IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-03-16

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Arif_I'm not too keen on accelerometer controlling00:00
ptlindeed it just seems it was built for it00:00
Noobmonk3yarif, can lend you and iphone ;)00:00
redShapeshifter: in 2010 and 2011 european SEPA countriies will start using a unified system for bank transactions00:01
* Noobmonk3y apologises for swearing00:01
Arif_eyephone has some nice games00:01
Shapeshifterred: which is brilliant00:01
Shapeshifterred: I'm already using it and it's brilliant.00:01
Arif_but ruined by accelerometer/touch00:01
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redthese get logged by a swiss corporation and CIA gets rights to view those logs00:01
redwhich i think is odd00:01
Shapeshifterred: I _am_ Swiss xD00:01
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haltdefwhat's wrong with it Arif_?00:02
Shapeshifterred: so, your source on this is?00:02
redI think ill start putting AL QAIDA -style messages into transaction text forms :D00:02
Arif_dunno, it just annoys me =D00:02
redwill be interesting to visit the states after a while then00:02
redShapeshifter: followed some links from wikipedia00:02
redhave an exam about SEPA tomorrow00:02
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redmainly the standard and the xml part of it00:02
redgot a bit sidetracked reading :)00:02
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Shapeshifterred: yeah but, while I don't know anything about it, I don't think the cia has some "exclusive" rights to it, and "logging" isn't exactly a wrong thing to do with banking transaction. Actually, it's extremely important00:03
redit had something to do with the swiss company having their servers located at US for some legal reasoin00:04
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redlogging stuff is a good thing, but having pigs over the bay using the info at their own whim illegally is another thing00:04
redi for one dont trust that country and it's administration one bit, damn world police00:05
Shapeshifterred: ack00:05
redi dont like surveillance :p00:06
humanoi need a howto tutorial to setup or configure the "IRC Protocol Plugin For Conversations And Contacts" for the n90000:06
* Noobmonk3y burps00:06
Jaffaslonopotamus: pong00:07
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corecodeso how does that whole scratchbox thing work?00:19
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Shapeshifterblack magic to be more specific.00:26
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kynkythere's this box, scratch and sniff00:27
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corecode  Connection failed [IP: 80]00:48
hayalperestcan anybody help me with knots 2, i've done all of the steps00:48
hayalperestjust hte last part doesn't work00:48
hayalperestis this the right channel to be in?00:49
corecodeRunning apt-get update on 'FREMANTLE_ARMEL'.00:49
corecode0% [Waiting for headers]00:49
corecodehayalperest: what's knots200:50
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hayalperestit's a program that lets you stream media off your desktop00:50
hayalperestcan somebody please help?00:50
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nidOexactly what problem are you having with it00:52
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wazdHTC HD2 will not be upgraded to Windows Phone 7  series00:54
wazdfail :D00:54
hayalperestit works perfectly fine with ssl off on my 3g00:55
hayalperestbut when i turn it on, i cannot connect to it00:55
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hayalperestit just says it can't connect00:55
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corecodeanybody else have problems using via scratchbox?00:59
corecodeit hangs00:59
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pupnik_htc may have hired a decdent designer but they are no nokia01:00
pupnik_and nobody in korea gets open-source01:00
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pupnik_so really, screw them01:00
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pupnik_corecode: browse archives for possible solutions01:02
corecodepupnik_: i am01:02
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nidOjust tried to download an app from ovi store01:03
nidOit failed01:03
nidOand now all my repos are gone :\01:03
corecodepupnik_: that link doesn't work in my browser either01:04
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ShapeshifternidO: they've been gone for hours01:06
nidOno i meant01:06
nidOthe actual list of repos on my device01:06
corecodeShapeshifter: the repos?01:06
Shapeshiftercorecode: yes01:06
corecodenidO: yea, i had the same01:06
corecodealright then01:06
pupnik_Stskeeps: ping01:07
corecodemodest doesn't want to be fixed01:07
corecodecan't compile for gtk, can't set up scratchbox01:07
pupnik_how about we make someone who hangs out here sub-admin for maemo.org01:07
* pupnik_ blinks sweetly01:07
nidOI could do that nps, im slack enough to be here most of the time \o/01:08
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silfermehmm, this seems to work fine01:26
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* SpeedEvil sighs.01:33
SpeedEvilI've removed the protector for the third time, trying for a clean install01:33
silfermedoes anyone have experience connecting vnc between vista and maemo? i just cant get it work on the windose side...01:34
kynkyvnc server is running on what ?01:35
ml-maemowhat server are you using?01:36
kynkycan you connect to isa vnc serverfrom anything else ?01:36
kynkyi always choose tightvnc if i can01:37
silfermeim using realvnc and trying to run the server on vista and connect with maemo01:37
ml-maemoonly UltraVNV works on vista and up, IIRC01:37
ml-maemoI never got RealVNC to work01:38
silfermeok, thanks01:38
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silfermei just keep on getting "not accepting incoming connections" no matter what i do01:39
silfermebut i give ultravnc a shot01:39
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tremnite all, sweet dreams01:45
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burchr # I wonder if I was a little too forthright01:48
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wiretappedawesome, my n900 just did that thing where it gets a call, drops it, starts playing music, and stops responding to input01:56
wiretappedso my officemates were just treated to over a minute of the music i was last listening to01:56
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andre900the "stops responding to input" part is new to me01:58
aakashdanyone know where I can get the latest firmware image for the n900 (not UK)01:58
* wiretapped is tickled pink that, though this is probably a bug in one of nokia's numerous proprietary components around the telephony functionality, it generally reflects poorly on linux/free software as a phone OS01:59
aakashdI went to and the link to the image directs to an Error page01:59
Vrathajust bought a ups for my n900 server01:59
andre900aakashd: ?01:59
Vrathaso my static web page server won't go down01:59
Vrathajust kidding02:00
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aakashdsame thing unfortunately :(02:01
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njsf_Hi all02:04
njsf_Wanted to help with the testing marathon. Where can I find info about it?02:05
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* RST38bis is fucked in Logan02:10
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toresbeHey, just got my N900 and _very_ happy with it, with a very few exceptions... chief amongst them, the alarm clock gives up before I've woken up02:35
tank-manthats what snooze is for02:36
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GeneralAntillesHeavy sleeper. . . .02:37
GeneralAntillesChoose a louder alarm sound?02:37
RST38bismoo General02:37
N900evilvolume at max?02:37
N900eviltried alter02:37
N900evilnate alarms?02:37
toresbeDoesn't matter how loud it is - I think there's something in that if I know it will stop after a short while I don't wake up. :P02:38
pupnik_sleep 25000 && mplayer pig_halal_slaughter.mp302:38
toresbeThat's what I used to do on my laptop02:38
toresbeIs mplayer in the repos?02:38
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toresbeAh, excellent! Thanks.02:38
toresbeBTW, is there any particular reason why the ringtone only plays the first few seconds and loops that instead?02:39
pupnik_i drink plenty of juice to ensure wakeup02:40
DocScrutinizertoresbe: pupnik_: I suggest to replace the sleep 25000 by alarmed02:40
pupnik_ahh? ty02:40
DocScrutinizervery handy app02:41
GeneralAntillesHey, RST38bis.02:41
pupnik_+1karma DocScrutinizer02:41
toresbereal shame screen isn't in the repo02:41
xorAxAxit is02:42
xorAxAxin the tools repo or something like that02:42
toresbeI like this channel. I think I'll stay here. ;)02:42
toresbeThe ringtone thing is a bother, though. Do you think it warrants a bug report, or is there a reason it would become a WONTFIX?02:43
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pupnik_toresbe: It is dangerous to go alone. Take this!
xorAxAxit should be configurable02:44
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pupnik_wrong os02:44
toresbespotted that. :)02:44
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DocScrutinizertoresbe: ringtone thing? contact specific ringtones?02:45
toresbeDocScrutinizer: No, ringtones loop at the first few seocnds02:45
DocScrutinizererr what?02:45
DocScrutinizernot seen here02:46
toresbeIt happens with the alarm, too. It plays the first fair few seconds and loops there.02:46
DocScrutinizer??? not here02:46
corecode:/ mails at night wake me up02:46
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toresbeIf you have a long MP3, will it play the whole thing_02:47
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corecodei need something to inhibit mail vibrate at night02:47
DocScrutinizeryes, it actually does02:47
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DocScrutinizeralways makes me hesitant to pick up a call as I like the song so much ;-P02:47
DocScrutinizerworks like a charm02:48
toresbeI have the Internationale. :)02:48
toresbeit gets fun reactions from bitter old men on the tube.02:48
DocScrutinizerD.A.F Musolini :-P02:48
toresbeAh, fun! I like that one.02:49
njsf_Anyone knows if there is any additional app for custom ring tones per caller ?02:49
DocScrutinizernjsf_: not *yet* - there's quite a number of projects tackling that though02:50
njsf_Any one of them in extras-devel ? Or even too early for that ?02:51
toresbeI _really_ like my N900, btw. And not just for the geeky stuff like being able to freakin' SSH into my phone. SSH!02:51
toresbeI scp mp3s to it! it's brilliant!02:51
njsf_I wouldn't mind be a guinea pig02:51
toresbeI ssh'd from my old symbian phone to my new phone!02:51
RST38bisyou can ssh into android02:51
DocScrutinizernjsf_: none has reached an alpha state yet02:51
toresbeI know, but still fairly crazy.02:51
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njsf_to me the best feature of the N900 is the python builtin02:52
toresbeTo me it's the good UI02:52
RST38bisthe truth is, maemo is no longer exclusive in its niche (:02:52
toresbeMaemo actually has a very good UI which I sort of didn't expect, because it's Linux.02:52
njsf_well I have had some frequent "freezes" with PR1.1.1 so the UI I have mixed feelings. Pretty but not snappy :(02:53
RST38bislinux has nothing to do with ui02:53
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DocScrutinizernjsf_: the problem with caller specific ringtones is: dialer app is closed source, and nobody seems to know how to swap the ringtone 'on the fly'02:55
njsf_DocScrutinizer: is any of the projects in garage? Maybe I could lend a hand?02:55
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njsf_DocScrutinizer: yeah, I thought so. My guess is the only way is by having the file be a pipe and listen to the caller notif in D-Bus then feed the real data through the pipe02:56
toresbeRST38bis: Most "hey, it's got Linux"-marketed devices I've seen have had horrible UIs.02:56
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njsf_that is if the dialer app does not check for the file not to be a pipe02:56
DocScrutinizerI don't know about particular project names, just about couple of guys asking related questions here and discussing how to tackle the whole thing02:56
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toresbeI find myself wishing for a tinyhttpd on the N900 though. :)02:57
njsf_ic, thanks anyway!02:57
DocScrutinizernjsf_: that's a good idea indeed02:57
njsf_toresbe: I believe lighthttpd is in one of the extras02:57
toresbeOdd, I did search for httpd02:57
DocScrutinizernjsf_: catching the caller notif on dbus is a snap02:58
DocScrutinizerno magic in that one02:58
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njsf_yeah I might also have a go at it03:00
njsf_fun first maemo project I guess :)03:00
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* DocScrutinizer suggests mdbus2. "dbus never has been so much fun" :-)03:01
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johnxmornin' all03:03
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johnxhey njsf_, Doc03:06
johnxanything interesting over the weekend?03:06
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toresbeErr fremantle/free Packages 504 Gateway Time-out [IP: 80]03:06
toresbeIs that somehow my fault, or is it a wider problem_03:07
DocScrutinizerrepos sometimes sloooow03:07
toresbeI'll say!03:07
johnxsometimes slow, sometimes b0rken, sometimes autobuilder is slow (or down) :)03:07
johnxSerious growing pains03:07
johnxyeah, I get an error in my browser visiting
toresbeThat's a good thing, though... at least there's growth :)03:08
johnxI would have been gone a long time ago if there wasn't :)03:08
njsf_just tried an apt-get update and repository, seems to be going, albeit slow03:10
DocScrutinizerjohnx: (new) well, I found alarmed app for me - great :-D I guess that's no real news though03:10
johnxhmm, that reminds me: has anyone managed decent cron emulation with alarmd?03:11
DocScrutinizeron the way03:11
njsf_Well I made a 1952 telephone ringtone from a sample online at a free sound project03:11
johnxevery year or so I think about writing it, but haven't gotten around to it yet03:11
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter promised he'll implement the cmdline interface to alarmed next, according to my request03:12
johnxnjsf_, fun. I actually stole the ringtone from the new star trek movie :>03:12
johnxpast and future I s'pose03:12
RST38bismoo johnx03:12
johnxm00f RST38bis.03:12
RST38bisjohnx: what is new and exciting? =)03:13
johnxRST38bis, new? daylight savings time started (ended?) here03:13
johnxlost an hour of weekend03:13
njsf_arg tell me about it...03:13
RST38bisjohnx: I had a flight at 6:4503:13
njsf_and a crappy weekend at that03:13
GeneralAntillesRST38bis, you've got a CR-V, right?03:14
RST38bisjohnx: so you can imagine my excitement...03:14
RST38bisGeneral: yes03:14
GeneralAntillesRST38bis, how do you like it?03:14
RST38bisGen: well, I have got the original 1997 one03:14
johnxGeneralAntilles, trading up?03:14
GeneralAntillesjohnx, to a CR-V? God no.03:14
RST38bisGen: it still runs like new03:14
GeneralAntillesMy sister's looking for a saner college car than the Miata she's currently driving. ;)03:15
GeneralAntillesRST38bis, ah, I think this one's an '05.03:15
johnxHonda: It'll still be running long after you wish it weren't03:15
timeless_mbphow about a nice shiny bicycle?03:15
GeneralAntillesjohnx, Honda: You paid too much. ;)03:15
GeneralAntillestimeless_mbp, in Florida?03:15
RST38bisGen: It fits one college girl with her room, fridge, boyfriend and driver03:15
johnxGeneralAntilles, only if you bought it new :)03:15
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timeless_mbpGeneralAntilles: not so shiny?03:15
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, the used market is still ridiculously overpriced.03:15
RST38bisGen: boyfriend will have to carry her on his laps though03:16
johnxGeneralAntilles, look back into the early '80s03:16
johnxthere are some deals to be had03:16
GeneralAntillesYeah, we want newfangled things like sidecurtain airbags and whatnot. :P03:16
* GeneralAntilles is leaning more towards the Volvo S40.03:17
pupnik_n900 is really a laptop killer03:17
RST38bisGen: generally does not care about pavement, although I would suggest against putting 3 or more wheels into deep water at high speed.03:17
johnxuhm, the funny thing about airbags in a used car is you really have no idea if they've already fired until you get into an accident when you needed them and they didn't fire03:17
GeneralAntillesCR-V has to have the worst deadpedal on any car I've ever driven.03:17
GeneralAntillesjohnx, depends on where you're buying from, I guess. ;)03:17
RST38bisGen: will drive over up to 30cm of snow03:17
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GeneralAntillesRST38bis, no snow worries. ;)03:18
johnxGeneralAntilles, which explains why you think hondas are overpriced ;)03:18
njsf_pupnik_: It is once you fix the kbd map so it accepts regular keystrokes from a portable BT keyboard :D03:18
RST38bisGen: yes, it accelerates about as graceously as a trolley car, sorry03:18
GeneralAntillesjohnx, ehehe.03:18
njsf_I mean, to accept the numbers row, because out of the box it only accepts the alpha keys03:18
RST38bisGen: it is no miata, more like a 4wd accord with a small shack installed on top03:18
RST38bisGen: but as a shack, it is pretty damn good03:19
johnxRST38bis++ (though I think it's a civic motor)03:19
RST38bisjohnx: nope, accord03:19
johnxshows what I know :)03:19
GeneralAntillesIt's just an Accord with a different body.03:19
RST38bisjohnx: hrv is civic, but us did not get hrv03:20
RST38bisGeneral; well it uses 4wd transmission from civic wagovan03:20
GeneralAntillesIt's FWD03:20
RST38bisGeneral: and they had to modify the engine03:20
johnxjust get a station wagon03:20
RST38bisGeneral: it is awd, not fwd03:20
GeneralAntillesjohnx, she's not really interested in a V70 for some reason.03:21
GeneralAntillesRST38bis, this one is FWD.03:21
GeneralAntillesAWD is an option03:21
RST38bisGeneral: AVOID then03:21
johnxif you were looking back into the 90's I'd say impreza but for the love of all that is holy do not buy anything with the early 2.5L engine03:21
RST38bisGeneral: crv without awd is useless03:21
GeneralAntillesRST38bis, worst it's going to see is rain.03:21
RST38bisGeneral: you are buying it for space AND awd03:22
johnxthen there's no point ...03:22
RST38bisGeneral: awd saved my neck in heavy rain many times03:22
johnx<- AWD convert03:22
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I was drooling over an '06 Volvo S40 AWD T5 with the 6-speed.03:24
RST38biswithout awd it is just a really ugly accord that drives like a loaded hearse03:24
GeneralAntillesCrappy front-bias AWD, though.03:24
johnxnew cars weight too much03:25
johnxpesky airbags and stuff03:25
inz"A dog oversteers, which is more fun..." "...than an understeering hyena." "So, you want a Mazda MX-5 because it's a rear wheel drive."03:25
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GeneralAntillesHaldex, I think.03:25
njsf_toresbe: sorry for the delay ligHTTPd is on extras-testing..03:25
johnxnjsf_, keen03:26
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johnxthat'll be nice to have03:26
GeneralAntillesMiata is no fun in auto03:26
johnxthat's an abomination03:26
* RST38bis almost smashed a miata once03:26
* GeneralAntilles is still trying his damndest to cure his family of auto-idiocy.03:26
RST38biswith mazda mpv no less03:26
GeneralAntillesThe late-90s MPVs were ridiculously fun minivans.03:27
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RST38biswhenn driving a van, you usually find out about miatas post factum, by the loud continuous signal =)03:27
johnxaround here we'd call it mazda mating season03:28
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* GeneralAntilles answers Jaffa's stupid questions.03:28
* RST38bis goes to watch the rain03:29
sheepbathave you ever seen the rain?03:33
johnxComin' down on a sunny day?03:35
njsf_johnx: Have an awesome double rainbow picture taken with my beloved N900 down in Curitiba, Brazil earlier this year03:38
njsf_that day was particularly funky. Almost 2 hours of rain with sun03:38
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johnxit's funny how in some places that kind of thing is a common occurrence and in other places it's quite rare03:40
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GeneralAntillesFirst touch of Florida summer is making itself felt.03:47
johnxand it'll be miserably cloudy and rainy again until late june03:47
RST38bisjohnx: ferengi homeworld, indeed03:47
* RST38bis wonders if bill gates has got those huge round ears03:47
njsf_RST38bis: I was down in south of Brazil during January and the whole month it rained like this weekend03:47
njsf_every day there were ~10 flood deaths...03:47
RST38bisbut that was brazil! =)03:47
* GeneralAntilles fires off the email. . . .03:48
RST38bisrainforest & stuff03:48
johnxwe don't even get real east-coast rain. we just get this constant overcast sky with drizzle03:48
njsf_RST38bis: South of Brazil is hardly rainforest :D03:49
njsf_more like concrete forest03:49
RST38bisnever been to south america, there be dragons =)03:49
johnxwest of me is rain forest :)03:50
njsf_just not tropical :D03:51
RST38bish2o should be either up there in the clouds or down there as the snow, liquid h2o is bad =)03:51
njsf_ohhh and off the roads too when as snow03:52
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njsf_I can manage snow driving, but I can't vouch for the car behind ....03:53
johnxRST38bis, as a special exception, I also except liquid water when the temperature is above 30C and the liquid water arranged in a well maintained pool, lake or ocean03:53
johnxnjsf_, they're all so fun aren't they? They just slow down by 15km/h then tailgate each other03:54
RST38bisok, I guess you cant keep it as snow at 30oC03:54
* RST38bis cackles03:54
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GeneralAntillesOoh, Attila's running too.04:03
RST38bisok, as soon as they clean out the drool left by arriving passengers during landing...04:04
GeneralAntillesDamn liars at SmartHome.04:04
GeneralAntilles"Backordered until 5/23/10"04:04
GeneralAntillesShips in 4 days. . . .04:04
johnxI think maybe I'm confused about this Atilla?04:04
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GeneralAntillesachipa here, attila77 on Talk.04:05
* Arkenoi wonders if there gonna be 3g video calls in pr1.204:05
GeneralAntillesDon't get your hopes up.04:05
johnxIn my sleep deprived state I actually misparsed that as "Atilla's coming" which I took to mean the leader of the Huns04:06
johnxwhat are you grabbing from smarthome?04:06
GeneralAntillesGonna do an Insteon install in my parent's house.04:07
* GeneralAntilles is excited.04:07
GeneralAntillesI've been trolling the internet for the past few weeks for home automation information.04:07
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johnxI'm just happy to have my TV under the control of my HTPC at this point...but the Apple remote is proving to not fit the XBMC interface all that perfectly04:08
johnxSony Control-S is a neat trick...04:08
johnxI was thinking about an RFID door lock though04:08
ds3GA: what do you want to automate with Insteon?04:09
GeneralAntillesds3, mostly lighting.04:09
GeneralAntillesHook into a security setup eventually.04:09
GeneralAntillesjohnx, yeah, I'm gonna get some Morning Industries keypad/RF doorlocks.04:09
johnxI was going to take the hackaday approach I think04:10
ds3GA: what was the tipping point for Insteon instead of the older stuff like X10?04:10
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GeneralAntillesds3, mostly the improved protocol.04:11
GeneralAntillesSeems to require less fiddling more reliable, less subject to interference.04:11
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GeneralAntillesBetter looking devices.04:11
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DocScrutinizernever go for anything else than a bidir protocol for home automation!04:11
ds3isn't Insteon more expensive though?04:12
johnxIn DocScrutinizer's house the lights remotely control you!04:12
GeneralAntillesds3, a bit, but from everything I've read it seems to be worth it.04:12
ds3I see04:12
ds3and you're not willing to go for a wifi controlled power switch? :D04:12
GeneralAntillesDoes such a beast exist?04:13
GeneralAntillesds3, are you planning on buying, or do you have experience in the area?04:13
ds3you get a Ethernet to WiFi interface and a ethernet power switch04:13
ds3GA: I have a hodgepodge system with a bit of several things04:13
DocScrutinizerjohnx: nah, I'm just *sure* my door locked when I push the remote's button and the green light on remote flashed a second later04:13
johnxI just twist the doorknob and see04:14
ds3I love the ethernet power switches but X10 isn't too horrible04:14
johnxbut that might be the OCD04:14
GeneralAntillesMy mother's salivating at the prospect of being able to make sure all the doors are shut and locked and the lights are off from in bed with her iPhone.04:14
DocScrutinizerjohnx: also I know my lights are on or off, no matter if switched via local switch, remote, or central control unit04:14
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ds3I donno if I'd trust locks04:14
johnxDocScrutinizer, that is pretty neat04:15
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johnxmy apartment is so small that the lights aren't really a problem. Might be nice to have something for the blinds though and the front door04:15
DocScrutinizerjohnx: the light (well power) actors even have a feedback sensing for broken consumer (bulb burnt out)04:16
ds3FWIW, X10 controlling aquarium lights is way more reliable then light timers04:16
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DocScrutinizerjohnx: and as soon as you start using PIR motion sensors not for light only, but also for an integrated alarm system, you really want 2way communication with ACK/NAK and crypto04:18
johnxquite true04:18
johnxright now I'm just trying to figure out where to keep my bike ...04:19
GeneralAntillesburchr, don't take any of my posts for black-and-white. ;)04:19
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GeneralAntillesTag trolling04:22
GeneralAntillesWhat fun04:22
ArkenoiX10 is great04:22
Arkenoibut it is actually US-only04:22
DocScrutinizerX10 is a dynosaur04:23
GeneralAntillesVroom vroom04:23
johnxDinosaurs are great04:23
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ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, it is cheap and widespread, thus there is no alternative: everything other is several times more expensive and provides less functionality due to lack of supported devices04:24
SpeedEvilArkenoi: reallyu?04:24
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SpeedEvilerr - oops04:24
GeneralAntillesArkenoi, doesn't help if those devices never work reliably, though. ;)04:25
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: the being widespread is also one of the biggest disadvantages04:25
ArkenoiSpeedEvil, it incredibly sucks in europe: 220V x10 is expensive and unreliable04:25
DocScrutinizerI don't want my neighbour opening my garage door or switch on my electric heater04:25
ArkenoiSpeedEvil, 40 ukp, my ass!04:25
Arkenoiit is almost the same as does not exist04:26
SpeedEvilArkenoi: I'm not sure I want to know that your ass costs 40 ukp.04:26
SpeedEvilAnd someone needs to make widespread cheap zigbee stuff.04:27
* SpeedEvil is waiting.04:27
Arkenoithere is difference in home automation approach in US and Europe04:27
Arkenoifor US it is just usual thing available for decades04:27
Arkenoifor europe it is expensive luxury stuff for geeky rich guys04:28
Arkenoii talked to several companies who do home automation, they lose interest to you completely if you start complaining about price and technology and ask them why i need $800 remotes and $5K purpose-designed computer04:29
Arkenoiif you can do all that with pretty cheap generic things04:29
Arkenoiso fsck them04:30
DocScrutinizerfwiw - i'm using this->  for over a year now. Works like a charm04:34
pupnik_correct Arkenoi04:35
pupnik_there is also very little intderest in home alarm / automation04:36
pupnik_or was in 2002-304:36
Arkenoi(and Russia is Europe at its worst)04:38
DocScrutinizer(purpose designed computer)  is 400EUR, not 5K04:38
pupnik_why a remote key?04:39
DocScrutinizerstill way too much for such a friggin arm based uC04:40
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: ??04:40
pupnik_  war is poor poeple fighting poor people, at the04:42
pupnik_               expense of the middle class people, for the bennefit of the04:42
pupnik_ahh fuuu04:42
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pupnik_homematic is a .de company DocScrutinizer ?  do they sell ok w/o certification?04:44
DocScrutinizerhomematic is .de based. Production in mainland china. Sell ok? please rephrase04:46
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pupnik_i wonder if many germans insist on cerfitied devices ...04:47
DocScrutinizerI dunno about any certification, maybe they got some certs of assurances assoc or somesuch04:47
pupnik_i helped set up protection as a demo for a canadian company04:47
pupnik_many arguments about how / whether to expand into .de04:48
Arkenoipupnik_, i guess it has something to do with, say, fire insurance and stuff04:49
DocScrutinizerwell, as has been mentioned above home automation isn't a big deal in europe yet04:49
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, it made me wonder 10 years ago and it wonders me even more that situation did not change :-(04:50
pupnik_it was a good lesson for me in how difficult it is to predict market acceptance04:50
pupnik_yes Arkenoi  :)  but i have some answers from surveys i did04:50
DocScrutinizersee, if you have a X10mbased door locker, you won't see a penny of your burglary assurance when they clean out your flat. With this device of homematic there's no such issues as it uses a certified secure protocol04:51
DocScrutinizeralso the smoke detectors are certified and accepted by assurances04:54
pupnik_not many home fires in .de either z:)04:55
DocScrutinizerhmm, *I* had one, exactly 2 years ago :-o04:55
pupnik_from your geeky wires i bet04:56
johnxall I ever start are toaster oven fires ...04:56
DocScrutinizermini vacuum cleaner with NiMH and cheap charger04:57
DocScrutinizeris my major suspect04:57
pupnik_i suspect an opportunity for better heating room controls using arm devices in .de DocScrutinizer05:00
pupnik_i only find one company innovating there05:00
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: see
pupnik_but the central furnaces also now do some live adjusting based on estimated temps05:01
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ArkenoiDocScrutinizer: (even if a burglar comes through the window ;-)05:01
pupnik_ok two05:02
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: (even if a burglar comes through the window ;-)
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer, what control channel does eq3 equipment use?05:15
DocScrutinizer866MHz AES encrypted bidir05:15
DocScrutinizeror RS48505:15
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Arkenoiwell, it is much more expensive than generic 110V x10 i guess05:17
Arkenoibut it does not need control wires at least05:17
Arkenoiwhat about jamming resistance? how does it act if it accidentally loses signal from all sensors?05:18
pupnik_looks nice DocScrutinizer - do you know people who sell / install in .de?05:19
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: I guess that's configurable05:20
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: sells (for instance). Installing probably done by your electrician, or DIY05:21
DocScrutinizerfor the AES encryption, that's not entirely clear. Just found a flaming blog claiming it's not05:23
Arkenoihmm , iirc they are presented here in russia somehow. but last time i checked all that stuff was damn expensive. it was 5 years ago, though05:23
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KamuiN900whats new05:27
KamuiN900pr1.2 i hope :)05:27
DocScrutinizeryou tell us05:28
GeneralAntillesKamuiN900, probably soon-ish.05:29
dmj7261KamuiN900: How's the wrapper going?05:29
KamuiN900sup ga sup doc05:29
KamuiN900not good05:29
KamuiN900well im now studying opengl to figure out whats missing05:30
KamuiN900i cant compile with pseudo code on the wrapper05:30
KamuiN900and most of the funt mapping used in blender is complete05:30
KamuiN900i have a ton of missing constants and vars05:31
KamuiN900the lib is actually way more complex to wrap than just using the sdk05:31
KamuiN900even more so than i anticipated05:31
KamuiN900but i saw another gles lib that has missing opengl stuff wrapped05:32
KamuiN900i asked in the forums for someone to try a build using it and aste the output05:32
KamuiN900i might be doing double work at this point but am too far along to just scrap the env to see05:33
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KamuiN900also im a douche and was working with the gl headers directly05:33
KamuiN900so the build env isnt isolated05:33
KamuiN900at least not in the sandbox05:33
KamuiN900scratchbox even05:34
dmj7261Sounds like it's turning into an even bigger task than you thought.05:34
KamuiN900on a side note the last patches i made to the source yield under a half second of lag on the interface and primitives manip05:34
dmj7261Right now I'm trying to find out how to access the components that dial the phone.05:35
KamuiN900huge task dmj, but the result will be worth it05:35
KamuiN900esp for the community05:35
dmj7261That's why I'm eagerly anticipating your wrapper.05:35
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pupnik_man. just playing mp3s is hanging and sputterng..    34.3 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-p05:37
njsf_pupnik_: I've seen that also on the first 20s or so of some MP305:39
njsf_specially when mediaplayer is launched from gPodder05:40
njsf_I believe there is a bug already on it05:40
* DocScrutinizer thinks dialer app has to go opensource most urgently05:41
njsf_but the worst offender right now is the notification sound that either pauses or sutters during media playback05:41
GeneralAntillesand probably one of the least likely.05:41
dmj7261DocScrutinizer: You mean the phone dialing app?05:41
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: yeah, real PITA05:41
DocScrutinizerdmj7261: yep05:42
dmj7261I agree.05:42
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, frozen-trout assisted arguments may speed things along.05:42
njsf_DocScrutinizer: I think it is probably faster to reimplement a new one that to wait for Nokia to opensource it05:42
dmj7261DocScrutinizer: Do you know what apis control the phone?05:42
DocScrutinizerdmj7261: only cloudy ideas05:42
dmj7261I was thinking of writing a simple one.05:42
DocScrutinizertelepathy comes to mind05:43
dmj7261does telepathy control the gsm calls too?05:43
njsf_I believe that the drivers actually are d-bus accessible no?05:43
GeneralAntillesdmj7261, more or less.05:43
DocScrutinizerphonet is another buzzword05:44
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dmj7261What I want to be able to do is dial a number and start a phone call in my own app.05:44
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DocScrutinizerthat's easy I guess05:44
njsf_dmj7261: I've seen the dbus command line for it05:45
DocScrutinizerthere are dbus calls I seem to remember05:45
GeneralAntillesOne thing I miss about Flash videos is that they didn't start playing in background tabs.05:45
njsf_somewhere either on talk, or on the wiki05:45
dmj7261Could you look those up for me?05:45
DocScrutinizerall of those open up the nokia dialer app though05:45
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dmj7261so the dialer app will come to the foreground?05:46
njsf_Oh ic05:46
DocScrutinizerdmj7261: yup05:47
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DocScrutinizerI'm afraid even pnatd ATD911  does05:48
dmj7261That might be problematic05:48
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DocScrutinizersee, aiui dialer app really is a "daemon" listening to the modem all the time. As soon as it senses an ongoing call it opens dialöer screen to handle it05:49
dmj7261perhaps there's a way to kill that05:50
DocScrutinizersure there is05:50
DocScrutinizerdon't ask me how05:50
DocScrutinizerbut I'm rather sure that's a strongly discurraged way05:51
dmj7261I'm thinking of a phone app that will allow people without any vision to dial the phone.05:52
DocScrutinizerthat makes a GREAT reasoning for a bug ticket to open up the Nokia dialer :)05:52
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DocScrutinizeror at least comprehensively document the interfaces and operation modes05:53
dmj7261Yep, I'd like to add a vision-impaired ui+tools to the n900, so it becomes an excellent (and affordable) accessiblity tool.05:54
DocScrutinizerfile a bug05:54
dmj7261yeah, the main reason the current one doesn't work, is the phone app can't speak, so the person would have to guess the numbers.05:55
DocScrutinizerdang, we all thought that's the very least we get with N900 lunix based 'open' OS: being able to implement such things05:55
Openfreeis maemo repository server down, I can download packages there05:56
DocScrutinizer[2010-03-16 01:55:05] <DocScrutinizer> njsf_: the problem with caller specific ringtones is: dialer app is closed source, and nobody seems to know how to swap the ringtone 'on the fly'05:57
DocScrutinizerrepo seems borked atm. Some complaints in last few hours05:58
dmj7261Perhaps I will file a bug, and then wait on implementing phone functions.05:59
njsf_Well there are many basic issues with the phone app as it stands now IMO06:00
njsf_most actually already bugs06:00
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dmj7261I'd be glad to fix the bugs if I could.06:00
njsf_like, Celular call an option even when celular network is not available (either for real / phone off/ or no sim)06:00
njsf_dmj7261: me too06:00
DocScrutinizerdialer app is CRAP, and it's closed :-/06:00
dmj7261Actually most of the apps I complain about being crap in one way or another are closed.06:01
njsf_Well contacts is actually not much better06:01
dmj7261media player, camera app, dialer, ...06:01
njsf_but the problem I have with contacts I may actually be able to fix once I get the time06:01
njsf_because I have a contact that cannot be deleted06:01
njsf_somehow the EDS record is locked06:02
njsf_even accross reboots06:02
njsf_no merge of contact, no edit ebook removal06:02
dmj7261sounds like time for terminal fu06:02
DocScrutinizergreat :-D06:02
njsf_And the "delete the IM field removes it from the server list" is just attrocious, sometimes it is the right choice, but a mistake can be awkward06:03
njsf_"why did you remove me from your contact list'06:03
njsf_and it is not an option, just a warning, So if you merged wrongly, you're toast trying tto fix it06:03
DocScrutinizerthat's all a POC at best06:03
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njsf_Oh, and Ovi Suite actually synced contacts and calendar06:04
njsf_but the lastest 'improvement update' just removed calendar sync for N900 and made contact crash (probably the lock triggered it)06:04
njsf_Closed Nokia stuff is really in the way. Only cool thing there is the SIP+Skype integration06:05
njsf_Conversations is dog slow to display...06:05
dmj7261from what I hear, the skype thing is actually far better for us than the winmo/android users.06:06
DocScrutinizereven there are bugs06:06
njsf_It takes me ~40s between a notification and a window to open for a contact that I have some history with... yay for javascript filling of the conversation window06:06
dmj7261winmo users just lost their ability to get a skype app.06:06
njsf_yes, skype and sip are the highlights, but everything else is pain06:06
DocScrutinizerinbound SIP calls are like "" - no match with contacts numbers06:06
njsf_nokia should just make the dbus interface for this, provide a default UI06:07
njsf_and open the floodgates for community innovation06:08
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DocScrutinizerfriggin nokia dbus not even supports introspection06:08
DocScrutinizerwell dialer probably closed for "dfferentiation reasons" - seems Nokia is determined to differentiate to the worse side :-P06:10
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njsf_DocScrutinizer: Well that is why I say: open a dbus interface that does not call your UI. they can keep their crap differentiation :)06:12
dmj7261If their ui is closed I don't care *that* much, unless the ui actually includes the system functionality, then it's a problem.06:12
DocScrutinizer"we promise you get world leading crap for dialer, with your Maemo phone"06:12
njsf_and then they have something like Palm OS 5 *still does* where 3rd party devs emulate the cool dialer du jour06:12
njsf_because they can actually interface with the phone api06:12
njsf_without the UI in the middle06:13
njsf_(at least the dialer, the on-call is also not overridable unfortunatelly)06:13
njsf_oh well enough ranting...06:14
njsf_I actually like the N900, its just though love... You want it to improve06:14
njsf_cya all tomorrow!06:14
njsf_or should I say later today :D06:15
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ptlmy Zephyr HxM is arriving today06:33
ptlfor ecockroach06:33
ptlI mean ecoach06:33
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slackmagicfor some reason my damn fm transmitter isn't working. I'm in the USA and also bought it here. Firmware is updated to the latest US Version. I can't seem to get the fm transmitter to work. Anyway, I can test or check to see if it's even transmitting? everything appears to be working, it's just I don't get anything on ANY RADIO06:35
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ptlslackmagic: you are the guy from the mailing lists?06:36
ptlhave you ever tried the simple fm widget?06:36
slackmagicptl: don't think so, haven't signed up yet for a mailing list06:36
slackmagicptl: yep, tried that, tried pretty much everything that's available for fm transmitting - to no avail06:37
ptlwell, then you're not the only one with that problem06:37
slackmagicptl: you're also having problems with yours?06:37
ptltwo guys on the mailing list, I think06:38
DocScrutinizerslackmagic: you need a) a radio with whip antenna, *NO* antenna cable to some roof antenna,  and b) enable FM-TX in media player forex, then turn the dial on your radio to spot the N900, while the N900 not more than 1m away from antenna whip06:38
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slackmagicDocScrutinizer: yep, I tried that. As a matter of fact tried it today with a friend's car. I knew he uses a small fm transmitter to transmit his music - used same frequency, not working there either.06:41
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DocScrutinizer(used same freq) that's not the way it works, though. Your freq reading well may be off quite a bit from the one on other TX devices as well as the one on the radio06:43
DocScrutinizeryou should scan at least +/- 1MHz06:43
DocScrutinizerI suggest you use a mobile radio for first tests, and place the N900 a few cm away from telescope antenna06:45
DocScrutinizerN900 TX is *extremely* weak. Max 2 meters or somesuch, under *optimum* conditions06:46
DocScrutinizerother TX devices may be 100 times more power and 10 times the max distance between antenna and device06:48
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slackmagicDocScrutinizer: have a creative zen here in front of me with my n900, doing +/- 1Mhz and it's not picking up any signal from n900, they're sitting right next to each or on top of each other06:48
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DocScrutinizerthen you got a real problem06:49
slackmagicDocScrutinizer: yep, that's what I thought too06:49
slackmagicDocScrutinizer: might have to call up nokia and perhaps see if I get it replaced, damn hassle..06:49
DocScrutinizeryeah :-/06:50
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DocScrutinizerat least if you actually used mediaplayer to playback some music, then selected FM-TX from mediaplayer's menu, enabled it, and speakers actually went mute06:53
DocScrutinizerand you had no wired headset pugged during this exercise06:54
slackmagicDocScrutinizer: yep, speakers went mute, no cables/no charging, no cords whatsoever, no errors displayed on screen, all looks as if it's transmitting, ANY radio i throw at it, nothing..plain nothing06:55
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loftwhell i finnaly dropped my n900 the other day... and it bounces nicely  though took 20m to get the battery out from under a rack06:57
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DocScrutinizerslackmagic: get replacement06:59
slackmagicDocScrutinizer: I will, thanks for the time listening to my rant though :D06:59
DocScrutinizeryw :-)07:00
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slonopotamusdoes apt-get update from extras-devel work for anyone?07:41
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pupnik_sure would beat waiting  thru ham07:49
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Openfreeslonopotamus, seems that.. server is down07:57
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slonopotamusStskeeps: morning08:03
* Stskeeps sighs over the meego on n900 thread08:06
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Stskeepsmorn tekojo08:08
tekojoMorning Stskeeps!08:08
TigerTaelMorning guys.08:08
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Stskeepson the other hand, stuff like people spreading 'nokia n900 not upgradeable to meego' makes me happy i'm not in marketing08:20
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TigerTaelYou can write to the NAND... how can it not be upgradeable?08:25
Stskeepsupgrade-able obviously means live upgrade, like the SSU's :P08:25
TigerTaelStskeeps, that's what I'm thinking...08:25
TigerTaelWhich I don't actually care about.08:25
TigerTaelI use to flash my android phone twice or more times a week.08:26
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TigerTaelI personally believe that Nokia will introduce a Meego version for the N900.08:27
Timpa88repo is down?08:27
tekojoTimpa88 something strange on stage08:28
Timpa88when will it be up again?08:28
tekojoNeed to bug someone with a login08:29
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StskeepsTigerTael: well, there's going to be a meego arm reference impl for sure for n90008:30
TigerTaelI would like it if Nokia makes the effort to make a consumer grade meego distro for the N900... ;/08:30
Timpa88tekojo: espejo repo seems working =)08:31
tekojoalso is ok08:31
tekojoit's just stage08:31
StskeepsTigerTael: a meego by a vendor is just a meego base system plus hardware stuff plus differentiation08:32's repo doesnt work for me at all, get time out08:32
TigerTaelStskeeps, yes please.08:32
StskeepsTigerTael: first two is easy, third is too early to think about08:32
TigerTaelWell, if Maemo 5 was more complete, I'd be more than happy.08:33
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tekojoTimpa and you are using
Stskeepsthere's still maemo5 life08:33
Timpa88tekojo: only freemoe now, because for apt-get is down.08:34
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StskeepsTigerTael: what error do you get?08:34
Timpa88Stskeeps: timeout08:34
Stskeepsi'm starting to see the smart side of having meego as reference implementation, with everyone and their dog cutting backwards compatibility:
Timpa88Stskeeps: "Waiting for headers"08:34
StskeepsTimpa88: what does resolve to?08:34
Timpa88then timeout....08:34
Stskeepstekojo: repo is being slow for me too and people in turku08:35
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tekojoTimpa88 not here, slow because stage is taking a break for some reason, but it does answer08:35
StskeepsAn error occurred while processing your request.08:35
StskeepsReference #97.5dee9c3e.1268721332.145c0e4608:35
Timpa88Stskeeps: got same problem08:35
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Timpa88Stskeeps: u know why?08:38
StskeepsTimpa88: i think it's being investigated now and right people poked :)08:38
tekojoTimpa88 stage seems to be down, so repository should give you a 20 second extra wait when trying to poll stage for files08:39
tekojobut it should not give an error (don't get one myself)08:39
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Timpa88tekojo: what ip do u get when pinging
tekojoit should all be cached08:39
Stskeepstekojo: i'm getting an error at least on /pool/fremantle/08:39
tekojoping does not work on those machines08:39
Timpa88I've got error too on /pool/fremantle.08:39
Timpa88ping works :P08:40
Timpa88apt-get install ping08:40
StskeepsTimpa88: disabled in firewall probably :P08:40
tekojothat's not ping08:40
tekojothat's apt-get08:40
Timpa88Stskeeps: hehe =)08:40
tekojoAnyway I get a 20 second wait and an ok08:40
Timpa88504 Gateway Time-out [IP: 80]08:41
Stskeepsi get a 20 second wait and an error occoured while processing (...etc) :P08:41
* Stskeeps goes get his morning coffe. sunny day outside today08:41
tekojowaiting for a response from the isp on reason for stage being down08:41
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Stskeepswow, GA's running09:20
Stskeepshell must be freezing over09:20
Timpa88GA ?09:20
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timeless_mbpwhat options do you have in the browser's option page10:11
timeless_mbpthe one that lets you default to full screen10:11
Arkenoifucking thumbnailerd10:12
Arkenoiwould'n it be reasonable to renice it by default and give it lowest io priority?10:12
Arkenoias well as all other background shit10:12
Arkenoiand move to BFS finally10:12
lcuktimeless, not best person to ask, which version do you mean10:13
Passelidoes N900 have Ovi Maps dev apis ?10:13
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timeless_mbplcuk: n900 1.1.1?10:14
lcuklemme see what ive got flashed10:15
timeless_mbpPasseli: what in the world are those?10:15
Arkenoitimeless, brain fuck scheduler. the scheduler designed NOT for servers so it behaves much better for interactive applications10:15
lcuknot at present timeless10:15
* lcuk searches for a 1.1.1 image10:16
Arkenoi"background" applications are great PITA on the n900 because they are not really background, they consume cpu and io affecting UI usability too much10:17
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Passelitimeless_mbp: using Ovi maps but implementing your own custom funtionality to it, does it have any apis to add your own stuff to it10:17
lcukArkenoi, the thumbnailerd shouldnt be running all the time to really get in the way10:18
lcukwhats it scanning10:18
lcukPasseli, is there dev apis for any platform?10:18
Passelilcuk: you mean for Ovi maps? Don't know, that's why i am askin :)10:18
Arkenoilcuk: well, i made some photos. then i decided to make more and fucking thumbnailerd woke up - "wow, we have new pictures, let's index them!" making further actions almost impossible10:19
lcukPasseli, by your question it sounded like other platforms had dev apis too10:19
Arkenoiit is plain stupid behavior10:19
lcukArkenoi, "made pictures"10:20
lcukyou took photos with cam or generated 2000 20mpixel renders?10:20
lcuk(im not trying to trick oyu, im just trying to see why its noticable for you when normally its quite well behaved10:21
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Arkenoiwith cam10:21
Arkenoidon't know why it went nuts suddenly10:21
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timeless_mbpPasseli: the way you asked the question is odd10:21
lcukso its normally ok for you and just now it went bananas10:22
timeless_mbpit implied their existence10:22
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TigerTaelBrain fuck scheduler is not very great in real practice.10:22
Arkenoibtw it is plain stupid to index ALL images on the mass storage including application data10:22
timeless_mbpArkenoi: at some point in time did you use the usb port?10:22
lcukArkenoi, sure for you who knows - i think you can set your tracker configuration to be very specific10:22
Arkenoithumbnail view is overloaded with buttons from qtirreco and others10:23
Arkenoitimeless, nope, i rarely use it10:23
timeless_mbpArkenoi: out of the box, it shouldn't rescan the entire volume unless you cause the volume to be remounted, afaiu10:23
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timeless_mbpif you've installed lots of third party software that might be interfering, then well, don't blame it10:24
Passelitimeless_mbp: well that was not my purpose, i am just trying to find if it possible to embed ovi maps functionality to my own app10:24
Arkenoitimeless: i found UI became unresponsive, ssh'ed to the phone to see what happened and noticed that thumbnailerd does both heavy io and cpu load10:24
timeless_mbpPasseli: well, i think the simplest answer is 'no'10:25
timeless_mbpthe more technical answer is 'well, it's all just javascript and they had maplets, so you could be evil'10:25
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Passelitimeless_mbp: hmm, so i should just look where those stuff is installed in n900 and hack away ?10:26
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Passelioh, i mean "be evil"10:27
timeless_mbpwell, if you choose to do so10:27
timeless_mbpmake backups of course10:27
timeless_mbpand don't expect any stability between versions10:27
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jaemhello everyone10:38
Stskeepsmorn jaem10:39
lcuktimeless, does mxr just scan the source folder of the repositories10:41
lcukor can it be made to scan from generic giturls10:41
lcuk(and hence be able to setup an installation for internal components10:41
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jaemStskeeps, hi.  I'm just about to try out the Diablo Community SSU :)10:42
jaemmy N810 is happy10:42
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Stskeepslet me know how it works10:42
jaemshe's been feeling shunned since my shiny N900 showed up10:42
lcukjaem, the size difference is amazing isnt it10:42
jaemthat is, if the ISP isn't being more incompetent than usual10:42
jaemapart from general problems, the Residence ISP has a link to the campus network at my uni, but it goes down periodically, and for some reason, they have the routes set up statically, so all the uni sites are inaccessible10:43
jaemso, big to-do over that stupid CNET article, eh?  *shakes head*10:44
jaemlcuk, to be honest, the N900 kind of makes the N810 look like a toy10:44
jaembut I remember how I felt when I first got the N81010:44
jaemand it is still shiny10:44
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timeless_mbplcuk: we have an internal mxr for fremantle10:48
timeless_mbpthere's a file which is responsible for updating typical source repos10:49
timeless_mbpit isn't used for the fremantle/fremantle-sdk indices, but is used in general10:49
lcukcan you point me to it, it makes finding things easier10:49
timeless_mbplcuk: you have vpn?10:50
lcukfor a lot of the desktop stuff the public one is ok10:50
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timeless_mbpnote that the fremantle/fremantle-sdk's index based on .deb's10:51
lcukare you planning on (or is it already viable for) doing the same with obs rpms?/10:51
timeless_mbpalready done for moblin2.110:52
timeless_mbpi need to find the person who owns dns and get's CNAME configured10:52
timeless_mbpwe agreed at the last meego meeting10:52
jaemStskeeps, SSU installed flawlessly on a (nearly) new flash of the last Diablo release10:53
lcuk:) @ community ssu10:54
jaemdo you know what lma & co have planned for it, aside from pushing various patches that already exist?10:54
jaemI presume it's primarily for maintenance releases?10:54
jaemlcuk, :)10:54
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Stskeepsjaem: this is first test to see if things work10:57
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jaemStskeeps, it seems to10:57
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* jaem yawns11:03
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ShapeshifterIt's cute when people accidentally call extras-devel "extras-devil"11:10
Stskeepswe should call it that to warn people11:11
lcukShapeshifter, its also cure when people call the OS freemantle11:11
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lcukcutest is seeing how riled GeneralAntilles gets about it ;)11:12
timeless_mbpanyone here have 1.1.1?11:12
timeless_mbpooh, extras-devil? where can i get that?11:12
Shapeshiftertimeless_mbp: in hell.11:12
thresh1.1.1 as in PR1.1.1, yes11:12
timeless_mbptigert: i think that's 1.1.011:13
JaffaMorning, all11:13
TigerTaeltimeless, oh?11:13
timeless_mbpthresh: can you open browser and open the browser options section11:13
timeless_mbpthe one that lets you control if it opens in full screen by default11:13
timeless_mbpTigerTael: or not11:14
timeless_mbpmy memory of versions is bad :)11:14
TigerTaeltimeless, I'm not sure to be honest, that's what I'm using and I thought it was the latest.11:14
timeless_mbpTigerTael: it's quite possible it is… there's probably a wiki somewhere :)11:14
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timeless_mbpactually, i think it is11:14
* timeless_mbp doesn't like numbers11:15
TigerTaelI think it is 1.1.111:15
TigerTaelBecause I've seen that browser option to open fullscreen or not.11:15
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timeless_mbpanyway…. i need to know what the other options are11:15
timeless_mbpstart w/ the last option11:15
timeless_mbp(i probably only need that one)11:16
lcukmorning jaffa, lardman11:16
lardmanhmm, have we had an image update?11:16
lardmanmorning lcuk, Jaffa11:16
TigerTaeltimeless_mbp, autofocus address field.11:16
lcukn810 community ssu is being tested lardman11:16
timeless_mbpok, before that?11:16
TigerTael> Open initially in full screen.11:16
lcuklast public for fremantle is 1.1.111:16
TigerTael> Allow Javascript pausing - in 30 seconds.11:17
lardmanlcuk: cool, thanks11:17
timeless_mbpthat's enough, thanks11:17
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* lcuk likes the look of all the fixes we have for pr1.211:17
Stskeeps"pr1.2 shows as intro video the ovi maps coders being tortured for their sins against navigation"11:18
lcuklol Stskeeps11:18
Stskeepsafter having an argument an early morning in the middle of fucking nowhere with my wife over what ovi maps was showing us, i wouldn't mind seeing that in changelog11:18
lcukthis has a list of the currently marked public fixes tagged pr1.2 :)
TigerTaelStskeeps, oh?11:19
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timeless_mbpStskeeps: your wife didn't learn not to trust it?11:19
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: we didn't trust it, but when we needed some info, it was important to get the info11:20
Stskeepsfrom now on i use maep11:21
timeless_mbpwise decision11:21
lcuktake photos of paper maps around you11:21
MiXu-Stskeeps: Lol. I've had similar arguments with my wife :D11:21
lcukas a backup plan11:21
TigerTaelStskeeps, what was the problem?11:21
MiXu-Something is badly wrong if navigation software causes fights.11:21
lcukstrange MiXu- ive had similar arguments with your wife too11:21
MiXu-lcuk: I don't really have a wife.11:21
timeless_mbpMiXu-: you have an imaginary one?11:22
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MiXu-The best kind11:22
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X-Fadeachipa: depends on what you want where ;)11:23
achipapython2.5-qt4 from testing to extras proper11:24
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X-Fadeachipa: Well, making progress with the maintainer part. But that is really only for non-user section things.11:25
achipaX-Fade: okay, just want to make sure we (I :)) don't oops our dependencies again11:26
X-Fadeachipa: Yeah, let's wait for it to be imported so we can see.11:27
achipaX-Fade: ok11:27
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X-Fadeachipa: It should pull in all strict dependencies.11:27
X-Fadeachipa: Looking at the logs, things like python2.5-qt4-gl got promoted too.11:29
achipaX-Fade: in that case it should all be well (all non-system ones are strict)11:29
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X-Fadeachipa: It looks like it pulled those in yes.11:30
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hrw~curse shell icon11:37
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, shell icon !11:37
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heoabought 2nd-hand n810, can you charge it only with 2mm socket?11:41
Elvaron_n900hmm, anyone tried writing a program for online banking? didnt see one so far. due to security risks?11:41
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Appiahwhat security risks?11:41
Appiahwhat kind of online banking program do you need? O_o11:41
hrwElvaron_n900: I have accounts in 3 banks - each use different stuff11:41
Elvaron_n900no idea, just seemed weird theres none :)11:42
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Shrik3what kind of program for banking?11:42
Appiahwell my bank dont require any software...11:42
achipaX-Fade: yay  !11:42
heoaIs that 2mm socker or 1mm socket to charge n810:
X-Fadeachipa: No red there ;)11:42
AppiahSo I dont see what type of software you would need to do your banking11:43
Elvaron_n900its not "required" it might simply be more convenient than throuth the browser11:43
Appiahyou want a own written interface for specific banks? :)11:43
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Elvaron_n900at least some of them should have common interface? i think they had such a tool on the apple zombiephone11:44
Appiahwhich banks?11:44
Appiahin what country?11:44
hrwheoa: 1mm11:44
burchrGeneralAntilles: hehe.11:45
burchrGeneralAntilles: I just wanted to put that $0.02 forward.11:45
hrwheoa: all tablets used 1mm, n900 uses microusb11:45
AppiahHere I've seen maybe 5 banks that you can access online , none of them have anything common when it comes to their websites11:45
heoahrw: what is the 2mm socket for then?11:45
Elvaron_n900germany in my case, but it was a general question abouth why there isnt one. not necessary suffices :)11:45
Shrik3Elvaron_n900: not many banks have open interfaces for consumers11:45
Appiahwell tghe reason why there is none is that there is no common api/interface for banks11:46
Shrik3you can get a standard-ish interface if you're a company, but that costs €€€11:46
alturiakgerman banks mostly use HBCI11:46
Shrik3so basically you'd have to use screen scraping11:46
Appiahall I seen so far that some banks have common here in sweden is a way to auth11:46
Shrik3and get around the authentication somehow11:46
hrwheoa: moment11:46
Appiahbut thats the auth only11:46
Elvaron_n900yea i thought there was something, didnt remember the acro is hbci11:46
alturiakwhich seems to be used in germany only, though. but at least it's common (t)here - and pretty secure11:46
Veggenfor personal banking, there's not any standardised interfaces, but there are some semi-standardised interfaces for transfer of bulk paiments, etc, for the corporate banking world.11:46
Veggenprobably on national level only standardisation, though.11:47
hrwheoa: n810 has power and headphones (3.5mm) connectors on right side11:47
Shrik3and an usb port11:48
Shrik3it's some funky hybrid port11:48
heoahrw: I see power plugs have an interier metal11:48
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heoahrw: thank you.11:48
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hrwShrik3: n810 has normal microusb not hybrid11:49
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Shrik3nope, not a normal one, but a Micro-AB11:50
Shrik3it swings both ways11:50
Shrik3micro-B is the one on current nokia phones11:51
Shrik3but the N810 can act as a usb host device and accepts micro-a plugs too11:51
hrwShrik3: microAB is also normal microusb - standard defines microA/microB/microAB11:52
Shrik3well, yes11:52
Shrik3but micro-b is the one people refer to in most cases when talking about "micro usb"11:53
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* timeless_mbp grumbles about namespace collisions11:55
* ptl grumbles about PR 1.2 not being out yet11:56
Shapeshiftermh. dbus-send --print-reply --dest='' /com/nokia/profiled string:general gives me "Failed to open connection to "session" message bus: (null)11:56
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Shapeshiftermhh nevermind11:57
Shapeshiftershould run as user not as root.11:57
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Shapeshiftergah why does this not work -.- crap profile switching business12:00
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* Shapeshifter found the problem12:04
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Shapeshifterham is such a piece of junk12:22
Shapeshifter"no applications installed"12:22
Shapeshifterwell done, ham.12:22
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Shapeshifter"no catalogues in use". It's so damn easy to confuse it.12:24
Elvaron_n900damn, why is it so hard to find a m.u.d.s. download for use with dosbox...?12:29
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ptlwhat's a muds?12:43
ptlMulti-User Dungoen?12:43
TigerTaelI love(d) MUD's.12:44
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pupnik_ muds were crack in 198912:45
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AppiahGo around playing muds on my N90012:47
Appiahawesome idea12:47
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SpeedEvilThere is a mud client in extras12:47
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Elvaron_n900i was actually talking about m.u.d.s. ...12:47
SpeedEvilCoincidentally, I'm playing in mud today.12:48
Elvaron_n900mean ugly dirty sport12:48
Appiahwth is that12:48
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silfermeok guys, maybe im a complete idiot but maybe someome can help me... im using ultravnc to have connetion between vista and maemo and it works fine at home in local wireless but how the hell do i connect to it from outside?12:48
Appiahport forwarding12:48
SpeedEvilport forwarding.12:49
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Appiahcheck your router/firewall12:49
SpeedEvilAlso dyndns - to point to your 'real' home address12:49
Elvaron_n900appiah: an awesome dos game12:49
SpeedEvilPicking a good password is probably a good idea12:49
SpeedEvilI suggest 'PassworD'12:49
silfermeport forwarding it is then, need to go home and fix the router12:50
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AppiahI need scummvm on my device12:50
arachnistit is in repos12:50
SpeedEvilinstall it then.12:51
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Appiahhavent thought much of gaming..12:51
SpeedEvilAlso - 'blocks' - surprisingly addictive.12:51
silfermeis any of you running kismet or similar?12:52
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pupnik_770 silferme12:53
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JaffaHave I missed anyone?
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pupnik_are we nearing deadline Jaffa ?12:55
Jaffapupnik_: Tomorrow:
* Appiah reads up12:56
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rmrfchikpick me12:58
Stskeepsrun for council12:58
Appiahpick rmrfchik , he wrote pick me.12:58
* rmrfchik is da best council12:59
pupnik_i like the candidates12:59
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pupnik_Stskeeps: did you see the repo down last night?13:03
Stskeepsrepo maemo? yes, we spokea bout it this morning13:03
Stskeepsi'm not in charge of repos though13:03
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GAN900Jaffa, what sort order is that? :P13:05
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Elvaronhas anyone tried out nitroid on n900? my brother is thinking about getting an n900, too, and he wants to know if it runs etc. but i don't want to dig so deep just to tell him "yes, works", since i see no need for that on my phone13:16
Stskeepsdefine 'works'13:16
Stskeepsand why you'd want it13:16
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Elvaronme: i dont. my brother: no idea. works: well, theres different states of "working", give me a description of how well it works and i'll pass it on13:16
Elvaroni dont see why there would be any android app that couldnt be written for maemo natively, so i see no need to have a second OS on my phone13:17
issi think it is more like a proof of concept still13:17
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Elvaroni think that sums it up enough13:18
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JaffaGAN900: Now alphabetical13:19
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KhertanHi everybody !13:21
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jonasHi all. On my N900 I connect to a wlan, then im-plugin tries to connect and fails. then i log in at the web capture portal thing. then how do i reconnect my accounts?13:22
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: heh, update :-)13:22
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lcukhi Khertan mgedmin13:23
mgedminwe're actually two unrelated people, you know13:23
mgedminI'm not his last name13:23
Khertanhello lcuk13:23
jonas(clearly I'm "on the internet", since I'm here...)13:24
lcukactually i was using mgedmin as a curse word towards Khertan :p13:24
pupnikCPU: 45.2% (pulseaudio + panucci @ 250mhz)13:25
pupnikthat is an embarassment13:25
Jaffa <-- should probably go in the topic13:25
Khertanlcuk: héhé13:25
Khertanpupnik: as it s running at 250mhz i didn't see problems13:26
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pupnikstuttering playback on opening a webpage.  6 times greater cpu use than necessary.13:27
pupnikstuttering on every application window switch13:27
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Shrik3"please do not take this yet as a commitment to fully productise MeeGo on N900"13:30
KhertanJaffa: hum ... just say "no but maybe yes" and "yes but maybe no"13:30
lcukJaffa, the spread of candidates for the council looks good13:30
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Elvaronhmm i need a widget to change my keyboard layout, did i miss something or is there none yet?13:32
TomaszDgood day13:32
Jaffalcuk: It does13:33
Jaffalcuk: Still time for you to change your mind ;-)13:33
hrwhi TomaszD13:33
lcuki know :) i wrote up something earlier13:33
lcukbut then i wrote up counter to myself13:33
DocScrutinizerhmm, 18h with WLAN&SIP, GSM -> lshal says 75% bat13:34
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TomaszDyou know what guys? From the limited tests I've performed, fennec trunk does render faster than microb, although scrolling is still slower13:34
wazdmeego panic, again13:34
DocScrutinizerRUN, there's a meego13:34
* lcuk is gonna try something soon13:34
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lcuknot today but a software test13:35
Elvaroni got ignored :(13:36
TigerTaelIs there a way (easy way) to log into an SSH session on my N900 over the USB cable?13:36
TomaszDElvaron, there is something like that already, just look for it13:36
Elvaronthere is?13:36
Elvaroni havent found something like that.13:36
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Elvarontheres a status icon for "current kb layout", but no switch widget13:37
ponyofdeathhi, i have the usa version of the n900 and i am currently in europ ( bulgaria ) when i try to use the phone i dont see any service with my sim card from bulgarian gsm network. do i have to reflash the device with the international version?13:37
DocScrutinizerisn't there ctrl-space?13:37
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Elvaroni know alt+shift from windows to change the layout, but n900 has no alt key and maemo!=windows :)13:38
TomaszDwhy repeat what people say, try it13:38
Elvaroni did, it didnt do anything13:38
TigerTaelYou have to set the other language first?13:38
TomaszDset the other language first, in text input settings13:39
Elvaroni have 1st language german, 2nd language english13:39
Elvaronctrl+space doesnt do anything13:39
pupnikElvaron: you can remap keys but you may need to reinstall system if you mess up13:39
TomaszDthere's this
Elvaronalso, when within an application a notification appears "Changed keyboard layout" but neither does it change, nor does the status icon change13:40
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KhertanStill no date announced for PR1.2 with Qt 4.6 ?13:40
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TomaszDKhertan, no date will be announced13:41
hrwKhertan: 2nd June 2010 - right after children day13:41
pupnikty TomaszD13:41
Khertanthx ... i ask because they said they will announce it before to dev due to some recompilation needed for some apps13:42
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Khertanat least i think i ve understand that13:42
Khertanbut i may be wrong ... due to low english understood13:42
Khertanhrw: what is children day ?13:43
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hrwKhertan: 1st June
Khertanyep ... i ask before looking to wikipedia13:44
Khertanthx :)13:44
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ElvaronTomaszD: thats exactly what i needed, thx. wonder why thats not in the app.manager catalogues o_O13:46
TomaszDno idea13:46
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Elvaronanyhow, thanks^^13:46
RichardPwow, thats a lot more users than I thought there would be13:47
RichardPso, Im thinking of making the switch from the iPhone to the N900 - am i insane or is it worth it?13:48
TomaszDdepends on your needs13:48
Elvaronnow to find out how to make that into a widget... the .c source looks manageable13:48
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TomaszDif you want a phone, stick with the iPhone, if you want a pocketable computer with basic GSM capabilities, go with the n90013:49
LuciusMareHi, why there's no command "file" on fremantle?13:49
Stskeepsinstall it?13:49
Stskeepsnokia marketing is awesome13:49
Stskeeps'meego door is not closed on n900'13:49
LuciusMareoh. I thought it is a basic command13:49
Stskeepsdon't assume anything13:50
TomaszDStskeeps, link?13:50
X-FadeStskeeps: Ovi? :)13:50
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, stupid business idiots.13:50
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, one way or the other, either do it or don't.13:50
GeneralAntillesDon't poison the community with the FUD.13:50
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hrwRichardP: and 'basic GSM' means basic indeed13:52
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* GeneralAntilles doesn't see any real missing features.13:52
issI want to use the OVI calendar web frontend and it should sync with the N900 calendar app, does anybody know when this will become possible?13:53
TomaszDnice way of putting it13:53
noobmonk3yreal issues depend on the users perspective :D13:53
RichardPhrw: Ive read that, but it really seems to be a point people are stressing, why?13:53
noobmonk3yoh and expectations (Valid or invalid at that)13:53
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GeneralAntillesOnly thing I'm kind of missing is per-user ringtones13:53
RichardPhrw: i mainly use my iphone for web browsing and email, either over 3g or wifi13:53
* nidO facepalms13:53
GeneralAntillesbut I was always too lazy to set those up anyway.13:53
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: yeah13:53
* noobmonk3y still has the standard ringtone :)13:53
RichardPhrw: i have some apps, but i rarely use them13:53
nidOmy phone makes phone calls, its all good13:53
GeneralAntillesRichardP, sounds like the N900 might be a good fit13:54
nidOit receives them, too!13:54
TomaszDRichardP, then you'll be blown away by the browser on the n900, and you should go for it13:54
GeneralAntillesAt least for web it's best-in-class.13:54
RichardPhrw: i make a phone call perhaps twice a week13:54
hrwRichardP: you have: voicecalls and sms messaging. you do not have videocalls, mms require 3rdparty tool + configuring by hand13:54
lupine_85eh. microb is ok13:54
GeneralAntillesMail is another issue entirely.13:54
noobmonk3ylol - havn't actually made a phone call on mine in a week...the e71 still has the odd use :D13:54
RichardPsms about 20 times a week13:54
GeneralAntillesIt's functional, but not particularly nice.13:54
lupine_85thankfully, you get to have firefox too :)13:54
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hrwmail? mail app on n900 is disaster13:54
* hrw -> food13:54
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GeneralAntilleslupine_85, MicroB kicks Fennec's ass, quite truthfully.13:54
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lupine_85no, I quite like the mail app13:54
threshmutt ftw13:54
nidOthats not "thankfully", fennec is awful :<13:54
noobmonk3yhave to agree with gen, microb for me is pretty amazing, but then i have never had a decent web phone or touch screen before13:54
lupine_85GeneralAntilles, no, it doesn't. It's bugged to death.13:54
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threshand i miss a working maps application13:55
threshor a decent gps13:55
GeneralAntilleslupine_85, Maemo 4 or Maemo 5? :)13:55
fluemofor me too, firefox is slowwww13:55
TomaszDnidO, check fennect trunk daily build, it's much better13:55
lupine_85microb :)13:55
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GeneralAntilleslupine_85, that's not an answer.13:55
lupine_85firefox takes too long to start up for my liking, but once it's up, it's god13:55
lupine_85microb on maemo 513:55
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fluemoyea, but mostly you need it fast :)13:55
GeneralAntilleslupine_85, then how do you mean "bugged"? :)13:55
fluemoso startup time is kinda important13:55
lupine_85mostly, I need it standards compliant13:55
* noobmonk3y needs to create a maemo bbs lol13:55
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RichardPshould i be concerned with the meego talk ive picked up on in here since i joined? :)  is there a future for the N900 if i bought it now?13:55
noobmonk3yrichard - yes13:56
* GeneralAntilles sighs at that again.13:56
lupine_85RichardP, probably, but possibly not13:56
* GeneralAntilles stabs Ari.13:56
noobmonk3ylupine - yes there will be, but again done that convo to death :)13:56
lupine_85bug #836213:56
povbotBug Some combination of Maemo 5 + Nokia N900 results in improper onChange callbacks in the maemo browser13:56
* noobmonk3y thinks GeneralAntilles has some pent up agression :D13:56
noobmonk3yRichardP:  sorry, yes to the future, not the concern13:56
lupine_85MicroB exposed that particular issue after about 5 minutes of using it13:56
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GeneralAntillesI'm tired of Nokia constantly poisoning and hobbling every positive thing they do.13:57
lupine_85leaves me concerned as to what else it does wrong, only less visibly13:57
X-FadeNobody knows what MeeGo is, why would you want it on a perfectly working N900 :)13:57
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noobmonk3yX-Fade: good point.... but everyone wants the latest stuff - even if only to whinge ;)13:57
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GeneralAntilleslupine_85, it's FIXED.13:57
issFYI, the Meego main webpage has a picture of an N900 on it13:57
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: would you mind to change chan topic to include Stskeeps' tmo post 'love the bomb' ?13:57
lupine_85yes, because I spotted and reported it13:57
X-FadeDon't expect anything wroking from MeeGo for end-users in quite a while.13:57
X-FadeFor developers, yes.13:58
RichardPX-Fade: well, the concern is if Nokia drop maemo and only go meego, then the upgrade route is uncertain.  but then maemo version Y might not be N900 compat either i guess13:58
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lupine_85point is, microb has far less users than fennec. so it gets more stuff wrong.13:58
X-FadeRichardP: That might be a year+.13:58
noobmonk3yRichardP: You need o ask how much input nokia have had recently :) - there is still a largggggge community for the n900 :D13:58
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noobmonk3y(ignoring bug fixing etc :) )13:58
GeneralAntilleslupine_85, yeah, um, that's usually how bugs are fixed.13:58
noobmonk3yi agree with X-Fade gonna be a while, the n900 is still actually being tweaked and looked at13:59
lcukRichardP, there is a dedicated team of developers as well as many many community people watching and helping with the current system13:59
X-FadeRichardP: And we still don't know what MeeGo will consists of.13:59
achipaRichardP: and to add to your confusion, Maemo 6 is also called Meego :)13:59
noobmonk3yomg lcuk is alive13:59
* lcuk is working13:59
GeneralAntilleslcuk, which is being decreased daily.13:59
* noobmonk3y doesn't believe that!13:59
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issMy guess is that Meego will be able to run all existing Maemo software13:59
lcukGeneralAntilles, then pick up an ide and get helping - theres tonnes of code on gitorious13:59
noobmonk3yiss - different beast not sure on that14:00
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lcukill help marry up maemo bugs iwth code bases14:00
noobmonk3ybut all qt stuff maybe14:00
GeneralAntilleslcuk, not my cup of tea. :)14:00
lcukand let you try supply patches14:00
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: GeneralAntilles: I suggest replacing "Can't talk? Register. Getting spammed? /mode YOURNICK +R" by , in chan topic14:00
Stskeepsi'd like to make a bet that meego would probably run on n810 if they made the right choices14:00
* lupine_85 is quite irritated by the presence of internal repositories, actually14:00
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noobmonk3ylol Stskeeps14:00
Stskeepslupine_85: give it time, a devel repository isn't pretty14:00
lcukStskeeps, ill agree with that, but since its a phone it would be as impractical as android etc14:00
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lupine_85yeah, that's fine by me14:01
lcukthe same argument is made for meeg on pentium M for instance14:01
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lcukinstead of silly "requires atom"14:01
* noobmonk3y requires.......... a coffee14:01
issI want to use the OVI calendar web frontend and it should sync with the standard N900 calendar app, does anybody know when this will become possible?14:02
lupine_85I think the N900 is about powerful enough for a 'real' firefox. although I do wish they'd doubled the RAM14:02
lcuknoobmonk3y, grab me one plz14:02
* noobmonk3y thinks the postage of a coffe could be interesting... along with messy....14:02
lcukemail it then14:03
lcukwill arrive hot14:03
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lupine_85just put the cup on the CD tray and close it?14:03
lupine_85presumably, it only works with the foam cups14:03
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wazd"I am not a developer, and don't know linux language."14:04
* wazd facepalms14:05
nidOI had a chuckle at that too14:05
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* noobmonk3y doesnt speak el linuxy..... is it like spanishy?14:05
Lumpio-He only knows Windows language and God's language (English)14:05
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Elvaronmeh i'm lost in the jungle of information, anyone got me a quick link that tells me the ~20 lines of code needed for a c source to get a widget (just a button with a string text on it would suffice) on the desktop?14:05
* noobmonk3y blinkc, c whats that? :D14:06
* noobmonk3y blinks properly this time......14:06
DocScrutinizerElvaron: there's a armel.deb on qwerty12.qule.xyz14:06
Elvaronor i could write it in py, then i could use sleeper's widget code but would have to rewrite keyboard-layout-applet's event14:07
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Elvaroni'm trying to write my first program for maemo here, not just "get a package" :)14:07
Elvaroni should note that the use of the term "program" is misleading in the previous sentence14:08
lupine_85it's just GTK14:08
pupnikdownload source for a program that you want to emulate Elvaron14:08
lupine_85well, GTK + stuff14:08
DocScrutinizerElvaron:  and
Elvaronyou're not listening to what i say, doc14:08
TigerTaelUh, I know I am missing something, but how can I enable SSH connections from cellular data connections?14:09
lupine_85TigerTael, it should all "just work"14:09
Elvaronthank you, ynezz14:09
lupine_85if you're running an ssh server on the mobile, and are trying to get to it, you'll  probably need to tunnel some real IPs14:09
DocScrutinizerElvaron: I'm so busy getting info for you :-P14:09
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TigerTaellupine_85, do you think my SP is block it?14:09
lupine_85it's a possibility14:10
TigerTaelI have a real IP.14:10
Elvaron^^ thx, but i already have that app, now i want to try out and rewrite it as a desktop widget14:10
lupine_85pop an ssh server on port 443 and try ssh to that14:10
TigerTaelOkay, how do I do that?14:10
lupine_85ssh "looks like" https traffic, so that's generally quite good14:10
lupine_85man sshd_config14:10
ynezzElvaron: do you know how to use google?14:10
TigerTaellupine_85, there is no man on the N900. ;]14:11
lupine_85Add "Listen 443" to the file, I guess14:11
Elvaronyes, theres like a bazillion things to read, i just thought someone here would have a good idea on where to start, you know14:11
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* lupine_85 really hopes meego hacks less on layout14:11
Elvaronits like saying "which is a good book for learning chinese?" "do you know what a library is?" :)14:11
ynezzElvaron: yes, start here
Elvaronyes, i will14:12
Elvaroni mean, i am14:12
Elvaronjust need to find my vmware o_O14:12
Elvaronanyhow, thx so far14:12
DocScrutinizerElvaron: it's really like that. Everybody will recommend another book to you14:12
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viszElvaron, mandarin on cantonese?-)14:12
Elvaronprobably, but asking ppl who have more experience at least gives me some sort of filter14:13
DocScrutinizerplease don't complain about *too much* response14:13
Elvaronvisz: cantonese14:13
Elvaroni'm not complaining :)14:13
Elvaroni'm overly happy with what you all gave me14:13
Elvaronnow i need to work on it^^14:13
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TigerTaelwoah, my keyboard input has gone all funky.14:15
viszElvaron, can't go wrong with pimsleur14:16
TigerTaelokay, it went back to normal now... that was very weird.14:17
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ptlcool, picodrive is finally out14:17
ptljust downloaded it14:17
Elvaronpimsleur? well, i think i have enough info at the moment, i'm still at "Downloading VMware player" :)14:17
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b0unc3hey guys, somebody know how to create a custom keyboard shortcut ?14:20
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issDoes anyone know about OVI calendar sync with N900? It's really the only thing that I am missing. Any alternatives you can suggest?14:21
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* rmrfchik is missing google sync14:22
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MiXu-Use SyncEvolution14:23
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MiXu-It works with any service that uses SyncML14:23
DocScrutinizerb0unc3: custom shortcuts seem to me like they're app specific and need support from particular app14:23
DocScrutinizerthere's a few global ones like ctrl-bs14:24
rmrfchik# apt-cache search synce |wc -l14:24
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DocScrutinizerdunno how to add to these14:24
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arachnist"apt-cache search sync" and it returns anki and ankimaemi14:24
MiXu-SyncEvolution can be found from extras-devel at least14:25
arachnisti never really understood debian people and why are they so proud of apt* and dpkg14:25
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issMiXu - thanks, SyncEvolution is a good idea14:25
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mgedminarachnist, afaiu years ago apt worked much better than any alternative, hence the pride14:25
MiXu-It's a bit rough around the edges but does the trick, and has a decent ui.14:26
mgedminI remember switching from redhat/mandrake to debian back in 2001(?) and loving apt14:26
issyou think it works with OVi calendar? or can you suggest a different one? I don't like Google14:26
MiXu-Don't know. Haven't tried.14:26
mgedminalthough debian's biggest strength was always the large set of well-maintained packages rather than the tool14:26
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lcukMyrtti, random: thank you14:27
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rmrfchikhmm.. according to "ps -ef", the most memory hog is... pulseaudio!14:47
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rmrfchikit beats modest, xorg, mafw (wtf?), browser14:47
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X-Fadermrfchik: Doesn't say anything, really.14:49
rmrfchikyeah, sad there is no pmap utility14:49
kamuiso awesome14:50
rmrfchikI believe this is shared memory, but how can I know? ;)14:50
kamuipulseaudio is aweful14:50
rmrfchikVery interesting. There is a topic in pulseaudio maillist. "[pulseaudio-discuss] Hard-coded allocation of 64 MB of memory upfront too big in some scenarios14:51
rmrfchikSeems like they sbrk 64Mb just for case14:51
ptl64 MB?14:53
ptlpulseaudio reserves 1/4 of the RAM of the device?14:53
SpeedEvilrmrfchik: look for smap14:53
GeneralAntillesrmrfchik, top?14:53
rmrfchikrss 1031614:53
rmrfchikand vsz 8314414:54
* noobmonk3y returneth14:54
rmrfchik83MB!! facepalm14:54
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SpeedEviltop sycks14:54
noobmonk3ylot of facepalming going on today!14:54
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mgedminvsz is irrelevant in most cases14:55
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issmy pulseaudio uses 2.15%14:55
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kamuirandom thought, has anyone tried running E16 or e17 in easydebian?14:55
SpeedEvilsee that14:56
kamuiand fyi, whoever created the queen bee widgets is a genius14:56
kamuiI love them14:56
viszoh, is e17 usable?14:56
kamuino visz14:56
kamuinot really :)14:56
kamuiI think it looks cool though14:56
viszi stopped waiting for it in 1998 or so =)14:56
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SpeedEvilpython app that checks shared memory14:57
kamuiI haven't tried it since 2004ish14:57
shahinanyone know when the new meego os for netbooks will be released?14:57
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GeneralAntillesshahin, try #meego.14:57
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kamuishahin: I hope sometime after the N900 branch is available14:57
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rmrfchikshahin: if it will looks and feels like moblin it will sucks14:58
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rmrfchikshiny leeenux for grandpa14:58
shahinrmrfchik: ehm, why? i loved moblin :)14:58
threshrmrfchik it too oldschool for that.14:59
rmrfchikit can't do anything. 3 applications, compiz (read WOW!!)14:59
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shahinrmrfchik: i can't youse more than 3 applications at the same time?15:00
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SpeedEvilrmrfchik:   PID User     Command                         Swap      USS      PSS      RSS15:00
SpeedEvil5658 pulse    /usr/bin/pulseaudio --syste      424     3476     3564     488815:00
SpeedEvilthat's playing audio15:00
rmrfchikshahin: $ xlsclients|wc -l15:00
SpeedEvilpss is how much actual device RAM it's using15:00
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shahinrmrfchik: what?15:01
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mgedminhow is it calculated?15:02
* noobmonk3y blinks... did someone ask the meego/mobilny n900 / maemo when question again? :D15:02
tybollt\\o 2.115:02
tybolltehr 1.2 :)15:03
pupnikjust play an mp3 and look at cpumem applet, then keep playing mp3 and look at battery15:04
TigerTaelUh, is it normal for my phone not to connect to cellular data even though it's set to automatically connect? I mean, there is nothing on the phone actually trying to use it, but, if there's no cell-data connection, Nokia Messaging doesn't check for new mail...15:04
TigerTaelCatch 22?15:04
pupniki connect manually15:05
TigerTaelJust wondering.15:06
timeless_mbpTigerTael: i had a problem like that15:07
TigerTaelIt happens after first booting...15:07
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TigerTaelDoesn't bother to connect to cell-data because there's nothing that wants to use it and Nokia Messaging takes a passive role.15:07
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lupine_85presumably it'll open a cellular connection when the messaging application tries to open a socket?15:09
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TigerTaelWhich it never does...15:09
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lupine_85odd. why not? do you not have it set up to check every n minutes?15:09
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TigerTaellupine_85, yeah.15:09
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* lupine_85 has sip and xmpp and smtp accounts and they all get connectivity when they ask for it15:10
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TigerTaelLet me do a more thorough test.15:11
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Elvaronhmm i dont seem to find a good example of code where the default widget box (96x96 pixels, beveled edge/dark-grey gradient style) is being drawn15:16
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* Khertan just discover paste2.org15:34
* noobmonk3y blinks15:34
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* TigerTael waits for the 15 minute interval to come up to check mail automatically.15:47
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TigerTaelStill hasn't kicked in yet.15:49
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crashanddiewhat hasn't kicked in yet?15:52
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noobmonk3ywho's kicking who? :D15:53
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TigerTaelWell, I have my cell-data set to automatically connect, but after a reboot, it doesn't bother to reconnect and Nokia Messaging is not initiating that connection either.15:53
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TigerTaelSo my phone is just sitting by itself, not checking mail like it's supposed to. ;/15:53
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noobmonk3yhmmm my data connectiongs seem to have gone haywire after installing DCE recently tis a pain15:54
TigerTaelSeems that Nokia Messaging is taking a passive role.15:54
noobmonk3yremoved it and it was fine for a day then reset and didnt auto connect to anything15:54
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lupine_85wonder when they'll release PR1.215:55
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noobmonk3yat some point.........15:55
TigerTaelI haven't read about this in any bugtracking...15:55
Khertancreate a report so15:56
TigerTaelAnd I think it'll be kinda annoying.15:56
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noobmonk3ymeh meh meh15:56
Khertanit s difficult to fix unknow bugs for developpers15:56
* noobmonk3y eats bugs for breakfast.......15:56
TigerTaelKhertan, understood, but I'm just wondering if it's me... or is this expected behaviour.15:56
crashanddienoobmonk3y: I take it you live in a trailerpark in east-USA?15:57
* Khertan is currently studying a rumours ear at his office hotline ... and spent 4 hours this morning what is the bug15:57
noobmonk3y;) close enough :D15:57
crashanddierumours ear?15:57
crashanddiea rumour's ear?15:57
noobmonk3ythe ear of a rumour......... wow they have body parts?15:57
noobmonk3yor the ear of rumour's even15:57
crashanddiethe ear of a rumour seven?15:57
noobmonk3yriddle me this riddle me that...... khertan is high again ;)15:58
crashanddienha, hee iz french and hee lovz to baffeul us wiz the poweur of his metafores!15:59
* noobmonk3y pats khertan on hiz head16:00
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TigerTaelYeah, still no mail check.16:00
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TigerTaelThe way the settings are described, it sounds as if nokia messaging will only check if there's a connection present and will not try and initiate a connection...16:01
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TigerTaelAnd auto-connection only works if there's a connection attempt.16:01
mneHi, is anyone familiar with the internals of the alsa-dsp IO plugin ?16:01
tybollthe's french16:01
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ShadowJKnokia messaging might be pushmail...16:01
tybollthe's totally on a cheese high16:01
tybolltdon't ruin his buzz ;)16:01
ShadowJKhm, I think auto connect works for me even if there's no connection attempt that maemo knows of16:01
ShadowJKfor example if I'm at home on wlan, and then drive to work, phone loses wifi connection and automatically connects to cellular16:02
mneI don't think that the incrementing of the hardware pointer in implemented correctly in the maemon alsa IO plugin16:02
KhertanHé ho ... yes i'm french ... :)16:02
ShadowJKmne, is this on N8x0?16:02
crashanddietybollt: no cheese jokes16:02
Khertani forgot the h16:03
crashanddietybollt: I've been in france for just under 48 hours now, and I've had more and better cheese than 6 months in the UK/US/Australia16:03
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tybolltcrashanddie: :D16:03
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mneShadowJK, I have no idea. It just says "Alsa External plugin". project site is here:
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ShadowJKI guess that's on N800 and N810 then16:04
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mne"This plugin converts the ALSA API over PCM task nodes protocol. In this way, ALSA native applications can run over DSP Gateway and use DSP PCM task nodes. "16:05
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TigerTaelShadowJK, in my case, it's a cold start... no connections were forced or made...16:05
TigerTaelAnd then Nokia Messaging just sits and does nothing because there's no connection.16:06
TigerTaelAnd Maemo doesn't connect because nothing wants to connect.16:06
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GAN900Comcast's daily connection kill16:10
GAN900Gotta love it.16:10
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n900Marcohello everybody16:11
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tybollthello dr nick!16:11
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Khertanhihi :)16:14
KhertanHey I'm dr Nick !16:15
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* RST38h moos16:17
* thresh waves back16:18
arachnistGAN900: the biggest isp in poland also does that16:18
hrwdo what?16:18
RST38hthresh: how are things? going to the FRUCT?16:18
arachnist151025 |        GAN900 | Comcast's daily connection kill16:18
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hrwwhich means?16:19
* RST38h suspects that the isp in poland does many more funny things as well =)16:19
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GAN900hrw, Comcast kills you internet connection at least once a day for 5-30 minutes16:19
hrwRST38h: we have many isps here16:19
GAN900usually more often than that16:19
arachnisthrw: which means you get disconnected. it often changes your ip16:20
hrwGAN900: ouch.16:20
hrwI am using UPC now - never had such problem16:20
arachnisthrw: (mówię o neozdradowych zrywach połączeń)16:20
GAN900They also shape traffic and physically abuse their customers.16:20
threshRST38h: i'm alrite. I'm not sure I will attend it.16:20
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threshI doubt my employer will send me there ;-)16:20
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RST38hthresh: isn't it on saturday?16:21
thresh23-25 march, it says16:21
GAN900They added a new service fee so if Comcast screws up your connection somehow they chargem you $30 to come out and fix it unless you have the $2.99/mo insurance16:21
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threshi'd love to listen to ab speech, but meh16:21
GAN900Considering that the Comcast techs manage to disconnect me at least once every two months. . . .16:22
RST38hthresh: shit, not good...16:22
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threshah the conference is on 25 march16:23
threshbut still it's thursday16:23
RST38hthresh: On the other hand, I guess it can be considered work related for me16:23
hrwarachnist: I have a luck to never had to use DSL or analog modems16:23
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VDVsxRST38h, interesting stuff at FRUCT ? :)16:24
RST38hVDVsx: Interesting people16:24
threshRST38h: not really related for me, though we do work with cellulars16:24
RST38hVDVsx: A few interesting technical topics16:24
threshand the only interesting lecture would be Sasha's one, and probably New trends in Maemo security16:25
arachnisthrw: well, never did i, but many of my friends did16:25
VDVsxRST38h, is there a English schedule somewhere ?16:25
thresheverything else, well no :-)16:25
RST38hVDVsx: A moment16:25
VDVsxgot one in Russian (I think) in the other day16:25
RST38hAnyone who needs ZAGG discounts, let me know16:26
TigerTaelOkay, I posted the bug.16:26
RST38hVDVsx: Ok, I do not see the English one, but can translate quickly16:26
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RST38hMaemo Business Opportunities (guy from Forum Nokia EMEA)16:27
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RST38hMaemo Architecture and Mobile Multimedia Processing (abbra)16:27
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RST38hObject Oriented Approach to Mobile System Programming (Vitaly Repin, the guy responsible for Exchange stuff in Maemo)16:28
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RST38hMaemo Browser: Internet in Your Hands (Leonid Zolotarev, head of Browsing and Places apps)16:29
RST38hNew Trends in Maemo Security16:29
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RST38hUsing DBus in Maemo16:30
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hrwRST38h: where?16:30
RST38hRussian Maemo Community (some guy heading whom NONE of us knows)16:30
RST38hhrw: Moscow, 25th March16:30
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hrwthx16:31 and presentations by respective site owners16:31
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RST38hMaemo5: View from outside (iXBT guy)16:31
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RST38hA few talks on Maemo labs in Russian universities16:31
RST38hQt in Mobile Devices (guy heading FRUCT lab at some StPeterburg school)16:32
tybolltFRUCT? :) :)16:33
RST38hImplementation of Energy Aware Queue Management Algorithm (some FRUCT guy from SpB)16:33
RST38hOpenCV Performance in Maemo (FRUCT guy from Nizhnij Novgorod)16:33
RST38hECG Measuring App on Maemo (another FRUCT guy)16:34
RST38hthis is pretty much it, I skipped a few because they sounded irrelevant16:34
hrwnice subjects16:34
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noobmonk3ytybollt: finland russia universities something or other16:37
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tybolltnoobmonk3y:, swedish, keyword: "frukt" :):)16:38
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VDVsxRST38h, thanks :)16:39
VDVsxisn't jeremiah giving a talk there ?16:40
VDVsxI think I read it somewhere o.016:40
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RST38hVDVsx: I do not see him16:43
* noobmonk3y blinks16:43
* VDVsx checks16:44
* noobmonk3y smiles at the fruity goodness16:44
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VDVsxRST38h, 1h MeeGo - operating everywhere, by Jeremiah Foster, Maemo16:45
VDVsxnot sure if is a paper or a talk16:45
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dnearylcuk, Ping?16:47
dnearylcuk, Did I miss your declining your council nomination?16:47
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thopiekarWhy are the colors mixed in the maemo5 sdk?16:48
thopiekarlike red is blue, etc..16:48
* noobmonk3y thinks lcuk fell asleep after the nomination and hasn't woken up since ;)16:48
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* Stskeeps glares at jeremiah's email to maemo-community16:51
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lcukdneary, no i have things to consider :)16:52
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dnearylcuk, Someone mentioned today that you'd declined, and I hadn't seen it, so I was wondering16:53
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lcuksomebody mentioned i am not sure its right16:53
loufoque_should I buy a N900 now or should I wait for the next generation?16:53
VDVsxStskeeps, indeed, lol16:53
nidOloufoque_ do you want a device now or in 6+ months?16:54
nidOthe answer is always wait for the next generation if you can wait, but when you've waited for that one there'll be one after to wait for as well.16:54
thopiekaris there a terminal for maemo5?16:55
* lcuk can see the grapevine works tho :D16:55
loufoque_nidO: I would prefer now, but not if it's going to end up being unsupported software when the new platform comes out16:55
loufoque_will the N900 get meego?16:56
lupine_85loufoque_, nobody's told you?16:56
Stskeepsloufoque_: n900 will be meego reference platform16:56
lupine_85the government has outlawed N900s. They've got people going out confiscating them16:56
lupine_85I had to hide mine where the sun doesn't shine :'(16:56
lupine_85I really wish it was a slimmer form factor16:57
lcukdneary, nice lineup so far tho isnt it16:57
dnearylcuk, Varied16:57
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loufoque_Stskeeps: where have you seen that?16:57
dnearyTry to work out where the power base of each candidate is, and whether they'll mobilise the vote and/or split the electorate :)16:57
ccookeAfternoon, all16:58
lcukcan i use the n900 video as campaign material :D16:58
lcukhiya charles16:58
* GAN900 cackles.16:59
ccookeloufoque_: n900 as meego reference platform has been said several times, now.16:59
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hrwmeegoo, meepoo - what's difference?17:00
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hrwwithout code drops I can say anything17:00
VDVsxloufoque_, like here:
KrisCdoes nokia ever announce their updates for thr n900 ?17:00
ccookehrw: Indeed, they are both rather poor misspellings :-)17:00
VDVsxKrisC, yes17:00
VDVsxin the same day that the update ships17:01
ccookeVDVsx: they're the same for updates to anything though, IIRC?17:01
hrwVDVsx: no, they also announce them months before shipping17:01
hrw"there will be PR1.2 update but we will not tell you will it be this month or next year"17:01
KrisCdoes anybody have an estimate of when the next one will be rolled out?17:02
VDVsxhrw, no officially, afaik17:02
VDVsxie, at *Nokia.com17:02
ponyofdeathhi, i have the usa version of the n900 and i am currently in europ ( bulgaria ) when i try to use the phone i dont see any service with my sim card from bulgarian gsm network. do i have to reflash the device with the international version?17:02
GeneralAntilleshrw, not officially17:02
hrwKrisC: 2nd June was rumoured17:02
GeneralAntillesNokia hardly does anything officially.17:02
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ShadowJKthere's no difference except keyboards17:02
KrisCthats still a while. thnx17:02
GeneralAntillesBasically, they fscking fail at communication17:02
GeneralAntillesWhich is hilarious for a communication company.17:02
hrwGeneralAntilles: sure, it is just visible in too many places and from mouths of many people17:03
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GeneralAntilleshrw, sure, but not official. ;)17:03
Stskeepsloufoque_: meego.com17:03
hrw"Nokia: connecting rumours"17:03
VDVsxKrisC, I doubt that date, but dunno also17:03
TomaszDponyofdeath, do you have network roaming enabled for your operator (t-mobile I assume)?17:03
GeneralAntillesKrisC, certification apparently started the other week.17:03
ccookeGeneralAntilles: actually, it's a trait of every single communications company I've ever seen the internals of (and most of my employers have been communications companies :-)17:03
GeneralAntillesI think cert usually takes about a month.17:03
ponyofdeathTomaszD: the n900 doesnt even detect the network17:03
GeneralAntillesccooke, then the whole industry is a joyfully plentiful source of irony, then, I guess.17:04
ccookeseriously, technology-based companies are almost universally terrible at communicating with people :-)17:04
lcukGeneralAntilles, where do you get your info from17:04
ccookeGeneralAntilles: pretty much, yes.17:04
ponyofdeathTomaszD: i have an sim card here from the bulgarian operator not t-mobile17:04
GeneralAntillesponyofdeath, I had the same problem with an RX-51 and an AT&T SIM in BCN.17:04
VDVsxlcuk, probably from IRC, I heard the same17:04
GeneralAntilleslcuk, konttori, other sources.17:04
ccookeGeneralAntilles: I find learning to laugh at it (and all the train-wrecks it causes) to be a Good Thing for my health.17:04
ponyofdeathGeneralAntilles: how did u solve17:04
GeneralAntillesponyofdeath, didn't.17:05
hrwponyofdeath: it is officially unofficial that pr1.2 has to fix another set of sim problems17:05
GeneralAntillesponyofdeath, just tried to hang around other people with working cellphones. ;)17:05
lcukso why in one breath do you say theres no communication, then in the other you are told17:05
hrwponyofdeath: grab real phone and insert sim into it17:05
ShadowJKponyofdeath, try select network manually17:05
hrwponyofdeath: will work out-of-box probably17:05
GeneralAntilleslcuk, having Nokia employees skirt NDAs in unofficial channels is not communication. :)17:05
loufoque_what the hell, nokia plans to make meego DRM-locked with Microsoft technology17:05
ponyofdeathGeneralAntilles, hrw yes works in my free with sim card nokia but i porefer to use my n90017:06
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hrwloufoque_: this is #maemo not #meego17:06
GeneralAntillesloufoque_, kernel-locked is an option, too!17:06
GeneralAntilleshrw, arguably Harmattan is a valid topic.17:06
ponyofdeathhrw: do u think that the international firmware will change anything17:06
hrwponyofdeath: nope17:06
GeneralAntillesponyofdeath, no.17:06
loufoque_hrw: meego is the future of maemo17:06
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it's all hearsay, anyway.17:06
hrwponyofdeath: this is a problem with gsm modem firmware and this is update only by official releases17:06
GeneralAntilleslcuk, so, again, it's not communication.17:06
loufoque_hrw: or do you prefer living in the past and not concerning yourself with the inevitable?17:07
GeneralAntilleslcuk, official communication involves announcements on nokia.com17:07
ponyofdeathhrw: i see so i need to wait for an fix from nokia17:07
Hydroxideloufoque_: if what they said about maemo 6 is not being overridden by the meego transition, it will give the END-USER the DOCUMENTED option to choose between supporting Microsoft's PlayReady DRM or having full access to the device. I believe this was said on tmo in some official capacity by some nokian like qgil, but I may have misremembered the source17:07
hrwloufoque_: so far I ignore all meego things as so far it is only talk which is cheap. show me the code is what may change situation17:07
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GeneralAntillesHydroxide, assuming they bought their device from Nokia.17:07
ccookeponyofdeath: have you tried manually selecting a network?17:07
ponyofdeathhrw: as u mentioned pr1.2 is there an beta of that somewhere? :)17:07
* lcuk nods in agreement17:08
GeneralAntillesHydroxide, anywhere else you may not have a choice.17:08
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: oh, you mean a carrier-branded device? good point17:08
hrwponyofdeath: sure - on 17th partition of my 65th harddrive.17:08
slonopotamusokay, i found what drained my battery in standby mode. it was cpumem-applet17:08
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to force Nokia to GPLv317:08
ponyofdeathccooke: how can i select manually i dont see the network at all17:08
GeneralAntillesThey're pulling evil shit.17:08
hrwponyofdeath: you need to be @nokia man to get it17:08
ccookeponyofdeath: Menu -> Settings -> Phone -> Network17:09
GeneralAntillesMeeGo is backsliding in a lot of areas.17:09
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HydroxideGeneralAntilles: though I do wonder if carrier-branded devices that have been legally unlocked will have any legal obstacles preventing them from flashing the unbranded Nokia firmware17:09
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: (or technical obstacles)17:09
GeneralAntillesIt's unfortunate that Nokia is so hung up on their services malarkey that vendors and operators are going to be allowed to run rampant with differentiation.17:09
ccookeGeneralAntilles: (curious) how do you know?17:09
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GeneralAntillesccooke, which point?17:10
ponyofdeathccooke: ok now i see it when i did manual17:10
FIQi seems to have mksh installed. For some reason, I'm unable to install it. Why?17:10
ccookeGeneralAntilles: sorry, that meego is backsliding. I've heard very little concrete about it.17:10
ccookeponyofdeath: you have a network?17:10
GeneralAntillesccooke, look at the Harmattan security framework.17:10
* VDVsx suspects that GeneralAntilles works for Nokia :P17:10
GeneralAntillesccooke, look at the lack of enforcement of platform-cohesiveness.17:10
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GeneralAntillesccooke, with Maemo 5 you at least didn't have to worry about signed kernels.17:11
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ponyofdeathCook yes i see two one of which is the one i have an sim for17:12
thopiekaris there a xterm app for maemo5?17:12
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, hey, I'm not the one flying into HEL.17:12
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ccookeGeneralAntilles: according to the announcements at the summit, you don't have to. They committed at that point to allowing non-signed kernels.17:12
GeneralAntillesccooke, for Nokia unlocked devices.17:12
GeneralAntillesccooke, that doesn't help people who buy from carriers or other vendors.17:12
ccookeGeneralAntilles: and the other ones will depend on the carrier, yes.17:13
GeneralAntillesThat makes community-sourced support that much more difficult to provide.17:13
hrwthopiekar: you have it on device already17:13
sheepbatpeople on verizon will be utterly screwed17:13
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: this goes back to my question about what legal or technical obstacles will stand in the way of applying unbranded software to legally unlocked devices17:13
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Hydroxidesheepbat: well, yeah, CMDA...17:13
thopiekarhrw: I don't have a device just a sdk..17:13
sheepbatthat too17:13
GeneralAntillesHydroxide, well, it's all got to go through NOLO.17:13
hrwthopiekar: same17:13
* thopiekar has just a N80017:13
ccookeGeneralAntilles: Support for custom kernels has always been terrible anyway, though. I don't see how people will really notice.17:13
GeneralAntillesHydroxide, so technical obstacles sit in the bootloader.17:14
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But you can run any kernel in open mode.17:14
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: well, the bootloader can be replaced, too, right?17:14
ccookeHydroxide: no17:14
HydroxideX-Fade: even on carrier-branded devices?17:14
HydroxideX-Fade: (after legally SIM-unlocking them)17:14
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ccookeHydroxide: that one is a definite. The next device will not boot without a signed bootloader. Unsigned kernels are fine, but...17:14
X-FadeHydroxide: After unlock they should be open.17:14
GeneralAntillesI don't believe the bootloader can be replaced with Harmattan devices.17:15
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GeneralAntillesBut I'm not sure17:15
ccookeGeneralAntilles: definitely not replacable.17:15
GeneralAntillesNot that there's a viable replacement available anyway.17:15
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Why would you want that.17:15
HydroxideX-Fade: e.g. to use something more flexible like an ARM equivalent of grub2?17:15
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, as a technical workaround to lock-in signed kernels on carrier devices.17:15
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: In open mode you can use any kernel.17:15
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, not on a carrier device.17:16
ccookeHydroxide: no need. If you can run an unsigned kernel, you can run a second bootloader as a kernel.17:16
Hydroxideccooke: true...17:16
GeneralAntillesAt least, the possibility is there for carrier devices to only load signed kernels.17:16
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: If you buy a 'sponsored' carrier device, you know you are locked in anyway.17:16
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: That is only fair.17:16
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, unfortunately the vast majority of consumers don't understand that.17:16
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GeneralAntillesand Nokia's wasting another opportunity to change the market.17:17
ccookeOf course, it's the law in quite a few places that carrier locks can be removed. That would pretty much have to cover installation of non-carrier firmware, too17:17
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: They never have been able to do that on other devices either.17:17
HydroxideX-Fade: have they documented officially whether Nokia will require people who have met whatever their country's or carrier's rule is about earning the right to legally SIM-unlock will then have full access to the device?17:17
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: So really no news.17:17
Hydroxideccooke: don't assume that. at least for Win-Mo phones, SIM-unlock and firmware-unlock are two different things17:17
GeneralAntillesIt's backsliding from Maemo 517:17
GeneralAntillesSigned kernels are bad juju.17:17
X-FadeHydroxide: That is between the carrier and you.17:17
GeneralAntillesTiVoization is inevitable.17:17
X-FadeHydroxide: That is where the contract is.17:17
ponyofdeathccooke hrw GeneralAntilles hey guys that seemed to have fixed it not sure what i did tho maby the sim was not inserted properly17:17
GeneralAntillesI don't trust Nokia here.17:17
hrwX-Fade: some operatotrs do not do sim locking anymore17:18
HydroxideX-Fade: well there's also a contract between the carrier and nokia17:18
X-FadeHydroxide: Basically you just need to enter the unlock code and the device is opened.17:18
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X-Fadehrw: Power to them.17:18
HydroxideX-Fade: on phones generally, SIM-unlocking does not imply being able to flash a custom firmware without another layer of unlocking17:18
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HydroxideX-Fade: most carriers and most national laws don't address that second case17:18
X-FadeHydroxide: Simlock is usually not linked with firmware anyway ;)17:18
hrwnokia s40 (and older) phones are easy to unlock anyway17:19
X-FadeHydroxide: They have to abide by local law.17:19
X-FadeHydroxide: Take them to court otherwise.17:19
HydroxideX-Fade: right... I don't think I'm being clear17:19
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X-FadeHydroxide: The unlock functionalty is there. If the carrier gives you the code, that is up to them.17:19
HydroxideX-Fade: the "code" you are referring to is for sim-unlocking, I presume. is nokia going to ensure in their agreements with carriers selling branded n900 devices that once customers have met their obligation to sim-unlock they will also be able to replace the firmware or use open mode?17:20
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X-FadeHydroxide: You can symlock your open device too ;)17:20
GeneralAntillesHydroxide, I'd doubt it.17:20
X-FadeHydroxide: It is just basic functionality already there.17:20
Hydroxideor technically link sim-unlocking to firmware/openmode-unlocking17:20
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: me too17:20
GeneralAntillesDifferentiation fragmentation is going to be unfortunate.17:21
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X-FadeHydroxide: Your contract is not with Nokia.17:21
Stskeepsisn't it great how we can discuss this stuff instead of rpm vs deb or meego on n900?17:21
X-FadeHydroxide: And a symlock is just a bit in some register anyway.17:21
HydroxideX-Fade: I fully realize that. I can see that my question is still not clear to you, so I'll drop it - the odds of nokia doing what I want in this regard are small17:21
* GeneralAntilles feels strongly like wading through Nokia's top execs with a large frozen trout.17:21
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X-FadeHydroxide: Nokia won't do anything?17:22
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, Maemo 5 is a long-term dead-end and MeeGo doesn't exist.17:22
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, nice little vacuum for energy to go nowhere productive in. ;)17:22
HydroxideX-Fade: why are you asking me?17:22
X-FadeHydroxide: There is symlock functionality. Carrier can turn it on and off.17:22
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i kinda like this calm before the storm17:22
HydroxideX-Fade: right. that's irrelevant to what I wanted to know, except in terms of the relation to one's agreement with the carrier17:22
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, the "calm" is poisoning thing and resulting in a lot of atrophied enthusiasm. ;)17:23
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Stskeeps, the "calm" is poisoning things and resulting in a lot of atrophied enthusiasm. ;)17:23
X-FadeHydroxide: Nokia won't do anything about the relationship between you and your carrier.17:23
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, is a "symlock" like a "symlink" but hardcoded into the bootloader? :P17:23
HydroxideX-Fade: let me rephrase. will nokia allow branded n900 sellers to permanently deny you access to open mode even after you've gotten the carrier to sim-unlock the phone and you've completed your contract and paid back the subsidy?17:24
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, that's the part I find unfortunate.17:24
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yeah, something like that ;)17:24
GeneralAntillesHydroxide, my bet is "yes".17:24
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: right, mine too, but I don't think I had communicated my question to X-Fade that clearly before17:24
* GeneralAntilles doubts laws around this stuff have any clauses addressing software Freedom. ;)17:25
X-FadeHydroxide: Sellers can't deny you that.17:25
HydroxideX-Fade: how not?17:25
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X-FadeHydroxide: Once simlock is gone, the device is just like any other open one.17:25
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X-FadeHydroxide: So really if they let you unlock it, there is no difference.17:25
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HydroxideX-Fade: so if simlock is gone you are able to switch into open mode and put on unbranded firmware and unsigned kernels (without DRM ability)?17:25
X-FadeHydroxide: And Nokia is certainly not coming between the carrier and you to negotiate different tems ;)17:26
HydroxideX-Fade: even if you get your phone from a carrier?17:26
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GeneralAntillesI think that answers the question.17:26
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HydroxideGeneralAntilles: almost17:26
X-FadeHydroxide: Check the harmattan security framework presentation. With the bootloader diagram.17:26
GeneralAntillesSort of side-steps it.17:26
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: it doesn't answer the question of what you can do with a device that used to be SIM-locked but is no longer SIM-locked17:27
X-FadeHydroxide: If no simlock -> do whatever you like.17:27
HydroxideX-Fade: ok, that DOES answer my question17:27
X-FadeHydroxide: As said. Remove simlock == Clean device without simlock.17:27
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, somehow I doubt it'll be that easy.17:28
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Simlocks are generally stored somewhere not in firmware ;)17:28
HydroxideX-Fade: ok. some mobile phones have other restrictive locks in addition to the sim lock, which is why it took this long to understand what you were saying :)17:28
GeneralAntillesI doubt disabling simlock will also simultaneously disable bootloader kernel checks.17:29
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: No, it doesn't.17:29
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Check the diagram.17:29
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: If kernel is not signed, check if simlock is there. If not, continue in open mode.17:29
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: what's relevant really is whether disabling simlock will also simultaneously disable restrictions on the ABILITY to disable bootloader kernel checks17:30
X-FadeThat will disable all your drm though.17:30
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GeneralAntillesHydroxide, I doubt it.17:30
X-FadeBootloader checks will probably never be disabled.17:31
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: X-Fade is saying that the answer is that you can use open mode even on a carrier-branded device if the simlock has been removed17:31
X-FadeAs you need a secure path from the top.17:31
Stskeepsthere's probably already bootloader checks (before kernel) on n90017:31
* GeneralAntilles can't wait for carrier-locked devices with locked signed kernels and locked signed firmwares whose operators are 3 versions behind from the latest.17:31
GeneralAntillesSupport's going to be a blast.17:31
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: if s/he's right I am pleasantly surprised17:31
GeneralAntillesHydroxide, s/s\/he's/they're/g17:32
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: no, I was referring to X-Fade17:32
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: unless X-Fade is multiple people :)17:33
sheepbatsingular they?17:33
GeneralAntillesHydroxide, are you a native English speaker?17:33
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: yes17:33
X-FadeThis is what has been communicated at the summit and Fosdem too.17:33
HydroxideI'm aware of singular they17:33
GeneralAntillesAh, so just a stickler on ugly PC pronouns.17:33
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: no17:33
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: it just seemed less clear in this case. I use singular they a lot17:33
tybolltdoes iphone and googlers phone come w/ such custom firmwares?17:34
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: and I didn't want to assume that X-Fade was make17:34
Hydroxidebut now that I've seen the profile, I will assume that about him :)17:34
GeneralAntillestybollt, iPhone doesn't belong in any such discussion. ;)17:34
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* Hydroxide has no objection to singular they in general17:34
X-FadeHydroxide: You sometimes can meet me in public ;)17:34
GeneralAntillesHydroxide, Nokian's love to dance around using singular they and it irritates me to no end. ;)17:34
GeneralAntillesHydroxide, so I'm touchy about it. ;)17:35
HydroxideX-Fade: the next FOSS event I'll be going to is DebConf10 in NYC in August. (I'm one of the organizers)17:35
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HydroxideX-Fade: care to join us? :)17:35
* Hydroxide nods at GeneralAntilles 17:35
X-FadeHydroxide: Not sure if deb is still a hot topic for us ;)17:35
HydroxideX-Fade: hahaha :)17:36
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, at least, we can hope Nokia makes it not one.17:36
StskeepsHydroxide: i would probably get showered with tomatoes if i tried to present MeeGo17:36
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, when life gives you tomatoes, you make pasta sauce. :P17:36
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HydroxideStskeeps: but they'd be DFSG-free tomatoes! you can modify then and reproduce them until you have enough to make ketchup!17:36
Hydroxide(or pasta sauce)17:37
* thresh hopes nokia'll use jbj's rpm5.17:37
* tybollt prepares the ketchup canon and aims at stskeeps17:37
tybolltI'm on to ya!17:37
StskeepsHydroxide: please make sure the BoF room isn't above body temperature next time17:37
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HydroxideStskeeps: we will be in the US - we pay more attention to temperature control than Extremadura :)17:37
* GeneralAntilles hums the Ketchup Advisory Board tune in his head.17:37
HydroxideStskeeps: we'll be hosted by Columbia University, fwiw17:37
Stskeepsthink i'm not going this time around :P17:38
HydroxideStskeeps: ah well17:38
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* Hydroxide still hopes to see some M*o people there beyond the DD crowd who's still involved in that stuff via companies like Collabora, ARM, Intel, and others17:38
sheepbatcatchup, GeneralAntilles17:39
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* Myrtti tries to read the backlog17:40
* Stskeeps just hopes people are sane enough to see beyond packaging format and towards the abilities of the platform and tools instead17:40
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HydroxideStskeeps: I'm definitely not giving up on MeeGo before enough information, code and/or devices are public to make an informed decision myself. and I do hope for the best. I can't carry on this conversation too much more in #maemo before people redirect me to #meego or /msg though :)17:42
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Hydroxideand I say that even as a DD, and even despite some disappointment about specific decisions and processes.17:43
StskeepsHydroxide: i'm not worried as from my position and knowledge about it and i still have quite an activistic agenda regarding maemo/meego :P17:43
achipaStskeeps: part of the problem is that the packaging format is announced/perceived as the action, and not as the consequence of platform/tools17:44
Stskeepsachipa: yeah, i know17:44
Stskeepsit was tried to be communicated a sane reasoning but it drowned17:44
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achipathis sanity thing always gets in the way... will have to do something about it17:45
Stskeepsi think the execution of the platform will be the proof point instead17:45
* RST38h moos at Myrtti17:45
Stskeepsand for the remaining issues, a good discussion that can lead to something will be good :P17:46
X-FadeIt will be interesting for sure :)17:46
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* RST38h yawns and notes that as far as he is concerned, switching from .deb to .rpm is like changing your diet from gray dried rats to brown dried rats17:46
HydroxideStskeeps: nokia could also have done a better public job of explicitly addressing each of the advantages they were abandoning with this switch and saying why they were willing to give each of them up. they did address the issue of having to make compromises and the advantages of collaborating with intel, but they didn't address all the criticisms. again, this is a communication and community management comment, not any comment on the technical ...17:46
achipayes, just hoping the day-one drop contains enough meat to actually be meaningful17:46
Hydroxide... decision itself17:46
GAN900RST38h, gray rats are clearly more flavorful and tender.17:47
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RST38hBut do keep in mind, for example, that upgrading Python on Centos kill YUM dead. So, I would not be so optimistic about those mighty RedHat "tools"17:47
X-Fadeachipa: Even after the code drop, there will be a lot to discuss. But at least there will be a base.17:47
StskeepsRST38h: will be zypp, not yum17:47
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Stskeeps(not python)17:47
RST38hStskeeps: I am sure it will be similarly made of shit and vapors17:47
achipaX-Fade: yeah, without it, it's 'my package format is bigger than yours'17:48
X-FadeRST38h: Looks like a C app anyway.17:48
RST38hStskeeps: (not that etch is made of pure gold of course :))17:48
ShadowJKachipa, even a size zero codedrop would be useful, since it marks the starting point of development in the open17:48
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ebzzryHi! Is extras-testing relatively "safe" for daily use?17:48
lcukRST38h, shortcut:  the grass is always greener.17:48
RST38hlcuk: Yep.17:49
lcukthere will be problems in whichever method17:49
lcukim just glad everyone is busy and working together to new problems17:49
achipaShadowJK: git init17:49
RST38hX-Fade: They should have just used FreeBSD tools :)17:49
achipaShadowJK: there :)17:49
GeneralAntillesRST38h, by the way, the FBReader rotation is in the opposite direction of the button graphic.17:49
RST38hX-Fade: Which, strangely, DO work, and have worked for years17:49
ShadowJKebzzry, well probably if you ask such a question, then the answer is probably not17:49
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Myrttiebzzry: er, it's _testing_ so draw your own conclusions17:50
RST38hGeneral: Well, the graphic is not mine, I am using the stock icon. But I can always rotate it the other way, if it is such a problem :)17:50
ebzzryShadikka: OK17:50
ebzzryMyrtti: OK17:50
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* Hydroxide decides not to help prolong this conversation since it seems to be going back into the now-moot substance details instead of the communication issues17:50
GeneralAntillesRST38h, counter-clockwise is more useful than clockwise considering the device's button arrangement.17:51
ebzzryDAE here use Extra-Testing on a daily basis?17:51
GeneralAntillesRST38h, but not having to ship your own icon is also a plus.17:51
X-Fadeebzzry: I use testing every day and haven't had too much problems.17:52
ebzzryX-Fade: OK17:52
X-Fadeebzzry: But it depends on what your knowledge in the platform is.17:53
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ebzzryThe reason why I'm asking this is that I've been Debian Testing for quite some time now, and I haven't experienced show-stopping issues. Yes, I mentioned Debian, just for comparison purposes.17:53
GeneralAntillesebzzry, the two aren't really comparable.17:53
ebzzryGeneralAntilles: Faster response than I expected17:53
ebzzryX-Fade: My primary concern is the likelihood of bricking my device.17:54
X-Fadeebzzry: Well that hasn't happened to me.17:54
GeneralAntillesebzzry, well, Extras-testing is a one-step promotion process from Extras-devel.17:54
GeneralAntillesebzzry, so the only thing protecting you are the maintainers themselves.17:54
X-Fadeebzzry: But keep backups handy anyway.17:54
GeneralAntillesebzzry, so it's not inconceivable that something bad could happen.17:54
ebzzryX-Fade: Hmm, OK.17:54
ebzzryGeneralAntilles: OK17:55
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ebzzryIt's a matter of trust, too, then.17:55
GeneralAntillesebzzry, it's unlikely, and I, personally, haven't had any issues.17:55
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GeneralAntillesebzzry, but if you're not really completely comfortable with things then I'd recommend ONLY grabbing packages that you need then disabling the repo.17:55
ebzzryGeneralAntilles: That's good. So if I decide to use Extras-Testing, is it wise to disable Extras?17:55
Andrewfblackwhat do you guys think of the first wallpaper for the star trek theme I'm working on
GeneralAntillesebzzry, no need.17:55
ebzzryGeneralAntilles: OK17:56
GeneralAntillesebzzry, Testing will always supercede Extras-proper.17:56
* RST38h transdickifies a spammer17:56
ebzzryGeneralAntilles: Hmm, OK)17:56
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GeneralAntillesebzzry, in other words, Extras is just a subset of Testing.17:56
RST38hAndrew: Will the boot picture show Quim as Borg?17:56
ebzzryWhat are your reasons for using Extras-Testing?17:56
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ebzzryI'm curious.17:57
lcukAndrewfblack, complex!17:57
X-Fadeebzzry: QA testing apps?17:57
ebzzryX-Fade: I got lost there a bit, what do you mean by that?17:57
sheepbatquality assurance17:58
sheepbatit allows people to test apps for stability and completeness17:58
Andrewfblacklcuk: good complex?17:58
lcukAndrewfblack, tho this has mileage
ebzzryHow about for others?17:58
lcukAndrewfblack, i dont like backgrounds that loow me to mix up widgets17:58
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lcuktoo much background detail loses the foreground17:58
X-Fadeebzzry: There is some documentation on that. Will probably answer all your questions.17:58
GeneralAntilleslcuk, sadly I'm not particularly light-hearted about that image.17:58
X-Fadeebzzry: If not... it is a wiki :)17:59
GeneralAntillesIt wasn't exactly intended in a spirit of humor and goodwill. :)17:59
lcukwhy not GeneralAntilles - you are captian of a starship17:59
GeneralAntillesMuch like mullf's ever-so-mature troll photoshop.17:59
ebzzryThanks, I've read that. Hmm.17:59
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VDVsxGeneralAntilles, seems more a paint job than PS :D18:01
lcukGeneralAntilles, i cant even remember why i pasted it now18:01
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lcuki think it was related to
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VDVsxwhy Jaffa isn't there^ :D18:03
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* ShadowJK posts a few "mugen lies" posts in mugen's youtube video18:04
ShadowJKI wonder if I'll get censored :D18:04
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ShadowJKthough seriously... users suck18:05
ShadowJKexpecting more capacity in the same volume18:05
sheepbatthe battery doesn't work?18:07
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ShadowJKAh no, people were posting "come on make a 1800mAh battery that fits in same door"18:07
ShadowJKand I said that anyone who claims to have made such a thing are liars, including mugen ;P18:07
sheepbatoh, hehe18:08
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ShadowJKThey have a battery for N800/N810 that is physically just slightly smaller than the original, and is claimed to be 1800mAh (original is 1500mAh)... I ordered one18:08
ShadowJKtested out as 1200mAh :)18:08
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ShadowJKHeck, the battery itself told my N800 that it's 1200mAh18:08
SpeedEvilhow tested?18:09
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, second by second current measurement from full to empty, integrate18:09
SpeedEvilThe best way to measure it is to weigh it full and empty, and compare weights.18:09
ShadowJKI didn't think the difference would be measurable..18:09
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ShadowJKSelling replacement batteries with overstated capacity worked back when people bought batteries because they didn't get enough talk/standby time anymore18:11
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ShadowJKbecause then their phone was a year or two old, and a 1500mAh battery would have degraded to less than 1200mAh by then, and the increased internal resistance makes the battery meter behaviour "worse"18:12
ShadowJKso popping in a fresh 1200mAh battery in place of an aged battery would still be a big improvement18:13
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noobmonk3ylol my battery has never gone above 94% :D - hehe18:13
ShadowJKOverstating capacity doesn't work so well today when new dumbphones cost 20-30 bucks... people mostly buy batteries to try extend their new shiny powerhungry smartphones' batterylife18:13
noobmonk3y(and yes i know its based on loadsa factors)18:13
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ShadowJKThe meter and charger don't cooperate very well I think ;)18:14
threshhow's ipv6 on n900?18:14
ShadowJKthresh, out of the box? nonexistant18:14
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lupine_85thresh, it's ok18:16
lupine_85there's a kernel package you can install that comes with ipv618:16
lupine_85and the the userland has it compiled in18:17
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* lupine_85 has permanent global unicast ipv6 via miredo18:17
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* noobmonk3y feels better after a bit of troll hunting..........18:18
threshah nice.18:18
threshand i know someone who i can poke about miredo :-)18:18
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* VDVsx trolls noobmonk3y :P18:18
* noobmonk3y giggles like an ickle troll........18:18
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noobmonk3ytheres something satisfying at the moment when i hear things like "Why are there not any games, or why havn't we got this app, game etc...." - it makes me go warm and fuzzy.....18:19
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lupine_85thresh, my idea for what to do next was mobile IPv618:20
lupine_85but I'm a bit stuck at the HA end18:20
VDVsxnoobmonk3y, what about fart apps, no fart app so far, I'm a bit disappointed with that :D18:22
threshlupine_85: well, i only care for wireless.18:22
meceHow does a fart app work exactly?18:22
noobmonk3yOh pants... sorry forgot about my next app "Pull my Finger" - will start development once healthcheck is a bit more tarted up :D18:22
noobmonk3yPull my finger will be a vertical hand with a finger, drag it out... and depending on the speed it will releive itself........ :D18:22
VDVsxmece, press a button and a fart sound is emitted, (I think)18:23
noobmonk3y(or horizontal depending how you look at it)18:23
noobmonk3yVDVsx: expert on the old fart apps hey? you should become a Troll :D :D18:23
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, any fart app must include samples from prominent Maemo Community members.18:23
noobmonk3yGeneralAntilles: you scare me.........18:24
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noobmonk3yi never ever want to hear the right revrand Kathy trumping18:24
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* noobmonk3y thinks that sentence should be framed and placed above the tmo mantlepiece18:24
VDVsxplease stop, ahah18:24
* slonopotamus quickly open fart ringtones shop18:24
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noobmonk3ytimmmmmmme for some fresh air , brb18:25
zaheermVDVsx, you should stand again18:25
* noobmonk3y coughs18:25
lcuknoobmonk3y, revdkathy is so petite if she did ever trump she would probably enter orbit18:25
GeneralAntillesThen we can cut you off at the knees!18:25
noobmonk3yVDVsx: Standing and styping can cause back problems, see a pysio first :D18:25
zaheermVDVsx, you're very active currently18:25
noobmonk3ylol lcuk !!!!!18:25
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VDVsxzaheerm, don't have time in the next month :(, otherwise probably will run again, but we already have a very good lineup18:26
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zaheermVDVsx, will you consider standing next election, assuming there is another council?18:28
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VDVsxzaheerm, that probably will be the meego council :D, a lot can change till then18:29
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VDVsxnoobmonk3y, ok got a solution ;D, open that in your n900 (it's flash):
* noobmonk3y finds his n90018:31
noobmonk3yahhhh charging, where else would it be ;)18:31
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VDVsxsorry for the less appropriated content in the pubs :D18:31
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Arif_ohai thur18:32
* noobmonk3y is loading the fart machine :D18:32
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noobmonk3yhey Arif_18:33
Arif_sup =)18:33
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noobmonk3yArif_: ctachup of the last 10 minutes  = <lcuk>  noobmonk3y, revdkathy is so petite if she did ever trump she would probably enter orbit18:33
noobmonk3ydone, all caught up :D hehehe18:33
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noobmonk3ylol VDVsx  - superb :D18:34
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Arif_I can't dangle my phone around my neck anymore18:35
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noobmonk3ylol you could, but with the size and weight you might be crawling ;)18:35
* lcuk had n900 on lanyard for ages18:36
lcukive even got a pendant app lol18:36
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Arif_I lost the rope thingy :D18:36
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Arif_soon I'll lose the phone itself probably18:36
noobmonk3ylcuk: you scare me too18:37
* noobmonk3y is slowly getting scared of everyone.... starting with VDVsx .... *shudders*18:37
VDVsxnoobmonk3y, no need I'm far from you, but lcuk ....18:38
* Arif_ sends noobmonk3y some new firmware18:38
* noobmonk3y blinks... firmware whats that?18:38
* noobmonk3y throws firmware at Arif_ 18:39
* Arif_ installs it18:39
* noobmonk3y thinks firmware and faeces aren't that far apart......18:39
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joppuso many bugs tagged "fixed in pr1.2"18:40
joppurelease should be relatively soon18:41
Arif_now they can work on actually adding features!18:41
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* lcuk slaps Arif_ 18:41
* Arif_ throws bugs at lcuk18:42
* noobmonk3y eats the bugs and decides it's time to go home18:42
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slonopotamusi accidentally clicked smth18:50
Arif_and it exploded?18:50
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slonopotamusArif_: and xchat closed18:51
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* Arif_ uses mIRC18:51
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pupnikhow do i filtedr out the GOD DAMN redirection?18:52
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pupnikahah just disable f*** javascript18:54
gouverneurwhat is this 3.2010.02-8 needing the softwareupdate from PC connected?18:55
zogg__what for?18:55
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zogg__would be opera on maemo? =)18:55
Arif_ovi store hasn't added anything yet18:55
pupnikwho wants to get together and beat-up the people who developed javascript?18:55
pupniki need a field trip18:56
zogg__ovi should add as much as they can and not free till they switch to meego =(18:56
GeneralAntillesgouverneur, means you have conflicting packages installed.18:56
inzpupnik, if I supported violence, I would gladly support your cause.18:56
Arif_pupnik, me me!18:57
Arif_then lets go over to ovi management to beat them up18:57
pupnikme too >:(18:57
* Arif_ has no problem beating people up :D18:58
zogg__-NickServ- You may not ghost ZogG.18:58
Arif_I forgot my password for my _ less nick18:58
Arif_maybe its not even mine!18:58
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zogg__-NickServ- ZogG has been ghosted.18:59
zogg__-NickServ- ZogG is not online.18:59
zogg__* ZogG :Nickname is already in use.18:59
zogg__are they kidding me?18:59
* Arif_ smirks19:00
Arif_they're playing with you :(19:00
Stskeepsa reconnect19:00
Stskeepsyou can do a hold ghosting too i think19:00
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ZogGthe force is on my side19:01
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Arif_what force :P19:01
ZogGanyway so we sucked up with n900 ah?19:01
Stskeepssucked up? :P19:01
Arif_I got bored of mine already19:01
ZogGsure dark side force19:01
lupine_85I'm still <3ing mine19:01
ZogGanyway you don't get anything in being good19:01
lupine_85I did a presentation on it yesterday19:01
ZogGnowdays it's hard to get19:01
lupine_85literally, everything on it19:01
ZogG"thank you"19:02
lupine_85plugged straight into the projector and everything19:02
ZogGyeah it's cool19:02
ZogGbut it's not fully functioning19:02
ZogGlike front cam and so on19:02
ZogGand i don't think nokia will spent money on it's development anymore =(19:03
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ZogGis maemo totally open?19:03
Stskeepsno, never was19:03
lupine_85I guess they don't not develop features I'm not interested in19:03
lupine_85if you know what I mean19:03
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StskeepsZogG: there's plenty of money getting spent in meego,, and the PR releases for fremantle19:03
ZogGi'm just curious how hard is it to get specifications or all drivers of n900 to make your own os19:04
Stskeepsdepends, are you ideological or practical?19:04
ZogGStskeeps, for now19:04
Stskeeps(those two often conflict)19:04
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Stskeepsif you're practical, it's entirely possible to run your own os19:04
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Stskeepsi mean, check
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ZogGStskeeps, i'm not that good in these but thinking to port gentoo19:05
Stskeepsyou can join the other guys :P19:05
Stskeepsluke-jr and slonopotamus on n8x019:05
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ZogGas you can use already existing kernel and all the stuff19:05
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ZogGsource based linux developing is much easier imho19:06
gouverneurGeneralAntilles: should find the conflicts with apt... I try19:06
Stskeepsuntil you try to build qt natively, yes19:06
TomaszDStskeeps, wearing a hoodie at home? ;)19:06
slonopotamusZogG: gentoo on n900 is rather pointless until you have open telephony.19:06
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GAN900Sith Lord!19:06
StskeepsTomaszD: mandatory wear for masters19:06
arachnistslonopotamus: ofono?19:07
GAN900Or maybe apprentice19:07
TomaszDoh, ok19:07
* GAN900 bets on Quim being the master.19:07
StskeepsTomaszD: the heating was absolutely shot that day19:07
TomaszDStskeeps, would ofono just work on mer?19:07
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ZogGslonopotamus why so?19:07
lupine_85anything's possible19:07
StskeepsTomaszD: jebba had it working on fedora, but there's some small pieces we need to work on getting opened19:07
Stskeepssmall utilities19:07
Stskeeps(which is entirely possible019:07
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TomaszDso it's possible to get a Merphone19:08
slonopotamusarachnist: does it include gui?19:08
slonopotamusZogG: don't you want to be able to make calls? :)19:09
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gouverneurthis is just for noobs isnt it, I had that maemo 5 package visible and it asked me to use the pc software, after an apt-get upgrade it disappeared...19:09
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slonopotamusZogG: you can get armv7 stage, unpack, chroot into it and have gentoo there :)19:10
ZogGslonopotamus and you can build all stuff to make calls as it's done in maemo19:10
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ZogGas e.g. i use nvidia official drivers and they are closed19:11
ZogGanyway i have to run to uni19:11
slonopotamusZogG: only open stuff19:11
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slonopotamusZogG: nvidia drivers do not link to loads of closed libs19:12
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pupniki need flash / js disabled, but easily individually enable per-onject19:12
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slonopotamuspupnik: flashblock + smth unknown19:13
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pupniknot working for microb here19:14
slonopotamushmm... i saw flashblock in extras19:14
DrGrovGood evening19:15
* ShadowJK uses the adblock-css thing, comes with flashblock19:15
DrGrovi found out that the Eevil"something" named theme was making my N900 reboot automatically when I installed it... that's a bit odd19:16
slonopotamusDrGrov: don't install it then :/19:17
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DrGrovslonopotamus: but it doesn't do that anymore :)19:19
DrGrovslonopotamus: it might have been since it said that it would require a reboot...19:19
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slonopotamusDrGrov: you could try to uninstall and install it again. maybe it'll reboot again then.19:20
slonopotamusactually there are easier ways to perform a reboot :/19:21
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DrGrovslonopotamus: i don't really care if it reboots since i didn't have anything running.19:21
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slonopotamusDrGrov: i'm totally lost... what's your question then?19:22
DrGrovslonopotamus: i was just a bit scared of loosing contact information or settings but nothing lost. or can anything be lost when it does a forced reboot? or perhaps i rebooted manually without seeing the button? anyone else had this problem with that theme?19:22
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slonopotamusDrGrov: reboot is unlikely to trigger data loss. pulling out battery is more dangerous :)19:25
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andrei1089Hi, is there any dbus signal emitted when the phone is rebooted?19:35
mgedminbefore or after?19:36
corecodei gues before :)19:38
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corecodei still need to import my sms19:38
corecodefrom my e5119:38
andrei1089mgedmin, I want my desktop widget to save some data before the reboot19:38
andrei1089the unrealize event isn't called for the widget is the phone is rebooted19:39
andrei1089any ideas?19:39
mgedminandrei1089, check with dbus-monitor19:39
corecodeandrei1089: no idea about the sdk (yet), but you could catch sigterm19:40
corecodeandrei1089: and store info on sigterm19:40
corecodeusually there should first be a sigterm, and then later a sigkill19:40
arachnistandrei1089: dunno about dbus signals, but i'm sure there are upstart signals emitted19:41
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arachnistandrei1089: i'd try leaving "initctl events > /somewhere" and reboot the device19:41
arachnist(using the UI)19:42
* corecode eyes arachnist 19:42
andrei1089corecode, all the widgets are running in the same process, I'm afraid some other problems may appear if I change some signals19:42
arachnistcorecode: yes, i'm here19:42
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corecodearachnist: no webos?19:42
arachnistcorecode: and i do have the n900, ever since it was available19:42
arachnistcorecode: nope19:42
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corecodenew webos update seemed to have helped with interactivity19:42
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arachnisti'm not a fan of Palm hardware19:43
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corecodeandrei1089: yea, that's nasty.19:43
corecodereally, all widgets run in one process?19:43
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andrei1089corecode, yes hildon-home19:43
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mgedmindoes C have something like Python's atexit?19:44
corecodesure does19:44
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corecodebut a sigterm usually is deadly and won't run atexit hooks19:44
andrei1089mgedmin, my widget is written in python19:44
mgedmindidn't Python actually copy the design from the C function?19:44
lizardomgedmin: it is called "atexit" :)19:44
mgedminandrei1089, sigterm isn't deadly, sigkill is19:44
corecodesigterm is deadly if uncaught19:45
mgedminyou mean by default sigterm will not call functions registered with atexit?19:45
corecodeif you don't ignore sigterm or have a signal handler, the process will die19:46
mgedminduh :(19:46
corecodeand not execute atexit hooks19:46
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corecodeyou'd have to catch sigterm and then call _exit(), but that doesn't run atexit, but you're not allowed to call exit(3) from a signal handler19:47
corecodeall a mess19:47
mgedminand hildon desktop widget api doesn't have any kind of termination callback?19:47
mgedminwhat sort of data do you want to save?19:48
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andrei1089if you close a widget the unrealize event is called19:49
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andrei1089I'm developing the pedometerwidget, now the current steps are lost if the phone is rebooted19:50
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andrei1089mgedmin, ^19:51
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mgedminuse sqlite, like firefox!  fsync() on every step!  overwhelm the flash write cycle limit in weeks!19:52
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mgedmindunno, a periodic write of data, say every 60 seconds (if the data has changed), shouldn't consume too much battery power, should it?19:52
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mgedminyou're probably waking up more often than that to poll the accelerometer, no?19:53
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andrei1089yeah..I thought of this too. I'll probably do it this way.. but i'll try to see if atexit works19:55
andrei1089mgedmin, thanks19:55
mgedminandrei1089, consider also things like crashes and running out of battery power -- I doubt hildon-desktop gets shut down cleanly in those cases19:55
mgedminand crashes happen, especially when you install a bunch of random 3rd-party widgets19:55
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mgedminit would suck to lose a day's worth of data if some other widget crashed the desktop process19:56
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andrei1089mgedmin, then it would be safer to save the data every minute or so..19:57
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corecodeor every 50 steps19:57
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corecodeor so19:57
corecodeevery 1000 steps19:58
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TomaszDStskeeps, interesting read (mer included)
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Stskeeps'how to kill a project'? :P20:11
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DrGrovslonopotamus_: ok, that is great news then. thank you for the information :) i was just a bit scared about losing contacts, settings and messages.20:13
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StskeepsTomaszD: good article20:14
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DrGrovslonopotamus: i recommend you to install that theme. it is stunning, it is a greyish theme with a beautiful yet elegant style.20:14
TomaszDStskeeps, indeed it is20:14
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jebbathis would be rad to have on n900
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Stskeepsjebba: did you need ssc daemon on fedora too for ofono?20:16
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DrGrovthe best thing to shut down the phone is to make sure that nothing is running in the background?20:17
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StskeepsTomaszD: that i do believe meego is the way to go is another thing.. even though things look murky atm20:17
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jebbaStskeeps: i could build ofono for fedora and run it. I could turn on the device and poll it's state and such. I couldnt make a call ever though.20:20
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Stskeepsjebba: ok, ta20:20
jebbai wasn't running anything non-free to use ofono there20:20
jebbaSMS doesn't work yet (neither under fedora nor maemo)20:21
Stskeepscould you file a bug for phonet-utils pretty please?20:21
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TomaszDStskeeps, btw, I've heard you had a broken freerunner laying around?20:21
Stskeepsthink it is a slam dunk case for openening20:21
jebbaa "please open up phonet-utils" bug?20:21
StskeepsTomaszD: yes, broken usb connector20:21
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Stskeepsjebba: yes20:21
TomaszDah, well, if you don't need the phone anymore, you know my address :P20:22
jebbaok, what about battery? Is there one open there? Where's the authoritative list right now, if you have it handy?20:22
Stskeepsbattey is in progress.. #9314 i think20:22
Stskeepssearch for bme20:22
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Stskeepsgoogle for licensing change requests20:23
StskeepsTomaszD: if you think you can fix it you can have it20:23
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gouverneurbug 931420:23
povbotBug relicense BME20:23
Lumpio-BME? o_O20:25
gouverneurStskeeps: I would take any n900 in any condition for free20:25
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ptlI just used Zephyr HxM20:25
ptlit's nice20:25
ptlused it with eCoach20:26
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ptlhave any of you seen smoku around? I'd like to thank him for PCSX20:27
TomaszDsmoku doesn't hang around here20:27
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ShadowJKluke-jr, *sigh*, trickle charging a Li-Ion is insane. makes things go boom20:28
luke-jrShadowJK: o rly?20:29
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luke-jrShadowJK: maybe I'd better stay away from the charging algos :)20:29
ShadowJK"lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days. Typically, the charge kicks in when the open terminal volt20:29
ShadowJKage drops to 4.05V/cell and turns off at a high 4.20V/cell.20:29
TomaszDgouverneur, we're talking about the freerunner, not the n900 :)20:29
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ptlShadowJK: does that mean that I shouldn't be regularly recharging my n900 for hours?20:30
ptlShould I do a quick recharge then unplug?20:30
ShadowJKptl, you're missing context20:30
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ShadowJKNokia devices do not trickle-charge. Luke wanted to change bme so that they trickle charge.20:31
* ptl doesn't know what is trickle-charge and will google for it now20:31
ShadowJKptl, trickle charge = keeping the battery constantly topped up20:31
ShadowJKluke-jr, so basically Li-Ion has "easier" charging rules/algorithm than, say, Nickel Metalhydride (nimh), but Li-Ion is very intolerant of deviations from it20:33
ptlat the same level of self-discharging... just saw on wikipedia20:33
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alturiakheya. yesterday, I've been offered a choice wether I want my N900 to switch to 3G automatically or not. I can't find this option anywhere in the settings, would anyone be so kind as to give me a clue where to look for it or do I have to switch off my wifi-network to trigger the popup again? ;-)20:34
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ShadowJKluke-jr, overcharging causes plating of metallic lithium, and overdischarge causes copper shunts to form, which cause partial or total electric shorts. When you apply power across a short, it generates heat. There is a mechanical device connecting the battery to the battery terminals, that disconnects at a certain temperature. However, this doesn't work reliably when there's a localized short inside the battery that generates a very local thermal hotspot.20:37
ShadowJK It's like a spark that ignites it all, and Li-Ion goes into "thermal runaway" at pretty low temperatures..20:37
ShadowJKalterego, Setup -> Phone, scroll down20:37
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luke-jrShadowJK: I don't get what that has to do with trickle charging :p20:38
ShadowJKluke-jr, well you don't want metal inside the battery either ;-)20:39
ShadowJKBut you said earlier you wanted to change battery low behaviour20:39
ShadowJKA batter goal would be to make bme handle old batteries better. As it is, when a battery is fully charged it assumes it has as much energy as the battery had as new. Then when it runs out (or comes to the battery low warning threshold), it comes as a total surprise to the meter (and the user)..20:41
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ptlwhat would be a good math package for the N900? Like an equation solver and plotter?20:44
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DrGrovAnyone know where to find news about Enlightenment 17 coming for Maemo?20:46
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DrGrovWould appreciate to find some information to see a timeline or something similar..20:47
gouverneurTomaszD: ok keep it... could get some 4 free already... for a reason...20:49
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ShadowJKluke-jr, let's hope only lawyers read that bugzilla report ;)20:52
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luke-jrShadowJK: don't see how it matters20:54
luke-jrShadowJK: at least with code, I can avoid modifying the algorithms20:54
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jebbaStskeeps: ah you see sivan's recent message to -devel. Perhaps have him do the phonet-* ticket  ;)(20:57
Stskeepshis is a bit higher up in layers though20:57
FIQthere's a category in the package manager named "Program"20:58
FIQwhat excactly does that one contains?20:58
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ShadowJKdo you have extras-testing or extras-devel active?20:58
FIQisn't everything (except kernels, libs, etc) "programs" in repositories?20:59
ShadowJKI'd suspect your "Program" category goes away if you disabled extras-devel and extras-testing20:59
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FIQwell, it doesn't really annoy me, just wonder why. :P21:02
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pupniki kind of like the NSA saving my words and clicks.  it is a kind of immortality21:16
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thopiekarwho of you said that under diablo the virtual package python-dev is available?21:19
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alturiakShadowJK: oh, thanks. (your completion misfired, so no highlight, hence the delay :)21:24
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fkaostichello, how can i change the volume while using the webbrowser?21:29
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kaiewill nokia keep n810 up to date by publishing a newer microb release for n810 ?21:29
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kaiefor example, the release shipped with n900 backported to n810 ?21:30
threshn810 is already not supported21:30
lizardothopiekar: for diablo compatibility , you should use : Build-Depends: python-dev|python2.5-dev    ...21:30
Stskeepskaie: not really likely, but mer^2 may bring something like it..21:30
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thopiekarjep I should add that..21:31
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kaieStskeeps, what's mer^2 ?21:33
* thopiekar added now canola-twitter21:33
Stskeepskaie: backport of fremantle to n8x021:33
kaiethresh, "already not supported", did nokia say that?21:33
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: , - fixable/not fixable with solder?21:34
SpeedEvilEverything is fixable with solder. Sometimes you have to use a large bar to club the problems over the head though.21:35
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SpeedEvilAnd yes, looks easily fixable21:35
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: please join #openmoko :-)21:35
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lcukStskeeps, its smt would be easier with a jet solder unit21:35
SpeedEvilNone of the pads have lifted off.21:36
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: ok :P21:36
SpeedEvilhangon - that's not21:36
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Stskeepsyes, that's not a n90021:36
SpeedEvilThat's no moon!21:36
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: yes, but honestly I'd like to share this with other users on either #openmoko or #openmoko-cdevel21:37
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: yes, of course21:37
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kaiemaybe my thinking is unrealistic, but I'd have expected nokia to keep shipping updates of the primary software of an internet tablet (the browser) without requiring to wait for the community to backport newer OS releases21:39
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WizzupDoes the n900 have a hard reset button?21:40
kaiea 2 year support period seems too short21:40
Stskeepskaie: the amazing thing is that the thing still works :P21:40
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lcukkaie, there are the first signs of community ssu happening :)21:40
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Stskeepsyes, community ssu is actually working21:40
kaieStskeeps, why shouldn't it still work if I don't break it?21:41
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JaffaEv'ning, all21:42
lcukkaie, open source, open community - as long as the trend to opening the code up continues you could theoretically still be getting updates in another 2 years21:42
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Stskeepskaie: check out mwkn.net21:42
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MohammadAGWizzup, no21:42
lcukhi jaffa21:43
WizzupIt's stuck on 25 load21:43
Wizzup 20:41pm  up   3:41,  0 users,  load average: 27.40, 24.81, 17.2721:43
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kaieStskeeps, do you expect the nwkn project will build latest microb for installing on n810 ?21:44
lcukwhich clients keep having to signin uncloaked, then change21:44
lcuklike crashanddie and i believe timelesses does it too21:44
Stskeepskaie: it's a news site21:44
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TomaszDactually that's a damn good question, leaving out the nwkn bit21:46
StskeepsTomaszD: it should technically be possible but probably needs alignment with UI.21:47
TomaszDthat's what I was thinking21:48
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Jaffakaie: Specifically is what Stskeeps was referring to, I think21:49
* Noobmonk3y_ waves21:49
kaiethanks, I now understand what and community ssu is about. making it actually possible to produce community builds that can overwrite the builtin software (e.g. microb).21:50
timeless_mbphi kaie21:51
kaiestill, someone would need to do the work to actually backport microb-n900 to n81021:51
cehtehmicrob isnt open source or?21:51
timeless_mbpkaie: i think romaxa had a backport21:51
timeless_mbpcehteh: microb is sadly useless21:52
timeless_mbpbecause it's kinda like webkit21:52
timeless_mbpw/o a front end, you have nothing21:52
Stskeepsengine's oss21:52
Stskeepsui not so much21:52
timeless_mbpthe intention of the browser team was to open source the ui21:52
timeless_mbphowever management made life incredibly painful21:52
cehtehthe engine is gecko .. but no xul, but custom gtk frontend21:52
timeless_mbpin addition to the custom gtk frontend21:52
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timeless_mbpthere's a transport layer (neteal) which also was never opened21:53
kaietimeless_mbp, it would be good to have that backport published, but I may be misunderstanding. I'm worried you say, the backport won't be sufficient, because the matching UI will be missing21:53
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* slonopotamus wonders how much n800 screen replace costs21:53
cehtehprolly more than a used n800 on ebay21:53
timeless_mbpkaie: we had to evolve eal and browser-ui as we evolved microb to add stuff21:54
timeless_mbpwhich means an older browserui doesn't work21:54
* slonopotamus doesn't veleive in local snail-mail, so ebay is a no-no21:54
kaietimeless_mbp, I see, thanks. which probably means, a full OS upgrade (fremantle backport) is the only likely chance to benefit from most recent microb code21:54
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timeless_mbpit's fairly standalone21:55
timeless_mbpwe use very little platform stuff21:55
slonopotamuskaie: i'd better add ui tweaks to chromium than messed with microb.21:55
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timeless_mbpand we have ifdefs so we can build on diablo21:55
cehtehfremantle on n800 ... how much memory does it have?21:55
luke-jrmicrob has its own engine now? O.o21:55
Stskeepscehteh: 128m21:56
timeless_mbpwe just need someone who can get tablet-browser* and neteal opened21:56
Stskeepswell, or tried to rebuild it on diablo21:56
cehtehah i thought 64 or even less ... 128 may barely work21:56
slonopotamuskaie: since chromium runs on n8x0 with reasonable speed and memory usage without any hacks.21:56
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: i can probably play around with building stuff in the fremantle sdk21:56
Stskeepsdiablo sdk21:57
ptlis there a chromium port for maemo?21:57
timeless_mbpfwiw, i'm watching #airmozilla right now, so this is a bad time for me :)21:57
kaietimeless_mbp, you say it could be done, but you're forbidden to do it, because of non-coding decisions21:57
slonopotamusptl: no hildonised one, however it shouldn't be hard to since chromium uses gtk.21:58
timeless_mbpkaie: roughly21:58
ArkenkloLinux is awesome because I can buy a bluetooth keyboard, create a custom ordinary X11 keymap with the (dvorak) map I want, write a scipts that associates that keymap with the keyboard upon connection, install firefox, install the vimperator firefox addon and then finally surf in my phone identically in every way (except screensize) to how I surf an my desktop.21:58
timeless_mbpforbidden isn't quite the right word21:58
timeless_mbpthe code is owned by nokia, not us21:58
Stskeeps'no resources'21:58
timeless_mbpas such, we can't release it w/o approval from someone21:58
timeless_mbpgetting that approval generally requires a business case21:58
ptlslonopotamus: but only maemo 4, right?21:59
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ptlI mean21:59
ptlthe existing one is not for maemo 522:00
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kaietimeless_mbp, ok, if you need a business case, tell the managers: If Nokia puts internet tablet hardware to end of life, by no longer updating the included internet browser software, I won't buy more internet devices from nokia, because I want a longer lifetime than 2 years.22:00
timeless_mbpkaie: that case doesn't work well22:00
timeless_mbpimagine we sold 5 770s22:01
timeless_mbpimagine we sold 25 n800s22:01
timeless_mbpimagine we sold 100 n810s22:01
timeless_mbpimagine we sold 1000 n900s22:01
* ptl imagined all this22:01
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timeless_mbplosing 1% of our base from a smaller base22:01
timeless_mbpis sadly entirely uninteresting to our bean-counters22:01
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kaieit may be a small total number, but you lose the trust of the early adaptors22:01
kaiethat may be of more interest to them22:02
timeless_mbplook, i'm not saying i disagree w/ your opinion22:02
timeless_mbpi am saying that we've internally raised this opinion22:02
timeless_mbpand they don't give a ****22:02
kaieyes, I totaly understand that you don't disagree :-)22:02
kaiethanks for having tried!22:02
timeless_mbpand sadly, from a bean-counting perspective, they aren't wrong22:02
timeless_mbpyou're giving the wrong argument22:02
timeless_mbpbetter arguments include:22:02
timeless_mbp1. lawsuits22:02
timeless_mbp2. negative press22:03
timeless_mbp3. negative word of mouth22:03
timeless_mbp4. active boycotts22:03
SpeedEvil5. throwing excrement at executives.22:03
timeless_mbp— i'm not endorsing any of the above :)22:03
* microlith boggles as his N900 ceases responding to screen taps but continues to run22:04
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kaiethe missing updates for n810 have already driven me to go path 4, I'm not going to buy an n900 unless I can see update support22:05
SpeedEvilmicrolith: sshing in can be useful - see what top says22:05
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microlithSpeedEvil: can't do that at the moment, phone was on edge and not wifi22:06
microlithseems to have gotten over it22:06
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SpeedEvilcpu-meter is also useful22:07
lcukthe best case is by supporting and giving extremely POSITIVE reaction en-masse to the community ssu and by getting developers of current community n900 only apps to also backport their own titles22:07
lcukand gain momentum that way22:07
microlithat the time it was in the task switcher22:07
microlithso the meter wasn't visible22:07
lcuktimeless_mbp, kaie ^^22:08
lcukoffer backports to the open source components in our n900 - theres a lot of code in gitorious22:08
lcuktheres a lot that can be done without complaint and if you want to see something on your 8x0 then get involved22:09
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kaielcuk, my point is simple, nokia still supports maemo, still supports microb. All I ask for is a software update of microb, which is the most important piece of software, and it's maintained by nokia, not by the community, so I expect action from nokia22:10
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kaieI don't think community momentum influences nokia's decision to backport microb or not22:11
lcukkaie, timeless is correct in everything he has said, moving mountains just because of a few random irc comments gets us nowhere22:11
lcukbut if involvement in backporting is something because eeryone else is - then it becomes easier22:11
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lcukin the past there have been similar efforts for getting later oses onto older devices - mostly undertaken by the developers themselves22:12
pupnikthe correct irc comments arew correctr22:13
lcukthe hacker editions22:13
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lcukkaie, getting mindshare into all the silent developers over there >>>>> and building momentum for it would be the only way and if those same developers all rolled up and said "actually we have with minimal changes managed to backport a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j" can we release it to the community22:14
lcukit becomes a bit better22:14
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kaielcuk, you're talking about a thing that might happen or not. Why should I wait longer and hope? I don't understand why this would be necessary. I can use most software on n810 fine. It seems to work fine in most areas. I like the fact that a lot of software is available. The community appears to work.22:16
kaieIt's just the primary software that doesn't get updates22:16
kaieif romaxa was able to backport microb already, nokia should simply allow to get it completed and publish it, that's it22:17
lcukhow do you get it to users?22:17
timeless_mbplcuk: getting it to users is doable22:17
timeless_mbpthere are dozens of ways to break the apt seal22:17
timeless_mbpthe only obstacle is getting past lawyers22:18
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lcuki na sustainable way22:18
kaielcuk, I made a pidgin package once and made it available over http, and users found it, because usual maintainer was distracted22:18
kaie(luckily pidgin is maintained again)22:18
ali12341getting it to users is trivial, you make a "backports" repository, job done22:18
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* MohammadAG 's N900 screen makes a crackling sound22:18
kaielcuk, so I think these are 2 separate steps. get the software done, then find a way to distrubute. and I agree that the community ssu you mentioned is a good thing22:18
lcukits being done - the first signs of community ssu are coming22:18
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lcukand we can populate it with more22:19
Vrathawhat does "community ssu" mean22:21
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lizardothopiekar: may I ask why did you upload python-central to diablo ?22:21
JaffaVratha: Updates to the OS, via the same mechanism Nokia used, to upgrade OS-provided packages like modest22:21
Vrathaah, thanks22:21
thopiekarlizardo: to build python-twitter22:21
thopiekarlizardo: was that not a good idea?22:22
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lizardothopiekar: you could at least have checked in that the package is already in fremantle...22:23
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lizardothopiekar: so you could have reused the same packaging (and dropped the "ubuntu" suffix) ... usually it would be nice if you have dropped an e-mail to the pymaemo-developers mailing list :)22:25
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thopiekarmailto: ?22:26
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lizardothopiekar: it is a mailing list :  given that you touched a packaged already maintained by someone else (the PyMaemo team) it is polite to discuss there first before uploading the package... unfortunately the autobuilder does not check for "maintainership"22:27
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thopiekarahh ok22:28
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thopiekarso what should I write there? sorry but I uploaded a package that you maintain on diablo?22:28
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lizardothopiekar: "I need package xyz on Diablo, but it is only on fremantle ... any problem if I upload it to diablo too?"22:30
thopiekarlizardo: just happend :/22:31
Stskeepswhat'd you break now, thopiekar?22:31
lizardothopiekar: yes, that is past now :)22:31
thopiekarnothing :D22:31
thopiekarjust packaging plugins for canola and resolving it's deps..22:32
lizardothopiekar: the rule of thumb is : before attempting to upload package xyz to diablo, check if it not yet on fremantle, and kindly contact the current maintainer with regards to your plans to upload the package22:32
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lizardojust a tip anyway :)22:32
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pupnikgod DAMN it, where is the BEL char in N900 xterm??22:34
thopiekaris there anyone of the pymaemo guys here.. don't wanna write the mail now ;)22:35
lizardothopiekar: try #pymaemo ;)22:35
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SpeedEvilpupnik: ctrl-g?22:36
pupnikno bel22:36
SpeedEvilOh noes!22:36
SpeedEvilSubmit a bug.22:36
pupnikmaybe i can fix.. stty -a is informative22:37
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pupnik /msg SpeedEvil beep ... NOT!22:39
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: console-beep isn't very common to work ootb in non-console (aka xterm) shells22:43
DocScrutinizerprobably maemo-xterm simply doesn't support it22:44
Arkenklospeaking of which, doesn't the n900 have regular consoles?22:44
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DocScrutinizerseen chvt22:44
Arkenkloreally? it does?22:45
DocScrutinizerfor sure it has at least *one* - via rs232 on debug testpoints under battery22:45
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SpeedEvilOr you could do console on BT-serial22:46
DocScrutinizeror on USB22:46
* DocScrutinizer checks out chvt :-P22:47
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Arkenklonah, it sez can't open console22:47
Arkenklonot that suprised22:47
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DocScrutinizerchvt 3 killed input :-P22:48
Arkenklowhoah, hang on. it hung22:48
DocScrutinizerlet's see if I can recover via ssh :-D22:48
Arkenklowhat tty is x on? it's not 722:49
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ali123411 or 222:49
Arkenklo2 indeed22:50
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ArkenkloI guess the kernel has got framebuffer disabled22:50
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* Noobmonk3y_ feels refreshed 22:53
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andre__<adv> Bugday right now in #maemo-bugs . Feel free to join and say hello to the Bugsquad.</adv>22:54
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* shamus just found mclock and likes it but wishes that it had more features and liked not runign full screen better as when non fullscren lost of the text is clipped off screen22:56
shamuswould make a slick home screen aplet22:57
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DocScrutinizerfor a strange reason I had to switch to chvt 4,5,6,7,8 and then to 2. to revive it. switching between 1,2,3 only made screen go black for 2, but no input22:58
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Funnyfacehmm I've had my N900 in my pocket today without any apps running, and without a data connection, but the battery drained just about as fast as it does when I have IM stuff up for an entire day. I am not connected to a wifi network, but it shows some bars to the right of the battery icon, would that mean the wifi adapter is turned on?23:02
Funnyfacehow can I make sure that wifi is actually turned completely off, rather than being just disconnected from an access point?23:03
SpeedEvilare they two little bars that vary in size?23:03
ArkenkloFunnyface: is *all* data turned off? I've read 3g uses a lot of juice23:03
mikhasFunnyface, look at your i-net settings. I think it scans for wireless every * min by default23:03
Funnyface"Internet connection: Not connected"23:04
mikhasno, in the config screen23:04
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Funnyfaceit's set to "never" :P23:04
mikhasand does it auto-connect to wifi?23:05
Funnyfacenope, it's set to "always ask"23:05
mikhaswell, then you'll have no extra batt drainage from that one, ok23:06
Funnyfacecould it be because I used the "wifieye" application?23:06
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mikhasI dont know this app, sorry23:06
ArkenkloFunnyface: try turning off 3g for a day23:06
SpeedEvil - random. For those in the UK. Ordnance survey consultation on opening up some of their data. Closes tomorrow.23:06
Funnyfaceit's some app that displays wifi networks, their signal strength and which channels they are on23:07
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FunnyfaceI haven't run a 3G connection at all today23:07
Arkenkloalledgedly when it can't get a solid 3g connection it's constantly connecting and reconnecting23:07
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Funnyfaceor well, it sits there idle, not connected, just displaying the signal strength of 3G, but that's normal for all phones :P23:07
SpeedEvilwifieye I would suspect to cause that sort of problem23:08
SpeedEvilOr rather any wifi scanner, not uniquely that one23:08
Arkenklonah, I think it automatically connects to 3g if available, even if there's no current data usage23:09
Funnyfaceyep. I am suspecting that the wifi is turned on, while not being connected to an access point23:09
ArkenkloFunnyface: you can always issue an "ifconfig wlan0 down" to manually disable it23:09
Arkenkloas root, of course23:10
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FunnyfaceI'll try connecting to my access point, then disconnect to see if that solves the problem :P23:10
Funnyfaceand I haven't bothered with root access yet23:10
Funnyfacejust had this device for 4 days or so23:10
SpeedEvilyeah - took me a while too.23:11
SpeedEvilIt  was a good 10 minutes for me.23:11
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Funnyfaceyes I checked some web page explaining how to do it, seems easy, just haven't bothered yet :P23:11
Arkenklothere's a package called "rootsh", you just install it and run the command "root" in xterm23:12
Arkenklowe are talking about the n900, right?23:12
Funnyfacewell I guess I can go ahead and do it right away23:12
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Arkenklowell then, you only need to install that one package, iirc it's in extras23:13
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mfinkleI can use to find out if my current connection is wifi or not23:16
mfinklebut how do I check to see if I am "roaming" or not?23:16
Arkenklomfinkle: do you mean connected via gsm/3g?23:16
mfinkleArkenklo: yes, connected via gsm, but roaming outside my provider (so I get charged a lot more)23:17
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Arkenklomfinkle: oh, no idea23:17
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Funnyfaceoh well, my sorry adhoc network is acting shit today, so no rootsh today.. :\23:23
Funnyfaceadhoc + vista ICS doesn't work well..23:23
DocScrutinizerbyebye wifieye23:24
DocScrutinizerbtw: 28h now, *with* wifi, SIP, and email poll -- lshall says bat is at 44%23:26
pupnikand black screen right23:26
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toolshi all.. is it easy / possible to get a n900 with a quertz keyboard in germany?23:26
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DocScrutinizermost of the time - yes of course23:27
pupniktools: that is all you get afaik23:27
toolsah - cool :-)23:27
DocScrutinizertools: get one with a US qwetry and we'll swap and you get 50 bucks on top23:27
pupnikpoor DocScrutinizer23:28
toolsouch - sorry - wrong way put23:28
toolsI actuall _do_ want one with a qwerty keyboard23:28
DocScrutinizerpoor tools23:29
pupnikcan he order from .uk?23:29
DocScrutinizerprolly he could23:29
toolstechnically yes - but23:29
toolsactually my employer will get it and they prefer to buy from big, reputable german stores...23:30
* pupnik sauft frankfurter appelwoi23:30
Funnyfaceifconfig wlan0 down, it disconnected me from the access point, but the bars are still displaying..23:30
DocScrutinizerwhich bars?23:30
toolsanybody knows such a shop where the sell them with a qwerty keyboard?23:31
pupniktell your employer you are the one who needs satisfactio here23:31
pupnikreturns to are no problem23:31
toolsI know and can - but don't want to push things too far..23:31
Funnyfacethe wifi signal strength bars (or at least that's what I think they are)23:31
* lupine_85 has a qwerty one23:31
DocScrutinizertools: maybe we can join efforts to get qwerty keycaps replacement23:32
DocScrutinizerit's rather easy to replace23:32
toolsyou can get them from alternate for EUR 490,- afair - not sure what they cost in UK - but I would guess a lot more23:32
DocScrutinizerjust not that easy to get23:32
toolsDocScrutinizer: aha23:32
* tools is interested..23:32
pupnikhey i was just in alternate store.  bastards didny have one on display23:33
* pupnik will visit again23:33
toolspupnik: right - that's the other point23:33
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toolsalternate and some other bigger shops don't have them in stock atm23:33
pupnikdemand is high?23:34
DocScrutinizertools: www.klc.fi23:34
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toolsany big shop in germany which likely has them in stock atm?23:34
lupine_85tools: £46023:35
lupine_85with the current rate of the £, that's not so bad23:35
dreginO2 in Ireland are selling it sim free for €44023:35
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SpeedEvilWow. I think 'blocks' - is sponsored by screen protector makers23:37
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toolsDocScrutinizer: okay - the hard part is probably speaking finish or so :-)23:37
embeddedHi all23:37
DocScrutinizertools: yep23:37
DocScrutinizerN900 QWERTY KEYMAT ENGLISH 265740   14€23:38
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embeddedhey guys, who use Esbox to debug applications on N900 target?23:39
DocScrutinizeralso N900 TOUCH WINDOW ASSY 2691V9 55€ :-) -- better than screen protector for 20€23:39
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: indeed. Now all it needs is for some clever person to come up with a SAW diamond-fronted variant :)23:40
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toolshmm - won't order right now but will come back to you - or - in case you got news pm me23:40
toolsDocScrutinizer: ^23:40
toolsanother question: when using the phone moderately (no gps, no wireless, no umts and let's say 30m of calls per day) - what battery life time do I get roughly?23:43
toolswith all possible powersave modes in action?23:44
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toolsof cause also no movies / music, etc23:44
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embeddedtools: about 3 days23:44
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toolshmm - that's little.. any way to extend that?23:45
toolslike in bigger battery23:45
SpeedEvilWhy not charge at night?23:45
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toolspossibly - but I don't like the idea of always having to care about the charger as soon as I leave the house for a (long) weekend23:46
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embeddedyeah..or bought another battery for backup23:46
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SpeedEvilor just take a USB lead - if you're in range of computers.23:46
toolshow much do they cost roughly and any idea if they are available in Germany?23:46
toolsUSB lead sounds good23:46
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Arif_buy a 3rd battery!23:47
SpeedEvilUSB lead doesn't charge very fast - but it's done after ~3h even with the display on23:47
embeddedindeed I read somewhere that there is an asian battery manufacturer that will ship soon a battery for N900 of 2400 mAh :)23:47
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embeddedthat compared to the actual one is not so bad23:47
Arif_embedded, yeah, it'll make your N900 twice the size ;D23:47
Arif_you could beat someone up with it !23:47
embeddedeheh :>23:48
toolsbut you'll have to use a headset because otherwise the phone may blow-up in your face :-)23:48
embeddedtwice the weight23:48
Arif_tools, why not juggle around with 6 batteries23:48
ali12341if the n900 battery was twice as thick, the whole thing would be same size as my old phone (which lasted for 4 days on a 1250mah battery)23:48
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Arif_I managed to kill the N95 8GB's battery in 25 minutes23:49
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ds3Arif_: axe or hammer? :D23:49
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toolsArif_: did you use it to boil a cup of tea? :-)23:49
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Arif_I was streaming radio over 3G with equalizer on23:50
Arif_that eq does some mad things to the phone :D23:50
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thopiekarcould someone test the twitter plugin at diablo?23:50
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lmourathopiekar, about python-gobject, no we won't put it in diablo because it's already there, but as python2.5-gobject23:51
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lmouraso, you'll need to change the dependencies23:51
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thopiekarahh ok lmoura23:52
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* Arif_ sneezes23:52
lmourathopiekar, all pymaemo packages in diablo starts with python2.523:52
lmouradue to the old packaging scheme23:52
Arif_I let my phone fly through half the bus today23:52
marmouteArif_: I hope you did forget to run the game before !23:53
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moudmenGood evening, I have an n900 and I'm having a little problem with incoming calls. Say I have an incoming call from contact X, and this contact X has a registered home phone number and a registered mobile phone number. The 'incoming call' screen does not let me know where this contact X is calling from (no icon for home phone/mobile phone or phone number are shown). Is there any known way that can help me with this issue?23:53
Arif_good thing someone caught it23:53
thopiekarso could someone test the plugin and give some feedback tomorrow at #canola? thank.. I have to leave again..23:54
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thopiekarsee ya23:54
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redmoudmen: you could duplicate the contact if you really need to make a distinction between the two call numbers perhaps23:55
moudmenyes this is the only way i have found to solve this, but it's pretty unprofessional and annoying23:55
redname other Name (Gsm) and other Name (Home) and put numbers accordingly23:55
moudmenyup, true23:55
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redyeah unpractical23:55
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redbut thats what you get for buying N90023:56
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reda whole lotta unpractical.23:56
moudmeni haven't done this in 9 years ever since contact cards didn't support more than 1 phone number23:56
redi still have my nokia ringo somewhere23:56
redcould only store 9 numbers there23:56
redand it had 3 ringtones!23:57
redand and, it made phantom calls without gui lighting up, even with keypad locked23:57
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redgot busted for drinking when underaage due that, called my sister and she ratted me out to parents :p23:57
moudmeni still have my old ericsson, somewhere too, forgot what model it was but it's a tank23:57
pupnikyaay yaaaay.  javis ported picodrive!23:57
moudmenfell from the 3rd floor down to the streets, and just a tiny scratch23:58
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moudmenhahahaha, phantom calls?23:58
moudmennever heard of these23:58
redit just decided to randomly open a connection to any of the 9 contacts stored23:59
redat it's own whim23:59
redcouldn't see it was calling23:59
redno indication23:59
redjust suddenlly hear a person starting to talk23:59
redif the phone was near you on a table or something23:59
DocScrutinizertools: shipping is cheap in, and there's no minimum order value. So I'll go ordering a keymat and 2 stylii right now23:59
moudmenwell, you can still do that, with n95 8gb, just without calling... you'll only get to the contacts when keypad is locked23:59
moudmenthat's pretty weird too23:59

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