IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-04-11

jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: what have you done to it?00:00
DocScrutinizernothing, I promise, I swear00:01
jacekowskido you think anybody is going to belive in that00:01
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DocScrutinizersome of the guys that *know* me actually believe it. They'd never believe I did something wrong on such a simple task like disassembling a phone into 15 parts and then reassemble it00:03
MohammadAG_what exactly happened to it then?00:03
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jacekowskithird_party/ffmpeg/source/patched-ffmpeg-mt/libavcodec/arm/dsputil_neon.S:255: Error: bad instruction `vld1.64 {d0,d1},[r1],r2'00:04
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MohammadAG_a disassemble/reassemble should be easy :P00:04
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DocScrutinizerthat's a very good question, as everything is working just fine, except LCD *AND* backlight *AND* AV-video00:04
* MohammadAG_ remembers when disassembled his PS3, didn't fix it but it was broken from the start00:04
javispedrojacekowski: my as supports that and assembles that opcode to f4210ac2.00:05
javispedrojacekowski: time to check for sdk upgrades? :P00:05
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jacekowskilatest one00:05
MohammadAG_DocScrutinizer, ctrl shift x, install x11vnc, see if it works :p00:05
javispedrojacekowski: are you invoking the arm toolchain as, and properly passing mfpu=neon ?00:05
jacekowskiit's again scratchbox problem00:06
ShadowJKjacekowski, you must pass -mcpu=cortex-a8 to the assembler too00:06
ShadowJKjacekowski, ASFLAGS probably00:06
DocScrutinizerfrom all I understand that could only be caused by either break in SoC DSP/FB, or a partial break in main FPC and system switchin off LCD backlight and AV when detecting problems on talking to LCD00:06
javispedroShadowJK: actually, -mcpu=cortex-a8 is in gcc.specs, as is -mfpu=vfp00:07
ShadowJKjavispedro, don't you want -mfpu=neon? :)00:07
javispedroShadowJK: ep, discard that (gcc). but as doesn't need -mcpu00:07
ShadowJKIt does.00:07
ShadowJKAtleast on arm.00:07
javispedrono, just -mfpu=neon00:07
javispedroI just tested it a few lines above :)00:07
ShadowJKThe current SDK compiles ffmpeg fine with the correct parameters anyway, so if it's not working you're doing it wrong :D00:08
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aolanyone got fix for this issue? Nokia-N900-51-1:~# apt-get update00:31
aolE: Could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/lists/lock - open (2 No such file or directory)00:31
aolcan install anything anymore :(00:32
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aolI'm logged in as root00:34
aolalso application manager does not even try to do anything00:36
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GAN900iPad -- ghosting city.00:38
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GAN900and no free applications00:39
javispedroGAN900: of course there will be free applications: ad based.00:39
javispedrothe future of computing!00:39
fralsvictory, got all contacthandling in fmms done using libosso-abook and ctypes \o/00:40
fralslizardo == king of awesomeness00:40
jacekowskii'm not using mms at all00:40
aolApple invented free apps with iPad00:40
aolamazing & magical00:41
lizardofrals: :)00:41
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GAN900Form factor is impossible to type on.00:45
frals~curse virtualbox00:45
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, virtualbox !00:45
fralswants me to upgrade and after upgrading it wont start my virtual machines anymore, great >_<00:46
javispedroGAN900: lack of stylus seems ridiculous to me.00:46
javispedronotepad form factor without stylus. madness!00:47
GAN900javispedro, meh, more like too big to reach your thumbs anywhere.00:47
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ShadowJKalso too big to hold while typing :)00:48
GAN900Screen is very pretty00:50
GAN900App Store is almost as slow as h-a-m00:50
* javispedro ponders why we're discussing the tablet form factor like if it was new00:50
GAN900Lots of ghosting, though.00:50
javispedros/tablet/big tablet00:50
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GAN900Wee, laggy games00:51
javispedroi've always seen tablet pcs and they're great for taking notes. they even do nice handwriting recognition.00:51
DocScrutinizer~rot13 ipad tablet00:51
infobotvcnq gnoyrg00:51
javispedroDocScrutinizer: "rg", like your first name! are you related to steve jobs?00:52
javispedro( ;) )00:52
GAN900lol, can't tap outside to dismiss00:54
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: isn't spyPad c-ts?01:01
DocScrutinizerso stylus?!01:01
javispedrosausage stylus01:02
javispedroat least you'd be able to DOODLE notes!!01:02
DocScrutinizerI prefer Wieners01:02
* javispedro envisions himself taking notes at a lecture with a wiener01:02
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DocScrutinizermaybe Steve can build next one with mustard dispenser01:03
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yigalmostly listening to music what is a rough estimate on battery life on a full charge for the n900?01:04
yigalthank you DocScrutinizer looking at this thread is really not so productive
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yigalwhen it comes to trying to discern if the stock battery set up will work for my needs01:06
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yigalso if I want to use it as an ebook reader + music player ~ 5 hours?01:06
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DocScrutinizeryigal: at least, yes.01:07
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DocScrutinizerdepends on brightness setting of screen backlight01:08
yigalDocScrutinizer interesting blog entry01:08
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yigalffvorbis for ogg playback01:09
yigalDocScrutinizer for a low setting is ~6 hours possible?01:10
yigalbrightness that is01:10
DocScrutinizerI'd say easily01:10
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GAN900Giant freaking margins in all of the book readers.01:12
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yigalare there any alternative batteries that have a bit more juice than the stock, without turning the n900 into the size of a bread box?01:14
yigalsorry, I know I'm covering threads but so much changes over so little time, that I may as well ask01:14
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johnsu01I bought one of those thinkgeek wrist batteries, but I haven't confirmed yet that it for sure works with the n900 (I had to buy a mini-micro adapter for it) -- but it should01:15
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yigalso an extra official nokia battery is ~$3001:17
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yigalhand crank :D01:18
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nidOyou're much better just buying a powermonkey or similar01:19
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yigal nidO right01:19
yigalthat makes sense01:19
Pengman`yogen crank thing looks pretty good for cranking01:19
nidOI have an external battery for mine with solar panels on it01:20
nidOthe battery itself isnt that amazing though, with hindsight i'd not bother with the solar capability and just get a new powermonkey with a better battery01:20
yigalnidO: ?01:20
yigalis that the one you have?01:20
nidOno, mine has a considerably smaller solar array than that, it doesnt flip open01:21
nidOat a guess the device is probably similar length-width (but not as thick) and just has the solar panel on the top surface01:21
yigalah, ya, that device looks nice but 2000mah is there something with a bit more juice?01:22
nidOpowermonkeys start at about 2000mAh for the base models01:22
nidOand theyre a known reputable brand, and the batteries actually have the capacity quoted01:22
nidOmy solar charger quotes 2000mAh as well but in practicality it's more like 150001:23
yigalso roughly an extra n900 battery01:23
yigala little more01:23
nidOeffectively yeah, my charger ends up with a small amount of power left after fully charging the n90001:24
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nidOno idea whether the battery in that dealxtreme one will be any better though01:24
nidObut I do know that powermonkey ones are the power they quote01:24
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yigalI'm looking at the powermonkey website01:25
nidOthe classic is 2200mah01:26
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yigalnidO: that's almost what I want just a little more :)01:26
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DocScrutinizerget a battery holder fpr 3 * A monocell, and solder a usb jack to it. N900 should charge from 4V501:27
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nidOwell, theres always the powergorilla - thats 21,000mah at 5v, but kinda bulky ;)01:28
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* ShadowJK has a Tekkeon MP155001:28
ShadowJKsoldered D+ and D- together on it and it charges N900 fine01:28
DocScrutinizeryep, charges at 500mA at least, probably at 1000mA01:29
ShadowJKDepends mostly on the cells inside it :)01:29
yigalRight I don't have a soldering kit, nor experience, what's the difficulty level to do that?01:29
nidOits easy as pie, if you have a soldering kit and have any vague knowledge on how to solder01:30
ShadowJKif I can do it, most people can do it01:30
nidOif you dont, a powermonkey's the easy alternative01:30
yigalnidO: oh, 1+ lbs. that's out of the question01:30
ShadowJKactually, getting the thing opened up in the first place was hard01:30
ShadowJKtekkeon might have proper microusb tips by now..01:30
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yigalI'm fine with tools, but as I said I don't have any soldering experience01:31
DocScrutinizerget a CA-101, cut the A-plug, connect the VBUS to +4V5, the black to -, short the 2 remaining wires.01:32
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DocScrutinizerprobably you find a way to get away without any soldering at all01:32
nidObare wire ends and some tape01:33
nidOwould probably manage it01:33
* MohammadAG__ wonders if there is any hope for host-mode (not OTG)01:33
DocScrutinizerthere is01:33
nidOprobably not all that durable though01:33
yigalwell I'm glad there are options for extended cell life01:33
DocScrutinizersee ff01:34
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DocScrutinizerand don't forget to 'Thank' :-P01:34
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MohammadAG__DocScrutinizer, I'd be lying to you if I said I understood something in there01:35
MohammadAG__but thanked anyways :p01:35
* MohammadAG__ just found out joerg_rw is DocScrutinizer 01:35
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: /cs ghost MohammadAG_01:38
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, so, OTG is a possibility too?01:38
DocScrutinizeror vice versa01:38
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, XChat's running, it's autorejoin01:38
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DocScrutinizerOTG is probably too complex to be done correctly with the existing hardware01:38
MohammadAGisn't it nickserv (ns)?01:38
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DocScrutinizeryes, and yes01:39
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, so from what I understand, OTG is host-mode + power01:39
MohammadAGcorrect me if I'm wrong01:39
MohammadAGhost mode would allow data, but external power has to be supplied01:39
DocScrutinizernope, hostmode is with power01:39
MohammadAGerrordeveloper, so what's the difference?01:40
MohammadAGwhy do I keep tabbing01:40
DocScrutinizerOTG is a complex negotiation between two gadgets about who's host and who's gadget01:40
MohammadAGsorry errordeveloper01:40
MohammadAGso basically, host mode would work without this negotiation (a forced mode switch from client to host)01:41
DocScrutinizermompls, get you a link01:41
DocScrutinizer  enjoy :-S01:42
* MohammadAG reads
DocScrutinizerOTG includes such funny things like pulsing VBUS power line and checking how large a capacitor is on the 'other end'01:43
DocScrutinizeralso different suspend-modes etc01:44
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* lcuk_unsec curses pyqt installation on windas701:44
MohammadAGwhich I'm assuming isn't needed for host mode01:44
DocScrutinizernobody really needs that, and it seems nobody completely and correctly supports OTG01:45
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yigalShadowJK: $20 for a real power solution, Wow incredible Tekkeon MP1550, not solar but solar can't always be counted on.01:46
ShadowJKand $15 for 4 nimh cells, and a charger..01:46
ShadowJKbut I already had that01:46
lcuk_unseci would like to see vodka powered computers01:47
ShadowJKSolar has the disadvantage that you need to put it in tropical sun for a day :)01:47
ShadowJKBefore it charges your battery halfway01:48
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, just curious, enabling host-mode (when that's figured out), doesn't require any hardware modifications right?01:48
yigalShadowJK: oh, I was mistaken so the batteries themselves can't be charged with the Tekkeon MP1550, it only can feed devices not receive?01:49
MohammadAG(the cable male to female converter isn't what I'm referring to)01:49
ShadowJKYou put 4 nimh cells in it, then you can charge it with usb cable from your computer, or you can use it to charge other stuff01:49
ShadowJKI forget it's actually able to charge the batteries inside too, I've never used it01:49
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: right, no hw-mods needed.01:49
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, thanks! :)01:50
fralslcuk_unsec: what are you going to do with qt? :)01:50
yigalShadowJK: very cool, I might try for a slightly fancier deal with solar but this device looks great01:51
lcuk_unsecfrals just playing - but tracy has told me i cant change OS on the big pc01:51
lcuk_unsecso i need to make the stuff i must have in something i can use everywhere01:52
fralshe, pyqt is pretty good then id assume :)01:52
lcuk_unseci pondered goin back and using vb - but i thought i might as well reevaluate python01:52
fralsvb *shrugs*01:53
lcuk_unseci did first liq* tests on n810 in pygtk01:53
lcuk_unsecbut performance was bad01:53
lcuk_unsecits a bit better now - tho still not ideal01:53
fralswell something gotta give when you use a dynamic language like python01:53
lcukfrals, nahh this is glue01:54
lcukthe slowness is coming from QPainter.* calls01:54
ShadowJKgtk is perfectly able to slow things down by itself without python ;)01:54
fralsah, i see01:54
lcuki noticed it in native qt with colliding mice example01:54
lcuk(base example in qt creator01:54
fralswinge some at w00t_, isnt he a qt dev? :D01:55
lcuki bumped the mouse count to something realistic - 5001:55
lcukive spoken01:55
lcukanyway i also put my liq* rosetta test in place01:55
lcukand it turned out - not ideal but close enough -  similar to the kind of result i had with original liqbase in the beginning01:56
lcukenough to squint and see it working01:56
fralswow i can barely read that :P01:57
jacekowskihave anybody tried to install chrome from my packages01:57
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lcukincidentally, the same block using liqsketches native:
jacekowskiand can check where does it install extensions?01:57
fralslcuk: damn, quite a difference01:57
lcukits extremely simplistic01:57
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lcukbut i have a baseline to work from and towards01:57
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lcukill use proper qt where needed01:58
lcukbut rendering speed needs increasing dramatically in places01:58
LiraNunaugh, I can't seem to ssh/ping my device from my computer01:58
LiraNunabut I can do the reverse!01:59
lcukpython loops holding variables shouldnt cause that much of a slowdown, theres no real processing being done actually in python so i excluded that fairly quick01:59
lcukLiraNuna, you poking the correct ip address..01:59
fralsLiraNuna: powersaving mode might be the culprit01:59
fralsie wlan powersavings01:59
LiraNunait's connected to USB01:59
LiraNunai.e charging01:59
LiraNunacan I make it NOT powersave when charging?01:59
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fralscould probably write a script to disable powersaving when a charger is plugged in... but not default from the ui afaik02:00
LiraNunahow can you disable powersaving?02:00
lcukLiraNuna, just test it by startign a download into tablet02:01
lcuksee if that is the problem02:01
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fralssettings -> internet connections -> connections -> (your wlan) -> edit -> next -> next -> next -> advanced -> other -> power saving02:01
jacekowskino valgrind for maemo02:01
LiraNunajacekowski, yaah02:02
jacekowskithat sucks02:02
jacekowskii'll have to port that as well02:02
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lcuk_unsecjacekowski: its no valgrind on arm02:02
LiraNunafrals, let's see..02:03
lcuk_unsecthe mechanism to do the grinding is different afaik02:03
LiraNunafrals, success!02:03
LiraNunawell, not really02:03
LiraNunait's more responsive, but 'faster'02:03
jacekowskithere is oprofile02:04
jacekowskibut that will just do part of thing i need02:04
LiraNunajacekowski, you can always run it on x86/_64 :/02:05
jacekowskinot really02:05
jacekowskii can do part of profiling02:05
LiraNunaI know it's not optimal02:05
jacekowskibut cache profiling is not going to happen02:05
LiraNunaah, I see02:05
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LiraNunafrals, it made it better but still not really usable02:06
jacekowskii could do it on x8602:06
b-man|laptophey, LiraNuna :)02:06
jacekowskiand make some assumptions02:06
LiraNuna'lo b-man|laptop02:06
lcukjacekowski, optimising it already?02:06
lcukhow well does it run02:06
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jacekowskinot very well yet02:07
jacekowskibut i want to have some preliminary figures02:08
LiraNunafrals, any more things I could try?02:08
fralsLiraNuna: dunno, sorry :<02:08
LiraNunaall I want is to run binaries on my N900 natively02:08
lcukLiraNuna, ?02:08
lcukur network is just being a cow?02:08
LiraNunalcuk, ssh/scp are so slow02:08
lcukhow slow is slow02:09
jacekowskinormal hing02:09
LiraNunaand the phone is right next to the router02:09
jacekowskiLiraNuna: that's problem number 102:09
LiraNunaI turned off powersaving for my home network02:09
lcukwithin 3foot close?02:09
LiraNunajacekowski, so it's known?02:09
LiraNunalcuk, 1cm close02:09
jacekowskiLiraNuna: radio devices don't work very well when they are too close02:09
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LiraNunajacekowski, I tried variable distances02:09
jacekowskiand other thing02:09
jacekowskiscp is slow by design02:09
LiraNunaI can't ssh as well02:10
lcukoh balls - that willirradiate the manifold and probably cause a burst in the em spectrum along the conduits02:10
jacekowskiunless you have fast cpu that can handle encryption02:10
LiraNunanor ping02:10
fralslol lcuk02:10
lcukLiraNuna, how do other computers on network operate02:10
lcukare they quick?02:10
LiraNunamy laptop, my N81002:10
lcukwhat protocol are they using02:10
jacekowskiLiraNuna: and what sort of WAP have you've got?02:10
jacekowskii mean02:10
jacekowskiwireless access point/router/whatever02:11
LiraNunaLinksys WRT350N02:11
jacekowskinot going to happen02:11
jacekowskirestart your router02:11
LiraNunaI got dd-wrt installed on it02:11
jacekowskiand notice that you will have communication working between devices02:11
jacekowskiand it will go away after some tim02:12
jacekowskithere is something seriously fucked up with linksys by fiasco02:12
jacekowskiit's overpriced crap02:12
LiraNunayou want to tell me I need to restart my router in order to develop?02:12
jacekowskior get netgear02:13
jacekowskior other brand02:13
lcuk:) LiraNuna is your 810 around02:13
jacekowskibut i had no problems with netgear02:13
lcukcan you connect happily to it right now02:13
LiraNunalcuk, yes, N810WE02:13
LiraNunalet me check02:13
lcukie - for at least some devices everything is rock solid02:13
lcuktry rebooting it anyway ;)02:13
LiraNunaI'm not rebooting my router with no reason02:14
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nidOdidnt you just get a reason?02:15
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lcukmeh i would just try it anyway - you have poked at 900 - try poking the other end02:15
lcukor spend however many hours scratching head (you still might anyway)02:16
LiraNunaN810WE is more or less the same02:16
LiraNunait worked fine yesterday02:16
LiraNuna87% packet loss,02:17
LiraNuna... brb02:17
lcukthats ok LiraNuna - sometimes *REBOOT ROUTER* shit happens02:17
nidOi wasnt reading, whats his problem?02:17
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lcuknidO, drastic underlying power fluctuations in his warp core matrix02:18
lcukerrr network02:18
nidOscotty clearly needs to go to 110%02:18
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lcukdumping the core and bringing it back on line should resolve the issue02:18
lcukbut he wont have porn for 4 minutes until it comes back up02:18
lcukcan you get us impulse engines mrscott?02:19
jacekowskibring more porn02:19
b-man17<-MemoServ-> hi there! It appears your bot TriviaBot is severely broken and keeps trying to join #freenode and then leaving.. bots are not allowed in #freenode so please fix this as soon as you can. Thanks!02:19 the hell is TriviaBot still alive!!?! - i deleted it from my computer months ago.. O_o02:19
lcukb-man17 that rox02:20
jacekowskib-man17: skynet02:20
b-man17ThiviaBot has gained a mind of it's own! xD02:20
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lcuk(Q4) Which IRC Robot recently auquired sentience?02:21
lcuk(a) trivia bot02:21
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lcuk(b) rm_you02:21
lcuk(c) GAN90002:21
b-man17i knew i should have not made it Antoninus lol02:21
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* b-man17 gears up for a rabid bot hunt02:22
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lcukits ok b-man17 they will just block it by ip02:22
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lcukand everything else from that ip ;)02:22
b-man17i hope it's not using my ip xD02:22
lcuktick tock02:23
b-man17tick tock?02:23
lcuktime until you are ip banned :p02:23
b-man17oh god xD02:24
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* b-man17 needs to talk with the server admins now02:24
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lcukyeah if its your you should find it02:24
lcukthat would actually make for a really cool thing02:25
b-man17but something tells me that it could be Archanamiya that was enabling the bot... after all, he's the original creator ;P02:25
b-man17i just enhanced it's abilities02:25
lcukyou are like the radioactive spider that bites peter parker?02:26
b-man17lol, i guess xDD02:26
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b-man17jacekowski: sure, maybe TriviaBot has become skynet xD02:29
b-man17and is plotting to get it's revenge for being abused soo badly02:30
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b-man17hmm, it appears that there are no staff on freenode at this time..02:33
b-man17* p :0 staff members02:33
b-man17* p :End of /STATS report02:33
b-man17hmm, /whois returns:02:34
b-man17[TriviaBot] ( UGN Security TriviaBot02:34
b-man17not my, nor Archanamiya's ip :S02:34
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DocScrutinizersounds strange, no?02:36
b-man17strange indeed02:36
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LiraNunathat's weird, calls to sqrtf hang02:44
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lcukLiraNuna, is network running fine now then?02:45
LiraNunalcuk, better, but still jumpy02:46
jacekowskii'm trying to make that code compile02:46
jacekowskiand one of modifications i did was02:46
jacekowski-#include <expat.h>02:46
jacekowski+#include "chrome/browser/autofill/autofill_xml_parser.h"02:46
jacekowskii've got no idea how02:46
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LiraNunaany idea why sqrtf won't return02:48
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LiraNunacode produced by GCC02:49
LiraNunasqrtf never returns02:49
jacekowskiwhat does it return?02:49
LiraNunait doesn't02:49
LiraNunasqrtf just hangs forever02:49
jacekowskishow me your C code02:49
LiraNuna~ $ ./sqrtf-test 102:50
LiraNunahangs forever02:50
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Fredrik1994is .ogg extension supporteded per default?02:51
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LiraNunaFredrik1994, not by default, but you can install a package for it02:51
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LiraNunago to application manager and install "Ogg Support"02:51
LiraNunajacekowski, compiled with arm-linux-gnueabi-g++ -s -O2 -mcpu=cortex-a8  sqrtf-test.cpp -o sqrtf-test02:51
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lcukLiraNuna, pastebin that code fragment02:52
lcuki bet your printf string is incorrect02:52
LiraNunasqrtf returns a float02:52
LiraNuna%f is perfectly fine02:52
lcukjust paste the code02:53
LiraNunaI did -
jacekowskibut he did02:53
lcukforget the asm02:53
lcuki was looking sorry02:53
jacekowski1. it's C code02:54
jacekowskicompile it with gcc02:54
jacekowskinot with g++02:54
LiraNunamakes no difference02:54
jacekowskiand change extensiion to C02:54
LiraNunamakes no difference02:54
lcukjust break it down02:54
Fredrik1994wrong window02:54
LiraNunalcuk, I did - sqrtf never returns02:54
lcuknice and simple and comment out things - theres only 3 blocks - also take of the optimization as first thing02:55
jacekowski[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > ./sqrtf-testpp 102:55
LiraNunalcuk, I did02:55
LiraNunano difference02:55
jacekowskiit's working on mine02:55
LiraNunasqrtf hangs no matter what02:55
jacekowski3 as far as i know02:55
jacekowski.fnend does all you need02:55
jacekowskican you send me your binary?02:55
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jacekowski-rwxr-xr-x  1 jacekowski jacekowski    15258 Apr 11 01:53 sqrtf-test02:57
jacekowski-rwxrwxr-x  1 jacekowski jacekowski     3239 Apr 11 01:55 sqrtf-testpp02:57
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jacekowskimine is stripped02:58
jacekowskibut why?02:58
LiraNunacause I didn't -s02:58
jacekowskii mean i compiled with same command02:58
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jacekowskianything else you did differently02:59
lcukcan you just build/run that02:59
LiraNunalcuk, sure... but it IS sqrtf02:59
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LiraNunahappens on another binary as well02:59
dssterGood evening, is anyone else having problems accessing the site? especially logging in?02:59
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LiraNuna~ $ ./sqrtf-test  103:00
LiraNunatesting 1, argc=203:00
LiraNunatesting 2, a=103:00
lcukLiraNuna, and then get rid of optimizations and other things - i have had strange stuff which only happens when doubles are used in my case03:00
lcukapp said whoops? :D03:00
LiraNunalcuk, no, it just hangs there03:01
xorAxAxis the builder broken on
xorAxAxmy package has 0 bytes03:01
lcuki used to reproducably get lockups on liqbase if i used doubles in my blitter03:01
jacekowskicheck log03:01
LiraNunano optimization03:01
jacekowskixorAxAx: what's package name?03:01
xorAxAxjacekowski: dwimd03:01
lcukLiraNuna, what about the other specific cpu options etc03:02
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LiraNunaI can remove if you want03:02
lcuk(i dont doubt there could be compiler problems03:02
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LiraNunalinking with -lm solves it03:02
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LiraNunawhy idn't it complain03:03
lcukthats not it is it03:03
lcukits part of it i think03:03
lcukthere must be a symbol defined somewhere giving sqrtf03:03
lcukotherwise build would fail03:04
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lcukLiraNuna, its not your night is it ;)03:04
* lcuk slides over a beer03:05
LiraNunait hangs again if I use .cpp / -lm03:05
lcuki gave up headscratching at windows03:05
LiraNunaI'm running Linux03:05
lcukim on about me03:05
LiraNunalcuk, question is03:06
LiraNunawhy doesn't GCC use VSQRT03:06
LiraNunaVFP instruction03:07
jacekowskiLiraNuna: works on my computer03:07
lcukvisual foxpro?03:07
LiraNunait's an ARM instruction03:07
jacekowskigcc isn't the best compiler03:07
jacekowskibut it's the only one03:07
lcukit depends on the asm mode doesnt it03:08
LiraNunaeven when adding -mfpu=vfpv303:08
jacekowskiwell, even on x86 simd instructions are barely supported03:08
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jacekowskii mean - it supports them03:08
jacekowskibut very rarely generates code for them03:08
LiraNunathat's not true03:08
LiraNunatry coding for x86_64 and do03:09
lcukyeah cos it has to identify patterns in its v1 code to replace03:09
LiraNunafloat max(float a, float b) { return a > b ? a : b; }03:09
LiraNunaand it'll use maxss03:09
LiraNunaSSE instruction03:09
LiraNunasame for min / minss03:09
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LiraNunaGCC is smart - don't take credits from it03:09
LiraNunajacekowski, please read
LiraNunaI am NOT a novice who can be told "GCC sucks deal with it"03:10
jacekowskiit's better in 4.x.x03:10
lcukso LiraNuna perhaps you could get into the gcc/arm mailing list area03:10
derfAnd there's approximately a thousand times more effort put into the x86 backend compared to ARM.03:10
jacekowskibut in 3.x was hopeless03:10
LiraNunaderf, I was refering to <jacekowski> well, even on x86 simd instructions are barely supported03:10
derfThe real reason gcc uses SSE for floating point is because the 80x87 FPU does horrible and confusing things to the precision.03:11
jacekowskiand there was recently lot of people moaning about icc generating much better code03:11
lcukLiraNuna, if you have the skills and time to identify/report/fix/improve gcc on arm then go for it :)03:11
LiraNunasqrtf() in GCC / x86_64 results into sqrtss03:11
derfSo once they had a way to stop using it, they jumped at the chance.03:11
lcukwe dont have an x86_64 here tho03:12
LiraNunaand I know how GCC's optimizer works, it recognizes sqrtf as an intrinsic NOT a function03:12
lcukactually, gcc must be better than i would have made it03:12
LiraNunaunless it's in softfp mode03:12
lcukat least it KNOWS not to try making a sqrtss instruction on arm :D03:12
* LiraNuna investigates03:12
LiraNunait's multilib time03:13
lcukits prolly a thumb issue isnt it03:13
derfThat said, gcc still does a pretty bad job of generating _actual_ SIMD job (which is no insult to gcc... doing so from C is extremely difficult; nobody does it well).03:13
lcukvery minimal instructionset ?03:13
LiraNunalcuk, asm shows ARM mode03:13
derf*SIMD code03:13
LiraNunaderf, auto-vectorization sucks everywhere03:13
derfI just said that.03:13
LiraNunayeah, I don't expect the compiler to do that anyway03:13
LiraNunaanyway, it's multilib time03:14
derfThough it would be a lot easier from, say, FORTRAN.03:14
* lcuk runs through LiraNuna's house and turns off his router unexpectedly03:14
LiraNuna/quit #maemo Connection Timed Out03:14
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LiraNunasomething makes GCC go into softfp mode03:15
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dssterHas anyone here tried rtorrent on their n900?03:23
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LiraNunaI knew it!03:24
LiraNunawhat the hell?!03:24
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LiraNunayou're kidding...03:27
LiraNunasqrtf-test.cpp:1: sorry, unimplemented: -mfloat-abi=hard and VFP03:27
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DocScrutinizer<trollmode>if you need fp to code your app, then probably the app isn't worth to be coded at all</trollmode>03:28
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LiraNunaif it wasn't for the trollmode tags, I'd shoot you in place03:28
jacekowskijacekowski:/var/log/apache2# cat access.log | grep chromiu | wc -l03:29
jacekowskiX-Fade: have you thought about making package download statistics for
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b-man|laptopok, i fixed the TriviaBot issue - killed it's account xD03:31
LiraNunafsqrtss15, s1703:33
b-man|laptopDocScrutinize, i got a note stating "hi there! It appears your bot TriviaBot is severely broken and keeps trying to join #freenode and then leaving.. bots are not allowed in #freenode so please fix this as soon as you can. Thanks!"03:34
b-man|laptopand apparently the bot grew a mind of it's own - because i deleted the bot from my computer months ago03:35
LiraNunalcuk, derf, see? GCC is perfectly capable of using HW accel floats03:35
MohammadAGis a bot suitable in #maemo?03:35
MohammadAGa trivia one03:35
b-man|laptophell no xDD03:35
lcukLiraNuna, cool beans03:35
derfAnd what did you have to do to fix it?03:35
MohammadAGb-man|laptop, thought you were bringing one in...03:35
b-man|laptopdelete it's account03:35
b-man|laptopMohammadAG: this was freenode in general, not #maemo03:36
LiraNunaderf, I enabled softabi03:36
LiraNuna arm-linux-gnueabi-g++ -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -O2 -S sqrtf-test.cpp -o sqrtf-test03:36
b-man|laptopi had to contact an admin and he helped me delete the account03:36
MohammadAGb-man|laptop, ah kk03:36
MohammadAGjust /ns drop it03:36
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LiraNunathis should be default in the toolchain03:37
b-man|laptopMohammadAG: i almost had to use a special password reset key xD03:38
DocScrutinizerb-man|laptop: I know the background. I fail to see which account you deleted, as wouldn't use any account you could delete?03:38
b-man|laptopDocScrutinizer: the account was under my name, so i was able to remove it03:39
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DocScrutinizerhmm, so how as the italian bot able to register with your account & pw?03:40
lcukmafia got hold of it and subverted it to their needs03:40
b-man|laptopDocScrutinizer: i originally created the account to have a trivia bot under #maemo-trivia, but when i decided to take it down, i forgot to remove the bot's account03:41
b-man|laptopas for the strange activities sense then, i have no idea :S03:42
DocScrutinizerwe are talking about a freenode nickserv account, or what?03:42
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lcukand the bot was hardcoded to use these credentials?03:42
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b-man|laptoplcuk: if you mean hardwired account information, no03:43
lcukok, so somehow someone has binary+config of your bot03:43
DocScrutinizerso again, where from got the italian bot the password to register with 'your' freenode account?03:43
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DocScrutinizerbtw when you delete an account, it's probably damn easy to recreate it03:45
b-man|laptopDocScrutinizer: i created the bot's account while i was identifies as 'b-man17' in freenode, so it created the account under the name of b-man1703:45
DocScrutinizeryou probably better had changed the password03:45
b-man|laptopi did03:45
lcukand get a fake identity03:45
lcukwe should put you in witless protection03:46
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b-man|laptopDocScrutinizer: it used a septate account password than my account from the start ;)03:46
b-man|laptopit was just 'under my name'03:47
DocScrutinizerI never thought different03:47
DocScrutinizerstill it'd be better to keep the account and just change the password03:48
b-man|laptopi deleted the account03:48
ech0Asusanyone know how to scan other channels besides 6?03:48
DocScrutinizerso now everybody is free to reclaim it03:48
ech0Asuscause that would be sick..03:48
b-man|laptopDocScrutinizer: the nickname sure, the actual account using the nickname no longer exists03:49
b-man|laptoplcuk: i'll move to London xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD03:50
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DocScrutinizerwell polonium is toxic only for Russians in London03:52
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LiraNunajacekowski, apparently valgrind doesn't support ARM04:09
LiraNunachecking host system type... arm-unknown-linux-gnueabi04:09
LiraNunachecking for a supported CPU... no (arm)04:09
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lindi-LiraNuna: there are patches04:10
LiraNunaright, but it's incomplete04:10
lindi-LiraNuna: there has been progress in 200904:11
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robtaylorlindi-: oh, awesome! i don't suppose there's a git tree anywhere?04:13
LiraNunalindi-, well, it's not on 3.504:14
LiraNunaanywhere I can get the source from?04:14
robtaylorLiraNuna: it looks like sid's valgrind has a bunch of armel support patches in04:15
DocScrutinizerlindi-: :-) o/04:16
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ech0Asusgrr i want to apt-get install skype but it dont work :(04:17
lindi-robtaylor: well the 2009 patches are in at least04:17
povbotBug 126449: was not found.04:17
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LiraNunaech0Asus, skype is built into N900; if you're in N810/N800 it should be in the default repository04:18
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ech0Asusi don't like the built in skype04:18
ech0Asusi can't check my voicemails04:18
LiraNunagood point, file a bug?04:19
povbotBug 7470: N900 does not support Skype Voicemail Settings04:19
LiraNuna"This is currently being worked on"04:19
robtaylorLiraNuna: LiraNuna: interestingly, it looks like a lot of arm valgrind support is going into lucid's package, with some guy from arm working on it04:20
LiraNunarobtaylor, interesting04:20
ech0Asusi installed easy debian just to try and see if i could get it installed through that but its not there :(04:20
* robtaylor guesses google are paying for that04:20
LiraNunaso, can we get lucid on the N900? :D04:20
andresech0Asus: should be there in the next weeks (1.2)04:20
LiraNunaech0Asus, skype desktop doesn't have ARM version04:20
robtaylorLiraNuna: just dget the package and build under sb04:20
DocScrutinizerech0Asus: surprise surprise04:20
robtaylorLiraNuna: though YMMV ;)04:20
LiraNunaYMMV == ?04:21
robtaylorLiraNuna: your mileage may vary04:21
ech0Asusany way to scan more then chan 6?04:21
LiraNunaI don't use scratchbox04:21
LiraNunaI got my own toolchain04:21
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DocScrutinizerech0Asus: [2010-04-10 17:31:47] <DocScrutinizer> you're aware skype binary is closed-source, (c) skype/ebay, and even crypted?04:23
LiraNunaech0Asus, just wait a bit -
LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, apparently they work really hard on crypting it, they even got anti-debugger code04:24
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robtaylorLiraNuna: ah, you could grab the package and then apply the patches.04:24
DocScrutinizerLiraNuna: I know :-D04:24
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LiraNunaDocScrutinizer, I take it you saw that lecture?04:25
DocScrutinizerblackhat? yep04:25
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dssterhas anyone tried running PSX4Pandora on the N900? Looks like they did a pretty good job with it.. cpu and gpu is identical to n90004:26
LiraNunadsster, should be trivial, pandora uses Linux too04:27
ech0Asusanyone else installed anything with easy debian? i got aircrack workin with it just locked on chan 6 for some lame reason lol..04:27
ech0Asusiceweasel works pretty good...04:27
DocScrutinizerech0Asus: yep, noticed that as well. Seems to be a 'known issue'04:28
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ech0Asusis known issue fixable? lol04:29
dssteryeah they are using gentoo04:29
LiraNunadsster, I can't seem to find anything (binary or source) about PSX4Pandora04:30
DocScrutinizerdunno, might be a wifi firmware issue04:30
dssterLiraNuna: gimme a min. i'll find it. I would test myself but I just order my n900 yestorday :)04:30
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ech0Asushrm wonder what bluetooth tools could be installed with easy debian...04:35
ech0Asusnever played with bt before..04:35
dssterLiraNuna: it's hard to find for me too. I'll keep looking04:35
LiraNunadsster, when you find source/binary - tell me :)04:36
ech0Asushrm, ill check app list from backtrack and see if any are in synaptic :)04:36
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lcukLiraNuna, before i forget04:47
lcukthe arm asm stuff you found earlier04:47
lcukcould you do a blog post or amend whichever wiki page is reqd with info on how people can make sure the hardware ops are used04:48
lcuk(since im guessing you didnt need to actually rebuild gcc itself)04:48
LiraNunahold on04:48
LiraNunaLiraNuna, for best results, I think -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp04:49
LiraNunadunno if you need more04:49
lcukbut irc is very poor for retention and information transfer to > sum of people listed there and paying attention04:49
lcuka "best practices optimising builds on maemo" sort of post would be what im thinking i suppose04:50
LiraNunaI'm busy atm04:50
lcuki know04:50
LiraNunasorry, just Ctrl+R'd on my termina04:50
lcukand a blog post for a single bit of info isnt needed :p04:51
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lcukbut it would be good to build this sort of knowledge up or add to things if they are there04:52
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jacekowskii think i have working package04:59
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jacekowskii don't even have blog05:02
jacekowskimy only existence in internet is in irclogs05:02
jacekowskiand some forum posts05:02
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jacekowskiwhich ussualy end up in me showing my antisocial behaviour05:03
jacekowski( that's why i don't have blog )05:03
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jacekowskican anybody check something for me?05:04
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jacekowskiand, is there any article/wiki entry/whatever about general UI guidelines05:05
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ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: in the maemo 5 sdk they had some stuff05:13
ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: but intertwined with hildon programming05:13
dssterLiraNuna: I found the guy who wrote it. ZodTTD is a cool dude. Still trying to find the source05:14
rm_youaight, I guess texrat didn't go to TX Linuxfest :(05:16
rm_youmet a couple other maemo people there though05:16
rm_youwhich was cool :)05:16
jacekowskiptl_demands_PR12: do you ever sleep?05:17
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ptl_demands_PR12jacekowski: I slept all day today :) and I also slept (somewhat) with my new girlfriend before that, a few hours earlier05:28
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dssterLiraNuna: are you still there?05:33
dssterLiraNuna: I believe I found something05:33
dssterWhat version of psx4all is n900 using? Is it the one ZodTTD updates?05:35
dssterI was searching for hours :(05:36
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jacekowskii'm just wondering if removing unused parts from repository would be good idea05:40
jacekowski( other platform versions and etc. )05:40
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dssteranyone here know what the hell is a .gpe file format?05:45
luke-jrprobably something for GPE?05:46
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luke-jranyhow, file formats are foo/bar, not .foo05:47 is just part of the filename and can be anything05:47
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dssterthis is all i found from psx4pandora05:53
dssterThis looks like it's for palm os?05:55
DocScrutinizerfile *.gpe05:55
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dssterdid you find what file type is it?06:00
DocScrutinizerwho? me??06:01
DocScrutinizerI got no .gpe here to issue a 'file *.gpe' cmd06:02
dssterso you downloaded and extracted that zip file and file *.gpe gave you that error?06:03
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dssterjust ignore me lol, I still don't have the Nokia N900 and I'm going way ahead of myself here06:04
dssterJust would be cool to have psx emu running at 100% out of the box with no o/c06:04
dssterThat dude ZoddT wrote some good code which allowes psx4pandora to run at 600mhz faster then 100% speed. So I thought why can't it be run on N900 since same hardware or nearly identical06:05
dsster<- got over excited.06:06
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dssterdamn it i was looking at the wrong device this whole time06:09
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dssterthat repo release was not for linux at all thats why i was so confused06:10
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crashanddieBrilliant article:
crashanddiedsster: please stop talking to yourself :P06:12
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crashanddiedsster: .gpe files are games for GP2X06:23
crashanddiedsster: google would've told you that06:23
* GeneralAntilles finds the device really underwhelming.06:23
crashanddiewhat device?06:23
GeneralAntillesI think it's crippled from the fact that every little goddamn thing has to be monetized.06:23
crashanddieI dunno, I think it's fun06:24
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I just wish the haters would get over it and start talking about other stuff already06:24
jacekowskii like hardware06:24
jacekowskiui is quite nice as well06:24
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I've been quite bored with it.06:25
jacekowskibut os sucks a lot06:25
GeneralAntillesTrying to find interesting software, but it's all very expensive06:25
GeneralAntillesNo multitasking is a bear06:25
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: don't misunderstand me, I don't mind a good, well constructed argument explaining why the iPad is bad (the typography article is excellent in that way), but all the threads that just say "HAHA, IT SUCKS" is getting old.06:25
jacekowskiand apple policy06:25
jacekowskii mean - iphone 3g or 3gs running maemo - that would be almost perfect phone06:26
crashanddieerm, no06:26
jacekowski+ maybe memory card support06:26
crashanddiebecause Maemo sucks as a phone software06:26
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jacekowskiit makes phone calls06:26
crashanddiethere's a bunch of things it can't do, and Nokia isn't throwing enough devs at it06:26
GeneralAntillesThe resolution on the iPhone sucks06:26
GeneralAntillesCapacitive sucks.06:26
GeneralAntillesNo thanks.06:26
crashanddieNo real keyboard...06:27
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luke-jr :)06:27
pwnguinon the other hand, it has ringtones per contact06:27
luke-jr(warning: use Chrome or Firefox)06:27
crashanddiepwnguin: indeed, and real call log, and support for conferences, and support for hold calls, and a responsive UI...06:27
microlithluke-jr: wardriving?06:28
GeneralAntillespwnguin, because it's a phone06:28
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crashanddieluke-jr: works fine on safari06:28
pwnguinGeneralAntilles: instead of what? a good phone?06:28
GeneralAntillespwnguin, the N900 is many other things before it's a phone.06:28
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pwnguinGeneralAntilles: ok, well the phoen app sucks06:29
GeneralAntillespwnguin, it's not a good phone06:29
GeneralAntillesbecause it's a mobile computer with phone functionality.06:29
GeneralAntillesIt's not a smartphone.06:29
crashanddieit's a stupidphone06:29
GeneralAntillesNo matter how much people want to pretend it is.06:29
pwnguinthis is a tired and stupid argument06:29
crashanddiepwnguin: agreed06:29
luke-jrcrashanddie: fine, sure, I imagine slow tho06:29
crashanddieluke-jr: not really06:29
jacekowskiSuccessfully uploaded packages.06:29
luke-jrmicrolith: I just avoid the same route twice06:29
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jacekowskii've just uploaded chromium06:29
GeneralAntillespwnguin, meh, buy the right device for your requirements.06:29
dssterI don't understand? All I need the phone part for is making phone calls? How is it not a good phone?06:29
jacekowskihopefully it's going to build06:29
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GeneralAntillespwnguin, if you need a strong phone, don't buy the N900.06:29
GeneralAntillesdsster, same here.06:30
pwnguinGeneralAntilles: nothing about the hardware stopping it from being a good phone06:30
* GeneralAntilles gets good reception, speaker-phone is loud and clear.06:30
crashanddiedsster: because you don't have the same requirements as everyone else?06:30
jacekowskiwhere i can see my build progress?06:31
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, same applies to everybody else.06:31
crashanddiedsster: I spend my days in phone conferences, my blackberry (well, when I had one) supports the ability to pre-program a calendar item as a phone conference, with the phone number and conference code. As soon as the time comes, the phone warns me there's a meeting, and I can click on "Dial", and 5 seconds later I'm in the conference06:31
crashanddieThis is not a patended feature, it's not a difficult feature to implement -- if the calendar was appropriately built, which it isn't.06:32
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pwnguini'd just be happy to have caldav06:32
GeneralAntillesWell, given limited resources, etc. . . .06:33
crashanddieYou can't expand the security of the device because those parts are closed source, you can't better the phone app of the device, because that's closed source, you can't better the mail/exchange part of the device, because it's closed source06:33
dssterSo just use a calender event and write a script to make a loud noise and dial into the conference 1 second before it starts06:33
GeneralAntillesSure, there are hundreds of little features you're welcome to point out which could make this or that better06:33
pwnguinim surprised caldav hasn't been hacked in given the evolution datastore06:33
GeneralAntillesBut those features add up to time requirements.06:33
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, mail is open.06:33
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I do realise that, trust me, I do06:33
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: MFE?06:33
GeneralAntillesIs closed06:33
pwnguinGeneralAntilles: the places where Nokia intentionally made it easy to diversify seem to have fantastic community response06:34
crashanddieHonestly, I would've spent hours hacking at the source code had I been given the chance06:34
pwnguinthree's all kinds of telepathy plugins06:34
pwnguinthere is06:34
GeneralAntillesAll, notably, from Nokia or Nokia contractors.06:34
pwnguinthere's a couple Sharing plugins i use06:34
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I just can't believe you can't adjust the margins in any of the book readers.06:35
GeneralAntillesWhat's the point of having a big, pretty screen if you can only use 75% of it?06:36
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: have you read the typography article?06:36
luke-jrpwnguin: Nokia didn't make Telepathy06:36
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: ^06:37
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GAN900crashanddie, yeah06:40
crashanddietime for lunch, 'later06:41
GAN900I like to differentiate between blasting Nokia for dedicating insufficient resources to the platform that will save them as a company in the long term and to blasting Maemo Devices for doing what they could with what they had06:41
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GAN900Which is why I usually argue in these discussions.06:42
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jacekowskii don't think that smartphones like n900 are that important for them06:42
jacekowskimost of people have simpler phones06:42
jacekowskiand they did smartest move they could06:43
jacekowskiuse linux06:43
luke-jrN900 isn't a smartphone06:43
jacekowskibut the point is06:43
luke-jrany recent news on the IS01?06:43
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jacekowskithat there is a lot of linux developers06:43
jacekowskiand lot of linux apps already06:44
jacekowskiit's just about porting them06:44
microlithjust porting apps won't get people to use them06:44
microlithat least, not if you're thinking beyond the immediate maemo community06:44
pwnguinwell, porting apps to a new UI aint easy. but having kajillion libraries that build helps06:44
* luke-jr notes most apps are not usable on N8x0 at least06:45
luke-jrmost people want apps designed for a smartphone ;)06:45
pwnguinhalfway between a billion and a jigawatt06:45
luke-jrgigawatt includes a unit06:46
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jacekowskiluke-jr: it's still simpler to teach linux developer how to make smartphone ui06:46
dssterSo back to the future?06:46
luke-jrjacekowski: sure; but give me enough RAM and I can just run KDE 4.4 :P06:46
jacekowskiluke-jr: than what iphone did, which was completly new platform running only on mac06:46
jacekowskikde 206:46
jacekowskior kde 3.x should work06:47
luke-jrnot interested06:47
luke-jrthey're both ancient and unmaintained06:47
jacekowskii built gentoo on 800Mhz duron with 256M ram06:47
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LiraNunais it known why N900's scrolling is laggy?06:47
jacekowskimaemo libraries are ancient as well06:47
luke-jrI run Gentoo on my N810 with however MHz it has and 128 MB RAM06:47
luke-jrKDE does not run too happy :(06:47
dssterwhy would you run kde? o.O06:47
luke-jrnothing better06:47
dsstergnome i would understand..06:48
luke-jrGNOME is awful06:48
LiraNunano it's not :(06:48
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luke-jrand when KDE barely runs, GNOME would no doubt fail to be even remotely useful06:48
luke-jrGNOME is terribly bloated and terribly UI06:48
jacekowskiquestion regarding updating system libraries - is it very bad if i would upgrade libexpat?06:48
njsftwm FTW!06:49
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luke-jrnjsf: I actually have twm installed just for that reason :P06:49
luke-jrtwm + arora is quite bearable06:49
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DocScrutinizerfsck kde4.406:49
DocScrutinizerbroken crap06:50
luke-jr4.3 works fine here06:50
luke-jrdid 4.4 break much?06:50
jacekowski4.0 was useless06:51
DocScrutinizerdunno 4.3.1 here, FFS06:51
luke-jrjacekowski: I agree06:51
luke-jrI switched with 4.1 IIRC06:51
luke-jrmaybe 4.206:51
jacekowskiamarok 2.0 is useless06:51
luke-jrat least 4.2 I grabbed early06:51
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DocScrutinizer4.3.1 still << KDE306:51
luke-jrI dumped Amarok crap for mplayer -playlist06:51
jacekowskipretty much kde 4 and amarok 2 caused me to just fuck linux and go back to windows06:51
jacekowskiamarok 1.4 was the best player i've had06:52
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luke-jrAmarok 1.4 was tolerable IMO, but far from sane06:52
luke-jrI kinda miss XMMS06:52
DocScrutinizerwhole KDE4 is a fsckng metoo-redmond-epigone06:52
DocScrutinizerand a can of worms06:53
luke-jrKDE 4's biggest problem right now IMO is the bloat and reinventing things06:53
jacekowskimy build is just uploading to fail again06:53
luke-jrif it stuck to Qt4, it'd be nice06:53
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DocScrutinizeron point #50 and 100th segfault I stopped listing what broke from 3->406:54
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DocScrutinizerand still they claim KDE4 is 'ready for prime time' -HAAH !!06:55
luke-jrKDE 4.3 is pretty stable for me06:56
luke-jrother than Konq and retarded websites06:56
luke-jrKMail has one easily reproduced crash, but it doesn't bother me enough to report it06:56
DocScrutinizerpretty stable is quite something different than KDE406:56
luke-jrmore annoying than those 2 crash situations is KWin locking my keyboard -.-06:57
luke-jrevery few days I have to Ctrl-Alt-F2 and restart kwin06:57
luke-jrto get my kb back06:57
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dmj726_n900How does on unfullscreen pidign?06:58
dmj726_n900*one * pidgin06:59
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TriztI have stable KDE4 on all the three machines I have installed, the thing that annoys me most is the lack of multi X support07:00
DocScrutinizeryeahyeah, KDE4 for sure is super stable - as long as you don't touch it07:01
TriztDocScrutinizer; don't use the 4.0, use at least 4.407:02
dssterwow you guys are still on about that07:02
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dssterit all comes down to prefrence really07:03
DocScrutinizerI'd happily use 3.5 or what it was, if only they supported it any further07:03
DocScrutinizerpreference - yeah. I prefer a system to *work* with, that doesn't segfault on random bits every second day07:04
TriztI would have used gnome, but for some reason they released a crappy sequel, so I switched to KDE3, KDE4 ain't what I really want, too much eye candy, but ctwm is a bit too much work to keep the menus up to date07:05
dssterJust remove the junk features and you will be left with a stable core nothing fancy dm07:05
Triztdsster; then you have just console left if you do that on kde4 :P07:06
dssterxcde is my 2nd fav. after gnome07:07
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TriztI don't like those gtk2 based, they seem to make things so user unfriendly using gtk207:08
* DocScrutinizer looks at the graybluish and gray knetworkmanager icon on gray background, mumbles swearwords about eyecandy and idiots using black+white pastell scheme on a color screen, and starts to ponder treating the whole laptop in microwave oven07:08
dssteri mean xfce*07:08
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TriztDocScrutinizer; ctwm maybe something for you, it's rock stable and no fancy stuff07:09
* Trizt should be sleeping at least 3h longer07:10
luke-jr fwiw07:10
DocScrutinizerfuck, I tailored and tweaked kde to my needs for some 10 years now. KDE4 nuked most of that. I don't see how switching to something still more different would reduce my bloodpressure07:11
TriztDocScrutinizer; next time, when they release KDE5, then you don't have to change anything on ctwm, you can even get my configurations from 94 which I used at university07:12
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DocScrutinizernah, I probably should use a 6 weeks kubuntu period to get used to this way of errr working?, then switch to win7 and get a good book with advice like "how to rename 150 files on a graphical desktop: make sure your mouse is lokated in a convenient position, get a large can of tea (no coffee!)..."07:17
dssterthat sucks dude07:18
TriztDocScrutinizer; you can run kde4 on that win707:18
DocScrutinizerYEAH EVEN BETTER07:18
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dmj726_n900windows 7 isn't awful to look at, but it fails to run any of my more recent code.07:20
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Triztyou souldn't compile them gainst glibc ;)07:21
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dmj726_n900or code new features for the mutter window manager07:23
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dmj726_n900(mutter's like metacity but without the suck)07:25
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jacekowskiis there any place where i can see current output of autobuilder?07:27
crashanddiejacekowski: re something you said earlier: Adopting Linux isn't necessarily a good thing. The porting effort to go from a full-blown Desktop OS to a mobile/tablet OS is severe07:29
crashanddiejacekowski: most applications needs a full rewrite because they are so unoptimised for the CPU, also, the input and interface needs to be re-thought and rebuilt from scratch07:29
jacekowskithat's just ui07:30
jacekowskilibraries can be reused07:30
crashanddiebut then again, general libraries are easy to port07:31
luke-jrcrashanddie: for me, it's a good thing, since I *want* a full blown desktop OS on my mobile :)07:31
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jacekowskii don't like that waiting07:31
crashanddieluke-jr: yeah, but you don't have a full keyboard and mouse07:31
luke-jrcrashanddie: that's Nokia's fault :(07:31
jacekowskibut as it's working for 10 minutes now07:31
jacekowskiit doesn't look like it's going to fail07:32
luke-jrmy C760 had a full-ish keyboard07:32
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nfermat Festival de Woodstock 2010 será realizado no Brasil na Fazenda Marda em Itu (100 km de São Paulo). Os dias de show serão 7, 8 e 9 de outubro.07:36
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jacekowskii just don't understand one thing07:42
jacekowskion every single page they mention07:42
jacekowskisomething similiar07:42
jacekowskiNokia N900, the tiny pocket computer can port the Debian 32-bit07:42
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microlithjacekowski: looks like it went through google translate a couple times07:44
jacekowskiyeah, but where did original debian 32 bit came from?07:45
microlithdunno, I suspect they're thinking you ported some debian package of chromium?07:45
jacekowskiwell, there isn't any official debian package for starters07:48
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jacekowskii hate waiting07:53
jacekowskithat builder should have like bazyllion core bazyllion gigahertz cpu to build these packages07:53
Triztoverclock the n900 then ;)07:56
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jacekowskiit's not building on my phone08:03
dssterspeaking of o/c how many reports of people frying so far?08:03
jacekowskiit's building on maemo builder08:03
jacekowskiand at the moment it's building for 40 minutes08:03
microlithdsster: none yet I believe, mostly people are seeing data corruption and having to reflash08:04
jacekowskiand qt was building there for 20 minutes08:04
jacekowskinobody would admit to it08:04
dssteroh excellent :)08:04
microlithwell, data corruption isn't excellent :P08:04
dssterthats why you store data on external flash :)08:06
microlithwhich doesn't save you when your root partition corrupts itself08:06
microliththe reasons for overclocking remain defeated08:06
dssterdepends, you could use root on internal memory and /home on sdhc card08:07
microlithwell, /home is already on the eMMC08:07
microliththey're seeing corruption in the UBIFS partition08:07
dssterah so it would affect external memory as well then?08:08
dssterthat sucks, but gotta keep backups then08:09
microliththe better thing is to not push the processor beyond spec :)08:09
dssterhaha thats just asking to much :)08:09
microlithoverclocking is the only thing I've seen that has been noted by the nokia guys as a warranty-killer08:09
microlithand they warned about it last september08:09
jacekowskiit kills only OC faults related warrant08:10
* DocScrutinizer really likes to kick every now end then, reeeeaaly..... uh, hold me08:12
dsstera 800mhz o/c shouldn't be too bad.. i've heard people capping 1k ghz08:12
dssternow 1k i agree is overboard08:12
* DocScrutinizer spams all OC-fanbois with 1599 registry optimizers08:14
* DocScrutinizer escalates to ramdoubler08:14
jacekowskii'm thinking about playing around with cpu frequency as well08:14
dssterIt's not that scarry to overclock. if you live in a hot and humid enviornment should stay away from any overclocking08:14
jacekowskibut in both direction08:15
* b-man passes out... 1:14am here :P08:15
dsster1,15 here08:15
jacekowskibleeter: 6:15 here08:15
LiraNunaluke-jr, in case you're wondering, there's a better way08:15
LiraNunaluke-jr, -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp08:15
DocScrutinizerWAAAAAH. dsster shut up please.08:15
LiraNuna^ best of all worlds08:15
jacekowskii'm not going to sleep before my build finishes08:15
jacekowskiwhich might be another 2h08:15
jacekowskiwell 1h now08:16
LiraNunanow how can I make those switches default :|08:16
jacekowski /etc/make.conf in gentoo08:16
LiraNunaluke-jr, GCC switches for floats08:17
* RST38h moos evilly08:17
b-manlol, Gentoo is fun :)08:17
LiraNunaluke-jr, you asked it from me, no?08:18
DocScrutinizerdsster: I heard when you place your N900 into a plastic bag, then fill that bag with water and freeze it to -41°C, and then you wear a tinfoil hat, you can even OC to 2.2GHz08:18
jacekowskisomebody has gentoo on his n90008:18
LiraNunaoh shi- it was lcuk08:18
LiraNunaluke-jr, I'm sorry; confused you both!08:18
dssterDocScrutinizer: test it out and let me know how it goes for ya ;)08:19
LiraNunalcuk, ahem - -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=neon -mfloat-abi=softfp08:19
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: does it only work on -41?08:19
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: afaik yes08:19
DocScrutinizerdsster: nah, clearly with all your knowledge about relation between overclocking and ambient humidity you are the better expert for these OC wizardies08:20
jacekowskiX-Fade: builder is too slow for me08:20
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DocScrutinizerdsster: please enlighten me - is it because the CPU can't sweat that effectively when it's more humid?08:21
dssteri'm no expert, just a common hardware enthusiast08:21
dssterhumidity makes condensation worse then it already it, that's all08:22
DocScrutinizeraaahhyaeah, condensation when it's hot08:23
DocScrutinizermakes a lot of sense08:23
* b-man is off to bed.... c ya guys :)08:24
dssteri can't recall the correct term, but you get my point08:24
DocScrutinizerbut honestly those OCers always seem to know exactly what to do08:24
DocScrutinizerI got the point - you got no clue at all08:25
dssterhumidity is bad for electronics in general, combine that with heat and overclocking is a bad idea08:25
DocScrutinizera yes. please just take it elsewhere08:25
dssterjust fuck off, if you need to do research please go ahead and don't bother me with your questions08:26
jacekowskihumidity is a problem when is cold08:26
dssternot only when it's cold08:26
jacekowskiwhich is what happens when you do extreme overclocking08:26
dssterwhen hot too08:26
jacekowskibecause you do extreme cooling at the same time08:26
dssterhumidity = corrosion in any temperature08:26
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jacekowskidsster: you've got no fucking clue what are you talking about08:27
dssterit's basic stuff08:27
dsstercommon knowledge08:27
jacekowskicopper doesn't corode08:27
DocScrutinizerI'm ready...08:28
DocScrutinizerany requests?08:28
jacekowski /kick DocScrutinizer08:28
*** DocScrutinizer was kicked by DocScrutinizer (User terminated!)08:28
jacekowski /mode +b DocScrutinizer!*@*.*08:28
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie08:29
*** crashanddie sets mode: +b DocScrutinizer!*@*08:29
crashanddieanything else?08:29
jacekowski /mode +o jacekowski08:29
*** crashanddie sets mode: +o jacekowski08:29
jacekowskinow i'm your new god08:29
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie08:30
* crashanddie bows before jacekowski 08:30
LiraNunadid anyone do OpenVG developement or have demos?08:30
LiraNunaon the N900, that is08:30
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jacekowskii don't think it's supported on n90008:31
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie08:31
LiraNunajacekowski, omap supports it08:31
*** crashanddie sets mode: -b DocScrutinizer!*@*08:31
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie08:31
jacekowskiis there a driver for it?08:31
LiraNunano clue08:32
jacekowskithat can be easily checked08:32
jacekowskibut i'm to tired08:32
LiraNuna#  Integrated POWERVR SGX™ graphics core with OpenGL ES® 2.0 and OpenVG™, support.08:32
jacekowskiLiraNuna: nothing about software side of it08:33
LiraNunajust sayin' it's capable08:33
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DocScrutinizerawesome, that's been refreshing08:33
dssterhas anyone tried rtorrent on the n900?08:33
LiraNunadsster, Transmission works REALLY good08:34
LiraNunaand it's almost fully hildonized08:34
LiraNunareally good08:34
jacekowskithat would be easy to port08:34
jacekowskibut there is one problem with rtorrent08:34
jacekowskiwhich is memory usage08:34
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jacekowskias every connection uses chunk size + a bit of memory08:34
jacekowskiand chunks are ussualy about 2M08:35
jacekowskior more08:35
dssterso Transmission does not have this issue?08:35
LiraNunaTransmission works quite well08:35
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jacekowskiit's been designed differently08:35
LiraNunaI downloaded a lot of stuff over 3G08:35
dssterok, sounds great08:35
LiraNunaquite fast as well08:35
jacekowskirtorrent can easily handle 1Gbit on slow cpu08:36
sheepbatt-mo doesn't have o problem with that, LiraNuna ?08:36
LiraNunasheepbat, they say, "Unlimited Internet"08:36
jacekowskias long as there is enough ram and disk can take that amount of I/O08:36
LiraNunawe'll see how "Unlimited" that is :)08:36
sheepbat10 GiB08:36
sheepbatit's somewhere in the contract08:36
jacekowskitransmission would kill anything with 30-40Mbit.s08:36
LiraNunasheepbat, I don't think I downloaded that much08:37
sheepbatahhh.. okay08:37
sheepbatwhich plan do you have?08:37
dssterLiraNuna: have your tried sip on tmobile?08:37
sheepbatI'm thinking about getting the PDA internet-only plan08:37
LiraNunasheepbat, "Unlimited Internet"08:37
LiraNunadsster, no, I don't have a sip account I can use08:37
sheepbatthere's more than one unlimited internet plan08:37
sheepbatthere's a very cheap one intended for use with featurephones08:37
LiraNunasheepbat, uh, the 69$/mo one08:37
jacekowskithat's a lot08:37
LiraNunaunlimited everything08:38
sheepbatdoes that come with.. ahh, okay08:38
dssterjust make a free one using gvoice + sipgate + sipsorcery free incoming + outgoing08:38
jacekowskii have unlimited internet with 600 minutes and texts08:38
LiraNunathey say unlimited08:38
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jacekowskifor £2508:38
sheepbatI don't use mine as a phone much, so I'd probably save a bunch of money just paying for when I use voice/text08:38
LiraNuna!g 25 gbp in usd08:38
jacekowski24mo contract with a phone08:38
LiraNunano googlebot in here?08:38
jacekowski 25 British pounds = 38.4275 U.S. dollars08:39
jacekowskiand that includes n90008:39
DocScrutinizergooglebot? nah08:39
LiraNunaoh wow08:39
jacekowskiand now they are doing even cheaper contracts08:39
DocScrutinizer~google googlebot08:40
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DocScrutinizernot enabled08:40
LiraNunajacekowski, subsidized?08:40
LiraNunajacekowski, I've heard UK being gimped atm on the N90008:40
LiraNunaon something08:40
DocScrutinizer~convert 25 BP to USD08:40
infobot25 BP cannot be converted to USD: Unknown unit 'BP'08:40
jacekowskicheapest tarrif is £15/mo for 24 months + £137 ( for n900 tarrif with unlimited internet )08:41
DocScrutinizer~convert 25 GBP to USD08:41
infobot25 GBP is approximately 50.3925 USD08:41
sheepbatthe bot's a little outdated, it seems08:41
jacekowskii wish it wouldn't08:42
dssteraround $3808:42
jacekowskii prefer 1gbp == 2usd exchange rate08:42
dssterhah not yet08:43
crashanddieI prefered it when we had 3 dollars to the pound08:43
crashanddie(aussie dollar)08:43
crashanddieI would've been feckin rich by now.08:43
jacekowskithere used to be times when it was close to 1gbp == 3 usd08:43
sheepbatyou do realize it's *good* for the UK to have a weak pound, right?08:44
sheepbatwell.. it can be, at least08:44
jacekowskisort of08:44
sheepbatit means people buy british08:45
jacekowskibut that means as well that it costs more to go abroad08:45
* DocScrutinizer burps08:45
sheepbatit means brits have to buy brit too08:45
jacekowskiand it means anything that has to be bought abroad is expensive08:45
jacekowskiit's good thing for country that's absolutely self sufficient08:46
jacekowskilike china08:46
sheepbatwhich is why they intentionally lower the value of their currency08:46
Triztanyone know if they will port flashplayer 10 to arm/n900?08:47
jacekowskibut i don't think that's very good thing for UK08:47
jacekowskiTrizt: maybe08:48
jacekowskithey will08:49
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jacekowskiquestion is when08:49
TriztI hope that not all sites will block old flashplayers before they are finished, adobe been quite slow IMHO08:49
DocScrutinizerI'd hope all sites will block *all* versions of flash eventually08:50
TriztDocScrutinizer; yes, but still there are too many idiot "web builders" who thinks flash is good08:51
DocScrutinizerhmm yes08:51
DocScrutinizer"this site is optimized for MS-Explorer 5.0"08:52
crashanddieI say we should remove flash from the N900 as a standard package08:52
TriztDocScrutinizer; :)08:53
jacekowskiflash is good08:53
crashanddieor rather, I have a few apps I'm developping now (waiting for pr1.2, to have pyside and qt 4.6), I'm going to make them conflict with flash08:53
jacekowskithere is nothing better to make all these fancy ads on web pages08:53
* microlith wonders why fedora doesn't set up sudo right08:53
dssterhow is flash on the n900? I've seen different videos, some are laggy and some are just great08:54
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Triztdsster; I think it's lagish08:54
Triztdsster; but what do you expect from adobe08:55
* microlith boggles at fedora08:55
MiXu-It's a bit laggy, but usable anyway08:55
jacekowskidsster: flash on linux always had performance issues08:56
Triztmicrolith; why do you use a developing/testing distro?08:56
microlithI'd rather not use RHEL08:57
jacekowskidsster: so i'm surprised by how well it's working compared to how it was working year ago on linux08:57
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Triztmicrolith; centos? or use something better like Gentoo ;)08:57
dssterjacekowski: agreed. I was suprised it worked so well from the videos i saw08:57
microlithsorry, I got over gentoo five years ago08:57
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jacekowskii'm fucking stupid08:58
microlithI'm impressed though, fedora 12 completely doesn't work right in virtualbox08:58
DocScrutinizeryeah gentoo native ftw, instead of maemo ;-P08:58
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microlithdhcp doesn't work for some reason08:58
DocScrutinizer"I'll call you once a week, dear. The remaining time my gentoo is building the weekly snapshot"08:59
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Triztmicrolith; last ok from redhat was RH7.3. At work we dropped Fedora in favour for ubuntu (personally I dislike ubuntu)09:00
microlithI use ubuntu all over09:00
dssterjacekowski: that's what you where waiting for?09:00
microlithin fact the issues I'm having now in fedora are largely why I backed away from redhat a while ago09:01
* Trizt nods09:01
dssterline 1: cd: obj-arm-linux-gnueabi: No such file or directory09:01
* microlith tries a different adaptor type09:02
jacekowskidsster: nah i was waiting for OK09:02
jacekowskidsster: but it failed because i left out something that shouldn't be there09:03
jacekowskibut chrome binary was built correctly09:03
dssterah then there is hope yet09:04
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jacekowskithe problem is that it will have to rebuild it again09:05
jacekowskiwhole 1h 40 minutes of building09:05
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Triztsounds like fun09:06
jacekowskimaybe less if it's using ccache09:08
crashanddieUK Political leader on radio: "Did you know that 54% of 14 year olds have had unprotected sex??" "Erhm, sir, it's actually 5.4%" "Oh, ok, BUT STILL! That's enormous"09:09
jacekowskiit is09:09
crashanddieNot really09:09
jacekowskii've read it incorrectly09:10
crashanddiebut I just love how he clings onto his initial argument, even though the base premise is completely false... By an order of 10 xD09:10
Triztcrashanddie; maybe the politician had unprotected sex with 54% of all the 14 years olds he bangs09:10
crashanddieTrizt: Erhm, this is the UK, not alabama09:11
* Trizt tries to picture the difference ;)09:11
dssterI like my woman fully developed09:12
* DocScrutinizer seems to discover relations between foeca and chrome - both have content hardcoded.09:12
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TriztDocScrutinizer; thats why chromium seems to be fast as they already compiled half the internet into it? ;)09:13
Triztcrashanddie; oh, they speak Spanish in alabama?09:14
crashanddieTrizt: eh?09:14
DocScrutinizerand when you click a new link, it >>the problem is that it will have to rebuild it again  <jacekowski> whole 1h 40 minutes of building09:14
jacekowskinext step will be getting rid of expat out of it09:15
Triztcrashanddie; was trying to figure out where uk and alabama differs from eachother09:15
jacekowskibut that would require new expat in maemo09:15
jacekowskibut that can be worked around09:15
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TriztHeippa konttori09:16
crashanddieTrizt: IQ, art, humour, spelling, pronounciation, film quality, tv quality, we have race car pilots who know how to turn right, as well as left, and we play real sports09:16
crashanddieTrizt: now, unless you want to get silenced, I suggest you don't reply09:17
Triztcrashanddie; and your fotball is round as a ball should be?09:17
dssterno America football is completely different09:19
DocScrutinizeryeeha, football the third sequel09:20
Triztyou mean rugby for wimps?09:20
DocScrutinizernow who's going to utter 'soccer'09:21
dssteroh is that wht you call football in the uk?09:22
Triztswamp football, the sport for men09:22
crashanddieI just love how tiger woods had to go to a "sex addicts anonymous" meeting09:24
crashanddieThough I'm not sure the best way to treat sex addicts is to put them in a room with a bunch of other sex addicts09:25
Triztis it anonymous when you have the world press running after him?09:25
Terjecrashhanddie, "anonymous". Right.09:25
DocScrutinizerkonttori: SpeedEvil_ had a great idea about internet assisted 2G<->3G handover09:25
crashanddiereally, that's akin to going to over-eaters anonymous, and finding out that all the other people are cakes09:25
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dssterI don't think that guy is a sex addict at all. Simply sometimes when we have one woman for too long you want to try another one.. it's completely normal. but these days everyone needs treatment for every little thing09:27
ds3anyone see this behavior - power off charger but leave it plugged in the N900. The battery bar animation continues even though there is no power going in and the screen stays active because it still thinkss it is charging?09:28
Triztdsster; now you need treatment against your anti treatment feelings09:28
LiraNunahmm, somehow my toolchain makes huge binaries09:28
Triztds3; think I have had something like that09:29
ds3Trizt: any work around?09:29
Triztdon't unplug the charger09:29
Stskeepsds3: i just saw the same09:29
Triztdon't unpower the charger09:30
AppiahWill being connected to a vpn (openvpn) drain your battery faster?09:30
anvith3i'm trying to compile flite for maemo N810 in sbox. i want to change the audio driver generated by ./configure to the one used on the device. the contents of config/config  file are as follows  AUDIODRIVER = alsa09:30
anvith3AUDIOLIBS   = -lasound09:30
ds3not valid; I am charging in the car from a switched 12V outlet09:30
Stskeepsds3: green light on09:30
ds3Stskeeps: I disabled the green light but have the keep screen on while charging enabled09:30
Stskeepsds3: :nod:09:30
dssterhave you guys heard of george carlin? for those that haven't youtube him :) my favorite comedian *interesting topic09:30
Triztds3; manually turn the screen off?09:30
ds3Trizt: if I remember... this is in a car, mobile use09:31
* Trizt nods, wait and see if there any change in pr1.209:31
Stskeepsds3: just had problem with normal charger as well, so09:32
ds3a seperate charge port would probally have preventing this09:32
ds3Stskeeps: I think my 12V charger is setup the same way as a wall charger09:32
Stskeepsit is a bug though09:33
DocScrutinizerds3: add a normal hub, powered from your charger to upstream port, and connect one of the downstream ports with a normal cable to N90009:33
Myrttioo. I had forgotten I've got admin rights on the wiki.09:33
Myrttioh well. One less spammer09:33
ds3Docscrutinizer: doesn't that limit charge to 500mA?09:33
DocScrutinizerimpact is much lower than you might expect, though09:34
ds3has anyone seen the phone module crash under high load? i.e. CPU pegged for a while then it acts as if there is no coverage at all09:34
ds3DocScrutinizer: in my case, it is quite noticeable as I have a proper USB connection available and that doesn't really keep up09:35
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DocScrutinizermaybe disable the 'keep on while charging' option09:36
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ds3I am running GPS + 3G + Mapper and I seem to have a net discharge09:36
ds3DocScrutinizer: I am trying to use it as a in car GPS setup so that's not an option09:36
ds3adding Media player w/OGG support to the mix is what was pegging my CPU09:37
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ds3so either Mapper has grown fatter since it was Maemo mapper or even the OMAP3 can't keep up with mapping + OGG decode at the same time09:37
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DocScrutinizerds3: if you feel like DIY, then build a custom charge cable (maybe out of a CA-101) where D+ and D- aren't permanently shorted, but rather by a relay that breaks the connection when the 12V is off09:38
konttoriTrizt: heippa09:38
konttoriDocScrutinizer: what was your idea?09:39
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ds3DocScrutinizer: maybe that but from an iGo tip+USB setup...easier to work with full size A connectors09:39
ds3nix that probally won't work since the iGo tip is where the resistor is09:41
DocScrutinizerit's been halfway SpeedEvil_ 's idea. Anyway there seems to be no standard for 2G->3G handover, as the modem probably can't poll for 3G BTS while GPRS tarffic is going on. So the idea is to fetch the list of 'neighbour' 3G BTS for a 2G cell from internet. This way the modem has a way to tell if it's a good idea to switch to 3G09:41
DocScrutinizerkonttori: ^^^09:41
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LiraNunawho is jhakala?09:46
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DocScrutinizerkonttori: if carriers have a way to check the IMEI in a internet request for 3G neighbours of a 2G cell with their location server that can confirm the IMEI is actually in the queried 2G cell, then probably they would find it's a good idea as they never open up their full network config database to any abuse and they gain better service quality with low TCO (just a few servers with a link to location server)09:51
crashanddieLiraNuna: your imaginary friend?09:51
LiraNunacrashanddie, ...09:51
LiraNunait shows he compiled GCC for scratchbox09:52
DocScrutinizerkonttori: and Nokia could be first to offer this with N90009:52
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crashanddieLiraNuna: he's the guy who compiled GCC for scratchbox?09:55
DocScrutinizerkonttori: or even simpler: as all GPRS traffic is routed via the BTS, the 'server' for the 3G neighbours could be implemented in every BTS software, under a 'local' IP09:55
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DocScrutinizerkonttori: please don't get that wrong, the whole story is based on mere assumptions about how 2G->3G handover actually works. If these assumptions are incorrect, the whole idea might be moot09:58
ds3when the N900 goes from 3G to 3.5, is that a bug?09:58
DocScrutinizerI'd call it a nice feature09:59
ds3the signal strength indicator09:59
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DocScrutinizer3.5 is only detected during real traffic09:59
ds3trying to figure out if it is really going back to EDGE (2.5) where there is a bug updating or is there really such a thing as 3.5?09:59
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DocScrutinizer3.5 is HSPA (turbo UMTS)10:00
ds3ah okay10:01
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LiraNuna<DocScrutinizer> 3.5 is only detected during real traffic10:07
LiraNunathat's why I only see it jumping from 3G to 2.510:07
LiraNunais it a technical limitation? or driver "problem" ?10:08
DocScrutinizerwhat? the '3.5 only during data traffic'?10:09
DocScrutinizerUMTS nees to establish an active connection prior to each transfer. Probably the HSPA property isn't in the standard advertisment of the cell, and is negotiated for each active connection10:12
DocScrutinizeranyway I've seen this on other phones as well10:13
DocScrutinizerso probably 'tech limitation'10:13
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LiraNunaI see10:13
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kirmait was the case on e90, and I believe I've heard the thing repeatedly on web forums about other ones too (at least nokia, .fi being so strongly nokia-oriented that there's rather limited interest for other ecosystems as more than just call devices)10:16
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DocScrutinizerkonttori: btw were you able to gather some info about how to get service info from modem, like neighbour cells etc - for onen's openbmap project10:19
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microlithfedora knows no end of pissing me off10:52
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crashanddieWas just at the corner shop, and by slightly remixing the headlines of two newspapers: "Immigrants cause global warming"11:53
* SpeedEvil_ wonders if the term cleaner miles could become widely used.11:57
LiraNunaN900 is 500MHz or 600MHz?11:58
fralsgod i hate mms11:58
fralsor rather carrier holding on to the messages for x amount of time for no god damn reason at all11:58
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danielsilvahello #maemo, do you all know if there's been any work to automatically transform normal gtk/qt UIs into mobile-friendly UIs?12:11
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lardmanwhat do you mean by automatic?12:11
danielsilvai mean by making changes to the UI toolkit12:11
danielsilvasay, modifying gtk and qt on maemo12:12
lardmanAnyonw know if I should apt-get upgrade the SDK to pr 1.2 and still be able to build stuff for the pr 1.1.1 image we have12:12
lardmandanielsilva: ah I see12:12
lardmandanielsilva: there are some changes if a hildon window is used rather than a gtk window12:13
danielsilvalardman: what sort of changes?12:13
lardmanwindow looks different12:13
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lardmananyone else have any better thoughts than mine?12:14
lardmanas I've not touched GTK+ since last year12:14
danielsilvalardman: I was thinking something like this :)
danielsilvathat's an LD_PRELOAD shim for gtk, hiding unnecessary parts of the UI12:15
danielsilvatop right shows a normal gtk app12:15
danielsilvaon the left (and scaled down on the bottom right) is the same app, but with a modified gtk that hides toolbars, menubars, statusbars, and some group frames12:16
danielsilvaand scrollbars12:16
danielsilvai slapped that code together today but not sure where to send these ideas12:17
lardmanWell that's not what you get with gtk+ here, though there may be some patched components12:17
lardmanis it gtk?12:17
lardmanwhich is being deprecated...12:17
danielsilvait's a shared library that intercepts gtk calls12:17
lardman(for use in Maemo anyway)12:18
danielsilvacould do the same for qt or clutter12:18
lardmanWell it's certainly of interest, and GTK will move to being a community maintained toolkit for use in maemo, so send it to the maemo-developers list12:18
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Ken-Younglardman, Will hildon widgets be community maintained, too?   Qt will be the only official toolkit?12:34
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crashanddielardman: you should reply to the maemo-community thread regarding documentation12:35
crashanddielardman: highlight spam! Your screen is all red now!12:36
crashanddielardman: happy sunday!12:36
lardmanhey crashanddie12:37
lardmanKen-Young: I think that is supposed to be the case, yes12:38
lardmancrashanddie: stuff from maemo-community gets moved by my work computer, and Kontact doesn't seem to be able to see deleted but non-purged messages on the IMAP server12:39
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crashanddieis that just a complicated way of saying: "Will do tomorrow"?12:45
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* ShadowJK wonders if imap even has a "deleted and non-purged" state12:47
lardmansomething like that, plus a quick curse of Kontact12:47
lardmanShadowJK: hmm, I wonder if that's deleted and non-purged from Outlook's internal db then12:48
lardmanhad never really thought about it, though actually I can still see the emails in deleted and non-purged form from webmail, so they must still be on the imap server12:48
* lardman checks webmail to see what crashanddie is on about12:49
lardmannot enough coffee :p12:49
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lardmancrashanddie: The thread from dneary? I don't see any relevance...?12:51
crashanddielardman: no, Andrew's thread "Sprint, your action required"12:51
lardmanah, I try to avoid sprints12:53
lardmanand I'm pretty short on time atm anyway12:53
crashanddiemate, your priorities aren't set right I'm afraid12:56
crashanddiewe need to see a bit more commitment from you12:56
crashanddielardman: actually, it has nothing to do with the sprint13:06
crashanddielardman: rather has become a discussion about the organisation of documentation13:06
lardmanOh right13:07
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lardmanwell I'm sure I don't really need to stick my oar in too13:07
lardmanbut I'll have a look at the thread later on, once ff has updated itself13:07
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lardmanhmm, am not fond of the gmane interface to the ml archives13:11
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lardmananyone know how I can just look at a list of the email subjects rather than single days and the whole message?13:13
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lardmanah, I was looking for a build log actually, but thanks13:16
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lardmanso, apparently libtool now needs a dep?13:18
lardmanor rather needs to be added as a dep13:18
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lardmanbbl, work to do13:22
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crashanddieHaha, if your wife catches you wanking to a slurry movie, and she threathens a divorce... Is that "The Porn Ultimatum"?13:34
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frals~curse tmo for being down13:53
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infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, tmo for being down !13:53
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Termanatmo is always down13:55
TermanaThey must of misread when they bought the server. It must of said "99% downtime" rather than "99% uptime"13:55
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lardmanprobably too many people13:56
Termanaprobably wishful thinking13:56
Termanalol j/k :P13:56
crashanddieTermana: MUST HAVE13:59
Termanacrashanddie: misread? :P13:59
crashanddieno, misspelt. It's "Must have said", not "must of said"13:59
crashanddieyou tool.13:59
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TermanaAh, i see. Thanks for the tip fag.14:00
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Anti[N900]hi there14:24
Anti[N900]is it any way to update to new firmware without reflashing?14:25
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TriztAnti[N900]; from the nokia repo14:26
Anti[N900]which of?14:28
Anti[N900]i've 2 default nokia repos, and it's no new update?14:29
infobotAnti[N900] meant: i've 2 default nokia repos, and it's no new update14:29
Triztit's per default in your add/remove catalogues, you should get a notification about the update as soon as the new version has been released and you are online with the phone14:29
TriztI guess you are waiting for pr1.2, and it's not released yet14:30
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Anti[N900]uhm... and what about situation, that some software in maemo devel//testing repo requre new versions of system components14:31
lardmanthat is an ongoing problem14:32
Anti[N900]and qt too :)14:32
TriztAnti[N900]; it will tell you that you can't install it14:32
lardmanthough if the packages are built with specific version deps, they should mostly run on pr1.1.1 afaiu14:32
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lardmanbut many aren't14:32
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Triztbut shouldn't take too many years until pr1.2 is released and those last dependencies are solved14:34
lardmanfingers crossed ;)14:34
lardmanbut yeah, should be out soon we all assume14:36
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Triztlardman; you forking up?14:40
lardman|homenah, crappy TalkTalk connection14:40
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* Trizt nods14:41
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lardmanFF is playing up too, but I've read that may be down to FF itself14:42
lardmantiming out, etc., almost like a DNS problem somewhere14:43
Trizthmmm... checked that the dog haven't chewed your tp-cable?14:44
lardmanno pets :)14:44
Triztoh, those may chew on cables from time to time ;)14:44
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Anti[N900]btw, sometimes i think about question, why default N900 partitions table is so terrible? :)14:55
TriztAnti[N900]; for someone was bored at work ;)14:56
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pupnikif you dont know why, don't assume "terrible"15:02
SpeedEvilAnti[N900]: simply an accumulation of design descisios that seemed reasonable at the time.15:03
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Trizt:) your car?15:04
Anti[N900]and why many software is not optified and installing in "nofreespace" root partition? :)15:05
lardmancrashanddie: yeah I saw that on the news15:05
crashanddieit's amazing no one was hurt15:06
lardmantho was it April the 1st...?15:06
crashanddielardman: would surprise me, it was documented on good news week on march 25th15:06
lardmanok, just wondering15:06
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Triztjacekowski; does it work?15:09
Triztwhat's not working as supposed?15:10
jacekowskiinput/ no kinteic scrolling/15:10
jacekowskino zoom15:10
jacekowskiwell, no zoom with volume keys15:11
jacekowskii hope to fix most of that today15:11
Triztokey, that's not too bad, my volume buttons don't work in all apps anyway15:11
jacekowskiit will hopefully appear in repo in couple minutes15:12
Triztokey, I'll maybe test it, this far I have been kind of disappointed with the alternative browsers15:12
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jacekowskionly thing i can say15:14
jacekowskithat it's really fast15:14
jacekowskiesspecialy javascript performanc15:14
Triztthats something positive then15:14
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lardmanwell done then15:15
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lardmanso what's the take with this overclocking?15:23
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Trizthow unsafe is it?15:26
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Triztyou need a 2000mm 10000rpm fan to do it safe?15:26
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* Trizt neads tea15:27
pupniki was told not to, so i wont15:27
lardman|home~lart TalkTalk15:27
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jacekowskiTrizt: very unsafe15:28
jacekowskiTrizt: it drasticaly reduces lifespan of cpu15:28
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jacekowskiTrizt: and it's like from 500 years at 400MHz to 200h on 700MHz15:28
naxuis there already documented cases where device has bricked from overclocking?15:29
jacekowskiit won't fail straight away15:29
jacekowskijust couple days/weeks later15:30
jacekowskiand then people will start - lol omg wtf my n900 is broken15:30
naxui guess overclocking instructions have been around for about week now15:30
jacekowskiinstead of - i've broken my device by OC15:30
naxuso first should be visible soon15:30
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naxuif it really is so harmfull for cpu / other parts15:31
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: another OC fan15:31
Triztsadly you can't just change the cpu to one of those newer dualcores15:32
Triztbut I would have been a little bit happier if the n900 was a lite bit faster on switching to a higher frequency when on load15:32
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pupnikcertain websites will always be slow - it is part of their business model to be slow15:33
jacekowskirepository is broken15:34
jacekowskii've checked and no single package has been added today15:34
RST38hno point15:34
RST38hautobuilder builds packages with unsatisfiable dependencies15:34
Triztpupnik; yes, and some make software slower so that you have to buy more powerful hardware15:34
RST38hBut you can whine on bug ##975215:35
povbotBug Autobuilder links against uninstallable libraries15:35
pupnikTrizt: i was thinking of fadt loading ads and slow loading content15:35
Triztpupnik; okey, I almost never notice those differences as privoxy filters the adds away for me15:36
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FIQhave you heard about applications fail in fullscreen mode like this before: when program is active, a new "unknown" window is created and force switched to, and the program window dies. The new window shutdown itself when going to task switcher15:38
TriztI still remember the old good time, no ads and no frames on the web pages15:38
wolf^I still can't understand people not using the old good adblock15:39
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SpeedEvilpages are supported by ads.15:40
Triztwolf^; all browsers don't support it, so better have privoxy, works for all browsers as far as I know15:40
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RST38hWe've been there before, and intermediate layers between the platform and the developer ultimately produces sub-standard apps and hinders the progress of the platform.' (c) Steve Jobs15:41
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pupniki dont want apps to become totally webcentric either.  give me offline capability to get things done15:43
Triztpupnik; but thats the way to pay for the license in the future15:44
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naxusometimes network just doesnt work15:45
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crashanddie"Here it comes, here it comes"
crashanddiewoops, wrong link15:50
crashanddieright link:
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FIQlibsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev have unmet deps, libc6-dev and libsdl1.2-dev (version 1.2.4 or more), where can i find those?15:58
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pupniknobody interested in patching up bundyo's gemrb package eh16:04
pupnikits hardly a candidate for autobuilder atm16:04
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RST38hpupnik: Well, I am not releasing anything to autobuilder until 1) they fix it to produce installable packages or 2) PR1.2 is released16:13
RST38hpupnik: No ETA on either, so app development stalled16:13
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pupniki actually played some nethack.  falcons eye is that good16:14
pupnikwondering if ui can be made still easier for noobs16:14
RST38hprolly not16:15
RST38hthey will be better off playing a simpler game16:15
pupnikwhich reminds me, qauozl's pygame netrek can run on n900, but needs ui work16:15
lardmanRST38h: do you know if libtool now has to be added as a dep for packages to build?16:16
RST38hlardman: No idea, but I do not think it will make any difference16:16
lardmanjust that a new build I sent in doesn't want to build, was wondering if this is an effect of the SDK upgrade16:17
pupnikget on the phone with X-Fade or whomever16:17
lardmanversion upgrade, same debianisation files, etc but with version bum[16:17
lardmanyeah, am also not so bothered until we see PR 1.2 tbh16:17
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RST38hpupnik: some not yet ported rpgs there16:19
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wazd_e63Heya maemo :)17:06
wazd_e63Long time no see :)17:06
RST38hmoooo wazd17:07
RST38hhow are things?17:07
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wazd_e63Rst38h: heya17:09
wazd_e63Rst38h: fixed ti84+ screen, but forgot to send it to you :(17:10
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wazd_e63Rst38h: still don't see the solution for buttons17:11
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FIQlibsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev have unmet deps, libc6-dev and libsdl1.2-dev (version 1.2.4 or more), where can i find those?17:12
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RST38hwazd: Maybe stylize buttons so that they look approximately but not exactly like the real thing?17:19
RST38hwazd: autobuilder is broken, so I cannot release this stuff anyway, any time soon17:19
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RST38hwazd: in brighter news, seems that there is Chromium for Maemo5 and it is said to be pretty speedy17:21
* FIQ has it17:22
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FIQand it works fine17:22
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wazd_e63Rst38h: well, maybe, but it look so cool now :(17:23
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wazd_e63Rst38h: my sister is tearing herself appart, cause now she realized how much could she save buying a laptop thru  you in us :)17:24
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wazd_e63Rst38h: some vaios has almost $+1k pricetags in here17:26
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lcukhey ho \o17:27
lcukyou been busy beaver wazd_e63 ?17:27
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FIQhm, anyone?17:27
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wazd_e63Lcuk: hey there17:33
wazd_e63Lcuk: yeah, lots of stuff to do17:33
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wazd_e63Lcuk: since I'm a one man army :)17:34
RST38hwazd: Should have just bought an ASUS17:34
RST38hwazd: Or, eeek, Samsung17:34
javispedromoo, gentleman17:34
RST38hmoo indeed, javispedro17:34
wazd_e63Rst38h: samsung? Wut? :D17:34
wazd_e63Javispedro: heyaa17:35
* RST38h cackles evilly, while copying latest Dr Who, Stargate, and Fringe to his N90017:35
wazd_e63Rst38h: Aw, just saw premiere episodes of sgu17:35
RST38hwazd: Get the Doctor17:36
wazd_e63Or sonething like that17:36
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RST38hwazd: SGU is nice (I mean nicer than previous SG series) but too bland17:36
Triztwazd_e63; seen all the episodes this far and still feels like nothing has happen in sgu17:36
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RST38hTrizt: Nothing will, it is just the new StarTrek17:37
wazd_e63Rst38h: don't have much time for this stuff, just had a terrible hangover yesterday, so could't work at all :)17:37
javispedrowhat could happen with such a premise?17:37
RST38hwazd: eh!17:37
Trizteven startrek had more action17:37
RST38hTrizt: It is all about psychological suspense!17:37
* Trizt must have missed that17:38
RST38hTrizt: US military culture vs US corporate culture vs US government culture17:38
RST38hTrizt: With poor grunts caught in between =)17:38
wazd_e63Trizt: I guess it's not much about action, but some senseless shiny stuff :)17:38
wazd_e63Also ckecked out 1st episode of V17:38
* RST38h is eagerly awaiting some kind of political correctness crisis on SGU17:39
wazd_e63mix of characters from lost and this series bout two plastic surgerers :)17:39
RST38hwazd: Not the same as the ancient series about rodent-eating aliens?17:39
wazd_e63Rst38h: dunno :)17:39
wazd_e63Rst38h: nobody was eaten yet :)17:40
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Triztwazd_e63, RST38h; it has similarities with the original series17:40
RST38hwazd: The original V was kinda nice, like US eagerly copying Russian WWII movie with aliens instead of germans =)17:40
wazd_e63Rst38h: well, at least they are crocodiles, covered with human skin17:40
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RST38hwazd: Yea, that is the thing, right from the original V17:41
wazd_e63Rst38h: since V has only 9 episodes, I guess they failed :)17:42
RST38hwazd: Another cute piece of trivia about V: "The script was presented to NBC, for production as a television mini-series, but the NBC executives rejected the initial version, claiming it was too "cerebral" for the average American viewer. To make the script more marketable, the American fascists were re-cast as man-eating extraterrestrials, taking the story into the realm of science fiction."17:42
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wazd_e63Hehe :)17:43
* Trizt will watch some crappy episodes of ST:Voyager17:44
wazd_e63Trizt: somach problems? :D17:45
TriztNo, not yet :P17:45
RST38hThen why do you want to throw up?17:45
TriztSee how long I can hold it down17:46
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wazd_e63Trizt: oh, that's an old drunk party game :D17:46
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Triztdidn't knwo, just had those drink when someone does something wrong in starwars17:47
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Triztit's quite horrible, but ST:V seems to be todays best program on telly17:48
wazd_e63Rst38h: and bout laptop: she needs it for status showcasing too, so no cheap look :)17:49
wazd_e63Trizt: do they work with mother russia too? :)17:50
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Triztjust special order and you can cover whole russia17:50
wazd_e63Trizt: and what do they do anyway, I'm on the phone with 5k bucks per meg17:50
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Triztthey have "stickers" for different devices, so you can have designed look17:51
wazd_e63Trizt: aw, pfff :)17:51
Triztor some hilarious family photo17:51
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wazd_e63Trizt: NO cheap look :D17:52
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wazd_e63Trizt: I thought they can make some custom leather or metal casing :)17:52
RST38hwazd: ASUS builds some laptops that look nicely, in spite of being made of shit and vapors17:53
wazd_e63Rst38h: she's found HP elitebook 2530p17:53
RST38hwazd: See bamboo series17:53
Triztwazd_e63; sure, they can use some pattern to make it almost look like that17:53
* RST38h isn't sure what that HP is. They all look like bricks covered in blue lights to him17:53
* javispedro likes older thinkpads17:54
TriztHP is the utter crap, I will sell mine if someone dares to want to buy it17:54
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RST38hTrizt <-- obviously never used Lenovo ;)17:56
TriztEven the Chinese think HP is crap, not just thinking of that video where a customer jumped on his laptop as HP refused to repair it, but that Chinese government has closed down factories where they produced HP laptops, as the factories did make so low quality product that the government thought it was hurting the Chinese reputation.17:56
* RST38h looks over the list of proposed GSoC apps, sadly17:57
RST38hSo much trying to win Google's attention there...17:57
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RST38hSo many copycats, too17:57
TriztNo, I haven't. I'm thinking about a Nokia one, but only if it runs ARM or some other none 8080 based CPU17:58
wazd_e63Trizt: still it's the only laptop that fits her requirements: light, 13", durable, expensive looking :)17:58
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RST38hEvery third applicant proposes to develop an eBook reader.17:58
RST38hEvery second applicant wants to develop "something for the cloud"17:59
wazd_e63Rst38h: meh17:59
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wazd_e63Rst38h: so there is a guy that develops eBook reader for the cloud?)17:59
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Triztwazd_e63; that must be the most important application this millenium18:00
wazd_e63trizt: sure it is18:01
wazd_e63Cloudreader 300018:01
TriztI think I'll buy at least 10018:01
RST38hwazd: Prolly18:02
RST38hwazd: It makes perfect sense, the book is in the cloud, the user has no access to it, he can just read it, on the cloud...18:02
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Trizton the other hand an unreader application had been good, so you could reread a book as if you read it for the first time18:03
lcukTrizt, as you get older you find you can read books you once knew18:03
lcukunreader is natural - it has a name also: senility18:04
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lcukim sure ive heard about some sort of cloud based document viewer18:05
RST38hLots of Meego in the Maemo GSoC too18:05
lcukbut its name eludes me18:05
* RST38h considers marking down all Meego proposals out of sheer spite =)18:05
RST38hAh, let us not be evil (C)Google18:05
Triztlcuk; can you remind me which ones to read in a couple of years?18:06
lcukTrizt, birth certificate is always a good read18:06
lcukthe characters in it are somehow important18:07
Triztnah, then you get just so damn depressed when you know how old you are18:07
lcukbut i cant remember why18:07
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pupnikwhat about meego on some of these android phobnez18:07
* pupnik strikes questioning rapper pose18:07
RST38hpupnik: We do not even have a usable Meego on N900s...18:07
xorAxAxso which CPU will have the first meego device?18:07
* lcuk does some sort of rapper hand gesture - fo' sur pupnik18:07
lcuklol RST38h18:08
pupnikwell izm sayzin the mode de emploi on them should be considured18:08
crashanddiemode d'emploi18:08
crashanddielcuk: you fraud!18:09
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Triztpupnik; it could be an improvement with a xterm for a phone used to run android18:09
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crashanddieFrom: Gary18:09
crashanddie"We are China based company explicitly active for iPhone software programming solutions and Mobile Application Development services as well as wireless application (WAP) development."18:10
crashanddieI KNEW IT!18:10
RST38hNow it is iPhone solutions?18:10
RST38hIt has been web design, then PHP18:10
pupniksure why not run android from meego kernel18:10
pupnikor am i being wrong18:10
crashanddieanyway, have a good one all18:10
pupnikcu crashanddie18:10
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gopalakram a noob in n900 development, anyone can tell hws best to begin ?18:13
RST38h1. Install Ubuntu Linux18:13
RST38h2. Get Maemo SDK and install it onto Ubuntu Linux18:13
RST38h3. Follow tutorials from maemo.org18:13
Treibholzuse 32bit18:13
RST38h4. Do get a real device, as debugging under SDK is kinda useless18:14
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crashanddieor download the VM that contains the dev env pre-installed.18:14
gopalakryep using karmic ubuntu 9.1, using virtualbox for 32 bit , do have a device...18:14
RST38hyou do not need virtual box18:14
gopalakrwhich tutorial ? any url... too much there18:14
RST38hall you need is ubuntu18:14
gopalakrreally ? i had trouble with scratchbox on 6418:15
crashanddieI love it when people on tmo say "I don't understand, I have offered a solution on brainstorm, but people (amongst which respectable community members) have downvoted my proposal... I don't understand"18:15
* javispedro always though brainstorm-like applicacions are not very useful18:16
javispedrosee the ubuntu one18:16
pupnikideas are cheap18:16
RST38hjavispedro: But they let the people responsible claim that they have done their job, without implementing any proposed changes18:17
RST38hideas are like assholes, everybody has one18:17
gopalakrcool ok..18:17
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RST38hgopalakr: Do not use 64bit OS18:17
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RST38h(not sure why you would be using it anyway)18:18
javispedroah, using a 64bit OS is just fine, but then you will spend more time developing scratchbox instead of maemo apps :)18:18
Treibholz64bit is OK, just a tick harder to setup the SDK18:18
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gopalakri mean 64bit is not trivial atleast for the lay to semi literate developers18:19
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* lupine_85 uses 64-bit + scratchbox18:20
lupine_85took no time at all to set up18:20
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* RST38h uses scratchbox218:21
gopalakrId love to see a one-stop ducumentation for support on 64 bit,,18:23
gopalakrthe hacks i meant18:23
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javispedroif you reaaaaaaaaaaly want 64 bit just do it and come here to complain when it does not work (it's what everyone does after all :P )18:23
javispedrothen hope someone recognizes the problem and posts the solution18:24
* javispedro shudders. nokia is still suggesting to disable vdso.18:25
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javispedrovirtual dynamic shared object18:27
Stskeepsjavispedro: that is more of a qemu problem though18:27
javispedroStskeeps: it's a glibc problem for all I know18:27
* RST38h has no idea what vdso is18:28
RST38hbut the whole scheme of running half the sdk executables in qemu sounds like a potential clusterfuck18:28
javispedrowhat linux uses to enable support for sysenter18:28
FIQhm, anyone that can solve my dep problem?18:29
Stskeepsjavispedro: in newer kernels you do not ned to disable vdso18:29
anvith3i was trying to install Firefox 1.0.0 on a N810 and the operation failed because there wasn't enough memory on the  device. Now the device has entered a reboot loop and gets as far as the home screen and stops responding an then reboots. i have advaced power mgmt installed and it shows a red empty battery icon and before connecting to the apmd daemon it reboots18:29
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anvith3what  do i do?18:29
javispedroStskeeps: I think I pointed that on a bug report; the issue is that the glibc-2.3.2 sbox ships doesn't work with _randomized_ vdso. Nokia's suggestion is to disable vdso entirely support.18:30
javispedroStskeeps: but it works with the older fixed, "compat" vdso.18:30
javispedro(this patch to sbox's glibc fixes it...)18:31
javispedrounfortunately it takes more than 24 hours to build in the debian-sarge vm.18:31
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jacekowskiwhy builder is broken18:44
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javispedro2,285 posts in o/c thread :(18:52
jacekowskii think you meant, break my phone thread18:53
TermanaxorAxAx: overclock18:55
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DocScrutinizerprobably spinning in circles after every 89 posts18:57
RST38hjavispedro: The Tentacled One is feeling triumphant today!18:58
DocScrutinizerwell, in the end it's healthy darwinism18:59
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Jaffajavispedro: Can I put you as point man on for "PR1.2 autobuilder"?19:03
javispedroJaffa: I think so19:03
Jaffajavispedro: Cool, we could probably do with an update to the wiki page or thread about the experiments you & X-Fade have been doin19:03
javispedrook, will expand on that19:04
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Jaffajavispedro: Done :-)19:05
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jacekowskii'm giving up on free19:07
javispedroso, from now on gentlemen, redirect all libhildon1 dependency complains to me :)19:07
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jacekowskiif my package doesn't appear there before .deb finishes building i'm sending binary to non-free19:07
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Shapeshifterhuh. it says here that placing a call locks the cpu at 600mhz until the other side picks up19:08
Shapeshifterthis seems very daft19:08
Shapeshifterand possibly dangerous19:08
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jacekowskiwhere does it say so?19:08
Jaffajavispedro: Probably want to add yourself as CC on  i you haven't already :-(19:08
povbotBug 9752f: could not be retrieved: InvalidBugId19:08
javispedrobug 975219:09
povbotBug Autobuilder links against uninstallable libraries19:09
javispedroyeah, read it this morning19:09
Shapeshifterjacekowski: well okay that's not the best source I know19:09
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PhonicUKhey all19:11
jacekowskiShapeshifter: "Maybe we should file a bug report (if someone can confirm my observation with a stock kernel)?"19:11
jacekowskiShapeshifter: nobody confirmed it on stock kernel so far19:11
PhonicUKi am the southern most IRC user in mainland england!19:12
DocScrutinizerheh, why not OC to 1GHz on placing a call? Maybe other end picks up faster then :-P19:13
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t-tan600Mhz lock has been confirmed for stock kernel
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t-tanIf haven't been following the OC thread - it has become the undervoltage thread19:16
javispedrohow much time does your telco allow to ring without answering?19:16
javispedro*the other end answering, of course.19:17
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t-tanwe're now running 500Mhz with the voltage uses for Idle. so we set min. freq to 50019:17
Shapeshifterthat sounds clever19:17
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jacekowskibesides, 600MHz is safe19:17
ShapeshifterI see that undervolting works quite well. no instabilities?19:18
t-tanjavispedro: haven't tried ringing for more than 1h :)19:18
jacekowskiphone is running at that frequency when you are playing games or something19:18
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: there's no hard standard19:18
javispedroyeah, my telco cuts at 2-3 minutes19:18
t-tanShapeshifter: yes, flawless so far19:18
jacekowskit-tan: does it improve battery life?19:18
t-tanjacekowski: we're running tests. give us some days...19:18
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t-tanand we can run 850 with the same voltage uses for 500Mhz. could be safe OC19:20
jacekowskiit still increases current19:21
* DocScrutinizer sets up autokickban on regex '.* safe .* OC .*' and '.* OC .* safe .*'19:22
t-tanjacekowski: yep, but if it's less than 600MHz with stock it should be fine19:22
jacekowskit-tan: no19:22
jacekowskit-tan: there is lot more things to it than just current19:22
jacekowskit-tan: higher frequency causes current to flow differently as well19:22
t-tanI know electromigration...19:22
t-tanbut nobody knows how much it really affects lifetime.19:23
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t-tanmaybe in 2 years we know...:)19:23
DocScrutinizerwell, TI knows for sure19:23
jacekowskido a HALT test and tell us19:23
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DocScrutinizerthey had enough chips to burn, and they definitely have the knowhow19:24
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t-tanevery chip is different. bad chips won't run stable with undervoltage...19:25
DocScrutinizerso what?19:25
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DocScrutinizerthat's what selection in fab is for19:25
t-tanit's only for the minimum requirements. some N900 owners are more lucky than others...19:26
javispedroexactly -- they're not idiots one has to assume. if more than, say, 25% of the chips worked fine at a lower voltage they would market them so for sure.19:26
Shapeshiftert-tan: does the increased idle clock increase smoothness significantly? isn't it just a placebo effect?19:26
javispedroexactly to Doc :)19:27
DocScrutinizerof coure sometime chip manufs 'label down' higher rated chips, if they are in a pinch and some big customer places big order19:27
jacekowskiShapeshifter: changes in clock causes cache flush19:27
jacekowskiShapeshifter: so it is possible19:28
t-tanShapeshifter: honestly, I can't tell. maybe if I had to N900 to compare simultaenously19:28
DocScrutinizerbut I'd believe in that only if a test on a 1000-base of samples was done in a scientific manner19:28
Shapeshiftermhh. I'm looking forward to some tests.19:28
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t-tanDocScrutinizer: just send me a 1000 sample :)19:29
noobmonk3yanyone used the listWidget.editItem() command in pyqt before? having a few issues with it, and not sure if i need to pass anything?19:29
noobmonk3yself.listWidget.editItem(string) or do i need self.listWidget.editItem(selectedrow,string) ?19:29
DocScrutinizert-tan: hahaha, it's not *my* hobby to OC-fry the device19:29
DocScrutinizert-tan: you know, I have other means to kill my N900 :-P19:30
noobmonk3yw00t_, :D - any ideas on a listwidget.editItem? :D19:30
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lcuknoobmonk3y, try both19:30
noobmonk3ythe page just says (QListWidgetItem item)19:30
noobmonk3ylol lcuk  have tried but confuzzled19:31
t-tanbut this is the only way to turn it into a cigarette lighter19:31
lcukso you pass it a ref to the item you want to become editable?19:31
noobmonk3ydoesnt make sense to just pass an item and not a string to change it too?19:31
lcukno - that call would appear to me to be the one to start interactive editing on an item19:31
lcukto change the text of an item programmatically, isnt there a settext or similar property on the listitem itself?19:32
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noobmonk3yhmmmm will try that :D19:32
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noobmonk3yyay works!19:39
* noobmonk3y thanks lcuk 19:39
noobmonk3yagain....... ;)19:39
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noobmonk3ygot it so if i click some of the items in healthcheck they auto-update :D19:40
noobmonk3ythings like accelerometer etc :D19:40
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fralsnoobmonk3y: whenever you need to know what you can do with an object just do print dir(instanceofobject)19:44
noobmonk3yahhhhh thatks frals :D19:44
noobmonk3yvery usel to know :D19:44
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noobmonk3yi find the trolltech riverside websites ok, but can be very confusing seeing it done in C, and not in pyqt19:45
Arkenoilooks like unlucky me got a device that does not work properly when both smartreflex and sleep_mode are enabled :-/19:45
Arkenoiprevious one was ok19:45
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Shapeshifterwell that's odd. after a reboot, free space on rootfs dropped from 25 to 15...19:48
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: hmm, actually that's odd19:50
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noobmonk3ymy rootfs does do random things too19:58
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noobmonk3ynot much on at the moment and it's up to 41mb free, no repos enabled :|19:59
noobmonk3ytime for a reflash :D19:59
DocScrutinizernoobmonk3y: damn, that's not windows!19:59
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noobmonk3yhehe :P19:59
noobmonk3yprobably healthcheck eating my device apart ;)20:00
DocScrutinizerrm -rf /tmp/*20:00
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noobmonk3ylol :P20:03
noobmonk3yright off for din's :D20:03
* noobmonk3y is away20:04
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PhonicUKhey all :D20:09
PhonicUKI am the southern most Maemo user in the whole of Mainland England! D:20:09
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noobmonk3ylol PhonicUK20:11
noobmonk3ysouth cornwall?20:12
noobmonk3ykathy is redruth way i think20:12
PhonicUKtake a look:20:12
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PhonicUKI posted that from near Lizard Point20:12
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PhonicUKthe absolute bottom of the country20:12
noobmonk3ycool, not been there in years :D20:12
PhonicUKi got a signal at the top of The Lizard Lighthouse20:12
noobmonk3yright back to heading out lol20:12
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lcukPhonicUK, have you checked on the map20:24
PhonicUKwhat do you mean20:25
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lcukor rather, added it there20:26
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PhonicUKwell im only on holiday so im not sure it counts20:26
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lcuksure it does!20:26
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PhonicUKhow do i add a point?20:27
PhonicUKah nm20:27
PhonicUKWhats the "master pin password" ?20:29
PhonicUKdone :D20:30
PhonicUKits on the map20:30
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lcukheh PhonicUK20:32
PhonicUKupvote my reddit post :D20:32
lcuknot got an account20:32
korhojoahmm. i have a question: will just undervolting the n900 void it's warranty?20:32
Arkenoiif my phone gives spontaneous 32_wd reboots if both enable_off_mode and smartreflex are set, which one to choose to get better battery life?20:33
RST38hdisable smartreflex20:33
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DocScrutinizerkorhojoa: no, it won't20:42
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jacekowskiwhy maemo repositories are broken?20:44
jacekowskiall of them20:44
jacekowskii've sent package 8h ago to free and nothing so far20:45
jacekowskiand same to non-free while ago20:45
jacekowskiand nothing happened as well20:45
* RST38h is getting cryptic emails in arabic20:45
DocScrutinizerusual weekend DDoS?20:45
pupniki vote that community council members must decide on supreme ruler with a hotdog or hamburger eating contest20:46
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RST38hpupnik: I would actually prefer a baloon fight20:47
RST38hit is more spectacular.20:47
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: or the 770s need ointment and for that the whole repo is down until the oilcan is empty X-P20:47
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jacekowskisince 9th of april there was nothing added/updated20:49
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DocScrutinizermaybe somebody finally is fixing the 1.2-madness20:49
DocScrutinizerthough I wouldn't hold my breath for that20:50
pupnikwebcam if you do20:51
RST38hDoubt it20:51
RST38hIt does look like nobody cares20:52
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pupniki care a little bit about many things and a lot about a few20:55
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marcus_Hmm, is it normal that my brightness change randomly?21:05
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marcus_Sometimes when messing around on it, it suddenly goes darker, and sometimes brighter21:06
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GAN900marcus_, it has an ambient light sensor.21:06
marcus_GAN900: Aha! (: Thankie21:06
Jaffajacekowski: Raised a bug, or asked X-Fade?21:06
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jacekowskiX-Fade: why are repositories broken?21:07
lcukjacekowski, some people rest at weekend21:07
lcukand their irc clients die before they get back to them21:07
lcukwrite an official bug report please21:07
lcuksomething that wont get lost21:07
jacekowskii'll make sure that won't get lost21:07
marcus_Anyone tried the OpenArena port for n900? Saw it in the app list today.21:08
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MohammadAGmarcus_, no but I tried Quake 3 (same engine)21:11
marcus_MohammadAG: Dunno though if OpenArena has been just-as-much optimized, as it's recently been added to the repositories.21:11
MohammadAGnot really21:12
MohammadAGit's been there for about 4 months21:12
MohammadAGI think..21:12
marcus_I oughta read all the apps one-by-one.21:12
MohammadAGmarcus_, 2009-10-17 14:22 UTC21:13
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marcus_How is it though to be playing it? Hard with accelerometer movement?21:13
MohammadAGVery lol, got pwned by my mate who was using a kb and a mouse on his PC21:13
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marcus_Haha! Ofc :P21:13
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marcus_Could be epic though to go to a LAN party with your friends, while they are coming with their PCs+KB+Mouse and then you just drag out your N900 ;)21:14
lcukwe do that anyway21:14
marcus_BTW, is it using OpenGL ES?21:15
pupnikif you could compete using a n900, that would be epic21:15
marcus_Indeed (:21:15
_llll_sounds like a good way to ruin eyesight21:15
lcuk_llll_, plug n900 into projector and run apps on cinema size projector :)21:16
lcukvideo out FTW :D21:16
MohammadAG_llll_, it's ruined here anyways :P21:16
_llll_i tried that with my tv, but it's a bit odd trying to move the mouse21:16
pupniknow i know why US folks prefer a portrait mode phone.21:17
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_llll_err, well not mouse but scrolling etc21:17
pupnikthey need one hand for wanking.21:17
marcus_pupnik: Rofl21:17
* Shapeshifter is pleased with his trivial mpd controlling widgets
lcukShapeshifter, :)21:17
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rangeetter readability than cutempc ... :)21:18
pupnikShapeshifter: can you do a "add current track to some list" or "delete current track"?21:19
Shapeshifterpupnik: would sure be possible. it's just the desktop command execution widget with some mpc | sed stuff21:19
pupnikis there a "delete" or "add current track to some list" in the protocol?21:20
Shapeshiftermpc del <songpos>21:20
Shapeshifterit's all in man mpc21:20
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Shapeshifter(ohwait, the n900 doesn't have mandb :P)21:20
fluxmaybe someone could hack a net-based man alternative ;)21:21
pupnikty.  bouncy like fresh noodles.21:21
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Shapeshiftera pity that all the widgets are in the same thread :|21:23
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RST38hHmm...tmo fell into gerbilling21:27
RST38hThat looks like the end of it.21:27
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pupniklol what?21:28
pupnikwere someone's expectations not met?  stop the internet!  :P21:29
korhojoahm. I tried the xlv kernel21:30
korhojoai don't notice anything except that it now idles at 50021:30
korhojoapower savings ahoy?21:30
MohammadAGkorhojoa, USB cable connected?21:31
korhojoait's always at 500 mhz21:31
t-tankorhojoa: the ideal or the normal xlv?21:31
korhojoaunplugged it just two seconds before you asked21:31
korhojoastuck in a powerconfig thing to set it to never go higher than 50021:32
korhojoaseems to be working21:32
t-tankorhojoa: yes, 500 is the default21:32
korhojoasince it's now at a low voltage, it should be fine21:32
t-tanit runs 500 with very low voltage21:32
korhojoai mean, it's always at 500 when connected via usb21:32
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t-tanyes, that the case for all kernels incl .stock21:32
korhojoaah. but does it up the voltage then too?21:33
t-tanwhen and why?21:33
korhojoaI mean, they have different voltage settings. that's what the different speed 'tiers' are on the stock kernel21:35
korhojoasince this kernel now has two tiers, does that mean that it goes to the higher one?21:35
t-tancheck the details on
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DocScrutinizerflux: maybe someone can compile a mandb pkg for maemo?21:43
* MohammadAG wonders if that's easy...21:44
fluxdocscrutinizer, I was thinking something like #!/bin/sh  man =( curl "$1" )  using zsh syntax, but better21:44
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korhojoacan't you just alias that21:45
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fluxsure, once you have a service that gives out raw man pages based on manual page name21:46
fluxand add some support for sections..21:46
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korhojoafun thing to do when testing stuff: ssh in and do "watch ./" if you have the script from the post in the current directory21:46
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marcus_ You can use GTK for an app ui for maemo, right?21:49
korhojoagod damnit21:50
korhojoai did watch -n0 by mistake.21:50
korhojoadon't do this, kids.21:50
Lynouretell them why as well, otherwise curiousity will kill some of the cats.21:51
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DocScrutinizerI'd bet watch is spoiling results for a cpuclk freq statistics21:51
korhojoabecause you set the refresh to 0, and watch is a relatively simple program, if the thing you are watching too is very simple, it will cause a tight loop which runs until it catches an exception, which won't be caught since the cpu is too busy completing the watch command instead of listening to key input (or ssh)21:52
korhojoaDocScrutinizer: not really21:52
* DocScrutinizer points to powertop and likes to think there's been a bit of sensible considerations behind the design21:52
korhojoait's been fairly nice21:52
fluxit seems doubtful to me that is the correct interpretation of the situation :-o21:52
fluxbecause there are no realtime priorities involved, right?21:53
Lynoureexactly what I thought it would do... but weird watch even allows 021:53
korhojoayes. this was confusing to me too21:53
korhojoait also does not allow a value which is not divisible with 121:53
fluxkorhojoa, how about that it produced so much output that the terminal's processing became saturated?21:54
korhojoaeg. 0.5/2.521:54
korhojoaflux: that is possible too. didn't think of that.21:54
korhojoaactually, that's probably more likely21:54
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jacekowskilooks like somebody already reported that bug21:54
povbotBug 98897: was not found.21:54
korhojoaseeing as i was using ssh21:54
povbotBug 9889: Autobuilder does not upload packaged to extras-devel21:54
marcus_RST38H: GTKmm as well? (GTK+ for C++)21:55
fluxthe n900 watch doesn't appear to use curses, so it most likely redraw the screen fully every time21:55
korhojoawhy does nano-tiny not put in a alias (or symlink) to nano if nano isn't installed21:55
fluxwithout that -n0 would likely be well usable21:55
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flux(hm, or 'with that ncurses-support')21:56
* MohammadAG is building man-db21:57
MohammadAGsurprised there are no dependencies missing21:57
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korhojoasomeone should port uprecords to maemo21:59
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lcuki think im going to make a cheerleading ircbot22:01
lcukthat responds to "can someone port ..." or similar22:01
lcukto encourage op to do it22:01
lcukkorhojoa, if it matters to you, get involved and make a start22:02
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korhojoalcuk: i'm lazy and think i'll just try the package from lenny22:02
lcukgood idea22:02
lcuksome apps work nicely when just brought over and recompiled22:02
lcukthe package itself wont tho i believe22:03
korhojoano? :|22:04
korhojoalet's see22:04
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DocScrutinizerflux: for some manpages I really don't see I'd ever find it useful to have then rom internet only - ifconfig comes to mind22:05
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fluxdocscrutinizer, yes. but that's the rarest case.22:05
Jaffalcuk: We need to recruit RevdKathy as an MWKN contributor22:05
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lcukjaffa mwn could have public submissions ala slashdot?22:06
GeneralAntillesJaffa, you get the rope, lcuk gets the chair, and I'll get a set of those cool eyelid things from a Clockwork Orange?22:06
korhojoa package architecture (arm) does not match system (armel)22:06
DocScrutinizernevertheless one single rare case moots the whole concept. If I need mandb then I need mandb and if I got it, why go for internet based manpages then?22:06
_llll_flux: 'curl -s"$1" | less' more or less usable22:07
lcukkorhojoa, i told you22:07
lcukit still needs recompilation22:07
korhojoawhat's the darn difference22:07
korhojoathey've both got arm in the name :(22:07
lcukand thats only if the wind is in your direction and everything is fine22:07
flux_llll_, wel, you could use lynx to handle the HTML22:08
lcukkorhojoa :)22:08
korhojoafine. let's try --force-architecture then22:09
Treibholzwhat is the equivalent of .bashrc for ash? .ashrc doesn't work.22:09
marcus_I know this is kinda C++ related, but I'm working on a SDL snake game for my n900, and for some reason whenever it touches wall (when it's supposed to be game-over) it does a segmentation error.22:09
marcus_Why is that? (:22:09
Jaffalcuk: Public submissions are a case of someone doing "@mwkn" on Twitter.22:09
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ghostcube_maemohi is it possible to get freoffice installed?22:11
lcukso something like "generalantilles smells of elderberries @mwkn" would make it to the front page?22:11
korhojoadamn you, apt. that's not right: 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 379 to remove and 4 not upgraded.22:11
ghostcube_maemoapt is cool :)22:11
_llll_flux: hmm, is lynx installed? i guess could just launch microB or something22:12
ghostcube_maemodamn the ones made the packages22:12
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lcukkorhojoa, :)22:12
GeneralAntilleslcuk, an editor has to review the public submissions.22:12
fluxmarcus_, perhaps you should try debugging it on a PC with valgrind22:12
GeneralAntilleslcuk, only authorized users' submissions get picked up by the bot.22:12
lcukyou know how to flash stuff22:12
lcukyeah GeneralAntilles but cos its truthful it should be front paged instantly :p22:12
marcus_flux: never heard of that, but I'll take a look at it.22:12
korhojoawhat the hell. just looked at my rootfs. 14M available?!22:14
Treibholzkorhojoa: apt-get clean22:14
korhojoawow. 6 megs22:15
lcukyou added lenny packages list too didnt you22:15
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ghostcube_maemoyou tried move script?22:16
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* lcuk looks sideways22:16
korhojoaghostcube_maemo: yeah. i moved wireshark to opt22:16
DocScrutinizerflux: alias man 'dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="" --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request string:"$1"'22:16
korhojoaDocScrutinizer: that's pretty awesome22:17
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korhojoa:/dbus-send: Data item "bash" is badly formed22:18
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fluxyou actually need to put that as a shell function22:18
_llll_alias cannot have arguments22:18
DocScrutinizerooh, sorry. Was an instrument-flight22:18
korhojoaI mean, alias man='stuff' should be correct?22:19
_llll_if you put it in a script, remeber to quote the $1 in case someone does "man "foo;rm -rf $HOME"22:19
fluxman() { dbus-send ... }22:19
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DocScrutinizerflux: man () {'dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest="" --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request string:"$1"'}22:19
fluxdocscrutinizer, almost ;)22:19
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fluxhmm, actually does the shell support defining shell functions that way22:20
ghostcube_maemoi thinj22:21
ghostcube_maemobash 3 does22:21
korhojoasyntax error.22:21
_llll_yeah, dnot think busybox does22:21
fluxfoo() { echo foo } -> syntax error22:21
korhojoanor does bash on mine22:21
fluxdoes it have some other syntax?22:21
DocScrutinizerfunc foo {...}22:21
korhojoa(from repo)22:21
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_llll_tru function foo() { ...} but i doubt it works22:22
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_llll_also variosu combinations of spaces/no spaces between foo () and {22:22
fluxmaybe it supports them only in files22:23
_llll_i rmemerb trying some script with functions and it didnt work22:23
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_llll_but that script had lots of bashisms so cant remember why now22:23
DocScrutinizerfunction xxx { echo xXxX; }22:23
fluxwell, /etc/init.d/ is filled with functions using the foo() {\n ..\n} way and they work22:24
_llll_oh, no (), yay posix22:24
korhojoaholy ... , new lehto post: 1150mhz, 0x48, TALK ABOUT OVERVOLTAGE?!22:25
t-tankorhojoa: the last words lehto could write with his N900...22:26
MohammadAGoh wow, free space 8kb22:26
MohammadAGI need a new HDD22:26
_llll_what do these people run on their overclocked phones?22:26
fluxSETI @ Home, obviously22:27
MohammadAGMicroB ;)22:27
b-manfedora 12 :D22:27
t-tan_llll_: photoshop on wine on qemu22:27
trumeeanybody tried sip over vpn? Does the sip uri need a private address like 50@ or should it refer to public address like 50@xx.dyndns.org22:28
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pupniki just have non-vpn sip to a fixed ip addr22:28
MohammadAGt-tan, while emulating x86, since wine doesn't run on ARM devices :)22:28
* Treibholz would prefer more RAM, than a faster CPU22:28
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TreibholzSWAP is used all the time22:28
_llll_i'd like to "overclock" the physical size of the screen22:29
t-tanMohammadAG: that's why I listed qemu22:29
trumeeopenvpn works fine for email/browser but sip registration doesnt go through tunnel. And i am indeed using scripts from famous bug 1860.22:29
povbotBug Won't pass through VPN22:29
* DocScrutinizer is amazed people get the more excited about ultimately bricking they N900 the fewer they understand about how it works. The N900 free fly app also got quite some attention, but it was too obvious which parameters would cause a break22:29
MohammadAGt-tan, oh thought it was some app :p22:29
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pupnikhow about all portable manufacturers refuse to implement javascript or flash, forever22:29
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, overclocking is good, to a certain degree22:29
korhojoaDocScrutinizer: free fly?22:29
MohammadAG(ok it does shorten lifetime)22:29
WizzupAnyone who is using a BT keyboard for N900? I want one but I'm not sure what ones are compatible. I currently have a freedom keyboard here, but I can't get it to work.22:29
Treibholzpupnik: that would be great!22:29
MohammadAGkorhojoa, it measures how much you can throw the N90022:30
ghostcube_maemoyeah to 800 mhz should work22:30
korhojoaDocScrutinizer: ah, the throwing one?22:30
* DocScrutinizer has other means to shorten lifetime. Preferrably his own :-P22:30
pupnikwe can dream, Treibholz22:30
MohammadAGghostcube_maemo, any frequency should work, but it will shorten lifetime22:30
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, well you shortened your lifetime *ahem* :P22:30
Treibholzpupnik: even on my netbook it's a pain22:30
MohammadAGyour N900's lifetime*22:30
jacekowskipupnik: how would i watch my porn on n900?22:31
ghostcube_maemoyeah but isnt it by factory testet for this arm that 800 work ok?22:31
jacekowskipupnik: without flash22:31
Treibholzjacekowski: zooporn?22:31
korhojoahmm. the xlv ideal kernel should not shorten lifetime if it's not overclocking, right?22:31
SpeedEviljacekowski: use a stand.22:31
_llll_jacekowski: that's "overcoking", not "overclocking"22:31
_llll_err, overcokcing22:31
MohammadAGghostcube_maemo, no, OC damage is HW damage22:31
_llll_bah, cant type22:31
t-tankorhojoa: nope. if you set max to 600 you're totally safe22:31
GAN900ghostcube_maemo, it's rated for 600MHz and not fulltime22:32
fluxwhen does the maximum hz is taken into use?22:32
MohammadAGt-tan, wouldn't that cause his N900 to run slower than stock?22:32
fluxor would it still be overclocked before pmconfig is run?22:32
SpeedEvilt-tan: no.22:32
MohammadAG(lower voltage at 600 max)22:32
SpeedEvilt-tan: If it goes at 600MHz - it goes at 600MHz - voltage is irrelevant.22:32
ghostcube_maemosure i know it teps from 250 to 60022:32
SpeedEvil(othe than to power consumption)22:32
ghostcube_maemoi see it in conky22:33
GAN900ghostcube_maemo, even the speedbinned OMAP3530s are only rated for 720MHz22:33
ghostcube_maemohmm ok22:33
ghostcube_maemodamn i killed the clip for my n900 case22:33
t-tanSpeedEvil: max=limit, not the minimum. it the same limit the stock has22:33
hrwbut the good thing is that next beagleboard (beagleXM) will not use omap3530 ;D22:34
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ghostcube_maemowhere can i get the missing qt libs for koffice22:34
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korhojoaSpeedEvil: so it doesn't matter what voltage it uses if it's still going too fast for too long?22:36
Arkenoighostcube_maemo, wait for pr1.222:36
hrwghostcube_maemo: release on 12 November22:37
FIQlibsdl-mixeroggwav1.2-dev have unmet deps, libc6-dev and libsdl1.2-dev (version 1.2.4 or more), where can i find those?22:37
MohammadAGFIQ, PR1.222:37
hrwFIQ: inside of nokia22:37
GAN900hrw, what's it using?22:37
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* MohammadAG infiltrates Nokia HQ22:37
hrwFIQ: if you will sell your soul and 60% of internal organs then you may get it next week22:37
hrwGAN900: DM37xx iirc22:38
MohammadAG"may" lol22:38
DocScrutinizerGAN900: is this a secret or will Nokia announce officially the cpu-clockspeed tests implemented in this weekend? And how will it transfer the device ser#, or does it rely on IP?22:38
t-tankorhojoa, SpeedEvil: OPP are relevant according to TI, not frequency22:38
pupnik cat /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input22:39
pupniknormal temp?22:39
GAN900DocScrutinizer, I believe they'll use it for targetting the cruise missiles.22:39
MohammadAGthe exact opposite of normal22:39
MohammadAGpupnik, mine idles at 1322:40
MohammadAGor 1222:40
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korhojoamien says 1722:40
DocScrutinizerGAN900: sure. Or simply for warranty purposes22:40
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spliffy_i get -4022:41
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pupnikthe computer brain electro-god on the other side has been programming me heavily this week.  but it keeps forgetting the traces it leaves.  41 degrees!22:42
korhojoaspliffy: take it out of the CO2 bath22:42
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spliffyit's on my table22:42
t-tanspliffy: are you in Siberia?22:42
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spliffyno, im in europe22:43
spliffy7 degrees celsius outside.. but i'm at home22:43
MohammadAGthe -40 is actually 4022:43
MohammadAGidk why it says that sometimes22:43
MohammadAG(it could be +40, not sure)22:43
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dottedmagt-tan: it's ~0 in Siberia now.22:44
pupnikthey are trying to communicate to us22:44
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jaskamodulating the +/- signs?22:45
korhojoais there a way to check which voltage you're at?22:45
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MohammadAG/dev/sda5             10531272   9960264     36044 100% /22:45
korhojoapupnik: do you know how to do that then? if so, could you share?22:46
spliffyi exposed it to some heat, now it's at 2122:46
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korhojoaspliffy: what did you do?22:47
korhojoatake it out from a vaccuum?22:47
lcukheld it over his cig perhaps22:47
spliffyi didn't do anytho nspecial22:47
spliffys/anytho n/anything /22:48
infobotspliffy meant: i didn't do anything special22:48
t-tankorhojoa: if have the ideal kernel: modprobe bq27x00_battery; cat /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/voltage_now22:48
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spliffyoh and i don't oc22:48
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: I thought it would have been fair to announce the clockfreq survey to OC fanboys. But probably the 'reduce service costs' aspect took precedence - I'd not be surprised if Nokia actually leaked/prodded the OC-kernel to massively cut number of accepted RMA22:50
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, I have no idea what you're talking about. ;)22:50
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: oops sorry, forgot we're not supposed to discuss it in public22:51
t-tanDocScrutinizer: how do you know about the cheque in my mailbox?22:51
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DocScrutinizert-tan: I was one of the guys plotting the concept22:52
t-tanoops, rm -rf */memory/*22:52
pupnikgone daddy gone (your love is gone)22:53
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DocScrutinizerclockspeed test seems to slow down access to as well as repository update for me22:59
DocScrutinizerbut only slightly22:59
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marcus_How do I quit OpenArena on the n900? o.o23:04
DocScrutinizer8seconds power button hold ;-P23:04
pupniki say symbian is lookin nice and brushed up23:04
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DocScrutinizermarcus_: just kidding, no idea23:05
DocScrutinizermarcus_: I'm in a somewhat sarcastic mood, sorry23:05
TreibholzI never got Symbian to an uptime of 5 days!23:06
corecodeOC time!23:07
dssterGood day23:07
lcukTreibholz, ? symbian is easy to hold up23:07
hrwTreibholz: I got much longer times with S60 then week23:07
DocScrutinizermarcus_: still a short powerbutton push should get you the menu with "stop current task" maybe23:07
TreibholzI had a Siemens-SX1, a Nokia e61 and an e61i, all were damn unstable.23:07
hrwDocScrutinizer: powerkey menu is never granted to appear after power key press23:08
hrwTreibholz: I have e6623:08
dsstercorecode: what are the settings you're working with?23:08
DocScrutinizerhrw: that's why I added 'maybe'23:08
corecodedsster: i'm gonna first patch up the kernel23:09
corecodedsster: and then try and understand what these different voltages mean23:09
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MohammadAGmarcus_, = button23:09
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, not in the Quake 3 engine23:09
corecodedsster: then i'll look into specifying a maximum time on the highest setting23:10
corecodedsster: because i don't want to fry my cpu on some runaway process23:10
dsstero.O @ corecode: You're going to play with volgate? Be careful bud23:10
corecodedsster: but likely i'll start maybe with 800MHz23:10
dsstervoltage* :p23:10
corecodeof course23:11
dssteryeah 800mhz is a safe bet. I think should work on stock voltage though23:11
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corecodereduce voltage for conserving energy23:11
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DocScrutinizerdsster: WHAT is a 'safe bet'?? How'd you come to state such things?23:12
dssterFrom the forums i've read 800 mhz is easy to reach with no problems23:12
* MohammadAG lols23:12
dsstercorecode: what voltage are you attempting?23:12
MohammadAGdsster, the forums also say you should stay alive if you fall 100 feet23:13
DocScrutinizerdsster: take an axe. It's even easier and more reliable in result23:13
dssterIf you don't like overclocking go join # #maemoPleaseDontDiscussOverclocking23:13
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Treibholzthe n900 is not slow because of its CPU, it's slow because it doesn't have enough RAM.23:14
corecodeoh jesus23:14
corecodewhat is wrong with you people23:14
DocScrutinizerdsster: if you like spreading BS as given facts, then I'll happily help you to go anywhere23:14
corecodedo you drive in a car with a helmet on?23:14
corecodedon't you have a life?23:15
Treibholzcorecode: no, but with a seatbelt.23:15
ghostcube_maemoi read not only in forum about the 800 mhz thing, in german it magazines too so anything must be true with this.23:16
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hrwTreibholz: +123:18
corecodei'm sick of this constant FUD regarding CPU lifetime23:18
corecodeeach time somebody says OC, millions of people scream OH NOES TEH WORLD WILL END!23:19
MohammadAGcorecode, actually, he's right, you're wrong23:19
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corecodehow am i wrong?23:19
corecodeby having an opinion?23:19
corecodethat can hardly be wrong23:19
MohammadAGI didn't say that23:20
hrwI have to tell one thing: I am tired of that OC talks23:20
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MohammadAGBTW I have my N900 overclocked, but I know lifetime is less than a year now (at 800)23:20
hrwbasically each device now can be OC - nevermind which cpu it has23:20
corecodehow do you know that?23:20
DocScrutinizerI read on a thousand sites Man never reached the moon, so it MUST be true23:20
MohammadAGcorecode, it's 10 years at 500, 5 years at 550, do the maths23:20
ghostcube_maemodont start a moonlanding bash23:21
javispedrosigh. What I am tired off is the stupid importance people give to overclocking. it's completely useless.23:21
corecodewhere did you get these numbers?23:21
Treibholzme too, everytime I look in here, somebody is talking about overclocking...23:21
MohammadAGcorecode, Igor23:21
corecodeand igor knows that how?23:21
MohammadAGwell someone (a trusted person - not sure who he was) posted them here23:21
hrwtomorrow I will overclock my fridge23:21
MohammadAGcorecode, he's a Nokia engineer23:21
dmj726_n900I don't think anyone knows what the lifetime will *actually* be.23:21
javispedrohrw: it will freeze your stuff 0,5% faster!!!23:21
corecodedmj726_n900: tanks!23:22
javispedros/,/. (damn dot comma)23:22
dmj726_n900they can give reasonable guesses23:22
hrwjavispedro: 0.5 contra 0,5 depends on regional settings. for me 0,5 is proper ;D23:22
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LiraNunahow do you set a 128bit NEON register?23:22
Jaffacorecode: Igor Stoppa is one of the senior, principal, hardware engineers of the 770, N8x0 and N900 devies.23:22
javispedrohrw: me too :)23:22
LiraNunaI can see how to set a lane, but not all lanes23:22
t-tancorecode: 800 is actually a no-go frequency. it doesn't have the appropriate divider23:22
dmj726_n900based on what the chip is rated to last and the proportional decrease on average at a given voltage and clockspeed.23:23
DocScrutinizerghostcube_maemo: don't claim a high number of citations of a incorrect fact makes it any more correct or honorable23:23
Jaffacorecode: i.e. he knows of what he speaks. More than some forum dude who says "well, *mine's* fine so why did Nokia choose 600MHz, it's soooo slooooow."23:23
javispedroJaffa: I love how you put that in mwkn, "engineer extraordinaire" :)23:23
corecodeJaffa: yes, of course23:23
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t-tanigors comment on OC:
Jaffacorecode: Sorry, it's just the overclocking thread seems to think a sample size of about a dozen, over 3 days, equates to a proper soak test across hundreds of devices.23:24
Jaffajavispedro: Seems apt ;-)23:24
dssterI guess us hardware enthusiasts can't enjoy overclocking becuase the engineer sad it's a bad thing to do23:24
dmj726_n900that said, a few weeks of "mine is fine" does not equal "it will work for the desired lifetime"23:24
corecodebut really, i still don't understand how the frequency (without changing the voltage) would influence the lifetime, apart from heat issues23:24
corecodeJaffa: that thread is just major pain23:25
javispedrooh, god.23:25
dsstercorecode: don't even ask just follow instructions23:25
javispedrooh, god again.23:25
dmj726_n900corecode it does.23:25
corecodeanyways, where would i find the kernel source nokia is using, in a neat little repo?23:25
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dmj726_n900a computer engineer is telling you thins.23:25
corecodebecause with the debian sources i just get one huge diff23:25
Treibholzcorecode: well, you could tinker a fan in your device...23:25
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corecodeTreibholz: i said, apart from heat issues23:26
ghostcube_maemocooling board for N90023:26
Treibholzcorecode: heat IS killing hardware.23:26
corecodeTreibholz: yes, yes23:26
corecodeTreibholz: apart from heat23:26
SpeedEvilHome taping is killing music!23:26
dmj726_n900also, with things like clockspeed, it's actually good that companies are somewhat conservative.23:26
corecodeand michael jackson!23:27
SpeedEvilcorecode: wikipedia - see electromigration23:27
TreibholzSpeedEvil: I haven't use da tape in about 10years...23:27
TreibholzSpeedEvil: I haven't used a tape in about 10 years...23:27
ghostcube_maemohmm tapes will live longer than all of our damn mp323:27
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Treibholzghostcube_maemo: raid5 out of tapes?23:28
Treibholzthat could work.23:28
ghostcube_maemohugs his vinyls23:29
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: ah, birthday present? :)23:30
javispedroDocScrutinizer: joking, thanks.23:30
DocScrutinizerjust a comment on 'oh god again'23:31
DocScrutinizeryou know I get tired of arguing23:31
corecodeSpeedEvil: yea, sorry, still can't find a reference to frequency, just to heat and current density23:32
DocScrutinizercurrent density is a first order function of frequency, on some rails23:33
javispedroaha, free software zealot required in tmo thread.23:33
javispedroah no, he already came :)23:34
corecodeDocScrutinizer: how so?23:34
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SpeedEvilcorecode: current is approximately proportional to frequency * voltage ^223:35
SpeedEvilcorecode: and the area is set by the physical area of some critical path in the chip23:35
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corecodewhich frequency are we talking about23:35
SpeedEvilcock frequency.23:35
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corecodealright, maybe we should take this to ##electronics23:36
corecodebecause it is not clear to me how current is proportional to frequency23:36
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DocScrutinizerno, you should take this to TI-EE and Chip Design department, which came up with the numbers23:37
SpeedEvilWe are speculating as to the reason.23:37
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SpeedEvilIt could vary from all chips will die at 8000 hours +-1000 hours if overclocked to 720MHz.23:38
SpeedEvilTo no chips die ever, and it's a marketing thing.23:38
SpeedEvilUnless you have a very good contact at TI - you will never know.23:38
DocScrutinizercorecode: just as much for your enlightening: clock is switching parasitary capacitors in a chip. Charging  a capacitor more frequently needs more current obviously23:39
SpeedEvil(until devices start failing)23:39
Gh0styok just got the phone since friday ... just started to test with it :P23:39
Gh0stywhere can i find all the goodies? like for example extra profiles?23:39
corecodeDocScrutinizer: no23:39
corecodeDocScrutinizer: it needs more energy, not more current23:39
corecodeDocScrutinizer: it just needs the same current more often23:40
Gh0styand is it possible to put the 'messages' icon also in the phone screen?23:40
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ghostcube_maemoGh0sty: as an shortcut23:40
SpeedEvilcorecode: you're mislead - things are not ideal. In real life, it's not quite so discrete as that.23:40
DocScrutinizercorecode: and on lines averaging the pulses due to *their* parasitary capacitance to die it will result in a higher avrg current23:41
SpeedEvilcorecode: the current flows tend to blur into one another23:41
Gh0styghostcube_maemo: how then?23:41
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ghostcube_maemoclick on screen to get desktop meu23:41
ghostcube_maemoand there add shortcut23:41
corecodeGh0sty: tap background, tap gears top right, select add shortcut, select messages, select done23:42
corecodeseems you can only have one shortcut tho23:42
corecodenot on multiple screens23:42
MohammadAGnot if you clone the .desktop file23:42
korhojoaGh0sty: remember to overclock it to 1100 mhz though. I mean, you don't want to be stuck at 600.23:42
Gh0stycorecode: hmm i dont have the gears in the phone screen?23:42
corecodeGh0sty: tap background first23:42
SpeedEvilGh0sty: tap the desktop background23:42
* noobmonk3y waves :D23:43
MohammadAGGh0sty, just hold an empty area on the desktop23:43
* MohammadAG waves back23:43
ghostcube_maemohi noobmonk3y23:43
DocScrutinizerkorhojoa: warning!23:43
korhojoajust in case of mods: joke.23:43
noobmonk3yhey alls :D23:43
noobmonk3yhey ghostcube_maemo23:43
korhojoaand there it is23:43
Gh0styhmm but in the phone screen i only have the recent caller list, no empty background? :/23:43
korhojoathe free space between stuff23:44
korhojoathere's the buttons and caller list23:44
korhojoatap the empty space imbetween for example23:44
MohammadAGGh0sty, go back to the desktop23:44
korhojoadaym. need to charbe my keyboard. well. i guess that means it's time to go to sleep.23:44
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Gh0stythere is no space in between, they are underneath eachother :/23:45
luke-jrdoes anyone make a Mini/MicroSD card with RAM+flash?23:45
Gh0styunless i have an old version ? :p23:45
SpeedEvilluke-jr: they all have RAM23:45
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Gh0styor that 1 pixel? :p23:45
luke-jrSpeedEvil: really? in any case, I meant usable as a block device23:45
SpeedEvilluke-jr: it's just it's only a eraseblock or two in size, and it is not exposed to the user23:46
luke-jrSpeedEvil: think /tmp :)23:46
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SpeedEvilyeah - would be nice23:46
SpeedEvilhowever -23:46
LiraNunaI'm looking for the NEON intrinsic equivalent of SSE's _mm_set_ps()23:47
SpeedEvilnot that23:47
SpeedEvil(not worksafe)23:47
LiraNunaanyone knows what it is?23:47
luke-jrwould be nice if Nokia ported Linux to N8x0 like they advertise :p23:47
ghostcube_maemoGh0sty: maybe read this in the manual its good described there with pic23:47
luke-jrthen I could use ramzswap23:47
SpeedEvilyou can see there is very little space in a microSD23:47
ghostcube_maemoanyone can suggest a theme ?23:48
SpeedEvilPirate monkeys.23:48
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javispedroSpace pirate orangutans23:49
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TreibholzNazi Space Pirate Orangutans23:53
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ghostcube_maemoTreibholz: wär in nem de chan ein lebenslanger ban23:56
Otacon22patience has a limit: it is a month waiting to be solved the bug 776423:56
povbotBug WPA-EAP authentication fails with *any* expired certificate23:56
Otacon22why no one wants to fix it?23:57
javispedroOtacon22: lucky you I had to wait a year and a half.23:57
javispedroOtacon22: but then I had coding experience so I coded my workaround23:57
Otacon22i cannot connect to my university wifi network since when i've buyed my N90023:57
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