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| L0NELY-TR0LL | hello))) | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
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| L0NELY-TR0LL | oh! my eyes! i forget my eyes! | 00:06 |
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| L0NELY-TR0LL | here it is : | 00:06 |
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| L0NELY-TR0LL | xe2000 Do you use Windows 2000? | 00:07 |
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| L0NELY-TR0LL | Flyser Hello! What mean your nickname? | 00:07 |
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| L0NELY-TR0LL | Elie Hello! | 00:08 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | i am going to kill who ever implemented the n900 power management on wifi. | 00:11 |
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| javispedro | not your wifi ap manufacturer? | 00:11 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | maybe them as well. | 00:15 |
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| xe2000 | Hi i'm looking for a single conversation time count, on my n900. But i cant finde this. Can anybody help me? | 00:29 |
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| xe2000 | similar of S60 | 00:29 |
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| crashanddie | xe2000: conversation time count? | 00:30 |
| SpeedEvil | conversation time count? | 00:30 |
| crashanddie | ~ping | 00:30 |
| infobot | ~pong | 00:30 |
| xe2000 | call log and sms protocol | 00:30 |
| crashanddie | xe2000: in case you didn't understand it from two people questioning the most fundamental part of your initial message: ELABORATE | 00:31 |
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| * ptl waiting for xe2000 to elaborate, he's curious | 00:33 | |
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| xe2000 | i mean for example http://www.connect.de/themen_spezial/28691587_156d3dd27e.jpg | 00:34 |
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| bleeter | well, I'm confused | 00:35 |
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| ptl | me too | 00:35 |
| ptl | I can't see the 'time' in this 'time counter' | 00:35 |
| iryge | hey stskeeps, still up? | 00:35 |
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| sp3000 | timeless_mbp: http://tinyurl.com/yd5vagf there's totally like people on it think there may be an app for that, though I'm not wure if it worked out that well the last time I tried | 00:35 |
| sp3000 | the time is hidden in the next level | 00:35 |
| xe2000 | hmm sorry i cant find a pic | 00:35 |
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| sp3000 | er, s/timeless_mbp: http://tinyurl.com/yd5vagf there's totally like people on it/I/ | 00:36 |
| sp3000 | the keys are like right next to each other | 00:36 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 00:38 |
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| crashanddie | xe2000: how about you try to properly explain what you're after | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, the 'screenshot' is exactly meaningless to me | 00:46 |
| lcuk | some phones used ot have a total talk time screen | 00:46 |
| crashanddie | and then some | 00:46 |
| lcuk | time spent calling out | 00:46 |
| lcuk | time spent inbound calls | 00:46 |
| lcuk | my o2 ice had it | 00:46 |
| lcuk | its an old feature | 00:46 |
| lcuk | hes given shitty screenshot but i know the metric hes thinking of i think | 00:47 |
| xe2000 | lcuk, yes that it | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: xe2000: phome -menu -timer ? | 00:48 |
| xe2000 | a list of particular calls | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | err what? | 00:49 |
| lcuk | xe2000, http://www.wirelessinfo.com/images/upload/Image/reviews/images/lg/choclate/screens/call-history-2.jpg | 00:50 |
| SpeedEvil | anyone had bt keyb working? | 00:50 |
| lcuk | used to be really important when you had 60 minute calltime plans | 00:51 |
| Lumpio- | ...I prefer to get a plan where I don't need to worry about minutes or whatnot if I ever need to make a call (which I rarely do) | 00:51 |
| odin_ | !seen Venomrush | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: xe2000: phone ->menu ->timer ?!? | 00:51 |
| lcuk | ~seen odin_ | 00:51 |
| infobot | odin_ is currently on #maemo (22h 40m 43s) #tomcat (22h 40m 43s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 15s, last said: '!seen Venomrush'. | 00:51 |
| odin_ | ~seen Venomrush | 00:52 |
| infobot | venomrush <~opera@188-221-102-245.zone12.bethere.co.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 15d 23h 50m 39s ago, saying: 'to select the other mode'. | 00:52 |
| SpeedEvil | I edited /etc/.../main.conf - and removed input from excluded plugons. | 00:52 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, i dont use it but prolly lol | 00:52 |
| lcuk | ye | 00:52 |
| lcuk | :D | 00:52 |
| odin_ | who is this Venomrush, and is he doing something considered useful in the community my the majority of the community? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7919 | 00:52 |
| povbot | Bug 7919: Add to Contacts (from POP3/Inbox reading mail) offers to add myself | 00:52 |
| xe2000 | DocScrutinizer, not the cout of all calls | 00:52 |
| * lcuk must root around his menus more | 00:52 | |
| DocScrutinizer | xe2000: ??? | 00:53 |
| SpeedEvil | It says paired, and pressing a key makes the data light on keyb flash - bu nothing... /dev/input/* does not seem to appear | 00:53 |
| xe2000 | http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3883/327883585screen.jpg a call log with a single cont of every call | 00:53 |
| * lcuk never knew the timers screen existed :) | 00:53 | |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, yes. duration of particular calls missing in call history | 00:53 |
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| xe2000 | DocScrutinizer, yes | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | xe2000: though all your screenshots aren't to the point | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | as they miss any call duration of particular calls as well | 00:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also - bt icon goes blue when I press... | 00:55 |
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| xe2000 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/extcalllog/ ist fine, but i can't see: Call DATETIME, DURATION, AMOUNT | 00:57 |
| SpeedEvil | ping the maker? | 00:57 |
| * SpeedEvil tries the last resort of fools, and reboots. | 00:57 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | xe2000: heh, I was about to find that one right ATM. you found it :-) | 00:58 |
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| xe2000 | :-) | 01:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | meh. | 01:01 |
| * SpeedEvil looks at his keyboard. | 01:01 | |
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| joker_891 | anyone knows why this goes directly to my formEdit | 01:02 |
| joker_891 | appuifw.app.body = listbox = appuifw.Listbox(ls) | 01:02 |
| joker_891 | appuifw.app.menu = [(u"Editar",self.formEditar(resultat[listbox.current()]))] | 01:02 |
| joker_891 | e32.ao_yield() | 01:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | xe2000: possibly the system phonelog doesn't keep this info :-/ | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | it at least broadcasts dbus events which could be caught in realtime | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | my idea | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | en passant I found dbus-addressbook-bindings :-) | 01:06 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if he can find the energy to work out why bt keyb not working. | 01:06 | |
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| RobbieAB | Hi, I have just got an N900, and am wondering what I need to do to get it working as a PAN access point. I've tried google with no success, has anyone done this or got any pointers? | 01:40 |
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| ptl | Shapeshifter: I am just trying your alarmed application. Is there a wiki page with alarmed scripts and events, like there is for fcron? | 01:41 |
| ptl | RobbieAB: joikuspot and maemo hotspot. Search them on talk.maemo.org | 01:42 |
| RobbieAB | joikuspot is WiFi isn't it? | 01:43 |
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| javispedro | yeah, for PAN you're on your own mostly | 01:43 |
| RobbieAB | That's sort of what I expected. | 01:43 |
| javispedro | try to do it same way you'd do it on a gnu/linux desktop, and if nothing works, complain | 01:44 |
| RobbieAB | Unfortunately, gnome/blueman aren't there :D | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG | Created a new project, aiming to get an app into at least extras | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG | extras-devel* | 01:44 |
| RobbieAB | But yeah, I can take that route. Work out what packages I need, and go down that route. :) | 01:45 |
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| RobbieAB | One of the joys of having started with Gentoo... Common sense doesn't get in the way. :) | 01:45 |
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| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48336 :/ | 01:46 |
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| ptl | MohammadAG: LOL | 01:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RobbieAB: http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles#PAN | 01:49 |
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| ptl | RobbieAB: Sorry, robbie, I didn't know what you were talking about! | 01:51 |
| RobbieAB | DocScrutinizer: Thanks, I found that, but it doesn't seem to be enough to get a PAN Access Point working, sadly. I suspect the N900 is missing other pieces of infrastructure. | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 01:51 |
| RobbieAB | ptl: It's ok, that just means I need to learn how to ask better questions. | 01:52 |
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| RobbieAB | If JoikuSpot works, it may just be that I need to look at what they are using. :D | 01:52 |
| RobbieAB | i.e. dhcp servers and the like. | 01:53 |
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| RobbieAB | I can get a bnep device on the laptop, but it doesn't seem to be getting an IP address, which is why I suspect dhcp. | 01:54 |
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| RobbieAB | Anyway, thank you all, you have been very helpful, and at least I know I'm not missing something obvious. :) | 01:55 |
| red | haha MohammadAG :) | 01:56 |
| RobbieAB | I will start pursuing this seriously this weekend :) | 01:56 |
| ptl | joikuspot does something very intriguing | 01:57 |
| ptl | masquerade through userspace | 01:57 |
| ptl | I don't have any idea how it does it. | 01:57 |
| RobbieAB | Well, ideally, I would want to do the routing in the kernel, as it would be faster. | 01:58 |
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| RobbieAB | But it's not critical, getting it working is more important :) | 01:58 |
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| ptl | it's just that the stock kernel does not have masquerading compiled in | 01:59 |
| ptl | so it can not be enabled by echoing into /proc | 01:59 |
| RobbieAB | Oh, yuck. | 01:59 |
| ptl | *the stock N900 kernel | 01:59 |
| RobbieAB | Well, I'm not *quite* confident enough to try and break the kernel just yet. | 02:00 |
| ptl | qole and some friends found a way to do NAT in userspace too, but it seems it is really slow and unstable yet | 02:00 |
| ptl | they use something called vde2 | 02:00 |
| RobbieAB | (nod) | 02:00 |
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| ptl | I didn't even quite understood what vde2 is. | 02:01 |
| ptl | much less how it works | 02:01 |
| RobbieAB | Well, I will just have to play around, get something working, and than look at how to improve it. | 02:01 |
| ptl | good luck! | 02:01 |
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| RobbieAB | I have a couple of weeks off work... | 02:02 |
| RobbieAB | And am motivated. | 02:02 |
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| RobbieAB | €470 for a toy, and if I can't get it working nicely as a really easy 3G modem for the laptop... | 02:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe it's a bit lame to ask, but can anybody please explain to me where to learn about the dbus methods offered by https://garage.maemo.org/projects/contactinfos/ pkg | 02:17 |
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| RobbieAB | Read the code? (Icky way, I know...) | 02:19 |
| RobbieAB | Also, is that project still alive? That page seems kinda out of date | 02:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or http://maemo.org/packages/view/contactinfos/ to be more up to date | 02:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I just can't believe the author of that package hasn't included any kind of 'api' documentation - but I fail to spot anything | 02:23 |
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| TheNewAndy | hi, I'm trying to compile pulseaudio (I'm wanting the ladspa plugin) | 02:24 |
| TheNewAndy | I did an apt-get build-dep pulseaudio and an apt-get source pulseaudio | 02:24 |
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| TheNewAndy | but when I go to autogen it, it tells me I need a more recent version of autoconf | 02:24 |
| TheNewAndy | (version 2.6.something). | 02:25 |
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| TheNewAndy | I tried installing it the other night, but the sb_autoconf_wrapper prevents it from being run | 02:26 |
| TheNewAndy | is there a clean way to get this to work? | 02:26 |
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| javispedro | I wouldn't start a maemo journey by rebuilding pulseaudio.. | 02:26 |
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| javispedro | TheNewAndy: also, install package pulseaudio-module-extra | 02:28 |
| javispedro | TheAppleMan: it containts ladspa-sink at least | 02:28 |
| TheNewAndy | oh awesome, that is exactly what I wanted :) | 02:28 |
| eut | is there a way i can download an app on my desktop and install it on my tablet via usb? | 02:28 |
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| Corsac | hmhm, Jennifer Granick at cansecwest is talking about TI calculators private keys distribution, legal issues and stuff | 02:48 |
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| ml-mobile | heh | 02:58 |
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| Tobarja | this is twice today that my n810 has gotten overwhelmed and rebooted itself. is that normal? | 03:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Tobarja: mine reboots at random | 03:47 |
| Tobarja | DocScrutinizer thanks... you've vindicated my wife... :-/ | 03:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | sometimes 5 times a day, sometines none in 50 days | 03:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | i did what? sorry got no webster at hand, and my English is poor, but I'm quite sure I did nothing to your wife | 03:49 |
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| Tobarja | ha... she was playing with it and it freaked out, stopped responding. when you said yours reboots at random you cleared her of wrongdoing | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 03:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dunno. I got a wacky charger receptacle, and sometimes I got the idea this is related somehow. But then again I wasn't able to trigger reboots by crazy charger plug action. Anyway this wasn't like that from the beginning, rather it started maybe a year ago, maybe 18 months | 03:57 |
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| Ken-Young | Within scratchbox, gdb always segfaults for me, if I pass it a core file to analyze. Does anyone know what might be causing that? | 04:04 |
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| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, proved her right. Or not wrong. | 04:05 |
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| ponyofde1th | hi, im trying to wipe my nokia n900 before i send it back for an RMA do i flash first with "RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8.002_PR_COMBINED_002_ARM.bin" then with "RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin" ? | 04:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sounds about right | 04:17 |
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| leandroal | I'm trying to make a svn up and the svn is return the following: SSL handshake failed: Connection reset by peer (https://vcs.maemo.org). What is going on? | 04:26 |
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| dotblank | Is there a module-ladspa-sink built for PA on the n900 | 05:06 |
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| dotblank | it shows the .so file in scratch box | 05:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [2010-03-26 01:28:06] <javispedro> TheNewAndy: also, install package pulseaudio-module-extra | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-03-26 01:28:15] <javispedro> TheAppleMan: it containts ladspa-sink at least | 05:56 |
| TheNewAndy | (poor The AppleMan getting spammed by tab completion :)) | 05:57 |
| * DocScrutinizer is wondering what strange TV-show might have created interest in ladspa | 05:57 | |
| TheNewAndy | javispedro and I are now chatting in #maemo :) | 05:57 |
| TheNewAndy | I'm interested because I'm trying to do a demo of some audio processing at work, and ladspa+pulse is the biggest bang for buck | 05:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, what? | 05:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wasn't even aware there's a ladspa plugin for friggin PA. For ALSA there's been one since ages | 06:00 |
| TheNewAndy | it is a bit limited (single channel only, can't adjust parameters on the fly) | 06:00 |
| TheNewAndy | but it is great for my purposes (hacking up a demo on multiple platforms really quickly) | 06:01 |
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| LiraNuna | when my N900 receives a call and plays a custom ringtone, there is a pause when it's finished | 07:11 |
| LiraNuna | how can I make it loop without the pause? | 07:11 |
| crashanddie | Pray Baahl and slit the troath of a 12 year old elf virgin | 07:13 |
| jaska | bhaaaaaal | 07:13 |
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| ponyofde1th | hi, how do i mount the hdsd card in linux seems when i enter usb storage mode i only see the internal eMMC | 07:24 |
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| MiXu- | afaik it should mount automatically unless something in the phone is using the mmc all the time | 07:28 |
| MiXu- | in which case it will complain "MMC is in use" or something like that when you plug it in | 07:29 |
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| acidjazz | just launched my 2nd game http://apps.facebook.com/luckyjackpot/ | 07:45 |
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| crashanddie_ | the next person who promotes his facebook app in here gets banned for life | 07:46 |
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| Stskeeps | work mornings are not the time for my laptop to start running a forced fsck. | 08:10 |
| Stskeeps | when will linux have ZFS. | 08:10 |
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| crashanddie_ | Stskeeps: the same year as the year of the Linux desktop! | 08:12 |
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| simula | heh | 08:13 |
| * simula is happy with linux in his pocket | 08:13 | |
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| Stskeeps | simula: pocket is fine, it doesn't do forced fscks :P | 08:18 |
| simula | did you pull the power plug stskeeps? what forced fsck? | 08:19 |
| Stskeeps | simula: 41 times without a check | 08:20 |
| simula | ahhhh | 08:21 |
| Stskeeps | yes, i know i can adjust that | 08:21 |
| Stskeeps | but no, i always shut down nicely | 08:21 |
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| * RST38h watches the "Screen Colours" thread on tmo. Some people really can't take no for an answer... | 08:45 | |
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| ColdFyre | link? | 08:48 |
| Jaffa | Nooooo... don't look | 08:48 |
| RST38h | The stupidity level there rises to previously unknown heights | 08:48 |
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| * Jaffa hasn't had the good fortune to read that thread. | 08:49 | |
| ColdFyre | i think i've already seen the stupidest people alive, can't be that bad.. | 08:50 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Let us just say they are accusing javispedro of lying "because nokia usa site claims n900 is 16m colors" | 08:50 |
| Jaffa | Oh dear. | 08:50 |
| RST38h | And the nokia usa site obviously cannot be wrong :) | 08:50 |
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| Jaffa | Marketing's *always* 100% accurate | 08:51 |
| ColdFyre | ahh share the link... | 08:51 |
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| ColdFyre | Screen Colours / Color Depth: 16 million or 65K? <--- that one? | 08:52 |
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| ColdFyre | after seeing page 1, that must be it | 08:53 |
| Rabidus | 17M; | 08:54 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: So is Wikipedia, although evil javispedro has EDITED it after the fact! Can you believe? | 08:54 |
| RST38h | The truth was out there and he killed it! Pure horror. | 08:55 |
| RST38h | ==> work | 08:55 |
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| Jaffa | Oh dear. | 08:57 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: i'm actually not sure if it's a 24bit screen or not | 09:04 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, framebuffer is 16, yes, but there can be reasons for that | 09:04 |
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| ColdFyre | i am positive it's 24 bit | 09:04 |
| ColdFyre | </troll> | 09:05 |
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| AdmiralSausage | hi! if I flash a fiasco image but not the mmc, what happens to all my apps in /opt? | 09:41 |
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| ruskie | http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Fusion-Garage-JooJoo/ <-- hmm | 09:46 |
| ruskie | AdmiralSausage, those are in /opt which is a symlink to /home which is on the mmc iirc | 09:46 |
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| AdmiralSausage | so from what I understand, the apps will remain on the mmc but won't appear to be installed because there is no symlink to them from /usr/share, and they aren't in the apt db. correct? | 09:48 |
| ruskie | iirc yes | 09:48 |
| AdmiralSausage | does that cause probs when you want to reinstall them? | 09:49 |
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| yigal | why would that cause problems? | 09:49 |
| yigal | if they are binaries just upgrade, and use the new binary? | 09:50 |
| AdmiralSausage | yigal: because the files will already be there when apt tries to install them? | 09:50 |
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| yigal | if they aren't in the apt db then what's to worry apt about? | 09:51 |
| yigal | if the old stuff works and then the new stuff also works then, no harm no foul? | 09:52 |
| yigal | just applying basic logic, but I've probably missed something very important | 09:53 |
| AdmiralSausage | so if apt is installing something for the first time, and there are already files in the place it wants to write them, it overwrites them? that is fine but not obvious to me | 09:53 |
| yigal | yes, that is exactly what apt does | 09:55 |
| yigal | as far as I understand, which isn't very much | 09:55 |
| AdmiralSausage | excellent, that's all the assurance I needed. off to flash then - thanks a lot | 09:57 |
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| yigal | wow that's not very much assurance, but hey glad I could be there for the dude | 09:58 |
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| yigal | gnu chess is so hard I can barely beat its easy game :( | 10:01 |
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| Shapeshifter | has someone found out how to make VGBA fullscreen? | 10:02 |
| Stskeeps | yigal: the on device one? | 10:02 |
| yigal | ah socializing by myself again | 10:02 |
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| * Stskeeps has heard many stories about that chess game | 10:02 | |
| Shapeshifter | ptl: there's no wiki page but the first post in the forum thread contains some info, and for the CLI, alarmed.py -h has some info and examples | 10:04 |
| yigal | Stskeeps: no just Ubuntu, I use eboard on my n800 to play internet chess, just spraying words | 10:05 |
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| Unksi | hmm, my n900 does not indicate if it has low power... is there a way to make it indicate it? | 10:07 |
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| yigal | man I'm almost to the point where I'm willing to get the n900 despite it being "fat", smaller screen, and not as punchy of a cpu as I would want, the fact that it can run the Gimp, LaTeX, GCC, and that it has a resistive screen are almost enough, but not quite for me to make the plunge | 10:10 |
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| d14 | :D | 10:13 |
| d14 | ah, wrong window x) | 10:13 |
| yigal | the fact that some next gen. smart phones will undoubtedly have e-ink/Pixel Qi like screens allowing for about a full day, 24hours, of video usage before recharge, and of course absolutely perfect to read outside, that is the only thing holding me back | 10:13 |
| d14 | morning o/ | 10:13 |
| corecode_ | do we have some sort of application ranking? like vim has for the scripts? | 10:13 |
| yigal | corecode_: nice analogy | 10:14 |
| corecode_ | you know, the script karma | 10:14 |
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| yigal | just the fact that you through in vim makes you A+ ok with me | 10:15 |
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| corecode_ | that would help me find certain things i a) didn't search for or b) searched for but didn't find | 10:15 |
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| yigal | what about just http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ ? | 10:16 |
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| yigal | it at least gives what is being downloaded, but you're right more relavent statistics would be good | 10:17 |
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| yigal | I will never forget how Android has wronged me | 10:18 |
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| yigal | oh ya gnu chess I destroyed you in an easy match | 10:20 |
| yigal | ha | 10:20 |
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| yigal | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=582909#post582909 this is so reasonable | 10:24 |
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| yigal | I hope I haven't been \ignored by everyone my apologies for being so garrulous | 10:28 |
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| corecode_ | yigal: the downloads doesn't include the maemo apt repos, does it? | 10:30 |
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| yigal | corecode_: dude, I'm prehistoric with my n800, as far as I remember it used to? | 10:32 |
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| corecode_ | possibly | 10:35 |
| corecode_ | hm | 10:35 |
| corecode_ | but downloads != magical ratings | 10:36 |
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| yigal | corecode_: true dat | 10:37 |
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| Trizt | Could someone tell me a bit about the gps, as it don't seem to work with in maep and ovi maps it seems to always only be calibrating is a-gps is disabled, when a-gps is enabled the location is off with ~2km and showing that I'm out in the sea and the long/lat don't change when moving. Running HealthCare I get long/lat that change by moving. | 10:39 |
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| Lynoure | What's your favourite password manager for N900? | 10:42 |
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| crashanddie | my head | 10:43 |
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| Lynoure | crashanddie: how did you get it running in the device? =) | 10:44 |
| crashanddie | compiles natively | 10:45 |
| Lynoure | But the upload... | 10:45 |
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| Lynoure | My memory is too poor for ~100 different passwords that do not follow the same pattern, so encrypted manager would be nice. And there are many, I just have trouble choosing before I input a slew of data | 10:46 |
| corecode_ | i just copied my passwords from firefox | 10:46 |
| Lynoure | corecode_: to what? | 10:47 |
| corecode_ | to microb | 10:47 |
| corecode_ | from desktop to n900 | 10:47 |
| Lynoure | Not just browser passwords. | 10:47 |
| corecode_ | ah there are other passwords? :) | 10:47 |
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| Lynoure | corecode_: for recovering sysadmins, yes, long and random ones. | 10:49 |
| corecode_ | ah | 10:49 |
| corecode_ | i don't use passwords on ssh anymore | 10:49 |
| corecode_ | and i don't use passwords for physical login | 10:49 |
| corecode_ | in other words, i'm trying to get rid of passwords | 10:50 |
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| Khertan | Hi ! | 10:50 |
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| Stskeeps | lo Khertan | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | how's it going? | 10:51 |
| Khertan | lo Stskeeps | 10:51 |
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| Khertan | bit tired ... too much things to do work | 10:51 |
| Khertan | bit tired ... too much things to do at work | 10:51 |
| Lynoure | corecode_: I'd do too, if there was a way that suited my needs. But not yet. | 10:51 |
| Khertan | Stskeeps: and you ? | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: same.. got a deadline coming up, testing, hacking, etc | 10:51 |
| corecode_ | mm deadlines | 10:52 |
| Khertan | the deadline is pass from one month here ... and i m just starting the development | 10:52 |
| Khertan | :) | 10:52 |
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| Khertan | http://picasaweb.google.fr/lh/photo/wh0g6w_jXB-IhyhmoQtuLQ?authkey=Gv1sRgCLiNy4OGwo7nZQ&feat=directlink <- can you see this picture ? (i'm not sure that it s available for everyone) | 10:54 |
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| jjo | Khertan: I can | 10:55 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:55 |
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| Khertan | jjo: thx | 10:55 |
| Khertan | morning jaffa | 10:55 |
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| * noobmonk3y waves | 11:41 | |
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| * ShadowJK finda a video that crashes the dsp | 11:46 | |
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| ptl | been following the porn thread on talk.maemo.org, heh? | 11:50 |
| gouverneur | Lynoure: there is only one passwordsafe ui isnt it? | 11:50 |
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| ShadowJK | I wonder how to report such crashes :-) | 11:51 |
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| ShadowJK | it consistently crashes at about 10 minutes in | 11:51 |
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| X-Fade | ShadowJK: Is the video freely available on the web? | 11:53 |
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| ShadowJK | sortof, youtube | 11:53 |
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| X-Fade | ShadowJK: Are you playing it through flash then? | 11:53 |
| ShadowJK | no | 11:53 |
| derf | I mean, worse comes to worst, you could use https://forms.cert.org/VulReport/ | 11:54 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: Then the one on youtube is not the file you are playing? :) | 11:54 |
| ShadowJK | gpodder can subscribe to youtube channels and download the 480p h264 baseline version | 11:54 |
| X-Fade | Ah. | 11:54 |
| derf | That ought to get some attention, at least. | 11:54 |
| X-Fade | Well, if you can describe what needs to be done to reproduce the bug every time. | 11:54 |
| X-Fade | Then it would be appreciated, I'm sure. | 11:55 |
| ShadowJK | But whether youtube-dl and similar get the same file I dunno.. | 11:55 |
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| X-Fade | ShadowJK: Doesn't matter. If you say it can be downloaded through gpodder an describe all steps, it should be fine. | 11:55 |
| ShadowJK | Well gpodder only sees new files that's in the RSS | 11:56 |
| ShadowJK | so it's too late :) | 11:56 |
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| ShadowJK | I could try MPlayer's sample archive on it I guess :) | 11:57 |
| ShadowJK | and the fuzzer | 11:58 |
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| RST38h | moo wazd | 12:16 |
| wazd | RST38h: heya :) | 12:17 |
| wazd | RST38h: thank god I'm alive :D | 12:17 |
| * noobmonk3y w00t's | 12:17 | |
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| RST38h | wazd: partied a littl ebit too much yesterday? =) | 12:18 |
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| wazd | RST38h: well, actually no, but was tired like hell :) | 12:18 |
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| wazd | RST38h: crossed moscow like 3 times :) | 12:18 |
| RST38h | 2nd act today | 12:18 |
| RST38h | wazd: On foot? =) | 12:18 |
| wazd | RST38h: :D | 12:18 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I'm gonna join you today, but a bit later | 12:20 |
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| wazd | RST38h: Vlad is leaving @ 7PM | 12:20 |
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| jatt | hi, could someone explain me briefly what is kinetic scrolling? I bought a nokia n900 and I'm having a hard time scrolling the desktop or in the browser. | 12:28 |
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| nidO | kinetic scrolling = scroll down something really fast then let go and it keeps scrolling for a while | 12:28 |
| jatt | it works, but it seems I don't have enough practice | 12:28 |
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| jatt | I see | 12:28 |
| nidO | non kinetic scrolling = it just stops as soon as you let go | 12:28 |
| jatt | could be that my n900 is using no kinetic scrolling? Yesterday I downloaded a maemo upgrade (maemo 5) from February this year I think. | 12:29 |
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| ptl | Hmm | 12:30 |
| ptl | someone just hacked Sygic N900 to use maps from the symbian versions | 12:30 |
| jatt | but before the upgrade it was the same | 12:30 |
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| noobmonk3y | i find kinectic for me works better with the stylus as i have fat thumbs :D | 12:32 |
| ptl | I find everything for me works better with the stylus because my screen gets dirty with fingers...! | 12:37 |
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| Lynoure | gouverneur: there is at least Keeppass, pysafe, pyring, password safe | 12:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | I ordered a pack of 10 screen protectors. | 12:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | 'blocks' does _bad_ things to your protector. | 12:38 |
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| ptl | Yes, I use a screen protector from PDAir, but it costs a lot of money, US$ 12 | 12:38 |
| ptl | (for a screen protector) | 12:39 |
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| ptl | nevertheless it's very good and clear | 12:39 |
| SpeedEvil | $3 for 10 | 12:39 |
| SpeedEvil | inc free ship | 12:39 |
| SpeedEvil | ebay++ | 12:39 |
| ptl | not the same quality, I suppose | 12:39 |
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| noobmonk3y | i had one and hated it | 12:40 |
| noobmonk3y | ripped it off after a week | 12:40 |
| SpeedEvil | maybe not. I question if the $12 one would not scratch with sand + pointer tho | 12:40 |
| nidO | i dont have a protector on mine | 12:40 |
| ptl | when I take it off the N900, it's practically invisible | 12:40 |
| noobmonk3y | was too rubbery and felt odd when i used it | 12:40 |
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| noobmonk3y | nidO: me neither now...... | 12:40 |
| nidO | im happy having a decent looking + feeling screen, and being careful | 12:41 |
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| jatt | sooner or later it will scratch :( | 12:41 |
| ptl | SpeedEvil: I don't know, I had some screen protectors on my previous phone and this one is clearly different. Besides being very very very very very very very clear, it adheres without any bubbles to the N900 surface and feels really good to the touch, so I don't fear using my fingers on it anymore | 12:42 |
| jatt | like everything... glasses, clocks, etc. | 12:42 |
| jatt | do you have a link to those screen protectors? | 12:42 |
| gouverneur | Lynoure: ok now i get what you mean | 12:42 |
| nidO | more people need to start using gorilla glass | 12:42 |
| ptl | I'd buy another one anyday | 12:42 |
| SpeedEvil | nigella for expample, I have over 200 scratches where the blocks come. | 12:42 |
| SpeedEvil | nidO, | 12:42 |
| nidO | but tbh if i can get through a year without too badly damaging the screen, ill just replace it | 12:42 |
| gouverneur | nidO: I managed to scratch it with latex | 12:42 |
| ptl | jatt: pdair.com is where I bought my protector, an expensive one... screen clear protector or something like that is its name | 12:42 |
| Lynoure | gouverneur: is Password Safe the one you like? | 12:43 |
| gouverneur | nidO: you can barely see the scratch, in normal conditions not visible | 12:43 |
| ptl | jatt: but on ebay you buy then a dime a dozen | 12:43 |
| nidO | gouverneur whats that, the n900's screen? | 12:43 |
| gouverneur | Lynoure: I use password safe as i just wanted a tool to crypt passwords and have a good overview if needed | 12:44 |
| gouverneur | nidO: yep | 12:44 |
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| lcuk | tracy is singing loudly with her ipod in, is there a way i can remotely disable it? | 12:44 |
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| ptl | what about pysafe and keepassx? | 12:44 |
| nidO | yeah microscratches like that wont really bother me, i've gotten through 2 months so far without any scratches of any kind whatsoever so even a few tiny almost impossible to see ones wont bother me | 12:44 |
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| nidO | at this rate I should have no problem getting through a year with the screen still in reasonably decent condition, then id rather just replace it with a new one than suffer a screen protector the whole time | 12:45 |
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| timeless | hey tybollt | 12:46 |
| * SpeedEvil makes a pointer. | 12:46 | |
| timeless | the plane arrived @arn 10mins before departing hel | 12:46 |
| ptl | suffer a screen protector? | 12:46 |
| timeless | but couldn't reach the gate for 10mins | 12:46 |
| SpeedEvil | from hedgeprunings. | 12:47 |
| ptl | mine goes really well | 12:47 |
| timeless | and then the idiotic arlanda express rejected my visa card | 12:47 |
| timeless | the bank machine offers to speak english but doesn't say which button is "enter" or "backspace" | 12:47 |
| timeless | and the ticket machine rejected my third 100 sek bill | 12:48 |
| timeless | so i had to break it at the currency exchange | 12:48 |
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| timeless | but now i'm waiting for the express to depart :) | 12:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | :) | 12:48 |
| jatt | will meego run on my n900? or it won't be supported? | 12:49 |
| MiXu- | jatt: no one knows | 12:49 |
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| * timeless is trying to remember how to use meego.com to find user profiles | 12:49 | |
| jatt | I see | 12:49 |
| timeless | jatt: totally unannounced | 12:49 |
| fgs_ | lcuk: a gunshot should do the trick | 12:49 |
| timeless | but each time someone asks, i'm killing a fly | 12:49 |
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| lcuk | fgs_, :( | 12:50 |
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| jatt | hehe | 12:50 |
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| gouverneur | jatt: we do not know what meego looks like yet | 12:54 |
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| ptl | when will we have talk.meego.com ? | 12:54 |
| Anss| | jatt, it should work. | 12:55 |
| timeless | when someone wants more headaches | 12:55 |
| Anss| | afaik | 12:55 |
| gouverneur | ptl: afaik its still on testing and as long as the design topics arent closed it wont go public I guess | 12:55 |
| timeless | isn't one headache enought? | 12:55 |
| timeless | s/ht/h/ | 12:55 |
| infobot | timeless meant: isn't one headache enough? | 12:55 |
| gouverneur | timeless: true | 12:55 |
| timeless | technically your question belongs in #meego ;) | 12:56 |
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| gouverneur | am I looking at the wrong page or didn't they fix the auto-connect issues with EAP? | 12:58 |
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| * timeless drops gprs to save money. later all | 12:59 | |
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| ccooke | Morning, all | 13:02 |
| ptl | morning! | 13:02 |
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| karlosos | hey guys | 13:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | odd. anyone else seen display corruption? | 13:09 |
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| RST38h | yes | 13:10 |
| SpeedEvil | the icons on the app launcher some are broken | 13:10 |
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| RST38h | yes. | 13:10 |
| ptl | display corruption? broken icons? Under what circumstantes? | 13:11 |
| ptl | s/circumstantes/circumstances/ | 13:11 |
| infobot | ptl meant: display corruption? broken icons? Under what circumstances? | 13:11 |
| SpeedEvil | screenshots too | 13:11 |
| SpeedEvil | just normal use | 13:12 |
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| ptl | not in mine | 13:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos | 13:13 |
| ptl | the icons in the app launcher are just not updated when you install an application, it's a known bug, fixed in PR1.2 | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 13:13 |
| ptl | if you reboot they appear | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4464674308/ | 13:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | like that | 13:13 |
| ptl | no... never seen anything like that on mine | 13:14 |
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| Lynoure | gouverneur: thanks. I think I'll give password safe a proper try then first. :) As so far yours is the only recommendation I've gotten. | 13:20 |
| ptl | what about pysafe? | 13:21 |
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| Khertan | pysafe ? | 13:24 |
| Khertan | what is it ? | 13:24 |
| Khertan | A program to keep your passwords and personal info safe and always available in your hands. | 13:24 |
| Khertan | found :) | 13:24 |
| ptl | A brazilian developer who also runs an excellent blog about N900 did it. He's currently converting it to qt. | 13:25 |
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| Dassu | Is there a way to sync qtirreco with HTPC's lircd.conf file? | 13:28 |
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| Dassu | well, I guess I should start looking for lirc remote archives for matches with qtirreco archive | 13:33 |
| Dassu | takes forever but what can you do | 13:33 |
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| atiti | anyone doing google soc? | 13:36 |
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| hrw | morning | 13:39 |
| gouverneur | Lynoure: mmh, it has folders what is a ++ for me, as I like to separate work,banking,websites and so on | 13:39 |
| gouverneur | hrw: bit late for that dont you think? | 13:39 |
| hrw | ~ugt | 13:39 |
| infobot | i heard ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html | 13:39 |
| gouverneur | ;) | 13:39 |
| hrw | gouverneur: you never know which timezone I am in.. | 13:40 |
| Lynoure | gouverneur: yes, could not do without some categories | 13:40 |
| nidO | woah, whats happened to the testing repo this morningh | 13:40 |
| gouverneur | hrw: I know! | 13:40 |
| Lynoure | mornings are quite subjective things :) | 13:40 |
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| X-Fade | nidO: ? | 13:40 |
| hrw | gouverneur: I wonder how | 13:40 |
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| gouverneur | hrw: I say morning after I wake up that might be in the afternoon... | 13:40 |
| nidO | X-Fade: well it suddenly seems to be like twice the size it was 6 hours ago, and theres several versions of practically every piece of software in it | 13:41 |
| X-Fade | nidO: Ah, oops :) | 13:41 |
| X-Fade | nidO: Need to filter the cleaned ones out.. | 13:41 |
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| gouverneur | hrw: I know that I never know as long as I do not ask | 13:41 |
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| X-Fade | nidO: Should be better now ;) | 13:44 |
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| X-Fade | nidO: Didn't filter on the 'old version removed by repository cleaning' status :) | 13:45 |
| nidO | ah, much ;) | 13:45 |
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| X-Fade | nidO: Thanks for mentioning it. | 13:47 |
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| nidO | on the subject of the repos, what would it realistically take to get a new category added for themes to save them being splattered all over the place..? | 13:48 |
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| X-Fade | nidO: The problem is that the AM would need to be changed for that. | 13:48 |
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| nidO | yeah I figured as much :< | 13:49 |
| X-Fade | nidO: And that implies adding icon, translation etc etc. | 13:49 |
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| X-Fade | I really wish we thought of that when setting the categories :) | 13:49 |
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| Ken-Young | During the night, an app I have in Extras had a huge increase in downloads over the average it had settled down to over the last few weeks. Could that mean that some region got the pr1.2 update, and those folks are reloading apps? | 13:57 |
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| Stskeeps | maybe testers | 13:58 |
| haltdef | ordered n900~ | 13:58 |
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| Ken-Young | Stskeeps, 1500 downloads in less than 6 hours... | 13:58 |
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| Stskeeps | haltdef: welcome aboard | 13:58 |
| ptl | I think that it someone got the PR1.2 update we'd see him immediately bragging about it on tmo | 13:58 |
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| ptl | ~tmo | 13:59 |
| X-Fade | Ken-Young: Did it get mentioned somewhere? | 13:59 |
| ptl | ~ping | 13:59 |
| infobot | ~pong | 13:59 |
| ptl | infobot should have an entry for tmo | 13:59 |
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| Ken-Young | X-Fade, I'll have too google, and check for that. | 13:59 |
| nidO | whats the app? | 13:59 |
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| Ken-Young | nidO, orrery | 14:00 |
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| X-Fade | Ken-Young: Did you push a new version? | 14:00 |
| Ken-Young | X-Fade, Yes, but it is still languishing in QA. Only six votes so far. | 14:01 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, but you got 713 downloads from extras devel yesterday for instance. | 14:01 |
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| X-Fade | Ken-Young: For the 3.1.3-1 version | 14:02 |
| gouverneur | Ken-Young: for me it was an upgrade shown lately! | 14:02 |
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| Ken-Young | X-Fade, Oh - I dodn't know that was included in the count! Thanks X-Fade. Mystery solved. | 14:02 |
| X-Fade | Ken-Young: Yeah it is all repos combined. | 14:02 |
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| gouverneur | ah extras not testing... | 14:02 |
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| Ken-Young | gouverneur, Thanks for th info. I didn't know it would show until it got out of QA. | 14:03 |
| ptl | If it was night here I'd (re)test orrery immediately | 14:03 |
| ptl | so I could cast my vote | 14:03 |
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| ptl | I remember having some issues with it | 14:03 |
| Ken-Young | ptl, Thanks! | 14:03 |
| gouverneur | Ken-Young: have you thought of putting astrologie stuff in it yet? | 14:03 |
| ptl | this would turn off most skeptics | 14:03 |
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| Ken-Young | ptl, What issues? Please enter a bugzilla bug if you run across problems, or want new features. | 14:04 |
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| Ken-Young | gouverneur, Uhhhhh, nope! | 14:04 |
| gouverneur | good | 14:04 |
| ptl | Ken-Young: I do not really remember, I got somewhat lost in its interface. I'll test again anytime, and I'll start from its tutorial. Thanks very much for this very interesting application! | 14:05 |
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| Ken-Young | ptl The new version is more "hildonized" and should be easier to navigate. | 14:05 |
| gouverneur | read it somewhere and was some kind of glad it isnt in the upgrade | 14:05 |
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| Ken-Young | gouverneur, Version 4.0 will make random predictions about your future. | 14:06 |
| gouverneur | uugh | 14:06 |
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| Ken-Young | and flattering remarks about your personality. | 14:07 |
| gouverneur | ;) | 14:07 |
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| gouverneur | Ken-Young: a POV renderengine would be nice | 14:08 |
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| gouverneur | so you can get for example exact coords for a crate on the moon | 14:08 |
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| gouverneur | but thats way of my league of coding... still trying to get weather simulation on my selfmade globe | 14:09 |
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| gouverneur | working | 14:09 |
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| Ken-Young | gouverneur, That's a good idea. I'm planning on adding a page for each planet, and I could add that there, for thouse planets which have a visible surface. | 14:10 |
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| gouverneur | Ken-Young: yeah thas what I mean | 14:11 |
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| ptl | Are you an astronomer, Ken-Young? | 14:11 |
| ptl | just curious | 14:12 |
| gouverneur | what was the map globe thing called? maybe it has a piece you want to use | 14:12 |
| Ken-Young | ptl Yup. | 14:13 |
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| gouverneur | Ken-Young: marble it was | 14:13 |
| gouverneur | they have mars moon and so on available | 14:14 |
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| jwittema | anyone here knows how to create a changelog in packageview on maemo.org ? | 14:14 |
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| X-Fade | jwittema: debian/changelog | 14:14 |
| Ken-Young | gouverneur, One can also show things like the locations of the Mars rovers, moon landers, etc. | 14:14 |
| jwittema | it contains changes, but the don't show up | 14:14 |
| X-Fade | jwittema: It gets parsed from the debian/changelog in your package. | 14:14 |
| X-Fade | jwittema: Which package is yours? | 14:15 |
| jwittema | see http://maemo.org/packages/view/batterygraph/ | 14:15 |
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| MiXu- | Have you checked how much BatteryGraph consumes battery? | 14:17 |
| jwittema | the background daemon uses less than 4 seconds cpu time per day | 14:18 |
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| MiXu- | ok, not much then I guess :) | 14:18 |
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| X-Fade | jwittema: Ah, non-free. | 14:19 |
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| X-Fade | jwittema: Not supported, sorry. | 14:19 |
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| jwittema | ah, ok. too bad | 14:19 |
| X-Fade | jwittema: It gets parsed in the builder, from the source package. | 14:19 |
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| jwittema | and there's no way I manualy can edit this information? | 14:20 |
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| X-Fade | No, not atm. | 14:21 |
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| ptl | and how much memory does it take? (the background daemon) | 14:21 |
| ptl | batterygraph is not open source? | 14:21 |
| Gizmokid2005 | talk.maemo.org seems to be having problems this morning, no? | 14:22 |
| jwittema | don't know how much memory the daemon uses... | 14:22 |
| jwittema | batterygraph is not open source (but freeware) | 14:22 |
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| ptl | I saw that | 14:24 |
| ptl | that's weird, because he asks for donations. But why would I donate to a closed-source program? | 14:25 |
| RurouniJones | Because if you use it you should ebenefit from improvements to it | 14:25 |
| jwittema | too show your gratitude and inspire me to improve the program | 14:26 |
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| Stskeeps | jwittema: you speak directly with BME? | 14:27 |
| jwittema | I subscribe to dbus events | 14:27 |
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| Stskeeps | ah | 14:27 |
| * ShadowJK wants to speak directly with bq27200 | 14:28 | |
| Stskeeps | ever saw the bme protocol info i reversee engineered? | 14:28 |
| jwittema | htop shows 1.3% memory uses for the background daemon btw | 14:28 |
| jwittema | stskeeps: no, don't think so | 14:28 |
| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, has anyone actually tested if maemo5 bme speaks same protocol? | 14:28 |
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| ptl | jwittema: are you the developer? I think you should make it clear that your program is not open source with a license section on your homepage. I've already seem demonstrations of your program, it seem to be of excellent quality, congratulations for that, but I don't see the point in closing the source specially on this case. | 14:29 |
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| ptl | jwittema: and even then, by not allowing commercial usage you are forbidding it to be displayed e.g on Nokia showcases, where it would impress the prospective clients... | 14:30 |
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| ptl | jwittema: your insights on battery usage could greatly be spreaded to other users/developers if the source were open, and interesting new features could even be added. | 14:30 |
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| ptl | Stskeeps: do you have a page for your bme findings? | 14:31 |
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| * ptl ignored | 14:40 | |
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| wazd | well, FRUCT conference was awesome :) | 14:45 |
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| thresh | a lot of people there? | 14:46 |
| wazd | but it was hard to keep myself not to say "yeeeeeeeaaaaaaah" when Nokia Marketing guy was telling how nokia cares bout developers and stuff | 14:46 |
| wazd | thresh: yeah | 14:46 |
| juhovh | wow | 14:47 |
| juhovh | you should've put on sunglasses and say a punchline before that though | 14:47 |
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| juhovh | then it would've been C.S.I. Miami | 14:47 |
| thresh | :-)) | 14:47 |
| wazd | :D | 14:48 |
| thresh | wazd: seriously, was anything interesting other than ab's talk? | 14:48 |
| wazd | thresh: lot's of russian community guys there :) | 14:49 |
| wazd | thresh: http://abbra.livejournal.com/162061.html btw | 14:49 |
| ptl | any practical news for N900 users? | 14:49 |
| thresh | wazd: yes i've read his blog post | 14:50 |
| thresh | i will probably be there too | 14:50 |
| wazd | thresh: cool :) | 14:50 |
| thresh | need to check if i has his mobile number thouhg | 14:51 |
| thresh | though | 14:51 |
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| ptl | Am I being read? That's now 3 things I said that got unanswered. Am I being a jerk or is it that noone can read me? | 14:54 |
| nidO | who said that? | 14:54 |
| corecode_ | no you're blue like everybody else | 14:55 |
| corecode_ | ptl: i guess nobody knows what to tell you | 14:56 |
| ptl | oh, ok. | 14:56 |
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| ptl | But what means to be blue like everybody else? Is it the color of active nicknames in your IRC client? | 14:56 |
| corecode_ | yes | 14:57 |
| corecode_ | :) | 14:57 |
| corecode_ | you hash to blue | 14:57 |
| corecode_ | unfortunately | 14:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: have you tried to speak to bq27200 directly? | 14:58 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, nope | 14:58 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, there's a driver in linux, but I got stuck trying to figure out what/where/how tells the driver that the device exists | 14:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 14:59 |
| ptl | Stskeeps: I am googling but can't find your reverse-engineering efforts on it, can you lead me to the page? | 14:59 |
| ShadowJK | Also, bme is speaking some i2c directly from userspace, but I don't know what device it's speaking with | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | orrery is cool | 15:00 |
| ShadowJK | orrery? | 15:00 |
| ptl | Stskeeps: found your page on maemo.org but there's no mention of the reverse-engineering of bme | 15:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: unrelated mumbling | 15:01 |
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| ptl | The orrery program displays the night (and day!) sky on N900 devices. It displays constellations, and other astronomical information such as moon phase calendars | 15:01 |
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| ShadowJK | I should strace bme from boot :) | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: just done with processing backscroll | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/bme/mce ;-) | 15:02 |
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| ShadowJK | ptl: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/BME_Protocol maybe | 15:02 |
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| ShadowJK | but that even says it's not for n900 | 15:02 |
| * ShadowJK is in the middle of first charge of mugen's 2400mAh battery | 15:03 | |
| ptl | you did buy that monster? | 15:04 |
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| ptl | how does it feel? is it practical to take the phone on the pocket? | 15:05 |
| ptl | Now, would SmartReflex™ work on the mügen power battery? | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 15:05 |
| Lumpio- | BME? >_> | 15:05 |
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| ShadowJK | battery management entity, or something like that | 15:06 |
| Lumpio- | k | 15:06 |
| SpeedEvil | smartreflex is a cpu thing | 15:06 |
| ShadowJK | ptl: it feels practical for my use | 15:06 |
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| ptl | I'd but it if hadn't already bought a protective case for the N900... | 15:07 |
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| ptl | ShadowJK: thanks, but maybe it's not this page, because it doesn't have any change by Stskeeps on the history... | 15:08 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 15:08 |
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| corecode_ | SpeedEvil: how's the usb host situation? | 15:11 |
| corecode_ | SpeedEvil: you found some loophole in the errata or specs? | 15:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | corecode_: there's no need for a loophole. We just need the kernel drivers for usb-host protocol, then we should be fine with manually enabled unpowred hostmode (the mode that needs a powered hub or y-cable) | 15:14 |
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| corecode_ | ah | 15:15 |
| corecode_ | no way to power the port? | 15:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | corecode_, I have regrettably had no time. Spending most of my time digging. http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/ | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode_: if we manage to switch on the GAIA chargepump, and the schematics are somewhat wrong on a missing capacitor, we even might get power | 15:15 |
| FIQ | i don't think that google is down so... how to kill the web browser? | 15:16 |
| FIQ | completly | 15:16 |
| FIQ | not just close some windows | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode_: worst thing to throw stick on our legs is PHY chip not switching between pullup and pulldown resistors | 15:17 |
| Jaffa | FIQ: Power menu > close active task? | 15:17 |
| corecode_ | SpeedEvil: what are you doing? | 15:17 |
| corecode_ | is that house too low or are you filling up the sides | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode_: but that wouldn't be a major showstopper | 15:17 |
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| corecode_ | FIQ: xterm + killall browser browserd | 15:18 |
| FIQ | ty | 15:18 |
| corecode_ | DocScrutinizer: yea that would suck | 15:18 |
| corecode_ | kudos | 15:18 |
| FIQ | jaffa: that didn't help at first | 15:18 |
| FIQ | did it 2 times | 15:18 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode_, I am extedndcing the lawn. | 15:18 |
| FIQ | worked now though | 15:18 |
| Dassu | =) | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | corecode_: I mean, we got Openmoko Frerunner charging hostmode running, where we seen same problem of pullup/down set wrong | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | There was much unremoved spoil when digging pond. | 15:19 |
| SpeedEvil | FIQ, see dsmetololl | 15:19 |
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| SpeedEvil | FIQ, just killing browserd will trigger reboots. | 15:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: oh? never seen that | 15:20 |
| corecode_ | fyi, those fake nokia CA-101 cables from hong kong for $1 work perfectly | 15:21 |
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| corecode_ | finally enough micro-usb cables around | 15:21 |
| SpeedEvil | lol. | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | just got my new screen protectors. | 15:22 |
| corecode_ | no, serious | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | KY screen protectors. | 15:23 |
| corecode_ | ah, my screen protector is quite good too | 15:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | they are _slidy_ | 15:23 |
| corecode_ | it is that 3m finnish sounding name | 15:23 |
| corecode_ | kiiimotsu or so | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | (not really) | 15:23 |
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| corecode_ | vinntatu? | 15:23 |
| corecode_ | something like that | 15:23 |
| corecode_ | SpeedEvil: how come the lawn is on the first floor level? | 15:24 |
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| corecode_ | raised lawn? | 15:24 |
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| corecode_ | heated from below? | 15:24 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode_, house built on slope. | 15:24 |
| corecode_ | ah | 15:24 |
| corecode_ | cute | 15:24 |
| corecode_ | we have that a lot here | 15:24 |
| corecode_ | enter 0, exit 12, both "ground floor" | 15:25 |
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| corecode_ | :) | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | corecode. Only 2m difference. | 15:25 |
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| ShadowJK | bleh, now dsp video decode stopped working alltogether | 15:26 |
| ShadowJK | more fun stuff in dmesg | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | I should be finishing off toiday, but 6c and rain | 15:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | So am back in bed. | 15:26 |
| thresh | wazd: yeah i've found his phone | 15:26 |
| thresh | not sure i'll be there at 7pm though | 15:26 |
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| ShadowJK | but the most annoying thing is that the media player is failing silently | 15:27 |
| ShadowJK | I want error messages if there's an error! | 15:27 |
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| wazd | thresh: cool, I'm heading there right now to meet Vlad, so we'll be wandering around for a while :) | 15:27 |
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| * thresh has no idea who Vlad is | 15:31 | |
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| ptl | Vlad Tepes, of course | 15:32 |
| ptl | aka Vlad The Impaler | 15:32 |
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| ptl | aka Count Dracula. | 15:32 |
| MiXu- | Anyone know if there's a way to easily disable prefetching Ovi Maps in bootup? | 15:33 |
| MiXu- | I don't use it. It's just eating mah memory. | 15:33 |
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| thresh | ptl: ah so he's now in Moscow, neat! | 15:34 |
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| MiXu- | Oh wait. It's not even prefetched :o | 15:38 |
| MiXu- | Never mind :) | 15:38 |
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| * noobmonk3y just had steak n chips and is stuffed.......... | 15:42 | |
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| noobmonk3y | wtf is up with rmt ... like a yoyo! | 15:43 |
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| Ijan | zaheerm i would like to pm you | 15:50 |
| Ijan | is it okay? | 15:50 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | is there any way to add a .ics subscription to the N900 calendar? I know you can import events from an ics file, but is there any way to make it an actual subscription so it gets refreshed? | 15:58 |
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| noobmonk3y | sorry Gizmokid2005 - no idea | 16:01 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | noobmonk3y: it's not looking promising from what I can tell...it really doesn't make sense, you'd think that would be a simple and logical feature to have. | 16:01 |
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| cvandonderen | hi | 16:01 |
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| noobmonk3y | hehe, no idea what an ics file is even, but assuming it is a load of apopintments that can be imported to the calendar? | 16:02 |
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| noobmonk3y | if so a sync would just be a deamon checking somewhere for updates? | 16:02 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | noobmonk3y: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICalendar <-- yeah, basically would just be refreshing the ics based on a specific refresh interval | 16:03 |
| Gizmokid2005 | would be considering it a "subscription" | 16:03 |
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| noobmonk3y | i would assume it could be done, probably a request thread over at T.M.O? | 16:05 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | noobmonk3y: that's what I was thinking, but I figured I'd check to see if maybe I was just dense and missed something that's there... | 16:05 |
| noobmonk3y | lol doesnt sound dense at all :D | 16:06 |
| Gizmokid2005 | I just find it hard to believe that with so many people this is such an overlooked "feature" | 16:07 |
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| thresh | wazd_e63: now who's Vlad? | 16:13 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | noobmonk3y: looks like http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/improving_the_calendar_in_n900/ #6 & 7 are what I'm referring to. | 16:19 |
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| noobmonk3y | wow..... big ol' brainstorm! | 16:20 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | Yep! | 16:20 |
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| wazd_e63 | Thresh: omweather admin :) | 16:22 |
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| kyle__ | hiyoo | 16:26 |
| atiti | hi | 16:26 |
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| pronto | i wonder if anyone is porting chromium to the n900 | 16:27 |
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| marcusb | Why all the complexity with /opt and scripts and what not? Any reason one can't just "mv /usr /home; ln -s /home/usr /usr" ?? | 16:28 |
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| hrw | marcusb: emmc is fscking slow | 16:29 |
| hrw | compared to onenand flash chip | 16:30 |
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| marcusb | ok | 16:30 |
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| AntiXpucT | [17:13:12] CTCP VERSION ответ от Skim[n900] [~kvirc@n900.antixpuct.ru]: KVIrc 4.0.0 svn-4222-N900 'Insomnia' 20100125 - build 2010-03-26 12:25:27 UTC - Linux (2.6.28.10maemo-omap1) | 16:32 |
| AntiXpucT | (i've ported KVIrc to N900) :) | 16:32 |
| hrw | AntiXpucT: I do not trust ctcp version | 16:33 |
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| ccooke | marcusb: The other reason is that there are things in /usr needed before /home is available | 16:34 |
| AntiXpucT | hrw, then wait some time, while i rebuild it with new paths and optify packages ;) | 16:35 |
| hrw | AntiXpucT: today irc clients allows to set anything | 16:35 |
| AntiXpucT | and i'll give you a links | 16:35 |
| marcusb | ccooke: oops | 16:35 |
| AntiXpucT | hrw, but i kill 3 days for porting, and i knew, that it is real version ;) | 16:35 |
| hrw | AntiXpucT: client which I normally use is already built for maemo5 but I do not use it | 16:35 |
| hrw | AntiXpucT: 15:33 < hrw> AntiXpucT: I do not trust ctcp version | 16:37 |
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| hrw | Irssi 0.8.14 (20090728) - http://irssi.org/ | 16:37 |
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| Vratha_ | i spy on people talking on irc using tcpdump | 16:42 |
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| corecode_ | what's that "backup" app people keep talking about | 16:43 |
| andrewfblack | What is up with some people taking the same theme changing background change hue and calling it a new theme? | 16:43 |
| * SpeedEvil dumps on people using tcp. | 16:43 | |
| corecode_ | oh talking about background | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | andrewfblack: open source? | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:44 |
| Vratha_ | corecode_: ubuntu one. | 16:44 |
| corecode_ | http://panorama.epfl.ch/index.php?&width=1920&height=1200 | 16:44 |
| petteri | uh.. I was hoping fore pr 1.2 today | 16:44 |
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| corecode_ | i wanted to use that as background | 16:44 |
| corecode_ | dynamically | 16:44 |
| Vratha_ | s/\./?/ | 16:44 |
| corecode_ | Vratha_: is there a readymade app? | 16:44 |
| andrewfblack | Stskeeps: I'm not naming a name but their is one theme designer that drives me crasy with his slight mods to the same theme over and over | 16:44 |
| Vratha_ | corecode_: on ubuntu there is | 16:44 |
| Vratha_ | but i don't use desktop linux | 16:45 |
| corecode_ | Vratha_: but people use it for maemo, or so | 16:45 |
| corecode_ | also one is suprslo | 16:45 |
| Vratha_ | so i haven't used it | 16:45 |
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| Vratha_ | don't know about maemo | 16:45 |
| Vratha_ | thought you meant generally | 16:46 |
| andrewfblack | corecode_: what you mean dynamically you want it to move like on website? | 16:46 |
| corecode_ | andrewfblack: no, the picture updates every 10 minutes or so | 16:47 |
| * andrewfblack needs inkscape on his n900 or thumb drive | 16:47 | |
| corecode_ | problem is also that the screen is too small | 16:48 |
| corecode_ | can't fit the 360 deg panorama | 16:49 |
| corecode_ | and i'm only using 2 screens | 16:49 |
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| corecode_ | anybody set up snowy yet? ubuntu one notes is quite slow | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | TomaszD: got PLA, ta | 16:51 |
| andrewfblack | corecode_: Your most likly going to have to wait for PR1.3 I hear we should be getting html backgrounds then and you will be able to do that. Also their is someone working on a 800x480 widget that will cover up your entire background. It will let you do animations and stuff. | 16:51 |
| andrewfblack | Stskeeps: Bubble Bobble will be in extras tonight | 16:52 |
| andrewfblack | Theme that is | 16:52 |
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| gameprograma | Hey all. | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | cool :) | 16:52 |
| jatt | which chat program do you use in your n900? | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | andrewfblack: you did see i update the template right? | 16:52 |
| jatt | I use x-chat on my laptop is it available for maemo? | 16:53 |
| gameprograma | Are there instructions for updating the SDK installation? | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | jatt: yes | 16:53 |
| gameprograma | I only see the instructions for installing the SDK from scratch using the GUI installer. | 16:53 |
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| andrewfblack | Stskeeps: Yep Thanks | 16:53 |
| * andrewfblack wishes everyone could see how many PMs he gets a day about theme design | 16:54 | |
| andrewfblack | I got several ohh my god I can't build theme PMs when new hildon-theme-layout-5 was updated | 16:54 |
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| corecode_ | andrewfblack: no, putting a jpg there would be fine | 16:55 |
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| gameprograma | Anyone? :( | 16:57 |
| thresh | where's wazd when you need him | 16:59 |
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| andre__ | gameprograma, URL? | 16:59 |
| thresh | gameprograma: IIRC SDK are better reinstalled then updated | 16:59 |
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| gameprograma | thresh: That means I'll have to download all of about 1GB or so all over again. :/ | 16:59 |
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| gameprograma | andre__: What URL? The SDK installation instructions? | 17:00 |
| andre__ | yes. | 17:00 |
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| MohammadAG | gameprograma, my SDK works and it was updated | 17:00 |
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| MohammadAG | andre__, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation :) | 17:01 |
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| gameprograma | andre__: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation | 17:01 |
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| MohammadAG | Need some help optifying a python source for py2deb | 17:02 |
| gameprograma | MohammadAG: How carry out the update? Did you use the GUI installer? | 17:02 |
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| andre__ | gameprograma: true, not mentioning updating. feel free to file a ticket against Dev Platform > Documentation in bugs.maemo.org | 17:02 |
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| MohammadAG | gameprograma, it doesn't really matter, to update just use apt-get dist-upgrade | 17:02 |
| gameprograma | Got it. | 17:02 |
| MohammadAG | as fakeroot of course | 17:02 |
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| TomaszD | Stskeeps, k, np | 17:03 |
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| marcusb | # apt-get install diff => "Note, selecting busybox instead of diff." "busybox is already the newest version." and then: # diff => -sh: diff: not foun | 17:04 |
| gameprograma | Thanks for the help, guys. | 17:04 |
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| andre__ | marcusb, bug 3032 | 17:05 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3032 missing diff utility (required by the GNU Coding Standards) | 17:05 |
| marcusb | ok | 17:05 |
| marcusb | thanks | 17:05 |
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| mgedmin | oh, cool | 17:05 |
| mgedmin | avahi-daemon also needs that | 17:05 |
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| hrw | marcusb: thats nokism | 17:07 |
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| mgedmin | andre__, are you the one to ask about creating a bugzilla product for avahi in the Maemo Extras category? | 17:07 |
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| andre__ | mgedmin, yes, by email: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products | 17:07 |
| mgedmin | thanks! | 17:07 |
| andre__ | and bare with me as I just got back from vacation. long backlog :-/ | 17:08 |
| andre__ | err bear | 17:08 |
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| gouverneur | can anyone help me with sending an sms via cli? | 17:10 |
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| gouverneur | is there a telepathy interface or something? | 17:11 |
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| gouverneur | looking in to opt it looks like noone ever follows a guidline (dont know if there is one) | 17:11 |
| marcusb | geez, they can't fix this diff thing in 2 years? *grmbl* | 17:12 |
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| * mgedmin feels no hurry | 17:13 | |
| ShadowJK | battery meter is pretty confused by the mugen battery, even after a discharge-charge cycle.. | 17:14 |
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| corecode_ | how long does it last now? | 17:15 |
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| ShadowJK | wow, nexus 1 screen res is "fake" | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | olpc-like | 17:21 |
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| Corsac | ? | 17:21 |
| andrewfblack | I just found my new work phone, where I work we only have access to iDEN network so I have always been stuck with really crappy phones. I just saw the Motorola i1 and even though it wont be replacing my N900 as my primary phone its the best iden phone I have ever seen | 17:21 |
| nidO | Corsac essentially the phone doesnt fully utilise the display's supported resolution | 17:22 |
| Corsac | sounds like fail | 17:22 |
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| microlith | well no | 17:24 |
| microlith | it does use the display's supported resolution, the display simply isn't RGB on every pixel | 17:24 |
| ShadowJK | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/03/secrets-of-the-nexus-ones-screen-science-color-and-hacks.ars/ | 17:25 |
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| MohammadAG | how long does an invitation into extras-devel take? | 17:25 |
| ShadowJK | As far as I understand it, it's only 800x480 for green pixels :) | 17:26 |
| microlith | pretty much | 17:26 |
| noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: Pretty quick during the week, but weekends are slow, did mine sat morning, got it accepted mon morning | 17:26 |
| MohammadAG | noobmonk3y, oh, so maybe I should stop refreshing my email account :) | 17:27 |
| noobmonk3y | done manually | 17:27 |
| noobmonk3y | yup ;) | 17:27 |
| MohammadAG | yeah I know lol | 17:27 |
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| MohammadAG | noobmonk3y, so I just upload the three files and the autobuilder does the rest? | 17:28 |
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| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8443&stc=1&d=1269617198 | 17:29 |
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| MohammadAG | rebooting into linux | 17:32 |
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| noobmonk3y | wb | 17:36 |
| noobmonk3y | and yes MohammadAG - yes you upload one(Changes file) - it checks and then asks you to upload the other two,.... | 17:36 |
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| Gizmokid2005 | alright, I feel like an idiot, but I can't find this video, or figure out the name of the feature. In Firefox you can swipe right/left to bring up the menus on those sides, (tabs, etc), and I know there's a way to do it in Qt...but I can't think of the name or find the video that showcases this feature....Help??? | 17:38 |
| MohammadAG | ty noobmonk3y :) | 17:38 |
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| Arif_ | moo | 17:47 |
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| Guest91702 | silahkan masuk Guest91702 silahkan chit-chat dimari.. | 17:54 |
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| Guest91702 | silahkan masuk evo silahkan chit-chat dimari.. | 17:54 |
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| Guest91702 | silahkan masuk vpoluceno silahkan chit-chat dimari.. | 17:56 |
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| wazd_e63 | For those who cares: we're near the monument :) | 17:57 |
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| ptl | which monument? | 17:59 |
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| Myrtti | ptl: cheesecake | 18:04 |
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| FIQ | hm, a question | 18:07 |
| FIQ | the opt-thing-idea | 18:08 |
| FIQ | why have that? | 18:08 |
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| rexjack | just one questin how do i restart the musik search in mediaplayer | 18:10 |
| aquatix | Myrtti: the cake is a lie | 18:10 |
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| corecode_ | what's the dimensions of the backdrop? | 18:15 |
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| corecode_ | oh | 18:18 |
| corecode_ | i need to cut the image? | 18:18 |
| corecode_ | hm | 18:18 |
| AntiXpucT | http://antixpuct.ru/maemo/opt/ | 18:20 |
| AntiXpucT | it is kvirc for N900 | 18:20 |
| ptl | wow | 18:20 |
| ptl | really? | 18:20 |
| ptl | lemme see | 18:20 |
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| AntiXpucT | but it is not fully usable | 18:21 |
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| MohammadAG | konttori, ping | 18:23 |
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| b0unc3 | hello | 18:24 |
| ptl | AntiXpucT: why not? what's the problem/ | 18:25 |
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| gouverneur | rexjack: search maemo for trackerd | 18:25 |
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| aoeu | hello! | 18:25 |
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| Myrtti | FIQ: you mean optifying? | 18:25 |
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| aoeu | is there a package for the n900 that includes the 'screen' utility? | 18:25 |
| FIQ | yes | 18:26 |
| AntiXpucT | ptl, widgets size ;) | 18:26 |
| FIQ | btw, why cannot we install .deb packages not coming from a repo? | 18:26 |
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| greenfly | you can (if they are compiled for ARM) but you have to be careful to not fill up the / partition | 18:26 |
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| greenfly | also there might be dependencies that you have to pull down manually | 18:27 |
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| noobmonk3y | screen utility? | 18:27 |
| Flandry | Are there instructions somewhere for updating the SDK? | 18:27 |
| greenfly | having packages in repositories solves this as the dependencies are handled | 18:27 |
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| FIQ | yes | 18:27 |
| FIQ | so KVirc isn't optified? | 18:27 |
| b0unc3 | I just upgraded my SDK and now when I copy the bin on my device I get a dependencies problem with libhildon1 ,I think this issue is related with the upgrade, is there any way to fix ? | 18:27 |
| greenfly | dunno | 18:27 |
| nidO | it may or may not be | 18:28 |
| aoeu | noobmonk3y: yes. http://linux.die.net/man/1/screen | 18:28 |
| greenfly | I've been running irssi from a remote screen session for irc for years | 18:28 |
| Myrtti | FIQ: the optify thing is because the / is quite small partition and you end up filling it unless you install software to other partitions. Filling the / is in general A Bad Idea™ as you prolly know | 18:28 |
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| FIQ | yes | 18:28 |
| FIQ | but | 18:28 |
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| MohammadAG | why is there a New MMS string rtcom-messaging-ui.mo | 18:28 |
| FIQ | then we come to the next thing: | 18:28 |
| MohammadAG | +in* | 18:29 |
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| FIQ | why having a root partition even smaller than the swap? | 18:29 |
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| nidO | limitation of the size of nand memory chips | 18:29 |
| achipa | FIQ: hardware limit | 18:29 |
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| FIQ | ok | 18:29 |
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| FIQ | but i would happily spend 10GB of MyDocs to the rootfs (if that would be possible) | 18:30 |
| ptl | aoeu: screen is available in the tools repository | 18:30 |
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| MohammadAG | it should be | 18:30 |
| nidO | technically it might be possible by repartitioning | 18:30 |
| noobmonk3y | cheers aoeu - interesting :D | 18:30 |
| ptl | aoeu: I have it installed and it works perfectly | 18:30 |
| nidO | but youll end up with a device that takes like 5 minutes to boot | 18:30 |
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| noobmonk3y | Arif_: You are quiet, this is not normal? ;) | 18:30 |
| FIQ | meh | 18:30 |
| FIQ | ok | 18:30 |
| greenfly | there /has/ to be a rootfs / opt faq we can point people to | 18:31 |
| nidO | nand = much much much faster than emmc | 18:31 |
| greenfly | this question comes up every day | 18:31 |
| nidO | its in about 50 places in the wiki | 18:31 |
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| nidO | and like 5,000 on the forums | 18:31 |
| greenfly | that's the problem | 18:31 |
| ptl | there is, greenfly | 18:31 |
| Flandry | http://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem | 18:31 |
| greenfly | ptl: then let's use it :) | 18:31 |
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| Flandry | Great, now could someone point me to the wiki entry on updating SDK? :P | 18:32 |
| nidO | its just apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade | 18:32 |
| nidO | as fakeroot | 18:32 |
| Flandry | I really borked it when i tried apt-get before :/ | 18:32 |
| MohammadAG | Flandry, apt-get dist-upgrade | 18:32 |
| MohammadAG | it doesn't need a wiki | 18:32 |
| MohammadAG | nidO, beat me to it | 18:33 |
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| MohammadAG | Flandry, that borks the N900, not the SDK | 18:33 |
| Flandry | do you have to disable any repos | 18:33 |
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| aoeu | ptl: much appreciated | 18:33 |
| Flandry | I'm speaking past tense from experience lol | 18:33 |
| Flandry | I'll try on the new image | 18:33 |
| Flandry | Just wanted to verify | 18:33 |
| MohammadAG | Flandry, I had all repos enabled | 18:34 |
| Flandry | ok thanks | 18:34 |
| Flandry | Read the changes thread, thanks for that | 18:34 |
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| MohammadAG | Flandry, np :) | 18:34 |
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| Flandry | oh | 18:35 |
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| aoeu | noobmonk3y: welcome to the dark side :) | 18:35 |
| MohammadAG | I repeat, why is there a new MMS string? | 18:35 |
| Flandry | does it need to be done in both targets separately? | 18:35 |
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| corecode_ | so what do i use to download a file from http? | 18:36 |
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| corecode_ | for scripting purposes | 18:36 |
| corecode_ | wget doesn't exist | 18:36 |
| Flandry | wget | 18:36 |
| Flandry | depend on it | 18:36 |
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| MohammadAG | Flandry, depends on what you want to do | 18:38 |
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| MohammadAG | if it's for programming, yes, if it's for emulation of the UI, X86 | 18:38 |
| Flandry | ok, so yes for release | 18:38 |
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| ptl | Flandry: I updated my maemo5 sdk ok, but I have some repositories on it that sometimes fail and it won't proceed if apt return an error. | 18:39 |
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| ptl | Flandry: so to run the maemo5 gui I had to disable these repositories | 18:39 |
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| ptl | Flandry: but the procedure is just that - you run the gui installer for the maemo5 sdk and all goes well | 18:39 |
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| * noobmonk3y grins slightly evil'y | 18:40 | |
| nidO | so how was butlins | 18:40 |
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| noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: New MMS String - as in MMS - as in frals? - possibly something to do with nokia assisting Frals? | 18:40 |
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| marcusb | anybody has native packages for libgles2-sgx-img-dev and opengles-sgx-img-common-dev? I want a native libqt4-dev | 18:41 |
| b0unc3 | guys, anyone get problems using .debs created after the SDK update ? | 18:41 |
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| dotblank | Is there a way to use gpsd? | 18:48 |
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| MohammadAG | noobmonk3y, wouldn't he have said something about it? And I really doubt it since it doesn't follow MMS specs | 18:53 |
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| nidO | who knows, nokia on the way to adding it themselves maybe | 18:55 |
| ptl | is there an easy way to use gpsd on your ubuntu and connecting to the GPS on the N900? | 18:55 |
| noobmonk3y | MohammadAG: If it is something to do with pr1.2 he would not be allowed to talk about it | 18:55 |
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| marcusb | is there a calendar app supporting caldavd? | 18:56 |
| noobmonk3y | there must be a reason it is not there, and in my head if they are not officially creating it, it must be there to support it | 18:56 |
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| noobmonk3y | marcusb: dont think so, but no calendar expert | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | noobmonk3y, live wallpapers were talked about :) | 18:57 |
| noobmonk3y | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=22831 | 18:57 |
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| noobmonk3y | hmm true somethings have been mentioned, but i'm very certain other things have been kept hush hush :D | 18:57 |
| petteri | ahh... does live wallpapers work with new sdk | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | petteri, I already pinged konttori, he doesn't seem to be ponging, so I'm assuming he's away | 18:58 |
| * noobmonk3y plays ping pong then goes home ;) | 18:58 | |
| noobmonk3y | ciao alls | 18:58 |
| nidO | later | 18:59 |
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| dotblank | what repo is bluez-utils-test in? | 19:02 |
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| mgedmin | dotblank, try searching on http://maemo.org/packages | 19:13 |
| * MohammadAG wonders why qwerty12 never comes on here anymore :( | 19:14 | |
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| Corsac | hmhm, still no news of PR1.2? | 19:14 |
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| dotblank | What exactly is the purpose of minigpsd? | 19:15 |
| dotblank | does it actually use the gps device? or does it connect to an external one | 19:15 |
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| naxxatoe|mbp | dotblank: i wondered the same | 19:18 |
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| dotblank | Because im trying to use aircrack-ng with it and it has an option to use gpsd | 19:18 |
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| dotblank | maybe I can modify the source of airodump-ng to add support for liblocation API | 19:20 |
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| ptl | does GPSd allow remote forwarding of GPS data? | 19:28 |
| dotblank | I think so but I can't seem to find a wrapper for gpsd in maemo | 19:29 |
| dotblank | its been replaced by liblocation | 19:29 |
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| ptl | there's minigpsd for it | 19:30 |
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| ptl | would it work? | 19:30 |
| ptl | hmm | 19:30 |
| ptl | liblocation reserves the GPS and doesn't allow it to be used? | 19:30 |
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| gouverneur | b0unc3: have you thought of that devices are still !=PR1.2 before you asked that question? | 19:31 |
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| TheOne | hi @all | 19:39 |
| aziwoqpd | hi @one | 19:39 |
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| TheOne | my new n900 will be deliver tomorrow | 19:40 |
| TheOne | is there a tutorial with first steps? | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, just got the invitation :) | 19:40 |
| MohammadAG | TheOne, there's a Get started app installed | 19:41 |
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| Lumpio- | Put battery in, push button. | 19:41 |
| TheOne | ah cool | 19:41 |
| MohammadAG | and there are hundreds of videos on youtube | 19:41 |
| b0unc3 | gouverneur, yes, but so, if I release a deb (builded with pr1.2, since also autobuilder is updated to 1.2) nobody would be able to test it ? | 19:41 |
| * disco_stu me eclipso.. hasta lueguines | 19:41 | |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG, yay | 19:43 |
| TheOne | i am really happy - can't wait to get that device in my fingers ^^ | 19:43 |
| ptl | TheOne: there's a quickstart guide with it, but if you really want a manual, you can download the (excellent) manual in PDF format from the Nokia site | 19:43 |
| TheOne | ah okay, thx | 19:43 |
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| TheOne | some of you guys involved with MeeGo? | 19:44 |
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| Khertan | hi ! | 19:45 |
| ptl | hello again | 19:45 |
| ptl | TheOne: join #meego | 19:46 |
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| Khertan | does there is a dvorak keyboard layout available ? | 19:51 |
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| hrw | hi | 19:52 |
| hrw | Khertan: ukeyboard had one iirc | 19:52 |
| hrw | b0unc3: exactly | 19:52 |
| Khertan | hi hrw and thx ... i ll take a look at it | 19:53 |
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| TheOne | can someone tell me how much internet traffic volume he/she has with the n900 per month? | 19:56 |
| TheOne | circa | 19:56 |
| TheOne | more than 1GB ? | 19:57 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, does autobuilder build applications for both i368 and armel? | 19:58 |
| Noobmonk3y | MohammadAG, yup think so | 19:59 |
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| lcuk | yes | 19:59 |
| Noobmonk3y | armel always takes longer | 19:59 |
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| * lcuk finds a quiet little patch in the corner and curls up to go to sleep | 20:00 | |
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| Noobmonk3y | lol | 20:00 |
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| Noobmonk3y | evening | 20:00 |
| Noobmonk3y | lcuk, me thinks u will like the next healthcheck :) | 20:00 |
| Khertan | hrw: ukeyboard is only a virtual keyboard not for mapping the n900 keyboard, isn t it ? | 20:01 |
| lcuk | does it check blood pressure and administer amphetamines? | 20:01 |
| hrw | Khertan: in n810 times it was both | 20:01 |
| lcuk | oh, and prescribe those little matchsticks for eyes | 20:01 |
| Khertan | bacon flying to verify lcd dead pixels ? | 20:01 |
| dmj726_n9001 | TheOne: it varies hugely from user to user. | 20:02 |
| lcuk | mmmmmmmmmmmmmm bacon | 20:02 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 20:02 |
| lcuk | thanks Khertan for reminding me of the finer things in life | 20:02 |
| dmj726_n9001 | some use a couple hundred mb some use several gb | 20:02 |
| Khertan | hrw: maybe that description isn't clear enought | 20:02 |
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| Khertan | lcu: héhé | 20:02 |
| Khertan | lcuk: héhé | 20:02 |
| TheOne | dmj726_n9001: i know, but i though someone can tell me some numbers | 20:03 |
| Khertan | arg cannot be install package missing :( | 20:03 |
| dmj726_n9001 | I think there is a thread in the forums. | 20:04 |
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| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, cause it built the i368 and it's getting pushed to extras-devel, but I haven't received anything about the armel version | 20:05 |
| Noobmonk3y | takes an hour at best recently a few more | 20:05 |
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| summel | can i install maemo on a touchbook? | 20:09 |
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| cehteh | mer at best | 20:09 |
| Noobmonk3y | well u can get it on an ipad so why not | 20:09 |
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| summel | ewww ipad | 20:10 |
| Noobmonk3y | lol | 20:10 |
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| nidO | summel it's already known to run mer | 20:12 |
| summel | how does mer compare to the maemo on trhe n900? | 20:12 |
| nidO | maemo support is apparently on the way | 20:12 |
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| nidO | and knowing AI, theyll probably find a way to manage it pretty well | 20:12 |
| summel | i would use meego if it would be better then moblin | 20:12 |
| nidO | I dont really know why you'd want either mer or maemo on a touchbook other than to say "oh look it works" | 20:13 |
| cehteh | well you cant install nokia binaries on another device, the eula forbids that | 20:13 |
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| summel | nidO: because i love the maemo on the n900 :) | 20:14 |
| summel | and i dont want the ai "os" | 20:14 |
| nidO | thats because its on an n900. on a full touchbook, the main choices, ai os, ubuntu, and love it or hate it, android, are all much better choices | 20:14 |
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| summel | i would rather use gentoo with kde4 then anything else currently availeable :P | 20:15 |
| nidO | gentoo works on it as well | 20:15 |
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| summel | but compiling takes sooo long :( | 20:15 |
| summel | esp on 600 MhZ >_> | 20:16 |
| lcuk | how on earth did people cope in days before 600mhz processors? | 20:16 |
| lcuk | i remember building apps and stuff on 7mhz amiga in c | 20:16 |
| hrw | lcuk: I used AmigaE | 20:17 |
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| luke-jr | summel: meh, works for me on N810 | 20:17 |
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| luke-jr | lcuk: code was less abstracted | 20:18 |
| luke-jr | and compiled faster | 20:18 |
| lcuk | abstraction should make code faster | 20:18 |
| lcuk | its not like functions are a new thing | 20:18 |
| luke-jr | abstraction just makes everything slower | 20:18 |
| luke-jr | I don't mean functions | 20:18 |
| luke-jr | I mean interfaces independent from implementation | 20:18 |
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| lcuk | luke-jr, ? | 20:21 |
| lcuk | you mean like pascal :D | 20:21 |
| luke-jr | ... | 20:21 |
| luke-jr | I mean APIs ;) | 20:21 |
| luke-jr | forward/backward compat | 20:21 |
| luke-jr | also, I think compilers are a bit faster if you use -O0 | 20:22 |
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| tg | hoi | 20:26 |
| tg | anyone knows what's the current status of qt perl bindings? | 20:27 |
| tg | i've just seen it listed as a gsoc project idea | 20:27 |
| luke-jr | probably non-existent | 20:28 |
| MiXu- | I don't see why anyone would want to write qt apps in perl =) | 20:28 |
| MiXu- | When there's Python | 20:29 |
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| * SpeedEvil wonders on qt-awk | 20:30 | |
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| t-tan | if you want perl code, just run the python code through an obfuscator :) | 20:31 |
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| luke-jr | MiXu-: because Python sucks? | 20:34 |
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| MiXu- | And Perl doesn't? :) | 20:35 |
| MiXu- | Í've done my share of perl | 20:35 |
| luke-jr | Perl is awesome | 20:35 |
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| luke-jr | but not meant for GUIs, I admit | 20:35 |
| MiXu- | Perl is awesome to a point | 20:35 |
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| MiXu- | But when you get to a point where you're dealing with thousands of lines of code it stops being cool. | 20:36 |
| MiXu- | For small stuff it's very useful | 20:36 |
| Kurppa_ | Hi everybody. Maemo newbie here. :-) | 20:37 |
| MiXu- | Hi Kurppa. Long time no see. | 20:37 |
| Kurppa_ | Oh hi. I remember you :-) | 20:38 |
| MiXu- | :D | 20:38 |
| * luke-jr finds Perl especially useful for writing compilers | 20:38 | |
| Arif_ | ~rob Noobmonk3y | 20:39 |
| * infobot strips Noobmonk3y of his nick, title and all rights & privileges and gives them to someone more worthy | 20:39 | |
| * Noobmonk3y farts | 20:39 | |
| Arif_ | I waz outside :O | 20:39 |
| * lcuk bottles it and releases it back up Noobmonk3y | 20:39 | |
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| Venomrush | just updated http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.2 | 20:40 |
| red | can't believe i didnt need this earlier | 20:40 |
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| red | but how on earth do you create a custom group in contacts and apply a different ringtone for those? | 20:40 |
| MohammadAG | Noobmonk3y, one more question, when I have an updated package I just upload it again and it puts it in the same directory right? | 20:40 |
| Arif_ | Venomrush, so pr1.2 is out? | 20:40 |
| Venomrush | more BUGS RESOLVED added | 20:41 |
| Arif_ | oh | 20:41 |
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| Venomrush | no :\ | 20:41 |
| Arif_ | nm then :( | 20:41 |
| Venomrush | i didn't say that | 20:41 |
| hrw | Venomrush: I do not like your way of fixing bugs | 20:41 |
| Venomrush | i don't fix bugs.. | 20:41 |
| hrw | bug 6933 for example | 20:41 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6933 Alarm times are shown wrong | 20:41 |
| Arif_ | # 7124 media player loses cover art if song changes while screen is locked | 20:42 |
| Arif_ | # eo | 20:42 |
| Arif_ | # 7353 RDS station name should not contain album (esp. when its unknown) | 20:42 |
| red | how important is the full battery before flashing btw? | 20:42 |
| Arif_ | huh? | 20:42 |
| Venomrush | i wasn't able to reproduce it on my end | 20:42 |
| Venomrush | with my N97 | 20:42 |
| Venomrush | so | 20:42 |
| Arif_ | whats the eo in there? | 20:42 |
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| Venomrush | it got truncated | 20:43 |
| Arif_ | what was it originally I wonder.. | 20:43 |
| hrw | Venomrush: now try to reproduce it again with test event | 20:43 |
| Venomrush | then feel free to reopen :) | 20:43 |
| hrw | Venomrush: this time I gave nearly 5 years for nokia to fix it | 20:43 |
| hrw | Venomrush: it is reopened and confirmed | 20:44 |
| Venomrush | cool | 20:44 |
| GAN900 | Ah, nice post from achipa. | 20:44 |
| Venomrush | think i got most of the stuff from http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Changelog_3.2010.02-8_vs_10.2010.09-3.txt into the PR1.2 wiki | 20:44 |
| red | wtf | 20:45 |
| red | no contact groups | 20:45 |
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| red | and this was labeled as a business device :) | 20:45 |
| hrw | Venomrush: drop list of pacakges maybe from wiki | 20:45 |
| hrw | Venomrush: or move them to end of page | 20:45 |
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| hrw | Venomrush: most users are interested in new features and fixed bugs rather | 20:46 |
| Venomrush | from the version number | 20:46 |
| Venomrush | it seems pr1.2 only contain fixes up until week 9 | 20:46 |
| Venomrush | so that's first week of march | 20:46 |
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| hrw | I will add new feature which rather no one found before :D | 20:47 |
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| Venomrush | i thought pr1.2 will have live wallpaper | 20:48 |
| Venomrush | apparently not anymore from the sdk | 20:49 |
| hrw | Venomrush: try to make better descriptions in wiki page - check my last changes | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | what page is this? | 20:50 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.2 | 20:50 |
| MohammadAG | what else gets talked about other than PR1.2 :) | 20:50 |
| Arif_ | Moogo | 20:50 |
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| hrw | Arif_: PeeGo? | 20:51 |
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| Venomrush | "* Status area is now reachable in portrait mode" | 20:52 |
| hrw | do we want bug numbers to be links? | 20:52 |
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| Venomrush | there is no 'portrait mode' you may want to be specific there | 20:52 |
| MohammadAG | Venomrush, I noticed that, but I thought it was a bug/forced rotation, who confirmed it? | 20:52 |
| Arif_ | status area? | 20:52 |
| MohammadAG | Arif_, the thing with the clock/availability etc.. | 20:53 |
| hrw | Venomrush: run phone app, rotate phone | 20:53 |
| Arif_ | yeah, that's so useful to have in portrait mode.... | 20:53 |
| hrw | Venomrush: you will have portrait mode right? | 20:53 |
| MohammadAG | Arif_, actually, it is | 20:53 |
| hrw | and in PR1.2 you will be able to use status area | 20:53 |
| Venomrush | "* Status area is now reachable in portrait mode" - this makes it sound phone support full portrait mode | 20:53 |
| Venomrush | *sounds like | 20:53 |
| Venomrush | change it to phont/browser specific | 20:54 |
| Venomrush | *phone | 20:54 |
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| MohammadAG | Venomrush, many apps have portrait support, not just phone/browser | 20:54 |
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| Venomrush | the 'official' :p | 20:55 |
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| zaheerm | blocks :) | 20:56 |
| * Arif_ wonders if other official apps will ever get portrait | 20:56 | |
| hrw | Venomrush: any app can be in portrait mode if is programmed properly | 20:56 |
| hrw | Arif_: doubt so | 20:56 |
| Arif_ | mhh | 20:56 |
| nidO | srsly why would they bother | 20:56 |
| Arif_ | I'll buy a Moogo device then :D | 20:56 |
| Arif_ | one with real speakers! | 20:57 |
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| zaheerm | i doubt they are going to spend the time doing the whole lifecycle UI design -> code to get portrait support for apps on maemo 5 | 20:57 |
| SpeedEvil | !bug 7160 | 20:57 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7160 Camera app hardcodes and requires FAT partition | 20:57 |
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| zaheerm | harmattan will no doubt be where they put effort into getting good portrait uis for apps | 20:57 |
| MohammadAG | <Arif_> one with real speakers! | 20:57 |
| MohammadAG | I think the EU doesn't allow 5800-like speakers | 20:58 |
| MohammadAG | the same EU that forced us to use microUSBs for charging | 20:58 |
| Arif_ | they don't have a regulation about speakers | 20:58 |
| Arif_ | only headphones | 20:58 |
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| TheOne | is there a key list for the channel bot? | 20:59 |
| MohammadAG | when a package is built, does it automatically get bumped to the latest version? | 20:59 |
| TheOne | for the infobot | 21:00 |
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| hrw | ok, updated page a bit and reformatted | 21:00 |
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| hrw | bye | 21:01 |
| *** hrw is now known as hrw|gone | 21:01 | |
| hrw|gone | have a nice rest of day and weekend | 21:01 |
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| * lcuk hides behind Noobmonk3y | 21:02 | |
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| * Arif_ yawns at PR1.2 | 21:03 | |
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| * MohammadAG hits Arif_ | 21:04 | |
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| * Arif_ throws search in media palyer at MohammadAG | 21:04 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | errr ""filemanager is now able to share *ANY* file...""??? | 21:04 |
| * nidO hates stupid users | 21:04 | |
| nidO | any file that it can access yes | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | lol | 21:05 |
| Venomrush | still can't see the extensions | 21:06 |
| Venomrush | annoying | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so this wording implies a major flaw been fixed while in fact shit remains the same | 21:06 |
| nidO | ? | 21:06 |
| Venomrush | it's not a proper file manager to me without this | 21:06 |
| Venomrush | and changing extensions.. | 21:06 |
| Venomrush | could be a settings like windows explorer to show extensions as an advanced option | 21:07 |
| nidO | have you tried gpe to see if that shows extensions? | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | WHF has none if the Nokia devel took a look at his TBP, to get inspiration from finder's "go to" function? | 21:07 |
| nidO | in fact, gpe does show extensions | 21:07 |
| lcuk | OMG WTF BBQ? | 21:07 |
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| MohammadAG | Venomrush, well they tried to make it easier and less risky for users to toy with their systems | 21:08 |
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| MohammadAG | suppose the filemanager showed / | 21:08 |
| MohammadAG | "I found a directory called /usr that contained a ****load files so I deleted it and my N900 doesn't boot up. HELP!!!!!!111!!!!!!!!!!!!! \ | 21:09 |
| MohammadAG | I'm disappointed in Nokia with the crap N900" | 21:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: you know how cute finder handles this? | 21:10 |
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| joppu | Delete your system32 to make your computer run faster | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | MohammadAG: btw user should lack perms to delete system stuff | 21:11 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer51, knowing nokia, the user would have perms on PR1.0 :p | 21:11 |
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| * noobmonk3y waves | 21:11 | |
| MohammadAG | joppu, just delete the whole windows directory | 21:11 |
| noobmonk3y | anyone fancy asking what should be a simple python question for me? | 21:11 |
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| nidO | asking it or answering it? | 21:11 |
| noobmonk3y | answering lol | 21:12 |
| MohammadAG | seems like asking | 21:12 |
| noobmonk3y | self.textBrowser.setText ("text") .... sets the text in a textbrowser.... | 21:12 |
| noobmonk3y | if i want to add loads of text.... how do i append, so not to create one huuuge line | 21:12 |
| C-S-B-N900 | woohoo. maemo just had fit with gpodder. | 21:12 |
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| noobmonk3y | lol C-S-B-N900 | 21:12 |
| * MohammadAG has no idea what that means | 21:12 | |
| MohammadAG | noobmonk3y, could be \? | 21:12 |
| noobmonk3y | erm, i get the new line part | 21:13 |
| MohammadAG | like in terminal | 21:13 |
| andrewfblack_ | would it be wrong to charge people to build their themes for them if they are to lazy to learn to do it them selfs? | 21:13 |
| noobmonk3y | but thinking more of splitting the line in the coed? | 21:13 |
| noobmonk3y | code* | 21:13 |
| lizardo | noobmonk3y: "your " + "long" + "text" , or put it on some file and use open("file").read() | 21:13 |
| * Arif_ waits for "share" in media player and falls asleep | 21:13 | |
| MohammadAG | andrewfblack_, imo, no, since they can build it alone | 21:13 |
| lcuk | noobmonk3y, coed? | 21:13 |
| noobmonk3y | ooo lizardo - good idea | 21:13 |
| noobmonk3y | code* | 21:13 |
| noobmonk3y | lcuk - I r Ill | 21:13 |
| MohammadAG | andrewfblack_, basically, xchat do it, Windows version is paid, linux one isn't (and it's open source) | 21:13 |
| noobmonk3y | and can't type but thats usual | 21:13 |
| lcuk | i am tired | 21:13 |
| MohammadAG | does* | 21:13 |
| lcuk | heh | 21:14 |
| lcuk | Milhouse, :D | 21:14 |
| noobmonk3y | lcuk - thats cos u dont sleep | 21:14 |
| *** dazo is now known as dazo_afk | 21:14 | |
| lcuk | i cant type either | 21:14 |
| andrewfblack_ | MohammadAG: thas true | 21:14 |
| lcuk | noobmonk3y, i sleep occasionally | 21:14 |
| MohammadAG | andrewfblack_, do I get half the income for saying yes? :P | 21:14 |
| andrewfblack_ | MohammadAG: lol I don't know if I'll do it but I should lol | 21:15 |
| * lcuk considers investing in cloning companies | 21:15 | |
| andrewfblack_ | AndrewFBlack's Theme Build Service lol | 21:15 |
| lcuk | but i need money first | 21:15 |
| Arif_ | what company would you clone | 21:16 |
| lcuk | i would clone myself | 21:16 |
| lcuk | so one of me can sleep | 21:16 |
| * noobmonk3y eeeeeeks | 21:16 | |
| lcuk | whilst the other does job | 21:16 |
| lcuk | and another can work on liqbase | 21:17 |
| MohammadAG | andrewfblack_, if you've got the time why not | 21:17 |
| noobmonk3y | takeway - lol ordered it an hour ago, better go get it! | 21:17 |
| MohammadAG | andrewfblack_, but I can imagine someone doing it for free just to make your service look bad :p | 21:17 |
| andrewfblack_ | MohammadAG: the effect will still be the same | 21:17 |
| FIQ | uhm | 21:18 |
| * andrewfblack_ has been temped to do some paid themes but is to nice | 21:18 | |
| FIQ | ok, rhe sms/calling features isn't the most interesting thing in the phone, but it really should be a "Respond" button somewhere at a SMS | 21:18 |
| TheOne | bye | 21:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | damn, 4h of UMTS seriously drained my bat to some 40% | 21:20 |
| lcuk | AndrewFBlack, done cleanly with a decent set of correctly sourced materials i dont think anyone would complain at you :) | 21:20 |
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| lcuk | your themes kick ass | 21:20 |
| MohammadAG | anyway to uninstall something that was installed from a setup.py file? | 21:21 |
| MohammadAG | FIQ, huh? | 21:21 |
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| MohammadAG | the SMS feature is the best one I've seen on any device | 21:21 |
| andrewfblack_ | lcuk: You talking about my idea to charge people to build their themes or the idea about selling some themes? | 21:21 |
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| lcuk | mm both | 21:23 |
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| lcuk | soryr i got distracted looking at laughingstok's photo album | 21:23 |
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| FIQ | the sms | 21:23 |
| FIQ | watching an incoming sms | 21:24 |
| FIQ | missing "respond" button | 21:24 |
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| FIQ | only delete, copy, forward | 21:24 |
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| C-S-B-N900 | any reason lirc doesnt start automatically? | 21:27 |
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| MohammadAG | what's /dev/pts? | 21:28 |
| MohammadAG | FIQ, err, why do you click on the SMS in the conversation? | 21:29 |
| MohammadAG | just type in the white box and click the send (enter) button | 21:29 |
| FIQ | i didn't? | 21:29 |
| FIQ | uhm | 21:29 |
| FIQ | ok, maaaybe i did. :P | 21:29 |
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| lcuk | are there any v4l2 examples which people have tested to work with n900 | 21:31 |
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| dottedmag | Is there ssh-agent and askpass dialog for Maemo? | 21:35 |
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| MohammadAG | any tmo mods online? | 21:37 |
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| cehteh | tmo mods? | 21:41 |
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| MohammdAG_ | noobmonk3y, err, bugtrackers aren't auto created? | 21:47 |
| ptl | <question type="newbie" flavor="troll">Why doesn't maemo support MMS? Why doesn't it have videocall? How about voice guide GPS? When is PR1.2 out? Why doesn't it have a capacitive screen? Why no multitouch? Couldn't it be thinner? How can I assign a ringtone to a contact? How do I do Skype video? How do I run java programs?</question> | 21:47 |
| ptl | Did I leave something out? | 21:47 |
| |R | troll are very creative, so something is always left out :P | 21:48 |
| Kurppa_ | Why does the battery last so short time? | 21:48 |
| ptl | Maybe we could do a poll, what's your preferred newbie question? | 21:48 |
| ptl | yes, good | 21:48 |
| MohammdAG_ | ptl, can we upload porn made on the N900 on tmo? | 21:48 |
| Kurppa_ | Why is the UI so slow? | 21:48 |
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| Kurppa_ | Why does it leak so much memory? | 21:48 |
| Kurppa_ | Why is it so fat? | 21:49 |
| MohammdAG_ | why is the N900 called the N900? Why not N850? | 21:49 |
| ptl | leak memory? That does not seem like a newbie question | 21:49 |
| ptl | lol | 21:49 |
| Kurppa_ | Ah, sorry. | 21:49 |
| odin_ | Why does my (Symbian / iPhone / Andriod) application not work on it ? | 21:49 |
| ptl | that's ok, we just change the type to "averagely informed user" | 21:49 |
| Funnyfacemob | probably because they found the GSM/UMTS capabilities significant enough to name it that way | 21:50 |
| odin_ | Why does it break when I drop it on the floor ? | 21:50 |
| Funnyfacemob | but well model numbers never make any sense anyway | 21:50 |
| Funnyfacemob | it's a sales gimmick | 21:51 |
| Kurppa_ | Why can't I see the display on sunny weather? | 21:51 |
| andrewfblack_ | MohammdAG_: No on the Porn | 21:51 |
| andrewfblack_ | < TMO Mod | 21:51 |
| ptl | Ok | 21:51 |
| Kurppa_ | Why is youtube so slow :( | 21:51 |
| ptl | Is there any way for me to post a poll on talk.maemo.org? | 21:51 |
| MohammdAG_ | andrewfblack_, just making fun of the thread on TMO ;) | 21:51 |
| Funnyfacemob | my nokia 5200 and 6300 are exactly the same devices | 21:51 |
| ptl | so that I can post this | 21:51 |
| ptl | I'm looking some way to do it. | 21:51 |
| MohammdAG_ | andrewfblack_, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48336 | 21:52 |
| odin_ | Why isn't there going to be a Meego version for my N900 ? | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | eh | 21:52 |
| odin_ | :P | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:52 |
| Kurppa_ | Haha | 21:52 |
| andrewfblack_ | MohammdAG_: I was hoping lol did you notice I told him to post a photo of his wife then we would decided if he could post video or not | 21:52 |
| MohammdAG_ | haha yeah now I remember, thought you didn't see it ;) | 21:53 |
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| odin_ | Where can I get this Angry Bird expansion pack ? ... When can I get ..... ? | 21:54 |
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| sivang | hi all | 21:54 |
| sivang | how do I sync all my data from N900 to N97 Mini ? | 21:54 |
| MohammdAG_ | andrewfblack_, can you please change the title of http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44293 [ANNOUNCE]Noor (Quran app) now in extras-devel? | 21:54 |
| sivang | how does that syncML thingo works ? | 21:54 |
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| andrewfblack_ | MohammdAG_: I only Mod Themes and Design Sections talk to edgar2, Flandry about application section | 21:55 |
| MohammdAG_ | I'm assuming you just pinged them? :) | 21:56 |
| andrewfblack_ | MohammdAG_: don't ask why we don't have global power only Tim does | 21:56 |
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| MohammdAG_ | andrewfblack_, I'm not haha, I mod on a PS3 site and we have the same 'limits' | 21:56 |
| odin_ | what was the outcome of the meego meeting the other day, unfortunately I had a late night at the data centre, maybe I should track down the recording | 21:56 |
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| odin_ | I've been totally out of the loop on anything for the past 2 months, right about the time the announcement came | 21:57 |
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| Arif_ | we're still waiting for an useful firmware update :P | 21:58 |
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| Kurppa_ | It will probably be a long wait :-) | 21:58 |
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| andrewfblack_ | what up GAN900 | 21:59 |
| odin_ | was that comment to me Arif_ ? I am on 3.2010.02-8 is this PR1.1.1 ? | 21:59 |
| Arif_ | yeah =} | 21:59 |
| odin_ | there have not been many software updates in the past 2 months either that I remember.... | 21:59 |
| odin_ | is there a PR1.1.2 due out ? with Qt 4.7 is it ? | 22:00 |
| * Arif_ doesn't know anything about Moogo so won't comment on that =P | 22:00 | |
| GAN900 | andrewfblack_, installing door sensors and bemoaning the fact that home improvement stores never have what you need. | 22:00 |
| Kurppa_ | 4.6 | 22:00 |
| MohammdAG_ | wasn't it 4..5 | 22:00 |
| MohammdAG_ | 4.6* | 22:00 |
| MohammdAG_ | nvm | 22:00 |
| Arif_ | 1.2 should have 4.6.2 | 22:00 |
| MohammdAG_ | 1.2 has* :) | 22:00 |
| Arif_ | there is no 1.2 :P | 22:00 |
| MohammdAG_ | there is an SDK | 22:00 |
| odin_ | ok its 4.5.3~git20090723-0maemo6+0m5 that is currently on my N900 | 22:01 |
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| andrewfblack_ | GAN900: of cource not why would they have it | 22:01 |
| odin_ | is the new Qt incompatible to be mixed at runtime ? i.e. why can't 4.5.3 be put in /opt/maemo/lib for legacy apps ? | 22:01 |
| GAN900 | andrewfblack_, dunno, silly me. | 22:01 |
| C-S-B | gmail down for anyone else? | 22:03 |
| C-S-B | says its just me at http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/ | 22:03 |
| andrewfblack_ | My new door locks my wife called thinks I'm a nerd but I know I am http://link.schlage.com/Pages/home.aspx | 22:03 |
| Kurppa_ | Qt 4.6.2~git20100212-0maemo1 says this thing. | 22:03 |
| odin_ | ignoring the problem is memory footprint, I understand the binary linkage incompatibility (although usually thats a major version bump of the DSO version usually /usr/lib/libQtCore.so.4.5.3 | 22:04 |
| Kurppa_ | New-ish. | 22:04 |
| odin_ | Kurppa_, what "thing" have you got there then ? | 22:04 |
| Kurppa_ | Never mind that. | 22:05 |
| Kurppa_ | Just ignore my comments. | 22:05 |
| odin_ | I guess you must know for sure its going to be a long wait for PR1.1.2 | 22:05 |
| odin_ | if you have 4.6.2 on your "thing" already LOLs | 22:06 |
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| adisbladis | Is there any way to get your n900 internal storage be something other then vfat? | 22:07 |
| odin_ | so mixing Qt 4.5 and 4.6 at runtime is not possible because ? | 22:07 |
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| adisbladis | I want some kind of ext file system but my mkfs.ext2 is failing | 22:07 |
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| odin_ | in theory sure, if you don't need Windows/Mac storage support via USB but most people like to keep that feature | 22:07 |
| odin_ | you are messing with /dev/mmcblk0p1 (as your peril) ? | 22:08 |
| Kurppa_ | If it's running in mass storage mode, I wonder if it's possible to just change eMMC to NTFS. | 22:08 |
| Kurppa_ | Then use the custom ntfs-3g kernel module to make N900 also understand the contents. | 22:08 |
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| odin_ | then that would really mess up with the N900 own view of it, isn't NTFS still "not ready for production status" in kernel ? | 22:09 |
| ptl | my eMMC is on ext3 | 22:09 |
| Kurppa_ | I understand there is already some custom kernel package in maemo-devel which provides this ntfs-3g. | 22:09 |
| ptl | I had to modify a couple of init scripts | 22:09 |
| ptl | for it to work | 22:09 |
| Kurppa_ | But it is for PR1.1 kernel. | 22:09 |
| Kurppa_ | Can you export it using mass storage mode, so linux can see it? | 22:10 |
| odin_ | have you backup up content of /home/user/MyDocs to /home/foobar, then unmounted it first adisbladis ? umount /home/user/MyDocs | 22:10 |
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| adisbladis | odin_: Im trying to do it from my pc | 22:11 |
| adisbladis | odin_: Not the phone | 22:12 |
| ptl | Kurppa_: Yes, I can, and it automounts and works perfectly under linux | 22:12 |
| Kurppa_ | Very nice. | 22:12 |
| adisbladis | It just destroyed my old vfat partition | 22:12 |
| odin_ | but isn't it mounted inside the device already as well as ? | 22:13 |
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| adisbladis | odin_: Nope | 22:13 |
| adisbladis | It might be the phone trying to automount it as soon as it detects it and therefore freezing? | 22:13 |
| ptl | odin_: when it's in mass storage mode, both MMCs (internal and external, MyDocs and my /media/mmc1) are unmounted in the phone and mounted in my Linux | 22:14 |
| odin_ | yes Im not sure of the details of how the /home/user/MyDocs is mounted when your engage mass storage mode | 22:14 |
| ptl | odin_: and when I unplug it, it correctly remounts them in the phone | 22:14 |
| MohammadAG | **** I turned off the N900 while installing a package | 22:14 |
| odin_ | ideally there should be an interface that provides a VFAT view of any FS for mass-storage mode | 22:14 |
| ptl | but as I said, I modified two scripts... mainly /usr/bin/mmc-mount | 22:14 |
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| MohammadAG | hopefully dpkg --configure -a will fix it | 22:15 |
| ptl | MohammadAG: apt-get -f install, then reinstall the package | 22:15 |
| odin_ | so the N900 never needs to unmount, I had this convo before in here, this would allow ext3 for on-disc/mmc format but provide VFAT via to USB at the same time | 22:15 |
| MohammadAG | I'll check with dpkg first :) | 22:15 |
| Kurppa_ | I hope they will get rid of this rootfs and /home/user hassle. | 22:16 |
| ptl | odin_: my /usr/bin/mmc-mount script is the following: | 22:17 |
| MohammadAG | Kurppa_, nokia? how? | 22:17 |
| ptl | oops | 22:17 |
| ptl | sorry | 22:17 |
| ptl | it's /usr/sbin/mmc-mount | 22:17 |
| ptl | contents: | 22:17 |
| ptl | #!/bin/sh | 22:17 |
| ptl | mount -t vfat -o $3,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,noatime,nodiratime,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0133,rodir "$1" "$2" > /dev/null || mount -o $3,noauto,noatime,nodiratime "$1" "$2" > /dev/null | 22:17 |
| ptl | I just added the part with the "||" and after. | 22:17 |
| ptl | it tries to mount as vfat, if it can't, it tries again with type autodetected. | 22:18 |
| odin_ | yes the rootfs issue is a major one as to contributing for me | 22:18 |
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| odin_ | i.e. I worked out how much time I would be spending maintaining that issue in order to release packages and then thought about what the reward for it was, when Im sure the next model will have a bigger OneNAND/eMMC | 22:19 |
| ml-mobile | it might have 512M if they've already started | 22:20 |
| Kurppa_ | I mean the rootfs in N900 was so small. | 22:20 |
| odin_ | remind us of the reasons for root being on the OneNAND, was it performance ? it has a software based wear-leveler provided by part of UBIFS's infrastructure, but remind me what benefit we get again | 22:20 |
| cehteh | small isnt the problem, the way its set up is | 22:20 |
| Kurppa_ | They fixed it partly using that /opt, but there are still some problems. | 22:20 |
| ml-mobile | speed | 22:21 |
| asj | odin_: I'm guess it's a very high number of read/write cycles | 22:21 |
| odin_ | speed of what ? read's ? write's ? | 22:21 |
| ml-mobile | OneNAND is much faster than eMMC | 22:21 |
| ml-mobile | both | 22:21 |
| ml-mobile | the thing is connected directly to the CPU as well | 22:21 |
| odin_ | and the I/O stats of the FS indicate what life expectancy of the flash ? | 22:21 |
| odin_ | so why isn't it used as a cache? main rootfs on eMMC is loaded into OneNAND | 22:22 |
| odin_ | writes back to eMMC are journaled through OneNAND, something like that | 22:22 |
| odin_ | the /tmp and such dirs are 100% on OneNAND | 22:22 |
| asj | odin_: eMMC may only have 10,000 writes, I don't know the part | 22:23 |
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| ml-mobile | erases* | 22:23 |
| ShadowJK | "something like that" isn't a viable argument you take to managers :-) | 22:23 |
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| ShadowJK | Hopefully LogFS will be ready for the next device, it should have performance almost as good as ubifs on onenand | 22:24 |
| odin_ | I thought modern flash was in the order of 100k+ | 22:24 |
| ShadowJK | (although logfs author did say it'd be slower on emmc... oh well) | 22:24 |
| ptl | what about "something unlike that"? | 22:24 |
| odin_ | no the point I am making is | 22:24 |
| asj | odin_: depends on the device | 22:24 |
| ptl | It would appeal to the NIH Syndrome | 22:24 |
| ml-mobile | SLC nand at higher lithographies | 22:24 |
| ShadowJK | slower than logfs on onenand i mean | 22:24 |
| ShadowJK | ml-mobile, the speed thing is not really a SLC vs MLC issue... endurance, yes | 22:25 |
| odin_ | the OneNAND resource is a resource, if its purpose it to increase life expectancy and performance because it has a high a access speeds and also high number of erases possible, also maybe at smaller graundlarity | 22:25 |
| odin_ | then treat it as such in software, make it a cache/journal for a real logical rootfs which is really back by eMMC | 22:25 |
| odin_ | *backed by eMMC, its just that some useful often read/written sector have an alias in OneNAND | 22:26 |
| ml-mobile | sure, but what are you going to use to achieve that? | 22:26 |
| odin_ | software | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | There are no such drivers right now | 22:26 |
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| ml-mobile | no shit | 22:26 |
| ShadowJK | I'd rather invest in making one of the nonsucky filesystems ready.. | 22:26 |
| Kurppa_ | Cost-wise, if the rootfs is situated in eMMC, I don't think they would even add an OneNAND chip there. | 22:26 |
| odin_ | well this is the issue... I do not know the commercials on future OneNAND use | 22:27 |
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| microlith | why am I typing on my N900 when I can use a real keyboard | 22:27 |
| odin_ | are we going to get mode for less money ? is it likely the next device(s) will use OneNAND, is it here to stay etc... | 22:27 |
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| microlith | OneNAND is here to stay, I suspect | 22:27 |
| odin_ | if the next device in 2 years will have a 2Gb OneNAND for the same price point then there is no problem staying as-is | 22:28 |
| Kurppa_ | A big priority of a big company is to push production costs down. I guess only future will tell though :-) | 22:28 |
| MohammadAG | how do I patch a folder (with files and subdirectories) from a .diff file? | 22:28 |
| microlith | odin_: well, the solution for that will be decided in MeeGo | 22:28 |
| odin_ | if the next device is also going to have a 256Mb OneNAND because of price/problems/whatever then a solution to the rootfs needs to be found | 22:28 |
| ShadowJK | the solution is ./configure --prefix=/opt/maemo ;D | 22:29 |
| microlith | I suspect the next defvice will have at least 512M | 22:29 |
| microlith | -f | 22:29 |
| odin_ | no I've looked at that | 22:29 |
| odin_ | its too costly to maintain from my PoV, I want a regular Unix system single main rootfs logical view | 22:29 |
| Kurppa_ | There is still the problem of that 2GB partition. It's too small. | 22:29 |
| RST38h | Steve Jobs and Eric Schmidt Spotted Together Again ! | 22:29 |
| RST38h | oh-no-they-are-gonna-mate | 22:29 |
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| odin_ | I'm not going to spend hours doing "optification" for no net benifit | 22:29 |
| odin_ | Im sure others will spend that time | 22:30 |
| microlith | odin_: optification is as easy as ShadowJK just said | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | odin_, you know things like *BSD don't put user installed packages in /usr/*? It's a linuxism really :) | 22:30 |
| RST38h | odin: optification takes <30-40 mins | 22:30 |
| lcuk | if only! | 22:30 |
| RST38h | odin: even less if you want to be messy about it | 22:30 |
| asj | interesting, the OneNAND part I pulled up is listed at "one year retention" after 100k prog/erase cycles | 22:30 |
| odin_ | how are you optifying locale's ? | 22:30 |
| microlith | consider that no other devices have to deal with this issue | 22:30 |
| asj | glad it has error correction built in | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | microlith, uh, they just have "ran out of space :(" instead of "do this to not run out of space" | 22:31 |
| * lcuk raises a glass to maemo | 22:31 | |
| Kurppa_ | lcuk: cheers. | 22:31 |
| * microlith hopes PR1.2 resolves the annoying CPU eating behavior of the background services | 22:32 | |
| Kurppa_ | Or MeeGo, as they will probably call it. | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | lol :D | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | MeeGo instance :) | 22:32 |
| lcuk | whos seen the latest indiana jones movie | 22:33 |
| microlith | ugh, don't remind me | 22:33 |
| lcuk | and without teasers, is it any good | 22:33 |
| dotblank | lcuk, there are only 3 of them | 22:33 |
| lcuk | the "new" one | 22:33 |
| Kurppa_ | I would say it's no good. | 22:33 |
| ShadowJK | As it is now, you just have to try download something while trying to browse the web.. emmc does not like more than one app accessing it :) | 22:33 |
| dotblank | lcuk, What no one.. | 22:33 |
| dotblank | new one* | 22:33 |
| Kurppa_ | Just my subjective opinion. | 22:33 |
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| odin_ | why is /usr on OneNAND, really it seems that /tmp /var and such should be there, i.e. putting packages into /usr isn't really the issue | 22:33 |
| lcuk | i dunno | 22:33 |
| lcuk | tracy has dvd downstairs and we are watching soon | 22:34 |
| ShadowJK | And stuff that uses databases is also pretty slow.. It takes something like a second for gpodder to sync its database due to the slow I/O :/ | 22:34 |
| lcuk | i just want to know if its as good as old ones | 22:34 |
| Kurppa_ | ShadowJK: there will be a fix to that. :-) | 22:34 |
| dotblank | It isnt no indiana jone's I ever heard of | 22:34 |
| Kurppa_ | Download I mean. | 22:34 |
| odin_ | I must confess I am certainly not at fan of Sun's way, which I guess maybe like BSDs way | 22:34 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, i tried doing database work | 22:34 |
| lcuk | and got a massive sketch db created | 22:34 |
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| dotblank | did someone get jack to work? | 22:34 |
| lcuk | but over a threshhold it lost its fluidity | 22:34 |
| ShadowJK | Basically a 4K write on emmc is as costly as a 256k write.. And a database update is a bunch of small writes all over the place.. | 22:35 |
| ShadowJK | and while it's doing those writes all reads are blocked.. | 22:35 |
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| lcuk | ShadowJK, ok | 22:35 |
| ShadowJK | (and I assume no filesystem overhead here, which there's tons of) | 22:36 |
| lcuk | so if there was a database planned around that sort of limitation | 22:36 |
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| lcuk | could it be fast | 22:36 |
| Kurppa_ | Sounds really slow. | 22:36 |
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| ShadowJK | lcuk, yes | 22:36 |
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| lcuk | so how would you spec something like that | 22:36 |
| lcuk | and is sqlite or similar able to have this engine underneath | 22:36 |
| ShadowJK | Just make it one big journal | 22:36 |
| ShadowJK | doubt it | 22:36 |
| lcuk | im thinking about a regular front end | 22:36 |
| lcuk | and a speedy backend | 22:36 |
| lcuk | for compatability | 22:37 |
| ShadowJK | The "real solution" would be a filesystem aware of the special properties of emmc | 22:37 |
| odin_ | anyhow, what is the answer to optification of locale files ? death by 100 sym-links ? | 22:37 |
| ShadowJK | odin_, iirc entire locale directory gets optified in PR1.2.. but that's just a "rumor" I heard :) | 22:38 |
| lcuk | odin_, | 22:38 |
| Kurppa_ | Let's hope the next Maemo version will be designed for that. I know it is now too late for Maemo 5 at least :-) | 22:38 |
| lcuk | no | 22:38 |
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| lcuk | but whoever said up there about speed is likely right | 22:38 |
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| lcuk | arent the locales ok to stay where they are | 22:38 |
| lcuk | they are relatively small, required to be fast | 22:39 |
| lcuk | etc | 22:39 |
| lcuk | i know theres a lot of them | 22:39 |
| odin_ | in /usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/foobar.mo | 22:39 |
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| ShadowJK | nilfs2 is really speedy on my sheevaplug's attached USB flash drives.. does my "copy 2 gigs of squid spool" test in 16 minutes.. btrfs 46 minutes, ext2/ext3 110 minutes | 22:39 |
| odin_ | making them optional would help, i.e. apt/dpkg doesn't seem to support that concept to say my system doesn't need certain locale because I disabled all by the language I want | 22:40 |
| ShadowJK | unfortunately nilfs2 also generates huge amounts of read/write that makes it unsuitable for production use on flash storage imo | 22:40 |
| odin_ | what does BSD do with locale then ? | 22:40 |
| odin_ | is it glibc based too isn't it ? or is that just one flavor | 22:41 |
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| ShadowJK | odin_, so on NetBSD everything user installed beyond the base system goes into /usr/pkg | 22:42 |
| ShadowJK | So presumable locale would end up in /usr/pkg/share/locale | 22:42 |
| ShadowJK | and the binary in /usr/pkg/bin | 22:42 |
| ShadowJK | etc | 22:42 |
| odin_ | you mean /usr/pkg is an alternate root like --prefix in GNU autoconf | 22:42 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 22:42 |
| odin_ | ok this I alread been doing as /opt/maemo/share/... eetc... | 22:43 |
| janneg | ShadowJK: have you tried ext4? that was around factor 5 faster handling gentoo's portage tree. on a traditionell hdd though | 22:43 |
| ShadowJK | janneg, yeah it was only twice as slow as nilfs2 ;) | 22:43 |
| ShadowJK | 30 minutes or so iirc.. | 22:44 |
| janneg | faster sa btrfs | 22:44 |
| ShadowJK | yeah it was faster than btrfs | 22:44 |
| ShadowJK | and I even had btrfs' ssd mode on.. not that it made any difference :P | 22:44 |
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| odin_ | ok I have a debhelper-5.0.42.20100131.dlm.diff to fix it for optification purpose in maemo | 22:45 |
| cpasjuste | someone to take my n64 work to continue ? | 22:46 |
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| odin_ | so I also do a diff for debhelper-7.0.15 which was requested then it needs to get into the SDK repo I believe to be any use to anyone | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | microlith: odin_: Kurppa_: oneNAND is a part of the OMAP SoC aiui. This is very unlikely to change, as TI had to produce a customized SoC for Nokia | 22:50 |
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| ShadowJK | I thought the RAM and onenand was in same PoP ontop of omap3 soc | 22:51 |
| odin_ | DocScrutinizer51, yes understood on that, my question was over the future.. as in is it getting cheaper? how fast? how long to double size? how long to be 4Gb which is large enough for a flat rootfs layout | 22:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's what I say | 22:51 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK, the onenand is soldered onto the omap - which also has solme internal Ram and flash | 22:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | or I may be misreading stuff | 22:52 |
| odin_ | why is swap space on eMMC when OneNAND has massive speed and erase potential ? | 22:52 |
| ShadowJK | iirc beagle has/had same 256ram/256nand configuration too | 22:53 |
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| ShadowJK | odin_, linux doesn't know how to swap on nand | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | odin_: you,re more likely to see a system booting from eMMC, rather than 2GB nand | 22:53 |
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| Kurppa_ | OneNAND was too small to house wwap space anyway. | 22:53 |
| odin_ | well there is also the issue of 1Gb swap in N900 configuration and OneNAND total size | 22:53 |
| Kurppa_ | swap* | 22:53 |
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| ShadowJK | Well, there's a driver that emulates emmc ontop of nand, but the end result is something even slower than the emmc :) | 22:53 |
| ShadowJK | I had this idea for a loop driver to run ontop of emmc to make swap faster.. but alas I'm no kernel coder :) | 22:54 |
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| * SpeedEvil ponders going to sleep. | 22:55 | |
| Kurppa_ | I'll do the same. Night folks :-) | 22:55 |
| odin_ | is it midnight there? gnite those off | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | basically /boot should be a partiton on Nand and be mounted to / on eMMC | 22:56 |
| odin_ | well yes the whole boot loader and the resources I agree but for N900 24Mb should give it plenty | 22:57 |
| odin_ | how much space on /var and /tmp do you need at runtime? | 22:57 |
| ShadowJK | depends on whether you have extras-devel enabled or not :D | 22:57 |
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| odin_ | sigh | 22:58 |
| odin_ | nice and scalable engineering | 22:58 |
| ShadowJK | We didn't even have optification in maemo4 :) | 22:58 |
| * ShadowJK didn't run out of space on / either | 22:58 | |
| RST38h | but we did have data-on-mmc | 22:58 |
| ShadowJK | so I dunno what you guys are doing ;) | 22:59 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, yeah, but ~ was still on nand too | 22:59 |
| ShadowJK | now /home is on emmc | 22:59 |
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| odin_ | so 128Mb for writable parts of the FS /var /tmp etc... that leaves 104Mb of OneNAND to use for rootfs journal / performance read-cache from rootfs backed pages | 23:02 |
| odin_ | I believe EXT3/4 outsource their journal support, so its possible to write a journal specific device driver, such as a journal to OneNAND or UBIFS partition | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | I'd want to experiment with putting a gigantic ext3/ext4 journal on emmc.. and unwind it when device is idle.. | 23:04 |
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| ShadowJK | the journal due to its very nature should operate shitloads faster on emmc than the actual filesystem itself :-) | 23:04 |
| ShadowJK | So you'd want it reversed... if the sizes of the devices were reversed too, of course :( | 23:05 |
| odin_ | why gigantic ? ext3 is designed to cope with a lot of dirty block on journal but not yet flushed? | 23:05 |
| c-s-b-n900 | wl1251: ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up | 23:06 |
| odin_ | I dont understand you logic, to me you want your journal read/write speed to be fast and you want it on media which can take the erase battering over the lifetime of the device | 23:06 |
| c-s-b-n900 | this is a pain... | 23:06 |
| MiXu- | anyone installed the crash reporter? | 23:06 |
| MiXu- | it's complaining about missing packages | 23:06 |
| odin_ | you want journal read/write fast because all data updates are pushed through it, you also want something to cancel out redundant journal updates when its flushed | 23:07 |
| Arif_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48336 | 23:07 |
| Arif_ | lol | 23:07 |
| odin_ | and there is no pressure to flush it fast unless you are running out of journal room | 23:07 |
| ShadowJK | odin_, I want the journal to be big because writing to journal is (presumably) entirely sequential, which is fast on emmc | 23:07 |
| odin_ | MiXu-, yes I have crash reporter installed, what is hte missing packages? | 23:07 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, only if you write out 256MB at a time, but OneNAND granduality is much smaller isn't it ? | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | 256k | 23:08 |
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| odin_ | ShadowJK, presumable solid state does not care for random or sequential writes the issue is the page blockage the lack of pipeline | 23:08 |
| ShadowJK | It does care | 23:09 |
| odin_ | opps yes my magnitude a little off there well corrected | 23:09 |
| MiXu- | odin: libhildon1, libosso1, and a few others | 23:09 |
| ShadowJK | Basically on emmc, a random 4k write gets translated by the emmc internally to a 256k read-modify-erase-write cycle | 23:09 |
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| odin_ | so you are going to hold onto 256Kb of dirty data in memory to optimised the write to journal... but we want it in persistent storage ASAP.. so the data is safe | 23:09 |
| odin_ | MiXu-, which version of crash reporter are you trying to install ? what is your N900 software version ? | 23:10 |
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| ShadowJK | It's the "erase" function which has 256k granularity, writing onto an erased block can usually be done in 4k chunks | 23:10 |
| ShadowJK | So doing several 4k writes sequentially is much faster than 4k random writes | 23:11 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, yes and OneNAND page granduality is much smaller, in the order of 4Kb is it not (been a few months since I looked) | 23:11 |
| MiXu- | odin_: I have PR1.1.1 and the reporter is 1.29-0m5 | 23:11 |
| ShadowJK | Well you have the same erase size granularity, I'd think, but you can manage it directly yourself | 23:11 |
| ShadowJK | And take advantage of half-erased blocks, etc | 23:11 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, I thought page grandulaity was a hardware limitation, large pages in eMCC and small in OneNAND by hardware design | 23:11 |
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| ShadowJK | Well the FTL part of emmc effectively makes it 256k for everything | 23:12 |
| odin_ | MiXu-, I have 1.27+0m5 installed myself can you not go back a version, its possible internal nokia guys have released a crash reporter for PR1.1.2 since it is a development repo after all | 23:12 |
| ShadowJK | But with onenand you don't have a braindead FTL, the FTL is in the kernel, and in the case of ubifs, it's very clever | 23:13 |
| ShadowJK | You know those awesome Intel X-25M SSD drives? | 23:13 |
| odin_ | MiXu-, "apt-get install crash-reporter=1.27+0m5" I think | 23:13 |
| ShadowJK | They have an ARM processor in it, and some 64megs of RAM to do the "clever" stuff that makes random writes fast and not stutter :) | 23:14 |
| odin_ | X-25M nope | 23:14 |
| ShadowJK | and the ram isn't for caching | 23:14 |
| odin_ | well it sounds good but no use for the mobile market | 23:14 |
| ShadowJK | It's easiest if you think of flash as a tape recorder when you write to it, and as RAM when you read from it ;p | 23:15 |
| odin_ | but I still don't get your big ext journal to eMMC, the file system isn't designed for huge journals and putting the write page wear on eMMC is just one thing that needs to be aboived? | 23:15 |
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| odin_ | avoided | 23:16 |
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| ShadowJK | write wear is overrated I think | 23:16 |
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| odin_ | eMMC = slow performance read/write, big granularity, low max write/erase per segment | 23:16 |
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| odin_ | OneNAND = fast performance read/write, fine/small granularity, high max write/erase per segment | 23:17 |
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| MiXu- | odin_: it worked. thanks :) | 23:17 |
| odin_ | no contest where an ext3/ext4 journal should go | 23:17 |
| ShadowJK | The way I've abused my flash drives.. if wear was an actual concern they'd be dead by now :) | 23:17 |
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| ShadowJK | constant 3megabytes/sec write for ~2 months now, still alive :P | 23:18 |
| odin_ | Im supprised they are not like slow dynamic RAM, needing a "refresh" within some many days/months to stay alive | 23:18 |
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| ml-mobile | flash is getting to that point | 23:19 |
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| odin_ | does linux kernel have any logic to optimize journal playback? for example, data blocks that have been overwritten multiple times | 23:19 |
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| ShadowJK | not sure :) | 23:19 |
| odin_ | would show up in an uncommitted journal.. we only want perform a single write at the end, and optimize out the previous ones | 23:20 |
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| ShadowJK | odin_, the idea about having big journal is that when you use the device, writes go to journal sequentially, which makes it fast and low-latency.. then when it's idle it could play back the journal and do all the slow high-latency random writes :) | 23:20 |
| odin_ | what I'm trying to get at is OneNAND is ideal for that, to take the hits reducing the load on the eMMC all the kernel needs to track is the device/block of the dirty data in the journal | 23:21 |
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| odin_ | well take the example of a "directory" or "inode" page, this must get hit multiple times as a normal file grows | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | under heavy random write load I've seen emmc take 500msec PER REQUEST, the user complains about "choppy" graphics on screen, then the I/O queue grows to some 10 seconds in length and the user complains the device hangs :) | 23:21 |
| odin_ | so does Linux kernel already optimize out the multiple writes to the same sector(s) or merge them into 256Kb page chunks possible with scatter-gather scheme to fire to eMMC | 23:22 |
| odin_ | ok thats a kernel IO scheduling issue | 23:22 |
| odin_ | what is the read performance issue from eMMC, does a 1Kb read happen any faster than a 64Kb read ? | 23:24 |
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| ShadowJK | you'd want to try teach the kernel that a 4k write request is as costly as a 256k write request, or almost as costly as 64 4k writes in a row.. and for it to scale the length of it's i/o queue based on maximum time instead.. | 23:24 |
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| odin_ | yes you can in the IO scheduler, its pluggable the strategy, it also deals with reordering and regrouping IO requests | 23:25 |
| ShadowJK | I think it's slightly faster | 23:25 |
| ShadowJK | mmc command overhead becomes the main factor which makes small reads slower than big reads | 23:25 |
| odin_ | so it can make the same IO request within the same 256Kb chunk be groups together | 23:25 |
| ShadowJK | it's still 4 orders of magnitude faster than writing, of course :) | 23:25 |
| odin_ | even if they were submitted to the IO subsystem out-of-order with request in between | 23:25 |
| odin_ | ok so there is no real issue with 4Kb reads from eMMC for the purpose of page-faults ? | 23:26 |
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| ShadowJK | the nilfs2 filesystem is a "Log structured" filesystem.. it just writes the log of stuff that happens... so it's written sequentially.. almost like a tape drive.. that's why it's so fast in my test.. and since random reads don't suffer too much on emmc, it's even fast for reading it back too.. | 23:27 |
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| ShadowJK | in "normal" benchmarks it excells on write performance on harddrives too, but falls flat down when it comes time to read :) | 23:27 |
| odin_ | or maybe some applications like X11 server and other important system components can be aliased in OneNAND | 23:27 |
| GAN900 | What was Nokia thinking with that stupid location selection dialog | 23:27 |
| GAN900 | So confusing | 23:27 |
| ShadowJK | Yes, as long as there are no outstanding writes blocking the queue, page-faulting from emmc is just happy happy joy joy | 23:28 |
| ShadowJK | I'd like to see a dedicated emmc for OS or swap for this reason :) | 23:28 |
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| ShadowJK | It might mean the removal of microsd slot though.. | 23:28 |
| odin_ | well reads are usually given priority over writes, because everything blocks when a read blocks but a write is usually buffer cache being flushed async | 23:28 |
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| ShadowJK | yeah.. though once you've been feeding writes to the emmc for awhile, they start taking .5 sec each, so even if you prioritize reads you still have awful latency | 23:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: the FTL doesn,t know of such thing like "half-empty blocks", at least not for non-fat fs | 23:29 |
| odin_ | I don't get that metric, after a while, 500ms per write | 23:29 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, I was referring to ubi(fs) there | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ooh k | 23:30 |
| odin_ | I can understand the silicon FTL is it, it doing extra/other work around our I/O | 23:30 |
| odin_ | is this what you are claiming | 23:31 |
| ShadowJK | odin_, dunno what casuses it, but the svctm value in iostat grows to about 500 or so after awhile :) | 23:31 |
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| ShadowJK | and await to 5000 | 23:31 |
| ShadowJK | under heavy io | 23:31 |
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| odin_ | but thats not the case we're trying to optimize | 23:31 |
| odin_ | heavy io is "heavy io", journal is full, data is being pushed out and causing back pressure to block writes at the application | 23:32 |
| ShadowJK | Anyway, for me the solution is called LogFS :) | 23:32 |
| ShadowJK | and in case logfs turns out to be crap, nilfs2 :D | 23:32 |
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| ShadowJK | http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2007/video/talks/91.ogg <- talk by logfs author on the nature of flash and logfs' garbage collection algorithm :) | 23:33 |
| odin_ | the main case is normal usage patterns, bootup, background stuff going on, system idling and then being used for a short time and so on | 23:33 |
| ShadowJK | it's a good presentation :) | 23:33 |
| lcuk | can someone confirm, does it really take >2 mins for a crackberry to boot? | 23:34 |
| lcuk | or isthat just older ones | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~weather EDDN | 23:35 |
| odin_ | but you seems to be solving some kind of write issue ? and I don't see that being so important for a mobile device, it is important for loading up maybe via USB or internet with content but this is not a often used case, unlike say a database server | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~ping | 23:35 |
| odin_ | ~seen me | 23:35 |
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| ShadowJK | odin_, well loading up via usb is pretty minimal load | 23:35 |
| ShadowJK | odin_, the biggest annoyances come from database loads ;) | 23:36 |
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| ShadowJK | and there are a ton of them | 23:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ~weather EDDN | 23:36 |
| infobot | Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.03.26 2120 UTC; Dew Point: 41 F (5 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.83 in. Hg (1010 hPa); Relative Humidity: 87%; Sky conditions: overcast; Temperature: 44 F (7 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Weather: Light rain; Wind: from the W (260 degrees) at 12 MPH (10 KT) | 23:36 |
| ShadowJK | media player/tracker, gpodder, conversations, email... some of the things I use :) | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | that's bitter | 23:36 |
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| ShadowJK | like I said earlier, deleting a file in gpodder is a 1.5 sec operation due to the database update :) | 23:37 |
| DrGrov | Good evening | 23:37 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, but that is a software issue, for expecting "Winchester disk performance" metric, 512byte sectors, seek time, an IO queue | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | It's not even writing that much, about 1600 bytes.. | 23:37 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, solvable by using a journal based file format on top of a general purpose FS | 23:37 |
| ShadowJK | the fdatasync() takes the most time :) | 23:38 |
| lcuk | does it take 1..5 seconds to just delete a file? | 23:38 |
| lcuk | or a few | 23:38 |
| ShadowJK | one point five | 23:38 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, I think that is one issue ext4 tried to address, but another issue is do you really need to use fdatasync() ? | 23:38 |
| ShadowJK | plus minus point five ;D | 23:38 |
| lcuk | what, every file takes 1.5s? | 23:38 |
| DrGrov | I managed to figure out one cool thing today | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, i think mass delete is somewhat faster | 23:39 |
| lcuk | im on about a specific file | 23:39 |
| lcuk | named | 23:39 |
| lcuk | or something | 23:39 |
| lcuk | /user/home/myanonymouspoddingapp/posts/post20100326 | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | selecting 5 files for download, between tapping download and the UI responding again is like 5 seconds | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | odin_, i'm glad there was fdatasync there, gpodder db survived crash :) | 23:40 |
| lcuk | or to rename files | 23:40 |
| lcuk | or something | 23:40 |
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| ShadowJK | lcuk, it's slow because gpodder updates its own database to remove the file | 23:41 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, ah I remember now the issue with fdatasync() was block allocation on ext3 | 23:41 |
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| ShadowJK | odin_, i think it translates into sync() ;) | 23:41 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, if a database pre-allocated new pages for data in the file, then the fdatasync() is faster since there is no requirement to find a new block to allocate | 23:41 |
| lcuk | of course it does shadow | 23:41 |
| lcuk | i wonder just whats happening | 23:41 |
| lcuk | cos dont most databases not fold up the space | 23:42 |
| iBob | Hello! | 23:42 |
| lcuk | when you delete records | 23:42 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, this is a software design issue that can be fixed/improved by extending the file length when the system is more idle | 23:42 |
| DrGrov | I found some extra themes in some other repository, not any of the default ones. How can I access this repo and download the themes? | 23:42 |
| DrGrov | Or add it somehow into the repo list? | 23:42 |
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| ShadowJK | odin_, ok, next issue, when downloading files from internet there's increased latency using apps ;) | 23:43 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, over wireless or 3G/GSM/GPRS ? | 23:43 |
| ShadowJK | the page faults take longer to complete from emmc, swap is slower, etc :/ | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | DrGrov: add the repo to HAM catalogs | 23:43 |
| SpeedEvil | or when the tracker runs | 23:43 |
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| ShadowJK | odin_, HSPA 5Mbit/s | 23:43 |
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| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: aha, so how exactly do I know how to add it? | 23:43 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: HAM catalogs you mean in the Package Manager? | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yep | 23:44 |
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| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: ok, so I can manually put other repos there? Oh, I didn't know that. Thanks :) | 23:44 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, when you say downloading... do you mean browsing or saving a file to eMMC ? | 23:44 |
| ShadowJK | saving files | 23:44 |
| iBob | is w51-1 (PR1.1) the latest firmware update ? | 23:44 |
| odin_ | ShadowJK, does the download rate exceed the eMMC max-write speed rate ? | 23:44 |
| ShadowJK | no | 23:45 |
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| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: so, can I then later on remove it so it doesn't interfer with the default repos? | 23:46 |
| iBob | and is nokia going to keep providing updates after the release meego? | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | DrGrov: depending on how well the site is done, klicking a link on a website might suffice to add repo and install app | 23:46 |
| odin_ | what IO scheduler is in use in the stock kernel ? how does it manage the priority of a page-fault-in verses the download disk-write-out | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | DrGrov: yes | 23:46 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: so I can go to that webpage as well and install from there? | 23:47 |
| odin_ | certainly under my scheme all writes to eMMC from the ext3 journal now on the OneNAND would be 256Kb wide, which would achieve maximum write performance ? | 23:47 |
| ShadowJK | CFQ | 23:47 |
| pwnguin | man. i really need my banshee generated playlist =( | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | DrGrov: depends | 23:47 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: now just the problem I can't install the damn theme. Can't find it in maemo.org and the downloads section | 23:47 |
| odin_ | but there is still a priority allocated in the kernel paging system and IO system there may even be things to tweak on that | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | DrGrov: hmm, I can't find it either :-P | 23:49 |
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| odin_ | where are you writing too ? VFAT /home/user/MyDocs ? | 23:50 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: damn! :) | 23:50 |
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| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: nah, I will get it some other day. I have the default Nseries blue which is absolutely beautiful | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | damn theme: not found | 23:51 |
| DrGrov | DocScrutinizer51: lol | 23:51 |
| iBob | theres this update called maemo 5 3.2010.02-8 | 23:51 |
| ShadowJK | odin_, yes | 23:51 |
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| iBob | is this an upgrade for the OS ? | 23:52 |
| odin_ | of course the issue with my scheme is that it only affects ext3 performance, so VFAT is not affected.. however if I go back to my original intent for OneNAND to be a cache, there is no reason not to journal the entire eMMC over UBIFS partition but provide an specific interface for ext3 usage as well | 23:52 |
| iBob | i already installed Maemo 5/PR1.1 , do i need to installed this one also ? | 23:52 |
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| odin_ | FWIW there would be no need for UBIFS compression support since that is not a goal here, mainly to nick the page write counters | 23:54 |
| lcuk | iBob, that update 3.2010.02-8 is a minor update to prepare for ovi store stuff afaik. | 23:55 |
| lcuk | its not the pr1.2 you may have heard about more recently | 23:55 |
| lcuk | its 1.1.1 | 23:55 |
| iBob | i have not heard if the pr1.2 | 23:56 |
| lcuk | well thats all good then :p | 23:56 |
| iBob | i've read some stuff that seem to hint that nokia isnt going to be providing updates | 23:56 |
| iBob | because of the deleopment of meego | 23:56 |
| lcuk | (i only mentioned it because this last week the pr1.2 sdk was released, but its not a flashable image) | 23:56 |
| lcuk | well :) the hints are wrong | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | iBob: that's nonsense | 23:57 |
| iBob | great. | 23:57 |
| lcuk | theres fully documented lists around of the massive number of fixes and changes in the pr1.2 :) | 23:57 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 23:57 |
| user_ | hiiii | 23:57 |
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