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| JamieBennett | Stskeeps: without wanting to change the subject of this channel, do you know why/why not certain SD cards/USB sticks work with the joggler? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| Stskeeps | not sure, i haven't met one yet | 00:02 |
| mece | hey people who knows things about penguins, how do I open a remote file over ssh in gedit from commandline? | 00:02 |
| mece | ssh:// or something? | 00:02 |
| JamieBennett | Stskeeps: I have a 16GB SDHC card in a USB reader adapter but no luck :( | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | JamieBennett: does it show as USB mass storage? | 00:03 |
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| JamieBennett | Stskeeps: where? (just got the joggler today) | 00:04 |
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| Stskeeps | JamieBennett: well, USB reader adapter may appear as a mmc reader and not usb mass storage, which the EFI might not like | 00:04 |
| mece | nvrmind, got it. | 00:04 |
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| JamieBennett | Stskeeps: UI is showing the 'USB' button lit in videos e.t.c and telling me 'no supported ...' are present on there so I would presume its seeing it but the telnet hack files I downloaded don't work. Do you have a link to something you use? | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | JamieBennett: ah, i have no idea about the original OS | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | i pretty much just installed Mer on it when i got it or other distributions :P | 00:06 |
| JamieBennett | Stskeeps: ah :) | 00:07 |
| Stskeeps | (it's first recently i really started hacking it, had it since december or so) | 00:07 |
| * JamieBennett got it today via a £50 offer :) | 00:08 | |
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| nidO | a £50 offer? | 00:08 |
| JamieBennett | nidO: The joggler is £50 in the UK for 2 weeks | 00:09 |
| nidO | its £50 anyway, and has been for ages | 00:09 |
| Stskeeps | was 99 before | 00:09 |
| JamieBennett | nidO: Umm, in the UK O2 are discounting it for 2 weeks 'only' | 00:09 |
| nidO | its been £49.99 for a while, I got one for my mum at the beginning of feb at that price | 00:10 |
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| JamieBennett | nidO: ah, I only saw it due to the promotion and though it would make a good 'hacking' device | 00:11 |
| rm_you | wow, joggler looks neat | 00:12 |
| rm_you | especially if it would run Mer :P | 00:12 |
| rm_you | cept i would guess theres no chance of a US release or it working on US bands for my carrier :( | 00:12 |
| Stskeeps | not mobile | 00:13 |
| nidO | theres no bands | 00:13 |
| nidO | it hooks up to wifi | 00:13 |
| JamieBennett | rm_you: It runs Ubuntu Netbook which is far superior ;) | 00:13 |
| nidO | and isnt mobile | 00:13 |
| rm_you | oh, isn't O2 a cell provider? | 00:13 |
| nidO | yes | 00:13 |
| rm_you | ... | 00:13 |
| nidO | joggler isnt a cell device tho | 00:13 |
| rm_you | ooo.... k.... | 00:13 |
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| rm_you | random | 00:13 |
| rm_you | why is a cell company hawking a non cellular device? | 00:13 |
| GAN900 | Hey, rm_you | 00:13 |
| rm_you | that doesnt even make sense | 00:13 |
| rm_you | sup General | 00:13 |
| JamieBennett | 6 | 00:14 |
| nidO | same reason most companies sell more than one thing? | 00:14 |
| JamieBennett | doh | 00:14 |
| Stskeeps | rm_you: services | 00:14 |
| rm_you | yes but bagel companies don't sell office furniture >_> | 00:14 |
| rm_you | >_> | 00:14 |
| rm_you | <_< | 00:14 |
| GAN900 | rm_you, Ikea sells food. | 00:14 |
| rm_you | GAN900: srsly? | 00:14 |
| rm_you | like, food court? | 00:14 |
| GAN900 | They have restaurants, yeah | 00:14 |
| rm_you | or, they sell groceries? | 00:14 |
| rm_you | lol | 00:14 |
| GAN900 | and frozen food | 00:15 |
| GAN900 | both | 00:15 |
| rm_you | erk | 00:15 |
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| rm_you | ok that makes no sense as well :P | 00:15 |
| rm_you | then, wonder if i can get an O2 shipped here :P | 00:15 |
| rm_you | err | 00:15 |
| rm_you | O2 Joggler | 00:15 |
| GAN900 | eBay | 00:15 |
| mece | some people think the iPad is a great. The world is just wrong that way. | 00:15 |
| rm_you | wish i could put Mer on iPad :P | 00:15 |
| JamieBennett | rm_you: The joggler can SMS and has an IMEI number, does that make it easier to understand why O2 did it? | 00:15 |
| rm_you | JamieBennett: errrrrr WHAT> | 00:16 |
| rm_you | how does a non-cell device get an IMEI?: | 00:16 |
| rm_you | yes, though, it makes it easier if it has SMS built in | 00:16 |
| rm_you | though | 00:16 |
| JamieBennett | It has an IMEI | 00:16 |
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| JamieBennett | no voice but data | 00:16 |
| rm_you | how does it SMS? i realize it can just go through a web gateway, but don't you need a phone number for other people to respond? | 00:16 |
| rm_you | oh | 00:16 |
| GAN900 | rm_you's world is being shaken tonight | 00:16 |
| rm_you | so...it DOES have a cell chip? | 00:17 |
| JamieBennett | rm_you: yes | 00:17 |
| rm_you | SIM card? | 00:17 |
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| rm_you | ok then... | 00:17 |
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| JamieBennett | no sim, build it | 00:17 |
| rm_you | my previous statement: | 00:17 |
| JamieBennett | built | 00:17 |
| rm_you | "cept i would guess theres no chance of a US release or it working on US bands for my carrier :(" | 00:17 |
| rm_you | soooo | 00:17 |
| rm_you | that is accurate then | 00:17 |
| Stskeeps | no gsm chip | 00:17 |
| Stskeeps | i use it in poland too :P | 00:17 |
| rm_you | so it has a cell chip... that does data.... | 00:17 |
| rm_you | but... not on bands? | 00:18 |
| rm_you | wtf | 00:18 |
| JamieBennett | :) | 00:18 |
| JamieBennett | It even has a telephone number that you can't ring :) | 00:18 |
| rm_you | how does it connect to the cellular network | 00:18 |
| mece | Stskeeps, are you polish? | 00:18 |
| rm_you | without being on a "band" | 00:18 |
| * Jaffa assumed it was IP gatewayed | 00:18 | |
| Stskeeps | mece: no, married to one | 00:18 |
| rm_you | but while having a cellular chip | 00:18 |
| mece | Stskeeps, :) | 00:18 |
| * mece should go to poland again. | 00:19 | |
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| rm_you | so you're telling me... you do not have to deal with a cellular network, but it gets cellular data and has a number somehow? | 00:20 |
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| nidO | no idea what anyone else is telling you as im semi afk, but it just sends messages through o2's web gateway | 00:20 |
| nidO | via the wifi connection | 00:20 |
| rm_you | so does it or does it not have a cellular chip in it? | 00:21 |
| nidO | no | 00:21 |
| rm_you | but it has an IMEI? | 00:21 |
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| nidO | not that I know | 00:21 |
| rm_you | ok. | 00:21 |
| JamieBennett | nidO: it has an IMEI | 00:21 |
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| * JamieBennett goes to find out the links | 00:21 | |
| microlith | why would a device with no cellular radio have an IMEI? | 00:22 |
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| rm_you | microlith: thats what i'm trying to comprehend | 00:22 |
| rm_you | from site: Get a 1/2 price Pay & Go Mobile Broadband dongle with the Joggler. Offer available at checkout | 00:22 |
| rm_you | maybe it is with *that* it has an IMEI | 00:22 |
| JamieBennett | first link http://forum.o2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=19520&sid=e3531785b7c65296196f8fcc30e33a66 | 00:22 |
| rm_you | and celldata | 00:22 |
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| microlith | well in that case it'd be the dongle that has the IMEI | 00:23 |
| microlith | although I would like one of these Jogglers, especially at the price they were asking | 00:23 |
| * lbt wonders if O2 *might* have a big system capable of accepting/sending SMSes and then sending them over IP to a client | 00:23 | |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: cell networks are over ip internally anyway i guess | 00:24 |
| rm_you | yeah, they are | 00:24 |
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| rm_you | i mean, you can email something like #######@tmomail.net and it sends to the ####### phone | 00:24 |
| kynky | atm ? | 00:24 |
| lbt | yeah - I'm sure the joggler SMS is all done over client/server to O2 systems | 00:24 |
| rm_you | for tmobile numbers | 00:24 |
| rm_you | it works for most other carriers too if you look up the right address | 00:25 |
| rm_you | Openpeak looks interesting as well | 00:25 |
| lbt | no, you enter a mobile # into the joggler sw client. It sends it to O2 and they send it to the phone | 00:25 |
| lbt | and you pay for that | 00:25 |
| * Jaffa 's Joggler box lists an IMEI. | 00:26 | |
| lbt | I'll guess they send the MAC during initial setup and get returned an IMEI | 00:26 |
| microlith | rm_you: now if only openpeak would sell directly, and not just via carriers :/ | 00:26 |
| Jaffa | None on the device itself AFAICT | 00:26 |
| lbt | or it could be done pre-shipping Jaffa | 00:26 |
| JamieBennett | rm_you: O2 Joggler is rebranded OpenPeak | 00:26 |
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| rm_you | yeah, noticed on the forum, thats how i just found openpeak :P | 00:26 |
| JamieBennett | :) | 00:27 |
| rm_you | this stuff looks AMAZING | 00:27 |
| lbt | Jaffa: you like? | 00:27 |
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| rm_you | omg with Mer or MeeGo on it.... | 00:27 |
| * rm_you drools | 00:27 | |
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| Jaffa | lbt: shiny, but will be nicer with as polished, but more open, OS | 00:27 |
| rm_you | LOL their pic of someone holding the OpenTablet is SOOOOOO badly photoshopped | 00:28 |
| lbt | Jaffa: heh | 00:28 |
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| rm_you | http://www.openpeak.com/images/OpenTablet/OpenTablet7Hands_593x428.jpg | 00:28 |
| rm_you | look at the right hand | 00:29 |
| rm_you | rofl | 00:29 |
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| rm_you | not to mention the colors/resolution of the tablet itself | 00:29 |
| rm_you | that's rediculous | 00:29 |
| rm_you | i could do better when i was in highschool | 00:29 |
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| mece | gimped! I can tell from the pixels! | 00:30 |
| rm_you | lol | 00:30 |
| mece | :) | 00:30 |
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| rm_you | thats not to say i don't WTF want one | 00:31 |
| rm_you | but :P | 00:31 |
| lbt | heh, looks like someone got confused by the table's cross-beam | 00:31 |
| lbt | well, night all | 00:31 |
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| * w00t_ has sexy, smooth list scrolling now, and is happy | 00:40 | |
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| SpeedEvil1 | how? | 00:42 |
| w00t_ | SpeedEvil1: what do you mean? :p | 00:44 |
| SpeedEvil1 | oh | 00:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://laughingsquid.com/a-2-5-year-old-uses-an-ipad-for-the-first-time/ | 00:54 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:09 |
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| w00t_ | noobmonk3y: try QtCore.Qt or something like that | 01:13 |
| w00t_ | btw | 01:13 |
| noobmonk3y | w00t_, thankee, will try it now :D | 01:13 |
| MohammadAG | oh noobmonk3y's back | 01:13 |
| MohammadAG | o/ | 01:13 |
| noobmonk3y | hehe brb 2 mins | 01:14 |
| w00t_ | SpeedEvil: you got scratchbox and/or facebook btw? | 01:14 |
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| Pforce | eye got ogre 1.7 build for n900 | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | w00t_: no. | 01:19 |
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| w00t_ | SpeedEvil: bah | 01:19 |
| w00t_ | you're no fun | 01:19 |
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| noobmonk3y | w00t_, module has no attribute WA_Maemo5ShowProgressIndicator when i try to call self.setAttribute(QtCore.WA_Maemo5ShowProgressIndicator, True) | 01:21 |
| noobmonk3y | should i remove the self? | 01:21 |
| dmj726_n9001 | ogre on maemo? | 01:21 |
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| Pforce | yup | 01:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: at OM we had no such problems, as OM the inc offered a 14day DOA warranty only. For Nokia or if I were Nokia, I'd actually implement a logger into NOLO and flasher to break a virtual seal wheh a non-signed kernel is flashed to the device | 01:22 |
| dmj726_n9001 | gles 1.1? | 01:22 |
| Pforce | trying to put this http://wiki.realxtend.org/index.php/Getting_Started_with_Naali | 01:22 |
| Pforce | on the device | 01:22 |
| Pforce | we use ogre and qt for the ui | 01:23 |
| Pforce | yeah gles 1 | 01:23 |
| Pforce | seems that it needed libGLES_GM | 01:23 |
| Pforce | so i installed libgles1 and got that | 01:23 |
| dmj726_n9001 | good to know we have ogre with 1.1 at the least. | 01:23 |
| dmj726_n9001 | think you might package it? | 01:24 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: the mere though of that worries me. a lot :) | 01:24 |
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| Pforce | havent run nothing concreate yet | 01:24 |
| Pforce | dmj726_n9001: i dont really know how :) | 01:24 |
| w00t_ | noobmonk3y: I'd assume it would be QtCore.Qt.WA_ ... | 01:24 |
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| Pforce | i get blank screen now, but the gles render system loads ok on ogre init | 01:24 |
| Pforce | and can show main window | 01:25 |
| Pforce | and nothing crashes :) | 01:25 |
| Pforce | i just cant get inworld due i dont see our ui | 01:25 |
| Pforce | which is another thing made with qt rendering to a image and we pass that to ogre to show | 01:25 |
| Pforce | so basically qt has paintEvents off | 01:25 |
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| Pforce | not even bothered about that atm, would like to try login | 01:25 |
| Pforce | shame that SDKs arm cant run the ui | 01:27 |
| Pforce | would be alot simpler to run there and try to debug | 01:27 |
| Pforce | than copying to the machine | 01:27 |
| Pforce | i could build everything again in x86 but there is alot of deps | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: me as well :-(( But those overclocking idiots seem to force things into that direction | 01:27 |
| Pforce | boost, poco, curl, pythonqt etc. | 01:28 |
| Pforce | and ogre the foremost | 01:28 |
| rm_you | Ogre is built for n900? | 01:28 |
| noobmonk3y | w00t_, , getting there setAttribute(QtCore.Qt.WA_Maemo5ShowProgressIndicator, False) doesnt work, and self. ..... means MainWindow doesnt have that attribute, will play around with it in the morning :D | 01:28 |
| Pforce | well, at least i built it :) | 01:29 |
| rm_you | nice | 01:29 |
| Pforce | not that hard tbh | 01:29 |
| rm_you | can start porting my PyOgre app to n900 :P | 01:29 |
| Pforce | some cmake modifications, googled a bit | 01:29 |
| w00t_ | noobmonk3y: any class that inherits QWidget has it | 01:29 |
| Pforce | this one guy had got pretty far but stopped for some reason | 01:29 |
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| w00t_ | so if MainWindow is a QMainWindow (or QWidget or something) it'll work | 01:29 |
| Pforce | rm_you: no guarantee this shows anything, i get blank main window | 01:29 |
| Pforce | could do some tests | 01:30 |
| Pforce | but hopped to our big virtual world viewer project right away | 01:30 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, so the retailers had the warranty risk then :) | 01:30 |
| noobmonk3y | w00t_, so in theory it should work with Main Window (self.centralwidget = QtGui.QWidget(MainWindow)) | 01:30 |
| noobmonk3y | :P | 01:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yep. And I always wondered how anybody could want to become a retailer | 01:30 |
| w00t_ | ask me tomorrow and I'll help you sort it I guess | 01:30 |
| Pforce | your setting yourself as your central window | 01:31 |
| * w00t_ is working (again) atm | 01:31 | |
| Pforce | doesent seem right :) | 01:31 |
| Wizzup | http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/ I assume/hope kbdd also works with n900? :) | 01:31 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah I want to use a kernel with connection tracking and other "harmless" stuff without voiding the warranty :/ | 01:31 |
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| noobmonk3y | lol cheers w00t_ :D | 01:31 |
| noobmonk3y | off to sleep, night alls :D | 01:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: a simple history in a reserved nand partition isn't that evil | 01:32 |
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| ShadowJK | make the kernel flasher sha1sum the image, send that+imei and image for unknown kernels to nokia on flash? :P | 01:34 |
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| ShadowJK | then they can datamine when/if lots of dead devices arrive | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | no way. you need to be able to flash when offline | 01:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just make the flasher write a uname -a plus md5 and a few other info to a logfile on a reserved partition, and sign the file | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually let NOLO do that | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus let kernel itself do that on 'tainted' | 01:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if you want to get fancy, store this info in modem's flash rather than main system NAND | 01:39 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: shut up! there are nokia employees here >:) | 01:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | hrhrrrhrr | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Or you just shake the phone on reception to see if the CPU has melted off the board, and is rattling round. | 01:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm *BAD* when I got to deal with idiocy | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't think anyone wants to see people screwing their phones, and then returning them. | 01:41 |
| Ken-Young | Are there known cases of the overclockers killing their phones? | 01:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Well - unless it's for reasons other than overclocking. | 01:41 |
| ShadowJK | Ken-Young, too early | 01:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: The datasheet seems to - for a part that seems analogous - say 20000 hours life at 600MHz | 01:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: At 900MHz - it might be plausible that the life might be 5000 hours. | 01:42 |
| javispedro | didn't someone also mention the magical "ubifs corruption" keywords? | 01:42 |
| ShadowJK | lifetime drops in half for the 500 -> 600 overdrive iirc | 01:42 |
| Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, But it probably depends on lots of things besides the chip itself. | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: actually probably not so much | 01:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: chip, and voltage are about it for that case. Thermal environment too. | 01:43 |
| Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, Really? I would have thought the environment around the chip would greatly effect how hot the chip ran when overclocked. | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | voltage current termal | 01:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: it's not how it runs that is at issue. | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: It's internal wear in the chip caused by operation at higher frequency. | 01:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: that over time results in an unstable chip. | 01:44 |
| microlith | is there a reason that an OMAP at 1GHz would last for a shorter time than an Intel at the same speed? | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's like electrons corrode the chip | 01:45 |
| Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, But it does just boil down (sorry) to how hot parts of the chip run, doesn't it? | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: no. | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: electromigration. | 01:45 |
| Ken-Young | Oh - I'm surrised to hear that. | 01:45 |
| microlith | like manufacturing differences between intel and ti? | 01:45 |
| Ken-Young | (surprised) | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | microlith: that depends on a million details | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Ken-Young: yes - heat has an effect - but it's also crudely the electrons push atoms out of the way as they flow past them. In vey fine wire, this can cause problems over time. | 01:46 |
| Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, So it's the voltage more than the temperature? | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | chip general technology (like 35nm), actual geometry, technology, material... | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | There are also other effects. For example, the issue might be temperature cycling. | 01:46 |
| Ken-Young | I guess I'll remove my muffin fan, then. | 01:47 |
| microlith | sure | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ken-Young: it's the current/area | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ken-Young: think of the wires like pipes, the transistors like valves, and the current like water with sand | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration is good | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | bad analogy, but somewhat you get the large picture this way | 01:49 |
| Ken-Young | SpeedEvil, DocScrutinizer Thanks. I was unaware that that was the issue. | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wonder if I'll find my electrochromatography analogon there in wiki | 01:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | otoh I don't probably care | 01:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd be more interested in a common chromosome of overclocker idiots XP | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | might yield an attack vector | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | (jk) | 01:54 |
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| javispedro | one thing I wonder is why each overclocking "achievement" is frontpage news for engadget and related sites | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | as mentioned above, I can get bad mad on dealing with idiocy | 01:55 |
| javispedro | I'm pretty sure they don't overclock their $1500 macbooks | 01:55 |
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| microlith | It's easy news, brings out the page views, and the forums make it easy to cite. | 01:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | let's do a math joggling: x = % of cpu clock on overall performance of a system. (wild guess: 30% - remaining 70% for mem-IO, gfx, etc pp), now if we overclock from 500MHz to a completely illusoric 1GHz, we obviously get an overall system performance gain of ~15%. No taking into account you usually neet at least a factor *1.75 to even notice any difference... | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | neeD | 02:01 |
| microlith | most people would probably get more responsiveness out of the changes in the transitions framerate thread | 02:01 |
| microlith | although I do wonder if my device would be stable with the 125MHz mode enabled... | 02:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | And the smmothness. | 02:02 |
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| Pforce | rm_you: i have rendering now, just logged into one of our servers | 02:03 |
| rm_you | :P woo | 02:03 |
| Pforce | seems to work :) | 02:03 |
| Pforce | ill take a pic soon | 02:03 |
| rm_you | nice | 02:04 |
| rm_you | how is the render speed | 02:04 |
| rm_you | ? | 02:04 |
| rm_you | compared to like | 02:04 |
| rm_you | well, anything else as long as you mention specs :P | 02:04 |
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| Pforce | well its getting all the stuff from the network | 02:04 |
| rm_you | like, FPS vs a desktop running the same prog | 02:04 |
| Pforce | meshes, prims, textures etc | 02:04 |
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| Pforce | cant really say yet | 02:04 |
| rm_you | wifi? | 02:04 |
| rm_you | k | 02:04 |
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| Pforce | yeah | 02:04 |
| Pforce | quite heavy content server at that too | 02:04 |
| rm_you | curious how well it renders the common open 3d engines | 02:04 |
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| AakashPatel | N900 have Nav yet? | 02:08 |
| *** bmidgley has joined #maemo | 02:08 | |
| AakashPatel | in Ovi | 02:08 |
| microlith | not yet | 02:08 |
| microlith | though there is Sygic | 02:09 |
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| w00t_ | open poll: facebook client for maemo, what should I call it? | 02:10 |
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| kynky | maebook ? | 02:11 |
| Ken-Young | facebrick? | 02:11 |
| crashanddie_ | w00t_: mistake | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehehe | 02:12 |
| w00t_ | facebrick is amusing | 02:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meestake | 02:12 |
| w00t_ | MohammadAG: facebrick it is. | 02:12 |
| w00t_ | Ken-Young++ | 02:13 |
| w00t_ | :P | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG | hahahaha | 02:13 |
| MohammadAG | LOL @ DocScrutinizer | 02:13 |
| crashanddie_ | w00t_: no really, another facebook client is just a mistake | 02:13 |
| crashanddie_ | w00t_: don't waste your time, get a real job | 02:13 |
| brik | the one that's already there isn't very good tho | 02:14 |
| jacekowski | i'm building chrome | 02:14 |
| jacekowski | properly in scratchbox | 02:14 |
| nidO | someone should really package up that transitions.ini set of tweaks and add a basic ui and reset option so people can toy round with their transitions without having to post asking what "cp" does every 2 minutes | 02:14 |
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| jacekowski | not using gentoo chroot | 02:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well face and F*** are quite similar ;-P 4 letters each | 02:16 |
| MohammadAG | f***book? | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG | would get some attention... | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | YES | 02:17 |
| MohammadAG | w00t_, ^ :P | 02:17 |
| w00t_ | haha | 02:17 |
| brik | fjesbok! give it a norwegian name | 02:18 |
| dmj726_n9001 | bookface? | 02:18 |
| brik | bookworm | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG | koobecaf | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | fielsfras? | 02:18 |
| kynky | fookbace | 02:18 |
| brik | that sounds kinky, kynky :P | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG | lmao | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | facecrook | 02:19 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | lol | 02:19 |
| brik | moocow | 02:19 |
| MohammadAG | moobook | 02:19 |
| brik | horseshit | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | pacehook | 02:20 |
| brik | spekeskinke | 02:21 |
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| kynky | koobecaf | 02:22 |
| kynky | damn repeated! fail | 02:22 |
| SpeedEvil_ | facelift | 02:22 |
| dmj726_n9001 | cafekoob | 02:22 |
| javispedro | can't believe nobody said lamebook yet | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | هراء | 02:22 |
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| kynky | cookbeaf | 02:23 |
| brik | I suggested assbook! | 02:23 |
| dmj726_n9001 | why is a facebook app needed? | 02:23 |
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| SpeedEvil_ | chucknorrisbook | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, BS | 02:23 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 02:23 |
| brik | dmj726_n9001: for the people who want to check facebook without bothering with the website with the tiny links? :< | 02:24 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | wow, hexxen II, nitdroid with touchscreen working, brain party... nice news | 02:24 |
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| nidO | brain party needs voting down tho | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, does this guy ever get sober? | 02:25 |
| dmj726_n9001 | what's wrong with brain party? | 02:25 |
| nidO | some of the puzzles occasionally massively lag it down and pretty much freeze the device | 02:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw, what's with numptyphysics for N900? | 02:30 |
| brik | I failed at that :< | 02:30 |
| dmj726_n9001 | numpy physics is great. | 02:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | last time I checked it was almost working, but lacking all of the stages, and had an issue with top systray bar | 02:32 |
| Pforce | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3589544/realxtend-naali-N900.png | 02:32 |
| Pforce | there we go, at least its something :) | 02:33 |
| Pforce | rm_you: ~10fps with that, so dont get your hopes up yet :) | 02:33 |
| javispedro | with fullscreen you'll probably double that | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | err? | 02:34 |
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| javispedro | (10 fps -> ~20fps) | 02:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no scaling/croping? | 02:34 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Pforce: wow. | 02:34 |
| javispedro | while a window is fullscreen the compositor is disabled | 02:35 |
| Pforce | javispedro: the qwidget that hold the ogre rendering should be full screen there | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | yo compositor | 02:35 |
| Pforce | or do you mean to go all the way fullscreen | 02:35 |
| Pforce | do i need a maemo window for that | 02:35 |
| javispedro | Pforce: all the way. the toplevel window should be fullscreen. | 02:35 |
| javispedro | Pforce: doubt it... | 02:35 |
| Pforce | just did Maximise() to the top level qwidget | 02:36 |
| Pforce | but yeah you might be right | 02:36 |
| javispedro | seeing the title bar is pretty specific symptom of a non fullscreen window ;P | 02:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and borked numptyphysics for N900 | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | ~ping | 02:43 |
| infobot | ~pong | 02:43 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: seriously, there are better keepalives than keeping the poor bot entertained :) | 02:46 |
| MohammadAG | haha, had some problems with my connection so I'm just checking lol | 02:46 |
| * MohammadAG likes where Fennec is headed http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2010/04/firefox-mobile-1-1-whats-coming/ | 02:46 | |
| haltdef | make it not painfully slow and I'm there | 02:46 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | howdy. | 02:47 |
| haltdef | ohi | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 02:48 |
| infobot | :), DocScrutinizer | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~good bot | 02:48 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: aw, gee | 02:48 |
| nidO | ~curse php | 02:48 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, php ! | 02:48 |
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| javispedro | clearly, the long-term memory storage capacity for a typical blogger is less than 5 years | 03:06 |
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| b-man|ubuntu | hmm, 8 hours later and my fedora install is almost done lol | 03:11 |
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| b-man|ubuntu | ~attack DocScrutinizer | 03:14 |
| * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing DocScrutinizer | 03:14 | |
| b-man|ubuntu | xD | 03:14 |
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| Tuxprobe | Hi again, anyone knows how to launch a browser window with a specified URL? could be from commandline - but is to be implemented in Gtk application? | 03:33 |
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| b-man|ubuntu | AakashPatel: ping | 03:38 |
| * MohammadAG is off | 03:39 | |
| MohammadAG | Night people | 03:39 |
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| AakashPatel | b-man|ubuntu: yoyo | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | Tuxprobe: dbus | 03:44 |
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| b-man|ubuntu | AakashPatel: what's up? :) | 03:49 |
| Tuxprobe | docscrutinizer-8 thx i found a description just now too :) | 03:49 |
| AakashPatel | b-man|ubuntu: Oh nothin really | 03:50 |
| AakashPatel | you | 03:50 |
| b-man|ubuntu | nothing completely new atm, setting up fedora on my N900 xD | 03:50 |
| b-man|ubuntu | attempting to make a cleaner port based off of Jebba's port | 03:51 |
| b-man|ubuntu | kinda like ubuntu-n8x0 | 03:51 |
| AakashPatel | ewwy | 03:51 |
| AakashPatel | lol | 03:51 |
| AakashPatel | why | 03:51 |
| b-man|ubuntu | because i can xD | 03:52 |
| b-man|ubuntu | and some people will enjoy it | 03:52 |
| AakashPatel | Hah | 03:53 |
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| acidjazz | so whats goin on | 03:54 |
| acidjazz | whena re we goin to #meego | 03:54 |
| b-man|ubuntu | AakashPatel: so how is your new job going? | 03:54 |
| AakashPatel | havent started yet xD | 03:55 |
| AakashPatel | Next week | 03:55 |
| b-man|ubuntu | ah xD | 03:55 |
| b-man|ubuntu | :) | 03:55 |
| b-man|ubuntu | i'll bet it will be fun :) | 03:55 |
| AakashPatel | Yeah :) | 03:56 |
| b-man|ubuntu | btw xnt14 is in Pakistan, but he'll be back on the 10th | 03:56 |
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| b-man|ubuntu | AakashPatel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAl28d6tbko | 04:00 |
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| b-man|ubuntu | i love that video xD | 04:00 |
| AakashPatel | lolwtf | 04:00 |
| AakashPatel | haha | 04:00 |
| b-man|ubuntu | xDDD | 04:00 |
| b-man|ubuntu | "Pad smoke - don't breath this!" xDDDD | 04:01 |
| godrik | hi guy. got a question for you about the GPS receiver in the N810. | 04:01 |
| b-man|ubuntu | i don't have an N810 | 04:02 |
| godrik | When I use maemo mapper, I don't get any fix at all. But when I use "nokia map", I got the fix almost immediatly | 04:02 |
| dmj726_n9001 | a good use for that device. | 04:02 |
| b-man|ubuntu | dmj726_n9001: Yes, Indeed! xD | 04:02 |
| godrik | is there a known issue about the n810 and maemo mapper ? Is there a way to "fix" maemo mapper ? | 04:03 |
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| godrik | or is there a better gps+mapping software ? | 04:03 |
| AakashPatel | b-man|ubuntu: N900 have nav yet? | 04:03 |
| b-man|ubuntu | yup | 04:04 |
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| b-man|ubuntu | although i can't remember the name of the software off the top of my head | 04:04 |
| AakashPatel | Err | 04:04 |
| AakashPatel | I meant Ovi maps nav | 04:04 |
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| b-man|ubuntu | ah | 04:05 |
| b-man|ubuntu | well | 04:05 |
| raster | burrp | 04:05 |
| b-man|ubuntu | it hasn't changed at all unfortunately \ | 04:05 |
| b-man|ubuntu | but | 04:05 |
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| b-man|ubuntu | there is some grally nice 3rd party nav software | 04:06 |
| b-man|ubuntu | *really | 04:06 |
| AakashPatel | cool | 04:06 |
| b-man|ubuntu | but i don't think it's free | 04:06 |
| AakashPatel | thats fine lol | 04:08 |
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| b-man|ubuntu | AakashPatel: http://www.sygic.com/index.php/en/press-releases/press-news/300.html | 04:10 |
| b-man|ubuntu | ;) | 04:10 |
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| AakashPatel | nice! | 04:27 |
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| ebzzry | Hi! Is /bin/bash provided by the bash3 package safe to be used as the default shell (via bash-setup)? | 05:30 |
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| SpeedEvil | no | 05:31 |
| ebzzry | SpeedEvil: Why? | 05:31 |
| SpeedEvil | The startup scripts run as user object for some reason | 05:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | you get a reboot loop | 05:32 |
| SpeedEvil | from memory | 05:32 |
| ebzzry | SpeedEvil: just to clarify, this is the `bash3' package, and not `bash' | 05:33 |
| SpeedEvil | dunno | 05:34 |
| SpeedEvil | try it, you may need to reflash | 05:34 |
| ebzzry | SpeedEvil: OK | 05:34 |
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| * GAN900 wants XChat to handle connection migrations better. | 06:08 | |
| SpeedEvil | '' | 06:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually, I want it to work like that other client that I've forgotten the name of that has a two part UI and engine connected over the net | 06:10 |
| SpeedEvil | pegasus? | 06:10 |
| SpeedEvil | naah | 06:10 |
| SpeedEvil | began with a p | 06:10 |
| AakashPatel | GAN900: Did anyone improve the UI yet? | 06:10 |
| AakashPatel | Of xchat | 06:11 |
| SpeedEvil | in what way? | 06:11 |
| AakashPatel | Eh, just make it look a little better on the N900's screen | 06:12 |
| AakashPatel | /a little easier to navigate | 06:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | I find it quite easy | 06:16 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4498439421/ | 06:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I've got it setup as | 06:16 |
| GAN900 | AakashPatel, a little. | 06:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | (without the obvious banner) | 06:17 |
| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, prefer the channel list on the bottom. | 06:17 |
| SpeedEvil | And with a few custom lists | 06:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Fair enough, I don't | 06:17 |
| AakashPatel | Alright | 06:17 |
| AakashPatel | I'm out | 06:17 |
| AakashPatel | Peace doods | 06:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd prefer it if the left bar could be made actual fixed width though | 06:17 |
| SpeedEvil | and the input box shrunk | 06:18 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | SpeedEvil: just use bnc with xchat then | 06:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | ythen dccs don't work | 06:19 |
| SpeedEvil | AIUI | 06:20 |
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| anotnac | omg a site that actually knows nokia tablet history unlike the sites reporting about new nokia tablet today http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2362333,00.asp | 06:58 |
| crashanddie | anotnac: except that they fail | 06:59 |
| crashanddie | anotnac: there has never been a device called the N770 | 06:59 |
| toresbe | It was a "Nokia 770", sure, but that's not the biggest failure in the world... | 06:59 |
| anotnac | one letter is better than missing out whole history and trying to make out nokia are only on tablet bandwagon b/c ipad | 07:00 |
| anotnac | lol | 07:00 |
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| anotnac | anyone ever listened to the ricky gervais show | 07:02 |
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| anotnac | got to lol about googles childishness http://gerrymoth.co.uk/?p=76 | 07:05 |
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| tank-man | what is google reader? | 07:12 |
| * slackmagic w00ts! Got his n900 rma replacement in the mail today. | 07:12 | |
| slackmagic | hopefully fmtx works on this unit | 07:12 |
| anotnac | i think its like a rss feeder | 07:12 |
| tank-man | yea | 07:13 |
| crashanddie | anotnac: could've been worse, they could've used auto-translate, and made it "Door map" | 07:14 |
| crashanddie | tank-man: RSS reader | 07:14 |
| crashanddie | anotnac: what ricky gervais show? | 07:15 |
| crashanddie | anotnac: also, don't feel like you have to post everything and anything you come across while browsing the web in this channel, thanks. | 07:16 |
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| RST38h | "After more than 4 years C is back at position number 1 in the TIOBE index. The scores for C have been pretty constant through the years, varying between the 15% and 20% market share for almost 10 years. So the main reason for C's number 1 position is not C's uprise, but the decline of its competitor Java. Java has a long-term downward trend." | 08:04 |
| * RST38h laughs satanically | 08:04 | |
| RST38h | Interesting that Delphi is still up there and going up. Is there even a supported compiler for Delphi? | 08:05 |
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| slonopotamus | RST38h: Does it go up in % or absolute numbers? | 08:09 |
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| RST38h | slono: %, afaik: http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html | 08:11 |
| crashanddie | RST38h: and in enterprise? | 08:14 |
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| crashanddie | "Wikipedia and YouTube are used to calculate the ratings" | 08:15 |
| slonopotamus | RST38h: so, C increase (in %) could just be caused by shrinking of smth else in absolite numbers. | 08:15 |
| slonopotamus | i doubt ppl _suddenly_ started coding much more C than before | 08:16 |
| crashanddie | slonopotamus: you didn't even read RST38h's quote? | 08:16 |
| crashanddie | slonopotamus: he bloody said it... "So the main reason for C's number 1 position is not C's uprise, but the decline of its competitor Java. Java has a long-term downward trend." | 08:16 |
| slonopotamus | hmm. yep | 08:17 |
| * slonopotamus needs coffee | 08:17 | |
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| slonopotamus | let's all code C then? :) | 08:18 |
| crashanddie | why? | 08:18 |
| crashanddie | use whatever suits you and your application's requirements | 08:18 |
| slonopotamus | well, "The index can be used to check whether your programming skills are still up to date or to make a strategic decision about what programming language should be adopted when starting to build a new software system." | 08:19 |
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| slonopotamus | nm, it's just random numbers. | 08:21 |
| crashanddie | slonopotamus: that's a bollocks statement, really | 08:21 |
| microlith | RST38h: Delphi's managed to find its way into a somewhat supported status, there's also a CLR compiler for it apparently | 08:21 |
| crashanddie | microlith: and XSLT is categorised as a "programming language" | 08:21 |
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| microlith | ? | 08:21 |
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| microlith | now I realize why I gave up on Delphi, beyond the disaster at borland | 08:23 |
| microlith | the cheapest uncrippled version you can get is $900 | 08:23 |
| slonopotamus | microlith: that's with IDE? | 08:25 |
| microlith | delphi is nothing without its IDE | 08:25 |
| microlith | It's never been available without one, at the very least | 08:26 |
| slonopotamus | same true for java, for ex. technically, you can write it in notepad, but that'll be a sad experience. | 08:26 |
| microlith | sure, you could write delphi in notepad as well | 08:26 |
| microlith | wouldn't envy anyone that tried | 08:26 |
| luke-jr | when I've written Java, I used Kate or Nano | 08:28 |
| luke-jr | I forget which | 08:28 |
| luke-jr | last time I had to change a Visual Basic app I did it in Kate as well | 08:29 |
| luke-jr | wrote a simple Makefile to compile with WINE | 08:29 |
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| slonopotamus | luke-jr: it's doable. but you could be faster if IDE assisted you with stuff like error highlighting, autocomplete and automatic refactorings. | 08:30 |
| luke-jr | yawn :) | 08:30 |
| microlith | I think the more important thing is that $900 is more than I am willing to spend to use a niche language | 08:30 |
| microlith | even if I did get started with programming in it | 08:30 |
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| luke-jr | yay for C | 08:31 |
| slonopotamus | microlith: well, you don't buy personal licenses, don't you? :) | 08:31 |
| microlith | slonopotamus: no, I'll use Free tools like GtkBuilder and Ruby :) | 08:31 |
| microlith | and, yes, C | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | GTK ftl | 08:32 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr: btw, why you were against glib, i forgot? i find it very useful and easy to use. especially unicode stuff. | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | don't know about Ruby, but I've decided to boycott it just to abandon the dependency | 08:32 |
| slonopotamus | and error reporting | 08:32 |
| microlith | luke-jr: I'm sure there are Qt bindings for it | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: because it's slow, bloated, and part of GTK | 08:32 |
| luke-jr | microlith: but I have no need for it | 08:33 |
| microlith | so you have no need for a GUI? | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | no need for Ruby | 08:33 |
| microlith | very well | 08:33 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr: it isn't 'part of gtk'. it's gtk dependency | 08:33 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: glib : GTK :: Qt Core : Qt | 08:33 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr: Qt is cpp, we're talking about C | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | Qt is its own language | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | glib code is not C | 08:34 |
| slonopotamus | i start to think you never used glib | 08:34 |
| luke-jr | if glib were C, there would be no type 'gchar' | 08:34 |
| RST38h | Really? | 08:35 |
| luke-jr | when you begin replacing the standard library, you're making a new language | 08:35 |
| slonopotamus | hehe. yep, their gxxx types is some madness | 08:35 |
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| slingr | woohooo | 08:46 |
| * simula hugs virtualbox | 08:47 | |
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| crashanddie | luke-jr: not sure I agree with that argument | 08:53 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: a bunch of libraries have implemented their own char classes (xerces does, but xerces is hardly a language on its own) | 08:53 |
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| slonopotamus | crashanddie: why gchar? | 08:54 |
| crashanddie | I dunno | 08:55 |
| slonopotamus | i can understand why they have own boolean. but gchar/gint? | 08:56 |
| slonopotamus | glib even has own define for NULL :) | 08:57 |
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| crashanddie | slonopotamus: so? | 08:58 |
| crashanddie | slonopotamus: is NULL = 0? Or 0x0? | 08:58 |
| * crashanddie facepalms | 08:58 | |
| crashanddie | sorry, bad example, those are the same | 08:59 |
| simula | heh | 08:59 |
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| crashanddie | slonopotamus: char makes a lot of sense actually. C-type char only supports 256 values, which is very much insufficient for UTF-8 | 09:00 |
| crashanddie | slonopotamus: example implementation of a char class: http://xerces.apache.org/xerces-c/apiDocs-3/XMLChar_8hpp-source.html | 09:00 |
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| slonopotamus_ | crashanddie: NULL is what stddef.h said. | 09:01 |
| crashanddie | the power of my arguments knocked you off the web | 09:01 |
| crashanddie | [16:00] <crashanddie> slonopotamus: char makes a lot of sense actually. C-type char only supports 256 values, which is very much insufficient for UTF-8 [16:00] <crashanddie> slonopotamus: example implementation of a char class: http://xerces.apache.org/xerces-c/apiDocs-3/XMLChar_8hpp-source.html | 09:02 |
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| slonopotamus__ | ... | 09:04 |
| slonopotamus__ | bad coverage :( | 09:05 |
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| * slonopotamus tries to remember how to kick slonopotamus | 09:05 | |
| crashanddie | second time that my arguments knocked you out of interwebural orbit | 09:05 |
| slonopotamus | crashanddie: :P | 09:06 |
| crashanddie | slonopotamus: /cs ghost ? | 09:06 |
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| slonopotamus | NickServ- You may not ghost yourself. :) | 09:08 |
| crashanddie | cock | 09:08 |
| crashanddie | I just added "slono" as the "External Reference" in one of my company's bug reports | 09:08 |
| mece | LOL | 09:09 |
| crashanddie | and Lotus Notes crashed | 09:11 |
| crashanddie | slonopotamus: bastard | 09:11 |
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| Whimsical11 | !list | 09:24 |
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| mece | list! | 09:26 |
| Whimsical11 | list! | 09:27 |
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| aspidites | what setting could possibly cause my volume to randomly fade out during phone calls without the ability to increase the volume? | 09:30 |
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| Whimsical11 | list! | 09:31 |
| aspidites | i have sent my phone to nokia twice, both times receiving it back in the same condition sent. they are now stating that (after flashing the firmware) that it is a problem in the settings, not my n900 | 09:31 |
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| Whimsical11 | Is this channel hosting any files/softwares for mobiles? | 09:33 |
| mece | aspidites, what is the problem? | 09:33 |
| mece | Whimsical11, no | 09:33 |
| Whimsical11 | thanks mece | 09:33 |
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| aspidites | mece: during a call, the volume fades out and only seems to increase after squeezing the phone neer the ear piece | 09:39 |
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| pillar__ | aspidites: they are playing with you | 09:39 |
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| aspidites | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6063 | 09:40 |
| povbot | Bug 6063: voice calls inaudible most of the time, but not through speakers or earplugs | 09:40 |
| aspidites | why is it so hard to get a replacement phone? or at the very least, have them fix my BROKEN phone...oops device that happens to be able to make calls | 09:40 |
| mece | aspidites. I had that at first. fixed in pr1.1 for me. | 09:41 |
| mece | go figure. | 09:41 |
| aspidites | mece: i thought it was firmware originally which is why i waited for new firmware. no version has fixed it | 09:41 |
| aspidites | they just send me my phone back reflashed and stil broken | 09:41 |
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| mece | ok. seems you have the hw problem then. | 09:42 |
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| aspidites | mece: could you tell nokia that please? | 09:44 |
| aspidites | apparently they are convinced it's a "setting" | 09:44 |
| aspidites | how many times do they want to flash my phone before they are convinced its not a setting? | 09:45 |
| mece | a setting they couldn't fix apparently. | 09:45 |
| * aspidites done ranting | 09:45 | |
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| mece | aspidites, flashing normally doesn't remove settings though. | 09:45 |
| aspidites | more like setting me off | 09:45 |
| mece | aspidites, settings are stored on the emmc | 09:45 |
| aspidites | mece: how does flashing the emmc NOT remove settings? | 09:45 |
| aspidites | i've flashed both numerous times | 09:45 |
| mece | aspidites, that does. | 09:45 |
| aspidites | :P | 09:46 |
| mece | aspidites, to which nokia have you sent it? | 09:46 |
| aspidites | US | 09:46 |
| aspidites | Palco something or other | 09:46 |
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| mece | aspidites, I hear nokia us are dicks. | 09:47 |
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| * pupnik pokes channel | 09:48 | |
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| * ds3 throws dosboxes at pupnik | 09:49 | |
| aspidites | mece: funny because of all the people i spoke to, only one had a fine grasp of English. I imagine I get transfered to an outsourced call center every time | 09:49 |
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| pupnik | morning mece. wonder who is the first to fry a n900 with OCing :) | 09:49 |
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| mece | pupnik, I'm surprised no one has done it yet. | 09:52 |
| pupnik | the mtbf of 50k at 600mhz is quite a lot of hours . assuming 24k hours mtbf overclocked and 24h oc'd use per week yields 20 years (1000 weeks) | 09:53 |
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| mece | pupnik, do we know that, or are we still talking about 3530 numbers? | 09:54 |
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| pupnik | not a known figure | 09:55 |
| fqhuy | hi , this is the output after I ran the start_xephyr.sh http://pastebin.com/AfG9wdby | 09:55 |
| pupnik | just saying it would be 2 years at 2,400 | 09:56 |
| fqhuy | the window is blank | 09:56 |
| fqhuy | I'm running maemo in Fedora 12, Selinux disabled | 09:56 |
| fqhuy | http://www.alphatek.info/2010/02/13/install-the-nokia-n900-maemo-5-sdk-on-fedora/ I have followed this article and succesfully installed Maemo SDK, scratchbox.. | 09:57 |
| pupnik | dunno fqhuy - google the error msg | 09:58 |
| pupnik | maybe someone else knows... | 09:58 |
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| aspidites | non-nokia related question: is anyone having problems with pygame + sound? i'm trying to port a game i'm working on but the soound just keeps 'popping' | 10:00 |
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| pupnik | perhaps play with uffer size. check with oprofile to see if some thread is consuming too much cpu | 10:01 |
| mece | fqhuy, did you run af-sb-<something> start | 10:01 |
| pupnik | buffer | 10:01 |
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| fqhuy | mece: no, not yet | 10:02 |
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| * pupnik eagerly awaits new gcc | 10:05 | |
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| slackmagic | damn am I relieved the fmtx is working on this replacement unit. Finally I get to fully enjoy the n900 | 10:20 |
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| mece | wtf... has there been some big cleanup in the repos? libglibmm and libgtkmm are not there anymore... | 10:22 |
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| RST38h | "The house-sized battery can hold four megawatts of power for up to eight hours." | 10:31 |
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| RST38h | Presidio, Texas <== you know where to lay the explosives now | 10:31 |
| RST38h | Actually, shorting it will probably work even better =) | 10:32 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | Presidio????? | 10:42 |
| * ptl_demands_PR12 is going to eat his sandwich soup | 10:44 | |
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| bleader | oh, we can't sync additional calendars in google calendar to n900 :( | 10:50 |
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| Zeddy | anyone figured out how to use the qt creator 2.0 to deploy directly onto the device without the use of madde | 11:07 |
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| lcuk | zeddy is using scratchbox cheating? | 11:09 |
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| Zeddy | once they get scratchbox to run in a windows enviroment i might think about using it again | 11:10 |
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| Zeddy | then again.. last time i used scratchbox the app looked fine while developing, after deploying and runinng on the n900 it was a total mess | 11:10 |
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| noobmonk3y | zeddy, using vmware it took me about 20 mins to get scratchbox in a windows environment, ish :D | 11:13 |
| Zeddy | you mean by running ubuntu in vmware and running scratchbox in ubuntu? | 11:13 |
| nidO | took me about 5 minutes to do the same with virtualbox :> | 11:14 |
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| Zeddy | but that doesn't change the fact that scratchbox lied to me | 11:15 |
| Zeddy | and i will hate it forever | 11:15 |
| noobmonk3y | :D | 11:15 |
| noobmonk3y | hehe | 11:16 |
| noobmonk3y | or in my case, just code on the device | 11:16 |
| noobmonk3y | alot less hassle | 11:16 |
| Zeddy | what the hell | 11:16 |
| noobmonk3y | :D | 11:16 |
| Zeddy | you cant be all that productive | 11:16 |
| Zeddy | :P | 11:16 |
| noobmonk3y | pyqt | 11:16 |
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| nidO | speaking of which, healthcheck new version + testing = when? :D | 11:16 |
| noobmonk3y | lol ok its not the greatest app - but healthcheck is done in idle and on the device | 11:16 |
| noobmonk3y | nidO, - this morning :D | 11:16 |
| noobmonk3y | removing apps, adding a loading bar | 11:17 |
| Zeddy | btw.. is it hard to create a background service for the device, which would listen to incomming messages and parse them? | 11:17 |
| Zeddy | and no im not thinking about creating something illegal.. :P | 11:17 |
| nidO | whats actually in the apps section at the moment? | 11:17 |
| noobmonk3y | nidO, lists all apps on the device, but doesnt do anything else yet | 11:18 |
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| noobmonk3y | Zeddy, daemon? - not tried but the parsing, and reading of messages is doable :D - DBUS can grab em | 11:18 |
| lcuk | noobmonk3y, how much does your app depend on non qt components, can it run on general linux or on windows even? | 11:18 |
| noobmonk3y | lcuk, all of the info boxes are maemo specific, the app itself loads up fine on windows - if i do not call those functions | 11:19 |
| lcuk | cool | 11:19 |
| noobmonk3y | some of it even works on linux lol | 11:19 |
| lcuk | yeah :) | 11:19 |
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| noobmonk3y | :D :D | 11:19 |
| Zeddy | i have a feeling that nmake is running in cirkles | 11:19 |
| Zeddy | i keep seeing the same actions | 11:20 |
| Zeddy | and its been running for 15 minutes | 11:20 |
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| * noobmonk3y wears again at tbhe lack of pyqt on tinterweb | 11:27 | |
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| noobmonk3y | swears* tbhe* | 11:28 |
| noobmonk3y | omg | 11:28 |
| noobmonk3y | one day i promise i will learn to type :D | 11:28 |
| d14 | :) | 11:29 |
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| nidO | noobmonk3y - still looking for things to include into healthcheck? | 11:33 |
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| noobmonk3y | allways open to help and advice :D | 11:35 |
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| nidO | not so much an actual health checking function, but altering hildon's transition settings does wonders for the smoothness of navigation - there's a thread containing a settings file someone's done, but its flooded with "wat does cp do" and similar from people wanting to use it - how about a function to replace /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini with a customised version, and the option to restore a backed-up copy of the default, and a | 11:37 |
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| noobmonk3y | :|? lol! | 11:37 |
| nidO | that should be simple to code, only needs a couple of cp's and echoing the file via a ui to change it | 11:37 |
| noobmonk3y | no idea what you mean though? - the only transitions are between tabs? | 11:38 |
| nidO | not transitions within healthcheck, within the entire hildon ui | 11:38 |
| lcuk | nidO, theres an app for that! | 11:38 |
| nidO | as in, a button in healthcheck thats "click here to improve transitions loads" or something, then a "click here to restore transitions to defaults" | 11:38 |
| nidO | that each just replace transitions.ini with a customised or the original version respectively | 11:39 |
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| lcuk | http://maemo.org/packages/view/transitioncontrol/ | 11:39 |
| nidO | that's never gotten out of -devel though | 11:39 |
| lcuk | only thing it misses are restore buttons | 11:39 |
| lcuk | ahh wel :) at least the info is there and documented | 11:40 |
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| noobmonk3y | lol!!! | 11:40 |
| noobmonk3y | got the loading bar loading, does nothing at sits there :P geeeeeeenius | 11:40 |
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| fqhuy | hi, anyone please help me. it took me half day, and I still cannot get Maemo SDK working on my Fedora 12 | 11:44 |
| fqhuy | http://pastebin.com/THusz550 this is the eror | 11:44 |
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| fqhuy | plz plz plz | 11:44 |
| * Arkenoi wonders if SElinux problem will ever be fixed | 11:45 | |
| fqhuy | Arkenoi: Selinux is disabled | 11:46 |
| fqhuy | how can I develop software for maemo, if the SDK doesnt want me to install it | 11:47 |
| Appiah | try starting the scratchbox first | 11:48 |
| Appiah | /scratchbox/start or something | 11:48 |
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| fqhuy | Appiah: /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start” you means this one ? | 11:49 |
| Appiah | umm | 11:49 |
| fqhuy | already started with root permission | 11:49 |
| Appiah | dont have it ifront of me but its somewhere there /scratchbox/bin maybe | 11:49 |
| Appiah | this was all in the docs.. | 11:49 |
| Appiah | $ /scratchbox/login | 11:49 |
| Appiah | http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5-0_installation/ | 11:50 |
| Appiah | there you go | 11:50 |
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| MiXu- | I'm using the Maemo SDK virtual machine image. I just run /usr/bin/scratchbox | 11:51 |
| MiXu- | or actually just 'scratchbox' because it's in path | 11:52 |
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| MiXu- | looks like it's a bash script though | 11:52 |
| fqhuy | Appiah: Fatal server error: | 11:53 |
| fqhuy | Cannot establish any listening sockets - Make sure an X server isn't already running | 11:53 |
| fqhuy | that is the Error when I tried to start Xephyr | 11:53 |
| Appiah | fqhuy: did the scratchbox start? | 11:54 |
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| fqhuy | Appiah: how can I check it, I have run the command | 11:54 |
| noobmonk3y | lcuk, is there a sleep command in python? other then | 11:54 |
| Appiah | /scratchbox/login | 11:54 |
| noobmonk3y | bb = 'run-standalone.sh sleep 5' | 11:54 |
| noobmonk3y | b = os.popen(bb) | 11:54 |
| noobmonk3y | b.close() | 11:54 |
| fqhuy | /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl start this one | 11:54 |
| Appiah | fqhuy: NO | 11:54 |
| Appiah | 10:52 < Appiah> /scratchbox/login | 11:54 |
| marmoute | noobmonk3y: time.sleep | 11:54 |
| noobmonk3y | yay thankee | 11:54 |
| marmoute | noobmonk3y: os.popen is "evil" use the subprocess module (but use time.sleep here) | 11:55 |
| noobmonk3y | :D :D :D | 11:55 |
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| fqhuy | Appiah: according to the document, I have to start Xephyr first | 11:56 |
| fqhuy | then /login | 11:56 |
| Appiah | fqhuy: not the one I'm reading | 11:56 |
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| Appiah | fqhuy: and thats not how I've been starting it | 11:56 |
| fqhuy | Starting/shutting down the SDK UI, Appiah you mean this section ? | 11:56 |
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| Appiah | fqhuy: just try it ok? | 11:57 |
| fqhuy | no, not ok at all | 11:58 |
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| fqhuy | already running | 11:58 |
| Appiah | Under section 1. it says /scratchbox/login | 11:58 |
| Appiah | Under Section 2 | 11:58 |
| Appiah | Xephyr | 11:58 |
| Appiah | which installer did you use? | 11:58 |
| SpeedEvil_ | Is there a way of setting kernel cmdline other than flahs: | 11:59 |
| SpeedEvil_ | ? | 11:59 |
| fqhuy | Appiah: GUI installer | 11:59 |
| fqhuy | I have run it dozen times before I can get the SDK installed | 12:00 |
| Appiah | o_O | 12:00 |
| Appiah | What dist are you installing on? | 12:00 |
| fqhuy | Fedora 12 | 12:01 |
| Appiah | Did you logout/login after install of the SDK? | 12:01 |
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| fqhuy | Appiah: I even reboot system | 12:02 |
| fqhuy | Grlll ~X( | 12:02 |
| Appiah | and you got no errors installing? | 12:03 |
| fqhuy | Appiah: yep | 12:03 |
| MiXu- | fqhuy: Do you have /usr/bin/scratchbox ? | 12:04 |
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| * DocScrutinizer moos furiously | 12:05 | |
| fqhuy | MiXu-: no, I dont have it | 12:05 |
| fqhuy | I changed the location to /opt/scratchbox | 12:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>Poll: Do you think its possible to overclock the N900?!<< WAAAAH, where's my LART | 12:05 |
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| * nidO hefts his lart | 12:06 | |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: 1200MHz FTW! | 12:06 |
| * DocScrutinizer constructs a railgun to shoot each and every overclocker with his own uberlightspeed N900 | 12:07 | |
| * fqhuy crying now | 12:07 | |
| fqhuy | dont know why, but it;s working now with DISPLAY=3 | 12:08 |
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| fqhuy | I have started another Xephyr in DISPLAY 3 | 12:08 |
| * X-Fade can't find the nice Omap3 frequency/voltage MTBF chart anymore :( | 12:08 | |
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| fqhuy | Appiah: thanks | 12:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: use a church of scientology paper instead, where there's clearly prrved everything is possible if only >5% of the population believes in it | 12:09 |
| MiXu- | fqhuy: I have this script in /usr/bin that I use to start it: http://pastebin.com/2JdwZJ1h | 12:09 |
| Appiah | fqhuy: ah nice | 12:10 |
| MiXu- | Oh it works now. Never mind then :) | 12:10 |
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| fqhuy | Appiah: MiXu- I think all the article for Maemo SDK on F12 is a little bit outdate, because of the new installer script . | 12:11 |
| alicemirror | hi to all, I'm new on this cannel. Enrico, Turin, IT | 12:12 |
| alicemirror | :D | 12:12 |
| fqhuy | I have to fix the script by myself | 12:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Hello Mr It. | 12:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia! in a mass poll 83% voted "it's possible to overclock the N900". NOW FIX THAT! | 12:13 |
| * SpeedEvil creates a poll for 4+4=7 | 12:14 | |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: That poll's just like brainstorm. Crowdsourced stupidity ;-) | 12:14 |
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| nidO | Jaffa the problem is though most people who've voted yes have probably followed the instructions on how to do it like the sheep they are, without understanding what theyre doing | 12:17 |
| nidO | so theres a potential 500 timebomb n900's walking round that will be back to the forums crying sooner or later when their device dies | 12:17 |
| X-Fade | Wait for the first one to melt his display because of running the cpu so hot :) | 12:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: are there any more detailed info from Nokia internal tests available, which possibly could put an end to this insanity? | 12:19 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: Don't ask me. No idea. | 12:19 |
| X-Fade | But I once saw this Ti doc when the android guys were doing the same overclocking. | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: I ask you to ask the right people ;-D | 12:19 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: At the summit it was told that the voltage increase was the worst part, iirc. | 12:20 |
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| noobmonk3y_ | nidO, to be fair with or without overclocking there will be wingers in the forum :P | 12:23 |
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| nidO | yes, but 500 more who we can already see will be back to whine because of their own messing with the device is 500 it'd be nice not to have | 12:24 |
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| pupnik | i appreciate voluntary OC testers | 12:25 |
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| noobmonk3y_ | :P | 12:25 |
| pupnik | bbl | 12:26 |
| Appiah | why do you need to overclock? | 12:26 |
| noobmonk3y_ | is it me or is there no width and height settings for QtGui.QProgressDialog .... just seems to do what it wants :| | 12:26 |
| noobmonk3y_ | Appiah, theres reasons for and against, i dont see the point, people people will always want to try new things, because they can | 12:26 |
| noobmonk3y_ | cya pupnik | 12:26 |
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| Appiah | noobmonk3y_: well ofcourse | 12:27 |
| Appiah | just asking if there was a specific goal | 12:27 |
| noobmonk3y_ | Some seem to say it makes the device smoother...... | 12:27 |
| noobmonk3y_ | meh | 12:27 |
| nidO | well, people actually intelligent enough to do it themselves are geeky enough to just try it and see what happens | 12:28 |
| MiXu- | afaik a lot of the ui stickyness is due to swapping | 12:28 |
| nidO | but then all the people on the forum just following the instructions and who have no clue, are just "wauw free upgradez!" syndrome | 12:28 |
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| nidO | 900 > 600 so must be good to overclock, rite | 12:28 |
| nidO | etc | 12:28 |
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| Kurppa_ | Swapping is the main cause. Well, memory leaks and swapping. | 12:29 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | there were a lot of seemingly well thought, intelligent, informed comments on the overclocking thread in tmo. | 12:29 |
| nidO | there are, but theyre interspersed with tons of "how duz flasher wurk" type posts as well | 12:30 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | so I don't think it's like that... | 12:30 |
| nidO | these people will end up with bricked phones and no clue why. | 12:30 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | I haven't overclocked mine because... guess what? I am first waiting for PR1.2. :P | 12:30 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | after that, I will do it. | 12:30 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | My N900 never gets warm with his current clock and also from the stats spends just too few time on 600 MHz. | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ptl_demands_PR12: wellinformed compared to which scale? | 12:31 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | So it seems it has room for a few upclocks... | 12:32 |
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| MiXu- | mine does get warm on 600MHz | 12:32 |
| X-Fade | MTBF will shorten quite a bit. But then it is just a statistic. You might be the lucky one or not ;) | 12:33 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | DocScrutinizer: mostly insightful comments from people who consider things like heating up the CPU, time during high clocks and such. From the words and discourse, I can guess they have overclocking experience. | 12:33 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | DocScrutinizer: but it's just a guess, an impression, I can't prove, and you should read the comments by yourself. | 12:33 |
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| X-Fade | ptl_demands_PR12: Heat and electronmigration are the killers iirc. | 12:34 |
| nidO | problem is, they have the kiddy oc-ing experience that comes with modern motherboards and x86 cpu's with plenty of safeguards built in, and where the only significant factor in failure is heat, rather than electromigration | 12:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | ptl_demands_PR12: I don't need this rant and gibberish and handwaving. I am EE with quite some decades of professional experience | 12:34 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | nidO: those are good arguments while I was just trying to tell an impression from what I've read - not more than a few pages. Maybe you should tell them there. | 12:35 |
| SpeedEvil | MiXu-: The CPU does not - at 600MHz - use much power. | 12:35 |
| dneary__ | hi | 12:36 |
| MiXu- | SpeedEvil: Yeah, I know. A lot of the heat probably comes from the battery and the display. | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Battery - almost none | 12:37 |
| SpeedEvil | display + something is equal to CPU at 100% utilisation at 600MHz | 12:37 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | well, I am sort of lucky for PR1.2 delaying so much. | 12:37 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | at the time when it arrives, by the impression you give me, there will be dozens of cases of overclocking going bad | 12:38 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl_demands_PR12: but... | 12:38 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | and I'll be able to read them on the forum and refrain from following the crowd :D | 12:38 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl_demands_PR12: how many of these will be 'my n900 doesn't work, replace plz' | 12:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | and how many will admit openly that they have been overcocking. | 12:39 |
| _berto_ | overcocking ? | 12:39 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | good point... | 12:39 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | well, you've got to be really cocky for making you cellphone run 50% faster, _berto_ | 12:39 |
| SpeedEvil | And further how many will ome back and post 'oops' | 12:39 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: as long as it gives the lemmings street credibility on tmo... | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | ptl_demands_PR12: you seem to never get it, no? There's no such thing like melting, and OC doesn't mean your device will '*POOOF*' - it's like it stops proper operation in special cases *a few weeks or months _after* you started OC | 12:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even if you finished doing that at that time | 12:40 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil <-- seriously considers tmo forum members smart | 12:40 |
| MiXu- | I hope the first failed devices are heard from real soon, until everyone has oc'd their device. | 12:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Some TMO forum members are smart. | 12:40 |
| nidO | MiXu-: chances are they wont be | 12:40 |
| MiXu- | nidO: Yeah, as DocScrutinizer explained. | 12:41 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Statistically insignificant "some" nowadays | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | droid people were going through the same thing in Jan :) | 12:41 |
| SpeedEvil | My contention is that it is so hard to read a - say - 45 page thread. | 12:41 |
| RST38h | XFade: Have they melted down by now? | 12:41 |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: Don't know, did not read through the also insanely long threads there ;) | 12:42 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | DocScrutinizer: yes, I understand, and it shortens the life of the components and such, which might take months, *but* if that is as bad as you say, one could hope that at least some cases would go bad in the beginning. | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 12:42 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | DocScrutinizer: there was also a joke, a subtle joke, about PR1.2 taking months to arrive... | 12:43 |
| lcuk | ptl_demands_PR12, most people who boost their processors are running speed check things and toys to "check if it works" the equivilent of kicking the tyres | 12:43 |
| SpeedEvil | It may be that in practice - all shipped processors will last for 12 years running 100% at 1GHz | 12:43 |
| lcuk | its only once they *forget* they overclocked and have a random failure days/weeks down the line | 12:43 |
| SpeedEvil | And the worst you get is instability | 12:43 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | anyway | 12:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Or it might be that they will last 5000 hours at 900MHz 10% of the time | 12:44 |
| SpeedEvil | we can't tell yet | 12:44 |
| Pforce | some updates on my ogre n900 project :) | 12:44 |
| Pforce | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3589544/realxtend-naali-N900-audi-world-1.png | 12:44 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | as soon as Meego is stable, Nokia is releasing their new device | 12:44 |
| Pforce | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3589544/realxtend-naali-N900-audi-world-2.png | 12:44 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | so I don't have that much incentive to make my N900 have a long life | 12:44 |
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| Pforce | ogre 1.7 with gles rendering system | 12:44 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | maybe he's best being adventurous, living short and fast | 12:44 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl_demands_PR12: Vote for all n900 users getting a free upgrade. | 12:45 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | s/he's/it's/ | 12:45 |
| infobot | ptl_demands_PR12 meant: maybe it's best being adventurous, living short and fast | 12:45 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | SpeedEvil: lol | 12:45 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Pforce: seems nice, but what's this blank car? no textures? | 12:46 |
| Pforce | yes seems that its not loading the textures for that from the server | 12:46 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Pforce: this is something like second life? | 12:46 |
| Pforce | the content is all online | 12:46 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | oh | 12:46 |
| Pforce | yes, open source virtual worlds viewer | 12:46 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | very cool!!! | 12:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-04-07 01:00:13] <DocScrutinizer> let's do a math joggling: x = % of cpu clock on overall performance of a system. (wild guess: 30% - remaining 70% for mem-IO, gfx, etc pp), now if we overclock from 500MHz to a completely illusoric 1GHz, we obviously get an overall system performance gain of ~15%. Now taking into account you usually need at least a factor *1.75 to even notice any difference. | 12:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | Well - ... | 12:47 |
| SpeedEvil | That's somewhat wrong. | 12:47 |
| lcuk | Pforce, snowcrash multiverse? | 12:47 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | I've read that and I've read the response afterwards, DocScrutinizer | 12:47 |
| Pforce | this all was loaded with wifi | 12:47 |
| SpeedEvil | As some of the stuff - the | 12:47 |
| SpeedEvil | ... | 12:47 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | it can be about responsiveness | 12:47 |
| Pforce | and that other guy is me on my desktop pc | 12:47 |
| Pforce | so not a bot :) | 12:47 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | but also crude speed, like e.g. playstation games | 12:47 |
| Pforce | lcuk: ? | 12:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ptl_demands_PR12: response? | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: that for example - this isn't so much the case for scrolling | 12:48 |
| lcuk | Pforce, read snowcrash | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: As an example. | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Wander around /sys - and set the CPU to 450MHz | 12:48 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | DocScrutinizer: yeah, although nidO told responsiveness might be an issue related to swapping too. | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | (something like cpu_max_governor_frequency | 12:49 |
| Pforce | lcuk: still cant follow, you want me to google that i suppose | 12:49 |
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| lcuk | Pforce, the multiverse is a virtual world in the book :) | 12:49 |
| Pforce | right, came up on google | 12:49 |
| Pforce | heh | 12:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: there are cases where your device is just too slow, and with 1% better performance it's fast enough. Those cases are rare and for sure aren't the targeted goal of those OC idio... err ^w^w | 12:50 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Right. | 12:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: now set the device to 450. It's noticably less responsive | 12:50 |
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| flux | docscrutinizer, well, I don't think 30% raw cpu cycle rate is nothing to sneeze at (although I haven't OC'd) | 12:51 |
| flux | and at those levels it could easily go over a boundary of say updating the display every two frames to updating it every frame | 12:51 |
| noobmonk3y_ | yay qprogressdialog is almost working! | 12:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flux: for impressing the shit out of your similarly numbers-wanking friends it for sure helps a lot | 12:52 |
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| flux | docscrutinizer, well, the difference I mentioned can be very much be seen | 12:52 |
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| flux | and can give the impression of much smoother interface | 12:53 |
| flux | actually someone's been kind enough to provide a good example on that: http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html | 12:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flux: we (speedevil and me) just debated this crossing-the-border case 5 lines above. If the screen update is skipping frames due to system being 15% too slow, then it's better to lower the framerate by 15% rather than overclock the CPU by 100% | 12:54 |
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| flux | docscrutinizer, well, the way I think it likely works is that the drawing is bound to the refresh rate of the screen | 12:56 |
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| flux | docscrutinizer, so if you can't draw everything in one frame, it automatically drops to two frames (ie. 30 fps, not 60 fps) | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: actually AIUI that's NOT the way it works | 12:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm just saying it feels faster | 12:57 |
| SpeedEvil | slower | 12:57 |
| SpeedEvil | to me | 12:57 |
| Zeddy | Anyone here using Qt Mobility ? | 12:57 |
| Zeddy | if i understand correctly i have to use Qt 4.5 if i want to take advantage of the mobility Api | 12:58 |
| Zeddy | right? | 12:58 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, so currently random frames get thrown away? as I cannot see tearing when scrolling the application list. | 12:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IIRC the windowmanager rsp the rendering engine has its own framerate setting, which isn't even synced to display refresh rate. If there's no tearing then the rendering engine most probably is using double buffering | 13:01 |
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| flux | atleast hildon-manager doesn't have its own timeout set when it issues the 'poll'. on average the time between polls is 30fps, so I guess something from X is telling it to continue. | 13:03 |
| flux | agh, never mind, it does have a timeout :) | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: compare fts tests for arbitrary games or gfx rendering engines. The fps is from maybe 10fps to 200fps and still the refresh rate of your desktop PC display isn't changed | 13:03 |
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| flux | docscrutinizer, unless it does the sane thing and syncs on vblank? | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's usually no such thing like sync on vblank, except for double buffer switching | 13:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | Which is largely irrelevant. | 13:05 |
| * lcuk mutters something about pipelines and complexity | 13:05 | |
| SpeedEvil | as the update rate when scrolling does not - IMO - approach 60Hz | 13:06 |
| SpeedEvil | for essentially anything | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | but you might want to ask raster about such things, he's wizard extraordinaire for all sorts of GFX. Me just EE / hardware | 13:06 |
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| * lcuk puts fps back in liqbase | 13:06 | |
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| Scelt | pr1.2 out? | 13:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Scelt: yes, but only to cool people. | 13:07 |
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| lcuk | has ptl_demands_PR12 changed his nick yet? | 13:07 |
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| flux | glxgears atleast does this: 300 frames in 5.0 seconds | 13:07 |
| nidO | ptl isnt cool though | 13:07 |
| flux | but I guess it's not representantive of modern games | 13:07 |
| Scelt | SpeedEvil: damn | 13:07 |
| lcuk | well we know that nidO | 13:07 |
| lcuk | his nickname messes up my irc | 13:07 |
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| flux | and it properly gets events from X instead of timeouting by itself | 13:08 |
| lcuk | gears doesnt slow down for anything does it | 13:09 |
| lcuk | ive seen people quoting 1000s of fps for that on desktops | 13:09 |
| flux | perhaps in the old times | 13:09 |
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| flux | and infact it did do that for me too before saying sync-on-vblank-on-this-head | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | /kickban *p*r*1*2* | 13:09 |
| flux | (I usually run in doublehead configuration and the v-blank-sync was set to that (absent) head) | 13:09 |
| flux | before fixing that it ran at 4000+ fps | 13:10 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, your nick is similarly disruptive :p | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | too bad | 13:10 |
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| nidO | heh | 13:12 |
| nidO | 6500fps with gears | 13:12 |
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| flux | Sauerbraten is perhaps more representantive, atleast it says to have an option 'sync to vblank'. but it is difficult to say what it does.. | 13:15 |
| flux | (but atleast it definitely goes in one frame) | 13:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the whole debate is moot - see: [2010-04-07 12:05:48] <SpeedEvil> Which is largely irrelevant. as the update rate when scrolling does not - IMO - approach 60Hz. for essentially anything | 13:23 |
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| flux | but it could approach, it seems to me my cpu usage is less than 35% when scrolling the app list :) | 13:24 |
| flux | aren't there any tunables for that? | 13:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, as explained to you some lines above, the rendering engine has its own fps setting | 13:24 |
| flux | I didn't see you explaining that the fps setting is not in a configuration file or that it's nokia proprietary without source code ;) | 13:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | for E* e.g you even can set this framerate for scrolling, in the user settings | 13:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: how surprising. I didn't state that | 13:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | (framerate) and it defaults to 10fps iirc. Probably for maemo you usually have similar config options, and no, I don't think those are 60fps by default | 13:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so claiming a overall system performance increase in rendering of 15% would cause a 100% increase in framerate is mere nonsense | 13:30 |
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| jacekowski | sizeof(int) == 4 on ARMEL target? | 13:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and nota bene it's not a proven fact you could even reach a 15% boost with overclocking. It might as well be as little as 5% | 13:33 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, hasn't that been found to be true for some workloads already? | 13:33 |
| flux | surprisingly few benchmarks seem to be around | 13:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flux: some workloads == math from cache, without any mem transfers? That's for sure not the same like rendering | 13:36 |
| flux | apparently the sunspider javascript benchmark goes from 37 sec to 26 sec when clocking from 600 MHz to 900 | 13:36 |
| sejo | someone running the sdk on exherbo 86bit? | 13:36 |
| sejo | 64bit | 13:36 |
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| flux | (I doubt javascript benchmarks run from cpu cache) | 13:37 |
| corecode | what about an osx compat layer? | 13:38 |
| corecode | iphoneos | 13:38 |
| corecode | whatever | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | I feel like I know better use for my time than debating likelihood of guesses | 13:38 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, how did the initial notes about battery component come out | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: huh? | 13:39 |
| corecode | if i overclock, i'd like to have my kernel maintain the high frequency for a maxium of 10 seconds per 30 seconds or so | 13:39 |
| jacekowski | corecode: pointless | 13:39 |
| jacekowski | corecode: kernel should mantain high frequency as long as it's required | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: you want to know when it was that me stated 'we *have* a bq27200 and a bq24150' here on IRC? | 13:40 |
| noobmonk3y_ | hmmmm | 13:40 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, wasnt it you that was talking about alternative/open/other battery component | 13:40 |
| flux | jacekowski, even if it is required by a stuck hildon-desktop applet taking 100% cpus for hours worth? | 13:40 |
| noobmonk3y_ | if someone here has overclocked, would they mind doing me a favour please? | 13:40 |
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| jacekowski | flux: so why just don't clock it at lower frequency all the time | 13:41 |
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| corecode | jacekowski: and kill the cpu? | 13:41 |
| flux | jacekowski, maybe perhaps one prefers to use a user interface that responds quickly | 13:41 |
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| jacekowski | you need something to catch runaway processes | 13:42 |
| flux | jacekowski, and such workloads require cpu only for a few seconds at a time | 13:42 |
| noobmonk3y_ | lcuk, - whole new h/c in extras devel - :D :D - me thinks i'm almost happy with this one ;) | 13:42 |
| corecode | of course, high frequency is just for latency, not for number crunching | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I asked for some decent sysnodes to handle these chips in a system conformant way | 13:42 |
| jacekowski | flux: you need to remember that changing cpu frequency causes cache flush | 13:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mainly in #meego iirc | 13:42 |
| nidO | noobmonk3y_: gogo promote | 13:42 |
| corecode | oh it does? | 13:42 |
| jacekowski | yep | 13:42 |
| flux | jacekowski, even if cache is flushed every 5 seconds I doubt it affects anything | 13:42 |
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| noobmonk3y_ | nidO, - need some brains on it first ,few little niggles | 13:43 |
| noobmonk3y_ | but v almost there | 13:43 |
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| corecode | so also the switching to 250mhz? | 13:43 |
| * nidO points at his | 13:43 | |
| * noobmonk3y_ grins | 13:43 | |
| * noobmonk3y_ freaks... football in 1 hour :( | 13:44 | |
| DocScrutinizer | and I considered to start a thread on this, in maemo-devel ML. Alas I have no device ATM, so I could backup my ranting with some facts. And I don't like ranting that's not based on proper resaerch | 13:44 |
| jacekowski | corecode: that's because processor doesn't really like changing frequency just like that | 13:44 |
| noobmonk3y_ | DocScrutinizer, no device :( | 13:44 |
| noobmonk3y_ | ? | 13:44 |
| flux | jacekowski, how much does the CPU have cache anyway? I imagine it is filled in a millisecond or (much) less | 13:44 |
| corecode | jacekowski: but switches to lower frequency happen all the time | 13:44 |
| jacekowski | corecode: yes | 13:45 |
| jacekowski | corecode: and that causes cache flush | 13:45 |
| jacekowski | corecode: because it could corrupt data | 13:45 |
| corecode | every cache miss = energy spent fetching data from RAM | 13:45 |
| corecode | jacekowski: ok. | 13:45 |
| jacekowski | chances of that happening are slim | 13:45 |
| corecode | jacekowski: but that means limiting the high frequency to a fraction of total runtime shouldn't have a big impact | 13:45 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer: Out of interest, if, as you believe, overclocking was doing damage, why do you think no one on the Android side routinely overclocking their Droids (which uses the same SoC as the n900) and Nexus Ones have said anything about it? | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: anyway ShadowJK does a hell of a good job on digging into one of the both chips, the bq27200 battery gauge | 13:46 |
| corecode | what i'm say is, i wouldn't mind overclocking at all, provided that a runaway process doesn't turn my cpu into a radiator | 13:46 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, thats ok i mustv just muddled you up somehow | 13:46 |
| jacekowski | Termana: it causes damage to battery life | 13:46 |
| nidO | Termana: probably for the same reason very little will surface with people damaging their n900's | 13:46 |
| noobmonk3y_ | nidO, take a look and see what you think, if peeps are happy enough this evening i'll put it in testing :D | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: the answer is in this chan backscroll. Please refer to that | 13:47 |
| nidO | "wtf nokia my device is dead u suxorz" is generally what comes out rather than "i screwed up my phone" | 13:47 |
| corecode | does frequency scaling also cause voltage scaling? | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably yes | 13:47 |
| corecode | ok | 13:47 |
| jacekowski | corecode: i don't know how it's on nokia | 13:47 |
| jacekowski | but in normal PCs - no | 13:48 |
| Termana | Oh this is hilarious, first all the naysayers like to believe it will degrade the CPU and then they change tactic to battery degredation. This is fun. Do you guys have pull strings as well? | 13:48 |
| corecode | jacekowski: well actually no | 13:48 |
| corecode | jacekowski: usually you would also drop the voltage when deccreasing the frequency | 13:48 |
| corecode | jacekowski: or not? | 13:48 |
| jacekowski | there are limits on how low you can go | 13:48 |
| corecode | Termana: +1 | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | on OMAP it should be part of the SmartReflex magic (no - not all of SmartReflex is switched off by default) | 13:48 |
| corecode | Termana: seems to be a quite conservative crowd here | 13:49 |
| jacekowski | and when you drop voltage you risk that your cpu will reset | 13:49 |
| nidO | Termana: who'se changed "tactic"? ocing the chip will cause electromigration damage over time, thats just a fact | 13:49 |
| corecode | Termana: lots of FUD | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | lots if idiots | 13:49 |
| corecode | nidO: why? | 13:49 |
| nidO | what dyou mean "why"? | 13:49 |
| jacekowski | Termana: overclocking generates more heat for starters | 13:49 |
| nidO | physics is why. | 13:49 |
| corecode | why does a higher frequency cause electronmigration? | 13:50 |
| corecode | that is wrong | 13:50 |
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| jacekowski | corecode: it's just speeding it up | 13:50 |
| corecode | higher temperature does | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, that is right | 13:50 |
| jacekowski | drasticaly | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode: nope | 13:50 |
| corecode | have some scientific sources? | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode: you obviously have no idea whatsoever about electromigration | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: Higher speed causes higher current. | 13:51 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer: Lots of idiots? This is coming from the guy who took a part in implementing the Glamo chip, something that has been accepted as a somewhat failure? | 13:51 |
| corecode | SpeedEvil: higher voltage does | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: higher current at a higher temperature causes it more too | 13:51 |
| corecode | yes, yes | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: electromigration and voltage have little to do with each other | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: electromigration is a phenomenon in conductors. | 13:51 |
| fqhuy | hey, I need recommendation for choosing platform in maemo | 13:51 |
| corecode | why does higher frequency cause higher current? | 13:51 |
| fqhuy | shoud I choose "native" one, or QT ? | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: beware. Now you start to get not only personal, but also are using incomplete facts. this might earn you things you don't appreciate | 13:52 |
| jacekowski | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromigration | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: because it does. Each clock transistion involves charging or discharging parasitic capacitors in the circuit. | 13:52 |
| fqhuy | I have heard that in Maemo 6, the native platform will be changed to QT | 13:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | corecode: frequency is - to a first order - proportional to current. | 13:52 |
| nidO | code in qt | 13:52 |
| fqhuy | should I start with QT from now on | 13:52 |
| nidO | that's been the stance for a while | 13:52 |
| corecode | SpeedEvil: yes, but the slopes are not steeper, but just happen more often, no? | 13:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Termana: and I'm not talking about putting "termara is gay" to chantopic >:-( | 13:53 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer: Oh and i suppose calling people idiots isn't personal? | 13:53 |
| corecode | jesus | 13:53 |
| jacekowski | corecode: at that frequencies capacitaces start to matter | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: A flow with ripples at 1200MHz is essentially the same as a constant flow in practice. | 13:53 |
| corecode | break it up | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: as the ripples start to blur into one another | 13:54 |
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| corecode | fair enough | 13:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Termana: your completely flase assumption about my role in selecting glamo for sure qualifies *you* to the title 'idiot' | 13:55 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: anyway. The existing datasheet says that life is significantly affected (to 1/5th) if you use 500MHz or 600MHz | 13:55 |
| corecode | DocScrutinizer: Termana: what is up with you? | 13:55 |
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| * noobmonk3y_ is gonna go play fotty... w00p c-yall laters | 13:55 | |
| noobmonk3y_ | footy* | 13:55 |
| corecode | SpeedEvil: so what does that mean? one time 600MHz? constant operation at 600 vs 500? | 13:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | corecode: the manual states one time. | 13:56 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: this is clearly pessimistic | 13:56 |
| corecode | yea | 13:57 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: but the exact mechanism is unclear. | 13:57 |
| corecode | possibly they want to sell chips that have a higher nameplate rating | 13:57 |
| SpeedEvil | And indeed that's possible. | 13:57 |
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| nidO | im having dinner with a guy who works at arm tomorrow, i'll see if I can get any insider info on life expectancies ;) | 13:58 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer: So now your threatening me with a ban is that it? Getting a little pussy footed are we? Don't like it because you want to change your argument in the middle of a discussion. Not only that, but you state yourself, you have no proof, your only theorizing and yet you still continue to say your presenting facts. | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | It's also possible they have found that the chip is in fact unreliable at higher speeds due to some technical issue. | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | And you don't know this till your device dies. | 13:58 |
| corecode | sure | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana: fuck you sir | 13:58 |
| kirma | power-on-hours-rating of a phone I'm using rarely needs to go much over one year, or at least two years. and again, there are numerous applications where such short lifetime is completely unacceptable. | 13:58 |
| corecode | now we have evidence that similar chips are being used at higher frequencies by other platforms | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: Indeed. | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: there are a couple of speed grades. | 13:59 |
| corecode | ok | 13:59 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer, Termana: Please stop this now. | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: the one in the n900 is presumably not the higher rated one. | 13:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: ignore list did its job | 13:59 |
| kirma | I hope stable overclocking doesn't reduce it to less than an year, though. | 13:59 |
| corecode | however i don't think that electromigration would play a significant role in those differences | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: Why not? | 13:59 |
| corecode | SpeedEvil: well the fab process probably is the same | 14:00 |
| corecode | SpeedEvil: just testing puts them i different lots | 14:00 |
| corecode | like desktop cpu manufacturing | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: electromigration is proportional to current ^2. If you have a chip that can run at a lower voltage - the current at a given clock is reduced. | 14:00 |
| corecode | check for stable frequencies, increase yield | 14:00 |
| RST38h | Ah! A war! | 14:01 |
| corecode | ah i see | 14:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | corecode: And conversely - if you have a chip that requires a higher voltage to clock at - say - 720MHz - it may take it below an acceptable life threshold if actually clocked at 720. | 14:01 |
| corecode | you're saying if a chip needs a higher voltage to run at high speed X, then better classify it as low freq | 14:01 |
| corecode | yes, yes | 14:01 |
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| corecode | i was assuming that all chips run with the same voltage at the same frequency | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: actually electromigration has a threshold | 14:02 |
| kirma | if voltage (OPP) is the same, and wattage increses at square of speed ratio, it'd seem reasonable that electromigration would be fourth power of it | 14:02 |
| corecode | anyways, what i'm trying to feel out is | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Basically yes. There are process variations that legitimately affect lifetime of the CPU at a given speed. There is also marketing. Working out which is which is for end-users impossible. | 14:02 |
| lcuk | b/me thinks irc has gotten as mumbojumbo as tmo this morning :p | 14:02 |
| lcuk | -b | 14:03 |
| corecode | constant high frequency operation is clearly worse than constant low frequency operation | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: wattage is proportional to speed. (to a first order) | 14:03 |
| kirma | which would mean that clocking from 600 MHz to 950 MHz would, for instance, cut lifetime to 1/6.5536 | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: you really can't do that sort of sum unfortunately. | 14:03 |
| corecode | i'm trying to talk qualitatively | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: well - you can. | 14:03 |
| corecode | because we can't do it quantitatively | 14:04 |
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| SpeedEvil | kirma: but it requires information on the limiting rate step that only TI has | 14:04 |
| corecode | so if life(low freq) > life(high freq) | 14:04 |
| corecode | can we slip something in between | 14:04 |
| kirma | SpeedEvil: as far as I remember it's squared... I've seen the equation in many places | 14:04 |
| corecode | to get life(low freq) > life(occasional high freq) > life(high freq) | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | It may be that this is complete bullshit, and any CPU clock speed at which it works, will continue to work for the normal lifetime of the chip. It may be that this is true for some fraction of devices. It may be true for no devices. | 14:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode: as mentioned above, electromigration is not to be seen below a certain electron 'velocity' - it has a threshold. So crossing an unknown border may expose you to a jump from lifetime=infinite to lifetime<500h | 14:05 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: yeah - there is no data for that. Logically - the time at high speed must matter - I can't see a reason why 1s/day at 900MHz would be as bad as 1h/day | 14:05 |
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| hrw | morning | 14:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | corecode: But once you step out of the recommended operating region - it can be anything. | 14:06 |
| kirma | I suspect the nasty part Nokia particularly doesn't like is permanent data corruption resulting from overly eager overclocking... like root filesystem corruption and application configuration corruption | 14:06 |
| crashanddie | gents, quick question | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: possibly. | 14:06 |
| crashanddie | you know the lock code feature on the n900? | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | kirma: md5sum / | 14:06 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: 12345 | 14:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: no. | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - and 12345 - yes. | 14:07 |
| corecode | DocScrutinizer: yea, what's that function, really 'speed'? or what else | 14:07 |
| crashanddie | would it be possible to use a code from something else? Does anyone know if that part of the software is open/extensible? | 14:07 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: lock code is stored in CAL area, accessible in libcal-dev | 14:07 |
| Stskeeps | but besides that, it's not open (UI) | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode: basically EV energy of the single electron | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: you can never know unless you talk to the right guy at TI. | 14:07 |
| kirma | SpeedEvil: I actually tried to measure stability of overclocking by fetching test tar.gz over wlan, decompressing it, and calculating sha1 checksum from that repeatedly | 14:07 |
| kirma | haven't seen any problem yet | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode: it needs to kick a metal ion out of the crystal structure | 14:08 |
| kirma | no untar, just gzip -dc | openssl sha1 | 14:08 |
| corecode | DocScrutinizer: okay, so that would be voltage, i.e. proportional to used op voltage, temperature | 14:08 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode: The 'real' function might be percentage of time with line 'x' passing more than 700mA | 14:08 |
| corecode | SpeedEvil: of course | 14:08 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps: shame | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode: current | 14:08 |
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| corecode | current because of the amount of electrons? | 14:09 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer: Did you get my pm? If not I sent: "Ok, look I should probably appologize I was a bit harsh on the personal attacks. Sorry | 14:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | current = voltage * clockfreq | 14:09 |
| corecode | 13:09:15 < Termana> DocScrutinizer: Did you get my pm? If not I sent: "Ok, look I should probably appologize I was a bit harsh on the personal attacks. Sorry | 14:09 |
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| Termana | Ahh he put me on ignore did he? fair enough | 14:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode: please stop spamming me with such quotes | 14:09 |
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| corecode | but that's not the current in a conductor | 14:10 |
| corecode | at least not the instantaneous current | 14:10 |
| corecode | but the average | 14:10 |
| corecode | possibly my physical picture of transistors operating is a bit off | 14:10 |
| corecode | but in my world they charge or discharge (once) per clock cycle | 14:11 |
| corecode | and then stabilize | 14:11 |
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| corecode | more clock cycles = more charge/discharge cycles, but still no higher instantaneous current | 14:11 |
| corecode | except for higher voltage | 14:12 |
| corecode | of course | 14:12 |
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| kirma | speed of electromigration depends also on temperature, but it's much more challenging to start guessing what is the temperature of "hot spots" on silicon... ten, fifty or two hundred kelvins above ambient temperature? | 14:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode: yep, you're probably right on tha one | 14:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mostly | 14:13 |
| corecode | and if memory serves, higher temperature = higher electron availability (or how it is called) | 14:14 |
| corecode | i.e. lower resistance (if i'm not wrong) = higher current | 14:14 |
| corecode | = more electrons flowing | 14:14 |
| corecode | anyhow, what i'm trying to get at is, i guess temperature and duration of operation at high frequency probably both have a negative effect on life time | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode: but OMAP also has hardware 'SmartReflex' blocks that adjust volatges and curents of parts of the chip on a fits-for-the-operation-conditions base. So increasing clck might implicitly increase volage&|curent | 14:15 |
| corecode | yes, that's what i'd suspect | 14:16 |
| kirma | In Black's equation, it'd matter what's the ratio of absolute temperatures between scenarios, not the difference itself... so, differences have to grow pretty big in regard of kelvins to matter in that regard | 14:16 |
| corecode | so, operating only maximum 10 seconds per minute on high frequency is clearly better than operating 58 seconds in a minute | 14:16 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Yay, "apt-get install --reinstall kernel kernel-flasher" fail! | 14:16 |
| kirma | I think SmartReflex just reduces voltage and current, not increase it from default | 14:17 |
| corecode | i'd like to see a control in the kernel which lets me specify the fraction of time it may run the cpu at highest speed | 14:17 |
| corecode | that means i'd get low latency | 14:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | kirma: please read the smartreflex datasheets and whitepapers on that | 14:18 |
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| corecode | but also the benefit of not frying my cpu if there is a runaway process | 14:18 |
| corecode | now for something completely different: | 14:18 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Any overclock seems to spam dmesg with: "WARNING: at /home/builder1/maemo-fremantle-armel-extras-devel/work/kernel-maemo-2.6.28/arch/arm/mach-omap2/clock34xx.c:443 omap3_noncore_dpll_set_rate+0x28c/0x2dc()" using the testing kernel | 14:18 |
| corecode | what about an iphoneos compat layer | 14:18 |
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| kirma | DocScrutinizer: interesting if it's the other way, but yes, I can't be sure. | 14:19 |
| corecode | can't anybody publish patches to the OC kernel? i only seem to see binaries | 14:19 |
| wbs | what's the best place on maemo to look for the device model name (just to be used for generic info/stats)? in /proc/cpuinfo I find "Nokia RX-51 board", but is there any better source that would say explicitly "N900"? | 14:20 |
| flux | corecode, ask the binary publisher, they are bound by the GPL to give the source ;) | 14:20 |
| kirma | corecode: I'm pretty surprised by the binary preference too... especially when the modified code is obviously under GPL | 14:20 |
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| corecode | wouldn't an iphoneos compat layer be a nice GSoC? | 14:20 |
| kirma | RX-51 *is* N900 :) | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | kirma: huh? sure | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | ahh, missed wbs' statement | 14:21 |
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| wbs | kirma: ok, and that's the only place where I'd expect to find such info? | 14:23 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Shit, my N900 just electromigrated! | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | to another dimension? | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep - lol | 14:23 |
| Scelt | PR1.2 | 14:23 |
| Scelt | where it is? | 14:23 |
| Scelt | is it | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | was about to ask 'from USA to Canada?' | 14:24 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Scelt: stop trolling all the people with a notification up on "1.2" | 14:24 |
| kirma | electromigration officials don't approve overclocking? | 14:24 |
| Scelt | Gadgetoid_mbp: you have one? | 14:24 |
| nidO | if anyone's set a highlight for 1.2 | 14:24 |
| nidO | they deserve to be trolled mercilessly | 14:24 |
| lcuk | Gadgetoid_mbp, you have a highlight for pr1.2 ? | 14:24 |
| corecode | haha | 14:24 |
| Scelt | nidO: y should someone have higlight for pr1.2? | 14:24 |
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| Gadgetoid_mbp | I have one for 12, just in case any likely young ladies turn up... booya! | 14:25 |
| nidO | Scelt: beats me, its Gadgetoid_mbp that said it | 14:25 |
| X-Fade | Now that is just wrong :) | 14:25 |
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| lcuk | i have highlight for bacon still :) | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | nidO: I consider to set up an autoresponder for .*1.2.* | 14:25 |
| corecode | mm bacon | 14:25 |
| Scelt | nidO: ;D | 14:25 |
| Scelt | where is konttori when we need him? | 14:26 |
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| corecode | everybody seems to be ignoring my iphoneos compat layer idea | 14:26 |
| Stskeeps | corecode: i think someone was working on corefoundation | 14:26 |
| corecode | is that the graphical interface? | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | no | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | further down | 14:27 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | I'm re-flashing my phone to stock as soon as I can figure out how, bits of the silicon keep electromigrating into my cup of tea | 14:27 |
| corecode | ah, an API compat layer? | 14:28 |
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| mece | whoa. Boom! http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ef0_1270321344 | 14:29 |
| mece | :) | 14:29 |
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| MohammadAG | why is the PR1.2 thread still alive? | 14:29 |
| * MohammadAG pings mods | 14:29 | |
| Appiah | MohammadAG you want it dead? | 14:30 |
| MohammadAG | Appiah, it's fake, and users keep commenting | 14:30 |
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| Appiah | which one? | 14:30 |
| Appiah | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49390 ? | 14:31 |
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| MohammadAG | Appiah, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=598720 | 14:31 |
| * TriztN900 keeps on hoping for a pr1.2 relase, but guess he should be more realistic and wait two or more weeks | 14:32 | |
| Appiah | wow | 14:32 |
| MohammadAG | two threads? | 14:32 |
| Appiah | really amazing how people can get so excited | 14:32 |
| javispedro | wtf | 14:32 |
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| Stskeeps | lo andrewfblack | 14:32 |
| javispedro | how many posts for a "pr1.2 false alarm"? | 14:32 |
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| Appiah | two different thread numbers | 14:33 |
| javispedro | 100? | 14:33 |
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| andrewfblack | hey Stskeeps | 14:33 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I am betting on 666 | 14:33 |
| javispedro | hey, morning :) | 14:33 |
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| * MohammadAG goes back into lurking | 14:33 | |
| andrewfblack | javispedro: if we had some moderators with global powers those posts would be gone | 14:33 |
| MiXu- | tmo hasn't worked for me in a long long time :/ | 14:33 |
| javispedro | andrewfblack: I do believe in stronger moderation, but care has to be taken. | 14:34 |
| nidO | tmo does need more moderation of stupid dumb threads and posts | 14:34 |
| corecode | i have given up on tmo | 14:34 |
| * andrewfblack tries not to go into rant mode again | 14:34 | |
| * javispedro does not want andrewfblack to go into rant mode, he also thinks more mods are needed :) | 14:34 | |
| Ken-Young | Yes, tmo has become nearly ss. | 14:34 |
| Ken-Young | Yes, tmo has become nearly worthless. | 14:34 |
| andrewfblack | javispedro: not rant mode at you sorry just in general | 14:34 |
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| * RST38h believes into multitiered user privileges where newbie users have a limit of 3 comments per day and 1 new thread per week | 14:35 | |
| * mece wants OT threads away from "active topics" list. | 14:36 | |
| TriztN900 | MohammadAG: how's your MeeGo? | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: good idea | 14:36 |
| mece | and idiot threads moved to OT asap. | 14:36 |
| * RST38h also believes into corporal punishment though, so take his advice with caution | 14:36 | |
| RST38h | mece: The definition of an "idiot thread" is subjective | 14:36 |
| MohammadAG | TriztN900, uninstalled it, i'll chroot it later | 14:36 |
| andrewfblack | javispedro: if you read my latest blog post on my idea on tmo moderation you will see I were I want a organized moderation staff with regular moderators reporting to global moderators so mods have some moderation also | 14:36 |
| mece | RST38h, well idiot threads are OT threads that are not in OT | 14:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: add to that a feature to close threads on public request of a number of higher priorized users | 14:37 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Actually, the LAST thing tmo needs is more mods with god complex | 14:37 |
| javispedro | andrewfblack: yes, I did yesterdary. 20 is quite a lot | 14:37 |
| andrewfblack | mece: idiot thread should be deleted or moved to a new section just for idiot threads | 14:37 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, more mods with no complex then :p | 14:37 |
| RST38h | javispedro: the lemmings are bad enough, I have no idea what lemmings with mod privileges will do | 14:37 |
| andrewfblack | javispedro: it really is less then double of what we have now | 14:37 |
| RST38h | MohammadAG: Real difficult to find, almost impossible to achieve with large mods count | 14:37 |
| lcuk | all we need are moderation thresholds and stuff | 14:38 |
| MohammadAG | how many mods are there? | 14:38 |
| javispedro | RST38h: that's the "care has to be taken part". Also, if we select a few of the "enlightened crew" as mods, only thing will happen is more "you loozers nokia conspirators" | 14:38 |
| TriztN900 | MohammadAG: when would you expect they get so far that it has something motre than xtem? around the release of nokias tablet? | 14:38 |
| RST38h | MohammadAG: In fact, hard limit on the number of comments/threads by newbies will do a much better job than a bunch of mods | 14:38 |
| corecode | what about a mailing list instead | 14:38 |
| corecode | people are less likely to subscribe | 14:38 |
| andrewfblack | javispedro: I figured that one certain sections having 2 mods, some having 1, and some mods having multiple sections | 14:38 |
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| corecode | problem solved | 14:38 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I do not believe in enlightenment | 14:38 |
| mece | I don't mind "joke" threads as long as they are in OT. But it would be nice if OT threads were not listed in Active Topics | 14:38 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, I'm a mod on another site, and we don't seem to have problems with our mods | 14:38 |
| MiXu- | mailing lists are evil | 14:38 |
| RST38h | javispedro: But examples of people going crazy with privilege are far too many | 14:38 |
| MohammadAG | how are mods picked anyways? | 14:39 |
| nidO | RST38h: not neccesarily - it only takes one idiot new poster to post a "pr12 is hea!" thread and the ball's rolling, regardless of whether he posts any more | 14:39 |
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| MohammadAG | TriztN900, no idea, not sure if you can ask in #MeeGo | 14:39 |
| javispedro | RST38h: still, I prefer crazy privileged bastard dictators with similar views as mines instead of chaos </egotistical PoV> :) | 14:39 |
| RST38h | nid0: Actually, no | 14:39 |
| RST38h | nid0: Once lemmings waste all their comment allowances, they will think better | 14:39 |
| mece | MohammadAG, they are chosen through discussion and volonteering. | 14:40 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: life is a controlled chaos anyway | 14:40 |
| nidO | or register a new account. | 14:40 |
| MohammadAG | mece, no criteria? | 14:40 |
| javispedro | make them pay $1 to post! :) | 14:40 |
| TriztN900 | MohammadAG: think I'll wait until you say it's useble | 14:40 |
| mece | MohammadAG, not really, no. | 14:40 |
| MiXu- | RST38h: I'd rephrase: "Life is an attempt to control chaos" | 14:40 |
| RST38h | javispedro: And believe me, whoever you choose as mods, your views are likely to deviate in the next 3-6 months | 14:40 |
| mece | MohammadAG, to not be a douchebag is one I think. | 14:40 |
| javispedro | RST38h: that would be true even if I were to choose myself as a mod | 14:40 |
| MohammadAG | mece, so any user can volunteer and nothing is looked at? | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: (I do not believe in enlightenment) don't tell this to raster XP | 14:41 |
| naxu | voting system? | 14:41 |
| corecode | yea | 14:41 |
| corecode | +- | 14:41 |
| naxu | enough down votes and poster wont be able to post for some time | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | i vote for slashdot moderation | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | (0, Troll) | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:42 |
| MohammadAG | when we picked mods for the site anyone who filled the form got a thread in the mod section along with a poll | 14:42 |
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| naxu | I quess slashdot mod style works ok | 14:43 |
| andrewfblack | MohammadAG: mods are picked really by Reggie there is some disscuion but in the ends it Reggie who picks | 14:43 |
| nidO | tbh whatever process is used is fine, the forum could just use more of them actively moderating the dumb stuff, and with oversight over each other | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | MiXu-: rephrase: live *is* chaos | 14:44 |
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| MohammadAG | andrewfblack, thanks for telling me who the admin is, never seen posts by him :) | 14:45 |
| andrewfblack | MohammadAG: he is very quiet on site | 14:45 |
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| andrewfblack | MohammadAG: he really is a good guy but he Admins 5 or 6 sites and works | 14:46 |
| javispedro | yeah.. | 14:46 |
| MohammadAG | oh :( | 14:46 |
| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, well we've all seen how good slashdot is at silencing the idiots.... | 14:46 |
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| lcuk | regge closed the porn thread after 19 pages | 14:46 |
| lcuk | reggie | 14:46 |
| MohammadAG | andrewfblack, no co-amins? | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | porn thread? | 14:47 |
| MohammadAG | admins* | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | You don't want porn thread. | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | You want nice soft porn rope. | 14:47 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, "can we upload porn made using the N900 here" | 14:47 |
| MohammadAG | or something along the lines of that | 14:47 |
| E0x | hello | 14:47 |
| andrewfblack | MohammadAG: no we have 3 global modes 2 are not very into doing it and 1 has basicly given up | 14:47 |
| javispedro | so, to sum it up: better learn to share tmo with the ... uh, special people. | 14:48 |
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| E0x | i install ussd-widget from testing , and try to add it to the desktop but nothing appear in the desktop | 14:48 |
| E0x | anyidea ? | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: sometimes widgets appear under other widgets | 14:48 |
| MohammadAG | andrewfblack, 3-2-1= err 0 | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | E0x: also for some reason sometimes stuff appears on other desktops than the current | 14:48 |
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| E0x | SpeedEvil: i trough that and i look for it but nothing | 14:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | E0x: ? | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | E0x: I seem to recall something in the .desktop file had to be fixed | 14:49 |
| E0x | i mean thought* | 14:49 |
| E0x | DocScrutinizer: hmm some link ? | 14:50 |
| javispedro | ah, yet another nice, quality thrad. | 14:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | E0x: sorry, I installed and patched USSD thingie some months ago, and I can't access it right now | 14:50 |
| E0x | np | 14:51 |
| E0x | let me google it | 14:51 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Porn thread? What the hell was THAT about? | 14:52 |
| javispedro | "fixing tmo" is just a can of worms | 14:52 |
| * SpeedEvil adds curry powder to javispedros can of worms. | 14:53 | |
| DocScrutinizer | tmo is a forum, means it's broken by design | 14:53 |
| dregin | lol | 14:53 |
| lcuk | RST38h, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48336 *facepalm* was amusing actually | 14:53 |
| javispedro | My personal theory is that you when administrating a board, you can choose between it being "nice, lovable, enjoyable" or "useful", but never both. | 14:54 |
| RST38h | Heh, Texrat went bonkers at the US bloggers | 14:54 |
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| javispedro | in fact there can be a certain balance between both extremes | 14:54 |
| RST38h | javispedro: There is also "detached" and I suspect it is the only right thing | 14:54 |
| Appiah | oh lord... | 14:54 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Oh | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: you have no choice though it will drive you insane on moderating it, unless you ignore it | 14:55 |
| pupnik | javispedro: there is no fair way to exclude people from contributing stupid posts. the forum is the product of its inputs | 14:55 |
| RST38h | javispedro: But yes, after seeing that porn thread helpfully quoted by lcuk, I believe we have to set limits on the amount of shit new users can post | 14:55 |
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| Appiah | offensive thread :D | 14:56 |
| RST38h | javispedro: like level 1: 3 comments per day, no new threads | 14:56 |
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| javispedro | "detached" usually means that the board has a natural tendency to the "lovable" but not useful side | 14:56 |
| RST38h | javispedro: level 2: 5 comments a day, 1 new thread a week | 14:56 |
| pupnik | it is quite typical of coders in irc to react to this in technocratic / tyrannical fashion, btw ;) | 14:56 |
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| _llll_ | i think the best way, on irc and elsewhere is to enforce on-topicness but have a spearate place where people can take other conversations | 14:57 |
| mece | That's what I've been saying. | 14:58 |
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| mece | be quick to move threads to off topic area. | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem isn't the amount of crap in tmo - the problem starts when you think there's something that's not crap | 14:58 |
| _llll_ | cause, the downside is it requires active moderaters | 14:58 |
| pupnik | my social engineering suggesxtion would be to place threads on frontpage based on number or ratio of recent posts, weighted by number of "thanks" | 14:58 |
| javispedro | the problem is that _we_ (as in, the technocratic coders in irc) want to put something that we think is not crap in tmo | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | _llll_: not really. | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | _llll_: it requires posters with a clue to outweigh the content-free-brigade | 14:59 |
| _llll_ | hehe, fair enugh. i dont think you;ll ever get that on the internet | 14:59 |
| pupnik | how about a "content" tag | 14:59 |
| pupnik | or a filter by number of thanks would do me fine for quick scanning a thread i guess | 15:00 |
| andrewfblack | well I've had alot people say I shouldn't just be giving up and I shouldn't leave so here is my attempt to start something to change the way tmo works. http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/setup_new_talk_moderator_structure/ | 15:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | how about starting *all* threads in OT area, and they may move to a meaningful topic area by vote of experienced users only | 15:00 |
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| lcuk | how about just ignoring threads you arent interested in | 15:01 |
| E0x | DocScrutinizer: i think i find the problem , i need install python | 15:01 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, nearly all the big names in maemo.org started on itT | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | E0x: yep, of course :-D | 15:01 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, and it was a much more productive place before the N900 launch. | 15:01 |
| E0x | but here at work everything is block | 15:01 |
| E0x | DocScrutinizer: is wired , not app-manager resolve the dependecies ? | 15:01 |
| javispedro | since it seems we're brainstorming, I'd like to evolve _llll_'s idea: enforce stricter moderation in development (whatever code or art) subforums, keep the "light" moderation in general/device/offtopic forums which seem like a magnet for new users | 15:01 |
| E0x | like apt-get do ? | 15:01 |
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| E0x | is wierd* | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | E0x: dunno, should | 15:02 |
| GAN900 | Unfortunately the masses of users that brought in generally aren't interested in being productive. | 15:02 |
| MiXu- | javispedro: Sounds smart to me | 15:02 |
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| _llll_ | andrewfblack: leaving is quite extreme, but taking a steop back is good when the stress is getting bad - it's just software at the end of the day | 15:03 |
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| javispedro | andrewfblack: remember to create the brainstorm discussion page.. in tmo ;) | 15:04 |
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| mece | It's not just you! http://talk.maemo.org looks down from here. | 15:07 |
| Stskeeps | andrewfblack++ | 15:08 |
| Termana | Apparently t.m.o has left andrewfblack before andrewfblack could leave t.m.o | 15:09 |
| javispedro | :) | 15:09 |
| X-Fade | Does anyone know if the Debian Policy specifies 80 char line lengths for control files etc? | 15:09 |
| _llll_ | haha | 15:10 |
| _llll_ | X-Fade: pretty sure there's a limit, no idea if it's 80 or 67 or what | 15:10 |
| andrewfblack | javispedro: I did thanks | 15:10 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: actually no, since Homepage: or our own Bugtracker: can be larger than that | 15:10 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: And things like desciption or icon? | 15:10 |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: "Suggested" | 15:11 |
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| _llll_ | you can use \ to break the line, i would think | 15:11 |
| X-Fade | _llll_: no, just break the line and continue on the next one with a space in front. | 15:11 |
| javispedro | yes for description, no for bugtracker :) | 15:11 |
| Raafat | Hi, all. I have just submitted my proposal in GSOC for the Pocket Jeeves project, it is a big project so I suggested in the proposal that it is divided in two parts; one for the speech recognition part only building the framework/APIs needed, and the other part is for adding functionalities and UI for the project, is this an acceptable idea ? | 15:12 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Hehe no not there ;) | 15:12 |
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| _llll_ | http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html i guess there's no limit | 15:13 |
| javispedro | incredibly enough, the spanish translation does say 80 column recomended, but the english one doesn't | 15:14 |
| javispedro | ah no, I'm reading the maint-guide | 15:14 |
| _llll_ | i guess with long lines eg description will look bad in lists | 15:14 |
| X-Fade | Most apps do adhere to it it seems, but for instance fmradio-player in diablo doesn't. | 15:14 |
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| _llll_ | hence the break+space thing i guess | 15:15 |
| javispedro | X-Fade: if dpkg tools parse it, I'd apply the "be flexible in what you accept..." rule | 15:15 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Yeah, just need to set my limits higher it seems ;) | 15:16 |
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| javispedro | ah, those pesky languages with dynamically allocated arrays :P | 15:16 |
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| javispedro | aha, tmo is back | 15:19 |
| X-Fade | lunch break ;) | 15:19 |
| * javispedro goes open another pr1.2 thread under his evil pseudonym | 15:19 | |
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| andrewfblack | javispedro: nope still the new tmo not the old :) | 15:23 |
| MohammadAG | hahaha | 15:23 |
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| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG, woooop! new hc in devel for ya :) | 15:24 |
| andrewfblack | well I got a meeting, I guess now I'm going to have to start working at work since i don't read tmo all day lol | 15:24 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, type /ms read last | 15:24 |
| Noobmonk3y | invalid message index, on the n900 if that makes a dif? | 15:25 |
| MohammadAG | xchat? | 15:25 |
| Noobmonk3y | yeah | 15:25 |
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| MohammadAG | /ms list then | 15:25 |
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| Noobmonk3y | oooo how do i read it! | 15:25 |
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| Noobmonk3y | got it | 15:26 |
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| MohammadAG | -MemoServ- noobmonk3y has read your memo, which was sent at Apr 07 11:11:29 2010 | 15:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol! | 15:26 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG, i used scaling! | 15:26 |
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| Noobmonk3y | just scaling max, not avail yet | 15:26 |
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| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, it says 600MHz | 15:27 |
| * javispedro renames Maemo 5 downloads page to "Peter's Operating System 5.0" | 15:27 | |
| Noobmonk3y | startup screen work ok apart front the random font colours? | 15:27 |
| MohammadAG | on my 825MHz device | 15:27 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, i like it | 15:27 |
| MohammadAG | even with the broken font | 15:27 |
| Noobmonk3y | yay! tis almost rdy for testing | 15:27 |
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| Noobmonk3y | should be able to grep the scaling freq's and list em :) | 15:29 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, which file are you cat'ing? | 15:30 |
| pupnik | if the successor has better screen/battery life i am so buying | 15:30 |
| Noobmonk3y | scaling_max_freq at the mo | 15:30 |
| mece | MohammadAG, have you jumped on the overclocking bandwagon? | 15:30 |
| Noobmonk3y | but can read the other one instead | 15:30 |
| javispedro | pupnik: and if it has capacitive screen with no stylus, or no hw keyboard? | 15:30 |
| MohammadAG | mece, yep | 15:30 |
| MohammadAG | i know the risks :) | 15:31 |
| mece | MohammadAG, well, how is it? | 15:31 |
| MohammadAG | mece, much much snappier | 15:31 |
| MohammadAG | haven't oc'd the dsp though | 15:31 |
| lcuk | and warranty breakier | 15:31 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG, 's n900 now moos's on load :) | 15:31 |
| mece | MohammadAG, they say it doesn't do much. | 15:32 |
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| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, lol | 15:33 |
| MohammadAG | mece, actually it does | 15:33 |
| Noobmonk3y | lcuk, i'd assume people who do it, a) shold know how to turn it back= and b) probably dont care? | 15:33 |
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| Nitial | haven't overclocked, but the underclocked 125 MHz step seems to be helping with battery life :) | 15:33 |
| MohammadAG | especially with microB (rendering) | 15:33 |
| Noobmonk3y | Nitial, good idea | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Noobmonk3y: there's no way to 'turn back' any damage done | 15:33 |
| Nitial | any ideas if that 125 could got to the official kernel/release? | 15:33 |
| Noobmonk3y | DocScrutinizer, hence b) | 15:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Nitial: it's unstable | 15:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | Nitial: for some devices | 15:34 |
| MohammadAG | battery.reporting.current = 816 (0x330) (int) | 15:34 |
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| Nitial | okay | 15:34 |
| Noobmonk3y | ? | 15:34 |
| Nitial | haven't noticed myself, so I guess I'm lucky | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: OK to point people at your script? | 15:35 |
| MohammadAG | taken off the charger since 12:40 AM | 15:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | cool | 15:35 |
| Noobmonk3y | now run joikuspot and watch you device burn!! | 15:35 |
| mece | MohammadAG, what time is it now? | 15:35 |
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| MohammadAG | 3:35 | 15:35 |
| MohammadAG | PM | 15:36 |
| Noobmonk3y | ohhhhhhhh my god! | 15:36 |
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| mece | what have you been doing with your device then? | 15:36 |
| Noobmonk3y | i have just spotted and n900 in the wild!! | 15:36 |
| mece | woow! | 15:36 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, true, damage done can't be reversed, but it can be stopped from going further | 15:36 |
| mece | did you flash yours? | 15:36 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: and? | 15:36 |
| Noobmonk3y | and i'm going over to say hello! | 15:37 |
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| Noobmonk3y | brb | 15:37 |
| nidO | Noobmonk3y: is it your own? | 15:37 |
| mece | flash as in show, not reinstall | 15:37 |
| MohammadAG | mece, mine? yeah, with the custom kernel | 15:37 |
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| mece | sorry | 15:37 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 15:37 |
| mece | meant noobmonk3y :) | 15:37 |
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| MohammadAG | np | 15:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | nidO, and mid twenties cute woman :) may b a while, brbr | 15:37 |
| nidO | photo plx | 15:37 |
| * DocScrutinizer really wonders why all those people bought a N900 if they know for sure Nokia are all just morons nor knowing their job and not caring about delivering the best tradeoff between durability, standby time, and user experience to their customers. Hell if all those people are that much better on it than all the Nokia engineering staff, why did they bother to buy a Nokia hw then, rather than builkding their own? | 15:37 | |
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| nidO | for proof of the device, obviously. | 15:37 |
| Noobmonk3y | lmfao! shes gone :( | 15:38 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: stop lying | 15:38 |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, which people? | 15:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | will hunt her down later | 15:38 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: that is also my opinion. note that I also think that they can sometimes fsck off stuff (usb host comes to mind) | 15:38 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, hunt her down NOW | 15:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie, :( | 15:38 |
| nidO | howd you spot an n900 from far enough away to not just say hi straight off? | 15:38 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: but to be fair to them that is probably more a political thing that engineering | 15:38 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: first of all, no girl has an n900, secondly, you're in #maemo, there's no way you'd go talk to a chick | 15:38 |
| Noobmonk3y | i'm eating lunch, not gonna run round butlins after her! | 15:39 |
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| Noobmonk3y | looooooool! | 15:39 |
| kirma | overclocking N900 is something Nokia shouldn't encourage plainly because that would push the components beyond their manufacturer approved operating conditions... | 15:39 |
| Noobmonk3y | crashanddie, did you see the vids from yesterdays meet? | 15:39 |
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| MohammadAG | overclocking the N900 isn't done to show that nokia engineers aren't good | 15:39 |
| crashanddie | Noobmonk3y: i did not | 15:39 |
| mece | kirma, and they don't encourage it.. | 15:39 |
| MohammadAG | well at least from my pov | 15:39 |
| kirma | may be dangerous or not, but I'd be really surprised if Nokia would sell devices overclocked, or even support the idea | 15:39 |
| Noobmonk3y | can someone link the thread in here please? tis on tmo. crashanddie 2 woomen and 2 men. | 15:40 |
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| crashanddie | woomen? | 15:40 |
| MohammadAG | kirma, half the life, half the price :p | 15:40 |
| javispedro | kirma: omap2420 was 330Mhz, but sold as 400Mhz | 15:40 |
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| Noobmonk3y | :) | 15:40 |
| nidO | plenty of manus sell overclocked devices of various kinds when theyre known to be stable and reliable at said overclock | 15:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | s/woomen/women | 15:40 |
| MohammadAG | / | 15:40 |
| crashanddie | nidO: then they're not OVERclocked, are they? | 15:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | meh | 15:40 |
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| nidO | crashanddie, what else do you call something that's been overclocked if it's not overclocked? | 15:41 |
| mece | N00bmonk3y, I've seen one N900 in the real wild. Many at the university where I work. | 15:41 |
| naxu | yeah surely chip is overclocked if it is run faster than marketing material said.. | 15:41 |
| Noobmonk3y | cool!!! | 15:41 |
| crashanddie | nidO: clocked? | 15:41 |
| kirma | how the university isn't "real wild" | 15:41 |
| Noobmonk3y | that was my first seen in the wild | 15:41 |
| nidO | nvidia rates a gpu to x, graphics card manufacture sells the chip clocked to y, where y > x | 15:41 |
| nidO | what would you call it if that's not overclocked? | 15:41 |
| crashanddie | erhm | 15:42 |
| mece | noobmonk3y, the real wild was the guy behind the bar at a black metal concert :D | 15:42 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol!!!! | 15:42 |
| Noobmonk3y | right football time, back when i'm knackered | 15:42 |
| mece | toodles | 15:43 |
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| mece | 729 packages upgraded, 251 newly installed, 99 to remove and 0 not upgraded. | 15:45 |
| mece | Need to get 835MB of archives. After unpacking 524MB will be used. | 15:45 |
| mece | heh | 15:45 |
| * javispedro ponders maemo.org free non-free definitions | 15:45 | |
| javispedro | yet another can of worms | 15:45 |
| mece | indeed | 15:45 |
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| * DocScrutinizer suggests to all OC-fanbois to open an improvement-ticket with a request to implement a mode switch to device settings, so user can set device to a 'do turbo, expect device breakage any time' mode. Then leave the datasheet reading heavy lifting to those who actually *have* all the datasheets, and should know about the special idiosyncrasies of their own hw design. Rather than experimenting without any clear idea about the implications | 15:53 | |
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| RST38h | DocScrutinizer: ...and change all background colors to bloody RED!!! | 15:58 |
| pupnik | and use blinking text :P | 15:59 |
| andre__ | I remember my Linux distro version a few years ago where the root account by default had a red wallpaper image with bombs | 15:59 |
| inz | And put an "under construction" -animation | 16:00 |
| javispedro | also make it vibrate every few seconds | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | andre__: it still has afaik ;-D | 16:00 |
| javispedro | for enhanced realism | 16:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I think it's a valid request when user wants a maximum speed device and agrees on not caring about device stability and durability. But very sure it's Nokia who'd be the most knowledgable people to implement such a mode in a proper most effective way | 16:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fiddling with cpu max clock in a random maner for sure isn't the way to do this | 16:04 |
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| javispedro | supersonic phone! | 16:05 |
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| pupnik | dont forget the recommendation from summit | 16:10 |
| pupnik | or the verbot | 16:10 |
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| * cehteh rather wonders if it would make sense to have a 125mhz kernel, race to idle aside, when i play netradio i have about 40% cpu at 250Mhz and it stays active no deeper sleep state | 16:13 | |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | race to idle only makes sense if you can actually hit idle ever | 16:14 |
| SpeedEvil | If you're never in idle, then you want to be at the lowest frequency you can | 16:14 |
| X-Fade | Problem is that you can hear frequency switches when listening to audio. | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia could ship an 'app' in extras-devel, to crank up all the right dials in a consistent manner, to set device to a turbo mode, and they can get a 'EULA' you need to read on activating that mode, where it's clearly stated what - from an EE point of view - Nokia expects you're doing to your device and you agree to take full responsibility on any consecutive damage | 16:14 |
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| cehteh | well dual core mobile cpus are on the horizon too :) | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: ouch, that hurts | 16:15 |
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| cehteh | imo thats the way to go especially when they can be independently sleep (and maybe clocked) | 16:16 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: ;) | 16:16 |
| Treibholz | you even hear multitasking, when listening to music... | 16:16 |
| Treibholz | with a standard-kernel | 16:16 |
| cehteh | at least multicore is way better for low latency than any increase in cpu speed will give you | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | (nokia turbo app) this could take a lot of momentum out of that OC madness | 16:17 |
| nidO | or put a lot more into it | 16:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for sure not | 16:18 |
| nidO | "well if nokia release an app for that, even with a warning, it must be pretty safe, so lets go for it!" | 16:18 |
| nidO | etc. | 16:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, that doesn't bother naybody then | 16:18 |
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| nidO | until the forum ends up filled with "nokia software bricked my phone!oneone" | 16:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | answer: heh great. So it did exactly what it stated it will do XP | 16:19 |
| cehteh | cant be worse than now .. rootfs full :P | 16:19 |
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| cehteh | i bet you can throw a overclocked n900 higher when playing n900fly :o) | 16:20 |
| cehteh | come one.. try it | 16:20 |
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| mece | wow, titan is really making overclocking the lazy man's hobby :D | 16:25 |
| mece | Can't wait to see reports of some fried N900's. Also makes me want to try it out.. :) | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | "this is Nokia turbo app // YOU ARE ABOUT TO DAMAGE YOUR PHONE!! READ THIS WHOLE INFO! // you can a) abort and avoid losing your waranty, or select b) turbo mode: 15% boost in bogomips, 50% devices died after 300h operation in this mode, or c) super turbo: 25% boost, 50% lethal after 80h" | 16:26 |
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| toggles_w | DocScrutinizer: link to .deb? | 16:29 |
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| * toggles_w ducks ;-) | 16:29 | |
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| zeq | Surely the primary reason for the stock frequency is to keep costs reasonable. Procuring OMAP3's validated at higher clock speeds would be *much* more expensive. I would imagine devices out there have very varied upper limits within the range expected of the fabrication process, some will rapidly fail at higher frequencies, others won't have their life-span noticeably affected. | 16:46 |
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| cehteh | .. and the only way to find that out for a customer is to try it until it dies :) | 16:49 |
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| cehteh | well stability issues and excessive heat may give a hint before it dies | 16:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: what's " CAL area"? | 16:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | zeq: ack | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: not really | 16:57 |
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| mgedmin | DocScrutinizer, one of the builtin flash memory partitions containing system information, afaiu | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: stability is one issue, wear/silicon deterioration is a separate one | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: thanks. | 16:58 |
| mgedmin | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=20465 | 16:58 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: well they are somewhat (but not exactly) related, local hotspots on the silicon change resistance, make transistors act slower, but its also the heat which detoriates the chip over time | 17:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | Heat is one degrador. | 17:00 |
| SpeedEvil | It is no thte only one | 17:00 |
| cehteh | yes .. i saied not exactly | 17:00 |
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| cehteh | charge buildup and so on | 17:01 |
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| hrw | andrewfblack: good mail on devel ml | 17:01 |
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| *** root is now known as Guest71415 | 17:08 | |
| Guest71415 | cool :D ssh to phone irssi from phone | 17:08 |
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| jacekowski | chrome is just finishing to build | 17:09 |
| jacekowski | LINK(target) out/Debug/chrome | 17:09 |
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| crashanddie | you must be new here | 17:09 |
| FireStorm | ? | 17:09 |
| jacekowski | it's just matter of linker finishing it's job | 17:09 |
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| jacekowski | and i have native maemo build | 17:09 |
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| pupnik | i wish irc had a mobile/bad reception mode with quick reassociation or whatever | 17:10 |
| crashanddie | its job | 17:10 |
| Jaffa | hrw: Did you mean s/andrewfblack/Jaffa/? :-) | 17:10 |
| crashanddie | pupnik: it's called a bnc | 17:11 |
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| FireStorm | hmm, rmms any one used it before? | 17:11 |
| pupnik | yea just to eliminate my work | 17:11 |
| RST38h | Ah, sweet, Sony just nuked PS3s with a "helpful" firmware update | 17:12 |
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| hrw | Jaffa: argh... I too often do that | 17:13 |
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| pupnik | the linux support? | 17:13 |
| crashanddie | pupnik: telnet sdf.org | 17:14 |
| FireStorm | hmm | 17:15 |
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| RST38h | pupnik: Was supposed to be the linux support, but accidentally nuked everything | 17:15 |
| hrw | ~curse people which keyboards lack del key | 17:15 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, people which keyboards lack del key ! | 17:15 |
| FireStorm | confused.com | 17:16 |
| crashanddie | FireStorm: please don't spam | 17:17 |
| * pupnik goes for phood | 17:17 | |
| FireStorm | i didn't mean to :p put it in wrong channel!!!! | 17:17 |
| FireStorm | irssi confuses me it has been a while | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: xchat ping_timeout=90 | 17:18 |
| RST38h | Good | 17:18 |
| RST38h | Now go to the right channel. | 17:18 |
| FireStorm | RST38h: whats ps3 done then kill all ps3's using new update? | 17:18 |
| RST38h | FireStorm: talking gibberish at me is not recommended either. | 17:19 |
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| cehteh | http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/04/07/022250/Largest-Sodium-Sulfur-Battery-Powers-a-Texas-Town n900 battery problem solved :) | 17:19 |
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| toggles_w | cehteh: i'd like to see you put that in your pocket | 17:20 |
| lcuk | cehteh, but thats a 350degree egg smelling molten core and can only give 8hrs | 17:20 |
| crashanddie | FireStorm: seriously, get a grip please | 17:20 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: I guess some people in here wouldn't notice the smell then | 17:21 |
| crashanddie | depends how often mum cleans the room though | 17:21 |
| pupnik | anybody good with tech patents? :/ | 17:21 |
| crashanddie | pupnik: quite | 17:22 |
| lcuk | RST38h, what DID happen with the ps3 upgrade | 17:22 |
| crashanddie | lcuk: they removed the linux feature from all ps3's | 17:22 |
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| crashanddie | lcuk: so there's 6 unhappy people | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | that many? | 17:23 |
| crashanddie | well, some may have died since the last census | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 17:23 |
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| * DocScrutinizer cackles | 17:23 | |
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| jacekowski | cehteh: it's not the battery | 17:24 |
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| jacekowski | cehteh: it's software | 17:24 |
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| jacekowski | cehteh: if you leave it idling it can last for 4-5 days | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: the sw is stinking like foul egg? XP | 17:25 |
| cehteh | jacekowski: but with that battery you can run it at full speed for a lifetime ... prolly all n900's ever produced :) | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah assuming the lifetime is reduced to some 24h by massive overclocking, as then the molten sulfur of the battery has chilled down too much | 17:26 |
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| jacekowski | cehteh: it's only 4MW | 17:27 |
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| jacekowski | cehteh: for 8h | 17:27 |
| jacekowski | which is 32MWh | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | not bad ;-P | 17:28 |
| cehteh | still quite impressive | 17:28 |
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| cehteh | maybe only suffice to power the LHC for a few minutes, but thats another thing | 17:28 |
| jacekowski | n900 battery is 4.9Wh | 17:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, am I doing math right? A N900 may eat some tens to hundereds of KWh in its lifetime? | 17:29 |
| jacekowski | so that battery could power 6,5 million | 17:29 |
| jacekowski | n900's | 17:29 |
| cehteh | see .. my guess wasnt wrong :) | 17:30 |
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| jacekowski | assuming that in worst case scenario you would charge it once a day | 17:30 |
| jacekowski | for 2 years | 17:30 |
| jacekowski | that would be 2*365*5 | 17:30 |
| cehteh | well there are less than 6.5mio n900 around | 17:30 |
| cehteh | dunno the sales figure but i bet less than 1mio | 17:31 |
| jacekowski | so it would be 3.6kWh | 17:31 |
| lcuk | having a battery the size of a house isn't much of a problem until you need to lick the terminal to see if its flat | 17:31 |
| jacekowski | over 2 years | 17:31 |
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| cehteh | lcuk: and if its not flat you have a problem with a vaporized tounge | 17:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: thanks, so my 'math' was off by one magnitude at least | 17:32 |
| FireStorm | hehe lcuk imagine shorting the battery out to see if it's got any life left in it!!!!! | 17:32 |
| jacekowski | cehteh: nokia sells over 100 million phones per year | 17:33 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: yeah | 17:33 |
| cehteh | yes, but n900 is certainly less than 1% of them | 17:33 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: your kung fu isn't good enough | 17:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | Flat out, the n900 uses about 3W | 17:34 |
| SpeedEvil | so, that's a pretty hard maximum | 17:35 |
| SpeedEvil | 30Kwh/year, or 300Kwh in 10 years | 17:35 |
| Scelt | konttori: where's the pr1.2? | 17:35 |
| hrw | Scelt: no rush, release in november | 17:35 |
| Scelt | what year? | 17:36 |
| javispedro | 2012 | 17:36 |
| kirma | I think nokia sells about 100 million phones per quarter, not year | 17:36 |
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| andrewfblack | hrw: I can't access ml from work what did it say? | 17:36 |
| hrw | andrewfblack: I (again) messed names | 17:37 |
| andrewfblack | hrw: k | 17:37 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PR1.2_autobuilder I don't know if I can abuse the task namespace like this, so feel free to move... :P | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~3 * 24 * 365 | 17:37 |
| infobot | 26280 | 17:37 |
| FIQ | i have no plans on overclocking my device, but wouldn't 125-600MHz clock variety make the battery actually lasting longer? | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: so my kung fu wasn't such bad | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | FIQ: probably, yes. | 17:38 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Cool, want to post that on the ML thread? I think it's going to be a task for X-Fade in this timebox^Wsprint | 17:38 |
| hrw | javispedro: I would vote for reverting to safe SDK for extras | 17:38 |
| FIQ | instead of 250-600 as in the default | 17:38 |
| fabinader | Hi, I'm changing N900 kernel and I was willing to update the eMMC root image to include my new zImage and the kernel modules, using instructions from http://wiki.maemo.org/Modifying_the_root_image and http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=403015 , do I need specific instructions other than just replacing zImage and the kernel modules? | 17:38 |
| javispedro | Jaffa: yep | 17:38 |
| SpeedEvil | FIQ: some devices are not stable at 125 though | 17:38 |
| FIQ | ah | 17:38 |
| Jaffa | javispedro: Ta | 17:38 |
| hrw | Jaffa, javispedro: with unknown release date of pr1.2 there is no sense in having extras-devel/testing broken | 17:39 |
| javispedro | you did the initial "condensantion" of options and pros/cons :) | 17:39 |
| hrw | who knows will pr1.2 get released at all | 17:39 |
| javispedro | will be the same when pr1.2+1 comes, etc. | 17:40 |
| hrw | who knows? maybe they will bump soname of libs this time? | 17:40 |
| javispedro | that wouldn't help | 17:40 |
| hrw | so libhildon1 in 1.2, libhildon2 in 1.3 etc | 17:40 |
| hrw | anyway it just shows how nokia care about devs | 17:41 |
| javispedro | the issue here is that if we built packages in the pr1.2 sdk they have a libhildon2 dep, if we build packages in the 1.0 sdk they have a libhildon1 dep | 17:41 |
| javispedro | whatever they use pr1.2 or pr1.0 features | 17:41 |
| hrw | implement shlibssymbols | 17:41 |
| javispedro | s/wherever | 17:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hrw: (sonames) let's pray | 17:41 |
| Jaffa | hrw: Agreed | 17:41 |
| javispedro | hrw: requires newer debhelper :( | 17:42 |
| hrw | javispedro: dh7 is in repos | 17:42 |
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| hrw | and yes, I know that shitbox can override some parts but that can be workarounded with magic shitbox env vars | 17:43 |
| * javispedro thinks about upgrading the debian toolchain in a pr and shudders | 17:43 | |
| javispedro | btw (ot) does rpm implement something akin to dpkg's .symbol files? | 17:44 |
| hrw | no idea | 17:44 |
| hrw | I know one thing - I need to collect all my sd/microsd/etc cards cause I lost track | 17:45 |
| godrik | Hi guys, I got a question about MeamoMapper and GPS on the N810. I can not get a fix at all unless I start Nokia's Map application which get a fix immediately. Is there a way to "fix" MaemoMapper ? Or an easier way of getting a fix than using Nokia's Map ? | 17:45 |
| _berto_ | <hrw> implement shlibssymbols | 17:46 |
| _berto_ | that would be the solution | 17:46 |
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| hrw | _berto_: question is: is it worth time? | 17:46 |
| _berto_ | http://wiki.debian.org/Projects/ImprovedDpkgShlibdeps | 17:47 |
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| _berto_ | I think it is, there are lots of compatibility problems in debian because of that | 17:47 |
| _berto_ | you cannot install a package from a more recent distribution in cases where you should be able | 17:47 |
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| javispedro | note that I tried to create a package with .symbols files using the base maemo toolchain, and you can. | 17:49 |
| * noobmonk3y lost in the semi's :( | 17:49 | |
| javispedro | the issue is that the amount of verbosity with the current outdated debhelpers is huge | 17:49 |
| _berto_ | but does it work? | 17:49 |
| X-Fade | We could do tests with: http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/stable/main/binary-i386/scratchbox-devkit-debian-squeeze_1.0.3_i386.deb | 17:50 |
| javispedro | you can't use dh_shlibdeps and have to bring your own. | 17:50 |
| javispedro | if you call that working ... :D | 17:50 |
| X-Fade | This is a newer devkit, but we need to make sure that is not breaking more things than it fixes. | 17:50 |
| _berto_ | what do you mean by 'bring your own' ? | 17:50 |
| javispedro | reimplement it or grab the newer debian's version and put it in the packaging | 17:51 |
| _berto_ | I can prepare a list of the symbols introduced in each libhildon release, if that helps | 17:51 |
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| javispedro | _berto_: even if they're not used, we could start doing that NOW. | 17:51 |
| noobmonk3y | MohammadAG, /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/Scaling_available_frequencies - is that the one to list from? | 17:51 |
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| * andrewfblack is running Open Office, and Inkscape on his N900....Well ok I'm running it on my work PC but the files are stored on the N900 lol | 17:54 | |
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| javispedro | X-Fade: interesting. seems to ship updated dh_shlibdeps (unlike the lenny devkit :P ) | 17:56 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Yes it does. | 17:57 |
| * javispedro wonders if that will be the default for harmattan | 17:58 | |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Quite possible. The tools will be updated to more recent versions at least. | 17:58 |
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| MohammadAG | noobmonk3y, cat it, does it give you four/five values? | 17:58 |
| noobmonk3y | yeah | 17:59 |
| MohammadAG | if yes, highest (first) is max, lowest (last) is min | 17:59 |
| noobmonk3y | just splitting them down now and will add them | 17:59 |
| noobmonk3y | yup | 17:59 |
| MohammadAG | of course divide by 1000 to make it MHz instead of Hz | 17:59 |
| javispedro | anyway, does anyone consider getting hildon .debs rebuilt with appropriate symbol times BEFORE pr1.2 (and at least before pr1.3) possible? I have my own doubts :P | 18:00 |
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| javispedro | s/times/files | 18:01 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: On the builder we can install an additional package for instance. | 18:01 |
| X-Fade | javispedro: Containing symbols. | 18:01 |
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| javispedro | heh, ugly but would work :P | 18:01 |
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| X-Fade | Or change the sdk locally. | 18:02 |
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| javispedro | symbol files go iirc to /var/lib/dpkg/info/libfoo-dev.symbols (reason I think an external "libfoo-dev-symbols" package would be ugly) | 18:03 |
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| javispedro | see your local debian install for samples | 18:03 |
| X-Fade | But would keep the original sdk in place. | 18:03 |
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| X-Fade | Not really feeling a lot for maintaining an sdk :) | 18:04 |
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| godrik | Hi guys, I got a question about MeamoMapper and GPS on the N810. I can not get a fix at all unless I start Nokia's Map application which get a fix immediately. Is there a way to "fix" MaemoMapper ? Or an easier way of getting a fix than using Nokia's Map ? | 18:04 |
| javispedro | the symbol files also need maintaining... :P hopefully, less. | 18:04 |
| lcuk | i want to know how you have gps on n810 that gets a fix immediately | 18:05 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, would any sdk modifications be forward thinking | 18:05 |
| godrik | lcuk: if I start Nokia's Map while outside, I got a fix under a minute | 18:05 |
| godrik | reproducibility: 100% | 18:06 |
| lcuk | so that when we come round to 1.3 for instance we could use same principle | 18:06 |
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| javispedro | or harmattan, with the community maintained hildon | 18:06 |
| lcuk | or is this a sticking plaster specifically for 1.2 | 18:06 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Ideally the sdk people would fix it ;) | 18:06 |
| lcuk | yes | 18:06 |
| * lcuk nods sagely | 18:06 | |
| X-Fade | But with that symbol package we could do it ourselves. | 18:06 |
| javispedro | yeah. | 18:06 |
| andrewfblack | http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/setup_new_talk_moderator_structure/ made it to under vote in less then 2 hours | 18:06 |
| javispedro | liking it so far. | 18:07 |
| X-Fade | We now install the optify package after rootstrap extraction too. | 18:07 |
| lcuk | andrewfblack, your blog post fails when i click from planet | 18:07 |
| X-Fade | So in that step we can add the symbols. | 18:07 |
| javispedro | of course the fact that we align more with debian again is a nice plus :) | 18:07 |
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| andrewfblack | refresh screen should work then | 18:07 |
| X-Fade | The only tricky part is the devkit. | 18:07 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, optify should theoretically be a noop on scratchbox | 18:07 |
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| X-Fade | lcuk: No, package optify thingie. | 18:08 |
| lcuk | maemo-optify-runonce | 18:08 |
| lcuk | i know | 18:08 |
| X-Fade | no | 18:08 |
| lcuk | ahh different one | 18:08 |
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| andrewfblack | wow I've hit 7 thumb downs now on each my blog posts now | 18:09 |
| lcuk | andrewfblack, do they all fail to show when you click them | 18:09 |
| lcuk | like it does for me | 18:09 |
| javispedro | hm... mailing list bouncing my message :S | 18:09 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: maemo-optify in extras-devel. | 18:09 |
| lcuk | :O | 18:09 |
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| X-Fade | javispedro: and it should ;) | 18:09 |
| andrewfblack | lcuk: I think its my new theme they used not to but this week they started failing some | 18:09 |
| javispedro | aw, sorry, wrong From: address :( | 18:10 |
| lcuk | andrewfblack, yeah, your theme this week has been quite gloomy :p | 18:10 |
| andrewfblack | lcuk: been a gloomy week for me | 18:11 |
| lcuk | :( | 18:11 |
| lcuk | is that why the thumbs down | 18:11 |
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| andrewfblack | lcuk: me being gloomy or bug in me theme? | 18:13 |
| andrewfblack | I think because I've been gloomy | 18:13 |
| lcuk | a bit of both i think | 18:13 |
| lcuk | you need to fix external links into your site though if you want your message | 18:14 |
| * noobmonk3y prods lcuk | 18:14 | |
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| javispedro | sigh. The only reason tmoers want more mods is to ban posters that lie to them about release date of pr1.2 :P | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | muhaha | 18:24 |
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| w00t_ | MohammadAG: ping | 18:26 |
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| * andrewfblack needs to write his own wordpress theme | 18:27 | |
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| nidO | javispedro: sounds good to me \o/ | 18:28 |
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| javispedro | nid0: bah. if the ridiculous pr1.2 thread were to gain a few posts more I would've posted that myself | 18:29 |
| javispedro | i'm sure the original grandposter of the "pr1.2 released" thread is now laughing from the comfort of his couch | 18:30 |
| andrewfblack | lcuk: there a little less gloomy looking now | 18:30 |
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| andrewfblack | wow ranked up 2 more thumb downs | 18:31 |
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| E0x | any way tool for get battery status in number , i was trying to get /proc/apci/battery/BAT0/info | 18:45 |
| E0x | but not luck | 18:45 |
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| asa | hello | 18:46 |
| asa | any GSOC mentor here? | 18:46 |
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| rm_you | is maemo/meego doing GSOC? | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 18:47 |
| rm_you | cool | 18:47 |
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| rm_you | BTW, sup Stskeeps | 18:47 |
| rm_you | :) | 18:47 |
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| Stskeeps | not much | 18:47 |
| rm_you | hows work? | 18:47 |
| Stskeeps | good | 18:48 |
| rm_you | lol | 18:48 |
| rm_you | last time you said "frustrating" so i guess things are looking up? :) | 18:48 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah - i am, working for maemo.org is cool :) | 18:49 |
| basil | hi, i upgraded my scratchbox to 1.2, now my progs don't work for the n900, how can i downgrade my scratchbox? | 18:49 |
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| MohammadAG | basil, afaik you can't | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | unless you install the old packages manually | 18:52 |
| basil | apt-get install libqt-maemo5? | 18:52 |
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| slonopotamus | mwahaha :D http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/hell.png | 19:02 |
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| Shapeshifter | basil: :o | 19:05 |
| Shapeshifter | basil: PM | 19:05 |
| basil | PM? Package Manager? | 19:06 |
| Shapeshifter | basil: private message ;) | 19:06 |
| Shapeshifter | I queried you. | 19:06 |
| basil | i'm new to irc, what means to query? | 19:07 |
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| basil | embarrasing, i know | 19:07 |
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| Shapeshifter | basil: I think you can't downgrade the SDK, you'de need to remove it and reinstall the old one. Though it might be better to find out what the actualy problem is with your progs because PR 1.2 will be out some time in the future. | 19:11 |
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| Scelt | PR 1.2 out?!? | 19:12 |
| C-S-B-N900 | when is pr1.2? | 19:12 |
| C-S-B-N900 | should be soon | 19:12 |
| javispedro | PR1.2 is out, quickly go post that on TMO! | 19:12 |
| _berto_ | we're waiting for the final release of duke nukem forever, it'll be one of the highlights in PR1.2 | 19:13 |
| t-tan | hurray!! let's start a new thread on TMO! :-D | 19:13 |
| javispedro | PR1.2 is so last week. Can we find another story already? | 19:14 |
| MohammadAG | MeeGo UI on the N900 | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | you mean a xterm? | 19:14 |
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| Scelt | PR1.2 OUTOUTUTTVITTU? | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, no a UI! (was just answering javispedro's request :P) | 19:15 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: then call it propertly! "Handset UX" | 19:15 |
| javispedro | ;P | 19:15 |
| * slonopotamus yawns | 19:15 | |
| slonopotamus | why care? | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, off to TMO then | 19:15 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 19:15 |
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| w00t_ | anyone know whether krk969 (author of showtime for maemo) comes on IRC? | 19:16 |
| javispedro | ~seen krk969 | 19:16 |
| t-tan | I want online speech recognition and translation in PR2.0 | 19:16 |
| infobot | javispedro: i haven't seen 'krk969' | 19:16 |
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| w00t_ | javispedro: he might use another nick, that's just his TMO user | 19:16 |
| * w00t_ doesn't know | 19:16 | |
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| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=49434 | 19:17 |
| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42338 | 19:17 |
| MohammadAG | :/ | 19:17 |
| javispedro | bonus points since both of the threads where in active topics a few minutes ago | 19:17 |
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| w00t_ | MohammadAG: did you have any luck btw? | 19:20 |
| w00t_ | if not I'll give it a crack in a bit | 19:21 |
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| MohammadAG | w00t_, yeah, I postponed test, so I guess that's good luck | 19:22 |
| * MohammadAG fires up scratchbox | 19:22 | |
| w00t_ | haha | 19:22 |
| w00t_ | when is it now? | 19:22 |
| MohammadAG | sat :P | 19:22 |
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| * VDVsx wonders why the channel is so quite today 0.o something happened for sure :D | 19:56 | |
| Stskeeps | dunno :P | 19:57 |
| hrw | users got tired of waiting for pr1.2 and mass sold their n900s | 19:57 |
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| VDVsx | ah, the meego forum, is everybody posting there ? :D | 19:58 |
| Shapeshifter | oh dear, they made a forum | 19:58 |
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| VDVsx | tmo 2.0 :D | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | hrw: any pointers to good cheap sells? | 19:59 |
| t-tan | lots of overclocked devices melted. the remaining healthy ones are sold on ebay for very high prices | 19:59 |
| Shapeshifter | VDVsx: btw, do you know how many gsoc applications maemo got up til now? | 20:00 |
| mikhas | I just read "users got hired for waiting for pr1.2 and mass soldered their n900s" - perhaps the pizza was too spicey, after all ... | 20:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rotfl | 20:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tell me where from you got these spices | 20:01 |
| VDVsx | Shapeshifter, not sure, didn't checked in the last two days | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, 'spices' | 20:01 |
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| Shapeshifter | VDVsx: when you last checked, how many were there? | 20:02 |
| mikhas | thoses 'spices' supposedly came from the UAE ... | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | gnhnhnhnhn | 20:03 |
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| mikhas | hmph, too late for a "1st post!" already | 20:03 |
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| * DocScrutinizer got hungry for a good pizza now | 20:04 | |
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| petteri | http://forum.meego.com | 20:05 |
| venkat | hi all, im planning to submit a gsoc app for creating a remote app for maemo, which is similar to "http://www.apple.com/itunes/remote/" | 20:05 |
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| venkat | using dacp , to control itunes | 20:05 |
| b-man|ubuntu | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=599601#post599601 :) | 20:05 |
| b-man|ubuntu | http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/fedora :) | 20:05 |
| venkat | any pointers? | 20:06 |
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| venkat | for a proof of concept, it can b tested on itunes, but adding the support for rhythmbox shd not be difficult | 20:07 |
| javispedro | b-man|ubuntu: meego! ;) | 20:07 |
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| b-man|ubuntu | javispedro: lol true xD | 20:08 |
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| Shapeshifter | venkat: to control itunes? Mh well. I'm not sure if the API is open, even. In any case, people "should" rather be using something like mpd for this stuff... it's the prime use case of one machine playing and the other being a client. and there's mpd clients for the n900 already. | 20:08 |
| venkat | dacp is what they use | 20:08 |
| venkat | its not open | 20:08 |
| VDVsx | Shapeshifter, 34, iirc | 20:08 |
| venkat | but people have ported to android | 20:08 |
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| VDVsx | mikhas, I warned you about the spices :D | 20:09 |
| venkat | so, the idea will not win? | 20:09 |
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| Shapeshifter | VDVsx: thanks | 20:10 |
| tripzero | i swear i saw "trapster" available in an app catalog.. | 20:10 |
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| venkat | Shapeshifter, so you are saying i can control my media player now with n900? | 20:10 |
| Shapeshifter | venkat: if your media player is based on mpd. which imho is a brilliant solution. | 20:11 |
| Shapeshifter | but not itunes. and while itunes support might be attractive to some people, I'd not support a rubbish piece of software like that. | 20:11 |
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| tripzero | rubbish? | 20:11 |
| Shapeshifter | itunes. | 20:11 |
| tripzero | i think you give it too much credit | 20:11 |
| tripzero | ;) | 20:12 |
| Shapeshifter | ^^ | 20:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | amarok ftw | 20:12 |
| Shapeshifter | venkat: never heard of mpd? you run the server somewhere (the part which indexes the music and holds the db) and the you use any of the gazillion clients: http://mpd.wikia.com/wiki/Clients | 20:12 |
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| venkat | multiple users can control it simultaneously? | 20:12 |
| Shapeshifter | venkat: sure | 20:13 |
| venkat | neat. will read about it | 20:13 |
| noobmonk3y | w00t_, Can i borrow your brains please? :D | 20:13 |
| w00t_ | noobmonk3y: you can certainly try | 20:13 |
| noobmonk3y | http://pastebin.com/GbdmZn2F | 20:13 |
| noobmonk3y | Sooo close but gettin goperand issues | 20:14 |
| w00t_ | which line is causing problems, and what do you get? | 20:14 |
| * w00t_ bets line 10 will be problematic | 20:14 | |
| noobmonk3y | trying to read each part of 1 line in a file so example 6000000 500000 400000 | 20:14 |
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| noobmonk3y | and yup line 10 is operanding me out | 20:14 |
| noobmonk3y | tried a few variants | 20:14 |
| w00t_ | use str() | 20:14 |
| venkat | Shapeshifter, how about bring ubuntu one to maemo? has someone applied for the same idea? | 20:14 |
| noobmonk3y | surrounding the s/1000 | 20:15 |
| w00t_ | you can't append a number to a string in python without 'casting' | 20:15 |
| w00t_ | aa = aa + str(s/100) + "MHz, " | 20:15 |
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| noobmonk3y | applied for the same idea? :| | 20:15 |
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| noobmonk3y | oh not me | 20:16 |
| noobmonk3y | lol | 20:16 |
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| venkat | its one of the listed ideas. So I thought there will be multiple students wud have opted to do the same | 20:16 |
| LuciusMare | Hi, bad things happen, and so I locked my SIM. I have no idea what could go wrong, i am sure i entered the pin correctly... So how do I, now, unlock the sim? (I *have* the PUK code) | 20:16 |
| noobmonk3y | still get an unsupported operand error for /: str and int | 20:16 |
| Shapeshifter | venkat: no idea. I applied myself with an idea. But competition seems really tough. | 20:16 |
| venkat | Shapeshifter, if u dont mind, can you share your idea that u applied for? | 20:17 |
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| Shapeshifter | venkat: why? ;) I applied for the "desktop search" widget. | 20:18 |
| venkat | Shapeshifter, simply so that i opt a different one :) | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | LuciusMare: in settings in menu there should be an unlock entry IIRC | 20:20 |
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| Shapeshifter | venkat: I bet some applied for the same project. the better applications wins I guess, *if* the proposal itself is being considered. | 20:20 |
| venkat | Shapeshifter, can you name some media players that support mpd? | 20:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: desktop search like in beagle/spotlight ? | 20:22 |
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| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: yeah | 20:22 |
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| LuciusMare | DocScrutinizer: it says "Cellular data unavailible" | 20:22 |
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| Shapeshifter | venkat: mpd itself is the "player". and there's lots of clients which control it. | 20:22 |
| LuciusMare | s/availible/available/ | 20:22 |
| infobot | LuciusMare meant: DocScrutinizer: it says "Cellular data unavailable" | 20:22 |
| Shapeshifter | venkat: I've sent you the link to the client list earlier | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | LuciusMare: please quote exactly which entry/function you used | 20:23 |
| venkat | Shapeshifter, never knew this b4!!! | 20:23 |
| LuciusMare | settings>phone | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | LuciusMare: you need to go to the menu(!) of settings | 20:24 |
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| LuciusMare | oh | 20:24 |
| LuciusMare | yes, there is, thanks :) | 20:24 |
| venkat | Shapeshifter, you are planning todo incremental search? | 20:24 |
| venkat | start giving results as and when u start typing | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | LuciusMare: if it fails to unlock for 2 times, I urgently recommend you use a simple cellphone to unlock | 20:25 |
| Shapeshifter | venkat: of course | 20:26 |
| Shapeshifter | anything else would be lame ;) | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it works, we all would like to hear of that | 20:26 |
| venkat | Shapeshifter, great how much memory do u think u will consume? | 20:26 |
| Shapeshifter | venkat: very little as the daemon is already installed and running on any n900. | 20:26 |
| Shapeshifter | I'd just be using it and writing a gui frontend. | 20:26 |
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| venkat | which daemon ? you are not going to write a daemon that indexes all data? | 20:27 |
| Shapeshifter | venkat: tracker. no need to write a new one. | 20:28 |
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| venkat | ya k | 20:28 |
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| tgalal | what is the location where menu icons are kept? | 20:28 |
| venkat | i thought u will listen on dbus get info and update urself | 20:28 |
| tgalal | menu icons for default apps, like conversations for example | 20:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: tracker will need a decent config though, plus plugins/conduits/whatyacallit for indexing contacts, SMS, all sorts of documemts, webpages, etc | 20:31 |
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| Arkenoi | freoffice: Depends: kofficemaemo but it is not going to be installed | 20:32 |
| Arkenoi | Depends: libqt4-core (>= 4.6.2~git20100224) but 4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo6+0m5 is to be installed | 20:32 |
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| Arkenoi | where do i get newer one? | 20:32 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: yeah I thought of that. luckily, some of the plugins already exist (e.g. IM or email) | 20:32 |
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| VDVsx | Shapeshifter, 46 now :D + some invalid | 20:32 |
| Shapeshifter | VDVsx: tough times. | 20:32 |
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| Shapeshifter | well for students at least ;) | 20:33 |
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| biston | good morning, i just went into the download page of MeeGo and saw that images are available now. i just want to make sure that if anything go wrong, would maemo-flasher just reload maemo kernel for me on my n900 like nothng happened? | 20:34 |
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| tripzero | biston, you do know that the meego image is just CLI right? | 20:34 |
| tripzero | there's no GUI? | 20:34 |
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| biston | yes i do | 20:34 |
| tripzero | oh, okay | 20:35 |
| biston | i read that | 20:35 |
| tripzero | then flash away | 20:35 |
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| tripzero | there's a wiki page iirc on how to do it | 20:35 |
| biston | im already there, though i don't need it | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: for the incremental search: I think that's quite hard to implement, as you usually won't get a single hit and then jump to the next one. Rather you want a list representing all hits with details about context, type of source etc. Such a list is virually impossible to update on-the-fly with incremental search, and for sure you (user) don't want to check the whole llst each time you type one additional char | 20:36 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: depends. Awesomebar does not too bad a job of it. | 20:37 |
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| Arkenoi | so how do i upgrade qt to 4.6.2? | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway. my laptop starts to smell hot... cya | 20:39 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: well for once I'd limit the incremental search to 5 or more digits, so that the volume of possible matches from tracker is much smaller. And the results would need to be ranked by relevance. | 20:39 |
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| sivang | hi all | 20:42 |
| sivang | anybody knows where to get the code for restoring an N97 Mini to factory settings? | 20:42 |
| sivang | (I am trying to do so from the phone mgmt. menu) | 20:42 |
| sivang | How odd the phone has this code from factory and I was never told about. | 20:42 |
| venkat | sivang, i think u need to press some combination of 4 keys | 20:43 |
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| venkat | google it | 20:43 |
| sivang | venkat: there's all sorts of odd side effects when you do this. | 20:43 |
| sivang | venkat: not sure this is what I want. I don't want stuff to get erased just the setting to go back to factory | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | yesyes, but if I imagine how I type 'bq24150' I hardly can see any use in a incremental search with instant presentation of the results. Maybe show me number of hits, ok. But even with full searchkey I quite usually get more than 1 even more than some 5 hits. So I'd want to type the whole searchkey without massive CPU usage possibly blocking my input, then I want to check the results and select the one I was looking for | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: ^^^ | 20:44 |
| venkat | sivang, do u need a soft reset or hard reset? | 20:44 |
| sivang | venkat: soft as far as I know | 20:44 |
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| sivang | venkat: I have a program that fails to use the Data connection for some odd reason, and when I just got the phone it worked. | 20:45 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, depends on the starting point, if you are on a list of all recipes and you search for "ca" i would expect to see the cakes etc filtered down | 20:45 |
| sivang | venkat: soft reset is that the menu offers no? | 20:45 |
| lcuk | but if you are starting from blankness you can waitfor the user to press return etc - tho the ux for that is misleading at times | 20:45 |
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| venkat | i remember seeing in some menus | 20:45 |
| venkat | 4 key combination is hard reset | 20:45 |
| venkat | it will also not delete your stuff | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: that's not the way a desktop indexer works, though | 20:46 |
| venkat | sivang, s | 20:46 |
| sivang | and then I could st the lock code? | 20:46 |
| lcuk | sivang, go to a symbian forum or google | 20:46 |
| sivang | This is so confusing. | 20:46 |
| sivang | I wonder if there's something in the manual for that. | 20:46 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, depends, theres many variations on search :) | 20:46 |
| lcuk | have you seen how i do it? | 20:46 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CtynM36kxY | 20:47 |
| sivang | lcuk: right, so there's are those impossible key combinations. | 20:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: with a system global search there's no such thing like a startpoint | 20:48 |
| lcuk | sure there is | 20:49 |
| lcuk | awesome bar - find as you type - starts from everything but has no ui showing | 20:49 |
| lcuk | or showing a list of emails in thunderbird, searching waits until you press enter | 20:50 |
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| lcuk | wiating for enter ux though is bad - because you engage the possibility of having a search term at the top thats not related to the items in the list below | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf has showing mails in a mailer prog to do with a system global search like spotlight? | 20:51 |
| lcuk | different search strategies that are used | 20:51 |
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| ghostcube_maemo | hi | 20:55 |
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| tripzero | okay, this may sound like an uber stupid question, but how do i activate the autocomplete? | 20:58 |
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| tripzero | i see it autocompleting, but what button is the "use the autocompleted word" button? | 20:59 |
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| frosty` | tripzero: right arrow? | 21:01 |
| noobmonk3y | w00t_, finally! got it working with - aa = str(aa) + str((int(words)/1000)) + "MHz, " | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | Shapeshifter: indexer is kinda your private little googlebot. desktop search is similar to http://google.com. Is there any incremental search on google.com? guess why! | 21:01 |
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| noobmonk3y | had to declare ints/str's quite specifically :P | 21:02 |
| w00t_ | facebrick packaged and seemingly working thanks to some help from MohammadAG \o/ | 21:02 |
| MohammadAG | np :) | 21:03 |
| lcuk | w00t_, facebrick? :D | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG | you figured out most of the problems though :) | 21:03 |
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| w00t_ | lcuk: that's what I decided to call it yes :D | 21:03 |
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| moo--- | hey w00t_ | 21:03 |
| w00t_ | moo---: hi | 21:03 |
| lcuk | excellent naming choice :) | 21:03 |
| tripzero | frosty`, there's a right arrow in the osk? | 21:03 |
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| w00t_ | MohammadAG: you know how we get this into extras-devel? | 21:03 |
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| * lcuk waves @ marmoute | 21:04 | |
| lcuk | marcoil too | 21:04 |
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| tripzero | initiate autocomplete in the osk anyone? | 21:04 |
| w00t_ | marcoil: \o | 21:04 |
| w00t_ | (burchr here) | 21:05 |
| * VDVsx waves at lcuk :P | 21:05 | |
| * lcuk throws a pie @ VDVsx | 21:05 | |
| lcuk | still eating in my kebab shop? | 21:05 |
| MohammadAG | w00t_, yep | 21:05 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, eheheh | 21:05 |
| MohammadAG | w00t_, free right? | 21:05 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, went there today with mikhas :D | 21:05 |
| lcuk | haha cool | 21:05 |
| sivang | okay, so the lock code was 12345 | 21:05 |
| w00t_ | MohammadAG: yes | 21:05 |
| sivang | interesting. | 21:05 |
| * noobmonk3y blinks | 21:05 | |
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| sivang | Now, is there a way to uninstall an S60 app that has gone bad? | 21:06 |
| lcuk | VDVsx, :) will have a bite with you next time im over | 21:06 |
| VDVsx | lcuk, the pizza is good there | 21:06 |
| * lcuk nods | 21:06 | |
| sivang | what could make it not find/use the 3G data connection ? | 21:06 |
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| MohammadAG | w00t_, a simple build without the -b should produce the files extras-assistant needs | 21:06 |
| w00t_ | MohammadAG: interesting | 21:06 |
| MohammadAG | .changes, .dsc, and .tar.gz | 21:07 |
| MohammadAG | the autobuilder will then build it | 21:07 |
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| mikhas | yup, lcuk - good place | 21:07 |
| * MohammadAG hates how cloaking isn't allowed/possible here | 21:08 | |
| * noobmonk3y thinks either tinterweb is falling over or my connection is :| | 21:08 | |
| MohammadAG | here = freenode btw | 21:08 |
| lcuk | MohammadAG, ? | 21:08 |
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| lcuk | most have cloaks | 21:08 |
| noobmonk3y | MohammadAG, thought that a few peeps here had cloaks? | 21:08 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, visible IP instead of a hostname | 21:08 |
| MohammadAG | lcuk, not by default though right? | 21:08 |
| lcuk | check mine | 21:08 |
| * VDVsx still has a council cloak :P | 21:08 | |
| lcuk | no, you request it | 21:08 |
| lcuk | you have to be an upstanding member of the community | 21:09 |
| MohammadAG | /hs request? | 21:09 |
| lcuk | so thats why you havent got one | 21:09 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not an upstanding member? | 21:09 |
| javispedro | you can also donate to freenode and they'll give one | 21:09 |
| javispedro | 15$ iirc | 21:09 |
| * noobmonk3y requests that lcuk gets noobmonk3y a beer...... | 21:09 | |
| MohammadAG | lol | 21:09 |
| frals | you can get unaffiliated for free im pretty sure | 21:09 |
| * lcuk acks the request and produces white elephant joke | 21:10 | |
| lcuk | VDVsx, who does cloaks, is it GAN900 | 21:10 |
| * frals laughs at noobmonk3y, ive already had 3 beers today mouhaha | 21:10 | |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade | 21:10 |
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| * noobmonk3y whinges | 21:10 | |
| VDVsx | lcuk, X-Fade | 21:10 |
| noobmonk3y | erm i thought X-Fade did | 21:10 |
| lcuk | there you go then MohammadAG | 21:10 |
| MohammadAG | thanks | 21:10 |
| noobmonk3y | there is a post on tmo about it somewhere | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer-8 | MohammadAG: join #freenode, ask for unaffiliated cloak | 21:11 |
| * noobmonk3y steals frals beers | 21:11 | |
| frals | long gone... :D | 21:11 |
| javispedro | "If you're thinking about getting a generic cloak, though, please consider instead making a donation to Peer-Directed Projects Center." | 21:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, Maemo Contributor cloak is 500 karma. | 21:11 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer-8, will do in a while | 21:11 |
| * lcuk steals noobmonk3y's chair whilst hes stealing beers | 21:11 | |
| noobmonk3y | lol | 21:11 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, lol i thought i was joking | 21:11 |
| * noobmonk3y does have 3 beers in the fridge just one more h/c version to upload b4 i can be arsed to get up n get one | 21:11 | |
| lcuk | i didnt realise it was a serious requirement | 21:11 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:11 |
| noobmonk3y | lcuk, - lying on a bed | 21:11 |
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| lcuk | after you wore yourself out losing at football? | 21:12 |
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| lcuk | bbl | 21:13 |
| noobmonk3y | :( | 21:13 |
| noobmonk3y | kk | 21:14 |
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| javispedro | 237 out of 238 hunks FAILED. ah.. | 21:20 |
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| E0x | how long tame the n900 to do a full recharge ? | 21:23 |
| E0x | ( battery recharge ) | 21:23 |
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| noobmonk3y | 2hrs ish | 21:23 |
| noobmonk3y | maybe 3 does depend on the charger tho | 21:24 |
| MohammadAG | 4h here | 21:24 |
| MohammadAG | but that's because I don't let it idle while charging | 21:24 |
| w00t_ | http://i41.tinypic.com/103gbjm.png | http://i42.tinypic.com/1ekx1u.png | http://i40.tinypic.com/16gixlk.png <- anyone got opinions on which is nicer? :) | 21:24 |
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| brik | w00t_: first one | 21:26 |
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| w00t_ | bear in mind that will be used in app listing, so shadow might affect it.. I honestly don't know | 21:27 |
| w00t_ | noobmonk3y: take a look :P | 21:27 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: you too! | 21:27 |
| noobmonk3y | 2nd or third | 21:27 |
| noobmonk3y | 2nd i say | 21:27 |
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| w00t_ | MohammadAG: one vote for each, I say you decide :P | 21:28 |
| lcuk | "f" is wrong :p | 21:29 |
| * MohammadAG asks again | 21:29 | |
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| lcuk | or is that your personal rating :p | 21:29 |
| MohammadAG | which one is good for the maemo launcher | 21:29 |
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| pupnik | w00t_: no idea which | 21:31 |
| brik | with a light theme, I guess the shadow will show | 21:31 |
| w00t_ | ok, that's an important distinction i should have made | 21:31 |
| w00t_ | :) | 21:31 |
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| brik | some of the icons in app reader have shadows too, like file browser, pdf reader, rrs reader | 21:37 |
| brik | and at least imo, they look better than the flat ones :p | 21:38 |
| * VDVsx happily notices that the meego forum is still sane :) | 21:39 | |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer-8: well, yes there is incremental search on google.com | 21:39 |
| * RST38h happily yawns and swallows a live mouse | 21:40 | |
| RST38h | VDVsx: Meego has got a forum? | 21:40 |
| VDVsx | RST38h, yes :D | 21:40 |
| MohammadAG | so which icon should w00t_ use? | 21:40 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: URL? =) | 21:41 |
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| VDVsx | RST38h, http://forum.meego.com/ | 21:41 |
| VDVsx | sso from meego.com :D | 21:41 |
| RST38h | ah so obvious | 21:41 |
| RST38h | VDVsx: I guess, there are no Meego devices yet, so lemmings stay away | 21:42 |
| MohammadAG | w00t_, I like the second one more, since it should fit in all themes | 21:42 |
| MohammadAG | actually, they all have minor changes, so they can be changed later | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hooboy, another TSG meeting. | 21:43 |
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| w00t_ | MohammadAG: go for it | 21:44 |
| * GeneralAntilles gets crackers and hummus. | 21:44 | |
| RST38h | General: Will they...like...decide something? | 21:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, no idea, I haven't even looked at the agenda. | 21:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings#Next_TSG_meeting | 21:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, looks like a good one to just catch the minutes of. . . . | 21:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | Shapeshifter: obviously your definition of incremental search is absolutely different to mine | 21:47 |
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| RST38h | Oh well. | 21:47 |
| ghostcube_maemo | will meego still be dpkg based and .deb | 21:47 |
| venkat | Shapeshifter, what google has as incremental is just suggestions | 21:47 |
| venkat | it will be nice if u cud give out results | 21:48 |
| * ghostcube_maemo prays | 21:48 | |
| venkat | something like gnome-do | 21:48 |
| * javispedro posts TMO thread: N920 unveiled! more information in forums.meego.com | 21:48 | |
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| petteri | ghostcube_maemo: no. intel devs hate debian, dpkg and .deb | 21:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | Shapeshifter: the only thing on http://google.com I can find that maybe might resemble faintly to an incremental search, is the word completion dropdown in searchkey textbox. This isn't any real search at all though | 21:51 |
| ghostcube_maemo | oh | 21:51 |
| ghostcube_maemo | i hate rpm | 21:51 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | I don't hate rpm, but deb is so much better! | 21:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer-8 | Shapeshifter: as it doesn't show any (dereferentiation) *results*, it only helps to find completions for the search *key* | 21:53 |
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| ghostcube_maemo | yeah deb just works | 21:53 |
| E0x | ptl_demands_PR12: rpm deltas in the new rpm version is cool | 21:53 |
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| E0x | but i feel that installing program rpm is more slow | 21:53 |
| E0x | that other packages | 21:53 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | E0x: I'd prefer rpm if that rollback feature they implemented once was not reversed. | 21:54 |
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| E0x | ptl_demands_PR12: deb don't have rollback | 21:54 |
| E0x | so | 21:54 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | E0x: but they took it off... That feature alone would make rpm be superior to deb. | 21:54 |
| ghostcube_maemo | i run deb now for 13years | 21:54 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | yes | 21:54 |
| luke-jr | E0x: rollback? wtf? | 21:54 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | neither deb nor rpm have rollback currently. | 21:54 |
| E0x | the delta feature are nice | 21:54 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | rpm has had this feature once, and it was reversed. | 21:55 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | deb also has deltas, isn't it? udeb | 21:55 |
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| E0x | some solaris distro that are like debian but with solaris kernel | 21:55 |
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| E0x | do a some rollback technique | 21:55 |
| E0x | using zfs | 21:55 |
| luke-jr | ... | 21:55 |
| pupnik | can we avoid rescanning entire database? | 21:55 |
| E0x | ptl_demands_PR12: a least in debian i don't remember saw the delta | 21:56 |
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| E0x | you need download the fullpackages | 21:56 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | E0x: it's not used | 21:56 |
| ghostcube_maemo | any date for 1.2 so far? | 21:56 |
| shvedsky | is it ok to talk here about summer-of-code? | 21:57 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | shvedsky: why wouldn't it be? | 21:57 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | ghostcube_maemo: LOL | 21:57 |
| * luke-jr ponders an OS that, if it fails to boot, branches the disk state and boots the last working one with the new one mounted | 21:57 | |
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| E0x | luke-jr: windows "do" that | 21:58 |
| shvedsky | ptl_demands_PR12: maybe there's a separate channel for that, like in other places | 21:58 |
| * ptl_demands_PR12 ponders an OS that, when a library is updated, dynamically relinks all the programs in memory that use it if the newer version has the same binary interface | 21:58 | |
| shvedsky | I'd like to ask if the idea of cloning Locality from Android is still alive and has chances to be mentored | 21:59 |
| luke-jr | ptl_demands_PR12: that's asking for problems | 21:59 |
| luke-jr | consistent ABI != consistent internal state | 21:59 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer-8: I see. | 21:59 |
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| luke-jr | would be nice if a SCM tracked compatibility... internal state, ABI, and API | 22:00 |
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| luke-jr | or perhaps just an app to analyze two source trees and make such a judgement | 22:00 |
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| shvedsky | thp? epage? are you here? | 22:01 |
| PhonicUK | hey all. on the N900 where rootfs is roughly 230MB, is only 13MB of free space a problem? | 22:01 |
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| noobmonk3y | hmmmm if i where to try and use cairo in pyqt - anyidea what i need to "import" at the beginning? jusy import pycairo ? | 22:02 |
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| noobmonk3y | PhonicUK, not nescessarily - but for instance, just enabling extras devel on that would eat up your 13mb in one go | 22:03 |
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| noobmonk3y | i try to stick above 25mb for safety :D | 22:03 |
| PhonicUK | ive already got extras devel on :) | 22:03 |
| noobmonk3y | :D was just an example | 22:03 |
| noobmonk3y | if something else suddenly swallowed 18mb.... it wouldnt be a happy bunny | 22:04 |
| PhonicUK | trying to figure out what i can move/remove to sort it out a bit | 22:04 |
| noobmonk3y | just disable repos | 22:04 |
| noobmonk3y | use only when you need too ;) | 22:04 |
| PhonicUK | oh ok :) | 22:04 |
| noobmonk3y | use the wkiki, it has some useful things to help you out :) | 22:04 |
| noobmonk3y | wiki | 22:04 |
| noobmonk3y | ie, python-optify | 22:04 |
| PhonicUK | so disabling them without deleting them removes the repo index? | 22:05 |
| noobmonk3y | http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space | 22:05 |
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| noobmonk3y | yup | 22:05 |
| PhonicUK | awesome | 22:05 |
| noobmonk3y | :D | 22:05 |
| shvedsky | (another GSoC question) is it ok to apply if I never developed on maemo or any other mobile platform? | 22:05 |
| PhonicUK | ill disable sdk as well then | 22:05 |
| noobmonk3y | shvedsky, i asked that and got told it was fine, as long as you are willing ;) | 22:05 |
| noobmonk3y | lol PhonicUK | 22:06 |
| noobmonk3y | ie, willing to learn shvedsky | 22:06 |
| PhonicUK | xchat on the bus = awesome | 22:06 |
| noobmonk3y | PhonicUK, yup!!!! | 22:06 |
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| noobmonk3y | :D works really well! | 22:06 |
| noobmonk3y | i'm currently on holiday, and the n900 is my wifi hotspot :D | 22:07 |
| noobmonk3y | (and radiator lol!) | 22:07 |
| shvedsky | noobmonk3y: okay, thanks. | 22:07 |
| shvedsky | yeah, maemo is a nice radiator, much nicer than my previous pda | 22:07 |
| shvedsky | n900* | 22:07 |
| shvedsky | so, I hope that this soc will give me a unique chance to develop on radiators. :-) | 22:08 |
| noobmonk3y | :D :D | 22:08 |
| PhonicUK | i love maemo | 22:08 |
| noobmonk3y | maemo doesn't love me, she two timed me | 22:08 |
| PhonicUK | esp since i came from the world of symbian on my n97 | 22:08 |
| noobmonk3y | ran of with MohammadAG and got over clocked | 22:08 |
| PhonicUK | lol | 22:08 |
| noobmonk3y | ahhhhhhh - i never really was a phone person | 22:09 |
| noobmonk3y | loved computers, but phones never held my interest | 22:09 |
| noobmonk3y | way too small | 22:09 |
| PhonicUK | lol | 22:09 |
| PhonicUK | i love my phone | 22:09 |
| noobmonk3y | i think the n900 just about converted me :P | 22:09 |
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| PhonicUK | missing spotify tho | 22:09 |
| noobmonk3y | meh my e71 is looking lonely on the floor | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG | noobmonk3y, you overclocked? | 22:09 |
| noobmonk3y | MohammadAG, nooooooooo, my balls arn't as big as yours ;) | 22:09 |
| PhonicUK | brb bus stop soon | 22:09 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 22:09 |
| noobmonk3y | lol | 22:10 |
| noobmonk3y | and your n900 cant control the bus? darn | 22:10 |
| PhonicUK | roffle | 22:10 |
| MohammadAG | he doesn't have the daemon to do it | 22:10 |
| PhonicUK | stood up waiting to stop | 22:10 |
| PhonicUK | darn traffic lights | 22:10 |
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| PhonicUK | hmm still only 14mb after turning off sdk and extras | 22:12 |
| SpeedEvil | find / -mount -size +100k -ctime -40 | 22:12 |
| SpeedEvil | oh | 22:12 |
| SpeedEvil | nvm | 22:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | stupid busybox | 22:12 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | lol | 22:12 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | /usr/gnu/bin/find then | 22:12 |
| Scelt | ptl_demands_PR12: PR1.2 OUT? | 22:12 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Scelt: of course not, otherwise I wouldn't be using this nickname :) | 22:13 |
| Scelt | ptl_demands_PR12: just checking | 22:13 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | sorry, it's not /usr/gnu/bin/find, it's /usr/bin/gnu/find | 22:13 |
| shvedsky | isn't there a bot that can be asked about maemo updates? | 22:13 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | let's make a riot so that nokia releases PR1.2 and we'll all be happy | 22:14 |
| PhonicUK | aah home :) | 22:14 |
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| PhonicUK | lol | 22:14 |
| PhonicUK | i want adobe to release flash 10.1 | 22:15 |
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| PhonicUK | so i can watch iplayer | 22:15 |
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| PhonicUK | 4od works perfectly though | 22:15 |
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| PhonicUK | especially in full screen | 22:15 |
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| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, i can't see your point | 22:16 |
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| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, it's kind of an insane demand, I hope you understand that too | 22:17 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: repositories not lacking libhildon1 anymore, being able to see the same packages as in scratchbox, being able to properly use QT 4.6.2, having usability bugs fixed, etc. | 22:17 |
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| Surfa | and? | 22:18 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | insane? I think it's more insane to keep delaying the update... | 22:18 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | and? | 22:18 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | it is as I said | 22:18 |
| Surfa | you definitely want something that is not ready for release? | 22:18 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Nokia has a bugtracker | 22:18 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | many bugs are marked as FIXED. | 22:18 |
| Surfa | ..many bugs.. right | 22:18 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | They must be released, it they are fixed. | 22:18 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | this is the open source way. Release early, release often. | 22:18 |
| flux | ptl_demands_pr12, obviosuly they are just keeping a completely tested and otherwise ready version just to make hordes unhappy | 22:19 |
| Surfa | release crap | 22:19 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | Come on, this testing excuse is more lame each day. | 22:19 |
| flux | but yeah, I wouldn't mind if the upgraded packages were available as they come. infact I'm sure many people would be happy to be 'beta testers' in this fashion. | 22:19 |
| Surfa | i can't see how global company could release untested and unreliable stuff too early | 22:19 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | You can't keep testing forever, the packages work in scratchbox and such. | 22:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Surfa: ask microsoft. | 22:20 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Someone could tolerate a small delay, but it's respect to their customers. | 22:20 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | And everybody knew very early about PR1.2 | 22:20 |
| Surfa | SpeedEvil, and microsoft is related to pr1.2 how? | 22:20 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Yes, there is an expectancy that must be fulfilled. | 22:20 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | It's part of the vendor-customer relationship. | 22:20 |
| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, and what a cry would it cause if there were severe additional bugs released | 22:21 |
| javispedro | good lord | 22:21 |
| Surfa | now it's just geeks that are unhappy, then it would be everyone | 22:21 |
| javispedro | who decided to use stackable windows in xchat? | 22:21 |
| SpeedEvil | (08:19:52 PM) Surfa: i can't see how global company could release untested and unreliable stuff too early | 22:22 |
| Surfa | that's vendor-customer relationship | 22:22 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: for what? | 22:22 |
| Surfa | and it's completely measurable with money | 22:22 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: then you're not paying attention to the several forums with non-geeks asking for that | 22:22 |
| javispedro | speedevil, for everything | 22:22 |
| Surfa | SpeedEvil, and if you didn't notice we were talking about nokia and maemo right now | 22:22 |
| javispedro | breaks "each channel in its own window" scenario | 22:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: what do you mean by stackable windows? | 22:23 |
| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, who cares if people who don't have any idea of the maturity of a release are demanding it? | 22:23 |
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| Mece | any particular reason why there is no UAE in maemo repos? | 22:23 |
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| Surfa | it's better that company decides when it's ready to go | 22:23 |
| * noobmonk3y_ prods noobmonk3y | 22:23 | |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: if the people are their customers, yes, Nokia should care. | 22:23 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: now you demand geekiness from non-geeks? | 22:23 |
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| javispedro | speedevil, its that hildon feature where one window stacks over another one instead of having two windows | 22:24 |
| javispedro | think modest's message view | 22:24 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: ah. | 22:24 |
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| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, what are you talking about? | 22:24 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: never used modest | 22:24 |
| noobmonk3y_ | MohammadAG, !!!! wohoooooooooo | 22:24 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: that's not for the main conversation windows thogh | 22:24 |
| microlith | javispedro: where is that happening in xchat? | 22:24 |
| javispedro | microlith, speedevil: disable tabs in xchat and you'll see | 22:25 |
| thp | shvedsky: what's up? | 22:25 |
| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, luckily you're not the one to decide when nokia releases something, your attitude is just certain death for business of any kind | 22:25 |
| * noobmonk3y_ lols | 22:25 | |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: first you say the public is geeks only, like being geek disqualifies asking something. Now you do the opposite, since I said there are non-geeks demanding it also, you shift to the 'immature' adjective. It doesn't matter if they are geek, mature or immature, and so on: they are customers. | 22:25 |
| javispedro | (have to restart to see effect, and of course, be in more than one channel) | 22:25 |
| Surfa | yeah right :) | 22:25 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: I think the opposite. | 22:25 |
| noobmonk3y_ | thp, never really did thank you for all your help last month, when i started trying to code :D :D - so thankee :D | 22:25 |
| flux | ptl_demands_pr12, so in your opinion nokia bottom line would be better if they released early rather than later? | 22:25 |
| microlith | javispedro: oh, no way. agreed that is suboptimal though. | 22:26 |
| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, that makes me wonder how qualified you are within this area | 22:26 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: Nokia is really shooting its foot, by not proving itself a trustful company, by delaying something that shouldn't take so long. | 22:26 |
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| microlith | ptl_demands_PR12: you have no knowing how long it should take | 22:26 |
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| Surfa | if it's not finished and ready to go, how on earth do you think it can be released? | 22:26 |
| thp | noobmonk3y_: no problem :) | 22:26 |
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| microlith | know way of knowing* | 22:26 |
| microlith | @#$# | 22:26 |
| noobmonk3y_ | :D - version 1.0.0-0 gone to extras devel, and into testing soon :D | 22:26 |
| microlith | cannot type today | 22:26 |
| * noobmonk3y_ can't type normally! | 22:27 | |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | flux: they released PR1.2 for scratchbox. They marked bugs as fixed. And it's taking too long to show the same codes to the production release. What I say is that they are taking much, much longer than they should to get this 'tested.' | 22:27 |
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| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, something is not ready simply by you saying that it is | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | 1 | 22:27 |
| Surfa | or that you think it's taking too long | 22:27 |
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| * noobmonk3y_ agrees | 22:27 | |
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| Surfa | that's not a measure for software maturity | 22:27 |
| noobmonk3y_ | Stskeeps, moved... might have even been a blink | 22:27 |
| flux | ptl_demands_pr12, so your view is that they have a finished product and they refuse to release it. I'm thinking maybe nokia doesn't share your view. | 22:27 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: why would I want to disable tabs? | 22:27 |
| DrGrov | can't someone just shut the fcuk up about PR 1.2? I am getting insane if people keep talking about it coming, not coming, testing here, testing there....... | 22:27 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: but K. Never hit that, as I don't | 22:28 |
| DrGrov | Just my 0.02 cents though... | 22:28 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | flux: if PR1.2 is not released one year from now, would your argument change? | 22:28 |
| noobmonk3y_ | lol | 22:28 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | flux: you're not taking into consideration the time, like it's negligible. | 22:28 |
| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, subjective views from people lacking sufficient knowledge can't be regarded as a sign for mature enough software | 22:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I have xchat setup as http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4500259237/ | 22:28 |
| SpeedEvil | which works for me | 22:28 |
| flux | ptl_demands_pr12, yes it would. a few months is not in my opinion a long time in the software business. | 22:28 |
| javispedro | speedevil: to see more than one channel in task viewer. i also kind of dislike duplicated features (window management) | 22:29 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 22:29 |
| flux | what showstopper bugs are theere that require the release of pr1.2? | 22:29 |
| sejo | hey all I created a small python qt gui for the n900 (for entering numbers to block) but how do I get it to use the style of the theme? or should I stick with GTK+? | 22:29 |
| * sejo waves to fellow belgian pvanhoof_ | 22:29 | |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: there are many more people demanding this, you can't simple assume they lack sufficiente knowledge by face value. I've been in software development and I have took part of the testing stage, and, although it was a different business, I have notion about that. | 22:29 |
| noobmonk3y_ | ~ping | 22:29 |
| infobot | ~pong | 22:29 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: yeah. The task viewer blows IMO. I mean sure it's whizzy, and shizzle. But it fails on the fundamental task of being able to bounce between tasks rapidly. | 22:29 |
| * pvanhoof_ waves back | 22:29 | |
| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, none of people demanding that know certainly nothing about the pr1.2 maturity | 22:30 |
| Surfa | that's a fact that nothing you say will change :) | 22:30 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: yeah, like you have read all their takes on this subject. | 22:30 |
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| Surfa | nokia engineers are only people who know the current situation and they aren't demanding anything | 22:30 |
| DrGrov | come on guys... still PR 1.2 coming or not coming bullshit? | 22:30 |
| *** pvanhoof_ is now known as pvanhoof | 22:30 | |
| DrGrov | It will come when it comes | 22:30 |
| DrGrov | I have learned to accept this with PR 1.2 | 22:31 |
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| Surfa | they already have latest sw if they want to | 22:31 |
| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, whatever people outside nokia write don't change the things that they KNOW | 22:31 |
| Surfa | it's all about what they think they know | 22:31 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | it changes the customer trust to Nokia. | 22:32 |
| Surfa | that attitude of yours doesn't make any money for companies.. releasing crap is only harming company reputation, even more than delays | 22:32 |
| Surfa | wheter you like it or not | 22:33 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Well, maybe I should stop complaining in name of all the people in the forums with which I talk and just switch to the competitor. | 22:33 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | It'd be better, I'd not be called a troll and wouldn't stress myself. | 22:33 |
| Surfa | you just don't get it | 22:33 |
| * noobmonk3y_ thinks ptl_demands_PR12 needs a beer :P | 22:33 | |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | I prefer the GNU/Linux architecture that maemo/meego uses but I am getting really tired of this. | 22:33 |
| * lcuk does too | 22:33 | |
| Surfa | how difficult it is to understand that nokia can't release something that isn't mature enough? | 22:34 |
| microlith | ptl_demands_PR12: arguing in here or on TMO accomplishes nothing. no one in here can help your cause. | 22:34 |
| lcuk | (beer) | 22:34 |
| Jaffa | re | 22:34 |
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| lcuk | hey jaffa | 22:34 |
| noobmonk3y_ | (beers >= Beer) | 22:34 |
| lcuk | microlith, jaffa just turned up | 22:34 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | microlith: maybe, maybe not. There are nokia people here... | 22:34 |
| dotblank | Is it possible to put symbolic links or fifos in the MyDocs directory | 22:34 |
| microlith | ptl_demands_PR12: you could always go to the competitor, and never know if you'll ever get an update | 22:34 |
| * SpeedEvil is awaiting delivery of his Jaffa Cakes. | 22:34 | |
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| greenfly | dotblank: not while it's a fat32 file system | 22:34 |
| lcuk | he is elected member of your council | 22:34 |
| Surfa | "who cares if phone calls don't work or sms doesn't arrive, but ptl got his new pr1.2 *hooray*" | 22:34 |
| noobmonk3y_ | whos council? | 22:34 |
| Shapeshifter | dotblank: afaik fat doesn't support those. just try. | 22:34 |
| noobmonk3y_ | is he a tory? ;) | 22:34 |
| lcuk | ^ yours ^ | 22:35 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: that wouldn't be bugfixes at all | 22:35 |
| noobmonk3y_ | tory cakes .... from now on....... | 22:35 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank: no | 22:35 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank: it isn't | 22:35 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank: for my music I worked around it | 22:35 |
| * Arkenoi wants pr1.2 because abbra promised me that keyboard layout bug which prevents me from having different "blue" keys for different input languages will be fixed there | 22:35 | |
| noobmonk3y_ | actually i see jaffa as more of a green party man ;) | 22:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | dotblank: I have /home/user/data as a 28G ext3 fs | 22:35 |
| dotblank | Shapeshifter, I already did.. I thought it was because of the fat32 restriction... | 22:35 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: you're exaggerating... As I said, PR1.2 has been released -- in scratchbox. | 22:35 |
| dotblank | SpeedEvil, oh I could just mount a folder | 22:35 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank: I told tracker to also index /home/user/data/sounds/ | 22:35 |
| Surfa | ptl_demands_PR12, how much experience do you have on sw development? | 22:35 |
| Surfa | bug fixes tend to have effects on working functionality too | 22:36 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | Surfa: about 5 years coding in C and C++ | 22:36 |
| dotblank | well the problem is that some of the menus ofor fuile selection wont give you acces to root | 22:36 |
| Surfa | and still you don't see my point? good god.. | 22:36 |
| Arkenoi | well, how do i install qt 4.6.2 now? | 22:36 |
| noobmonk3y_ | lcuk, healthcheck 1.0.0-0 in extras devel :D | 22:36 |
| VDVsx | Arkenoi, ahha, that's good, I hope that guy is the dev working on that :p | 22:36 |
| nidO | evening all | 22:36 |
| SpeedEvil | # List of directory roots to index and watch (separator=;) | 22:36 |
| SpeedEvil | WatchDirectoryRoots=$HOME/data/sounds/;$HOME/MyDocs/.documents/;$HOME/MyDocs/.videos/;$HOME/MyDocs/.images/;$HOME/MyDocs/.camera/; | 22:36 |
| noobmonk3y_ | hey nidO | 22:36 |
| cehteh | btw, i never tried, is sip as well integrated in the phone app as skype? | 22:36 |
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| Jaffa | noobmonk3y_: Capitalism FTW. Actually, after the Digital Economy Bill mess, I'm pissed off with the lot of them. | 22:37 |
| noobmonk3y_ | awwwwwwww | 22:37 |
| frals | VDVsx: hows the radison seaside hotel in hel? youve stayed there yeah? | 22:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Jaffa: It's OK. Just get a VPN to russia. | 22:37 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: Oh, btw, thoughts from Testing Squad on multiple QA repos welcome | 22:37 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 22:37 |
| noobmonk3y_ | Jaffa, maemo party ftw? determined to ensure nokia deliver PR 1.2 on time? whenever that may be lol | 22:37 |
| noobmonk3y_ | ;) | 22:37 |
| VDVsx | frals, is good, I'm here now ;) | 22:37 |
| Jaffa | noobmonk3y_: Some of the ideas from the Maemo community are more weird than the Greens' ;-) | 22:38 |
| frals | VDVsx: cool :) | 22:38 |
| noobmonk3y_ | lol very good point! | 22:38 |
| frals | im coming over err | 22:38 |
| dotblank | SpeedEvil, does that make it possible for me to select files not on the fat32 partition? | 22:38 |
| noobmonk3y_ | ooo frals going on another jolly? ;) | 22:38 |
| dotblank | SpeedEvil, Is there a way to set the file selection dialog to show root | 22:38 |
| frals | VDVsx: landing in hel the 25th and leaving on the 27th | 22:38 |
| frals | fancy a meet up? ;) | 22:38 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank: no - it means that tehy show up in programs that use the tracker - so all audio there pops up in music player | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | cehteh: yes | 22:38 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank: no idea. | 22:38 |
| dotblank | hmm | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | sip and skype integrated in the same way | 22:38 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank: why do you want it to | 22:38 |
| cehteh | thanks | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | you tap on the 'cellular' item in the dialer and select sip instead of skype | 22:39 |
| dotblank | SpeedEvil, What I was going to try is make a random SMS alert | 22:39 |
| * cehteh should setup a sip proxy | 22:39 | |
| timeless_mbp | or you get another box in the contact that lets you dial the number w/ sip | 22:39 |
| dotblank | so I wanted to make a fifo that the program can use as its sound file | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | note that if you have multiple sip gateways configured, things aren't as friendly | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | but well… it's assumed you won't do that | 22:39 |
| VDVsx | frals, good good, I'll be living next to that hotel, so poke me :) | 22:39 |
| Gadgetoid_mbp | Shakawkaw kaw kaw kaka kaw, shakaka kaw kaw | 22:39 |
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| cehteh | timeless: well i cant find how to ad-hoc call someone over sip without a contact | 22:39 |
| dotblank | Then make a while loop cat the random sound clip to the fifo in the background | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | (afaiu we don't support multiple concurrent skype accounts) | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | cehteh: from memory you can enter a non phone number into the dialer as long as you've selected sip instead of cellular in the drop down | 22:40 |
| noobmonk3y_ | VDVsx, poking in helsinki, sounds like something tigerwoods would say | 22:40 |
| SpeedEvil | dotblank: i recall a way from the command line to set the various sounds | 22:40 |
| cehteh | only skype and phone here in the dropdown, no sip | 22:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | dotblank: unfortunately, I've forgotten what it is | 22:40 |
| SpeedEvil | was | 22:41 |
| timeless_mbp | cehteh: did you setup your sip account? | 22:41 |
| dotblank | hmm | 22:41 |
| timeless_mbp | if you mean sip w/o a sip account | 22:41 |
| timeless_mbp | yeah, we don't do that | 22:41 |
| cehteh | timeless: no, but sip should work without, in the most basic way you can call to a ip address directly | 22:41 |
| frals | VDVsx: will do :) | 22:41 |
| dotblank | well If I can just get a link to the root folder where I can create fifos or symlinks i would be fine | 22:41 |
| cehteh | ok :) | 22:41 |
| VDVsx | noobmonk3y_, lolol | 22:41 |
| noobmonk3y_ | :D | 22:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | cehteh: conceptually that part's just confusing :) | 22:42 |
| dotblank | I could try mounting a 1mb ext3 FS in a folder on the fat32 right/ | 22:42 |
| timeless_mbp | i mean, i've had people try to explain it to me before, and clearly i can't remember it :) | 22:42 |
| cehteh | yeah i just install a sip proxy | 22:42 |
| dotblank | and make a fifo in it | 22:42 |
| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, btw, still in HEL ? | 22:42 |
| timeless_mbp | VDVsx: 'still'? | 22:42 |
| cehteh | dotblank: yes | 22:42 |
| timeless_mbp | i just got back yesterday | 22:42 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: If you do the above - and setup sounds as I suggested - then you should be able to reach a soundfile on an ext3 partition . then make this a link | 22:42 |
| timeless_mbp | Jaffa: 1.2 really zapped red pill, right? | 22:43 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: what? | 22:43 |
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| VDVsx | timeless_mbp, ah lol, bad wording, we need to meet for beer one of these days :P | 22:43 |
| timeless_mbp | well, hrm, it's ~11pm | 22:44 |
| * timeless_mbp should go home | 22:44 | |
| * noobmonk3y_ still wants a beer | 22:45 | |
| VDVsx | and it's very foggy :) | 22:45 |
| timeless_mbp | it's too dark to see much fog :) | 22:45 |
| Jaffa | timeless_mbp: Dunno, I thought PR1.1 did more of it in | 22:46 |
| dotblank | mounting /dev/loop0 on /home/user/MyDocs/SC1S/fifo/ failed: Invalid argument | 22:47 |
| dotblank | hmm why is that... | 22:47 |
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| dotblank | ah forgot the type | 22:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | dotblank: you're trying to use a fat file system as a target for unix operations? | 22:50 |
| dotblank | not quite | 22:51 |
| dotblank | I got around it by mounting a 1mb ext3 in the MyDocs directory with a symlink to root | 22:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | evil users are …. evil | 22:52 |
| * SpeedEvil nods. | 22:52 | |
| SpeedEvil | Also - you don';t want a symlink to root | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | but to /home/opt/ or wherever | 22:53 |
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| dotblank | hmm | 22:55 |
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| dotblank | file manager crashes (freezes) when trying to access the folder that contains the mountpoint to the 1mb ext2 | 22:55 |
| tripzero | how do i get autocomplete to "complete" using the osk? | 22:56 |
| SpeedEvil | tripzero: tap the displayed word | 22:56 |
| SpeedEvil | tripzero: on the text | 22:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | On a related matter, can the osk do arrows? | 22:56 |
| SpeedEvil | that is direciton rrows, not >< | 22:56 |
| SpeedEvil | direction | 22:56 |
| tripzero | doesn't look like it | 22:56 |
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| tripzero | w00t, tapping word success! | 22:57 |
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| mece | Interesting. UAE compiles on arm but not on x86 | 22:57 |
| callkalpa | do you respond to all the GSoC applications or just select the most suitable one and drop the others? | 22:57 |
| * noobmonk3y_ will bbl - beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer time | 22:58 | |
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| SpeedEvil | I recall info on googles pages on it | 23:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I forget the process | 23:00 |
| SpeedEvil | maybe google it. | 23:00 |
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| dotblank | ah I forgot to mount it nosuid | 23:00 |
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| w00t_ | X-Fade: ping | 23:01 |
| X-Fade | w00t_: pong | 23:02 |
| dotblank | HAHAHA it WORKS!! | 23:02 |
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| w00t_ | X-Fade: not sure if you're the right person to ping, but just wondering if you got my builder invite request a short while ago.. I got a blank page when submitting it | 23:03 |
| w00t_ | so dunno if I should do it again or not :P | 23:03 |
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| * MohammadAG pings w00t_ | 23:04 | |
| * w00t_ pongs | 23:04 | |
| MohammadAG | PM :) | 23:04 |
| * X-Fade clicks on invite for w00t | 23:04 | |
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| w00t_ | ah, it worked? | 23:04 |
| w00t_ | X-Fade: thanks :) | 23:05 |
| X-Fade | w00t_: To lazy to look at my email :) | 23:05 |
| X-Fade | w00t_: Will let you know tomorrow, but the invite should be in your inbox. | 23:06 |
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| w00t_ | X-Fade: thanks anyhow :) | 23:07 |
| X-Fade | np | 23:07 |
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| dotblank | does the sort command in linux not have the option for random? | 23:13 |
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| dotblank | rather for busybox on the n900 | 23:15 |
| andre__ | randomsort? | 23:15 |
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| dotblank | yea.. Is that a command | 23:15 |
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| andre__ | I wouldn't call random a sort. | 23:18 |
| E0x | indeed | 23:18 |
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| dotblank | well I need to randomly sort output from a find command | 23:18 |
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| ptl_demands_PR12 | dotblank: use 'shuf' in the shell | 23:21 |
| ptl_demands_PR12 | dotblank: find ... | shuf | 23:22 |
| dotblank | ptl_demands_PR12, You are awesome | 23:22 |
| tripzero | lol | 23:22 |
| shvedsky | ptl_demands_PR12: wow, you really are! | 23:22 |
| dotblank | crap shuf doesn't exist | 23:23 |
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| dotblank | hmm there is a package with that tool i think | 23:23 |
| dotblank | binutils | 23:23 |
| dotblank | I believe | 23:23 |
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| dotblank | hmm that command doesn't exist | 23:25 |
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| shvedsky | on desktop linux it exists | 23:26 |
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| dotblank | yea | 23:28 |
| * MohammadAG wonders if it's justified to use non-free till PR1.2 is released | 23:28 | |
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| joker_89 | hi | 23:41 |
| joker_89 | anyone knows the syncml concepts? | 23:41 |
| joker_89 | when an item is deleted from the db , how syncml knows that is a deleted item? | 23:42 |
| joker_89 | becuase the database dont have the item and there isn't any mark that this item was deleted | 23:42 |
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| MohammadAG | ~ping | 23:46 |
| infobot | ~pong | 23:46 |
| javispedro | uuh: http://wiki.maemo.org/Overclocking | 23:46 |
| * MohammadAG thinks w00t_ is dead | 23:46 | |
| MohammadAG | (dead as in IRC-dead) | 23:47 |
| javispedro | no need to clarify | 23:47 |
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| w00t_ | :P | 23:47 |
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| _llll_ | haha "echo $((`cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq`/1000)) MHz | 23:47 |
| _llll_ | " | 23:47 |
| _llll_ | wow, just wow | 23:47 |
| _llll_ | i'd trust whoever wrote that to make sensible recomendations on my hardware | 23:48 |
| frals | ~curse t.m.o | 23:49 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, t.m.o ! | 23:49 |
| frals | great feature, someone can send me a PM, but im not allowed to reply to it >_< | 23:49 |
| javispedro | clearly the sender is too important to be replied to. | 23:49 |
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| javispedro | pray. | 23:50 |
| frals | 0-poster :< | 23:50 |
| javispedro | ah, a noob god. | 23:50 |
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| juliank | Is there a reason why the libraries and programs on the rootfs do not match their md5sums (e.g. usr/lib/libbz2.so.1.0.5: FAILED)? | 23:58 |
| javispedro | prelink? | 23:59 |
| javispedro | (wild guess) | 23:59 |
| Arkenoi | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJpEuMidcSU&feature=player_embedded haha | 23:59 |
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