IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-04-08

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juliank	javispedro: Reinstalling the package makes them correct, so why would they prelink them on the firmware image but don't have prelink installed on the device to run after package installation?	00:00
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Proteous	maybe they are all just hacked binaries	00:00
javispedro	juliank: yes, that's what I think has been done indeed.	00:00
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javispedro	juliank: they don't expect anybody reinstalling packages on the device (save for SSUs), thus having prelink there is a waste of precious rootfs space	00:01
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juliank	javispedro: Installing upgrades would cause the same.	00:02
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juliank	the prelink effect would be lost then	00:02
javispedro	juliank: SSUs. that's known.	00:03
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juliank	OK.	00:05
javispedro	Arkenoi: sad truth (and this includes n900 promo video, look at the rotation animation). Everyone does it though (Apple was sued here for speeding up and "coolifying" the animations)	00:07
javispedro	(in a TV ad)	00:07
nidO	thats why their ads now have "not shown in real-time" or similar plastered along the bottom of them in the uk at least	00:08
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nidO	because they show the "click something" then immediately the "something happening" without the "wait 5 seconds" that happens in the middle being shown	00:08
shvedsky	when will they just show "LIE" near the ads?	00:09
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ptl_demands_PR12	javispedro: in the case of the N97 the 'coolify' was even bigger	00:09
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javispedro	ptl_demands_PR12: that's what the video tries to prove	00:09
nidO	the video's on an old firmware though	00:10
javispedro	but I don't have an iPhone to compare.	00:10
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MohammadAG	the iPhone opens apps real quick	00:14
MohammadAG	but I noticed how it does that	00:14
tripzero	readahead?	00:14
MohammadAG	it saves images of applications and open those, then replaces the app with the images	00:14
Noobmonk3y	"opens an app"	00:14
MohammadAG	opens*	00:14
MohammadAG	the images with the apps*	00:14
tripzero	lol, that's pretty cheatish	00:14
MohammadAG	well maemo does it, but not the same as the iPhone	00:15
MohammadAG	open the clock app in maemo, you'll see the background in low quality, then the clock itself will show	00:15
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Noobmonk3y	theres a clock app?	00:16
shvedsky	erm... I see only clock	00:16
nidO	...	00:16
javispedro	or the app manager. I have to wonder why more apps are not doing it too.	00:16
Noobmonk3y	ahhhh see what you mean	00:16
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* MohammadAG loves the new zoutube		00:19
MohammadAG	javispedro, DrNokSNES does it too I think	00:19
nidO	anything's better than the new actual site design	00:19
* javispedro knows (for obvious reasons)		00:19
MohammadAG	which are?	00:19
javispedro	that I made it...	00:19
MohammadAG	LOL	00:19
* MohammadAG failed		00:19
MohammadAG	big time	00:19
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javispedro	:P :)	00:20
Jaffa	Quick question, does PR1.1 use MyDocs/DCIM or MyDocs/.camera as the output folder for the Camera?	00:20
javispedro	DCIM	00:20
Noobmonk3y	dcim i think	00:20
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Jaffa	Hermes does it too.	00:21
javispedro	Jaffa: I know because I've always wondered why they implemented non-hidden hildon-fm "safe folders" (like music, documents, DCIM) but then didn't move .sounds to AUDIO	00:21
javispedro	and instead of that shipped the "Mac OS" "trick"	00:22
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Jaffa	...and I proposed it for Maemo back in March 2008: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/03/09/improving_application_start_up_mockup	00:22
timeless_mbp	javispedro: eh?	00:22
timeless_mbp	Jaffa: DCIM is a standard	00:22
MohammadAG	javispedro, just wondering, how is that image on startup thing done?	00:22
timeless_mbp	we've used it since day 1 of the n900	00:23
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* MohammadAG is thinking it has to do with the .desktop file for some reason		00:23
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javispedro	timeless: why .sounds, and not "sounds"? hildon-fm is now capable of handling non-hidden folders (does it for "dcim")	00:23
javispedro	s/does it/it does	00:23
timeless_mbp	javispedro: read #maemo logs	00:23
timeless_mbp	i've explained it before	00:23
timeless_mbp	heck, i think i started writing a blog entry for it	00:23
timeless_mbp	not sure if i finished	00:23
* _llll_ would also like to know		00:23
timeless_mbp	so go read the logs	00:24
_llll_	it's the kind of thing i expected on the wiki	00:24
* MohammadAG would like to know, but would rather read logs		00:24
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timeless_mbp	http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/170/	00:24
ptl_demands_PR12	does anyone know a good mkv (matroska) player on the N900? Does mplayer plays it?	00:25
ptl_demands_PR12	s/plays/play/	00:25
infobot	ptl_demands_PR12 meant: does anyone know a good mkv (matroska) player on the N900? Does mplayer play it?	00:25
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Scelt	that's corny, T-rex	00:25
Scelt	s/that's c/i'm h/	00:26
infobot	Scelt meant: i'm horny, T-rex	00:26
Scelt	:-D	00:26
javispedro	timeless: thanks.	00:26
Jaffa	MohammadAG: hildon_gtk_window_take_screenshot is the thing you want to Google	00:26
_llll_	timeless_mbp: thanks for the link	00:26
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* timeless_mbp goes back to fixing up the article		00:26
MohammadAG	Jaffa, thanks :)	00:26
timeless_mbp	it isn't anywhere near done	00:26
_llll_	i dont think most people would reformat something just because no files showed up	00:27
_llll_	instead they would say "it doesnt work" perhaps	00:27
timeless_mbp	_llll_: you haven't met most people	00:27
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javispedro	timeless: also you can document that via obex (pc suite) plain english names are shown :P	00:27
_llll_	thp: thankfully	00:27
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_llll_	err, s/thp/timeless_mbp/	00:27
timeless_mbp	javispedro: regardless of the language used on the device and by suite?	00:28
_llll_	good to know i can delete that file anyway	00:28
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Python implementation in https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=hermes;a=blob;f=package/src/org/bleb/wimpworks.py;h=4f602f2c2d1b90940c3958cab0a8d336ba09bfdf;hb=f0f5782da144008b3373c78e92967a3bbd78f0ec	00:28
javispedro	timeless: yep. you can look at ~/.obex-roots/	00:28
t-tan	we just found out that Nokia violates http://depot.javispedro.com/nit/thewarningtm.jpeg	00:28
javispedro	s/roots/root	00:28
t-tan	phone calls lock the device to 600Mhz	00:28
javispedro	yes, I'm going to spend more time in a phone call than playing drnoksnes!	00:28
ptl_demands_PR12	timeless_mbp: there is something wrong with your blog, the latest blog entry on the RSS and ATOM feeds is from 2008: http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/index.xml	00:29
_llll_	the explanation in "Why does Maemo fight the user by renaming and hiding dirs?" is hilarious, just shows why programmers should not be allowed to design things really!	00:29
Jaffa	MohammadAG: General trick is you connect your expose-event to a function which calls hildon_gtk_window_take_screenshot after a short timeout. If your app is launched via DBus (.desktop & .service file) then hildon-desktop will find the pre-saved image and show it whilst your app starts.	00:29
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Jaffa	MohammadAG: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=hermes;a=blob;f=package/src/org/bleb/wimpworks.py;h=4f602f2c2d1b90940c3958cab0a8d336ba09bfdf;hb=f0f5782da144008b3373c78e92967a3bbd78f0ec#l140 most specifically.	00:30
MohammadAG	Jaffa, thanks a heap mate :)	00:30
MohammadAG	I always thought it was something in Maemo 5	00:30
MohammadAG	i.e not app dependent	00:30
Jaffa	MohammadAG: App has to expose a screenshot which can be used sensibly.	00:31
javispedro	exactly	00:31
Jaffa	MohammadAG: i.e. clock has to do it before showing the time	00:31
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MohammadAG	Jaffa, can the quality be increased?	00:31
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MohammadAG	(in App Manager it seems to be highly pixelated)	00:32
MohammadAG	(funny thing is, I think the iPhone screens the clock too)	00:32
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timeless_mbp	ptl_demands_PR12: i only publish stuff when i'm done with them	00:32
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timeless_mbp	ptl_demands_PR12: 170 is nowhere near done	00:33
wazd	Oh my god :)	00:33
timeless_mbp	as evidenced by the timestamps :)	00:33
javispedro	MohammadAG: probably, you'll have to reimplement take_screenshot function though :D	00:34
wazd	Apple really rocks at UI design sometimes :)	00:34
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MohammadAG	javispedro, well the only app I ported opens with a dialog not a window	00:34
wazd	their ipad's screen keyboard actually has "blind mark" pn "J" key :D	00:34
javispedro	MohammadAG: UX team will kill you	00:34
MohammadAG	UX?	00:35
MohammadAG	~UX	00:35
javispedro	2010's way of saying UI :)	00:35
wazd	hello all btw :)	00:35
javispedro	moo wazd!	00:35
MohammadAG	javispedro, lol	00:35
wazd	javispedro: UX is a bit different thing btw :)	00:35
Jaffa	wazd: That's what all UI types say :-p	00:36
javispedro	the common use of it is pretty much interchangeable, though :)	00:36
wazd	javispedro: UX guys plan interactions :)	00:36
wazd	Jaffa: ohnos :D	00:36
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wazd	Jaffa: we're not like them! :D	00:36
wazd	but seriously, blind mark on the touchscreen keyboard - epic	00:37
t-tan	smooth user experience = SUX	00:37
wazd	http://besho.narod.ru/reviews/ipad/sc/7.PNG	00:37
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Jaffa	wazd: future evidence that a future iPad will have a physically morphing screen!	00:38
wazd	Really awful user experience - RAWX :D	00:38
wazd	oh, fail :)	00:38
javispedro	t-tan: btw, you packaged debhelper7? you might be interested in the discussion in -developers about pr1.2 sdk in autobuilder (one idea is to switch to squeeze toolchain)	00:38
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wazd	forgot the user :)	00:38
shvedsky	wazd: that should be on failblog	00:39
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lucent	hey guys, slightly OT question for N900 users, how do I enable the speakers?	00:39
lucent	I have the TVout cable plugged in and I'm looking for a way to use the built-in speakers while doing this	00:39
t-tan	javispedro: oh, thanks. I didn't follow the discussion on -devel lately...	00:39
Jaffa	lucent: Err, turn the volume up? They're "enabled" when the headphones aren't attached and ... ah	00:39
Jaffa	lucent: See how FM Radio does it	00:39
lucent	ah, okay	00:40
b-man\|ubuntu	infobot: failblog is a blog for all-things fail http://failblog.org/	00:40
infobot	okay, b-man\|ubuntu	00:40
lucent	Some Programming Involved :)	00:40
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wazd	Jaffa: first the webcam, then morphing glass touchscreen	00:40
b-man\|ubuntu	~failblog	00:40
infobot	somebody said failblog was a blog for all-things fail http://failblog.org/	00:40
b-man\|ubuntu	:)	00:40
wazd	and this is how an iPad looks for real btw: http://besho.narod.ru/reviews/ipad/10.jpg	00:40
javispedro	wazd: lol (to blindmark) :)	00:40
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Jaffa	lucent: Indeed :-)	00:40
lucent	http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmradio/ in case someone knows the answer already	00:42
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Lateralus	Having networking trouble in scratchbox; ifconfig returns SIOCGIFCONF: Bad address, and wget google.com returns Host not found. Won't resolve anything.	00:42
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Lateralus	My resolv.conf is the same as my host OS.	00:42
lucent	Jaffa: trying to find links to the source	00:43
javispedro	sbox has, like, three copies of resolv.conf	00:43
javispedro	Lateralus: do a find /scratchbox -name 'resolv.conf' and edit them all	00:43
wazd	what happened to engadget btw? is it an "ipad apps review" blog now?	00:43
* Jaffa got really pissed off with that when doing his VM for grads doing one-day Maemo dev		00:44
* javispedro is so pissed with the general status of name resolution in a typical desktop distro that has long switched to dnsmasqd/pdnsd (hey, like the tablets)		00:44
javispedro	in fact, I switched before they did that very same thing with network manager...	00:44
t-tan	javispedro: uh, who suggested switching to squeeze? wouldn't that delay PR1.2 till 2011?	00:45
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ptl_demands_PR12	timeless_mbp: hmm, stuff from 2008? You wouldn't be the management person responsible for releasing PR1.2, would you? :P	00:45
frals	wazd: ive found using engadget.com/exclude/apple/ makes for a much better experience ;)	00:45
lucent	folks, I have the link http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmradio/ from that how do I get to the source code?	00:45
javispedro	t-tan: autobuilder only. .symbol files would come, uh, "externally".	00:45
wazd	frals: oooooh!	00:45
_llll_	Lateralus: sounds like no device exists rather than a resolv.conf issue	00:46
C-S-B-N900	so how is this sister of bearcave channel getting on?	00:46
wazd	frals: can they mare /include/apple instead? :)	00:46
wazd	make*	00:46
javispedro	t-tan: (.symbols files for firmware packages, that is)	00:46
wazd	I bought the most boring gadget in my whole life - a fridge :D	00:46
Jaffa	javispedro: Have we got a proposed mechanism by which we'd generate them? Do we need source, and have we got source for everything we'd need it for?	00:46
lucent	argh, I just want the source code, or a link to how to get that, I don't have any intent to build the source	00:47
wazd	you blug it in, and it's on	00:47
wazd	plug*	00:47
wazd	what happens to my hands I wonder :D	00:47
Lateralus	seems to be resolving after I found /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf	00:47
_llll_	lucent: apt-get source	00:47
Lateralus	It won't download any data once connecting though	00:47
_llll_	if you;'ve enabled the deb-src stuff	00:47
lucent	_llll_: I can't do that	00:47
Jaffa	lucent: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/f/fmradio/	00:47
_llll_	you could just browse the repository alternatively	00:47
lucent	Jaffa: ah-ha, thanks	00:47
javispedro	Jaffa: theoretically, we don't need source, but some ugly blank magic with a nm-like utility, the two (old/new) binary packages, and patience.	00:47
javispedro	*black, not blank :)	00:48
Lateralus	apt-get update works, wget does not.	00:48
timeless_mbp	ptl_demands_PR12: nah	00:48
timeless_mbp	ptl_demands_PR12: feel free to read other articles	00:48
timeless_mbp	if you see bugs, lemme know, the sooner people review them, the sooner i can publish :)	00:48
Jaffa	javispedro: Sounds evil; would be good to have a PoC (and a poke of X-Fade, and then maybe Ed Bartosh, as to whether it's doable)	00:48
Jaffa	javispedro: ...and whether it solves all the issues.	00:48
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Jaffa	javispedro: I _think_ it does from the last time we looked at it	00:49
ptl_demands_PR12	timeless_mbp: how do I get the index for still-to-be-published articles?	00:49
javispedro	Jaffa: it solves the "first part" (detecting if a package I just sent to the autobuilder is pr1.0 or 1.2), but still doesn't solve the other questions perse	00:49
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Jaffa	javispedro: Ah, QA UI etc. Seems that there's some consensus around "promote everything at once" forming	00:49
javispedro	Jaffa: more than one QA UI is out of the question I think. Now, wheter there are two "package pipelines" behind or just one I have currently no arguments for one or the other, but for some reason having two seems to be preffered	00:51
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javispedro	by pipeline I mean "fremantle-extras-devel-1.0 -> -testing-1.0"	00:51
* Jaffa nods		00:51
juliank	Why is there a file "._	00:51
juliank	" on the device in MyDocs?	00:51
GeneralAntilles	timeless, "i"? Really?	00:51
ptl_demands_PR12	huh?	00:52
javispedro	It would seem to me that the simplest would be to just merge pr1.2 and pr1.0 in -devel and -testing and classify them at -stable promotion time would be easiest...	00:52
ptl_demands_PR12	[user@n900 MyDocs]% cat ._*	00:53
ptl_demands_PR12	Mac OS X 2��ATTR;��xThis resource fork intentionally left blank ��[user@n900 MyDocs]%	00:53
javispedro	don't do that! you'll break the internet!	00:53
Jaffa	javispedro: I think people are too worried that the situation we're in now would become typical; when the fraction of apps using the new symbols is miniscule, if any.	00:53
ptl_demands_PR12	juliank: mine doesn't have the "\|" but it seems something for Mac OS X, probably one of the hidden folders timeless_mbp was blogging about	00:53
GeneralAntilles	Ah, resource forks.	00:54
juliank	BTW, I get 14.28 MiB/s copying files to the eMMC via USB.	00:54
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GeneralAntilles	<3 Classic Mac OS	00:54
javispedro	Jaffa: that's a reason I think that the "just go back" option isn't so insane.	00:54
ptl_demands_PR12	GeneralAntilles: what is a resource fork?	00:54
GeneralAntilles	ptl_demands_PR12, not a data fork.	00:54
javispedro	Jaffa: being a geek of course I prefer the über complex one :)	00:54
GeneralAntilles	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_fork	00:54
SpeedEvil	juliank: You can get about 25M/s if you read from both at once.	00:54
GeneralAntilles	ptl_demands_PR12, has to do with HFS	00:54
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Jaffa	javispedro: :-)	00:55
SpeedEvil	juliank: mmc and sd	00:55
ptl_demands_PR12	ok	00:55
t-tan	javispedro: just read your yesterday's IRC discussion about autobuilder and squeeze devkit	00:55
SpeedEvil	Resource forks are in principle a nice idea.	00:55
SpeedEvil	If everyone did them	00:55
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javispedro	t-tan: feel free to point any inaccuracies, I'm mostly speaking for a hardly-lenny-user perspective	00:55
javispedro	s/for/from ...	00:55
ptl_demands_PR12	GeneralAntilles: so there's no harm if I remove it from my N900, since I will never plug it into an Apple device/laptop, right?	00:56
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GeneralAntilles	ptl_demands_PR12, sure.	00:57
t-tan	javispedro: how about setting up a parallel experimental autobuilder and uploading a couple of packages from extras to see how well it would work?	00:57
GeneralAntilles	It's not particularly difficult to get back, either.	00:57
GeneralAntilles	ptl_demands_PR12, it's just a bunch of aliases.	00:57
t-tan	javispedro: which role could dh7 play?	00:57
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javispedro	t-tan: we'd use the squeeze devkit one. Just poking you since you seem to have experience using it in Fremantle :)	00:58
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javispedro	ah, before I forget: whatever we do to the autobuilder would have to be easily replicated in local SDKs (more work)	00:59
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t-tan	javispedro: I don't think there would be issues with backwards compatibility	00:59
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javispedro	hopefully :)	01:00
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t-tan	we definitely should test it - it's too complex to make a good guess	01:00
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t-tan	Nokia should've used and supported the maemo-sdk+	01:02
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javispedro	I believe at this point that not even harmattan will use it.	01:02
GAN900	Harmattan will require submitting all efforts to Nokia for compilation under a "Nokia decides" license.	01:04
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tgalal	I'm trying to upload to extras-devel, but the builder fails for i386 message: dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory	01:05
lucent	Jaffa: FYI it looks like the FM Radio app does it by starting a gstreamer pipe from the PGA to the speakers	01:05
lucent	not trivial	01:06
javispedro	tgalal: post link to full log, if possible	01:06
tgalal	javispedro, https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/retroconv_0.5.0-1/	01:06
javispedro	lucent: that's how it "gets" the actual fm radio, but not how it enables speaker output iirc	01:06
lucent	javispedro: there's alsa mixer controls for it	01:07
lucent	I have some more tests to do and see if simple mixer controls can enable the speakers	01:07
javispedro	lucent: i think that's more like it, but I wouldn't be fiddling with alsamixer controls at random :)	01:07
timeless_mbp	ptl_demands_PR12: i can generate an index	01:07
Jaffa	lucent: There were definitely threads about it on maemo-developers and the alleged possibility of making things go "pop" in a bad way	01:08
ptl_demands_PR12	timeless_mbp: :] thanks. I found your articles to be quite interesting.	01:08
* ptl_demands_PR12 trying to compile hot-babe for the N900		01:08
lcuk	ptl_demands_PR12, it builds, but the window looks ugly	01:08
lcuk	it needs turning into a widget	01:08
* timeless_mbp runs the indexer		01:08
lcuk	not that ive built it or anything	01:09
timeless_mbp	ptl_demands_PR12: add .0 to the rss/atom feed urls	01:09
timeless_mbp	it should work	01:10
ptl_demands_PR12	seems I'm not the first one trying, lol	01:10
ptl_demands_PR12	timeless_mbp: ok, thanks!	01:10
lucent	Jaffa: uh-oh	01:10
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* timeless_mbp frowns		01:10
timeless_mbp	safari doesn't like my file	01:10
* timeless_mbp wonders why		01:10
Proteous	safari hates you	01:11
Proteous	you should go and stand in the corner	01:11
lucent	"# PGA Bypass MUST NEVER be used with speakers, ONLY with headphones!"	01:11
Proteous	think about what you have done	01:11
lucent	from the fmradio source	01:11
ptl_demands_PR12	timeless_mbp: tried http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/index.rss.0 and http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/index.xml.0 - didn't work	01:12
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MohammadAG	for those of you who know, where is the CPU physically located?	01:14
MohammadAG	looking at the manual and I'm assuming it's on the left part	01:14
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ptl_demands_PR12	this is important to know. If an N900 ever attacks you, you've got to aim to the heart.	01:15
ptl_demands_PR12	or the brain...	01:15
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lcuk	ptl_demands_PR12, you cannot kill the n900 - its like the borg and has a hive mind.	01:16
MohammadAG	ptl_demands_PR12, or just hit it with a grenade	01:16
lcuk	if you do murder one, the others will know.	01:16
GAN900	MohammadAG, there are schematics somewhere	01:16
SpeedEvil	There are naked pics somewhere.	01:16
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer+++	01:16
GAN900	PoP should say Micron on top, I think.	01:16
MohammadAG	WTF IS WRONG WITH TMO http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=600048#post600048	01:16
javispedro	DocScrutinizer+++++ indeed	01:17
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: the users.	01:17
timeless_mbp	ptl_demands_PR12: didn't work /how/ ?	01:17
MohammadAG	(sorry for the caps, it's just annoying me)	01:17
javispedro	now put out a pray or two for Doc's N900 :)	01:17
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, why do I have a feeling this wasn't the case two years from now	01:17
w00t_	any facebook addicts, take a look at http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=600100&postcount=81	01:17
SpeedEvil	MohammadAG: err?	01:18
timeless_mbp	hrm, that script isn't doing what i thought it was doing	01:18
* timeless_mbp goes fishing		01:18
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, umm, I mean I feel the forums were betters pre-N900	01:18
MohammadAG	better*	01:18
GAN900	duh	01:18
SpeedEvil	ah	01:18
timeless_mbp	sorry, try adding -draft1 to the url :)	01:19
timeless_mbp	not .0 :)	01:19
* w00t_ still says the forums are better just because he's on them now		01:19
ptl_demands_PR12	timeless_mbp: first one says not found, second one has no content	01:19
ptl_demands_PR12	oh, ok	01:19
timeless_mbp	too many scripts, i have to pay attn to which script generates which draft format :)	01:19
ptl_demands_PR12	timeless_mbp: worked, I'll subscribe to your feed.	01:20
ptl_demands_PR12	thank you!	01:20
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timeless_mbp	ptl_demands_PR12: i really don't promise the random extension will have content	01:20
timeless_mbp	eventually the primary urls will have content	01:20
timeless_mbp	it's just a matter of time	01:20
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ptl_demands_PR12	timeless_mbp: ok	01:24
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zappa	hi, how can i pull up the onscreen keyboard on my n900 while in xterm	01:31
tripzero	zappa, i don't think you can	01:32
zappa	hmm, how can i inout a > character?	01:32
lucent	Jaffa: Okay, I got it working with a bit of amixer cset voodoo	01:32
lucent	thanks for the tips	01:32
zappa	input rather	01:32
tripzero	zappa, ssh from a computer with a real keyboard?	01:33
ptl_demands_PR12	Alt-Ctrl (Alt is the blue arrow)	01:33
tripzero	or, bluetooth keyboard	01:33
zappa	thanks	01:33
ptl_demands_PR12	then you'll have extra characters keyboard	01:33
SpeedEvil	zappa: close the keyb - press on the screen	01:34
zappa	how do you generally pull up the normal onscreen keyboard? for any app so to speak. I enabled it in settings but have seen no effect?	01:34
SpeedEvil	blue-arrow - symbolkey - pressed in that order only	01:35
SpeedEvil	then release symbol and release blue	01:35
zappa	got it	01:35
SpeedEvil	zappa: press a textfield	01:35
SpeedEvil	zappa: with the screen open	01:35
SpeedEvil	zappa: err keyb shut	01:35
zappa	don't know how i hadnt notice it before	01:35
zappa	guess i usually have the keyboard open	01:35
SpeedEvil	Blame strong drink.	01:36
zappa	ture that	01:36
zappa	true even	01:36
zappa	by chance any one doing any qtruby dev on the n900 here? I'm gonna see what I can do with it myself.	01:37
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shvedsky	how can I contact atilla77? (I'd like to ask him about shepherd and GSoC.)	01:40
jacekowski	who had that chrome in gentoo chroot on n900?	01:40
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: wont' it work in easy debiabn?	01:41
SpeedEvil	maybe	01:41
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javispedro	chrome armel?	01:43
jacekowski	i just need info how long did it took to build	01:44
jacekowski	because i'm kinda stuck on linking chrome binary	01:44
jacekowski	( after ~45 minutes it failed on out of memory kill )	01:45
jacekowski	so i'm changing my vm settings to add more memory to vm	01:45
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jacekowski	but over 45 minutes linking seems little bit long	01:45
zeq	javekowski: are you hitting a swap storm?	01:46
javispedro	for webkit? i remember worse times when they were talking about tear :)	01:46
microlith	zappa: qtruby?	01:46
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mece	heh UAE runs unmodified. Not very easy to use though...	01:46
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zappa	microlith:: yeah qt bindings for the ruby language. someone has packaged it for either the n800 or n900.	01:47
microlith	ooh	01:47
microlith	maybe kaspernj	01:47
microlith	he packaged up stuff for Gtk and Hildon	01:47
zappa	when i search for it I don't find anything on the subject, but it is in one of the repos	01:48
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microlith	hmm	01:51
zappa	does the n900 support qt3? I'm all about doing some qtruby, but I think gambas would be great for the community	01:51
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microlith	you'd have to port it, N900 only officially supports Qt 4.6	01:51
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microlith	4.5 in the community repos	01:52
SpeedEvil_	I want to build ff1.5	01:52
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* microlith wants to build NCSA Mosaic		01:52
Jaffa	Can anyone remember OTTOTH how to reuse the Flash browser wrapper? I'm thinking of having the screensaver from the Joggler on my N900 as it's quite a nice fullscreen clock.	01:52
javispedro	zappa: note that gambas iirc had gtk+ support first, and maemo is pretty much still gtk+ these day.	01:52
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lcuk	jaffa theres notes on tmo about it on diablo	01:52
lcuk	not sure about fremantle	01:52
zappa	thx javisperdo, thats a good point	01:53
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microlith	mmm, Red Vines	01:54
microlith	and they're just stale enough to be perfect	01:54
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jacekowski	Jaffa: how long did it took them to ship it?	01:54
zappa	i'm not crzy interested in gambas as its a language that i personally think doenst lead anywhere, but at the same time it could be like bringing visual basic to the n900 and that means lots more apps	01:54
Jaffa	jacekowski: Ordered Good Friday, arrived Tuesday	01:54
microlith	zappa: as someone scarred by VB, that's not a good reference to make :)	01:55
zappa	red vines = crzy delicious	01:55
zappa	vb made windows in my mind	01:55
microlith	I was quickly moved by friends to Delphi	01:56
javispedro	Jaffa: is there a video of such an screensaver, so good that you'll even kill your N900's battery for it?	01:56
javispedro	(curious ;P)	01:57
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lcuk	javispedro, the alarmclock next to my bed (and the joggler) are both plugged in devices - overnight charging isnt a problem for some devices	01:57
tripzero	for odd reasons i'm noting that the media player cannot playback videos that i record on the n900 because it's an "unsupported format". howver, they work again on a reboot.	01:57
Jaffa	javispedro: It's in Mer at the moment.	01:57
tripzero	anyone else notice this?	01:57
SpeedEvil_	Jaffa: record a video of the clock. autoplay at midnight.	01:57
Jaffa	javispedro: http://images.intomobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/joggler-review1.jpg - it's basically a nice flip clock	01:58
Jaffa	SpeedEvil_: :-)	01:58
javispedro	Jaffa: aha	01:58
javispedro	feels sudden gadget lust	01:58
Jaffa	javispedro: 49 quid	01:58
Jaffa	javispedro: http://shop.o2.co.uk/joggler/	01:58
lcuk	jaffa - are you and mrs jaffa planning new offspring? o_O :D	01:58
Jaffa	lcuk: No :)	01:59
microlith	someone could make a killing reselling those outside the UK :)	01:59
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lcuk	thats very out of date clock jaffa	01:59
javispedro	hah, a properly priced internet tablet at last	02:00
Jaffa	javispedro: Mer runs; MeeGo (long term) and Mer^2 are my hot picks	02:00
Jaffa	lcuk: Or futurey	02:00
lcuk	jaffa is your mer on a stick	02:00
* javispedro decides to quit #maemo and go to joggler.org		02:00
Jaffa	javispedro: No battery, though	02:00
lcuk	its pasty	02:00
* javispedro quickly undoes that		02:00
lcuk	2009 june 12 was a friday, 2010 is a saturday	02:00
Jaffa	javispedro: And x86, so probably would be a large 'un	02:00
Jaffa	lcuk: Very futurey :-p	02:00
lcuk	either way, its wrong	02:01
zappa	u think atom is the future of mobile?	02:01
lcuk	does it pullback internet and auto tune	02:01
lcuk	or have you not got that far	02:01
javispedro	x86 device at 49.9 ?	02:01
javispedro	uh	02:01
microlith	zappa: for the sake of our battery life, I hope not	02:01
microlith	oh and competition :)	02:01
javispedro	I'm sure it runs MS-DOS faster than this desktop	02:01
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* lcuk feels a tingle when touching joggler screen		02:02
Jaffa	javispedro: It's very nicely built. The built in OS has two good features: a nice screensaver, a digital photo frame and a digital radio.	02:02
jacekowski	javispedro: with a touchscreen	02:02
javispedro	I would be sold at the idea of a 49.9 x86 "tablet" :P	02:02
javispedro	how pc-ish is it?	02:03
zappa	i was llokin ginto the new atmo arch harcore before i picked up the n900, the LG and the (avva?sp) look like they've got it all figured out	02:03
javispedro	I assume a lot, if Mer runs on it.	02:03
jacekowski	javispedro: it can run ubuntu	02:03
microlith	isn't the joggler running an Atom?	02:03
jacekowski	microlith: it is	02:03
javispedro	why isn't this joggler stuff, uh, more popular? why it doesn't even have a wikipedia article?	02:04
microlith	javispedro: iirc it's a re-brand of another company's product	02:04
jacekowski	javispedro: it used to cost over 100 quid not so long ago	02:04
Jaffa	javispedro: EFI rather than BIOS. Check Stskeeps' blog http://jogglerhacks.blogspot.com/ and http://wiki.maemo.org/O2_Joggler	02:04
javispedro	it's so near the impulse buy price point	02:04
Jaffa	javispedro: That's why I impulse bought it.	02:05
Jaffa	javispedro: 49 quid price is supposed to be limited to a couple of weeks. 800x480 screen. 1GB RAM. USB. Ethernet. Wifi. Digital radio. Digital photoframe. And seemingly hackable	02:05
zappa	u guys got it good. the good mobile tech never comes out in the states first	02:05
Arkenoi	wow where can i get one if i am outside UK?	02:06
Jaffa	zappa: It's a rebranded OpenPeak device	02:06
javispedro	Jaffa: so yes, now I understand microlith's point about making a fortune reselling :)	02:06
jacekowski	zappa: ARM is from england	02:06
jacekowski	zappa: 1st computer was built in england	02:07
javispedro	http://www.openpeak.com/OpenFrame7.php ?	02:07
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zappa	jackeowski: i could argue that on different levels,but I wont. I know here in the states we get screwd on mobiles and mobile plans.	02:09
Jaffa	javispedro: Earlier one	02:09
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zappa	Us just got screwed on net neutraility if u guys didnt see the news	02:10
microlith	not yet	02:10
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zappa	Federal court told the FCC (communications regulation committee) that they can't make ISP's NOT ban p2p.	02:12
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microlith	right, they said the FCC does not have the authority	02:12
microlith	they can be given the authority though, but that would require congress to act	02:12
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zappa	unfortunately Congress acts on money	02:13
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javispedro	Jaffa: what the hell. that stuff could potentially even run windows. decently.	02:15
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zappa	question for you all: In the states I have my n900 on Tmobile, which from what I understand is the seOver Is there a small company overseas that uses the ATT 3g signal?re Tmbile is small compared to ATT.	02:16
javispedro	the cpu alone should be a quarter of the price at least.	02:16
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microlith	zappa: overseas wehre?	02:17
microlith	where*	02:17
javispedro	now I'm mad :)	02:17
zappa	microlith:: anywhre the n900 is sold	02:17
microlith	well, the same frequency is used by some providers in south america and australia I think	02:18
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microlith	but that just means you won't get 3G	02:18
zappa	just curious why ATT with all their moeny would have targeted a different radio than most the rest of the world	02:19
microlith	not sure	02:19
microlith	I'm on AT&T, and it's not too terribly slow	02:19
Proteous	zappa, I doubt it was ATTs choice	02:20
Proteous	they just bought whatever freq was available at the time	02:20
zappa	the n900 definetly pulls up web pages faster than what my iphone 2g did	02:20
Proteous	with that stuff you just get what you can get	02:20
zappa	the us 3g frequenices were sold in an auction	02:20
Proteous	all freq are sold in an auction	02:21
zappa	tmobile got the scraps.	02:21
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Proteous	they sould just free up everything and make everyone use UWB	02:22
zappa	agreed	02:22
crashanddie	Isn't that like saying: "Stop using GMail, here's OWA"?	02:22
Proteous	no OWA love? heh	02:22
crashanddie	been using it exclusively for 3 weeks... No love, no.	02:23
zappa	its differen t crash, cause could use iether eith your provider	02:23
crashanddie	zappa: get a keyboard	02:23
Proteous	lol	02:25
Proteous	(typed on his ipad)	02:25
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crashanddie	seriously?	02:25
Proteous	no	02:25
Proteous	well, I guess it could be	02:25
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Proteous	but I just made that up	02:26
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crashanddie	CTCP VERSION reply from zappa: xchat 2.8.6 Ubuntu	02:27
crashanddie	Nope, just failwhale surfing on a keyboard	02:27
zappa	ipad i thin wold be neat to have, just overpriced is all i think	02:27
crashanddie	overpriced? It's cheaper than a N900 FFS	02:27
zappa	yeah but u could get a real deal tablet for the same price	02:28
crashanddie	eh?	02:28
zappa	u pay big money for hte n900 for the form factor	02:28
crashanddie	"real deal"	02:28
crashanddie	zappa: seriously, take a bit more time to spell and type correctly	02:28
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Proteous	and the is misspelled teh, not hte, get it right	02:29
zappa	crash: doing the best the beer will let me	02:29
Proteous	uh oh, drunkircing	02:29
crashanddie	zappa: not my problem. Either spell correctly or go slurr in the pub	02:29
zappa	crash: and its a netbook, tiny keyboard and all.	02:29
crashanddie	again, excuses, not my problem.	02:30
SpeedEvil_	Oh come on.	02:30
zappa	however, dinner is coming, thanks all for the info	02:30
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, N900 lets you slur in the pub.	02:30
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: except he ain't in the pub	02:30
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, yeah, yeah.	02:30
zappa	I do appreciate it, Crash and all	02:31
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: also, note I didn't prevent him from slurring on IRC while being in a pub :P	02:31
* C-S-B wants to be in the pub.		02:31
MohammadAG	http://static.apberget.se/images/p/g/3bf/3bf664d1c8fdd964c01ed9e4aacea783_522_600.jpg couldn't resist	02:32
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javispedro	i'm dangerously falling in love with this stupid joggler thing	02:34
javispedro	I blame you all	02:34
Jaffa	javispedro: It's sweet	02:35
javispedro	stop	02:35
tgalal	could some one help me out with these logs? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/retroconv_0.5.0-1/ why am I getting failed for i386????	02:35
javispedro	I'm not listening!!	02:35
* Jaffa really would like a Maemo 5 environment on it though		02:35
b-man\|laptop	LOL	02:35
Jaffa	All that touch scrolley goodness.	02:35
javispedro	noooo	02:35
GeneralAntilles	lol	02:35
Jaffa	javispedro: It's just like a portable, open, thicker, iPad.	02:35
Jaffa	javispedro: At a tenth of the price ;-)	02:35
MohammadAG	Joggler?	02:36
javispedro	must ... resist... too away... too far...	02:36
Jaffa	javispedro: If nothing else, cheap digital photo frame. How much do you pay for a 7" 800x480 digital photo frame with wireless?	02:36
* b-man\|laptop waves it in front of javispedro		02:36
* javispedro explodes, starts sending emails		02:37
Jaffa	javispedro: Join us :)	02:38
Jaffa	javispedro: If it's good enough for lcuk, lbt and Stskeeps; it's good enough for me :)	02:38
Jaffa	Oh shit. I should really go to bed. Long day tomorrow	02:38
* javispedro doesn't know how to import it either way, not with a week's notice :P		02:38
lcuk	jaffa mine is waiting downstairs unpowered up because it loses configuration every reboot	02:38
* lcuk would like a nice usb stick with mer on :)		02:39
* Jaffa beds. G'night		02:39
lcuk	\o	02:40
javispedro	gnite	02:40
b-man\|laptop	c ya jaffa	02:40
ptl_demands_PR12	I just tried to update luxus	02:40
ptl_demands_PR12	and look what happened	02:40
ptl_demands_PR12	dpkg: error processing /home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/qt4-homescreen-loader_4.6.2~git20100406-0maemo1_armel.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/hildon-desktop/loaders/libqtpluginloader.so', which is also in package qt4-maemo5-homescreen-loader	02:40
ptl_demands_PR12	:/	02:40
b-man\|laptop	that sucks :\	02:41
javispedro	probably pr1.2 autobuilder issue	02:42
ptl_demands_PR12	yeah. And it's caused by PR1.2 not being available	02:42
* b-man\|laptop wonders why they would release the SDK without a firmware update to prevent these kind of issues...		02:43
javispedro	so don't worry, it will fix itself. eventually. when pr1.2 is release, sometime around july 2012	02:43
ptl_demands_PR12	hmm-hmm.	02:43
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b-man\|laptop	this is why i didn't update my sdk yet ;)	02:43
javispedro	damn stupid joggler.	02:44
javispedro	get out of my head	02:44
SpeedEvil	javispedro: Stop misleading people.	02:44
* b-man\|laptop waves it in front of javispedro some more		02:44
SpeedEvil	javispedro: no way will it be that early.	02:44
b-man\|laptop	xD	02:44
ptl_demands_PR12	it seem we're building a whole mythology around PR1.2	02:45
Proteous	heh	02:45
javispedro	SpeedEvil: but I have insider info! that's what my magic 8-ball is telling me at least!	02:45
Ken-Young	I understand it ties up some of the loose plot elements in "LOST".	02:46
* SpeedEvil inspects his magic-8-balls.		02:46
SpeedEvil	'ask again later'	02:46
javispedro	mine has been upgraded to say "ask again in july 2012	02:46
javispedro	"	02:46
b-man\|laptop	i think the PR1.2 update is somewhat similar to the Maemo4>4.1 situation	02:46
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javispedro	IMO it's more similar to Maemo4=4.1	02:47
javispedro	since it breaks abi from chinook/4.0	02:47
javispedro	but still so similar	02:47
b-man\|laptop	yeah	02:47
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ptl_demands_PR12	hermes doesn't do that	02:48
ptl_demands_PR12	is there an easy way to integrate msn (haze) contact pictures into the N900 contacts?	02:48
javispedro	bahj	02:48
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javispedro	why does everything remind me of the joggler	02:49
b-man\|laptop	LOL	02:49
javispedro	at look at my monitor, see my displaylink/dlo usb port and think hm.. joggler has usb host...	02:49
javispedro	*I look	02:49
b-man\|laptop	try just imagining something else, it works for me xD	02:50
javispedro	porn	02:50
javispedro	doesn't work.	02:50
b-man\|laptop	rofl	02:50
* SpeedEvil cues the flashback scene from Airplane.		02:50
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b-man\|laptop	javispedro: try not to imagine joggler and porn together - it sounds very wrong xD	02:52
fqhuy	Hi, anyone knows about performance of PyQT4 in Maemo (n900)	02:52
fqhuy	is it acceptable	02:52
brik	does anyone else have problems logging into msn using "MSN protocol plugin for Conversations and Contacts"?	02:53
javispedro	b-man\|laptop: indeed the name of the thing wasn't chosen wisely	02:53
b-man\|laptop	lol yes xD	02:53
Robot101	javispedro: well we got complained at for telepathy-haze :P	02:54
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javispedro	yes, telepathy is such a bad name >:)	02:55
ptl_demands_PR12	and at the same time so good a name.	02:55
Robot101	it used to be called IPCF, so count yourself lucky :D	02:55
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javispedro	ipcf-haze, much better and politically correct :)	02:56
* javispedro 's firefox's awesomebar is already full of joggler stuff :(		02:57
b-man\|laptop	xDD	02:57
ptl_demands_PR12	javispedro: what OS does this joggler thingie run?	02:59
javispedro	propietary os afaiu, but linux.	02:59
ptl_demands_PR12	"but linux"? A closed-down linux system?	03:00
javispedro	custom ui	03:00
javispedro	flash based	03:00
b-man\|laptop	well, if it's linux, you can always install something else :)	03:00
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ptl_demands_PR12	hmm	03:02
b-man\|laptop	it's kinda creative that it's flash-based, admiringly	03:02
b-man\|laptop	**admittingly	03:02
b-man\|laptop	gah	03:02
* b-man\|laptop needs coffee xD		03:02
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ptl_demands_PR12	maybe I could use my old HTC Athena - picture at http://images.wmexperts.com/articleimages/2007/_/_media_2007_03_htc-advantage-us.jpg - for such a calendar. nevertheless, based on two reviews I've just read, I didn't find this joggler very useful.	03:02
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javispedro	well, my m130 is starting to .. uh, get old as wall pda :)	03:03
javispedro	screen is pretty dim, touch screen is pretty unsensitive, and battery lasts four or five seconds	03:03
* b-man\|laptop wonders why NetBSD refuses to properly support newer arm architectures		03:04
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zappa	@fqhy http://blog.rburchell.com/2010/04/qt-on-maemo-warning.html	03:12
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crashanddie	b-man\|laptop: because BSD is going the way of the dodo	03:15
b-man\|laptop	lol	03:16
zappa	bsd is being used in other good things like the haiku os	03:16
tgalal	ok app has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel repository, how long does this usually take?	03:17
crashanddie	I thought you said good things?	03:17
zappa	heh	03:17
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MohammadAG	X-Fade, ping	03:39
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b-man\|laptop	~ping	03:47
infobot	~pong	03:47
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crashanddie	lmao	03:56
crashanddie	53 reports about the fake pr1.2 release	03:56
b-man\|laptop	rofl	03:57
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lcuk	crashanddie, which part was fake	03:57
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crashanddie	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=598720#post598720	03:58
* MohammadAG remembers he reported that		03:58
crashanddie	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=598795#post598795	03:58
MohammadAG	crashanddie, why don't you delete those?	03:59
MohammadAG	instead of locking	03:59
crashanddie	because, we're not allowed to delete anymore	03:59
crashanddie	anyway, I resigned from my moderator position	03:59
MohammadAG	because apple does it?	03:59
MohammadAG	lol why?	03:59
crashanddie	Too much drama, can't be bothered anymore	04:00
MohammadAG	how many mods does the site have again?	04:00
crashanddie	Some wanker tells people to use extras-devel to absolute noobs, I delete the message, and the guy goes to the council because I'm abusive	04:00
MohammadAG	o.O	04:00
crashanddie	If I don't delete the message, we get 1 report per half hour for the next 2 days	04:01
crashanddie	If I do delete it, I get shit	04:01
crashanddie	If I edit it, I get shit	04:01
MohammadAG	so you're losing either way :/	04:01
crashanddie	If I warn the guy, I get shit	04:01
crashanddie	If I give him an infraction, I get shit for being abusive, and power-hungry	04:02
MohammadAG	that just sucks	04:02
lcuk	moderation - do not delete - just wipe things below the threshhold of normal users	04:02
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corecode	honestly, i think the maemo community is too conservative	04:02
crashanddie	If we move threads around, some people start threads saying that we're abusive, elitist, and shaping the forum in a way only us want to see it	04:02
lcuk	we managed 18pages of potential porn	04:02
corecode	so what, some guy uses the devel repo	04:02
corecode	big deal	04:03
crashanddie	if we don't move them around, we have people complaining that the moderators don't do anything	04:03
MohammadAG	ban those who you think are wrong	04:03
MohammadAG	problem solved	04:03
crashanddie	corecode: so a guy who doesn't even understand how to use skype on his N900 should be using bleeding edge apps?	04:03
corecode	why not?	04:03
corecode	his phone	04:03
MohammadAG	he shouldn't have an N900	04:03
corecode	no offense, but tmo sucks	04:03
lcuk	why not?	04:03
crashanddie	corecode: because we'll get 10 times the amount of crap once he breaks it?	04:03
corecode	and i don't think it is the moderators	04:03
Ken-Young	crashanddie, Why don't you just do what you think is appropriate, and if the complaints get you removed as a moderator, so be it?	04:03
lcuk	we should be embracing users	04:03
corecode	it is the users	04:03
lcuk	well, not literally	04:04
corecode	every user wants to say something	04:04
crashanddie	Ken-Young: because I have better things to do in life than get yelled at when I'm trying to help?	04:04
MohammadAG	and I thought the site I mod was crap...	04:04
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corecode	i can't use tmo	04:04
MohammadAG	never had any mod issues except one or two who'd PM stuff when you give them an infraction	04:04
crashanddie	lcuk: depends which ones, I don't mind embracing female users	04:04
MohammadAG	lol	04:05
lcuk	be careful, some of those you call female have lunchboxes	04:05
crashanddie	lcuk: I really made an effort on the type of comments I made on tmo ever since I became a mod	04:05
tgalal	how long does it take for a package to appear in extra-devel ?	04:05
Ken-Young	tgalal, If it builds properly, it's almost instantaneous.	04:06
MohammadAG	takes 30 minutes here	04:07
MohammadAG	it's instant when I upload the old version with a new number (just to make me look like an idiot)	04:07
tgalal	it's been an hour, and the build logs show OK	04:07
lcuk	tgalal, this delay gets me everytime i submit to builder	04:08
Ken-Young	tgalal, What's the package name?	04:08
lcuk	because i have to also wait - and it feels like months	04:08
Ken-Young	I've never seen a significant delay.	04:08
tgalal	Ken-Young, retroconv	04:08
lcuk	Ken-Young, i usually upload a library, then apps using that library	04:09
lcuk	they cant go in at same time	04:09
lcuk	its an eternity	04:09
MohammadAG	(if you time it, it's actually less than an hour, but it feels longer :P)	04:09
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tgalal	maybe I screw something up in packaging	04:12
tgalal	I've trying to get it right for like 5 hours	04:12
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MohammadAG	tgalal, if it says OK just wait	04:13
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Ken-Young	tgalal, There is a warning with your package build. It says the package does not have a proper description.	04:13
lcuk	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/retroconv/0.5.0-1/	04:13
lcuk	tgalal, to extend what ken just said ^	04:14
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lcuk	read the package page	04:14
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lcuk	i wonder, are these faults reported in the cauldron build log sent to email?	04:14
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tgalal	Ken-Young, what should a proper description look like	04:15
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lcuk	tgalal, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_packaging	04:15
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tgalal	lcuk, aghh not another guide ! lol	04:16
Ken-Young	tgalal, Do you have a Decription field in your control file?"	04:16
Ken-Young	Description	04:16
tgalal	Ken-Young, yes I do	04:17
crashanddie	I feel like I'm commiting incest	04:17
crashanddie	I'm using grep on Windows.	04:18
Ken-Young	Can you show us (pastebin or something)?	04:18
tgalal	the description is also shown when I try to open with gdebi on ubuntu	04:18
tgalal	ok 1 sec	04:18
crashanddie	Ken-Young: grep " 18:2" iasp-server.2010-03-31.log >> result.log	04:18
Ken-Young	Sorry, crashanddie - I was responding to tgalal , but didn't tag my response.	04:19
crashanddie	Ken-Young: I know, I was being thick on purpose	04:19
tgalal	Ken-Young, http://pastebin.com/vGeFRqFy	04:20
tgalal	follows this the XB-Maemo-Icon-26: section	04:20
Ken-Young	tgalal, Is line 12 all one long line?	04:21
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tgalal	yes	04:21
Ken-Young	tgalal, I don't know if this is the problem, but it may not like the long line. In my package, I have broken the long description into several separate lines. Each of them must start with a space.	04:22
tgalal	Ken-Young, I'll give it a shot, thanks	04:23
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GAN900	Hooboy	04:37
GAN900	Gotta love Talk	04:37
GAN900	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=600274&postcount=43	04:38
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ea_suter	howdy	05:02
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corecode	is there something better than the backup app?	05:03
corecode	something to save my ~ off-device?	05:03
timeless_mbp	rsync?	05:03
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corecode	yea, sure	05:05
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corecode	something nicely packaged, only running when i am on certain wifi networks	05:05
corecode	etc.	05:05
corecode	maybe only with wifi and battery plugged in	05:05
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ea_suter	I have a question about GSOC application: if I'de like to apply to work on an idea in the list (or a bunch of them), do I write up my own application and send it to you or do you guys have a template?	05:15
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Ken-Young	ea_suter, There's usually more activity on this channel during the evening hours in Europe.	05:22
ea_suter	right...	05:22
ea_suter	thanks anyhow	05:22
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crashanddie	ea_suter: contact VDVvx	05:28
crashanddie	VDVsx, sorry	05:28
crashanddie	ea_suter: drop him an email, he should be quite responsive from 10AM GMT	05:28
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crashanddie	corecode: no app like that, but I'm sure it would have a lot of success. Might even plug-in to the export framewokr	05:30
ea_suter	I did	05:30
ea_suter	but he didn't mention any specifics about applying	05:30
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ea_suter	I guess that if I send him my application it should be alright?	05:31
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crashanddie	ea_suter: did you check the wiki pages?	05:36
crashanddie	ea_suter: the application process is listed there	05:36
ea_suter	ok, thanks	05:40
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crashanddie	~ping	05:47
infobot	~pong	05:47
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DocScrutinizer	~ding	06:03
infobot	dong	06:03
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godrik	I would like to run some code frequently on my N810 and only when I have an internet access	06:29
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godrik	On a classical linux, I would use cron, but I though there was something better on maemo	06:30
godrik	any comments ?	06:30
Lateralus	godrik: "better"? Is there something you need to do which cron does not allow?	06:30
godrik	well, typically, i don't want to do anything if I don't have an internet access	06:31
godrik	I could just test that at the beginning of my script	06:31
godrik	but I though there might be a system that would run the script as soon as an internet connexion appear in that case	06:31
godrik	omweather does something like that for instance.	06:32
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godrik	and I don't recall seeing cron or at by defaut on my n810	06:33
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Lateralus	godrik: may be something you can pull off with dbus in this regard	06:34
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godrik	mmm, Iam going to have a look at that	06:36
godrik	thank you	06:36
godrik	did someone ported wget or curl ?	06:37
DocScrutinizer	on maemo5 there's alarmed app	06:39
Ken-Young	godrik, wget is there, if you're talking about Maemo 5.	06:39
godrik	nop, I am talking about diablo	06:39
Ken-Young	Sorry	06:40
godrik	thank you for the info anyway :)	06:40
dotblank	ok	06:41
dotblank	When you set an sms message does it copy it to the root fs?	06:41
dotblank	sms message alert	06:42
dotblank	because I set the sms alert tone to a named pipe and it generates random wav sounds	06:42
dotblank	So far when I receive an sms it is actually the first sound that I put into the pipe	06:43
DocScrutinizer	err, sorry, can't follow	06:45
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DocScrutinizer	if I make any sense of what you say, I conclude the system creates a .wav backup of the ringtone selected, at the time you actually select the original ringtone. I think I remember to have seen such 'cache' files in some hidden drawer somewhere	06:48
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dotblank	DocScrutinizer, I tried searching for files of a similar size none came up	06:55
DocScrutinizer	dotblank: that might fail as probably it's transcoded to another format, so changes size. Check for new files, or compare a full ls -a >before.txt with after.txt	06:57
DocScrutinizer	btw I think I've seen those cached files somewhere in ~	06:59
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DocScrutinizer	the named-pipe idea is actually intriguing	07:01
dotblank	yea it actually works really weel	07:02
dotblank	well.. like I can select the file from the list and it plays random files each time i play it	07:02
dotblank	just when I get a message seems to have a cache	07:02
DocScrutinizer	duh	07:03
DocScrutinizer	sms alarmtone is different to ringtone?	07:03
dotblank	nah.. I was setting the sms alarm tone	07:03
dotblank	it was really hard to get a named pipe into the MyDocs folder	07:05
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DocScrutinizer	I bet it was. MyDocs is VFAT	07:05
dotblank	mounted a 1mb loopback ext2 in the vfat	07:06
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DocScrutinizer	yay	07:06
dotblank	also has a symlink to root	07:06
DocScrutinizer	why didn't you create the pipe in ~ simply?	07:06
dotblank	the drop down menu doesn't give you access to it	07:07
DocScrutinizer	yep	07:07
dotblank	only to contents in MyDocs	07:07
DocScrutinizer	I 'fixed' that mega-annoyance by bindmounting / to MyDocs/rootlink	07:08
DocScrutinizer	but I fail to understand why you ned access to the named pipe via this braindead filemanager selector	07:09
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dotblank	to select a named pipe to be usedf as an alert.	07:10
DocScrutinizer	aaaah	07:10
dotblank	in the background I have a script piping sound into it	07:10
DocScrutinizer	darn	07:11
dotblank	oh I found the location of the cache	07:11
DocScrutinizer	:-D	07:11
DocScrutinizer	where is it?	07:11
dotblank	/home/user/.local/share/sounds	07:11
DocScrutinizer	yep	07:11
DocScrutinizer	toldy it's in ~	07:11
dotblank	I compared the diffs of my entire FS	07:11
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DocScrutinizer	also I remembered it's hidden	07:11
DocScrutinizer	woohaa, my brain has a neuron left that really works :-P	07:12
dotblank	it encodes it to wav	07:12
dotblank	you were right about location and encoding	07:12
DocScrutinizer	3. point I remembered :-D	07:12
dotblank	brb	07:13
DocScrutinizer	kepp us updated please :-)	07:13
DocScrutinizer	dotblank: so now you know location of the cache, you don't need fileselector access any more ;-D. Just place your named pipe there	07:16
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ptl_demands_PR12	what OS the joojoo tablet runs on?	07:20
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dotblank	DocScrutinizer, not so fast I have to make sure I encode all the files to the same wav format and quality	07:24
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DocScrutinizer	dotblank: you tried playback of the cache file?	07:25
dotblank	im about to just got back	07:25
DocScrutinizer	or a simple 'file <cachefile>'	07:25
dotblank	ok playback worked	07:26
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dotblank	Uncompressed 16-bit PCM audio Mono 48000 Hz	07:26
dotblank	is the fileformat	07:26
DocScrutinizer	amazing	07:26
dotblank	gah	07:27
DocScrutinizer	I would have expected a 24KHz	07:27
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dotblank	my source file has a lower hz	07:27
dotblank	I think it will play ok anyway	07:27
DocScrutinizer	tzzz	07:27
DocScrutinizer	not really. probably they use 48KHz so they don't need to transcode it during playback	07:28
dotblank	ok im testing t	07:30
dotblank	YES!!!	07:30
dotblank	I think it works	07:30
dotblank	Awesoem	07:31
dotblank	I now have a random SMS alert	07:31
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dotblank	I took the entire Starcraft unit selection sounds and am now using them as random sms alerts	07:31
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dotblank	now I need to run "hile true; do /usr/bin/gnu/shuf /home/user/MyDocs/SC1S/list.txt \| head -n 1 \| xargs cat 1>/home/user/.local/share/sounds/Love\ Sounds.mp3.wav; done" as a daemon	07:32
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DocScrutinizer	sorry, was offline. have I missed a post before that last one?	07:33
dotblank	<dotblank> ok im testing t	07:34
dotblank	<dotblank> YES!!!	07:34
dotblank	<dotblank> I think it works	07:34
dotblank	<dotblank> Awesoem	07:34
dotblank	<dotblank> I now have a random SMS alert	07:34
dotblank	* clicx has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)	07:34
dotblank	<dotblank> I took the entire Starcraft unit selection sounds and am now using them as random sms alerts	07:34
DocScrutinizer	yeeeha! :-D	07:34
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dotblank	now I just need to run the above command at start in the backgound	07:35
* DocScrutinizer hands hacker-of-the-day batch to dotblank		07:36
dotblank	Im going to make a post about this on maemo.org	07:36
DocScrutinizer	great	07:37
DocScrutinizer	you are aware how mad useful this is as well for contact specific ringtones?	07:37
dotblank	hmm.. not too sure..	07:38
dotblank	I guess what would happen	07:38
dotblank	dbus wopuld send a message about contact info	07:38
dotblank	on incoming call	07:38
dotblank	listen for it and then pipe contact ringtone into named pipe	07:39
DocScrutinizer	yep	07:39
dotblank	do I win anything?	07:39
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DocScrutinizer	you won the batch ;-D	07:39
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dotblank	ok now to make a simple python script to do this	07:40
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dotblank	brb again	07:41
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dotblank	back	07:44
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dotblank	wonder if I can pipe espeak to say aloud the contact's name	07:46
dotblank	I could make it say "call from dotblank"	07:47
dotblank	as the ringtone for that person	07:47
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DocScrutinizer	should work	07:48
dotblank	I don't think any current phone can do that really	07:48
DocScrutinizer	and actually there's a really dirty hack doing this	07:48
naxu	s60 devices can do it	07:48
naxu	it syntesizes caller name on top of normal ringintone	07:49
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DocScrutinizer	yep	07:49
DocScrutinizer	that's nasty	07:49
dotblank	or make it read the sms	07:50
DocScrutinizer	well, that's not necessarily coupled to alarm tone playback	07:51
DocScrutinizer	but things like ramp up ringtone volume, contact specific ringtones etc pp - that's really a good concept to implement such things	07:52
dotblank	well I just tested piping espeak and it works	07:52
dotblank	date	07:53
dotblank	ment to type that in a terminal	07:53
Proteous	ls -la /etc/network	07:55
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ptl_demands_PR12	good morning, crashanddie	07:59
crashanddie	it's 3PM :)	07:59
crashanddie	good morning	07:59
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DocScrutinizer	dotblank: now if headset pushbutton and voicedial would work, then we really fixed headset usability	08:01
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dotblank	dbus monitor into espeak is hilarious	08:04
* DocScrutinizer wonders if there's a GSoC project for a basic speech2txt to implement voice dialing and voice cmds		08:05
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ptl_demands_PR12	that would be nice	08:06
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: isn't there a sister project for asterisk that does that?	08:06
DocScrutinizer	It's kinda embarrasing N9x is brilliant on that, and N900 can't do at all	08:06
ptl_demands_PR12	and it's something that we need to catch up on the android and iphone fronts	08:06
crashanddie	erhm... the android one sucks donkey balls	08:06
ptl_demands_PR12	really?	08:06
crashanddie	yeah	08:06
ptl_demands_PR12	I have no practice on it	08:06
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: asterisk? sounds quite unrelated, but well... anyway never heard of it	08:07
ptl_demands_PR12	nevertheless it's there, and ours isn't	08:07
ptl_demands_PR12	crashanddie: 3 pm? Where do you live? It's 2 AM here in Brazil	08:07
crashanddie	ptl_demands_PR12: as in: say "encule" (roughly translated as asshole in english), and it will pick a contact at random	08:07
dotblank	cmon look at google voice their sppech2text is terrible. If they can't get that right how would android	08:07
crashanddie	dotblank: because they're not based on the same technologies?	08:07
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dotblank	I guess I should never attempt humor in an irc channel	08:08
RST38h	moo all	08:08
crashanddie	well, you can, but if your humour is shit, it doesn't really matter	08:08
dotblank	:(	08:09
MiXu-	The voice commands are shit for Finnish language even on S60 :P	08:09
MiXu-	They "sort of work"	08:09
DocScrutinizer	moo RST38h	08:09
DocScrutinizer	dotblank: :-D	08:09
ptl_demands_PR12	symbian has speech2text?	08:10
DocScrutinizer	yess	08:10
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ptl_demands_PR12	and can't they port it to maemo/meego?	08:10
DocScrutinizer	and it works like a charm on german N95	08:10
RST38h	ah those germans...	08:10
MiXu-	N900 is the first Maemo phone. You can't expect it to have _everything_ that Symbian/S60 has.	08:11
RST38h	By the way, voice commands is not the same thing as speech to text	08:11
DocScrutinizer	even understands names of contacts without any training	08:11
RST38h	Voice commands are way easier to do	08:11
ptl_demands_PR12	I know	08:11
MiXu-	If they had implemented everything, it would've taken another year or two to get N900 to shops :)	08:11
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: that's why I asked for basic s2t	08:12
DocScrutinizer	MiXu-: we all know and appreciate that	08:12
MiXu-	Just stating the obvious :)	08:12
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: that's because you sound like you're going to kill someone everytime you give an order (germans as a whole)	08:13
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crashanddie	TELEFONIERT SIE HANS, SCHNELL	08:13
DocScrutinizer	but really Nokia could port their S60 speech recog to maemo. I wouldn't even mind if it was closed source	08:13
crashanddie	and the phone replies: Ja Herr General	08:13
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: hehe	08:14
Kurppa_	It only responds if you yell loud enough.	08:14
MiXu-	I think the problem in porting is that it's all written in an overly complicated manner since they're stuck with Symbian C++.	08:14
MiXu-	So it would be a complete rewrite.	08:15
crashanddie	The algorithm is the important part	08:15
crashanddie	implementation never is	08:15
DocScrutinizer	ack	08:15
ptl_demands_PR12	it depends, the implementation might have a lot of special cases to deal with and that might be very important	08:15
ptl_demands_PR12	at least in my experience	08:15
RST38h	DocS: No such thing as basic s2t	08:15
MiXu-	I believe they're better off just using the known algorithm but writing everything else "from scratch".	08:16
RST38h	DocS: You either go the whole way, or it does not work, or you do voice control which does not do any s2t to speak of	08:16
crashanddie	if your algorithm is sound, the language doesn't matter (except for performance) -- you can throw monkeys at it and it'll work; that's what Indian programmers are for	08:16
MiXu-	lol	08:16
DocScrutinizer	RST38h: well, recognizing spoken contact surnames without training is what I call basic s2t	08:16
ptl_demands_PR12	what's the best open source speech2text engine?	08:18
DocScrutinizer	s2t with a very limited dictionary, but one that lacks phonetic transscriptions	08:18
RST38h	throwing monkeys on anything more complicated than a web app is a bad idea	08:18
ptl_demands_PR12	no	08:19
ptl_demands_PR12	throwing monkey at a web app is a bad idea	08:19
ptl_demands_PR12	you've gothe worst piece of software I ever saw	08:19
crashanddie	ptl_demands_PR12: you haven't shared my experience then ;)	08:20
ptl_demands_PR12	it was made by indians (MRO Corp.) and sold to IBM in 2005. It's called Maximo.	08:20
ptl_demands_PR12	this message from 2008 states that maemo has poorly performed speech2text --> http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124846	08:21
ptl_demands_PR12	anyone knows what this guy is talking about?	08:21
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DocScrutinizer	nope	08:24
DocScrutinizer	:-S	08:24
crashanddie	ptl_demands_PR12: sphinx is in Java, but open source	08:24
RST38h	"in Java" == "useless"	08:26
Kurppa_	It's the algorithm that counts.	08:26
crashanddie	Sometimes I wish the chinese didn't get access to the interweb	08:27
crashanddie	you wouldn't have to read crap like this: "the problem is none of HW related, it's just a unfinished work, every HW have this problem. It's not a but, just like XORG."	08:28
MiXu-	crashanddie: They don't really ;)	08:28
DocScrutinizer	It's not a but?	08:28
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DocScrutinizer	LOL	08:28
MiXu-	you put buts in buttracker	08:28
DocScrutinizer	butcracker	08:30
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ptl_demands_PR12	time for a swapoff - a; swapon -a :)	08:34
DocScrutinizer	uhuh	08:35
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MiXu-	ptl_demands_PR12: What for?	08:35
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DocScrutinizer	to sweeten the coffee	08:35
DocScrutinizer	I'm doing that 12 times a day	08:36
ptl_demands_PR12	MiXu-: too much tabs open in google chrome, chromium, firefox and akregator, I guess	08:36
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naxu	syntax sugar on java?	08:36
MiXu-	ptl: oh, I thought you meant on N900.	08:36
DocScrutinizer	each of these words is enough on its own to kickban you :-P	08:37
ptl_demands_PR12	MiXu-: no, I never needed to do that on N900...	08:37
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MiXu-	Me neither, which is why I was asking :)	08:37
DocScrutinizer	still I fail to understand how it would help to fix any problem on any platform	08:38
ptl_demands_PR12	but I guess the reason my usage was so bad was due to the flash plugin/nspluginviewer, it was quite large on xrestop	08:38
crashanddie	I just had to wait 3 days for engineering to write a tool	08:39
crashanddie	it's supposed to modify an XML file, in very complicated ways	08:39
ptl_demands_PR12	DocScrutinizer: I suspect it's memory leak or so, but I don't have the guts to use valgrind or anything else for such a large program	08:39
crashanddie	(35.5k lines in the XML file)	08:39
crashanddie	It changed 10 lines.	08:39
ptl_demands_PR12	does it use XSLT?	08:39
crashanddie	We waited 3 days for 10 lines.	08:40
crashanddie	fuck xslt, tell me what to change next time	08:40
DocScrutinizer	yep	08:40
DocScrutinizer	sed probably needs 0.005s cpu time to do that	08:40
woodong50_	a base of maemo is Linux?	08:40
DocScrutinizer	woodong50_: err, yes...	08:41
ptl_demands_PR12	yeah, and all maemo base are belong to us.	08:41
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woodong50_	oh thanks	08:41
DocScrutinizer	hrhrhrr	08:41
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ptl_demands_PR12	woodong50_: maemo is linux, not only the kernel, but the whole infrastructure - dbus, gstream, hal, X, gtk+, qt, networkmanager, upstart	08:42
crashanddie	aboyer: you're from Canada, right?	08:42
DocScrutinizer	upstart is linux? OMG	08:42
crashanddie	ptl_demands_PR12: I would've said the exact opposite, but nevermind	08:43
aboyer	crashanddie: yes... and a little surprised that you would know that...	08:43
ptl_demands_PR12	DocScrutinizer: I meant that upstart makes part of some distros' infrastructure, not that it 'belongs' to linux only. X also runs on other OSs, why the surprise?	08:43
DocScrutinizer	~traceroute 130.188.198.109	08:44
infobot	traceroute to 130.188.198.109 (130.188.198.109), 30 hops max, 38 byte packets	08:44
ptl_demands_PR12	DocScrutinizer: of course, I am not referring to the kernel here, but if I used GNU/Linux I'd only complicate things for woodong50_	08:44
ptl_demands_PR12	crashanddie: what do you mean?	08:44
woodong50_	OS of n900 vs n810 is same?	08:45
aboyer	crashanddie: why do you ask?	08:45
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ptl_demands_PR12	basically, yes, but that doesn't mean apps from N810 will work out of the box in N900, might need recompilation or even some adaptations to account for changes in the OS libraries.	08:46
crashanddie	aboyer: I just happen to know a Boyer, and he's from Canada, also your first name is Alain, which means you're either french or french canadian	08:46
ptl_demands_PR12	woodong50_: basically, yes, but that doesn't mean apps from N810 will work out of the box in N900, might need recompilation or even some adaptations to account for changes in the OS libraries.	08:46
DocScrutinizer	ptl_demands_PR12: well I thought upstart is ubuntu. And for ubuntu see http://xkcd.com/424/	08:46
ptl_demands_PR12	woodong50_: and this also means that apps written for the N900 will be even more difficult to backport to the N810, generally speaking	08:46
crashanddie	aboyer: I got lucky, nevermind	08:46
woodong50_	yes	08:46
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aboyer	crashanddie: french canadian (from ontario and not quebec...)	08:46
aboyer	you may know the difference...	08:47
ptl_demands_PR12	DocScrutinizer-8: maemo uses it and i think fedora does too, isn't it? Many tools are invented for one distribution and become popular in others.	08:47
crashanddie	aboyer: which explains why you're still awake at this time of day :)	08:47
crashanddie	aboyer: en effet, je connais la difference	08:47
DocScrutinizer	ptl_demands_PR12: just kidding, never mind	08:47
aboyer	crashanddie: well, i'm not living in canada anymore...	08:47
aboyer	it's morning for me...	08:48
ptl_demands_PR12	DocScrutinizer: sorry for not getting the joke :)	08:48
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ptl_demands_PR12	it's 3 AM here in Brazil but I sleep at day and awake at the night, mostly due to my job (although I am on vacation now)	08:49
crashanddie	aboyer: welcome to Europe	08:49
crashanddie	aboyer: what does a canadian do working for Nokia?	08:49
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Ian--	toxic48	08:49
aboyer	crashanddie: i'm not working for nokia, although i work with the n900 all day long!	08:50
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crashanddie	aboyer: oh well, you live in Finland and come to #maemo, I had a 2/3 chance you were working for Nokia :p	08:52
Surfa	not really	08:52
ptl_demands_PR12	Linus Torvalds should use a N900	08:52
crashanddie	please, no	08:52
crashanddie	The day torvalds endorses the n900, I sell mine	08:53
ptl_demands_PR12	lol	08:53
Surfa	that sound very reasonable, sell device if person x owns it	08:53
ptl_demands_PR12	It's not because of that	08:53
ptl_demands_PR12	since he's the Linux kernel manager, he'd surely steer the development towards its daily usage	08:54
ptl_demands_PR12	like, maybe we could get an open-source bme driver	08:54
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DocScrutinizer	ptl_demands_PR12: go ahead write your own bme. It's not that difficult really	08:55
DocScrutinizer	probably N900 would work and even charge flawlessly (though a lil tad slower and only from wallcharger) even without any BME at all	08:56
ptl_demands_PR12	I have some development skills, most of them in userspace. I will not spend my vacation with that, but I thanks for the advice. I've got to spend most of the time working out and nurturing my new relationship. :P	08:58
crashanddie	No, if Linus had an interest in Maemo/Meego (unlikely considering Nokia/Intel are behind it), his arrogant and sorry ass would immediately criticise all of the very good and sound decisions we have made over the years	08:58
ptl_demands_PR12	s/but I thanks/but I thank you/	08:58
infobot	ptl_demands_PR12 meant: I have some development skills, most of them in userspace. I will not spend my vacation with that, but I thank you for the advice. I've got to spend most of the time working out and nurturing my new relationship. :P	08:58
crashanddie	He wouldn't pay any attention to the "why", rather than the "how", everyone would be low-level junk to him, and the project would die in the burning flames of corporate trolls versus open source zealots	08:59
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ptl_demands_PR12	would you be in the side of the corporate trolls?	08:59
ptl_demands_PR12	I trust more in the open source zealots ;)	09:00
ptl_demands_PR12	not that I trust too much, tho	09:00
naxu	so one man could ruin the whole community and existing product?	09:00
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crashanddie	To be honest? Yeah, corporate trolls usually have more integrity and loyalty than open source zealots	09:00
crashanddie	naxu: sure, look what he did to Mandriva	09:00
slingr	yummmmmmm	09:01
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mece	mornin maemites	09:01
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crashanddie	heh, for aussies: maemomites	09:01
mece	hehee	09:02
naxu	crashanddie: I don't know what happened there.. but I would expect that Meego will be steered from Intel and Nokia	09:02
ptl_demands_PR12	naxu: yeah, into the hands of the community	09:02
naxu	and they do steering based on business	09:02
MiXu-	in my opinion "into the hands of community" fully happens only after product support ends	09:03
luke-jr	MiXu-: it never really happens ever	09:03
luke-jr	after support ends, the community is just screwed	09:04
naxu	mer ?	09:04
MiXu-	Of course community has a huge role in software development, but I wouldn't say that means the whole platform is "in the hands of the community".	09:04
DocScrutinizer	n8	09:04
crashanddie	"Liberté, égalité, fraternité. Trois mensonges dans une phrase, ça fait quand meme un peu pitié"	09:04
luke-jr	naxu: Maemo is too closed source	09:04
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Stskeeps	MiXu-: community has next to no sway over maemo, agreed	09:05
luke-jr	the community lacks the code needed to get things working	09:05
Stskeeps	meego's changing that it seems	09:05
Chiku\|dc	tout a fait	09:05
MiXu-	Stskeeps: Yes.	09:05
Stskeeps	that said, it is possible to get some things done here and there	09:05
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naxu	I don't know if it is ever possible to totally open maemo/meego. There are liability issues with gsm for example. And IP rights issues with chip manufacturers etc.	09:08
Stskeeps	i don't mind 97%, where shared platform is 100% and hardware may have bits here and there	09:09
luke-jr	naxu: GSM isn't handled by the main processor	09:09
luke-jr	naxu: as with all smartphones, GSM is handled by an independent "phone" CPU running 100% closed software	09:10
luke-jr	naxu: the closed parts tend to be things like GPS and battery charging	09:10
Stskeeps	are you pro or con that btw? if there's open interfaces to gsm chip	09:10
luke-jr	and 3D, but I don't care so much about 3D as there's no practical alternative ;(	09:10
luke-jr	Stskeeps: I consider it firmware, so I choose to tolerate it for now.	09:11
Stskeeps	fair enough	09:11
luke-jr	open firmware is still a long way off	09:11
naxu	luke-jr: battery charging might be also liability issue.. if user messes with charging algoritm and ruins/explodes battery, device manufacturer will be blaimed	09:11
luke-jr	naxu: I can mess with charging algorithm without source. Source just makes it less likely I do something wrong.	09:11
naxu	yeah, true	09:12
luke-jr	therefore, liability is greater with battery charger closed	09:12
luke-jr	they force me to work blind ;)	09:12
DocScrutinizer	naxu: nope that's nonsense	09:12
ptl_demands_PR12	naxu: anyway, doesn't a disclaimer solve the vendor liability?	09:12
naxu	well might be that algorithms are IP	09:12
Stskeeps	luke-jr: you're aware that the only way to prove that open source is better, is injuring yourself while experimenting with this stuff?	09:12
Stskeeps	:P	09:12
naxu	disclaimer is not automatic "get away from jail" card	09:13
Stskeeps	(we danes have a good expression along the lines of 'bodies needs to go on the table before anything is done')	09:13
Stskeeps	:P	09:13
luke-jr	naxu: IANAL, but I bet a disclaimer on modifying the algorithm would hold up ;p	09:13
Stskeeps	+dead	09:13
Stskeeps	:P	09:13
DocScrutinizer	*you can not change the algorithm. It's implemented in bq24150	09:14
ptl_demands_PR12	Stskeeps: are you descended from vikings?	09:14
naxu	luke-jr: it very much depends on country where "accept" button is pressed	09:14
luke-jr	"my arm got blown off by their device!" "you modified the code to do that, idiot"	09:14
luke-jr	naxu: there is no 'accept' button	09:14
luke-jr	heck, I would expect even without a disclaimer, someone who did that would have no legal basis for suing	09:14
naxu	well I guess you get the point?	09:15
Stskeeps	mcdonalds, hot coffee.	09:15
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Stskeeps	:P	09:15
luke-jr	it's like buying a gun and shooting your foot off	09:15
tekojo	luke-jr you aren't obviously american	09:15
Stskeeps	he is, though	09:15
ptl_demands_PR12	"I'll sue ya" songs from Weird Al Yankovic holds true now.	09:15
luke-jr	Stskeeps: scaldingly hot coffee; that case actually had some merit	09:15
tekojo	oh, then he isn't American	09:15
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tekojo	with a capital A	09:15
luke-jr	tekojo: I try not to be. :p	09:15
tekojo	there is still hope then :)	09:16
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ptl_demands_PR12	luke-jr: I guess if it was that hot, the coffee would evaporate instantaneously :P	09:16
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luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: why?	09:16
tekojo	but naxu is right on the disclaimers, they don't hold in many places in the world	09:16
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luke-jr	tekojo: disclaimers aside, the liability is greater with closed source since it forces modifiers to work blind	09:17
DocScrutinizer	please take notice you basically CAN NOT explode the battery by any sw tweaking. That's all BS, cargo cult coding, and urban legends	09:17
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Stskeeps	is that a bet?	09:17
ptl_demands_PR12	luke-jr: water goes only to 100 degress celsius, is not something like hot oil that can fry you alive, although it can hurt. Besides, people usually wait a few before actually drinking the coffee.	09:17
naxu	DocScrutinizer: "explode == safety vent opens" in my book	09:17
luke-jr	I wouldn't bet, but I think DocScrutinizer is right	09:17
tekojo	luke-jr the hard part of making mass market things is that the assumed buyer is not really tech savvy	09:17
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* tekojo hmmm... coffee...		09:18
luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: water can burn before it evaporates	09:18
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luke-jr	tekojo: someone non-savvy would not modify it, with or without code	09:18
ptl_demands_PR12	luke-jr: water from a little cups gets cold quite fast, and the low volume does not allow such harm.	09:18
DocScrutinizer	naxu: so I don't care what's on your book. There's a hardware chip designed to manage battery in a gentle way fully autonomously, and it's quite hard to mess with that chip in a way so battery will go any mad state	09:18
Stskeeps	luke-jr: after someone made youtube videos of how to install meego on a n900, we can no longer assume things like that	09:18
Stskeeps	:P	09:19
ptl_demands_PR12	*little cup	09:19
naxu	luke-jr: what if tech-savvy creates software that breaks things up and then non-savvy uses it without knowing what he is doing and breaks the device?	09:19
tekojo	luke-jr well, reading the talk thread on cpu clocking, there is a bunch of people who do the craziest thing just "cause it said so on the internet"	09:19
Stskeeps	luke-jr: there will always be people telling lesser knowledged (that sounds wrong) how to do advanced things	09:19
Stskeeps	:P	09:19
luke-jr	naxu: same with or without source	09:19
tekojo	luke-jr not what the courts think	09:20
ptl_demands_PR12	I told a bunch of non-tech savvy brazilian guys how to activate smartreflex in a forum	09:20
luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: 72 C water can do third degree burns in a second.	09:20
naxu	luke-jr: but from manufacturer point of view there is a difference	09:20
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luke-jr	tekojo: some ignorant court has come out and said forcing people to work blind reduces liability?	09:21
DocScrutinizer	[2010-04-08 07:56:36] <DocScrutinizer> probably N900 would work and even charge flawlessly (though a lil tad slower and only from wallcharger) even without any BME at all	09:21
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Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: on a sidenote, did you start that maemo-developers@ discussion yet?	09:21
ptl_demands_PR12	luke-jr: not a few drops because they exchange temperature with the body water, it has to have some volume.	09:21
tekojo	luke-jr essentially yes	09:22
luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: I wonder what temperature is enough to affect someone driving.	09:22
DocScrutinizer	not yet, as I don't like to start such a thread without a device to confirm the statements and assumptions I'm going to post there	09:22
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Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: fair enough - technical basis first	09:23
DocScrutinizer	yep	09:23
ptl_demands_PR12	luke-jr: if that person is driving with the cup on his/her lap, I guess the temperature is not what counts here.	09:23
* luke-jr notes if the battery really could be exploded, BME would need to be in the kernel anyhow		09:23
mece	wow.. Angstron2 looks so awesome it makes my head explode.	09:23
DocScrutinizer	imagine I yell about 'where's the sysnodes?' and actually there are some	09:23
luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: I'm thinking taking a sip	09:23
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: get shadowjk or someone to give you ssh access?	09:23
luke-jr	someone w/ a N900: killall -s STOP BME	09:24
luke-jr	:)	09:24
ptl_demands_PR12	luke-jr: while driving? isn't that forbidden? The traffic laws here in Brazil forbid such a thing...	09:24
luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: of course not	09:24
luke-jr	you can't even drink coffee while you're driving in Brazil??	09:24
ptl_demands_PR12	you can't drink anything while drivin	09:25
ptl_demands_PR12	&driving	09:25
luke-jr	I regularly use my N810 while driving	09:25
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: see? yes, BME is a mere 'convenience' thing, for faster charging and/or charging on PC usb hosts at 500, and/or info about capacity	09:25
luke-jr	and every so often eat/drink	09:25
ptl_demands_PR12	or eat anything for that matter	09:25
ptl_demands_PR12	of course, most people don't obey this law	09:25
luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: that is quite frankly insane	09:25
luke-jr	I suppose they ban phones too?	09:25
luke-jr	what do they expect people to do while driving?	09:26
ptl_demands_PR12	yes	09:26
ptl_demands_PR12	You can't use the phones while you're driving	09:26
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: that won't pan out (sigstop BME) as then the bq24150 I2C watchdog will shoot	09:26
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: the battery has a wd now?	09:26
DocScrutinizer	yep	09:26
DocScrutinizer	32s	09:26
ptl_demands_PR12	and you can't use callphones when you're in gas stations (that law was made because some high-ranked politician believed in the urban legend about cellphones blowing up gas stations with sparks)	09:27
luke-jr	so I guess we can be sure it won't explode within 32s	09:27
luke-jr	<.<	09:27
ptl_demands_PR12	s/callphones/cellphones/	09:27
infobot	ptl_demands_PR12 meant: and you can't use cellphones when you're in gas stations (that law was made because some high-ranked politician believed in the urban legend about cellphones blowing up gas stations with sparks)	09:27
luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: what do they expect people to do while driving?	09:27
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DocScrutinizer	the bq24150 can either work autonomously which it does quite flawlessly with wallcharger. Or you can control it over I2C and then you need to 'keep alive' it	09:27
ptl_demands_PR12	luke-jr: pay attention to the road. Maximum distraction would be to chat to his/her passengers and listen to the radio or CD.	09:28
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: if you don't keep-alive, does it kill the power, or just revert to default behaviour?	09:28
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ptl_demands_PR12	luke-jr: actually there are statistics that prove that this greatly affects driving, speciall cellphones	09:28
DocScrutinizer	even in I2C mode you can't do arbitrary nasties to the battery	09:28
luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: maybe if you're actively making turns and such	09:28
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: it reverts to default iirc	09:28
luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: otherwise driving is entirely passive to me, like breathing	09:28
ptl_demands_PR12	luke-jr: Yeah, but the law doesn't have any good means to discriminate that	09:29
luke-jr	I do recall last week missing my turn 2 or 3 times <.<	09:29
naxu	most drivers think they are better than "average driver" :)	09:29
ptl_demands_PR12	'you will get a fine for drinking coffe while driving, but only if you are turning or in heavy traffic'	09:29
luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: even missing turns, however, is not regulation worthy <.<	09:29
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luke-jr	especially in heavy traffic, I would be bored without something to do ...	09:30
ptl_demands_PR12	I agree, but risking lives beats boredom.	09:30
luke-jr	naxu: well, at least 49% are...	09:30
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luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: I question that lives are at risk	09:30
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luke-jr	the only close calls I've had, I wasn't doing anything other than driving boredly	09:31
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ptl_demands_PR12	but it's not only about you. The problem is that there are people - many people - who will get affected by this stuff and will risk lifes. And by the laws of statistics, you will get more people injured and dead.	09:32
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slingr	i'm so glad i got this n900	09:32
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=600466&postcount=673	09:32
slingr	i had the n810 before and had to sell it cause i was a poor ass student	09:32
luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: good point	09:32
slingr	just trying to find some fun programs to dl for it now	09:33
slingr	i really wish there was a garmin xt for this	09:33
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ptl_demands_PR12	slingr: www.sygic.com - I think it's 60 euros or so. It's a good Assisted GPS program.	09:33
luke-jr	:o	09:34
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ptl_demands_PR12	slingr: you can see videos of it running in N900 in youtube.	09:34
slingr	assisted... meaning it needs data?	09:34
slingr	oi!	09:34
ptl_demands_PR12	no, means it tells you the directions.	09:34
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slingr	nice, thanks	09:34
ptl_demands_PR12	yw	09:35
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luke-jr	ptl_demands_PR12: that site is sure slow XD	09:36
slingr	thanks ptl	09:36
korhojoa	hm. what's the fastest anyone's got it to be stable at?	09:37
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crashanddie	korhojoa: sorry?	09:37
ptl_demands_PR12	korhojoa: 900 MHz, I suppose	09:37
korhojoa	1.1 for a guy on ircnet	09:37
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korhojoa	crashanddie: the n900	09:37
crashanddie	I'm tempted to ban overclocking discussions	09:37
poutsi	hey, what (if any) version of GLX does fremantle have?	09:37
korhojoa	sorry. just asking.	09:38
luke-jr	can you overclock the GPU part?	09:38
crashanddie	korhojoa: not about you	09:38
crashanddie	korhojoa: just as a whole	09:38
crashanddie	korhojoa: I really feel like in a couple of weeks we're going to get a bunch of whiners saying that it's our fault they overclocked and it broke	09:38
ptl_demands_PR12	luke-jr: there is one of the kernels from the overclock notice that had an accelerated GPU, I think it was 433 MHz	09:39
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korhojoa	say "baww." then you stick it in the topic	09:39
Wolfie	crashanddie: i think that would be a very bad move. Isn't n900 marketed as the hackable phone?	09:39
korhojoa	i'm not clocking mine for this reason.	09:39
Wolfie	sure, the warranty is void, but see where Intel and AMD are now with their overclocking culture	09:40
crashanddie	Wolfie: I don't care what the N900 is marketed as, this is #maemo, not overclockersforum.com	09:40
slingr	this sygic looks decent	09:40
luke-jr	korhojoa: define 'stable'	09:40
korhojoa	also, a lady next to me just whipped out her n900	09:40
Wolfie	crashanddie: oh, you meant for this channel only. Nevermind, then :)	09:40
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luke-jr	korhojoa: the problem with overclocking isn't during usage, it's the shortened lifespan	09:40
crashanddie	Wolfie: yeah, lol	09:40
ptl_demands_PR12	It's just information, you should counteract with better information. Like 'overclocking WILL melt your phone, don't be deceived and you will not have an warranty for this'	09:40
korhojoa	luke-jr: well, 24+hrs without problems. no lifetime ideas yet	09:40
crashanddie	Wolfie: or at least keep it within reasonable limits of discussion, not that every noob comes here asking "OMFGZ I want to run Crysis, how do I overclock to 8GHZ??? ZOMG"	09:41
ptl_demands_PR12	lol	09:41
luke-jr	LOL	09:41
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crashanddie	korhojoa: do you feel a difference in performance/usability?	09:41
korhojoa	well. i'd like to try it for one reason: dosbox and action supercross	09:41
crashanddie	korhojoa: has the phone quality changed at all? (voice distortion?)	09:41
korhojoa	crashanddie: not my device.	09:41
ptl_demands_PR12	crashanddie: that is much much better, something that's next to impossible to disagree with. I thought you'd just prevent people from ever saying anything about overclocking. :)	09:42
Wolfie	crashanddie: heh, well, i guess you'd do good to have a short Q&A link that you can refer to which mentions the channel's policies, and the most frequently questioned answers	09:42
luke-jr	I really need to get to bed	09:42
luke-jr	night	09:42
crashanddie	Wolfie: channel policies depend on my mood, really	09:42
ptl_demands_PR12	bye luke-jr	09:42
crashanddie	and that of DocScrutinizer's	09:42
Wolfie	something in the lined "#maemo is about the platform, not about N900. For more overclocking info, goto urls suchansuch"	09:42
korhojoa	anyone know if it's a good move to run irssi locally instead of over ssh? i mean, do you save any power?	09:42
Wolfie	*lines	09:42
crashanddie	but he's lame, hardly uses the ban hammer in any kind of abusive manner	09:42
luke-jr	so in other words, policy sez not to tell crashanddie how much he sucks	09:43
luke-jr	j/k :)	09:43
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slingr	can anyone recommend any decent, non-stock repo's i should add to my n900?	09:43
crashanddie	luke-jr: pretty much	09:43
luke-jr	Wolfie: a number of people, myself included, consider #Maemo to be about the devices as well	09:43
luke-jr	Wolfie: I run Gentoo on N810. ;)	09:43
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Wolfie	luke-jr: well, that's hardly anything to do with maemo anymore, has it?	09:43
ptl_demands_PR12	slingr: extras-testing, extras-devel * WARNING WARNING, IT WILL BRICK YOUR DEVICE * and qole.org * WARNING WARNING, IT HAS ALREADY BRICKED YOUR DEVICE, BUY ANOTHER *	09:43
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korhojoa	i'm still notg as fast on the n900 as i was on the e61, find it harder to type with the greater distances.	09:44
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luke-jr	LOL ptl_demands_PR12	09:44
korhojoa	ptl_demands_PR12: :D	09:44
ptl_demands_PR12	slingr: http://n900.aguilarj.com/?page_id=369	09:44
crashanddie	korhojoa: if you screen it properly, you don't get disconnected from IRC everytime your N900 loses connectivity	09:44
slingr	thanks a bunch :D	09:44
ptl_demands_PR12	yw!	09:44
Wolfie	anyways, back to the salt mines (i.e. Eclipse)	09:44
mece	if N810 cpu is arm1136j-s, what is N900 cpu?	09:44
MiXu-	Cortex A8	09:44
crashanddie	mece: arm1226?	09:44
korhojoa	crashanddie: which one? ssh or local?	09:45
crashanddie	(1136 + 90)	09:45
luke-jr	arm1337zomg	09:45
crashanddie	korhojoa: ssh	09:45
korhojoa	for ssh it doesn't matter	09:45
mece	crashanddie, I don't know, that's why I asked..	09:45
slingr	lol	09:45
crashanddie	mece: it was a joke	09:45
mece	:)	09:45
korhojoa	ah, you meany on the remote host	09:45
mece	I realize that... now.	09:45
korhojoa	y=t	09:45
crashanddie	korhojoa: yeah, I meant your IRC connection doesn't get interrupted constantly, which can get rather annoying for other users	09:46
korhojoa	crashanddie: of course screen, i thought everyone did that	09:46
crashanddie	korhojoa: ctcp version me	09:46
ptl_demands_PR12	korhojoa: I think using irssi on the remote host is better if you have a good connection to this host	09:46
MiXu-	I agree	09:47
mece	ok, it's armv7-a apparently.	09:47
ptl_demands_PR12	korhojoa: or, if you are too keen on running irssi locally, you could maybe use a bnc on the remote host so that you can reenact your conversations	09:47
crashanddie	oy, luke-jr, didn't allow you!	09:47
korhojoa	ptl_demands_PR12: i was going to use irssi-proxy	09:47
slingr	I'm using my n900 on Wind Mobile in Canada. I'm getting decent speeds finally :D	09:47
crashanddie	ptl_demands_PR12: irssi supports bnc features	09:47
korhojoa	crashanddie: browser?	09:47
crashanddie	korhojoa: sadly, yes	09:48
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korhojoa	how does that compare to cgi:irc	09:48
crashanddie	a lot better than cgi::irc	09:48
crashanddie	not as good as mibbit	09:48
ptl_demands_PR12	korhojoa: irssi-proxy? Never used that. Is it better than BNC?	09:48
ptl_demands_PR12	I guess I'd use bnc because I sometimes want to use x-chat	09:49
korhojoa	ptl_demands_PR12: well, if you like being able to connect to a already open connection, it works nicely	09:49
korhojoa	oh, it's not like that	09:49
korhojoa	the first irssi becomes the proxy	09:49
korhojoa	you can connect with anything	09:49
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korhojoa	ie, it's irssi as a bnc	09:50
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korhojoa	i like it better than miau or psyBNC	09:50
ptl_demands_PR12	lemme see.	09:50
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korhojoa	dad said not to let strangers touch your bnc.	09:51
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EmpJoe	DCC SEND "поɦʞɔпɟ" 0 0 0	09:51
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ptl_demands_PR12	o0	09:52
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ptl_demands_PR12	what was that?	09:52
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crashanddie	that was someone trying to kill people's connections	09:52
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crashanddie	it says 'fuckyou' upside down	09:52
korhojoa	:D	09:52
crashanddie	some DLINK routers reset their connection when that string is passed through	09:52
crashanddie	expect to see a few ping timeouts in the next few minutes	09:53
korhojoa	his name was EMPjoe :D	09:53
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korhojoa	someone did that in #debian quite some time ago and like 1\5th of the channel dissappeared	09:54
MiXu-	haha	09:54
crashanddie	yeah, I used to do it in #gentoo to prove a point when people were trolling	09:55
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korhojoa	"stop fucking around, or this will happen to you."	09:56
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* ptl_demands_PR12 trying to use irssi proxy		10:01
mece	hmm	10:01
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mece	for gaming controls, szax would be pretty useful. Works as a dpad, only at a 45 degree angle.	10:02
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korhojoa	mairas: sixaxis ? or what is a szax?	10:03
korhojoa	mece: whoops. wrong nick	10:03
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mece	korhojoa, szax are s, z, a and x on your keyboard.	10:04
mece	s = up, z = down, and so on and so forth.	10:04
korhojoa	ahh	10:04
mece	for one finger controlling.	10:04
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mece	one thumb	10:04
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korhojoa	good idea	10:04
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mece	I'll test it on openarena.	10:05
mece	szax and stylus aiming is pretty accurate for gaming, but still missing the ability to fire. Hmm.	10:06
mece	stylus tap would work I suppose.	10:07
korhojoa	i suggest one finger on another key	10:07
korhojoa	right pinky on right arrow?	10:07
mece	hmm left index finger on proximity!	10:09
mece	hey that might just work	10:09
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korhojoa	ahh	10:10
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korhojoa	clever	10:10
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ptl_demands_PR12	korhojoa: what type of proxy is irssi-proxy?	10:12
korhojoa	?	10:13
korhojoa	it's just a irc server, i guess	10:13
korhojoa	you need to have a build compiled with it	10:14
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ptl_demands_PR12	IRC Server? Oh, I understood it wrong. Ok, I'll try it.	10:14
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korhojoa	well, in the same sense a bnc is a irc server	10:16
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korhojoa	seriously, fuck. this drains my battery like hell	10:18
korhojoa	listening to music and using irc over ssh	10:18
Surfa	surprise? :)	10:19
korhojoa	it's down to under 50 in a hour	10:19
korhojoa	the e61 lasted a LOT longer	10:19
Surfa	with ssh and irc?	10:19
ptl_demands_PR12	nice, it seems it worked.	10:20
Surfa	it's not surprise either	10:20
mece	so anyone have a good idea how to remove samba-common?	10:20
mece	I get post removal script error :/	10:20
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korhojoa	Surfa: what do you mean?	10:21
korhojoa	i'd have expected this to manage power better	10:21
korhojoa	ptl_demands_PR12: got it working? good for you	10:21
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Surfa	korhojoa, you probably have noticed the difference in cpu and screen size/quality.. if you do constantly something, you prevent the device from getting into sleep -> battery draining	10:24
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korhojoa	Surfa: well, yes. this thing has a larger battery though	10:25
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korhojoa	1300 mAh vs 1100	10:25
Surfa	sure, but it has been clear for some years now that battery technologies are developing slower than would be appreciated	10:26
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Surfa	other technologies are moving a lot faster nowadays.. :(	10:26
korhojoa	yup	10:26
korhojoa	should get me one of them external batteries	10:27
korhojoa	that slim nokia thing looks nice enough	10:27
ptl_demands_PR12	korhojoa: yes, it's nice, very nice.	10:29
korhojoa	you've got it?	10:30
ptl_demands_PR12	yes	10:30
korhojoa	ah, but does it work?	10:30
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crashanddie	Surfa: word	10:33
ghostcube	hmmm are the missing files for koffice anywhere available ?	10:33
ghostcube	the qt 4.6 libs	10:33
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ghostcube	and frozen bubble 2 isnt installable on meamo5	10:34
ghostcube	missing packages	10:34
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korhojoa	aww	10:34
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korhojoa	well. got to go now, battery low. need to save some for the rest of the day	10:35
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crashanddie	yo dave	10:44
crashanddie	dneary: comment va?	10:44
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ptl_demands_PR12	korhojoa: yes, I am configuring all my IRC clients to work with it now. Thanks for the tip. :)	10:46
dneary	Morning	10:46
dneary	crashanddie, Bien bien	10:46
dneary	il pleut	10:46
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ptl_demands_PR12	Hmm, Ubuntu's kvirc is broken	10:49
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mece	ok tested with openarena and yes, it definately works well.	10:52
mece	better than accelerometer controls imo.	10:52
mece	i left the jumping to accelerometer	10:52
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nidO	noobmonk3y_ about or actually working?	11:03
* noobmonk3y_ blinks........ working on a holiday, shocker.....		11:03
noobmonk3y_	just packing really :( leaving in a few hrs	11:04
nidO	1.0.0.0 is looking good	11:04
nidO	question though	11:04
noobmonk3y_	yay!	11:04
noobmonk3y_	ooo go for it	11:04
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nidO	is there any point atall in the "current cpu freq" check?	11:04
noobmonk3y_	well... no kinda... yes and no	11:04
nidO	every time I update the system info the cpu always steps up to max anyway	11:04
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noobmonk3y_	1 you can tell that it is using the cpu	11:04
nidO	so it always reads 600 :P	11:04
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noobmonk3y_	but i want to see what happens with mohammadAG etc	11:05
noobmonk3y_	as they have overclocked	11:05
noobmonk3y_	does it erad the lower or upper values there...	11:05
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noobmonk3y_	essentially version 2 needs to have polling :D	11:05
nidO	:D	11:05
noobmonk3y_	so at the moment, it can just sit there looking pretty :P	11:06
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noobmonk3y_	definitley a big old change from the first released version :D	11:06
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nidO	yeah :P	11:06
noobmonk3y_	right quick ciggy before packing continues, brb	11:06
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nidO	I hadnt actually checked out the dead pixel check while it was in devel	11:07
ptl_demands_PR12	HealthCheck is it?	11:07
nidO	was going down the list of different colour modes and at the second one while going down was thinking "I wonder if theres a way to move these buttons to check the pixe... ah!"	11:07
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noobmonk3y_	:D	11:10
noobmonk3y_	lol nidO	11:10
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noobmonk3y_	hehe was thinking of a clever way, but the button was the easiest	11:11
noobmonk3y_	should probably get that screen to autorotate	11:11
noobmonk3y_	actually probably need the whole thing to autorotate	11:11
nidO	thatd be nice, I would think recoding the ui to support portrait shouldnt be that troublesome	11:12
noobmonk3y_	at the mo it is, not go great until 1.2 i think	11:12
noobmonk3y_	there is a good GTK version but not using gtk :(	11:13
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noobmonk3y_	sorry the recoding bit should be easy, just the detection and auto part lol	11:13
* konttori would wait until pr1.2 before making the portrait support to any app (mostly as it makes things so much easier)		11:14
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m77771111	How many time nokia n810 can live with bluetooth powered on and running pidgin? (-;	11:15
sejo	hom do I get the terminal on the sdk?	11:16
noobmonk3y_	same way as normal isnt it?	11:17
sejo	noobmonk3y_: can't find the package :/	11:17
noobmonk3y_	:\| sorry havnt used the sdk in a while, hopefully someone here will answer though :D	11:18
noobmonk3y_	is there no walk through on the forums?	11:18
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Appiah	sejo: tried installing it from the app manager?	11:24
ptl_demands_PR12	sejo: fakeroot apt-get install osso-xterm	11:25
ptl_demands_PR12	for some reason the updated scratchbox environment took it off	11:25
sejo	ptl_demands_PR12: thanks!	11:25
Jaffa	Morning, all	11:25
X-Fade	Morning Jaffa.	11:26
ptl_demands_PR12	sejo: it's in the sdk repositoryu	11:26
ptl_demands_PR12	morning	11:26
ghostcube	noobmonk3y_: youre doing the healthcheck :) app	11:26
ghostcube	works fine	11:26
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ptl_demands_PR12	sejo: be prepared, because for some reason the scratchbox terminal only accepts the keypad enter	11:28
noobmonk3y_	ghostcube, yay!	11:28
noobmonk3y_	thank you :D :D	11:28
ghostcube	:) updated to 0.90 yesterday :)	11:28
noobmonk3y_	ahaaaa and v 1.0 last night :D	11:28
ghostcube	:O	11:29
ghostcube	must check	11:29
ptl_demands_PR12	sejo: for the normal enter to work, you have to highlight "Ctrl" in the lower window part, then press enter, then undo the highlight	11:29
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noobmonk3y_	it is in extras testing now :D	11:29
ghostcube	oh cool	11:29
jacekowski	my chrome build failed miserably	11:29
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jacekowski	with stupid linking errors	11:29
jacekowski	i'm making relase build this time	11:29
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sejo	thk now to get dvorak running on it	11:29
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: did you try to build it within easy-debian or the maemo environment (scratchbox)?	11:30
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: I have tried here but it was stopping on the part that it tried to import a python2.5 lib onto python 2.3	11:31
ptl_demands_PR12	forgot the lib right now	11:31
jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: i'm building it in scratchbox	11:31
jacekowski	yeah	11:31
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: how did you fix that part?	11:32
jacekowski	i had to hack python little bit	11:32
jacekowski	mv /scratchbox/tools/bin/python /scratchbox/tools/bin/python2.3	11:32
jacekowski	sudo mv /scratchbox/tools/bin/python /scratchbox/tools/bin/python2.3	11:32
jacekowski	that was one	11:32
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ptl_demands_PR12	and what about the libgl libraries that chromium tries to use? Did you substitute with libgles or tried to compile it without these libs?	11:32
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ptl_demands_PR12	hmm	11:32
jacekowski	then i had to modify couple files in /scratchbox/tools/bin/ to use /scratchbox/tools/bin/python2.3 instead of /scratchbox/tools/bin/python	11:33
jacekowski	and then i had to do similiar trick with python inside scratchbox	11:33
jacekowski	but that was just matter of changing symlink	11:33
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jacekowski	that one - /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/bin/python	11:34
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ptl_demands_PR12	I tried a different approach, I figured it was hardwired to use python 2.5 due to importing that 2.5-only library, so I tried to override python 2.3 with python 2.5	11:34
jacekowski	lrwxrwxrwx 1 maemo maemo 18 2010-04-06 16:49 /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/bin/python -> /usr/bin/python2.5	11:34
jacekowski	you have to get rid of that python in /scratchbox/tools/bin/ otherwise it will fail	11:34
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ptl_demands_PR12	ok...	11:34
jacekowski	because it's earlier in $PATH	11:35
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noobmonk3y_	right! time for breakfast then a 5 hour drive!!! :D	11:35
jacekowski	and i don't want to modify $PATH	11:35
noobmonk3y_	See ya'll laters!	11:35
ptl_demands_PR12	I tried to override by adding other paths to the start of the $PATH variable	11:35
ptl_demands_PR12	good trip, nomis	11:35
ptl_demands_PR12	*noobmonk3y	11:35
noobmonk3y_	lols	11:36
noobmonk3y_	chars!	11:36
sejo	someone knows whether I can get the dvorak layout working on the n900	11:36
ptl_demands_PR12	definitely.	11:36
ptl_demands_PR12	after all, it uses standard X.	11:36
ptl_demands_PR12	just remap and you'll be set.	11:36
sejo	someone knows whether I can get the dvorak layout working on the sdk? Can't seem to find it on google	11:37
ptl_demands_PR12	never tried it, I don't know if Xephyr accepts remapping the keys within itself	11:38
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ptl_demands_PR12	but I changed my N900 keybindings to have a few portuguese characters. Changing to dvorak would just involve more time.	11:39
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jacekowski	just change keymap	11:40
jacekowski	in whole system	11:40
sejo	jacekowski: ok thx!	11:40
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sejo	jacekowski: sorry but cannot find anywhere how to do that with the sdk, got a hint?	11:51
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SpeedEvil	Can anyone point me to how to overclock - well - underclock - the n900 - how do I set the kernel command line? I tried searching TMO, but my head exploded.	11:54
jacekowski	sejo: same as with normal linux disto	11:55
jacekowski	distro*	11:55
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jacekowski	SpeedEvil: you want to have it permanently running at low frequency?	11:56
sejo	jacekowski: /62	11:56
sejo	nvm	11:56
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: no - I want the lower frequency available for scaling.	11:56
SpeedEvil	Also - I want to try several freqs and benchmarks for current use with smartreflex on and off - but that's a seperate issue	11:57
jacekowski	i doubt it's possible	11:57
SpeedEvil	what's possible?	11:57
jacekowski	lower frequency	11:57
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nidO	ofc it is, most of the overclocking changes also lower the min freq to 125	11:59
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nidO	problem is, not all devices are stable that low	11:59
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mece	if I do opengl in Qt does that automagically work with gles?	11:59
mece	hm	11:59
jacekowski	/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq	12:00
jacekowski	/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_min_freq	12:00
MiXu-	Isn't the minimum frequency 125MHz to begin with? :o	12:00
cehteh	no 250 is	12:00
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: yes - that only exposes frequencies that are allowed.	12:00
MiXu-	Oh, ok	12:00
cehteh	125 is configured but the production units kernels dont allow that	12:01
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: note the absence of 125, 900, and 1700MHz	12:01
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DocScrutinizer	moroning	12:02
cehteh	:)	12:03
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* DocScrutinizer yawns		12:08
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jacekowski	SpeedEvil: ~/maemo/kernel-source/drivers/cpufreq	12:08
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jacekowski	N900 is a rx51?	12:21
jacekowski	or rx71?	12:21
MiXu-	rx51	12:21
nidO	51	12:21
jacekowski	mhm	12:22
jacekowski	so what is it that rx71?	12:22
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nidO	where?	12:22
MiXu-	something unreleased	12:22
jacekowski	in kernel sources	12:22
jacekowski	* linux/arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-rx71.c * * Copyright (C) 2007 Nokia	12:23
jacekowski	quite old as well	12:23
MiXu-	There's talk about RX-71 in tmo	12:24
MiXu-	too bad it's down	12:24
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nidO	its not	12:24
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nidO	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27262	12:24
MiXu-	It is for me	12:24
nidO	old thread discussing rx71	12:24
nidO	doesnt really seem to go anywhere tho	12:24
MiXu-	tmo hasn't worked for me in weeks	12:24
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jacekowski	SpeedEvil: it looks like it's impossible to change that frequency easily	12:28
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: you would have to recompile kernel	12:29
ptl_demands_PR12	:P°	12:30
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: ~/maemo/kernel-source/arch/arm/mach-omap2/omap3-opp.h	12:30
jacekowski	line 29	12:30
jacekowski	well, it starts in line 24	12:30
jacekowski	there is whole struct defining all accepted cpu speeds	12:31
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ptl_demands_PR12	does it have 1700? :P	12:32
jacekowski	no	12:32
jacekowski	there is 125 in one of #define	12:33
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jacekowski	but it looks like it's doing some sort of smooth scaling	12:34
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jacekowski	i wouldn't overclock it without having temperature sensor	12:37
ptl_demands_PR12	does it have? I have seen some N900 screenshot with temperature	12:37
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jacekowski	there is temperature sensor in cpu	12:39
Edheldil	does it really pay off to gain some % of speed with a vastly increased risk of overheating the phone or battery?	12:39
jacekowski	that theoreticly should cut off clock to cpu if it gets too warm	12:39
ptl_demands_PR12	Edheldil: The answer is there's no answer to that question, at least not an agreeable answer	12:40
ptl_demands_PR12	or, the answer is a flamewar.	12:41
jacekowski	Edheldil: have you seen datasheet for cpu inside of n900	12:41
Edheldil	nope	12:41
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ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: is it thermically isolated?	12:42
ptl_demands_PR12	apart from temperature, there is the problem of electron migration, people told me here.	12:42
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hrw	morning	12:42
marmoute	electromigration.	12:43
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jacekowski	mhm	12:44
Edheldil	would not a better option be underclocking to prolong battery life? :)	12:45
jacekowski	i'm trying to find that datasheet	12:45
jacekowski	and i can't find it now	12:45
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nidO	Edheldil: some people have reported success in underclocking the min freq to 125 and getting better battery life when idle, but some devices also become unstable with a min freq that low	12:46
SpeedEvil	Underclocking is not always directly relevant to battery life.	12:47
nidO	additionally, some people are reporting actually getting slightly better battery life by overclocking the max freq as well, if the phone's just used occasionally as processes can race back to idle more quickly	12:48
SpeedEvil	You really, really want it to be always idle	12:48
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nidO	yeah I think theres some crosstalking there, I assume Edheldil's referring to lowering the min freq, not underclocking the max freq	12:48
Edheldil	yep	12:49
nidO	could be wrong tho :)	12:49
Edheldil	thanks for the info	12:49
ptl_demands_PR12	first link of electromigration (on ars technica) says that electromigration for overclocking is something of a myth in P2's and it is dependent of temperature	12:49
nidO	in p2's?	12:49
Raafat	Hi, all I have submitted a proposal for Pocket Jeeves project in GSOC, I will be pleased if you provide me with your feedback(s) on the proposal, here you are the link for it http://www.4shared.com/file/259640743/fc9804c7/GSOC_Proposal.html	12:49
Edheldil	temperature being dependent on cfrequency :-P	12:49
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jacekowski	i found it	12:50
jacekowski	http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3530.pdf	12:50
ptl_demands_PR12	link is http://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Farstechnica.com%2Fcpu%2Foc-myths-2.html&ei=zKW9S_KRGIP8NfH7ldMH&usg=AFQjCNERFeh7EMUnryMdoE8ASio27FPgnA&sig2=ui5sPFAUoQo2LN1Y9Os12w	12:50
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: you found what?	12:51
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jacekowski	datasheet	12:51
ptl_demands_PR12	N900's datasheet	12:51
ptl_demands_PR12	N900's CPU	12:51
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: yes.	12:51
jacekowski	ti website just makes me wanna kill myself	12:52
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jacekowski	page 144	12:54
jacekowski	PLL can only generate up to 720MHz	12:54
jacekowski	(1) OPP6 frequency range is only supported on high-speed grade OMAP3530/25 devices.	12:54
MiXu-	jacekowski: only supported on high-speed grade OMAP3530/25 devices	12:54
jacekowski	(2) Cannot boot in OPP1. If OPP1 is desired, boot in higher OPP then switch to OPP1.	12:54
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: that's assuming you use recommended PLL settings.	12:55
nidO	im having a curry tonight with a guy that works at arm, be interesting to find out if he can get hold of any internal testing info on the chip	12:55
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: the PLL settings are typically not enforced - there is no '125MHz' PLL setting - you setup the frac-n synth to produce the correct output frequency.	12:55
SpeedEvil	nidO: Interesting.	12:55
jacekowski	it's just about their definition of supported	12:55
lcuk2	nidO, you having chips with your curry? :D	12:55
SpeedEvil	nidO: what sort of curry.	12:55
nidO	ill probably be going for a lamb balti!	12:55
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SpeedEvil	Good choice.	12:55
nidO	and lcuk2, ew no.	12:55
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: it's DPLL	12:56
SpeedEvil	err yes - been reading too much on frac-n synths	12:56
SpeedEvil	which are cool, but generally overkill for clock gen	12:56
jacekowski	it might just refuse to accept any unsupproted freq	12:56
SpeedEvil	It doesn't.	12:57
SpeedEvil	It just tries to lock them	12:57
SpeedEvil	At least based on experience of several processors	12:57
SpeedEvil	Basically as the datasheet is - at least somewhat - written after the silicon is produced.	12:57
SpeedEvil	So they don't know the best/stablest settings for the pll till they make one	12:58
SpeedEvil	Also interlocks for aceptable freqs would cost area	12:58
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jacekowski	just stick little bit of microcode on it	12:59
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SpeedEvil	There is lottle point trying to user-proof micros, it just confuses people.	13:01
jacekowski	little*	13:02
jacekowski	http://bunnitude.com/misc/files/omap/pdf/sprufa5.pdf	13:02
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ptl_demands_PR12	what is this pdf, jacekowski?	13:04
jacekowski	It internally generates two main clocks according to the following equations:	13:04
jacekowski	· CLKOUTX2 = (Fref x 2 x M) / (N+1)	13:04
jacekowski	that pd	13:05
jacekowski	f	13:05
jacekowski	OMAP35xx Applications Processor	13:05
jacekowski	Power, Reset, and Clock Management	13:05
jacekowski	only 400 pages	13:05
Noobmonk3y	sounds geeky to me :)	13:05
timeless_mbp	anyone here happen to use Sampo?	13:05
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ptl_demands_PR12	~sampo	13:08
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MiXu-	I do, but it's probably not the 'sampo' that you mean.	13:09
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ptl_demands_PR12	In Finnish mythology, the Sampo was a magical artifact of indeterminate type constructed by Ilmarinen that brought good fortune to its holder	13:10
MiXu-	It's also a man's name.	13:10
MiXu-	...and a bank	13:10
ptl_demands_PR12	and an insurance company	13:10
MiXu-	and whatnot	13:10
MiXu-	ptl_demands_PR12: Actually it's not an insurance company anymore afaik	13:11
ptl_demands_PR12	ok	13:11
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timeless_mbp	using a man's name sounds crude	13:12
timeless_mbp	assume i'm unfortunate enough to need to use the bank	13:12
shvedsky_	MiXu-: so the insurance company that bears a name that brings fortune went bankrupt?	13:12
timeless_mbp	technically afaiu, the banking bit got spun off from the other interests	13:13
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MiXu-	shvedsky_: The insurances are now under the brands "If" and "Mandatum Life"	13:13
timeless_mbp	right… so...	13:13
timeless_mbp	is the bank name 'Sampo Bank', 'SAMPO PANKKI', or '00075 SAMPO PANKKI'?	13:13
MiXu-	"Sampo pankki" yes	13:13
MiXu-	www.sampopankki.fi	13:14
timeless_mbp	any idea what the heck the 00075 thing is?	13:14
naxu	post number?	13:14
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timeless_mbp	is that roughly "we're so big, we have our own zip code" ?	13:14
MiXu-	many organizations have their own zip code	13:14
MiXu-	Well not many, but some. :)	13:15
timeless_mbp	MiXu-: less than 100? :)	13:16
timeless_mbp	since 00100 is a human zip code	13:16
MiXu-	timeless_mbp: probably yes	13:16
timeless_mbp	(mine in fact)	13:16
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timeless_mbp	hi konttori	13:16
timeless_mbp	i'm supposed to bug you about something	13:17
timeless_mbp	but first i need to do banking	13:17
timeless_mbp	and then since there aren't many things certain in life, i need to do taxes...	13:17
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Stskeeps	i hope your tax forms comes in english versions too :P	13:17
Stskeeps	cos they don't here	13:17
timeless_mbp	oh, this is US taxes	13:17
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: well to me that sounds like 125MHz is supported, just you can't boot on that	13:18
* timeless_mbp thinks they come in Spanish, French, probably Chinese, Japanese and Korean		13:18
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MiXu-	I'd hope that 600MHz is used on bootup.	13:18
MiXu-	Makes things much faster	13:19
DocScrutinizer	MiXu-: WTF? nope	13:19
MiXu-	Why not?	13:19
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DocScrutinizer	no system ever boots up in a high clock rate. You always set higher clock during boot	13:19
DocScrutinizer	at least that's sane common sense best practice for all I've learnt so far	13:20
konttori	timeless_mbp: hi	13:20
timeless_mbp	so, to the finns here	13:20
timeless_mbp	how do you burn money you aren't using?	13:20
timeless_mbp	my 'savings' account is earning me 0.04 %	13:21
timeless_mbp	or roughly "absolutely nothing"	13:21
MiXu-	Nice ;)	13:21
MiXu-	Minus taxes	13:21
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timeless_mbp	oh yes	13:21
kirma	you can drink your savings	13:21
timeless_mbp	the taxes part is really cool	13:21
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timeless_mbp	one year i think i got ~1 EUR in interest	13:21
MiXu-	Doc: Makes sense. But I was referring to the clock that's used during OS boot. I don't know anything about the low level stuff.	13:22
timeless_mbp	but the taxes were something like 30EURCent	13:22
X-Fade	timeless_mbp: They invest it in hard liquor.	13:22
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timeless_mbp	X-Fade: yeah yeah	13:22
timeless_mbp	but if i don't drink, and want something harder	13:22
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MiXu-	timeless_mbp: Yeah, it's 28% tax on interest	13:22
timeless_mbp	with preferably 0.1% interest	13:22
DocScrutinizer	MiXu-: that of course should use highest allowable clockrate	13:22
timeless_mbp	how would i manage that?	13:22
konttori	I put my spare to funds	13:22
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konttori	insurance stock funds mostly	13:23
timeless_mbp	konttori: "how"?	13:23
timeless_mbp	and does it give you 0.08% or 0.1 %? :)	13:23
timeless_mbp	and is it taxed at 60% or 90%? :)	13:23
MiXu-	timeless_mbp: I get something like 0,5% at the moment	13:23
konttori	go to bank and setup stock insurance. then agree that you are allowed to transfer funds to that from your usual accounts whenever you please and without comission.	13:23
DocScrutinizer	konttori: Hi! any chance you get a simple value number from hw guys at nokia for us?	13:24
timeless_mbp	"Real-time OMX" ?	13:24
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MiXu-	For that 0,5% I need have a savings account with a savings plan. 20e/month currently. :D	13:24
konttori	the 'winning' is taxed at 28%	13:24
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timeless_mbp	MiXu-: wait is that 0.20 EUR or 20.00 EUR?	13:25
konttori	I'm getting some tens of percents annually, but then again, I'm investing to eastern markets mostly.	13:25
* timeless_mbp hates euro currency notation		13:25
konttori	although, I do have quite global spread	13:25
MiXu-	timeless_mbp: 20.00EUR twenty.	13:25
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timeless_mbp	MiXu-: are you getting more than that in interest each month?	13:25
timeless_mbp	(after taxes)	13:26
MiXu-	timeless_mbp: No no no. I put in 20 euros a month. It's my money. I just need to "keep saving" in order to get that interest.	13:26
MiXu-	Even though I can take the money out whenever I want and as often as I want.	13:26
timeless_mbp	oh, it isn't a fee?	13:26
MiXu-	No. I'm not charged for using the account.	13:27
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konttori	DocScrutinizer: value, as in what freq to use? Well, I'm on daddy month atm, so cannot ask. I do remember that we were talking about checking possibility to drop the lowest clockrate to 125 for pr1.3, but that was uncertain still at that time.	13:27
timeless_mbp	MiXu-: so. I currently have a "Resources Account"	13:27
timeless_mbp	which gives me 0.04 %	13:27
DocScrutinizer	konttori: We would need to know the milliOhms of R1129, R1130, R1140	13:27
timeless_mbp	there's a "Savings" account which claims to offer 0.2% to 2.00%	13:28
DocScrutinizer	konttori: do you think we could get those values from Nokia EE ?	13:28
konttori	sorry, can't dig those out from my home.	13:28
MiXu-	timeless_mbp: But if you're looking for something to put amounts with at least four figures, I'd go with some sort of funds, like konttori said.	13:28
DocScrutinizer	konttori: aah, baby vacation still	13:28
timeless_mbp	MiXu-: yeah, we're talking medium 4 figures	13:28
crashanddie	eh?	13:28
crashanddie	4 figures in a fund?	13:28
crashanddie	Guys, wtf	13:28
MiXu-	Hm?	13:28
crashanddie	4 to 5 figures should be what you have in your savings account	13:29
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: the euro isn't doing well against the usd	13:29
konttori	DocScrutinizer: I would write an email to the devs list.	13:29
MiXu-	I have 208 euros on my savings account at the moment ;)	13:29
timeless_mbp	otherwise i'd send it to the US and pull it into paypal and get better interest	13:29
timeless_mbp	> Savings Account	13:30
timeless_mbp	...	13:30
timeless_mbp	> The account is not suitable for everyday banking because of it's transaction fees.	13:30
crashanddie	nice grammar mistake	13:30
timeless_mbp	The account is not suitable for native speakers because the idiots writing the text can't spell "its" correctly	13:30
crashanddie	I don't understand why banks still bother differentiating between savings and current accounts	13:31
crashanddie	Historically speaking, the high transaction fees existed because the money was physically sent elsewhere, but now it's all digital	13:32
DocScrutinizer	konttori: thanks :-)	13:32
nidO	because they dont want to pay lots of interest to everyone's normal monthly money in-out	13:32
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: ^^^	13:32
crashanddie	nidO: nha, bollocks	13:32
timeless_mbp	http://pastebin.mozilla.org/713723	13:32
nidO	oh, its bollocks? you think banks like paying interest?	13:32
timeless_mbp	the only error camino found in the actual agreement is fulfilment	13:32
MiXu-	The money that's on people's normal accounts is basically a free loan for banks	13:33
crashanddie	nidO: on my current account I have 3% interest for everything above 1000 gbp	13:33
nidO	exactly.	13:33
nidO	yes, and only above 1000 gbp, and bugger all banks offer that	13:33
timeless_mbp	nidO: this account won't give me more than 2% !	13:33
crashanddie	nidO: it used to be from 0, but well, banks getting squashed and all... Still, doesn't change much	13:33
nidO	banks dont want to pay interest unless they have to, so most just stick with the status quo of paying bugger all / nothing to current accounts, so that they have people's £700-2000 wages a month as a free loan to them	13:34
crashanddie	Except it's pretty low-risk for customers	13:34
crashanddie	When you're young, so 20-30, basically every spare penny should go into high-risk, high-payout medium-length investments	13:37
crashanddie	this can be a friend's company, a deal from your bank, or stock	13:37
MiXu-	My next investment will be an apartment. Money well spent.	13:38
timeless_mbp	so… a money market?	13:38
nidO	my last investment was an apartment	13:38
nidO	my bank account doesnt like me for it :(	13:38
timeless_mbp	emerging equity market?	13:38
timeless_mbp	nidO: eh, why?	13:38
timeless_mbp	MiXu-: a second one?	13:38
MiXu-	timeless_mbp: A first one.	13:39
nidO	because its now much sadder than it was before i bought it :P	13:39
MiXu-	I haven't even graduated yet ;)	13:39
timeless_mbp	MiXu-: i've already done that part	13:39
timeless_mbp	i'm now at the next stage	13:39
MiXu-	ah, I see	13:39
timeless_mbp	hence my need to burn money faster	13:39
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* GAN900 chuckles at luke-jr's ideas about traffic safety.		13:40
timeless_mbp	in the past, i would give away ~6kEUR to one random person each year	13:40
nidO	a 2nd apartment then!	13:40
MiXu-	I'd go with low-risk funds	13:40
_llll_	invest in your pension	13:40
timeless_mbp	_llll_: in finland?	13:40
timeless_mbp	do i even have a pension?	13:40
_llll_	oh, foreign :p	13:40
nidO	then setup a pension and invest in it?	13:41
_llll_	if you dont have a pension then getting one is proabbly the best thing you could do	13:41
timeless_mbp	nidO: in EUR or USD?	13:41
_llll_	YUAN	13:41
lcuk2	timeless would rather sip bacardi on the tropical finnish beaches	13:41
nidO	I dont have a private pension yet :<	13:41
timeless_mbp	because atm the EUR is doing badly against the USD	13:41
timeless_mbp	which means now is a bad time for me to buy a USD backed pension	13:41
_llll_	well a pension is presmably a long-term investment	13:42
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_llll_	so what they are doing now is irrelevant	13:42
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_llll_	unless you plan on retireing in the next 5 years	13:42
_llll_	in which case, go for the bacardi option	13:42
nidO	absolutely avoid land banks though	13:42
MiXu-	It's not irrelevant. Because you will likely lose money now, if you buy dollars with euros.	13:43
naxu	tropic in Finland needs it more climate change than is currently visible	13:43
naxu	bit more	13:43
GAN900	1.2GHz? These people are insane.	13:43
timeless_mbp	since i can sit on my EUR now and buy USD later, there's no reason for me to buy USD now	13:44
lcuk2	you just have to drive device at 88mph	13:44
timeless_mbp	konttori: what's the smallest unit you'd buy in a fund?	13:44
_llll_	you could also invest in gold or even wine	13:44
timeless_mbp	500EUR?	13:44
nidO	gold is a reasonable investment, kinda missed the boat for making a killing out of it tho	13:44
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* timeless_mbp is trying to figure out how T and K funds differ in Sampo's ui		13:45
timeless_mbp	javascript:papirdetaljer('FI0008803986%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20AK%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FI0008803986') EUR 17.55742 07.04.2010 0.00 0.00 %	13:45
timeless_mbp	javascript:papirdetaljer('FI0008803978%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20AK%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FI0008803978') EUR 29.36939 07.04.2010 0.00 0.00 %	13:46
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timeless_mbp	javascript:papirdetaljer('FI0008810981%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20AK%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FI0008810981') EUR 1.11622 07.04.2010 0.00 0.00 %	13:46
timeless_mbp	javascript:papirdetaljer('FI0008810999%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20AK%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20FI0008810999') EUR 1.28649 07.04.2010 0.00 0.00 %	13:46
timeless_mbp	anyone have any idea what those T and Ks are?	13:46
SpeedEvil	?	13:47
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konttori	timeless_mbp: well, I have automated couple huldred per month + I sometimes add some thousands on top of that, but I think the smallest possible for those savings / insurance funds was 50 euros.	13:47
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timeless_mbp	i can't even figure out how to create an account	13:47
timeless_mbp	Custody accounts	13:48
timeless_mbp	No custody account for this agreement	13:48
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: T and K?	13:48
timeless_mbp	crashanddie: see the 4 listed lines above	13:48
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: I don't see any Ts or Ks	13:48
timeless_mbp	DI India [TK] ...	13:49
konttori	timeless_mbp: go to a bank and ask for advise	13:49
timeless_mbp	arg, it's too close to 2pm	13:49
crashanddie	timeless_mbp: I just see a bunch of javascript	13:49
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konttori	but dont use savings accounts	13:49
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timeless_mbp	konttori: great	13:49
* konttori goes for a walk with Emilia		13:49
timeless_mbp	so i just wasted time creating a useless account and burning account transfers?	13:50
* timeless_mbp hates this stuff		13:50
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mece	WOOOW! http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcv6dv_pixels-by-patrick-jean_creation that video made my day!	13:59
* ptl_demands_PR12 loading video		14:00
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Appiah	anyway to send files via bluetooth on the n900? only place I can find send with bluetooth is if I'm looking at pictures	14:03
jacekowski	hehehhehehehe	14:03
ptl_demands_PR12	use petrovich	14:03
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nidO	either install petrovich, or wait for pr1.2	14:03
jacekowski	http://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=116	14:03
jacekowski	take look	14:03
jacekowski	google chrome running on N900	14:04
ptl_demands_PR12	or wait for PR 1.2	14:04
jacekowski	native build	14:04
ptl_demands_PR12	wow	14:04
jacekowski	not using any gentoo/debian chroots	14:04
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: have the .deb?	14:04
jacekowski	not yet	14:04
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MohammadAG	jacekowski, thumbs up :)	14:04
jacekowski	i have .tar.gz	14:04
ptl_demands_PR12	congrats	14:04
MohammadAG	jacekowski, would package it for you if you want	14:04
nidO	would not say no to a package of that	14:04
jacekowski	sure	14:04
nidO	hows it compare to microb performance wise?	14:05
* MohammadAG is currently compiling gparted - entering a dependency loop		14:05
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jacekowski	nidO: don't know yet	14:05
MohammadAG	jacekowski, got any links to the tar.gz? If you don't mind	14:06
hrw	MohammadAG: deploop with gparted?	14:06
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MohammadAG	hrw, well atm, configure: error: Your version of libreadline is too old to be used.	14:07
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ptl_demands_PR12	is there a guide to solve the dependencies and issues with scratchbox compiling? I am fighting with debhelper now, by trying to compile libwww-curl-perl.	14:07
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MohammadAG	and for some reason I doubt that's upgradable on the N900	14:07
MohammadAG	at least not without breaking a dependency or two	14:07
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hrw	it is not dep loop	14:08
ptl_demands_PR12	Yeah, and I can't compile the most recent debhelper because no matter what I do to override PERL5LIB, it always tries to use devkit's paths.	14:08
MohammadAG	gparted > libparted > libreadline > still to be found....	14:08
crashanddie	one of my favourite time lapse videos: http://vimeo.com/8525356	14:08
jacekowski	MohammadAG: i'm making .deb	14:09
crashanddie	shame the sound is gone	14:09
MohammadAG	jacekowski, cool :)	14:09
jacekowski	i just need to read up how to do it for maemo	14:09
jacekowski	stuff should go to /opt?	14:09
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jacekowski	and i'm not sure what to do with one required library	14:09
jacekowski	which isn't present	14:09
MohammadAG	jacekowski, package the library	14:09
MohammadAG	then package chrome	14:10
MohammadAG	don't worry about /opt since it's a development build	14:10
jacekowski	library goes to /opt as well?	14:10
jacekowski	it won't fit on /	14:10
MohammadAG	most of the libraries don't work in /opt but you can try	14:10
MohammadAG	how big is it?	14:10
jacekowski	it's almost 50M after unpacking	14:10
MohammadAG	hmm, try moving it into /opt then	14:10
MohammadAG	maemo-optify is the easiest way	14:10
MohammadAG	(maemo-optify-deb if you have a deb file ready)	14:11
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ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: you can use maemo-optify-deb after packaging	14:13
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lardman	morning	14:14
ptl_demands_PR12	MohammadAG: do you have any idea how can I compile the most recent debhelper to proceed with my libwww-curl-perl compilation?	14:14
MohammadAG	ptl_demands_PR12, most of the time it doesn't work with libraries	14:14
ptl_demands_PR12	MohammadAG: I didn't know that...	14:14
MohammadAG	download the .tar.gz, unpack and compile	14:14
MohammadAG	(I make it sound too easy don't I :P)	14:15
ptl_demands_PR12	tried with the source deb package	14:15
MohammadAG	don't use debs	14:15
MohammadAG	always compile the source	14:15
ptl_demands_PR12	yeah, but I entered the source tree and tried dpkg-buildpackage	14:15
ptl_demands_PR12	that should work, shouldn't it?	14:15
_llll_	what, why not use the deb?	14:15
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ptl_demands_PR12	I have all build dependencies	14:15
mece	crashanddie, that video makes the digger look really cute somehow.	14:15
MohammadAG	Joikuspt updated	14:15
_llll_	debuild is a good command	14:15
lardman	is TMO down?	14:15
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MohammadAG	_llll_, if it's a debian build you'll most likely break dependencies	14:16
crashanddie	mece: yeah, it seems extremely gentle... reminds me of dog in Half Life 2	14:16
lardman	hmm, I appear to have lost my admin privs too, ah well	14:16
mece	nope	14:16
mece	err..	14:16
MohammadAG	(which would break mp-fremantle-generic-pr on the N900 - breaking SSU)	14:16
_llll_	break dependencies?	14:16
mece	lardman, no, it's not down	14:16
nidO	its not right now	14:16
lardman	ah, must be my connection then	14:16
lardman	working again now, thanks	14:16
nidO	but it's been yoyoing up and down for the past hour or two	14:17
MohammadAG	_llll_, if it uses a debian dependency (not one build for maemo), the dependency will be upgraded, breaking SSU	14:17
MohammadAG	if you don't mind breaking SSU, go ahead	14:17
MohammadAG	if you compiled the deb, no problem in using it	14:17
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_llll_	not following... i thought he wanted to build the debhelper package	14:17
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MohammadAG	ptl_demands_PR12, did you get the deb from the debian repositories or did you build it?	14:18
DocScrutinizer	WTF? 50MB lib?! libboost or what?	14:19
MohammadAG	lol	14:19
crashanddie	timeless: you still work for Nokia?	14:19
* DocScrutinizer always thought optification is done in a postinstall script		14:19
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ptl_demands_PR12	MohammadAG: from the ubuntu repositories, apt-get source	14:20
Noobmonk3y	is tmo down again? :(	14:20
crashanddie	A very good read, send this to the Nokia UI crew too: http://fontfeed.com/archives/ipad-typography/	14:20
crashanddie	timeless: ^	14:20
nidO	on holiday 2 hours and on your phone + irc already Noobmonk3y?	14:20
DocScrutinizer	I recommend to rename libboost to libbust	14:20
nidO	also, yes	14:20
MohammadAG	ptl_demands_PR12, then you built the deb? if so, there's no problem when using it	14:20
Noobmonk3y	meh	14:20
* timeless looks up		14:21
Noobmonk3y	lol nidO waiting for a few peeps b4 we leave	14:21
mece	http://www.tietokone.fi/uutiset/nokia_n900_paasee_kovaan_kayttoon	14:21
timeless	sp...	14:21
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MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, update joikuspot	14:21
ptl_demands_PR12	MohammadAG: no, I couldn't, because when running the debhelper setup, it stops because it seems to use old libraries from the current debhelper	14:21
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mece	Noobmonk3y, no, it's just you.	14:21
Noobmonk3y	joiku update today?	14:21
timeless	sampo tells me theykhave a savings account that offers 1.5pct instead of 0.2pct	14:21
DocScrutinizer	and why would a properly linked lib in opt/ not work?	14:21
Noobmonk3y	just on 3g atm	14:21
timeless	they just sell it "under the table"	14:21
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MohammadAG	ptl_demands_PR12, well try using the deb, although I doubt it'll work	14:22
timeless	i'm so glad to discover i bank with a dishonest bank	14:22
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ptl_demands_PR12	MohammadAG: http://pastebin.com/e1fXx3Va	14:22
ptl_demands_PR12	using the deb? which deb?	14:22
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mece	timeless, which bank is that?	14:22
timeless	sampopankki	14:22
crashanddie	sounds dodgy	14:23
Noobmonk3y	meh arn't all banks useless?	14:23
mece	timeless, ok, not mine then :) Although there's no doubt mine is dishonest too.	14:23
crashanddie	I'm very happy with my bank :)	14:23
crashanddie	There's two kinds of people	14:23
crashanddie	Those who have bank/money problems	14:23
mece	I'm going to a childrens playground with FC Inter, sponsored by my bank today :D	14:23
mece	go figure	14:23
crashanddie	And those who have tax problems.	14:23
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DocScrutinizer	I thought there are 10 kinds of people	14:23
DocScrutinizer	the ones that can read binary, and those who cant	14:24
nidO	there are if you're trying to be funny a decade ago	14:24
crashanddie	there were**	14:24
mece	I thought it was 2 kinds: "Idiots and me"	14:24
Noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer, that was poor........	14:25
crashanddie	timeless: PM	14:25
DocScrutinizer	you didn't like it? so sorry	14:25
Noobmonk3y	:)	14:25
ShadowJK	Stskeeps, luke-jr, DocScrutinizer: I think on N8x0 you can actually do pretty nasty things to the battery. When digging mailing lists I came across almost no info, except someone found the register by which to set the proportion of on/off on the charging PWM, which is basically all the info you need to unleash the device's full go-boom potential... On N900 there is an actual, real, and sensible charger, that apart from implementing the proper charging alg	14:25
ShadowJK	orithm itself, also has overcurrent, overvoltage and bad input voltage protection/rejection.. so I don't see either how you'd make it do anything stupid	14:26
ptl_demands_PR12	there are 2 kinds of people, people who classify people as two kinds and people who do not (this is from the Murphy's Law book)	14:26
mece	aaaggaa	14:26
mece	er	14:26
mece	aahaha I means	14:26
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mece	now itmo is down apparently.	14:26
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: thought so	14:26
mece	tmo	14:26
Surfa	ptl_demands_PR12, what if someone classifies people on one day and doesn't on the next?	14:26
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: thanks. My words though	14:26
Surfa	which group does he belon to?	14:27
Surfa	+g	14:27
nidO	Surfa: people can change.	14:27
Surfa	but on the whole, which group is correct for him?	14:27
ptl_demands_PR12	Surfa: it just change groups by time, no big deal	14:27
mece	jacekowski, did you modify anything to build chrome?	14:27
crashanddie	ptl_demands_PR12: I think you'll find murphy was of the people with tax issues...	14:27
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crashanddie	and btw, you can see that category very easily in here	14:28
crashanddie	there's people with macs	14:28
Surfa	ptl_demands_PR12, well, some logical issues there.. but never mind	14:28
t-tan	ptl_demands_PR12: use the debhelper7 package	14:28
crashanddie	and then there's the tightasses that went for "I'm a PC"	14:28
ShadowJK	So the reason bme is closed right now, for N900, I could guess from the bme charge state reporting and from the leaked schematics... The charge reporting is too different from bq27200's reporting, and it's too good to be based on voltage readings from bq27200... I note that from the leaked schematics, cellmo side gazoo has access to the required information for charge metering... So my guess is that bme talks to the cellphone side of N900, and this is pro	14:28
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: so why not put exactly this statement on devel ML?	14:28
ShadowJK	bably the biggest obstacle?	14:28
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ShadowJK	And then it's an open question what happens if you don't have bme shut down the device in a timely manner, does similar stuff happen on N900 as did on SmartQ? :)	14:30
Stskeeps	ShadowJK: doesn't this technically mean that we can make a open bme but with different reading?	14:30
DocScrutinizer	what happened on SmartQ?	14:30
nidO	gotta love battery-eye	14:30
nidO	my n900's battery level has been going up for the past 4 hours according to it	14:30
ptl_demands_PR12	t-tan: wow, that was something I just slipped. Thanks very much. Nevertheless, I'd still like to solve issues like that, do you have a guide or directions?	14:30
ShadowJK	Stskeeps, yes, yes it does	14:31
ptl_demands_PR12	make: dh: Command not found	14:31
ptl_demands_PR12	and I can't install make-dh, no candidate.	14:32
ShadowJK	Stskeeps, and it can be implemented in busybox sh script	14:32
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: btw to all my understanding bq27200 should be better/more accurate than any bme-algo wrt capacity tracking of a standard battery	14:32
ShadowJK	kinda	14:32
ShadowJK	it has some setup issues...	14:32
DocScrutinizer	after a proper learning cycle	14:32
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ShadowJK	and we can't afaik tweak the eeprom	14:33
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DocScrutinizer	neh, we can't afaik. As it needs 20V progvoltage	14:33
DocScrutinizer	at least for bq27000 that's the problem iirc	14:34
Stskeeps	so, 'open	14:34
Stskeeps	' charging on n900 would be safe?	14:34
DocScrutinizer	open what?	14:34
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DocScrutinizer	ticket?	14:35
DocScrutinizer	thread?	14:35
Kurppa_	Open charging.	14:35
Stskeeps	as in, no matter what instructions you sent to the chips, it would not kill the battery?	14:35
ebzzry	Hi! Using the built-in, sliding, physical keyboard of the N900, how can I input characters like an asterisk?	14:35
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: yep, almost	14:35
Stskeeps	what's the 'almost'?	14:35
DocScrutinizer	there's exactly one setting that's a bit fishy	14:35
nidO	ebzzry: asterisk is fn a	14:36
ebzzry	nidO: I want to do it in a contact details window, in the number area.	14:36
DocScrutinizer	that's maximum charge voltage which can go as high as 4V4x, which is a bit above the commonly used 4V2	14:36
nidO	ebzzry: then its just a	14:36
t-tan	ptl_demands_PR12: what is the issue? I just joined the channel	14:37
ebzzry	nidO: Hmm, that did it. Thanks	14:37
ptl_demands_PR12	t-tan: http://pastebin.com/e1fXx3Va	14:37
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DocScrutinizer	my guess is the cell used in a standard Nokia battery for N900 would stand that voltage for quite a while, but wpould wear rapidly	14:37
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t-tan	ptl_demands_PR12: all those issues are solved in debhelper7	14:38
Stskeeps	so, can you propose a charging algorithm and make a proof of why this will not blow up a battery? :P	14:39
nidO	iv been wondering for a while exactly what design constraint limits the bl-5j to 1320mah :(	14:39
DocScrutinizer	but still you need to set this very intentionally, and no closed source will stop a user from messing with I2C directly to do that, even without noticing maybe	14:39
ptl_demands_PR12	t-tan: I installed it, should I uninstall the regular debhelper? I think it'll try to install maemo-dev or something like that	14:39
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: we basically got no charging algorithm, and we don't need such an algorithm. It's all in hardware	14:40
t-tan	ptl_demands_PR12: no, they can coexist. you need to add two lines in your rules file to use it (see pkg description)	14:40
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: and the proof for that is simply the bq24140 datasheet	14:41
ptl_demands_PR12	ok	14:41
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, on N8x0 the charge voltage can spike to 4.4, at around 4.5 bme does abort() and the device reboots.. and since N8x0 hardware is incapable of proper charge current management, a battery with very high internal resistance causes N8x0 to enter reboot loops on charger :)	14:41
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timeless	shadowjk: nice	14:42
DocScrutinizer	hehe	14:42
DocScrutinizer	obviously N810 bat mgmt is abyssmal crap	14:42
DocScrutinizer	hw wise	14:42
Khertan	Hi guys !	14:42
DocScrutinizer	that's the reason for BME heritage	14:42
DocScrutinizer	(damn I said same words before)	14:43
ShadowJK	So I didn't realize at first why this was happening, I just saw bme dying, so I thought I'll just run it from the shell in a god damn while true; bme ; done ... hour later i discoverd a very hot N810 :)	14:43
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: so the charging voltage stuff is public knowledge?	14:43
timeless	can this happen w/ an official nokia battery?	14:43
ShadowJK	Stskeeps, yes	14:43
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: yes	14:43
Yggdrasill	hello	14:43
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jacekowski	hmm	14:44
jacekowski	how to add shortcut to menu?	14:44
DocScrutinizer	timeless: (bootloop?) yes	14:44
X-Fade	IR of the lipo will increase over time/cycles.	14:44
Kegetys	I think my N810 is in that state, when its sitting on the charger it randomly reboots	14:44
timeless	jacewoski: power menu?	14:45
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: yikes. The selfdestruct script	14:45
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, yep :)	14:45
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Kegetys	good to know its probably just the battery :P	14:45
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, needless to say, I am no longer using that battery. Ever	14:45
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DocScrutinizer	Kegetys: same here o.O DUH	14:45
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jacekowski	timeless: i mean in a .dev	14:46
jacekowski	.deb	14:46
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: so, cooking it down, you can make a description of how to charge a n900 battery safely using public information and provide statements why it is safe?	14:46
Stskeeps	and where the pitfalls are and why this is already public info	14:46
timeless	shadowjk: did you send it to nokia?	14:46
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: yep, I can	14:46
ShadowJK	timeless, the battery? Past its 6 month warranty.	14:46
timeless	jacekowski: what kind of "menu"? and when?	14:46
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jacekowski	hildon menu	14:47
jacekowski	i'm making a package	14:47
jacekowski	and i want app to appear in menu	14:47
timeless	what "menu"?	14:47
Khertan	I ve also got a battery which was hot during charge on my n810 ... the original one ... and it also prevent back cover to be close	14:47
Khertan	as the battery grow in size :)	14:48
timeless	is this the icon view@that ets people run apps like "Web"?	14:48
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: might be useful to note that the situation is completely different than in n8x0	14:48
ShadowJK	Khertan, that is dangerous	14:48
DocScrutinizer	hheget vrid of that pregnant battery - then duck and cover ;-P	14:48
DocScrutinizer	shit	14:48
DocScrutinizer	Khertan: get rid of...	14:48
Khertan	ShadowJK : Clearly ...	14:49
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Khertan	I ve return it to a nokia repair shop	14:49
ShadowJK	Pregnant teens, pregnant batteries, I don't know which one is the bigger accident	14:49
Khertan	lol !	14:49
timeless	if the battery miscaries...	14:49
Khertan	hum pregnant battery could burn ... and fix the pregnant teens issue	14:50
lcuk	hope it doesnt - khertan will be paying paternity to duracell for the rest of his life	14:50
Khertan	before the problem happens	14:50
lcuk	all for one night of passion with a AA	14:50
Khertan	lol	14:50
Khertan	Salut lcuk !	14:50
lcuk	\o	14:50
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* Khertan is looking at what toppic is hot since one week on t.m.o		14:52
crashanddie	lol: http://revision3.com/oneoff/unboxpornipad	14:52
crashanddie	salut Khertan, yo lcuk	14:52
MiXu-	crashanddie: 404	14:52
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Khertan	hum .... 1.1 Ghz overclock	14:52
Khertan	lol	14:52
Khertan	Hi crashanddie	14:52
hrw	Khertan: beagleboard kernel has even 1.2GHz step	14:53
Khertan	some didn't fear to not have children with a such overclocked device in the pocket	14:53
crashanddie	MiXu-: sorry: http://revision3.com/unboxingporn	14:53
MiXu-	alright, that works :)	14:53
Khertan	hrw: yep ... but beagleboard doesn t stay in your pocket	14:54
Khertan	:)	14:54
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, SmartQ has a Sandisk emmc that autobricks itself if the voltage drops too low. There were some casualties..	14:54
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DocScrutinizer	MUHAHA	14:55
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DocScrutinizer	well, proper lowvolt emergency shutdown isn't exactly a BME domain anyway	14:56
ShadowJK	I always knew Sandisk were full of shit, but I never quite realized the depths of it :)	14:56
* SpeedEvil wonders on RFI from CPU at 900, and GSM at 900		14:56
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: good point	14:56
* timeless thanks someone for the font-iPad article		14:56
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, oh that's an interesting topic actually, I'm not sure if N900 has a hardware cutoff	14:56
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* timeless will try to pass it on internally		14:57
ShadowJK	L3&L4, iirc, only says Gaia will prevent startup on low voltage	14:57
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SpeedEvil	font-ipad?	14:57
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: GAIA	14:58
DocScrutinizer	should do that via kernel (probably apmd / acpid)	14:58
DocScrutinizer	CPU should get an IRQ on lowvolt detect, which I guess is GAIA's job	14:59
ShadowJK	Oh wait, it does say GAIA Cutoff voltage 2.7V	14:59
DocScrutinizer	yep	14:59
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: when you have the package ready, please share... I am surely interested :)	14:59
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, so when LCD runs on 2.8V, and µSD 1.8-3.0..? :)	15:01
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DocScrutinizer	:-) the wonders of auto-stepup/down converters	15:01
ShadowJK	this is more of a "No BME at all" territory though	15:01
ShadowJK	oh I didn't know gaia did stepup :)	15:02
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jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: it's ready	15:04
jacekowski	i'm sending it to my server	15:04
DocScrutinizer	I'm not sure about it, but very probably it does	15:04
jacekowski	and i need somebody to test it	15:04
jacekowski	mhm	15:05
jacekowski	hildon failed me	15:05
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: do you have ARMEL and X86 deb's or only ARMEL?	15:05
jacekowski	only armel	15:05
DocScrutinizer	btw if somebody missed it: very smae bq24150 battery charger chip also definitely is able to provide VBUS 5V for a potential USB hostmode	15:05
ptl_demands_PR12	If it's optified, I can test it right now	15:06
ShadowJK	I wonder how long until, or if dsme would at all notice a killall -STOP bme_RX-51 :)	15:06
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jacekowski	it's optified	15:06
ptl_demands_PR12	can you /dcc send it to me?	15:06
jacekowski	i'm not sure why there is no icon in menu	15:06
jacekowski	i can http send it to you	15:06
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: it's easy to test	15:06
ptl_demands_PR12	ok	15:06
ptl_demands_PR12	not even the blue icon?	15:06
jacekowski	but it has to finish uploading	15:06
jacekowski	no	15:06
ptl_demands_PR12	there's a bug of icons not updating after installing	15:06
ptl_demands_PR12	oh...	15:06
jacekowski	but it's probably my fault	15:07
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, oh do you have any idea what bme would do with the adc on gaia? afaict gaia's madc driver is open and documented.. I'm just not sure what bme uses it for :)	15:07
ShadowJK	Oh right, battery temperature sensor	15:08
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: Stskeeps: (hostmode) so for all I can guess USB host mode on N900 actually is possible	15:08
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: EXACTLY	15:08
DocScrutinizer	oops capslock	15:09
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, GAIA ADCIN0 --> BTEMP "R1110 10K", GAIA ADCIN4 --> BSI	15:09
ShadowJK	:)	15:09
DocScrutinizer	yoh	15:10
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ptl_demands_PR12	what?	15:10
ptl_demands_PR12	but isn't it physically impossible?	15:10
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DocScrutinizer	ptl_demands_PR12: huh?	15:10
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: I find it weird that it's missing kernel stuff, since hostmode in the beagleboard is working OK afaik?	15:10
ptl_demands_PR12	DocScrutinizer: isn't USB Host mode dependent on hardware that is not there?	15:11
ShadowJK	just means the battery temp sensor is on-device... probably behind one of those metal springs under the battery	15:11
DocScrutinizer	ptl_demands_PR12: see above statement - it contains all the info	15:11
ptl_demands_PR12	[09:05:53] <DocScrutinizer> btw if somebody missed it: very smae bq24150 battery charger chip also definitely is able to provide VBUS 5V for a potential USB hostmode	15:12
ptl_demands_PR12	this one?	15:12
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tackat_	http://nienhueser.de/blog/?p=95 < Marble 'N Maemo	15:13
DocScrutinizer	ptl_demands_PR12: jury still is out on 1707 PHY chip switching the pullup-R for device mode to the pulldowns for hostmode (or was it other way round?), but hostmode can work without that switching	15:13
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DocScrutinizer	ptl_demands_PR12: yes, plus this one: [2010-04-08 14:08:15] <DocScrutinizer> SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: Stskeeps: (hostmode) so for all I can guess USB host mode on N900 actually is possible	15:13
C-S-B-N900	DocScrutinizer: can haz host mode?	15:13
C-S-B-N900	solder free host mode?	15:14
DocScrutinizer	yes	15:14
DocScrutinizer	mere sw issue	15:14
* C-S-B-N900 is fed up of solder after he burnt his little finger jtagging a 360 for someone.		15:15
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C-S-B-N900	well if it is sw only, what reason is there for nokia not including.	15:15
jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: jacekowski.org/maemo/	15:15
jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: both .debs	15:15
DocScrutinizer	cert. It's not conforming all the mandatory standards	15:15
nidO	woot, archos got returned finally	15:15
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jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: but i need somebody to tell me why it doesn't like my .desktop file	15:16
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MiXu-	I should solder a bit today	15:17
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C-S-B-N900	DocScrutinizer: well good find. :)	15:17
C-S-B-N900	Ill assume its just a bit flip?	15:17
jacekowski	anybody here familiar with hildon desktop and .desktop files?	15:17
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MiXu-	My car's central locking system probably has some damaged leads that need soldering :P	15:17
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C-S-B-N900	MiXu-: diy, my finger is in recovery	15:18
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nidO	say, hows your job hunt going	15:19
DocScrutinizer	C-S-B-N900: a little bit more than that. You need the proper hostmode kernel drivers, and you need some cruft which probably was planned to go to bme but is missing for same reasons as the kerneldrivers	15:19
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C-S-B-N900	nidO: havent really pushed much as I have interview tomoz.	15:19
C-S-B-N900	overpaid wintel support role.	15:19
nidO	overpaid jobs suck when im not doing them :(	15:20
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: thanks! will get	15:20
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DocScrutinizer	anyway, USB is basically no directional bus, it can talk and listen to the differential D+/- line in host and device mode in the same way. So it's just a question of the driver to 'talk host'	15:21
C-S-B-N900	nidO: ukfast never got back to me.	15:21
jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: don't install it yet	15:21
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nidO	dickheads	15:21
jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: my hildon desktop just died	15:21
C-S-B-N900	lol,strong but yeah.	15:21
jacekowski	and i'm not sure if it's related	15:21
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C-S-B-N900	nidO: when is your comapny opening a slot?	15:22
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DocScrutinizer	all above without any waranty. It's just how I understand things work	15:22
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C-S-B-N900	thanks DocScrutinizer, i appreciate the research.	15:23
nidO	C-S-B-N900: no idea on specifics, probably going to be needing more staff inside of 4-6 months though	15:23
* DocScrutinizer away to get a N900		15:24
C-S-B-N900	DocScrutinizer: a new one?	15:25
DocScrutinizer	yup, need one to play with to bring free bme and hostmode to you, another one for actual phone usage	15:25
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DocScrutinizer	s/free bme/bme-free ;-P	15:26
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: ok	15:27
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C-S-B-N900	DocScrutinizer: are ypu rich.	15:27
DocScrutinizer	nope, I'm totally broke	15:27
C-S-B-N900	as I cant see how, with gay abandon, one can just "get another n900"	15:28
nidO	well if one was inclined, one could buy the one that fake broke, he offered to sell that for next to nothing	15:28
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nidO	works fine other than him smashing the lcd, and thats cheap to replace	15:29
DocScrutinizer	well, no food, and ultranice guy who's appreciating what I do	15:29
nidO	or just leave as-is, if it's purely a dev device	15:29
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: maybe your desktop file is too fancy, you might try to trim it down... or maybe it's not the right location, I see that there aren't many .desktop files in /usr/share/applications	15:29
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jacekowski	there is more in /usr/share/applications/hildon	15:30
jacekowski	and i moved it there on my phone	15:31
C-S-B-N900	jacekowski: seems like the kind of person to have a fancy desktop file.	15:31
ptl_demands_PR12	ok	15:31
jacekowski	i moved it to that hildon subfolder	15:31
jacekowski	and changed it to	15:31
jacekowski	http://pastebin.com/S0S3Dvgn	15:31
jacekowski	on my phone	15:31
ptl_demands_PR12	by 'too fancy' I mean the translations and such	15:31
jacekowski	and it's still no bo	15:32
jacekowski	no go	15:32
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jacekowski	i'll try restarting	15:32
jacekowski	maybe it's just watching for new files	15:32
Stskeeps	RST38h: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcXtT3rZcqg	15:32
DocScrutinizer	nidO: reference please	15:33
jacekowski	i just gave up	15:33
jacekowski	that's not working	15:33
ptl_demands_PR12	:(	15:33
nidO	DocScrutinizer: to fake's n900?	15:34
DocScrutinizer	yep	15:34
nidO	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=599483&postcount=597	15:34
nidO	pictures of the broke phone are at	15:34
nidO	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=598104&postcount=583	15:34
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jacekowski	does anybody have any ideas?	15:37
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ptl_demands_PR12	I don't. :(	15:37
ptl_demands_PR12	nidO: I ordered his stands	15:37
nidO	same	15:37
ptl_demands_PR12	but it takes a long time to get to Brazil	15:38
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nidO	mine got to the uk in 3 days, was well impressed	15:38
nidO	tempted to order some more as he's got non-slip acrylic ones now, and a couple of styli as well	15:38
MohammadAG	openssh-server + 24/7 server + scratchbox = compiling on the go :)	15:39
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ShadowJK	grr	15:49
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* ShadowJK was having fun unpacking 2 flags, one 2 bit integer and one signed 4bit integer from a byte in bq27200 eeprom, with busybox sh arithmetic, and nano (on device) segfaulted and ate my code >:-(		15:50
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SpeedEvil	:/	15:51
jacekowski	fun fun fun	15:51
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jacekowski	i've tried to rename one of .desktop files	15:51
SpeedEvil	I suggest awk	15:51
jacekowski	and it disappeared from hildin	15:52
jacekowski	after simple rename	15:52
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ptl_demands_PR12	weird	15:53
timeless_mbp	someone remind me to ask crashanddie about fortezza :)	15:53
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jacekowski	fun fun fun	16:04
jacekowski	i've tried different thing	16:04
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jacekowski	i've renamed my chrome-browser.desktop to mc.desktop ( that icon already existed )	16:05
jacekowski	and it worked	16:05
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jacekowski	mc icon is gone	16:05
jacekowski	and it's replaced by chrome	16:05
jacekowski	so WTF?	16:05
andrewfblack	Morning	16:05
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ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: isn't there something on the development guide? maybe you have to register your desktop file, or something?	16:11
lardman	hmm, has anyone written a control panel plugin to allow transitions, etc., to be disabled?	16:12
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lardman	jacekowski: could be a dbus thing, or does chrome come with a dbus service file too?	16:12
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jacekowski	no	16:13
jacekowski	i think i know where is the problem	16:13
jacekowski	/uetc/xdg/menus	16:13
jacekowski	/etc/xdg/menus	16:13
jacekowski	there is a list of all .desktop files	16:13
jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: have you tried installing it	16:14
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jacekowski	because i might be catorise problem	16:14
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: No, because you said I shouldn't	16:14
ptl_demands_PR12	I don't use catorise	16:14
ptl_demands_PR12	should I install?	16:14
lardman	where's this chrome browser then?	16:15
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jacekowski	jacekowski.org/maemo/	16:15
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jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: try	16:15
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: sure, just a minute, will transfer to my N900	16:16
lardman	hmm, big, will have to clear some space this evening	16:16
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ptl_demands_PR12	installing it...	16:16
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ptl_demands_PR12	no icon	16:18
lardman	hm, overclocked N900s, how many have bitten the dust so far then?	16:18
ptl_demands_PR12	let's try rebooting	16:18
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shvedsky_	(test) can I talk?	16:18
jacekowski	do you have catorise?	16:18
lardman	shvedsky: we can hear you	16:19
shvedsky_	thx	16:19
lardman	shvedsky_: or rather you	16:19
lardman	;)	16:19
shvedsky_	both me, but one is unregistered	16:19
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lcuk	hey lardman	16:20
lardman	hey lcuk, how's things?	16:20
ptl_demands_PR12	rebooted, no Icon yet, jacekowski. I don't have catorise	16:20
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jacekowski	hmm ok	16:21
jacekowski	uninstall it	16:21
jacekowski	i have new package	16:21
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lardman	jacekowski: how well does it perform?	16:21
jacekowski	uploading it	16:22
jacekowski	lardman: don't know yet	16:22
lardman	ah I see :)	16:22
jacekowski	so far i'm fuc**** around with icon	16:22
lcuk	lardman a little more busy than i expected for easter	16:22
lardman	tell me about it	16:23
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lardman	lcuk: family well I trust?	16:24
ptl_demands_PR12	it works well	16:25
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jacekowski	i see the problem	16:25
MohammadAG	jacekowski, where does chrome install? (binary)	16:26
jacekowski	ok	16:26
lcuk	yeah simon :) everyone cool	16:26
jacekowski	there is new package	16:26
jacekowski	same address	16:26
ptl_demands_PR12	what was the problem?	16:26
jacekowski	updated version	16:26
jacekowski	uninstall it	16:26
jacekowski	and install again	16:26
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: ok	16:26
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: there is an issue	16:26
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ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: when you fill some fields, by default it uses uppercase	16:26
jacekowski	catorise watches /usr/share/applications/hildon/	16:26
MohammadAG	hildon-desktop watches that too	16:27
ptl_demands_PR12	so if you are writing posts, you have to keep pressing shift for lowercase	16:27
jacekowski	and but it's only updated when package is installed	16:27
jacekowski	i mean - catorise is updated	16:27
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MohammadAG	moved the .desktop file	16:28
jacekowski	so just moving file from /usr/share/applications/ /usr/share/applications/hildon/ by hand wouldn't work	16:28
jacekowski	with catorise	16:28
jacekowski	i'm not sure how about clean hildon	16:28
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jacekowski	but anyways	16:29
lardman	jacekowski: catorise uses the same paths	16:29
jacekowski	lardman: i know	16:29
X-Fade	javispedro: ping	16:29
lardman	so yes, your icon is in the wrong place atm	16:29
jacekowski	lardman: but catorise is updating icons cache differently	16:29
jacekowski	only when there is file installed by dpkg to /usr/share/applications/hildon/	16:29
jacekowski	anywas	16:29
jacekowski	i've got to do some work	16:29
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javispedro	X-Fade: pong	16:31
X-Fade	javispedro: I have a symbols package with PR1.0 symbols for the critical libs.	16:31
javispedro	aha	16:32
X-Fade	javispedro: If I install those in the rootstrap before trying to build with debian squeeze devkit against PR1.2 builder, this should help work?	16:32
javispedro	generated somehow?	16:32
jacekowski	1.0 is useless	16:32
X-Fade	- help ;)	16:32
javispedro	maybe you'd need to edit MINVER, need to check on that, but should work	16:32
javispedro	(so that any non found symbol generates a PR1.2 dep)	16:33
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X-Fade	Hmm yeah, not sure how that will work.	16:33
* javispedro hasn't install the squeeze devkit yet		16:33
jacekowski	how to submit a .deb to maemo-extras-devel?	16:33
X-Fade	I installed it on the builder.	16:33
javispedro	X-Fade: there's a remote but not ignorable chance that just installing it might cause a package not to build	16:33
X-Fade	Can be installed next to the old ones.	16:34
javispedro	X-Fade: ouch	16:34
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X-Fade	javispedro: On the host, sbdmock config hasn't changed for the regular builders of course.	16:34
javispedro	ah, nice	16:34
javispedro	X-Fade: could you distribute the symbols files? I'd like to test the stuff locally too	16:35
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hrw	X-Fade: do you plan to update those symbols with 1.1/1.2 versions?	16:35
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ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: another issue, I could bring the virtual keyboard for symbols like [] {} only the first time, now it doesn't appear anymore and anyway the first symbol i tried wasn't sent to the field I was writing on	16:35
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ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: this look very promising though, I hope you upload to extras-devel so we can flaunt this to all our Android-using friends. lol	16:43
lardman	cu later chaps	16:44
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jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: i'm just reading how to send it	16:46
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: nice :D thanks.	16:47
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jacekowski	i've sent a request	16:50
jacekowski	mhm	16:51
jacekowski	i would have to upload it to non free	16:52
X-Fade	hrw: This is just a proof of concept, let's see if we can make that work.	16:53
hrw	would be great	16:53
X-Fade	Would not solve all problems, but at least it would be more sane.	16:54
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jacekowski	who approves these requests?	16:54
X-Fade	javispedro: me ;)	16:54
X-Fade	ehm jacekowski ^^^	16:55
jacekowski	can you approve it	16:55
jacekowski	before i go home	16:55
X-Fade	jacekowski: check your mail.	16:56
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Stskeeps	X-Fade: is 1.2 squeeze devkit?	16:56
X-Fade	Stskeeps: no	16:56
X-Fade	Stskeeps: That is the hack part ;)	16:56
Stskeeps	cos i've seen funky issues with Breaks: and old dpkg	16:57
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X-Fade	Let's see what happens. I rather have it break in extreme cases then with every regular package.	16:59
javispedro	X-Fade: t-tan suggested creating a temporary sbdmock and throwing most -devel packages (at least a selection of dangerous candidates) to it for a test	17:00
X-Fade	javispedro: Yes, I'm setting up a fremantletest build queue on the builder.	17:00
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X-Fade	Not going to setup a repo at the output, will just put them all in a web dir I guess.	17:01
javispedro	for a start the squeeze devkit tends to throw quite a few more warnings about stuff	17:02
javispedro	s/stuff/shlibdeps stuff	17:02
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javispedro	(even without symbols files)	17:02
javispedro	but are pointing potential problems that were already happening even with the older debian devkit, so no problem there (other than the extra verbosity)	17:03
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jacekowski	i'm confused	17:03
jacekowski	dput -f fremantle-extras-devel-non-free PACKAGE_VERSION_*.changes	17:03
jacekowski	nvm	17:04
jacekowski	i'll rtfm	17:04
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Scelt	PR1.2?	17:04
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jacekowski	nah	17:06
jacekowski	what is the content of that *changes file?	17:07
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javispedro	(sigh) http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/debtest/1.0.2-1/	17:08
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ptl_demands_PR12	debtest?	17:09
javispedro	someone upload his hello world to -devel :P	17:09
javispedro	*uploaded	17:09
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Stskeeps	i'm amazed at how many deodorant advertisements there are on hulu	17:21
Stskeeps	must be the season	17:21
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bullet`	hello room	17:21
bullet`	any news about the pr12	17:21
bullet`	?	17:21
frosty`	yes, but we can't tell you	17:22
bullet`	hehe	17:22
bullet`	ok	17:22
hrw	bullet`: 12 November	17:22
bullet`	i know that news too that no body knows	17:22
MohammadAG	bullet`, pr12?	17:22
bullet`	hehe	17:22
bullet`	just skipped the dot	17:22
MohammadAG	pr12 is coming in 3012	17:22
frosty`	lol	17:22
bullet`	hehe	17:23
bullet`	what an amazing time it ll be	17:23
MohammadAG	indeed	17:23
MohammadAG	the N900 will be running @15GHz	17:23
bullet`	even my brain will support plug n play !!	17:23
MohammadAG	if you live that long :P	17:24
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ptl_demands_PR12	It is said that people usually die only after they reach some objective in life	17:24
bullet`	15ghz is nothing, by 3000, science would gone reletavity to the processor level ... quantum all the way	17:24
bullet`	every calculation in no time :p	17:24
bullet`	ok than i'm living till 3k	17:25
bullet`	:)	17:25
ptl_demands_PR12	PR 1.2 is making us get more longevity by locating this objective too far in time	17:25
Scelt	ptl_demands_PR12: pr1.2 \o/	17:25
bullet`	my n900 is really realy not behaving these days	17:26
bullet`	as it knows it needs 1.2 and now refusing to live with 1.1	17:26
Scelt	me too	17:26
bullet`	the processor usage is going constantly 100%	17:26
Scelt	battery dying	17:26
bullet`	some osso process	17:26
ptl_demands_PR12	mine too, and I can't update 3 apps because of that	17:26
bullet`	no not the battery	17:26
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bullet`	and than that tracke-indexer process	17:27
bullet`	i dont know what these processes want !!!	17:27
bullet`	y now	17:27
lcuk	blood	17:27
ptl_demands_PR12	And that's not justice and love	17:28
ptl_demands_PR12	that's PR 1.2	17:28
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ptl_demands_PR12	They want the same as we want.	17:28
bullet`	yes	17:28
bullet`	the software has evolved !!!	17:28
MohammadAG	actually i think lcuk is right, the N900 has attacked me a couple of times	17:29
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bullet`	looks like while i was sleeping and i leave it connect to internet ... my n900 went to internet , saw the jurrasic park, and somehow understood that "life finds its way"	17:29
bullet`	sigh	17:29
ptl_demands_PR12	MohammadAG: aim for the heart	17:29
bullet`	is n900 going to take over the world	17:30
MohammadAG	ptl_demands_PR12, location location location	17:30
ptl_demands_PR12	MohammadAG: look at the datasheets to see where the CPU is located	17:30
MohammadAG	where is it?	17:30
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lcuk	bullet`, it already has	17:30
lcuk	you just havent noticed yet	17:30
bullet`	i'm just starting to notice all this !	17:30
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ptl_demands_PR12	MohammadAG: http://rs359.rapidshare.com/files/357130766/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf ---> N900 schematics	17:31
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ptl_demands_PR12	let's find out	17:31
MohammadAG	i think it's on the left side	17:32
MohammadAG	under the keyboard	17:32
bullet`	btw	17:32
bullet`	how many ppl r dual booting n900 here ?	17:32
MohammadAG	i did it some time ago	17:33
ptl_demands_PR12	MohammadAG: er	17:33
ptl_demands_PR12	LOL	17:33
Scelt	bullet`: I only dual boot my gf	17:33
ptl_demands_PR12	MohammadAG: there's a message from you on the page where I found this pdf	17:33
ptl_demands_PR12	http://www.nokiausers.net/forum/nokia-n900/34175-n900-schematics-now-available.html	17:33
MohammadAG	ptl_demands_PR12, :)	17:33
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ptl_demands_PR12	Scelt: which bootloader did you install on your girlfriend?	17:33
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bullet`	what is it like dual booting a gf !!	17:33
MohammadAG	petitboot most probably ptl_demands_PR12	17:34
bullet`	y oh y .. is it called RX51 ????	17:34
MohammadAG	cause it's from Area-51	17:34
bullet`	was it decided in the end that this device will be called n900?	17:34
bullet`	internally was it always rx51 ?	17:34
Scelt	ptl_demands_PR12: a small one. called fallos	17:34
bullet`	20k/s download :(	17:34
MohammadAG	RX is ReX	17:34
bullet`	as in trex ?	17:35
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hrw	bullet`: 770 was SU-18, n800 was RX-34, n810 was RX-44, n900 is RX-51	17:35
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* MohammadAG wanted to say that's what she said		17:35
hrw	bullet`: each nokia product has such name	17:35
MohammadAG	but..	17:35
* MohammadAG decided not to		17:35
Kurppa_	RX-51 a.k.a. Rover.	17:35
Scelt	Range rover?	17:35
bullet`	another question is that was R always for Rover	17:35
Stskeeps	RX obviously means Rex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex)	17:35
Stskeeps	king of devices	17:35
Stskeeps	:)	17:35
bullet`	whats a rover	17:35
hrw	I love 700KB/s limit on rapidshare	17:35
bullet`	lemme consult a dictionary first	17:36
javispedro	Roverosaurus Rex	17:36
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, ha! so I was right	17:36
bullet`	roamer, wandered :)	17:36
bullet`	ok	17:36
bullet`	bur RS is giving me only 18k right now	17:37
bullet`	ahh	17:37
hrw	bullet`: and during prototype phase is was N00 probably too	17:37
bullet`	100% usage still on my sweetest n900	17:37
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bullet`	its not ginving me anymore attention :( ... says it needs pr 1.2 baddd !!	17:37
hrw	I used n810 with n00 on it some time ago	17:37
MohammadAG	bullet`, top it	17:37
bullet`	yea	17:37
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bullet`	ok the schematics r downloaded now	17:42
bullet`	should we locate the proc and shoot it ???	17:42
bullet`	but aftyer that will it be able to work and install or1.2 when its time come !!	17:42
bullet`	>	17:42
bullet`	?	17:42
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javispedro	yes, the nearest gremlin will come and fix it for you	17:44
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bullet`	marina harrison !!!	17:44
bullet`	is what i saw on the first page !!	17:44
bullet`	i dont know if she is cool or not	17:44
bullet`	but i want to know that	17:44
bullet`	is she a model ?	17:44
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* javispedro kills developer for mixing tabs and spaces for indentation		17:49
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lcuk	bullet`, to help make your mind up if shes cool or not: marina is running pr1.2	17:49
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bullet`	ok she is the coolest girl in the world	17:49
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bullet`	no one can says anything against that	17:49
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bullet`	i dont knpow where marina is right now ... but i'm going to sleep ... alone !!	17:51
bullet`	sigh !!	17:51
lcuk	gnite	17:52
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MohammadAG	zoutube rocks!	17:55
MohammadAG	it uses the media player now (and the dsp)	17:56
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ptl_demands_PR12	is it working with the new youtube?	17:56
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kamui	zoutube is good now?	17:58
kamui	sweet	17:58
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SpeedEvil_	Wacky. First call on n900.	17:58
SpeedEvil_	(incoming)	17:58
ptl_demands_PR12	?	17:58
kamui	anyone use the espeak incoming call plugin?	17:58
Treibholz	hmpf... no cron...	17:58
kamui	for some reason, even though I have named contacts, it only reads off the number	17:58
kamui	...	17:58
ptl_demands_PR12	kamui: eSpeakCaller? I do	17:58
kamui	yea that ptl_demands_PR12	17:59
kamui	how does it work for you	17:59
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kamui	your names get spoken?	17:59
SpeedEvil_	kamui: I would if I got more than one call per three months.	17:59
kamui	lols	17:59
ptl_demands_PR12	I think so, I usually forgot to run it after reboot	17:59
ptl_demands_PR12	lemme try it.	17:59
kamui	oh man, didn't realize it had to be run after each reboot	17:59
kamui	however, Im on my longest uptime yet	17:59
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tgalal	my app is in python, in control file should I set architecture to all or any? and under scratchbox should I issue dpkg-buildpackage for i386 or armel target?	18:03
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baraujo	tgalal, if your app is pure python (e.g. nothing is compiled) you can use "all" architecture in debian/control	18:05
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tgalal	baraujo, thanks after doing so, the app installed successfully on my N900. In auto builder logs it shows only i386, is this correct or I did something wrong? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/retroconv_0.5.0-1/	18:06
ptl_demands_PR12	kamui: it doesn't seem to be working now. Weird.	18:06
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baraujo	tgalal, IHMO it is correct, because you have to build it only once to be able to use on both archs... autobuilder must run a i386 build because it's faster	18:08
tgalal	baraujo, Great! So now I should wait till it appear in extras devel	18:08
kamui	oh well, it was a nice idea	18:09
kamui	I think...I want to buy that battery for the N900	18:09
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baraujo	tgalal, yeah, it shouldn't take long :)	18:09
kamui	it doesn't look as bad as I thought	18:09
kamui	Ill definately be picking it up if I switch over to tmobile, I hear battery life when you have 3G activated is an attrocity	18:10
tgalal	baraujo, ok thanks a lot :)	18:10
* kamui looks at his N900, and a solitary tear rolls down his cheek thinking about his at&t edge connection woes		18:10
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Mece	'lo maemites!	18:18
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Kurppa_	kamui: at least for me, switching from 3G to 2G about doubled my battery life.	18:19
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Kurppa_	It's partly because none of the network operators here support a certain power saving feature in 3G mode.	18:20
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Kurppa_	The 3G connection does not go idle for 50 seconds after transferring even a single ping packet, so with all my presence accounts online, the 3G data connection never ever sleeps.	18:21
nidO	well half the reason most people's battery lives suffer in 3g mode is because the radio's having to activate and hunt for signal so often in low-reception areas, which are much more common on 3g obviously	18:21
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Kurppa_	Absolutely. I've noticed the same battery drain in optimal 3G conditions as well though.	18:22
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nidO	could really use properly accurate battery level monitors to check exact usage, tbh	18:23
Kurppa_	Optimal meaning 5 operator antennas in this floor of the building.	18:23
nidO	been keeping an eye on things with battery-eye and had a period of about 4 and a half hours this morning of it reporting my battery level increasing	18:24
Kurppa_	Yeah. battery-eye is not that accurate :-)	18:24
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DocScrutinizer	I think main reason for any data connection to suck battery is TX, which takes place as well on unsolicited inbound TCP packets	18:25
nidO	I have found out that an obvious way to massively increase my battery life further was to disable the bluetooth connection to my system	18:25
nidO	im used to just leaving BT enabled and connected as on symbian devices it idles well enough to draw essentially no power	18:25
Kurppa_	Yeah. There's something wrong with BT as far as I can tell.	18:25
Kurppa_	It also starts to cause weird behavior in my device, after being active for a few hours and connecting to a few different BT accessories.	18:26
DocScrutinizer	visible BT sends baecons	18:26
nidO	I disabled the connection on my pc yesterday (leaving bluetooth actually active on the device but no longer connected to the pc) and from the past 24 hour's level drop according to battery-eye, i've halved the device's idle power draw	18:26
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jacekowski	mhm	18:27
jacekowski	Uploading to fremantle-extras-devel-non-free (via scp to drop.maemo.org):	18:27
jacekowski	Permission denied (publickey).	18:27
jacekowski	lost connection	18:27
javispedro	you have to put a public ssh key into garage	18:28
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jacekowski	i did	18:28
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X-Fade	jacekowski:	18:29
X-Fade	Failed publickey for jacekowski from 109.224.x.x	18:29
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jacekowski	i copied my authorized_keys from my server and pasted it into box	18:30
jacekowski	and i can login to that server	18:31
X-Fade	jacekowski: you need to paste id_rsa.pub	18:31
jacekowski	i don't have id_rsa	18:31
jacekowski	i have id_dsa	18:31
X-Fade	jacekowski: Not your own authorized_keys.	18:31
jacekowski	and id_dsa.pub	18:31
X-Fade	jacekowski: That one then ;)	18:31
X-Fade	the pub one!	18:31
jacekowski	i know	18:31
X-Fade	jacekowski: Ok, just to make sure ;)	18:31
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X-Fade	Ah, I see the problem.	18:32
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X-Fade	jacekowski: You pasted 2 keys and one has root@jac* attached to the end.	18:33
jacekowski	yes	18:33
X-Fade	jacekowski: without space.	18:33
jacekowski	and that's one i'm using	18:33
jacekowski	oh	18:34
X-Fade	jacekowski: So I'd advice you to drop it, it is not needed.	18:34
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jacekowski	that's how it stands in id_dsa.pub http://jacekowski.org/keys.txt	18:37
jacekowski	and that's how it was working for ages	18:37
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Mizaku	that site is weird (O.O)	18:38
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ptl_demands_PR12	which site?	18:39
jacekowski	let me generate rsa keys	18:39
X-Fade	jacekowski: no need.	18:39
X-Fade	jacekowski: just paste the ssh-dss and the key part in the field. Leave out the host.	18:39
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* mgedmin notes that the third bit of an ssh public key is called the comment field, or something like that		18:39
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jacekowski	no	18:39
dotblank	I have a script I would luike to run as a daemon and at phone startup	18:39
dotblank	How would I go about doing that	18:40
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Mizaku	http://jacekowski.org/~blessjah/log/ that's better	18:40
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tgalal	Does this mean something has gone wrong ?! http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/retroconv/0.5.0-1/ I'm getting fed up with this packaging thing. This is like my 20th attempt :(	18:40
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mgedmin	dotblank, on a N900? write an (old) upstart config file in /etc/event.d/	18:40
dotblank	mgedmin, yea. Thanks for the info	18:41
nidO	I would say something appears to have gone pretty badly wrong, yes	18:41
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jacekowski	Mizaku: that's not mine	18:42
jacekowski	X-Fade: i made new rsa key	18:42
jacekowski	X-Fade: and it's still failing	18:42
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Mizaku	but it begins with your url..?	18:43
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jacekowski	Mizaku: but that's not mine	18:43
jacekowski	somebody has shell account on my server	18:43
Mizaku	Dumdadum....	18:43
jacekowski	well couple people have shell account there	18:44
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jacekowski	and drop.maemo.org doesn't like my brand new keys	18:44
X-Fade	tgalal: Let me check your package.	18:45
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tgalal	X-Fade, thanks!	18:45
jacekowski	X-Fade: are these keys updated straight away?	18:46
jacekowski	or i have to wait?	18:46
X-Fade	jacekowski: no, cron job.	18:46
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jacekowski	that could explain it	18:46
MohammadAG	jacekowski, it took 10 mins yesterday	18:47
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MohammadAG	kept saying perm denied (publickey)	18:47
jacekowski	i added new rsa key	18:48
jacekowski	and will wait	18:48
X-Fade	tgalal: Don't use uppercase section names, it is user/desktop	18:48
X-Fade	tgalal: If you change that, it will be fine.	18:48
tgalal	X-Fade, thanks I'll give it a shot	18:48
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jacekowski	Successfully uploaded packages.	18:49
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tgalal	X-Fade, still the same problem after going small case letters. I tried to re upload again now it says The same or newer version (retroconv 0.5.0-1) is already in extras-devel	18:57
X-Fade	tgalal: Increase the version number after it has been accepted once.	18:57
X-Fade	tgalal: Also the interface can take up to 30 mins to import the data.	18:58
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jacekowski	X-Fade: does it accept dsa keys?	18:59
X-Fade	jacekowski: should.	18:59
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jacekowski	Successfully uploaded packages.	19:06
jacekowski	ok	19:06
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jacekowski	chrome finally uploaded	19:06
jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: chrome uploaded	19:06
Scelt	jacekowski: WHERE	19:07
tripzero	google chrome?	19:07
tgalal	X-Fade, great!!! I increased the version number, re uploaded and now the description shows. But the file size is still 0, should I wait or what ? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_i386/retroconv/0.5.1-1/	19:07
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brik	VDVsx: do you mind if I pm about gsoc?	19:07
jacekowski	to maemo-extras-devel	19:07
VDVsx	brik, sure	19:08
Scelt	where I can follow newest devel or garage changes?	19:08
jacekowski	appwatch	19:08
jacekowski	Scelt: it's not in repository yet	19:08
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Scelt	jacekowski: appwatch is a bit too simple	19:09
jacekowski	ok	19:09
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jacekowski	chromium is in repo	19:09
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jacekowski	i just hope that dependencies are correct	19:10
jacekowski	well, i'm pretty much sure that they are not	19:10
tgalal	X-Fade, YES FINALLY! Can't thank you enough! sorry it's my first time :)	19:10
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* lcuk gets tgalal a cigarette		19:11
ptl_demands_PR12	lol	19:11
jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: chrome in repo	19:11
nidO	tgalal: dont forget a bugtracker ;)	19:11
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: cool,	19:11
ptl_demands_PR12	jacekowski: lemme refresh to see if I can find it there. Did you upload libxss too?	19:11
jacekowski	yes	19:11
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jacekowski	( it's only package i've got in Depends:)	19:12
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jacekowski	ptl_demands_PR12: look under chromium	19:12
jacekowski	MohammadAG: chrome in repo	19:12
nidO	i'm either blind or not seeing it	19:13
jacekowski	let me check	19:13
MohammadAG	jacekowski, already installed it from your site :)	19:13
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MohammadAG	had to move the .desktop file into ./hildon	19:13
tgalal	nidO, I will, but let me enjoy this relief for a while before I mess things up again lol	19:13
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ptl_demands_PR12	ok! I will also post in a brazilian forum where there are some people too keen on trying software, will ask them to report bugs	19:13
MohammadAG	from /usr/share/applications	19:13
MohammadAG	jacekowski, is it optified?	19:13
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ptl_demands_PR12	it is	19:14
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Scelt	ptl_demands_PR12: u talking about google chrome, dat browsah?	19:15
jacekowski	MohammadAG: yes	19:16
ptl_demands_PR12	Scelt: yes, thanks to jacekowski	19:16
tripzero	so long as it has flickscroll, it'd be quite an awesome mobile browser	19:16
jacekowski	it doesn't	19:16
Scelt	ptl_demands_PR12: okay, and where I can find it? from extras-devel?	19:16
jacekowski	at least not now	19:16
tripzero	:(	19:16
ptl_demands_PR12	Scelt: jacekowski has just uploaded it, I am refreshing to see if I can find it	19:17
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jacekowski	X-Fade: what i've done wrong?	19:17
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SpeedEvil	jacekowski: you were naughty when you were 6?	19:17
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SpeedEvil	You can install some addons to regular firefox to make it more usable touch	19:18
SpeedEvil	all-in-one gestures, for example	19:18
Scelt	I don't like FF	19:18
ptl_demands_PR12	no results on extras-devel	19:18
jacekowski	i see it here	19:19
jacekowski	http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/c/	19:19
ptl_demands_PR12	maybe the repository index has a cron job to be refreshed too	19:20
jacekowski	possible	19:20
ptl_demands_PR12	why is it non-free?	19:20
SpeedEvil	autobulider down, can only up binaries?	19:20
jacekowski	because i'm to lazy to create proper debian package	19:20
SpeedEvil	well - not down but can't make 1.1.1 binaries	19:20
jacekowski	that would build on autobuilder	19:20
SpeedEvil	or am I confused	19:20
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jacekowski	and it would take ages to build	19:21
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jacekowski	and i had to hack scratchbox to build it	19:21
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MohammadAG	jacekowski, do you have the .tar.gz uploaded somewhere?	19:21
jacekowski	no	19:21
MohammadAG	so you're not making it open?	19:22
jacekowski	i just finished a package	19:22
jacekowski	probably on saturday when i'll have little bit of time	19:22
jacekowski	to make proper debian package	19:22
MohammadAG	no not a proper one	19:22
MohammadAG	just a .tar.gz of the source	19:22
jacekowski	it will go together	19:23
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Scelt	konttori: Ho ho ho. Merry Christmas?	19:23
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jacekowski	anyways	19:24
jacekowski	time to go home	19:24
ptl_demands_PR12	good rest	19:24
Scelt	well done, son	19:24
Scelt	may the Force be with you	19:24
ptl_demands_PR12	hakuna matata!	19:24
konttori	Scelt: ho ho, to you too.	19:25
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Scelt	ptl_demands_PR12: what's that PR12 you are demanding?	19:27
ptl_demands_PR12	Scelt: PR 1.2, the mythical update that never comes™	19:27
Scelt	;D	19:27
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ptl_demands_PR12	Scelt: many packages on the repositories are currently broken, many bugs in bugzilla are marked fixed by more than a month, PR1.2 packages have been released for the scratchbox environment for almost one month and Nokia still hasn't released this service pack. I am just voicing the opinion of many users about that delay, and I don't get the excuse that it's due to necessary testing.	19:31
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lcuk	ptl_demands_PR12 how do you know its unnecessary?	19:32
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trumee	guys anybody using sip?	19:32
Mece	zchydem's flickr app looks nice.. http://zchydem.enume.net/2010/04/08/my-first-qt-quick-app-quickflickr/	19:33
trumee	in N95 i could open the addressbook, select a phone number and do "Call using sip"	19:33
trumee	in N90, if i click on any phone number it straight away calls the mobile provider, and there is no way to choose it as a sip call	19:33
Scelt	ptl_demands_PR12: I gotcha bro. Even I'm a Finn and very proud of the work of Nokia, I'm still a bit disappointed and sad about the situation in this current world where competitioners take their share from Nokia. For example navigation should have been free from the day one and they shouldn't have waited for the all these years for the touch phones. They are late in everything :(	19:33
trumee	/N90/N900/	19:33
ptl_demands_PR12	lcuk: not this flamewar again... I do not "know", because I do know nothing inside Nokia. But this is taking too long and the consequences of the packages being delayed are been felt	19:33
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ptl_demands_PR12	lcuk: daily in this very channel you see just too many issues caused from the delay of PR1.2, from autobuilder problems to packages that can't update due to a lack of updated libs like libhildon1 and conflict of names like qt4-maemo vs. qt4	19:34
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PhonicUK	hey all	19:36
ptl_demands_PR12	hello	19:36
PhonicUK	hows everyone in maemo land?	19:36
toggles_w	meego home now	19:37
PhonicUK	lol	19:37
Stskeeps	lo toggles_w	19:37
dotblank	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49522	19:37
dotblank	just got all that to work :)	19:37
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toggles_w	Stskeeps: hello! I'm coming to visit, clean off the couch	19:37
PhonicUK	im pulling 3.3Mbps while on the bus :\|	19:37
MohammadAG	operation temporrly disabled due to low memory err	19:38
lcuk	ptl, sure there is an ambiguity between sdk and real machines and i am also sure the devs and everyone involved is doing whatever possible to expidite the release.	19:38
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Lateralus	any suggestions as to how to fix an mmc set to read only?	19:40
Lateralus	or any idea as to what the heck happened to make it so?	19:40
Lateralus	Just noticed my camera app won't take pictures on my N900, "operation failed", and the mmc I added awhile back can't be written to.	19:40
ptl_demands_PR12	Lateralus: usually a filesystem is set to read-only when some corruption is detected on it	19:40
VDVsx	~poke lcuk	19:41
* infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind lcuk, pokes lcuk repeatedly, hilarity ensues.		19:41
ptl_demands_PR12	Lateralus: you should umount it, fsck it, then remount it with the errors corrected	19:41
Lateralus	ptl_demands_PR12: That's fairly vague?	19:41
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lcuk	~fsck VDVsx	19:41
Lateralus	ptl_demands_PR12: I will try	19:41
infobot	e2fsck /dev/VDVsx : warning! filesystem contains dumbasses!	19:41
VDVsx	:D	19:41
javispedro	~botsnack	19:41
infobot	thanks, javispedro	19:41
javispedro	such a nice bot.	19:41
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Lateralus	bah, device or resource busy -_-	19:43
ptl_demands_PR12	lololol	19:44
ptl_demands_PR12	a brazilian n900 blog has a new post about the N900... watching sygic with brazil maps and PR 1.2...	19:44
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lcuk	ptl_demands_PR12, links help	19:45
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ptl_demands_PR12	"Meanwhile, in Nokia Headquartes... '- trainee, get me a coffee!' - '- But, sir, I was going to turn the coffee machine off to power up and bring online the server with PR1.2!' - '- The users have waited too long, they can wait a little longer. Get me my coffee!'"	19:46
ptl_demands_PR12	lcuk: it's in portuguese, but ok... http://n900.aguilarj.com/?p=1124	19:46
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ptl_demands_PR12	the blog's owner is the developer of PySafe.	19:47
b-man\|laptop	hmm, it looks like repo.meego.com is down.. :P "Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to repo.meego.com"	19:47
trumee	guys, is there a cron on N900? my intentions are to mute the volume when i go to bed.	19:47
Stskeeps	b-man\|laptop: maintaince	19:47
b-man\|laptop	ah	19:47
ptl_demands_PR12	trumee: there are many crons, you can use fcron that is more cron-like but adds an extra service to the N900, or you can use alarmed which is an alarmd interface - alarmd is a scheduler daemon that comes with the N900	19:48
b-man\|laptop	Stskeeps: were they suppose to be announcing the mobile UX today?	19:49
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lcuk	ok ptl thats not a blog post thats another rant	19:49
ptl_demands_PR12	trumee: there is also another interface to alarmd called System Event Scheduler but it seems less mature	19:49
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Stskeeps	b-man\|laptop: hm? :P	19:49
trumee	ptl_demands_PR12: i guess i can simply use amixer to set volume to 0 using alarmd.	19:50
ptl_demands_PR12	lcuk: actually it seems more like a joke, that happens when people are just frustrated. They use humour sometimes...	19:50
b-man\|laptop	Stskeeps: i saw some people talking about it on irc yesterday	19:50
ptl_demands_PR12	Treibholz: and you can use alarmed to configure that	19:50
jacekowski	X-Fade: help	19:50
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javispedro	lcuk: it's half rant half news :)	19:50
lcuk	ptl_demands_PR12, speaking of humour, Marina Harisson is on pr1.2 :p	19:50
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Lateralus	WTF	19:51
trumee	ptl_demands_PR12: any idea if it reduced the volume of the email/IM notifications. Bloody phone woke me up at 5AM this morning because of email notification.	19:51
ptl_demands_PR12	lol	19:51
Lateralus	ptl_demands_PR12: did that, seemed to be ok, opened the camera lid and the N900 beeped/screeched and won't turn on.	19:51
trumee	/reduced/reduces/	19:51
Lateralus	turned off, and now won't turn on.	19:51
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ptl_demands_PR12	Lateralus: ???? What did you do?	19:52
Lateralus	ptl_demands_PR12: I opened the damn camera lid	19:52
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ptl_demands_PR12	and this bricked your phone?	19:52
ptl_demands_PR12	oh	19:52
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jacekowski	trumee: i would go and see specialist	19:52
ptl_demands_PR12	the filesystem problem	19:52
ptl_demands_PR12	:/	19:53
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ptl_demands_PR12	you remounted the filesystem ok?	19:53
trumee	jacekowski: :)	19:53
jacekowski	trumee: i can set up alarm in n900 and it's not going to wake me up	19:53
jacekowski	e-mail notfication is like - ding	19:53
Lateralus	ptl_demands_PR12: after removing the battery and sticking it back in it turned on	19:53
Lateralus	ptl_demands_PR12: I was very angry for those few seconds.	19:53
ptl_demands_PR12	Lateralus: nice, and did it boot properly? is it working?	19:53
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Lateralus	ptl_demands_PR12: seems to be fine	19:54
ptl_demands_PR12	cool@	19:54
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Lateralus	ptl_demands_PR12: nome-vfs-daemon keeps crashing.	19:54
Lateralus	gnome*	19:54
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Lateralus	ptl_demands_PR12: bah, it's still read-only	19:56
Trizt	is there a "min free space needed" for pr1.2?	19:56
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jacekowski	maybe my .dsc or .changes file is wrong	19:57
ptl_demands_PR12	Trizt: when it's out we will know	19:57
Lateralus	ptl_demands_PR12: fsck just goes through the same steps each time I run it.	19:58
ptl_demands_PR12	Lateralus: that's weird, because the fstab (the file which lists the filesystems to be mounted) is generated at boot-time, so it could not have been a change in the config files. This means the filesystem is still corrupted. Have your fsck fixed all the problems in the filesystem? Was it MyDocs? If it was, maybe it's not fsck, maybe it's another program to fix that	19:58
ptl_demands_PR12	MyDocs is a vfat filesystem	19:59
Lateralus	ptl_demands_PR12: no, this is an external card, not related to MyDocs	19:59
ptl_demands_PR12	hmm	19:59
Lateralus	it's just music, etc	19:59
ptl_demands_PR12	oh, ok	19:59
javispedro	NAUGHTY PROGRAMMER!!! SPANK SPANK SPANK!!! lol VDVsx	19:59
ptl_demands_PR12	anyway, I've just verified and fsck supports vfat	19:59
Lateralus	etc being a deb I made of Stellarium, and some tgz file	19:59
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ptl_demands_PR12	maybe you can temporarily copy its contents to another place, reformat it completely and put the contents back again	20:00
Lateralus	yeah, I'm trying that now, thanks	20:01
Lateralus	I'll format the card on a separate computer if this doesn't work	20:01
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konttori	Trizt: it's 30 megs (or 28, can't remember)	20:04
Trizt	in that case I have space enough	20:05
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konttori	actually something like 22 is enough, but we set the limit to 30 (or 28...)	20:05
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* Trizt ods		20:06
* Trizt nods		20:06
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dmj726_n900	Hmm...trying to decide the best method to distribute a video for my gsoc proposal.	20:07
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jogglerspedro	why, oh why.	20:07
SpeedEvil_	youtube.	20:08
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Stskeeps	jogglerspedro: ?	20:09
jogglerspedro	Stskeeps: they made me fall in love with this joggler thingie only to realize they're only shipping UK :(	20:09
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jogglerspedro	Stskeeps: oh, you have one too iirc?	20:10
GAN900	lol	20:10
PhonicUK	how do i find large files on rootfs?	20:10
Stskeeps	jogglerspedro: yes	20:10
GAN900	jogglerspedro, I'm pretty sure this is unhealthy. :P	20:10
PhonicUK	23mb free with extras repo disabled	20:10
Stskeeps	jogglerspedro: not living in UK though	20:10
jacekowski	jogglerspedro: i ordered one	20:11
SpeedEvil_	PhonicUK: /usr/bin/gnu/find / -mount -size +999k -ctime -66	20:11
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Stskeeps	jogglerspedro: find a willing UKian to buy and ship you one	20:11
ptl_demands_PR12	PhonicUK: it's quite difficult to have a file in rootfs that does not belong to a package. There is a perl script which can tell you the usage on rootfs of each package, let me find it for you	20:11
Stskeeps	if they're not out	20:11
jacekowski	-66?	20:11
VDVsx	jogglerspedro, not my code, blame rasterman, I guess :D	20:11
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SpeedEvil_	jacekowski: younger than 66 days	20:12
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jacekowski	i know that	20:12
jacekowski	what's the point of it	20:12
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trumee	ptl_demands_PR12: cant download alarmed from extras-devel, it has a qt-4.6.2 dependency	20:12
javispedro	VDVsx: excuses :)	20:12
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SpeedEvil_	jacekowski: where 66 is some number of days shorter than the time since the last update	20:12
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ptl_demands_PR12	PhonicUK: the perl scripts are here --> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=500101&postcount=7	20:13
PhonicUK	ty	20:13
SpeedEvil_	jacekowski: so you only find added	20:13
trumee	Stskeeps: is the audio ticking problem resolved for joggler?	20:13
ptl_demands_PR12	trumee: :( and when I "demand" PR1.2 people flame me... see? We need this update.	20:13
Stskeeps	trumee: not yet	20:13
Stskeeps	trumee: we're investigating still	20:13
ptl_demands_PR12	trumee: can you get version 0.1.8-3 from its page? I think this version does not depend on qt-4.6.2	20:14
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trumee	ptl_demands_PR12: cant find its page :(	20:16
trumee	ptl_demands_PR12: its not in garage, and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46594&highlight=alarmd doesnt list the url	20:17
javispedro	Stskeeps: here, I found an Ukian: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ukian	20:17
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Scelt	ptl_demands_PR12: chrome already in devel?	20:17
ptl_demands_PR12	trumee: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/alarmed/0.1.8-3/	20:17
trumee	ptl_demands_PR12: cheers	20:18
ptl_demands_PR12	Scelt: lemme see	20:18
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ptl_demands_PR12	Scelt: it has not shown up here yet, after updating.	20:21
Scelt	ptl_demands_PR12: okthx. later then	20:21
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javispedro	Stskeeps: btw, could I ask you for a boot dmesg of a joggler?	20:22
Stskeeps	javispedro: yes, gladly, give me a couple of seconds	20:22
Stskeeps	javispedro: jogglerhacks.blogspot.com for interesting stuff as well :P	20:23
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javispedro	thanks!	20:23
SpeedEvil_	joggler url?	20:23
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javispedro	SpeedEvil: a useful one is http://hackthejoggler.blogspot.com/2009/06/what-is-this-hack-joggler-stuff.html	20:24
Stskeeps	javispedro: http://pastebin.com/7gziERzK	20:24
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Stskeeps	javispedro: http://pastebin.com/9SsRrVRs as well	20:25
javispedro	aha, the builtin flash is connected through a sdhci pci card	20:26
Stskeeps	mmc	20:26
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MohammadAG	http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/multitasking-comes-to-iphone-os-4-0/ 4 generations to get it right...	20:27
PhonicUK	gah the scripts don't work	20:27
PhonicUK	syntax errors :\	20:27
Trizt	thats iphone 4G?	20:27
javispedro	MohammadAG: looks like they didn't	20:28
Stskeeps	javispedro: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/Joggler	20:28
bergie	javispedro: yeah, seems only some certain services are working while your app is "in the background"	20:28
javispedro	bergie: PalmOS-style multitasking :(	20:29
MohammadAG	javispedro, at least the poor guys got it	20:29
javispedro	*PalmOS5	20:29
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javispedro	"We're releasing a framework called accelerate -- for hardware accelerated math functions." only jobs could advertise stuff like that. genius.	20:31
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javispedro	Stskeeps: thanks! lack of rtc is disturbing me a bit now	20:34
MohammadAG	javispedro, well the iPad was magical	20:34
RST38h	javispedro: What? Jobs invented math?	20:35
Stskeeps	javispedro: who cares with ntpdate..	20:35
Stskeeps	:P	20:35
javispedro	I had one plausible use for it that assumed rtc :(	20:35
javispedro	but it was geeky anyway	20:35
javispedro	;)	20:35
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ptl_demands_PR12	I assume that to specify whether it was floating-point math or integer math would be too nerdy	20:36
javispedro	math!	20:36
javispedro	just math.	20:36
javispedro	enough to throw confusion into all the expected audience	20:36
javispedro	even better, to throw the entire audience into confusion :)	20:36
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RST38h	javispedro: Has something happened with the apple cult lately? I managed to remove all apple news from gizmodo/engadget feeds, so I am not sure what you are talking about	20:38
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javispedro	RST38h: jobs invented multitasking, hw accelerated math, skype, and is at this moment inventing tomtom	20:39
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RST38h	javispedro: Is he inventing tomtom for free or for a fee?	20:40
javispedro	the latter, of course.	20:40
andrewfblack	iPhone os 4.0 is going to have Custom Wallpapers, Welcome to the 1990s everyone!!	20:40
RST38h	Ah	20:40
javispedro	^^ and now he's inventing wallpapers	20:41
RST38h	andrewfblack <-- obviously not in the loop	20:41
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andrewfblack	javispedro: he also invented Multitasting today	20:41
javispedro	and catorise, he also invented folders in the launcher	20:41
MohammadAG	javispedro, when he announced the iPad, he said you can change your wallpaper	20:41
RST38h	those in the loop know very well that there weren't any wallpapers before iPhone OS 4.0	20:41
MohammadAG	I thought the iPhone could do that...	20:41
javispedro	MohammadAG: it couldn't. watch the the ministry of truth in action.	20:41
andrewfblack	MohammadAG: just on the lock screen no where else before today	20:41
FIQ	...	20:42
FIQ	serious?	20:42
furunk3l	pls, someone help. i have this really strange problem with my n900 for the third time now. the touchscreen seems to hang. its not recognzing any input.	20:42
andrewfblack	He also invented something called a Folder I don't know what it is but it sounds cool	20:42
FIQ	even the monochrome phones was able to do that...	20:43
lcuk	furunk3l, what apps are you running	20:43
javispedro	ah, jobs just invented App Store Third-Party Mail Attachment Viewers!	20:43
lcuk	do you get click noises from it when you press	20:43
furunk3l	lcuk, at the time the touchscreen is haning or in general?	20:43
furunk3l	*hanging/not responding	20:43
lcuk	your screen is not responding, what can you see	20:43
lcuk	what happens when you touch it	20:43
RST38h	javispedro: has he invented the instant messaging already or is it coming?	20:44
lcuk	what did you do to break it	20:44
javispedro	RST38h: what's this instant thing you're talking about	20:44
andrewfblack	just noticed steve can't do math they sold 450K ipads but the app Ibook has been downloaded 600k times how is that possible?	20:44
javispedro	;)	20:44
RST38h	javispedro: you will know when jobs announces it	20:44
furunk3l	lcuk: when i swipe to swipe through the desktops it seems to work, but then it switches back to the desktop i was.	20:44
javispedro	it doesn't exist! never exited!	20:44
lcuk	andrewfblack, easily enough	20:44
andrewfblack	RST38h: he invented MMS last year	20:44
furunk3l	kinetic scrolling is not wokring	20:44
furunk3l	and when i receive a call, i cannot take it	20:44
RST38h	andrewfblack: most hyperactive fans downloaded it twice?	20:45
lcuk	furunk3l, ok, so its not a hardware problem in that its not working - its just funky and not working right	20:45
furunk3l	i press the touchscreen, and it hangs.	20:45
andrewfblack	lcuk: only way would be for 250k people to download twice	20:45
furunk3l	lcuk, exactly	20:45
javispedro	furunk3l: something funky indeed :P did you install anything recently?	20:45
furunk3l	nohing	20:45
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furunk3l	i can fix it with a complete reinstall	20:45
javispedro	furunk3l: put a lot of files in an sd card or the builtin memory?	20:45
furunk3l	and after some time its back	20:45
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furunk3l	javispedro, yes.	20:46
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furunk3l	loads of music	20:46
javispedro	furunk3l: then leave it alone for a few hours and it might revive	20:46
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furunk3l	its not the trackerd	20:46
lcuk	furunk3l, can you click to open apps	20:46
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lcuk	or console via ssh	20:46
furunk3l	lcuk, no.	20:46
javispedro	aha, Free Winnie the Pooh eBook with every iPad. Their target market is crystal clear now.	20:46
lcuk	no because ssh isnt installed or no because ssh isnt working	20:47
furunk3l	when i click, it somethimes gets recognized as a long press	20:47
furunk3l	and opens the contextmenu	20:47
SpeedEvil_	javispedro: the ipad doesn't need additional poo.	20:47
andrewfblack	WTF no free Winnie the Pooh on N900 thats a Show Stopper for me	20:47
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lcuk	as long as theres a free winnie the pooh theme :p	20:48
andrewfblack	btw I wan to thank everyone who changed their useragent on Nokia Devices ot iphone for their websites you helped apple say this.. "iPhone has a 64% mobile browser use share"	20:49
furunk3l	ssh is not istalled	20:49
andrewfblack	lcuk: don't make me go make a winnie the pooh theme for N900	20:49
lcuk	furunk3l, what happens if you reboot	20:49
andrewfblack	lcuk: you know I will do it a made a Hello kitty one for Stskeeps	20:49
lcuk	andrewfblack, bet you cant	20:49
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furunk3l	lcuk, when i reboot immediatly i cannot enter the pin for my simcard.	20:50
andrewfblack	Pooh theme will be out this weekend	20:50
* javispedro find the browser screenshot with a huge message box "Do you want to accept invitation to play Winnie the Pooh the Game with random boring contact that is interrupting you constantly while trying to, well, BROWSE the WWW?" hilarious.		20:50
furunk3l	i press randomly on the screen and after some time its working	20:50
lcuk	furunk3l, if you turn off the phone remove battery and let it cooldown for 10mins	20:50
lcuk	plug in and test again	20:50
furunk3l	okay	20:50
lcuk	lets see if its potentially something like that	20:50
lcuk	especially if immediate reboot fails	20:51
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kamui	my penis is affectionally errect	20:51
kamui	that was inappropriate, and I apologize	20:51
lcuk	kamui, i know you are as excited as the rest of us for pr1.2 but you are right,keep it in your pants	20:52
Stskeeps	to winnie the pooh? oh dear	20:52
andrewfblack	I manged to get Dropbox Sync on my N900, using N900, Desktop Computer, Dyndns, ipcheck script, application to sync Dropbox Folder to FTP server, Dropbear running on N900. Now why I would I want an iphone. If the application is made for hte iphone you are just out of luck	20:52
furunk3l	is there word for the pr 1.2 release?	20:53
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andrewfblack	Stskeeps: You know you want the winnie the pooh theme	20:53
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javispedro	furunk3l: not really.	20:53
Stskeeps	andrewfblack: i can guess some people that do	20:53
andrewfblack	Stskeeps: I really did make that Hello Kitty theme I kept saying I would but just never released it	20:53
* andrewfblack is giving up on a N900 LCARS theme not looking right		20:54
lcuk	i see valid reasoning to enforce OMG Ponies! theme upon anyone with "demands_PR12" in their irc nickname	20:54
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andrewfblack	I'm almost to the point of getting in hte the whole lets go crasy on TMO thing. I figure if I post that I have an early release of PR1.2 and do some fake screenshots people will beleave me	20:55
MohammadAG	lol I was just gonna see if noobmonk3y was online	20:55
* noobmonk3y huffs n puffs		20:56
noobmonk3y	7 hours driving, my legs are achingggggggggg	20:56
lcuk	flintstones car?	20:56
noobmonk3y	;) not far off	20:56
MohammadAG	LOL	20:56
* MohammadAG gives noobmonk3y the massager maemo app		20:56
noobmonk3y	w000000000p	20:56
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javispedro	andrewfblack: you doubt it?	20:56
noobmonk3y	nice relaxing evening with the missus in a bit - so only on for 30 mins :D	20:57
javispedro	andrewfblack: they will. someone even nearly believed the "overclocked to a gazillion ghz" shot	20:57
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andrewfblack	javispedro: Well I figure I have a little creditillity in the community to string people along for a while	20:57
* MohammadAG reminds noobmonk3y that a PM window exists		20:57
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noobmonk3y	trust lcuk to post a sensible reply in my oh so sensible healthcheck thread ;)	20:58
lcuk	someone had to :p	20:59
noobmonk3y	lol good point ;)	20:59
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* andrewfblack thinks about his if you can't beat them join them post he should do on tmo		20:59
noobmonk3y	thought i did a good job at fending of the "Kill my device " requests	20:59
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jacekowski	X-Fade: are you there?	21:00
lcuk	jacekowski, did you put the source to your package anywhere yet	21:00
javispedro	and now jobs just invented ... flash.	21:01
javispedro	but it's not flash.	21:01
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pupnik	what then	21:02
javispedro	html5 advertising!	21:03
andrewfblack	javispedro: looks like be invited Advertising aswell	21:03
* andrewfblack can't talk to much junk about Apple he still steals his old iphone back from while for some mobile gaming every now and then		21:05
GAN900	iPad is offtopic. :P	21:05
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andrewfblack	GAN900: So is everything on t.m.o :)	21:06
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jacekowski	lcuk: it's just chromium from google	21:06
javispedro	GAN900: doesn't matter. it will be base for comparisons for the next year.	21:06
jacekowski	lcuk: with some mods to make it compile	21:06
lcuk	so jacekowski, its open source - and you put it in the closed source section of m.o	21:06
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lcuk	so now anyone who might want to download and tinker cannot	21:07
lcuk	that has bad mojo	21:07
jacekowski	i can move it to free	21:07
FIQ	hm	21:07
FIQ	no pr1.2...	21:07
jacekowski	but i would have to build proper source package	21:07
lcuk	indeed you can	21:07
FIQ	what is happening actually?	21:07
jacekowski	and hack it a lot to build	21:07
lcuk	indeed you would	21:07
lcuk	but being in non-free is not correct	21:08
lcuk	is worse	21:08
FIQ	the 1.1.1 was released over 2 months ago	21:08
lcuk	is against license	21:08
jacekowski	non-free is for people too lazy to build proper package	21:08
lcuk	non-free is for non-free softawre	21:08
lcuk	free software should not be there	21:08
lcuk	lazyness is not a factor in this	21:08
jacekowski	there is some free software in non-free section	21:09
lcuk	please make a list if that is the case (with chromium at the top for now) and they can all be cleaned up then.	21:10
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jacekowski	well it's BSD Licensed	21:11
mgedmin	wait, what? chromium for n900?	21:11
jacekowski	so theoreticely i can relicense it to jacekowski license	21:11
jacekowski	and put it into non-free	21:12
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andrewfblack	jacekowski: I like the sound of that I should relicense all my themes to jacekowski License	21:12
jacekowski	mgedmin: yes	21:13
jacekowski	mgedmin: it's in http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/c/chromium/	21:14
jacekowski	mgedmin: but it's not in Packages	21:14
jacekowski	mgedmin: for some reason	21:14
jacekowski	and i don't know what i've done wrong	21:14
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MohammadAG	jacekowski, looks like packages is down	21:16
MohammadAG	The requested URL /packages/view/ could not be found on this server.	21:17
lcuk	jacekowski, you have removed the bsd attributation from it - effectively wiping out its history	21:17
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RST38h	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzbQjd_Oo4Q&feature=player_embedded	21:17
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javispedro	ah, they're battling over for the single ipad they brought in for a demo in public tv	21:21
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lcuk	jacekowski, if you had pushed the package and source up, perhaps others could assist you better	21:24
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RST38h	javispedro: obnoxious	21:25
Gadgetoid_mbp	Apple just invented multitasking	21:26
* javispedro bangs head repeteadly		21:26
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Gadgetoid_mbp	Next: The wheel	21:26
* MohammadAG wonders		21:26
MohammadAG	if a package source was edited	21:26
* ioeee salud o/		21:26
MohammadAG	can I upload the package built into extras-devel non-free?	21:27
MohammadAG	even if it's free?	21:27
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lcuk	MohammadAG, you could until someone who cares speaks up	21:28
lcuk	normally it would be the proper maintainer	21:28
lcuk	if you are replacing their package	21:28
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MohammadAG	lcuk, even if the package was never meant for maemo?	21:29
jacekowski	well, it's on jacekowski license now	21:29
jacekowski	and jacekowski license says	21:29
jacekowski	- i don't care	21:29
MohammadAG	s/meant/made/	21:29
infobot	MohammadAG meant: lcuk, even if the package was never made for maemo?	21:29
jacekowski	- code will be released when i'll have some time4	21:29
* MohammadAG uses jacekowski's license and uploads to extras-devel		21:29
lcuk	in that case jacekowski you best get looking at the guidelines for trademark stuff for third party implementors	21:30
lcuk	http://code.google.com/chromium/terms.html	21:30
jacekowski	i'm not sure if i can release build anyways	21:30
javispedro	the jacekowski license is incompatible with the bsd either way, my legal team says	21:31
lcuk	MohammadAG, well thats pretty much what jacekowski just did	21:31
jacekowski	javispedro: point 1 of jacekowski license	21:32
SpeedEvil	jacekowski licence is like GPL, but you also have the right to request the code written in hot-sauce?	21:32
lcuk	jacekowski, i have never spoken in this tone with anyone about open source before because ive not seen people do this kind of thing. many folks like chromium and would actively help you bring it to maemo	21:32
lcuk	but thats fro man open community thing	21:32
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SpeedEvil	see the dozens of ripoffs of mplayer and ffmpeg code into non GPL stuff	21:33
* MohammadAG switches back to getting the app to compile		21:33
MohammadAG	I hate non-free	21:33
SpeedEvil	not to mention busybox/linux into every third router	21:33
lcuk	the package as it stands should not be in non-free - i know it was easier- but if you built the package yourself, we can most likely help the autobuilder to create it too	21:33
jacekowski	if you want i can post my ~/chrom/chromium... whatever	21:33
lcuk	SpeedEvil, speaking of ffmpeg - theres a binary inside jacekowski's package	21:33
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lcuk	which is lgpl	21:34
jacekowski	source of ffdshow is publicly avaliable	21:34
javispedro	the jacekowski license is incompatible with the gpl, my legal team also says >:)	21:34
MohammadAG	jacekowski, is chromium in the repos (app manager)?	21:35
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MohammadAG	ok, it's in the repos, is it in app manager?	21:35
bigbrovar	Hi guys I am having problem getting my N900 contacts synced with google contacts. If I delete my contacts on the n900 google contacts syncs fine (using mail for exchange) but if I were to edit the synced contacts (by merging dups enteries) I am unable to sync the result with google and I get server not responding error.	21:35
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javispedro	jacekowski: now seriously, if you can, you should really consider sending it to free. it will be better for you in the end and for us too (easier to reproduce). if you can't for some reason make it a sane source package, do not hesistate to post your doubts	21:38
jacekowski	seriously	21:38
jacekowski	i'll send it	21:38
javispedro	ok :)	21:38
jacekowski	but i have to diff it 1st to orignal source	21:38
Raafat	Hi all, I have submitted a proposal for Pocket Jeeves project in GSOC, can you please have a look on it and give me your feedback(s) ? thanks http://issuu.com/gsoc/docs/gsoc_proposal1	21:39
jacekowski	and make it nice	21:39
javispedro	the nice part isn't needed until version2 :)	21:39
javispedro	as someone told me when I was noob around here, "if it compiles and runs, ship it!" is the maemo way :)	21:39
lcuk	the nice part is bringing another open source giant to the platform, the code can be as messy and wiggly as it needs to be	21:40
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lcuk	actually javispedro pr1.2 proves that is not the case :)	21:40
jacekowski	at the moment only thing i can post is my huuuuuuge ~/chrom folder	21:40
jacekowski	that includes everything	21:40
lcuk	git diff	21:40
jacekowski	and it would take day to send on my 512k upload	21:41
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* javispedro looks at the time, tries to remove joggler stuff from his mind and tries to go back to work		21:41
Zahra	where is the mamo boot configs? I don't see anything on my /boot directiory	21:41
jacekowski	that's a problem - it's not on git	21:41
lcuk	ok, reextract the tar.gz and diff against that	21:41
jacekowski	i would end up with shitloads of binary files	21:42
jacekowski	in diff	21:42
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SpeedEvil_	Raafat: can't read on n900.	21:42
jacekowski	there is no rush	21:42
jacekowski	i spent 2 days builing it	21:42
lcuk	jacekowski, then why rush to get it in repository	21:42
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jacekowski	i'm not rushing it	21:43
jacekowski	i just want to know why it's not there	21:43
SpeedEvil_	Zahra: /etc	21:43
jacekowski	let me just ssh to work	21:44
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javispedro	Apple already breaking the dream	21:46
javispedro	they won't bring the "full" 4.0 to older devices	21:47
Zahra	SpeedEvil_: & which file in /etc have boot information?	21:47
SpeedEvil_	I bought apple today.	21:47
javispedro	(i'm sure someone in Nokia is making a sound of relief)	21:47
SpeedEvil_	Zahra: wht do you mean boot info?	21:47
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SpeedEvil_	(well, apples)	21:47
jacekowski	i've got an idea	21:47
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jacekowski	import orginal source into svn repository	21:47
jacekowski	and then import that huge file	21:48
PhonicUK	hey all, is the cpp-4.2 package just the compiler?	21:48
jacekowski	and then i can possibly diff it	21:48
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PhonicUK	and am i ok to remove it	21:48
RST38h	"...and then Apple is going to send all the iPhone users a special knife for cutting the usb connector hole in their iPhones."	21:48
jacekowski	huge folder *	21:48
Zahra	SpeedEvil_: boot configs, for example grub.conf in linux systems, I really don't know what's N900 bootloader	21:48
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SpeedEvil_	RST38h: I hear this knife is made by bledtek.	21:48
RST38h	iKnife	21:49
SpeedEvil_	Zahra: nolo? I don't think it's open, or has files like that.	21:49
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dmj726_n900	so when is the i****? getting expose?	21:50
Raafat	SpeedEvil_ : do you prefer a site to upload it ?	21:50
shvedsky	I request again (and for the last time, so sorry that I'm bugging you).	21:50
shvedsky	Will there be any reply to http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=600213&postcount=91	21:50
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Zahra	SpeedEvil_: ok, btw tnx	21:50
SpeedEvil_	Raafat: I simply mean I can't read it at the moment due to flash or ...	21:50
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Raafat	SpeedEvil_: I understand you, can I copy paste it in the private ?	21:51
SpeedEvil_	sure	21:52
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* javispedro loling at "Around 1996, when I had AOL users complaining that the articles on my website were "cut off at the bottom of the screen", and I had to explain scrollbars to them, I should have found another career, preferably one that involved frequent use of explosives and heavy earthmoving equipment."		21:52
* RST38h vividly remembers 1996		21:53
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RST38h	With alt.tasteless discussing various methods of torturing frogs, naturally switching to torturing the French, ending up torturing AOLers	21:54
RST38h	Unlike French or frogs, nobody really felt like defending AOLers.	21:54
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lcuk	RST38h, sounds not much different to now	21:55
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* lcuk did not get internet at home until 2000		21:55
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RST38h	lcuk: well, lemmings became smarter but more annoying since then	21:56
Veggen	lcuk: not dealiing with end users also rules.	21:56
RST38h	smarter being a relative term of course	21:56
lcuk	Veggen, ive dealt with end users since late 90s	21:56
Veggen	I have 1.5 million end users, but have only ever talked with one once, and that was mistake, I shouldn't have.	21:57
lcuk	in an industry built up of 90yo dears who know more about fabrics and sewing than computers	21:57
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* javispedro feels a urge to play lemmings		21:57
lcuk	and also small companies of people in first time businesses	21:57
lcuk	lol javispedro	21:57
toggles_w	i see the iphone made it to 1993, finally have multitasking, just like win3.1 when it was release in 93	21:58
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jacekowski	toggles_w: official software	21:59
lcuk	actually toggles_w its not multitasking as such, just the os has a few predefined threads that apps can hook into	21:59
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toggles_w	neither was 3.1, cooperative ;-)	21:59
lcuk	try multitasking something they dont want you to do!	21:59
jacekowski	toggles_w: with jailbreak you can have multitasking	21:59
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lcuk	but anyway	22:00
lcuk	im off, bbl maemo \o	22:00
toggles_w	cya lcuk	22:00
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dmj726_n900	I don't think people have any trouble with n900 task switching.	22:01
* ioeee resaluda o/		22:02
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SpeedEvil	dmj726_n900: I do	22:04
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dmj726_n900	More on my gsoc proposal: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48548	22:04
SpeedEvil	dmj726_n900: it's annoyingly slow	22:04
SpeedEvil	dmj726_n900: there is no way to do alt-tab	22:04
dmj726_n900	overclock ;)	22:04
* SpeedEvil really goes to sleep.		22:04
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Veggen	something feels not right when I have to jailbreak an OS to get it to do as I want.	22:04
dmj726_n900	alt tab would be nice actually.	22:04
dmj726_n900	Veggen: yeah...many here agree with that.	22:05
Veggen	<---isn't going to buy an iPhone, but I do know how slick it looks.	22:05
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MohammadAG	I'd rather go back to symbian than buy an iPhone	22:05
FIQ	well	22:06
FIQ	jailbreak is same idea as rooting (symbian)	22:06
ptl_demands_PR12	I'd rather not buy and iPhone than buy an iPhone	22:06
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MohammadAG	except it's easier on symbian	22:06
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FIQ	but well, it's easier to root a symbian device, and a symbian device has less limits unrooted	22:07
* dmj726_n900 would accept a free iphone.		22:07
dmj726_n900	They can be sold for money.	22:07
MohammadAG	if I got a free iPhone I'd donate it	22:07
* FIQ would as well - and sell it		22:07
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FIQ	:D	22:07
MohammadAG	and about 100 bucks because of the evil it carries	22:07
MohammadAG	ok, 100 is a lot	22:07
* MohammadAG takes back what he said		22:07
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dmj726_n900	since it's $100, and money is the root of all evil, the iphone's evil is over 9,000	22:09
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dmj726_n900	$100 = sqrt(iPhone.get_evil())	22:11
b-man\|laptop	http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/jobs-if-you-see-a-stylus-or-a-task-manager-they-blew-it/ LOLOLOL	22:12
RST38h	Hehe: http://www.alternet.org/rights/146273/ruling_ok%27s_tasering_pregnant_woman_three_times	22:12
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b-man\|laptop	i think apple's ego has just entered astronomical levels xD	22:13
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RST38h	b-man: So, el Jobso is basically repeating Microsoft's mistake of never exiting apps?	22:15
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SpeedEvil	This actually works - if you can enforce design.	22:16
RST38h	does not work	22:16
RST38h	you always end up with memory getting full	22:16
SpeedEvil	For example 'app must be able to start in x seconds from saved state'	22:16
RST38h	or alternatively you end up with apps exiting when they see fit, taking your work with them	22:17
RST38h	naaah, thsis saved state stuff never worked and probably never will	22:17
RST38h	although I guess they may have tried snapshotting the whole application, all the active memory pages, dumping them to disk for later unfreezing	22:18
mgedmin	worked quite well on PalmOS, actually...	22:18
b-man\|laptop	RST38h: you could say that xD	22:18
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RST38h	mgedmin: never worked neither on Symbian nor on WinMo	22:18
b-man\|laptop	mgedmin: Palm OS had a _very_ small footprint	22:18
mgedmin	for values of "work" not including applications like a "web browser"	22:18
RST38h	Was particularly obnoxious on WInMo (Symbian did provide an app manager)	22:19
SpeedEvil	mgedmin: I want that.	22:19
mgedmin	given the pain that is MicroB's back button I wonder how well that will work	22:19
* RST38h guesses PalmOS is different, as it was never really an OS		22:19
SpeedEvil	mgedmin: For firefox - or whatever - to be able to snapshot each tab to non-volatile storage	22:19
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dmj726_n900	...that's called the session manager.	22:20
Mece	hey, does anyone know if SDL_GetModState() reacts to the fn key in N900?	22:20
SpeedEvil	with _all_ the tab state in disk, not RAM	22:20
SpeedEvil	dmj726_n900: not quite	22:20
b-man\|laptop	RST38h: it was more of a microkernel with an application layer	22:20
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dmj726_n900	ah...you want everything.	22:20
SpeedEvil	dmj726_n900: you navigate from a tab, it saves the tab to disk, and deletes the in-ram copy	22:20
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SpeedEvil	dmj726_n900: it loads the - say - 5M of data back in .5s	22:20
dmj726_n900	ah...why would that be needed?	22:22
SpeedEvil	dmj726_n900: the assumption is that there is not enough RAM for 20 tabs	22:22
dmj726_n900	Okay, I can't see needing that many on a mobile device.	22:22
SpeedEvil	I often have 6 microb windows open	22:23
dmj726_n900	though I could find myself wrong.	22:23
dmj726_n900	so do I.	22:23
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Treibholz	WTF? everything is vertical now!	22:24
furunk3l	lcuk, that issue with the touchscreen just happened again. i removed the battery and i will wait for 10 minutes.	22:27
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lcuk	furunk3l, did it get better before on its own?	22:29
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furunk3l	yes, after some time	22:29
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furunk3l	i sometimes just rapidly touch the screen. and it was fixed.	22:30
lcuk	by leaving the device on, or turned off as i suggested	22:30
furunk3l	i just turned it off as you suggested	22:30
furunk3l	still waiting for the 10 minutes to pass ;)	22:30
lcuk	yeah but you threw more spanner in works by saying it cured itself eventually on its own	22:30
lcuk	or with brute force ;)	22:30
furunk3l	it always did after some time	22:31
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furunk3l	strange thing is, that a reboot did not fix it.	22:31
Treibholz	great, everything is vertical now. even my browser	22:31
Treibholz	but how do I get back?	22:31
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Treibholz	without killing my uptime	22:32
mgedmin	Treibholz, how did you go forward?	22:32
Treibholz	mgedmin: i just don't know....	22:32
Treibholz	I did something with the phone-app	22:33
mgedmin	i.o.w. triggered some bug	22:33
mgedmin	try starting the phone app (again) and exiting it normally	22:33
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Treibholz	ok, i got back with feedinf-it	22:34
b-man\|laptop	Treibholz: going for an uptime record, eh? :)	22:36
Treibholz	2 days!	22:36
Treibholz	that's the best I smartphone ever did here!	22:36
b-man\|laptop	the longest i've done is a week	22:36
Treibholz	(except a very old Blackberry)	22:36
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dmj726_n900	I generally can't get more than a couple weeks without accidentally draining the battery.	22:37
b-man\|laptop	dmj726_n900: had mine on a charger obviously xD	22:37
dmj726_n900	(not a single charge for me obviously)	22:38
DocScrutinizer	yay, 18 days on N900. Then rebooted due to some stupid app update requiring it	22:38
b-man\|laptop	dmj726_n900: idle?	22:38
DocScrutinizer	>300 days on 6210	22:38
Treibholz	DocScrutinizer: a 6210 is a phone!	22:38
dmj726_n900	...no...meaning I was charging about twice daily.	22:38
DocScrutinizer	yep	22:38
Treibholz	DocScrutinizer: you can't compare apples and pears!	22:39
b-man\|laptop	dmj726_n900: ah lol	22:39
DocScrutinizer	see? phones are better than smartphones ;-P	22:39
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dmj726_n900	my old phone had much better battery life...and a dead(ish?) microphone	22:39
furunk3l	lcuk, works again. but the phone settings like date and time are reset.	22:40
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lcuk	furunk3l, earlier on, you said the problem remained after rebooting	22:41
furunk3l	yes	22:41
lcuk	how often do you encounter it, and is it immediately after rebooting	22:41
lcuk	or just randomly at some point in the future will it occur	22:41
Treibholz	I just found out, that jingle works quite great between two n900	22:41
konttori	oh man. why did the hildon touchselector have to have different api than gtk treeview. <sigh>	22:41
furunk3l	i encounter it currently once a day. mostly after the phone was some time in standby	22:41
furunk3l	it happens more often when i listen to mp3s	22:41
lcuk	konttori, historical reasons no doubt	22:42
furunk3l	and when i reboot without taking the battery out, the error is still there after the reboot	22:42
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lcuk	ok furunk3l are you doing anything else with the phone - or notice when it doesnt occur	22:42
lcuk	ie, you say "once a day"	22:43
lcuk	does it not happen some days - ie when you arent listening to music or something	22:43
lcuk	damn	22:43
konttori	lcuk: yeah, probably for the philosophical idea of keeping gtk and hildon separate (while I never saw even the point of having hildon as a separate API at all)	22:43
lcuk	apt-get install new-lighter	22:43
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lcuk	konttori, when we finish our time machine, we will go back and right the wrongs in gtk :D	22:44
furunk3l	lcuk, it currently happens when the phone was on standby for a long time	22:44
lcuk	eiter that or just use qt from scratch :D	22:44
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konttori	lol, well, qt did it pretty right	22:44
lcuk	in some respects it did yeah. im tinkering with pyqt	22:45
furunk3l	like it takes some time to wake up the hildon stuff or the touchscreen.	22:45
lcuk	and i want it faster	22:45
lcuk	and using a better syntax ;)	22:45
lcuk	possibly like vb :D	22:45
jacekowski	X-Fade: how that builder work?	22:46
nze`	what does the n900 support when it comes to synchronising calendars/tasks? server/protocol wise	22:46
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jacekowski	i mean, what if i need library from extras-devel	22:48
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nze	is there only mail for exchange or syncevolution?	22:49
lcuk	konttori, so is the thing you are playing with ukmp2 ?	22:49
lcuk	or just getting comfortable	22:49
konttori	lcuk: no, I would never make ukmp on gtk. But, I'm making a functional video player. So, this time, function over form.	22:50
konttori	And then once I have function that I'm happy with, I'll resort to my usual form over function and start converting the app to qml/qtgraphicsview	22:51
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konttori	I would really like to switch already to qml, but, I think I'll finish the current implementation first, then publish it, then switch to qml. I really love qml. I see no reason to use anything else but either vanilla qt or qml.	22:53
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* konttori really isn't personally a big believer of the new s60 toolkit nor DUI toolkits.		22:54
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lcuk	konttori, the toolkits will help some people	22:55
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lcuk	but you are right, native simple implementations which just work well are always prefered and are the bread and butter	22:55
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lcuk	for round to ordering laser cut stand today :) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43593	22:56
lcuk	got round even	22:56
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silbo	enyone has a good idea for GSoC project?	22:58
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Khertan	Hello !	22:58
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Khertan	I'm trying to compile some c code for my n900 ... but it s running kinda slow ... as i'm clearly not an expert of c and gcc ... does there is some flags to optimize things a bit ?	23:00
MohammadAG	It depends on the CPU	23:00
lcuk	Khertan, slow to compile, or slow to run?	23:00
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MohammadAG	lcuk, since he asked about gcc, I'm assume to compile	23:01
lcuk	and theres some cheapish c flags, but it depends on whether your time is spent in your little loops or within a prebuild linked library	23:01
lcuk	yeah MohammadAG with khertan im never sure, but "c code for my n900"	23:01
lcuk	the for makes it tough	23:01
lcuk	and optimizing would slow down compilation ondevice	23:02
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lcuk	fastest compilation is unoptimised	23:02
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lcuk	mmm i wonder if that could be used to advantage for making test builds of qt c++ on device	23:02
lcuk	or if c++ is just that much slower it wouldnt make a diff	23:03
Khertan	lcuk: slow to run	23:04
lcuk	anyway, Khertan in my CFLAGS i use -O3	23:04
microlith	c++ puts a bigger burden on the preprocessor if templates are used, no?	23:04
lcuk	but it doesnt help without knowing where slowness is	23:04
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lcuk	microlith, it puts a bigger burdon on everything	23:04
MohammadAG	lcuk, lol I was wrong	23:04
SpeedEvil	someone needs to get distcc in extras-devel.	23:04
lcuk	its just much slower to build than flat c code	23:04
SpeedEvil	To enable compiling when plugged into wall.	23:04
SpeedEvil	cloud of n900s.	23:04
Khertan	yep ... the problem is that the n900 is border line	23:05
lcuk	SpeedEvil, i keep having a flash of something :)	23:05
Khertan	a bit too slow :)	23:05
lcuk	and it involves n810 too	23:05
lcuk	its fast enough for c building i think	23:05
SpeedEvil	lcuk: as long as it doesn't involve adobe.	23:05
lcuk	lol SpeedEvil of course	23:05
Khertan	lcuk: for building yep ... for running complex things less	23:05
lcuk	but i need to have my code running immediate on all waiting devices as soon as ive started build	23:06
lcuk	so it has to be done on all machines	23:06
lcuk	SpeedEvil, i keep wanting to run a micro web server with simplified source code feed - when i save project each device stops what its doing, downloads, compiles, runs and gets back to point it was at	23:07
SpeedEvil	:)	23:07
SpeedEvil	tcc	23:07
* SpeedEvil sighs.		23:07
lcuk	most likely	23:07
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SpeedEvil	So many projects.	23:07
SpeedEvil	I want to do a nice web proxy to reduce bandwidth.	23:07
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lcuk	SpeedEvil, i was sat building liqbase routinely on 810 for ages with this in mind	23:08
lcuk	web proxy doesnt interest me much because i dont use net often	23:08
lcuk	but around local zone	23:09
* Khertan is now trying to build opensonic for Maemo		23:09
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\|R	is it a known bug that with the browser in full screen if you let the device lock itself after the system delay you can't see the pin pad when it shows up, just the title?	23:10
lcuk	Khertan, oooo	23:11
Khertan	?	23:11
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Khertan	hum ... build was fast ...	23:11
Khertan	but s it s a bit too slow	23:11
Khertan	opensource next game :)	23:12
lcuk	speak with the gamers around	23:12
Khertan	i m browsing playdeb.net :)	23:12
* SpeedEvil plays lots of 'blocks'.		23:12
lcuk	javis and rst usually have good implementation ideas	23:13
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jonaskoe1ker	Hi all. I'm trying to add ~ to my osso-xterm bottom bar, as per http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35442 -- I fail; why? I'm saying gconftool-2 -t list --list-type string -s /apps/osso-xterm/keys "[bar,~,Tab,Escape,Page_Up,Page_Down]" and $thesame/key_labels "[\|,~,Tab,Esc,PgUp,PgDn]". When I press the ~ button, nothing happens. What gives?	23:29
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DocScrutinizer	probably it's tilde, not ~. Also it even might be nodeadkey-tilde or sth like that	23:32
grishnav	Anyone here use OpenVPN on their N900?	23:32
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peetah	grishnav: I do	23:34
jonaskoe1ker	DocScrutinizer: a similar amount of nothing happens for "tilde" and "nodeadkey-tilde"	23:34
jonaskoe1ker	DocScrutinizer: where did you get the nodeadkey-tilde name from?	23:34
jonaskoe1ker	DocScrutinizer: some X keysym list? A header file? A GNOME/osso/X/... header file?	23:35
grishnav	peetah: Have you tried to make it run on startup with any luck?	23:35
DocScrutinizer	I'm not at all sure about the correct name. Just wild guessing led me to the assumption it's one of the chars that aren't represented by themselves but rather by their name	23:35
peetah	I have no use for it on startup, but you have to create a script in /etc/event.d/	23:36
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jonaskoe1ker	DocScrutinizer: sure, that seems reasonable; what I'm most puzzled by: where did you grab the "nodeadkey-" part from?	23:36
DocScrutinizer	mere memory	23:36
jonaskoe1ker	ah	23:36
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peetah	have a look at /etc/event.d/ssh to have a template	23:37
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peetah	sorry it's /etc/event.d/sshd	23:37
DocScrutinizer	jonaskoe1ker: possibly I'm talking complete BS. Just an idea of the second, no backup by any hard facts or knowledge	23:38
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jonaskoe1ker	DocScrutinizer: ah okay. Well, thanks for offering it :)	23:38
peetah	basically, you remove what is between the pre-start script and end script	23:38
jacekowski	lcuk: and besides,	23:38
peetah	and replace what comes after exec by /etc/init.d/openvpn start	23:38
jacekowski	lcuk: i don't believe in community	23:38
jacekowski	lcuk: most community projects fail without corporate support	23:39
peetah	be sure to check the /etc/default/openvpn to be sure that it connects to the desired vpn	23:39
jonaskoe1ker	DocScrutinizer: gaaaah, I found it: asciitilde ^_^	23:39
grishnav	peetah: I don't see an /etc/event.d/sshd, just rc* scripts	23:40
DocScrutinizer	heh, so I've not been that wrong	23:40
jonaskoe1ker	DocScrutinizer: indeed you have not :)	23:40
grishnav	peetah: ah wait, wrong machine... damn screens	23:40
grishnav	peetah: ok, thanks	23:40
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SpeedEvil	Is there a way to strace the i2c bus? Is there a generic i2c-linux way?	23:41
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: i think there is module that dumps i2c traffic to dmesg	23:41
peetah	grishnav: np	23:41
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: there's I2Ctools	23:43
SpeedEvil	hmm	23:43
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: and there's strace ;-P	23:43
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: yes. I know - not quite what I was aiming at.	23:43
dmj726_n900	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGOZYGM5sOs	23:44
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: honestly I have no clue. I'd guess all I2C is via a generic kernel driver. You might implement some debugging to that one	23:44
dmj726_n900	page reader concept	23:44
SpeedEvil	k	23:45
Khertan	Youhou ! GnuGo Compiled	23:45
Khertan	now rest the UI	23:45
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SpeedEvil	dmj726_n900: neat	23:47
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: I have little energy to do creative stuff - more digging crap in garden today.	23:48
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Khertan	http://pastebin.com/wWvYzNxx <<< ouch a segfault on a compile	23:48
Khertan	huhu	23:48
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dmj726_n900	Do you think the video would be good in the proposal?	23:49
DocScrutinizer	Khertan: heh, compiler segfaults always are BIG fun	23:49
Khertan	DocScrutinizer: yep ... and ... this on something that are coming from a Armel debian package	23:50
SpeedEvil	dmj726_n900: link it - sure	23:50
Khertan	directly compiled on scratchbox	23:50
DocScrutinizer	Khertan: I reverted to things like redirecting compiler log to printer when I encountered such threat	23:50
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dmj726_n900	okay, wasn't sure the video would help or not.	23:51
SpeedEvil	dmj726_n900: It shoud of course also have a buisness card mode	23:51
dmj726_n900	business card mode?	23:51
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dmj726_n900	you mean to recognize business cards and add them to contacts.	23:51
SpeedEvil	to OCR them	23:51
SpeedEvil	that sort of thing, yes	23:51
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Khertan	raaahahaha why open sonic is so slow on my N900 !!!	23:54
jacekowski	how to remove something from non-free and resubmit is as free?	23:55
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Khertan	jacekowski: send a email to maemo dev mailing list	23:55
Khertan	be prepare to be blame	23:56
Khertan	and wait at list one month	23:56
MohammadAG	X-Fade, ping	23:56
PhonicUK	Has anyone successfully managed to use their PS3 controller with an N900 using sixaxis-support and sixpair?	23:56
Khertan	at lesat	23:56
Khertan	at least	23:56
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, here	23:56
PhonicUK	im having a spot of trouble, i've used sixpair to set it to use my N900s bluetooth address	23:56
PhonicUK	and ive got the sixaxis-support on my N900 with bluetooth on	23:57
PhonicUK	but i press the PS button on the controller and nothing happens	23:57
jacekowski	Khertan: any simpler way?	23:57
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MohammadAG	PhonicUK, do you have HID enabled?	23:57
Khertan	jacekowski: pray	23:57
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PhonicUK	on the N900?	23:57
MohammadAG	yep	23:57
PhonicUK	probably not, how do i do that?	23:57
MohammadAG	if yes, disable it	23:57
MohammadAG	guess not then	23:58
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: just increment the version number and check in to free under the 'new' name?	23:58
PhonicUK	how can i check>	23:58
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MohammadAG	PhonicUK, it's off by default, it should stay that way	23:58
PhonicUK	ok	23:58
Khertan	DocScrutinizer: yep but it seems to cause problems on the maemo.org/packages/ interface	23:58
Khertan	:)	23:58
MohammadAG	PhonicUK, cat /etc/bluetooth/main.conf	23:59
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MohammadAG	DisablePlugins = network,input,hal	23:59

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