep13:17
SpeedEvil(actually 4:4 - but that's a seperate issue)13:17
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vilinyhrw: well the lenovo thinkpads still seem to look like the +10 year old ibm laptops13:17
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SpeedEvilSome have been cheapened.13:19
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vilinyi like my G50VT - sturdy as hell and still looks modern :)13:19
ShadowJK512M of ram and vista, it's the norm ;D13:19
SpeedEvilhttp://blog.dk.sg/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/DSC08723.jpg13:20
vilinyfugly but seems portable13:20
vilinywhats the battery life on that?13:21
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SpeedEvilhonestly - I'm rather shocked that my _really_ old laptop - toshiba portege 3110CT - stacks up quite well in many ways13:21
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vilinyoh?13:22
SpeedEvil~10h battery life (with fresh recelled battery), nice keyboard, metal case, 1.05kg13:22
wazdSpeedEvil: what is it? :)13:22
SpeedEvilof course - it diddn't come with wifi, and ...13:22
vilinythats not bad at all13:22
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vilinyheh... thats not that good13:22
SpeedEvilhttp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.pc178.com/images/notebook/toshiba/3110ct/toshiba3110ct001.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pc178.com/notebook/toshiba/toshiba3110ct.htm&h=333&w=500&sz=21&tbnid=sa0XzSVjdtP00M:&tbnh=87&tbnw=130&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtoshiba%2Bportege%2B3110ct&usg=__tOta5cXP3_hTj9MNxDWgelsuveQ=&ei=-dHOS7SdLJLw0gSovLzpDw&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=8&ct=image&ved=0CCcQ9QEwBw13:23
SpeedEvilno - for a 10 year old device though13:23
vilinyah speaking of the portege13:23
wazd Talking about the rapid  improvement in cameraphone technology during a speech in Helsinki  yesterday, Vanjoki said that very soon "there will be no need to carry  around those heavy lenses."13:23
pupniknice laptop13:23
vilinyhehe, p2 :)13:23
* SpeedEvil stabs Vanjoki.13:24
SpeedEvilIt's not about the fucking megapixels.13:24
wazdI think right after these words Anssi should fire himself13:24
wazdand hit with a bat ofcourse13:24
SpeedEvilThe '5MP' camera in the n900 is 2MP at best13:24
SpeedEviland is shit in low light.13:24
vilinyi would like to see a phone zoom in on a bird 300 meters away and get a sharp close photo :) just saying13:24
SpeedEvilI'd disagree13:24
SpeedEvilthat is a niche use13:24
pupnikhmm   not really13:25
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SpeedEvilthere are plenty of everyday uses where a not-completely-shit point and shoot camera vastly outclasses the n90013:25
vilinyi was surprised with the quality of the n900 camera, any chance software could still redeem this mush generator?13:25
WolfieSpeedEvil: like, zooming?13:25
pupniki was surprised how good the camera was13:26
Wolfieseriously though, the n900 camera is pretty nice in decent light13:26
Wolfiesnow caused a bit of purple fringing, but nothing I wouldn't forgive a phone13:26
lcukcamera is sweet indeed13:26
lcukits surprisede a lot of people13:26
SpeedEvilWolfie: yes - even a 3* optical zoom13:26
vilinyno it's not sweet, it's very bad right now - will software fix that?13:26
SpeedEvilAnd calling it a 5MP is a flat lie13:27
Wolfieit actually works under normal room lighting conditions, which can't be said of all cameras13:27
lcuk35 pages of people posting their favorite pictures13:28
lcukhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=3866013:28
achipaSpeedEvil: the original in Finnish was probably 'were releasing the N8-00 camera flagship soon' and then passed the thing through google translate13:28
lcukread the comments :)13:28
vilinyyeah i had a trust discount camera 10 years ago that struggled in indoor lightning but i hardly use that as a standard for modern cameras :/13:28
lcukviliny, ^13:28
vilinylcuk: which comments?13:28
vilinyah sorry, yes will do13:28
wazdlcuk: http://thecrayonbox.org/files/pictures/20091219_005.jpg13:28
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pupnikit is nice everyone has an opinion.  one fact is: the camera on n900 is better than the camera on n810.  :)13:28
Wolfieviliny: my wife's not-all-too-old ixus can't take a sharp picture inside without flash13:28
wazdlcuk: this can be good only for web thumbnail13:29
SpeedEvilWolfie: yes - it's good for a phone cam13:29
pupnikviliny modern cameras the size of a QUARTER13:29
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vilinylcuk: those are some seriously nice pictures - doesn't reflect my experiences so far though... will have to try it some more :) still getting through all the other stuff you can do on the n900 :]13:31
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wazdalmost nobody shows their pictures fullsized13:31
lcukviliny, do you have any examples of how its gone wrong13:31
wazdcause they look noisy and stuff13:31
N900evilThe optical res is 2mp or so13:32
lcukwazd almost nobody shows pictures fullsized anywhere13:32
vilinylcuk: yes, i have a bunch of bad quality photos - have you not experienced this at all?13:32
N900evilmore is a lie13:32
wazdlcuk: you're very wrong13:32
lcukviliny, on the day i got a usable outside capable n900 i took some shots inside a dark club13:32
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lcukand i was genuinely surprised - sure its not photophile quality but ive never had a phone camera that worked as well ever13:33
wazdI mean, my D70 is 6MPix and n900 is 5, - don't think you'd like to complare the quality even with shitty kit lenses13:33
vilinylcuk: i had a n95 before and that thing did better pictures imho13:33
lcukyour d70 is a dedicated camera13:33
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lcukdoes it make calls as well as the n900?13:33
nid0I get perfectly good outdoor photos with my device, it's only in indoor situations they get noticeably grainy13:34
wazdlcuk: no, but it takes photos, not thumbnails :)13:34
wazdlcuk: that can be printed on a larger-than-a-post-card format :)13:34
N900evilcomparing to a large cam is bullshit.13:35
N900evilbut so is saying 'nobody needs a large cam' is also13:35
wazdand if you're seeing that beauty http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8412&d=1269575937 without having proper cam - you're a loser :)13:35
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wazdhttp://img13.imageshack.us/i/officeview1.jpg/ - this is actually nice, but still too noisy for daylight conditions13:37
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lcukwazd is that space pic taken with n900?13:37
lcukif so, how was gps locking?13:37
wazdlcuk: I guess so13:37
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wazdlcuk: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=582609&postcount=31113:38
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asjthat's a great shot of surfers13:39
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N900evilanyone else has camera not takw pics as it wanted gps lock?13:41
asjno13:41
TigerTaelNOpe13:41
N900eviloddly I was gps logging with recordr widget at the time13:42
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lcukwazd i guess the experience of the camera is down to perspective and expectations13:46
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TigerTaelI am fairly happy with the picture quality in normal lighting...13:49
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TigerTaelAnd the video recording seemed pretty smooth at a decent resolution, although I would've expected the ability to re-focus...13:50
MiXu-Talking about Vanjoki saying DSLRs will be unnecessary? :)13:51
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MiXu-And the 50Mpix thing? :)13:51
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asjdslr's aren't about pixel density but rather sensor size13:52
lcukasj, yeah its also the reason why hubble manages to pull off amazing photos yet is only 1mpix13:52
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MiXu-I came to think about why it would make a difference if you had a 50Mpix sensor in a mobile phone, and came to the conclusion that you'd have to have some serious image processing. If you take that 50MPix of raw data and create an 8MPix image out of it, you might actually be able to take a huge leap in the picture quality.13:53
asjlcuk: well, light gathering kinda helps there :)13:54
lcukyes but then noise in the individual pels would be the problem13:54
Surfawho knows, maybe at some point in the future we get rid of huge objectives13:54
MiXu-But if you get 50MPix JPEGs out of the camera then it's totally pointless.13:54
Surfai don't think anyone loves the size of them :)13:54
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MiXu-Surfa: Let's hope so.13:54
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Surfathat's pretty much we can do at this point :)13:55
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TigerTael*Sigh* just got a picture which is totally green, haha...13:58
MiXu-I do see not needing consumer compact cameras in the future. But DSLRs... I'm sceptical :)13:59
vilinycamera power!13:59
hrwhttp://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/04/21/maemo5-calendar-is-it-cruel-joke/13:59
TigerTaelMiXu-, I agree...13:59
TigerTaelI don't see myself attaching a telephoto lense to my N120014:00
noobmonk3y_Workmeh - 3 repo's giving me odd errors today :|14:00
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jacekowskijust port sunbird to it14:01
MiXu-Let's hope this is one of those moments that Vanjoki can remember in 5-10 years and say "They all thought I was crazy, but we showed them" =)14:01
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pupnikMiXu-: you described supersampling and filtering14:05
pupnikit can reduce some forms of noise14:05
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fralsnoobmonk3y_Work: its because you are odd, its communicating on your terms!14:10
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smharanybody double boot maemo and meego on N900?14:16
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noobmonk3y_Workfrals - very true!14:17
X-Fadesmhar: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM#Installing_MeeGo_on_N90014:22
SpeedEvilMiXu-: there are serious technical problems.14:23
SpeedEvilMiXu-: For example. A theoretically noiseless sensor of the dimensions of the n900 sensor would still only have a resolution of ~2mp - due to the size of the lens.14:24
SpeedEvilMiXu-: you can't easily increase the size of the lens without making the camera thicker, and hence the phone, or making it more awkward to mount14:24
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SpeedEvilTo get a 'real' 8mp image say - you need at least 8mm lens diameter. This means that you need the optical centre of the lens to be 8mm away from your image sensor to get a 60 degree field of view. This probably means a total optical package of ~11mm or so thickness. then you need a protective glass on top of that, and a PCB and case under it.14:27
SpeedEvil(though you may be able to remove the PCB through trickery)14:27
MiXu-I see :)14:27
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SpeedEvil(neglecting optical interferometry, which I'd be surprised to see come into play in my lifetime)14:27
MiXu-I was just saying that they _must_ have some solution in mind to make such bold claims. :)14:27
SpeedEvilsure.14:28
Stskeepsi wouldn't want to be the guy who is on the receiving end of the guy saying 'yes, i just made a claim in public - now make it happen'14:28
SpeedEvilYou can get not-too-shabby improvements in dark performance by various means14:29
MiXu-I wouldn't either :D14:29
SpeedEviland you can probably double the lens size on the n900 camera without impacting the design by doing stuff that would not affect the n900 size.14:29
SpeedEvil(put a hole in the PCB, place the cam flush with the other edge, rework the shutter to be a bit thinner)14:30
MiXu-N900 is 18mm thick. If it was designed a bit differently, I bet you could fit the camera you described in there.14:30
* MohammadAG drills a hole in the back cover and assembles a 50mW laser14:30
SpeedEvilYou can also cheat14:30
SpeedEvilFolded optical paths14:31
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: bah, 50mW are lame XP14:31
SpeedEvilImagine say - the camera lens was where the speaker grill was.14:31
SpeedEvilit can now be (comparatively) huge14:31
* MohammadAG takes it out and puts a 50MW laser14:31
nid0nah, thats where the pico projector needs to be14:31
MohammadAG:)14:31
MiXu-Remember N93? :)14:31
* DocScrutinizer starts shooting holes into platic bags with his 150mW green laser14:32
TigerTaelMiXu-, ;/14:32
SpeedEvilnid0: camera on one side, projector on the other = invisible n900!14:32
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I really want a laser lol14:32
MiXu-SpeedEvil: lol14:32
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, or lcd on one side, cam one the other, and it becomes cloaked14:32
vilinyhow did we ever manage to put holes on plastic bags before consumer level hobby lasers :P14:33
MiXu-MohammadAG: That sounds familiar. Isn't N900 like that? ;)14:33
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lcukcould you switch out the IR led for a laser on the n90014:33
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: blame OM for not building my GTA04 concept - laser included ;-P14:33
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MiXu-lcuk: that would be cool :)14:34
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lcuktho putting a water tank and a bonsai shark inside the frame would be a bit tough14:35
SpeedEviloh - neat14:35
SpeedEvilxkcd - thunderdome14:35
nid0speaking of xkcd + lazorz14:35
nid0http://www.xkcd.com/729/14:35
lcukSpeedEvil, magic smoke vail is class14:36
SpeedEvillcuk: I love the movie reference.14:36
SpeedEvil(in the middle)14:36
pupnikkitteh dreams http://xckd.com/729/14:37
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vilinyso 5mw is the most you can use without a license in the us eh?14:39
vilinyim not a laser hobbyist and i know nothing about them14:40
mecewot? Thunderdome? Where? How?14:40
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SpeedEvilmece: do you know what a diode does?14:41
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meceyes.14:42
meceaaahaha!14:42
meceawesome!14:42
meceMissed it. I thought of gladiators, since it's an amphitheatre.14:43
vilinyi completely lost the thread here14:44
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vilinyshark tanks, lasers, diodes and gladiators14:44
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nid0diodes and gladiators, along with magic smoke, refer to http://www.xkcd.com/730/14:45
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meceviliny, think diodes and what these people are saying: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmRAiUPdRjk14:48
mece:D14:48
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* MohammadAG thought it was too quiet to be #maemo 14:50
MohammadAGturns out my N900 switched connections14:50
* noobmonk3y_Work w00000t's! - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=62088614:51
* MohammadAG facepalms and downloads the app14:52
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: replacing power IR-LED by a laser module is perfectly feasible iirc14:52
* noobmonk3y_Work lol's14:53
MohammadAGindeed14:53
lcukDocScrutinizer, what will the sharks feed on?14:53
MohammadAGlaser beams?14:53
noobmonk3y_WorkDocScrutinizer: you could rebuild the N900 to make it look and feel like an iphone too.......... *facepalm*14:53
lcukthe laser unit is situated on sharks head14:53
MohammadAGlcuk, attach a mirror14:53
lcuksince lasers cannot bend we would need to add a vanity mirror addon to feed the sharks14:53
DocScrutinizernoobmonk3y_Work: *me* not14:54
noobmonk3y_Worklol14:54
lcuknoobmonk3y_Work, for comments like that you will be banished :p14:54
DocScrutinizersorry, I thought you'd be honestly interested in long distance IR control14:55
noobmonk3y_Worklcuk: banished to #meego? lol - is that the new dungeon? ;)14:55
mecenoobmonk3y_Work, what's with the woot?14:55
lcuknoobmonk3y_Work, worse.14:55
* noobmonk3y_Work just likes w0000ting14:55
TigerTaelI'm going to make the dancing monkey michael jackson look-alike app!14:55
* noobmonk3y_Work grins - thats the spirit!14:55
meceoh right..14:56
meceyou misspelled realize.14:56
mece:P14:56
mecedoh14:56
meceno you didn't14:56
mecesorry14:56
meceyes you did!14:57
meceahaa!14:57
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X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Do you know if the IR range limit is caused by low power led or a bad lens?14:57
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: I don't think thre's any lens on the aperture. Th eLED looks quite beefy. Probably carrier freq mismatch14:58
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X-FadeYeah, or the lens is actually filtering too much :)14:59
DocScrutinizerthat'd be an epic fail14:59
X-FadeWould be good to test without it ;)14:59
DocScrutinizerwill do eventually maybe15:00
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meceanyone here play sauerbraten?15:00
DocScrutinizer*hungry*15:00
Funnyfaceis it just me, or is the N900 limited to 1Mbit as a USB modem?15:01
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DocScrutinizerthat has to be 'just you'15:01
Funnyfacewhen I use speedtest.net I only get 1/1Mbit from the test, while when I am using joikuspot I can achieve 1.5Mbit++ on good days15:02
Funnyfacealso, when I check the reported speed of the modem, it says "1Mbit".. :\15:02
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Surfaand what are you expecting?15:03
fralslol my labpartner is awesome15:03
Funnyfaceabout that15:03
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Surfahow fast is your connection? happens it to be 1Mbit?15:04
fralsim like "check row 210 where its defined" and he opens up the source code in notepad instead of the IDE we were forced to install to do this assignment15:04
frals"sec just gonna count the rows"15:04
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Funnyfacelike I said I can get 1.5Mbit or so on a good day, but as a USB modem it seems to be capped at 1Mbit15:05
Surfayes, and what are you expecting to get?15:05
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StskeepsFunnyface: might be a usb1.0 port? :P15:05
libbenhttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8697 anyone got a workaround on that bug?15:05
povbotBug 8697: Birthdays of synchronized contacs (from gmail) are incorrect15:05
Funnyfacehehe, nah, shouldn't be :P15:06
StskeepsFunnyface: try to avoid having both usb and device internet on at same time15:06
Stskeepsi had difficulties with that15:06
Funnyfaceanyway if I open the task manager in windows, then select the Network tab, it lists the modem as "1Mbit"15:06
* DocScrutinizer waves15:06
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* MohammadAG thinks the menu in Maemo 5 isn't sensible/smart15:10
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TomaszDis there a good reason why bluemaemo doesn't use the physical keyboard of the n900, but only the horribly designed on-screen one?15:10
MohammadAGask VDVsx when he joins15:11
zashwhat?15:11
zashit doesn't?15:11
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TomaszDit doesn't15:11
TomaszDand the onscreen one is next to useless15:12
zashI was under the impression that it would use the keyboard15:12
zashTomaszD: what mode are you using?15:12
TomaszDI guess that would make too much sense15:12
TomaszDkeyboard mode? This whole app only looks good, but once you try using it... aargh :(15:13
MohammadAGit's not useless, it's just not very easy to get used to15:14
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TomaszDoh come on, I don't need excuses, try typing a few sentences with it, it's like it was never tested by people who use full stops and commas15:14
TomaszDnot to mention no indication of whether its in caps mode, it looks as though it's always caps15:15
X-FadeTomaszD: It is a hobby project, there is a reason why it is not in Extras.15:16
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TomaszDX-Fade, I do understand it, but it looks like a lot of effort has gone into making it look good, but not work good15:16
zashTomaszD: have you tried pulling out and usingthe keyboard in mouse mode?15:16
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TomaszDno15:18
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hrw"N900 its like a car before the invention of wheels…"15:20
hrwlove it15:20
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TigerTaelhaha15:21
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florian:-)15:21
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TomaszDhrw, are you happy with your purchase of the n900?15:23
hrwTomaszD: maybe not happy but I like it15:23
TigerTaelhrw, good call.15:23
TomaszDhrw, so you're not happy with a likeable product?15:23
TigerTael'Happy' is too ambiguous a term...15:24
koala_manwhat did you have before?15:24
TomaszDhappy, content, pleased15:24
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TigerTaelWell then, I'm not content with it either...15:24
Surfaeasy15:25
TigerTaelI am find using it from day to day, it's nice to use.15:25
hrwkoala_man: pda: palm m105, clie sj30, zaurus sl-5500/c760 + 5600/6000L/3000. phones: ericsson a2618s, alcatel ot501, nokia 6310i, sony ericsson k750i, nokia e66. tablets: nokia 770, nokia n81015:25
Surfado you think that phone is worth paying whatever you have paid for it?15:25
zashTomaszD: what happens if you go into mouse mode and use the physical keyboard15:25
TomaszDthere is no phone more expensive than the n900 so switching to another one is a piece of cake15:25
Surfai think that could be definition of happy in this case?15:25
hrwSurfa: I paid 250€ and that was acceptable. would not pay full 600€ price15:25
TigerTaelSurfa, I would say yes, but I love open/linux OS'. ;P15:25
StskeepsTomaszD: you're forgetting golden plated n900 ;p15:26
TomaszDzash, not sure yet, I'm trying to boot UNE on the joggler, having problems15:26
koala_manI would have been ecstatic to replace 14 devices with one15:26
Surfahrw, probably no one has paid full 600 :)15:26
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TigerTaellolololol15:26
Surfamaybe first buyers..15:26
TigerTaelSorry, koala_man, good call.15:26
Arkenoiwell, n900 is the the first communicator since 1998 that i really like. The first one was good just because the idea was new, but all future implementation sucked until now.15:27
hrwSurfa: for me 250€ was ~max acceptable price.15:27
hrwArkenoi: s60 ones had working PIM...15:27
TigerTaelhrw, did you get a new one for that price?15:27
hrwArkenoi: n900 lacks15:27
hrw~ddp15:27
infobotit has been said that ddp is the Debian Documentation Project, at http://www.debian.org/~elphick/ddp/ but also Datagram Delivery Protocol, using in providing AppleTalk services, also Device Discount Program by Nokia15:27
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hrwTigerTael: ddp - last part of definition15:27
Surfawell, i must admit that I preferably wouldn't pay one euro for most of the phones15:27
Surfaand most of the phones aren't worth 50eur15:28
Arkenoihrw: there are zillion other reasons why s60 sucks. and PIM sucks there as well, it just sucks a bit less. actually the only PIM that did not suck was Agendus on PalmOS15:28
Surfaor actually there is no phone that I would myself pay more than 50eur15:28
hrwArkenoi: agendus... I would pay 60$ for maemo5 version right after announcement15:28
E0xmorning ppl15:28
Arkenoihrw: i would as well15:29
TigerTaelhrw, aha.15:29
hrwArkenoi: there is maemo5 pim, normal pim and agendus pim15:29
hrwin other words: crap, normal, premium15:29
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Arkenois60 was optimized for numeric keypads and small screens, so it sucked on qwerty devices big time, it even lacked keyboard shortcuts from s8015:30
E0xgtalk from the windows pc where at work can connect trought the proxy fine15:31
E0xbut the gtalk account from my n900 can't15:31
MiXu-S60 sucked no matter how you look at it.15:31
DocScrutinizer-8I paid >600EUR, incl shipping15:32
MiXu-I think I'll end up paying 480EUR15:32
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MiXu-It's a 2 year deal 20e/month15:32
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* Arkenoi paid $62015:34
mikki-kuni paid 530€15:34
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Arkenoiand i later discovered it is a bit too much, there are offers for $500-, dunno if those are for real though15:35
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hrwTomaszD: so back to your question. n900 nie czyni mnie szczęśliwym ale lubię ten telefon mimo jego wad.15:36
crashanddiehrw: english please15:36
hrwTomaszD: and this does not stop me from complaining a lot. most of my karma points are because of my complains15:36
TomaszDso complaining makes you more karma, which makes you happy15:37
TomaszD:)15:37
Stskeepsi should probably be worried i understood parts of that sentence15:37
hrwcrashanddie: '< hrw> TomaszD: maybe not happy but I like it' more described in Polish directly15:37
hrwTomaszD: I do not care about maemo.org karma15:37
hrwTomaszD: I just got n900 discount because of karma - and then I checked what it is at all and how I got enough points15:38
TomaszDhe said that the n900 doesn't make him happy, but he likes the phone despite its shortcomings15:38
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hrwright15:38
crashanddiewiem zo to bil polski15:38
TomaszDlol15:39
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d14lool15:39
crashanddiewhy the laughs? Did I say it wrong?15:39
TomaszDyes...15:39
hrwcrashanddie: quite good said for non-Polish15:40
d14:)15:40
crashanddiethanks :)15:40
d14:)15:40
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d14crashanddie: when you learn?15:41
crashanddienever15:41
crashanddieI just spent a bit of time with polish friends15:41
hrwcrashanddie: even in .au you can find Polish speaking people15:41
d14:)15:42
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crashanddieI don't understand polish15:44
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crashanddieAnd I won't stay here long enough anyway15:44
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DocScrutinizer-8polish taking over and messing up everywhere ;-P Just yesterday saw a TV docu about WW2 where polish pilots ruined radio discipline of RAF15:46
hrwDocScrutinizer-8: and raf was fine with it cause without them there would be no raf?15:47
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DocScrutinizer-8yep15:48
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer-8: they forgot to mention that polish division 303 shot the most german aircrafts15:48
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer-8: and they joined 2 months later15:48
DocScrutinizer-8no, they mentioned it15:49
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DocScrutinizer-8nah, I'm not sure if you're talking bout polish devision of RAF now...15:50
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hrwheh... one blog post and one n900 user less15:56
hrwhttp://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/04/21/maemo5-calendar-is-it-cruel-joke/#comment-2818015:56
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ShapeshifterIs it possible to use downloaded maps with maep? I searched all around but can't find anything15:57
StskeepsShapeshifter: when you go to an area it caches it15:58
hrwbtw - someone know linux calendar app other then evolution, dates, korganizer, gpe calendar, kdepim/pi?15:58
Arkenoiwell, maemo calendar is acceptable as google calendar client ;-)15:58
hrwArkenoi: *if* you use google calendar15:59
Arkenoii do15:59
ShapeshifterStskeeps: well yeah, but isn't it possible to just use a downloaded map? Like, I can download the whole of europe of open streetmaps in like 4gb and then wouldn't need to download any on the fly anymore15:59
Stskeepsnoone made a tool for it yet16:00
Arkenoibut on s60 my "main" calendar was on device and google was in sync just in case as alternative way to access it16:00
Arkenoithe situation reversed with n90016:00
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rmrfchikArkenoi: somewhat usable16:01
rmrfchikI do use google calendar with atendee16:02
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rmrfchikand complex repeat pattern16:02
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rmrfchikall of it is not supported in n900.16:02
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rmrfchikIt shows "Birthday" but do not allow to call corresponding account. Even don't allow to open it16:03
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hrwwelcome in 1995 rmrfchik16:05
rmrfchikyeah16:05
rmrfchiksad, sad panda16:05
hrwpalmpilot from 1998 had better calendar16:05
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hrwwith 128KB ram16:05
rmrfchikindeed. I remeber by m505/T3... damn, it was brilliant16:05
hrwrmrfchik: I was considering buying palmos5 device during last 2 years just for pim16:06
hrwgarnet vm on n810/n900 is not the same16:06
rmrfchiki really did use all those ToDo, Memos, Calendars. Not with modern devices, because they can't handle PIM16:06
rmrfchikbunch of separated applications with stupid questions "Open?" "Save?"16:07
Arkenoistock palmOS pim was quite basic16:07
lcukhrw, had the palmpilot calendar been open source we might have been able to use it16:07
Arkenoiagendus was great16:07
hrwArkenoi: was basic but also easy to use + quick16:08
rmrfchikArkenoi: and agendus used the same DB for calendar, so you can still use it16:08
hrwlcuk: do not think so16:08
rmrfchikhrw: it was16:08
rmrfchikhrw: SDK contains almost all aplications in source, afair16:08
Arkenoihrw: i did not like it at all, nothing exceptional if compared to other PDAs of that time16:08
hrwrmrfchik: sure, but palmos structures etc16:09
rmrfchikhrw: huh? database structure was open as hell ;)16:10
crashanddiegents, does the XMPP SMS API still work?16:10
hrwrmrfchik: I mean - too many changes to make for source - probably faster to write from scratch16:11
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rmrfchikI wonder, when access-linux will stop to shop Garnet VM emulator?16:12
rmrfchiks/shop/ship16:12
rmrfchikseems like all their betas just the same software with moved EOL date16:12
crashanddieGAN900: awake?16:12
DocScrutinizer-8ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US16:13
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hrwrmrfchik: and no n900 version16:15
rmrfchikhrw: I run latest beta on n900. it works16:15
X-FadeStskeeps: Because Doc is playing.16:15
hrwrmrfchik: I do same16:16
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hrwrmrfchik: but display should be 180° reversed16:16
rmrfchikit is sad, that I can't control rotation of garnet16:16
rmrfchiklol ;)16:16
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rmrfchikcrazy japs16:16
marcusmollerHeya there.16:16
marcusmollerAnybody can guide me to a font installation guide for the n900? (:16:16
marcusmollerGoogle'd a lot, but most of them were by replacing the nokia ones.16:17
hrwmarcusmoller: just copy to /usr/share/fonts or ~/.fonts/ and 'fc-cache -av'16:17
marcusmollerhrw: Where do you suggest I'd back it up then?16:17
* rmrfchik uses stock fonts + droid16:17
hrwmarcusmoller: you asked for installation not replacing16:17
rmrfchikdroid fonts ara avail from packages16:17
marcusmollerhrw: Aha. You're right, I didn't read it all ;).16:18
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marcusmollerhrw: But how would I use them then?16:18
hrwthats up to you16:18
hrwI instaled only terminus fonts for terminal to make it usable16:19
andrewfblackJust learned something neat I didn't know MS Excel would open and save ods format16:19
* Arkenoi uses droid sans mono for terminal16:20
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rmrfchikI wonder, can I change default shell to bash in /etc/passwd for user?16:20
adeusI have16:21
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DocScrutinizer-8rmrfchik: yes16:21
hrwrmrfchik: 'root' then 'chsh user' - more safe16:21
DocScrutinizer-8but you might encounter problems on boot16:21
crashanddiewho here is in the US?16:22
DocScrutinizer-8not quite clear yet if it's safe for user16:22
rmrfchikDocScrutinizer-8: errr.. that's what i'm asking ;)16:22
crashanddiec'mon you yanks, you know you want to tell me you're there16:22
rmrfchik"can I eat those berries?" "yes..... but you will die"16:22
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DocScrutinizer-8anyway you need bash or whatever in \etc/shells then16:22
hrwDocScrutinizer-8: my device did not broke after that16:23
DocScrutinizer-8hrw16:23
DocScrutinizer-8hrw: both passwd and shells?16:23
rmrfchikls: /etc/shells: No such file or directory16:24
sECuREnah16:24
DocScrutinizer-8i.e. you actually had bash on user login?16:24
sECuREyou only need to modify /etc/passwd16:24
DocScrutinizer-8sECuRE: I heard contrary16:24
hrwDocScrutinizer-8: I used chsh only and user@n900 has bash in xterm16:24
sECuREi just did that this morning, it works16:25
DocScrutinizer-8hmm. lots of bogus reports around it seems. Thanks for a clear one :-)16:25
sECuREnp16:26
adeusI edited it with vi16:26
adeusmade a typo16:26
adeussaved16:26
adeusand found out undo is not supported16:26
sECuREheh, yes, busybox vi really sucks16:26
hrwsECuRE: it does not suxx. it is just limited16:26
DocScrutinizer-8busybox * SUCKS16:26
sECuREyes, all cool features are left out. i call that sucking ;)16:27
hrwI adore busybox vi on my devices16:27
hrwand prefer busybox vi over vim when work on serial console16:27
hrwbusybox/vi always uses whole screen. vim checks $COLUMNS $LINES and assumes 80x2416:27
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sECuREi never had that problem with vim, but i don’t use it much via serial console16:28
hrwwhich suxx in 200x80 terminals16:28
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rmrfchiksomething suxx when author lame, but busybox limited intentionally16:29
DocScrutinizer-8anyway bash is a halfassed approach without coreutils. And those are confirmed to break boot aka initscripts - FAIL :-(16:29
rmrfchikmoreover, it is bash who suxx when you see from zsh side16:30
TreibholzDocScrutinizer-8: you may install gnu-coreutils16:30
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DocScrutinizer-8of initscripts though16:30
DocScrutinizer-8Treibholz: yoh16:30
sECuREDocScrutinizer-8: initscripts do not use bash just because you change your login shell16:30
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DocScrutinizer-8sECuRE: yes, but guys changed system shell to bash16:31
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sECuREwhy would you do that?16:31
DocScrutinizer-8dunno... maybe to get rid of friggin messybox?16:31
sECuREi don’t see a point in that16:31
sECuREfor interactive use a more featureful shell might be useful, but why change a running system without obvious benefits?16:32
DocScrutinizer-8why use messyboxisms in initscripts first instance?16:32
sECuREbecause it’s small and available? *shrug* not my decision, but it seems to work fine so far16:33
DocScrutinizer-8sECuRE: you missed the point16:33
DocScrutinizer-8either messybox is POSIX then bash should work as well. Or it's not and then what other reason do you need to avoid it all together16:34
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sECuREnot sure if busybox is posix. chances are the initscripts are not, which is relatively likely16:35
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sECuREOTOH, if they come directly from debian, they are very likely posix16:35
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sECuREas debian switched to dash as default shell and had a mass-bugfiling against packages with bashisms in their initscripts a while ago16:35
DocScrutinizer-8see, each and every sane system works with posix conformant shell and coreutils. Maemo doesn't16:36
DocScrutinizer-8I'd call that a bug in its own16:36
sECuREyep, if you want to ensure that, i’d recommend changing /bin/sh to dash and see what breaks ;)16:36
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DocScrutinizer-8fsck, I don't need to do such nonsense. Reports of coreutils breaking init cause scripts use busyboxisms are legend16:37
DocScrutinizer-8so does basj or anything but busybox for sys-shell16:38
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rmrfchikguys, why you think initscripts are depends on _user_ shell>?16:39
sECuREwe don’t16:39
rmrfchikoh, good16:39
sECuREsee 15:3116:39
sECuREerr, 8 minutes ago, whatever time zone you are in16:39
DocScrutinizer-8and you can't tell me there's a sane rationale to use special borked busyboxisms in init, just because busybox is available16:39
rmrfchik+2 ;)16:39
sECuREDocScrutinizer-8: nope, of course that’s not rational16:40
DocScrutinizer-8so that's a bug in maemo initscripts16:40
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rmrfchikdebian on PC didn't use bash or zsh or busybox for initscripts. it this is not a question of compatibility16:43
rmrfchikyes, they do care about compatibility, but the main reason is speed and efficiency16:43
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DocScrutinizer-8I'm perfectly ok to replace any sane posix shell by busybox *after* you've checked your initscripts are working in a most general conformant way16:44
rmrfchikI can believe that busybox is much faster in initscripts than bash, just because it smaller16:45
* MohammadAG grumbles16:45
DocScrutinizer-8no problem, I bet it's faster. But busybox is NOT THAT bad you could not write compatible scripts16:46
hrwrmrfchik: ash (busybox sh), dash, bash - thats order of speed for initscripts16:46
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DocScrutinizer-8sure. busybox is a multicall executable that never needs to load further program text16:47
DocScrutinizer-8for sure it's magnitudes faster16:48
MohammadAGdoes anyone know how to use awk?16:49
DocScrutinizer-8nevertheless it is (or should be) a dropin replacement16:49
mgedminI bet google does16:49
MohammadAGmgedmin, I didn't know that...16:49
DocScrutinizer-8nah, not even google X016:49
mgedminMohammadAG, no charge16:49
DocScrutinizer-8XP16:49
supertrampwhat linux application is most suitable for meamo calendar sync?16:49
MohammadAGmgedmin, now that's what open source is all about! :P16:50
DocScrutinizer-8MohammadAG: no, that's Creative Commons16:50
* RST38h moos16:50
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* DocScrutinizer-8 queeks16:51
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* MohammadAG googles Creative Comments16:51
MohammadAGcommon*16:51
MohammadAGs*16:51
DocScrutinizer-8MohammadAG: CC probably is about giving away advice for free :-P16:52
rmrfchikMohammadAG: I use awk16:52
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rmrfchikMohammadAG: I use awk16:54
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer-8, does CC involve crashing N900s? :P16:55
MohammadAGrmrfchik, I'll check google first, might as well read about awk, thanks anyways16:55
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KhertanEasy personalization for less than the price of a coffee.17:15
KhertanPrismic Wallpaper Manager - Only $3.7517:15
Khertanouch coffeee are high priced in dollars17:15
Khertan:)17:15
KhertanHi everyone17:15
lcukKhertan, spamming again?17:15
Khertanhum ... why again ?17:16
lcukyou take things too seriously :p17:17
Khertani mean why again ?17:17
Khertanbecause ... i'm just spamming as usual17:17
Khertan:)17:17
Khertanhum ... maybe it s just one of the reason of iphone OS 1 didn't have the copy / paste17:18
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Khertanjust to avoid spamming on irc :)17:18
* RST38h thinks the Tentacled One should get medieval on theme makers spamming Extras with dozens of their themes, placed into random categories17:19
Khertan;)17:20
nid0dozens of themes would be all well and good, if only there was a themese category :(17:20
KhertanHum ... i see that there still not interesting post on tmo17:20
Khertannid0, and a preview screenshot :)17:21
Khertanin ham17:21
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nid0indeed17:21
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Khertanlike ubuntu did it in them "pseudo" package manager17:21
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Khertansomeone can remember me where ham store his preferences priority on repository and which repository to ignore17:24
Khertan?17:24
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fralslcuk: did you keep fmms installed on any of your devices?17:28
fralslcuk: if so, did you notice any extra battery drain? :P17:28
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lcukfrals, my battery rarely drains unexpectedly and yes ive got it installed on my image17:30
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SpeedEvilfrals: checked right now - short term average is about 15mA - which is about right17:33
SpeedEvilfrals: for before fmms17:33
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fralsSpeedEvil, lcuk: cheers17:33
SpeedEviland it's installed.17:33
SpeedEvilSo, at least here, it's not having a noticable impact when you never use it17:33
SpeedEvilIs there any daemon that it runs?17:34
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* noobmonk3y_Work left liqflow running for 3 hours this morning, battery was not a happy bunny........17:34
fralsfmmsd.py is started whenever an MMS is received and then stays17:34
SpeedEvilk17:34
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lcuknoobmonk3y_Work, yes its quite an intensive task17:35
frals/opt/fmms/fmmsd.py17:35
SpeedEvilfrals: should starting from the commandline do the same as mms17:35
lcukthing is, i cant find a way to detect if the video out is connected17:35
lcukso i cant just blank on main screen blank17:35
fralsSpeedEvil: yeah it does the same thing17:35
noobmonk3y_Workfrals - the naming convention idea, it's genius - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=62104517:35
ech0HTPCmornin everyone17:35
fralsas the dbus-service command just launches the application that way17:35
lcuknoobmonk3y_Work, can i ask where you got the samples for your fart app17:38
frals:D17:38
lcukthis is one time i am pleased the nasal interface was left off the n90017:38
noobmonk3y_Worknot got em yet!17:38
noobmonk3y_Worklol17:38
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lcukperhaps *and i hate myself for suggesting this* you should begin a thread and see if you can have collarative fartathon17:39
lcukfrals, does fmms have the potential to support sound clips?17:40
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Khertanwith videos !!!!17:40
Khertan:)17:40
Khertangurk17:40
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lcukif you get fart notes for the entire musical scale - we could make a midi interface for it17:41
SpeedEvilfrals: Ok - initial results are that with the daemon running, it uses lots more power. Checking that this isn't false17:41
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fralslcuk: it already does, kinda.. it doesnt recode shit but it attaches fine ;)17:42
lcukgood :)17:42
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lcukrecoding shit would be messy17:42
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fralsSpeedEvil: ta, will take a look what might be the problem then17:43
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SpeedEvilfrals: I'm unsure - it's not doing it reliably - I need to finish off my battery testing framework17:46
SpeedEviloh17:46
SpeedEvilignore17:46
SpeedEvilit made the LED flash I think17:46
SpeedEvilthat'll do it17:46
fralsuh, it should only flash the LED if you receive an MMS..17:47
SpeedEvilhmm17:47
lcukSpeedEvil, which app do you use for investigating17:47
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SpeedEvillcuk: the bq* script from ShadowJK17:48
lcukahh so its not graphical yet17:48
SpeedEvilno17:48
lcukwell, you are the api to detecting power usage atm :D17:48
lcukSpeedEvil, do you stop regular apps17:48
SpeedEvilI have a broken trivial thing that I haven't finished off - which starts and stops stuff 20 times over a few minutes, and measures start and stop power17:49
lcukor do you get baseline, then add on the new app17:49
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SpeedEvilI need to fix it - I was just doing that manually17:49
lcukyeah different apps etc have different methods of startup17:49
SpeedEvilit was probably xchat flashed it, and I diddn't kill the notification17:49
SpeedEvilthat's an issue which makes it harder yes - for commandline it's easy17:49
SpeedEvilafk17:49
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ShadowJKI'll probably finish it and then rewrite it in proper C before bothering with graphical fluff.17:56
ShadowJKLong term plan is bme replacement, not battery-eye/batterygraph replacement ;)17:57
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DocScrutinizer-8(frals> fmmsd.py is started whenever an MMS is received and then stays) isn't that a quite wrong concept?17:58
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ShadowJKwhat's it doing to cause battery drain? polling instead of sleeping?17:59
DocScrutinizer-8esp if it's a power hog17:59
DocScrutinizer-8yeah, sounds nasty odd18:00
lcukShadowJK, if the results are parsable you dont need to make the visuals18:00
fralsit should be sleeping18:00
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DocScrutinizer-8so top is your friend then, and strace :-P18:01
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ShadowJKlcuk, yeah they're parseable, I parse it myself with a second script ;)18:01
lcuk:)18:01
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer-8, and powertop18:02
johnsqHi18:02
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DocScrutinizer-8ShadowJK: how do you read out 27200? Could you do same for 24150 (maybe sigstop bme for 500ms)? and then send output (preferrably commented like 'charger plugged') to me18:05
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DocScrutinizer-8ShadowJK: apropos - checked the /dev/I2C-* and if they are useful by any means?18:06
ShadowJKYes I could do the same with bq2415018:07
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hurbuhi18:07
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ShadowJKand the i2cget helper executable is accessing /dev/i2c-218:07
DocScrutinizer-8ShadowJK: aah (helper). (do) a lil RE for BME ;-D18:08
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hurbui'm trying to connect to internet trught usb, and the maemo browser ask me for connection18:09
hurbubut with xterm i cant ping evrything18:09
DocScrutinizer-8ShadowJK: maybe >> interleave a 'tail /var/log/*'?18:09
hurbui *can18:09
hurbuany ideas?18:10
DocScrutinizer-8DNS?18:10
hurbuwell i have not configured the resolv.conf18:11
hurbubut i ping using the ip18:11
hurbuand it work18:11
DocScrutinizer-80ing working with URL?18:11
hurbu?18:12
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hurbuif i use wifi connection browser can connect18:12
hurbuwith put only the ip18:12
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hurbubut if i use the usb18:12
hurbubrowser don't work18:12
hurbubut i can ping everything with xterminal18:13
DocScrutinizer-8it tries to access unreachable DNServer18:13
hurbuok18:13
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DocScrutinizer-8try 'ping ct.de'18:14
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DocScrutinizer-8check in wiki how to correctly mess around with etc/resolv.conf18:15
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hurbuin this moment18:15
hurbui havent nothing in resolv.conf18:16
hurbubut i can resolve ct.de18:16
hurbuwith xterm18:16
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hurbubut if i put in the browser18:16
hurbuit ask me for a connection18:16
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DocScrutinizer-8hmm, restart browser?18:16
DocScrutinizer-8dunno18:17
DocScrutinizer-8ask timeless18:17
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hurbuok thx18:17
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: you're aware there is a bq27* module?18:18
DocScrutinizer-8heh18:18
* DocScrutinizer-8 wonders wtf that one does18:18
SpeedEvilShadowJK: though ATM it reads out only charge %, vbat, and vsense18:18
DocScrutinizer-8bah18:19
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DocScrutinizer-8and doesn't create decent sysfs nodes?18:19
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SpeedEvil./2.6.28.10power-omap1/bq27x00_battery.ko18:19
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DocScrutinizer-8I'm smoking dry here18:20
SpeedEvil /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/18:20
SpeedEvilcapacity     device       present      temp         uevent18:21
SpeedEvilcurrent_now  power        subsystem    type         voltage_now18:21
DocScrutinizer-8heh18:21
DocScrutinizer-8now we need a bq2415x.ko and correstponding nodes - bye bme18:22
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DocScrutinizer-8and of course bq27x00.ko should get a bit smarter, exporting all the interesting stuff from gauge chip18:24
SpeedEvilyeah18:24
SpeedEviland not expoerting current as microvolts18:24
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DocScrutinizer-8errr, microamps would be more sensible, yes18:25
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hurbuis so strange becouse i'm trying chromium on n900 and it work, but i think all built in maemo application dont work trought usb(in my case)18:26
DocScrutinizer-8if only we could bully someone @Nokia to look up value of shunts in BOM18:26
hrwDocScrutinizer-8, SpeedEvil: playing with battery info?18:27
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DocScrutinizer-8time for playing is over18:27
DocScrutinizer-8now it's time for productive results18:27
hurbuwell found a workaround using the ad-hoc connection(connecting to myself), and it works18:28
hurbudunno why18:28
DocScrutinizer-8like >get better capacity estimation >nuke bme closed blob annoyance and put charging straight >enable usb host 5V power18:29
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil, yeah the module doesn't interest me18:34
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hrwhttp://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2010/04/21/maemo5-calendar-is-it-cruel-joke/#comment-28194 - nice comment which makes me wonder who is Chuck ;D18:40
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: why not?18:44
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I mean - surely it's more sane to fix the existing kernel driver to export bq* information, not write your own userspace thingy that will not interoperate with other things touching the bq*18:45
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hrwyou try with maemo kernel or mainline 2.6.34-rc one?18:47
DocScrutinizer-8err.ko?!?18:47
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DocScrutinizer-8.ko sounds like kernel to me18:48
DocScrutinizer-8anyway in a hurry. bbl18:48
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DocScrutinizer-8aah, yes. your words18:49
DocScrutinizer-8got it wrong18:49
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supertrampwhy the airport touch dissapeared from ovi :(18:50
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supertrampdon't you have a deb for airport touch? :)18:50
lcuksupertramp, i dunno but tracy was shouting18:50
supertramptracy?18:51
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PhonicUKhey everyone18:55
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PhonicUKrm /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb <- wooo free space on rootfs! xD18:56
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LuciusMareHi, is there a way i can precache the maps? I am going on a holiday, and I dont feel like paying a huge internet bill, so i'd like to do it at home18:56
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MohammadAGPhonicUK, tbh I moved it to /opt18:56
hrwLuciusMare: ovi maps?18:56
LuciusMarehrw: yes18:56
PhonicUKMohammadAG, now why didn't i think of that18:56
MohammadAGseems like a better option (easier restores)18:56
hrwLuciusMare: you have ms windows available?18:56
PhonicUKyah18:56
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PhonicUKno issues with me moving it to opt and symlinking then?18:56
MohammadAGnope18:57
hrwPhonicUK: also move /var/lib/apt/lists18:57
LuciusMarewell, I do, more precisely, a friend of mine does18:57
LuciusMarewhy?18:57
MohammadAGas well as /var/lib/dpkg18:57
PhonicUKawesome, ill do that when i get home18:57
hrwLuciusMare: use Nokia Maps Loader under windows18:57
PhonicUKits so much easier to do over an SSH session xD18:57
MohammadAGPhonicUK, and /var/lib/apt18:57
MohammadAGthose folders are hefty18:57
LuciusMarehrw: have anybody tested it under wien?18:58
MohammadAGdon't moves the themes btw18:58
LuciusMare*wine18:58
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MohammadAGit borked my selecor18:58
hrwLuciusMare: no idea, I used winxppro18:58
PhonicUKthemes are used before filesystems are mounted?18:58
MohammadAGLuciusMare, highly doubt it would work18:58
MohammadAGPhonicUK, well no, you can't change your theme if you move the folder18:58
MohammadAGthe personalisation_app segfauls18:58
PhonicUKah i see18:58
MohammadAG(and coredumps)18:58
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MohammadAGsegfaults*18:59
PhonicUKcheers for that18:59
MohammadAG:)18:59
PhonicUKive got 30MB free with all the repos enabled so its not too bad18:59
MohammadAGmy slider's loose but in a nice smooth way18:59
PhonicUKwould be nice to get to 50/60MB though18:59
PhonicUKkeyboard slider?18:59
MohammadAGPhonicUK, 58 here18:59
MohammadAGyeah18:59
hrw52.5MB here18:59
MohammadAGbut I like it this way18:59
PhonicUKyah mines loosend up a bit18:59
PhonicUKgot t-mobile to refund part of my bill today ^_^19:00
MohammadAG58 with over 100 apps btw19:00
PhonicUKthey cocked up a bit when i renewed my contract :\19:00
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PhonicUKresulting in a £58 phone bill19:00
LuciusMareAND, related to my first, question, can i enable internetless mode?19:00
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LuciusMareoffline mode does not solve that, i do want gsm19:01
korhojoaLuciusMare: internetless how?19:01
PhonicUKLucius, theres an app to disable GPRS/3G while keeping GSM access19:01
korhojoaso it doesn't even ask?19:01
PhonicUKyou can also disconnect the network entirely19:01
LuciusMarePhonicUK: great, what is it's name?19:01
PhonicUKwhile still being able to make calls19:01
PhonicUK1 tick19:01
LuciusMarekorhojoa: no, so it does not download *anything*19:02
PhonicUKLuciusMare, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/3g2g-mode-selection-applet/19:02
PhonicUKalso, simply "disconnecting" the active internet connection will stop data access - that said im not sure how much i trust it not to autoconnect to something when an app requests data19:03
korhojoaLuciusMare: Uh. I just tell it not to use any connections without me allowing it = nothing gets downloaded19:03
PhonicUK"Disable Data Roaming" ^_^19:03
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LuciusMarehuh.19:04
LuciusMarePhonicUK: you are the winner, but i do not trust it :D19:04
LuciusMarethanks for the app19:04
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PhonicUKbtw LuciusMare, got the unit to hand? theres another thing you should do if you're going away19:04
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LuciusMareuh oh19:04
LuciusMarei thought...19:05
PhonicUK?19:05
LuciusMarethere is the setting - dual/3g/gsm - in the normal settings19:05
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PhonicUKno, but there is an option in the normal settings to disable roaming for data19:05
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PhonicUKif you go Settings -> Phone -> Network -> Data Roaming -> "Always Ask"19:06
LuciusMareand how does it know i am roaming?19:06
PhonicUKby your network19:06
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PhonicUKtherse also Network Mode -> GSM19:06
LuciusMareoo19:06
PhonicUKin the same section19:06
PhonicUKyou're right there is such an option19:06
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LuciusMaregreat, great19:06
PhonicUKits all in Settings -> Phone -> Networking19:06
LuciusMarethanks19:06
PhonicUK/s/networking/network19:06
PhonicUKno worries19:06
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GAN900crashanddie, am now. :P19:08
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corecode_wow, no internet connected = battery lasts forever19:12
oscillikwell, duh :p :)19:12
SpeedEvilinternet doesn't do much for my battery life19:12
SpeedEvilmuch bad19:12
SpeedEvilwell - wifi19:12
hrwSpeedEvil: over wifi...19:12
lcukcorecode_, did you know, if you turn your device off, it lasts longer than if its on19:12
SpeedEvilwith good powersave19:12
hrwmake net over 3g and battery will suck19:12
SpeedEvilas in under 10% faster discharge19:12
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corecode_yea 3g seems to be the problem19:13
hrwhave a nice rest of day19:13
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corecode_how is the radio being used differently with 3g?19:14
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LuciusMareeh, what was the name of the app to load maps?19:14
oscillik3G is a powerhog no matter what phone, it's not just the N900 that suffers bad battery life when 3G is used19:15
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dnearyamigadave about?19:15
LuciusMarePhonicUK: ?19:16
PhonicUKdunno someone else said it19:16
PhonicUK<hrw> LuciusMare: use Nokia Maps Loader under windows19:16
corecode_so is the problem running the radio in 3g mode, or actually sending packets in 3g?19:16
LuciusMarethanks19:16
corecode_i loaded the maps manually19:16
corecode_the zip files19:16
corecode_works decently19:16
* PhonicUK took the sim card out of his N97, its been running non stop for nearly a week19:17
corecode_although i think they are not covering everything19:17
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PhonicUKi wonder how long the N900 would be able to run for with the sim card removed19:17
PhonicUKi probably wouldn't even notice, since i mostly use it for skype/internet over WiFi19:17
lcukPhonicUK, could find out19:17
corecode_i have a problem with arriving calls19:18
lcuktracy barely charges hers19:18
PhonicUKif its anything like my N97, several days19:18
corecode_when i have the phone in my pocket and a call comes in19:18
PhonicUKi left its WiFi and 3G on all the time, charge lasted a little over 1 day19:18
corecode_and i pull out the phone, often i touch the screen area that make the call be rejected19:18
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corecode_anybody else have that?19:18
PhonicUKi get that19:18
corecode_ideas on how to work around it?19:18
corecode_except for grabbing the phone differently?19:19
PhonicUKput it in your pocket with the back facing outwards19:19
PhonicUKi always have the screen facing my body19:19
PhonicUKafter an accident with an iPaq 1930 where someone backed a chair out into me and broke the screen :\19:19
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corecode_yes i have it that way19:20
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PhonicUKnone here then19:20
PhonicUKi also get the annoying bug where its stuck in portrait mode after taking/making a call19:20
PhonicUKgetting it to turn back around is a matter of trial and error :\19:20
corecode_yes19:20
lcukcorecode_, put phone in pocket with screen sensor down19:20
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lcukthen when you reach in it doesnt activate until its out of pocket19:21
lcukproblem for all devices19:21
corecode_lcuk: speaker down?19:21
PhonicUKi usually do it by closing the "Call" app, putting it in portrait with the keyboard out, and starting the call app19:21
PhonicUKalmost always flips back around19:21
lcukyes19:21
corecode_i do that19:21
corecode_but my thumb is on the "reject" when it comes out of the pocket19:21
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lcukive not done it yet19:21
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* lcuk never misses a call19:22
corecode_happens to be for basically every call19:22
PhonicUKive done that once19:22
corecode_:/19:22
lcukunless im sleping19:22
PhonicUKi usually grab my phone by the sides19:22
corecode_but i grab is between screen and back19:22
corecode_not by the sides19:22
PhonicUKaah19:22
copumpkinhey, I was wondering if anyone had any experience sampling from the accelerometer on the n900 at high rates (50Hz or more)19:22
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lcukcopumpkin, sure19:22
lcukliqacceltests does it frequently19:23
lcukand onedotzero did19:23
copumpkina friend of mine said he'd done it but that it was a polling-based mechanism and it was eating up all his CPU19:23
lcukand liqflow works at 60fps19:23
copumpkinoh?19:23
PhonicUKN900 = portable seizmograph!19:23
lcukyeah19:23
lcukinstall liqflow from extras19:23
lcuk:)19:23
lcukworks nicely19:23
LuciusMarehm19:23
PhonicUKor a lie detector for people with a nervous twitch19:23
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz019:23
lcukportable drum machine19:24
copumpkinliqflow is sampling from the accelerometer at 60fps, or just drawing graphics at 60fps?19:24
PhonicUKnice19:24
lcukmultiple n900s on a table detecting drumming19:24
lcukboth19:24
copumpkinah, nice19:24
PhonicUKwhats that device with the funny mask?19:24
PhonicUKanother N900?19:24
lcukits a proto19:24
LuciusMareI started ovi maps, connected it with usb to the computer, started map loader, and it keeps blinking "Waiting for phone"19:24
PhonicUKaah19:24
lcuksays in the comments19:24
lcukwe didnt have enough lol19:24
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copumpkinlcuk: any pointers API-wise for doing that?19:24
PhonicUKwho had a prototype?19:24
lcukliqflow does other things than sitting like that19:24
lcukits very touchable19:25
lcukcopumpkin, for doing what?19:25
lcukliqflow itself or the accelerometer19:25
copumpkingetting higher sampling rates from the accelerometer and having CPU cycles left over19:25
PhonicUKi wonder if i'd get a faster response from the Qt guys by using my nokia internal email address...19:25
lcukhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Accelerometers19:25
lcuksmoothed code i use in liqbase (and liqflow) is there19:25
copumpkinoh, you made it :)19:25
copumpkinlooks very nice19:25
lcukyeah19:25
lcuk:)19:25
LuciusMareDoe anybody here use the nokia map loader with n900?19:26
corecode_does that even work?19:26
corecode_oh do we have 1.2 yet?19:26
nid0sometimes it works okay for some people19:26
nid0mostly not19:26
corecode_LuciusMare: just download the zip files and extract them19:26
LuciusMarecorecode_: what zip files?19:27
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lcuklinks to maps for different countries > http://handphone-solution.blogspot.com/2009/07/direct-download-for-ovi-maps-30-without.html19:27
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corecode_yes yes that one19:28
corecode_but it doesn't contain everything19:28
corecode_sometimes there is just a hole in the map19:28
corecode_and you need internet to fill it up19:28
PhonicUKim off home all, later19:28
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lcukcorecode_, o_O19:29
corecode_lcuk: yes, try going offline and look around the dijon area in france19:29
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lcukyou paying for tickets?19:29
lcuki wouldnt knwo what im missing otherwise19:29
corecode_no, on the map you dummy :)19:29
lcukwell i havent downloaded france19:30
corecode_ah19:30
lcukso maps will show a big hole!19:30
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corecode_well i downloaded the world[tm]19:30
lcukold gps app used to show unknown countries as water19:30
corecode_hehe19:30
lcukdownloading the world is very low resolution19:30
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lcukand will not fit on 32g19:30
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corecode_huh?19:30
lcukto download the world at street level precision would be an immense download19:31
lcukyou need to download regional maps19:31
lcukfor high resolution19:31
corecode_you mean the "entire continent" is less precise that the separate country maps?19:31
lcukno wonder its still using internet for oyu19:31
lcukyes19:31
lcukfor space reasons19:31
lcukthink like a fractal19:31
lcuklots of detail as you zoom in19:31
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corecode_sure19:31
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corecode_but the continent zip file is already 1gb19:32
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lcuksure, the continent is big!19:32
lcukthink of it like a paper map19:32
lcukget an a-z one19:32
lcukfor your town19:32
corecode_that was not clear from the description19:32
lcukand think how big the book would need to be for your country19:32
lcukthen think how big the book would need to be for your continent!19:32
corecode_alright then19:33
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corecode_downloading the rest as well19:33
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ToJa92are there any good sketching apps for the N900? Besides the default one, that is. The two features I'm looking for is being able to resize on a pixel basis, multiple undo levels and when you draw something off screen it should scroll so you can continue to draw..19:36
ToJa92three*19:36
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corecode_Xournal?19:39
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ToJa92[corecode_]: I'll have a look at it19:40
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dmj726ToJa92: How about myaint?19:40
dmj726mypaint19:41
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ToJa92I'll test em' both then19:41
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ToJa92mypaint isn't found :(19:43
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DocScrutinizer-8lcuk: (60Hz) iirc lis302 has 100 and 400s/s. At least 2 fixed values. And accel-driver usually should not poll lis302 at all, rather the best practice is to set IRQ triggers correctly (relative mode and low threshold usually) and then wait for a hw interrupt signaling any change in acceleration readings19:44
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lcukDocScrutinizer-8, it probably does19:45
lcukbut since i can read it when i need i didnt concern with that19:45
lcukas fast as possible was enough19:45
DocScrutinizer-8aah, k19:46
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corecode_lcuk: not true wrt maps19:54
corecode_lcuk: i just downloaded all regional german maps19:54
corecode_lcuk: and the big german one19:54
corecode_lcuk: extracted they have the same size19:54
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corecode_although...19:55
corecode_some files are different19:55
corecode_and the regional ones contain some files the big one doesn'19:55
corecode_t19:55
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MohammadAGseriously, why doesn't IL have maps19:58
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* DocScrutinizer-8 points to tangogps with its highly intuitive map downloader19:59
corecode_bomb threats!19:59
MohammadAGlol IL isn't that bad...19:59
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MohammadAGgot stopped by a soldier, he wanted an ID, told him I didn't have it on me, problem solved :)20:00
dmj726ToJa92: Mypaint is in another repo right now.20:01
dmj726search for mypaint on talk.maemo.org20:01
Arkenoiis there a way to tie a script to events "charger plugged in" and "charger plugged out"?20:04
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sECuREArkenoi: have you checked if there is a corresponding dbus event? i’d think so20:06
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ToJa92[dmj726]: Oh.20:07
DocScrutinizer-8Arkenoi: check 'python dbus scripting'20:07
DocScrutinizer-8Arkenoi: (it's a pkg)20:08
sECuREwhere can i get some documentation about python-alarm? like a list of all available functions?20:08
DocScrutinizer-8with gui even20:08
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sECuREor am i supposed to guess their names based on the reference documentation of libalarm?20:09
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DocScrutinizer-8sECuRE: check alarmed pkg20:09
DocScrutinizer-8sECuRE: python iirc, nice gui, and a highly usefull app on top of it20:11
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Khertan_n900Hi again20:12
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Khertan_n900Does there is some docs about qt and autorotation ?20:13
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DocScrutinizer-8Khertan_n900: nothing in wiki?20:14
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andre__Khertan_n900, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.6/maemo5-rotation.html ?20:14
DocScrutinizer-8oe on trolltech.foo20:14
Khertan_n900Thx ...20:15
DocScrutinizer-8aah, s/trolltech/nokia/  of course20:15
Khertan_n900hum 4.6 not available yet so20:15
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fralsgotta love living in sweden.. snowing like crazy outside20:17
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lcukfrals, i saw your post earlier20:18
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lcukshocking of course20:18
frals:)20:18
Khertan_n900hum next time i should be more precise ... and any documentation for PyQt ?20:19
fralsfixed the config dialog not showing up if settings are filled in now and also changed to a picker on image resize20:19
fralsneed to see if i can get the other stuff fixed without breaking anything as well20:19
lcuk\o/20:20
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copumpkinlcuk: is your liqflow source available?20:26
lcukapt-get source liqflow20:26
lcukor github.com/lcuk20:26
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copumpkinaha, nice20:26
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C-S-B-N900DocScrutinizer-8: i like the 820:26
C-S-B-N900are you rolling the advanced kernel?20:26
DocScrutinizer-8:-)20:26
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* MohammadAG heard something about kernels20:27
MohammadAGoh20:27
C-S-B-N900i eat kernels for breakfast.20:27
DocScrutinizer-8C-S-B-N900: ehh? advanced kernel?20:28
Wolfieor simply wheat kernels?20:28
C-S-B-N900yeah, with overclocking tunnels etc...20:28
C-S-B-N900in the repo20:28
DocScrutinizer-8bah20:28
DocScrutinizer-8/version me!20:29
MohammadAGpopped kernels ftw :P20:29
C-S-B-N900i stuck all the megadrive and snes roms on my phone earlier. :)20:29
nid0brain party works properly now \o/20:29
MohammadAG8=N8x0?20:29
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C-S-B-N9002.8.4 Linux 2.6.21-omap1 [armv6l]20:29
DocScrutinizer-8N81020:29
MohammadAG:)20:30
C-S-B-N900nid0: is that the tuxradar game?20:30
nid0no, its a load of puzzles, basically20:30
MohammadAGdoesn't have to do with tux20:30
nid0really really well designed though20:30
MohammadAGit's like Brain Challenge btw (PSP/PS3/N-Gage etc...)20:31
C-S-B-N900nid0: i thought one of the guys from linux format wrote it20:31
C-S-B-N900paul hudson...20:31
C-S-B-N900i think20:31
nid0yeah he did20:31
C-S-B-N900well he does tuxradar20:31
C-S-B-N900ergo20:31
C-S-B-N900nid0: is that the tuxradar game?20:31
C-S-B-N900:p20:31
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nid0in which case I change my answer to yes. first time you said it I read as far as tux and assumed you meant tuxracer20:32
C-S-B-N900its ok nid0, theres no beef.20:32
C-S-B-N900is it in the repo?20:32
nid0beef's nice tho :(20:32
MohammadAGgrr TypeError: GtkAboutDialog.set_version() argument 1 must be string or None, not module20:32
nid0its in -testing atm20:33
nid0go test it and vote, will be really nice to see it get to extras asap20:33
C-S-B-N900who ported it?20:33
nid0thp20:33
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C-S-B-N900i dont know him.20:33
C-S-B-N900:/20:33
nid0hudzilla's been helping him though, he made a few changes to the original code and is now taking thp's ported code and merging it back upstream to his own20:33
nid0so his will now compile fine directly on just about anything20:34
_Lucretia_which cortex revision is in the n900?20:34
C-S-B-N900a820:34
_Lucretia_er yeah20:34
* _Lucretia_ is looking at the arm site for manuals, there seems to be 8 revisions of the A820:35
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C-S-B-N900sorry!20:35
_Lucretia_r1p1, r2p0, etc20:35
C-S-B-N900couldnt the phone theorectically have any of them, if they are in the same package.20:35
_Lucretia_yeah, i spose, but then there shouldn't really be different manuals for them20:36
_Lucretia_as they look like they have same but may have different added features too20:36
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_Lucretia_http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.subset.swdev.abi/index.html20:37
_Lucretia_ah it's ok, the other manuals are superceded20:37
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C-S_B-N900great, i have a zombie20:39
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FredrIQis there some way to record? :P20:41
FredrIQnot an important feature for me, but would be useful atm20:41
SpeedEvilrecord what?20:41
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FredrIQsound20:41
SpeedEvilyes20:42
FredrIQyay20:42
FredrIQwhere?20:42
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SpeedEvilthere is a sound recorder widget in the repos somewhere20:42
SpeedEvilI forget the name20:42
* FIQ == FredrIQ20:42
FIQah, ok20:42
MohammadAGrecaller?20:42
MohammadAGor recorder for voice recording20:43
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FIQ(19:43:03) (MohammadAG) or recorder for voice recording20:43
FIQthat one20:43
MohammadAG:)20:44
MohammadAGit's kind of weird that I hit End instead of answer today20:44
MohammadAGgot attracted to the big red button20:44
FIQlol20:44
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LuciusMare|awayhaha20:45
nid0recaller will also work for voice recording as well20:45
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LuciusMare_"oooh, shiny, red button..." *rejects call*20:45
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DocScrutinizer-8WAAAAAAAA20:47
LuciusMare_DocScrutinizer seems to be fan of Metallica20:47
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meceMetallica how?20:47
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* mece noticed his metal detector went off ;)20:47
LuciusMare_:P20:47
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LuciusMare_Hm, I wonder, are there somewhere the original files for icons? I mean, for example osso xterm svg...20:48
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DocScrutinizer-8suspend to disk -> Wlan dies. Switch off wlan hard, rmmod ath5k, enable wlan, modprobe ath5k -> wlan resurrects but same moment kmixer dies.  Then 10 minutes later kde session gets closed unadvertedly20:49
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RST38hmoo all20:50
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MohammadAGmoo RST38h20:51
lcukbaaaaa RST38h20:51
LuciusMare_woof RST38h20:51
FIQRST38h20:51
mecegrowl RST38h20:51
RST38hhow are things? pr1.2? =)20:51
FIQwhere is the confirm on exit buttom? :D20:51
FIQno20:51
LuciusMare_exit bottom?20:51
lcuk"#maemo users : completely normal"20:51
FIQer20:51
FIQbutton*20:51
MohammadAGRST38h, you just pinged half the channel20:51
MohammadAG:P20:51
FIQin xchat i mean20:52
RST38hlcuk: "assorted nuts"20:52
DocScrutinizermeegow RST38h20:52
RST38hWhat is confirm on exit?20:52
RST38hHow should it look?20:52
FIQuh20:52
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FIQa dialog appearing if you tries to exit xchat asking if you're sure20:53
FIQit exists for desktop version, don't find it in preferences20:53
* LuciusMare_ would need that with xterm20:53
MohammadAGFIQ, you removed it20:53
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FIQaw20:53
MohammadAG"Don't ask next time"20:53
FIQhow to reset it?20:54
MohammadAGpurge and reinstall20:54
FIQi'm pretty sure i didn't20:54
FIQuhm20:54
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FIQisn't there an easier way...?20:54
MohammadAGnot sure20:54
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MohammadAGFIQ, type /set20:54
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LuciusMare_of course there20:55
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LuciusMare_of course there is, just reflash20:55
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RST38hFIQ: I personally have no need for such a dialog.20:57
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, yes eventually a kernel module would be sane20:58
RST38hIf I say "close", I mean "close, don't give me crap"20:58
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RST38hAfter being asked about the App Store's recent ban on "sexy apps," Steve Jobs responded, "We do believe we have a moral responsibility to keep porn off the iPhone. Folks who want porn can buy an Android phone. You know, there's a porn store for Android, you can download nothing but porn. You can download porn, your kids can download porn. That's a place we don't want to go, so we're not...20:58
RST38h...going to go there."20:58
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ShadowJKbut right now I don't want a kernel module that reserves these resources and tells the nokia.com bme to fuck off20:58
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* derf watches everyone on the internet abandon Apple for Android.20:59
RST38hYep20:59
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RST38hPorn! El Jobso promised porn on Android! He is God, so he is always right!20:59
SpeedEvilRST38h: 0:47 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvRGh2NEjSU21:00
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nid0porn apps for maemo are overdue, thatll get the download numbers looking healthy21:00
meceit came with a porn app!21:00
LuciusMare_mece: cat you mean?21:00
nid0a more dedicated one than the browser.21:00
meceMicroB21:00
lcuki misread that as a porn map21:00
lcukand wondered what the hotspots would be marked as21:01
MiXu-I'm especially looking forward to seeing an boob-app that responds to touch and accelerometer.21:01
aSIMULAtorhttp://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/21:01
aSIMULAtorfor anyone interested21:01
LuciusMare_haha,er.21:01
meceso liek a redtube app or something?21:01
RST38hIf you mean Ovi Maps on Maemo, that is more like S&M app21:01
aSIMULAtorsolar dynamics observatory opens in 15 mins21:01
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lcuk:D aSIMULAtor cool21:01
SpeedEvilI'd love an app to tell me about iridium flares21:01
lcukdid you see last nights discussion about fmms btw?21:01
aSIMULAtorno21:02
lcukin #maemo-ui - theres a pretty indepth discussion in your scrollback21:02
lcukfailing that its been logged21:02
MiXu-What's #maemo-ui for?21:03
lcukui/ux related things21:03
aSIMULAtorlayout help etc21:03
MiXu-It's a dev-channel then?21:03
lcukyes - but not code dev21:04
lcukinterface dev21:04
MiXu-got it21:04
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naxuis fmms user friendly nowadays?21:07
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naxuor does it still need manual AP fiddling?21:07
mecefrals, this guy *points at naxu* wants to know if fmms is user friendly!21:08
lcuknaxu, frals is, theres some sharp bits if it doesnt go according to plan that we are ironing it out21:08
meceIroning it with a mallet21:08
lcuknot at all :)21:08
naxuI read that "not quite yet" :)21:08
mecea sledgehammer?21:08
lcukfrals has done rock solid work - just streamlining it21:08
fralsnaxu: you still need to find the settings and input them yourself im afraid... but im working on that ;) or rather, *we* are working on that21:09
naxuit handles image downscale when sending?21:09
fralsyes21:09
naxuto 100kb or 300kb?21:09
fralsto whatever the user has set resize width to in pixels21:10
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, amusingly it seems several userspace apps can access same dev on i2c simultaneously... or then I've just been lucky and never had bme and bq*.sh clash so far :)21:10
MohammadAGfrals, I think orange crippled my mms reception, sending to other operators works21:10
RST38hlcuk: Any idea on whether we will ever have file transfers, ignore lists, and other advanced features in messaging?21:10
mecefrals is full of awesome and win!21:10
* ShadowJK runs it continously21:10
lcukfrals, "i" was better :) YOU ar ethe one whos done the hard work, we are merely suggesting things21:10
fralsMohammadAG: weird, give em a call and yell ;)21:11
naxufrals: so user needs to know what image resolution fits in mms limits?21:11
fralsnaxu: it defaults to 240 which *SHOULD* work for everyone21:11
MohammadAGfrals, I need a hebrew for dummies book21:11
fralsbut not all operators limit the size to 300k21:11
fralsmine eg doesnt give a shit what size i send it in21:11
naxufrals: yeah, it depends on operator21:11
fralsbut if the other handset cant handle it it never gets there21:11
lcukRST38h, unknown by me, not an area i am personally concerned about - sms wouldnt support them anyway21:11
fralsi sent myself a 5mpix picture by mistake - arrived flawlessly on my other device21:12
fralsgranted it took a while to dl it21:12
MohammadAGfrals, doesn't mms support file sending now?21:12
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naxufrals: operator downsamples images if receiving end doesn't know how to open big ones21:12
RST38hlcuk: Oh21:12
fralsnaxu: not all does21:12
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naxufrals: yeah might be21:12
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fralsnaxu: believe me, i've done some testing on the subject :-)21:12
naxufrals: me too :) .. how about receiving?21:13
fralswhat about it?21:13
naxuit handles it automatically?21:13
fralsas long as settings are good yes21:13
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naxunice21:14
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MohammadAGhttp://i39.tinypic.com/a40ois.jpg xD21:15
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lcukMohammadAG, how did you manage such a thing21:16
MohammadAGlcuk, I'm not sure, prolly cause of attaching a laser to the back21:18
* lcuk nods21:18
lcukok, bug 9994 just got created21:18
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9994 objdump segfaults when specifying a binary BFD21:18
lcukthat means that sometime in next 24h someone will get 10k21:18
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lcuki hope its a good one \o/21:18
lcukone we can close easily lol21:19
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MohammadAG~flashing21:19
infobotwell, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware21:19
Xisdibikanyone here played freeciv on the n900?21:20
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: either I2Ctools and bme lock the device, so bme / tools gets EAGAIN. Or you actually just were lucky. Well, a collision isn't *that* easy to spot either. Results highly unpredictable but odds are it will go unnoticed21:21
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hrwre21:21
RST38hA radical Islamic website is warning the creators of South Park that they could face violent retribution for depicting the Prophet Muhammad in a bear suit during an episode broadcast on Comedy Central last week.21:21
hrwXisdibik: freeciv on 800x480? must be hard21:21
StskeepsRST38h: which is -really- funny considering the episode itself21:21
mecehrw, perfectly playable.,21:21
mecehrw, at year 2050 on mine.21:21
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, bme keeps it open all the time btw :)21:22
ShadowJKit does a few accesses per minute, atleast when on charger, iirc21:22
Xisdibikhrw: thats what id assume, thats why i wanted to ask21:22
hrwmece: I played civ1 on 640x256, then freeciv on 1154x864, then on 1680x1050. so for me 800x480/n900 is too small21:22
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Xisdibikmece: can you screen shot the gameplay?21:22
mecesure..21:23
RST38hStskeeps: I mean, if these towelheads actually pull it, they will deserve a solid 7/10 in my book, 8/10 if they blow the whole studio21:23
Xisdibikmece: thanks :)21:23
meceholdup21:23
SpeedEvilRST38h: what if they kill kenny?21:23
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I haven't been able to snoop bme <-> bq* traffic :(21:23
Xisdibikthen they are bastards SpeedEvil21:23
StskeepsShadowJK: stub out the i2c libraries?21:23
RST38hSpeedEvil: Plagiarism is not to be rewarded!21:23
PhonicUKhey all21:23
ShadowJKthat's actually what I began with, heh. using gdb to dump core and then trying to find the i2c comm buffer21:24
ShadowJKStskeeps, hm?21:24
Stskeepswell, the i2c calls21:24
Stskeepslike, ltrace and friends21:24
PhonicUKits time to update maemo :\21:24
PhonicUKany advice (other than backup) before i do?21:25
hrwPhonicUK: update to what?21:25
PhonicUKdunno, but theres a update recently become available21:25
PhonicUKnoticed it on my way home21:25
ShadowJKStskeeps, oh, the i2c "library" is a .h file consisting mostly of #define i2c_read(x, y, z) ioctl(x, 0x720, *y, *z) kinda things21:25
hrwPhonicUK: if system update then do backup and then update21:26
hrwPhonicUK: if apps update then just update21:26
PhonicUKits a system update, it told me it has to be done through pc suite21:26
PhonicUKwill it backup my home directory?21:26
hrwit lies about pc suite21:26
PhonicUKoh?21:26
PhonicUKapt-get dist-upgrade ?21:26
ShadowJKStskeeps, so I guess LD_PRELOAD would be feasible, but then reboot-loop hits if I get it wrong21:27
hrwno - use hildon-app-manager21:27
PhonicUKthe normal application manager?21:28
hrwyep21:28
PhonicUKit wouldn't let me21:28
ShadowJKor find a way for gdb to dump core right before and right after the relevant ioctl, since bme seems to keep the paramters/bfuffer on the stack, which gets destroyed when it goes back to whatever :/21:28
hrwPhonicUK: strange - allowed me.. sorry then no help from me21:29
SpeedEvilShadowJK: there is a way to get it to boot into another OS - hold down a key - I forget - and it runs a script21:29
SpeedEvilShadowJK: copy / to /sd - piviot_root, viola21:30
PhonicUKanyone know if the Quake II port uses OpenGL ES21:31
PhonicUKor if its a software renderer21:31
mecewell, is it fast? I haven't tried it.21:31
PhonicUKi havent tried yet either xD21:31
PhonicUKits more about the quality of the visuals than speed anyway21:31
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: well I thought more of just polling whole bq24150 reg set on a regular schedule, and then simply deduce what bme told to bq2515021:31
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DocScrutinizer[2010-04-21 20:24:49] <PhonicUK> its time to update maemo :\   ---   o.O21:33
PhonicUKyah21:34
PhonicUKapparently theres a maemo system update, and it insists on using PC Suite to do it21:34
Milo-you better not be kidding ._·21:34
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DocScrutinizerLOL21:34
PhonicUKim not21:34
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fralshaha21:34
fralsso UK is getting 1.1.1 then? ;)21:34
Milo-I don't have a pcsuite :(21:34
hrwPhonicUK: to 3.2010.02?21:35
DocScrutinizereven UK 1.1.1 is weeks ago21:35
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: it's annoying that you can't write the bq22 registers to reflect the real 'off' voltages - so it could learn21:35
lcukdepends if you just recently flashed an image21:35
lcukand if that image needs updating21:35
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: 27200?21:36
SpeedEvily21:36
* VDVsx yawns :021:36
DocScrutinizerwell, you need a learncycle aka battery complete drain21:36
PhonicUKI'm currently on 3.2.2010.02-8.203.121:36
PhonicUKbrb desktop restart21:37
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* DocScrutinizer away for schweinebraten. bbl21:37
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: yes - which the normal software won't do - as it powers off well before the thresholds programmed into chip21:37
SpeedEvil(at least for me)21:37
SpeedEvilShadowJK: has yours ever learned?>21:37
PhonicUKon phone while waiting for reboot21:37
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: then we either  need a bat-conditioner app as seen on many laptops. Or we need a reprogramming of 27200 eeprom :-S21:38
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: which needs a 27v vpp pulse21:38
DocScrutinizeryep21:39
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PhonicUKUpdate: 3.2010.03.021:41
PhonicUKwtf21:41
lcukPhonicUK, did you diddle with your packages and remove something you shouldnt have21:41
PhonicUKnope21:41
LuciusMare_Hi, i have got there a problem with the shell: "ash /bin/ls" = "/bin/ls: line 1: syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")")", and "bash /bin/ls" = "ls: /bin/ls: cannot execute binary file"21:41
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PhonicUKLuciusMare_, whats the line you're trying to run?21:42
LuciusMare_"ash /bin/ls" and "bash /bin/ls"21:42
* DocScrutinizer 's temped to frisbee his esprimo. Last week got a new fan (20EUR, real bargain), today HDD starts shooting my ears with ultrasonic dangerous level (well, maybe 18KHz)21:43
PhonicUKwell bash isn't installed by default21:43
LuciusMare_(I have bash installed)21:44
PhonicUKok21:44
PhonicUKcan you run it on its own?21:44
mecesorry who wanted freeciv screenshots? I got caught up in something..21:44
LuciusMare_PhonicUK: on it's own? Yes. But when i want it to execute another command just right after running (and then exit), it does this21:44
LuciusMare_(And, as a use for this, I want to have a shortcut to root shell, a .desktop file)21:45
noobmonk3ylol!21:45
noobmonk3yuk vodafone finally got 1.1.1?21:45
LuciusMare_and apparently, osso-xterm sudo gainroot does not work, so i have to use osso-xterm <shell> sudo gainroot which does not work either...21:46
hrwmece: Xisdibik and I21:46
* PhonicUK didn't realise there where network branded versions of Maemo?21:46
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noobmonk3yonly that 121:47
noobmonk3yand not really branded, yet!21:47
LuciusMare_what did they do with the maemo?21:47
LuciusMare_change wallpaper?21:47
* PhonicUK is on Tmo21:47
noobmonk3ynothing yet21:47
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare_: this won't work any way21:47
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LuciusMare_DocScrutinizer: aw, why not?21:47
noobmonk3yjust hold back the poor uk peeps21:47
mecehrw, Xisfibik, here: http://twitpic.com/1hc40621:47
BCMMis it possible to stop my phone setting my skype "real name" to my skype username?21:48
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PhonicUK*cough* debrand *cough*21:48
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare_: security considerations should prohibit it21:48
PhonicUKBCMM, i would also like to know xD21:48
hrwmece: thx21:48
BCMMmy parents aren't to technical and seem somewhat confused as to who i am when it happens21:48
BCMM^too21:48
PhonicUKroffle21:48
PhonicUKi think you have to add yourself as a contact21:48
meceit's bonkers to look at that pic on my monitor. It's really big :D21:48
LuciusMare_DocScrutinizer: i do not think it is a big security flaw if one can already easily access the root21:48
PhonicUKand fill in the "Real Name" field21:49
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare_: sudo gainroot is a hack. It's not designed in a way to allow all other brainfuck that's considered "not worse"21:50
* lcuk collapses in a heap21:50
lcuki need beer infusion21:50
PhonicUK'sudo gainroot' worries me :\21:50
fralslcuk: share the beer!21:50
PhonicUKwhat if some malicious app tried to run it :|21:50
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fralswell .deb (post|pre)(rm|inst) are run as root anyway arent they? :p21:51
PhonicUKi wonder if the default SSHd setup is clever enough to not allow incomming connections over the modem and only over WiFi21:51
LuciusMare_PhonicUK: o21:51
PhonicUKfrals, malicious browser script?21:51
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lcukPhonicUK, the default sshd is to not have sshd installed21:51
PhonicUKi know :P21:51
LuciusMare_PhonicUK: echo "rm -rf /*"|sudo gainroot           ==        instant disaster21:51
PhonicUKi installed sshd though for my convenience :)21:52
PhonicUKand development21:52
LuciusMare_(And I hope nobody ever tries to run that)21:52
lcukthen put a 255 character password in21:52
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lcukor whatever max is21:52
PhonicUK echo "echo foo" | sudo gainroot21:52
PhonicUKworks21:52
lcukand maybe setup a routing table thingy21:52
fralslcuk: i assume hes worried about the increased traffic over 3g if someone tries to bruteforce him or what not21:52
PhonicUKlcuk, im actually going to disable all password authentication over SSH21:52
lcukdoesnt the sudo get done after the echo21:52
lcukhence wouldnt deleter21:52
PhonicUKand only allow RSA authentication21:53
lcukyeah thats cool too21:53
LuciusMare_DocScrutinizer: so you recommend gaining root, changing password, editing sudoers, and removing "gainroot" ?21:53
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, yep, the other day it even completed a learning cycle without shutting down21:53
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lcukfrals is right anyway21:53
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lcukthe act of installing malicious sudo gainroot hacking script is installed as root21:53
ShadowJKbut I monitored it closely and set offline mode towards the end to keep load, and thus voltage, stable21:53
PhonicUK LuciusMare_ , I wouldn't do that except with a password far too annoying to type on the N900 keyboard xD21:53
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, yes that's my current plan..21:54
DocScrutinizerI recommend a good book about unix administration, yeah. Prolly such book will quote your procedure somewhere in first chapter21:54
PhonicUKisn't there an app somewhere that shows you which apps are the most battery hungry?21:54
lcukso: trusted confirmed apps only from good confirmed repositories21:54
PhonicUKCPU time usage * battery decline21:54
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lcukhow do you split each app apart21:54
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, i started with trying to snoop nut gave up on that21:54
lcukcpu != battery usage21:54
ShadowJK(before talking to bq)21:54
PhonicUKno but its a good indicator21:54
LuciusMare_DocScrutinizer: i know, but hell i know what happens there, if i am not going to break it by doing so21:54
PhonicUKignoring WiFi/3G/GPS21:55
PhonicUKyou can also measure data usage by process, and which process is using GPS21:55
PhonicUKso you could take those into account21:55
* DocScrutinizer recommends LuciusMare_ to read about SUID21:56
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DocScrutinizerand why it won't work for scripts21:56
MohammadAGSUID?21:56
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LuciusMare_oh, hah.21:56
LuciusMare_i just broke it21:57
LuciusMare_^^21:57
* MohammadAG wants to know why sudo works for him21:57
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PhonicUKDocScrutinizer, My script ran sudo gainroot and executed a command21:57
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LuciusMare_Sorry, user user is not allowed to execute '*' as root on <hostname>21:57
LuciusMare_yay21:57
PhonicUKit looked like you where saying a script can't do that21:57
Xisdibikmece: i did sorry for late reply21:57
Xisdibikmece: im heading off for a n hour tho, or more.  have lunch, and then a class21:58
Xisdibikmece: so if your around later ill remind u21:58
meceXisdibik, did you get the pic?21:58
kamui_dudes21:58
Xisdibikmece: lemme check the logs21:58
kamui_I am in love with this new kernel21:58
meceXisdibik, http://twitpic.com/1hc40621:58
PhonicUKLuciusMare_, what did you try to get that result?21:58
meceI misspelt your name ;)21:58
kamui_850mhz N900 runs perfectly smooth21:58
* PhonicUK wants to overclock, but doesn't want to void his warranty :(21:58
PhonicUKwhat's a hacker to do21:58
acidjazzwhat kernel21:58
kamui_and I love how it idles down at 250mhz, my battery is great new21:58
Xisdibikmece: haha np, thanks for t he pic i  might ask u more about it later, gotta run21:59
kamui_now21:59
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fralsand will burst in flames at some point \o/21:59
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* DocScrutinizer wants to know if there's any more schweinebraten for dinner over there in the pub21:59
PhonicUKi always thought 250mhz was a little high for idling :\21:59
PhonicUKwhy not lower21:59
kamui_well, if it dies, it dies, its was only 500$, Ill just buy another one.21:59
LuciusMare_PhonicUK: what result?21:59
kamui_chances are a newer maemo device will be out by then :)21:59
acidjazzlol21:59
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acidjazzthere will never be a new maemo device21:59
PhonicUK<LuciusMare_> Sorry, user user is not allowed to execute '*' as root on <hostname>21:59
LuciusMare_yes, i cant do anything anymore as root, i reached it :)22:00
Kamuiacidjazz, corrected, meego22:00
PhonicUKi se22:00
LuciusMare_note reinstalling rootsh fails22:00
Kamuianyhoo, PhonicUK unless you're really paranoid, its a night and day difference22:00
PhonicUKhttp://mirror.servut.us/flash/4chan-f/-/zipperroll.swf22:00
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Kamuieven flash video that was a bit shakey is now smooth22:00
PhonicUKKamui, what is?22:00
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Kamuithe oc22:01
Kamuikernel22:01
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PhonicUKbut i wants my warranty :(22:01
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Kamuihmm22:01
Kamuidoes the current kernel even idle down the cpu?22:01
PhonicUKyes22:01
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PhonicUKto 250MHz minimum22:02
PhonicUKwhich i always thought was a bit high :\22:02
Kamuithere is a lower setting of 125myhz22:02
Kamuibut it causes issues22:02
PhonicUKwhy not 125 or so22:02
PhonicUKoh?22:02
LuciusMare_su root = su: must be suid to work properly22:02
Kamuiand you can customzie it with this kernel22:02
LuciusMare_what.22:02
Kamuisuccessfully runs up to 1.1ghz22:02
Kamuithough I wouldnt' recommend athat :)22:02
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Kamuiblender also runs pretty nicely now22:02
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PhonicUKnice22:03
PhonicUKtry http://mirror.servut.us/flash/4chan-f/-/zipperroll.swf overclocked22:03
PhonicUKeeh or not22:03
PhonicUKit doesnt work ;\22:03
lcuki remember the THG video showing chips melting and burning without fans on22:04
PhonicUKi remember that!22:04
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PhonicUKP3/P4 and a couple of AMD chips22:04
lcukit was the amd ones22:04
PhonicUKthey caught fire22:04
MohammadAGwow something was causing a memory leak22:04
lcukthe p4 underclocked itself nicely22:04
lcukthe amd went up in smoke22:04
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PhonicUKthe P3 underclocked, the P4 hung22:04
LuciusMare_Hm, any ideas how to get out of this situation?22:04
lcuk? LuciusMare_22:05
PhonicUKhow can i get flash to capture the 'mouse' cursor?22:05
PhonicUKi cant click in this applet22:05
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fralsenable the mouse cursor and click?22:05
lcukdo the ARM chips have similar thermal cutoff22:05
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lcukor would they smoke if you really sent them spinning22:05
LuciusMare_lcuk: i uncommented gainroot in sudoers, and changed user's password in hopes that i wont need to use gainroot anymore, and now i am locked out of root totally: "sorry, user user is not allowed to..."22:05
PhonicUKhow do you enable the cursor?22:05
lcukahh well LuciusMare_22:05
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LuciusMare_PhonicUK: slide from left side of the screen22:06
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LuciusMare_lcuk: su root: must be suid22:06
PhonicUKaha!22:06
fralsLuciusMare_: reinstalling rootsh from HAM *MIGHT* revert the config file, if you are lucky :p22:06
PhonicUKwow thats slow...22:06
johnsqHi22:06
LuciusMare_frals: i am not, it does not work22:06
PhonicUKanyone with a OC'd unit care to try that link out?22:06
LuciusMare_I am going to try to get some rootkits... :D22:07
MohammadAGjust purge it :P22:07
LuciusMare_how, without root?22:07
MohammadAGroot, purge22:07
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LuciusMare_how, *without root*?22:07
MohammadAGyou'll still be in a root prompt22:07
LuciusMare_i am not22:07
MohammadAGerr22:07
LuciusMare_i have no root prompt open22:07
MohammadAGssh to 127.0.0.122:07
MohammadAG:)22:08
LuciusMare_i have root login disabled22:08
LuciusMare_:<22:08
MohammadAGdownload ssh22:08
LuciusMare_i do have ssh22:08
MohammadAGoh22:08
LuciusMare_but i disabled root login in config22:08
MohammadAGR&D mode22:08
LuciusMare_pr 1.222:08
MohammadAGhuh22:08
LuciusMare_*pr 1.122:08
MohammadAGR&D mode, sudo gainroot22:08
LuciusMare_R&D?22:08
LuciusMare_heh22:09
LuciusMare_that will need reflash anyway :P22:09
LuciusMare_hm22:10
LuciusMare_what about running my own repo on my LAN, creating a rescue .deb package which opens xterm with root shell for me?22:10
BCMMtalking of ssh, do services work in the normal debian way?22:11
BCMMi mean, if i want SSH to be off at boot time, how do i set that up?22:11
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BCMM(i've installed the status thingy for starting/stopping SSH)22:11
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, no22:12
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: why?22:12
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MohammadAGit needs flasher, not a reflash22:12
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LuciusMare_so it wont flash my device?22:13
LuciusMare_and can i revert it?22:13
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MohammadAG1 no, 2 yes22:13
LuciusMare_perfect22:13
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Celestehhowdy, i want to compile something with a makefile, but make is not in my path. where is it normally?22:14
noobmonk3yhmmm can i safely delete most things in /tmp?22:14
fralsnoobmonk3y: /tmp is cleared ond evice reboot22:15
fralsso most likely22:15
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noobmonk3yhmm mmine never seems to be22:15
noobmonk3yalways same old rubbish22:15
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fralswell they are probably created on startup ;)22:15
* C-S-B-N900 enjoying brain party22:15
noobmonk3y:P22:16
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C-S-B-N900I am a staticion22:16
ShapeshifterC-S-B-N900: I cant unlock anyof the secrets22:16
C-S-B-N900urgh, can't spell.22:16
C-S-B-N900Shapeshifter: do you know what triggers an unlock?22:17
Shapeshifter"platinum" score, whatever that is. I guess 500. on the forums someone said 450-50022:17
ShapeshifterAlso, the more I play baloon blaster, the lower my score gets. I once played extremely fast and well and got 17 points22:17
Shapeshifteror fail22:18
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C-S-B-N900i thought it was done on weight not scrore...22:18
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Shapeshifterweight?22:19
Shapeshifterin any case, go to "results" and tap on the stars at the bottom22:19
Shapeshifterit tells you the triggers22:19
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LuciusMare_ooo, so my n900 is in the r&d mode22:21
LuciusMare_now let's see if it helps22:21
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LuciusMare_*2001 theme*22:22
korhojoadamn. first FIASCO reflash. that is FAST!22:23
LuciusMare_:(22:23
lcukLuciusMare_, if you go wandering off into the jungle iwth your machete you can expect some prickles22:23
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LuciusMare_it doesnt help22:24
MohammadAGo.o22:24
LuciusMare_sorry, user user is not allowed to execute /usr/bin/gainroot on hostname22:25
LuciusMare_s/bin22:26
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LuciusMare_s/bin/sbin/22:26
infobotLuciusMare_ meant: s/sbin22:26
LuciusMare_thanks infobot...22:26
infobotLuciusMare_: pas de quoi22:26
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LuciusMare_MohammadAG: any more ideas?22:26
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MohammadAGLuciusMare_, sudo gainroot22:28
LuciusMare_sorry, user user is not allowed to execute /usr/bin/gainroot on hostname22:28
MohammadAGsudo su?22:28
LuciusMare_sorry, user user is not allowed to execute /bin/su on hostname22:28
MohammadAGu sure it's in R&D mode?22:29
LuciusMare_es22:29
LuciusMare_*yes22:29
MohammadAGlock the screen22:29
MohammadAGwhat does the kb do?22:29
ech0HTPCwonder if e17/compiz could run decent on the n90022:29
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ech0HTPCis there a way to try out different desktop environments?22:29
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LuciusMare_it is in the rd mode22:30
LuciusMare_it flashes22:31
LuciusMare_which is pretty cool, and i like it, but it flashes also when the keyboard is closed :(22:31
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MohammadAGLuciusMare_, no idea then22:32
ech0HTPCcan the n900 do a terminal login? and then startx into e17 or even gnome?22:33
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ShadowJKah, off work22:33
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: when I try to uninstall the rootsh package, it tellse me that it cannot be uninstalled22:35
LuciusMare_so by editing the sudoers i probably scerwed it.22:35
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MohammadAGdoesn't rootsh have a broken postrm script?22:35
LuciusMare_i have no idea22:36
MohammadAGcheck the logs22:36
LuciusMare_but it didnt do so untill the r&d22:36
noobmonk3ycan someone explain to me...... why The PYqt documentation examples are not in python but in C++? (or similar anyway) - http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/static/Docs/PyQt4/html/qlistwidget.html  ?!?!22:36
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fralsnoobmonk3y: probably imported and not yet translated22:37
fralspymaemo had some of those for a while as well :p22:37
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noobmonk3ygRrrrrrrrrrrrrrr22:37
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noobmonk3y:(22:37
NeXuZhelloo22:37
fralswhats the problem? seems pretty straight forward to translate them noobmonk3y :)22:38
LuciusMare_hm, what apps that have influence on system are possible to run with sudo?22:38
LuciusMare_I mean, for example HAM22:38
fralstheres no real black magic going on from what i can see there atleast22:38
noobmonk3yno, just got annoyed it is always in C22:38
noobmonk3ynot an actual issue with the page22:38
noobmonk3yapart from it says PyQT and advertises C22:38
fralsnoobmonk3y: take the hint, change to C ;D22:38
* noobmonk3y grimaces22:38
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LuciusMare_MohammadAG: can you msg me your sudoers?22:39
C-S-B-N900all languages are pretty much the same.22:39
C-S-B-N900c rules. :)22:40
* noobmonk3y looks at chinese then at english...... really?22:40
LuciusMare_C-S-B-N900: brainfuck, BASIC, python...22:40
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, how do you plan on editing them?22:40
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C-S-B-N900LuciusMare_: eh?22:40
MohammadAGlcuk, got liqflow to get all dots into one dot xD22:40
LuciusMare_i dont, i just want to see if there arent any apps that can be ran under root and can be used to solve my problem22:40
lcukMohammadAG, now, get them apart again ;)22:40
lcukusually its possible22:40
BCMMare n900 hardware-related questions offtopic here?22:41
lcuktho sometimes not22:41
lcukBCMM, lots of things are ontopic here :) just ask22:41
* MohammadAG tries22:41
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NeXuZdoes anyone know why i get the permission denied error when i try to compile a program, at the ./configure command :s22:42
LuciusMare_lcuk, can you do me a favor?22:42
BCMMi'm thinking of getting a car charger for my n900, but the nokia DC-10 looks kinda bulky and only powers micro-USB devices22:42
LuciusMare_could you msg me your sudoers?22:42
BCMMthere are loads of chargers available that just have a USB port on them22:42
lcuknope LuciusMare_ im in a meego meeting atm and my phone is elsewhere22:42
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BCMMbut they are presumably dumb; will the n900 behave as a low-power USB device since it can't negotiate with them?22:43
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, what's the point22:43
BCMM(and therefore charge slowly, if at all)22:43
sECuREhttp://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libalarm/ says the source is in the subversion repository dms, subdir alarmd. where can i find that repository?22:44
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: HAM could solve my problems, but i am searching for an easier solution22:44
MohammadAGif you can't edit them22:44
LuciusMare_*sigh22:44
BCMMhmm i put that kinda long-windedly22:44
LuciusMare_i dont, i just want to see if there arent any apps that can be ran under root and can be used to solve my problem22:44
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, but you can't edit your sudoers22:44
LuciusMare_so what?22:44
MohammadAGhuh22:44
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LuciusMare_You dont understand me, right?22:44
MohammadAGno, you're just not making sense :)22:45
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BCMMshorter version: will the n900 behave as a low-power (100mA) USB device if i plug it into a completely dumb USB power source? the power source is rated up to 1A (for some reason)22:45
LuciusMare_I *can* run the apps in sudoers under root, but none else, and there is a giant load of apps, and i believe that some of them can be used to get root access22:45
lcukBCMM, not sure if 100ma will give a positive charging result22:45
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, just make a deb package with a postinst script that echos a sudoer file for su22:45
BCMMlcuk: yeah, i know22:45
lcukie undetermined - but if its proper spec usb and the device is certified for it then try it22:46
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: and how would i import it to the n900?22:46
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MohammadAGLuciusMare_, file manager22:46
BCMMlcuk: well, i haven't bought the device yet22:46
lcukwhich the n900?22:46
LuciusMare_you are awesome.22:47
BCMMlcuk: i'm worried the n900 will do the technically correct thing and only draw 100mA because the device is not clever enough to be asked nicely before taking more22:47
lcukBCMM, my charger has a usb plug on the end of it22:47
SpeedEvilBCMM: short D+ and D- - and you get a USB charger22:48
lcukand it charges faster from the plug than it gets from my laptop22:48
SpeedEvilBCMM: that performs to the USB spec22:48
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fralsLuciusMare_: the quick workaround is to rename one of them and replace them with a script doing what you want to be done22:48
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fralsLuciusMare_: eg restore the sudoers file and reload it - should work i guess?22:48
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LuciusMare_should.22:49
MohammadAGfrals, he doesn't have root perms to edit the sudoers files22:49
LuciusMare_(I feel kinda weird when i am actually exploiting my own system)22:49
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LuciusMare_MohammadAG: but the file maanager has22:49
MohammadAGnor update-sudoers22:49
fralsMohammadAG: he doesnt have to edit the sudoers file22:49
fralshe needs to rename one of the binaries that are allowed from sudoers.d22:49
MohammadAG?22:49
MohammadAGessentially, that's making a deb package :)22:50
MohammadAGactually making a deb package is easier :)22:50
fralserr22:50
fralssay you got a file in there allowing /usr/bin/bla to run as root22:50
fralsright nvm22:50
fralsthat is probably owned by root so cant rename it :D22:50
MohammadAG:)22:51
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MohammadAGfrals, a postinst script can help22:51
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LuciusMare_ah, yes, now i understood frals22:51
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: that's what i am going to do22:51
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LuciusMare_*sigh*22:52
MohammadAGecho "user ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/su" >> /etc/sudoers.d/su.sudoers22:52
MohammadAGthen update-sudoers22:52
LuciusMare_i was actually going to try nopasswd: gainroot22:53
LuciusMare_let's do both :)22:53
MohammadAGone should be enough22:53
LuciusMare_but, what .deb package?22:53
MohammadAGgainroot is sudo su22:53
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, make one...22:53
BCMMSpeedEvil: not entirely familiar with USB spec - do you mean there is a dumb, no-negotiation way to tell a device to draw full power?22:53
sECuREare libalarm2 and alarmd actually open-source? they come from the nokia-binaries repository, but in their copyright/readme files they state they are licensed under GPL22:53
sECuRE(and i can’t find the source)22:54
nid0man22:54
nid0back injuries are not fun :<22:54
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: i have never done anything like this before :<22:54
SpeedEvilBCMM: short D+ and D- pins22:54
MohammadAGdh_make22:54
BCMM(well, actually don't know much about USB beyond connecting motherboard headers properly)22:54
MohammadAGmake postinst file22:54
MohammadAGdpkg-buildpackage22:54
BCMMSpeedEvil: so a device that is supposed to just be a charger probably does that, right?22:54
SpeedEvilyes22:55
SpeedEvilunless it was made before the standard came about22:55
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BCMMSpeedEvil: is that part of the USB standard or the Open Mobile Terminal Platform standard?22:55
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SpeedEvilhttps://www.usb.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1412022:56
SpeedEvilusb standard22:56
DocScrutinizerlcuk: OMAP probably has no thermal auto throttling. And you heard the word 'electromigration', did you?22:56
BCMMwell, i guess i'll get one of the third-party ones - the nokia one is a bit bulky, and there are 3rd party ones which manage to fit the electronics entirely within the cig lighter plug22:56
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BCMMah! ones advertised as "for the iphone" - which uses a standard charger IIRC22:57
BCMMthanks for advice22:58
sECuREfor the reference, i finally found the alarmd-sources: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=dsm22:58
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LuciusMare_MohammadAG: i am lost, could you please create the package for me?23:02
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MohammadAGLuciusMare_, i'm away from a PC, i'll check if my n900 can do it23:03
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LuciusMare_agh23:04
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: there are two standards conforming ways to signal a charger to a gadget: Short D+ and D-. And a more obscure and complicated mode that is using a certain value resistor from USB ID-pin to GND.   AFAIK the Nokia charger for N900 is of the simple short-D+- type23:08
ShadowJKI don't remember seeing resistor on ID - GND in the USB charging spec :)23:08
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SpeedEvilthe charger spec only came about moderately receently23:09
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: supplement froddlpfrmpft-3.3435.A-foo23:09
ShadowJKyeah well, people were doing all sorts of random things before that ;)23:09
DocScrutinizerno, ID-R is a USB.org specified way23:10
ShadowJKis it in one of these? http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs23:10
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, can you get me a debian/rules file?23:11
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: somewhere in OTG23:11
DocScrutinizerthey even "re"-invented my Y-cable ;-P23:12
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: if i would know what it is...23:13
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MohammadAGLuciusMare_, get it from a package like file-roller23:14
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wizkodermoin23:14
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LuciusMare_MohammadAG: nevermind, thanks23:15
wizkoderjust installed xchat on the n900. works fine :)23:15
LuciusMare_i think i know...23:15
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MohammadAGLuciusMare_, i just need a rules file...23:15
LuciusMare_i do not know what it is...23:16
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/f/file-roller23:17
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MohammadAGacutally why don't i open that...23:17
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BCMMSpeedEvil: this charger standard, does it support higher powers than normal USB? will my phone charge faster on the main charger than on my PC?23:20
BCMM^mains23:20
korhojoayes23:21
korhojoaGuys, how much space is there free on the rootfs when fresh flash?23:22
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: how is it going?23:22
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, sec, tar isn't all that fun23:22
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LuciusMare_sure23:22
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korhojoaa reasonably fresh flash with just a few programs (less than 5mb installed according to the app manager) shows 58M available23:26
mecekorhojoa, depends on what repositories you have enabled..23:26
korhojoaand apt-get clean just somehow magically made 100kb dissappear23:26
* ShadowJK has 56M available, never reflashed, a dozen or so programs installed23:26
MohammadAGumm23:26
korhojoathe repos take up that much space?23:27
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: so?23:27
MohammadAGwhich package is dpkg-buildpackage in?23:27
mecetesting+ devel is almost 20Mb23:27
LuciusMare_i have no idea23:27
MohammadAGbuild-essentials?23:27
korhojoaaand devel is gone!23:27
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MohammadAGasking everyone not you :P23:27
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: is this the last step?23:28
MohammadAGyes23:28
LuciusMare_tar it all up and upload it, i'll do it myself on my machine23:28
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LuciusMare_MohammadAG: where are you uploading it?23:33
MohammadAGmeh failed23:34
LuciusMare_what?23:34
MohammadAGbusybox sucks23:34
LuciusMare_it does, so?23:34
MohammadAGtar failed23:35
meceMohammadAG, dpkg-dev I think btw.23:35
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MohammadAGmece, yeah using that (-deb)23:35
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mecetar -czf <directory> works23:35
MohammadAGdpkg-deb: subprocess tar -cf returned error exit status 123:35
mecetry z23:35
meceoh right.23:36
mecetar on maemo needs more magic than tar in other places for some reason.23:36
mecedifferent magic23:36
LuciusMare_what is wrong?23:37
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dima202esbox is such a pain in the ass.. couldn't you guys use something simpler?23:37
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/batt_charging_1_1.zip   batt_charging_1_1_FINAL.pdf   page.2023:38
DocScrutinizer3.923:38
DocScrutinizerResistive Detection Mechanism23:38
DocScrutinizerFor legacy Portable Devices that do not have the charger detection mechanism described in the previous23:38
DocScrutinizersections, it is possible to use resistors to detect the presence of a Dedicated Charging Port. However,23:38
DocScrutinizerdetection mechanisms using resistors are not recommended for new designs, for the following reasons:23:38
ShadowJKhm23:39
DocScrutinizeroops, sorry, 2 lines more than expected23:39
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, switching to pc23:39
MohammadAGbuh bye23:39
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: are you coming back? :P23:39
MohammadAGye23:39
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LuciusMare_^^23:40
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LuciusMare_MohammadAG: like a boomerang :P23:40
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: damn, if you need to lookup 5 of their documents a day, you probably won't get done anything really productive23:41
ShadowJKlol23:41
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DocScrutinizer30 minutes for that shit23:42
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LuciusMare_MohammadAG: so where are you putting it?23:42
DocScrutinizerand I had an idea for what to search23:42
LuciusMare_Sorry for being impatient23:43
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Macerok23:43
Macergot my n90023:43
Macernow to figure out how to get it to swap over to portrait mode upon rotating it23:44
Macer:/23:44
ShadowJKuh.23:45
meceomg packaging makes me want to kill myself!23:45
meceArrgh!23:45
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dima202:) grats mece23:45
meceall the guides make assumptions that don't match my source.23:45
dima202i got my n900 just 6 days ago23:46
MacerShadowJK: heh23:46
Maceri just got it like 10 minutes ago23:46
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Macerfedex just dropped it off23:46
mecewell you'll be pleased to know that Free Heroes 2 works quite nicely, but it's not packaged.23:46
Macerfree heroes?23:47
ShadowJKYou did know beforehand that only the phone app works in portrait mode, right23:47
meceheroes of might and magic 223:47
MacerShadowJK: no :)23:47
ShadowJK(and the browser, if you press ctrl-shift-o and close the keyboard and rotate it)23:47
Macerhey23:47
Macerthe dialer is in portrait mode23:47
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: this is a nice one: >>If there is a single failure within a device with a Charging Port, then the output voltage on VBUS shall not exceed VCHG_FAIL. A Portable Device is not required to operate or survive either of these voltages on its VBUS pin. However, these voltages shall not cause a Portable Device to fail in such a way as to harm the user.<< Basically says it's ok for a charger to kill the gadget when charger breaks23:47
MohammadAGLuciusMare_, wait a bit23:47
dima202Macer: not only phone app.. there aare a few apps which work in portrait mode23:47
Macerdima202: what about the desktop23:47
Macerit always stays in landscape?23:47
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, it's okay to kill the gadget but not the user? :)23:47
dima202Macer: yeah, for now23:48
ShadowJKs/for now//23:48
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dima202ShadowJK: I believe I read somewhere that they are working on desktop in portrait mode. please correct me if im mistaken23:49
Macerwell... :)23:49
Macerhopefully soon.. i just got it so let me mess with it23:49
ShadowJKdima202, I haven't heard anyone ever say that23:49
dima202Macer: Don't react to it like a phone.. It's a mini-computer that just so happends to be able to make calls =)23:49
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dima202ShadowJK: I'll try to find that refrence23:50
Macerdima202: i know23:50
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ShadowJKplease do :)23:50
Maceri used to have an n81023:50
LuciusMare_dima202: Waiter! There is a phone in my computer!23:50
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Macerso i think of it as a faster n810 with a 3G modem ;)23:50
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meceMacer, then you'll love it :)23:50
Macerlet's hope ;)23:51
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dima202http://kieters.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/how-to-force-the-nokia-n900-into-native-portrait-mode-guide-screenshots/23:51
dima202Macer: try this out23:51
dima202Macer: It's not a practical solution though23:53
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MohammadAGLuciusMare_, http://mohammadag.ucoz.com/maemo/suenabler_0.1-1_all.deb23:55
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MohammadAGnot responsible for anything that happens23:55
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dima202MohammadAG: without easy chroot appt installed couldn't you just do sudo su?23:55
MohammadAGpackage not tested btw23:56
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MohammadAGdima202, not on the N90023:58
MohammadAG<dima202> http://kieters.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/how-to-force-the-nokia-n900-into-native-portrait-mode-guide-screenshots/23:58
MohammadAG<dima202> Macer: try this out23:58
MohammadAGit's very sad that people copy what you originally find...23:58
LuciusMare_MohammadAG: i am forever in your debt23:59
dima202MohammadAG: I did add that it's not practical23:59

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