IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-03-09

PrebenR	Hi. I'm trying to get the hardware keyboard to work with Norwegian (it is a nordic phone) and Greek. (The virtual does). I tried modifying the ukeyboard file for the greek hardware keyboard layout to be greek and nordic (not US), but it didn't work. So any hints on which files I need to edit to get sth like this to work would be much appreciated	00:00
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PrebenR	for a N900 mobil	00:00
lardman	haltdef: dev of the backend pipeline (i.e. gst) goes on upstream	00:01
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haltdef	you've lost me now :P	00:01
* RST38h moos at lardman, pupnik, VDVsx		00:01
* Arif_ throws buggy media players with hardware acceleration at RST38h		00:02
lardman	haltdef: the decoding bit is separate from the presentation bit	00:02
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* VDVsx moos back at RST38h :)		00:02
SpeedEvil	Wild_Doogy: several in that there are GPUs in the 'graphics processing' sense - that do special stuff. Forex there is one that does camera processing	00:02
lardman	the decoding bit is called GStreamer, and is developed upstream, i.e. by the original authors, not Nokia	00:02
haltdef	ah yes I get that	00:03
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mece	oh man, the bugzilla email thread... makes me lose hope in humanity...	00:06
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Arif_	why :	00:06
Arif_	(	00:06
mece	well.. just the pampering people are taking for granted these days...	00:07
haltdef	Arif_, have you been playing with utilities for converting >480p videos for the n900 media player?	00:07
Arif_	nope	00:07
haltdef	I could do it with avisynth, megui etc but so much effort :P	00:07
lardman	moo RST38h	00:07
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Arif_	I only use megui to convert my own recorded stuff	00:08
Arif_	:p	00:08
haltdef	mm	00:08
mece	I'm so tired of the "This didn't work as I assumed, although it never said anywhere that it would! That means this sucks and must be killed with fire!" attitude.	00:08
* Noobmonk3y moooooooo's		00:08
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mece	but on a happier note, I've solved(ish) the disappearing widget problem I've been having with comic-widget.	00:09
Arif_	you stopped using it?	00:10
Arkenoi	Is joikuspot commercial version really reliable?	00:10
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Arkenoi	I think 15 euros is way too much, i expected it to be less than 10 _$_	00:10
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mece	Arif_, well I guess I meant everyone was having that problem...	00:12
LuserN800	well.. I fail to mount my samba share... can't find mount.cifs..	00:12
Arif_	I have the opposite	00:12
mece	Arif_, and hopefully they wont have it with the latest version.	00:12
Arif_	my shortcuts disappear for no reason	00:12
Arif_	and reappear sometime	00:12
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mece	Arif_, well this was specific to the comic-widget. Actually it just became invisible.	00:13
mece	Arif_, I don't have that problem.	00:13
SpeedEvil	It clearly has superpowers!	00:14
Arif_	heh	00:14
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* Arif_ doesn't read comics		00:14
Arif_	buut anyway	00:14
* Arif_ goes to sleep		00:14
Arif_	getting up early is evil :(	00:14
mece	quite.	00:14
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haltdef	nn	00:15
SpeedEvil	Arif_: you get up at around 6AM in some timezone everyday.	00:15
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Arif_	sometimes yes	00:16
Arif_	:p	00:16
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Arif_	it's even worse if you get up early occasionally	00:16
Arif_	makes it harder :(	00:16
iPeter-	Cant find any place where to change alarms volume on N900, maemo 5. Could someone help me?	00:16
SpeedEvil	Arif_: every day.	00:17
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pupnik	iPeter-: looks to me like the volume should be added as a feature to the alarm	00:19
pupnik	right below "enable"	00:19
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iPeter-	pupnik: Could you tell that on some other way? :D	00:20
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iPeter-	pupnik: couldnt understand	00:22
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pupnik	i suggest you check bugs.maemo.org for a feature request	00:22
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pupnik	alarms should be configurable from alarm menu	00:23
lcuk	iPeter-, which way do you want it changing	00:23
iPeter-	pupnik: So you are telling me there aint any possibility to change volume of alarm?	00:23
lcuk	iPeter-, volume up or down	00:24
iPeter-	lcuk: It is too low volume. I got same alarm and ringtone sound. I hear ringtone very well, but i cant wake for that alarm.	00:24
pupnik	,what if i listen to quiet music to fall asleep, but need a loud wake up, lcuk ?	00:24
lcuk	iPeter-, the alarm comes on as an increasing volume, with vibe too - try finding a foghorn sample	00:25
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pupnik	ah good answer	00:25
lcuk	i find setting my alarm to my phone ringer has more wakeup potential	00:25
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haltdef	oh that reminds me of a question I wanted to ask, can the alarm be set to pick a random mp3 from a list of a few?	00:26
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iPeter-	lcuk: Yeah, it is increasing but not enough. I just cant wake up with that tone level	00:26
iPeter-	but if someone calls to me, i wake up.	00:26
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lcuk	iPeter-, then set it to your phone ringer	00:26
ptl	another N900 clone video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEvkI7sp1cM - this one has the keys right! And the layout is copied EXACTLY. That's impressive, really impressive.	00:27
lcuk	theres a connection in your head between "shit someones calling me"	00:27
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ptl	these chinese people are too bold	00:27
lardman	hi lcuk	00:27
iPeter-	lcuk: ? I said i have same tone on my alarm and calling tone	00:27
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ptl	and landscape/portrait switch seems to work better on this piece of crap than the real N900, lol	00:28
lcuk	sorry peter i just woke up myself after missing someone calling me lol	00:28
lcuk	hiya lardman	00:28
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iPeter-	Hmm	00:32
ptl	why 51?	00:32
iPeter-	So there aint any solution to increase volume of alarm	00:32
iPeter-	?	00:32
lcuk	iPeter-, not if the ringing and vibing doesnt work, follow pupniks advice and see if theres a brainstorm/bug/enhancement request	00:33
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iPeter-	lcuk: It rings and vibes.	00:34
lcuk	just not enough for you	00:34
mece	iPeter, you could make a really loud sound file and use that	00:34
corecode	today my n900 was very slow when i switched it on	00:34
* noobmonk3y blinks		00:34
corecode	sluggish	00:34
corecode	reboot helped	00:34
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corecode	anybody know the reasons for that?	00:35
corecode	i booted it while on power	00:35
mece	today my N900 was awesome. 'nuff said.	00:35
iPeter-	hmm, maybe ill let my mom wake me up then, ugh -.-	00:35
lcuk	iPeter-, http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=64476	00:35
corecode	could that be (an obscure) reason?	00:35
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lardman	choose a shrill alarm note	00:36
mece	lcuk, looks loud...	00:36
lardman	it's pretty loud, do you sleep with it in another room and with earplugs?	00:36
pupnik	SIX PERCENT CPU mp3 playback! 12 percent total system load at 250mhz! :D :D :D	00:36
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lardman	pupnik: not using pulse I guess?	00:37
mece	pupnik???!? what? how? WANT!	00:37
haltdef	:o	00:37
lcuk	http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=9429	00:37
mece	naah. I should record my youngest daughter when she's angry.	00:38
mece	Ears ringing everytime.	00:38
pupnik	lardman: yeah just bypassed. but finally i got volume loud	00:38
pupnik	stock mplayer mece	00:38
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iPeter-	lcuk: Thanks, but i have to go sleep. Ill keep tracking for info how to increase it or disable that "sofly increase volume" thing.	00:38
lardman	pupnik: counting down till your speakers go ping? ;)	00:38
lcuk	alarmclock http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=78562	00:39
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: were ou asking about temperature sensors yesterday? There is a 7 bit ADC inside the SoC, hooked to one. there may also be a thermometer of some sort on the SDRAM on chip.	00:39
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lcuk	mece, that would work	00:39
pupnik	keeping volume at 80 pct lardman	00:39
lardman	cool	00:40
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pupnik	a micro player will go in theapplet menu i think. but how to get stable playback is not so easy	00:41
lcuk	haha http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=52906	00:42
lcuk	i think having random one from a set would be uber cool	00:42
lcuk	set multiple alarms and have police and explosions and babies crying just to wake you up	00:42
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SpeedEvil	http://www.airhorns.co.uk/product.asp?lot=21&pnid=396&deptid=284	00:42
SpeedEvil	has lots of samples	00:42
lcuk	lol	00:42
SpeedEvil	Also - USB version needed.	00:43
SpeedEvil	http://www.airhorns.co.uk/product.asp?lot=21&pnid=197&deptid=287	00:43
* lardman does more googling for a bt compass		00:43
lcuk	lardman, i thought i2c was the bus you were aiming for	00:43
lcuk	and theres the honeywell model for that isnt there?	00:44
mece	pupnik, so are you using.. something, directly and leaving out the middleman (middleman being pulse)	00:44
lcuk	coupled with the spacer unit wont that fit inside	00:44
lardman	lcuk: dunno, I'd prefer to not take the device apart	00:44
corecode	is anybody maintaining a "todo for maemo"?	00:44
lcuk	indeed lardman	00:45
SpeedEvil	hmm.	00:45
lcuk	but id rather not have an outrigged addon	00:45
corecode	which cointains points like "don't alert for new mails during night"	00:45
lcuk	especially if theres space	00:45
* SpeedEvil wonders on a compass as a SD card.		00:45
corecode	or "save mails to imap"	00:45
pupnik	yeah mece, it is so nice to be in irssi, listen to my lectures, and see cpumem applet at BELOW one bar!	00:45
lardman	also needs to be a 3 axis compass really	00:45
SpeedEvil	Problem is that huge steel cover	00:45
lcuk	lardman, is the honeywell one not?	00:46
lardman	that tube app demo was very cool	00:46
lcuk	lardman, which	00:46
corecode	SpeedEvil: use gryo sensors for earth rotation?	00:46
lardman	lcuk: not sure, I was looking for a unit that was more constructed, i.e. plug it into a board sort of thing	00:46
* corecode ducks		00:46
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pupnik	still getting crasors	00:46
SpeedEvil	corecode: very unactive	00:47
lcuk	lardman, yeah - it would be good to make use of the spacer area as well as pluggable without much	00:47
pupnik	maybe we could build a keyboard that absorbs electricity from thumbpresses lardman	00:47
lcuk	so it just sat in spacer area and had contact with the pads	00:47
pupnik	patent!	00:47
lcuk	under the battery	00:47
lardman	lol	00:47
noobmonk3y	ooo who mentioned honeywell :)	00:47
corecode	microusb cables for $1.90	00:47
corecode	original nokia, they say	00:48
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* noobmonk3y used to work for honeywell :D		00:48
lardman	yay, compasses all round, thanks noobmonk3y ;)	00:48
noobmonk3y	lol :)	00:48
lcuk	lardman, you could buy one of those android things and get it to push compass bearing to you	00:49
* noobmonk3y 's dad still works there, good company to work for too :)		00:49
lardman	lcuk: yeah, slight overkill though ;)	00:49
lcuk	just a tad	00:49
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lardman	might try that with my wife's phone though	00:50
lardman	she was moaning about it, so perhaps if I can get her something else it could be a goer...	00:50
SpeedEvil	honeywell makes some _insane_ stuff.	00:50
SpeedEvil	There are processors that work at 250C	00:50
SpeedEvil	8 bit - sure. But still.	00:50
SpeedEvil	$400 IIRC	00:50
lardman	not sure my fingers will work at that temp!	00:50
SpeedEvil	http://www.honeywell.com/sites/portal?smap=aerospace&page=High-Temp-Electonics3&theme=T5&catID=C8CB0A123-D15A-925D-8BF2-3FBCC5E54BB7&id=H0F4347A8-B418-9BBF-51D2-4FE2F72E6EC1&sel=3	00:51
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noobmonk3y	honeywell makes nealy verything, scary how big they are ;)	00:52
noobmonk3y	nearly everything*	00:52
* noobmonk3y can't type		00:52
lcuk	jees working in such extreme conditions means you would need some pretty extreme tape to mesh it together	00:52
lcuk	http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Health/Safety/Products/Related/?PC_7_RJH9U52300A9E023IJD0GR3O74_nid=XZ7F9199G9beHDSVSV648Cgl	00:52
noobmonk3y	ooo yayness healthcheck is 8/10 thumbs up's w000p only 9 days to go now!	00:52
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* noobmonk3y feels the excitement in the room.... :D		00:54
lcuk	lol noob	00:54
noobmonk3y	;)	00:54
* noobmonk3y gets a little over excited at times ;)		00:54
lcuk	so you need 2 thumbs?	00:54
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noobmonk3y	think i'd look a bit weird with 2 more thumbs, but healthcheck could do with it :) - hoping people are testing it properyl though :P	00:55
noobmonk3y	properly*	00:55
noobmonk3y	if my coding is as good as my typing i'm buggered	00:55
lcuk	:D	00:55
pupnik	confuzed	00:55
lcuk	dont you have other issues tho	00:55
lcuk	like it being qt	00:55
noobmonk3y	lol with the gtk?	00:56
lcuk	no	00:56
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noobmonk3y	or just the fact it is qt?	00:56
lcuk	i mean with qt in extras	00:56
lcuk	wasnt there some sort of niggle	00:56
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noobmonk3y	the old qt isnt tho is it?	00:56
noobmonk3y	i think thats just the new one :D	00:56
noobmonk3y	or newer one	00:56
pupnik	i say we make meego based on VB6.0	00:56
noobmonk3y	hell yeah pupnik	00:57
noobmonk3y	just basic will do ;)	00:57
noobmonk3y	miss the old gorilla game	00:57
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lcuk	+1 pupnik	00:58
lcuk	i did some vb last night	00:58
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microlith	lol, qbasic	00:59
lardman	wow those honeywell modules are expensive (for the hobbyist)	00:59
SpeedEvil	lardman: yes - but if you need electronics in a 250c environment - the alternatives are worse.	01:00
lardman	3 axis, rs-232 output, ~$750	01:00
SpeedEvil	lardman: oh - not those.	01:00
lardman	no, talking about the compass modules they make	01:00
lcuk	what is QTscript	01:00
lcuk	or qscript etc	01:00
SpeedEvil	lardman: yeah - the integrated modules are stupid.	01:00
lardman	like Javascript iirc	01:00
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lardman	lcuk: or perhaps it's not, hmm	01:01
* lcuk wants arexx ports back		01:01
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: wasn't me asking	01:01
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: k	01:02
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: I just spotted the temp sysfs nodes	01:02
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: any idea where to that tempsensor is mapped?	01:03
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RST38h	lcuk: This way, you will start asking for multiple-resolution simultaneous displays in no time	01:04
lcuk	RST38h, of course!	01:04
lcuk	slide them in	01:04
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* lcuk used to love the headaches from using interlaced mode on old crt tv		01:04
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lardman	hmm, how do I go back a single revision in svn?	01:05
lardman	revert I guess?	01:05
ali1234	i don't suppose anybody actually managed to get the N900 TV out to run interlaced yet...	01:06
* RST38h had a deinterlacer		01:06
RST38h	A3000 was nice, yes	01:06
lcuk	the modulator on the a500 was evil	01:07
lcuk	it was 10x longer than it shouldv been	01:07
lcuk	was more like a gunclip	01:07
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lardman	hmm, any help with removing a change in svn?	01:14
lardman	reverse merging I see, but it's not a happy chappie	01:14
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ali1234	SVN doesn't like to change history	01:15
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lardman	ah well, I think I've worked out what I've done	01:25
lardman	I'll change it by hand, thanks tho	01:25
lardman	that's probably a sign that I should go to bed because I'm tired	01:26
trem	nite all, sweet dreams	01:27
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noobmonk3y	mehhhh	01:34
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N900evil	RST38h, I suppose you've thought of top and bottom half of text window doing pgup/down and found it was nontrivial?	01:37
N900evil	xchat	01:37
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RST38h	N900: eh?	01:44
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RST38h	What pgup/down?	01:44
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UndrWater	what's the latest on USB host? works as host? requires powered hub? non-existent?	01:45
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noobmonk3y	tight... sleeeeep time! Nights alls :D	01:47
noobmonk3y	right*	01:47
noobmonk3y	omg wtf is up with my typing!	01:47
noobmonk3y	i need new fingers.......	01:47
noobmonk3y	and a new brain whilst at it	01:47
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ptl	UndrWater: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2010-March/015794.html	02:00
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mtd	anybody used golang from extras? I can't get it to link a .5 file.	02:02
mtd	..if it worksforyou I'd love to know.	02:03
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blizzow	Is anyone here having trouble sending an email to their number@tmomail.net and having it arrive as an sms?	02:36
* crashanddie is a pirate		02:36
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crashanddie	I has an eyepatch	02:36
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GAN900	Cool	02:39
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GAN900	Why?	02:39
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crashanddie	GAN900: was attacked by some youth yesterday evening	02:39
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crashanddie	for taking pictures	02:39
GAN900	Haha, that's . . . interesting	02:40
GAN900	Did they get you in the eye?	02:40
crashanddie	got punched a few times in the face, I have corneal abrasion on my right eye	02:40
corecode	ptl: how is that related?	02:40
GAN900	Damn	02:40
GAN900	Pics? :P	02:40
crashanddie	hurts like a motherfucker	02:40
crashanddie	nha, first run was OK, second time (when I had the encounter) I didn't get anything worthwhile	02:40
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GAN900	Why the hell did they take offence to pictures?	02:40
crashanddie	actually, didn't check the pictures yet, but doubt their'll be anything interesting	02:41
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crashanddie	s/their/there/	02:41
infobot	crashanddie meant: actually, didn't check the pictures yet, but doubt there'll be anything interesting	02:41
GAN900	and, seriously, what the fuck kind of insane kids do you have down there?	02:41
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crashanddie	fucking maori gipsies	02:41
GAN900	What about a self portrait? :P	02:41
crashanddie	took one, can't find the usb cable and can't be bothered to search	02:41
crashanddie	waiting for the meds to kick in	02:41
crashanddie	actually, I'm just going to sleep	02:42
crashanddie	talk later	02:42
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b0unc3	hello	02:43
haltdef	hi	02:43
b0unc3	someone know how to make dbus call my own script on a event ?	02:44
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corecode	that works?	02:45
corecode	don't you need to listen to events and then react?	02:45
RST38h	crashanddie: careful, they are cannibals	02:45
corecode	cannibis?	02:45
b0unc3	corecode, so I must create a daemon for this ?	02:45
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corecode	b0unc3: not sure, but that's what i've seen	02:47
corecode	would be nice if you wouldn't have to	02:47
corecode	or if there was a meta-daemon that calls scrips for you	02:48
b0unc3	yes, I hope there is a better way than a daemon to do that	02:48
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ptl	corecode: below that initial message, you had lots of discussion about the usb host mode	03:00
corecode	ptl: "[maemo-users] latest OS2008 and alarm"?	03:01
corecode	ah i see	03:02
corecode	somebody hijacked the thread	03:02
SpeedEvil	AFAIK - nobodies come up with definitive answers for the n900	03:02
corecode	All	03:03
corecode	new cellular phones in the EU must have a micro USB port as a connector	03:03
corecode	for an ac adapter (in the future)	03:03
corecode	what?	03:03
corecode	haha	03:03
corecode	who comes up with these regulations?	03:03
haltdef	standardisation ftw	03:04
marmoute	+1	03:04
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ptl	how can I get vmstat for the N900? If I try to install it from the repositories it conflicts with the OS itself	03:12
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ptl	fine, I will compile by myself! :(	03:19
microlith	wow, one of our W510s just self destructed	03:19
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ptl	what's a W510?	03:20
microlith	oh, Lenovo Thinkpad	03:20
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shinkamui	need some advise	03:29
shinkamui	Im adding 2tb to my NAS	03:29
shinkamui	in a 2tb usb2 external drive	03:30
shinkamui	im breaking it up into 3 partitions, 2 500s and 1tb	03:30
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shinkamui	should I make the 2 500s xfs and the 1tb reiser, or should I just make all 3 xfs	03:30
shinkamui	the 1tb will be mostly for storage, but the 2 500s will be working drives	03:31
kynky	make all ext3 :)	03:31
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shinkamui	ext3? I thought xfs had superior speed for smaller files, and reiser did a better job with large files	03:31
kynky	xfs is best for large files, reiser3.6 is best for lots of small files, ext3 is the all rounder	03:31
shinkamui	lol	03:31
shinkamui	I was backwards	03:31
shinkamui	perhaps I need to do more research	03:33
shinkamui	I appreciate your response though, Ill definately go with ext3 for the two smaller drives then	03:33
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kynky	ext3 is also most mature, and relibility more important than speed, when fs speeds kinda negligable compared to diff spindle speeds diffences etc (afaik)	03:33
kynky	its best to have ups for xfs in case of crash, but most ppl dont do that i bet	03:34
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kynky	if you want speed , go for raid1/raid10 instead of fs choice	03:35
kynky	raid 0 etc	03:36
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shinkamui	xfs doesn't recover well from crashes during write?	03:45
shinkamui	thats a big time deal breaker	03:45
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SplasPood	evening all.. Its marginally off topic (maybe) but I was wondering if anyone here had travled with the N900, specifically wondering if it's possible to disable data svcs while still allowing voice since t-mobile is going to charge me a freakin fortune for data svcs in costa rica	04:18
SpeedEvil	You can set data to 'always ask'	04:21
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SpeedEvil	this means if you startup anything that wants a data connection, it will ask you if you want to continue.	04:21
SpeedEvil	However - once the connection is up - there isn't an easy way of saying 'I only want to look at one small web page' - without any other app that wants to use it also using it.	04:22
blizzow	Anyone here have issues sending email to their number@tmomail.net from certain providers? I can get email to sms from yahoo, but not gmail or some of my own email servers.	04:23
SpeedEvil	blizzow: usa?	04:24
blizzow	SpeedEvil: yes.	04:24
SpeedEvil	don't think uk tmo does that	04:24
SpeedEvil	so can't help.	04:24
SplasPood	SpeedEvil: hrm.. And that'll take care of background apt-get update and stuff?	04:25
blizzow	I've looked at my t-mobile filters, there are none enabled. I can send email from my desktop to my phone via email, other servers though, t-mobile doesn't like apparently.	04:25
blizzow	grrr.	04:25
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SpeedEvil	SplasPood: it does nothing in the background if you have it off.	04:28
SpeedEvil	SplasPood: that is if you've set it to always ask	04:28
SplasPood	SpeedEvil: hrm, I think I can relax then, thank you	04:28
SpeedEvil	also install gprs-data-counter	04:28
SpeedEvil	or whatever it's calleed	04:28
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newbie005	hi, how can I tether my laptop using my n900's T-mobile account? I've installed the Bluethooth DUN program and paired the device. Now what?	04:30
blizzow	newbie005: what Os?	04:30
blizzow	OS?	04:30
newbie005	Vista unfortunatly	04:30
blizzow	I think you'll have to create a new network connection in Vista.	04:31
blizzow	I don't have a vista box in front of me, but google will probably help with that.	04:31
newbie005	I've found some message "..devices shown support Personal Area Network (PAN) services"	04:31
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newbie005	ok, but your telling me the issue is most likely my OS. so thank you	04:32
blizzow	newbie005, it sounds like you're pretty close to completing the task. I don't think you'll have to much trouble from where you're at.	04:33
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pupnik	<mp3 alsa test - 4hr> continuous mp3 playback through speakers at 80% volume, offline mode -- 95% battery	06:01
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disco_stu	whats up?	06:30
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ptl	pupnik: I've seen you talking on the picodrive/dgen thread, doesn't sdlmame emulates sega genesis?	06:35
pupnik	never heard of that	06:39
pupnik	emulating sega genesis	06:39
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ptl	ok	06:45
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DocScrutinizer	pupnik: I humbly doubt your bat reading is correct	07:29
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DocScrutinizer	that'd mean you can get 80h of mp3 playback, via speakers at high volume. Impossible	07:34
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crashanddie	batteries aren't linear	07:55
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Bactius	Wouldn't kit be cool to have fasttracker on N900 :)	08:01
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yigal	the genius that made pianobar I want to wish my thanks upon you	08:03
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: not SO much nonlinear	08:04
yigal	how many hours does one get on an n900 with a full charge?	08:05
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: c'mon - 4h mp3 playback, via speakers	08:05
bleeter	hot damn did the n900 release in Australia today when I was asleep?! nokia.com.au's graphic has changed from 'upcoming' to 'available' lol	08:05
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: sure, if you consider 40 to 0 in 2 hours linear compared to 100 to 40 in two days	08:05
crashanddie	bleeter: hang on, I thought it was available?	08:05
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Bactius	I'll check out pianobar	08:05
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crashanddie	bleeter: I saw a couple guys with one the other day	08:06
DocScrutinizer	duh, never encountered such nasty. Sure the bat readings are jumpy	08:06
bleeter	crashanddie: people have been importing	08:06
bleeter	there's some debate as to whether the aussie version will be quad-band	08:06
crashanddie	oh right	08:06
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: and good luck with healing your injury	08:06
crashanddie	ta	08:06
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: those fsckng bastards	08:06
crashanddie	I have corneal abrasion	08:07
yigal	wow u poor aussies don't have n900 yet	08:07
crashanddie	yigal: had one since october ;)	08:07
yigal	almost as sad as you eating vegemite	08:08
yigal	jk	08:08
crashanddie	that however is painfully true, vegemite is seriously disgusting	08:08
yigal	crashanddie: ah, I'm amrcn and don't have one	08:08
yigal	lol	08:08
crashanddie	yigal: that lazy you can't even spell american?	08:09
yigal	na n amrca it's how eva u wanna spll	08:09
crashanddie	not in here it isn't ;)	08:09
yigal	ah :(	08:10
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yigal	good to hear	08:10
DocScrutinizer	yigal: I guess those *caine pharmaceuticals really help for pain killers, had a severe UV-burn in both eyes (shorted a 10mm^2 400V) when I learnt that	08:11
yigal	DocScrutinizer: sorry to hear, what was the wattage?	08:11
yigal	anyways I can't bring myself to purchase the n900 does openoffice work?	08:12
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DocScrutinizer	no idea. Those main fuses should be able to give surges of several 1000A	08:12
DocScrutinizer	lemme put it this way: the bang was like a .45	08:13
yigal	oh chess game sorry blitz	08:13
DocScrutinizer	btw how come I posted to you? sorry! was addressed to crashanddie	08:15
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: I guess those *caine pharmaceuticals really help for pain killers, had a severe UV-burn in both eyes (shorted a 10mm^2 400V) when I learnt that	08:16
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: basically, this morning I woke up and I was blind	08:16
crashanddie	seriously scary	08:16
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crashanddie	I couldn't open my eyes, everytime I tried I was in agonising pain.	08:17
yigal	DocScrutinizer: sorry to hear again, I won by the way :D	08:17
crashanddie	I called my project manager, he came and picked me up at the hotel, brought me to see a doc, she put 2 drops in my eye, and 5 seconds later I could open my eyes	08:18
crashanddie	photophobia was gone, didn't hurt anymore, I could see fine	08:18
crashanddie	I said: "that's good stuff", she replied "opiates have always been"	08:19
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DocScrutinizer	yget those drops, they will last only 2h or somesuch	08:19
yigal	photophobia is that pain with high intensity light?	08:19
yigal	the drops last 6 hours for me, sucks	08:19
crashanddie	yigal: any light	08:19
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: 15 minutes	08:19
yigal	I had 1/2 a dose a week ago and it lasted more than double a normal person	08:20
yigal	at my eye exam	08:20
yigal	I have terrible myopia	08:20
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yigal	-8 diopter	08:20
crashanddie	she then put some die in my eye, in order to try and find the hole, it's about 1mm from my iris, and I have pretty blury vision from that eye (understandably)	08:21
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yigal	true that, I don't know from my bicycling next to large trucks, smoking cigs, and dope I don't know why I still have healthy eyes but I do	08:21
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yigal	crashanddie: sorry to hear this	08:22
yigal	the eye is supposedly the fastest healing organism	08:22
yigal	so hopefully you'lle get past what ever problems are occuring	08:22
crashanddie	the cornea heals very quickly most of the time (part of the body that has the quickest turnaround in terms of cell-life), so by tomorrow I should see a definite improvement	08:23
crashanddie	If not, I might have to go see a propper ophtalmologist and get a healer-lens	08:23
yigal	crashanddie: you're right wow I learned something the tongue is actually the fastest healing organism	08:23
yigal	the cornea is the fastest healing tissue	08:24
crashanddie	well, maybe not the fastest, but up there with the very fast ones	08:24
yigal	learn a little each day, good for me	08:24
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yigal	crashanddie: ya, all the silly wiki this or that are claiming that the cornea is the fastest but you are right one should be conservative	08:25
* DocScrutinizer throws coin whether to get first coffe or another short nap		08:25
crashanddie	coffee first	08:25
crashanddie	it will kick in after 20 minutes, making perfect for a wakeup time	08:25
DocScrutinizer	heh, sounds like a plan	08:26
yigal	mmh refreshed after a nap	08:26
yigal	awesome	08:26
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yigal	pianobar is just a great piece of software	08:27
yigal	I'm using it on my netbook running ubuntu	08:27
yigal	cli just the best	08:27
yigal	and it runs on ye old n800	08:28
yigal	pandora > last.fm, but I love cli programs, mutt, mpc bash scripting, so this little program just made my day	08:29
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yigal	hmm, I killed the convo? :(	08:33
yigal	anyone else RJD2	08:34
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yigal	what evers	08:36
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DocScrutinizer	no idea bout pianobar	08:38
lcuk	crashanddie, what happened to the thugs who beat you?	08:38
crashanddie	two of 'em got arrested	08:39
crashanddie	1 got away	08:39
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crashanddie	thugs is a big word though, I'm not sure they're entitled to it yet	08:40
crashanddie	anyone, of any age, shape or form can beat up someone when you're surrounded by 8, and 3 start hitting simultanuously without a warning	08:40
lcuk	i hope this mornings trip to doctors is noted and you updated the police with your actions	08:41
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crashanddie	Well, I paid $65 for the doctors this morning, which is covered by my company's inssurance	08:41
lcuk	or did you just want to see a nurse first thing i nthe day to be able to go "hello nurse!"	08:41
crashanddie	I won't have any permanent damange, and if I leave it at that, that's pretty much it.	08:42
lcuk	were the photos worth it in the end	08:42
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crashanddie	If however I press charges, I have to go to court, I have to be a witness, my name goes on public record... See, i don't want to start my new life here in oz with a court case	08:42
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crashanddie	and yes, that's also a way of saying I'm scared of retaliation, who wouldn't be?	08:43
crashanddie	If I don't press charges, they get a fine, if I press charges, they get 2 weeks in jail...	08:43
lcuk	its not your choice to press charges though, they have cctv	08:43
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crashanddie	well, if say I report that my camera is broken (need a new lens?) or something like that	08:44
crashanddie	then it's not just "The people vs whatever the cunt's name", but "The people led by Sebastian lauwers"	08:45
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GAN900	crashanddie, that really sucks. :(	08:46
GAN900	crashanddie, feel better. :)	08:46
* GAN900 sleeps.		08:46
DocScrutinizer	isn't law strictly distinct domains for crime and for inter-personal (sorry not the right term) over there?	08:47
crashanddie	dunno, not really aware of the laws over here	08:47
crashanddie	but can't be all that different from the UK	08:47
DocScrutinizer	here you'd first wait for the crime trial to give them a sentence, then you got after them with a civil lawsuit	08:48
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DocScrutinizer	usually it's pretty clear the agressor has to recompensate the victim for all material and immaterial damage, so civil court trial isn't needed	08:56
DocScrutinizer	once you got them sued for a crime	08:56
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mece	hey any garage admins around?	09:24
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wazd	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MSjwUrxT0 , hmmm, this reminds me n900 commercial somehow	09:38
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lcuk	wazd heh	09:52
lcuk	the hand gesture does look more convincing on a device that size	09:52
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rmrfchik	r	10:16
rmrfchik	e	10:16
rmrfchik	If I haven't exchange account, how can I sync my accounts (for backup)?	10:16
rmrfchik	I have linux box	10:16
jacekowski	there is backup in a menu	10:18
rmrfchik	i want to backup to something external ;)	10:19
jacekowski	backup from menu	10:19
rmrfchik	in internetz or to my PC	10:19
jacekowski	connect usb cable	10:19
jacekowski	copy file	10:19
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rmrfchik	it's not handy. no ability to edit, can't be automated	10:21
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tybollt	rmrfchik: automate backup to your sd-card	10:42
tybollt	which you then by hand can pull out and copy the backups off device	10:42
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joppu	wazd: "Access the full web and not just a part of it!" I wonder where this is directed at :P	10:44
tybollt	joppu: is that like turning off "safe search" in google? :D	10:44
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benbrown	hi	10:56
benbrown	anyone know how to prompt for a connection using dbus in c? Or should I just use conic?	10:56
furunk3l	good morning	10:59
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Jaffa	Morning, all	11:11
mece	Jaffa, Mornin'	11:12
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rmrfchik	hmm... I have "Personal account" in accounts which has skype and gmail records, and have dedicated account with mobile phone and same skype and jabber. How can I make maemo to use later as personal?	11:15
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TigerTael	Hi guys	12:26
mece	hi	12:26
TigerTael	Waiting for my N900 to arrive tomorrow. ;P	12:27
slackmagic	TigerTael: you'll be busy playing with it then tomorrow :D	12:28
TigerTael	I know...	12:29
TigerTael	In a nut shell, what's this stuck-dot problem?	12:29
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pupnik	<mp3 alsa test - 10.5hr> continuous mp3 playback through speakers at 80% volume, offline mode -- 50% battery	12:37
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lcuk	TigerTael, stuck dot?	12:38
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ptl	stupid question of the day, when is Microsoft Backoffice being ported to the N900?	12:43
pupnik	<mp3 alsa test - 10.5hr> continuous mp3 playback through speakers at 80% volume, offline mode -- 50% battery	12:44
Termana_n810	lcuk - maybe he's talking about this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35195 ?	12:44
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Shapeshifter	I was guessing "stuck pixel"	12:44
Shapeshifter	could be anything ^^	12:45
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slackmagic	anyone here using pidgin on the n900?	12:45
SpeedEvil	I did once	12:45
SpeedEvil	it diddn't work well for me	12:45
Termana_n810	Shapeshifter, i was just taking a guess myself, as you say - could be anything	12:45
TigerTael	I'm not sure what it is; I've only heard people mentioning it.	12:46
slackmagic	just wondering how well it works to transfer a workstation's pidgin config/settings ($HOME/.purple/) over to the n900 for settings and all	12:46
Termana_n810	TigerTael, unfortunately that doesn't really help us identify what your talking about, sorry.	12:47
SpeedEvil	pupnik: fun	12:48
TigerTael	Termana_n810, maybe it is stuck at booting. I'll have to ask around and see.	12:49
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benbrown	slackmagic: not tried it but it might work if you tar it up and stick it in /home/user/.purple	12:50
benbrown	YMMV	12:50
pupnik	SpeedEvil: it is the darn clicking irssi irc links that kills my battery	12:51
SpeedEvil	?	12:51
slackmagic	benbrown: yep, i think i might just do that rigth now to see how that works out	12:51
pupnik	http links	12:51
SpeedEvil	ah	12:51
benbrown	I've checked on mine and a quick glance at .purple looks as I'd expect it to	12:51
cehteh	mhm the battery warning level is not configureable or?	12:52
pupnik	maybe i build lynx/links into an irssi window - same terminal	12:52
SpeedEvil	pupnik: what does powertop say about active elements of the chip during mp3?	12:52
ShadowJK	ptl, ask microsoft?	12:52
pupnik	i am doing a rundown test atm, not using n900 at all	12:52
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ptl	ShadowJK: it was a rethorical question (classic dodging)	12:54
pupnik	speedevil i saw 6% percent for mplayer at 250mhz	12:55
pupnik	monophonic spoken 128kb/s	12:55
ShadowJK	are you doing mafw vs mplayer-direct-to-alsa test?	12:56
pupnik	just the latter	12:56
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pupnik	then i try to figure why the volume is normally only 10%bvol	12:57
pupnik	vol	12:57
SpeedEvil	pupnik: which codec?	12:58
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SpeedEvil	is the test stereo?	12:58
pupnik	no mono	12:58
pupnik	im sketching controls atm.. applet ftw	13:00
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Wolfie	where are all usability experts in finland? they can't be this scarce...	13:01
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Stskeeps	#maemo-ux? :P	13:01
noobmonk3y	still playing with sounds? :D	13:02
SpeedEvil	wolf: what's anoying you?	13:02
Wolfie	preferably disgruntled or unemployed :)	13:02
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Wolfie	SpeedEvil: that there are none to hire...	13:02
SpeedEvil	ah.	13:02
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* SpeedEvil would offer, but is not in finland, and has no experience on the UI front on the other side of the wall.		13:03
SpeedEvil	My contribution in meetings would solely be to say 'are you insane' over and over again I suspect. :)	13:03
corecode	so am i wrong or can't ovi maps work at all without network connectivity?	13:04
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Wolfie	SpeedEvil: heh :) yeah, i guess telecommuting doesn't really come into question. Or at the very minimum, being able to come on-site every once in a while	13:04
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SpeedEvil	I hear toyota may have UX experts leaving soon.	13:05
noobmonk3y	lol	13:05
burchr	am I a bad person for finding that amusing?	13:06
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ShadowJK	I can induce stuck pedal on my toyota anytime :D	13:17
noobmonk3y	w000p new joiku works a treat :D :D	13:17
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ShadowJK	i just switch on cruise control, and then when I forget about it and car doesn't slow down when I let go of throttle pedal I'm like "wtf", and press the clutch and shortly after there's a "click" as the throttle returns to idle and I suddenly remember I had cruise control on	13:18
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* DocScrutinizer thought cruise control is strictly supposed to switch off on any touch of throttle pedal		13:33
Shrik3	hey, it's a Toyota	13:33
Shrik3	the cruise controll shuts off when it damn well pleases to	13:33
Shrik3	-l	13:33
luke-jr	DocScrutinizer: just brake	13:33
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lardman	DocScrutinizer: some allow small inputs	13:34
lardman	DocScrutinizer: and then fall back to their set speed	13:34
Shrik3	mine goes off on any pedal except throttle	13:35
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Shrik3	so you can speed up to pass people with cruise on, but can't shift gears or break or it'll turn off	13:35
lardman	same, and with throttle it will also go off iirc if I give a large input	13:35
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, probably Wolfie should hire me rather than those toyota UX experts ;-P	13:35
lardman	lol	13:36
Shrik3	UX is easy, just copy apple and avoid what nokia does	13:36
DocScrutinizer	hrhrhrr	13:37
lardman	hmm, I just installed that appinstaller app that X-Fade is talking about, but it doesn't show up....	13:37
DocScrutinizer	like missing c&p ? :-P	13:37
Bactius	someone thougt cruise control was the same as autopilot	13:37
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lardman	hmm, appinstaller is also broken	13:38
DocScrutinizer	Shrik3: seems you're talking bout marketing, not usability	13:39
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corecode	so? gps only works as a-gps, never standalone?	13:49
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Stskeeps	it works standalone if you are in open space	13:49
JimiDini	corecode: that depends on definition of "works"	13:49
burchr	Stskeeps: even if you're not, it works some/most of the time	13:50
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burchr	(provided it had a fix close by previously)	13:50
SpeedEvil	works as in gets lock after at worst case 10 mins.	13:50
SpeedEvil	(in my tests)	13:50
burchr	I usually get a fix inside after about 5-10 minutes	13:50
burchr	outside is usually quicker	13:50
SpeedEvil	After clearing GPS, and having no SIM, and not using GPS at all.	13:50
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JimiDini	without a-gps it is slow as hell (in my experience) and quality of receiver is poor comparing to specialized gps-receivers	13:51
corecode	JimiDini: ovi maps seemed to give up	13:51
SpeedEvil	yes.	13:51
SpeedEvil	corecode: there is a fix coming in ovi maps	13:51
JimiDini	corecode: that's software problems	13:51
SpeedEvil	also yuou can run any othe rgps thing that doesn't give up, and maps will use the conneciton	13:52
corecode	ah ok	13:53
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* luke-jr notes most times when he needs GPS, he needs it now and 10 minutes makes it useless :p		13:54
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Shrik3	why can't the GPS update its position every hour or so	13:55
Shrik3	since the initial lock-on takes longer the farther the GPS thinks it is from where it actually is	13:55
corecode	yea	13:55
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corecode	i'd like to have that happening infrequently	13:55
SpeedEvil	Shrik3: because nobodies done that yet	13:56
Shrik3	oh wait, The Community is supposed to do that	13:56
Shrik3	Nokia can't be arsed =)	13:56
corecode	is there a way to find which current cell you're in?	13:56
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SpeedEvil	yes	13:56
SpeedEvil	monitor dbus	13:57
SpeedEvil	there are events	13:57
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corecode	so the agps info for a given cell can be cached, or is agps the almanach?	13:57
corecode	could still be cached for some time	13:57
SpeedEvil	teh almanac	13:57
corecode	i c	13:57
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SpeedEvil	it seems to - from performance - only cache at best the ephemiriedes	13:58
corecode	cell info would be sufficient for coarse location	13:58
corecode	i.e. downtown vs work vs home	13:58
corecode	poor man's location-based reminders	13:58
Shrik3	yeah	13:58
Shrik3	and it'd be extra super happy fun time if you could input a default location for a given cell	13:59
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Shrik3	"if I'm at this cell tower, there's a 99% chance that I'm at work and thus sitting exactly here"	13:59
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* DocScrutinizer notes he has seen exactly same issue with NEO FR GPS, and that's been a mere sw problem		14:07
luke-jr	Shrik3: the community can't do it.	14:08
DocScrutinizer	so to blame hw receiver for poor sensitivity / whatever is debatable	14:08
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luke-jr	Shrik3: Nokia won't give us the code ;)	14:08
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: the community can do it.	14:09
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: it's possible just by turning on the GPS every hour for a minute or until lock.	14:09
DocScrutinizer	corecode: it seems nokias location services lib is doing exactly that, or at least it's planned	14:09
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: it may be possible to do it more optimally if you had the GPS code that runs on the phone module, but that's never, ever going to happen	14:09
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: minus the fact that GPS doesn't work at all. :)	14:09
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: recall I'm still on N810	14:09
rmrfchik	I use keepassx on desktop to keep passwords. I Wonder, is there something compatible on maemo5?	14:09
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: ah - that	14:09
SpeedEvil	luke-jr: forgot you had obsolete hardware.	14:10
tybollt	rmrfchik: keepassx is available on the N900 =)	14:10
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: using no SIM, using the GPS-state-wipe tool - outside - it took up to 10 mins to lock.	14:10
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: that is not great performance.	14:10
rmrfchik	tybollt: oh, url?	14:11
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: see my comment on sw problem on gta02	14:11
tybollt	rmrfchik: it's in the repos =)	14:11
tybollt	rmrfchik: hang on	14:11
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: yes	14:12
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tybollt	rmrfchik: http://maemo.org/packages/view/keepassx/	14:12
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DocScrutinizer	corecode: Shrik3: ""LOCATION_METHOD_CWP - Complementary Wireless Positioning: ... or coordinates based on currently used GSM base station.""	14:18
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DocScrutinizer	err	14:21
DocScrutinizer	~ping	14:21
pupnik	cool	14:21
infobot	~pong	14:21
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DocScrutinizer	friggin 3G gives me frequent timeouts on irc	14:22
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DocScrutinizer51	what a shit	14:22
sar3th	:\|	14:23
rmrfchik	Nokia-N900-51-1:~# apt-cache search keepass	14:23
rmrfchik	Nokia-N900-51-1:~#	14:23
rmrfchik	:(	14:23
cehteh	DocScrutinizer: openvpn ...	14:23
tybollt	RepositoryLatest version	14:23
tybollt	Fremantle Extras-devel free armelkeepassx 0.4.1	14:23
rmrfchik	ah, it's devel	14:23
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Shrik3	keep-ass	14:23
tybollt	rmrfchik: do you have devel repo?	14:23
Shrik3	too bad it's still 1.x only	14:23
rmrfchik	not yet	14:24
Shrik3	so you can't share databases with a 2.0 desktop client	14:24
rmrfchik	gimme sec	14:24
DocScrutinizer	keep ass what?	14:24
tybollt	whooa	14:24
rmrfchik	x ass	14:24
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* burchr blinks		14:25
burchr	I take my eyes off #maemo for one minute and I come back to this?	14:25
SpeedEvil	x marks the spot	14:25
lardman	should be keepassxxx really	14:25
tybollt	woot?	14:26
tybollt	really, I couldn't find any of that in there?	14:27
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rmrfchik	finding the right way to transfer files to user on n900	14:34
rmrfchik	I have root by ssh with password, but can't login with user by public key auth.	14:34
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Shrik3	well set up pubkey auth then?	14:35
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rmrfchik	Shrik3: in sshd_config Pubkey is enabled	14:36
SpeedEvil	check permissions on ~/.ssh/*	14:36
SpeedEvil	should be 600	14:36
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SpeedEvil	also you need to set a user password	14:37
rmrfchik	drwx------ 2 user users 4096 Mar 9 15:29 /home/user/.ssh	14:37
rmrfchik	-rw------- 1 user users 223 Mar 9 15:29 /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys	14:37
SpeedEvil	And ensure your ~ is not a silly mode	14:37
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rmrfchik	I've enabled empty passwords in sshd_config and restared sshd	14:37
rmrfchik	SpeedEvil: silly?	14:37
SpeedEvil	777	14:37
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rmrfchik	drwxr-xr-x	14:38
SpeedEvil	looks ok	14:38
thresh	rmrfchik: subst ! by * in /etc/passwd for user	14:38
rmrfchik	is it safe to set password for user?	14:38
thresh	no need to set it.	14:38
thresh	worksforme (tm)	14:38
SpeedEvil	If you just copy over /root/.ssh to ~user/,ssh does it work - after chown	14:38
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thresh	that is not the issue	14:38
rmrfchik	thresh: no help...	14:39
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rmrfchik	thresh: did you hacked sshd_config?	14:39
thresh	i'm using /etc/sshd/authorized_keys2/$username though	14:40
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rmrfchik	keys in /etc/ssh?	14:41
rmrfchik	hm	14:41
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DocScrutinizer	anybody? libosso-abook (or relatives) - how ould I get a handle or the full content to/of a contact that matches a certain condition, e.g. contact for inbound number?	14:42
DocScrutinizer	you should think there's a generic method to do such a search	14:43
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thresh	rmrfchik: yeah but that shouldnt be an issue	14:43
rmrfchik	will check later	14:43
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DocScrutinizer	rmrfchik: don't do that. it's silly	14:46
rmrfchik	what is silly. I did a lot of things ;)	14:47
DocScrutinizer	keeping authkeys in /etc/ssh is silly, on N900	14:47
rmrfchik	i'm not going to do this. I will use ~user/.ssh as I always do	14:48
DocScrutinizer	btw pubkey auth for user works like a charm here	14:48
tybollt	yeah	14:48
tybollt	pubkey++	14:48
DocScrutinizer	all it needed was checking perms for ~, ~/.ssh, and ~/.shh/autorized_keys	14:49
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rmrfchik	lol, my fault. when copy-pasting "ssh-rsa" became "sh-rsa" ;)	14:50
rmrfchik	now works	14:51
TigerTael	heh	14:51
tybollt	dsa>rsa	14:51
rmrfchik	i have rsa from ages	14:52
thresh	dsa is < rsa, actually	14:52
tybollt	of course it depends on implementation but perhaps so :)	14:53
DocScrutinizer	and my safe is made of 50cm steel	14:53
* derf points lardman's welding laser at it.		14:54
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thresh	iirc, rsa is faster in verifying while providing the same level of security	14:55
tybollt	thresh: I'd go ask Schneier but... meh :)	14:56
thresh	:-)	14:56
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* DocScrutinizer opens backside wooden door of safe and places a stinky cheese inside the empty thing, so derf will find at least some reward for the effort		14:59
tybollt	mmmh	14:59
tybollt	stinky cheese	14:59
* tybollt is drooling		14:59
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DocScrutinizer	osso-abook anybody? I'm lost :-/	15:03
mece	hey is there a wiki on how to add your application to bugs.maemo.org?	15:03
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lcuk	yes mece something like the maintainers guide	15:04
noobmonk3y	mece - just email bugzilla team, but yes there is a wiki - will find it	15:04
lcuk	ive read it but cant remember specifically where	15:04
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mece	hmm this perhaps: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products	15:07
noobmonk3y	http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products	15:07
noobmonk3y	lol	15:07
noobmonk3y	damn u beat me too it	15:07
noobmonk3y	yup tis the one	15:07
noobmonk3y	i sent a basic one, got one done fine	15:08
DocScrutinizer	nm, found osso_abook_aggregator_find_contacts_for_phone_number ()	15:08
lardman	hmm, what's the normal number of chars to line wrap at?	15:09
lardman	my email client screws up ml posts quite royally	15:09
thresh	78 ?	15:10
noobmonk3y	depends on the font size doesnt it?	15:10
derf	72.	15:10
lardman	noobmonk3y: font size?!	15:10
* noobmonk3y starts noting down lottery numbers... doh too high		15:10
lardman	plain text my boy	15:10
noobmonk3y	well the bigger the font the less characters can fit on	15:10
thresh	yes, 72, my bad	15:10
lardman	derf: that's what I've gone for, may well just be that Outlook is crap at reformatting existing quoted text	15:10
noobmonk3y	plain text? whats that ;) hehe	15:11
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derf	lardman: It certainly is that.	15:11
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thresh	first non-wrapped e-mails, then flash-only websites, then they piss over the urinals.	15:12
lardman	I'm bound to it by lots of archived data though	15:12
lardman	however when I get my new PC, I will break the shackles	15:12
crs	Hm. I am gonna ask once again. Sorry. Is there a way to get something like a widget with text field to update facebook statuses?	15:13
noobmonk3y	don't apologise :D	15:13
lardman	you can't iirc have text boxes on the desktop	15:13
noobmonk3y	hmmm a one tap widget and update app (Similar to googlesearch etc) could work :D	15:14
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crs	Why is that? Is there no application like for a iphone so on facebook it says: updated with iphone app or something like that?	15:14
lardman	I don;t have an iPhone, sorry	15:15
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noobmonk3y	iphone, whats one of them apples?	15:15
noobmonk3y	hm mmm talk pages going sloooooooooooooooow	15:15
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lardman	I've not looked at TMO for weeks, not much point now	15:15
crs	never used ip. just've seen those updates on fb.	15:15
lardman	as I'll have to sit there for weeks seeing what I've missed	15:15
AndrewFBlack	lardman: you havn't missed much	15:16
lardman	crs: it would probably be possible to write one, assuming the api is open	15:16
lardman	AndrewFBlack: :)	15:16
noobmonk3y	facebook api is actually not too bad... reasonably user friendly	15:16
noobmonk3y	hmmmm who's the best person to harrass if i feel a wiki page needs a few changes and more visibility?	15:18
lardman	you should be able to make changes yourself to most pages	15:19
lardman	otherwise probably dneary	15:19
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noobmonk3y	Hmm i think i want a more open discussion as my views are normally wrong - might add it to a post on tmo when it becomes alive	15:20
crs	lardman: Is there a way I could place a 'demand' for that app?	15:20
noobmonk3y	lol demand?	15:20
noobmonk3y	or request?	15:20
lardman	crs: you could try asking on TMO and see if someone fancies writing something	15:21
noobmonk3y	create a thread in tmo titled [REQUEST] App name... and be decriptive	15:21
lardman	brainstorm perhaps?	15:21
mece	I think the [REQUEST] approach would be better.	15:22
crs	lardman: TMO stands for T… maemo.org?	15:23
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hrw	task-slugos talk	15:27
hrw	ops	15:27
hrw	crs: talk	15:27
crs	thanks.	15:27
crs	Got another question.	15:27
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crs	I have some linux skills. How could I approach such a problem: I want to disable skype once connected to my home wifi (and work one for example - so there must be a list of wifi's) and enable back it as soon as I connect to mobile internet or wifi which is not on the list.	15:28
crs	s:(back)\ (it):\2 \1:	15:29
MohammadAG	browser controls don't show up in landscape mode :/	15:29
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lardman	hi hrw	15:31
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lardman	crs: interesting	15:33
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crs	lardman: Do you think it is possible/acceptable easy?	15:34
lardman	there is an event framework that you could hook into	15:34
lardman	I think it's possible	15:34
lardman	not sure how you'd be able to disable skype though, but I guess there are ways, just not sure how pretty	15:34
crs	checking in cron seems like one of sollutions	15:34
lardman	nah not cron, there's an event framework in extras*, so you could hook into wifi connection events	15:35
crs	lardman: is there a disconnect event available?	15:35
lardman	but cron-like	15:35
lardman	dunno	15:35
lardman	I've not even tried it, I was originally thinking of achipa's sheperd framework, but not sure where that's got to	15:35
lardman	shepherd of course	15:36
crs	Problem seems to be interesting, indeed. Now, I sit at my desk at home, chatting on skype and for every single msg I am getting notofication on phone as well.	15:36
* rmrfchik is missing aptitude feature which shows "New packages" after updating		15:37
crs	lardman: How is that package called you were talking about?	15:39
hrw	rmrfchik: not only you	15:39
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lardman	crs: good question, not sure, I just saw something with the description event framework when I was browsing the other day	15:40
lardman	sorry, not much help there	15:40
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DocScrutinizer	dwimd?	15:43
lardman	is that the framework name?	15:44
crs	nope, does not look like. :)	15:46
* Arif_ yawns		15:46
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pupnik	curses. i somehow jostled display and it turned on.	15:48
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Arif_	werz ma firmwarz? :(	15:51
rmrfchik	fbreader-page-buttons: Depends: fbreader (= 0.10.7-1) but 0.10.7-10 is to be installed	15:51
rmrfchik	:(	15:51
RST38h	You do not need this package	15:52
RST38h	No idea why it is still there	15:52
tybollt	Arif_++	15:53
Arif_	well	15:53
DocScrutinizer	fleas ate it	15:53
Arif_	they can delay it if they make the media player non sucky	15:53
Arif_	:p	15:53
DocScrutinizer	ack	15:54
tybollt	yes	15:54
Arif_	which I doubt	15:54
tybollt	that	15:55
Arif_	they'll just fix 3 bugs I never had	15:55
Arif_	;(	15:55
DocScrutinizer	lol	15:55
* RST38h wonders if it is possible at all to make the media player non sucky		15:55
RST38h	Given the amount of problems	15:55
DocScrutinizer	nothing a complete rewrite can't do	15:56
Arif_	if they put more than 2 hours of work into it	15:56
Arif_	:P	15:56
RST38h	DocScrut: In a clean room free of Nokia UX people	15:56
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DocScrutinizer	hrhrhrrrrhrrrrr	15:56
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* tybollt wonders if maemo suffers from the same problem freerunner etc did		15:57
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SpeedEvil	tybollt: in some ways, yes	15:57
DocScrutinizer	which one of the 500k specifically?	15:57
Arif_	what are those problems	15:57
SpeedEvil	:)	15:57
tybollt	the people in charge change direction so often the techs do not have enough time to implement something sane	15:57
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SpeedEvil	that's pretty much it.	15:57
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tybollt	like...	15:57
SpeedEvil	Though nokia at least puts enough resources in to get a basically functional system at each iteration.	15:58
DocScrutinizer	tybollt: aaah THAT one	15:58
tybollt	now the developers were focusing on fixing maemo, they all of a sudden find themselves working on meego	15:58
SpeedEvil	Added to no communication between the corporate descisionmaking, and communitu	15:58
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: jury's still out on that one	15:58
SpeedEvil	which is again familiar	15:58
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: I was meaning more of OMs problems	15:58
RST38h	no reason why corporates SHOULD communicate with you	15:59
RST38h	you are no shareholder	15:59
SpeedEvil	RST38h: Indeed - however - if they want apps - they have to communicate to that community	15:59
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: I was meaning the "enough resources to get something"	15:59
RST38h	Speed: They do not want apps.	16:00
SpeedEvil	RST38h: they're acting like it	16:00
RST38h	Speed: Corporate people are completely different from normal technical people. Just look at Ari Jaaksi's blog	16:00
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rmrfchik	built-in contacts is epic fail :(	16:00
RST38h	work for me	16:00
DocScrutinizer	it's a gasbrain	16:01
DocScrutinizer	no custom fields, insane combinatoric explosion if dial-buttons	16:01
DocScrutinizer	...	16:01
DocScrutinizer	of*	16:02
SpeedEvil	Contacts works fine for me.	16:02
RST38h	Speed: Even if they do at some level of abstraction understand that they want people to use/develop for their platform, the details of this process completely escape them	16:02
SpeedEvil	Of course - I have 4...	16:02
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SpeedEvil	RST38h: yes, I know.	16:02
RST38h	Speed: It is considered something for the lower-level subordinates to figure out	16:02
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DocScrutinizer	and then osso-abook :-((	16:04
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RST38h	Speed: As far as my crystal balls are telling me, the main goals for the Nokia corporates are 1) sell more hardware 2) minimize non-essential expenses, such as developing and supporting firmware	16:04
edheldil	nah, it's 1) Make more money	16:04
tybollt	MOAR	16:04
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RST38h	Where #2 is done by methods that have not changed for decades (i.e. large unfrequent firmware updates, separate code branch for each device, etc)	16:05
SpeedEvil	RST38h: yes.	16:05
DocScrutinizer	2) make more money 3)..10) even MORE	16:05
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DocScrutinizer	and it's ok	16:05
RST38h	Doc: Nothing wrong with wanting to make more money	16:05
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RST38h	Doc: Nokia is a business, it exists for making money	16:05
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RST38h	Doc: BTW, nothing wrong with selling more hardware either	16:06
DocScrutinizer	agree, see last line	16:06
RST38h	It is #2 that is starting to develop some cracks, compared to other companies	16:06
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Arif_	did someone say cracks? :P	16:10
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rmrfchik	beat my shiny metal ass!	16:11
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thresh	"bite"	16:11
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lardman	anyone had any dealings with directX?	16:13
lardman	specifically video pipelines, or whatever they call them	16:13
rmrfchik	o_O	16:13
* rmrfchik is checking channel name		16:13
VDVsx	does installing it counts ? :D	16:13
rmrfchik	oh, good, it's still maemo	16:13
* VDVsx hides		16:13
RST38h	lardman: only directdraw here. and it sucks.	16:14
RST38h	thresh: Why, beating also works...	16:14
lardman	hmm, perhaps that's what I want	16:14
AndrewFBlack	whats full location of the MyDocs folder?	16:14
lardman	I need to intercept some video that is being written to file	16:14
RST38h	lardman: No, that is not what you want	16:15
lardman	apparently it's being done using direct-something	16:15
VDVsx	AndrewFBlack, /home/user/MyDocs	16:15
lardman	RST38h: oh, shame, np	16:15
thresh	RST38h: you never watched futurama, did you?	16:15
RST38h	thresh: No, although I am omewhat familiar with the main characters	16:15
AndrewFBlack	VDVsx: ohh yeah forgot it hasn't moved I keep thinking it should be listed as a mmc because its on a card now	16:16
* RST38h almost swallows a spoon: The Independent is now owner by a Russian oligarch		16:16
RST38h	owned	16:16
RST38h	How ironic =)	16:16
VDVsx	~lart FF	16:17
* infobot beats FF severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken		16:17
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lardman	hmm, looks like I need to write a DirectX Media Object and replace the one this app uses so I can get access to the raw data	16:18
lardman	drat	16:18
cvandonderen	hello	16:19
cvandonderen	does anybody know how to connect XMing to the N900?	16:19
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lardman	~curse equipment suppliers unwilling to make small sw modifications to make my life easier	16:21
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, equipment suppliers unwilling to make small sw modifications to make my life easier !	16:21
lardman	infobot: they probably already are, try again	16:22
VDVsx	ehehe	16:23
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rmrfchik	is there keyboard layout indicator in status bar?	16:25
lardman	SpeedEvil: you about?	16:26
lardman	or any other electronics gurus?	16:26
lardman	SPI -> Bluetooth, cheapest way?	16:26
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DocScrutinizer	lardman: uh?	16:30
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lardman	DocScrutinizer: just pondering compasses again	16:31
DocScrutinizer	aah	16:31
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DocScrutinizer	lardman: BT->rs232, with special driver and then bitbanging RTS/CTS/foo/bar should do	16:33
DocScrutinizer	or BT->lpt	16:34
lardman	hmm, sounds like a steep learning curve	16:34
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DocScrutinizer	bt doesn't come for free	16:35
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lardman	I know	16:35
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thesov	anyone know if the meego os will be available for the n900	16:35
DocScrutinizer	no	16:36
thesov	crud	16:37
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cehteh	someone at nokia probably know :)	16:40
DocScrutinizer	no	16:40
DocScrutinizer	:-P	16:40
Hoxzer	>:( I hope they dont break the non-gui compatability	16:40
DocScrutinizer	someone at nokia might think he knows	16:41
cehteh	haha .. well someone at nokia doesnt know that he doesnt know it :)	16:41
cehteh	Hoxzer: they will	16:41
cehteh	the middleware will be replaced in big parts coming from moblin	16:41
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* cehteh wonders if they keep device specific things like bme and mce		16:42
Arif_	buy a new device!	16:42
cehteh	no	16:42
cehteh	i stay and develop on n900 .. if things dont work on a device i dont own i dont care	16:43
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cehteh	and i'd suggest to any devel to do the same :P	16:43
DocScrutinizer	ack	16:43
cehteh	thats progressive and the only thing the community can do to push nokia to provide meego for the n900	16:44
cehteh	i dont like the ideas telling to abadon nokia, maemo or whatever ..	16:44
Arif_	port your apps to the new device	16:45
Arif_	and demand one from Nokia :P	16:45
cehteh	no i dont care .. point	16:45
lcuk	cehteh, i think the intent is to write everything in qt	16:46
lcuk	and the middleware layer problem vanishes	16:46
cehteh	well i am not real maemo developer yet just fixing my own itches .. but if i would, then asking nokia for a device (which they surely give out for serious developers) still leaves customers and not-as serious developers (like i am now) behind	16:47
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cehteh	lcuk: meego will support gtk as well	16:47
cehteh	and for myself i dont like qt that much, might make sense as platform for such a device, but i still dont like it	16:47
noobmonk3y	it will? - but lcuck does know all :) (You can find his words of wisdom inside christmas crackers too!)	16:48
noobmonk3y	lcuk even *	16:48
burchr	lcuk's wisdom will be written in email signatures for thousands of yers to come	16:48
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cehteh	Qt is certainly the offical route nokia takes and all core apps will be qt	16:48
burchr	s/yers/years/	16:48
infobot	burchr meant: lcuk's wisdom will be written in email signatures for thousands of years to come	16:48
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noobmonk3y	infobot: is on the ball today ;)	16:51
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Arif_	hmm	16:56
Arif_	I made a mess of my codecs ;(	16:56
tybollt	you made a mess?	16:56
tybollt	awww	16:56
tybollt	here - a fresh diaper for you	16:56
Arif_	that won't make h264 play...	16:57
noobmonk3y	awww codec diapers!	16:57
* Arif_ hits tybollt with codecs		16:57
noobmonk3y	codec slapping too? wow... this place is going downhill ;)	16:57
Arif_	why can't people just use one standard, damnit	16:57
Arif_	:P	16:57
noobmonk3y	pen and paper will sooooon rullle the world i say!	16:57
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noobmonk3y	until apple bring out the ifruit pen... then we are all buggered	16:58
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Lumpio-	ew	16:58
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noobmonk3y	oh fcuck... they already have - http://www.mikejamesmedia.com/modo_media/modo_wip/ipad_ipen/ipad_ipen_004b.jpg	16:58
noobmonk3y	doom i say, dooooooooooooooooom	16:59
alden	http://nextwebblogs.thenextweb.netdna-cdn.com/shareables/files/2010/02/The-Future-of-Apple.jpg	17:01
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noobmonk3y	loving the imat ;) - iTwister following ;)	17:04
lcuk	cehteh, of course it will	17:05
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Arif_	oo	17:05
Arif_	iPaper	17:05
Arif_	you can only write on with an iPencil	17:05
Arif_	and it can't be erased	17:05
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noobmonk3y	lol.... invisible iink ;)	17:07
Arif_	and you can store it in an iMap	17:07
tybollt	these jokes are a tad ... old, no?	17:08
Arif_	yes	17:08
lcuk	iOld?	17:08
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noobmonk3y	oh the genius...	17:09
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noobmonk3y	dont joke the i900 may just be your next paper-based-smart-pad	17:10
Arif_	Samsung has one :p	17:10
noobmonk3y	:D true, as good as a piece of ipaper too.	17:10
lcuk	noobmonk3y, nahhh	17:10
lcuk	iphone doesnt like using stylus/pen	17:10
lcuk	liqbase on maemo/meego/hp will do that	17:10
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Arif_	iPhone feeds on your money ={	17:11
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lcuk	iphone users are iBabies, they still do finger painting	17:11
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Arif_	hmm	17:11
Arif_	no new apps in Ovi yet	17:12
tybollt	ovi store?	17:12
tybollt	yeah...	17:12
* Arif_ checks every day :D		17:12
tybollt	good luck w/ ovi store... :-)	17:12
noobmonk3y	ovi what? that thing still going?	17:12
Arif_	I can't buy something if they add it anyway	17:12
Arif_	=}	17:12
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Karlosos	is qt the only programme i can play with to make apps or is there others	17:15
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noobmonk3y	karlosos - by program do you mean IDE?	17:18
noobmonk3y	or programming language?	17:18
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Karlosos	i dont realy know just beginning to learn qt now so maybe i might ask when i know more	17:21
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noobmonk3y	QT is the best ide that i know off, but can depend on a few things, search the developers pages on maemo.org :D will give you some ideas :D	17:23
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Karlosos	cheers i will do but i aint no programmer but am very quick at learning when it comes to pc's	17:24
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noobmonk3y	i didnt have a clue a month ago and now have an app in testing (OK with a lot of help, hehe)	17:25
noobmonk3y	i started from scratch on linux, qt and python (pyQT)	17:25
Karlosos	nice to know i aint by myself lol	17:25
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* lcuk is still a noob in some respects and even fired up and made a vb application the other night		17:26
noobmonk3y	hehe there is a fw of us - this channel is a good place to get help too :D	17:26
Karlosos	people keep saying you need to be a programmer to do all this but you have just proved u dont	17:26
lcuk	noobmonk3y, you are a dev in dayjob arent you?	17:26
noobmonk3y	naaa you definitley do not :) - lcuk will prove that i am not a master programmer, he has seen my code lol	17:26
noobmonk3y	i'm an IT advisor lol	17:26
noobmonk3y	but not a coder lol	17:26
lcuk	you still arent	17:27
noobmonk3y	i spend my days writing strategy for the NHS lol	17:27
noobmonk3y	but yes do have experience in flash, vb etc	17:27
noobmonk3y	but very similar to what i have done in pyqt....	17:27
noobmonk3y	i learn it, use it and then move on, if i need it again i normally relearn	17:27
* noobmonk3y 's brain is a sieve		17:27
* noobmonk3y is going to bit*ch slap the laptop with safeboot on it behind me soon.... fan is going mad!		17:28
Karlosos	when i first started with pc's 6 years ago got taught all the ilegal stuff and within an hour i ws showing the guy who taught me stuff so i can say i do learn quick	17:28
Karlosos	if a comp does ma head in i just do a format cant be arsed messing around cause sometimes messing takes llonger that a format	17:30
noobmonk3y	cool :) - well in the pyqt example... i've ended up coding and testing on the device using pygtk editor (just a notepad that can run the pythong files really).... i only use qt when i want to redesign the gui - saying that it probably isnt the best way :D	17:30
noobmonk3y	hello world will take you a grand total of about 2 minutes to write and run to get something going :D	17:30
lcuk	noobmonk3y, sounds perfectly sensivble if you ask me	17:30
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lcuk	sensible too	17:31
noobmonk3y	hehe - saves me arsing around with ssh (Which does work well to be fair)	17:31
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Funnyface	yay my N900 has been shipped, I hope it'll arrive soon :)	17:31
Karlosos	ok so its going to take me a while to have an app made	17:31
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lcuk	Karlosos, you can have an app made in 10 minutes	17:31
noobmonk3y	Funnyface: W000000000p	17:32
lcuk	however you would not understand it for a lot longer	17:32
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noobmonk3y	yup you can :D - and published to extras-devel in 45 :D	17:32
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Karlosos	nice lcuk i take it your from leicester	17:33
noobmonk3y	lol	17:33
noobmonk3y	manc arn't ya? ;)	17:33
Karlosos	i am huddersfield	17:33
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noobmonk3y	darn northeners ;) - technically anything north of the a27 is a northener for me ;)	17:34
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Karlosos	us northerners are a pain but not has bad as you southerners lol	17:35
noobmonk3y	hehe :) - i'm 1/2 aussie - so quite southern at times :D	17:35
* burchr stares at noobmonk3y		17:35
burchr	I thought I was the only one	17:36
burchr	:P	17:36
* noobmonk3y winks at burchr		17:36
noobmonk3y	hehehe	17:36
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burchr	where in aus were you from?	17:36
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noobmonk3y	lcuk: 8 days to go 12/10 thumbs up's :D	17:36
noobmonk3y	Ahhh now this is a looooooong story :D (Adopted, both rents where aussie)	17:36
noobmonk3y	born in london though	17:37
Karlosos	othe only think wrong with this phone is i feel as if i should be in the series 24 catching terrorists lol	17:37
noobmonk3y	but - Bendigo :D	17:37
noobmonk3y	lol Karlosos	17:37
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Karlosos	does anybody else think this type of phone could cause world problems	17:39
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Karlosos	i aint complaining cause i love it but seriously you could do so much damage with this	17:40
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Bactius	many great inventions can be used for both good and evil	17:43
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Karlosos	think of all those we will never get to use	17:44
noobmonk3y	lol :)	17:45
noobmonk3y	world damage sounds fun to me :D	17:45
* noobmonk3y has a nice cup of coffee :D		17:45
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Karlosos	can you hack into peoples phones using bluetooth with this	17:46
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noobmonk3y	hmmmm ... dont think so easily, but there is a wireless sniffer around	17:46
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noobmonk3y	think it sniffs images out of wireless - will test that in a few weeks - when i use joiku for a bit	17:47
Karlosos	lol	17:47
noobmonk3y	How long have you had your device?	17:48
mtd	anybody have microSD card recommendations for the n900?	17:48
noobmonk3y	erm, mine works fine, lol - no idea what it is mtd	17:48
Karlosos	get some homemade pornographic videos lol people beware dont leave homemade images noobmonk3y is going to get ya	17:48
noobmonk3y	hahaha ;)	17:48
Bactius	lol	17:48
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Karlosos	2 weeks now	17:49
noobmonk3y	cool :) - have you delved into testing or devel yet?	17:49
DocScrutinizer	mtd: don't buy kingston	17:49
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DocScrutinizer	http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918	17:49
Karlosos	yeah but scared to now cause had a theme problem which i uninstalled programmes to get themes working again	17:49
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cvandonderen	Is there anywhere where I can enable XDMCP on the N900?	17:50
DocScrutinizer	mtd: I got me a nokia 16BG, reasonable priced and works	17:50
cvandonderen	there is no /etc/X11/xdm or whatever	17:50
noobmonk3y	lol all depends on the problem :D	17:50
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noobmonk3y	Karlosos: my app healthcheck is in testing if you fancy seeing what took me a month to do :)	17:50
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mtd	DocScrutinizer: thanks	17:51
noobmonk3y	good link DocScrutinizer	17:51
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Karlosos	if i download something and breaks this i aint covered for a new one	17:51
abe3k	hello	17:51
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noobmonk3y	hehe, you can always frelash - but i'd recommend you learn and understand the flasher :D	17:51
noobmonk3y	re-flash*	17:52
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Karlosos	but i do go in and try so if i does break its my own fault anyway cause they warn you	17:52
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noobmonk3y	hehe, rule of thumb in testing is check the package scores first, doesnt auto matically make it safe, but does mean the testers are trying to break it and havnt yet if there are high scores	17:52
Karlosos	i tried reflashing when i had the problem but have read vodafone has put a lock on so you cant	17:52
noobmonk3y	http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/healthcheck/0.6.0-5/	17:53
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noobmonk3y	voda locks things?	17:53
noobmonk3y	really?	17:53
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noobmonk3y	i'm UK vodafone (through MPD) - and reflashed to generic firmware last month	17:53
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noobmonk3y	doesnt sound right to me	17:53
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noobmonk3y	as far as i am aware there is no supplier software on any of them.........yet	17:54
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m2cm2c	hi guys :)	17:54
Karlosos	it let me get to flasher mode but wouldnt go any further maybe me doing a mistake but i followed to the exact	17:54
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noobmonk3y	hey m2cm2c	17:54
m2cm2c	noobmonk3y, hey :)	17:54
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noobmonk3y	hmmm doesnt sound correct - should work, happy to walk you through it one day as i will prob reflash mine soon :D - nice to start afresh every so often	17:55
DocScrutinizer	nonsense	17:55
Karlosos	is the generic one the new firmware only in us	17:55
noobmonk3y	there is a worldwide generic firmware	17:55
Karlosos	whats the difference	17:55
m2cm2c	I'm wondering if any of you guys use my lfocus script on the n900	17:56
noobmonk3y	none that i can see yet, lots of rumours on t.m.o about it ...... something about UK suppliers having issues blah blah	17:56
noobmonk3y	lfocus?	17:56
noobmonk3y	that the video focus one?	17:56
m2cm2c	yes	17:56
nid0	the issue you're getting with the flasher will be more down to using win7 x64 or similar rather than it being "locked" - there are no n900's that're locked from reflashing, and afaik that wouldnt be possible even if an operator wanted to	17:56
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noobmonk3y	hhh read about it, not used it yet :( sry	17:56
noobmonk3y	ahhhhhh*	17:56
noobmonk3y	good point nid0	17:56
DocScrutinizer	there's a voda image. But that's probably just some nagware they decided to add	17:56
m2cm2c	cool	17:56
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noobmonk3y	brb fresh air break :D	17:56
Karlosos	i am on vista	17:57
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nid0	theres no nagware on the voda image, as far as it's possible to tell 203 variant == 205 variant	17:57
nid0	and both 203 and 205 basically == global	17:57
Karlosos	when you install the firmware where do u run it or do u need to double click it	17:57
m2cm2c	I was wondering if theres a way to disable the dimming applied on the background when you open up a dialog over the camera app with python	17:57
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Bactius	lol I read V	17:58
Bactius	"vodka image"	17:58
Karlosos	image yes	17:59
DocScrutinizer	btw never claim it's impossible to lock the phone. See what moto did to milestone	18:00
DocScrutinizer	and /me away now, before I get started about N9xx+ with TPM chip and DRM :-(((	18:01
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tybollt	w/ moto?	18:02
tybollt	isn't the whole android thing about lockin?	18:02
noobmonk3y	Karlosos: you run it via the flasher software on your pc (command prompt normally)	18:02
tybollt	isn't that why n900/maemi gained momentum? it was !lockin	18:02
tybollt	was supposed to be	18:02
noobmonk3y	mine was a 203 image, now generic no major change apart from new firmware benefits (supposedly)	18:02
Karlosos	noobmonk3y thanks thats where i made mistake i thought you had to run through command	18:03
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noobmonk3y	:D took about 4 mins to flash and about 1 hour to re-install the apps (Settings where saved in the backup i did prior)	18:03
nid0	I got the entire process done in ~10 mins when I reflashed from uk generic to global :p	18:04
m2cm2c	noobmonk3y, I always download the apps separately and keep them backed up :D	18:04
Karlosos	i would just start afresh and download all again lol	18:04
noobmonk3y	:D	18:04
nid0	it will download them all again	18:04
DocScrutinizer	tybollt: HTC is andridiot and still they hack it and have new free OS. Milestone is locktite bootloader	18:04
nid0	the backup just keeps a list of the apps and the repos theyre in	18:04
noobmonk3y	yeah it tells you what you had and asks you to dload, so be on a wireless and away you go	18:05
nid0	then when you restore the backup it adds the repos and redownloads them	18:05
noobmonk3y	:D	18:05
noobmonk3y	all nice n easy :D	18:05
tybollt	DocScrutinizer: aaah you mean like that	18:05
Karlosos	ok i will get off now and give it a go	18:06
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m2cm2c	byebye	18:10
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josephnexus	hello everyone!	18:30
josephnexus	i ordered my n900 and am setting up my IMAP server for mail syncing	18:30
josephnexus	does the n900 support offline syncing of IMAP folders?	18:30
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josephnexus	my concern is what happens when I don't have data access (out of range or something) and I need to reference something in an old message	18:31
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noobmonk3y	w0000p	18:34
noobmonk3y	lo josephnexus	18:34
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noobmonk3y	erm good question	18:35
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josephnexus	i'd hope I can use somet of that 32GB for email	18:35
josephnexus	i've got like 3GB of mail (after compression)	18:35
josephnexus	so probably 4 or 5 GB of mail	18:35
noobmonk3y	lol	18:35
josephnexus	that i'd like to have accessible all of the time	18:35
noobmonk3y	any specific mail supplier or just generic?	18:35
josephnexus	just a generic IMAP server	18:35
nid0	it sortof does and doesnt	18:36
josephnexus	(IMAP isn't an apple product... :-P)	18:36
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josephnexus	I want to use IMAP with my IPad :-P	18:36
josephnexus	jk	18:36
noobmonk3y	nokiamessaging wokrs well for me with imap :D	18:36
josephnexus	bleh.. the "i" this and "i" that bugs me	18:36
josephnexus	:-P	18:36
nid0	itll allow offline viewing of messages that you've actually synced	18:36
noobmonk3y	using yahoo though	18:36
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josephnexus	what is nokiamessaging?	18:36
nid0	but by default the mail client will only download headers when syncing, itll only fetch the actual message when you view it	18:36
nid0	and that message will then be available offline	18:36
josephnexus	nid0, so I can't do a "select all" -> "sync all" type of action?	18:37
andre__	josephnexus, an email push service	18:37
nid0	theres no way that I can find to alter the client to sync full messages rather than just headers	18:37
josephnexus	:-(	18:37
josephnexus	is there a bug of feature request open for it on the maemo site?	18:37
josephnexus	that seems kind of essential to me	18:37
josephnexus	:-P	18:37
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nid0	there are various other mail clients in the works though afaik, the built in mail client is pretty shockingly bad as it is	18:38
nid0	and never know, 1.2 might make it a bit less terribad	18:38
noobmonk3y	nokia messaging =http://email.nokia.com/account/home.action	18:38
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noobmonk3y	It allows me to push my yahoo / imap mail to my phone easily - along with other accounts	18:38
josephnexus	i don't like the idea of handing my creds out to another company	18:38
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noobmonk3y	credit cards?	18:40
noobmonk3y	its free lol	18:40
nid0	on the subject of being insecure about your login details though	18:40
josephnexus	credentials for email	18:40
noobmonk3y	hmmm - true can't say i trust nokia hugely - but does work fine for me	18:40
nid0	it's worth noting that in either case your imap login details are going to be stored 1) by nokia messaging or 2) on your nokia device.	18:40
josephnexus	yeah... but I can take a hammer to my nokia device	18:40
noobmonk3y	lol ;) - not if it is stolen ;)	18:41
josephnexus	i can't take a hammer to the nokia messaging service	18:41
josephnexus	:-P	18:41
nid0	not if you lose it, pinching nokia messaging's servers is a damn sight harder	18:41
josephnexus	you know what I mean though	18:41
noobmonk3y	and lol - you could if you took a jcb to the nokia server building	18:41
josephnexus	lol	18:41
noobmonk3y	the hammer might then be a bit irrelevant	18:41
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nid0	the point I was making though is that if it comes down to not trusting nokia you're pretty screwed either way as you have to give your password either to their service or their device, but out of the two of them i'd imagine their messaging service is a damn sight more secure	18:42
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josephnexus	depends on perspective	18:43
josephnexus	i'll be rigging a thermite pack to my phone!	18:43
josephnexus	woohoo!	18:43
josephnexus	:-P	18:43
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noobmonk3y	:D	18:43
josephnexus	jk	18:43
josephnexus	i know what you mean	18:43
noobmonk3y	i'll stick with NM for now, as it works :D	18:43
josephnexus	i'm just trying to work out the best strategy so that i can have access to my mail on my workstation	18:43
josephnexus	laptop	18:43
josephnexus	and my new mobile device	18:43
nid0	just adding the account via imap will work, but youll only have offline viewing of messages you've previously viewed	18:44
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noobmonk3y	back laters alls :D	18:47
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josephnexus	nid0... i might have to spend a night reading and organizing things then	18:49
josephnexus	:-P	18:49
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josephnexus	nid0: does the mail client support occasionally checking for new messages?	18:49
josephnexus	and running in the background?	18:49
josephnexus	or do I need to use nokiamessaging for that?	18:49
nid0	you can set automatic update intervals of between 5 minutes and 2 hours	18:50
nid0	and can specify whether to only update when connected to wifi, or do it all the time	18:50
josephnexus	ok	18:50
josephnexus	excellent	18:50
josephnexus	at least we've got that then	18:50
josephnexus	:-p	18:50
josephnexus	does the unread/read status update well via IMAP?	18:51
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josephnexus	or am I going to be showing 90k unread messages when I do my first sync?	18:51
DocScrutinizer51	josephnexus: use pop3 with "don't delete msgs on server". poll interval can be configured on almost every mail client	18:52
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josephnexus	yes, but that doesn't resolve syncing and folder issues	18:54
josephnexus	these messages will be read across 3 devices	18:54
josephnexus	using pop3 would be exceptionally painful	18:54
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DocScrutinizer51	uhuh	18:55
nid0	you're not going to get unread messages when syncing via imap	18:55
nid0	modest's imap implementation is pretty wank, but it does sync read statuses properly like it should	18:56
DocScrutinizer51	wait till you get to learn how painfull IMAP is with a wacky connectivity	18:56
josephnexus	that's why I was hoping to offline sync most of my message	18:56
josephnexus	err... messages	18:56
nid0	though, it wont show deleted messages - again I cant find how to alter the behaviour, but it just doesnt show deleted messages, with no apparent way to display them or purge them from the device	18:56
josephnexus	nid0: wouldn't we expect some sort of autopurge?	18:57
josephnexus	or am I going to be losing space over time?	18:57
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nid0	essentially there's no way to actually fully delete messages from the device	18:58
nid0	when you delete a message itll get deleted, but theres then no way to purge it without doing so from a proper email client	18:58
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josephnexus	ah, you are referring to imap issues	18:59
josephnexus	ok	18:59
josephnexus	that's fine	18:59
josephnexus	my workstation clients will auto-purge on every close	18:59
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josephnexus	so if the message lingers until I get home, that should be fine	18:59
DocScrutinizer51	omg	18:59
josephnexus	no more than 30-40 messages	18:59
josephnexus	???	19:00
* DocScrutinizer51 suggests webmailer		19:00
nid0	just having a proper mail client on the device would be quite nice tbh :<	19:00
josephnexus	isn't there some work regarding a port of thunderbird?	19:00
nid0	you could probably install the full desktop tb using easydebian	19:01
nid0	that'd undoubtedly be impossible to use properly tho	19:02
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nid0	there is also a functioning version of the Claws client in extras-devel, it isnt hildonized though but apparently does work	19:03
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* josephnexus has never used claws		19:03
josephnexus	what's the address for the current bugtracker?	19:03
josephnexus	for maemo?	19:04
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josephnexus	i'd like to know where to file bug reports and such	19:04
nid0	https://bugs.maemo.org/	19:04
josephnexus	looks like a bunch of bugs... but nothing super critical	19:06
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lardman	cu later chaps	19:06
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josephnexus	how often does nokia push updates out?	19:07
josephnexus	fairly often?	19:07
nid0	there've been 2 minor and 1 major firmware updates since release	19:07
nid0	the next major update's expected soon	19:07
josephnexus	ok	19:07
josephnexus	are these closed as they are fixed, or when updates are released for them?	19:07
josephnexus	in other words, can we see what is scheduled to be pushed out because it is already fixed?	19:08
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nid0	theyre marked as fixed as soon as theyre fixed on internal builds	19:09
nid0	so you can see whats getting fixed in terms of bugs in the upcoming releases	19:09
josephnexus	ok	19:10
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josephnexus	same with enhancements too I assume?	19:10
nid0	with minor enhancements that're filed as bugs, yes	19:11
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: hmm. The MMC pins can all be switched to GPIO.	19:16
josephnexus	also, when maemo6 or meego is released, will it be available for the n900?	19:17
DocScrutinizer51	hmm. yes. So...?	19:17
DocScrutinizer51	SpeedEvil: compass, or what ?	19:17
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josephnexus	A lot of these issues are being marked as wontfix, as in... wait for maemo6	19:21
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: whatever.	19:22
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: just found it interesting.	19:22
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nid0	josephnexus most wontfix's that i've found tend to be niggly enhancement requests rather than actual bugs as such	19:23
josephnexus	yeah	19:23
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hrw	but remember that FIXED does not mean that you will get it in next firmware update	19:24
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josephnexus	what does it mean then hrw?	19:24
SpeedEvil	fixed means it's fixed in an internal version.	19:25
SpeedEvil	This doesn't mean that it'll ship at any PR	19:25
hrw	josephnexus: it means 'we fixed it internally'	19:25
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josephnexus	hmm... you'd think they want to push updates out to people	19:27
hrw	josephnexus: maemo bugzilla has a bit wrong resolution names. It lacks 'MAYBE_WILL_BE_FIXED_IN_NEXT_OS_ON_OTHER_DEVICE', 'MOVED_TO_BRAINSTORM' (which equals to WONTFIX_BY_NOKIA) etc	19:27
josephnexus	that's one of the big advantages of maemo	19:27
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josephnexus	yeah	19:27
hrw	josephnexus: if you change 'they' by 'community developers' then you are right	19:27
Mece	asdf	19:27
josephnexus	and nokia doesn't want to?	19:27
hrw	josephnexus: but if 'they' you mean 'nokia' then you are not right	19:28
josephnexus	that's why i'm buying this was to support a company that tries to support the community	19:28
nid0	nokia seems to be happier to stick with old-style release schedules of a small number of big firmware updates occasionally	19:28
hrw	josephnexus: officially nokia does not announce any firmware releases and dates	19:28
josephnexus	ok	19:29
hrw	josephnexus: they told that PR1.2 will be released but it can be november 2010 or tomorrow	19:29
josephnexus	ok	19:29
josephnexus	i see	19:29
SpeedEvil	hrw: also 'You fix it then'	19:29
josephnexus	so they are reserved about dates, but are generally good about updates?	19:29
josephnexus	i'm trying to get a feel for what to expect	19:29
josephnexus	and find out how I can be of help	19:29
hrw	unofficially there were rumours from nokia people about few updates after PR1.2 but that was from devs not managers	19:29
hrw	SpeedEvil: especially on closed stuff?	19:30
* Mece was going to ask something but managed to forget it before he managed to nickserv identify himself.		19:31
Mece	add ftl.	19:31
hrw	josephnexus: expect? I do not expect anything from nokia when it comes to fw updates.	19:31
hrw	josephnexus: I just assume that their software will not get bugs fixed	19:31
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josephnexus	that sounds sad :-(	19:34
luke-jr	josephnexus: Nokia is good at marketting, even indirectly somehow	19:36
josephnexus	what do you mean luke-jr?	19:36
luke-jr	josephnexus: in my case, I know that I didn't get what I thought I was paying for. I know I'm not alone.	19:36
luke-jr	[11:28:09] <josephnexus> that's why i'm buying this was to support a company that tries to support the community	19:37
luke-jr	somehow we get the impression that the company cares about the community, or that the device can be used with free software, etc	19:37
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luke-jr	when in reality, it's just a proprietary OS that exploits free software for the most part	19:38
josephnexus	hmm	19:38
josephnexus	that's sad	19:38
josephnexus	can I load my own OS onto this	19:38
josephnexus	or android or the like?	19:38
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Mece	josephnexus, not everyone share luke-jr's pessimistic view though ;)	19:41
SpeedEvil	~mer	19:41
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SpeedEvil	!mer	19:41
infobot	well, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer	19:41
luke-jr	josephnexus: not exactly.	19:41
Mece	SpeedEvil, ftw	19:41
hrw	SpeedEvil: even Mer is using maemo components to work	19:41
SpeedEvil	mer sort-of-is an OS at the moment	19:41
SpeedEvil	and yes	19:41
luke-jr	josephnexus: you can load another OS, but you need to retain parts of Maemo to actually use it	19:41
SpeedEvil	there are currently nokia binaries used ATM	19:41
SpeedEvil	some of these can be removed.	19:41
SpeedEvil	If you reverse engineer the protocol - probably fairly easily.	19:41
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SpeedEvil	Some are lots harder.	19:42
hrw	in 2040 when no one will remember what 770/n8x0/n900 were you will still have to use binary blobs	19:42
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: it's not merely protocol that needs to be reverse engineered	19:42
luke-jr	also algorithms	19:42
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SpeedEvil	hrw: you're perhaps being optimistic.	19:42
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zash	How does tv out work on n900? Could you use it like a "real" external screen	19:43
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SpeedEvil	zash: yes.	19:43
SpeedEvil	zash: I think lcuk was playing with this.	19:43
hrw\|gone	SpeedEvil: I am strange because I knew how closed n900 os is and I bought n900 anyway	19:43
Mece	zash, by default it only mirrors though.	19:43
hrw\|gone	SpeedEvil: anyway by DDP so just 250€ not 600€	19:44
hrw\|gone	bye for real	19:44
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josephnexus	well.. here's hoping it's a smartphone that I can stand	19:44
josephnexus	:-P	19:44
zash	SpeedEvil: like, have a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and use it like a desktop	19:45
SpeedEvil	You can't.	19:45
SpeedEvil	josephnexus: The stand really sucks.	19:45
SpeedEvil	:)	19:45
josephnexus	:-P	19:45
josephnexus	let me rephrease	19:45
marmoute	8any way to chance the color in xterm (not the two main, the colorS)	19:45
dazo	hrw\|gone: even despite how closed n900 os is ... it's still far more open experience than with any other mobile devices on the marked .... and I don't count OpenMoko right now	19:45
josephnexus	here's hoping it's a smartphone that I can tolerate and use productively	19:45
Mece	josephnexus, it feels like a linux box more than a smart phone though.	19:45
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SpeedEvil	It's the most open mass market phone.	19:45
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SpeedEvil	There are other more open non mass market phones.	19:45
josephnexus	Mece: that's ok, i've got a linux box i'm using right now	19:45
josephnexus	:-P	19:46
SpeedEvil	But...	19:46
josephnexus	as long as it works well, i'll be happy	19:46
SpeedEvil	josephnexus: My main complaint with the n900 so far is that they only put one stylus in the box.	19:46
Mece	josephnexus, that entirely depends on what you use it for.	19:47
josephnexus	email, web, calling	19:47
josephnexus	i know web is covered well	19:47
SpeedEvil	I personally use it lots with fbreader to read books, and surf when I'm in bed.	19:47
josephnexus	and nokia tends to do calling quite well	19:47
josephnexus	the email is my biggest concern	19:47
Mece	SpeedEvil, I forgot my stylus in my beard once. took hours before I found it...	19:47
SpeedEvil	Mece: yeah - I've done that too	19:47
josephnexus	Mece: epic beard man!	19:47
josephnexus	:-P	19:47
nid0	simple solution, remove the horrid furry animal growing on your face	19:48
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josephnexus	or... for those of us that like the horror movies... picture this...	19:48
josephnexus	epic beard woman!	19:48
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* josephnexus shudders out of fear and disdain...		19:48
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SpeedEvil	If you think of it, most catgirls have beards.	19:48
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Mece	josephnexus, unfortunately the email client isn't very good. it works for me though.	19:49
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josephnexus	is it something that is recieving attention?	19:49
SpeedEvil	the email client is open-source - so in principle...	19:49
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josephnexus	hopefully I can help w/ it then	19:51
josephnexus	:-P	19:51
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SpeedEvil	you can also use thunderbird (well, icedove) easily	19:53
SpeedEvil	moderately easily.	19:53
SpeedEvil	(debian chroot thingy, ...)	19:53
josephnexus	lol	19:53
josephnexus	hmm... chroot isn't all that easily	19:53
SpeedEvil	though that's probably not sane, as it's likley to be almost unusably slow	19:53
josephnexus	:-P	19:53
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josephnexus	yeah	19:54
Mece	it's very easy in this case. hence the name. easy chroot.	19:54
josephnexus	is there a way to backup everything from the phone?	19:54
josephnexus	in case it gets run over by a tank?	19:54
josephnexus	keep in mind, windows isn't an option for me	19:55
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SpeedEvil	s/could be/is/	19:57
* SpeedEvil just tried it.		19:57
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KnightStalker	Hello1	19:57
KnightStalker	!*	19:57
SpeedEvil	josephnexus: I rsync ~ to my laptop	19:57
SpeedEvil	josephnexus: and rsync my laptop back to the mmc.	19:57
Mece	josephnexus, how about scp -r / username@server:/backup/ :D	19:57
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josephnexus	yes, but is the data accessible on the desktop?	19:58
josephnexus	like if my phone is runover by a tank, can I read the data from my phone that i had previously copied?	19:58
Mece	why wouldn't it be?	19:58
KnightStalker	I have a weird issue with my maemo OS(nokia n900)I tried to install Easy Debian,I downloaded the installer from the application manager and installed it,then it told me that I need to download a big image file,I tried to download it 5 times from my mobile and one time from my comp,but when it completely downloads it says that the file is corrupted but the size seems correct...	19:59
KnightStalker	any one knows how to fix this weird issue?	19:59
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josephnexus	Mece: i mean read and use... like does it use mbox for e-mail storage and such	20:01
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Mece	josephnexus, there are some syncing stuff people use. I don't, so I don't know. There's a thread about syncing to linux distros on tmo.	20:03
josephnexus	ok	20:03
josephnexus	well... a lot of my questions shall be answered tomorrow noonish when the phone arrives	20:03
josephnexus	:-D	20:03
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josephnexus	i appreciate everyone's patience	20:04
josephnexus	and helping to answer my questions...	20:04
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Mece	josephnexus, np	20:05
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josephnexus	i think i'll be happy with it	20:05
josephnexus	how's the calendar on it?	20:05
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Mece	josephnexus, I like it. People who like something else whine.	20:07
Mece	like with everything on the phone.	20:07
SpeedEvil	josephnexus: there are sucky aspects.	20:08
SpeedEvil	josephnexus: For example if you want to set an appointment for next wednesday, you click new event, and are presented with a date picker that doesn't give you days	20:08
* Arif_ blinks		20:08
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Arif_	someone who doesn't complain about the N900? DATS IMPOSIBALL	20:09
SpeedEvil	So, you have to remember todays date, and then work out it's now friday, and next wednesday is going to be in 4 days	20:09
* KnightStalker loves N900 <3		20:10
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SpeedEvil	I have very few complaints about the hardware.	20:10
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Arif_	me too	20:11
Arif_	=P	20:11
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josephnexus	speedevil, is the date picker at least arranged like a calendar?	20:12
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josephnexus	nm	20:13
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josephnexus	i'm consulint youtube	20:13
josephnexus	:-p	20:13
SpeedEvil	josephnexus: no. It's a scrolly picker that lets you select day/mon/year independantly.	20:14
josephnexus	arg	20:14
josephnexus	that's annoying...	20:14
SpeedEvil	And while it's lovely and kinetic - it fundamentally has logical problems displaying which day it is	20:14
SpeedEvil	If you set month and then year first, in principle, it could then show days along the date picker, but it doesn't	20:14
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josephnexus	at least it tells you after the date is picked	20:16
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josephnexus	is the calendar app open?	20:18
josephnexus	as in, can I help with improving that?	20:18
josephnexus	and maybe implementing what you had described?	20:18
josephnexus	or is it using a system wide date picker that we can't improve?	20:18
SpeedEvil	No.	20:18
SpeedEvil	yes	20:18
josephnexus	hmm... has a request been made to nokia to improve it?	20:19
josephnexus	or have a toggle between fancy slider and calendar?	20:19
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josephnexus	it's going to be annoying when i'm told I have a meeting the first wednesday of each month	20:23
josephnexus	:-P	20:23
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DocScrutinizer	[2010-03-09 19:09:25] <SpeedEvil> So, you have to remember todays date, ---- simple: first jump to the date in calender view, then click "new appointment"	20:24
SpeedEvil	yes, I know.	20:25
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DocScrutinizer	picking time is a PITA	20:25
SpeedEvil	But if I'm in the events list - ...	20:25
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DocScrutinizer	braindead scrolling lists :-(	20:25
josephnexus	well... hopefully I can become a good community member and help polish this up a bit	20:26
DocScrutinizer	also there's no "jump to next appointment" that I knew of	20:26
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SpeedEvil	The date picker, calendar, and events thing are all closed	20:26
DocScrutinizer	that's actually a real lack of functionality	20:27
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DocScrutinizer	not to mention advanced comodities like "search for events containing >xxx<, in field >yyy<"	20:29
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hrw	re	20:31
hrw	basically pim features are missing	20:32
josephnexus	if nokia wants to keep it closed, then we can push them to fix it	20:32
hrw	contacts are great but calendar/notes/todos are disaster	20:32
josephnexus	hrw: more accurately, it looks like basic pim is there, but anything beyond basic is in need of polish	20:32
hrw	josephnexus: and one thing: forget about global search functionality - there is no such thing	20:32
hrw	josephnexus: basic pim was in palmos - nokia does not get even that	20:32
josephnexus	yeah	20:32
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hrw	josephnexus: my opinion is that designer which had to design pim for maemo5 never saw phone/pda other then nokia 5110	20:34
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ShadowJK	would be more interesting to know what the spec was	20:35
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ShadowJK	if the goal was to make it as functional as a Nokia 1610 or what :)	20:36
hrw	ShadowJK: without signing few ndas and giving kidneys for nokia you will not get it	20:36
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ShadowJK	lol	20:37
josephnexus	yeah	20:38
josephnexus	it doesn't seem like the n900 is fundamentally bad	20:38
josephnexus	just appears like it was rushed to market	20:38
VDVsx	I heard that they need livers as well :)	20:38
ShadowJK	well, you'd expect pim on communicator class devices	20:39
ShadowJK	though it has been weak since s80 died..	20:39
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* VDVsx saw some calendar part at git yesterday		20:39
* VDVsx checks		20:39
Mece	oo	20:39
hcarrega	arg	20:39
hcarrega	hi VDVsx	20:39
Mece	grr argh?	20:40
Mece	mutant enemy	20:40
josephnexus	rawr!	20:40
VDVsx	hcarrega, hey	20:40
josephnexus	must be what follows next	20:40
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Mece	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf69j1U---4	20:42
josephnexus	that's epic	20:43
josephnexus	http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/improving_the_calendar_in_n900/	20:43
josephnexus	is this where new stuff is decided?	20:43
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josephnexus	or at least put in for consideration?	20:43
Arif_	that's where people give ideas and get ignored	20:43
Mece	not really.	20:43
Arif_	:p	20:43
luke-jr	josephnexus: stuff is decided by the entity that does it	20:43
josephnexus	and how do I get a username/password so that I can vote?	20:43
Mece	yes i suppose	20:43
VDVsx	calendar backend is open at least: http://maemo.gitorious.org/calendar-backend	20:44
Mece	just register	20:44
luke-jr	josephnexus: for example, Nokia decided to announce a few weeks ago that Maemo is to be discontinued	20:44
luke-jr	and replaced with "MeeGo"	20:44
josephnexus	yes, in favor of meego	20:44
SpeedEvil	The exact roadmap is somewhat unclear.	20:44
DocScrutinizer	hrw: contacts are WHAT?	20:44
josephnexus	they share similar roots, so i don't see too much of a problem there	20:44
* Stskeeps takes a deep breath and reads through the mail		20:45
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Arif_	josephnexus, untill Nokia doesn't release Moogo for the N900 :D	20:46
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josephnexus	which would suck	20:46
Stskeeps	Arif_: it's already going to be a reference device? ;;	20:46
Stskeeps	:P	20:46
Arif_	;p	20:46
josephnexus	and make me not purchase any nokia device again	20:47
Arif_	oh come on	20:47
josephnexus	i vote with my wallet	20:47
josephnexus	:-P	20:47
ShadowJK	yawn	20:47
Arif_	s60 is the same either	20:47
Arif_	-either +too	20:47
Arif_	you don't get FP updates on older phoens	20:47
VDVsx	Arif_, moogo would be a awesome name ;)	20:47
josephnexus	moogoo would be better	20:47
josephnexus	:-p	20:47
Arif_	:D	20:47
Mece	sure would	20:47
Arif_	Lets all call it Moogo	20:47
Stskeeps	moomin	20:48
Stskeeps	:P	20:48
Arif_	maybe they'll change the name xD	20:48
VDVsx	mongo :D	20:48
* VDVsx hides		20:49
KnightStalker	mango!	20:49
KnightStalker	:P	20:49
Stskeeps	VDVsx: meegro?	20:49
Stskeeps	(one step from lawsuit..)	20:49
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jaska	mummo	20:49
DocScrutinizer	(contacts) what a crap is that? you can't even search for anything except main name content	20:49
josephnexus	weegro?	20:49
VDVsx	Stskeeps, from whom ? :D	20:49
josephnexus	:-P	20:49
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josephnexus	nokia doesn't know how to target enterprise though...	20:51
josephnexus	the lack of a roadmap makes enterprise nervous	20:51
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ShadowJK	i guess s60 has little roadmap	20:51
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ShadowJK	but still every company exec has E90 even if he only uses it for making calls	20:52
ShadowJK	status symbol ;p	20:52
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DocScrutinizer	(contacts) ever tried to create a contact with photo on the fly? ("please, have another beer on me, I need to edit your contact details and attach a photo. Will only take 15 minutes")	20:53
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Mece	DocScrutinizer, contact photos come automagically from im's. You're doing it wrong.	20:55
* DocScrutinizer fails completely to understand anyone stating "contacts are great"		20:55
Mece	contacts are great.	20:55
DocScrutinizer	Mece: huh??	20:55
* ShadowJK has never done any of the things you try to do :P		20:55
ShadowJK	but my contacts management has mostly consisted of a sms inbox full of replies from directory services	20:56
ShadowJK	n900's conversations view makes that much more efficient :D	20:56
DocScrutinizer	Mece: maybe your private contacts are great. Nokia contact app definitely is crap	20:56
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Mece	DocScrutinizer, I maintain that you're doing it wrong.	20:58
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Mece	i think it works very well.	20:58
VDVsx	I like the contacts app, but the search complain is valid, that sucks a bit	20:59
DocScrutinizer	I got a GSM, 2 VoIP, and a SIM "method". Some of my contacts have 5 numbers. Imagine what the contact screen looks like?? :-(	20:59
Mece	which search?	20:59
DocScrutinizer	4 methods * 5 numbers = 20 buttons - eeeeek	20:59
Mece	DocScrutinizer, what ahould it look like then?	21:00
aep	for once, not duplicate stuff :P	21:00
VDVsx	well, that's normal I guess	21:00
VDVsx	they could write duplicate routine when importing contacts	21:01
VDVsx	hey this guy has the same number/name want to merge ?	21:01
Mece	I don't have any duplicates	21:01
Mece	that would be nice.	21:01
aep	nah i mean "sms" and "call"	21:01
DocScrutinizer	VDVsx: huh? seems you missed my point	21:01
aep	or "chat via jabber" and "make a jabber call"	21:01
VDVsx	DocScrutinizer, probably	21:02
VDVsx	I don't understand the complain about the 20 buttons :)	21:02
Mece	DocScrutinizer, ok but what should it look like?	21:02
aep	if you have 8 different protocols enabled, it fills up the space rather quick	21:02
* Arif_ complains about the virtual keyboard some more		21:02
aep	why are you even using that? :D	21:02
Mece	aep, quite. so if we limit the protocols to 1, it would be better?	21:02
aep	no..	21:02
Arif_	I have a hard time using the hardware keyboard	21:03
Mece	Arif_, mine came with a physical keyboard :)	21:03
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Arif_	I want T9	21:03
Arif_	;D	21:03
DocScrutinizer	WTF??!	21:03
aep	umm seriously?	21:03
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Arif_	yes	21:04
Arif_	=P	21:04
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DocScrutinizer	Arif_: get a phone then!	21:04
Arif_	no	21:04
aep	actually the problem i have is more due to jabber transports. i have 24 jabber buttons	21:04
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Mece	ouch	21:05
Arif_	my only choice is WM after this I guess	21:05
Arif_	and I REALLY don't want that :P	21:05
aep	and none of them supports voice, so its 12 buttons waisted	21:05
sanjoyd	Is there an open-source maemo dc++ client that runs over bluetooth connections?	21:06
VDVsx	t9 works well on my 5800 when in portrait (touch-screen only)	21:06
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Arif_	N900 needs portrait :P	21:07
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DocScrutinizer	aep: (and Mece though I guess it's useless): obviously for contacts with multiple numbers you need a second-level menu that pops up when hitting one of the numbers of a contact, and you select transport from that 2nd level menu	21:08
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ShadowJK	sanjoyd: are you confusing things here?	21:09
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sanjoyd	ShadowJK: Perhaps. I'll be a little more clear.	21:09
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Mece	DocScrutinizer, I suppose that would be an option.	21:09
VDVsx	why use dc++ when you have obex	21:09
VDVsx	and bluetooth is slow to transfer data	21:10
sanjoyd	ShadowJK: I need sharing + searching functionality on an ad-hoc network of devices.	21:10
sanjoyd	ShadowJK: Connected through bluetooth.	21:10
ShadowJK	ah, that does not exist	21:10
Arif_	wait for BT3.0	21:10
Arif_	:>	21:10
Mece	for me ordering the different options would be much better improvement	21:10
sanjoyd	Any idea if it is possible to run TCP/IP over bluetooth?	21:11
ShadowJK	yes, it is	21:11
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DocScrutinizer	sanjoyd: I guess that's called PAN	21:11
ShadowJK	it's called pan	21:11
sanjoyd	ShadowJK: DocScrutinizer: Thanks! I'll have a look.	21:11
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ShadowJK	I guess the advantage of doing it over bluetooth instead of wlan would be power saving...	21:12
arachnist	i used to tether internets on my old se k800i from my pc (yes, not the other way round), back when i didn't have a NIT nor a laptop	21:13
Mece	arachnist, :D	21:14
DocScrutinizer	(contacts) when in portrait mode (real phone-only), you can scroll till your thumb hurts, due to missing letter index to skip to a region of the contacts list [- obviously doesn't apply if you got <20 contacts]	21:15
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hrw	re	21:15
hrw	DocScrutinizer: ok, 'great' is wrong word	21:15
ShadowJK	missing/broken scrollbars in maemo5 :(	21:16
arachnist	i wish more of the phone ui would be usable in portrait	21:16
arachnist	*mode	21:16
hrw	DocScrutinizer: but I think that contacts were not written by @nokia.com guys - quality is higher then rest of nokia things. and yes, it lacks lot of things, has lot of other ones broken in nasty ways but it is nice tool	21:16
GAN900	I don't get the need for portrait	21:17
hrw	GAN900: I do	21:17
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hrw	GAN900: n900 is my first landscape phone	21:18
ShadowJK	n900 is my fourth landscape phone :)	21:18
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: when I do a phonecall, portrait is a natural thing for a candybar formfactor phone	21:18
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer, sure, but for the whole OS?	21:18
DocScrutinizer	nah, NEVER	21:18
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hrw	GAN900: what I want in portrait: im (mostly view), images, contacts, rest of pim, mediaplayer	21:20
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DocScrutinizer	well, im, contacts is arguably part of dialer and thus needs to support portrait	21:21
DocScrutinizer	images needs a "portrait mode" anyway by rotating the image	21:22
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DocScrutinizer	mediaplayer and "rest of pim" is debatable	21:23
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ShadowJK	btw, has anyone looked at the n900 speakerholes with microscope before?	21:23
ShadowJK	it's scary	21:23
ShadowJK	atleast on mine	21:23
DocScrutinizer	lol	21:23
DocScrutinizer	why?	21:23
hrw	ok, I go off for rest of day now	21:23
DocScrutinizer	lots of bugs? ;-P	21:23
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, yeah it looks like a nest of evil	21:24
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VDVsx	nice -> "qt mobility will be included in pr1.3"	21:24
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Stskeeps	VDVsx: source	21:24
Stskeeps	?	21:24
ShadowJK	I should try take a pic and post it in the hypocondriac "how do I disinfect my n900 without dissolving the plastic please help" thread	21:24
VDVsx	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=561617&postcount=4	21:25
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ShadowJK	(i forget exact name but there was thread like that)	21:25
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jaska	infested terran hq?	21:25
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DocScrutinizer	can't spot any suspicious sight	21:25
Mece	damn. my adsl modem is dying...	21:26
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ShadowJK	and no hawt kerrigan	21:26
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ShadowJK	was pretty interesting, n800 speaker holes were pretty clear	21:27
Mece	DocScrutinizer, i guess my messages didn't come true. anyway, I stand corrected. The issues you mentioned are proper issues. Not just issues I have issue with.	21:27
ShadowJK	n810 partially clogged near entrance by what looked like wax-like substance (grease from fingers?)	21:27
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ShadowJK	n900 holes filled deeper in with scary stuff	21:28
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: that "scary stuff" is micro fibre fabric	21:29
ShadowJK	that'd make sense	21:29
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ShadowJK	also something in all 3 that looked like a flat surface with rectangular indentations	21:30
ShadowJK	at the bottom of the holes, I think	21:31
* GAN900 womder why this thing seems incapable of roaming multiple APs with the same SSID nicely.		21:31
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ShadowJK	GAN900, oh I was thinking of changing ssid on my two APs to match	21:32
* Noobmonk3y waves		21:32
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ShadowJK	since n900 doesn't seem to automatically switch between them as nicely as n810 does	21:32
GAN900	ShadowJK, I have 4 APs covering the lot and I get aolsystemsgs all the time.	21:32
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GAN900	I dunno how they managed a regression	21:33
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: on N810 I see same microfibre grid on bottom of holes (plus lots of dust above that which collected over the years :-P)	21:33
GAN900	It even lists them separately in the connection dialog.	21:33
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ShadowJK	I'm guessing n900 tries too hard before it gives up and switches ap	21:34
ShadowJK	I've got 2 APs to cover the house	21:34
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DocScrutinizer	switching APs with identical SSID is a bit tricky. At very least they need same credentials	21:36
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Arif_	I got eduroam working today	21:37
Arif_	=D	21:37
DocScrutinizer	but actually NM doesn't know how to handle that	21:37
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reggna	Arif_: What uni?	21:37
Arif_	HvA	21:37
DocScrutinizer	(on desktop)	21:37
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, oh I just naively thought having same ssid would make n900 think it's okay to switch to whatever is strongest :)	21:38
Arif_	some lame one in Dutchland :p	21:38
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* ShadowJK has issues making NM do stuff right on ethernet even...		21:40
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: nah, either you want client to do real roaming between APs forming a network with shared DHCP and authentication infra. Or you want client to hop between completely distinct AP entities, in which case a shared SSID is more like begging for trouble than anything else	21:42
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ShadowJK	well dhcp is shared, and wpa key is identical on both	21:43
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: I'm not a 802.11 expert, but I'd think the APs need to support roaming	21:44
DocScrutinizer	I.E they need to talk to each other	21:44
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ShadowJK	one is a 20E chinese branded ap that speaks some inter-ap protocol for the enterprisey roaming, I presume... other is a 100E "Linksys by Cisco" router+ap that knows of no such thing as roaming	21:44
ShadowJK	ah	21:44
ShadowJK	Clearly I should buy more chinese "crap" then :))	21:45
ShadowJK	still, N810 works seamlessly with it	21:46
ShadowJK	n900 doesn't quite realize when it's out of range for useful communication	21:46
DocScrutinizer	:-(	21:46
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DocScrutinizer	file a bug	21:46
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FIQ	hm	22:03
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FIQ	seems like everything related to KDE is failing @ keyboard focus @ easy debian	22:04
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FIQ	is that KDE's or Debian's fault?	22:04
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer, by the way, I'm looking at Insteon stuff for HA right now.	22:05
ds3	is there a site with photos of all 6 sides of the N900?	22:06
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: err, you lost me. insteon? HA?	22:07
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer, sorry, related to the home automation question I asked the other week.	22:07
DocScrutinizer	aah	22:07
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GAN900	ds3, maybe Nokia's press photos?	22:07
GAN900	ds3, I may be able to answer specific questions, though.	22:08
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ds3	GAN900: I am trying to see if there is a good place to grip it to mount it in a vehicle	22:08
ds3	I see stuff all over the top (expected) and left and right sides but donno if the bottom is clear or if there are mounting zones designed in	22:09
nid0	bottom's empty	22:09
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nid0	top has gaps between the volume rocker on left and power in mid, and power in mid and camera shutter on right	22:10
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ds3	so a triangle shaped grip should work?	22:10
nid0	the gaps are plenty big enough for a car mount grip positioned right	22:10
GAN900	Yeah	22:10
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ds3	are there gaps between the LCD half and the keyboard to bite into?	22:10
nid0	theres a very very very thin gap you could bite something very thin into	22:11
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nid0	some cases for the device have a sheet of clear plastic that goes over the keyboard like that between the keyboard and the screen when its closed	22:11
ds3	foil thin? business card thin or ?	22:11
nid0	you could just about get a thin business card in there, not a fancy embossed one though!	22:12
ds3	'k	22:12
ds3	so I can probally make a hook with an aluminum tip to grab it	22:12
ds3	the slide out kb means I can't use my 2 rubber band grip that I have with the 800	22:13
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SpeedEvil	I have doubts that mounts that exert a splitting force on the case with wedges are a great idea	22:18
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ds3	it won't be a wedge... something like business card thick sheet alum. L peice screwed onto a peice of plastic	22:20
ds3	a wedge would be bad, IMO	22:21
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nid0	dear me	22:22
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nid0	the first Bada phone's on the way	22:23
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DocScrutinizer	I'd grab the 4 corners of the kbd lower half of the phone, with 4 tetraeder like latches	22:23
nid0	no multitasking ability.	22:23
nid0	what is this, 2005?	22:23
jaska	you mean 1985	22:23
ds3	DocScrutiinizer: doesn't that run into the jacks on the side?	22:23
DocScrutinizer	if the teraeders are like 101010mm the won't obstruct anything important	22:24
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ds3	what about a rubber thing that with 4 stretchable arms and a hole at the end to grab all 4 corners?	22:26
ds3	nix that.. that'd block the camera	22:26
ds3	the pop out camera is so nice on the N800 in this regard	22:27
SpeedEvil	you can pop out the n900 camera	22:28
ds3	eh?	22:28
SpeedEvil	With the SS100 camera removal tool.	22:29
ds3	Oh	22:29
SpeedEvil	But, yes.	22:29
ds3	I thought you meant it springs out like the N800	22:29
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ds3	other then the CPU, the N900 seems downhill of the N800 :(	22:30
Arif_	downhill?	22:30
SpeedEvil	speaking personally.	22:30
ds3	yeah, i.e. inferior to	22:30
SpeedEvil	\I would not have got a n820 - with no network and similar to 900	22:31
ds3	the things I loved about the N800 are gone	22:31
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* Arif_ never saw an N800		22:31
Arif_	:D	22:31
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DocScrutinizer	N820 should be a N810 with 3G modem, not a N900 without	22:34
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Karlosos	hey guys	22:37
Arif_	hai	22:37
strcpy	any estimate for next n900 firmware update release ? maemo wiki mentioned "few weeks" but not sure how many weeks means 'few' :)	22:37
Arif_	Soon	22:38
strcpy	any details on additions?	22:38
MohammadAG	soon = in 2010, hopefully	22:38
Shapeshifter	So we have this Acer beamer in our lounge, and some idiot lost the remote control. What are the chances that I'll get irreco to steer the beamer? It's a pain standing on a chair everytime to turn it on -.-	22:38
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strcpy	doh.. I`ll be more relax relaying on wiki estiamte :p	22:39
Shapeshifter	I installed irreco with the lirc backend and apparently everything works, but the beamer of course isn't in the database or anything.	22:39
Hydroxide	strcpy: anyone who actually knows a more specific estimate than is already public is probably not allowed to share it until the appropriate communications/PR people have approved doing so	22:39
Hydroxide	strcpy: that seems to be the way they are operating for this kind of thing	22:40
strcpy	aha , thanks for commenting Hydroxide	22:40
Hydroxide	np	22:41
ShadowJK	I think it's been rumoured some QA people found problems after the "few" weeks was rumoured	22:41
madduck	what is the purpose of the up-left arrow symbol on the n900 x terminal?	22:41
Arif_	Shapeshifter, as irrecco doesn't work for me good luck with that	22:41
Arif_	:D	22:41
strcpy	hopefully dev/extra repositories are satisfying enough ,with good speed at fixing bugs through updates	22:41
madduck	it only shows up sporadically	22:42
Hydroxide	strcpy: fyi, I don't work for nokia or any other company that's inside the Maemo/MeeGo NDA world, and so I know roughly none of the inside information :)	22:42
aSIMULAtor	madduck it's to make it full screen	22:42
aSIMULAtor	it's also the icon that you see in the browser	22:43
aSIMULAtor	to make it full screen	22:43
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ShadowJK	madduck, switch between scrolling and marking text for copy	22:43
Karlosos	when i follow instructions on how to flash i go to load flasher file and it pops up with a black command screen and disappears straight away what am i doing wrong	22:43
ShadowJK	madduck, only shows up when there's scrollable content	22:43
ds3	are the posts about lack of official MMS support still accurate?	22:43
madduck	aSIMULAtor: but nothing happens if i press it but gets crossed out	22:43
aSIMULAtor	oh nm	22:43
aSIMULAtor	i'm smoking crack	22:43
madduck	ShadowJK: thx	22:43
aSIMULAtor	(not really but my answer makes it seems like i am)	22:43
ShadowJK	nah, the fullscreen icon is very similar	22:44
ShadowJK	it's arrow pointing northwest, but inside a box	22:44
strcpy	and another Q over Maemo. I've used all recommendations/scripts from maemo wiki and forums on how to free up more space for installing applications, by removing junks or sym-linking some directories	22:44
strcpy	but I wish I had a clean & easy way to instantly re-size the partition?	22:44
Hydroxide	ShadowJK: interesting, I hadn't noticed that before.	22:45
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Hydroxide	(the scroll/copy toggle icon, that is)	22:45
ShadowJK	strcpy, the partition already spans the entire device	22:45
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Hydroxide	I guess it makes sense as well by analogy to the browser's mouse mode	22:45
djkrikke	Hi guys, looks like some xvids don't have sound on the n900. The default mediaplayer plays sound but is littlebit laggy. Is this a common issue (that mplayer doesn't give sound)	22:45
madduck	ShadowJK: cool, and how does one paste	22:45
madduck	?	22:45
Hydroxide	but I so rarely have anything scrollable since I usually use screen :)	22:45
ShadowJK	madduck, menu -> paste	22:45
strcpy	so why we`re limited to ~1.5GB ??	22:45
ShadowJK	strcpy, oh that one	22:46
ShadowJK	I thought you were talking about /	22:46
strcpy	yes, THAT :) sorry for my lame explenation	22:46
ds3	nevermind, recent posts suggest that is still the cast	22:46
ds3	case	22:46
madduck	ShadowJK: no such menu item…	22:46
ShadowJK	madduck, it helps to have copied something first	22:47
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Arif_	try ctrl c and v :P	22:47
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ShadowJK	strcpy, roughly, it would have been size 0 if they could have gotten away with it (thus maximizing space for music)	22:48
ShadowJK	strcpy, but various things needs posix-compliant filesystem, like the tracker database	22:48
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: CIR range of N900 is very limited. But you might find a matching emote control def for a TV of same manufacturer	22:48
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ShadowJK	I suspect the size is just about "enough" to store the index of 32+16 gigs of music	22:48
strcpy	ShadowJK, you`re right but not all of n900 owners go for it just cus of it`s multimedia capabilities, you know... :)	22:49
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ShadowJK	I don't really remember, but it might have been just 1 gig before someone said that 80 megs is too small for apps...	22:49
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strcpy	in my case ,porting and installing some of utilities from linux to n900 quickly eat free space	22:49
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strcpy	honestly I look at n900 almost like my netbook. that maybe the reason I`m too much rude about these limitations	22:50
* SpeedEvil wants an emote control for TMO		22:50
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* Arif_ wants irrecco to work		22:51
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strcpy	I've ported many tools, and it`s close to a pocket backTrack now :)	22:51
Arif_	you can hax wifi now?	22:52
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strcpy	Arif_, not if it`s on anything but channel 6	22:52
strcpy	no problem while using usb wifi though	22:52
Arif_	why channel 6	22:52
strcpy	current firmware limits that way	22:53
strcpy	injection is not working on other channels	22:53
strcpy	I hope to see some upgrades over this, to fix the limitation	22:53
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Arif_	aw	22:54
strcpy	what really disappoint me at the moment, is lack of true bluetooth mouse/kb (based on what I've read in net, not my own experience)	22:55
Arif_	I'm just unhappy that the app I use the msot is written in 2 hours	22:55
Arif_	=D	22:55
strcpy	I've seen not a single SUCESS story on that	22:55
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strcpy	Arif_, and what`s that?	22:56
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: mh okay	22:56
Shapeshifter	Arif_: what's not working?	22:56
Arif_	get one from DX and get it working	22:56
Arif_	:P	22:56
Arif_	the media player mostly not works than works :D	22:56
Arif_	and i can't get irrecco to work	22:56
Arif_	:(	22:57
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: CIR range? as in distance to device?	22:57
Shapeshifter	Arif_: I mean, in irreco, what's the problem	22:57
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DocScrutinizer	yes	22:57
Arif_	I added the TechnoTrend S2=3200 remote and all buttons	22:57
Shapeshifter	mhh. I'd love to know why they included it anyway.	22:57
Arif_	but when I poke them nothing happens	22:57
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Shapeshifter	Arif_: and lirc or such is running?	22:58
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Shapeshifter	I mean, did they just have some IR leftover parts and thought they could stick it into the n900 as geeks love MOAR gadgets?	22:58
Arif_	how do I check :blush:	22:58
Shapeshifter	Arif_: you could run /etc/init.d/lirc restart	22:58
Shapeshifter	as root	22:58
Shapeshifter	as it seems. didn't work for me before I did that manually.	22:59
SpeedEvil	I'd love to know why they diddn't connect the IR to the CIR port of the SoC	22:59
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SpeedEvil	but...	22:59
Shapeshifter	SpeedEvil: SoC?	22:59
* Arif_ tries		22:59
SpeedEvil	System on a Chip	22:59
SpeedEvil	The CPU+shizzle.	22:59
josephnexus	for rizzle shizzle dizzle yo	23:00
Noobmonk3y	its official.... wifi is the saviour of crappy 2g areas :)	23:00
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Arif_	get a better operator!	23:01
SpeedEvil	My 2G is only 1/3 the speed of my DSL at times.	23:01
Arif_	only?	23:01
Arif_	your DSL must be slow	23:01
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Noobmonk3y	:)	23:01
ShadowJK	in terms of throughput, my 3g service is rarely slower than twice the speed of my fixed connection...	23:01
SpeedEvil	yes.	23:01
ShadowJK	sometimes 5 times as fast	23:01
Arif_	lol	23:01
ShadowJK	but the fixed connection has better latencies..	23:01
Noobmonk3y	3.5g is over double my bband speed	23:01
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: 100k/s here - 3g	23:01
Arif_	my 3G is only 1Mbit	23:02
Hoxzer	my fixed is 100Mbps :(. No, 3G is not faster	23:02
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, downloaded a podcast at 500kbytes/sec this morning on 3.5g :)	23:02
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Noobmonk3y	in the mine is bigger than yours stakes.... does a gigabit connection at work and via vpn count? tis quite sexy after about 5pm :)	23:07
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: good question	23:08
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ShadowJK	how is it connected now?	23:09
SpeedEvil	To a PWM unit.	23:10
SpeedEvil	It's odd - as the CIR port is a flexible 'UART' to do CIR signals. And the PWM thing is bitbang.	23:10
ShadowJK	is the PWM unit responsible for modulating the 38khz thing too?	23:11
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SpeedEvil	yes	23:11
Arif_	hmm	23:11
ShadowJK	ah	23:11
SpeedEvil	it's turned on and off manually	23:11
Arif_	meh	23:11
ShadowJK	CIR is slow enough	23:11
* Arif_ 'll try again on the next Moogo device		23:11
* ShadowJK once desoldered IR sensor from a a dead VCR and connected it to line-in and wrote software to decode the resulting signal when pressung stuff on the remote contorl, making it control xmms and MPlayer		23:13
ShadowJK	with modular plugins for controlling different programs and a button on the remote to switch from one program to another	23:13
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ShadowJK	... when it was done I learned of the existence of LIRC	23:13
ShadowJK	I was mildly annoyed	23:13
Arif_	you must've been bored =}	23:14
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Hydroxide	heh	23:14
ShadowJK	I had lots of spare time	23:16
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: the CIR "port" is actually a IrDA port I guess?	23:17
SpeedEvil	it's got a CIR mode too, it's quite complex	23:17
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: probably they couldn't do carier frequency tuning so easily with IrDA port? Nah, not a valid point	23:18
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SpeedEvil	I suspect someone just did it as a PWM without realising it could be done elsewise.	23:18
SpeedEvil	Or the hw engineering side hooked it to a pwm	23:18
DocScrutinizer	yup	23:18
ShadowJK	If it had been me I'd first connected it to a GPIO or a serial port and discovered it doesn't quite work, and then added PWM ;p	23:18
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: you make me remember OM nighmares on fighting uphill to exploit functions we could have gotten for free, but "we don't need that. It's not in the specs"	23:20
SpeedEvil	:/	23:20
ShadowJK	lol	23:21
DocScrutinizer	e.g. line in on hs connector	23:21
SpeedEvil	http://e2e.ti.com/blogs_/b/mobile_momentum/archive/2009/12/12/flash-10-moves-to-the-mobile-environment.aspx	23:21
SpeedEvil	hmm	23:21
SpeedEvil	flash	23:21
SpeedEvil	that would have been nice	23:21
ShadowJK	lol	23:21
ShadowJK	It says flash 9.4 on the box, so it will be 9.4!	23:21
SpeedEvil	I can see the rationale for not including anything that would boost the price - or make it more risky	23:22
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DocScrutinizer	line in is 5ct, 0 risk	23:22
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ShadowJK	Have you guys seen that guy on tmo that is modifying his N810 to add cellular?	23:24
SpeedEvil	pretty easy - if you are willing to make it bulge	23:24
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ShadowJK	or use a smaller battery :)	23:25
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: connecting clk_32k to PWM ext-clk another one, to make AUX/pwr LEDs dim/flash during suspend	23:25
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penguinbait	lcuk?	23:25
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ShadowJK	I don't remebmber if he's making it bulge or not	23:25
* Noobmonk3y blinks		23:26
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DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: or that incredible V-USB AbsMax 5.5V shit. Of course that's not for free to get at least a 7V conforming OVP. But otoh the risk reduction is well worth the 50ct	23:29
SpeedEvil	Perhaps, yes.	23:29
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ShadowJK	wow, that gprs module he bought is the size of an SD card	23:31
ShadowJK	mini sd	23:31
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DocScrutinizer	nah!	23:32
ShadowJK	he removed the minisd slot and put the gprs module there, and is pondering how to fit in the SIM	23:32
DocScrutinizer	maybe same footprint, yes	23:33
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ShadowJK	"have 1 big problem : space for sim . Probably i will remove all plastic of sim and solder directly. "	23:33
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ShadowJK	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=527846&postcount=17	23:33
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Stskeeps	ShadowJK: he did this further down	23:33
ShadowJK	n810 with cellular modem would be awesome :(	23:34
DocScrutinizer	so the size is that of the miniSD holder	23:34
lcuk	penguinbait,	23:34
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penguinbait	hey lcuk, did you accept your nomination?	23:35
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lcuk	penguinbait, did you manage to bend reality to add some extra time into a month? i did a whole extra week of OT in the last month. unless you find a way to gain some time i am not going to be able to do anything.	23:37
DocScrutinizer	actually even the footprint is quite a bit larger than the miniSD holder. And the whole thing will be an epic fail as you can't operate the module with all the thermal vias up in the air and hoping for the best :-)	23:37
DocScrutinizer	also I wonder what he planned for GSM antenna	23:38
penguinbait	lcuk that is too bad	23:39
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lcuk	indeed penguinbait tis silly season atm :) i have raised this internally ill accept/decline running tomorrow	23:41
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, maybe he'll just get lucky not knowing what he's doing :D	23:44
* Arif_ blinks		23:45
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DocScrutinizer	well, he could solder the thermal vias to a large heat dissipating plane - if that fits in there somehow. And he could just drill a hole in the case and mount an external GSM ant stub	23:46
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