IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-03-24

brody	and type?	00:00
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alterego	joker_891: wrong channel	00:00
C-S-B-N900	err... thats the chipset....i think.	00:00
C-S-B-N900	try lspci.	00:00
joker_891	i see	00:01
brody	when i run airmon-ng it says chipset: "unknown"	00:01
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C-S-B-N900	there is nio lspci. ignore me.	00:01
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yigal	modified cellwriter on the n900?	00:02
yigal	http://risujin.org/cellwriter/	00:02
C-S-B-N900	wl12xx is the chipset.	00:02
yigal	similar to n8x0 functionality but it actually works nicely	00:02
brody	yeah, but wl12xx doesn't work...	00:03
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C-S-B-N900	why is there lsusb but not lspci?	00:03
yigal	that is funny	00:04
C-S-B-N900	where can i list the hw?	00:04
microlith	C-S-B-N900: because there is no PCI/PCIe bus in the N900	00:04
alterego	C-S-B-N900: there's a simple aznswer to that, there is no pci interface	00:04
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alterego	People need to stop taking the "mobile computer" label too literally ^.^ or, expand their perception of computing ..	00:05
Milo-	has anyone figured out how to make an alarm to go off 2 hours before event?	00:05
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Milo-	(n900's default calendar)	00:05
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C-S-B-N900	alterego: i am retarded. Ill think next time...	00:06
alterego	C-S-B-N900: :)	00:06
microlith	there is a utility called lshw,but it is not present on the N900	00:07
C-S-B-N900	yeah i tried that.	00:07
microlith	most of the N900's hardware isn't attached over any real BUS, so much as via direct connections to the CPU	00:08
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microlith	or to the handful of (I'm guessing) nokia-proprietary chips (gaia, some other.)	00:09
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acidjazz	dregin: ive been in here	00:10
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lcuk	cehteh, :) hand drawn strokes are important to me	00:12
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ds3	hmm anyone else finding the N900 to be a mixed bag?	00:23
Shapeshifter	ds3: everyone	00:23
Ken-Young	ds3 I'm very happy with it.	00:24
dmj726_n900	mixed bag of awesome	00:24
alterego	Mixed bag of awesome and more awesome :)	00:24
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SpeedEvil	ds3: I have very few issues with it.	00:25
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ds3	SpeedEvil: so you are not seeing regressions relative to the N800?	00:26
dmj726_n900	most deficiencies are niggling issues with nokia's binaries	00:27
ds3	claws is not very usable on the 900 :(	00:27
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ds3	garnet vm is broq on the 900	00:27
SpeedEvil	ds3: mail me a n800 to try	00:27
ds3	SpeedEvil: oh... you weren't an upgrader?	00:27
SpeedEvil	No.	00:27
SpeedEvil	Well - yes.	00:27
SpeedEvil	From a 3310	00:27
ds3	for the few apps that it came with, the N900 is great...love the screen but the way it interacts with older apps is irritating/unusable	00:28
SpeedEvil	What do you mean?	00:28
SpeedEvil	The fact that the window manager isn't really functional if the app is fullscreen, and there isn't a way back	00:29
ds3	take claws for example... if you ask it for a network log, it gives you a solid window with almost no way to get out	00:29
ds3	exactly	00:29
ds3	my hack righ tnow is to open the camera door, and use the camera app as a way to get back and switch around	00:29
dmj726_n900	ctrl bksp?	00:30
SpeedEvil	ds3: camkeyd	00:30
ds3	SPeedEvil: is that a software package or?	00:30
SpeedEvil	ds3: a half-press on the cam button takes up to the ass-switcher	00:30
SpeedEvil	yes	00:30
V13	control - backspace	00:30
alterego	SpeedEvil: CTRL+BACKSPACE	00:30
dmj726_n900	ctrl+backspace is easy	00:30
ds3	Ohh	00:30
SpeedEvil	app-switcher	00:30
ds3	dmj726_n900: that means popping out the keyboard	00:30
SpeedEvil	or ctrl-backspace if you have hte keyboard open.	00:30
dmj726_n900	brings you to the dashboard	00:30
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ds3	I prefer to not have a keyboard (remember, I said N800...not N810)	00:31
tybollt	la?	00:31
dmj726_n900	ah	00:31
ds3	let me find camkey in the app manager	00:31
SpeedEvil	err - yes - I meant dashboard	00:31
SpeedEvil	not app switcher	00:31
dmj726_n900	I like my keyboard.	00:31
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alterego	I found that the camkey daemon was a pain in the ass.	00:31
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SpeedEvil	alterego: why?	00:32
alterego	It went all crapo when using the camera.	00:32
SpeedEvil	works for me.	00:32
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SpeedEvil	No issues at all	00:32
ds3	I don't like holding it with the keyboard open	00:32
SpeedEvil	Well - unless you press the button too hard - but I nevber found that an issue	00:32
alterego	Might be because I didn't realise it was a half press, so it openned the camera app actually ;)	00:32
ds3	the charger cable gets in the way	00:33
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alterego	Might download it again and use it with my new found knowledge ;)	00:33
SpeedEvil	Who would be interested in a right-angle USB - with the USB protruding maybe 5mm?	00:33
SpeedEvil	For $15	00:33
crashanddie	195AB6E4BA	00:33
javispedro	USB host?	00:33
SpeedEvil	javispedro: no	00:34
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crashanddie	nevermind	00:34
SpeedEvil	javispedro: just a regular USB cable.	00:34
alterego	SpeedEvil: sounds good.	00:34
SpeedEvil	javispedro: but that doesn't get in the way when using while charging	00:34
ds3	SpeedEvil: rt angle which way?	00:34
SpeedEvil	ds3: I was thinking towards the lanyard hole.	00:34
ds3	oh along the long direction	00:35
alterego	Yeah, down whilst holding it in portrait face towards you would be good.l	00:35
ds3	SpeedEvil: what about a J peice that folds on to the back?	00:35
ds3	instead of just a single rt angle, it'd flex	00:35
SpeedEvil	ds3: hmm	00:35
alterego	ds3: would be annoying.	00:35
SpeedEvil	ds3: interesting idea - I need to do some more working out of possibilities.	00:36
ds3	alterego: I have the full size USB version and it is quite useful	00:36
alterego	If the cable flowed down the side it wouldn't get in the way and it'd feel pretty sturdy I reckon.	00:36
ds3	SpeedEvil: have you seen the full size USB one?	00:36
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SpeedEvil	ds3: ?	00:36
ds3	oh the battery life is also another irritating factor :?	00:36
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ds3	SpeedEvil: let me find a picture	00:37
alterego	Recently I've not found the battery life that bad, I think it's because I've gotten over the itch to be constantly playing with it all day.	00:37
C-S-B-N900	i have not.	00:37
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ds3	I am not playing with it all day	00:38
C-S-B-N900	im on my 3rd unit and so happy its all working!	00:38
C-S-B-N900	ds3 you must have a gf.	00:38
SpeedEvil	C-S-B: :)	00:38
ds3	C-S-B-N900: :P	00:38
ds3	SpeedEvil: http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-FlexUSB-Female-Adapter/dp/B0001LS3EI	00:39
ds3	like that but for MicroUSB	00:39
SpeedEvil	ds3: way too complex mechanically. I think I can do right-angle.	00:40
sevard	why would you wan tthat crap?	00:40
ds3	I would like to have 1.5-2 full days of power with the unit sitting in my pocket	00:40
ds3	right now, I barely get 12-14 hours	00:40
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alterego	Does anyone else find all the D-THEME entries annoying?	00:40
ds3	SpeedEvil: but those things are handy	00:41
SpeedEvil	alterego: yes	00:41
alterego	I think themes shouldn't be allowed in the _application_ manager	00:41
microlith	they should have their own category	00:41
jacekowski	btw. i have problem upgrading	00:41
SpeedEvil	ds3: indeed. I can't make and sell itm and make it reliable however.	00:41
jacekowski	i get space error	00:41
ds3	SpeedEvil: oh you are making htem...thought you found a source to import	00:41
alterego	I don't think they should be in there at all, there should be a theme downloader. Themes shouldn't adhere to the same rules as software.	00:42
SpeedEvil	ds3: pondering	00:42
nidO	there badly needs to be a theme category, at the moment theyre spread all over the place	00:42
sevard	you rich people and your n900s	00:42
ds3	SpeedEvil: in that case, can you make it flimsy enough so it breaks instead of the jack?	00:42
microlith	rich nothing	00:42
alterego	I think I'd be less bothered if all the theme entires had decent previews :)	00:42
nidO	alterego that'd be very complex to implement though. just adding a new category for themes would be infinitely easier and more realistic	00:42
SpeedEvil	sevard: I've currently got teh heating off - it's however a balmy 10.5C in here.	00:43
alterego	nidO: infinnitely complex to who?	00:43
SpeedEvil	sevard: It's been 5 a month ago.	00:43
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microlith	alterego: if I install anything on my system, I want the package manager to do it	00:43
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microlith	that's what it is there for	00:43
alterego	It'd be piss easy to write a theme installer ..	00:43
sevard	dude	00:43
nidO	so write one	00:43
sevard	10.5 c is like 50 F	00:43
sevard	my house is 40F always	00:43
nidO	and submit it	00:43
sevard	that's 4.44 c	00:43
sevard	always.	00:43
sevard	i don't know why you'd want it any hotter.	00:43
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nidO	we arent all polar bears?	00:44
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SpeedEvil	Personally, I'd like ~18.	00:44
sevard	you're killing me	00:44
jacekowski	i keep it at around 20C during day when i'm at home	00:44
jacekowski	and little bit lower at night	00:44
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sevard	20 c!	00:44
crashanddie	sevard: I call BS	00:44
sevard	no wonder we have an energy crysis.	00:44
yigal	can maemo mapper search for street addresses or just gps locations - n800 question	00:44
jacekowski	sevard: i have gas heating	00:45
nidO	my apartment's about 20c during the day	00:45
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nidO	i moved in last july	00:45
nidO	in total my heating has run precisely never	00:45
crashanddie	sevard: nobody can live in 4C day-in day-out	00:45
ds3	speaking of maps, is there a way to get the map app to save the settings?	00:45
nidO	thats energy conservation.	00:45
sevard	crashanddie: wtf. come over here and look at my thermostat.	00:45
crashanddie	sevard: even prisons are at 19C minimum	00:45
sevard	hahaha.	00:45
jacekowski	crashanddie: to warm for them	00:45
sevard	prisoners also get three squares	00:45
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nidO	sevard thermostats dont even go down to 4c so what good would looking at it do?	00:45
sevard	how many complete meals did you have today?	00:46
jacekowski	crashanddie: criminals don't deserve that	00:46
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jacekowski	1,5	00:46
crashanddie	sevard: my flat is at 32 at the moment :)	00:46
V13	jacekowski: prisons are not for torturing...	00:46
SpeedEvil	crashanddie: K?	00:46
sevard	32c or f	00:46
crashanddie	jacekowski: sure they do, they're humans. They have done stupid or misinformed stuff, doesn't mean we are entitled to make them suffer needlessly	00:46
crashanddie	sevard: 32C :)	00:46
sevard	see	00:46
sevard	that's the problem here	00:46
lcuk	19deg is suffering to some people	00:46
sevard	you think you live in the tropics.	00:46
lcuk	same as 32 is to others	00:47
crashanddie	sevard: I live in the tropics you numbnuts	00:47
sevard	OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO	00:47
lcuk	some folks are happy sitting in living room being able to see their breath	00:47
jacekowski	crashanddie: no	00:47
crashanddie	sevard: there's no heating on, if anything, it's airconditioning that I'm abusing	00:47
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jacekowski	crashanddie: vision of going to prison should be scary	00:47
sevard	my 40f is just fine.	00:47
jacekowski	crashanddie: not a warm place with tv and xbox	00:47
crashanddie	jacekowski: and it is	00:47
jacekowski	well, not british prison	00:47
jacekowski	they even get xboxes there	00:48
V13	jacekowski: it is...	00:48
jacekowski	btw. i'm trying to upgrade maemo	00:48
crashanddie	jacekowski: it's not like that at all. All your privacy is stripped away, your power of choice, you don't have many liberties in prison, any anyone who thinks prisoners have liberties needs to buy a brain	00:48
jacekowski	and i get error	00:48
V13	jacekowski: prison is supposed to make people become better. not make them want revenge.	00:48
lcuk	internal room temp range for nice 1 bedroom appartment: -7 to 16deg : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igloo	00:48
jacekowski	not enough memory in target location	00:48
crashanddie	jacekowski: A very good friend of mine is a forensic psychologist, he works with inmates that have received life sentences mainly, trust me, they're not living in a spa	00:49
V13	crashanddie: just like army :)	00:49
jacekowski	V13: but they can do fuck all day long and we have to pay for it	00:49
V13	jacekowski: you don't know about this thing eh?	00:49
crashanddie	V13: except that the army you choose to enter it, and you have potential to leave it	00:49
V13	jacekowski: what's the rationale behind laws and prisons	00:49
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V13	crashanddie: just joking:)	00:49
crashanddie	V13: sure :)	00:49
jacekowski	V13: i've been in prison couple times ( not as an inmate though )	00:49
V13	crashanddie: and no... here it is mandatory.	00:50
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jacekowski	V13: and i've seen how does it look there	00:50
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SpeedEvil	http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4458618864/ - current temp	00:50
jacekowski	V13: they even have aircon in there in case it gets to warm in summer	00:50
crashanddie	jacekowski: and you honestly believe that a couple of hours gives you insight on their condition for multiple years at a time?	00:50
V13	jacekowski: well.. many prion guards are also there but they don't understand why things are as-is	00:50
lcuk	each country has different standards of prisons and different regimes and methodoligies	00:50
SpeedEvil	Including fish	00:50
lcuk	so some places you will be smashing rocks	00:50
jacekowski	but anyways it's maemo channel	00:50
lcuk	others you will be playing ps	00:50
jacekowski	and i have mamo problem	00:50
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jacekowski	when i'm trying to upgrade i get not enough memory in target location	00:51
SpeedEvil	This could be on-topic if you have reiserfs.	00:51
jacekowski	nax	00:51
jacekowski	nah	00:51
crashanddie	jacekowski: too many inmates in your prison?	00:51
jacekowski	ext3	00:51
nidO	...	00:51
lcuk	jacekowski, free some space, remove additional repositories etc	00:51
lcuk	theres a guide online about updating and space	00:51
jacekowski	where	00:51
V13	jacekowski: prisons and the whole law system is supposed to be "correctional"... not "punishment"...	00:51
jacekowski	i mean how much i need	00:52
jacekowski	V13: correctional function doesn't work	00:52
lcuk	well what are you updating specifically	00:52
crashanddie	~V13++	00:52
jacekowski	V13: most people return there anyways	00:52
lcuk	those were general hints	00:52
V13	jacekowski: or else you turn to throwing stones, cutting body parts and killing people	00:52
javispedro	tmo: "opensource application that may allow us to run windows applications on the n900" the real thing: a qt gui over qemu.	00:52
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jacekowski	lcuk: Maemo 5	00:52
V13	jacekowski: I'd like to see the stats behind your claims	00:52
ds3	has anyone tried the extended battery that makes the 900 thicker?	00:52
crashanddie	jacekowski: I don't think anyone here said that the penal system works, but claiming that people have a good life in there is just stupid.	00:52
lcuk	jacekowski, that tells me much, from what to what	00:53
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lcuk	1.0 1.1 1.1.1	00:53
jacekowski	lcuk: V13 http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=14835	00:53
C-S-B-N900	ds3 make it thicker are you insane?	00:53
* SpeedEvil points his insanometer at ds3.		00:53
* SpeedEvil leaps away from the smoking wreck.		00:53
jacekowski	lcuk: i'm upgrading using 19.6 MB update to verision 3.2010.02-8.203.1	00:53
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jacekowski	V13: About 47 percent of prisoners released in 1994 were convicted of a new crime, and 52 percent returned to prison or jail.	00:54
ds3	http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/nokia/nokia-n900/mugen-power-nokia-n900-2400mah-extended-replacement-battery-with-battery-door.html	00:54
ds3	That one	00:54
ds3	makes it almost 1 full inch	00:54
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crashanddie	jacekowski: comparing UK prisons with US stats is ridiculous	00:54
jacekowski	Over 80 percent of those under age 18 were re-arrested, compared to 45.3 percent of those 45 or older.	00:54
lcuk	jacekowski, go look in the maemo wiki for ssu	00:54
jacekowski	crashanddie: Men were more likely to be re-arrested (68 percent) than women (57 percent). Blacks (73 percent) were more likely to be rearrested than whites (63 percent).	00:54
jacekowski	lcuk: ssu?	00:55
crashanddie	jacekowski: US stats	00:55
V13	jacekowski: in which country and where is the poll?	00:55
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lcuk	and i think theres a link there taking you to upgrade considerations and ways of making space	00:55
crashanddie	V13: US gov stats	00:55
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lcuk	ssu == seamless software update - what you are attempting to do	00:55
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jacekowski	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/7473124/Half-of-prisoners-return-to-crime-on-release.html	00:55
lcuk	since you are mostly offtopic tho im sleeping again :)	00:55
lcuk	gnite	00:55
jacekowski	Some 49 per cent of inmates commit new offences within 12 months of their release from jail - up from 47 per cent the previous year. It is the second year in a row that reoffending have risen.	00:55
nidO	UK govt statistics show around 40-45% of criminals re-offend	00:56
tybollt	jacekowski: On topic post of the day?	00:56
jacekowski	in UK prisons	00:56
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javispedro	clearly, someone here is planning to send all t.m.o members to jail	00:57
V13	hmmm	00:57
javispedro	without passing go, and without collecting $200, of course.	00:57
tybollt	javispedro: why?	00:57
jacekowski	lcuk: there is no details on wiki page	00:57
Ken-Young	Well, we already get quarantined.	00:57
javispedro	tybollt: the previous discussion' topic :)	00:58
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lcuk	http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space	00:58
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tybollt	so	00:59
tybollt	there no small big batt avail yet?	00:59
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tybollt	small form factor big power	00:59
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C-S-B-N900	they should have kinetic charging. with a flash enabled browser, porn works great.	01:03
ds3	so that extended life battery is just too big for folks here?	01:03
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nidO	personally i see no point in it	01:03
hoxzer	O_o	01:03
C-S-B-N900	yes. the device is big enough,lets not make iphoners more smug.	01:03
ds3	nid0: it can double the battery life if the numbers hold	01:03
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hoxzer	I would love to have a battery with life-time of 3 days even if it would double the size of my phone	01:04
ds3	the iphone is a completely useless peice of crap so there is no point in comparing it	01:04
C-S-B-N900	its last a day, i can charge as i sleep.	01:04
nidO	an external emergency battery can hold 2000mah - 6000mah	01:04
jacekowski	hoxzer: mine lasts 3 days	01:04
nidO	and doesnt increase the device size	01:04
ds3	C-S-B-N900: some of us want to use it while traveling	01:04
hoxzer	jacekowski: good for you. apparently my usage is more power consuming	01:04
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jacekowski	hoxzer: i'm using it a lot	01:05
C-S-B-N900	and you cant take the charger	01:05
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Shapeshifter	jacekowski: riight.	01:05
jacekowski	hoxzer: but i pretty much i've got nothing in background	01:05
hoxzer	jacekowski: Dude, It wont last for 3 days if you're using it in 3G+ listening to music and surfing	01:05
Shapeshifter	I always wonder what people are doing with their "mobile" devices claiming they get 3 days out of it.	01:05
ds3	hoxzer: I am not even surfing or playing music (just email) and I barely get a 1	01:05
jacekowski	ds3: skype?	01:06
ds3	jacekowski: nope	01:06
ds3	no voice, just pure data	01:06
jacekowski	disabling skype almost doubled my batterly life	01:06
jacekowski	battery*	01:06
Shapeshifter	Mine makes it well through 1 day with maybe 10 minutes of 3g, only 2g, no phoning at all, 1sms, a little bit of wlan, and IM online most of the time.	01:06
hoxzer	Oke, not gonna do that	01:06
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noobmonk3y	i think i get about 18-20 hours doing not much on mine....... but then not much has emails being pushed etc......	01:06
Shapeshifter	jacekowski: you mean, skype chat eats battery?	01:06
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: not much of a surprise, honestly	01:06
Hoxzer	Skype is the future of cell phones. I will teach my parents to use it and they will eb able to reach me from almost everywhere :)	01:06
jacekowski	Shapeshifter: connected skype	01:06
ds3	skype does bad things to your network	01:06
Shapeshifter	Hoxzer: no. don't teach anyone how to use skype	01:07
ds3	if I do voip, I'd just do sip	01:07
Shapeshifter	Hoxzer: tell everyone that skype is the devil and if you use it you'll burn in hell.	01:07
jacekowski	ds3: jingle over jabber	01:07
pupnik_	show me who created and protocols skype connections	01:07
Shapeshifter	xmpp++	01:07
pupnik_	show me who created and protocols skype connections	01:07
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jacekowski	Shapeshifter: i had phone playing music today for 15h and sending using fmtx and i still have 1/3 of battery left	01:08
jacekowski	Shapeshifter: and jabber online	01:08
ds3	jacekowski: how old is your unit?	01:09
jacekowski	month	01:09
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ds3	Hmmm I wonder if the battery improves a lot with age then	01:09
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Shapeshifter	www.ossir.org/windows/supports/2005/2005-11-07/EADS-CCR_Fabrice_Skype.pdf good read on the crap skype protocol	01:09
SpeedEvil	ds3: It will imporove a bit over the first dozen cycles.	01:09
jacekowski	treat it well for couple weeks	01:09
jacekowski	and it will last longer	01:09
Shapeshifter	jacekowski: I'll try not using skype tomorrow	01:09
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ds3	SpeedEvil: how much is a bit... 50% longer?	01:10
jacekowski	ds3: depends	01:10
jacekowski	ds3: worst case scenario and best it could be 50%	01:10
C-S-B-N900	why does power management drop connectios...	01:10
SpeedEvil	C-S-B: some APs don't support PM well	01:10
SpeedEvil	ds3: 10%	01:11
ds3	Hmmm okay	01:11
C-S-B-N900	speed i see this!	01:11
SpeedEvil	based on other bats	01:11
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SpeedEvil	C-S-B: I get >24h battery life ssh'd into the device, and able to get OK interactive performance (~.5s)	01:11
ds3	I wonder if the CPU load monitor is preventing sleeps	01:12
SpeedEvil	ds3: powertop	01:12
ds3	is powertop in the repo?	01:12
C-S-B-N900	SpeedEvil: with pm off?	01:12
lcuk	pyqt dudez, can you knock up a simple example of opening a couple of windows on n900 ?	01:12
SpeedEvil	C-S-B: no - with it on full	01:12
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noobmonk3y	how come when i ask that i get punched lol	01:13
noobmonk3y	:P	01:13
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lcuk	theres still time for me lol	01:13
noobmonk3y	wohoooooo	01:13
noobmonk3y	~hug lcuk	01:13
* infobot jumps into lcuk's lap and huggles and hugs lcuk		01:13
noobmonk3y	close enough	01:13
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* lcuk hopes infobot is a fem		01:14
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noobmonk3y	lcuk, info can be whatever you want it/him/she/her to be	01:14
lcuk	o_O	01:14
javispedro	shklim	01:14
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: me and my father bought n900 about same time	01:14
javispedro	wow, that's $1200	01:14
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: and when we went skiing to france and we had only one charger	01:15
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: mine was charged after we finished skiing	01:15
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: and my fathers one over night	01:15
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* SpeedEvil charges his lazuh.		01:15
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: and after we finished skiing mine had still over 3/4 left	01:15
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SpeedEvil	It will mostly charge in 2 hours	01:16
jacekowski	and my father's one ( it finished charging later ) only had 2/3	01:16
C-S-B-N900	jacekowski: your dad was looking at porn over the 3g.	01:16
SpeedEvil	Or maybe less	01:16
SpeedEvil	Frm USB	01:16
SpeedEvil	err	01:16
SpeedEvil	from the wallcharger	01:16
ds3	the rapid charge is nice	01:16
trip0	that's what she said	01:16
ds3	but the insistance at popping up a USB device selection option is annoying	01:16
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jacekowski	so i would say there is a huge difference between batteries	01:17
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ds3	with Maemo-mapper running, the USB charger doesn't seem to be able to keep up (network usage + gps)	01:17
V13	I'd guess other factors like bluetooth.	01:17
jacekowski	V13: no	01:17
jacekowski	V13: same	01:17
C-S-B-N900	where is the pm option for wlan0	01:18
SpeedEvil	jacekowski: try swapping bats	01:18
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V13	jacekowski: I've my own n900 which sometimes discharges much much faster.	01:19
V13	sometimes bluetooth stucks for me	01:20
jacekowski	mhm	01:20
jacekowski	how much space on / i need to upgrade	01:20
pupnik_	i have a product idea	01:21
pupnik_	usb cable with no metal lead	01:21
V13	gn	01:22
pupnik_	avoid ripping out connectors	01:22
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pupnik_	gn	01:22
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SpeedEvil	pupnik_: no metal lead?	01:22
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SpeedEvil	pupnik_: it's kinda required.	01:22
SpeedEvil	pupnik_: Otherwise you have what is known as a socket cap.	01:23
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pupnik_	SpeedEvil: i see it. i can draw it. i can design it	01:24
SpeedEvil	pupnik_: however - you fail in describing it.	01:25
SpeedEvil	pupnik_: What do you mean 'with no metal lead'	01:26
pupnik_	imagine a cable that bends	01:26
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SpeedEvil	That's what I was meaning above about right-angle.	01:26
SpeedEvil	With a stick-out of ~5mm, with the cable mostly flush	01:27
pupnik_	no right angle	01:27
pupnik_	flexible	01:27
SpeedEvil	That's damn hard to do, as that measn the cable gets a lot more than normal flexing	01:27
pupnik_	only metal goes in usb socket	01:27
SpeedEvil	it will snap	01:27
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pupnik_	no cable bends	01:28
pupnik_	no, the cable bends	01:28
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pupnik_	it is flexible	01:28
pupnik_	that is the point	01:28
SpeedEvil	Saying 'the cable is flexible' doesn't magically make it so.	01:28
SpeedEvil	Take a USB cable. Now, bend it round a 1mm radius repeatedly.	01:28
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SpeedEvil	It will fail in some dozens of cycles.	01:29
SpeedEvil	Sorry - I'm unusually argumentative tonight.	01:30
pupnik_	is ok	01:30
pupnik_	i see your point	01:30
SpeedEvil	But cable and connector design is annoyingly hard.	01:30
pupnik_	consider	01:30
pupnik_	fiber coat	01:30
ds3	SpeedEvil: I wonder if the right angle is doable in a manner that will work at USB HS, and not overheat when chargin	01:30
SpeedEvil	If it was as simple as leaving off the strain relief and making the cable 'flexible' - then everyone would be doing it.	01:30
SpeedEvil	ds3: Should be.	01:31
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ds3	SpeedEvil: that's a lot of cabling to stuff in	01:31
SpeedEvil	pupnik_: The fundamental issue is that copper cables have a pretty fundamental minimum bend radius.	01:31
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ds3	not really	01:31
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ds3	copper is very flexible	01:32
SpeedEvil	pupnik_: This is set by the properties of copper, and the thickness of the individual wires making up the cable.	01:32
SpeedEvil	ds3: Copper is very flexible - initially.	01:32
pupnik_	and that can be strainrelieved without 20 mm of metal+plastic	01:32
SpeedEvil	ds3: After a few dozen cycles, it work-hardens remarkably.	01:32
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ds3	SpeedEvil: just pop it into an oven after x cycles and it'll be good as new	01:32
ds3	if that's the only problem... there is gold ;)	01:32
SpeedEvil	ds3: That will tend to melt the cable.	01:32
SpeedEvil	ds3: yes - gold is a solution I've proposed for this before.	01:33
ds3	SpeedEvil: maybe... silicone might be able to tolerate the annealing temps	01:33
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SpeedEvil	ds3: From memory it will cost around $500 for a gold cable.	01:33
ds3	I am more concerned with the resultant cable characteristics	01:33
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SpeedEvil	ds3: silicone can't really. The high temp stuff isn't really robust, at all.	01:33
ds3	SpeedEvil: what's the annealing temp for copper?	01:34
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SpeedEvil	ds3: It's ~300C if I remember right.	01:34
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ds3	silicone should be able to tolerate that briefly	01:34
ds3	and copper can be quenched unlike steel	01:35
SpeedEvil	Silicone of the grade that can cope with that is very weak mechanically.	01:35
SpeedEvil	It is not suitable.	01:35
lcuk	the nokia charging cable for my n810 was uber flexible	01:35
SpeedEvil	Anyway - silly conversation is silly.	01:35
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ds3	I mean ordinary silicone, not the high temp stuff...the ratings are, IIRC, for continous serivce	01:35
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: USB raises issues.	01:35
lcuk	yeah ofc	01:36
lcuk	its like ide cables	01:36
SpeedEvil	lcuk: it's a lot easier to make a two conductor cable flexy, than a 4 conductor controlled impedence cable. :/	01:36
lcuk	different requirements	01:36
* lcuk nods		01:36
ds3	IIRC, it is also sheilded	01:36
SpeedEvil	Anyway. I am going to attempt to go to sleep, so you will all dissapear for a bit into the void.	01:36
lcuk	haha	01:36
pupnik_	yea	01:36
C-S-B-N900	SpeedEvil: sleep well.	01:37
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lcuk	im just reading hamilton book, the dreaming void	01:37
lcuk	gnite SpeedEvil	01:37
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jacekowski	why partitions on n900 are so fucked up	01:39
C-S-B-N900	i wonder we could format and reset up fstab?	01:40
nidO	no	01:40
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jacekowski	resizing is possible	01:40
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jacekowski	but why just don't join / and /home	01:40
nidO	or rather, you wont overcome rootfs problems as it's physically limited by the nand chip size	01:40
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jacekowski	bs	01:41
C-S-B-N900	is root on a seperate chip?	01:41
jacekowski	no	01:41
javispedro	yes	01:41
nidO	yes, its a nand chip that's much much faster than the emmc	01:41
nidO	only way round it, theoretically, would be storing rootfs data on the emmc instead of the nand	01:42
nidO	which would make the device cripplingly slow	01:42
GAN900	jacekowski, so you can put media on a bigger storage device	01:42
jacekowski	javispedro: NO	01:42
GAN900	jacekowski, it's not a laptop	01:42
jacekowski	http://wiki.maemo.org/Nokia_N900	01:42
javispedro	jacekowski: if you're going to try to make a point, please do so quickly. else, I'll say you're wrong.	01:42
GAN900	rootfs is on the OneNAND	01:42
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GAN900	eMMC has home and MyDocs	01:43
javispedro	that page is oooooooooooutdated.	01:44
C-S-B-N900	well MyDocs should have been ext3...	01:44
C-S-B-N900	why is it vfat?	01:44
nidO	so that windows machines can see it.	01:44
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lcuk	gnite everyone anyway \o	01:44
javispedro	gnite lcuk!	01:45
pupnik_	i am the ceiling cat	01:45
C-S-B-N900	well there are ext3 drivers. thanks windows users for that.	01:45
pupnik_	cu	01:45
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pupnik_	god damnm windows for all time	01:45
* javispedro confesses he prefers VFAT.		01:45
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C-S-B-N900	what?	01:45
javispedro	simpler, doesn't have extra unneeded semantics I don't really need, and the performance difference is probably moot	01:46
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C-S-B-N900	for a hacker phone, they sure do convience windows	01:46
nidO	i'm a windows user, as far as my workstation goes. most users arent going to want to install an additional driver just to get the device visible to their pc. besides, im sure nokia do vaguely plan to add ovi suite support sometime, having an ext3 fs would probably complicate that	01:46
jacekowski	C-S-B-N900: there is no windows ext3 driver	01:46
C-S-B-N900	and the hidden files in MyDocs, whys?	01:47
pupnik_	given mfin windows, vfat is the right choice	01:47
javispedro	C-S-B: that's a stupid thing indeed, probably done to workaround some hildonfm limitation.	01:48
pupnik_	dot filename	01:48
javispedro	yes, I mean that	01:48
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C-S-B-N900	nidO: i expected better from you!	01:48
javispedro	you can rename the folders by editing the hildon-fm source, but I'm sure that if you do chaos would ensue	01:48
javispedro	probably would appear twice or the like	01:48
C-S-B-N900	im sure.	01:48
nidO	why, i'm not a retard fanboy one way or the other, I use what's most productive for me - for a workstation, that's win7	01:49
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jacekowski	C-S-B-N900: windows "ext3" driver is just ext2 driver that can open ext3 in non journaled mode and fuck up your fs if it's not cleanly unmounted	01:49
nidO	for my home file/media server that also happens to be win7	01:49
* javispedro 's file server is the n900 :)		01:50
nidO	my fileserver kinda has 1.4Tb of data on it atm though	01:50
nidO	hard to squeeze that onto a microsd	01:50
C-S-B-N900	i see your point but unless you game, linux is just better.	01:50
javispedro	winlin flamewar tonight!	01:50
C-S-B-N900	especially as a server.	01:50
nidO	not for me on my workstation or file/media server it isnt	01:51
C-S-B-N900	im not flaming...	01:51
C-S-B-N900	javispedro: n900 file server? really...	01:51
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javispedro	why not?	01:51
javispedro	it has a builtin sai; it's fast enough; it consumes little power; it's up more time than my router...	01:51
C-S-B-N900	no usb host mode?	01:51
nidO	usb?	01:52
nidO	why would a fileserver need usb?	01:52
C-S-B-N900	for mass storage.	01:52
javispedro	probably to connect a 1.5TiB, but I don't have anything that large to store.	01:52
pupnik_	nidO: if you had lived through msdos 1.0 to today, as i did, you might be in the "never forgive" camp	01:52
jacekowski	usb mass storage on file server?	01:52
jacekowski	1.5T?	01:52
jacekowski	my file servers handle 20T	01:52
nidO	pupnik_ I'm not quite that ancient but i'm not far short	01:52
jacekowski	usb would be too slow anyways	01:53
C-S-B-N900	javispedro: are you nfs/smb or ssh to get your files...	01:53
javispedro	nfs	01:53
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C-S-B-N900	javispedro: does that come standard?	01:53
javispedro	kernel modules do iirc; utils no	01:54
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pupnik_	I will go with peace, into a night	01:54
pupnik_	where no-one is brighter or dumber	01:54
C-S-B-N900	do you need the utils?	01:54
jacekowski	yes	01:55
pupnik_	where beauty does not fall to blight	01:55
jacekowski	at least mount.nfs and portmap	01:55
javispedro	yes, without a portmapper it's going to be difficult.	01:55
pupnik_	and Microsoft has not one customer	01:55
jacekowski	but i think you can do it without portmap	01:55
javispedro	nfsv4, maybe	01:55
jacekowski	mount just timeouts on trying to contact portmap	01:55
jacekowski	and does it over default ports	01:55
C-S-B-N900	javispedro: did you compile the tools or are they in the repo.	01:55
javispedro	not for statd, lockd, etc.	01:55
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javispedro	mount.nfs probably fallbacks to nfsv2 iirc	01:56
javispedro	the busybox one doesn't	01:56
jacekowski	i don't think so	01:56
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jacekowski	i had lot of fun with that	01:56
jacekowski	i mean portmap was dead	01:56
jacekowski	it was taking a lot to mount	01:56
jacekowski	but it was mounting it over v4	01:57
C-S-B-N900	and xfer speed are you getting?	01:57
jacekowski	nfs?	01:57
jacekowski	network speed	01:57
javispedro	i'd say "nfsv4 maybe"	01:57
jacekowski	fcuk	01:57
trem	nite all, sweet dreams	01:57
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javispedro	s/i'd say/i said	01:57
jacekowski	my has defaulted to factory settings	01:57
C-S-B-N900	sftp in nautilus is doing ok at the mo.	01:58
jacekowski	or no	01:58
C-S-B-N900	but i might static ip this badboy and map it on my comp.	01:58
jacekowski	sftp is too slow for me	01:59
C-S-B-N900	is there a guide to getting the n900 nfs ready?	02:00
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jacekowski	there are some modules in maemo-extras	02:00
jacekowski	and utils	02:01
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C-S-B-N900	then i may well have them. i know i have the cifs pack.	02:02
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Ken-Young	Has the promotion of packages from Extras-devel to Extras-testing been disabled?	02:05
javispedro	might be	02:06
javispedro	from today on iirc they will be built for fremantle-1.2	02:06
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nidO	not unless it happened very recently, last package was promoted like 2 hours ago	02:06
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javispedro	yeah well Wednesday arrived just 2 hours ago (UTC) :)	02:07
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pupnik	http://lolfed.com/wp-content/lesko.jpg lol	02:07
nidO	7 minutes ago* :p	02:07
Ken-Young	nidO, I just uploaded a package, the build succeeded, but there is no "Promote Package" link.	02:07
Ken-Young	nidO, My build completed more than 7 minutes ago.	02:08
javispedro	nidO: touché	02:08
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nidO	well, no clue - if today (weds) is when it's disabled for the current repo then they might have shut down promotion in the past couple of hours	02:08
nidO	but the last package to go to testing hit at 21:45, 2 hours 25 mins ago	02:09
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Ken-Young	nidO, Rats - Will it now be impossible to promote packages until whenever pr1.2 appears?	02:09
javispedro	I want to propose to switch the fremantle autobuilder to use the PR1.2 SDK coming Wednesday March 24th, 12:00 UTC.	02:09
javispedro	</quote>	02:09
javispedro	so, dunno.	02:09
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Ken-Young	javispedro, Not much of a warning interval.	02:09
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nidO	hum	02:10
Ken-Young	javispedro, Not that I'm blaming you.	02:10
nidO	12:00 utc is 12 hours from now	02:10
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javispedro	i said "dunno"	02:10
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jacekowski	nidO: it was 12h ago	02:10
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noobmonk3y	hmm anyone know how to get the button label text on a QtGui.QPushButton ?	02:11
jacekowski	and 36h ago	02:11
noobmonk3y	.setText to set it	02:11
nidO	12:00 utc weds 24th is in 11 hours 49 minutes time	02:11
noobmonk3y	but not sure how to retrieve it in pymaemo	02:11
noobmonk3y	pyqt	02:11
jacekowski	or in 365 days and 11h 48 minutes	02:12
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jacekowski	good night	02:13
javispedro	good.	02:13
javispedro	er..	02:13
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javispedro	gnite.	02:13
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noobmonk3y	:D	02:15
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noobmonk3y	anyone? :D - how to get a buttons text (QtGui.QPushButton) using pyqt? - just trying to see what the current button text is?	02:23
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DocScrutinizer	in 365 days and 11h 48 minutes definitely isn't wednesday 24h	02:26
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noobmonk3y	meh - no panic, sorted, used a global var :D	02:26
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DocScrutinizer	24th even	02:30
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frals_	noobmonk3y: try print dir(yourobject), should list a set of methods on it	02:30
frals_	(not sure if it made it through the last time before i got dc'd)	02:30
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pronto	http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/bh8mm/take_action_to_keep_sarah_palin_aerial_wolfkiller/ Take action to keep Sarah Palin, aerial wolf-killer, off Discovery	02:31
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cityLights2	I am an idiot - can anyone tell me where I can get /etc/init.d/icd2 , I just rm it by mistake	02:50
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pupnik	pastbin ok cityLights2 ?	02:53
cityLights2	yes!	02:54
javispedro	or just doing something like apt-get install --reinstall icd2	02:54
cityLights2	I tried it - doesnt work	02:55
javispedro	you tried it with this syntax and it failed how?	02:55
cityLights2	yes this syntax - file is still missing	02:56
javispedro	ah I see, they made icd2.initd a conffile	02:56
pupnik	http://paste.debian.net/65555/	02:56
cityLights2	thanks mate	02:57
pupnik	np	02:57
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cityLights2	I am seeking the IAP ID	03:01
cityLights2	so I ran gconftool -R /system/osso/connectivity/IAP \|more	03:01
cityLights2	but how can I tell which is the ID?	03:02
cityLights2	I mean , I search for gprs	03:03
cityLights2	then how can I find the ID?	03:03
cityLights2	only number I see under /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/Internet@32@3G: is sim_imsi number	03:04
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* noobmonk3y is off to bed, night alls		03:05
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SudhirMathane	hi, could someone help me find how do i get opengles-sgx-img-common and opengles-sgx-img-common packages?	03:07
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luke-jr	SudhirMathane: you probably don't.	03:08
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SudhirMathane	luke-jr: Are these packages missing in repositories?	03:09
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Andrewfblack	any idea when I first install php server and lighttpd on n900 it works fine I restart and start lighttpd but php stops working	03:09
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amstan	hey guys, i heard there's a maemo gsoc chan, where is that?	03:10
amstan	nvm, found it	03:10
luke-jr	SudhirMathane: they're not redistributable, afaik	03:10
SudhirMathane	luke-jr: thanks for your help. One last questions --> are these covered under than NOKIA binaries under EULA?	03:11
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crashanddie	SudhirMathane: if they are in the Nokia repositories, they are not redistributable. If they are in the Maemo repository, they are redistributable (and in the free category)	03:17
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SudhirMathane	crashanddie: thanks	03:18
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crashanddie	They should have licences coming with them anyhoo	03:23
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C-S-B-N900	whats the intermediate power option like?	04:42
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cehteh	mhm i wondering if i should a very long lasting (30min for example) vibration alarm with very short pulses (little more than the screen tap vibr) and long pause (15-30 sec) for notification .. xchat for example	05:07
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cehteh	eventually one notice it when the device twitches	05:07
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cehteh	.. note: no thats not good	05:19
yigal	for diablo users: has anyone here been succesful in using stereo headphones via a2dp ?	05:20
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yigal	or stereo over bt in general in diablo?	05:21
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DocScrutinizer	failed	05:22
yigal	I see this http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=13468&highlight=a2dp so I imagine it works, or at least it worked on diablo	05:23
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\|R_	anyone has a browserd -s 1234 -n browserui poping up randomly and actually waking the screen up ? (i get my pin asked because it's been long enough)	05:58
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* disco_stu convirtiendo flvs a mp4		06:02
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LiraNuna	x86_64 is /still/ not supported in maemo sdk?	07:05
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Milo-	I have no issues with x86_64	07:13
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ptl	516 nicks in #maemo vs. 322 nicks in android.	07:26
ptl	I mean #android	07:26
ptl	96 nicks in #iphone	07:26
crashanddie	~ping	07:33
infobot	~pong	07:33
Stskeeps	~plonk	07:33
infobot	rumour has it, plonk is the sound that a name makes when hitting the ignore list or killfile	07:33
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crashanddie	ptl: IRC activity is hardly any kind of pointer of popularity	07:34
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crashanddie	ptl: Android and iPhoneOS blow Maemo out of the water in terms of numbers, they just target less nerdy types of users	07:34
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Stskeeps	irc activity on freenode, too	07:36
Stskeeps	:P	07:36
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crashanddie	I'm guessing Freenode is one of the more popular networks these days	07:36
crashanddie	I hardly hear of Quakenet, undernet or Efnet anymore these days	07:37
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LiraNuna	I installed the maemo5 SDK	07:57
LiraNuna	now what? :D	07:57
ankur	I have installed maemo5 too	07:58
LiraNuna	docs show /scratchbox/ but I don't have it in /	07:58
ankur	Regarding application testing is Emulator tool avalibale	08:01
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ptl	crashanddie: don't get me at me for pointing that! :)	08:03
ptl	crashanddie: the activity in talk.maemo.org is also much greater than any of the android forums I've visited so far.	08:03
ptl	*crashanddie: don't get mad at me	08:03
crashanddie	s/activity/noise/	08:03
ptl	yeah, but the same kind (and percentage) of noise that appears in other forums, so it cancels	08:04
crashanddie	ptl: you're trying to imply the number of Maemo users is greater than the number of Android users?	08:05
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crashanddie	I mean, I love the platform, but seriously, we have to be realistic	08:05
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ptl	not really	08:07
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ptl	I am just trying to irritate someone enough so that the irritated person thinks that I think the world is nerdy	08:07
ptl	something like that	08:07
ptl	nevertheless android also has a nerd side	08:08
LiraNuna	why can't I find anything that indicates where the maemo sdk was installed to?	08:08
slonopotamus	what does (nc) in bugzilla mean?	08:09
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LiraNuna	no content	08:09
slonopotamus	thx	08:10
ankur	anyone having little time please tell regarding emulator	08:11
MiXu-	ankur: There's scratchbox	08:11
MiXu-	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_using_GUI_Installer	08:13
ankur	ok thnx sir ,	08:14
ankur	Regarding GSoc i need to dicuss over EBook reader project	08:14
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LiraNuna	does the N900's ARM CPU support NEON?	08:32
crashanddie	LiraNuna: no	08:34
Summeli	sure	08:34
crashanddie	LiraNuna: NEON is only available on Cortex IIRC	08:34
LiraNuna	uhm, isn't N900 Cortex A8...	08:34
Summeli	yeah, so it's supported	08:34
Summeli	have fun ^^	08:34
LiraNuna	awesome, I wanted to have fun with NEON for so long	08:35
* crashanddie is sleepy		08:35
crashanddie	sorry 'bout that	08:35
Stskeeps	LiraNuna: yes, there's NEON patches in libjpeg for instance	08:36
LiraNuna	leetness	08:36
LiraNuna	I wanted to play with NEON for so long	08:36
LiraNuna	gonna have fun with a lame google map app	08:36
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Passeli	it seems that in N900 i cannot anymore install local packages by application manager	09:15
Passeli	is the only way to install xterm + rootsh ?	09:15
Passeli	so that it is possible to install local packages?	09:16
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Matros	Hi all!	09:20
rmrfchik	Passeli: dpkg -i file.deb	09:22
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Passeli	rmrfchik: yeah but in order to do that i need to install xterm+rootsh	09:33
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Passeli	i'm asking confirmation that there is no other way to do local packages install	09:34
rmrfchik	hmmm..	09:34
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Passeli	what does following error mean: Warning: This package does not have the required bugtracker link specified! ?	09:48
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Passeli	find it, it seems that i'm missing bugtracker address at control file	09:53
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LiraNuna	how come I can't set +x on files?	10:16
LiraNuna	on the N900's terminal	10:16
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fragment	LiraNuna: which partition?	10:16
LiraNuna	~/MyDocs/	10:16
fragment	that is FAT32	10:16
LiraNuna	eeew	10:17
mortal	what is the best chess app for n800?	10:17
LiraNuna	how do I execute from FAT32	10:17
Stskeeps	mortal: comes with one that's kinda difficult	10:17
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mortal	Stskeeps: what is it based on? gnuchess?	10:18
Stskeeps	yeah	10:19
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LiraNuna	hmm	10:19
LiraNuna	/home/user is ext3	10:20
LiraNuna	I took the OpenVG examples from TI	10:20
Sampppa_	LiraNuna, put your files under /opt for example	10:20
LiraNuna	it says 'Warning! Using the SOFTWARE renderer'	10:20
tekojo	Morning!	10:20
mortal	I wish I could get a recent crafty and some good ui	10:20
Stskeeps	morning!	10:20
LiraNuna	there's no OpenVG support for N900?	10:21
mortal	could it be possible to get some debian package of crafty and install it? or would it break things	10:21
Stskeeps	LiraNuna: not sure, there is for n8x0 :P	10:22
LiraNuna	why does it fallback to the software renderer? :(	10:22
noobmonk3y	meh... tmo down	10:23
mikhas	mortal, last time I tried to compile crafty it came up with a lot of warnings ... havent tried to compile it for arm	10:23
ptl	again! :/	10:23
noobmonk3y	meh	10:23
noobmonk3y	just as i was pressing submit on a post :(	10:23
LiraNuna	huh	10:23
LiraNuna	even the OGL demos says	10:24
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LiraNuna	'Warning! Using the SOFTWARE renderer'	10:24
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noobmonk3y	Grrrrrr to tmo, got to goto work in a mo	10:25
ptl	it's back	10:26
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LiraNuna	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37966	10:31
LiraNuna	I'm not the only one	10:31
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* noobmonk3y w000000ps		10:34
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ruskie	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/23/sandisk_32gb_microsdhc/ <-- hmm can haz 64gb in a n900 ;)	10:39
pupnik	crazy	10:40
mortal	is there any directory based mp3 player available for n800	10:40
pupnik	xmms, mplayer	10:41
mortal	thanks	10:41
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noobmonk3y	£133 eeeeeeeek	10:43
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* noobmonk3y blames lcuk for the price of the world.......		10:44
noobmonk3y	right off to work, have a gd day alls	10:44
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ameng	Hi, anybody can help to tell me how to build a deb package from source (automake based)?	10:45
ameng	in scratchbox	10:46
Stskeeps	dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot	10:46
Stskeeps	:P	10:46
noobmonk3y	py2deb/py2packager on the devcie :D	10:46
noobmonk3y	device*	10:46
noobmonk3y	from python anyway	10:46
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ameng	Stskeeps: dpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open debian/changelog to find format: No such file or directory	10:47
ameng	dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package is	10:47
Stskeeps	ok, you want to package a automake based software, or build a pre-existing package?	10:47
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ameng	Stskeeps: package a automake based software	10:48
Stskeeps	ameng: ok, then go read the nearest packaging guides for debian or contact our debmaster, jeremiah	10:48
Stskeeps	he's hired to help with questions and such regarding things	10:48
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ameng	Stskeeps: thanks , where can i find jeremiah?	10:50
Stskeeps	ameng: jeremiah.foster@pelagicore.com	10:50
Stskeeps	not sure why he's not hanging out here anymore though	10:51
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ameng	Stskeeps: oh	10:51
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Khertan	Hi !	10:51
iryge	hey stskeeps, do you plan on updating your example theme to use hildon-theme-layout-5 0.15.0-1? i don't know how to easily fork nokia's example theme...	10:51
Stskeeps	iryge: yes, it's a matter of pulling down the updated variant example, i will do this later tody	10:52
TigerTael	Wish they'd hurry up with 1.2 already.	10:53
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iryge	stskeeps: yeah i actually tried your try_it_out.sh script with the new variant example, and it gave some error, which i've already forgotten	10:54
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iryge	and their script still requires confml, whatever that is.	10:54
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fluemo	hmm, it seems 1.2 is already out via pc updater?	11:08
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TigerTael	fluemo, is it?	11:11
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nidO	it isnt	11:13
nidO	please read more than the first post in that thread	11:13
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tybollt	nidO: no, I like me reading the first few post and then making premature assumptions about everything said in there, kthxplz	11:15
tybollt	;)	11:15
nidO	no u :(	11:15
TigerTael	ffs	11:15
Khertan	fluemo: it s pr1.1.1	11:16
ptl	tmo down again...	11:17
fluemo	yea, i see now, lol.. i didnt even see the thread about it yet	11:17
ptl	well, just ask that guy if he can reorder the menu items. if he can't, it' PR 1.1.1.	11:18
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ptl	Nokia is taking so long with PR 1.2 that it must be rock stable now.	11:20
ptl	I was comparing my N900 to a friend's Motorola backflip	11:20
ptl	he had to turn it in to the seller 2 times... It's the third device he gets	11:20
nidO	well, it is a ginormous patch if the monster list of bugfixes is even remotely accurate	11:20
ptl	it just keeps rebooting	11:20
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ptl	and with all my tinkering I have the N900 for almost two months and have had only one freeze.	11:21
ptl	no random reboots.	11:21
Khertan	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php <<--- still no 1.2 ... so no ... pr1.2 is definitively not available	11:21
gouverneur	ptl: you come from windows?	11:21
ptl	gouverneur: don't offende me! :P I use solely Linux as my SO since 2001.	11:21
gouverneur	ptl: I had no freeze yet	11:21
FIQ	i've no freeze at all. :D	11:21
ptl	*as my OS	11:21
nidO	windows doesnt freeze..	11:21
gouverneur	ptl: because you talk like one	11:22
FIQ	SE P1i was a nice phone (my previous phone) but it freezed one time a day	11:22
gouverneur	windows just hangsup	11:22
nidO	it really doesnt	11:22
FIQ	just because of that, it takes me just 10secs to take off and insert the battery in it lol	11:23
FIQ	windows, not freezing?	11:23
nidO	rabid linux fanboys have such a distorted view of windows its laughable	11:23
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ptl	gouverneur: it hang just after I installed Appwatch	11:23
ptl	gouverneur: I talk like one? How it is like?	11:24
tybollt	ptl: OTOH - there are quite a few common build quality issues.	11:24
ptl	*How is it like	11:24
FIQ	well, it rarely makes a completly freeze (but it happens!) but it tend to require rebooting to solve many strange problems	11:24
tybollt	with the n900	11:24
FIQ	I've never understand why.	11:24
gouverneur	nidO: it is not called fanboys... its called idealists	11:24
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ptl	gouverneur: maybe that's because I am a non-native english speaker. Some of my words might seem not so... unixy?	11:24
gouverneur	ptl: "that it must be rock stable now"	11:24
nidO	no, its fanboys. idealists would have no reason to incorrectly bash an operating system they know dick all about	11:24
FIQ	I would prefer Linux, but windows isn't that bad	11:24
tybollt	FFS noobs	11:25
gouverneur	nidO: I know both and still dont like windows... or microsoft at all	11:25
FIQ	love you too, tybollt. :3	11:25
tybollt	it is "fanboi" :)	11:25
tybollt	now call me by the CORRECT derogatory name, will you please?	11:25
gouverneur	FIQ: have I to remind of Win ME?	11:25
gouverneur	or XP64	11:26
FIQ	no lol	11:26
gouverneur	or vista	11:26
nidO	i've been using win7 for a year and a half on my workstation, the only times its been shutdown or rebooted are when i moved house last july and once every couple of months when the patch tuesday requires a reboot	11:26
FIQ	i have vista	11:26
FIQ	:)	11:26
ptl	what's FFS?	11:26
gouverneur	nidO: so they fixed the constantly rebooting issue?	11:26
FIQ	i hate UAC on it, but the unstableness of it, i havent seen anything of	11:26
nidO	prior to that I used xp for perhaps 5 years on my workstations, I dont even know what the xp bsod screen looks like	11:26
tybollt	(what nid forgets to mention are the 12 or so botnet that silently pwns his Win 7 w/out him knowing it)	11:27
nidO	gouverneur I used the beta, rc1, and now final and i've never seen any constantly rebooting or crashing or anything issues	11:27
FIQ	windows xp logo, loading bar with blue squares going	11:27
FIQ	etc	11:27
ptl	for fuck's sake?	11:27
FIQ	np	11:27
FIQ	correct, ptl	11:27
tybollt	ptl: correct yes	11:27
gouverneur	nidO: no I mean that you have to reboot once a day because of some freaking upgrade, my gamingcomputer got windows xp with turned of upgrades to prevent it from rebooting	11:28
FIQ	rebooting cycle is usually caused of a firmware brick	11:28
nidO	win7 updates require reboots perhaps every 2nd/3rd timer	11:28
nidO	-r*	11:28
ptl	I am windows free and I intend to keep that way. Ok, my previous phone was a windows mobile, I confess, but that's it. :)	11:28
nidO	which equates to once every 2-3 months	11:28
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FIQ	governeur, you really shouldn't turn it off	11:28
nidO	less often than a well maintained nix system would need reboots for kernel updates	11:28
gouverneur	nidO: so it is still there...	11:28
FIQ	and, btw	11:29
FIQ	i use vista SP2	11:29
FIQ	works fine	11:29
tybollt	Well I use linux, openbsd, windows etc... daily. They are all OSes, they suck in their own very special little way. I love my Windows 7 for what it excels att	11:29
tybollt	at	11:29
gouverneur	nidO: let it become the primary win on the market and you will reboot at least every two days... like any other windwos	11:29
gouverneur	FIQ: turn what off?	11:30
nidO	why would I? and I never did so with xp for 5 years	11:30
ptl	Shoot me, but I use Linux mainly for ethical reasons.	11:30
FIQ	windows updates	11:30
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ptl	free software philosophy and the such.	11:30
tybollt	ptl: I love the people that use Linux for "ethical" reasons then they put the latest binary blob from Nvidia on their computer and think they are all ethical and such... what a bunc of crock...	11:30
nidO	hell I used win2000 server back in the day on my workstation machine, I had an uptime of 8 months on that at once point	11:31
gouverneur	nidO: then you dont work with it and you do not do security upgrades	11:31
nidO	read my point re kernels, it seems the same applies to you.	11:31
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gouverneur	my office windows has nearly a constant yellowish shield in systray to tell me to reboot	11:31
ptl	tybollt: there's a compromise to that, I try to keep my non-free-software to the minimum. I use free drivers from intel and such...	11:31
FIQ	here's what I think: Windows is not über bad (if you don't count ME/Vista without any SP), but it has disadventages. I prefer Linux because it's free, virus free, easy to upgrade, and i love the package manager idea	11:32
ptl	tybollt: but you can't really blame them for trying. nvidia blobs are bad, but a whole closed SO is worse.	11:32
lupine_85	so on my N900, what format should I be transcoding video /to/, in order to get acceptable playback?	11:32
ptl	s/SO/OS/	11:32
infobot	ptl meant: tybollt: but you can't really blame them for trying. nvidia blobs are bad, but a whole closed OS is worse.	11:32
nidO	i'd think perhaps you're doing something wrong then gouverneur. windows update on average updates your machine once a month, thats just a fact.	11:32
FIQ	but i wouldn't count me as a "Linux fanboy"	11:32
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gouverneur	lupine_85: raw?	11:32
tybollt	ptl: then all respect to you... I am too lazy... my TV computer is Win 7 because I couldn't be arsed to tinker for two years before starting to use it :)	11:32
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FIQ	nid0, it sends fixes every tuesday iirc	11:33
nidO	no	11:33
lupine_85	has it got the I/O throughput for that?	11:33
nidO	its one tuesday a month.	11:33
FIQ	except major security holes	11:33
FIQ	hm, ok	11:33
nidO	except for enormously urgent fixes, yes	11:33
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lupine_85	surely, there must be /one/ codec that "just works"	11:33
nidO	which doesnt happen often	11:33
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FIQ	hm	11:34
FIQ	i will buy a 16GB sd card soon	11:34
ptl	tybollt: one of the main reasons for me to switch to N900 was to keep my closed software to the minimum. I don't mind paying extra for freedom. I even tried to import the freerunner a while ago but couldn't. And I bought my previous phone, with windows mobile, thinking it would be able to run android (there was a video of a very early beta android running on it on youtube).	11:34
FIQ	so i can play easily with alternate OSes for N900	11:35
FIQ	:d	11:35
gouverneur	lupine_85: just anything you like! the format as long as not propriitary does not matter the size should fit the screen so there is no need to scale	11:35
FIQ	hm, btw	11:35
tybollt	ptl: I do not agree... The point is that graphics has direct access to memory and by that notion it can do whatever the hell it wants to your system, effectively a bug in your graphics driver can expose you to any number of root's. So in that sense - putting custom Nvidia blobs in your linux is about as bad as running Windows... you have NO IDEA what goes on with your machines (oh - same goes for N900 of course :)	11:35
lupine_85	gouverneur: you miss my point. I get about 5-10fps with h.264	11:35
FIQ	about the bootloader for N900	11:35
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FIQ	wouldn't it be theoretical possible to boot from live sessions with it?	11:36
lupine_85	it's lovely that it tries, but I'd rather have the video and audio in sync, and at the correct speed	11:36
FIQ	for example, from a sd card	11:36
gouverneur	lupine_85: I get about 29.8 fps...	11:36
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lupine_85	with h.264? what resolution?	11:36
ptl	tybollt: yes, there's many points to it, technically-wise and such. I do consider them also, of course. But I do really matter about freedom and such. There's no use of having a device (computer, mobile phone or whatever) if it doesn't work at all.	11:36
gouverneur	lupine_85: 800x420	11:36
Mece	what doesn't work now?	11:37
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gouverneur	ptl: what is it with you? reflash your damn thing and stop installing devel apps!	11:37
tybollt	ptl: agreed :)	11:37
ptl	gouverneur: ???	11:37
ptl	lol	11:37
FIQ	question:	11:38
tybollt	mece: discussing OSes.	11:38
ptl	gouverneur: what does this have to do with devel apps?	11:38
FIQ	why does the pacman take years to load?	11:38
gouverneur	ptl: have I overread something and yelling on the wrong guy?	11:38
FIQ	too many enabled repositories?	11:38
ptl	gouverneur: I think so!	11:38
tybollt	hehe poor ptl - everyone's dumping on him =)	11:38
FIQ	everytime i install something, the cache update takes more time than the install itself	11:39
ptl	:(	11:39
gouverneur	ptl: yeah some things do not work out that well for sure, I can easily crash my hildon-desktop with installing OMweather....	11:39
tybollt	omweather is a biatch...	11:39
lupine_85	ho de hum	11:39
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tybollt	"please promise to reboot your machine after instal"	11:40
tybollt	what the ...?	11:40
ptl	gouverneur: but i was not saying that my apps or my device don't work, I was talking about a hypothetical generic case... My N900 is very stable indeed.	11:40
FIQ	lol :P	11:40
gouverneur	FIQ: yes, and If you run out of / space you may deavtivate them and clean cache...	11:40
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gouverneur	ptl: ah generic... ok	11:40
gouverneur	ptl: sry	11:40
FIQ	i clean the cache often...	11:41
FIQ	just for preventing rootfs being full	11:41
gouverneur	FIQ: does not matter... the listings stay	11:41
FIQ	meh	11:41
gouverneur	disabling all unneeded repos frees up space you may need if your upgrade is stuck at some point	11:42
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FIQ	rootfs 227.9M 192.9M 30.8M 86% /	11:42
FIQ	not that little space free	11:43
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gouverneur	I tried to optify themes and stuff but somethings wrong with the setup there, even with all files moved I get another stby slider or background after reboot	11:43
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gouverneur	FIQ: PR1.0 needed +50MB afaik to install	11:44
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FIQ	:(	11:45
FIQ	then the PR1.2 update will fail for now (when it get released)	11:45
Mece	FIQ, disabling extras, testing, and devel gives me about 19Mb	11:46
gouverneur	FIQ: you just disable the repos, update database and you should be fine (give it a try and have a look what happens with your free space if you disable all but nokias needed)	11:46
gouverneur	Mece: thats what I am talking about	11:46
FIQ	hm	11:46
FIQ	ok, i will try	11:47
lcuk	FIQ, go into ham manager and disable extras devel and testing and see how much extra space you gain instantly	11:47
Mece	is there an update out?	11:47
lcuk	not that i know of :D	11:47
gouverneur	Mece: nope	11:47
Mece	ok.	11:47
FIQ	uh	11:48
FIQ	O_o	11:48
FIQ	i have devel	11:48
FIQ	but not testing	11:48
gouverneur	but it keeps me showing one in ham with old version number and after apt-get upgrade (nothing installed or upgraded) it is gone	11:48
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FIQ	rootfs 227.9M 176.8M 46.9M 79% /	11:49
gouverneur	here we go!	11:49
FIQ	when i disable extras, joikuspot, amsn, mozilla, devel	11:49
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FIQ	disabled*	11:49
gouverneur	amsn mozilla?	11:49
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FIQ	amsn for... well, aMSN	11:50
FIQ	mozilla for fennec, i guess	11:50
gouverneur	ok	11:51
gouverneur	cause thats all in the normal repos (well not amsn but the plugins for it)	11:51
gouverneur	will skype get the cam inout?	11:53
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ameng	exit	11:57
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* lupine_85 installs the Qt SDK for a play		12:14
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KelloggsFrosties	hi folks. is this the right place to ask a question concerning programming qt ui for maemo (n900)?	12:17
mikhas	no	12:19
mikhas	but #qt-maemo might be	12:19
KelloggsFrosties	mikhas: thanks a lot!	12:19
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tybollt	mmmh frosties	12:24
* tybollt tilts heads backwards and drools plentifully		12:25
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corecode_	i didn't find joikuspot	12:49
corecode_	does it exist for maemo5?	12:49
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tybollt	yes	12:51
tybollt	corecode_: you have to look it up at joikusofts own homepage, it's not ina maemo repos	12:51
ccooke	Morning, all	12:52
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corecode_	free or $$?	12:54
tybollt	free for now but it is still beta (and the quality is quite beta indeed	12:54
tybollt	)	12:54
corecode_	i see	12:55
corecode_	thanks	12:55
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Khertan	Hi all !	12:57
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* Arif_ yawns		13:00
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D-Iivil	Someone here who can see what's wrong with extras-devel -repo not putting builded .debs to the pool?	13:14
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Sampppa_	D-Iivil, it will take some time?	13:14
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Stskeeps	D-Iivil: look at the -developers list, there was a announcement re PR1.2	13:15
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D-Iivil	Sammpa_: yeah, but now it's taking more than usually. Usually debs are appearing http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/ here almost as soon as the build is success.	13:15
D-Iivil	Stskeeps, where to look?	13:15
DocScrutinizer	moroning	13:15
Jaffa	X-Fade: ping	13:15
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Stskeeps	2- Maemo 5 PR1.2 will ship with Extras enabled by default but will use	13:16
Stskeeps	distribution: fremantle-1.2	13:16
Stskeeps	- 'older' devices will continue to fetch from distribution: fremantle	13:16
Stskeeps	- Autobuilder will be updated when PR1.2 is released and promotion will	13:16
Stskeeps	only happen to fremantle-1.2	13:16
Stskeeps	This will effectively mean that the 'old' Extras will not get any updates.	13:16
hrw	~curse badly venomrush for being #@%$@%@ - bug 6933	13:16
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6933 Alarm times are shown wrong	13:16
Jaffa	D-Iivil: Ah, hang on this is similar to what I wanted to ask X-Fade about: I've promoted something from -testing to Extras this morning and it's not moved anywhere yet	13:16
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, badly venomrush for being #@%$@%@ - bug 6933 !	13:16
Jaffa	http://maemo.org/packages/view/catorise/	13:16
hrw	can someone with a bit of free time look at bug 6933 and check it on device?	13:17
Jaffa	hrw: One bit of information which may be relevant is N900 timezone...	13:18
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Jaffa	hrw: But "TRIGGER;VALUE=DURATION:-PT1H45M" in the vcs seems fairly clear.	13:18
hrw	exactly	13:19
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Jaffa	hrw: What's the date of the event in the ICS? I just imported it and it showed me no alarm info at all	13:21
Ken-Young	Stskeeps, I checked a new version of my app (orrery) into Extras-testing last night, but of course I can't promote it to Extras without getting votes and sitting through quaraantine. Will I be able to promote it to Extras for 1.1, or is it already too late for that?	13:22
Stskeeps	no idea, ask X-Fade	13:22
D-Iivil	So at the moment it's not worth to upload anything to extras devel?	13:22
hrw	Jaffa: have to check it	13:23
Jaffa	hrw: found it - 2010-01-15	13:23
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hrw	shit. in PR1.2 calendar I cannot find 'import'	13:25
X-Fade	Ken-Young: You are just in time if you hit promote now ;)	13:25
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X-Fade	D-Iivil: Sure it is.	13:26
X-Fade	Jaffa: Which package?	13:26
Jaffa	X-Fade: Catorise. 0.7.4 in Extras; promoted 0.8.0 from -Testing this morning, but repo hasn't changed (and so neither has /downloads/)	13:27
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D-Iivil	X-Fade: But packages aren't going to be imported to the pool at the moment?	13:28
Ken-Young	X-Fade, THanks - I hit promote last night, so it went from Devel to Testing, but of course I can't promote out of Testing until I go through QA and quarantine.	13:28
X-Fade	Ken-Young: That doesn't matter. Time of entry matters.	13:28
X-Fade	D-Iivil: They should. Nothing changed there.	13:28
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Ken-Young	X-Fade, Good. I've got some bug fixes in the new version, and I'd hate to have the 1.1 Extras version frozen with bugs.	13:29
D-Iivil	X-Fade: can you check what's wrong with these packages: d-theme-bright-blue, d-theme-bright-green, d-theme-bright-orange, d-theme-bright-pink	13:29
X-Fade	Ah, wait something is holding up the queue.	13:29
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D-Iivil	They got built just fine, but won't appear on extras-devel pool.	13:29
X-Fade	python-beautifulsoup promotion fails.	13:30
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pupnik	http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7345/1.html NILFS filesystem for solid state drives. logs, versions, rollbackss	13:30
hrw	Jaffa: looks like I need to create test event for 2015 so it will be still ok before nokia decided to fix	13:31
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X-Fade	Hmm again an app which has different version number on the filename from the one in control file.	13:31
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Jaffa	hrw: ;-)	13:32
D-Iivil	Btw does someone know if can update my SDK to 1.2 somehow easily?	13:33
D-Iivil	Would be nice to test out what needs to be changes with themes for PR1.2	13:33
Jaffa	D-Iivil: apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade works according to the release notes	13:33
hrw	D-Iivil: apt-get update/upgrade	13:33
Jaffa	D-Iivil: Obviously, they need to be fakeroot'ed.	13:34
Sampppa_	with fakeroot	13:34
D-Iivil	Shall give it a try :)	13:34
* Jaffa did it this morning and Catorise doesn't die horribly with the new menu-reordering code		13:34
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X-Fade	Jaffa: No, I've been using it for a while. Works fine.	13:34
Stskeeps	D-Iivil: i will need to upgrade the theme template on gitorious, i may have time tonight for doing it	13:34
Chikulinu__	does PR1.2 released?	13:34
Jaffa	Chikulinu__: SDK is.	13:34
* Jaffa wonders if anyone's taken the ARMEL packages from the SDK and run them on device yet ;-)		13:35
Sampppa_	i guess some people did already :)	13:35
nidO	MohammedAG tried at least	13:35
D-Iivil	Oh.. what file did I have to edit inside scratchbox to manually enter new network settings (ip, gateway etc)?	13:35
hrw	Jaffa: I did - had to reflash	13:35
Chikulinu__	about the flash file?	13:35
D-Iivil	We got new router today and gateway changed and my scratchbox won't go online anymore :P	13:35
Chikulinu__	I want to reflash my n900	13:36
Stskeeps	/scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf , D-Iivil	13:36
D-Iivil	Stskeeps, thanks!	13:36
X-Fade	Jaffa: catorise got through now.	13:36
Jaffa	X-Fade: Cool, ta	13:36
hrw	Jaffa: catorise 0.8.0 breaks pr1.2 sdk	13:36
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Jaffa	hrw: Not IME	13:36
Jaffa	hrw: I tested this morning, reproduction instructions welcome on https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Catorise ;-)	13:36
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hrw	Jaffa: so far I just removed it from sdk - no time for more tests now	13:37
Jaffa	X-Fade: How long does it take for /downloads/ to get updated from the repo?	13:37
Jaffa	hrw: Can you define "break" a bit more then?	13:37
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nidO	X-Fade: any idea what happened to libmikmod2, there's a bit of mud slinging going on in the gltron qa comments about it	13:37
Jaffa	hrw: I didn't have Catorise installed before upgrading...	13:37
X-Fade	Jaffa: up to 2x 30 mins.	13:37
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hrw	Jaffa: press tasks to get to list of categories, select 'all'	13:38
X-Fade	nidO: libmikmod2 is violating the packaging policy.	13:38
Jaffa	X-Fade: Right. These lags make releasing software really tedious btw, since updating changelog/screenshots has an indeterminate lag.	13:38
X-Fade	nidO: The files are named libmikmod and the control file talks about libmikmod2.	13:38
Jaffa	hrw: What happened?	13:38
nidO	ah	13:38
hrw	Jaffa: hildon-desktop crashed	13:38
* hrw wants maemo to use lintian...		13:38
Chikulinu__	the PR1.2 .bin file will enabled to download after or as time PR1.2 wil be released?	13:39
Jaffa	hrw: Ah.	13:39
hrw	~curse nokia so called developers	13:39
Jaffa	hrw: What apps have you got installed in the SDK?	13:39
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia so called developers !	13:39
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hrw	Jaffa: different, strange etc ones	13:39
hrw	Jaffa: will pastebin dpkg -l	13:39
Jaffa	hrw: ta	13:39
X-Fade	Jaffa: There isn't much I can do, the package has to be visible to the world first.	13:40
X-Fade	Jaffa: Otherwise people will try to download the app and get an older version.	13:40
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Shapeshifter	mh. has someone developed a desktop widget using python qt bindings before? I see an example qt desktop widget with some stuff in C++ needed to run it. are there even bindings for that stuff?	13:40
hrw	Jaffa: http://hrw.pastebin.com/Pbdju0Zq	13:40
Jaffa	hrw: ta	13:41
X-Fade	quick lunch before switching sdk on builder.	13:41
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Jaffa	X-Fade: Indeed, but one could imagine stuff happening not in a background, scheduled, 30-mins process ;-)	13:42
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hrw	Jaffa: bug 6933 updated - can you check and confirm?	13:48
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6933 Alarm times are shown wrong	13:48
Jaffa	hrw: Will do	13:48
hrw	thx	13:48
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hrw	15th January 2015 - nokia maemo5 calendar will still be affected by #6933 and I will have to dig in drawer of obsoleted devices just to update example event	13:50
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D-Iivil	Anyone knows how can I pop out the virtual keyboard on SDK PR1.2?	13:51
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Jaffa	hrw: Confirmed.	13:52
D-Iivil	Nevermind, found the settings :)	13:52
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hrw	gracias Jaffa	13:53
Jaffa	hrw: np	13:54
* Jaffa is in touting-for-votes mode ;-)		13:54
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hrw	Jaffa: votes where?	13:56
N900evil	with your delicious cakes?	13:56
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D-Iivil	Some spammer has made it to talk.maemo.org: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=580093#post580093	13:56
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D-Iivil	X-Fade: ping	14:02
Jaffa	hrw: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_election_Q1_2010	14:04
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hrw	Jaffa: already voted	14:06
hrw	Jaffa: you were one of 3 people for which I voted	14:06
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* Stskeeps votes		14:07
X-Fade	D-Iivil: pong	14:07
D-Iivil	X-Fade: did you get that extras-devel queue sorted out?	14:08
Jaffa	hrw: ta :)	14:09
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* Stskeeps has no idea what he has done to his Boxee but is pretty satisfied that it mutes the sound on hulu advertisements		14:10
Arif_	adblock? :D	14:12
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X-Fade	D-Iivil: Should be ok now.	14:14
D-Iivil	X-Fade: so it seems, thanks :)	14:14
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odin_	whois is tri@bcs.org.uk and what is his/her role ?	14:18
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hrw	good question	14:20
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hrw	~seen venomrush	14:22
infobot	venomrush <~opera@188-221-102-245.zone12.bethere.co.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 14d 13h 20m 53s ago, saying: 'to select the other mode'.	14:22
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Arif_	D-Iivil, are you the one making those livilsteel themes?	14:23
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D-Iivil	Arit_ yes	14:25
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X-Fade	Ok, builder switched to PR1.2 SDK.	14:25
hrw	now half year for pr1.2 on devices	14:26
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X-Fade	Nah, it won't be that long.	14:26
* D-Iivil just voted :) Now it's a cigarette time!		14:27
hrw	no one knows	14:27
hrw	X-Fade: and do not say 'next week' - konttori told that 2 months ago	14:29
lcuk	whats the subject of the voting open email for the election	14:30
X-Fade	The only thing I can say is that SDK and firmware image versions tend to match, draw conclusions from that ;)	14:30
odin_	is there a good 2 months round up on the state of Maemo ?	14:30
hrw	lcuk: Maemo Community Council election Q1 2010	14:30
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Arif_	D-Iivil, cool..I really like those themes :D	14:30
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lcuk	thanks hrw	14:31
lcuk	the title on the actual page that requests the token is slightly different	14:31
D-Iivil	Arif_: :) I though you were gonna give some bad feedback :D Glad you like 'em.	14:31
lcuk	"elections"	14:31
lcuk	and gmail didnt find it \@	14:31
Arif_	D-Iivil, I don't ALWAYS complain.....just mostly :P	14:32
tybollt	~seen infobot	14:32
infobot	tybollt: i haven't seen 'infobot'	14:32
D-Iivil	Arif_: good attitude ;)	14:32
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* RST38h moos evilly		14:34
RST38h	X-Fade: Judging from the SDK screenshots there have not been many visible changes...True?	14:35
* Arif_ throws milk at RST38h		14:35
hrw	RST38h: yep	14:35
X-Fade	RST38h: No comment ;)	14:35
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rmrfchik	as new sdk5 came out, i downloaded vmdk. And know what? It's the same old sdk. damn, 1.6 gig of crap.	14:36
* Arif_ already has an enhancement bug report when pr1.2 comes out :D		14:36
RST38h	X-Fade: At least tell me if the device still lights up when you plug it into the charger	14:36
D-Iivil	rmrfchik: run apt-get update / upgrade	14:36
RST38h	(which is damn annoying)	14:36
D-Iivil	inside the scratchbox	14:36
* rmrfchik full of enchancements		14:36
MiXu-	RST38h: Why is it annoying?	14:36
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D-Iivil	rmrfchik: with fakeroot first	14:37
RST38h	MiXu: Because when I have the device locked (with the switch) I expect it to REMAIN locked.	14:37
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MiXu-	oh, that	14:37
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RST38h	MiXu: It should not unlock on its own when plugged in	14:37
MiXu-	true	14:37
X-Fade	RST38h: unlocks	14:37
RST38h	X-Fade: <sigh> :(	14:38
Arif_	it does	14:38
Arif_	:D	14:38
Arif_	apparently they haven't done anything to the media player ={	14:38
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MiXu-	What's wrong with the Media Player? :D	14:38
nidO	the upnp bug is apparently sorted, thats by far the biggest one for me	14:38
X-Fade	Arif_: How would you know?	14:38
D-Iivil	Don't really like the new virtual keyboard layout, but it's nice not to need skin the vkeyboard anymore since it seems to use stylus button style :)	14:39
RST38h	MiXu: Is there something that is RIGHT about it?	14:39
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Arif_	X-Fade, MohammadAG's thread?	14:39
RST38h	Arif: Well they should have at least enabled the "Remove from playlist" option in the context menu	14:39
RST38h	Arif: If it is still not there.... mhm	14:39
MiXu-	I've been fooling around with it so long that maybe I'm blinded by it already	14:39
X-Fade	Arif_: Mediaplayer is not in SDK?	14:39
RST38h	MiXu: Try removing a song from the playlist.	14:39
Arif_	X-Fade, no? I didn't know that	14:40
RST38h	MiXu: ONCE song	14:40
MiXu-	I don't use playlists :)	14:40
RST38h	One	14:40
* Arif_ gets hope again :)		14:40
RST38h	MiXu: Try playing a random file (as opposed to whatever Tracker lets you play)	14:40
* Arif_ wants a "search" button in the top menu		14:40
RST38h	MiXu: try invoking the UI while watching a long (>15min) video	14:40
RST38h	MiXU: Try using the desktop media player applet, see if it works after a few days of uptime	14:41
MiXu-	none of the desktop things work after a few days :)	14:41
RST38h	Funny thing is, I can actually continue with these =)	14:41
hrw	try to play album in normal (not random) order	14:41
hrw	etc etc etc	14:41
MiXu-	Even the shortcuts don't work. Or at least there's a horrible latency.	14:41
Arif_	try repeating one item	14:41
Arif_	=D	14:41
MiXu-	Why would i want to :)	14:41
Arif_	no idea =D	14:42
Arif_	oh and you can't send anything in the media player either	14:42
hrw	because chick which lies with you in bed asked you for it?	14:42
MiXu-	hrw: Then I can just replay it manually :)	14:42
MiXu-	If it's a 3 minute song, it'll be long enough. ;)	14:43
hrw	and agan and again?	14:43
hrw	easier to select one song to play in repeat	14:43
* hrw -> food		14:43
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rmrfchik	hmm, how to open virtual keyboard in "emulator"?	14:47
D-Iivil	rmrfchik: you first need to go to settings and enable it.	14:48
D-Iivil	I was wondering the same thing earlier :)	14:48
rmrfchik	I have only app manager	14:48
D-Iivil	rmrfchik: open menu, then settings and so on.	14:49
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rmrfchik	hmm... no network settings	14:49
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ptl	I wonder if yakuake or guake would compile and run in the N900?	15:16
ptl	How would they behave?	15:16
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Sho_	yakuake would probably compile and run at this point, whether the window manager works well with it is another question though	15:17
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hrw	rather not	15:20
madduck	what is up with not being able to send contact cards? whether email, sms, or bluetooth, after I get asked about sending the avatar, nothing happens	15:20
madduck	(this is with the n900)	15:20
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hrw	mb-wm2 runs all windows as fullscreen ones	15:20
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tremby	hey folks. has anyone tried running MPD (Music Player Daemon) on Maemo? i have an N900. Google searches just turn up a bunch of posts about people having problems getting their N900s from what i assume is a shop or company called MPD...	15:21
bleader	you mean a mpd client or the real deamon ?	15:22
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tremby	the daemon	15:22
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tremby	i'm hating the music player which comes with it	15:23
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bleader	I haven't tried, just using the n900 with cutempc to control mpd at home	15:23
tremby	ok	15:24
thp	tremby: grab the debian source package and try to compile it in scratchbox	15:24
tremby	thp: any idea how much effort that'll be? to get dependencies and everything	15:24
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madduck	how else could i extract a contact from the n900?	15:25
wizkoder	hy everybody	15:26
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wizkoder	when I use libcrypto++ is there a way to get it running on the N900? Read the lib exists for arm architechture too but I can't find it with apt-get there	15:27
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thp	tremby: don't know - try it out. with some dependencies you can simply choose to disable the feature that depends on it. for other dependencies, you can simply grab them from debian again and recurse	15:28
tremby	yeah it's the recursing that i'm worried about -- i haven't done this before and it sounds like it could be a rabbit hole...	15:29
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tremby	but if i have a spare few hours later maybe i'll give it a go	15:29
tremby	is there a guide somewhere for building things in scratchbox?	15:30
X-Fade	thp: You should now be able to use the sharing-dialogs etc on the builder.	15:30
tybollt	mmmmh rabbit, glazed w/ honey and butter... grilled to perfection in a preheated oven... drools	15:30
thp	looking at "apt-cache depends mpd" it does not look so bad. simply disable faad/flac/jack/mikmod/...	15:30
thp	X-Fade: awesome! thanks :)	15:30
tremby	thp: ok, i'll give it a go. thanks.	15:32
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D-Iivil	Anyone having problems with SDK 1.2 browser crashing after typing the address and pressing enter?	15:35
Stskeeps	that's a problem in Xephyr i think..	15:36
D-Iivil	Actually it seems to crash even when clicking any of the default bookmark.	15:36
Stskeeps	or Xorg	15:36
D-Iivil	Would be nice to see how browser is changed and so on.	15:36
D-Iivil	App manager also won't find anything to install after upgrading the sdk.	15:36
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thp	X-Fade: so the pre-1.2 fremantle autobuilder has already been deactivated, right?	15:38
D-Iivil	thp: not deactivated, it's activated I suppose.	15:38
X-Fade	thp: Yes, it only builds against PR1.2 (update5) now.	15:39
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TigerTael	D-Iivil, I don't get this problem.	15:40
hrw	X-Fade: apps which are in extras will get rebuilt and will get version bumped?	15:40
X-Fade	hrw: No.	15:40
D-Iivil	TigerTael: Damn... even restarting the Xephyr didn't fix it for me.	15:40
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hrw	X-Fade: so expect apps which do not work in 1.2	15:41
D-Iivil	X-Fade: but apps in extras are still installable from there?	15:41
X-Fade	hrw: Basically everything runs when going from 1.1 to 1.2	15:41
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hrw	X-Fade: qt4.5 ones too?	15:41
D-Iivil	X-Fade: I mean what will happen to "old" extras -repo?	15:41
X-Fade	hrw: Yes.	15:41
tekojo	hrw yes	15:41
tekojo	hrw we have tried a bunch of those	15:41
X-Fade	Quite a lot actually ;)	15:41
hrw	ok	15:41
X-Fade	D-Iivil: It will remain there, but static.	15:42
hrw	I had to uninstall many apps when tried to upgrade n900 to 1.2/sdk packages but I have testing+devel apps	15:42
D-Iivil	X-Fade: okay, so it will be visible for end users as it has been now and all the apps etc can be seen via app manager? Cool then :)	15:42
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X-Fade	D-Iivil: yes, only from the point we switch of the promotion for it, it will remain as it is at that point in time.	15:43
X-Fade	We can safely allow promotions for another 9 days ;)	15:44
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MohammadAG	<D-Iivil> Actually it seems to crash even when clicking any of the default bookmark.	15:44
MohammadAG	apt-get dist-upgrade	15:44
madduck	this really sucks, I cannot get a contact off my device.	15:44
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MohammadAG	fakeroot apt-get dist-upgrade *	15:44
Arif_	madduck, export and send with petrovich?	15:45
D-Iivil	MohammadAG: thanks, will try it :)	15:45
madduck	how do i export?	15:45
madduck	Arif_: ^	15:45
MohammadAG	tap menu bar	15:45
MohammadAG	title bar*	15:45
MohammadAG	and export	15:45
Arif_	should be an option to export contacts	15:45
madduck	oh, all contats	15:45
Arif_	when you poke the top	15:45
madduck	found it	15:45
madduck	thanks for the pointer	15:46
redeeman	wtf	15:47
redeeman	my N900 just shut off	15:47
Arif_	turn it back on	15:47
hd1	mine just spontaneously rebooted as well	15:47
* hd1 wonders if something more sinister is going on		15:47
Arif_	mine says 14:49	15:47
redeeman	it won't turn on - it shows the logo, the thingie to progress, then off	15:48
Arif_	congrats	15:48
Arif_	you bricked it	15:48
MohammadAG	mine rebooted now	15:48
redeeman	by reading an email?	15:48
hd1	yay, redeeman! :)	15:48
MohammadAG	(just stirring up a Y2K rumor, ignore that :P)	15:48
Arif_	redeeman, gotta love Nokia software :D	15:48
hrw	MohammadAG: 1.1.1 or manually forced to 1.2/sdk?	15:48
redeeman	hd1: did yours really reboot?	15:49
hd1	MohammadAG: oh, no... I was stirring up an evil-eu theory	15:49
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hd1	redeeman: aye	15:49
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hd1	but, to be perfectly honest, I did force the issue	15:49
redeeman	when it turns off, it fades the led	15:49
Arif_	has anyone noticed that when the phone turns off the led is less blue then when it turns on?	15:50
MohammadAG	hrw, jk, but I'm on PR1.1.1	15:50
Arif_	;P	15:50
MohammadAG	Arif_, cause it's white	15:50
Arif_	thats not white	15:51
Arif_	looks like blue ....	15:51
GuySoft	hi all, is there a way to get SIP going on a nokia n810? whats the best client?	15:52
MohammadAG	PatternPowerOff=10;3;0;rgb;9d80400001ff43ff7f007f00c000;9d800000 Arif_	15:52
MohammadAG	white	15:52
hrw	GuySoft: internal one is enough	15:52
Arif_	Nokia has a weird sense of white then	15:52
* hd1 pops the battery out		15:52
hrw	GuySoft: run controlpanel -> accounts and add SIP there	15:52
GuySoft	hrw, i can't seem to get it to make calls	15:52
hd1	wtf man... now, the bloody thing won't turn on?!? :)	15:52
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Arif_	lol	15:53
hrw	GuySoft: I have same problem with one operator	15:53
MohammadAG	Arif_, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/RGB_illumination.jpg	15:53
Khertan	Hello again	15:53
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TigerTael	hrw, haha, yeah, I remember when I took the battery out with the USB plugged in.	15:53
Arif_	yeah,but white doesn't look like white on the N900 LED	15:53
redeeman	hd1: i made mien turn on now	15:53
hrw	TigerTael: ?	15:53
redeeman	by inserting to charger	15:54
redeeman	then waited ~4 min	15:54
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hd1	haha redeeman	15:54
redeeman	but it was not out of power	15:54
TigerTael	hrw, soz I meant hd1.	15:54
redeeman	i had just recharged it this morning	15:54
hd1	oh i thought it was out of power sorry	15:54
redeeman	well in case it was, it would have used the power in a few hours, and the indicator would have been broken	15:55
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hd1	Tiger: I'm just a right git, what can i say?	15:55
GuySoft	hrw, nevermind, got it :)	15:55
TigerTael	ah ;/	15:55
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hd1	serious query, though, seeing much grumblings about maemo 6, is this a reality yet?	15:56
TigerTael	The grumblings sure are a reality...	15:57
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hd1	Tiger: to be sure, but is maemo 6?	15:59
TigerTael	maemo 6 will be an iteration of Meego.	15:59
TigerTael	And not actually called Maemo 6.	15:59
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MarcusM	Heya	16:05
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tigert	hey thp	16:07
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X-Fade	t-tan: fiasco-gen only for armel?	16:09
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* MohammadAG is upgrading to Ubuntu 10.04 beta		16:09
t-tan	X-Fade: I guess I'll make all packages armel-only.	16:10
* Arif_ runs windows update		16:11
Arif_	aww..no updates ;(	16:11
* MarcusM wonders when Linux Mint will have 10.04		16:11
X-Fade	t-tan: Does it actually make sense to make an i386 version?	16:11
t-tan	X-Fade: I don't think so. if someone wants to build kernel modules they can use the Nokia kernel headers	16:12
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X-Fade	t-tan: Yeah, but anyway, device specific modules won't run on i386.	16:12
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t-tan	X-Fade: yep. If at all i386 kernel-headers would only be for convenience, which true kernel hackers don't need...	16:14
* MohammadAG just found out why Joikuspot didn't work for him, custom linux kernel		16:16
MohammadAG	it uses some bouncer.ko file	16:16
hrw	GuySoft: what was wrong?	16:16
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t-tan	MohammadAG: is it some proprietary binary module?	16:19
X-Fade	t-tan: no, source is on their site.	16:20
MohammadAG	kernel module, seems like it	16:20
MohammadAG	X-Fade, where?	16:20
firestorm	i love the n900, got mine on monday and it's brillant :D mates the g1 look crap	16:20
X-Fade	http://www.joikusoft.com/GPL/	16:20
MohammadAG	X-Fade, thanks	16:21
MarcusM	firestorm: Good to hear that. I'm trying to save up for one. Probably got it within the next month.	16:21
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t-tan	X-Fade: did I just build the first PR1.2 extras package?	16:26
X-Fade	t-tan: Looks like it.	16:26
N900evil	firestorm, yes.	16:26
t-tan	cool. it's always good to start with essential things.. :)	16:27
MohammadAG	t-tan, are you titan?	16:27
firestorm	quick question, installing a file from maemo.org whats best way of installing it on my phone via x term or via the app manager?	16:27
t-tan	MohammadAG: yes	16:27
MohammadAG	t-tan, tsk tsk, looks like I don't need to tell you about joikuspot in the thread	16:28
MohammadAG	stopped writing the reply lol	16:28
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GuySoft	hrw, some proxy setting on the sip	16:32
t-tan	MohammadAG: does it work if you copy the module to the custom modules directory?	16:33
MohammadAG	t-tan, I'll check, reflashed my N900 yesterday and was looking for what Joikuspot installs	16:33
firestorm	any one?	16:33
MohammadAG	then found the .ko file	16:33
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MohammadAG	installing the kernel now	16:33
N900evil	hmm	16:34
t-tan	MohammadAG: I could add it to the kernel in the next version...	16:34
N900evil	firefox on device with all-in-one mousegestures works ok.	16:34
N900evil	well - using the device as a displ6	16:35
N900evil	ay	16:35
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MohammadAG	t-tan, I'll check in a bit, this 18.4kB/s 2min0s isn't helping	16:36
MohammadAG	get about 600 from the Ubuntu repos, not sure why	16:36
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toggles_w	n8?	16:42
MohammadAG	t-tan, rebooting	16:43
firestorm	can u download a .install file from command line pakg?	16:43
MohammadAG	t-tan, may I ask why the kernel is in non-free?	16:43
MohammadAG	firestorm, you can use wget to download files in terminal	16:43
MohammadAG	cat to see the contents	16:44
MohammadAG	nano or vi to add the repo, and apt-get to install it	16:44
firestorm	trying to download rootsh throguh app manager and not happening	16:44
t-tan	MohammadAG: it was till today because it depends on non-free sd-fiasco-gen, which was missing on autobuilder	16:44
firestorm	got the .install file on the phone allready	16:44
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MohammadAG	t-tan, so it's in free now?	16:45
X-Fade	t-tan: Shall I remove the non-fre one now?	16:45
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t-tan	X-Fade: please keep it for the < PR1.2 people	16:46
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X-Fade	t-tan: I think it will work on < 1.2 too?	16:46
t-tan	MohammadAG: the latest version 17 is in free, it's the same as version 14 in non-free	16:47
X-Fade	t-tan: fiasco gen was in 1.1 already?	16:47
firestorm	or does it nto work like that MohammadAG ?	16:47
t-tan	X-Fade: yes, it already works. but if it's only in fremantle1.2 some people can't install it, correct?	16:47
MohammadAG	firestorm, what fw you on?	16:48
X-Fade	t-tan: No, extras-devel and testing have no specific repo.	16:48
X-Fade	t-tan: only extras will have one.	16:48
firestorm	latest one :p let me check	16:48
t-tan	X-Fade: but autobuilder was PR1.0, you should know :)	16:48
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firestorm	2.2009.51-1.203.2...	16:48
nidO	srsly. whats the chance of getting a themes category back for the repos? :<	16:49
MohammadAG	that's not the latest one	16:49
X-Fade	t-tan: Yes, but extras-devel is considered unstable anyway.	16:49
t-tan	X-Fade: ok, I see. then please remove it as soon as the free one is imported	16:49
firestorm	ah, the phone did a massive update when i connected to net etc.	16:49
X-Fade	t-tan: free one is already visible in packages.	16:50
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t-tan	X-Fade: ok, I was just checking the webpage	16:50
tybollt	god damn mother f*****	16:50
firestorm	were can i et latest one from?	16:50
tybollt	OOo ate itself after editing a long doco and it managed to corrupt the saved copy	16:51
tybollt	GOD FSCWERIOQFJKIOQIW DAMNIT	16:51
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Stskeeps	vim++	16:51
Stskeeps	:P	16:51
mgedmin	version control too	16:52
tybollt	ja, really, every emacs, LeX and vim user should dance on my grave right now - I deserve it :)	16:53
Stskeeps	LaTeX	16:53
Stskeeps	:P	16:53
firestorm	were can i get latest firmware from then	16:53
* andrewfblack thinks some theme designers need to learn Quality over Quantity		16:54
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nidO	MOAR COLOURS!	16:54
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MohammadAG	t-tan, the JoikuSpot_Bouncer.ko file is in /usr/bin	16:55
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Khertan	firestorm: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/	16:57
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MohammadAG	or use HAM (app manager) to update	16:58
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firestorm	RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8.203.1_PR_COMBINED_203_ARM.bin 171136705 PR 1.1.1 version 3.2010.02-8 Latest Maemo 5 UK variant for Nokia N900	17:00
firestorm	i guess that the latest version?	17:00
Khertan	yep	17:00
tybollt	yes	17:00
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tybollt	1.1.1	17:00
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MohammadAG	Firehand,	17:00
MohammadAG	umm sorry, meant to highlight firestorm	17:01
firestorm	lets run the good old ap manager n see what it comes up with	17:01
madduck	is it not possible to associate an existing contact with My Information on the n900?	17:01
MohammadAG	that will remove everything except MyDocs	17:01
MohammadAG	be sure to backup	17:01
firestorm	there is nothing on it lol i've not got that far setting it up :p	17:01
firestorm	gutted it don't sync with the ovi website either, would been so easier importnating contacts from g1	17:02
MohammadAG	this is new	17:02
MohammadAG	NOTE: Always flash the FIASCO image first, then the eMMC image immediately after that. Never boot up the device between flashing the FIASCO image and the eMMC image!	17:02
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andrewfblack	does it make me an A Hole or a Prick for not sharing Bug Fixes for theme with theme designers I don't like?	17:03
Khertan	nope :=)	17:03
andrewfblack	good	17:04
Khertan	and not also to publish your theme on your own repository instead of maemo extras	17:04
Khertan	:)	17:04
Khertan	but noone will like you here	17:04
Khertan	:)	17:04
andrewfblack	Khertan: you hiding stuff in your own repo now?	17:04
hrw	flashing eMMC is only for those who got their n900 in amsterdam	17:05
firestorm	hmm intresting, over wireless it can't find no update but over 3g it does	17:05
firestorm	rated	17:05
Khertan	andrewfblack: yes ... i've created my own repository ...	17:05
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madduck	oh nokia, your N900 cannot sync with the E71	17:05
Khertan	andrewfblack: i'm just waiting that all my packages are remove from the maemo one	17:05
firestorm	£not enough battery power to install Maemo update. start charingw not and try again" yet i've got half batterty	17:05
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Khertan	as ham ignore application that are in extras ... even if version is newer in external repository	17:06
madduck	all contacts always get copied both ways, leading to exponential growth of your address book	17:06
slackmagic	MohammadAG: ever came across someone purchasing a n900 in the USA and where the fm transmitter didn't work? No matter what I have done, it simply appears it's working but it's not transmitting. Anyways, the n900 is going back for a replacement, hopefully that will fix it but was just wondering :)	17:06
andrewfblack	Khertan: bad Khertan lol how are you getting them removed from extras?	17:06
MohammadAG	slackmagic, I got it from the US	17:06
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slackmagic	MohammadAG: and your fm transmitter is working right?	17:07
Khertan	andrewfblack: but i ll finish to implement syntax hilighting theme in pygtkeditor ... but i think i ll stop maemo development after that	17:07
MohammadAG	FMTX works, but even frequencies are blocked (xx.2/4/6/8/0)	17:07
MohammadAG	slackmagic, is it disabled?	17:07
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andrewfblack	Wait you getting out of Maemo development?!!!	17:07
andrewfblack	I thought you were just moving stuff to new repo?	17:07
slackmagic	MohammadAG: that's what I was wondering, but even if it stated it was in enabled mode, it still wouldn't work	17:08
Khertan	andrewfblack: ask to the mailing list ... be blamed for that many and many times .... then ask again ...	17:08
Khertan	then delete your garage account ... as some guys say ... yes but it s a lot of work ... and if you upload package again to extras ?	17:08
* slackmagic wonders on a sidenote what kind of screen protector/case protector to get when the replacement n900 arrives. He might as well just protect it from the get-go		17:08
Khertan	andrewfblack: i don't know yet ... but to be honest ... this story pissing me of ... so i ll probably do development for me	17:09
MohammadAG	slackmagic, I mean disabled from the software side, as in not allowed in your country/state	17:09
firestorm	there was a nice case on the fourms slackmagic lookd nice n leather!!! from china 40 od $	17:09
Khertan	andrewfblack: but don't know yet if i ll do it available ...	17:09
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andrewfblack	Khertan: Some of your things like py2deb have meant alot to me	17:10
Khertan	andrewfblack: thx	17:10
slackmagic	MohammadAG: i read about that, but I flashed, I reflashed, still wasn't working, and since I've read of so many that it should be working when purchased in the US, I figured it's probably just my phone	17:10
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Khertan	andrewfblack: it ll still be available on my own repository ... but there ll be no evolution	17:11
MohammadAG	well if the new one doesn't work download and install fmtx-faker, should enable disabled ones and enable all frequencies for US ones	17:11
slackmagic	firestorm: yes there are some that are really nice. I'm more like interested in those that you put onto your phone like the zagg invisshield, heard good and bad things about it though...perhaps someone might have found a better solution in regards to that	17:11
MohammadAG	hopefully it comes working out of the box :)	17:11
Khertan	andrewfblack: can i suggest you to use pypackager ... this one is still maintained	17:11
slackmagic	MohammadAG: yep, hoping for that. Will ship it off today and go back playing on my G1 rofl	17:11
Khertan	and have some feature that py2deb didn't have	17:11
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andrewfblack	Khertan: ok	17:12
Khertan	there isn't many change to migrate script to use pypackager instead of py2deb ...	17:12
Khertan	but i must write a tutorial ... :)	17:13
Khertan	i ll try to found some motivation to do it soon	17:13
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firestorm	yer i'm scared of dropping it or denting it n cracking casing!!!!! in my line of work not the best phone	17:13
tybollt	firestorm: you work as ..?	17:14
firestorm	well i'm in i.t	17:14
andrewfblack	I'm about to go back to using pypackager again because I'm am not happy with having extra building my themes for me, I would rather just upload the already prepared theme.	17:14
firestorm	but i do banger racing so playing with cars all the time etc. etc.	17:14
firestorm	also cracked G1 screen on the go kart track i work at!!!!	17:14
nidO	tip 1: dont take your delicate expensive phone with you when you're banger racing.	17:14
nidO	tip 2: if you have to ignore 1, buy a moto droid	17:15
tybollt	oh?	17:15
tybollt	the moto droid is a sturdy piece then?	17:15
nidO	the screen's made of gorilla glass	17:15
firestorm	it's not that normally put it on roof of car on in the van etc	17:15
tybollt	nidO: gorilla? :S	17:15
nidO	you could utterly destroy the rest of the device before even scratching the screen	17:15
firestorm	will just have to be carefull it's insured :p	17:16
nidO	its essentially indestructable unscratchable glass made by Corning	17:16
tybollt	god knows the N900 glass is not indistructable... I know first hand :D	17:16
N900evil	what did you do?	17:17
nidO	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ope6uViLcEY	17:17
nidO	worth a look	17:17
Khertan	andrewfblack: pypackager can do in his last version create the debian package, create the source package ... or the both :)	17:17
andrewfblack	Khertan: nice	17:18
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[Anti]	hi there	17:18
tybollt	N900evil: oh I slipped on an iceptch w/ the device in my hand. My hand took the bulk of the blow but there was a major scratch on the glass of the phone - though right next to the speaker on the black shitz so not really visible	17:18
N900evil	ah	17:19
[Anti]	what can i do, if ./configure and compilation "freezing" some times in SDK?	17:19
dmj726_n9001	it is plastic actually	17:19
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firestorm	yaya firmware updated!!	17:20
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spectre-	joikuspot is so awesome	17:20
spectre-	totally worth $10	17:20
Arif_	isnt it 20$	17:21
tybollt	dmj726_n9001: no, the screen is glass	17:21
MarcusM	[Anti] Does CTRL+C work? (It should end it)	17:21
MohammadAG	Arif_, 7 euros (when I bought it)	17:21
[Anti]	MarcusM, yes	17:21
[Anti]	but i need to finish it ;)	17:21
[Anti]	and i want to know reason of freezing ;)	17:22
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MarcusM	BTW: In general, how is the battery life of the n900 compared to other modern smartphones/normal phones.	17:23
cehteh	is wesnoth useable on the n900?	17:23
Arif_	below average	17:23
nidO	compared to highend smartphones, reasonably comparable ish	17:23
MohammadAG	MarcusM, one word? crap	17:23
nidO	compared to normal phones, utterly woeful	17:23
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KMFDM	it depends on use	17:23
tybollt	MarcusM: can't compare... but battery life is about a full day, you always charge it overnight, sometimes even intraday.	17:23
MohammadAG	compared to the 5800, not so much	17:24
cehteh	MarcusM: you can suck all juice out in 4 hours .. or it can last 1 week when idle	17:24
KMFDM	if you are on 3g	17:24
MohammadAG	but yeah, ti depends on use	17:24
KMFDM	7 hours max	17:24
dmj726_n9001	it's about average as far as smartphones, but way shorter thana dumbphone	17:24
nidO	wish I could see a week :<	17:24
KMFDM	if you are only on wireless network	17:24
MarcusM	cehteh: While idle, would that be with sms? (:	17:24
dmj726_n9001	6+ hours here	17:24
cehteh	common is anything inbetwen .. means you get a workday of moderate use	17:24
KMFDM	then a day	17:24
MarcusM	Doesn't the battery get ruined by all that charging?	17:24
* MohammadAG wonders when he'll see nuclear batteries		17:24
Arif_	the battery is hit and miss for me	17:24
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Arif_	sometimes it lasts 3 days	17:24
Arif_	sometimes 10 hours	17:24
Arif_	:D	17:24
MarcusM	Hah :p	17:24
tybollt	did anyone actually ge that extended battery?	17:24
MohammadAG	it lasts me a school day with 3G on	17:25
cehteh	my battery still does well despite a lot recharges, and the batteries are not that expensive	17:25
tybollt	the silly one w/out the cam door?	17:25
MohammadAG	school day + another 4 hours with 3G off	17:25
nidO	the device really should have a 1500mah battery minimum :<	17:25
pupnik	a non-backlit screen and a 2000mah battery please please nokia	17:25
KMFDM	MohammadAG, i have to charge at school or my battery dies ont he way home	17:25
cehteh	but i'd really liked a battery with 50% more	17:25
MarcusM	KMFDM: So what do you use your phone for?	17:25
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d14_	MohammadAG: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/10/07/tiny-nuclear-battery.html	17:25
d14_	:))	17:25
tybollt	cehteh: there is that mugen batt, tried it?	17:25
cehteh	pupnik: yeah turning backlight completely off should be an option	17:25
cehteh	tybollt: nah i want standard size	17:26
Arif_	the N900 already is a brick	17:26
KMFDM	MarcusM, during the day at school my normal use is idling on irc	17:26
Arif_	Muge doesn't do it any good :D	17:26
pupnik	i was hoping some form of oled with 1/2 the drain cehteh	17:26
MohammadAG	pull the backlight ribbon	17:26
cehteh	the mugen is way too big and expensive, no cam slider, and so on	17:26
KMFDM	and reading powerpoint presentations and pdfs	17:26
KMFDM	from instructors during class	17:26
cehteh	pupnik: oled is crap	17:26
MarcusM	KMFDM: And only that makes it drain the life energy? Hmm.	17:26
KMFDM	MarcusM, yes because im connected to 3g	17:26
KMFDM	the phone doesn't like my school's network	17:26
MarcusM	What if you used Wifi only?	17:26
MohammadAG	I'm not worried about the slider or the price, but camkeyd won't work with the mugen bat	17:26
pupnik	cehteh: the only problem i know is lifespan	17:27
tybollt	cehteh: so do I, guess we will continue dreamin then ;D	17:27
MarcusM	Does that make a difference?	17:27
cehteh	pupnik: since oled must be active and overshine sun and other bright light it means you waste a lot energy	17:27
KMFDM	MarcusM, yes a huge one	17:27
MarcusM	Oh I see.	17:27
KMFDM	battery lasts AT LEAST 3 times as long on wifi	17:27
KMFDM	assuming you don't watch video	17:27
KMFDM	multimedia use drains it pretty quickly too	17:27
cehteh	while the n900 display is transreflexive and works pretty well in sunlight without backlight	17:27
cehteh	gps draws too	17:27
MohammadAG	Wfif lasts me 12 hours	17:27
Arif_	listening to internet radio lasts quite long suprisingly though	17:27
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Arif_	over 3G that is..	17:28
Hoxzer_	:) I prefer fm	17:28
Arif_	the connection drops an awful lot though, they should fix that	17:28
cehteh	MarcusM: you cant get good estimates, the powersaving works pretty well, and the cpu is quite powerfull when running it extremely much depends on your use	17:28
firestorm	MohammadAG: firmware done now :)	17:28
tybollt	hmmm gorilla glass -nice there :)	17:28
Arif_	Hoxzer_, no Turkish FM channels in .nl	17:29
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Arif_	:p	17:29
MarcusM	cehteh: I just guess it's gonna make a _huge_ difference compared to my current w810i which can last a week.	17:29
MarcusM	:P	17:29
tybollt	they had me at the guy wearing a mustache and a set of protective goggles :D	17:29
tybollt	looked real scientistish :D	17:29
Arif_	MarcusM, worst case scenerio is 6 hours	17:29
MohammadAG	with little/moderate use	17:29
MohammadAG	once I forgot overnight, connected to all IM servers with wifi	17:29
MohammadAG	forgot it*	17:29
MohammadAG	and it had 25% or so when I woke up	17:29
Arif_	the best is a working day	17:29
Arif_	:P	17:29
Hoxzer_	i wish they would improve the fm radio by making it ablr to automatically look for new channrl when old one dies	17:29
cehteh	MarcusM: i keep mine plugged in at home to have it charged when i leave the house	17:29
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MohammadAG	4*	17:30
ShadowJK	tybollt, my extended battery for n900 arrived just now	17:30
cehteh	and when i really do a lot with it it lasts less than 5 hours	17:30
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tybollt	ShadowJK: mugen?	17:30
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Arif_	Hoxzer_, its called RDS?	17:30
ShadowJK	tybollt, yeah	17:30
Hoxzer_	Arif_: dunnno what's that called	17:30
cehteh	its really not optimal but barely ok	17:30
tybollt	ShadowJK: pics!	17:30
ShadowJK	tybollt, there's a youtube video you know?	17:30
tybollt	ShadowJK: (not of the missus - the phone/batt)	17:30
Arif_	if the same channel is on a different frequency	17:30
Arif_	RDS automagically switches to that	17:30
cehteh	you just have to recharge whenever possible	17:31
MarcusM	cehteh: And how much does a battery cost these days?	17:31
Arif_	original or Chinese?	17:31
pupnik	so is there any superior display technology available now/soon cehteh ? i see many articles on alternatives	17:31
MarcusM	original :P	17:31
firestorm	ne other ways to install rootsh ? as don't wanna install via app manager	17:31
cehteh	there are cheap and crap china batteries for 3Euros .. dont use them they have half the capacity :P	17:31
tybollt	ShadowJK: of the mugen? No I did not, care to link me?	17:31
Arif_	about 15euro here	17:31
MarcusM	Hmm, could be manageable.	17:31
cehteh	yeah at 15-20 euro you prolly get a reasonable good battery	17:31
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cehteh	well i didnt buyed a 2nd one yet	17:32
Arif_	firestorm, apt-get? :p	17:32
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ShadowJK	tybollt, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwqjQrHcWro	17:32
cehteh	and there is battery eye you can watch how much its weared out and how well it behaves	17:32
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nidO	god I cant stand that video	17:32
nidO	her nails just make me want to punch her in the face	17:33
MarcusM	cehteh: On the original as well?	17:33
nidO	no idea why.	17:33
cehteh	yes	17:33
MarcusM	nid0: Hah ;)	17:33
firestorm	apt-get rootsh?	17:33
Arif_	aww, nidO is in love	17:33
cehteh	i have some hopes that someone releases a 1800mah standard sized battery .. that would be a buy	17:33
Arif_	apt-get install rootsh	17:33
Arif_	I guess	17:33
MohammadAG	<firestorm> ne other ways to install rootsh ? as don't wanna install via app manager ?	17:33
MohammadAG	why*	17:33
MohammadAG	Arif_, that won't work without rootsh...	17:33
Arif_	you can't do that as user?	17:34
nidO	tbh I dont see why a 1500-1800mah battery the same size shouldnt be doable	17:34
MarcusM	damn that extended one makes it look like a brick :p	17:34
Arif_	it already is a brick	17:34
ShadowJK	nidO, you can get any label on the battery you want, even "9000mAh"	17:34
cehteh	nidO: i think too	17:34
X-Fade	cehteh: Then Nokia would have put it in anyway. They use high qualitiy lipos, there is just nothing better.	17:34
ShadowJK	(if you order in quantity)	17:34
cehteh	ShadowJK: well the n900 can measure it .. :P	17:34
nidO	going by volume at least, the bp-4l is almost identical to the n900's battery	17:34
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nidO	and thats 1) 4 years old and 2) 1500mah	17:34
cehteh	but basically you can balance size, capacity, endurance ...	17:35
ShadowJK	cehteh, the design_capacity value can be faked :)	17:35
cehteh	nope this are not smart batteries	17:35
cehteh	the counter is in the device	17:35
ShadowJK	yeah but design_capacity isn't a counter	17:35
ShadowJK	third pin on the battery is a resistor that signals design_capacity	17:36
Arif_	if the indicator stays at full and the phone suddenly dies you know its fake	17:36
ShadowJK	change the resistor and another value will show up	17:36
Arif_	xD	17:36
ShadowJK	Arif_, or that you have an old battery :-)	17:36
cehteh	ShadowJK: if someone makes a slightly more expensive, more capacity battery which lasts lets say 30% less it would be doable and quite ok for me	17:36
pupnik	n900 is a seriously useful device. that is why i churn through battery so much	17:36
ShadowJK	the battery seems surprisingly light	17:36
spectre-	yeah	17:36
furunk3l	wow, the extended battery cover is huge.	17:36
Arif_	pupnik, orly	17:36
spectre-	i do like 6 things on it at once	17:36
cehteh	ShadowJK: i thing the 3rd pin is a thermistor	17:37
furunk3l	if you fit it under a car, you can change the tires, holy moly	17:37
ShadowJK	cehteh, I think that's on-device..	17:37
spectre-	3g connectivity, xchat, joikuspot occasionally, shoutcast radio, etc	17:37
ShadowJK	there's one near the battery anyway	17:37
firestorm	MohammadAG: don't know it just comes up and says failed	17:37
cehteh	well i dont really know	17:37
spectre-	how much extra life do you get outta the extendo model battery?	17:37
spectre-	or supposedly get?	17:37
pupnik	spectre - wish shoutcast client would let me filter by bitrate	17:37
MohammadAG	firestorm, well there's only one way to do it without HAM, you sure you want to do that?	17:37
nidO	theoretically itll almost double battery life	17:38
cehteh	but it should be doable to do a higher capacity battery with the same sizes and less charge cycles	17:38
furunk3l	i just bought a second battery plus an external charger. if one battery is down, i exchange the batteries and load the empty battery in the external charger.	17:38
nidO	frankly though I see absolutely no benefit whatsoever in the mugen battery	17:38
ShadowJK	nidO, the "1800mAh" extended battery for N800 turned out to be 1200mAh :)	17:38
firestorm	MohammadAG: yer i wanna be nosy and have root and look about lol	17:38
spectre-	yeah amen pupnik	17:38
nidO	ShadowJK: I assume hes referring to the 2400mah mugen	17:38
furunk3l	the battery was like 5 euros on amazon and the charger like 6 euros.	17:38
tybollt	I'll take a heavier battery, not a bulkier	17:38
furunk3l	*15 euros for the battery	17:38
tybollt	furunk3l: ??? charger? the mugen requires a separate charger?	17:38
MohammadAG	firestorm, ok, follow the instructions you used to flash the device until you have it in flashing mode (don't type any commands)	17:39
ShadowJK	tybollt, furunk3l is not talking about mugen	17:39
* cehteh considers to build a external battery connected through the micro usb		17:39
nidO	I don't see any point whatsoever in the mugen that makes the device bigger though, just buy a powermonkey external battery or similar, they come in powers from 2000-6000mah, cost less, and you can choose to leave them at home when you want something ligher	17:39
cehteh	prolly worse efficiency .. but easy to do	17:39
spectre-	haha sounds like you'll need a backpack or sling to carry it around	17:39
cehteh	can put that in the backpack and charge the device there	17:39
MohammadAG	I wonder why Mugen didn't make a same size extended battery, like with the N97	17:39
pupnik	spectre-: is there an easy way to add current station to favorites? i get mostly broken stations when going through shoutcast/xiph lists	17:40
MohammadAG	they made a same size 1800mAh one, and a 3600mAh extended one	17:40
Hoxzer_	has anybody managed to get ganyremote to work with maemo5?	17:40
RurouniJones	Anyone got the .deb for the freebie (I assume) airport touch game that was on the ovi store?	17:40
cehteh	MohammadAG: well people told that the 1800mah one was crap and didnt last more than the standard one	17:40
* MohammadAG mods his car battery into a backpack with a USB port		17:40
spectre-	not sure, i've manually added all my favs	17:40
* Arif_ blinks		17:41
MohammadAG	cehteh, it did last more, but the difference was hours	17:41
MohammadAG	(2-5 hours)	17:41
firestorm	MohammadAG: is it worth it though?	17:41
MohammadAG	Arif_, sign up on twitter, things like that are better said there ;)	17:41
furunk3l	someone should invent shoes, that recharge the phone while walking. the pressure on the soles produce energy, that while be converted into electricity.	17:41
MohammadAG	firestorm, just do it	17:41
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cehteh	well .. i'll go to get a 2.5mm plug .. matching the charge adapter which is in the package	17:42
nidO	nokia are working on something similar already.	17:42
spectre-	i'd really like a bitrate filter though	17:42
spectre-	cause i'm on shit gprs at the moment	17:42
cehteh	and then connect 5 AA batteries to that, done	17:42
MohammadAG	Your weight in mAh	17:42
ShadowJK	nidO, yeah I think I would have used external batteries too if N900 has 2mm charging plug.. but with the musb, it's so difficult to plug it in without looking :/	17:42
* Arif_ doesn't follow that kind of things on his phone		17:42
Arif_	=}	17:42
cehteh	charging them in another external charger	17:42
pupnik	spectre-: then it is just as easy for me to add a mplayer alias to my .profile, which is what i do. streamtuner just has too much crap to wade through	17:42
tybollt	sjk: agree agree AGREE	17:42
tybollt	spot-fucking-on	17:42
tybollt	damn I hate the usb-plug :)	17:42
spectre-	good idea	17:43
MohammadAG	same, it killed USB OTG (at least officially)	17:43
spectre-	i'm gonna try that	17:43
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tybollt	sjk: OTOH it's actually EU fault we have the usb plugs :P	17:43
spectre-	what do you use for browsing the shoutcast directory?	17:43
nidO	personally i'm looking forward to getting a powermat battery so I wont have to piss about with the goddamn usb plug any more to charge the thing	17:43
pupnik	i just have a few stations i found over the years	17:43
RurouniJones	USB OTG?	17:43
MohammadAG	spectre-, I use tunewiki-community	17:43
ShadowJK	Well, N900 battery measures 100kOhm, N810 battery 120kOhm, N900 mugen 2.4Ah measures 170kOhm.. so atleast it's signaling higher cap :-)	17:43
RurouniJones	What is the OTG bit? Acting as a usb host?	17:43
cehteh	i was thinking about routing vcc and gnd out and add some charge contacts to the case	17:44
MohammadAG	USB On The Go	17:44
MohammadAG	RurouniJones, yes	17:44
cehteh	building a simple charge cradle	17:44
spectre-	i'll check that out, thx mohammad	17:44
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RurouniJones	Sonova, charging via the USB is what killed that?!	17:44
cehteh	but the pcb contacts are only accessible when you disassemble the device	17:44
MohammadAG	RurouniJones, at least that's what Nokia said	17:44
* RurouniJones mutters darkly		17:45
Arif_	is there a way to easilly add the PS3 gamepad support?	17:45
Arif_	I'm not too keen on adding kernel modules and whatnot....	17:45
ShadowJK	bad news: I see no magnet on the extended cover... memory card functionality might be bad	17:45
nidO	its a shame really, its good that the mobile industry is standardising charging, but it's a shame they had to pick such a consumer unfriendly connector for it	17:45
pupnik	serious congratulations are in order to Nokia for dropping durability!	17:45
RurouniJones	USB - The only connector that required 3 rotations to get right when insterting	17:45
Gadgetoid_mbp	pupnik: I think Nokia have made the N900 really easy to drop	17:45
ShadowJK	3.86V shipping charge	17:45
spectre-	yeah	17:45
MohammadAG	Arif_, install SIXAXIS(TM) Support (which adds the modules for you)	17:46
Gadgetoid_mbp	I've dropped it more times than I've ever dropped all of my other phones combined...	17:46
MarcusM	Gadgetoid_mbp: Why is that? :P	17:46
spectre-	i've dropped mine from 5ft to concrete	17:46
Gadgetoid_mbp	Apart from the Sonim XP3, which I dropped on purpose	17:46
spectre-	barely a scratch	17:46
Arif_	MohammadAG, oo. just that?	17:46
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spectre-	and it landed on a corner	17:46
* Arif_ opens extras		17:46
pupnik	same spectre-	17:46
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pupnik	out of my shirt pocket	17:46
N900evil	RurouniJones, feel for the logo on the top	17:46
tybollt	Gadgetoid_mbp: ooooh you have the sonim?	17:46
* tybollt PM		17:46
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* MarcusM messes with Python and some textfile output		17:47
MohammadAG	Arif_, yes, but you'll have to pair using GlovePIE on windows or sth else on linux (not sure)	17:47
Gadgetoid_mbp	tybollt: Yeah, it's fun!	17:47
RurouniJones	So, no one got the airport touch deb? Why the hell did Nokia remove it from the ovi store...and why did they leave it on the maemo select site taunting me....feckers	17:47
Arif_	as long as I don't hav eto mess too much with things...	17:47
* Arif_ thinks of buying a sixaxis		17:47
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ShadowJK	I see no reflector for the camcover detection either :)	17:47
pupnik	lets make an OpenStreetMap racing game :P	17:48
Arif_	RurouniJones, its boring anyway	17:48
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RurouniJones	N900evil: Not so easy when some connectors have embossed logos on both sides (Granted they are different but still annoying for us non-brail readers ;)	17:48
RurouniJones	Arif_: I played the iPhone version in a shop, twas quite fun for train game I thought	17:48
MarcusM	pupnik: Pretty nice idea TBH :P	17:48
MohammadAG	Arif_, I have 5, you want one?	17:49
ShadowJK	battery.reporting.design = 1195 :o	17:49
MohammadAG	100 bucks without shipping or tax	17:49
pupnik	i heard someone was making such a thing for symbian MarcusM	17:49
ShadowJK	oh, camera works	17:49
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, you got the battery?	17:49
ShadowJK	yes	17:49
Arif_	MohammadAG, yeah sure thats way cheaper than buying a new one =P	17:49
ShadowJK	but flashlight doesn't work	17:49
pupnik	how do you start camera with the mugen ShadowJK ?	17:49
MohammadAG	does shortcutd work?	17:49
MohammadAG	pupnik, press the camera button	17:50
ShadowJK	pupnik, press camera button?	17:50
MohammadAG	(remove the original battery cover and press the camera button, it works)	17:50
ShadowJK	or camera from the menu	17:50
cehteh	camera button is configureable	17:51
cehteh	but i rather wonder if mounting the microsd works	17:51
cehteh	mounting/unmounting	17:51
MohammadAG	that would be a blocker if it doesn't	17:51
cehteh	exactly	17:51
MohammadAG	you'll be getting rid of: the kickstand, the lens cover, and microSD functionality	17:52
ShadowJK	microsd doesn't work	17:52
MohammadAG	as well as shortcutd	17:52
MohammadAG	:O	17:52
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MohammadAG	they overlooked it :/	17:52
Arif_	and it wont' fit in your pocket	17:52
* cehteh just watches at battery eye .. my battery shows no signs of wear, it even improved slightly		17:52
MohammadAG	Arif_, it would, but yours pants wouldn't be on you	17:52
* ShadowJK goes eat dinner		17:53
ShadowJK	cehteh, I wouldn't trust the measurements anyway :-D	17:53
cehteh	ShadowJK: i really feared that	17:53
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Arif_	N900 is already like 500g	17:53
Arif_	xD	17:53
cehteh	ShadowJK: well from usage its still as bad as it always was :P	17:53
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MohammadAG	cehteh, imo, http://www.zagg.com/accessories/zaggsparq.php + soldered USB extender would be a better option	17:54
MohammadAG	it's 99 bucks, but it's 6000mAh	17:54
* cehteh needs some charging otg ... bike hub dynamo, battery pack and so on		17:54
Arif_	cehteh, solar charging!	17:55
cehteh	better option than what?	17:55
cehteh	Arif_: solar charging sux	17:55
MohammadAG	than the mugen	17:55
nidO	I have a solar external battery + charger	17:55
cehteh	you need a huge panel and a lot of dependable light	17:55
Arif_	or one of those 3500mAh packs that you can plug the N900 into	17:55
nidO	2000mah battery, can charge it via usb as well if needed, works pretty well	17:55
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Just buy this and change the cells to serial. http://hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10895	17:55
Arif_	but....you'd need to charge those too	17:55
cehteh	nidO: and pure solar charings takes days or?	17:56
X-Fade	8x 5800Mah for $100 :)	17:56
cehteh	buying a handfull AA costs 10 euros, actually i have some laying around	17:56
Arif_	the easiest way is just to take a few spares with you I guess	17:56
cehteh	50 cents for the 2.5mm connector	17:56
nidO	yeah fully charging it takes days, but it's more than perfect to just charge on usb then leave somewhere in sunlight to ensure it stays charged, or at a pinch to solar charge a bit extra when out and about for a long time	17:56
cehteh	small box for one eur	17:56
X-Fade	46400mAh lipo, sweet ;)	17:57
cehteh	so i get a 2000mah pack for 11.50Eur ..	17:57
MohammadAG	X-Fade, I actually DO mind carrying 1262g with me	17:57
MohammadAG	and that's without the N900	17:57
Arif_	you need to rebuy batteries though!	17:57
cehteh	me?	17:57
cehteh	nimh rechargeables	17:57
cehteh	eneloop	17:57
Arif_	that could work	17:58
cehteh	that will work	17:58
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cehteh	well and i consider buying: http://www.bumm.de/docu/361e.htm	17:58
* Arif_ ponders on getting one of those when going on vacation		17:58
cehteh	prolly because i am to lazy to solder such a thing by myself	17:59
cehteh	(and its not easy to reach that efficency, i am not an EE like DocScrutinizer)	17:59
Arif_	are the Nokia USB car chargers any good?	17:59
cehteh	only bike here, no car :P	18:00
Arif_	heh	18:00
Arif_	I can't use either	18:00
Arif_	;(	18:00
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* MohammadAG wonders		18:01
MohammadAG	what if I put the dynamo on the car wheels	18:01
ShadowJK	Arif_, I use the bigger one.. DC-10 I think	18:01
ShadowJK	it's good	18:01
ShadowJK	But it has the annoying blue-led syndrome	18:01
cehteh	MohammadAG: hub dynamo? :)	18:01
cehteh	ShadowJK: eww :P	18:01
* cehteh configures all blue away from the notification led		18:02
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cehteh	configured	18:02
Arif_	blue led syndrome?	18:02
cehteh	well purple is cool	18:02
MohammadAG	cehteh, yeah, thinking about connecting it to a car and putting it on those test things	18:02
MohammadAG	the ones that you drive on but keep the car still	18:02
ShadowJK	Arif_, it has a ring of blue shine	18:02
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Arif_	hm	18:03
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Arif_	my 3.5mm charger has a green led	18:03
lcuk	blue leds are like evil alien technologies, they exist outside the visual spectrum, always just a tiny bit out of focus	18:03
Arif_	http://www.nokia.nl/ontdek-alle-toestellen/accessoires/alle-accessoires/auto/auto-accessoires/nokia-autolader-dc-6	18:04
Arif_	I mean this one	18:04
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DrGrov	Good evening everybody	18:07
Arif_	oh hai thur	18:08
ShadowJK	dc-6 is a weaker car charger	18:08
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DrGrov	how is it going in here? :)	18:08
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DrGrov	any news on the much anticipated PR 1.2? :)	18:08
Arif_	its not out yet ;)	18:08
Arif_	hmm	18:09
Arif_	15 euro vs 35 euro	18:09
* Arif_ ponders		18:09
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Arif_	oh well	18:09
Arif_	I have too much money anyway =D	18:09
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MohammadAG	Arif_, can I have some? :p	18:10
nidO	you know, you could buy a 15 euro charger for both of us	18:10
firestorm	i'llh have some money aswell if ur offering.	18:10
Arif_	what makes you think I'm a nice person ?	18:10
Arif_	=D	18:10
nidO	intuition	18:10
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b0unc3	hey guys, I can update to the new SDK via apt ? is it safe ?	18:11
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nidO	yes, yes	18:11
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: 145A discharge cont. I, nice :-D	18:12
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DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: ...for a 99bucks pack	18:12
MohammadAG	b0unc3, it's the only way to update it	18:12
MohammadAG	fakeroot apt-get dist-upgrade	18:13
b0unc3	MohammadAG, ah ok , thank you	18:13
MohammadAG	np	18:13
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, what pack is that..	18:21
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: [2010-03-24 16:55:57] <X-Fade> MohammadAG: Just buy this and change the cells to serial. http://hobbycity.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10895	18:21
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DocScrutinizer	Configuration: 8S1P / 29.6v / 8Cell	18:22
DocScrutinizer	Constant Discharge: 25C	18:22
* ShadowJK sends mail to mugen telling them about the back cover sensor and the camera door sensor..		18:22
DocScrutinizer	C=5800mAh	18:22
firestorm	'#'''#]	18:23
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DrGrov	mugen?	18:23
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cehteh	DocScrutinizer: how expensive would the development of something like the bumm E-Werk like? .. high efficent current and voltage regulator with little loss and proper handling of undervoltage etc	18:24
DocScrutinizer	and weather resistant case	18:24
cehteh	guess you would need a uC for that, and some clever electronics	18:24
DocScrutinizer	cehteh: just buy one of those	18:25
DrGrov	damn i get stress of nothing being able to get a invisible shield closer to home... just gotta order one, damn!	18:25
* ShadowJK has vikuiti now		18:25
cehteh	weather resistant isnt really a problem .. last thing i build (simple electronics) is just sealed in hot glue :P	18:25
Jaffa	Anyone know how to integrate HildonLiveSearch into an existing (Python) application?	18:26
cehteh	ShadowJK: they redesigned the back-cover already once .. fail :P	18:26
ShadowJK	should have maybe emailed them earlier :D	18:27
tybollt	vikuiti?	18:27
tybollt	vittukuiti?	18:27
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cehteh	DocScrutinizer: making a community project for such, maybe selling self made pcbs and kits ... but developing it would prolly need some effort	18:27
DrGrov	tybollt: vittu? :D lol... that is a profanity in Finnish	18:28
tybollt	ja jag vet	18:28
DocScrutinizer	cehteh: development is easy from a EE POV. marketing and MP isn't	18:28
DrGrov	tybollt: aha, du är svensk. då talar vi samma språk även om jag är från Finland.	18:28
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DocScrutinizer	as is ID/mech/case	18:29
cehteh	nah just small open project, no MP and marketing, make a website with all schemantics and code (avr?), pices list and mostly done, ... people will ask about kits and preproduces pcbs or maybe about assembled device and then do that on a per-order or in little batches as long its fun and they pay some bucks	18:30
cehteh	i am not interested in making a big business from that	18:31
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DocScrutinizer	I'm not interested in making any business from that - can't afford, too expensive :-P	18:31
cehteh	hehe ok	18:31
cehteh	well maybe i just buy the e-werk .. while i think its really overpriced :P	18:32
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DocScrutinizer	it's reaonably priced for a low-volume MP device	18:32
DrGrov	bbl	18:33
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DocScrutinizer	cehteh: see, a mould for a plastic case costs some 50k	18:33
cehteh	DocScrutinizer: hey .. pcb, hotglue, shrinkwrap	18:34
cehteh	ah you mean the bumm thing yeah	18:34
DocScrutinizer	for volumes like 50..200 plastic cases built to order you pay ~100 bucks/unit	18:34
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cehteh	i bet they'll rather sell 50k units	18:35
cehteh	(over time)	18:35
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N900evil	shagways can be an alternative for one or two.	18:36
N900evil	shapeways	18:36
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ccooke	shapeways are good, yeah	18:37
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flux	mohammadag, camkeyd works with mugen battery cover	18:37
N900evil	expensive for all but the smallest vases.	18:37
N900evil	cases.	18:37
N900evil	though vases too.	18:38
ShadowJK	hm, mugen must've spent a lot of money on the N900 back door already with two redesigns	18:38
DocScrutinizer	N900evil: :-D	18:38
ShadowJK	and then the battery itself..	18:38
ShadowJK	I wouldn't want to be them :D	18:38
flux	actually, now that I think of it, it might not. but it does work with shortcutd. I don't know if they had a different principle in enabling/detecting the camera key.	18:38
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DocScrutinizer	actually it's not uncommon for a company to sell first batch of hw at a "dumping price" where they pay/lose hundereds of $$ per device sold - just to get the momentum	18:41
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timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer: you mean companies who know what they're doing? :)	18:42
tybollt	those does not exist	18:43
tybollt	sorry	18:43
DocScrutinizer	hehe	18:43
flux	but indeed sd doesn't seem to be mounted :). I guess a workaround must exist..	18:44
DocScrutinizer	some have better crystal ball than others	18:44
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DocScrutinizer	flux: workaround for pragmatics is a small magnet and a piece of doublesided sticky	18:45
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flux	docscrutinizer, I meant a software-workaround	18:45
flux	I don't really hotswap my sd-card a lot. infact, I've never taken it out so far :)	18:46
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cehteh	flux: throw the ke-recv daemon into the trashbin, write a proper fstab, prevent the startup scripts overwriting the fstab	18:47
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cehteh	mount it manually	18:47
DocScrutinizer	this doesn't change the fact mugen did a pertty poor engineering when specifying their replacement cover	18:47
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cehteh	does ke-recv do anything else except mounting?	18:47
DocScrutinizer	nuke it and learn :-P	18:48
cehteh	i did once .. nothing bad happend	18:48
flux	cehteh, what's the /dev entry for the external sd? I guess udevfs removed it as well when I changed the cover..	18:49
cehteh	but i didnt nuked it completely and rebooted yet :P	18:49
DocScrutinizer	bbl	18:49
cehteh	flux: its nokia, they do everything differently	18:49
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flux	I think it was /dev/mmcblk1, as I have mmcblk0p1 for ~user/MyDocs.	18:50
cehteh	the ke-recv daemon is responsible for that crap .. i just dont know if it does anything important else	18:50
flux	I guess I could just try mknodin the device and mounting it. or just look what the world looks like with the real cover :)	18:50
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cehteh	i mount all my partitions manually from fstab	18:50
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cehteh	but it still unmounts it when removing the cover	18:51
cehteh	(i didnt turned that off, fearing to brick the device when the daemon does anything else which might be vital)	18:51
flux	the description in the init script of ke-recv says 'HAL-based automatic mounting etc.'	18:52
flux	sounds like it is its main function	18:52
cehteh	yeah .. and whats 'etc' ?	18:52
flux	unmounting :)	18:52
flux	loading/unloading related drivers etc	18:52
cehteh	ok you try .. remove it from the startup, reboot your device and report to me if it still works	18:53
flux	oh and performing critical flash maintenance, which makes the flash last for longer than a day :P	18:53
cehteh	if yes, i owe you a beer, if not you have to reflash/restore by yourself :P	18:53
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flux	first step would be to just /etc/init.d/krecv stop	18:53
flux	ke-recv even	18:53
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cehteh	yes that works	18:53
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cehteh	tried that .. i just didnt tried the final step removing it so that it doesnt start at reboot	18:54
flux	so it still unmounts stuff even if it's stopped?	18:54
cehteh	prolly its safe .. but i just reflashed my device when i played that stuff and restored all and didnt wanted to brick it again	18:54
cehteh	not it doesnt to anything when stopped	18:55
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cehteh	i just wasnt sure if it spreads some fairy dust somewhere else .. manages usb connections and so on	18:55
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cehteh	its very likely safe to remove .. but i wanted zero risk	18:56
DocScrutinizer	the joy of a missing recovery system	18:59
cehteh	yeah	19:00
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cehteh	on a 32GB device ...	19:00
DocScrutinizer	:-/	19:00
cehteh	i mean if it had 256MB flash at all .. then i could understand that	19:01
cehteh	but being a fully capable computer with an almost debian like ok .. nokia tried really hard to make it uncomfortable	19:01
cehteh	i hope meego will fix that	19:01
DocScrutinizer	I'd hope a better NOLO would fix that eventually	19:02
Arif_	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48040	19:02
Arif_	oh my	19:02
* cehteh could make a safe boot and rescue system in a few days ... but there is no point in that since its incompatible with any nokia firmware update		19:03
DocScrutinizer	yup	19:03
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cehteh	well let kernel rescue aside -- just userspace rescue would be a huge improvement	19:04
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DocScrutinizer	nolo bootmenu for multiboot would be really nice	19:04
cehteh	yes sure	19:04
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: do a bug for NOLO source? ;)	19:04
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DocScrutinizer	"bootmenu" as in "hold '2' for 2nd partiton boot"	19:04
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cehteh	there is a rescue boot package in some repo (devel?)	19:05
cehteh	but i dont know what it does	19:05
cehteh	having a minimal kernel and kexec would work too	19:05
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cehteh	anything else would be better than the current cruft	19:06
nidO	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/rescue-boot/1.0/	19:06
flux	cool. does it work?-)	19:06
mgedmin	X-Fade, any idea why http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/avahi/0.6.24-0maemo0/ doesn't show who uploaded that package?	19:06
cehteh	well no bugtracker doesnt nag me .. but no doc what it actually does nags me	19:07
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DocScrutinizer	nidO: freat description of the whole pkg over there :-S	19:08
DocScrutinizer	Great even	19:08
nidO	package is nothing to do with me :>	19:08
DocScrutinizer	I lknow	19:08
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DocScrutinizer	or at least I'd not suppose anything else	19:08
MohammadAG	Ubuntu 10.04 moves the X button (and the rest of the bunch) to the left :/	19:09
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DocScrutinizer	well, me away for enjoying some nice weather and dinner	19:09
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DocScrutinizer	tzz >>Description: Implement rescue boot method.<<	19:15
cehteh	heh ...	19:15
cehteh	i just got the source ..	19:15
cehteh	there is something missing	19:16
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cehteh	.. and i think its something vital :)	19:16
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, do yo know about bootmenu.sh?	19:16
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ShadowJK	I mean, are you aware of it? :-)	19:16
DocScrutinizer	yup	19:17
DocScrutinizer	the much appreciated new hook Nokia implemented into their system crankup	19:17
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cehteh	instead this "missing bugtracker link" insanity there should be a rule "package has to be alive else it will be purged"	19:18
ShadowJK	yeah it's nice	19:18
ShadowJK	it's pretty early too	19:18
cehteh	alive as in either updates every 2 months at least or positive user feedback	19:18
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: not entirely clear what exactly can be done at that point	19:18
ShadowJK	not even mmc drivers are loaded :)	19:19
ShadowJK	or maybe just udev isn't running so there are no /dev nodes for it :D	19:19
DocScrutinizer	hmm cool	19:19
DocScrutinizer	anyway, I'm afk	19:19
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Jaffa	Wow, YoDude seems to have gone into full-blown "I'm the only sane one around here" mode whilst making no sense whatsoever.	19:23
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pupnik	link Jaffa ?	19:24
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Jaffa	pupnik: hang on	19:27
Jaffa	pupnik: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=580618#post580618	19:27
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Jaffa	pupnik: About half-way down when starts quoting GAN900	19:28
Myrtti	well, I didn't vote for him anyway	19:28
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GAN900	Myrtti, somebody bought you with chocolate, didn't they? ;)	19:29
Myrtti	GAN900: you did, hunny	19:29
pupnik	wow, so much... talk	19:29
Myrtti	sugar and sweet talkin'	19:30
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GAN900	Myrtti, crap, I'm on the hook for a lot aren't I? :D	19:30
GAN900	pupnik, hey, at least he uses newlines.	19:30
Myrtti	TL;DR	19:30
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horm	DCC SEND irc.tddirc.net#hackerthreads 0 0 0	19:31
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pronto	somone ban horm	19:32
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Lumpio-	too late	19:32
pupnik	going forward maemo should look at what is enabling community software, and what makes it difficult	19:32
pupnik	a lot of the talk* is just irrelevant	19:33
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GAN900	Ah, yes, my secrit plan to administer Talk.	19:34
* w00t got bad vibes about him from day one really		19:35
Jaffa	GAN900: I was going to say "actively involved like any other community member", but thought I'd ignore that part of his inane ranting.	19:35
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* Arif_ sneezes		19:39
GAN900	w00t, peace, love, and a knife in the kidney	19:39
GAN900	Platform seems to be "Everything should happen on the forum, and forum people should get more say"	19:39
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GAN900	". . . members must go outside this forum to independent blogs and whatnot. Why is that?"	19:40
GAN900	Boggle inducing.	19:40
w00t	GAN900: i'm all for more connection between the different parts of the community, i'm not happy for giving say to people who aren't willing to work to make things happen	19:40
w00t	and yes, that made me laugh, a great deal	19:40
javispedro	In the forum we trust.	19:40
w00t	..given that it was posted there when it happened	19:41
Jaffa	javispedro: One forum to rule us. One forum to bind us	19:41
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w00t	don't make it versus the forum, though	19:41
w00t	I'd rather see it versus someone who is clearly out of their mind	19:41
Jaffa	w00t: Oh, indeed.	19:42
GAN900	Ha	19:42
Jaffa	w00t: As I've pointed out, all of the candidates this time starting contributing on the forum before going anywhere else and are still enormously active there.	19:42
Jaffa	w00t: Which is why the "I'm the pro-forum candidate" pisses me off.	19:42
w00t	Jaffa: mhm	19:43
ali1234	well maybe that speaks more about the role of counccil members than it does about the forum	19:43
w00t	I just look at texrat's post count and laugh when I see that	19:43
w00t	:P	19:43
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GAN900	Mr. Hyperactive	19:44
Khertan	Hi again,	19:44
GAN900	He had double the postcount of the next closest post last time I checked.	19:44
Jaffa	ali1234: Sorry, the "that" is?	19:44
w00t	I need to start posting again	19:44
w00t	I was hyperactive for a few months and then I got a life again..	19:45
ali1234	Jaffa: the facct that all people who are standing for council spend so much time posting on the forums	19:45
Khertan	i ve a question about device loaned device given at summit ... someone can scan me the contract for the return adress ?	19:45
Khertan	i didnt found mine	19:45
w00t	ali1234: I spend a great deal of my working life on IRC - are you going to say that implies something about me? :P	19:45
ali1234	w00t: yes, but that has nothing to do with what i am saying	19:46
Jaffa	ali1234: Ah, OK. I still don't understand your point ;-)	19:46
w00t	in which case, I concur with Jaffa	19:46
w00t	I thought you were trying to imply that council candidates were too busy with making forum posts rather than getting things done	19:46
javispedro	uh oh, the Summit loan endings are soon?	19:46
ali1234	Jaffa: someone who doesn't post on forums is probably not interested in the community, therefore they will not run for council	19:46
luke-jr	ali1234: bad logic	19:46
luke-jr	forums != community	19:47
Khertan	javispedro : don t know but i ll not use mine	19:47
ali1234	yes, forums does = community	19:47
Khertan	anymore	19:47
w00t	ali1234: not exclusively so	19:47
DocScrutinizer51	luke-jr: yeah	19:47
luke-jr	ali1234: forums are just stupid in general; IRC is real community	19:47
ali1234	it doesn't matter, it is by far the largest part	19:47
Jaffa	javispedro: Supposedly mid/end-April IIRC	19:47
ali1234	if IRC is the community then the ommunity only has 500 people	19:48
javispedro	nice, I forgot about the return address too :)	19:48
w00t	actually, 572 of them, at this point in time	19:48
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w00t	compared with 383 members online on TMO now	19:48
Khertan	:)	19:48
w00t	so, your point?	19:48
Jaffa	ali1234: There are more maemo.org accounts (used for Downloads, News and Garage) than there are active tmo accounts (using terms like "largest" is a bit woolly for my tastes)	19:48
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ali1234	my point is that tmo represents the community	19:48
Jaffa	ali1234: Or that size matters	19:48
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ali1234	irc represents a very small and vocal elite of the community	19:49
w00t	no one thing can represent the community	19:49
GAN900	^	19:49
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Khertan	ali1234: exactly tmo represent the community ... a full of whining people	19:49
ali1234	isn't that what the council is supposed to do? represent the community?	19:49
Khertan	which complain for everythings	19:49
DocScrutinizer51	ali1234: I like to disagree	19:49
ali1234	if the community is full of whiners, then the council should be full of whiners too	19:50
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ali1234	otherwise it is not representative	19:50
Khertan	ali1234: one advice : the community is dead	19:50
w00t	then the way forward is clear	19:50
* javispedro smells a pandora box opening		19:50
w00t	GAN900 for council	19:50
luke-jr	w00t's point stands.	19:50
* w00t grins		19:50
luke-jr	IRC has more active users than TMO	19:50
Khertan	there isn t no more community just people wanting things free ... fast and quickly	19:51
luke-jr	500 people cannot be a minority of 300 ;)	19:51
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* GAN900 smells Khertan's burnout.		19:51
DocScrutinizer51	Khertan: not all are like that	19:51
w00t	Khertan: I think you need a break	19:51
Khertan	so noone have anymore the contract of the loan device ?	19:52
lcuk	Khertan, whats your next tech purchase gona be?	19:52
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* DocScrutinizer51 hugs Khertan		19:52
javispedro	Chaos reigns within. Reflect, repent, and reboot. Order shall return.	19:52
ali1234	Khertan: i've got mine	19:52
GAN900	Khertan, don't worry, it's my favorite fragrance!	19:52
ali1234	what do you need?	19:52
Khertan	lcuk : don t know yet ... probably none ...	19:52
luke-jr	my next tech purchase is going to be a handheld that meets my minimum requirements, regardless of what company makes it or what OS it ships ;p	19:52
luke-jr	so far no such device has been announced by any company	19:52
Khertan	ali1234: i need the return adress	19:53
lcuk	:) thn enjoy the time with your mrs khertan. and the apps you have written are good.	19:53
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javispedro	luke-jr: so you were in the same situation as me until I decided to call it a day and buy the n810.	19:53
Khertan	could send me a scan of the contract pls ?	19:53
Khertan	lcuk: i enjoy it too ...	19:53
luke-jr	javispedro: except the N810 was the worst tech purchase I have ever made :)	19:53
Khertan	ali1234: khertan@khertan.net	19:53
lcuk	luke-jr, buying things which dont meet your requiremenets is just folly and will make you a grumpy old man	19:53
* Jaffa wonders how many people have posted to more than 3 threads in the last 3 months on tmo		19:54
ali1234	Khertan: Terhi Nousu P.O. Box 225 FIN-00045 NOKIA GROUP	19:54
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lcuk	Khertan how will people know where to find pygtkeditor?	19:54
Khertan	my requirement is quite simple for me ... something i can play with to made application and development onboard	19:54
javispedro	that doesn't ring a bell, for some reason.	19:54
Khertan	:)	19:54
lcuk	has anyone offered to become a new maintainer	19:54
lcuk	you do it well!	19:54
Khertan	lcuk : i ll try to made some ads for my repository	19:55
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Jaffa	lcuk: Khertan said the maemo.org download will point to his repo. Khertan have you checked with X-Fade that /downloads/ isn't entirely driven by Extras?	19:55
Khertan	lcuk : maemo.org download point to my repository	19:55
* luke-jr wants at least 4"-6" display, 512 MB RAM, and usable keyboard :p		19:55
lcuk	how does that work tho?	19:55
lcuk	ithought all your accounts had been closed on your wishes?	19:55
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Khertan	jaffa: you can actually set an install file link	19:56
Khertan	jaffa: but i ven t check for link with extras	19:56
Khertan	lcuk: nope just garage currently	19:56
* lcuk has never browsed downloads fro mdevice		19:57
Khertan	because xfade fear that it work hard for removing apps and i publish it again just after to extras	19:57
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Khertan	~ping	19:57
infobot	~pong	19:57
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lcuk	o_O	19:58
* javispedro is wary of going back to multiple repos again		19:58
rm_you	T_T	19:58
rm_you	lcuk!	19:58
Khertan	but to be clear i didn t complain against x-fade	19:58
lcuk	ello rm_you :)	19:58
Khertan	just that there is now need anymore of that account	19:59
Jaffa	Khertan: Yeah, in the earlier OSes you could override it. But things like description get overwritten now by Extras and so I wonder if you can have an entry there which isn't backed by an Extras package.	19:59
DocScrutinizer51	Khertan: maybe just take a day off, to chill?	19:59
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Khertan	DocScrutinizer51 : i ve already take two weeks off	20:00
DocScrutinizer51	ooh	20:00
Khertan	it s not hot reaction	20:01
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rm_you	lcuk: how goes things? been out of the loop since n900 died	20:01
Khertan	i ve setted my own bts	20:01
rm_you	s/n900/my n900/	20:01
infobot	rm_you meant: lcuk: how goes things? been out of the loop since my n900 died	20:01
lcuk	Khertan, did you write vectormine in pygame?	20:01
Khertan	lcuk: yep	20:01
lcuk	rm_you, i have been excessively busy	20:01
lcuk	http://www.pygame.org/pcr/repository.php	20:01
rm_you	cool	20:01
lcuk	theres some great examples there Khertan	20:01
lcuk	some more fodder for playing	20:02
Khertan	lcuk: why ?	20:02
rm_you	i've been looking for something to do, maybe will write a game for n900 using pygame :P	20:02
rm_you	been meaning to learn pygame anyway	20:02
lcuk	because you might not like maemo, but you still have 3 hours a day on a train	20:02
lcuk	and will get bored	20:02
Khertan	lcuk: :)	20:02
Khertan	currently i m trying to made a package python apps for android	20:03
lcuk	cool	20:03
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lcuk	does python run on android?	20:03
Khertan	yep	20:03
lcuk	i thought it was java	20:03
Khertan	but it s a bit difficult to made 'standart apps'	20:03
lcuk	which device have you got?	20:04
Khertan	none yet	20:04
Khertan	just the emulator on my netbook	20:04
Khertan	i ll try soon to install nitdroid on the n900	20:04
rm_you	I have a G1 if you need testing	20:04
lcuk	lol rm_you	20:04
lcuk	@ pygame enthusiasm	20:04
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rm_you	better than what i've BEEN doing with 100% of my time	20:05
rm_you	which is, playing L4D2	20:05
lcuk	Khertan, is there a code editor on the android?	20:05
dmj726_n900	isn't the android python somewhatm limited?	20:05
ptl	Khertan: you are Benoît, right?	20:05
ptl	I've read and responded your email on the mailing list.	20:06
ptl	It's really a pity that you're androidizing.	20:07
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GAN900	rm_you, L4D2 sucks	20:07
ptl	but, well... Hope PyGTKEditor survives!	20:07
GAN900	rm_you, they out took all of the soul and enjoyability of 1.	20:07
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hrw	have a nice rest of day	20:08
Khertan	lcuk: nope i didnt see any code editor	20:08
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DocScrutinizer51	so, on unrelated topic: anything remarkable happened 7h ago? (i.e. wed 12:00 UTC) ? XP	20:08
lcuk	Khertan, would you now just use your netbook then?	20:08
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N900evil	are there SD to sata converters?	20:09
Khertan	ptl: currently i m just looking arround me and playing a bit with android pkg nothing more	20:09
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, that would be 13:07 my time, and i was just walking to the toilet	20:09
N900evil	Not the other way round	20:09
lcuk	im not sure i need to go into finer detail	20:09
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: see the -devel mailing list	20:09
N900evil	to p.lug a hd into a sd slot	20:09
Khertan	lcuk : no the netbook is a pain to use in the metro	20:09
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lcuk	so whatwill you use? n900->android?	20:09
lcuk	that would be amusing :D	20:09
Khertan	currently i don t know	20:10
Khertan	studying possibilities	20:10
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lcuk	i think it should be more than feasible to make a qt based micro ide	20:10
lcuk	for on device dev	20:10
lcuk	pyqteditor :D	20:11
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Khertan_	so android device could be one solution	20:12
javispedro	qteditor :)	20:12
thopiekar	hey I saw somebody using a N900 in the Regional Bahn 13 from Düsseldorf to Hamm I think playing doom	20:12
thopiekar	are you here?	20:12
pronto	:o nice, i havent seen another n900 in public yet	20:12
Khertan_	running android on n900 an other	20:12
pronto	only mine	20:12
Khertan_	but i found that the n900 is a great device for doing onboard dev	20:12
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lcuk	Khertan, im not talking about running, im talking about editing	20:12
thopiekar	pronto: :P	20:12
* ShadowJK hasn't seen android in public yet :)		20:12
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javispedro	I've seen two n900s already	20:13
lcuk	isaw a robot in the rain	20:13
pronto	really?, i've seen loads of andriods	20:13
javispedro	... but a lot of android phones	20:13
lcuk	:( it was all ruted	20:13
lcuk	rusted	20:13
Khertan_	but i think i ll do the dev on the n900 ...	20:13
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pronto	but never a single n900 xD	20:13
ShadowJK	seen lots of winmob though	20:13
lcuk	Khertan, you will need an editor	20:13
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pronto	i'm seeing less and elss win mo	20:13
thopiekar	I would say that he was one of ours, I mean IRC user :P	20:13
Khertan_	probably with pygtkeditor	20:14
Khertan_	never seen any mameo device ... or n900	20:14
Khertan_	i see many many many iphone in train in france	20:14
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Khertan_	or droid device	20:14
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* ShadowJK has never seen an iphone in real life either		20:15
ShadowJK	a few ipods though	20:15
Khertan_	lcuk: yep i think the first thing will to made an editor :)	20:15
Khertan_	lcuk: yep i think the first thing will be to made an editor :)	20:15
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javispedro	ShadowJK: where do you live? in Cupertino? :)	20:15
ShadowJK	.fi	20:15
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Khertan_	ouch right now i can count 15 iphone user in the wagon	20:15
Khertan_	about 40 people	20:15
ShadowJK	saw a Samsung non-android touchscreen	20:15
DocScrutinizer51	heard eyephone is illegal there XP	20:15
Khertan_	lcuk: there are nice pygame snippet in the repository	20:17
Khertan_	well written	20:17
lcuk	which ones, the one i pasted or elsewhere?	20:17
Khertan_	the one you paste	20:17
lcuk	yeah i know i had a look	20:18
lcuk	what would happen if you signed up for ovi using your employer as company? :)	20:18
Khertan_	i ve my own company	20:19
javispedro	black helicopters would unleash ninjas	20:19
Khertan_	but you can sign	20:19
Khertan_	but cannot still publish for maemo	20:19
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lcuk	javispedro, i mean after the ninjas have left	20:19
Khertan_	lcuk: ovi store is still not really open	20:20
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Khertan_	this is why i ve made my own registration scheme	20:21
rm_you	GAN900: nah, it's better by quite a buit	20:21
Khertan_	but vectornine have no success ... too geek i think	20:21
Khertan_	3 sell	20:22
Khertan_	and 2 from the same person which register it for two device	20:22
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GAN900	rm_you, dunno, I can't stand it.	20:22
GAN900	rm_you, and we played hours and hours of 1	20:22
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GAN900	rm_you, it's so bad I went back to Halo Wars. :P	20:23
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b0unc3	guys, how I can set a key shortcut to my application ? (also in code)	20:23
lcuk	all apps have a key combination, just press shift+ctrl+x+name of app+enter	20:24
lcuk	simplicity itself!	20:24
frals	assuming the binary is in PATH, right? ;)	20:25
lcuk	shhh	20:25
lcuk	b0unc3, i dunno how to do it	20:25
lcuk	isnt there some .desktop magic?	20:25
Khertan_	uHHHH ! send email from mfe with a google account is now working !!! GREAT !	20:26
b0unc3	lcuk, boh :)	20:26
javispedro	we need a strong council candidate that will bring us a FINAL FANTASY THEME!!	20:28
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javispedro	does no one think of the children^Wfinal fantasy fans?	20:28
GAN900	javispedro, no! Hello Kitty!	20:28
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Khertan_	ah hem in fact not the email was sent because now smtp is allowed by my mobile isp	20:29
javispedro	let democracy do its job! hello kitty vs final fantasy theme	20:29
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Khertan_	~ping	20:30
infobot	~pong	20:30
GAN900	There can only be one!	20:30
Khertan_	gan900 : none will be better	20:31
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javispedro	there can only be none, then	20:31
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Khertan_	connection will drop soon	20:32
Khertan_	bye everyone	20:32
javispedro	cya Khertan_	20:32
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Khertan_	and if someone are looking for a python dev in paris ... i m open to any proposition ...	20:32
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wazd	so, who's gonna be tomorrow@fruct? :)	20:34
lcuk	wazd, is it in moscow?	20:36
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Khertan_	hum ... i think PyGTKEditor will got a new name .... so avoid that HAM stupid repository priority	20:37
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wazd	lcuk: yep	20:37
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lcuk	i think theres someone i was speaking to today whos goin	20:37
lcuk	are you goin?	20:38
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Khertan_	maybe also a new open source licence the Khertan OSS licence which forbidden to upload it to maemo repository :)	20:38
wazd	lcuk: yep	20:38
wazd	lcuk: at least it's gonna be fun :)	20:39
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Khertan_	hum ... i'm far from any cities ... and still not lost 3G connection	20:39
javispedro	Khertan_: you're evil.	20:39
javispedro	:)	20:39
lcuk	yeah - theres a qt overview/training stuff there too isnt there	20:39
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javispedro	btw lcuk, I have to say that I hadn't yet tried liqflow with "gravity" yet	20:42
lcuk	what do you mean	20:42
javispedro	the one with accelerometer input	20:43
lcuk	ohhh you had an 810 last time	20:43
javispedro	it's pretty nice	20:43
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lcuk	heh	20:43
javispedro	I think it adds "the missing touch" that makes liqflow quite entertaining	20:43
* javispedro says that after spending a few minutes glazing at it		20:44
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ptl	Khertan's connections died, it seems	20:44
ptl	8connection	20:44
lcuk	lol javispedro i have been too busy to finish the changes i want with it	20:44
madduck	why are there applications for which i cannot add a shortcut to the desktop?	20:44
ptl	*connection	20:44
lcuk	tho suffice to say it works with sketches and selectable stuff	20:44
madduck	e.g. wireshark	20:45
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madduck	and is there no way to switch desktops while arranging icons and widgets?	20:46
javispedro	madduck: you can actually drag a widget to a corner	20:47
ptl	yes, there is	20:47
ptl	if you drag it to the corner it changes desktops	20:47
madduck	javispedro: yeah bugt then i cannot go back	20:47
javispedro	drag to the opposite corner :)	20:47
javispedro	ah	20:48
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madduck	so moving 10 to another desktop is PAIN	20:48
javispedro	it works here	20:48
javispedro	you have to drag from the outside of the screen	20:48
madduck	move, exit, switch, enter, move, …	20:48
javispedro	s/drag/pan	20:48
madduck	nice	20:49
madduck	that works	20:49
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madduck	now how do i add a shortcut for wireshark?	20:49
javispedro	ask wireshark maintainer	20:49
javispedro	probably bad desktop file or the like	20:49
madduck	oh dear	20:49
madduck	i thought maemo is debian-based	20:50
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lcuk	it is, just like we are likely "ape-based"	20:50
madduck	but debian is known for it just working ;)	20:50
lcuk	doesnt mean i swing from trees every day	20:50
madduck	lcuk: hehe	20:50
javispedro	debian is known for just working O.o?	20:50
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* lcuk goes making some code mods		20:51
DocScrutinizer51	foreca once 'bricked' my devicce when trying to drag widget to anothher desktop	20:51
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lcuk	bricked?	20:52
DocScrutinizer51	infinite reboot	20:52
ShadowJK	how do they manage that :)	20:52
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lcuk	schrodingers widget	20:53
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lcuk	its both active and not active, but you cannot tell until you get to desktop	20:53
DocScrutinizer51	lcuk: 'bricked'	20:53
lcuk	i know	20:53
lcuk	did you file a bug?	20:53
lcuk	if not, how do i reproduce it	20:54
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lcuk	i can test it now	20:54
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DocScrutinizer51	Though I know better, I seem to slowly adopt the common usage pattern for that term	20:55
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javispedro	no! first you start misusing 'bricked', then you end up complaining about pr1.2 not having mms!	20:56
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javispedro	it's the road to tmoness.	20:56
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* w00t bricks DocScrutinizer		20:57
GAN900	DocScrutinizer51, it doesn't lack for inertia. ;)	20:58
GAN900	I dunno, fMMS was damn easy to get working.	20:58
lcuk	fmms ftw	20:58
ShadowJK	Let's call it "barefoot" instead. unbootable, barefoot, get it	20:58
javispedro	unbarefootable?	20:58
wizkoder	What do I do if I need libcrypt++ on the N900 for ma program?	20:58
lcuk	get libcript++ on your n900?	20:59
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lcuk	+spelling	20:59
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wizkoder	lcuk: Can't find it with apt-cache. Should it be there?	21:00
lcuk	i dunno	21:00
lcuk	http://maemo.org/packages/	21:00
lcuk	look for yourself	21:00
lcuk	and if not, you may have to port it	21:00
DocScrutinizer	ok, my device went barefoot on simply dragging the foreca widget from screen1 rightside to screen2. Instant reboot, and bootloop	21:00
wizkoder	lcuk: Its not there then. But the debian page states that an arm version exists.	21:01
* javispedro does one time offer: a pair of shoes for barefoot n900, only $99!!!		21:01
DocScrutinizer	btw, on a sidenote, I have to state 3G is severely borked on constantly losing connection while cell-handover	21:02
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, last time mine borked was in january :-)	21:03
DocScrutinizer	broken ever since, or what? ;-P	21:04
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MarcusM	What is mostly used for watching vids on the n900? mp4?	21:06
Stskeeps	i use avi without transcoding :P	21:06
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MarcusM	And why that, and not the others? (:	21:07
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MarcusM	Higher quality or?	21:07
nidO	dyou mean container, or codec?	21:08
MarcusM	Uhm, both I guess :P	21:08
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DocScrutinizer	let me put it this way: I click on the file or on the title in mediaplayer. Usually it plays and I don't care about format or codec	21:09
nidO	I have a whole range of media formats, mostly ffmpeg mp4's, xvid mp4's and avi, and h.264 mp4's	21:09
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DocScrutinizer	probably h.264 should be somewhat better supported, aiui, as it has hw acceleration via DSP	21:10
MarcusM	neat :p	21:11
nidO	h.264 can be unreliable actually iirc	21:11
nidO	I dont remember the details but I found a few of my media files wouldnt play, from what I remember theyre all h.264 encoded but I cant remember what was different about them compared to the rest of mine that dont work	21:12
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nidO	i'm yet to come across any divx/xvid/ffmeg mp4/avi's that dont play though	21:12
DocScrutinizer	might choke the DSP and need reboot to recover from broken video playback . that kind of unrelaiable?	21:12
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nidO	no, just a few that blankly give an "unsupported media format" error	21:13
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nidO	they might have been in an mkv container for all I remember, ill check later	21:13
LuciusMare	http://pastebin.com/xrimXbQ2 - i guess this is not exactly wanted and expected behaviour...	21:13
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* MarcusM loves http://www.uselesspython.com/		21:16
LuciusMare	I have manually installed libgtkhtml12-0, though it still fails	21:17
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DocScrutinizer	ghtml2 vs libgtkhtml12. maybe 12 vs 2 doen't cut it? dunno	21:20
* RST38h moos at the moon		21:20
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LuciusMare	hah	21:23
konttori	madduck: in pr1.2 you can swipe and it'll pan also in edit mode.	21:23
LuciusMare	I misread it	21:23
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LuciusMare	yeah, i have "gtkhtml2"	21:23
LuciusMare	Nobody here uses anki? :<	21:24
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w00t	konttori: awwwwwesome.	21:24
konttori	well, doesn't really matter much imho. It's such a small pain that that fixes.	21:26
konttori	we should probably not even bothered to fix it.	21:26
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w00t	it's a pain, and that means that fixing it is good :p	21:26
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w00t	sometimes it's the small annoyances that get noticed	21:27
w00t	and that is one that I have noticed a lot	21:27
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lcuk	actually konttori thats quite a nice fix	21:28
lcuk	:D	21:28
pillar	yeah, I agree	21:29
konttori	meh. I setup my widgets / contacts / bookmarks once, then I don't touch them almost at all anymore.	21:29
* konttori has been working on theming improvements and noticed that image-viewer and calendar have the ugliest-ever hardcodings in their gtkrc files.		21:30
lcuk	i thought you werent working!	21:31
lcuk	:p	21:31
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RST38h	konttori: unless the media widget stops working, then you remove it, then you readd it, then all the other widgets crash, then you add them one by one	21:32
* RST38h hides promptly =)		21:32
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javispedro	konttori: in pr1.1 you can also swipe, but only if you start the gesture from outside the screen (much like the browser cursor gesture)	21:34
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LuciusMare	aargh	21:35
LuciusMare	So i tried the qt version of anki	21:35
LuciusMare	ImportError: No module named QtGui	21:35
konttori	javispedro: ah, so, that's the same in 1.2 as well. I get lost in which we had implemented for which release	21:35
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* javispedro can see it		21:36
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javispedro	I predict something will happen that will make me have to leave when the meego meeting starts	21:37
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MarcusM	noobish question: How do I know if my sim card got 3g? Or isn't it regardless, as it depends on the phone?	21:37
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Myrtti	it's more about the subscription plan attached to that sim card than the sim card itself	21:38
MarcusM	But I would still be able to use the phone _even_ if I was unlucky enough not to have 3g?	21:39
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lcuk	konttori, have you come up with any ways to solve those hard coded issues, or is it just something you are pondering	21:39
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Myrtti	MarcusM: probably	21:39
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javispedro	harcoding things are the norm in maemo :)	21:40
javispedro	s/are/is	21:40
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konttori	lcuk: I added to theme maker themes to postinst rm <imageviewer gtkrc>.	21:40
mikkov	javispedro: have you tried new version of sgx drivers from sdk on device?	21:40
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javispedro	mikkov: nope. is that even sane? I would have though they would be shims.	21:41
konttori	I haven't yet come up with perfect plan how to 'fix' calendar, but I think I'll just manually create sane gtkrc for it and then add postinst to replace existing one with that. Evil, but what can you do?	21:41
mikkov	I don't know. That's why asked you? :)	21:41
javispedro	then no, I didn't :)	21:41
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konttori	I also worked on the messaging css and html files and fixed those views to support portrait mode.	21:42
andrewfblack	konttori: I'm getting some reports from some people working on themes that their themes are failing due to [2010-03-24 21:30:49] Unable to satisfy build-deps: hildon-theme-layout-5 (< 0.14.0) is that because hildon-theme-layout-5 got updated to 0.15.0-1+0m5 yesterday?	21:42
konttori	it was only a matter of dropping some width settings and changing some widths to max-widths.	21:42
Arif_	hmm	21:42
* Arif_ wants a DSi XL		21:43
javispedro	nice!	21:43
pupnik	can we block wd.sharethis.com from overwriting the url in microb ???	21:43
konttori	andrewfblack: probably. No idea though.	21:43
Arif_	but the colors suck!	21:43
Arif_	;(	21:43
Kegetys	argh, is there some way to intercept the IM sound+vibration event and drop it for certain chats? chatter on a skype group chat constantly beeping and whirring the N900 is getting really really annoying	21:43
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lcuk	konttori, nice :)	21:45
LuciusMare	lol	21:45
LuciusMare	I wonder why is the anki in repos, while it can't even start	21:46
lcuk	which repository is it in?	21:46
lcuk	and what does it do	21:46
lcuk	or meant to do	21:46
LuciusMare	lcuk: a flashcard software	21:46
konttori	LuciusMare: by repos, do you mean devel?	21:47
LuciusMare	probably	21:47
LuciusMare	(i know)	21:47
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LuciusMare	But one would kinda expect a little problems	21:47
lcuk	then, its sole purpose is being there is to give oyu incentive to fix it	21:47
lcuk	i expect a patch by morning :p	21:47
LuciusMare	oh...oh.	21:48
lcuk	can it accept custom card sets?	21:48
LuciusMare	yes	21:48
lcuk	cool	21:48
LuciusMare	it even can download them from the net	21:49
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lcuk	do you need a "how to fix broken apps" flashcard set?	21:49
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LuciusMare	heh	21:49
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lcuk	#meego-meeting starting in 12minutes	21:49
* LuciusMare can't fix any apps		21:49
lcuk	LuciusMare, but you could contact the developer and report it	21:50
lcuk	having users interested in his packages might give incentive for him to cure	21:50
LuciusMare	hm, I will	21:50
lcuk	:)	21:51
LuciusMare	At least it's python	21:51
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LuciusMare	geeze, just the dependencies take 6% of rootfs	21:53
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LuciusMare	It looks like a job for... /opt !	21:53
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LuciusMare	lcuk: yeah, sorry, I didn't notice i didnt turn off the devel	21:54
LuciusMare	i thought it is in "standard" extras	21:55
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lcuk	LuciusMare, no need to apologise :)	21:55
lcuk	just contact the app dev anyway	21:55
lcuk	same reason applies	21:55
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lcuk	im goin concentrating on #meego-meeting for a bit anyway	21:56
LuciusMare	yes, but installing an app from -devel and moaning on irc that it does not work is...	21:56
LuciusMare	lcuk: what's going to happen there?	21:57
Arif_	hmm	21:57
Arif_	the app manager is awfully slow lately :(	21:58
Arif_	it needs a rewrite!	21:58
ptl	it keeps spinning, isn't it?	21:58
LuciusMare	Arif_: go ahead	21:58
ptl	it needs to stop spinning, only that	21:58
Arif_	it takes 5 minutes to open the category list	21:58
Arif_	and another 20 to open the list of apps	21:58
Arif_	</exaggerate>	21:58
jacekowski	it's related to it updating package list every time	21:59
jacekowski	and that's what takes a time	21:59
Arif_	maybe I should disable devel	21:59
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LuciusMare	Arif_: i recommend, it is a breeze	22:00
Arif_	but all the fun apps that don't work are there ;(	22:00
ptl	is it written in python?	22:00
LuciusMare	Well, yes. The drawback of it is that you lose access to the non-functional apps	22:01
Arif_	I only added it for drnoksnes anyway	22:01
Arif_	:D	22:01
LuciusMare	ptl: i assume	22:01
LuciusMare	drnoksnes?	22:01
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javispedro	Arif_: yes no need to remind me the damage I done.	22:02
LuciusMare	oh, SNES	22:02
LuciusMare	:)	22:02
javispedro	fortunately drnoksnes is now on -testing, so disable -devel ALREADY!	22:02
Arif_	but now picodrive is in devel!	22:02
Arif_	oh and maybe qtirrecco will be fixed someday	22:02
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LuciusMare	someday	22:02
LuciusMare	someday, you will enable it again	22:03
* Arif_ doubts it		22:03
ptl	recode it in C++ and it will be faster if the algorithm is the same.	22:03
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Arif_	maybe my IR is broken	22:03
LuciusMare	lol	22:03
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LuciusMare	ohai speed	22:04
Arif_	aww	22:05
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Arif_	drnoksnes needs one more vote	22:05
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* LuciusMare is not voting		22:05
Arif_	why not	22:05
LuciusMare	First, i have no idea what voting are you talking about ;p	22:05
Arif_	extras-testing	22:06
LuciusMare	to get there?	22:06
Arif_	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/drnoksnes/1.3.4/	22:06
lcuk	who is imadsousou	22:06
LuciusMare	and, it's a snes emulator? And is it good?	22:06
Arif_	yes and yes	22:06
Arif_	only thing bad about it is the keyboard is too crappy to play properly :P	22:07
Arif_	+that	22:07
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LuciusMare	buy a wiimote :)	22:07
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ptl	I voted for drnoksnes	22:09
ptl	10 votes	22:09
ptl	I use it regularly and it's pretty stable	22:09
* RST38h just read it as "dorksnes". Oh shit.		22:09
ptl	lol	22:09
ptl	yeah, the name is weird	22:10
javispedro	it has quite a story behind it	22:10
javispedro	well, not.	22:10
ptl	I often change the letter order	22:10
ptl	but it's doctor Nok SNES	22:10
javispedro	yep	22:10
ptl	so, dr. nok snes	22:10
LuciusMare	"Dork's NES" ?	22:10
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javispedro	comes from mixing drpocketsnes and nokiasnes	22:11
ptl	I don't know who is doctor Nok. Is he better than Gregory House? Is he a pediatrician? A neurologist?	22:11
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ptl	oh...	22:11
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LuciusMare	ptl: no way better than drwho	22:11
javispedro	And I didn't made any of the those two names :)	22:11
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RST38h	Dr Nok is the Nokia founder	22:11
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Arif_	ptl, its Alan Harper in disguise!	22:12
RST38h	He used the first Nokian tire to catch the Fish, as shown at the first Nokia logo	22:12
Arif_	oh btw	22:12
Arif_	the Wiimote doesn't have enough buttons to use as SNES controller	22:12
Arif_	unless you can use the classic controller, which I doubt ;9	22:12
ptl	Imagine if Dr. Nok had married the debian founder. Instead of deb + ian we'd have Nokian GNU/Linux.	22:12
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LuciusMare	haha	22:13
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* ptl detects obscure reference to first Nokia logo and will google for it		22:14
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LuciusMare	Wasn't nokia first a tire making company?	22:15
ptl	Nokia sold rubber bands?	22:15
RST38h	Rubber products	22:15
ptl	yes	22:15
LuciusMare	erm	22:15
RST38h	Tires, boots, condoms	22:15
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ptl	http://www.about-nokia.com/history/logo.php	22:15
LuciusMare	right	22:15
ptl	lol	22:15
lpotter	actually timber	22:15
LuciusMare	"connecting people"	22:15
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RST38h	Which kinda makes me wonder why they can't produce a decent body protector...	22:15
ptl	condoms really do connect people	22:15
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LuciusMare	yeah, more like separate	22:15
LuciusMare	:P	22:15
ptl	they isolate, but they help connecting without dire consequences	22:16
ptl	so they help connecting	22:16
ptl	the pope complains about that all the time	22:16
LuciusMare	hm...	22:16
* LuciusMare puts a condom on his ethernet cable going to the internet		22:16
RST38h	ptl: He has probably got spines and needles all over, so he cannot use condoms	22:17
RST38h	Hence complaints.	22:17
Arif_	they made paper too, right?	22:17
Arif_	:O	22:17
RST38h	really gnight now	22:17
Arif_	LuciusMare, it only protects %99 of all attacks!	22:17
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LuciusMare	gah	22:18
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* Arif_ sends LuciusMare N900 PR1.2 3.2010.09-9 EURO.bin.exe		22:19
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* condom filters out the attack		22:19
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* Arif_ turns DMZ on in LuciusMare's router		22:21
ptl	that recalled me of a bug report I opened in ubuntu when my firefox tried to run a virus from a webpage through wine.	22:21
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Arif_	lol	22:21
LuciusMare	hah	22:21
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lcuk	i still dont know who valhalla and imadsousou are	22:21
Stskeeps	the two dictators of meego	22:22
lcuk	or even which channel im on	22:22
ptl	that was one of the supidest bugs ever. And they were not finding where to fix it. A simple change in mailcap would do it...	22:22
lcuk	lol	22:22
ptl	well, I'm curious	22:22
ptl	let's see what happened to this bug report	22:22
LuciusMare	ptl: why didnt you tell them?	22:22
ptl	i did	22:23
Arif_	I reported one bug and I'm still waiting for a fix	22:23
Arif_	:P	22:23
LuciusMare	I once reported a bug	22:23
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LuciusMare	with a patch	22:24
LuciusMare	took them two months	22:24
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ptl	hmm... didn't find	22:25
LuciusMare	:(	22:26
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* Arif_ yawns at Moomo 5		22:26
ptl	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/309214 -- I opened it 18 dec. 2008	22:27
ptl	not resolved yet	22:27
Hoxzer_	anybody has a lirc configs for irreco?	22:28
ptl	oh	22:28
ptl	fix was committed.	22:28
ptl	there was a duplicate... which has a higher number?	22:29
ptl	Hoxzer_: you have to search the lirc configuration page	22:29
LuciusMare	the later one	22:29
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ptl	LuciusMare: yes, and how can my ticket be a duplicate of a later one? isn't it the opposite?	22:30
ptl	oh well	22:30
ptl	let it be	22:30
ptl	the bug is fixed anway	22:30
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Arif_	yay for opensource with community input!	22:34
Arif_	:P	22:34
LuciusMare	yay for.	22:34
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* Shapeshifter is looking forward to the pyside release		22:41
LuciusMare	Oh, and any progress with usb host/serial communication?	22:42
ptl	why the name pyside anyway?	22:42
ptl	it doesn't remind me of qt	22:42
Shapeshifter	ptl: ask #pyside?	22:42
Shapeshifter	^^	22:42
ptl	let's see	22:42
ptl	no response	22:44
Shapeshifter	ptl: It's a relatively quiet place	22:44
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Shapeshifter	ptl: AND you got an answer just now	22:44
LuciusMare	:D	22:44
Arif_	I crave roasted sunflower seeds...	22:45
LuciusMare	so, ptl?	22:45
Arif_	={	22:45
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Shapeshifter	21:44 < baraujo > ptl, Py for Python and "Side" is the finnish word for "binding", IIRC	22:45
LuciusMare	ha	22:45
mortal	is it possible to automatically form a radio station list on n800?	22:45
Shapeshifter	which makes sense, because part of the pyside project is general C++ binding generation for python, not just Qt.	22:46
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LuciusMare	any progress with usb host/serial communication?	22:46
acidjazz	i think maemo shoudl get an award for people contributing the most useless apps ever in the history of cell phones	22:47
acidjazz	MRAWviewer is an image viewer for RAW image file formats as those produced by modern DSLRs.	22:47
acidjazz	yea cuz we all need that on our cell phones	22:47
LuciusMare	acidjazz: yeah, it also ran through my mind when seeing such as "daddyhelper" "girlperiodwatch"	22:47
acidjazz	lol	22:47
javispedro	yes yes! we need more fart apps!	22:47
achipa	acidjazz: cuz fart apps are overrated	22:47
Shapeshifter	acidjazz: the point is, if one persone needs it, he can just write it in any language they want, and offer it. if only one other person also uses it, it's already win.	22:48
LuciusMare	well, raw viewer is at least reasonable	22:48
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ptl	is there at least one fart app for the N900?	22:48
achipa	ptl: moobox	22:48
GeneralAntilles	acidjazz: yeah, not iPhone and it's 1001 farts apps or anything.	22:48
Shapeshifter	ptl: cat /usr/share/icons///* > /dev/dsp?	22:48
LuciusMare	lmao	22:48
GeneralAntilles	acidjazz: just because YOU can't envision a usage for it, doesn't mean other people wont.	22:48
javispedro	and if there isnt i will send you boxed farts by free	22:48
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acidjazz	GeneralAntilles: the iphone also has apps that are useful as all hell	22:48
GeneralAntilles	Hey, so does Maemo!	22:49
* GeneralAntilles uses FBReader every day.		22:49
LuciusMare	+1	22:49
ptl	Shapeshifter: lol	22:49
acidjazz	sure it does	22:49
ptl	Shapeshifter: why not vmlinuz? the kernel song!	22:49
Shapeshifter	mh. no /dev/dsp :o	22:49
GeneralAntilles	acidjazz: so your point is, nothing?	22:49
Shapeshifter	ptl: icons music usually has great rythms	22:50
Shapeshifter	but some farts as well.	22:50
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Shapeshifter	btw, some dude in here was right yesterday. turning off skype (just IM, never called anyone) increased my battery life at least 2h over a day.	22:51
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* LuciusMare never turns on im unless he want to contact someone		22:51
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javispedro	dont you measure your battery life in weeks then	22:52
LuciusMare	no, i use my n900 as a lightbulb	22:52
acidjazz	GeneralAntilles: we _Dont_ have those useful apps	22:52
GeneralAntilles	acidjazz: bullshit.	22:52
ptl	Shapeshifter: activate SmartReflex!!! :P	22:52
acidjazz	GeneralAntilles: show me shazam .. pandora .. fucking google maps.	22:52
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acidjazz	GeneralAntilles: show me one app we have thats a top 20 or top 50 appf or iphone or android	22:53
GeneralAntilles	We have a browser that doesn't suck which eliminates 90% of the crap you're going to pull up.	22:53
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acidjazz	thats not an app	22:53
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GeneralAntilles	Right, because having a browser that can actually do stuff means you don't need dedicated applications to do Google searches. . . .	22:54
acidjazz	you're getting off topic	22:54
acidjazz	and you're also wrong	22:54
Shapeshifter	ptl: any downsides? I read there "might" be crashes and stuff	22:54
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GeneralAntilles	acidjazz: clearly.	22:54
GeneralAntilles	acidjazz: troll elsewhere.	22:54
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ptl	Shapeshifter: I didn't use it, I have no issues with the somewhat short battery life. Everywhere I go there's an outlet.	22:55
ptl	*I don't use it	22:55
LuciusMare	if we dont have them, go ahead and write them	22:55
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ptl	but it seems that your mileage may vary wildly	22:55
LuciusMare	mileage ^^	22:55
ptl	some people on the bug report page report all kinds of reboots and problem... other people report no issues at all	22:55
javispedro	i enabled smartreflex this morning	22:56
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javispedro	it seems there is a bit of an improvement when not in idle	22:56
javispedro	but none at all in idle time	22:56
javispedro	(speculation only for now)	22:56
GeneralAntilles	javispedro: wasn't there a stability issue?	22:57
ptl	I translated the recipe to portuguese and posted in a couple brazilian sites.	22:57
konttori	lcuk: I just sent you nuvo 1.08 to your gmail. Have a go while talking on the meego-meeting	22:57
GeneralAntilles	Seems like Igor had something to say about it on -developers. . .	22:57
ptl	with a big red warning, of course...	22:57
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: yes I backed up stuff. no problems so far though.	22:57
ptl	shake your phone, see if it reboots.	22:58
* javispedro does		22:58
javispedro	no reboots.	22:58
LuciusMare	what is smartreflex?	22:59
Shapeshifter	LuciusMare: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7633	22:59
povbot	Bug 7633: Enable SmartReflex on N900 by default	22:59
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SpeedEvil	varying supply volts	22:59
ptl	LuciusMare: a hidden feature of the N900 processor that helps extend battery life	22:59
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ptl	not really hidden	22:59
ptl	but not advertised	22:59
* GeneralAntilles was just typing that		22:59
ptl	and no enabled by default	22:59
GeneralAntilles	Well, TI advertises it.	22:59
SpeedEvil	so hidden that there are several hundred pages in the datasheet about it.	23:00
javispedro	not really hidden and doesnt improve much :)	23:00
Shapeshifter	what a random mixed bag of experiences with enabling this...	23:00
ptl	yeah, I figured the same.	23:01
ptl	no pattern there	23:01
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LuciusMare	confirming, i will not enable it till someone finds the pattern	23:01
javispedro	because nobody does formal testing	23:01
GeneralAntilles	Shapeshifter: seems a popular trait for OMAP3 features.	23:01
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ptl	what is better: fcron, alarmed or system event scheduler?	23:03
ptl	*which	23:03
Shapeshifter	ptl: alarmed, because I wrote it :P	23:03
LuciusMare	ha	23:03
Shapeshifter	ptl: I haven't actually tried the others ;) fcron seems nice though. alarmed as a gui.	23:03
LuciusMare	i got a call, it ended... but the portrait mode stood	23:03
ptl	Is it stable? I've read in the very beginning that it had some issues (and congrats for theapp)	23:03
* LuciusMare is typing sideways		23:03
javispedro	system, because you can count on it existing	23:03
Shapeshifter	What's this "system event scheduler"?	23:04
javispedro	and it will even power on the handheld for you :)	23:04
javispedro	alarmd	23:04
ptl	huh? no, system event scheduler is a new app	23:04
javispedro	without the e	23:04
Shapeshifter	javispedro: alarmed is a frontend I wrote for alarmd.	23:04
ptl	it's in extras-devel	23:04
Shapeshifter	so it uses alarmd.	23:04
javispedro	ah, good job then	23:04
ptl	http://nokia-n900.com/silent-on-time-system-event-scheduler/	23:04
LuciusMare	wait, how can it turn on the handheld?	23:04
javispedro	it calls a zombie	23:05
javispedro	which does it for you	23:05
LuciusMare	right, but... nevermind	23:05
ptl	a cron-like daemon that works when the device is off? That would be terrific, lol	23:05
javispedro	it does it like your average pc98 does	23:05
Shapeshifter	ptl: seems like that's something similar to alarmed. but I know that mine got quite a nice set of features including specifying your own commands.	23:05
javispedro	with an rtc and a good power supply.	23:05
LuciusMare	never figured out how does it do that	23:06
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MarcusM	Is it possible to disable _all_ kind of mobile internet and only allow wifi? Curious (:	23:06
ds3	has anyone tried creating a Maemo4 chroot environment on a N900?	23:06
Shapeshifter	ptl: also, alarmd (and as such the alarmed frontend) does turn the device on indeed. And I can't even implement an option to turn that behavior off because it's missing from the pymaemo bindings -.-	23:06
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MarcusM	on n900 that is.	23:07
Shapeshifter	the pymaemo bindings are crippled. and once I reported a bug including fix (very obvious bug that completely brakes dbus event scheduling) and it's not fixed to this day.	23:07
asj_	hey that's my program, lol	23:07
LuciusMare	define: once	23:07
Arif_	MarcusM, offline mode? :P	23:07
LuciusMare	Arif_: wifi at offline mode, indeed	23:07
MarcusM	Arif_: That wouldn't exactly allow incoming calls/sms, would it? :P	23:07
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MarcusM	I only meant data etc.	23:07
Arif_	its hard to allow sms/calls when the network is disabled	23:08
Arif_	XD	23:08
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nidO	how about just delete your mobile internet apn?	23:08
MarcusM	I mean the web network etc :P All the expensive part (:	23:08
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Arif_	get a web only sim :P	23:08
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Arif_	I never notice incoming SMS messages	23:09
Arif_	the sound is so quiet....	23:09
dneary	VDVsx, Ping?	23:09
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Arif_	and doesn't play when you're listening to music	23:09
MarcusM	I'm being misunderstood (: I want to temporary only allow the n900 to do calls & sms via my sim. No auto-connect to mobile network.	23:09
VDVsx	dneary, pong	23:09
user__	hi	23:09
nidO	just turn auto connect off...	23:10
Arif_	MarcusM, disabled auto connect to internet	23:10
dneary	VDVsx, I don't know if you saw jacktanner's request on "ask the council" - I sent him on to you because the situation is kind of delicate	23:10
Arif_	it'll always ask, though :P	23:10
MarcusM	nid0: I do not have a n900 yet, so I wouldn't be able to mess with that yet ;)	23:10
asj_	LuciusMare: the alarm server can turn on the phone if you ask it to. So if you have an alarm set like "time to get dressed" the phone can turn on and give you the alarm	23:10
MarcusM	Arif_: Ah, god.	23:10
MarcusM	good	23:10
Arif_	but that really annoyed me after 10 minutes	23:10
ptl	Shapeshifter: I misunderstood it, when you said it turned the device on I thought that you meant that it was really off -- powered off, not screen-off.	23:10
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Arif_	now to implement auto disconnect and Nokia's done	23:10
dneary	He missed the account creation date window by 2 weeks for election eligibility, but he's been doing stuff in Maemoi since Christmas.	23:10
dneary	It's a grey zone	23:10
Shapeshifter	ptl: yeah, "really off".	23:10
user__	i'm on n900 with xchat, what i can do to view the user list? sorry for my english i'm italian.	23:11
Shapeshifter	ptl: btw, cpython is "the" python. the usual python interpreter everyone uses.	23:11
ptl	Shapeshifter: oh	23:11
Shapeshifter	ptl: if you run python, you run cpython (in almost every case).	23:11
ptl	ok	23:11
dneary	So I told him he's not eligible according to the rules, but perhaps you might allow him to vote based on his activity	23:11
ptl	instead of jython, is it?	23:11
VDVsx	dneary, no, I'm with limited Internet these days(mobile only), only saw some mails and I'm attending the meeting now	23:11
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dneary	I'm easy either way, but since the rules were established to prevent ballot-stuffing, and this is clearly not ballot stuffing, I'd personally (if the decision were mine) tend towards including him	23:12
ptl	Shapeshifter: there is no way to turn the device on if no software is running... it's powered off! That's what I understood...	23:12
VDVsx	dneary, don't know nothing about him or his activities, but fine by me	23:12
Shapeshifter	ptl: python is just a language, so there are some other interpreters but they're slower and have less features. cpython is the usual one. yeah jython is also another interpreter	23:12
dneary	VDVsx, It's in the "Ask the council" thread on Talk that he made the request	23:12
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Shapeshifter	ptl: no, there's something in the "BIOS" so to speak that can turn the device on	23:12
Shapeshifter	only taking out the battery will completely make it dead	23:13
ptl	Shapeshifter: at a given, programmed time?	23:13
Shapeshifter	ptl: yeah.	23:13
ptl	hmmm, wow. How to do this?	23:13
Shapeshifter	ptl: you can do that with most modern PCs btw in bios. on the n900? well alarmd/libalarm provides that functionality.	23:13
Jaffa	dneary: If we took the "maemo.org" account to mean any account on maemo.org (which we do for talk.maemo.org), then bugs.maemo.org counts similarly, surely?	23:13
nidO	ptl it's worth noting almost all mobile phones since the dawn of time have been able to do this	23:13
nidO	along with all pc's	23:13
VDVsx	dneary, will try to check later, but ok from my side, better send him to council at maemo dot org, if there's need for a more formal clearance	23:13
Jaffa	dneary: AIUI, his bugs.maemo.org account is older	23:13
ptl	nidO: I didn't know that, I've never seen a phone turn on by itself after I have turned it off.	23:14
nidO	in most cases it's just used for the alarms in phones	23:14
jacekowski	ptl: RTC	23:14
Shapeshifter	ptl: until now most of them just did that for alarms	23:14
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nidO	set an alarm, turn the phone off	23:14
jacekowski	ptl: in bios settings	23:14
dneary	Jaffa, By 3 weeks, yes	23:14
nidO	time gets reached, phone switches itself on, alarm goes off	23:14
jacekowski	ptl: you can tell it to wake up pc at specified time	23:14
dneary	Jaffa, Which is why it's a grey area :)	23:14
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jacekowski	ptl: because pc never shut's down really	23:15
jacekowski	at least not atx pc	23:15
dneary	VDVsx, He chose to do it in the open, on Talk. <shrug>	23:15
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Jaffa	dneary: But does his bugs.maemo.org account creation date preceded the deadline? If so, it doesn't seem very grey to _me_	23:15
VDVsx	dneary, can't promise anything, but you know my answer now (stupid ISP grrrr)	23:16
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MarcusM	ptl: I almost shitted myself when my phone suddenly started alarming while it was turned off. Now I know why. Rofl	23:16
Proteous	heh	23:17
ptl	MarcusM: I've never seen that happen, I'd be alarmed too, I live alone and my cats don't know how to turn on my devices :P	23:17
dneary	Jaffa, Rules is rules	23:18
ptl	VDVsx: you only have to promise PR1.2 gets released now!	23:18
Jaffa	dneary: Indeed, but we parse "maemo.org account" to mean "any account on maemo.org"; including Garage, Talk and - by extension - Bugs. Better to have the discussion than not, of course	23:18
VDVsx	ptl, will be released until the end of the year, my dog promises that :P	23:19
* GeneralAntilles is with Jaffa.		23:19
ptl	VDVsx: THIS year?	23:20
VDVsx	ptl, let me ask	23:21
VDVsx	yes	23:21
ptl	well, something's better than nothing	23:21
VDVsx	I'm joking of course, I don't know nothing about that, neither have a dog :P	23:21
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ptl	oh :(	23:22
dneary	Jaffa, And by "we" you mean "I"?	23:22
VDVsx	ptl, sorry :P	23:22
dneary	Jaffa, I parse it by "date of account creation in the Midgard dump I get sent when I ask for it"	23:22
VDVsx	ptl, better ask a Nokian about that :P	23:22
dneary	And to figure out more, I need to go digging - spent half an hour looking to see what Mr. Tanner did to get his karma, and when, this morning	23:23
Jaffa	dneary: And by "we" I mean "we, the community, that you do"	23:23
Jaffa	dneary: The last election definitely, explicitly, included tmo accounts cos I worked with Reggie to give you a list of ones which were 3 weeks or older	23:23
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ptl	I thought you were a nokian, VDVsx. Indeed, I thought you were "the" nokian, something like a leader.	23:24
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VDVsx	ptl, lolol, nop only Maemo Community council member for a few more days ;)	23:25
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javispedro	lies!	23:26
javispedro	you're planning a coup detat, evil chairman!	23:26
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VDVsx	trip to vegas with the imaginary council money :P	23:26
javispedro	arggh	23:27
dneary	Jaffa, I also included talk accounts this election (got the cut-off date for talk IDs & there were 6 or 7 who had previously existing Talk accounts who made the karma requirement)	23:27
dneary	But for (for example) wikibedia edits or bugzilla bug reports, it's trickier	23:28
dneary	VDVsx, Enjoy your imaginary winnings !	23:28
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Jaffa	dneary: Wikipedia edits, to be signed, require a garage account don't they?	23:28
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx: lol.	23:28
Jaffa	s/Wikipedia/wiki/	23:29
infobot	Jaffa meant: dneary: wiki edits, to be signed, require a garage account don't they?	23:29
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GeneralAntilles	VDVsx: welcome to the "I thought you were a Nokian" club. :P	23:29
SpeedEvil	Wow. It's amazing how much better sandpapering my touchscreen made it.	23:29
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SpeedEvil	(blocks is bad)	23:29
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil: SANDPAPER?	23:29
SpeedEvil	(it was 2um sandpaper)	23:30
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, ehehe, but everybody knows that you're a undercover Nokian :p	23:30
GeneralAntilles	SpeedEvil: texture change?	23:30
SpeedEvil	leaves stuff shiny.	23:30
SpeedEvil	GeneralAntilles, naah - lots of scratches around the block origin point.	23:31
GeneralAntilles	Ah, I see.	23:31
jacekowski	they could have used capacitive touch screen	23:32
jacekowski	with glass	23:32
SpeedEvil	and pockets with sand in.	23:32
jacekowski	much more resilient	23:32
jacekowski	SpeedEvil: you are carrying sand in your pockets?	23:32
GeneralAntilles	jacekowski: pfft	23:32
Shapeshifter	jacekowski: pants made of sandpaper	23:32
GeneralAntilles	Much more useless, too.	23:32
SpeedEvil	jacekowski, gardening.	23:33
Shapeshifter	firefox is pretty awesome. but it's extremely lame that it's in ovi.	23:33
dneary	Jaffa, Well spotted	23:33
dneary	The tricky ones are blog karma, bugs activity, talk	23:33
SpeedEvil	jacekowski, http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/ listening to mp3 doing above.	23:33
jacekowski	btw.	23:34
jacekowski	i lost my headphones	23:34
jacekowski	where i can get a replacement?	23:34
* SpeedEvil was playing with desktop ff using n900 as display		23:34
SpeedEvil	interesting.	23:34
SpeedEvil	all-in-one gestures.	23:35
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GeneralAntilles	Shapeshifter: too lazy to fix their packaging.	23:35
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Shapeshifter	GeneralAntilles: well ff generally should fix their whole directory structure and everything	23:36
GeneralAntilles	Emphasis on the everything	23:36
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Guest71122	hello. what sw can i use to backup my n900? ovi suite 2 tells me that my n900 is not supported	23:39
nidO	try the backup tool on the device named "Backup" in it's menu	23:39
GeneralAntilles	^	23:39
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ds3	alright... guess I'll try it and see what happens then	23:40
Guest71122	hm.... i've installed a really old version of the pc suite which supports my phone. i cant believe the n900 isn't supported by ovi	23:41
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GeneralAntilles	ds3: how was week one with the N900, by the way?	23:45
ds3	GA: mixed... too many apps I couldn't use... short battery life; the pluses are the screen is great... the supplied apps work great with the new UI but they lack features... and I still need to learn about widgets	23:47
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GeneralAntilles	ds3: how short of a battery life?	23:49
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ds3	GA: barely a day (email only)	23:51
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ds3	the N800 did much better with tethering	23:51
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GeneralAntilles	ds3: yeah, cellular is rather killer	23:54
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GeneralAntilles	ds3: signal strength can be a big one, too	23:54
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GeneralAntilles	I get about 10 hours at my parents house thanks to the faraday cage that is plaster and lead paint	23:54
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ds3	nod I'm in low coverage areas a lot	23:54
GeneralAntilles	and about 16 at my apartment	23:54
GeneralAntilles	ds3: carry a second battery and call it a day, I guess.	23:54
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ds3	that or I am thinking of that high cap battery but that turns the N900 into a 1" slab	23:55
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Proteous	I turn off 3g when I am not webbrowsing and that drasticly increased the battery life	23:56
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ds3	I can probally learn to live with the horrible battery life... it is the apps that is killing me	23:56
GeneralAntilles	ds3: Mugen should be making one.	23:56
ds3	claws is choking more then it should... GarnetVM is choking	23:56
Proteous	there is a nice 2g/3g toggle app for the pop up control menu	23:56
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	23:56
ds3	GA: that's the one I am looking at	23:56
ds3	Proteous: I have that installed.... it is on my list of things to try	23:57
Shapeshifter	GeneralAntilles: mugen has made one.	23:57
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ds3	Shapeshifter: has anyone used it?	23:57
Shapeshifter	ds3: the lady in the presentation video xD	23:57
nidO	some people have bought the battery	23:57
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nidO	the back case is horribly designed	23:58
ds3	nid0: in what way?	23:58
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nidO	there're no magnets for camera cover or back cover on/off primarily, so various things dont work properly	23:58
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nidO	sd card mounting being a biggie	23:59
Proteous	ouch	23:59
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