IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-04-15

GAN900question "App deployment"00:00
GAN900Another appstore question00:00
GAN900Individual app stores or global00:00
GAN900"Compliance test hosted by LF to use MeeGo brand"00:00
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GAN900App store is different question00:00
GAN900per-manufacturer appstore, it sounds like.00:01
nid0crazy tbh00:01
GAN900"It may change in the future, he doesn't know00:01
lcuktime for my app store store00:01
GAN900. and done00:01
lcukwho wants an app store?00:01
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GAN900Gonna rest my thumbs for the panel and prep for Imad later.00:01
Khertanlcuk : we can share one ...00:01
* GAN900 goes in for thumb surgery.00:02
Khertanlcuk : paypal paiement is already working00:02
lcukyou want an app store store too?00:02
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Stskeepswho's the guy on stage atm?00:02
DocScrutinizerGAN900: incredible! thanks a lot!00:02
javispedroJim Zemlim if the subtitle is to be believed.00:02
* Texrat taking donations for GAN900 thumb surgery. It will be open sourced00:02
Myrttiit is indeed00:02
Khertanthx GAN90000:02
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*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/"00:03
lcukTexrat, hes having meetings with nokia00:03
GAN900No problem!00:03
GAN900Thanks for reading. ;)00:03
lcukthey will take the pain away00:03
GAN900lwn recommendation00:03
javispedrowhere do you want the karma trucks? front of the house?00:03
* GAN900 plugs mwkn.net00:03
lcuk:) GAN900 nicely done00:03
lcukyou were a secretary in a previous life00:03
BCMM_thumb surgery?00:03
GAN900Hehe00:03
BCMM_lost the stylus and need smaller thumbs?00:04
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* Texrat taking applications for GAN900 thumb surgeon. Must be willing to televise and explain procedure00:04
GeneralAntilles1Wee00:04
GeneralAntilles1Exercise my other fingers now.00:04
* DocScrutinizer hands 'fastest N900 typer ever" award to GeneralAntilles100:04
GeneralAntilles1Guy beside me is staring at my OS X Mini 900:04
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n900-dkCould you guys explain to n00bs like me in few words, what was just going on?00:05
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lcukGeneralAntilles1, hes staring at your super thumbs00:05
* Texrat prepares to punish Generalantilles1 for netbook blasphemy00:05
BCMM_gah, it's me!00:05
BCMM_i must've started xchat00:05
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javispedroTexrat: bring in some ice for gan's thumbs00:05
javispedroi'm pretty sure one of those kernel kernel hackers will be able to do some surgery :)00:06
Texrathe's making fun of me for stylus use, but at least my stylus doesn't bitch00:06
DocScrutinizern900-dk: + other 'noobs' - gan900 was livetwittering from a talk00:06
GeneralAntilles1Christ00:06
GeneralAntilles1The freaking stylus00:06
GeneralAntilles1This aint the 77000:07
GeneralAntilles1tap tap tap00:07
Texrateat me, neighbor00:07
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles1: get a beer!00:07
lcukhe cant00:07
* javispedro envisions the scene and jiggles00:07
lcukneeds opposable thumbs to hold it00:07
GeneralAntilles1DocScrutinizer: open bar in 4 hours!!!00:07
DocScrutinizereeew00:07
GeneralAntilles1jiggles?00:07
GeneralAntilles1Gross.00:07
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n900-dkguess it wasn't a talk with his mum..00:08
Myrttipwuh00:08
GeneralAntilles1n900-dk: Ari Jaaksi talking about MeeGo at the Linux Foundation Summit in SF00:09
* Texrat looks forward to open bar00:09
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javispedroLG to join the Linux Foundation00:10
MohammadAGthe foundation is doomed :p00:11
GAN900Damn, red batt00:11
Proteousand cute/sad beeping00:11
TexratNokia needs the competition re LG00:11
DocScrutinizerGAN900: time for the spare :-)00:12
Myrttiwas there honey at the coffee service? I desperately need something antiseptic for my throat. These cough drops with benzocaine just numb...00:12
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X-FadeUgh. "Kernal developer" ;)00:12
X-FadeNice typo00:12
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TexratMyrtti I am so sorry I did not recognize you when you chewed me out for being antisocial00:13
* DocScrutinizer blinking anfrily at his LG TV with the abyssmal firmware00:13
DocScrutinizerangrily00:14
javispedroJames must have looked at GAN's mini 9 too.00:14
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DocScrutinizerTexrat: GAN900: pizza service? they deliver beverage as well00:15
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GeneralAntilles1Damn00:15
GeneralAntilles1Closed my netbook while changing batts00:15
DocScrutinizerhuuh?00:15
GeneralAntilles1Er00:15
GeneralAntilles1N900 batteries00:15
DocScrutinizeraah00:15
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DocScrutinizer:-(00:16
MyrttiTexrat: it happens at every geek community gettogether. Birds of  a Feather happens automatically00:16
Myrttipeople and their comfort zones, keeping company with people you already know00:16
GeneralAntilles1Bleh, N900 is frozen now00:16
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javispedrorsi selfprotection, it's forcing you to rest00:16
javispedronokia cares about us00:16
TexratMyrtti I do want to chat with you though00:17
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: lol00:17
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TexratI am not worried about comfort zones ;)00:17
GeneralAntilles1Because he's a creeper00:17
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: a whole new class of apps - rsi protection, reaction time tests with car ignition blocking...00:18
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* RST38h yawns and goes to sleep00:18
* Texrat jabs Generalantilles1 with stylus00:18
n900-dkHow many of you guys are at the summit in SF?00:18
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Texratall of us00:19
GeneralAntilles1About 8 or 1000:19
DocScrutinizerall, but only virtual ;-)00:19
javispedro3.00:19
MyrttiI can lend you my N800 kekekekeke00:19
DocScrutinizerthanks to rapid reporter GAN90000:19
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GeneralAntilles1If anybody has any issues they want me to bug people about at the workshop tomorrow. . . .00:20
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: that's been an int or an emoticon?00:21
javispedroa lie.00:21
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: naa, we prefer you to keep on ircing everything your eyes see >:)00:21
GeneralAntilles1kernel discussion00:22
GeneralAntilles1To lazy00:22
GeneralAntilles1Too00:22
Khertanhihi with oc ?00:22
javispedroyeah yeah forget about kernel00:22
javispedrorest00:22
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles1: anyway keep in mind we by no means want any blobs on meego00:22
GeneralAntilles1It's goddamn hot in here00:22
GeneralAntilles1They need to turn on the AC00:22
GeneralAntilles1Too many overclocked N900s in the room. . . .00:23
DocScrutinizerlol00:23
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DocScrutinizer"No Sir, that's not been a cigarette"00:23
javispedroclearly, the discussion's very hot00:23
GeneralAntilles1"I'm not ducking work. I'm giving other people an opportunity to come into the community"00:23
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GeneralAntilles1rpm vs deb!!!!!00:23
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Texrathow can I sit next to generalantilles1 and be in a different weather zone?00:24
X-FadeHey is Jamie there too?00:24
DocScrutinizerI am community. You're welcome to join me?!00:24
GeneralAntilles1X-Fade, haven't seen him00:24
GeneralAntilles1Henri is sitting in front of me00:24
javispedroif we ever implement a karma donating system, and somebody shoots .deb rules!! out loud I will give him all my tmo posts karma </lie>00:24
GeneralAntilles1Myrtti's a few rows back00:25
X-FadeThought I spotted him in the audience.00:25
GeneralAntilles1dneary is floating around somewhere00:25
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DocScrutinizerrulez!00:25
DocScrutinizerwith capital Z00:25
DocScrutinizer:-P00:25
Texratsomeone said rpm? drink!00:26
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DocScrutinizersounds like 'Life of Brian'00:27
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javispedrowhere to bang in the kernel with a hammer is $99900:28
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* DocScrutinizer considers to do some 'real work' and prepare a paper for stskeeps00:29
Texratwe old farts have value!!!!!00:29
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DocScrutinizeranyway something's wrong with my workplace ergonomy. Foot soles shouldn't be higher than keyboard00:31
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n900-dkSounds like a perfect workplace :)00:33
DocScrutinizermaybe I could licence this to Guantanamo00:33
javispedroaha, he must be a university professor00:34
BCMM_anybody know what the other applet in this screenshots is? http://maemocentral.com/2009/12/15/how-to-turn-your-n900-into-a-flashlight/00:34
X-FadeYeah, typical ;)00:35
BCMM_or indeed if there is a GUI way to take photos from the front webcam?00:35
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: which one?00:36
DocScrutinizerother applet?00:36
BCMM_DocScrutinizer: the first00:36
DocScrutinizerthere are several00:36
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BCMM_the one above flashlight in the first screenshot00:37
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BCMM_with a picture of a camera and a webcam00:37
BCMM_was wondering if they represented the two cameras in the n90000:37
DocScrutinizerthe two small ones are from load applet and create screenshot (right) and allegedly screen stream or sth00:37
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DocScrutinizerno cams, both a different flavours of screenshot utilities00:38
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javispedrohe just told him to go fix it himself :)00:38
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Texratn900 battery at 50%... time to leave internet00:39
DocScrutinizerwebcam never worked for me. screenshot became obsolete with ctrl-p00:39
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BCMM_DocScrutinizer: ah; thanks00:39
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tremnite all, sweet dreams00:39
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DocScrutinizerBCMM_: ""webcam"" which is actually supposed to create a videoclip of your screen in action00:40
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solrizen900's have suddenly gotten more expensive :(00:41
DocScrutinizerand in fact it creates a video file somewhere, alas it's always been empty or black for me00:41
DocScrutinizersolrize: WHAT??00:41
GeneralAntilles1clapping for Android00:41
GeneralAntilles1booo00:41
solrizedoc, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1687520517800:42
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles1: please invite them here, so I can kickban them ;-P00:42
javispedrodo it loudly, preferably00:42
solrizei think they were almost $100 lower a few weeks ago00:43
javispedrothey promised us some kernel developers would talk. who are all those kernal [sic] developers?00:43
GeneralAntilles1James Bottomley, Novell00:43
GeneralAntilles1Jon Corbet, LWN.net00:43
javispedroGeneralAntilles: no need00:44
GeneralAntilles1Christoph Hellwig00:44
solrizehttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49400   hmm, looks like there was a shortage00:44
javispedrojust joking about the subtitles00:44
GeneralAntilles1Ah00:44
GeneralAntilles1OK00:44
javispedrowhich actually say "Kernal" :)00:44
* GeneralAntilles1 is tired and helpful! ;)00:44
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: relax those fingers!00:44
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javispedrolol.00:44
GAN800Wee, purty cloak00:44
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X-FadeHehe :)00:45
GAN800Only about 2 years later!00:45
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X-FadeGAN800: Ssssssh!00:45
X-FadeSome people do real work, you know :)00:46
solrize"I ordered one from Dell USA s they lowered the price to 440USD+tax . I thought Nokia may release an upgrade for N900 on the 13thApril."   (from that thread)00:46
Myrttijuice box time00:46
GAN800X-Fade, who, Freenode?00:46
GAN800:P00:46
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javispedrohah, GAN wasn't clapping!00:46
MohammadAGGAN = General Antilles, wow, that took me time00:46
DocScrutinizer-8heh GAN80000:46
solrizeso, symbian is open source now, right?  does that mean if i get an e63, i can program it?00:46
MohammadAG(a lot of it XD)00:46
GAN800javispedro: kernel sucks!00:46
GAN800solrize: no00:47
MohammadAGsolrize, there are custom ROMs, but it's not the open source symbian on the E6300:47
solrizeic, thanks00:47
MohammadAGwhich is Symbian^300:47
solrizethere are very cheap e63's on newegg now00:47
GAN800Imad is up00:47
solrizeseems like a generally nice phone00:47
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javispedrook. LOL.00:48
javispedroApple should hire the guys who writes the titles00:49
Myrttiuhoh.00:50
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GAN800Chart showing company kernel contribution by version00:50
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GAN800Nokia is #500:50
GAN800Intel is #200:50
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GAN800Big Oracle spike at 2.6.2900:51
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GAN800Works takes place upstream yadda yadda yadda00:51
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javispedromeego!00:54
javispedroMeeGo, the best of Mobling and Maemo, fully open source software platform, Common set of APIs across devices00:54
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ptlditching deb for rpm,...00:55
GAN800If you want a transcript of this talk, refer to my notes from Ari's talk earlier.00:55
javispedroer.... Moblin :)00:55
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Myrttier. what are these people in a row before me doing? they're rocking themselves back and forth...00:57
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Myrttiit's not *THAT* boring talk!00:57
GAN800lol00:57
SpeedEvilfa00:57
SpeedEviltyping00:57
Myrtti(also using Windows XP, IE6 and Outlook)00:57
GAN800Myrtti: hit them.00:58
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DocScrutinizernow for real F**K-YOU - how would I cancel a LF registration?01:00
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DocScrutinizerQty 1, Item: livestream - 0$, place in cart and fill form about maiden name of your grandma01:01
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DocScrutinizer~lart videostreaming webmaster of LF01:02
* infobot says "boot to the head" and knocks videostreaming webmaster of LF over01:02
GAN800Fast Boot — how to make x86 not suck so much for mobile use01:03
javispedrowhat has x86 do with boot time? :)01:03
DocScrutinizernot that much01:04
javispedroyeah, ms-dos boots in, like, a nanosecond.01:04
GAN800javispedro: well, setting aside Maemo 5's crippling fail with long uptimes, x86 needs fast bootin/shutdown to save power. :P01:04
DocScrutinizerand x86 sucks on mobile use no matter what01:04
GAN800Well, that01:04
GAN800Forgot the sarcasm tags. ;)01:05
javispedrotouché.01:05
GAN800They dropped 10 from the version01:05
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* ShadowJK wonders how fast swap to local nbd server deadlocks :D01:06
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DocScrutinizerGAN800: what's been your internet while twittering? wlan? 3G?01:07
GAN800WLAN01:08
GAN800+1 second ping time01:08
DocScrutinizeryeah01:08
GAN800lol01:08
GAN800good question01:08
GAN800Here comes the brand fscking confusion01:08
DocScrutinizerwondered how you'd manage to type the '2nd' line in less than 1sec01:08
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X-FadeWho is that guy?01:09
GAN800No idea01:09
GAN800I'm all the way across the room01:09
X-FadeHe knows his stuff at least ;)01:09
ShadowJKis this recorded for later viewing?01:09
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GAN800(front left, 4th row, middle)01:09
GAN800ShadowJK: was last year01:09
DocScrutinizerGAN800: so make that more like 5..10sec ping worst case01:09
javispedrohah01:10
javispedroI love that g uy01:10
* ShadowJK is happy his operator fixed 2g, now I can probably stream music all night :D01:10
javispedropoke him so that he asks about .deb01:10
GAN800Haha01:10
nid0why're they fixating on skype and flash instead of just saying "gsm drivers will stay closed"01:10
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: hooray01:10
GAN800nid0: because they wont?01:11
GAN800See oFono01:11
GAN800Well, sort of01:11
X-Fadeofono still needs the closed drivers :)01:11
DocScrutinizergsm stack will keep closed for a loooong time01:11
ShadowJK128kbit AAC fits nicely in EDGE :)01:11
javispedroyes, he should have ran out of the room01:12
DocScrutinizerI'd be happy with a full fledged 3GPP AT interface though01:12
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DocScrutinizerpnatd is kinda crappy wrt that01:13
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X-FadeOk, time to go to sleep. Long day.01:14
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javispedroyeah, gnite.01:14
X-FadeI'll see the fallout tomorrow ;)01:14
DocScrutinizern8 X-Fade01:14
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SpeedEvilFirst rule of fallout - run at 90 degrees to wind direction.01:15
DocScrutinizerhmmm01:16
DocScrutinizerpondering that advice01:16
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DocScrutinizerseems like running away under the rain01:16
DocScrutinizerwell maybe with a car, and sufficient distance to ground zero01:17
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BCMM_where on earth is "Video clips" on the real filesystem?01:19
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SpeedEvil /home/user/MyDocs/.videos/01:19
DocScrutinizerin some friggin hidden directory01:19
BCMM_(i've made a nice little video, 10x10 white pixels by one frame, and left it there)01:19
BCMM_(going to replace the hands bootup video)01:19
BCMM_mine has no sound...01:20
DocScrutinizeroooooh01:20
BCMM_thanks, didn't think of hidden directories01:20
SpeedEvilWell - some videos take quite little cpu to play01:20
BCMM_unless of course there is some "start up silently" option somewhere01:20
SpeedEvilSo there may be almost no effect on boottime of doing that01:20
BCMM_SpeedEvil: it's the noisemaking that bothers me01:21
SpeedEvilthe video is kicked off in /etc/*01:21
SpeedEvilah01:21
BCMM_well, bootup is almost all diskbound on machines with disks01:21
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DocScrutinizera lot of people attribute all kinds of  negative notions to this particular video01:21
BCMM_maybe with a 600mhz processor and an SSD that isn't so01:21
SpeedEvilBCMM_: quite fast disk - it goes at 13M/s read or so01:21
BCMM_i don't mind it, i just don't want it making any noises till i've had a chance to mute it01:22
BCMM_so the machine definitely isn't waiting for the video then?01:22
DocScrutinizernope, probably not01:22
BCMM_i presumed not01:22
BCMM_hmm01:22
n900-dkBCMM_: you can disable the video01:22
BCMM_n900-dk: how?01:23
DocScrutinizernevertheless it's taking up time to setup the DSP for playback, and it's ugly and eats battery XP01:23
BCMM_at some point i might make a copy of the hands video and strip out the sound01:23
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DocScrutinizermake a 'DONT PANIC' video :-D01:24
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DocScrutinizerin big friendly letters01:24
BCMM_DocScrutinizer: that is a very brilliant idea01:24
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BCMM_i wonder if there is a lower frame-rate limit on that video01:25
DocScrutinizerI know ;-P They appreciated it for OM Freerunner01:25
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BCMM_or whether i could just have a tiny video consisting of two identical "don't panic" frames at 0.2fps01:25
BCMM_DocScrutinizer: eh?01:25
DocScrutinizerhttp://people.openmoko.org/joerg/bootsplash/dont-panic.splash01:26
DocScrutinizeroccasionally I recycle my own ideas XP01:27
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n900-dkBCMM_: The app Powatool will do it for you01:28
DocScrutinizerhttp://people.openmoko.org/joerg/bootsplash/readme01:29
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DocScrutinizerBCMM_: (framerate) anyway for a static content the diff-frames are next to 0, so framerate doesn't matter so much01:35
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BCMM_hmm just ned to make it landscape01:37
DocScrutinizerheh, evacuate Finland, Volacno attack ;-P01:37
BCMM_how did you do that glowing effect?01:37
DocScrutinizerthe artwork has been done by dos101:37
DocScrutinizer/join #openmoko-cdevel and ping him01:37
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BCMM_hmm01:38
BCMM_i'm trying to find a scan of the book cover01:38
BCMM_i'm sure there was an edition that actually had big friendly letters01:38
BCMM_maybe on the back01:38
BCMM_i don't know which book01:38
DocScrutinizeractually the png is much better than the book cover (YMMV)01:38
BCMM_the one i'm thinking of had kinda rounded multicoloured ones i think01:39
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BCMM_what is the n900 screen res again?01:41
till-800x48001:42
lbtwhat's that calendar/PIM suite for Maemo called?01:43
lbtnm  GPE...01:44
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ptlBCMM_: 800x480, 16 bits color depth01:49
MyrttiI wouldn't mind if they'd kill the music, it is so much harder to overhear interesting discussions now01:49
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdUwlSwifHw&feature=related 0:45  ..  1:50!!01:50
MyrttiI have a feeling I've seen this talk before01:51
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: HTH. :-) Don't forget to give proper credit (to me for the idea ;-P)01:53
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odin_Hmm OVI store app on E72 is really broken for me, we thought Maemo was bad but02:00
ShadowJK:)02:01
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jd4200Am I able to change the user name (on my n900) so when I load x-term it does something other than user (any harm in doing so?)02:02
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jd4200**shows02:02
odin_yeah maybe thats somethign to lodge a "personalization" process of renaming the "user" account02:03
DocScrutinizernoooo dont!!02:03
odin_but sure you can setup another user, but I don't think renaming it would be wise02:03
DocScrutinizeruser is hardcoded to several apps02:03
odin_several "broken" apps !02:03
jd4200DocScrutinizer: Ah, that could be why my N900 failed to boot and I had to do a reflash02:04
DocScrutinizerthe right way would be to 'adduser', the 'su -l newusername'02:04
odin_well adduser is not good either02:04
jd4200How about changing the root password, anyharm in doing so with that?02:04
DocScrutinizerno, perfectly safe02:04
odin_it should be an advanced personalization matter02:04
odin_if apps want to hardcode something, then sure hardcode the userid number and do a lookup02:05
GAN900I could watch that air traffic animation all day.02:06
DocScrutinizerodin_: yesyesyes02:06
DocScrutinizertell to Nokia02:06
Myrttime too02:06
SpeedEvilI want multiple accounts too.02:06
MohammadAGI only want root (muhahahaha)02:06
DocScrutinizerI want xdm02:06
SpeedEvilSo I can give a friend my n900 to play games on without them seeing my plans for world dominoation.02:07
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: exactly02:07
jd4200One other thing, is there a way for when I load x-term is uses bash as the shell? (I miss my .bashrc :( )02:07
* MohammadAG hates how wildcards don't work with killall02:08
MohammadAGI wanted to killall *02:08
SpeedEvilkill 102:08
SpeedEvilkill -9 102:08
odin_yeah... like profiles for different times of day.... one profile for when you are with the mistress... and another for the wife....02:08
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MohammadAG    1 root      1620 S    /sbin/init02:08
* MohammadAG likes that02:09
odin_complete with their own galleries/contact-lists etc...02:09
MohammadAGit doesn't die lol02:09
odin_infact useful for when you have two wives....02:09
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MohammadAGodin_, or three!02:09
odin_why yes... you have a whole 32bit user-id space to work through !02:10
SpeedEvilThat's about to fail soon.02:11
SpeedEvilMore than 4 billion females on planet.02:11
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radic_someone the woh wahnt the endsieg02:18
radic_?02:18
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odin_OVI store is a joke02:19
DocScrutinizerhmmpf, I fail to find sizeof(uid_t)02:19
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odin_its taken me 5 goes to get E72 logged in I browse, pick something, them asked to login again to download02:20
odin_now it doesn't accept my details02:20
DocScrutinizerregarding the fact even process ID is 0..2^1502:20
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DocScrutinizeri dont think uid has a 32bit02:21
odin_the nagivation is all wonky, the text input cursor does not follow the highlighted focus part02:21
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odin_yes there are 32bit UIDs02:21
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GAN900Preventing community02:23
GAN900load the stream!02:23
DocScrutinizerhuh?02:23
GAN900good talk02:23
odin_maybe not veyr relevant to Maemo but Kernel has CONFIG_UID16 option to disable 32bit UIDs02:23
DocScrutinizerodin_: I'd be surprised this isn't set for maemo02:24
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Treibholzyeah! I just imported the first calendars via CalDAV! :-)02:24
odin_even 64bit IA32 Fedora has 16bit UIDs, its just an option that is possible with Linux02:24
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DocScrutinizerso what's been wrong with >>[2010-04-15 01:21:14] <DocScrutinizer> i dont think uid has a 32bit<< then?02:25
GAN900community growth causes global warming02:25
DocScrutinizerfine! much too frosty here02:26
odin_well 32bit is the maximum, if you want 32bit UIDs you just recompile02:26
odin_(the kernel) all the userspace syscalls are already 32bit wide, that pain is over02:26
DocScrutinizerso what? I never said I want 32bit UID02:26
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odin_no you claimed "i dont think uid has a 32bit" and that is untrue.... "yes it is POSSIBLE to have a 32bit uid" its more a configuration preference than anything major02:27
DocScrutinizermy point was more like "you can't have users for >32k women on N900"02:28
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odin_I never commented on the matter of "what you want" or "your needs" just on your claim02:28
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DocScrutinizerhmm, you make me wonder if I'm starting to brainfail, or it's just you02:29
* odin_ takes a look at N900 p0rn collection ....02:29
* odin_ thinks there are more than 32k women there....02:29
* odin_ scratches head02:29
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* odin_ hopes for 48Gb of eMMC in the next one ... grins02:30
* SpeedEvil hopes for 0GB of eMMC in the next one.02:30
SpeedEvil(and a second SD slot)02:31
odin_yeah I'd be all for all storage to be replaceable like that scheme, but I'm not for using OneNAND as rootfs02:31
odin_OneNAND for journal/2nd-level-buffer-cache with rootfs on MMC02:32
odin_also swap-cache, make it a storage/IO resource and find a way to make it take all the write hit and provide faster reads for the data you really want to get at fast, but not for tiny rootfs brokeness02:33
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zasha generetic copy-on-read fs!02:34
odin_there is nothing wrong with have block from MMC copied/shadowed into OneNAND for faster access, having the MMC filesystem journal entirely on OneNAND, interfacing the swap file with OneNAND02:34
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odin_well it also has a high-write-counter property doesn't it ?02:35
* Arkenoi hopes widgets will stop crashing alltogether with PR1.202:36
odin_so thats good for swap and EXT3 journal, there is no need for the EXT3 journal to sync every 30 seconds it can do it one an hour on an idle device, in that time you can eat all the writes02:36
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Arkenoithe most annoying thing with the crash is that crashed state get saved and you cannot get it all back with simple reboot02:36
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odin_yeah I've had some widget oddness before now02:37
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odin_also when you reboot the X11 display should contain a shuting down progress indicator and it should kill the widgets and apps before the X11 server02:37
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: it's highly unlikely though that widget crash is related to OS version directly02:38
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Arkenoiwell, maybe not OS version but desktop gets updated as well02:39
DocScrutinizera crashing widget is a process with a bug. That bug won't probably be fixed after a mere PR1.2 update02:40
MohammadAGwidget crashes happen here too02:40
MohammadAGbut not very often02:40
MohammadAGmaybe once every two months02:40
MohammadAGor twice every four months :P02:40
odin_yep OVI store wont let me download jack, even through I can sign-in02:40
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, kick yourself, you said PR1.2 :P02:41
DocScrutinizerto fix a ceashing widget you prolly want to update the widget, not the OS or display manager02:41
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you'd actually break my expectations when not uttering this comment ;-)02:42
Arkenoicrash takes them away by bunches, not by one02:42
DocScrutinizeror short: I knew you'd say that02:42
MohammadAG:)02:42
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* MohammadAG does a /cs op :P02:43
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MohammadAGlike it works anyways :p02:43
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Arkenoisay, after a crash i see that some widgets are vanished: conversation inbox, foreca weather, recorder, ussd, command execution and dataplan monitor. media player and calendar may remain meanwhile.02:43
MohammadAGeverything about the new macbook pros is excellent... except...02:44
MohammadAG$2,199.02:44
TreibholzMohammadAG: and the Operating-System.02:44
MohammadAGindeed02:44
MohammadAGI think we can all say Windows and Mac OS X suck :)02:45
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: so if you actually knew the sequence all the widgets are processed in one thread, you could spot the one that blew chunks and spoiled it for the remaining widgets02:45
TreibholzMohammadAG: Linux sucks too, it just sucks less.02:45
MohammadAGTreibholz, err..02:46
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: it's either the last one that made it on the screen, or the first one missing02:46
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Arkenoiwell, how can i know the order?02:47
godrikMohammadAG ++02:47
DocScrutinizerhmm, good question02:47
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* Arkenoi does not like Apple LCD displays02:48
Arkenoilow DPI02:48
Arkenoiand touchpads02:48
Arkenoiactually i do not like touchpads at all, ibm/hp clitoris is much better02:49
MohammadAGerr02:49
MohammadAGyou sure about that word?02:49
godrikArkenoi: I agree, clitoris are great!02:49
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Arkenoiwell, it is officially named differently but i forgot the word02:50
Arkenoitouch-something02:50
* DocScrutinizer cackles02:50
Arkenoior track-something02:50
DocScrutinizerG-point02:50
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MohammadAGLOL02:50
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* MohammadAG wonders what google would call a hotspot service, if they made one02:51
godrikWell, it's actually next to G on most keyboards02:51
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MohammadAGthat thing sucks02:51
MohammadAGI have 3 input devices alread02:52
MohammadAGy02:52
MohammadAGa G point would just make them 402:52
Arkenoiwell, the screen issue does matter more for me. i want decent resolution and dpi, which means 1900x1200 for 15"02:52
MohammadAGmy screen is 1024x76802:52
MohammadAGxD02:52
* satmd would call his gf a 'device'02:53
satmd+not02:53
* Arkenoi lol02:53
DocScrutinizersome blog about fitt's outlaw called trackpoint a torture instrument02:53
godriksatmd: depend whether she is robotic or not :)02:53
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* satmd doesn't even call his bot chii like that02:54
* MohammadAG wants an N81002:54
DocScrutinizerbots are frequently female it seems02:55
DocScrutinizer~ignore DocScrutinizer-802:55
* infobot sticks her fingers in her ears. "La, la, la! I can't hear you, DocScrutinizer-8!"02:55
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satmdand they include an off button02:57
satmdusually02:57
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lcuksomeone just used mbarcode03:03
lcukto see chris dibona's 2d03:03
lcuk(collaboration summit)03:04
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* Arkenoi wishes mbarcode and flashlight will block internal camera app from launching someday03:04
Arkenoiit is *really* annoying and makes android users laugh03:04
* SpeedEvil wishes flashlight is orthoganol to camera.03:04
SpeedEvilWith an alternate way to turn it on that does not use v4l03:05
lcuki wish mbarcode just used the recent photos list03:05
lcukso use the normal camera app and all its niceness03:05
lcukflashlight should be in the camera app itself03:05
Arkenoivirtual "share" plugin that will look for barcodes?03:06
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (alt. way for LED) sysfs node - once more03:19
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DocScrutinizerad for flashlight to be a part of cam-app I think those LEDs as much related to the camera as the uSD slot is03:22
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GAN900Wow03:22
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GAN900free Nexus One03:23
DocScrutinizerI.E. two distincr subsystems just incidentally cooperating on particular tasks03:23
GAN900Will it Blend?!03:23
DocScrutinizerhehe03:24
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DocScrutinizer(flashlight/torch a subfunction of cam-app) in fact it's highly undesirable to crank up the powerhog camchip just for a torch function03:27
ShadowJKI guess you need to look in the driver whether cam chip gets powered up?03:29
DocScrutinizerif torch was a reasonable subfunction of camera, then audio recorder was as well. And we end in iPhone madness03:30
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ShadowJKSpeaking of madness, the "no portable software, please" ban amuses me03:31
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I dunno for the driver, but I know the flashlight LEDs have a dedicated controller chip unrelated to the cam chip. So they're no different to e.g. LCD backlight or indicator & kbd light03:31
ShadowJKyeah03:32
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DocScrutinizerand they deserve a decent *../leds/flashlight/* set of sysfs nodes03:33
DocScrutinizer(ban) err, what's the issue? iPhone? never heard of03:34
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DocScrutinizer(the ban)03:34
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ShadowJKbasically 3d engines, portability libraries and stuff like that are banned now03:35
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odin_I have no idea what goes on in iPhone world03:36
odin_who is banning via what punishment?03:36
ShadowJKApps must be native iphone apps written solely for iphone, no "adaptation layers"03:36
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odin_ah that 'ol route to world domination03:37
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nezI for one welcome our new overlords03:37
odin_yes they can inherit their hell03:37
lcukhow come they just let a browser through which runs javascript (however limited) and renders html03:38
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lcukthats an adoption layer03:38
nezopera mini runs the javascript on the remote server?03:38
ShadowJKdid they let through opera mini?03:39
nezyes03:39
nezShadowJK: you're referring to apple, correct?03:39
ShadowJKyeah03:39
nezmhmm03:39
nezit's currently the #1 app in the store right now03:40
nez...and to think my good old N800 had Opera on it03:40
ShadowJKthat's another thing I guess, ad-hoc enforcement of their own rules, and making up new ones on the fly and only applying them to specific apps :)03:40
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DocScrutinizerotherwise you would lose respect and fear of the overloards03:42
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DocScrutinizerkeep acting unpredictable, otherwise others will predict what you do and you lose your advantage03:43
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DocScrutinizerespecially I seem to remember browsers were one of the application classes explicitly prohibited for appstore03:44
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MaceG1Weird04:09
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opdf2they need to let adobe in04:31
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bjvHow do you set the tablets X key repeat delay?04:56
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bjvVNC is sucking, and i bet repeat delay is set to like 250ms04:56
bjvhm,  xset770 is apparently a thing05:01
bjvi dont want to set ~individual keys for no-repeat though..05:04
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opdf2lol just realized there was an ovi store06:03
opdf2i dont like that ovi isnt included in app man06:03
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crashanddie~action06:18
* infobot forgets what action did.06:18
crashanddie~cut06:18
crashanddie~scope06:18
crashanddie~answer06:18
infobot4206:18
crashanddie~thanks06:19
infobotsure thing, crashanddie06:19
crashanddie~whoami06:19
infobotyou are crashanddie, or ~cb09b989@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie on #maemo and it's 2010.04.15. Don't believe me? Ask lpotter!06:19
crashanddielpotter: are you sure?06:19
crashanddie~ask me something06:19
crashanddie~bored06:20
infobotLa ... lalalala ... beer!06:20
crashanddie~beer?06:20
* infobot has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))06:20
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crashanddie~nice06:20
infoboti heard nice is prime example of SuperJuan, or a good term for GNOME a derogatory term meaning bland, boring, feeble, or just crap. Example: That's a nice haircut. a city in france, or a program that will run a program with a modified scheduling priority (from -20 to 19, where 19 is the lowest).06:20
crashanddie~joke06:20
infobotA bhuddist monk goes to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything!"06:20
crashanddie~hitme06:21
crashanddie~lobotomy06:22
infobotI feel different somehow.06:22
crashanddie~lobotomy GeneralAntilles06:22
* infobot pulls out a rusty saw to perform a lobotomy on GeneralAntilles06:22
crashanddie~awesome06:22
infobotawesome is, like, a synonym of cheese.06:22
crashanddie~cheese06:22
infobotfrom memory, cheese is pure awesomesause.  I love cheese.06:22
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crashanddie~awesomesause06:23
crashanddie~qotd06:23
infobotsomebody said qotd was "Documention is like sex: when it is good, it is very, very good; and when it is bad, it is better than nothing."06:23
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crashanddie~fact06:26
infobotAn automated system for managing small snippets of information.. URL: http://projects.ticons.com.au/fact/06:26
crashanddie~trivia06:26
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opdf2anyone using recaller? updated it now its...06:27
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DocScrutinizer~literal lobotomy06:49
infobot"lobotomy" is "<reply> I feel different somehow."06:49
DocScrutinizer~literal lobotomy x06:49
* infobot pulls out a rusty saw to perform a lobotomy on x06:49
DocScrutinizerploymorphism, nice :-)06:50
DocScrutinizer~literal "lobotomy x"06:50
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DocScrutinizerlistkeys lobotomy06:53
DocScrutinizer~listkeys lobotomy06:54
infobotFactoid search of 'lobotomy' by key (3): jargon lobotomy ;; lobotomy ;; cmd: lobotomy (.*?).06:54
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slingrok07:17
slingrso when i got my phone a couple weeks ago I knew it had two previous owners.  now that i'm getting to know my phone more i'm finding a lot of their left overs. so i guess what i'm wondering is if there is an easy way to send my phone back to complete virgin or something similar07:18
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DocScrutinizer~botsnack07:25
infobotaw, gee, DocScrutinizer07:25
crashanddie~listkeys DocScrutinizer07:27
infobotFactoid search of 'DocScrutinizer' by key (2): docscrutinizer ;; docscrutinizer #DEL#.07:27
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DocScrutinizer~listvalues docscrutinizer07:28
infobotFactoid search of 'docscrutinizer' by value (3): joerg #DEL# ;; debubo ;; joerg.07:28
crashanddie~DocScrutinizer07:28
infobotfrom memory, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko07:28
opdf2wow it is crazy how much cpu and battery AP news takes07:28
DocScrutinizer~upsidedown Why did you die when I told you 'upsidedown' last time?07:29
DocScrutinizer~ping07:29
infobot~pong07:29
crashanddie~upsidedown07:29
crashanddie~coincidence07:29
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crashanddie~rambo07:29
crashanddie~freenode07:29
infobothttp://freenode.net/, or the bomb. where you are, man.07:29
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crashanddie~forget about DocScrutinizer07:30
infobotcrashanddie: i didn't have anything called 'about docscrutinizer' to forget07:30
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: do you want thyself removeth from infobot ?07:30
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: do you want thyself removeth from infobot ?07:31
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DocScrutinizerwhy?07:33
DocScrutinizerinfobot won't forget me   <307:34
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DocScrutinizertry if you don't believe :-P07:36
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: c'mon07:39
crashanddie~forget DocScrutinizer07:39
infobotcannot alter locked factoids, crashanddie07:39
crashanddielmao07:39
crashanddie~unlock DocScrutinizer07:39
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crashanddie~requestunlock DocScrutinizer07:39
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crashanddieinfobot: you should listen to me07:45
*** ChanServ sets mode: -v infobot07:45
crashanddieNO VOICE FOR YOU!07:45
slonopotamuso_O07:45
slonopotamuscrashanddie: you can stop him talking, but you can't change his mind :)07:46
crashanddie~talk07:46
crashanddie~say something07:46
infobotsomething07:47
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slonopotamusinfobot: surrender07:48
infobotit has been said that surrender is when one ceases to fight back for what one believes in and gives up hope07:48
crashanddie~war07:48
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, war is the reasonable response of a nation forced to turn to the rest of the world for valuable energy resources but not wanting to deal fairly in an open marketplace with truly equal players07:48
slonopotamusmeh07:48
slonopotamusquick, anyone has glib commit access? :) fix a bug07:49
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crashanddieslonopotamus: DIE07:49
crashanddiewoops07:49
crashanddieinfobot: DIE07:49
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.07:49
DocScrutinizer~scramble crashanddie07:49
infobotcddiasrnahe07:49
* slonopotamus takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.07:49
crashanddie~scramble DocScrutinizer07:49
infobotDioczctnSueirr07:49
crashanddielol slonopotamus07:49
crashanddie~scramble 13WAAOONI07:50
infobot1NAWOA3OI07:50
crashanddiedoesn't make any more sense07:50
crashanddie~rot13 DocScrutinizer07:50
infobotQbpFpehgvavmre07:50
DocScrutinizer~rot13 QbpFpehgvavmre07:50
infobotDocScrutinizer07:50
crashanddieit would be nice if we had an infobot on the n90007:51
crashanddiewith voice recognition07:51
DocScrutinizer~stats07:51
infobotSince Tue Apr 13 05:37:01 2010, there have been 25 modifications, 123 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 94 commands.  I have been awake for 1d 23h 14m 36s this session, and currently reference 116951 factoids.  I'm using about 21308 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 5154.73/158.47 child 0.09/0.0307:51
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crashanddie~reset07:51
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, reset is not influencing the message about the kernel on hyper terminal07:52
crashanddie~maemo07:52
infobotmaemo is, like, http://maemo.nokia.com/ http://maemo.org/ http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Device_Platforms/Maemo.xhtml07:52
crashanddie~ipad07:52
infobotIntelligent vector drawing package. URL: http://www.demon.co.uk/titan/, or a new gadget released by Apple, and agreed by most geeks to be a failwhale, even though it sold 300,000 units on its first day.07:52
crashanddiehehehe07:52
crashanddie~ipod07:52
infobotmethinks ipod is a purty silver and white box, or deffinitly not bigger then a bread box.07:52
crashanddie~deffintly07:53
crashanddie~gmaps moncul07:53
crashanddie~map moncul07:53
crashanddie~draw square07:53
crashanddie~bored07:53
infobotLa ... lalalala ... beer!07:53
crashanddie~joke07:54
infobotA bhuddist monk goes to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything!"07:54
crashanddie~joke07:54
DocScrutinizerhttp://infobot.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/infobot/trunk/files/infobot.help07:55
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DocScrutinizer~tell crashanddie about irc /query07:55
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crashanddie~do #maemo ban DocScrutinizer07:57
* infobot does #maemo ban DocScrutinizer.07:57
crashanddie~facepalm07:57
* infobot facepalms at the situation07:57
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DocScrutinizerLOL07:57
crashanddie~factinfo DocScrutinizer07:58
infobotdocscrutinizer -- created by DocScrutinizer <n=jr-N810@p5493F5D9.dip.t-dialin.net> at Thu Oct 23 11:54:37 2008 (538 days); it has been requested 23 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 19m 49s ago; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer.07:58
crashanddiehow the fuck did you lock it?07:58
crashanddie~factinfo ipad07:58
infobotipad -- last modified at Tue Apr  6 02:19:43 2010 by crashanddie!~cb09b989@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie; it has been requested 5 times, last by crashanddie, 6m 9s ago.07:58
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crashanddie~scamble lcuk08:03
crashanddie~scramble lcuk08:03
infobotluck08:03
crashanddieyay \o/08:03
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DocScrutinizer~scramble luck08:06
infobotlcuk08:06
DocScrutinizerhehehe08:06
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DocScrutinizer~lcuk is <reply>lcuk is, like luck spelled backwards, or a lucky guy08:07
infobot...but lcuk is already something else...08:07
DocScrutinizer~lcuk08:08
infoboti guess lcuk is a tosser08:08
DocScrutinizer~factinfo lcuk08:08
infobotlcuk -- created by qwerty12_N810 <n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk> at Mon Aug 31 21:54:33 2009 (226 days); it has been requested once, last by DocScrutinizer, 17s ago.08:08
DocScrutinizer~no, lcuk is <reply>lcuk is, like luck spelled backwards, or a lucky guy08:09
crashanddie~no, lcuk is a mighty good developer, best known for his work on liqbase and helping Nokia with the Identity project during the onedotzero event in London.08:09
crashanddie~no lcuk is a mighty good developer, best known for his work on liqbase and helping Nokia with the Identity project during the onedotzero event in London.08:09
infobotokay, crashanddie08:09
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DocScrutinizer~lcuk08:10
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, lcuk is a mighty good developer, best known for his work on liqbase and helping Nokia with the Identity project during the onedotzero event in London.08:10
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opdf2anyway to delete tags under a sharing service?08:15
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crashanddieDamn08:54
crashanddieandrewfblack has a virus08:54
Stskeepshm?08:55
crashanddiehe's sending spam to the meego-community mailing lists08:57
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Stskeepsah, i see08:57
Stskeepsor it got hacked08:57
oscillikoops08:57
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Khertanyep09:09
Khertanalso send  me email privatly09:09
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TigerTaelnice09:11
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mecesadf09:12
KhertanRah ! Sending email via mfe is reliable !09:12
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KhertanRah ! Sending email via mfe isn t reliable !09:12
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luke-jrsending email hasn't been reliable since idiot sysadmins began silently dropping false positives09:14
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* noobmonk3y is struggling to wake up!09:22
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GAN900Whew09:24
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Stskeepsmoo09:25
Stskeepshow's stuff?09:25
GAN900Getting ready to play with my new Nexus One. :p09:26
GAN900Lots of great activity today.09:26
Stskeepsah, yes09:26
Stskeeps:P09:26
* noobmonk3y moo's at Stskeeps 09:26
Stskeepsso you're jumping ship or did there come out any good results of the imad/ari talks?09:26
GAN900The Google guy gave the whole room free phones.09:27
Stskeepsyeah, i heard09:27
GAN900I'm thinking ebay. ;)09:27
Stskeepsno 'not for sale' logos?09:27
noobmonk3ylol09:27
GAN900Nothing interesting from the MeeGo talks.09:27
GAN900Thursday will be the day09:27
GAN900MeeGo workshop09:28
crashanddieGAN900: you have a nexus one?09:28
Stskeeps:nod:09:28
crashanddieGAN900: so you gave in to Android?09:28
GAN900had some nice chats with Quim, Dawn, Roland, Henri and Dimmitri today09:28
GAN900crashanddie, eBay. :p09:28
Stskeepsdisillusioned or not? ;)09:28
crashanddieGAN900: anyone talking about all the companies endorsing meego? BMW, etc?09:29
GAN900crashanddie, Ari did a bit09:29
crashanddieGAN900: I might be interested, I have to send my n900 back and won't really have funds to buy anything09:29
GAN900The Maemo Community Council was dropped from the slide on it, though. :(09:29
JaffaMorning, all09:29
StskeepsGAN900: and collabora :P09:29
crashanddieGAN900: not the same message, you know that09:29
GAN900Yeah, yeah. :P09:30
crashanddieGAN900: I'd rather people take meego seriously because they see acer, asus, bmw and cisco than go "who the fuck are the jedis in their basement on the maemo community council?"09:30
JaffaGAN900: Bah, free phone - wish I was there09:30
crashanddiewere09:30
crashanddie:P09:30
crashanddiemoin Jaffa09:31
GAN900Jaffa, wish you were too.09:31
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GAN900The crowd and the Android guy almost came to blows over Google not sending kernel patches upstream.09:32
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Stskeepsany recordings up yet09:33
Stskeeps?09:33
Stskeepsthe stream was fucking laggy09:33
crashanddieGAN900: can you watch a youtube video?09:33
GAN900"Well, which company is delivering a product and sending patches? Huh?"09:33
GAN900Um, Nokia. . . .09:33
GAN900crashanddie, on EDGE09:33
crashanddieGAN900: is that a yes or no/09:34
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GAN900crashanddie, if you give me about 10 minutes09:34
crashanddieGAN900: just find some goddamned wifi :P09:34
crashanddieGAN900: will PM it, just watch it when you have a moment09:35
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larsiviI installed scratchbox+maemo (gui installer) yesterday - however I'd like to create a PR1.1 target too (to be able to properly test on an actual device) - are there any descriptions out there on how to do that?09:35
GAN900Stskeeps, no clue.09:36
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crashanddie"Do you trust IE? Any version of it?"09:37
crashanddie"Sure, I trust it will crap out and crash everything at the worst possible moment"09:37
GAN900Henri's Nexus One booted to the bootloader because the battery was low09:37
GAN900weird09:37
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noobmonk3ylarsivi, no idea sorry09:39
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mecehey what phone is thisguy using: http://meegoportal.com/?p=102 ?09:43
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noobmonk3ythere is an argument on the forums about it09:46
meceIs it the rumored N9xx or a phone that everyone knows about but me?09:46
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mecenoobmonk3y, where would that be?09:46
noobmonk3yPeeps seem to say Aava or LG09:47
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noobmonk3ylol mece, not like you to not use the search??!?!09:47
noobmonk3yhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50050&highlight=meego09:47
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mecenoobmonk3y, feeling lazy :)09:49
mecenoobmonk3y, thanks :)09:49
noobmonk3y:D09:50
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* noobmonk3y has fed and watered the trolls, time for work i feel :D09:51
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Sentriis it normal that I see some odd 1.7G /opt/pymaemo stuff on df -h ?10:16
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SentriI don't remember seeing them before10:16
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DocScrutinizer1.7GB ??  o.O10:18
Sentrisec ill pastebin the10:18
Sentrithem10:18
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Sentrihttp://pastebin.com/mKwUitud10:21
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adeusnormal10:22
Wolfieisn't that 1.7gb available, not used?10:22
DocScrutinizerused 172.4M    free  1.7G10:22
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Sentribut i remember it being different before10:23
Sentrisane as this page shows http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_filesystem10:23
meceSentri, it's normal. It's the python optifying that does that.10:24
adeusI have 501M used10:24
Sentriok thanks10:25
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cityLightshi all10:58
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cityLightsmy catalogs where magiclly wiped out. in which file are these? can anyone send me the default catalog file?10:59
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pupnikcityLights: can you rephrase your question?11:00
cityLightshi pupnik11:00
pupnikdescribe what you tried to do, then expected vs observed behavior11:01
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cityLightswhen I go in to the App. manager and click update I get an error message  , that no catalogs are available11:01
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pupniklemme try11:02
pupnikconnection too poor11:02
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cityLightsindeed if I click the catalogs the list is empty11:03
cityLightsthe Nokia system updates is missing11:03
cityLightsand so I ask, pupnik, where are the catalogs stored?11:04
NuD1t7Should I be worried when I just bought a new Nokia N900 and had to run only one update ... and yesterday it started to do the "reboot"-bug/problem ... hw 32 something in bootreason ... been up for 12h now though11:04
mecehey! A survey: http://maemo.nokia.com/survey/11:04
cityLightspupnik: odd, I run it again , and now all is fine.11:05
cityLightswhy?11:05
TigerTaelNuD1t7, if you haven't fiddled with anything, sounds like you might have cause for alarm.11:05
pupnikcityLights: that is probably due to a connection error with the software repository.  try again later11:05
pupnikheh11:05
TigerTaelI am SOOOOO glad that the N900 can bring itself out of sleep/power off to sound the alarm.11:06
TigerTaelHowever, the one morning, Saturday morning, it woke me up early because I just turned off the phone thinking that the alarm wouldn't sound. ;/11:06
cityLightswas pr 1.2 released yet? its been more then a month since sevral bug where marked fix , and wherent published to the common welth11:07
cityLightswalth11:07
TigerTaelwealth.11:07
cityLightssorry11:07
TigerTaelnp11:07
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Treibholzfirst Overclocking-talk, now PR1.2-Release-talk..11:08
Treibholzhmm, is there a bullshitbingo-script for irssi? :-)11:08
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NuD1t7TigerTael well installed/uninstalled some programs ... only had one problem and that was related to the downloading and extracting of debian.img.v5-somethingblaablaa11:08
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TigerTaelhrm...11:09
cityLightssorry Treibholz11:09
NuD1t7unistalled the "easy debian" last night ... the phone hasn´t rebooted itself after that11:09
TreibholzcityLights: no problem, hehe :-)11:09
TigerTaelNuD1t7, I haven't tested any of those advanced packages myself, but I have not had 1 reboot with my phone since I've had it.11:09
TigerTaelBut I haven't fiddled with the power settings either.11:10
NuD1t7heh k11:10
TigerTaelYou know that power saving feature on the CPU.11:10
NuD1t7nope11:10
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TigerTaelBut keep asking other users, maybe they've had more experience with easydebian, etc.11:10
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NuD1t7haven't even oc'd it ...yet11:11
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TigerTaelI'm not going to overclock mine... I am interested in underclocking it though.11:11
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pupnikgood choice11:12
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X-FadeHmm andrewfblack should stop clicking on all dodgy links. Nice spam.11:15
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StskeepsX-Fade: his facebook got hacked and they then hacked his gmail it seems like :P11:16
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mecewho's hacking what now?11:18
X-FadeStskeeps: Don't know but got a few spams directly coming from his gmail at least.11:18
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nid0that was a pretty mammoth survey11:33
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Sceltyeah, it has taken already 30 minutes11:34
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Sceltand I notice that I'm getting to the point on just clicking something to get rid of it11:34
viszany idea if you can get finnish keyboard for n900 from nokia discounted devices program?11:36
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visz240€ seems like a nice price11:36
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paul_____any ideas if there is a dfault lock code set on the n900? as i've set one i belive and wantc to chance it and don't know what it is to chance11:37
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AdamGogartyid like to know this also11:38
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Stskeepspaul_____: 1234511:38
SpeedEvil1234511:39
Scelt1234511:39
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paul_____ty :)11:40
paul_____i tried all sorts just not that lol11:40
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Khertan_HomeHi !11:40
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Khertan_Homehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZlY5oN2qC4&feature=player_embedded <<<< there is already some version of meego with a working gui ?11:41
X-FadeKhertan_Home: Sure, Moblin.11:41
Khertan_HomeMoblin ... so not open source :)11:41
achipadoes ncurses count as a *G*ui ?11:42
X-FadeThis is just Netbook UX.11:42
Khertan_Homeyep ... but i mean ... this isn't something release11:42
Khertan_Homejust a thing for demo purpose11:42
Stskeepsachipa: we have ncurses?11:42
Stskeeps:P11:42
X-FadeKhertan_Home: No, that is just the meego netbook release?11:43
Khertan_Homeah ...11:43
paul_____is there a clinet like ebuddy for the phone i remeber it started with p?11:43
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Khertan_Homeso i should try it on my netbook :)11:44
X-FadeBut 1.0 will be release in May.11:44
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Khertan_Homethx X-Fade11:44
Khertan_HomeX-Fade, yep ... but try :) not something for daily use11:44
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ptlpaul_____: pidgin11:45
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paul_____ty ptl11:46
paul_____no good don't suport facebook chat :(11:48
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TigerTaelWhat paul was thinking of might be Palringo.11:57
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crashanddiebloody hell11:58
crashanddieand they say our world isn't connected11:58
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crashanddieMy gf, who lives in France, was supposed to go back to work today (in London). I told her I didn't want her to go. Now she's pissed at me, because some volcano in Iceland has disrupted air travel throughout Europe... and somehow it's my fault?12:00
crashanddie(I am in Australia)12:00
bilboed-pi... volcano in iceland disrupted air travel ? wtf ?12:00
Khertan_Homeouch was just looking at moblin ... there is so few supported netbook12:00
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viszbilboed-pi, ash in the atmosphere12:01
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bilboed-piah right, just found the newsreport12:01
Stskeepsbilboed-pi: ash in atmosphere =very very bad for planes12:01
Stskeeps:P12:01
Treibholzcan I somehow change the priority of my jabber-resource?12:01
X-FadeSandblasting the engine blades. Nice ;)12:01
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Treibholzthe jabber-client in maemo is really ... let's call it ... it has a lot of potential!12:02
crashanddiebilboed-pi: dust cloud12:03
crashanddieX-Fade: did you see those pictures of helicopters landing in iraq?12:03
bilboed-pis/dust/ash/, but yes12:03
bilboed-pidamn...12:03
crashanddieX-Fade: where the dust in the air was sandblasting the blades and creating sparks -- actually eating away at the blades?12:04
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X-Fadecrashanddie: I've seen those pictures yes.12:05
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SpeedEvilHmm. Anyone with the mugen battery - can you comment on if there is free space in the back?12:06
crashanddiefor anyone else who hasn't seen the pictures, damned cool: http://www.michaelyon-online.com/the-kopp-etchells-effect.htm12:07
X-Fadecrashanddie: Just wanted to link you those ;)12:07
X-Fadecrashanddie: Titanium plates on the blades ;)12:07
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crashanddieX-Fade: could you comment on the meego security thread?12:08
X-FadeNo, I can't comment on that list.12:09
crashanddieoh really?12:09
crashanddielike, from a contract perspective?12:09
X-FadeMy host is blocked there :)12:09
crashanddieaww12:09
crashanddiejust create a bloody gmail account12:09
X-FadePerhaps, it is just a pain.12:10
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crashanddieX-Fade: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-April/001587.html12:10
crashanddieX-Fade: I was asking you questions, not realising you didn't read it12:10
X-FadeI did skim it, but meego is not my highest priority as I'm really not involved in it.12:13
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X-Fadecrashanddie: But basically every service run in separate db, separate user, separate machine.12:16
X-Fade*runs12:16
crashanddieperfect, exactly what I wanted to hear12:16
crashanddieI didn't like the fact the guy talked about Apache and wanted to draw comparisons with MeeGo/Maemo12:16
X-FadeISP manages the basic platform security updates.12:16
crashanddiebecause Apache have been known and laughed at for doing everything on each of their machines12:16
X-FadeWe have seperated everything out.12:17
X-FadeThat is why we even went to drop.maemo.org for ssh access (dput and git+ssh)12:17
crashanddieEach machine will have public SSH, /etc/passwd shared with 20 web apps, and absolutely no segregation12:17
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crashanddieAnd then people are surprised that by compromising one web app, everything is clusterfucked12:18
X-FadeWe don't have outside ssh access to web facing services.12:18
crashanddieX-Fade: ok, thanks, do you mind if I relay that information to the ML?12:18
X-FadeOther than the drop vm.12:18
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X-FadeServices run in DMZ with firewall and loadbalancers in front of it.12:19
crashanddieX-Fade: do I have any chance if I ask you to throw a stupid visio diagram that shows all the things? Not urgent, at all, just on the back of your to-do list?12:19
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crashanddieIs Maemo related too :-*12:19
X-FadeWell, yes and no.12:20
X-FadeI don't see public community access to the servers happen.12:20
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crashanddienever asked for that12:20
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X-FadeSo in the end it is a nice to know, but what can one do with that info.12:20
crashanddiekeep trolls from screaming "WE NEED SECURITY"12:21
X-FadeI'm very good at ignoring trolls ;)12:21
Khertan_HomeKhertan (~khertan@AAmiens-155-1-32-240.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr) a rejoint #maemo < oups ! where is this machine !12:21
crashanddieI know you are, you've been doing a great job at ignoring me at the summit :P12:21
X-Fadelol, what did I do there :)12:22
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crashanddieI offered to buy you a beer 3 times over 3 days, and 3 times you said "Yeah sure, give me a few minutes"12:23
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nid0here's a news line you dont see every day12:24
nid0Hence the company study, in which 16 Dorset sheep weighing from 26 to 78 kg were given various doses of methamphetamine (four unlucky control animals got none at all) and were then repeatedly zapped with a Taser X26 "compliance device".12:24
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pupnikdoes that happen to you often, crashanddie ?12:24
lardmanmorning all12:25
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crashanddiepupnik: not really, that's why I remember it!12:25
X-Fadecrashanddie: I remember sitting in the same bar, opposite to you.12:25
crashanddiemoin lardman12:25
crashanddieX-Fade: eh?12:26
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crashanddieX-Fade: nha, we never got together12:26
X-Fadecrashanddie: hotel lobby bar?12:26
crashanddieoh12:26
crashanddiemaybe12:26
crashanddiebut then I was inhibriated, so that doesn't count12:26
crashanddieX-Fade: I wasn't at the same hotel as you though12:27
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X-FadeOr I was. Don't know.12:28
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X-FadeI'm not known to ignore beer offers :)12:28
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lardmanX-Fade: so how come I'm not on the front page anymore? Did I not offer enough beer...? ;)12:30
X-Fadelardman: That effect wears off.12:30
lardmanlol12:30
X-Fadelardman: You need to continue to offer beer :)12:30
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lardmanof course, next meetup, no worries :)12:30
* lardman thinks to himself that if it's in Amsterdam again he'll need to sell a kidney to afford X-Fade's beer too ;)12:31
X-FadeThe London rumours are growing :)12:32
X-FadeSo can't be that bad.12:32
crashanddieLondon rumours?12:32
crashanddieAs in, next summit in London?12:32
fralswasnt that some forum nokia shebangthingy?12:32
X-FadeA LF preffered location it seems.12:32
lardmanLF?12:32
crashanddieLinux Foundation12:33
BCMMdo i have to click on each update in turn in app manager? can i just use apt-get instead?12:33
fralslinux foundation12:33
lardmanah12:33
X-Fadewow, that was bad spelling ;)12:33
crashanddieBCMM: click on the menu, there's an update all12:33
TreibholzBCMM: you can.12:33
pupnikLF?12:33
crashanddieLinux Foundation12:33
lardmaninfobot: LF stands for Linux Foundation12:33
infobotstands for Linux Foundation: don't you know we're supposed to be luserfriendly?12:33
BCMMthanks, both of those are useful12:34
lardmanstupid bot12:34
X-Fadeinfobot: LF is Linux Foundation12:34
infobotis Linux Foundation: don't you know we're supposed to be luserfriendly?12:34
lardman~LF12:34
crashanddie~LF is shorthand for Linux Foundation, more info at www.linuxfoundation.org12:34
infobotis shorthand for Linux Foundation, more info at www.linuxfoundation.org: don't you know we're supposed to be luserfriendly?12:34
crashanddiegotdamn12:34
crashanddie~forget lf12:34
infobotcrashanddie: i didn't have anything called 'lf' to forget12:34
lardmanlol12:34
crashanddie~factoid12:35
X-Fade~learn LF is Linux Foundation12:35
infobotX-Fade: I think you lost me on that one12:35
Scelt:-D12:35
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: you've broken it you twat12:35
crashanddieanyway12:35
crashanddieback to the rant that was brewing12:35
crashanddieThe year that I decide to go live on the other side of the planet, the fucking summit will be in London, WHERE I USED TO LIVE?12:35
lardmancrashanddie: perfect excuse to move back ;)12:36
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jacekowskii hate london12:36
X-Fadecrashanddie: I'm ok with AU too.12:36
lardmanyeah AU would be nice12:36
jacekowskii'm there at least twice a month and ussualy by car12:36
jacekowskiau is far away12:36
crashanddietoo far to travel guys12:36
jacekowskiand they walk upside down12:36
lardmanjacekowski: hmm, I try to avoid driving cars in London these days12:36
crashanddie25h on a plane? $2k to fly back and forth?12:36
lardmancrashanddie: sponsorship!12:37
jacekowskicrashanddie: and you risk that you might fell of the earth12:37
jacekowskicrashanddie: because of being upside down12:37
crashanddiejacekowski: that joke was funny 25 years ago, the first time it was told12:37
jacekowskithat was mean12:37
Treibholzsome jokes get better, the more often you hear them!12:38
pupnikis there a drama club nearby? perhaps another outlet would do crashanddie good12:38
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crashanddiepupnik: did I do something to you lately?12:38
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lardmanpupnik: ah, leave him alone, he's far away from us all and missing us12:38
lardman;)12:38
crashanddieYESH!12:38
crashanddieI mish you all :(12:39
pupnik:12:39
pupnik)12:39
crashanddieI mean, it's like nearly 8PM here, and only morning for most of you :*(12:39
pupnikhave a good day all12:39
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jacekowskithey do emu racing in australia12:39
jacekowskiand you need kangaroo driving license if you plan to go onto main roads12:39
Scelthttp://apina.biz/2850912:39
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jacekowskiand it's british prison colony12:40
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crashanddiejacekowski: seriously, it's not funny12:40
achipacrashanddie: it was funny enough to hear Qole on the Summit wish good night to his family just as he woke u :D12:40
achipau=up12:40
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crashanddieachipa: may be funny, trust me, it gets a whole less funny when you have to do it every day for 4 months12:41
crashanddieachipa: or you have to wake up at 4AM so that your boss can call you12:41
crashanddieachipa: or you have to stay up until 2AM for a conf call12:41
jacekowskii go to sleep at 3AM12:41
jacekowskiand wake up at 7:40AM12:41
crashanddiejacekowski: yeah but you're an unemployed bum who lives in his mother's basement12:41
crashanddieyou live off pizza and coke12:42
jacekowskicrashanddie: no12:42
jacekowskii'm at work at the moment12:42
achipacrashanddie: I still have a 'good [insert your time of the day]' script for a good buddy of mine who lives in NZ :)12:42
crashanddieachipa: the day I greet my family over IRC is the day I know I have lost the very few surviving sparks of sanity12:42
X-FadeThe thing with versions is, I don't like to touch the packaging itself.12:42
crashanddiehow do you open your food then?12:43
X-FadeHmm that was for Jaffa ;)12:43
crashanddieno packaging?12:43
achipacrashanddie: at least you still have them - that's a start ! :D12:43
crashanddieachipa: I call lardman a friend, infobot tells me that means my sparks aren't that sparky anymore.12:44
achipaX-Fade: btw, how do you feel about the extras-experimental thing ? am about to write a mail but would like to hear some opinions beforehand12:44
X-FadeWhat purpose would it serve?12:44
achipacrashanddie: hey, brown dwarfs might not be flaming and sparky, but they are still stars :)12:45
crashanddieachipa: hahaha, excellent quote12:45
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achipaX-Fade: errm, sever extras from new PR/SDK release date mismatch problems ?12:45
X-Fadeachipa: ?12:46
achipaX-Fade: the notion that we should have an isolated extras-experimental with the newest SDK, whichever/whatever version it is, and that would become extras-devel when Nokia hits the 'bombs away' button12:47
achipaso we can still play around with new stuff as it will be on release, but not endanger people working for current PRs12:48
crashanddieachipa: I don't think the plan is ever to have a PR stuck in devel for so long12:49
X-Fadeachipa: Won't versioned extras-devel be easier then?12:49
crashanddieachipa: to be honest, what needs to happen is exactly what happened now: new PR version is submitted to devel, and everyone works like mad to port/rebuild their app with the new PR12:50
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jacekowskiwell, it would be nice to have SDK avaliable some time before release for users12:50
achipacrashanddie: I'm aware of that, but I don't see what insurance we have we won't run into the same thing with PR1.3+, harmattan, etc12:50
jacekowskibut without breaking anything12:50
X-FadeWell our proposed plan fixes on thing in that: Not generating dependencies higher than is needed by the app.12:51
achipaX-Fade: terminology, doesn't matter if we call it extras-devel1.2, extras-experimental or extras-head, the bottom line is to have both latest stable and devel available12:51
X-FadeOne idea is to move away from AM altoghether.12:52
crashanddieachipa: can we call it extra-headache?12:52
X-Fadehave our own appdownloader application.12:52
achipacrashanddie: that's an option, otoo :)12:52
X-FadeWhich is aware of what versions you are runnning and doesn't even notice the mess.12:52
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achipathe problem is that we have non backwards compatible stuff that *will* burn people...12:53
achipaand we have this problem of people treating dependencies very liberally12:54
Jaffaachipa: But with syumbol versioning it *will* be something they can't use, because their OS doesn't support it. Combined with a separate repo for Extras (proper), it's only people using extras-devel/-testing which could get burned.12:54
X-Fadeachipa: dependencies are now generated based on actual symbols used.12:54
korhojoahey guys. I have a problem12:54
achipaand how will that work with pygtk, pyside and pyqt apps ?12:54
korhojoaI can't seem to get the n900 to let me unmount the MyDocs partition12:54
X-FadeAnd AM will tell you that you need to upgrade your OS from PR1.2 on, IIRC.12:55
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achipaI already see people just throwing in blanket 'python-qt4-gui' dependencies. That sort of works now, but certainly is not good on the long run12:55
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X-Fadeachipa: I am really thinking of throwing qt4-maemo5 out.12:56
X-FadeThey reall created a mess there.12:56
Jaffaachipa: So, you're worried that people using soft-coded libraries which don't enforce compile-time dependencies will be installable, but won't work.12:56
X-FadeHaving 2 parallel Qt version is just a pain.12:57
achipaJaffa: yes, or, will not upgrade properly (=break on upgrade)12:57
Jaffaachipa: First pass there is to improve the documentation on what people *should* do (i.e. "if you want to deploy on PR1.1, use: Depends: .... (>= ...)" for the various Py* projects12:57
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achipaX-Fade: oh the # of times I told this on the qt-maemo list...12:57
* achipa sighs12:57
X-Fadeachipa: We as a community need to take a stand then?12:58
Jaffaachipa: And chiming in earlier on the "how to solve PR1.2" supporting the "multiple repos" idea probably would've been good :-)12:58
X-Fadeachipa: Propose it on -devel and get it going.12:58
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achipaX-Fade: the biggest problem is that the thing already has plenty inertia, will have to have a proposal with proper alternatives or it'll get ignored (with sad nodding and all)...12:59
X-FadeWe have quite some apps depending on qt4-maemo5, which are basically useless.13:00
TigerTael;/13:00
achipaJaffa: yes, well, it's a solution with drawbacks, too, it hasn't dawned on mee soon enough that there will be no really good/painless solution13:00
korhojoaNo-one knows why it won't allow dismount of the storage volume?13:01
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X-FadeI feel we need to see the Qt and PR1.2 issues separately.13:01
achipapr1.2 (with regard to qt) should have really been called maemo 5.1, 'cause that's what it is13:02
Khertan_Homekorhojoa, something using it ... tracker maybe13:02
korhojoawhat tracker?13:02
achipabut I agree the qt problem is separate13:02
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Khertan_Homekorhojoa, media tracker13:03
achipaand we will see it again in the future (see the recycling of libqt4-maemo5 for Qt4.7)13:03
korhojoadamn you, media tracker13:03
korhojoait can't be using it all the damn time13:03
Khertan_Homedon't know ... look at which file is open on the partition13:03
korhojoahow? :D13:03
korhojoaI've been trying to figure that out for a while13:03
SpeedEvilfuser -m /home/user/MyDocs13:03
SpeedEvilwhy do you want to unmount?13:04
korhojoanothing, apparently13:04
korhojoaI'd like to use it in mass storage mode13:04
SpeedEviljust plug it in13:04
SpeedEviland it automatically does it13:04
korhojoawow, thanks. never tried that.13:04
korhojoaI've been trying for two hours13:04
korhojoait just keeps saying that the volume is busy13:04
SpeedEvilhmm13:04
achipakorhojoa: reboot ?13:04
korhojoasorry. "resource is in use"13:04
korhojoaachipa: tried that too13:05
korhojoathat's about the first thing i try when something doesn't work13:05
achipakorhojoa: do you have fuser ?13:05
Khertan_Homekorhojoa, lsof /media/usbdisk/13:05
Khertan_Homekorhojoa, lsof /home/user/MyDocs/13:05
korhojoaachipa: well, it's in the built-in busybox13:06
korhojoaKhertan_Home: also nothing13:06
Khertan_Homestrange13:06
Khertan_Homereboot :)13:06
Khertan_Homeeasier solution i think13:06
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korhojoalike i said, i've tried it, multiple times13:06
korhojoai'll try it again though. shutting down now13:06
korhojoaaaaand booting.13:06
Khertan_Homewith usb cable connected before start ?13:07
korhojoathis time, yes13:07
crashanddieKhertan_Home: t'as trouve un padawan?13:07
korhojoawow. now it's there. phone doesn't show anything though13:07
korhojoadoes this mean that it's in some kind of mass-storage only mode?13:08
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Khertan_Homecrashanddie, gnié ?13:08
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achipaX-Fade, Jaffa: it would be good to have feedback if the ONLY reason for libqt4-maemo5 is to have it installed in parallel with the 'stable' one13:09
lardmanKhertan_Home: hmm, Google translate has issues, what is a pany...? Had to translate French->German13:11
Treibholz'pany' is a French word?13:11
crashanddienope13:12
lardmannah gnié13:12
lardmanpany is apparently the English translation for that13:12
crashanddielardman: "gnié" is the same as the canadian "eh?"13:12
Treibholzit's not a German word either...13:12
lardmanGoogle translated it into a German word I understood though13:13
DangerMauseh13:13
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lardmanbut it looks like it's wrong in all cases, unless the Germans say "Gesellschaft?" rather than "eh?"13:13
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rangeesundheit.13:14
range*Gesundheit.13:14
range.oO ( Damn )13:14
crashanddielardman: ja, aber ihr deutsh ist krumm :P13:14
X-Fadeachipa: Parallel install can be a good thing, but developers seem to believe that that is the one to use.13:15
lardmangleichfalls!13:15
crashanddieaber sie haen ein schonen akzent wenn sie deutsch sprecht13:15
achipaheh, mein Deutsch ist Tarzan Deutsch (at best :P )13:15
crashanddies/haen/haben/13:15
infobotcrashanddie meant: aber sie haben ein schonen akzent wenn sie deutsch sprecht13:15
achipaX-Fade: what I'm saying there might be less painful and disruptive ways to go about that :)13:16
lardmancrashanddie: you can say du to me13:16
crashanddieI can?13:16
lardmanyou have permission13:16
crashanddieah13:16
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Khertan_HomeIch verstehe nichts13:16
Khertan_Home. Aber ich sprach Deutsch in der Vergangenheit13:16
lardmanKhertan_Home: not sure anyone really understands crashanddie ;)13:17
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crashanddienow nobody understands YOU!13:18
crashanddieHAHAHAHAHA13:18
Stskeepswhy the fuck? :P13:18
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Stskeepswhat's with all these op-ups? is there any threat to the channel?13:18
Stskeeps:P13:18
crashanddieStskeeps: waiting for mohammad to write the guidelines13:19
TigerTaelYes, the threat of freedom of speech.13:19
lardmananyway, crashanddie stop tarting around, apologies to everyone for the random language changes, and I'm going back to work13:19
crashanddiehave fun13:19
crashanddieKhertan_Home: dis lui que toi tu me comprends quand je parle...13:19
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crashanddieTigerTael: don't talk about inside jokes you can't possibly have knowledge of :)13:20
achipaX-Fade: and especially since the libqt4-maemo5 is a dev branch, it makes little sense, it constantly breaks everything downstream13:20
Khertan_Homelardman: bah je le comprends moi :)13:20
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crashanddiehaha13:20
crashanddievery helpful, thanks13:20
achipaX-Fade: I'm inclined to say even having the next qt statically linked would be a better solution :S that way at least you would not have scheduled breakage of stuff in extras, and would have a remote chance of entering extras13:21
Khertan_Homelol13:21
frals~curse VirtualBox13:21
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, VirtualBox !13:21
fralslove how my vboxnetdrv has randomly uninstalled itself13:21
achipabreakage of stuff in extras-devel... duh13:21
crashanddieStskeeps: nice proposal13:21
X-Fadeachipa: I think we should just continue to block qt4-maemo5. It is just not for end-users.13:22
X-Fadeachipa: And now there is talk of putting 4.7 under qt4-maemo5.13:22
achipaX-Fade: what I'm saying it's not even for developers :D13:22
X-Fadeachipa: yeah, indeed.13:22
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achipaX-Fade: qt4.7 is a moving target, like 4.6 was, probably even more in the beginning. I don't have any 4.6 apps as they were breaking it all to often. It was just frustrating.13:24
achipathere is/was no chance of putting anything in extras-devel, have it working and hope it would work just the same a month later13:24
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X-Fadeachipa: Well the libqt4 version in PR1.2 will at least be 'stable' for the PR1.2 lifetime ;)13:24
X-FadeBut really, I think pyside should only aim at libqt4.13:25
BCMMcan i turn the phone off with /sbin/halt? or will that confuse things?13:25
achipaX-Fade: I came to a similar conclusion, and that's exactly what I'm doing with PyQt :)13:26
X-FadePyside, pyqt all sounds the same for me, sorry ;)13:26
achipaX-Fade: pyqt is a kind of pyside that works (/me runs from angry pyside folks :D ) )13:27
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X-Fadeachipa: We actually experimented a bit with the indexed qt4 symbols. But for bindings that really doesn't help.13:28
achipathere is a lot of aiming in front of targets and then missing them... which does not play out too well considering it's middleware and affects everything downstream-ish...13:29
* X-Fade waits for a stable api13:29
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adalalquick question, would unclocking your device void warranty?13:35
adalalor undervolting13:35
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Khertan_Homeif you stay in cpu specification i didn't see why it would13:36
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NuD1t7well any non-stock kernel ( unless developer version from manufacturer ) is supposed to be "this craps on your warranty"13:37
Khertan_Homereally ?13:37
StskeepsNuD1t7: overclock kernel probably does13:37
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NuD1t7well the problem is that the warranty covers the device and softwrae as it is/was when delivered to client13:38
NuD1t7but i am not 100% sure13:38
fluxnud1t7, so installing anything voids the warranty then?-)13:39
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asjif you reflash it it's not like they can find out13:39
larsiviUsing the FREMANTLE_ARMEL target, should I expect the maemo5 pri1.2 desktop to start on Xephyr?13:39
asjnot the last time I used it13:40
larsiviit seems like qemu complains a lot, then segfaults13:40
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achipaX-Fade: will there ever BE a stable api on Fremantle ? :) :(13:42
asjachipa: Qt maintain source compatiblity on major version, and bin on sub version13:43
asjs13:43
X-Fadeachipa: I feel that things will be slowing down at least.13:45
achipaasj: pink lines :) Is mostly true on desktops, not true at all on (new) platfoms...13:46
asjachipa: Qt+maemo is not Qt, what the maemo guys do...heaven only knows :13:47
asj:)13:47
achipaX-Fade: the core maybe, but mobility and QML will give a spin to it somewhere down the line, I'm certain13:47
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X-Fadeachipa: Yes, but that also has to get more stable at some point.13:48
achipaasj: well, the official Qt pages/docs claim otherwise, which certainly doesn't help :)13:49
achipaasj: or rather, it would be cool if that WAS the actual state and not the problem :)13:50
asjwhich part? :)13:50
achipaasj: well, Qt for Maemo sits right beside all other platforms... kind of gives the impression that its not some downstream experiment :)13:51
asjachipa: ah :)13:52
achipaasj: also, the docs claim QMaemo5 classes to be part of QtCore and QtGui, which is not quite the case :)13:52
asjI think that maybe more true now than it used to be13:52
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achipaasj: certainly, 4.6 will be a big step forward, it's just that there is a fair number of platform caveats about things people take as granted based on desktop Qt experience (like the aforementioned source/binary compatibility)13:54
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asjachipa: mmm, but it kinda fits with the n900 which seems to be a bit of an experimental device anyways eh?13:55
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* lardman|busy looks at Icelandic eruption and wonders if he'll be able to fly to Glasgow next week13:55
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X-Fadelardman|busy: Start thinking about the train ;)13:56
lardman|busyyeah, not a pleasant thought13:56
* asj is thinking about bed13:56
lardman|busyI hope the meeting is cancelled in that case, but we'll see13:56
X-FadeLot of travel/trouble for just a meeting ;)13:57
lardman|busyc'est la vie13:57
Khertan_Homeah bah oui mon bon monsieur !13:57
Khertan_Home:)13:57
lardman|busywe're not into telemeetings in the engineering industry ;)13:57
Khertan_Homein the telecom engineering industry ? :)13:58
lardman|busymechanical engineering13:58
X-Fadelardman|busy: No excuse :)13:58
lardman|busyI know, but still, face to face is the way it's done (and the few teleconferences I've done weren't overly productive)13:58
avee_Teleconferencing the mechanical way, two cans and a really long string?13:59
lardman|busyavee_: lol, yes13:59
avee_But by next week stuff will probably fly again, unless the thing decides to cough again.14:00
avee_The are expecting to resume flights somewhere this evening.14:00
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lardman|busyavee_: ah that's good news14:02
lardman|busyanything to avoid a train, though really a train might be better than EasyJet14:02
avee_Ah well, i generally don't mind trains, but haven't tried any in the UK yet ;)14:03
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lardman|busyavee_: ah, well that explains it14:03
lardman|busy;)14:03
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avee_Yeah, they do have a certain image. For long stretches you really need high speed trains to compete with planes.14:05
lardman|busyso ~8h to Scotland isn't fast enough ;)14:05
lardman|busyactually it's probably more than that as I'd need to change a few times14:05
avee_Nope, that should get you to New York, not Schotland.14:06
lardman|busyindeed14:06
lardman|busyand the funny thing is it would probably be cheaper to fly to NY too14:06
avee_But once a train is going at 300km/h it becomes a nice way of traveling.14:06
lardman|busyavee_: yep, European trains are much nicer14:06
achipaX-Fade: seriously, what's our policy on statically linked stuff ? if someone promoted something that includes a (properly optified) app with a statically linked Qt4.6 (or whatever is the dev version ATM) ... Can it reach extras or is that a no-no ?14:07
X-Fadeachipa: We have no policy on that.14:07
n00bmonk3y_Workachipa: good question, never read anything about something being denied becuase of it, as the dependency would still work :P14:07
n00bmonk3y_Workahhhh but X-Fade be clever and know more than me ;)14:08
achipalardman|busy: Try out Serbian trains. It is confirmed we have a lower average travel speed than we had a 100 years a ago (fact)14:08
X-Fadeachipa: Technically there is nothing in the way of doing that.14:08
lardman|busyachipa: lol, I'll bear it in mind14:08
n00bmonk3y_WorkX-Fade: dont the maemo hamsters get a bit miffed and nibble at your ankles until you stop doing it? or is that just a myth?14:08
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X-Faden00bmonk3y_Work: try out and see :)14:09
n00bmonk3y_Worklol :)14:09
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achipa:) I'm just contemplating bundling Qt statically with PyQt... so it never gets outdated and needs no rootfs space... temptation of the dark side...14:10
* n00bmonk3y_Work doesnt completely understand that, sounds geeky ;)14:10
lardman|busyfine for the short term, but if you did that I think it should be flagged as something to be improved when the time is right14:10
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X-Fadeachipa: It is an option. Also good to discuss that first ;)14:11
lardman|busythe difficulty is where to stop once you start saying that everything must be split into libs14:11
X-Fadeachipa: curiously, how big would a package be?14:11
achipaX-Fade: good question, have not yet experimented with it14:11
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lardman|busyachipa: can you statically link? Doesn't Python do late binding, etc14:12
lardman|busywould that work14:12
achipalardman|busy: pythod does, but PyQt is very much C++ on the inside :)14:12
lardman|busyok14:13
achipai.e. I can link the Qt stuff to the wrapper itself, not pretty, but should work14:13
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achipalardman|busy: in fact, there is even a cleaner way, PyQt seems to be able to do this out of the box, see http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/static/Docs/PyQt4/pyqt4ref.html and search for consolidate14:17
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achipawell, certainly worth an experiment... though I probably wouldn't promote something like that all the way to extras. It sure is tempting for extras-devel, though14:19
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achipahey, this is interesting: apt-get install fennec says: E: Handler silently failed14:26
* achipa just loves non-descript error messages14:26
nid0doesnt seem so silent14:29
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crashanddieachipa: error hunting 101: the last error is never the significant one.14:34
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SpeedEvilcrashanddie: Unless it is.14:36
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achipacrashanddie: that's the fun part, that's not the last error. It's the ONLY error (supposedly, but I know better :) )14:38
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nid0bloody hell, all uk flights in and out grounded now14:40
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achipahttp://imagebin.ca/view/ChcWJS.html14:41
achipabazinga14:41
crashanddienid0: tell me about it14:41
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BCMMcan somebody help me with irreco? i won't connect to lirc14:45
BCMMand it appears that lircd isn't running14:45
BCMMnot sure how to make it run14:45
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BCMMstarting the init script warns me that there are no valid remotes14:49
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Kurppa_achipa: I think that might be because you have some old xulrunner installed, or might not have installed that at all.15:08
Kurppa_I have no clue if this is the problem, but try purging and reinstalling xulrunner first, then install fennec.15:09
achipaKurppa_: will do, thx15:09
X-FadeComes from Ovi, right?15:09
TomaszDhow do you make newly installed desktop icons appear without rebooting the device these days?15:10
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TomaszDrefreshing icon chace doesn't seem to work15:11
TomaszD*cache15:11
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SpeedEvilI can control what tracker oes with the config file in ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg15:12
SpeedEvilHow do I control thumbnailer?15:12
TomaszDhmm, there is a tracker-cfg package15:13
TomaszDyou could try that15:13
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meceSpeedevil, you don't control the thumbnailer, the thumbnailer controls you!15:31
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joker_89hi15:35
BenjaminWilkhello15:35
BenjaminWilk:-)15:35
joker_89anyone knows python?15:36
achipajoker_89: shoot15:36
Lumpio-Wait15:36
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Lumpio-You... were not born with the Python?15:36
Khertan_Homejoker_89, hi15:36
joker_89i am doing a sync using python, but i dont know how to show a text process like SENDING 1/100, SENDING 2/1000..15:36
Treibholzjoker_89: guido does15:36
joker_89because i send all at the same time in JSON (like xml)15:37
Khertan_Homeyou need a gui framework :)15:37
Lumpio-pfft15:37
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Khertan_Homethreading is your friend :)15:37
joker_89i have the progress bar working, but i dont know how mobiles detect item per item.15:37
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talmaijoker_89: you send all items in one request? which library do you use for requests (pycurl, urllib)?15:39
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joker_89urllib15:39
joker_89i send all items serialized in json15:39
joker_89syncml do the same but in xml.15:39
sejois there a good tutorial on how te package for the n900 (python app) got this link but isn't all that clear: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/How_to_build15:40
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achipa_"I would feel embarrassed if my mobile phone looked outdated"... WTF ?15:40
sejoachipa: eh?15:41
Surfaimagotuote15:41
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achipasejo: looking at the maemo questionnaire. Gets weirder by the page15:42
sejoach15:42
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timeless_mbphey!15:45
timeless_mbpcan someone please write a two way morse code application for us?15:45
timeless_mbpthe sender should be the camera LED15:45
timeless_mbpand the receiver should be the primary camera15:45
Khertan_Homelol15:45
SpeedEvilmece: that depends on localisation.15:45
sejotimeless_mbp: that would be cool15:45
timeless_mbpbonus points for integrating with the share dialog15:45
timeless_mbp(ftp over morse code over LED)15:46
sejohahaha15:46
Khertan_Hometimeless_mbp, where did you get that idea ?15:46
achipanow getting really weird... "Holding this device and looking at it feels enjoyable. "15:46
timeless_mbpthere's a guy standing by the window in the next wing15:46
Khertan_Homeis it the cache method sync of nokia servers ?15:46
achipaam I just having the wrong mental image of things being enjoyable ?15:46
Mekin the canon firmware hacking community they have lots of experience with such things... blinking the leds is how they get dumps of the firmware of many cameras :)15:46
timeless_mbphe was moving around, i tried to wave my hand to say hello15:46
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timeless_mbphe didn't respond15:46
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timeless_mbpi asked sp3000 if i should send him an sms15:46
timeless_mbphe suggested using morse code15:46
timeless_mbpi realized we could do two way morse code...15:47
timeless_mbpthe rest you know15:47
Khertan_Homequite funny idea15:47
lcukok timeless_mbp now it gets practical, how do oyu filter the other noise from camera nad know which is which15:47
timeless_mbplcuk: the camera should be able to focus on the bright led15:47
lcukdoes device send flashing sync signal15:47
timeless_mbpthe led color will be fairly easy to spot15:47
lcukuntil it gets an ack :D15:47
timeless_mbpand i'd hope it can focus on it15:47
Khertan_Homethe difficult part will be read a led flash and differeciate it from the sun15:47
lcukred recording led15:47
lcukor white torch15:48
lcuk"filter other noise"15:48
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lcukyou find the 10hz flash from video stream or something15:48
lcuksend an ack flash back15:48
lcukthen continue15:48
timeless_mbpwell, i think the messages will have to be half-duplex15:49
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timeless_mbpi think morse includes a GA (go ahead) message15:49
achipa"I spend more and more time taking care of myself, in order to feel good". What *exactly* is this getting at ? :S15:49
timeless_mbpso that shouldn't be too bad15:49
timeless_mbpachipa: "you're a girl"15:49
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timeless_mbp(probably a teenager!)15:50
mecehahahaha15:50
meceI had some good times with that survey.15:50
achipatimeless_mbp: seriously, the questionnaire is starting to worry me...15:50
crashanddietimeless_mbp: I wrote a python lib to decode morse code15:50
crashanddietimeless_mbp: to "read" morse code when you tap the screen15:51
achipatimeless_mbp: but then I figured it out. These are the *control* questions !15:51
sejocrashanddie: can you encode with it also?15:51
crashanddiesejo: well, it's easily reversible I guess, I never had to, so never implemented it15:51
crashanddiesejo: there's plenty of encoding libs out there15:51
crashanddieI won't have access to the lib until next month though, sorry15:51
sejocrashanddie: challenge of the day: encode and use the led :p15:51
* mece sings 'black black black black number one!"15:54
achipasejo: I've got a better idea, use the vibrate function for it ! And make a client that detects is via the accelerometer !15:54
achipaand then upgrade to intercontinental comms via longitudinal mechanical waves :)15:55
sejoachipa: that's so 90's15:56
sejoleds are in now15:56
sejo14:40:44 < achipa_> "I would feel embarrassed if my mobile phone looked outdated"... WTF ?15:56
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sejoremember?15:56
kirmaif it wouldn't look like iphone?15:57
achipasejo: I was missing the most obvious question "I would feel embarrasssed if it looked liked an iPhone"15:57
achipaexactly15:57
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sejohehe15:58
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achipaon the plus side, the survey DID have penguins shooting *LASERS* from their eyes16:00
achipaand everything is better with lasers...16:00
viszhttp://www.lazertits.com/16:00
pupniklol16:00
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talmaiIs getsatisfaction.com considered as a valid bugtracker for extras QA?16:01
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achipaI'm lobbying to have http://www.zombo.com accepted as a valid link for handling end-user support16:03
MohammadAGdevel down?16:03
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talmaiI'm 100% serious, getsatisfaction is not some porn site, we use it as a issue report / funcionality request platform for our android/maemo apps16:06
moo---has anyone tried chrome on n900?16:06
squiddslow16:06
Sceltmoo---: many16:06
moo---squidd: know that it is slow is enough in this poit16:06
moo---point16:06
timeless_mbpmoo---: it's great, it shows people how much better microb is :)16:06
Appiahmoo---: check the thread(s) on talk.maemo.org16:06
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timeless_mbppeople don't really appreciate microb until they have something against which to compare it :)16:07
achipatalmai: sure, if it gives an option to handle user issues, it's OK16:07
frosty`timeless_mbp: hooray grammar16:07
achipatalmai: whether it's commercial or not matters little (well, unless you bombard users with ads or require payment/subscription to access it)16:07
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timeless_mbpfrosty`: yeah,… grammar is hard16:08
talmaiachipa, tnx for the info :)16:08
achipanp16:09
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fralslol thought this chick was eyeing me on the bus but no worries, she was staring at my n90016:23
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DangerMaushehe good taste16:24
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Veggenfrals: My girlfriend (who has an iPhone) already envies my N900.. :)16:26
Treibholz"What? It works without iTunes?"16:27
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dubziiChoosing a phone that doesn't work with iTunes is easy16:28
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fralsVeggen: hehe, my gf got a 5800 and shes so jealous of my hw keyboard :)16:28
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nid0my girlfriend has an hd2 and she really likes blubbels16:30
nid0other than that she prefers the sense ui on hers :p16:30
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n00bmonk3y_Workfrals......16:32
n00bmonk3y_WorkYou know there is always the odd winge from randoms in tmo about fmms not being integrated into the system so to speak... is it worth a mini statement on your plans in a separate thread?16:33
timeless_mbp"blubbels"?16:33
n00bmonk3y_Worki'm thinking to keep the plans separate to the development thread so to speak16:33
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fralsn00bmonk3y_Work: bah, ill update first post in fmms thread... plan to do a new topic when i promote to testing anyway16:34
n00bmonk3y_Workahhh good point ;) sorry didnt mean to add more work for ya!16:34
fralsdunno what good posting a new topic would do as ppl dont search before posting anyway :p16:35
fralshehe np, didnt mean it like that16:35
fralsjust getting tired by users who dont read before posting as there seems to be a constant flow of them :P16:36
n00bmonk3y_Work:D - lol was just a thought a sthe current mega thread is useful - but is more dictated around the development, was thinking of explaining the mms v integration aspect to the masses.... - second thoughts, might not make sense separatley - but in the first post would be good :D16:36
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n00bmonk3y_Workfrals:  know exactly what you mean ;)16:37
frals:)16:37
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pupnikquiet...16:42
rmrfchikpew16:43
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* DocScrutinizer hears you can't get laid with showing off a N900 o.O16:43
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Stskeepssomeone in here claimed it was possible16:44
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: vagalume was great for that on n8x0 though16:44
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kamuiwho posted the lazertits.com16:45
kamuifunky monkey16:45
Sceltvisz16:45
Nils^hey people. First: Yesterday or the day before I asked about custom shortcuts, for example terminal with ssh connection. There was no answer but it was indeed very easy and I have the solution16:45
visz=o16:45
Nils^you have to create a .desktop in /usr/local/something (just find . | grep .desktop). For example copy the one from midnight commander.16:46
viszeverything is better with lasers16:46
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Nils^Now a new question: I have a fake PS3 controller. The manual says it uses "2.4GHz radio frequency (RF) technology". Do you think I might be able to connect this to my n900 ?16:47
visz=D16:48
TreibholzNils^: no.16:48
DocScrutinizerNils^: http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html plus d-bus scrpting schould do16:48
Nils^for PS3 I have to use a special USB Dongle (or for PC)16:48
TreibholzNils^: is it Bluetooth? or does it have its own connector?16:48
Nils^Treibholz: like I said, own connector. No sign of bluetooth anyware16:49
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DocScrutinizerNils^: aah sorry. thought you talk bout kbd-shortcuts16:49
Nils^DocScrutinizer: I meant the basic connection first :)16:50
TreibholzNils^: no, won't work.16:50
TreibholzNils^: unless you tinker a usb-adapter to the usb-host... but... no, you don't want that.16:50
Nils^ok, So I have to buy a 60€ controller to connect to my n900, which I won't do.16:51
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viszNils^, what would you use the controller for?16:52
Nils^visz: Emulator games16:52
viszwith tv-out?16:53
Nils^its not exactly easy with the n900 keyboard :) . Yes, sometimes with TV-Out.16:53
crashanddielmao16:54
crashanddieI just love people who think of a mobile device and go "ooooh, games"16:54
DocScrutinizeractually it's a bit of a pitty we got no SDR for 433/866/2400MHz16:54
crashanddiejust get a wii, seriously16:54
lardman|busycrashanddie: wii + portable LCD tv you mean? ;)16:54
Nils^lardman|busy: don't feed the trolls.16:54
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: FPGA! (+ V12)16:54
crashanddielardman|busy: they're talking about a ps3 remote control, and tv out16:55
crashanddielardman|busy: what's portable about that?16:55
lardman|busytrue, /me moves on16:55
lardman|busycrashanddie: was just your comment about seeing portable device & thinking of games16:55
crashanddiefairy nuff16:56
viszNils^, don't know it it's possible, but how about: ps3-controller:usb -> usb:laptop:wlan -> wlan:n90016:56
Nils^:) this might be a step too much.16:56
DocScrutinizerNOW I need a coffee16:57
visz=D16:57
Nils^I have a PS1/2->Adapter, wired, too. But this has a normal sized USB connector. I don't know about the differences USB/mini-usb16:58
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: fpga=powerhog, that's the street talk16:58
Nils^micro-usb I mean16:58
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: hence the v1217:03
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: what's V12?17:04
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DocScrutinizera otto-motor?17:06
lardman|busyv12?17:07
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Anss|12 voltages?17:07
lardman|busyI thought most otto cycle engines were 4 cylinder17:08
DocScrutinizerlardman|busy: where you're living?17:08
DocScrutinizerGDR?17:08
lardman|busyin fact the original was single cyclinder apparently17:08
lardman|busyDocScrutinizer: Bath17:08
DocScrutinizeraah no there those were 2 cyl17:09
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lardman|busyI was just thinking of the Prius ICE which is supposed to operate close to a true Otto cycle iirc, though I may be wrong17:09
DocScrutinizerI was moe thinking like in USA all engines are at least 8 cyl17:09
lardman|busyah yes17:10
lardman|busyand if you're a learner you have a V617:10
spliffyis it possible to deactivate the gsm modem with an unchanged n900? i'm filling out the survey and can't remember17:10
nid0offline mode17:10
lardman|busyspliffy: yes, airplane mode17:10
lardman|busyor that one17:10
spliffykk17:11
DocScrutinizerspliffy: there's 'an app fot that'17:11
spliffyDocScrutinizer: i guess i have it installed17:11
DocScrutinizerit's called tablet mode if you want to keep the WLAN17:12
spliffybut it only makes the switch more comfortable17:12
spliffy?17:12
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spliffyyeah. i want that out of the box17:12
lardman|busyI'm off, cu all tomorrow17:12
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BenjaminWilki need a function to add up values in a column and give it back / out in normal text17:15
BenjaminWilkin the same topic of course17:15
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* GAN900 groans17:26
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* GAN900 is a bit worried the Nexus One is offering system updates with no internet access.17:35
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Khertan_HomeGAN900,  ?17:36
nid0its *that* clever17:36
Khertan_Homehow is it possible17:36
GAN900Khertan_Home, no idea17:36
GAN900Secret Google darknet?17:36
Khertan_Homehum ... slow download17:36
microlithsubspace radio!17:36
Treibholzvia RDS17:36
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GAN900No SIM in the phone, not associated with any WiFi network.17:36
Khertan_Homeslow index ... and purpose it only after a certain delay17:36
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stefan_equote:17:37
stefan_eHelp us to make N900 and our future MeeGo products better by taking the survey on http://maemo.nokia.com/survey/ thanks!17:37
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smauguh, my N900 seems to have annoying bug nowadays17:38
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smaugif I don't reboot every now and then, after unlocking the screen I need to wait few seconds before it start to work properly17:39
smaugtimeless: have you heard of something like that?17:39
* smaug goes17:40
GAN900By the way, the only notable content in Ari's talk yesterday was that the N900 has been an "overwhelming" success.17:40
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nid0in fairness though, theyd say that regardless unless it'd been a total complete unmitigated disaster17:41
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mvahi there!17:42
threshанти-хруст.17:42
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GAN900nid0, the sense that I got was that it was, in fact, a complete fucking insane runaway success17:42
GAN900Which is a function of Nokia being completely incapable of backing the platform, but still.17:42
GAN900I saw more N900s there yesterday than Android devices17:43
nid0they didnt give any sales figures that I saw right, iv always been interested to know how accurate the "30k a month wasnt enough, we upped production to 100k" rumours are17:43
mvakernel-flasher-maemo don't updating (new version conflicts with defaul kernel and modules)17:43
StskeepsGAN900: saw my post on best practices?17:43
GAN900nid0, yeah, no idea17:43
GAN900Stskeeps, nope17:43
StskeepsGAN900: Proposal for Best Practices for working in a MeeGo team on meego-dev/meego-community17:43
mvathresh, 1) no russian here, 2) learn russian transliteration, you're wrong17:44
threshno i'm not.17:45
mvayes, you are17:45
mva:)17:45
GAN900The MeeGo shirts they gave out are so lightweight I swear they're women's. . . .17:45
lcukGAN900, hows your nexus17:45
Anss|that's understandable :)17:46
GAN900lcuk, there's no SIM in it, so, meh.17:46
mvaесли читать так, чтобы в том моем нике была бы "у", то тогда там "кс" вместо "х" и "п" вместо "р"17:46
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mvaа в оригинале - "анти" на английском, а дальше по-русски "христ", но т.к. тут нельзя юникодные ники - подбирались похожие буквы17:47
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mvathat is right way :)17:47
* RST38h_ sighs17:48
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GAN900lcuk, bergie's Nexus One booting to the bootloader because of a low battery was a pretty impressive failure mode.17:49
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pupnikGAN900: next camera should be on top edge of device and rotatable so i can snapshot forward whild looking down at drvice17:50
threshthere's no y in your nick anyway17:50
Khertan_Homeouch ... maybe someone can help me ... how to change my password settings on the maemo website ?17:50
mvayep17:50
mva:)17:50
Khertan_Homedidn't found it in profile page17:50
RST38h_pupnik: Should be made wireless and removable from the device17:50
Khertan_Home:)17:50
RST38h_pupnik: For those tight places that you sometimes want to snap pictures of...17:51
pupniki thought my idea was realistic17:51
RST38h_pupnk: Prolly no: rotatable = mechanics = failure prone17:51
Khertan_Homehum ... the n800 one was well working )17:51
lcukRST38h_, bablyon 5, g'kar had a removable eyeball that did that17:51
Khertan_Home:)17:52
Khertan_Homelol lcuk17:52
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Khertan_Homelook also for a kino in stargate universe ... works well :)17:52
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GAN900Stskeeps, I'm not seeing it.17:56
StskeepsGAN900: hmm17:56
StskeepsGAN900: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-April/001612.html17:57
* ShadowJK wonders if you're allowed to use the report button on tmo to suggest thread merges17:57
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fralslove how i got a shellscript working which when im going through it now shouldnt work at all17:59
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* ShadowJK wonders how bme is driving bq2415018:11
ShadowJKbattery is declining whilst on charger and "battery full" state, but not declining as fast as when not on charger :)18:12
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nid0according to battery-eye graphing, my battery discharge rate is the same when on the charger as when not18:15
nid0in fact if anything on the battery it's slightly faster decline18:15
nid0which would be explained by the green led being lit18:15
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MohammadAGShadowJK, well at least yours doesn't go from 60 to 0 % in one minute (not a redraw thing)18:20
ShadowJKmine goes from 100 to 0 ;)18:20
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MohammadAGin 1 minute? don't think so :)18:21
ShadowJKthe meter shows full bars and lshal|grep percent shows 100 until about 25-30% remaining, where it jumps to 0 and battery low :)18:21
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MohammadAGShadowJK, http://i40.tinypic.com/2l42dg.jpg definition of 60 to 0 in the last section18:22
MohammadAGI also think it's Nokia's profits after releasing the N9718:22
ShadowJKthat looks a bit like a reboot18:23
MohammadAGbut it wasn't one :)18:23
ShadowJKthe jump up, I mean18:23
MohammadAGhmm, maybe it got wrong values and it didn't actually charge?18:24
ShadowJKadd voltage to the graph18:25
MohammadAGhmm, that was less than a week ago, does it keep history?18:25
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n00bmonk3y_WorkStskeeps: Oh clever one........ Am i right in thinking ... harmatten is not meego (obvious i know) ....... but the 2 developments are not directly related?18:26
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MohammadAGnvm, it does!18:26
Stskeepsn00bmonk3y_Work: what?18:27
n00bmonk3y_Workie next maemo development versus meego - and its relation to nokia's infamous step 4/518:27
MohammadAGStskeeps, basically he's saying, are the Maemo 6 and MeeGo teams related?18:28
n00bmonk3y_Workyeah kinda18:28
MohammadAG(and he's thinking they're not)18:28
n00bmonk3y_Workpreferably not inbred too ;)18:28
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ChewtoyAnybody knows where one can get a hold of a foldable bluetooth keyboard?18:28
n00bmonk3y_Workwell i'm trying to understand the relation to the step 4 (ie n900) - step 5 - i assumed harmatten - and did meego just kinda join in the party?18:29
ChewtoyBeen searching for quite some time now.18:29
n00bmonk3y_WorkChewtoy: from a foldable bluetooth keyboard manufacturer ;)18:29
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n00bmonk3y_Worklol sorry not much help i know18:29
ChewtoyThey seem very hard to track down...18:29
* n00bmonk3y_Work thinks i've confuzzled Stskeeps 18:29
nid0n00bmonk3y_Work18:29
Stskeepsn00bmonk3y_Work: you're assuming i know anything about anything18:30
nid0healthcheck needs a promote, no? :p18:30
ShadowJKMohammadAG, upload screenshot of voltage and capacity? :)18:30
n00bmonk3y_Worknid0:  yeah, assumption is the mother of all fcuk ups, but you are clever ;)18:30
n00bmonk3y_Worknid0: 3 days18:30
n00bmonk3y_Workor 2 days now lol18:30
MohammadAGShadowJK, capacity? (voltage coming up)18:30
MohammadAGShadowJK, http://i41.tinypic.com/9sbiwj.jpg18:30
nid0o yeah, i counted days wrong :( 2 days to go18:30
ShadowJKIf batterygraph can do it, displaying both the percentage and voltage at same time18:30
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n00bmonk3y_Work:D18:31
ShadowJKhm, no scale18:31
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n00bmonk3y_Work16/10 votes and i think 3 seniors , so should be ok in 2 days :)18:32
MohammadAGShadowJK, there is one, but it's only visible at the end of the graph (screenie coming up)18:32
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nid0yeah you're covered for the 3 testing squad votes18:33
MohammadAGShadowJK, http://i40.tinypic.com/5ludcl.jpg (not the best scale I've seen)18:33
wazdhello people :)18:33
MohammadAGhey wazd18:34
n00bmonk3y_Workhey wazd18:34
n00bmonk3y_Worknid0: - new version will go into devel tomorrow - and be pumped into testing soon after the promotion18:34
nid0nice, whats new?18:34
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n00bmonk3y_Workgoing to change the navigation and tidy up the styles a bit18:35
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n00bmonk3y_Workalso - adding some better led and pattern tests18:35
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n00bmonk3y_Work+ trying to figure out an ear speaker test18:35
nid0is one of the led tests gonna be cycling through every colour? :P18:35
n00bmonk3y_Workyup18:35
nid0nice18:35
n00bmonk3y_Work+ combination of colours18:35
n00bmonk3y_Workso far  it's about 9 seconds to get the full rainbow effect18:35
nid0did you make a decision on how to stresstest/benchmark btw?18:35
n00bmonk3y_Worknid0: yes... but will not be implemented for a little while, many many tests for me to evaluate and consider18:36
MohammadAG<n00bmonk3y_Work> + trying to figure out an ear speaker18:36
* MohammadAG has ideas...18:36
* n00bmonk3y_Work prods MohammadAG 18:36
MohammadAGcall echo123 using skype :P18:36
* n00bmonk3y_Work is going for a ciggy... will come back to your lovely ideas shortly18:36
n00bmonk3y_WorkMohammadAG: meh18:37
n00bmonk3y_Workshould be easier then that18:37
nid0to stresstest rather than a pure benchmark, anything that attempts to calculate pi or prime number iterations will undoubtedly be the best bets18:37
MohammadAGI was jk anyways :P18:37
ShadowJKMohammadAG, the voltage was in the higher end of low-batteru-warning threshold... In my measurements with the mugen battery, there'd be about 30% remaining (full - shutdown) at that point.18:37
* andrewfblack 's website hit a new high for view in 1 day yesterday18:38
slonopotamushehe18:38
slonopotamus"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge18:38
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dubziiLol18:38
ShadowJKI encountered a General Electric vaccuum pump this week. It didn't suck. :(18:38
ShadowJKon the other hand it was hot enough that I could have made toast18:39
ShadowJKMohammadAG, the battery low before that came at about 3500mV which is far closer to shutdown18:40
ShadowJKit starts dropping fast after that though :D18:40
ShadowJK(shutdown happens at 3200mV)18:40
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MohammadAGShadowJK, it shutdown on 0v before that18:42
ShadowJKeh :)18:43
MohammadAGis there a way to get rid of apt-worker? it annoys me :P18:43
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slonopotamusMohammadAG: mv /usr/sbin/apt-worked /usr/sbin/apt-worker.gone?18:44
slonopotamus:)18:44
* andrewfblack was up at 2am changing google password and running virus scans on windows computers in house18:45
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MohammadAGslonopotamus, and I'm assuming that would make it show errors every day at 12AM? :)18:45
* n00bmonk3y_Work returneths18:45
MohammadAGandrewfblack, I was up at 5AM fixing a package :P18:45
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ShadowJKMohammadAG, looks like you got quite close to 3200mV at one point... The meter doesn't update often enough to accurately catch the rapid fall from about 3300 and down :)18:46
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andrewfblackMohammadAG: 5am I was leaving for work18:46
MohammadAGandrewfblack, I went to bed after fixing it :P18:46
MohammadAGwas up for 24h18:46
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slonopotamuserr... you go below 3500?18:47
MohammadAGShadowJK, you do realize this isn't with a mugen right?18:47
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ShadowJKYes, but voltage behaves the same with all batteries18:47
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MohammadAG<MohammadAG> ShadowJK, it shutdown on 0v before that18:48
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MohammadAGs/0/3227/18:48
infobotMohammadAG meant: <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, it shutdown on 3227v before that18:48
andrewfblackMohammadAG: I built a package last night also : )18:48
MohammadAG:)18:48
MohammadAGandrewfblack, theme?18:48
andrewfblackMohammadAG: yep18:48
* javispedro notes that some -developers messages are appearing blanked in gmane18:48
* n00bmonk3y_Work built a package last night too.... no change there18:49
n00bmonk3y_Workgmane?18:49
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ShadowJKYeah, at 3227 all it takes is to touch the screen and it goes below 3200 for a split second, and the shutdown gets triggered :)18:49
* nid0 built a server last night18:49
DocScrutinizerheh, you battery hackers having fun ?  :-D18:49
andrewfblackMohammadAG: did it all by hand this time sliced images then wrote all the control files and such much more fun then using a program to do it for me18:50
MohammadAGandrewfblack, that's easier sometimes lol18:51
MohammadAGespecially for optification18:51
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MohammadAG~curse 256MB root18:51
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, 256MB root !18:51
DocScrutinizerbtw voltage *does not* behave same way for all cells18:51
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DocScrutinizernot even for cells of same type18:51
DocScrutinizerthere are still subtle diffs in cell chemistry18:52
ShadowJKyes18:52
ShadowJKand differences in internal resistance18:52
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DocScrutinizeryes18:52
andrewfblackMohammadAG: I don't know about that maybe a little easier, my problem is since this theme isn't open source and I needed a .deb instead of source package I couldn't use MADDE an autobuilder to do it for me.  I've never goten Theme Maker to work since it was updated for Fremantle.18:52
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Stskeepsandrewfblack: you can build in the SDK if need be18:53
MohammadAGandrewfblack, I thought there weren't package builders for themes18:53
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MohammadAGthought you used dpkg-buildpackage for that18:53
MohammadAG(with -b for binaries only)18:54
* n00bmonk3y_Work raises an eyebrow18:54
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Stskeepsandrewfblack: did you look into if it's OK to do things like that with the cc sa by 2.5 license, btw?18:54
Stskeeps(reason i'm wondering is because the last thing i would like to see is a C&D from nokia towards you :P)18:55
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I wonder if I could estimate a battery's internal resistance using nothing but an N900 and bw27200 and bq24150 :)18:55
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andrewfblackStskeeps: Yeah since I'm changing the image in the template its ok.18:55
* n00bmonk3y_Work will let the maemo lemmings loose on nokia if they do ;)18:55
Stskeepsandrewfblack: fair enough18:55
andrewfblackStskeeps: I almost got a C&D from Nokia once before18:56
nid0tbh, someone should write a touch lemmings game for maemo18:56
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Stskeepsandrewfblack: oh?18:56
n00bmonk3y_Workyup and get a C&D from nokia..... blasted lemmings18:56
* Stskeeps didn't hear that story18:56
andrewfblackStskeeps: Even wondered why I closed Maemobox.org?18:56
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Stskeepsandrewfblack: ah yes, trademarks18:56
Stskeepsthe sad fact is they have to defend them or lose them :/18:57
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andrewfblackStskeeps:  Not that their are not 1000 websits using it now that are making money off their sites with ads and I was helping hte community with my site.  I could have changed the name and kept it going but I closed it18:57
Stskeepsandrewfblack: :nod:18:58
ZogG_N900who wanted me in here :D18:58
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ZogG_N900stskeeps, it's lame to use grafic smilies in irc chan18:59
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StskeepsZogG_N900: eh.18:59
ZogG_N900try xchat18:59
ZogG_N900so sup guys?19:00
slonopotamus:nod: doesn't really look like a smilie19:00
nid0whats xchat got to do with typing :nod:?19:00
Stskeepsit isn't19:00
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Stskeepsit's an equivalent of *nod*19:00
fralspretty scary when a mod stealth merges threads19:00
guysoft42hi all, does anyone know how to use mbarcode? i seem to have only a scan button, but not sure how its suppose to translate the 2D barcode19:01
ZogG_N900i thoug it's something like :bored:smiles19:01
Stskeepsno19:01
ZogG_N900guysoft42 open lens and scan19:01
ptlwhat will come first, Meego PR1.2 or Maemo PR1.2 ? :P19:01
guysoft42ZogG_N900, ok, and once it sees a barcode?19:02
guysoft42seems to to do anythong19:02
ZogG_N900iphone os 519:02
MohammadAGptl, 201219:02
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: (cell Z) sure - should be a straight forward approach19:02
ZogG_N900guysoft42 u have to lock it in proper way. it would save image and provide url19:02
ptlMohammadAG: yeah but which one will come first?19:02
ptlmeego's or maemo's?19:02
n00bmonk3y_Workfrals: even worse when they stealth merge 2 mega threads..... the servers start leaning sideways ;)19:03
ZogG_N900mohammadag are u from jerusalem?19:03
ZogG_N900?19:03
MohammadAGyeah19:04
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ZogG_N900i'm from tlv19:04
MohammadAGptl, 2010 is when we all die :P19:04
ZogG_N900:)19:04
MohammadAG2012*19:04
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: seems we got several means to probe exact battery voltage, and bq27200 should be able to tell discharge I *avrg* for a iirc 4sec window19:04
MohammadAG(btw I'm jk, don't believe that ****)19:04
MohammadAGZogG_N900, cool!19:04
ShadowJK5.12 sec19:05
ZogG_N900not me. i'll live till pr1.419:05
MohammadAGI'll be going to Jordan soon hopefully19:05
ZogG_N900moving at all or for a while?19:05
ShadowJKiirc voltage is updated every 1.2 sec or something19:05
MohammadAGZogG_N900, you're never dying then :)19:05
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ZogG_N900that's my point19:05
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: so keep power consumption staedy at I(1) for 4sec, read out I and U, then do same for I(2)19:06
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MohammadAGShadowJK, mAhs don't seem to get updated while charging19:06
ZogG_N900so how to jailbreak maemo?19:06
ZogG_N900with whitedus1?19:06
ShadowJKMohammadAG, yeeah nme only updates voltage while charging. and that only if you poke the screen19:06
ZogG_N900:)19:06
BCMM_it isn,t ex€tly jailed to start with...19:07
BCMM_woah, keyboard fail19:07
ptljailbreak?19:07
MohammadAGZogG_N900, no, y3ll0wp3ngu1n19:07
ZogG_N900u fail19:07
MohammadAGptl, he's being sarcastic19:07
ptloh19:07
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: DON't PANIC! ?19:07
ZogG_N900:)19:07
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, so on N8x0 I collected large amounts of per-second I and U and never managed to turn it into any consistent internal resistance :)19:07
ZogG_N900i'm bored on bus19:08
MohammadAGShadowJK, does it have to be on when I poke it? :P19:08
BCMM_docscrutinizer got pretty confused about video encoding19:08
ptlZogG_N900: you can't jailbreak, but you can use a chroot jail :D like in easy-debian19:08
ShadowJKMohammadAG, yes19:08
MohammadAGShadowJK, was jk... :)19:08
BCMM_i presume it needs to be a video that plays in media player?19:08
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: N810 I and maybe U probing might be borked at large19:08
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ZogG_N900ptl i can just hammerbrake it also19:08
ZogG_N900so what is the possibility to port android apps?19:09
ZogG_N900we need java for that am i right?19:09
luke-jrnil afaik19:09
ptlnot standard java19:09
ptl"android" java19:09
ZogG_N900what's the different?19:10
luke-jrandroid might as well be iPhone in that respect19:10
ZogG_N900difference19:10
ptlit has specific classes for androidisms (devices, security model and such)19:10
ptland it uses dalvik to run.19:10
ZogG_N900so it's not possible?19:10
DocScrutinizernope19:10
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ZogG_N900i mean in friendly way19:10
* ShadowJK wants to get all of those stupid "Gold BL-5J 1930 mAh battery"-type crap people find on ebay, and do tests19:11
ptlI find it very improbably that someone does some compatibility layer for people to run android apps in maemo19:11
ZogG_N900damn19:11
ptlBUT19:11
ptlthere's a port of android to the N900 and N8*019:11
ptlcalled NITdroid19:11
ZogG_N900i know19:11
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: get find on ebaeh? please rephrase19:11
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ZogG_N900but i don't need it. i want andego19:11
ZogG_N900andreego19:12
microlithShadowJK: probably a fraction of the claimed voltage, if not lower than a regular BL-5J19:12
microlitherr, capacity19:12
ptlandre klapper's ego?19:12
ptlandreego19:12
ZogG_N900but is it possible to port opensource programs?19:13
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I plan to buy a collection of the different "superbattery" people have found on ebay19:13
ZogG_N900if u port from java at all19:13
ShadowJKand test them19:13
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ShadowJKfor their capacity and internal resistance19:13
ptlZogG_N900: yes, very straightforward indeed19:13
ptlZogG_N900: there are many ports of standard linux apps to the N90019:13
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: sorry, brain kickstart try 1 failed here19:14
ZogG_N900ptl i know19:14
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ShadowJKAlso the "genuine original nokia BL-5J" from DX19:14
luke-jrZogG_N900: Android sucks, simply.19:14
ptlI missed what you might be asking then, ZogG_N90019:14
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: great plan, indeed19:14
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ZogG_N900but they aren't mobile apps19:14
luke-jrZogG_N900: what you want is to run Android and Maemo concurrently, correct?19:15
ptlwell, they become mobile once they're ported. :)19:15
ZogG_N900luke-jr maybe. but there r so many tasty apps19:15
BCMMZogG_N900: it's a normal linux machine, applications are written in C using GTK and the X server19:15
ShadowJKAlthough Nokia itself says they can't tell some genuine and fake batteries apart without disassembly, I'm guessing there should be differences in the internal resistance atleast19:15
ZogG_N900luke-jr nope. i want varity of android apps on maemo19:15
luke-jrZogG_N900: AFAIK, Android's kernel is still compatible with Linux and you should be able to combine it with MeeGo at some point19:15
luke-jrZogG_N900: Android and Maemo GUI are completely different19:16
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: though cell Z is a secondary parameter actually, of minor importance as long as it's not way too high19:16
BCMMandroid is linux of sorts, but with some kernel mods too weird to go upstream and a completely strange userspace19:16
ZogG_N900google is evil19:16
javispedrobecause android is the reincarnation of the BeOS!19:16
luke-jrBCMM: Google and Linux parted ways and Android is officially a fork now19:16
ShadowJKthe bp-4l that came with my n810 has about 5 times higher ir now than when new :)19:17
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ShadowJKmaybe more19:17
BCMMluke-jr: i'd say that's pretty much the same thing19:17
BCMMgoogle isn't evil; all publicly-traded companies tend towards being amoral19:17
luke-jrBCMM: they are already incompatible at the patchset level19:17
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: second source cells either might not meet the abs max ratings, and/or have a way higher self discharge19:17
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luke-jrBCMM: publicly traded companies inherently tend toward evil19:17
BCMMhowever, nokia understands that the open-source community is a good friend to keep19:17
ZogG_N900google helps opensource only for their good19:18
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: Z wouldn't vary much I'd guess19:18
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luke-jrBCMM: Nokia isn't much better19:18
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I guess I could just attach ATX 12V PSU output to them and video what happens19:18
ZogG_N900nokia didn't use opensource as google til now19:18
BCMMi don't think nokia does it out of the goodness of their heart, because they're a company19:18
BCMMbut i think they care more what the open source community thinks of them than google19:19
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: all but the most crappy ones just will trip fuse19:19
SpeedEvilBecause they have less resources to spend.19:19
ShadowJKATX 5V then :)19:19
SpeedEvilMaintaining a fork has its own costs.19:19
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naxuwithout business there wouldn't be maemo/meego19:19
luke-jrBCMM: when you need to use people, you either pay them or are friendly19:20
luke-jrGoogle does the first; Nokia does the latter19:20
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BCMMluke-jr: certainly, but i don't feel that nokia is being exploitative so much as "paying in kind"19:20
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luke-jrBCMM: Nokia refuses to open the important parts, so I certainly feel exploited19:20
BCMMluke-jr: also, you've missed out the possibility of simply pressuring them microsoft-style, which is where google is going19:21
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BCMMluke-jr: actually, i'm kinda ignorant on that one19:21
BCMMluke-jr: which bits are still closed?19:21
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luke-jrBCMM: battery charging is the important bit Nokia has complete control over19:21
BCMMluke-jr: would it be possible to destroy a battery by overcharging without it?19:22
luke-jrthere's also some other bits they don't have direct control over, but I can't blame them entirely for that19:22
SpeedEvilBCMM: hard19:22
luke-jrBCMM: I don't care.19:22
luke-jrit's my battery, I should be able to do what I want with it19:22
BCMMmaybe some safety stuff is in software rather than hardware?19:22
SpeedEvilBCMM: you can ramp up the cycle count when on charger19:22
BCMMthey may be afraid of liability19:22
luke-jrBCMM: maybe I want to make a smart bomb19:22
BCMMwhat i'm saying is that it may not be intentional screwing of open-source19:22
luke-jronce I buy the device, it's no longer Nokia's business to interfere with what I do with it19:23
luke-jrBCMM: closed source only makes it easier to *accidentally* make a smart bomb19:23
nid0thats a laughably blinkered and short-sighted attitude19:23
naxuagain that depends a alot from where in the world you buy the device19:23
luke-jryou can still edit closed source software, it's just harder to do right and requires experimenting19:23
BCMMa little like those wifi manufacturers that are (somewhat ignorantly) concerned that it would be their legal problem if someone modded an open driver to disobey regulatory requirements19:23
nid0whether it's your device and whether you fucked about with the charging software, if you alter it and fuck your device, the headlines bemoaning shitty nokia will still damage nokia.19:23
luke-jrnid0: so let them weigh *potential* damage from bad press in such a situation19:24
naxuthats partly because of stupid miss-use of law in USA19:24
luke-jrwith19:24
DocScrutinizerlucent: actually Nokia has rather little control over your battery charging. It's bq24150a chip that does the charging, even without much help from BME19:24
luke-jrme not buying their new devices19:24
BCMMdown that road lies apple's "if people install shitty applications, they'll blame us"19:24
nid0luke-jr: I imagine they did, long and hard, which is why it's closed.19:24
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: ^^^19:24
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BCMMbut where batteries are concerned, they could genuinly be worried about people hurting themselves and blaming nokia19:25
luke-jrif enough people refuse to buy their stuff, they need to pick: possible risk vs certain loss19:25
DocScrutinizerBCMM: won't happen19:25
nid0and people are still buying their devices, because most people couldnt give 2 shits about whether the battery charging software is open or closed19:25
luke-jrnid0: exactly the problem :(19:25
nid0whereas they have hundreds of thousands of potentially breakable batteries if it's open19:25
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DocScrutinizerwe're about to convince Nokia about they don't need BME19:25
luke-jrpeople need to start standing up for owning their purchases19:25
dotblankHow safe is it to overclock the n900 to say 800mhz? Like can I still use it day to day?19:26
luke-jrnid0: they're already potentially breakable19:26
DocScrutinizerdotblank: no19:26
GAN900dotblank, not at all safe.19:26
luke-jrdotblank: in general, the harm of overclocking is long-term19:26
dotblankDocScrutinizer, how about 700mhz?19:26
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DocScrutinizerno19:26
BCMMi'd like to know about overclocking actually - is the clock limited by default due to cooling or due to battery?19:26
luke-jrdotblank: even if it works, the CPU will die much sooner19:26
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dotblankah ok thanks19:26
GAN900BCMM, due to overvoltage19:27
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dotblankI didn't now CPUs were prone to die..19:27
dotblankknow*19:27
GAN900MTBF goes down rather quickly after 600MHz19:27
luke-jrdotblank: especially modern ones...19:27
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luke-jr1990s generation were designed to last19:27
luke-jrbut since 2000, they're designed to go 3-5 years or so19:28
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dotblankluke-jr, so they are designed to break basically..19:28
naxuperhaps people are not ready to pay for "designed to last" stuff19:28
nid0depends who you ask19:28
nid0<cynic>: designed to break and make you buy new ones19:28
DocScrutinizerdotblank: they are designed to run fast and be small19:29
nid0<realist>: people only tend to use cpu's for 3-5 years anyway before upgrading so why spend billions making them more durable19:29
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dotblankwell I spent a lot of money for my n900...19:29
dotblankI expext my n900 to die from other factors in 3-5 years19:29
DocScrutinizerdotblank: so don't kill it with foolish overclocking19:29
dotblankexpect*19:29
GAN900dotblank, there are realistic limits in technology and costs.19:30
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naxufirst manufacturer limits cpu to run in safe speed to quarantee it doesn't break and then people ramp it up19:30
nid0which is exactly why theyre rated to certain clock speeds to last a reasonable time19:30
nid0you go above the rated speed, it's lifespand decreases19:30
nid0simple19:30
dotblanknid0, is the inverse true?19:30
naxuyeah.. and then blame "designed to break"19:31
nid0sortof19:31
DocScrutinizerdecreases *drastically*19:31
luke-jrdotblank: everything breaks with age19:31
dotblank:( I like my gameboy19:32
dotblankits still going strong19:32
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DocScrutinizernand and flash will wear out19:32
luke-jrdotblank: like, Z80? :p\19:32
nid0I bet it's also spent a lot of time switched off19:32
DocScrutinizereventually, maybe next century19:33
dotblankwait 2-5 years of constant use or average use?19:33
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dotblank3-5*19:33
nid0the mtbf of the chip running at high clock frequencies is measured in hundreds/thousands of hours, and is time actually running at that speed19:33
DocScrutinizerMTBF is rated for operation hours19:33
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luke-jrconstant, but power on/off isn't going to just freeze it19:34
dotblankah.. well it doesn't matter my n900 is usually on 24/719:34
nid0and your gameboy isnt :)19:34
luke-jranyhow, the CPU isn't the only component19:34
dotblanknid0, your point is now very valid19:34
luke-jrin 3-5 years, something else would break too19:34
luke-jrwhy make a CPU to last 10-15 years if the rest will break first?19:35
BCMMi still have my 341019:35
tripzeroyes, but what if overclocking means it only lasts 1yr. or 6months? is it worth the risk?19:35
dotblankWell what is the lifespan of the battery?19:35
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tripzerodotblank, 6hrs19:35
nid0short. battery's replaceable though19:35
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dotblanktripzero, I wish my n900 had a 6hr battery19:36
dotblankmine goes down in about 3-419:36
tripzeroouch19:36
luke-jrdotblank: try not using it19:36
BCMMdotblank: what do you do with it?19:36
dotblankeverything19:36
BCMMyeah, what luke-jr said...19:36
tripzeromine lives at least until i get home from work19:36
luke-jrapparently Nokia thinks you're not supposed to use the device19:36
BCMMwell, you can go out all day waiting for a phone call and it will deal with it19:37
luke-jrit's not a phone19:37
BCMMand if your'e actually doing stuff with it, it will still last longer than most netbooks19:37
dotblankwell I have a car charger now19:37
dotblankso that helps drastically19:37
nid0I do have to wonder why the device has a relatively low capacity battery in it :<19:37
luke-jrmy N810 dies in 15 minutes at most, so I keep it on AC constantly19:37
tripzeromake a solar panel hat19:37
DocScrutinizeralso keep in mind MTBF is the time when HALF of the devices actually FAILED. You got a gaussian curve around that of devices failing more early or which last longer19:38
tripzeroand charge it in your pocket19:38
BCMMnid0: so it can be small19:38
BCMMif you don't mind size, get one of those external things19:38
nid0well, nokia have other batteries the same volume that're more powerful19:38
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dotblankI heard rumors about hi cap batteries19:38
BCMMnid0: oh19:38
dotblankthat one from ebay19:39
nid0bp-4l is a prime example, that's several years older than the bl-5j, has almost identical volume, and is 1500mAh19:39
luke-jrdotblank: it's twice the size19:39
luke-jrnid0: perhaps it can't do as much instantaneously?19:39
javispedroor weights a ton more?19:39
luke-jrI seriously wouldn't mind my handheld being a bit thicker and weighing a bit more19:40
luke-jreven twice the thickness of my N810 would be tolerable19:40
nid0weight's pretty much the same. even if weight was the reason, id gladly take a fractionally heavier n900 for 10% better battery19:40
naxuI believe there is a reason for selecting current battery19:40
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* javispedro 's preferred form factor is still the n810.19:40
dotblanklike my n900 is my lifeline.. If I were to be stuck in a situation I would really really want my n900 and having it die on me is not very reliable19:41
* nid0 's is the e9019:41
Disconnectjavispedro: i'll trade you an n800 and n770 for an n900 :)19:41
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Disconnectfor that matter, i have an e90 also. so pick any 2 :)19:41
* luke-jr 's preferred form factor is still the C760 :/19:41
nid0you'll miss the e90's keyboard if you get an n90019:41
Disconnectok people who's been poking around in my office? got a c760 too :)19:41
javispedroluke-jr: http://www.lexmark.com/publications/pubs_images/c760.jpg :)19:42
Disconnecthttp://www.mobiletechreview.com/sharp_zaurus_C760.htm19:42
Disconnectoops might be an 860. checking.19:44
luke-jrjavispedro: fail19:44
javispedroI imagine :)19:44
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luke-jrspeaking of which, anyone got detailed specs on the new IS01?19:44
Disconnectyah its an 860 on my shelf. should prolly see if it still works one of these days.19:45
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luke-jrDisconnect: my battery is useless19:45
Disconnecti -think- i stored the battery properly, but i won't swear to it. and its been at least a couple years.19:46
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DocScrutinizerthat's definitely NOT a proper storage then19:47
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DocScrutinizeryou must recharge LiIon at least every 6 months19:47
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DocScrutinizerafter a few years of storage odds are it's dead to deep self discharge19:48
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DocScrutinizers/dead to/dead due to/19:49
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: after a few years of storage odds are it's dead due to deep self discharge19:49
ShadowJKI didn't think li-ion discharges itself that fast19:49
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ShadowJKunless it has a hungry chip in it..19:49
luke-jrhttp://au-is.jp/products/images/is01/features/photo03.jpg19:50
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that largely depends on quality of the cell (see my above comment on second source)19:51
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SpeedEvilCharging to 40%, placing in freezer works well19:52
SpeedEvilcharge every few months19:53
SpeedEvil(for me)19:53
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DocScrutinizerif the cell uses a thin separator for good electrical properties wrt capacitance and Z, then any impurities in manufacturing process tend to more likely pierce that separator creating micro-shorts19:53
DocScrutinizerand also more likely goes boom due to same problem19:54
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itdocklol19:54
Disconnectthe manufs tend to call for 90% charge (or so) followed by cool storage (not freezing) and it should be good for months to years. at 100% its good for weeks to months.19:55
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Disconnectbut in any case, maybe i'll break it out this weekend and mess with it19:55
itdockwhat voltage would it be at 40%19:55
* itdock gets out his trusty fluke 11519:55
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DocScrutinizerdepends19:56
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DocScrutinizerit's more about actual voltage than about capacity anyway19:56
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itdockk, what voltage should it be at then19:56
itdock:P19:57
ShadowJKwhat is it at?19:57
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DocScrutinizerso if the cell is less than 4V and more than 3V7 you usually are in the 'green range' for storing19:57
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itdockso 3.7-4v, and in the fridge?19:57
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DocScrutinizer10°C19:58
DocScrutinizeractually 0°..10°19:58
itdockfreezer then19:58
itdockok19:58
X-FadeNew lipos usually have 3.80 - 3.85 when I get them.19:58
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ShadowJKfreezer is -18 :P19:58
DocScrutinizerNON-FREEZING19:59
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ShadowJKnon-condensating helps too ;)19:59
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DocScrutinizeryep, a lot19:59
itdocklol ok19:59
DocScrutinizerplatic bag with silica gel19:59
ShadowJKX-Fade, that sounds right20:01
ShadowJKI think that's where the lowest degradation takes place20:01
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DocScrutinizeryes20:02
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DocScrutinizersome laptops have a 'treat battery gentle' setting, where the cells aren't charged to the max allowable voltage. Supposed to prolong bat lifespan by factors20:03
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DocScrutinizeryet it's probably much better not the keep the battery pack plugged in to a device that warms up the whole thing to 45°+ all the time, while hooked up to mains20:05
SpeedEvilFreezer is -18. But look at the cell datasheets - I haven't found one that says storing at -20 isn't OK20:06
DocScrutinizernot? me did20:07
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DocScrutinizeractually -20 isn't even allowable for all *operational* conditions20:08
ShadowJKThe bq27200 temperature readings scare me20:08
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ShadowJK33 right now. Seen 51C20:09
DocScrutinizerforget the temp readings, they are mostly bogus20:09
DocScrutinizerthat's die temp of the chip afaik20:09
evil|Jonnesmall question about ssh access, what username and password should i use? I don't remember setting one20:09
ShadowJKI guess the ones from gaia's madc would be more useful20:09
PhonicUKanyone know if the quake 2 port uses GLES or is it just software rendering?20:10
fralsam i being silly or isnt it obvious to long tap an image to get a context menu?20:10
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ShadowJKevil|Jonne, it asks you to set a root password when you install openssh. If you've forgotten it, you cn install rootsh and do 'sudo gainroot' followed by 'passwd root' to set it again20:11
DocScrutinizerevil|Jonne: you have set a root password when installing ssh20:11
evil|Jonneok, i'll try again20:11
DocScrutinizeruser has no pw by default, so no ssh into user account20:11
evil|Jonneoh, ok20:12
evil|Jonnei did set one20:12
evil|Jonnetnx, logged in now20:12
DocScrutinizeryw20:12
evil|Jonnecan i set up a pass for user?20:12
DocScrutinizeryes20:12
evil|Jonnemeh, i guess root is fine20:12
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DocScrutinizerevil|Jonne: I suggest to set up decent ssh keys and log in to user by default20:14
DocScrutinizermost convenient, most safe20:14
evil|Jonnei might just do that20:14
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evil|Jonnei'm trying to find a way to have my phone mount wirelessly on my pc when i get home20:15
evil|Jonnewithout having to do anything20:15
kynkycron job every 5 mins ?20:15
evil|Jonnei don't know how to do it yet, i guess whatever doesn't put too much load on my phone20:16
DocScrutinizerwith a ping or sth, yes20:16
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DocScrutinizernah, cronjob on your home PC20:16
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evil|Jonnemaybe i could have a daemon that listens on avahi or something20:17
evil|Jonnehas anyone blogged about something like that yet so i don't have to reinvent warm water?20:18
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DocScrutinizer~nuke avahi20:22
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at avahi ... B☢☢M!20:22
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BCMMhow long does an n900 take to charge?20:28
MohammadAG4 hours here20:28
BCMMhmm20:28
BCMMlonger if you're using it?20:28
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MohammadAGthat's if I'm using it20:28
BCMMgah, xchat is highlighting my own messages20:28
lcukdepends on wind, and usage at the time, radios, screen, cpu etc.20:28
MohammadAGI think it takes 1.5-2h20:28
MohammadAGlcuk, what about gravitational force?20:28
BCMMis there a way i can get xchat to always highlight BCMM, but not automatically highlight everything *said by* BCMM?20:29
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BCMMsorry, that didn't make a great deal of sense20:30
BCMMthis is a computer20:30
BCMM_and this is my phone20:30
lcukMohammadAG, the battery uses the accelerometer to compensate on the direciton of the electron flux flow20:30
lcukto ensure the polarity of the warp core is aligned correctly20:30
lcukor something like that20:31
Proteouslol20:31
MohammadAGlcuk, what if I'm at the north pole20:31
MohammadAGand have the charger in the south pole20:31
lcukyou have frozen nuts20:31
javispedroacccccccccelerometer.20:31
javispedronot magnetometer.20:31
javispedro;P20:32
fralsthats one long fuckin cord MohammadAG20:32
MohammadAGfrals, extensions XD20:32
BCMMhmm20:32
lcukmuch shorter if its been dug through20:32
BCMMwhat's the simplest way to look at accellerometer data?20:32
lcukliqflow20:32
lcukyou can touch it too :D20:32
BCMMi mean, to just get three numbers in m/s20:32
fralsBCMM: wiki.maemo.org should have excellent documentation if you want to use it for programming20:32
BCMMnah, just interested20:33
MohammadAGlcuk, umm, I meant it goes through the center of the earth20:33
MohammadAGi don't have one long enough to go around the globe20:33
BCMMwhat is available?20:33
BCMMthree axes?20:33
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* frals heads back to trying to wrap his head around BCD encoding and HPLMN20:33
lcukliqacceltests20:33
BCMMand is there a rotation sensor, or does one just guess rotation from the direction of gravity?20:33
Jaffatimeless: ping20:34
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Jaffa(or anyone else: kcan a proxy be used with browser in Scratchbox?)20:34
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BCMMi have seen several password management things20:35
BCMMis there any way to integrate with or import from kwallet?20:36
DocScrutinizerbat charge time 3:30 according to Nokia specs in L1/220:36
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DocScrutinizerduring first ~60 minutes excessive power consumption of system will slow down charging, afterwards not20:37
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* slonopotamus managed to drain battery faster than it charges20:38
slonopotamus*manages20:38
SpeedEvilThere is no absolute direction sensor, only the accel.20:38
DocScrutinizerthat's quite possible especially when charging from PC host @ 500mA20:38
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slonopotamusno, even stock n900 charger20:39
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DocScrutinizerhmm that's bad. You really push it to the limits.20:39
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cehtehhuh .. how that?20:40
slonopotamusintensive cpu usage + wifi + bright screen = really fast battery drain.20:40
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cehtehmeans 1.2A at least ..20:40
DocScrutinizerBQ24150 charger chip can supply 1050mA (@ 5V aiui). So that'd mean your system blasts out >5W20:40
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slonopotamuswell, under 100% cpu load n900 lives for 3 hours20:41
cehtehyeah it should melt :P20:41
DocScrutinizernah, you obviously use GPRS or 3G quite a lot20:41
cehtehwell, see the overclocker crowd20:42
* RST38h yawns at the moon20:42
DocScrutinizereven CPU shouldn't be able to suck that much power20:42
cehtehanyone fried his n900 yet?20:42
javispedromoo RST38h20:42
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RST38hslono: how about the top temperature? Transmission seems to bring n900 to the boiling point20:42
RST38hjavis: Heya indeed20:42
slonopotamusDocScrutinizer: using 3g while on charges is a strange thing :) since charger = wall = house = wifi hearby20:42
slonopotamus*nearby20:42
cehtehare there user reachable temperature sensors?20:43
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cehtehtell the battery-graph author to integrate them :P20:43
DocScrutinizercehteh: no, but some trolls electrocuted err -migrated their CPU to senility20:43
Disconnectslonopotamus: ...you gonna install wifi in my car? :)20:43
Disconnectthat'd be sweet20:43
Disconnectthanks :)20:43
slonopotamusDisconnect: you have 220v in your car? :)20:43
DocScrutinizercehteh: you're talking gibberish20:44
Disconnectslonopotamus: 110 actually, but yes.20:44
slonopotamusDisconnect: ricer!20:44
Disconnectjeep. with an ac adapter in it for laptops and the wif's cell (since she lost the car charger). nice leap you made to that conclusion though, but next time be more careful - your pants fell down and your racism was showing..20:45
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slonopotamusyou do 12v -> 110v -> 5v conversion. extremely ineffective20:45
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slonopotamusor cars have 24? can't remember20:45
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jaskamost have 1220:45
* slonopotamus failed to get joke about racism20:46
* DocScrutinizer failed to get any joke20:46
Disconnectslonopotamus: around here at least, ricer is slang for an asian with a lowered sticker-endowed civic or similar. hence the "rice" part.20:47
DocScrutinizer~dict ricer20:47
infobotDictionary 'ricer' a kitchen utensil used for ricing soft foods by extruding them through small holes20:47
slonopotamusmeh20:48
slonopotamusbe more geeky20:48
* DocScrutinizer shrugs and wanders away for more intriguing stuff20:48
MohammadAGlol20:48
slonopotamusor die.20:49
SpeedEvilImpressive.20:49
slonopotamus:)20:49
SpeedEvilI get a maximum load of ~1.5A20:49
Disconnectwhen i'm not driving a billboard i'll consider spending a few hundred on various laptop-to-car adapters for efficiency. until then, the ac adapters are $30 or so :)20:49
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: how?20:49
SpeedEvilRecording video while sending file over 3G, and md5sum /dev/zero at the same time20:50
DocScrutinizerGPRS/3G full blast20:50
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Shapeshifterthis survey was kinda lame. and it's buggy.20:50
SpeedEvilAnnoyingly, the camera mutes the media player - so I couldn't have that at full volume too20:50
BCMMhmm those accellerometer toys are fun20:51
BCMMbut i was looking for something that would give me a value of little-g20:51
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SpeedEvilhmm - mplayer doesn't mute video player20:51
BCMMand allow me to determine which planet i'm on20:51
slonopotamusSpeedEvil: md5sum /dev/zero? and what value did you get?20:51
BCMMsurely that would never return?20:51
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SpeedEvilBCMM cat /sys/whatever/coords - and it reads out x/y/z accel20:52
SpeedEvilslonopotamus: do it and let me know20:52
BCMMisn't /dev/zero an infinite number of nulls20:52
BCMM?20:52
SpeedEvilyes20:52
* slonopotamus charges his n900 from TV :/20:53
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slonopotamussomething's broken in this world20:54
SpeedEvilI suspect using mplayer to record from the big camera, with flashlight on, while streaming a file to 3g, and md5sum of the mmc and sd, with fm transmitter on, fm radio on, and mplayer playing something loud to the speakers, with bounce running would be pretty much the maximum.20:55
SpeedEvilWell - easy maximum20:55
slonopotamusovercomplicated20:55
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slonopotamusjust compile firefox20:55
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SpeedEvilthat only does the CPU20:55
lcukSpeedEvil, you forgot to connect your bt keyboard20:55
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SpeedEvillcuk: yeah - that too - but bt won't add that much. wlan up too at the same time is hard with current software20:56
slonopotamusactually i drsin n900 battery in 2 hours with just browser + 3g.20:56
SpeedEvilI'm sure under 1 hour is quite possible.20:56
fralsgod this encoding is silly20:56
slonopotamusfrals: all encodings are silly20:57
slonopotamususe UTF-8. it's silly too, but at least works for everyone.20:57
spliffyspeedevil: if you want to go faster you need to oc :D20:57
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fralsslonopotamus: in this case its BCD encoding of bytes, but yeah ^^20:57
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slonopotamusmeh20:58
DocScrutinizer(1A5 power consumption) refer NOKIA_RX51_SM_L3_4.pdf, p170 (6 System Module, Energy Management, Power Distribution block diagram)20:58
slonopotamusfrals: you were so excited talking about it so i googled wtf is bcd :)20:58
DocScrutinizersorry scratch that, once again they managed to spoil it at lowest possible level of the game, electric current annotations mostly missing there20:59
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* ShadowJK has seen 1100mA consumption21:06
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BCMManyone know what the n900's value of g is?21:06
microlithg?21:07
DocScrutinizerthe N900 itself probably has some atto-g21:07
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javispedro~answer21:08
infobot4221:08
BCMMhmm i assume it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gravity21:08
* ShadowJK makes a guess: 9.81m/s^221:08
javispedrothere you have.21:08
sp3000timeless_mbp: my one-handed handle abuse survived just finr until 10m before home ;)21:08
* sp3000 had to switch ends21:08
BCMMif so, it's really pretty accurate...21:08
BCMMaccurate enough to notice that UK gravity is slightly higher21:08
N900evilBCMM: it's not21:08
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that's earth's g21:08
DocScrutinizernot N900's21:09
BCMMDocScrutinizer: 9.81 is not correct for all parts of earth21:09
BCMM(9.8 is)21:09
N900evilBCMM: the accelleromedters are specified to +-20% or so sensitivity21:09
ShadowJKI guess n900's g would vary alot depending on where on its surface you were standing21:09
DocScrutinizeryeah, somewhere near core it's much less XP21:09
BCMM9.78 in jakarta21:10
BCMMhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_gravity#Comparative_gravities_in_various_cities_around_the_world21:10
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: correct :-D21:10
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N900evilthere is considerable variance between n900s21:10
DocScrutinizer~question21:11
infobotfrom memory, question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html21:11
BCMM9.81 is basically a british exam board value21:11
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DocScrutinizer~answer21:12
infobot4221:12
timeless_mbpsp3000: ouch21:12
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: N900's g-sensor is a LIS302. Datasheet is publically available21:13
BCMMah, looks like my value of 1008 is much, much higher than any earth value of g21:13
DocScrutinizerN900evil: btw N900 has just one accel21:13
BCMMeh?21:13
N900evilyes - variation between n900s21:14
DocScrutinizerBCMM: no, as you got no clue yet on what the unit of those 1008 actually is21:14
dssterIt has ... ARRIVED21:14
BCMMDocScrutinizer: i assumed it was 1000th of the international standard gravity21:15
N900evilit's nominally milligee21:15
DocScrutinizerBCMM: might be21:15
N900evilbut measured very im.precisely21:15
DocScrutinizerso an error of 0.8% isn't bad21:16
BCMMDocScrutinizer: and it would still be wrong if it was, for some reason, calibrated for mexico city21:16
BCMM(one of the lowest-gravity places on earth)21:16
N900evilit is not calibrated21:16
BCMMoh, it's not bad at all21:16
dssterIt's so awesome21:16
N900evilit assumes a value of 18mg/bit.21:16
N900evilThis varies in reality considerably.21:17
N900evilthere is no per-sensor calibration21:17
BCMMi wonder how accurate it could be if you calibrated it21:17
DocScrutinizersee datasheet21:17
BCMMeven roughly by using an accepted local value of g21:17
RST38hwell it seems to be calibrated to -1000..1000 somehow21:17
N900evilit assumes a value of 18mg/bit.21:17
N900evilthe spec is from 15 to 22 IIRC21:18
DocScrutinizersee datasheet see datasheetsee datasheetsee datasheet21:18
RST38hdatasheetsee?21:18
BCMMRST38h: 1000 is supposed to be a g, you can go much higher by shaking it21:18
RST38has in datashitsy?21:18
DocScrutinizerBCMM: +/2 or +/-8 iirc21:19
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BCMMhmm21:20
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BCMMi'd never throw something so expensive around21:20
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BCMMbut i am tempted to develop a script taht makes it scream if it detects freefall21:20
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lcukBCMM, play n900fly21:21
BCMMlcuk: is that the one that estimates flight time from a throw?21:21
DocScrutinizerhight21:21
BCMMsame thing :)21:21
ShadowJKoh manh21:22
DocScrutinizeryep21:22
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woglinde~seen stskeeps21:22
infobotstskeeps <~chobits@Maemo/community/distmaster/Stskeeps> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 1h 45m 18s ago, saying: 'after working a while with rpm, i'm fairly happy with it'.21:22
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ShadowJKI thought my mp3 player was broken and was just going to disassemble it - turns ou the AAA battery I stole from someone was empty. Who the fuck puts dead batteries back in the box :-(21:22
luke-jrwait... Stskeeps is chobits??21:22
woglindehi luke-jr21:23
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luke-jrhi woglinde21:23
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slonopotamuswoglinde: he is already happy for 105 minutes!21:24
woglindewith rpm21:24
woglindecannt believe it21:24
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woglindehm has somone running a git linux-omap kernel on the n810?21:24
slonopotamusin the past21:25
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slonopotamusit's totally broken currently21:25
woglindeslonopotamus hm could you see dmesg output?21:25
slonopotamuswoglinde: nope, not me21:25
woglindehm okay21:26
woglindeI tried to get it working with kexec21:26
Stskeepswoglinde ?21:26
dssterhow do i type ~ in n900?21:26
woglindeso I can easily switch kernels21:26
slonopotamushaha21:26
woglindeah stskeeps see my linux-omap questions21:26
ShadowJKdsster, fn+sym, double tap ~ from the thing that pops up21:26
ShadowJKif you tap it only once, and then press n, you get ñ21:27
woglindeslonopotamus but without kernel output I cannt see whats going wrong21:27
woglindeat least usbnet seems to work21:27
Stskeepswoglinde: yes, termana - there's a thread on talk.maemo.org21:27
slonopotamusShadowJK: i doubt he has vkb while doing kexec21:27
dssterooh cool ty21:27
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ShadowJKslonopotamus, I didn't know dsster was doing kexec?21:27
slonopotamusah21:27
* slonopotamus messed up21:27
ShadowJKyes :P21:27
luke-jrwoglinde: the time it would take to port mainline or Linux-OMAP to N8x0 would cost me more than a N900 ;(21:28
Stskeepstermana's work seems pretty ok :P21:28
luke-jralso, kexec is untested mostly AFAIK21:28
luke-jrStskeeps: I haven't checked it lately21:28
Stskeepswoglinde: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4892921:28
woglindeMeeGo hardware adaptation for N8x0?21:29
woglindeah thanks21:29
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luke-jrhttp://elinux.org/N80021:29
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luke-jrhmm21:30
woglindeluke-jr yeah this side I already read21:30
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luke-jrTermana hasn't updated it21:30
woglindeand I have kernels21:30
woglindebut not kernel output21:31
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johnsqHi21:31
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woglindehms okay21:32
woglindehere is no good omapfb driver for N8x0 for Xorg sadly21:32
woglindefrom stskeep21:32
Stskeepswoglinde: use Xomap, or help write one :P21:32
wazd1damn, e63 gets new firmware like every month :)21:33
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luke-jrwoglinde: fbdev works21:33
woglindeluke-jr okay what I have to compile to see it?21:33
woglindewith which patches?21:33
lcuktech heads: how many times can i safely flash a device before it starts to lose its marbles21:34
dssterhmm i cant figure out why it doesn't want to type it in. It's selected but it wont type it out21:34
Stskeepslcuk: i have flashed my device an obscene amount of times21:34
woglindelcuk a lot21:34
lcuk:) thats good to know21:34
* lcuk is also being a little obscene atm21:34
woglindehi lcuk21:34
luke-jr~seen termana21:34
infobottermana <~bradley@CPE-138-217-247-42.lns2.wel.bigpond.net.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 7h 55m 33s ago, saying: 'ScriptRipper: Didn't you have some sort of release you had to work on that was important, rather than try to (for no needed reason) justify yourself to us? :P'.21:34
lcukhiya woglinde :)21:35
woglindeluke-jr?21:35
luke-jrwoglinde: ?21:35
Stskeepswoglinde: there's links in the end of the thread for kernels i thin21:35
Stskeepsk21:35
luke-jrStskeeps: any idea where Termana's git trees are?21:35
wazd1I wonder if symbian handsets will receive all that fancy symbian ^3 stuff21:35
woglindeluke-jr I fear he has none21:36
woglindeluke-jr so I dont need anypatches from you right?21:36
dssterI think maybe sip doesn't recognize ~ as a valid character? possible>21:36
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woglindehm21:37
woglindehttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=604049&postcount=121:37
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luke-jrwoglinde: I don't do patches.21:38
luke-jrhttp://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/linux-omap/n8x0 is all my work21:39
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woglindehms21:39
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woglindewhy stskeeps write it then21:39
woglindeOriginally Posted by Stskeeps  View Post21:39
woglindeOn a silly sidenote: I had MeeGo base system running on my N810 with 2.6.33 kernel (+ Termanas, luke-jr's patches) some weeks ago.21:39
luke-jrwoglinde: presumably he means the diffs in my git branches21:40
woglinde*g*21:40
Stskeepswoglinde: i used one of termana's kernels21:40
Stskeepswhich was based on luke-jr's wor21:40
Stskeepsk21:40
luke-jrStskeeps: Termana have a git tree?21:41
fralsDOH, just my luck, my operator isnt in /etc/operator_settings21:41
fralscould someone do me a favor and run dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=com.nokia.phone.SIM /com/nokia/phone/SIM Phone.Sim.read_hplmn21:41
fralsand tell me what operator they are using and in what country so i can use it as test for my algo?21:41
lcukfrom which firmware?21:41
fralsshould work on any21:41
SpeedEvilfrals: pastebinning output21:41
lcukthen someone else can :) im tied up21:41
* andrewfblack needs to focus on themes when he gets home tonight and not play video games all night21:41
lcukmaemo is a video game21:42
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woglinde*g*21:42
supertramphola21:42
supertrampguys - is there some quick way how to enable /var/log/wtmp?21:43
woglindeluke-jr but with your .config I see kernel output on the display right?21:43
luke-jrI think so21:43
lcukquestion: is there a command line way to create and configure a wifi net configuration21:43
lcukso i can shove it in MyDocs and just run it after reflashing21:43
Stskeepslcuk: gconf mayb21:44
Stskeepse21:44
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lcukwithout mucking with full restore21:44
lcukpossibly Stskeeps21:44
lcukneed to look at how backup does it - ive typed net settings in so many times today21:44
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fralswoho my algo is working \o/21:45
fralsnow just to parse that darn file21:46
lcukheh21:46
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lcukStskeeps, i think the ash cloud is after you21:47
lcukhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7592774/Volcanic-ash-cloud-spreading-towards-London-forecast.html21:48
lcukforget the london bit - it went over .dk and now its turning round to get you!21:48
fralsover dk hell its over .se21:48
Stskeepslcuk: if this continues, i'm pondering if i can fly on tuesday :P21:49
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fralsall air traffic over sweden closed from 22 localtime21:49
lcuki think a lot of people are21:49
* lcuk curses net connect21:49
fralsthis better clear up before im going to hel or im taking the boat over :P21:49
woglindevolcanic ashes wow21:49
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lcukworst part, i thought iceland had a smoking ban21:51
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SpeedEvilSunset should be pretty - hopefully21:52
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Stskeepsfrals: hmm, when are you flying up?21:52
frals25th21:52
Stskeepsah21:53
fralsgoing back home the 27th21:53
fralsassume im gonna miss you again? ;)21:53
Stskeeps:nod:21:53
fralsdoh :<21:54
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fralswell atleast i can ambush vdvsx this time for sure21:54
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* lcuk waits patiently21:55
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* frals distracts lcuk with bacon21:56
fralswhat you recompiling?21:56
* lcuk munches contentedly whilst waiting for something to finish something21:56
fralsah, reflashing :P21:56
lcuki reflashed already21:56
lcuknow ive configured system and doing something else21:56
frals:D21:57
fralsbtw your wlan ap's are saved at /system/osso/connectivity/IAP21:58
lcuko_O curious, ill try something in a minute then21:58
lcukthanks21:58
* lcuk cannot stop the process thats underway21:58
lcukyou are a bastard frals btw21:59
fralso_O21:59
lcuki wasnt hungry till u mentioned bacon22:00
frals:D22:00
woglindebacon22:00
lcukfrals, "/system/osso/connectivity/IAP" is not a folder - is this gconf as sts suggested22:01
fralslcuk: uh yeah, gconf22:01
fralssorry for not making that clear22:01
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* lcuk is just distracted22:02
lcuki opened folder on other device and though "hold on"22:02
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timeless_mbp /var/lib/gconf/....22:10
timeless_mbpyou can use the file system22:10
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timeless_mbpit's just officially wrong to do so :)22:10
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timeless_mbpnote that w/ maemo5 the accesspoint names are no longer gconf keys22:11
timeless_mbpso you kinda need to use grep22:11
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lcuktimeless_mbp, supposing i just have one22:18
lcukits for personal use i just need to restore access point settings very often22:19
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_henke_yo ppl22:19
lcukhi henke22:19
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dmj726_n900anyone else looked at clutter-box2d?22:20
woglindeluke-jr still there?22:20
_henke_anyone using fish encryption in xchat ?22:21
_henke_i cant load the fish.so file22:21
_henke_says it cant find it22:21
_henke_but im pointing at it via gui22:21
_henke_anyone have any ideeas ?22:21
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woglindeI dont have an aquarium22:22
_henke_why not woglinde ? :-)22:22
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_henke_can i access the installation path of applications ?22:23
_henke_coz xchat prefers that u copy the plugins to its plugin dir22:24
N900evilfish.so is not an arm binary?22:24
lcuk_henke_, xchat on n900?22:24
lcukbecause if so, the .so you have is likely not there22:24
_henke_lcuk yeah it works nicely22:24
lcukbecause it will be built for x86 i bet22:24
N900evilyou cannot just load x86 binary plugins22:24
_henke_ah okey22:24
lcukwould be fun if you could22:24
_henke_u got a point there22:24
N900evilIIRC someone looked at building for arm, and it was nasty.22:25
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_henke_hmm really22:25
rolandhallo???22:25
_henke_that wasnt the news i wanted :-p22:26
_henke_but thanks for the heads up N900evil22:26
N900evilgood luck.22:26
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rolandsome germans here??22:26
_henke_no22:26
_henke_:-)22:26
woglinderoland no22:26
woglinde*g*22:26
timeless_mbplcuk: well, officially you'd use gconftool-2 or the backup app22:27
rolandbut experts???22:27
luke-jrwoglinde: no22:27
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woglindeluke-jr I forgot the question anyway22:27
DocScrutinizer get a new kbd, your questionmark key is broken22:27
woglinde*sigh* kernel crashed again22:28
MohammadAGumm, any way to spoof a DNS?22:28
MohammadAGaka fake it22:28
lcuktimeless_mbp, thanks ill dig more next time it annoys me22:28
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DocScrutinizer MohammadAG: etc/hosts?22:29
rolandokay. i need help with installation the sdk... can some help me plz???22:29
N900evilhelp with what aspect?22:29
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rolandgui installer: ..... failed: 4/9 installing sdk targets22:30
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, not a local one22:30
DocScrutinizer next tripple-? will earn you a kick :-/22:30
woglindeargs22:30
woglindeI tried the false kernel22:30
MohammadAGbasically i'm trying to spoof the DNS being replied/sent to the PS3 (which is connected via a linux box as a proxy)22:31
ruskieMohammadAG, run your own DNS server22:31
MohammadAGroland, what are you going to use it for anyways22:31
ruskieand make it resolve that22:31
N900evilinstall bind22:31
ruskieor maradns22:31
ruskieor powerdns22:31
ruskieor any other dns server22:31
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ruskiehellp dnsmasq should do it22:32
MohammadAGhmm, will try that, but i doubt it'll work22:32
rolandbloody beginning of creating a little app...22:32
MohammadAGtrying to fake sony's DNS22:32
MohammadAGroland, what language?22:32
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ruskieI debated if I wanted a phat or a slim decided to go with a slim22:32
rolandgerman22:32
MohammadAGo.o22:32
ruskieso don't have this issue... though still sucks22:33
woglindehurray22:33
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woglindeit worked22:33
woglindeokay22:33
woglindeI can see the kexec menu22:33
MohammadAGruskie, well, it's not a slim/phat issue22:33
woglindeokay22:33
MohammadAGit's the otheros22:33
ruskieMohammadAG, slim doesn't have otheros22:33
ruskie:)22:33
MohammadAGif you're on 3.15, you can install cfw to enable it22:33
MohammadAG   ^22:33
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woglindenow I only need to integrate kexec on 33.122:33
ruskieMohammadAG, anyway have no wish for it22:33
MohammadAGyou sound like you updated though22:33
MohammadAG@ ruskie22:34
noobmonk3yhmmmmmm22:34
ruskieMohammadAG, there are some existing DNS servers that spoof it22:34
johnsqwoglinde: 2.6-omap on n810?22:34
ruskieMohammadAG, so you just need to set them up in the PS3 and it should work22:34
MohammadAGruskie, running linux without acceleration sucks, but I need it for homebrew (not piracy crap, against it)22:34
MohammadAGruskie, they were blocked yesterday22:35
rolandInconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed!22:35
rolandE: Scratchbox command 'sb-conf setup' returned error 0.22:35
rolandV [21:15:13 15.04.2010]: Failed to install SDK22:35
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MohammadAGactually, the day before22:35
rolandthese are the logs22:35
MohammadAG13/0422:35
ruskieOT here22:35
woglindejohnsq unfornatly 2.6.33.1 vanilla with some patches from Termanas, luke-jr's22:35
MohammadAGNOT*22:35
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MohammadAG:)22:35
ruskiesee PM ;)22:35
MohammadAGroland, use the scripts, I hate the GUI22:35
rolandwhat scripts???22:36
johnsqwoglinde: when everything works, than it makes no difference.22:37
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woglindejohnsq plain vanilla has none kexec-arm stuff22:37
woglindebut I will try now the .config on git22:38
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DocScrutinizer roland: second warning!22:40
woglindejohnsq could think is I can test the kernels without flashing22:40
woglindeflashers is good in that way22:40
woglindeups flasher22:40
rolandwarning? why?22:41
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johnsqwoglinde: would be good, i have always trouble with my self build kernels.22:42
MohammadAGI love this country22:42
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MohammadAGhttp://gizmodo.com/5518002/ipad-imports-banned-in-israel22:42
luke-jrwoglinde: what? nobody has vanilla remotely working afai22:42
luke-jrk22:43
woglindeluke-jr????22:43
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luke-jrwoglinde: it's linux-omap + patches, not vanilla22:43
woglindeyes I said this22:43
luke-jromap22:43
luke-jrnot vanilla22:43
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woglindevanilla + patches22:44
luke-jrno22:44
luke-jromap + patches22:44
DocScrutinizer~tell roland about question22:44
woglindeluke-jr Termanas 33.1 patches are against vanilla22:45
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luke-jrwoglinde: it's impossible to get the display working with vanilla...22:46
luke-jrunless his diff includes all of linux-omap, which would be insane22:46
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woglindeluke-jr I am not lying22:47
woglindeplease look at his patch22:47
woglindemaybee its whole linux-omap22:48
woglindehttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=604110&postcount=222:48
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dssteroh man just got the n900 seems all im doing is updating for the past hour :(22:50
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dssterwoot 1.3ghz stable22:58
BCMM_don't cook it22:58
dssterlol just kidding i wont overclock my new n900 just yet :)22:58
BCMM_or yourself22:58
dssterIn a week or so :)22:59
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toresbeOverclocking the N900 seems a bit silly to me...22:59
dssterit is completely silly22:59
dssterthis thing is a monster22:59
toresbeThough I suppose it might feasibly have a positive effect on the battery22:59
toresbeif power consumption increases slower than computing speed, that is23:00
dssterthat's undeclocking23:00
toresbeNo, underclocking hurts battery life23:00
dssterBecause it takes more cycles to go to a lower frequency?23:01
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dssterI've read about that just a few days ago, makes sense i guess23:01
toresbeno -- because time spent working at a slower frequency is still taxing the battery23:01
toresbemuch better to get the task out of the way quickly so the CPU can suspend nearly completely23:01
dssteroh, yeah makes sense too23:02
toresbehttp://mjg59.livejournal.com/88608.html23:02
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aepbtw, any idea why my n900 won't go lower then C1? complete fresh flashed23:04
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toresbeaep: afaik it might just be the CPU that doesn't go into a less responsive state23:09
aepwell it did when it was new23:09
toresbehmh.23:10
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kamuithat sounds silly23:15
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SpeedEvilaep: some things stop it23:16
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SpeedEvilaep: try as a first cut turning off wifi, and killing all apps but an xterm23:17
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DocScrutinizer poertop23:19
DocScrutinizer powertop even23:19
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DocScrutinizer dsster: toresbe: the whole topic is to be found when googling for 'run for idle', and SmartReflex is supposed to take care about optimizing to the sweetspot between long active periods with low clockfreq and short acticity bursts at high performance which take unproportionally more energy per cpu op23:23
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DocScrutinizer together with cpufrq-governour and other sw and probably hw bits23:24
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t-tana kernel with low voltage and 500-850MHZ gives me the best battery performance23:30
t-tanthe repository queue is broken again...23:30
Shapeshiftert-tan: you got some graphs to support that?23:33
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DocScrutinizerlol23:33
GAN900Hehe23:34
t-tanShapeshifter: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=609777&postcount=268623:34
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ShapeshifterI heard SmartReflex is broken. Is it, and how could this be fixed?23:34
DocScrutinizerBS23:34
javispedroyeah, "idle" time?23:35
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: Debug the causes for it not working.23:35
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: Fix them.23:35
Shapeshiftert-tan: well. Could you do a more sane "idle" test with like, say, 2G always on, always online in some 3 jabber accounts with regular email checking?23:35
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: so it is broken?23:36
aepSpeedEvil: i did try all of this. there is nothing waking it up. it just refuses to go below C1.23:36
t-tanShapeshifter: pay TI to fix it.23:36
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: Some devices are unstable.23:36
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: ahh, okay.23:36
aepunfortunately i lost the powertop binary for maemo :/23:36
t-tanShapeshifter: please try it yourself. the are zillions of scenarios and every user has a different usage pattern. find your optimum23:37
SpeedEvilt-tan: I would personally be very cautious of believing what batterygraph is saying.23:37
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SpeedEvilt-tan: Especially extrapolations like that.23:37
t-tans/the/there/23:37
infobott-tan meant: Shapeshifter: please try it yourself. there are zillions of scenarios and every user has a different usage pattern. find your optimum23:37
SpeedEvilShadowJK has a tool that reads out the instantaneous current average over the last 5 seconds.23:37
SpeedEvilThis is - IME - a much more consistent tool.23:38
javispedrodid someone already beat my 95h idle record?23:38
t-tanif what else should I trust? if all battery parameters tell me that the battery is hardly discharging...23:38
MohammadAGIME?23:38
SpeedEvilOr rather - the cumulative average over the 5 second period23:38
SpeedEvilIn my Experience.23:38
t-tanwhere is that tool?23:38
* SpeedEvil pings ShadowJK.23:39
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: take that: 26h active23:40
t-tanjavispedro: you slept for 95h? ;-D23:41
javispedroactive doing what? :P23:41
SpeedEvilI've had ~30 hours or so on wifi + ssh +xchat23:41
javispedrot-tan: no, it was on Nokia Care for nearly a month and since I had all my data on the N810 and was lazy to pass it over I kept using the n810.23:42
SpeedEvilIt gets down to maybe a fifth of that in the most deepest sleep with wifi on but nothing running - xchat adds a fair amount23:42
t-tanwe need some proper automatized battery benchmarks. BTW, LCD consumes most of the energy23:43
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DocScrutinizeronly on 100%23:44
fralsjavispedro: idle as in doing nothing and just being left alone? pretty sure i have that beat23:45
DocScrutinizerof my 26h, the LCD was on ~50%, though at very low brightness23:45
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javispedrofrals: idle with wi-fi, skype, 30 minute modest and on mostly 1-2 hours max.23:46
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fralsah, negative on that :p23:46
javispedroskype was the worst offender IMO.23:46
fralsforgot my dev device was on when i left, got back 4 days later and it was still on, but no wifi active during that time23:46
javispedroI should repeat that some day without skype.23:46
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Shapeshiftersersiously, I don't know what you're doing with your devices. The only way of getting to the end of the day without an empty battery is by not using the device. I get up in the morning at like 10:00 and go online on 4 jabber accounts. I go out of the house connecting to 2G and browsing the web at crawling speeds for half an hour. If I'd use 3.5G for half an hour, that would cost me at least like 10% battery. I occasionally check my ...23:48
Shapeshifter... mail during the day or send a few IMs and again browse the web on the way back. At 18:00, I have 25% left if everything worked well.23:48
javispedroyes, I am talking about not using.23:48
javispedroit.23:48
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javispedrowith 100% CPU and screen on (snes) I get top 3 hours and a bit23:49
Shapeshifterthe battery life is utter crap on the n900. I'd use it soo much more if the battery would last. Yeah ok I'll get another battery but seriously, all the people saying they're getting 30h out of it "having the screen on 50% of the time"..... you're not really using it, are you.23:49
Shapeshifterjavispedro: yeah same here with VGBA.23:49
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DocScrutinizerBattery endurance:: Battery  BL-5J // Capacity (mAh) 1320 //  Talk time Up to 9 h (GSM) Up to 5 h (WCDMA)  //  Stand-by  Up to 10 days GSM  Up to 10 days WCDMA23:50
fralsShapeshifter: im not using any IM accounts, guess that why mine lasts me 2 days when "using" it23:50
Shapeshifter9h talk time >.>23:50
javispedroI can believe 9h talk time23:50
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Shapeshifterfrals: maybe, as it will be almost completely idle when you're not having the screen open23:50
fralsie browsing, always synced with mfe on day time23:50
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Shapeshifterfrals: 3G?23:50
fralsyeah23:51
frals3/3.523:51
N900evilt-tan: lcd doesn't use that much - backlight at high brightness is lots more23:51
Shapeshifterfrals: you're not using it... ^^23:51
Gh0styany app which switches automatically between 2g and 3g23:51
fralsor well, the second evening i plug it in23:51
Gh0styor any app which switches off automatically wifi when not used?23:51
fralsShapeshifter: i only use it while on the move, when im stationary i got my laptop ;)23:51
t-tanN900evil: I meant the backlight23:52
Shapeshifterfrals: sure. but if I enable 3G battery life drops significantly. I'm practially stuck with 2G just because of battery life23:52
javispedroShapeshifter: ditch GSM and use Wi-Fi, and your browsing figures will be in half-days instead of hours.23:52
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fralsShapeshifter: :<23:52
* noobmonk3y is backing up frals and fmms again............ in tmo...... i just dont get why other people can't read........23:53
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* javispedro can easily get 6-7 hours of browsing Wi-fi out of it, which is around n8x0 figures. First test I did... counting number of boring lectures ;P23:53
Shapeshifterjavispedro: at the university I only have wifi with VPN, and for some reason that is extremely unstable on the n900, unusable really. I connect to wlan, then use vpnc. I can browse for 2 minutes, then the wlan loses connection and then reconnects, but then I need to kill vpnc and rerun it.23:53
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fralsnoobmonk3y: cheers - i cant be bothered much anymore23:53
noobmonk3yhehe, with them, not fmms i hope ;)23:53
t-tancurrent with screen locked ca. 360, with 4/5: 1000, with 5/5: 135023:54
fralsnoobmonk3y: yes, with users, fmms i still have some things to be fixed in23:54
Shapeshifterif wlan + vpn was stable, it would be another story, but it's unusable.23:54
noobmonk3yhehe ;)23:54
frals*glances at teh ever-growing to do list*23:54
Shapeshifterrockstable on my laptop btw.23:54
Shapeshifterusing vpnc as well.23:54
hefferapt-get autoremove would remove kernel-maemo and kernel-modules-maemo. does this sound like a good idea?23:54
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_henke_heffer no :-)23:55
t-tanheffer: if you have kernel-power-flasher installed, it's fine23:55
* DocScrutinizer gets really bored by all this "eeew my 600MHz CPU eats more power than my wristwatch! And why can't I TX data over GSM @ 2W TX power - with a battery load of not more than 200mW??" whining23:55
hefferi knew it :)23:55
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hefferi have kernel-flasher-maemo23:55
hefferbut i purged that because i don't use it anymore23:55
hefferis it okay to do so?23:55
* noobmonk3y looks at healthcheck...oh how i like the simple life ;)23:55
javispedroShapeshifter: so, get your uni to change. I did that on mine when they were using expired certificates 5 years ago...23:55
t-tandid you reflash the stock kernel?23:56
* lcuk swaps with noobmonk3y for a day23:56
hefferyes i did23:56
* lcuk has been checking health of things all day23:56
Shapeshifterjavispedro: sorry? It _does_ work flawlessly on my linux lap top with the same AP and same distance. just the n900 loses the connection after 2 minutes.23:56
hefferas it is described in the package description23:56
t-tancheck with uname -a23:56
heffermy uname -a is: Linux Nokia-N900-51-1 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Thu Dec 17 09:40:52 EET 2009 armv7l unknown23:56
t-tanok, remove it23:57
heffergreat. thanks23:57
* lcuk kicks mail client on ubumtu23:57
javispedroShapeshifter: you're talking with a person that: a) When the Palm T|X didn't work with his uni's certificates he fixed his uni b) When the N810 didn't work with his Uni's PAP he fixed the N8x0 in what later took Nokia a year and a half (and still counting) to fix it.23:58
javispedroWi-Fi _is_ this thing.23:58
hefferthanks for your help guys. it's much appreciated!23:58
tremnite all, sweet dreams23:58
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: but really, I don't think I'm expecting too much of a mobile device. 2h of 3G surfing, all day IM online and regular mail checking *should* be possible. If this, by design, is impossible, they pretty much failed at reaching a sane target. For all I care they should have stuck a fatter battery in it. clearly. ;)23:58
* frals kicks lcuks ubumty23:59
* frals kicks lcuks ubumtu*23:59
* javispedro passes a fedora livecd to lcuk23:59
* lcuk flashes frals machines23:59

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