IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-03-11

ShadowJKlupine_85, I mean there's no reliable way to enumerate devices on a i2c bus00:00
pH5javispedro: do you also see a lot of errors like this: "PVR_K:(Error): Failed to find offset struct (KVAddress=c89bd000)" (from mmap.c) in dmesg?00:00
pH5hm, and I wonder where to connect for blizzard display refresh - OMAPLCD IRQ reqeuests fail, but I guess that is natural.00:01
RST38hVDVsx: what is the size of the HAM icon embedded into control file, again?00:01
StskeepspH5: did you remember adjusting DMA size stuff?00:01
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: in this case we got the I2C bus to probe (from BME kernel stuff) and we know there shall be two devices at least00:01
VDVsxRST38h, 48x4800:01
pH5Stskeeps: I flashed the provided kernel. Where do I find the DMA size patch?00:02
StskeepspH5: sec00:02
RST38hVDVsx: Ack00:02
StskeepspH5: if you flashed kernel that should be there00:02
RST38hVDVsx: and Maemo4 is 26x26?00:02
pH5Stskeeps: just in case I build my own. but I guess I can find this info in one of the >50 talk thead pages sometime?00:03
lupine_85ah, yes00:03
DocScrutinizer51SpeedEvil: you said you had a look. Found anything noteworthy?00:03
StskeepspH5: yes, trying to find it for you :)00:03
pH5this thing is huge :)00:03
lupine_85turns out it was GPIO, not I2C, anyway00:03
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lupine_85'though I'm extremely fuzzy when it comes to these things00:03
pH5Stskeeps: thanks!00:04
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I've been reading random bits of datasheets.00:04
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: not got up the energy to do systematic investigation.00:04
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* lupine_85 has built the default kernel, yay00:05
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SpeedEvillupine_85: did it boot?00:05
lupine_85I have no idea yet00:05
RST38h"A furious lesbian who broke her [deep breath] lover's ex-husband's sister's boyfriend's legs by deliberately mowing him down in a car was jailed on Tuesday"00:05
lupine_85haven't got that far ;)00:06
SpeedEvilThat's a lot of levels of indirection to get angry through00:07
lcukRST38h, that sounds like something kevin bacon would tell people00:08
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SpeedEvilRST38h: wacky00:08
SpeedEvilRST38h: that's ...00:08
SpeedEvilRST38h: 5 miles away?00:08
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* RST38h can see SpeedEvil silently going over the list of his friends/relatives, just in case00:09
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javispedropH5: I get that message often, usually when creating/deleting egl contexts00:10
SpeedEvilRST38h: I do know a henderson family00:10
SpeedEvilI'm unsure if they're related to the defendant00:10
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SpeedEvilIt's unlikely.00:11
SpeedEvil(there are ~60000 people in kirkcaldy)00:11
lupine_85RST38h: I'm guessing the "furious lesbian" broke up with the lover to go out with the lover's ex-husband's sister, who then went straight and got a boyfriend00:11
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RST38hlupine: I am kinda afraid to guess00:12
lupine_85sounds like the kind of thing that might happen00:12
RST38hthe headline alone has been enough, really...00:12
* lupine_85 belatedly discovers a custom kernel is extras that has ipv600:13
lupine_85let's give that a try...00:13
DocScrutinizerI know the victim's mother's sister's ex-lover's son's university room mate00:13
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SpeedEvilRST38h: I'm really unhappy about a 3 year 9 month sentance - which may result in under 2 years of time served - if she behaves00:13
Stskeepscan't we add bacon to this discussion tomorrow? :P00:14
SpeedEvilFor what was basically attempted murder00:14
Stskeepser, too00:14
SpeedEvilI got a large online shop delivered today.00:14
SpeedEvilThey diddn't deliver my bacon, though charging me for it.00:14
lupine_85no substitutions?00:15
pupniki confuse das and dass occasionally00:15
lupine_85zomg, it works00:15
lupine_85although, it seems to not want to pick up a global ip00:15
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SpeedEvillupine_85: I complained - and they're refunding my card - but...00:17
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lupine_85ah, radvd is no longer running for whatever reason00:18
lupine_85wonder if I should try to get dhcp6 working instead00:18
lupine_85nah, sac is... well... easier :D00:20
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lardman|awaypupnik: that's understandable00:21
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lardman|homeno double-entendre intended ;)00:22
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pupnikwonder how ADs tron game would run on  N90000:23
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* Arif_ wonders if the Unreal engine will be ported to the N900...00:25
pupniklardman|home: do you find n810 keybd unpleasant now?00:26
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pupnikfeels like poking a puppy in the eye to me00:26
RST38hoh shit, the mime types data files are still out of date00:26
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RST38hpupnik: is poking puppies in the eyes pleasant or not?00:27
Vrathait is not pleasant00:27
Vrathadogs are for rubs and hugs and love only00:28
DocScrutinizerto the puppy for sure it's not :-P00:28
lardman|homepupnik: I don't use it much nowadays, but there's certainly less feel00:28
Vrathaand also for picking up their poop and things00:28
lardman|homeno puppies involves!00:28
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pupnikit is refreshing going back to the larger screen, but irc isnt so fun00:29
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DocScrutinizermuhaha snow on Mallorca00:30
pupniklooks like n900 board has some free space above it for cooling00:30
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SpeedEvilmost cooling happens by conduction typically00:32
trip0i also happen by conduction00:32
* lardman|home wonders where the thermal transfer talk has come from...00:33
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SpeedEvil - I happen to have in my pastebuffer00:34
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lardman|homemmm vegemite :)00:35
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* pH5 gets tired of restarting mbxdaemon00:39
pH5good night00:39
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javispedronow he understand why everybody gets tired of it after playing for a few minutes with it :)00:39
SpeedEvilVegemite is a terrible idea.00:39
SpeedEvilClearly marmite is the right way to go.00:39
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RST38hhow do they compare in terms of heat transfer?00:40
lardman|homewell that's true, eat the vegemite, spread marmite somewhere00:40
lardman|homemarmite is runnier, so probably better in the short term00:40
lardman|homeat least compared to the vegemite I can get over here00:40
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RST38h"Now they're saying I groped a male staffer. Yeah, I did. Not only did I grope him, I tickled him until he couldn't breathe and four guys jumped on top of me." -- Eric Massa (D-NY)00:42
HydroxideRST38h: not that I don't find that a fascinating debacle (I do), but this is probably not the right channel :) if you're on OFTC as well I created #usa for such blather a couple of days ago - hopefully it will catch on at some point00:43
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GAN900RST38h, not that I've ever noticed.00:45
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GAN900RST38h, my heirarchy of WiFi reliability is Maemo > Mac OS X > Linux > Windows00:45
RST38hHydroxide: Sorry, it was way to weird to avoid pasting it =)00:46
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HydroxideRST38h: quite weird indeed :) I *did* say I find it fascinating and I wasn't being sarcastic... :)00:46
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HydroxideRST38h: next time he runs I won't give him any money00:46
RST38hGAN900: Very strange then: this poor MacOSX machine has never seen reliable wifi (with two different APs and all the patches)00:47
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Hydroxide(I did, once, to thank him for something I've forgotten now)00:47
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lupine_85ok, docs-to-go is a fail00:51
RST38hslow? or incompatble?00:51
javispedroif it 's anything like the palm version, it will be both :)00:52
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javispedrobut at least works ...00:52
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lupine_85slow, incompatible, non-free, has an eula, and requires registration00:52
* RST38h wonders why they have not implemented document editing. iPhone version apparently has that.00:52
lupine_85srsly d00d wtf?00:53
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javispedroRST38h: nearly all of their versions have editing support.00:53
lupine_85so I get a choice of koffice, abiword, or evubce00:54
lupine_85I don't mind exporting as PDF...00:54
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* lardman|home considers playing COD400:54
lardman|homeor rather MW200:55
* noobmonk3y_ waves00:55
Karlososhalo 3  is better00:55
noobmonk3y_w000p finally got my other laptop up and working on ubuntu :D00:55
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lardman|homeand actually I wasn't too fond of Halo when I played it on my cousins' XBox00:55
lupine_85dull game was dull :/00:55
Karlososi love it00:56
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lardman|homemultiplayer I guess is the appeal?00:56
lardman|homein which case new AvP looks cool00:56
lardman|homeI prefer coop00:56
lupine_85I do love being randomly cursed at by americans :)00:56
noobmonk3y_avp is a bit fraky lol00:56
noobmonk3y_gave me the jitters00:56
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lardman|homenoobmonk3y: ideal! :)00:57
Karlososhey noob00:57
* javis900 finds worlds slowest installer application... made in java and starving all other x11 clients00:57
noobmonk3y_hey Karlosos00:57
noobmonk3y_lo lardman  :D00:57
lardman|homewe used to play long into the night at Uni, was pretty freaky leaving after that - dark quiet and large buildings00:57 is playing with his Karmic Koala ;)00:57
Karlososhow do u private message00:57
noobmonk3y_did i say all of those names in my msg? lol00:58
noobmonk3y_oh no00:58
noobmonk3y_just xchat being odd00:58
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noobmonk3y_sorry - will stop talking to myself, promise ;)00:59
lardman|homeok chaps, will log off and play some MW2 sp, see you tomorrow00:59
Karlososi managed to flash my phone noob but i wasnt doing it wrong you need to do something differemt with vista00:59
noobmonk3y_have a good eve :D00:59
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noobmonk3y_lol - good old vista ;)00:59
noobmonk3y_but all is good in the land of the vista flashed n900? :D00:59
Karlososyeah wont accept above 40 characters in name00:59
noobmonk3y_ha! :P01:00
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Karlososthere is a thread on maemo chat got me flashing fine01:01
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noobmonk3y_yay to tmo! :D01:01
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:01
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* RST38h just gave his n900 extra 16GB of storage, as a present to his preciousssss =)01:05
noobmonk3y_mine still only has 8gb :(01:05
trip0how did you add 8 more gigs?01:05
noobmonk3y_it needs some more loving i feel01:05
noobmonk3y_card? lol01:05
RST38hIronically, I can now keep ALL of my data in a cell phone. If you can still call it a cell phone01:06
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derfI can't even come close.01:06
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Arif_mine has an empty SD slot!01:09
trip0mine too01:09
Arif_though I need one01:09
Arif_I have 500MB free ;D01:09
* SpeedEvil has a lowly 1G card in.01:09
trip0n900 is micro or mini sd?01:10
SpeedEvilThough I am currently looking at the IO lines it uses with speculation.01:10
Arif_why would you even bother with a 1G card :D01:10
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SpeedEvilArif_: it was spare.01:10
SpeedEvilArif_: and it's enough for backups01:10
lupine_85hmm, (how) can I change the password for 'user' ?01:10
trip0looks like 32 is the biggest you can get01:10
Arif_I have a lot of 2GB cards laying around for no reason01:10
SpeedEvil-> lupine_8501:10
Arif_trip0, those are pricey :(01:11
SpeedEviltrip0: yup - and expesnive ATM01:11
lupine_85"the password for user can't be changed"01:11
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RST38htrip0: 32GB cards are also very slow01:12
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RST38hThe 16GB class6 A-Data felt like a logical choice01:12
DocScrutinizerlupine_85: root; passwd user01:13
trip0oh, where on the filesystem are the user folders like Music/ Video?01:13
trip0i had a quick look in xterm but didn't find it in /home/usr01:13
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lupine_85will that break anything? :)01:14
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lupine_85well, done :)01:15
DocScrutinizerbut also won't fix anything01:15
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lupine_85it's quite annoying that I can't be lupine on my phone01:16
DocScrutinizerwell, you can ssh to user01:16
lupine_85maybe I should create a second user in /etc/passwd as lupine01:16
lupine_85same uid/gid as user01:16
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lupine_85and $HOME01:16
* lupine_85 does01:17
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lupine_85ooh, no /etc/shadow01:18
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lupine_85hmm, it all seems good...01:20
lupine_85yep. now I can log in without specifying the username :)01:21
lupine_85ooh, wow, and it's bash 2.001:22
lupine_85well, 2.05b01:22
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KlownerI asked earlier and nobody knew, buuuuuut, does anyone know of any examples or documentation which might lead me in the right direction to create a small daemon app which has a custom config section in the system config app?01:24
KlownerI've found a good example for the config part, but from what I can tell those are only loaded momentarily and then unloaded when the settings app is closed01:24
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dreginI assume the config widgets are just modifying system config files?01:25
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dreginwhy do you need a daemon to run?01:25
RST38hBy the way, gentlemen and ladies:
Klownerdregin: attempting to make a decent google latitude updater, I've got the guts of it written and I just need to maemoify it01:25
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Klownerso, a small app which listens to GPS fix events and then sends them to google, and a config frontend so the user can set their update interval and login creds01:26
javispedrois the "system settings app" the "hildon control panel"?01:27
Klownererr, yes01:27
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Klowner"Settings", the thing that pops up when you hit the little wrench icon01:27
javispedroi'd make the control panel applet toggle gconf settings,01:27
javispedroand the daemon listen to those settings.01:27
Klownerthat sounds like a good idea01:28
Klownerso all I need to determine now is how to start/stop the daemon01:28
javispedromost probably it needs a status bar applet01:29
Klowneroh that's an idea too01:29
javispedrosince it doesn't do much work the daemon could probably be entirely contained in a status bar applet / hildon-home process.01:29
dregincheck other init.d scripts to see how they run their services?01:30
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lupine_85dude, all my XMPP is going over IPv6 now!01:32
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RST38hOk, this Reader Play thing really hates vertical layout01:32
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javispedrothis reader play thing doesn't load here =)01:33
RST38hloads fine here01:34
javispedroI need a more ... uh, liberal browser.01:34
javispedrono, maxton.01:37
lupine_85Is there a page that talks about reducing memory usage on this thing?01:37
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dregindefine:"this thing"01:38
mikkovjavispedro: did you try tuxracer?01:39
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javispedromikkov: yeah, the interface rendering seems broken, but the game plays fine :)01:39
mikkovwould you be interested in fixing it? ;)01:40
javispedroheh :)01:40
mikkovthere's another gl game I have no tomatoes (and gltron)01:41
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RST38hmikkov: btw, pupnik has found a really cool space battle game, that reguires gl01:42
javispedroI cannot imagine what can cause this broken layout :)01:42
RST38hmikkov: Would you be interested to look at it?01:42
Lumpio-Wait a minute, how does that google reader thing work01:43
RST38hActually there are several ( but No Gravity is the one pupnik has found01:43
Lumpio-Where is it getting its data from o_O01:43
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shinkamuican anyone tell me if is down01:45
shinkamuior is it just a routing problem here01:45
shinkamuithanmks burchr didn't know about that01:46
shinkamuiquite handy :)01:46
mikkovRST38h: I'll take a look, but the screenshot looks too complex already :)01:46
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RST38hmikkov: Well, pupnik sweared they made that thing work on iPhone01:48
uhsfis there a Maemo version for x86 processors? or any way to run Maemo on a PC?01:48
RST38hmikkov: Oolite is written in ObjectiveC, so it is kinda no-go, but the rest might work01:49
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RST38huhsf: Why?01:49
mikkovRST38h: doesn't look like open source01:50
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uhsfRST38h: because i have a micropc and i would like to use maemo on it01:50
RST38huhsf: Try Moblin. Or Ubuntu mobile edition.01:50
dotblank3_9.10 UNR is a fine distro01:51
uhsfi could've thought of this myself any other suggestions?01:51
mikkov look better01:52
uhsfi don't like ubunutu and moblin never really caught on that's why it gets merged with maemo01:52
RST38hthey list a cvs url01:52
RST38huhsf <-- apparently somewhat confused01:52
* javispedro watches a set of SCREEN_HEIGHT = 480 defines in tuxrace01:52
uhsfRST38h: confused how?01:53
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ptlis there any way to tell Hildon Application Manager to update all things that need updating?01:54
lupine_85DocScrutinizer: I'm more interested in RAM than rootfs01:55
burchrclick title bar when it's listing updates01:55
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burchr'update all'01:55
ptloh, thanks01:55
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josephnexushi everyone02:13
josephnexusi've got my n900 now02:13
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josephnexusjust finished running all of the updates02:13
josephnexusi love over the air updates02:13
josephnexusmakes life easy for me02:13
josephnexusany hints on getting my gps to be happy though?02:14
josephnexusit doesn't seem to be connecting...02:14
rasterjosephnexus: i hope you have an unlimited data plan then :)02:14
josephnexusi'm on my wifi right now02:14
josephnexusand i will have an unlimited data plan when I get my sim card02:15
josephnexusright now it's just wifi though02:15
josephnexusbut it doesn't seem to be finding the gps02:15
rasteraaaah not sure "ota" .... is used for wifi based updates. - as a term02:15
rasterthough technically... it is "over the air" (no wires)02:15
josephnexusit tries for a while and then says it couldn't find it02:15
rasterota has been used primarily for updates via the phone network itself :)02:15
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josephnexusoh well02:16
josephnexuseither way... it says no gps signal02:16
josephnexusam I missing something?02:16
rasterfor gps - go outside02:16
josephnexusor is my house (all wood) some sort of barrier for gps?02:16
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rasterand dont be next to tall buildings ( > 2 storeys)02:16
rasterit can be a barrier02:16
rasteryou need a clear view of the sky02:16
josephnexusshould I be concerned when i'm in my car?02:17
rastergps signal is very weak02:17
* josephnexus wants to use the gps for car navigation...02:17
josephnexusis that possible?02:17
rasterthats why peole put them on the dashboard under the front windshield02:17
rasterbut yes - if you stick it on the back seat02:17
rasteror next to the gearbox gps will suffer or maybe drop out completely02:17
rasteralso rememebr "getting a gps lock" requires "better signal" than continues operation02:18
rasterbasically your gps unit is trying to download a chunk of data htat ius beamed very weakly, and slowly by all satellites02:18
josephnexusah, so getting the lock is more difficult than maintaining it yes?02:18
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josephnexusdoesn't this have agps?02:18
rasterit has to piece this all together to know what to do02:18
josephnexuswhich helps with that?02:18
rasteras such the data is sent in a loop - it may take a few minutes to loop around02:19
rasterif you "miss sections" u cant ask for a re-transmit02:19
rasteru have to wait until the next loop around02:19
rasterso having any interruption in signal while gettign a lock is going to cause trouble and it may take many minutes or even hours to get a lock02:19
josephnexusbut once it has it?02:19
rasteri dont know if it has agps02:19
rasteronce it has a lock - it works better02:20
rasterindoors you'll likely ifnd your accuracy drops - or gps singal drosp too if far enough inside02:20
rasterthe worse the signal (fewer satellites) the less accurate gps gets02:20
josephnexusbut outside or on my car dash it should be ok?02:20
josephnexusi know that02:20
rastereg it may then only be able to give a location within 500m02:20
rastercar dash should be ok02:21
rasteri guess02:21
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lupine_85speaking of which - is there anything (OSM-based?) I can replace Ovi Maps with?02:21
rasterbtw - ovi maps on the n90 download maps as u go02:21
rasterjust like google maps02:21
rasterso u'll need a working data connection for it02:22
rasterand a big enough data quota :)02:22
lupine_85ovi maps almost got me lost in london02:24
lupine_85"this way to your hotel!"02:24
lupine_85lying thing02:24
lupine_85well, let's see if it can direct me to my *yawn* bed02:24
trip0lupine_85, navit?02:25
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ptlna'vit is the navigator from the movie Avatar02:30
ptlthey used to locate these giant smurfs02:30
ptland their GPS-blocking tree02:31
* ml-mobile gets the ELC2010 announcement e-mail02:31
ml-mobilebut I really want to attend the collaboration summit02:32
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josephnexusi've got unlimited02:39
josephnexusso data shouldn't be a prolem02:39
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josephnexusmy only concern is that i'll mostly be on EDGE02:49
pupniknice of us military to share gps02:49
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josephnexusso i get to go at a mighty 12KBps02:50
ptlIf I got a good 3G coverage I'd also get unlimited02:50
uhsfi'd like to have meegoo now it sucks that maemo only runs on arm and not x8602:50
josephnexusmy son has hijacked my phone and is watching the wiggles on youtube02:51
josephnexus(he's almost 3)02:51
ptluhsf: with intel taking part on this, it'll surely run on x86 shortly02:51
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josephnexushe thinks the touch interface is nice02:51
josephnexusand better than a mouse02:51
ptluhsf: specially considering that meego will inherit the base part (kernel, base infrastructure) more from moblin than maemo02:52
rasterresistive touch tho is pretty horrible02:52
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ptljosephnexus: doesn't he have dirty fingers? 3 years old use to have02:52
josephnexusyes, but it comes with a clothe02:52
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josephnexusand i'm getting a protective, alex proof, coating02:52
ptland I have oily skin which makes me have greasy fingers, I don't like touch interface that much -- I tend to use the stylus02:53
trip0ptl, agreed02:53
trip0i also do the same02:53
trip0when i can...02:53
josephnexusshhh.... my son doesn't know about the stylus02:54
josephnexusand i don't want to have it lost within 4 hrs of having the phone02:54
trip0josephnexus, i'm more afraid he'll get used to the sylus and grab a pen to start drawing on the screen02:54
trip0my son is also almost 302:54
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josephnexusanother good reason for the coting02:54
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trip0where can one get this?02:54
josephnexuswe have a few wacom tablets, so he's learned better than to use actual pens02:55 and other places02:55
josephnexusthey are like 5 dollars from amazon.com02:55
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josephnexusand i'll be getting the rubberized shell too02:55
ptlI ordered that02:55
corecodeso could the n900 usb port play serial port and connect this to a ttyUSB?02:55
ptlbut it takes a long time to get here in Brazil02:55
trip0coating == clear overlay?02:55
ptltrip0: I ordered the rubber coating and the screen protector, but they are different things02:55
rasterjosephnexus:  bah. referring to the sensitivity - being able to drag things without using your fingernail02:56
josephnexusi haeven't had a problem thus far02:56
josephnexusbut maybe i have exceptionally pointy fingers02:56
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rasterjosephnexus: have you use capacitive based devices much?02:56
josephnexuslike the iPod and such?02:56
rasteripod touch - for example. yes02:57
josephnexusyeah... it's different02:57
trip0raster, yes, and capacitive based devices get greasy too fast02:57
josephnexusand it was nice... but i'm not seeing a usability difference here02:57
rastertrip0: as to resistive ones - if you use figners too.02:57
trip0yes, but i can use my finger nail02:57
rasterat least ic ant lose the stylus for a capacitive device02:57
trip0and/or a stylus02:57
ml-mobileraster:  yes you can02:57
ptlraster: but at least with resistive screen you have other options - like fingernails or stylus02:58
trip0it's hard to lose your finger nail02:58
ml-mobilenot as easily, but you can02:58
rasterand frankly - i have had both - capacitive is day vs night compared to resistive02:58
ptlit might be for you02:58
ptlbut that's not universal02:58
trip0and when you do lose your finger nail, it's usually painful enough that you won't do it again02:58
rasterwith resistive i have to remember to /lock/turn off screenbefore putting it in my pocket02:58
ptlfor me, resistive is much better than capacitive02:58
rasteri HAVE to use fingernail (or stylus) - stylus is just a pain to get out all the time - so it's moot02:59
corecodecan use it with gloves02:59
corecode<3 at -2C02:59
rasterand even with fingernail i need to keep pressure on02:59
ml-mobileraster: I wouldn't be able to use the rather tiny UI elements in Xchat :(02:59
trip0so true02:59
rasterml-mobile:  thats a xchat ui issue :)02:59
trip0also true02:59
trip0links in web pages02:59
ptlsome people's asses are more finger-friendly than xchat02:59
rastera stylus while on a bus bumping down a rough road is not going to work with that ui either03:00
ml-mobileI'd rather have tiny elements and more display space than a capacitative screen though03:00
trip0to each their own03:00
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ml-mobilesorta, but most vendors don't release multiple models03:02
josephnexusthey all have pros and cons03:02
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rasteri'd stick with the capacitivie cons03:03
rasterjust the whole pocket-pressing is insanely annoying03:03
rastercapacitive fixes that baby03:03
rasterand for things liek scrolling around with a drag - its a world of difference03:03
trip0i've never had to worry about the n900 in my pocket03:04
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trip0i've never had an issue tapping the on/off button a few times to lock it either.03:05
ptlme too03:05
trip0my nexus on the other hand, will never stay clean03:05
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trip0and swipe gestures seem "sticky" on my nexus03:06
rastertrip0: having to actually lock it is the issue03:06
rasteras opposed to just "shove it into pocket"03:06
trip0well, i hate having to unlock it as well03:07
trip0but almost all capacitive phones have that issue as well03:07
trip0oily fingers don't move as smoothly on the screen03:07
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trip0as say, a stylus03:08
trip0or you fingernail03:08
rastermy fingers slide like a baby's bottom over this screen03:08
rasterand my skin is always super-oily03:08
trip0it's a simple thing to prove.  wed your finger, dry it slightly, go drag it on a dry window03:08
trip0now take another really dry finger, drag it on the window03:09
trip0which one has more resistance?03:09
rasterso not oily03:09
rasteru mean dry?03:09
trip0in my experience, if both surfaces are dry, they move better03:10
rasterdoesnt matter to my finger03:10
trip0what phone do you have?03:10
Lumpio-Stop dipping your finger into butter03:10
rasterwet, dry, oily - all slides like a babies bottom03:10
Lumpio-It's not healthy03:10
trip0Lumpio-, i love my french fries03:10
rasterLumpio-:  hahahah03:10
rasterand yes - a findernail hs less resistance03:11
rasterby no stickiness issue03:11
trip0raster, it could just be the nexus' screen that i have issues with03:11
trip0if it was resistive though, i could work around it03:11
rasterthis is some other  phone device that doesnt have a name03:11
trip0i don't seem to have the stickiness issue doing the same thing on this n90003:11
trip0feels smoother03:12
rastermaybe the nexus1 surface is just odd03:12
trip0raster, are you testing somethign secret?03:12
raster i'm not testing - developing directly for it03:13
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rasterie not just taking pre-made thing and slapping something orthogonal/separate on top03:13
rasterworking on its core03:13
* raster sighs03:14
trip0Bada is the n900+1?03:14
rasteri'm getting bored of explaining it03:14
rasterbada is not linux03:14
rasterit is not even an os - it is middleware on top of nucleus (an RTOS)03:14
rasterit has nothing to do with linux, x11, or enlightenment03:14
rasterand nothng to do with me03:14
ml-mobileOh, so it's even more worthy of being ignored :)03:15
trip0anyone have a bh-905?03:15
rasterpeople who come up with whatever crap that says enlightenment or linux is involved are clueless rumor-mongers who happily invent fiction of their own for their amusement.03:16
rasterstuff i work on sits on a normal linux - with glibc, xserver and so on. :)03:16
ds3but rumors make life so much more interesting03:17
rasterthe n900 is an interesting device in that it is pretty much a "rough and slow prototype" to me - but something i can have out in public :)03:17
ml-mobileraster: what, the Freerunner not unsightly enough for you?03:18
rasterml-mobile: n900 is unsightly enough thanks :) (no offence! it is better than a freerunner...)03:18
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rasterbut the n900 is rather bulky. i'm a bit baffled why the screen didnt slide up further for kbd access/size.. but hey... it is what it is :)03:19
haltdefmeh, smaller than a htc universal03:20
haltdefnot bulky :>03:20
ml-mobileraster: structural integrity of the slide mechanism was my first thought, the TyTN II and touch pro 2 scare me03:20
rastersoftware-wise it needs some polishing still - the gl-es side is still rather rough i'd say.03:20
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josephnexusyeah... the software could use some polishing, but it's good03:21
rasterml-mobile:  sure - though i think it could slide up more... but hey - i am sure there are arguments on why it can't etc. etc. and in the end its a tradeoff -f giving mroe kbd space vs structural solidity. i'd lean to more space... but hey... :) a good mt-capable capacitive screen means a vkbd is more than doable03:22
rasterhaltdef: bulky is all relative... and in my world of relatives... it's bulky . :)03:22
ml-mobilevirtual keyboards are another issue entirely :)03:22
rastersure. compared to: ..... it's not bulky :)03:23
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rasterml-mobile:  sure. vkbd's need to be more than just a dumb array of buttons u press on a screen. but u need mt to be able to do them properly to begin with03:23
rasteras reality is that youy end up pressing 21 keys at once03:23
rasterie next key is pressed before previous is released03:24
raster(unless u type very slowly and deliberately or with just 1 finger)03:24
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ml-mobilemy problem is that they occupy screen space period, a hardware keyboard was one of the big selling points for the N900 to me03:25
rasterin addition unless the screen is massive - u need some kind of guessing/correction going on - and that has to now make assumptions on input - eg that u are typing i n english (and thus use a dictionary lookup) etc.03:25
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pupnikid like a 5" screen03:26
ptlI had a 5" screen03:26
ptlOn my HTC Athena03:26
ptlI used it as a cellphone during 2 years.03:27
ptlHad to buy pants with extra large pockets03:27
ptlnot really. Though it was good for reading ebooks.03:27
rasterthe htc hd2 is probably about as good as it gets there with 4.3"03:27
rasterthese days03:27
rasterbhtat baby is not a small device03:27
* raster wouldnt mind a 4-5" super amoled screen03:28
rastersuper amoled absolutely poops all over any lcd i have seen.03:28
rasterthey are massively thinner in construction03:28
rasterbrigher.. and black is... BLACK03:28
rasterat all angles03:28
rasteru actually have no idea the screen is on03:29
rasterno backlight to come on - ever03:29
rasteru run x - u have to check ps to make sure its runniong as otherwise my screen just doesnt change03:29
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rastergorgeous screen tech.03:29
rasteru go back to lcd and you go "aaaagh ... nasty"03:30
ml-mobilewhat's the difference between the AMOLED in the Nexus One and super amoled?03:30
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rasteramoled is better03:30
rastersamsung has a good set of examples03:30
pupniklower power use ?03:30
josephnexusit's not letting my change my lock code03:31
josephnexusis there a default on the n900?03:31
rasterjust amoled done better03:31
rasternexus one vs super amoled03:31
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rasterthe pics speak for themselves03:32
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rasterthat image also nicely shows... black is black03:37
rasterand with lcd.. ymmv depending on angle :)03:37
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rasterpupnik:  oh yeah. oled will also suck much less power - especially if u stick to blacks :)03:45
pupnikthat would be fun with xterm03:46
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shinkamuiI dont get the joke raster03:48
shinkamuiblacks as in black colors03:48
pupnikhow about a lynx webpage previewerr in irssi?  would save me battery03:48
rastershinkamui: it wasnt a joke. and yes. we are talking about color here... on a screen. not race. :)03:49
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rasterman i hate political correctness - look what it's doing. it means u cant have a conversation about screens and colors without it being taken as something racial because you talk about black. :/03:49
shinkamuisorry raster, didn't mean to come off like a jerk03:50
rasterwhat has the world come to :)03:50
shinkamuiI live in Louisiana right now03:50
rastershinkamui:  nah - u didnt. i'm more mumbling about the general state of things03:50
shinkamuiand its been a wake up call from my nice sheltered life in Massachusetts03:50
pupniki want darker blacks03:50
rasterwhere saying "stick to blacks" and that it even CAN be taken as something other than its actual literal meaning03:50
rasteru didnt come off as a jerk - dont worry... i03:51
rasteri'm just sighing at the general situation - that's all. :)03:52
rastertalking about screens here... so no need to worry about racism :)03:52
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pupniktbh n810 and n900 colors seem quite nice to me03:53
shinkamuispeaking of black03:53
shinkamuimy N900 is treating me bad03:53
rasterscreens have whites, blacks and colors. ... yellows too... :)03:53
shinkamuiI go treally frustrated a week ago and pulled out my iphone03:53
shinkamuiafter 5 days I almost smashed it03:54
shinkamuigod the iphone sucks03:54
shinkamuiso Im reflashing, but I was hoping to wait out the meego or pr 1.2 release03:54
rasterpupnik: compared to super amoled... no comparison. super amoled wipes the floor clean. and then kicks the lcds on the n8/9xx while they are still knocked out03:54
rasterin real life next to eachother...03:54
shinkamuihey brudda03:54
shinkamuiwhat are you doing here :)03:54
shinkamuidid you get an N900?03:55
haltdefend of the month :P03:55
shinkamuiyou can help me test my apps :)03:55
haltdefwhat apps03:55
shinkamuiand kamuIRC03:56
shinkamuiright now03:56
haltdefI'm a bit concerned about the battery life03:56
haltdefmight be worth getting the 2400mah extended battery03:56
haltdefmake the device as thick as my htc universal :P03:57
shinkamuiI want that battery03:57
shinkamuibut I can make it through the day easily with the standard battery03:57
shinkamuiwith moderate -> heavy use03:57
haltdefthat's good03:57
shinkamuiand thats moderate to heavy03:59
shinkamuinot heavye03:59
shinkamuialso depends on if you keep pushmail active03:59
shinkamuithat worked my battery down quite a bit03:59
haltdefI don't use that :p03:59
shinkamuibattery life with wifi always on and connected is way better than the iBone 3gs with wifi turning off every time the device sleeps04:00
shinkamuiif that helps guage it04:00
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haltdefmy x1 struggled today, 6 hours of mp3 playing solid killed it04:01
haltdef3G was on though04:01
haltdefwill disable cellular entirely tomorrow04:01
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crashanddiedon't allow the battery to drain04:23
crashanddieif you allow it to drain you kill it04:24
pupnikmmh how low crashanddie04:27
crashanddieI usually make sure it doesn't shut down04:27
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GAN900crashanddie, face better yet? ;)04:30
crashanddieGAN900: both eyes are open :)04:30
hflakcan madde be used to compile kernel modules?04:31
pupnikwhat happened crashanddie04:32
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crashanddiepupnik: read the logs, can't be bothered to explain again04:33
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pupnikget well soon crashanddie04:43
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hflakstarting from scratch, what is the fastest way to get a kernel module compiled for n900 kernel?05:04
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ml-mobileMaemo SDK05:05
ml-mobilegrab the VM that is ready to go05:05
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ml-mobileapt-get the kernel source05:05
ml-mobilecopy in the RX-51 config05:06
ml-mobileenable the module you want, then05:06
ml-mobilemake modules05:06
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hflakml-mobile: thanks05:08
hflakI'm currently d/ling Nathans vpc image05:09
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hflakafter its booted up I know I hafta run some scripts that will pull in the sdk binaries05:13
hflakbut how do I go about apt-getting the kernel source05:14
hflakand what does it mean to copy in the RX-51 config and enable the module05:15
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hflakthis is what I want to compile:
hflakI was thinking that all I need to do is extract it into the SDK, and then just run make05:16
hflakis there more to it?05:16
crashanddiehflak: yes, we know any code on the interwebs by heart05:18
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crashanddiehflak: feel free to use our brain as your on-demand debugger05:18
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luke-jrhflak: haha. no.05:19
* hflak needs major helpage05:20
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luke-jrhflak: hope you at least have N90005:23
hflaki do05:24
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hflakI wanted to install build-essential on the device, but it was gonna take up 75 megs05:25
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ml-mobilethat's nothing compared to a kernel build05:32
Klowneryay, lil' latitude daemon works05:34
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ptlwhat about using masquerading on the N900?05:43
ptlfrom wifi to the 3G connection05:43
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tripzeroanyone know what the app is called for the ovi maps?05:46
tripzerotrying to see if I can x11 forward it over ssh05:46
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GAN900tripzero, it's rendered by Gecko.05:59
shinkamuianyone have weave working properly?06:00
shinkamuifor me it constantly wont stay connected06:01
tripzeroGAN900, how do i launch it via the terminal?06:01
tripzerowill try06:03
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tripzerooh hmm06:04
tripzerodidn't forward it over ssh...06:04
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tripzeroi wonder if they force it onto DISPLAY :0.006:07
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sulxhmm would it be possible to create eg. script which checks if device is connected to specific WLAN and mounts nfs share according to it? =)06:37
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Andrewfblackblwthompson, you around06:38
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lcuksulx, nice :) im pondering something similar at the moment for knowing my device is "home" or at "work" :)06:45
lcukor other places with beacons06:45
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josephnexushi everyone07:10
josephnexusi think I may have found an interesting bug07:10
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josephnexusi go to my mail (an IMAP server)07:10
josephnexusand my messages show07:10
josephnexusi tap the message07:10
josephnexusit slides over, says updating, and then slides back without ever showing me the message07:11
josephnexusanyone else experience this?07:11
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josephnexusno message or reason given07:19
josephnexusany ideas?07:19
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lcukjosephnexus, is it only specific folders or messages that do this07:36
lcukor is it with everything07:36
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lcukand has it only just started to do this, or is this the first time you are trying it and it failed07:37
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Klownerhrmm, all I have left to do is put text inputs and a checkbox into this hildon config plugin07:40
lcukyeah, what things does it configure?07:41
Klowneruser/pass, update interval, and 'make updates' checkbox07:41
lcukso you want to enter users on startup of your phone?07:42
Klownerer, no, just a thing to add your google account credentials in the settings area07:43
Klownerthen plop the values into gconf and I'm all set07:43
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josephnexuslcuk: seems to be everything that isn't my sent items07:51
josephnexusand it has only started doing this07:51
josephnexusi was using the mail just fine for a few hrs07:51
lcukperhaps this time you could just try rebooting, my evolution on desktop sometimes does similar07:52
lcukit gets its knickers in a twist with the server07:53
lcuki just meh and restart07:53
lcukit seems to come back07:53
josephnexusi powered up and then powered on the phone07:54
josephnexussame thing07:54
josephnexusi think i found the issue though07:54
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josephnexusit appears my quota had been reached, so I have increased my quota (i forgot i had set a 200 MB limit, and 3GB of mail won't fit in that)07:54
josephnexussince I was using pop, but am now using imap07:54
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josephnexusso maybe it was trying to do a temp thing or my server was throwing fits because no space was left and my desktop was still trying to force feed it07:56
josephnexusanyways... talk w/ you all later07:56
josephnexusloving the device so far07:56
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Klownerbleh, I should sleep, at least I found dialog->vbox, now just have to determine what widgets are of the fancy text input sort08:12
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Klownerwoo, 13KB deb file08:30
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FlyserHi, The N900 scans for images in my music directory and shows all my cover art in the Photos application. is there anything I can do to prevent this?09:35
asj-Flyser: chmod 000 all the jpgs?09:36
Flyserbut then the music player wont show them?09:36
asj-yeah more than likely, why not just add them as coverart to the id3 tags?09:37
Stskeepsjebba: ping09:37
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ShadowJKThe use of "just" there :)09:42
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Flysersorry, I got disconnected. Did anyone answer`09:51
Flyserasj-: ↑09:51
asj-yeah more than likely, why not just add them as coverart to the id3 tags?09:51
Flyserbecause my desktop player doesn't support that09:51
Flyserdesktop player = music player on my desktop09:52
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asj-but your desktop player supports jpgs? then add them, and remove the jpgs on the n900.  Kinda lame but <sigh>09:52
Flyserreally lame ...09:53
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FlyserIsnt it possible to tell tracker to index some directory only for music?09:54
asj-or you can fix the desktop client ;)09:54
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asj-Flyser: don't get me started on tracker09:54
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LiraNunahow come I can't enter a capital letter as the first letter?10:05
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ShadowJKDo you have autocap on and thus by pressing shift cancel caps on first letter?10:08
LiraNunayeah, that's it10:09
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JaffaMorning, all10:18
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jebbaStskeeps: pong10:29
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Stskeepsjebba: you just used fbdev in your fedora stuff right?10:36
Stskeepsas in, xorg driver10:36
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jebbauh, yes?10:38
Stskeepsjust checking :P10:39
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CokeHello. What is the default text editor?10:49
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CokeI cannot find vi, emacs, nano or the one called leafpad anywhere10:49
dreginthere's a graphical one10:50
dreginnot sure if there's any CLI10:50
Cokeany names I can search for?10:50
Cokeit doesnt have to be, as long as I can start it from my terminal10:50
dreginapt-get install vim10:50
dreginone sec10:50
ShadowJKvi is preinstalled atleast, and vim in the repos10:50
CokeI've looked in the app manager it does not have vim10:50
dreginopen the terminal and try running it?10:51
ShadowJKdo you have repository enabled?10:51
Cokeoh yeah, vi is10:51
dreginI'm sure only a fraction of the apps running on the phone are actually listed in the app manager10:51
CokeShadowJK: no, what is it and why isnt it enabled by default? it sounds good.10:51
ShadowJKI think it's enabled by default in firmware 1.1.110:52
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CokeYeah it is10:52
CokeJust found it10:52
Cokeso, where can I get this leafpad?10:52
Cokevi is cool and all, but it's difficult to use with the small keyboard10:52
dreginI've gotten used to using vim with it quite well10:53
dreginit's really just a matter of getting used to the keyboard10:53
Cokeif I search for "leaf" it finds it, but not "editor"10:53
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CokeOH, it only search on title?10:53
dreginyou can choose what it searches in10:54
dreginI think....10:54
Cokei dunno10:54
dregini'm fashionably late for work10:54
dreginback in a bit :)10:55
Cokehow come sudo doesn't work properly? is it a busybox issue?10:55
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CokeI dont like the sudo gainroot command at all10:55
Cokerather have edit sudoers to restrict what user can do with sudo10:56
ShadowJKnot busybox specific I think10:56
CokeOk. maemo specific?10:56
CokeI cannot even su - to root10:57
X-FadeCoke: It isn't designed to be a multiuser environment.10:57
CokeX-Fade: does it run in single user mode?10:57
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ShadowJKrootsh probably favors not editing system files in case a future update changes them :)10:57
CokeShadowJK: apt shouldnt overwrite altered cofnigs10:58
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ShadowJKNot sure how big a role apt has in doing the updates anyway10:59
CokeI would pressume they use only apt10:59
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Cokewhy would they use another method? apt has worked for 10+ different operating systems since the late 90's to update and upgrade systems11:00
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ShadowJKI guess you haven't discovered maemo yet ;)11:01
Cokeno, got it like a week ago and I didnt even unpack it until last night11:01
Cokebut apt seems to be used for everything else11:01
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CokeI would be very surprised if they would go like "yeah, apt works 100% of the time, is exactly designed for this, but let's reinvent the wheel, write a new apt-like software, but that will mess the apt installs up badly enough for the user to lose all data"11:02
ShadowJKh-a-m shuts down much of the system for upgrade, so that the number of files in use would be minimal, so that disk space doesn't run out.. when you update via apt, I dont think it does that11:03
CokeShadowJK: actually, my firmware update looked exactly like when I install applicatinos11:03
Cokethe only difference was that after it was done it rebooted automatically11:03
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CokeConsidering that apt has upgraded systems on 12+ different architectures for nearly 2 decades I would be very surprised if maemo devs didnt find it satisfying11:04
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ShadowJKhave you discovered the dependency package yet? :D11:04
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CokeWhat is it?11:05
CokeI could ofcourse be dead wrong.11:05
CokeBecause, as I see all the time when developing for WinCE and Win32; programmers are stupid animals11:06
ShadowJKmp-pr-fremantle-geneirc or something like that.. depends on specific versions on all the packages in the base system11:06
Cokeif somehow the microsoft stupid animal programmer is working at nokia they might indeed have reinvented the wheel, only made it square11:06
ShadowJKif you for example replace busybox with gnu tools it gets uninstalled and you get no more firmware upgrades :)11:06
CokeShadowJK: ofcourse not11:06
Cokethat's a dependency thing and not at all surprising11:07
CokeThe packages are conflicting11:07
CokeThe firmware update requires busybox to be installed. It's the same in all apt-based dists11:07
CokeCan't have the cake and eat it, my friend.11:07
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Cokepoorly designed "all-in-one" dists (like ubuntu) do that all the time with stuff like pulseaudio, HAL, etc11:08
CervajzHi guys11:08
CervajzI have problem with video recording on my N900. Movies doesn't have a proper "end". VLC shows me some length of video, but when I change position close to end, the vido playing ends11:10
CokeCervajz: some videos have intervals11:11
CervajzSry for my English11:11
fcrozatnokia UI guy who chose comobox for selecting a specific date in calendar application should be shot11:11
CokeCervajz: is it like this with all videos?11:11
Cokefcrozat: indeed11:11
Cokewhen I was opted to update time and date upon starting the phone for the first time I was like "if this continues like this I'll go brazil and shoot them myself. it will be for a good cause"11:11
ShadowJKin Maemo4 there was a calendar for selecting date :/11:11
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fcrozatCoke: it is probably the first calendar application not using a calendar to choose a date.. You don't have any way to know which day of the week it is..11:12
fcrozatShadowJK: inded :(11:12
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Cokefcrozat: however, keep this in mind11:12
CokeTHe guys who designed the maemo UI are not UI designers11:12
CokeThey are programmers.11:12
ShadowJKIt's the hype, swishing and swooshing is all the rage11:12
CokeHave you seen some of the stuff programmers have done for linux lately?11:12
fcrozatCoke: I doubt that..11:12
ShadowJKCoke: actually there were actual UI designers involved11:12
CokeAside from compiz, most WM's are pretty fucking horrible from a normal user's perspective11:13
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CokeShadowJK: I dont think so11:13
ShadowJKand when the Programmers tried to make it sane, the UI designers said NO11:13
CokeBecause not only is the UI 1/1000 of what android and iphone provides, but the actual design of the phone itself is flawed11:13
CokeOk, lemme rephrase, when I say UI designer I mean like the ones who designed Android and iPhone11:13
Cokethe ones who are good at what they do and actually research human behavior when interfacing technology11:14
CokeIt's also the fault of the testers. If I would have tested this I would have filed it as "broken/bug"11:14
ShadowJKif you look at the bugzilla there are many bugs that can't be fixed because fixing it would break the UI Spec, and the UI Designers don't read bugzilla :(11:14
CokeAll that is going to be history when meego replaces maemo11:14
CokeLike, the list of design problems and errors made in maemo is HUGE.11:15
Cokemight as well restart.11:15
Cokebut it's still a linux phone with a fudging terminal..... mmmm... terminal!11:15
CokeShadowJK: for a consumer it matters little who's to blame, really11:15
CokeAll they'll see is this barely usable, buggy phone. My mom isn't easily convinced by terminals and remote X capability.11:16
ShadowJKatleast now they brought the people tha design the phone, and the people that make the software, into the same division instead of being separate :)11:16
Cokei dunno11:16
Cokenormally UI designers should be kept as far away from programmers as possible, IMO11:16
ShadowJKI meant the hw and sw people11:17
Cokeif they are good, they should know as little about the code behind and just set the requirements from a user's perspective11:17
Cokethe HW is outstanding11:17
lcukactually, no you are wrong Coke.  ui/ux designers must be involved with the developers - its no use UX outlining certain unrealistic technically prohibitive goals, and the designers can learn to find what comes easily and naturally on a device11:18
CervajzCoke: Hm, it looks like problem with VLC. Everything is OK in QuickTime player11:18
CervajzSorry for that11:18
ShadowJKthe UI designers who said the proper way to switch away from a fullscreen app is to open the camera lid, and close the camera program that autostarts...11:18
Cokelcuk: i disagree. if the UI isn't technically sound it probably isn't sound from a user's perspective either11:18
Cokelcuk: look at Apple11:18
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Coketheir UI designers didn't give a shit "what was possible" they said "this is the most efficient way to solve it for the user"11:18
ShadowJKluckily they conceded to have ctrl-backspace, or then it was snuck in :)11:18
Cokethen it's up to the development team to make those UI specs without compromising tech quality. sometimes things get rejected.11:19
lcukCoke :) you think that only applies to apple11:19
Cokelcuk: it certainly doesnt apply to Nokia, Microsoft, etc11:19
CokeWell, google might have actually hired in some good guys for android11:19
Cokelcuk: yeah, theres a good example11:19
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ShadowJKCoke: wanna bet even if MeeGo is made sane and usable, companies will "differentiate" it to unsane and silly for their devices? :)11:23
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CokeDamn split11:24
CokeShadowJK: no, i dont think so11:25
CokeI'm hoping it will be even more "linuxy"11:25
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Cokelike, a complete linux system that just happens to run a DE adapted for each type of phone hw11:25
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ShadowJKYeah but corporations and operators just can't resist to "improve" things by letting a grizzly with friggin lasers run over it atleast once :)11:27
ShadowJKLike all those different android UIs, and the mess of some devices having store, some not having the android store, etc11:28
CokeShadowJK: it's ok11:28
CokeShadowJK: you can still always replace the default DE11:28
CokeShadowJK: android is uber locked11:29
tybolltis there a way to prevent the phone from going to "pick language, region etc" when I change sim cards in my n900?11:29
CokeMeego will always be freeeee!11:29
tybolltAtleast so for "known" (prior used) ones?11:29
ShadowJKLet's hope there'll be many untivoized devices :)11:29
CokeShadowJK: what is that?11:29
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: huh? they joined SW devels and EE department?11:29
ShadowJKdocscrutinizer: It's "Maemo Devices" now11:31
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khertanHi !11:31
* DocScrutinizer should definitely move his lazy arse and write an application then11:31
DocScrutinizerso next device won't end up with a flawed USB port or similar annoyance11:32
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ShadowJKWell.. afaiu they either had to have working otg from start, or no otg, and working otg depended on lots of kernel work due to omap errata, and they didn't want to miss christmas11:34
tybolltShadowJK: boo11:35
tybolltShadowJK: Meego devices!11:35
CokeDocScrutinizer: what is wrong with the USB?11:35
DocScrutinizerall appreciated. Still you probably could have done better at least wrt errata11:35
ShadowJKbut it's hard to know, people talk about otg and get otg replies... when in fact all that (99%) care about is usb host mode11:35
TigerTaelHrm, why can't I find the pixelpipe plugin in the app manager?11:36
CokeThe only complaint I might have with the USB is that it could be bigger11:36
* ShadowJK has never used OTG on N810, but often used host mode :)11:36
Cokethe micro USB sockets tend to get damaged easily11:36
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: aiui N810 has no OTG at all11:36
ShadowJKthe sockets themselves are more durable than miniusb, but it turns out the weakest link is at the pcb :)11:37
Cokeand unlike iPhone users I don't consider my phone a deity to which I pledge my homage11:37
ShadowJKdocscrutinizer: oh? I thought it automagically switched with the right cable11:37
CokeShadowJK: what's a pcb?11:37
ShadowJKcircuit board11:37
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: still no full OTG11:37
TigerTaelOh, OVI store11:38
DocScrutinizertbh I dunno11:38
ShadowJKcables are impossible to find anyway...11:38
DocScrutinizeryep :-(11:38
ShadowJKbut female-female usb adapters are plentiful11:38
DocScrutinizermissing ID pin11:39
ShadowJKwtf is up with that, what would people use them for11:39
DocScrutinizerno idea11:39
DocScrutinizerx-modem host?11:40
tybolltShadowJK: lesian usb adapters, now we're talking...11:40
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CokeIs it OK to modify the symlinks in rcN.d directories to change the startup daemons?11:41
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DocScrutinizeryou'll learn on next boot :-P11:42
DocScrutinizerplease report :-)11:42
ShadowJKwe're awaiting your results eagerly :)11:43
CokeI meant more like "does Easy debian use some magic tool to alter services?"11:43
* DocScrutinizer feels like getting a second device, for messing around (aka development)11:44
Cokedoes it ever run in other runlevels than 2?11:44
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: ""11:44
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: but zero cash.11:45
ShadowJKI tried that with N8x0, didn't work11:45
DocScrutinizersame here :-/11:45
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DocScrutinizerduh, why?11:45
ShadowJKSomehow I was using both so much I still didnt dare mess around11:46
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tybolltis there an app/plugin/widget that gets me the date displayed in the bar where the clock is displayed?11:46
SpeedEvilCoke: easy debian does nothing - AFAIK - it simply runs it in a chroot11:46
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* DocScrutinizer makes notice to upgrade his spare N810 before the public infra is vanishing :-P11:47
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ShadowJKI saw a bunch of 404 and timeouts a few weeks ago already :)11:47
CokeDoes easy debian use tcpwrappers for allow and disallow?11:48
CokeSpeedEvil: what do you mean?11:48
CokeThe sysv crap have all these symlinks in rc.d-dirs11:48
Cokeactually its not sysv, but thats the way debian does it11:49
Cokein the olden age the only way to change startup was to symlink and rm your way through 6 runlevels11:49
Cokelater some dists added the "service" command to manage this horrible mess11:49
Cokeothers, like the grand fantastic archlinux, use just one textfile to manage runlevels11:49
CokeI did rm /etc/rc2.d/S55ssh manually just now11:50
Cokewondering if there's an easier way11:50
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lupine_85argh. Being a teredo relay requires me to run BGP11:51
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: well I guess a dd from one to the other should do mostly11:51
SpeedEvilCoke: chroot is a method of running programs in an alternate filesystem root.11:52
SpeedEvilCoke: easy debian as far as I understand does this. It does not touch the original root filesystem.11:53
ShadowJKi think it has some extra stuff going on11:53
DocScrutinizerCoke: there are cmdline dedicated tools to manage services in init.d11:53
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CokeDocScrutinizer: which are....11:54
DocScrutinizerforgot the name11:54
Cokebecause that was my question: what to use for managing the services11:54
ShadowJKdebian has update-rc.d or something like that..11:55
DocScrutinizerthere's insserv, but I guess it's not applicable for maemo11:55
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DocScrutinizerfor centos there are other service manager tools, which I used 2 weeks ago... forgot :-P11:55
CokeShadowJK: and what file does it read from in order to know how to update it?11:56
ShadowJKno idea11:56
CokeHello!!! Don't you guys even use for your phones? :)11:56
* Coke haven't actually used his n900 as a phone yet11:56
* DocScrutinizer sighs11:56
ShadowJKI did conside making openvpn start automatically, got to the point you're at and thought "meh, only start it once a month anyway I can do that manually"11:57
* ShadowJK is lazy11:57
CokeShadowJK: normally managing services is easy11:58
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DocScrutinizerRSA host key for has changed and you have requested strict checking.  ½€“n¶↓ ¶€¬””¬³ł½¼²¼²@@@!! :-(((11:58
ShadowJKthere was a controlpanel addon in maemo4, but I never tried it there either :)11:58
CokeShadowJK: meeh11:59
CokeWhy not simply have the services command available?11:59
CokeAlso, Debian have some weird naming and packaging policies11:59
Cokeapache, python etc12:00
CokeThe rationale being "I was high on crack when I came up with this sh*t"12:00
* DocScrutinizer yawns on 43th update of flashlight12:00
* ShadowJK nominates Coke to port "services" or an equivalent :P12:00
CokeShadowJK: it sort of sucked.12:00
CokeAlso, I'm pretty sure easy debian has some way of doing it12:01
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lcukcoke, you seem very eager to find fault, whats your background if i might ask?  (ie are you a win developer, hacker, manager etc)12:02
ShadowJKupdate-rc.d  [-n]  name start|stop NN runlevel [runlevel]...  .  start|stop NN runlevel12:02
Cokelcuk: hacker12:02
CokeShadowJK: yay12:02
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Cokelcuk: basically, when I run linux I install about 50M worth of software as "default"12:03
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CokeAfter that I install every package with great selectivity, configure it manually by editing files and then setup my system12:03
lupine_85the only debianisms that I find weird are grub2 and exim12:03
Cokelupine_85: apache too12:03
Cokeand Python12:03
lupine_85what's wrong with them?12:03
Cokelupine_85: overly complex for no gain12:04
Cokeand there's no rationale as to why they should be that complex12:04
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ShadowJKare there no manpages in easy-debian?12:04
CokeI can fit the Python packaging policy of archlinux on ONE line12:04
* ShadowJK has never tried easydebian :P12:04
CokeThe debian policy is like 10+ pages12:04
lupine_85can't comment on python particularly, but the apache stuff is handy enough12:04
Cokelupine_85: no it's not. :)12:04
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Cokethe upstream method is better12:04
* lupine_85 senses a difference of opinion12:04
Cokelupine_85: indeed.12:04
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CokeI can live with exim4 being fudged in debian, but not Python12:05
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Cokeour platform here is Python running on multiple types of linux12:05
lupine_85you should see what they've done to rubygems ;)12:05
lupine_85although that's fair enough. rubygems are evil to begin with12:05
Cokelupine_85: fudged up too?12:05
lupine_85they're not where the upstream puts them12:05
lupine_85but upstream do weird stuff12:05
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Cokethe Python upstream module policy is this: all importable modules and their support libraries go into $PREFIX/python$VERSION/site-packages/12:06
DocScrutinizerwtf? flasher ON MAEMO native? o.O12:06
Cokeone line.12:06
Cokenow read
Cokeand weep12:06
ShadowJKDocscrutinizer: and people brave/innocent enough to use it!12:06
CokeWhy have they done this you may ask? To save a few k's of data to avoid multiple installs of the same python module12:06
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: recursion: ->see recursion12:07
DocScrutinizer[dict entry] :-P12:07
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ShadowJKI think the most useful it can do is flash new kernel12:08
* lupine_85 reads12:08
Cokelupine_85: here's what the maintainer responded in my written complaint "if you're on a embedded system and you have multiple versions of Python those kilobytes of data are precious"12:08
DocScrutinizeractually I humbly dare to doubt it even can do that12:08
ShadowJKCoke: so maemo bind-mounts /usr/python* into /opt ;D12:09
ShadowJKdocscrutinizer: but there are a few alternative kernels in extras-devel!12:09
CokeShadowJK: the problem is not where Python and it's modules are, the problem is that Debian employs a HUGE extra library with installation checks, version comparison functionality etc12:09
CokeShadowJK: and it spread out the libraries and over 20+ directories instead of 112:09
lupine_85*shrug* a lot of those pages are declaring how the python packages interact with apt12:09
Cokelupine_85: no12:10
Cokecheck out the module section12:10
DocScrutinizergreat, and now how am I supposed to use flasher ON MAEMO to flash a kernel to the device named maemo is running on?12:10
Cokelupine_85: it's such a mess that I had to replace ALL my Debian servers with Slackware12:10
lupine_85chapter 2?12:10
CokeAnd I've been a debian-only user sinec 9712:10
DocScrutinizerUSB loopback? virtual NOLO?12:11
ShadowJKdocscrutinizer: magic!12:11
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ShadowJKi think it needs fiasco images instead of z or uImages..12:12
Cokelupine_85: check out python-support and python-central12:12
DocScrutinizerhonestly now - is flasher able to flash NAND directly rather than via USB?12:12
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CokeIn any case, they add python-support and python-central modules in case someone with limited space (yet insisting on bloating with multiple versions of Python) would want to save a few kilobytes to NOT install the same module twice12:13
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Cokelupine_85: and, we use 3 different versions of Python for our full platform and it's a fudging nightmare to manage it on Debian12:13
DocScrutinizerdirectly here menas: let's write to /dev/xyz12:13
Cokelupine_85: keep it simple does not exist on Debian any more. in fact, I think it's part of the policy to make things as complex as possible12:14
Cokelupine_85: the best response I've ever gotten from a Debian devel was "the guy makes a valid point"12:15
Cokelupine_85: but a geek may never admit to being wrong, so there we are12:16
DocScrutinizer~ $ flasher --query-rd-mode12:16
DocScrutinizerflasher v2.8.2 (Jan 18 2010)12:16
DocScrutinizerSuitable USB device not found, waiting.12:16
lupine_85heh. like I say, python's not exactly my area of expertisze12:16
lupine_85I should probably change that12:16
DocScrutinizer~ $ uname -a12:17
DocScrutinizerLinux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Thu Dec 17 09:40:52 EET 2009 armv7l unknown12:17
VeggenDocScrutinizer: don't remember all the details, but follow the procedure *exactly* when flashing. Down to "when to be plugged in", when to start flasher, etc.12:17
DocScrutinizerand then they save 64k on kernel msg buffer12:18
DocScrutinizerVeggen: Idoupt I will achieve to plug my N900 to itself12:18
DocScrutinizerI doubt12:18
DocScrutinizerdue to missing hostmode for USB, I even doubt I could flash *another* N900 by using flashor on mine12:20
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lupine_85does flasher use a file of some sort (/dev/*?) to write the data?12:21
DocScrutinizer[2010-03-11 11:12:36] <DocScrutinizer> honestly now - is flasher able to flash NAND directly rather than via USB12:21
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DocScrutinizer[2010-03-11 11:16:05] <DocScrutinizer> Suitable USB device not found, waiting.12:21
satmdwell, given the fact that you can do upgrades ota12:22
asj-lupine_85: no, it uses libusb or something similar which is /proc/bus/usb12:22
lupine_85fair enough12:22
DocScrutinizerasj-: seems herd to access the own device's NOLO bootloader this way12:24
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asj-DocScrutinizer: <shrug>12:25
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jaafarhas anyone tried to import a .vcs file into the calendar app?  I tried simply renaming it to .ics - no luck (error message was not informative)12:26
DocScrutinizer~ $ ls -l `which flasher`12:27
DocScrutinizer-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        66036 Jan 18 16:07 /usr/bin/flasher12:27
DocScrutinizer~ $ file `which flasher`12:27
DocScrutinizer/usr/bin/flasher: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.14, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped12:27
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DocScrutinizer66k not even optified useless crap - no?12:27
asj-DocScrutinizer: you're trying to have the n900 flash itself?12:28
DocScrutinizerI doubt that's possible12:28
asj-DocScrutinizer: it isn't...12:28
DocScrutinizerstill I wonder what that flasher executable might be for12:28
lcukdoesnt the kernel update require self flashing12:29
asj-oh you found it12:29
asj-probably what lcuk said?12:29
DocScrutinizerlcuk: yep, but *is* flasher used for that? and if so: how?12:30
burchrfwiw, I fixed my problem with my three sim12:30
burchrit was a case of stupid user error12:30
burchrI had the 3g/2g switcher app installed before flashing12:30
asj-burchr: you get a read mobile provider/ ;)12:30
burchrI had switched my phone to 2g..12:30
asj-sorry j/k12:30
burchrand it stayed that way after reflash12:30
burchrand three sims don't work with 2g mode/phones, so!12:30
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ShadowJKdocscrutinizer: well the kernel .deb's must contain scripts for self-flashing..12:32
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that's about as far as my thinking got right now. But I'm no .deb wizard12:33
asj-DocScrutinizer: ar12:33
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DocScrutinizerwell, I'm hoping for somebody else looking into that :-P As I first had to even find where and how to dl a kernel.deb12:34
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DocScrutinizerbasically I'd at best file a bug "flasher has borked useless --help on maemo"12:36
DocScrutinizeras I stubled over it while looking for something completely different12:37
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tybolltare you mad?12:43
DocScrutinizer# Command to used to obtain list of FIASCO image contents12:44
DocScrutinizerCMD_FLASHER_LIST="/usr/bin/flasher -F"12:44
* lupine_85 builds miredo for maemo12:45
DocScrutinizer# Command to actually flash images12:45
DocScrutinizerCMD_DO_FLASH="/usr/bin/flasher --local -f -F"12:46
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DocScrutinizer--local is the magic word :-D12:46
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lupine_85woo, it compiles. ship it!12:46
ptlwhat's miredo?12:47
lupine_85teredo tunnel client12:47
lupine_85once that's installed, I should have IPv6 over Voda's 3G network12:47
lupine_85then my phone will always have IPv6 available12:48
DocScrutinizer~ $ flasher --local --query-rd-mode12:48
DocScrutinizerflasher v2.8.2 (Jan 18 2010)12:48
DocScrutinizerCould not connect to ''12:48
lupine_85 /then/ I can run mobile IPv6 on it and it'll always have the same IP12:48
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: having fun? :)12:48
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ptlmiredo - Teredo IPv6 tunneling through NATs12:48
ptlmiredo-server - Teredo IPv6 tunneling server12:48
lupine_85furthermore, it'll be a globally-routable unicast IP12:48
lupine_85good for openssh-server ;)12:49
cehtehlupine_85: do you have flatrate?12:49
lupine_85I don't really know12:49
DocScrutinizercehteh: actually yes :-)12:49
cehtehi mean ping6 -f your phone could be costly :)12:49
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lupine_85I think it comes with some GB included with the contract12:49
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lupine_85and given how miredo and mobile IPv6 works, I can easily block abusive peers at the ipv6 server12:50
* cehteh just openvpn's to the home network, v4 still,12:50
* DocScrutinizer considers testing of rootfs flashing --local :-P12:50
lupine_85cehteh, the problem with that is when you switch from, say, wlan to 3g, all your TCP connections get broken12:50
cehtehnot here12:51
lupine_85I'd love to know how you do that12:51
cehtehopenvpn .. with improved setup, the default setup sux12:51
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cehtehhandover time from wlan to mobile and back is about 10 secs or so12:52
* ShadowJK uses openvpn to his server for seamless wlan/3g/2g switching12:52
cehtehShadowJK: with the stock setup? .. that never worked for me12:52
lupine_85do you have your config up anywhere?12:52
DocScrutinizermind publishing the related config files, dude?12:52
ShadowJKno not stock12:52
lupine_85snap ;)12:52
cehtehwell there are some more hacks .. ifup scripts, dnsmasq stuff and so on12:53
lupine_85yum, "hacks"12:53
ShadowJKand hacks on the serverside...12:53
DocScrutinizereven better reason to drop it on the wiki12:54
cehtehnot really12:54
cehtehwell dont make a too small keepalive timeout, that kills i learned :P12:54
ShadowJKmy setup isn't full in that only irc and http go through vpn, rest breaks12:54
lupine_85yeah, mobile ipv6 actually works transparently12:54
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ShadowJKI'm missing the ifup hacks :)12:55
cehtehi dont gateway normal traffic only traffic directed to my home network .. hey i dont want to stuff all through my 384k upstream dsl12:55
cehtehi am considering to setup a 2nd vpn endpoint on my server for gating web traffic12:55
DocScrutinizerhmm, why not?12:56
cehtehbut no need so far12:56
ShadowJKI'd need thingy to replace default gateway to go through vpn, and full nat on the server12:56
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: haah .. dont forget it has to pass that twice12:56
DocScrutinizerI got a server box, fat connection12:56
cehtehyeah i have a biggier server12:56
ShadowJKyeh, mine's at leaseweb..12:56
cehtehbut dont really need it12:56
lupine_85if you like, I'll publish my IPv6 setup once it's finished12:57
lupine_85all it'll need is a server somewhere with IPv612:57
ShadowJKas far as openvpn goes, I'm using the "static-home.conf" example from their website :P12:58
ShadowJKsquid and irssi on server listening on vpn ip12:58
lupine_85mm, that's not good enough for me :)12:58
lupine_85I use lots of XMPP, for example12:58
* cehteh send a bug report (improvement) to the openvpn package about using dnsmasq, but they rejected it because if security reasons, which is partially true, but i dont care much if a dns query goes outside the vpn12:58
DocScrutinizerlupine_85: hmm, I actually never checked if mine is IPv612:58
lupine_85most 'real' ISPs will have IPv6 connectivity as an option, at least12:59
* lupine_85 works for one of them ;)12:59
cehtehsometime next i think about setting up a dns tunnel (tcp in dns) .. and establish openvpn over that12:59
cehtehthat should go thrugh almost any wifi hotspot :)12:59
fluxhow about simply setting up openvpn over udp in the dns port?13:00
ShadowJKI originally set it up just to get seamless irc.. :)13:00
fluxheard it works pretty decently as well13:00
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ShadowJKon my n81013:00
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cehtehShadowJK: i'm using bip as proxy now .. that makes irc extremely seamless .. xchat on laptop and n900 connected to the same session13:00
ShadowJKwhat's bip?13:01
DocScrutinizercehteh: you fixed the backlog timestamp issue for bip?13:01
cehtehan irc bouncer which allows this 2 clients on one connection thing13:01
cehtehDocScrutinizer: i dont have backlog enabled13:02
* tybollt gets nostalgia flashbacks :D13:02
DocScrutinizertybollt: huh?13:02
cehtehsince my irc clients always run, and i do normal logging no real need13:02
tybolltdoc: ^^^^^13:02
cehtehtybollt: rather useful tools13:02
tybolltI remember having to use those before :)13:03
DocScrutinizercehteh: how's your N900 irc client supposed to *always* have connectivity?13:03
tybolltyou run your irssi in a shell someplace13:03
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tybolltDocScrutinizer: why not, really?13:04
cehtehi dont like irssi (because of perl only extensibility)13:04
DocScrutinizerxchat here13:04
wazdjust checked new symbin ^3 demo. boooring :(13:04
tybolltDocScrutinizer: oh... then that's a whole other issue ;)13:04
nid0boring but usable and works13:04
tybolltwazd: is the UI anywhere close to Hildon?13:04
* ShadowJK runs irssi on server, irssiproxy module loaded making irssi double as bouncer, xchat on * connected to thst13:04
cehtehDocScrutinizer: wlan or mobile network .. and congestion/reconnects will be buffered by openvpn to some extent13:05
DocScrutinizercehteh: PUBLISH!13:05
cehtehwhats there to publish? .. thats just the normal way it works :P13:05
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cehtehthats the main reason i set up openvpn for .. for secure things i use ssh anyways ..13:06
cehtehbut yet alone getting peristent tcp connections is priceless13:06
DocScrutinizerwhat to publish? a "VPN mini howto"13:07
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ptlending my work today13:07
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ptlgoing home.13:07
ptlfeels good!13:08
cehtehuhm .. the openvpn website and its manual is all you need :P13:08
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lupine_85znc is  a pretty good irc bouncer13:11
mtdis anyone with an n900 has 30 seconds and feels generous enough to confirm the (minor) bug , please could they open an Xterm and run:13:12
povbotBug 7834: modest dbus interface does not support SendReceive method call13:12
cehtehi used dircproxy before .. but it didnt had this dual client feature13:12
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mtddbus-monitor --session& ; dbus-send --print-reply /com/nokia/modest13:12
mtd...and confirm they see "error_name=org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod" ?13:12
cehtehmodest has bug .. i'm shocked :)13:12
mtdcehteh: <shrug> :)13:12
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lupine_85haha, ipv6 on my phone must be working. SIP just stopped connecting13:15
lupine_85(asterisk doesn't support sip on ipv6 for some reason)13:15
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* crashanddie falls in love with xcode13:23
khertanit s well designed code editor isn't it13:24
khertani love it too13:24
khertanand the designer is awesome !13:24
lcukcrashanddie, i almost misread that as you fell in love iwth X-Fade :D13:25
crashanddielcuk: yeah, maybe not :P13:26
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DocScrutinizermtd: [ERR]: No introspection data at object /com/nokia13:36
DocScrutinizerwith mdbus213:36
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hrwDocScrutinizer: lot of nokia objects do not have introspection13:38
DocScrutinizer~lart nokia objects13:39
* infobot whips out his power stapler and staples nokia objects's foot to the floor13:39
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Karlososhey people13:41
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Karlososhey speedevil13:48
spectre-@ digital africa summit13:48
spectre-thanked a few of the nokia execs for the n90013:48
Karlososdoes anyone know how to change language to english on its all foreign13:49
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sobczykhi is there a reason why microB resolves addresses much longer than fennec?13:53
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cehtehyou found one thing where fennec is faster then microb? :)13:54
xorAxAxcurrently microb doesnt work for me at all13:54
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xorAxAxso i have to use fennec13:54
xorAxAxmight change after next reboot13:54
cehtehbrowserd crashed?13:55
xorAxAxso fennec is infinitely much faster than microb13:55
xorAxAxno idea13:55
sobczykand autorotate ceased working in photo browsing and microB :(13:55
SpeedEvilfennec is significantly faster for me13:56
SpeedEvilfor much.13:56
sobczykthough is lacks rotate and text copy13:56
SpeedEvilyou can turn off browserd's auto-restart13:56
cehtehshouldv free some ram13:57
tybolltxorAxAx: How do you deduct fennec is faster than microb?13:57
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MiXu-Fennec is a lot slower for me O_o13:58
MiXu-Painfully slow to tell the truth13:58
vesaanyone know if there's an opengl 2.0 shader designer?13:58
pupnik_on n810 maemo-launcher looks to have many processes taking 40%-100% memory... are those really the programs im running?13:58
vesai've tried amds rendermonkey but i've got a nvidia 8600gts and that13:58
vesadoesn't really work with rendermonkey even with nvemulate =/13:58
pupnik_opengl es?13:59
vesayeah preferably13:59
xorAxAxtybollt: read what i wrote :)13:59
xorAxAxtybollt: the page loading times are infinitely long for microb14:00
vesaopengl shader designer (typhoon labs) won't even start =/14:00
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lupine_85so, n900 with miredo and openssh-server running seems to have pretty good battery life still14:46
SpeedEvilssh server running should be quite irrelevant14:46
SpeedEvilit will never do anything unless connected to14:46
tybolltlupine_85: Want to drain battery? Set up MFE :D14:49
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F6Fhi guys14:55
tybollthi girls14:55
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ido--hello! anyone had mic issues with their n900 ?14:55
Myrttitybollt: ♥14:56
tybolltido--: sound comes and goes when making phonecalls?14:56
F66Fcan some one link me the smothest way syncing my N900 with an Collaboration System?14:56
TigerTaelido--, I've not actually had a telephone conversation just yet, but my skype test sounded fine.14:56
lupine_85tybollt,  MFE?14:56
ido--i just got mine (from ebay), it looks new, but the mic doesnt work anywhere14:56
tybolltido--: describe your problem14:56
tybolltido--: _at all_?14:56
F66Fido--: sounds bad14:57
ido--the mic just doenst record, not anyone can hear me when in a call14:57
ido--the headphones mic does work however14:57
tybolltlupine_85: Mail For Exchange14:58
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MiXu-ido--: So the hardware is broken. Return it.14:58
tybolltMyrtti: Sorry I don't speak finnish.14:58
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ido--is it 100% a hw problem ?14:58
tybolltido--: I would reflash the phone before I sent it to repair - to make doubly sure it is not related to software14:59
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ido--i did reflash it14:59
ido--using NSU15:00
tybolltido--: still problematic? Yeah then go to your nokia shop and have it services15:00
Myrttitybollt: tis ok, I speak English and I'm already taken15:02
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tybolltMyrtti: ORLY?15:03
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alteregoI'm writing a program where I want to use gestures, I'm wondering, whether I could actually implement these gestures into X somehow, so maybe, map the browser circle gestures to emulate a scroll wheel on a mouse ..15:17
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alteregoThought it might benifit a lot of people if I could do that :)15:17
alterego~benefit ..15:17
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Cokealterego: that sounds like a neet feature for any touch screen developer15:21
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alteregoCoke: that's what I was thinking, though, I'm sure it's not trivial, I've never actually looked into X programming directly ...15:22
TigerTaelLinear Matrix algebra will help you fit arcs.15:23
TigerTael4x4 matrix15:23
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Cokealterego: it would be cool to have an Xorg input driver that would recognize configured gestures and emit X input events.15:24
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Robot101you can do that in a client15:24
Cokealterego: all I could find on the web is
Robot101much easier than faffing around configuring a driver inside the X server15:24
CokeRobot101: only it would only work for that client15:25
CokeRobot101: an X input driver would work with all apps in X15:25
alteregoRobot101: agreed, thanks for the heads-up. I'll look into it this weekend :)15:25
Robot101well no, you could have one client recieve events and synthesize others15:25
Robot101but generally, X should just deliver the actual events and let the X clients sort it15:25
Robot101most gesture stuff is done at the widget set level15:25
Robot101well, should be / will be15:25
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CokeRobot101: makes sense15:26
alteregoRobot101: well, I want this to be available to multiple applications. I want to properly emulate the input driver, so the application would work the same on a desktop system.15:26
Cokealterego: with Robot101's idea each application must use gestures15:27
Robot101alterego: even so, one client can send emulated input events15:27
Robot101(also; if your widget set implements gestures, the app still doesn't need to care)15:27
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CokeRobot101: would those gestures be picked up if I use the mouse pointer in X?15:28
andre__is it possible in Maemo5 to receive audio over Bluetooth via SCO and route to the speakers or headset?15:29
* andre__ never tried15:29
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alteregoandre__: gstreamer should be able to do most of that if not all.15:39
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sylarpowahi all15:40
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Funnyfacemy N900 has arrived :)15:48
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Funnyfacenow to figure out how to open the battery cover without breaking it.. hmm.. lol15:52
TigerTaelYou just have to put your finger inside the notch and lift away.15:52
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TigerTaelThere's no catch.15:52
burchrFunnyface: it is a little odd, but it doesn't break15:52
TigerTaelIt's quite firm.15:53
burchr(I had the same worry the first time I opened mine)15:53
TigerTaelI was worried about breaking mine.15:53
Funnyfacehehe got it now15:53
TigerTaelI didn't want to break any plastic hook/finger.15:53
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lupine_85will maemo act as I'd expect (throw up a pointer on its screen?) if I associated a bluetooth mouse?15:55
TigerTaelI have nfc, but I'm interested to know.15:56
lupine_85heh. yes, the battery cover is an insane piece of engineerinh15:56
mtnbkrspeaking of breaking battery covers, I dropped my N900 on the pavement yesterday  :(15:57
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burchrmtnbkr: better the cover breaks than the n90015:57
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Vrathamorning all15:57
mtnbkrall I saw were parts and dollar signs flying everwhere15:57
TigerTaelI need a pouch/case/cover.15:58
mtnbkrwell, it slightly cracked the corner where a wrist strap should be, and broke all the tiny clips on the back cover, but the back cover still snapped back on just not as snugly15:58
mtnbkrburchr: that's for sure... sadly I had just changed from my winder jacket to my spring jacket and it jut flew out of my pcoket.. :(15:59
TigerTaelMaybe I should consider a wrist strap.15:59
mtnbkrno insurance (yet)  lol   Need to find out where to buy  spare back cover though16:00
mtnbkrI WISH they shipped a wrist strap with it.   That was on my "to buy" list, but prolly wouldn't have helped me yesterday16:00
lupine_85mine came with a wrist strap16:00
lupine_85I couldn't work out how to attach it16:01
TigerTaelOh well, I'll just have to be very careful with my phone for a while.16:01
KMFDMi have mine in a cheap chinese plastic rubber protector thing16:01
TigerTaelBut I need a silicone case or something.16:01
KMFDMwhich will absorb any drops16:01
KMFDMand they sent me a wrist strap with it for free16:01
lupine_85aha, a bug report16:01
povbotBug 9389: Bluetooth HID mouse support16:02
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* mtnbkr re-checks his N900 box for the elusive wrist strap....16:04
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DocScrutinizerTable 15-40. OTG_CTRL :: Address Offset  0x0A :: bit5 DRVVBUS :: Signals the internal charge pump to drive 5 V on VBUS 0b: Do not drive VBUS. 1b: Drive 5 V on VBUS.16:11
DocScrutinizeris there a cmdline way to directly read/set I2C connected chips' registers?16:12
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ^^^16:14
SpeedEvilDon't know - haven't lookes16:14
SpeedEvilthere is an i2c* package in the repo16:14
SpeedEvilI don't know what it does16:14
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: thanks anyway16:15
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DocScrutinizerhmm, i2c-tiny-usb is all I can spot here16:18
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SpeedEvilyes, that's what I was thinking of16:19
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: guess it could be possible to go /sys* ?16:20
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jenspHey there, can someone tell me how to reach the addon settings in firefox mobile? I can't figure it out :(16:22
VDVsxswipe to the right, IIRC, last time I used it16:23
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jenspahh thanks, haven't been using the n900 or smartphones in general much yet, still not quite used to it :)16:25
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bilboed-tpanyone knows if/where oprofile is available for the n900 ?16:37
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amigadavebilboed-tp: ?16:39
bilboed-tpI can't find the "tools" repository16:39
amigadave ?16:39
bilboed-tpyay for not having links for the obvious ?16:40
noobmonk3y_yeah :(16:41
noobmonk3y_some things do need to be easier to find16:41
noobmonk3y_to get to the packages list i seem to have remembered a 5/6 click method :(16:41
amigadavehow about a template for the devtools pages, with a link to installation instructions?16:42
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karlososhey guys16:44
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noobmonk3y_hey karlosos16:46
noobmonk3y_having a good day?16:46
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karlososnoobmonkey how do u private message cause i cant find instructions someone showed me yesterday but i forgot lol16:47
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satmd/msg nick text16:47
karlososyeah today is good and you16:47
satmdor /query nick16:47
karlososthanks satmd16:48
karlososi am bored need a new app to try any good ones to try out16:49
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Vrathatry that16:50
Vrathagood web 2.0'ey things on it16:50
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viszyou can learn about punctuation from internet16:50
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karlososok will take a look16:50
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noobmonk3y_sorry at work16:53
noobmonk3y_only look every few mins16:53
karlososahh no probs mate]16:53
noobmonk3y_w000p my app is only 6 days from maemo repo :D16:53
noobmonk3y_17/10 votes in so far :D16:53
karlososcan you say what it does yet or do i have to wait till its been oked16:54
noobmonk3y_lol it's in extras-testing you are welcome to download it if you have the repo enabled :D16:54
noobmonk3y_it is Healthcheck16:54
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pupnik_what for16:54
noobmonk3y_screenshots and functions on that talk thread16:54
noobmonk3y_for the n900 lol16:54
noobmonk3y_tis my very first app :D - so lots of help from qwerty, lcuk etc16:55
karlososhow come you cant go straight to a link on here16:55
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noobmonk3y_you should be able to depends on what you are connecting to irc on16:55
karlososok right click and open in new browser just found it16:55
karlososa phone reboot tool that would be very handy16:56
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noobmonk3y_its just a button in the app - it is possible to add it to your top menu status area - not sure how though16:56
noobmonk3y_does give me a message to confirm you are sure though - as before hand people hit it by accident, lol - at least it worked :D16:56
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karlososto say you were new youve done pretty weel making the app16:57
pupnik_shutoff device works16:57
noobmonk3y_hehe cheers :D - never done python, qt or linux before :D16:57
noobmonk3y_started this at the end of january - in which time my linux experience is this phone since december :D16:58
noobmonk3y_Shows how much you can learn just from the talk forums :D16:58
karlososi have never done any programming so i wouldnt even know where to start other than reading c++ which is hard to understand unless you have someone there to help you lol16:58
pupnik_noobmonk3y_: a great example for people to follow16:59
pupnik_some structured learning is needed imo16:59
karlososmost definately17:00
karlosostheres a lot i need to learn17:00
noobmonk3y_brb 2 mins17:00
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karlososif i am shown i take things in a lot better but reading is def not my forte17:00
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karlososi hate reading lol17:01
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noobmonk3y_sorry boss is back in the office - and sits behind me!17:02
karlososno probs dont get sacked lol17:02
noobmonk3y_hehe - i have some experience in VB, pascal, ada, flash etc... so the basics i hope are there... but python and qt was pretty much starting over again :D17:02
noobmonk3y_the pain is the starting step to actually trying to get it on the device, once i did it... it was just a case of change code, test, change code test17:03
noobmonk3y_karlosos:  - i'm going to try and do a very simple first timers guide to pyqt linking to examples etc - but will take some time to write17:03
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villagerI don't suppose anyone knows how to disable those annoying IM presence sounds, they were introduced in pr1.1 and keeps making noise when the phone switches internet connection and skype reconnects17:05
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noobmonk3y_hmm no idea - but i have no sounds on mine, turned em all off17:05
noobmonk3y_:D - apart form the ring tome and sms tone17:05
karlososi got rid of skype cause it knackered ma phone up saying can not recieve messages17:06
karlososand wouldnt recieve even sms messages17:06
amigadavevillager: Settings → Profiles → Sytem sounds → off, i think17:07
amigadavebut that also disables useful sounds like battery low17:07
villageryeah I don't want to disable battery warnings17:07
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karlososi turn anything off with sounds apart from sms and calls cause gives me an extra 3 hours of battery17:08
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karlososand its amazing how much your battery goes down when wifi is on so that wifi switch was a good app to get17:09
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rmrfchikE: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives17:11
hrwmove it to MyDocs?17:12
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noobmonk3y_me to karlosos  - a quiet phone is a well behaved phone :D17:14
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rmrfchikdamn... it's rebooted during apt-get17:16
rmrfchikhope, it ddint' briked17:17
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RST38hAccording to AppleInsider sources, iPhone firmware 4.0 will bring multitasking to the platform this summer."17:37
RST38hOMG in just a few months Steve Jobs will invent multitasking!17:38
inzIsn't that, like, confusing to the user?17:38
bilboed-tpnonono, now you'll be able to quadruple-click on the home button to switch application17:38
bilboed-tpusability ftw17:39
bilboed-tpand then they'll claim they invented the Nintendo-thumb syndrom17:39
kirmaI bet it'll be "limited multitasking" in a way or another, and still it's a thing to praise like it's best invention ever17:40
* RST38h is sure this will become a huge selling point for iPhone over products from *other* manufacturers17:40
RST38hI mean, it will be the first iPhone to offer multitasking!17:41
inzOther manufacturers of iPhone?17:41
kirmaif it's not limited through magical restriction X, iphone may cough under memory/cpu load and user experience may erode!17:41
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RST38hkirma: Isn't this a reason to kick another few thousand apps from the app store though?17:41
kirmaand user experience is more important than what the customer would actually want, maybe compromising even that UX17:42
lovelyboyhi, i got an interesting question here: if i connect a projector with n900 using tv out cable, is it possible to have the device showing screen 1 and the projector showing screen 2?17:43
zaheermlovelyboy, no17:43
RST38hlovely: theoretically yes, practically no17:43
kirmawithout new hardware, even the latest iphone probably lacks memory to keep transitions and such bullshit nice with three arbitary apps running together17:44
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RST38hwell the hardware is similar to N90017:44
RST38hAnd N900 handles things relatively well (albeit not perfectly)17:44
* noobmonk3y_ blinks17:44
kirmamost likely approaches could be technically limited background processing capabilities or a certification process that enforces publishers to write programs according to steve's wishes.17:45
kirma"relatively well" isn't good enough for jobs17:45
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kirmait might turn so that one can run only multitasking-approved applications up to some magical limit on the device, and one traditional iphone app. or something like that...17:46
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kirmaI wonder what kind of UI they'd provide for application switching, though.17:47
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: (practically no) why?17:53
DocScrutinizerRST38h: any system reasons, or just missing app to do that correctly?17:54
DocScrutinizerI mean, it basically does show two different screens for LCD and AV-connector right now (the AV has no user interface superimposed)17:55
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noobmonk3y_ohhhhhh my god .... its the day of stupid people calling me.....17:56
noobmonk3y_a staff member logged a job with our IT peoples to transfer a blackberry... response back was... i'm sorry sir, we do not support blackberries... so i sent him the 150 page SLA, and said... i'm sorry sir yes you do.... is response was.... I don't know what that document is!!!! omfg!!!17:57
noobmonk3y_also 10 mins ago, my boss got nominated for team of the year at an awards do..... odd as i'm the only other one in his team and i'm not nominated :D17:57
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noobmonk3y_a day with no stupidity would be a boring one though :D17:58
MohammadAGdoes anyone know if uses cached maps?17:58
lovelyboyDocScrutinizer:do you have any links demonstrating what you mean by different screens for lcd and av, am really interested at this17:59
* noobmonk3y_ blames lcuk for general ignorance in the world......... :D hehe17:59
RST38hMohammad: it does not17:59
* noobmonk3y_ will brb - another joyouse phone call ;D17:59
ShadowJKwhen you connect it to tv and play a movie you get the UI only on the device's screen18:00
DocScrutinizerlovelyboy: nope, but it's as simple as "mediaplayer coninues to show an unmangled video to AV output, while on LCD it pops up the reverse, pause, forward etc buttons same time"18:01
MohammadAGRST38h, maps for israel don't show, but they're on
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lovelyboyic :D18:01
ShadowJKthe video is probably a different device like on older PC graphics cards :)18:02
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yep18:02
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DocScrutinizerif mediaplayer wasn't braindamaged in almost all respects, it probably would even allow to switch to another task for LCD screen, while video playback to AV continues in background18:04
zapAnybody knows about a port of ImageMagick to Maemo?18:05
nid0tbh if media player could do that, the entire device should be able to effectively handle two independant outputs18:05
ShadowJKwell, one rgb framebuffer and one yuv framebuffer...18:06
zapgood, but I need for maemo418:07
ShadowJKdss specs are open anyway I think :)18:07
DocScrutinizernid0: well, kinda. One of the two probably is direct video output from dsp18:08
VDVsxzap, dunno if there's one, but you can compile it from the source, I did that a while ago and works well in diablo18:08
DocScrutinizernid0: so it's a little err.. difficult to use it for normal fb style rendering18:09
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* _Lucretia_ assumes it's ok to run the maemo-scratchbox install script with -U to upgrade?18:25
_Lucretia_it seems to be working18:25
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Otacon22UniI'm a victim of this bug:18:29
povbotBug 7764: WPA-EAP authentication fails with *any* expired certificate18:29
Otacon22UniWhen this will be FIXED?!18:29
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Otacon22UniIt's a very important bug18:29
threshexpired certificate is more of a bug itself18:30
hrwOtacon22Uni: in 204618:30
Otacon22UniI can't connect to any wpa-eap tls network18:30
Otacon22Unino no18:30
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Otacon22Unithe bug name is wrong18:30
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Otacon22Unimaybe i should open another ticket18:30
Otacon22Unithat bug name is wrong18:30
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Otacon22Unithe wifi connection on N900 does not work with ANY wpa-eap tls network.18:30
inzOtacon, I use my N900 at our uni's WPA2/PEAP/MSCHAPv2 -wi-fi18:31
andre__Otacon22Uni, totally different bug then.18:32
Otacon22Uniin my uni does not work18:32
andre__so is your certificate expired or not?18:32
Otacon22Uniand not only just for me18:32
Otacon22Unibut also for a my firend18:32
Otacon22Uniit is not a network problem18:32
andre__Otacon22Uni, is your certificate expired or not?18:32
Otacon22Unibecause with laptops it works18:32
Otacon22Uninot expired18:32
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* achipa scoffs at loosing 25MB root space by just enabling extras-devel and testing18:32
inzOtacon, and you've set the manual username in advanced network properties?18:32
andre__then you're obviously not a victom of that bug. full stop.18:32
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andre__Otacon22Uni, so what *exact* wireless type do you have?18:33
Otacon22Uniyes, i've setted all18:33
Otacon22UniWPA-EAP TLS18:33
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Otacon22Uniwait, i can nopaste the wpa_supplicant file of my laptop.18:33
andre__Otacon22Uni, PAP?18:34
andre__might be
povbotBug 1635: Eduroam (EAP-TTLS+PAP) WiFi auth18:34
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andre__fixed in the next release.18:34
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Otacon22Unithis is the wpa_supplicant conf file in my laptop:18:36
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Otacon22Union the N900 i think to have setted all correctly18:37
Otacon22Unii've copied the .p12 cert file18:37
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Otacon22Unithen i've generated from it the .cer18:38
Otacon22Uniand i've setted the connection to the network in wpa-eap mode , TLS, then i've selected the cert file18:38
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Otacon22Unibut when i try to connect it says "Autentication failed"18:40
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jebbaOtacon22 you see this thread?
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jebbaah, because it's wpa_supplicant n900 info. Thought it might be relevant for you.18:49
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user_from N900 :)18:50
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Otacon22Unii want to have it working from the N900 gui, not from wpa_supplicant18:55
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DocScrutinizerjebba: do you know if there's a I"CTools package somewhere?19:01
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DocScrutinizerI2C even19:01
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Otacon22Unii will come again here later to discuss about wpa eap19:07
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer; easy-debian - there are several i2c packages19:13
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: thanks19:13
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sylarpowaany news about neighbour cells?19:13
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sylarpowaand what about cell broadcast messages?19:14
tybollteasydebian package work well?19:14
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I tried "debian-etch built for maemo" - fail19:14
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SpeedEviltybollt: yes. It's a massive chroot - but otherwise fine19:15
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jebbaDocScrutinizer I see this in extras-devel i2c-tiny-usb19:19
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jebbaI don't see a package matching *i2c* in etch19:20
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DocScrutinizerjebba: I19:33
DocScrutinizer'i'd need
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Khertan_Try4Please heelp me to push VectorMine in Extras test it and vote for it :
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uhsfthese wrist straps seem great to avoid losing the stylus, but it just sucks to order a wrist strap from sweden
RST38huhsf: Order in bulk19:44
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tybolltuhsf: give me a pic of that thing? :S19:45
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tybolltgooglers images found it for me19:48
tybolltlooks bloody awkward.19:48
tybolltpraps that's why it's so good?19:48
uhsfi mean
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slonopotamuswhat is the proper way to handle incorrect args passed to GObject constructor? ideally, i'd like to report GError and prevent object creation.19:57
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noobmonk3y__ooo two of me19:59
noobmonk3y__musta left my work connection on lol19:59
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* Arif_ disconnects noobmonk3y20:08
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noobmonk3y__still here, both of me20:11
noobmonk3y__any admins on to boot the other me off? :D20:11
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noobmonk3y__was logged in on my laptop lol!!!20:13
noobmonk3y__(Other one!)20:13
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lupine_85she builds!20:40
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admiral0guys i have trouble with wifi GUI on N90020:44
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admiral0it doesn't authenticate on a WPA enterprise network20:44
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arachnistadmiral0: oh, known bug. there's a workaround20:48
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admiral0arachnist: link or it didn't happen XD20:49
povbotBug 2051: Unable to connect to EAP PEAP MSCHAPV2 without certificates20:49
arachnistadmiral0: it works for me (heck, i wrote that comment)20:50
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admiral0arachnist: :D thanks :)20:54
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shadikkaWell, that's curious.20:58
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ShadikkaHermes gets a BadStatusLine error :P20:58
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The_Tall1Hi. For my report I would like to measure my programs power consumption. Is there any other possibility than let it run with battery completely charged, till the N810 goes down?21:02
ScribbleJOMG, iPhone 4.0 might -- MIGHT -- include multitasking.  WOW.  Imagine a phone that can do two things at once.21:02
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TriztScribbleJ; two different things at the same time? or will it use multitasking ála ms-win3.1?21:14
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VrathaScribbleJ: ss21:16
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VrathaScribbleJ: where did you get that info?21:17
Vrathan/m.  found the info21:18
GMsoftI'm trying to understand how bootmenu works, you can't actually boot another kernel, can you ?21:18
GMsoftas I understand you need to flash your new kernel and use that one to boot whatever partition you want to boot21:18
jebbaGMsoft: that's how i understand it as well.21:19
GMsoftdamn that sux :-/21:19
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GMsoftis there another way to boot another kernel ? maybe by configuring nolo or so ?21:42
GMsoftcan't find much about that21:42
GMsofton a n900 I mean21:42
ds3anyone know if the HSP/HFP bluetooth stuff is routed through software on the N900 so things like SIP can benefit from those mono bluetooth ear peices?21:42
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wazd1who wants to win 50 grands for "best designed meego app"? :D21:51
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wazd1seriously :)21:53
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ds3the problem is the definition of best designed ;)21:59
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* lupine_85 wonders if he can get his N900 to push GPS coordinates somewhere every hour or so22:15
tank-mansounds possible22:16
tank-manstalking ex gf ;)22:16
lupine_85yeah, $some lines of perl/python if nothing else22:16
lupine_85hah, no. it's my N90022:16
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lupine_85I like google latitude-y stuff, but I'd rather not let google know my whereabouts22:17
lupine_85so dump it to a private database and frontend it as I please sounds good22:17
asj-tank-man: she's stalking him....22:17
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asj-wait,  he's a he has a gf ;)22:17
* asj- runs22:17
dreginO2 had a servic like that here about 7 years ago22:18
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dreginyou could add your friends numbers to a list on their site22:18
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dreginobviously the friend had to accept the addition by replying to a text message or something22:18
lupine_85I work at an ISP and got a support ticket recently which ended "(yeah, I said GF. Cool, eh?)"22:18
asj-lupine_85: but don't you know where you are? :)22:18
dreginfor th cost of a text message O2 gave you a map pin pointing your friend's locations22:18
lupine_85so I popped onto the accounts system, got his address and travelled down with a cluebat22:18
tank-man"You are here"22:18
dreginone of my mate's did that to his girlfriend when she was supposed to be at home sick22:18
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dreginturned out she was at her ex-boyfriend's house22:19
lupine_85probably some degree of illegality there22:19
lupine_85computer misuse act, perhaps22:19
dreginthey accepted it like22:19
dreginwhen you added your friend, O2 sent them a text which they had to reply to with "yes" or something in order for you to be able to track them.22:19
asj-lupine_85: I could see it being really on a road trip, send them out once an hour, plot them on google maps for friends22:20
dreginshe just forgot about it ;)22:20
asj-if there's no cell coverage, store it till you get some22:20
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lupine_85asj-: well, indeed. i'd probably log to a local sqlite database then replicate that regularly22:21
lupine_85would I expect it to have a serious impact on battery life?22:21
dregina friend of mine tracked a month long trip around europe using a GPS dongle that hung around his neck and daved data which he transferred to his computer all night22:21
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dreginwhen he got home he was able to generate a zig-zag line across a map which tracked his every move for that month22:21
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*** davyg has joined #maemo22:22 - upload it!22:22
asj-lupine_85: with the gps on it has 3-4 hours of battery life, assume 5 mins on each every 12 hour you use 1 hour of GPS time, so 1/2 your bat/day for the GPS. Probaqbly would not make it through the day without a charge22:23
lupine_85it already has trouble with that ;)22:23
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SpeedEvilNot 5 mins22:24
lupine_85yeah, OSM rocks22:24
SpeedEvilIf you're in a GPS signal area, you get a lock within under 15s22:24
SpeedEvilso 15s/hour is more like it22:24
lupine_85wonder if I could get location data from the radio - presumably that's available at no extra cost?22:25
asj-SpeedEvil: most people aren't though, and 15s is pretty good for a hot lock, this isn't hot.22:25
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lupine_85(power cost)22:25
lupine_85that gives accuracy to $some metres22:25
asj-lupine_85: you just need to push the cell id to the data server and wait for an answer22:25
lupine_85hundred or so?22:25
SpeedEvilasj-: it's warm if you're turning it on every hour or so22:26
asj-lupine_85: about 5000 where I used to live22:26
SpeedEvilasj-: 30 - certainly - if not 1522:26
asj-SpeedEvil: ok22:26
lupine_85I guess it depends on how big the area the cell covers22:26
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asj-rural cell cites can be very large and if you only have one tower you can't get any better info22:27
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SpeedEvilyou get an segment of a circle22:28
SpeedEvilEven rural cells typically are zoned.22:28
SpeedEvilso you get an octant - say.22:28
dreginGPS signal area??? there are areas that don't get GPS signal?22:28
SpeedEvilAnd you're somewhere on that octant 3km from the tower - say.22:29
SpeedEvildregin: caves, buildings, ...22:29
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dreginmore commonly known as "inside" :p22:29
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asj-SpeedEvil: none of the mapping software indicated they used the info if they got it22:30
SpeedEvilIIRC some bits of the grand canyon you can't see any GPS sats22:31
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SpeedEvilAnd it's not inside.22:31
dreginsux2b in the grand canyon, so.22:31
SpeedEvilasj-: ?22:31
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asj-SpeedEvil: nm22:32
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ShadowJKheh, on 3G the network positioning puts me about 3-5km from my actual location :-)22:37
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mtnbkrShadowJK: it's safer that way :)22:38
mtnbkrespecially when you're on the run22:38
SpeedEvilUnless it puts yolu at the murder location.22:38
ShadowJKdid konttori appear today, or did the cellmo people kill him for asking about neighbour cells? :)22:39
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SpeedEvil!seen konttori22:39
SpeedEvilpopped in beirflym and then legft22:40
cehtehmaybe they killed the bot too :P22:40
cehtehSpeedEvil: you need to improve your n900 keyboard typing skills :P22:40
SpeedEvilNot n900.22:41
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SpeedEvilThis is a full-sized clicky keyboard.22:41
SpeedEvilBut it's under the covers, and the blankets are getting in the way.22:41
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asj-and one handed typing is hard right SpeedEvil? ;)22:48
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SpeedEvilI have no heating other than electric blanket ATM.22:49
SpeedEvilIt's 6C in here.22:49
SpeedEvilHence - keyboard is under covers.22:50
asj-SpeedEvil: where are you?22:50
dreginAnyone know of a decent tutorial to get a simple hello world running in esbox?22:50
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SpeedEvilasj-: scotland.22:52
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asj-SpeedEvil: ah ok23:01
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pupnikright so i have guests over.  showing them a tv-out movie with n900.  after 15 minutes screen goes black and i cant get it back23:03
pupnikno sale :(23:03
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cehtehwhat player?23:04
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pupnikdefault.  withy broken codec pack upgrade23:04
pupnikbattery power23:04
cehtehwell be happy it was not a bluescreen or kernel oops :P23:05
infobot~ is probably the key23:06
pupnikalso ok, they were a little upset by Croenenbeerg's Naked Lunch23:06
DocScrutinizer~seen konttori23:06
infobotkonttori <~konttori@Maemo/OS/konttori> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 2h 14m 7s ago, saying: 'now: mass effect time (just finished 1 for the second time, about to start 2 for the second time)'.23:06
pupniknow i gotta file a bug report eh23:07
pupnikjoke.  naked lunch.  bug report...23:07
aquatixhm, what N900 screen protector works best? the Zagg one looks nice, as does Brando's ultra-clear23:08
ShadowJKi heard zagg's is sticky23:08
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pupnikor take a pic of the scratches and use it for police ID if it gets stolen23:09
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cehtehi first had a rubbery Durasec HighTec which was pretty bad, protected well but was not comfortable to use23:10
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: I noticed today N900 said "charging" the moment I retracted the AV after playback of a 30min movie :-O23:10
cehtehnow i have a virkuti anti-glare which works much better, but the outer thin anti dirt coating starts to disintegrate looks very little speckled by that but is still good useable23:11
DocScrutinizermakes me think it stopped charging during playback23:11
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ShadowJKmaybe it's just the USB port that's halfway detached ;-)23:11
DocScrutinizerno, I definitely haven't changed the usb. Was snuggly settled all the time23:12
ShadowJKwas it "full" when you started playback?23:13
pupnikmy batt was full23:13
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I'd say yes. Was on charger for >16h23:14
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ShadowJKOh it probably just canceled the "Full" state then23:14
pronto  kitties!  (appently recorded with the n900)23:15
DocScrutinizernever seen (and heard!) it doing that before23:15
ShadowJKI've seen it occasionally on n81023:15
ShadowJKIt was a positive surprise, my previous nokias would happily drift down to 3.5V while on charger and heavy consumption and still claim "Full" until I disconnected charger :D23:16
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ShadowJKN900 is a different beast though.. it has an actual charger chip..23:17
asj-sad that's like one litter of kittens23:17
DocScrutinizerwell, me away for recovering from first shocking encounter with scratchbox23:17
ShadowJKHope you used the VM, that seems scary enough, I wouldn't want to try install it :P23:19
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burchrI successfully evaded scratchbox again today23:19
burchrcompiled a library+app with MADDE instead :P23:19
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dreginHas anyone run the maemo5hildonwidgets project from esbox?23:26
triplezeroboo! att only supports 2.5G with the n900?23:29
Stskeepstriplezero: n900 only supports certain frequencies23:29
Stskeepsfor 3g23:29
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cehteh.. when quadband is not enough :)23:31
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* Stskeeps yawns and collapses on the corner of his hotel room couch23:31
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cehtehanyone of you will be at the Chemnitzer Linux Tage (germany) this weekend?23:32
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aquatixShadowJK: sticky as in sticking quite firmly on the screen?23:36
aquatixi have that too with boxwave ones23:36
aquatixdoesn't really bother me23:36
aquatixif the thing works fine23:36
aquatixor sticky as in resisting your finger nails a bit23:37
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aquatixdepends on taste i guess too23:39
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aquatix <- is he using water to place it?23:46
aquatixnever thought about doing that like that23:46
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RST38h   <=== Notice...ummm...the fan23:48
aquatixfail :/23:48
aquatixah, atom23:48
* aquatix wants a Notion Ink Adam23:49
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ShadowJKZagg thingy comes with a liquid for the application23:50
RST38hStill hell to apply23:50
* RST38h just applied one to Canon G1123:51
aquatixyeah, seems to be refillable with water23:51
aquatixRST38h: thinking about only getting the screen protector23:51
RST38hAnd it never seems to apply perfectly =(23:51
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* aquatix wonders how well the screen without protection will put up with finger nails23:53
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RST38hmicro scratches23:54
RST38hyou will get a characteristic vertical spot where you scroll web pages (multiple scratches there)23:54
cehtehaquarius-: finger nails are no problem unless you have sand or other abrasive things23:54
rangeI have no visible scratches on my display.23:55
RST38h+ you will definitely get a few huge (but barely noticeable) scratches when playing Angry Birds ;)23:55
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cehtehif you are careful you can operate the device without protector, i'm not so i have a protector :)23:55
aquatixRST38h: :)23:55
aquatixcehteh: yeah, same here23:56
aquatixcehteh: which did you get?23:56
cehtehscroll up i answered long ago :P23:56
aquatixah yes, sorry23:56
Klownerwoo latitude updater daemon appears to be working23:56
cehtehso far the virkuti is good, but not perfect23:56
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aquatixvirkuti anti-glare indeed23:57
cehtehat least good enough that i will use it as long as possible23:57
* Arif_ yawns23:57
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aquatixcehteh: ?23:57
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cehtehthe durasec was bit strange to apply ... lots of bubbled, but after a few days it settled like a 2nd skin23:58
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cehtehbut the wrinky rubbery surface was not comfortable23:58
aquatixyeah, it needs to stay smooth23:58
cehtehyes exactly that one23:58
aquatixotherwise you will get multiple taps instead of a slide23:58
* ptl installing tuxrace on the N90023:58
Arif_is it made of win?23:59
Hydroxidetuxracer, presumably23:59
Hydroxideand yes it is fun23:59
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Hydroxide(if you like racing games and penguins)23:59
Arif_is it in devel/testing?23:59

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