IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-04-15

GAN900	question "App deployment"	00:00
GAN900	Another appstore question	00:00
GAN900	Individual app stores or global	00:00
GAN900	"Compliance test hosted by LF to use MeeGo brand"	00:00
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GAN900	App store is different question	00:00
GAN900	per-manufacturer appstore, it sounds like.	00:01
nid0	crazy tbh	00:01
GAN900	"It may change in the future, he doesn't know	00:01
lcuk	time for my app store store	00:01
GAN900	. and done	00:01
lcuk	who wants an app store?	00:01
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GAN900	Gonna rest my thumbs for the panel and prep for Imad later.	00:01
Khertan	lcuk : we can share one ...	00:01
* GAN900 goes in for thumb surgery.		00:02
Khertan	lcuk : paypal paiement is already working	00:02
lcuk	you want an app store store too?	00:02
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Stskeeps	who's the guy on stage atm?	00:02
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: incredible! thanks a lot!	00:02
javispedro	Jim Zemlim if the subtitle is to be believed.	00:02
* Texrat taking donations for GAN900 thumb surgery. It will be open sourced		00:02
Myrtti	it is indeed	00:02
Khertan	thx GAN900	00:02
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*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo \| http://maemo.org/ \| http://maemo.nokia.com/ \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org/ \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| Free software mirror: http://espejo.freemoe.org/"		00:03
lcuk	Texrat, hes having meetings with nokia	00:03
GAN900	No problem!	00:03
GAN900	Thanks for reading. ;)	00:03
lcuk	they will take the pain away	00:03
GAN900	lwn recommendation	00:03
javispedro	where do you want the karma trucks? front of the house?	00:03
* GAN900 plugs mwkn.net		00:03
lcuk	:) GAN900 nicely done	00:03
lcuk	you were a secretary in a previous life	00:03
BCMM_	thumb surgery?	00:03
GAN900	Hehe	00:03
BCMM_	lost the stylus and need smaller thumbs?	00:04
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* Texrat taking applications for GAN900 thumb surgeon. Must be willing to televise and explain procedure		00:04
GeneralAntilles1	Wee	00:04
GeneralAntilles1	Exercise my other fingers now.	00:04
* DocScrutinizer hands 'fastest N900 typer ever" award to GeneralAntilles1		00:04
GeneralAntilles1	Guy beside me is staring at my OS X Mini 9	00:04
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n900-dk	Could you guys explain to n00bs like me in few words, what was just going on?	00:05
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lcuk	GeneralAntilles1, hes staring at your super thumbs	00:05
* Texrat prepares to punish Generalantilles1 for netbook blasphemy		00:05
BCMM_	gah, it's me!	00:05
BCMM_	i must've started xchat	00:05
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javispedro	Texrat: bring in some ice for gan's thumbs	00:05
javispedro	i'm pretty sure one of those kernel kernel hackers will be able to do some surgery :)	00:06
Texrat	he's making fun of me for stylus use, but at least my stylus doesn't bitch	00:06
DocScrutinizer	n900-dk: + other 'noobs' - gan900 was livetwittering from a talk	00:06
GeneralAntilles1	Christ	00:06
GeneralAntilles1	The freaking stylus	00:06
GeneralAntilles1	This aint the 770	00:07
GeneralAntilles1	tap tap tap	00:07
Texrat	eat me, neighbor	00:07
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles1: get a beer!	00:07
lcuk	he cant	00:07
* javispedro envisions the scene and jiggles		00:07
lcuk	needs opposable thumbs to hold it	00:07
GeneralAntilles1	DocScrutinizer: open bar in 4 hours!!!	00:07
DocScrutinizer	eeew	00:07
GeneralAntilles1	jiggles?	00:07
GeneralAntilles1	Gross.	00:07
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n900-dk	guess it wasn't a talk with his mum..	00:08
Myrtti	pwuh	00:08
GeneralAntilles1	n900-dk: Ari Jaaksi talking about MeeGo at the Linux Foundation Summit in SF	00:09
* Texrat looks forward to open bar		00:09
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javispedro	LG to join the Linux Foundation	00:10
MohammadAG	the foundation is doomed :p	00:11
GAN900	Damn, red batt	00:11
Proteous	and cute/sad beeping	00:11
Texrat	Nokia needs the competition re LG	00:11
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: time for the spare :-)	00:12
Myrtti	was there honey at the coffee service? I desperately need something antiseptic for my throat. These cough drops with benzocaine just numb...	00:12
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X-Fade	Ugh. "Kernal developer" ;)	00:12
X-Fade	Nice typo	00:12
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Texrat	Myrtti I am so sorry I did not recognize you when you chewed me out for being antisocial	00:13
* DocScrutinizer blinking anfrily at his LG TV with the abyssmal firmware		00:13
DocScrutinizer	angrily	00:14
javispedro	James must have looked at GAN's mini 9 too.	00:14
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DocScrutinizer	Texrat: GAN900: pizza service? they deliver beverage as well	00:15
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GeneralAntilles1	Damn	00:15
GeneralAntilles1	Closed my netbook while changing batts	00:15
DocScrutinizer	huuh?	00:15
GeneralAntilles1	Er	00:15
GeneralAntilles1	N900 batteries	00:15
DocScrutinizer	aah	00:15
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DocScrutinizer	:-(	00:16
Myrtti	Texrat: it happens at every geek community gettogether. Birds of a Feather happens automatically	00:16
Myrtti	people and their comfort zones, keeping company with people you already know	00:16
GeneralAntilles1	Bleh, N900 is frozen now	00:16
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javispedro	rsi selfprotection, it's forcing you to rest	00:16
javispedro	nokia cares about us	00:16
Texrat	Myrtti I do want to chat with you though	00:17
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: lol	00:17
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Texrat	I am not worried about comfort zones ;)	00:17
GeneralAntilles1	Because he's a creeper	00:17
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: a whole new class of apps - rsi protection, reaction time tests with car ignition blocking...	00:18
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* RST38h yawns and goes to sleep		00:18
* Texrat jabs Generalantilles1 with stylus		00:18
n900-dk	How many of you guys are at the summit in SF?	00:18
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Texrat	all of us	00:19
GeneralAntilles1	About 8 or 10	00:19
DocScrutinizer	all, but only virtual ;-)	00:19
javispedro	3.	00:19
Myrtti	I can lend you my N800 kekekekeke	00:19
DocScrutinizer	thanks to rapid reporter GAN900	00:19
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GeneralAntilles1	If anybody has any issues they want me to bug people about at the workshop tomorrow. . . .	00:20
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: that's been an int or an emoticon?	00:21
javispedro	a lie.	00:21
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javispedro	GeneralAntilles: naa, we prefer you to keep on ircing everything your eyes see >:)	00:21
GeneralAntilles1	kernel discussion	00:22
GeneralAntilles1	To lazy	00:22
GeneralAntilles1	Too	00:22
Khertan	hihi with oc ?	00:22
javispedro	yeah yeah forget about kernel	00:22
javispedro	rest	00:22
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles1: anyway keep in mind we by no means want any blobs on meego	00:22
GeneralAntilles1	It's goddamn hot in here	00:22
GeneralAntilles1	They need to turn on the AC	00:22
GeneralAntilles1	Too many overclocked N900s in the room. . . .	00:23
DocScrutinizer	lol	00:23
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DocScrutinizer	"No Sir, that's not been a cigarette"	00:23
javispedro	clearly, the discussion's very hot	00:23
GeneralAntilles1	"I'm not ducking work. I'm giving other people an opportunity to come into the community"	00:23
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GeneralAntilles1	rpm vs deb!!!!!	00:23
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Texrat	how can I sit next to generalantilles1 and be in a different weather zone?	00:24
X-Fade	Hey is Jamie there too?	00:24
DocScrutinizer	I am community. You're welcome to join me?!	00:24
GeneralAntilles1	X-Fade, haven't seen him	00:24
GeneralAntilles1	Henri is sitting in front of me	00:24
javispedro	if we ever implement a karma donating system, and somebody shoots .deb rules!! out loud I will give him all my tmo posts karma </lie>	00:24
GeneralAntilles1	Myrtti's a few rows back	00:25
X-Fade	Thought I spotted him in the audience.	00:25
GeneralAntilles1	dneary is floating around somewhere	00:25
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DocScrutinizer	rulez!	00:25
DocScrutinizer	with capital Z	00:25
DocScrutinizer	:-P	00:25
Texrat	someone said rpm? drink!	00:26
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DocScrutinizer	sounds like 'Life of Brian'	00:27
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javispedro	where to bang in the kernel with a hammer is $999	00:28
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* DocScrutinizer considers to do some 'real work' and prepare a paper for stskeeps		00:29
Texrat	we old farts have value!!!!!	00:29
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DocScrutinizer	anyway something's wrong with my workplace ergonomy. Foot soles shouldn't be higher than keyboard	00:31
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n900-dk	Sounds like a perfect workplace :)	00:33
DocScrutinizer	maybe I could licence this to Guantanamo	00:33
javispedro	aha, he must be a university professor	00:34
BCMM_	anybody know what the other applet in this screenshots is? http://maemocentral.com/2009/12/15/how-to-turn-your-n900-into-a-flashlight/	00:34
X-Fade	Yeah, typical ;)	00:35
BCMM_	or indeed if there is a GUI way to take photos from the front webcam?	00:35
DocScrutinizer	BCMM_: which one?	00:36
DocScrutinizer	other applet?	00:36
BCMM_	DocScrutinizer: the first	00:36
DocScrutinizer	there are several	00:36
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BCMM_	the one above flashlight in the first screenshot	00:37
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BCMM_	with a picture of a camera and a webcam	00:37
BCMM_	was wondering if they represented the two cameras in the n900	00:37
DocScrutinizer	the two small ones are from load applet and create screenshot (right) and allegedly screen stream or sth	00:37
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DocScrutinizer	no cams, both a different flavours of screenshot utilities	00:38
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javispedro	he just told him to go fix it himself :)	00:38
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Texrat	n900 battery at 50%... time to leave internet	00:39
DocScrutinizer	webcam never worked for me. screenshot became obsolete with ctrl-p	00:39
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BCMM_	DocScrutinizer: ah; thanks	00:39
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trem	nite all, sweet dreams	00:39
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM_: ""webcam"" which is actually supposed to create a videoclip of your screen in action	00:40
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solrize	n900's have suddenly gotten more expensive :(	00:41
DocScrutinizer	and in fact it creates a video file somewhere, alas it's always been empty or black for me	00:41
DocScrutinizer	solrize: WHAT??	00:41
GeneralAntilles1	clapping for Android	00:41
GeneralAntilles1	booo	00:41
solrize	doc, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875205178	00:42
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DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles1: please invite them here, so I can kickban them ;-P	00:42
javispedro	do it loudly, preferably	00:42
solrize	i think they were almost $100 lower a few weeks ago	00:43
javispedro	they promised us some kernel developers would talk. who are all those kernal [sic] developers?	00:43
GeneralAntilles1	James Bottomley, Novell	00:43
GeneralAntilles1	Jon Corbet, LWN.net	00:43
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: no need	00:44
GeneralAntilles1	Christoph Hellwig	00:44
solrize	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49400 hmm, looks like there was a shortage	00:44
javispedro	just joking about the subtitles	00:44
GeneralAntilles1	Ah	00:44
GeneralAntilles1	OK	00:44
javispedro	which actually say "Kernal" :)	00:44
* GeneralAntilles1 is tired and helpful! ;)		00:44
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javispedro	GeneralAntilles: relax those fingers!	00:44
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javispedro	lol.	00:44
GAN800	Wee, purty cloak	00:44
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X-Fade	Hehe :)	00:45
GAN800	Only about 2 years later!	00:45
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X-Fade	GAN800: Ssssssh!	00:45
X-Fade	Some people do real work, you know :)	00:46
solrize	"I ordered one from Dell USA s they lowered the price to 440USD+tax . I thought Nokia may release an upgrade for N900 on the 13thApril." (from that thread)	00:46
Myrtti	juice box time	00:46
GAN800	X-Fade, who, Freenode?	00:46
GAN800	:P	00:46
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javispedro	hah, GAN wasn't clapping!	00:46
MohammadAG	GAN = General Antilles, wow, that took me time	00:46
DocScrutinizer-8	heh GAN800	00:46
solrize	so, symbian is open source now, right? does that mean if i get an e63, i can program it?	00:46
MohammadAG	(a lot of it XD)	00:46
GAN800	javispedro: kernel sucks!	00:46
GAN800	solrize: no	00:47
MohammadAG	solrize, there are custom ROMs, but it's not the open source symbian on the E63	00:47
solrize	ic, thanks	00:47
MohammadAG	which is Symbian^3	00:47
solrize	there are very cheap e63's on newegg now	00:47
GAN800	Imad is up	00:47
solrize	seems like a generally nice phone	00:47
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javispedro	ok. LOL.	00:48
javispedro	Apple should hire the guys who writes the titles	00:49
Myrtti	uhoh.	00:50
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GAN800	Chart showing company kernel contribution by version	00:50
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GAN800	Nokia is #5	00:50
GAN800	Intel is #2	00:50
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GAN800	Big Oracle spike at 2.6.29	00:51
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GAN800	Works takes place upstream yadda yadda yadda	00:51
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javispedro	meego!	00:54
javispedro	MeeGo, the best of Mobling and Maemo, fully open source software platform, Common set of APIs across devices	00:54
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ptl	ditching deb for rpm,...	00:55
GAN800	If you want a transcript of this talk, refer to my notes from Ari's talk earlier.	00:55
javispedro	er.... Moblin :)	00:55
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Myrtti	er. what are these people in a row before me doing? they're rocking themselves back and forth...	00:57
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Myrtti	it's not THAT boring talk!	00:57
GAN800	lol	00:57
SpeedEvil	fa	00:57
SpeedEvil	typing	00:57
Myrtti	(also using Windows XP, IE6 and Outlook)	00:57
GAN800	Myrtti: hit them.	00:58
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DocScrutinizer	now for real F**K-YOU - how would I cancel a LF registration?	01:00
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DocScrutinizer	Qty 1, Item: livestream - 0$, place in cart and fill form about maiden name of your grandma	01:01
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DocScrutinizer	~lart videostreaming webmaster of LF	01:02
* infobot says "boot to the head" and knocks videostreaming webmaster of LF over		01:02
GAN800	Fast Boot — how to make x86 not suck so much for mobile use	01:03
javispedro	what has x86 do with boot time? :)	01:03
DocScrutinizer	not that much	01:04
javispedro	yeah, ms-dos boots in, like, a nanosecond.	01:04
GAN800	javispedro: well, setting aside Maemo 5's crippling fail with long uptimes, x86 needs fast bootin/shutdown to save power. :P	01:04
DocScrutinizer	and x86 sucks on mobile use no matter what	01:04
GAN800	Well, that	01:04
GAN800	Forgot the sarcasm tags. ;)	01:05
javispedro	touché.	01:05
GAN800	They dropped 10 from the version	01:05
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* ShadowJK wonders how fast swap to local nbd server deadlocks :D		01:06
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DocScrutinizer	GAN800: what's been your internet while twittering? wlan? 3G?	01:07
GAN800	WLAN	01:08
GAN800	+1 second ping time	01:08
DocScrutinizer	yeah	01:08
GAN800	lol	01:08
GAN800	good question	01:08
GAN800	Here comes the brand fscking confusion	01:08
DocScrutinizer	wondered how you'd manage to type the '2nd' line in less than 1sec	01:08
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X-Fade	Who is that guy?	01:09
GAN800	No idea	01:09
GAN800	I'm all the way across the room	01:09
X-Fade	He knows his stuff at least ;)	01:09
ShadowJK	is this recorded for later viewing?	01:09
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GAN800	(front left, 4th row, middle)	01:09
GAN800	ShadowJK: was last year	01:09
DocScrutinizer	GAN800: so make that more like 5..10sec ping worst case	01:09
javispedro	hah	01:10
javispedro	I love that g uy	01:10
* ShadowJK is happy his operator fixed 2g, now I can probably stream music all night :D		01:10
javispedro	poke him so that he asks about .deb	01:10
GAN800	Haha	01:10
nid0	why're they fixating on skype and flash instead of just saying "gsm drivers will stay closed"	01:10
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: hooray	01:10
GAN800	nid0: because they wont?	01:11
GAN800	See oFono	01:11
GAN800	Well, sort of	01:11
X-Fade	ofono still needs the closed drivers :)	01:11
DocScrutinizer	gsm stack will keep closed for a loooong time	01:11
ShadowJK	128kbit AAC fits nicely in EDGE :)	01:11
javispedro	yes, he should have ran out of the room	01:12
DocScrutinizer	I'd be happy with a full fledged 3GPP AT interface though	01:12
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DocScrutinizer	pnatd is kinda crappy wrt that	01:13
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X-Fade	Ok, time to go to sleep. Long day.	01:14
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javispedro	yeah, gnite.	01:14
X-Fade	I'll see the fallout tomorrow ;)	01:14
DocScrutinizer	n8 X-Fade	01:14
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SpeedEvil	First rule of fallout - run at 90 degrees to wind direction.	01:15
DocScrutinizer	hmmm	01:16
DocScrutinizer	pondering that advice	01:16
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DocScrutinizer	seems like running away under the rain	01:16
DocScrutinizer	well maybe with a car, and sufficient distance to ground zero	01:17
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BCMM_	where on earth is "Video clips" on the real filesystem?	01:19
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SpeedEvil	/home/user/MyDocs/.videos/	01:19
DocScrutinizer	in some friggin hidden directory	01:19
BCMM_	(i've made a nice little video, 10x10 white pixels by one frame, and left it there)	01:19
BCMM_	(going to replace the hands bootup video)	01:19
BCMM_	mine has no sound...	01:20
DocScrutinizer	oooooh	01:20
BCMM_	thanks, didn't think of hidden directories	01:20
SpeedEvil	Well - some videos take quite little cpu to play	01:20
BCMM_	unless of course there is some "start up silently" option somewhere	01:20
SpeedEvil	So there may be almost no effect on boottime of doing that	01:20
BCMM_	SpeedEvil: it's the noisemaking that bothers me	01:21
SpeedEvil	the video is kicked off in /etc/*	01:21
SpeedEvil	ah	01:21
BCMM_	well, bootup is almost all diskbound on machines with disks	01:21
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DocScrutinizer	a lot of people attribute all kinds of negative notions to this particular video	01:21
BCMM_	maybe with a 600mhz processor and an SSD that isn't so	01:21
SpeedEvil	BCMM_: quite fast disk - it goes at 13M/s read or so	01:21
BCMM_	i don't mind it, i just don't want it making any noises till i've had a chance to mute it	01:22
BCMM_	so the machine definitely isn't waiting for the video then?	01:22
DocScrutinizer	nope, probably not	01:22
BCMM_	i presumed not	01:22
BCMM_	hmm	01:22
n900-dk	BCMM_: you can disable the video	01:22
BCMM_	n900-dk: how?	01:23
DocScrutinizer	nevertheless it's taking up time to setup the DSP for playback, and it's ugly and eats battery XP	01:23
BCMM_	at some point i might make a copy of the hands video and strip out the sound	01:23
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DocScrutinizer	make a 'DONT PANIC' video :-D	01:24
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DocScrutinizer	in big friendly letters	01:24
BCMM_	DocScrutinizer: that is a very brilliant idea	01:24
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BCMM_	i wonder if there is a lower frame-rate limit on that video	01:25
DocScrutinizer	I know ;-P They appreciated it for OM Freerunner	01:25
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BCMM_	or whether i could just have a tiny video consisting of two identical "don't panic" frames at 0.2fps	01:25
BCMM_	DocScrutinizer: eh?	01:25
DocScrutinizer	http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/bootsplash/dont-panic.splash	01:26
DocScrutinizer	occasionally I recycle my own ideas XP	01:27
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n900-dk	BCMM_: The app Powatool will do it for you	01:28
DocScrutinizer	http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/bootsplash/readme	01:29
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM_: (framerate) anyway for a static content the diff-frames are next to 0, so framerate doesn't matter so much	01:35
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BCMM_	hmm just ned to make it landscape	01:37
DocScrutinizer	heh, evacuate Finland, Volacno attack ;-P	01:37
BCMM_	how did you do that glowing effect?	01:37
DocScrutinizer	the artwork has been done by dos1	01:37
DocScrutinizer	/join #openmoko-cdevel and ping him	01:37
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BCMM_	hmm	01:38
BCMM_	i'm trying to find a scan of the book cover	01:38
BCMM_	i'm sure there was an edition that actually had big friendly letters	01:38
BCMM_	maybe on the back	01:38
BCMM_	i don't know which book	01:38
DocScrutinizer	actually the png is much better than the book cover (YMMV)	01:38
BCMM_	the one i'm thinking of had kinda rounded multicoloured ones i think	01:39
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BCMM_	what is the n900 screen res again?	01:41
till-	800x480	01:42
lbt	what's that calendar/PIM suite for Maemo called?	01:43
lbt	nm GPE...	01:44
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ptl	BCMM_: 800x480, 16 bits color depth	01:49
Myrtti	I wouldn't mind if they'd kill the music, it is so much harder to overhear interesting discussions now	01:49
DocScrutinizer	BCMM_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdUwlSwifHw&feature=related 0:45 .. 1:50!!	01:50
Myrtti	I have a feeling I've seen this talk before	01:51
DocScrutinizer	BCMM_: HTH. :-) Don't forget to give proper credit (to me for the idea ;-P)	01:53
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odin_	Hmm OVI store app on E72 is really broken for me, we thought Maemo was bad but	02:00
ShadowJK	:)	02:01
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jd4200	Am I able to change the user name (on my n900) so when I load x-term it does something other than user (any harm in doing so?)	02:02
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jd4200	**shows	02:02
odin_	yeah maybe thats somethign to lodge a "personalization" process of renaming the "user" account	02:03
DocScrutinizer	noooo dont!!	02:03
odin_	but sure you can setup another user, but I don't think renaming it would be wise	02:03
DocScrutinizer	user is hardcoded to several apps	02:03
odin_	several "broken" apps !	02:03
jd4200	DocScrutinizer: Ah, that could be why my N900 failed to boot and I had to do a reflash	02:04
DocScrutinizer	the right way would be to 'adduser', the 'su -l newusername'	02:04
odin_	well adduser is not good either	02:04
jd4200	How about changing the root password, anyharm in doing so with that?	02:04
DocScrutinizer	no, perfectly safe	02:04
odin_	it should be an advanced personalization matter	02:04
odin_	if apps want to hardcode something, then sure hardcode the userid number and do a lookup	02:05
GAN900	I could watch that air traffic animation all day.	02:06
DocScrutinizer	odin_: yesyesyes	02:06
DocScrutinizer	tell to Nokia	02:06
Myrtti	me too	02:06
SpeedEvil	I want multiple accounts too.	02:06
MohammadAG	I only want root (muhahahaha)	02:06
DocScrutinizer	I want xdm	02:06
SpeedEvil	So I can give a friend my n900 to play games on without them seeing my plans for world dominoation.	02:07
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: exactly	02:07
jd4200	One other thing, is there a way for when I load x-term is uses bash as the shell? (I miss my .bashrc :( )	02:07
* MohammadAG hates how wildcards don't work with killall		02:08
MohammadAG	I wanted to killall *	02:08
SpeedEvil	kill 1	02:08
SpeedEvil	kill -9 1	02:08
odin_	yeah... like profiles for different times of day.... one profile for when you are with the mistress... and another for the wife....	02:08
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MohammadAG	1 root 1620 S /sbin/init	02:08
* MohammadAG likes that		02:09
odin_	complete with their own galleries/contact-lists etc...	02:09
MohammadAG	it doesn't die lol	02:09
odin_	infact useful for when you have two wives....	02:09
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MohammadAG	odin_, or three!	02:09
odin_	why yes... you have a whole 32bit user-id space to work through !	02:10
SpeedEvil	That's about to fail soon.	02:11
SpeedEvil	More than 4 billion females on planet.	02:11
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radic_	someone the woh wahnt the endsieg	02:18
radic_	?	02:18
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odin_	OVI store is a joke	02:19
DocScrutinizer	hmmpf, I fail to find sizeof(uid_t)	02:19
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odin_	its taken me 5 goes to get E72 logged in I browse, pick something, them asked to login again to download	02:20
odin_	now it doesn't accept my details	02:20
DocScrutinizer	regarding the fact even process ID is 0..2^15	02:20
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DocScrutinizer	i dont think uid has a 32bit	02:21
odin_	the nagivation is all wonky, the text input cursor does not follow the highlighted focus part	02:21
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odin_	yes there are 32bit UIDs	02:21
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GAN900	Preventing community	02:23
GAN900	load the stream!	02:23
DocScrutinizer	huh?	02:23
GAN900	good talk	02:23
odin_	maybe not veyr relevant to Maemo but Kernel has CONFIG_UID16 option to disable 32bit UIDs	02:23
DocScrutinizer	odin_: I'd be surprised this isn't set for maemo	02:24
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Treibholz	yeah! I just imported the first calendars via CalDAV! :-)	02:24
odin_	even 64bit IA32 Fedora has 16bit UIDs, its just an option that is possible with Linux	02:24
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DocScrutinizer	so what's been wrong with >>[2010-04-15 01:21:14] <DocScrutinizer> i dont think uid has a 32bit<< then?	02:25
GAN900	community growth causes global warming	02:25
DocScrutinizer	fine! much too frosty here	02:26
odin_	well 32bit is the maximum, if you want 32bit UIDs you just recompile	02:26
odin_	(the kernel) all the userspace syscalls are already 32bit wide, that pain is over	02:26
DocScrutinizer	so what? I never said I want 32bit UID	02:26
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odin_	no you claimed "i dont think uid has a 32bit" and that is untrue.... "yes it is POSSIBLE to have a 32bit uid" its more a configuration preference than anything major	02:27
DocScrutinizer	my point was more like "you can't have users for >32k women on N900"	02:28
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odin_	I never commented on the matter of "what you want" or "your needs" just on your claim	02:28
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, you make me wonder if I'm starting to brainfail, or it's just you	02:29
* odin_ takes a look at N900 p0rn collection ....		02:29
* odin_ thinks there are more than 32k women there....		02:29
* odin_ scratches head		02:29
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* odin_ hopes for 48Gb of eMMC in the next one ... grins		02:30
* SpeedEvil hopes for 0GB of eMMC in the next one.		02:30
SpeedEvil	(and a second SD slot)	02:31
odin_	yeah I'd be all for all storage to be replaceable like that scheme, but I'm not for using OneNAND as rootfs	02:31
odin_	OneNAND for journal/2nd-level-buffer-cache with rootfs on MMC	02:32
odin_	also swap-cache, make it a storage/IO resource and find a way to make it take all the write hit and provide faster reads for the data you really want to get at fast, but not for tiny rootfs brokeness	02:33
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zash	a generetic copy-on-read fs!	02:34
odin_	there is nothing wrong with have block from MMC copied/shadowed into OneNAND for faster access, having the MMC filesystem journal entirely on OneNAND, interfacing the swap file with OneNAND	02:34
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odin_	well it also has a high-write-counter property doesn't it ?	02:35
* Arkenoi hopes widgets will stop crashing alltogether with PR1.2		02:36
odin_	so thats good for swap and EXT3 journal, there is no need for the EXT3 journal to sync every 30 seconds it can do it one an hour on an idle device, in that time you can eat all the writes	02:36
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Arkenoi	the most annoying thing with the crash is that crashed state get saved and you cannot get it all back with simple reboot	02:36
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odin_	yeah I've had some widget oddness before now	02:37
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odin_	also when you reboot the X11 display should contain a shuting down progress indicator and it should kill the widgets and apps before the X11 server	02:37
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DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: it's highly unlikely though that widget crash is related to OS version directly	02:38
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Arkenoi	well, maybe not OS version but desktop gets updated as well	02:39
DocScrutinizer	a crashing widget is a process with a bug. That bug won't probably be fixed after a mere PR1.2 update	02:40
MohammadAG	widget crashes happen here too	02:40
MohammadAG	but not very often	02:40
MohammadAG	maybe once every two months	02:40
MohammadAG	or twice every four months :P	02:40
odin_	yep OVI store wont let me download jack, even through I can sign-in	02:40
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, kick yourself, you said PR1.2 :P	02:41
DocScrutinizer	to fix a ceashing widget you prolly want to update the widget, not the OS or display manager	02:41
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: you'd actually break my expectations when not uttering this comment ;-)	02:42
Arkenoi	crash takes them away by bunches, not by one	02:42
DocScrutinizer	or short: I knew you'd say that	02:42
MohammadAG	:)	02:42
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* MohammadAG does a /cs op :P		02:43
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MohammadAG	like it works anyways :p	02:43
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Arkenoi	say, after a crash i see that some widgets are vanished: conversation inbox, foreca weather, recorder, ussd, command execution and dataplan monitor. media player and calendar may remain meanwhile.	02:43
MohammadAG	everything about the new macbook pros is excellent... except...	02:44
MohammadAG	$2,199.	02:44
Treibholz	MohammadAG: and the Operating-System.	02:44
MohammadAG	indeed	02:44
MohammadAG	I think we can all say Windows and Mac OS X suck :)	02:45
DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: so if you actually knew the sequence all the widgets are processed in one thread, you could spot the one that blew chunks and spoiled it for the remaining widgets	02:45
Treibholz	MohammadAG: Linux sucks too, it just sucks less.	02:45
MohammadAG	Treibholz, err..	02:46
DocScrutinizer	Arkenoi: it's either the last one that made it on the screen, or the first one missing	02:46
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Arkenoi	well, how can i know the order?	02:47
godrik	MohammadAG ++	02:47
DocScrutinizer	hmm, good question	02:47
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* Arkenoi does not like Apple LCD displays		02:48
Arkenoi	low DPI	02:48
Arkenoi	and touchpads	02:48
Arkenoi	actually i do not like touchpads at all, ibm/hp clitoris is much better	02:49
MohammadAG	err	02:49
MohammadAG	you sure about that word?	02:49
godrik	Arkenoi: I agree, clitoris are great!	02:49
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Arkenoi	well, it is officially named differently but i forgot the word	02:50
Arkenoi	touch-something	02:50
* DocScrutinizer cackles		02:50
Arkenoi	or track-something	02:50
DocScrutinizer	G-point	02:50
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MohammadAG	LOL	02:50
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* MohammadAG wonders what google would call a hotspot service, if they made one		02:51
godrik	Well, it's actually next to G on most keyboards	02:51
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MohammadAG	that thing sucks	02:51
MohammadAG	I have 3 input devices alread	02:52
MohammadAG	y	02:52
MohammadAG	a G point would just make them 4	02:52
Arkenoi	well, the screen issue does matter more for me. i want decent resolution and dpi, which means 1900x1200 for 15"	02:52
MohammadAG	my screen is 1024x768	02:52
MohammadAG	xD	02:52
* satmd would call his gf a 'device'		02:53
satmd	+not	02:53
* Arkenoi lol		02:53
DocScrutinizer	some blog about fitt's outlaw called trackpoint a torture instrument	02:53
godrik	satmd: depend whether she is robotic or not :)	02:53
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* satmd doesn't even call his bot chii like that		02:54
* MohammadAG wants an N810		02:54
DocScrutinizer	bots are frequently female it seems	02:55
DocScrutinizer	~ignore DocScrutinizer-8	02:55
* infobot sticks her fingers in her ears. "La, la, la! I can't hear you, DocScrutinizer-8!"		02:55
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satmd	and they include an off button	02:57
satmd	usually	02:57
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lcuk	someone just used mbarcode	03:03
lcuk	to see chris dibona's 2d	03:03
lcuk	(collaboration summit)	03:04
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* Arkenoi wishes mbarcode and flashlight will block internal camera app from launching someday		03:04
Arkenoi	it is really annoying and makes android users laugh	03:04
* SpeedEvil wishes flashlight is orthoganol to camera.		03:04
SpeedEvil	With an alternate way to turn it on that does not use v4l	03:05
lcuk	i wish mbarcode just used the recent photos list	03:05
lcuk	so use the normal camera app and all its niceness	03:05
lcuk	flashlight should be in the camera app itself	03:05
Arkenoi	virtual "share" plugin that will look for barcodes?	03:06
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: (alt. way for LED) sysfs node - once more	03:19
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DocScrutinizer	ad for flashlight to be a part of cam-app I think those LEDs as much related to the camera as the uSD slot is	03:22
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GAN900	Wow	03:22
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GAN900	free Nexus One	03:23
DocScrutinizer	I.E. two distincr subsystems just incidentally cooperating on particular tasks	03:23
GAN900	Will it Blend?!	03:23
DocScrutinizer	hehe	03:24
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DocScrutinizer	(flashlight/torch a subfunction of cam-app) in fact it's highly undesirable to crank up the powerhog camchip just for a torch function	03:27
ShadowJK	I guess you need to look in the driver whether cam chip gets powered up?	03:29
DocScrutinizer	if torch was a reasonable subfunction of camera, then audio recorder was as well. And we end in iPhone madness	03:30
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ShadowJK	Speaking of madness, the "no portable software, please" ban amuses me	03:31
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: I dunno for the driver, but I know the flashlight LEDs have a dedicated controller chip unrelated to the cam chip. So they're no different to e.g. LCD backlight or indicator & kbd light	03:31
ShadowJK	yeah	03:32
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DocScrutinizer	and they deserve a decent ../leds/flashlight/ set of sysfs nodes	03:33
DocScrutinizer	(ban) err, what's the issue? iPhone? never heard of	03:34
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DocScrutinizer	(the ban)	03:34
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ShadowJK	basically 3d engines, portability libraries and stuff like that are banned now	03:35
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odin_	I have no idea what goes on in iPhone world	03:36
odin_	who is banning via what punishment?	03:36
ShadowJK	Apps must be native iphone apps written solely for iphone, no "adaptation layers"	03:36
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odin_	ah that 'ol route to world domination	03:37
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nez	I for one welcome our new overlords	03:37
odin_	yes they can inherit their hell	03:37
lcuk	how come they just let a browser through which runs javascript (however limited) and renders html	03:38
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lcuk	thats an adoption layer	03:38
nez	opera mini runs the javascript on the remote server?	03:38
ShadowJK	did they let through opera mini?	03:39
nez	yes	03:39
nez	ShadowJK: you're referring to apple, correct?	03:39
ShadowJK	yeah	03:39
nez	mhmm	03:39
nez	it's currently the #1 app in the store right now	03:40
nez	...and to think my good old N800 had Opera on it	03:40
ShadowJK	that's another thing I guess, ad-hoc enforcement of their own rules, and making up new ones on the fly and only applying them to specific apps :)	03:40
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DocScrutinizer	otherwise you would lose respect and fear of the overloards	03:42
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DocScrutinizer	keep acting unpredictable, otherwise others will predict what you do and you lose your advantage	03:43
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DocScrutinizer	especially I seem to remember browsers were one of the application classes explicitly prohibited for appstore	03:44
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MaceG1	Weird	04:09
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opdf2	they need to let adobe in	04:31
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bjv	How do you set the tablets X key repeat delay?	04:56
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bjv	VNC is sucking, and i bet repeat delay is set to like 250ms	04:56
bjv	hm, xset770 is apparently a thing	05:01
bjv	i dont want to set ~individual keys for no-repeat though..	05:04
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opdf2	lol just realized there was an ovi store	06:03
opdf2	i dont like that ovi isnt included in app man	06:03
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crashanddie	~action	06:18
* infobot forgets what action did.		06:18
crashanddie	~cut	06:18
crashanddie	~scope	06:18
crashanddie	~answer	06:18
infobot	42	06:18
crashanddie	~thanks	06:19
infobot	sure thing, crashanddie	06:19
crashanddie	~whoami	06:19
infobot	you are crashanddie, or ~cb09b989@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie on #maemo and it's 2010.04.15. Don't believe me? Ask lpotter!	06:19
crashanddie	lpotter: are you sure?	06:19
crashanddie	~ask me something	06:19
crashanddie	~bored	06:20
infobot	La ... lalalala ... beer!	06:20
crashanddie	~beer?	06:20
* infobot has disconnected (Read error: 99 (Connection reset by beer))		06:20
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crashanddie	~nice	06:20
infobot	i heard nice is prime example of SuperJuan, or a good term for GNOME a derogatory term meaning bland, boring, feeble, or just crap. Example: That's a nice haircut. a city in france, or a program that will run a program with a modified scheduling priority (from -20 to 19, where 19 is the lowest).	06:20
crashanddie	~joke	06:20
infobot	A bhuddist monk goes to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything!"	06:20
crashanddie	~hitme	06:21
crashanddie	~lobotomy	06:22
infobot	I feel different somehow.	06:22
crashanddie	~lobotomy GeneralAntilles	06:22
* infobot pulls out a rusty saw to perform a lobotomy on GeneralAntilles		06:22
crashanddie	~awesome	06:22
infobot	awesome is, like, a synonym of cheese.	06:22
crashanddie	~cheese	06:22
infobot	from memory, cheese is pure awesomesause. I love cheese.	06:22
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crashanddie	~awesomesause	06:23
crashanddie	~qotd	06:23
infobot	somebody said qotd was "Documention is like sex: when it is good, it is very, very good; and when it is bad, it is better than nothing."	06:23
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crashanddie	~fact	06:26
infobot	An automated system for managing small snippets of information.. URL: http://projects.ticons.com.au/fact/	06:26
crashanddie	~trivia	06:26
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opdf2	anyone using recaller? updated it now its...	06:27
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DocScrutinizer	~literal lobotomy	06:49
infobot	"lobotomy" is "<reply> I feel different somehow."	06:49
DocScrutinizer	~literal lobotomy x	06:49
* infobot pulls out a rusty saw to perform a lobotomy on x		06:49
DocScrutinizer	ploymorphism, nice :-)	06:50
DocScrutinizer	~literal "lobotomy x"	06:50
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DocScrutinizer	listkeys lobotomy	06:53
DocScrutinizer	~listkeys lobotomy	06:54
infobot	Factoid search of 'lobotomy' by key (3): jargon lobotomy ;; lobotomy ;; cmd: lobotomy (.*?).	06:54
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slingr	ok	07:17
slingr	so when i got my phone a couple weeks ago I knew it had two previous owners. now that i'm getting to know my phone more i'm finding a lot of their left overs. so i guess what i'm wondering is if there is an easy way to send my phone back to complete virgin or something similar	07:18
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DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	07:25
infobot	aw, gee, DocScrutinizer	07:25
crashanddie	~listkeys DocScrutinizer	07:27
infobot	Factoid search of 'DocScrutinizer' by key (2): docscrutinizer ;; docscrutinizer #DEL#.	07:27
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DocScrutinizer	~listvalues docscrutinizer	07:28
infobot	Factoid search of 'docscrutinizer' by value (3): joerg #DEL# ;; debubo ;; joerg.	07:28
crashanddie	~DocScrutinizer	07:28
infobot	from memory, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko	07:28
opdf2	wow it is crazy how much cpu and battery AP news takes	07:28
DocScrutinizer	~upsidedown Why did you die when I told you 'upsidedown' last time?	07:29
DocScrutinizer	~ping	07:29
infobot	~pong	07:29
crashanddie	~upsidedown	07:29
crashanddie	~coincidence	07:29
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crashanddie	~rambo	07:29
crashanddie	~freenode	07:29
infobot	http://freenode.net/, or the bomb. where you are, man.	07:29
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crashanddie	~forget about DocScrutinizer	07:30
infobot	crashanddie: i didn't have anything called 'about docscrutinizer' to forget	07:30
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: do you want thyself removeth from infobot ?	07:30
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: do you want thyself removeth from infobot ?	07:31
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DocScrutinizer	why?	07:33
DocScrutinizer	infobot won't forget me <3	07:34
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DocScrutinizer	try if you don't believe :-P	07:36
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: c'mon	07:39
crashanddie	~forget DocScrutinizer	07:39
infobot	cannot alter locked factoids, crashanddie	07:39
crashanddie	lmao	07:39
crashanddie	~unlock DocScrutinizer	07:39
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crashanddie	~requestunlock DocScrutinizer	07:39
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crashanddie	infobot: you should listen to me	07:45
*** ChanServ sets mode: -v infobot		07:45
crashanddie	NO VOICE FOR YOU!	07:45
slonopotamus	o_O	07:45
slonopotamus	crashanddie: you can stop him talking, but you can't change his mind :)	07:46
crashanddie	~talk	07:46
crashanddie	~say something	07:46
infobot	something	07:47
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slonopotamus	infobot: surrender	07:48
infobot	it has been said that surrender is when one ceases to fight back for what one believes in and gives up hope	07:48
crashanddie	~war	07:48
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, war is the reasonable response of a nation forced to turn to the rest of the world for valuable energy resources but not wanting to deal fairly in an open marketplace with truly equal players	07:48
slonopotamus	meh	07:48
slonopotamus	quick, anyone has glib commit access? :) fix a bug	07:49
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crashanddie	slonopotamus: DIE	07:49
crashanddie	woops	07:49
crashanddie	infobot: DIE	07:49
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.		07:49
DocScrutinizer	~scramble crashanddie	07:49
infobot	cddiasrnahe	07:49
* slonopotamus takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.		07:49
crashanddie	~scramble DocScrutinizer	07:49
infobot	DioczctnSueirr	07:49
crashanddie	lol slonopotamus	07:49
crashanddie	~scramble 13WAAOONI	07:50
infobot	1NAWOA3OI	07:50
crashanddie	doesn't make any more sense	07:50
crashanddie	~rot13 DocScrutinizer	07:50
infobot	QbpFpehgvavmre	07:50
DocScrutinizer	~rot13 QbpFpehgvavmre	07:50
infobot	DocScrutinizer	07:50
crashanddie	it would be nice if we had an infobot on the n900	07:51
crashanddie	with voice recognition	07:51
DocScrutinizer	~stats	07:51
infobot	Since Tue Apr 13 05:37:01 2010, there have been 25 modifications, 123 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 94 commands. I have been awake for 1d 23h 14m 36s this session, and currently reference 116951 factoids. I'm using about 21308 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 5154.73/158.47 child 0.09/0.03	07:51
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crashanddie	~reset	07:51
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, reset is not influencing the message about the kernel on hyper terminal	07:52
crashanddie	~maemo	07:52
infobot	maemo is, like, http://maemo.nokia.com/ http://maemo.org/ http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Device_Platforms/Maemo.xhtml	07:52
crashanddie	~ipad	07:52
infobot	Intelligent vector drawing package. URL: http://www.demon.co.uk/titan/, or a new gadget released by Apple, and agreed by most geeks to be a failwhale, even though it sold 300,000 units on its first day.	07:52
crashanddie	hehehe	07:52
crashanddie	~ipod	07:52
infobot	methinks ipod is a purty silver and white box, or deffinitly not bigger then a bread box.	07:52
crashanddie	~deffintly	07:53
crashanddie	~gmaps moncul	07:53
crashanddie	~map moncul	07:53
crashanddie	~draw square	07:53
crashanddie	~bored	07:53
infobot	La ... lalalala ... beer!	07:53
crashanddie	~joke	07:54
infobot	A bhuddist monk goes to a hot dog vendor and says "Make me one with everything!"	07:54
crashanddie	~joke	07:54
DocScrutinizer	http://infobot.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/infobot/trunk/files/infobot.help	07:55
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DocScrutinizer	~tell crashanddie about irc /query	07:55
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crashanddie	~do #maemo ban DocScrutinizer	07:57
* infobot does #maemo ban DocScrutinizer.		07:57
crashanddie	~facepalm	07:57
* infobot facepalms at the situation		07:57
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DocScrutinizer	LOL	07:57
crashanddie	~factinfo DocScrutinizer	07:58
infobot	docscrutinizer -- created by DocScrutinizer <n=jr-N810@p5493F5D9.dip.t-dialin.net> at Thu Oct 23 11:54:37 2008 (538 days); it has been requested 23 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 19m 49s ago; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer.	07:58
crashanddie	how the fuck did you lock it?	07:58
crashanddie	~factinfo ipad	07:58
infobot	ipad -- last modified at Tue Apr 6 02:19:43 2010 by crashanddie!~cb09b989@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie; it has been requested 5 times, last by crashanddie, 6m 9s ago.	07:58
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crashanddie	~scamble lcuk	08:03
crashanddie	~scramble lcuk	08:03
infobot	luck	08:03
crashanddie	yay \o/	08:03
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DocScrutinizer	~scramble luck	08:06
infobot	lcuk	08:06
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	08:06
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DocScrutinizer	~lcuk is <reply>lcuk is, like luck spelled backwards, or a lucky guy	08:07
infobot	...but lcuk is already something else...	08:07
DocScrutinizer	~lcuk	08:08
infobot	i guess lcuk is a tosser	08:08
DocScrutinizer	~factinfo lcuk	08:08
infobot	lcuk -- created by qwerty12_N810 <n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk> at Mon Aug 31 21:54:33 2009 (226 days); it has been requested once, last by DocScrutinizer, 17s ago.	08:08
DocScrutinizer	~no, lcuk is <reply>lcuk is, like luck spelled backwards, or a lucky guy	08:09
crashanddie	~no, lcuk is a mighty good developer, best known for his work on liqbase and helping Nokia with the Identity project during the onedotzero event in London.	08:09
crashanddie	~no lcuk is a mighty good developer, best known for his work on liqbase and helping Nokia with the Identity project during the onedotzero event in London.	08:09
infobot	okay, crashanddie	08:09
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DocScrutinizer	~lcuk	08:10
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, lcuk is a mighty good developer, best known for his work on liqbase and helping Nokia with the Identity project during the onedotzero event in London.	08:10
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opdf2	anyway to delete tags under a sharing service?	08:15
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crashanddie	Damn	08:54
crashanddie	andrewfblack has a virus	08:54
Stskeeps	hm?	08:55
crashanddie	he's sending spam to the meego-community mailing lists	08:57
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Stskeeps	ah, i see	08:57
Stskeeps	or it got hacked	08:57
oscillik	oops	08:57
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Khertan	yep	09:09
Khertan	also send me email privatly	09:09
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TigerTael	nice	09:11
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mece	sadf	09:12
Khertan	Rah ! Sending email via mfe is reliable !	09:12
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Khertan	Rah ! Sending email via mfe isn t reliable !	09:12
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luke-jr	sending email hasn't been reliable since idiot sysadmins began silently dropping false positives	09:14
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* noobmonk3y is struggling to wake up!		09:22
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GAN900	Whew	09:24
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Stskeeps	moo	09:25
Stskeeps	how's stuff?	09:25
GAN900	Getting ready to play with my new Nexus One. :p	09:26
GAN900	Lots of great activity today.	09:26
Stskeeps	ah, yes	09:26
Stskeeps	:P	09:26
* noobmonk3y moo's at Stskeeps		09:26
Stskeeps	so you're jumping ship or did there come out any good results of the imad/ari talks?	09:26
GAN900	The Google guy gave the whole room free phones.	09:27
Stskeeps	yeah, i heard	09:27
GAN900	I'm thinking ebay. ;)	09:27
Stskeeps	no 'not for sale' logos?	09:27
noobmonk3y	lol	09:27
GAN900	Nothing interesting from the MeeGo talks.	09:27
GAN900	Thursday will be the day	09:27
GAN900	MeeGo workshop	09:28
crashanddie	GAN900: you have a nexus one?	09:28
Stskeeps	:nod:	09:28
crashanddie	GAN900: so you gave in to Android?	09:28
GAN900	had some nice chats with Quim, Dawn, Roland, Henri and Dimmitri today	09:28
GAN900	crashanddie, eBay. :p	09:28
Stskeeps	disillusioned or not? ;)	09:28
crashanddie	GAN900: anyone talking about all the companies endorsing meego? BMW, etc?	09:29
GAN900	crashanddie, Ari did a bit	09:29
crashanddie	GAN900: I might be interested, I have to send my n900 back and won't really have funds to buy anything	09:29
GAN900	The Maemo Community Council was dropped from the slide on it, though. :(	09:29
Jaffa	Morning, all	09:29
Stskeeps	GAN900: and collabora :P	09:29
crashanddie	GAN900: not the same message, you know that	09:29
GAN900	Yeah, yeah. :P	09:30
crashanddie	GAN900: I'd rather people take meego seriously because they see acer, asus, bmw and cisco than go "who the fuck are the jedis in their basement on the maemo community council?"	09:30
Jaffa	GAN900: Bah, free phone - wish I was there	09:30
crashanddie	were	09:30
crashanddie	:P	09:30
crashanddie	moin Jaffa	09:31
GAN900	Jaffa, wish you were too.	09:31
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GAN900	The crowd and the Android guy almost came to blows over Google not sending kernel patches upstream.	09:32
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Stskeeps	any recordings up yet	09:33
Stskeeps	?	09:33
Stskeeps	the stream was fucking laggy	09:33
crashanddie	GAN900: can you watch a youtube video?	09:33
GAN900	"Well, which company is delivering a product and sending patches? Huh?"	09:33
GAN900	Um, Nokia. . . .	09:33
GAN900	crashanddie, on EDGE	09:33
crashanddie	GAN900: is that a yes or no/	09:34
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GAN900	crashanddie, if you give me about 10 minutes	09:34
crashanddie	GAN900: just find some goddamned wifi :P	09:34
crashanddie	GAN900: will PM it, just watch it when you have a moment	09:35
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larsivi	I installed scratchbox+maemo (gui installer) yesterday - however I'd like to create a PR1.1 target too (to be able to properly test on an actual device) - are there any descriptions out there on how to do that?	09:35
GAN900	Stskeeps, no clue.	09:36
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crashanddie	"Do you trust IE? Any version of it?"	09:37
crashanddie	"Sure, I trust it will crap out and crash everything at the worst possible moment"	09:37
GAN900	Henri's Nexus One booted to the bootloader because the battery was low	09:37
GAN900	weird	09:37
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noobmonk3y	larsivi, no idea sorry	09:39
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mece	hey what phone is thisguy using: http://meegoportal.com/?p=102 ?	09:43
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noobmonk3y	there is an argument on the forums about it	09:46
mece	Is it the rumored N9xx or a phone that everyone knows about but me?	09:46
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mece	noobmonk3y, where would that be?	09:46
noobmonk3y	Peeps seem to say Aava or LG	09:47
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noobmonk3y	lol mece, not like you to not use the search??!?!	09:47
noobmonk3y	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=50050&highlight=meego	09:47
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mece	noobmonk3y, feeling lazy :)	09:49
mece	noobmonk3y, thanks :)	09:49
noobmonk3y	:D	09:50
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* noobmonk3y has fed and watered the trolls, time for work i feel :D		09:51
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Sentri	is it normal that I see some odd 1.7G /opt/pymaemo stuff on df -h ?	10:16
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Sentri	I don't remember seeing them before	10:16
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DocScrutinizer	1.7GB ?? o.O	10:18
Sentri	sec ill pastebin the	10:18
Sentri	them	10:18
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Sentri	http://pastebin.com/mKwUitud	10:21
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adeus	normal	10:22
Wolfie	isn't that 1.7gb available, not used?	10:22
DocScrutinizer	used 172.4M free 1.7G	10:22
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Sentri	but i remember it being different before	10:23
Sentri	sane as this page shows http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_filesystem	10:23
mece	Sentri, it's normal. It's the python optifying that does that.	10:24
adeus	I have 501M used	10:24
Sentri	ok thanks	10:25
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cityLights	hi all	10:58
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cityLights	my catalogs where magiclly wiped out. in which file are these? can anyone send me the default catalog file?	10:59
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pupnik	cityLights: can you rephrase your question?	11:00
cityLights	hi pupnik	11:00
pupnik	describe what you tried to do, then expected vs observed behavior	11:01
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cityLights	when I go in to the App. manager and click update I get an error message , that no catalogs are available	11:01
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pupnik	lemme try	11:02
pupnik	connection too poor	11:02
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cityLights	indeed if I click the catalogs the list is empty	11:03
cityLights	the Nokia system updates is missing	11:03
cityLights	and so I ask, pupnik, where are the catalogs stored?	11:04
NuD1t7	Should I be worried when I just bought a new Nokia N900 and had to run only one update ... and yesterday it started to do the "reboot"-bug/problem ... hw 32 something in bootreason ... been up for 12h now though	11:04
mece	hey! A survey: http://maemo.nokia.com/survey/	11:04
cityLights	pupnik: odd, I run it again , and now all is fine.	11:05
cityLights	why?	11:05
TigerTael	NuD1t7, if you haven't fiddled with anything, sounds like you might have cause for alarm.	11:05
pupnik	cityLights: that is probably due to a connection error with the software repository. try again later	11:05
pupnik	heh	11:05
TigerTael	I am SOOOOO glad that the N900 can bring itself out of sleep/power off to sound the alarm.	11:06
TigerTael	However, the one morning, Saturday morning, it woke me up early because I just turned off the phone thinking that the alarm wouldn't sound. ;/	11:06
cityLights	was pr 1.2 released yet? its been more then a month since sevral bug where marked fix , and wherent published to the common welth	11:07
cityLights	walth	11:07
TigerTael	wealth.	11:07
cityLights	sorry	11:07
TigerTael	np	11:07
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Treibholz	first Overclocking-talk, now PR1.2-Release-talk..	11:08
Treibholz	hmm, is there a bullshitbingo-script for irssi? :-)	11:08
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NuD1t7	TigerTael well installed/uninstalled some programs ... only had one problem and that was related to the downloading and extracting of debian.img.v5-somethingblaablaa	11:08
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TigerTael	hrm...	11:09
cityLights	sorry Treibholz	11:09
NuD1t7	unistalled the "easy debian" last night ... the phone hasn´t rebooted itself after that	11:09
Treibholz	cityLights: no problem, hehe :-)	11:09
TigerTael	NuD1t7, I haven't tested any of those advanced packages myself, but I have not had 1 reboot with my phone since I've had it.	11:09
TigerTael	But I haven't fiddled with the power settings either.	11:10
NuD1t7	heh k	11:10
TigerTael	You know that power saving feature on the CPU.	11:10
NuD1t7	nope	11:10
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TigerTael	But keep asking other users, maybe they've had more experience with easydebian, etc.	11:10
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NuD1t7	haven't even oc'd it ...yet	11:11
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TigerTael	I'm not going to overclock mine... I am interested in underclocking it though.	11:11
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pupnik	good choice	11:12
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X-Fade	Hmm andrewfblack should stop clicking on all dodgy links. Nice spam.	11:15
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Stskeeps	X-Fade: his facebook got hacked and they then hacked his gmail it seems like :P	11:16
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mece	who's hacking what now?	11:18
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Don't know but got a few spams directly coming from his gmail at least.	11:18
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nid0	that was a pretty mammoth survey	11:33
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Scelt	yeah, it has taken already 30 minutes	11:34
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Scelt	and I notice that I'm getting to the point on just clicking something to get rid of it	11:34
visz	any idea if you can get finnish keyboard for n900 from nokia discounted devices program?	11:36
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visz	240€ seems like a nice price	11:36
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paul_____	any ideas if there is a dfault lock code set on the n900? as i've set one i belive and wantc to chance it and don't know what it is to chance	11:37
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AdamGogarty	id like to know this also	11:38
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Stskeeps	paul_____: 12345	11:38
SpeedEvil	12345	11:39
Scelt	12345	11:39
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paul_____	ty :)	11:40
paul_____	i tried all sorts just not that lol	11:40
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Khertan_Home	Hi !	11:40
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Khertan_Home	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZlY5oN2qC4&feature=player_embedded <<<< there is already some version of meego with a working gui ?	11:41
X-Fade	Khertan_Home: Sure, Moblin.	11:41
Khertan_Home	Moblin ... so not open source :)	11:41
achipa	does ncurses count as a Gui ?	11:42
X-Fade	This is just Netbook UX.	11:42
Khertan_Home	yep ... but i mean ... this isn't something release	11:42
Khertan_Home	just a thing for demo purpose	11:42
Stskeeps	achipa: we have ncurses?	11:42
Stskeeps	:P	11:42
X-Fade	Khertan_Home: No, that is just the meego netbook release?	11:43
Khertan_Home	ah ...	11:43
paul_____	is there a clinet like ebuddy for the phone i remeber it started with p?	11:43
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Khertan_Home	so i should try it on my netbook :)	11:44
X-Fade	But 1.0 will be release in May.	11:44
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Khertan_Home	thx X-Fade	11:44
Khertan_Home	X-Fade, yep ... but try :) not something for daily use	11:44
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ptl	paul_____: pidgin	11:45
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paul_____	ty ptl	11:46
paul_____	no good don't suport facebook chat :(	11:48
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TigerTael	What paul was thinking of might be Palringo.	11:57
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crashanddie	bloody hell	11:58
crashanddie	and they say our world isn't connected	11:58
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crashanddie	My gf, who lives in France, was supposed to go back to work today (in London). I told her I didn't want her to go. Now she's pissed at me, because some volcano in Iceland has disrupted air travel throughout Europe... and somehow it's my fault?	12:00
crashanddie	(I am in Australia)	12:00
bilboed-pi	... volcano in iceland disrupted air travel ? wtf ?	12:00
Khertan_Home	ouch was just looking at moblin ... there is so few supported netbook	12:00
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visz	bilboed-pi, ash in the atmosphere	12:01
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bilboed-pi	ah right, just found the newsreport	12:01
Stskeeps	bilboed-pi: ash in atmosphere =very very bad for planes	12:01
Stskeeps	:P	12:01
Treibholz	can I somehow change the priority of my jabber-resource?	12:01
X-Fade	Sandblasting the engine blades. Nice ;)	12:01
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Treibholz	the jabber-client in maemo is really ... let's call it ... it has a lot of potential!	12:02
crashanddie	bilboed-pi: dust cloud	12:03
crashanddie	X-Fade: did you see those pictures of helicopters landing in iraq?	12:03
bilboed-pi	s/dust/ash/, but yes	12:03
bilboed-pi	damn...	12:03
crashanddie	X-Fade: where the dust in the air was sandblasting the blades and creating sparks -- actually eating away at the blades?	12:04
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X-Fade	crashanddie: I've seen those pictures yes.	12:05
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SpeedEvil	Hmm. Anyone with the mugen battery - can you comment on if there is free space in the back?	12:06
crashanddie	for anyone else who hasn't seen the pictures, damned cool: http://www.michaelyon-online.com/the-kopp-etchells-effect.htm	12:07
X-Fade	crashanddie: Just wanted to link you those ;)	12:07
X-Fade	crashanddie: Titanium plates on the blades ;)	12:07
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crashanddie	X-Fade: could you comment on the meego security thread?	12:08
X-Fade	No, I can't comment on that list.	12:09
crashanddie	oh really?	12:09
crashanddie	like, from a contract perspective?	12:09
X-Fade	My host is blocked there :)	12:09
crashanddie	aww	12:09
crashanddie	just create a bloody gmail account	12:09
X-Fade	Perhaps, it is just a pain.	12:10
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crashanddie	X-Fade: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-April/001587.html	12:10
crashanddie	X-Fade: I was asking you questions, not realising you didn't read it	12:10
X-Fade	I did skim it, but meego is not my highest priority as I'm really not involved in it.	12:13
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X-Fade	crashanddie: But basically every service run in separate db, separate user, separate machine.	12:16
X-Fade	*runs	12:16
crashanddie	perfect, exactly what I wanted to hear	12:16
crashanddie	I didn't like the fact the guy talked about Apache and wanted to draw comparisons with MeeGo/Maemo	12:16
X-Fade	ISP manages the basic platform security updates.	12:16
crashanddie	because Apache have been known and laughed at for doing everything on each of their machines	12:16
X-Fade	We have seperated everything out.	12:17
X-Fade	That is why we even went to drop.maemo.org for ssh access (dput and git+ssh)	12:17
crashanddie	Each machine will have public SSH, /etc/passwd shared with 20 web apps, and absolutely no segregation	12:17
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crashanddie	And then people are surprised that by compromising one web app, everything is clusterfucked	12:18
X-Fade	We don't have outside ssh access to web facing services.	12:18
crashanddie	X-Fade: ok, thanks, do you mind if I relay that information to the ML?	12:18
X-Fade	Other than the drop vm.	12:18
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X-Fade	Services run in DMZ with firewall and loadbalancers in front of it.	12:19
crashanddie	X-Fade: do I have any chance if I ask you to throw a stupid visio diagram that shows all the things? Not urgent, at all, just on the back of your to-do list?	12:19
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crashanddie	Is Maemo related too :-*	12:19
X-Fade	Well, yes and no.	12:20
X-Fade	I don't see public community access to the servers happen.	12:20
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crashanddie	never asked for that	12:20
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X-Fade	So in the end it is a nice to know, but what can one do with that info.	12:20
crashanddie	keep trolls from screaming "WE NEED SECURITY"	12:21
X-Fade	I'm very good at ignoring trolls ;)	12:21
Khertan_Home	Khertan (~khertan@AAmiens-155-1-32-240.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr) a rejoint #maemo < oups ! where is this machine !	12:21
crashanddie	I know you are, you've been doing a great job at ignoring me at the summit :P	12:21
X-Fade	lol, what did I do there :)	12:22
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crashanddie	I offered to buy you a beer 3 times over 3 days, and 3 times you said "Yeah sure, give me a few minutes"	12:23
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nid0	here's a news line you dont see every day	12:24
nid0	Hence the company study, in which 16 Dorset sheep weighing from 26 to 78 kg were given various doses of methamphetamine (four unlucky control animals got none at all) and were then repeatedly zapped with a Taser X26 "compliance device".	12:24
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pupnik	does that happen to you often, crashanddie ?	12:24
lardman	morning all	12:25
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crashanddie	pupnik: not really, that's why I remember it!	12:25
X-Fade	crashanddie: I remember sitting in the same bar, opposite to you.	12:25
crashanddie	moin lardman	12:25
crashanddie	X-Fade: eh?	12:26
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crashanddie	X-Fade: nha, we never got together	12:26
X-Fade	crashanddie: hotel lobby bar?	12:26
crashanddie	oh	12:26
crashanddie	maybe	12:26
crashanddie	but then I was inhibriated, so that doesn't count	12:26
crashanddie	X-Fade: I wasn't at the same hotel as you though	12:27
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X-Fade	Or I was. Don't know.	12:28
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X-Fade	I'm not known to ignore beer offers :)	12:28
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lardman	X-Fade: so how come I'm not on the front page anymore? Did I not offer enough beer...? ;)	12:30
X-Fade	lardman: That effect wears off.	12:30
lardman	lol	12:30
X-Fade	lardman: You need to continue to offer beer :)	12:30
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lardman	of course, next meetup, no worries :)	12:30
* lardman thinks to himself that if it's in Amsterdam again he'll need to sell a kidney to afford X-Fade's beer too ;)		12:31
X-Fade	The London rumours are growing :)	12:32
X-Fade	So can't be that bad.	12:32
crashanddie	London rumours?	12:32
crashanddie	As in, next summit in London?	12:32
frals	wasnt that some forum nokia shebangthingy?	12:32
X-Fade	A LF preffered location it seems.	12:32
lardman	LF?	12:32
crashanddie	Linux Foundation	12:33
BCMM	do i have to click on each update in turn in app manager? can i just use apt-get instead?	12:33
frals	linux foundation	12:33
lardman	ah	12:33
X-Fade	wow, that was bad spelling ;)	12:33
crashanddie	BCMM: click on the menu, there's an update all	12:33
Treibholz	BCMM: you can.	12:33
pupnik	LF?	12:33
crashanddie	Linux Foundation	12:33
lardman	infobot: LF stands for Linux Foundation	12:33
infobot	stands for Linux Foundation: don't you know we're supposed to be luserfriendly?	12:33
BCMM	thanks, both of those are useful	12:34
lardman	stupid bot	12:34
X-Fade	infobot: LF is Linux Foundation	12:34
infobot	is Linux Foundation: don't you know we're supposed to be luserfriendly?	12:34
lardman	~LF	12:34
crashanddie	~LF is shorthand for Linux Foundation, more info at www.linuxfoundation.org	12:34
infobot	is shorthand for Linux Foundation, more info at www.linuxfoundation.org: don't you know we're supposed to be luserfriendly?	12:34
crashanddie	gotdamn	12:34
crashanddie	~forget lf	12:34
infobot	crashanddie: i didn't have anything called 'lf' to forget	12:34
lardman	lol	12:34
crashanddie	~factoid	12:35
X-Fade	~learn LF is Linux Foundation	12:35
infobot	X-Fade: I think you lost me on that one	12:35
Scelt	:-D	12:35
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: you've broken it you twat	12:35
crashanddie	anyway	12:35
crashanddie	back to the rant that was brewing	12:35
crashanddie	The year that I decide to go live on the other side of the planet, the fucking summit will be in London, WHERE I USED TO LIVE?	12:35
lardman	crashanddie: perfect excuse to move back ;)	12:36
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jacekowski	i hate london	12:36
X-Fade	crashanddie: I'm ok with AU too.	12:36
lardman	yeah AU would be nice	12:36
jacekowski	i'm there at least twice a month and ussualy by car	12:36
jacekowski	au is far away	12:36
crashanddie	too far to travel guys	12:36
jacekowski	and they walk upside down	12:36
lardman	jacekowski: hmm, I try to avoid driving cars in London these days	12:36
crashanddie	25h on a plane? $2k to fly back and forth?	12:36
lardman	crashanddie: sponsorship!	12:37
jacekowski	crashanddie: and you risk that you might fell of the earth	12:37
jacekowski	crashanddie: because of being upside down	12:37
crashanddie	jacekowski: that joke was funny 25 years ago, the first time it was told	12:37
jacekowski	that was mean	12:37
Treibholz	some jokes get better, the more often you hear them!	12:38
pupnik	is there a drama club nearby? perhaps another outlet would do crashanddie good	12:38
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crashanddie	pupnik: did I do something to you lately?	12:38
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lardman	pupnik: ah, leave him alone, he's far away from us all and missing us	12:38
lardman	;)	12:38
crashanddie	YESH!	12:38
crashanddie	I mish you all :(	12:39
pupnik	:	12:39
pupnik	)	12:39
crashanddie	I mean, it's like nearly 8PM here, and only morning for most of you :*(	12:39
pupnik	have a good day all	12:39
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jacekowski	they do emu racing in australia	12:39
jacekowski	and you need kangaroo driving license if you plan to go onto main roads	12:39
Scelt	http://apina.biz/28509	12:39
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jacekowski	and it's british prison colony	12:40
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crashanddie	jacekowski: seriously, it's not funny	12:40
achipa	crashanddie: it was funny enough to hear Qole on the Summit wish good night to his family just as he woke u :D	12:40
achipa	u=up	12:40
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crashanddie	achipa: may be funny, trust me, it gets a whole less funny when you have to do it every day for 4 months	12:41
crashanddie	achipa: or you have to wake up at 4AM so that your boss can call you	12:41
crashanddie	achipa: or you have to stay up until 2AM for a conf call	12:41
jacekowski	i go to sleep at 3AM	12:41
jacekowski	and wake up at 7:40AM	12:41
crashanddie	jacekowski: yeah but you're an unemployed bum who lives in his mother's basement	12:41
crashanddie	you live off pizza and coke	12:42
jacekowski	crashanddie: no	12:42
jacekowski	i'm at work at the moment	12:42
achipa	crashanddie: I still have a 'good [insert your time of the day]' script for a good buddy of mine who lives in NZ :)	12:42
crashanddie	achipa: the day I greet my family over IRC is the day I know I have lost the very few surviving sparks of sanity	12:42
X-Fade	The thing with versions is, I don't like to touch the packaging itself.	12:42
crashanddie	how do you open your food then?	12:43
X-Fade	Hmm that was for Jaffa ;)	12:43
crashanddie	no packaging?	12:43
achipa	crashanddie: at least you still have them - that's a start ! :D	12:43
crashanddie	achipa: I call lardman a friend, infobot tells me that means my sparks aren't that sparky anymore.	12:44
achipa	X-Fade: btw, how do you feel about the extras-experimental thing ? am about to write a mail but would like to hear some opinions beforehand	12:44
X-Fade	What purpose would it serve?	12:44
achipa	crashanddie: hey, brown dwarfs might not be flaming and sparky, but they are still stars :)	12:45
crashanddie	achipa: hahaha, excellent quote	12:45
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achipa	X-Fade: errm, sever extras from new PR/SDK release date mismatch problems ?	12:45
X-Fade	achipa: ?	12:46
achipa	X-Fade: the notion that we should have an isolated extras-experimental with the newest SDK, whichever/whatever version it is, and that would become extras-devel when Nokia hits the 'bombs away' button	12:47
achipa	so we can still play around with new stuff as it will be on release, but not endanger people working for current PRs	12:48
crashanddie	achipa: I don't think the plan is ever to have a PR stuck in devel for so long	12:49
X-Fade	achipa: Won't versioned extras-devel be easier then?	12:49
crashanddie	achipa: to be honest, what needs to happen is exactly what happened now: new PR version is submitted to devel, and everyone works like mad to port/rebuild their app with the new PR	12:50
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jacekowski	well, it would be nice to have SDK avaliable some time before release for users	12:50
achipa	crashanddie: I'm aware of that, but I don't see what insurance we have we won't run into the same thing with PR1.3+, harmattan, etc	12:50
jacekowski	but without breaking anything	12:50
X-Fade	Well our proposed plan fixes on thing in that: Not generating dependencies higher than is needed by the app.	12:51
achipa	X-Fade: terminology, doesn't matter if we call it extras-devel1.2, extras-experimental or extras-head, the bottom line is to have both latest stable and devel available	12:51
X-Fade	One idea is to move away from AM altoghether.	12:52
crashanddie	achipa: can we call it extra-headache?	12:52
X-Fade	have our own appdownloader application.	12:52
achipa	crashanddie: that's an option, otoo :)	12:52
X-Fade	Which is aware of what versions you are runnning and doesn't even notice the mess.	12:52
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achipa	the problem is that we have non backwards compatible stuff that will burn people...	12:53
achipa	and we have this problem of people treating dependencies very liberally	12:54
Jaffa	achipa: But with syumbol versioning it will be something they can't use, because their OS doesn't support it. Combined with a separate repo for Extras (proper), it's only people using extras-devel/-testing which could get burned.	12:54
X-Fade	achipa: dependencies are now generated based on actual symbols used.	12:54
korhojoa	hey guys. I have a problem	12:54
achipa	and how will that work with pygtk, pyside and pyqt apps ?	12:54
korhojoa	I can't seem to get the n900 to let me unmount the MyDocs partition	12:54
X-Fade	And AM will tell you that you need to upgrade your OS from PR1.2 on, IIRC.	12:55
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achipa	I already see people just throwing in blanket 'python-qt4-gui' dependencies. That sort of works now, but certainly is not good on the long run	12:55
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X-Fade	achipa: I am really thinking of throwing qt4-maemo5 out.	12:56
X-Fade	They reall created a mess there.	12:56
Jaffa	achipa: So, you're worried that people using soft-coded libraries which don't enforce compile-time dependencies will be installable, but won't work.	12:56
X-Fade	Having 2 parallel Qt version is just a pain.	12:57
achipa	Jaffa: yes, or, will not upgrade properly (=break on upgrade)	12:57
Jaffa	achipa: First pass there is to improve the documentation on what people should do (i.e. "if you want to deploy on PR1.1, use: Depends: .... (>= ...)" for the various Py* projects	12:57
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achipa	X-Fade: oh the # of times I told this on the qt-maemo list...	12:57
* achipa sighs		12:57
X-Fade	achipa: We as a community need to take a stand then?	12:58
Jaffa	achipa: And chiming in earlier on the "how to solve PR1.2" supporting the "multiple repos" idea probably would've been good :-)	12:58
X-Fade	achipa: Propose it on -devel and get it going.	12:58
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achipa	X-Fade: the biggest problem is that the thing already has plenty inertia, will have to have a proposal with proper alternatives or it'll get ignored (with sad nodding and all)...	12:59
X-Fade	We have quite some apps depending on qt4-maemo5, which are basically useless.	13:00
TigerTael	;/	13:00
achipa	Jaffa: yes, well, it's a solution with drawbacks, too, it hasn't dawned on mee soon enough that there will be no really good/painless solution	13:00
korhojoa	No-one knows why it won't allow dismount of the storage volume?	13:01
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X-Fade	I feel we need to see the Qt and PR1.2 issues separately.	13:01
achipa	pr1.2 (with regard to qt) should have really been called maemo 5.1, 'cause that's what it is	13:02
Khertan_Home	korhojoa, something using it ... tracker maybe	13:02
korhojoa	what tracker?	13:02
achipa	but I agree the qt problem is separate	13:02
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Khertan_Home	korhojoa, media tracker	13:03
achipa	and we will see it again in the future (see the recycling of libqt4-maemo5 for Qt4.7)	13:03
korhojoa	damn you, media tracker	13:03
korhojoa	it can't be using it all the damn time	13:03
Khertan_Home	don't know ... look at which file is open on the partition	13:03
korhojoa	how? :D	13:03
korhojoa	I've been trying to figure that out for a while	13:03
SpeedEvil	fuser -m /home/user/MyDocs	13:03
SpeedEvil	why do you want to unmount?	13:04
korhojoa	nothing, apparently	13:04
korhojoa	I'd like to use it in mass storage mode	13:04
SpeedEvil	just plug it in	13:04
SpeedEvil	and it automatically does it	13:04
korhojoa	wow, thanks. never tried that.	13:04
korhojoa	I've been trying for two hours	13:04
korhojoa	it just keeps saying that the volume is busy	13:04
SpeedEvil	hmm	13:04
achipa	korhojoa: reboot ?	13:04
korhojoa	sorry. "resource is in use"	13:04
korhojoa	achipa: tried that too	13:05
korhojoa	that's about the first thing i try when something doesn't work	13:05
achipa	korhojoa: do you have fuser ?	13:05
Khertan_Home	korhojoa, lsof /media/usbdisk/	13:05
Khertan_Home	korhojoa, lsof /home/user/MyDocs/	13:05
korhojoa	achipa: well, it's in the built-in busybox	13:06
korhojoa	Khertan_Home: also nothing	13:06
Khertan_Home	strange	13:06
Khertan_Home	reboot :)	13:06
Khertan_Home	easier solution i think	13:06
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korhojoa	like i said, i've tried it, multiple times	13:06
korhojoa	i'll try it again though. shutting down now	13:06
korhojoa	aaaand booting.	13:06
Khertan_Home	with usb cable connected before start ?	13:07
korhojoa	this time, yes	13:07
crashanddie	Khertan_Home: t'as trouve un padawan?	13:07
korhojoa	wow. now it's there. phone doesn't show anything though	13:07
korhojoa	does this mean that it's in some kind of mass-storage only mode?	13:08
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Khertan_Home	crashanddie, gnié ?	13:08
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achipa	X-Fade, Jaffa: it would be good to have feedback if the ONLY reason for libqt4-maemo5 is to have it installed in parallel with the 'stable' one	13:09
lardman	Khertan_Home: hmm, Google translate has issues, what is a pany...? Had to translate French->German	13:11
Treibholz	'pany' is a French word?	13:11
crashanddie	nope	13:12
lardman	nah gnié	13:12
lardman	pany is apparently the English translation for that	13:12
crashanddie	lardman: "gnié" is the same as the canadian "eh?"	13:12
Treibholz	it's not a German word either...	13:12
lardman	Google translated it into a German word I understood though	13:13
DangerMaus	eh	13:13
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lardman	but it looks like it's wrong in all cases, unless the Germans say "Gesellschaft?" rather than "eh?"	13:13
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range	esundheit.	13:14
range	*Gesundheit.	13:14
range	.oO ( Damn )	13:14
crashanddie	lardman: ja, aber ihr deutsh ist krumm :P	13:14
X-Fade	achipa: Parallel install can be a good thing, but developers seem to believe that that is the one to use.	13:15
lardman	gleichfalls!	13:15
crashanddie	aber sie haen ein schonen akzent wenn sie deutsch sprecht	13:15
achipa	heh, mein Deutsch ist Tarzan Deutsch (at best :P )	13:15
crashanddie	s/haen/haben/	13:15
infobot	crashanddie meant: aber sie haben ein schonen akzent wenn sie deutsch sprecht	13:15
achipa	X-Fade: what I'm saying there might be less painful and disruptive ways to go about that :)	13:16
lardman	crashanddie: you can say du to me	13:16
crashanddie	I can?	13:16
lardman	you have permission	13:16
crashanddie	ah	13:16
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Khertan_Home	Ich verstehe nichts	13:16
Khertan_Home	. Aber ich sprach Deutsch in der Vergangenheit	13:16
lardman	Khertan_Home: not sure anyone really understands crashanddie ;)	13:17
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie		13:17
*** crashanddie sets mode: +q lardman!@		13:18
crashanddie	now nobody understands YOU!	13:18
crashanddie	HAHAHAHAHA	13:18
Stskeeps	why the fuck? :P	13:18
*** crashanddie sets mode: -q lardman!@		13:18
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie		13:18
Stskeeps	what's with all these op-ups? is there any threat to the channel?	13:18
Stskeeps	:P	13:18
crashanddie	Stskeeps: waiting for mohammad to write the guidelines	13:19
TigerTael	Yes, the threat of freedom of speech.	13:19
lardman	anyway, crashanddie stop tarting around, apologies to everyone for the random language changes, and I'm going back to work	13:19
crashanddie	have fun	13:19
crashanddie	Khertan_Home: dis lui que toi tu me comprends quand je parle...	13:19
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crashanddie	TigerTael: don't talk about inside jokes you can't possibly have knowledge of :)	13:20
achipa	X-Fade: and especially since the libqt4-maemo5 is a dev branch, it makes little sense, it constantly breaks everything downstream	13:20
Khertan_Home	lardman: bah je le comprends moi :)	13:20
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crashanddie	haha	13:20
crashanddie	very helpful, thanks	13:20
achipa	X-Fade: I'm inclined to say even having the next qt statically linked would be a better solution :S that way at least you would not have scheduled breakage of stuff in extras, and would have a remote chance of entering extras	13:21
Khertan_Home	lol	13:21
frals	~curse VirtualBox	13:21
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, VirtualBox !	13:21
frals	love how my vboxnetdrv has randomly uninstalled itself	13:21
achipa	breakage of stuff in extras-devel... duh	13:21
crashanddie	Stskeeps: nice proposal	13:21
X-Fade	achipa: I think we should just continue to block qt4-maemo5. It is just not for end-users.	13:22
X-Fade	achipa: And now there is talk of putting 4.7 under qt4-maemo5.	13:22
achipa	X-Fade: what I'm saying it's not even for developers :D	13:22
X-Fade	achipa: yeah, indeed.	13:22
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achipa	X-Fade: qt4.7 is a moving target, like 4.6 was, probably even more in the beginning. I don't have any 4.6 apps as they were breaking it all to often. It was just frustrating.	13:24
achipa	there is/was no chance of putting anything in extras-devel, have it working and hope it would work just the same a month later	13:24
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X-Fade	achipa: Well the libqt4 version in PR1.2 will at least be 'stable' for the PR1.2 lifetime ;)	13:24
X-Fade	But really, I think pyside should only aim at libqt4.	13:25
BCMM	can i turn the phone off with /sbin/halt? or will that confuse things?	13:25
achipa	X-Fade: I came to a similar conclusion, and that's exactly what I'm doing with PyQt :)	13:26
X-Fade	Pyside, pyqt all sounds the same for me, sorry ;)	13:26
achipa	X-Fade: pyqt is a kind of pyside that works (/me runs from angry pyside folks :D ) )	13:27
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X-Fade	achipa: We actually experimented a bit with the indexed qt4 symbols. But for bindings that really doesn't help.	13:28
achipa	there is a lot of aiming in front of targets and then missing them... which does not play out too well considering it's middleware and affects everything downstream-ish...	13:29
* X-Fade waits for a stable api		13:29
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adalal	quick question, would unclocking your device void warranty?	13:35
adalal	or undervolting	13:35
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Khertan_Home	if you stay in cpu specification i didn't see why it would	13:36
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NuD1t7	well any non-stock kernel ( unless developer version from manufacturer ) is supposed to be "this craps on your warranty"	13:37
Khertan_Home	really ?	13:37
Stskeeps	NuD1t7: overclock kernel probably does	13:37
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NuD1t7	well the problem is that the warranty covers the device and softwrae as it is/was when delivered to client	13:38
NuD1t7	but i am not 100% sure	13:38
flux	nud1t7, so installing anything voids the warranty then?-)	13:39
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asj	if you reflash it it's not like they can find out	13:39
larsivi	Using the FREMANTLE_ARMEL target, should I expect the maemo5 pri1.2 desktop to start on Xephyr?	13:39
asj	not the last time I used it	13:40
larsivi	it seems like qemu complains a lot, then segfaults	13:40
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achipa	X-Fade: will there ever BE a stable api on Fremantle ? :) :(	13:42
asj	achipa: Qt maintain source compatiblity on major version, and bin on sub version	13:43
asj	s	13:43
X-Fade	achipa: I feel that things will be slowing down at least.	13:45
achipa	asj: pink lines :) Is mostly true on desktops, not true at all on (new) platfoms...	13:46
asj	achipa: Qt+maemo is not Qt, what the maemo guys do...heaven only knows :	13:47
asj	:)	13:47
achipa	X-Fade: the core maybe, but mobility and QML will give a spin to it somewhere down the line, I'm certain	13:47
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X-Fade	achipa: Yes, but that also has to get more stable at some point.	13:48
achipa	asj: well, the official Qt pages/docs claim otherwise, which certainly doesn't help :)	13:49
achipa	asj: or rather, it would be cool if that WAS the actual state and not the problem :)	13:50
asj	which part? :)	13:50
achipa	asj: well, Qt for Maemo sits right beside all other platforms... kind of gives the impression that its not some downstream experiment :)	13:51
asj	achipa: ah :)	13:52
achipa	asj: also, the docs claim QMaemo5 classes to be part of QtCore and QtGui, which is not quite the case :)	13:52
asj	I think that maybe more true now than it used to be	13:52
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achipa	asj: certainly, 4.6 will be a big step forward, it's just that there is a fair number of platform caveats about things people take as granted based on desktop Qt experience (like the aforementioned source/binary compatibility)	13:54
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asj	achipa: mmm, but it kinda fits with the n900 which seems to be a bit of an experimental device anyways eh?	13:55
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* lardman\|busy looks at Icelandic eruption and wonders if he'll be able to fly to Glasgow next week		13:55
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X-Fade	lardman\|busy: Start thinking about the train ;)	13:56
lardman\|busy	yeah, not a pleasant thought	13:56
* asj is thinking about bed		13:56
lardman\|busy	I hope the meeting is cancelled in that case, but we'll see	13:56
X-Fade	Lot of travel/trouble for just a meeting ;)	13:57
lardman\|busy	c'est la vie	13:57
Khertan_Home	ah bah oui mon bon monsieur !	13:57
Khertan_Home	:)	13:57
lardman\|busy	we're not into telemeetings in the engineering industry ;)	13:57
Khertan_Home	in the telecom engineering industry ? :)	13:58
lardman\|busy	mechanical engineering	13:58
X-Fade	lardman\|busy: No excuse :)	13:58
lardman\|busy	I know, but still, face to face is the way it's done (and the few teleconferences I've done weren't overly productive)	13:58
avee_	Teleconferencing the mechanical way, two cans and a really long string?	13:59
lardman\|busy	avee_: lol, yes	13:59
avee_	But by next week stuff will probably fly again, unless the thing decides to cough again.	14:00
avee_	The are expecting to resume flights somewhere this evening.	14:00
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lardman\|busy	avee_: ah that's good news	14:02
lardman\|busy	anything to avoid a train, though really a train might be better than EasyJet	14:02
avee_	Ah well, i generally don't mind trains, but haven't tried any in the UK yet ;)	14:03
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lardman\|busy	avee_: ah, well that explains it	14:03
lardman\|busy	;)	14:03
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avee_	Yeah, they do have a certain image. For long stretches you really need high speed trains to compete with planes.	14:05
lardman\|busy	so ~8h to Scotland isn't fast enough ;)	14:05
lardman\|busy	actually it's probably more than that as I'd need to change a few times	14:05
avee_	Nope, that should get you to New York, not Schotland.	14:06
lardman\|busy	indeed	14:06
lardman\|busy	and the funny thing is it would probably be cheaper to fly to NY too	14:06
avee_	But once a train is going at 300km/h it becomes a nice way of traveling.	14:06
lardman\|busy	avee_: yep, European trains are much nicer	14:06
achipa	X-Fade: seriously, what's our policy on statically linked stuff ? if someone promoted something that includes a (properly optified) app with a statically linked Qt4.6 (or whatever is the dev version ATM) ... Can it reach extras or is that a no-no ?	14:07
X-Fade	achipa: We have no policy on that.	14:07
n00bmonk3y_Work	achipa: good question, never read anything about something being denied becuase of it, as the dependency would still work :P	14:07
n00bmonk3y_Work	ahhhh but X-Fade be clever and know more than me ;)	14:08
achipa	lardman\|busy: Try out Serbian trains. It is confirmed we have a lower average travel speed than we had a 100 years a ago (fact)	14:08
X-Fade	achipa: Technically there is nothing in the way of doing that.	14:08
lardman\|busy	achipa: lol, I'll bear it in mind	14:08
n00bmonk3y_Work	X-Fade: dont the maemo hamsters get a bit miffed and nibble at your ankles until you stop doing it? or is that just a myth?	14:08
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X-Fade	n00bmonk3y_Work: try out and see :)	14:09
n00bmonk3y_Work	lol :)	14:09
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achipa	:) I'm just contemplating bundling Qt statically with PyQt... so it never gets outdated and needs no rootfs space... temptation of the dark side...	14:10
* n00bmonk3y_Work doesnt completely understand that, sounds geeky ;)		14:10
lardman\|busy	fine for the short term, but if you did that I think it should be flagged as something to be improved when the time is right	14:10
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X-Fade	achipa: It is an option. Also good to discuss that first ;)	14:11
lardman\|busy	the difficulty is where to stop once you start saying that everything must be split into libs	14:11
X-Fade	achipa: curiously, how big would a package be?	14:11
achipa	X-Fade: good question, have not yet experimented with it	14:11
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lardman\|busy	achipa: can you statically link? Doesn't Python do late binding, etc	14:12
lardman\|busy	would that work	14:12
achipa	lardman\|busy: pythod does, but PyQt is very much C++ on the inside :)	14:12
lardman\|busy	ok	14:13
achipa	i.e. I can link the Qt stuff to the wrapper itself, not pretty, but should work	14:13
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achipa	lardman\|busy: in fact, there is even a cleaner way, PyQt seems to be able to do this out of the box, see http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk/static/Docs/PyQt4/pyqt4ref.html and search for consolidate	14:17
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achipa	well, certainly worth an experiment... though I probably wouldn't promote something like that all the way to extras. It sure is tempting for extras-devel, though	14:19
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achipa	hey, this is interesting: apt-get install fennec says: E: Handler silently failed	14:26
* achipa just loves non-descript error messages		14:26
nid0	doesnt seem so silent	14:29
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crashanddie	achipa: error hunting 101: the last error is never the significant one.	14:34
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SpeedEvil	crashanddie: Unless it is.	14:36
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achipa	crashanddie: that's the fun part, that's not the last error. It's the ONLY error (supposedly, but I know better :) )	14:38
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nid0	bloody hell, all uk flights in and out grounded now	14:40
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achipa	http://imagebin.ca/view/ChcWJS.html	14:41
achipa	bazinga	14:41
crashanddie	nid0: tell me about it	14:41
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BCMM	can somebody help me with irreco? i won't connect to lirc	14:45
BCMM	and it appears that lircd isn't running	14:45
BCMM	not sure how to make it run	14:45
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BCMM	starting the init script warns me that there are no valid remotes	14:49
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Kurppa_	achipa: I think that might be because you have some old xulrunner installed, or might not have installed that at all.	15:08
Kurppa_	I have no clue if this is the problem, but try purging and reinstalling xulrunner first, then install fennec.	15:09
achipa	Kurppa_: will do, thx	15:09
X-Fade	Comes from Ovi, right?	15:09
TomaszD	how do you make newly installed desktop icons appear without rebooting the device these days?	15:10
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TomaszD	refreshing icon chace doesn't seem to work	15:11
TomaszD	*cache	15:11
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SpeedEvil	I can control what tracker oes with the config file in ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg	15:12
SpeedEvil	How do I control thumbnailer?	15:12
TomaszD	hmm, there is a tracker-cfg package	15:13
TomaszD	you could try that	15:13
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mece	Speedevil, you don't control the thumbnailer, the thumbnailer controls you!	15:31
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joker_89	hi	15:35
BenjaminWilk	hello	15:35
BenjaminWilk	:-)	15:35
joker_89	anyone knows python?	15:36
achipa	joker_89: shoot	15:36
Lumpio-	Wait	15:36
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Lumpio-	You... were not born with the Python?	15:36
Khertan_Home	joker_89, hi	15:36
joker_89	i am doing a sync using python, but i dont know how to show a text process like SENDING 1/100, SENDING 2/1000..	15:36
Treibholz	joker_89: guido does	15:36
joker_89	because i send all at the same time in JSON (like xml)	15:37
Khertan_Home	you need a gui framework :)	15:37
Lumpio-	pfft	15:37
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Khertan_Home	threading is your friend :)	15:37
joker_89	i have the progress bar working, but i dont know how mobiles detect item per item.	15:37
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talmai	joker_89: you send all items in one request? which library do you use for requests (pycurl, urllib)?	15:39
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joker_89	urllib	15:39
joker_89	i send all items serialized in json	15:39
joker_89	syncml do the same but in xml.	15:39
sejo	is there a good tutorial on how te package for the n900 (python app) got this link but isn't all that clear: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/How_to_build	15:40
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achipa_	"I would feel embarrassed if my mobile phone looked outdated"... WTF ?	15:40
sejo	achipa: eh?	15:41
Surfa	imagotuote	15:41
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achipa	sejo: looking at the maemo questionnaire. Gets weirder by the page	15:42
sejo	ach	15:42
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timeless_mbp	hey!	15:45
timeless_mbp	can someone please write a two way morse code application for us?	15:45
timeless_mbp	the sender should be the camera LED	15:45
timeless_mbp	and the receiver should be the primary camera	15:45
Khertan_Home	lol	15:45
SpeedEvil	mece: that depends on localisation.	15:45
sejo	timeless_mbp: that would be cool	15:45
timeless_mbp	bonus points for integrating with the share dialog	15:45
timeless_mbp	(ftp over morse code over LED)	15:46
sejo	hahaha	15:46
Khertan_Home	timeless_mbp, where did you get that idea ?	15:46
achipa	now getting really weird... "Holding this device and looking at it feels enjoyable. "	15:46
timeless_mbp	there's a guy standing by the window in the next wing	15:46
Khertan_Home	is it the cache method sync of nokia servers ?	15:46
achipa	am I just having the wrong mental image of things being enjoyable ?	15:46
Mek	in the canon firmware hacking community they have lots of experience with such things... blinking the leds is how they get dumps of the firmware of many cameras :)	15:46
timeless_mbp	he was moving around, i tried to wave my hand to say hello	15:46
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timeless_mbp	he didn't respond	15:46
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timeless_mbp	i asked sp3000 if i should send him an sms	15:46
timeless_mbp	he suggested using morse code	15:46
timeless_mbp	i realized we could do two way morse code...	15:47
timeless_mbp	the rest you know	15:47
Khertan_Home	quite funny idea	15:47
lcuk	ok timeless_mbp now it gets practical, how do oyu filter the other noise from camera nad know which is which	15:47
timeless_mbp	lcuk: the camera should be able to focus on the bright led	15:47
lcuk	does device send flashing sync signal	15:47
timeless_mbp	the led color will be fairly easy to spot	15:47
lcuk	until it gets an ack :D	15:47
timeless_mbp	and i'd hope it can focus on it	15:47
Khertan_Home	the difficult part will be read a led flash and differeciate it from the sun	15:47
lcuk	red recording led	15:47
lcuk	or white torch	15:48
lcuk	"filter other noise"	15:48
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lcuk	you find the 10hz flash from video stream or something	15:48
lcuk	send an ack flash back	15:48
lcuk	then continue	15:48
timeless_mbp	well, i think the messages will have to be half-duplex	15:49
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timeless_mbp	i think morse includes a GA (go ahead) message	15:49
achipa	"I spend more and more time taking care of myself, in order to feel good". What exactly is this getting at ? :S	15:49
timeless_mbp	so that shouldn't be too bad	15:49
timeless_mbp	achipa: "you're a girl"	15:49
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timeless_mbp	(probably a teenager!)	15:50
mece	hahahaha	15:50
mece	I had some good times with that survey.	15:50
achipa	timeless_mbp: seriously, the questionnaire is starting to worry me...	15:50
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: I wrote a python lib to decode morse code	15:50
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: to "read" morse code when you tap the screen	15:51
achipa	timeless_mbp: but then I figured it out. These are the control questions !	15:51
sejo	crashanddie: can you encode with it also?	15:51
crashanddie	sejo: well, it's easily reversible I guess, I never had to, so never implemented it	15:51
crashanddie	sejo: there's plenty of encoding libs out there	15:51
crashanddie	I won't have access to the lib until next month though, sorry	15:51
sejo	crashanddie: challenge of the day: encode and use the led :p	15:51
* mece sings 'black black black black number one!"		15:54
achipa	sejo: I've got a better idea, use the vibrate function for it ! And make a client that detects is via the accelerometer !	15:54
achipa	and then upgrade to intercontinental comms via longitudinal mechanical waves :)	15:55
sejo	achipa: that's so 90's	15:56
sejo	leds are in now	15:56
sejo	14:40:44 < achipa_> "I would feel embarrassed if my mobile phone looked outdated"... WTF ?	15:56
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sejo	remember?	15:56
kirma	if it wouldn't look like iphone?	15:57
achipa	sejo: I was missing the most obvious question "I would feel embarrasssed if it looked liked an iPhone"	15:57
achipa	exactly	15:57
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sejo	hehe	15:58
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achipa	on the plus side, the survey DID have penguins shooting LASERS from their eyes	16:00
achipa	and everything is better with lasers...	16:00
visz	http://www.lazertits.com/	16:00
pupnik	lol	16:00
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talmai	Is getsatisfaction.com considered as a valid bugtracker for extras QA?	16:01
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achipa	I'm lobbying to have http://www.zombo.com accepted as a valid link for handling end-user support	16:03
MohammadAG	devel down?	16:03
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talmai	I'm 100% serious, getsatisfaction is not some porn site, we use it as a issue report / funcionality request platform for our android/maemo apps	16:06
moo---	has anyone tried chrome on n900?	16:06
squidd	slow	16:06
Scelt	moo---: many	16:06
moo---	squidd: know that it is slow is enough in this poit	16:06
moo---	point	16:06
timeless_mbp	moo---: it's great, it shows people how much better microb is :)	16:06
Appiah	moo---: check the thread(s) on talk.maemo.org	16:06
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timeless_mbp	people don't really appreciate microb until they have something against which to compare it :)	16:07
achipa	talmai: sure, if it gives an option to handle user issues, it's OK	16:07
frosty`	timeless_mbp: hooray grammar	16:07
achipa	talmai: whether it's commercial or not matters little (well, unless you bombard users with ads or require payment/subscription to access it)	16:07
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timeless_mbp	frosty`: yeah,… grammar is hard	16:08
talmai	achipa, tnx for the info :)	16:08
achipa	np	16:09
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frals	lol thought this chick was eyeing me on the bus but no worries, she was staring at my n900	16:23
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DangerMaus	hehe good taste	16:24
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Veggen	frals: My girlfriend (who has an iPhone) already envies my N900.. :)	16:26
Treibholz	"What? It works without iTunes?"	16:27
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dubzii	Choosing a phone that doesn't work with iTunes is easy	16:28
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frals	Veggen: hehe, my gf got a 5800 and shes so jealous of my hw keyboard :)	16:28
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nid0	my girlfriend has an hd2 and she really likes blubbels	16:30
nid0	other than that she prefers the sense ui on hers :p	16:30
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n00bmonk3y_Work	frals......	16:32
n00bmonk3y_Work	You know there is always the odd winge from randoms in tmo about fmms not being integrated into the system so to speak... is it worth a mini statement on your plans in a separate thread?	16:33
timeless_mbp	"blubbels"?	16:33
n00bmonk3y_Work	i'm thinking to keep the plans separate to the development thread so to speak	16:33
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frals	n00bmonk3y_Work: bah, ill update first post in fmms thread... plan to do a new topic when i promote to testing anyway	16:34
n00bmonk3y_Work	ahhh good point ;) sorry didnt mean to add more work for ya!	16:34
frals	dunno what good posting a new topic would do as ppl dont search before posting anyway :p	16:35
frals	hehe np, didnt mean it like that	16:35
frals	just getting tired by users who dont read before posting as there seems to be a constant flow of them :P	16:36
n00bmonk3y_Work	:D - lol was just a thought a sthe current mega thread is useful - but is more dictated around the development, was thinking of explaining the mms v integration aspect to the masses.... - second thoughts, might not make sense separatley - but in the first post would be good :D	16:36
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n00bmonk3y_Work	frals: know exactly what you mean ;)	16:37
frals	:)	16:37
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pupnik	quiet...	16:42
rmrfchik	pew	16:43
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* DocScrutinizer hears you can't get laid with showing off a N900 o.O		16:43
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Stskeeps	someone in here claimed it was possible	16:44
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: vagalume was great for that on n8x0 though	16:44
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kamui	who posted the lazertits.com	16:45
kamui	funky monkey	16:45
Scelt	visz	16:45
Nils^	hey people. First: Yesterday or the day before I asked about custom shortcuts, for example terminal with ssh connection. There was no answer but it was indeed very easy and I have the solution	16:45
visz	=o	16:45
Nils^	you have to create a .desktop in /usr/local/something (just find . \| grep .desktop). For example copy the one from midnight commander.	16:46
visz	everything is better with lasers	16:46
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Nils^	Now a new question: I have a fake PS3 controller. The manual says it uses "2.4GHz radio frequency (RF) technology". Do you think I might be able to connect this to my n900 ?	16:47
visz	=D	16:48
Treibholz	Nils^: no.	16:48
DocScrutinizer	Nils^: http://my.arava.co.il/~matan/repo/Modified_Hildon_Desktop.html plus d-bus scrpting schould do	16:48
Nils^	for PS3 I have to use a special USB Dongle (or for PC)	16:48
Treibholz	Nils^: is it Bluetooth? or does it have its own connector?	16:48
Nils^	Treibholz: like I said, own connector. No sign of bluetooth anyware	16:49
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DocScrutinizer	Nils^: aah sorry. thought you talk bout kbd-shortcuts	16:49
Nils^	DocScrutinizer: I meant the basic connection first :)	16:50
Treibholz	Nils^: no, won't work.	16:50
Treibholz	Nils^: unless you tinker a usb-adapter to the usb-host... but... no, you don't want that.	16:50
Nils^	ok, So I have to buy a 60€ controller to connect to my n900, which I won't do.	16:51
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visz	Nils^, what would you use the controller for?	16:52
Nils^	visz: Emulator games	16:52
visz	with tv-out?	16:53
Nils^	its not exactly easy with the n900 keyboard :) . Yes, sometimes with TV-Out.	16:53
crashanddie	lmao	16:54
crashanddie	I just love people who think of a mobile device and go "ooooh, games"	16:54
DocScrutinizer	actually it's a bit of a pitty we got no SDR for 433/866/2400MHz	16:54
crashanddie	just get a wii, seriously	16:54
lardman\|busy	crashanddie: wii + portable LCD tv you mean? ;)	16:54
Nils^	lardman\|busy: don't feed the trolls.	16:54
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: FPGA! (+ V12)	16:54
crashanddie	lardman\|busy: they're talking about a ps3 remote control, and tv out	16:55
crashanddie	lardman\|busy: what's portable about that?	16:55
lardman\|busy	true, /me moves on	16:55
lardman\|busy	crashanddie: was just your comment about seeing portable device & thinking of games	16:55
crashanddie	fairy nuff	16:56
visz	Nils^, don't know it it's possible, but how about: ps3-controller:usb -> usb:laptop:wlan -> wlan:n900	16:56
Nils^	:) this might be a step too much.	16:56
DocScrutinizer	NOW I need a coffee	16:57
visz	=D	16:57
Nils^	I have a PS1/2->Adapter, wired, too. But this has a normal sized USB connector. I don't know about the differences USB/mini-usb	16:58
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: fpga=powerhog, that's the street talk	16:58
Nils^	micro-usb I mean	16:58
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: hence the v12	17:03
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: what's V12?	17:04
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DocScrutinizer	a otto-motor?	17:06
lardman\|busy	v12?	17:07
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Anss\|	12 voltages?	17:07
lardman\|busy	I thought most otto cycle engines were 4 cylinder	17:08
DocScrutinizer	lardman\|busy: where you're living?	17:08
DocScrutinizer	GDR?	17:08
lardman\|busy	in fact the original was single cyclinder apparently	17:08
lardman\|busy	DocScrutinizer: Bath	17:08
DocScrutinizer	aah no there those were 2 cyl	17:09
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lardman\|busy	I was just thinking of the Prius ICE which is supposed to operate close to a true Otto cycle iirc, though I may be wrong	17:09
DocScrutinizer	I was moe thinking like in USA all engines are at least 8 cyl	17:09
lardman\|busy	ah yes	17:10
lardman\|busy	and if you're a learner you have a V6	17:10
spliffy	is it possible to deactivate the gsm modem with an unchanged n900? i'm filling out the survey and can't remember	17:10
nid0	offline mode	17:10
lardman\|busy	spliffy: yes, airplane mode	17:10
lardman\|busy	or that one	17:10
spliffy	kk	17:11
DocScrutinizer	spliffy: there's 'an app fot that'	17:11
spliffy	DocScrutinizer: i guess i have it installed	17:11
DocScrutinizer	it's called tablet mode if you want to keep the WLAN	17:12
spliffy	but it only makes the switch more comfortable	17:12
spliffy	?	17:12
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spliffy	yeah. i want that out of the box	17:12
lardman\|busy	I'm off, cu all tomorrow	17:12
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BenjaminWilk	i need a function to add up values in a column and give it back / out in normal text	17:15
BenjaminWilk	in the same topic of course	17:15
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* GAN900 groans		17:26
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* GAN900 is a bit worried the Nexus One is offering system updates with no internet access.		17:35
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Khertan_Home	GAN900, ?	17:36
nid0	its that clever	17:36
Khertan_Home	how is it possible	17:36
GAN900	Khertan_Home, no idea	17:36
GAN900	Secret Google darknet?	17:36
Khertan_Home	hum ... slow download	17:36
microlith	subspace radio!	17:36
Treibholz	via RDS	17:36
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GAN900	No SIM in the phone, not associated with any WiFi network.	17:36
Khertan_Home	slow index ... and purpose it only after a certain delay	17:36
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stefan_e	quote:	17:37
stefan_e	Help us to make N900 and our future MeeGo products better by taking the survey on http://maemo.nokia.com/survey/ thanks!	17:37
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smaug	uh, my N900 seems to have annoying bug nowadays	17:38
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smaug	if I don't reboot every now and then, after unlocking the screen I need to wait few seconds before it start to work properly	17:39
smaug	timeless: have you heard of something like that?	17:39
* smaug goes		17:40
GAN900	By the way, the only notable content in Ari's talk yesterday was that the N900 has been an "overwhelming" success.	17:40
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nid0	in fairness though, theyd say that regardless unless it'd been a total complete unmitigated disaster	17:41
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mva	hi there!	17:42
thresh	анти-хруст.	17:42
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GAN900	nid0, the sense that I got was that it was, in fact, a complete fucking insane runaway success	17:42
GAN900	Which is a function of Nokia being completely incapable of backing the platform, but still.	17:42
GAN900	I saw more N900s there yesterday than Android devices	17:43
nid0	they didnt give any sales figures that I saw right, iv always been interested to know how accurate the "30k a month wasnt enough, we upped production to 100k" rumours are	17:43
mva	kernel-flasher-maemo don't updating (new version conflicts with defaul kernel and modules)	17:43
Stskeeps	GAN900: saw my post on best practices?	17:43
GAN900	nid0, yeah, no idea	17:43
GAN900	Stskeeps, nope	17:43
Stskeeps	GAN900: Proposal for Best Practices for working in a MeeGo team on meego-dev/meego-community	17:43
mva	thresh, 1) no russian here, 2) learn russian transliteration, you're wrong	17:44
thresh	no i'm not.	17:45
mva	yes, you are	17:45
mva	:)	17:45
GAN900	The MeeGo shirts they gave out are so lightweight I swear they're women's. . . .	17:45
lcuk	GAN900, hows your nexus	17:45
Anss\|	that's understandable :)	17:46
GAN900	lcuk, there's no SIM in it, so, meh.	17:46
mva	если читать так, чтобы в том моем нике была бы "у", то тогда там "кс" вместо "х" и "п" вместо "р"	17:46
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mva	а в оригинале - "анти" на английском, а дальше по-русски "христ", но т.к. тут нельзя юникодные ники - подбирались похожие буквы	17:47
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mva	that is right way :)	17:47
* RST38h_ sighs		17:48
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GAN900	lcuk, bergie's Nexus One booting to the bootloader because of a low battery was a pretty impressive failure mode.	17:49
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pupnik	GAN900: next camera should be on top edge of device and rotatable so i can snapshot forward whild looking down at drvice	17:50
thresh	there's no y in your nick anyway	17:50
Khertan_Home	ouch ... maybe someone can help me ... how to change my password settings on the maemo website ?	17:50
mva	yep	17:50
mva	:)	17:50
Khertan_Home	didn't found it in profile page	17:50
RST38h_	pupnik: Should be made wireless and removable from the device	17:50
Khertan_Home	:)	17:50
RST38h_	pupnik: For those tight places that you sometimes want to snap pictures of...	17:51
pupnik	i thought my idea was realistic	17:51
RST38h_	pupnk: Prolly no: rotatable = mechanics = failure prone	17:51
Khertan_Home	hum ... the n800 one was well working )	17:51
lcuk	RST38h_, bablyon 5, g'kar had a removable eyeball that did that	17:51
Khertan_Home	:)	17:52
Khertan_Home	lol lcuk	17:52
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Khertan_Home	look also for a kino in stargate universe ... works well :)	17:52
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GAN900	Stskeeps, I'm not seeing it.	17:56
Stskeeps	GAN900: hmm	17:56
Stskeeps	GAN900: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-April/001612.html	17:57
* ShadowJK wonders if you're allowed to use the report button on tmo to suggest thread merges		17:57
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frals	love how i got a shellscript working which when im going through it now shouldnt work at all	17:59
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* ShadowJK wonders how bme is driving bq24150		18:11
ShadowJK	battery is declining whilst on charger and "battery full" state, but not declining as fast as when not on charger :)	18:12
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nid0	according to battery-eye graphing, my battery discharge rate is the same when on the charger as when not	18:15
nid0	in fact if anything on the battery it's slightly faster decline	18:15
nid0	which would be explained by the green led being lit	18:15
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MohammadAG	ShadowJK, well at least yours doesn't go from 60 to 0 % in one minute (not a redraw thing)	18:20
ShadowJK	mine goes from 100 to 0 ;)	18:20
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MohammadAG	in 1 minute? don't think so :)	18:21
ShadowJK	the meter shows full bars and lshal\|grep percent shows 100 until about 25-30% remaining, where it jumps to 0 and battery low :)	18:21
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MohammadAG	ShadowJK, http://i40.tinypic.com/2l42dg.jpg definition of 60 to 0 in the last section	18:22
MohammadAG	I also think it's Nokia's profits after releasing the N97	18:22
ShadowJK	that looks a bit like a reboot	18:23
MohammadAG	but it wasn't one :)	18:23
ShadowJK	the jump up, I mean	18:23
MohammadAG	hmm, maybe it got wrong values and it didn't actually charge?	18:24
ShadowJK	add voltage to the graph	18:25
MohammadAG	hmm, that was less than a week ago, does it keep history?	18:25
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n00bmonk3y_Work	Stskeeps: Oh clever one........ Am i right in thinking ... harmatten is not meego (obvious i know) ....... but the 2 developments are not directly related?	18:26
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MohammadAG	nvm, it does!	18:26
Stskeeps	n00bmonk3y_Work: what?	18:27
n00bmonk3y_Work	ie next maemo development versus meego - and its relation to nokia's infamous step 4/5	18:27
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, basically he's saying, are the Maemo 6 and MeeGo teams related?	18:28
n00bmonk3y_Work	yeah kinda	18:28
MohammadAG	(and he's thinking they're not)	18:28
n00bmonk3y_Work	preferably not inbred too ;)	18:28
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Chewtoy	Anybody knows where one can get a hold of a foldable bluetooth keyboard?	18:28
n00bmonk3y_Work	well i'm trying to understand the relation to the step 4 (ie n900) - step 5 - i assumed harmatten - and did meego just kinda join in the party?	18:29
Chewtoy	Been searching for quite some time now.	18:29
n00bmonk3y_Work	Chewtoy: from a foldable bluetooth keyboard manufacturer ;)	18:29
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n00bmonk3y_Work	lol sorry not much help i know	18:29
Chewtoy	They seem very hard to track down...	18:29
* n00bmonk3y_Work thinks i've confuzzled Stskeeps		18:29
nid0	n00bmonk3y_Work	18:29
Stskeeps	n00bmonk3y_Work: you're assuming i know anything about anything	18:30
nid0	healthcheck needs a promote, no? :p	18:30
ShadowJK	MohammadAG, upload screenshot of voltage and capacity? :)	18:30
n00bmonk3y_Work	nid0: yeah, assumption is the mother of all fcuk ups, but you are clever ;)	18:30
n00bmonk3y_Work	nid0: 3 days	18:30
n00bmonk3y_Work	or 2 days now lol	18:30
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, capacity? (voltage coming up)	18:30
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, http://i41.tinypic.com/9sbiwj.jpg	18:30
nid0	o yeah, i counted days wrong :( 2 days to go	18:30
ShadowJK	If batterygraph can do it, displaying both the percentage and voltage at same time	18:30
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n00bmonk3y_Work	:D	18:31
ShadowJK	hm, no scale	18:31
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n00bmonk3y_Work	16/10 votes and i think 3 seniors , so should be ok in 2 days :)	18:32
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, there is one, but it's only visible at the end of the graph (screenie coming up)	18:32
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nid0	yeah you're covered for the 3 testing squad votes	18:33
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, http://i40.tinypic.com/5ludcl.jpg (not the best scale I've seen)	18:33
wazd	hello people :)	18:33
MohammadAG	hey wazd	18:34
n00bmonk3y_Work	hey wazd	18:34
n00bmonk3y_Work	nid0: - new version will go into devel tomorrow - and be pumped into testing soon after the promotion	18:34
nid0	nice, whats new?	18:34
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n00bmonk3y_Work	going to change the navigation and tidy up the styles a bit	18:35
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n00bmonk3y_Work	also - adding some better led and pattern tests	18:35
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n00bmonk3y_Work	+ trying to figure out an ear speaker test	18:35
nid0	is one of the led tests gonna be cycling through every colour? :P	18:35
n00bmonk3y_Work	yup	18:35
nid0	nice	18:35
n00bmonk3y_Work	+ combination of colours	18:35
n00bmonk3y_Work	so far it's about 9 seconds to get the full rainbow effect	18:35
nid0	did you make a decision on how to stresstest/benchmark btw?	18:35
n00bmonk3y_Work	nid0: yes... but will not be implemented for a little while, many many tests for me to evaluate and consider	18:36
MohammadAG	<n00bmonk3y_Work> + trying to figure out an ear speaker	18:36
* MohammadAG has ideas...		18:36
* n00bmonk3y_Work prods MohammadAG		18:36
MohammadAG	call echo123 using skype :P	18:36
* n00bmonk3y_Work is going for a ciggy... will come back to your lovely ideas shortly		18:36
n00bmonk3y_Work	MohammadAG: meh	18:37
n00bmonk3y_Work	should be easier then that	18:37
nid0	to stresstest rather than a pure benchmark, anything that attempts to calculate pi or prime number iterations will undoubtedly be the best bets	18:37
MohammadAG	I was jk anyways :P	18:37
ShadowJK	MohammadAG, the voltage was in the higher end of low-batteru-warning threshold... In my measurements with the mugen battery, there'd be about 30% remaining (full - shutdown) at that point.	18:37
* andrewfblack 's website hit a new high for view in 1 day yesterday		18:38
slonopotamus	hehe	18:38
slonopotamus	"The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't suck is probably the day they start making vacuum cleaners." -Ernst Jan Plugge	18:38
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dubzii	Lol	18:38
ShadowJK	I encountered a General Electric vaccuum pump this week. It didn't suck. :(	18:38
ShadowJK	on the other hand it was hot enough that I could have made toast	18:39
ShadowJK	MohammadAG, the battery low before that came at about 3500mV which is far closer to shutdown	18:40
ShadowJK	it starts dropping fast after that though :D	18:40
ShadowJK	(shutdown happens at 3200mV)	18:40
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MohammadAG	ShadowJK, it shutdown on 0v before that	18:42
ShadowJK	eh :)	18:43
MohammadAG	is there a way to get rid of apt-worker? it annoys me :P	18:43
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slonopotamus	MohammadAG: mv /usr/sbin/apt-worked /usr/sbin/apt-worker.gone?	18:44
slonopotamus	:)	18:44
* andrewfblack was up at 2am changing google password and running virus scans on windows computers in house		18:45
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MohammadAG	slonopotamus, and I'm assuming that would make it show errors every day at 12AM? :)	18:45
* n00bmonk3y_Work returneths		18:45
MohammadAG	andrewfblack, I was up at 5AM fixing a package :P	18:45
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ShadowJK	MohammadAG, looks like you got quite close to 3200mV at one point... The meter doesn't update often enough to accurately catch the rapid fall from about 3300 and down :)	18:46
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andrewfblack	MohammadAG: 5am I was leaving for work	18:46
MohammadAG	andrewfblack, I went to bed after fixing it :P	18:46
MohammadAG	was up for 24h	18:46
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slonopotamus	err... you go below 3500?	18:47
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, you do realize this isn't with a mugen right?	18:47
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ShadowJK	Yes, but voltage behaves the same with all batteries	18:47
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MohammadAG	<MohammadAG> ShadowJK, it shutdown on 0v before that	18:48
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MohammadAG	s/0/3227/	18:48
infobot	MohammadAG meant: <MohammadAG> ShadowJK, it shutdown on 3227v before that	18:48
andrewfblack	MohammadAG: I built a package last night also : )	18:48
MohammadAG	:)	18:48
MohammadAG	andrewfblack, theme?	18:48
andrewfblack	MohammadAG: yep	18:48
* javispedro notes that some -developers messages are appearing blanked in gmane		18:48
* n00bmonk3y_Work built a package last night too.... no change there		18:49
n00bmonk3y_Work	gmane?	18:49
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ShadowJK	Yeah, at 3227 all it takes is to touch the screen and it goes below 3200 for a split second, and the shutdown gets triggered :)	18:49
* nid0 built a server last night		18:49
DocScrutinizer	heh, you battery hackers having fun ? :-D	18:49
andrewfblack	MohammadAG: did it all by hand this time sliced images then wrote all the control files and such much more fun then using a program to do it for me	18:50
MohammadAG	andrewfblack, that's easier sometimes lol	18:51
MohammadAG	especially for optification	18:51
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MohammadAG	~curse 256MB root	18:51
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, 256MB root !	18:51
DocScrutinizer	btw voltage does not behave same way for all cells	18:51
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DocScrutinizer	not even for cells of same type	18:51
DocScrutinizer	there are still subtle diffs in cell chemistry	18:52
ShadowJK	yes	18:52
ShadowJK	and differences in internal resistance	18:52
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DocScrutinizer	yes	18:52
andrewfblack	MohammadAG: I don't know about that maybe a little easier, my problem is since this theme isn't open source and I needed a .deb instead of source package I couldn't use MADDE an autobuilder to do it for me. I've never goten Theme Maker to work since it was updated for Fremantle.	18:52
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Stskeeps	andrewfblack: you can build in the SDK if need be	18:53
MohammadAG	andrewfblack, I thought there weren't package builders for themes	18:53
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MohammadAG	thought you used dpkg-buildpackage for that	18:53
MohammadAG	(with -b for binaries only)	18:54
* n00bmonk3y_Work raises an eyebrow		18:54
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Stskeeps	andrewfblack: did you look into if it's OK to do things like that with the cc sa by 2.5 license, btw?	18:54
Stskeeps	(reason i'm wondering is because the last thing i would like to see is a C&D from nokia towards you :P)	18:55
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, I wonder if I could estimate a battery's internal resistance using nothing but an N900 and bw27200 and bq24150 :)	18:55
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andrewfblack	Stskeeps: Yeah since I'm changing the image in the template its ok.	18:55
* n00bmonk3y_Work will let the maemo lemmings loose on nokia if they do ;)		18:55
Stskeeps	andrewfblack: fair enough	18:55
andrewfblack	Stskeeps: I almost got a C&D from Nokia once before	18:56
nid0	tbh, someone should write a touch lemmings game for maemo	18:56
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Stskeeps	andrewfblack: oh?	18:56
n00bmonk3y_Work	yup and get a C&D from nokia..... blasted lemmings	18:56
* Stskeeps didn't hear that story		18:56
andrewfblack	Stskeeps: Even wondered why I closed Maemobox.org?	18:56
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Stskeeps	andrewfblack: ah yes, trademarks	18:56
Stskeeps	the sad fact is they have to defend them or lose them :/	18:57
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andrewfblack	Stskeeps: Not that their are not 1000 websits using it now that are making money off their sites with ads and I was helping hte community with my site. I could have changed the name and kept it going but I closed it	18:57
Stskeeps	andrewfblack: :nod:	18:58
ZogG_N900	who wanted me in here :D	18:58
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ZogG_N900	stskeeps, it's lame to use grafic smilies in irc chan	18:59
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Stskeeps	ZogG_N900: eh.	18:59
ZogG_N900	try xchat	18:59
ZogG_N900	so sup guys?	19:00
slonopotamus	:nod: doesn't really look like a smilie	19:00
nid0	whats xchat got to do with typing :nod:?	19:00
Stskeeps	it isn't	19:00
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Stskeeps	it's an equivalent of nod	19:00
frals	pretty scary when a mod stealth merges threads	19:00
guysoft42	hi all, does anyone know how to use mbarcode? i seem to have only a scan button, but not sure how its suppose to translate the 2D barcode	19:01
ZogG_N900	i thoug it's something like :bored:smiles	19:01
Stskeeps	no	19:01
ZogG_N900	guysoft42 open lens and scan	19:01
ptl	what will come first, Meego PR1.2 or Maemo PR1.2 ? :P	19:01
guysoft42	ZogG_N900, ok, and once it sees a barcode?	19:02
guysoft42	seems to to do anythong	19:02
ZogG_N900	iphone os 5	19:02
MohammadAG	ptl, 2012	19:02
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: (cell Z) sure - should be a straight forward approach	19:02
ZogG_N900	guysoft42 u have to lock it in proper way. it would save image and provide url	19:02
ptl	MohammadAG: yeah but which one will come first?	19:02
ptl	meego's or maemo's?	19:02
n00bmonk3y_Work	frals: even worse when they stealth merge 2 mega threads..... the servers start leaning sideways ;)	19:03
ZogG_N900	mohammadag are u from jerusalem?	19:03
ZogG_N900	?	19:03
MohammadAG	yeah	19:04
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ZogG_N900	i'm from tlv	19:04
MohammadAG	ptl, 2010 is when we all die :P	19:04
ZogG_N900	:)	19:04
MohammadAG	2012*	19:04
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: seems we got several means to probe exact battery voltage, and bq27200 should be able to tell discharge I avrg for a iirc 4sec window	19:04
MohammadAG	(btw I'm jk, don't believe that ****)	19:04
MohammadAG	ZogG_N900, cool!	19:04
ShadowJK	5.12 sec	19:05
ZogG_N900	not me. i'll live till pr1.4	19:05
MohammadAG	I'll be going to Jordan soon hopefully	19:05
ZogG_N900	moving at all or for a while?	19:05
ShadowJK	iirc voltage is updated every 1.2 sec or something	19:05
MohammadAG	ZogG_N900, you're never dying then :)	19:05
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ZogG_N900	that's my point	19:05
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: so keep power consumption staedy at I(1) for 4sec, read out I and U, then do same for I(2)	19:06
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MohammadAG	ShadowJK, mAhs don't seem to get updated while charging	19:06
ZogG_N900	so how to jailbreak maemo?	19:06
ZogG_N900	with whitedus1?	19:06
ShadowJK	MohammadAG, yeeah nme only updates voltage while charging. and that only if you poke the screen	19:06
ZogG_N900	:)	19:06
BCMM_	it isn,t ex€tly jailed to start with...	19:07
BCMM_	woah, keyboard fail	19:07
ptl	jailbreak?	19:07
MohammadAG	ZogG_N900, no, y3ll0wp3ngu1n	19:07
ZogG_N900	u fail	19:07
MohammadAG	ptl, he's being sarcastic	19:07
ptl	oh	19:07
DocScrutinizer	BCMM_: DON't PANIC! ?	19:07
ZogG_N900	:)	19:07
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, so on N8x0 I collected large amounts of per-second I and U and never managed to turn it into any consistent internal resistance :)	19:07
ZogG_N900	i'm bored on bus	19:08
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, does it have to be on when I poke it? :P	19:08
BCMM_	docscrutinizer got pretty confused about video encoding	19:08
ptl	ZogG_N900: you can't jailbreak, but you can use a chroot jail :D like in easy-debian	19:08
ShadowJK	MohammadAG, yes	19:08
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, was jk... :)	19:08
BCMM_	i presume it needs to be a video that plays in media player?	19:08
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: N810 I and maybe U probing might be borked at large	19:08
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ZogG_N900	ptl i can just hammerbrake it also	19:08
ZogG_N900	so what is the possibility to port android apps?	19:09
ZogG_N900	we need java for that am i right?	19:09
luke-jr	nil afaik	19:09
ptl	not standard java	19:09
ptl	"android" java	19:09
ZogG_N900	what's the different?	19:10
luke-jr	android might as well be iPhone in that respect	19:10
ZogG_N900	difference	19:10
ptl	it has specific classes for androidisms (devices, security model and such)	19:10
ptl	and it uses dalvik to run.	19:10
ZogG_N900	so it's not possible?	19:10
DocScrutinizer	nope	19:10
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ZogG_N900	i mean in friendly way	19:10
* ShadowJK wants to get all of those stupid "Gold BL-5J 1930 mAh battery"-type crap people find on ebay, and do tests		19:11
ptl	I find it very improbably that someone does some compatibility layer for people to run android apps in maemo	19:11
ZogG_N900	damn	19:11
ptl	BUT	19:11
ptl	there's a port of android to the N900 and N8*0	19:11
ptl	called NITdroid	19:11
ZogG_N900	i know	19:11
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: get find on ebaeh? please rephrase	19:11
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ZogG_N900	but i don't need it. i want andego	19:11
ZogG_N900	andreego	19:12
microlith	ShadowJK: probably a fraction of the claimed voltage, if not lower than a regular BL-5J	19:12
microlith	err, capacity	19:12
ptl	andre klapper's ego?	19:12
ptl	andreego	19:12
ZogG_N900	but is it possible to port opensource programs?	19:13
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, I plan to buy a collection of the different "superbattery" people have found on ebay	19:13
ZogG_N900	if u port from java at all	19:13
ShadowJK	and test them	19:13
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ShadowJK	for their capacity and internal resistance	19:13
ptl	ZogG_N900: yes, very straightforward indeed	19:13
ptl	ZogG_N900: there are many ports of standard linux apps to the N900	19:13
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: sorry, brain kickstart try 1 failed here	19:14
ZogG_N900	ptl i know	19:14
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ShadowJK	Also the "genuine original nokia BL-5J" from DX	19:14
luke-jr	ZogG_N900: Android sucks, simply.	19:14
ptl	I missed what you might be asking then, ZogG_N900	19:14
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: great plan, indeed	19:14
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ZogG_N900	but they aren't mobile apps	19:14
luke-jr	ZogG_N900: what you want is to run Android and Maemo concurrently, correct?	19:15
ptl	well, they become mobile once they're ported. :)	19:15
ZogG_N900	luke-jr maybe. but there r so many tasty apps	19:15
BCMM	ZogG_N900: it's a normal linux machine, applications are written in C using GTK and the X server	19:15
ShadowJK	Although Nokia itself says they can't tell some genuine and fake batteries apart without disassembly, I'm guessing there should be differences in the internal resistance atleast	19:15
ZogG_N900	luke-jr nope. i want varity of android apps on maemo	19:15
luke-jr	ZogG_N900: AFAIK, Android's kernel is still compatible with Linux and you should be able to combine it with MeeGo at some point	19:15
luke-jr	ZogG_N900: Android and Maemo GUI are completely different	19:16
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: though cell Z is a secondary parameter actually, of minor importance as long as it's not way too high	19:16
BCMM	android is linux of sorts, but with some kernel mods too weird to go upstream and a completely strange userspace	19:16
ZogG_N900	google is evil	19:16
javispedro	because android is the reincarnation of the BeOS!	19:16
luke-jr	BCMM: Google and Linux parted ways and Android is officially a fork now	19:16
ShadowJK	the bp-4l that came with my n810 has about 5 times higher ir now than when new :)	19:17
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ShadowJK	maybe more	19:17
BCMM	luke-jr: i'd say that's pretty much the same thing	19:17
BCMM	google isn't evil; all publicly-traded companies tend towards being amoral	19:17
luke-jr	BCMM: they are already incompatible at the patchset level	19:17
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: second source cells either might not meet the abs max ratings, and/or have a way higher self discharge	19:17
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luke-jr	BCMM: publicly traded companies inherently tend toward evil	19:17
BCMM	however, nokia understands that the open-source community is a good friend to keep	19:17
ZogG_N900	google helps opensource only for their good	19:18
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: Z wouldn't vary much I'd guess	19:18
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luke-jr	BCMM: Nokia isn't much better	19:18
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, I guess I could just attach ATX 12V PSU output to them and video what happens	19:18
ZogG_N900	nokia didn't use opensource as google til now	19:18
BCMM	i don't think nokia does it out of the goodness of their heart, because they're a company	19:18
BCMM	but i think they care more what the open source community thinks of them than google	19:19
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: all but the most crappy ones just will trip fuse	19:19
SpeedEvil	Because they have less resources to spend.	19:19
ShadowJK	ATX 5V then :)	19:19
SpeedEvil	Maintaining a fork has its own costs.	19:19
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naxu	without business there wouldn't be maemo/meego	19:19
luke-jr	BCMM: when you need to use people, you either pay them or are friendly	19:20
luke-jr	Google does the first; Nokia does the latter	19:20
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BCMM	luke-jr: certainly, but i don't feel that nokia is being exploitative so much as "paying in kind"	19:20
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luke-jr	BCMM: Nokia refuses to open the important parts, so I certainly feel exploited	19:20
BCMM	luke-jr: also, you've missed out the possibility of simply pressuring them microsoft-style, which is where google is going	19:21
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BCMM	luke-jr: actually, i'm kinda ignorant on that one	19:21
BCMM	luke-jr: which bits are still closed?	19:21
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luke-jr	BCMM: battery charging is the important bit Nokia has complete control over	19:21
BCMM	luke-jr: would it be possible to destroy a battery by overcharging without it?	19:22
luke-jr	there's also some other bits they don't have direct control over, but I can't blame them entirely for that	19:22
SpeedEvil	BCMM: hard	19:22
luke-jr	BCMM: I don't care.	19:22
luke-jr	it's my battery, I should be able to do what I want with it	19:22
BCMM	maybe some safety stuff is in software rather than hardware?	19:22
SpeedEvil	BCMM: you can ramp up the cycle count when on charger	19:22
BCMM	they may be afraid of liability	19:22
luke-jr	BCMM: maybe I want to make a smart bomb	19:22
BCMM	what i'm saying is that it may not be intentional screwing of open-source	19:22
luke-jr	once I buy the device, it's no longer Nokia's business to interfere with what I do with it	19:23
luke-jr	BCMM: closed source only makes it easier to accidentally make a smart bomb	19:23
nid0	thats a laughably blinkered and short-sighted attitude	19:23
naxu	again that depends a alot from where in the world you buy the device	19:23
luke-jr	you can still edit closed source software, it's just harder to do right and requires experimenting	19:23
BCMM	a little like those wifi manufacturers that are (somewhat ignorantly) concerned that it would be their legal problem if someone modded an open driver to disobey regulatory requirements	19:23
nid0	whether it's your device and whether you fucked about with the charging software, if you alter it and fuck your device, the headlines bemoaning shitty nokia will still damage nokia.	19:23
luke-jr	nid0: so let them weigh potential damage from bad press in such a situation	19:24
naxu	thats partly because of stupid miss-use of law in USA	19:24
luke-jr	with	19:24
DocScrutinizer	lucent: actually Nokia has rather little control over your battery charging. It's bq24150a chip that does the charging, even without much help from BME	19:24
luke-jr	me not buying their new devices	19:24
BCMM	down that road lies apple's "if people install shitty applications, they'll blame us"	19:24
nid0	luke-jr: I imagine they did, long and hard, which is why it's closed.	19:24
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: ^^^	19:24
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BCMM	but where batteries are concerned, they could genuinly be worried about people hurting themselves and blaming nokia	19:25
luke-jr	if enough people refuse to buy their stuff, they need to pick: possible risk vs certain loss	19:25
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: won't happen	19:25
nid0	and people are still buying their devices, because most people couldnt give 2 shits about whether the battery charging software is open or closed	19:25
luke-jr	nid0: exactly the problem :(	19:25
nid0	whereas they have hundreds of thousands of potentially breakable batteries if it's open	19:25
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DocScrutinizer	we're about to convince Nokia about they don't need BME	19:25
luke-jr	people need to start standing up for owning their purchases	19:25
dotblank	How safe is it to overclock the n900 to say 800mhz? Like can I still use it day to day?	19:26
luke-jr	nid0: they're already potentially breakable	19:26
DocScrutinizer	dotblank: no	19:26
GAN900	dotblank, not at all safe.	19:26
luke-jr	dotblank: in general, the harm of overclocking is long-term	19:26
dotblank	DocScrutinizer, how about 700mhz?	19:26
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DocScrutinizer	no	19:26
BCMM	i'd like to know about overclocking actually - is the clock limited by default due to cooling or due to battery?	19:26
luke-jr	dotblank: even if it works, the CPU will die much sooner	19:26
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dotblank	ah ok thanks	19:26
GAN900	BCMM, due to overvoltage	19:27
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dotblank	I didn't now CPUs were prone to die..	19:27
dotblank	know*	19:27
GAN900	MTBF goes down rather quickly after 600MHz	19:27
luke-jr	dotblank: especially modern ones...	19:27
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luke-jr	1990s generation were designed to last	19:27
luke-jr	but since 2000, they're designed to go 3-5 years or so	19:28
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dotblank	luke-jr, so they are designed to break basically..	19:28
naxu	perhaps people are not ready to pay for "designed to last" stuff	19:28
nid0	depends who you ask	19:28
nid0	<cynic>: designed to break and make you buy new ones	19:28
DocScrutinizer	dotblank: they are designed to run fast and be small	19:29
nid0	<realist>: people only tend to use cpu's for 3-5 years anyway before upgrading so why spend billions making them more durable	19:29
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dotblank	well I spent a lot of money for my n900...	19:29
dotblank	I expext my n900 to die from other factors in 3-5 years	19:29
DocScrutinizer	dotblank: so don't kill it with foolish overclocking	19:29
dotblank	expect*	19:29
GAN900	dotblank, there are realistic limits in technology and costs.	19:30
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naxu	first manufacturer limits cpu to run in safe speed to quarantee it doesn't break and then people ramp it up	19:30
nid0	which is exactly why theyre rated to certain clock speeds to last a reasonable time	19:30
nid0	you go above the rated speed, it's lifespand decreases	19:30
nid0	simple	19:30
dotblank	nid0, is the inverse true?	19:30
naxu	yeah.. and then blame "designed to break"	19:31
nid0	sortof	19:31
DocScrutinizer	decreases drastically	19:31
luke-jr	dotblank: everything breaks with age	19:31
dotblank	:( I like my gameboy	19:32
dotblank	its still going strong	19:32
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DocScrutinizer	nand and flash will wear out	19:32
luke-jr	dotblank: like, Z80? :p\	19:32
nid0	I bet it's also spent a lot of time switched off	19:32
DocScrutinizer	eventually, maybe next century	19:33
dotblank	wait 2-5 years of constant use or average use?	19:33
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dotblank	3-5*	19:33
nid0	the mtbf of the chip running at high clock frequencies is measured in hundreds/thousands of hours, and is time actually running at that speed	19:33
DocScrutinizer	MTBF is rated for operation hours	19:33
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luke-jr	constant, but power on/off isn't going to just freeze it	19:34
dotblank	ah.. well it doesn't matter my n900 is usually on 24/7	19:34
nid0	and your gameboy isnt :)	19:34
luke-jr	anyhow, the CPU isn't the only component	19:34
dotblank	nid0, your point is now very valid	19:34
luke-jr	in 3-5 years, something else would break too	19:34
luke-jr	why make a CPU to last 10-15 years if the rest will break first?	19:35
BCMM	i still have my 3410	19:35
tripzero	yes, but what if overclocking means it only lasts 1yr. or 6months? is it worth the risk?	19:35
dotblank	Well what is the lifespan of the battery?	19:35
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tripzero	dotblank, 6hrs	19:35
nid0	short. battery's replaceable though	19:35
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dotblank	tripzero, I wish my n900 had a 6hr battery	19:36
dotblank	mine goes down in about 3-4	19:36
tripzero	ouch	19:36
luke-jr	dotblank: try not using it	19:36
BCMM	dotblank: what do you do with it?	19:36
dotblank	everything	19:36
BCMM	yeah, what luke-jr said...	19:36
tripzero	mine lives at least until i get home from work	19:36
luke-jr	apparently Nokia thinks you're not supposed to use the device	19:36
BCMM	well, you can go out all day waiting for a phone call and it will deal with it	19:37
luke-jr	it's not a phone	19:37
BCMM	and if your'e actually doing stuff with it, it will still last longer than most netbooks	19:37
dotblank	well I have a car charger now	19:37
dotblank	so that helps drastically	19:37
nid0	I do have to wonder why the device has a relatively low capacity battery in it :<	19:37
luke-jr	my N810 dies in 15 minutes at most, so I keep it on AC constantly	19:37
tripzero	make a solar panel hat	19:37
DocScrutinizer	also keep in mind MTBF is the time when HALF of the devices actually FAILED. You got a gaussian curve around that of devices failing more early or which last longer	19:38
tripzero	and charge it in your pocket	19:38
BCMM	nid0: so it can be small	19:38
BCMM	if you don't mind size, get one of those external things	19:38
nid0	well, nokia have other batteries the same volume that're more powerful	19:38
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dotblank	I heard rumors about hi cap batteries	19:38
BCMM	nid0: oh	19:38
dotblank	that one from ebay	19:39
nid0	bp-4l is a prime example, that's several years older than the bl-5j, has almost identical volume, and is 1500mAh	19:39
luke-jr	dotblank: it's twice the size	19:39
luke-jr	nid0: perhaps it can't do as much instantaneously?	19:39
javispedro	or weights a ton more?	19:39
luke-jr	I seriously wouldn't mind my handheld being a bit thicker and weighing a bit more	19:40
luke-jr	even twice the thickness of my N810 would be tolerable	19:40
nid0	weight's pretty much the same. even if weight was the reason, id gladly take a fractionally heavier n900 for 10% better battery	19:40
naxu	I believe there is a reason for selecting current battery	19:40
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* javispedro 's preferred form factor is still the n810.		19:40
dotblank	like my n900 is my lifeline.. If I were to be stuck in a situation I would really really want my n900 and having it die on me is not very reliable	19:41
* nid0 's is the e90		19:41
Disconnect	javispedro: i'll trade you an n800 and n770 for an n900 :)	19:41
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Disconnect	for that matter, i have an e90 also. so pick any 2 :)	19:41
* luke-jr 's preferred form factor is still the C760 :/		19:41
nid0	you'll miss the e90's keyboard if you get an n900	19:41
Disconnect	ok people who's been poking around in my office? got a c760 too :)	19:41
javispedro	luke-jr: http://www.lexmark.com/publications/pubs_images/c760.jpg :)	19:42
Disconnect	http://www.mobiletechreview.com/sharp_zaurus_C760.htm	19:42
Disconnect	oops might be an 860. checking.	19:44
luke-jr	javispedro: fail	19:44
javispedro	I imagine :)	19:44
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luke-jr	speaking of which, anyone got detailed specs on the new IS01?	19:44
Disconnect	yah its an 860 on my shelf. should prolly see if it still works one of these days.	19:45
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luke-jr	Disconnect: my battery is useless	19:45
Disconnect	i -think- i stored the battery properly, but i won't swear to it. and its been at least a couple years.	19:46
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DocScrutinizer	that's definitely NOT a proper storage then	19:47
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DocScrutinizer	you must recharge LiIon at least every 6 months	19:47
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DocScrutinizer	after a few years of storage odds are it's dead to deep self discharge	19:48
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DocScrutinizer	s/dead to/dead due to/	19:49
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: after a few years of storage odds are it's dead due to deep self discharge	19:49
ShadowJK	I didn't think li-ion discharges itself that fast	19:49
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ShadowJK	unless it has a hungry chip in it..	19:49
luke-jr	http://au-is.jp/products/images/is01/features/photo03.jpg	19:50
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: that largely depends on quality of the cell (see my above comment on second source)	19:51
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SpeedEvil	Charging to 40%, placing in freezer works well	19:52
SpeedEvil	charge every few months	19:53
SpeedEvil	(for me)	19:53
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DocScrutinizer	if the cell uses a thin separator for good electrical properties wrt capacitance and Z, then any impurities in manufacturing process tend to more likely pierce that separator creating micro-shorts	19:53
DocScrutinizer	and also more likely goes boom due to same problem	19:54
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itdock	lol	19:54
Disconnect	the manufs tend to call for 90% charge (or so) followed by cool storage (not freezing) and it should be good for months to years. at 100% its good for weeks to months.	19:55
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Disconnect	but in any case, maybe i'll break it out this weekend and mess with it	19:55
itdock	what voltage would it be at 40%	19:55
* itdock gets out his trusty fluke 115		19:55
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DocScrutinizer	depends	19:56
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DocScrutinizer	it's more about actual voltage than about capacity anyway	19:56
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itdock	k, what voltage should it be at then	19:56
itdock	:P	19:57
ShadowJK	what is it at?	19:57
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DocScrutinizer	so if the cell is less than 4V and more than 3V7 you usually are in the 'green range' for storing	19:57
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itdock	so 3.7-4v, and in the fridge?	19:57
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DocScrutinizer	10°C	19:58
DocScrutinizer	actually 0°..10°	19:58
itdock	freezer then	19:58
itdock	ok	19:58
X-Fade	New lipos usually have 3.80 - 3.85 when I get them.	19:58
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ShadowJK	freezer is -18 :P	19:58
DocScrutinizer	NON-FREEZING	19:59
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ShadowJK	non-condensating helps too ;)	19:59
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DocScrutinizer	yep, a lot	19:59
itdock	lol ok	19:59
DocScrutinizer	platic bag with silica gel	19:59
ShadowJK	X-Fade, that sounds right	20:01
ShadowJK	I think that's where the lowest degradation takes place	20:01
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DocScrutinizer	yes	20:02
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DocScrutinizer	some laptops have a 'treat battery gentle' setting, where the cells aren't charged to the max allowable voltage. Supposed to prolong bat lifespan by factors	20:03
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DocScrutinizer	yet it's probably much better not the keep the battery pack plugged in to a device that warms up the whole thing to 45°+ all the time, while hooked up to mains	20:05
SpeedEvil	Freezer is -18. But look at the cell datasheets - I haven't found one that says storing at -20 isn't OK	20:06
DocScrutinizer	not? me did	20:07
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DocScrutinizer	actually -20 isn't even allowable for all operational conditions	20:08
ShadowJK	The bq27200 temperature readings scare me	20:08
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ShadowJK	33 right now. Seen 51C	20:09
DocScrutinizer	forget the temp readings, they are mostly bogus	20:09
DocScrutinizer	that's die temp of the chip afaik	20:09
evil\|Jonne	small question about ssh access, what username and password should i use? I don't remember setting one	20:09
ShadowJK	I guess the ones from gaia's madc would be more useful	20:09
PhonicUK	anyone know if the quake 2 port uses GLES or is it just software rendering?	20:10
frals	am i being silly or isnt it obvious to long tap an image to get a context menu?	20:10
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ShadowJK	evil\|Jonne, it asks you to set a root password when you install openssh. If you've forgotten it, you cn install rootsh and do 'sudo gainroot' followed by 'passwd root' to set it again	20:11
DocScrutinizer	evil\|Jonne: you have set a root password when installing ssh	20:11
evil\|Jonne	ok, i'll try again	20:11
DocScrutinizer	user has no pw by default, so no ssh into user account	20:11
evil\|Jonne	oh, ok	20:12
evil\|Jonne	i did set one	20:12
evil\|Jonne	tnx, logged in now	20:12
DocScrutinizer	yw	20:12
evil\|Jonne	can i set up a pass for user?	20:12
DocScrutinizer	yes	20:12
evil\|Jonne	meh, i guess root is fine	20:12
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DocScrutinizer	evil\|Jonne: I suggest to set up decent ssh keys and log in to user by default	20:14
DocScrutinizer	most convenient, most safe	20:14
evil\|Jonne	i might just do that	20:14
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evil\|Jonne	i'm trying to find a way to have my phone mount wirelessly on my pc when i get home	20:15
evil\|Jonne	without having to do anything	20:15
kynky	cron job every 5 mins ?	20:15
evil\|Jonne	i don't know how to do it yet, i guess whatever doesn't put too much load on my phone	20:16
DocScrutinizer	with a ping or sth, yes	20:16
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DocScrutinizer	nah, cronjob on your home PC	20:16
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evil\|Jonne	maybe i could have a daemon that listens on avahi or something	20:17
evil\|Jonne	has anyone blogged about something like that yet so i don't have to reinvent warm water?	20:18
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DocScrutinizer	~nuke avahi	20:22
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at avahi ... B☢☢M!		20:22
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BCMM	how long does an n900 take to charge?	20:28
MohammadAG	4 hours here	20:28
BCMM	hmm	20:28
BCMM	longer if you're using it?	20:28
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MohammadAG	that's if I'm using it	20:28
BCMM	gah, xchat is highlighting my own messages	20:28
lcuk	depends on wind, and usage at the time, radios, screen, cpu etc.	20:28
MohammadAG	I think it takes 1.5-2h	20:28
MohammadAG	lcuk, what about gravitational force?	20:28
BCMM	is there a way i can get xchat to always highlight BCMM, but not automatically highlight everything said by BCMM?	20:29
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BCMM	sorry, that didn't make a great deal of sense	20:30
BCMM	this is a computer	20:30
BCMM_	and this is my phone	20:30
lcuk	MohammadAG, the battery uses the accelerometer to compensate on the direciton of the electron flux flow	20:30
lcuk	to ensure the polarity of the warp core is aligned correctly	20:30
lcuk	or something like that	20:31
Proteous	lol	20:31
MohammadAG	lcuk, what if I'm at the north pole	20:31
MohammadAG	and have the charger in the south pole	20:31
lcuk	you have frozen nuts	20:31
javispedro	acccccccccelerometer.	20:31
javispedro	not magnetometer.	20:31
javispedro	;P	20:32
frals	thats one long fuckin cord MohammadAG	20:32
MohammadAG	frals, extensions XD	20:32
BCMM	hmm	20:32
lcuk	much shorter if its been dug through	20:32
BCMM	what's the simplest way to look at accellerometer data?	20:32
lcuk	liqflow	20:32
lcuk	you can touch it too :D	20:32
BCMM	i mean, to just get three numbers in m/s	20:32
frals	BCMM: wiki.maemo.org should have excellent documentation if you want to use it for programming	20:32
BCMM	nah, just interested	20:33
MohammadAG	lcuk, umm, I meant it goes through the center of the earth	20:33
MohammadAG	i don't have one long enough to go around the globe	20:33
BCMM	what is available?	20:33
BCMM	three axes?	20:33
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* frals heads back to trying to wrap his head around BCD encoding and HPLMN		20:33
lcuk	liqacceltests	20:33
BCMM	and is there a rotation sensor, or does one just guess rotation from the direction of gravity?	20:33
Jaffa	timeless: ping	20:34
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Jaffa	(or anyone else: kcan a proxy be used with browser in Scratchbox?)	20:34
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BCMM	i have seen several password management things	20:35
BCMM	is there any way to integrate with or import from kwallet?	20:36
DocScrutinizer	bat charge time 3:30 according to Nokia specs in L1/2	20:36
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DocScrutinizer	during first ~60 minutes excessive power consumption of system will slow down charging, afterwards not	20:37
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* slonopotamus managed to drain battery faster than it charges		20:38
slonopotamus	*manages	20:38
SpeedEvil	There is no absolute direction sensor, only the accel.	20:38
DocScrutinizer	that's quite possible especially when charging from PC host @ 500mA	20:38
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slonopotamus	no, even stock n900 charger	20:39
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DocScrutinizer	hmm that's bad. You really push it to the limits.	20:39
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cehteh	huh .. how that?	20:40
slonopotamus	intensive cpu usage + wifi + bright screen = really fast battery drain.	20:40
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cehteh	means 1.2A at least ..	20:40
DocScrutinizer	BQ24150 charger chip can supply 1050mA (@ 5V aiui). So that'd mean your system blasts out >5W	20:40
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slonopotamus	well, under 100% cpu load n900 lives for 3 hours	20:41
cehteh	yeah it should melt :P	20:41
DocScrutinizer	nah, you obviously use GPRS or 3G quite a lot	20:41
cehteh	well, see the overclocker crowd	20:42
* RST38h yawns at the moon		20:42
DocScrutinizer	even CPU shouldn't be able to suck that much power	20:42
cehteh	anyone fried his n900 yet?	20:42
javispedro	moo RST38h	20:42
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RST38h	slono: how about the top temperature? Transmission seems to bring n900 to the boiling point	20:42
RST38h	javis: Heya indeed	20:42
slonopotamus	DocScrutinizer: using 3g while on charges is a strange thing :) since charger = wall = house = wifi hearby	20:42
slonopotamus	*nearby	20:42
cehteh	are there user reachable temperature sensors?	20:43
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cehteh	tell the battery-graph author to integrate them :P	20:43
DocScrutinizer	cehteh: no, but some trolls electrocuted err -migrated their CPU to senility	20:43
Disconnect	slonopotamus: ...you gonna install wifi in my car? :)	20:43
Disconnect	that'd be sweet	20:43
Disconnect	thanks :)	20:43
slonopotamus	Disconnect: you have 220v in your car? :)	20:43
DocScrutinizer	cehteh: you're talking gibberish	20:44
Disconnect	slonopotamus: 110 actually, but yes.	20:44
slonopotamus	Disconnect: ricer!	20:44
Disconnect	jeep. with an ac adapter in it for laptops and the wif's cell (since she lost the car charger). nice leap you made to that conclusion though, but next time be more careful - your pants fell down and your racism was showing..	20:45
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slonopotamus	you do 12v -> 110v -> 5v conversion. extremely ineffective	20:45
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slonopotamus	or cars have 24? can't remember	20:45
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jaska	most have 12	20:45
* slonopotamus failed to get joke about racism		20:46
* DocScrutinizer failed to get any joke		20:46
Disconnect	slonopotamus: around here at least, ricer is slang for an asian with a lowered sticker-endowed civic or similar. hence the "rice" part.	20:47
DocScrutinizer	~dict ricer	20:47
infobot	Dictionary 'ricer' a kitchen utensil used for ricing soft foods by extruding them through small holes	20:47
slonopotamus	meh	20:48
slonopotamus	be more geeky	20:48
* DocScrutinizer shrugs and wanders away for more intriguing stuff		20:48
MohammadAG	lol	20:48
slonopotamus	or die.	20:49
SpeedEvil	Impressive.	20:49
slonopotamus	:)	20:49
SpeedEvil	I get a maximum load of ~1.5A	20:49
Disconnect	when i'm not driving a billboard i'll consider spending a few hundred on various laptop-to-car adapters for efficiency. until then, the ac adapters are $30 or so :)	20:49
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: how?	20:49
SpeedEvil	Recording video while sending file over 3G, and md5sum /dev/zero at the same time	20:50
DocScrutinizer	GPRS/3G full blast	20:50
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Shapeshifter	this survey was kinda lame. and it's buggy.	20:50
SpeedEvil	Annoyingly, the camera mutes the media player - so I couldn't have that at full volume too	20:50
BCMM	hmm those accellerometer toys are fun	20:51
BCMM	but i was looking for something that would give me a value of little-g	20:51
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SpeedEvil	hmm - mplayer doesn't mute video player	20:51
BCMM	and allow me to determine which planet i'm on	20:51
slonopotamus	SpeedEvil: md5sum /dev/zero? and what value did you get?	20:51
BCMM	surely that would never return?	20:51
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SpeedEvil	BCMM cat /sys/whatever/coords - and it reads out x/y/z accel	20:52
SpeedEvil	slonopotamus: do it and let me know	20:52
BCMM	isn't /dev/zero an infinite number of nulls	20:52
BCMM	?	20:52
SpeedEvil	yes	20:52
* slonopotamus charges his n900 from TV :/		20:53
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slonopotamus	something's broken in this world	20:54
SpeedEvil	I suspect using mplayer to record from the big camera, with flashlight on, while streaming a file to 3g, and md5sum of the mmc and sd, with fm transmitter on, fm radio on, and mplayer playing something loud to the speakers, with bounce running would be pretty much the maximum.	20:55
SpeedEvil	Well - easy maximum	20:55
slonopotamus	overcomplicated	20:55
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slonopotamus	just compile firefox	20:55
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SpeedEvil	that only does the CPU	20:55
lcuk	SpeedEvil, you forgot to connect your bt keyboard	20:55
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: yeah - that too - but bt won't add that much. wlan up too at the same time is hard with current software	20:56
slonopotamus	actually i drsin n900 battery in 2 hours with just browser + 3g.	20:56
SpeedEvil	I'm sure under 1 hour is quite possible.	20:56
frals	god this encoding is silly	20:56
slonopotamus	frals: all encodings are silly	20:57
slonopotamus	use UTF-8. it's silly too, but at least works for everyone.	20:57
spliffy	speedevil: if you want to go faster you need to oc :D	20:57
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frals	slonopotamus: in this case its BCD encoding of bytes, but yeah ^^	20:57
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slonopotamus	meh	20:58
DocScrutinizer	(1A5 power consumption) refer NOKIA_RX51_SM_L3_4.pdf, p170 (6 System Module, Energy Management, Power Distribution block diagram)	20:58
slonopotamus	frals: you were so excited talking about it so i googled wtf is bcd :)	20:58
DocScrutinizer	sorry scratch that, once again they managed to spoil it at lowest possible level of the game, electric current annotations mostly missing there	20:59
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* ShadowJK has seen 1100mA consumption		21:06
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BCMM	anyone know what the n900's value of g is?	21:06
microlith	g?	21:07
DocScrutinizer	the N900 itself probably has some atto-g	21:07
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javispedro	~answer	21:08
infobot	42	21:08
BCMM	hmm i assume it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_gravity	21:08
* ShadowJK makes a guess: 9.81m/s^2		21:08
javispedro	there you have.	21:08
sp3000	timeless_mbp: my one-handed handle abuse survived just finr until 10m before home ;)	21:08
* sp3000 had to switch ends		21:08
BCMM	if so, it's really pretty accurate...	21:08
BCMM	accurate enough to notice that UK gravity is slightly higher	21:08
N900evil	BCMM: it's not	21:08
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: that's earth's g	21:08
DocScrutinizer	not N900's	21:09
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: 9.81 is not correct for all parts of earth	21:09
BCMM	(9.8 is)	21:09
N900evil	BCMM: the accelleromedters are specified to +-20% or so sensitivity	21:09
ShadowJK	I guess n900's g would vary alot depending on where on its surface you were standing	21:09
DocScrutinizer	yeah, somewhere near core it's much less XP	21:09
BCMM	9.78 in jakarta	21:10
BCMM	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_gravity#Comparative_gravities_in_various_cities_around_the_world	21:10
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: correct :-D	21:10
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N900evil	there is considerable variance between n900s	21:10
DocScrutinizer	~question	21:11
infobot	from memory, question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html	21:11
BCMM	9.81 is basically a british exam board value	21:11
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DocScrutinizer	~answer	21:12
infobot	42	21:12
timeless_mbp	sp3000: ouch	21:12
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM: N900's g-sensor is a LIS302. Datasheet is publically available	21:13
BCMM	ah, looks like my value of 1008 is much, much higher than any earth value of g	21:13
DocScrutinizer	N900evil: btw N900 has just one accel	21:13
BCMM	eh?	21:13
N900evil	yes - variation between n900s	21:14
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: no, as you got no clue yet on what the unit of those 1008 actually is	21:14
dsster	It has ... ARRIVED	21:14
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: i assumed it was 1000th of the international standard gravity	21:15
N900evil	it's nominally milligee	21:15
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: might be	21:15
N900evil	but measured very im.precisely	21:15
DocScrutinizer	so an error of 0.8% isn't bad	21:16
BCMM	DocScrutinizer: and it would still be wrong if it was, for some reason, calibrated for mexico city	21:16
BCMM	(one of the lowest-gravity places on earth)	21:16
N900evil	it is not calibrated	21:16
BCMM	oh, it's not bad at all	21:16
dsster	It's so awesome	21:16
N900evil	it assumes a value of 18mg/bit.	21:16
N900evil	This varies in reality considerably.	21:17
N900evil	there is no per-sensor calibration	21:17
BCMM	i wonder how accurate it could be if you calibrated it	21:17
DocScrutinizer	see datasheet	21:17
BCMM	even roughly by using an accepted local value of g	21:17
RST38h	well it seems to be calibrated to -1000..1000 somehow	21:17
N900evil	it assumes a value of 18mg/bit.	21:17
N900evil	the spec is from 15 to 22 IIRC	21:18
DocScrutinizer	see datasheet see datasheetsee datasheetsee datasheet	21:18
RST38h	datasheetsee?	21:18
BCMM	RST38h: 1000 is supposed to be a g, you can go much higher by shaking it	21:18
RST38h	as in datashitsy?	21:18
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: +/2 or +/-8 iirc	21:19
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BCMM	hmm	21:20
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BCMM	i'd never throw something so expensive around	21:20
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BCMM	but i am tempted to develop a script taht makes it scream if it detects freefall	21:20
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lcuk	BCMM, play n900fly	21:21
BCMM	lcuk: is that the one that estimates flight time from a throw?	21:21
DocScrutinizer	hight	21:21
BCMM	same thing :)	21:21
ShadowJK	oh manh	21:22
DocScrutinizer	yep	21:22
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woglinde	~seen stskeeps	21:22
infobot	stskeeps <~chobits@Maemo/community/distmaster/Stskeeps> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 1h 45m 18s ago, saying: 'after working a while with rpm, i'm fairly happy with it'.	21:22
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ShadowJK	I thought my mp3 player was broken and was just going to disassemble it - turns ou the AAA battery I stole from someone was empty. Who the fuck puts dead batteries back in the box :-(	21:22
luke-jr	wait... Stskeeps is chobits??	21:22
woglinde	hi luke-jr	21:23
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luke-jr	hi woglinde	21:23
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slonopotamus	woglinde: he is already happy for 105 minutes!	21:24
woglinde	with rpm	21:24
woglinde	cannt believe it	21:24
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woglinde	hm has somone running a git linux-omap kernel on the n810?	21:24
slonopotamus	in the past	21:25
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slonopotamus	it's totally broken currently	21:25
woglinde	slonopotamus hm could you see dmesg output?	21:25
slonopotamus	woglinde: nope, not me	21:25
woglinde	hm okay	21:26
woglinde	I tried to get it working with kexec	21:26
Stskeeps	woglinde ?	21:26
dsster	how do i type ~ in n900?	21:26
woglinde	so I can easily switch kernels	21:26
slonopotamus	haha	21:26
woglinde	ah stskeeps see my linux-omap questions	21:26
ShadowJK	dsster, fn+sym, double tap ~ from the thing that pops up	21:26
ShadowJK	if you tap it only once, and then press n, you get ñ	21:27
woglinde	slonopotamus but without kernel output I cannt see whats going wrong	21:27
woglinde	at least usbnet seems to work	21:27
Stskeeps	woglinde: yes, termana - there's a thread on talk.maemo.org	21:27
slonopotamus	ShadowJK: i doubt he has vkb while doing kexec	21:27
dsster	ooh cool ty	21:27
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ShadowJK	slonopotamus, I didn't know dsster was doing kexec?	21:27
slonopotamus	ah	21:27
* slonopotamus messed up		21:27
ShadowJK	yes :P	21:27
luke-jr	woglinde: the time it would take to port mainline or Linux-OMAP to N8x0 would cost me more than a N900 ;(	21:28
Stskeeps	termana's work seems pretty ok :P	21:28
luke-jr	also, kexec is untested mostly AFAIK	21:28
luke-jr	Stskeeps: I haven't checked it lately	21:28
Stskeeps	woglinde: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48929	21:28
woglinde	MeeGo hardware adaptation for N8x0?	21:29
woglinde	ah thanks	21:29
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luke-jr	http://elinux.org/N800	21:29
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luke-jr	hmm	21:30
woglinde	luke-jr yeah this side I already read	21:30
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luke-jr	Termana hasn't updated it	21:30
woglinde	and I have kernels	21:30
woglinde	but not kernel output	21:31
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johnsq	Hi	21:31
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woglinde	hms okay	21:32
woglinde	here is no good omapfb driver for N8x0 for Xorg sadly	21:32
woglinde	from stskeep	21:32
Stskeeps	woglinde: use Xomap, or help write one :P	21:32
wazd1	damn, e63 gets new firmware like every month :)	21:33
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luke-jr	woglinde: fbdev works	21:33
woglinde	luke-jr okay what I have to compile to see it?	21:33
woglinde	with which patches?	21:33
lcuk	tech heads: how many times can i safely flash a device before it starts to lose its marbles	21:34
dsster	hmm i cant figure out why it doesn't want to type it in. It's selected but it wont type it out	21:34
Stskeeps	lcuk: i have flashed my device an obscene amount of times	21:34
woglinde	lcuk a lot	21:34
lcuk	:) thats good to know	21:34
* lcuk is also being a little obscene atm		21:34
woglinde	hi lcuk	21:34
luke-jr	~seen termana	21:34
infobot	termana <~bradley@CPE-138-217-247-42.lns2.wel.bigpond.net.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 7h 55m 33s ago, saying: 'ScriptRipper: Didn't you have some sort of release you had to work on that was important, rather than try to (for no needed reason) justify yourself to us? :P'.	21:34
lcuk	hiya woglinde :)	21:35
woglinde	luke-jr?	21:35
luke-jr	woglinde: ?	21:35
Stskeeps	woglinde: there's links in the end of the thread for kernels i thin	21:35
Stskeeps	k	21:35
luke-jr	Stskeeps: any idea where Termana's git trees are?	21:35
wazd1	I wonder if symbian handsets will receive all that fancy symbian ^3 stuff	21:35
woglinde	luke-jr I fear he has none	21:36
woglinde	luke-jr so I dont need anypatches from you right?	21:36
dsster	I think maybe sip doesn't recognize ~ as a valid character? possible>	21:36
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woglinde	hm	21:37
woglinde	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=604049&postcount=1	21:37
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luke-jr	woglinde: I don't do patches.	21:38
luke-jr	http://gitorious.org/~Luke-Jr/linux-omap/n8x0 is all my work	21:39
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woglinde	hms	21:39
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woglinde	why stskeeps write it then	21:39
woglinde	Originally Posted by Stskeeps View Post	21:39
woglinde	On a silly sidenote: I had MeeGo base system running on my N810 with 2.6.33 kernel (+ Termanas, luke-jr's patches) some weeks ago.	21:39
luke-jr	woglinde: presumably he means the diffs in my git branches	21:40
woglinde	g	21:40
Stskeeps	woglinde: i used one of termana's kernels	21:40
Stskeeps	which was based on luke-jr's wor	21:40
Stskeeps	k	21:40
luke-jr	Stskeeps: Termana have a git tree?	21:41
frals	DOH, just my luck, my operator isnt in /etc/operator_settings	21:41
frals	could someone do me a favor and run dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=com.nokia.phone.SIM /com/nokia/phone/SIM Phone.Sim.read_hplmn	21:41
frals	and tell me what operator they are using and in what country so i can use it as test for my algo?	21:41
lcuk	from which firmware?	21:41
frals	should work on any	21:41
SpeedEvil	frals: pastebinning output	21:41
lcuk	then someone else can :) im tied up	21:41
* andrewfblack needs to focus on themes when he gets home tonight and not play video games all night		21:41
lcuk	maemo is a video game	21:42
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woglinde	g	21:42
supertramp	hola	21:42
supertramp	guys - is there some quick way how to enable /var/log/wtmp?	21:43
woglinde	luke-jr but with your .config I see kernel output on the display right?	21:43
luke-jr	I think so	21:43
lcuk	question: is there a command line way to create and configure a wifi net configuration	21:43
lcuk	so i can shove it in MyDocs and just run it after reflashing	21:43
Stskeeps	lcuk: gconf mayb	21:44
Stskeeps	e	21:44
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lcuk	without mucking with full restore	21:44
lcuk	possibly Stskeeps	21:44
lcuk	need to look at how backup does it - ive typed net settings in so many times today	21:44
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frals	woho my algo is working \o/	21:45
frals	now just to parse that darn file	21:46
lcuk	heh	21:46
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lcuk	Stskeeps, i think the ash cloud is after you	21:47
lcuk	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/7592774/Volcanic-ash-cloud-spreading-towards-London-forecast.html	21:48
lcuk	forget the london bit - it went over .dk and now its turning round to get you!	21:48
frals	over dk hell its over .se	21:48
Stskeeps	lcuk: if this continues, i'm pondering if i can fly on tuesday :P	21:49
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frals	all air traffic over sweden closed from 22 localtime	21:49
lcuk	i think a lot of people are	21:49
* lcuk curses net connect		21:49
frals	this better clear up before im going to hel or im taking the boat over :P	21:49
woglinde	volcanic ashes wow	21:49
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lcuk	worst part, i thought iceland had a smoking ban	21:51
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SpeedEvil	Sunset should be pretty - hopefully	21:52
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Stskeeps	frals: hmm, when are you flying up?	21:52
frals	25th	21:52
Stskeeps	ah	21:53
frals	going back home the 27th	21:53
frals	assume im gonna miss you again? ;)	21:53
Stskeeps	:nod:	21:53
frals	doh :<	21:54
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frals	well atleast i can ambush vdvsx this time for sure	21:54
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* lcuk waits patiently		21:55
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* frals distracts lcuk with bacon		21:56
frals	what you recompiling?	21:56
* lcuk munches contentedly whilst waiting for something to finish something		21:56
frals	ah, reflashing :P	21:56
lcuk	i reflashed already	21:56
lcuk	now ive configured system and doing something else	21:56
frals	:D	21:57
frals	btw your wlan ap's are saved at /system/osso/connectivity/IAP	21:58
lcuk	o_O curious, ill try something in a minute then	21:58
lcuk	thanks	21:58
* lcuk cannot stop the process thats underway		21:58
lcuk	you are a bastard frals btw	21:59
frals	o_O	21:59
lcuk	i wasnt hungry till u mentioned bacon	22:00
frals	:D	22:00
woglinde	bacon	22:00
lcuk	frals, "/system/osso/connectivity/IAP" is not a folder - is this gconf as sts suggested	22:01
frals	lcuk: uh yeah, gconf	22:01
frals	sorry for not making that clear	22:01
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* lcuk is just distracted		22:02
lcuk	i opened folder on other device and though "hold on"	22:02
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timeless_mbp	/var/lib/gconf/....	22:10
timeless_mbp	you can use the file system	22:10
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timeless_mbp	it's just officially wrong to do so :)	22:10
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timeless_mbp	note that w/ maemo5 the accesspoint names are no longer gconf keys	22:11
timeless_mbp	so you kinda need to use grep	22:11
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lcuk	timeless_mbp, supposing i just have one	22:18
lcuk	its for personal use i just need to restore access point settings very often	22:19
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_henke_	yo ppl	22:19
lcuk	hi henke	22:19
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dmj726_n900	anyone else looked at clutter-box2d?	22:20
woglinde	luke-jr still there?	22:20
_henke_	anyone using fish encryption in xchat ?	22:21
_henke_	i cant load the fish.so file	22:21
_henke_	says it cant find it	22:21
_henke_	but im pointing at it via gui	22:21
_henke_	anyone have any ideeas ?	22:21
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woglinde	I dont have an aquarium	22:22
_henke_	why not woglinde ? :-)	22:22
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_henke_	can i access the installation path of applications ?	22:23
_henke_	coz xchat prefers that u copy the plugins to its plugin dir	22:24
N900evil	fish.so is not an arm binary?	22:24
lcuk	_henke_, xchat on n900?	22:24
lcuk	because if so, the .so you have is likely not there	22:24
_henke_	lcuk yeah it works nicely	22:24
lcuk	because it will be built for x86 i bet	22:24
N900evil	you cannot just load x86 binary plugins	22:24
_henke_	ah okey	22:24
lcuk	would be fun if you could	22:24
_henke_	u got a point there	22:24
N900evil	IIRC someone looked at building for arm, and it was nasty.	22:25
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_henke_	hmm really	22:25
roland	hallo???	22:25
_henke_	that wasnt the news i wanted :-p	22:26
_henke_	but thanks for the heads up N900evil	22:26
N900evil	good luck.	22:26
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roland	some germans here??	22:26
_henke_	no	22:26
_henke_	:-)	22:26
woglinde	roland no	22:26
woglinde	g	22:26
timeless_mbp	lcuk: well, officially you'd use gconftool-2 or the backup app	22:27
roland	but experts???	22:27
luke-jr	woglinde: no	22:27
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woglinde	luke-jr I forgot the question anyway	22:27
DocScrutinizer	get a new kbd, your questionmark key is broken	22:27
woglinde	sigh kernel crashed again	22:28
MohammadAG	umm, any way to spoof a DNS?	22:28
MohammadAG	aka fake it	22:28
lcuk	timeless_mbp, thanks ill dig more next time it annoys me	22:28
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: etc/hosts?	22:29
roland	okay. i need help with installation the sdk... can some help me plz???	22:29
N900evil	help with what aspect?	22:29
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roland	gui installer: ..... failed: 4/9 installing sdk targets	22:30
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, not a local one	22:30
DocScrutinizer	next tripple-? will earn you a kick :-/	22:30
woglinde	args	22:30
woglinde	I tried the false kernel	22:30
MohammadAG	basically i'm trying to spoof the DNS being replied/sent to the PS3 (which is connected via a linux box as a proxy)	22:31
ruskie	MohammadAG, run your own DNS server	22:31
MohammadAG	roland, what are you going to use it for anyways	22:31
ruskie	and make it resolve that	22:31
N900evil	install bind	22:31
ruskie	or maradns	22:31
ruskie	or powerdns	22:31
ruskie	or any other dns server	22:31
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ruskie	hellp dnsmasq should do it	22:32
MohammadAG	hmm, will try that, but i doubt it'll work	22:32
roland	bloody beginning of creating a little app...	22:32
MohammadAG	trying to fake sony's DNS	22:32
MohammadAG	roland, what language?	22:32
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ruskie	I debated if I wanted a phat or a slim decided to go with a slim	22:32
roland	german	22:32
MohammadAG	o.o	22:32
ruskie	so don't have this issue... though still sucks	22:33
woglinde	hurray	22:33
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woglinde	it worked	22:33
woglinde	okay	22:33
woglinde	I can see the kexec menu	22:33
MohammadAG	ruskie, well, it's not a slim/phat issue	22:33
woglinde	okay	22:33
MohammadAG	it's the otheros	22:33
ruskie	MohammadAG, slim doesn't have otheros	22:33
ruskie	:)	22:33
MohammadAG	if you're on 3.15, you can install cfw to enable it	22:33
MohammadAG	^	22:33
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woglinde	now I only need to integrate kexec on 33.1	22:33
ruskie	MohammadAG, anyway have no wish for it	22:33
MohammadAG	you sound like you updated though	22:33
MohammadAG	@ ruskie	22:34
noobmonk3y	hmmmmmm	22:34
ruskie	MohammadAG, there are some existing DNS servers that spoof it	22:34
johnsq	woglinde: 2.6-omap on n810?	22:34
ruskie	MohammadAG, so you just need to set them up in the PS3 and it should work	22:34
MohammadAG	ruskie, running linux without acceleration sucks, but I need it for homebrew (not piracy crap, against it)	22:34
MohammadAG	ruskie, they were blocked yesterday	22:35
roland	Inconsistency detected by ld.so: rtld.c: 1192: dl_main: Assertion `(void *) ph->p_vaddr == _rtld_local._dl_sysinfo_dso' failed!	22:35
roland	E: Scratchbox command 'sb-conf setup' returned error 0.	22:35
roland	V [21:15:13 15.04.2010]: Failed to install SDK	22:35
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MohammadAG	actually, the day before	22:35
roland	these are the logs	22:35
MohammadAG	13/04	22:35
ruskie	OT here	22:35
woglinde	johnsq unfornatly 2.6.33.1 vanilla with some patches from Termanas, luke-jr's	22:35
MohammadAG	NOT*	22:35
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MohammadAG	:)	22:35
ruskie	see PM ;)	22:35
MohammadAG	roland, use the scripts, I hate the GUI	22:35
roland	what scripts???	22:36
johnsq	woglinde: when everything works, than it makes no difference.	22:37
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woglinde	johnsq plain vanilla has none kexec-arm stuff	22:37
woglinde	but I will try now the .config on git	22:38
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DocScrutinizer	roland: second warning!	22:40
woglinde	johnsq could think is I can test the kernels without flashing	22:40
woglinde	flashers is good in that way	22:40
woglinde	ups flasher	22:40
roland	warning? why?	22:41
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johnsq	woglinde: would be good, i have always trouble with my self build kernels.	22:42
MohammadAG	I love this country	22:42
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MohammadAG	http://gizmodo.com/5518002/ipad-imports-banned-in-israel	22:42
luke-jr	woglinde: what? nobody has vanilla remotely working afai	22:42
luke-jr	k	22:43
woglinde	luke-jr????	22:43
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luke-jr	woglinde: it's linux-omap + patches, not vanilla	22:43
woglinde	yes I said this	22:43
luke-jr	omap	22:43
luke-jr	not vanilla	22:43
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woglinde	vanilla + patches	22:44
luke-jr	no	22:44
luke-jr	omap + patches	22:44
DocScrutinizer	~tell roland about question	22:44
woglinde	luke-jr Termanas 33.1 patches are against vanilla	22:45
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luke-jr	woglinde: it's impossible to get the display working with vanilla...	22:46
luke-jr	unless his diff includes all of linux-omap, which would be insane	22:46
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woglinde	luke-jr I am not lying	22:47
woglinde	please look at his patch	22:47
woglinde	maybee its whole linux-omap	22:48
woglinde	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=604110&postcount=2	22:48
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dsster	oh man just got the n900 seems all im doing is updating for the past hour :(	22:50
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dsster	woot 1.3ghz stable	22:58
BCMM_	don't cook it	22:58
dsster	lol just kidding i wont overclock my new n900 just yet :)	22:58
BCMM_	or yourself	22:58
dsster	In a week or so :)	22:59
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toresbe	Overclocking the N900 seems a bit silly to me...	22:59
dsster	it is completely silly	22:59
dsster	this thing is a monster	22:59
toresbe	Though I suppose it might feasibly have a positive effect on the battery	22:59
toresbe	if power consumption increases slower than computing speed, that is	23:00
dsster	that's undeclocking	23:00
toresbe	No, underclocking hurts battery life	23:00
dsster	Because it takes more cycles to go to a lower frequency?	23:01
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dsster	I've read about that just a few days ago, makes sense i guess	23:01
toresbe	no -- because time spent working at a slower frequency is still taxing the battery	23:01
toresbe	much better to get the task out of the way quickly so the CPU can suspend nearly completely	23:01
dsster	oh, yeah makes sense too	23:02
toresbe	http://mjg59.livejournal.com/88608.html	23:02
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aep	btw, any idea why my n900 won't go lower then C1? complete fresh flashed	23:04
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toresbe	aep: afaik it might just be the CPU that doesn't go into a less responsive state	23:09
aep	well it did when it was new	23:09
toresbe	hmh.	23:10
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kamui	that sounds silly	23:15
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SpeedEvil	aep: some things stop it	23:16
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SpeedEvil	aep: try as a first cut turning off wifi, and killing all apps but an xterm	23:17
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DocScrutinizer	poertop	23:19
DocScrutinizer	powertop even	23:19
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DocScrutinizer	dsster: toresbe: the whole topic is to be found when googling for 'run for idle', and SmartReflex is supposed to take care about optimizing to the sweetspot between long active periods with low clockfreq and short acticity bursts at high performance which take unproportionally more energy per cpu op	23:23
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DocScrutinizer	together with cpufrq-governour and other sw and probably hw bits	23:24
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t-tan	a kernel with low voltage and 500-850MHZ gives me the best battery performance	23:30
t-tan	the repository queue is broken again...	23:30
Shapeshifter	t-tan: you got some graphs to support that?	23:33
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DocScrutinizer	lol	23:33
GAN900	Hehe	23:34
t-tan	Shapeshifter: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=609777&postcount=2686	23:34
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Shapeshifter	I heard SmartReflex is broken. Is it, and how could this be fixed?	23:34
DocScrutinizer	BS	23:34
javispedro	yeah, "idle" time?	23:35
SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: Debug the causes for it not working.	23:35
SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: Fix them.	23:35
Shapeshifter	t-tan: well. Could you do a more sane "idle" test with like, say, 2G always on, always online in some 3 jabber accounts with regular email checking?	23:35
Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: so it is broken?	23:36
aep	SpeedEvil: i did try all of this. there is nothing waking it up. it just refuses to go below C1.	23:36
t-tan	Shapeshifter: pay TI to fix it.	23:36
SpeedEvil	Shapeshifter: Some devices are unstable.	23:36
Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: ahh, okay.	23:36
aep	unfortunately i lost the powertop binary for maemo :/	23:36
t-tan	Shapeshifter: please try it yourself. the are zillions of scenarios and every user has a different usage pattern. find your optimum	23:37
SpeedEvil	t-tan: I would personally be very cautious of believing what batterygraph is saying.	23:37
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SpeedEvil	t-tan: Especially extrapolations like that.	23:37
t-tan	s/the/there/	23:37
infobot	t-tan meant: Shapeshifter: please try it yourself. there are zillions of scenarios and every user has a different usage pattern. find your optimum	23:37
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK has a tool that reads out the instantaneous current average over the last 5 seconds.	23:37
SpeedEvil	This is - IME - a much more consistent tool.	23:38
javispedro	did someone already beat my 95h idle record?	23:38
t-tan	if what else should I trust? if all battery parameters tell me that the battery is hardly discharging...	23:38
MohammadAG	IME?	23:38
SpeedEvil	Or rather - the cumulative average over the 5 second period	23:38
SpeedEvil	In my Experience.	23:38
t-tan	where is that tool?	23:38
* SpeedEvil pings ShadowJK.		23:39
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: take that: 26h active	23:40
t-tan	javispedro: you slept for 95h? ;-D	23:41
javispedro	active doing what? :P	23:41
SpeedEvil	I've had ~30 hours or so on wifi + ssh +xchat	23:41
javispedro	t-tan: no, it was on Nokia Care for nearly a month and since I had all my data on the N810 and was lazy to pass it over I kept using the n810.	23:42
SpeedEvil	It gets down to maybe a fifth of that in the most deepest sleep with wifi on but nothing running - xchat adds a fair amount	23:42
t-tan	we need some proper automatized battery benchmarks. BTW, LCD consumes most of the energy	23:43
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DocScrutinizer	only on 100%	23:44
frals	javispedro: idle as in doing nothing and just being left alone? pretty sure i have that beat	23:45
DocScrutinizer	of my 26h, the LCD was on ~50%, though at very low brightness	23:45
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javispedro	frals: idle with wi-fi, skype, 30 minute modest and on mostly 1-2 hours max.	23:46
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frals	ah, negative on that :p	23:46
javispedro	skype was the worst offender IMO.	23:46
frals	forgot my dev device was on when i left, got back 4 days later and it was still on, but no wifi active during that time	23:46
javispedro	I should repeat that some day without skype.	23:46
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Shapeshifter	sersiously, I don't know what you're doing with your devices. The only way of getting to the end of the day without an empty battery is by not using the device. I get up in the morning at like 10:00 and go online on 4 jabber accounts. I go out of the house connecting to 2G and browsing the web at crawling speeds for half an hour. If I'd use 3.5G for half an hour, that would cost me at least like 10% battery. I occasionally check my ...	23:48
Shapeshifter	... mail during the day or send a few IMs and again browse the web on the way back. At 18:00, I have 25% left if everything worked well.	23:48
javispedro	yes, I am talking about not using.	23:48
javispedro	it.	23:48
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javispedro	with 100% CPU and screen on (snes) I get top 3 hours and a bit	23:49
Shapeshifter	the battery life is utter crap on the n900. I'd use it soo much more if the battery would last. Yeah ok I'll get another battery but seriously, all the people saying they're getting 30h out of it "having the screen on 50% of the time"..... you're not really using it, are you.	23:49
Shapeshifter	javispedro: yeah same here with VGBA.	23:49
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DocScrutinizer	Battery endurance:: Battery BL-5J // Capacity (mAh) 1320 // Talk time Up to 9 h (GSM) Up to 5 h (WCDMA) // Stand-by Up to 10 days GSM Up to 10 days WCDMA	23:50
frals	Shapeshifter: im not using any IM accounts, guess that why mine lasts me 2 days when "using" it	23:50
Shapeshifter	9h talk time >.>	23:50
javispedro	I can believe 9h talk time	23:50
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Shapeshifter	frals: maybe, as it will be almost completely idle when you're not having the screen open	23:50
frals	ie browsing, always synced with mfe on day time	23:50
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Shapeshifter	frals: 3G?	23:50
frals	yeah	23:51
frals	3/3.5	23:51
N900evil	t-tan: lcd doesn't use that much - backlight at high brightness is lots more	23:51
Shapeshifter	frals: you're not using it... ^^	23:51
Gh0sty	any app which switches automatically between 2g and 3g	23:51
frals	or well, the second evening i plug it in	23:51
Gh0sty	or any app which switches off automatically wifi when not used?	23:51
frals	Shapeshifter: i only use it while on the move, when im stationary i got my laptop ;)	23:51
t-tan	N900evil: I meant the backlight	23:52
Shapeshifter	frals: sure. but if I enable 3G battery life drops significantly. I'm practially stuck with 2G just because of battery life	23:52
javispedro	Shapeshifter: ditch GSM and use Wi-Fi, and your browsing figures will be in half-days instead of hours.	23:52
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frals	Shapeshifter: :<	23:52
* noobmonk3y is backing up frals and fmms again............ in tmo...... i just dont get why other people can't read........		23:53
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* javispedro can easily get 6-7 hours of browsing Wi-fi out of it, which is around n8x0 figures. First test I did... counting number of boring lectures ;P		23:53
Shapeshifter	javispedro: at the university I only have wifi with VPN, and for some reason that is extremely unstable on the n900, unusable really. I connect to wlan, then use vpnc. I can browse for 2 minutes, then the wlan loses connection and then reconnects, but then I need to kill vpnc and rerun it.	23:53
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frals	noobmonk3y: cheers - i cant be bothered much anymore	23:53
noobmonk3y	hehe, with them, not fmms i hope ;)	23:53
t-tan	current with screen locked ca. 360, with 4/5: 1000, with 5/5: 1350	23:54
frals	noobmonk3y: yes, with users, fmms i still have some things to be fixed in	23:54
Shapeshifter	if wlan + vpn was stable, it would be another story, but it's unusable.	23:54
noobmonk3y	hehe ;)	23:54
frals	glances at teh ever-growing to do list	23:54
Shapeshifter	rockstable on my laptop btw.	23:54
Shapeshifter	using vpnc as well.	23:54
heffer	apt-get autoremove would remove kernel-maemo and kernel-modules-maemo. does this sound like a good idea?	23:54
*** davyg has quit IRC		23:54
_henke_	heffer no :-)	23:55
t-tan	heffer: if you have kernel-power-flasher installed, it's fine	23:55
* DocScrutinizer gets really bored by all this "eeew my 600MHz CPU eats more power than my wristwatch! And why can't I TX data over GSM @ 2W TX power - with a battery load of not more than 200mW??" whining		23:55
heffer	i knew it :)	23:55
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC		23:55
heffer	i have kernel-flasher-maemo	23:55
heffer	but i purged that because i don't use it anymore	23:55
heffer	is it okay to do so?	23:55
* noobmonk3y looks at healthcheck...oh how i like the simple life ;)		23:55
javispedro	Shapeshifter: so, get your uni to change. I did that on mine when they were using expired certificates 5 years ago...	23:55
t-tan	did you reflash the stock kernel?	23:56
* lcuk swaps with noobmonk3y for a day		23:56
heffer	yes i did	23:56
* lcuk has been checking health of things all day		23:56
Shapeshifter	javispedro: sorry? It _does_ work flawlessly on my linux lap top with the same AP and same distance. just the n900 loses the connection after 2 minutes.	23:56
heffer	as it is described in the package description	23:56
t-tan	check with uname -a	23:56
heffer	my uname -a is: Linux Nokia-N900-51-1 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Thu Dec 17 09:40:52 EET 2009 armv7l unknown	23:56
t-tan	ok, remove it	23:57
heffer	great. thanks	23:57
* lcuk kicks mail client on ubumtu		23:57
javispedro	Shapeshifter: you're talking with a person that: a) When the Palm T\|X didn't work with his uni's certificates he fixed his uni b) When the N810 didn't work with his Uni's PAP he fixed the N8x0 in what later took Nokia a year and a half (and still counting) to fix it.	23:58
javispedro	Wi-Fi _is_ this thing.	23:58
heffer	thanks for your help guys. it's much appreciated!	23:58
trem	nite all, sweet dreams	23:58
*** trem has quit IRC		23:58
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: but really, I don't think I'm expecting too much of a mobile device. 2h of 3G surfing, all day IM online and regular mail checking should be possible. If this, by design, is impossible, they pretty much failed at reaching a sane target. For all I care they should have stuck a fatter battery in it. clearly. ;)	23:58
* frals kicks lcuks ubumty		23:59
* frals kicks lcuks ubumtu*		23:59
* javispedro passes a fedora livecd to lcuk		23:59
* lcuk flashes frals machines		23:59

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