IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-03-12

cehtehanyone still working on making stellarium useful?00:00
Hydroxideno clue. I've only played it on computers :)00:00
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cehtehhas too muuch bugs still :/00:00
aquatixShadowJK, cehteh: thanks, i'll think about it a bit further :)00:00
aquatixmore research to do00:00
ptlHydroxide: the port is called tuxrace00:00
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Funnyfacehow do you lock the N900's data connection to EDGE only? does it require lots of fiddling around with the system?00:01
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cehtehmy wife got a gps at xmas there is a very nice screen protector on it, but i dont know the brand00:01
aquatixFunnyface: no, you can put "phone" to gsm only00:01
aquatixit's in the phone settings somewhere00:02
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aquatixgsm/gsm & 3G/3G are the options00:02
aquatixanyway, i'm off00:03
aquatixthanks all, hf00:03
Funnyfaceok great. because I have an unreliable 3G signal here, and it keeps jumping forth and back between the 200:03
cehtehthere is a connection switcher widget or whatever you can select the mode in the menu then00:03
Funnyfacethanks for your help :P00:03
aquatixsure thing00:03
cehtehyeah thats bad ... stick it to 2g and fine00:03
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aquatixdid it here too00:03
aquatixsafes a lot of battery00:03
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Funnyfaceprobably depends on the amount of data you are transferring00:04
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cehtehjust irc00:04
Funnyfacefor just IM, edge would be better00:04
Funnyfacefor large files, UMTS00:04
aquatixFunnyface: well, 3G (umts etc) is another radio besides your gsm one00:04
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jefferaianyone tried JoikuSpot?00:04
aquatixso if it's in my pocket and such, gsm is better00:04
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aquatixif i want to race files, i enable 3G :)00:04
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cehtehmhm .. how does skype work over gsm?00:05
aquatixanyway, ciao :)00:05
Funnyface"network mode" (whatever it'd be called in english) is greyed out, perhaps I have to disconnect the data connection first? :P00:05
Funnyfaceok sorted it out00:07
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ptlmikkov: I am trying tuxracer but I'm stuck in the basic tutorial screen. How do I race? I tried every key on the keyboard, also tried clicking everywhere00:10
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ptlplaaaaaaaaay, damn game!00:11
ptlcan't get past tutorial screen :(00:11
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ptlVDVsx: você fala português?00:15
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VDVsxptl, yes, but this is a English 'only' channel :) pm me if you want to speak in Portuguese00:16
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ptlVDVsx: just a curiosity, because I've used (and appreciated) the programs you wrote00:16
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ptlBy your name I thought you were italian00:17
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pupnikas we get older we will need bigger screens00:18
pupnikno joke00:18
ptlor smaller eyes00:19
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Arif_I want a 5" screen00:19
ptlI want a 22" screen in a 3" device00:19
ds3then add one00:20
Arif_what about a beamer00:20
pupnikseriusly man00:20
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Arif_samsung was releasing one weren't they?00:20
pupniklook how much bezel there is00:20
lupine_85yeah, not sure whether to be happy or sad00:20
pupnikarrogant youth00:20
Arif_that'd be an interesting video call00:21
* lupine_85 is happy enough with the TV-Out, assuming it works00:21
ptlit works here00:21
Arif_it works here too00:21
Arif_but for some reason its blurry as hell00:21
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ptlwell, it's kinda blurry too00:22
ptlbut I assumed that's because it's an old TV set00:22
Arif_the N95 looked way better00:22
ptl(I don't care about TV.. I don't watch TV, ever)00:22
kynkytv-out is really dark00:22
lupine_85I'll be attempting to do a presentation with it on monday :)00:23
Arif_what will you be showing?00:24
Funnyfacekynky: do you have the correct setting? PAL/NTSC00:24
Arif_and how :P00:24
kynkyFunnyface, yep00:24
kynkyits still dark00:24
Funnyfaceare you on NTSC then?00:24
kynkyim in uk, so i used pal with a pal tv00:24
FunnyfaceNTSC = never the same colour, meaning it'll look different on all TVs :p00:24
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Arif_wait for Symbian^300:25
Arif_with HDMI out00:25
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kynkymaemo6 or meego00:26
Arif_if it's going to be like moomo 5 then no thanks =}00:26
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KlownerI see no mention of password entry widgets in the hildon reference, hrmph!00:27
ptlwait for Symbian^400:29
* Arif_ throws the Nokia N96 at ptl00:30
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Klownerah it's probably a regular GTK thing, I am a stupid corndog00:31
* ptl catches it, saves for selling it on ebay00:31
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* Arif_ drools at the N64 emulator on N90000:33
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dreginArif_: link?00:37
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lupine_85master system is good enough for me :)00:38
dreginis there a snes emulator?00:38
dreginI haven't looked at installing any of em yet00:38
dreginour languages and computability lecturer was always going on about POOOOSH down automata00:39
dreginthe lols were many00:39
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javispedroah, so the performance improvements in mupen64 are due to ari64 stuff00:41
javispedromy build now reaches 10 fps too :s00:41
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Arif_works very well00:42
javispedrohey, what a nice timing.00:43
Arif_and why hasn't someone made a megadrive emulator!00:43
Arif_too bad the N900's keyboard isnt' made for gaming00:43
lupine_85there's several around, they don't compile00:43
lupine_85well, the ones I've tried don't00:44
jonaskoelkerHas anyone had luck installing the GNU userland on the N900?00:44
lupine_85embedded asm00:44
jonaskoelkerI'd like my bash and my locate and my [...] :)00:44
Arif_I'd think picodrive would be easy to port..00:44
javispedroI love how everybody on tmo now asks if "someone will 'compile' this for me"00:44
lupine_85jonaskoelker: I've got bash installed00:44
javispedrothen points to a random piece of OpenGL 3.0 game00:44
jonaskoelkerlupine_85: in a debian thing, or... ?00:44
lupine_85it was just a packafge00:44
lupine_85bash 2.05, mind00:44
SpeedEviljonaskoelker: there is gnu_*00:44
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SpeedEviljonaskoelker: find/grep/... in extras00:44
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* lupine_85 runs out of space on three different computers simultaneously00:46
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lupine_85that'll teach me00:46
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shamushas anyone maded a geochron for the maemo platform? i know the stock clock on dilblo had a nice map but it lacked the terminator line00:47
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ds3I really wish there weren't so much conflicting info out there on the 90000:49
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dreginwelcome to the internets :P00:49
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dreginthe great thing is that you're getting it all00:50
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dreginand through a bit of research you can come to your own conclusions00:50
dregininstead of just being fed "ZOMGZ THIS IS AMAZING" from only one source.00:50
jonaskoelkerif you have a clock you know what time it is.  If you have two, you're never quite sure.00:50
ds3I guess I was asking to much to see if there is a simple sound recorder app...failing that, would arecord just work but blah00:50
jonaskoelkerds3: no, there's a simple one00:51
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javispedroworks pretty well... simple enough, uses gstreamer.00:51
ds3wish the people would just say that00:51
javispedroI didn't try more than a single hour long recording00:51
ds310-20 minutes is all I am looking for... this is assuming the N900 didn't loose the mic that was on the 8x000:52
* shamus is loving his n800 mic00:52
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ds3would I be pushing my luck in expecting maemo-recorder to also do video?00:53
shamusif you have a geochron you know exactly when it's day or night in difrent parts of the world at a glance00:54
javispedrods3: no, it doesn't do video00:54
javispedrods3: but the builtin camera app does00:54
javispedroh264, 800x48000:55
ds3sounds like I will have to scrub all the repos to find what I want to get back up to N800 functionality00:55
javispedromay lag at times, but otherwise is fine.00:55
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ds3is there still an application list web page/wiki around for the N900 (or indicatesN900 support)?00:56
dreginthere is on maemo.org00:57
dreginbut that only lists really what you see in the application manager00:58
lupine_85is there any particular reason why the rootfs is so small?00:58
javispedro... yes?00:58
ds3the applications mgr requires one to have the unit on hand which requires the prompt cooperation of some mail carrier00:58
lupine_85should have seen that one coming ;)00:58
dreginnot sure if that's what you're looking for... has a decent run down on what's available from the main repos00:59
javispedrosometimes I just want to KILL gnome-panel, damn start menu-freeze-while-loading-all-those-desktop-files01:00
dreginI removed all my gnome-panels for a while01:01
dreginjust used gnome-do for launching stuff01:01
ds3dregin: I am just trying to assembly a list of to-installs01:01
dreginand screenlets for clock and stuff01:01
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dreginds3: good plan :)01:01
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dreginI'd planned on install openssh then just logging in from my laptop and installing all the apps with apt-get01:02
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dreginbut after installing a few of em I noticed that they weren't appearing in the apps menu01:02
ds3does apt-get work well on the N900? on the older stuff it would hang because it is waiting for a button to be pressed/area to be tapped01:03
dreginworking flawlessly here01:03
dreginit's grand for the CLI based stuff01:03
dreginbut things like wireshark just didn't appear until I went into the apps manager and installed em from there01:03
dreginstill havent a clue where the flashlight app ended up01:04
lupine_85apt just-works(tm)01:04
lupine_85heh, the whole thing isn't entirely responsive01:04
lupine_85actually, I was wondering how to customise the applications that're listed on the application lists01:05
lupine_85presumably there's a bunch of .desktop files somewhere?01:05
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: recorder borks at 2GB filesize limit01:05
javispedrovfat issue I guess01:06
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DocScrutinizerhmm, probably01:08
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KlownerI haven't touched C in probably over 3 or 4 years, yet I managed to kick out a fairly functional app in under a couple days, that makes me a happy panda01:09
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SpeedEvilWow! Emotional animal avatars.01:09
SpeedEvilright, not that.01:10
lupine_85to be fair, C isn't that hard to understand01:10
lupine_85it's just tedious01:10
Klownerquite true01:10
* lupine_85 hugs his ruby01:10
Klownerthat was my first thought, I forgot how tedius it is01:10
dreginI struggled to get esbox to compile hello world :'(01:10
lupine_85fancy a dynamic array? :)01:10
dreginbut it works now01:11
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Klownernow my google latitude position is updated every 5 minutes and I don't have to futz around with the browser01:13
* lupine_85 stalks01:13
DocScrutinizerlupine_85: or, better
lupine_85DocScrutinizer: thaaaat's it :)01:14
lupine_85it comes with so much crap OOTB...01:14
lupine_85ovi store? hah!01:14
lupine_85ovi maps? HAH!01:14
DocScrutinizerham uninstall!!01:15
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ds3DocScrutinizer: isn't that also know as vomiting? :D01:16
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threshhmm, no updates in extras nor extras-testing nor extras-devel01:21
threshfor a week already01:22
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:22
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threshapt sees a lot of updates thou01:23
threshhum hum01:23
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DocScrutinizerI guess that depends on the selection of actually installed apps. I got an upfate for flashlight yesterday01:24
DocScrutinizeranother one for tuner 2 days ago01:25
dreginhow do you access that app?01:25
dreginflashlight, that is... I can't see it in my apps menu01:25
threshit's only showing in 'drop-down' menu on screen if your camera shutter is open01:26
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dreginah sweet01:27
dreginthresh: thanks01:27
threshyeah, when i discovered that i waz amazed :-)01:27
dreginI knew it only appeared when the camera sutter was open alright01:27
dreginjust not where exactly01:27
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DocScrutinizerI#d love to swap cam app by a menu to adjust flashlight brightness, select still cam or video cam, to pop up when slider opens01:28
uhsfi was looking at gnome-do today, is it good?01:28
uhsfcause of gnome do and docky split news01:29
DocScrutinizeralas it's seemingly impossible to tweak cam app "daemon" in such a way to allow that01:29
DocScrutinizer~lart mce01:30
* infobot pushes the wall down onto mce whilst whistling innocently01:30
dreginuhsf: I use it all the time.01:30
dreginIt's dock works very well01:31
dreginplently of plugins for it too01:31
dreginnot that I use em much01:31
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jonaskoelkerWhere can I graab the source code for sgt-puzzles onto my laptop?  Do I apt-get source and then relocate?  Is there a place on the web (package homepage)?01:42
pupnikwant to fix some?01:43
pupniknormally apt-get source01:43
pupnikotherwise search talk.maemo.org01:44
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javispedropupnik: did you manage to run cpas' mupen64 build?01:45
pupnikn64 has too many controller buttons for my brain01:46
pupnikthis town needs an after-midnight-snack-blowjob-service01:46
triplezerohow is mupen64 nowdays? is it usable yet?01:47
javispedroi'm getting around 11.4 fps without sound, 9.0 fps with sound in the zelda intro, so no.01:47
javispedrobut this is my build...01:47
javispedro(aka it sucks, i dumped most of the cflags for -o2)01:48
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javispedroand polygons are getting clipped, like if znear was set too low... :P01:48
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pupniki got hints about where it is going01:49
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pupnikbut honestly.  lets stick to things that can work with the n900 hardware01:50
javispedroeither way, the framerate has basically doubled since my last test.01:50
javispedrowhich was in early december iirc.01:50
Lumpio-...and this would be the wrong channel for that01:51
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javispedropupnik: ah, ran it (by replacing the binary on top of my build dir =) ). runs, a bit slower than mine but without the polygon clipping effect :P01:56
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pupnikthat font renders beautifully on n900 xterm Lumpio- !01:57
Lumpio-I know01:58
Lumpio-The font that comes with N900 does have some problems though01:58
Lumpio-It sometimes tends to show Chinese characters for Japanese text01:58
Lumpio-It's the same one that comes by default with Ubuntu etc01:58
Lumpio-Probably something like the only free font with a decent set of east asian characters or something >_>01:58
pupnikjavispedro: personally i only have psx memories and cds02:00
javispedropupnik: hehe, np. I don't have psx memories at all so I understand :)02:00
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pupnikatari 2600 for me man.  intellivision.  commodore pet.  apple ii02:02
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* noobmonk3y waves02:03
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ds3why is it I am not convinced vncviewer is available for the N900 -
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noobmonk3ygot it working on mine02:17
ds3take a look at the picture02:17
noobmonk3yyeah twas never updated lol02:17
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ds3I wonder... is there a way to get the builtin web browser to use a socks proxy?02:19
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noobmonk3ydont think it is but check that thread :D02:20
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RiotNORgood evening02:31
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ds3is there a way to compact the pages? each post is taking up way too much room03:38
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cedarhi all03:49
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Lumpio-ds3: User stylesheets03:50
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ptlwhat is this package "ansela"?03:52
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ebzzryIs there a way to ssh into an n900 as the user "user"?04:16
ebzzrySpeedEvil: What is the password?04:17
SpeedEvilyou need to at least setup ~/.ssh/authorised_keys and stuff04:17
SpeedEvilor set a password04:17
ebzzrySpeedEvil: So, by default, there is no password for the user user?04:17
tank-manmost likely04:17
ebzzryWhat are the implications of setting a password for the user "user"?04:18
ebzzryDo any of the packages on that machine depend on the user "user" being passwordless?04:18
SpeedEvileverything works after I did it04:19
tank-mani have a n800 and boot up is normal with a passwrd04:19
ebzzryHmm. That's good to know.04:19
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ebzzrySpeedEvil: authorized_keys04:23
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Emzzzz do my tits look big?04:46
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uhsfi just learned about kde plasma netbook interface, it seems to be what i need for my micropc, have you tried it?04:54
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crashanddielardman isn't on the front page anymore!05:20
crashanddie3 TIMES05:20
crashanddieTHE WORLD IS GOING TO END05:21
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crashanddieif anyone asks, I blame the meds05:54
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pupnikneed a browser that refuses to display 'digg this!' and the rest of the trash06:19
lucentAn add-on for microb that makes the user-agent configurable would be nice06:20
lucentit's a pain in the arse going into about:config to change it everytime06:20
pupnikyeah that is a popular request06:20
lucentI tried installing the older user agent changer add-on for microb, and it freaked out and trashed my microb settings06:21
pupnikkind of enjoying elinks-lite atm06:21
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lucentha, yeah elinks is great06:21
lucentI was going to give firefox-mobile a chance but there's no hover support, which is a deal killer06:22
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pupnikhow could i remove the junk from such a blog ...
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pupnikCheese for me.  Got that happy effect.07:23
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* slackmagic loves his n900 :D 07:39
TigerTaelWelcome to my club.07:40
TigerTaelUnfortunately, there is a subscription charge.07:40
TigerTaelWhich can easily be sent over paypal or snail mail.07:40
lucentmy rootfs is filling up so fast :(07:40
slackmagic , pidgin runs just fine when transferring $HOME/.purple/ over to the n900 from a workstation for example07:41
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slackmagicTigerTael: ;) hey that was my idea! lol07:41
TigerTaelslackmagic, hehe, soz.07:41
TigerTaelThere is one thing I do find with the N900 community on the forums, everyone is so agro.07:42
lucentTigerTael: yeah, zealots07:42
lucentaggressive pigs07:42
lucentthat's not just N900 but really any phone community I've seen07:42
TigerTaellucent, I agree to an extent, but the talk forums are... quite bad.07:43
lucentregular linux zealots see it and it's like "Okay, Go!" for them to jump in07:43
TigerTaelI mean, I reversed the kernel source for my HTC Magic on Android...07:43
TigerTaelI generally found people to be quite mellow and supportive.07:43
TigerTaelLooking on the talk forums, all I see is people cussing and arguing.07:44
slackmagicTigerTael: there'll always be bad apples in a basket. Can't make everyone happy unfortunately. Just ignore 'em. Works for me :D07:44
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lucentthe Flashlight applet is impossible to use when I need it07:46
slackmagiclucent: how so?07:46
lucentanyone else find it useful, but too annoying to activate to be useful?07:46
slackmagiclucent: sort of agree there07:46
lucentthe current behavior is to check for camera in use and bail out if camera is being used07:46
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lucentso you can't record video with flashlight on... since the last minor revision or so07:47
lucentthe other thing is you can't just turn on the flashlight, you have to fumble around to close the camera app07:47
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Arkenoii rather want flashlight to block camera app from launching07:47
lucenthow would that work though?07:47
TigerTaelslackmagic, yeah.07:47
lucentwhat's that widget called with all the status indicators07:48
lucentwhen you tap it a dialog appears with "Battery / (Sound) [      | ]" and a bunch of things like "Clock & Alarms" "Profile" "Internet Connection"07:48
lucenthow would you possibly detect if the user has that dialog opened?07:49
lucentmy thinking is *if* the user has that dialog opened, and the lens cover is opened, default to activating the flashlight right then and there.07:49
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Arkenoilucent: sounds reasonable07:51
lucentOkay.  Question remains, what is that "dialog" I mentioned called in a technical term, and how to detect if it is on screen?07:51
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slackmagiclucent: statusbar perhaps?07:56
lucentokay what happens when you tap the statusbar...  the _______ dialog appears ?07:57
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ebzzry2One of the first things I learned when I got my N900 is too keep a close look on rootfs.08:05
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TigerTaelForgive my noob-ality... but how do I do that? ;p08:07
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lucentTigerTael: ctrl+shift+x   for terminal, then type in     du -sh08:09
ebzzry2Do apps really tend to put stuff in /?08:09
lucentthe "du -sh" command is how I invoke it anyways08:09
lucentit shows a human readable size of mounted filesystems08:09
lucentyou could do "du -sh /" to be more clear08:09
DassuShould the default player support video through the UpNp?08:09
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ebzzry2Does anyone find himself in the situation?08:11
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DassuI can hear the sound but I can see only the first frame08:11
lucentebzzry2: a lot of the Ovi store crap made by OffScreen puts their steaming piles in /08:12
lucent...where it festers, forever.08:12
ebzzry2lucent: forever? aww08:12
lucentnot only that but if you have many repositories enabled for Apt / HAM then those caches take up lots of MB of space08:13
lucentthere's not enough space allocated for rootfs if you are going to have the most commonly "developer" used catalogs enabled08:13
ebzzry2what is the current ideal proposed solution so far?08:14
lucentre-flash, avoid installing crap.08:15
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lucentit's not "ideal"08:15
lucentOMWeather should be "OMinousWeather" the way it requires confirmation that the user will reboot their device08:16
ebzzry2I've been looking at the ad-hoc solutions posted on maemo. most, if not all are just kludges. What apps would you suggest to uninstall?08:17
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lucent"uninstall" is not possible08:18
lucentthat's what I'm getting at08:19
slackmagicTigerTael: could always make an alias and do like      df -h|awk '/rootfs/ {print $1 " has " $4 " free."}'08:19
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what kind of stupid spammer Emzzzz might be08:19
lucentapps that drag in clutter to rootfs can be uninstalled, but the dependencies are not auto-removed and remain on rootfs08:19
lucentso you're totally screwed by it.08:19
lucentusually there's tens of MB of libraries you just don't need08:20
ebzzry2That doesn't sound so good.08:20
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lucentno sensible way I could determine (after -HOURS- of hackery) to pick them out without high potential for damage08:20
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DocScrutinizerTigerTael: cmdline widget, cmd: "df -h /"08:26
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DocScrutinizerlucent: I'm hoping for a move of /usr and /var to eMMC eventually08:30
DocScrutinizersimilar to /home08:30
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crashanddiethere's a script that analyses which packages use a lot of space on rootfs08:46
crashanddieand then moves them + symlink to free up memory08:46
crashanddiegoogle around for it, zerojay wrote it08:46
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: I suggest /mode +b Emzz*08:47
DocScrutinizer[2010-03-12 03:46:16] <Emzzzz> do my tits look big?08:48
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DocScrutinizer[openmoko] [2010-03-12 03:55:15] <Emzzzz> do my tits look big?08:49
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie08:49
*** crashanddie sets mode: +r 08:49
crashanddieis it +r or +R?08:49
crashanddiecan't remember08:49
*** crashanddie sets mode: +q $~a08:49
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DocScrutinizerI'm not sure this will help08:50
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DocScrutinizerlooks like a real human advertising a fsck site08:52
*** crashanddie changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | | | Maemo Community Council | | | Free software mirror: | Can't talk? Register. Getting spammed? /mode YOURNICK +R | |"08:52
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crashanddiethat should do it08:53
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DocScrutinizer+q $~a  tends to annoy users as they can'T change their nicks while /join the chan08:54
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crashanddiethen register before joining?08:55
crashanddieEither we get spammers, or we get moaners08:55
crashanddieIt's the lesser of two evils, really08:55
* luke-jr concurs with identifying before joining08:55
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luke-jrjust put <username>:<password> in the 'server password' field08:56
luke-jrthen it happens before you even set a nick :)08:56
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr: you'd be surprised how many even experienced users fail to understand that09:03
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DocScrutinizerbtw, (I have no join/quit msgs here, so can't tell for sure, but) I guess Emzzzz is a *real* user who might even register to spread his spam09:05
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DocScrutinizerssince ircd7 we seen really no automated spam afaik. Freenode is doing an amazingly good job on that one09:07
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meceIf i optimize a library I use /opt/lib/ as library path?09:07
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DocScrutinizerno idea, I'd guess it looks about right09:09
DocScrutinizernot really09:09
DocScrutinizeryou have a link in /lib to /home/opt/lib09:09
DocScrutinizerand you use the correct libpath09:09
DocScrutinizerotherwise you package will break on non-optified systems09:10
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DocScrutinizeraiui the moving&symlinking is even done in a postinstall script09:11
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DocScrutinizerso your app executable and lib etc should be configured&built in a way agnostic of optification09:13
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infobothmm... optification is a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or
DocScrutinizerand everybody hopes it'll vanish eventually09:16
TigerTaelDocScrutinizer, I only have 65mb on rootfs. ;/09:17
DocScrutinizerhappy you09:17
meceI have 19Mb09:17
DocScrutinizer25 here09:17
meceTigerTael, you're doing it wrong :P09:17
TigerTaelWhat am I doing wrong? :P09:18
meceyou have too much free rootfs09:18
DocScrutinizeryesterday when enabling debian-built-for-maemo repo it dropped to 3.7 temporarily09:18
mececould be harmful09:18
mecethat's a big repo09:18
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lucent33.1M free on rootfs here09:19
TigerTaelToo much free space.09:19
meceso anyway... compiled Glest, and it compiled and ran without a hich in sdk. Amazing stuff.09:19
DocScrutinizerluckily after I disabled it I was back to 25MB free09:19
mececompiling to arm now. I hope it works on the phone.09:19
DocScrutinizerwhat's glest?09:20
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lucentholy mother of freedom09:21
lucentis Glest MMO?09:21
Corsacmece: it seems that it will only work on little endian machines09:23
TigerTaelDammit, I -hate- adhoc.09:23
DocScrutinizermece: ""The Autobuilder supports automatic optification of submitted packages via maemo-optify. It is triggered by the file "debian/optify", as described in the README."",_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs09:23
meceok coo..09:23
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mecearm is bi-endian09:25
mececd ..09:26
DocScrutinizerrm -rf /09:26
TigerTaeldammit, firewall blocking my shared wifi connection. ;/09:26
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Corsacmece: it won't run two endianness concurrently though09:28
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crashanddieoh man what a day09:32
DocScrutinizerquite obviously an app having endianness issues with anything but raw framebuffer / audio / other hw drivers (there shouldn't be any outside kernel) is really poor programming style09:32
arachnistDocScrutinizer: say that to rrdtool developers09:33
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mecehmm so sdk doesn't emulate endianness?09:35
crashanddie8AM, go to hostpital to get checked out, 930, go to doctor from a few days ago to pay a due, 10am, go to storage facility to get a unit, 11am go pick up dry cleaning, 1200, take care of laundry, 1300 start packing, 1400 go to office to print out travel documents, 1600, get back to hotel, finish packing up, organise what will stay and come with, 1700, go drop off boxes at storage unit. 1730, ready for takeoff xD09:35
arachnistmece: arm is mostly little endian nowadays09:35
DocScrutinizernot knowing rrdtool nor the coders, do you really think they might consider they're idiots when I tell them but they weren't able to realize by themselves?09:35
arachnistmece: so are x86 PCs09:35
meceoh... so..09:35
mecethe endianness shouldn't be a problem09:35
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mecewhy the frak does libglut3-dev depend on xlibmesa in arm but not in x86??09:41
meceerr freeglut3-dev I mean09:41
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mececuriously enough freeglut3-dbg works fine in both09:42
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mecehmm I wonder if libgl-dev didn't come along from the beta version of maemo5 sdk because it's still beta?10:33
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TigerTaelGuys, is it wiser to use the SDK virtual image or just install a new Ubuntu and start installing the SDK from scratch?10:37
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TigerTaelBecause the virtual image seems a bit messed up. ;/10:37
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TigerTaelI think I just answered my own question.10:39
yigalI just installed easy-debian but I want to increase the size of the image, and I've forgotten what commands do I need to use to do this? resize2fs? etc. ty10:39
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yigalfound it,
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noobmonk3yaghhhhhhhhhhh really cant be bothered with work today10:44
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tybolltI'll try that w/ my boss10:47
sobczykis there some daemon for rotating the screen on n900? rotate sometimes stops working on my cellphone in all apps10:47
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Dassusobczyk: rotate.py10:51
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Dassujust search the forums.10:52
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Funnyfaceok I see how the USB jack of the N900 is made now, and I notice that it requires a lot of force to plug it in and remove it that will eventually wear the socket out, so what are the suggestions to fixing it? squeezing those 2 notches that hold the plug in place?10:53
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DocScrutinizerTigerTael: well, if you can live with Ubuntu...10:55
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DocScrutinizerFunnyface: be carefull with insering/retracting, do *not* mess with the plugs or receptacle, and it will become more gentle eventually10:56
TigerTaelDocScrutinizer, I'm not sure I can.10:57
tybolltDocScrutinizer: You know they said the same about my wife... she never came more gentle w/ time... in fact it got worse! :(10:57
TigerTaelI think perhaps I should download a new Debian distro.10:57
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TigerTaelBecause ubuntu pisses me off.10:57
DocScrutinizertybollt: LOL10:58
TigerTaelDocScrutinizer, I filed down the teeth/legs on the cable/charger, happy with the results.10:58
DocScrutinizerTigerTael: strongly deprecated (but that's only me doing so), as it may introduce all sorts of problems, *including* excessive wear10:59
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TigerTaelOnly question I have as far as the distro goes, 32bit or can I go 64bit?11:01
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TigerTaelI mean, there shouldn't be a problem if I'm using 64bit right?11:02
sobczykone more thing, I was trying out mscim, uninstalled it and now I can't activate virtual keyboard (alt sym) nor the shift/alt are toggling is there a way to fix it?11:02
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TigerTaelDid anyone answer in regards to 64bit?11:04
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TigerTaelWell, I'm more thinking along the lines of debian x64...11:08
DocScrutinizerdo you think it's that much of a difference11:08
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TigerTaelWell, I see there might be some steps unnecessary there...11:09
TigerTaelI can always just use a 32bit distro if that's easier. ;/11:10
TigerTaelNo real need for 64bit at this point.11:10
DocScrutinizerTigerTael: nota bene the bootlader fix is probably pretty much independent of the particular distro, as it's mostly affecting kernel11:10
TigerTael"sudo yum -y install Xephyr"11:10
TigerTaelAnd patching the python script...11:11
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TigerTaelI'm guessing it's only the bootloader that I need to sort out?11:12
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fralslove when you get a call from someone and they go "let me connect you with my assisstant" and you get dropped from the line and cant call back11:12
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DocScrutinizerfrals: you bet those idiots get a stinky finger at best11:14
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* noobmonk3y looks around, idiots, where? :D :D11:15
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TigerTaelI haven't actually used fedora in a long time come to think of it11:18
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fralshehe, the guy i was talking to was not an idiot thou ;)11:21
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noobmonk3ylol :D11:23
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noobmonk3yfrals - your fmms really is still creating a buzz :D11:23
fralsi feel bad for not having time to code on it the last ~week11:23
* tybollt is too much of a knucklehead to get that awesome app to work11:24
mecehey linux gurus. is there an evironment variable for library paths?11:25
meceit's emptu11:25
tybolltset it11:25
mecewould that path replace the default one?11:25
meceor extend it11:25
mececool thanks :)11:25
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tybolltyou can of course use compile time shitz when making too11:27
tybolltlike -LPATH11:27
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mecerighty, well I don't feel like recompiling right now.11:29
meceit worked fine with LD_LIBRARY_PATH11:29
DocScrutinizeras elaborated earlier here, it's kinda deprecated though - at least for optifuckation purposes11:29
meceyeah I didn't create a deb for the lib I needed. I just copied the files.11:30
mecejust testing here.11:30
tybolltDocScrutinizer: oh, ok, sorry :S11:30
DocScrutinizernp, just create a symlink from the FHS conforming location to the optified one, and use the correct original path in your binary11:31
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edheldilthere's also LD_PRELOAD11:39
meceouch xfonts-base took a lot of rootfs :/11:39
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meceI wonder where they are located11:40
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* noobmonk3y blinks11:51
noobmonk3ymust be coffee time!11:51
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JaffaMorning, all11:54
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noobmonk3yYes i say YES!!!11:55
noobmonk3ylo jaffa :D11:55
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noobmonk3ysorry was just discussing the importance of me having a coffee....11:55
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SpeedEvil np: Oscar Wilde - The importance of being caffinated.11:58
DocScrutinizeredheldil: there's also 'man'11:59
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edheldilSpeedEvil:  I have read it as 'importance of being coffinated'12:00
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noobmonk3ycoffinated lol!12:01
noobmonk3ythe coffee is here, everyone can get back on with what they are doing :D12:02
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Dassusucks that n900 seems to be unable to play mythtv UpNp media smoothly12:45
DassuIn over all the whole thing sucks. I  guess it only works for music and specific videos12:45
pupniktry knots2 media center12:47
pupnikgives you transcoded audio/video with seeking12:47
ShadowJKmpeg4/xvid and h264 baseline up to 800x480 with mafw-based players. Less than 640x480 with software based players12:47
DassuFor example if I try to access those shares directly from the mediaplayer -> one frame + freeze. If I access those from the file manager -> open them with media player -> no freez but the playback is slow and skipping is not possible. With kmplayer+djmount = very slow plaback with skipping support12:47
Dassupupnik: I think I rather use darwinstreamingserver because it has support for h26412:48
pupnikyou need quality software12:48
Dassu"quality software" eh12:48
DassuI guess mythweb is alright12:49
tybollth264 ona N90012:49
tybolltyou gotta be kidding moi12:49
pupnikagain, try knots2 media center12:49
Dassutybollt: n900 supports hw acceleration for h264. h264 plays fine on my 6630 too12:50
Dassutybollt: remember that the resolution is rescaled12:50
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DassuSadly I think there is no hw acceleration for mpeg2 O_o12:50
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zaheermmpeg2 patemnt licenses are more expensive12:52
zaheermdue to the monopoly on dvd and dvb broadcasts12:53
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tybolltunfortunately movies are a deeply profound clustfuck12:53
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tybolltthere are so many royalties and assholes trying to grab your money it is not really worth wathching films12:54
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tybolltgunbritt? vafan :)12:55
Dassupupnik: the thing is that I already have darwinstreaminserver installed and I also have encode script. However I don't think I will be watching too much "tv" on my n90012:55
Dassujust wouldn't be worth the time.12:55
Dassusame thing with 6630. I already had a darwinstreamingserver but I  never used it12:56
Dassuknots2 does on-fly-encoding though which is a big plus.12:57
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Dassustill would prefer darwin when on 2-3.5G12:57
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Dassupupnik: hopefully there will be coming more demo's to the youtube regarding that knots2 because it seems to be really cool especially if it is easy to setup13:00
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tybolltmuahaha :)13:01
tybolltinteallahonsen: hemma13:01
* Dassu doesn't have too much time in his hands to setup a server side again13:01
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tybolltinteallahonsen: who are you?13:01
inteallahonsenjust some guy on the intirnets :)13:02
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tybolltthat doesn't have ... alla hönsen hemma...13:02
inteallahonsenwell i dunno if internets can send chickens over packets or that it can have them all at home. who knows13:03
pupnikdassu it is about as easy as it can be, given the components it requires13:03
tybolltanyway change back to the gunbritt nickname now... you crossdresser...13:04
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pupniknicks are like hats13:04
MiXu-haha, well said13:06
inteallahonsenyeah, I mostly use stuff that pops up in my head. username: yeswhynot password: sure13:06
inzWearing a Nick sounds gay13:06
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redhow can i disable the default keyring nag upon boot & wifi connection13:25
redoops wrong chan :)13:25
Mece_damn fonts!13:26
Mece_grr argh13:26
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J_Pis possible to run extra (desktop applications) on maemo, like as google earth?13:46
Stskeepsgoogle earth would be cool but i doubt it exists for ARM..13:46
pupnikyou can run extra applications13:47
VDVsxStskeeps, n1 has google earth13:47
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VDVsxjava based of course13:47
pupnikthey are in the -extras repository J_P13:47
hrw-n900n1 is from google...13:48
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J_Pahh O forgot about google earth don't run in arm13:48
J_Pa port will be fine :-)13:48
J_Pwell, but for run in android and iphone.. it not was ported?13:49
J_Pthey run arm too13:49
* bilboed-tp finds Ovi Maps to be way way way way more detailed than any other mapping system13:49
dottedmagJ_P: *google* ports it to what it wants to13:49
dottedmagJ_P: Because GE is not free software.13:49
hrw-n900bilboed-tp: you are joking right?13:49
J_Pdottedmag: humm.. this is a problem with google..13:49
Dassubilboed-tp: :( ovi maps doesn't have street view13:50
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Dassu-> futurama13:50
bilboed-tphrw-n900, Dassu : I don't give a *$(#@ about street views. It is really more detailed than any other mapping system. Find obscure little village in France => it has all the street names. Do the same on google map => fail13:51
bilboed-tpthat's what I mean by more detailed13:51
derfI find this varies a _lot_ by locale.13:51
bilboed-tpderf, I guess13:52
derfI mean, I've been surprised to find things like an unnamed dirt hiking trail in the middle of Tasmania on Google Maps.13:52
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dottedmagbilboed-tp: for the town I live in (120 thousands of inhabitants) Ovi does not have any information at all.13:52
TigerTaelshit happens13:53
pupnikuse openstreetmap13:53
pupnikadd what you see13:53
VDVsxhere in .pt OVI is also better, probably they have better maps of Europe13:54
* dottedmag had a look13:55
dottedmagHah. in OSM it's pretty detailed13:55
dottedmagGoogle Maps is also does not have a clue about this city13:55
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VDVsxdottedmag, you can always improve OSM ;)13:56
hrwbilboed-tp: I compare ovi maps to tomtom13:56
hrwbilboed-tp: ovi maps is useless in offline. no POI, no GPS fix13:57
dottedmagVDVsx: just wanted to stop "blahblah this is best " mantra :)13:57
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VDVsxhrw, that's not true, I use offline mode always and works fine13:57
VDVsxnot in the N900 of course :D13:58
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hrwVDVsx: I mean ovi maps/n90013:58
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VDVsxhrw, ok, so that's right :D13:58
hrwVDVsx: ovi maps/s60 are light years ahead then maemo5 crap version13:59
J_Pare there a virtual keyboard app that works very well?13:59
hrwVDVsx: but thats nokia - they never had good navigation stuff for maemo devices.13:59
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hrwor good gps receivers13:59
VDVsxalso my 5800 get gps fixes(seconds, without assist) much faster than my n900(minutes)14:00
jacekowskitomtom gps chip is worse than n900 gps chip14:00
jacekowskiit's just a software that does all magic14:00
hrwit is amazing that tomtom 3rd gets gps fix in <1 minute without network connection when n900 in same place/time never gets fix14:00
fralsVDVsx: i got the opposite experience with my gfs 5800 :D14:00
jacekowskihrw: impossible14:00
jacekowskihrw: it takes more to sent ephemeris t14:00
hrwjacekowski: checked with n810, n900, e66, tomtom14:01
jacekowskihrw: cold start takes at least 25 minutes14:01
MiXu-I also get a gps fix with N900 in seconds.14:01
jacekowskihrw: and there is no way around it14:01
meceis there a good way to get standard linux fonts to the N900?14:01
VDVsxfrals, last ovi maps right ?14:01
hrwMiXu-: offline?14:01
jacekowskihrw: unless gps have information from other sources14:01
MiXu-online of course14:01
MiXu-Why would you even use it offline :)14:01
fralsVDVsx: uh not sure, not tested it for a while so probably not14:01
meceMiXu-, roaming...14:01
VDVsxonline is cheating :D14:02
jacekowskihrw: hrw
VDVsxthat doesn't count14:02
MiXu-Ok, roaming is acceptable :)14:02
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hrwjacekowski: I do not remember when last time had to wait 10-20 minutes for fix with tomtom14:03
VDVsxI think the problem is in the n900 SW, even my OM can fix faster than my n900 (if in a new location without any cache)14:03
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VDVsxoffline of course, online is preaty fast14:04
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hrwVDVsx: I prefer to avoid roaming gprs14:06
VDVsxme too :)14:06
VDVsxI'm poor14:06
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meceso how the frak does the font configuration differ between sdk and N900? The n900 seem to have more fonts than the sdk..14:10
VDVsxMaemo is hiring like made people :P : 34 positions open at Nokia to work on Maemo / MeeGo projects in Finland and USA
xorAxAxsounds good14:11
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xorAxAxfor us customers14:11
rangeComes back blank for me.14:11
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DocScrutinizer(<jacekowski> hrw: cold start takes at least 25 minutes) That's what I thought as well (well, 15 min) - I had to learn though each sat sends his *own* trajectory data quite fast. This way GPS on FR was tuned to get a cold fix within 15sec, if sat signal si strong enough14:15
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derfYou people are confusing the "ephemeris" with the "almanac".14:15
DocScrutinizerat least that's what the developer of the GPS lib told me14:15
DocScrutinizerephem takes 3min afaik, alm takes 1514:16
derfWell, no.14:16
derfEphemeris is sent every 30 seconds.14:17
fralsVDVsx: only shows 26 positions for me there ;P14:17
derfA single channel receiver would need 2:00-2:30 to get enough for a fix.14:17
VDVsxfrals, blame Qgil :D14:17
VDVsxhis link14:17
derfA multichannel receiver could download it from all of the satellites simultaneously.14:17
derfAnd have enough for a fix in 0:30-0:60.14:18
DocScrutinizerderf: ack14:18
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derfAssuming it has a valid almanac.14:18
derf_That_ gets sent every 12.5 minutes.14:19
crashanddiekhertan: ping14:19
derfBut you don't need to get it again every time.14:19
DocScrutinizerand you need a error free transmission for that time14:19
derfWell, sure, but that's what modulation schemes are for.14:19
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DocScrutinizeraiui that's why a fix is getting much more precise after some 5..20minutes14:20
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* noobmonk3y has decided the world is QGil's fault......... tis true........14:26
crashanddielol... [Repetition alert by noobmonk3y in #maemo]14:27
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SpeedEvilWorstcase lock time I've seen without network position outdoors with a good view of the sky is 10 mins.14:29
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SpeedEvilWhich really rather sucks14:29
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* SpeedEvil is unsure if the ephemeris is broadcast synchronously, or asynchronously on all sats14:30
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ptlsomeone has ported LyX to the N900 yet?14:35
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SpeedEvilI have lynx installed, which is close.14:35
VDVsxnoobmonk3y, ah, he's a nice guy, without him, we were probably doomed to a 'Symbian-like treatment' :D :D14:35
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timeless_mbphey, has anyone here heard about harmattan?14:37
VDVsxnew chewing-gum ?14:37
ptlit's an old myth from the locals, isn't it? I don't think it exists.14:37
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hrwptl: LyX? what for?14:39
tybolltI think Harmattan is a city in the middle east14:39
ptlhrw: it'd be useful to me, and I think it fits the purpose of the device14:39
ptlhrw: if there are people who use it for things like editting word documents (abiword is there), LyX pretty much fits there too...14:40
hrwptl: check that etch recompile repo maybe14:41
ptlAnd aside from a bunch of libraries, there doesn't seem to be a big deterrent to it. LaTeX and texlive are already ported...14:41
ptlYeah... I was thinking about doing that myself...14:41
ptlBut I have a LyX document to finish first!14:42
tybolltlyx in .se means luxury... so you're dealing w/ some fancy document there eh?14:43
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ptltybollt: my dissertation. Why luxury? Any more luxury than these crazy people that write .doc/.xls/.ppt on their mobiles?14:45
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tybolltptl: btw CAN you do that ona 900 anyway?14:47
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ptlwrite docs and xls, definitely. I have abiword and gnumeric working OK in my own device.14:50
CokeHey guys. I'm looking for the Maemo SDK (and scratchbox) distributed in a regular tarball, all I can find are debs and dpkg dependant installers. Any nice urls?14:50
ptlAbout ppt I don't know. Maybe if you boot with easy-debian and fire up
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ptlAnyway, LyX is much lighter...14:51
tybolltptl: beh...14:51
tybolltptl: OOo :)14:51
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ptl09:43 <tybollt> lyx in .se means luxury... so you're dealing w/ some fancy document there eh?14:53
ptlI got the meaning of that phrase now14:53
ptlI'm kinda slow14:53
ptlyou mean 'lyx' is a swedish word for luxury?14:53
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ptlI waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant PR 1.2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!14:56
ptls/\!*/\!/ also14:57
RST38hbut all you will get is Valium.14:58
tybolltok this is silly14:59
tybolltHTC craptastic phone shitz can do full fledged OOo14:59
tybolltbut we can't? :-|14:59
RST38htybollt: Looks fine to me14:59
RST38hwe also can, but will it run at usable speed?14:59
tybolltoh well15:00
DocScrutinizerwill the menus be usable size?15:01
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DocScrutinizerwill it print ? ;-P15:01
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DocScrutinizerwill it work as supposed with N900 mouse right button?15:03
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* lupine_85 watches N900 abjectly fail to last the day15:17
lupine_85that's a bit insane15:18
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lupine_854 hours15:21
lupine_85and I've not actually been actively using it15:21
andre__any IM accounts?15:21
tybolltthe battery is craptastic once you get connected and go for things like MFE etc15:21
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lupine_85yep, two15:22
lupine_85but the day before yesterday it was happy doing 9 hours15:23
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SpeedEvillupine_85: Should I turn off the live camfeed from your device?15:24
lupine_85quite odd - it spammed me with about 6 battery low alerts in a few minutes15:24
lupine_85SpeedEvil, please :)15:24
SpeedEvilI want 'Backlight always on on wall-charger or if fully charged'15:25
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lupine_85argh, 1.8.7 patchlevel 72 is naughty15:27
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lupine_85doesn't like select &b (needs to be select(&b)) and doesn't like def mouse(&b = nil) (needs to be ...(&b))15:28
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ptlthe battery is only 1320 mAh15:29
lupine_85ahahaha, wrong channel for the ruby-messages15:29
ptlmost mobile phones of the same kind seem to use a 1400 mAh battery instead...15:30
lupine_85ptl, don't suppose it's replaceable with another, larger, one is it?15:30
ptlit is15:30
* lupine_85 bets it's expensive, has a hunt15:30
TigerTael1320 to 1400mAh won't make that much difference. ;/15:30
ptlthere is such a replaceable battery for the N900 but it makes it a lot fatter15:30
TigerTaelI want an 1800mAh battery, please.15:30
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pupnikthe problem is websites15:31
lupine_85well, it's about 6% more15:31
ptlwell, what about 2400 mAh? Would it make a difference?15:31
pupnikevil sh1tty websites15:31
TigerTaelptl, that would be nice.15:31
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RST38hmake your N900 even fatter and heavier?15:31
lupine_85it's not that ba15:31
TigerTaelWell, I don't want to make the phone bigger tbh.15:32
lupine_85one thing I did last night was move some directories from /usr/share to /opt/home15:32
lupine_85and symlink them15:32
rangelupine_85: What? It's 7 mm more.15:32
rangeThat's prety bad.15:32
TigerTaellupine_85, and then what happened?15:32
lupine_85nothing, I just had more room on /15:32
TigerTaelOh sweet.15:33
lupine_85I'm just wondering if the increased access of the mmc device would increase power drain?15:33
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TigerTaellupine_85, good point.15:33
ptlIf I hadn't already ordered a rubber case I'd order this battery15:33
rangeAnd it's missing a stand.15:33
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TigerTaelI need a silicone case. ;/15:33
Funnyfaceyes I was hoping that they'd show up with a larger N900 battery15:33
ptlto me it's more important to have a long online time than having a light device15:34
Funnyfacealthough it doesn't have to be as large as the one posted there15:34
lupine_85so right now the n900 is 17mm15:34
ptlmy previous mobile phone was a HTC athena15:34
Funnyfaceadding just 3mm to it would be enough to boost the battery time some15:34
RST38hptl: <ouch>15:34
Funnyfacealso, a larger capacity battery powers the device more efficiently, so you have less losses in heat :P15:35
lupine_85TBH, I can't see another 7mm making it xbox hueg15:35
ptlit was already large, 5" screen, 133x98x16mm and I even took it with the keyboard and the leather case15:35
lupine_85still, I need to conclusively discover - and fix - whatever's draining the current battery at 2x the speed15:35
lupine_85it just turned itself off *sigh*15:36
ptllupine_85: run powertop for a while in your device15:36
ptlRST38h: the good point of having such a heavy device is that you'd never forget it anywhere, you'd always feel if it's not in your (oversized) pocket15:37
ptlvery good device, btw. Too bad it has WM6.115:37
lupine_85if I'm using it as half a laptop replacement, I don't really care whether it's slightly larger than a nokia 320015:38
ptlI bought it because I saw a video in youtube of someone installing linux on it.15:38
ptlI thought by the time I bought it would already be ready for Linux...15:38
ptlbut it never was.15:38
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lupine_85(45 x 107 x 20.8 mm) vs (110.9 x 59.8 x 18 or 25 mm)15:39
ptlI can't say how it is a long-sought dream of having a mobile phone with such a typical Linux distro.15:39
lupine_85it's good, isn't it? :P)15:39
ptlnot only good, I finally feel like I'm in control of my own cellphone.15:40
lupine_85and now they're going to ruin it with meego and trusted computing ;)15:40
ptl...or ar you talking about the devices measurements?15:40
lupine_85the linux15:40
ptltrusted computing? Hope it's not Dr15:40
lupine_85well, maemo 6 was meant to have a hardware TPM15:41
ptlI couldn't even spell the name, does this channel have some kind of badwords-protection?15:41
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tybollt*<DR>o< QUACK!15:41
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nid0I do not see the point of the mugen device. if you're willing to carry something chunky and massive, why not carry a zaggsparq or similar, it's 6000mAh *as well* as the 1320 in the phone, rather than just 2400 flat, and you can choose to not carry it round when you want light instead of legs15:42
ptllupine_85: but in the meego statements they said they want to make the OS more open than ever15:42
TigerTaelnid0, I like that idea better.15:42
lupine_85I've no idea how much of this is planned to go over to meego. I suspect all15:42
lupine_85the plan was to have two modes - DRM-to-the-hilt, and open15:42
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lupine_85then people can sell stuff and artificially restrict it so it'll only run in the DRM-to-the-hilt mode15:42
lupine_85anyone see the openssl power-mediated vulnerability? :)15:43
ptlnid0: it might be a good compromise for some people, because the zaggsparq (I just checked its page) is still a separate and therefore clumky device15:43
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ptlI haven't, is it something like dsniff all over again, lupine_85?15:44
J_Pwhen maemo will complete move  to meego?15:44
ptlJ_P: at this point I think nobody knows, not even Nokia or Intel executives15:44
tybolltjury is still out on that one15:44
ptlJ_P: because it'll probably depend to some extent on community activity15:45
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tybolltor as nookla like to say it... ottelini and jaaksi are still in the sauna about that one...15:45
ptlnid0: hmmm, I'm interested in that zaggsparq, thanks for the suggestion15:45
lupine_85ptl, by injecting power fluctuations into the PSU while it's verifying stuff based on the private key, you can get it to reveal a couple of bits of the PK15:45
lupine_85not sure exactly how it works15:45
TigerTaelptl, Energizer have made one like that too.15:45
ptllupine_85: wow, that seems rather extreme15:45
J_Pptl do you think that this merge is a really adantage for nokia (maemo)?15:46
lupine_85it's an infeasible attack for HTTPS15:46
nid0ptl: that's just one example which happens to have a monster battery in it, there are loads of similar ones though that're also smaller15:46
ptlThis item is currently15:46
ptlOUT OF STOCK15:46
lupine_85for TPMs, it's a buster15:46
TigerTaelJ_P, I think for Nokia yes... for the community, who knows.15:46
J_PI don't like meego using rpm15:46
lupine_85so I'm happy for them to DRM it. I'll wait for someone better at crypto than me to crack the DRM, then pirate all the good applications15:46
ptlJ_P: I don't know, I haven't even seen Meego, but I'd prefer debs instead of RPMs, because of the ease with which you can just recompile regular linux packages to maemo.15:47
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nid0ptl: energizer and powermonkey both do ones that arent much larger than AA batteries, which is what the energizer one actually uses, and you can swap out batteries - personally I have one that's got a 2500mAh battery in it, is credit-card shaped and maybe 50% the thickness of the n900, and has solar panels15:47
lupine_85ptl, the ease is still there15:47
lupine_85just for source rpms instead of source debs15:47
TigerTaelnid0, sweet, what is that one called?15:47
lupine_85(and you can still use alien to convert between the two)15:47
J_Pptl Yes, I agree.. I prefer debs too.. that is very strange..15:47
J_Pmarge was "officialy" made, but in the pratical don't exist..15:48
ptllupine_85: but due to the fragmentation of RPMs, also due to the lack of tools like deb, it'll be more difficult and more distant from the more popular desktop distribution right now.15:48
nid0TigerTael - it's some semi unbranded thing I got from a uk site, its at:
nid0i'll see if i can find some brand details15:48
ptlapt-rpm is unmaintained15:48
lupine_85the whole idea is to remove the distro upstream, AIUI15:48
ptldue to smart15:48
lupine_85which might, or might not, be a good thing15:48
ptlI used apt-rpm for a couple years15:49
ptlIt was nice15:49
TigerTaelnid0, maybe I can find one.15:49
lupine_85it's a clean slate, wot15:49
lupine_85but mostly, the decision isn't going to change just because we complain about it15:49
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TigerTaelI'm wondering if I should stick to Debian now or move to Fedora for convenience on development.15:50
J_Pptl meego justify that rpm is because process to develop/made pacakges in maemo is dificult..15:50
ptlJ_P: they said because of the OBS - Opensuse Build System - which is what they use for building the whole distro (which includes cross-compilation), rpm will fit in better, and has tools that are not available for the deb format15:50
lupine_85TigerTael, apt-get install yum15:50
lupine_85~fin :)15:50
ptlJ_P: I don't know anything about OBS. I just hope they're right. I don't care that much about the packaging system if and only if it makes it easy for me to port the programs I'm interested in.15:51
TigerTaellupine_85, well, I wouldn't call that an ideal solution. ;p15:51
lupine_85as long as OBS is nothing like the rest of opensuse, it'll all be ok15:51
TigerTaelSo should I consider OpenSuse too then? ;p15:51
lupine_85yast is something that needs shooting in the face15:51
TigerTaellupine_85, agreed.15:51
* lupine_85 peeks at OBS15:51
TigerTaelOperSuse was terrible when I tried it last.15:51
J_Pand OBS is really better?15:51
lupine_85looks like it's just launchpad/ppa for rpm15:51
ptlI dunno15:52
ptlSome people said it can build debs oo15:52
ptlCan it?15:52
ptlDoes anyone here know?15:52
J_PMaemo is beautiful and fast and pure linux. And I wait meego as one SUPER maemo.15:52
TigerTaelI haven't used Linux since slackware 8 days... ;/15:52
TigerTaelJ_P, I would like that too.15:53
lupine_85'The openSUSE Build Service is the only service that allows developers to package software for all major Linux distributions'15:53
lupine_85....except everything based on Debian15:53
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J_P"....except everything based on Debian"15:53
J_Pthat is a joke15:53
J_Pmeego is crazy?15:54
TigerTaelRST38h, cool, now I need one for N900 please.15:54
burchrlupine_85: did you skim over that a little bit too quickly?15:54
TigerTaelNo exploding ones though.15:54
RST38hNo doughnut for you, sorry =(15:54
ptlIF the OBS can build deb packages15:54
ptlwhy use it for rpm?15:55
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lupine_85ahahaha, so I did15:55
ptlI found out15:58
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ptlOBS builds deb packages but doesn't use the deb sources15:58
ptlit uses .src.rpm's for that15:58
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ptlso, instead of a halfway change, changing everything would be indeed better.15:59
ptlwinds of change15:59
burchrptl: pretty sure it can use debian source.. see
burchrbut regardless, OBS isn't the only thing in the equation15:59
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lupine_85I'm sure it'll all be fine16:00
ptlburchr: well, it says this: the Build Service will not create a source repository for .deb-based distributions, but only the .deb will be created16:00
ptlburchr: isn't it?16:00
burchrptl: yes, meaning that you can't use a deb package manager to fetch the source...16:00
lupine_85well, indeed. but that's fine16:00
ptlburchr: what do we have apart from OBS?16:01
J_Plupine_85: considerations of use of rpm I understand, but I this not mean acceptable16:01
ptlburchr: not being able to use a deb package manager to fetch the source --> that is just the feature I use extensively to port my packages to maemo...!!16:01
burchrptl: I think you're getting very, very confused16:01
burchrptl: you put debian packaging into OBS, you get a binary package out of it16:01
ptlburchr: so unconfuse me please :D16:02
tybolltgetting burchr? I was always this confused :(16:02
burchrptl: the missing bit is that the end-user can't request source16:02
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ptlOk, but the end-user might benefit if a technical user ports his favorite packages16:02
burchrback to the 'what else is there' question, I'd suggest signing up at
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burchrptl: you're still confused16:02
ptlso easing the task of the technical user is a big advantage16:02
burchrptl: all they have to do is to upload the relevant packaging and the source to OBS, and a binary package is built, there is no 'porting' as such16:03
J_Pburchr: wow good urll..16:03
lupine_85just... no16:03
burchrptl: the *user* generally doesn't need to know about source16:03
lupine_85there's absolutely no point to one distribution having two packaging systems16:03
burchrlupine_85: *shrug*.16:03
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burchrif people want to spend time on it, it's not like you can stop them16:04
burchrI personally have doubts as to whether it will go anywhere16:04
lupine_85but that doesn't mean I can't ridicule them for it :)16:04
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ptlburchr: I used the wrong word, it's not porting per se (while it might steel need adaptations), it's cross-compiling, but nevertheless, does it make that much of a difference in the argument?16:04
burchrptl: I'm really not understanding you16:04
infobotptl meant: burchr: I used the wrong word, it's not porting per se (while it might still need adaptations), it's cross-compiling, but nevertheless, does it make that much of a difference in the argument?16:05
lupine_85ptl, you can get srpm files and cross-compile them as easily as dsc s16:05
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burchrptl: for the software packager, there is essentially nothing missing from OBS16:05
lupine_85and most stuff that comes in .deb is also packaged as .rpm16:05
burchrptl: the bit that won't work is apt-get source, as an end-user16:05
ptllupine_85: Yes, I know, and that's the problem, the rpm world is much more fragmented than the deb world16:05
lupine_85*shrug* I wouldn't really say so16:05
* burchr goes to get productive things done, anyway16:05
ptllupine_85: regardless of whether it was caused by policy, history or such and such16:06
J_PMost people in community want/like to use debs, why meego are doing outside..16:06
lupine_85depending on what you mean by fragmented, of course16:06
burchrJ_P: this argument is done and dead already16:06
ptlburchr: yes, that's what I use to get the ubuntu sources to compile for my N900, that is exacly the point16:06
lupine_85J_P, actually, the vast majority are indifferent, hence why they're not talking about it16:06
ptlburchr: it's easy16:06
burchrJ_P: if you're interested in helping out with deb infrastructure, sign up on that wiki page, that's it16:06
burchrptl: again, you miss the point16:06
lupine_85ptl, you could use the fedora repos to exactly the same end16:06
lupine_85or the centos ones, if wanted to16:07
* DocScrutinizer sighs on the whole batery topic16:07
lupine_85they're exactly equivalent16:07
ptlJ_P: or sign up in the meego dev lists and reignite the flame! It will be fun!16:07
lupine_85now, I love deb, but I don't care16:07
lupine_85stealing packages of any format from another distro comes a poor second to packaging the upstream directly, specificially for the target distro16:07
ptllupine_85: why? they said they wouldn't have an upstream. And centos and fedora (to a lesser extent) are not very geared towards the end-user like ubuntu. Ubuntu has lots more desktop packages.16:08
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lupine_85ptl, when you cross-compile a package from debian/ubuntu, it's not tuned for the n900. it might have some patches for desktop usage, but probably not16:08
* tybollt hands DocScrutinizer a complimentary pink poneh16:08
ptllupine_85: agreed16:08
lupine_85cross-compiling a fedora srpm will be /exactly the same/16:08
lupine_85the two operations are exactly equivalent16:09
ptllupine_85: as I said, it sometimes needs an adaptation, which could even be huge.16:09
J_Pwee needs think very well, because meego (old maemo and moblin) will/are competing with iphone os and android.. wee needa a large community..16:09
lupine_85all that differs are the exavt tools16:09
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ptljust to let you have an example16:09
ptlrecently I had to recompile, both in deb and rpm form, a specific build of bioperl along with several bioinformatic libraries.16:10
ptlI had to do that both on Ubuntu and Fedora 11.16:10
ptleven with rpms targetted specifically for fedora 11 (which were way more difficult to find than for ubuntu), I had lots more problems and incompatibilities than with Ubuntu (even using files from debian)16:11
burchrthis is still useless16:11
ptleven now the fedora installation does not run as well as the ubuntu installation.16:11
burchrtalking for hours here isn't going to change anything16:11
lupine_85burchr, indeed16:11
burchrif you're interested in deb, sign up at the wiki page I mentioned earlier16:11
burchrand fwiw, I don't consider that a very good argument, I've had just as many experiences the other way, for my subjective $0.0216:12
ptlburchr: agreed, but I want a solution. If I am so devilishly forced to use rpm, I want to know how I can solve these problems that I didn' have with debs.16:12
burchr(and yet, I still use debian based distros primarily)16:12
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burchrptl: then wait until there's something more concrete, and you actually encounter a problem that needs solving16:13
lupine_85ptl, if you're really stuck, compile as deb, use alien, chillax ;)16:13
J_PI think that decision still more political than pratical..16:13
* burchr really goes t o do productive things.16:13
lupine_85J_P, almost certainly. and that's why it's not going to change. doesn't increase the decision's relative importance, though16:13
ptlburchr: and the 'talking for hours here isn't going to change anything' argument --- well, we have people from Nokia and Intel here, doesn't that just exposes the problem that they're listening? Is this a community-geared approach or what?16:13
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burchrptl: *argh*16:13
ptlburchr: sorry but now you're just boosting my revolted self! :P16:13
burchrtalking won't make things happen16:13
lupine_85nah, the decision wasn't made with community input16:13
burchr*sign up on the wiki page for making things happen*16:14
ptllupine_85: yeaaaah, that's my point16:14
lupine_85it's no biggie16:14
lupine_85the decision to use .deb in the first place wasn't made with community input, I'll bet16:14
J_Plupine_85: but if community don't want, political decision will change, because without community help Meego don't exist..16:14
ptllupine_85: I tried that too many times, hope it was that easy and hadn't had the same problems I mentioned with building rpms, if not worse16:14
* lupine_85 stops caring16:14
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ptlmuch more people can say sane things about not being able to use deb than the ones with the time and knowledge enough for making 'things happen'16:15
ptlI could sign to help but I'd probably not have the commitment and time to effectively help.16:16
burchrin which case, it won't get done16:16
ptland that does not mean I don't care or I do not want it that way...16:16
burchrthat's both the blessing and the curse of community development16:16
burchrtake it or leave it16:16
ptlsort of16:17
ptlbut I believe many more are in my place.16:17
burchrI've no doubt there's a lot of people on both sides who have an opinion16:17
ptlthat's why we'd like a system with a more straightforward approach than rpm. The system we've been using, actually.16:17
burchreveryone has one16:17
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ptland someone has to be right16:17
burchrwhat matters is who does the work, not who has the opinions16:17
burchrif you want it to happen, you have to make it happen16:17
ptlat least on what concerns to the majority of developers16:18
tybolltcrashanddie: what's w/ the internet content filtering over there and in nz? Is pr0n and terrist-bomb-recipes really that much worse there than elsewhere?16:18
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ptlsome people might be doing much more if their opinion was even considered16:18
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* lupine_85 really doesn't think the burden of maintaining debian/ directories and rpm sources is something that anyone wants to shoulder16:18
ptlmaking things work in the open-source world is also a matter of openness16:18
ptland as such you cut out a large parte of community involvement by forcing things down the throat, changing things that were working16:18
TigerTaelI think Nokia want to implement a more robust DRM system tbh...16:18
* lupine_85 notes the N900 doesn't have a TPM chip, so whatever they build won't work on it :)16:19
TigerTaelOpen-source and DRM don't go well together. ;p16:19
DocScrutinizer~seen konttori16:19
infobotkonttori <~konttori@Maemo/OS/konttori> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 19h 26m 53s ago, saying: 'now: mass effect time (just finished 1 for the second time, about to start 2 for the second time)'.16:19
ptlthe point is: yes, I could be helping if I worked for it hard enough. BUT I'm even better than the people that will just drop off from the ship because of that inconsiderate decision.16:19
Stskeepslupine_85: it's part of the processor16:19
lupine_85oh, is it built into the core the n900 has?16:19
lupine_85just not activated?16:19
DocScrutinizerasking for neighbour cells they lynched him ;-P16:20
SpeedEvilStskeeps: IIRC there is a secure and non-secure variant of the proc16:20
SpeedEvilStskeeps: sure we hace the secure one?16:20
SpeedEvilthe secure one also has all sorts of hw encryption16:20
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josephnexusgood morning everyone!16:21
ptlDRM is not about security, security is making your machine obey you, DRM is making your machine disobey you16:21
TigerTaelJust give me some turn by turn navigation and I'll be happy.16:21
TigerTaelptl, I agree.16:21
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TigerTaelI can't understand why there's no control of the media player via the headset though.16:22
DocScrutinizerooooh, this word again. DRM :-(( oooouch16:22
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TigerTaelIt has a button, why not make it at least get to the next track.16:22
* DocScrutinizer runs vomiting16:22
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* TigerTael holds the bucket for DocScrutinizer16:22
lupine_85as long as the hardware functions (gps, radio, wireless) in 'open' mode, I'll be happy16:23
TigerTaelAnd I've heard some bad stories about AD2P/Bluetooth headsets.16:23
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* ptl thinks that DocScrutinizer is the one which added the protection on this channel so that he mistyped this world three times16:23
TigerTaellupine_85, pretty much the same for me.16:23
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* ptl thinks DocScrutinizer DRM-protected the channel16:23
TigerTaelAnd I like not having to hack my device for root access, thanks.16:23
lupine_85eh, TPM will give you root, just as with selinux and apparmour, root won't be able to do everything16:23
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ptlwhat's TPM anyway? In portuguese it means PMS.16:24
TigerTaelTrusted Platform Module.16:24
lupine_85it's about as nice as PMS ;)16:24
DocScrutinizeraka fritz chip16:24
DocScrutinizeraka large pile of bullshit16:25
lupine_85heh. also: 'Acronym for Theme Park Mentality. A pejorative term describing a park that has excessively strict rules, especially safety regulations.'16:25
lupine_85now with super cow powers?16:25
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TigerTaelI moved away from Android to get away from the closed hardware/kernel sources.16:25
TigerTaelAnd the shoddy hardware from HTC. ;/16:26
infobot:), DocScrutinizer16:26
lupine_85mostly, I dislike java ;)16:26
TigerTaellupine_85, I concur.16:26
lupine_85google's approach to the linux kernel is also something I'm not fond of16:26
lupine_85and no X!16:26
TigerTaellupine_85, again, I agree.16:26
lupine_85they could at least have a compatibility layer... or they would if they were interested in a /linux/ mobile phone16:27
* ptl +116:27
lupine_85ah well16:27
TigerTaelCtrl+shift+x straight to terminal, yay.16:27
ptland android creates a new uid for every process!16:27
lupine_85that might be taking process separation a bit far ;)16:27
hrwlupine_85: but it does not change that android phones are linux mobile phones16:27
hrwit is just Android/Linux not GNU/Linux16:27
TigerTaelLinux powered phones...16:27
lupine_85no, they're mobile phones that run a branch of of the linux kernel16:28
ptlandroid was recently expelled from linux16:28
hrwlupine_85: so is n90016:28
TigerTaelptl, eh?16:28
ptldidn't yoy know?16:28
lupine_85difference in attitude, though :)16:28
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ptlread the changelog of kernel 2.6.3316:28
hrwn900 is mobile phone that run a branch of the linux kernel - thats your words lupine_8516:28
ptland the accompanying article to which it links16:28
hrwptl: you are not right16:29
TigerTaelptl, I don't have time for that, about to leave work.16:29
ptlTigerTael: ok16:29
lupine_85the nokia people at least try with some degree of seriousness to get their code into upstream16:29
ptlhrw: what's the wrong part?16:29
lupine_85I guess android is better described as a fork than a branch16:29
TigerTaelptl, but I will look into it further later.16:29
hrw'android was recently expelled from linux' is bullshit. the true is 'some android code was dropped from staging part of mainline Linux kernel tree'16:29
ptlhrw: I think that was close enough16:30
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TigerTaelWell I'm just sick of HTC's attitude and Google's attitude for the most part.16:30
hrwptl: nokia does not use mainline linux and has own changes which did not even get to staging area16:30
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* RST38h got badly bitten by C#16:30
ptlBut I think 'expelled' is a better word than dropped, because there were some controversy on that.16:31
ptlhrw: yeah, linux-omap16:31
* RST38h now hates languages where everything is a reference16:31
ptlRST38h: I hate direct manipulation of pointers too16:31
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RST38hFucking confusing, no idea why they say it is "easier for beginners"16:31
hrwptl: the question is will n900 be ever supported by mainline linux-omap or linux/torvalds trees16:31
hrwptl: n8x0 was not and I do not know do they are now16:31
RST38hptl: There is no direct manipulation of pointers. There is indirect manipulation of pointers and it is confusing16:32
SpeedEvilIs someone willing to put the effort into getting patches pushed upstream?16:32
hrwSpeedEvil: which patches?16:32
RST38hmoo hrw, btw16:32
SpeedEvil'it compiles and works' isn't enough to automatically get it upstream16:32
TigerTaelSpeedEvil, damn.16:32
hrwSpeedEvil: extracting patches from nokia kernel drop is useless as internally they have changes for that code present16:32
SpeedEvilhrw: that doesn't in principle mean that you couldn't extract any given patch, and submit it for upstream16:33
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hrwSpeedEvil: so you spend 3h on getting nice patch, send it to ML just to get info from someone@nokia: this patch is useless, we dropped half of that code already in favour of other solutions16:33
lupine_85so when I apt-get source kernel and build it, I get something that's different to the kernel on my n900?16:33
hrwlupine_85: you will get same16:33
lupine_85good :)16:34
hrwwhich already is quite old but n900 will rather never get newer one16:34
hrwnot from nokia at least16:34
SpeedEvilhrw: I was meaning you don't in principle have to be nokia to get n900 patches upstream.16:34
hrwSpeedEvil: I know16:34
VDVsxRST38h, what do you expected from a Java copy ? :D16:34
lupine_85it's a bit odd that they went with 28, when 27 is the long-term-support one, but never mind16:35
Stskeepshrw, .33 runs decently on n8x0 it looks like16:35
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hrwStskeeps: nice. finally16:35
ptlWhat kernel does Mer use?16:36
Stskeepshrw, and tony lindgren is patching in things16:36
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RST38hVDVsx:, nothing.16:37
hrwStskeeps: who submitted patches?16:37
RST38hVDVsx: But I really wonder how those indians get their code to work now16:37
VDVsxRST38h, and you can add M$ to that :D16:37
RST38hVDVsx: Given that the followin stuff creates an instant fuckup:16:37
RST38hVDVsx: List A,B;  B=...; A=B; B.Clear();16:38
Stskeepshrw, about to board so you'll have to dig yourself16:38
bilboed-tpRST38h, ... fail :)16:39
VDVsxRST38h, references, so that's normal16:39
RST38hbilboed: And a nasty fail, for that. Go explain this from the common sense point of view...16:39
RST38hVDVsx: Yes, but they do not LOOK like references :)16:39
VDVsxif you were a Java coders they will look, I guess16:40
* VDVsx doesn't knows nothing about c#16:40
RST38hVDVsx: I doubt it, especially considering that ints, for example, are not references16:40
lupine_85it's got to have primitives16:40
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VDVsxlike in Java, Int and Integer probably16:41
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hrwStskeeps: so far most of code came from @nokia - nice16:41
RST38hhrw: And expected too16:41
* hrw -> food now16:42
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hrwStskeeps: thx for informations16:42
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Stskeepshrw: alecrim did work too (mamona)16:43
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CorsacDocScrutinizer: trusted computing isn't only about drm, thoug16:59
josephnexusit's about your computer trusting you16:59
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ptlhrw: now that you said that nokia's N900 kernel is not as pristine, do you think (or know) Meego will be better in this regard?17:06
hrwptl: why it has to?17:06
hrwbecause name change?17:06
ptlbecause it's supposed to be 'more open'?17:07
ptlmeego comes with a promise17:07
hrwbase system will be more open17:07
ptlis anything more basic than the kernel?17:07
hrwand there is no definition of 'base system'17:07
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tybolltbut Stskeeps keeps (pun very much intended!) saying harmattan will be meego base + _proprietaru nokia shitz_17:08
hrwon call...17:08
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pupnikanyone here applying for one of those new nokia / meego / maemo jobs?17:10
lupine_85maybe in $some years17:10
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ptlNo. I fear that applying to such a job would corrupt me into a corporate-sold pro-proprietary developer.17:12
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LuciusMareHi, can i import/export the RSS feeds from the standard RSS app at fremantle?17:16
VDVsxpupnik, applying ? I don't have 10+ of expertise :D17:17
pupniki hope they get some great people17:18
Arif_werz ma firmwarz :o17:18
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ptlI hope they get smart, productive and pro-open-source people17:19
Arif_and then let them write closed source?17:19
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ptlwell, that would be better if they get pro-closed-source to write closed-source17:20
ptlbecause the developers would pressure for openness17:20
Arif_I have the feeling they'll never go completely opensource17:21
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Arif_I never used the RSS reader so dont' ask me :P17:23
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LuciusMareI want to keep a list of my feeds in sync with google reader17:24
KhertanHello All !17:24
Khertanregister is now set again ?17:25
* pupnik can't type17:26
* Khertan see pupnik typping17:29
DocScrutinizerpupnik: you're referring to what exactly? I might be interested17:29
* Khertan see at least the result of what pupnik type on his keyboard17:30
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pupnik:) bad joke, sorry17:30
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LuciusMareHa-ha17:32 :P17:33
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ptljust read in a forum that someone dreamed about his incoming N90017:35
ptland another guy replied saying he dreamed he was a modem.17:35
Khertanand ?17:35
ptlwell, that's unusual, don't you think?17:35
josephnexusi once had a dream that....17:35
* SpeedEvil has dreamed of tetris.17:36
josephnexusbtw, the n900 IMAP client seems to be working quite happily17:36
SpeedEvilI keep meaning to submit bugs for 'blocks'17:36
josephnexusthe only problem/frustration that i've really had thus far with mine is that you can't set an alarm if the appointment is for the same day17:36
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SpeedEvilIt has poor collision detection.17:36
SpeedEvilAnd no scoretable.17:36
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josephnexusand poor controls17:37
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Khertan <<< funny17:38
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ptlI had with the videocall thingy. I wanted that because my mother has a smartphone (although she is computer-illiterate) and she lives in another city. My 3G carrier also has a 10-minute-free videocall on my plan, so it'd be nice if I could use the front camera to show her the stuff in my house.17:39
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josephnexusaren't we supposed to have video support in gtalk and skype sometime soon?17:42
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bilboed-tpin 1.2 IIRC17:44
bilboed-tps/IIRC/in theory/17:45
infobotbilboed-tp meant: in 1.2 in theory17:45
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ponyofdeathhi, is it save to do an rsync -rav from one nokia n900's /home/user to another for backup/restore?17:45
tybolltca I only ever have say one "phone" shortcut on the desktop?17:46
tybolltie I can't have one "phone" shortcut per desktop?17:46
ptljosephnexus: yes, gtalk works, I even made a video in youtube showing how to do that. Amsn also works with video. But I am talking about 3G videocalls...17:46
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josephnexusi saw your video17:47
ptla lame video17:47
josephnexusbut I want to be able to initiate the call17:47
ptlI'll improve17:47
josephnexusthe video was epic17:47
ptlme too17:47
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tybolltDocScrutinizer: you forgot the derogatort ~lart tybollt for not searching before asking simple questions ;)17:49
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tybolltdoc: thanks17:49
aboyeri have an application that crashes when run on the n900. it is not producing a core dump howerver. why not? can i enable it somehow?17:49
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DocScrutinizeraboyer: catchsegv?17:52
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JaffaHmm, to run or not to run. That is the question. Whether 'tis nobler to suffer the strings and arrows of outrageous fortune or die in the pits of tmo.17:53
ptlwhere are the .desktop files placement configured? I want to do that too without changing the telephone application original desktop file17:53
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Jaffaptl: /etc/xdg/menus/ and /etc/xdg/menus/hildon/applications.menu17:54
Jaffaptl: Or, <plug>install Catorise</plug> ;-)17:54
aboyerDocScrutinizer: thx, but it does not produce any core files...17:55
ptlI installed Catorise17:55
DocScrutinizerhmm, maybe see 'ulimit -c"17:55
ptlwhat does it have to do with this case?17:55
VDVsxJaffa, please run, I can campaign for you and smash every single TMO troll :D17:56
aboyerDocScrutinizer: are the files store somewhere else than the current directory?/17:56
VDVsxdunno if I can accomplish last part :D17:56
VDVsxhard tasks17:56
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DocScrutinizeraboyer: sorry dunno off top of my head17:56
ptlcd ~user; gfind . -type f -exec grep rtcom-call-ui.desktop {} /dev/null \;17:57
aboyerDocScrutinizer: thx anyways...17:57
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Jaffaptl: You can see how it does it17:57
pgasaboyer: in the current dir, but you might need something like ulimit -c unlimited before running your app17:57
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JaffaVDVsx: Smashing does sound handy17:58
pgas(ulimit afffect the current process and the child processes it's not a global thing ... general theory I don't own a maemo device)17:59
* ShadowJK wonders if crash-reporter does anything useful for devs17:59
ptlJaffa: ah, ok. But reading the source code of catorise is overkill, I think. I'll try simpler ways18:00
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ShadowJKotoh im pretty sure the dev guide has a chapter or two on debugging18:00
ptlIndeed, I am already trying... gfind ftew18:00
FIQis supertux in early developing or is it just N900 that have an outdated version?18:00
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* noobmonk3y is almost at the weekend..........18:03
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Jaffaptl: What's the specific question then, and I might be able to answer it?18:05
ptlJaffa: just as tybollt asked, I want a 'sticky' phone application on every desktop without adding the application to every desktop. So I am searching for a way to copy the .desktop file of the telephone app, modifying it for X-Multiple-Desktops and then adding to my N900 desktop.18:07
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Jaffaptl: X-Multiple-Desktops?18:11
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Jaffaptl: Way I'd do it is copy the stub catorise has created (because of bug 8111) and then add it to each desktop. But that means adding it up to 4 times...18:11
povbotBug Catorise creates issues for dbus-activate apps (phone, messaging ui, etc ..)18:11
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hrwis there a tool which records calls by headset?18:23
hrwrecaller records only mic ones18:23
ptlJaffa: X-Multiple-Desktop is a .desktop file option18:23
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AndrewFBlackpoor noobs >
Jaffaptl: Supported by hildon-desktop?18:25
ptlJaffa: seems to, -- btw, I confused the name, it's just X-Multiple (=true)18:26
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Jaffaptl: Interesting. Anyway, because of bug 8111, I doubt you'll be able to do it on one of the X-Maemo-Prestarted apps18:26
povbotBug Catorise creates issues for dbus-activate apps (phone, messaging ui, etc ..)18:27
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ptlisn't this bug solved? I just launched the telephone app about 10 times from different places (catorise, desktop)18:30
tybollt~bug 811118:30
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ptlyeah, it's open18:32
ptlbut I couldn't replicate it here18:32
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satmdhrw: best file a bug with recaller18:41
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satmdcause it should be trivial with pulseaudio18:41
satmd(there's a monitor device for each input)18:41
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hrwsatmd: good idea18:42
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Jaffaptl: bug 8328 contained a workaround. Catorise creates catorise-rtcom-call-ui.desktop which just uses DBus to launch the single instance which must exist in the menu for it to work19:20
povbotBug all isn't showing All applications (especially the former main screen apps)19:20
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ptlJaffa: thanks for the info... :)19:25
ptlmy n900 protection just arrived19:26
TomaszDbody guards?19:27
ptlno, rubber case and screen protector19:28
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ptljust installed it19:37
_gpg_I have just started reading and i found the tool versy interesting, id like to know if such a tool is available for opelgles 1.119:37
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_gpg_my aim is to benchmark pvrtc19:37
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cedarhowdy all19:39
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cedaranyone know why i might be getting this error: insmod: cannot insert 'pl2303.ko': Unknown symbol in module (-1): No such file or directory19:42
cedarwhy i try insmod pl2303.ko on an n81019:42
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hrwok, have a nice weekend everyone19:46
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cedaryeah you too19:46
scr4vestupid question: (you'll need the SDL, SDL_ttf, RakNet and rudeconfig libraries)  <- will this app run on a n900?19:47
ptlyou have sdl and sdl_ttf on the n90019:51
ptllemme check this raknet and rudeconfig19:51
ptlcouldn't find them19:51
ptlhence you'll have to recompile them for the n900 besides the app19:52
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scr4veptl: - raknet src and rudeconfig are available. for an experienced java/python developer not knowing much about tux - how much time does such a port require?19:54
scr4veany guesses?19:54
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ptlscr4ve: does it compile cleanly on linux? it might not be to much, maybe you just need to download them on scratchbox and make a package for them. Have you read the maemo 5 sdk guide?19:57
scr4veptl: it does. sounds great - haven't read the guide yet as coding only with python /qt on the n900 yet ;)19:58
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scr4vejust curious because the game is awesome somehow.19:58
ptleven with python, there are some subleties19:59
ptllike running the script under so that it gets the UI improvements of Hildon19:59
scr4veyep. though its pretty easy anyway.20:00
ptlwhat is the game? IP Curve?20:00
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scr4vequite popular in german - something like snake with multiplayer mode, really funny.20:00
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ogun/usr/bin/install: will not overwrite just-created `/home/ogun/project/sources/clutter_0_8/debian/tmp//usr/include/clutter-0.8/clutter/clutter-version.h' with `clutter-version.h'20:11
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ogunTrying to build the clutter 0.8 from gitorious. Guessing it's either me or autotools being stupid.20:12
J_Psmarphone with MeeGo and intel atom..
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ptlSecondaryVideo call camera20:15
ptlso it has videocall 3G?20:15
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ptlis has 512 MB RAM20:17
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slonopotamusif someone remembers, i destroyed usb connector on my n900 1 month ago and took it to repair center. and guess what? they called me today and said it's fixed.20:18
Stskeepstybollt: what did i say? i said exact opposite, harmattan is debian20:18
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J_Pptl: and see cpu, is a atom and not arm..20:20
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J_Pptl: this a important and interesting of the merge of nokia and intel.. we will see nokia with atom processors.. eheh20:20
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SpeedEvilnokia and intel are not merging20:21
SpeedEvilthey are cooperating on a joint project20:21
Stskeepsare we still having that discussion?20:22
slonopotamuso_O 112 pages in usb connector thread20:22
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xorAxAxinterestingly, they are about equal size turnover wise20:23
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ptlslonopotamus: and does it work now?20:24
J_PStskeeps: not. Just notice that meego are in right way ;-)20:25
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slonopotamusptl, err... otherwise it wouldn't count fixed. i'll take in on monday20:30
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Djkrikkewhen I take my n900 out of my pocket, it looks like it disconnects my caller20:33
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Djkrikkewhen the phone is on the table this doesn't happen20:34
Djkrikkeis there any reason why this could happen?20:35
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ptlmaybe the accelerometer is disconnecting the call20:37
lupine_85hmm - weird problem with my 'conversations' app20:37
ptlmaybe it confuses with the gesture that disconnects the call when you lay it face down20:37
lupine_85it's not actually showing the conversations20:37
greenflyDjkrikke: was the screen locked when it's in your pocket?20:37
lupine_85well, it'll show the index of conversations, but not the messages in one20:38
greenflyit's also possible your thumb is hitting the disconnect button on the screen when you pull the phone out20:38
Djkrikkeim sure it didnt hit the disconnect button20:39
Djkrikkethe screen was locked yes20:39
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Djkrikkecan i disable the accelerometer on laying down?20:40
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ptlgood question, I dunno20:42
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slonopotamusDjkrikke, you did hit disconnect button. there was a related bug in bigzie, but it is WONTFIX20:45
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lupine_85does anyone even know what the conversations application actually is, to give me a starting point for fixing this?20:46
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ptlhow? what?20:51
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tybolltStskeeps: d'oh, my bad. Then that was perhaps Tomaszd that said that then?20:51
Djkrikkeive got an incoming call and disconnected. what was that wontfix buga.20:51
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lupine_85when I optified microb-engine, I ymlinked to the wrong location20:53
Djkrikkewho told about the wontfix bug?20:55
Djkrikkeslonopotamus, can you describe the bug?20:56
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ptlslonopotamus: 15:55 <Djkrikke> who told about the wontfix bug? | slonopotamus, can you describe the bug?20:59
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GAN900lol . . . my old middle school is switching to iPads for textbooks.21:01
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slonopotamusptl, very often accidental call rejects when pulling n900 out of pocket when it is placed upside down (natural position, when you pull it out and take to ear, it is placed correctlly)21:01
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slonopotamusokay, no more disconnects, moved to room with better coverage21:04
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ptlGAN900: o0 really?21:08
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ptlslonopotamus: so that's what I said to Djkrikke, due to the 'turnoff' accelerometer gesture21:08
ptlbut I couldn't locate the bug21:08
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slonopotamushmm... 1 moment, afair, it's among my voted bugs21:10
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Djkrikkeokay slonopotamus, so the problem is really the turnoff gesture and not the disconnect button?21:11
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DocScrutinizer~seen konttori21:13
infobotkonttori <~konttori@Maemo/OS/konttori> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 21m 11s ago, saying: 'now: mass effect time (just finished 1 for the second time, about to start 2 for the second time)'.21:13
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slonopotamusDjkrikke, the problem is that (0. have screen disabled 1. put finger on disconnect button. 2. pull it out (thus triggering screen enable) 3. remove finger) rejects call.21:13
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slonopotamusin #2 'it out' == 'n900 out of pocket'21:14
Djkrikkeok thats clear, thanks for the explanation21:14
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ptlit was no clear to me, is there a disconnect button on the N900?21:15
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ptlthere isn't even a connect button for calls... I have to call the telephone app on the device... isn't it?21:15
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slonopotamusbug 598221:16
povbotBug Phone unlocked when receiving call21:16
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slonopotamusinfobot, ?21:16
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povbotBug 5982: Phone unlocked when receiving call21:17
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ptl~bug 598221:17
ptl~bugs 598221:17
slonopotamusi was wrong, it isn't WONTFIX. it's just low priority and comments are not promising.21:17
DocScrutinizerpovbot: bug 66621:18
povbotDocScrutinizer: Bug Problems with Javascript setTimeout function21:18
DocScrutinizerpovbot: #66621:18
povbotDocScrutinizer: Error: "#666" is not a valid command.21:18
thopiekarwhere is jeremiah? our debmaster?21:20
slonopotamus~poke DocScrutinizer21:20
* infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind DocScrutinizer, pokes DocScrutinizer repeatedly, hilarity ensues.21:20
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josephnexuspoor tree....21:20
thopiekarwhy is there no python-dev package on maemo?21:21
Stskeepsask the pymaemo guys21:21
slonopotamusso, infobot is alive, just doesn't react to bug numbers :/21:21
DocScrutinizerinfobot *never* reacted to any bugnumbers21:22
VDVsxI think that another bot job21:22
DocScrutinizerpovbot did21:22
povbotDocScrutinizer: Error: "did" is not a valid command.21:22
VDVsxpovbot IIRC21:22
povbotVDVsx: Error: "IIRC" is not a valid command.21:22
lizardothopiekar: > apt-cache search python-dev21:22
lizardopython-dev - Header files and a static library for Python (default)21:22
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer, details... :)21:22
thopiekarhaven't found it on my N800..21:23
VDVsxthopiekar, is handy for that21:23
DocScrutinizer~tell slonopotamus about docscrutnizer21:23
DocScrutinizer~tell slonopotamus about docscrutinizer21:23
VDVsxthopiekar, did you search in the sdk repo ?21:23
thopiekarVDVsx: Not Found - The requested URL /packages was not found on this server.21:23
DocScrutinizerslonopotamus: so is that enough detail?21:24
* thopiekar is atm freshing up the canola packages..21:24
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer, jOERG. okay.21:24
VDVsxthopiekar, add a slash at the end of the url ;21:24
thopiekarsame here..21:25
GAN900ptl, yeah, I don't get it.21:25
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thopiekarmaybe a issue of konqueror..21:25
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thopiekaryes... konqueror makes a of :/21:26
thopiekarthank you VDVsx21:26
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DocScrutinizerthopiekar: not here21:27
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thopiekarDocScrutinizer: ?21:28
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DocScrutinizermy konqueror works great with above link21:28
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RST38hmoo all21:30
Pillummoo RST38h21:31
* slonopotamus yawns21:32
DocScrutinizer[2010-03-12 19:13:35] <kkito> * #maemo :Cannot send to channel21:34
DocScrutinizerkkito: see topic21:34
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slonopotamusDocScrutinizer, my konqueror will konquer your konqueror!21:34
josephnexuson my n900, what does the 2.5 under the bars and to the left of my battery icon mean?21:34
josephnexusah, so that's the tech used for data?21:35
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thopiekarthe maemo sdk - gui installer isn't working for me (UbuntuLucid 10.4)21:35
Pillumwhen can we expect qt 4.6 for maemo 5?21:36
slonopotamusRST38h, doesn't wonk on n800. there was supposed to be some amounnt of flash?21:36
DocScrutinizerkkito: (and any other users with * #maemo :Cannot send to channel  issue): /query crashanddie and ask for guidance :-)21:40
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RST38hslono: try it on desktop21:47
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RST38hslono: it is a large flash widget I guess21:47
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J_PI don't know if this is the right place for this question but anyway: I'm using QTcreator (download from and has support just for C++. Are plans for add support for Python on QTcreator?22:21
J_Pohh sorry, was question for meego chat..22:21
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AndrewFBlackit quiet in here22:37
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Funnyfaceam I right in saying that the N900 charges faster with the charger than through USB?22:51
Mekyes, charger is 1000mA, USB only 500mA22:51
Funnyfacekk :>22:51
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MohammadAGthe shortcut to enable browser mode is CTRL+SHIFT+O right?22:59
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AndrewFBlackFunnyface: Anything should charge faster off Charger then USB23:01
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AndrewFBlackkonttori_work: Ping23:05
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dnearyX-Fade, Ping?23:09
dnearyI guess you're not here, but maybe...23:09
dnearyAny admins about?23:10
dnearyAnyone else about? :)23:10
* AndrewFBlack needs ideas for a new theme23:11
dnearyAndrewFBlack, White on black?23:11
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dnearyAndrewFBlack, How about earthy brown?23:11
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josephnexusi'm here23:12
AndrewFBlackdneary: I have a white on black on in devel called Buildon I was going to use it for a project that is on hold right now23:12
AndrewFBlackwas temped to go all nerding and do a Star Trek one23:12
AndrewFBlacknerdy i mean23:12
VDVsxdneary, can I help ? (guess not, but maybe :))23:12
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dnearyVDVsx, I'm looking for my password for the mysql database on test.maemo.org23:15
dnearyI'd assumed I could access it without a password locally23:15
josephnexushow do you bring up the on screen keyboard23:16
VDVsxah, no rights there23:16
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redeemanhmm, any news on a "share via command" sharing provider?23:18
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fralsredeeman: theres a "sharing cli" or something project on that should have some code up23:32
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* RST38h laughs diabolically23:39
RST38h"Lenovo CEO says mobile internet products will soon account for '70 to 80 percent' of sales" <--- oh, finally, the businesses got smart and recognized that ThinkPads are no longer ThinkPads but Lenovos =)23:40
derfNow if only Lenovo would get smart and offer a ThinkPad with a decent screen resolution.23:42
RST38hmoo, derf23:42
derfI love my 15" 1600x1200 T60p.23:42
RST38hah, the sooner they die the better, given how crappy their hardware is23:42
SpeedEvilI want 2048*1536 12"23:42
derfBut I can't upgrade it, because they no longer sell anything like that.23:42
SpeedEvil100dpiscreens for laptops is _broken_23:43
SpeedEvil140 or so would be more sane23:43
derfRST38h: I've had a lot fewer problems with the T60p than I did with the T20, which was made back when they were still owned by IBM.23:44
RST38hderf: I am daily designing various ways of getting rid of T61p23:45
RST38hderf: It is the least usable laptop I ever used (old Dell Latitudes included)23:45
SpeedEvilRST38h: I can offer you my solution.23:45
SpeedEvilRST38h: Sit on it.23:46
derfI definitely don't agree there.23:46
derfAnd I had an old Dell Latitude.23:46
RST38hSpeedEvil: Does not work. In fact, I know a guy who stood on it23:46
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RST38hderf: Connecting to projector screws it up for ~5 minutes as it is trying to find the right resolution23:47
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RST38hderf: Removing from the cradle - another 5 minutes. Placing back into cradle - blue screen of death23:47
derfYou mean a docking station?23:47
RST38hderf: The LCD is of so low quality that I am using external one 100% of time23:47
RST38hderf: Yes, whatever this thing is called23:47
derfI've never used it with one of those.23:47
derfAnd I've had no problems switching to projectors.23:48
RST38hderf: + it is 16x9, probably usable for movies, absolute shit for work23:48
derfAnd mine is 4:3.23:48
* RST38h can go on about this for hours =)23:48
derfAnd I _love_ the LCD.23:48
RST38hmaybe you have got some (surprisingly) decent model23:48
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RST38hit is not possible to love T61p's LCD. It is worse than the one in R50023:49
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derfI would believe it.23:49
derfI got the screen I did for a reason.23:49
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derfBut, as I said, they don't sell anything like it anymore.23:49
derfYou couldn't even get it on the T61p.23:49
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derfApparently the glass maker went out of business.23:49
* RST38h hopes for the soonish removal of "like it" from that sentence23:49
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ptlI had a t61p23:50
ptldidn't notice anything wrong with it23:50
ptlI have a T400 now23:50
RST38hderf: ah, almost forgot, battery died in 3 months23:50
RST38hderf: just stopped working23:50
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derfThe one in my HP actually partially exploded.23:50
derfIt was no longer the same shape as when I had inserted it into the slot.23:51
RST38hnail it and finish the process!23:51
derfIt still kind of worked, though!23:51
derfFor about 15 minutes.23:51
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RST38hand then..... yes?23:51
derfWell, then it had to be recharged.23:52
derfThis was when I first discovered that the batteries were always under a separate warranty from the rest of the machine.23:52
derfOne that did not actually last 3 years.23:53
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OgunMmm, stinkpads. Totally agree that the T61 has an unlovable screen.23:55
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RST38hderf: Same about the display btw23:55
derfThe only real complaint I had about the T60p was that after two and a half years, the fan got really noisy.23:56
derfSo I called them up and they sent me a replacement.23:56
RST38hself installable?23:57
derfI had to tell them I had a Ph.D. in CS before they'd believe that I was qualified to install it, though.23:58
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* RST38h knows a lot of PhDs in CS who should not be let anywhere near an open computer23:59
ShadowJKcs is math23:59

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