IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-03-10

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acidjazzwhens the x86 n1000 out?00:08
acidjazzwhens my phone ognna be a brick? :/00:08
Arif_along with PR1.200:08
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acidjazzPR1.2 really comin out tomorrow?00:11
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* Arif_ runs00:11
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acidjazzare ou referring to
xorAxAxi heard PR1.2 needs a multitouch display00:12
Arif_no, I'm just telling everyone that asks00:12
Arif_I hear PR1.2 makes the speakers not suck!00:12
xorAxAxby employing a gstreamer plugin that does multiband compression00:13
xorAxAxor companding even00:13
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Arif_the stereo widening and loudness on older NSeries was nice00:14
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Hoxzeris there a way to make the image fixed the gallery keeps changing the pic00:20
Klownerhrm, if I need a daemon that runs in the background, can it also somehow provide a custom item in the preferences config app?00:23
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ds3on the N900, is there a UI to switch the USB port between networking, modem, and mass storage?01:00
SpeedEvilwell - between mass storage and another mode01:00
Venomrushactually only for the 1st time01:00
Venomrushonce you have selected a mode01:01
SpeedEvilthatp ops up when you plug in the plug01:01
Venomrushyou'll need to replug01:01
Venomrushto select the other mode01:01
SpeedEvilor reboot?01:01
SpeedEvilUnless you count the shell as UI01:02
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orbarronhi all... anyone knows how to stop my N900 from wanting to update?01:02
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dreginwhich rootstrap does the maemo SDK use for N900 dev?01:04
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ptlorbarron: why wouldn't you want that? I guess you'd have to mess with alarmd configuration01:19
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* orbarron has a hack environment and update is killing my hildon desktop01:21
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SpeedEvilTjere os a way to tell the indexer not to touch stuff.01:22
* orbarron found a solution by increasing the time01:22
SpeedEvillook in the config file01:22
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bartekxyzIs n900 worth buying?01:24
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T7gis sex worth the potential of having children spawn from it?01:25
Xisdibikthats very women specific T7g01:25
T7gAs in, it depends what you're into. Some people like missionary, some people like whips and feet01:25
bartekxyzT7g: that's not an answer01:26
Termana_n810yes it is01:26
Xisdibikbartekxyz: it sort of is01:26
Termana_n810hes basically saying - it depends on what you want/like01:26
bartekxyzI need something to replace my old trusty n9501:26
Termana_n810its not something we can tell you, its not just a yes or no question01:27
T7gI myself love anything Linux and so that fanboy part of me probably influenced my decision to buy it01:27
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Xisdibikbartekxyz: you experiance may vary but01:28
Xisdibikhaving bought the n900 before it was out and then recieving it,  it is the best phone ive ever purchased01:28
XisdibikIve done more with it than ive done with any previous phone, and the things I could do on both my old phone and htis phone.. this phone does 5x better01:28
Xisdibikand with that im off work, bbl01:29
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bartekxyzIt has good os and nice hardware... It's just that well.. Big developers don't give a shit about n90001:29
bartekxyzAnd i don't want to have only ports of linuxish apps01:30
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bartekxyzSoftware is always a second half of a phone01:30
bartekxyzAnd i want big library of quality applications01:31
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bartekxyzI can pay for it as quality is more important to me than being freeware01:31
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SpeedEvilthe apps are limited ATM01:31
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SpeedEvilNokia isn't helping.01:32
bartekxyzThat's why i have doubts01:32
jebba"big developers" will certainly be taking more notice to meego01:32
haltdefI don't see a need for big developers01:32
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haltdefn900 can do what my WM phone can do and then some as it is01:33
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bartekxyzIt's not a cheap phone and i don't want to be left with unusable brick01:33
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bartekxyzI se a need of big developers01:33
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dreginbartekxyz: I own an N900 after having had an N96 and N95 before that... N97 was AWFUL. N900 is really great.01:33
ptlI want PR 1.2 :(01:33
dregineh I owned and N97 not N9601:34
haltdefso easy to port existing and proven linux apps to it01:34
bartekxyzBlah blah linux apps01:34
haltdefthere's quite a lot out there :P01:34
ptldozens of thousands01:34
dregindefine "Blah blah linux apps"01:34
ptlit can benefit hugely from that library01:34
ptlyeah. What's wrong with linux apps?01:35
SpeedEvilbartekxyz: not happening. At the very least mer would continue - even if nokia and intel exploded tomorrow.01:35
haltdefthe idea of actual xchat or irssi on my phone makes me quite moist01:35
dreginweechat tbh01:35
ptlhaltdef: agreed01:36
haltdefcan't stand CLI clients :P01:36
bartekxyzLet's put it that way: i'm not a linux geek01:36
haltdefwill try both irssi and xchat anyway though, might be more practical01:36
haltdefme either, can't stand linux anywhere but my router01:36
ptlbartekxyz: you don't need too, many linux apps are very good and friendly01:36
dreginwhy not?01:36
ptlCan't stand?01:36
ptlI love the GNU/Linux way™01:37
dregineeehhhh the "... anywhere but my router" part01:37
ptlI thought moist was a positive world.01:37
haltdef.. not the point guys01:37
ptlXChat on the N900 is quite nice, irssi too01:37
dreginwhat *is* the point?01:37
haltdefpoint was I can't stand linux but all those linux apps on my phone .. yes please01:37
haltdefno need for these big developers when there's those :P01:38
dreginyou can't just write off every linux app under one blind generalisation.01:38
dreginWhy can you not stand linux?01:38
ptlWhy can't you stand linux?01:38
redeemanofcourse what people are talking about as "linux apps" really have very little with linux to do01:38
haltdefmaybe android would be better for you if you want these big developers01:39
ptlI can't stand windows and I almost had to quit a job due to this01:39
ptlI struggled with Windows for 4 months01:39
ptlits interface is too limitted, to buggy, too closed, too inflexible, too self-centered01:39
haltdefnever bloody works for me, so much effort to make basic things work01:39
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ptlhad to change areas within my job01:39
dreginandroid is linux based is it not?01:39
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ptlthen I could use a GNU/Linux desktop and my performance improved many times01:39
ptldregin: it is linux-kernel based, not linux-environment based01:40
bartekxyzlinux is for people who have time to struggle with every single thing01:40
ptllinux uses X, GTK+, QT and such on its applications01:40
haltdefmmhmm, no use :P01:40
ptlso you can't port applications in a very straightforward way01:40
ptlbartekxyz: this is a prejudiced misconception.01:40
dreginbig time01:41
ptlbartekxyz: in fact, most of linux comes configured and preinstalled, including an office package.01:41
redeemanbartekxyz: i spend less time doing administrating things on my linux workstations COMBINED than you do on a single winblows01:41
bartekxyzI like install and forget type of os01:41
dreginI moved my parents PC to ubuntu a while ago and they havent had any issues with it01:41
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ptlbartekxyz: you're justing echoing ancient myths.01:41
redeemanbartekxyz: how many times did you reinstall over the years? im on my installation from 2004-ish when i got an amd64 first01:41
ptlthey had its time01:41
dreginand SSH access leaves is SIGNIFICANTLY easier to manage from where I am without having to have hour long conversations talking them through every little step in windows01:41
ptlthey have been once true. In 1995, 1996, maybe.01:42
redeemanptl: not really, because back then the competition was even further behind01:42
ptlredeeman: good point, lol01:42
redeemanconsider this01:42
redeemanup until late 200701:42
redeemanyou had to use FLOPPIES to get microsofts OS onto a recent computer01:42
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redeemanhow very easy and grand01:42
ptlI didn't know that01:42
haltdefnever needed to feed xp sata drivers before01:43
dreginthe hard drive issue?01:43
redeemanxp didn't have sata drivers or ahci support01:43
ptlI don't have any real contact with windows and I'm glad for it01:43
haltdefdo not miss that OS though :P01:43
bartekxyzI use ubuntu in my work but it's 1/10 as functional for end user than win 701:43
ptlevery time they put me on a Windows machine I struggle to find things, to do stuff01:43
dregincan one of you tell me what rootstrap I should be using with the maemo SDK for N900 dev?01:43
redeemanand winblows still cannot even do proper window management that we have had for more than 15 years01:44
ptlbartekxyz: that's a particular opinion and it depends heavily on your user case.01:44
dreginbartekxyz: define "functional"01:44
bartekxyzAnd i dont give a fuck about administration things as i am consumer01:44
ptlbartekxyz: who said we do?01:44
redeemanwindow management is NOT an administrative thing01:44
redeemanits something that actually boosts productivity bigtime01:44
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dreginI can't imagine doing dev work on a machine that only has one desktop to work with.01:45
dreginThey become too cluttered01:45
redeemandregin: its far worse that you have to find the window title bar to move it, or find the corners to resize01:45
ptldregin: I can't imagine doing anything but the most trivial tasks without more than one desktop01:45
redeemanlike.. wtf, is this 1980?!01:45
redeemanor that you cant make rules for how windows gets placed01:46
redeemanso antiquated and archaic is winblows01:46
dreginoh well01:46
dreginI think this has gone waayyy off topic01:46
dregintyping fail01:46
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dreginyou say you're nothing but an end-user and yet you also have the authority to call this discussion gibberish?01:47
SpeedEvilIt's not.01:47
dreginquality loltroll01:47
redeemanhe has not even tried the good stuff01:47
SpeedEvilI want multiple desktops on n90001:47
redeemanhe installs ubuntu and talks about linux01:47
redeemanwhen ubuntu has NOTHING to do with it01:47
redeemanubuntu is nowhere near upstream, in quality or otherwise01:47
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ptlbartekxyz: windows use forces you in a mental state that you intuitively use it as the perfect model for comparison, and in this state of mind, every OS but Windows lose, of course. What you have to understand is that there are other intuitive models of interface and usage, also different applications, and the use of GNU/Linux is a whole new world, different ways to do the same stuff.01:48
dreginSpeedEvil: there are multiple desktops on it01:48
redeemananother favorite of mine in winblows is how one cannot move the window over the screen top, when you can move it down the bottom, or the the sides - BUT NOT THE TOP! the top is reserved by GOD01:48
ptlbartekxyz: once you get past this comparison point, you are prepared to understand better how it is to use another OS, not only GNU/Linux.01:49
ptlSpeedEvil: you want? You don't have?01:49
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bjvi insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/mbcache.ko01:50
bjvjbd and ext301:50
bartekxyzOh,so you think i am windows fanboy petrified by big corp? Brainwashed by commercial shit?01:50
bjvbut mount fails unhelpfully, while trying to mount my internal flash partition01:50
bjvmount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /mnt/external/ failed01:50
bartekxyzI am using windows since 200501:50
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bartekxyzAnd 15 earlier years i was using AmigaOS01:51
ptlbartekxyz: I don't know if you are but from your talk it seems like you're too used to the Windows interface. Anyway I believe I didn't say anything derogatory about your usage, I think.01:51
lardmanevening all (assuming the last one didn't get through)01:51
redeemanbartekxyz: and what did you use in 2004?01:52
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dreginbartekxyz: you said yourself, you were nothing more than a consumer. Do you have extensive experience with non-windows OS'?01:52
bartekxyzAmigaos 3.901:52
SpeedEvilptl: I mean wiht an easy way of switching between real virtual desktops - not simply different backgreounds and widget sets01:52
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bartekxyzI saim that whole 15 years before 2005 i was using amiga only01:53
ptlSpeedEvil: oh, but I wonder how would that integrate in a desktop with a small status bar and all applications maximized01:53
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lardmananyone know about gst multiqueue?01:57
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bjvbad news, i guess: The following packages will be REMOVED:  hildon-application-framework-rx34-rx44 hildon-theme-echo* osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked01:57
bjvThe following packages will be upgraded:  dialcentral gpodder kernel-diablo-flasher libdb4.2  libxcomposite1 libxml2 makedev pre-installed-documentation-rx44  tcl8.4 tk8.4 xserver-xomap01:57
lcuklardman, im sure some do01:58
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lardmanlcuk: apparently not on #gstreamer, no suggestions today01:58
lcukthats just bad form then01:58
lcukwhat is a multiqueue01:58
lcukand why do you need it01:58
bartekxyzFind me linux apps which can do more or the same that sony vegas 8,reason 4 and traktor pro with the same comfortable UI and i will switch to linux01:59
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lardmandunno, but I'm wondering if it's like an inverted tee, so I can push from more than one source01:59
lcukperhaps the question itself was just too generic to let people jump and assist!01:59
lcukahh this is wrt your wanting to allow file selection down the pipeline01:59
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bartekxyzOh,and i want quality drivers for my radeon video card01:59
lardmanv4l2 video source, occassional filesrc reading from image, how to combine the two in a pipeline? Teardown and rebuild when I need to read the image01:59
dregindid this channel suddenly turn into #convincemetouselinux???02:00
bjvi have totally never heard of those apps.02:00
lardman(was basically the question)02:00
bjvbut anyway02:00
bjvif you have a specific business purpose02:00
bjvthat requires specific apps, developed by 1 specific house02:00
bjvthen... protip: you need to buy the prerequisite OS and run it02:00
bjvthat is not a question of "switching"02:00
lcuklardman, so have you made a new gst element for procedssing directly in the gst pipeline? (and perhaps feeding results onto the pipeline itself?02:00
lcukor does the pipelne always end at your processor02:01
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lardmanalways ends at the processor, just need to swap sources efficiently02:01
tremnite all, sweet dreams02:02
lcukyeah, so if you get this working02:02
lardmanbinary sheep02:02
lcukyou could effectively just switch sources between front cam, back cam, video file stram or selected image02:02
N900evilptl, I suppose I really mean an effivient wayh to change programs.02:02
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lardmanlcuk: is probably possible to swap between v4l2 sources anyway by changing param of the v4l2 src, this is more so I can decode files by using a filesrc02:03
bartekxyzSo is n900 linuxish only deep inside or also outside?02:03
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lcuki can try to ask for you tomorrow, theres some multimedia ppl in collabora who should know where to look02:04
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lardmanwell if they have any thoughts that would be good, but I guess the lack of ideas was due to my needing to do a teardown if I change source02:05
lardmanor at least that's the easiest way02:05
lcukyeah, for switching cams i can see why02:05
lcukyou dont want to be running both streams at same time02:05
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b0unc3hey guys, which is the best way to call my own script on a specific dbus event ?02:06
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lcuki dont suppose the language matters, but if theres examples im guessing qt would be better02:06
lardmanno, just idea/relevant fn call would be useful02:06
* lcuk nods02:07
lardmanI'm going to take a look at just reading the pipeline, then unlinking the source and see if that will work02:07
lcukok cool, perhaps theres a gstreamer slideshow already made02:08
lcukwhich might give you more hints02:08
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lardmanhmm, I wonder, can I add an element to the pipeline but not link it (e.g. my second source)?02:15
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ptlwill try to compile it02:29
ptlI want lyx for my N90002:29
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corecodeanybody have an idea how to interface a dive computer to the n900?02:36
corecodeusb is obviously out of the question02:36
corecodethe dive computer does serial02:36
corecodeso maybe irda?02:37
RST38hcorecode: google for "serial to bluetooth"02:39
lardmanocr ;)02:39
* lardman heads for bed before receiving too much abuse02:40
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lardmannot worth thinking about the slight error an ocr recognition of a dive lasting 6 vs 60min might make ;)02:40
corecodeah hm bluetooth02:40
lardmannight chaps02:40
RST38hgood night02:41
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ptldoes minicom for the N900 uses bluetooth-to-serial cables or this kind of cable also needs usb host mode?02:41
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ptlMost lyx libraries are not available on scratchbox.02:58
ptlI'll have to recompile them also.02:58
ptlIs there an automated process to do that?02:58
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corecodeoh the ir port is not rx?03:12
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SpeedEvilwell - not if you don't need to recieve IR03:14
corecodewhat possible use would that have?03:15
corecodeswitch off the tv?03:15
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corecodeso it is no irda?03:16
corecodewhy do they do that03:16
RST38h"Due to the speed of the object, and the total surprise by its victims, no cover-up story was required or initiated."03:17
`0660do what?03:17
`0660not provide irda?03:17
corecodeput useful things on the n900 and then make them not useful anymore03:17
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`0660i don't think they disabled any functionality03:18
corecodewell they could have made it bidirectional03:18
SpeedEvilnot freely03:18
`0660they jsut only provided an infrared port for controlling entertainment systems03:18
SpeedEviladding a reciever isn't free.03:18
corecodeand the usb port could run in host mode03:18
SpeedEvilThere are some erratas on the chip that I'm trying to work out if they break USB03:19
SpeedEvilThere is a lot to read. The datasheet is 3300 pages03:20
corecodeoh god03:20
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ds3SpeedEvil: which datasheet?03:20
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ds3oh the TRM03:21
SpeedEvilthe CPU datasheet03:21
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ds3but why are you looking there regarding hostmode?03:22
ds3thought it has been narrowed down to a PHY thing03:22
SpeedEvilyes, it's not quite that simple03:22
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ds3can you elaborate?03:23
SpeedEvilThe bit that drives the USB phy has some bugs.03:23
SpeedEvilI am checking first that they're not a problem brfore investigating elsewhere03:23
ds3I know that CPU itself works fine in hostmode with a different PHY03:23
SpeedEviland also it's a bit of the system that I need to know about anyway03:23
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SpeedEvilIt may affect different systems in diggerent ways. Anyway. Now sleeping.03:25
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RST38h"...The player is then able to interact with the real world as if it were part of the inserted video game, including actions that are fatal to real-world inhabitants..."03:41
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ArkenoiRST38h, ?03:42
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RST38h"...was retrieved from incident 901-M-42, wherein ??????? ?????? used this device in conjunction with the game Doom to go on a murderous rampage..."03:42
ArkenoiRST38h, SCP foundation?03:43
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RST38h"...attempted to resist capture using Halo 3, but Foundation personnel were able to terminate the pair with minimal injury."03:43
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RST38hArkeno: of course03:43
FlavioFerreiraBrsomeone will be mentor at Google summer of code ?03:45
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FlavioFerreiraBrsomeone is user at Forum Nokia Wiki ?03:46
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GAN900I can't believe Modest stills fails miserably at rendering plaintext emails.05:36
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ponyofdeathhi, anyone here using t-mobile in the usa and having problems with sending emails to I cant seem to get nagios to send alerts or they are intermittent.05:59
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microlith1.1.1 really did stabilize bluetooth audio06:54
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sivangmorning all08:30
sivangI've added extras-testing to the Scratchbox Maemo, but it says it cannot fetch updates for the URL.08:30
sivangI took it from the wiki08:30
sivangI mean, the URL.08:30
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yigalso the n800 was put out in 2007.  I wonder how long it will be for a device that significantly superior to it in every way comes out.  I guess it's only been three years.08:38
sivangyigal: what sort of feature are you looking for?08:38
yigaltightly integrated open source OS, touch screen, 5-6" screen, much faster cpu, lots more ram, it's a total tool I'm looking at08:40
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yigalroughly the same weight08:40
arachnistyigal: for me, n900 is significantyl superior - i don't need to carry 2 devices with me now08:40
Wolfiewhat were the rumors about an os update coming today? or have i just misunderstood something?08:41
sivangyigal: so current N900 CPU is slow for you?08:41
yigalI want to be able to take notes, to think with my machine08:41
sivangyigal: IMHO it is only the OS which is not optimized for speed08:41
yigalsivang: yes, a bit too slow08:41
sivangyigal: right, but it is not the hardware.08:41
sivangyigal: I tell ya, we've done outrageous things in ChipPC to make an FPUless MIPS(!!) cpu take the load and be snappy and responsive08:42
sivangMaemo feels to me like a very rough experiment that hasn't gone into the oven of profiling and performance tuning yet.08:42
yigalsivang: cool08:42
sivangthe hardware is superb08:42
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yigalsivang: really?08:42
yigalso no need for 1ghz cpu with 1gig of memory, with a nice gpu?08:43
arachnistmore memory might be needed08:43
arachnistbut as for a 1GHz cpu? i doubt it08:43
yigalgpu? like tegra2?08:44
yigalfor instance08:44
sivangno need for 1gz cpu08:44
yigalsivang: why not?08:44
sivangiPhone has the same hardware like N90008:44
sivangbut is snappier and far more responsive08:45
sivangso, you see, Maemo is a work in progress, we might see a next Nokia device which is atom based (like the new LGs) running meego.08:45
sivangI reckon that would be a leap forward compared to what we have now.08:45
yigalsivang: but this is a chip meant for use in a thin client?08:46
sivangyigal: esentially, a SOC , like the N900 is based on.08:46
yigalsivang: yes, I hope we do see it08:46
yigalthe atom based meego device, and soon08:47
sivangyigal: only we had not FPU (so we had to manually bootstrap GNU toolchain to be hard float clean) and I did crazy stuff at userland level to make boot more quick, to make it eat less memory, to have a very thinned firefox etc08:47
sivangyigal: and it was a 400Mhz MIPS08:47
sivangyigal: far harder working conditions than in the N900 ;-)08:48
sivangN900 is like a desktop, it's not just a slogan.08:48
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yigalwhat about video playback is it mostly a gpu thing or cpu/gpu combo I guess it depends on what the hardware is08:49
yigalmy n800 couldn't play a video my G1 could yesterday, it was a sad day08:50
sivangyigal: on JackPC and PLugPC we used hardware acceleration on the GPU, but we had to code that support almost ourselves to the OS.08:50
LinuxCodeyigal, and your N800 is how old please ?08:50
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sivangyigal: (e.g. the drivers for linux were not in a agood shape)08:50
LinuxCodethat was a very dumb compariosn you made08:50
yigal2007 I believe?08:51
LinuxCodeN810 was out 200708:51
LinuxCodeq4 or so08:51
yigalLinuxCode: so it is also a matter of software? the n800 could have far better use of it's hardware resources?08:51
LinuxCodeyigal, its an old evice08:51
yigaljanuary 200708:51
yigalthat's when it was made avaialble at least via
yigalmeaning that's where I got the info.08:52
yigals/avaialable/available/ my apologies08:52
sivangooo, N800 is old comapring today's smartphones. It's a 400Mhz machine08:53
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yigalsivang: but you were describing a device with 400mhz with the right optimizations as quite usable08:54
sivangyigal: true, but for very limited set of tasks08:54
sivangyigal: as apparent by the application lock down we introduced08:54
sivangyigal: e.g. few apps available, all of them dramatically mangled to take the load and not bring the machine down.08:55
yigalsivang: mplayer?08:55
yigalor something like08:55
sivangyigal: We have a rather strong GPU though, to enable video playbackk08:55
yigalsivang: ah08:55
sivangyigal: and the Multimedia dude did an amazing job making mplayer use soft-float08:55
sivangyigal: not sure what was the GPU in N800/N80108:55
sivangyigal: and video playback had to be the only taks besides the OS's background hear beat.08:57
sivangyigal: Multi tasking was not really possible08:57
yigalI don't think it has a seperate gpu08:57
LinuxCodeintegrated PowerVR MBX 2D/3D08:58
yigalLinuxCode: ty08:58
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yigalI should have probably used all of the command line options for mplayer to drop frames etc to play to video, so I gave up too early09:00
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yigaldo people with an n900 take hand written notes, xournal etc., with it on a regular basis?09:10
Stskeepsi use conboy usually09:12
MiXu-I don't use handwriting09:12
MiXu-qwerty is faster for me09:12
Stskeeps(and my handwriting is shit :P)09:12
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yigalthe problem is attempting to draw images, and equations in math/science lectures09:15
yigalnotes using qwerty are only so useful09:15
yigaleven if I could hammer out 150wpm on a keyboard09:15
Stskeepslearn latex?09:15
yigalStskeeps: I know LaTeX very well but in attempting to write ad hoc notes LaTeX isn't a good solution09:16
Stskeepsbbl breakfast09:17
sivang /me goes for the morning ride and then breakfast.09:18
* sivang 09:18
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TigerTaelUh, this may sound stupid of me, but since I don't have my N900 just yet, is the USB port the only way to charge the phone?09:29
slackmagicTigerTael: wall charger works too :D09:30
Shrik3but the charger connects to the usb port09:30
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Shrik3so the answer to his question is "yes"09:31
slackmagicTigerTael: nvm, fail! i misread that question09:31
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tghm, after installing some apps all my desktop icons and widgets disappeared or became transparent and could not add them back anymore, and also the alarm did not make any sound anymore..09:34
tgafter i removed maegios & extended call log and rebooted it worked again so it must have been caused by one of those i guess09:34
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tganyone else had sth similar?09:35
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TigerTaelThanks Shrik3.09:49
TigerTaelMaybe I should consider a desktop charger or something.09:49
TigerTaelOr perhaps I should take a pro-active stance and somehow add some support to the usb port.09:49
TigerTaelBecause I don't think my USB port will last. ;/09:50
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TigerTaelDoes anyone know of any tagging software where I can go through the pictures one by one (Not on the N900, just desktop) and quickly tag common tags from a pool?09:59
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Shrik3picasa works too09:59
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WolfieiPhoto probably works too10:00
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rmrfchikhmm, nokia's skype replaces full name to login name every time when it logging in10:09
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TigerTaelShrik3, I don't want to have to type each one, etc etc.10:23
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Shrik3with both you can either click on the tag cloud or type the first few letters10:24
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Shrik3or even tag multiple photos at once10:24
Shrik3flickr does that too10:24
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TigerTaelNice, which one (non-web) software would you recommend?10:24
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TigerTaelPicasa works okay for me, thanks for the hint.10:33
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bleaderam I the only one unable to access extras-devel ?10:36
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reggnaHow do i insert the &-sign on the N900?11:16
marmouteuse the symb panel11:16
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reggnaAh, there it was. :)11:17
reggnaThanks. :)11:17
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TigerTaelHoly crap, that's a lot of force to push in the usb connector.11:29
SpeedEvilIt gets a bit easier after the first couple of cycles.11:30
ShadowJKit varies11:30
SpeedEvilWhat force?11:30
ShadowJKmy car charger's plug could lift a large full soda bottle without coming out :/11:31
TigerTaelI think I need to move those little legs. ;/11:31
* ShadowJK tried pressing down the teeth/hooks on it but it didn't seem to change11:31
SpeedEvilprobably an idea to change the plug11:32
SpeedEvilwhat force do the supplied plugs need?11:32
TigerTaelNot sure, but I was worried about damaging it already when I tried pushing it in. ;/11:32
SpeedEvilThis is the first time?11:32
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TigerTaelAnd what with all the USB port stories going around... I can see why. ;/11:33
ShadowJKSpeedEvil: when new mine probably required 10-20N to remove11:33
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TigerTaelSounds about the same.11:34
TigerTaelIt's mad...11:34
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TigerTaelDefinitely going to remove those teeth/legs.11:34
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SpeedEvilplugin force here is 1.5kg11:35
ShadowJKdid you import yours?11:35
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SpeedEvilwith the supplied USB lead11:35
ShadowJKspeedevil: oh got measurement tools?11:35
SpeedEvilkitchen scale11:36
SpeedEvilclamp USB lead vertically in small clamp11:36
TigerTaelI think I'm going to file off those legs/teeth inside.11:36
SpeedEvilplace on scale, zero, carefully press down11:36
tybolltthis is interesting11:37
tybolltI have the E71 as well11:37
tybolltOn the E71 plugging the USB cord is seamless, always works, no resistance or anything11:38
tybolltand yet on the N900 it's such a hassle11:38
tybolltstill - same usb-cable, just the phones that diff11:38
ShadowJKSpeedEvik: got a N810 to compare witt?11:38
SpeedEviltybollt: what insertion force?11:39
SpeedEviltybollt: or just hard to find the hole11:39
MiXu-Mine isn't _that_ stiff11:39
tybolltSpeedEvil: TWSS11:39
Shrik3does the N810 load from the usb port?11:39
infobotShrik3 meant: does the N810 charge from the usb port?11:39
tybolltMiXu-: TWSS11:39
ShadowJKshrik3: no, but it has a microusb port11:40
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tybolltSpeedEvil: I couldn'ät possibly measure the insertion force actually11:40
MiXu-I've played around with tens of N900's and had no problems with the usb port.11:40
SpeedEviltybollt: no scale handy?11:40
DocScrutinizerTigerTael: strongly discourraged to rework the micro-USB plug.11:40
marmoute600g for me11:40
SpeedEvilIt would be good if there was a exact partnumber11:41
SpeedEvilFor the USB11:41
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SpeedEvilso we could say 'insertion force exceeds absolute maximum'.11:41
tybolltSpeedEvil: but the point I'm making is - Inserting it in the E71... I can do that w/ eyes closed, w/ a single hand w/ the phone still on the nightstand. In the N900 case I have to pick it up, turn on the light, carefully aim and then wiggle a little bit and thrust a little bit to get it in.11:41
Shrik3that's N-series build quality for you =)11:42
ShadowJKSpeedEvil: it's not the port itself that breaks?11:42
SpeedEvilShadowJK: as I understand it, that's unlikely.11:42
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: it will be the attachment to the board.11:42
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: but the attachment points to the board are sized based on the nominal force to connect.11:43
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: those parameters are specified in general USB specs11:43
rmrfchikhmm, nokia's skype replaces full name to login name every time when it logging in11:43
ShadowJKfrom that massive thread I get the impression that the traces/lands/whateverJimnotapcbexpert detach11:43
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ShadowJKSo the port doesn't break, and it stays attached, but the thing it's attached to peels off?11:44
TigerTaelOkay, that's much better. I filed off the legs/teeth on my wallcharger, usb to phone coming next.11:44
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yes.11:44
SpeedEvilShadowJK: the port itself is quite robust. It's soldered to a ~2um layer of copper that's glued to the PCB11:45
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: afaik micro-USB receptacle in N900 is spring-attached11:45
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: not according to the datasheet11:45
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: the headphone jack, antennas are11:46
ShadowJKdocscrutinizer: the images of broken ports make it look surface mount11:46
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ShadowJKsurface mount for the most used port on the device, yes11:47
SpeedEvilthere are challenges for making it anything else.11:47
ShadowJKa port that experiences 2kg or more of force multiple times per day11:47
DocScrutinizerhope they got some decent via to enforce that crap11:47
ShadowJKbtw, unplugging it requires more force for me than plugging it in11:47
DocScrutinizers/enforce/armour/ ?11:48
SpeedEvilyou can't easily clip it like the headphone port, as it's very high speed, and that may effect the electrical properties of the connector11:48
SpeedEvilYou can't easily make it through hole, as that changes your whole process flow when you introduce a through-hole component.11:48
SpeedEvilthere are no other through-hole components.11:48
DocScrutinizeryou can place solder thru vias under the pads though11:49
SpeedEvilsolder is not noted for its great tensile strength.11:49
DocScrutinizerto anchor the pads and contacts to the PCB, not relying on glue only11:49
ShadowJKThey probably dont want to attach it to the case either... those highspeed camera clips from the nokia drop tests make it look like attaching anything at all to the case is a bad idea :D11:49
SpeedEvilbut, yes.11:49
SpeedEvilhighspeed drop porn?11:49
SpeedEvilerr tests11:49
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SpeedEvilI assume it flexes more than you'd expect.11:50
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ShadowJKI forget... it was on one of nokia's youtube channels.. but I forget which multiple personality disorder's youtube channel/blog it was :)11:50
ShadowJKYeah it looked more like a soccer ball than a case :)11:51
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SpeedEvilnokia n900 stress test11:51
DocScrutinizeron FR we seen quite a number of switches and mini-USB receptacles come off, mostly due to poor soldering. Was always easy to resolder as no harm being done to PCB afaik11:51
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tybolltDocScrutinizer: I think it's the make of the port itself - too11:52
ShadowJKkinda fun setup anyway, dozens of devices being prodded by pneumatic fingers to see if the buttons fail :)11:52
SpeedEviloh - not that one11:52
tybolltDocScrutinizer: The plug comes in easily on an E71... in N900 you have to force it in there.11:52
tybolltI call poor engineering of the N900 part11:53
ShadowJKI wonder if you can charge through the pads under the battery :)11:54
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yes.11:54
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DocScrutinizertybollt: it'll become more easy with a few hundred rounds of insert/remove. The receptacle probably is built in a way to guarantee minimum mandatory retraction force even after 10.000 rounds, while mini-USB isn't specified for that number of rounds anyway. And E71 might be older and more worn11:54
SpeedEvilShadowJK: where the battery pins are included in that.11:54
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ShadowJKI was hoping microusb pins11:55
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tybolltDocScrutinizer: E71 is certainly microusb mate.11:55
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I doubt it somewhat.11:55
DocScrutinizerI know11:55
tybolltDocScrutinizer: and E71 was as easy as is from day 1.11:55
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tybolltI never had a problem w/ the E71 plug11:56
SpeedEvilShadowJK: The pads are not - apparantly - listed on teh schematic11:56
DocScrutinizertybollt: still doesn't mean N900 is borked11:56
SpeedEvilShadowJK: and the schematic differs anyway from the reality11:56
ShadowJKHey something very weird happened yesterday. My N800's default battery meter was showing sensible values!11:56
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tybolltDocScrutinizer: not saying it is borked. Saying it is worse engineering than in the E71 case. :-|11:57
DocScrutinizer0% on a definitely dead bat? :-P11:57
DocScrutinizertybollt: the receptacle part isn't related to the case at all11:58
SpeedEvilUnless the case pinches it.11:58
ShadowJKdocscrutinizer: usually it's like 500mAh off, because it resets to battery-signalled capacity when full... which gets crappier and crappier as battery degrades11:58
DocScrutinizerE71 also might be a AB type receptacle, while N900 definitely has a B type11:59
SpeedEvilThe engineering of a port on a phone is pretty much limited to choosing a connector.12:00
DocScrutinizerinserting a B type plug to AB type receptacle obviously might be easier than plugging to B type12:00
SpeedEvilUnless they actually do some engineering to put in a sane dock connector12:00
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tybolltI've no fricken idea12:01
ShadowJKI'm glad popport is dead12:01
tybolltbut E71 is WIN - N900 is EPICFAIL12:01
tybolltwrt plugging the connector ;)12:01
SpeedEvilpop-port is much better from a docking connector POV12:02
asj-I'm so tired of hearing how great the e71 is12:02
ShadowJKhm, does e71 no longer have 2mm?12:02
SpeedEvilIf that's the port I'm thinking of12:02
DocScrutinizerjust for the records, a guestimated 500g insertion force here, both charger plug and USB cable to host, on both N900 and N81012:02
asj-it's a fine phone, but it sucks in so many ways12:02
asj-ShadowJK: e71 has 2mm, no usb charging12:03
ShadowJKSpeedEvil: popport has same problem as nintendo cartridges. Needs some rubbing, blowing and other acts of perversion to work12:03
tybolltsorry guys, I'm talking out of my (hairy) arse today12:03
tybolltI am getting at the E7512:03
tybolltthe symbian slider12:03
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ShadowJKah, I have an e75 too12:04
asj-don't get me started on the e75 kb12:04
* tybollt gives asj a pink pony ;)12:04
SpeedEvilCan I have one too?12:04
ShadowJKhm, it took me a week or two to get used to e75 kb12:04
* SpeedEvil gets out his cookbook.12:04
tybolltShadowJK: so do try the same usb-cable on both that and the 900, compare them12:04
* asj- shows tybollt what aussies (or kiwis) do with Pink Ponies12:05
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tybolltasj-: You can't paint this IRC-channel red mate :)12:05
zaheermi have an e71 but it is awesome, but the n900 is much more awesome :)12:06
DocScrutinizertybollt: so I suggest to report that problem of excessive insertion force to your dealer, so if you suffer from a really broken USB receptacle eventually, you have a way to document it's a production issue rather than you breaking it by rude handling12:07
tybolltShadowJK: what's the verdict then?12:07
ShadowJKI dont have e75 nearby right now12:07
tybolltDocScrutinizer: Well I never had to manhandle it actually... I just wiggle it... and usually it comes out fine :)12:07
ShadowJKwill test this evening12:07
tigertI have had several N900 units12:07
tigertnone of them had a broken usb port12:08
DocScrutinizertybollt: wiggle is worst thing you can do to it12:08
tigertI didnt trip on the cords though, nor did I especially hamfist them either12:08
tybolltDocScrutinizer: NOW you're telling me??? aaaaargh :D12:08
tigertbut they have been ok12:08
SpeedEvilPulling straight out is bestcase12:08
tybolltpulling straight out would require a shitload of force12:08
tybolltI mean _shitload_12:08
tybolltmetric ton worth of12:09
DocScrutinizerdoesn't matter12:09
tigerttybollt: something wrong wiht the port then?12:09
tigertor you are just weak :)12:09
DocScrutinizerit'lll become better with time12:09
SpeedEvilpulling straight out is the direction it's strongest - the attachment12:09
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ShadowJKyeah, I can't get any pulled out straight.. I need to do it one side at a time... I guess it's the two hooks12:09
DocScrutinizertybollt: listen to SpeedEvil12:09
tigertI usually pry it straignt out by pushing my fingers on both sides against the device side12:09
SpeedEvil(well - actually pulling slightly out and up in the plane of the PCB12:09
SpeedEvilbut straight out is the same12:10
DocScrutinizertigert: exactly12:10
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tybolltDocScrutinizer: what sjk says12:10
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DocScrutinizerit was the same with mine for the first 50 or 100 rounds12:11
ShadowJKand I do it same way as tybollt does.. I'm not sure if I'd be able to unplug it at all by holding the plug in one hand and device in other hand12:11
ShadowJKtoo much force needed :/12:11
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DocScrutinizertorsion force is worst thing you can do to the receptacle - that'S all I can say12:12
ShadowJKbut straight out probably doubles the required force12:13
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ShadowJKhm, I should borrow one of those fisherman's scales12:14
tigertthis kind of discussion can only happen among geeks :)12:14
tigertjust fscking plug and unplug12:14
ShadowJKthe one to hang fish in to weigh them12:14
DocScrutinizerso support the case by pressing your knuckles of the both retracting fingers against it, while holding the plug with your nails next to the gab between plug and case12:14
ShadowJKand see how many kilos I need to unplug straight :)12:14
DocScrutinizeriirc one of the prerequisites for micro-USB specs by usb consortium was to have higher retraction force compared to mini. Also have at least 10.000 round as compared to 5000 non mandatory for mini12:17
SpeedEvilThere is an easy way of measuring pullout force. Use the formula F=(rpm/60)*2*pi/.18312:17
SpeedEvilNow, get a stopwatch and the standard USB lead.12:17
villagerI don't need much force to unplug mine, never did, so if you need a lot of force, it's not a general problem12:18
SpeedEvilWhirl the n900 round your head by the cord, slowly increasing velocity, and time the RPM when it flies off.12:18
DocScrutinizervillager: ++12:18
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DocScrutinizerthough I remember it was for the very first few inserts/retracts12:18
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: :-D12:19
ShadowJKit's probably around 5kg straight pullout for me :P12:19
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: that's too much12:19
SpeedEvilIt's around 2 here12:19
SpeedEvilShadowJK: with the stock cables?12:19
ShadowJKSpeedEvil: well you could just use the accelerometer to measure peak12:19
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: :-D ++12:19
DocScrutinizernow *that's* a geek talk12:20
villageryeah maybe it took a bit more power the first few times after I bought it, but not terribly much... on the other hand, I'm naturally strong, I guess12:20
ShadowJKSpeedEvil: with Nokia's car charger. I spent a weekend excercising the hooks on wallcharger cable with my thumbnail12:20
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SpeedEvilThat would be a valid thing in bugzilla.12:21
SpeedEvilDoes force x insertion/retraction violate design limits.12:21
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ShadowJKthe answer is whine at nokia care :)12:22
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* SpeedEvil considers getting out of bed.12:23
SpeedEvilI might have a 2000W 50KHz powersupply coming today.12:23
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zashSpeedEvil: but why?12:24
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SpeedEvilI plan to see if my n900 will charge from this. (not really)12:24
SpeedEvilInduction cooker.12:24
SpeedEvilOr that's what it says on the box.12:24
SpeedEvilIt may get used somewhat for other stuff in addition.12:25
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you gave up on retrofitting your microwave bread maker machine with a FR based controller, or what?12:25
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: no - seperate project12:26
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: the microwave will never be usable for pans.12:26
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DocScrutinizer(micro-USB force) might well be possible there crept in some bad batch of components for the recepacle, or they got some mechanical problems with their assembly line or reflow deforming the component12:28
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tybolltDocScrutinizer: possible12:28
tybolltDocScrutinizer: anybody w/ E75 can verify the diff...12:29
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SpeedEvilOther problem is that even if it lasts 12mo - say - ...12:29
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crashanddieI never thought I'd say this12:31
crashanddiebut thank god for stereo vision12:31
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: yours back to normal?12:31
DocScrutinizerheh! :-D12:31
crashanddienot entirely, I still have massive blurriness12:31
crashanddieas in, I can't recognise faces on the TV about 10 ft away12:32
crashanddieand only a very small spot is sharp, so reading is very hard12:32
crashanddiebut at least my mac is doing the heavy lifting, and reading whatever happens on screen :D12:32
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: lklrsJK HNKSDJKH hbfhlhjs dsjkkd eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee12:33
DocScrutinizerread this ;-P12:33
tybolltcrashanddie: You lost vision when that asshole attacked you the other day? :-(12:33
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crashanddieyeah, pretty much12:34
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SpeedEvilGlad it's getting better.12:35
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SpeedEvilThe easy intermediate solution is to hold out your finger in the air, and rotate it in a clockwise circle if you want to see distant things more clearly.12:36
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DocScrutinizer:-P that's a joke for timeless though12:36
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crashanddiedidn't get that12:38
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SpeedEvilthe browser zoom gesture12:38
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* timeless_mbp looks up12:47
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karlososhey guys anybody there12:59
karlososi want to know if i should put i virus programme on my n900 if so which is best12:59
crashanddiekarlosos: no, you are all alone12:59
crashanddiekarlosos: no, you don't12:59
karlososbut what about roaming13:00
crashanddieanyone who puts an antivirus app on their phone is an idiot13:00
karlososwhat stops viruses getting on ya phone though13:00
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voidprayerExcuse me, what is the dialer program of Maemo?13:00
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crashanddiekarlosos: unless you download viruses (of which there are none at the moment), there is no reason to suspect viruses will magically appear13:01
bidossessikarlosos, for starters, maemo runs on linux, and is afaik virus-free for now. please keep us posted on any virus repot you hear of on that platform13:01
karlososok i will do cheers13:01
karlososjust was thinking cause it was a pc phone virus programme was a must but you have pointed me in the right direction and is all good thanks13:02
bidossessikarlosos, please read up on linux and virus, so as to complete your mental picture and truly appreciate the value of your maemo phone OS platform :)13:03
karlososi also tried to flash my phone to the new firmware cause uk doesnt have it yet but when i come to install it wont work i follow instructions and wont load any idea what i am doing wrong13:03
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karlososi run the new firmware app and a black screen flashes up then dissappears13:04
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andre__karlosos, what exact steps did you follow?13:06
DocScrutinizerkarlosos: this is a report too generic to answer13:06
andre__which operating system do you use?13:06
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DocScrutinizerkarlosos: please see
karlososi am on vista i went into command and changed what it asked me to to flash 3.5 then plugged my phone in and set it to flasher mode well switched off then run the firmware but it just flashed up and dissappeared and phone never did anything tried it twice now and nothing13:08
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villagerhe should also learn about sentences and how people usually separate them...13:10
DocScrutinizerkarlosos: the wiki is a little fuzzy on flashing instructions. For N900 the correct sequence is: switch OFF N900, start flasher-3.5, plug in N900 (will power up automatically)13:10
karlososwhen i start the command do i leave command open or shut it down13:11
karlososdo i need the download on my phone or pc13:11
DocScrutinizerit's not completely clear if holding "u" key during plugging in USB is needed on N90013:11
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karlososi press the u key and plug in the screen stay dark but can just see the connected symbol13:12
DocScrutinizerfine, so if you started flasher prior to that, it should kick off automatically in plugin13:13
karlososshould the screen be dark when i have plugged in13:14
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DocScrutinizerI'd guess yes13:14
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DocScrutinizercan't remember - too many days ago since I flashed last time13:15
karlososalso my download shows up with no programme to run it should i reinstall flasher13:15
mecekarlosos, did you check this wiki:
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karlososyes mece thats where i got my info from also on maemo where is the same13:15
karlososmy firmware was downloaded to my pc should i have downloaded it to the phone or is it right on the pc13:17
nid0the firmware and flasher need to be on your pc.13:17
karlososthe firmware isnt noticed by flasher is that right13:17
nid0if the "firmware isnt noticed" its because you arent putting in the path/filename right when you try to run the flashing command13:18
nid0load flasher, turn phone off, press u, plug phone in, enter the flash command in flasher > phone flashes13:18
karlososi think i now where i have gone wrong i downloaded uk flashe and global firmware is that the problem do u think13:18
nid0no such thing13:19
DocScrutinizerkarlosos: from wiki: ""Download the latest firmware (.bin) file and save it to %ProgramFiles%\maemo\flasher-3.5\ (the default installation path for Flasher) or to the custom path of your choice.""13:19
nid0the flasher's the flasher13:19
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DocScrutinizerand global version firmware should be good enough for flashing any device13:19
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karlososok i will have another try13:20
DocScrutinizernid0: nope. The correct sequence is "start flasher, *then* plug in"13:20
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nid0thats what i said13:21
DocScrutinizerooh, "enter flash cmd in flasher" - I assume that's windoze idiosyncrasies. No idea about that, sorry13:22
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karlososthe 'u' key is just the u key right lol13:22
DocScrutinizerthough wiki also tells 1) Hold the u key on the keyboard and connect the USB  --- 2) Run the following command:13:23
DocScrutinizerthis should be swapped13:23
nid0it does work fine that way round though, I tried communications both ways before flashing mine and it picked it up fine13:23
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nid0if you run the command first it sits at waiting for usb device till you press u and connect, if you press u and connect first then run it, it just goes straight on with flashing13:24
andre__DocScrutinizer, it works both ways, if one is fast enough. at least here :)13:24
karlososok i think where i saved the file is the mistake13:25
DocScrutinizerexcept if device decides to crank up mass storage mode13:25
DocScrutinizerthat's on linux though13:25
nid0it shouldnt do with u pressed, I think thats the difference - if you run flasher first you can plugin without needing to press u, but if you plugin first you need u pressed13:25
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DocScrutinizerwould make sense, yes. I seem to remember I had problems with "u" not performing as supposed13:27
DocScrutinizerprobably the question of *when* you start to hold "u"13:28
DocScrutinizerfriggin wiki could use some screen printouts of flasher output, for reference13:30
nid0probably be an idea to add info to it about the device information command, think it's just the -i switch or similar (it's in flasher's readme) - useful to just make sure that the flasher software's actually seeing the phone properly13:31
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karlososstill no go just followed your instructions and still nothing13:33
nid0"nothing" = what?13:33
karlososit flashes up a command then dissappears straight away13:34
karlososhas if my pc doesnt know what its doing13:34
nid0you're executing flasher via the run box arent you13:34
karlososno it says enter command13:35
karlososbut when i enter command brings a box up and dissappears straight away13:35
karlososbrings up a second command box13:36
nid0you type "cmd" into your start menu's run box and it just vanishes?13:36
karlososbut cant read what it says cause dissappears straight away13:36
karlososno after i put the second command in it brings up a second command box13:36
DocScrutinizerhe's not using terminal (err dosbox or what ever it's called)13:36
karlososi am using command in accessories13:37
DocScrutinizeractually the wiki doesn't tell to use cmd13:37
nid0it does13:37
nid0and you need to13:37
DocScrutinizerit just says "Run the following command:"13:37
nid0step 5 of the windows walkthrough13:38
nid0"5.Open the Command Prompt (Start then Run or Windows Logo key + R) and type cmd then press Enter. "13:38
DocScrutinizeraah ok13:38
karlososi have my command box open with programmefiles/maemo/flasher-3.513:38
DocScrutinizerso what's next step you do?13:39
karlososflasher-3.5.exe -F RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.51-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R13:39
karlososplug n900 in then put that command13:39
karlososits one i downloaded13:39
nid0type in13:40
DocScrutinizeryou seen "Replace RX-51_2009SE_2.2009.51-1_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin with the firmware you wish to update." on wiki?13:40
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nid0flasher-3.5.exe -i13:40
nid0with the phone unplugged13:40
nid0or yea, just tying in the right run helps13:40
* Arif_ is still waiting for PR1.2 ={13:41
karlososso i needed to put replace in thats i mistake i did lol13:41
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DocScrutinizer~lart wiki-editor of flashing page13:42
* infobot decapitates wiki-editor of flashing page conan the destroyer style13:42
tybolltArif_: didn't you know this is why Nookla has respresentatives in this IRC channel. So the Nookla reps have a word highlight on "PR 1.2" and then they all gather up and laught hysterically at us whenever someone collects a "PR 1.2" from an IRC-channel, community forum, or wherever ;)13:42
Arif_oh so THAT's why Nokia phones are so overpriced!13:43
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DocScrutinizerArif_: so stop mentioning this word, so nokians get bored with that game13:43
* Arif_ waits for PR1.3 then13:43
nid0what word, PR1.2?13:44
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Arif_maybe they'll port iPhone OS to the N90013:44
tybolltwhy on earth13:45
DocScrutinizerthey'll port Balmer to your brain13:45
tybolltthe n900 is there because people wanted to opt OUT of N90013:45
tybolltthe n900 is there because people wanted to opt OUT of the iPhone hystery13:45
Lumpio-I, for one, like my multitasking.13:46
crashanddiehow do I upload stuff to garage?13:46
hrwArif_: 1.3? not 2.0?13:46
Arif_I hear 2.0 is for new devices only13:47
lardmancrashanddie: what sort of stuff?13:47
crashanddiesource code13:47
crashanddieI need to release the codebase for MWKN13:48
crashanddieI need an SSH key right?13:48
crashanddiegoing for a ciggie, will look into it afterwards13:48
lardmanhmm, has been a long time13:48
crashanddieJaffa: I've had to limit the features that are going to be in this release due to my accident13:48
lardmanare there no destructions anywhere?13:48
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crashanddieJaffa: I'll leave you to deploy it on if you want to go with it, I'll upload it to beta so you can test it13:50
lardmansee if X-Fade knows, sorry has been archived or deleted from my brain13:50
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crashanddieJaffa: at the moment it opens a popup javascript window which loads the quote page to allow easy selection.13:51
crashanddieoh crap... snow in spain/france13:51
crashanddiewhy the fuck is it that everytime I need to fly anywhere there's snow involved?13:51
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lardmanit's cold at 35k'13:52
crashanddiewhen I was in southern france, I couldn't fly back to the UK brecause of the snow, and this weekend I'll be flying from London to northern spain and there's snow again!13:52
crashanddieIN MARCH!13:52
crashanddieok, really need ciggy now, 'later13:52
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* lardman wonders if someone will have released a bt enabled digital compass since yesterday13:59
* lardman thinks it unlikely so decides to do some work instead13:59
satmdwill have released?14:00
crashanddiesatmd: yes, that's conditional future, also valid would be "would have released"14:02
tybolltlardman: even if there was one - how'd you make $APP use it? :)14:02
crashanddiesatmd: if you really want to be pendantic however, you should criticise tybollt for saying "even if there was one" instead of "even if there were one"14:03
tybollttouché crashanddie14:04
Jaffacrashanddie: Cool; hope everything's ok14:04
crashanddieJaffa: I'll live, I just hope I'll get my 10/10 again14:04
Jaffacrashanddie: You should be able to `svn commit' if you've done an `svn checkout'. No SSH set up or anything, just uses garage username & password14:05
crashanddieJaffa: don't know if I did a svn checkout14:05
crashanddieJaffa: will see, I have to remember to remove the passwords :P14:05
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nomisthorbjorn: succeeded.14:07
thorbjornYay. :)14:07
thorbjornIrssi was saying I was banned, hence I couldn't change nick while I was in here. :/14:08
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DocScrutinizerheh, is this chan still +Q or +B or sth?14:11
DocScrutinizer+R even14:12
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thorbjornOk, I guess that explains. Still, saying I am banned it quite confusing.14:13
thorbjornis quite*14:14
DocScrutinizershouldn't be like that14:14
* DocScrutinizer remembers crashanddie messing around with +/-q/Q catchall14:14
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DocScrutinizer/mode #maemo q -> [Bannliste: #maemo] $~a eingetragen von crashanddie am 2010-03-08 04:20   :-(((14:16
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nomiswhat is "q" in this context?14:19
DocScrutinizermust not post14:19
crashanddie$~a means everyone who isn't registered14:19
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DocScrutinizerrmrfchik: .oO(???)14:31
rmrfchikGET UP AND DANCE14:31
tybollt\o/ \\o o// _o/ \o_14:31
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crashanddiermrfchik: much?14:33
rmrfchika liitle. haven't been there for a years. but this never get from top14:34
rmrfchikmy favorite among the lost computer14:34
karlososis noobmonk3y about14:34
rmrfchikdoes n900 has the compass?14:34
tybolltno it does not14:34
karlososbut you can get it14:35
tybolltkarlosos: how?14:35
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rmrfchikcomp-ass and keep-ass14:35
tybollttimeless_mbp: Would you mind stop doing that?14:35
karlososthere is an american site where you can pay for apps14:35
crashanddietimeless_mbp: what's he doing?14:35
andre__karlosos, please check your facts first?14:35
tybolltcrashanddie: join-leave-join14:35
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karlososyou can get a fingerprint recognition software too but they charge you for it14:36
andre__karlosos: if hardware is missing, hardware is missing. no software app will fix that.14:36
crashanddiekarlosos: what are you talking about?14:36
andre__karlosos, sure you talk about a Nokia N900?14:36
tybolltkarlosos: URL to the site.14:36
crashanddiekarlosos: that's a con14:36
crashanddietybollt: no14:36
DocScrutinizer+q karlosos14:36
crashanddiekarlosos: you're probably downloading crapware, please don't recommend it14:36
tybolltcrashanddie: ? :S14:36
karlososcompass meaning a compass on ya screen lol if not dont know what your on about14:36
karlososi aint recomending14:37
karlososjust saying there are places you can get stuff14:37
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karlososmight not be safe so i wouldnt try14:37
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crashanddiekarlosos: private message14:37
timeless_mbptybollt: sorry, my network is quasi flaky, and i'm mobile14:38
tybolltfair enough14:39
nid0i'd be quite interested in you /msg'ing that site to me as well14:39
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tybolltnid0: no he's bullshiting you14:39
crashanddienid0: you're an idiot14:39
asj-timeless_mbp: <shrug> it's a join/quit/join it's not even that bad...someone's over sensitive14:39
nid0I am?14:40
crashanddienid0: don't trust websites that charge you money for apps, when obviously nobody has ever heard about it14:40
tybolltasj-: I am indeed, other story, other channel.14:40
nid0i'm not an idiot.14:40
nid0curiosity != moron14:40
tybolltthere HAS been talk about an onboard compass soledered on there but not software unlocked...14:41
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tybolltI'd say it is atleast plausible or concievable there could be one... but well...14:41
DocScrutinizer[2010-03-10 12:59:15] * lardman wonders if someone will have released a bt enabled digital compass since yesterday14:41
DocScrutinizer[2010-03-10 12:59:36] * lardman thinks it unlikely so decides to do some work instead14:41
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DocScrutinizertybollt: there IS NO compass on N900 motherboard (or anywhere else inside that case for this behalf)14:42
asj-I think he's implying sending compas data over bt like nema14:42
tybolltDocScrutinizer: jaja14:43
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tybolltand well yes, the digi compass thing - even if there were BT ones. How'd you make say Ovi Maps use it?14:44
tybolltSince it is not on the device nokia will not make apps that uses it - right?14:44
The_Tall1Hi. Depending on there is no unittest module for python on N810, only in SDK. But this was 2007, any changes for Diablo?14:44
DocScrutinizertybollt: obviously not at all14:44
DocScrutinizerno way14:44
asj-n97 ovi maps didn't use the compass till pr2.014:45
asj-(timeframe anyways)14:45
tybolltasj-: but it was known that the compass was on there, ie it was presented by Symbian OS so you could make apps for it?14:46
DocScrutinizertybollt: you *might* hack the GPS NMEA to make the velocity vector become 0 but point to the right direction14:46
asj-too bad that phone has the worst gps antenna invented, it would have made a good navigator14:46
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asj-tybollt: yes it was well known14:46
tybolltOh well :)14:46
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SpeedEvilNMEA also does compasses14:47
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: really?14:47
DocScrutinizerthe GPS NMEA as well??14:48
DocScrutinizersounds like a silly idea14:48
SpeedEvilNMEA was originally a boating thing14:48
DocScrutinizerI know14:48
asj-yeah sure does, lol, heading14:48
SpeedEvilOr at least inspired14:48
DocScrutinizerasj-: heading != compass14:49
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asj-how does heading differ from compass data?14:49
SpeedEvilasj-: walk backwards14:50
DocScrutinizerI guess(!) heading is the velocity vector14:50
SpeedEvilasj-: you're pointing south while moving north14:50
asj-SpeedEvil: I can't chew gum then ;)14:50
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asj-SpeedEvil: point taken though, but the device we both pasted same device is used for exactly that, interesting for 10hz output they need a gyro stabalized version14:52
DocScrutinizererr, ???14:52
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SpeedEvilasj-: you can't accurately compute 'down' with just accellerometers and magnetometer if your compass is accellerating randomly.14:53
SpeedEvilasj-: As indeed it may on a boar.14:53
SpeedEvilBoat too.14:54
asj-if you are on a boar I suspect you have bigger problems14:54
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asj-bed time14:55
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: you're sure you're speaking English? Sounds to me like Engrish14:56
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DocScrutinizer10hz output, gyro stabilization, accel & magnetometer to calculate "down" - sorry doesn't make *any* sense to me14:57
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SpeedEvilThe earths magnetic field at any point on the earths surface is a vector.14:58
karlososok so i found out i wasnt flashing wrong it was vista. Needed to change the file name to something smaller cause vista doesnt read long filenames apparently14:58
SpeedEvilIf you simply take the components of that vector - bow-stern and starboard-port - on the deck of your boat - and work out your direction from that, it will both be inaccurate other than pointing north or south or east or west, and whenever the boat tilts.14:59
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DocScrutinizerooh tilt15:00
SpeedEvilYou need to also know what down is - in order to compare the vector of the magnetic field with the down vector - and work out your pointing.15:00
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DocScrutinizerI se15:00
* RST38h yawns at all the present15:00
SpeedEvilFor a non-accellerating compass, this can be done with just an accellerometer.15:00
SpeedEvilIf you're accellerating, you need gyros too.15:00
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rangeAnd Ouzo!15:01
SpeedEvilToday I made a water-bowl compass.15:01
SpeedEvilTo work out if you could use magnets to stop balloon payloads twisting on their string.15:02
DocScrutinizeraccidentally? :-D15:02
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SpeedEvilIt was either that, or spend half an hour trying to remember how to integrate the interaction of two magnetic fields, and being unsure I'd done it right.15:02
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RST38hSpeedEvil: You definitely want small jet engines with that!15:02
* RST38h hides15:03
SpeedEvilRST38h: not so easy on 1Kg payloads.15:03
SpeedEvilFun stuff - 10mW comms going 500km15:03
RST38hwell, really small jet engines15:04
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RST38hWhy 10mW though?15:04
SpeedEvilRST38h: regulatory limit15:04
SpeedEvil(in the UK)15:04
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SpeedEvilRecent launches we've had >5 people tracking launches and uploading their recieved data to a live tracker.15:05
SpeedEvilWith real-time updating of a predicted path from the current point using atmospheric models.15:06
SpeedEvilatmospheric weather models.15:06
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RST38hioquake3 got updated15:09
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Arif_does it make toast now?15:11
SpeedEvilArif_: no - you still need to do lots of 3g transfer to make toast15:12
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* SpeedEvil wonders about purchasing broken n900s.15:17
RST38hit no longer starts15:18
Arif_why would you buy broken hardware15:18
SpeedEvilArif_: to disassemble.15:18
SpeedEvilSeveral reasons - as parts to mod with - and for information15:18
Arif_you should mod the speakers15:19
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Arif_and then mod my N90015:19
SpeedEvilArif_: probaby very non-trivial15:19
Arif_you should anyway :P15:19
Arif_replace them with the 5800 or N95 ones15:19
SpeedEvilArif_: it'd involve sourcing speakers that would fit in the same places.15:19
SpeedEvilAnd are louder, and don't sound bad.15:19
SpeedEvilThis is likely to take _lots_ of effort.15:20
MiXu-Why would you mod the speakers. They aren't that bad.15:20
SpeedEvilAs the sort of speakers aren't readily available.15:20
Arif_easier to wait for a new device? :p15:20
Arif_MiXu-, they're a cracklefest if you put them on max15:20
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MiXu-Let me rephrase. They aren't that bad considering it's a cellphone.15:21
Arif_they're horrible for a cellphone !15:21
SpeedEvilBut for example, it would be a lot easier to work out what all the debug pads did if you could open it up and look.15:21
MiXu-And when you're talking about cellphones, the speakers are crap by definition.15:21
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SpeedEvilwhere open it up possibly includes desoldering all the parts15:21
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* Arif_ will probably go to a symbian phone if coreplayer gets releaed for it :D15:22
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RST38hcoreplayer exists for symbian15:22
Arif_not for v515:22
RST38hso, do not let the revolving door stop you15:22
Arif_only on 3rd edition15:22
* RST38h has seen coreplayer on v5, in the last 6 months15:23
RST38hor maybe it was the smartplayer15:23
Arif_and you got it to work? :P15:23
RST38hseemed to work ok on a few sample videos15:23
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peturDoes somebody know how the HAM schedules its updates? It downloads 5+ MB everytime so I want to reduce its frequency or even switch to manual updates.15:24
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Arif_no s60v5 there15:24
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RST38hsmartplayer then15:25
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Arif_you mean smartmovie?15:25
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Arif_that's the biggest pos I've ever used15:26
Arif_on the 6600 :P15:26
RST38hwell, looked ok to me both on e70 and the 580015:26
RST38hhave to recode movies for it though15:26
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Arif_and it doesn't have the feature I use the msot in coreplayer (streaming)15:27
RST38hoh well, I guess you will have to suffer n900 then15:27
Arif_it's not bad compared to android/WM/iPhone :P15:27
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* lardman reads history15:31
lardmanthat compass looks quite chunky15:31
lardmanand getting dear with the addition of power + a serial BT dongle15:31
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: get another one for me ;-)  -  I wonder if the FM-TX might be reworked to operate at 433 @ 10mW15:31
Arif_new DVBViewer version15:32
DocScrutinizershould make a nice payload15:32
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I wish the fmrx and the fmtx was integrated.15:32
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: the fmtx has a nice antenna tuner on it15:32
dnearyHi all15:32
dnearyX-Fade, Busy?15:32
lardmanhi Dave15:32
dnearyHi lardman15:32
tybolltArif_: dvbviewer??15:33
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Arif_on PC :P15:33
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: auto SWR adaption15:33
FIQthe fedora livecd failed. :(15:34
FIQ(i'm going to install Fedora on my pc)15:34
FIQno chromium for debian arm?15:34
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Arif_someone promote another app to extras15:48
Arif_we'll have 200 :D15:48
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haltdef2 weeks 2 days until payday15:49
* haltdef gets impatient15:49
Arif_you're planning on buying something? :P15:50
haltdefn900 :P15:50
Arif_that's not exciting!15:50
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Arif_just send the money to me15:50
haltdefwas gonna get an i7 but after seeing the n900 in action that went out of the window15:50
Arif_buy it from newegg15:51
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Arif_they have great i7s15:51
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* RST38h got a letter from the son of brunei's prime minister15:52
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RST38hHow touching!15:52
haltdefso I'm allowed earphones in at work when the store's closed, makes it easier15:52
Arif_he's offering you half his gold?15:52
haltdefturns out shelf stacking is mind numbingly boring15:52
dnearyI'm wondering whether the people who have been nominated for election but haven't said anything yet15:52
Arif_anyone know if its possible to hide icons from the menu?15:53
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freemorHi, I just got my N800 a few days ago and was wondering if there is a way to uninstall flash?I currently have it disabled but would like to remove it if I can15:54
star314Wow, what a big userlist in this channel :)15:54
DocScrutinizerRST38h: offer to invite him for a visit, but he should pay for accomodation ;-D15:54
Arif_why did you get an N80015:55
freemorGood price point, linux, hackadle, etc15:56
freemorI'll probably try Mer once I gget more comfortable wwith it15:56
DocScrutinizerfreemor: how much?15:56
DocScrutinizererr, USD?15:57
DocScrutinizerhmm, nice toy for that pricetag15:57
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freemorMy old palm zire 72 was dying15:58
star314I have to switch my mobile phone at work and I have two different options. The first is a N900 and the other one is a Milestone (Android). Both devices feature advantanges as well as disadvantages.15:58
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Arif_Android :|15:59
star314I guess I will go with the N900.15:59
DocScrutinizermilestone is *crap*15:59
burchrstar314: you know what answer you're going to get here, right?15:59
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Arif_you should get an iPhone!15:59
burchr~lart Arif_15:59
* infobot grabs a large, mis-shapened log, with squirrels, and beats Arif_ until only the nuts remain ... which the squirrels run off with15:59
star314That was just my starting sentence :)15:59
star314Arif_: nop15:59
Arif_everyone on the forum seems to say that16:00
Arif_at the smallest complaint about the N900...16:00
Arif_so I'll just say it in advance :P16:00
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DocScrutinizerArif_: you troll!16:01
Arif_but yeah....16:01
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Arif_android has more (read: any) paid apps16:01
Arif_and the N900 is leethax16:02
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TomaszD199 apps16:03
TomaszDnearly there ;)16:03
star314Arif_: I like to own a phone which does what I want and not was apple want. :P16:03
Arif_jailbreak it :P16:03
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Arif_and apple doesn't want you to own a miledroid16:04
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star314Arif_: yeah, that's the (what I think) only advantage of android. The number of apps.16:06
star314But everything I need is supported by the N900 too, e.g., openvpn, exchange sync, and ssh.16:07
Arif_I'd go for the N900 personally16:07
Arif_you can actually watch movies on it!16:07
DocScrutinizerso how's a large number of crap apps you have to pay for any advantage then?16:07
Arif_you get games16:08
star314I don't need games.16:08
DocScrutinizerArif_: you're begging for my ignore list16:08
Arif_go ahead16:09
star314A large number of apps may result in a higher propability to find a certain tool.16:09
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star314I'm just one thing away from buying a N900. Are there any infos about how Nokia will handle upgrades?16:10
DocScrutinizerwhat upgrades?16:10
star314e.g., from 5 to 6.16:10
star314maeno version16:10
DocScrutinizerthere'll be no maemo6 it seems16:11
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DocScrutinizersee #meego16:11
DocScrutinizeralso see there:
star314ah, I see16:12
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TomaszDDocScrutinizer, why the FUD? MeeGo is an open-source base for Maemo6 which is going to include proprietary Nokia applications, what is so hard to get here?16:13
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* tybollt spose a fair few maemo devs at nookla deserves a pink pony today... stiff upper lip lads...16:13
DocScrutinizerThe_Tall1: FUD??16:14
TomaszD<DocScrutinizer> there'll be no maemo6 it seems16:14
DocScrutinizerTomaszD: ^^16:14
* Arif_ sends tybollt a pink panther16:14
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TomaszDyou're just guessing without reading right?16:14
Myrttiaw, I want a pink pony too16:15
TomaszDMaemo 6 is an instance of MeeGo16:15
tybolltthat is confusing at best16:15
TomaszDno, no it's not16:15
TomaszDMeeGo is a barebones base system, no proprietary applications16:15
TomaszDMaemo 6 is going to build upon that base with proprietary applications16:16
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DocScrutinizercitation needed16:16
TomaszDyou give me a citation where you found that there will be no maemo 6 first please16:16
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StskeepsTomaszD: actually, no :P16:17
Stskeepsmaemo 6 is a instance of meego, not based on meego i thi :P16:17
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Stskeeps(don't ask me how they made that up)16:17
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rmrfchikstar314: i also was terrified with FUD and had trolled here. Now I have n900 and very happy with it16:18
rmrfchikeven with maemo5 it's coooool ;)16:18
tybolltStskeeps: if you people paid to know this can't make up yer friggin minds, how the h... are us users supposed to wrap our heads around this? :)16:18
TomaszDStskeeps, that's fucked up, are they going to keep the debian base for it?16:18
burchrtybollt: marketing, not technical16:19
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Stskeepstybollt: 'you people'? :P16:19
tybolltburchr: hrrrrrmarketing heebie jeebies :)16:19
Stskeeps(i'm not in any position to make any decisions, thank god)16:19
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burchrStskeeps: but we'll blame you for it anywy16:20
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burchrsimply because you're here16:20
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TomaszDget Stskeeps on the blame train, all aboard16:20
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StskeepsTomaszD: i consider that particular statement about maemo6 being meego instance one of the worst screwups i've heard in a while16:20
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TomaszDinteresting, it would then seem as if Maemo 6 is the "dead" end16:21
star314rmrfchik: And the stability of the N900 is fine? I have had a couple of nokia phones before and some of them need a reset&reboot quite often. :(16:21
VDVsxlast time I checked maemo6 was based on debian, does that changed ?16:21
burchrVDVsx: no16:21
StskeepsTomaszD: from app point of view, it's just packaging16:21
burchr(at least, not as far as I've heard)16:21
rmrfchikstar314: no reboot since then16:22
hrwTomaszD: it was already decided that maemo6 will be meego based and no sign of Debian will be there16:22
burchrstar314: I haven't turned my phone off since I upgraded it last16:22
Stskeepshrw: [citation needed]16:22
burchr(= a long while now)16:22
star314burchr: hehe16:22
rmrfchikahh. yesterday status bar went mad and eat all CPU (checked with /usr/bin/top), and had to rebbot16:22
TomaszDhmm, I will take Stskeeps' And VDVsx's words over yours hrw16:22
star314The upgrade was five minutes ago ;)16:22
hrwTomaszD: and, as >10y Debian user, I am happy with get rid of 'Debian base' in next maemo.16:22
Stskeepsoh, we're all happy to get rid of that16:23
Stskeepsit's just not going to happen in harmattan16:23
hrwTomaszD: I am fine with it16:23
* VDVsx hugs debian :)16:23
TomaszDthis means that maemo 5 apps are a bit more future proof than I thought16:23
VDVsxin the end is only the packaging that changes, so not a bit deal16:24
TomaszDyeah, but still, a bit of a hassle16:24
VDVsxperhaps rpm is easier than deb (really dunno, never package a rpm :P)16:25
DocScrutinizerther's been a word of quim iirc saying all maamo apps will run on meego16:25
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Stskeepsreally? :P16:25
TomaszDstill waiting for the quote DocScrutinizer16:25
VDVsxI heard at #Qt-xx that Qt creator will do the package for you (only Qt apps)16:26
DocScrutinizerTomaszD: fine, that's the state I like you to keep16:26
TomaszDif you can't find any, then it really was FUD, so no need to get your panties in a twist if someone calls you out on it16:26
* hrw is waiting for first available ARM image of meego before discusssing more16:26
VDVsxit's linux, almost everything is possible (apart from the closed sh**) :D16:27
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DocScrutinizerTomaszD: you're next on my ignore list, answering a "citation needed" with the same reply and insisting yours is prior to mine16:27
tybolltwe are all too busy flinging poo (how very typical linux style) at each other to work out what the hell is going to happen :-|16:28
Stskeepsyay poo16:28
tybolltrecipe for success?16:28
TomaszDDocScrutinizer, what I did is called you out when you said that there will be no maemo 6, which is blatantly not true, go ahead and ignore me16:28
rmrfchikcan I read SMS from cli?16:28
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rmrfchikand contact info16:28
KhertanHello everyone !::16:29
rmrfchikit's Khertan! QUICK GET IN THE CAR!16:29
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Khertangnié ?16:30
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VDVsxwho wants java in the n900 ? :D16:31
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VDVsxalso portrait support :D16:32
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Arif_oh oh16:34
Arif_j2me games \o/16:34
Khertanreally look like a good copy16:34
Khertanuntil you see screenshots :)16:34
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Khertanand MMS !16:34
tybolltWasn't there someone in here who was actually considering running JBOSS on his N900 though? :D16:34
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* VDVsx gonna use this link at talk over and over again every time someone asks for java or full portrait16:34
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* Khertan say to VDVsx that he can also use it for meme 16:35
* Khertan say to VDVsx that he can also use it for mms16:35
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Arif_its only 77GBP16:35
KhertanInternal Memory  0.25M16:36
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qgilN900hi there, does anybody know how many users have voting rights in the council election?16:36
TomaszDit doesn't have a touchscreen, yet there are buttons there you would tap16:36
tybollt? isn't it a Symbian 5 device?16:37
lcukqgilN900, not sure, doesnt dneary normally collate a list from information from x-fade16:37
VDVsxquestion on fake n900 page: does this have resistive or capacitive touch functionality?16:37
dnearylcuk, Just catching up now :)16:37
qgilN900yes, I'm pinging him through jabber...16:37
dnearyEero sent me the list yesterday16:38
VDVsxA:       Sorry, but this device does not have a touchscreen function.16:38
Arif_Change the wallpaper and song by shaking the phone16:38
qgilN900hi dneary !16:38
Arif_Dual Camera - Front and rear lenses for a more versatile shot.16:38
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dnearyhi qgilN90016:38
qgilN900fake n900 page?16:38
Khertanhi qgilN90016:38
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VDVsxqgilN900, has java /mms and full portrait ;)16:39
Arif_I think it has a analog TV tuner16:39
VDVsxthat's the Nokla one16:39
tybolltqgilN900: you might like to know - we're all up in arms in here calling each other names and whatnot due to the meego vs maemo6/harmattan thing :)16:39
rangeE-book Format: TXT16:39
* Stskeeps decides to call it a working day and heads off16:40
rmrfchikI wonder is canola2 good on n900 as it on n810?16:40
dnearyqgilN900, Approx. 375016:40
dnearyA few more or less depending on join dates16:40
Arif_the camera is 640x48016:40
VDVsxdneary, only ?16:41
VDVsxout of +22.00016:41
dnearyVDVsx, Out of 33,00016:41
qgilN900dneary thanks!16:41
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qgilN900that number makes sense vdvsx16:42
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VDVsxis 3 months the requirement ?16:42
dnearyVDVsx, Yes, plus 10 karma16:43
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qgilN900tybolt anything specific or new about MeeGo / Harmattan to be up in arms?16:43
rmrfchikno one use canola2? o_O16:43
dnearyThere are quite a few zero karma, which is odd16:43
dnearyAll recently joined16:43
tybolltmmmmh canola... *drools*16:44
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dnearyI wonder if karma is recalculated every day...16:44
SpeedEvildneary: every couple of days16:44
TomaszDrmrfchik, canola2 works much faster on the n900 than on the n81016:44
TomaszDother than that, no difference16:44
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VDVsxdneary, probably there's some bug because they should have at least 3 points from garage16:44
tybolltqgilN900: Not really anything substantially new no. I guess that's the thing - everyone has an opinion noone can back it up. :-)16:44
dneary~200 0 karma16:45
dgdfgsdfis there a compcache or ramzswap for n900 ?16:45
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SpeedEvilcompcache/ramz would be nice.16:46
SpeedEvilAs would someone teaching the swap algo how to deal with flash16:46
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dneary23778 people have 3 karma16:47
dnearyVDVsx, They only get their Garage points when karma is recalculated (the all created 2010-03-08, 2010-03-07 or 2010-03-06)16:47
dgdfgsdfi really miss ramzez from my n80016:48
VDVsxdneary, I know, so is correct16:48
dgdfgsdfafter installing it, it was like a new lease on life16:48
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dgdfgsdfnow my n900 is running very sluggish whenever it is using any swap16:49
peturDoes somebody know how the HAM schedules its updates? It downloads 5+ MB everytime so I want to reduce its frequency or even switch to manual updates.16:50
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GAN900TomaszD, DocScrutinizer is right, FYI.16:50
GAN900TomaszD, there is no Maemo 6 since they're now calling Harmattan MeeGo. Despite the platform not actually changing at all.16:51
dgdfgsdfLoCusF: anything in the works for Ramzez on the n900?16:51
hrwrmrfchik: canola on n900 is worse then on n81016:51
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hrwrmrfchik: canola2 does not index MyDocs on n900 and UI needs few changes to follow maemo5 styleguide16:53
GAN900That the MeeGo/Harmattan thing is confusing enough to stumble veterans like hrw is proof enough that it's a stupid idea. ;)16:53
TomaszDGAN900, so the name is changed, but nothing else, it would have been called Maemo 6 if it wasn't for the appearance of MeeGo, right?16:54
GAN900TomaszD, seems that way.16:54
TomaszDit indeed is confusing.16:54
tybollt15:15 < tybollt> that is confusing at best16:55
tybollt15:15 < TomaszD> no, no it's not16:55
tybollt15:54 < TomaszD> it indeed is confusing.16:55
TomaszDwell, someone proved me wrong here16:55
TomaszDso I change my opinion16:56
qgilN900has anybody counted how many end user visible apps are there in extras-devel?16:56
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DocScrutinizerfine, so who's spreading FUD?16:56
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TomaszDthere was no fear, uncertainty or doubt in my statements, no siree16:57
TomaszDit all boils down to the unfortunate "Maemo 6 is an instance of MeeGo" statement16:58
LoCusFdgdfgsdf: nothing at the moment :)16:58
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hrw~curse emmc for being insanelly slow16:59
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, emmc for being insanelly slow !16:59
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TomaszDby the way, I've informed the author of D-THEME SimpleMaemo and SmoothMaemo that he can't use Maemo in the name, his reponse was "so sue me"16:59
TomaszDI'm not sure how to handle that16:59
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dgdfgsdfLoCusF: thanks17:01
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dgdfgsdfLoCusF: is there any specific blockers which are making it harder to make one, or port the previous one for the n900?17:02
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hrwqgilN900: there are 4817 packages in extras-devel17:02
hrwqgilN900: in free part17:03
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qgilN900hrw yes thanks, but I'm talking about apps visible in HAM. I'm counting extras-testing at the moment, if someone wants to count -devel...17:03
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hrwqgilN900: counting now17:04
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hrwqgilN900: 2907 packages in extras-devel has "Section: user/"17:04
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dnearyqgilN900, Generating some metrics for a presentation?17:05
VDVsxTomaszD, I think that is just a recommendation, don't see anything about that in the QA criteria, but remember that discussion17:05
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hrwqgilN900: 254 in extras17:05
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hrwqgilN900: 988 in extras-testing17:06
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qgilN900thanks! that was faster than my stupid manual counting  :)17:06
qgilN900yes, it's for a presentation17:06
hrwqgilN900: Nokia-N900-42-11:/var/lib/apt/lists# grep "^Section: user" repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_fremantle_free_binary-armel_Packages |wc -l17:06
qgilN900I will publish the numbers17:06
VDVsxhrw, 254 in extras that includes libs right ?17:07
hrwVDVsx: any user/ section one17:07
VDVsxhumm, only shows 199 :D17:07
qgilN900ah, i really need "apps", not dependencies17:07
hrwVDVsx: if developer forgot to set sections right then it can be even crap17:07
* DocScrutinizer wonders how HAM would manage ~3k apps in "all"17:08
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nid0199 "apps" in extras then17:08
hrwqgilN900: Section: user/ANYTIHG is what ham shows17:08
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hrwhmm.. osso-wlan in sdk is newer then on device one17:08
* DocScrutinizer ...and how long it takes to scroll down the list :-P17:09
qgilN900but how do I know the mismatch 254/199 in extras is not happening at a bigger scale in testing devel?17:09
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DocScrutinizeron manual counting in HAM, keep in mind installed apps won't show up in the download list17:10
* petur is still wondering what mechanism HAM uses to schedule searching updates and if it can be tweaked17:10
Stskeepsisn't there a update frequency thing in gconf?17:10
dgdfgsdfwhat would be necessary to compile a version of compcache/ramzswap for the n900 kernel?17:11
qgilN900about the 1000 apps in testing, why the amount visible at the qa pages (about 150) is so big? developers not pushing them as candidates for extras?17:11
lardmanqgilN900: certainly that's the case for mbarcode17:12
rmrfchikheh, canola2 is crashed when choosing theme17:12
lardmanthough that's as it's only a test code, the Qt one is the release version, etc.17:12
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hrwqgilN900: devel -> testing promotion is easy from dev point of view.17:13
VDVsxlardman, you can demote your app, if you want17:13
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VDVsxjust vote down17:13
lardmanVDVsx: Qt one isn't released yet17:13
hrwqgilN900: testing -> extras require getting 10 users which will test and vote 'up' for it17:13
lardmanVDVsx: but soon...17:13
VDVsxlardman, I meant the version linger in -testing17:14
qgilN900yeah, but even if you don't have the votes you are visible in the qa queue17:14
lardmanVDVsx: that's the only available version atm17:14
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lardmanand in -testing so people can use it, etc17:14
GAN900TomaszD, Bat'leths at dawn?17:15
VDVsxlardman, well, testing is for apps that are ready to promote to extras, from my POV17:15
hrwso in the end many apps stay in testing forever17:15
lardmanVDVsx: well from my POV it's for stable apps that can be used rather than pointing people at -devel :p17:15
TomaszDGAN900, huh?17:15
lcuk+1 lardman17:15
VDVsxhrw, only if the developer don't want to promote it17:15
lcukits for your basecamps17:16
hrwmy mdbus2 package for example will rather never hit extras.17:16
lcuktho not necessarily user ready17:16
hrwVDVsx: since my last upload rules for cli apps got changed17:16
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hrwVDVsx: and I do not see a need of optification for 25KB binary17:16
qgilN900 is what I mean. no more than 150 of apparent 1000 to be seen here17:16
JaffaStskeeps: ta17:17
hrw~curse omweather17:17
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, omweather !17:17
qgilN900maybe package versions of same package are counted as many?17:17
nid0the rest are apps the developers havent put into the qa queue so will never hit extras until they do17:17
StskeepsJaffa: too important to get lost in the maelstroem17:17
VDVsxlcuk, lardman , well, whats the point of put a app in test if you don't want to promote it, is only to waste testers time :D17:17
lcukVDVsx, sure, you might not think its ready for all end users17:17
VDVsxhrw, requirement is >500kb17:17
lcukbut my nightlies might crash and burn17:18
lardmanVDVsx: well, it's that or point people at -devel and risk them wiping out their devices17:18
lcukwhilst my testing images can remain working17:18
lcukand usable17:18
VDVsxlardman, same warning for testing17:18
lcukslightly different17:18
lardmanVDVsx: with that said, I think I now understand that "Quality apps" actually means "apps that run", so I'll eventually push stuff to extras17:18
qgilN900"** Bugs filed weekly, *** open from a total of *** filed.17:18
lcukspeaking of which17:18
lardmanVDVsx: didn't used to have that warning though17:19
burchrapps are supposed to run? :P17:19
lcukive got a new build of onedotzero and libliqbase to send through17:19
qgilN900I wonder if we can abstract those weekly numbers as an approximation17:19
VDVsxlardman, :D17:19
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lcuki asked for you and this nugget emerged :)17:20
lardmanVDVsx: was the warning always there....?17:20
lcukit might do what you need17:20
andre__qgilN900: what do you need that for? context? :)17:20
lardmanlcuk: thanks, will take a look see17:20
VDVsxlardman, pretty UIs is not a QA rule, so the meaning of quality varies a lot :D17:20
rmrfchikhrw: how to get to desktop from canola without quitting it?17:20
VDVsxlardman, a long ago17:21
hrwrmrfchik: ctrl-backspace17:21
qgilN900"the Maemo community in numbers" in one slide for people without a clue about maemo.org17:21
qgilN900so all bugs count, not only official apps and platform17:21
lardmanVDVsx: anyway, I think the issue is the wording, as I said in my ml post17:21
peturStskeeps: thanks for pointing me in the right direction, found the setting in /var/lib/gconf/apps/hildon/update-notifier/%gconf.xml17:21
lardmanVDVsx: "Quality apps", etc17:21
rmrfchikhrw: is there way not use use keyboard?17:22
Stskeepspetur: please document it somewhere if it's not already17:22
andre__qgilN900: if you need some bugzilla data, feel free to drop me an email17:22
hrwrmrfchik: do not checked17:22
qgilN900andre, I just need numbers in the asteriscs of the sentence above17:22
VDVsxlardman, if extras was only for "quality apps", we'll end up only with a few there :D17:23
andre__qgilN900, I can definitely create an average number for the first, the other two confuse me (e.g. unclear which time period "open" refers to here)17:23
qgilN900currently open17:24
VDVsxI agree with the view that Extras is a place for everybody as long the QA requirements are full fit :)17:24
lardmanlcuk: looks good, please pass on my thanks17:24
andre__qgilN900: then "of *** filed" makes no sense as it increases every week, no average possible :)17:25
lardmanVDVsx: which is great, but the wording should be changed ;)17:25
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qgilN900same with the rest of values in the slide: it's a picture today17:25
andre__hmm, ok17:25
VDVsxlardman, QA ? well QA is also a dubious term, you can define your one criteria even is very weird and call it QA :D17:27
lcukrmrfchik, if the app doesnt have an internal mechanism to go back to dashboard, you are out of luck17:27
qgilN900sorry for massive copypaste:17:27
lcukits entirely possible for the top left corner to not react in fullscreen situations17:27
qgilN900ah, no sorry since xchat is not taking it: good  :)17:27
lardmanVDVsx: QA means quality assurance afaiu17:27
qgilN9001 Community Council of 5 members elected every 6 months by a universe of 3750 contributors with voting rights.17:28
qgilN900400 participants in the Maemo Summit 2009 (double than in 2008)17:28
* dgdfgsdf misses the hardware fullscreen key from n8x0 devices17:28
lardmanVDVsx: while a "quality app" makes me visualise the Rolls Royce of applications17:28
DocScrutinizeryeah, xchat not taking multiline paste is a PITA17:28
qgilN900200 stable Maemo 5 community apps in Extras generating 4 million downloads.17:28
rmrfchiklcuk: seems like canola has no this mechanism17:28
nid0its over 4.5 now :>17:28
qgilN9001000 apps under evaluation in extras-testing, 150 of them candidates for Extras.17:28
lcukrmrfchik, yeah17:28
qgilN9003000 packages apps in extras-devel, from a tota of 4800 packages.17:29
qgilN900 ** Bugs filed weekly, *** open from a total of *** filed.17:29
qgilN9001000 wiki pages, including the official Maemo 5 Developer Guide.17:29
qgilN90011.000 projects hosted in
qgilN900Half million posts in 40.000 forum threads from 30.000 contributors at talk.maemo.org17:30
qgilN900400.000 unique visitors per month and growing.17:30
qgilN900this is it17:30
VDVsxlardman, yes, but your definition of quality can be different from mine, that's my point :)17:31
VDVsxnote that I agree with you17:31
lardmanVDVsx: the wording indicates something in English that I don't think was expected17:31
derfWell, one way to look at that is, of the 400 people at the summit, no more than half have an app in Extras.17:31
lardmanVDVsx: that's my point17:31
DocScrutinizeresp the tmo bits17:31
VDVsxqgilN900, 11.000 projects hosted in ? where did you got that ? I've 1200 in the gsoc proposal17:32
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qgilN900oops, seems one zero slipped and the 1 is a 2 now17:33
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qgilN900i did this yesterday offline while flying to US17:33
qgilN900this is why I'm sharing here now  ;)17:33
DocScrutinizerthat's more sane :-)17:33
lcukqgilN900, is tero driving you nuts with gowala, or are you playing also17:33
qgilN900lcuk yeah I saw that17:34
dgdfgsdfqgilN900: welcome to the US of A, enjoy your visit!17:34
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qgilN900the last i need in my life is one more "social" something17:34
qgilN900and now... time for morning shower17:34
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burchrqgilN900: you shower with your n900?17:35
burchrthat's what I call dedication17:35
dgdfgsdfis there waterproff sleeves for n900?17:35
VDVsxgowala is very good for ->
burchrdgdfgsdf: i'm tempted to make one, now17:36
peturStskeeps: I hope (at the bottom) was a good spot...17:36
DocScrutinizerpetur: sounds perfect17:36
dgdfgsdfpetur: looks good17:38
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peturmeh... Now I discover this page:  grrr...17:39
dgdfgsdfis there a good gconf editor for n900?17:39
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javispedronot yet, there was this gconf-editor port for diablo, but I guess nobody bothered to upload it to fremantle yet17:40
mgedmindgdfgsdf, I was looking for one recently, didn't find it17:40
mgedminended up using gconftool from xterm17:41
mgedmingconftool -R /|less for inspecting/searching17:41
dgdfgsdfI think qole's repo has one17:41
mgedmingconftool -s property -t type value for setting17:41
dgdfgsdfit installs and runs fine, but is not optimized for n90017:41
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dgdfgsdfhere's the link:
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Funnyfaceyou can easilly shover with your phone17:47
Funnyfacejust put it inside a water tight transparent plastic bag17:47
tybolltquestion is... can you SHOWER with it?17:47
Funnyfacetypo :P17:48
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hrwjavispedro: gconf-editor is hard to use under fremantle17:48
hrwUI suxx with hildon theme17:48
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LuciusMareHi, does the photo viewer's "sort by date" function sort by EXIF date or UNIX file dates?17:49
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Gemmazz does my ass look big?17:53
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achipalardman: QA is one of those terms that differ from their 'professional' meaning when used in everyday context17:54
DocScrutinizerLuciusMare: touch foo.jpg ?17:54
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LuciusMareDocScrutinizer: yes17:55
achipalardman: it's like, say, 'theory'17:55
VDVsxlol, that's a good definition :)17:55
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* burchr swears18:00
burchrit is really not my year for hardware18:00
burchrand it's all Stskeeps' fault18:01
burchrlike normal18:01
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lcukhrw, that looks like an A1 top class care package18:01
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Stskeepsburchr: shush, at least getting away from IRCd was the best thing happening to you18:01
lcuklike christmas18:02
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* Andrewfblack wonders where fiferboy has been?18:03
StskeepsAndrewfblack: he lost his job i think18:03
VDVsxjob hunting, perhaps18:03
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lcukAndrewfblack, yeah job problems18:03
burchrStskeeps: true enough.18:03
lcukburchr, ahh i had forgotten about your ircd history :p18:04
qgilN900andre__ do you know when can you send the 3 values from "** Bugs filed weekly, *** open from a total of *** filed." ?18:04
burchrStskeeps: is maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb what I want?18:04
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Stskeepsburchr: yes18:04
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AndrewfblackStskeeps: I knew he has been looking for one guess he is looking hard18:04
andre__qgilN900, later today? how urgent is it? :)18:04
burchrlcuk: I'm trying to forget about it too - doing my best to repress those dark memories :P18:04
infoboti heard flashing is
burchrStskeeps: ta18:05
qgilN900i have a presentation in 7h18:05
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andre__qgilN900, okay. let me do it now18:05
burchrStskeeps: the cloud has a silver lining: I finally get to put the 1.1.1 update on that I never saw :P18:06
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andre__qgilN900, "bugs" also covers enhancement requests here, right?18:06
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qgilN900andre__ yes, everything18:07
lcukdoes the clockspeed on the n900 still do the same drop when dsp is used?18:09
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lcuki notice when music is played i get lower framerates in things18:10
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dgdfgsdfgoogle mobile search results used to have large font size, now it is small18:19
dgdfgsdfwas it a firmware update which caused it, or a change by google in their mobile site?18:19
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andre__qgilN900: 198 Bugs filed weekly (median of last 12 weeks)18:20
andre__qgilN900: 207 Bugs filed weekly (average of last 12 weeks)18:20
andre__qgilN900: Currently 2436 open from a total of 9486 filed.18:20
andre__qgilN900: (Covering everything: Official Maemo packages, Extras, Website, Bugs & Enhancements)18:20
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acidjazzdgdfgsdf: im guessing google18:27
acidjazzdgdfgsdf: and the diff maybe being ur not on their mobile site or on a diff version18:27
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lirHi I need help with N90018:29
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lirI yust got it from servis. Id didn't charge. They remplaced my motherboard. Now the FM transmitter doesn't work.18:30
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MohammadAGlir, is it disabled?18:30
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MohammadAGlir, fmtx-faker18:32
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lirYep it states FM transmitter disabled.18:32
Stskeepslo qole18:32
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MohammadAGlir, download and install fmtx-faker18:33
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qoleGood morning!18:33
lirSorry but I don't follow. I put fmtx-faker in console? What does it do?18:33
MohammadAGlir you download and install fmtx-faker using app manager18:33
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Shapeshifterwell great. modest stopped working again18:34
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Shapeshifterjust doesnt load anything. happened once to me already but I forgot how I fixed it.18:35
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qoleStskeeps, oh that's some great news!18:36
MohammadAGusual extras-devel warning PM'd18:36
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acidjazzSeveral news accounts, including one in the Los Angeles Times, are reporting Wednesday morning that former child star Corey Haim has died at age 38.18:40
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sylarpowahi all18:41
Stskeepsah, another one18:41
acidjazzVDVsx: yea i know who haim is thats why i pasted it18:42
sylarpowaI have searched all over but I cannot find out how to discover neighbour cells, anyone knows how to do it?18:42
VDVsxacidjazz, yeah, but read the article :D18:42
VDVsx"Corey Ian Haim (December 23, 1971 – March 10, 2010)[1][2] was a Canadian actor, k"18:42
acidjazzwiki gets updated asap18:43
acidjazzhe died like 5-6hrs ago18:43
VDVsxseems that they are fast18:43
lcuksylarpowa, ?18:44
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lcukjust look left and right from your current cell18:44
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sylarpowalcuk: I need to know the neigbhour cells.. I want to get an array of them18:45
lcukmake sure the prison guards dont see you tho18:45
lcukwhat happens if you are in solitary?18:45
acidjazzsylarpowa: what language?18:45
karlososhey guys have recieved options in flasher 3.5 i want help with18:45
lcuksylarpowa, in reality, you will of course have to give context18:45
lcuknot just language18:45
lcukbut toolkit and desired thing18:45
lcukmany things have cells18:46
acidjazzlike jails18:46
sylarpowalcuk: I was talking about gsm cells18:46
acidjazzand living organisms18:46
karlososi get flasher-3.5.exe invalid option what does that mean18:46
lcuksylarpowa, well thats not normally the sort of thing we need18:46
lcukhow do you find out what current cell is18:46
acidjazzmeans you need to buy the n900 x86 chip upgrade18:46
nid0karlosos - means you typed the command in wrong18:47
sylarpowalcuk: via a dbus request or AT command18:47
sylarpowabut I cannot find a similar way to know the gsm neighbour cells..18:47
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karlososi followed the steps for vista on maemo talk nid018:48
karlososand its got me further but still stuck18:48
lcuksylarpowa, completely dont know how you owuld go about it, you will have to dig harder and in more places.  and please when you do - dont assume everyone knows what you mean18:48
wizkoderhy everybody18:49
lcuka global wtf to your questions is not the best way to start a conversation18:49
karlososits ok nid0 sorted it full stop on the end was not needed lol18:49
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wizkoderhow do I compile a qt application in scratchbox?18:49
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wizkoderfor armel18:49
lcuksylarpowa, pointing to the same link still doesnt help18:50
FlavioFerreiraBrinto scratchbox18:50
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sylarpowalcuk: if you just try to read it maybe you could understand what I am talking about18:50
FIQmicrob really has problems18:50
FIQwhat's wrong with it?18:51
andre__FIQ: please be even less specific ;-)18:51
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FIQsometimes, it crashes, sometimes the content isn't showing up (just squares), sometimes it stops load any page at all, etc18:51
lcuksylarpowa, if i try to read it my brain melts, the article is from 2007, its had no relationship to anything ive done in life18:51
lcukgsm chipset is not important as long as i have signal18:52
FIQit's the only application with these probs18:52
andre__FIQ: squares for what? chars?18:52
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FlavioFerreiraBrsb-conf se FREMANTLE_ARMEL18:52
FlavioFerreiraBrand compiles18:52
andre__FIQ: if it crashes, please install crash reporter18:52
sylarpowalcuk: so where is the signal to obtain gsm neighbour cells?18:52
lcuki dont know18:52
FIQwith squares i mean gray square-like bg on the whole page18:52
lcukask the gsm spec people18:53
lcukgsm is black box18:53
FIQ(the same one that's appearing temp if you rapidscrolls)18:53
lcuk"ooooh i have 3.5 g here"18:53
lcuk"oooh damn 2g"18:53
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lcukis the extent of my knowledge18:53
sylarpowalcuk: so I have to ask.... who?18:53
lcukstart with the blog author18:53
sylarpowalcuk: I mean for the n900 modem....18:54
lcukor use your work contacts if thats whats needed18:54
FlavioFerreiraBr exist a list of GSOC projects or ideas ?18:54
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VDVsxFlavioFerreiraBr, (under construction)18:55
sylarpowalcuk: thanks, you are replying me in a very useful way18:55
* lcuk feels brain seeping away, sylarpowa; i dont know - i have not seen any open discussion on the inner workings of the gsm modem at all in this chan18:55
sylarpowalcuk: thanks18:55
WindroseHas anyone come across a setting in the Maemo 5 calendar task-list to hide completed items?18:55
lcuki have more knowledge of nose maggots than i go of gsm18:55
sylarpowalcuk: ok np18:55
* lcuk will share the nose maggot extraction video if anyone is interested btw18:56
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VDVsxsylarpowa, I think ophono runs in maemo5 that's open source at least, dunno if will help18:57
* mgedmin makes a note not to click on any of lcuk's links in the next week or so18:57
lcuklol mgedmin18:58
lcukyou are right not to18:58
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lcuki found it by accident18:58
sylarpowaVDVsx: I have tried it but the dbus call I need is still in a draft stage (mentioned on the ML at the end of jan but nothing else later)18:58
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VDVsxsylarpowa, so, if I understood you currently you want information about all the cells in the range, right ?19:00
VDVsxlike cells from other carriers as well19:00
sylarpowaVDVsx: yes, tecnically they are called "neighbour cells" and all of them have its cellid and signal_strength19:01
sylarpowaVDVsx: not from other carriers, from the carrier you are connected to19:01
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VDVsxsylarpowa, yeah, I know, my 3g card sw allows that19:01
sylarpowathe "cell" in which you are in is just one information but the modem knows also the neighbour cells informations19:02
pupnik /j #economics19:02
VDVsxsylarpowa, even if they are out of range ?19:02
VDVsxlike "next" cells available19:02
sylarpowaVDVsx: If you are out of range I think you actually cannot have any cell as neighbour19:03
sylarpowaVDVsx: but I don't know exactly19:03
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sylarpowaVDVsx: I need them on the n900 but I cannot find nor a dbus call nor the relative AT command19:03
SpeedEvilThere is 'recievable but not usable due to not meeting minimum quality requirements'19:04
VDVsxsylarpowa, no, I meant you are connected to cell 11 and cell 12 is the next one near to you, but you can catch 12 signal from where you are19:04
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sylarpowaVDVsx: the signal is catched by the cell from which you received the signal better, so if you receive the 12 cell better than the 11 one you can19:05
VDVsxI'm trying to understand if your cell send info about others or is the modem that catch the low radio signals19:06
frankS2Anyone here from netherlands who have bought the n900? Im wodering about price19:06
VDVsxI'm also a GSM noob :D19:06
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wizkoderI have qtcreator and maemo sdk installed. read about madde? do I need that?19:08
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wizkoderOkay. That makes it easy :-)19:14
wizkoderWhen I do "fakeroot apt-get update" in my scratchbox in armel mode I get: "Failed to fetch  404 Not Found [IP: 80] "19:14
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Stskeepsbinary . -arm?19:15
Stskeepssomething is messed up somewhere19:15
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wizkoderbinary-armel is existing. but I have no clue where that setting is19:17
FlavioFerreiraBranybody here know xoscope ?19:17
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wizkoderIts not in the sources list. Or is it?19:18
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lardman|homeVDVsx: should be the radio I think19:20
VDVsxlardman|home, yes, it seems :)19:21
VDVsxinteresting stuff19:21
Stskeepswizkoder: think your sb target is set up wrong19:22
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wizkoderStskeeps: Compiler:         cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7                               │19:22
wizkoder             │ Architecture:     arm                                                  │19:22
wizkoder             │ Sub-architecture: arm                                                  │19:22
wizkoder             │ C-library:        glibc                                                │19:22
wizkoder             │                                                                        │19:22
wizkoder             │ Devkits:          cputransp doctools perl debian-sarge                 │19:22
wizkoder             │ CPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-0.8.2-sb219:22
wizkoderI use kubuntu 9.1019:23
lardman|homeisn't that the old toolchain?19:23
lardman|homehmm, glibc2.5, perhaps not19:23
Stskeepswizkoder: did you set this up yourself or did a script?19:24
wizkoderI used the sdk install script. But I had to install the cputransp packages by hand19:24
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Stskeepsok, cos something cos messed up somewhere :P19:24
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wizkoderMaybe the cputrans does not fit the rest?19:25
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villagerwell, my scratchbox's armel target does not have cputransp devkit, and it uses debian-etch, not debian-sarge19:27
villagerit has qemu devkit instead of cputransp19:28
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lardman|homevillager: what's your gcc version?19:30
burchranyone here using a contract three sim in the n900 in the UK?19:31
lardman|homesounds like the old rootfs + newish toolchain19:31
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villagerlardman: well, I'm not the guy with the problem, my scratchbox works, was just trying to be helpful in identifying his problem... anyway, my gcc version is 4.2.1, cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm719:32
lardman|homevillager: no, I was just interested as I'm running WinXP atm for work19:32
lardman|homeso his toolchain is the same at least19:32
burchrwell, that's interesting19:33
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lardman|homeburchr: in answer to your question, no I'm not, I'm with Wodafone19:33
lardman|homeor Vodafone, depending on how inversely Germanic you feel19:34
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burchrthree say their newer simcards won't work in non-three handsets19:34
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lardman|homethere was a bug for 3 sim cards that was apparently fixed19:34
burchrI really wish they had told me this somewhere, like on their website, or in their store before I wasted half a day and a £15 contract trying to get it to work19:34
lardman|homenot sure if that's the same issue19:34
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lardman|homeoh right, so they've managed to break things again? Good skills 3 :p19:35
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SpeedEvilburchr: I don't know if this would suit - I'm using a t-mobile PAYG SIM, with a 20 quid 6 month internet booster19:35
SpeedEvilburchr: 1G/mo19:36
FIQhas 3 borked their cards again?19:36
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lardman|homeMonthly contract is a decent deal on O2 iirc19:36
FIQor is it about a new version of their SIM?19:36
FIQBecause here it works just fine, having a three sim card19:36
nid0o2's monthly contracts arent bad imo19:36
lardman|homeAnyone know just what about thier SIMs breaks things?19:36
FIQtry update your fw19:37
FIQif it still doesn't work, three fails19:37
lardman|homeWodafone is reasonably crap, but my familiy are all on Vodafone so we get free calls, etc19:37
DocScrutinizer51VDVsx: afaik it's the modem gathering that info19:38
FIQisn't it same as telenor'19:38
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lardman|homeVodafone may own them?19:38
lardman|homewhere's telnor?19:38
lardman|hometelenor, sorry19:38
wizkodervillager: I just made a new target in my scratchbox. with debian-etch, and without cputrans. not working yet. I feel lost :-(19:38
WindroseNorwegian company.19:38
WindroseExists in various other places as well.19:38
FIQmy dad have it19:39
FIQseems to suck19:39
lardman|homevodafone went on an aquisition spree a few years back iirc19:39
nid0they dont own telenor19:39
* Windrose quite likes Telenor in Sweden, "Better coverage than most".19:39
* FIQ does live in sweden19:39
FIQthree is the best when it comes to data plans, speeds, etc. :P19:40
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wizkoderit now looks like: Compiler:         cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7                   │19:42
wizkoder                   │ Architecture:     arm                                      │19:42
wizkoder                   │ Sub-architecture: arm                                      │19:42
wizkoder                   │ C-library:        glibc                                    │19:42
wizkoder                   │                                                            │19:42
wizkoder                   │ Devkits:          debian-etch qemu svn                     │19:42
wizkoder                   │ CPU-transparency: /scratchbox/devkits/qemu/bin/qemu-arm-sb19:42
lardman|homehmm, echo in here?19:42
wizkoderbut I can't even do a apt-get update19:42
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lardman|homewizkoder: did the rootfs install automatically?19:42
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FIQer, ups19:43
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wizkoderlardman|home: No I need to install a bootstrap in the target?19:43
wizkoderFIQ: Sorry. But only 7 lines19:44
lardman|homewizkoder: you need a fs installed in sb, yes19:44
lardman|homethat should happen as part of the installation process19:44
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lardman|homeor rather fs contents19:45
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lardman|homestupid Windows, detected a media player my arse, it's a bloody usb drive with no music on it19:46
lardman|home~lart Windows19:46
* infobot acting on orders from an unspecified client drags Windows into court suing for $200 million19:46
lardman|homehmm, sounds like the client might be the EU19:46
lcuklol simon19:46
lardman|homehey lcuk19:46
wizkoderlardman|home: I have a armel target installed by the script. but with this I get the apt-get errors. So I tried to configure a new one19:46
lardman|homeoh I see19:47
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lardman|homeare you sure your original errors aren't just temporary things?19:47
lardman|homewas it looking for the armel arch?19:47
lcuksetting up scratchbox cleanly requires a phd19:47
Coketrying to sudo here, but pwd is failing, how do I get root permission?19:47
lardman|hometemporary as in server glitches19:47
lcukCoke, install rootsh package from extras19:48
lardman|homelcuk: hmm, even I didn't do so well, so scratch that one19:48
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infobotlardman|home meant: lcuk: hmm,  I didn't do so well, so scratch that one19:48
lcukdepends on the subject i assume19:48
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lardman|homePhD in scratchboxology19:48
Cokelcuk: how come the root password I entered earlier doesnt apply to sudo -s ?19:49
lcukCoke, i dunno19:49
lardman|homeCoke: "sudo gainroot"19:49
DocScrutinizer51there,s no real sudo. That's messybox19:50
lardman|homeDocScrutinizer51: not messy unless you look at symlinks ;)19:50
Cokedoes the default user have password?19:51
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wizkoderlardman|home: Okay, I reconfigured the original armel target the way villager wrote. Now apt-get seems to work. Thanks so far guys!19:51
lardman|homeget hacking then! :)19:51
* lcuk has nearly cracked green flashing19:52
lardman|homegreen flashing?19:52
lardman|homeyou decorating cakes or something?19:52
lcukloading liq apps has green flashes19:52
lcukor rather, had19:52
lcuki got rid of most of them19:52
lardman|homeah right, those YUV artefacts19:53
lardman|homeI've seen lots of green video while fiddling with the DSP video out19:54
DocScrutinizer51fiddling like in...?19:55
lardman|homegetting video to pass from DSP to ARM-side framebuffer19:55
lardman|homeon post 770 devices19:55
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lardman|homeI can't even remember what I was trying to achieve, something along the lines of compressing the YUV output from e.g. mplayer to the compressed format the N8x0 framebuffer accepted19:56
lcuklardman, yeah19:57
lcuknever really noticed it on 8x019:57
lcukbut on 900 it was on every startup19:57
lcukits not cured in most places19:58
DocScrutinizer51lardman|home: while disabling fbdev?19:58
Cokeis it Ok to muck about with files in ~/MyDocs/.sounds directly ?19:58
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DocScrutinizer51or how did you manage to coexist with whatever is accessing those critters?19:58
lardman|homeDocScrutinizer: no, I left the whole lot alone, but wrote directly to the shared fb from the DSP19:58
lardman|homecreated a black XWindow to occupy the screen19:59
* lcuk is playing with pvr shaders19:59
DocScrutinizer51aah kinda superimpose19:59
lardman|homeDocScrutinizer51: overwrite I suppose19:59
lcuklooking at doing rgb->yuv in them (the job of the iva)19:59
lardman|homelcuk: am waiting for my new PC to turn up so I can CUDAfy20:00
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lcukdoes cuda stuff work on the 81020:00
lardman|homedoubt it20:01
* lcuk has opengles book and has some examples working20:01
lardman|homethough I imagine a compiler could be written to accept the code, etc.20:01
lcuki still dont see how i can make pvr quicker for general ui stuff tho20:01
lcukthan what i have now20:01
DocScrutinizer51there's any decent docs for DSP publically available?20:01
lardman|homeDocScrutinizer51: they are all on the Ti site20:01
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DocScrutinizer51heh :)20:02
lcuklardman, you arent on the map yet are you?
lardman|homealso there's a site specifically for the OMAP3 stuff20:02
lardman|homelcuk: what's that?20:02
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lcukmap of maemo n900 owners/users/developers20:02
pH5hej, what is the state of n810 / powervr mbx?20:03
pH5my n810 does have a display again :)20:03
lardman|homelcuk: not loading, will look later20:03
lcukpH5, the driver is available20:03
lcuktheres been some first light investigation done20:03
lardman|homegot to go, heading out for food, bbl20:03
lcukits on the massive thread20:03
lcukcya later lardman \o20:03
lardman|homepH5: ping Stskeeps/javispedro20:03
lardman|homecu chaps20:04
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StskeepspH5: and the threa20:04
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wizkoderEverything is working now. I even got my arm deb package created flawlessly. I am happy! Love you guys.20:05
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StskeepspH5: it needs some love but i suspect we can use cairo openvg and qt openvg backend to do some nice things..20:05
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lcukStskeeps, whats potential for desktop20:06
lcukie hildon/matchbox/clutter combo20:06
Stskeepsno dice, uses gles2.0 too much i think20:06
lcukno dice, or not tried20:07
lcukthere cant be that much specific20:07
Stskeepstried, crashed :P20:07
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lcukok so it would take someone with knowledge to dig and see20:07
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lcukdo you have a build around with them in, so someone could followup20:07
pH5Stskeeps: so the big issue is still the failing buffer allocation?20:08
StskeepspH5: biggest issue is that it doesn't act well with the framebuffer20:08
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Stskeepsbuffer allocation is a matter of doing it at the right time20:08
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Stskeepsthings 'work' but for varying definitions of working :)20:09
lcuki suppose first step is clutter on 81020:09
lcukonce clutter works, the desktop ontop should too?20:09
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pH5lcuk: first step is getting the driver to behave :)20:09
DocScrutinizer51Stskeeps: does BME by any means use the bat monitor chip?20:10
Stskeepsthe what now?20:10
lcuki thought it worked as long as you downloaded everything20:10
StskeepspH5: , track back from there20:10
Stskeepslcuk: it doesn't render nicely to a framebuffer atm20:10
Stskeepsit 'works' but not for usable things20:10
Stskeepsas in, the processes work, but render to framebuffer is not going well :P20:10
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DocScrutinizer51Stskeeps: there's a chip similar to gta02bat BQ27000 to monitor the bat status20:11
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DocScrutinizer51interface via I2C20:11
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer51: well, without knowing specifics, it would be weird for a chip to be there without purpose20:12
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: is that actually present?20:13
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I don't recall anything about that on reading the BME kernelside code - just stuff to read GAIA ADCs20:14
StskeepsX-Fade: holy fuck @ lipo fire20:14
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lcukStskeeps, powervr,iva both existed without purpose on the 8x0 :p20:14
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* pH5 hates imagination technologies' coding style with a passion20:16
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer51: just remember, if you're going to be playing with this kind of stuff, search for 'lipo fire' on youtube20:17
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: I killed a few Li cells20:18
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DocScrutinizerknow those critters20:18
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: that's my point20:18
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Stskeepsalso, why are most of these people on those videos speaking finnish20:19
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: N1130 battery fuel gauge20:19
sylarpowahi, I want to propose myself as a student for the gsoc (yes, I have an idea). What I have to do? Just add my project's details here (
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: Stskeeps: looks like that's an unused chip actually20:21
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DocScrutinizerif it's even existing on MP N90020:21
VDVsxsylarpowa, the application period for students didn't started yet20:22
VDVsxif you had you own idea there, other students can also propose it ;)20:22
sylarpowaVDVsx: yes, I know, but I have seen that there are a lot of projects yet on the wiki page20:22
sylarpowaVDVsx: so... better to wait? XD20:22
VDVsxsylarpowa, just possible ideas to pick20:23
sylarpowaah ok VDVsx20:23
sylarpowathanks ;)20:23
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VDVsxsylarpowa, is the same for us, you can choose to add it or not :)20:23
sylarpowaDocScrutinizer: lol, now you work for Nokia? :D20:23
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DocScrutinizernot *yet* :-/20:24
sylarpowaVDVsx: are you going to propose a project?20:24
* konttori is finally getting relaxed. tomorrow might be the release candidate day.... I wish. 20:24
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sylarpowaDocScrutinizer: what about openmoko?20:24
VDVsxsylarpowa, no I'm mentor/org admin20:24
DocScrutinizererrr, OM? lemme think...20:24
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VDVsxkonttori, so, no beta testing this time ? :D20:24
sylarpowaDocScrutinizer: lol20:25
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sylarpowaVDVsx: ah! :P20:25
konttoriVDVsx: beta testing is planned, but we can only give the certified version to beta.20:25
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pH5ok, so power_test and services_test work20:25
konttoriso, once we have the candidate, we can start the certifications.20:25
DocScrutinizerahh that Inc that did those lovely phones, before they changed to produce wikireader - nope, no more employment there20:25
konttoriif nothing goes wrong, beta will begin once certifications are complet and full release about weekish later.20:25
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VDVsxah, I always forget about certificates, useless think :P20:26
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pH5and glinfo makes mbxdaemon cause a page allocation failure20:26
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Stskeepsyeah :P i think we simply need to prealloc memory in kernel20:26
Stskeepswhen module is loaded20:26
konttoriyeah, well, corporate world is a bit strict about those sorts of things. But we have basically ran all tests ourselves before we call it a candidate, so it's a formality after that only20:27
* burchr drools20:27
Stskeepsbutchr, what'd you find now?20:27
VDVsxStskeeps, he's about to blame you, I guess20:28
burchrI saw the phrase 'release candidate'20:28
burchrthat and I found myself a three engineer indirectly20:28
burchrso I have someone to pester about my problems20:28
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GAN900konttori, really uselessly short beta period20:29
konttoriGAN900: well, it's mostly about letting devs have their hands on it a bit sooner than the typical end users.20:29
DocScrutinizerone week? nah20:29
GAN900konttori, oh, silly me, then. . . .20:30
konttorifor example all themes need to be adjusted for pr1.220:30
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konttoriit's nice to allow devs to do that before end users start complaining about the themes.20:30
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, got a part number for the battery monitor chip?20:30
KlownerI see in the wiki there's an example of how to make control panel applets, but does anyone have any suggestions how I could pair a control panel applet with a daemon that runs in the background, doing periodic things? Would they need to be separate?20:30
GAN900Considering the BUGmaster was the one picking the group last time around. . . .20:30
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: alas NOOOT20:31
Stskeepskonttori: pushing out updates to variant-template before this happens?20:31
Stskeepswell, as in, pr1.220:31
DocScrutinizer~lart nokia for making such useless schematics20:31
* infobot whips out his power stapler and staples nokia's foot to the floor for making such useless schematics20:31
konttorihumm.... aren't they pushed already?20:31
konttorianyway, I have updated theme maker template already20:31
VDVsxI guess ~95% of the theme markers aren't devs20:32
konttoriit's just few small things, but e.g. virtual keyboard buttons were completely redesigned to a new layout20:32
Stskeepskonttori: yes, it's updated - thanks20:32
konttoriVDVsx: sure, but that was just an example20:32
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VDVsxburchr, ah, you're undercover :D20:32
konttoriqt apps can now be compiled to /usr/lib based qt.20:32
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: I'm tempted to disassemble the phone to get it20:33
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konttoriand can be tested on the device with the final version of qt (well, final until next update)20:33
VDVsxDocScrutinizer, do you have the nokia care docs that someone sent to -users ?20:33
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N900evila process of elimkination20:33
GAN900VDVsx, also: most of 'em weren't in the beta period last time.20:33
VDVsxGAN900, that's my point :)20:34
N900evillook at all i2c drivers/busids20:34
petteriany big changes coming to the user interface?20:34
GAN900So it seems like my and konttori's definitions of "beta" may differ20:34
DocScrutinizerN900evil: goo man, gooooo20:34
konttoriwell, I never said that was beta.20:34
konttoriit's more like early developer release20:34
ShadowJKI was going to say it looks like it's on the same i2c bus as gaia20:34
konttori(and not so early, but anyway)20:34
GAN900konttori, I can only begin to imagine what new horrors have been inflicted on virtual input.20:35
konttoriGAN900: oh? well, it's really quite nice.20:35
GAN900konttori, so, what you're saying, is that there will be no private beta period like for PR1.1?20:35
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: mompl20:36
kuriirihaa.. pptp-vpn works on n900! :)20:36
GAN900konttori, my experience with Nokia and virtual input is that usability peaked at Chinook and has gone steadily downhill ever since.20:36
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konttoriGAN900: it's probably true to a degree. But the new one is definitely very nice.20:37
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: nah, I2C_2 vs I2C_SR20:37
GAN900I still can't believe they got rid of gestures.20:37
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konttorialthough, the most attention has been in making the russian vkb layouts and behavior just perfect, as they have been internally most vocal at making sure things are just right this time20:37
sylarpowaDocScrutinizer: do you know if is there any way to know the gsm neighbour cells?20:37
GAN900The fact that virtual input basically never worked in MicroB in Diablo was incredible.20:37
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: MOMent PLease20:38
konttori(they prefer the vkb to the hw kb for native input)20:38
ShadowJKwhat is sr...20:38
GAN900konttori, I did too . . . in Chinook.20:38
DocScrutinizersylarpowa: I followed the discussion. Sorry no idea. Ask konttori about service mode20:38
ShadowJKGAN900, oh I notice that now and then on n800 :)20:38
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sylarpowakonttori: any idea? :)20:39
konttorisylarpowa: you should be able to get signal strengts of all neigbour cells.20:39
sylarpowaDocScrutinizer: thanks20:39
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: no ides (sr)20:39
sylarpowakonttori: mmm how?20:39
konttoriI would need to ask the cellmo developers for the details.20:40
hrw~curse n900 for lack of 'Chr' key20:40
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, n900 for lack of 'Chr' key !20:40
ShadowJKI remember someone saying there's an AT command to get neighbours, but the at emulation daemon thingy såat out ERROR20:40
konttoriIt's not necessarily exposed to the main CPU side at all.20:40
hrwkonttori: so pr1.2 in 1-1.5 months from now?20:40
sylarpowaI tried a lot of at commands unsuccessfully .. but they aren't standard so..20:40
konttorihrw: can't comment, but let's say I hope less.20:40
sylarpowakonttori: could you ask please? I really need it (the signal strenght and the cellid of neighbour cells)20:41
konttorisylarpowa: can't ask anymore today. WIll have to be tomorrow20:41
DocScrutinizerkonttori: fair enough :-))20:42
sylarpowakonttori: np but please let me know the answer asap ;)20:42
hrwkonttori: btw - can you drop 'Polish' hw keymap? it is same as English... just different scv ;(20:42
hrwdiablo sucks when it comes to hw keymaps, fremantle is even worse20:43
ShadowJKsylarpowa, what do you plan to do with it?20:43
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trip0anyone used the usb-host on the n900?20:43
hrwanyway time for me20:43
trip0or does the n900 even have usb-host capabilities?20:44
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I only vaguely remember glancing through those schematics, but was there a current sense resistor connected to the modem chip?20:44
sylarpowaShadowJK: just some tests, need to archive gps + gsm infos togheter20:44
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: none spotted20:44
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: tbh I think it's prohibited to have such shunt in Modem VDD20:45
ShadowJKI guess liblocation would use neighbour infos20:45
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yep20:45
konttorihrw|gone: I agree, the only sane HW layout is the english one.20:46
konttoriIf it were me, I would not have shipped any other layouts at all, and had vkb cater the rest.20:46
* DocScrutinizer sobs bevause got no sane hw kbd layout20:46
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DocScrutinizerfriggin qwertzu - without up/down keys20:47
ShadowJKkonttori, .fi blogosphere was furious for n97 not having äö on dedicated keys ;p20:47
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sylarpowaShadowJK: it doesn't :(20:47
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: waaaaaah20:47
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sylarpowaShadowJK: " I guess liblocation would use neighbour infos" <-- it doesn't20:48
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konttorisylarpowa: so, are you already using Net.get_available_network from to get the current cell data?20:48
pupnikone layout20:48
pupnikfour rows20:48
sylarpowakonttori: yes I haven't problems in getting informations about the current cell, only cannot find a way to find neighbour ones20:48
konttoriShadowJK: blah. I never use those. they are all wrong! (as said: if it were me.. ;) I can understand that people have differing opinions)20:49
ShadowJKsylarpowa, I'm 9km from 3g mast but it seems to know more than just putting me somewhere in a 10km wedge from tower20:49
pupnikcan we see  distance to mast?20:50
ShadowJKkonttori, I dont think ive used them either.. except when misspelling stuff20:50
konttoriI fear that the neighboring cells info is not available on the omap side, but ... I'll check if it is, or if we could somehow expose it if it isn't20:50
DocScrutinizerWTF?! echo "Registration Status = `PhoneGet? net net Net.get_regist......[++15lines]20:50
Stskeepswell, did anyone look at the isi headers? :P20:50
ShadowJKpupnik: gsm has timing advance, dunno about 3g20:50
sylarpowaneighbour cells are aviable on android and also on old symbian phones so... it's really strange not to have such a feature on a great smartphone such as the n900 XD20:51
sylarpowaStskeeps: isi headers?20:51
DocScrutinizerpupnik: yes, via Time Advance20:51
konttorisylarpowa: lol! I'll see what can be done!20:51
trip0usb host + n900? anyone?20:51
Stskeepssylarpowa: there's structs and stuff for communicating with the celluar modem, in nokia-binaries..20:52
Stskeepshow to use it is a different thing..20:52
konttorinow: mass effect time (just finished 1 for the second time, about to start 2 for the second time)20:52
sylarpowaStskeeps: mmm I have looked around a lot but cannot find anything usefull (maybe it's just an AT command but I wasn't able to find it)20:52
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ShadowJKsylarpowa, symbian also has Nokia Energy Profiler :D20:53
DocScrutinizertrip0: still under investigation20:53
Stskeepssylarpowa: this is a binary protocol, AT is just an abstraction of top20:53
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sylarpowaStskeeps: where can I find the files u are talking about?20:54
Stskeepscellmo headers something, play around with apt-cache search20:55
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DocScrutinizerseems you'd need the full dev env to grep the sources, no?20:56
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sylarpowaStskeeps: I have searched for it some hours ago but I get error 404..20:57
pH5#rmmod mbxaccess20:57
pH5rmmod: mbxaccess: Resource temporarily unavailable20:57
pH5[783930.375000] DeinitMain refcount is:429496729520:57
DocScrutinizerrefcount is WHAT?20:57
pH5smells like unbalanced refcounting20:58
DocScrutinizersmells like underrun20:58
inzVery much like20:58
ShadowJKI should go buy a flintstones dvd..20:59
StskeepspH5: kill mbxdaemon20:59
pH5Stskeeps: done that, seems it stomped the refcount through the floor20:59
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, waaah?21:00
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ShadowJKfor a moment i thought you were quoting a chip name but that was wahoo, right21:01
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: fi blogosphere was furious for n9721:01
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pupnikwish we had animated gif viewing21:04
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ShadowJKwe dont?21:05
DocScrutinizer:-)  :-D  X-D  X-P21:06
ShadowJKthe browser in diablo did it!21:06
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pupnikbrowser does21:07
pupniknot convenient  though21:07
pupnikcat attacks breakdancer is funny21:08
DocScrutinizerpupnik: (timing advance)
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sylarpowaDocScrutinizer: openmoko ml, :OOOO, XD21:09
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DocScrutinizersylarpowa: you don't expect me to copy it elsewhere, do you?21:09
sylarpowaI don't XD21:10
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DocScrutinizerthough this post definitley belongs to me, not to my OM alter ego21:10
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DocScrutinizerkonttori: (neighbour cells)  Thanks to Nokia ;-)   ""> All the tests were done with an old Nokia 6210.""  ->
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* DocScrutinizer hugs his 6210 :-)21:15
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DocScrutinizerkonttori: if 6210 was able to do that (plus a whole lot more of really usefull things, in monitor mode), then N900 might be allowed to do the same, no?21:17
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brady47Just testing pymucl on n900.21:23
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Shapeshifterguys, in that app I wrote someone is complaining that the first letter is always uppercase, while pressing shift it will be lower case. Isn't this standard beahviour in maemo? ^^21:26
Shapeshifterthere's even an option for this somewhere in the settings21:26
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KlownerShapeshifter: every text input is like that21:28
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Arif_Shapeshifter, tell him to turn auto capitalization off :P21:29
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Shapeshifteryeah that's what I was guessing ;)21:29
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: though I seem to remember there's additional properties for a text input you can set to disable auto cap, or use numeric input, or even password mode21:30
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: no doubt21:31
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: so if your app is depending on a lower case first letter, you'd be able to config text input accordingly21:31
DocScrutinizeralas even Nokia doesn't do this for passwords by default iirc21:32
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Shapeshifterdoes someone know how to pass arguments to libalarm exec_command options? It seems like it's not happy (throwing InvalidEventException) when giving it a string that contains spaces.21:32
DocScrutinizerwhich can become a major PITA when you entered your password capitalized without noticing21:33
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: sure. well afaik that's pretty much a standard feature of any sane toolkit, speaking of Qt, or even insane ones, like gtk ;)21:33
Arif_passwords are lowercase by default...21:33
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: yep. many people forget it. I've seen some where lower case was set though.21:33
Arif_at least on the virtual kb21:33
DocScrutinizermabe I'm wrong - maybe it changed with pr1-0-121:34
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Shapeshifteror actually, it doesn't throw that exception.21:36
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Shapeshifternevermind it actually works somehow I think... ._.21:37
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: what you're at?21:38
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: a frontend to alarmd21:40
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: ^21:40
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Shapeshifterworks pretty well from my limited testing21:41
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* noobmonk3y waves21:42
Shapeshifterbut _some_ strings for exec_command don't work, while others work. for example, I was able to do something like '/home/user/scripts/test -foo' but if I try '/bin/echo "something" >> /tmp/testfile' it doesn't work. probably it doesn't like special characters or something...21:42
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ali1234how do you run exec_command?21:43
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: libboost? waaah!!21:44
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: that's because it's pyside21:44
ShapeshifterI'm waiting for shiboken as well21:44
* lcuk throws random stuff @ noobmonk3y 21:44
Shapeshifterit will be awesome21:44
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Shapeshifterthe boost implementation is incredibly slow and has many bugs. bugs they won't even bother to fix anymore because shiboken is probably out within a couple of weeks21:45
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* noobmonk3y blinks21:45
Shapeshifter("months" to be safe) ;)21:45
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: (>> doesn't work) it's no shell21:45
DocScrutinizerit's probably an execve or system() call21:45
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: mhhh, right.21:45
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: execve doesn't take strings, and system() calls the shell...21:46
Shapeshifterprobably ash -c 'bla >> foo' will work.21:46
* Arif_ strangles noobmonk3y with a wlan cable21:46
* Shapeshifter tries21:46
luke-jrShapeshifter: I wouldn't bet on it21:46
noobmonk3ythankg god for wireless ;)21:46
lcukArif_, that doesnt work, noobmonk3y has gills21:46
DocScrutinizershould work21:46
noobmonk3yd oi?21:46
noobmonk3ysh*t never noticed21:46
luke-jrsounds like it's doing a simple split on space, then to execve :/21:46
noobmonk3yno wonder i like swimming :)21:46
luke-jrin which case it will ignore quotation21:46
luke-jrquotes are as much a shell thing as >>21:47
noobmonk3yooo brb21:47
Shapeshifterluke-jr: it doesn't split space. simpler arguments work21:48
luke-jrShapeshifter: hmm??21:48
Shapeshifter/bin/ash -c '/bin/echo something >> /tmp/testfile' worked21:48
luke-jrlucky you21:48
DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: I tried to post exactly same :-P Alas: [2010-03-10 20:46:33] [Fehler] bin/sh: Unbekannter Befehl.21:49
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: huh? why is that21:50
Shapeshifterwell. missing leading "/" or what21:50
DocScrutinizerline beginning with slash21:50
DocScrutinizer/bin/sh -c '/home/user/scripts/test -foo' but if I try '/bin/echo "something" >> /tmp/testfile'21:50
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DocScrutinizerooh even the C6P failed (nah I failed on C&P)21:51
ShapeshifterI'm confused now21:51
DocScrutinizerI c&p your >>>'/home/user/scripts/test -foo' but if I try '/bin/echo "something" >> /tmp/testfile'<<< to above command in my post21:52
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DocScrutinizerwhen I meant '/bin/echo "something" >> /tmp/testfile'21:53
Shapeshifterah so you copied what I said. instead of commands.21:53
Shapeshifterah yes ;) okay got it ^^21:53
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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: cmdline interface as well on alarmed?21:54
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: to set events? no. do you think anyone would be using it?21:55
DocScrutinizerme would21:55
* RST38h is sure a lot of people here will enjoy this one ;)21:55
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: well I can make one. Not very much work. I'll look into it...21:57
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Shapeshifterright now I'm wondering how to put the command entered by the user into /bin/ash -c '<here>'. the user shouldn't have to enter the ash bit. I mean, what I should have to perform on the string before passing it to alarmd. /bin/ash -c '/home/user/scripts/test \'blah\' ' doesn't work.21:59
ShapeshifterI mean, the only problem occurs if the user enters single quotes. that's the issue21:59
barfoos_hi. i just wanted to change my sshd's port, but apparently /etc/ssh/sshd_config is not read. after "invoke-rc.d ssh restart" it's still listening on port 22.22:00
Shapeshifter/bin/ash -c '(/home/user/scripts/test 'blah')'22:00
Shapeshifterseems to work. not sure if this is right. seems very weird22:00
luke-jrShapeshifter: '\''22:00
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barfoos_is this supposed to be like that?22:00
RST38h" that time, keeping the chip low cost meant ensuring it would go in low-cost packaging, which meant plastic. In order to use plastic packaging, we had to keep the power dissipation below a wattthat was a hard limit. Anything above a watt would make the plastic packaging unsuitable, and the package would cost more than the chip itself."22:00
luke-jrbarfoos_: install openssh-server?22:00
barfoos_luke-jr: sure. that's why i have /etc/ssh/sshd_config22:01
Shapeshifterluke-jr: mhh, okay. thanks22:01
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RST38h"...We applied Victorian engineering margins, and in designing to ensure it came out under a watt, we missed, and it came out under a tenth of a wattreally low power."22:01
barfoos_luke-jr: i can login to port 22. the problem is sshd doesn't read the port directive in the config.22:02
barfoos_or the whole config22:02
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luke-jrRST38h: so now that they have funds, that's why it sucks far more power now? :P22:05
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SpeedEvilluke-jr: the current ones go rather faster.22:06
SpeedEvilluke-jr: Plus - around a watt for the CPU flat-out at 600MHz is about right for the current one22:07
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barfoos_mh. the reason why sshd didn't read the config was that it didn't restart at all trough my "invoke-rc.d ssh restart". a reboot did the job.22:12
barfoos_seems strange though22:12
barfoos_i did it as root22:12
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barfoos_can you stop sshd with the invoke script?22:14
Shapeshifterthe image view thing is closed source as well, right?22:15
lupine_85argh. is broken for anyone else?22:16
Shapeshifterbtw today I fooled myself: I was looking at some pictures and for some reason while being absent minded I went back through the pictures and there were a couple of screenshots of my desktop. I looked back at the device and wanted to change one desktop to the left and there was the same thing again. >.> and to the left of that was the task manager. I really was stumped22:17
Shapeshifteruntil I found out I still was in the image viewer ._.22:17
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barfoos_lupine_85: nope. it's up and running22:18
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lupine_85for some reason, my scratchbox is hanging at '0% [Connecting to]'22:19
lupine_85I think it's an sb problem, rather than a networking one :/22:19
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ds3from looking at all the posts, it appears that when the USB port is configured for modem mode, you do not loose connectivity on the N900 itself, is that right?22:20
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lupine_85ahh, dns resolution issue22:26
Shapeshifteralso, what's up with the ash shell prompt. after 'cd /opt/' it says: Nokia-N900-02-8:/home/opt#22:28
Shapeshifter/home/opt ??22:29
HydroxideShapeshifter: /opt is a symlink to /home/opt due to the partitioning layout22:29
lupine_85that's better22:29
ShapeshifterHydroxide: humm. that's not visible from df -h or fstab22:30
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Shapeshifternot from mount either. I don't even get how opt is mounted where22:30
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cehtehlupine_85: about the hang: you have to setup /etc/resolv.conf in sb22:46
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lupine_85yeah, I got it now22:47
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lovelyboyhi, everyone, how to disable pyhon support on the device?22:49
lovelyboyit's python22:49
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Hydroxidelovelyboy: I don't think you can without breaking stuff22:49
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ShadowJKHydroxide, well it's not installed by default22:50
lovelyboythat means i dont need to disable it since am using a new phone, there isnt such thing yet?22:51
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lovelyboyand i succeed to install opencv package on the device, but the x-term shows "error while loading shared libraries: open shared object file: no such file or directory"22:54
lovelyboywhat's the problem then?22:54
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ShadowJKHow did you install it?22:54
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lovelyboyShadowJK:you mean opencv?22:54
lovelyboythe opencv is available in extras-devel now22:55
ShadowJKWell there's a warning about -devel for a reason :)22:55
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lovelyboyso, how to deal with my problem then?22:56
Arif_how did you put dots in there?22:57
Shapeshifterthe tweakr author (siovene) ain't around here, is he?22:58
lovelyboyArif_:sorry, what do u mean by dots? i dont understand22:58
Arif_the link =}22:58
lovelyboyoh, sorry22:58
Arif_it just suprised me how you managed that...:(22:59
alteregoIf a company wants to write a proprietary app for the N900 (with Qt) do they have to pay Nokia for the Qt license?23:00
javispedroQt is LGPL 2.123:01
javispedro(and licensed also under a miriad of other licenses)23:01
javispedroso, if you dynamically link against it (aka you're not doing a derived work) it's OK.23:01
alteregoAh, I was wondering if it was something like that, what about distribution?23:01
alteregoSay I write an app to work on a desktop too?23:02
javispedrowell you'd have to distribute the Qt source code. not a big deal.23:02
javispedro(the Qt library itself source code, not your app's)23:02
alteregoPresumably I could just point to the Qt site if I use an official build?23:02
javispedrono, you can't23:03
javispedrothis was discussed recently...23:03
javispedrobut I don't remember where :)23:03
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alteregoI could possibly say: Just download Qt from here? :)23:03
alteregoSo I don't even distribute the binaries?23:03
lcukthe principle problem is distributing the binary on windows cd etc23:04
lcukits a bit easier in linux with the repo mechanism23:04
alteregoOkay, just thought I'd find out before I pimped my proposals at work :)23:05
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luke-jralterego: if you don't distribute Qt, you don't need to include the code23:06
luke-jralterego: but you really should always include code no matter what, even for your main product ;)23:06
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alteregoluke-jr: I agree completely, unfortunately my company doesn't ;)23:07
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javispedroah sorry, I was thinking you were planning to distribute the Qt library.23:07
ds3assuming it is indeed true that modem mode doesn't cut off the N900's access to the net; is it possible to use modem mode to connect to the MMS APN and remain connected to the normal APN for N900's own internet access?23:07
* RST38h moos evilly at javispedro and lcuk23:07
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javispedrohey RST23:07
luke-jralterego: just tell them it's standard practice, but you can restrict the copyright even so?23:08
lcukds3, i think that was discussed a little at the start of the mms stuff23:08
lcukit may be technically feasible23:08
lcukbut practically it might be more difficult to get in place23:08
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ds3lcuk: it was?  I thought I found all the old threads23:08
lcukhiya RST38h23:08
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ds3would you happen to have the thread URL?23:08
lcukds3, im sure it was one of the first things that started to be discussed23:08
lcukno, it just doesnt sound like an entirely new proposition23:09
javispedroso the Palm Pre Game SDK is mostly SDL 1.2 plus a few GLES and UI sutff patches23:09
lcukjavispedro, i saw the post23:09
javispedroMaybe I should port those to the Maemo SDL 1.2 and try to get that in PR 1.3 :)23:09
RST38hjavispedro: is it legal though? Given sdl licensing?23:09
ds3if it wasn't for TMO's auto promotion of SMS's to MMS's... :(23:09
javispedroRST38h: they actually ship the source23:09
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RST38hah ok23:09
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RST38hjavispedro: port it and upload to extras, by all means ;)23:09
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lcukds3, i may very likely have been thinking about it based on the original discussion  having 2 ASNs23:12
lcukjavispedro, strong native well supported gaming apis are a big thumbsup from me23:13
RST38hlcuk: Well Palm stuff is not necessarily "strong", but having it around is good, for compatibility23:13
javispedroAs I was talking in my post even actual binary compatibility might be possible23:14
javispedropalm recommends against hardcoding the window size.23:14
RST38hjavispedro: So should Maemo23:14
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RST38hIt is always a good practice23:14
javispedroRST38h: ironically, Maemo hasn't =)23:14
RST38hjavispedro: Well nothing prohibits you from adding this suggestion to the list23:15
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RST38hjavispedro: And sending the pink diarrhea ray in the general direction of Nokia UX people23:15
javispedroI guess with Qt and all the cross-platformness they'll start suggesting that now.23:15
javispedro(hopefully :))23:15
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javispedrothis reminds me. I need to file a bug; the Maemo SDL doesn't support switching orientation (it will refuse to create 480x800 surfaces if it was started with 800x480 and viceversa)23:16
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ds3lcuk: ah... I did not see this. I was looking on talk instead. thanks.23:16
RST38hjavispedro: I kinda suspect that an explosive diarrhea killing off all the UX people will greatly help to improve Maemo UI coding practices...23:16
lcukds3, :) was first proposed there23:16
lcukfrals has come a long way since!23:16
* frals reads up23:17
lcukspeak of the devil!23:17
ds3lcuk: lots of stuff to sort through to find it in the logs23:17
lupine_85how does the underlying stuff deal with orientation switches, anyway?23:17
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lupine_85I'd expect it just to use xrandr's rotating power23:17
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javispedro*lcuk summons lvl. 99 frals*23:17
* RST38h browses menus for his spell of genocyde23:17
guysoft22hi all, would pygl work on the Nokia N810?23:18
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ds3I'd think a simple cron job that grabs all pending MMS's daily should be fine but...23:18
guysoft22is there any compilation of it anywhere?23:18
fralsds3: are you wondering if you can have two apn connections active at once?23:18
* lupine_85 was planning on putting together a tower defence-style app for maemo. plus, you know, linux in general23:18
javispedroguysoft22: no, you'd need a opengl es python binding23:19
lupine_85probably sdl23:19
fralsds3: in that case, depending on your operator, yes23:19
javispedroguysoft22: there's a 1.1 roaming around, dunno about 2.023:19
RST38h"Subjects ... perceive their surroundings in a completely accurate manner, except the position of the eyes of all beings or things are shifted to give the illusion of eye contact."23:19
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guysoft22javispedro, there are youtube videos of that, but no code i see23:19
javispedroguysoft22: seen ?23:20
SpeedEvillupine_85: eals with rotation poorly.23:21
ds3frals: yes23:21
SpeedEvillupine_85: many apps are unusable.23:21
javispedroah, sorry, didn't read lupine_85's question.23:22
ds3frals: my operator, TMO, automatically upgrades SMS's to MMS's if certain conditions are met23:22
lupine_85mm, about the only thing that does anything with it is the dialer23:22
javispedroyes, they use xrandr, but do not use xrandr rotation stuff23:22
javispedrothey just "switch" resolution23:22
lupine_85and that's really annoying, to be frank23:22
corecodehow do you initiate a video call on jabber?23:22
corecodeit only seems to work when somebody calls me23:22
corecodenot when i try23:22
* lcuk kicks his wifi23:22
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lupine_85corecode: it's just an option in the dialer for me23:22
ds3frals: if it is possible, then the only remaining issue is ip addr space collisions and a brute force answer there could be a VM23:22
andrei1089hi, is there any way to play a sound using gstreamer while media player is running ?23:22
lupine_85I think23:22
RST38hGAN: Around?23:22
corecodelupine_85: where?23:22
fralsds3: yes, subnet collisions are a pita23:23
andrei1089now i'm using playbin2 sink but no sound is played23:23
corecodelupine_85: i have "jabber call", but nothing for video23:23
fralsupgrading kernel is a solution as well afaik23:23
lupine_85wait, that's jabber call, yeah23:23
fralsi got a ugly hack in place in fMMS that should make it work whenever the active connection and the mms apn is on the "same" subnet23:23
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ds3upgrading the kernel still means you have to sort through policy routing issues23:23
ds3frals: are you using the ioctl to bind a socket to an interface?23:24
fralsjust custom routes23:24
fralsreally ugly as said, but it seems to work :p23:24
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ds3if that works, go for it :D23:25
pupniknice to see cpasjuste has a n900  mupen64plus23:25
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ds3I just think all of this is easier then talking to my carrier about reprovisioning my account as a dumb phone to trigger their legacy support23:25
fralsds3: yeah, WORKSFORME at least... ;D23:25
prontowait did i read that right, they got mupen64 on n900?!?!23:25
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javispedroah, he's port is already a bit faster than mines23:26
ds3frals: I'll do some testing for you when my device arrives23:26
fralscool, lemme know how it goes23:26
prontoi recently got a ps3 controller to use with my n900, was playing snes, but i really want n64 games x.x23:26
lupine_85pronto: how do you connect the ps3 controller to the n900?23:27
prontoworks great23:27
lupine_85I guess it would, at that23:27
prontoand with the n900's video out you got yourself fun times!23:27
* lupine_85 has an old PS2<->USB adaptor23:27
lupine_85I was trying to envision how that'd work... :D23:28
prontohaha, i wouldnt trust the usb port for that :s23:28
ShapeshifterI kinda doubt it will ever run smoothly23:28
* lupine_85 is planning on doing an entire presentation from his N900 on Monday23:28
prontoi've already had one mircousb port fall out -.-23:28
lupine_85well, they're gadget-side anyway23:28
* lupine_85 tries to convince make menuconfig to work23:29
lupine_85every single time...23:29
prontois that like the catorzie thing?23:29
ds3lupine_85: with TV out to the projector?23:29
prontoto put the menu into catrogies23:29
lupine_85that's the idea23:29
lupine_85(to both, as it turns out)23:29
ds3what are you using to show slides?23:30
prontoyou got a video splitter i hope?23:30
lupine_85yeah, I've got the cable23:30
lupine_85haven't looked into slide display yet23:30
lupine_85n900 comes with 'docs to go' whatever that is23:30
lupine_85hopefully OOo-compatibler23:30
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ds3I see23:30
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prontoheh, hrm i should test out the presnetation mode on google docs23:31
prontoi knwo google docs itself works on the n90023:31
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* lupine_85 hissses at google-*23:31
ds3I did presentations from a Beagle Board before via the DVI output... problem is the folks at places don't often have the right cables23:31
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* lcuk does presentations fro mthe n90023:31
lupine_85looks like docs-to-go is word-compatible :/23:32
lupine_85lcuk: .odp slides?23:32
lcukno, stuff based on liq*23:32
lupine_85fair enough23:32
lupine_85I give presentations once every 3 years or so23:33
prontohaha epic, the presnetation mode on google docs works witth n90023:33
* lcuk doesnt like normal presentations23:33
prontowin \o/23:33
lcukthey arent interactive enough23:33
lupine_85I mostly use them as somewhere to point at :)23:33
lupine_85if the audience is paying attention to the slides instead of me, I'm generally doing it wrong, I think23:33
lcuki like live things, so if i talk about adding something23:33
lcuki dont just have a slide, it just gets added23:33
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pH5Stskeeps, javispedro: is anybody working on integrating the omaplcd / mbxaccess modules into the diablo kernel tree?23:37
frals~curse Java23:37
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Java !23:37
cpasjuste<fnode'pupnik> nice to see cpasjuste has a n900  mupen64plus  > thanks :)23:37
javispedropH5: at least I'm not :23:37
pH5I've set up a diablo sb target now, and after much banging my head against invisible walls managed to build the modules.23:39
pH5I wonder where to go from there. Try to make omaplcd alloc the dma memory on module load?23:40
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pupnikthank you cpasjuste!  fun to see23:40
javispedropH5: that should be doable at least :) more challenging would be try to guess what causes the pauses and wheter they're related to the leak.23:41
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_strcpysomebody please urge developers to fix the broken python-scapy package ...23:42
* lupine_85 wonders if there's any way to get a selectable kernel list from whatever bootloader the n900 uses23:42
javispedrothere's no way currently, but does kexec work?23:42
lupine_85I doubt it's got support compiled in23:43
lupine_85wait, it does23:43
javispedroit was requested for diablo..23:43
javispedroand even previous versions.23:43
pupnikiirc no javispedro23:44
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lupine_85'though there's no userland tool installed by default23:44
GAN900RST38h, hmm? fwiw I don't highlight on GAN usually.23:45
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RST38hGAN: Sorry. Wanted to asked about MacOSX problem with WiFI APs23:48
RST38hGAN: Is it always so unstable?23:49
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ponyofdeathhi, anyone here using t-mobile in the usa and having problems with sending emails to I cant seem to get nagios to send alerts or they are intermittent.23:51
Hydroxideponyofdeath: t-mo usa uses mms instead of sms when the message exceed 160 chars. you need to use one of the unofficial mms support implementations for the n90023:52
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ShadowJK; any now facts or rumours about that bat gauge chip?23:52
Hydroxideponyofdeath: I use fmms to handle that, and I think one other one exists23:52
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizernot been looking at it.23:53
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, i'm clueless23:54
DocScrutinizer51checking I2C used chip addresses might help23:55
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DocScrutinizer51alas I have no clue what's been the tool to do that23:55
ponyofdeathHydroxide: i see so follow the fmms guide online?23:55
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ShadowJKi'm under the impression that it's generally not possible to detect things on i2c reliably23:56
DocScrutinizer51sometimes it's not23:56
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DocScrutinizer51this one here should give a identifiable reply though23:57
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DocScrutinizer51I mean it,s a monitoring chip designed to yield values to be read23:58
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lupine_85ShadowJK: My phone-3 used an i2c keyboard, I believe23:58
lupine_85perfectly reliable23:59
DocScrutinizer51and it's on same I2C bus as the charger mgmnt chip23:59

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