IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2010-03-08

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DocScrutinizerShapeshifter: SpeedEvil: /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp ?00:02
SpeedEvilsounds plausible00:02
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SpeedEvilIt says 44 here - which seems hot00:03
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: thanks00:03
SpeedEvilor maybe not00:04
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DocScrutinizer-40 here, which seems cold ;-)00:04
SpeedEvilI mean teh second file00:04
Shapeshifter53 here00:05
Shapeshifterbut I just downloaded and installed something while playing a game00:05
DocScrutinizer~convert 44°F to celsius00:05
infobot44°F cannot be converted to celsius: Unknown unit '°F'00:05
DocScrutinizer~convert 44° F to celsius00:05
infobot44° F cannot be converted to celsius: Unknown unit '°'00:05
DocScrutinizer~convert 44 F to celsius00:05
infobot44 F cannot be converted to celsius: Unknown unit 'celsius'00:05
ShapeshifterI doubt they use fahrenheit.00:05
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: err, second file?00:06
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: /sys/devices/platform/omap34xx_temp/temp1_input_raw00:07
SpeedEviltemp does not change if I do md5sums00:07
DocScrutinizerraw is 0 here :-/00:08
SpeedEvilraw is 44, other is 1700:08
SpeedEvil(at 5C ambient)00:08
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ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: 5C ambient??00:09
DocScrutinizerseems that's a case for reading kernel sources ;-)00:09
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: yes.00:09
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: damn, dude. Go cut down some trees!00:10
SpeedEvilI have an electric blanket, so it's OK.00:11
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b-man|n900woot! i've sucsessfully compiled a kernel (on) my N900 :D00:19
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b-man|n900it took about 4 hours though xD00:21
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jebbaah, you did it *on* the n900? Heh.  :)00:22
b-man|n900yes xD00:22
b-man|n900using a highly modified sdk rootstrap00:22
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t-tanare you insane? try Qt next00:27
b-man|n900lol sure xD00:27
b-man|n900i've done LFS on my N800 like 5 or 6 times xD00:28
SpeedEviln900 isn't that slow.00:28
t-tanor gcc 4.4. took me several hours on a 8core machine00:28
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b-man|n900LFS = Linux From Scratch00:28
* n00bmonk3y waves00:28
* b-man|n900 has also done gcc 4.400:29
tremLFS on N900 ???00:29
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b-man|n900sure xD00:29
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t-tandid your N900 melt?00:30
n00bmonk3ylcuk : still awake?00:30
b-man|n900 < all done on my previous N800 ;)00:31
lcukn00bmonk3y yup00:31
lcukhey b-man00:31
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n00bmonk3yw000p :)00:31
b-man|n900t-tan: lol no, but it does get quite warm xD00:32
b-man|n900hey lcuk :)00:32
t-tanis there Gentoo for N900?00:32
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* b-man|n900 grabs the link00:33
t-tanI don't want this expensive device to idle most of the time... :D00:33
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tremb-man|n900: and LFS works on n900 ?00:34
b-man|n900trem: it should if it's set up right00:34
* b-man|n900 shasn't tested it yet00:35
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b-man|n900t-tan: it is mainly tareted twards OpenPandora/Beagleboard, but works like a charm on N90000:36
tremand your kernel works ?00:37
* b-man|n900 is going to flash it in a bit - still need to get some stuff done00:38
t-tanb-man|n900: good luck! I hope your kernel works...00:39
b-man|n900it should :) i followed the instructions closely :)00:40
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t-tanthat's no guarantee. the N900 and Maemo5 is non-determinstic. there must be a reason for the built-in HW random nr generator00:42
kynkyfor encyrption, speeds it up, i would imagine00:44
CorsacCS are not deterministic anyway00:44
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t-tankynky: for generating keys, yes, it would make them less predictable, but speed?00:46
b-man|n900flashing the kernel and booting the device up will tell ;)00:46
t-tanoh, a coin flip experiment00:47
kynkygeneratng random numbers in software is slow00:47
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t-tankynky: nope. it only depends on the degree of pseudo-randomness00:48
t-tanb-man|n900: toss your N900. if it lands on the screen side, your kernel will break :)00:49
b-man|n900so will the screen xD00:50
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t-tancorrect. so we won't have conclusive evidence. we'd need to replicate the experiment several times. everybody on this channel should participtate00:51
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SpeedEvilWrite a coin toss app.00:59
SpeedEvilThat reports which way up it landed.00:59
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t-tanBTW, a Rock-paper-scissors with HW randgen could be nice01:01
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* b-man|n900 flashes his n900-built kernel01:07
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t-tanI hear silence...01:13
* SpeedEvil hears the gentle hum of a fishtank pump, the fan of an x60s thinkpad, and little else.01:14
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b-man|laptopit looks like i'm gonna have to wait an hour or so.. - my N900's battery is soo low that i don't think it's safe enough to flash atm :(01:24
b-man|laptopt rebooted on me and nearly went through a loop trying to charge - but it's fine now01:25
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pupniki hear not enough people buying n900s01:28
SpeedEvilBuy two!01:29
RST38hAnd breed them!01:29
b-man|laptopimagine a "by two get one free" deal for N900s :D01:30
tremnite all, sweet dreams01:30
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RST38hChilean marauders get rid of TVs and furniture!01:33
RST38h(surely they are searching for N900s)01:33
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pupnikwaco resistance killed a few batf shtheads01:34
pupnikand there were no more wacos01:34
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles isn't here?02:45
crashanddieThe world is going to end!02:45
DocScrutinizertry GAN90002:45
GAN900Oh noes!02:46
GAN900Spring break, fool!02:46
crashanddieGAN900: received the 40d :)02:46
crashanddieGAN900: lens is the 50mm prime f1.802:46
GAN900How's the condition?02:46
crashanddieGood, there's a bit of dust in the lens, but that's just because it's not sealed02:47
crashanddie(not weatherproofed) nothing i wasn't expecting02:47
crashanddiefocuses fast and accurately, will have fun with this tonight02:47
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crashanddieI'm not going to bother having it cleaned, I might as well get a new lens, they're only $80 or something02:48
GAN900The f/1.8 is really cheap02:48
GAN900I'd replace it with a 1.4 if you replace is.02:48
crashanddieyeah, the f/1.4 USM is more expensive, but then you get stabilisation as well02:48
crashanddiestill only $300 or something02:49
crashanddiefecking heavy camera though02:49
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GAN9001.4 is better in pretty every way02:50
GAN900Faster, more durable, butter shutter, better optics, etc.02:50
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* GAN900 feels too lazy to finish mwkn.02:51
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Termana_n810BUTTER shutter? sounds like a greesy sales stactic02:53
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GAN900Er, better.02:54
b-man17well, my new kernel almost booted properly... xD02:55
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b-man17it seemed to die with alarmd02:55
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corecodemicrousb = bad choice03:20
corecodecouldn't find any usb-microusb cable03:20
crashanddieseems alright to me03:20
Arkenoiminiusb would be much better03:21
RST38h3.5mm round plug would be much better03:22
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crashanddiecorecode: you're not in Europe are you?03:24
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jacekowskicrashanddie: he seems to be03:26
jacekowski02:25 [freenode] -!-  ircname  : Simon Schubert, corecode@fs.ei.tum.de03:26
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corecodei am03:26
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crashanddiewoohoo, 2 minute ping!03:36
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wizkoderHy everybody03:52
sar3thhi wizkoder03:52
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wizkoderI use a png file in my program. when I display it in the qt creator it shows all its colors. but inside the maemo sdk it shows only blue to black colors. whats wrong here?03:53
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wizkoderNobody... okay :-)04:07
wizkoderAnother question: Is it possible to tell a window to use all available space on the screen? what geometry do I have to use?04:10
wizkoderWant it to fill the whole screen on my N90004:11
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wizkoderam I alone or asking the wrong questions? ;-)04:14
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RST38h...accusing Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg of hacking into the email accounts of rivals and journalists...04:16
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jscinozDoes the default maemo 5 media player support displaying album art stored in the audio files itself?05:08
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crashanddiePlease let me know if you notice other bots sending you PMs upon joining the channel05:19
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Termana_n810crashandie - thats a pretty wide wildcard ban. what did you just do, ban a country or two? :P05:22
crashanddieTermana_n810: actually, that would appear to only be a very specific ISP05:23
crashanddieTermana_n810: and it's only temporary, until freenode deals with 'em05:25
crashanddieTermana_n810: also, authenticated users aren't affected by it05:28
Termana_n810crashanddie, you don't have to justify the ban to me, i was just making a joke :P05:28
crashanddieyeah well, whenever I moderate this channel I get crap about it, so i tend to justify extensively now05:29
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CutMeOwnThroateverytime after banning another continent ;)05:50
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GAN900crashanddie, hehe, now you know how qgil feels, eh? ;)05:50
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crashanddieGAN900: yeah, not that anyone should realistically05:51
crashanddieI'm commenting on a piracy thread, and some guy comes in and says "if a moderator disagress, you can get banned or the thread will be locked"05:52
crashanddieI just got called "capitalist scum" because I'm a05:53
crashanddieI'm a "moderator on a corporate forum" and my stance is that I support copyright05:53
crashanddiefollowed by "your narrowness of mind ends up with you selling yourself short"... WTF???05:54
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pupnikhow much must we pay you to chat in #maemo this week?05:55
pupniki lost teh paypal addr05:56
crashanddieI thought Open Source was about Open Spirit more than anything, but the more I hang around, the more I'm starting to believe that this community is slowly slipping towards something even worse than digg/reddit -- only because of very specific members though.05:56
pupniknah the folks who contribute contribute.  the rest of us just yakkity yak05:57
crashanddieIt's the most absolute bollocks if you ask me. The thread starts out asking opinions about piracy, and why we personally believe it is good/bad. And as soon as you give your opinion you get slammed for being a corporate whore/lawyer05:57
crashanddieI reinstantiate my request: X-Fade can you rm -rf /var/www/talk ?05:58
ShadowJKMaybe some moderator not posting in that thread could move the name-calling posts to the "ad-hominem attacks" thread05:58
pupnikargh no. half my notes are there05:58
crashanddiewell, I'm not a moderator in OT anyway, but I would've voted for having that thread moved to general. There are some very good posts, with very valid points on both sides05:59
pupniklook at this way: prosecuting piracy encourages FOSS :)05:59
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crashanddieno, prosecutation encourages defiance, sadly06:03
pupniki just got sick of windows personally and bit the bullet and ditched all that winsoft i didnt need06:07
pupnikand it got funner as linux got better06:08
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crashanddiewell, i've been a linux user since before I was a window suser06:10
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crashanddieI started on SuSE about... 15 years ago? Now I'm more of a OSX user, but Windows remains a given in the workplace06:11
crashanddieI don't care about people pirating, I do care about people making up excuses for their piracy. They're cheap fucks, just admit it06:12
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crashanddie"You can't call us pirates, we're not on a boat attacking ships, raping, murdering and pillaging" <-- When did you become Mr. Sensitive? YOU just ADMITTED to be a member of THE FUCKING PIRATE PARTY.06:13
ali1234the entire free software movement was pretty much founded in anger, what do you expect?06:15
crashanddieit wasn't founded in anger06:16
crashanddieI never worked on code because I was angry...06:16
ali1234sure it was06:17
crashanddieI contributed to code because I was extremely happy with myself and my life -- only when you're at peace can you enjoy spending hours hacking at code for something you'll never get paid for06:17
crashanddieAt least that's my case06:17
ali1234that's why you'll never understand why people are calling you names :)06:17
crashanddieI never heard anyone go "OOOHHHH, Serial expired? Oh man, I'm so happy I could... I could... I'm going to write a new operating system!"06:17
infobotcrashanddie meant: I never heard anyone go "OOOHHHH, Serial expired? Oh man, I'm so angry I could... I could... I'm going to write a new operating system!"06:17
ali1234RMS founded GNU because his printer wouldn't work and he was pissed off06:18
ali1234but it wouldn't have gotten where it is today if bill gates hadn't done an EPIC TROLL on "hobbyists"06:18
crashanddieSo, 20 years later, does his printer work?06:19
crashanddieOr did he notice after 5 years he forgot to plug it in?06:19
ali1234no actually, i think the point is he diagnosed the fault but was unable to fix the problem, and the company who made it was unwilling to fix it06:20
ali1234sounds kind of familiar... hmm who else does stuff like that?06:20
ali1234whether his printer works today is kind of irrelevent. if it does, it was no thanks to the people who he bought it off, who refused to give support06:21
pupnikiirc RMS even submitted bugreports/patches that got ignored06:21
pupnikthere are clear reasons for some software to be Open Source06:22
pupnikespecially OS / drivers06:22
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pupnikless so for media-intense games06:23
crashanddiepupnik: portal 206:24
crashanddieali1234: interesting06:24
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crashanddieali1234: however, that still doesn't help me understand why they think they're entitled to violating copyright laws06:25
crashanddieMooseous: fix your connection06:25
ali1234well, i dunno about that one06:25
pupniksee rick falkvinge's google talk06:26
crashanddieno, I don't want some propaganda leader's google talk, for which he obviously prepared intensely06:26
crashanddieI want people's opinions, their points of view06:27
pupniki understand all the arguments so i could just give you a summary06:28
jebbayou're polling the internet about opinion's about piracy and you're surprised it's spiraling out of control? hmm.06:28
crashanddieIt's like asking people why the vote democrat, and you get offered a speech of their elected representative06:29
pupnikPP argues that enforcement of copyright requires a regime of snooping and enforcement that is unacceptable for privacy06:29
crashanddieIf you can't explain why you're voting for something, how can you vote at all?06:29
crashanddiejebba: actually I'm not polling, I've been called a troll for replying to a question06:29
crashanddiejebba: see the piracy thread in OT section of tmo06:30
ali1234i think it is reasonable to vote for the person who makes the most convincing argument06:30
ali1234even if you are not articulate enough to repeat it yourself06:30
crashanddiepupnik: yeah, however that's the same argument as what one of the guys in the thread used, however most artists and copyright holders never asked for brutal enforcement. I'm a copyright holder, and I've never been asked if I wanted to ruin some kid's life by demanding a massive fine06:31
ali1234anything else is just the same aas saying you have to pass an IQ test to vote06:31
crashanddieali1234: which is pretty much my opinion :P06:31
crashanddiekill the idiots and the elderly06:31
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pupnikPP presents the argument in a binary way, yeah06:32
crashanddiepupnik: I would just like people to have enough decency not to use something if it's against the wishes of the owner06:32
ali1234i don't think oyu really believe that06:33
jebba"Home recording is killing the record industry." "Do your part!"06:33
crashanddieali1234: of course not ;)06:33
ali1234therefore you must be trolling :)06:33
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crashanddieali1234: though there's a few idiots I'd kill with great pleasure :D06:33
pupnikcrashanddie: data isnt naturally a scarce economic good06:33
crashanddieIsn't it really like saying "having laws against tresspassing is burden on society, I don't damage anyone by going into someone else's house, therefore I am allowed to"06:33
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ali1234not really no06:34
ali1234it's more like saying you don't damage anyone by making a perfect replica of their house, and then going into that06:34
pupniksee the literature.  Stephan Kinsella (a patent lawsyer) has an eye opening book on it06:35
crashanddieali1234: but you don't have the right to make a perfect replica06:35
crashanddieali1234: because in order to make a perfect replica, you need access to every single detail of the house -- which is again privacy invasion06:35
crashanddieit's as good an example as I hoped it was, but it doesn't favour either view, sadly06:36
crashanddies/it's/it's not/06:36
infobotcrashanddie meant: it's not as good an example as I hoped it was, but it doesn't favour either view, sadly06:36
crashanddielet's put it another way06:37
ali1234do car analogy!06:38
crashanddieI write a song about something extremely personal, say manic depression, and how it affects my life on a daily basis. I only send it to two people, my girlfriend and my psychiatrist. It would be against my wishes to copy it, sure, making a copy of that song doesn't remove anything from the original copy, but it still goes against my wishes. Would you copy it?06:38
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crashanddie(regardless of the technical aspects of getting access to it)06:38
ali1234is it a good song?06:39
crashanddieI hate most of the crap i write, but for the sake of the argument, let's say yes06:39
crashanddienow remember, i don't want notoriety, I don't want my personal life exposed -- the argument that piracy brings fame would be nil in this use-case06:39
ali1234well probably not06:40
ali1234piracy doesn't exists without the initial demand06:40
crashanddieof course it does06:40
crashanddiedo you honestly believe that kids having 200gig worth of music wanted every single song?06:40
ali1234that's not piracy, that's mental illness06:41
ali1234mild OCD at the very least06:41
crashanddieand let's not forget that the arctic monkeys became famous *because* of P2P, not because there was demand. it was only spread over p2p networks intially06:42
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crashanddieI have a very hard time understanding that. I would love to, but I fail to see arguments which make me go "Aah, yes".06:43
ali1234i have a hard time understanding the popularity of the arctic monkeys too06:44
crashanddieanyway, time to do the expenses again, bank account is going low06:44
crashanddieali1234: lol06:44
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Pavelcrashanddie: I think you are conflating privacy/secrecy with copyright.07:06
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Pavelcrashanddie: In your manic-depressive song analogy, a more accurate one might be that you sent the song to ten thousand individuals, most of whom you did not know personally, and then claimed that further duplication is a violation of your privacy.07:09
Pavelcrashanddie: Please correct me if I am misunderstanding your argument.07:11
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pupnikpointless thread Pavel07:13
pupnikbut good observation07:14
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* Pavel is saddened by how often right to privacy/secrecy is used to justify copyright and how often copyright is (ab)used to maintain secrecy.07:16
PavelMostly the latter.07:16
crashanddiePavel: Agreed, however it was more to understand if people gave any importance to the wishes of the author or not07:23
Pavelcrashanddie: Depends.07:24
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Pavelcrashanddie: There are, after all, factors like empathy and goodwill toward fellow man or woman that factor into the matter, and your example appeals to that. This is distinct from a right/privilege to prevent others from copying it and punish those who do.07:26
crashanddieSo I guess it really comes down to the "I-can-get-away-with-it" feeling07:27
PavelThe copyright, with its proponents and detractors, is the latter.07:27
crashanddiewell, not really. I really doubt that most artists want to punish.07:28
PavelWell, you can't prevent it every time, so the punishment has to be there as a deterrent.07:29
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PavelWhat motivates people's positions in this debate is, indeed, often selfishness, and I do not completely exempt myself from this.07:29
crashanddieAgain, I'm a copyright holder, and when one specific major attacked some kid "on behalf of the authors and artist" they protected, I kindly asked them to not include me in those statements, when they failed to do so, I kindly terminated my contract with them.07:29
Pavelcrashanddie: And I applaud you for it.07:30
ali1234it is folly to try to say all "pirates" have the same motivation07:32
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Pavelali1234: Agreed.07:32
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crashanddieIt's a shame though that so many have such a poor defence07:33
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ali1234on the contrary, i think the fact that people don't even care about having a defence just strengthens the argument for change07:36
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PavelAs to whether the author's wishes should be respected and to what extent, depends on what ethical justification for copyright one believes.07:36
PavelAnd by "respected" I mean "enforced by force of law".07:37
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crashanddieWell, what alternative would there be then?07:37
lucentthe alternative is always bacon07:37
* lucent waves hello to everyone07:38
crashanddieI mean, is not fair that people be paid for something they worked on?07:38
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crashanddieIf they don't mind giving it away to public domain, sure, it is their right, but is it not their right to simply not want to give it away for free?07:38
crashanddieIs this not the same argument as expecting everyone to work for free, rather than just having people give away a few hours at the goodwill?07:39
luke-jrcrashanddie: anti-usury laws07:39
PavelYou misunderstand. I was merely clarifying that term, to make the distinction between the "goodwill" aspect and the "prevent and punish" aspect clear.07:39
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crashanddieWhat prevents people from simply not listening, not using or not viewing a specific song/book/software/movie?07:39
luke-jronce you pay for something, they can't charge you more just to use it differently07:39
PavelNot making a value judgment.07:39
lucentcrashanddie: you tell me, man. I want a multi-platform sample accurate CD audio ripper written using libcdio as the backend, but I'm not much of a programmer. How do I get this accomplished?07:40
lucentcrashanddie: donations? and if donations, then to whom?07:40
crashanddielucent: not donations, how about a labour contract?07:40
lucentagain, with whom?07:40
crashanddieerhm... ?07:40
Pavelcrashanddie: Anyway, that's the "right to profit" justification you are making.07:41
crashanddiePavel: not really, I'm really trying to understand how one is expected to survive if not by having people pay for his work07:41
Pavelcrashanddie: "Right to profit from exploitation of the work" anyway.07:41
luke-jrcrashanddie: copyright is not needed to charge for works07:41
Pavelcrashanddie: That's a separate question.07:41
crashanddiePavel: but it's the one I'm asking07:42
luke-jrI charge $500 for ProgramX. If you don't pay me, you don't get ProgramX. End of story. :p07:42
crashanddiePavel: because if I can have a way to get paid appropriately for the songs/books I've written, and incredible amount of hours I've put in them, I would love to sign up07:42
lucentcrashanddie: I'm serious about that, is reputable? have you used it?07:42
crashanddielucent: I used to be a developer on it07:42
lucentah okay07:43
luke-jrNow say you buy ProgramX from me for $500... and then decide you want to do something I didn't design it to do. With copyright, I can force you to pay me extra to add it.07:43
ali1234i have heard nothing but bad things about rent-a-coder07:43
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luke-jrthat's usury: charging for the product, then charging again to use it.07:43
lucentI hear only the horror stories about Indian coders with little or no education on licensing issues ripping off code without attribution to get paid07:43
crashanddielucent: just check a developer's status. Write a good proposal, be sane in the money you ask for it (don't ask MS Office for $20), and only accept guys who have good reputations -- there's a lot of scum07:43
lucentI have not heard any "yes votes" in favor until you mentioned it07:44
crashanddielucent: if you want to do it seriously, just send a job proposal to your local headhunter job agency07:44
Pavelcrashanddie: How to survive? Simple. Get a different job, and don't bother writing songs and books. Which is a suboptimal outcome, if you produce greater value writing books and songs than you do at your other job, so we have copyright, which is a fairly free-market way to reward the investment (if it's a good one) in production of such works.07:44
crashanddiefind someone local, always better in the long run07:44
Pavelcrashanddie: That's the utilitarian/economic justification.07:44
crashanddiePavel: but would people then pay for each copy of my work?07:45
* Trizt wouldn't07:45
Pavelcrashanddie: Sigh... I am not actually disagreeing with you at the moment.07:45
crashanddieI understand that07:45
crashanddieI'm just trying to go further here07:46
luke-jrcrashanddie: if you continue to maintain it, presumably people would pay for the new versions ;)07:46
luke-jrunless the code sucks07:46
crashanddieluke-jr: read up, not talking about software here07:46
luke-jrcrashanddie: if you only do the work once, you should only be paid for it once.07:46
lucentcrashanddie: thanks for the tips07:47
crashanddieby whom?07:47
crashanddieand how much?07:47
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luke-jrcrashanddie: however much it costs.07:47
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crashanddieluke-jr: do I charge the first customer, the very first buyer $80 * number of hours it took me to produce the song?07:47
crashanddieand then give it away for free?07:47
luke-jrcrashanddie: the problem isn't being honest, it's competing with dishonest people/companies.07:47
crashanddiehow screwed up would that be for the first guy07:48
Pavelcrashanddie: The utilitarian/economic argument then goes that we (as a society) are better off granting an author (whatever the heck that means --- that's a separate discussion) a monopoly on the work that would allow and encourage said author to recoup the opportunity costs of making that work.07:48
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Pavelcrashanddie: Note that the author's wishes only enter this argument in a subsidiary way: they are a means, not an end. So, if in the absence of a copyright system, you would have still produced that work, there is no point giving you copyright for it.07:49
luke-jrcrashanddie: many bands are just putting their music online gratis, and making all their money in concerts, afaik07:50
crashanddieluke-jr: it's not just about the bands, sadly07:50
crashanddieluke-jr: have you read my longish posts on the subject?07:50
crashanddiewant to spend 10 minutes reading?07:50
* lucent notes "tl;dr"07:51
crashanddiefair enough07:51
Pavelcrashanddie: There is also the natural/property rights view of copyright, which says that the author owns the work in a manner comparable to physical property: that is, has a right to _control_ what happens to all instances of that work. Personally, I think that this view is essentially self-refuting, since practically every "work" is, in some way, derived from others, and nobody can really do anything.07:51
Pavelcrashanddie: And, lastly, there is a related view that the author doesn't necessarily have the right to control but has the right to profit from exploitation.07:54
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* Pavel has forgotten where he was going with this.07:54
crashanddieyeah, but the two last ones are flawed in a way07:55
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crashanddiekinda reminds me of all those photogs we accept attribution-only CC on their pictures -- one girl had her picture used to illustrate a news story about a girl being abused while on holiday in cyprus or something07:55
crashanddiewhich wasn't her at all, however now she's marked as such.07:56
luke-jrcrashanddie: that's totally different07:57
luke-jrthat's akin to slander07:57
crashanddieyeah, but it still arises from the fact that she gave away her copyright07:57
luke-jrif there isn't a law to prevent lying, especially in such a way, there should be07:58
luke-jrpeople shouldn't depend on copyright law for totally unrelated protections07:58
lucentgiving away copyright does not overrule laws created to handle slanderous situations07:58
lucent(words could have been more careful but the hope is you all understand what I tried to say here)07:58
crashanddieI can't access the website, but the story should be there08:01
Pavelcrashanddie: Well, open licenses that don't restrict use are a double-edged sword that way. A pacifist contributing to the Linux kernel is not unlikely to have his/her work run on a CPU of a smart bomb...08:02
PavelIn other news, my noise-canceling headphones may have reached their end of life.08:04
PavelLight percussive maintenance helps, for the moment, though.08:05
ShadowJK"light percussive maintenance" eh08:05
lucentis GLib useful to Qt programming?08:07
lucentor are they covering much of the same ground08:07
ali1234they cover the same ground08:08
PavelAFAIK GLib covers the same ground as STL in C++.08:10
PavelSo it's needed for GTK+, since GTK+ native binding is C, to emulate object-orientedness.08:10
PavelQt's native binding is C++, however, GLib would be redundant.08:11
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ali1234Qt does not require STL either though08:11
Pavelali1234: Right, but my sense is that GLib is redundant if you have STL (which you have if you have C++).08:12
ali1234Glib has GObject, Qt has QObject... they do pretty much the same thing08:13
lucentC++ looked "broken" to me about 10 years ago when I looked into it, from a background of C08:13
ali1234C++ is broken, and especially STL08:13
Jaffacrashanddie: Fancy moving the sticky from to
ali1234luckily Qt does not make you use any of the broken stuff08:13
lucentI mean that compilers and behaviors were still undefined08:13
ali1234instead, they reimplemented it08:13
crashanddieJaffa: done08:14
crashanddieJaffa: you're up early :)08:14
ali1234for example, you can't inherit from STL classes, but you can inherit from the Qt equivalents with no problems08:15
Jaffacrashanddie: Indeed. Well, online early. About now I usually stagger out of bed into the shower, but set my alarm early for a migraine check.08:15
* Jaffa should go get 08:15
* Jaffa should go get ready for work.08:15
crashanddieJaffa: any feedback on the email from last night?08:15
crashanddieexcept from the obvious part that telnetting to your smtp on badger isn't the most comfortable way to send email08:16
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sar3thwhoever provided the navit package, THANK YOU SO MUCH!09:51
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Shapeshiftervgba has kind of a hard time.10:45
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MiXu-sar3th: Is it usable while driving?10:47
sar3thMiXu-: i haven't tried that yet, just found it in the extras-devel repo10:47
sar3thi am trying it tomorrow night :)10:48
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MiXu-At least navit UI is the worst I've seen so far on Maemo.10:51
MiXu-unless the one in devel is better than the one in extras-testing.10:52
ShadowJKworse than maemomapper?10:52
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MiXu-can't remember what it looks like10:54
Shapeshiftersar3th: where do you get a map from? (I only have a yellow background image)10:55
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Shapeshiftersar3th: thanks11:01
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Shapeshifterhas someone understood how to use 'flashlight'? its not in the more menu or anywhere11:12
slackmagicShapeshifter: open up the camera lens, then you should see it under the "sys" tray area where your 2g/3g connection, wireless, etc are shown11:14
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slackmagicShapeshifter: make sure you turn off flashlight before you close the camera lens cover again though (almost like unmount before you disconnect a flashdrive)11:14
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Shapeshifterslackmagic: ahh thanks11:15
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sar3thslackmagic: really?11:19
sar3thwhy should you do that?11:19
slackmagicsar3th: i think the flashlight doesn't stop, I haven't tried it yet and I read it somewhere (dev's page?, maemo form, can't recall), just passing on info I've read :D11:20
sar3thslackmagic: it does stop11:21
sar3thwhen you slide it 3/4, the flash goes off11:21
slackmagicsar3th: thanks for the confirmation then, that's good to know11:22
sar3thnp :)11:22
sar3thi just tried it11:22
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sar3thby the way Shapeshifter, you weren't the only one which fell for that trap ;)11:23
sar3ththinking flashlight is broken, as it doesn't show up anywhere except when you open the camera11:25
* Arkenoi wonders if there is a way to prevent camera app from launching if *another* app using camera is active (flashlight, mbarcode, etc), it is very annoying11:25
tybolltsar3th: heh11:25
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cehtehiirc ther are some config thing in systemui.ini and mcs.ini11:29
cehtehflashligh has to open the camera since its controls are officially an api on the camera device11:30
cehtehothers may hack around that, but no one knows what sideeffects that has11:30
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sar3thmy flashlight usage routine is this11:32
sar3th1) open camera hatch11:32
sar3th2) close camera app11:32
sar3th3) start flashlight11:32
sar3thso flashlight itself doesn't open the camera app11:33
cehtehcamera device i saied11:34
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cehtehthats makes it also confliciting with the camera, no flashlight while filming, dunno if thats fixed meanwhile11:35
cehtehno its not11:35
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ShadowJKthere's a thread on tmo11:37
ShadowJKvideolight and autofovus video script11:38
ShadowJKor manual focus11:38
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cehtehyeah, but not in the flashlight app11:38
cehtehyou can tweak gconf not to start the camera app when you open the slide11:39
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pjetHello, I have seen on wiki, that I'm able to ask a question at this channel regarding Maemo11:44
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pjetI have just got a N900, but unfortunately it is not possible to sync with Exchange, as the N900 does not support the mandatory device security settings, set on the Exchange (as is the trouble with many N-series). Is there any way around this on maemo? Any email apps?11:45
nid0you can ask, whether it gets answered is slightly different :>11:46
nid0afaik if your exchange server requires the device to support provisioning you're SOL, the n900 like all n-series phones isnt really a corporate device and isnt exchange certified11:46
pjetExactly the answer I was afraid to get ;)11:47
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pjetandre__, sorry link doesn't work11:49
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nid0link works fine for me11:49
andre__works fine here.11:49
andre__define "doesn't work"11:50
nid0and it just says you're SOL as provisioning doesnt work on the n900 :)11:50
pjetSorry once again _ my bad11:50
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pjetThanks for your quick help and answers11:50
pjetAs you said, I'm SOL11:50
andre__feel free to click "Vote for this bug" in (no need for comments though)...11:51
povbotBug 8452: Provide "provisioning support" for Exchange11:51
pjetwill do11:51
nid0tbh regardless of votes provisioning support's highly unlikely to ever change11:51
pjetHave a great day you all, and thanks once again!11:52
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sar3thdoes anyone know when the media players tag display will be fixed?11:53
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ShadowJKis there a bugreport?11:57
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sar3thi think i saw one, can't seem to find it now :|11:58
sar3ththe problem occurs with additional codec support11:58
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Arif_werz ma firmwarez12:13
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ShapeshifterDoes someone understand where in this first code block example the actual sms message is? pdu_array? Very sparse info on this...12:15
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crsHi there all. Is there a way to update facebook statuses without opening a browser?12:36
MiXu-I use Mauku + Twitter-facebook integration12:37
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zaheermcrs, by sms12:37
crsMiXu-: My mauku has no facebook support.12:38
MiXu-crs: It doesn't.12:38
MiXu-But it has twitter support and you can have all your tweets automatically become your facebook statuses.12:39
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crsMiXu-: O, thanks for that. I am very new to tweeter.12:39
* asj- beats on Freenode12:39
MiXu-That part of the puzzle doesn't have anything to do with N900. If I recall right, you can enable that from twitter's end.12:40
asj-you want the selective twitter app on facebook12:40
crsWhich one for example?12:41
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asj-which one what?12:42
crsoh, there is bild in one, right?12:42
FIQyou know easy debian12:44
FIQcan i somehow make the img file around 4GB instead of 2?12:44
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cehtehimg file?12:46
cehtehloopback mount on vfat?12:47
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LuciusMareHi, no port of "fortune" yet?12:49
FIQthe .img.ext2 file it places on the vfat yeah12:49
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cehtehvfat should be able to handle almost 4GB files13:04
cehtehso you could try to extend it or make a new image and copy files over13:04
cehtehdunno if the ext2 there is resizeable13:05
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cehtehcopying should work nevertheless... so make a image as big as you like (rather fat likes)13:05
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noobmonk3ywohoooo - it kept saying i was a banned user lol... grrrr to auth services!13:08
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* Shapeshifter is wondering how he manages to segfault both pyside and pyqt with his code13:11
Shapeshifterso it must be a bug in my code not pyside >.>13:11
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Shapeshifteror maybe its a bug in Qt itself :>13:13
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burchrif you manage to crash pyqt as well, possibly13:13
Stskeepsmoo butchr13:13
* burchr stabs Stskeeps13:13
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burchri'll butcher you soon13:13
Shapeshifterburchr: yeah it's weird. I don't really see much wrong with my code. I mean, python is pretty indestructible ;)13:15
burchrShapeshifter: pastebin13:15
Shapeshifterburchr: uff it's too big. I do stuff with dialogs. meh. I'll find the problem sooner or later. I heard exec_() is evil.13:15
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burchrexec on dialogs? mm, not exactly evil, but it is misleading13:16
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noobmonk3ylol... seg faults are evil......13:16
burchrin that it doesn't really block, signals etc still can happen elsewhere while it's in exec()13:16
Shapeshifterburchr: I read the API and it said this was the standard use.13:16
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lardman~seen khertan13:37
infobotkhertan <~5c8ef6ab@gateway/web/freenode/x-mreyjdobbbzfwjug> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 2h 27m 18s ago, saying: 'bye ... today the work is to refince electrical board in my house :)'.13:37
lardmananyone know why he's not overly enamoured with extras?13:38
cehtehhehe .. hope he knows how to handle electrics ...13:38
lardmanwell he's still alive and posting to the list at least ;)13:38
cehtehwell he saied thats he spends more time fixing packaging than being productive13:39
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lardmanthat won't change by not being in extras though13:39
cehtehwell if he doesnt have to follow the QA rules from maemo.org13:40
ali1234specifically he said he spent more time fixing his packages to meet rule changes in extras, than actually being productive13:40
lardmanoh right, what are these changes?13:40
cehtehi suggested him to make source releases and find someone who does the packaging for him13:40
* lardman has been coding rather than paying attention to the lists13:40
ali1234lardman: well i think the last straw had something to do with bug trackers13:41
lardmanah, requiring a bugtracker13:41
lardmanyeah, I need to deal with that too13:41
ali1234the actual changes are rather hard to pin down since the list of rules is a wiki page that people edit all the time without announcing anything13:41
ali1234i think the real problem is the first he hears about it is when someone thumbs down his app13:42
mecelardman, what is that about Khertan and extras?13:42
* cehteh proposes that anyone who changes a rule have to fix all existing packages which he break by it :)13:42
ali1234that sounds like a very good idea to me13:42
cehtehhehe hardly enforceable13:42
ali1234it's totally enforcable. just remove thair ability to give "thumbs down" until they do it13:42
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lardmanali1234: yeah, the wonders of thumbing down13:44
lardmanmece: just trying to work that out, see the maemo-devel list from this morning13:44
burchrwindows mobile really is a piece of wank13:45
lardmanbut has pretty uis13:45
burchrnot this version13:45
burchrand i'd rather pressing the menu actually do something as oposed to the entire device being locked13:45
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lardmanhmm, sounds like WinXP when it starts up ;)13:47
Shapeshifterburchr: this is a test case btw.13:47
Shapeshifteropen the dialog a couple of times and it will segfault13:47
* burchr clicks13:47
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mecelardman, hmm I haven't gotten any maemo-devel mails this morning. Have I been removed from the list or something?13:48
lardmanmece: if so, it wasn't me! ;)13:48
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mecelardman, are the mails posted online somewhere?13:48
lardmanbut there have been some emails this morning, 5 since 10.30 gmt13:49
Shapeshifterburchr: I'm stripping it down to isolate the problem some more13:49
lardmanmece: yeah there's an online archive linked from maemo.org13:49
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crashanddie w00t13:49
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ali1234gee, after reading that thread i'm glad i never uploaded anything to extras13:50
lardmancrashanddie: I was expecting pictures from the beach....13:50
crashanddielardman: beach is boring, but if you insist http://www.wickedweasel.com13:50
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lardmanali1234: is not that bad, just don't worry about extras, that way when people comment saying "do this or else" you can just ignore them quite happily :)13:51
lardmanand your app can grow old in extras-testing13:51
ali1234yeah, unless it somehow gets promoted13:51
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lardmancrashanddie: is that what you wear to the beach? ;)13:52
ali1234then i have a possibly buggy app with my name on it, and no way to control when it gets updated13:52
crashanddielardman: somehow I don't think my hairy arse would look good in something like that :P13:52
lardmancrashanddie: lol13:52
lardmanali1234: you can push updates in extras-devel and -testing13:52
crashanddielardman: also depends which part of my body is doing the wearing... Cuz yeah, wouldn't mind "wearing" that :P13:53
lardmanali1234: anyway I was only taking the mick13:53
lardmancrashanddie: lowering the tone!13:53
noobmonk3ywohooooooooo bugtracker sorted and into testing - yay!!!13:53
ali1234lardman: and they won't affect the version in extras13:53
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lardmanali1234: indeed, but I've never bothered to push an app into extras13:53
lardmanthough that will soon change13:54
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noobmonk3ylol apt conversation for me to post that into lol13:54
lardmanindeed :)13:54
noobmonk3ykhertan is around - fixed my py build file for me this morning :)13:54
noobmonk3yjust not come on irc yet ;)13:54
lardmannp, was just going to ask him what was up13:54
lardmanbut we've worked it out13:54
noobmonk3yhe has added a new version of pypackager on his own repo :D13:55
mecelardman, ok, I'm a little confused as to the motives of khertan's migration...13:55
noobmonk3yworks well for me :)13:55
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mecenoobmonk3y, tell me more about this bugtracker? Particularly, what did you do to set it up?13:56
noobmonk3yAhhh the joys of bugtrackers13:56
lardmanGarage one? Do tell as I need to set one up too13:56
* mece also.13:56
noobmonk3yhad to email the bugtracker peoples with a list of things... did that on saturday and Andre added me a bugtracker on sunday :)13:56
noobmonk3ywill find my email13:56
lardmanah ok, on
lardmanandre__: danke13:57
* mece is feeling warmth in his heart, both for the meego stuff and the lovely maemo community. <313:57
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noobmonk3yyeah link is right at the bottom of all bugs pages13:57
meceI dunno wtf is up with me. I'm just feeling really inspired today.13:57
lardmanmece: odd, it is Monday after all13:57
tybollt"warmth in the heart"13:58
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noobmonk3yyeah teh request email addy is : bugzilla@maemo.org13:58
meceperhaps because the weekend was stressfull with sick kids and stuff, and the sun is out, and a random dude added material to my comic widget! Man that stuff gets you all fuzzy inside :D13:58
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noobmonk3yemail i sent to bugzilla is here -
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noobmonk3ythe harder part was getting py2deb to update the bugtracker... but Khertans new version worked :) :)14:01
noobmonk3yneeded his py2packager from his repo and a slightly updated build file14:01
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Shapeshifter allright, here we are. miniature test case, segfaults after 3-5 hits on the button :| For some reason, this one doesn't make pyqt crash, only pyside. While my app, which has more stuff in the dialog also crashes pyqt (but somewhat less often seemingly...)14:09
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Shapeshifterseems like setting the layout on the dialog triggers the bug.14:09
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ali1234can you get a backtrace?14:12
Shapeshifterali1234: well, there are no debug symbols.14:12
Shapeshifteron the n900 at least. does scratchbox have them?14:12
ali1234no idea14:12
ali1234have you tried it on some other machine?14:12
ali1234PyQt4 is available just about everywhere... dunno about pyside14:13
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Shapeshifterali1234: runs fine on my laptop if I disable the alarmd module (which is pymaemo specific) and use pyqt4. But I'm on archlinux and very uptodate. pyqt 4.7.0 and Qt 4.6.214:17
noobmonk3ysry back , phone14:17
ali1234it works fine here on PyQt4.614:18
Shapeshifterali1234: yeah that example doesn't segfault with pyqt either14:18
Shapeshifterbut with pyside14:18
Shapeshiftermy own app segfaults with both but it has more stuff in the dialog14:18
ali1234i'm thinking threading14:18
Shapeshifterali1234: but why does the bug go away when removing the layout lines14:19
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ali1234what happens if you make newEventDialog and newEventVBox local?14:19
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Shapeshifterali1234: seems to stop it from segfaulting as well14:24
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ali1234then it is something to do with threading14:25
ali1234and most likely the more lines of code = more likely to get an overlap and hit the bug14:26
Shapeshifterali1234: probably. I'm now trying the same thing on my app. thanks.14:26
noobmonk3yyeah mine seg'd on the threading part :( - but was using gtk threading in a pyqt app lol ;) (Worked fine after a while, but removed it for safetys sake)14:29
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ali1234my guess is that somehow the click event fired twice, the first dialog got deleted before it could be shown, and then when you do try to show it, you get the segfault14:30
noobmonk3yOoo if anyones bored today - just pushed my app into extras-testing so would like some lovely testers to give it a run through :D -
SpeedEvilScatter printfs libreally.14:33
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* noobmonk3y pokes lcuk14:37
Funnyfacewhich version of flash did the maemo browser have again? 9.x?14:38
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FunnyfaceI guess the plan is to not upgrade it to 10 :P14:39
noobmonk3yhmmm dont know, possibly a meego thing though....14:39
noobmonk3yI'm sure it is possible to upgrade it though14:40
Funnyfacewell I just hope to see flash die to be honest14:40
noobmonk3yeverything goes through phases14:41
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Funnyfaceor adobe are in the position to sit there and choose which platforms they want to support and not14:41
pupnik_it would be nice if that flash-activate-on-click worked14:41
nid0noobmonk3y ill give it a test through, I think I heard whispers of massive power drain while the app's up though?14:41
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noobmonk3yhmmm, someone said they got that working, may have been in ff though14:41
noobmonk3ylol nido - not quite it drained mine yesterday but i had a hell of alot open - so probably just being mis-understood.14:41
noobmonk3yit doesnt do anything if it is just open :D14:42
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sejois there a thethering app for the n900 (using fedora as laptop)?14:42
noobmonk3ythank you though :D14:42
noobmonk3yerm i think there is14:42
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noobmonk3yblue... something (Blue dun?) meh14:42
nid0isnt joikuspot working now?14:43
noobmonk3yoooh yeah, joiku works ok14:44
tybolltI had it working olrite before14:44
tybolltthere a new version or?14:44
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mgedminsejo, Bluetooth DUN support, iirc14:45
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mgedminand if you use a USB cable, you don't need special software -- select PC suite on the N900, use it as a USB modem from Network Manager14:45
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MiXu-Bluetooth tethering is a nice idea... But it's slooow.14:47
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MiXu-It's limited to something like 480kbps14:47
nid0noobmonk3y - i'm guessing no easy way to prevent the camera app from opening when opening the lens cover for the back camera test?14:47
Shapeshifternid0: you can prevent it from launching the camera app from gconf14:48
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Funnyfaceis there software that lets you use it as a modem over wifi then? similar to wmwifirouter on winmo if you are familiar with that :p14:48
noobmonk3ynid0: no sorry :( that is a bit of a pain really14:48
noobmonk3yShapeshifter: ooo i eat my words14:48
nid0Funnyface: thats what joikuspot does14:48
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sejomgedmin: thx14:49
Wolfiedoes the n900 joikuspot have the same limitations as the symbian version? free version only being HTTP, and the commercial lets you use other protocols too?14:49
Funnyfacedoes it seem reliable? because I never found wmwifirouter that reliable, but I think that was a problem with winmo itself14:49
nid0noobmonk3y - any chance of making the vibrate test a bit more.... forceful, almost feels like the vibrator is actually packing up with the way healthcheck triggers it14:49
Funnyfacesometimes DNS wouldn't work and you had to reboot the device14:49
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Funnyfaceother times the thing simply wouldn't connect the data connection :P14:50
Jaffacrashanddie: pong14:50
Jaffacrashanddie: No response to your email, no.14:50
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noobmonk3ylol nid0 - intersting one, i suppose i could get it to time it better.... just running a few dbus commands to get it going. does just about prove it works :D14:51
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noobmonk3ybrb - Lunch15:00
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DocScrutinizernoobmonk3y: strange, a 'cat 200 >/sys/class/leds/tw*vib*/brightness' just triggers a ~500ms vibrator kick. Something seems to stop it15:03
SpeedEvilIt diddn't used to in pr1.0 IIRC15:04
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* DocScrutinizer considers a kill -SIGSTOP mce15:05
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DocScrutinizerthat did it15:08
DocScrutinizer~lart mce15:08
* infobot makes a balloon animal out of mce15:08
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DocScrutinizernow your shape more shows your true nature, mce! ;-P15:08
cehtehyou bad boy, the vibrator is mce's toy15:10
DocScrutinizerfunny!! 'cat >/dev/null'; double-press blueFN to lock numeric input, send some 222 to cat; ^D (back to shell prompt); press Ctrl -> onscreen keyboard pops up. I'd call that a bug15:12
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DocScrutinizerwaaah, sigstopping mce made usb charger vanish15:14
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DocScrutinizeror at least it dimmed screen, though my setup says "no dim while charging"15:15
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if mce barfs chunks on being stopped for a few minutes, then continued15:16
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KhertanHi !15:16
cehtehor some hardware watchdog?15:16
tybolltKhertan: they were talking about you all morning :)15:17
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cehtehhah fixed your house electrics :P15:17
Khertantybollt: about what ?15:17
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Khertancehteh: yep :)15:17
DocScrutinizercehteh: hmm, might be, yes15:17
Khertancehteh: a bit difficult ... but fixed :)15:18
DocScrutinizerfriggin shit, not even replugging helped :-(15:18
cehtehwell mce should keep its fingers off charging, thats bme's job, but it controls screen blanking and other stuff15:18
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DocScrutinizersmells like boot15:19
cehtehwhat controler takes care for the screen brightness? maybe mce refreshes it sometimes15:19
cehtehjust restart mce15:19
cehtehwhile i never tried to stop mce for extended time periods .. i expected somthing like that :)15:20
DocScrutinizeryup. Any official way to do that? like 'start mce -restart' or sth?15:20
cehtehstop mce; sleep 3; start mce15:20
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cehtehdunno if thats 'official' i have the impression that no one at nokia ever imagined one would want to stop certain services :)15:21
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DocScrutinizercehteh: nope :-(15:23
DocScrutinizeror maybe...15:24
crashanddie23:22 < crashanddie> fucking awesome15:24
crashanddie23:22 < crashanddie> just had my fucking face punched in for taking pictures15:24
* DocScrutinizer replugs again15:24
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DocScrutinizercrashanddie: :-O  you been at some conspiracy meeting?15:26
DocScrutinizernah, REBOOT :-(((15:26
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tybolltcrashanddie: literally?15:31
crashanddietybollt: no, I'm holding ice to my face just to really make a point on a metaphor15:32
tybolltjeebuz what the hell happened?15:32
crashanddieI was taking pictures, just candid/street photography, some guys didn't like that.15:33
tybolltas in guards, police... or just random dudes?15:33
crashanddierandom dudes15:33
tybolltbloody hell, that is fucked up...15:33
Khertancrashanddie: ouch ... i think it was a stupid french reaction ... don't know that can happen elsewhere15:33
crashanddiethey've been arrested, everything's been caught on CCTV15:33
tybolltsweet then15:34
marmoutecrashanddie: where did you take those picture ?15:34
tybolltI mean... that they got caught...15:34
nid0yep, getting punched in the face must be well sweet, as long as the person who did it gets banged up..?15:34
tybolltthe fact that they got caught is sweet....15:36
tybolltthe rest is just fucked up...15:36
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FIQMHeiGB18030C-Medium Light 1215:57
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FIQ=dejavu sans momo?15:57
FIQand btw15:57
FIQwhy that strange name15:57
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nomisFIQ: certainly not Dejavu. No idea about the name.16:05
nomisFIQ: seems to be mainly targeted for a non-latin script, the latin glyph shapes are not very balanced.16:06
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pupnik_been playing with gqview16:07
pupnik_it is so much faster than photo app16:08
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Khertandid you think flyspray is simple enough for a simple user to add bug in the tracker ?16:10
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noobmonk3ysorry DocScrutinizer  - had gone for lunch :)16:15
noobmonk3yback now :D16:15
ShapeshifterKhertan: I like flyspray16:16
* Khertan like flyspray too :)16:16
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Khertanbut it s maybe not so easy for simple users16:16
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noobmonk3yKhertan: thank you for your help :D16:18
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ShapeshifterKhertan: in that case, no bug tracker is "easy" for simple users.16:20
ShapeshifterProbably, for a "simple" user, the hardest task you can ask of him is to click on one of 5 stars to rate a program.16:21
ShapeshifterI think that's about as far as it can get.16:21
Khertannoobmonk3y: your welcome ... thanks for using my packaging tool :)16:23
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KhertanWhat did you think of encapsulating a whole python program by a try: except: BugReportInterface.display()16:24
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noobmonk3yKhertan:  didnt know i had another option - anyway it is incredibly user friendly :D16:25
noobmonk3yoooo debugging? :D16:26
Khertandebugging ?16:26
Khertanwhat did you mean ?16:26
noobmonk3ythe bugreporter thing ?16:27
Khertanyep ... i ll try to make a bug reporting ui for my apps16:28
noobmonk3ycool :D16:28
Khertanwill be better to invite user16:28
Khertanand as i cannot modify bugs.maemo.org16:28
RST38hShapeshifter: they will click these randomly16:28
Khertani ll modify my custom flyspray install :)16:28
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RST38hMoo all btw16:28
FIQbut then, why says debian dejavu is installed but i'm unable to choose it?16:29
FIQ(arm debian, maemo didn't have it in repos at all)16:29
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Khertanreboot needed of the webbrowser due to firefox extension added16:33
Khertanbye :)16:33
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ShapeshifterRST38h: ^^16:43
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* Shapeshifter sees that, as expected, downloading 3.3GB of map data over wireless makes for swift battery depletion.16:44
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RST38h(and yes, it does cost like two N900s :))16:49
derfIs that an official unit of measurement now?16:50
lcukderf seems reasonable16:50
derf"This laptop costs 3 N900's."16:50
lcukluke found out today his year head has an n90016:51
noobmonk3ythat measurement fails when the ucky few who got free n900's join in ;)16:51
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noobmonk3ylcuk - healthcheck in testing :D16:51
lcuknahh it just throws out the stats a bit16:51
nomisRST38h: I've seen that one "live" at the embedded world in nuremburg.16:51
RST38hnomis: is it really that great?16:51
derfPresumably for currency conversion purposes you use the current N900 price on the spot market.16:51
noobmonk3ygood point derf16:52
noobmonk3ywhich countries prices? ;)16:52
RST38hUS of course16:52
noobmonk3ysuppose it depends where you are buying the laptop16:52
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derfThis leads to significant opportunities for arbitrage, of course.16:52
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jacekowskilaptop worth 3xN90016:52
jacekowskithat's a lot16:52
RST38hAlthough I kinda suspect it will work with any currency16:52
noobmonk3y:D is it 3 * as good? ;)16:52
jacekowskimy laptop is worth 1,2N90016:52
noobmonk3ycan you use it as a phone? hehe16:52
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nomisRST38h: it is less bright than one would hope, but the no-need-for-focussing is cool.16:53
RST38hnomis: =)16:53
nomisit has the typical laser speckle patterns though, which might be a bit tricky to get used to.16:53
RST38hmoire patterns?16:54
lcukthose arent speckle patterns, those are the cells in the back of your eye melting16:54
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lcukremember children: do not look into the projector with your remaining eye16:54
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RST38hlcuk: Better: "Do not direct this projector at a mirror"16:54
RST38hPossibilities for disaster boggle the mind16:55
nomislcuk: they also had a HUD-installation there based on the same technology.16:55
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RST38hnomis: ah interesting16:55
jacekowskilcuk: why?16:55
derfOh, is that one of those holographic laser projectors?16:55
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jacekowskilcuk: it's less bright than normal projector16:56
* lardman again wishes for a digital compass after seeing some of these:
jacekowskilcuk: it's safer to look into it than into normal projector16:56
lcukworst case scenario you can just be fitted with a VISOR so its not end of world16:56
nomisderf: not sure about the holographic. Apparently it uses micro-mirror scanning stuff.16:56
derfIf they're in a consumer product, they're presumably class 1 lasers.16:56
jacekowskiwell, you could burn out eyes with properly focused incandescent light16:57
RST38hjust takes more work16:57
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derfOf course. Laser safety ratings are always for the "unaided human eye".16:58
RST38hderf: class 1 laser is actually enough to cause minor damage16:58
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jacekowski200W bulb from 1cm will cause more damage16:58
* lcuk lobs a 20w bulb towards jacekowski16:59
lcuki bet that does damage too ;)16:59
RST38hjacekowski: Not sure how you are gonna stick your eye so close to a 200w bulb16:59
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tybolltthen again every other kid today has those crazy strong green lasers they shoot at police officers and planes...16:59
tybolltthat scares the living diddley out of me16:59
RST38hbut yes, it takes effort and determination to damage your eyes with an incandescent bulb17:00
derfnomis: Anyway, the holographic stuff uses diffraction patterns, not mirrors.17:00
derfWell, there may well be mirrors involved somewhere, of course.17:00
jacekowskitybollt: you can do same thing with incandescent light bulb and couple lenses17:00
derfBut it's not the primary means of producing the image.17:00
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jacekowskior halogen lamp + couple lenses17:01
tybolltjacekowski: point is - can that be something as small as a pencil?17:01
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jacekowskitybollt: it can17:01
RST38hOMG Avatar lost.17:01
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RST38hWhat are all the fans gonna do?17:01
derfGo watch it again.17:01
jacekowskitybollt: i think small hallogen bulbs go up to 100W17:02
derfAnd make it another $2.5bln.17:02
jacekowskitybollt: + couple lenses17:02
jacekowskitybollt: and you can make plane crash17:02
jacekowskilasers are just more efficient17:02
derfI'd much rather be James Cameron than Katherine Bigelow, even if I didn't bother to see his movie, and I saw hers.17:02
* RST38h has not watched Avatar. Hehe.17:02
jacekowskiand easier to focus17:02
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threshRST38h: it's actually quite cool if watched in imax17:03
* DocScrutinizer starts to drool over specle atterns of his 150mW green laser17:04
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derf150 mW? That's not class 1.17:05
RST38hthresh: Yea, but I hate the noise and the fake "catharsis" around it17:05
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* edheldil starts to drool over his 150 MW green laser ;-)17:06
DocScrutinizernah, who cares classX17:06
arachnistedheldil: try not to drool at while it's on17:06
DocScrutinizeredheldil: :-DD17:07
derfWell, if you've got proper safety gear, it's fine of course.17:07
edheldiltime for some Death Star demonstration, muhahaha ....17:07
RST38hedheldil: Was that a capital "M" by the way?17:07
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DocScrutinizercan'rt read anymore :-(17:08
DocScrutinizerlooked at the spot on a white wall ;-P17:08
derfUsually you don't have to worry about eye damage from scattered light until class 4.17:09
derf(e.g., over 500 mW)17:09
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DocScrutinizerderf: not exactly damage, but a dark spot17:09
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arachnist"Try not to look at the laser with your remaining eye"17:10
derfClass 4 also causes skin damage. It's good stuff.17:10
DocScrutinizerphoto flashlight would've been worse :-P17:10
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lardmanI've got a 20W welding laser down in the lab17:11
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if a 10mW 420nm laser might cause some damage to skin as well17:11
lardmanand green glasses17:11
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arachnistlardman: can has it to playz? ;)17:11
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DocScrutinizerooh actually 405nm17:11
lardmanarachnist: you want to burn pencils and ablate test samples too...?17:12
arachnistlardman: :)17:12
lardmanmine's iirc 808nm17:12
DocScrutinizerlardman: red enough :-D17:12
* noobmonk3y yawns17:12
arachnistlardman: i'd burn my old phone17:12
RST38harachnist: RAZR? =)17:14
DocScrutinizerderf: actually a green 3W laser didn't do any harm to my skin17:14
lardmancan't see speckle patterns with mine, though I could probably see the negative if I took my glasses off and burned them into my retinas17:14
arachnistRST38h: se k800i17:14
MohammadAGE: Handler silently failed :( apt-get17:15
lardmanI do have a shearography kit with 4 laser diodes at 568nm or thereabouts to produce wide area speckle, but that's too bright too look at for long17:15
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DocScrutinizerderf: except one single time when it felt like a short hit of a needle17:15
lcuklardman, isnt that what got you into trouble the last time17:15
arachnistRST38h: i might actually use it with my nagios^Wicinga installation, but that'd require me to get a pre-paid17:15
* derf waits a few years for DocScrutinizer to develop skin cancer.17:15
lardmanlcuk: I did think I'd done something to one of my eyes yeah, seems to have got better though which is good17:16
DocScrutinizerderf: but that friggin device actually shot a permanent black spot to my right eye's rhetina17:16
* lcuk gets you an eye patch17:16
Arif_has Nokia made the N900 more buggy yet?17:16
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ptljust noticed that there's a directory fremantle-1.2 on repository.maemo.org17:17
derfI'll make sure not to work in the lab with you, then.17:17
derfYou and lasers don't sound safe together.17:17
* Arif_ points a green laser at derf17:17
* noobmonk3y blinks17:18
lardmanderf: the red ones are designed to be used without eye protection to produce speckle, no idea what happened to my eye or even whether it was me17:18
DocScrutinizerderf: the setup wasn't mine, supid employer's multimedia show, with the laser *behind* the service bridge, exactly in eyes' level17:18
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* lcuk notes to goto morgan freeman errr simon pickerings lab when a resonance cascade failure occurs17:19
DocScrutinizerand we had to walk the bridge all day to service the Kodak projectors17:19
lardmanpeople with those laser shows seem somewhat safety-lax17:20
* lcuk wonders where morgan camer from17:20
lcukof course i meant gordon17:20
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DocScrutinizerlardman: that particular guy was the most crazy boss I ever had17:21
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noobmonk3yhmmm coffee or tea... what a tough decision......17:23
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lcuknoobmonk3y, tea made in cold water and steeped using laser light17:25
noobmonk3ylol lcuk  - naaaa, would still be at work in a week if i tried that method17:26
RST38hHehe, Apple continues removing apps from AppStore17:27
lcuko_O maemo planet feed has picture of female with umm what appears to be bouncy funbags!17:27
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* RST38h thumbs it down =)17:28
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rangeEven worse: I don't see her carrying a phone.17:29
lcuklol RST38h you just want to touch them whichever way17:29
lcukrange, she has a pedometer attached to her chest17:29
lcukor swingometer or something17:29
lcukinfact, it might just be a pebble she found on the floor17:29
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lcukkinetic bazookas!17:30
RST38hActually, the study of an optimal place to attach the dynamo to female breasts, for effeciency, definitely deserves a DARPA grant17:30
RST38hWith women in the military, etc17:30
lcukthats worth at least 4 n900s17:31
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lardmancould probably use piezo bra-straps17:32
derfRST38h: With which office?17:32
tybolltRST38h: could work as well for real fat guys17:32
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RST38hderf: Marines!17:33
lcukfor large males wouldnt a small turbine between the manboobs be a better idea - to make use of the sweat flow17:33
derfNo, I meant of DARPA.17:33
derfMaybe STO?17:34
RST38hderf: No idea, but I am sure good doctors will figure it out17:34
derfI don't know that we normally do much business with them, but we might still be able to get someone to bring it up.17:34
RST38hderf: That will probably beat the last record, by MIT17:34
* lardman still can't see any easily convertable electronic compasses17:35
RST38hderf: "Finding nude people on background made of black/red velvet"17:35
lardmantybollt: well usable or easily converted for use with an n90017:36
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tybolltlardman: like a hw hack?17:36
lardmantybollt: I'd prefer a bt jobbie17:36
tybolltor like a BT enabled thing17:36
lardmanthe latter17:37
lardmanthough have we seen a picture of the N900's board anywhere, I still wonder if there's one hidden on there still....17:37
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RST38hOk, work.17:37
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tybolltlardman: ? like it is soldered on the board but no device driver is there?17:39
tybolltor like it's solderedon the board but the pins aren't hooked up (why on EARTH they would do this?)=17:40
lardmannot sure how realistic my hope is mind you, but it still seems odd to not have one, esp when the N97 has one17:40
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tybolltit does? Well now...17:41
tybolltgets intriguing17:41
lcuklardman there is n900 striptease videos out and someone has posted links to the deep service manuals afaik17:41
lardmanlcuk: I saw a service manual, but not circuit diagrams and no video of the complete board17:41
lardmanjust stuff like removing the screen, kb, etc.17:41
lcukif i spot one ill let you know17:42
tybolltdidn't the madhats over at engadget/ginzmodo dissasemble theirs?17:42
tybolltand made a video out of it17:42
lardmandid they?17:42
tybolltI recall there being a video out shortly after the official release17:43
tybolltor were they pics?17:43
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Shapeshifterhumm. so I downloaded the openstreetmap planet.bin and inserted <map type="binfile" enabled="yes" data="/home/user/MyDocs/stuff/Navitmap/planet.bin" /> into /home/user/.navit/navit.xml (which didn't exist) and now Navit crashes on startup. And why does it run in gdb when launched from the CLI.17:44
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lardmantybollt: the ones I've seen leave the shield in place over the main board, so you can't see the chips17:44
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ptlis there a repository where I can get drnoksnes 1.3.0 along with the libraries?17:47
ptlbecause drnoksnes is not on anymore and has 1.2.4, which is backlevel17:48
pupnik_dr schlocksnes is ghone?  hwahahaha17:48
lardmanhmm, there are some pictures in here ( but not detailed enough to read easily17:48
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noobmonk3yhmmm i feel working at home this afternoon sounds like a plan17:52
pupnik_i need a whack-a-kitten game17:52
noobmonk3ylol pupnik........17:52
noobmonk3ythat could be rev_kathy's first game? :D17:53
VDVsxJaffa, extras decoders ins't a daemon afaik, is a enabler right ?17:53
* Shapeshifter suspects the file is too big for the n900 navit version..17:54
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lardmanadds gst pipeline elements doesn't it VDVsx?17:54
VDVsxlardman, think so, some extra codecs17:55
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t_s_ohmm, seems even when resistive screens pick up multitouch, capacitive fans (or should i say ip* fans?) finds a reason to stay with capacitive, as if the specific implementation issues are inherent in the technology...18:11
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Shapeshifterbefore I got the n900 I was very concerned that the resistive screen would annoy me. now I don't care at all. I even think it's hugely superior due to better accuracy.18:13
* Shapeshifter couldn't play openttd on 800x480 on a capacitive screen18:13
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JaffaVDVsx: Indeed. But SSH server is the same. User installs stuff and other stuff happens. If no manual interaction is required in X Terminal, it shouldn't have the X Terminal icon.18:14
JaffaVDVsx: However, x11vnc does require X Terminal to start it. SSH server starts automatically, so is different.18:14
JaffaVDVsx: SSH *client*, of course, should have the icon ;-)18:14
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KhertanHi again !18:15
Khertanhum ... +i on channel again ?18:15
Stskeepswb Khertan18:15
VDVsxJaffa, but you can control it from the command line, so is a CLI app ;)18:15
noobmonk3ywb Khertan18:16
lardmanhi Khertan18:16
Khertanhi lardman18:17
Khertanok ... so flyspray now setted18:17
Khertanneed to report actually open bugs on bugzilla to it ...18:17
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Khertannoobmonk3y: i think for my bug reporting interface i ll made a simple module that can be use easily so maybe you ll be able to use it too in your HealthCheck apps :)18:18
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Khertanbut it ll not works with bugzilla18:18
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Khertanso maybe i should add a email report option18:19
Khertanas i don't think you want that report is made to my bugtracker18:19
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noobmonk3yooo i'm intruiged Khertan .... does sound very interesting :D18:20
josephnexushello everyone18:20
josephnexusi'm looking at getting the n900 and have been hearing mixed reviews18:20
noobmonk3ylcuk seems to be my sole bug at the moment.... I might ask that goes and buys an iphone to save me the trouble ;)18:20
josephnexusespecially in regards to bluetooth and disabling wifi18:20
noobmonk3yjosephnexus:  - I love it :D - but i'm biased18:21
noobmonk3yDisabling wifi is easy, icon on desktop....18:21
josephnexusok, and regarding bluetooth?18:21
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noobmonk3yBluetooth works fine for me, what specifically do you need? (Ptrovich an app, will allow you to send anything)18:21
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noobmonk3yBluetooth DUN is also an app18:21
* lcuk can use your earlier apps noobmonk3y just not latest variation 18:21
noobmonk3yahhh, lcuk, your n900 is ancient though ;) - it runs on steam power18:22
josephnexusthat's the review that has me worried18:22
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lcukwell its hostname is liq-n00 ;)18:22
noobmonk3yhmmm gimme a sec to fully read... but seems odd brb 1 min18:22
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noobmonk3yNote: regardless of what people say, there is NO way, zero, none, nada, to turn off the wifi radio via graphical interface. - lol ;)18:23
josephnexusi figured i'd ask the community18:23
josephnexusi love OSS18:23
josephnexusand so i knew there would be an IRC channel18:23
noobmonk3yhehe... well there are some good reviews...18:23
josephnexusi know18:23
lcukive just seen a desktop widget for disabling wifi18:23
noobmonk3yhe dowes raise some concerns that you can should be aware off18:23
noobmonk3ythat can be answered in why you want the device ;)18:23
lcukand you can of course enable flight mode18:23
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noobmonk3yas every choice is personal.18:23
lcukand turn off all radios18:23
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josephnexusi've never liked smartphones18:24
noobmonk3yIf you use it 24/7 the battery will not be great... but better then some other devices i have had18:24
josephnexusmy current phone lasts 3 hrs under use18:24
josephnexusso i'm not too worried18:24
josephnexusand usually i'm near power18:24
noobmonk3ynot liking smartphones is not a good start, but as the OS and the phone is new18:24
noobmonk3yit takes a while to get apps out18:24
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KhertanOther stuff: The battery charges much faster now, but it also drains much faster. There are some great apps starting to show in the pipeline. A lot of hard work from the community going on and new things are showing up daily in devels and testing repositories. They just aren't hitting extras (production) fast enough.18:24
KhertanLOL ....18:24
noobmonk3ySo when he wrote it the icon (Probably was out), but he prob didnt see it, or it was in testing18:24
Khertanthe amazon review18:24
josephnexusthe reason i've disliked smartphones is 1) speed18:25
noobmonk3ylol Khertan  - that made me laugh too18:25
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josephnexusi had an ipaq that i had to wait 30 seconds for the dialing interface to come up18:25
josephnexusand then i'd dial18:25
josephnexusand wait 15 seconds for the number to appear18:25
noobmonk3yOk 1) - this this is blistering fast.... (For me, but i'm used to e71's, etc...)18:25
josephnexusit was a pain18:25
haltdefthink that's a windows mobile thing :P18:25
josephnexusi figured as much18:25
josephnexusthe second thing is handling all of my data18:25
josephnexusi have about 6 GB of email18:25
josephnexusthat i plan on moving to this device18:25
lcukn900 has torrent client18:25
noobmonk3ylast night i was on the n900, on irc, in a car, talking to lcuk... i was browsing the web.... i had emails and im going, i had music playing... and the whole thing kept going happily18:25
josephnexusyeah, i understand that speed isn't an issue18:26
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josephnexusthat's why i'm considering this one18:26
josephnexusnext thing, syncing18:26
josephnexuscan I sync with linux?18:26
noobmonk3yahhh good q :)18:26
Khertanouch .... the vote are so bad on amazon !18:26
mtnbkrnoobmonk3y: hope you were the passenger :)18:26
noobmonk3yi think so - not best to ask me, but anyone else?18:26
josephnexusor do I need to set up an IMAP server18:26
noobmonk3ymtnbkr:  - yup gf the taxi driver did a fine job!18:26
josephnexusand forget about syncing the calendar?18:27
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josephnexus3rd... bluetooth bluetooth bluetooth...18:27
josephnexushow well does it work?18:27
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josephnexusi use bluetooth for my headset on the computer18:27
josephnexusand would of course, use the same headset for this18:27
noobmonk3ywhat headset have you got? heard of some issues with some devices18:28
Khertanclearly ... the calendar syncing is only working well with exchange 2003 ... (and not google exchange or exchange 2007) at least from what i read on talk.maemo.org18:28
noobmonk3ykhertan - works fine on exchange.... (2007)18:28
haltdefhope it can sync contacts with google apps18:28
haltdefthat's good to have on WM18:28
Khertannoobmonk3y: good to hear it18:28
noobmonk3yi think kathy and i are the only special ones though ;)18:28
noobmonk3yis that a wontfix?18:29
noobmonk3yi mean the 2007 main issues18:29
josephnexussyncing isn't too big of a concern... cuz i'll be using this device for most of my stuff18:29
josephnexusand I assume that the IMAP client is good18:29
noobmonk3yjosephnexus: in short - hmmm... possible issues with some ways, but there are allways multiple ways to do things :)18:29
josephnexusso that's not too big of an issue18:29
josephnexushow's the bluetooth...18:29
Khertanjosephnexus: the imap client isn't the best .... but it s a good one18:29
noobmonk3yimap works for me on one of my personal emails, and yahoo mail works fine via nokia messaging18:29
josephnexusthat was a sticking point in that review18:30
noobmonk3yWhat headset have you got?18:30
josephnexusimap would be on my own corporate server18:30
josephnexusit's just a generic one18:30
josephnexusfor making calls and such18:30
noobmonk3yworth looking at if it will work with yours, i've only used it to connect to my tomtom, worked fine18:30
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noobmonk3ypeople say it works fine with the recommended headset ... but other then that, you may have to look at the forums18:30
josephnexusdid you have disconnection issues, or do those appear fixed?18:30
noobmonk3yWith the tomtom, stayed connected for 6 hours :D18:30
lardmanhmm, I do sometimes get the feeling that users don't understand what the thumbs up/down represent for the packages18:30
josephnexuswell... bluetooth should be bluetooth18:31
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josephnexusi mean... this one adheres well to the bluetooth headset standard18:31
josephnexusit works out of the box on my ubuntu workstation18:31
josephnexusvideo calls, can this do it?18:31
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noobmonk3yshould be fine no issues..... remember that the people who complain outnumber the people who have it working fine....18:31
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noobmonk3ynow thats a toughy18:32
lardmanjosephnexus: not yet with skype, but apparently should come with the next update18:32
noobmonk3ythe front c am is painfully bad18:32
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heoaThis mini-USB with n810?
josephnexusis it a lighting concern?18:32
noobmonk3yit works on IM video, so skype / google IM etc, but specifically when pc to phone18:32
noobmonk3yits a 1mb camera concern lol18:32
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noobmonk3yas said by lardman  - should be sorted soon18:32
josephnexus1mp or 1mb?18:32
noobmonk3yback cam is the carl zeiss one18:32
josephnexus1mp as a webcam will suffice18:32
josephnexusthe back i know is superb18:33
josephnexusthe front is what i'm asking about18:33
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noobmonk3ybrb 5 mins phone18:33
ptlI found the front cam to be very usable18:33
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josephnexusptl, what apps use it?18:33
ptlhowever, I'd still prefer 3G videocalls over google and MSN videocalls18:34
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josephnexusis it possible to do that currently?18:34
Khertansee you later ... bye18:34
ptljosephnexus: google talk (comes with the device) and aMSN18:34
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josephnexusand support for skype should be soon18:34
ptlno 3G videocalls though18:34
josephnexuswhich makes me happy18:34
josephnexuswhy not?18:34
ptland I'd like skype videocalls too but it seems it doesn't work18:34
ptlI dunno18:34
josephnexusbut over wifi it's fine?18:35
josephnexuswell... i'm gonna head out18:35
ptlit's fine but for google talk videocalls I couldn't find any way to initiate the videocall18:35
ptlonly to accept18:35
ptland then everything goes fine, you can see the other person and such18:35
josephnexusmost of my questions have been answered18:35
ptlI've made a lame blurry youtube video out of it18:35
josephnexusthanks a ton ptl, and crew18:36
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josephnexuslooks like i'll be ordering on the 16th18:36
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heoaCan you use 5-pins Male A USB to micro USB socket in N810?18:37
ShapeshifterSo... has anyone got navit working with openstreemaps? Since I enabled the map in navit.xml (which I copied from /etc/) navit crashes on startup. I tried the planet.bin as well as just europe.18:37
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lardmanShapeshifter: not tired in a long time I'm afraid18:42
Shapeshifterlardman: it's packaged now in fact.18:42
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Shapeshifternow its working18:44
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noobmonk3ywoah, so much for working at home this avo... almost 5pm lol18:46
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lardmancu later chaps18:46
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Shapeshifterthese guys have even placed bench symbols on the map18:47
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VDVsxn900 passed the n95 ? :D18:49
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: some get a bit obsessed.18:49
VDVsxno yet ;)18:49
SpeedEvilerr - not close18:50
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: this is quality ^^18:50
_berto_it passed n9718:50
SpeedEvil126 daily users versus 52718:50
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: where are you?18:50
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ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: switzerland18:50
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SpeedEvil'rank' is 5 - which isn't bad. n95, 5800, e71, 6300, n90018:52
SpeedEvilI'd love to see a map of geotagged photos of hte n90018:53
lcukextrapolate from
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SpeedEvil2% of active n900 users as iphone 3g18:55
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mtnbkrSpeedEvil: Earthscape on iPhone was really cool for that.18:58
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heoaAnyone connected n810 with Teensy++ with the USB-mini B to USB-micro B connector?19:08
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* Noobmonk3y waves19:09
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Noobmonk3ygotta love xchat :)19:09
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Shapeshiftermhh. is there some way of enabling a mouse cursor on the n900? I mean globally.19:11
Noobmonk3ydont think globally19:11
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ShapeshifterNoobmonk3y: pessimist ;)19:14
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Shapeshifterit's linux. anything goes. Just which way...19:14
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ptlis there a way to see the new applications that appear on a repository?19:19
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ptl...yessss? how?19:22
ptlok, I'll take that as a yes, but you don't want to tell me the secret :(19:22
Noobmonk3yapp watch application19:23
* cehteh misses dselect19:23
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heoaI need rigth connectors between n810 and Teensy++. I have found USB-micro B to USB-mini B, but I think it should be USB-micro A to USB-mini B. Any experience?19:26
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Noobmonk3yno idea sry19:27
ptlNoobmonk3y: installing.... Thanks, Noobmonk3y19:28
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VDVsxlardman, "your" bug was finally fixed :D, your t-shirt will not make sense next summit :(19:31
lardmanVDVsx: I know :(19:31
VDVsxI think this is meego fault :D19:32
lardmanthen again meego doesn't even have a pane like that, so it probably wouldn't have anyway!19:32
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lardmanI'll just know who the old skool members are, those who laugh at me (more than normal :))19:32
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Noobmonk3ynp ptl19:35
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ptlAm I witnessing the first-ever lockup of my device? I just installed appwatch and the app manager froze19:36
ptlit has been a few minutes already. Is there any way to force it to terminate?19:36
SpeedEvilpower button end task19:37
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sar3thctrl+shift+x ps aux kill <pid>19:37
lardmanI'm finding app manager finishes spinning its little spinny thing, then sits there doing nothing until I go back a page then forward again19:38
GAN900App Manager just gets slower the more hardware we get.19:38
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lardmanit is rather craptastic compared to Apple's fare19:38
lardmanthough it's far faster to list installed packages than Andoid is19:39
nomisI wonder if the push for RPM with meego was because of ".deb is slow, see the app manager!"19:39
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ptlpower button is not responding19:40
ptllemme try ctrl-shift-X19:40
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ptlctrl-shift-x does not respond19:40
lardmannomis: who knows, but the slowness appears to just be in the ui app (or the lib it links against) rather that apt on the command line19:40
VDVsxlardman, android is even slower ?19:40
lardmanVDVsx: yeah, you can ask it to show installed packages and it takes an age19:41
nomislardman: yeah. It is fantastically slow compared to the debian tools.19:41
zashDoes anyone have any insight into this:
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lardmanpresents a list then starts filling in the details, though it does show space consumed per-package so that must be rather time consuming19:41
ptla yellow light just blinked and went off19:41
lardmanptl: above your head?19:41
ptlno, on the N90019:42
lardmancharging light perhaps?19:42
ptlno... battery was more than halfway up19:42
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ptlhad to reboot...19:42
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ptlmy first ever hangup :/19:42
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Noobmonk3ypity, appwatch works ok19:44
lardmanI wonder when this next update to Qt 4.6.x will be, lots of apps that require a 15.5Mb download.....19:44
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ptlPR 1.2 will be huge19:49
ptlthere's a whole new repository section for it19:49
* SpeedEvil wonders if pr1.1.1 will hit the uk19:52
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* SpeedEvil passes Shapeshifter a sheet of words.19:54
ptlProduction Release, I think19:54
ptlit's how they name the updates19:54
lardmanSpeedEvil: I think we've already had it....?19:54
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: why thank you :)19:54
Shapeshifterit's just that, as the maemo people kinda took normal keyboard keys and then just made custom keyboard layouts for every version it seems. which is kinda stupid I think19:56
* Noobmonk3y blinks19:56
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Shapeshifterbecause now that I learned of x2x, I have to press things like altgr-V on my desktop to get a "/". Why didn't they just use normal keyboard layouts and added the n900 keys to the map.19:57
SpeedEvillardman: for various sorts of we19:58
lardmanSpeedEvil: no ota for you then?19:58
greenflyI wonder if that's why they are so adamant about making BT keyboards not work19:59
lardmangood Lord, 3 axis electronic compasses are bloody expensive19:59
fluxlardman, how much?19:59
SpeedEvillardman: no19:59
SpeedEvillardman: no, they're not19:59
lardmantrue, but in a form that requires little soldering they seem to be19:59
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SpeedEvilwell - you only actually (IIRC) need 5 connections to that one.20:00
SpeedEvilbut, yes20:00
lardmanno idea how they go from $20 to $200 just by adding tilt compensation20:00
lardmanneed an accelerometer of course20:00
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bigbrovarI guys.. am about to sell my N900 so I can get a new one (Long story ok ok the old one hsa some dents) I am trying to back up some files like my contacts and conversations (sms, IM etc) How can I do it. AFAIK the N900 does not work with Ovi Contacts in the cloud. and I am on LInux so  no Nokia PC Suite for me.. any tip?20:02
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lardmanbigbrovar: use the inbuilt backup app?20:02
bigbrovarlardman: does that back up contacts and conservations ?20:03
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lardmanyeah, certainly contacts, conversations too I think20:03
bigbrovarlardman: am not sure about the conversations... They is a options that says communications and calendar (not sure if the communications means my sms and IMs )20:04
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bigbrovarlardman: come to think of it. it doesnt say anything about contacts :( re: N900 backup20:05
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lardmandunno, I always tick all and restore all, and I am pretty sure my conversations come back20:05
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lardmancertainly my contacts do20:06
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bigbrovarlardman: same here.. any idea where the db for the conversation thingie is saved..20:10
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andre__bigbrovar:  ~/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db ?20:16
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bigbrovarandre__: thanks .. any idea if the backup tool on the N900 also backs up conversation and contacts? am about to sell my N900 to buy a new one and I want to be sure I would have convesation and contacts backed20:17
andre__conversations: for me it always did. contacts: never tried20:18
andre__well, back up to external card, reflash device, restore, see results :)20:18
andre__but I guess it does20:18
GAN900andre__, lol @ the email thread.20:18
reggnaI'm playing around with my new N900, but does anyone know the default user password? And why can't I change it with passwd?20:18
andre__reggna, default password for what? tried 12345?20:19
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andre__GAN900, want some popcorn too for watching it? :-)20:19
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GAN900andre__, corn allergy, I'll stick with the chips. :P20:20
reggnaandre__: Just found the answer on the wiki, thanks. :)20:20
GAN900andre__, I just don't get people.20:20
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bigbrovarandre__: thanks :)20:21
andre__GAN900: "same here, but I get paid for it" ? :-P20:21
andre__bigbrovar, np20:21
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* Shapeshifter wonders if it's a good idea to edit /etc/X11/xorg.conf on the n900...20:29
Noobmonk3yprob not :) but why not20:30
* AndrewFBlack wonders why its so quiet today20:30
Shapeshifterwell if sshd still starts even if X is kaput it's no problem20:31
Shapeshifterand it should. if this was real linux.20:31
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CorsacShapeshifter: but you might have problems connecting to network without X20:33
Shapeshifterlol... typing "Xorg" on the CLI just for laughs says the usual and after that: "Please consult the Nokia support at" as if that would do any good.20:33
ShapeshifterCorsac: mhh, right.20:33
* Shapeshifter wants to enable the mouse cursor.20:34
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Shapeshifterthere's so much missing on the n900 -.-20:35
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ptlI removed /etc/rc2.d/*ssh and sshd it still starting at the reboot20:37
ptlwhere do I remove it so it doesn't start automatically?20:37
ali1234better pick the package apart20:37
ali1234wait, rc.d?20:38
ali1234remove /etc/init.d/sshd20:38
ptlno, no, I don't want to remove the initialization script for the ssh daemon. Just unconfigure it from starting up.20:39
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ali1234well what i *do* know is that it is launched by the X init, not by the normal runlevel control20:40
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ali1234but as i said, you'll have to pick apart the package to see where it really gets installed20:42
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Stskeepslardman: stop appearing in my facebook :(20:44
andre__I want a lardman too in my Facebook!20:45
* andre__ adds lardman20:45
Shapeshifterhumm humm, lot's of stuff in /usr/share/icons/default/cursors/20:46
lardmanandre__ ;)20:46
ptlsshd is starting from /etc/event.d20:46
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lardmanStskeeps: hey! what's wrong with me! Surely with less exposure on the front page you're happy to see me everyday in facebook!?20:46
Shapeshifterha! and they're all symlinks to transp20:47
VDVsxStskeeps, same here, lolololol20:47
VDVsxnow is wazd :D, heheheh20:47
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* lardman has now done his Facebook visiting for the year20:51
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The_Tall1Hi. I'm flashing a N810 hw 0704. Extracted the image and everthing ran fine until "sudo flasher-3.5 -n initfs.jffs2 -f" now no device is found any more. Any hints?20:53
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Stskeeps -n is for initfs?20:53
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The_Tall1White background with nokia logo and the tool below20:53
The_Tall1Got that from the wiki20:53
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slackmagicare most of you guys using the standard browser with PR 1.1 or firefox? Just trying to get an idea whether I should get firefox myself20:54
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The_Tall1Stskeeps:yes to load the initfs20:54
* haltdef would want firefox - weave :>20:54
haltdefope it can be made to use a custom server though, windows build of fennec only asks for a username and password in the gui20:55
Lumpio-Is firefox still unusably slow?20:55
Lumpio-Weave would be awesome though20:55
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Lumpio-(Althoug having a ginormous history on a phone might also slow it down)20:55
sar3thanyone used dosbox?20:55
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Wild_DoogyAnyone know how to read accelerometer data via python on the N900?20:56
haltdefI agree!20:57
sar3thstupid keyboard setup20:57
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Shapeshifter"mv: cannot stat 'transp': Too many levels of symbolic links" what is this supposed to mean? Trying 'mv mynewpointer transp' in /usr/share/icons/default/cursors20:58
ptlWild_Doogy: it's on the wiki, there are several ways20:59
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Wild_Doogyyay, I have hope. on to the Wiki20:59
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Wild_DoogyThanks again!21:00
The_Tall1Can i safely shut down the device or remove the battery?21:00
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Shapeshifteroh damn21:01
Shapeshifternow it doesn't boot.21:01
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lardmanbbiam, need to get rid of WinXP21:02
* ioeee saluda o/21:02
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ptl:O Shapeshifter21:02
ptlr-d mode then21:02
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javispedrodoes anyone know the story behind fmradio doing "software" audio routing?21:02
javispedroon the N90021:02
Shapeshifterptl: r-d mode? Problem is, I get past puttin in my pin, my boot video shows, and at the end of it the boot process hanged. Now it booted fine.21:03
* javispedro is reading about the audio codec, which seems to have line in -> line out hardware pass through mode like every other sound card.21:03
puzzledI have an N900 and wonder if the email client supports TLS with self signed certificates?21:03
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puzzledjavispedro: I would assume that all sound goes through alsa and/or pulseaudio which both are software components21:05
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javispedropuzzled: yes, that is the current situation -- but why not do that on hw like you'd do on your desktop, specially considering it would save a ton of power, and the audio codec is capable of it.21:07
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javispedrothe only answer I can think of is "it would break the speakers" :)21:07
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puzzledjavispedro: makes sense although I use Fedora 11, 12 & 13 on my desktops and afaik everything goes through alsa/pulse21:08
lardmanjavispedro: yes, it is possible to break the speakers with iirc too much bass21:08
lardmansorry, missed the start of the conversation21:09
javispedrolardman: yes, but I'm just noticing that might be the actual issue.21:09
lardmanyou asking why the bass is not dialled back in the driver rather than using pulse?21:10
javispedroroute the fm radio audio via the analog bypass and watch the speakers crumble and self-destroy under the "bassness" of your average local stations.21:10
Shapeshifterw000t! I got a mouse pointer21:10
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davyghello i still can't film with my n900, since it says me "Operation failure" when i try to, somebody got this problem ?21:10
lardmanah, fm stuff21:10
lardmandavyg: does the camera work for stills?21:10
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Noobmonk3yshapeshifter : a permanent one?21:11
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davyglardman, what ?21:12
lardmancan you take still photos?21:12
ptlok, what is the recipe? what did you do in xorg.conf?21:12
ShapeshifterNoobmonk3y: yes!!! but it's kinda hard to trigger. :| I copied a "real" cursor to /usr/share/icons/default/cursors/transp but after a reboot it still was missing. I googled around and found this from 2007 and it still worked! went to youtube, started a video, clicked on the video, and the cursor appeared :)21:12
sar3thdosbox :|21:12
davyglardman, yes21:12
Noobmonk3yccan you take still pictures with it? ie a camera21:12
Shapeshifterand it's permanent. this is superb. I need to find out an easier way but I love the cursor21:12
Noobmonk3yshapeshifter cool!21:12
Wild_DoogyYay! Python knows which way is down!!! the possibilities are endless!.21:12
javispedrosar3th: what happens with dosbox?21:12
lardmandavyg: what does dmesg show when you see the failure message?21:13
Noobmonk3ylol doogy!21:13
sar3thjavispedro: the keyboard does only work partially21:13
lardmanafter you see the message even21:13
ShapeshifterI can use my damn mouse to steer the n900. how brilliant is this.21:13
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lardmanfood time!21:13
javispedrosar3th:  did you read the readme, or the multiple forum posts about that on
davyglardman, i look at that, i didn't tought to that,21:14
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sar3thjavispedro: well, i couldn't find the readme, and the search function shows many irrelevant hits, so i haven't found the solution yet21:14
javispedrosar3th: "rover.sys" is your keyword here.21:14
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davygit doesn't say a lot of think, no error for sure, active and inactive message about cam_launch end focus21:17
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ShapeshifterNoobmonk3y: nooo, the cursor disappears when I launch openttd :'(21:20
Arif_I found another bug :P21:20
Noobmonk3yawwwwwww sods law!!!21:21
Arif_when holding the left arrow key in the media player21:21
Arif_while playing a song21:21
Arif_it'll skip back from the end of the song21:21
sar3thjavispedro: will there be support for other codepages in rover.sys in the future21:21
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Sceltfrals: reply via SMS could be nice to have in MMS menu! I think that usually people don't need to reply with MMS21:21
javispedrosar3th: other codepages or other layouts?21:21
Arif_and it'll go back to the end and continue skipping back :D21:21
sar3thi mean layouts21:21
javispedroShapeshifter: if you install the maemo sdk I can tell you how to show the mouse in openttd.21:22
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javispedrosar3th: unfortunately, not, since it's just too much work. In the future I plan to use another method.21:23
davygnobody ?21:24
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sar3thhm okay21:24
Shapeshifterjavispedro: mh? I have the sdk installed. why?21:24
sar3ththe game runs almost perfectly, but it's slow :|21:24
sar3thslow motion mode :P21:24
javispedroShapeshifter: cause you have to rebuild openttd to get it to show the mouse pointer; i removed support for it entirely.21:25
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Shapeshifterjavispedro: ahh. what a pity :>21:25
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Shapeshifternah, not now ;) but thanks21:25
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Shapeshifterbut cursors are awesome. Why do people remove them...21:25
Shapeshiftertoo nerdy21:25
javispedro"/* Don't ever draw the mouse for WinCE, as we work with a stylus */21:25
javispedrosame reason :)21:25
Shapeshifterjavispedro: well, if you update openttd next time, why not include mouse support again? :)21:26
ptlhas someone ported extremetuxracer to the N900 yet?21:27
Shapeshifterptl: I saw it in some repo21:28
Shapeshifterptl: but after launching it, the menu was distorted and I couldn't play21:28
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javispedroShapeshifter: because nobody wants a mouse pointer, so I'd have to make it a setting, and more settings is moore work.21:29
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Shapeshifterjavispedro: eeeverybody wants a mouse pointer. they just don't know it yet ;)21:30
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* noobmonk3y wants a mousepointer.... :) honest21:31
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Shapeshifterjavispedro: sooo, what would I need to do in scratchbox to recompile openttd with mouse pointer support?21:32
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javispedroShapeshifter: sb-conf se FREMANTLE_ARMEL, apt-get source openttd, apt-get build-dep openttd, edit openttd-0.7.4/debian/patches/series, remove "hide-cursor" line, cd openttd-0.7.4, dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -uc -us, install resulting openttd .deb package.21:33
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Shapeshifterjavispedro: thanks!21:35
javispedrosometimes I wish there was a more global, elegant solution. All SDL games suffer from this.21:35
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noobmonk3ylol :)21:37
noobmonk3ynice guide though :)21:37
noobmonk3yhmmmmm is there a specific guide to N900 specific terminal commands, or system layout etc?21:38
noobmonk3yi mean i can pull out ip address etc etc etc, but is there a list of it all?21:38
Shapeshifterbut really. for at home this is going to be awesome. I'll need to look into a couple of other things like turning on the screen when going to the n900 with the mouse or the keyboard layout which is a bit weird to get used to when on the desktop. but this all pretty much means that I'll have the laptop on the right, the desktop in the middle, and right below it a tiny n900, all being governed by the same mouse and keyboard :)21:38
FIQanyone into compiling (super)tuxkart?21:39
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javispedrounless it's OpenGL|ES, it's much more than "compiling".21:39
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FIQi'm not much for a developer21:40
Shapeshiftereven the mouse wheel works21:40
sar3thioquake 321:42
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sar3thit works well21:42
Shapeshiftersar3th: how to exit?21:42
sar3thShapeshifter: that's my problem right now XD21:43
sar3threstarting phone now21:43
sar3thi think you need to bind the menu to some key21:43
Shapeshiftersar3th: I hit every possible key combination and the menu showed up21:43
sar3thit didn't show up for me21:44
sar3thon the other hand, i used my pc's config file21:44
sar3thoh, and i had another problem21:44
sar3thi always turned left :|21:44
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Shapeshifterjavispedro: all that worked, except dpkg -i complains: pre-dependency problem: openttd pre-depends on openttd-data (= 0.7.4-1maemo2) openttd-data is installed, but is version 0.7.4-1maemo3. Can I tell apt to just ignore this?21:52
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javispedroShapeshifter: yes, but an appropiate openttd-data has been built for you too :)21:52
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javispedroso installing it will be a more clean solution :)21:53
Shapeshifterjavispedro: oh it has?21:53
javispedroyes, same directory as the .deb you just installed.21:53
Shapeshifterjavispedro: ahh21:53
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Shapeshifterbrilliant. thanks.21:54
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pupnik_on n900 i can get 62 to 36 percent cpu load reduction while playing
SpeedEvilWho did you have to kill/22:19
pupnik_were gonna get that down even further if i can22:20
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SpeedEvilthat's with mplayer?22:20
SpeedEvilat 250MHz?22:20
pupnik_forgot the cpu speed locker cmd22:21
pupnik_cpuinfo says 25022:22
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pupnik_for some reason i have reasonable volume atm22:23
SpeedEvilwatch cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/stats/time_in_state22:23
pupnik_ty!  added an alias for that22:25
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pupnik_it is great seeing one bar in cpumem applet instead of three22:25
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RST38hWho wanted a Microsoft ebook here?22:26
prontowait ebook?22:26
RST38hcehteh: You?22:26
RST38hcehteh: enjoy:
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SpeedEviltime mplayer -ao null -benchmark -endpos 100
SpeedEvilfor me wants 33s of user22:32
SpeedEvilWhich isn't really terrible.22:33
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jacekowskiSpeedEvil: have you tried microwave transformer on it?22:34
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: higher voltage makes it go really fast22:34
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SpeedEvilpupnik_: echo 250000 >/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq22:36
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SpeedEviljacekowski: I am at the moment in the process of overclocking my microwave.22:36
pupnik_yeah but that doesnt measure the PA cpu use22:36
SpeedEvil(well - my mains voltage is 220 - it's persistantly low.22:36
SpeedEvilpupnik_: of course not.22:36
SpeedEvil(and the microwave is rated for 240)22:36
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pupnik_man it is fun seeing how things perform at 250!  can it go lower SpeedEvil ?22:42
SpeedEvilI haven't checked.22:42
SpeedEvilI would suspect so.22:42
SpeedEvilThere may be constraints.22:42
pupnik_feels like n810 :)22:42
SpeedEvilFor example - the display controller may not work at nominal clock at under 250MHz22:43
pupnik_seems like it isnt set up for it22:43
* SpeedEvil opens the 3000 page CPU manual.22:43
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pupnik_now the sound is super quiet again :((22:45
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pupnik_i cant get it up! :(22:48
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* noobmonk3y will be back in a bit22:48
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pupnik_lost all audio :( bbl22:52
LuserN800how do one mount a smb share on a n800?22:54
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ptllook! the chinese N900!
N900evildoes it run meego?23:06
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sar3thptl: "Latest Nokia Style Cellphone"23:06
RST38hRuns MTK firmware no doubt23:07
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N900evilwhy hasn't meego been ported to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!23:08
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RST38hN900: Nobody needs it there?23:08
ali1234meego *will* be ported to it, and all those devices23:09
ali1234might even happen before meego gets ported to the real n90023:09
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pupniki found out how to get full volume with pasuspender SpeedEvil !  you start a normal mpayer then pause it - that "holds it open" f  then a second one can play bypassing PA at fullvol23:10
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N900evilpa with mpalyr idle seems to use cpu here23:11
N900evilpupnik, oh. the clocking is _ridiculous_23:11
N900evilpupnik, well ove 111 pages of the datasheet deal with it.23:12
pupniki got music wif 1 bar cpu and that makes pupnik HAPPY23:12
N900eviljust do wavs :)23:12
pupnikam avoiding full vol though23:13
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pupnikspeaker protextion may be disabled23:16
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pupnikshould be really23:17
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Noobmonk3yanyone clever who can help someone install pulse audio tools?23:21
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N900evilI question if it's speaker protection if it doesn't distort.23:21
Noobmonk3ysquirrel is haing probs here
Noobmonk3yi cant figure it out :(23:22
pupnikok totally sound23:22
pupnikbroke sound23:22
pupnikyou can see a high pass cutoff filter settable in alsamixer23:22
pupnikalsa-utils restart doesnt help23:23
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LuserN800how do one mount a smb share on a n800? with a default samba install on my debian pc, it's not visible in filemanager23:26
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LuserN800but I can connect from another pc23:27
Markus23LuserN800: had enough space on it up to now :-)23:27
Markus23LuserN800: dont know if all kernel modules are in maemo kernel for that?23:27
Markus23the kernel is very minimal23:28
Markus23did not even got NAT working on it23:28
LuserN800kernel is ok. the ui is minimal..23:28
Markus23LuserN800: ok, then you use another kernel then I am using :-)23:28
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Markus23LuserN800: mine does not have jfs, masquerading,..23:29
LuserN800Markus23, the wiki says the latest firmware have support by default23:29
LuserN800Markus23, ouch for masquerading..23:29
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LuserN800I probably could edit fstab but I thought it was possible with the ui23:30
Markus23LuserN800: thanks for tipp with masquerading, in PR1.1?23:30
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Markus23I have tried it with that the last time...23:30
Markus23where did you get that info?23:30
Markus23LuserN800: fstab is rewritten everytime at boot23:31
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* Noobmonk3y grumbles23:36
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* Arif_ throws the N900 media player at Noobmonk3y23:36
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sar3thlol Arif_23:37
sar3thyou broke it23:37
sar3thflac support is not reading my tags now23:37
Arif_it's broken by design23:37
sar3thfix it, now :P23:37
haltdefwhat's wrong with it :o23:38
Arif_I really have the feeling its written in like 2 hours23:38
Arif_I accidentally came accross something stupid today23:38
Arif_play a song and hold the left arrow23:38
Arif_it'll continiously skip back the same song all the time :D23:38
haltdefis it the only video player that can use hardware acceleration like on modern HTC devices under WM?23:39
* haltdef stabs WMP23:39
Arif_and its a terrible player :P23:39
frankS2anyone here have a virtualbox image for maemo?23:40
frankS2I wanna test before buy :D23:40
haltdefnot possible for other players to implement hardware acceleration or has nobody got around to it yet?23:40
Arif_you should get an iPhone :P23:40
Markus23frankS2: you won't get the touch-feeling :-)23:40
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Arif_haltdef, I heard mplayer and VLC are working on it...23:41
haltdefthat's good to know, it just isn't possible on my x1, no documentation on how to use the gpu23:41
haltdefand the cpu is useless for anything23:41
haltdefgood job qualcomm, bastards23:41
Arif_I.....just have no idea how to use it -.-23:42
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* Noobmonk3y blinks.... who throws media palyers!!!23:42
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Arif_all the bugs will eat you23:42
haltdefis vlc and mplayer not really usable atm then or usable just with high cpu usage23:43
Noobmonk3yawwwww.... n900 bug farmer.... lol23:43
haltdefbig reason for me wanting to ditch my x1 is for video playback :P23:43
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Wild_DoogyHey chaps, I may have found a way to make python do a time wait without using 100% cpu to do it. import commands; commands.getoutput("sleep 1")23:44
haltdef480p x264 mkv, <480p xvid avi I want to play mostly, 576p x264 mkv support would be handy but not too important23:44
Arif_if you send me some samples I'll try :P23:44
Noobmonk3yooooo cool :) nice23:44
Arif_XviDs work fine in the built in player23:45
lardmanArif_: what are you talking about re hw acceleration?23:45
Wild_Doogyyou guys are converting .mkvs to play on the N900?23:45
Arif_anything below 800x480 should play with high CPU on MPlayer though23:45
Wild_Doogylet me know how that works23:45
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haltdefhigh cpu but smooth?23:45
lardmananything that uses the gst pipeline will use the hw acceleration23:45
haltdefI was hoping for 720x576 to play :p23:45
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Arif_720x576 plays23:46
Arif_but not smooth23:46
Markus23Wild_Doogy: please use time.sleep() that hurts23:46
haltdefthat's ok, will be rare that I'd want to play those23:46
Wild_DoogyMarkus23: true, but it uses 100% cpu while it "sleeps"23:46
Markus23Wild_Doogy: on n900?23:46
Arif_I hope for fw updates/Moogo to have better codec support and hardware support23:47
Wild_DoogyOn my desktop.... I havent checked N90023:47
haltdefis that something that can be done by the community?23:47
Arif_I don't know :(23:47
Wild_Doogytesting now23:47
lardmanArif_: what acceleration is currently not being used?23:48
haltdefalready miles better than playback on my x1 so far, looking good :p23:48
* Arif_ hopes so though :p23:48
Arif_the video chip is only used by the built in player23:48
Arif_and the built in player is written in 2 hours :p23:49
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Wild_Doogymmmm, this thing gets toasty after a few min @ full burn23:49
Arif_stop using it as cup warmer :P23:49
Wild_Doogy-warms hands using N900-23:50
lardmanArif_: video chip? what sort of hw acceleration do you think it has?23:50
lardmanthough I don't disagree that it looks like it was written in 2 hrs ;)23:50
Arif_the N900 has a hw gpu doesn't it :p23:51
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* Arif_ waits for Mplayer to use them23:52
haltdefnot powerful enough to do more than what the built in media player already does with it or something?23:52
lardmanbut the video acceleration is performed by the IVA part of the DSP23:52
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Wild_DoogyN900evil: several? I didn't know that.23:52
lardmanand the gstreamer pipeline uses the DSP (though there may well be room for improvement), and the media player uses gstreamer23:53
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lardmantherefore, if a media player uses gstreamer, it will have the same hw acceleration caps as the built in player23:53
lardmannow that's not to say that the DSP couldn't be used better and/or that the ARM and DSP codecs couldn't be optimised23:54
haltdefI see23:54
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Wild_DoogyMarkus23: you were correct. time.sleep() does not use 100% on the N900. Now to see what ails my Desktop  >_>23:54
lardmanbut it is wrong to say that it doesn't use hw acceleration, despite looking like someone knocked it up in an afternoon (i.e. that's mainly the gui's fault)23:54
haltdefis the inability to play a video of a higher res than the screen a limitation of software or hardware?23:55
lardmanboth probably23:55
Arif_I mean to say that only the built in player uses HW acceleration23:55
Arif_but doesn't support so many codecs23:55
lardmanthe hw may not be able to decode something of that size, but the limit is probably hardcoded in the DSP codec23:55
haltdefby higher I mean only slightly higher, 720x57623:56
haltdefslightly higher bitrate to support the higher res too :p23:56
lardmanhaltdef: there was probably some spec for the codec, and they hardcoded the limit ;)23:56
Arif_720x576 XviDs play fine23:56
Arif_but x264s don't23:56
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lardmanArif_: well yeah, only some codecs are supported by DSP tasks (i.e. hw accelerated), but other players could use gstreamer to decode those in accelerated form too23:57
lardmanArif_: are both decoded on the dsp?23:57
lardmanwhat does the pipeline look like?23:57
Arif_yeah, that's what I'm hopign to get supported soon23:57
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Arif_don't get too technical :P23:57
* Arif_ is a simple user =)23:57
haltdefis the cpu fast enough to software decode ~2500kbps 576p x264? :P23:58
Arif_haven't tried23:58
Arif_but I doubt it :P23:58
haltdefmy msm72xx device chokes on <480p xvids23:58
haltdefso useless23:58
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Arif_mplayer already has trouble keeping 512k x264 streams audio/video synced23:59
lardmangst also didn't support framedropping iirc, not sure if it does now23:59
haltdefouch, need some optimizations mebbe?23:59

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