IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-03-06

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dreginpupnik: I know the UK region hasn't been given the latest firmware... that's why I want to change my region code :)00:05
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mmarc__Hi guys, after reflashing by N900 cannot play any music and video clips, even ringtones, says "no music", and from file manager no reaction on mp3 track click. Reboot does not help. What might be wrong with it? Thanks.00:05
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SpeedEviltracker is broken for some reason?00:05
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pupnikdregin: i think i have a uk device00:06
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pupnikhas the pound symbol on the z.  got pr1.1 on it00:06
GeneralAntillespupnik, it's global.00:06
GeneralAntillesIf you're talking about the Summit units.00:07
GeneralAntillesUS layout00:07
pupnikah.  what is the problem with uk then?00:07
SpeedEvilpupnik: update is not rolled out to them for some reason00:07
GeneralAntillesNokia UK is stupid00:07
SpeedEvilpupnik: still stuck on pr1.100:07
GeneralAntillesReally goddamn stupid, apparently.00:07
mmarc__please, help, I really wonder what happened to media player. Could I reinstall it?00:07
redmmarc__: you could try reindexing the files00:08
mmarc__red: how?00:08
redtracker-processes --hard-reset in terminal (as a user, not sudo)00:08
redthen when you go and open the media player it will start reindexing everything (images, mp3s, videos)00:08
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redit might take a while depending how much media you have on the device00:08
jebbat-tan: i didnt port anything. i just used the latest git00:08
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redif that does not help, id refer to the forums for more pro help00:09
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Tuxprobehi, im experiencing problems with the package manager - maybe someone could point me to the right direction for a fix00:13
Tuxprobedpkg failed while installing samba-common from maemo-extra-devel with the following:00:13
TuxprobeErrors were encountered while processing:00:14
Tuxprobe /var/cache/apt/archives/samba-common_3.4.3-maemo2_all.deb00:14
TuxprobeE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)00:14
dreginpupnik: yeah, I'm stuck on a fairly old firmware :\00:14
pupnikdo you know what pr1.1.1 bugfix you care-about dregin ?00:15
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t-tanjebba: I see. I guess latest git doesn't contain all patches from the Nokia kernel. porting them could be difficult00:16
pupnikit isnt like "wow it is all cooler"00:16
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dreginhaha not at all.00:17
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dreginI'm just assuming that a newer firmware is more stable and hopefully doesn't tear through battery power like my unit seems to be doing atm.00:18
mmarc__red: it does not help, I even tried to reboot after tracker-processes --hard-reset as user. Still "no songs"00:18
Stskeepsdregin: blame your wifi router usually00:18
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microlithdregin: what version are you on?00:18
redmmarc__: your index might be corrupt00:18
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mmarc__can I delete it fully?00:18
redi think i saw a command for it on the forums the other day when i had a similar problem00:19
redbut hard-reset fixed it for me00:19
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redgo look and don't hold me accountable if something goes wrong :p00:19
[Evan]I want to do a Maemo project through GSoC this summer. I've read the FAQs; I'm ready to get my hands dirty. What should I do now?00:20
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mmarc__red: sure sure, thanks anyway00:21
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pupnikthe sdk vmware image is a good start00:22
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[Evan]Is that the SDK I can download here?
murianithe vmware images I saw were for diablo, not fremantle00:25
murianian ubuntu installation, and then running the GUI SDK installer to get it up and running works fine though00:26
pupnikhmm. my vmware sdk compiles for fremantle00:26
murianiah, nifty00:26
murianiI see it there00:26
murianiah, well if I'd seen that then I probably would have gone that route vs setting up my own VM for it00:27
murianieither way, it works00:27
muriani...except I'm not getting video on the Beagle with the resulting rootfs >_<00:27
murianifollowed the guide on omappedia, but to no avail. It seems to boot, but I've also lost my serial cable so I can't see what it might be bitching about.00:29
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[Evan]I'm on Ubuntu 9.10; which would be the easiest (and quickest) to install the VM image on: QEMU, VMWare, VirtualBox?00:32
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microlithprobably virtualbox00:33
ptlI just flamed the hell out of a anti-N900 troll in an Orkut community. It feels nice!00:33
microlithI hope your points were sane and well reasoned00:33
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Arif_I'm sure they weren't00:34
murianivirtualbox is likely easiest00:34
Arif_ptl, logs!00:34
murianiThat's what I used, also on 9.1000:34
ptlI hope that too, in a flamewar I am not (almost by definition) aware enough to recognize that.00:35
ptlArif_: it's in portuguese, do you want it? I can tell you the URL and such00:35
ptlbut anyways00:35
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Arif_so Portugal doesn't like the N900?00:35
ptlthe guy told me N900 had no way of using HTML5.00:35
ptlI just tried it on Fennec and it worked... well, at least for youtube videos.00:36
Arif_do any other phones?00:36
RST38h"SCP-1543-01 is a catapult with an absurdly far length of range, designed in 16ÁÁ to meet a common need of that time: launching dangerous and potentially reality-altering objects into the sun"00:36
ptlArif_: actually I am in Brazil... I believe Portugal doesn't use Orkut as we use.00:36
ptlArif_: facebook is practically unknown in Brazil, we use Orkut heavily instead.00:36
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Arif_we plant tomatos at facebook00:36
ptlRST38h: reality-altering objects? Where can I buy that?00:37
murianiHTML5 is completely dependent on browser, not so much on the hardware or OS... so if you have a browser (like Fennec) that supports it, then of course you have HTML5 support on the N90000:37
ptland the standard isn't even finished00:37
murianiLarge portions are implemented in Chrome and recent Firefox though.00:38
tripzeroactually, all you need is for something like webkit to support it.  then you can make a qtweb veiw widget in any app you want and do html5 stuff00:38
ptlit was sort of a bogus point, the guy was desperately trying to find defects on the N900...00:38
murianiwhich there are, I'm sure.00:38
Arif_finding defects on the N900 isn't har00:38
ptlbut not the ones he said00:38
murianibut it's such a badass device that we don't particularly care :P00:38
murianiand I don't even have one yet >_<00:39
SpeedEvilThe n900 sucks, you don't want it. Send them all to meeee!00:39
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* Arif_ waits in front of SpeedEvil's mailbox00:39
SpeedEvilIn the UK, we don't generally have mailboxes.00:39
Arif_hey, these have craptastic speakers too!00:39
SpeedEvilThe mail is delivered through the front door.00:39
ptlI was just curious that I found a 6-month-old video on youtube of a guy who build a robot with a N900 playing songs.00:39
ptlI thought that 6 months ago the N900 didn't even exist.00:40
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TomaszDoh it did00:40
Arif_the N900 is old skool tech jo!00:40
ptl*who built00:40
* Arif_ is waiting for the N90100:41
TomaszDmany of us here have it for that long00:41
murianiyeah, it's been around awhile00:41
murianithe platform it's based on even longer00:41
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Arif_and soon it will be abandoned!00:41
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murianiOMAP4's gonna be fun.00:41
Arif_but apparently Moogo will be on the N900...00:42
ptlyeah... at least the unstable versions00:42
Arif_Moomo 5 is unstable too00:42
Arif_won't change much then :D00:42
StskeepsMoomin Five00:42
ptlanyway, I'm so glad with my device that I really don't mind spending more money with the N910 or whatever when it comes out, provided it's still Linux.00:43
ptlMan, I've just come from a Windows Mobile 6.1 phone.00:43
murianiI'll be coming from Android.00:43
Arif_I came from S60v3 FP100:44
ptlI'm dubious about android00:44
pupnikthe important thing is low mickeymouse work ratio for building existing linux packages00:44
murianiheh, I've got an S60v3 phone sitting around as my backup00:44
murianiI forget whihc FP the N95-4 was... I miss that phone hardcore.00:44
ptlI didn't like google's attitude in not sending new diffs to the main kernel and also don't like all the differences that the Android system has from Linux00:44
ptlI like to be able to port linux' applications to my phone.00:45
Arif_ptl, you must use teh java!00:45
ptlI'm not against java00:45
ptlbut it just doesn't feel right to have it as the main language for a mobile...00:45
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Arif_tell RIM that00:46
ptlI've never used a blackberry... So I don't know how well java integrates into them.00:46
Arif_you have a gazillion versions of word, msn, email, radio00:46
Arif_and that's it :P00:46
murianiptl: BB's all java00:47
murianialllll of it00:47
Arif_and they all don't work00:47
ptldoes it run Apache Tomcat? :D00:47
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ptlwell, the N900 *does* run it!
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Hoxzer :o00:49
ptlthese proofs of concept are hilarious00:50
ptlsome may even be practical00:50
Arkenoimy phones *SUDDENLY* consumes ~30Mb traffic somedays. that costs me about $10 in cellular network so i definitely do not like it. Never caught it in action so i do not know what it is :-(00:50
ptlwell, if you port nethogs to the N900, you can find the culprit00:51
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luke-jrjust tcpdump in the bg?00:51
luke-jrwrite a file to RAM if your battery life is good00:51
SpeedEvilArkenoi: you have ~30 gigabytes of storage.00:52
ptlbut tcpdump doesn't identify the process, does it?00:52
SpeedEvilArkenoi: tcpdump everything.00:52
ptlnethogs does00:52
SpeedEvilBut it tells you teh protocol00:52
SpeedEvilif it's connecting to * - then it's doing updates forex00:53
ptlsometimes it may not be sufficient00:53
ptllet me see if I can compile nethogs for the N90000:53
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luke-jrtcpdump *should* identify the process <.<00:57
ptlshould it?00:57
ptlhow? which flag?00:57
ptlArkenoi: I am trying to compile nethogs, maybe it can help you00:57
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mmarc__guys, I've got an issue similar to
mmarc__No any media visible through media player, while tracker-stats does show some pretty correct info and trackerd fails to start both as user and as root. Anybody with this problem? Please, help to resolve!00:58
SpeedEvilalternative to tcpdump is tcpick - which unpacks all connections into files.00:58
luke-jrptl: I mean it would be a good idea00:58
SpeedEvil(though again doesn't give you process IDs)00:58
* n00bmonk3y wakes up00:59
ali1234netstat --program01:00
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ptlcompiled it, optified it01:00
ptlfor armel01:00
SpeedEvilali1234: doesn't help with 'what used 30M this month'01:01
ali1234neither does tcpdump, unless you leave it running all month01:01
ali1234however it will tell you which program is using which connection now01:01
ptlArkenoi: hope it helps you01:01
SpeedEvilali1234: that was what I was suggesting01:02
ptlArkenoi: syntax is 'nethogs <interface>' and has to be ran as root01:02
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ali1234nethogs looks pretty useful01:02
ptlyou may have to install libpcap0.8 first01:03
mmarc__ugh, no info. BAD01:03
pupnikali1234: i cant find any real news on psx4??? development progress01:04
pupnikjust an iphone release with no real info01:04
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ptlreflashing didn't fix this??? damn01:05
Arkenoiptl: thanks!01:06
ptlthe tracker problem of mmarc__01:06
pupnikwhat's your take on things?01:06
mmarc__ptl: actually, I think reflashing CAUSE this problem01:06
ali1234pupnik: no idea01:06
ptlmmarc__: how can that be?01:07
ptlmmarc__: !!!01:07
mmarc__don't know, media files were OK before reflashing01:07
mmarc__and this shit is now after01:07
Arkenoiptl: it asks for libpcap. despite i have wireshark and tcpdump installed, this dependency is unresolved :-(01:07
ptlArkenoi: it's on the tools repository01:08
ptldo you have it?01:08
pupnikArif_: i figured if anyone here could get some scoop you could :(01:09
pupnikoops sorry mistab01:09
* mmarc__ not sure if to try reflashing one more time01:09
* Arif_ didn't do anything01:09
ptlmmarc__: maybe erasing every data and reflashing, because reflashing by itself doesn't purge your data01:10
ptlArkenoi: well, then apt-get install libpcap0.801:10
ptlthen install nethogs!01:10
mmarc__the problem is that indexing seems to be fine, since stats look correct, while tracker daemon fails itself01:11
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microlithneed to port iftop01:11
mmarc__in cannot even play ringtones, that are built-in!01:11
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Arkenoiptl: seems to work, will try it now01:12
pupniki would love if in microb disabled flash objects could be clicked to activate01:12
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tank-manpupnik, isnt that what flashblock does?01:13
* n00bmonk3y yawns01:15
ali1234pupnik: me? get a scoop?01:15
Arkenoiptl: i do not see totals, only current bandwidh consumption :-(01:15
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pupnikali1234: well you understand the thing better than the rest of us01:17
ali1234ha ha01:17
ali1234i really doubt that01:17
pupniktank-man: in microb addons i see no flash-block.  just global flash disablable01:18
embeddedIs it possible to run directly osso-xterm in full screen mode, maybe with param?01:19
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ArkenoiÁh, m key does the trick01:19
embeddedArkenoi: are you telling to me?01:22
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* GeneralAntilles WTF?'s at
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n00bmonk3ythats just cheered me up lol01:27
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* Arif_ is browsing for new headphones01:28
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pupnikavoid Ultimate Ears01:30
type_tavoid deafness dont use them.01:30
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murianiI like my Sennheiser earbuds01:31
ptlArkenoi: hi again, sorry, I was eating. Yes, the idea is that you let it running and at some time, the process that consumes too much will show up in the stats01:31
murianilittle cheapo $30 pair01:31
murianirocks my socks for the price.01:31
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pupniki was an idiot to go to head-fi forums01:31
murianiArif_: what price/quality range are you looking at01:33
Arif_something €50 or lower01:33
Arif_or somewhat higher :P01:33
ptlhow do I solve my problem with greasy fingers? I have to keep cleaning my N900 screen!01:33
ptlMy skin is oily01:33
Arif_wash your hands01:33
murianisame with mine01:33
ptlI do01:33
murianipart of the problem is that I run my fingers through my hair a lot01:34
Arif_I had Soundmagic PL-5001:34
murianiI'm always cleaning my screen01:34
Arif_but I broke them :D01:34
Arif_I'm thinking of buying these next...01:34
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murianiah, the soundmagic kinda remind me of the old Koss earplug-style01:35
murianiexcept better, likely01:35
Arif_I didn't like them too much01:36
Arif_they fitted weird :p01:36
murianiI'm not liking the look of them, myself01:36
murianiI'd say take a gander an Sennheiser's offering in that range.01:36
Arif_what do you think of the NuForce01:36
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murianinever heard of them01:36
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Arif_I had Sennheiser CX400s01:36
Arif_but they weren't really loud01:37
murianithose look about like my Senns01:37
Arkenoimy ears are even more greasy than fingers01:37
murianiif you have good isolation, you shouldn't need loud.01:37
Arif_I have the problem that my ears are kinda big01:37
Arif_and that I can hear the surroundings easily :D01:37
murianiI had the CX300s01:38
murianithose fuckers nearly blew my eardrums a couple times01:38
murianithat shit HURT01:38
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Arif_but I used them with the N95 8GB01:38
Arif_maybe that's why01:38
murianisource makes a difference01:38
murianithis was in the ipod01:38
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wolf^Arif_, ne-6 look exactly like pl1101:39
Arif_I have the habbit of breaking my earphones every half year or so :)01:39
murianiI hadn't turned the volume down from when I had it in the car, so it was cranked nearly all the way up01:39
murianiyou could hear the audio clearly from the earbuds while they were sitting on the desk.01:39
murianiPlenty loud for me.01:39
murianiI'd get another pair to replace mine that went through the laundry, but my shop is sold out atm :(01:39
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* Arif_ is looking for reviews to find something bassy :)01:40
murianiah, there we diverge.01:41
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murianiI like bass, but not so much01:41
murianimy Senn HD500s were a little too bassy for my taste.01:41
murianimy HD260s are a little better about that01:42
GeneralAntillesMmm . . . fish01:42
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pupniki like not going deaf at 42 yes old01:46
Arif_oh wow01:47
Arif_1200 USD earphones!01:47
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murianiyeah, they get expensive01:47
ptlI love this word -- histrionic01:48
ptlit is guaranteed to worsen the discussion in a flamewar.01:48
ptlvitriolic is also a nice word.01:49
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pupnikhysterical is nice, particularly to annoy certain genders01:50
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Owenon the train   xchat01:51
ptlmicrolith: it means something like too emotional, exaggerated01:52
ptlpupnik: yeah! good word too.01:52
Owenis cool01:52
ptlPMS ftw01:52
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Owentwo lesbians getting off   you wanted to know that01:53
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Owenon topic   ordered a couple of the laser cut stands01:54
ptlwhich ones?01:54
Owenlilly allen and lady gaga01:54
Owenadvertised on maemo.org01:55
Owenlooks really nice01:55
Owenone black  one clear acyllic01:55
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Owen15USD a pair01:56
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Arkenoiptl: oops, seems that process vanishes from the table as soon as it terminates. is it possible to keep it there>01:57
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tremnite all, sweet dreams01:59
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realitygapsanyone managed to clone n900 to sd and boot?02:33
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SpeedEvilI cloned my n900, but there was a fly in the chamber too, and I had to kill it.02:34
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zashSpeedEvil: What have you done!?02:36
pupnikrealitygaps: i think Stskeeps knows but he hasnt come of his basement for weeks02:36
pupnikjust tells me to slip a sucer of milk with rum under the door02:37
realitygapspupnik, thx. do you think the n900 would take ota updates off the SD also?02:37
pupnikactually it would be fun to get the sdk stuff onto mmc102:38
ds3GA: what's going on with those deletions you pointed out?02:38
GeneralAntillesds3, I don't have a clue. :D02:38
ds3GA: oh... I seem to recall that page you pointed to had instructions on sharing the DUN not completely exporting it02:39
ds3but it is all gone :(02:39
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Arif_I see the channel is filled with weird talk again02:43
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ShadowJKAhh, it's so much more fun to hack on something you have no clue about03:30
* SpeedEvil passes ShadowJK a broken steam sewing machine.03:30
ShadowJKmy attempt at analying ftd logs on N800 to get an estimate on the battery's internal resistance gave as reliable results as throwing a dice would have :)03:30
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - the intermal measurements seem odd.03:32
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I half-rigged up an external sensor thing - but it diddn't work well. rebuilding it now.03:32
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ShadowJKbut hey, if I ignore all the results that I don't like, and arbitrarily keep the ones I like, I get a nice number03:33
shamusyah seams that most batery meaters in any devise are not that acureat03:34
SpeedEvilgoogle impedence spectroscopy03:34
ShadowJKoh come on, if I read about it I'll have no fun knowing i'm doomed03:35
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* shamus has taken to ignoring the batery meater on his n80003:36
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SpeedEvilThe impedence of the battery - new - is well under 0.3 ohms.03:37
ShadowJKthe battery management system on N800 has a field for it, claiming 180mohm, iirc03:38
ShadowJK160 on n81003:39
ShadowJKit's never ever updated though03:39
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SpeedEvil160 is quite believable.03:39
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SpeedEvilFor a fresh battery.03:39
SpeedEvilAfter a year, that's going to double03:39
SpeedEviltypically at least03:40
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shamuswhere dose one find that info?03:40
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ShadowJKmy attempt at measuring it wasn't that successful03:41
ShadowJKI mostly get the sign right, 60% of the time ;-)03:41
SpeedEvilshamus: the easy way is to hook it up to a battery analyser03:41
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: Take a load. Apply it, wait, measure volts, turn it off, wait, measure volts. Repeat 50*03:42
viszf me sideways03:42
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, yep03:42
shamusyah not sure if the bat is new or not as i got the n800 oem and well no way of knowing if they replaced the batery or not03:42
viszdropped my n900 to toilet bowl03:42
SpeedEvilShadowJK: the flashlight LEDs might be suitable - for example. Or turn the backlight from brightness 0 to 25503:42
SpeedEvilvisz: remove battery03:42
viszi did03:42
SpeedEvilvisz: clean toilet bowl?03:43
ShadowJKwhat leds, N800 has no Leds03:43
viszluckily, yeah =)03:43
shamusn800 has an led03:43
ShadowJKI'm not touching N900, there's no (known) way to access the sensors there03:43
SpeedEvilvisz: Place in oven at 60C for a day03:43
visznow it's 10 hours later and the power button does nothing03:43
viszgood idea03:43
shamusbut dilblo dose not like letign the led work03:43
SpeedEvilvisz: do not try to power it up - keeping the battery in for more than moments is a bad plan.03:43
SpeedEvilvisz: :/03:44
ShadowJKanyway, media player streaming over wlan is like 400mA load.. switch it off and plug in charger, and it's a 1200mA differential03:44
shamusyep ass soon as an electron device hits the water you want to rush it to a place to remover the bat and let it air dry03:44
* shamus has saved an only phone from death by water damager befor03:45
SpeedEvilvisz: generally my procedure with electronics is to remvoe power ASAP, then possibly dissasemble, wash in hot soapy water, rinse in hot distilled water, then dry in air at 60-80C for a couple of days. If the water is clean, you may get away with not dissasembling if you dry it for a long time03:45
visztoo bad i didn't get the operators insurance for that03:45
ShadowJKI found this energizer paper on internal resistance03:47
ShadowJKIt uses a 100ms pulse of high load03:47
* ShadowJK is mostly doing 1-minute "pulses"...03:47
crashanddievisz: just remove the battery, leave it on a heater or in front of the airconditioning (anything which will remove humidity), oven only if you can leave the door open03:47
viszi left it in sauna03:48
viszwith low heat03:48
shamusbut in general the longer you leave power conected the higher the risk of further damage03:48
viszmy 6110 navigator survived similar accident03:48
viszbut i don't think this one will make it03:49
shamusyes well you got lucky03:49
viszjust need to get my work to buy me a new one03:49
crashanddievisz: sauna is *not* a good idea03:49
crashanddievisz: way too much humidity03:49
viszyes it is03:49
viszno it's not03:49
viszfinnish sauna03:49
SpeedEviloops - yeah. Gas oven is bad.03:49
ptlmobile phones should reproduce, so natural selection would act on them and make them more sturdy for cases like that.03:49
shamusmost devices dont like the water03:49
viszthere's no humidity until you pour water on the stove03:49
viszptl, =)03:50
crashanddievisz: I thought the whole point of a sauna was to retain humidity?03:51
crashanddievisz: anyway, your call03:51
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ShadowJKIt's finnish sauna he's talking about. The point about finnish sauna is torture03:52
crashanddieShadowJK: lul03:52
ShadowJKIn the Sauna bathing championships they use 110C temperature :-)03:53
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ptldo the champions win by evaporating?03:55
ShadowJKthe last one to leave wins03:56
viszi prefer a bit milder temperatures03:56
visz75C is nice03:56
SpeedEvilShadowJK: Leave alive, or leave?03:56
ptlto leave alive, you mean. 110⁰C cooks a man.03:57
SpeedEvilOver the short term - you can take a lot of heat.03:57
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, I don't think there's been anyone yet with enough determination to stay until death03:57
SpeedEvilYou would die if you're in a bath at 45C for a long time.03:57
SpeedEvilBut for short periods, it can be nice.03:58
ShadowJKApparently some do stay long enough to get burns03:58
SpeedEvilHeating up ~100kg of human takes a lot of energy.03:58
ptlwhen they realize they're in danger of death it might be too late for them too leave - they might be weak03:58
ds3Hmmm there sure is a lot of different opinions on what plans will work with the N900 on TMO03:58
SpeedEvilds3: where are you?03:58
ds3SpeedEvil: US03:59
ShadowJKptl, I'm sure they'd pull them out when they stop screaming :-)03:59
ptlwhat's TMO?03:59
ds3some folks say TMO might block based on IMEI and others says it may just work and yet there is another post on internet3 users not working03:59
ds3TMO == Tmobile03:59
ShadowJKor talk.maemo.org04:00
ds3Deuteche Telecom's (sp) mobile phone name04:00
ds3I hope won't have the ability to block by IMEI ;)04:00
ShadowJKKeep in mind that t-mobile in US is different from t-mobile in UK is different from t-mobile in Germany04:01
ds3most of the posts are from the US side04:01
* crashanddie wishes for people to learn how to debate04:02
crashanddieinstead of just going constantly "I didn't say that", "I didn't say that", "I didn't say that"04:03
SpeedEvilI diddn't say that.04:03
crashanddieSpeedEvil: very predictable04:03
ptlI didn't say that I didn't say that04:04
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Hoxzermy tactics are following when it comes to debating: if sure about something -> say the thing -> if he doesn't believe -> grab n900 and google it. If not sure you can be like "Ooh is  it so =)"04:05
Hoxzerbut usually nto all subjects have a clear yes-no answer04:06
ptlI find this US habit of buying phones tied to operators very unsettling, I'd never permit myself to be bossed by some corporation while paying to them.04:06
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Hoxzerptl: it kills the competition. When those deals to sell phone+connection as a same package became legal in finland the prices simply stopped dropping04:08
SpeedEvilThe market in the UK could be a lot worse.04:09
SpeedEvilYou - as a private individual - simply can't get the same rate as a phone shop who signs you up as a new customer, and uses the kickback from the network to subsidise your phone.04:10
SpeedEvilOTOH - there are mostly-sane PAYG deals.04:10
SpeedEvilpay as you go04:10
ptlfreedom is expensive.04:11
pupnikwhat happened to wimax in usa?04:12
pupnikprobably the regional govt fiefdoms got in the way04:13
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SpeedEvilwimax is not magic.04:15
ds3are there PAYG data outside of europe?04:15
SpeedEvilUnless you have tight control of bandwidth, it will get killed by those abusing it.04:15
SpeedEvilThink of wireless not like the internet, but one big 10base-t network.04:16
Arkenoisome local users (here in Russia) got up to 2Tb monthly04:20
Arkenoimostly torrents and shit04:20
Arkenoidon't know why does anyone need such huge traffic04:20
Arkenoiseems to be extreme case of digital hoarding04:21
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crashanddieanyone in Australia have recommendations for a 3g contract?04:45
crashanddieand does tethering work with the N900?04:50
crashanddie(I realise I never asked myself those questions)04:50
ali1234tethering works over USB, didn' try anything else04:51
ali1234i think someone got it working over bluetooth DUN04:51
crashanddienha, 3g + bluetooth would kill the battery anyway04:55
crashanddieI'm actually wondering if a dual sim contract wouldn't be more interesting04:56
crashanddieone for a usb dongle and one for the n90004:56
pupnikpleeze upgrade python-pygame from  1.8.1release-0maemo3  to 1.9 !  kthxbai!05:00
RST38hWithin moments the room had filled with kittens and they began to exert massive pressures on the surrounding doors before breaking through and began to fill SiteÁÁ.05:01
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pupnik:D  :D ..  :D05:09
crashanddie"I'm confused, I'm a pro with Windows but Linux is hard"05:10
crashanddie--tmo user, 6th March 201005:11
Hydroxideit's true enough while still being funny - certainly I'm more convinced at the ability of a professional linux sysadmin to master professional windows sysadmin stuff than the reverse situation, speaking generally of course and realizing that exceptions exist05:16
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GeneralAntillesCultural thing05:19
GeneralAntillesPlus, who the hell uses only Linux from the get-go?05:19
RST38hwhy not?05:20
pupniki wouldnt want to drive a car in london if i could avoid it05:21
HydroxideGeneralAntilles: if you are only looking at professional sysadminning and not personal use, many people. if you look at personal use, it's less common, but interestingly people who learn Linux as their first OS sometimes find it easier than windows, and are quite comfortable with the command line.05:21
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jebbai use only linux :)05:34
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jo-erlendHow do I delete all contacts that are imported from a sim-card? I lent my n900 to a friend tonight, and I had to import all his contacts in order to look them up, but I'm really not interested in his contacts.05:35
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digitusjo-erlend kill
digitusjo-erlend kill
digitusjo-erlend pacote
digitusbots lag
jo-erlendI see.. What made you think I'm an oper on that network? :)05:38
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ptlthis is a brazilian IRC network05:40
ptlwhat does it have to do with freenode or maemo at all?05:40
ptlpacote means to nuke, to make unavailable05:41
ptlit seems he's confusing you with a bot and trying to make you initiate a DDoS to
digitusyou know of someone who lag in the networks?05:41
ptlsomeone must have passed some kind of fake instructions for him to do it.05:41
ptldigitus: what's that all about?05:42
digituswanted in a network lag05:43
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digitusqueria da pacotes com shell05:45
digituswanted the package with shell05:45
ptlthis is not the place05:45
ptldigitus: por favor, nao aqui nessa rede. Aqui na freenode nao tem isso, e e' proibido.05:46
ptl(sorry, people, for the portuguese)05:46
digitusspeaks Portuguese05:46
ptlYes. I do.05:47
ptlWe can't speak portuguese on this channel.. and this is about maemo, not nukes05:49
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digituswhy can not speak Portuguese? .. and on the nukes were playing so05:50
ptlbecause this channel is an international channel, as far as I understand it.05:51
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digitusthey speak English .. your name?05:54
jo-erlendHow do I delete all contacts that are imported from a sim-card? I lent my n900 to a friend tonight, and I had to import all his contacts in order to look them up, but I'm really not interested in his contacts.05:57
lcukjo-erlend, click on the delete contacts menu06:00
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jo-erlendand then manually select each and every one?06:01
jo-erlendthat'll take forever...06:01
lcukits not exactly a common use case06:01
jo-erlendno, but they have to be stored somewhere?06:02
lcuksince you have been asking us for 25 minutes at least , ibet in that time you could have tap tap tapped your way through easily 100006:03
jo-erlendright, but I still like to know how stuff works.06:03
jo-erlendand I haven't asked for twenty minutes. I've asked twice because digitus made such a lot of fuzz about lag on another network.06:04
ali1234i kind of doubt that once you've imported them you'd be able to figure out where they came from06:05
lcuki dunno where the database s ot what format its in unfortunately06:05
lcukis or06:05
* lcuk sleeps anyway06:06
jo-erlendthat's not really necessary, I wanted to delete all contacts that weren't from mail or xmpp.06:06
ali1234may be possible then06:06
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jo-erlendlcuk, thanks anyway. That function actually made it a small process.06:06
ptlit is within a sqlite database, I think.... evolution contacts or something06:07
ptlthere's some stuff about it on, if you google for it you'll find06:07
jo-erlendoh! Is it stored within e-d-s?06:07
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jo-erlendthat does make sense, come to think of it. In that case, it's a piece of cake. :)06:08
jo-erlendperfect solution; I got the GUI-way and the CLI-way at once. Perfect. Thanks to you both. :)06:10
ptljo-erlend: yw, sorry to take long to respond06:15
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LiraNunain N900, is it possible to browse the web vertically?06:37
tank-man"if you build it, ..."06:38
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tank-manon n800/n810, you can06:38
tank-mani don't know about n90006:38
LiraNunathere are videos showing how to do that06:41
LiraNunaerr, that it is possible*06:41
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SpeedEvilit is not a supported feature06:42
LiraNunaSpeedEvil, will it ever be?06:43
SpeedEvilI was earlier using firefox in the debian chroot, rotated 90 degrees.06:43
SpeedEvilBut that's even less of a supported feature :)06:43
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slackmagichow do i check if fm transmitter is disabled/enabled? for some odd reason, no matter what I do, fm transmitter doesn't seem to want to work for me.07:18
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AntiXpucTLiraNuna, [07:37:59] <LiraNuna>  in N900, is it possible to browse the web vertically?07:24
AntiXpucTyes, is it07:24
LiraNunahow? I only saw videos that said it's a bug07:24
AntiXpucTpress "ctrl+shift+o"07:24
AntiXpucTand restart browser07:24
AntiXpucTs/yes, is it/yes, it is/07:25
GeneralAntillesClose the keyboard, switch to portrait.07:27
LiraNunaam I being toyed with07:27
GeneralAntilles. . .07:28
LiraNunaoh my it works07:28
LiraNunawhy the weird keyboard shortcut?07:29
GeneralAntillesBecause it's not yet officially supported.07:29
GeneralAntillesStill buggy07:29
LiraNunadoes that mean it would be made official?07:29
AntiXpucTbtw, i think, that it shouldn't change orientation, like it did it now. It should did somwthgink like xrandr -o {left,right,normal,inverted}07:31
AntiXpucTand turn screen in that way, as you turn device ;)07:31
GeneralAntillesThat doesn't sound completely obnoxious or anything.07:32
ProteousI disliked the rotation on my n97, it always seemed to rotate when you didn't want it too07:32
Proteoushold it at a slightly wrong angle and look, you get to wait for it to rotate between horz and vert07:33
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Proteousand it's not instant07:33
AntiXpucTtry xrandr on linux desktop07:33
AntiXpucTit is mostly instant ;)07:33
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GeneralAntillesAntiXpucT, a mobile device is not a desktop.07:34
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SpeedEvil the rotatio n may be instant.07:35
SpeedEvilThe applications repainting generally isn't.07:35
AntiXpucTit using X server like a desktop. And xrandr should work perfectly ;)07:35
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SpeedEvilxrandr works.07:35
SpeedEvilThe applications - many of them - do not support the other aspect ratio.07:36
SpeedEvilEither at all, or well, depending on the app.07:36
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ds3speaking of randr, is the S-Video out consider another screen or is it just aa mirror of the LCD?07:39
SpeedEvilit's another screen07:39
SpeedEvilcan have completely different content on it07:39
GeneralAntillesAnybody used it as such yet?07:39
ds3howhard is it tosend media player output to it?07:40
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GeneralAntillesds3, pretty easy if you don't mind the mirroring setup out of the box. ;)07:40
ds3so by default, it is a mirror07:40
ds3GA: pulled the trigger on the 900 so I am gathering info on how to customize it while i wait07:41
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: lcuk did07:42
GeneralAntillesds3, lol, congrats. ;)07:46
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AntiXpucTbtw... now i've Qt4.5.3 & Qt4.6.2 both installed on my n900 (libqt4-* in /usr/lib/qt4 (4.5.3) and libqt4-maemo5-* in /opt (4.6.2)). Is it any way to uninstall 4.5.3, but don't uninstall all software, that using it (some metapackages, packages with symlink to /opt/qt4-maemo, etc)?07:48
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slackmagicarggh! I can't believe it, been trying to get this fm transmitting thing to work for hours and something's just not right. It's not disabled, firmware latest (US version), everything on the device itself seems to do its job, but when it comes to 3 diff cars and 3 diff radios, none of them would pick up any signal. any advice?07:52
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shamuspick a less bussy frequency?07:54
slackmagicfmtx_client shows all info correctly and that it's disabled/enabled (whenever i turn it off / on) and man, i'm lost here. would have thought it was as easy as turning it on/off07:54
slackmagicshamus, tried them all, lowest up to highest07:54
shamus;acks a fm transmiter in his n80007:55
shamusso was a guess07:55
slackmagicshamus: it's a good guess, that's usually the problem with fm transmitters since there are so many stations out there, but that unfortunately isn't the reason07:56
shamusalltho my reciver is super senstive. far more sensitve then some radios07:56
shamusmaby your antena is not conected?07:57
shamusmaby ituses the head phones as and antena07:57
slackmagicshamus: tried in 3 different vehicles and 3 different standalone radios07:57
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shamusi know i cant recive shit if i do not have my head phones pluged in07:58
shamusas it uses them as it's antena07:58
shamusmaby it uses them as the transmiting antena as well?07:59
slackmagicbased on all the youtube vids etc, no cable/fake antenna is required for this to work07:59
AntiXpucTit says "i can't working if any cable plugged in"07:59
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shamusmaby it's a hardwhere issue08:00
AntiXpucTbtw, i get signal from n900 only on distance <=30cm.08:01
slackmagicAntiXpucT: you might want to search for fm-boost to increase the strength of signal to like 118 i believe, should give you 2-3m then08:02
AntiXpucTi increase it to 12008:02
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slackmagicAntiXpucT: ah, ok. even better :), but at least yours is working. Mine doesn't transmit crap08:02
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GeneralAntillesshamus, no.08:10
ds3anyone know what is the story with IR on the N900? seems some places say there is none, others say it is receive only, and so forth?08:10
GeneralAntillesshamus, the 3.5mm jack is the antenna for FM RX.08:10
GeneralAntillesshamus, the FM TX uses an internal antenna.08:10
GeneralAntillesds3, TX only as far as I'm aware.08:11
ds3GA: what was/is it intended for?08:11
GeneralAntillesds3, CIR08:11
GeneralAntillesPresumably TV control and such08:11
ds3Ohhhh okay08:11
ds3does it come with remote software?08:12
GeneralAntillesSomebody put together a camera shutter remote too.08:12
ds3or even a LiRC driver/support?08:12
SpeedEvillirc, yes08:12
GeneralAntillesNo, but irreco's in Extras and lirc works great.08:12
ds3so one could record an IR remote on a PC and have the N900 play it back?08:13
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GeneralAntillesIt also includes a lot of remotes profiles, too.08:13
ds3"It"? eh? didn't you just say it doesn't come with remote software?08:13
GeneralAntillesirreco, sorry.08:13
shamusthe repositories are your friend08:14
ds3oh okay08:14
ds3that explains the range of descriptions08:15
ds3what about armour^H^H^H^H^H^H hard cases? does anyone make one yet?08:15
CutMeOwnThroatdiamond... accept no substitutes08:17
CutMeOwnThroattakes a while to grow an artificial diamond into the correct shape, though08:17
shamusoh speaking of fm rx is it posable to prevent it from disabling the internal speakers when the headphones are pluged in08:18
CutMeOwnThroatand... if you have to ask what it costs, you can't afford it08:18
crashanddieCutMeOwnThroat: how about you take that whole top-of-the-world act and take it outside?08:19
CutMeOwnThroattop-of-the-world? but it's flat!08:20
SpeedEvildiamond would not be a great case.08:20
SpeedEvilIt may shatter08:20
GeneralAntillesshamus, toggle the setting in the menu?08:20
crashanddieo/ GeneralAntilles08:20
GeneralAntillesHowdy, crashanddie.08:20
shamushas a n80008:20
shamushas yet to find such a seting in the menu08:21
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crashanddieshamus: are talking in third person on purpose?08:21
GeneralAntillesshamus, ah, well, download pycage's FM Radio application.08:22
shamusoops sorry abotu talkign in 3rd persion08:22
ljpthe menu scrolls08:23
shamuswas rp ing in another room08:23
shamusand frogot to switch tence08:23
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crashanddiethey accept badly spelt English?08:25
shamusyah well when you play sl for to long you pick up on typonease08:26
ds3hmmm not much in the way of cases I see08:27
shamusmy typing is almost as bad as my handwrighting08:27
crashanddieshamus: take your time to write, you have a full keyboard. Make an effort, it's a sign of respect towards those you converse with08:28
CutMeOwnThroatSpeedEvil, not eavilly err, easily... it's not very elastic, but having 4 carbon bonds/atom makes it extremely tough at least you can press them in many softer things: - I'm actually curious how such an object, i.e. case would really behave :)08:29
shamusfunny thing is my typing is better on the tuch screen. as yah have to slow down and type letter by letter08:29
crashanddieCutMeOwnThroat: thoughness isn't the issue. I'd rather go with a titanium case than diamond, to be honest08:31
* shamus needs to slow down somtimes and read what is writen befor hitign enter08:31
CutMeOwnThroatcrashanddie, maybe... admittedly a micrometer thick diamond-coating on the teeth would be more useful :)08:32
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crashanddieCutMeOwnThroat: you have some weird fetishes08:33
CutMeOwnThroat"no more holes" is a fetish?08:33
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CutMeOwnThroatanyway, some day growing them artificially will become really cheap - after all it's just carbon08:35
Proteousit's a fetish when superglue is involved08:36
CutMeOwnThroatmemo to self: never google that08:37
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CutMeOwnThroatwell, only the other day...08:37
CutMeOwnThroatbut I'll mercifully shut up about it08:37
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kaie|cebithello. I'm going to cebit and to use my n810 for demoing. What's a quick way to reset my device to factory defaults?09:38
shamusreflash it?09:39
kaie|cebitthought I could do without lowlevel stuff. but I guess I can simply clear all my personal data in the browser09:41
shamusohh you simply want to clear your history?09:42
shamusa reflash is not that hard and is a sure fire way to get back to square 109:42
shamusaltho yah better have a backup09:43
shamusand rember allways aplay one of the stock theams09:43
kaie|cebityes, made a backup. don't want to reflash. I tought there might be a hidden code like there is *7370# for nokia phones09:43
shamusbefor backign up09:43
kaie|cebitthanks for your advice. I didn't tweak themes. I'll demo fennec09:44
shamusbut yah there is not reset to stock bution that i know of09:44
shamusthe reset to stock is hooking up usb and reinstaligj the os09:45
shamusit purges all your apps ect09:45
kaie|cebitok thanks!09:45
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DocScrutinizercehteh: sorry, you've been right with integrated FM-RX/BT10:21
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KhertanHi !10:32
Khertanapt-worker: Ignoring version from wrong domain < why ????? (HAM Log)10:33
Khertanwhy i got this error10:33
Stskeepswhat are you trying to do? :P10:37
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Khertanto update a packages which is available in extras10:40
Khertanwith my own repository10:41
Khertanwith the more recent one available in my own repository10:41
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cehtehmaybe your QA failed10:43
* cehteh runs10:43
KhertanQA ?10:43
Khertanso two solution if understand modify a fucking file to force my repo to be the master one ...10:49
Khertanor ask for trmove of my all package in all maemo repository10:49
Stskeepslatter one won't help10:50
Stskeepscos then your users who has your app still won't be able to update :P10:50
Khertanhum ... yep true10:50
Stskeepsi don't see what your gripe with QA is - if you constantly need bugfixes or updates, there is probably a good reason to run through QA to help you find more and then the final result in Extras will be good10:51
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* n00bmonk3y feels a bit tender.....10:51
n00bmonk3ygrrrr pulse-audio smells :(10:54
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n00bmonk3yanyone know why adding pulseaudio-utils as a dependency doesnt work? - autobuilder thinks it is fine... But doesnt install it.... :(10:57
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ptlwhat does the word 'maemo' mean? And 'meego'?11:03
n00bmonk3yi like the indonesian example said in the forums11:05
n00bmonk3ysounds a bit like mi goreng - fried noodles11:05
n00bmonk3yi'm sticking by that 1 :D11:05
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KhertanThx stskeeps but my decision is clear ...11:09
Khertanbye ... today the work is to refince electrical board in my house :)11:10
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n00bmonk3ysounds fun!11:10
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n00bmonk3yso no-one else awake who has had pulse-audio issues? :(11:27
n00bmonk3y(Specifically as dependency)11:27
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FIQin xterm, if a prompt is showing12:03
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FIQxterm seems to abort whatever you answer12:03
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FIQor am I doing something wrong?12:06
n00bmonk3ythat is random12:07
n00bmonk3yis it running out of disk space, or saving it to an invalid place?12:07
n00bmonk3yhmm have you tried a capital Y?12:08
n00bmonk3yit does seem to be asking for one12:08
n00bmonk3ywhich is also random12:08
FIQi've do it before, think i failed then12:08
FIQcan try again12:08
FIQnope, failed again12:08
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n00bmonk3ybeing in home/user isnt going to affect it? - or possibly permissions issues... but sorry really not sure12:09
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FIQthe space isn't a problem, df -h says i've 1.6G free for applications (and 45M free on root if the package wouldn't be optified, but J'm sure it is)12:11
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FIQhm, guess i'll have to do it through package manager, even if doing it in xterm is easier12:12
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n00bmonk3ysounds very odd :(12:14
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FIQwould filing a bug report help, or is it just me that seems to have this problem?12:16
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dreginWon't know until you try :)12:18
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* dregin tries to re-produce12:19
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dregindo ya not have to be in a root shell to install packages using apt-get??12:19
dreginI thought apt-get usually complained straight away otherwise12:20
FIQit does12:20
dregin/home/user # apt-get install koffice12:20
FIQbut i enabled root12:20
dreginhow did you enable root?12:21
dreginadd user to a specific group?12:21
n00bmonk3ysuo gainroot ? :D12:21
n00bmonk3yomfg i can't type12:21
FIQsudo gainroot is correct12:22
dreginit's not aborting for me when I use a lower-case y12:22
FIQ(but you obv need to have rootsh installed too)12:22
n00bmonk3yyup odd :(12:24
dregintry it with -y to see if intstalls then?12:24
FIQthat worked. o_o12:28
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dreginstill though12:29
dreginseems like an issue...12:29
dreginanything at /var/log/dpkg.log?12:30
FIQi can check when the install is done12:30
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dreginis it possible to have my last few emails displayed on the desktop on the N900?12:32
FIQcat: can't open '/var/log/dpkg.log': No such file or directory12:32
dreginah k12:32
dreginsame here12:32
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dreginthought it may hahve given you something in the circumstances12:32
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pupnik_N900 van13:00
pupnik_N900 can't handle vimeo video :(13:00
pupnik_thank goodnes i can copy the .flv out of temp dir now for later gapless playback in mplayer13:01
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* n00bmonk3y blinks13:09
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arachnistpupnik_: that just proves that flash sucks for not using native system libraries for video decoding13:11
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TriztI have played flv files with the native player, the only problem is that it don't list those files, you need to access the file from the file browser and it will use the default media player to play it13:14
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FIQ*523 other says "hi"*13:17
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n00bmonk3ymeh meh meh13:19
* n00bmonk3y grumbles13:20
wndFIQ, you (probably) could have just pressed enter. capital letter (in this case "y") are only used to indicate default answer.13:21
wndof course that doesn't explain why "y" aborted in the first place13:21
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pupnik_sure does suck arachnist13:38
pupnik_so why does everybody use POS flash?13:38
tybolltpupnik_: cause we're lemmings13:39
pupnik_why do all the media heavy sites use it instead of giving us some reasonably standard encoded video not requiring a browser vm?13:39
tybolltSome guy in Espoo says "yxi kaxi kolme" and then we go buy his mobiles en masse13:40
hrw|n900pupnik_: cause they would not have users to display ads for?13:41
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SpeedEvilIt's like ebay.13:41
SpeedEvilIt sucks in many ways - but for much, it's the only functional auction.13:41
hrw|n900pupnik_: and browser is the most common platform now. each system has it13:42
user_i got  a problem13:43
hrw|n900pupnik_: imagine YT which require you to fetch/install app for using. will it work under xyz os?13:43
pupnik_doesnt each system have .mpg playback?13:43
pupnik_mpeg2 ?13:43
SpeedEvilpupnik_: it's not only mpeg13:44
SpeedEvilpupnik_: video delivery is not only what flash does13:44
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: HDR on N900? Any ideas?13:45
pupnik_oh they need ads?13:45
pupnik_where are they?  i dont see ads here13:45
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: not really looked.13:48
DocScrutinizerjust heard HDR somewhere, and remembered your auto-shooter13:48
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: there were a couple of threads on the forums IIRC, I didn't pay much attention. I do wish the datashet for the cam was available.13:48
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: oh - not done anything about that - I was at the bottom of the dynamic range :)13:49
hrw|n900food time...13:49
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: yep. but basically as soon as you can control the cam (exposure time, apperture, etc) via script, I guess you could throw together a first raw POC easily. Then probably need some move-around to compensate the missing tripod13:51
dreginanyone using the tear browser?13:51
SpeedEvilthere is no apature, it's just rolling shutter and gain13:51
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tarlanhello agi13:58
tarlanali hell13:59
tarlanali hello14:00
tarlanArif salam14:00
dreginGood to see ya out14:01
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tarlandregin hello14:01
pupnik_i think ari has the coolest rolling shutter pic i have ever seen14:01
tarlanay am 2014:02
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SpeedEvilpupnik_: yes. That ranks along with 'the coolest looking outhouse'14:03
pupnik_airplane propeller14:03
tarlanyes speedvil14:03
tarlanaep hello14:05
tarlanhow old are you14:06
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n00bmonk3yNew Healthcheck version in extras devel - with shiny new icon thanks to kopt314:07
pupnik_what is healthcheck?14:07
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tarlanhello Doclhome14:08
tarlanhow old are you ?14:09
n00bmonk3yho old is who?14:09
tarlanay am 2014:10
tarlan :)14:10
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Milo-is there a tool in maemo5 for checking available dbus methods/objects?14:18
n00bmonk3yooo yes ish14:19
n00bmonk3ydownloaded one from extras devel14:19
n00bmonk3ynot tried it yet - but there is one there14:19
DocScrutinizerMilo-: mdbus214:19
Milo-DocScrutinizer is that in devel?14:20
n00bmonk3yor qdbusviewer - the one i had i think14:20
Milo-better enable devel for while14:20
n00bmonk3y(Just loaded it, seems ok, simple though :) )14:20
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Milo-since nokia doesn't like to documentate their dbus features, you will have to guess :P14:21
DocScrutinizeryes :-/14:21
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n00bmonk3yany particular one you want? :D14:22
Milo-yes, /com/nokia/csd/call14:22
Robot101Milo-: you can make calls through telepathy14:22
Milo-no I don't want to make cal14:22
Milo-I want to catch those events14:23
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n00bmonk3yquite alot on it, but more how to make a call14:24
n00bmonk3yhow to hangup etc14:24
Milo-yes, I want to be able to autoaccept calls from certain people14:24
Milo-or autoignore them :)14:24
n00bmonk3y ?14:25
Milo-I know14:25
Milo-that's not exactly what I want14:25
Milo-I don't want some hidden daemon somewhere written in python14:25
n00bmonk3yoh you awnt the opposit14:25
Milo-making my own version using Qt and dbus14:25
Milo-so user can actually configure it without touching source code14:25
Milo-to make it look a bit more safe14:25
Milo-want to try to make a qt desktop widget14:27
Milo-heard those are now possible14:27
n00bmonk3ysorry dont have a clue :(14:27
SpeedEvilMilo-: naah. command-line-widget, and zenity. Problem solved. :)14:29
tarlanmilo hello14:30
Milo-tarlan hello14:30
tarlanhow old are you?14:31
Milo-like 2214:31
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tarlanlike  2914:32
tarlanwhere  are you from ? :)14:32
hrw|n900mdbus2 is also in testing14:32
hrw|n900vote for it to be promoted to extras14:33
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tarlango on milo14:33
Milo-hrw|n900 I'll test it first14:34
Milo-tarlan finland14:34
tarlanay live in Baku ;)14:34
* n00bmonk3y goes to play with mbus14:35
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tarlanay live in Azerbaijan 8-)14:35
* n00bmonk3y can't find mbus2?14:36
n00bmonk3ymdbus2 even14:36
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n00bmonk3yooo another one called d-feet in there too14:37
tarlanglad tomeet you14:37
Robot101Milo-: you can observe calls via telepathy, and then answer them or hang them up14:37
tarlanmilo go on14:37
tarlanmilo .....14:38
n00bmonk3ytarlon = fruit loop ;)14:38
Robot101Milo-: there's a Telepathy-Qt4 binding14:38
n00bmonk3yomg i can't type today14:38
Milo-Robot101 I might have to look into that :>14:39
tarlanmilo my is Tarlan 8-)14:39
Milo-tarlan are you asking something?14:40
Robot101Milo-: what you want to do is implement an observer for streamed media channels (what telepathy calls all calls)14:40
tarlan :'(14:40
Milo-Robot101 ah, then it is most likely exactly what I am looking for :)14:40
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pupnik_yet another video download that media player chokes on...14:40
tarlanmilo  yes14:40
Robot101Milo-: then you can poke them to answer it or hang it up or whatever14:40
n00bmonk3ytarlan - we can not understand what you are on about? you need to speak clearly14:41
tarlanmilo ay love you14:41
pupnik_from Vimeo.  and mplayer can only play it back when bypassing pulseaudio VIDEO:  [VP6F]  640x480  0bpp  23.976 fps  539.9 kbps (65.9 kbyte/s)14:41
* n00bmonk3y laughs14:41
Milo-I know I am a lovable person, put that is pretty sudden14:41
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crashanddietarlan: that's enough14:41
* n00bmonk3y wants Milo's babies.... i feel a fight coming on lol ;)14:41
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Milo-n00bmonk3y aww :>14:42
* Arif_ blinks14:42
pupnik_please take it to a junior high school channel14:42
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Arif_whos taking whos babies14:42
Milo-noone wants to make babies with milo :(14:42
crashanddietarlan: /join #defocus14:42
Arif_Milo-, not if you're looking on IRC :P14:43
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: ++14:43
tarlancrashanddie   thats enough14:43
pupnik_so i can get about 15 seconds of quiet audio playback with  pasuspender -- mplayer -fs -nocache -ao alsa:device=hw=0.0  -vo xv:ck-method=auto -lavdopts fast:skiploopfilter=nonref  -quiet14:44
n00bmonk3ylol tarlan telling off crashanddie? random!14:44
Milo-Arif_ :P14:44
pupnik_then for some reason audio cuts out14:44
tarlanmilo ay love you14:44
Milo-feel free14:44
pupnik_+o crashanddie14:44
Arif_pupnik_, maybe it got confused from the 5 mile command you gave it :P14:45
* DocScrutinizer apreciates his ignore list14:45
* Arif_ adds *!*@* to DocScrutinizer's ignore list14:45
dreginDocScrutinizer: lol?14:45
Arif_IRC looks so weird when you ahve people on ignore14:46
n00bmonk3ydoes it?14:46
dreginyeah, it gets annoying14:46
tarlanArif where are you from ?14:46
dreginn00bmonk3y: people look like they're talking to themselves :P14:46
n00bmonk3yooo Arif, i think Tarlan wants you now ;)14:46
DocScrutinizernot if you take care to get enough of those on it14:46
n00bmonk3ygd point dregin14:46
Arif_I'm not sure14:46
n00bmonk3yomg havnt heard the words asl since i was about 1214:47
Arif_But I just ordered Head-Direct RE0s14:47
crashanddien00bmonk3y: and you're 13 now?14:47
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* n00bmonk3y sets out the handbags at ten paces......14:47
tarlan milo ha ha ha14:47
Milo-kewl, mdbus2 segfaulted when my phone rang..14:47
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n00bmonk3ythe entertainment :(14:47
Arif_is PR1.2 out already?14:47
crashanddietarlan: please stop disrupting the channel, send me a PM whenever you're ready to make sense14:48
n00bmonk3yArif_ - i think certain people are testing releases of it14:48
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pupnik_ok the alternative to get audible sound on this borderline VP6F video is to drop the pasuspender and enable hard-framedropping14:48
Arif_n00bmonk3y, like who ? :D14:48
n00bmonk3ymeh read spmeones blog saying he was testing it last night14:48
Arif_I want my search fixed, damnit!14:49
Arif_it's not fun scrolling through 3000 songs to find something you want14:49
n00bmonk3yyeah tis a pain and i only have 11014:49
Arif_apparently its fixed....but there's no new FW14:50
Arif_they should just release all the packages serperately...14:50
n00bmonk3yahhhh we must wait like good little customers14:50
crashanddieArif_: I heard that if you put on random14:50
Arif_and then?14:50
Arif_it plays randomly? :P14:50
crashanddieArif_: and then think of the song you want, the 4th skip will be the right one14:50
Arif_now you say that14:51
Arif_I sometimes have that :D14:51
Arif_whenever I think of a song it shows up when I press next14:51
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Milo-Robot101 is there a package for telepathy-qt4 bindings?14:54
Milo-or is it installed by default?14:54
Robot101not sure off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure they should be in maemo extras or something14:54
Milo-meh, again in devel maye14:54
crashanddieffs, this internet connection is crap14:55
crashanddie20 seconds to buffer one second worth of video14:56
crashanddieand it's not even HD14:56
Arif_56k \o/14:56
Milo-Robot101 not in devel either14:57
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DocScrutinizerwho killed bambi?14:57
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n00bmonk3yhmmmmm just need to figure out the evil py2deb and bugtracker.... and the the pulseaudio-utils and my app is ready.... :(14:58
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pupnik_is there a way to launch media player from command-line and pass it options or get feedback?15:04
pupnik_right now i am seeing * * * * * ...15:05
pupnik_when launching from file browser15:05
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pupnik_and there appears no way for mplayer to scan this .flv container and just extract the audio.  -vo null still yields overruns cause it is decoding all the video frames15:19
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cehteh   << what happend to M$? .. sleek design15:23
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RST38hcehteh: They let Zune people design it15:24
cehtehnah exactly opposite15:24
cehtehi admit that thing doesnt look bad15:25
RST38hWait, the thing does look bulky15:25
cehtehnow if it wont be M$ and it would run linux i'd like it even more15:25
RST38hNot ugly, this will come later as you get to see and touch faux metal15:25
cehtehwell lets wait for more technical data about it15:25
* RST38h has seen Nokia's netbook in a store yesterday15:25
cehtehprobably .. i wont buy it anyways .. but it looks quite much better than 90% of all other M$ products which makes me wonder15:26
RST38hPretty ugly, but seems to be made of metal which saves it15:26
cehtehmaybe they outsourced the design :P15:26
Gadgetoidcehteh, those are renders....15:27
cehtehyes and? .. the real device will prolly look close to it15:27
GadgetoidThe courier is vapourware bullshit that Microsoft are using to try and dent iPad sales whilst they struggle to come up with something real15:27
cehtehfirst n900 pics where also renders15:27
GadgetoidWhich will look and behave absolutely nothing like the courier15:27
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cehtehhey .. i dont adore M$ .. just the design surprised me thats all15:28
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GadgetoidYes, it's as bold, rediculous and unlikely as any concept car15:28
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crashanddiesomehow, I think someone should check their website to see if it works before going live15:28
RST38hOh well15:28
pupnik_there is an mplayer with dsp accel from the beagleboard era15:28
GadgetoidBut, hey, at least Microsoft are finally eating their own words and admitting that Windows on a tablet is futile15:29
RST38hcehteh: Not much interesting in the design, although it does look clean. In a rendering.15:29
TermanaThe video made it look good anyway15:29
crashanddieRandom Quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson: "[an error occurred while processing this directive]"15:29
Corsacfunny, hostname is still Nokia-N900-42-1115:29
Corsacwill something break if I change the hostname?15:29
RST38hOh, WashPost finally notices it15:29
RST38hHow cute15:29
TermanaThe software interface part that is15:30
RST38hThat is a demo. Disregard.15:30
RST38hThe final device will have Win7 desktop. Or two. :)15:30
GadgetoidRST38h, hahaha, face, meet palm15:30
GadgetoidMicrosoft have a track record of sheer crap in the mobile device arena, and even the Xbox 360 and Xbox are horrible15:31
GadgetoidThat said if you don't look at the Xbox 360, it's a good games console15:31
GadgetoidMicrosoft rock at Mice/Keyboards though15:32
RST38h+ they make pregnant keyboard that make my brain boil15:32
* RST38h absolutely hates having to type on these15:32
GadgetoidHaha, you mean those ergonomic ones?15:32
GadgetoidI hate the bumpy boomerang ergonomic ones15:32
mikhasthey are great15:32
cehtehi already regret starting this talk .. i only wanted to point out that they stopped to make barbie like toy design for that device, not argueing about OS and usability, freedon, usefulness or whatever15:32
RST38hyea, these are the pregnant ones15:32
GadgetoidBut I have a bluetooth keyboard from them which has the same angle and split, without the bump, it isn't bad15:32
mikhasnever had any wrist pain with those15:32
RST38hcehteh: Teaches you well =)15:33
Gadgetoidcehteh, agreed, which makes me think even more that it's vapour15:33
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RST38hcehteh: At least you have not raised the question of iPad design being cool, imagine the backlash...15:33
cehtehno i dont even want to discuss if its vapor or not :)15:33
GadgetoidDid they actually design the iPad, or put the components together and say "done!"15:34
cehtehi'd like the M$ foldable more than the ipad i think .. until some sand coins or something else gets between the displays prolly15:34
RST38hcehteh: weight.15:34
cehtehGadgetoid: they just scaled the iphone up :)15:34
RST38hYea, they blew up the iphone15:35
Gadgetoidcehteh, and hybridized it with the iMac styling15:35
RST38hdid not even change the ui15:35
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GadgetoidTechnically they did change the UI15:35
TermanaRST38h: Whats that you say, your going to blow up an iPhone? MAKE SURE YOU FILM IT. :P15:35
Termana*cleans out his ears*15:35
GadgetoidI will be grabbing an iPad as soon as I can, only way I'll get to review cases/accessories for it15:35
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Corsacare repositories down?15:36
Corsac0% [1 python2.5-sip4 15579/85,3kB 18%]                           721B/s 47min5s15:36
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cehtehwake me when they are up :P15:36
TermanaGadgetoid: Sounds more like you have an iPad lust and are justifing your polygamy but saying your need to review cases and accessories.15:37
Termanaby saying*15:37
Termanayou need*15:37
Termanadamn it15:37
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GadgetoidTermana, I don't deny having iPad lust, and am certain I'll buy one, I'm just justifying the early adoption15:38
Gadgetoidwhich I am almost certain I'll be burned for15:38
cehtehi am certain that i dont want one15:39
rzripad doesnt need us :)15:39
GadgetoidI just hope the makers of Settlers add a free play mode and a full resolution port for the iPad15:40
cehtehcolor e-ink is on the horizon ... in a few years you get sunlight readable, foldable. color displays15:40
Gadgetoidcehteh e-paper from Caprica (the series) ftw15:40
_strcpyanybody else have problem with "desktop command exec widget" too? hildon hangs and crash after loading it...15:41
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Gadgetoidcehteh,  obligatory crappy picture15:42
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cehtehdoesnt look very usable15:43
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pupnik__strcpy: havent figured out how to work it - it shows "error" here15:43
cehtehtake a newspaper and try to press things on it15:44
* RST38h tried that long time ago15:44
Gadgetoidnewspaper is pretty poor quality paper15:44
_strcpypupnik_, I don`t get any error.  first I managed to config it but later as soon as I add it to desktop , hildon dies15:45
pupnik_i added commands i needed to ~/.profile shortcuts and launch from terminal15:46
_strcpyme looking for a trick to get my external IP15:46
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_strcpylbt, there are lot`s of ways to get it manually , but no quick widget :)15:50
lbtwell you asked for an 'external' IP15:51
_strcpya mix of wget & grep do the work too , but only if "exec" widget don`t piss of hildon :p15:51
lbtI'd start with the homeip widget if I were you15:52
lbtit's trivial to edit15:52
_strcpynot work here :/15:52
crashanddiewhy do you use ` instead of '?15:53
lbtwhat? homeip?15:53
_strcpyyea home-ip and few other widgets are NOT added when I add them to desktop. have no idea why15:53
_strcpyon latest update/upgraded n900 , just to note15:53
_strcpydoes it require any modification before first use?15:54
_strcpyover latest firmware/update?15:55
_strcpylet me remove/re-install it. maybe works..15:55
_strcpyis "desktop command exec" working for you too?15:56
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lbtnot tried15:56
_strcpycan you please give it a try ?15:56
_strcpyjust install and add it.15:56
lbtpoint me to a wiki page :)15:56
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crashanddie"Hey, let's execute commands that some guy on IRC tells me to"15:58
* lbt does that all the time15:58
lbtwhat could possibly go wrong?15:58
mikhas"I've seen it work in a comic once"? =p15:58
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lbtheh :)15:59
lbt"Don't worry, you'll be fine; I saw it work in a cartoon once..."15:59
crashanddieyou know how in police shows the geeks always uberkill everything?15:59
mikhasyou are of course allowed to correct my meta-citation15:59
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lbt(I had to check)16:00
crashanddieI'd love for once, just once, having the though cop call the geek, and ask "JD [or whatever stupid nickname] there seems to be a two hundred forty eight bits with dual polarity applied to this laptop, can you do anything with it?"16:00
crashanddieand the geek go "Have you tried turning it off and on again?"16:01
crashanddieI mean, just once16:01
crashanddiethey can slip "I'll go write a visual basic app and see if I can get an IP address" into the dialogue, surely we, using limited amounts of social engineering can get something like that in NCIS, right?16:02
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pupnik_stop watching idiot tv :)16:03
pupnik_i am going through these economics lectures
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pupnik_but have to use -vo null16:04
Gadgetoidcrashanddie, try being a forensic anthropologist and watching bones16:06
crashanddieGadgetoid: oh yeah, I'm sure you must be splitting one when they get the size of the bullet from a fractured skull16:07
SpeedEvilbullet from fractured skull isn't _complete_ bullshit.16:07
crashanddieGadgetoid: but then again, Bones' plot is vaguely interesting16:07
GadgetoidActually I just masturbate every time they use the magical 3d visualizer16:07
SpeedEvilGadgetoid: yeah. Producer: 'I want a holodeck'. Science advisor: <head explodes>16:08
crashanddieSpeedEvil: maybe not, but any good lawyer could throw that out of a courtroom.16:08
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GadgetoidI like that the show does that, they don't even pretend that anything is based on any real science, they just lark about16:09
GadgetoidAnd blow shit up!16:09
TermanaAnd blowing shit up makes up for it all!16:09
SpeedEvilGadgetoid: yes. At least on star-trek - there is - pretty much unashamed admission it's technowank.16:09
SpeedEvilAnd only the hardcorest of fanboys actually care about the (inconsistent) science.16:10
crashanddie"So you collected a skull that has been sitting in a pond for two years, re-assembled the pieces, and are able to tell me that it was a 9 mil pistol that was used for the murder? And that links you to my client?"16:10
GadgetoidBetter than "six weeks later: we have got the results in, apparently we now have inconclusive evidence that there might possibly may have been trace amounts of unobtainium on his shirt"16:10
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SpeedEvilIn some ways - well done fantasy shows - say Buffy - can be more self-consistent than CSI.16:11
crashanddieGadgetoid: please don't rip off xkcd :P16:11
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SpeedEvilThat's what you go to school for?16:12
crashanddiewell, after season 3, lesbian-library chick, uber-library-chief-turned-hardcore-magician and spike were the only things that kept me watching it16:12
* RST38h yawns and suggests watching stuff completely unrelated to reality. Like DrWho.16:12
crashanddieoh, and the quote in Buffy: "I've googled till I couldn't google no more" (which in my book, is the first reference to Google as a verb)16:12
GadgetoidPfff, Buffy's sister ftw!16:12
RST38hcrashanddie: Just switch to Xena and do away with the librarian and spike16:12
FIQis there any news on the psx emu?16:13
GadgetoidI accidentally googles?16:13
crashanddienha, xena was too difficult to watch, I kept imagining cross-overs with ER after the chick went intern16:13
crashanddiethe sidekick chick, that is16:13
pupnik_fiq just a december update for iphone.  and a slow one running here16:13
GadgetoidFIQ, yeah, it's on the Pandora :D16:14
GadgetoidWhich is coming in Two Years16:14
crashanddieRST38h: james marsters' performance in torchwood was actually pretty good16:14
RST38hpupnik: BTW, is it possible to compile PCSX straight from the source or does it require binary-only 3d plugins?16:14
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pupnik_can cimpile from source.  i did a little gtk tweaking16:14
RST38hcrashanddie: Torchwood shows at inopportune time for me and I do not like it enough to download the torrent16:14
RST38hpupnik: Nice =)16:14
KeegzNew maemo video
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pupnik_what about Keegz16:15
crashanddieRST38h: definitely worth it, it gives you the same pace as dr who, but it with a much more adult feel to it16:15
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RST38hcrashanddie: I watched at least 2/3 of it when itr was showing the last time, on tv16:15
Gadgetoidcrashanddie, and it has gay kissing!16:15
RST38hcrashanddie; naah, it is no DrWho16:15
FIQpsx-emu + sixais + tv-out = win16:15
crashanddieRST38h: said the same pace, not the same16:16
GadgetoidPSX emu on the mythical Pandora = win :D16:16
crashanddieGadgetoid: so?16:16
Gadgetoidcrashanddie, I'm sure there are some who would watch it for that alone!16:16
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crashanddieGadgetoid: it's the only frikking show where they actually show men kissing, rather than hiding it in subtext so complex that even the actors don't get it, or make it so overly queer that it's not far removed from hollyoaks16:17
FIQhm, there's a ps emulator for ds16:17
Gadgetoidcrashanddie, it's the only frikking show that has John Barrowman, a man so hot that even straight men want to see him kissing another guy16:17
* RST38h isn't sure why men kissing is such an attraction16:17
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FIQit playa 7-8 games!16:18
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Tuxprobehiya, how would i fix/recover apt-get / dpkg from doing a bad installation?? something went wrong when i tried installing samba-common16:19
* fnordianslip just had interesting experience with n900. i'd just started to play a Rocketboom video in mediaplayer, with my bluetooth headphones connected, when things started getting really bogged down, with audio stutters and glitchy video. i switched to the desktop and noticed a missed call notification. the call must have come in just as the video was starting. anyone else seen this?16:19
RST38hFIQ: Ok. What do we all have to do with that?16:19
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RST38hfnordianslip: Sounds right16:19
RST38hFIQ: Good. Make conclusions.16:19
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FIQwhy is the default font for n900 named some weird chars?16:20
fnordianslipRST38h: yeah, the outcome could have been worse, so i can live with it.  i'd like to think that some future platform changes might improve this kind of behaviour though.16:20
RST38hfnordianslip: Now, if you started experiencing regular audio stuttering and video bog downs, I would say it is bug #638216:20
povbotBug Device becomes sluggish after several days16:20
FIQMHeiGB18030C-Medium Light 2016:21
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RST38hA South Korean couple was arrested for starving their baby to death, reportedly only feeding her once a day after marathon sessions at an internet cafe. What was keeping them so busy? Their virtual baby.16:22
crashanddieRST38h: because homosexuality (and I'm not talking about the long-term couple relationships between men, just man to man sexuality) has been part of our culture since the beginning of times. The romans accepted it, the greeks accepted it, it was very common during renaissance and highly depicted during 18th century litterature... It's only with the advent of church, religion, and over the last 50 years having "queer" being syno16:22
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pupnik_last i heard was one guy working on getting some derivative of pete's oGL gpu plugin integrated with psx4all, but no news in ages.16:22
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pupnik_we have culture?16:23
RST38hcrashanddie: Yes, but what is so interesting about it/16:23
crashanddienothing, it's just refreshing to see it shown naturally16:23
fnordianslipRST38h: don't think i have a bug-6382-like issue. in fact, i've just hit 6.5 days uptime which is probably my best yet, since I learned to keep an eye on tonegend and not leave the browser running all day.16:23
RST38hcrashanddie: If they have shown bestiality or necrophilia, on TV, at prime time, that would get me [morbidly] interested16:23
crashanddieand, kinda hot I guess, when depicted correctly16:23
jo-erlendfnordianslip, that's uptime without restarting?16:24
RST38hcrashanddie: But guys kissing? So fucking what? I have observed Brezhnev kissing other heads of state for the first 8 years of my life16:24
Stskeepsand so it begins in android camp16:24
jo-erlendfnordianslip, recharging, meant! :)16:24
fnordianslipoh no16:24
crashanddieRST38h: again, you may be focusing on your own experiences, as you self-centerdly always do.16:24
GadgetoidRST38h, what about two, dead, male horses kissing?16:25
RST38hcrashanddie: Of course16:25
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RST38hGadgetoid: two dead female horses using live kitten as a dildo16:25
jo-erlendfnordianslip, then you mean you've been able to keep the phone up for almost a week? That doesn't sound terribly impressive to me..16:25
fnordianslipno way.  i seem to get from 9am until 9-12pm without even thinking of recharging it, most days, unless tonegend of the browser has started eating charge.16:25
RST38hfnordianslip: Just in case, check how well camera works. If you see long delays when making pictures, you have hit the sluggish bug16:26
fnordianslipbut that may include 6 hours of music listening over bluetooth.  i rarely even remember i have a camera, let alone use it16:26
FIQdejavu sans isn't in the repos?16:27
RST38hfnordianslip: same here16:27
RST38hBut sometimes, when I do remember about it, I am in for an unpleasant surprise =(16:27
pupnik_same RST38h16:27
fnordianslipaudio stability is pretty poor though16:27
RST38hpupnik: Got any POP3 accounts enabled ?16:28
fnordianslipi've found killing browser/browserd helps when mine goes all grumpy and unresponsive16:28
pupnik_no.  just opened lens cover and waited 22 secdonds to see camera appear.  but picture snap worked16:29
RST38hpupnik: Oh yes, that is the bug. Please comment / vote on it16:29
RST38hpupnik: Reboot makes it quick again, doesn't it?16:29
pupnik_and photo appeared in photos this time - with tracker disabled16:30
fnordianslipmy camera app opens instantly and snap is normal, so seems ok here16:30
RST38hpupnik: Camera may explicitely run the tracker on its own16:30
pupnik_i would need to test more consistently16:30
pupnik_ah ty16:30
RST38hpupnik: If you can, try finding out what the difference between freshly rebooted and 7-days-old device is16:31
RST38hpupnik: I have not been able to find any differences. All the stats appear to be the same16:31
fnordiansliptracker updates during music playing is a bit of a pain.  and panucci playback over bluetooth fails and will not resume when email notifications, etc, occur16:31
RST38hpupnik: My current suspicion falls onto the swap use16:31
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pupnik_got python installed RST38h ?16:33
fnordianslipcould be.  all of my music is on the emmc16:33
RST38hpupnik: no16:33
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RST38hpupnik: Basically, there is only one bottleneck that may cause this without bringing up CPU activity or memory use meters16:34
fnordianslipi wonder if shifting swap to the usdhc card might help16:34
RST38hpupnik: It is disk activity to the eMMC16:34
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RST38hpupnik: Really thin, slow pipe. Any spike in traffic overloads it, swap use included16:35
fnordianslipRST38h: ^^^ ?16:35
fnordianslipi wonder if shifting swap to the usdhc card might help16:35
RST38hNo idea, try16:36
* RST38h is not exactly sure if two eMMC cards have got separate datapaths16:36
pupnik_it does loo like swap.  2nd camera open brought image preview in 1 second16:36
RST38htry making pictures - I am getting 15s-30s delays when making a picture16:38
lcukRST38h, have you corrupted your memory card then, or is it a tracker db problem perhaps>16:40
RST38hlcuk: My card appears to be ok. Not sure about tracker db.16:40
pupnik_i saw that before RST38h but right now it is only 1.5 seconds16:40
RST38hlcuk: The problem occurs after 6-7 days of use. Reboot fixes it.16:41
crashanddieyou can delete it pretty easily RST38h16:41
RST38hcrashanddie: how? =)16:41
RST38hlcuk: Looks like disabling POP3 account in Modest made it better btw16:41
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crashanddieRST38h: tracker-processes --hard-reset'16:41
lcuklol RST38h16:42
crashanddieer, without the quote at the end16:42
RST38hcrashanddie: ah cool, making a note, will try it next time slowdown occurs =)16:42
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lcukcrashanddie, you dont sleep anymore16:50
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Otacon22Unihi all16:50
Otacon22Unii have some problems on my n90016:50
Otacon22Uniit does not connect to wifi wpa eap networks...16:51
Otacon22Uniit says "authentication filed,retry?"16:51
satmdI have a wpa eap network16:52
satmdworks fine16:52
satmdjust using the certificate16:52
Otacon22Unime too16:52
Otacon22Unibut it does not work16:52
satmdwell, your cert needs to be imported to the certificate manager, with a password set16:53
satmdit'll ask for that pass again for wifi16:53
Otacon22Unii've seen that there is a ticket about that on maemo site16:53
Otacon22Unii know that16:53
satmdthe password storage? yes, been fixed16:53
satmdin 5.1.116:53
Otacon22Unino, about wpa eap tls16:53
* satmd deletes his connection and sets it up again16:54
Otacon22Unianyway i've installed the certificate (.p12)16:54
Otacon22Unii've setted the password16:54
riothow do i find out whats keeping ksoftirqd eating up two of my four cores every few seconds?16:54
crashanddielcuk: not much these days16:55
riotoops, wrong chan, sorry :)16:55
riot(mhmh, maemo-devices with four cores.. yikes ;)16:55
satmdI just retried and it worked16:55
satmdcan you tell me the bug number?16:55
povbotBug 7764: WPA-EAP authentication fails with *any* expired certificate16:56
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satmdthat's a different bug than I expected16:59
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Otacon22Unisatmd, so i have to wait until the next update of maemo?17:04
satmdI dunno17:04
satmdthat bug says about internal investigation17:04
satmdso maybe nokia fixes it in the next release17:04
Otacon22Unii hope17:04
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FIQwasn't there a repo somewhere that stored all the bugfixes patches that could be installed with simple "apt-get upgrade"?17:05
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crashanddieyeah, for debian17:06
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satmdbut btw... I would have expected expired certificates to fail, because that is the POINT of expiry dates17:07
satmdso the title of that bug is a little misleading17:07
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crashanddiecertificates should fail for more than expired date17:08
crashanddieand the expiry date on certificates has always been more of a management guideline more than a security feature17:08
Otacon22Unimy certificate has not expired17:09
Corsachhmhm, i disagree, expiracy isn't there just for management17:09
satmda stolen certificate with limited lifetime can do limited damage17:10
satmdnot everyone uses crls17:10
satmdand not every service actually uses them17:10
satmdOtacon22Uni: yeah, your cert probably has not expired... I just said the bug description is misleading17:10
satmd(hoping for more people to look at it)17:10
crashanddieCRLs and OCSP is what PKI is based on, if not for them, certificates are worthless17:10
satmdcrashanddie: openssl verify by default does not check them17:11
satmde.g. in scripts17:11
Otacon22Unianyway now i'm not where there is that network,but as soon as possibile i will try to connect by shell with wpa_supplicant17:12
crashanddieand? OpenSSL's defaults are hardly anything to write home about17:12
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satmdpostfix doesn't either - iirc17:13
crashanddielol, Microsoft's CSP is probably more secure than OpenSSL -- when you compare their default settings17:13
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crashanddieI'd rely on NSS a lot more than OSSL17:16
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crashanddiebut who am I to talk about PKI, eh?17:22
Corsacyes, who are you?17:22
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Corsac(TLS libs state on linux is pretty much scary anyway)17:22
Corsac(libssl, nss, gnutls, all scary)17:23
crashanddieaww, I thought my profile said it all17:23
Corsacpolarssl looks good but doesn't have all features17:23
Corsac(and isn't used anywhere :)17:23
Corsachmhm, can't reach maemo.org17:24
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Corsacstops at
satmdcrashanddie: not only libs, but also cert management on a CA scope is pretty scary, too17:25
satmdI settled for a Makefile + specialized openssl.cnf17:26
crashanddiewhich is why if you want a serious CA, you go with proprietary17:26
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crashanddiethough, I've never seen sufficient requirements inside anything personal/open source to require a commercial CA17:27
satmdwell, I work in research field (heating/water sector)17:27
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Corsaccrashanddie: ejbca is based on java crypto api17:27
satmdso I went pki to secure our network17:27
crashanddieOne of the CAs I'm most familiar with is Entrust, and it really is the rolls royce of CAs, works beautifully on Solaris and Windows17:27
Corsac(and is open source)17:27
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Corsac(but it's java)17:28
crashanddieCorsac: yeah, EJB is nice too, but sadly widely untrusted as it doesn't have the correct credentials yet17:28
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Corsacthe correct credentials?17:28
crashanddiewe're actually on a few projects where it's starting to get implemented, so it might have governmental badges pretty soon17:28
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Corsaccrashanddie: it's used by swedish police, french gendarmerie nationale17:28
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crashanddieyeah, which aren't really industry leaders17:29
crashanddieAt the moment, in Europe, only the UK police or any european MoD would be considered a "valid" badge that would make it be considered by others17:30
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Corsaccrashanddie: where do you get that from?17:31
crashanddiebut considering that UK Police uses cybertrust (or whatever it's called these days, it's the one from verizon, used to be baltimore), which used to be the de facto standard for government agencies all over the world, especially in Europe17:31
crashanddieCorsac: I'm a consultant for a company which specialises in credential management17:31
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crashanddieThere's only a few competitors in the commercial CA business. Microsoft CA is the cheapest one (free with most server editions of windows), but its CRL and template management is so basic it's not usable for anyone with more than 20k seats17:33
crashanddieCybertrust historically had most of the governmental agencies, but Verizon isn't really chasing that market anymore, so they mainly do renewals. Entrust is eating away at their market share17:34
crashanddieCorsac: my company has been heavily involved in the CAC and PIV deployments in the US. The *only* way (and I kid you not) to get traction on PIV in Europe is through the UK. We fought very hard but finally we're getting more and more UK Police forces joining up on PIV. We even have the NPIA, and that was a big score. Before any of that, European companies/governments would not even consider implementing anything that's used in17:37
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crashanddieBut as soon as you say "It's being implemented in the UK as we speak, after having seen the benefits in the US", then they listen... Security, sadly, is a sheep market. Nobody wants to set a precedent, but as soon as it's there, everyone jumps in17:38
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Corsacwhat's piv?17:39
crashanddiePersonal Identity Verification. A standard that was implemented by the US DoD (all army/marine personel have a card) which enables them to tell companies/contractors "Implement this standard, so that we can check who you are"17:40
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Corsacit's a middleware for smartcard?17:41
Corsacwell, more like an api17:41
crashanddiekinda. It's a smartcard applet definition17:42
pupnik_neat sstuff crashanddie17:43
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* DocScrutinizer wonders what the German ID card authetication feature will be - the ID card is supposed to roll out in Q4/201017:43
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Corsaccrashanddie: you might be interested by IAS ECC then17:44
DocScrutinizersome kind of RFID17:44
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: german ID or health?17:44
pupnik_the health card is a giant waste of money17:44
pupnik_but nice if you are recieving the money of course :)17:45
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: rot1217:45
DocScrutinizer~rot13 SpeedEvil17:45
crashanddie~rot13 FCRRQRIVY17:45
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satmdhm hm17:47
SpeedEvilCards are easy to screw up if you don't employ people that actually know their shit.17:47
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SpeedEvilTo define the system.17:47
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SpeedEvilThere are no root certs for the passport system for example.17:47
crashanddie~rot13 bzt fcrrqrivy v yhim lbh!!!! Lbh'er fb njrfbzr. Pna V unf lbhe plobet onovrf?17:47
infobotomg speedevil i luvz you!!!! You're so awesome. Can I has your cyborg babies?17:47
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SpeedEvilAnd 'chip and pin' is broken in the implementation.17:48
crashanddiedetails :)17:48
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crashanddieSpeedEvil: it's even worse, the german health system goons forgot to backup the HSM that was holding the reference environment's root private keys17:49
crashanddieSpeedEvil: there was a power failure, HSM thought it was an attack, deleted all the keys as a safeguard17:50
pupnik_anybody here know any google search terms i could seek to find webserver software that can transcode heavy flash streams and files to something mobile friendly?17:50
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: that would never of course happen in a real rolled-out system.17:51
crashanddieSpeedEvil: it was only the reference environment, so nothing major, but it just goes to show how incompetent some people are17:51
crashanddieSpeedEvil: you'd be amazed :)17:51
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SpeedEvilNo, regrettably not.17:51
crashanddieI tell this one story, because I just love it so much.17:51
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crashanddieI was doing a workshop with the main backbone and network provider in the UK17:52
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crashanddieI wanted to do a demo on a laptop, so I ask the head of security if I can borrow his smartcard. He had it in a holster around his neck.17:52
crashanddieHe looks at me, looks at his card, and says "No". I insist, explaining I just need to show a stupid feature which doesn't require anything, bla bla17:53
crashanddieHe replies "I can't take it out of the holster in public, the PIN is written on the back"17:53
pupnik_good story17:53
Robot101gnnnrngnhashdfh *headdesk*17:53
Robot101but he can say that in public? :P17:53
SpeedEvilNow all you need is a cute MOTAS, and ...17:54
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crashanddieRandall is right in his comic about cryptography. You can implement the toughest system, it won't matter a dime if the people who use it (and even worse, administer it) are not properly educated17:56
SpeedEvilAnd if the policies aren't rigourously enforced.17:56
SpeedEvilForex - reporting his violation of the password-writing-down-rule to him should have got him disciplined.17:57
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crashanddieThis has been proven time and time again by social engineering (Kevin Mitnick's "Your passes have expired, we'll send someone to pick them up" is a classic, but oh so remarkable in its simplicity)17:57
lcukcrashanddie, education means nothing, if the system is widely used, it just takes one bad day by one person to bring the stack of cards17:58
crashanddieand if anyone doesn't know that story, youtube it, search for mitnick and last hope17:58
SpeedEvilCombined with 'people in a smart suit and a clipboard can't be up to evil'.17:58
crashanddieSpeedEvil: <3 social compliance17:58
crashanddielcuk: not really. The whole point about proper security isn't so much in the technology as it is in the processes, as outlined by SpeedEvil. One person shouldn't be able to do everything. If the policies require you to have 3 approvals and 2 different people to execute, that's 5 hurdles you need to overcome as an attacker17:59
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crashanddielcuk: same thing with the "bad day" scenario. If the powers are sufficiently compartementalised ensuring that any one person can't damage anything without other people accepting it, you're seriously limiting the risk factor18:00
SpeedEvils/bad day/blackmail/18:01
crashanddieSpeedEvil: actually, that one is referred to as "black day" :P18:01
crashanddieblackmail, hack and theft/steal are banned words in our industry, sadly.18:02
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SpeedEvilIt really needs a team of smart people to work out what the worst case use of the data is. And how much this might be worth to certain parties.18:02
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crashanddieBlackmail is black day, or dark evening; hack is workaround; theft/stealing is unauthorised/illegitimate access.18:03
SpeedEvilFor example, you can mine health data for rich people on sleeping pills that live alone.18:03
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crashanddieany given system is flawed. It's the base paradigm of security. The only thing you can attempt is make it more difficult, more expensive, or make attacks more easily reconisable18:05
SpeedEvilOr reduce the target.18:06
SpeedEvilCompartmentalised databases rather than massive centralisation.18:06
crashanddieusually, the lower the security, the more there is a guarantee (all the OSs screaming that they're the most secure OS) of security. The higher the security, the lesser the guarantee, and the more you emphasise on "limiting risk factors" or "reduced loss approach"18:06
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SpeedEvilI did a BOTE design for an ID card that required no central database, other than one very secured point that would only be needed for checking potential dupes at aplication time.18:07
SpeedEvilBack of the envelope.18:08
SpeedEvilI was wondering if you could do a national ID card in a secure way.18:08
SpeedEvilWhere secure = non privacy invasion.18:08
SpeedEvilIt's really tricky, but possible largely.18:08
crashanddieWell, you could18:09
crashanddieno-one implemented it, though18:09
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SpeedEvilIt's easier and more fun to do one hooked to a massive database.18:09
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crashanddieOff the top of my head, I'd see data on the smartcard (as opposed to stored in a database), signed by the certificate on the smartcard, which in turn is signed by the government's CA18:10
crashanddieThe data is added to the smartcard during smartcard perso (enrollment and activation)18:11
SpeedEvilAnd the card can be presented to a biometric terminal which communiates the biometric to the card, along with 'is this person entitled to foo' and gets a 1 bit answer.18:11
crashanddiewell, the authorisation should not be handled by the card18:12
satmdfirst thing I'll do to my next id card: microwave18:12
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: if it isn't - it requires a backend database somewhere which can record each access.18:13
crashanddieSpeedEvil: yeah, but then you're going to have issues with fabricating a card which always answers your "yes" bit18:14
Triztdamn, hildon-desktop suddenly too 100% cpu power after a phone call, is that a known bug?18:14
SpeedEvilcrashanddie: at that point the user has the option of authenticating in various manners with the aid of the central db18:14
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crashanddieTrizt: oh I'm sorry, we weren't formaly introduced, I'm the guy who spends his days memorising the bugzilla database, can I be of any service?18:14
Triztis bug #1 fixed yet? ;)18:15
povbotBug test - ignore it18:15
crashanddieSpeedEvil: it really depends what you're trying to achieve18:15
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crashanddieSpeedEvil: if it's just identification, what I said before enables you to prove your identity without the shadow of a doubt -- it even allows you to digitally sign for things when required (and when you agree to)18:16
crashanddieSpeedEvil: if you want to do authentication, and authorisation processing, I'm not aware of any non-central system that could realisatically be used18:16
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crashanddieanyway, it's late18:17
crashanddieI need to go to bed18:17
crashanddie240 page document review awaits tomorrow, woohoo18:18
crashanddieSpeedEvil: thanks for the interesting discussion, as always18:18
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NoobMonk3y\me waves18:19
* NoobMonk3y waves18:19
NoobMonk3ylo alls18:19
NoobMonk3yanyone alive? :)18:20
Triztnah, everyone died18:22
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javispedroah, the entire dpkg-gensymbols stuff is broken in scratchbox so it's unusable18:25
Stskeepswho is surprised?18:25
javispedrothe script itself seems to fail to parse version info from ELFs,18:25
javispedroand the dh_makeshlibs one is from an older debian version so they're not compatible18:25
javispedroat all.18:26
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Stskeepscan't wait till we're rid of it18:26
javispedrono wonder nobody in maemo uses .symbols files :)18:26
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javispedroI am yet to see what's RPM packaging about18:27
arachnistrpm .spec files are very easy to write18:28
Stskeepsjavispedro: i was sold after seeing how easy it is to bootstrap a system, and specs look sane too :P18:28
javispedroI like the one file contains everything approach18:29
javispedrohow do you put icons in? wait for the upstream tarball to contain them at the appropriate sizes?18:29
Stskeepsyou can have attachments18:29
Stskeepslike patches etc18:29
Stskeepsnot sure about icons, but there should be a way18:30
_strcpyduh , found the root of problem with that damn "external ip" pre-defined command on widget18:30
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_strcpyif the host wget contact is not reponding by any mean, entire process halts, rather than a simple timeout error18:31
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DocScrutinizer_strcpy: err, which problem?18:47
lcukthe changes you made for sdl18:50
lcukare they complete, ie do they allow gles apps directly from sdl now18:51
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javispedroyes, they work18:51
lcukdoes normal sdl benefit from it, ie gles blits etc?18:51
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javispedrothat requires much more work than a single afternoon :)18:52
lcukof course, but the ground support is there and opens a gles context etc?18:52
javispedroyes; if you do it, you cannot blit with the SDL functions (like on normal GL SDL 1.2)18:53
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lcukpupnik_, have you seen any additional sdl GL ES code lying around anywhere18:53
javispedrothat was called the "SDL_OPENGLBLIT" flag somewhere.18:53
lcukyeah thats not a real blit is it - it would require creating a texture and laying polygons down18:54
* lcuk needs to get further than the preface of the book really lol, since i got it ive had too much real work on18:54
javispedrowhat kind of blit you want? :)18:54
lcukeven today i am sidetracked18:55
lcuknothin, just curious about how normal sdl works18:55
lcukor rather how much benefit the es bit would be18:55
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burchrlcuk: the good kind of sidetracked I hope18:55
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javispedrothe normal sdl had the "non opengl mode" (using xshm for blitting to the screen), the "opengl mode" (where you just use opengl calls, and normal sdl 2d blits don't do anything) and the "opengl blit" mode, where you can use both gl calls and then modify and blit SDL surfaces, but is deprecated and slow.18:56
lcukburchr, the run off feet kind18:56
burchrheh :(18:56
javispedromy lib only implements the first two18:56
javispedrowell, the second one only actually :)18:57
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lcukjavispedro, so its exploration by you!18:58
javispedroi'm porting some iphone game atm (not free unfortunately so won't be able to release it)18:58
javispedrothe first one I used bare Xlib, plus canberra for sound effects (in place of the SoundEffect iphone framework)18:59
javispedrobare Xlib is.. awful; Canberra is nice but does not cache sounds and does not seem designed for this.18:59
* lcuk doesnt mind closed source, but wishes when it stops being developed it gets opened up 19:00
juhovhXlib is pretty raw :P19:00
RST38hbare xlib is ok19:00
lcukxlib is perfectly reasonable19:00
juhovhit's just a very simple implementation of the protocol19:00
lcukand compatible too19:00
RST38hall te crap crazy penguins put on top is kinda frustrating though19:01
lcuklol RST38h19:01
javispedroI find it way too much verbosy19:01
lcukhow long are you stateside for19:01
juhovhI've done raw xlib over a tcp connection initiated using kernel syscalls directly19:01
DocScrutinizer_strcpy: maybe you'd like to give this one a try (look into it first, you need to edit URL of STUN server)
juhovhwith no libc but in C anyway19:02
javispedroraw X11 then19:02
juhovhthat should be compatible as well19:02
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juhovhI think the kernel apis don't change much19:02
juhovhin gnu systems the libc version compatibility can be a pain19:02
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RST38hlcuk: two weeks19:03
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lcukcool, did you take family or strictly working19:03
RST38hlcuk: no, family is back in ru19:04
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* lcuk nods19:04
RST38hlcuk: have to do a few annual chores19:04
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lcukreasonable enough, though why you cant just shower in russia is beyond me :p19:05
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RST38hlcuk: gets more complicated than that, with tax revenue service etc19:06
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_strcpydockane, thanks. I used something alike (wget -O - -q )19:15
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pupnik_RST38h: again now since downloading a 300 MB flash and closing browser i have pegged cpu meter and very very slow (up to 5 minutes) lack of screen response while top shows noting19:29
pupnik_mousepointer moves with tap but windows will not close from app overview19:30
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RST38hsounds like our bug19:30
RST38hOr, run FireFox Mobile and suffer19:31
RST38hYou won;t be able to close it, reach task switcher, or even lock the device with the sliding switch19:31
Stskeepsisn't that just the video thumbnailer and that stuff?19:31
NoobMonk3ythis mirc on the go is pretty good and easy. very impressed with XChat!19:31
RST38hthumbnailer adds to the problem but does not seem to cause it19:31
* timeless_mbp slaps NoobMonk3y for abuse of 'mirc'19:32
lcukNoobMonk3y, of course!19:32
RST38hStskeeps: looks like it all comes down to eMMC traffic (swap is there!)19:32
pupnik_thumbnailer is off19:32
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NoobMonk3y\me cant remember the me command19:32
javispedroyes, I agree with RST19:32
pupnik_can i kill browserd somehow to see if that helps?19:32
* NoobMonk3y rememembered it19:32
javispedrotry moving swap to SD card (for example swapon -p 1000 /dev/mmcblk1p*)19:33
* NoobMonk3y likes a good slapping...19:33
pupnik_phone is off19:33
javispedrono no, it doesn't improve. it gets worse.19:33
NoobMonk3ytis very colourful tho!19:33
NoobMonk3ylcuk, was the ner version of healthcheck lcuk friendly?19:34
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lcukNoobMonk3y, i have been too busy to look at anything on my device19:34
javispedroah, you're the Healthcheck author.19:34
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* NoobMonk3y prepares for another slap19:34
lcukbut i shall update it now whilst i am resting19:34
javispedro~chase NoobMonk3y19:34
* infobot chases NoobMonk3y19:34
* NoobMonk3y rides infobot round the room19:35
lcuki nearly reflashed my personal device the other night19:35
NoobMonk3ycool lcuk :)19:35
lcuki had battery out and usb cable in and flasher waiting and everything before i realised it was the wrong one19:35
javispedrowhat do you mean with "lcuk friendly"? I'm curious.19:35
pupnik_ok now "web" not responding and closed and cpu use is down19:35
lcukjavispedro, i find crashes19:35
NoobMonk3yhis was acting odd. was vanishing on him.19:36
lcuki have been keeping updated with it19:36
javispedrolcuk-n900's friendly.19:36
lcukooh 94kb19:36
NoobMonk3ythink it is because i cant code lol. removed threading and that should fix it19:36
pupnik_so in my case i always have gotten back to responsive when browser is fully closed19:36
NoobMonk3yodd it happenned to no one else19:36
lcuknot really19:36
lcukmy system is a bit special19:36
lcukactually "special"19:37
NoobMonk3ynew icon too, hehe19:37
lcuki liked the old one :)19:37
lcukooooops :P19:37
NoobMonk3yand emailed for a bugtracker too, so when that is done, final prob is the audio tools dependency19:37
lcukit has nice stars effect as it closes19:38
NoobMonk3yso did i, but someone put effort into the new one, hehe19:38
lcukdid you add some debugging console output19:38
NoobMonk3ysome reason, the audio tools doesnt install with the app.19:38
NoobMonk3ynot yet, only had an hour19:39
NoobMonk3ymissus is currently driving me to a chinese :)19:39
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* lcuk ponders how to check qt19:40
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NoobMonk3yshould get some free time tomorrow to add it.19:40
lcuki think its the qt on this machine19:41
NoobMonk3yhmmmmm thats not good.19:41
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NoobMonk3ybrb 2 mins. need to check map19:41
lcukhaha just carry on driving east19:42
NoobMonk3ylol! i am scary19:42
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NoobMonk3yvia a tescos lol19:43
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lcukNoobMonk3y, whats odd is that your healthcheck used to work19:44
NoobMonk3ylcuk, no idea how to reply to that on xchat...19:45
* lcuk writes healthcheck healthcheck app19:46
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NoobMonk3ywill add debugging 2moro. assuming it is still doing it?19:47
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lcukNoobMonk3y, i will triple confirm whether its my machine or extensions to your app by putting older version back on19:49
lcukif you remind me later ill do it then19:49
NoobMonk3ydo what?19:49
NoobMonk3yive gota bottle or two of wine to get thru so prob wont b in a fit state for much tonight19:50
lcukNoobMonk3y, i will just install a couple of older versions and see which run19:50
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g0tchahey guys, does the N900 support video calls?19:52
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* NoobMonk3y is trying to hold a conversation, eat a boost and use irc int the car at the same time19:53
NoobMonk3ywho said men cant multitask19:53
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VeggenI once did an rebus rally (the kind of competition where you'll solve tasks and get places, perhaps with practical stuff underway...19:55
Veggen...and one of the tasks was knitting as far as you could during the competition.19:56
Veggenthe only one who could knit properly (we were all men ;) were the only one with the drivers license.19:56
Veggen*that* was multitasking.19:56
NoobMonk3yi'm pretty good at breathing and blinking at the same time. dowes that count?19:57
lcukprove it19:58
NoobMonk3ydoing it now.... go meeeeeeeee19:58
lcukNoobMonk3y, i just realised19:59
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lcukthe console log for your application is... odd19:59
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NoobMonk3yooo is it?20:00
lcukit gives a gtk warning20:00
lcukarent you using qt20:00
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lcukliq-n900:/home/opt/healthcheck# python healthcheck.py20:02 GtkWarning: gtk_widget_set_sensitive: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed20:02
lcuk  app = QtGui.QApplication(sys.argv)20:02 GtkWarning: Can't set a parent on a toplevel widget20:02
lcuk  app = QtGui.QApplication(sys.argv)20:02
lcukSegmentation fault20:02
maherwhere does the email cient modest hide its documentation -  in particular where do I find the editor key bindings?20:03
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GeneralAntillesMore freaking free space on my phone than my boot volume.20:10
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g0tchaso the N900 doesnt support video calls? can that be changed with a fw update or something?20:11
satmdit works partially it seems20:12
Arkenoilooks like i tracked down my traffic eater.  rss reader appears to ignore "update via wifi only" setting, which costs me up to $150 so far, i think :-/20:12
satmdsoftware problem, I think20:12
pupnik_ow Arkenoi20:12
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GeneralAntillesg0tcha, sure, just about anything can be changed with a software update.20:12
g0tchaGeneralAntilles, why is such a common feature not included out of the box?!20:12
g0tchain a phone like the N90020:12
GeneralAntillesBecause it's a computer before it's a phone? :)20:13
GeneralAntillesMany common phone features are not included out of the box20:13
GeneralAntillesBecause the N900 is a phone behind just about everything else it is.20:13
ShadowJKI think they'd do mms before 3g video calls, 3g video sharing, 3g image sharing, 3g push-to-talk, 3g this and 3g that..20:13
GeneralAntillesNot really20:13
g0tchano software out there that enables this feature?20:13
GeneralAntillesWeird, maybe, if you're new to Maemo.20:13
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g0tchai am new to maemo =)20:13
GeneralAntillesWell, now you know.20:14
ShadowJKI think of there was someone out there making video call software they'd probably do internet video calls first, because it's easier..20:14
g0tchaso what youre saying is its difficult for maemo to do a video call?20:14
GeneralAntillesIt's difficult for anybody to do a 3G video call.20:15
g0tchaShadowJK, from what i read its possible using google talk on N90020:15
pupnik_do you know anyone that can receive one g0tcha ?20:15
ArkenoiI'm yet to see a person who actually *uses* 3g video calls except for trying once wondering if the thing really works ;-)20:15
g0tchabut the N97 for example needs fringe to use google talk and i hate fringe20:15
g0tchaor fring*20:15
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ShadowJKWell N97 is symbian based20:15
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GeneralAntillesArkenoi, $10 a month from AT&T20:16
GeneralAntillesHardly seems worth it.20:16
GeneralAntillesGoogle Talk voice and chat are supported out of the box.20:16
* GeneralAntilles notes the N900 has exposed a massive bug for the 3rd time this year.20:16
* g0tcha takes notes20:17
* GeneralAntilles reboots because both Apple and Nokia are incompetent.20:17
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pupnik_what is the proper filename extension for libavformat file format detected.20:25
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GAN900Kernel panic to top off the lovely cake20:26
GAN900hildon-thumbnailer needs to burn20:27
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pupnik_m4v seems to load then stop in media player20:28
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maherhow do i delete lines in the modest email editor?20:30
timeless_mbpGAN900: what did finder do?20:30
timeless_mbpi've got some really amusing behavior from finder20:30
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timeless_mbpit gets really pissed if $HOME changes20:30
GAN900timeless_mbp, error -1081020:31
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GAN900After connecting and trying to browse an N900 eMMC20:31
GAN900The procedure goes something like:20:32
GAN900Plugin, select mass storage, click the N900 in the sidebar20:32
GAN900click the MacOS folder20:32
GAN900Relaunch Finder20:32
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GAN900Error -10810 when trying to relaunch20:32
GAN900Reboot, kernel panic, reboot again, back to normal.20:33
SpeedEvilThey go overboard on these verbose error messages don't they.20:33
jacekowskiuse normal os20:33
GAN900Reproducibility is about 3/5020:33
jacekowskilike windows20:33
jacekowskior linux20:33
arachnistjacekowski: OS, by definition, is supposed to help people get stuff done. windows doesn't fit in that definition20:34
jacekowskiwell, it helps me20:34
arachnist(at least for me)20:34
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GAN900Yeah, wasn't looking for input on my OS choice. :)20:35
GAN900javispedro, likely already been filed a hundred times.20:35
GAN900SpeedEvil, very much legacy. But at least they're googleable. Plus you never really see them anymore.20:36
GAN900I guess it's slightly more friendly than illegal operation in Windows.20:36
javispedroThe operation failed: Success.20:37
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GAN900Anyway, I'm off. Later, folks.20:42
javispedrobye gan20:42
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javispedrospinning beach ball of death I guess20:46
javispedroabuse of flash -- check20:47
javispedroand why it does not let one enter "spun for a day"?20:48
doc|homebecause the developers didn't think people were that dumb20:48
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eichihello, is there something similar to connection handler in maemo 5?20:52
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timeless_mbp? icd?20:53
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Stskeepsnethogs? interesting21:13
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StskeepsArkenoi: submit a bug and if you're a hacker, it's oss21:15
wazdhello people :)21:16
Stskeepslo wazdie21:16
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simoneb_has anyone tried to load maps on the n900 with a ubuntu/linux box?21:17
Stskeepssimoneb_: look for jaffas post on ovi maps precaching21:17
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mahersimoneb_: you can just download them and unpack them n the right place21:18
Stskeeps , scroll down to you find it21:18
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simoneb_should be this one thanks21:19
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simoneb_looks like the map applications is useless anyway without a network connection...21:21
Stskeepsthere's some bugs around it21:23
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simoneb_some bugs that make it useless without a connection?21:23
Stskeepswell, there is two sides21:23
Stskeepsagps helps it not to take 12 or 24 mins to get a fix21:24
Stskeepsagps need a connection21:24
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simoneb_ok i could just wait.. but jaffa's page says you can't search for destinations without an internet connection21:26
simoneb_or should i read "network" as in mobile network?21:27
Stskeepsgprs is fine21:27
Stskeepsnetwork is anything connecting to internet21:28
simoneb_ok, i mean, i don't have a data plan21:29
simoneb_so, i guess, no navigation for me with the n90021:30
simoneb_not even if i download the maps21:30
Stskeepsn900 is kinda made for a data plan and well worth it21:30
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javispedroyes, no navigation for you.21:31
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javispedro... unless you buy sygic.21:32
simoneb_ehh, the cheapest dataplan for my operator is in the 80€ range, i have wifi at home and at work, so it would be really just for the navigation...21:33
simoneb_sygic may be an option at this point21:33
* lcuk wnats a roamable dataplan21:33
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lcuktransfer unlimited local account with you to destination country21:33
Stskeepssimoneb_: a small data plan with 250mb or so, or cost of data being in acceptable range21:34
Stskeepsgprs usually is contained as a as-you-go cost21:35
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simoneb_pay-as-you-go data plans seems still too advanced for my weird country21:35
simoneb_well, nevermind21:36
Stskeepswhat country?21:36
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simoneb_italy of course!21:36
Stskeepsmeh, if poland has sane plans..21:36
simoneb_poland is maybe the most advanced country in europe regarding internet services21:38
Stskeepsdoubt it21:38
simoneb_no, really21:38
simoneb_well, dinner time. thank you.21:39
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javispedrooh, SDL doesn't listen to XRRScreenChangeNotifyEvent s.21:58
javispedrothe modes list is generated at startup and never refreshed, so everything crashes on rotation :(21:58
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hrwhelp I need ;(22:08
hrwI use one of Polish sip provider (tlenofon) and maemo5 can login into sip but cannot make any calls. does anyone had similar problem?22:09
pupnik_I have a friend who gie me sip on his box22:11
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hrwI have public phone number with this account22:18
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pupnik_how bout a POSITIVE LIST for sites which get enabled flash/javascript in micro-b?22:25
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pupnik_  .pnd instant mobile linux software install, and a games/emus collection beyond ours - with no community yet...22:29
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bnhwCould someone help me with the LocationAPI? for Maemo 5? I've tried compiling & running the example code on the wiki, but it just exits silently when ran. The GPS icon flashes in the control panel, so I assume it's starting gpsd okay.22:47
jebbahrw: this is how i did my SIP configuration:
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sivanghi all22:50
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sivangis actually maemo-launcher ?22:50
* NoobMonk3y is a fat pig22:50
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mikkovjavispedro: I am uploading tuxracer22:50
hrwjebba: will check22:50
mikkovgltron should be there22:51
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jebbatuxracer? cool. Would be awesome if it used accelerometer  :)22:52
mikkovit doesn't for now22:53
lcuktheres an accel joystick thing isnt there22:53
lcuknot sure how integrated with games it will be22:54
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* NoobMonk3y blinks22:56
lcukNoobMonk3y, still on your way to china?22:58
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NoobMonk3ylcuk : feel like a chinese man tho! stuffed and at the pub.23:00
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ptltell me23:01
ptlwhat's the matter with using a FAT32 partition anyway?23:01
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ptlit doesn't make windows computers access this partition more easily23:01
ptlbecause Windows doesn't use its block device drivers to access it23:02
ptlit access the partition in a higher level, files and directories23:02
Corsacptl: it still accesses a filesystem, you know?23:02
Corsacwell, it does indeed access a block device23:02
Corsacvirtual maybe, but still23:03
Tuxprobehow the hell do i reset the failed installation of samba??23:03
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ptlCorsac: hmm... via USB Mass storage?23:05
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cpscottiHey.. is there a dummy package for the n900/maemo for installing all the "factory" packages?23:08
cpscottisomeone here did a VERY bit apt-get remove --purge23:08
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bnhwcpscotti: I'm having a look through my package list23:11
cpscottibnhw: thanks.. I look for the package with the biggest list of dependencies in a way23:12
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bnhwcpscotti: I could give you a complete list of my installed packages23:15
bnhwBut that might be a bit overkill23:15
cpscottibnhw:  I found a "Maemo5" package in app manager23:16
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cpscotti(I couldnt find with apt-cache search23:16
bnhwAha. Did it work?23:16
cpscottimaybe this is the trick23:16
cpscottilets see23:16
cpscottiit is installing23:16
cpscottibut he's not very happr23:16
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cpscottiand now its restarting..or everything will be ok or I won't even have a desktop..23:18
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bnhwcpscotti: Well, there's always reflash.23:18
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cpscottiok.. then I have another problem.. is there a flasher tool for 64bit linux?23:19
cpscottivc reflashing was my first idea.. but..23:19
bnhwYeah, I've flashed from 64-bit Ubuntu23:19
bnhwIt's a 32-bit binary, but it works23:21
cpscotti(ps: everything seems ok! and usable again.. seems that the "Maemo5" package on the appmanager does the trick)23:21
cpscottithanks bnhw23:21
cpscottiI'll have to use it soon23:21
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bnhw: )23:22
cpscottiah.. u had to do the "force architecture" trick then.. right?23:22
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bnhwNo, I just used the .tar.gz23:22
cpscottiahh.. ok then23:23
cpscottithanks !23:23
cpscottiwell.. gotta go23:23
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mmarc__so, reflashing affects only internal 256MB, not the whole flash memory. I'm looking for a way to reset the whole flash memory. Could we format it or whatever?23:27
bnhwmmarc__: ?23:28
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mmarc__bnhw: well, "Flasing the eMMC resets the MyDocs folder contents to factory settings." - that's not true, both Music and Radio folders I've created in MyDocs were there AFTER REFLASHING, as well as all their contents. Maybe bad reflashing?..23:33
mmarc__absolutely what?23:34
DocScrutinizerbad flashing23:34
bnhwmmarc__: Well, you could always use dd23:34
mmarc__I performed sudo flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R23:35
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satmdor the data was on a mmc23:35
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DocScrutinizerwhich exactly flashed your rootfs and kept the eMMC, aiui23:36
satmddoc is right, me not23:37
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mmarc__now I'm in a loss: wiki doc says MyDocs will be reflashed, now you say rootfs will be, and eMMC kept? What's the difference?..23:37
satmdmmarc__: there's a seperate flash with EMMC in its name, only that one resets the emmc23:38
DocScrutinizercheck VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin vs _PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin23:38
satmdand the wiki says so, too23:38
mmarc__damn, I'm pretty blind, sorry23:39
DocScrutinizerc&p goes a long way ;-P23:39
mmarc__so, I've flashed only root thing, not MyDocs, ahs23:39
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pupnikany cebit visitors here?23:50
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heoacan you run nmap, screen, vim and mutt well in n810? I mean if you have installed debian or similar to it?23:59
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