IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-04-13

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MohammadAGE0x, out of space :)00:01
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E0xMohammadAG: oh heh00:02
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* V13 is tempted to start a thread "speculation about the next tablet (N910) and its release date"00:05
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rm_youanyone know if there is a more up to date version of something like MaemoVMWare somewhere? the one on garage says it is the final release of 1.0 but only has Maemo5 SDK Beta 200:07
inzV13, with clearly photoshopped "leaked" images?00:07
V13inz.. no... just some fud :)00:07
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rm_yousince I still don't have my replacement n900 but am getting impatient, i want to start my project now on the VM :P00:07
MohammadAGV13, I'll come over and kill you :P00:07
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V13rm_you there is latest SDK which is not beta.00:08
rm_youSo is there a VMWare image that includes that? or is MaemoVMWare on garage the best I can do?00:08
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V13this one i'm using and it is *not* beta.00:08
rm_youit says it is, odd00:08
V13it is the final which can then be upgraded...00:09
V13"Maemo SDK Virtual Images, 1.0 final"00:09
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rm_youbut the changelog says it includes Beta 200:09
V13Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Final.7z - 1693332116 - ut-of-box ready Maemo Final Fremantle 5.0 and Diablo 4.1.2 SDK and Eclipse IDE Virtual Image with Ubuntu Intrepid 8.10 Desktop (7-zip compressed)00:09
rm_youalright yeah, the downloads agreement says that, i see now00:10
rm_youthey must just need to update the site00:10
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V13ok... this 1.7GHz may be fake00:20
V13a) it has an alarm set00:20
V13b) it has 20h uptime00:20
V13c) the fan seems still00:20
V13d) the pwm connector of the fun seems to be not connected and instead just sit under n90000:20
MohammadAGit is fake00:20
SpeedEvil1 it is fake00:21
javispedro  it is fake00:21
MohammadAGdon't bother00:21
MohammadAGhe said it's fake00:21
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* Shapeshifter is startled that there's no #maemo-offtopic00:21
Shapeshifterwhere does all the silly talk go to? (t.m.o.? :P)00:21
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dubziiV13 check this one out xD
V13lol :)))00:22
javispedrof.m.o ate my post!00:22
javispedroer.. f.m.c00:22
* dottedmag .oO(f.m.l.)00:23 you pervert00:23
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V13so.. talk was replaced with forum, maemo with meego and org with com...00:24
V13what all these say ?00:24
tripzero7700MHz eh?00:25
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V13MohammadAG, SpeedEvil1, javispedro: looking at your "it is fake" words... you would make a good triplet... for singing...00:26
javispedrono, you should join and make it a quartet00:27
* Shapeshifter just overclocked his n900 to 1.21jiggowatts00:27
V13ok.. we need another one and go play basket...00:27
* Shapeshifter also watched all three back to the future parts today00:27
tripzerolol, nice00:27
V13killed a vampire00:28
V13shoot an alien00:28
V13brought peace...00:28
tremnite all, sweet dreams00:28
V13cured cancer00:29
V13cured aids00:29
pupnik_quartet would be a fun multiplayer to recreate00:29
V13invented time travel00:29
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MohammadAG :)00:44
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* javispedro notes Xarchiver00:46
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MohammadAGjavispedro, Xarchiver?00:47
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javispedrothe one that was available for diablo00:47
MohammadAGnever seen it00:49
javispedrowell, it was the _only_ one.... :P00:49
V13[not so] hype: Based on this: don't you assume that pr1.2 will support live wallpapers?00:50
MohammadAGV13, it's already working...00:50
V13ok .. the bug clears it:  Yes, this live homescreen will 'fix' this bug. Will be available in pr1.2.00:50
V13MohammadAG: with xcompmgr ?00:51
MohammadAGnot sure00:51
MohammadAGV13, install my package and see for your self :)00:51
MohammadAG(it will be broken for blurred backgrounds, but it works)00:52
V13i'll wait :)00:52
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Treibholzhmm, any idea how to tickle the calendar-widget to reload the calendardb?00:58
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javispedroV13: afaik, it's hildon-desktop specific, custom protocol. not using xcompmgr01:06
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JakubSis there widget/application to show network throughput as graph?01:10
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JakubSfor example line chart with upload and download updated every x seconds01:11
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jacekowskioO01:13 is in black and white01:13
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MohammadAGfile-roller packaged :)01:16
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w00t_any facebrick users: take a look at please :)01:48
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GAN900lol, forces the iPad to to mobile version01:55
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* Treibholz hasn't experienced any website, that forced me to the mobile version01:57
Treibholzwith the n90001:57
lcukw00t_, just put the damned poll somewhere in the app itself ;)01:58
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greenflyw00t_: couldn't the sorting for the messages be a configurable option?01:58
lcukthere is no right or wrong ordering, merely what people feel is right01:58
lcukmake the app configurable and the problem is gone01:58
w00t_'make it an option' is always an option, but the value of sensible defaults is something which is often not considered02:00
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crashanddieyo bitches02:00
w00t_a keyboard that defaults to dvorak with an option to go to qwerty will probably have a higher number of frustrated users by default (even if it does have a niche appeal)02:00
lcukyou are scary02:00
lcukw00t_ :) see my post02:01
w00t_lcuk: we are on the same wavelength as ever02:01
* lcuk smiles02:01
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w00t_btw I do have some limited ideas about in-application polling.. we'll see02:01
w00t_(if this works, I plan on doing it more often)02:02
lcukpolling hte server?02:02
pupnikdvorak = placebo02:02
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lcukdoes the website poll, or use ajax02:02
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kevloralhello all02:08
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crashanddielcuk: what's the difference between polling and ajax?02:19
lardmannight all!02:21
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GAN900What happened to fiasco-flasher?02:22
lcukajax holds a connection doesnt it02:24
MohammadAG_GAN900, it's there for some users02:24
MohammadAG_not me though02:25
GAN900Nor me02:25
GAN900What the hell02:25
GAN900flasher's there02:25
GAN900"Suitable USB device not found"02:25
GAN900The whole regional firmware thing is really irritating.02:25
MohammadAG_use fiasco-image-update02:25
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crashanddielcuk: nope02:29
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crashanddielcuk: ajax simply means that the webpage (or underlying code) talks to the webserver after the initial page load02:30
lcukso, it polls?02:30
crashanddieasynchronous javascript and xml02:30
crashanddiedoesn't matter whether it polls or not02:30
crashanddiecould do either, still be java02:31
lcukor it has a connection which waits for stuff to pop out02:31
lcukit matters02:31
lcukbecause polling == bad02:31
infobotcrashanddie meant: could do either, still be ajax02:31
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crashanddielcuk: usually a well-designed ajax app would only request info from the server upon user events02:31
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crashanddiebut again, it can be polling if required, or continuous. is a continuous connection, uses polling and user-generated events02:34
lcukyou sure it polls?  it sits with a connection most of the time02:35
crashanddienha, if you shut down google chat there shouldn't be a connection02:35
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crashanddiethough it's been a while since I looked into it, so they may have changed the rules02:37
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lcukhow often do you poll!02:38
pupnikregularly. with metamucil02:39
lcukevery second would cause meltdown every minute would be too slow for people02:39
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MohammadAG_wow I hit upload and got disconnected here02:44
TomaszDwell let that be a lesson to you02:46
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* MohammadAG_ gives it another go02:49
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MohammadAG_~curse autobuilder02:52
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, autobuilder !02:52
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Only-OneHi friends, I invite you to a new network of mIRC, /s -m [join #CService for HELP]02:58
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haltdefoh god02:58
* MohammadAG_ wonders why they don't just gline bots02:59
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pupnikwonderful to see such nice emus lately03:00
MohammadAGindeed :)03:01
* MohammadAG gives the autobuilder another chance03:01
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MohammadAGdoes anyone know what the autobuilder is running on?03:03
MohammadAGit seems to be a bit slow.03:04
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* MohammadAG failed, once again03:06
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MohammadAG# [extras-builds] [fremantle]: file-roller 2.24.3-1maemo1 FAILED   Maemo Extras Builder  :(03:07
jacekowskiwhat would be the best approach to disabling noexec on mmc?03:09
jacekowskiif i would just remount it manualy03:10
jacekowskiis there something watching it and making sure that it's mounted with noexec?03:10
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MohammadAGnot that I know of03:10
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MohammadAGjust edited the file that generates fstab at startup03:11
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dmj726_n900my scratchbox won't update.  Is this a 1.2 issue?03:14
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MohammadAGThe 1.2 scratchbox was released last month, so it won't have issues03:15
MohammadAGfile-roller built in the autobuilder03:16
crashanddielcuk: 3 minutes is enough for most people03:16
dmj726_n900...this is a pre 1.2 scratchbox...updates should just work03:16
crashanddielcuk: for email anyway, you can go up to 5 minutes03:16
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lcukcrashanddie, many ajax systems update in realtime03:19
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crashanddielcuk: sure you can have a low-resource pipe that serves as an event trigger (basically poor-man's push)03:20
crashanddieThough that requires specific software that most webhosts wouldn't allow03:20
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MohammadAGerrordeveloper, any tmo mods here?03:22
crashanddieMohammadAG: just submit a report03:22
MohammadAGcrashanddie, I just want the title for my thread to be changed03:22
crashanddiesubmit a report03:22
MohammadAGwouldn't a report just waste their time?03:22
crashanddieYou'd be amazed at the stupid reports we get03:23
MohammadAGlol I'm a mod on another site, but we don't get stupid reports03:23
MohammadAG(a lot) :P03:23
MohammadAGhey DocScrutinizer03:23
crashanddieMohammadAG: do you have as many visitors as TMO?03:23
MohammadAGcrashanddie, well no, but most of the users on TMO just troll :/03:24
DocScrutinizerwell, actually most of them probably don't even recognize they are trolling03:25
MohammadAGlol good point03:25
crashanddie"Off Topic lacks a controversial thread"03:26
crashanddiefuck that03:26
MohammadAGcrashanddie, and I'm assuming a user starts spamming you by PM if you give them an infraction?03:27
crashanddie"Nokia shoukd consider this design" <-- controversial; "Getting Around the GPL" <-- controversial; "Whatever Apple touch, it turns gold" <-- controversial; "A little something for Apple haters." <-- controversial... do I need to continue?03:27
DocScrutinizera big fat BOLD 47pt warning with a link to for sure wouldn't hurt03:27
MohammadAGcrashanddie, no you don't lol03:27
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MohammadAGdoes Nokia even read tmo?03:28
crashanddieMohammadAG: yes, and I quit moderation for that reason03:28
* MohammadAG really really doubts that03:28
crashanddieMohammadAG: I think the only one who endures it is Quim03:28
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MohammadAGwell I turned off Private messaging for my account once03:29
MohammadAGdidn't have the time to argue so I replied and turned it off03:29
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, who's Quim? can't seem to find him on tmo03:30
MohammadAGhe's a mod?03:30
MohammadAGit doesn't say that under his nick for some reason...03:31
crashanddieNo, he resigned from moderation as well03:31
DocScrutinizerhe's nokianized03:31
crashanddiebecause people were saying it was a conspiracy and conflict of interest for him to be a moderator as he is a nokia employee03:31
MohammadAGtwo mods resigned?03:31
crashanddiewankers if you ask me, the guy has the patience of a holy person03:32
crashanddieMohammadAG: feel free to offer your services as a mod03:32
crashanddieMohammadAG: we need more mods03:32
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: wtf, this can't be true. Conflict of Interests when a Nokia employee is moderating a Nokia forum?03:32
MohammadAGerrordeveloper, you don't make it sound as a good thing :p03:32
crashanddieMohammadAG: though if you don't feel like taking the abuse, I suggest you start a discussion to setup clear rules around moderation tasks03:33
* DocScrutinizer checks his ignorelist...03:33
crashanddieMohammadAG: it would be good if moderators knew what foot they can stand on. At the moment it's free for all, we just dump most of the things we do in a specific moderator forum (OMFG, THE MODS HAVE A PRIVATE FORUM, CONSPIRACYYYY) in order to cover our asses03:34
MohammadAGcrashanddie, why don't you have a moderators channel?03:35
crashanddiebecause we're in too different timezones, wouldn't help03:35
dmj726_n900moderating can be hard, especially in a high noise forum like tmo.03:35
MohammadAGI barely use the mods section on the site I moderate03:35
crashanddieI'm the only mod in Asia/Pacific, we have a couple of mods in the US, and a couple in Europe (or maybe a handful in Europe)03:36
crashanddieplus the council has the right to see/post in the mod forum so that they can see what's happening03:36
dmj726_n900so many threads about apple crud that it's a bit hard to the the awesome threads about development.03:36
MohammadAGand one from russia03:36
MohammadAGlooking @
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crashanddieMohammadAG: so really, the mod channel would only be for specific people, plus, texrat and qole never come to IRC, etc03:37
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, why does the site have only 2 super moderators?03:38
crashanddiebecause supermod is a tough position03:38
crashanddieIt's better to have someone focus on 2 or 3 forums than be all over the place03:38
crashanddieusually people have an interest in only one or two forums anyway03:39
crashanddie(applications, n800, community, etc)03:39
crashanddieI seem to remember that mods can become supermods after they reach 500 posts03:39
crashanddiebut that may have changed03:39
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DocScrutinizerthat sounds like a great idea anyway, to elect those with many posts for mods :-P03:40
dmj726_n900grr...broken scratchbox03:41
* GeneralAntilles is out for SF.03:41
MohammadAGSymbian Freak? :P03:41
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GeneralAntillesLinux Foundation Collaboration Summit03:41
DocScrutinizersourceforge, sience fiction?03:41
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: have fun, enjoy!03:42
ds3have fun, and bring a raincoat03:42
MohammadAGcrashanddie, PM'd you the rules I agreed to03:42
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: no, moderators who get to 500 posts become supermods03:42
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: not regular users03:42
MohammadAGnot sure if you had to do the same when you got the mods position03:42
crashanddiethough those rules are pretty laughable, and quite standard bullshit you get on low-end think-you-re-though-forums03:43
crashanddieno offense03:43
GeneralAntillesds3, lot colder than it is here at the moment. :(03:43
MohammadAGnone taken :)03:43
crashanddieMohammadAG: if you want to become a moderator on TMO, you just post to the moderator thread, or send a PM to Reggie. He looks at your previous posts, and if you're not a troll and seemingly helpful, you get the rights03:43
ds3GA: where is here?03:44
MohammadAGnot sure about it03:44
GeneralAntillesds3, Florida03:44
MohammadAGtwo mods resigned, it doesn't sound like a good position03:44
crashanddieMohammadAG: the paragraph about "proper English" is really laughable in that list, considering that there's spelling mistakes all over the paragraph :P03:44
ds3GA: yes, indeed... probally even wetter03:44
MohammadAGand I don't give a **** about the forum title, I don't moderate so that I can have the power to do it03:44
MohammadAGcrashanddie, I never read the whole thing anyways :P03:45
MohammadAGI just followed what the other mods did03:45
crashanddiemy point exactly03:45
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MohammadAGbut it works well03:45
MohammadAGwe never have arguments03:45
crashanddieWhat TMO needs is rulebook, not a "Thou shalt not abuseth thy powerz"03:45
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MohammadAGtmo needs a database nuke tbh :)03:46
crashanddieMohammadAG: the disciplinary actions section is excellent though, that's really what we need03:46
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crashanddieMohammadAG: tailor that for TMO, and submit it for review in Community03:48
crashanddieMohammadAG: I'm serious, you'd be doing the mods a huge favour03:48
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, will do :)03:49
MohammadAGfile-roller archive manager now in extras-devel :)03:50
dmj726_n900MohammadAG: great!03:50
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MohammadAGI seriously can't believe how stupid the app manager icon thing can be03:56
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MohammadAGI'm not manually adding a space 400 times03:56
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MohammadAG"Add a space in front of every line of the encoded icon "03:57
MohammadAGsurely there's an easier way to do it...03:57
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timeless_mbpMohammadAG: perl is your friend03:58
MohammadAGtimeless_mbp, what if I don't know perl lol03:58
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pupnikanybody here try the lenovo x100e?04:00
MohammadAG400 lines04:02
* MohammadAG likes his coordination :)04:02
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: cat myfile|sed 's/^/ /' >myfile_edited04:06
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rm_youanyone worked any further on barcode libs for n900?04:09
MohammadAGthanks DocScrutinizer, already done it manually though (no really), next time :)04:09
rm_youAm looking at utilizing them soon04:09
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tgalalhow do we write a gtk app to run in portrait by default ?04:16
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dmj726_n900clutter-box2d is cool04:20
MohammadAGwhat's that?04:20
pupnikdo box2d sprites draw with opengl es?04:21
dmj726_n900it's clutter plus a physics engine.04:22
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dmj726_n900clutter-box2d doesn't work properly in scratchbox though04:43
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rm_yougrrr internet04:51
MohammadAGit's 8 mins till 5 AM, and I'm fixing a package...04:52
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MohammadAGfixed some bugs in archive manager04:58
MohammadAGif you can call them bugs...04:58
MohammadAGnight :)04:58
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bullet`hello all05:25
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crashanddiehey bullet`05:27
bullet`how is it going crashanddie ... any interesting news about maemo?05:28
crashanddiebullet`: www.mwkn.net05:28
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bullet`hey u know james ghosling left oracle ..  muat have been a sad time for him ..05:28
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crashanddiebullet`: not necessarily05:40
crashanddiebullet`: I'm surprised he stayed in the first place to be honest. Anyone believing that Oracle wouldn't fundamentally change Sun was naive...05:41
crashanddiebullet`: if only he could write a new language that we could specialise in for the next 15 years ;)05:42
bullet`still he did so much for the company, all his lifes work, and day u have to leave ..05:42
crashanddiebullet`: leaving is a good thing05:42
crashanddiebullet`: the best people change companies every 4-5 years05:43
crashanddieI would say 3 years is the average for excellent people who add a lot to a company05:43
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bullet`well, i know for myself, what u said is true, but i cannot imagine how does it feel to the person who contributes to the level which he did ..05:45
bullet`doesnt it become kind of a home to u at that level of contribution ..05:45
bullet`leaving in 3 years05:46
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crashanddiespell out your words lol... you have a full keyboard05:46
crashanddieYeah, I guess that it becomes your baby after a while, so that's probably why he stayed with Sun for so long, no doubt. But that's more the exception than the rule05:47
crashanddiePlus, having new blood can only be beneficial to Java -- Java isn't looking too good lately05:47
bullet`sorry for the short letters i write for words .. these r the manners that ppl keep on reminding me .. will have to get used to it ..05:48
crashanddieno, I won't05:48
crashanddiewrite fully or don't05:48
bullet`i cant05:49
bullet`i will try thats all i can say05:49
crashanddiethanks, much appreciated05:49
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slingris there an official launch date for pr1.2?05:52
bullet`whats the used of this ping crashanddie ?05:52
crashanddieto see how long it takes for my messages to reach the server and back05:53
slingri have been out of the maemo scene for awhile.  is there a n average wait time from when the sdk is released to when end users see a firmware update usually? couple months maybe?05:53
crashanddieslingr: usually a lot shorter than that05:53
crashanddieslingr: not that I paid particular attention, but I don't remember the SDK being out a long time before the public release05:53
slingrawesome.  i'm very excited :)05:53
bullet`good good05:53
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crashanddieslingr: that's why a lot of people are crying wolf every 20 minutes, but really it could be today as much as it could be 2 weeks from now -- nobody knows.05:54
bullet`crashanddie, what OS do u primarily use ?05:54
crashanddieOSX at home, Windows at work (desktop), zLinux (mainframe)  and Solaris as dev environments05:54
bullet`and you do maemo development right ?05:55
crashanddienot in my day job05:55
crashanddiewould love to though -- if anyone has a job ;)05:55
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bullet`but do u do maemo development on linux as well as mac ?05:56
crashanddiebullet`: depends the language used05:57
crashanddiebullet`: when it's compiled language, I use a Linux VM on the Mac, when it's an interpreted language I use the Mac directly.05:57
bullet`i want to know, if one is doing maemo development, how different is the experience if he keeps shifting linux and mac. What i assume is it should be pretty similar since the qt creator and al the tools seems similar on all platforms05:58
crashanddiewell, if you use Qt with an interpreted language (PyQt or PySide), it's fairly easy.05:58
crashanddieyou can easily develop your app on any platform, and then there's a minimal effort to port it (as long as the app doesn't use platform-specific features, gps or such)05:59
crashanddieIf however you're writing C/C++ apps, I would recommend working on Linux with scratchbox, you depend on so many specific libraries and platform-specifics that the porting effort would be mad and no provide anything good.06:00
bullet`and what about c++, if all the qt stuff is used and its left to qt how it uses the platform underneath, is that even possible ..06:00
bullet`how much of a % of that coudl be done06:00
luke-jrcrashanddie: huh? C is C06:01
crashanddiewell, a big percentage, but you still need to compile it anyway06:01
luke-jrC doesn't require porting :D06:01
bullet`oh, while talking to you i myself forgot i was asking questions related to develping for maemo, not other platforms (mac/win/nix)06:01
luke-jrif you write it in pure Qt, you should be good too06:01
crashanddieluke-jr: true, but I'm talking about the platform behaviour, such as threading, IPC, and such which differ slightly, don't they?06:02
luke-jrbullet`: programs should not be developed *for* a specific platform06:02
luke-jrbullet`: they should be platform-independent and run anywhere you compile them06:02
bullet`so i guess if u r going to be developing for maemo in qt, regardless of nix/win/mac, its should be a similar experience. Liek save the project at one place in nix, open it in mac or windows, build for mameo and deploy ?06:02
crashanddieluke-jr: also, window behaviour would be quite different, and would need to be adapted quite significantly06:02
luke-jrcrashanddie: C doesn't define threading/IPC06:02
crashanddieluke-jr: no, but the platforms libs do06:02
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crashanddieluke-jr: I'm not familiar with it, but pretty sure they're seriously different on mac/linux06:03
luke-jrhence the qualifier 'pure' on C :)06:03
bullet`c doesnt define a lot as far as i have read on the internet06:03
bullet`threading being one of it06:03
dmj726_n900programs should try to be cross platform, but there are cases where they would be silly.06:03
crashanddieluke-jr~= +5 pedantic06:03
luke-jrthreading isn't usually necessary06:03
dmj726_n900like a gps app on my desktop.06:03
luke-jrdmj726_n900: there's no reason to be platform-dependent in a Qt app06:03
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bullet`u r saying htat in the age where now we have like 8 or 12 cores on one desktop machine ?06:04
luke-jrhow often do you have a single process running? ;p06:04
bullet`but i get it for maemo though06:04
luke-jrin any case, I don't have a single multi-core system06:04
crashanddiebullet`: he's poor and angry, don't mind him :P06:05
luke-jrI don't need one either :)06:05
luke-jrmy Athlon64 3200+ keeps up06:05
crashanddiehe's still thinking of C-89, monolithic kernels and code organised through #ifdef06:05
luke-jrI don't know C < 9906:05
crashanddiecue: "Get off my lawn"06:05
luke-jralso, Linux is monolithic06:06
dmj726_n900what about a qt interface to manage ext filesystems?06:06
luke-jrdmj726_n900: no reason that needs to be platform dependent :P06:06
crashanddieabstraction creates overhead06:06
dmj726_n900or something similarly linux specific.06:06
crashanddieuseless abstraction creates stupid programs06:07
luke-jrext isn't Linux specific06:07
luke-jryou can use it on Windows ;)06:07
luke-jrafaik Android supports ext still06:07
crashanddieand for all intents and purposes, Android is Linux06:07
dmj726_n900that said, I'm not suggesting actively making anything platfom specific, just where it makes sense to enssure it vs not worry about it.06:07
luke-jrcrashanddie: didn't they make the fork official?06:07
dmj726_n900no, android just doesn't have a gnu userland06:08
bullet`android is not linux i heard06:08
crashanddiewell, running off Linux, it's a VM that could run on anything, but the day they separate the VM from the baselayer, all those specifics will fly out of the window, and you can be sure ext will go too.06:08
luke-jrcrashanddie: no, I mean literally...06:08
bullet`i mean it does use the kernel, but i heard a lot of imp stuff is missing which make the porting apps diff to android06:08
dmj726_n900android is a linux kernal and a java vm.06:08
bullet`unlike maemo06:08
luke-jrbullet`: that's unrelated; Android isn't X1106:09
dmj726_n900maemo has a gnu debian userland06:09
crashanddieanyway, useless thread06:09
timeless_mbpdmj726_n900: err06:09
luke-jrAndroid included a fork of Linux06:09
timeless_mbpbusybox is hardly debian userland06:09
luke-jrGoogle doesn't want to merge to mainline; mainline doesn't want Google's stuff06:09
luke-jrlast I heard they officially split ways06:09
bullet`i dont know official or intentionaly, but they couldnt maintain stuff in the kernel, and kernel devs removed their contributions .. what i read in the greg's blog (i think thats his name)06:10
luke-jrGoogle reinvented some Linux feature as "wakelocks" and mainline doesn't want the duplicate functionality06:11
dmj726_n900I think the split was that the most recent kernel wasn't compatible, and didn't have android changes, not any real "we're forking" thing.06:11
luke-jrall drivers are affected by it06:11
crashanddiewow, "greg's blog" that's going to be easy to find ;)06:11
bullet`greg kroah06:11
luke-jrLinux Monkey something06:11
bullet`that kernel maintainer !!06:11
luke-jrLinux Kernel Monkey Log06:11
bullet`yea that one :)06:12
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: really hard… i'm feeling lucky ^06:12
dmj726_n900ext4 is not functional at all on windows06:12
luke-jrext4 is useless imo06:12
luke-jrext3 does everything I need fine06:12
bullet`this is the post06:12
luke-jrexcept SD stuff06:12
bullet`wrong one06:13
luke-jrbut ext4 doesn't improve that06:13
dmj726_n900...and the other exts are only kindof there06:13
dmj726_n900that's why I have so many ntfs partitions06:13
dmj726_n900give me a real file system over ntfs any day.06:14
bullet`anyone knows whats up with the next version of c++ .. tey were calling it .. c zero or something ?06:14
crashanddietimeless_mbp: I'm not lucky :P06:14
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luke-jrbullet`: it *was* called "C++ 0x" for development06:14
luke-jrassuming it was going to become "C++ 09" or such (year)06:14
luke-jrbut probably will be C++ 2010 or so now06:15
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crashanddieI love how they said C++0x was "Almost going to be 100% compatible with old C++"06:16
crashanddieSo... 99%?06:17
crashanddieWhat's "Almost 100%"06:17
godrikguys I got a problem with maemo mapper06:17
godrikit seems that the maps I got from open street map are off06:17
crashanddieluke-jr: "Everything is compatible, except for one thing, one character. Semicolon"06:17
godrikI mean that the track I got from my gps do not correspond to the right street at all06:18
crashanddiegodrik: define:"at all"06:18
godrikI uploaded the tracks to osm to check them and they were fine there06:18
crashanddiegodrik: 10m difference, or 20km?06:18
godrikcrashanddie: 6Km06:18
godrikperhaps 1006:18
crashanddiesounds like your maps are diff'd06:19
crashanddiehave you tried turning it off and on again?06:19
crashanddieI mean, download again?06:19
godrikI mv-ed the database file and got the same problem06:19
godrikI am checking using an other source (google street) at the moment06:19
crashanddieluke-jr: std::vector<T>&& woop dee fucking woop06:20
godrikthe version of meamo mapper is 2.6.206:21
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godrikare all the data of maemo mapper stored in ~/MyDocs/.documents/Maps ?07:03
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godrikwhere does maemo mapper store its information ?07:16
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godrikI tried to erase both ~/.maemo-mapper and ~/MyDocs/.documents/Maps07:16
godrikbut MM still remembers thing07:16
godrikI would like to completly flush MM data.07:16
godrikany idea ?07:16
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mrlanrathello everyone!07:29
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mrlanratI was just wondering, how do i get the album art to show in the default diablo media player (it showes up just fine in canola and other media players) The artwork is in the id3 tag.07:30
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ptlHow do I simulate the "power" button inside scratchbox?07:42
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crashanddie"Steve Jobs confirms original iPhone won't run iPhone OS 4.0"07:51
crashanddieTake that bitcheees07:52
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crashanddie(aimed at all the whiners crying about N900 not officially supporting MeeGo)07:52
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bullet`it was in the news .. i think it 'll run for 3gs?07:54
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crashanddiewell, there's the iPhone, iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS07:55
crashanddieso we can safely assume that the iPhone 3G and 3GS versions will support OS407:56
bullet`for the 3g, isnt it going to be very slow ? 3gs wud be the only one that 'll run it good07:57
crashanddieNot necessarily07:57
bullet`i hear 3gs is like 2.5x faster than 3g07:57
crashanddieSpeed has rarely something to do with it, more like the actual chipset drivers or functionalities are used a bit too much for it to be compatible with the original iPhone07:57
bullet`so since the multitasking in there now, they need a better hardware, atleast like 3gs07:57
crashanddie(digital compass etc)07:58
dmj726_n900where did you hear it wouldn't be supported?07:58
crashanddieJobs responded to a customer e-mail asking if the new operating system would support the original iPhone, according to Mac  enthusiast site MacStories. In his typical succinct style, Jobs said:  "Sorry, no. Sent from my iPhone"07:59
Stskeepswell, android is doing same these days08:00
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dmj726_n900the aritcle seems a bit confused as to whether it's just the multitasking or 4.0 in general that isn't supported.08:01
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ptlwhat about the power button in scratchbox? Noone knows?08:05
mrlanrator does anyone know how to make the album art work in diablo?08:06
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crashanddiemrlanrat: not supported AFAIK08:08
crashanddiemrlanrat: only .jpg files can be used for Album Art in diablo08:08
mrlanratso you need to have the artwork as a separate file?08:08
mrlanratugh, i just put my n810 into an infinite reboot.08:11
mrlanrattime to reflash again.......08:11
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mrlanratunless anyone knows how to fix hildon desktop08:11
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ptlyou should have previously installed bootmenu08:14
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mrlanrati think i will next time08:15
mrlanratbut can bootmenu alone help?08:15
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mrlanratdoes bootmenu come with a shell?08:15
mrlanratall i need to do is edit a config file, can that be done over usb?08:15
Stskeepson usb yes08:15
Stskeepsbut you should have installed bootmenu in advance08:15
mrlanratyou can telnet over usb????08:16
luke-jrit's a network connection08:16
mrlanrato, so bootmenu can allow the n810 to act as a network card?08:16
luke-jrminus the card ...08:17
mrlanratgood to know08:17
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mrlanratis there anything i can do without bootmenu installed?08:17
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luke-jrbut not simple enough to hold your hand through08:17
luke-jrflasher can boot a custom kernel w/o flashing it08:17
luke-jrcould build one that has fbcon and execs /bin/sh08:18
mrlanrathmm, are there any kernels that i could use that are pre-built? (so that I don't need to compile my own)08:19
luke-jrslonopotamus: ... wtf do I care?08:20
slonopotamusluke-jr: it's just funny :)08:20
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Triztmrlanrat; I think there is one in the testing repo08:21
mrlanratwhere/how do i get it?08:21
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mrlanratThanks trizt, ill look into it08:28
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crashanddieHaha, Microsoft's phone attempts is ridiculous09:17
crashanddie(re the Kin and Kin Two)09:17
crashanddieNo SDK, no App Store, no pricing, and only 8GB of storage with no uSD09:18
bullet`microsoft is so pathetic !!!09:19
bullet`sorry i had to just say that !09:19
bullet`only they do good is directx and xbox i guess ;P09:19
bullet`only thing*09:19
MiXu-And Windows 709:19
crashanddieerhm, directx sucks donkey balls09:19
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crashanddiethe xbox is ok, but the model is wrong09:20
bullet`it maybe from the programming point of view ..09:20
crashanddiepaying for playing on the interwebs? When I'm hosting the server and paying for all the bandwidth? Thank you very much, bastards09:20
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bullet`i dotn know about windows 7 ... although i hv been using it since some time now09:21
crashanddiemorning lardman09:21
lardmanmorning crashanddie09:21
Stskeepswoo, 3333 thanks on tmo09:21
crashanddieStskeeps: you the devil's cousin?09:21
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Stskeepsclose enough09:21
crashanddietwice removed09:21
crashanddieStskeeps: how many posts?09:22
lardmanI had a uid of 666 at a company I was working for09:22
* crashanddie looks for one of Stskeeps' posts to ruin his magical number09:22
crashanddieStskeeps: nice ratio!09:22
Stskeepsso i was thanked on average 3.79 times per post :P09:22
crashanddieI'm only at 1.52 :(09:23
lardmanare we looking at new karma metrics?09:23
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Stskeepsi wouldn't mind thanks:posts as a metric for signal vs noise09:23
* bullet` nods09:24
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crashanddieStskeeps: why can't I find any of yours posts ffs09:24
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fralsthe problem is when you give endusers who refuse to read support on your application, and they refuse to thank you... good way to decrease thanks:posts ratio :p09:24
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crashanddieStskeeps: 400 in one post?09:25
Stskeepsit was a good post09:25
crashanddienha, not exceptionally good09:26
crashanddieyou just posted in the right forum for the audience09:26
Stskeepsit did shut up people, at least for a little while09:26
crashanddiehad you posted it in Community (where it belongs), you would've been trolled to death09:27
lardmangood lord, that's a lot of thanks09:29
ptlis there ANY way of taking screenshots via command-line without using imagemagick or screenshot-tool ?09:29
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crashanddieptl: short answer or long answer?09:30
lardmanwasn't there a ctrl-shift-p (or similar) keypress to do that?09:30
ptlcrashanddie: longer is better09:30
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crashanddieptl: yes09:30
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ptlyes, there is09:30
ptlbut there is no dbus method or anything assigned to that, lardman09:30
ptlI want an automated way09:31
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lardmanI see09:31
crashanddieptl: the short answer was "no"09:31
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crashanddie(because "yes" is longer than "no")09:32
ptlso the long answer is yes?09:33
crashanddiedef longest_answer(first, second):09:33
crashanddie    if len(first) > len(second):09:33
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lardmanand what's the method is the next question ;)09:33
crashanddie        return first09:33
crashanddie    else:09:33
crashanddie        return second09:33
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ptlyes, so what is the method?09:34
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ptlpreferrably following the order "simple command-line" >> "shell script" >> "already installed x-window utility" >> "perl script" >> "python script" >> "external c program" (screenshot-tool, imagemagick's import)09:36
ptlthe >> are arbitrary symbols. They mean nothing in this context.09:37
ptlit's just an order of preference. :P09:37
lardmanptl: is screenshot-tool open source?09:37
lardmanpresumably one could hack it into something command line friendly09:37
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JaffaMorning, all09:40
Jaffalardman: osso-screenshot-tool still exists, doesn't it?09:40
lardmanmorning Jaffa09:40
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lardmanJaffa: dunno, never used it, was just suggesting somewhere for the OP to look09:41
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* noobmonk3y swears that some people on t.m.o. just love to be arrogant for the fun of being arrogant09:45
noobmonk3y~Seen Arif09:46
infobotarif <Arif@> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 52d 16h 10m 36s ago, saying: 'yeah it was sarcasm :('.09:46
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noobmonk3ylol i'm slow today09:46
noobmonk3y~Seen Arif_09:46
infobotarif_ <Arif@> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 9d 18h 51m 27s ago, saying: 'they're not exactly the same are they?'.09:46
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wiredhey guys09:47
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ptllardman: I was investigating the issue, sorry. Yes, it is open-source and I have seen the code and it's very very simple, couldn't be simplest. It just invokes a standard X API call to get the root screen, writes a png and that's it.09:49
ptllardman: but this is something that can be done from the shell09:50
noobmonk3yhi wired09:50
ptl~seen ptl_demands_PR1209:50
infobotptl_demands_pr12 <~patola@unaffiliated/ptl> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 3h 41m 20s ago, saying: ' if anyone is trying to test this bug :)'.09:50
crashanddieptl: that's based on the assumption that the display server is standard xorg09:50
crashanddieptl: the way I would do it, is find a way to call whatever calls ctrl shift p, and call that from your script09:51
ptlcrashanddie: sure, but that's the case with maemo, isn't it?09:51
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ptlthe code to whatever calls ctrl-shift-p... isn't that intermingled with the closed source components? it might be a bit difficult to get it, isn't it?09:52
ptlI tried to do dbus sniffing, didn't get anything09:52
wirednew kernel again =]09:52
ptlI even confused a thumbnailer service call to issuing the screenshot command09:52
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ptls/ to / with /09:53
infobotptl meant: I even confused a thumbnailer service call with issuing the screenshot command09:53
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ptlnot standard X API call09:56
ptlbut standard gtk API call09:56
ptlnamely, gdk_pixbuf_get_from_drawable09:56
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lardmanso what was the code that uses the X Windows calls?09:58
ptlthere's no such code. I confused. It uses gtk+10:01
ptlanyway, if you want such code (in C), xwd uses that and you can get the source10:02
lardmanno, I was wondering for you10:02
ptlI found two python examples, using QT and GTK+10:02
lardmancan you send keypresses to the window server then10:02
ptlkeypresses? I don't think this solution would be very reliable10:03
lardmanperhaps not, just a thought10:03
wiredthe latest titan kernel doesnt boot10:03
lardmanis that an overclocked one?10:03
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wiredor it didn't flash properly10:04
wiredlardman: not by default10:04
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lardmanwired: what's different about it then, other than the ability to change the overclocking?10:04
wiredlardman: lots of extra kernel modules10:04
wiredincluding nat10:04
wiredand ofcourse onthefly oc10:05
ptlthe python-gtk way worked10:06
lardmanptl: good good10:06
ptlI will add it to Phone control10:06
wiredi have a kernel image lying around somewhere...10:06
* wired looks for it10:06
lardmanptl: why does a phone control need screenshots?10:07
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ptllardman: I don't have the slightest idea, a friend of mine asked me to find out for him and I am curious enough that I tried.10:07
ptlactually "Phone control" means "device control"10:08
ptlthe page is misnamed10:08
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lardmanah ok10:09
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crashanddielardman sounds like the spanish inquisition10:10
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crashanddiewell, spanish as spoken by an english person, I guess10:11
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lardmanand on that note, /me gets ready to head to work, cu all later10:13
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wired... it wont boot anymore, yay10:14
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ab_crashanddie, do u use macbookpro ?10:15
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bullet`how much does it have ?10:16
bullet`wow .. thats a lot .. so the os is ofcourse 64 bits, do u run windows on a vm in it ?10:17
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crashanddieonly linux10:17
bullet`aha .. hw is the performance of linux on vm ?10:17
crashanddieand > 4GB doesn't require 64bit, you can have 32 bit and > 4GB10:18
crashanddieit's only that a single process will only be able to address 4GB10:18
bullet`aha . is that a feature for mac that even on 32 bits u can utilize more than 4gb?10:18
bullet`aha ok10:19
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meceWTF? Tweego is 15Mb? that's a lot.10:19
crashanddieNo, any OS can implement that, Linux does, so do some versions of Windows, dunno about Mac, I do have a 64bit OS10:19
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bullet`well i have been only familiar with gaming forums that the guys discuss their the gaming pcs they have (windows), they always have to select a 64 bit vista/win7 if they have 4 gb or above ram10:20
crashanddieyeah, because microsoft chose not to implement it10:20
lupine_85highmem is a bit poor, to be fair10:21
crashanddiebut windows server 2003 supports 8GB of RAM in 32bit mode10:21
crashanddieLinux supports 64GB in 32bit mode10:21
bullet`so how is the performance of linux in the vm on your mbp?10:21
crashanddiefeels native10:21
bullet`yea servers have those capacities10:21
bullet`aha thats cool10:21
bullet`can we say windows will be that good on the vm in mbp too ?10:21
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bullet`i have a laptop , vostro 1500, and now its the 3rd year going .. and i cannot convince myself to get any other laptop, nothing seems way better than my current laptop. But since few months i have my eyes on mbp 15, design wise and durabillity, i think everything is excellent.10:23
bullet`i know will have to spend a lot of money but totally worth it10:23
crashanddiebullet`: new macbook pros are going to come out10:23
crashanddiebullet`: it's a bad time to buy -- you won't get good value for money10:24
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bullet`but since i do the dvelopment in windows, i cant give it up totally.10:24
crashanddiewait for the new ones to come out, and then buy refurbished10:24
bullet`yea i have heard that somewhere, maybe engadget .. will wait for them10:24
crashanddieyou can get 10-40% off10:24
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bullet`how long have u been using yours ?10:25
crashanddiebullet`: Don't forget that there's bootcamp, which allows you to boot windows natively as well10:25
crashanddie6 months10:25
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crashanddieBut I can't expect a windows vm not to run smoothly10:25
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bullet`any fears about battery ? will it run for like 2 years ?? its not replaceabl right ?10:25
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crashanddieWell, 6 months down the line and i still get 7hours out of mine10:26
crashanddieand if it breaks, I'll replace it... Whether I have to go to an apple store or not for that doesn't change much10:26
bullet`what about the new mbps, is the battery repleaceable ?10:26
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bullet`but its safe to  assume that the battery should last like 2 years .. so many ppl r using this stuff.10:27
crashanddiepretty much10:28
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crashanddiebullet`: I only have the 13" one though10:30
crashanddiebullet`: the 2.6Ghz one or whatever it is10:30
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crashanddieI upgrade the RAM myself, went from 2GB to 8GB (the prices from Apple are mad)10:30
bullet`so i should get the lowest ram available and than buy my own10:31
jacekowskioh no10:31
jacekowskiyou used non apple ram?10:31
bullet`so how muchw as the 8gb extra, did u sale the 2gb u had ?10:31
jacekowskithat's blasphemy10:32
crashanddienha, gave it to a friend10:32
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crashanddieI don't remember the price10:32
jacekowskiwhat's mounting sd card in n900?10:32
crashanddiebullet`: I think I paid $220 per 4GB chip10:33
mecequestion, why do people buy the iPad?10:33
crashanddiebullet`: so $440 in total, whereas from Apple it was like $1000 or something10:33
jacekowskicrashanddie: that's still cheaper than server memory10:33
crashanddiejacekowski: and? It just wasn't part of my budget10:34
bullet`i'll suffice with 4 gb i guess :)10:35
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crashanddieYou can run 2VMs with 2GB10:35
crashanddieI just give each VM 512MB10:36
bullet`crashanddie,  when mac os boots and ready to start doing stuff, how much ram is it taking at that time , generally ?10:36
crashanddieI have a few apps running in the background10:36
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crashanddieusually with Skype, browser and such, I'm around 500-70010:37
crashanddiewhen it just boots, probably 30010:37
bullet`thats pretty nice10:37
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crashanddiebullet`: you can run most OSs with 256MB of RAM10:39
crashanddieif you want to use it comfortably, 512, if you need to run memory intensive stuff, 768 or 102410:39
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bullet`yea i have tried several times, windows on windows ..10:40
bullet`it was ok ..10:40
bullet`but yes depends on what u wanna do and so adjust the ram accordingly10:41
crashanddiebullet`: where do you live?10:41
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bullet`well these days, i'm in east timor10:42
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crashanddiewhere the hell is that? Country/10:43
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bullet`its used to be a part of indonesia10:43
bullet`got independence in 200210:43
crashanddieoh wow10:43
bullet`first country of 21rst century10:43
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crashanddiemost recent country/10:44
bullet`its a pretty small island, near indonesia10:44
bullet`its 600km from darwin/australia10:44
crashanddiewell, I don't know how pricing is there, but I used to live in the UK, and bought my mbp in the US10:44
crashanddiePaid about half price10:44
crashanddiewell, maybe a tad more, but really, massive price difference10:44
ptleast timor? So you speak portuguese? Então você sabe português, bullet`? Costuma acessar fóruns de N900 brasileiros?10:45
bullet`well i cant find anything here for sure, i can pick up the laptop from singapore or indonesia, or maybe ask a friend coming from usa to get me mbp1510:45
bullet`hehe, no ptl i am not a local here10:45
ptloh, sorry then10:45
bullet`just trying to learn some stuff10:45
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timeless_mbpmy kernel_task uses 1.08gb :)10:46
bullet`portugese is official language here but the locals speak Tatum10:46
crashanddieptl: no, he's not used to going to the brasilian n900 forums you're an admin of :P10:46
timeless_mbpmy browser tends to use ~600mb10:46
ptlcrashanddie: I am not admin of any forum10:46
timeless_mbpmy irc client tends to use ~400mb10:46
crashanddie400mb on IRC?10:46
ptlI usually try hard to stay as an user10:46
ptladministering things steals your time.10:46
crashanddietimeless_mbp: what do you use?10:46
timeless_mbpmy indexer (like tracker) [Quicksilver] uses 150mb10:46
timeless_mbpcrashanddie: atm, ZFS, Caminio, Adium, Quicksilver10:47
timeless_mbpi'm pretty sure ZFS is the reason my kernel is using >1gb of ram10:47
crashanddietimeless_mbp: I don't have that much running, littlesnitch, macirssi, and that's about it :)10:47
* ptl is using irssi + irssi-proxy on server and kvirc on client10:48
crashanddiemacirssi uses something like 30mb I think10:48
timeless_mbphow many channels?10:50
timeless_mbpi have 33 tabs in 4 windows, from 4 networks including 6 tabs for servers10:51
timeless_mbp17 channels10:51
timeless_mbpadium (when it isn't crashing, or updating) is kinda nice10:51
timeless_mbpit has useful highlighting, and works w/ growl10:51
bullet`what do u do on so many channels ?10:52
timeless_mbpit draws a 'you stopped reading here' line and shows me where others poked me10:52
timeless_mbpbullet`: 17 is really not many at all10:52
timeless_mbpone network is for casual chat10:52
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bullet`i'm a noob so i have only 2 channel windows opn :)10:52
timeless_mbpactually 3 networks, sorry10:52
timeless_mbpone network is for work purposes10:52
timeless_mbpsplit into primary dev, backchannel, secondary dev, tertiary dev, monitoring10:53
bullet`just bcuz of n900, i started using irc10:53
timeless_mbpthis network is a couple public chats maemo/meego, plus a dev channel10:53
timeless_mbpthe last network is for standards work10:53
timeless_mbpin 3 areas iirc10:54
bullet`standards mean10:54
timeless_mbpthings like html, css, ...10:54
ptltimeless: doesn't it pay to use some bnc or irssi-proxy if adium crashes that much? This way you would still use adium but would not lose your session10:54
* timeless_mbp points to timeless10:54
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timeless_mbpif i need a little scrollback, timeless has it :)10:54
ptlircii epic10:55
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ptlmight be nice but it doesn't have the proxying of irssi ;)10:55
timeless_mbpptl: yep, running one of those10:55
* timeless_mbp shrugs10:55
ptltry it10:55
ptlI couldn't  believe I used irssi for so many years without actually knowing about irssi-proxy10:56
ptlyou just join the network and channels you need10:56
Anss|wondering what n will reveal in 3 minutes:
ptldo a /save layout, /load proxy, set up some basic stuff (ports and passwords)10:56
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ptland then you can use your irssi as an IRC server10:56
ptlit works transparently through every IRC client10:56
bullet`is there any public http proxy for accessing freenode channels ?10:56
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jacekowskiirc isn't going to work over http proxy10:57
ptlmight work10:57
ptlX-Chat can do IRC via http proxy10:58
Anss|ssh tunnel somewhere might do the trick10:58
Shapeshifterjust use screen10:58
ptlI don't know how it does that.10:58
Shapeshifterscreen + irssi10:58
Shapeshifteror weechat.10:58
timeless_mbpptl: oh, i know it exists10:58
timeless_mbpbullet`: ?10:58
bullet`but i need a public http proxy to use it xchat .. cuz from my home i cant access ip:port, its kind of a restriction , so if i cant specify some http procy, maybe i can chat from it10:58
bullet`yes i have tried that .. its good10:59
* timeless_mbp was very impressed by it10:59
bullet`but i was thinking if i can power xchat with some proxy at home10:59
bullet`yea pretty neat and fast10:59
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Shapeshifterlol fail11:01
Shapeshifterwhat an uber-impressive surprise this was.11:01
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Shapeshifter the count down ended 3 minutes ago11:03
timeless_mbpi'm impressed11:05
timeless_mbpthey managed to find articulate people11:05
timeless_mbpi didn't know nokia could do that!11:05
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Shapeshifterhey, look, you can have contacts on your home screen11:08
Shapeshifterisn't that something11:08
SpeedEvil2I want contacts on my homescreen! (So I can plug in a trackpoint)11:09
Anss|not big wow moment but still11:09
Anss|looks pretty ok devices all together11:09
* timeless_mbp sighs11:09
timeless_mbpfinns suck11:10
timeless_mbpAnss|: some offense intended11:10
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jacekowskiShapeshifter: countdown to pr1.2?11:10
timeless_mbp"pretty ok" is not English11:10
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timeless_mbpand "all together" is probably wrong. perhaps "all in all"11:12
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Anss|timeless_mbp, thank you for your opinion11:12
timeless_mbp(or just overall)11:12
Treibholzremote commands would be so cool for telepathy.11:13
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timeless_mbp"stick tongue out at user"11:14
Treibholzforwarding messages for example.11:14
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wiredok guys my n900 won't boot anymore :P it turns on, shows nokia logo, the bullets loading screen then turns black (but keeps running, i can tell cause if i hold the power button it powers off). is there any way i could salvage it without flashing it?11:19
ptltry using rd mode11:20
ptlsometimes it helps.11:21
jacekowskiwired: you shouldn't have tried to overclock it11:21
wiredit was not overclocked11:21
wiredjacekowski: oh come on11:21
wiredi indeed use it oc'd occasionally11:21
jacekowskido you want me to grep logs for wired and overclock?11:21
wiredbut i use the titan kernel11:22
wiredso on boot its not ocd11:22
Stskeepsat your own i'd say11:22
wiredblah i wish i could boot in console and see whats happening11:22
Treibholzcan I somehow configure the activesync-thing to not notify me on new mails in subfolders?11:22
wiredthis happened after a kernel upgrade so im guessing something went wrong there11:23
ptljacekowski: do you plan on making further improvements and adaptations in chromium for the N900? I think that's pretty much the general expectation11:23
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jacekowskiptl: yeah, the problem is that on my hardware it takes like 5h to build it11:23
jacekowskiptl: but i'll have new server today or tomorrow11:23
ptlwell, I should have known, chromium is a big beast11:23
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wiredjacekowski: try using distcc (localy) it helps11:24
jacekowskiptl: well, on maemo builder it's 20minutes11:24
Treibholzwebkit needs a huge amout of RAM and disk to build.11:24
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jacekowskibut i'll have
wiredjacekowski: in my arm gentoo chroot (on an i5) it went down from 2h22m to 51m with distcc :)11:25
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jacekowskiwhy would you use it on single machine11:25
wiredbecause the chroot emulates arm gcc11:26
wiredthats ugly11:26
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wiredif you send all the compiling to a native gcc that crosscompiles to arm11:26
wiredyou get huge speed increases11:26
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SpeedEvil2Is it that small?11:30
SpeedEvil2down to 40% that is11:30
SpeedEvil2I would have expected compiling natively to be several hundred percent faster11:31
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mortalwhy is my n800 battery discharging so rapidly11:32
mortallike 2 days11:32
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till-because it's old?11:32
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wiredSpeedEvil2: well there's still overhead, the configure phase has to be done by the chroot for one11:34
SpeedEvil2because it's a cheap knock-off from ebay?11:35
SpeedEvil2wired: hmm. I suppose it oesn't take that long before that starts to dominate.11:35
SpeedEvil2wired: working out where the time goes - bootchart? and optimising that might be interesting. For example - you don't need cat to run as arm11:35
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* SpeedEvil2 notes the evil daystar has in fact just woken him up.11:37
* Treibholz was happy, to find out, new batteries for the N900 aren't expensive. Mine will be down in a year (at the latest)11:37
SpeedEvil2Treibholz: ?11:38
SpeedEvil2Treibholz: you mean non-genuine ones?11:38
TreibholzSpeedEvil2: genuine, 12€11:38
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SpeedEvil2Treibholz: are you sure that's actually real - it just doesn't have 'genuine' printed on the battery?11:39
nid0theres no real guarantee it's genuine, and for that price i'd suggest it isnt11:39
mtrltyea right. :D11:39
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mtrlttwo reviews, both 1 star11:40
jacekowski447M    chrome11:40
mtrlti'd bet it's a cheap chinese copy11:40
jacekowskione single 447M binary11:40
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jacekowskiif i compile it with -g option11:40
SpeedEvil2jacekowski: lol.11:40
jacekowskiand don't strip11:40
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SpeedEvil2jacekowski: It'd be amusing to see if that started.11:40
jacekowskiit does11:41
jacekowskiin gdb11:41
Treibholzhmpf.... ok...11:41
jacekowskilinux kernel is clever enough to just mmap that file without loading it11:41
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jacekowskii'm just wondering how strip would shrink it11:42
bullet`later everyone11:42
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jacekowski35M     chrome11:43
jacekowski35M after stripping11:43
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SpeedEvil2Bring back lzexe!11:45
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jacekowskiptl: what happened to you nick?11:47
jacekowskiptl: pr1.2 is released?11:47
ptljacekowski: no11:47
ptljacekowski: you can say I'm giving up.11:47
jacekowskiyou can't give up on your dreams11:47
ptljacekowski: will try another venues. Announced my N900 on ebay11:48
ptlok, just kidding. :)11:48
ptlIt's just that ptl is registered, ptl_demands_PR12 not11:48
SpeedEvil2My clock does not drip down the screen! I'm selling my n900! Dalibreaker.11:49
cos^does anyone happen to know if LibLocation's reported speed is really in km/h in Maemo5? in Maemo4 it's in m/s11:49
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ptljacekowski: ptl_wants_Nokia_to_have_a_clue it too big for freenode11:50
cos^sounds like a pretty stupid api change, as m/s is the standard unit for velocity11:50
X-Fadecos^: double speed;  Current speed (km/h).11:50
Sceltptl: as konttori is on the paternity leave, no one does anything about pr1.211:51
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X-Fadecos^: Seems odd to me too btw ;)11:51
konttoriScelt: what do you mean?11:52
* lcuk thinks Scelt is wrong11:52
X-Fadekonttori: He wants a scoop ;)11:52
Sceltkonttori: you're not spaking the people there :D11:52
cos^another useless #ifdef between maemo 4 and 5 :-/11:52
konttorioh, yeah, I am not, except as a normal hacker/community member.11:52
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konttoriemilia is sleeping atm, so I am coding.11:52
ptlif you're from Nokia (I never know), please, guys. PR1.2 is important... release it. There's just too much frustration around it right now11:53
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ptlJust trying to help, now I'll return to my studies of the maemo5 environment.11:53
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X-Fadeptl: And you think that people working on it don't know that?11:53
konttoriwell, I am not even reading my nokia emails, so personally, I have no idea about the pr1.2 release status.11:53
ptlX-Fade: seems like they don't know 'hard enough', I dunno.11:53
konttori(and I want to keep it that way ;) )11:53
X-Fadeptl: Do you really think that Nokia has it sitting on the shelf and waits just to piss you off? :)11:54
ptlno, it must have its internal reasons11:54
Stskeepseach time people speak of pr1.2, it gets delayed one more day11:54
ptlbut they should nevertheless increase the priority.11:54
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Sceltkonttori: how about ovi maps 3 for N900? is it in progress at all?11:55
ptlStskeeps: the tmo topic keeps growing and growing... this way PR1.2 release schedule will outgrow the cold death of the universe11:55
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infobotptl meant: Stskeeps: the tmo topic keeps growing and growing... this way PR1.2 release schedule will outlive the cold death of the universe11:56
konttorito be honest, I am not exactly sure. They were working on it to some degree, but I wasn't exactly certain that did they decide to halt the development or not. It's part of the applications teams work, so I didn't pay too much attention to that, as I don't use it myself.11:56
konttoriis that uninformative enough? In theory, they are doing their app with web runtime, so it should be the same app for all nokia platforms, so, ... anyway, you can email to ask. He's heading the applications team for n900.11:57
ptlshe'll respond "Nokia doesn't announce release dates"11:58
konttori(or whatever the official term is... I suppose coach in these 'agile' days)11:58
ptlbut I thought it should be in testing stage by now. Are they still applying the fixes?11:58
Sceltkonttori: okay, thanks!11:59
konttoriactually, it's he.11:59
konttori(and not she)11:59
ptlsorry, "he" then11:59
ptlit's just that Simone is a lady's name in my country11:59
SceltI thought so too :P11:59
konttoriNokia Maps is developed completely by the nokia maps team, which does it for all platforms, so we have quite limited interaction with those guys.12:00
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konttoriAnd simone is the maemo contact person for nokia maps.12:01
Sceltand I think that they have some higher priorities for new s60 phones. launching new supported phones all the time12:01
StskeepsScelt: s60 team is also bigger though12:01
SceltStskeeps: there's one team doing all the maps dev12:02
konttoriwell, otoh, they are doing cross platform development, so that should not matter so much.12:02
konttorithat's the beauty of qt and wrt.12:02
StskeepsScelt: true12:02
Sceltkonttori: one hell of a jump in development12:03
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MiXu-Maps on S60 is pretty good, so I'm wondering what the hell went wrong with Maps for Maemo.12:03
MiXu-With the UI mostly12:03
ptlNothing went wrong12:03
ptlthey just have to reprogram it12:03
ptlnot so easy, I think12:03
ptllots of such code is dependent on UI12:03
konttoriI think s60 maps is not yet based on wrt.12:03
MiXu-The UI is not intuitive at all.12:03
konttoriwhile maemo ui is. anyway, as said, I have no clue what they are doing really.12:04
Sceltjust ircing and gettig paid :D12:04
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Sceltwork work work.... wirk wirk wirk... irc irc irc...12:04
ptlbork bork bork12:05
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Sceltovi maps should have come to older s60 phones too but I doubt that. Older customers are awfully often just forgotten12:05
jacekowskiwhy that is forcing https12:06
hrwScelt: many users of older s60 phones runs warez copy of ovi maps instead12:07
hrwScelt: license protection for ovi maps 3.x was broken over year ago12:07
Scelthrw: dunno. I bought the license two times. great app which I wanted to support12:07
hrwScelt: I got free month license and stay with tomtom device12:07
SceltI never bought tom tom or similar. ovi maps 3 was just fine12:08
jacekowskiyeah, it's nice to have satnav in a phone12:08
jacekowskibut i'm using tomtom in car12:08
jacekowskiit has better speaker12:08
jacekowskiwindscreen mount12:08
hrwjacekowski: fresher maps12:08
jacekowski( my windscreen has cracked couple days ago )12:08
jacekowskiwell, no12:09
hrwiq routes and few other nice things which ovi maps did not had12:09
Sceltovi maps were really up-to-date12:09
mtrltwho wants to look at the tiny monitor of a phone to navigate?12:09
SceltI don't look at the monitor12:09
mtrltin that case. :)12:10
nid0who looks at the monitor while driving anyway, thats what voice guidance is for12:10
Sceltbut I must admit that I never used the navigation in a place that I really know nothing about12:10
ptlI tried to navigate yesterday using Sygic and the FM transmitter. Didn't work very well12:10
hrwScelt: what pissed me off from ovi maps was very often recalculating of road12:10
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hrwScelt: it recalculated when I stopped on red light and then recalculated 5 meters later12:11
Scelthrw: ovi maps 2 did that but 3 solved all the problems I had with 2. left nothing to complain12:11
hrwScelt: ovi maps312:11
Sceltnot with me12:11
Sceltyou got the monday version12:11
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jacekowskibuilder is broken12:11
hrwScelt: which s60 phone? s60v3fp1 or s60v3fp2 or s60v5?12:11
X-Fadejacekowski: what's up?12:11
Scelthrw: N82. I think fp112:11
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jacekowskiX-Fade: i've sent something to build and it's still in queue12:12
X-Fadejacekowski: which one?12:12
jacekowskiX-Fade: do you have highlight for builder and broken?12:12
X-Fadejacekowski: it helps if you upload the tarball too.12:15
X-FadeOnly diff and .dsc are in your .changes ;)12:15
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jacekowskidput failed12:16
X-Fadejacekowski: check your .changes.12:16
X-Fadejacekowski: It is not in there either.12:16
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sECuREhrw: my ovi maps doesn’t recalculate routes at all. do i have to enable that?12:17
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hrwno idea, I left my s60 phone in decembber12:17
sECuREah, so you were not talking about the maemo version12:17
hrwsECuRE: maemo version of ovi maps is useless crap12:19
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sECuREyep, that’s what i think, too12:19
hrwpaper map is much better12:20
hrwtoo bad that there is no demo version of sygic maps12:20
MiXu-Yes, it's a shame.12:21
MiXu-Sygic is pretty good for car use12:21
jacekowskiif you have something to hold your phone12:21
jacekowskiand for that price you can buy dedicated tomtom12:22
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MiXu-Huh? For 59e?12:22
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MiXu-The cheapest tomtom I found with quick googling was 108,90e12:23
jacekowskiyou go to any shop here12:24
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jacekowskiand it's about 90 quid12:24
jacekowskiand includes in car charger12:24
jacekowskiwindscreen mount12:24
jacekowskibetter speaker12:24
JaffaCheap GPSes mean outlay for N900 car mount and Sygic probably isn't worth it for my occasional use.12:24
JaffaWill stick with Wayfinder on N810 for now12:24
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MiXu-I have a windscreen mount that cost me 11 euros.12:24
Jaffajacekowski: Probably faster fix when you don't have a data connection12:25
LynoureCheap GPSes are less handy for cycling than N900 with good maps would be.12:25
jacekowskitomtom have same maps everywhere12:25
MiXu-Sygic also has walking/cycling routing. I haven't tried that yet, but I know it's there.12:26
jacekowskiX-Fade: have you thought about displaying live progress somewhere?12:26
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MiXu-I'm just saying that you don't actually need an additional device for navigation. :)12:27
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jacekowskiMiXu-: yeah, it's usefull to take a look at map or something12:27
MiXu-I know there are devices that do the job slightly better than N900+Sygic.12:27
jacekowskibut it's not in car navigation12:27
X-Fadejacekowski: In this case it doesn't matter as your source is broken?12:28
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jacekowskifixed i it now12:29
jacekowskis/\ i//12:29
X-FadeYes, looks better.12:29
X-FadeAnyway, builds get picked up every 2 minutes and can run up to 8 in parallel.12:30
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jacekowskiwhat's used for it?12:31
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X-Fadesbdmock on the builder and buildme for build queue processing.12:31
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jacekowskirepository imports are done every 2 minutes as well?12:32
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X-Fadeimports are done every 2 mins yes.12:34
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povbotBug 3574151: was not found.12:46
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wiredfiasco+emmc fixed it12:47
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wiredthankfully i didn't lose much, i only had one [recent] config file not backed up, but its fresh in memory :)12:48
Shapeshiftermh, I can't seem to manage to install extensions in chromium. I tap "install" and it just scrolls to the top of the page and nothing happens12:48
ptlwired: you had to erase your emmc to fix the N900 boot issue?12:49
wiredyes unfortunately12:49
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Shapeshiftermh now it worked12:50
wiredbut i did manage to backup everything from mydocs12:50
wiredsince usb storage mode worked :)12:50
* GAN900 yawns and complains about the TSA making him get up early for the airport.12:51
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X-FadeGAN900: They allow you to fly?12:51
GAN900X-Fade, I guess we'll find out when I get there. ;)12:52
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* GAN900 doubts Delta would check with the TSA before taking somebody's money.12:52
X-FadeGAN900: Expected you to be on all kinds of no-fly lists :)12:52
GAN900X-Fade, you see the cloak bug?12:52
X-FadeGAN900: Yes, will do that.12:53
hrw~die maemo, die12:54
* infobot murders maemo, die, takes two shots to the head then crumples to the ground, lifeless...12:54
Stskeepsthat's rude12:54
* wired mental note - beware of kernel updates12:54
hrwStskeeps: it is rather too simple die sequence for it12:55
hrwwired: n900?12:55
wiredhrw: yeap12:55
hrwwired: so far there were no official kernel updates for n90012:55
wiredi did not say official12:55
hrwwired: I do not use unofficial ones - except mine ;)12:56
wiredyes thats probably what i should be doing as well12:56
wiredi was using the one in the repo12:56
wiredit updated today and boom12:56
wiredno boot12:56
jacekowskirootfs                  227.9M    224.3M         0 100% /12:57
ptl~die himself, ressurrect on the third day then goes on writing a large book about PR1.2 revelations, but12:57
* infobot murders himself, ressurrect on the third day then goes on writing a large book about PR1.2 revelations, but, takes two shots to the head then crumples to the ground, lifeless...12:57
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wiredjacekowski: you have to love that... happened to me as well :P12:57
ptlnever happened to me, lalalalala12:58
hrwwired: but you can flash just kernel so no worry12:58
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wiredhrw: tried, didn't work12:58
wiredhrw: tried fiasco alone, didn't work12:58
wiredtried a bunch of other stuff that didn't work before that12:58
wiredin the end i flashed fiasco+emmc and it booted12:59
ptlwhat's ~/MyDocs/cities/diskcache used for? it's huge12:59
hrwptl: ovi craps12:59
jacekowskigeotagging maybe12:59
lcukptl, some sort of diskcache for the maps ;)12:59
Stskeepsptl: cached maps12:59
jacekowski /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive12:59
jacekowskithat's hhuge12:59
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wiredmeh i wish i could boot gentoo on this with everything working12:59
jacekowskiand i suspect that it contains locale for all languages12:59
jacekowskiwired: i'm never going back to gentoo13:00
crashanddie_wired: well, ready for some 20 years of compilation?13:00
ptlI have ran ovi maps 3 or 4 times only since I bought the N90013:00
jacekowskieverything took to long to install13:00
wiredi love gentoo13:00
jacekowskiit's slow13:00
crashanddie_I loved Gentoo with a passion, but seriously, having to manually remove the masks of unstable packages, never again13:00
ptlcan't imagine why this directory is so large13:00
jacekowskicrashanddie_: autounmask13:00
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wiredcrashanddie_: no, i already have a gentoo chroot on the n900, i built it on my i513:00
wiredand i use ~, stable is for servers13:00
crashanddie_wired: so, only took 10 hours?13:01
crashanddie_for 0 performance gain?13:01
wiredi don't care about performance13:01
wiredi care about knowing what the heck is going on with my system13:01
crashanddie_finally someone who understands gentoo13:01
jacekowskiwell, i've tried different combinations13:01
crashanddie_wired: you just gave me confidence in the human race again13:01
jacekowskiand gentoo is faster13:01
dragon900wired: have you tried gentoo prefix?13:02
jacekowskibut only because of one reason13:02
wiredand i enjoy the way gentoo works13:02
jacekowskistock kernel in most of distributions is bloated13:02
wireddragon900: no, not yet anyway13:02
jacekowskiand that's where most of performance is lost13:02
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wireddragon900: i guess i should at some point13:02
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dragon900i set gentoo prefix up on my n900 today13:03
wiredcrashanddie_: i also like use flags and ebuilds are really easy and fun to write =]13:03
dragon900even with distcc, emerge is really slow :(13:03
wiredcreate a gentoo/arm chroot on a fast system13:04
wiredusing qemu-user13:04
wiredand build binpackages13:04
jacekowskidragon900: paludis13:04
wiredthat won't get him past the configure phases faster13:05
jacekowskiand emerge "recently" became faster13:05
jacekowskiwired: but emerge is awfully slow on calculating dependencie13:05
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wiredits ok now, unless you override eclasses13:05
jacekowskiwhen did it changed?13:05
jacekowskiit was awfully slow 2 years ago13:06
jacekowskiand 3 years ago13:06
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jacekowskiand 4 years ago13:06
jacekowskiso i doubt anything has changed13:06
wiredim only using gentoo for 2 years this june13:06
wiredand developing for it since last july, but it did improve vastly at some point :)13:06
jacekowskiint a=1; a=a<<8; printf("%d",a)13:08
jacekowski256 or 0?13:08
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jacekowskiit's either << or >>13:09
lcukalso jacekowski it wont compile13:10
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jacekowskijacekowski:~# gcc test.c13:13
jacekowskijacekowski:~# ./a.out13:13
jacekowskiwell it compiles on x8613:13
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lcukwow, a c compiler that doesnt care about putting things in functions or semi colons :p13:14
wall[e]hi, can you format MyDocs to ext3 or something?13:14
wall[e]is it safe to do that?13:14
ptlyou have to modify mmc-mount for that13:15
ptland it will break when you update.13:15
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ptlso, use the definition of 'safe' you like better. :)13:15
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wall[e]lol ok13:16
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SpeedEvilI shrunk mydocs to 4g and put another ext3 partition in the space13:17
ptlI am bzip2-tarring my ~user13:20
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ptl1.3GB so far... excluding some movies and my mp313:20
ptlso I can do more audacious stunts with my N900.13:21
wall[e]cool, good ideas thank!13:22
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jacekowskiwhat is mounting memory card?13:25
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ptljacekowski: Unix jargon for assigning a mount point (a directory) for some drive/partition and making it available13:29
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noobn900hello everyone. I am new to linux and just got my n900. I plugged in the USB cable, it asked me if I wanted to go into MASS STORAGE MODE, I said yes. Then I copied some files over, now I unmounted the device off linux pc, but how do I get the phone to "get out of MASS STORAGE MODE?" it's still showing USB Connected - Mass Storage Mode and I donm't want to just unplug it if there's something I can do to turn off mass storage mode on the n90013:31
fralspretty sure you need to unplug it13:32
TigerTaelEject the USB device?13:32
sECuREno, ejecting does not do anything13:34
sECuREyou need to re-plug13:34
sECuREthere is a ticket for that13:34
noobn900sECuRE: thanks13:34
TigerTaelwhy RE-PLUG it?13:34
TigerTaelHe wants to turn off mass storage mode.13:34
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TigerTaelDidn't say he wants it back on or in a different mode.13:34
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noobn900TigerTael: I figured I just unplug it and see. It's just I'm used to the G1 that used to ask you to get into some kind of usb storage mode, and when you were done you would go back and turn off the storage mode to be on the safe side. I guess n900 doesn't have that, you just unplug it once the n900 is unmounted from your connected pc.13:36
pupnikthe umount should flush any write cache13:36
noobn900pupnik: k, thanks. just wasn't sure, still new to this n900 but I already love it :D13:37
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lcuknoobn900, one question - are you, or have you ever been a monkey?13:38
noobn900lcuk: monkey?13:38
X-Fadelcuk: lol ;)13:38
lcukits ok noobn900 :) theres a noobmonkey who comes in with his n900 ;)13:39
noobn900lcuk: oh haha. I didn't know what nick to pick when entering this channel. I'm sure I'll be registering myself on and on freenode soon to be a regular idler though13:40
bullet`yea thats noovmonkey13:41
lcukim sorry, you cannot idle13:41
lcukspace core directive 397 states13:41
lcukany n00b must pull his weight13:42
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noobapehow about that? :)13:42
noobapehm, that just looks wrong ...aka   "no babe" (+typo?!)13:43
* lcuk wanders off back to work muttering something derogatory about irc ;)13:43
* pupnik lcuk will let us know when he thinks it is time :)13:43
lcuktime for?13:43
noobapeanyways, good night ya'll. Thanks again for the pointers. Off to play some more with the n90013:43
pupnikcheers have fun noobape13:43
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* DocScrutinizer grumbles14:01
DocScrutinizerknow I'm late on the 'paper' :-((14:02
jaskano remoorse14:02
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DocScrutinizer""Dear cutomer. Your device needs a send-in to Nokia for further processing"" >:-(14:03
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bilboed-pianyone knows how to clear the dhcp cache ?14:05
DocScrutinizerso prepare for at least another two weeks of a evil-mooded DocScrutinizer14:05
bilboed-pii.e. I want the device to get another ip14:05
MiXu-run "dhclient" from cli as root?14:06
derfbilboed-pi: What are you using for a dhcp server?14:06
pupnikDocScrutinizer: what are you writing14:06
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bilboed-piderf, no idea14:06
bilboed-piderf, I'm talking about client side14:06
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DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: that'S rather tricky, as DHCP-servers tend to keep IPs for MACs14:07
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DocScrutinizernot the internets' DHCP servers though14:07
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DocScrutinizerbut your router for sure does14:08
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lcukyou should be able to try to get a new ip tho - bilboed-pi what do you need a new one for?14:08
lcukhave you used all the bits on your current one?14:08
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bilboed-pilcuk, no, it's just that sip is so much fail with this phone... that it didn't close the previous connection14:09
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bilboed-pilcuk, ending up with... still receiving the incoming udp/rtp stuff14:09
DocScrutinizerfor DSL / GPRS/3G oit's as simple as relogin14:09
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DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: that should stop in max 5min14:10
DocScrutinizerrather 2 minutes14:11
bilboed-piit's been over an hour14:11
DocScrutinizerrogue far end14:11
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bilboed-piI don't even understand why it's allowing the two udp connections14:12
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DocScrutinizerandway I gather it's about a public IP then. Just tear down and re-establish the connection to the internets14:12
bilboed-piwhy can't it just kick it out14:12
bilboed-piDocScrutinizer, I can't tear it down, company internet14:13
lcukudp == connectionless14:13
bilboed-pilcuk, you still get the point14:13
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: yep, but you'd get a new DHCP-lease14:13
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DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: so I take it you're behind a NAT14:14
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lcuki can see why bilboed-pi wants to change ip, but the problem is in whatever server is trying to continuously push data to a machine thats not even acking14:14
GAN900Wee, hooray for backed-up Delta.14:15
GAN900Direct flight my ass.14:15
DocScrutinizerhmm, inbound UDP keeps the NAT sesssion alive14:15
bilboed-pilcuk, I don't get why when calling again... it doesn't instruct the server to drop the other connection14:15
infobotbilboed-pi meant: lcuk, I don't get why when calling again... SIP doesn't instruct the server to drop the other connection14:15
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DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: A SIP-conversation is bound to a unique ID, you can't cancel it by initiating a second conversation14:16
javispedroGAN900: flying to san francisco?14:16
* bilboed-pi still doesn't get why it stays up for so long14:16
javispedroenjoy! :)14:17
DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: technically it's not the SIP registrar or SIP-server that's spamming you, but the peer (probably gateway)14:17
DocScrutinizerthere's very little the registrar can do about it14:18
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bilboed-pigah :(14:18
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bilboed-piDocScrutinizer, but since I'm calling a landline... the gateway's owned by the SIP operator I guess14:18
DocScrutinizeryep, usually. still separate entities14:19
lcukbilboed-pi, silly question, did the person on the other end of hte landline hang up14:19
bilboed-pilcuk, I'm dialling into a conference server14:19
bilboed-pilcuk, so it'll act dumb as shit forever14:19
GAN900javispedro, hopefully, connecting in the most obnoxiously distant location possible for this flight14:19
bilboed-pilcuk, looking through my logs it looks like those connections stay up 2 hours14:20
javispedrohope some of the slides will be up after the event14:20
DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: out of luck14:20
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GAN900Seat request14:21
* GAN900 shakes fist at Kaleva.14:21
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ptlis this some kind of greeting?14:22
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DocScrutinizeryour client failed to tear down the connection correctly, now you probably lost the call 'handle'. Instruct conference telco provider to nuke the conference14:22
lcukbilboed-pi, eep14:22
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DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: or disconnect your PC from ethernet (or shut down) for some minutes, until your company's NAT decides to drop the session14:23
bilboed-piDocScrutinizer, .... maybe I wasn't clear at the beginning14:24
BCMMmy n900 is asking me for the WEP key for my 802.11 network, but it's a WPA network14:24
bilboed-piDocScrutinizer, I'm using the n90014:24
BCMManyone else had this?14:24
nid0have you tried giving it the key?14:25
BCMMnid0: yes, it quite reasonably complains that it isn't the right length for a WEP key14:25
DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: N900 is a subclass of PC anyway14:25
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nid0beats me then, i've never had any problems with wpa access14:26
BCMMif i connect manually using xterm, will it recognise that it's supposed to use it as its internet connection?14:26
DocScrutinizerbilboed-pi: switch to 'flight-mode' for 10 minutes. Might cure it14:26
koala_manI hate to ask, but.. did you point at the wrong network?14:27
BCMMkoala_man: thanks, i'll do it again carefully14:27
DocScrutinizerthere's fuckedup AP out there, that do 'dual mode' allowing WEP *plus* WPA un same SSID and network14:28
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BCMMDocScrutinizer: ook, is that what "mixed" might mean on the router?14:29
DocScrutinizerYES ;-P14:29
BCMMDocScrutinizer: actually, not sure that's what it means14:29
nid0nice idea, but routers that do that really should provide two ssid's14:30
BCMMDocScrutinizer: options are disabled, mixed, b-only, g-only14:30
nid0ah different14:30
nid0thats just transmission modes14:30
nid0nothing to do with the security in use14:30
DocScrutinizerooh, so that's another mixed14:30
BCMMi know, different 802.11 standards14:30
BCMMstill, might unconfuse something14:30
javispedroGAN900: facepalm on this ;) :
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nid0the only time you might get confusion from transmission modes is if you have an -n capable router broadcasting on both 2.4 and 5ghz14:31
nid0but even then the security method in use would be unrelated14:31
GAN900javispedro, yeah, I did. . . .14:31
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javispedroand this is why we shouldn't use such attractive topic tiles :P14:32
BCMMnah, changing wireless standards doesn't make it recognise the WPA network14:32
javispedromaybe "request" would've been a more appropriate word.14:32
TigerTaelturn off WEP?14:32
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: how do you get the nice links pointing to a particular post in the whole thread??14:33
BCMMTigerTael: how do you mean?14:34
BCMMTigerTael: the router doesn't do WEP14:34
nid0DocScrutinizer: the link under the post number14:34
nid0top right14:34
BCMMit's doing WPA personal with TKIP14:34
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BCMMwell, it can do wep, but certainly isn't14:34
javispedroDocScrutinizer: yeah, but that link goes directly to post instead of thread; replace showpost with showthread and add # and done.14:35
BCMMif i just set up the network connection manually, will it know to use it as an internet connection?14:35
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nid0just a minor thought, is the router set to wpa or wpa2?14:35
javispedroDocScrutinizer: (or grab the full thread link from the single post view)14:35
BCMMnid0: that's odd, it's set to wpa14:35
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: pfffuh, thought I'm losing my force14:35
crashanddie_who's done some graphical app with python here?14:35
BCMMnid0: i don't know why that should be; but perhaps somebody had an obsolete laptop a while ago14:35
BCMMthey certainly don't now14:36
crashanddie_ptl: once more and you get kicked14:36
ptlbest facepalm yet in TMO:
nid0for the sake of trying, give wpa2 a try? I havent personally used wpa on my n900, every router I connect to's wpa214:36
ptlI was laughing from the TMO thread, crashanddie14:36
BCMMnid0: thanks a lot!14:36
ptlthe guy confused the arrow for leaving fullscreen with the arrow for enabling mouse mode.14:37
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BCMMnid0: that makes a lot of sense; i can't see why they'd put a great deal of testing into that14:37
nid0that actually fixed it?14:37
crashanddie_GeneralAntilles: around?14:37
BCMMnid0: oh yes, i remember now - somebody had a stupid stupid laptop a few years ago taht wouldn't do wpa214:37
BCMMnid0: yeah14:37
BCMMwell, it says it did14:37
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nid0if it works fine with the router in wpa2 but not in wpa, i'd suggest filing a bug report, just so it's at least known about14:37
nid0though as you say wpa isnt used much any more so it probably never got tested properly to begin with14:38
Sceltptl: pr1.2 out+014:38
BCMMuh, maemo won't let me 'ping' as a normal user/14:38
BCMMguess i'll have to use a web browser or something14:38
crashanddie_BCMM: yes, that's normal14:38
BCMMoh wow, internet14:38
BCMM(it just arrived today)14:39
BCMMany idea if it's normal that i can't connect to the internet via 3g yet?14:39
nid0if your sim's active you shouldnt have problems14:39
BCMMnid0: well, i made a phone call14:40
BCMMthey are supposed to be moving my old number over though, and i don't think they've done that yet14:40
lcukBCMM, some ISPs internet connection settings may be incorrect14:40
BCMMmeh, perhaps there is just no reception here14:40
lcukspeak with the service provider about correct settings14:40
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BCMMany idea how to tell the difference between poor signal and just plain not working with the network?14:40
nid0if you have signal and the connection icon just constantly flashes14:41
DocScrutinizerBCMM: you need any kind of dataplan for your SIM, plus correct APN settings14:41
crashanddie_BCMM: poor signal: takes a long time to load, not working: doesn't load14:41
nid0its probably a connection settings fault14:41
BCMMDocScrutinizer: yeah, supposed to have an 'unlimited' data plan14:41
BCMM(scare quotes intended)14:41
DocScrutinizerBCMM: carrier?14:41
BCMMDocScrutinizer: t-mobile14:42
BCMMcrashanddie_: UK14:42
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DocScrutinizeranybody on UK t-mobile please psot the APN settings?14:44
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asjDocScrutinizer: there's a huge list of them if you google it14:44
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DocScrutinizerasj: the idea of IRC partially is to help noobs with direct help, rather than telling them 'try the 5k hits in google - well, probably 90% are BS or don't apply to your case"14:45
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asjDocScrutinizer: wow, now that makes me want to help you now doesn't it? :)14:46
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DocScrutinizerhelp ME??14:46
DocScrutinizerI'll consider to help YOU pal ;-P14:46
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer: may as it be for you, the other 90% of IRC is to make fun of noobs who come here and ask questions that have 5000 answers on Google14:46
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koala_manwhile the other 10% solves your problem14:46
asjkoala_man: 6%14:47
crashanddie_asj: 3%14:47
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crashanddie_c'mon doc, say 1%, full circle!14:47
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asjkoala_man: the other 3% give wrong answers, and 1% give you answers that destroy your system14:47
crashanddie_BCMM: install maemo-devel and install Qt 4.614:48
koala_manstill better than a lot of irc channels14:48
crashanddie_will solve all your problems14:48
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crashanddie_BCMM: it will even make your kids smell nice without them taking a bath. Heck, you'll smell nice without taking a shower.14:48
DocScrutinizerBCMM: sorry for the fools here, please come back when they finished their silly hour :-)14:49
asjDocScrutinizer: when is that exactly? :)14:49
crashanddie_ /kick DocScrutinizer stop being such a buzzkill14:49
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crashanddie_asj: when DocScrutinizer isn't around :P14:50
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crashanddie_man he ain't coming back14:53
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asjdo we all need to /invite him back?14:53
crashanddie_you can't14:53
DocScrutinizer-8I'm always with you14:53
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Ken-YoungCheck for stigmata.14:54
crashanddie_not _always_14:54
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DocScrutinizervery refreshing. I'd recommend this to everybody feeling pissed by IRC ;-P14:56
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pupnik < DocScrutinizer> asj: the idea of IRC partially is to help noobs with direct help.14:56
asjpupnik: are you mocking him or me? :)14:57
crashanddie_he mocks himself14:57
DocScrutinizerme of ourse14:57
ptlas I was saying14:57
crashanddie_pupnik is one of the rare auto-flagelating people on the planet14:57
ptlScelt: no PR1.2, but thanks for the joke anyway :)14:57
crashanddie_before him, we had jesus14:57
Sceltptl: :-D14:57
crashanddie_ptl: I can give you the opper power, if you wish to avenge yourself on Scelt14:58
crashanddie_too late14:58
ptlcrashanddie_: lol14:58
DocScrutinizerdman, you've never seen those muslim mass madness?14:58
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pupniksounds like a video game14:58
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ptlthanks :)14:58
crashanddie_ptl: you're not kick enough14:58
crashanddie_(hehe, saw what I did there?)14:59
crashanddie_wordplay on kick and quick14:59
ptlI tried to /deop myself as soon as I've seen the @ but chanserv was faster14:59
crashanddie_That'd be interesting14:59
crashanddie_if you could do anything in the channel14:59