IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-04-07

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JamieBennettStskeeps: without wanting to change the subject of this channel, do you know why/why not certain SD cards/USB sticks work with the joggler?00:01
Stskeepsnot sure, i haven't met one yet00:02
mecehey people who knows things about penguins, how do I open a remote file over ssh in gedit from commandline?00:02
mecessh:// or something?00:02
JamieBennettStskeeps: I have a 16GB SDHC card in a USB reader adapter but no luck :(00:03
StskeepsJamieBennett: does it show as USB mass storage?00:03
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JamieBennettStskeeps: where? (just got the joggler today)00:04
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StskeepsJamieBennett: well, USB reader adapter may appear as a mmc reader and not usb mass storage, which the EFI might not like00:04
mecenvrmind, got it.00:04
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JamieBennettStskeeps: UI is showing the 'USB' button lit in videos e.t.c and telling me 'no supported ...' are present on there so I would presume its seeing it but the telnet hack files I downloaded don't work. Do you have a link to something you use?00:06
StskeepsJamieBennett: ah, i have no idea about the original OS00:06
Stskeepsi pretty much just installed Mer on it when i got it or other distributions :P00:06
JamieBennettStskeeps: ah :)00:07
Stskeeps(it's first recently i really started hacking it, had it since december or so)00:07
* JamieBennett got it today via a £50 offer :)00:08
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nidOa £50 offer?00:08
JamieBennettnidO: The joggler is £50 in the UK for 2 weeks00:09
nidOits £50 anyway, and has been for ages00:09
Stskeepswas 99 before00:09
JamieBennettnidO: Umm, in the UK O2 are discounting it for 2 weeks 'only'00:09
nidOits been £49.99 for a while, I got one for my mum at the beginning of feb at that price00:10
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JamieBennettnidO: ah, I only saw it due to the promotion and though it would make a good 'hacking' device00:11
rm_youwow, joggler looks neat00:12
rm_youespecially if it would run Mer :P00:12
rm_youcept i would guess theres no chance of a US release or it working on US bands for my carrier :(00:12
Stskeepsnot mobile00:13
nidOtheres no bands00:13
nidOit hooks up to wifi00:13
JamieBennettrm_you: It runs Ubuntu Netbook which is far superior ;)00:13
nidOand isnt mobile00:13
rm_youoh, isn't O2 a cell provider?00:13
nidOyes00:13
rm_you...00:13
nidOjoggler isnt a cell device tho00:13
rm_youooo.... k....00:13
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rm_yourandom00:13
rm_youwhy is a cell company hawking a non cellular device?00:13
GAN900Hey, rm_you00:13
rm_youthat doesnt even make sense00:13
rm_yousup General00:13
JamieBennett600:14
nidOsame reason most companies sell more than one thing?00:14
JamieBennettdoh00:14
Stskeepsrm_you: services00:14
rm_youyes but bagel companies don't sell office furniture >_>00:14
rm_you>_>00:14
rm_you<_<00:14
GAN900rm_you, Ikea sells food.00:14
rm_youGAN900: srsly?00:14
rm_youlike, food court?00:14
GAN900They have restaurants, yeah00:14
rm_youor, they sell groceries?00:14
rm_youlol00:14
GAN900and frozen food00:15
GAN900both00:15
rm_youerk00:15
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rm_youok that makes no sense as well :P00:15
rm_youthen, wonder if i can get an O2 shipped here :P00:15
rm_youerr00:15
rm_youO2 Joggler00:15
GAN900eBay00:15
mecesome people think the iPad is a great. The world is just wrong that way.00:15
rm_youwish i could put Mer on iPad :P00:15
JamieBennettrm_you: The joggler can SMS and has an IMEI number, does that make it easier to understand why O2 did it?00:15
rm_youJamieBennett: errrrrr WHAT>00:16
rm_youhow does a non-cell device get an IMEI?:00:16
rm_youyes, though, it makes it easier if it has SMS built in00:16
rm_youthough00:16
JamieBennettIt has an IMEI00:16
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JamieBennettno voice but data00:16
rm_youhow does it SMS? i realize it can just go through a web gateway, but don't you need a phone number for other people to respond?00:16
rm_youoh00:16
GAN900rm_you's world is being shaken tonight00:16
rm_youso...it DOES have a cell chip?00:17
JamieBennettrm_you: yes00:17
rm_youSIM card?00:17
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rm_youok then...00:17
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JamieBennettno sim, build it00:17
rm_youmy previous statement:00:17
JamieBennettbuilt00:17
rm_you"cept i would guess theres no chance of a US release or it working on US bands for my carrier :("00:17
rm_yousoooo00:17
rm_youthat is accurate then00:17
Stskeepsno gsm chip00:17
Stskeepsi use it in poland too :P00:17
rm_youso it has a cell chip... that does data....00:17
rm_youbut... not on bands?00:18
rm_youwtf00:18
JamieBennett:)00:18
JamieBennettIt even has a telephone number that you can't ring :)00:18
rm_youhow does it connect to the cellular network00:18
meceStskeeps, are you polish?00:18
rm_youwithout being on a "band"00:18
* Jaffa assumed it was IP gatewayed00:18
Stskeepsmece: no, married to one00:18
rm_youbut while having a cellular chip00:18
meceStskeeps, :)00:18
* mece should go to poland again.00:19
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rm_youso you're telling me... you do not have to deal with a cellular network, but it gets cellular data and has a number somehow?00:20
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nidOno idea what anyone else is telling you as im semi afk, but it just sends messages through o2's web gateway00:20
nidOvia the wifi connection00:20
rm_youso does it or does it not have a cellular chip in it?00:21
nidOno00:21
rm_youbut it has an IMEI?00:21
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nidOnot that I know00:21
rm_youok.00:21
JamieBennettnidO: it has an IMEI00:21
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* JamieBennett goes to find out the links00:21
microlithwhy would a device with no cellular radio have an IMEI?00:22
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rm_youmicrolith: thats what i'm trying to comprehend00:22
rm_youfrom site: Get a 1/2 price Pay & Go Mobile Broadband dongle with the Joggler. Offer available at checkout00:22
rm_youmaybe it is with *that* it has an IMEI00:22
JamieBennettfirst link http://forum.o2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=19520&sid=e3531785b7c65296196f8fcc30e33a6600:22
rm_youand celldata00:22
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microlithwell in that case it'd be the dongle that has the IMEI00:23
microlithalthough I would like one of these Jogglers, especially at the price they were asking00:23
* lbt wonders if O2 *might* have a big system capable of accepting/sending SMSes and then sending them over IP to a client00:23
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Stskeepslbt: cell networks are over ip internally anyway i guess00:24
rm_youyeah, they are00:24
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rm_youi mean, you can email something like #######@tmomail.net and it sends to the ####### phone00:24
kynkyatm ?00:24
lbtyeah - I'm sure the joggler SMS is all done over client/server to O2 systems00:24
rm_youfor tmobile numbers00:24
rm_youit works for most other carriers too if you look up the right address00:25
rm_youOpenpeak looks interesting as well00:25
lbtno, you enter a mobile #  into the joggler sw client. It sends it to O2 and they send it to the phone00:25
lbtand you pay for that00:25
* Jaffa 's Joggler box lists an IMEI.00:26
lbtI'll guess they send the MAC during initial setup and get returned an IMEI00:26
microlithrm_you: now if only openpeak would sell directly, and not just via carriers :/00:26
JaffaNone on the device itself AFAICT00:26
lbtor it could be done pre-shipping Jaffa00:26
JamieBennettrm_you: O2 Joggler is rebranded OpenPeak00:26
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rm_youyeah, noticed on the forum, thats how i just found openpeak :P00:26
JamieBennett:)00:27
rm_youthis stuff looks AMAZING00:27
lbtJaffa: you like?00:27
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rm_youomg with Mer or MeeGo on it....00:27
* rm_you drools00:27
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Jaffalbt: shiny, but will be nicer with as polished, but more open, OS00:27
rm_youLOL their pic of someone holding the OpenTablet is SOOOOOO badly photoshopped00:28
lbtJaffa: heh00:28
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rm_youhttp://www.openpeak.com/images/OpenTablet/OpenTablet7Hands_593x428.jpg00:28
rm_youlook at the right hand00:29
rm_yourofl00:29
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rm_younot to mention the colors/resolution of the tablet itself00:29
rm_youthat's rediculous00:29
rm_youi could do better when i was in highschool00:29
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mecegimped! I can tell from the pixels!00:30
rm_youlol00:30
mece:)00:30
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rm_youthats not to say i don't WTF want one00:31
rm_youbut :P00:31
lbtheh, looks like someone got confused by the table's cross-beam00:31
lbtwell, night all00:31
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* w00t_ has sexy, smooth list scrolling now, and is happy00:40
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SpeedEvil1how?00:42
w00t_SpeedEvil1: what do you mean? :p00:44
SpeedEvil1oh00:44
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SpeedEvilhttp://laughingsquid.com/a-2-5-year-old-uses-an-ipad-for-the-first-time/00:54
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tremnite all, sweet dreams01:09
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w00t_noobmonk3y: try QtCore.Qt or something like that01:13
w00t_btw01:13
noobmonk3yw00t_, thankee, will try it now :D01:13
MohammadAGoh noobmonk3y's back01:13
MohammadAGo/01:13
noobmonk3yhehe brb 2 mins01:14
w00t_SpeedEvil: you got scratchbox and/or facebook btw?01:14
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Pforceeye got ogre 1.7 build for n90001:19
SpeedEvilw00t_: no.01:19
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w00t_SpeedEvil: bah01:19
w00t_you're no fun01:19
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noobmonk3yw00t_,  module has no attribute WA_Maemo5ShowProgressIndicator when i try to call self.setAttribute(QtCore.WA_Maemo5ShowProgressIndicator, True)01:21
noobmonk3yshould i remove the self?01:21
dmj726_n9001ogre on maemo?01:21
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Pforceyup01:22
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: at OM we had no such problems, as OM the inc offered a 14day DOA warranty only. For Nokia or if I were Nokia, I'd actually implement a logger into NOLO and flasher to break a virtual seal wheh a non-signed kernel is flashed to the device01:22
dmj726_n9001gles 1.1?01:22
Pforcetrying to put this http://wiki.realxtend.org/index.php/Getting_Started_with_Naali01:22
Pforceon the device01:22
Pforcewe use ogre and qt for the ui01:23
Pforceyeah gles 101:23
Pforceseems that it needed libGLES_GM01:23
Pforceso i installed libgles1 and got that01:23
dmj726_n9001good to know we have ogre with 1.1 at the least.01:23
dmj726_n9001think you might package it?01:24
javispedroDocScrutinizer: the mere though of that worries me. a lot :)01:24
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Pforcehavent run nothing concreate yet01:24
Pforcedmj726_n9001: i dont really know how :)01:24
w00t_noobmonk3y: I'd assume it would be QtCore.Qt.WA_ ...01:24
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Pforcei get blank screen now, but the gles render system loads ok on ogre init01:24
Pforceand can show main window01:25
Pforceand nothing crashes :)01:25
Pforcei just cant get inworld due i dont see our ui01:25
Pforcewhich is another thing made with qt rendering to a image and we pass that to ogre to show01:25
Pforceso basically qt has paintEvents off01:25
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Pforcenot even bothered about that atm, would like to try login01:25
Pforceshame that SDKs arm cant run the ui01:27
Pforcewould be alot simpler to run there and try to debug01:27
Pforcethan copying to the machine01:27
Pforcei could build everything again in x86 but there is alot of deps01:27
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: me as well :-(( But those overclocking idiots seem to force things into that direction01:27
Pforceboost, poco, curl, pythonqt etc.01:28
Pforceand ogre the foremost01:28
rm_youOgre is built for n900?01:28
noobmonk3yw00t_, , getting there setAttribute(QtCore.Qt.WA_Maemo5ShowProgressIndicator, False) doesnt work, and self. ..... means MainWindow doesnt have that attribute, will play around with it in the morning :D01:28
Pforcewell, at least i built it :)01:29
rm_younice01:29
Pforcenot that hard tbh01:29
rm_youcan start porting my PyOgre app to n900 :P01:29
Pforcesome cmake modifications, googled a bit01:29
w00t_noobmonk3y: any class that inherits QWidget has it01:29
Pforcethis one guy had got pretty far but stopped for some reason01:29
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w00t_so if MainWindow is a QMainWindow (or QWidget or something) it'll work01:29
Pforcerm_you: no guarantee this shows anything, i get blank main window01:29
Pforcecould do some tests01:30
Pforcebut hopped to our big virtual world viewer project right away01:30
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, so the retailers had the warranty risk then :)01:30
noobmonk3yw00t_,  so in theory it should work with Main Window (self.centralwidget = QtGui.QWidget(MainWindow))01:30
noobmonk3y:P01:30
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yep. And I always wondered how anybody could want to become a retailer01:30
w00t_ask me tomorrow and I'll help you sort it I guess01:30
Pforceyour setting yourself as your central window01:31
* w00t_ is working (again) atm01:31
Pforcedoesent seem right :)01:31
Wizzuphttp://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/ I assume/hope kbdd also works with n900? :)01:31
ShadowJKYeah I want to use a kernel with connection tracking and other "harmless" stuff without voiding the warranty :/01:31
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noobmonk3ylol cheers w00t_  :D01:31
noobmonk3yoff to sleep, night alls :D01:31
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: a simple history in a reserved nand partition isn't that evil01:32
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ShadowJKmake the kernel flasher sha1sum the image, send that+imei and image for unknown kernels to nokia on flash? :P01:34
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ShadowJKthen they can datamine when/if lots of dead devices arrive01:34
DocScrutinizer no way. you need to be able to flash when offline01:34
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DocScrutinizerjust make the flasher write a uname -a plus md5 and a few other info to a logfile on a reserved partition, and sign the file01:36
DocScrutinizeractually let NOLO do that01:37
DocScrutinizerplus let kernel itself do that on 'tainted'01:38
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DocScrutinizerif you want to get fancy, store this info in modem's flash rather than main system NAND01:39
javispedroDocScrutinizer: shut up! there are nokia employees here >:)01:40
DocScrutinizerhrhrrrhrr01:40
SpeedEvilOr you just shake the phone on reception to see if the CPU has melted off the board, and is rattling round.01:40
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DocScrutinizerI'm *BAD* when I got to deal with idiocy01:40
SpeedEvilI don't think anyone wants to see people screwing their phones, and then returning them.01:41
Ken-YoungAre there known cases of the overclockers killing their phones?01:41
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SpeedEvilWell - unless it's for reasons other than overclocking.01:41
ShadowJKKen-Young, too early01:41
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SpeedEvilKen-Young: The datasheet seems to - for a part that seems analogous - say 20000 hours life at 600MHz01:41
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SpeedEvilKen-Young: At 900MHz - it might be plausible that the life might be 5000 hours.01:42
javispedrodidn't someone also mention the magical "ubifs corruption" keywords?01:42
ShadowJKlifetime drops in half for the 500 -> 600 overdrive iirc01:42
Ken-YoungSpeedEvil, But it probably depends on lots of things besides the chip itself.01:42
SpeedEvilKen-Young: actually probably not so much01:42
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SpeedEvilKen-Young: chip, and voltage are about it for that case. Thermal environment too.01:43
Ken-YoungSpeedEvil, Really? I would have thought the environment around the chip would greatly effect how hot the chip ran when overclocked.01:43
DocScrutinizervoltage current termal01:43
SpeedEvilKen-Young: it's not how it runs that is at issue.01:44
SpeedEvilKen-Young: It's internal wear in the chip caused by operation at higher frequency.01:44
SpeedEvilKen-Young: that over time results in an unstable chip.01:44
microlithis there a reason that an OMAP at 1GHz would last for a shorter time than an Intel at the same speed?01:45
DocScrutinizerit's like electrons corrode the chip01:45
Ken-YoungSpeedEvil, But it does just boil down (sorry) to how hot parts of the chip run, doesn't it?01:45
SpeedEvilKen-Young: no.01:45
SpeedEvilKen-Young: electromigration.01:45
Ken-YoungOh - I'm surrised to hear that.01:45
microlithlike manufacturing differences between intel and ti?01:45
Ken-Young(surprised)01:45
DocScrutinizermicrolith: that depends on a million details01:45
SpeedEvilKen-Young: yes - heat has an effect - but it's also crudely the electrons push atoms out of the way as they flow past them. In vey fine wire, this can cause problems over time.01:46
Ken-YoungSpeedEvil, So it's the voltage more than the temperature?01:46
DocScrutinizerchip general technology (like 35nm), actual geometry, technology, material...01:46
SpeedEvilThere are also other effects. For example, the issue might be temperature cycling.01:46
Ken-YoungI guess I'll remove my muffin fan, then.01:47
microlithsure01:47
DocScrutinizerKen-Young: it's the current/area01:47
DocScrutinizerKen-Young: think of the wires like pipes, the transistors like valves, and the current like water with sand01:48
SpeedEvilhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration is good01:49
DocScrutinizerbad analogy, but somewhat you get the large picture this way01:49
Ken-YoungSpeedEvil, DocScrutinizer  Thanks.   I was unaware that that was the issue.01:50
DocScrutinizeryw01:50
DocScrutinizerI wonder if I'll find my electrochromatography analogon there in wiki01:51
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DocScrutinizerotoh I don't probably care01:52
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DocScrutinizerI'd be more interested in a common chromosome of overclocker idiots XP01:53
DocScrutinizermight yield an attack vector01:53
DocScrutinizer(jk)01:54
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javispedroone thing I wonder is why each overclocking "achievement" is frontpage news for engadget and related sites01:55
DocScrutinizeras mentioned above, I can get bad mad on dealing with idiocy01:55
javispedroI'm pretty sure they don't overclock their $1500 macbooks01:55
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microlithIt's easy news, brings out the page views, and the forums make it easy to cite.01:56
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DocScrutinizerlet's do a math joggling: x = % of cpu clock on overall performance of a system. (wild guess: 30% - remaining 70% for mem-IO, gfx, etc pp), now if we overclock from 500MHz to a completely illusoric 1GHz, we obviously get an overall system performance gain of ~15%. No taking into account you usually neet at least a factor *1.75 to even notice any difference...02:00
DocScrutinizerneeD02:01
microlithmost people would probably get more responsiveness out of the changes in the transitions framerate thread02:01
microlithalthough I do wonder if my device would be stable with the 125MHz mode enabled...02:01
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SpeedEvilAnd the smmothness.02:02
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Pforcerm_you: i have rendering now, just logged into one of our servers02:03
rm_you:P woo02:03
Pforceseems to work :)02:03
Pforceill take a pic soon02:03
rm_younice02:04
rm_youhow is the render speed02:04
rm_you?02:04
rm_youcompared to like02:04
rm_youwell, anything else as long as you mention specs :P02:04
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Pforcewell its getting all the stuff from the network02:04
rm_youlike, FPS vs a desktop running the same prog02:04
Pforcemeshes, prims, textures etc02:04
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Pforcecant really say yet02:04
rm_youwifi?02:04
rm_youk02:04
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Pforceyeah02:04
Pforcequite heavy content server at that too02:04
rm_youcurious how well it renders the common open 3d engines02:04
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AakashPatelN900 have Nav yet?02:08
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AakashPatelin Ovi02:08
microlithnot yet02:08
microliththough there is Sygic02:09
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w00t_open poll: facebook client for maemo, what should I call it?02:10
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kynkymaebook ?02:11
Ken-Youngfacebrick?02:11
crashanddie_w00t_: mistake02:12
DocScrutinizerhehehehe02:12
w00t_facebrick is amusing02:12
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DocScrutinizermeestake02:12
w00t_MohammadAG: facebrick it is.02:12
w00t_Ken-Young++02:13
w00t_:P02:13
MohammadAGhahahaha02:13
MohammadAGLOL @ DocScrutinizer02:13
crashanddie_w00t_: no really, another facebook client is just a mistake02:13
crashanddie_w00t_: don't waste your time, get a real job02:13
brikthe one that's already there isn't very good tho02:14
jacekowskii'm building chrome02:14
jacekowskiproperly in scratchbox02:14
nidOsomeone should really package up that transitions.ini set of tweaks and add a basic ui and reset option so people can toy round with their transitions without having to post asking what "cp" does every 2 minutes02:14
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jacekowskinot using gentoo chroot02:15
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DocScrutinizerwell face and F*** are quite similar ;-P 4 letters each02:16
MohammadAGf***book?02:17
MohammadAGwould get some attention...02:17
DocScrutinizerYES02:17
MohammadAGw00t_, ^ :P02:17
w00t_haha02:17
brikfjesbok! give it a norwegian name02:18
dmj726_n9001bookface?02:18
brikbookworm02:18
MohammadAGkoobecaf02:18
DocScrutinizerfielsfras?02:18
kynkyfookbace02:18
brikthat sounds kinky, kynky :P02:19
MohammadAGlmao02:19
DocScrutinizerfacecrook02:19
ptl_demands_PR12lol02:19
brikmoocow02:19
MohammadAGmoobook02:19
brikhorseshit02:19
DocScrutinizerpacehook02:20
brikspekeskinke02:21
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kynkykoobecaf02:22
kynkydamn repeated! fail02:22
SpeedEvil_facelift02:22
dmj726_n9001cafekoob02:22
javispedrocan't believe nobody said lamebook yet02:22
DocScrutinizerهراء02:22
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kynkycookbeaf02:23
brikI suggested assbook!02:23
dmj726_n9001why is a facebook app needed?02:23
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SpeedEvil_chucknorrisbook02:23
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, BS02:23
MohammadAGLOL02:23
brikdmj726_n9001: for the people who want to check facebook without bothering with the website with the tiny links? :<02:24
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ptl_demands_PR12wow, hexxen II, nitdroid with touchscreen working, brain party... nice news02:24
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nidObrain party needs voting down tho02:24
DocScrutinizerdamn, does this guy ever get sober?02:25
dmj726_n9001what's wrong with brain party?02:25
nidOsome of the puzzles occasionally massively lag it down and pretty much freeze the device02:25
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DocScrutinizerbtw, what's with numptyphysics for N900?02:30
brikI failed at that :<02:30
dmj726_n9001numpy physics is great.02:31
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DocScrutinizerlast time I checked it was almost working, but lacking all of the stages, and had an issue with top systray bar02:32
Pforcehttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/3589544/realxtend-naali-N900.png02:32
Pforcethere we go, at least its something :)02:33
Pforcerm_you: ~10fps with that, so dont get your hopes up yet :)02:33
javispedrowith fullscreen you'll probably double that02:33
DocScrutinizererr?02:34
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javispedro(10 fps -> ~20fps)02:34
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DocScrutinizerno scaling/croping?02:34
ptl_demands_PR12Pforce: wow.02:34
javispedrowhile a window is fullscreen the compositor is disabled02:35
Pforcejavispedro: the qwidget that hold the ogre rendering should be full screen there02:35
DocScrutinizeryo compositor02:35
Pforceor do you mean to go all the way fullscreen02:35
Pforcedo i need a maemo window for that02:35
javispedroPforce: all the way. the toplevel window should be fullscreen.02:35
javispedroPforce: doubt it...02:35
Pforcejust did Maximise() to the top level qwidget02:36
Pforcebut yeah you might be right02:36
javispedroseeing the title bar is pretty specific symptom of a non fullscreen window ;P02:37
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DocScrutinizerand borked numptyphysics for N90002:43
MohammadAG~ping02:43
infobot~pong02:43
javispedroMohammadAG: seriously, there are better keepalives than keeping the poor bot entertained :)02:46
MohammadAGhaha, had some problems with my connection so I'm just checking lol02:46
* MohammadAG likes where Fennec is headed http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2010/04/firefox-mobile-1-1-whats-coming/02:46
haltdefmake it not painfully slow and I'm there02:46
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C-S-B-N900howdy.02:47
haltdefohi02:47
DocScrutinizernah02:48
DocScrutinizer~botsnack02:48
infobot:), DocScrutinizer02:48
DocScrutinizer~good bot02:48
infobotDocScrutinizer: aw, gee02:48
nidO~curse php02:48
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, php !02:48
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javispedroclearly, the long-term memory storage capacity for a typical blogger is less than 5 years03:06
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b-man|ubuntuhmm, 8 hours later and my fedora install is almost done lol03:11
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b-man|ubuntu~attack DocScrutinizer03:14
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing DocScrutinizer03:14
b-man|ubuntuxD03:14
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TuxprobeHi again, anyone knows how to launch a browser window with a specified URL? could be from commandline - but is to be implemented in Gtk application?03:33
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b-man|ubuntuAakashPatel: ping03:38
* MohammadAG is off03:39
MohammadAGNight people03:39
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AakashPatelb-man|ubuntu: yoyo03:44
DocScrutinizer-8Tuxprobe: dbus03:44
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b-man|ubuntuAakashPatel: what's up? :)03:49
Tuxprobedocscrutinizer-8 thx i found a description just now too :)03:49
AakashPatelb-man|ubuntu: Oh nothin really03:50
AakashPatelyou03:50
b-man|ubuntunothing completely new atm, setting up fedora on my N900 xD03:50
b-man|ubuntuattempting to make a cleaner port based off of Jebba's port03:51
b-man|ubuntukinda like ubuntu-n8x003:51
AakashPatelewwy03:51
AakashPatellol03:51
AakashPatelwhy03:51
b-man|ubuntubecause i can xD03:52
b-man|ubuntuand some people will enjoy it03:52
AakashPatelHah03:53
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acidjazzso whats goin on03:54
acidjazzwhena re we goin to #meego03:54
b-man|ubuntuAakashPatel: so how is your new job going?03:54
AakashPatelhavent started yet xD03:55
AakashPatelNext week03:55
b-man|ubuntuah xD03:55
b-man|ubuntu:)03:55
b-man|ubuntui'll bet it will be fun :)03:55
AakashPatelYeah :)03:56
b-man|ubuntubtw xnt14 is in Pakistan, but he'll be back on the 10th03:56
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b-man|ubuntuAakashPatel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko04:00
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b-man|ubuntui love that video xD04:00
AakashPatellolwtf04:00
AakashPatelhaha04:00
b-man|ubuntuxDDD04:00
b-man|ubuntu"Pad smoke - don't breath this!" xDDDD04:01
godrikhi guy. got a question for you about the GPS receiver in the N810.04:01
b-man|ubuntui don't have an N81004:02
godrikWhen I use maemo mapper, I don't get any fix at all. But when I use "nokia map", I got the fix almost immediatly04:02
dmj726_n9001a good use for that device.04:02
b-man|ubuntudmj726_n9001: Yes, Indeed! xD04:02
godrikis there a known issue about the n810 and maemo mapper ? Is there a way to "fix" maemo mapper ?04:03
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godrikor is there a better gps+mapping software ?04:03
AakashPatelb-man|ubuntu: N900 have nav yet?04:03
b-man|ubuntuyup04:04
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b-man|ubuntualthough i can't remember the name of the software off the top of my head04:04
AakashPatelErr04:04
AakashPatelI meant Ovi maps nav04:04
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b-man|ubuntuah04:05
b-man|ubuntuwell04:05
rasterburrp04:05
b-man|ubuntuit hasn't changed at all unfortunately \04:05
b-man|ubuntubut04:05
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b-man|ubuntuthere is some grally nice 3rd party nav software04:06
b-man|ubuntu*really04:06
AakashPatelcool04:06
b-man|ubuntubut i don't think it's free04:06
AakashPatelthats fine lol04:08
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b-man|ubuntuAakashPatel: http://www.sygic.com/index.php/en/press-releases/press-news/300.html04:10
b-man|ubuntu;)04:10
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AakashPatelnice!04:27
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ebzzryHi! Is /bin/bash provided by the bash3 package safe to be used as the default shell (via bash-setup)?05:30
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SpeedEvilno05:31
ebzzrySpeedEvil: Why?05:31
SpeedEvilThe startup scripts run as user object for some reason05:32
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SpeedEvilyou get a reboot loop05:32
SpeedEvilfrom memory05:32
ebzzrySpeedEvil: just to clarify, this is the `bash3' package, and not `bash'05:33
SpeedEvildunno05:34
SpeedEviltry it, you may need to reflash05:34
ebzzrySpeedEvil: OK05:34
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* GAN900 wants XChat to handle connection migrations better.06:08
SpeedEvil''06:09
SpeedEvilActually, I want it to work like that other client that I've forgotten the name of that has a two part UI and engine connected over the net06:10
SpeedEvilpegasus?06:10
SpeedEvilnaah06:10
SpeedEvilbegan with a p06:10
AakashPatelGAN900: Did anyone improve the UI yet?06:10
AakashPatelOf xchat06:11
SpeedEvilin what way?06:11
AakashPatelEh, just make it look a little better on the N900's screen06:12
AakashPatel /a little easier to navigate06:12
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SpeedEvilI find it quite easy06:16
SpeedEvilhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4498439421/06:16
SpeedEvilI've got it setup as06:16
GAN900AakashPatel, a little.06:16
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SpeedEvil(without the obvious banner)06:17
GAN900SpeedEvil, prefer the channel list on the bottom.06:17
SpeedEvilAnd with a few custom lists06:17
SpeedEvilFair enough, I don't06:17
AakashPatelAlright06:17
AakashPatelI'm out06:17
AakashPatelPeace doods06:17
SpeedEvilI'd prefer it if the left bar could be made actual fixed width though06:17
SpeedEviland the input box shrunk06:18
ptl_demands_PR12SpeedEvil: just use bnc with xchat then06:18
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SpeedEvilythen dccs don't work06:19
SpeedEvilAIUI06:20
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anotnacomg a site that actually knows nokia tablet history unlike the sites reporting about  new nokia tablet today http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2362333,00.asp06:58
crashanddieanotnac: except that they fail06:59
crashanddieanotnac: there has never been a device called the N77006:59
toresbeIt was a "Nokia 770", sure, but that's not the biggest failure in the world...06:59
anotnacone letter is better than missing out whole history and trying to make out nokia are only on tablet bandwagon b/c ipad07:00
anotnaclol07:00
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anotnacanyone ever listened to the ricky gervais show07:02
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anotnacgot to lol about googles childishness http://gerrymoth.co.uk/?p=7607:05
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tank-manwhat is google reader?07:12
* slackmagic w00ts! Got his n900 rma replacement in the mail today.07:12
slackmagichopefully fmtx works on this unit07:12
anotnaci think its like a rss feeder07:12
tank-manyea07:13
crashanddieanotnac: could've been worse, they could've used auto-translate, and made it "Door map"07:14
crashanddietank-man: RSS reader07:14
crashanddieanotnac: what ricky gervais show?07:15
crashanddieanotnac: also, don't feel like you have to post everything and anything you come across while browsing the web in this channel, thanks.07:16
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RST38h"After more than 4 years C is back at position number 1 in the TIOBE index. The scores for C have been pretty constant through the years, varying between the 15% and 20% market share for almost 10 years. So the main reason for C's number 1 position is not C's uprise, but the decline of its competitor Java. Java has a long-term downward trend."08:04
* RST38h laughs satanically08:04
RST38hInteresting that Delphi is still up there and going up. Is there even a supported compiler for Delphi?08:05
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slonopotamusRST38h: Does it go up in % or absolute numbers?08:09
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RST38hslono: %, afaik: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html08:11
crashanddieRST38h: and in enterprise?08:14
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crashanddie"Wikipedia and YouTube are used to calculate the ratings"08:15
slonopotamusRST38h: so, C increase (in %) could just be caused by shrinking of smth else in absolite numbers.08:15
slonopotamusi doubt ppl _suddenly_ started coding much more C than before08:16
crashanddieslonopotamus: you didn't even read RST38h's quote?08:16
crashanddieslonopotamus: he bloody said it... "So the main reason for C's number 1 position is not C's uprise, but the decline of its competitor Java. Java has a long-term downward trend."08:16
slonopotamushmm. yep08:17
* slonopotamus needs coffee08:17
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slonopotamuslet's all code C then? :)08:18
crashanddiewhy?08:18
crashanddieuse whatever suits you and your application's requirements08:18
slonopotamuswell, "The index can be used to check whether your programming skills are still up to date or to make a strategic decision about what programming language should be adopted when starting to build a new software system."08:19
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slonopotamusnm, it's just random numbers.08:21
crashanddieslonopotamus: that's a bollocks statement, really08:21
microlithRST38h: Delphi's managed to find its way into a somewhat supported status, there's also a CLR compiler for it apparently08:21
crashanddiemicrolith: and XSLT is categorised as a "programming language"08:21
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microlith?08:21
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microlithnow I realize why I gave up on Delphi, beyond the disaster at borland08:23
microliththe cheapest uncrippled version you can get is $90008:23
slonopotamusmicrolith: that's with IDE?08:25
microlithdelphi is nothing without its IDE08:25
microlithIt's never been available without one, at the very least08:26
slonopotamussame true for java, for ex. technically, you can write it in notepad, but that'll be a sad experience.08:26
microlithsure, you could write delphi in notepad as well08:26
microlithwouldn't envy anyone that tried08:26
luke-jrwhen I've written Java, I used Kate or Nano08:28
luke-jrI forget which08:28
luke-jrlast time I had to change a Visual Basic app I did it in Kate as well08:29
luke-jrwrote a simple Makefile to compile with WINE08:29
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slonopotamusluke-jr: it's doable. but you could be faster if IDE assisted you with stuff like error highlighting, autocomplete and automatic refactorings.08:30
luke-jryawn :)08:30
microlithI think the more important thing is that $900 is more than I am willing to spend to use a niche language08:30
microlitheven if I did get started with programming in it08:30
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luke-jryay for C08:31
slonopotamusmicrolith: well, you don't buy personal licenses, don't you? :)08:31
microlithslonopotamus: no, I'll use Free tools like GtkBuilder and Ruby :)08:31
microlithand, yes, C08:32
luke-jrGTK ftl08:32
slonopotamusluke-jr: btw, why you were against glib, i forgot? i find it very useful and easy to use. especially unicode stuff.08:32
luke-jrdon't know about Ruby, but I've decided to boycott it just to abandon the dependency08:32
slonopotamusand error reporting08:32
microlithluke-jr: I'm sure there are Qt bindings for it08:32
luke-jrslonopotamus: because it's slow, bloated, and part of GTK08:32
luke-jrmicrolith: but I have no need for it08:33
microlithso you have no need for a GUI?08:33
luke-jrno need for Ruby08:33
microlithvery well08:33
slonopotamusluke-jr: it isn't 'part of gtk'. it's gtk dependency08:33
luke-jrslonopotamus: glib : GTK :: Qt Core : Qt08:33
slonopotamusluke-jr: Qt is cpp, we're talking about C08:34
luke-jrQt is its own language08:34
luke-jrglib code is not C08:34
slonopotamusi start to think you never used glib08:34
luke-jrif glib were C, there would be no type 'gchar'08:34
RST38hReally?08:35
luke-jrwhen you begin replacing the standard library, you're making a new language08:35
slonopotamushehe. yep, their gxxx types is some madness08:35
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slingrwoohooo08:46
* simula hugs virtualbox08:47
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crashanddieluke-jr: not sure I agree with that argument08:53
crashanddieluke-jr: a bunch of libraries have implemented their own char classes (xerces does, but xerces is hardly a language on its own)08:53
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slonopotamuscrashanddie: why gchar?08:54
crashanddieI dunno08:55
slonopotamusi can understand why they have own boolean. but gchar/gint?08:56
slonopotamusglib even has own define for NULL :)08:57
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crashanddieslonopotamus: so?08:58
crashanddieslonopotamus: is NULL = 0? Or 0x0?08:58
* crashanddie facepalms08:58
crashanddiesorry, bad example, those are the same08:59
simulaheh08:59
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crashanddieslonopotamus: char makes a lot of sense actually. C-type char only supports 256 values, which is very much insufficient for UTF-809:00
crashanddieslonopotamus: example implementation of a char class: http://xerces.apache.org/xerces-c/apiDocs-3/XMLChar_8hpp-source.html09:00
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slonopotamus_crashanddie: NULL is what stddef.h said.09:01
crashanddiethe power of my arguments knocked you off the web09:01
crashanddie[16:00] <crashanddie> slonopotamus: char makes a lot of sense actually. C-type char only supports 256 values, which is very much insufficient for UTF-8 [16:00] <crashanddie> slonopotamus: example implementation of a char class: http://xerces.apache.org/xerces-c/apiDocs-3/XMLChar_8hpp-source.html09:02
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slonopotamus__...09:04
slonopotamus__bad coverage :(09:05
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* slonopotamus tries to remember how to kick slonopotamus09:05
crashanddiesecond time that my arguments knocked you out of interwebural orbit09:05
slonopotamuscrashanddie: :P09:06
crashanddieslonopotamus: /cs ghost ?09:06
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slonopotamusNickServ- You may not ghost yourself. :)09:08
crashanddiecock09:08
crashanddieI just added "slono" as the "External Reference" in one of my company's bug reports09:08
meceLOL09:09
crashanddieand Lotus Notes crashed09:11
crashanddieslonopotamus: bastard09:11
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Whimsical11!list09:24
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mecelist!09:26
Whimsical11list!09:27
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aspiditeswhat setting could possibly cause my volume to randomly fade out during phone calls without the ability to increase the volume?09:30
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Whimsical11list!09:31
aspiditesi have sent my phone to nokia twice, both times receiving it back in the same condition sent. they are now stating that (after flashing the firmware) that it is a problem in the settings, not my n90009:31
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Whimsical11Is this channel hosting any files/softwares for mobiles?09:33
meceaspidites, what is the problem?09:33
meceWhimsical11, no09:33
Whimsical11thanks mece09:33
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aspiditesmece: during a call, the volume fades out  and only seems to increase after squeezing the phone neer the ear piece09:39
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pillar__aspidites: they are playing with you09:39
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aspiditeshttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=606309:40
povbotBug 6063: voice calls inaudible most of the time, but not through speakers or earplugs09:40
aspiditeswhy is it so hard to get a replacement phone? or at the very least, have them fix my BROKEN phone...oops device that happens to be able to make calls09:40
meceaspidites. I had that at first. fixed in pr1.1 for me.09:41
mecego figure.09:41
aspiditesmece: i thought it was firmware originally which is why i waited for new firmware. no version has fixed it09:41
aspiditesthey just send me my phone back reflashed and stil broken09:41
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meceok. seems you have the hw problem then.09:42
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aspiditesmece: could you tell nokia that please?09:44
aspiditesapparently they are convinced it's a "setting"09:44
aspiditeshow many times do they want to flash my phone before they are convinced its not a setting?09:45
mecea setting they couldn't fix apparently.09:45
* aspidites done ranting09:45
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meceaspidites, flashing normally doesn't remove settings though.09:45
aspiditesmore like setting me off09:45
meceaspidites, settings are stored on the emmc09:45
aspiditesmece: how does flashing the emmc NOT remove settings?09:45
aspiditesi've flashed both numerous times09:45
meceaspidites, that does.09:45
aspidites:P09:46
meceaspidites, to which nokia have you sent it?09:46
aspiditesUS09:46
aspiditesPalco something or other09:46
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meceaspidites, I hear nokia us are dicks.09:47
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* pupnik pokes channel09:48
* mece tips his hat to pupnik09:49
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* ds3 throws dosboxes at pupnik09:49
aspiditesmece: funny because of all the people i spoke to, only one had a fine grasp of English. I imagine I get transfered to an outsourced call center every time09:49
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pupnikmorning mece.   wonder who is the first to fry a n900 with OCing :)09:49
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mecepupnik, I'm surprised no one has done it yet.09:52
pupnikthe mtbf of 50k at 600mhz is quite a lot of hours .  assuming 24k hours mtbf overclocked and 24h oc'd use per week yields 20 years (1000 weeks)09:53
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mecepupnik, do we know that, or are we still talking about 3530 numbers?09:54
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pupniknot a known figure09:55
fqhuyhi , this is the output after I ran the start_xephyr.sh http://pastebin.com/AfG9wdby09:55
pupnikjust saying it would be 2 years at 2,40009:56
fqhuythe window is blank09:56
fqhuyI'm running maemo in Fedora 12, Selinux disabled09:56
fqhuyhttp://www.alphatek.info/2010/02/13/install-the-nokia-n900-maemo-5-sdk-on-fedora/ I have followed this article and succesfully installed Maemo SDK, scratchbox..09:57
pupnikdunno fqhuy - google the error msg09:58
pupnikmaybe someone else knows...09:58
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aspiditesnon-nokia related question: is anyone having problems with pygame + sound? i'm trying to port a game i'm working on but the soound just keeps 'popping'10:00
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pupnikperhaps play with uffer size.  check with oprofile to see if some thread is consuming too much cpu10:01
mecefqhuy, did you run af-sb-<something> start10:01
pupnikbuffer10:01
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fqhuymece: no, not yet10:02
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* pupnik eagerly awaits new gcc10:05
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slackmagicdamn am I relieved the fmtx is working on this replacement unit. Finally I get to fully enjoy the n90010:20
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mecewtf... has there been some big cleanup in the repos? libglibmm and libgtkmm are not there anymore...10:22
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RST38h"The house-sized battery can hold four megawatts of power for up to eight hours."10:31
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RST38hPresidio, Texas <== you know where to lay the explosives now10:31
RST38hActually, shorting it will probably work even better =)10:32
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ptl_demands_PR12Presidio?????10:42
* ptl_demands_PR12 is going to eat his sandwich soup10:44
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bleaderoh, we can't sync additional calendars in google calendar to n900 :(10:50
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Zeddyanyone figured out how to use the qt creator 2.0 to deploy directly onto the device without the use of madde11:07
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lcukzeddy is using scratchbox cheating?11:09
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Zeddyonce they get scratchbox to run in a windows enviroment i might think about using it again11:10
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Zeddythen again.. last time i used scratchbox the app looked fine while developing, after deploying and runinng on the n900 it was a total mess11:10
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noobmonk3yzeddy, using vmware it took me about 20 mins to get scratchbox in a windows environment, ish :D11:13
Zeddyyou mean by running ubuntu in vmware and running scratchbox in ubuntu?11:13
nidOtook me about 5 minutes to do the same with virtualbox :>11:14
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Zeddybut that doesn't change the fact that scratchbox lied to me11:15
Zeddyand i will hate it forever11:15
noobmonk3y:D11:15
noobmonk3yhehe11:16
noobmonk3yor in my case, just code on the device11:16
noobmonk3yalot less hassle11:16
Zeddywhat the hell11:16
noobmonk3y:D11:16
Zeddyyou cant be all that productive11:16
Zeddy:P11:16
noobmonk3ypyqt11:16
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nidOspeaking of which, healthcheck new version + testing = when? :D11:16
noobmonk3ylol ok its not the greatest app - but healthcheck is done in idle and on the device11:16
noobmonk3ynidO, - this morning :D11:16
noobmonk3yremoving apps, adding a loading bar11:17
Zeddybtw.. is it hard to create a background service for the device, which would listen to incomming messages and parse them?11:17
Zeddyand no im not thinking about creating something illegal.. :P11:17
nidOwhats actually in the apps section at the moment?11:17
noobmonk3ynidO, lists all apps on the device, but doesnt do anything else yet11:18
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noobmonk3yZeddy, daemon? - not tried but the parsing, and reading of messages is doable :D - DBUS can grab em11:18
lcuknoobmonk3y, how much does your app depend on non qt components, can it run on general linux or on windows even?11:18
noobmonk3ylcuk, all of the info boxes are maemo specific, the app itself loads up fine on windows - if i do not call those functions11:19
lcukcool11:19
noobmonk3ysome of it even works on linux lol11:19
lcukyeah :)11:19
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noobmonk3y:D :D11:19
Zeddyi have a feeling that nmake is running in cirkles11:19
Zeddyi keep seeing the same actions11:20
Zeddyand its been running for 15 minutes11:20
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* noobmonk3y wears again at tbhe lack of pyqt on tinterweb11:27
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noobmonk3yswears* tbhe*11:28
noobmonk3yomg11:28
noobmonk3yone day i promise i will learn to type :D11:28
d14:)11:29
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nidOnoobmonk3y - still looking for things to include into healthcheck?11:33
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noobmonk3yallways open to help and advice :D11:35
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nidOnot so much an actual health checking function, but altering hildon's transition settings does wonders for the smoothness of navigation - there's a thread containing a settings file someone's done, but its flooded with "wat does cp do" and similar from people wanting to use it - how about a function to replace /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini with a customised version, and the option to restore a backed-up copy of the default, and a11:37
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noobmonk3y:|? lol!11:37
nidOthat should be simple to code, only needs a couple of cp's and echoing the file via a ui to change it11:37
noobmonk3yno idea what you mean though? - the only transitions are between tabs?11:38
nidOnot transitions within healthcheck, within the entire hildon ui11:38
lcuknidO, theres an app for that!11:38
nidOas in, a button in healthcheck thats "click here to improve transitions loads" or something, then a "click here to restore transitions to defaults"11:38
nidOthat each just replace transitions.ini with a customised or the original version respectively11:39
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lcukhttp://maemo.org/packages/view/transitioncontrol/11:39
nidOthat's never gotten out of -devel though11:39
lcukonly thing it misses are restore buttons11:39
lcukahh wel :) at least the info is there and documented11:40
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noobmonk3ylol!!!11:40
noobmonk3ygot the loading bar loading, does nothing at sits there :P geeeeeeenius11:40
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fqhuyhi, anyone please help me. it took me half day, and I still cannot get Maemo SDK working on my Fedora 1211:44
fqhuyhttp://pastebin.com/THusz550 this is the eror11:44
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fqhuyplz plz plz11:44
* Arkenoi wonders if SElinux problem will ever be fixed11:45
fqhuyArkenoi: Selinux is disabled11:46
fqhuyhow can I develop software for maemo, if the SDK doesnt want me to install it11:47
Appiahtry starting the scratchbox first11:48
Appiah/scratchbox/start or something11:48
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fqhuyAppiah: /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start” you means this one ?11:49
Appiahumm11:49
fqhuyalready started with root permission11:49
Appiahdont have it ifront of me but its somewhere there /scratchbox/bin maybe11:49
Appiahthis was all in the docs..11:49
Appiah$ /scratchbox/login11:49
Appiahhttp://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5-0_installation/11:50
Appiahthere you go11:50
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MiXu-I'm using the Maemo SDK virtual machine image. I just run /usr/bin/scratchbox11:51
MiXu-or actually just 'scratchbox' because it's in path11:52
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MiXu-looks like it's a bash script though11:52
fqhuyAppiah: Fatal server error:11:53
fqhuyCannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running11:53
fqhuythat is the Error when I tried to start Xephyr11:53
Appiahfqhuy: did the scratchbox start?11:54
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fqhuyAppiah: how can I check it, I have run the command11:54
noobmonk3ylcuk, is there a sleep command in python? other then11:54
Appiah/scratchbox/login11:54
noobmonk3ybb = 'run-standalone.sh sleep 5'11:54
noobmonk3yb = os.popen(bb)11:54
noobmonk3yb.close()11:54
fqhuy/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start this one11:54
Appiahfqhuy: NO11:54
Appiah10:52 < Appiah> /scratchbox/login11:54
marmoutenoobmonk3y: time.sleep11:54
noobmonk3yyay thankee11:54
marmoutenoobmonk3y: os.popen is "evil" use the subprocess module (but use time.sleep here)11:55
noobmonk3y:D :D :D11:55
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fqhuyAppiah: according to the document, I have to start Xephyr first11:56
fqhuythen /login11:56
Appiahfqhuy: not the one I'm reading11:56
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Appiahfqhuy: and thats not how I've been starting it11:56
fqhuyStarting/shutting down the SDK UI, Appiah you mean this section ?11:56
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Appiahfqhuy: just try it ok?11:57
fqhuyno, not ok at all11:58
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fqhuyalready running11:58
AppiahUnder section 1. it says  /scratchbox/login11:58
AppiahUnder Section 211:58
AppiahXephyr11:58
Appiahwhich installer did you use?11:58
SpeedEvil_Is there a way of setting kernel cmdline other than flahs:11:59
SpeedEvil_?11:59
fqhuyAppiah: GUI installer11:59
fqhuyI have run it dozen times before I can get the SDK installed12:00
Appiaho_O12:00
AppiahWhat dist are you installing on?12:00
fqhuyFedora 1212:01
AppiahDid you logout/login after install of the SDK?12:01
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fqhuyAppiah: I even reboot system12:02
fqhuyGrlll ~X(12:02
Appiahand you got no errors installing?12:03
fqhuyAppiah: yep12:03
MiXu-fqhuy: Do you have /usr/bin/scratchbox ?12:04
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* DocScrutinizer moos furiously12:05
fqhuyMiXu-: no, I dont have it12:05
fqhuyI changed the location to /opt/scratchbox12:05
DocScrutinizer>>Poll: Do you think its possible to overclock the N900?!<<  WAAAAH, where's my LART12:05
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* nidO hefts his lart12:06
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: 1200MHz FTW!12:06
* DocScrutinizer constructs a railgun to shoot each and every overclocker with his own uberlightspeed N90012:07
* fqhuy crying now12:07
fqhuydont know why, but it;s working now with DISPLAY=312:08
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fqhuyI have started another Xephyr in DISPLAY 312:08
* X-Fade can't find the nice Omap3 frequency/voltage MTBF chart anymore :(12:08
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fqhuyAppiah: thanks12:08
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: use a church of scientology paper instead, where there's clearly prrved everything is possible if only >5% of the population believes in it12:09
MiXu-fqhuy: I have this script in /usr/bin that I use to start it: http://pastebin.com/2JdwZJ1h12:09
Appiahfqhuy: ah nice12:10
MiXu-Oh it works now. Never mind then :)12:10
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fqhuyAppiah: MiXu- I think all the article for Maemo SDK on F12 is a little bit outdate, because of the new installer script .12:11
alicemirrorhi to all, I'm new on this cannel. Enrico, Turin, IT12:12
alicemirror:D12:12
fqhuyI have to fix the script by myself12:12
SpeedEvilHello Mr It.12:12
DocScrutinizerNokia! in a mass poll 83% voted "it's possible to overclock the N900". NOW FIX THAT!12:13
* SpeedEvil creates a poll for 4+4=712:14
JaffaDocScrutinizer: That poll's just like brainstorm. Crowdsourced stupidity ;-)12:14
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nidOJaffa the problem is though most people who've voted yes have probably followed the instructions on how to do it like the sheep they are, without understanding what theyre doing12:17
nidOso theres a potential 500 timebomb n900's walking round that will be back to the forums crying sooner or later when their device dies12:17
X-FadeWait for the first one to melt his display because of running the cpu so hot :)12:17
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: are there any more detailed info from Nokia internal tests available, which possibly could put an end to this insanity?12:19
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Don't ask me. No idea.12:19
X-FadeBut I once saw this Ti doc when the android guys were doing the same overclocking.12:19
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: I ask you to ask the right people ;-D12:19
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: At the summit it was told that the voltage increase was the worst part, iirc.12:20
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noobmonk3y_nidO, to be fair with or without overclocking there will be wingers in the forum :P12:23
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nidOyes, but 500 more who we can already see will be back to whine because of their own messing with the device is 500 it'd be nice not to have12:24
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pupniki appreciate voluntary OC testers12:25
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noobmonk3y_:P12:25
pupnikbbl12:26
Appiahwhy do you need to overclock?12:26
noobmonk3y_is it me or is there no width and height settings for QtGui.QProgressDialog .... just seems to do what it wants :|12:26
noobmonk3y_Appiah, theres reasons for and against, i dont see the point, people people will always want to try new things, because they can12:26
noobmonk3y_cya pupnik12:26
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Appiahnoobmonk3y_: well ofcourse12:27
Appiahjust asking if there was a specific goal12:27
noobmonk3y_Some seem to say it makes the device smoother......12:27
noobmonk3y_meh12:27
nidOwell, people actually intelligent enough to do it themselves are geeky enough to just try it and see what happens12:28
MiXu-afaik a lot of the ui stickyness is due to swapping12:28
nidObut then all the people on the forum just following the instructions and who have no clue, are just "wauw free upgradez!" syndrome12:28
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nidO900 > 600 so must be good to overclock, rite12:28
nidOetc12:28
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Kurppa_Swapping is the main cause. Well, memory leaks and swapping.12:29
ptl_demands_PR12there were a lot of seemingly well thought, intelligent, informed comments on the overclocking thread in tmo.12:29
nidOthere are, but theyre interspersed with tons of "how duz flasher wurk" type posts as well12:30
ptl_demands_PR12so I don't think it's like that...12:30
nidOthese people will end up with bricked phones and no clue why.12:30
ptl_demands_PR12I haven't overclocked mine because... guess what? I am first waiting for PR1.2. :P12:30
ptl_demands_PR12after that, I will do it.12:30
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ptl_demands_PR12My N900 never gets warm with his current clock and also from the stats spends just too few time on 600 MHz.12:31
DocScrutinizerptl_demands_PR12: wellinformed compared to which scale?12:31
ptl_demands_PR12So it seems it has room for a few upclocks...12:32
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MiXu-mine does get warm on 600MHz12:32
X-FadeMTBF will shorten quite a bit. But then it is just a statistic. You might be the lucky one or not ;)12:33
ptl_demands_PR12DocScrutinizer: mostly insightful comments from people who consider things like heating up the CPU, time during high clocks and such. From the words and discourse, I can guess they have overclocking experience.12:33
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ptl_demands_PR12DocScrutinizer: but it's just a guess, an impression, I can't prove, and you should read the comments by yourself.12:33
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X-Fadeptl_demands_PR12: Heat and electronmigration are the killers iirc.12:34
nidOproblem is, they have the kiddy oc-ing experience that comes with modern motherboards and x86 cpu's with plenty of safeguards built in, and where the only significant factor in failure is heat, rather than electromigration12:34
DocScrutinizerptl_demands_PR12: I don't need this rant and gibberish and handwaving. I am EE with quite some decades of professional experience12:34
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ptl_demands_PR12nidO: those are good arguments while I was just trying to tell an impression from what I've read - not more than a few pages. Maybe you should tell them there.12:35
SpeedEvilMiXu-: The CPU does not - at 600MHz - use much power.12:35
dneary__hi12:36
MiXu-SpeedEvil: Yeah, I know. A lot of the heat probably comes from the battery and the display.12:36
SpeedEvil Battery - almost none12:37
SpeedEvildisplay + something is equal to CPU at 100% utilisation at 600MHz12:37
ptl_demands_PR12well, I am sort of lucky for PR1.2 delaying so much.12:37
ptl_demands_PR12at the time when it arrives, by the impression you give me, there will be dozens of cases of overclocking going bad12:38
SpeedEvilptl_demands_PR12: but...12:38
ptl_demands_PR12and I'll be able to read them on the forum and refrain from following the crowd :D12:38
SpeedEvilptl_demands_PR12: how many of these will be 'my n900 doesn't work, replace plz'12:38
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SpeedEviland how many will admit openly that they have been overcocking.12:39
_berto_overcocking ?12:39
ptl_demands_PR12good point...12:39
ptl_demands_PR12well, you've got to be really cocky for making you cellphone run 50% faster, _berto_12:39
SpeedEvilAnd further how many will ome back and post 'oops'12:39
RST38hSpeedEvil: as long as it gives the lemmings street credibility on tmo...12:39
DocScrutinizerptl_demands_PR12: you seem to never get it, no? There's no such thing like melting, and OC doesn't mean your device will '*POOOF*' - it's like it stops proper operation in special cases *a few weeks or months _after* you started OC12:40
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DocScrutinizereven if you finished doing that at that time12:40
RST38hSpeedEvil <-- seriously considers tmo forum members smart12:40
MiXu-I hope the first failed devices are heard from real soon, until everyone has oc'd their device.12:40
SpeedEvilSome TMO forum members are smart.12:40
nidOMiXu-: chances are they wont be12:40
MiXu-nidO: Yeah, as DocScrutinizer explained.12:41
RST38hSpeedEvil: Statistically insignificant "some" nowadays12:41
X-Fadedroid people were going through the same thing in Jan :)12:41
SpeedEvilMy contention is that it is so hard to read a - say - 45 page thread.12:41
RST38hXFade: Have they melted down by now?12:41
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X-FadeRST38h: Don't know, did not read through the also insanely long threads there ;)12:42
ptl_demands_PR12DocScrutinizer: yes, I understand, and it shortens the life of the components and such, which might take months, *but* if that is as bad as you say, one could hope that at least some cases would go bad in the beginning.12:42
DocScrutinizernope12:42
ptl_demands_PR12DocScrutinizer: there was also a joke, a subtle joke, about PR1.2 taking months to arrive...12:43
lcukptl_demands_PR12, most people who boost their processors are running speed check things and toys to "check if it works"  the equivilent of kicking the tyres12:43
SpeedEvilIt may be that in practice - all shipped processors will last for 12 years running 100% at 1GHz12:43
lcukits only once they *forget* they overclocked and have a random failure days/weeks down the line12:43
SpeedEvilAnd the worst you get is instability12:43
ptl_demands_PR12anyway12:44
SpeedEvilOr it might be that they will last 5000 hours at 900MHz 10% of the time12:44
SpeedEvilwe can't tell yet12:44
Pforcesome updates on my ogre n900 project :)12:44
Pforcehttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/3589544/realxtend-naali-N900-audi-world-1.png12:44
ptl_demands_PR12as soon as Meego is stable, Nokia is releasing their new device12:44
Pforcehttp://dl.dropbox.com/u/3589544/realxtend-naali-N900-audi-world-2.png12:44
ptl_demands_PR12so I don't have that much incentive to make my N900 have a long life12:44
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Pforceogre 1.7 with gles rendering system12:44
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ptl_demands_PR12maybe he's best being adventurous, living short and fast12:44
SpeedEvilptl_demands_PR12: Vote for all n900 users getting a free upgrade.12:45
ptl_demands_PR12s/he's/it's/12:45
infobotptl_demands_PR12 meant: maybe it's best being adventurous, living short and fast12:45
ptl_demands_PR12SpeedEvil: lol12:45
ptl_demands_PR12Pforce: seems nice, but what's this blank car? no textures?12:46
Pforceyes seems that its not loading the textures for that from the server12:46
ptl_demands_PR12Pforce: this is something like second life?12:46
Pforcethe content is all online12:46
ptl_demands_PR12oh12:46
Pforceyes, open source virtual worlds viewer12:46
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ptl_demands_PR12very cool!!!12:46
DocScrutinizer[2010-04-07 01:00:13] <DocScrutinizer> let's do a math joggling: x = % of cpu clock on overall performance of a system. (wild guess: 30% - remaining 70% for mem-IO, gfx, etc pp), now if we overclock from 500MHz to a completely illusoric 1GHz, we obviously get an overall system performance gain of ~15%. Now taking into account you usually need at least a factor *1.75 to even notice any difference.12:46
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SpeedEvilWell - ...12:47
SpeedEvilThat's somewhat wrong.12:47
lcukPforce, snowcrash multiverse?12:47
ptl_demands_PR12I've read that and I've read the response afterwards, DocScrutinizer12:47
Pforcethis all was loaded with wifi12:47
SpeedEvilAs some of the stuff - the12:47
SpeedEvil...12:47
ptl_demands_PR12it can be about responsiveness12:47
Pforceand that other guy is me on my desktop pc12:47
Pforceso not a bot :)12:47
ptl_demands_PR12but also crude speed, like e.g. playstation games12:47
Pforcelcuk: ?12:47
DocScrutinizerptl_demands_PR12: response?12:48
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: that for example - this isn't so much the case for scrolling12:48
lcukPforce, read snowcrash12:48
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: As an example.12:48
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Wander around /sys - and set the CPU to 450MHz12:48
ptl_demands_PR12DocScrutinizer: yeah, although nidO told responsiveness might be an issue related to swapping too.12:48
SpeedEvil(something like cpu_max_governor_frequency12:49
Pforcelcuk: still cant follow, you want me to google that i suppose12:49
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lcukPforce, the multiverse is a virtual world in the book :)12:49
Pforceright, came up on google12:49
Pforceheh12:49
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: there are cases where your device is just too slow, and with 1% better performance it's fast enough. Those cases are rare and for sure aren't the targeted goal of those OC idio... err ^w^w12:50
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Right.12:50
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: now set the device to 450. It's noticably less responsive12:50
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fluxdocscrutinizer, well, I don't think 30% raw cpu cycle rate is nothing to sneeze at (although I haven't OC'd)12:51
fluxand at those levels it could easily go over a boundary of say updating the display every two frames to updating it every frame12:51
noobmonk3y_yay qprogressdialog is almost working!12:51
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DocScrutinizerflux: for impressing the shit out of your similarly numbers-wanking friends it for sure helps a lot12:52
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fluxdocscrutinizer, well, the difference I mentioned can be very much be seen12:52
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fluxand can give the impression of much smoother interface12:53
fluxactually someone's been kind enough to provide a good example on that: http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html12:54
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DocScrutinizerflux: we (speedevil and me) just debated this crossing-the-border case 5 lines above. If the screen update is skipping frames due to system being 15% too slow, then it's better to lower the framerate by 15% rather than overclock the CPU by 100%12:54
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fluxdocscrutinizer, well, the way I think it likely works is that the drawing is bound to the refresh rate of the screen12:56
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fluxdocscrutinizer, so if you can't draw everything in one frame, it automatically drops to two frames (ie. 30 fps, not 60 fps)12:56
DocScrutinizerflux: actually AIUI that's NOT the way it works12:57
SpeedEvilI'm just saying it feels faster12:57
SpeedEvilslower12:57
SpeedEvilto me12:57
ZeddyAnyone here using Qt Mobility ?12:57
Zeddyif i understand correctly i have to use Qt 4.5 if i want to take advantage of the mobility Api12:58
Zeddyright?12:58
fluxdocscrutinizer, so currently random frames get thrown away? as I cannot see tearing when scrolling the application list.12:58
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DocScrutinizerIIRC the windowmanager rsp the rendering engine has its own framerate setting, which isn't even synced to display refresh rate. If there's no tearing then the rendering engine most probably is using double buffering13:01
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fluxatleast hildon-manager doesn't have its own timeout set when it issues the 'poll'. on average the time between polls is 30fps, so I guess something from X is telling it to continue.13:03
fluxagh, never mind, it does have a timeout :)13:03
DocScrutinizerflux: compare fts tests for arbitrary games or gfx rendering engines. The fps is from maybe 10fps to 200fps and still the refresh rate of your desktop PC display isn't changed13:03
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fluxdocscrutinizer, unless it does the sane thing and syncs on vblank?13:04
DocScrutinizerthere's usually no such thing like sync on vblank, except for double buffer switching13:05
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SpeedEvilWhich is largely irrelevant.13:05
* lcuk mutters something about pipelines and complexity13:05
SpeedEvilas the update rate when scrolling does not - IMO - approach 60Hz13:06
SpeedEvilfor essentially anything13:06
DocScrutinizerbut you might want to ask raster about such things, he's wizard extraordinaire for all sorts of GFX. Me just EE / hardware13:06
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* lcuk puts fps back in liqbase13:06
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Sceltpr1.2 out?13:07
SpeedEvilScelt: yes, but only to cool people.13:07
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lcukhas ptl_demands_PR12 changed his nick yet?13:07
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fluxglxgears atleast does this: 300 frames in 5.0 seconds13:07
nidOptl isnt cool though13:07
fluxbut I guess it's not representantive of modern games13:07
SceltSpeedEvil: damn13:07
lcukwell we know that nidO13:07
lcukhis nickname messes up my irc13:07
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fluxand it properly gets events from X instead of timeouting by itself13:08
lcukgears doesnt slow down for anything does it13:09
lcukive seen people quoting 1000s of fps for that on desktops13:09
fluxperhaps in the old times13:09
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fluxand infact it did do that for me too before saying sync-on-vblank-on-this-head13:09
DocScrutinizer/kickban *p*r*1*2*13:09
flux(I usually run in doublehead configuration and the v-blank-sync was set to that (absent) head)13:09
fluxbefore fixing that it ran at 4000+ fps13:10
lcukDocScrutinizer, your nick is similarly disruptive :p13:10
DocScrutinizertoo bad13:10
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nidOheh13:12
nidO6500fps with gears13:12
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fluxSauerbraten is perhaps more representantive, atleast it says to have an option 'sync to vblank'. but it is difficult to say what it does..13:15
flux(but atleast it definitely goes in one frame)13:15
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DocScrutinizerthe whole debate is moot - see: [2010-04-07 12:05:48] <SpeedEvil> Which is largely irrelevant. as the update rate when scrolling does not - IMO - approach 60Hz. for essentially anything13:23
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fluxbut it could approach, it seems to me my cpu usage is less than 35% when scrolling the app list :)13:24
fluxaren't there any tunables for that?13:24
DocScrutinizerno, as explained to you some lines above, the rendering engine has its own fps setting13:24
fluxI didn't see you explaining that the fps setting is not in a configuration file or that it's nokia proprietary without source code ;)13:25
DocScrutinizerfor E* e.g you even can set this framerate for scrolling, in the user settings13:25
DocScrutinizerflux: how surprising. I didn't state that13:25
DocScrutinizer(framerate) and it defaults to 10fps iirc. Probably for maemo you usually have similar config options, and no, I don't think those are 60fps by default13:29
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DocScrutinizerso claiming a overall system performance increase in rendering of 15% would cause a 100% increase in framerate is mere nonsense13:30
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jacekowskisizeof(int) == 4 on ARMEL target?13:30
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DocScrutinizerand nota bene it's not a proven fact you could even reach a 15% boost with overclocking. It might as well be as little as 5%13:33
fluxdocscrutinizer, hasn't that been found to be true for some workloads already?13:33
fluxsurprisingly few benchmarks seem to be around13:34
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DocScrutinizerflux: some workloads == math from cache, without any mem transfers? That's for sure not the same like rendering13:36
fluxapparently the sunspider javascript benchmark goes from 37 sec to 26 sec when clocking from 600 MHz to 90013:36
sejosomeone running the sdk on exherbo 86bit?13:36
sejo64bit13:36
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flux(I doubt javascript benchmarks run from cpu cache)13:37
corecodewhat about an osx compat layer?13:38
corecodeiphoneos13:38
corecodewhatever13:38
DocScrutinizerI feel like I know better use for my time than debating likelihood of guesses13:38
lcukDocScrutinizer, how did the initial notes about battery component come out13:39
DocScrutinizerlcuk: huh?13:39
corecodeif i overclock, i'd like to have my kernel maintain the high frequency for a maxium of 10 seconds per 30 seconds or so13:39
jacekowskicorecode: pointless13:39
jacekowskicorecode: kernel should mantain high frequency as long as it's required13:40
DocScrutinizerlcuk: you want to know when it was that me stated 'we *have* a bq27200 and a bq24150' here on IRC?13:40
noobmonk3y_hmmmm13:40
lcukDocScrutinizer, wasnt it you that was talking about alternative/open/other battery component13:40
fluxjacekowski, even if it is required by a stuck hildon-desktop applet taking 100% cpus for hours worth?13:40
noobmonk3y_if someone here has overclocked, would they mind doing me a favour please?13:40
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jacekowskiflux: so why just don't clock it at lower frequency all the time13:41
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corecodejacekowski: and kill the cpu?13:41
fluxjacekowski, maybe perhaps one prefers to use a user interface that responds quickly13:41
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jacekowskiyou need something to catch runaway processes13:42
fluxjacekowski, and such workloads require cpu only for a few seconds at a time13:42
noobmonk3y_lcuk,  - whole new h/c in extras devel - :D :D - me thinks i'm almost happy with this one ;)13:42
corecodeof course, high frequency is just for latency, not for number crunching13:42
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I asked for some decent sysnodes to handle these chips in a system conformant way13:42
jacekowskiflux: you need to remember that changing cpu frequency causes cache flush13:42
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DocScrutinizermainly in #meego iirc13:42
nidOnoobmonk3y_: gogo promote13:42
corecodeoh it does?13:42
jacekowskiyep13:42
fluxjacekowski, even if cache is flushed every 5 seconds I doubt it affects anything13:42
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noobmonk3y_nidO, - need some brains on it first ,few little niggles13:43
noobmonk3y_but v almost there13:43
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corecodeso also the switching to 250mhz?13:43
* nidO points at his13:43
* noobmonk3y_ grins13:43
* noobmonk3y_ freaks... football in 1 hour :(13:44
DocScrutinizerand I considered to start a thread on this, in maemo-devel ML. Alas I have no device ATM, so I could backup my ranting with some facts. And I don't like ranting that's not based on proper resaerch13:44
jacekowskicorecode: that's because processor doesn't really like changing frequency just like that13:44
noobmonk3y_DocScrutinizer, no device :(13:44
noobmonk3y_?13:44
fluxjacekowski, how much does the CPU have cache anyway? I imagine it is filled in a millisecond or (much) less13:44
corecodejacekowski: but switches to lower frequency happen all the time13:44
jacekowskicorecode: yes13:45
jacekowskicorecode: and that causes cache flush13:45
jacekowskicorecode: because it could corrupt data13:45
corecodeevery cache miss = energy spent fetching data from RAM13:45
corecodejacekowski: ok.13:45
jacekowskichances of that happening are slim13:45
corecodejacekowski: but that means limiting the high frequency to a fraction of total runtime shouldn't have a big impact13:45
TermanaDocScrutinizer: Out of interest, if, as you believe, overclocking was doing damage, why do you think no one on the Android side routinely overclocking their Droids (which uses the same SoC as the n900) and Nexus Ones have said anything about it?13:46
DocScrutinizerlcuk: anyway ShadowJK does a hell of a good job on digging into one of the both chips, the bq27200 battery gauge13:46
corecodewhat i'm say is, i wouldn't mind overclocking at all, provided that a runaway process doesn't turn my cpu into a radiator13:46
lcukDocScrutinizer, thats ok i mustv just muddled you up somehow13:46
jacekowskiTermana: it causes damage to battery life13:46
nidOTermana: probably for the same reason very little will surface with people damaging their n900's13:46
noobmonk3y_nidO, take a look and see what you think, if peeps are happy enough this evening i'll put it in testing :D13:47
DocScrutinizerTermana: the answer is in this chan backscroll. Please refer to that13:47
nidO"wtf nokia my device is dead u suxorz" is generally what comes out rather than "i screwed up my phone"13:47
corecodedoes frequency scaling also cause voltage scaling?13:47
DocScrutinizerprobably yes13:47
corecodeok13:47
jacekowskicorecode: i don't know how it's on nokia13:47
jacekowskibut in normal PCs - no13:48
TermanaOh this is hilarious, first all the naysayers like to believe it will degrade the CPU and then they change tactic to battery degredation. This is fun. Do you guys have pull strings as well?13:48
corecodejacekowski: well actually no13:48
corecodejacekowski: usually you would also drop the voltage when deccreasing the frequency13:48
corecodejacekowski: or not?13:48
jacekowskithere are limits on how low you can go13:48
corecodeTermana: +113:48
DocScrutinizeron OMAP it should be part of the SmartReflex magic (no - not all of SmartReflex is switched off by default)13:48
corecodeTermana: seems to be a quite conservative crowd here13:49
jacekowskiand when you drop voltage you risk that your cpu will reset13:49
nidOTermana: who'se changed "tactic"? ocing the chip will cause electromigration damage over time, thats just a fact13:49
corecodeTermana: lots of FUD13:49
DocScrutinizerlots if idiots13:49
corecodenidO: why?13:49
nidOwhat dyou mean "why"?13:49
jacekowskiTermana: overclocking generates more heat for starters13:49
nidOphysics is why.13:49
corecodewhy does a higher frequency cause electronmigration?13:50
corecodethat is wrong13:50
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jacekowskicorecode: it's just speeding it up13:50
corecodehigher temperature does13:50
DocScrutinizerno, that is right13:50
jacekowskidrasticaly13:50
DocScrutinizercorecode: nope13:50
corecodehave some scientific sources?13:50
DocScrutinizercorecode: you obviously have no idea whatsoever about electromigration13:50
SpeedEvilcorecode: Higher speed causes higher current.13:51
TermanaDocScrutinizer: Lots of idiots? This is coming from the guy who took a part in implementing the Glamo chip, something that has been accepted as a somewhat failure?13:51
corecodeSpeedEvil: higher voltage does13:51
SpeedEvilcorecode: higher current at a higher temperature causes it more too13:51
corecodeyes, yes13:51
SpeedEvilcorecode: electromigration and voltage have little to do with each other13:51
SpeedEvilcorecode: electromigration is a phenomenon in conductors.13:51
fqhuyhey, I need recommendation for choosing platform in maemo13:51
corecodewhy does higher frequency cause higher current?13:51
fqhuyshoud I choose "native" one, or QT ?13:52
DocScrutinizerTermana: beware. Now you start to get not only personal, but also are using incomplete facts. this might earn you things you don't appreciate13:52
jacekowskihttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration13:52
SpeedEvilcorecode: because it does. Each clock transistion involves charging or discharging parasitic capacitors in the circuit.13:52
fqhuyI have heard that in Maemo 6, the native platform will be changed to QT13:52
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SpeedEvilcorecode: frequency is - to a first order - proportional to current.13:52
nidOcode in qt13:52
fqhuyshould I start with QT from now on13:52
nidOthat's been the stance for a while13:52
corecodeSpeedEvil: yes, but the slopes are not steeper, but just happen more often, no?13:52
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DocScrutinizerTermana: and I'm not talking about putting "termara is gay" to chantopic >:-(13:53
TermanaDocScrutinizer: Oh and i suppose calling people idiots isn't personal?13:53
corecodejesus13:53
jacekowskicorecode: at that frequencies capacitaces start to matter13:53
SpeedEvilcorecode: A flow with ripples at 1200MHz is essentially the same as a constant flow in practice.13:53
corecodebreak it up13:53
SpeedEvilcorecode: as the ripples start to blur into one another13:54
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corecodefair enough13:54
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DocScrutinizerTermana: your completely flase assumption about my role in selecting glamo for sure qualifies *you* to the title 'idiot'13:55
SpeedEvilcorecode: anyway. The existing datasheet says that life is significantly affected (to 1/5th) if you use 500MHz or 600MHz13:55
corecodeDocScrutinizer: Termana: what is up with you?13:55
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* noobmonk3y_ is gonna go play fotty... w00p c-yall laters13:55
noobmonk3y_footy*13:55
corecodeSpeedEvil: so what does that mean?  one time 600MHz?  constant operation at 600 vs 500?13:56
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SpeedEvilcorecode: the manual states one time.13:56
SpeedEvilcorecode: this is clearly pessimistic13:56
corecodeyea13:57
SpeedEvilcorecode: but the exact mechanism is unclear.13:57
corecodepossibly they want to sell chips that have a higher nameplate rating13:57
SpeedEvilAnd indeed that's possible.13:57
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nidOim having dinner with a guy who works at arm tomorrow, i'll see if I can get any insider info on life expectancies ;)13:58
TermanaDocScrutinizer: So now your threatening me with a ban is that it? Getting a little pussy footed are we? Don't like it because you want to change your argument in the middle of a discussion. Not only that, but you state yourself, you have no proof, your only theorizing and yet you still continue to say your presenting facts.13:58
SpeedEvilIt's also possible they have found that the chip is in fact unreliable at higher speeds due to some technical issue.13:58
SpeedEvilAnd you don't know this till your device dies.13:58
corecodesure13:58
DocScrutinizerTermana: fuck you sir13:58
kirmapower-on-hours-rating of a phone I'm using rarely needs to go much over one year, or at least two years. and again, there are numerous applications where such short lifetime is completely unacceptable.13:58
corecodenow we have evidence that similar chips are being used at higher frequencies by other platforms13:58
SpeedEvilkirma: Indeed.13:59
SpeedEvilcorecode: there are a couple of speed grades.13:59
corecodeok13:59
X-FadeDocScrutinizer, Termana: Please stop this now.13:59
SpeedEvilcorecode: the one in the n900 is presumably not the higher rated one.13:59
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: ignore list did its job13:59
kirmaI hope stable overclocking doesn't reduce it to less than an year, though.13:59
corecodehowever i don't think that electromigration would play a significant role in those differences13:59
SpeedEvilcorecode: Why not?13:59
corecodeSpeedEvil: well the fab process probably is the same14:00
corecodeSpeedEvil: just testing puts them i different lots14:00
corecodelike desktop cpu manufacturing14:00
SpeedEvilcorecode: electromigration is proportional to current ^2. If you have a chip that can run at a lower voltage - the current at a given clock is reduced.14:00
corecodecheck for stable frequencies, increase yield14:00
RST38hAh! A war!14:01
corecodeah i see14:01
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SpeedEvilcorecode: And conversely - if you have a chip that requires a higher voltage to clock at - say - 720MHz - it may take it below an acceptable life threshold if actually clocked at 720.14:01
corecodeyou're saying if a chip needs a higher voltage to run at high speed X, then better classify it as low freq14:01
corecodeyes, yes14:01
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corecodei was assuming that all chips run with the same voltage at the same frequency14:02
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: actually electromigration has a threshold14:02
kirmaif voltage (OPP) is the same, and wattage increses at square of speed ratio, it'd seem reasonable that electromigration would be fourth power of it14:02
corecodeanyways, what i'm trying to feel out is14:02
SpeedEvilBasically yes. There are process variations that legitimately affect lifetime of the CPU at a given speed. There is also marketing. Working out which is which is for end-users impossible.14:02
lcukb/me thinks irc has gotten as mumbojumbo as tmo this morning :p14:02
lcuk-b14:03
corecodeconstant high frequency operation is clearly worse than constant low frequency operation14:03
SpeedEvilkirma: wattage is proportional to speed. (to a first order)14:03
kirmawhich would mean that clocking from 600 MHz to 950 MHz would, for instance, cut lifetime to 1/6.553614:03
SpeedEvilkirma: you really can't do that sort of sum unfortunately.14:03
corecodei'm trying to talk qualitatively14:03
SpeedEvilkirma: well - you can.14:03
corecodebecause we can't do it quantitatively14:04
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SpeedEvilkirma: but it requires information on the limiting rate step that only TI has14:04
corecodeso if life(low freq) > life(high freq)14:04
corecodecan we slip something in between14:04
kirmaSpeedEvil: as far as I remember it's squared... I've seen the equation in many places14:04
corecodeto get life(low freq) > life(occasional high freq) > life(high freq)14:04
SpeedEvilIt may be that this is complete bullshit, and any CPU clock speed at which it works, will continue to work for the normal lifetime of the chip. It may be that this is true for some fraction of devices. It may be true for no devices.14:05
DocScrutinizercorecode: as mentioned above, electromigration is not to be seen below a certain electron 'velocity' - it has a threshold. So crossing an unknown border may expose you to a jump from lifetime=infinite to lifetime<500h14:05
SpeedEvilcorecode: yeah - there is no data for that. Logically - the time at high speed must matter - I can't see a reason why 1s/day at 900MHz would be as bad as 1h/day14:05
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hrwmorning14:06
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SpeedEvilcorecode: But once you step out of the recommended operating region - it can be anything.14:06
kirmaI suspect the nasty part Nokia particularly doesn't like is permanent data corruption resulting from overly eager overclocking... like root filesystem corruption and application configuration corruption14:06
crashanddiegents, quick question14:06
SpeedEvilkirma: possibly.14:06
crashanddieyou know the lock code feature on the n900?14:06
SpeedEvilkirma: md5sum /14:06
Stskeepscrashanddie: 1234514:07
Stskeeps:P14:07
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: no.14:07
SpeedEviloh - and 12345 - yes.14:07
corecodeDocScrutinizer: yea, what's that function, really 'speed'?  or what else14:07
crashanddiewould it be possible to use a code from something else? Does anyone know if that part of the software is open/extensible?14:07
Stskeepscrashanddie: lock code is stored in CAL area, accessible in libcal-dev14:07
Stskeepsbut besides that, it's not open (UI)14:07
DocScrutinizercorecode: basically EV energy of the single electron14:07
SpeedEvilcorecode: you can never know unless you talk to the right guy at TI.14:07
kirmaSpeedEvil: I actually tried to measure stability of overclocking by fetching test tar.gz over wlan, decompressing it, and calculating sha1 checksum from that repeatedly14:07
kirmahaven't seen any problem yet14:08
DocScrutinizercorecode: it needs to kick a metal ion out of the crystal structure14:08
kirmano untar, just gzip -dc | openssl sha114:08
corecodeDocScrutinizer: okay, so that would be voltage, i.e. proportional to used op voltage, temperature14:08
SpeedEvilcorecode: The 'real' function might be percentage of time with line 'x' passing more than 700mA14:08
corecodeSpeedEvil: of course14:08
crashanddieStskeeps: shame14:08
DocScrutinizercorecode: current14:08
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corecodecurrent because of the amount of electrons?14:09
TermanaDocScrutinizer: Did you get my pm? If not I sent: "Ok, look I should probably appologize I was a bit harsh on the  personal attacks. Sorry14:09
DocScrutinizercurrent = voltage * clockfreq14:09
corecode13:09:15 < Termana> DocScrutinizer: Did you get my pm? If not I sent: "Ok, look  I should probably appologize I was a bit harsh on the   personal attacks. Sorry14:09
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TermanaAhh he put me on ignore did he? fair enough14:09
DocScrutinizercorecode: please stop spamming me with such quotes14:09
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corecodebut that's not the current in a conductor14:10
corecodeat least not the instantaneous current14:10
corecodebut the average14:10
corecodepossibly my physical picture of transistors operating is a bit off14:10
corecodebut in my world they charge or discharge (once) per clock cycle14:11
corecodeand then stabilize14:11
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corecodemore clock cycles = more charge/discharge cycles, but still no higher instantaneous current14:11
corecodeexcept for higher voltage14:12
corecodeof course14:12
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kirmaspeed of electromigration depends also on temperature, but it's much more challenging to start guessing what is the temperature of "hot spots" on silicon... ten, fifty or two hundred kelvins above ambient temperature?14:13
DocScrutinizercorecode: yep, you're probably right on tha one14:13
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DocScrutinizermostly14:13
corecodeand if memory serves, higher temperature = higher electron availability (or how it is called)14:14
corecodei.e. lower resistance (if i'm not wrong) = higher current14:14
corecode= more electrons flowing14:14
corecodeanyhow, what i'm trying to get at is, i guess temperature and duration of operation at high frequency probably both have a negative effect on life time14:15
DocScrutinizercorecode: but OMAP also has hardware 'SmartReflex' blocks that adjust volatges and curents of parts of the chip on a fits-for-the-operation-conditions base. So increasing clck might implicitly increase volage&|curent14:15
corecodeyes, that's what i'd suspect14:16
kirmaIn Black's equation, it'd matter what's the ratio of absolute temperatures between scenarios, not the difference itself... so, differences have to grow pretty big in regard of kelvins to matter in that regard14:16
corecodeso, operating only maximum 10 seconds per minute on high frequency is clearly better than operating 58 seconds in a minute14:16
Gadgetoid_mbpYay, "apt-get install --reinstall kernel kernel-flasher" fail!14:16
kirmaI think SmartReflex just reduces voltage and current, not increase it from default14:17
corecodei'd like to see a control in the kernel which lets me specify the fraction of time it may run the cpu at highest speed14:17
corecodethat means i'd get low latency14:17
DocScrutinizerkirma: please read the smartreflex datasheets and whitepapers on that14:18
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corecodebut also the benefit of not frying my cpu if there is a runaway process14:18
corecodenow for something completely different:14:18
Gadgetoid_mbpAny overclock seems to spam dmesg with: "WARNING: at /home/builder1/maemo-fremantle-armel-extras-devel/work/kernel-maemo-2.6.28/arch/arm/mach-omap2/clock34xx.c:443 omap3_noncore_dpll_set_rate+0x28c/0x2dc()"  using the testing kernel14:18
corecodewhat about an iphoneos compat layer14:18
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kirmaDocScrutinizer: interesting if it's the other way, but yes, I can't be sure.14:19
corecodecan't anybody publish patches to the OC kernel?  i only seem to see binaries14:19
wbswhat's the best place on maemo to look for the device model name (just to be used for generic info/stats)? in /proc/cpuinfo I find "Nokia RX-51 board", but is there any better source that would say explicitly "N900"?14:20
fluxcorecode, ask the binary publisher, they are bound by the GPL to give the source ;)14:20
kirmacorecode: I'm pretty surprised by the binary preference too... especially when the modified code is obviously under GPL14:20
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corecodewouldn't an iphoneos compat layer be a nice GSoC?14:20
kirmaRX-51 *is* N900 :)14:21
DocScrutinizerkirma: huh? sure14:21
DocScrutinizerahh, missed wbs' statement14:21
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wbskirma: ok, and that's the only place where I'd expect to find such info?14:23
Gadgetoid_mbpShit, my N900 just electromigrated!14:23
Stskeepsto another dimension?14:23
DocScrutinizeryep - lol14:23
SceltPR1.214:23
Sceltwhere it is?14:23
Sceltis it14:24
DocScrutinizerwas about to ask 'from USA to Canada?'14:24
Gadgetoid_mbpScelt: stop trolling all the people with a notification up on "1.2"14:24
kirmaelectromigration officials don't approve overclocking?14:24
SceltGadgetoid_mbp: you have one?14:24
nidOif anyone's set a highlight for 1.214:24
nidOthey deserve to be trolled mercilessly14:24
lcukGadgetoid_mbp, you have a highlight for pr1.2 ?14:24
corecodehaha14:24
SceltnidO: y should someone have higlight for pr1.2?14:24
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Gadgetoid_mbpI have one for 12, just in case any likely young ladies turn up... booya!14:25
nidOScelt: beats me, its Gadgetoid_mbp that said it14:25
X-FadeNow that is just wrong :)14:25
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lcuki have highlight for bacon still :)14:25
DocScrutinizernidO: I consider to set up an autoresponder for .*1.2.*14:25
corecodemm bacon14:25
SceltnidO: ;D14:25
Sceltwhere is konttori when we need him?14:26
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corecodeeverybody seems to be ignoring my iphoneos compat layer idea14:26
Stskeepscorecode: i think someone was working on corefoundation14:26
corecodeis that the graphical interface?14:27
Stskeepsno14:27
Stskeepsfurther down14:27
Gadgetoid_mbpI'm re-flashing my phone to stock as soon as I can figure out how, bits of the silicon keep electromigrating into my cup of tea14:27
corecodeah, an API compat layer?14:28
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mecewhoa. Boom! http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ef0_127032134414:29
mece:)14:29
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MohammadAGwhy is the PR1.2 thread still alive?14:29
* MohammadAG pings mods14:29
AppiahMohammadAG you want it dead?14:30
MohammadAGAppiah, it's fake, and users keep commenting14:30
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Appiahwhich one?14:30
Appiahhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49390 ?14:31
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MohammadAGAppiah, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=59872014:31
* TriztN900 keeps on hoping for a pr1.2 relase, but guess he should be more realistic and wait two or more weeks14:32
Appiahwow14:32
MohammadAGtwo threads?14:32
Appiahreally amazing how people can get so excited14:32
javispedrowtf14:32
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Stskeepslo andrewfblack14:32
javispedrohow many posts for a "pr1.2 false alarm"?14:32
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Appiahtwo different thread numbers14:33
javispedro100?14:33
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andrewfblackhey Stskeeps14:33
RST38hjavispedro: I am betting on 66614:33
javispedrohey, morning :)14:33
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* MohammadAG goes back into lurking14:33
andrewfblackjavispedro: if we had some moderators with global powers those posts would be gone14:33
MiXu-tmo hasn't worked for me in a long long time :/14:33
javispedroandrewfblack: I do believe in stronger moderation, but care has to be taken.14:34
nidOtmo does need more moderation of stupid dumb threads and posts14:34
corecodei have given up on tmo14:34
* andrewfblack tries not to go into rant mode again14:34
* javispedro does not want andrewfblack to go into rant mode, he also thinks more mods are needed :)14:34
Ken-YoungYes, tmo has become nearly ss.14:34
Ken-YoungYes, tmo has become nearly worthless.14:34
andrewfblackjavispedro: not rant mode at you sorry just in general14:34
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* RST38h believes into multitiered user privileges where newbie users have a limit of 3 comments per day and 1 new thread per week14:35
* mece wants OT threads away from "active topics" list.14:36
TriztN900MohammadAG: how's your MeeGo?14:36
DocScrutinizerRST38h: good idea14:36
meceand idiot threads moved to OT asap.14:36
* RST38h also believes into corporal punishment though, so take his advice with caution14:36
RST38hmece: The definition of an "idiot thread" is subjective14:36
MohammadAGTriztN900, uninstalled it, i'll chroot it later14:36
andrewfblackjavispedro: if you read my latest blog post on my idea on tmo moderation you will see I were I want a organized moderation staff with regular moderators reporting to global moderators so mods have some moderation also14:36
meceRST38h, well idiot threads are OT threads that are not in OT14:36
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: add to that a feature to close threads on public request of a number of higher priorized users14:37
RST38hjavispedro: Actually, the LAST thing tmo needs is more mods with god complex14:37
javispedroandrewfblack: yes, I did yesterdary. 20 is quite a lot14:37
andrewfblackmece: idiot thread should be deleted or moved to a new section just for idiot threads14:37
MohammadAGRST38h, more mods with no complex then :p14:37
RST38hjavispedro: the lemmings are bad enough, I have no idea what lemmings with mod privileges will do14:37
andrewfblackjavispedro: it really is less then double of what we have now14:37
RST38hMohammadAG: Real difficult to find, almost impossible to achieve with large mods count14:37
lcukall we need are moderation thresholds and stuff14:38
MohammadAGhow many mods are there?14:38
javispedroRST38h: that's the "care has to be taken part". Also, if we select a few of the "enlightened crew" as mods, only thing will happen is more "you loozers nokia conspirators"14:38
TriztN900MohammadAG: when would you expect they get so far that it has something motre than xtem? around the release of nokias tablet?14:38
RST38hMohammadAG: In fact, hard limit on the number of comments/threads by newbies will do a much better job than a bunch of mods14:38
corecodewhat about a mailing list instead14:38
corecodepeople are less likely to subscribe14:38
andrewfblackjavispedro: I figured that one certain sections having 2 mods, some having 1, and some mods having multiple sections14:38
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corecodeproblem solved14:38
RST38hjavispedro: I do not believe in enlightenment14:38
meceI don't mind "joke" threads as long as they are in OT. But it would be nice if OT threads were not listed in Active Topics14:38
MohammadAGRST38h, I'm a mod on another site, and we don't seem to have problems with our mods14:38
MiXu-mailing lists are evil14:38
RST38hjavispedro: But examples of people going crazy with privilege are far too many14:38
MohammadAGhow are mods picked anyways?14:39
nidORST38h: not neccesarily - it only takes one idiot new poster to post a "pr12 is hea!" thread and the ball's rolling, regardless of whether he posts any more14:39
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MohammadAGTriztN900, no idea, not sure if you can ask in #MeeGo14:39
javispedroRST38h: still, I prefer crazy privileged bastard dictators with similar views as mines instead of chaos </egotistical PoV> :)14:39
RST38hnid0: Actually, no14:39
RST38hnid0: Once lemmings waste all their comment allowances, they will think better14:39
meceMohammadAG, they are chosen through discussion and volonteering.14:40
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RST38hjavispedro: life is a controlled chaos anyway14:40
nidOor register a new account.14:40
MohammadAGmece, no criteria?14:40
javispedromake them pay $1 to post! :)14:40
TriztN900MohammadAG: think I'll wait until you say it's useble14:40
meceMohammadAG, not really, no.14:40
MiXu-RST38h: I'd rephrase: "Life is an attempt to control chaos"14:40
RST38hjavispedro: And believe me, whoever you choose as mods, your views are likely to deviate in the next 3-6 months14:40
meceMohammadAG, to not be a douchebag is one I think.14:40
javispedroRST38h: that would be true even if I were to choose myself as a mod14:40
MohammadAGmece, so any user can volunteer and nothing is looked at?14:41
DocScrutinizerRST38h: (I do not believe in enlightenment) don't tell this to raster XP14:41
naxuvoting system?14:41
corecodeyea14:41
corecode+-14:41
naxuenough down votes and poster wont be able to post for some time14:42
Stskeepsi vote for slashdot moderation14:42
Stskeeps(0, Troll)14:42
Stskeeps:P14:42
MohammadAGwhen we picked mods for the site anyone who filled the form got a thread in the mod section along with a poll14:42
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naxuI quess slashdot mod style works ok14:43
andrewfblackMohammadAG: mods are picked really by Reggie there is some disscuion but in the ends it Reggie who picks14:43
nidOtbh whatever process is used is fine, the forum could just use more of them actively moderating the dumb stuff, and with oversight over each other14:44
DocScrutinizerMiXu-: rephrase: live *is* chaos14:44
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MohammadAGandrewfblack, thanks for telling me who the admin is, never seen posts by him :)14:45
andrewfblackMohammadAG: he is very quiet on site14:45
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andrewfblackMohammadAG: he really is a good guy but he Admins 5 or 6 sites and works14:46
javispedroyeah..14:46
MohammadAGoh :(14:46
ShadowJKStskeeps, well we've all seen how good slashdot is at silencing the idiots....14:46
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lcukregge closed the porn thread after 19 pages14:46
lcukreggie14:46
MohammadAGandrewfblack, no co-amins?14:47
SpeedEvilporn thread?14:47
MohammadAGadmins*14:47
SpeedEvilYou don't want porn thread.14:47
SpeedEvilYou want nice soft porn rope.14:47
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, "can we upload porn made using the N900 here"14:47
MohammadAGor something along the lines of that14:47
E0xhello14:47
andrewfblackMohammadAG: no we have 3 global modes 2 are not very into doing it and 1 has basicly given up14:47
javispedroso, to sum it up: better learn to share tmo with the ... uh, special people.14:48
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E0xi install ussd-widget from testing , and try to add it to the desktop but nothing appear in the desktop14:48
E0xanyidea ?14:48
SpeedEvilE0x: sometimes widgets appear under other widgets14:48
MohammadAGandrewfblack, 3-2-1= err 014:48
SpeedEvilE0x: also for some reason sometimes stuff appears on other desktops than the current14:48
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E0xSpeedEvil: i trough that and i look for it but nothing14:49
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SpeedEvilE0x: ?14:49
SpeedEviloh14:49
DocScrutinizerE0x: I seem to recall something in the .desktop file had to be fixed14:49
E0xi mean thought*14:49
E0xDocScrutinizer: hmm some link ?14:50
javispedroah, yet another nice, quality thrad.14:50
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DocScrutinizerE0x: sorry, I installed and patched USSD thingie some months ago, and I can't access it right now14:50
E0xnp14:51
E0xlet me google it14:51
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RST38hlcuk: Porn thread? What the hell was THAT about?14:52
javispedro"fixing tmo" is just a can of worms14:52
* SpeedEvil adds curry powder to javispedros can of worms.14:53
DocScrutinizertmo is a forum, means it's broken by design14:53
dreginlol14:53
lcukRST38h, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48336 *facepalm* was amusing actually14:53
javispedroMy personal theory is that you when administrating a board, you can choose between it being "nice, lovable, enjoyable" or "useful", but never both.14:54
RST38hHeh, Texrat went bonkers at the US bloggers14:54
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javispedroin fact there can be a certain balance between both extremes14:54
RST38hjavispedro: There is also "detached" and I suspect it is the only right thing14:54
Appiahoh lord...14:54
RST38hlcuk: Oh14:54
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: you have no choice though it will drive you insane on moderating it, unless you ignore it14:55
pupnikjavispedro: there is no fair way to exclude people from contributing stupid posts.  the forum is the product of its inputs14:55
RST38hjavispedro: But yes, after seeing that porn thread helpfully quoted by lcuk, I believe we have to set limits on the amount of shit new users can post14:55
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Appiahoffensive thread :D14:56
RST38hjavispedro: like level 1: 3 comments per day, no new threads14:56
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javispedro"detached" usually means that the board has a natural tendency to the "lovable" but not useful side14:56
RST38hjavispedro: level 2: 5 comments a day, 1 new thread a week14:56
pupnikit is quite typical of coders in irc to react to this in technocratic / tyrannical fashion, btw ;)14:56
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_llll_i think the best way, on irc and elsewhere is to enforce on-topicness but have a spearate place where people can take other conversations14:57
meceThat's what I've been saying.14:58
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mecebe quick to move threads to off topic area.14:58
DocScrutinizerthe problem isn't the amount of crap in tmo - the problem starts when you think there's something that's not crap14:58
_llll_cause, the downside is it requires active moderaters14:58
pupnikmy social engineering suggesxtion would be to place threads on frontpage based on number or ratio of recent posts, weighted by number of "thanks"14:58
javispedrothe problem is that _we_ (as in, the technocratic coders in irc) want to put something that we think is not crap in tmo14:58
SpeedEvil_llll_: not really.14:58
SpeedEvil_llll_: it requires posters with a clue to outweigh the content-free-brigade14:59
_llll_hehe, fair enugh.  i dont think you;ll ever get that on the internet14:59
pupnikhow about a "content" tag14:59
pupnikor a filter by number of thanks would do me fine for quick scanning a thread i guess15:00
andrewfblackwell I've had alot people say I shouldn't just be giving up and I shouldn't leave so here is my attempt to start something to change the way tmo works. http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/setup_new_talk_moderator_structure/15:00
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DocScrutinizerhow about starting *all* threads in OT area, and they may move to a meaningful topic area by vote of experienced users only15:00
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lcukhow about just ignoring threads you arent interested in15:01
E0xDocScrutinizer: i think i find the problem , i need install python15:01
GAN900DocScrutinizer, nearly all the big names in maemo.org started on itT15:01
DocScrutinizerE0x: yep, of course :-D15:01
GAN900DocScrutinizer, and it was a much more productive place before the N900 launch.15:01
E0xbut here at work everything is block15:01
E0xDocScrutinizer: is wired , not app-manager resolve the dependecies ?15:01
javispedrosince it seems we're brainstorming, I'd like to evolve _llll_'s idea: enforce stricter moderation in development (whatever code or art) subforums, keep the "light" moderation in general/device/offtopic forums which seem like a magnet for new users15:01
E0xlike apt-get do ?15:01
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E0xis wierd*15:02
DocScrutinizerE0x: dunno, should15:02
GAN900Unfortunately the masses of users that brought in generally aren't interested in being productive.15:02
MiXu-javispedro: Sounds smart to me15:02
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_llll_andrewfblack: leaving is quite extreme, but taking a steop back is good when the stress is getting bad - it's just software at the end of the day15:03
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javispedroandrewfblack: remember to create the brainstorm discussion page.. in tmo ;)15:04
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meceIt's not just you!  http://talk.maemo.org  looks down from here.15:07
Stskeepsandrewfblack++15:08
TermanaApparently t.m.o has left andrewfblack before andrewfblack could leave t.m.o15:09
javispedro:)15:09
X-FadeDoes anyone know if the Debian Policy specifies 80 char line lengths for control files etc?15:09
_llll_haha15:10
_llll_X-Fade: pretty sure there's a limit, no idea if it's 80 or 67 or what15:10
andrewfblackjavispedro: I did thanks15:10
javispedroX-Fade: actually no, since Homepage: or our own Bugtracker: can be larger than that15:10
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X-Fadejavispedro: And things like desciption or icon?15:10
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javispedroX-Fade: "Suggested"15:11
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_llll_you can use \ to break the line, i would think15:11
X-Fade_llll_: no, just break the line and continue on the next one with a space in front.15:11
javispedroyes for description, no for bugtracker :)15:11
RaafatHi, all. I have just submitted my proposal in GSOC for the Pocket Jeeves project, it is a big project so I suggested in the proposal that it is divided in two parts; one for the speech recognition part only building the framework/APIs needed, and the other part is for adding functionalities and UI for the project, is this an acceptable idea ?15:12
X-Fadejavispedro: Hehe no not there ;)15:12
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_llll_http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html i guess there's no limit15:13
javispedroincredibly enough, the spanish translation does say 80 column recomended, but the english one doesn't15:14
javispedroah no, I'm reading the maint-guide15:14
_llll_i guess with long lines eg description will look bad in lists15:14
X-FadeMost apps do adhere to it it seems, but for instance fmradio-player in diablo doesn't.15:14
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_llll_hence the break+space thing i guess15:15
javispedroX-Fade: if dpkg tools parse it, I'd apply the "be flexible in what you accept..." rule15:15
X-Fadejavispedro: Yeah, just need to set my limits higher it seems ;)15:16
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javispedroah, those pesky languages with dynamically allocated arrays :P15:16
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javispedroaha, tmo is back15:19
X-Fadelunch break ;)15:19
* javispedro goes open another pr1.2 thread under his evil pseudonym15:19
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andrewfblackjavispedro: nope still the new tmo not the old :)15:23
MohammadAGhahaha15:23
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Noobmonk3yMohammadAG, woooop! new hc in devel for ya :)15:24
andrewfblackwell I got a meeting, I guess now I'm going to have to start working at work since i don't read tmo all day lol15:24
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, type /ms read last15:24
Noobmonk3yinvalid message index, on the n900 if that makes a dif?15:25
MohammadAGxchat?15:25
Noobmonk3yyeah15:25
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MohammadAG/ms list then15:25
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Noobmonk3yoooo how do i read it!15:25
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Noobmonk3ygot it15:26
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MohammadAG-MemoServ- noobmonk3y has read your memo, which was sent at Apr 07 11:11:29 201015:26
Noobmonk3ylol!15:26
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG, i used scaling!15:26
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Noobmonk3yjust scaling max, not avail yet15:26
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MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, it says 600MHz15:27
* javispedro renames Maemo 5 downloads page to "Peter's Operating System 5.0"15:27
Noobmonk3ystartup screen work ok apart front the random font colours?15:27
MohammadAGon my 825MHz device15:27
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, i like it15:27
MohammadAGeven with the broken font15:27
Noobmonk3yyay! tis almost rdy for testing15:27
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Noobmonk3yshould be able to grep the scaling freq's and list em :)15:29
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, which file are you cat'ing?15:30
pupnikif the successor has better screen/battery life i am so buying15:30
Noobmonk3yscaling_max_freq at the mo15:30
meceMohammadAG, have you jumped on the overclocking bandwagon?15:30
Noobmonk3ybut can read the other one instead15:30
javispedropupnik: and if it has capacitive screen with no stylus, or no hw keyboard?15:30
MohammadAGmece, yep15:30
MohammadAGi know the risks :)15:31
meceMohammadAG, well, how is it?15:31
MohammadAGmece, much much snappier15:31
MohammadAGhaven't oc'd the dsp though15:31
lcukand warranty breakier15:31
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG, 's n900 now moos's on load :)15:31
meceMohammadAG, they say it doesn't do much.15:32
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MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, lol15:33
MohammadAGmece, actually it does15:33
Noobmonk3ylcuk, i'd assume people who do it, a) shold know how to turn it back= and b) probably dont care?15:33
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Nitialhaven't overclocked, but the underclocked 125 MHz step seems to be helping with battery life :)15:33
MohammadAGespecially with microB (rendering)15:33
Noobmonk3yNitial, good idea15:33
DocScrutinizerNoobmonk3y: there's no way to 'turn back' any damage done15:33
Nitialany ideas if that 125 could got to the official kernel/release?15:33
Noobmonk3yDocScrutinizer, hence b)15:34
SpeedEvilNitial: it's unstable15:34
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SpeedEvilNitial: for some devices15:34
MohammadAG  battery.reporting.current = 816  (0x330)  (int)15:34
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Nitialokay15:34
Noobmonk3y?15:34
Nitialhaven't noticed myself, so I guess I'm lucky15:35
SpeedEvilShadowJK: OK to point people at your script?15:35
MohammadAGtaken off the charger since 12:40 AM15:35
Noobmonk3ycool15:35
Noobmonk3ynow run joikuspot and watch you device burn!!15:35
meceMohammadAG, what time is it now?15:35
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MohammadAG3:3515:35
MohammadAGPM15:36
Noobmonk3yohhhhhhhh my god!15:36
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mecewhat have you been doing with your device then?15:36
Noobmonk3yi have just spotted and n900 in the wild!!15:36
mecewoow!15:36
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, true, damage done can't be reversed, but it can be stopped from going further15:36
mecedid you flash yours?15:36
crashanddieNoobmonk3y: and?15:36
Noobmonk3yand i'm going over to say hello!15:37
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Noobmonk3ybrb15:37
nidONoobmonk3y: is it your own?15:37
meceflash as in show, not reinstall15:37
MohammadAGmece, mine? yeah, with the custom kernel15:37
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mecesorry15:37
MohammadAGlol15:37
mecemeant noobmonk3y :)15:37
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MohammadAGnp15:37
Noobmonk3ynidO, and mid twenties cute woman :) may b a while, brbr15:37
nidOphoto plx15:37
* DocScrutinizer really wonders why all those people bought a N900 if they know for sure Nokia are all just morons nor knowing their job and not caring about delivering the best tradeoff between durability, standby time, and user experience to their customers. Hell if all those people are that much better on it than all the Nokia engineering staff, why did they bother to buy a Nokia hw then, rather than builkding their own?15:37
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nidOfor proof of the device, obviously.15:37
Noobmonk3ylmfao! shes gone :(15:38
crashanddieNoobmonk3y: stop lying15:38
meceDocScrutinizer, which people?15:38
Noobmonk3ywill hunt her down later15:38
javispedroDocScrutinizer: that is also my opinion. note that I also think that they can sometimes fsck off stuff (usb host comes to mind)15:38
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, hunt her down NOW15:38
Noobmonk3ycrashanddie, :(15:38
nidOhowd you spot an n900 from far enough away to not just say hi straight off?15:38
javispedroDocScrutinizer: but to be fair to them that is probably more a political thing that engineering15:38
crashanddieNoobmonk3y: first of all, no girl has an n900, secondly, you're in #maemo, there's no way you'd go talk to a chick15:38
Noobmonk3yi'm eating lunch, not gonna run round butlins after her!15:39
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Noobmonk3ylooooooool!15:39
kirmaoverclocking N900 is something Nokia shouldn't encourage plainly because that would push the components beyond their manufacturer approved operating conditions...15:39
Noobmonk3ycrashanddie, did you see the vids from yesterdays meet?15:39
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MohammadAGoverclocking the N900 isn't done to show that nokia engineers aren't good15:39
crashanddieNoobmonk3y: i did not15:39
mecekirma, and they don't encourage it..15:39
MohammadAGwell at least from my pov15:39
kirmamay be dangerous or not, but I'd be really surprised if Nokia would sell devices overclocked, or even support the idea15:39
Noobmonk3ycan someone link the thread in here please? tis on tmo. crashanddie  2 woomen and 2 men.15:40
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crashanddiewoomen?15:40
MohammadAGkirma, half the life, half the price :p15:40
javispedrokirma: omap2420 was 330Mhz, but sold as 400Mhz15:40
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Noobmonk3y:)15:40
nidOplenty of manus sell overclocked devices of various kinds when theyre known to be stable and reliable at said overclock15:40
Noobmonk3ys/woomen/women15:40
MohammadAG/15:40
crashanddienidO: then they're not OVERclocked, are they?15:40
Noobmonk3ymeh15:40
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nidOcrashanddie, what else do you call something that's been overclocked if it's not overclocked?15:41
meceN00bmonk3y, I've seen one N900 in the real wild. Many at the university where I work.15:41
naxuyeah surely chip is overclocked if it is run faster than marketing material said..15:41
Noobmonk3ycool!!!15:41
crashanddienidO: clocked?15:41
kirmahow the university isn't "real wild"15:41
Noobmonk3ythat was my first seen in the wild15:41
nidOnvidia rates a gpu to x, graphics card manufacture sells the chip clocked to y, where y > x15:41
nidOwhat would you call it if that's not overclocked?15:41
crashanddieerhm15:42
mecenoobmonk3y, the real wild was the guy behind the bar at a black metal concert :D15:42
Noobmonk3ylol!!!!15:42
Noobmonk3yright football time, back when i'm knackered15:42
mecetoodles15:43
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mece729 packages upgraded, 251 newly installed, 99 to remove and 0 not upgraded.15:45
meceNeed to get 835MB of archives. After unpacking 524MB will be used.15:45
meceheh15:45
* javispedro ponders maemo.org free non-free definitions15:45
javispedroyet another can of worms15:45
meceindeed15:45
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* DocScrutinizer suggests to all OC-fanbois to open an improvement-ticket with a request to implement a mode switch to device settings, so user can set device to a 'do turbo, expect device breakage any time' mode. Then leave the datasheet reading heavy lifting to those who actually *have* all the datasheets, and should know about the special idiosyncrasies of their own hw design. Rather than experimenting without any clear idea about the implications15:53
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RST38hDocScrutinizer: ...and change all background colors to bloody RED!!!15:58
pupnikand use blinking text :P15:59
andre__I remember my Linux distro version a few years ago where the root account by default had a red wallpaper image with bombs15:59
inzAnd put an "under construction" -animation16:00
javispedroalso make it vibrate every few seconds16:00
DocScrutinizerandre__: it still has afaik ;-D16:00
javispedrofor enhanced realism16:00
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DocScrutinizerI think it's a valid request when user wants a maximum speed device and agrees on not caring about device stability and durability. But very sure it's Nokia who'd be the most knowledgable people to implement such a mode in a proper most effective way16:03
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DocScrutinizerfiddling with cpu max clock in a random maner for sure isn't the way to do this16:04
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javispedrosupersonic phone!16:05
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pupnikdont forget the recommendation from summit16:10
pupnikor the verbot16:10
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* cehteh rather wonders if it would make sense to have a 125mhz kernel, race to idle aside, when i play netradio i have about 40% cpu at 250Mhz and it stays active no deeper sleep state16:13
SpeedEvilyes16:14
SpeedEvilrace to idle only makes sense if you can actually hit idle ever16:14
SpeedEvilIf you're never in idle, then you want to be at the lowest frequency you can16:14
X-FadeProblem is that you can hear frequency switches when listening to audio.16:14
DocScrutinizerNokia could ship an 'app' in extras-devel, to crank up all the right dials in a consistent manner, to set device to a turbo mode, and they can get a 'EULA' you need to read on activating that mode, where it's clearly stated what - from an EE point of view - Nokia expects you're doing to your device and you agree to take full responsibility on any consecutive damage16:14
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cehtehwell dual core mobile cpus are on the horizon too :)16:15
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: ouch, that hurts16:15
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cehtehimo thats the way to go especially when they can be independently sleep (and maybe clocked)16:16
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: ;)16:16
Treibholzyou even hear multitasking, when listening to music...16:16
Treibholzwith a standard-kernel16:16
cehtehat least multicore is way better for low latency than any increase in cpu speed will give you16:16
DocScrutinizer(nokia turbo app) this could take a lot of momentum out of that OC madness16:17
nidOor put a lot more into it16:17
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DocScrutinizerfor sure not16:18
nidO"well if nokia release an app for that, even with a warning, it must be pretty safe, so lets go for it!"16:18
nidOetc.16:18
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DocScrutinizerwell, that doesn't bother naybody then16:18
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nidOuntil the forum ends up filled with "nokia software bricked my phone!oneone"16:19
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DocScrutinizeranswer: heh great. So it did exactly what it stated it will do XP16:19
cehtehcant be worse than now .. rootfs full :P16:19
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cehtehi bet you can throw a overclocked n900 higher when playing n900fly :o)16:20
cehtehcome one.. try it16:20
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mecewow, titan is really making overclocking the lazy man's hobby :D16:25
meceCan't wait to see reports of some fried N900's. Also makes me want to try it out.. :)16:26
DocScrutinizer"this is Nokia turbo app // YOU ARE ABOUT TO DAMAGE YOUR PHONE!! READ THIS WHOLE INFO! // you can a) abort and avoid losing your waranty, or select b) turbo mode: 15% boost in bogomips, 50% devices died after 300h operation in this mode, or c) super turbo: 25% boost, 50% lethal after 80h"16:26
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toggles_wDocScrutinizer: link to .deb?16:29
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* toggles_w ducks ;-)16:29
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zeqSurely the primary reason for the stock frequency is to keep costs reasonable. Procuring OMAP3's validated at higher clock speeds would be *much* more expensive. I would imagine devices out there have very varied upper limits within the range expected of the fabrication process, some will rapidly fail at higher frequencies, others won't have their life-span noticeably affected.16:46
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cehteh.. and the only way to find that out for a customer is to try it until it dies :)16:49
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cehtehwell stability issues and excessive heat may give a hint before it dies16:49
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: what's " CAL area"?16:53
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DocScrutinizerzeq: ack16:56
DocScrutinizercehteh: not really16:57
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mgedminDocScrutinizer, one of the builtin flash memory partitions containing system information, afaiu16:58
DocScrutinizercehteh: stability is one issue, wear/silicon deterioration is a separate one16:58
DocScrutinizermgedmin: thanks.16:58
mgedminhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=2046516:58
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: well they are somewhat (but not exactly) related, local hotspots on the silicon change resistance, make transistors act slower, but its also the heat which detoriates the chip over time17:00
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SpeedEvilHeat is one degrador.17:00
SpeedEvilIt is no thte only one17:00
cehtehyes .. i saied not exactly17:00
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cehtehcharge buildup and so on17:01
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hrwandrewfblack: good mail on devel ml17:01
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Guest71415cool :D ssh to phone irssi from phone17:08
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jacekowskichrome is just finishing to build17:09
jacekowski  LINK(target) out/Debug/chrome17:09
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crashanddieyou must be new here17:09
FireStorm?17:09
jacekowskiit's just matter of linker finishing it's job17:09
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jacekowskiand i have native maemo build17:09
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pupniki wish irc had a mobile/bad reception mode with quick reassociation or whatever17:10
crashanddieits job17:10
Jaffahrw: Did you mean s/andrewfblack/Jaffa/? :-)17:10
crashanddiepupnik: it's called a bnc17:11
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FireStormhmm, rmms any one used it before?17:11
pupnikyea just to eliminate my work17:11
RST38hAh, sweet, Sony just nuked PS3s with a "helpful" firmware update17:12
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hrwJaffa: argh... I too often do that17:13
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pupnikthe linux support?17:13
crashanddiepupnik: telnet sdf.org17:14
FireStormhmm17:15
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RST38hpupnik: Was supposed to be the linux support, but accidentally nuked everything17:15
hrw~curse people which keyboards lack del key17:15
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, people which keyboards lack del key !17:15
FireStormconfused.com17:16
crashanddieFireStorm: please don't spam17:17
* pupnik goes for phood17:17
FireStormi didn't mean to :p put it in wrong channel!!!!17:17
FireStormirssi confuses me it has been a while17:18
DocScrutinizerpupnik: xchat ping_timeout=9017:18
RST38hGood17:18
RST38hNow go to the right channel.17:18
FireStormRST38h: whats ps3 done then kill all ps3's using new update?17:18
RST38hFireStorm: talking gibberish at me is not recommended either.17:19
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cehtehhttp://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/04/07/022250/Largest-Sodium-Sulfur-Battery-Powers-a-Texas-Town     n900 battery problem solved :)17:19
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toggles_wcehteh: i'd like to see you put that in your pocket17:20
lcukcehteh, but thats a 350degree egg smelling molten core and can only give 8hrs17:20
crashanddieFireStorm: seriously, get a grip please17:20
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crashanddielcuk: I guess some people in here wouldn't notice the smell then17:21
crashanddiedepends how often mum cleans the room though17:21
pupnikanybody good with tech patents? :/17:21
crashanddiepupnik: quite17:22
lcukRST38h, what DID happen with the ps3 upgrade17:22
crashanddielcuk: they removed the linux feature from all ps3's17:22
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crashanddielcuk: so there's 6 unhappy people17:22
DocScrutinizerLOL17:23
DocScrutinizerthat many?17:23
crashanddiewell, some may have died since the last census17:23
DocScrutinizeryeah17:23
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* DocScrutinizer cackles17:23
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jacekowskicehteh: it's not the battery17:24
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jacekowskicehteh: it's software17:24
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jacekowskicehteh: if you leave it idling it can last for 4-5 days17:24
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: the sw is stinking like foul egg? XP17:25
cehtehjacekowski: but with that battery you can run it at full speed for a lifetime ... prolly all n900's ever produced :)17:25
DocScrutinizeryeah assuming the lifetime is reduced to some 24h by massive overclocking, as then the molten sulfur of the battery has chilled down too much17:26
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jacekowskicehteh: it's only 4MW17:27
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jacekowskicehteh: for 8h17:27
jacekowskiwhich is 32MWh17:27
DocScrutinizernot bad ;-P17:28
cehtehstill quite impressive17:28
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cehtehmaybe only suffice to power the LHC for a few minutes, but thats another thing17:28
jacekowskin900 battery is 4.9Wh17:29
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DocScrutinizerhmm, am I doing math right? A N900 may eat some tens to hundereds of KWh in its lifetime?17:29
jacekowskiso that battery could power 6,5 million17:29
jacekowskin900's17:29
cehtehsee .. my guess wasnt wrong :)17:30
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jacekowskiassuming that in worst case scenario you would charge it once a day17:30
jacekowskifor 2 years17:30
jacekowskithat would be 2*365*517:30
cehtehwell there are less than 6.5mio n900 around17:30
cehtehdunno the sales figure but i bet less than 1mio17:31
jacekowskiso it would be 3.6kWh17:31
lcukhaving a battery the size of a house isn't much of a problem until you need to lick the terminal to see if its flat17:31
jacekowskiover 2 years17:31
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cehtehlcuk: and if its not flat you have a problem with a vaporized tounge17:31
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: thanks, so my 'math' was off by one magnitude at least17:32
FireStormhehe lcuk  imagine shorting the battery out to see if it's got any life left in it!!!!!17:32
jacekowskicehteh: nokia sells over 100 million phones per year17:33
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: yeah17:33
cehtehyes, but n900 is certainly less than 1% of them17:33
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: your kung fu isn't good enough17:34
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SpeedEvilFlat out, the n900 uses about 3W17:34
SpeedEvilso, that's a pretty hard maximum17:35
SpeedEvil30Kwh/year, or 300Kwh in 10 years17:35
Sceltkonttori: where's the pr1.2?17:35
hrwScelt: no rush, release in november17:35
Sceltwhat year?17:36
javispedro201217:36
kirmaI think nokia sells about 100 million phones per quarter, not year17:36
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andrewfblackhrw: I can't access ml from work what did it say?17:36
hrwandrewfblack: I (again) messed names17:37
andrewfblackhrw: k17:37
javispedroJaffa: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PR1.2_autobuilder I don't know if I can abuse the task namespace like this, so feel free to move... :P17:37
DocScrutinizer~3 * 24 * 36517:37
infobot2628017:37
FIQi have no plans on overclocking my device, but wouldn't 125-600MHz clock variety make the battery actually lasting longer?17:38
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: so my kung fu wasn't such bad17:38
SpeedEvilFIQ: probably, yes.17:38
Jaffajavispedro: Cool, want to post that on the ML thread? I think it's going to be a task for X-Fade in this timebox^Wsprint17:38
hrwjavispedro: I would vote for reverting to safe SDK for extras17:38
FIQinstead of 250-600 as in the default17:38
fabinaderHi, I'm changing N900 kernel and I was willing to update the eMMC root image to include my new zImage and the kernel modules, using instructions from http://wiki.maemo.org/Modifying_the_root_image and http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=403015 , do I need specific instructions other than just replacing zImage and the kernel modules?17:38
javispedroJaffa: yep17:38
SpeedEvilFIQ: some devices are not stable at 125 though17:38
FIQah17:38
Jaffajavispedro: Ta17:38
hrwJaffa, javispedro: with unknown release date of pr1.2 there is no sense in having extras-devel/testing broken17:39
javispedroyou did the initial "condensantion" of options and pros/cons :)17:39
hrwwho knows will pr1.2 get released at all17:39
javispedrowill be the same when pr1.2+1 comes, etc.17:40
hrwwho knows? maybe they will bump soname of libs this time?17:40
javispedrothat wouldn't help17:40
hrwso libhildon1 in 1.2, libhildon2 in 1.3 etc17:40
hrwanyway it just shows how nokia care about devs17:41
javispedrothe issue here is that if we built packages in the pr1.2 sdk they have a libhildon2 dep, if we build packages in the 1.0 sdk they have a libhildon1 dep17:41
javispedrowhatever they use pr1.2 or pr1.0 features17:41
hrwimplement shlibssymbols17:41
javispedros/wherever17:41
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DocScrutinizerhrw: (sonames) let's pray17:41
Jaffahrw: Agreed17:41
javispedrohrw: requires newer debhelper :(17:42
hrwjavispedro: dh7 is in repos17:42
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hrwand yes, I know that shitbox can override some parts but that can be workarounded with magic shitbox env vars17:43
* javispedro thinks about upgrading the debian toolchain in a pr and shudders17:43
javispedrobtw (ot) does rpm implement something akin to dpkg's .symbol files?17:44
hrwno idea17:44
hrwI know one thing - I need to collect all my sd/microsd/etc cards cause I lost track17:45
godrikHi guys, I got a question about MeamoMapper and GPS on the N810. I can not get a fix at all unless I start Nokia's Map application which get a fix immediately. Is there a way to "fix" MaemoMapper ? Or an easier way of getting a fix than using Nokia's Map ?17:45
_berto_<hrw> implement shlibssymbols17:46
_berto_that would be the solution17:46
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hrw_berto_: question is: is it worth time?17:46
_berto_http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/ImprovedDpkgShlibdeps17:47
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_berto_I think it is, there are lots of compatibility problems in debian because of that17:47
_berto_you cannot install a package from a more recent distribution in cases where you should be able17:47
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javispedronote that I tried to create a package with .symbols files using the base maemo toolchain, and you can.17:49
* noobmonk3y lost in the semi's :(17:49
javispedrothe issue is that the amount of verbosity with the current outdated debhelpers is huge17:49
_berto_but does it work?17:49
X-FadeWe could do tests with: http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/stable/main/binary-i386/scratchbox-devkit-debian-squeeze_1.0.3_i386.deb17:50
javispedroyou can't use dh_shlibdeps and have to bring your own.17:50
javispedroif you call that working ... :D17:50
X-FadeThis is a newer devkit, but we need to make sure that is not breaking more things than it fixes.17:50
_berto_what do you mean by 'bring your own' ?17:50
javispedroreimplement it or grab the newer debian's version and put it in the packaging17:51
_berto_I can prepare a list of the symbols introduced in each libhildon release, if that helps17:51
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javispedro_berto_: even if they're not used, we could start doing that NOW.17:51
noobmonk3yMohammadAG, /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/Scaling_available_frequencies - is that the one to list from?17:51
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* andrewfblack is running Open Office, and Inkscape on his N900....Well ok I'm running it on my work PC but the files are stored on the N900 lol17:54
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javispedroX-Fade: interesting. seems to ship updated dh_shlibdeps (unlike the lenny devkit :P )17:56
X-Fadejavispedro: Yes it does.17:57
* javispedro wonders if that will be the default for harmattan17:58
X-Fadejavispedro: Quite possible. The tools will be updated to more recent versions at least.17:58
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MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, cat it, does it give you four/five values?17:58
noobmonk3yyeah17:59
MohammadAGif yes, highest (first) is max, lowest (last) is min17:59
noobmonk3yjust splitting them down now and will add them17:59
noobmonk3yyup17:59
MohammadAGof course divide by 1000 to make it MHz instead of Hz17:59
javispedroanyway, does anyone consider getting hildon .debs rebuilt with appropriate symbol times BEFORE pr1.2 (and at least before pr1.3) possible? I have my own doubts :P18:00
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javispedros/times/files18:01
X-Fadejavispedro: On the builder we can install an additional package for instance.18:01
X-Fadejavispedro: Containing symbols.18:01
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javispedroheh, ugly but would work :P18:01
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X-FadeOr change the sdk locally.18:02
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javispedrosymbol files go iirc to /var/lib/dpkg/info/libfoo-dev.symbols (reason I think an external "libfoo-dev-symbols" package would be ugly)18:03
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javispedrosee your local debian install for samples18:03
X-FadeBut would keep the original sdk in place.18:03
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X-FadeNot really feeling a lot for maintaining an sdk :)18:04
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godrikHi guys, I got a question about MeamoMapper and GPS on the N810. I can not get a fix at all unless I start Nokia's Map application which get a fix immediately. Is there a way to "fix" MaemoMapper ? Or an easier way of getting a fix than using Nokia's Map ?18:04
javispedrothe symbol files also need maintaining... :P hopefully, less.18:04
lcuki want to know how you have gps on n810 that gets a fix immediately18:05
lcukX-Fade, would any sdk modifications be forward thinking18:05
godriklcuk: if I start Nokia's Map while outside, I got a fix under a minute18:05
godrikreproducibility: 100%18:06
lcukso that when we come round to 1.3 for instance we could use same principle18:06
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javispedroor harmattan, with the community maintained hildon18:06
lcukor is this a sticking plaster specifically for 1.218:06
X-Fadelcuk: Ideally the sdk people would fix it ;)18:06
lcukyes18:06
* lcuk nods sagely18:06
X-FadeBut with that symbol package we could do it ourselves.18:06
javispedroyeah.18:06
andrewfblackhttp://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/setup_new_talk_moderator_structure/ made it to under vote in less then 2 hours18:06
javispedroliking it so far.18:07
X-FadeWe now install the optify package after rootstrap extraction too.18:07
lcukandrewfblack, your blog post fails when i click from planet18:07
X-FadeSo in that step we can add the symbols.18:07
javispedroof course the fact that we align more with debian again is a nice plus :)18:07
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andrewfblackrefresh screen should work then18:07
X-FadeThe only tricky part is the devkit.18:07
lcukX-Fade, optify should theoretically be a noop on scratchbox18:07
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X-Fadelcuk: No, package optify thingie.18:08
lcukmaemo-optify-runonce18:08
lcuki know18:08
X-Fadeno18:08
lcukahh different one18:08
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andrewfblackwow I've hit 7 thumb downs now on each my blog posts now18:09
lcukandrewfblack, do they all fail to show when you click them18:09
lcuklike it does for me18:09
javispedrohm... mailing list bouncing my message :S18:09
X-Fadelcuk: maemo-optify in extras-devel.18:09
lcuk:O18:09
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X-Fadejavispedro: and it should ;)18:09
andrewfblacklcuk: I think its my new theme they used not to but this week they started failing some18:09
javispedroaw, sorry, wrong From: address :(18:10
lcukandrewfblack, yeah, your theme this week has been quite gloomy :p18:10
andrewfblacklcuk: been a gloomy week for me18:11
lcuk:(18:11
lcukis that why the thumbs down18:11
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andrewfblacklcuk: me being gloomy or bug in me theme?18:13
andrewfblackI think because I've been gloomy18:13
lcuka bit of both i think18:13
lcukyou need to fix external links into your site though if you want your message18:14
* noobmonk3y prods lcuk 18:14
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javispedrosigh. The only reason tmoers want more mods is to ban posters that lie to them about release date of pr1.2 :P18:23
DocScrutinizermuhaha18:24
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w00t_MohammadAG: ping18:26
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* andrewfblack needs to write his own wordpress theme18:27
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nidOjavispedro: sounds good to me \o/18:28
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javispedronid0: bah. if the ridiculous pr1.2 thread were to gain a few posts more  I would've posted that myself18:29
javispedroi'm sure the original grandposter of the "pr1.2 released" thread is now laughing from the comfort of his couch18:30
andrewfblacklcuk: there a little less gloomy looking now18:30
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andrewfblackwow ranked up 2 more thumb downs18:31
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E0xany way tool for get battery status in number , i was trying to get /proc/apci/battery/BAT0/info18:45
E0xbut not luck18:45
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asahello18:46
asaany GSOC mentor here?18:46
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rm_youis maemo/meego doing GSOC?18:46
Stskeepsyes18:47
rm_youcool18:47
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rm_youBTW, sup Stskeeps18:47
rm_you:)18:47
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Stskeepsnot much18:47
rm_youhows work?18:47
Stskeepsgood18:48
rm_youlol18:48
rm_youlast time you said "frustrating" so i guess things are looking up? :)18:48
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Stskeepsyeah - i am, working for maemo.org is cool :)18:49
basilhi, i upgraded my scratchbox to 1.2, now my progs don't work for the n900, how can i downgrade my scratchbox?18:49
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MohammadAGbasil, afaik you can't18:52
MohammadAGunless you install the old packages manually18:52
basilapt-get install libqt-maemo5?18:52
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slonopotamusmwahaha :D http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/hell.png19:02
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Shapeshifterbasil: :o19:05
Shapeshifterbasil: PM19:05
basilPM? Package Manager?19:06
Shapeshifterbasil: private message ;)19:06
ShapeshifterI queried you.19:06
basili'm new to irc, what means to query?19:07
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basilembarrasing, i know19:07
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Shapeshifterbasil: I think you can't downgrade the SDK, you'de need to remove it and reinstall the old one. Though it might be better to find out what the actualy problem is with your progs because PR 1.2 will be out some time in the future.19:11
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SceltPR 1.2 out?!?19:12
C-S-B-N900when is pr1.2?19:12
C-S-B-N900should be soon19:12
javispedroPR1.2 is out, quickly go post that on TMO!19:12
_berto_we're waiting for the final release of duke nukem forever, it'll be one of the highlights in PR1.219:13
t-tanhurray!! let's start a new thread on TMO! :-D19:13
javispedroPR1.2 is so last week. Can we find another story already?19:14
MohammadAGMeeGo UI on the N90019:14
Stskeepsyou mean a xterm?19:14
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SceltPR1.2 OUTOUTUTTVITTU?19:15
MohammadAGStskeeps, no a UI! (was just answering javispedro's request :P)19:15
javispedroMohammadAG: then call it propertly! "Handset UX"19:15
javispedro;P19:15
* slonopotamus yawns19:15
slonopotamuswhy care?19:15
MohammadAGjavispedro, off to TMO then19:15
MohammadAG:P19:15
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w00t_anyone know whether krk969 (author of showtime for maemo) comes on IRC?19:16
javispedro~seen krk96919:16
t-tanI want online speech recognition and translation in PR2.019:16
infobotjavispedro: i haven't seen 'krk969'19:16
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w00t_javispedro: he might use another nick, that's just his TMO user19:16
* w00t_ doesn't know19:16
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MohammadAGhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4943419:17
MohammadAGhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=4233819:17
MohammadAG:/19:17
javispedrobonus points since both of the threads where in active topics a few minutes ago19:17
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w00t_MohammadAG: did you have any luck btw?19:20
w00t_if not I'll give it a crack in a bit19:21
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MohammadAGw00t_, yeah, I postponed test, so I guess that's good luck19:22
* MohammadAG fires up scratchbox19:22
w00t_haha19:22
w00t_when is it now?19:22
MohammadAGsat :P19:22
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* MohammadAG goes to laptop19:22
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* VDVsx wonders why the channel is so quite today 0.o something happened for sure :D19:56
Stskeepsdunno :P19:57
hrwusers got tired of waiting for pr1.2 and mass sold their n900s19:57
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VDVsxah, the meego forum, is everybody posting there ? :D19:58
Shapeshifteroh dear, they made a forum19:58
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VDVsxtmo 2.0 :D19:59
DocScrutinizerhrw: any pointers to good cheap sells?19:59
t-tanlots of overclocked devices melted. the remaining healthy ones are sold on ebay for very high prices19:59
ShapeshifterVDVsx: btw, do you know how many gsoc applications maemo got up til now?20:00
mikhasI just read "users got hired for waiting for pr1.2 and mass soldered their n900s" - perhaps the pizza was too spicey, after all ...20:00
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DocScrutinizerrotfl20:01
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DocScrutinizertell me where from you got these spices20:01
VDVsxShapeshifter, not sure, didn't checked in the last two days20:01
DocScrutinizererr, 'spices'20:01
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ShapeshifterVDVsx: when you last checked, how many were there?20:02
mikhasthoses 'spices' supposedly came from the UAE ...20:02
DocScrutinizergnhnhnhnhn20:03
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mikhashmph, too late for a "1st post!" already20:03
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* DocScrutinizer got hungry for a good pizza now20:04
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petterihttp://forum.meego.com20:05
venkathi all, im planning to submit a gsoc app for creating a remote app for maemo, which is similar to "http://www.apple.com/itunes/remote/"20:05
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venkatusing dacp , to control itunes20:05
b-man|ubuntuhttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=599601#post599601 :)20:05
b-man|ubuntuhttp://b-man.xceleo.org/images/fedora :)20:05
venkatany pointers?20:06
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venkatfor a proof of concept, it can b tested on itunes, but adding the support for rhythmbox shd not be difficult20:07
javispedrob-man|ubuntu: meego! ;)20:07
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b-man|ubuntujavispedro: lol true xD20:08
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Shapeshiftervenkat: to control itunes? Mh well. I'm not sure if the API is open, even. In any case, people "should" rather be using something like mpd for this stuff... it's the prime use case of one machine playing and the other being a client. and there's mpd clients for the n900 already.20:08
venkatdacp is what they use20:08
venkatits not open20:08
VDVsxShapeshifter, 34, iirc20:08
venkatbut people have ported to android20:08
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VDVsxmikhas, I warned you about the spices :D20:09
venkatso, the idea will not win?20:09
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ShapeshifterVDVsx: thanks20:10
tripzeroi swear i saw "trapster" available in an app catalog..20:10
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venkatShapeshifter, so you are saying i can control my media player now with n900?20:10
Shapeshiftervenkat: if your media player is based on mpd. which imho is a brilliant solution.20:11
Shapeshifterbut not itunes. and while itunes support might be attractive to some people, I'd not support a rubbish piece of software like that.20:11
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tripzerorubbish?20:11
Shapeshifteritunes.20:11
tripzeroi think you give it too much credit20:11
tripzero;)20:12
Shapeshifter^^20:12
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DocScrutinizeramarok ftw20:12
Shapeshiftervenkat: never heard of mpd? you run the server somewhere (the part which indexes the music and holds the db) and the you use any of the gazillion clients: http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Clients20:12
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venkatmultiple users can control it simultaneously?20:12
Shapeshiftervenkat: sure20:13
venkatneat. will read about it20:13
noobmonk3yw00t_,  Can i borrow your brains please? :D20:13
w00t_noobmonk3y: you can certainly try20:13
noobmonk3yhttp://pastebin.com/GbdmZn2F20:13
noobmonk3ySooo close but gettin goperand issues20:14
w00t_which line is causing problems, and what do you get?20:14
* w00t_ bets line 10 will be problematic20:14
noobmonk3ytrying to read each part of 1 line in a file so example 6000000 500000 40000020:14
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noobmonk3yand yup line 10 is operanding me out20:14
noobmonk3ytried a few variants20:14
w00t_use str()20:14
venkatShapeshifter, how about bring ubuntu one to maemo? has someone applied for the same idea?20:14
noobmonk3ysurrounding the s/100020:15
w00t_you can't append a number to a string in python without 'casting'20:15
w00t_aa = aa + str(s/100) + "MHz, "20:15
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noobmonk3yapplied for the same idea? :|20:15
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noobmonk3yoh not me20:16
noobmonk3ylol20:16
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venkatits one of the listed ideas. So I thought there will be multiple students wud have opted to do the same20:16
LuciusMareHi, bad things happen, and so I locked my SIM. I have no idea what could go wrong, i am sure i entered the pin correctly... So how do I, now, unlock the sim? (I *have* the PUK code)20:16
noobmonk3ystill get an unsupported operand error for /: str and int20:16
Shapeshiftervenkat: no idea. I applied myself with an idea. But competition seems really tough.20:16
venkatShapeshifter, if u dont mind, can you share your idea that u applied for?20:17
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Shapeshiftervenkat: why? ;) I applied for the "desktop search" widget.20:18
venkatShapeshifter, simply so that i opt a different one :)20:18
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: in settings in menu there should be an unlock entry IIRC20:20
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Shapeshiftervenkat: I bet some applied for the same project. the better applications wins I guess, *if* the proposal itself is being considered.20:20
venkatShapeshifter, can you name some media players that support mpd?20:21
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: desktop search like in beagle/spotlight ?20:22
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: yeah20:22
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LuciusMareDocScrutinizer: it says "Cellular data unavailible"20:22
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Shapeshiftervenkat: mpd itself is the "player". and there's lots of clients which control it.20:22
LuciusMares/availible/available/20:22
infobotLuciusMare meant: DocScrutinizer: it says "Cellular data unavailable"20:22
Shapeshiftervenkat: I've sent you the link to the client list earlier20:23
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: please quote exactly which entry/function you used20:23
venkatShapeshifter, never knew this b4!!!20:23
LuciusMaresettings>phone20:23
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: you need to go to the menu(!) of settings20:24
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LuciusMareoh20:24
LuciusMareyes, there is, thanks :)20:24
venkatShapeshifter, you are planning todo incremental search?20:24
venkatstart giving results as and when u start typing20:25
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: if it fails to unlock for 2 times, I urgently recommend you use a simple cellphone to unlock20:25
Shapeshiftervenkat: of course20:26
Shapeshifteranything else would be lame ;)20:26
DocScrutinizerif it works, we all would like to hear of that20:26
venkatShapeshifter, great how much memory do u think u will consume?20:26
Shapeshiftervenkat: very little as the daemon is already installed and running on any n900.20:26
ShapeshifterI'd just be using it and writing a gui frontend.20:26
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venkatwhich daemon ? you are not going to write a daemon that indexes all data?20:27
Shapeshiftervenkat: tracker. no need to write a new one.20:28
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venkatya k20:28
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tgalalwhat is the location where menu icons are kept?20:28
venkati thought u will listen on dbus get info and update urself20:28
tgalalmenu icons for default apps, like conversations for example20:29
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: tracker will need a decent config though, plus plugins/conduits/whatyacallit for indexing contacts, SMS, all sorts of documemts, webpages, etc20:31
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Arkenoifreoffice: Depends: kofficemaemo but it is not going to be installed20:32
Arkenoi             Depends: libqt4-core (>= 4.6.2~git20100224) but 4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo6+0m5 is to be installed20:32
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Arkenoiwhere do i get newer one?20:32
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: yeah I thought of that. luckily, some of the plugins already exist (e.g. IM or email)20:32
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VDVsxShapeshifter, 46 now :D + some invalid20:32
ShapeshifterVDVsx: tough times.20:32
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Shapeshifterwell for students at least ;)20:33
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bistongood morning, i just went into the download page of MeeGo and saw that images are available now. i just want to make sure that if anything go wrong, would maemo-flasher just reload maemo kernel for me on my n900 like nothng happened?20:34
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tripzerobiston, you do know that the meego image is just CLI right?20:34
tripzerothere's no GUI?20:34
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bistonyes i do20:34
tripzerooh, okay20:35
bistoni read that20:35
tripzerothen flash away20:35
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tripzerothere's a wiki page iirc on how to do it20:35
bistonim already there, though i don't need it20:35
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: for the incremental search: I think that's quite hard to implement, as you usually won't get a single hit and then jump to the next one. Rather you want a list representing all hits with details about context, type of source etc. Such a list is virually impossible to update on-the-fly with incremental search, and for sure you (user) don't want to check the whole llst each time you type one additional char20:36
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: depends. Awesomebar does not too bad a job of it.20:37
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Arkenoiso how do i upgrade qt to 4.6.2?20:38
DocScrutinizeranyway. my laptop starts to smell hot... cya20:39
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: well for once I'd limit the incremental search to 5 or more digits, so that the volume of possible matches from tracker is much smaller. And the results would need to be ranked by relevance.20:39
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sivanghi all20:42
sivanganybody knows where to get the code for restoring an N97 Mini to factory settings?20:42
sivang(I am trying to do so from the phone mgmt. menu)20:42
sivangHow odd the phone has this code from factory and I was never told about.20:42
venkatsivang, i think u need to press some combination of 4 keys20:43
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venkatgoogle it20:43
sivangvenkat: there's all sorts of odd side effects when you do this.20:43
sivangvenkat: not sure this is what I want. I don't want stuff to get erased just the setting to go back to factory20:44
DocScrutinizeryesyes, but if I imagine how I type 'bq24150' I hardly can see any use in a incremental search with instant presentation of the results. Maybe show me number of hits, ok. But even with full searchkey I quite usually get more than 1 even more than some 5 hits. So I'd want to type the whole searchkey without massive CPU usage possibly blocking my input, then I want to check the results and select the one I was looking for20:44
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: ^^^20:44
venkatsivang, do u need a soft reset or hard reset?20:44
sivangvenkat: soft as far as I know20:44
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sivangvenkat: I have a program that fails to use the Data connection for some odd reason, and when I just got the phone it worked.20:45
lcukDocScrutinizer, depends on the starting point, if you are on a list of all recipes and you search for "ca" i would expect to see the cakes etc filtered down20:45
sivangvenkat: soft reset is that the menu offers no?20:45
lcukbut if you are starting from blankness you can waitfor the user to press return etc - tho the ux for that is misleading at times20:45
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venkati remember seeing in some menus20:45
venkat4 key combination is hard reset20:45
venkatit will also not delete your stuff20:45
DocScrutinizerlcuk: that's not the way a desktop indexer works, though20:46
venkatsivang, s20:46
sivangand then I could st the lock code?20:46
lcuksivang, go to a symbian forum or google20:46
sivangThis is so confusing.20:46
sivangI wonder if there's something in the manual for that.20:46
lcukDocScrutinizer, depends, theres many variations on search :)20:46
lcukhave you seen how i do it?20:46
lcukhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CtynM36kxY20:47
sivanglcuk: right, so there's are those impossible key combinations.20:47
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: with a system global search there's no such thing like a startpoint20:48
lcuksure there is20:49
lcukawesome bar - find as you type - starts from everything but has no ui showing20:49
lcukor showing a list of emails in thunderbird, searching waits until you press enter20:50
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lcukwiating for enter ux though is bad - because you engage the possibility of having a search term at the top thats not related to the items in the list below20:51
DocScrutinizerwtf has showing mails in a mailer prog to do with a system global search like spotlight?20:51
lcukdifferent search strategies that are used20:51
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ghostcube_maemohi20:55
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tripzerookay, this may sound like an uber stupid question, but how do i activate the autocomplete?20:58
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tripzeroi see it autocompleting, but what button is the "use the autocompleted word" button?20:59
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frosty`tripzero: right arrow?21:01
noobmonk3yw00t_, finally! got it working with - aa = str(aa) + str((int(words)/1000)) + "MHz, "21:01
DocScrutinizer-8Shapeshifter: indexer is kinda your private little googlebot. desktop search is similar to http://google.com. Is there any incremental search on google.com? guess why!21:01
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noobmonk3yhad to declare ints/str's quite specifically :P21:02
w00t_facebrick packaged and seemingly working thanks to some help from MohammadAG \o/21:02
MohammadAGnp :)21:03
lcukw00t_, facebrick? :D21:03
MohammadAGyou figured out most of the problems though :)21:03
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w00t_lcuk: that's what I decided to call it yes :D21:03
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moo---hey w00t_21:03
w00t_moo---: hi21:03
lcukexcellent naming choice :)21:03
tripzerofrosty`, there's a right arrow in the osk?21:03
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w00t_MohammadAG: you know how we get this into extras-devel?21:03
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* lcuk waves @ marmoute 21:04
lcukmarcoil too21:04
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tripzeroinitiate autocomplete in the osk anyone?21:04
w00t_marcoil: \o21:04
w00t_(burchr here)21:05
* VDVsx waves at lcuk :P21:05
* lcuk throws a pie @ VDVsx 21:05
lcukstill eating in my kebab shop?21:05
MohammadAGw00t_, yep21:05
VDVsxlcuk, eheheh21:05
MohammadAGw00t_, free right?21:05
VDVsxlcuk, went there today with mikhas :D21:05
lcukhaha cool21:05
sivangokay, so the lock code was 1234521:05
w00t_MohammadAG: yes21:05
sivanginteresting.21:05
* noobmonk3y blinks21:05
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sivangNow, is there a way to uninstall an S60 app that has gone bad?21:06
lcukVDVsx, :) will have a bite with you next time im over21:06
VDVsxlcuk, the pizza is good there21:06
* lcuk nods21:06
sivangwhat could make it not find/use the 3G data connection ?21:06
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MohammadAGw00t_, a simple build without the -b should produce the files extras-assistant needs21:06
w00t_MohammadAG: interesting21:06
MohammadAG.changes, .dsc, and .tar.gz21:07
MohammadAGthe autobuilder will then build it21:07
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mikhasyup, lcuk - good place21:07
* MohammadAG hates how cloaking isn't allowed/possible here21:08
* noobmonk3y thinks either tinterweb is falling over or my connection is :|21:08
MohammadAGhere = freenode btw21:08
lcukMohammadAG, ?21:08
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lcukmost have cloaks21:08
noobmonk3yMohammadAG, thought that a few peeps here had cloaks?21:08
MohammadAGlcuk, visible IP instead of a hostname21:08
MohammadAGlcuk, not by default though right?21:08
lcukcheck mine21:08
* VDVsx still has a council cloak :P21:08
lcukno, you request it21:08
lcukyou have to be an upstanding member of the community21:09
MohammadAG/hs request?21:09
lcukso thats why you havent got one21:09
MohammadAGI'm not an upstanding member?21:09
javispedroyou can also donate to freenode and they'll give one21:09
javispedro15$ iirc21:09
* noobmonk3y requests that lcuk gets noobmonk3y a beer......21:09
MohammadAGlol21:09
fralsyou can get unaffiliated for free im pretty sure21:09
* lcuk acks the request and produces white elephant joke21:10
lcukVDVsx, who does cloaks, is it GAN90021:10
* frals laughs at noobmonk3y, ive already had 3 beers today mouhaha21:10
GeneralAntillesX-Fade21:10
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* noobmonk3y whinges21:10
VDVsxlcuk, X-Fade21:10
noobmonk3yerm i thought X-Fade  did21:10
lcukthere you go then MohammadAG21:10
MohammadAGthanks21:10
noobmonk3ythere is a post on tmo about it somewhere21:10
DocScrutinizer-8MohammadAG: join #freenode, ask for unaffiliated cloak21:11
* noobmonk3y steals frals beers21:11
fralslong gone... :D21:11
javispedro"If you're thinking about getting a generic cloak, though, please consider instead making a donation  to Peer-Directed Projects Center."21:11
GeneralAntilleslcuk, Maemo Contributor cloak is 500 karma.21:11
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer-8, will do in a while21:11
* lcuk steals noobmonk3y's chair whilst hes stealing beers21:11
noobmonk3ylol21:11
lcukGeneralAntilles, lol i thought i was joking21:11
* noobmonk3y does have 3 beers in the fridge just one more h/c version to upload b4 i can be arsed to get up n get one21:11
lcuki didnt realise it was a serious requirement21:11
lcuk:D21:11
noobmonk3ylcuk,  - lying on a bed21:11
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lcukafter you wore yourself out losing at football?21:12
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lcukbbl21:13
noobmonk3y:(21:13
noobmonk3ykk21:14
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javispedro237 out of 238 hunks FAILED. ah..21:20
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E0xhow long tame the n900 to do a full recharge ?21:23
E0x( battery recharge )21:23
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noobmonk3y2hrs ish21:23
noobmonk3ymaybe 3 does depend on the charger tho21:24
MohammadAG4h here21:24
MohammadAGbut that's because I don't let it idle while charging21:24
w00t_http://i41.tinypic.com/103gbjm.png | http://i42.tinypic.com/1ekx1u.png | http://i40.tinypic.com/16gixlk.png <- anyone got opinions on which is nicer? :)21:24
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brikw00t_: first one21:26
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w00t_bear in mind that will be used in app listing, so shadow might affect it.. I honestly don't know21:27
w00t_noobmonk3y: take a look :P21:27
w00t_lcuk: you too!21:27
noobmonk3y2nd or third21:27
noobmonk3y2nd i say21:27
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w00t_MohammadAG: one vote for each, I say you decide :P21:28
lcuk"f" is wrong :p21:29
* MohammadAG asks again21:29
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lcukor is that your personal rating :p21:29
MohammadAGwhich one is good for the maemo launcher21:29
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pupnikw00t_: no idea which21:31
brikwith a light theme, I guess the shadow will show21:31
w00t_ok, that's an important distinction i should have made21:31
w00t_:)21:31
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briksome of the icons in app reader have shadows too, like file browser, pdf reader, rrs reader21:37
brikand at least imo, they look better than the flat ones :p21:38
* VDVsx happily notices that the meego forum is still sane :)21:39
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer-8: well, yes there is incremental search on google.com21:39
* RST38h happily yawns and swallows a live mouse21:40
RST38hVDVsx: Meego has got a forum?21:40
VDVsxRST38h, yes :D21:40
MohammadAGso which icon should w00t_ use?21:40
RST38hVDVsx: URL? =)21:41
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VDVsxRST38h, http://forum.meego.com/21:41
VDVsxsso from meego.com :D21:41
RST38hah so obvious21:41
RST38hVDVsx: I guess, there are no Meego devices yet, so lemmings stay away21:42
MohammadAGw00t_, I like the second one more, since it should fit in all themes21:42
MohammadAGactually, they all have minor changes, so they can be changed later21:42
GeneralAntillesHooboy, another TSG meeting.21:43
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w00t_MohammadAG: go for it21:44
* GeneralAntilles gets crackers and hummus.21:44
RST38hGeneral: Will they...like...decide something?21:44
GeneralAntillesRST38h, no idea, I haven't even looked at the agenda.21:44
GeneralAntillesRST38h, http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings#Next_TSG_meeting21:46
GeneralAntillesRST38h, looks like a good one to just catch the minutes of. . . .21:46
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DocScrutinizer-8Shapeshifter: obviously your definition of incremental search is absolutely different to mine21:47
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RST38hOh well.21:47
ghostcube_maemowill meego still be dpkg based and .deb21:47
venkatShapeshifter, what google has as incremental is just suggestions21:47
venkatit will be nice if u cud give out results21:48
* ghostcube_maemo prays21:48
venkatsomething like gnome-do21:48
* javispedro posts TMO thread: N920 unveiled! more information in forums.meego.com21:48
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petterighostcube_maemo: no. intel devs hate debian, dpkg and .deb21:49
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DocScrutinizer-8Shapeshifter: the only thing on http://google.com I can find that maybe might resemble faintly to an incremental search, is the word completion dropdown in searchkey textbox. This isn't any real search at all though21:51
ghostcube_maemooh21:51
ghostcube_maemoi hate rpm21:51
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ptl_demands_PR12I don't hate rpm, but deb is so much better!21:52
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DocScrutinizer-8Shapeshifter: as it doesn't show any (dereferentiation) *results*, it only helps to find completions for the search *key*21:53
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ghostcube_maemoyeah deb just works21:53
E0xptl_demands_PR12: rpm deltas in the new rpm version is cool21:53
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E0xbut i feel that installing program rpm is more slow21:53
E0xthat other packages21:53
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ptl_demands_PR12E0x: I'd prefer rpm if that rollback feature they implemented once was not reversed.21:54
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E0xptl_demands_PR12: deb don't have rollback21:54
E0xso21:54
ptl_demands_PR12E0x: but they took it off... That feature alone would make rpm be superior to deb.21:54
ghostcube_maemoi run deb now for 13years21:54
ptl_demands_PR12yes21:54
luke-jrE0x: rollback? wtf?21:54
ptl_demands_PR12neither deb nor rpm have rollback currently.21:54
E0xthe delta feature are nice21:54
ptl_demands_PR12rpm has had this feature once, and it was reversed.21:55
ptl_demands_PR12deb also has deltas, isn't it? udeb21:55
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E0xsome solaris distro that are like debian but with solaris kernel21:55
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E0xdo a some rollback technique21:55
E0xusing zfs21:55
luke-jr...21:55
pupnikcan we avoid rescanning entire database?21:55
E0xptl_demands_PR12: a least in debian i don't remember saw the delta21:56
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E0xyou need download the fullpackages21:56
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ptl_demands_PR12E0x: it's not used21:56
ghostcube_maemoany date for 1.2 so far?21:56
shvedskyis it ok to talk here about summer-of-code?21:57
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ptl_demands_PR12shvedsky: why wouldn't it be?21:57
ptl_demands_PR12ghostcube_maemo: LOL21:57
* luke-jr ponders an OS that, if it fails to boot, branches the disk state and boots the last working one with the new one mounted21:57
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E0xluke-jr: windows "do" that21:58
shvedskyptl_demands_PR12: maybe there's a separate channel for that, like in other places21:58
* ptl_demands_PR12 ponders an OS that, when a library is updated, dynamically relinks all the programs in memory that use it if the newer version has the same binary interface21:58
shvedskyI'd like to ask if the idea of cloning Locality from Android is still alive and has chances to be mentored21:59
luke-jrptl_demands_PR12: that's asking for problems21:59
luke-jrconsistent ABI != consistent internal state21:59
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer-8: I see.21:59
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luke-jrwould be nice if a SCM tracked compatibility... internal state, ABI, and API22:00
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luke-jror perhaps just an app to analyze two source trees and make such a judgement22:00
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shvedskythp? epage?  are you here?22:01
PhonicUKhey all. on the N900 where rootfs is roughly 230MB, is only 13MB of free space a problem?22:01
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noobmonk3yhmmmm if i where to try and use cairo in pyqt - anyidea what i need to "import" at the beginning? jusy import pycairo ?22:02
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noobmonk3yPhonicUK, not nescessarily - but for instance, just enabling extras devel on that would eat up your 13mb in one go22:03
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noobmonk3yi try to stick above 25mb for safety :D22:03
PhonicUKive already  got extras devel on :)22:03
noobmonk3y:D  was just an example22:03
noobmonk3yif something else suddenly swallowed 18mb.... it wouldnt be a happy bunny22:04
PhonicUKtrying to figure out what i can move/remove to sort it out a bit22:04
noobmonk3yjust disable repos22:04
noobmonk3yuse only when you need too ;)22:04
PhonicUKoh ok :)22:04
noobmonk3yuse the wkiki, it has some useful things to help you out :)22:04
noobmonk3ywiki22:04
noobmonk3yie, python-optify22:04
PhonicUKso disabling them without deleting them removes the repo index?22:05
noobmonk3yhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space22:05
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noobmonk3yyup22:05
PhonicUKawesome22:05
noobmonk3y:D22:05
shvedsky(another GSoC question) is it ok to apply if I never developed on maemo or any other mobile platform?22:05
PhonicUKill disable sdk as well then22:05
noobmonk3yshvedsky, i asked that and got told it was fine, as long as you are willing ;)22:05
noobmonk3ylol PhonicUK22:06
noobmonk3yie, willing to learn shvedsky22:06
PhonicUKxchat on the bus = awesome22:06
noobmonk3yPhonicUK, yup!!!!22:06
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noobmonk3y:D works really well!22:06
noobmonk3yi'm currently on holiday, and the n900 is my wifi hotspot :D22:07
noobmonk3y(and radiator lol!)22:07
shvedskynoobmonk3y: okay, thanks.22:07
shvedskyyeah, maemo is a nice radiator, much nicer than my previous pda22:07
shvedskyn900*22:07
shvedskyso, I hope that this soc will give me a unique chance to develop on radiators. :-)22:08
noobmonk3y:D :D22:08
PhonicUKi love maemo22:08
noobmonk3ymaemo doesn't love me, she two timed me22:08
PhonicUKesp since i came from the world of symbian on my n9722:08
noobmonk3yran of with MohammadAG and got over clocked22:08
PhonicUKlol22:08
noobmonk3yahhhhhhh - i never really was a phone person22:09
noobmonk3yloved computers, but phones never held my interest22:09
noobmonk3yway too small22:09
PhonicUKlol22:09
PhonicUKi love my phone22:09
noobmonk3yi think the n900 just about converted me :P22:09
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PhonicUKmissing spotify tho22:09
noobmonk3ymeh my e71 is looking lonely on the floor22:09
MohammadAGnoobmonk3y, you overclocked?22:09
noobmonk3yMohammadAG,  nooooooooo, my balls arn't as big as yours ;)22:09
PhonicUKbrb bus stop soon22:09
MohammadAGLOL22:09
noobmonk3ylol22:10
noobmonk3yand your n900 cant control the bus? darn22:10
PhonicUKroffle22:10
MohammadAGhe doesn't have the daemon to do it22:10
PhonicUKstood up waiting to stop22:10
PhonicUKdarn traffic lights22:10
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PhonicUKhmm still only 14mb after turning off sdk and extras22:12
SpeedEvilfind / -mount -size +100k -ctime -4022:12
SpeedEviloh22:12
SpeedEvilnvm22:12
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SpeedEvilstupid busybox22:12
ptl_demands_PR12lol22:12
ptl_demands_PR12/usr/gnu/bin/find then22:12
Sceltptl_demands_PR12: PR1.2 OUT?22:12
ptl_demands_PR12Scelt: of course not, otherwise I wouldn't be using this nickname :)22:13
Sceltptl_demands_PR12: just checking22:13
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ptl_demands_PR12sorry, it's not /usr/gnu/bin/find, it's /usr/bin/gnu/find22:13
shvedskyisn't there a bot that can be asked about maemo updates?22:13
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ptl_demands_PR12let's make a riot so that nokia releases PR1.2 and we'll all be happy22:14
PhonicUKaah home :)22:14
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PhonicUKlol22:14
PhonicUKi want adobe to release flash 10.122:15
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PhonicUKso i can watch iplayer22:15
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PhonicUK4od works perfectly though22:15
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PhonicUKespecially in full screen22:15
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Surfaptl_demands_PR12, i can't see your point22:16
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Surfaptl_demands_PR12, it's kind of an insane demand, I hope you understand that too22:17
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: repositories not lacking libhildon1 anymore, being able to see the same packages as in scratchbox, being able to properly use QT 4.6.2, having usability bugs fixed, etc.22:17
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Surfaand?22:18
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ptl_demands_PR12insane? I think it's more insane to keep delaying the update...22:18
ptl_demands_PR12and?22:18
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ptl_demands_PR12it is as I said22:18
Surfayou definitely want something that is not ready for release?22:18
ptl_demands_PR12Nokia has a bugtracker22:18
ptl_demands_PR12many bugs are marked as FIXED.22:18
Surfa..many bugs.. right22:18
ptl_demands_PR12They must be released, it they are fixed.22:18
ptl_demands_PR12this is the open source way. Release early, release often.22:18
fluxptl_demands_pr12, obviosuly they are just keeping a completely tested and otherwise ready version just to make hordes unhappy22:19
Surfarelease crap22:19
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ptl_demands_PR12Come on, this testing excuse is more lame each day.22:19
fluxbut yeah, I wouldn't mind if the upgraded packages were available as they come. infact I'm sure many people would be happy to be 'beta testers' in this fashion.22:19
Surfai can't see how global company could release untested and unreliable stuff too early22:19
ptl_demands_PR12You can't keep testing forever, the packages work in scratchbox and such.22:20
SpeedEvilSurfa: ask microsoft.22:20
ptl_demands_PR12Someone could tolerate a small delay, but it's respect to their customers.22:20
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ptl_demands_PR12And everybody knew very early about PR1.222:20
SurfaSpeedEvil, and microsoft is related to pr1.2 how?22:20
ptl_demands_PR12Yes, there is an expectancy that must be fulfilled.22:20
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ptl_demands_PR12It's part of the vendor-customer relationship.22:20
Surfaptl_demands_PR12, and what a cry would it cause if there were severe additional bugs released22:21
javispedrogood lord22:21
Surfanow it's just geeks that are unhappy, then it would be everyone22:21
javispedrowho decided to use stackable windows in xchat?22:21
SpeedEvil(08:19:52 PM) Surfa: i can't see how global company could release untested and unreliable stuff too early22:22
Surfathat's vendor-customer relationship22:22
SpeedEviljavispedro: for what?22:22
Surfaand it's completely measurable with money22:22
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ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: then you're not paying attention to the several forums with non-geeks asking for that22:22
javispedrospeedevil, for everything22:22
SurfaSpeedEvil, and if you didn't notice we were talking about nokia and maemo right now22:22
javispedrobreaks "each channel in its own window" scenario22:22
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SpeedEviljavispedro: what do you mean by stackable windows?22:23
Surfaptl_demands_PR12, who cares if people who don't have any idea of the maturity of a release are demanding it?22:23
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Meceany particular reason why there is no UAE in maemo repos?22:23
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Surfait's better that company decides when it's ready to go22:23
* noobmonk3y_ prods noobmonk3y 22:23
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: if the people are their customers, yes, Nokia should care.22:23
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: now you demand geekiness from non-geeks?22:23
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javispedrospeedevil, its that hildon feature where one window stacks over another one instead of having two windows22:24
javispedrothink modest's message view22:24
SpeedEviljavispedro: ah.22:24
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Surfaptl_demands_PR12, what are you talking about?22:24
SpeedEviljavispedro: never used modest22:24
noobmonk3y_MohammadAG, !!!! wohoooooooooo22:24
SpeedEviljavispedro: that's not for the main conversation windows thogh22:24
microlithjavispedro: where is that happening in xchat?22:24
javispedromicrolith, speedevil: disable tabs in xchat and you'll see22:25
thpshvedsky: what's up?22:25
Surfaptl_demands_PR12, luckily you're not the one to decide when nokia releases something, your attitude is just certain death for business of any kind22:25
* noobmonk3y_ lols22:25
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: first you say the public is geeks only, like being geek disqualifies asking something. Now you do the opposite, since I said there are non-geeks demanding it also, you shift to the 'immature' adjective. It doesn't matter if they are geek, mature or immature, and so on: they are customers.22:25
javispedro(have to restart to see effect, and of course, be in more than one channel)22:25
Surfayeah right :)22:25
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: I think the opposite.22:25
noobmonk3y_thp,  never really did thank you for all your help last month, when i started trying to code :D :D - so thankee :D22:25
fluxptl_demands_pr12, so in your opinion nokia bottom line would be better if they released early rather than later?22:25
microlithjavispedro: oh, no way. agreed that is suboptimal though.22:26
Surfaptl_demands_PR12, that makes me wonder how qualified you are within this area22:26
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: Nokia is really shooting its foot, by not proving itself a trustful company, by delaying something that shouldn't take so long.22:26
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microlithptl_demands_PR12: you have no knowing how long it should take22:26
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Surfaif it's not finished and ready to go, how on earth do you think it can be released?22:26
thpnoobmonk3y_: no problem :)22:26
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microlithknow way of knowing*22:26
microlith@#$#22:26
noobmonk3y_:D - version 1.0.0-0 gone to extras devel, and into testing soon :D22:26
microlithcannot type today22:26
* noobmonk3y_ can't type normally!22:27
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ptl_demands_PR12flux: they released PR1.2 for scratchbox. They marked bugs as fixed. And it's taking too long to show the same codes to the production release. What I say is that they are taking much, much longer than they should to get this 'tested.'22:27
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Surfaptl_demands_PR12, something is not ready simply by you saying that it is22:27
Stskeeps122:27
Surfaor that you think it's taking too long22:27
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* noobmonk3y_ agrees22:27
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Surfathat's not a measure for software maturity22:27
noobmonk3y_Stskeeps, moved... might have even been a blink22:27
fluxptl_demands_pr12, so your view is that they have a finished product and they refuse to release it. I'm thinking maybe nokia doesn't share your view.22:27
SpeedEviljavispedro: why would I want to disable tabs?22:27
DrGrovcan't someone just shut the fcuk up about PR 1.2? I am getting insane if people keep talking about it coming, not coming, testing here, testing there.......22:27
SpeedEviljavispedro: but K. Never hit that, as I don't22:28
DrGrovJust my 0.02 cents though...22:28
ptl_demands_PR12flux: if PR1.2 is not released one year from now, would your argument change?22:28
noobmonk3y_lol22:28
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ptl_demands_PR12flux: you're not taking into consideration the time, like it's negligible.22:28
Surfaptl_demands_PR12, subjective views from people lacking sufficient knowledge can't be regarded as a sign for mature enough software22:28
SpeedEvilI have xchat setup as http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4500259237/22:28
SpeedEvilwhich works for me22:28
fluxptl_demands_pr12, yes it would. a few months is not in my opinion a long time in the software business.22:28
javispedrospeedevil: to see more than one channel in task viewer. i also kind of dislike duplicated features (window management)22:29
SpeedEvilah22:29
fluxwhat showstopper bugs are theere that require the release of pr1.2?22:29
sejohey all I created a small python qt gui for the n900 (for entering numbers to block) but how do I get it to use the style of the theme? or should I stick with GTK+?22:29
* sejo waves to fellow belgian pvanhoof_ 22:29
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: there are many more people demanding this, you can't simple assume they lack sufficiente knowledge by face value. I've been in software development and I have took part of the testing stage, and, although it was a different business, I have notion about that.22:29
noobmonk3y_~ping22:29
infobot~pong22:29
SpeedEviljavispedro: yeah. The task viewer blows IMO. I mean sure it's whizzy, and shizzle. But it fails on the fundamental task of being able to bounce between tasks rapidly.22:29
* pvanhoof_ waves back22:29
Surfaptl_demands_PR12, none of people demanding that know certainly nothing about the pr1.2 maturity22:30
Surfathat's a fact that nothing you say will change :)22:30
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: yeah, like you have read all their takes on this subject.22:30
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Surfanokia engineers are only people who know the current situation and they aren't demanding anything22:30
DrGrovcome on guys... still PR 1.2 coming or not coming bullshit?22:30
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DrGrovIt will come when it comes22:30
DrGrovI have learned to accept this with PR 1.222:31
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Surfathey already have latest sw if they want to22:31
Surfaptl_demands_PR12, whatever people outside nokia write don't change the things that they KNOW22:31
Surfait's all about what they think they know22:31
ptl_demands_PR12it changes the customer trust to Nokia.22:32
Surfathat attitude of yours doesn't make any money for companies.. releasing crap is only harming company reputation, even more than delays22:32
Surfawheter you like it or not22:33
ptl_demands_PR12Well, maybe I should stop complaining in name of all the people in the forums with which I talk and just switch to the competitor.22:33
ptl_demands_PR12It'd be better, I'd not be called a troll and wouldn't stress myself.22:33
Surfayou just don't get it22:33
* noobmonk3y_ thinks ptl_demands_PR12 needs a beer :P22:33
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ptl_demands_PR12I prefer the GNU/Linux architecture that maemo/meego uses but I am getting really tired of this.22:33
* lcuk does too22:33
Surfahow difficult it is to understand that nokia can't release something that isn't mature enough?22:34
microlithptl_demands_PR12: arguing in here or on TMO accomplishes nothing. no one in here can help your cause.22:34
lcuk(beer)22:34
Jaffare22:34
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lcukhey jaffa22:34
noobmonk3y_(beers >= Beer)22:34
lcukmicrolith, jaffa just turned up22:34
ptl_demands_PR12microlith: maybe, maybe not. There are nokia people here...22:34
dotblankIs it possible to put symbolic links or fifos in the MyDocs directory22:34
microlithptl_demands_PR12: you could always go to the competitor, and never know if you'll ever get an update22:34
* SpeedEvil is awaiting delivery of his Jaffa Cakes.22:34
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greenflydotblank: not while it's a fat32 file system22:34
lcukhe is elected member of your council22:34
Surfa"who cares if phone calls don't work or sms doesn't arrive, but ptl got his new pr1.2 *hooray*"22:34
noobmonk3y_whos council?22:34
Shapeshifterdotblank: afaik fat doesn't support those. just try.22:34
noobmonk3y_is he a tory? ;)22:34
lcuk^ yours ^22:35
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: that wouldn't be bugfixes at all22:35
noobmonk3y_tory cakes .... from now on.......22:35
SpeedEvildotblank: no22:35
SpeedEvildotblank: it isn't22:35
SpeedEvildotblank: for my music I worked around it22:35
* Arkenoi wants pr1.2 because abbra promised me that keyboard layout bug which prevents me from having different "blue" keys for different input languages will be fixed there22:35
noobmonk3y_actually i see jaffa as more of a green party man ;)22:35
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SpeedEvildotblank: I have /home/user/data as a 28G ext3 fs22:35
dotblankShapeshifter, I already did.. I thought it was because of the fat32 restriction...22:35
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: you're exaggerating... As I said, PR1.2 has been released -- in scratchbox.22:35
dotblankSpeedEvil, oh I could just mount a folder22:35
SpeedEvildotblank: I told tracker to also index /home/user/data/sounds/22:35
Surfaptl_demands_PR12, how much experience do you have on sw development?22:35
Surfabug fixes tend to have effects on working functionality too22:36
ptl_demands_PR12Surfa: about 5 years coding in C and C++22:36
dotblankwell the problem is that some of the menus ofor fuile selection wont give you acces to root22:36
Surfaand still you don't see my point? good god..22:36
Arkenoiwell, how do i install qt 4.6.2 now?22:36
noobmonk3y_lcuk,  healthcheck 1.0.0-0 in extras devel :D22:36
VDVsxArkenoi, ahha, that's good, I hope that guy is the dev working on that :p22:36
nidOevening all22:36
SpeedEvil# List of directory roots to index and watch (separator=;)22:36
SpeedEvilWatchDirectoryRoots=$HOME/data/sounds/;$HOME/MyDocs/.documents/;$HOME/MyDocs/.videos/;$HOME/MyDocs/.images/;$HOME/MyDocs/.camera/;22:36
noobmonk3y_hey nidO22:36
cehtehbtw, i never tried, is sip as well integrated in the phone app as skype?22:36
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Jaffanoobmonk3y_: Capitalism FTW. Actually, after the Digital Economy Bill mess, I'm pissed off with the lot of them.22:37
noobmonk3y_awwwwwwww22:37
fralsVDVsx: hows the radison seaside hotel in hel? youve stayed there yeah?22:37
SpeedEvilJaffa: It's OK. Just get a VPN to russia.22:37
JaffaVDVsx: Oh, btw, thoughts from Testing Squad on multiple QA repos welcome22:37
SpeedEvil:/22:37
noobmonk3y_Jaffa,  maemo party ftw? determined to ensure nokia deliver PR 1.2 on time? whenever that may be lol22:37
noobmonk3y_;)22:37
VDVsxfrals, is good, I'm here now ;)22:37
Jaffanoobmonk3y_: Some of the ideas from the Maemo community are more weird than the Greens' ;-)22:38
fralsVDVsx: cool :)22:38
noobmonk3y_lol very good point!22:38
fralsim coming over err22:38
dotblankSpeedEvil, does that make it possible for me to select files not on the fat32 partition?22:38
noobmonk3y_ooo frals going on another jolly? ;)22:38
dotblankSpeedEvil, Is there a way to set the file selection dialog to show root22:38
fralsVDVsx: landing in hel the 25th and leaving on the 27th22:38
fralsfancy a meet up? ;)22:38
SpeedEvildotblank: no - it means that tehy show up in programs that use the tracker - so all audio there pops up in music player22:38
timeless_mbpcehteh: yes22:38
SpeedEvildotblank: no idea.22:38
dotblankhmm22:38
timeless_mbpsip and skype integrated in the same way22:38
SpeedEvildotblank: why do you want it to22:38
cehtehthanks22:39
timeless_mbpyou tap on the 'cellular' item in the dialer and select sip instead of skype22:39
dotblankSpeedEvil, What I was going to try is make a random SMS alert22:39
* cehteh should setup a sip proxy22:39
timeless_mbpor you get another box in the contact that lets you dial the number w/ sip22:39
dotblankso I wanted to make a fifo that the program can use as its sound file22:39
timeless_mbpnote that if you have multiple sip gateways configured, things aren't as friendly22:39
timeless_mbpbut well… it's assumed you won't do that22:39
VDVsxfrals, good good, I'll be living next to that hotel, so poke me :)22:39
Gadgetoid_mbpShakawkaw kaw kaw kaka kaw, shakaka kaw kaw22:39
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cehtehtimeless: well i cant find how to ad-hoc call someone over sip without a contact22:39
dotblankThen make a while loop cat the random sound clip to the fifo in the background22:39
timeless_mbp(afaiu we don't support multiple concurrent skype accounts)22:39
timeless_mbpcehteh: from memory you can enter a non phone number into the dialer as long as you've selected sip instead of cellular in the drop down22:40
noobmonk3y_VDVsx, poking in helsinki, sounds like something tigerwoods would say22:40
SpeedEvildotblank: i recall a way from the command line to set the various sounds22:40
cehtehonly skype and phone here in the dropdown, no sip22:40
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SpeedEvildotblank: unfortunately, I've forgotten what it is22:40
SpeedEvilwas22:41
timeless_mbpcehteh: did you setup your sip account?22:41
dotblankhmm22:41
timeless_mbpif you mean sip w/o a sip account22:41
timeless_mbpyeah, we don't do that22:41
cehtehtimeless: no, but sip should work without, in the most basic way you can call to a ip address directly22:41
fralsVDVsx: will do :)22:41
dotblankwell If I can just get a link to the root folder where I can create fifos or symlinks i would be fine22:41
cehtehok :)22:41
VDVsxnoobmonk3y_, lolol22:41
noobmonk3y_:D22:41
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timeless_mbpcehteh: conceptually that part's just confusing :)22:42
dotblankI could try mounting a 1mb ext3 FS in a folder on the fat32 right/22:42
timeless_mbpi mean, i've had people try to explain it to me before, and clearly i can't remember it :)22:42
cehtehyeah i just install a sip proxy22:42
dotblankand make a fifo in it22:42
VDVsxtimeless_mbp, btw, still in HEL ?22:42
timeless_mbpVDVsx: 'still'?22:42
cehtehdotblank: yes22:42
timeless_mbpi just got back yesterday22:42
SpeedEvilcehteh: If you do the above - and setup sounds as I suggested - then you should be able to reach a soundfile on an ext3 partition . then make this a link22:42
timeless_mbpJaffa: 1.2 really zapped red pill, right?22:43
cehtehSpeedEvil: what?22:43
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VDVsxtimeless_mbp, ah lol, bad wording, we need to meet for beer one of these days :P22:43
timeless_mbpwell, hrm, it's ~11pm22:44
* timeless_mbp should go home22:44
* noobmonk3y_ still wants a beer22:45
VDVsxand it's very foggy :)22:45
timeless_mbpit's too dark to see much fog :)22:45
Jaffatimeless_mbp: Dunno, I thought PR1.1 did more of it in22:46
dotblankmounting /dev/loop0 on /home/user/MyDocs/SC1S/fifo/ failed: Invalid argument22:47
dotblankhmm why is that...22:47
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dotblankah forgot the type22:48
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timeless_mbpdotblank: you're trying to use a fat file system as a target for unix operations?22:50
dotblanknot quite22:51
dotblankI got around it by mounting a 1mb ext3 in the MyDocs directory with a symlink to root22:51
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timeless_mbpevil users are …. evil22:52
* SpeedEvil nods.22:52
SpeedEvilAlso - you don';t want a symlink to root22:53
SpeedEvilbut to /home/opt/ or wherever22:53
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dotblankhmm22:55
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dotblankfile manager crashes (freezes) when trying to access the folder that contains the mountpoint to the 1mb ext222:55
tripzerohow do i get autocomplete to "complete" using the osk?22:56
SpeedEviltripzero: tap the displayed word22:56
SpeedEviltripzero: on the text22:56
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SpeedEvilOn a related matter, can the osk do arrows?22:56
SpeedEvilthat is direciton rrows, not ><22:56
SpeedEvildirection22:56
tripzerodoesn't look like it22:56
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tripzerow00t, tapping word success!22:57
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meceInteresting. UAE compiles on arm but not on x8622:57
callkalpado you respond to all the GSoC applications or just select the most suitable one and drop the others?22:57
* noobmonk3y_ will bbl - beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer time22:58
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SpeedEvilI recall info on googles pages on it23:00
SpeedEvilI forget the process23:00
SpeedEvilmaybe google it.23:00
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dotblankah I forgot to mount it nosuid23:00
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w00t_X-Fade: ping23:01
X-Fadew00t_: pong23:02
dotblankHAHAHA it WORKS!!23:02
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w00t_X-Fade: not sure if you're the right person to ping, but just wondering if you got my builder invite request a short while ago.. I got a blank page when submitting it23:03
w00t_so dunno if I should do it again or not :P23:03
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* MohammadAG pings w00t_ 23:04
* w00t_ pongs23:04
MohammadAGPM :)23:04
* X-Fade clicks on invite for w00t23:04
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w00t_ah, it worked?23:04
w00t_X-Fade: thanks :)23:05
X-Fadew00t_: To lazy to look at my email :)23:05
X-Fadew00t_: Will let you know tomorrow, but the invite should be in your inbox.23:06
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w00t_X-Fade: thanks anyhow :)23:07
X-Fadenp23:07
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dotblankdoes the sort command in linux not have the option for random?23:13
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dotblankrather for busybox on the n90023:15
andre__randomsort?23:15
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dotblankyea.. Is that a command23:15
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andre__I wouldn't call random a sort.23:18
E0xindeed23:18
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dotblankwell I need to randomly sort output from a find command23:18
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ptl_demands_PR12dotblank: use 'shuf' in the shell23:21
ptl_demands_PR12dotblank: find ... | shuf23:22
dotblankptl_demands_PR12, You are awesome23:22
tripzerolol23:22
shvedskyptl_demands_PR12: wow, you really are!23:22
dotblankcrap shuf doesn't exist23:23
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dotblankhmm there is a package with that tool i think23:23
dotblankbinutils23:23
dotblankI believe23:23
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dotblankhmm that command doesn't exist23:25
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shvedskyon desktop linux it exists23:26
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dotblankyea23:28
* MohammadAG wonders if it's justified to use non-free till PR1.2 is released23:28
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joker_89hi23:41
joker_89anyone knows the syncml concepts?23:41
joker_89when an item is deleted from the db , how syncml knows that is a deleted item?23:42
joker_89becuase the database dont have the item and there isn't any mark that this item was deleted23:42
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MohammadAG~ping23:46
infobot~pong23:46
javispedrouuh: http://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking23:46
* MohammadAG thinks w00t_ is dead23:46
MohammadAG(dead as in IRC-dead)23:47
javispedrono need to clarify23:47
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w00t_:P23:47
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_llll_haha "echo $((`cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq`/1000)) MHz23:47
_llll_"23:47
_llll_wow, just wow23:47
_llll_i'd trust whoever wrote that to make sensible recomendations on my hardware23:48
frals~curse t.m.o23:49
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, t.m.o !23:49
fralsgreat feature, someone can send me a PM, but im not allowed to reply to it >_<23:49
javispedroclearly the sender is  too important to be replied to.23:49
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javispedropray.23:50
frals0-poster :<23:50
javispedroah, a noob god.23:50
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juliankIs there a reason why the libraries and programs on the rootfs do not match their md5sums (e.g.   usr/lib/libbz2.so.1.0.5: FAILED)?23:58
javispedroprelink?23:59
javispedro(wild guess)23:59
Arkenoihttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJpEuMidcSU&feature=player_embedded haha23:59

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