IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-04-12

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GAN900The iPad really, really needs a kickstand00:00
MohammadAGIt needs a kick00:00
javispedroiPad + kickstand reference reminds javispedro of ...00:00
GAN900You have to be holding it constantly if you want a good angle on the screen.00:00
jaskaa stand to put it on so you can kick it better?00:00
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jaskalike a tee for golf balls00:00
b-manluke-jr: - for ramzswap ;)00:01
jacekowskiOtacon22: because that's not a bug really00:01
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Otacon22it's an application bug00:01
Otacon22so it is a bug.00:02
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Otacon22please don't say thing that are not right00:02
jacekowskiOtacon22: that it refuses to authenticate using invalid certificate?00:02
b-manjavispedro: lol00:02
luke-jrb-man: looks liek N90000:02
javispedrojacekowski: that one is a bug (believe me I've been monitoring wpa ones)00:02
Otacon22no. The WPA2 EAP TLS auth fail with any certificate.00:02
javispedrojacekowski: I do know there are quite a few that are not bugs (psk key lens, override invalid certificate requests... etc.) but that one is a bug.00:02
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Otacon22not invalid one00:02
Otacon22but also a valid one00:02
jacekowskiwell, can't you just remove that certificate from keyring?00:03
javispedronot from the ui, but I guess yes.00:04
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corecodeoh jesus i hope they don't build hardware like they write kernel code00:12
javispedrothey build worse hardware00:12
t-tanthere must be reason why most stuff is closed-source....00:13
GAN900It's not even close to most00:14
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javispedrohardware, hardware!00:14
GAN900But the reasons are usually: differentiation, trade secrets, legacy or 3rd party.00:14
t-tanstuff that matters to access important hw components00:14
pupnikyes! nno! stop it!00:15
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jacekowskii'm just wondering what would happen if somebody would reverse it00:15
javispedroGAN900: legacy is reason used when the source plain sucks ;P00:15
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GAN900well, yeah00:16
GAN900But it's still a reason00:16
javispedro*after watching mbx kmod source code* definitely yes :)00:16
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: what do you want to RE? it's all disclosed already, except cellmo00:17
jacekowskiand power managment00:17
javispedroyou're asking the right people :)00:17
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jacekowskiso where is a code for bme_RX-51?00:18
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: power management is TI BQ24150, BQ27200, and TWL403000:18
javispedroDocScrutinizer: isn't cellmod also pretty much disclosed (ofono worked iirc)00:18
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: well the lowlevel access to the modem probably isn't though I never had a close look at it00:19
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javispedroit does seem to talk below the at layer at least00:20
DocScrutinizerI just know it's a I2C interface and we don't know the registers inside the modem chipset00:20
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yep exactly00:21
DocScrutinizerI2C direct register access00:21
* javispedro has a quick look at ofono..00:21
DocScrutinizernot much use in RE that00:21
DocScrutinizerwithout decent datasheets for the register adresses and functions00:22
javispedroisimodem is the backend the n900 ofono uses00:22
SpeedEvil1camera would be nice to RE00:22
SpeedEvil1and replace00:22
DocScrutinizeraah yes, another one00:22
SpeedEvil1(the sw, not the hw)00:22
SpeedEvil1Camera sucks in a fair few ways.00:22
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DocScrutinizerthough there probably cam manuf IP algo comes to stop Nokia from ever disclosing it00:23
SpeedEvil1Won't save to vfat - will sometimes not take pictures if it can't get a GPS fix - GPS position inaccurate00:23
SpeedEvil1does not integrate well with flashlight00:23
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javispedrowon't save to vfat? :P00:23
DocScrutinizeraaah you're talking bout the UI00:24
javispedros/ext3 ?00:24
SpeedEvil1won't save to not vfat00:24
DocScrutinizerand I thought that'S been fixed00:24
javispedrome too00:24
SpeedEvil1In 1.1.1?00:24
javispedroiirc it had to do with case sensitiveness AND permissions00:24
SpeedEvil1K, never tried it.00:24
DocScrutinizererhhm yes00:24
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yep00:24
SpeedEvilBut yes - lowlevel too would be interesting from a number of perspsectives00:25
corecodeSpeedEvil: where did you find the omap3430 datasheet?00:25
SpeedEvilOr google.00:25
DocScrutinizera root daemon creating a dir, and user process trying to write to it00:25
javispedroyou found the datasheet???00:25
javispedroor the trm?00:25
SpeedEvilI'm unsure - ...00:25
DocScrutinizercorecode: there are half a dozen00:26
javispedrothe trm/technical manual is public, the datasheet isn't. I didn't find the 3430 one.00:26
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corecodei'm just interested in what the smartreflex voltage points mean00:26
DocScrutinizerfor example00:26
javispedrothat's 3530 trm00:26
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javispedroer no.. sorry00:27
javispedro3530 trm, 3530 datasheet: public.00:27
javispedro3430 trm: public, SWPU223A_FinalEPDF_03_17_2010.pdf00:28
javispedro3430 datasheet: ???'00:28
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corecodeyea, what's up with that?00:28
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javispedroprobably requires nda00:28
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LiraNunahas anyone ever used NEON intrinsics?00:32
LiraNunaI'm looking for the NEON intrinsic equivalent of SSE's _mm_set_ps()00:33
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javispedroisn't that a plain load?00:34
javispedroon arm it would be implemented as a neon ldm at least.00:35
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LiraNunathing is, _mm_set_ps() allows me to set all 4 lanes in one line00:37
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LiraNunaa load would make me create an aligned const variable then use the appropriate load intrinsic00:37
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lardmanit makes /me glad to see the way #maemo has reverted to a nice channel for technical questions :)00:40
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spliffyit must be a temporary glitch :P00:41
LiraNunalardman, am I asking at the wrong place?00:41
lardmanno not at all00:41
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LiraNunaI'm really excited to work on NEON00:41
lardmanand I'm sorry that I don't know anything about NEON asm00:41
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LiraNunathis is the only docs I have -
javispedrothe issue is not about asm, but intrinsics00:41
javispedroand all I know is that they suck, but since you have a more recent compiler, dunno.00:42
LiraNunaI think what I want is vld1q_f32 but it takes a pointer00:42
LiraNunajavispedro, I use my own compiler since GCC 4.2.1 ICEs when optimizing NEON (-O2)00:42
javispedroyeah, I still remember that discussion00:42
javispedronote that the net result is that 4.2 was never assumed to support intrinsics :P00:43
lardmanhow much do they abstract the underlying asm?00:43
LiraNunathe headers are there00:43
LiraNunalardman, not much, that's a good thing I think00:44
LiraNunathe intrinsics almost map 1:1 to instructions00:44
javispedroLiraNuna: since you exactly know what you want, why you don't scrub the headers for functions accepting 4 floats?00:44
lardmanindeed, but then why not just write in pure asm and skip the intrinsics?00:44
LiraNunajavispedro, because it doesn't exist :(00:44
javispedrothen it doesn't exist00:44
javispedroLiraNuna: you said it yourself. they mostly map 1:1 to neon opcodes, and there can't be a "4 float loading opcode" for obvious reasons00:45
javispedroso in fact you want here an intrinsic doing "something more" which is to put stuff into .rodata with proper alignment and issue an ldm instruction00:45
LiraNunajavispedro, thing is, in SSE _mm_set_ps doesn't have an opcode, and the compiler simply uses movaps from a const memory location00:45
javispedrosee my point then :)00:46
LiraNunaugly ugly code00:47
* LiraNuna wants C++0x00:47
LiraNunavld1q_f32({1, 2, 3, 4});00:47
javispedrofloat32x4_t vec = { 1, 2, 3, 4 } seems to work00:48
LiraNunawell what do you know00:49
* LiraNuna dies00:49
LiraNunanow for shuffles00:50
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javispedrouh, for that gcc 4.2 generates two slow vmovs00:51
LiraNunayeah since you can't optimize it without an ICE00:51
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* LiraNuna -save-temps00:54
LiraNunajavispedro, looks good here00:56
LiraNunaloads a pointer to const data and00:56
LiraNunayou sound unpleased00:58
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* DocScrutinizer is actually highly pleased, like lardman00:59
javispedronaa, just bored :)00:59
LiraNunayou're just jealous 'cause I can use GCC 4.4.3 :301:00
javispedrofloat32x4_t vec = { 1, 2, 3, 4 };vec2 = vmulq_f32(vec, vec);01:00
javispedrothis one works with 4.201:00
LiraNunacan you -O201:00
javispedrobut is to be expected since the failing part is not invoked at all01:00
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LiraNunaoh, it doesn't even use it though01:00
javispedroit then does as you said, creates an .ltorg and a vld01:00
LiraNunatry printing it01:00
danielsilvacan I find the n900 default theme somewhere and use it for standard gtk apps on a desktop?01:01
javispedrotwo vldr actually01:01
DocScrutinizerI take it something inside OMAP knows how to handle 4dimensional vectors?01:01
danielsilvaor even hildon apps on a desktop01:01
javispedroit knows how to manipulate space time01:01
LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, it's called NEON, and it's a part of the Cortex-A801:01
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: it's a SSE wannabe01:01
DocScrutinizerthat's friggin awesome01:01
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LiraNunait's not really a wannabe, it seems better than SSE in theory01:01
javispedro(or actually SSE is a NEON wannabe)01:01
javispedrodepends on who you ask :)01:02
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LiraNunawell, SSE came before NEON, so01:02
LiraNuna<javispedro> two vldr actually01:02
javispedroat least it's easier to memorize than SSE which resembles x86 itself in evolution an design01:02
LiraNunaI think that's because the regs are 64bit01:02
LiraNunathere's no way to address 128bit directly, it seems01:02
LiraNunajavispedro, SSE is not very x86ish01:03
LiraNunamovaps - mov aligned parallel scalar01:03
LiraNunaaddaps - add aligned parallel scalar01:03
LiraNunaetc etc01:03
ssvbLiraNuna: use vld1, it can load up to 256 bits of data with a single instruction01:03
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LiraNunassvb, I did01:03
dandieselHey all.. have posted a thread in talk.maemo about (what I believe is) my bricked N900..01:04
LiraNunassvb, code seems massier01:04
ssvbLiraNuna: ugh, these are intrinsics01:04
LiraNunassvb, so...?01:04
LiraNunaI like portable code01:04
ssvbLiraNuna: so it's a compiler fault, not neon01:05
MohammadAGdandiesel, N900s don't brick01:05
LiraNunahmm, stmia+vld1.32 vs. vldr x201:05
ssvbLiraNuna: using aligned vld1 instructions you can load 128-bits of data per cycle, which is nice01:05
dandiesel@MohammadAG i've got a blank screen , non responsive01:05
javispedroLiraNuna: i mean that it's been extended and extended and extended... like x86. neon seemingly looks nicer.01:05
LiraNunajavispedro, ah, I see01:06
simuladandiesel, did you remove the battery and hold down the power button?01:06
LiraNunassvb, aligned to what?01:06
ssvbLiraNuna: aligned at 128-bit boundary (16 bytes)01:06
LiraNunalike SSE, I see01:06
javispedrobtw, while googling,
dandieselhave removed battery, here are the steps i've taken so far :
ssvbjavispedro: that's for mixing arm and neon01:07
javispedroyeah, I read it :)01:07
dandieselCan't seem to get flasher to recognize the n900 when it's connected to USB in update mode01:08
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corecodethat trm does not seem to talk about how to configure the actual values of the voltage regulation01:09
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javispedroyeah, that's part of the datasheet.01:09
dandieselCan't seem to get flasher to recognize the n900 when it's connected to USB in update mode01:09
corecodejavispedro: heh01:09
javispedrosee the 3530 trm vs datasheet to get an idea01:09
corecodeso people who tweak the voltage controller operate in the dark?01:10
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javispedrothe "how" should be in the trm, and it's also in the kernel01:10
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corecodeyea, but not the what01:10
javispedrothe "why" isn't.01:10
javispedroor the what :)01:10
corecode0x30 is 1.2 volt, says the kernel01:11
corecodebut how much you need for what and what 0x2f would be...01:11
dandieselCan anyone help..? Thought this would be the best place to check.01:11
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lardmandandiesel: Windows?01:12
LiraNunassvb, I think two vldr's are actually better if data is in .text01:13
LiraNunaARM is RISC, isn't it01:13
dandieselwindows 7 64 bit01:14
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lardmandandiesel: I've never got the Windows flasher to work01:14
dandieselHave tried running flasher in 32bit xp compatibility mode, in administrator mode etc.. 'Suitable USB device not found'.01:14
dandieselAh interesting01:14
lardmandandiesel: 32bit XP, and I know what I'm doing01:14
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lardmandandiesel: I'd suggest booting a Linux LiveCD and using the Linux flasher, works everytime01:15
LiraNuna"I know what I'm doing" lines always scare me01:15
LiraNunaespecially since I say them too much myself01:15
lardmanwell, I have reasonable experience of debugging Windows drivers then01:15
dandieselyeah I was looking at that option, guess I don't have a choice :)01:15
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LiraNunadandiesel, Linux is free, etc etc01:15
dandieseli know :)01:16
LiraNunaa 64bit flasher would be nice, though :(01:16
MohammadAGit works on linux01:16
MohammadAGthe 32 bit flasher works on a 64 bit system01:16
lardmanmy thought was that the device isn't seen in its flashing state for long enough for the driver to be installed, eventually it gets bored and starts to boot and appears as mass storage01:16
jacekowskii'm not going to mention other things that would be nice as wel01:16
MohammadAG(and a 64 bit OS)01:16
LiraNunaMohammadAG, yes... I know that01:16
LiraNunabut a native one is always better(TM)01:16
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MohammadAGchanging the control file should be possible01:17
dandieselyes lardman , Nokia USB Parent flasher drivers won't install as it seems the 'device is unplugged' before it manages to install01:17
lardmandandiesel: you might be able to manually force the installation of the driver without the device attached, but as I dual boot I couldn't be bothered and just use Linux01:17
MohammadAGdandiesel, hold u before inserting the cable01:17
MohammadAGNokia should've gone the iPhone way of update mode (not flaming/trolling w/e)01:18
dandieseli was wondering about that lardman , not sure how to go about it. thanks mohammad have been doing that all day unfortunately it's not recognising the device (earlier my printers and devices DID show n900 connected in update mode however)01:18
MohammadAGthe iPhone doesn't exit DFU mode, even when unplugged01:18
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MohammadAGyou can get DSL01:18
lardmandandiesel: I'm not overly sure how I'd do it for Windows either - need to identify the ID of the "flashing ready device", then see which driver needs to be installed, etc., etc01:18
MohammadAG(Damn Small Linux)01:19
MohammadAGand install flasher01:19
lardmandandiesel: yep, I'd go with that tbh, boot off a flash drive or CD01:19
dandiesellooks like it's my last resort i think. it's a pain not being able to actually see whats on screen on the device01:19
MohammadAGDSL is 30MBs01:19
MohammadAGUbuntu is 700MBs01:19
MohammadAGso pick the one you want :)01:19
lardmanthough if someone does have the time to work out how to sort the Windows drivers that would be good - I wonder what the Nokians think....?01:19
MohammadAGlardman, "they can use a 32 bit OS, screw them"01:20
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lcuksomeone should work out how to do n900 -> n900 flashing too :D01:20
javispedrocorecode: 0x30 is 1.2 volt says who?01:20
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corecodekernel comment01:20
lardmanMohammadAG: doesn't work on 32bit WinXP either01:21
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MohammadAGlcuk, agreed, I'm surprised there aren't videos from NokiaConversations01:21
MohammadAG(on youtube)01:21
MohammadAGlardman, works for me on 32 bit XP PC01:21
lardmanlcuk: I guess it's still possible to flash directly on the device01:21
lardmanMohammadAG: ah, not for me though01:21
MohammadAGnot sure why01:21
lcuklardman, that would be an idea01:21
MohammadAGa hard one to implement :P01:22
lcuktho some flash images would wipe out the data they are flashing01:22
lardmanno, the n8x0 could do that01:22
lcukunless such a process ONLY activated with stuff on the actual removable mmc01:22
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MohammadAGthey can sacrifice (weird choice of words) 300MBs from the eMMC01:22
MohammadAGand put a recovery partition01:22
ssvbLiraNuna: vldr's are slower, but they are more flexible and support more addressing modes, so the compiler prefers them01:22
lcukyes MohammadAG but that recovery partition could need redoing01:22
LiraNunassvb, 'slower' how? isn't it RISC?01:22
MohammadAGlcuk, like?01:23
lardmanrecovery partitions are overrated01:23
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ssvbLiraNuna: vldr's only have 64-bit per cycle throughput01:23
MohammadAGlcuk, the image would have to be updated, they can add that function in flasher01:23
lcuki quite like the idea of having multiple variation OSes on external mmcs01:24
MohammadAGthey can also add the Wifi drivers and cellular drivers, as well as wget01:24
DocScrutinizerlcuk: enable usb-hostmode, plug in target device, start flasher. Should be simple ;-)01:24
lcukcan flip through them like tiny amiga floppy disks :D01:24
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MohammadAGto fetch the image01:24
lcukDocScrutinizer, ok - try it01:24
LiraNunassvb, I see it, but I also see GCC setting up the stack to use vld1.3201:24
MohammadAGwell flasher is on the N90001:24
MohammadAGso if host mode is possible01:24
MohammadAGone N900 can flash the other01:25
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I'll do in a few days :-D01:25
lcukMohammadAG, compromisewhich doesnt need it01:25
MohammadAG(what if the two are bricked :P)01:25
javispedrocorecode: that value has no meaning to nobody other than smartreflex01:25
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LiraNunassvb, they may be slower in batch loading, however I try to load one01:25
lcuk:) great DocScrutinizer01:25
tealbirdAnyone in SF south bay looking to carpool for ELC?01:25
* GeneralAntilles is going to forgo any quotes on the overclocking story. . . .01:25
tealbirdembedded linux conference01:25
LiraNunaI'd love to, but I have to work :|01:26
tealbirdToo bad01:26
* DocScrutinizer kicks GeneralAntilles for using the O-word :-P01:26
LiraNunadamn weekday confrences01:26
GeneralAntillestealbird, now or in the future?01:26
LiraNunait's tomorrow01:26
* GeneralAntilles knows Myrtti may have been looking for transportation.01:27
tealbirdI'm taking time off, didn't even try to get work time cuz I know they wouldn't pay01:27
ssvbLiraNuna: single load may be fine, but really optimized neon code needs to schedule load/store and alu instructions so that dual issue is used, also all the latencies need to be taken into accound with loops unrolled and pipelined01:27
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: and SmartReflex(R) is IP of TI01:27
LiraNunaNEON is more complex than SSE, isn't it01:27
ssvbno, it's easier01:27
ssvbbecause it is more consistent and orthogonal01:27
LiraNunamaybe it's just my unfamiliarity with it01:28
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javispedroand also because since there's one chip to target only you can do optimize for stuff like what ssvb mentioned :)01:28
javispedro* argh, redundant word syndrome syndrome.01:28
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: also to my understanding SmartReflex(R) also comprises of a few kernel patches to manage the hw01:28
* lardman heads for bed01:28
lardmannight all01:28
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LiraNunag'night lardman01:28
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I am looking at it.01:28
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_bella_ • oie • 01:29
javispedroalso discovered that Nokia disabled the kernel parameter for o/c that had been in the kernel since the very first days and nobody noticed but I mentioned...01:29
ssvbLiraNuna: it's easy to convert code from SSE to NEON, but not the other way around01:29
LiraNunago-go-gadget Ctrl+H !01:30
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LiraNunassvb, is there shuffling in NEON?01:30
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer/javispedro/SpeedEvil/anybody else, want to take a look at the (incomplete) draft?
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: damn, was halfway under the shower01:32
ssvbLiraNuna: yes, vtbl01:32
javispedroGeneralAntilles: where do you plan to put that? in a giant bill board somewhere? :)01:32
ssvbLiraNuna: and vzip/vuzp which are faster01:32
LiraNunavtbl seems to be 8bit lanes only01:32
LiraNunazipping only goes in pairs01:33
ssvbLiraNuna: don't know about intrisincs, but real vtbl is very powerful01:33
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ssvbLiraNuna: it has 8-bit granularity, and MMX/SSE can handle only 16-bit data01:33
LiraNunassvb, yeah, I can see you can shuffle butes01:34
t-tanSpeedEvil: I calculated a complete freq*voltage^2 table01:34
ssvbLiraNuna: you can shuffle anything if you can shuffle bytes01:34
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LiraNunassvb, un/zip only goes for pairs, right01:35
LiraNunaugh my keyboard is dying01:35
t-tanjavispedro: which kernel parameter?01:35
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: added edit01:35
ssvbLiraNuna: zvip/vuzp can interleave/deinterleave data, don't know what you mean01:36
javispedrot-tan: mpurate and the rest01:36
ssvbLiraNuna: it's just the most common operation, for arbitrary shuffles vtbl is used01:37
LiraNunacan vtbl duplicate?01:37
LiraNunai.e if I give it a mask of 0's, will it duplicate first lane to all?01:37
ssvbLiraNuna: sure it can :) but you are better to use vdup, it is also faster01:37
LiraNuna(I know thre's vdup)01:38
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LiraNunassvb, when you say 'faster', do you mean setup time or clocks?01:38
ssvbLiraNuna: both01:38
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: add a passage more clearly pointing to the warranty loss01:38
LiraNunassvb, so NEON isn't RISC?01:38
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ssvbLiraNuna: for vdup/vzip/vuzp you do not need to construct index register01:39
ssvbLiraNuna: pure RISK does not exist anymore :)01:39
ssvbLiraNuna: do you have ARM Architecture Reference Manual?01:41
LiraNunassvb, somewhere here, yeah01:41
LiraNunaI only skimmed through it01:41
ssvbLiraNuna: this and Cortex-A8 TRM provide all the needed information01:41
pupnikepoc felt snappy.  all QT and Python and Java devs need to have an old psion for reference01:42
javispedroor a palmos handheld01:42
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: damn, new URL ->
javispedropupnik: never impressed by how launching garnetvm applications that rival in feature sets with those of maemo are still an order of magnitude faster than native maemo ones? :)01:43
javispedrothink calendar, etc.01:43
dandieselcan i create a livecd using slax?01:44
javispedro(of course, I'd never want to code nothing serious for PalmOS again)01:44
ssvbLiraNuna: also check this one, it's a good cortex-a8 microarchitecture overview:
MohammadAGdandiesel, use DSL, it's smaller01:44
dandieseldont want to download ubuntu01:44
corecodejavispedro: yes, but still people are tweaking the values to undervolt/overvolt the mpu01:45
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pupnikjavispedro: todays standard seems to be "well it feels faster than the web"01:45
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javispedrocorecode: but those do nothing at all from what I see in the code unless smartreflex is enabled01:45
javispedro(talking about vsel here)01:46
corecodejavispedro: yes, right01:48
corecodewell, people seem to be using sr01:48
javispedro(no wonder the crashes)01:48
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javispedrochanging the vsel without the associated opp voltage01:49
corecodewhat do you mean, without changing01:49
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javispedrothat I don't know what smartreflex uses vsel for, but if you're changing it _without_ changing the actual operating voltage, dunno what happens01:50
javispedromaybe smartreflex active does something around it, maybe it's just wrong and nobody knows01:50
corecodeshouldn't sr change the voltage?01:50
javispedroyes, but the above applies.01:51
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corecodefrom reading the code/trm i was under the impression that sr was responsible for ramping the voltage01:52
corecodedoesn't seem that any other part is being configured with changing voltage01:52
corecodeon opp switch01:53
DocScrutinizercorecode: [2010-04-12 00:28:43] <DocScrutinizer> javispedro: also to my understanding SmartReflex(R) also comprises of a few kernel patches to manage the hw01:53
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corecodeon top of the nokia kernel?01:53
javispedroDocScrutinizer: they're public, I'm looking at them.01:54
DocScrutinizeryes, the code is public, but the knowledge is IP of TI01:54
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jacekowskihave anybody tried how low you can go with frequency?01:57
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DocScrutinizer125 has been reported instable02:00
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jacekowskiwhat sort of instable?02:01
jacekowskii'll have to play around with it and see how low it can go and how does it improve battery life02:02
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: keep in mind the general strategy is run-to-idle where CPU is at zero Hz most of the time02:03
SpeedEvil_measuring while active at min cpu would be good02:03
ShadowJKKeep in mind that cpu is OFF in idle, so 125 only helps if phone is running something that constantly requires a small amount of cpu02:03
SpeedEvil_there are a few usecases for this02:03
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: :-P02:04
SpeedEvil_I wonder also how much can be pwered down with static screen02:04
* ShadowJK blames gprs lag ;-)02:05
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: use HSCSD ;-P02:05
t-tanjacekowski: 125 turned out to be worse for battery life than 25002:05
SpeedEvil_t-tan: measured how?02:06
ShadowJKn900 doesn't support it02:06
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: zero hz?02:06
javispedroSpeedEvil_: the lcd controller has a (afaik unused) slow refresh mode02:06
javispedrodunno if it does anything good :P02:07
SpeedEvil_javispedro: I got ~8% extra battery life on one laptop going from 24-4 bit mode02:07
javispedrointeresting, cause I would think quite a lot of time the n900 screen is on it's not doing anything at all02:07
javispedro(think 30 seconds countdown to poweroff, just reading text, ...)02:07
SpeedEvil_javispedro: screen is often quite readable with no backlight.02:08
javispedrodirect sunlight :)02:08
t-tanSpeedEvil_: while idling. device went much more often to max.freq than with 25002:08
SpeedEvil_but at low backlight settings, backlight uses a small fractiom02:08
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SpeedEvil_t-tan: that may be a matter of fixing stuff.02:09
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t-tanSpeedEvil_: yes, write a smarter governor02:09
SpeedEvil_maybe even just tweaking tweakables in the governor02:09
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SpeedEvil_not writing anything02:09
* DocScrutinizer mentions on OM FreeRunner a *dark* LCD display uses some 30mA power, probably for the 16 datalines pulled low most of the pixels transferred from SoC to LCD02:10
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SpeedEvil_DocScrutinizer: I see very little difference if any between black and white screen02:10
SpeedEvil_on noop02:10
DocScrutinizerhmm seems the N900 LCD has 3 LVD lines, which are neutral to actual data transferred02:11
t-tanpeople have played with the no avail02:12
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SpeedEvil_3, not 4 ?02:12
* javispedro ponders if the core voltage is changed in omap linux when smartreflex driver is removed02:12
SpeedEvil_what's the n900 screen depth02:12
javispedroSpeedEvil: interesting question. unknown.02:13
t-tanSpeedEvil_:  color or physical?02:13
DocScrutinizeryeah, unknown02:14
javispedroactual panel is acx565akm iirc. no datasheet.02:14
t-tani guess 6bit/channel as usual for TN displays02:14
DocScrutinizerthough there seem idications it's 5/6/502:14
LiraNunassvb, thanks for that link02:14
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jaekdoes the headphone jack on the n900 work as line-in also?02:16
ssvbLiraNuna: you are welcome, feel free to bug me if you have any neon related questions :)02:16
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LiraNunassvb, you'll regret saying that ;P02:16
t-tanthe iPad might have true 24bit color as it is a IPS panel02:16
LiraNunaipad more like hype-pad02:16
SpeedEviljaek: no02:16
jaekcant use the tuner/recorder with an electric (silent) guitar T_T02:17
ssvbLiraNuna: btw, direct access to L2 cache from NEON unit is broken and disabled in current OMAP3 chips, so it always goes through L1 now02:17
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GAN900t-tan, viewing angle sucks.02:17
pupnikfm transmitter on guitar02:17
LiraNunassvb, crap.02:18
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jaekdoesnt the hw have a line in on the jack? the headphones that come with the n900 have a mic02:19
DocScrutinizerGAN900: what's going to happen with your OC statement?02:19
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, thanks!02:19
GeneralAntillesjavispedro/DocScrutinizer, mwkn.net02:19
javispedrothere's already a overclocking item02:19
GeneralAntillesFrom last week?02:20
javispedrothe one where he talks about the "engineer extraordinaire"02:20
LiraNunawhat's with all the overclocking talk today02:20
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, that there is.02:20
GeneralAntillesWe were shooting for /. dupedom02:20
GeneralAntillesToo bad.02:20
javispedroI guess that means instant success!02:21
GeneralAntillesWell, I guess I'll just bind that to an autoreply if anybody mentions overclocking in here. ;)02:21
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javispedrono, it's not me being an idiot: I don't have my cloak!02:22
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jaeki presume it must be possible to hack a cable to act like a headset?02:23
javispedrowouldn't you break something if you connect a speaker out into a mic in?02:23
SpeedEviljaek: yes, you can do that02:23
SpeedEviljaek: IIRC the input ADC is very low quality though02:24
SpeedEviljaek: more voice than hifi, and mono only02:24
jaekman that sucks, it would have been nice to use the n900 as an effects box02:24
jaekguitar -> n900 -> a2dp out02:25
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SpeedEviljaek: there are bluetooth audio in devices02:26
jaekthen you cant stream the output to another a2dp device02:26
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: I vote or that02:27
jaekdue to bandwidth restrictions02:27
jaekon a2dp02:27
SpeedEvil_why not?02:27
SpeedEvil_also latency may be bad.02:28
jaekyou cant even use a bluetooth mouse + a2dp at the same time let alone two a2dp streams02:28
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: [2010-04-11 18:21:59] * DocScrutinizer sets up autokickban on regex '.* safe .* OC .*' and '.* OC .* safe .*'02:28
SpeedEvil_you could use it as a drumkit.02:28
SpeedEvil_with the accel picking up the sticks.02:28
jaekthere is no usb host mode, right?02:29
jaekif there was i could just plugin a usb audio device02:29
SpeedEvil_Is it safe to watch the OC at work?02:29
SpeedEvil_not yet.02:29
LiraNunassvb, what is vbsl? (intrinsics call it "Bit Selection")02:29
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SpeedEvil_usb host is a maybe02:29
SpeedEvil_nobody has gotten it working.02:30
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, seriously? lol02:30
javispedroDocScrutinizer: 0v3rcl0ck1n6 15 54f3 4nd rul35 y0u l00z3r5 1'm 3v1l h4ck3r02:30
jaekif the n900 did have a host mode the device would instantly become 100x more useful (for hackers)02:30
* MohammadAG sighs with relief02:30
jaekdidnt all of the prior devices have host mode?02:30
Gh0styin some description online i read it should be possible02:30
Gh0stybut you need a special cable02:30
Gh0styperhaps the firmware does not support it yet?02:31
ssvbLiraNuna: it can be used for making code branchless02:31
DocScrutinizerjaek: we're working on that02:31
MohammadAGjaek, yes they did, but they didn't use the USB port for charging02:31
LiraNunassvb, is it like cmpps in SSE?02:31
jacekowskisymbian phones are arm based as well?02:31
DocScrutinizerand no, you don't even need a special cable probably02:32
Gh0styoh rly :p02:32
Gh0stythats nice :)02:32
Gh0stybut there are a lot of features missing in the phone :(02:32
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ssvbLiraNuna: well, there are comparison instructions which write either all zeros or all ones to the destination register depending on the result, these can be used as bit masks for selection02:32
Gh0stymore profiles, switch profiles based on schedules and cell locations02:32
SpeedEvil_Gh0sty: for some, it's fine as is.02:33
LiraNunassvb, so I can AND for selection?02:33
Gh0stySpeedEvil_: well if i compare02:33
ssvbLiraNuna: branches based on NEON values are *very* expensive, this is a bad thing in cortex-a802:33
LiraNunassvb, in SSE, comparison returns a mask in form of 0000 and FFFF02:33
Gh0stythis device cost me 550 eur and does not have some features my e65 has02:33
Gh0stywhich cost around 150 at the time02:33
SpeedEvil_Gh0sty: for example, I've recieved one call, made 20 texts over the time I've had it.02:34
ssvbLiraNuna: yes, you can, but bit selection is a bit more flexible02:34
LiraNunassvb, care to give me an example? (can be impractical)02:34
Gh0styi made one call and zero texts02:34
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wolf^yes, and it doesn't have functionality of a 0.50$ pen02:34
Gh0stybut then again only have it like 3 days :p02:34
SpeedEvil_Gh0sty: 4 months?02:34
Gh0stylol ok02:34
Gh0stythen you did not need a phone02:35
Gh0stybut a internet tablet :p02:35
DocScrutinizerwolf^: ;-D ++02:35
SpeedEvil_well - I did need an emergencies phone too.02:35
SpeedEvil_but, yes.02:35
Gh0stywhere can we put feature requests?02:36
SpeedEvil_brainstorm02:36 ?02:36
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ssvbLiraNuna: well, for example for implementing getting the maximum value for each element between two vectors (even though this operation has its own instruction), that would be one comparioson and selection02:38
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LiraNunassvb, how is it different than vceq and friends?02:39
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ssvbLiraNuna: vceq is a comparison instruction which constructs mask02:40
ShadowJKheh, playing mp3 and xchat, cpu never drops below 500MHz... hooray gtk and mafw/gstreamer02:40
LiraNunassvb, how is the mask generated for vbsl?02:40
LiraNunaor used02:40
ssvbLiraNuna: with all the same vceq instruction for example02:41
SpeedEvilShadowJK: odd02:41
SplasPoodHrm, if I have a widget that fails to show up when selected from the add widget menu, where would I go to debug that (logs..?)02:42
jacekowskibtw. why are they modyfing kernels to overclock it02:43
jacekowskias it is possible to talk to hardware directly02:43
jacekowskior even modify kernel on the fly02:43
ssvbLiraNuna: don't let the bits confuse you, it is perfectly fine also for 8, 16, 32 bit data02:43
LiraNunassvb, it's not confusing, it's something SSE does not have02:44
LiraNunaI just seek to understand it02:44
LiraNunaI'm trying to port my SSE math library to NEON02:44
ssvbLiraNuna: I guess it was just simple to implement this instruction to operate on bit level, and it is a bit more flexible than inventing something that would be operating per element02:45
SpeedEvilSplasPood: check other desktops - also - it can appear under stuff02:46
ssvbLiraNuna: even if nobody would actually use real selection at bit granularity02:46
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LiraNunassvb, it's like AND then?02:46
LiraNunabit selection usually means AND :P02:46
ssvbLiraNuna: yes, except in some cases it replaces AND/OR pair02:47
ssvbso it may save some instructions02:47
LiraNunaah, I see02:47
LiraNunaI think I understand what it does02:47
LiraNunathank you02:47
SplasPoodSpeedEvil: I'll take another look... beyond that tho.. any way to see a log of stuff starting, etc?02:47
LiraNunassvb, I love the multiply-add/sub instructions02:48
ssvbLiraNuna: and NEON has a "shift with insert" instruction, it can also help to eliminate some AND/OR stuff02:48
SpeedEvilSplasPood: unsure02:48
ssvbLiraNuna: vector long multiplication are quite nice02:49
LiraNunaNEON looks very fun02:49
LiraNunatoo bad it's annoyingly undocumented :(02:49
ssvbLiraNuna: it's well documented in ARM ARM02:49
LiraNunassvb, I want portable code, and I'm already familiar with the way GCC spews intrinsics02:50
LiraNunaso I prefer no inline asm02:50
SpeedEvilShadowJK: why does xchat + mp3 use lots more than either?02:50
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ssvbLiraNuna: intrinsics are just confusing, I never got into getting familiar with them just because the compiler usually generates awful code :)02:50
LiraNunassvb, in 4.2.1 they ARE awful02:51
ssvb4.5.0 is not much better02:51
LiraNuna4.4.3 is what I'm using02:51
LiraNunabut yeah, at least it doesn't ICEs02:51
infobotLiraNuna meant: but yeah, at leat it doesn't ICEs02:51
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LiraNunassvb, intrinsics -> SSE code in GCC works VERY well02:53
LiraNunaI believe GCC's core for them is the same, since it recognizes both as vs4f02:54
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LiraNunafor now I'm only playing with float32x4_t (.f32 opcodes)02:54
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ssvbLiraNuna: x86 is usually out-of-order, so it's compensating compiler stupidity a lot :)02:54
LiraNunait's quite good02:55
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LiraNunassvb, I wrote a 'vec4' class that will do a lot of optimized operations for the programmer even if the programmer does awful mistakes02:57
LiraNunassvb, I would like to have that class for NEON as well02:58
LiraNunassvb, that's why I am confident in GCC's code generation abilities :)02:58
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ssvbLiraNuna: don't forget to report "missing-optimization" bugs to gcc if you notice something strange :)02:59
LiraNunassvb, I did!02:59
povbotBug 43147: was not found.02:59
LiraNunahaha, it tries to look for a maemo bug I take it?03:00
ssvbyeah, stupid bot03:00
LiraNunassvb, see that last part of GIMPLE?03:00
LiraNunassvb, GCC treats it as V4SF03:00
LiraNunait treats NEON (float32x4_t) the same way03:01
LiraNunaso I am inclined to believe that it'll generate the same optimizations available for SSE03:01
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ssvbLiraNuna: yes, thanks for reporting this, I believe it helps to make gcc better in the long run03:02
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LiraNunassvb, I would LOVE to see this implemented03:03
LiraNunacurrently I use a template to merge masks03:03
ssvbLiraNuna: I also reported this bug:
povbotBug 43364: was not found.03:03
LiraNunaI can do vec.xxyy.wwww.zwxy and they will all be merged into one shufps03:03
LiraNunaoh wow03:04
LiraNunawell, you could use vld1 directly03:05
LiraNunathere's an intrinsic for that03:05
LiraNunagood thing it uses vst1.32 though03:07
ssvbLiraNuna: it's just an example, I would like to load that value either from memory, or just put a single floating point value into a vector from a register03:08
LiraNunassvb, yeah I understand03:08
povbotBug 1: test - ignore it03:11
povbotBug 1: test - ignore it03:11
javispedropython url parser would choke on that one03:11
MohammadAGbuzilla show_bug.cgi?id=103:11
MohammadAGbugzilla show_bug.cgi?id=103:11
LiraNunawhy don't you actually show the title of the page? it should work03:11
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MohammadAGit's not that stupid lol03:12
povbotBug 1: test - ignore it03:12
LiraNunayes it is03:12
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, sorry misread C3 as 50003:13
* SpeedEvil shuns ShadowJK with a coconut.03:14
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DocScrutinizerbug 103:20
povbotBug test - ignore it03:20
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DocScrutinizer #103:21
DocScrutinizer 103:22
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o javispedro03:22
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, can you try to bug X-Fade about it in the morning?03:22
javispedroabout it is, about the autobuilder?03:22
javispedroor about pr1.2?03:23
GeneralAntillesThe least important thing of the bunch.03:23
javispedroyes, I forgot for a moment03:23
DocScrutinizernah, I'll keep mine03:23
* javispedro castigates himself for forgetting about the most important thing, cloaks03:24
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javispedrohey, I still had op? damn.03:24
MohammadAG<javispedro> /kickall03:25
GeneralAntillesWe're going to get DocScrutinizer the "Maemo/community/angryoldman" cloak.03:25
MohammadAGtsk tsk tsk, you even got the command wrong :P03:25
MohammadAGhow about maemo/community/overclocker cloak :P03:25
MohammadAG+the *03:26
DocScrutinizergreat match for a kickban03:26
javispedrono, might act as a easy target03:26
MohammadAGwindow was minimized lol03:30
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, bug #940703:37
povbotBug Browser: Do not show fullscreen button when scrolling with the keyboard03:37
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, bug #989603:37
povbotBug Update IRC cloaks for new council03:37
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* javispedro dutifully votes03:38
GeneralAntillesWhat the hell x-server were we using in Diablo?03:38
javispedroxomap, based on kdrive03:38
GeneralAntillesAh, right, thanks.03:38
* GeneralAntilles shakes his head and hears rusty bolts rattle around.03:39
* javispedro gets another little haiku courtesy of his favourite skype spammer03:39
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javispedropeople can really for adwords keywords like "citrix doesn't work" and "citrix doesn't print"03:48
javispedro*pay for03:48
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GeneralAntillesNeed more editors. . . .03:54
ebzzry__Hi! Is there a way for Pidgin to hook into Maemo's notification system, e.g. blinking led on new message03:54
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GeneralAntillesTelepathy Extras works better in general.03:55
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ebzzry__For many reasons, I want to use Pidgin. The built-in messaging system, is unreliable at best.03:57
povbotBug 9897: Proximity sensor not disabled when using headset in a call03:59
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MohammadAG<GeneralAntilles> Need more editors. . . .04:01
MohammadAGeditors as in text editors? or bloggers?04:01
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MohammadAGoh ok04:02
dandieseli've got a blank screen on my n900 (after flashing) and I'm guessing it's the little ribbon connecting the screen , am i invalidating my warranty if I open the device yes?04:03
GeneralAntillesAre you sure it's not just busy doing something weird?04:03
dandieselalso..if the ribbon is loose.. will this affect the performance of the TV-out?04:03
GeneralAntillesHave you popped the battery?04:03
GeneralAntillesTV-out is on a different lead.04:03
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dandieselno it's been blank for 24 hours now I've tried everything.. thread is here
dandieselTV-out doesn't work either though, black and white lines intermittently and just a black screen04:04
javispedrocalling DocScrutinizer to the scene04:04
javispedrois this something like what happened to yours?04:04
* GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk at
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GeneralAntillesdandiesel, sounds like an excellent case for a warranty fix. ;)04:05
GeneralAntillesdandiesel, I'll let the engineers in the room chime in, though.04:05
dandieselyeah it's certainly looking that way, generalAntilles04:05
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dandieselThanks for the help all, i'll send it off for repair , nite!04:06
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javispedrooh, another forum to monitor?04:08
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: (TV-out) well, here I get a black LCD and weird patterns on AV same time04:08
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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, sadly, yes.04:08
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: heh exactly04:08
GeneralAntillesOne with broken as hell username capitalization just like, too.04:08
javispedroDocScrutinizer: so not such an uncommon thing04:09
DocScrutinizerand my last suspect - main FPC04:09
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DocScrutinizerfunny though he said he got black+white stripes, well maybe NTSC vs PAL issue04:10
lcukjavispedro, blood red?04:11
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javispedrolcuk: something spooky :)04:11
* DocScrutinizer finally considers disassembling the LCD half as well04:11
DocScrutinizerso seems like I'm in peace with my world once again. Not me who caused it, basically.04:12
* DocScrutinizer polishes his Senior-EE batch04:13
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, and warranty? :P04:13
DocScrutinizerwarranty been void when I did these pics, no?04:14
javispedroI guess they could detect he opened it.04:14
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, what's your plan to fix it, then?04:15
DocScrutinizernah, I'll first go check the maintenance manual on details about replacment of main-FPC04:15
javispedro"beyond economical repair"?04:16
DocScrutinizerthen I'll either give it to paid repair, or I get proper sparepart and do the fix myself04:16
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* javispedro ponders if will ever convert into a hacker-place or will skip that stage and instead go straight to user forum04:18
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DocScrutinizernah, nix 'beyond economical' - actually replacing main-FPC should be rather affordable and a quite frequent cause of failure04:18
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DocScrutinizererr break of FPC the cause, not replacement ;-P04:19
* DocScrutinizer imagines all sorts of "my creditcard slipped in between" sorts of misshaps04:20
* javispedro nearly pissed04:20
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DocScrutinizerhas any forum ever been a hacker-place?04:21
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javispedrowell... exaggerating a bit.04:22
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, to a certain extent, yes.04:23
DocScrutinizermy bet is it'll go straigt all the way to tmo-madness04:23
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GeneralAntillesThe N900 really brought the overall level of sanity down, though. ;)04:24
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DocScrutinizerhnn a pity I missed those good ol' times04:25
* MohammadAG feels the same04:25
DocScrutinizerwas just too happy with my diablo :-P04:25
MohammadAGdidn't know Maemo was linux :)04:25
GeneralAntillesI figure you can have success which brings users, and a lot of noise, but also money and productive things04:25
GeneralAntillesor you can have your little hacker club but eventually fade away into oblivion.04:26
* GeneralAntilles probably would prefer the later.04:26
javispedroor you can have both04:26
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: /join #openmoko-cdevel ;-P04:26
* GeneralAntilles watches as Nokia drifts farther and farther away from a devices which are actually interesting and useful.04:26
MohammadAGI'm actually interested if the N950 (if that's what it's getting called) can run Maemo 504:27
javispedroha, as much as I were into running Diablo on the N900?04:27
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GeneralAntillesCapacitive = fail04:28
MohammadAGjavispedro, well that's technically impossible (at least without major changes) since Diablo was for OMAP2 and the N900 has OMAP304:28
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, +1 on that04:28
MohammadAGif they kill the keyboard I'm not upgrading04:28
DocScrutinizerI know one thing for sure - I am *not* interested in N95004:28
MohammadAGor downgrading in that case04:28
lcukcapacitive = different04:28
javispedroMohammadAG: if you go on that level, everything will need changes...04:28
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javispedroas it is, you cannot do a "universal" kernel build.04:29
MohammadAGjavispedro, build a kernel from scratch then04:29
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javispedrothen you could as well put diablo04:29
MohammadAGI'll get diablo running, you build the kernel04:30
MohammadAGdeal? :P04:30
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it's fail for me.04:30
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I can't stand it in the slightest.04:30
javispedroit's not like most of it requires an exact kernel version (even though I know of a certain component at least that does)04:30
GeneralAntillesWhether it works for other people or not is irrelevant to me when I am given no other choices.04:30
javispedro"other choices" is a good question04:30
* GeneralAntilles would love to have a perfect world of To Each His Own here, but Nokia's dead set on preventing that.04:31
MohammadAGwould be cool if Nokia sold the "N950" as N950c and N950r04:31
lcukisnt that the meego route - since we have a perfectly capable device in the n90004:31
GeneralAntilles"Thanks for helping us get this platform where it is today, now kindly take your money and screw off!"04:31
MohammadAGresistive and capacitive options04:31
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, indeed.04:31
GeneralAntillesIt's not like it'd be particularly difficult04:31
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: yep, with and without hw-kbd04:32
javispedroin fact we have a few "perfect capable devices", all of the nits04:32
GeneralAntillesand it would mean to abandoning a large portion of their market.04:32
lcukbuild your own hardware set :)04:32
javispedrobut who wants them now? :)04:32
lcukwalk into a store and choose components off the shelf04:32
ml-mobileis there something in particular preventing a .33 kernel for the N90004:32
DocScrutinizerand with a 23600mAh battery for the nerds04:32
DocScrutinizeras an option04:32
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I was thinking that too, but both with a hw keyboard would be better than no keyboard04:32
javispedro23600 mAh battery.04:32
MohammadAGVirtual keyboards just don't work04:32
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javispedroI want one of those.04:32
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* MohammadAG wants a nuclear battery04:33
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: 2libs, size of 7 N90004:33
MohammadAGno terrorism intended :P04:33
* javispedro envisions the Nokia Internet Car-Sized Tablet"04:33
lcuki want a flexible oled skin over the top of hw keyboard04:33
MohammadAGI want an i7 Maemo device04:33
lcukproper haptics and reconfigurable04:33
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, virtual keyboards work fine.04:33
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, I was hitting 40-60 wpm on my 770 and N800.04:34
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, not for everything04:34
javispedroI want the fountain of eternal youth. The holy grail will also suffice.04:34
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GeneralAntillesIt's just a matter of having a good implementation and a fair amount of practice.04:34
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, not sure about the N800, but the N900's is broken04:34
lcukand i need a holiday too04:34
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, and make it for under $500, please.04:34
MohammadAGtry to use it in terminal...04:34
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, yes, it is.04:34
DocScrutinizerI want a flexible OLED screen of 33', rolled up inside the pensized phone04:34
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, it's a huge regression, in fact.04:34
MohammadAGwell I never had an N80004:34
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, but Nokia doesn't test anything that isn't directly applicable to the latest product.04:34
javispedroGeneralAntilles: actually, that's a good point. Price is the current dealbreaker for higher platform expansion.04:35
MohammadAGfor some reason I thought Maemo was some proprierty OS04:35
lcukGeneralAntilles, you were amazing with your n800 kb04:35
* MohammadAG corrects typos04:35
lcukfor irc i think you were the fastest04:35
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, Nokia needs to stop pussy-footing around with Linux platforms.04:35
lcukkhertan did similar for coding04:35
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* lcuk could never use vkb04:35
GeneralAntillesAnssi's Nokia World keynote last year is indicative of the sickness which may bring the company down in the long run.04:35
MohammadAGI can reach 30 words per second on the N900 keyboard04:35
MohammadAGbut it's just broken04:35
MohammadAGso I turned it off04:35
lcukjavispedro, how did your gsoc application go so far04:36
* javispedro goes watch it04:36
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, you're applying as a student?04:36
lcukno GeneralAntilles - he applied for the janiters assistant role04:37
lcuk(yes he did04:37
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I'd figure he'd be better off as a mentor. ;)04:37
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javispedrohm.. the application is gone. *calmly things it must be some weirdo temporary issue before yelling in panic*04:38
GeneralAntillesVDVsx says, "javispedro? I hate that guy!"04:38
javispedroGeneralAntilles: i applied as a student since this my last year as one :P (and still never applied...)04:39
MohammadAGkov, I'm off, a bit late for me (4:39), so.. ttyl :)04:40
lcukmee to04:40
lcuk\o nn maemo04:40
* javispedro looks at the time. god04:40
MohammadAGNight :)04:40
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GeneralAntillesWee, only 11 more stories to go!04:41
* javispedro has had its own share of doubts about gsoc, i even mailed the program manager...04:41
DocScrutinizerbest time of the night, o.O04:41
javispedroyou'll not get rid of me so easily!04:41
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javispedrowhere's that op role when you need it04:41
javispedrook ok I'll leave you to your endeavors, good night.04:43
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EbzzryHi! Is there a pdf viewer in the repos that supports portait mode viewing?04:46
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DocScrutinizertry evince04:51
DocScrutinizerI can't check right now, but I guess it knows portrait mode aka rotate-left/right04:52
DocScrutinizerthe UI-widgets won't rotate though04:52
EbzzryDocScrutinizer: Ok04:52
EbzzryDocScrutinizer: Evince is in -devel right?04:53
DocScrutinizernot sure, but one of those04:53
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* DocScrutinizer mumbles swearwords about FlatPlasticCables and Board2Board-connectors04:55
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GeneralAntilles4 more. . . .05:02
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b-man17GeneralAntilles: hm?05:03
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ds3wonder if anyone has looked into adding waypoints to GPSjinni05:05
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LiraNunassvb, do you see anything wrong with this code?
LiraNunaoptimization wise, not logic05:13
ptl_demands_PR12Ebzzry: evince does05:14
Ebzzryptl_demands_PR12: thanks05:14
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b-man17does the kexec-tools package in extras-testing actually work??05:18
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dmj726_n900is anyone using pidgin to for irc on the n900?05:23
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DocScrutinizereeeek pidgin05:24
dmj726_n900I'd like to verify some bugs I experience.05:24
DocScrutinizerxchat ftw05:24
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DocScrutinizerreminds me to unvoice all users with full-username 'purple'05:25
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EbzzryHow do I activate evince's portrait mode, aside of course from using the rotate operations?05:34
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LiraNunadoes the N900 use OpenMAX?05:39
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ShadowJKLiraNuna, I think so.. /lib/dsp/ ?05:42
LiraNunaah awesome05:42
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dmj726_n900so nobody uses pidgin for irc on maemo?05:43
LiraNunaeew no, I just ssh to my server and attach my irssi screen05:44
danielsilvadmj726_n900: i'm using pidgin right now05:44
danielsilvadmj726_n900: oh wait... but on my laptop :p05:44
Ebzzrydmj726_n900: maybe if it notifies like telepathy, as I mentioned earlier, I'd use it.05:45
dmj726_n900it seems to work quite well, one bug aside.05:45
Ebzzryirssi is a very good irc client, but having scrolling up is a pain.05:45
infobotEbzzry meant: irssi is a very good irc client, but  scrolling up is a pain.05:46
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dmj726_n900pidgin seems to occassionally open random links in microb when scrolling.05:46
ShadowJKheh, amusingly I prefer irssi over xchat for scroling up on n90005:46
EbzzryI myself use xchat on maemo.05:46
LiraNunaxchat on maemo isn't my cup of tea05:47
LiraNunaI use xchat on my desktop though05:47
EbzzryShadowJK: how do you scroll?05:47
LiraNunait's just not hildonized enough for me05:47
dmj726_n900only seems to happen in certain cases though and i wanted to see if anyone could replicate it.05:47
ShadowJKI press pageup?05:47
dmj726_n900pidgin has nice kinetic scrolling.05:47
EbzzryLiraNuna: using say irssi, how would you easily switch server contexts?05:48
ptl_demands_PR12I use irssi on my server with irssi-proxy now05:48
ptl_demands_PR12and then I connect to it with whatever I feel appropriate, I am on kvirc right now :)05:48
ShadowJKin xchat I have to use scrollbar05:48
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ptl_demands_PR12I've setup my N900 xchat to automatically connect to it05:48
LiraNunaEbzzry, /win 1, Ctrl+X05:48
ptl_demands_PR12other times I go through the terminal05:48
LiraNuna<ptl_demands_PR12> I use irssi on my server with irssi-proxy now05:48
EbzzryLiraNuna: that's a lot of keypresses, compared to a tap with xchat.05:49
LiraNunaI know05:49
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LiraNunaI prefer xchat to irssi, however xchat maemo is horrible05:49
ShadowJKesc 1 instead of /win 1 works05:49
EbzzryLiraNuna: in what ways is it horrible?05:49
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LiraNunatoo many to list05:50
* ShadowJK uses desktop .conf05:51
ShadowJKinstead of the default maemo .conf05:52
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dmj726_n900still, have any of you attempted to use pidgin for irc on the n900?05:52
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Ebzzrydmj726_n900: what are you trying to get at?05:54
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dmj726_n900I'm trying to see if anyone can reproduce the bug I mentioned.05:55
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dmj726_n900connect to a high volume irc channel like #maemo05:58
dmj726_n900leave it open for a while05:59
dmj726_n900then try scrolling through it some.  See if microb opens any links you didn't touch.05:59
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Ebzzrydmj726_n900: hmm06:00
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ptl_demands_PR12 if anyone is trying to test this bug :)06:09
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LiraNunameh, another ICE06:10
povbotBug 43722: was not found.06:10
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dmj726_n900while we're waiting for the bug to manifest, anyone looked at the theorarm project goggle seems to be funding?06:14
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Ken-Young"su gainroot" just stopped sorking on my N900, after having worked for months.   Now it give the error message "su: must be suid to work properly".   Does anyone know what has gone wrong, and how to fix it?06:49
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infobotKen-Young meant: "su gainroot" just stopped working on my N900, after having worked for months.   Now it give the error message "su: must be suid to work properly".   Does anyone know what has gone wrong, and how to fix it?06:50
microlithtype "root" instead06:51
DocScrutinizeruse sudo gainroot06:51
DocScrutinizeror just root06:51
Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, Oh, you're right.   I forgot.  Thanks!06:51
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Ken-Youngmicrolith, That works too.   Thanks!06:52
Ken-YoungI guess it's a good sign that I haven't had to become root in a while.06:54
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korhojoahmm. first day with xlv kernel. let's see hwo this goes07:06
korhojoaaw. damn.07:07
infobotkorhojoa meant: aw. failure.07:07
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ssvbLiraNuna: "mov r3, #0" + "vdup.32 q9, r3" -> "veor.32 q9, q9, q9"07:33
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ssvbLiraNuna: "vmvn q9, q8" + "vand q8, q8, q9" -> "vbic"07:34
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ssvbLiraNuna: or even  "mov r3, #0" + "vdup.32 q9, r3" + "vceq.f32 q8, q8, q9" -> "vceq.f32 q8, q8, #0"07:36
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LiraNunassvb, oh yeah! bit clear!08:09
LiraNunathis is 1:1 SSE port so there's no bit clear08:09
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LiraNuna<ssvb> LiraNuna: "mov r3, #0" + "vdup.32 q9, r3" -> "veor.32 q9, q9, q9"08:10
LiraNunaisn't that a nop08:10
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ssvbLiraNuna: "eor" == "xor" from x8608:11
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LiraNunabut wait, I didn't asign zero08:12
LiraNunaweird it's not using it itself08:12
ssvbalso zero can be used as immediate operand for comparison, there is no need to put it into a register08:13
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LiraNunassvb, oh nice08:15
LiraNunanot what the intrinsics show...08:15
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shinkamuiis that video of N900s meego legit?08:20
shinkamuiif so, thats a little exciting, though pretty boring that it does absolutely nothing right now but a console shell08:20
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LiraNunashinkamui, it's legit since meego was released08:21
shinkamuiLiraNuna, have you seen the video?08:22
LiraNunathis one?
shinkamuithats the one08:23
LiraNunalooks legit08:23
LiraNunameego was released on 31st08:23
shinkamuiat least from the video08:24
shinkamuiit would appear that X isn't working08:24
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shinkamuior part of the distribution yet08:24
shinkamuior that guy just didn't know what he was doing, I dont know for sure08:24
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dmj726_n900meego is command line only right now.08:25
shinkamuihih i dmj726_n90008:25
shinkamuiok, its real late, off to bed08:25
dmj726_n900hi shinkamui08:25
shinkamuilaters guys08:25
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crashanddieGOD I'M SO FECKIN BORED08:26
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crashanddieI know what I can do!08:26
crashanddieKick people for fun!08:27
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LiraNunaoh... kay08:28
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LiraNunassvb, GCC doesn't use eor for vdup 0, wtf?08:33
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LiraNunassvb, it does for SSE <_<08:33
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JaffaMorning all08:42
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rockum new here just passin through08:47
RST38hmoorning indeed08:47
crashanddiemorning Jaffa08:49
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ptlPR1.2 yet?09:00
ptljust soft-trolling, nevermind09:00
ech0Asusyay for 33gb downloads...09:02
dmj726_n900windows 8 image?09:02
ech0Asusrainbow table09:03
swc|666heh, i'm rsyncing a mysql db 2x that size right now :)09:04
ech0Asusneed a dictionary figured might as well just go with hex..09:04
crashanddieswc|666: that must run like a dog09:05
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ech0Asusis there a website you could upload a handshake packet to and have it run aircrack on it?09:06
crashanddiewep or wpa?09:06
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crashanddienot anymore09:07
crashanddiethere were a couple09:07
crashanddiebut they were brought down due to abuse09:07
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crashanddiewell, abuse being the new way of saying "Crap, we can't handle the load"09:07
ech0Asuslol sucks09:07
swc|666crashanddie, it runs well09:07
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ech0Asusnow we just have to carry around 33gb of rainbow tables? lol09:07
crashanddieech0Asus: Though it'd be interesting to see if it would be possible to harvest the power of GAE and other cloud services for something like that09:08
crashanddieech0Asus: that's what bittorrent is for09:08
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ech0Asusgoing to have to edit my partitions to fit this on my netbook lol09:09
crashanddieech0Asus: check if this one is still online (can't access it from work)
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ech0Asushey thats cool they do it for 10 bucks09:11
crashanddieah, so he implemented the payment plan09:11
crashanddiedid he modify it to only charge upon success?09:11
crashanddiehe had only something like 33% success rate09:11
ech0Asusthats not bad i mean that or wait till u can access 33gb of rainbow tables...09:11
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ech0Asusthx for that link bookmarked :)09:13
crashanddieech0Asus: there's also this one: (again, no idea if still online)09:13
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swc|666i know the dude that runs
swc|666its still up and better than moxie marlinspike's cloud cracker09:15
swc|666and cheaper :)09:15
ech0Asusrofl wonder how my netbook is going to act with this 33gb file being opened with aircrack09:16
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swc|666prolly not too well09:18
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ech0Asusyeah didn't think so09:18
ech0Asusany suggestions for a portable dictionary?09:18
swc|666that method is sloooow anyways09:18
DocScrutinizerhow would I start a mediaplayer video via cmdline?09:19
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ech0Asusi have the handshake packet and have used the tools a lot on wep but i just need a dictionary lol09:19
netwwhat's the paket encrypt09:20
netwwep wpa wpa209:20
ech0Asuserm one i just did was wpa09:20
netwchek the first picture09:21
netwfor wep09:21
netwit's easy09:21
netwfor wpa y need rainbow tables09:21
ech0Asusyeah 33gb is downloading lol09:21
netw2 x 3309:22
netwplus bonus 1 or 5-6 gig09:22
ech0Asusi got the renderlab one downloading09:22
netw1 of 5or609:22
netwi thing it's not worthy09:23
netwuse something like SET against the target09:23
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ptlDocScrutinizer: there has been a maemo mailing list discussion about it, but I have not read it. I'll look into it, hold on.09:25
DocScrutinizerptl: thanks09:25
ptldbus-send /com/nokia/mediaplayer string:file:///home/user/MyDocs/.videos/9.mp409:26
ptlthis is it09:26
ptlbtw, lemme verify if it's in the Phone control page09:27
ptlit is...09:28
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* DocScrutinizer is idiot09:28
DocScrutinizerthought I'll test the AV while doing a tar backup of all /home09:29
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DocScrutinizerprobably mediaplayer isn't quite happy with the already 100% cpu, before even any mpeg decoding takes place09:30
DocScrutinizernow syslog eats another 20% share of cpu :-S09:31
DocScrutinizer[ 5068.331756] omapdss DISPC error: GFX_FIFO_UNDERFLOW09:31
DocScrutinizeryou might call it a bug in design09:32
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crashanddieYay, I got a +5 funny on /.!09:35
DocScrutinizer  MUHAHAAA09:36
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DocScrutinizerCPU: 49.7% usr 40.9% sys  0.0% nice  0.0% idle  0.0% io  9.3% irq  0.0% softirq09:37
DocScrutinizerLoad average: 3.41 3.27 3.0209:37
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DocScrutinizerI *HATE* BUSYBOX09:43
DocScrutinizerno 'kill' in top09:43
swc|666that other top prg has it09:44
swc|666htop or something09:44
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ptlhtop is much better than top but also uses lots more CPU09:45
ptlI prefer atop, that has lots of other interesting statistics and a few good options.09:45
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ptlhey FlavioFerreiraBR, woke up early?09:45
ptlnot even 4 o'clock here in Brazil09:46
ptl4 in the morning09:46
DocScrutinizeranyway a killall mediaplayer did it09:46
ptlI don't like killall because of solaris. :P09:46
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ptlI prefer pkill, process kill. It's the same use, you kill a process by name.,09:46
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ptland it's there, in busybox.09:47
ech0Asuserm apt-get install *09:47
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ptlapt-get install * will just try to apt-get install the names of the files in the current directory. Won't work, usually.09:48
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DocScrutinizerI start to doubt the brilliance of the idea tor tar /home09:48
ptlapt-get install '*' wouldn't work if there is any package with 'conflicts:' in the repositories you use.09:48
ech0Asusapt-get install k*09:49
DocScrutinizerapt-get install '*'09:49
ech0Asusrofl im watchin asian dudes play table tenis they are so into it09:49
ptlech0Asus: try and use single or double quotes, because if there is any file beginning with k on the current directories, your command would expand to it.09:49
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ptlech0Asus: to understand what I mean, try echo *09:50
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ptlwell... these are process identifiers. weird09:55
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DocScrutinizer745, 757, 781 video109:55
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ptlbut are you using htop?09:57
ptltry using ps09:57
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ptlok, from using htop I also see three entries for video device09:57
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ptlbut... that's weird. Now I try ps -ef, I see 2 processes only. Then I try ps -eLf to see threads too, and I still see two processes. I can't get the same result as htop.10:00
DocScrutinizerprobably threads. htop is weird10:00
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DocScrutinizerI'd curse FUCKIN BUSYBOX10:02
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ptltried to get by pid10:02
ptlthat's really weird10:03
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ptlonly the first process appears, the others don't10:03
DocScrutinizermessybox ps is weird10:03
DocScrutinizers/weird/braindead crap10:03
ptlpstree shows it10:04
ptltry it, pstree -Acp10:04
ptlyou can grep omap3 if you wish10:04
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DocScrutinizerpstree: not found10:04
ptlbut I wonder why ps -eLf does not shows these threads10:04
ptl[root@n900 /root]% dpkg -S `which pstree`10:05
ptlpsmisc: /usr/bin/pstree10:05
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DocScrutinizer~nuke busybox10:05
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* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at busybox ... B☢☢M!10:05
ptlapt-get install psmisc10:05
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ps --help10:05
DocScrutinizerBusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian multi-call binary10:05
ptlthat explains it.10:07
DocScrutinizerI *HATE* BUSYBOX10:08
ptlthe psmisc package has a manpage in it10:08
DocScrutinizercool, alas we got no mandb10:08
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ptlit's only listed in the package10:09
ptlit was not installed. Doh10:09
ptlmaybe it couldn't create the /usr/share/man/man1 directory10:10
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DocScrutinizer""OHNOEEES 15MB just for *manpages*?!!?!!!!?! BUT ... we got only 32GB!""10:10
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Addison2Hey all.  :)10:11
ptlwhere can I find the "real" ps?10:11
Addison2Anyone here willing to help me out?  It might take a few minutes of your time.  I corrupted my memory card trying to partition it.10:11
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ptllet me try10:12
DocScrutinizerbeware!! coreutils are said to kill boot10:12
ptlAfter this operation, 336MB disk space will be freed.10:12
ptlit would install everything10:12
ptl*uninstall everything10:13
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ptlpractically all base packages would be uninstalled10:13
DocScrutinizerwhat? coreutils??10:13
DocScrutinizerAddison2: reformat it?10:14
Addison2Yes Doc, I reformatted it completely on my Windows XP.  I think I really goobered it somehow.10:14
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DocScrutinizerAddison2: the internal eMMC or the uSD10:14
DocScrutinizerahh on wixp10:14
Addison2It's a SanDisk 4 gig card.10:14
ptlexternal mmc10:15
DocScrutinizerso I get it youre talking bout uSd10:15
ptlreformat it with vfat filesystem type10:15
ech0Asusaddison get the boot disk for gparted and use that to format your sandisk10:15
ptlit should work10:15
ech0Asusjust be sure not to format ur xp install... lol10:15
Addison2I have gparted CD.  I restarted my computer and gparted booted just fine.  I didn't have a clue how to use it though.10:15
ech0Asuserm.. switch it to the sd disk by clicking in top right then use it to format that disk.. its pretty easy has a lot of stuff to click...10:16
Addison2If I grabbed my wife's laptop and logged back in here.  Could you walk me through the steps or find a web page for me to read?  I can't seem to find one.10:17
Addison2Oh, and gparted crashed on me because I didn't know how to even start it.  :(10:17
Addison2I'm a tool by the way.  :)10:17
* DocScrutinizer suggests (on N900 root): ~> dd if=/dev/null of=/dev/mmcblk1p1 bs=1M count=1010:18
Addison2I'm more of a simple point and click kind of guy.  This might be a tough one for me.10:19
DocScrutinizerthen remove and reinsert the uSD. N900 should ask you if you want to format it10:19
ech0Asusgparted is clickable.. i'd start clickin' that way..10:19
Addison2Well, gparted had some kind of screen asking how to boot it and I poopered all over the menus and got lost.10:20
ech0Asusthat or any other partitioning tool should work great10:20
Addison2Crap, I hate coming online and looking dumb.  :)10:20
MiXu-Is Chrome for N900 being actively developed by someone(tm)?10:20
DocScrutinizerAddison2: forget wixp10:20
DocScrutinizerAddison2: use N900 clean linux10:20
Addison2I have a N800 by the way.10:21
Addison2I'm still living in abject poverty.  :)10:21
ech0Asusi had one of those10:21
ech0Asusformat it through your file manager10:21
ech0Asushold down and it will pop up a menu10:21
crashanddieAddison2: heh10:21
ech0Asusthen u can select format10:21
DocScrutinizerAddison2: anyway, should work as well10:21
Addison2Yeah, it asked if it wanted me for the tablet to try and fix it.  That's okay then?10:21
ech0Asusn800 was cool, could hold 2 sd cards...10:22
ech0Asusyes let it fix it10:22
Addison2Okay.  Thanks.  Trying it out right now.10:22
ech0Asusit can fix it a lot better then the xp machine can10:22
ech0Asusnp man10:22
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Addison2So it's saying "Memory card is incorrectly formatted or corrupted."  So go ahead and repair?10:23
ech0Asusyour data is lost at this point on it but u can format it and use it again for other things...10:24
Addison2"Unable to repair memory card.  Format card via File manager."  Joy!  :D10:24
Addison2I never had anything on the card to begin with.10:24
ech0Asushas the card ever worked?10:25
Addison2I was trying to do crap to it so I could use Easy Debian.10:25
ech0Asusyeah easy debian is great10:25
ech0Asusinstalled it on my 900 day or so ago10:25
Addison2I wouldn't know.  :)10:25
ech0Asusanyways, try and format it via ur file manager10:26
ech0Asussorry i'm tired10:26
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jacekowskiX-Fade: repositories are broken10:28
X-Fadejacekowski: what did you do :)10:28
crashanddiejacekowski: you're broken10:28
jacekowskiX-Fade: i've sent something yesterday to free, and nothing happened10:28
Addison2Okay.  From File Manager I went to Tools -> Format memory card.  Clicked "Okay".  It said something like "Formating memory card" with a bar that never filled up.  And yeah, it didn't work.  :(10:28
jacekowskiso 6h later i've sent something to non-free10:28
jacekowskiand nothing happened as well10:29
crashanddiejacekowski: build log?10:29
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jacekowskithere is even bug reported10:29
jacekowskibug 988910:29
povbotBug Autobuilder does not upload packaged to extras-devel10:29
ech0Asusok find someone with a sd card and swap urs with theirs..10:29
ech0Asusrofl i'm goin to bed...10:30
X-FadeLooking into it.10:30
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Addison2Okay Echo.  Sounds like a great idea!  Thanks!10:30
jacekowskiit looks like there was nothing added into repo since 9th of april10:30
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X-FadeUgh, I found the issue. It is processing again now.10:33
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jacekowskiit's still building against 1.2?10:34
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DocScrutinizerthis seems will not change anytime (until 1.3 ;-P )10:36
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jacekowskiX-Fade: packages already sent are lost?10:41
dottedmagptl: have a look at docpurge package. that's why manpages aren't installed10:42
X-Fadejacekowski: of course not.10:42
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X-Fadejacekowski: It just hang while processing the queue. But that blockage is gone now and it is processing the backlog.10:44
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jacekowskibtw. i was quite amazed by 20 minutes build time10:46
X-FadeDual Quadcore Xeon helps.10:46
jacekowskidoes it have ccache?10:46
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jacekowskimhm i have 5520 here and it's not even close to 20 minutes10:48
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X-Fadejacekowski: parallel build?10:49
jacekowskiand i don't think vmware is causing that much overhead10:49
jacekowskiwell -j 2 instead of 410:49
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jacekowski( it's vm with 2 vcpus )10:49
X-Fadevmware is very bad on latency it seems.10:49
X-FadeWe had vmware at our previous isp and we had nothing but trouble.10:50
DocScrutinizerooohnoes now it rebooted in the middle of the giant tarjob10:50
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jacekowskiok, disaster10:51
jacekowski that has to go10:51
X-Fadejacekowski: I can do that.10:51
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: close bug 988910:53
povbotBug Autobuilder does not upload packaged to extras-devel10:53
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X-FadeDocScrutinizer: done10:54
RST38hjacekowski: And why exactly is it a disaster?10:55
X-FadeRST38h: 2 times the same version in 2 separate repos.10:55
jacekowski and
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jacekowskiis it possible to just send package to be built and don't import it into repository ( debug build and etc. )?10:58
X-Fadejacekowski: No, that has been mentioned before though.10:59
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ptlI've just setup a ad-hoc network for the N900 from my laptop11:15
ptljustin case11:15
ptl*just in case11:15
jacekowskii think o2 underestimated demand for joggler11:18
jacekowskii've made an order on wednesday for next day delivery11:18
jacekowskiand it's still not shipped11:18
ptlwhy is this device so hot?11:19
jacekowskiand what it can do11:19
Appiahdrop it like its hot!11:19
fralsits pretty hackable isnt it?11:19
Appiahptl: 3G , then ad-hoc wifi?11:20
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ptlAppiah: 3G, then my regular wifi (linksys router), then ad-hoc wifi11:21
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Appiahso you're connected to 3G and Wifi at the same time?11:22
ptlno, no11:22
* wired was watching some xvid series on a TV set the other day, streamed over wifi from his laptop, using the vid-out cable, on a 800mhz oc'd n900 (thank god for oc, mplayer would drop too many frames otherwise :))11:22
ptlthe N900 tries 3G first11:22
ptlI'm going to install it anytime, wired11:23
wiredwhile at the same time i tethered my 3d connection through the same (adhoc) wifi connection to my laptop11:23
ptlI'm just waiting for PR1.211:23
wiredyou have to love this device :)11:23
ptlyou bet11:23
ptlbecause the stock kernel does not11:24
ptlbtw, any of these overclocked kernels has support for full NAT?11:24
wiredyes the titan one works brilliantly11:24
ptlhmmm, cool.11:24
wiredand you can oc on demand11:24
wiredso i keep it at 600 and oc to 800 when i need it :)11:24
AppiahI been watching some series on the n90011:24
Appiahand had smooth playback11:24
wiredthat depends on the codec and bitrate :)11:25
Appiahbut I have yet try to watch something in high quailty that the n900 could not handle11:26
AppiahSo what codec and bitrate cant the n900 handle without oc wired ?11:26
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wiredAppiah: well those vids weren't anything too high, let me see if i can check it out from here11:30
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wiredVIDEO:  [XVID]  512x384  12bpp  23.976 fps  910.0 kbps (111.1 kbyte/s)11:32
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wiredthis one, using mplayer11:32
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nidOim gonna say thats mplayer, I have no trouble with those kinds of quality with the standard media player11:35
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wiredits possible11:38
wiredi'll have to test it. keep in mind i was using the tv-out, not sure if that brings some sort of penalty11:38
wiredto performance11:39
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SpeedEvil_ShadowJK: I note bq* datasheet says 20mr11:51
ShadowJKit's just an example11:52
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ShadowJKbut I did switch to 20 a week or two ago11:52
SpeedEvil_I need to measure.11:53
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SpeedEvil_too much boring shit to do.11:53
SpeedEvil_And soldering iron died.11:53
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jacekowskisome wanker is trying to dos my server12:35
crashanddie_jacekowski: http redirect
jacekowskijust ignoring him12:36
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jacekowskihe's not very good at it and cband is enough12:37
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talmaihas anyone tried PhoneGap on maemo?12:40
talmaiworks well in scratchbox x6812:40
talmaibut on the phone i get a segfault12:40
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jacekowskiit would be helpful if you could provide core dump/stack trace/anything12:42
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jacekowskibtw. what was name of that app that could create core dump without killing application?12:42
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Anss|jacekowski, gdb?12:45
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hrwheh.. n900 made one ugly thing to maemo.org12:50
hrwt.m.o is not worth reading anymore12:50
hrwtoo much crap there12:50
hrwkonttori: hi12:50
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talmaijacekowski: when running in gdb, i get this:12:54
talmaiProgram received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.12:54
talmai0x4085aa1c in QMetaObject::indexOfSignal(char const*) const () from /usr/lib/
talmai0x4085aa1c <_ZNK11QMetaObject13indexOfSignalEPKc+32>:ldrr0, [r1, #16]12:54
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Sceltkonttori hops in and out, in and out13:07
Sceltavoiding our questions13:07
lcuk2Scelt, konttori hops in and out because hes not in work at the moment13:08
lcuk2baby month13:08
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* kirma wonders if it's possible in any sensible way to maintain an informative, advanced-hacking discussion board for product sold in scale of millions without all that crap or overreaching moderation13:26
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Wolfiekirma: i guess Here Comes Everybody would tell you that13:27
Wolfiethe Clay Shirky's book13:28
kirmaI guess I've heard it being mentioned earlier too13:29
Wolfiei should order it, actually...13:29
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Wolfiethe xUnit book i'm reading is killing me13:29
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corecodekirma: increase entry difficulty13:38
corecodekirma: if you can filter 99% of the people, it is more likely that the remaining 1% are dedicated to the use of the platform.  of course, you can have dedicated trolls, but they are usually easier to ignore than the generic white noise13:40
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rom1depjacekowski: if the chromium package works, I check my dinner to be sure there is no hallucinating mushroom in it :)13:44
jacekowskirom1dep: it's working13:44
jacekowskii hope so13:44
Sceltjacekowski: sorry for the tragedy13:45
jacekowskii don't care13:45
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jacekowskithey shouldn't have tried to land on too short runway in bad conditions13:45
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Sceltsure. and they all shouldn't have been in the same airplane. but still it's awful13:46
Stskeepsjacekowski: you located around warsaw btw?13:46
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jacekowskii'm around colchester13:47
* Stskeeps ponders if there is more maemo people in warsaw13:47
jacekowskidoubt that there will be a lot of maemo people in poland13:47
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jacekowski( n900 in poland costs about average monthly salary )13:47
jacekowski+ contract13:48
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haltdefI chucked most of my first paycheck at my n900 :P13:48
haltdefworth it13:48
jacekowskirom1dep: there are some bugs in it but it's working as such13:49
rom1depjacekowski: damn, it starts... and works ! great job :)13:49
* Arkenoi bought my second n900 via "unofficial import", it saved me almost 30%13:49
jacekowskirom1dep: maemo2 version?13:49
fralsStskeeps: theres 2 (3 with yours) pins the in the "maemo" map in warszawa at least13:49
Stskeepsfrals: :nod:13:49
haltdefunofficial import?13:49
jacekowskirom1dep: from extras?13:49
rom1depjacekowski: yepp, from extras, on n900 1.113:50
jacekowskii'm surprised that it's working after so many stories of builder building broken packages13:50
Arkenoihaltdef: middle east version, they are much cheaper there13:50
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haltdefshipping didn't cancel it out?13:50
jacekowskihaltdef: why?13:50
jacekowskihaltdef: they want to sell13:50
Arkenoinope, here are guys who sell it via local internet stores13:50
rom1depI'm doing some sunspider bench :)13:50
Arkenoiso i ordered it and got it the same day13:51
jacekowskihaltdef: as long as you pay for it13:51
jacekowskiArkenoi: same day?13:51
Anss|yep, it is not cheap. if i would bought one, my girlfriend would like one too. that makes two, which would be expensive. :-|13:51
Arkenoi4 hours actually13:51
jacekowskishiping with that speed made it costs twice as much probably13:51
haltdefI stopped trying to justify my smartphone purchases a while ago :P13:51
jacekowskiwhen i order something from abroad it ussualy spends at least couple days on customs13:52
Arkenoii guess they just have some in local stock ;-)13:52
jacekowskirom1dep: i've tried it and it just got stuck at some point13:53
jacekowskirom1dep: v8 benchmark worked fine13:53
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jacekowskirom1dep: and microb got about 18 points in it13:53
jacekowskirom1dep: chrome about 10013:53
jacekowskirom1dep: opera on my laptop about 300013:53
jacekowskibut chrome can go little bit higher13:53
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jacekowskibecause current builds have disabled couple features that could make it faster13:54
jacekowskiand i'm again talking to myself13:54
rom1depI got 35s with microB, 22 with midori
rom1depthe test is running but I fear I'll have to start it again after it finishes (if it finishes) because there was apps runing behind and I received a sms (slows the test)13:55
jacekowskii mean- it went trough couple of loops before it got stuck13:56
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jacekowskiand microb failed to do complete test13:56
rom1depok, I reached the result page, 22s, starting it again...13:56
barisionelizardo: doesn't do it in the right way13:56
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jacekowskibut on tests that run average score was about 1813:56
rom1depjacekowski: 18s ?13:57
jacekowskii'm talking about v813:57
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jacekowskidifferent benchmark13:57
lizardobarisione: what you mean?13:58
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barisionelizardo: I just commented on the thread on the forum13:58
rom1depoh ok, I'm testing through sunspider for now :)13:58
barisioneyou should not use libebook directly13:58
barisionelizardo: but just libosso-abook13:58
barisioneif you just use libebook things will work in most cases but not always13:59
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jacekowskirom1dep: have you tried to benchmark microb?13:59
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rom1depjacekowski: yepp, as said before I got 35s14:00
rom1depfewer is better14:00
lizardobarisione: yes, I'm aware of that... but for some people/situations the returned information should be enough... of course you lack all the great things from abook14:01
rom1depjacekowski: I tried midori too (I guess tear would give the same score) and got 22s14:01
lizardobarisione: but if you give me a C working example I can add ctypes equivalent code to that page too :)14:01
rom1depso for now, chromium is at least as fast as the fastest browser for n900 :)14:02
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MiXu-is chrome for N900 being actively developed by someon?14:02
SpeedEvilrom1dep: you've tried fennec, microb, tear, firefox (on debian) ?14:02
MiXu-Or is it just a one-man-proof-of-concept ?14:02
rom1depjacekowski: just finished 17814.2ms : chromium is the fastest :)14:03
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rom1depSpeedEvil: I'm speaking about reasults gotten on the n900 (I don't have the sdk installed on a pc) because tear and midori are both running GtkWebKit I see no reason to try the two (but maybe will I try later) for fennec vs microB, my experience is microB is the fastest but I didn't run sunspider with fennec to be sure...14:05
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rom1depfcrozat: :)14:07
hrwfennec... mozilla should work on adding speed to it first14:07
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jacekowskirom1dep: still, it's not even close to desktop browser14:08
rom1dephrw: trace monkey is conceptually slower than other jit... let me 2s to find an interesting post about it :)14:08
SpeedEvilI have had firefox working as fast as my desktop browser.14:08
SpeedEvil(displaying from desktop)14:08
hrwrom1dep: I do not care about JS speed14:08
hrwrom1dep: fennec as such is slow14:09
jacekowskiresults on desktop are like 18 times better14:09
jacekowskiat least14:09
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SpeedEvilhrw: Not IME.14:09
SpeedEvilhrw: It tends to paint screen faster for me.14:09
SpeedEvilthe killer is lack of some features14:09
jacekowskii think o2 is having serious problem with amount of joggler orders14:10
hrwpersonally I treat microb with such care as opera mini on my e66 phone14:10
rom1depjacekowski: how could a small arm 600Mhz compete with some multi-core pc ?14:10
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hrwbrowser to be used only when I really need browser and do not have desktop available14:11
SpeedEvilas fast on mobile as desktop14:11
jacekowskii have to get gcc on my phone14:12
jacekowskiis usb networking working on windows?14:12
rom1depjacekowski: any browser running on the n900 could probably be optimized, of course, but copmaring scores obtained on n900 vs computers is a nonsence since hardware is not comparable...14:12
jacekowskii know14:12
jacekowskibut that shows how slow it is14:12
SpeedEvilpointed at /. - iceweasel renders some page content first14:13
ccookeAfternoon, all14:13
jacekowskiyou should compare time to full load14:13
SpeedEviljacekowski: I know - for benchmarking - it's not quite so good.14:13
SpeedEviljacekowski: But if you're not benchmarking, the initial load may be important14:14
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ShadowJKbesides, any optimization can be carried over to PC side and the relative speed difference remains :)14:14
jacekowskirom1dep: v8 in chrome is running native arm code14:15
jacekowskirom1dep: blah14:15
jacekowskirom1dep: it's compiling js to native arm code14:15
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jacekowskirom1dep: there are some feature that are disabled at the moment14:15
jacekowskirom1dep: and memory allocator sucks14:16
rom1depjacekowski: :) I just got 117 on google's-v8 benchmark, my atom netbook I'm typing with got 418 (dual core) so it's not that bad, it's even fastest now on n900 than firefox 1.5 years ago on my netbook...14:18
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rom1depThat's good programming, when competition btw different technologies makes software run faster (in contrary to what we see most of the time : programs getting bigger and bigger and so on, slower...)14:20
barisionelizardo: I added a C example in the thread14:20
jacekowskirom1dep: i really want to se futhark on maemo14:21
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jacekowskiand even better carkan14:22
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Termanajacekowski: Those sound like Vikings not applications14:24
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TermanaAre those even apps or are you talking about something else?14:24
wiredv8 on stock n900 browser gave me 16.5 on first run, 17.7 on second14:24
rom1depjacekowski: anyway, that'll make fennec guys angry, at it's first -unofficial- try, chromium -unoptimized- is 3 times faster than firefox...14:25
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jacekowskiTermana: it's kinda vikingish14:25
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TermanaExplains a lot then... :P14:25
jacekowskiTermana: it's name of js engine in opera14:26
jacekowskiTermana: and opera is from norawy14:26
rom1depwired: so it's more than 3x faster...14:26
wiredthen i oc'd to 800mhx and got 23.214:26
rom1depwired: no oc, 600mhz, 117 B)14:27
rom1depthat's crazy14:27
wiredwith chromium?14:27
rom1depwired: yepp14:27
wiredlet me try14:27
* wired starts chromium14:28
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jacekowskiwhat i need for usb networking?14:28
lizardobarisione: thanks :)14:29
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wired111 on first run14:30
rom1depwired: also, close microb running behind, you can easily lose 30% if chromium isn't running alone...14:30
wiredrom1dep: i didn't close it, 111 on first run :)14:30
wiredkeep in mind my chromium is running from within a gentoo chroot :P14:30
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rom1deplook at this : n900 has the fastest browsing experience :)14:31
wired112 on second run, lets try @80014:31
MiXu-jacekowski: a linux OS for PC and a modified /etc/network/interfaces iirc14:31
wiredis there a native maemo chromium build available anywhere?14:32
wired131 @ 800mhz :)14:32
rom1depwired: yepp, check extras-testing, thank to jacekowski :)14:32
wiredinteresting, so i can see the difference with my chrooted one14:32
SpeedEvilwired: what is this benchmark?14:33
wiredSpeedEvil: google's V8 javascript benchmark14:33
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rom1depwired: you got ~ same score as me, just I'm not chrooted.. are you on pr1.2 ?14:33
wiredrom1dep: no14:34
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meceso chromium is the fastest browser on N900 these days?14:34
rom1depwired: so chroot seems not to break perfs at all :)14:34
wiredwell, it shouldn't anyway ;)14:35
SpeedEvilunless it means you swap more14:35
SpeedEvilwhich it may14:35
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SpeedEviljavascript performance is nice - but orthoganol to speed14:35
rom1depmece: looks like, making n900 the fastest mobile tablet ever (at least on the v8 benckmark) → faster than the shiny new iPad :)14:36
SpeedEvilspeed depends on how fast the user thinks it is, not how fast it is14:36
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wiredwell ipad doesn't have flash14:36
wiredso you cant really compare them14:36
Treibholzdoes someone know whether meego will use a webkit-browser or stay with the old gecko?14:37
mecerom1dep, how is it at standard speeds then?14:38
rom1depTreibholz: probably use QtWebKit through harmattan... I'm just guessing14:38
rom1depmece: and read the scores we previously got wired and me14:39
mece112 was at default speeds?14:39
mecepretty cool.14:39
rom1depmece: on v8 18% faster than iPad, 100% faster tan nexus one, 500% faster than iPhone 3Gs14:40
wiredmm the maemo chromium uses hildon menus, nice14:40
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wiredis there a way to scroll in-page?14:41
rom1depwired: use the scrollbar ?14:41
wiredobviously, i meant without the scrollbar14:41
SpeedEvilmece: 7.92 - iceweasel14:41
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wiredthe scrollbar is too tiny to use and the edges on the screen are superannoying to use14:42
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wiredyay flash works too =]14:43
SpeedEvilI have installed all-in-one gestures on iceweasel14:43
SpeedEvilwhich works ok14:43
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jacekowskiwired: chrome touch extension14:43
wiredjacekowski: thanks for a job well done14:43
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rom1depwired: it's not really a "port" of chromium, but a hack to make it compile and run on maemo, I doubt jacekowski has had time to work on gui to make it finger friendly nor if he aims to  :)14:44
jacekowskiaim is to work on gui14:44
jacekowskibut it's not my full time day job14:44
wiredwell it does use hildon gui elements which my version does not :P14:44
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lizardofrals: I'm now playing with barisione 's example... indeed the search results look more "sane" now :D14:44
rom1depjacekowski: do you have feedback from google chromium devs ? It could be an interesting market for them since firefox guys sit on it ?14:45
wiredi guess i should set up a scratchbox and build stuff for maemo myself :)14:45
jacekowskirom1dep: it makes android look bad14:45
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barisionelizardo, frals: and my example also gets phone numbers coming from skype, not only the locally stored ones14:46
rom1depjacekowski: too bad :/ maybe open a git repo somewhere, I'm sure people will be interested in working on that :)14:46
lizardobarisione: yes, although for frals' application (fMMS) I believe he will need to filter that somehow...14:47
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fralsbarisione, lizardo: for only getting cellnumbers/email - is there any benefit of using the 'pure' osso_abook way?14:47
jacekowskinah, git sucks14:48
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jacekowskii've got svn14:48
wiredgreat, with the touch extension its actually usable14:48
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wiredjacekowski: any easy ways to get all the missing certificates?14:48
barisionelizardo, frals: what I mean is that skype gives you the ability to set your own phone number, so your contacts get it for free. that's a normal phone number, so you should be able to send MMSes to it14:48
wiredalthough its fun to see google with the scull icon lol14:49
lizardobarisione: oh, I see :)14:49
fralsbarisione: oh, thats pretty nifty14:49
jacekowskiwired: i've not even played with it14:49
rom1depjacekowski: I agree with you ^^ but when you see meego, harmattan, (soon) kde... /o\14:49
lizardofrals: at least in my case, the abook API returned more complete information14:49
lizardobarisione: e.g. the osso_abook_contact_get_display_name() function returned useful information14:49
lizardobarisione: for the contacts returned through the ebook API, it was returning "No name" sometimes14:50
fralslizardo: in my case im only after the contacts UID14:50
barisionefrals: in general it's faster (stuff could be cached), it should always work (there are a lots of corners cases in which libebook doesn't work properly) and you get better info (for instance the display name could come from IM)14:50
barisionelizardo: how were you getting the contact name using the libebook api?14:50
fralsbarisione: ok, thanks for the info :)14:50
lizardobarisione: e_contact_get_const (contact, E_CONTACT_FULL_NAME)14:51
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barisioneah yeah, that returns only the full name14:51
lizardobarisione: (note I'm totally newbie on abook/ebook APIs)14:51
barisionebut the display name could come from other things14:51
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barisionelizardo: did you write the example in ?14:52
fralsbarisione: how does osso_abook_contact_get_display_name() decide which name to display?14:52
lizardobarisione: correct... in some of my contacts that field was empty, but abook seems to always return the expected name14:52
barisionefrals: magic and settings14:52
lizardobarisione: yes, feel free to suggest improvements :)14:52
fralsbarisione: ok :)14:53
barisionefrals: you can choose in the UI if you want “first last”, “last, first” or “nickname” and the default setting is different in different languages14:53
jacekowskiwhat was default user password?14:53
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mecedoes the N900 get a "fail" on the first test like droid and iphone?14:53
jacekowskimece: no14:53
barisionefrals: so libosso-abook tries to get the display name from the local contact based on the settings, if it fails from the IM contact and if it fails uses another name (like the nickname instead of the full name)14:53
mecefigured :)14:54
barisionefrals, lizardo: also, vcards have a full name fiels (FN) and a name field (N). only one of them could be specified or both14:54
barisionelibosso-abook should use N and I think fallback on FN if needed14:55
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fralsbarisione: ok.. guess ill start using that instead of whatever python-evolution does when it does get_name() on a contact as that sometimes is empty :)14:55
barisionelizardo: g_list_nth should not be used as it's slow (it has to go through the full list every time)14:55
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barisionelizardo: with glists you do what I do in my C example14:56
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lizardobarisione: ok, will change that as well , thanks for the tip14:57
lizardo"ctypes: connecting Python and C people"14:58
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rom1depmust leave, bye !14:59
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SystemParadoxwhere's the USB networking module for N900? I can't find any usb-network-modules package15:11
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MohammadAGwow the chrome on the battery cover is black15:15
MohammadAGit's getting scratched15:15
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MohammadAGthat's cheap...15:15
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SystemParadoxargh what- the maemo-pc-connectivity package doesn't exist either? what's going on?15:21
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SystemParadoxjacekowski, was the mad-developer something for me?15:25
SystemParadoxisn't that PC side15:25
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jacekowskiSystemParadox: it's phone side15:35
jacekowskiwhy internet in scratchbox is not working15:36
jacekowskifresh install15:36
jacekowskiFailed to fetch  Could not resolve ''15:37
jacekowskiand my /etc/resolv.conf is correct15:37
SpeedEvildoes ping work?15:37
Anss|what about restarting?15:37
mikeosjacekowski: be sure to be editing the proper /etc/resolv.conf15:37
jacekowskithere is no ping in scratchbox15:38
SystemParadoxjacekowski, I can't find any of these packages, no maddeveloper, no usb-network-modules, no maemo-pc-connectivity. Where are they?15:38
jacekowskiSystemParadox: mad-developer15:38
jacekowskiSystemParadox: in extras-devel or extras-testing15:38
Anss|jacekowski, maybe wget then15:38
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jacekowskiwget is working fine15:38
alteregoStill no PR1.2 crazy,15:38
zeqresolv.conf just uses localhost, the nameserver settings are dynamicly stored in /var/run by dnsmasq15:38
alteregoAnyone successfully done a dist-upgrade using devel repo on their N900? ^.^15:39
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jacekowskiso what's wrong with apt?15:39
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Anss|jacekowski, is it https or http15:40
jacekowskiand it's not timeout15:40
jacekowskiAnss|: no15:40
jacekowskiAnss|: that shouldn't cause that error anyways15:40
SystemParadoxis extras-testing safe to enable?15:40
jacekowskisafer than flying a plane15:41
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SystemParadoxI can fly a plane. It's still safer?15:41
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jacekowskithere was huge plane crash 2 days ago15:42
ShadowJKbut can you fly a helicopter15:42
Sceltjacekowski: libxss installation fails15:43
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jacekowskiScelt: fails on what?15:44
jacekowskiis it the one from extras-devel repo?15:44
Sceltjacekowski: error code 1. unpack. trying to overwrite
jacekowskiuninstall previous version15:44
jacekowskithe one you probably have from
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jacekowskiE: Unable to parse package file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_free_binary-armel_Packages (1)15:45
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lardmanhi chaps15:45
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crashanddie_hey brah15:47
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lardmanhi crashanddie_15:49
Sceltfrals: fmms doesn't use local time settings, it gives time always in UTC15:49
ShadowJKI mean if it gives the correct time in utc in all cirumstances, it beats my s60 nokia phon15:51
Sceltwell, not sure but at least it gives UTC in mine even I'm using EET15:51
lardmananyone know how the hold down for right click is handled in Qt?15:51
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slingrold news15:54
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lardmanCould someone give me a hint as to what to look at for Qt copy to clipboard functionality, or do I use the standard osso libs?15:59
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Anss|have you guys check the dui gitorious lately?15:59
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crashanddie_lardman: right click16:04
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E0xmorning ppl16:05
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lizardofrals: ok, I just made a new ctypes example based on barisione's code:
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lizardoI'll update the wiki with it16:07
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barisionelizardo: why hash(osso_ctx)?16:08
lizardobarisione: it is how you get a GObject's C address in ctypes16:09
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barisioneweird :)16:09
barisionelizardo: your glist(addr) seems to break if addr is null16:10
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barisionealso, I'm not sure how it can work16:10
lizardobarisione: yes, but ... works :) it happens that pygobject uses the underlying C object address as the Python object hash16:10
lizardobarisione: yes, I was assuming the caller checks for the null pointer beforing calling it16:11
crashanddie_lizardo: you need to check the value of addr before passing it on to .from_address()16:11
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barisionelizardo: NULL is a valid empty list in C16:11
lizardobarisione: in glib, you mean :)16:12
barisioneyes :)16:12
barisionewell, usually lists are implemented like that in C16:12
lizardobarisione: sure , I can add a simple check that make the iterator return nothing16:12
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barisionelizardo: also, won't l be the same at every iteration as you always get it from the address?16:12
lizardoso it becomes more "C friendly"16:12
* lardman twiddles thumbs while SDK upgrades16:12
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lizardobarisione: no, because of the yield operator16:13
lizardobarisione: it's a neat Python trick :)16:13
lizardo(it also exists in other languanges , but usually is a kind of strange concept to C programmers)16:14
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barisionelizardo: I know about it :P but never really used python after yield was added to the language16:15
barisionelizardo: but I don't understand how yield changes stuff here16:15
lizardobarisione: it should work because the yield is inside a while loop16:16
lizardobarisione: so it returns the item's on each iterations and saves the context16:16
barisionelizardo: yes, but you overwrite l at every iteration16:16
lizardobarisione: no... because of the generator concept16:16
lizardobarisione: on next glist() call, it jumps to the saved context16:17
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lizardobarisione: it's kind like C's longjump (IIRC)16:17
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barisionebut addr remains the same at every iteration?16:17
barisioneor not?16:17
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lizardobarisione: e.g. ,
kamuiI gotta port crossfire16:19
kamuithe client16:20
kamuiI haven't played that in ages, just started thinknig about it randomly today16:20
lardmanbug 5422, that's good news I see just posted16:20
povbotBug Disconnect inactive internet connections after idle timeout16:20
lizardobarisione: oh, I see what you mean :)16:20
lizardobarisione: it's a bug :)16:20
lizardoit should be "l"16:21
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hrwbug 693316:21
povbotBug Alarm times are shown wrong16:21
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lizardobarisione: happens when you read your own code for a long time...16:21
barisionelizardo: yeah, you should have:16:22
barisionel = addr16:22
barisionewhile l:16:22
lizardoyep :)16:22
barisione    l = _GList.from_address(l)16:22
barisione    yield l.data16:22
barisione    l = l.next16:22
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lizardobarisione: tks again :) I'll update the wiki pages asap16:24
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* noobmonk3y blames MohammadAG for the world shortage of pistachio nuts... which is in turn causing bored people to spit randomly in different directions instead of spitooning the nut shells.... Which in turn will cause world flooding due to the in-balance of spit.... poor old MohammadAG. ;)16:25
noobmonk3yright back to work.....16:25
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lizardobarisione, frals : ok... try #2:
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barisionelizardo: seems fine but I'm not an expert of ctypes16:28
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lizardobarisione: neither am I :) I enjoy playing with it though, I can get quick prototypes much faster than plain C16:29
infobotlizardo meant: barisione: neither am I :) I enjoy playing with it though, I can get  prototypes much faster than plain C16:30
spencergot a question on dbus mce request?? i somehow didn't get the proxy object from dbus_g_proxy_new_for_name.. and the error message showed nothing.. any ideas?16:30
lizardo(C is usually faster in performance)16:30
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Sceltfy nokia16:39
Sceltwhere's pr1.2? where's ovi maps 3?16:39
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wiredwho cares16:40
wiredmy n900 rocks as is :P16:40
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* RST38h directs Scelt to a little blackened hole in the ground16:41
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SceltRST38h: I don't wanna see your black holes16:41
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haltdefwired, agree16:43
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squiddovi maps 3 would be nice tho16:43
spencergot a question on dbus mce request?? i somehow didn't get the proxy object from dbus_g_proxy_new_for_name.. and the error message showed nothing.. any ideas?16:44
wiredand a bigger default root partition as wel :P16:44
squiddroot partition is fine for me :)16:44
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KhertanHeya !16:44
squiddmaybe they could do something with battery usage too. I mean, I barely get thru day :(16:45
KhertanSomeone have try the pyside example ? particulary the syntax hilighter example ? it s freeze/loop each time something is written in the QText widget ...16:45
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wiredsquidd: battery is an issue yeah, but if you're careful it works ok... wifi switcher helps a lot16:46
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floffe 1116:48
* Khertan have a powerfull Samsung n130 which is in fact a good charger for n900 (usb charge) :)16:48
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squiddI think I need to try using only 2G tomorrow in work since I can use wlan there. Maybe it helps when it doesnt jump between 2G-3G16:49
squidd2G+wlan shouldnt use that much battery?16:50
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ShadowJKas long as the wlan access point isn't crap, yeah16:50
squiddwell, thats the problem aswell :)16:50
squiddsince sometimes I need to go between two different wlan access points16:51
squiddone doesnt cover the whole place so i got two \o&16:51
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wiredits really hard to not drain the battery with wifi...16:51
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ShadowJKmine sirs like 24 hours or something on wifi with xchat open16:52
squiddIt shouldnt drain it as fast as with 2G-3G jumping tho16:52
ShadowJK3g uses about 20 times more power than noncrap wifi for the always-online case with frequent but low amounts of data transfer16:53
squiddso 2G + wifi should be good for me when I'm at work16:54
squiddneed to try it tomorow16:54
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ShadowJKdata on 2g should be lots better too16:55
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squiddya, but its so damn slow :(16:56
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lcukdepends what you are doing of course16:56
squiddworks well for ssh+irssi but for browsing it sucks16:56
lcukirc over 2g works well16:56
squiddit does, yes16:56
squiddused it today16:56
* MohammadAG wants a static IP for his 3G/2G connection16:57
ShadowJKI dont browse that many sites that would be light enough that cpu use would be a smaller part than the transfer over edge16:57
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* Khertan want that isp remove limitation on things other than http and https on his 3G/2G connection16:58
* noobmonk3y blinks16:58
javispedromorning gentlemen16:58
ShadowJKbut for gpodder 3g rocks, 5MBit/s!16:58
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ShadowJKwikipedia: no difference between edge/3g/wifi... layout is so heavy16:59
* jacekowski just lost all hope 16:59
jacekowskii just found web page where somebody packed my chrome build and clams ownership of it17:00
squiddthats cool, isn't it :D17:01
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jacekowskihe will regret it17:03
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javispedrowill you use a hidden virical jacekowski license term?17:03
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javispedroto sue him into oblivion?17:04
jacekowskii've got better ways of punishing people17:04
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kamuijacekowski, what site17:06
jacekowskiit's polish site17:06
spencergot a question on dbus mce request?? i somehow didn't get the proxy object from dbus_g_proxy_new_for_name.. and the error message showed nothing.. any ideas?17:08
squiddjacekowski: you just pwn them to oblivion?17:08
wiredjacekowski: i'll set up a scratchbox later, perhaps I could help with this :)17:08
jacekowskinah, i'll just ddos that site17:09
jacekowskiweek of downtime will do17:09
squiddthat evil17:09
jacekowskiit's primitve17:09
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wiredfor some reason the caps lock is always on when typing in in-page textfields in chromium17:10
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jacekowskii know17:11
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jacekowskibut i have to rebuild it with debugging information to fix it17:11
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jacekowskiand i can't use autobuilder for it17:11
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zeq1OpenVPN works if you need/want full connectivity over 2G/3G. I'm about to create a bugzilla entry with the fixes to get it working with redirect-gateway and dnsmasq.  There's still an issue when the connection goes down or switches to/from wifi needing openvpn to be restarted though..17:27
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wiredzeq1: you can easily create a bash script to monitor that17:33
E0xwhat i need fro create widget ( skill , software , etc )17:34
lcukE0x, large amounts of etc17:34
lcukwhere etc = bacon17:34
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Treibholzand eggs17:35
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crashanddie_'night all17:36
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E0xlcuk: i am look for do my baby step in dev in my n900 so i think is a easy one17:36
crashanddie_lcuk: I saw an interview about a guy who did everything with bacon17:36
zeq1wired: that's true, do you know if there's a suitable hook/event to trigger on network (re-)connections?17:36
crashanddie_lcuk: bacon coke, bacon icecream, bacon pasta, bacon cheese, bacon fries, bacon mustard, bacon ketchup17:37
jacekowskibacon bacon?17:37
crashanddie_then there was fried bacon, wrapped in bacon, wrapped around a sausage, stuffed in a chicken, wrapped in bacon.17:37
wiredzeq1: there probably is, but im not aware of it :)17:37
wiredzeq1: you could go simple and use ifconfig to monitor which interface is up and its ip17:38
lcukbaconaisse on your bacon sandwich17:38
crashanddie_yeah but baconaise is a classic17:38
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lcukE0x, widgets are a harder class17:38
lcukfor beginner to grasp17:38
crashanddie_anyway, later17:38
E0xlcuk: oh17:38
zeq1polling would't be good for battery life though17:38
zeq1I think dbus is probably the way to go17:39
SpeedEvilPolling can actually be very light17:39
SpeedEvilwhile true do17:39
SpeedEvilsleep 6017:39
SpeedEvilif ...17:40
SpeedEvilis surprisingly light on battery17:40
E0xlcuk: any recomendation ?17:40
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lcukyes, try some hello worlds with python17:40
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lcuksee how you feel without spending tonnes of time setting up much17:40
SpeedEvilE0x: you can do useful widgets with only awk or shell. with command-line-execution widget17:41
zeq1I suppose that would't be too bad, but it would be better to have it respond instantly to network reconfigurations17:41
SpeedEvilI've got one widget with the name 'dim' - that when pressed executes echo > ...17:41
E0xSpeedEvil: yes i was thinking in something like that , but using ruby17:41
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zeq1I'll do some more digging17:42
TreibholzE0x: I dont't think, there are ruby-bindings (yet)17:43
Treibholzas there is no ruby in the default-repositories17:43
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SpeedEvilyou've also got to think about library footprint17:43
SpeedEvilSure - your ruby app might be a small one.17:43
TreibholzE0x: use python (thats more beautifull anyway)17:43
SpeedEvilBut nothing on the device uses the ruby interpreter, libraries, or ...17:44
SpeedEvilSo it might use an additional 20M - say - of memory.17:44
SpeedEviland take another 2s to start17:44
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SpeedEvilCompared to something written in python or perl17:44
spencercan anyone help me on a dbus mce request question??17:44
SpeedEvilspencer: shoot17:45
spenceri can't get the proxy when i call dbus_g_proxy_new_for_name, and the GError object returned NULL..17:45
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spencerany idea?17:52
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spencerSpeedEvil, any clue?17:54
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SpeedEvilnope, sorry, never used dbus much17:56
dmj726_n900pidgin seems to think links are being pressed sometimes when they aren't.17:57
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javispedromikkov: there?18:01
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nidOC-S-B: around?18:11
C-S-B;)18:11 seem to be hiring if you're still looking18:12
C-S-Bdo they have a jobs email adress?18:12
nidOno idea on any requirements etc as I cant find a public ad for the position, I have their techs on msn though and theyve got "we're hiring - msg me" in their names, but are afk ;)18:13
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C-S-Bwell if you can grab an email address I'd love to submit my cv at least18:15
nidOyou'd probably be best mailing craig@flump.net18:15
C-S-Bwho's that?18:16 ==, 2 brands of the same business18:16
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C-S-BThanks nidO18:19
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C-S-BEmail sent.18:19
C-S-BI need to head out and collect the gf who started her job today. :)18:19
nidOlucky her ;)18:20
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PhonicUKhey all18:47
MohammadAG_X-Fade, ping18:47
PhonicUKanyone know of an app that will announce when mobile reception is/isn't available?18:48
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peetahhi all19:01
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peetahanyone aware of a way to use something like localepurge with maemo ?19:01
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khertanHi again19:01
peetahI mean, it uses docpurge by default, so why not localepurge ?19:02
khertansomeone have an idea why this code doesn t hilight syntax on maemo ?19:02
khertanit s works elsewhere19:03
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slonopotamushello, maemo people19:05
slonopotamuscan anyone explain where my package dissapeared from extras-devel?
slonopotamusah, 'old version cleaned'19:07
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slonopotamuswonderful, just wonderful19:07
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* slonopotamus sets up a daily script to upload new version.19:07
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khertanyou are lucky mine don t want to disappear19:08
khertanbug 989419:08
povbotBug Ask for remove of all pypackager of fremantle extras, extras-testing, extras-devel19:08
slonopotamuserr, no19:08
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slonopotamuscleaner didn't remove last ones19:08
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slonopotamuskhertan: heh19:10
slonopotamus(note, sflphone-common is still in repo)19:11
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korhojoacan someone tell me why this happens?19:15
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corecodedoes the xlv work for you with smartreflex enabled?19:15
slonopotamusJaffa: ping19:16
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korhojoacorecode: I didn't explicitly enable smartreflex, was that needed?19:16
corecodei think otherwise the voltage regulation does not happen at all19:16
corecodei could be wrong, that's just my brief interpretation of the source19:17
korhojoaso uh, it ran at what voltage then?19:17
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corecodeat the stock voltage19:17
corecodelike the stock kernel19:17
korhojoathen it should not have used more power?19:17
korhojoabecause that's just retarded19:17
corecodeis that batteryeye?19:17
slonopotamusthe most embarrasing thing is that i got no notification on removal19:17
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corecodeah new version19:18
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corecodekorhojoa: did you have it running at a higher frequency?19:22
corecodeor maybe have more processes running?19:22
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TheOnehi @all19:23
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TheOnei am not sure whether i found a bug or i am only stupi ^^19:24
TheOnemaybe someone can help me19:24
TheOnemy problem relates to Petrovich19:24
TheOnethe bluetooth app19:24
TheOnei would sent a friend a file from my n900 to his mobile phone19:25
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slonopotamus(if we were in ##c, you would be already banned for excessive flood) :)19:25
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kamuiI dont' see chromium in the software repo for testing19:26
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TheOneat first there was the paring procedure of the 2 devices19:26
nidOits in -devel19:26
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TheOneand here was the problem, we used numbers as key and i could not type numbers with the hardware keyboard19:27
ShadowJKpress 0 without the fn19:27
TheOneonly via the onscreen keyboard19:27
korhojoacorecode: no, default speeds, just lower voltage. nothing more running either19:27
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TheOneyes i tried it with fn + number and the number key without fn19:28
korhojoacorecode: i actually played commander keen (dosbox) and listened to music with the stock kernel when that was taken19:28
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TheOnei always get the caracter19:28
* slonopotamus wonders why he has _two_ browserd processes on n900. doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of running as daemon?19:28
ShadowJKYou guys realize that in idle, the CPU will be running at 0MHz, and the voltage will be 0V? :-)19:28
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ShadowJKYour ULV kernels will only make a difference for when the CPU is actually used19:28
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javispedroslonopotamus: miracles of modern technologies. one is used for normal browsing the other used for the conversations app.19:29
TheOnedoes somebody have the same problem?19:29
slonopotamusjavispedro: why they can't be a single one? (and did you see my sflphone-client-gnome that dissapeared from extras-devel?)19:29
corecodeShadowJK: it does?19:29
ShadowJKTheOne, did you hold in the blue arrow (fn) while pressing the key with the blue 0?19:29
kamuinid0, i don't see it at all in my repositories19:29
ShadowJKcorecode, what does what?19:29
kamuiand I have testing and devel enabled19:29
corecodeShadowJK: so, what is using energy then?  the maintained wifi/3g connections?19:30
javispedroslonopotamus: dunno really, just wondering that thing too.19:30
kamuihmm, let me manually look under all19:30
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TomaszDkamui, refresh then, it's under network, I'm downloading it right now19:30
ShadowJKcorecode, ram, radios, peripherals19:30
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nidOits there ^19:30
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corecodemm ram19:30
corecodeshould switch off banks19:30
slonopotamusjavispedro: no googleable traces, all deps seem to be in place... straange19:30
javispedroslonopotamus: was it submitted recently?19:31
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javispedrothere was a bug fixed this morning for all I know19:31
slonopotamusjavispedro: no, 2 months ago19:31
javispedropft, dunno.19:31
marcus__If I use the speedometer from Ovi Store, does it then connect to the internet etc? I've had some problems with using GPS without internet, but could just be a coincidence19:31
ShadowJKStandby is really really low power... the goal is to get back to standby as soon as possible... and for that, running at 600MHz to minimize active time and maximize standby time can be a win :-)19:31
TheOneShadowJK: for example i want type 1 - i first use fn + Q and get the letter q, after that i remove the q and tried only the Key Q and get a q too19:31
slonopotamusjavispedro: has changelog19:31
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ShadowJKmarcus__, presumable since it's a speedometer it uses the Location service, which connects to the internet if you have Network Positioning enabled in the Location settings, and doesn't if you don't19:32
slonopotamusjavispedro: so everything is there (even package page), except for debs19:32
marcus__ShadowJK: So what's up with the GPS? Why would it need internet? :S19:32
ShadowJKmarcus__, it doesn't need it, it's just faster with it19:33
marcus__Aha. Goodie.19:33
ShadowJKinternet is like a gazillion times faster than downloading stuff from the satellite19:33
corecodei had serious problems making it work at all without network19:33
nidO"downloading stuff from the satellite"?19:34
javispedroslonopotamus: lol, indeed
corecodethe almanac19:34
slonopotamusjavispedro: i suspect old package cleaner was working too hard19:34
ShadowJKMost people either permanently stand in a spot where the signal is too bad for downloading data from the satellites, or wave their device around like a crackmonkey so that the GPS chip never manages to download all the data and ends up having to restart from scratch constantly19:34
corecodewhere is which sattelite19:34
ShadowJKalmanac, ephemeris19:34
javispedroslonopotamus: bump the version number and resubmit, if it happens again complain :)19:34
TheOneShadowJK: do you know what i mean?19:35
korhojoaShadowJK: what i don't understand is why the device doesn't try to download from multiple sources and patch together what it didn't get earlier19:35
slonopotamusjavispedro: maybe just cron resubmit job? :)19:35
ShadowJKTheOne, hm...19:35
javispedroslonopotamus: did it happen more than once?19:35
slonopotamusjavispedro: nope19:36
ShadowJKTheOne, I would have thought that atleast one of those methods would have given a number :(19:36
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TheOneme too ^^19:36
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ShadowJKkorhojoa, it doesn't know the data will be correct if it patches together19:36
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javispedroslonopotamus: then hope the autoclearner learns his lesson :P19:36
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slonopotamusjavispedro: autocleaner removed them all19:36
ShadowJKI'm not really sure if it knows the actual position of the stuff coming from the sky..19:36
ShadowJKand finding the satellite to download from in the first place it slower without agps :/19:36
slonopotamusjavispedro: maemo8 was removed too. i missed it first time19:37
corecodei think it can listen to any satellite19:37
corecodebut it just takes very very long19:37
korhojoaShadowJK: i mean, can't it look at the end of where the transmission ended and then look at where to continue next time?19:37
corecodeit just has to listen to the satellite19:38
ShadowJKIt's one-way communication, you can't ask the sat to send the missing bytes :)19:38
corecodeuntil the stuff comes what it wants19:38
slonopotamusjavispedro: according to package page, maemo8 version was autocleaned the same minute it was imported19:38
nidOalmanac data comes from all satellites simultaneously on a repeat, that data only needs to be downloaded infrequently anyway19:38
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javispedroslonopotamus: clearly, he hates you19:39
slonopotamusjavispedro: and then, a week later, all previous versions were cleaned19:39
* javispedro doesn't know the actual logic behind it19:39
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ShadowJKSo with perfect signal it takes 30 seconds to get the entire message from the sat, if you miss a piece you have to wait another 30sec while hte transmission loops :D19:40
ShadowJKand you need, what, 4 satellites to determine your position? :)19:40
* javispedro remember something like that in his old garmin receiver manual19:41
nidO3 for a rough fix19:41
RST38hmoo all19:41
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ShadowJK"Each frame contains 1/25th of the almanac, so 12.5 minutes are required to receive the entire almanac from a single satellite."19:41
javispedroincluding the "WHY IS THIS THING SO SLOW PART"19:41
ShadowJKouch :)19:41
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infobotPorn remains one of the largest problems with Open Source Software. Often causing development delays, flooded links and, in extreme cases, disabling programmers ability to type.19:42
slonopotamusmuahaha :D19:42
javispedromoo RST38h, about bug 9752, have a minute?19:42
povbotBug Autobuilder links against uninstallable libraries19:42
RST38hjavis: yes?19:42
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slonopotamusRST38h: do you manage extras-devel repo?19:43
RST38hslono: no.19:43
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javispedroslonopotamus: X-Fade does it19:43
slonopotamusah, right19:43
slonopotamusjavispedro: thx19:43
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* slonopotamus summons X-Fade 19:44
* slonopotamus fails19:44
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kamuiTomaszD, found it!19:46
kamuilame sauce, but I got it under all, didn't show for me under network at first19:46
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kamuinot until I did my updates19:47
slonopotamusbtw. who decided to trigger autobuilder on .dsc upload and not on .changes? dput uploads dsc (fast), then tarball (slow), then .changes (fast). so with current triggering it has high chances to get half-uploaded tarball.19:47
KMFDMwrong channel19:48
TheOneShadowJK: i will write report it as a bug to the Petrovich author19:49
jacekowskislonopotamus: emm19:51
jacekowskislonopotamus: it takes like 10s to upload tarball19:52
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slonopotamusjacekowski: ... that depends on tarball size and network bandwidth.19:54
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noobmonk3yhmmm is autobuilder back alive or still having that time of the month? :|19:56
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jacekowskinoobmonk3y: it was alive this morning19:58
jacekowskinoobmonk3y: but i think it's still building against pr1.219:59
noobmonk3yahhh thats ok, not had that issue yet with mine19:59
noobmonk3yusing python :D19:59
noobmonk3yseems to get past that bit ok19:59
lcukif username = "n00bmonk3y":19:59
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slonopotamusjavispedro: there's a total mess with autocleaner...20:00
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noobmonk3ylol lcuk,  noobmonk3y == Special ;)20:00
noobmonk3ylcuk was just panicking, he wouldn't know what to do with himself if he didnt get a daily healthcheck update ;)20:01
korhojoayou know what i like about summer?20:02
noobmonk3ythe sun?20:02
korhojoait's 20:02 already, and the sun hasn't set20:02
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lcuknoobmonk3y, lol20:03
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noobmonk3y:D mid-:D20:05
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jacekowskinoobmonk3y: you will know something regarding that bugtracker link requirement20:06
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MohammadAGanyone got a link to the image shown at the summit?20:08
MohammadAG(about not keeping the N900 locked @ 550/600)20:08
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slonopotamusbug 990220:10
povbotBug Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel20:10
slonopotamusjavispedro: /\20:10
* marcusm_m wonders if you can receive the text of a textmessage using DBus and then use espeak to speak it out loud ^_^20:10
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javispedroslonopotamus: well done20:11
lcuklolololol slonopotamus20:11
slonopotamusjavispedro: i'm lucky that it didn't purge html page too :)20:11
lcukits just being efficient20:11
slonopotamuslcuk: that's not funny :)20:11
* noobmonk3y giggles20:12
noobmonk3ytis a little20:12
slonopotamuswell, actually it is funny :)20:12
noobmonk3yi just love the way you did everything correctly and logged a bug ;)20:12
slonopotamusbut my user isn't happy :)20:12
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noobmonk3ynot suprised :(20:12
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slonopotamusi wonder how autocleaner determines that particular version isn't the latest one.20:13
slonopotamusi think it does that wrong :)20:13
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lcuki'm betting it ignores maemo* section in equation - its meant to hold last 5 builds from what i hear20:14
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slonopotamuslcuk: well. 5 builds != no builds at all :)20:14
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lcukofc - something made it go OTT cleaning20:14
slonopotamusOTT - ?20:15
slonopotamusofc - ?20:15
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marcusm_mAnyone know if someone is working on a port for Bub Brothers? :P20:15
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lcukslonopotamus, ofcourse20:16
noobmonk3ylcuk, it finally realised after parsing 1000+ healtcheck builds that it needed a diet and cleaned itself up?20:16
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slonopotamuslcuk: i have wild guess. i uploaded ...-karmic-... (instead of jaunty) before, but it did't build and didn't stop maemo1-maemo5 from going into repo20:18
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slonopotamuslcuk: weird things started from maemo620:18
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jacekowskidoes anybody know what software is used on autobuilder?20:21
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jacekowskiand could share configs20:21
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Chikusob 1.2 still not out :(20:23
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javispedrolcuk: indeed it might be ~ char throwing it off20:34
javispedrobut dunno20:34
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lcuk~ is used in dpkg to incicate less than or something20:35
javispedroyeah, it's valid20:35
* lcuk never suggested it wasnt20:36
* javispedro might had in his previous assert20:36
MohammadAGoh for the love of god /var/tmp/ccZVnO3f.s:109050: Fatal error: can't close CMakeFiles/flake.dir/tools/KoCreatePathTool.o: No space left on device20:37
javispedrothat's good!20:37
MohammadAGi filled my laptop's HDD :/20:37
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* MohammadAG needs to find a way to backup scratchbox20:37
MohammadAGit's the PR1.1.1 SDK, and I can't lose that!20:38
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slonopotamusMohammadAG: hehe :)20:38
javispedrooh, in the future you should20:39
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javispedrowe're trying to bring in a more recent shlibdeps :P20:39
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MohammadAGjavispedro, i'll lose it when I get PR1.2 :p20:42
javispedroby then who knows if the pr1.3 sdk will be out :D20:42
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MohammadAGjavispedro, well I hope you guys don't update the autobuilder next time! :P20:43
javispedrothere's people who wanted it -- qt guys mostly.20:44
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* MohammadAG wonders why20:45
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MohammadAGthey can't install their own apps then20:45
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javispedroand there will be people that will want the 1.3 whenever it comes because it will have whizzy-whisky-optimized-trithium codecs20:45
MohammadAGjavispedro, make a separate autobuilder for them ;)20:45
javispedroand then ditch qa?20:47
MohammadAGlcuk, did you try the live wallpaper package?20:47
javispedroyou would have a fremantle-1.0 QA queue, a fremantle-1.2 queue, and a fremantle-1.3 queue.20:47
MohammadAGjavispedro, QA doesn't really apply in -devel :)20:47
MohammadAGditch the 1.0 one :)20:48
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javispedro(cue complains from people who won't upgrade to 1.2 the day it's out, which includes me)20:48
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lcukMohammadAG, yes20:49
lcuknot yours tho20:49
MohammadAGit's not mine, i just repackaged it for PR1.1.120:49
lcukexactly, i did not use your repackaged version20:49
MohammadAGkept control file the same too :)20:49
* MohammadAG threatens lcuk and tells him to give him the PR1.2 image20:50
lcukthat took you a while :)20:50
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MohammadAGlag :P20:51
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MohammadAGlcuk, how long have you had the image?20:52
* lcuk shrugs20:52
* MohammadAG persists20:53
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MohammadAGlcuk, don't, i'm not aiming to guess a release date :)20:53
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lcukwow, ive been a member of gitorious now since january20:55
* MohammadAG apologizes to lcuk :)20:58
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V13j #maemo-devel21:07
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V13t.m.o. needs to be split in a social and a technical forum... there is too much repetitive noise...21:13
V13(whichever way you see it21:13
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RST38h...then everybody in the social part has to be banned, permanently21:13
andre__there's categories for that I'd say.21:13
V13andre__ yes, but there is just one "active topics" tab21:13
lcukwe should have a check for repetition and see how many creative ways to ask for 1.2 they can come up with21:14
V13(you said creative :-)21:14
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V13at some point i heard (here i believe) for an easy way to use the accelerometer for games... any idea ?21:17
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SpeedEvilwell - 0th cut is just to read from /sys/wherever/coord21:18
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V13someone had mentioned a way to use it as input using a library.. not reading and translating coord21:18
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Jaffaslonopotamus: pong21:24
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V13the builder has wrong time...21:30
* noobmonk3y is about to test the autobuilder :|21:30
V13i promoted a package about 5 minutes ago and its timestamp is still 2 minutes in the future21:30
V13(18.32 UTC)21:31
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V13noobmonk3y: hit it... it can take it...21:31
* noobmonk3y jusy "hit it" ........ eeeeeeeeeek21:32
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noobmonk3ywow build succeeded in 2 mins21:33
noobmonk3yseems quicker ;)21:33
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X-Fadeslonopotamus: Will look at your issue tomorrow. The cleaner seems to either not like you or is a bit too agressive.21:35
* V13 rephrases a song from iron maiden21:35
* noobmonk3y thinks the first option, but is not sure21:35
V13"abuse it, misuse it, it can take all that you've got"21:36
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noobmonk3yi dunno, even the strongest people cry when they see healthcheck.... pretty sure autobuilder has a tantrum when i get near it ;)21:36
javispedrolcuk: there, your dark side clone ("luck") is on #meego ! ;)21:37
X-Fadenoobmonk3y: Nah, autobuilder has seen some really dark things today.21:37
V13any idea on whom I may annoy when a project has 10 votes but cannot be promoted ?21:37
V13(most probably because of "special" votes)21:37
javispedrochronos, god of time?21:37
noobmonk3yX-Fade, did you feed it after midnight again :|21:37
X-Fadenoobmonk3y: Evil experiments :)21:37
MohammadAGmy N900 went from 60% to 0%21:38
* noobmonk3y feeds MohammadAG to the autobuilder21:38
MohammadAGin 1 minute21:38
noobmonk3ylol MohammadAG !!!21:38
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noobmonk3ythat'll teach you to not overclock ;)21:38
MohammadAGno seriously!21:38
MohammadAGi'm at 600MHz :)21:38
X-FadeMohammadAG: Redraw after unlock?21:38
noobmonk3yas i said ;)21:38
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MohammadAGX-Fade, huh? :)21:39
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X-FadeMohammadAG: When you unlock the screen, then it only redraws the screen. So for a short moment you see the old screen before lock?21:39
noobmonk3yautobuilder just cleaned a reasonably new version21:39
noobmonk3ythe one in testing.......21:39
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noobmonk3yi'm hoping it just cleaned it outta devel21:40
MohammadAGX-Fade, nope21:40
X-Fadenoobmonk3y: Should keep one version?21:40
V13xm.. -0 ?21:40
kamuiso who's using chromium21:40
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kamuiI find it quite nice for an early build21:41
V13noobmonk3y: you forced -0 as version ?21:41
kamuibut all my letter IN the browser are stuck in caps21:41
noobmonk3ywell 1.0 is in testing, and 1.1 is in devel, it said it just cleaned 1.021:41
V13are you making a debian native package ?21:41
noobmonk3y1.0.0-0 and 1.1.0-021:41
MohammadAGthat's small....21:41
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noobmonk3yjust checking the HAM sandwhich21:41
X-Fadenoobmonk3y: Yes, it remove 1.0 from devel. But 1.1 is on it's way in.21:41
* noobmonk3y pats autobuilder on the back21:42
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V13x-fade: until yesterday it was only cleaning older debian versions (e.g -1 when -2 was uploaded) no ?21:42
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MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, X-Fade
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X-FadeV13: it still does that.21:42
X-FadeV13: Just keeps one version.21:42
noobmonk3yMohammadAG, did it fart as it discharged?21:43
MohammadAGwish the stock market was like that21:43
V13then it should not clean 1.0 when 1.1 was uploaded... right ?21:43
noobmonk3yMohammadAG, when it gets some juice - new h/c uploaded to devel ;)21:43
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X-FadeV13: Sure it should. Only one.21:43
noobmonk3yV13, assuming it cleaned it from devel, not testing21:43
noobmonk3yso i now have 1 version in devel, and 1 in testing21:43
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V13ok..  :)21:44
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noobmonk3yMohammadAG,  have to admit that pic looks like mine when i use joikuspot ;)21:45
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noobmonk3yahhhhhhh fucksocks21:47
noobmonk3ymistake in that devel version21:47
lcukMohammadAG, doesnt joiku have to maintain an adhoc host21:48
MohammadAGlcuk, yep21:48
MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, it's a damn straight line lol21:48
javispedroadhoc and powersaving are incompatible21:49
jacekowskican anybody try if sudo rf -rf / would break their phone?21:49
javispedrorf: command not found21:49
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V13why not try this to the scratchbox? :-)))21:49
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MohammadAGjacekowski, you ;)21:50
lcukjacekowski, you seem to have made a typo in your script21:50
spenceri can't get the proxy when i call dbus_g_proxy_new_for_name, and the GError object returned NULL..  can anyone help?21:50
jacekowskirm -rf /21:50
lcukplease can you fix it, run a corrective cycle on your machine to confirm21:50
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lcukthen let us know the fixed version21:50
MohammadAGjavispedro, i'm not using powersaver :)21:50
MohammadAGerrordeveloper, adhoc*21:50
V13i tried it... it works ok..21:50
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* MohammadAG fails sometimes21:51
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V13MohammadAG: I was referring to jacekowski.21:51
lcukmore often than not :p21:51
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javispedroC:\> rm -rf /21:52
javispedrocommand not found21:52
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javispedrobut I typed it in that ms-dos thing!!21:52
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MohammadAGjavispedro, LOL21:52
MohammadAGlcuk, thanks for the input :P21:53
timeless_mbpanyone here familiar w/
MohammadAGjavispedro, linux, on the N90021:53
MohammadAGnot me21:53
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lcukn900rm -rf /21:54
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lcukwhat was it meant to do>21:54
lcuki dont tihnk its broke it21:54
javispedroMohammadAG: I clicked on the ms-dos thing in my n900 and typed that but the same happened!!21:54
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javispedroMohammadAG: I had to install rover.sys just to get - working!!21:54
* noobmonk3y just tried it on my ubuntu vm...21:55
V13javispedro: first install cygwin21:55
* MohammadAG detects sarcasm21:55
MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, you're kidding... I hope21:55
* noobmonk3y really did just try it... it's a vm, whats the worst thats gonna happen?21:55
slonopotamusX-Fade, or both :)21:55
lcuknorton says this script is potentially damaging and that it will nto be ran21:55
* noobmonk3y will re-install it tomorrow anyway ;)21:55
V13i remember ubuntu having a "protection" for it.. they had a patch that prevented that.21:55
noobmonk3yit certainly is doing something21:56
redtimeless_mbp: yes21:56
V13which of course was heavily criticized21:56
X-FadeFixed the issue, will recover your app tomorrow. I'm way too tired after some intense hacking today :)21:56
noobmonk3yawwwww X-Fade21:56
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* lcuk slides a beer over @ X-Fade 21:56
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, you should like it :) bug 990221:56
povbotBug Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel21:56
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timeless_mbpslonopotamus: youch21:57
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noobmonk3yX-Fade, build works quicker than normal, butttttttt21:57
noobmonk3ythe icon has vanished from HAM completely lol21:57
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timeless_mbpred: i just got something in the mail from vero21:58
X-Fadenoobmonk3y: Pretty sure that is not the builder's fault.21:58
timeless_mbpi'm trying to find an equivalency21:58
* noobmonk3y will blame it while he can ;)21:58
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noobmonk3yhavn't changed anything though, may just need time to recover from it's seizure21:58
redi just got my tax papers from them less than week ago21:59
slonopotamustimeless_mbp, is it a sign that machines declared a war on people? :)21:59
noobmonk3yMohammadAG, Healthcheck is now working and in extras-devel l- minus the icon ;)21:59
timeless_mbpdo i want,489&article=5460&domain=VERO_ENGLISH ?21:59
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noobmonk3y maybe?21:59
povbotBug 9902: Autocleaner purged _all_ versions of sflphone-client-gnome from extras-devel21:59
X-FadeAnyway, away from the screen. BBT.22:00
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redtimeless_mbp: if you ahve nothing to add or correct then no, but if say you have a long way to work and cannot use public transportation due a good reason - you can ease your taxes22:00
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redlike 0,24€ * kilometers (home-work work-home) * days (usually 22) * months22:01
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smharwhat pdf viewer is available to N900?22:03
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RST38hmoo, konttori22:04
marcusmsmhar: Isn't there a built-in?22:04
smharI do not know. I am planning on buying an N900. I have N97 which have a shareware adobe acrobat reader that is expired already22:05
ds3built in22:05
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marcusmAha. I'm pretty sure there's one built-in. (:22:06
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Shapeshiftersmhar: the builtin one is very fast and does a fair job. only thing lacking is kinetic scrolling22:06
smhargood to know.. thanks22:07
konttoriRST38h: moo to you too!22:07
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SpeedEvilShapeshifter: And arbitrary zoom.22:07
ds3I much rather see it behave better with really really really huge PDFs22:08
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slingrhrm.. any essential apps anyone can name off the top of their head22:09
slingri recently got Sygic Mobile Maps, and Joikuspot22:09
SpeedEvilslingr: for me. Camkeyd - switch back to the desktop with cam button, flashlight, fbreader (ebooks)22:10
konttorislingr: picodrive, drnoksnes22:10
SpeedEvilslingr: xchat22:10
slingryay :D22:10
slingrthis should keep me busy for 5 minutes22:11
konttorislingr: 2g / 3g switcher status bar applet.22:11
SpeedEvilslingr: 'speedy' - net-speed measurerer22:11
ds3camkeyd is a must have22:11
slingryeah i got that one konttori22:11
timeless_mbpred: i need to file my US taxes22:11
ds3and that double press to lock the screen app22:11
konttorislingr: 900 MHz kernel ;)22:11
timeless_mbpi'm trying to figure out if the numbers i need are 1.1 and 2.122:11
timeless_mbpi think they are22:11
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timeless_mbp1.1 seems to be income (before taxes?) and 2.1 seems to be taxes (assuming no changes are required)22:11
slingrkonttori.. overclocking the cpu?22:12
SpeedEvilslingr: it has issues - it is documented to shorten the life by the cpu maker22:12
slingrwell i'm fairly happy with the speed as is22:13
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noobmonk3yslingr, healthcheck ;) hehe22:13
konttorislingr: yeah. well, it makes device fly. especially good for browser and flash22:14
konttoriand emulators.22:14
trumeeis it possible to  1) copy paste from conversations, 2) get to a previous message in conversations?22:14
SpeedEvildesktop command execution widget, gnu utils22:14
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redtimeless_mbp: doh, cant help with that - but surely you got ppl at your workplace who have experience of that?22:15
marcusmtrumee: You get an IM-like overview.22:15
timeless_mbpred: today's the 12th22:15
timeless_mbpi have to file my taxes by the 15th :)22:15
marcusmtrumee: So if you want to view a previous sms, just scroll a tad up.22:15
trumeemarcusm: i want press the UP key and get one of my previous messages.22:15
redi see22:15
trumeemarcusm: no, i want it in the input box22:15
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marcusmtrumee: Aha, well. I have not seen such feature, but after using XChat/terminal a lot on my desktop, I'd love such feature.22:16
RST38hkonttori: Won't it shorten device's lifespan though?22:16
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SpeedEvilmarcusm: xchat does that on device too. :)22:16
trumeemarcusm: hmm. most IM programs have that. comes in very handy.22:16
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marcusmSpeedEvil: Indeed, but not in text messages etc (: Would love that.22:17
marcusmtrumee: Indeed.22:17
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konttoriRST38h: I can't comment, as I'm on daddy month and cannot ask from experts, I'm only saying this as a normal geek / hacker.22:17
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trumeewell. this is the price we have to pay for a closed app :(22:17
RST38hah, congratulations btw =)22:17
konttorithanks. She turns one tomorrow.22:18
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trumeeah, copy paste is possible in conversations. It works like in the browser, using the stylus and drag from left of the screen22:21
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RST38hno wonder, given that conversations use web engine22:23
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timeless_mbpRST38h: well, some browser engine derivatives intentionally break/disable such things22:25
timeless_mbpbut yes22:25
timeless_mbpconversations chose not to break that :)22:25
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squiddany idea if they gonna implement same kind of zooming to image viewer that is already in microb22:25
timeless_mbpsquidd: that seems unlikely22:26
timeless_mbpofficially microb is not the platform toolkit22:26
squiddi see22:26
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timeless_mbpfor harmattan the platform is Qt, WebKit, DUI22:26
timeless_mbpgive or take22:26
V13"give gtk, take qt" :-P22:27
RST38hand microb is supposed to die off?22:27
V13webkit 2.0 is not ported to linux yet..22:27
V13does this ring any bells ?22:27
squiddkinda pitty if it dies. best browser in mobile so far imho22:28
squiddo/c there can always be better :P22:28
timeless_mbpRST38h: i haven't seen an official story22:28
timeless_mbphowever microb's advantages over firefox for mobile are supposed to disappear w/ time22:29
squiddfirefox is long way from microb22:29
V13i mean webkit 3.022:29
squiddatleast in speed22:29
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timeless_mbpmicrob 2's big advantage was process separation22:29
* RST38h cackles nervously at the mention of firefox for mobile22:29
timeless_mbpe10s is fairly close to ready for at least oopp22:29
timeless_mbpi'm not quite sure when it'll be ready for content areas, but...22:30
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spenceri can't get the proxy when i call dbus_g_proxy_new_for_name, and the GError object returned NULL..  can anyone help?22:30
V13"A new major revision of the WebKit rendering engine has been posted by22:31
V13Apple. "WebKit2 is designed from the ground up to support a split22:31
V13process model, where the web content (JavaScript, HTML, layout, etc)22:31
V13lives in a separate process. This model is similar to what Google Chrome22:31
V13offers, with the major difference being that we have built the process22:31
V13split model directly into the framework, allowing other clients to use22:31
V13it." Unfortunately, it lacks a Linux port at the moment, but one assumes that can be fixed."22:31
V13arg,, sorry for the multi-line! :(22:31
* marcusm pats V1322:31
* V13 slaps himself with a large trut22:32
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* V13 buys an iphone22:32
timeless_mbpV13: "not my problem"22:32
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* V13 learned his lesson.. punishment was heavy...22:32
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ShapeshifterV13: huh. no linux support for a webkit browser version?22:33
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Shapeshifterah apple.22:33
* Shapeshifter rolls his eyes22:33
V13not yet... i suppose qt folks will have to port it themselves... maybe...22:34
V13off-topic [announce] [fyi] new game.. silly, fast and no-brainer... good for wasting a couple of minutes: "wok":
noobmonk3yhmmmmmmmm how does the "popular" apps part work in maemo downloads?22:36
ds3give me netfront and throw out microb22:36
noobmonk3yhave been getting 1/2k downloads a day and not anywhere near being popular ;(22:36
lcukv13 so the aim of the game is to put your balls into a wok22:37
V13and throw them22:37
lcukcan i ask, is it a hot wok?22:37
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lcukits not offtopic tho :)22:37
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lcukalways pleased to see new titles22:37
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SWFu64Anyone get the chromium update to working in the application manager?22:38
SWFu64It fails for me22:38
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embeddedHi all22:41
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marcusmHeya, embedded.22:44
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embeddedHi marcusm22:47
konttoriV13: any video / screenshots?22:48
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V13of what ?22:49
V13of the game?22:49
lardmanjacekowski: You're the Chromium chap aren't you?22:50
noobmonk3yif anyone else has updated healthcheck to the latest devel version can they confirm the icon has re-appeared please? :D22:52
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n900evillardman: shine a light on him, and see.22:56
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V13is it possible to test portrait mode on SDK ?23:00
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lcukturn your monitor on its side23:01
lardmann900evil: might dazzle me ;)23:01
DocScrutinizeryou're aware of this?  -  awesome. matan did a pretty good mod there23:01
V13is the app supposed to turn or it needs any dbus magic ?23:01
* lardman goes to grab some food + vino, bbiab23:02
marcusmlcuk: Shouldn't it be the PC?23:02
lcukmarcusm, good point23:02
marcusmlcuk: We wouldn't want him to look stupid, you know.23:02
meceI like it that chromium on n900 completely owns googles own phone on googles own test :D23:03
mecemakes me all warm inside.23:03
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SpeedEvilmece: Are you perhaps overclocking - leading the the warm feeling?23:04
meceno I'm not23:04
lardmanit needs drag functionality23:04
lardmanand is a bit slow on the rendering, but once rendered is bloody fast23:04
mecev3 results:
mecev5 results:
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lardmanactually it's not slow rendering, but rather insists on rendering everything before becoming responsive23:05
* lardman goes back to the oven23:05
mecelardman, yeah, it's annoying.23:05
mecethe competition:
Shapeshifterwhat kind of comparison is that23:06
Shapeshifterare we comparing shopping trolleys to road trains now?23:06
Shapeshifteriphone and eeepc on the same chart?23:08
meceeeepc is for reference-23:09
mecejust look at nexus iphone ipad and n900 chrome.23:09
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meceit will make you smile.,23:09
mecemy n900 got 133 and 128.23:09
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mecenot overclocked.23:09
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: where's your autoresponder for ".*overclock.*" ?23:11
GAN900All talk and no action?23:11
GAN900I mean, come on, I'm a /community/ guy. :P23:11
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DocScrutinizeryeah, some folks attach that label to me as well ;-D23:12
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Shapeshiftermece: I got 168 just now23:14
ShapeshifterSo now I'm supposed to smile?23:14
mecewell the nexus got 63, so yeah.23:14
meceyour n900 beat the crap out of googles own phone in googles own test.23:15
Shapeshifterwell in any case, the chromium port for the n900 is quite nice, but it's just a dirty port, nothing more. In badly need for kinetic scrolling!23:15
* DocScrutinizer has withdrawal syndrome from 1h of ssh to his N900 a few hours ago. Now it's at Nokia, to fix23:15
meceyep yep23:15
ds3what did you break, DocScrutinizer?23:16
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Shapeshiftermece: but still, what does it matter? what matters is only the *feeling* of speed and smoothness23:16
DocScrutinizerprobably the friffin main dlat plastic cable to connect the LCD had a trace broken23:16
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: sad to hear :(23:17
meceShapeshifter, well it feels really really fast once a page is loaded imo. But it's not comfortable to use, so I use microb.23:17
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Shapeshiftermece: well scrolling isn't smooth23:17
meceit isn't?23:17
ds3DocScrutinizer: any idea how it broke?23:17
Shapeshiftermece: well I got used to the n900 scrolling performance, but it's *not* what I'd call smooth. This is plain personal preference. I just like smooth stuff.23:18
Shapeshifterlike furry little kittens23:18
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DocScrutinizeryeah, it's kinda ridiculous when your device works like a charm, but you can't use it because screen is black. I'm not *that* good in working blind without feedback23:18
E0xDocScrutinizer: use the force !23:19
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meceI put a cursor on my n900 to aid use of x11vnc. Haven't remembered to actually try it. The cursor is nice though.23:22
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embedded  :)23:25
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V13you took n900 on another dimension :)23:29
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SpeedEvilOverclocking that way is complex.23:31
SpeedEvil(with a large imaginary component)23:31
anvith3how do i restart the dbus service on my Nokia N810 NIT23:31
V13I believe this is the first mobile phone running at 1.7GHz23:32
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dmj726_n900hmm...clutter might make an excellent base for making 2D and 2.5D games.23:32
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, you did send it back to Nokia?23:32
MohammadAGso.. how can one copy 12GBs from one linux device to the other without a hard disk23:33
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: rsync23:33
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V13try sftp23:33
V13or scp23:33
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: I backed up my 16G laptop / with rsync23:33
SpeedEvilworked well23:33
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anvith3how do i restart the dbus service on my Nokia N810 NIT23:33
MohammadAGV13, that would take time23:34
noobmonk3yreboot? :D23:34
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, rsync?23:34
V13anvith3: I believe there are two dbuses... one system and one user. The system dbus restarts most probably as /etc/init.d/dbus restart23:34
* MohammadAG googles it23:34
V13the user dbus is kill & restart but it may cause problems (e.g require rebot)23:34
V13why do you want to restart it ?23:34
V13MohammadAG: you want one file or many ?23:34
E0xMohammadAG: nfs23:34
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E0xyou share the folder where the file are and mount it using nfs23:35
E0xin the linuxbox-B23:35
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V13i no way is nfs faster that a tcp transfer23:36
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V13even if it has compression23:36
anvith3@V13 i have sshed into the device in root login and tryin to run a python script which invokes another python script which inturn is accessing an application. i have created a .service file. it's on the lines of the libosso RPC example.23:36
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: repair shop23:36
E0xV13: i not mean copy the whole 12Gb23:36
V13oh.. ok23:37
anvith3the manual says to restart the app framework to restart the dbus daemon23:37
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anvith3but did not say how to do it on the device23:37
anvith3V13: /etc/init.d/dbus restart throws error run-parts: unrecognized option `--reverse'23:38
anvith3BusyBox v1.6.1 (2008-09-18 09:43:17 EEST) multi-call binary23:38
anvith3Usage: run-parts [-t] [-l] [-a ARG] [-u MASK] DIRECTORY23:38
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V13dunno... perhaps there is dbus reload ?23:38
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ghostcube_maemocute explorer update fails cause of missing qt libs :)23:39
anvith3there is a force-reload option23:40
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anvith3but it throws the same error23:40
V13perhaps killall dbus-daemon; sleep 1 ; dbus-daemon --system& ?23:41
V13this will kill the user's dbus as well23:41
V13ad I see that the system dbus is started as another user23:41
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fralslizardo: cheers, will test it when i get home again :)23:42
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V13su -c "killall dbus-daemon ; sleep 1 ; /usr/bin/dbus-daemon --system" - messagebus23:42
V13could work23:42
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DocScrutinizerkilling dbus seems to reboot the system23:43
anvith3i found out the hard way23:44
V13sry :)23:44
anvith3i just tried to run-parts23:44
anvith3which actually runs all the scripts in a directory23:44
anvith3on the /etc/init.d directory23:45
anvith3 i forgot that it also has the kill and reboot and shutdown scripts23:45
anvith3silly me23:45
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MohammadAGV13, a whole 12GBs of files23:46
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E0xMohammadAG: compress it23:49
E0xcan save a lot of space23:49
E0xand the transport it23:49
V13sftp -C23:50
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* noobmonk3y mumbles23:52
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anvith3i tried rebooting the device but the .service file is not getting registered . how do i check if the .service file is registered with dbus?23:52
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anvith3everything works in scratch box23:53
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