IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-03-04

SpeedEvilBut it comes with source.00:00
Arif_the battery works pretty well though =P00:00
villagerhmm, after reboot, hildon-home seems to have sort of hung... is using lots of cpu, and shows none of my widgets, though I can switch between desktops (the wallpaper moves)... anyone seen that? or know how to fix?00:01
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Arif_reboot again?00:02
villagertried that00:02
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villagerguess another time can't hurt00:03
Arif_delete everything from the desktop?00:03
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FredrIQyou cannot change username in maemo i guess? :P00:05
FredrIQwould be nice to change it to... well, something more personally than "user", even if it isn't the most important thing or something00:06
villagerArif_: would rather think of a better solution00:06
cehtehyou may try to set up a second user account with the same uid .. and report how it works :)00:06
Arif_villager, it's that personalised? :P00:07
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villagerArif_: sure00:07
mgjSo i'm an idiot. I simply cannot fathom how to get root on the Nokia N810. Any tips? Found some site telling me to install ssh-server and allowing root logins, but that doesn't help me much when i cant install ssh-server without root00:07
villagerthese widgets used to work, no reason they shouldn't continue to somehow00:07
villagerhmm, perhaps it's omweather, could try removing that... if I can figure out where it's supposed to be without seeing any widgets00:08
villagernah, not even the X to delete it is showing up00:09
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SpeedEvilI got off stuff happening with widgets once.00:09
SpeedEvileventually Iu uninstalled and reinstalled them all, and it worked00:10
SpeedEvilAlso - try a sw update00:10
villageras in going to app manager to uninstall?00:10
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FredrIQi love the updater in maemo00:11
villagerwell, my sw is up-to-date, but I can try removing omweather00:11
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* SpeedEvil hugs infobot.00:11
villagerbut I'm using widgets I probably can't uninstall, such as rss reader and calendar00:12
FredrIQin my previous phone (P1i), i needed to set up an usb connection, wait for the firmware upgrade to proceed (could take hours), in maemo, it's like updating a normal app, and it goes really fast too (5min)00:12
villagerhmm, app manager is really slow when hildon-home is eating all the cpu00:13
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arachnistFredrIQ: most of the phones on the market can't do OTA upgrades00:14
FredrIQi know. :p00:14
arachnistFredrIQ: i remember my old se k800i could, though00:14
FredrIQhm, btw, about extras-devel, what is so "DON'T ACTIVATE IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DO" with it? the worst thing that can happen is that you run out of space in root00:14
arachnistFredrIQ: which is a bad thing00:15
Stskeepsor it can kill you00:15
arachnistFredrIQ: n900 can have trouble booting when / is full00:15
Arif_all S60 phones from the last few years have OTA updating o.O00:15
FredrIQhm, ok00:15
arachnistArif_: winmo can't, iphone can't, android can't00:16
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Arif_eyephone can't do anything without a cable ;(00:16
arachnistanyway, i'm off00:16
ShadowJKFredrIQ, if you want I couod upload an app to -devel that frees up more than 100 megs on rootfs00:17
Arif_"rm -rf *"00:18
FredrIQsudo gainroot first. ;)00:18
GeneralAntillesFredrIQ, possibly it can brick your device. :)00:18
Arif_that'll make the program too big00:18
FredrIQbut, rm -rf * will do nothing with the rootfs without gainroot00:18
ShadowJKyep, or a suid binary that does rm -rf /00:19
Arif_maybe it'll replace your bootloader with hello kitty pictures00:19
villagerhmm, omweather wasn't it00:19
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FredrIQhm, how does easydebian work, does it boot an alternate os virtually or what?00:20
villagerit's a chroot00:20
Arif_no idea, but it has a word processor that takes 7 hours to start up00:20
FredrIQtried openoffice one time00:21
FredrIQit took like 10 minutes just booting00:21
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FredrIQand maked the whole OS lag00:21
FredrIQ(yay my english)00:21
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jon1012what is the state of qml in maemo ?00:22
* Arif_ wants quickoffice on Moomo00:22
jon1012I mean, I have an existing app with gtk00:22
jon1012and want to have it with qt... is QML a good way ?00:22
FredrIQKOffice will work fine, i guess00:22
FredrIQand have more features00:22
odin_this Qt 4.5 and 4.6, is AT the _ONLY_ ABI being changed/broken ?00:22
Arif_dunno, it worked great on N9500:22
odin_and can some apps use Qt 4.5 and some Qt4.6 at the same time ?  i.e. is there any shared data areas thats incompatible?00:23
odin_can Qt 4.5 be compiled and  distributed in /opt (as an optional install) ? for the PR 1.2 release?00:24
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wizkoderWant to run my first compiled program with scratchbox. And I get this. "QGtkStyle cannot be used together with the GTK_Qt engine."00:24
FredrIQif i plays with extras-devel, i guess i would just have to df -h sometimes so it doesn't get problematic near 100%00:25
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villagerwonder how I can remove widgets when the hildon-home doesn't show them in the desktop editor mode?00:25
GeneralAntilleslardman, muahaha!00:26
lardmanevening chaps00:26
GeneralAntillesWe're free of your tyranny!00:26
lardmanhey GeneralAntilles00:26
* FredrIQ is going to change computer-->phone00:26
lardmanwhy's that? Have I left the front page?!00:26
FredrIQ7run shutdown.exe -s -t 000:26
FredrIQyay my shift key00:26
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GeneralAntillesbug #935100:26
povbotBug Random members not so random00:26
lardmanI was getting used to it ;)00:27
GeneralAntillesA $100 donation to X-Fade's "I need a new suit" fund may further your ends, though. :P00:27
* SpeedEvil passes X-Fade the 34 of clubs.00:28
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* lardman prepares to do battle with QImage and QPixmap00:30
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NarNiaSalut quelqun peut me dire ou il et le salon francais00:33
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FIQyay xchat00:33
lardmanJe ne sais pas si il y a un00:33
lardmanFIQ: yes, that was(n't) aimed at you ;)00:34
NarNialardman tu parle francais ?00:34
lardmanun peu00:34
FIQwhoever that is the xchat port author, the nicklist has minor problems with big font size00:34
NarNiaCes as un tchat francophone ici00:34
FIQ(i prefer 20, easier to read for me)00:35
Lumpio-NarNia: Could you speak English? >_>00:35
NarNiaLumpio- Moi parler francais00:36
congerrocan i use clutter in maemo5? there is libclutter on the phone but no -dev00:36
Lumpio-NarNia: I cannot understand a word.00:36
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NarNiaLumpio- quoi ?00:36
dreginhi hi00:36
Lumpio-NarNia: English! Do you speak it!00:37
NarNiaLumpio- toi tes une sale merde comme tes pas francais tu comprend que dalle00:37
GeneralAntillesLumpio-, this isn't Pulp Fiction.00:37
Lumpio-NarNia: Meeerde!00:37
NarNiatg nan ta gule00:37
Lumpio-*sigh* French people are probably the worst @refusing to learn English00:37
NarNiaLumpio- quoi00:37
NarNiatu me comprend ,00:37
Lumpio-je tu non comprend00:38
dreginwhat's the craic with catorise? I've installed it and it doesn't seem to have done anything....00:38
GeneralAntillesdregin, it should've rearranged your applications menu.00:38
NarNiaallez vous faire enculer00:38
dreginGeneralAntilles: I assumed as much. Everything's exactly the same as it was before :\00:38
GeneralAntillesdregin, hum, I wonder.00:38
GeneralAntillesdregin, restart?00:38
Lumpio-sacre bleu!00:39
dreginwas thinking that myself00:39
GeneralAntillesdregin, also try installing something else.00:39
GeneralAntillesdregin, though I can't imagine what's up.00:39
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dreginwhat shell comes with maemo by default?00:39
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dreginI'm looking for something similar to .zshrc/.bashrc to put alias' into...00:39
villagerlooks like the rss reader was the problem00:39
GeneralAntillesdregin, Busybox00:40
dreginah yus I noticed that when I launched the terminal00:40
dregindur :)00:40
GeneralAntillesdregin, bash may be available in the repos.00:41
GeneralAntillesdregin, not sure what the status is on Fremantle, though.00:41
dreginI'm quite happy to use busybox if I can get some sort of config file00:41
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dreginnever associated that with shell specific stuff00:41
NarNiadregin arsehole00:42
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congerroNarNia: ta 12 ans ou qoi?00:42
GeneralAntillesNarNia, unprovoked attacks are not appreciated.00:42
NarNiacongerro a bah tes francais toi00:43
NarNiaje comprend que dalle00:43
dreginshit troll is shit00:43
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NarNiaKhertan tes francais ?00:44
NarNiacongerro tes un francais ?00:44
crashanddieNarNia: les apostrophes ne sont pas interdites sur ce channel, merci00:44
crashanddieNarNia: et merci de parler anglais, le channel est anglais00:44
NarNiacrashanddie In bah ces de la merde00:44
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NarNiaya pas un salon francais00:45
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*** NarNia was kicked by crashanddie (au revoir, bonne journee)00:45
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crashanddieI'll handle it in private00:45
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lardmancrashanddie: good stuff, am reaching the end of my vast knowledge of French! :)00:46
lardmancrashanddie: and hi :)00:46
fnordianslipmy IRC client makes a gunshot noise when you kick people and it always scares the shit out of me :)00:46
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GeneralAntillesfnordianslip, I turned off all of the varied sound effects Adium tends to spit out.00:46
fnordianslipI'm using Colloquy on my mac00:46
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GAN900I recommend the Adium beta for IRC00:47
GAN900faster and much less buggy than Colloquy00:47
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lardmanhmm, why does QImage require input data to be 32bit aligned00:47
lardmanthat's rather annyoying00:47
fnordianslipturning the sounds off might be a good idea, but it breaks the monotony to find myself hiding under the table occasionally00:47
GAN900yMous is a good group chat theme.00:48
GAN900I had to after too many damn Europeans woke me up highlighting me at 4 in the morning. ;)00:48
fnordianslipbah.  only a lightweight would be asleep at 4am00:48
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crashanddieFYI, the guy doesn't know what Freenode is, just wanted to find a french channel to talk. He found00:50
lardmanah fair enough00:50
crashanddie#ubuntu-fr but that mustn't have lasted long, I told him to use alis00:51
* fnordianslip wishes he had the foresight to include an enumerated message type for "FFS, do something right for a change" in a network comms protocol for a distributed system00:51
crashanddieanyway, late for work00:51
lardmancu :)00:51
tremnite all, sweet dreams00:51
crashanddieGeneralAntilles & GAN900: you plonker, I'll never get that fucking 40d00:52
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, that's because usuk.00:52
crashanddieno, that's because you made me bid on an auction I didn't need in the first place00:52
crashanddieI now I have neither the money, nor the camera00:52
crashanddieI reported the guy to ebay for not having a valid phone number in his profile, and the only thing I got back was a "Please complete this survey to tell us what you think of customer service"00:53
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, the waiting just makes the arrival so much sweeter. :D00:53
crashanddiethere won't be any arrival00:54
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crashanddiethe guy didn't think he'd sell it so low, so now he ignores me and waits for me to cancel the tranaction00:54
crashanddieor he found a dofus who bought it from him for twice the price00:54
lardmanwhat did you buy?00:54
crashanddiecanon 40d, body00:54
* GeneralAntilles contemplates making pasta for dinner00:55
lardmanget the roller out00:55
crashanddieanyway, 5 minutes till workday starts, and I haven't gotten out of bed yet00:55
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lardmanwhy is C++ so bloody picky about signedness?01:01
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lardmanand what does this mean?: error: no matching function for call to 'QImage::fromData(const uchar*&, int, QImage::Format&)'01:02
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* n00bmonk3y spammed extras-devel again :D01:08
n00bmonk3ylcuk awake?01:09
* n00bmonk3y prods lcuk01:09
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fnordiansliplardman, i guess you are passing the wrong types in, or they aren't consts when they should be01:10
lardmanthat *& business is confusing01:11
lardmansorted now though thanks, last argument needed to be cast01:11
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wormsxullarapsys_: les fai te dictent une loi économique, c'est bien plus pervers. et je ne les vois pas trop s'élever quand on leur demande d'espionner leurs clients01:12
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wormsxullaoops, wrong channel, sorry01:12
fnordianslipwell, the error is suggesting that you are trying to pass in a reference to a pointer, but that no method is defined that accepts that set of actual parameters.  dunno QT, though, so can't offer specific help01:12
lardmanreference to a pointer, hmm, I was passing a "const uchar *"01:13
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lardmanwhat is a reference to a pointer for that matter? :)01:13
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* n00bmonk3y blinks01:14
fnordianslipgood question01:14
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fnordianslipespecially when it is a const too01:14
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lardmanah well, I just cast it to a const uchar * and it seemed happy, very odd01:15
fnordianslipis it an input or an output of the method?01:15
lardmaninput to the method01:15
fnordianslipnot a buffer to be filled, or similar01:15
lardmanfilled buffer to be passed in01:15
fnordianslipoh, yeah, fromData suggests that.  d'oh!01:16
lardmanI don;t think it likes my constness anyway01:17
fnordianslipconst_cast ftw01:17
lardmanso I'll fill it pixel by pixel instead and hope that works01:17
MouseyHAIL ERIS01:17
fnordianslipindeedy.  plenty of discord around me today01:17
* fnordianslip is glad i built ddate for my n90001:18
fnordianslipnow my n900 is equipped to tell me that: "Today is Boomtime,the 62nd day of Chaos in the YOLD 3176"01:21
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sar3thfor installing in scratchbox, i shoudl ./configure --prefix=/scratchbox, righto?01:21
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lardmansar3th: probably not01:22
lardmansar3th: if you're installing from within sb, then just use the normal prefix as it sees its own fs01:22
fnordianslipmost certainly not, probably01:22
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ptlfnordianslip: show it in a widget01:33
ptlthere's some program that shows the results of command in widgets01:33
fnordianslipptl: DesktopCommandWidget ftw :)01:34
fnordianslipptl, do ya want a copy of the ddate bin i built?01:34
ptlthe bad thing about ddate is that it is not internationalized01:34
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ptlwell, at least it is not translated to my language01:35
ptlfnordianslip: no... thanks, I might use it as an exercise for building things in scratchbox. :)01:35
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fnordianslipwhat is boomtime in your language?01:35
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lardmananyone used QImage::setPixel before?01:35
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ptlGood question. My language is brazilian portuguese. I think I'd translate it as "hora do estouro" or "era do um".01:36
ptl*"era do bum"01:36
fnordianslipit doesn't have the same kinda of ring to it :)01:36
sar3thlardman: so ./configure shoudl be enough?01:37
ptlsurely doesn't01:37
ptlmany things are fnord lost in translation.01:37
lardmansar3th: yep01:37
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sar3thi still have a hard time getting used to scratchbox01:37
ptlthere's an old saying that says "all your base are belong to us !!" and it has everything to do with this case.01:38
lardmanjoin the club! :)01:38
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fnordianslipptl, is there a translation of Principia Discordia document either?01:38
ptlsar3th: scratchbox 1 or scratchbox 2?01:38
Proteouslaunch every zig for great justice01:38
ljpi still have a hard time getting used to scratchbox and I have used it since the n770 came out01:38
ptlfnordianslip: yes, but these times/dates are untranslated01:38
sar3thptl: ...01:38
sar3thheck if i know01:38
MandatorWould anybody here mind to help me with the wiki ?01:38
ptlsar3th: there are two completely different scratchboxes, and I confused them in the beginning. I could swear I was using scratchbox 2 but I was actually using Scratchbox 1.01:39
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ptlwell, they are completely different. But don't ask me to remember the differences, I just erased it from my memory, I guess. :P01:40
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ptlactually I never learned to use scratchbox 2, i just had a glimpse about its commands and then realized I was using sb 1.01:41
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fnordianslipptl: check this out.  i was howling :)
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fnordianslipwhat kind of sick coder used the discordian calendar in a database01:48
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Lumpio-I laughed at the bug report where someone said ddate should be moved because some users might have "more traditional values"01:48
Lumpio-What an idiot.01:48
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crashanddiemode #maemo +b01:49
fnordianslipcrashanddie: does that mean we have to talk in binary now?01:49
n00bmonk3ythat is pretty funny01:50
WizzupHas anyone used wpa_supplicant on n900 before?01:50
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WizzupI can get it to connect to my home network, but I somehow don't seem to be able to actually make the phone use the interface01:50
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crashanddieFreenode seriously fails sometimes01:51
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*** crashanddie sets mode: -b *!*mierda@*.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net01:52
*** crashanddie sets mode: -b *!*x@*.dyn.optonline.net01:52
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* n00bmonk3y nods01:53
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crashanddie-ChanServ- You are not authorized to perform this operation. :(01:55
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n00bmonk3ydid you try and bend chanserv over again? ;)01:58
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lardman~lart QImage for being really bloody crap01:59
* infobot takes a big bite out of QImage's jugular vein for being really bloody crap01:59
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lardmanfull of handy utility classes my arse02:00
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fnordianslipits probably a bazillian times better than using MFC though02:02
lardmanno doubt, but would be faster to write this in asm02:02
fnordianslipmy favourite instruction is EIEIO02:03
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lardmannothing to do with a farm ;)02:04
fnordianslipthey must have had the song in mind02:04
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FIQthe only thing i miss with the N900 is a N64 emulator02:05
FIQelse than that, awesome02:05
WizzupSo if noone uses wpa_supplicant, how do you guys connect to PEAP wireless networks?02:06
FIQMHeiGB18030C-Medium Light 2002:06
* timeless_mbp looks around02:06
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* n00bmonk3y blinks02:10
lardmanhmm, what is up with the qt-maemo channel, tumbleweeds gallore02:10
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n00bmonk3yno idea, never been in there :P02:14
fnordianslipn00bmonk3y, chav'glish, eh?02:15
lardmanjust a bit quiet when I want to ask some questions02:15
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* Wizzup wonders what nokia's reasoning was when they made their own wifi stuff rather than using wpa_supplicant02:17
WizzupNormally I wouldn't mind, but it simply doesn't work02:17
lardmanwill wonders never cease! it works!02:17
lardmanit's alive!!02:17
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n00bmonk3ylol fnord02:22
n00bmonk3yyeah :)02:22
n00bmonk3ysorry too many windows open02:22
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Wizzup Ah... /me waits impatientienly for next update02:27
povbotBug 1635: Eduroam (EAP-TTLS+PAP) WiFi auth02:27
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marmouteha eduroam02:40
lardmannight all02:40
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lcukn00bmonk3y, i crashed with last nights again02:40
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Wizzupeduroam is very useful02:44
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Askanican someone explain to me all the meebo fuzz?03:52
maheranyone good with fcron? I' having problems getting it to run /etc/cron.daily/*03:52
crashanddieAskani: meego?03:53
Askanithats it03:53
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GeneralAntillesMore specific question?03:54
crashanddieAskani: Intel and Nokia have decided to merge forces and bring a new platform to the world. MeeGo will be taking the better parts of Maemo and Moblin to create a platform that will work seamlessly on phones, mobile devices, netbooks... <insert anything else here>03:54
maherAskani: suppose you'd heard you were meant to have a smartphone stragey, but were completely overcome by corporate confusion....03:54
Askanijust to be sure03:55
AskaniI mean, Nokia makes us believe that N97 would be great03:55
Askaniand it isnt03:55
Askanireally bad piece of technology03:55
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Askaniand two months later, boom N90003:56
maherAskani: when did a company ever make anything and not tell you it was great?03:56
AskaniMaemo this, maemo that03:56
Askaniand then, boom meego03:56
Askanijust getting lost03:56
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phrecklol, people are still crying?03:57
crashanddiemaher: please don't feed the trolls03:57
phrecki wish they would contribute instead of cry and run to the fruitphone.03:58
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GeneralAntillesI wish Nokia would quit poisoning their community.03:58
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crashanddieI wish people stopped being narrow-minded twats and calling competitors stupid nicknames03:59
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maherok - i don't get it - why can't calling fcrontab -l (as root) look at /etc/fcron.conf?04:06
phreckoh cmon04:08
phreckfruitphone is funny.04:08
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maherbingo - /etc/fcron.conf must be _exactly_ 644 - 640 doesn't work as must check to see if its 64404:12
maherin spite of what the documentation says...04:13
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prontoyay, i got a ps3 controller today, and was using it to play snes games on teh n900 :o04:32
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infobotSince Thu Mar  4 01:30:25 2010, there have been 1 modification, 8 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 2 commands.  I have been awake for 1h 53m 44s this session, and currently reference 116874 factoids.  I'm using about 16348 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 139.82/6.16 child 0.33/0.1605:24
infobotbitte, crashanddie05:24
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v infobot05:24
DocScrutinizerchanserv got funny ideas, no?05:26
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DocScrutinizer~weather EDDN05:27
infobotNuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2010.03.04 0320 UTC; Dew Point: 21 F (-6 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.91 in. Hg (1013 hPa); Relative Humidity: 68%; Temperature: 30 F (-1 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the NE (040 degrees) at 6 MPH (5 KT); Windchill: 23 F (-5 C)05:27
infobotthanks, DocScrutinizer05:27
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crashanddieDocScrutinizer: I told CS to do that :)05:30
crashanddie~weather brisbane05:30
infobotI can't find station code "BRISBANE" (see or for ICAO locations codes).05:30
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crashanddie~weather YBBN05:33
infobotBrisbane Airport M. O, Australia; (YBBN) 27-23S 153-06E 5M; last updated: 2010.03.04 0300 UTC; Dew Point: 64 F (18 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.85 in. Hg (1011 hPa); Relative Humidity: 61%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 78 F (26 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the SE (130 degrees) at 13 MPH (11 KT)05:33
crashanddieDocScrutinizer: 27C difference :P05:34
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ptl~weather ---> java SE and java ME for N90005:37
infobotI can't find station code "HTTP://MAEMOS.RU/2009/12/20/JAVA-NOKIA-N900-MAEMO-5-OPERA-MINI/ ---> JAVA SE AND JAVA ME N900" (see or for ICAO locations codes).05:38
ptlno ~weather line05:38
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crashanddieptl: java has been working on the N900 for quite a while now05:40
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DocScrutinizermaybe not in .RU ;-P05:42
ptlcrashanddie: yes, but that's an unified solution, a single zip file. That helps, don't you think?05:42
ptljava SE *and* ME05:42
crashanddiepeople who want to use SE rarely want ME05:42
crashanddieand vice versa05:42
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anotnacjust woke up i had strange dream that there was an firmware update on my n900 when i woke i ran to my n900 and dissapointed myself lol i thought my dream was real06:21
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DocScrutinizerdon't you know dreams are about future, not present?06:23
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crashanddie"My mother in law broke up my marriage." "How'd that happen?" "Well, my wife came home from work one night, and found us in bed together."06:25
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: admit it, you like it06:35
arachnisti like it06:35
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crashanddielook at the price for 4GB and 6GB06:52
crashanddienotice anything weird?06:52
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ali1234crashanddie: but it has a 180 day expiry, so you only have to "top up" every 6 months06:56
crashanddieso topping up every 6 months is worth  losing 2GB of data?06:57
ali1234consider someone who will use 1GB per month06:57
ali1234the 6GB plan will be cheapest for them06:58
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crashanddieali1234: true07:02
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johnx>_< anyone remember if kernel 2.4.19 had a known memory leak (besides the iptables one)?07:12
arachnistthat was like... over 6 years ago07:15
johnx8 years07:15
arachnist8 maybe even07:15
johnxwork related ...07:15
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johnxI have a linux-based (though mostly closed) NAS that's been up for 257 days and it's grinding to a halt07:16
johnxthe RSS of all the processes on the machine don't add up to the amount of memory used07:16
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DocScrutinizerjohnx: don't you think it's silly to ask if somebody can count all the flaws of a 8 year old kernel, from top of his head?07:18
johnxnah. more like taking a shot in the dark that someone remembers07:18
johnxanyways, I should have probably added a <half-joking> to the front of that :)07:19
johnxand I figured someone might get a laugh out of the ancient stuff we're using07:20
crashanddiejohnx: ask it on #linux07:21
crashanddiejohnx: might be the funzors07:21
DocScrutinizerjohnx: for the laugh it was a success07:21
crashanddieactually, I'll do it07:21
trip0man, android is stupid07:23
johnxtrip0, but cheap07:23
johnxit'd make a good motto actually: "Stupid ... but cheap!"07:24
trip0mobile OS's are like prostitutes.  you probably don't want cheap.07:24
johnxheh. but if you're dead set on a hooker and you only have $150 that kinda limits your options07:24
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johnxsome people would just tell you to save up and get something nice later, but not everyone has the willpower to hold out07:25
trip0then you wake up the next morning next to your droid and you think "why didn't i just save up for the n900?"07:25
trip0...probably wishing you were still drunk07:26
johnxyeah, or you shell out $500 for the N900 and think: maybe I should have gotten a used G1 and $350 of vodka07:26
mtnbkrjohnx: lol07:27
arachnisti'd get a droid... if it had a better keyboard07:27
arachnistits keyboard is almoast as bad as typing on a touchscreen07:27
johnxI'm thinking of getting a G1 (and $350 of booze) when I have to return my loaner N90007:27
johnx(not actually getting $350 of booze so much as ... food for the month)07:28
trip0seen the G1... not impressed07:29
johnxplayed with one07:29
johnxdunno if I'm $350 more impressed with the N90007:29
trip0i played with the nexus one for 2 weeks07:29
trip0i was definitely $350 more impressed with the n90007:30
arachnistspeaking of food... i have to stop buying things, unless i'm going to learn how to eat air...07:30
johnxhmm, I'll have to get my hands on a G1 again and see if my vision of the past is just rose tinted ...07:30
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uhsfi am ~400$ impressed by my n900, but i paid ~800$ for it07:31
ptlonly have $150?07:31
* johnx just furnished an apartment from craigslist :>07:31
ptlfor a hooker?07:31
GeneralAntillesjohnx, traitorous thoughts!07:31
ptlhere you can get a hooker for $20, half an hour07:31
johnxptl, well that's the problem right there: half an hour. that's just getting started ...07:32
RST38hmoo johnx07:32
MiXu-Pfft. 5 minutes is plenty! ;)=07:32
johnxRST38h, m00f07:32
trip0MiXu-: +1.  after 10minutes, i'm already snoozing07:32
RST38hSo, lemme see, someone betraying his N900 for a hooker?07:33
MiXu-trip0 =D07:33
johnxGeneralAntilles, eh, dunno how to justify $500 when there are other things on the budget ...07:33
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, may be cheaper by the time return time rolls around.07:33
MiXu-How much does N900 actually sell for in the US at the moment?07:33
johnxGeneralAntilles, $350 cheaper in the next couple weeks?07:33
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trip0MiXu-, i hear 400 on ebay07:34
trip0it's 530 on newegg where i got mine07:34
MiXu-Alright. That's so wrong.07:34
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johnxMiXu-, google says $500 - $530 new07:34
GeneralAntillesjohnx, G1 sucks, though.07:34
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MiXu-In europe it's same numbers, but different currency.07:34
trip0seriously, the G1 is stuck in android 1.5 land07:35
MiXu-$530 becomes 530e07:35
MiXu-(which is $724)07:35
johnxGeneralAntilles, if it shows maps and web pages and lets me make phone calls, text messages and IMs I'm pretty much good07:35
johnxMiXu-, seems kinda steep07:35
RST38hWait, you are looking for the CHEAPEST tablet phone?07:36
MiXu-When N96 hit the stores back in 2008, the price was about $1300 (1e=1,3$)07:36
johnxRST38h, cheapest one with a keyboard and linux, essentially07:36
MiXu-But only for like the first week or two though07:36
RST38hjohnx: ah that limits choices07:37
trip0the G1 doesn't run linux07:37
RST38hjohnx: Are you sure you want Android "linux", to begin with?07:38
johnxRST38h, symbian and winmo drive me up the wall, and I'm stuck on t-mobile USA07:38
trip0android is more like "linooks" than Linux07:38
johnxtrip0, it's "close enough" in most ways07:38
MiXu-iPhone is technically linux too ;)07:39
RST38hjohnx: N900 then. Or suffer for another 9 months and then the next Maemo.07:39
RST38hMiXu: FreeBSD.07:39
johnxand who knows, maybe I'll hack it up and try some of the patches that recently have been getting into mainline to make the MSM in it work in "real" linux07:39
MiXu-Oh, my bad.07:39
johnxRST38h, yeah, you missed the part where I have a better use for $35007:39
RST38hjohnx: That I can understand, yes07:39
trip0a man must have his principles07:40 he can toss them out the window for cheap booze and hookers07:40
RST38hjohnx: but is that better use going to be as much fun? =)07:40
johnxtrip0, I'll drink to that!07:40
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johnxRST38h, well part of it is going to food and part is going to an HDTV, sooo I'd have to say yes07:41
johnxanyways, I'm not giving up on maemo/meego, just the N900 hardware ;)07:41
RST38hjohnx: I would screw HDTV off the list07:41
ptlis it possible to reformat MyDocs as an ext2/ext3 partition?07:41
RST38hjohnx: No, really. After considering all the benefits.07:42
johnxRST38h, then call it a $150 (used) 36" monitor that I can use for watching movies with my wife07:42
RST38h(and, btw, I probably canot insist on N900 specifically, but Droid or Nexus will still be way better than the G1)07:43
RST38hjohnx: Ah07:43
johnx225lbs of CRT lovin'07:43
ptlDroid has its partitions cryptographically signed, you can't change system software07:43
johnxptl, that and being on verizon are a big strike against it07:44
RST38hjohnx: Which brings up a question of whether N900 et al are available used?07:44
RST38hptl: Oh =(07:44
microlithptl: err, I doubt that's true07:44
ptlso instead of the usual half-baked openness of android you'll have a quarter-baked android07:44
microlithunless that doesn't apply to the kernel07:44
johnxmicrolith, why? tivo does the same thing...07:45
ptlmicrolith: ok, i confess that I didn't dig deeper into the subject, I trusted a friend who's a technical guy and has a motorola droid07:45
microlithbecause I work with guys who've taken the Droid and installed a custom kernel on it07:45
ptlBut motorola traditionally locks up their phones tight07:45
microlithptl: aware of that07:46
ptlmaybe they got some hack to do it, some workaround07:46
johnxRST38h, lowest is $465 on fleabay07:46
microlithptl: entirely possible, the Droid has been rooted iirc07:46
RST38hjohnx: Have they reenabled ad skipping in tivo?07:47
johnxRST38h, I have no idea. I'm pretty disillusioned with them overall though07:48
ptlmicrolith: that was the matter, he told me that due to the encryption, even with root access you couldn't do modifications on the root partition (or something like that)07:48
microlithptl: weird, I'll ask about it tomorrow07:49
microlithwouldn't surprise me, and makes me happy I ignored the Droid (and verizon)07:49
RST38hVerizon is good07:49
RST38hIn terms of signal reception07:49
RST38hThe rest is...mhm07:49
johnxalso good at charging a lot of money07:49
RST38hjohnx: they are all good at that07:49
johnxt-mo US is worse at both :)07:50
RST38hjohnx: the only solution is to charge your employer a lot of money, preferably on hourly basis07:50
johnxworking on that :)07:50
ptlThe Droid is a very good device hardware-wise and Android has some merits too07:50
ptlit is really beautiful07:50
RST38hptl: keyboard does suck a bit07:51
johnxRST38h, actually, my employer offered to pay my phone bill, but I have a feeling that comes with certain expectations of being on-call, etc07:51
ptlit has problems, I got three friends with Motorola Droid, and it can be a coincidence, but they're all geeks and confessed to be disappointed with the device07:51
ptlRST38h: but it has four rows, one row more than the N900, I thought it was good when I tried my friend's droid07:51
RST38hjohnx: Of course. Besides, the guy may always start analyzing your call logs for private calls no related to work07:52
johnxRST38h, nah. I'd have to set that up for him ...07:53
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RST38hptl: Felt like a piece of flat plastic film to me =) But yes, 4 rows at least07:54
* RST38h hopes Maemo Devices will not make the same mistake twice07:54
johnxthe mistake of including a keyboard?07:54
johnxremember how they fixed the dpad?07:54
RST38hjohnx: Ah, that's true07:55
RST38hjohnx: But they did add the arrow buttons, at least for americans, so not all is bad07:55
johnxgranted, the d-pad was actually bad enough on the N800 that the arrows almost feel like an improvement07:55
johnxbut really, d-pads are not that hard...the whole situation boggles the mind...07:56
RST38hjohnx: It is weird how everyone mourns the dpad but nobody notices that the basic operaions (running an app, switching between apps) also became harder07:56
johnxI noticed. using the shutter button via camkeyd helps a lot though07:57
RST38hjohnx: task switch was made with 1 touch in Maemo4, in Maemo5 it is 2 touches + some waiting for task switcher to show up07:57
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RST38hjohnx: and running an app is 3 touches *and* a slide *and* another touch07:57
microlithRST38h: but that required screen real estate, no?07:57
microlith(and woe be he that does not put frequently used apps directly on the desktop)07:58
RST38hwhich effectively hides the other apps from me :)07:59
DocScrutinizerworst brainfuck is taskswitcher doesn't work via kbd anymore08:02
GeneralAntillesEr, doesn't?08:02
GeneralAntillesWorks here08:02
GeneralAntillescamkeyd is really useful too08:02
DocScrutinizerUHUH! how?08:02
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DocScrutinizerand THEN?08:03
johnxDocScrutinizer, push the keyboard back in and tap on the screen. :)08:03
* johnx pulls out the marketing book08:03
johnx"touchscreens are the future"08:03
RST38hcapacitive touchscreens!08:04
DocScrutinizertouchscreens are A PITA both to use and to clean08:04
DocScrutinizerand NO I *do not* want a c-ts08:04
johnxcapacitive *buttons* are awesome actually :) my parents' TV set from the 80's (still working) has 13 capacitive channel selector buttons on the front08:05
* johnx tries to find a pic ...08:05
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I hate them08:05
GeneralAntillesYou can never find the right one.08:05
GeneralAntillesSwitching inputs on my Samsung 2343bwx is an unholy pain08:05
johnxGeneralAntilles, you've never even *met* my parents. bit harsh O_o;08:05
GeneralAntillesI have my mouse charging stand set so the input switching button is just to the right of it08:06
RST38hjohnx: non-tactile stuff is still kinda problematic :(08:06
GeneralAntillesOtherwise I hit Auto all the time.08:06
DocScrutinizerI hardly use the mouse on my PC. TS is a botch replacement for a mouse. So WTF would I want to use TS? If I got a kbd08:06
RST38hlooks futuristic like hell but problematic to use08:06
johnxRST38h, actually the buttons were raised and had the numbers clearly written next to them08:06
RST38hanother little details sf writes guessed wrong08:06
RST38hjohnx: Ah, that changes things08:06
johnxbasically it looked like 13 little -08:07
johnxon the front of the TV to the right of the screen08:07
RST38hs/details/details  s/writes/writers shit I hate this keyoard08:07
johnxyou could flip channels like you would slide your finger over a piano08:07
DocScrutinizerjohnx: clearly a great advantage for blind people at least (yes, even blind use TV)08:07
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RST38hjohnx: Funny, late Soviet color TVs had the same touch selector08:07
johnxcool. this one was probably American made though08:08
RST38heither copied or somehow oscillated to the same design08:08
johnxoh, I took a pic I think...08:08
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DocScrutinizerc-ts is absolutely optimized to be a replacement for a hw keyboard (like 9 button kbd)08:10
DocScrutinizerall the useful aspects of a r-ts are gone with c-ts08:10
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DocScrutinizeron N810 I had not to use the ts for a whole day of working with it. N900 you rather can dismiss the kbd than the ts :-(08:12
DocScrutinizerepic fail of GUI designers08:13
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DocScrutinizermoi  Stskeeps08:13
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johnxmornin' Stskeeps08:14
RST38hehlo Stskeeps08:14
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pupnikGeneralAntilles is right again.08:17
DocScrutinizerI mean, even windoze eventually learnt you might want a kbd shortcut for just everything. Maemo5 ingores that08:17
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ShadowJKI think windows removed the underlining of letters in menus thing08:22
RST38hDoc: Well, file a few bugzilla trackers and show them to konttori08:22
RST38hIt is not like Maemo5 entirely lacks shortcuts but their use is inconsistent08:22
RST38hSome will be fixed in PR1.2, if I understand correctly08:22
DocScrutinizersee ctrl-bs, but then missing arrow keys and space/enter to select a task08:23
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DocScrutinizeralso a consistent way to invoke menus08:23
DocScrutinizerN810 had menu button08:23
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ml-mobileShadowJK:  it hides them until you hit the alt key by default08:24
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DocScrutinizerQT (3?) has an automatism for that (alt shortcuts). I really hope they won't kick that for maemo508:26
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DocScrutinizeranyway even that won't help for the missing menu key/shortcut08:28
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DocScrutinizernor for the taskswitcher08:29
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DocScrutinizererr s/maemo5/maemo6/08:31
Triztwill there be a 6?08:31
johnxTrizt, yes08:31
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DocScrutinizerwell I heard a lot of the maemo taskforce is working on maemo6 already. Whether it's calle maemo or meego in the end, who knows08:32
* Trizt nods08:32
DocScrutinizerwho cares!08:32
Triztas long as it begins on an 'm', it's the same ;)08:33
DocScrutinizerm*o :-P08:33
DocScrutinizermoblin genes were recessive there XP08:34
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johnxtake one 'o' from maemo and one from moblin and call it 'moo'08:35
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DocScrutinizerevolution at it's best08:35
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Stskeepsdid you people catch yet?08:46
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yes, it tells us absolutely nothing new.08:51
* GeneralAntilles notes he misspelled Niels.08:51
ShadowJKIt's a nice summary confirmation of the pieces of puzzle08:51
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: that first port is for N900 is pretty new08:52
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, meh.08:53
GeneralAntillesNot anything particularly mind boggling.08:53
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: you're hard to please :P08:53
GeneralAntillesNor does to do anything for the Harmattan/N900 issue.08:53
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yeah, well.08:53
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DocScrutinizerwell, at least it's been about time some statement was published. Not read to the last line yet, and seems I'll be disappointed08:53
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: well, it is a bit hard to demand Harmattan answers in a MeeGo post ;)08:55
ShadowJKStskeeps, damn you and your logic!08:56
StskeepsShadowJK: it only exists until i have my coffee, then it's replaced with my chaos working method08:56
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ShadowJKThe community has invested all their remaining money in pitchforks! And it's not season for making hay08:57
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* tekojo coffee...09:00
Stskeepsindeed, i hear my kettle whistling09:00
tybolltpot meet kettle09:01
tekojoGeneralAntilles I do feel like I should comment on the Niels spelling, but it would sound like nit picking in the blog09:01
GeneralAntillestekojo, email.09:01
tekojoGeneralAntilles old faithful solution to all problems09:05
* DocScrutinizer wonders what "public R&D" might look like in the end of the day. Been a big topic on some former project09:06
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: both highlevel meego architects and idealistic Mer type guys going out for icecream in the red light district of amsterdam09:06
Stskeepstogether ;)09:06
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: hehe. Hope to be one of that number09:07
Stskeepsrandom fact, there is actually a decent icecream store there :P09:07
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* DocScrutinizer icecoffee. Interesting proposal for my next cup ;-P09:11
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johnxwait, going out for "ice cream"? I know what a "coffee shop" is in amsterdam, but I don't know what ice cream is a euphemism for...09:19
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* ShadowJK waits for the first "....should forget about N900 and Omap3, Omap4 and snapdragon is where it's at!"-posts/whining09:28
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johnxAFAIK, the next maemo device will be an omap3 as well09:30
SpeedEvilClearly we need to wait for x86-64 mobile09:30
johnxintel is getting right on that...09:30
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: you cost me a week of my life09:31
johnxit will be compatible with most backpack generators and car batteries with a capacity of 600Ah or better09:31
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I demand damage and interest09:31
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ShadowJKThere's cool video on youtube where a guy uses a 2400mAh Li-Ion A123 battery to start his car :)09:32
crashanddieDefinitions of "cool" vary widely, apparently09:33
ShadowJKit was -21C09:33
tybolltShadowJK: I want this video09:33
tybolltfuck sake my car won't start cause of cold sometimes :S09:34
SpeedEvilShadowJK: they are fun bats.09:34
ShadowJKI'll try find it again09:34
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I have a design for a little flying thing which extracts ~600W from 3 cells.09:34
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil, I'm tempted to try order the "developer kit" and see if it shows up in finland09:34
SpeedEvilShadowJK: until recently half price cells were on ebay09:34
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: someone seemed to have gotten a big batch surplus09:35
Sachinwho wants to take a guess at when the next firmware is going to be released?09:35
ShadowJKyeah... "surplus".. I think I could probably spot the counterfeit eneloops, but I know nothing of the A123 that'd help me on ebay09:36
Sachinnext friday?09:36
johnxSachin, end of april (just a guess)09:36
SpeedEvilShadowJK: reportedly (by purchasers) the real thing09:36
Sachinwhy so late?09:37
ShadowJK for the batteryfreaks09:37
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Sachinif that is the case why release 1.1 so early?09:37
tybolltI remember someone saying (around here) that the 1.2 thingy was expected "next week" when 1.1.1 arrived :)09:37
johnxSachin, because you asked me to guess. So I did. I have no more info than you do09:38
johnxI can guess again if you want09:38
Sachinbetter not be so late..09:38
johnxor what?09:39
crashanddie~weather YBBN09:40
Sachinill make my own firmware and release it :)09:40
DocScrutinizer/invite infobot09:41
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johnxalright. back to work. 'later maemoers :)09:42
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil, how did purchaser determine it's the real thing? :-)09:45
ShadowJKI think you'd have to push it beyond what the standard lifepo4 can do09:45
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: fast charges09:46
SpeedEvilShadowJK: standard lifepo4 can't do them really09:46
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DocScrutinizerwhat means fast here?09:54
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anotnacis t.m.o down09:56
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mecelooks like it.09:56
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: >20C charge09:57
DocScrutinizerahh, k09:57
meceI want 20C charge!!09:57
meceI can has?09:57
* tybollt hands mece a cheezeburgr09:58
meceom nom nom09:58
mece1C is getting rather old...09:58
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ShadowJK"float charge" allowed...09:59
ShadowJKbut how damaging is it, I wonder09:59
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anotnact.m.o is alive again its been going off and online all morning for me since it done the daily back up10:00
DocScrutinizermhm, noticed a few 120sec downtimes last few hours as well10:01
DocScrutinizerwiki that is10:01
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anotnaci never checked wiki only looked at downloads and that seems unaffected10:02
meceI'm having some trouble getting gcc to work in easy debian.10:03
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meceDoes anyone have some experience with this?10:03
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DocScrutinizerinfobot: hi! welcome back again10:07
DocScrutinizerinfobot: say hi!10:07
DocScrutinizer~poke cehteh10:08
* infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind cehteh, pokes cehteh repeatedly, hilarity ensues.10:08
cehteh~puke DocScrutinizer10:09
* infobot , while sick, attempts to make it to the porcelain god and pukes all over harleypig10:09
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cehtehhm .. :P10:10
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tybollt~kill tybollt10:13
* infobot shoots a inverse fluxquark gun at tybollt10:13
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cehtehno suicide protection?10:13
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ptl~kill infobot10:20
* infobot shoots a ionized fluxelectron gun at infobot10:20
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* n00bmonk3y waves up10:22
* n00bmonk3y wakes up *10:22
n00bmonk3ywoah way to early10:22
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marmoute~slap n00bmonk3y10:23
* infobot slaps n00bmonk3y, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!10:23
tybollt~wake n00bmonk3y10:23
* infobot throws a barrel-full of ice water on n00bmonk3y and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!"10:23
* n00bmonk3y blinks10:23
mecehmm-. aptitude upgrade over 3g 384kbps might have been a bad idea...10:24
n00bmonk3y2 slaps, a bucket of water and a ~wake? lol!10:24
n00bmonk3ylol mece10:24
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meceare there any open source office readers for maemo?10:26
mordhmm. what's the latest pr build?10:26
n00bmonk3y1.1.1, depends where you are10:26
n00bmonk3ydoesnt docs on the go that comes on the device count? or do you watn the code? lol10:26
mecen00bmonkey3y, it's not free I understand.10:27
n00bmonk3yyup mord10:27
n00bmonk3yoh well10:27
mordright. ty.10:27
n00bmonk3ystill depends where you are10:28
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n00bmonk3ynot released in the UK yet10:28
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meceis extras down?10:35
meceoh nvrmind10:35
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The_Tall1Hi has anybody compiled rdflib to diablo?10:43
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n00bmonk3ythe quietness may mean no :P10:50
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The_Tall1or everbody shiffers, cause its scary :(10:51
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The_Tall1the python-egg installation is no problem with gcc-4.3 on i386 but using a cross-compiler ended in "processor doesn't support <assembler code>" or basic stdout.h was missing10:54
The_Tall1Not my kind of fun in scratchbox10:55
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meceThe_Tall1, did you clean it between builds?10:56
The_Tall1no but used different dir for the object files10:57
mecefun times.10:57
The_Tall1mece: Between which builds?10:58
meceThe_Tall1, well i had a similar problem when i compiled something in i386, then the same thing in armel10:59
mece"make clean" helped.10:59
meceand configure10:59
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The_Tall1mece: thanks for this hint.11:00
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jacekowskigood morning11:05
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JaffaMorning, all11:27
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The_Tall1mece: thanks again got rdflib installed in scratchbox. Now have to build a debian package. Might become interesting11:46
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JaffaMorning, all11:51
JaffaAh, I did that.11:51
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The_Tall1Jaffa: Do you have a debian package for armel devices?11:52
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meceThe_Tall1, cool!11:57
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JaffaThe_Tall1: Of?12:05
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The_Tall1no shower12:17
tybolltcan you atleast use deodorant? You kind of smell :(12:18
lcukJaffa, going senile i see!   good mornin to you12:19
lcuki hope there is going to be a weekly news item about the lardman fix12:20
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The_Tall1Jaffa: No just got back12:21
homeasvs_in, how can I contact an author of a wiki page ?12:21
homeasvs_clicking on his name, or the talk link next to it, just takes me to pages that don't exist12:21
SpeedEvilcreate the page12:21
SpeedEvilthey may notice12:21
SpeedEvilor find the linked page and send them a message12:22
SpeedEvilor if they're on IRC, ping them12:22
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infobotwell, ~ is the key12:29
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tybollt~slap self12:30
JaffaThe_Tall1: You were asking about Debian armel packages12:30
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* infobot slaps self, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!12:30
The_Tall1Jaffa: Yes12:31
The_Tall1Jaffa:Building a package out of the rdflib python-egg12:32
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The_Tall1Jaffa: Is dh_make and fixing rules, control and makefile the only way?12:34
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V13Hello. Is "Attila Csipa" here ?12:48
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V13do you know if pyqt4 is in extras ?12:54
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lcukV13, you can check13:05
V13i did and i found: not13:06
lcukthen there is your answer13:06
V13but then again, atilla77 which is the maintainer of pyqt4 asked me if i'm going to promote wifieye to extras which depends on pyqt413:07
lcukim not sure what the qt and extras arrangement will be post 1.2, hopefully it will be simpler - X-Fade do you have any idea13:07
X-FadeV13: That does no matter, it gets promoted as a dependency.13:07
V13X-Fade: even if we're talking about pyqt4 ?13:07
V13i understand this for all other libraries, but pyqt4 too ? :-)13:08
X-FadeV13: Well, there is the PR1.2 thingie ;)13:08
V13hmm.. perhaps i should check qt4 instead of pyqt413:08
V13X-Fade: Exactly :-)13:08
V13oh... problem solved.13:08
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V13qt4 4.5.3 comes from nokia, so there is no reason not to promote pyqt4 when needed.13:09
X-Fadeqt5 4.5.3 is on < PR1.2 devices by default.13:09
X-Fadeqt4 ;)13:10
X-Fadeqt4 4.6 on >= PR1.213:10
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V13ok then... I bring you pyqt4 in extras then :)13:11
pupnikanybody know ehrer microb caches the .flvs?  i would like to copy them out of /tmp or wherever13:11
X-FadeV13: It will also mean that it won't work once PR1.2 is released.13:12
X-FadeOn PR1.2 devices.13:12
V13x-fade i'd rephrase that as: ... it might not work once PR1.2 is released13:12
X-FadeV13: Will.13:12
V13I'm not doing anything 4.5 specific.13:13
V13nor maemo specific.13:13
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X-FadeV13: As then you need an updated python2.5-qt4-core too.13:13
X-FadeWell, it depends if it that will work. As it has >= 4.5.3 depends.13:14
V13Perhaps the'll reconsider having qt 4.5 available in /opt13:14
V13this qt-thing versioning is very lame.13:14
X-FadeDual install will be quite a pain.13:14
V13not very but lame13:14
X-FadeLet's hope that Qt4.6 stays for a while :)13:15
V13they should properly handle library versions instead of using the "product" version for them.13:15
V13I mean, someone should force trolls to read the info page of libtool.13:15
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* ptl is not from trolltech triggers 'info libtool' right now13:16
lcukV13, are you offering?13:16
* V13 gets its gun13:16
* V13 computerized13:16
lcuklay down your arms13:16
lcukstart a tshirt campaign or something13:17
w00tX-Fade: it won't be such a problem in the future13:17
w00tX-Fade: API/ABI compatibility13:17
X-Fadew00t: Yeah.13:17
V13w00t yeah right..13:18
V13as far as i remember qt>4.0, it always was... no ?13:19
pupniksystemui   977 user  mem    REG      254,1  29763056   130236 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive13:19
V134.5 => 4.6 should be 4.5 => 5.013:19
V13pupnik yes.13:19
w00tV13: I don't understand what you're saying13:19
V13w00t: qt4 always had api and abi breakage between releases13:20
w00tV13: no, it doesn't13:20
w00tV13: they introduce new API, they don't break old API, and nor do they break ABI13:20
V13ok.. i'm not 100% sure but i remember kde always working on a specific qt version13:20
w00tV13: Qt on Maemo was different prior to 4.613:20
V13w00t: AFAIK, it's not the maemo additions that make qt 4.6 incompatible with 4.5. KDE 4.2 will not work with qt4.6 for example.13:21
ptlNexus 900, how's that for the name of a phone?13:21
w00tV13: it is the Maemo additions, because e.g. kinetic scrolling (on Maemo) changed totally from 4.5 that is there now to 4.6, along with other changes13:21
V13w00t: of course I might be wrong, but that's what I remember.13:21
V13w00t: then python2.5-qt4-core will work both with qt4.5 and qt4.6 ?13:22
pupnik7834245   3666 /home/user/MyDocs/tmp/FlashFYlp2n   woooot13:22
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w00tI don't definitively know the answer, probably, if it's built for 4.5 and doesn't use any new additions from 4.613:23
V13pupnik: are you looking for packages that take up space ?13:23
V13w00t: it currently works with 4.5, so it should be compatible with 4.6 ?13:23
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V13I really hope you're right.13:24
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pupnikV13: no just a way to archive video from browser13:26
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mecewhy-the-frak wont this configure file recognize sdl_mixer having ogg support?13:28
X-FadeV13: Actually wifieye runs on pr1.2 with qt4.6 only.13:28
V13i didn't get that. you mean it requires 4.6 ?13:28
V13or that is runs if qt is upgraded ?13:29
X-FadeNo, it runs on PR1.2 where only qt4.6 is available.13:29
V13you've pr1.2 in your hands ? :)13:29
X-FadeCan't comment on that, but I'm telling you it works ;)13:30
V13thanks :)13:30
* lcuk giggles13:30
* V13 presses the "Thanks" button13:30
X-FadeOh, sweet. More karma ;)13:30
V13x-fade i suppose you're using python2.5-qt4-* from extras testing. right ?13:31
X-FadeV13: Installed wifieye from testing, yes.13:31
V13i mean, not another version, compiled for a different maemo (let's say pr1.2)13:32
X-FadeV13: No, python is a community supported runtime. So it is not included in the device by default.13:32
V13yes. i'm aware of that. but you could have re-compiled it yourself. suppose not13:33
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X-Fadepython2.5-qt4-core 4.7-maemo713:33
V13yeap... that one :)13:33
X-FadeV13: I just clicked from AM, I really don't have time to recompile things ;)13:33
tybolltX-Fade could tell you but then he'd have to kill you...13:35
V13Any idea how the screenshots for are generated?13:37
V13I mean... who does it? I don't see a way to add a screenshot for wifieye13:37
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X-FadeV13: You can do it yourself.13:38
V13hm... how exactly ?13:38
X-FadeV13: The entry will be created automatically once the app is in Extras.13:38
V13oh.. good13:39
X-FadeV13: And then you can just go to the page and click 'edit' on the floating bar.13:39
V13I suppose you don't mean this one:
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pupnikit is very nice to watch webvideo with mplayer, letting browser cache it on pause :)13:55
satmdis it possible to have an smtp-only mail account in modest which stores sent mail on imap?13:56
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V13satmd: I didn't understand what you said. How is it going to be 'smtp only' if it has access to imap ?13:59
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V13you mean, not to fetch mails ?13:59
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satmdV13: yes14:11
satmdI have one central imap account with getmail integration14:12
satmdbut for sending mail, I use individual smtp accounts on my desktop14:12
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V13Perhaps you mean identities ?14:13
andre__hmm. my karma dropped to nearly half of it.14:13
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timeless_mbpandre__: i lost a large portion of my karma too :(14:13
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tybolltMy name is Tim! (ref My name is Earl!)14:14
satmdwell, if I can use these identities with individual smtp server, fine14:15
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V13Since it is not possible to subscribe to folders or exclude from check mail, i guess it is not 100% possible14:16
V13you can have multiple accounts for different identities and use whichever you like14:16
V13you can also make those accounts look at the same server/username but they will slow mail fetching.14:17
V13since they will all retrieve mail.14:17
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satmdhm, so ONE workaround means to have a dummy pop3 locally14:17
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V13If you disable mail fetching for all of them then it will ok, but at some cases (sending failed) you may need to do a "send&receive" which will most probably cause mails to be fetched14:17
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V13well.. yes.. but storing sent mails on imap... i don't know if it can do that14:18
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Arif_morning o:14:19
satmdI could bcc myself14:19
satmdbut that's rather uglxy14:19
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lardmanafternoon all14:23
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corecodesatmd: i have the same problem14:35
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corecodesatmd: there are two solutions: either modify modest/tinymail, or change the smtpd to put sent mails into imap :)14:36
Arif_nearly 200 apps in Moomo 5 extras14:38
YoannLHi, is there any way to trigger custom vibration on Maemo 5? (except the MCE d-bus interface)14:38
TermanaArif_: I didn't realize Nokia put cows on the n900. I thought they put Maemo the OS. Not Moomo the cows. :P14:40
StskeepsMoomin 514:41
X-FadeStskeeps: Shut up troll ;)14:41
rangeMooBox in Moomin Extras! Arf, arf!14:41
DocScrutinizerYoannL: /sys14:41
Arif_I woke up too early14:41
Arif_I could've slept for 20 more minutes!14:41
TermanaWhoever said #maemo had NORMAL users?14:42
Arif_Map Loader for Moomo devices is announced...14:42
tybolltArif_: Fuck yeah, do I ever hate that. This morning I woke up like an hour too early and couldn't go back to sleep, grrr14:43
Stskeepsyou know14:43
StskeepsMoomin would be a lot cooler name for MeeGo.14:43
YoannLDocScrutinizer: what about /sys ?14:44
TermanaStskeeps - I think they are trying to market MeeGo to average users and businesses. Not baboons like us.14:44
* SpeedEvil eats a bananna.14:44
DocScrutinizerYoannL: there's a vibrator node somewhere, you can 'echo 100 >vib/brightness'14:44
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* Arif_ thought of some improvements for the media player14:45
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* SpeedEvil moves Arif_ to brainstorm.14:45
Arif_not that big :P14:45
Arif_just a "delete" and "send" option in the little playlist when you press the album art14:46
Arif_and when you press back ont he upper right14:46
Arif_the current playing song is selected14:46
Arif_instead of just going to the top14:46
* Arif_ misses that from S6014:46
Arif_would andre__ hit me with a brick if I added those as enhancement bugs? :P14:48
andre__either that, or brainstorm if it's non-trivial14:48
Arif_if brainstorm is used for these kinds of small things14:49
Arif_I'd open one14:49
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zaheermcreate a brainstorm: improve media player14:51
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zaheermthen add solutions for each of your enhancements14:51
* Arif_ goes looking for an existing brainstorm14:52
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silverbullethi all14:52
achipaX-Fade poke (I broke Extras again (C) )14:54
lardmanot question, nVidia GTX 275 or wait a while for a GTX 260?14:54
X-Fadeachipa: Tell me more :)14:54
lardmansilverbullet: I need a graphics card to try some CUDA stuff14:54
silverbulletwhat do u mean *wait for a while*14:55
silverbulletwhy wait14:55
silverbulletjust grab one14:55
lardmanthe 260 is apparently delayed from the supplier14:55
achipaX-Fade: somebody promoted an app (wifieye) depending on my lib (you-know-which), but the lib did not get promoted from testing -> broken apps in Extras14:56
silverbullet275 has many more cores than 260 so get one if the additional dollars dont bother u much14:56
lardmanhmm, nice to see the nVidia page doesn't even realise their new gtx260s have 216 cores14:56
X-Fadeachipa: Hmm let me check why it didn't get promoted then.14:56
achipaprolly a side-effect of the qt blockade14:56
silverbulletgo for 27514:56
X-Fadeachipa: no, should not.14:56
X-Fadeachipa: I made sure wifieye worked on PR1.214:57
lardmansilverbullet: 260 is supposed to be a downgraded 280 (due to dodgy cores, etc.), was wondering if the 280/260 arch is better than the 27514:57
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silverbulleti am pretty sure thats not the case that 260 is going to be better than 27514:58
lardmanyeah I wouldn't think so, but was just wondering14:58
achipaX-Fade: yep, but the python2.5-qt4-* deps did not get promoted14:58
X-Fadeachipa: Interface shows them?14:58
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achipaX-Fade: ah, I think I see the problem - when I click on the dep, I get the package that was erased from Extras14:59
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achipamaybe the dep checker 'accepted' that as a valid package so did not pull in the newer ones currently in testing15:00
X-Fadeachipa: hmm yeah, need to check if it looks at the 'deleted' status.15:01
X-Fadeachipa: But let me push the packages into extras manually.15:02
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achipaX-Fade: ok... just be careful as it's a multi-package... umm... package (so we don't shoot ourselves in the foot when the remaining python2.5-qt4-* packages get promoted)15:03
X-Fadeachipa: the maemo7 versions work on PR1.2 at least.15:03
achipaX-Fade: yay ! :) It might be good to have it *fully* in PR1.1 Extras too, otherwise dep-funk could ensue15:05
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* Arif_ wobbles off to uni15:05
Shapeshifterwould someone like to activate my extras-devel uploading request ;) Or should I just wait?15:05
X-FadeShapeshifter: lol, 2 minutes response time ;)15:06
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V13achipa: that would be me :-)15:07
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ShapeshifterX-Fade: :D15:08
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achipaV13: hi there :) there is some fallout from my previous 'I borked Extras' episode, but nothing serious :)15:10
V13I also show that pyqt was not promoted but I thought it was just the interface that lagged.15:11
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pupnik  cute tiny tiny linux clamshell15:11
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Shapeshifterthis whole build system is well interesting...15:15
achipaV13: long story short - there was a version of pyqt in extras that got deleted, but the promotion mechanism might have not be aware (of the deleted status) so it did not promote the version from testing15:16
V13oh... let's shoot the promotion mechanism :-)15:16
V13i guess this is a custom made mechanism, because debian would go the opposite way: wifieye would be promoted when all its dependencies were promoted.15:17
V13btw,  isn't there any karma for developing apps ?15:18
zaheermV13, there is i think...but they need to be in extras to get karma15:19
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dreginIs it possible to force maemo's media player app to re-scan my memory card for music?15:19
V13zaheerm... well.. i don't get :)15:19
X-FadeV13: Takes up to 2 days.15:19
dreginfor some reason it can't see any since I installed the extra decoders15:19
V13x-fade: thanks15:19
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Shapeshiftermhh. So, why exactly did this fail? I made the tar.gz, dsc and .changes files using py2deb. Apart from the gpg issue I don't really see what's wrong.15:20
V13Shapeshifter: missing dependencies?15:21
ShapeshifterV13: the dependencies are: python2.5, pyside-qt4-base, pyside-qt4-core, pyside-qt4-maemo5, pyside-qt4-gui15:21
X-FadeShapeshifter: build-depends?15:21
ShapeshifterX-Fade: mhh, I followed the Py2deb wikipage. it doesn't say anything about build-depends. And my app doesn't need any, it's python15:23
jebbaodd the log doesnt show the missing build dep15:23
lizardoShapeshifter: you *NEED* build-depends even for python15:24
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lizardoShapeshifter: they should list dependencies needed for constructing the debian package15:24
lizardoShapeshifter: so you need to at least put "python" there15:24
X-Fadeachipa: core and gui promoted, now waiting for things to catch up.15:25
Shapeshifterlizardo: so, python2.5 is not enough, I also need python in build depends?15:25
lizardoShapeshifter: did you put "Build-Depends: python2.5" ?15:25
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Shapeshifterlizardo: no, I used py2deb and it doesn't say anything about that. But I'll find out how to add build-depends using py2deb15:26
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lizardoShapeshifter: now looking at your source... I don't think this is the case15:27
achipaX-Fade: (Y), but there is an indirect dep, too: -common15:27
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X-Fadeachipa: Got auto promoted.15:28
Shapeshifterlizardo: I used this thing: and there I listed the dependencies and stuff. build-depends doesn't appear in the wiki, but I guess there's some p.build_depends or so for it.15:28
lizardoShapeshifter: now I see... your source package looks buggy15:28
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lizardoShapeshifter: intead of unpacking to a "alarmed-0.1" directory, it unpacks the debian and src directories directly15:29
achipaX-Fade: great. What about the other packages ? I guess they won't be promotable either before PR1.2 ?15:30
lizardoShapeshifter: can you pastebin your py2deb configuration ?15:30
lizardoShapeshifter: *note* use something like http://pastebin.com15:30
X-Fadeachipa: Which ones?15:30
Tahitibob35hi, python-location is in extras-testing, but does not appear in the extras-testing list(
Tahitibob35So, no tester can see it and vote for it.....15:31
achipathe, umm, rest... -network, -gl, -sql, etc etc15:31
X-FadeTahitibob35: That is because it is not a user package.15:31
lizardoTahitibob35: you shouldn't vote for non user packages15:31
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X-FadeTahitibob35: non-user packages get promoted automatically with user apps.15:32
X-Fadefor now ;)15:32
X-Fadeachipa: It depends, if an app depends on -network ( >= 4.7-maemo7) they will.15:33
achipaX-Fade: I already have 2 user/* packages in testing that are just waiting for enough t-ups (the python2.5-qt4 which depends on all, and the -doc which is also a demo)15:33
achipaX-Fade: trouble is people often omit versions in the deps15:33
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X-Fadeachipa: Yeah, but this will be fixed with the maintainer interface anyway.15:34
X-Fadeachipa: As I committed to for this Sprint.15:34
achipaX-Fade: cool15:35
achipaok, so off I go to lobby for testers :)15:35
X-Fadeachipa: Still not sure if python2.5-qt4 should be a user app.15:35
X-Fadeachipa: It is ugly and good at the same time ;)15:36
achipaX-Fade: it's a borderline case, I admit, but I do think there are more pros than cons15:36
achipaX-Fade: BTW have you read my mail to the testingsquad list ? regarding how multi-package promotions can cause dependency hell ?15:37
Shapeshifterlizardo: this is the as I used it for the failed build. I now tried adding p.build_depends but ran into other problems. I'm looking for solutions atm.15:38
X-Fadeachipa: no, sorry i'm not on that list. Probably should though.15:38
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Shapeshifterlizardo: well, build was 1 for the initial release, not 2 as I made it now.15:39
achipaX-Fade: okay, in short: wifi eye got maemo7 versions of common, core and gui promoted to extras15:39
achipaX-Fade: now, I upload a maemo8 version, and FooApp get promoted, but it uses common, core and network15:40
X-Fadeachipa: Once the admin interface is there, the maintainer of the lib plans promotion.15:40
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achipaX-Fade: ok, If you say it solves this problem, I believe you :)15:41
X-Fadeachipa: So you can push your versions in at a certain time. And people using your libs need to wait for them to be available.15:41
mikkovachipa: send important mails to -developers :)15:41
achipamikkov: okay, okay :)15:41
X-Fadeachipa: Current setup is just so that most simple promotions work without having a lot of people working on it.15:41
X-Fadeachipa: Something needed to be in place quickly before fremantle release. Now we can improve on that.15:42
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mikkovjavispedro: could you upload sdlgles to extras-devel15:43
V13achipa: what you mentioned can be solved by making your packages depend on exact versions of each other. This way, if you put maemo8 in testing and an app that depends on that is promoted, then this one will cause other maemo8 packages to be promoted replacing maemo7. No?15:43
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achipaV13: not with the current scheme (that's the problem, it's not apt), but X-Fade says the new admin UI will solve this, so, fingers crossed :)15:45
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X-Fadeachipa: We now promote minimal dependencies, out of ease. It should be the other way around, but that only works if there are active maintainers for these dependencies.15:46
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X-Fadeachipa: And we don't have that for a large number of dependencies atm.15:47
achipayeah, (py)qt is a bit of an icebreaker in that regard as it's one of the few packages that has an extensive dependency net...15:48
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mikkovthe promoter use about the same logic as Application Manager for updates which is good15:48
mikkovthe logic is not good though :)15:49
X-FadeMost people upload a lib because they need it, but not want to maintain it.15:49
X-FadeThis is what makes it hard.15:49
lizardoShapeshifter: as I said, I don't think anymore it is related to build-depends15:50
lizardoShapeshifter: it is something  to do with the .tar.gz tarball generation15:50
Shapeshifterlizardo: mhh. what's missing?15:52
pupnik  pretty use of accelerometer in a Nintendo DSi game15:52
lcukX-Fade, a community solution to that problem, like the bugsquad - but a small group of people who watch the community ports might be an idea15:52
lizardoShapeshifter: I think the tarball is slightly broken (not sure if it is py2deb fault or something missing on your py2deb .py  file)15:53
lizardoShapeshifter: note that I never used py2deb15:53
X-Fadelcuk: Yeah, you need some community maintainers for packages.15:53
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Shapeshifterlizardo: mhh.15:53
X-FadeI hope to create the tools for that.15:53
lcukX-Fade, of course cool15:54
lizardoShapeshifter: hmmm, I think my guess was wrong ... just tried unpack your sources and they unpacked fine15:55
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lizardoShapeshifter: but trying to build it by hand  gave:15:55
lizardodpkg-checkbuilddeps: error: syntax error in control file debian/control at line 13: continued value line not in field15:55
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lizardoShapeshifter: looking at that error line, I see that your package description is broken15:56
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lizardoShapeshifter: it has a spuprious newline15:56
lizardoShapeshifter: try removing the \n's from lines 23,24,2515:56
lizardoShapeshifter: (Python adds those newlines automatically, so you don't need to add them)15:57
lizardoShapeshifter: either that, or put everything under a single line15:57
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lizardoShapeshifter: as used on the Py2Deb documentation15:57
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Shapeshifterremoving only the \ns didn't work. trying a single line now.16:01
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fzfq3mHi there guys..16:02
fzfq3mI want to Wipe my N900... and I found a Nokia support thread that explain how to do it... it suggest to reflash both: Firmware and 32Gb part...16:03
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fzfq3mI'm just confused on what firmware should I pick... the US version or the Global one??16:04
mgedminwell, where are you, fzfq3m?16:04
mgedminsince I don't live in the US, I picked the global version16:04
fzfq3mMy N900 keyboard is us US I guess16:04
mgedminkeyboard doesn't matter16:04
mgedminactually I'm not sure what exactly differs between those versions16:05
fzfq3mmgedmin: That´s what I'm thinking but I wanted to be sure16:05
fzfq3mA last question: Should I Flash firmware image firts and then flash the eMMC content image after, or what?16:06
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mgedminalso a good question16:07
X-Fadefzfq3m: doesn't matter if you don't boot in between flashes.16:07
mgedminthat's what I did16:07
mgedminI even booted between flashes16:07
mgedminbut it seemed to turn out all right anyway16:07
X-Fademgedmin: Yes, but if you flash emmc first, boot and then flash firmware. The emmc isn't entirely clean anymore.16:08
fzfq3mThanks guys... I will follow X-Fade suggestion16:08
X-FadeIt just depends on how factory default you want it ;)16:08
X-FadeAll asuming you are flashing the same versions you are already runnning.16:09
Shapeshifterlizardo: nope, still failing, even with everything on one line without any newlines.16:09
X-FadeShapeshifter: tried lintian against the source package?16:09
Shapeshifter <- build_alarmed.py16:09
ShapeshifterX-Fade: lintian?16:09
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lizardoShapeshifter: it might be failing with something else now16:11
lizardoShapeshifter: but the original error was certainly because of the newlines (as I paste the error for you)16:11
fzfq3mX-Fade: I will use RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin (Global version), and want to have my N900 completely clean... a mean factory settings16:11
Shapeshifterlizardo: okay16:11
X-Fadefzfq3m: That is fine, just make sure you flash the emmc too then.16:12
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lizardoX-Fade: looks like the sbmock is not saving all the errors ... if you look at Shapeshifter's build log, the one marked as FAILED is not what failed actually16:12
fzfq3msure: For that i will use RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin Am I right??16:12
lizardoX-Fade: it failing at the very beginning of "dpkg-buildpackage"16:13
X-Fadelizardo: I'm thinking missing make or configure or something like that?16:13
lizardoX-Fade: no... the first error was a debian/control syntax error, but sbdmock and/or autobuilder scripts didn't pick it up16:14
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lizardoX-Fade: instead there was only a "root.FAILED"  log wich actually does not contain any error message16:14
X-FadeShapeshifter: Last build still had newlines in your control file.16:15
lizardoX-Fade: so at some point I understand why Shapeshifter was not noticing the error just by looking at the autobuilder failed logs :)16:15
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X-Fadelizardo: Yeah, I'm not sure why dpkb-buildpackage doesn't show an error.16:15
lizardoX-Fade: running "dpkg-buildpackage" locally returned the error16:16
X-FadeShapeshifter: And your bugtracker field is broken too.16:16
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X-FadeShapeshifter: Are you sure you are using the latest py2deb? Khertan fixed that bug iirc.16:17
lizardoX-Fade: my guess:  sbdmock first tries to get the build depends assuming the debian/control file syntax is ok16:17
lizardoX-Fade: so it in fact ignores the stderr of that command16:17
X-Fadelizardo: My guess is that the control file only has 5 lines.16:18
lizardoX-Fade: so it is failing between the rootstrap setup and the build dependency installation, and sbdmock does not save logs for that...16:18
X-Fadelizardo: As it stops after the \n\n16:18
lizardoX-Fade: yes, I know that. I'm just pointing that the autobuilder logs are not recording that16:18
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X-Fadelizardo: I'd have to ask Ed.16:19
lizardoX-Fade: and given that it is all that uncommon to insert syntax errors on debian/control, it would be nice to try to get those errors16:19
lizardo"all that" -> "not all that"16:19
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mmgcswhere (a forum, channel, et cetera) is the best place to ask N900 "user" question (e.g. Is there a way to snap contacts on the desktop to a grid?)16:22
Corsacmmgcs: use tweakr16:22
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mgedminmmgcs, here, I think16:27
V13achipa: ping16:28
achipaV13: pong16:28
V13I've a pyqt related q in case you know...16:28
V13may be qt only though.16:28
V13I've a sample mainwindow and it shows a dialog... now everything is ok, unless I do this for the mainwindow: self.setStyleSheet(""" """). Then the dialog is messed up16:29
achipathough, if it's qt, more qt hats in #qt-maemo16:29
mgedminmmgcs, snapping to grid exists, but the grid is 4x4 pixels ...16:29
ShapeshifterX-Fade: mhh, it's the newest version apparently.16:30
achipayep, qt thing :) Pyqt just wraps, does not interfere with what qt does16:30
mgedminmmgcs, you can change the grid size by editing (as root) some file somewhere16:30
V13yeah... thanks anyway.16:30
achiparecommendation stands: ask in #qt-maemo16:31
mgedminmmgcs, it's described here:
povbotBug 5372: Can't easily align desktop widgets (snap to position) on home screens16:31
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V13achipa: I will16:31
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SpeedEvilyou can set the right frob in the config file and it works16:37
SpeedEvil40 pix is about right IMO16:37
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AndrewFBlackStskeeps: Its my time to bug you again16:46
* Stskeeps ponders idly when his wife comes home16:46
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StskeepsAndrewFBlack: going to look at it now, i don't have anything better to do16:47
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AndrewFBlackStskeeps: I'm sure their is always something better to do but I wont complain about you looking at it :)16:48
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StskeepsAndrewFBlack: right, so theme creation is your theme package together with tools (hildon-theme-tools) and layout package (hildon-theme-layout-5)17:02
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Stskeepsor sec..17:03
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Shapeshifterlizardo, X-Fade: thanks guys for the help. I guess I did some stupid thing because the file I uploaded didn't have the changes (removed newlines) that I did put in my source file... Anyway, it built OK now :)17:05
X-FadeShapeshifter: Heh, well at least it worked now :)17:05
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Stskeepsok, so you'll need to fork hildon-theme-layout-5, like hildon-theme-layout-5-afb, and alter the rc/base.rc file in there to point to a new gtk-icon-theme-name.. and then ask Meizirkki how he made a icon theme.. that icon theme has to inherit from 'hicolor'17:06
Stskeepsand then you point your theme to build-depend on hildon-theme-layout-5-afb instead and depend on your new icon theme17:07
Stskeepsthat's roughly how you do it17:07
X-FadeStskeeps: Sounds easy ;)17:08
AndrewFBlackStskeeps: ok17:09
Stskeepsi hoped i could include it in the theme template but it looks like the original template prevents me from doing so.17:10
Stskeepser, original layout17:10
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AndrewFBlackreading all that makes me want to do it like I did it back in the Diablo days and just build package my self after I cut theme apart to just include the icon files in the new package.  Keeps from me from making a new layout and template17:14
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AndrewFBlackbasiclly what I did in daiblo days was to build theme to have template cut apart and all files generated, then I unpacked .deb and added icon files and modified theme files.  Then used py2deb to build source package again then upload.17:16
Stskeepsyeah, i'm trying to figure out if there's a better way17:17
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ShapeshifterMhh. But for some reason my doesn't have o+x. the one I've put in the package. Do I have to care about file permissions upon packaging?17:18
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akerippershould you format your cdcard when it previously have been in a s60(n82)?17:20
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AndrewFBlackI still like my idea > that gives you a program that lets you customize your theme one peice at a time.17:21
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StskeepsAndrewFBlack: if you can, try out to make /usr/share/icons/themename/ and mimic the structure in /usr/share/icons/hicolor17:24
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AndrewFBlackStskeeps: ok17:26
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StskeepsAndrewFBlack: it might actually pick up those icons first17:26
Stskeepsif it does, we can do tricks directly in the template17:27
AndrewFBlackI don't know about in maemo5 but on diablo it would pick on the in theme named folder first and any missing ones it would revert to /hicolor17:27
Stskeepsyeah, let's see if this still exists17:28
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AndrewFBlackgoing to have to wait til I get home don't have network access on my n900 at work to ssh into it.17:29
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AndrewFBlackstupid company network requires me to enroll my root cert to get on work network so only windows17:30
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ptlAndrewFBlack: what's your scheme? EAP-TLS?17:39
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AndrewFBlackptl: ?17:41
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ptlAndrewFBlack: for the network in your job, that forces you to enroll17:43
AndrewFBlackptl: not sure what you mean by scheme?17:43
mmgcsis there an option in MfE to go back to the Inbox (or source folder) after deleting an email (from the email reading screen) - as opposed to it moving to the next email?17:45
ptlauthentication schema17:45
ptlLEAP, EAP-TLS, PEAP and so on17:45
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timeless_mbpmmgcs: MfE isn't a mail app17:46
timeless_mbpit's a sync transport17:46
timeless_mbpthe mail app is modest, it's 100% open source17:46
timeless_mbpand if you have issues w/ it, you can write patches17:46
timeless_mbpwhich reminds me, i need to bug the devs17:46
mmgcsok, sorry, the mail app17:46
AndrewFBlackptl: I'm not sure any idea how I find out?17:46
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timeless_mbpmmgcs: so, is the source for the version we shipped in fremantle sales iirc17:48
AndrewFBlackptl: looks like EAP17:48
mmgcstimeless_mbp: thanks17:48
timeless_mbpi have a cross reference of trunk somewhere too, because i wrote  patch for it sometime this year, but i don't remember which xref hosts it17:48
ptlAndrewFBlack: it seems to be EAP-TLS, by the need to 'enroll' your certificate. But N900 has support for EAP-TLS, so it should work17:48
ptlsource for modest? isn't it closed-source?17:49
SpeedEvil(03:46:17 PM) timeless_mbp: the mail app is modest, it's 100% open source17:49
ptlgood, I didn't know that, I thought it followed the ways of the media player17:50
ShapeshifterSo, I still don't understand this. My app,, has 755 permissions on my machine. When I make the package using py2deb and then upload it to autobuilder, it makes the package allright, it goes to extras-devel, but after installation, the user can't launch it because it has 644 permissions...17:50
timeless_mbpthe mail team managed to get it right for their rewrite17:50
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timeless_mbpthe browser team tried and failed17:50
ShapeshifterDo I have to do something special to give the .py app proper permissions?17:50
timeless_mbpthe media player team only tried to get the framework opened for fremantle, and i think they succeeded17:50
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AndrewFBlackptl: I think other problem I'm running into when I try to connect it is asking for WEP but I am told to tell device The Key is automatically provided but I don't think n900 has that option17:51
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ptlAndrewFBlack: that's because in windows mobile you do it this way... A very stupid way, I think. I still have an old Windows Mobile phone, it took me months to realize that you should tell it that the EAP-TLS is a 'WEP with automatically provided key' and configure the certificate elsewhere.17:52
ptlAndrewFBlack: that was one of the less user-friendly interface issues I have ever found17:52
timeless_mbpAndrewFBlack: that probably means you need to install the key manually first :)17:53
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ptlno, there's no key at all17:54
ptlonly the certificate17:54
infobottimeless_mbp meant: AndrewFBlack: that probably means you need to install the cert manually first :)17:54
ptland its password17:54
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Shapeshifterchmod +x /home/user/MyDocs/alarmed/src/opt/alarmed/; ls -lah /home/user/MyDocs/alarmed/src/opt/alarmed/ -> permissions are 644. Can stuff on the MyDocs partition not be +x?17:57
AndrewFBlackI installed Cert, setup connection with the SSID for the network, set it up as WPA with EAP and set EAP type as TLS still asks for WEP when I try to connect17:58
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V13Shapeshifter: No. It is a vfat partition that doesn't support permissions.17:58
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AndrewFBlackit does ask for a certificate during setup but none show their17:59
ShapeshifterV13: okay. the py2dev tutorial is broken then ;) might fix it once I get this build working. it says I could put stuff in a MyDocs subdir and set permissions17:59
V13Perhaps it was referring to the SDK ?17:59
V13AndrewFBlack: what's the problem ?18:00
ptlis it possible to set a file as a block device under MyDocs and format it as ext2/ext3 and mount as a loop device to get more executable stuff into the device?18:00
ShapeshifterV13: actually it's quite specifically writte with people in mind who want to build the package on the n90018:00
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AndrewFBlackV13: trying to connect n900 to network that requires a root cert to be enrolled first18:01
V13enrolled ?18:01
V13ptl: I believe that's what easydebian does.18:02
AndrewFBlackptl: btw it is EPA/TLS just read that on guide for windows mobile18:02
ptlV13: yeah, but without booting into a new OS, just for a few extra executables :)18:02
V13AndrewFBlack: I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're trying to do and what is your problem.18:02
V13ptl: I meant: If easydebian does it, then why not you ?18:03
ptlAndrewFBlack: my job also supposedly supports EAP/TLS but I never got it to work, from the laptop, mobile or amything18:03
ptland I did get the .p12 certificate and such18:03
AndrewFBlackI think one thing is only option on n900 I see for EAP is WPA-with EAP but I need WEP with EAP18:04
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V13I've EAP/TLS working so it can be done... BUT: It seems to have a bug with certificates that don't have a password. I couldn't make that work.18:04
V13WEP with EAP?18:05
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V13I believe there is no such thing.18:06
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AndrewFBlackIts the options they tell you use to use on Windows Mobile, trying to use my companys windows guide to connect n900 lol18:06
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Stskeepsjust ordered kfc18:08
Arif_and why must busses be so full between 16-18!18:08
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Stskeepsrush hour :P18:08
ptlAndrewFBlack: never mind about this "WEP" stuff, it's just windows mobile lame way of making that work18:08
Arif_I sat next to someone with loud music18:09
Arif_so I put mine louder than his :D18:09
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ptlMeego will be compatible with the Nokia N90018:11
Arif_I so hoped it wouldn't be ;(18:11
ptlit seems official18:11
Arif_it gave me an excuse to waste money on a new device :D18:11
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ptlthat's great news, I don't feel abandoned anymore.18:14
arnorMaemo + Moblin = Meego, no? ;]18:14
Arif_pretty much18:14
arnorMoblin, is it Debian-based?18:14
AndrewFBlackwonder my certificat is not showing up for me to select when setting up connection18:14
Shapeshifterof course it will.18:15
Shapeshifterarnor: no it is not.18:15
ptlAndrewFBlack: was it a .p12 certificate?18:15
ptlAndrewFBlack: mine has shown up18:15
ptlAndrewFBlack: but the connection didn't work.18:15
ptlI don't have the slightest idea why.18:15
ptlEverything seemed ok.18:16
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ptlAnyone knows where can I see the logs for that? /var/log/messages?18:16
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AndrewFBlackptl: name of file is SoCo_Root_Certificate.cer18:17
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ptlI think you need a user certificate, a client certificate and a private key18:18
ptlthe .p12 file has all three in it18:18
ptl.cer is just one certificate, in PEM format if I recall it correctly18:18
ptlabout this meego stuff18:19
ptlis there someone here to whom I could say 'THANKS'?18:19
ptl:P I am very happy about this.18:19
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AndrewFBlackptl: I think that is purpose of the enroll.exe file for windows mobile I think it gets the other certificates for you from network18:21
ptlAndrewFBlack: oh, I see18:21
AndrewFBlackI guess I'm stuck getting a Windows Mobile PDA for use at work18:22
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ptlAndrewFBlack: if you get the three files (maybe from your windows mobile) and get someone who understands openssl and certificates to do it for you, you can generate a .p12 file to use in the N900.18:24
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AndrewFBlackptl: ok now just to find a windows mobile device that is overly expensive or a phone lol18:25
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AndrewFBlackI wonder if I could get a SmartQ V7 to connect at work on Windows Ce18:32
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ptlif I reformat the N900 to use a larger applications partition and a ext2 MyDocs partition, will it work?18:49
Arif_the camera wont18:49
cehtehdepends, not out of the box18:49
cehtehcamera problem can be fixed18:50
Arif_and wind00z wont read it :P18:50
cehteh(just permission problem)18:50
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* cehteh reformated everything to ext3 meanwhile18:50
* Arif_ just leaves it as is :D18:50
cehtehtried ext4 .. which is almost double as fast! .. but needs custom kernel which may make problems18:51
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cehtehyou need to hack some scripts and configs to make reformatting work18:51
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ptlwhat's a goodies developer, kalikiana?18:57
ptlcehteh: hack scripts and configs? wouldn't it break on each update?18:57
* Shapeshifter definetly needs to improve his uploading/testing cycle to extras-devel -.-18:59
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apolis it possible to install maps over-the-air using the map application?19:00
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Shapeshifterputting the sources into a tar.gz, uploading them, downloading them on the n900, unpacking, running py2deb, uploading the results, downloading them on the laptop, uploading them to autobuilder from there, and installing it from the repo on the n900 after that is *somewhat* suboptimal >.>19:00
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oilinkihas this Microsoft error reporting system been implemented with Maemo platform yet?
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cehtehptl: not on each, but yes can happen19:11
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kalikianaptl, goodies in Xfce are basically additions you may like but which are not needed for a base install19:17
kalikianaand you can guess what a goodie developer does :-)19:18
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ptlkalikiana: ok :)19:28
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aepi wonder if there is an adapter to plug in a 5.5" cable into the microphone input for guitar tuning :D19:34
aepi bet it would fry the soundchip19:34
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SpeedEvilFor tuning - any mic will do19:36
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lucentaep: impedences are different19:38
lucentotherwise it should work19:38
lucentyou want a "direct box" converter common in guitar live stage setups19:38
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aepSpeedEvil: not really. either the tuning app sucks or putting the phone in the same room as the amp is not how it works19:38
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aepbesides you can't play on an amp on stage while tuning19:39
n00bmonk3yhmmmm any pulseaudio experts here? :D19:40
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aeplucent: you sure i can plug it into a DI output? oO i though that would be 50 Ohm and with quite some power.19:41
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aepi rather dont try. heh19:42
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KhertanRahhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!l! This QA Testing process will made me crazy !19:45
Arif_I let my N900 fall from 20 stairs today...19:45
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KhertanSomething will be made quickly to improve that !19:45
Khertanthis is borring ...19:45
Khertanharassing !19:45
Arif_what's wrong with it :P19:45
Khertanand is stupid !19:45
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Khertanrules changes everytimes19:46
Khertanno one test19:46
Khertanno vote19:46
Khertanthis sucks ! really !19:46
cehtehArif_: better 20 stairs than 20 stories :)19:46
Arif_it seems that nothings wrong with it:D19:46
Khertani i m furious ....19:46
Khertani tired of fightinh19:47
Khertanand will stop to try to make things available in extras !19:47
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Khertanmaking is own repository is far easier and quicker19:47
* Arif_ votes for it :P19:47
Khertanand putting a link in maemo with an install file is easy19:47
StskeepsKhertan: qa is there for a reason19:48
Stskeepsto not let buggy sw get into extras19:48
Khertancurrently i pass more time trying to publish things than fixing bug19:48
Khertanstskeeps: false !19:48
StskeepsKhertan: no, not false19:49
cehtehwhere is the QA process documented?19:49
ptlArif_: 20 stairs? You mean 20 steps, isn't it? Do you have any kind of protective case?19:49
* cehteh just doesnt care .. i write what i use myself :P19:49
Arif_yes, and no19:49
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zaheermi find it much easier to submit my package to autobuilder19:49
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zaheermthan to create own repo19:50
Arif_Khertan have you considered Ovi!19:50
Venomrushhey guys19:50
Venomrushquick qeustion19:50
ali1234setting up a repo is trivial compared to fighting the autobuilder19:50
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ali1234and extras process19:50
Venomrushif there are contacts in SIM19:50
Venomrushdoes the n900 show them by default?19:50
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Venomrushor have an option to only show these SIM contacts?19:51
cehtehyou can import them to the addressbook .. iirc it doesnt show then, but i am not sure19:51
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Venomrushi know you can import them19:51
Khertan_[18:50] <Khertan> currently i pass more time trying to publish things than fixing bugn[18:50] <Khertan> stskeeps: false !n[18:50] <Khertan> it s just here to force dev to create their own repositoryn[18:51] <Khertan> and as i said it doesn t help as the time i pass to pusblish things isn t time use to implement new feature and fix bugs19:51
cehtehwell i did that once and never cared again :P19:52
n00bmonk3ylol khertan, i'm testing it now :) - been using it all day :D19:52
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Venomrushjust happened when i was abroad i wanted to see just the contacts on the sim19:52
Venomrushthere was no way19:52
Venomrushi had to import19:52
Venomrushwhich took 15 mins :\19:52
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Venomrushthe sim was specific to that country, i just wanted to see the contact/number to show credit19:52
Venomrushbut had to import the entire sim entries19:52
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Khertan_Or maybe i should just made one app .... an installer that will download and install my apps ... will be easier and pass this -4_5#6(7 qa test19:53
ali1234submit a package that just adds your repo :)19:53
Khertan_ali1234. yep this is the idea19:54
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ali1234i did once consider making a package that would do that19:54
ali1234but since i would have to add first the repo to get my package, it was chicken and egg situation19:54
KFuriousbut with an ui as you can t put package without ui in user/section19:55
ali1234you can if you run your own repo19:55
KFuriousas elsewhere it will be refuse in qa test19:55
ali1234the state of extras is pretty bad19:55
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KFuriousclearly ... this sucks19:55
ali1234there QA process is totally wrong, and so all the good apps are stuck in testing and devel19:55
n00bmonk3ylol awww thankee venom for voting up healthcheck - bet it will get rejected due to the bugtracker in the end though :(19:56
KFuriousnow i can understand why sio2interactive cheat on the qa process19:56
ali1234first thing i have to do after reflashing N900 is add a bunch of repos to it19:56
KFuriousmaybe we should do a developper league to vote between us for others app !19:58
KFuriousor should we create our own repository ... and publish our app exclusively on it ... forcing users which want usefull app force them to add our repository19:58
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GeneralAntillesAh, what a nice little conversation here.20:00
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ljp_i think that might take jailbreaking your n900 :)20:02
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kFurious4[18:59] <KFurious> maybe we should do a developper league to vote between us for others app !n[19:00] <KFurious> or should we create our own repository ... and publish our app exclusively on it ... forcing users which want usefull app force them to add our repositoryn[19:01] <KFurious> ~ping20:03
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Pillumwhat is the shortcut for autocomplete with xchat?20:04
cehteh... still no one pointed me out how QA works ..20:04
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cehtehPillum: ctrl-space here .. but i think i configured it...20:04
cehtehsomewhere, forgotten where :)20:05
Pillumyeah....seems so20:05
kFurious4grrr since the tempest the 3g network coverage is really bad20:05
Pillumfor me it is changing input language20:05
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cehtehPillum: settings->advacned->..20:05
cehtehyes someone told that to me20:06
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Pillumit says "tab"20:06
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Pillumwhich one is the tabulator? :)20:06
cehtehyeah you have no tab key20:06
cehtehi remapped the tab to shift space .. bit strangely that didnt worked on xchat20:06
kFurious4So does there is other dev by making/using a common repository ?20:07
cehteh(but works in emacs :P)20:07
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kFurious4So does there is other dev interested by making/using a common repository ?20:07
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cehtehkFurious4: i would if i had useful software to share20:07
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n00bmonk3yooo GeneralAntilles spoke and my mirc died.... odd :|20:08
* Pillum jumps20:08
* n00bmonk3y blinks20:08
cehtehPillum: you can define your favorite shortcut for it20:09
Pillumyeah i know20:09
Pillumbut there was already a preconfigured one20:09
Pillumand it worked20:09
Pillumbut i dont know it....20:10
Pillumand the keyboard shortcuts dont work either20:11
pupnik_kFurious4: there are a couple out thee20:11
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cehtehmhm ... works for me20:14
GeneralAntilleskFurious4, yeah, it's called Extras. . . .20:15
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kFurious4GeneralAntilles it s will be called Extras Plus20:17
kFurious4or Better Extras20:17
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kFurious4or maybe Extras with apps in it20:17
GeneralAntillesIf you have issues with the QA process, address the QA process.20:18
cehtehExtraExtras :)20:18
kFurious4Hahaha are you serious20:18
mikkovQA is all about guarding that all bugtracker links are following thre rules (yes, there is rules)20:18
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kFurious4who take the decision on this rules ?20:19
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cehtehmaybe maemo should attract packagers additionally to developers .. i feel it always pita to package things20:19
mikkovwho ever happens to write to the wiki page20:19
nid0everyone has a hand in deciding the qa rules, if you want to change them, propose changes.20:20
kFurious4i ve add my think in the discussion of the pagbe20:20
mikkovnowadays rules are mostly changes without proposing or agreeing anything20:20
kFurious4cehteh specially when rules changs20:20
cehtehkFurious4: i just ignore rules :P20:21
n00bmonk3yHmmm question on bugrtracking....20:21
n00bmonk3yMy bugtracker is set as - p.xsbc_bugtracker=""20:21
kFurious4and without any warning20:21
n00bmonk3yyest the link is pointing at - xsbc-bugtracker:%20
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kFurious4i m just tired20:22
cehtehquote from the GPL:  "This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,"20:22
n00bmonk3yany ideas peeps?20:22
kFurious4and feeling that the "community" is now clearly dislocked20:22
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cehteh.. when i write free software then i think it is useful, if others disagree its not my problem20:22
kFurious4cehteh: currently i ll just stop any developpment20:23
kFurious4just doing things for me without publishing it20:23
GeneralAntillesn00bmonk3y, sure you don't just want a Bugzilla product?20:23
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n00bmonk3yHmmm, to be honest i'm not that thrilled with it, hard enough to learn linux, QT, Python and everything else.... Searched for over an hour on "How to create a bug Tracker" and there isn't one simple guide.... so read the QA process and it said nothing against using a forum post :) - of which i prefer - less logins, and less confusion for me :P20:25
cehtehkFurious4: well thats bad too .. no way to publish and annonce it at least.. but dont care about the rest?20:25
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cehtehput it on some server out there, announce it on tmo .. done20:25
Khertani ve already stop to read tmo20:25
Khertansince the announce of the n90020:26
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cehtehstopping reading it doesnt prevent you from posting there :P20:26
n00bmonk3ywould help if that was linked on the autobuilder - or actually anywhere lol :P20:26
n00bmonk3ythanks though20:26
n00bmonk3ylol! - i have to send an email to do it....20:26
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Khertanto create a product in bmo send an email20:27
n00bmonk3ythats just an extra annoyancy lol20:27
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Khertanto create a new version im the product list send an email20:27
Khertanthis isn t serious !20:27
n00bmonk3yi'm sure i'm annoying testers, but... aghhhh thats not a well thought out, easy/user friendly process :(20:27
* cehteh didnt looked into the intended publishing process20:27
n00bmonk3ymeh, gonna try n fix the forum link i think20:27
n00bmonk3ybut i'm not gonna be able to stop it pointing at the wrong place am i ? :(20:28
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Khertanand of course i think that with meego it ll be worse and more complicated20:29
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cehtehdunno maybe its even easier20:29
n00bmonk3yooo intruiging... not using a debian control file - using autobuilder20:29
Khertancehteh: with rpm !20:29
n00bmonk3yso this line - p.xsbc_bugtracker="" should work - and it isn't :(20:29
Khertanreally !20:29
GeneralAntillesn00bmonk3y, it's not difficult.20:30
cehtehKhertan: i dont care .. I release software as source and hope for someone packaging it :)20:30
Khertanp.xsbc_bugtracker ? are you using pypackager ?20:30
n00bmonk3yit is :(20:30
GeneralAntillesn00bmonk3y, an email will take you all of 5 minutes20:30
n00bmonk3yerm using build_***.py method20:30
GeneralAntillesand your users will thank you.20:30
n00bmonk3ynot really, the testers will20:30
KhertanGeneralAntilles: are you doing packaging yourself ?20:30
n00bmonk3ybut thats their prefferred method20:30
n00bmonk3yhaving extra logins etc20:30
pupnik_can i play sound clips to people over phone?20:30
GeneralAntillesKhertan, why is that relevant? I'm talking about adding a product to bugzilla.20:30
n00bmonk3yi find myself in an odd position of not wanting to use all the developer tools... (Not really a developer tbh.....) and much prefer the talk.maemo awy of keep up to date, but its just a personal preference20:31
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n00bmonk3yif it was all simple, with one log in, and done in english, might change my mind...  Just way to complicated for Joe-Bloggs the newbie....20:32
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* GeneralAntilles shrugs.20:32
GeneralAntillesDevelopment isn't really a simple thing.20:32
n00bmonk3ywell, the coding bit was easy then the publishing bit ;)20:32
GeneralAntillesIf you have questions, ask.20:32
GeneralAntillesPeople have different skill sets.20:33
n00bmonk3ybut then i am doing a simple tool i suppose ;)20:33
n00bmonk3yi'm good at eating if that helps? lol ;)20:33
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n00bmonk3ywb khert20:33
khertan219:32] <GeneralAntilles>  Khertan, why is that relevant? I'm talking about adding a product to bugzilla.n[19:33] <Khertan> because each time you made new version / package you need to add a new product version in the bugtracker ... so send a email and wait !n[19:34] <Khertan> wait ... wait ... wait ...20:34
n00bmonk3y:( if it was automated it would make life alot easier :)20:34
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n00bmonk3yautobuilder - add product.... Retruns, your new bug tracker is... xxx20:35
khertan2this is far from the spirit .... release as often possible ... fix it as often possible20:35
GeneralAntilleskhertan2, or ping me here.20:35
GeneralAntilleskhertan2, unfortunately this is the reality with our old bugzilla install20:35
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GeneralAntillesKarsten should have 3.4 up by the end of the month, however.20:35
n00bmonk3ywhich is probably why i'm prefering talk.maemo.org20:35
n00bmonk3ywhich hasn't been discounted by the QA process20:35
n00bmonk3yit just wont let me put the link in without adding xsbc-bugtracker: in front of it :(20:36
khertan2n00bmonk3y : not yet20:36
n00bmonk3ynot yet to which bit? lol20:36
khertan2n00bmonkey are you using pypackager ?20:36
khertan2or py2deb ?20:36
n00bmonk3ybut the 20 mins i spent talking on here i coulda sorted the problem out... instead i'm strill trying to figure it out lol :P20:37
n00bmonk3yerm, the auto builder one that uses build_***.py method lol20:37
khertan2ah ok sorry20:37
n00bmonk3yis that the packager?20:37
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n00bmonk3ysorry did it a few weeks ago, and just automate it now20:37
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Shapeshiftern00bmonk3y: py2deb that is.20:37
n00bmonk3yahhh cheers Shapeshifter20:37
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n00bmonk3ythat bit works well :D20:38
* Shapeshifter used it today the first time20:38
khertan2because there was a bug in previous version of pypackager20:38
n00bmonk3yi just edit my code, change the build file and run it :)20:38
khertan2which is now fixed20:38
n00bmonk3yooo maybe i need to update it? will go check20:38
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khertan2(and is of course available in extras-devel only)20:38
n00bmonk3ypretty sure mine is up to date20:38
Shapeshifterbtw, any clues why some apps don't show their proper icon in the app menu right after installation? Some apps seem to, some other dont.20:39
ali1234users won't thank you for using b.m.o as bug tracker20:39
ali1234users will moan about how bugzilla sucks20:39
khertan2shapeshifter it s a bug :)20:39
* SpeedEvil will.20:39
Shapeshiftermost of the time, a reboot is required to show the icon20:39
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khertan2but wont fix20:39
Shapeshifterkhertan2: >.>20:39
cehteh.. who thinks debians QA is insane didnt seen Maemo yet :>20:39
khertan2as the more menu will disapear in 1.220:39
n00bmonk3yali1234 - users, or testers?20:39
khertan2as the more menu will disapear in pr1.220:40
Shapeshifterkhertan2: ahh20:40
GeneralAntillesWhat a fun crowd tonight.20:40
n00bmonk3ywe aim to please GeneralAntilles20:40
ali1234n00bmonk3y: users. i don't know what "testers" means20:40
n00bmonk3ylatest pypackager installed20:40
nid0users wont care what you use as a bugtracker20:40
ali1234does "testers" mean the people who do QA?20:40
n00bmonk3yali1234 - why will a user not like the tmo approach? - thats as far as most users get.... needing to register for bugzilla is a chore and annoying, and not user friendly20:41
nid0because theyll just post "xxx duznt wurk" on tmo in some irrelevant forum regardless of what bugtracker is used20:41
n00bmonk3yyes ali123420:41
ali1234n00bmonk3y: because bugzilla is extremely difficult to use for users20:41
n00bmonk3yfine by me, i can tidy them up and list them :)20:41
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: why?20:41
ali1234n00bmonk3y: most users would rather post bugs on a forum thread than try to deal with it20:41
n00bmonk3yyup ali1234 my point :) - tmo is easier for people to post - granted the posts dont look pretty20:41
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, lots of complaining.20:41
n00bmonk3ybut i prefer it there too :)20:41
khertan2GeneralAntilles : thx to haven t use the word whine20:42
cehtehali1234: which is ok ... i prefer users send me bug reports in simple words (but more than "does not work") instead spamming a bug tracker with noise20:42
ali1234cehteh: everyone prefers that20:42
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khertan2specially with that new qa rules20:42
cehtehsometimes i have doubts about that20:43
khertan2which make search in bmo more complicated20:43
SpeedEvilbugtracker on 4chan. Everyone wins.20:43
cehtehSpeedEvil: haha20:43
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khertan2yep 4chan should be added in the wiki as a validate bug tracker link20:44
mikkovjavispedro: around?20:46
n00bmonk3yhow abouts to ease the annoyancey now, when autobuilder goes through it auto-emails for the new bugzilla link? :D - allthough a bit late then i suppose lol20:46
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ali1234i seem to recall a thread on t.m.o where it was stated that "we use bugzilla because it is easy for developers"20:48
khertan2good evening everyone .. and bye20:48
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GeneralAntillesWe use bugzilla because it's robust, scalable, does what we need it to do and lots of people know how to use it.20:48
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n00bmonk3ylol ali1234 - but i'm more of a user then a techy/developer - would much rather things spelt out, in simple order...20:49
Shapeshifterwhats wrong with bugzilla?20:49
mecemikkov, in maemo5 sdk, is the SDL_mixer in i386 not working? I recall you writing something about it somewhere20:49
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, it's bugzilla.20:49
n00bmonk3yIt really is hard enough to learn to code for #maemo without a list of 20 things to do before you can publish20:49
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: huh...20:50
ali1234Shapeshifter: it is extremely hard to use and doesn't integrate well into the rest of, especially the QA process20:50
* Shapeshifter likes flyspray for that matter20:50
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GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, people hate bugzilla because it's bugzilla.20:50
Shapeshifterali1234: hard to use?...20:50
meceI like bugzilla20:50
ali1234Shapeshifter: yes, hard to use. if i find a bug and try to see if it has already been reported, well, it is almost impossible20:51
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meceali1234, ok, I agree with that one. I'm absolutely clueless as to how I'm supposed see if an issue has been reported.20:51
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GeneralAntillesThe quicksearch defaults are idiotic and need changing.20:52
n00bmonk3yGeneral - you know what you are doing - what about someone who joined a few weeks ago and wants to help out testing?20:52
n00bmonk3yIts not really friendly is it?20:52
GeneralAntillesn00bmonk3y, lots of people are around to help20:53
GeneralAntillesWe all had to start there.20:53
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GeneralAntillesIt's also my intention to make the process easier20:53
n00bmonk3ytrue, but wouldnt life be easier if the help wasnt needed? and things just worked?20:53
GeneralAntillesPart of this comes with the 3.4 upgrade, the rest with some additional work.20:53
n00bmonk3yhad to remember how to use mirc to get quick help as threads can take a few days...20:54
GeneralAntillesn00bmonk3y, yes, utopia is always easier. :)20:54
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n00bmonk3yGeneralAntilles - i think you are missing the point... if we can make it easier to help, thats a good thing?20:54
GeneralAntillesBut reality is rarely the same thing.20:54
GeneralAntillesn00bmonk3y, sure, and that's what I'm trying to do20:54
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GeneralAntillesit doesn't happen overnight, however. :)20:54
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n00bmonk3ywell i asked a question 40 minutes ago and got no help lol.. just told to use bugtracker which according to the QA process i do not currently have to do......20:55
n00bmonk3yallthough i agree, i know you are trying to help :)20:55
* GeneralAntilles can see this isn't going anywhere productive.20:55
* GeneralAntilles will eat lunch instead.20:55
n00bmonk3yi'm just a bit pedantic because i'm annoyed :P20:55
mecen00bmonk3y, what was the question?20:55
n00bmonk3yLol ty mece :D20:55
n00bmonk3yin my file i have the line p.xsbc_bugtracker=""20:56
* mece have been building lego castles for the last 2 hours, so he hasn't really checked tmo.20:56
n00bmonk3yyet the bugtracker link is showing as - xsbc-bugtracker:%20
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n00bmonk3ynot sure where the beginning bugtracker bit is coming from?20:56
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n00bmonk3ybut gen is annoyed because i dont want to use bugzilla, because i find it counter productive and prefer to use tmo lol20:57
mece%20 means space..20:58
meceso what is the issue?20:59
n00bmonk3ylol yup, got that bit ;)20:59
n00bmonk3ylook at the bugtracker link on there20:59
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n00bmonk3yi cant find out why the link has the beginning bit, when i am only setting it to = the tmo thread link20:59
meceahaa IC20:59
n00bmonk3ythe app is being voted down - ok... i probably should get a bugzilla account  - but i do not like bugzilla... so.... i'm sticking to something i know :D21:00
mecewhat does the build script look like then?21:00
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n00bmonk3y (Never used pastebin b4, did it work?)21:01
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meceseems to be a py2deb bug (are you using py2deb?)21:03
meceI have the same issue with mine..21:03
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n00bmonk3yahhhhh (lol no idea, possibly- i used a method that was easy and worked) one of the two lol21:04
n00bmonk3ycreates 3 files when run21:04
n00bmonk3yi upload them to autobuilder21:04
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meceyep. same one. Apparently there's a bug.21:04
mecelemme check.21:04
n00bmonk3yhmmm so my app could be rejected due to a bug with the uploading lol :P yayness21:05
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meceyep. just edit debian/control21:05
n00bmonk3yahhhh, got no files at all in debain folder21:05
meceyou see the problem right away.21:05
meceoh right..21:05
n00bmonk3y:D hehe21:05
meceyou need to unpack the tar21:06
n00bmonk3yso new to coding hadnt had the need to learn that yet21:06
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mecetoo bad khertan left already21:06
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mecethat was convenient...21:06
n00bmonk3yevery time i build it i'ma gonna need to unpack it to edit a file and repack? :(21:06
ali1234mece: khertan had a different problem21:07
n00bmonk3ypity because i like just doing it on the device, and that just gets complicated :(21:07
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mecekhertan made py2deb21:07
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* n00bmonk3y thinks khertan is clever lol21:07
khertanHi again ...21:07
n00bmonk3ykhertan did i mention i love you?21:07
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* khertan finally found some time to back again21:07
ali1234mece: oic21:07
mecekhertan, py2deb makes bugtracker url wrong.21:07
khertann00bmonk3y: ? uhm ... nope didn't remember that21:08
khertanmece: ?21:08
n00bmonk3y= my build file -
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n00bmonk3ycheck the bug link here -
mecekhertan, in debian/control, you get this type of problem: XSBC-Bugtracker: XSBC-Bugtracker: http://bugs.maemo.org21:08
n00bmonk3ymece described it better and quicker :)21:08
khertanXSBC-Bugtracker should be converted by autobuilder21:09
meceoh.. hmm.21:09
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mecedoesn't autobuilder use debian/control?21:09
khertanfor source only21:09
khertanfor binary upload with dput it doesn't of course21:09
mecekhertan, ok, well where does it get the url to bugtracker then?21:09
khertanok ...21:10
fzfq3mHi.. has somebody used the pidgin extra protocols for conversations integration? More specifically with Facebook Account21:10
khertani understand you use py2deb21:10
mecesince that error in control appeared before autobuilder touched it.21:10
khertannot pypackager21:10
n00bmonk3yi need to confirm this dont i lol21:10
khertani ve merge recently py2deb and pypackager to pypackager21:11
khertanwith changes for the new QA rules21:11
meceit says "import py2deb" so yea, you use py2deb also, n00bmonk3y21:11
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khertanlet me 5 minutes to convert your script to pypackager21:11
n00bmonk3yyay ty mce21:11
n00bmonk3yhmmm hold on21:11
Shapeshifterkhertan: do you have a guide for such a conversion? I got a py2deb script as well, I guess I need to convert it soon as well.21:11
n00bmonk3yeverytime i build it will be wrong tho?21:11
mecekhertan, well a sample script would be sufficient for me-21:12
khertanShapeshifter: not yet :)21:12
* n00bmonk3y just checked - py2deb installed :)21:12
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meceI guess we'll be getting a sample script in n00bmonk3y script :)21:13
meceanyway I've gotta split. the wife is beating me with a stick.21:13
fzfq3mFacebook contacts are created just when the user(Friend) get connected to facebook while I connected too!!! is that normal??21:13
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khertan <- the script i use for pygtkeditor21:13
n00bmonk3ythanks mece21:13
n00bmonk3yand lol21:13
ali1234fzfq3m: no, but it probably is dependent on how facebook and the pidgin plugin for it works21:14
ali1234fzfq3m: for most protocols you should get all contacts when you connect, but maybe facebook just doesn't allow that21:14
meceoh.. I have a few minutes still heh.21:14
n00bmonk3yassume i just need to run it?21:15
ali1234fzfq3m: in particular, pidgin/MSN does not have this problem. i didn't try any others21:15
fzfq3mali1234: It works that way for me... I though I did something wrong and then I reflashed my N900 (Firmware and eMMC) but still the same21:15
fzfq3mali123: yeah.. I also use it with MSN and it works OK... all msn contacts are created at once!!!21:16
ShapeshifterI thought facebook went XMPP now.21:16
meceyeah facebook is xmpp21:17
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mecethat's the correct way to do it.21:17
user478964415n00bmonk3y: should be ok after an apt-get install pypackager :)21:17
mecehehe nice nick khertan :)21:17
user478964415this is the bot21:18
Shapeshifterfzfq3m: just follow this to make yourself an XMPP facebook address and then add it as a jabber service.21:18
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khertanso converting script is easy21:19
khertanjust take care of some changes in name :)21:19
fzfq3mShapeshifter: yeah... I also tried using jabber account against But I like the way that facebook plugin adds the contact... it just use user id.. something like 54946496521:19
khertanand now you can with the same script generate source package or binary package21:19
fzfq3mShapeshifter: Anyway I will revert back to jabber21:19
Shapeshifterfzfq3m: the old facebook chat is an abominations21:20
khertanbut i didn't think that my packaging tools was usefull to other ... i was thinking i'm the only one to use it21:20
fzfq3mShapeshifter: Why is that??21:20
mecekhertan, it's the only way I could get anything done.21:20
khertanShapeshifter: facebook is an abominations21:20
mecesure it is.21:20
khertanmece: oh ? really ? you are an other onboard developpers like me ?21:21
khertanusing a netbook in the metro is cleary not possible :)21:21
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khertanevery apps i do for maemo was writted in the train or in the metro21:21
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Shapeshifterfzfq3m: total crap protocol and implementation. just forget it ever happened.21:22
mecekhertan, I write mine on the crapper21:22
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khertann00bmonk3y: does the script works ?21:23
khertanthere is also : p.display_name as you can see in pypackager21:23
n00bmonk3ynot tried yet, just had a shower - gotta go out in 10 - trying to run it now :)21:24
fzfq3mShapeshifter: lol .... Then I will use jabber instead21:24
fzfq3mShapeshifter: Thanks21:24
khertanmaybe one day i should learn wiki syntax to edit
* khertan hate wiki21:24
mecekhertan, paste it there raw, and I'll make it look nicer.21:24
mecebut not right now. gotta go. for reals now. tata.21:25
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n00bmonk3ydo i just run it on my device?21:25
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mikkovmece: what's the problem with SDL_mixer?21:28
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dang_can someone tell me what the path is to save wallpapers in?21:30
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n00bmonk3ymikkov - mece left :(21:30
caratorndang_: I think it's MyDocs/.images/21:31
n00bmonk3yno idea, sorry dang :P21:31
dang_caratorn: thanks a lot!21:31
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khertanbye everyone21:47
khertann00bmonk3y: if you have any question just send me a mail at khertan@khertan.net21:47
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corecodezsh: segmentation fault  ./modest -s21:55
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khertanSomeone have already try android here ? did you can do onboard development with a such OS ?22:01
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corecodedid you can do?22:05
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khertancorecode: i mean can you write code on the device ... and run it directly22:09
corecodewrong channel i suppose22:09
khertancorecode: without needs of a desktop computer to code, build, package22:09
khertancorecode: yep ... and not :)22:09
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khertanjust to know if some maemo user have already use / see a android os22:09
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khertanfor my part ... i never22:10
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* Stskeeps ponders idly to go on a shopping spree and buying all calvin and hobbes comic books22:11
GeneralAntillesDidn't they release a collection a few years ago?22:11
Stskeepsyeah, just saw it22:11
GeneralAntillesFriend of mine has the Far Side collection22:12
GeneralAntillesIt's a decent set.22:12
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pupnik_stupid philosophers though22:12
Stskeepsthen again, it would be a bit cliche to start collecting comic books at this age22:12
* GeneralAntilles shrugs.22:13
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GeneralAntillesCalvin and Hobbes aint exactly Spiderman.22:13
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corecodegreat.  modest segfaults on my desktop22:15
corecodehow's that supposed to work on my n900 then22:16
khertandoes you desktop is an arm cpu ?22:16
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khertanmaybe you got your answer :)22:17
satmdwell, he assumes you have taken the plain binary and try to run it on the desktop22:17
corecodethat would be plain stupid22:17
corecodei compiled it from git22:17
* satmd thought of X forwarding and qemu22:18
khertani didn't remember if modest is available in the sdk ... but try to run it on scratchbox before, i ll not be surprise if there is some glitches on x8622:18
corecodei didn't have time to look into scratchbox use22:18
khertansame :22:19
corecodei installed it22:19
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corecodebut that's all22:19
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khertani didn't finish the install ... too much error due to my 64bits install22:20
khertanoh god you cannot made onboard dev on Android OS22:21
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corecodestrange, i have 64bit as well here22:21
corecodeand it worked without problems22:21
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* Shapeshifter is not very happy with libalarm22:23
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khertancorecode: yep but it s maybe due to old ubuntu install ... upgraded ... upgraded ... upgraded ... with custom things on it22:26
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toggles_wShapeshifter: not very intuitive is it22:26
Shapeshiftertoggles_w: not very22:26
Shapeshiftertoggles_w: also, the doc is obscure and error reporting isn't that good22:26
toggles_wShapeshifter: yeah, i gave up and used bash ;-)22:27
Shapeshiftertoggles_w: I'm writing a frontend22:27
toggles_wShapeshifter: yeah, i started that too, figured for all i wanted to do a crappy cron script in bash was faster to implement and easier to maintain, plus cross platform...22:28
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GeneralAntillesHopefully to be replaced in MeeGo22:28
Shapeshiftertoggles_w: I just want automatic gprs-data resetting. I got that now22:29
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: D:22:29
toggles_wGeneralAntilles: another reason not to bother22:29
Shapeshifterthen all my work was for nothing22:29
GeneralAntillesProbably still in Harmattan22:29
mmarc__guys, could we put a firewall onto n900? I've got gprs traffic leak with messangers turned off and no usage.22:29
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: they _could_ just use cron imo >.>22:29
SpeedEvilmmarc__: gprs leak doing what22:29
SpeedEvilmmarc__: inbound or out?22:29
SpeedEvilmmarc__: tcpdump!22:30
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GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, there were a variety of reasons why that wasn't workable back in the day.22:30
ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: back in the day? is it old?22:30
mmarc__data counter counted 1.5 megabytes of gprs traffic on idle state, without any usage. I can't stand with this, it's not cheap in my area.22:30
GeneralAntillesShapeshifter, i.e., 770/N800 timeframe.22:30
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ShapeshifterGeneralAntilles: mhhh22:31
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SpeedEvilmmarc__: is it possibly the autoupdate?22:31
mmarc__1.5 megs just in two last hours22:31
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SpeedEvilmmarc__: I'd first tcpdump it - and see what it is.22:31
GeneralAntillesmmarc__, N900 is a data-intensive device.22:31
SpeedEvildata intensive device doesn't mean it should do shit without permission.22:32
mmarc__I'd like all this autocrap to turn on with wifi available only. Thanks, I will try tcpdump22:32
SpeedEvilautoupdate or other things ever kicking in over gprs (and not configurable not to) is a bug.22:33
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mmarc__I never have such gprs bills before, as for last few days, if nokia thinks we have gprs for free, it will get its phone back with refund request.22:35
ShapeshifterMhh, this is such a pain. This just raises InvalidEventException, which appens when alarmd_event_add(event.obj) returns 0 as the cookie. No reason given why it wont get added22:35
Shapeshiftermh. trial and error showed... some random behaviour. now it worked22:36
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* Shapeshifter goes back pondering22:36
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ShapeshifterMhh. alarmd is just weird. I have this event which is supposed to just ring an alarm once an hour. So I have action_stop.flags |= (alarm.ACTION_WHEN_RESPONDED | alarm.ACTION_TYPE_NOP) and a stop and a snooze button. Now, the first time, it waits until the correct time to ring the alarm the first time. But then, if I hit "Stop", it will ring again every minute. Doesn't matter if I do or do not set recurrence.mask_min |= ...22:56
Shapeshifter... alarm.RECUR_MIN_DONTCARE. I don't even get what this "DONTCARE" is about its so badly documented.22:56
Shapeshifterand if I set alarm.ACTION_TYPE_DISABLE instead of NOP, it will be definetely disabled.22:56
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ShadowJKI expect I will just set gprs to "always ask" when I go travel22:57
SpeedEvilalways ask is a bit broken though.22:57
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ShadowJKhow come?22:57
SpeedEvilIf I open up the web browser to look at a small text page - I don't want something else getting in and deciding it'd like to download a meg.22:58
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SpeedEvilGetting it right is hard though.22:58
SpeedEvilyou'd want soemthing like quotas.22:58
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ShadowJKmaybe i'll just get a prepaid card with data :)22:59
ShadowJKinstead of using roaming data22:59
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SpeedEvilGenerally a good plan.22:59
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jacekowskiShadowJK: i did that in US23:02
jacekowskiShadowJK: and i've used $100 in 20 minutes23:02
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GeneralAntillesThere's no such thing as pre-paid data in the US.23:04
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ShadowJKI heard there was one23:04
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burchrGeneralAntilles: *waves hand* - this is not the paid data you are looking for? :)23:06
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jacekowskiGeneralAntilles: there is23:06
jacekowskiGeneralAntilles: i had sim from at&t23:06
GeneralAntillesjacekowski, from whom?23:06
jacekowskiit took me a lot of walking from one place to antoher23:07
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Shapeshifterprepaid data is like 20 usd for 1GB for one month in germany ;)23:09
ShadowJK"Alditalk's monthly flatrate for € 14.99/30 days (eplus network, no HSPA, partial EDGE-coverage, frequent network congestions) "23:09
ShadowJK ?23:09
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Shapeshifteryeah stuff like that23:10
Shapeshifterit's not _that_ bad.23:10
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pupnik_now that n900 nolonger forwards all my incoming calls to a random stranger, i am happy with tschibo/o2 germany23:17
pupnik_probably pebkac too23:17
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toggles_wi hate pebkac23:21
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johnsqArif_: what keyboard hi -> so?23:29
Arif_Not any that I used23:30
rzrhi are there broken n900 owners around ?
rzri was wondering if replacement ones are more reliable, because i plan to get one soon23:32
Arif_I keep mine falling around but it still works :D23:33
zaheermpeople at nokia have said it's a warranty issue and that they should contact nokia care for a replacement23:33
rzryes they said23:34
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rzrbut is the replacement better ?23:34
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zaheermno clue but the replacement would also be under warranty23:34
Arif_will it charge the phone faster :D23:34
johnsqthe warrenty starts new on this part23:34
rzror redesigned ?23:34
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opdf2is this chan for general n900 talk as well?23:38
Arif_as well?23:38
Arif_what else is it for?23:39
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HoxzerArif_: probably n770-N810 too23:40
Arif_only 4 people have one of those anyway23:40
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joker_89Hello,anyone uses python?23:44
Khertan_ what to add to a such discussion : bye see you on an other plateform ?23:44
* Arif_ invites Khertan_ to android23:46
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dreginKhertan_: you're looking at the aemo bug tracker23:47
Khertan_Arif i m already on #android23:47
joker_89anyone programming with python?23:48
lcukjoker_89, ask your question23:48
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joker_89i have problems with the pys60, with import urllib.openurl23:48
joker_89says AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'urlopen'23:48
lcukyes im sure some are23:49
lcukexcuse me s60?23:49
joker_89can i put maemo on a n85?23:51
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lcuki dunno, i dont have one23:51
Khertan_ <-- dput the package 1.0.6 this morning ... 12h later still not in extras devel ...23:51
joker_89lcuk you have maemo?23:51
lcuka bit yeah23:52
joker_89waht mobile?23:52
Khertan_im tired all this fucking process sucks ! i m tired ...23:52
lcukjoker_89, n90023:52
lcukkhertan, thats not good23:52
joker_89n900 to expensive23:52
* Arif_ blinks23:53
zaheermjoker_89, maybe there is a channel #symbian you can go to to ask the python s60 question23:53
Khertan_no more try to push in extras23:53
Khertan_bye maemo .. and no nogo !23:53
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joker_89this channel is dead23:53
Arif_he couldn't wait for Moogo23:53
zaheermjoker_89, which channel is dead?23:54
dreginyou came in asking ridiculous questions and pronounce the channel dead?23:54
zaheermjoker_89, bear in mind we are not gods, we know very little about symbian programming23:54
zaheermjoker_89, maemo is more different to symbian than windows to mac os x23:54
dreginthank god :P23:55
joker_89but there ara few mobiles with maemo23:55
joker_89why this hcannel is full?23:55
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Shapeshifterhe's a joker.23:55
dreginwhy not?23:55
zaheermjoker_89, there is one mobile phone with maemo 5, that is Nokia N90023:55
joker_89and its to expensive23:55
zaheermjoker_89, there are 4 other devices running maemo made by nokia23:55
Arif_wait 4?23:56
Arif_whats the 4th?23:56
zaheerm770, n800, n810, n810 we23:56
dreginNokia 3210 has it I HEARD23:56
Arif_with snake!23:56
joker_89and anyone have symbian?23:56
* lbt thinks about all the devices Mer went onto... that's essentially maemo23:56
zaheermjoker_89, symbian phones are cheaper generally23:57
Arif_I have a gameboy 95 8Bit edition23:57
zaheermjoker_89, the people who program symbian are probably sleeping now, go back tomorrow morning23:57
dreginwhy are you in a maemo channel demanding information on a completely different operating system?23:57
zaheermjoker_89, go back to #symbian that is23:57
joker_89always ara sleeping23:57
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joker_89what time is it?23:57
zaheermjoker_89, look at the clock23:58
opdf2i understand that nothing has been official sed on maemo 6, meego on n900, but is the outlook on n900 software support healthy?23:58
lcukjoker_89, perhaps you are expecting too much and not asking the right questions, getting responses out of people in irc is like fishing.  you have to have the correct sort of bait23:58
Shapeshifterlcuk: wow you're a friendly fellow ;)23:58
zaheermjoker_89, also you can propbably use google to find an answer to your question, i hear they do a good search facility for the web23:59
opdf2its the only 1700 wcdma device with qwerty keyboard what is not Tmobile branded, so I'm looking to get one23:59
lcukShapeshifter :)23:59
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joker_89i search and i dont get information23:59
joker_89and dont work on emulator23:59
zaheermjoker_89, well i can help a little23:59
zaheermjoker_89, do: import urllib23:59
joker_89i do this23:59
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