| Shapeshifter | I mean, I also see it's the name of the file, some sort of revision maybe, a date and his name... but why? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, the maemo.org logo in there is a bit ironic. | 00:00 |
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| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: the entire ad is weird. | 00:01 |
| v13 | Shapeshifter: It's from the svn. just ignore it. it's useful for knowing what revision is this file from. | 00:01 |
| javispedro | I wonder what it tries to .. symbolize. | 00:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, apparently Mozilla employees are all moles? | 00:01 |
| spider_ | Firefox is still too slow compared to MicroB | 00:01 |
| javispedro | GeneralAntilles: I understood the opposite: that all Nokia employees (and maemo.org) are moles, working underground for the only Mozilla employee. | 00:01 |
| Shapeshifter | v13: I see | 00:02 |
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| v13 | Shapeshifter: fwiw, it says: setup.py revision 2266 changes 2010-02-21 19:33:27Z by v13 | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, who only does QA? :D | 00:02 |
| pupnik | zoutube also cannot accept youtube urls directly | 00:03 |
| javispedro | heh, if his paws allow him to do qa :) | 00:03 |
| Shapeshifter | v13: mhh | 00:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | Firefox is often faster than microb I find | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | even usually, on slower networks | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, I bet they work great on the capacitive N900+1. :rolleyes: | 00:04 |
| * javispedro wonders where is the maemo.org underground mole base | 00:04 | |
| javispedro | in Finland for sure, since it's all snowy >:) | 00:04 |
| spider_ | SpeedEvil: really? faster than MicroB? | 00:04 |
| SpeedEvil | spider_: yes. | 00:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | spider_: forex ~20%-30% faster at painting www.ebay.com www.slashdot.com | 00:05 |
| SpeedEvil | spider_: especially if you kill microb first | 00:05 |
| spider_ | mmhh...maybe downloading webpages...but opening windows, options and so on I found it slower | 00:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Only because the Gecko is newer. | 00:06 |
| SpeedEvil | spider_: perhaps - in some ways. Tabs is a great speedup for me | 00:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | PR1.2 may catch up. | 00:06 |
| spider_ | yeah, I agree | 00:06 |
| Shapeshifter | uhm | 00:06 |
| SpeedEvil | The task manager blows in general - which is the larger problem | 00:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fennec has a newer, faster engine, MicroB has the faster native UI. | 00:06 |
| SpeedEvil | you can't flip between windows. | 00:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, somebody has a patched h-d running around somewhere. | 00:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, do you have the camera key/proximity daemon installed? | 00:07 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: yes. camkeyd IIRC | 00:07 |
| Shapeshifter | so, in which repo is this firefox. I can't seem to find it | 00:08 |
| matthew- | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_JxD0l2uPo | 00:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, Ovi Store :rolleyes: | 00:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because the Mozilla people are lazy bastards. | 00:09 |
| Shapeshifter | pff | 00:09 |
| Shapeshifter | :3 | 00:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shapeshifter, seriously. | 00:09 |
| javispedro | I guess Nokia may have played a part in this. | 00:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | They couldn't be bothered to fix their packaging so they decided to distribute through the Ovi Store. | 00:10 |
| Shapeshifter | the firefox people should get their whole app structure sorted anyway | 00:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Indeed | 00:10 |
| Shapeshifter | what a mess. | 00:10 |
| * Shapeshifter is only waiting for chromium to get a frontend to no-script like features (which have finally been implemented for a couple of weeks) to switch away from that lazy fox | 00:11 | |
| Shapeshifter | (on the desktop) | 00:11 |
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| pupnik | what is better than microb Shapeshifter ? | 00:12 |
| lcuk | thanks matthew- :) | 00:12 |
| lcuk | is there a maemo tunes radio station :p | 00:12 |
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| pupnik | with javacrap pausing it doesnt chew much cpu usually | 00:12 |
| Arif_ | anyone know if you can tell KMPlayer to play a file with a shortcut? | 00:13 |
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| Shapeshifter | pupnik: mh? I meant, on the desktop, where I'm using firefox, I'm waiting for chromium to get a wee bit better to switch. on the n900, I'm using microb. I don't find it that bad. Tad slow really | 00:13 |
| Shapeshifter | which is to be expected | 00:14 |
| * n00bmonk3y blinks | 00:15 | |
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| javispedro | you all need to play a bit with a n810. | 00:20 |
| javispedro | if you say "microb is slow". | 00:20 |
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| * javispedro wonders which wikipedia admin allowed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#PS3_Date_Controversy | 00:22 | |
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| Stskeeps | wtf | 00:24 |
| Shapeshifter | javispedro: guess so. It's still like 5-50 times slower then anything I have on my lap top. I'd still say mobile computing sucks big time. The n900 is actually my first mobile on contract that does more then just SMS... | 00:25 |
| pupnik | heh true javispedro | 00:25 |
| Shapeshifter | it's pretty decent. Actually, I love it :D Still, it's relatively bad. Or, far away of what I'd like to have | 00:25 |
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| ClaesBas | Does anybody here know howto get ÅÄÖ to work (UTF-8) with OpenSSH from the N900 to "screen:ed irssi"? | 00:27 |
| v13 | javispedro: that article is not locked in any way, so there was no need for "allowing". You can change it yourself :) | 00:27 |
| nid0 | the n900's browsing experience is the first i've found that stands up against my archos imt (which is really nice to browse with), so things are at least going in the right direction | 00:27 |
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| javispedro | v13: if I delete the entire paragraph (which is the only real solution) the only thing I'm going to create is a flame war. | 00:28 |
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| javispedro | s/paragraph/section | 00:28 |
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| nid0 | I saved you the trouble. | 00:29 |
| javispedro | speaking about flames, piracy thread in tmo. | 00:29 |
| Arif_ | lol | 00:29 |
| v13 | javispedro: I believe it is ok if you delete it and move it in the "discussion" page | 00:30 |
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| javispedro | nid0: well, thanks :D | 00:30 |
| Arif_ | piracy is bad 'mkay | 00:30 |
| Arif_ | =P | 00:30 |
| luke-jr | yes, please do not kill innocent people while you raid their ships at high seas | 00:30 |
| luke-jr | :( | 00:30 |
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| javispedro | ah, the entire article's been trolled now | 00:32 |
| luke-jr | javispedro: why not allow it? | 00:32 |
| javispedro | luke-jr: did you really read it? | 00:32 |
| luke-jr | javispedro: yeah | 00:33 |
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| luke-jr | it gets slightly off-topic, but other than that... | 00:33 |
| javispedro | "sligthly"? | 00:33 |
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| luke-jr | wait | 00:33 |
| luke-jr | PS3 | 00:33 |
| luke-jr | that isn't ARM... | 00:33 |
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| Xisdibik | Heya everyone | 00:36 |
| Arif_ | hai | 00:36 |
| Xisdibik | hows everyone today? | 00:36 |
| Arif_ | productive | 00:36 |
| Arif_ | I saved myself a lot of time today :P | 00:36 |
| pupnik | http://www.pygame.org/project-Barbie+Seahorse+Adventures-406-.html nice side scroller in pygame | 00:37 |
| Xisdibik | Barbie | 00:37 |
| Xisdibik | sounds scary | 00:37 |
| Arif_ | yes | 00:37 |
| Arif_ | port it to maemo! | 00:37 |
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| Xisdibik | Arif_: ive been productive today at work too, its 2:30 and im finally eating lunch. Wish i didnt have to be productive today though as its my birthday. | 00:38 |
| Arif_ | oh | 00:38 |
| Arif_ | I don't work | 00:38 |
| Arif_ | oh sorry to hear you got old ;( | 00:38 |
| Arif_ | er | 00:38 |
| Xisdibik | heh | 00:38 |
| Xisdibik | 25 isnt that old! | 00:38 |
| SpeedEvil | Xisdibik: yes it is. | 00:38 |
| Arif_ | wow | 00:38 |
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| Arif_ | I'm not even 20! | 00:38 |
| Xisdibik | heh | 00:38 |
| Xisdibik | you young whippersnappers! | 00:39 |
| Arif_ | there you go | 00:39 |
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| Xisdibik | why i remember when i was young, we had to walk 20 miles in the snow, with no shoes, just to get to school | 00:39 |
| Arif_ | good luck finding snow in .nl | 00:39 |
| Xisdibik | heh | 00:39 |
| Xisdibik | good luck finding snow in Berkeley California :P | 00:40 |
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| Xisdibik | theres snow here about once every 50 years | 00:40 |
| Arif_ | I walk 100m to the bus stop | 00:40 |
| Arif_ | that's far too :( | 00:40 |
| Xisdibik | I drive for about 1.5 miles to a subway station | 00:40 |
| Xisdibik | and then take the subway for 30-45 minutes to work | 00:40 |
| Arif_ | I take the bus for 45 minutes | 00:40 |
| Arif_ | then the metro for 10 minutes | 00:40 |
| Arif_ | to go to school ;( | 00:40 |
| Arif_ | damn uni :P | 00:41 |
| Arif_ | it should be closer! | 00:41 |
| v13 | pytowerdefense ??? | 00:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Arif_: Live in a toilet. | 00:41 |
| Xisdibik | to get to school i drive to the subway station, then take the subway for 1 hour, and then take a school shuttle for 15 minutes | 00:41 |
| Xisdibik | :) | 00:41 |
| v13 | ok.. that's a good one for n900 most probably :) | 00:41 |
| Arif_ | shuttle? | 00:41 |
| Xisdibik | like a bus, but it only stops at the subway station, and the school | 00:41 |
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| Arif_ | aw | 00:42 |
| v13 | (that one: http://www.pygame.org/project-PyTowerDefense-1332-.html) | 00:42 |
| Arif_ | I was imagining you flying around the moon | 00:42 |
| pupnik | i think we have a towerdefense clone, no v13 ? | 00:42 |
| v13 | ? | 00:42 |
| v13 | which is that ? | 00:42 |
| * v13 slow | 00:42 | |
| * Xisdibik fast | 00:42 | |
| Xisdibik | I would love to seen Bloons Tower Defense 1-4 ported to Maemo | 00:43 |
| Arif_ | I'd like to see all games ported | 00:43 |
| Arif_ | you can never have enough games | 00:43 |
| Xisdibik | i could do without Hello Kitty Island Adventure | 00:44 |
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| Arif_ | pff | 00:44 |
| Arif_ | hello kitty is cute :D | 00:44 |
| luke-jr | Arif_: I'll port Armagetron if you get me a N900 ;p | 00:44 |
| Xisdibik | I prefer Totoro | 00:44 |
| Xisdibik | luke-jr: u still dont have one yet? | 00:44 |
| luke-jr | Xisdibik: nope | 00:44 |
| Arif_ | luke-jr, it took me 2 months to get my own | 00:44 |
| Xisdibik | luke-jr: cant you second mortgage your soul to the devil for one? | 00:44 |
| pupnik | impressive number of pygame projects | 00:45 |
| luke-jr | Xisdibik: not worth it | 00:45 |
| nid0 | sure it is | 00:45 |
| Arif_ | at the end I gave up | 00:45 |
| Arif_ | and got one 2nd hand | 00:45 |
| Arif_ | :P | 00:45 |
| nid0 | took me about 2 months to get as well thanks to shitty o2 being shit :< | 00:45 |
| luke-jr | why get a device with 256 MB RAM when devices with 1 GB RAM are coming out? | 00:46 |
| pupnik | v13: i seem to recall a thread on t.m.o | 00:46 |
| luke-jr | especially when it's such a steep price | 00:46 |
| Arif_ | because they run javadroid? | 00:46 |
| luke-jr | Arif_: and? | 00:46 |
| Xisdibik | luke-jr: because i want you to port Armagetron to it so i can play | 00:46 |
| nid0 | I hear amount of ram === the only thing needed to make a good phone? | 00:46 |
| nid0 | owait. | 00:46 |
| Arif_ | they don't like streaming video :* | 00:46 |
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| luke-jr | Arif_: I would only tolerate Maemo to port Armagetron for you. after that, Maemo gets wiped | 00:46 |
| Arif_ | lol | 00:46 |
| matthew- | uh my n900 is kinda not usable w/o external headphones or smth | 00:46 |
| luke-jr | nid0: nope, but it's a big factor; also, I don't want a phone | 00:46 |
| matthew- | :( | 00:47 |
| matthew- | sad | 00:47 |
| nid0 | phone speaker dead? | 00:47 |
| Arif_ | matthew-, because the speakers suck? | 00:47 |
| luke-jr | matthew-: I hear Nokia fixes speakers w/ warranty | 00:47 |
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| luke-jr | nid0: in any case, RAM is basically the only good thing I see in N900 | 00:48 |
| javispedro | RAM? | 00:48 |
| javispedro | I was going to say that RAM is the worst part of it.. | 00:48 |
| luke-jr | javispedro: yeah, RAM | 00:48 |
| Arif_ | I don't need 1GB of RAM to stream TV shows =P | 00:49 |
| luke-jr | Arif_: and TV shows are useless | 00:49 |
| Arif_ | what I do need is a bigger screen | 00:49 |
| nid0 | hd2 is the phone to get then if you want screen size | 00:49 |
| luke-jr | Arif_: exactly my point | 00:49 |
| luke-jr | N900 screen < N900 RAM | 00:49 |
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| javispedro | well, that is true too :) | 00:49 |
| Arif_ | I don't want crashdows mobile | 00:49 |
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| luke-jr | nid0: I want at minimum 512 MB RAM, 4" screen, USABLE keyboard, etc | 00:49 |
| nid0 | dont fail at using it and winmo doesnt crash | 00:49 |
| luke-jr | Arif_: learn to port Linux | 00:50 |
| microlith | nid0: you shouldn't need to be careful with an OS for it to not crash | 00:50 |
| Arif_ | maybe I'll get a WP7 phone | 00:50 |
| Arif_ | when they port coreplayer | 00:50 |
| nid0 | and you dont need to be careful with winmo, you have to utterly fail at it | 00:50 |
| luke-jr | I hope Nexus Two is decent | 00:50 |
| Arif_ | coreplayer was so awesome ;( | 00:50 |
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| javispedro | it will still be capacitive and use android | 00:50 |
| luke-jr | javispedro: if it's actually free software for hw support, better than Maemo | 00:51 |
| microlith | fat chance of that | 00:51 |
| javispedro | oh, who knows. | 00:51 |
| nid0 | even my girlfriend's been able to use her hd2 for almost 3 months without so much as a blip from it, and shes the kind of person who technology just tends to break around | 00:51 |
| microlith | android has all the same hardware support issues maemo has | 00:51 |
| luke-jr | speaking of which, anyone ever confirm N1's actual software status? | 00:51 |
| luke-jr | microlith: Android in general, yes. Google's own phone... no? | 00:52 |
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| microlith | luke-jr: google isn't special, it's just an HTC phone with google's logo | 00:52 |
| javispedro | luke-jr: interesting topic nevertheless. if you ever create a report, please post it somewhere :) | 00:52 |
| luke-jr | microlith: but Google set the requirements | 00:52 |
| microlith | means nothing | 00:52 |
| microlith | they spec'd it | 00:52 |
| luke-jr | microlith: means quite a bit, from what I see. | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | microlith, +3 | 00:52 |
| microlith | they can't say "all the drivers will be open" and I suspect they don't care | 00:53 |
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| luke-jr | Google required users to be able to root it with a documented method | 00:53 |
| microlith | for the N1, yes | 00:53 |
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| microlith | but that doesn't mean -anything- with respect to drivers | 00:53 |
| Arif_ | are there any external media players for android? | 00:53 |
| Xisdibik | heya GeneralAntilles | 00:53 |
| Arif_ | -external +3rd party | 00:54 |
| Xisdibik | how goes things? | 00:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Xisdibik, having a nice glass of Cabernet Sauvignon and playing Forza 3. | 00:55 |
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| Arkenoi | No need to port Tower Defence if we were able to get flash mouse events working properly | 00:56 |
| javispedro | hah. | 00:57 |
| Arif_ | nah | 00:57 |
| Arif_ | flash is too batteryeatingish | 00:58 |
| lardman | night all | 00:58 |
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| pupnik | agree with Arif_ | 01:00 |
| SpeedEvil | The people doing gnash should see if they can get energy efficiency grants. | 01:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Cutting flash power use by half has to be worth several powerstations | 01:01 |
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| Vanadis__ | how do i manually execute the media player database update | 01:03 |
| Vanadis__ | ? | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | guillotine. | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Or firing squad. | 01:03 |
| Vanadis__ | -.- | 01:03 |
| Corsac | mpf | 01:04 |
| xorAxAx | how do i turn on the mouse pointer? | 01:04 |
| xorAxAx | i need it for x2x | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | killing and restarting the tracker daemon should do it - but it has a watchdog - so it will reboot youre device | 01:04 |
| Corsac | ca certificates list is weird | 01:04 |
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| javispedro | Vanadis__: tracker-processes -r then start media player. | 01:04 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp2: do you know where the ca list comes from? (is it the standard nss list, for example?) | 01:04 |
| Vanadis__ | kthx | 01:04 |
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| Corsac | seems that the list isn't up to date | 01:07 |
| n00bmonk3y | hmmm anyone a pyqt person? :D - i R Need help! | 01:07 |
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| v13 | bb | 01:10 |
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| Xisdibik | GeneralAntilles: sounds like your having fun, im leaving work 15 minutes early (cuz its mah birthday), and going home to dishes and homework :/ | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Xisdibik: Have fun! | 01:15 |
| Xisdibik | SpeedEvil: thanks :D | 01:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Xisdibik: Put some good tunes on, and wash to the beat. | 01:16 |
| Xisdibik | heh | 01:16 |
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| Xisdibik | yea | 01:16 |
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| Arif_ | anyone know if you can hide icons from the menu? | 01:16 |
| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:16 |
| burchr | GeneralAntilles: oh dear.. :P | 01:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | burchr, hmm? | 01:17 |
| burchr | GeneralAntilles: just saw the ML thread | 01:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | burchr, yeah, fun. | 01:17 |
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| * n00bmonk3y grumbles...... Grrrrr PyQt Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr | 01:20 | |
| w00t | n00bmonk3y: what's up? | 01:20 |
| n00bmonk3y | pyqt smells of poo....... want the detail? lol | 01:20 |
| n00bmonk3y | all i want is a message box.... (with no buttons)... just like hildon note, but they dont seem to exist in simple ways in qt :( | 01:21 |
| n00bmonk3y | so it pops up, whilst loading then goes....... | 01:21 |
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| n00bmonk3y | or pops up for a second after loading and sys loaded for a second | 01:21 |
| n00bmonk3y | i dont see the point in forcing someone to press when i just want to let them know it is done... | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | make one massive button | 01:22 |
| n00bmonk3y | lol ;) | 01:22 |
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| n00bmonk3y | would work better then nothing :) | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | and pop it down after 1s anyway | 01:22 |
| acidjazz | when do the nokia nazi zeppelins come across the lands sending out zaps bricking our n900's forcing us to purchase x86 intel n1000's | 01:22 |
| n00bmonk3y | just bugs me, hildon and gtk have answers... qt doesnt and thats the 1 we are getting stuck with :( | 01:23 |
| n00bmonk3y | ok, tis also the one i started learning, so self inflicted | 01:23 |
| * n00bmonk3y slaps lcuck | 01:23 | |
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| * n00bmonk3y slaps lcuk, after spelling it correctly | 01:24 | |
| wiretapped | acidjazz: last thursday | 01:24 |
| Vanadis__ | good night everyone | 01:24 |
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| w00t | you probably want a QMaemo5InformationBox | 01:24 |
| * n00bmonk3y raises an eyebrow | 01:24 | |
| w00t | but I don't think PyQt will wrap that yet, as it's a Maemo specific class, and Qt 4.6+ only | 01:24 |
| n00bmonk3y | hmmm so wont work? | 01:25 |
| n00bmonk3y | i mean, now in my normall app :( | 01:25 |
| w00t | PySide will probably wrap it, but PySide isn't as mature as PyQt. I don't know if PyQt plan to wrap stuff like that - you'd need to ask them. | 01:25 |
| w00t | http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qt-maemo-4.6/qmaemo5informationbox.html | 01:25 |
| n00bmonk3y | ooo but looking at it, yes!!! | 01:25 |
| n00bmonk3y | i want i want! | 01:25 |
| n00bmonk3y | cheers woot :( - looks perfect, but still no answer for the now :( | 01:26 |
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| w00t | no, but you know who to ask :) | 01:26 |
| * w00t wanders off to bed, as it's late | 01:26 | |
| n00bmonk3y | hehe :) | 01:26 |
| n00bmonk3y | true i think | 01:26 |
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| n00bmonk3y | do i? | 01:26 |
| n00bmonk3y | lol nite! | 01:26 |
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| n00bmonk3y | anyway where is qwery and lcuk | 01:27 |
| n00bmonk3y | qwerty* | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12's disappeared. | 01:27 |
| SpeedEvil | he's gone for the operation. | 01:27 |
| SpeedEvil | He's gonna be azerty when he gets back. | 01:27 |
| arachnist | eww. he could at least end up as dvorak | 01:28 |
| * arachnist knows how to type on dvorak) | 01:28 | |
| n00bmonk3y | lols | 01:28 |
| arachnist | :> | 01:28 |
| n00bmonk3y | i still need to learn how to type lol | 01:28 |
| zash | arachnist: :D | 01:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I have given up learning to properly type. | 01:28 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm at the stage wherre I can go 40wpm under the covers, which is fine for me. | 01:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | I want another keyboard though - with a trackpoint. | 01:29 |
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| pupnik | SpeedEvil: im still lovin my spacesaver II | 01:31 |
| SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IBM-ENHANCED-KEYBOARD-WITH-TRACKPOINT-II-92G7461_W0QQitemZ290292972127QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item4396cf3a5f would be my ideal keyboard. | 01:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/ | 01:32 |
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| n00bmonk3y | hmmmm assuming you cant use pyside and pyqt at the same time? | 01:34 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: won't ship to me. Also the usb one has stupid extra keys. | 01:34 |
| n00bmonk3y | so this makes me more annoyed, hildon, gtk and pyside have an answer, and effing pyqt cant do it.... | 01:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil, ah, too bad. | 01:36 |
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| kinetik | is it possible to change (or append to) the kernel boot command line on the n900? | 01:39 |
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| pupnik | >the guruguru board will be sweet | 01:40 |
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| pupnik | good q kinetik | 01:40 |
| kinetik | alternatively, knowing safe start/end memory addresses for the cmemk kernel module with the default kernel would be awesome | 01:42 |
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| kinetik | or a way to pass a bc-cat allocated buffer to the dsp for writing so that the machine doesn't crash :-) | 01:43 |
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| kinetik | would i be better asking in #maemo-devel? | 01:44 |
| derf | I would ask felipec, but it doesn't look like he's here now. | 01:44 |
| kinetik | good idea | 01:45 |
| derf | It _is_ after midnight in Finland. | 01:45 |
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| Lumpio- | Isn't that when people are most active? | 01:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Does he turn into a pumpkin after midnight? | 01:47 |
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| mmarc__ | hello, guys, I've modified /etc/sudoers badly, and now root mode is unavailable due to corrupted sudoers file. Could you please help to recover? What is update-sudeors? Seems like I have not got it... | 02:26 |
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| arachnist | mmarc__: install openssh server | 02:30 |
| mmarc__ | I've got it | 02:30 |
| arachnist | mmarc__: it should permit root logins and ask you for a root password when installing | 02:30 |
| Arkenoi | unpacking easydebian image takes more that 3 hours :-/ | 02:31 |
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| mmarc__ | how could I install anything if app manager won't work with corrupted sudoers? | 02:32 |
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| mmarc__ | typing root in ssh session returns | 02:32 |
| mmarc__ | >>> sudoers file: syntax error, line 75 <<< | 02:32 |
| mmarc__ | sudo: parse error in /etc/sudoers near line 75 | 02:32 |
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| mmarc__ | arachnist: sorry, unclear, could you please explain | 02:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | mmarc__: In the absence of anyuone with better ideas - if you can't become root - you can't fix it. | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | You're gonna need to flash. | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | At least if you can't install stuff too | 02:35 |
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| mmarc__ | and what is update-sudoers? | 02:36 |
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| Flandry | greetings maemoans | 02:36 |
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| mmarc__ | I also have opened Xterminal on N900, but I cannot type to it due to some reason, probably, after vimming | 02:41 |
| mmarc__ | *I also have opened ROOT Xterminal on N900, but I cannot type to it due to some reason, probably, after vimming | 02:41 |
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| mmarc__ | any guide or howto for refalsh?? | 02:48 |
| mmarc__ | found | 02:49 |
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| mmarc__ | another question: any chance to access apt-like repository for maemo? Everything I've succeeded with is installable only through app manager gui. | 02:57 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: Maemo runs apt. | 02:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | mmarc__, the application manager is just an apt front-end. . . . | 02:57 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: That thing just... | 02:57 |
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| mgregsond | mmarc__: nvm, he beat me to it. | 02:57 |
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| mmarc__ | That's not so for me, I can't install anything with apt-get, it cannot find packages... | 02:59 |
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| cehteh | be careful with manual apt ... it easily fills up your root partition | 03:00 |
| mmarc__ | Is anybody maintaining custom repos? | 03:00 |
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| cehteh | some do | 03:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | mmarc__, Extras provides you with just about everything you need. | 03:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | apt-get works just fine here. | 03:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | The packages you're looking for simply may not exist. | 03:01 |
| mmarc__ | how, for example, with midnight commander? Can't find it. | 03:01 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: Huh? apt-cache search | 03:01 |
| mmarc__ | also I tried apt-get install dosbox, that was not found, but it definitely exist | 03:02 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: What package are you trying to install? | 03:02 |
| mmarc__ | dosbox, foe example | 03:02 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: Ok, have you enabled the repository that dosbox is in? | 03:02 |
| mmarc__ | Ugh, probably not, it's unclear how it operates repositories... | 03:04 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: It's apt. | 03:04 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: It operates repositories in the usual apt manner. | 03:04 |
| mmarc__ | okay, I'll try again after reflash, thanks! | 03:04 |
| cehteh | well .. with some fairy dust .. by nokia | 03:04 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Okay, there's extra cruft, but the core is apt. It just does magic to make pretty pictures. | 03:05 |
| mmarc__ | another thing to ask is what's the propetiary crap are we forced instead of openoffice? | 03:05 |
| mmarc__ | Docs2go or something like that | 03:05 |
| cehteh | and not to fill up the rootfs .. and being able to distributed payware | 03:05 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: Openoffice is MASSIVE. | 03:05 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Oh? It can handle payware? | 03:05 |
| lcuk | am i the only person scared to even breath on a device being flashed? | 03:06 |
| mmarc__ | so, what? | 03:06 |
| cehteh | ovi store? | 03:06 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: How? How do they stop you from just cp the .deb? | 03:06 |
| cehteh | dunno how it works | 03:06 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Ok, but dpkg could handle downloadable binaries. | 03:06 |
| * lcuk has done it from day 1 of flashing pc bios | 03:06 | |
| cehteh | mgregsond: maybe https and client certs .. i dont know | 03:06 |
| mgregsond | lcuk: I'm terrified of touching anything. I like to leave the room. Wont even play loud music. ;) | 03:06 |
| lcuk | :D | 03:06 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Interesting. | 03:06 |
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| mgregsond | cehteh: I'll have to track down proper info on this. | 03:07 |
| cehteh | try to install something from ovi store and figure out .. i have no idea how thats implemented | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, the danger period for flashing is fractions of a second long. | 03:07 |
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| mmarc__ | okay, except openoffice, there is abiword, for example. But why this 2Go crap? | 03:07 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Ovistore just looked lame... | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | NOLO is about 8KB last item I checked | 03:07 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, dont say danger period lol | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Flashing goes at about 5-8MB/sec | 03:07 |
| lcuk | its just flashing in general | 03:08 |
| lcuk | i stop everything im doing on all machines for a few moments | 03:08 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: I haven't used it, so I don't know how well it actually works. | 03:08 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: There is nothing stopping you from porting/building an armel package for abiword... | 03:08 |
| lcuk | there has been nothing stopping many from doing same, afaik qole had it running nicely inside his chroot, whether the extra effort to get it direct in maemo is worth it is another matter (i might be wrong about actual word processor) | 03:09 |
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| cehteh | hey texlive is packaged and emacs too (externally).. i doubt thats smaller then openoffice :) | 03:10 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Seriously? | 03:10 |
| lcuk | im thinking mainly about ui changes required | 03:10 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: OpenOffice is enormous. | 03:10 |
| cehteh | texlive is massive | 03:10 |
| cehteh | (when you install all bells and whistles) | 03:11 |
| uhsf | Pelikon's MorphPad is what the N900 keyboard should've been. | 03:11 |
| lcuk | uhsf, that morphpad is neat :) extremely innovative use of masking | 03:12 |
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| cehteh | anyone here likes packaging for maemo? ... i think i hack a notification light blinker on battery low later but i dont have interest in packaging it | 03:13 |
| cehteh | abi word is packaged too btw .. never used it | 03:13 |
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| cehteh | After this operation, 123MB of additional disk space will be used. | 03:15 |
| cehteh | EgS: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/. | 03:15 |
| cehteh | ... texlive | 03:15 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: That pissed me off when archives ran out of space. | 03:16 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: I don't mind packaging your shit up if you've got everything else done. | 03:16 |
| cehteh | thats what the app updater cares for .. using some other temp dir | 03:17 |
| Arkenoi | 2go "crap" is way faster and works with non-native document formats way better | 03:17 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Actually... the app updater ran out of space. | 03:17 |
| cehteh | heh | 03:17 |
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| mgregsond | cehteh: I had to work around it by updating from the command line and forcing it to cache in MyDocs. | 03:17 |
| cehteh | well the partitioning .. or rather mounts are fuba | 03:18 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Totally. | 03:18 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: It feels like the disk layout and partitioning schemes were designed by an untrained ape on cocaine. | 03:18 |
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| cehteh | i saied that serveral times :P | 03:19 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Do you by any chance know what package provides the messaging stack? | 03:20 |
| cehteh | messaging stack? | 03:20 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: dbus/telepathy/empathy/... | 03:20 |
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| cehteh | no | 03:21 |
| mmarc__ | any other good console client available? | 03:21 |
| mgregsond | Ah, I'll look it up later.. | 03:21 |
| cehteh | maybe all in 'mamemo5' | 03:21 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: huh? | 03:21 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: This is a virtual for many others yes? | 03:21 |
| mmarc__ | instead of Xterminal | 03:21 |
| cehteh | dunno | 03:21 |
| cehteh | mmarc__: not that i know, why? | 03:21 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: Have you considered purchasing an actual computer? | 03:21 |
| cehteh | ssh :) | 03:22 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: That's my favourite. | 03:22 |
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| cehteh | well and the osso-xterm is ok when you have to work on the device .. whats the problem | 03:22 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: Again, it's running X, you could probably get gnome-terminal running if you want. | 03:22 |
| mmarc__ | cmon, guys, I justwant black background, I won't be blind before 50 years old watching white windows all the time! | 03:23 |
| cehteh | someone once wanted to package rxvt-unicode | 03:23 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Epic. Any idea how big it wound up being? | 03:23 |
| cehteh | but i think any non hildonized terminal would be worse than the osso-xterm | 03:23 |
| cehteh | dunno | 03:23 |
| Arkenoi | unpacking easydebian image - almost 4 hours and still working | 03:23 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: Hmm, interesting proposal. | 03:24 |
| cehteh | mmarc__: that can be configured | 03:24 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: In osso-xterm? | 03:24 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: How? | 03:24 |
| mmarc__ | where? | 03:25 |
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| cehteh | font config | 03:25 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Ah, one is bg one is fg? | 03:25 |
| cehteh | .. | 03:25 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: They show up as unlabeled grey squares for me. | 03:26 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Totally not clear what they do. | 03:26 |
| cehteh | oh come one | 03:26 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: I didn't test them out. ;) | 03:26 |
| mmarc__ | for me too | 03:26 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: Ok, so the left one is the fg, the right one is the bg. | 03:27 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: Unless I've forgotten the outcome of my experiment and it's the other way around. ;) | 03:27 |
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| mmarc__ | hey! It works! Cehteh, thanks, you know, what is behing that gray squares! | 03:28 |
| mmarc__ | hm, I need a maemo happiness desktop applet | 03:29 |
| mmarc__ | my eyes are saying thanks | 03:29 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: lol, alright fine, I should have tried them | 03:29 |
| mgregsond | cehteh: Still, UI fail for not making things immediately clear. | 03:29 |
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| mmarc__ | also I have two technical questions | 03:38 |
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| mmarc__ | 1) is N900's ARM multicore? | 03:38 |
| mmarc__ | 2) what maemo apps benefit from dsp circuit? | 03:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Video playback | 03:39 |
| mmarc__ | propiteary? | 03:39 |
| mmarc__ | propietry? | 03:39 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: I doubt that the processor is multicore. | 03:40 |
| cehteh | for some definition of multicore .. dunno if the other cores are arm .. its not SMP there is only one main core | 03:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, there are several cores on the SoC | 03:40 |
| cehteh | the dsp, gpu are some cores and the broadband chipset itself is prolly 2-3 cores | 03:41 |
| mmarc__ | i.e. is this video playback source closed | 03:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Cellular is not on the OMAP, however. | 03:41 |
| cehteh | all are not available for direct programming, DSP to some extent iirc | 03:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | mmarc__, which part? | 03:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | mmarc__, the backend is MAFW | 03:41 |
| mmarc__ | dsp part | 03:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which plugs into GStreamer | 03:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno if the DSP codec is open | 03:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Depends on which video codec we're talking about, probably. | 03:42 |
| mmarc__ | okay, anything else except video uses dsp? | 03:42 |
| cehteh | mplayer doesnt use the dsp for example | 03:42 |
| mmarc__ | well, reasonable | 03:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's some various 3rd-party stuff | 03:42 |
| cehteh | the camera and some voice codecs for speech/telephony afaik | 03:42 |
| mmarc__ | skype maybe? | 03:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Camera has its own core. | 03:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | ISP | 03:43 |
| cehteh | really .. ok ... one core more | 03:43 |
| cehteh | mmarc__: generally speakin you can only access and programm on the main cpu | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | cehteh, http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=14649&navigationId=12643&templateId=6123 | 03:44 |
| Arkenoi | i still miss "phone-as-separate-hardware-thing" approach from old communicators | 03:44 |
| cehteh | Arkenoi: it is | 03:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Cellular chipset isn't in the OMAP. | 03:44 |
| cehteh | well and hosts the GPS | 03:44 |
| Arkenoi | well, we need a responsive UI to answer a call | 03:45 |
| cehteh | ah ok | 03:45 |
| Arkenoi | and it is not always possible while cpu is heavy loaded | 03:45 |
| mgregsond | Arkenoi: That needs to be fixed yes. | 03:45 |
| cehteh | yes all its io goes through the main os | 03:45 |
| mgregsond | Some of the apps or daemons generate high load. | 03:45 |
| cehteh | but actually i like it this way more .. i have already bad feeling about the gps in the broadband chipset | 03:45 |
| mgregsond | I've seen pulse spike up pretty badly. | 03:45 |
| sar3th | a propos pulse | 03:46 |
| sar3th | is it possible to configure pulse so that the left channel of the output is louder than the right one (for the headset) | 03:46 |
| sar3th | because my headset is borked, and i don't want to send it in yet ;) | 03:46 |
| cehteh | lol | 03:47 |
| cehteh | sure your ears arent borked? | 03:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | cehteh, GPS isn't is the cellular chipset is it? | 03:47 |
| cehteh | well it should be possible .. somewhere in the settings in /etc | 03:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Cellular is Nokia, GPS is TI. . . . | 03:47 |
| sar3th | cehteh: yes | 03:47 |
| sar3th | to ensure, i switched the things you put in ear | 03:47 |
| sar3th | how do you call them >_> | 03:48 |
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| sar3th | well anyway, it's NOT just in my mind :P | 03:48 |
| cehteh | huh nokia makes its own chipsets? i thought thats ti too .. but i am quite sure that the gps is attached there .. dunno if that are just io connections to some rather dumb gps or its integrated in the chisept | 03:48 |
| cehteh | but it is not accessible directly from the main core | 03:49 |
| SpeedEvil | /*-----------------------------------------------------------------//////////////////////////////////////////////////////// | 03:49 |
| SpeedEvil | - | 03:49 |
| sar3th | SpeedEvil: /flushq | 03:50 |
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| mmarc__ | http://maemos.ru/2010/01/19/abiword-na-n900-word-dlya-maemo-os/ | 03:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, Nokia makes its own chipsets. ;) | 03:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's the piece of hardware Nokia is bringing to the MeeGo party. | 03:52 |
| sar3th | how about pulse audio help? | 03:52 |
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| * Arkenoi wishes there will be full dtg someday. | 03:52 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Kernel sources point to a WiLink 6.0 or 7.0 solution for N900+1. | 03:52 |
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| mgregsond | GeneralAntilles: What's the plan for the MeeGo thing anyways? | 03:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgregsond, hell if I know. ;) | 03:53 |
| mgregsond | GeneralAntilles: One OS to suck on all platforms? ;) | 03:54 |
| * Xisdibik points at GeneralAntilles's horns. Yes... Hell... you do know! | 03:54 | |
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| mmarc__ | hey, why Maemo Extra reports Unable to find expected entry user/binary-armel/ ... malformed release file | 03:57 |
| mmarc__ | ? | 03:57 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: What's the URL you fed in? | 03:58 |
| mmarc__ | http://repository.maemo.org/extrasemI | 03:58 |
| mmarc__ | http://repository.maemo.org/extras | 03:58 |
| mgregsond | mmarc__: And the other settings? | 03:59 |
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| Arkenoi | what is the size of the unpacked debian-m5-v3b.img.ext2 ? could anyone check please? i'd like to know how much is left.. | 03:59 |
| mmarc__ | oh, the components field was incorrect, my bad | 04:00 |
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| Pillum | i hate it when games are just designed for the us keyboard layout | 04:03 |
| javispedro | ... and they don't have configurable bindings. | 04:04 |
| Pillum | yeah! | 04:04 |
| sar3th | yeah! | 04:05 |
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| Pillum | mmhhhh......I ♥ peanut butter | 04:06 |
| Pillum | its so delicious | 04:06 |
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| orbarron | hello all: I just downloaded osso-applet-screencalibration-l10n-zhhk --> is there a way to run this? and where is it installed? | 04:17 |
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| cehteh | orbarron: normally thats part of the settings .. that package above is only some localization for ot | 04:17 |
| cehteh | it | 04:17 |
| orbarron | so I am missing for setting apps... | 04:18 |
| * orbarron has one off environment | 04:18 | |
| orbarron | is there a way to get the calibration app? | 04:18 |
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| cehteh | eh? | 04:19 |
| orbarron | cehteh: my environment does not have this calibration tool in settings. even if it did I am not sure I can access is since my touch is way off | 04:19 |
| mgregsond | orbarron: Have you restarted the app in question to get it to use the new settings? | 04:20 |
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| cehteh | orbarron: it should be on a stock device .. makes me wonder if its not there | 04:20 |
| * orbarron believes it should have it... but for some reason it is missing | 04:21 | |
| * orbarron so wondering if it is possible to just get this app. | 04:21 | |
| microlith | the calibration tool is under the settings app | 04:22 |
| * orbarron wonder if settings app is available? | 04:22 | |
| uhsf | it's cool that nokia ovi music store is drm-free. one more + for me to appreciate my n900. now if they could sell .ogg and .flac i could even buy music online one day, who knows | 04:24 |
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| orbarron | how about this one: hildon-im-plugin-base-settings | 04:25 |
| cehteh | there is a music store? | 04:25 |
| mmarc_ | After I set up user and root passwords, app manager now shows empty repos list, reporting in log the apt worker has exited. What might be the issue? | 04:25 |
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| sar3th | uhsf: i agree about the flac part :D | 04:26 |
| sar3th | and if the flac support was fixed, it'd be awesome, too | 04:27 |
| mmarc_ | Oh, and niw it is ok, strange... | 04:27 |
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| KEROLiUKAS | http://pastehtml.com/view/5tk78lb.html is this page down or just me? | 04:44 |
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| sar3th | have the advanced music format support packages STILL not been fixed? D: | 04:51 |
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| trip0 | anyone know if video chat works with skype on the\n900? | 05:16 |
| microlith | I think that's scheduled for the next big update | 05:17 |
| trip0 | awesome | 05:18 |
| luke-jr | Skype should be banned from the internet :P | 05:26 |
| Xisdibik | luke-jr: nevar | 05:29 |
| luke-jr | Xisdibik: Skype sucks | 05:29 |
| Xisdibik | luke-jr: not for me | 05:29 |
| luke-jr | I meant objectively ;P | 05:29 |
| Xisdibik | ;P | 05:29 |
| Xisdibik | without skype my mom and nephew wouldnt be able to webchat | 05:29 |
| luke-jr | why not? | 05:30 |
| Xisdibik | because my mom and my sister are totally not tech savvy enough to use something else? | 05:30 |
| luke-jr | why do you need to use Skype if you're not tech savvy? | 05:30 |
| Xisdibik | because its just a simple install thats very simple to use | 05:30 |
| Xisdibik | its also handy that you can call real telephones if need be | 05:31 |
| luke-jr | and they're too stupid to use Gizmo or Google Talk? | 05:33 |
| luke-jr | or any of the many other simple standards-compliant clients? | 05:33 |
| Xisdibik | Google Talk requires a gmail account | 05:34 |
| Xisdibik | which my mom and sister dont have | 05:34 |
| luke-jr | but can easily get | 05:35 |
| Xisdibik | Gizmo they dont know anything about | 05:35 |
| Xisdibik | also | 05:35 |
| luke-jr | same went for Skype before they learned about it | 05:35 |
| GAN900 | Gizmo > Skype | 05:35 |
| Xisdibik | I personally feel skype's sound and video quality are good (given a good connection) | 05:35 |
| Xisdibik | I personally havnt used Gizmo, so i cant agree or disagree | 05:36 |
| Xisdibik | but given that i have about 180 people on my skype list | 05:36 |
| GAN900 | It's Skype, but with open codecs. :P | 05:36 |
| Xisdibik | i cant give it up :p | 05:36 |
| Xisdibik | I'm the type of person that filled up their AIM account back when it had limits | 05:36 |
| zerojay | GAN900: As someone that's used both for years, Skype sounds *MUCH* better than Gizmo and has less latency. | 05:39 |
| zerojay | That said, I hate using it. | 05:39 |
| GAN900 | zerojay, at the cost of your Freedom. *eg* | 05:39 |
| Xisdibik | Skype in linux has alot of issues though | 05:39 |
| Xisdibik | so if your comparing skype linux to gizmo that could be why | 05:40 |
| Xisdibik | alot of my skyping is from the windows version | 05:40 |
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| cehteh | you are here already | 06:14 |
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| kimitake | Hi | 07:41 |
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| Venomrush | hi | 07:43 |
| kimitake | I have a question for Bugtracker location | 07:43 |
| kimitake | I just added XSBC-Bugtracker: to debian/control file and uploaded the package to auto builder | 07:44 |
| kimitake | pkg was built correctly but maemo.org/packages page still shows "Warning: This package does not have the required bugtracker link specified!" | 07:45 |
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| kimitake | OK, I found the solution. | 08:01 |
| kimitake | need to locate it after Standards-Version: (before Package: ) | 08:02 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | Corsac: it's supposed to be the NSS list, however ownership is stolen by another group inside nokia, it's possible they doctor the list | 08:11 |
| RST38h | Oh noooo, another media framework | 08:13 |
| * RST38h can't stop facepalming lately | 08:14 | |
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| Corsac | timeless_mbp2: mhh, ok | 08:49 |
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| Stskeeps | morning | 09:04 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: ping | 09:08 |
| aspidites | Stskeeps: pong? | 09:08 |
| Stskeeps | you're not DS :P | 09:08 |
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| Corsac | timeless_mbp2: any idea where they are kept? | 09:09 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | they're kept by 'maemosec-certman' | 09:10 |
| Corsac | hmhm, there are multiple cert8.db >< | 09:11 |
| timeless_mbp2 | they aren't kept by gecko | 09:12 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | they're maintained by maemosec-certman | 09:12 |
| timeless_mbp2 | at least, in general | 09:12 |
| Corsac | in .mozilla/{fennec,rtcom,nokia-maps,microb}, in .modest and .osso | 09:13 |
| timeless_mbp2 | osso/tutorial presumably | 09:13 |
| timeless_mbp2 | fennec is a gecko; nokia-maps, microb, tutorial are microb consumers | 09:14 |
| Corsac | except the microb and fennec ones, they are identical | 09:14 |
| Corsac | so I guess maemosec-certman copies them there | 09:14 |
| timeless_mbp2 | err | 09:14 |
| timeless_mbp2 | that's not how it's supposed to work | 09:15 |
| Corsac | oh? | 09:15 |
| Corsac | (I mean, when they are modified) | 09:15 |
| timeless_mbp2 | iirc cert8 is basically your private add certs | 09:15 |
| Corsac | ha yes maybe | 09:15 |
| timeless_mbp2 | presumably you haven't added any to fennec | 09:15 |
| timeless_mbp2 | so you're comparing a pair of empties | 09:15 |
| Corsac | how is called the CA file then? | 09:15 |
| timeless_mbp2 | as i said, it's not stored in microb, it's managed by maemosec-certman | 09:16 |
| timeless_mbp2 | and if you don't pay attention, i will slap you silly | 09:16 |
| timeless_mbp2 | rtcom and modest use nss directly | 09:16 |
| Corsac | yeah but nss uses a cache anyway | 09:16 |
| * tybollt hides :( | 09:17 | |
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| Corsac | and it seems to use a different cache for every apps | 09:17 |
| Corsac | (like in the desktop though) | 09:17 |
| timeless_mbp2 | not a cache... | 09:17 |
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| Corsac | well, a private copy | 09:18 |
| Corsac | since the original one comes directly from nss sources, afair | 09:18 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | well, err, that's totally not how it works | 09:18 |
| timeless_mbp2 | but you're free to think about it wrongly if you like :) | 09:18 |
| Corsac | I'm kind-of asking you how it works :) | 09:18 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | nss sources include sources for a library that provides certificates | 09:19 |
| timeless_mbp2 | your app can choose not to ship that library | 09:19 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | or you can replace it later | 09:19 |
| timeless_mbp2 | but as it's a library, it's readonly | 09:19 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | so other changes are stored elsewhere | 09:19 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | microb doesn't ship that library | 09:19 |
| timeless_mbp2 | instead it talks to maemosec-certman | 09:19 |
| timeless_mbp2 | which means you should *stop* asking me | 09:19 |
| timeless_mbp2 | and start asking *it* | 09:19 |
| timeless_mbp2 | is that unclear? | 09:20 |
| timeless_mbp2 | i'm only responsible for gecko/upstream | 09:20 |
| * tybollt hiding under desk now... :-( | 09:20 | |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp2: ok, thanks | 09:20 |
| * Corsac looks at tybollt | 09:20 | |
| timeless_mbp2 | maemosec-certman is not an upstream component, which should be fairly obvious... | 09:20 |
| Corsac | maemosec-certman-common-ca looks like a good candidate | 09:21 |
| timeless_mbp2 | that's roughly the nss database repackaged :) | 09:21 |
| timeless_mbp2 | plus whatever totally unapproved changes they may have made :/ | 09:21 |
| timeless_mbp2 | btw, what are you actually trying to do? | 09:21 |
| timeless_mbp2 | certificates are managed in the control panel | 09:22 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp2: get the original list of CA so I can open a bug asking for inclusion of the missing one(s) | 09:22 |
| Corsac | timeless_mbp2: I noticed some CA (which are in nss) weren't in certman | 09:22 |
| Corsac | so I had to add them | 09:22 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | ah | 09:24 |
| timeless_mbp2 | well, don't really do that | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp2 | just find the latest bug in bmo that updated the nss database | 09:25 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | and file a bug in bugs.maemo asking them to update to match *that* update | 09:25 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | why should you have to do the homework? | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp2 | the database was imported many months ago, and like most things is almost certainly not maintained | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp2 | anyway, the guy who owns maemosec-certman actually is responsive in bugs.maemo | 09:27 |
| timeless_mbp2 | he's not a bad guy, he just has a sucky job | 09:27 |
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| Corsac | timeless_mbp2: seems that there are independant bugs in b.moz.o for each CA inclusion, so it might just be best to just ask for a sync to the latest version | 09:31 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | isn't that what i said? | 09:32 |
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| Corsac | well, you said to look for a bug in bmo, which won't exist | 09:33 |
| timeless_mbp2 | bmo=bugzilla.mozilla.org | 09:33 |
| timeless_mbp2 | since the file is atomic for a branch, and there are bugs which control all changes to the vcs | 09:33 |
| timeless_mbp2 | there will be one bug which was the last bug to trigger an update to that file | 09:34 |
| timeless_mbp2 | probably the best thing about maemo=>meego is that bmo will be less ambiguous, because bugs.maemo will become bmc :) | 09:34 |
| Corsac | :) | 09:35 |
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| Corsac | grmbl, there's no maemosec product? | 09:40 |
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| pupnik_ | "OMweather requires reboot" what kind of evil crap is that? | 09:56 |
| tybollt | heh yeah I raised an eyebrow about that as well | 09:59 |
| swc|666 | evilness | 09:59 |
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| swc|666 | "Please reboot to complete rootkit initialization" is the one that got me concerned | 10:00 |
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| tybollt | swc|666: ;) | 10:00 |
| swc|666 | :p | 10:00 |
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| swc|666 | imean srsly.. who really does code audits / QA for devel/testing type apps u know ;) | 10:01 |
| swc|666 | especially for the poor fools on xda-devs | 10:01 |
| tybollt | but seriously now, of course a weather application needs a kernel module to raise privs and to accept incoming connections on low ports and to delete random fileson your FS etc | 10:01 |
| timeless_mbp2 | swc|666: isn't that your job? :) | 10:01 |
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| swc|666 | </rant> ;) | 10:02 |
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| lucent | swc|666: oh the OMWeather messages ? | 10:02 |
| lucent | that struck me as totally freaky weird. | 10:02 |
| lucent | it even comes up with a "You Must Check This Box to Agree" | 10:02 |
| swc|666 | lucent, nono, i was just extrapolating mindlessly on the OMWeather issue | 10:02 |
| lucent | oh yeah | 10:03 |
| swc|666 | in that ballpark* | 10:03 |
| lucent | I'm serious about my experience though, it asked me to confirm that I would swear on a bible to reboot after install | 10:03 |
| lucent | something like this | 10:03 |
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| lucent | what could it possibly need that requires a reboot? | 10:03 |
| swc|666 | point being most if not 99.9% of smartphone users really don't take into consideration malware | 10:03 |
| tybollt | shrug | 10:03 |
| tybollt | the installer has the "Yeah, right." box for agreeing to install stuff... that's so utterly... ugh blasphemy :) | 10:04 |
| swc|666 | heh | 10:05 |
| swc|666 | and (i'm lazy) who wrote OMWeather btw? | 10:05 |
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| tybollt | "wrote"? it is updated like each and every day | 10:05 |
| swc|666 | heh | 10:06 |
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| pupnik_ | timeless_mbp2: is there a microb hack or config to open a link in a background window (not taking focus)? That way i could keep reading while the new thing loads... | 10:23 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | pupnik_: afaiu the window manager sucks | 10:24 |
| swc|666 | +1 | 10:25 |
| timeless_mbp2 | i've recently triggered similar issues from a number of other apps | 10:25 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | so at this point, i'm going to say that even if we bothered to try, the window manager would thwart us | 10:25 |
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| pupnik_ | gotcha, thanks | 10:25 |
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| * timeless_mbp2 tries to turn on an n900 | 10:26 | |
| * swc|666 tries to buy an n1000 | 10:26 | |
| timeless_mbp2 | pupnik_: anyway, the public bug says that there's progress on something | 10:26 |
| pupnik_ | most annoying in that department is app manager stealing focus from xterm / irssi after "application successfully installed". i would prefer to only be notified if application was NOT successfully installed. | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp2 | that's nothing :) | 10:27 |
| jaska | t1000 | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp2 | try using app manager's restore applications feature | 10:27 |
| tybollt | I don't agree w/ tat | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp2 | it bothers me many many many times | 10:27 |
| timeless_mbp2 | i can't go out for coffee | 10:27 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: it ha one? | 10:28 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | tybollt: open backup, create a backup, only check 'application list' or whatever | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp2 | then restore that backup | 10:28 |
| tybollt | ah ok | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp2 | then open application manager | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp2 | there's an extra menu for it | 10:28 |
| timeless_mbp2 | s/menu/menu item/ | 10:28 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp2 meant: there's an extra menu item for it | 10:28 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | couldn't retrieve ip address from network. wep key may be wrong. select network? | 10:29 |
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| tybollt | 'may'? | 10:30 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | tybollt: well, i don't think i'm using 'wep' | 10:30 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | so "that message may be totally confused" | 10:30 |
| timeless_mbp2 | the fact that it didn't tell me _which_ network it had issues w/ didn't help matters | 10:30 |
| * timeless_mbp2 ponders | 10:31 | |
| timeless_mbp2 | Last sync ... Failed | 10:31 |
| timeless_mbp2 | … Invalid Exchange Server host address | 10:31 |
| timeless_mbp2 | in English: DNS lookup failed | 10:31 |
| timeless_mbp2 | can someone please suggest a replacement for 'Invalid....' ? | 10:31 |
| tybollt | what is wrong with "DNS lookup failed"? | 10:32 |
| marmoute | unknown | 10:32 |
| tybollt | or | 10:32 |
| timeless_mbp2 | tybollt: well | 10:33 |
| tybollt | "Couldn't resolve hostname" | 10:33 |
| tybollt | or | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp2 | you're assuming someone configured a hostname | 10:33 |
| tybollt | "You're a user so I hate you!" | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp2 | it's possible i wrote '126.0.0.1' | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp2 | instead of '127.0.0.1' | 10:33 |
| tybollt | (granted the last one is probably lesser appropriate?) | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp2 | i'll have to check to see if that triggers this error | 10:33 |
| pyhimys | Cannot connect to 'foo.bar.baz'; | 10:33 |
| timeless_mbp2 | the problem is that as a user... | 10:33 |
| * timeless_mbp2 rummages around trying to find a 'user' hat | 10:34 | |
| tybollt | timless: "Couldn't resolve hostname" | 10:34 |
| * timeless_mbp2 is sure there's one somewhere | 10:34 | |
| timeless_mbp2 | … as a user … i don't know what other errors are available | 10:34 |
| marmoute | timeless_mbp2: one the head of you voodoo dolls maybe ? | 10:35 |
| timeless_mbp2 | tybollt: i think 'Couldn't find Exchange Server' might work | 10:35 |
| timeless_mbp2 | marmoute: probably buried in someone else's closet | 10:35 |
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| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: fair enough, me likey | 10:35 |
| * timeless_mbp2 cries | 10:37 | |
| timeless_mbp2 | my .ssh directory isn't here | 10:37 |
| * timeless_mbp2 wonders where it is | 10:37 | |
| tybollt | ... | 10:37 |
| swc|666 | exchange ftfl | 10:38 |
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| * timeless_mbp2 tries to figure out what the heck a syncing status of 'Stopped' means | 10:41 | |
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| timeless_mbp2 | ok | 10:42 |
| timeless_mbp2 | afaict this message is reserved for cases where dns lookups fail | 10:42 |
| * johnx wants to stab malware writers ... | 10:43 | |
| * swc|666 wants to stab facebook users | 10:43 | |
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| johnx | in terms of negative social impact on the internet, I think virus writers still win ;) | 10:45 |
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| lucent | "old school" virus writers tended to their own clique | 10:47 |
| crashanddie | spam | 10:47 |
| lucent | it was anti-social but it wasn't loner stuff | 10:47 |
| crashanddie | Malware makes you visit websites, discover online-communities to erradicate the issue | 10:48 |
| crashanddie | Nobody gets together to show off their spam | 10:48 |
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| johnx | I'm thinking more the effect it has that casual internet users can never know what to trust | 10:48 |
| crashanddie | There are no spam-boards, where spammers give each other tips and tricks | 10:48 |
| lucent | o_O | 10:48 |
| johnx | crashanddie, spamusement.com | 10:48 |
| lucent | are you trolling? | 10:48 |
| auenf | some malware also claims to be virus/spyware scanners that find loads of crap to try and get money out of you | 10:48 |
| crashanddie | lucent: who are you asking? | 10:49 |
| tybollt | there are however plenty enough of corporate interest to backup spam | 10:49 |
| lucent | spam creators have their own exclusive club of message boards for techniques | 10:49 |
| johnx | auenf, and that's exactly what I spent the last couple hours digging off my dad's computer ... | 10:49 |
| lucent | it's the opposite of what you said now | 10:49 |
| auenf | johnx, malwarebytes is your friend | 10:49 |
| auenf | as is the bleepingcomputer site | 10:49 |
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| auenf | johnx, which name did it go by this time? | 10:50 |
| johnx | auenf, the thing actually hooked into the windows .exe loader, preventing malwarebytes from loading | 10:50 |
| crashanddie | lucent: oh really? Never came across one. However often came across "virus author" boards (well, more sk than anything else, come to think of it) | 10:50 |
| crashanddie | lucent: my bad then | 10:50 |
| auenf | some of them are full of typo's ;) | 10:50 |
| johnx | auenf, it's the new(ish) "antivirus 2010 XP" | 10:50 |
| crashanddie | lucent: I would never have thought that spammers (who inherently are trying to sell crap, thus don't like competition) would exchange tips and provide how-tos | 10:51 |
| auenf | johnx, yea, blocks exe's and similar from loading (not .com) and a proxy so if you surf anywhere, you goto the 'scanners' results only | 10:51 |
| lucent | crashanddie: there's only illegal and grey-market attempts at monetizing (what I refer to as "old school") virus writing plans | 10:51 |
| lucent | crashanddie: there's implicitly legal (Thanks CAN-SPAM act!) efforts to make a buck off spam | 10:51 |
| lucent | I mean, follow the money is what I'm saying here. | 10:51 |
| johnx | auenf, yeah, and I'll be the first to admit, dealing with windows viruses and malware is not my specialty | 10:51 |
| johnx | in this case, command.com was my friend :D | 10:51 |
| auenf | http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/virus-removal/remove-antivirus-2010 | 10:52 |
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| tybollt | it is a long standing known fact that virus writers are being financed by the anti-viiri companies | 10:52 |
| edheldil | is it? | 10:52 |
| lucent | tybollt: I've seen proof of this too | 10:52 |
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| auenf | anyway, time for me to go out... | 10:53 |
| tybollt | lucent: not surprising | 10:53 |
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| johnx | I wouldn't totally discount it, but I have a feeling it's through a million layers of abstraction (aka money laundering) | 10:53 |
| johnx | 'later auenf | 10:53 |
| tybollt | johnx: of course | 10:53 |
| edheldil | lucent: any verifiable sources for that claim? And I am not speaking about some chinese AV shops | 10:53 |
| lucent | virus writer groups back-in-the-day where 3 of the dozen core writers end up in jail, one or two suddenly have indemity and new jobs at security firms that suddenly acquire anti-virus programming shops | 10:53 |
| tybollt | johnx: also number accounts in switzerland | 10:53 |
| johnx | I long for the mid-90's when viruses were 1) pranks or 2) movie plots | 10:54 |
| lucent | edheldil: I've heard about this from some folks I know personally that used to be in the "scene", that's not exactly verifiable info though | 10:54 |
| lucent | edheldil: I've also seen articles in print which I don't have the motivation to go find for you, but I think they're not difficult to find if you are that curious | 10:55 |
| tybollt | anyway | 10:55 |
| edheldil | I think that, human personality being what it is, there's enough coders writing virii for free | 10:55 |
| tybollt | launching these theories makes people call you "tinfoil-hat" | 10:55 |
| tybollt | so... | 10:55 |
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| Shrik3 | botnets are the way virus writers earn nowadays | 10:56 |
| lucent | the overwhelming majority (in my observation and friendship with said folks) is that virus writers do it for a psychological need to be a more clever bastard than anyone has ever been before them. | 10:56 |
| Shrik3 | very few viruses are satisfied with an ambulance running across the screen like in the old days | 10:56 |
| Shrik3 | you need to build a botnet and start selling it for ddos attacks and spamming | 10:57 |
| lucent | ...and they accomplish that without ever releasing their virus to the wild, for the most part. | 10:57 |
| lucent | the botnet concept has really changed the scene | 10:57 |
| edheldil | lucent: I doubt that. That would not give the satisfaction that it REally Works (tm) | 10:57 |
| lucent | edheldil: doesn't have to work, just needs to be more clever than anything else out there. | 10:58 |
| edheldil | botnets are different thing, of course :) | 10:58 |
| tybollt | it's not really | 10:58 |
| tybollt | it's all based on how easily exploitable windows is | 10:58 |
| lucent | botnet brought corporate interest | 10:58 |
| edheldil | exactly | 10:59 |
| edheldil | they are real weapons of mass destruction | 10:59 |
| johnx | tybollt, nah, more based on how easily exploitable humans are | 10:59 |
| lucent | tybollt: if I may counter-point, I'm in the camp of thinking as johnx says, windows is !@#$ irrelevent | 11:00 |
| tybollt | I agree entirely | 11:00 |
| lucent | in fact I look at windows as a hinderance on the spread of effective malware | 11:00 |
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| edheldil | lucent: nah, they are a nice monoculture waiting to be swept with one bug. | 11:01 |
| lucent | no objections there ;) | 11:01 |
| edheldil | enhanced with the admin privs most users have | 11:01 |
| johnx | though really those aren't necessary | 11:02 |
| edheldil | no, but help to hide the malware in computer | 11:02 |
| johnx | the most common one I've seen lately is the "fake AV" deal, where all it needs to do is social engineer you into giving away your credit card. no admin privileges needed there | 11:02 |
| johnx | so it runs a systray applet and writes to HKEY_CURRENT_USER to put a hook in preventing .exe's it doesn't like from running | 11:03 |
| edheldil | they also install keyloggers etc., though | 11:03 |
| johnx | pretty sure that part of the registry doesn't need admin privileges... (though I'm honestly [blessedly] not an expert on Windows) | 11:04 |
| edheldil | is not it what normal AVs do as well? :-) | 11:04 |
| johnx | heh. true enough | 11:04 |
| lucent | johnx: I used to write from Win32 API calls and stuff, which bafflingly are callable from within Microsoft Excel's macro editor... | 11:05 |
| johnx | the thing that depresses me is that the most innocent and trusting people are the ones who need to become paranoid and constantly doubt themselves | 11:05 |
| lucent | johnx: write NOPs to the password check routine insta-admin | 11:05 |
| lucent | from visual basic script! | 11:05 |
| johnx | I wouldn't be surprised if my dad had gotten this from a document sent to him by a colleague | 11:06 |
| lucent | I mean you can do anything. It's just like any OS out there, even Linux | 11:06 |
| lucent | or Maemo | 11:06 |
| johnx | and I really don't see any good solutions ... | 11:07 |
| lucent | WINE is an interesting approach | 11:07 |
| edheldil | ? | 11:07 |
| lucent | though I've seen devs joke about virus compatibility as a goal | 11:07 |
| johnx | to getting windows viruses working on linux? :P | 11:07 |
| lucent | yah it is only a joke that WINE will eventually be complete enough that the problem of malware will need to be addressed | 11:08 |
| edheldil | you are aware that windows apps running under linux can execute linux syscalls, right? | 11:08 |
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| lucent | edheldil: sure | 11:10 |
| marmoute | edheldil: with priviliedge ? | 11:10 |
| edheldil | with the privileges the wine is running | 11:11 |
| lucent | the focus of the jest is on common made-for-windows native malware | 11:11 |
| johnx | sooo, what's the answer here? how do we fix the world without taking the iphone approach? | 11:11 |
| lucent | until made-for-WINE malware becomes commonplace, ... | 11:11 |
| lucent | johnx: sign the jesus out of everything with crypto | 11:12 |
| johnx | lucent, how does the end-user know who to trust? | 11:12 |
| edheldil | and I have heard about some "spam-everybody-in-addressbook" malware accidentally executed under wine years ago | 11:12 |
| lucent | and publicly shame people when they suck and make mistakes | 11:12 |
| lucent | johnx: tribunals! and executions | 11:12 |
| johnx | the end users or the virus writers? | 11:12 |
| edheldil | nuclear weapons ;-) | 11:13 |
| lucent | I recommend 3 days in the stocks for forwarding email including my address admidst hundreds of others in the CC field | 11:13 |
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| lucent | along with a twice-daily recietal of the origin of Blind Carbon Copy and its uses | 11:13 |
| lcuk | i would rather not get junk mail like that ;) | 11:14 |
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| johnx | so yeah, no good answers, huh? | 11:15 |
| johnx | c'mon, where are my simple answers to complex questions? :D | 11:15 |
| nid0 | whats even worse is when dumbasses on that cc list start using reply-to-all for their inane discussions about the inane original email | 11:15 |
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| lucent | johnx: you suppose I am joking about the executions... | 11:15 |
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| johnx | lucent, I don't think that really solves my complaint about "malware makes innocent/trusting users into paranoids" | 11:16 |
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| lucent | johnx: malware is based on demand, believe it or not malware exists because the public at large believes it exists and expects it | 11:17 |
| lucent | the existance of crap that gets in your way has become a "norm" for the average user that must grudgingly interact with their many hundred dollar machine | 11:18 |
| johnx | I'd like to politely disagree | 11:18 |
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| lucent | if it works perfectly then they will find flaws that don't exist. | 11:18 |
| lucent | I've seen this in action. What's your counter-point? | 11:18 |
| johnx | only empirical evidence | 11:18 |
| ssvb | tybollt: having worked for an antivirus company, I must say that there is an overwhelming amount of viruses and malware done by bad guys already so that it makes no sense to 'finance' or 'encourage' those bad guys even theoretically | 11:19 |
| edheldil | malware exists because there is incentive in writing it. More now when the incentive is financial | 11:19 |
| johnx | I admit, I've met some very "needy" users, who are never happy | 11:19 |
| lucent | ssvb: only if the malware disables your competitor's product from operation ? | 11:19 |
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| johnx | but I don't think anyone wants this kind of uncertainty in their day-to-day computing experience | 11:19 |
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| lucent | johnx: loosely, I've held 30-40 clients in my past experience as a small business and home user computer technician | 11:20 |
| lucent | not for any major firm like Geek Squad, this is me and my friends who are in business together | 11:21 |
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| johnx | and your clients asked how they could ensure a constant supply of malware? | 11:22 |
| lucent | at least HALF (definitely more but I don't have an exact figure) expect that interaction with a computer will lead to some kind of failure that impedes their work flow, and they fail to mention it because "everyone has this kind of problem, right? virus?" | 11:22 |
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| MOUD | Hey all | 11:23 |
| johnx | that's a problem of expectations | 11:23 |
| johnx | hey MOUD | 11:23 |
| nid0 | in fairness half of the "finding flaws that dont exist" (probably way more than half, in fact) is simply down to "i dont know how to use this properly so will assume it's broken" which is better than admitting their own limitations. | 11:23 |
| ssvb | lucent: this also does not stand ground, malware writers try to disable all the popular antiviruses in one way or another without discriminating anyone :) | 11:23 |
| lucent | ssvb: :) | 11:23 |
| johnx | lucent, people used to expect that cars would break down on a regular basis. heck, people used to be ok with taking months of enduring scurvy to cross the pacific | 11:23 |
| MOUD | I never used Voice SMS, is it possible on N900? If so, how do I do it? | 11:23 |
| edheldil | nid0: if the user interface is unintuitive, you could argue it IS broken :) | 11:24 |
| lucent | MOUD: not familiar with voice SMS | 11:24 |
| MOUD | hello johnx | 11:24 |
| nid0 | pebkac isnt limited to unintuitive interfaces | 11:24 |
| johnx | MOUD, is that like sending some kind of voice recording? | 11:24 |
| MOUD | lucent: no problem, maybe someone else is :) | 11:24 |
| lucent | MOUD: is that multi-media SMS with sound? | 11:24 |
| MOUD | johnx,. lucent: I think so | 11:24 |
| nid0 | people send messages these days with voice recordings? | 11:25 |
| johnx | then the answer is "probably it's not supported officially right now" on the N900 | 11:25 |
| nid0 | .....kind of like a phone call but slower? | 11:26 |
| MOUD | nid0: It can be sent from mobile to mobile, or email, or landline | 11:27 |
| lucent | nid0: that is similar to my reaction | 11:27 |
| nid0 | well other than the "to email" bit, you know you can make phone calls from mobile to mobile, or landline, right? | 11:27 |
| _|Nix|_ | timeless_mbp2: You around? | 11:28 |
| lucent | if the content of your Voice SMS is going to be "DELIVER THE MONEY OR THE _____ DIES" | 11:28 |
| lucent | I might suggest other methods. | 11:28 |
| MOUD | Here's a definition for voice sms (from a website): | 11:28 |
| MOUD | Voice SMS is, simply put, the ability to leave a voice message for someone without | 11:28 |
| MOUD | ringing their handset. It’s similar to SMS and MMS in that it involves one-way | 11:28 |
| MOUD | communication. It’s similar to voicemail in that a voice message is sent for someone | 11:28 |
| MOUD | to hear when they want to access it, but it’s different in that it’s an intentional voice | 11:28 |
| MOUD | message. | 11:28 |
| MOUD | sorry, didn't mean to. | 11:28 |
| RST38h | Hehe, someone else is finally getting the idea: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11221_The_application_store_dilema_o.php | 11:29 |
| RST38h | A catharsis of sorts=) | 11:29 |
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| nid0 | well, if thats what you want to do as a workaround you could always record your clip and email it to the recipient | 11:29 |
| johnx | MOUD, they're just giving you a hard time. The answer is that a 3rd party app called fmms is probably the closest thing we have. It's the only way to send MMS at all right now. | 11:29 |
| nid0 | or install fmms and use that, but it's in devel | 11:29 |
| MOUD | I heard that fmms can only send images but I'll give a try | 11:30 |
| RST38h | moo johnx | 11:30 |
| johnx | m00f RST38h | 11:30 |
| johnx | interesting article. saw it on planet but skipped it over | 11:30 |
| * johnx reads | 11:30 | |
| zaheerm | If you’re an Android dev and you have an app in the Market with at least 3.5 stars across 5,000 downloads, Google will soon be sending out a new phone as part of its “Device Seeding Program.” | 11:30 |
| MOUD | nid0: I want to try from my mobile to a landline | 11:31 |
| lucent | MOUD: similar function can be had by using Google Voice linked to your mobile number | 11:31 |
| nid0 | there are landlines that can receive mms's? | 11:31 |
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| nid0 | my landline phone can send/receive texts, but I wouldnt have thought any would be complex enough to process mms's.. | 11:31 |
| RST38h | johnx: This stuff has been known since Handango times | 11:31 |
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| johnx | ah, the palm days :) | 11:32 |
| MOUD | lucent: yes, I just read that while googling. I'll try later with a friend of mine, both of us have n900 | 11:32 |
| RST38h | johnx: So, not sure why so many people bought into all the hype, for so long | 11:32 |
| johnx | RST38h, all that's old is new again :) | 11:32 |
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| lucent | MOUD: wish I could comment by experience - my mobile 'net connection is only 2.5G (EDGE) | 11:32 |
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| lucent | no 3G for Jackson WY | 11:32 |
| lucent | iPod users love to brag about their 3G with AT&T | 11:33 |
| tybollt | ipod now has a 3G radio??? | 11:33 |
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| lucent | whatever it's called, iPhone | 11:34 |
| MOUD | lucent: no problem. I also heard that Voice SMS is somewhat cheaper than MMS (depending where you live) so I wanted to give a try. | 11:34 |
| johnx | tybollt, yup. they call it the "iphone" but it'll never take off. trust me | 11:34 |
| lucent | I suffer from that use of the first big concept to label all concepts thereafter | 11:34 |
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| johnx | then you should be calling it the MPman :D | 11:35 |
| tybollt | johnx: then surely you ought to be calling it "the newton" :) | 11:37 |
| johnx | or windows for pen computers? :) | 11:39 |
| johnx | s/ters/ting/ | 11:40 |
| infobot | johnx meant: or windows for pen computing? :) | 11:40 |
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| tybollt | does the n900 support RNDIS? | 11:48 |
| mgedmin | what's that? | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | yes, g_ether | 11:49 |
| * mgedmin idly remarks that g_ether.ko doesn't exist on a N900, but g_nokia.ko provides USB network connectivity | 11:50 | |
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| wazd_e63 | Heya maemo | 12:12 |
| alterego | IS there a linux desktop way of installing maps to the map cache? | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | jaffa had a guide? | 12:14 |
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| Stskeeps | lo wazd_e63 | 12:14 |
| alterego | I'll havea look. | 12:14 |
| alterego | Ah, perfect, thanks Stskeeps :) | 12:15 |
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| Khertan | Helloall! | 12:20 |
| Khertan | VectorMine 1.0.5 is waiting yout | 12:21 |
| Khertan | your vote in extras-testing | 12:21 |
| alterego | What does it do? :P | 12:21 |
| pupnik_ | fun asteroids style game | 12:22 |
| Khertan | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/vectormine/1.0.5-1/ | 12:22 |
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| Khertan | alterego_ : it s a clone of MineStorm for Vet | 12:23 |
| Khertan | alterego_ : it s a clone of MineStorm for Vectrex | 12:23 |
| m33go | hi people i need a help. i want to create a *.sh tah run this command line ""root | 12:23 |
| pupnik_ | Khertan: what did you change? | 12:23 |
| Khertan | fix icon bug | 12:23 |
| Khertan | add sound off option | 12:24 |
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| Khertan | and reduce sound of thruster | 12:24 |
| m33go | hi people i need a help. i want to create a *.sh tah run this command line >> root cd /media/mmc1/ export http_proxy=10.128.201.76:80 wget -c -r link | 12:24 |
| lucent | vector monitor game emulations never look quite like they should on LCD | 12:24 |
| m33go | can you help me? | 12:24 |
| * lucent notes that's an opinion only | 12:24 | |
| Khertan | lucent : yep of course ... but VectorMine have color :) no need to put sticker on your n900 screen | 12:25 |
| lucent | haha | 12:25 |
| pupnik_ | the high dpi on N900 makes it very close. you want brighter corners for overlap "d flickering? | 12:25 |
| m33go | can you help me???? thanks | 12:25 |
| Khertan | lucent : yep i haven t add flickering option too | 12:26 |
| m33go | hi people i need a help. i want to create a *.sh tah run this command line >> root cd /media/mmc1/ export http_proxy=10.128.201.76:80 wget -c -r link | 12:26 |
| pupnik_ | m33go: why use root? | 12:26 |
| m33go | root? its the same without it | 12:27 |
| m33go | but i need a sh script | 12:27 |
| pupnik_ | i havent used wget with http proxy, but just make the script executeable and take $1 or $@ for cmdline param | 12:30 |
| m33go | example? | 12:30 |
| m33go | make an example i dont know nothing bout sh | 12:31 |
| lindi- | wget -r as root sounds scary :) | 12:31 |
| lucent | I found this video helpful to explain what MineStorm is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbGRkdHPqlc | 12:31 |
| lindi- | http://iki.fi/lindi/wgettrap.poc is an old proof-of-concept against wget -r | 12:32 |
| m33go | people.... i just want to create a script that works like this cd /media/mmc1/ export http_proxy= #insert a valid proxy format PROXY:PORT and press enter | 12:34 |
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| m33go | people.... i just want to create a script that works like this cd /media/mmc1/ export http_proxy= #insert a valid proxy format PROXY:PORT and press enter... wget -c -r #insert a valid url link and press enter... no more | 12:35 |
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| pupnik_ | wasnt there a way to specify detination dir with wget -o /media/mmcq/bla ? | 12:35 |
| cehteh | whats the problem? | 12:35 |
| m33go | the problem is that i dont know sh script | 12:35 |
| pupnik_ | i think you want to look at && to seperate multiple commands m33go | 12:35 |
| pupnik_ | cd /foo && do_something | 12:36 |
| m33go | i dont know nothing about sh scripts | 12:36 |
| pupnik_ | i dont know enough to give an error free line | 12:37 |
| m33go | can u help me to create a sh file? | 12:37 |
| villager | sh script is easy... you already know the commands you want to run (cd, export, wget), put them into a file, voila, you got a sh script | 12:37 |
| m33go | villager.... it doesnt work | 12:38 |
| m33go | i did it | 12:38 |
| villager | did you make it executable? | 12:38 |
| m33go | i made it like .sh | 12:38 |
| villager | actually executable might not work without the shebang... alternatively, you can start it by typing "sh yourscript.sh" | 12:38 |
| pupnik_ | chmod u+x script.sh | 12:38 |
| m33go | when i digit ./name.sh it makes errors | 12:38 |
| m33go | umm ok | 12:39 |
| m33go | i'll try again | 12:39 |
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| pupnik_ | and seperate commands with newlines or && | 12:39 |
| villager | "sh ./yourscript.sh" perhaps | 12:39 |
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| m33go | what can i use to make understand to choose a dir or not? | 12:40 |
| m33go | a command line like if.... or.... then... | 12:40 |
| villager | there's one, but you probably need to login to a real linux to see the docs | 12:41 |
| pupnik_ | bleh. off 2 hospital - ttyl | 12:41 |
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| m33go | example.... #press 1 to download on MMC press 2 to downllad on MyDocs press 3 to make it custom... | 12:42 |
| m33go | how can i make a command line like that? | 12:42 |
| villager | that is more advanced shell programming I guess | 12:42 |
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| villager | it can be done but you have to learn a bunch of commands and how to use them together | 12:43 |
| m33go | my god..... | 12:43 |
| m33go | too hard to study? | 12:43 |
| villager | not really, but you might spend a few hours on it | 12:44 |
| villager | if you're a total newbie | 12:44 |
| m33go | :) thanks a lot i'm a new new newbie | 12:44 |
| m33go | very new hahahaha :D | 12:44 |
| villager | you might want to find examples | 12:45 |
| m33go | but i'm scary about variables | 12:45 |
| m33go | it's too hard | 12:45 |
| m33go | i hate variables my god | 12:46 |
| villager | you probably won't be able to do it without variables | 12:46 |
| villager | variables aren't that hard anyway | 12:46 |
| villager | they're convenient | 12:47 |
| m33go | i know. but i dont know how to calculate a range of bytes to allocate on it | 12:48 |
| villager | the user's response would probably go into a variable, then your if or case statements would check that variable | 12:48 |
| m33go | this is too hard for me. | 12:48 |
| villager | this isn't C... you don't need to allocate a range of bytes for variables in sh | 12:48 |
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| m33go | really? | 12:49 |
| m33go | :D | 12:49 |
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| m33go | thank u soo much | 12:51 |
| m33go | have a nice day people | 12:51 |
| m33go | thanks for helping me | 12:51 |
| tank-man | check out perl after bash :) | 12:52 |
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| corecode | anybody have a trick to switch IM accounts to "away" after some time? | 13:10 |
| MiXu- | That would be nice. | 13:11 |
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| MiXu- | Or on second thought... You're always carrying the N900 around anyway, right? | 13:12 |
| MiXu- | So technically you're not away :) | 13:12 |
| corecode | at night i am away | 13:12 |
| MiXu- | Oooh, I misnunderstood you then | 13:13 |
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| MiXu- | I thought you meant a timeout | 13:13 |
| corecode | yea, something | 13:14 |
| corecode | i dunno | 13:14 |
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| corecode | maybe also a combination | 13:14 |
| ptl | stratagus post was removed from talk.maemo.org?? | 13:14 |
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| cehteh | corecode: i had some idea about a daemon which does intelligent profile switching and xorAxAx started implementing it ... dwimd | 13:17 |
| corecode | dwimd? | 13:17 |
| cehteh | check it out, it basically works iirc, had no time try yet | 13:17 |
| Khertan | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/vectormine/1.0.5-1/ <--- still require your vote ! | 13:17 |
| xorAxAx | the environment sensing gestalt optimizer | 13:17 |
| xorAxAx | its in extras-devel, corecode | 13:17 |
| cehteh | hi xorAxAx | 13:17 |
| xorAxAx | hi cehteh | 13:18 |
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| corecode | what is vectormine? | 13:19 |
| cehteh | game? | 13:20 |
| corecode | bah | 13:20 |
| cehteh | hehe | 13:20 |
| corecode | what's up with people and games | 13:20 |
| cehteh | yeah .. i want serious apps | 13:20 |
| cehteh | well .. emacs works :P | 13:20 |
| corecode | app manager doesn't show down-pinned apps? | 13:21 |
| corecode | meh. | 13:21 |
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| cehteh | instead my todays hack is tagged dangerous, not useful -- pfft n00bs | 13:21 |
| corecode | which hack | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | todays hack? | 13:22 |
| corecode | and where do you publish them | 13:22 |
| corecode | and now, dwimd? | 13:23 |
| corecode | how do i use it | 13:23 |
| corecode | there is no man command | 13:23 |
| cehteh | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46363 | 13:23 |
| cehteh | i admit its really a hack, but works | 13:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyone used the debian chroot thingy? | 13:24 |
| SpeedEvil | how do I get keyb working in lxde | 13:24 |
| Hoxzer | I guews the eternal loop isn't very good for battery | 13:25 |
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| corecode | why? | 13:25 |
| SpeedEvil | It only loops once per dbus event | 13:25 |
| corecode | once per captured event | 13:25 |
| corecode | oh course dbus will itself process many events | 13:25 |
| corecode | xorAxAx: any docs available? | 13:26 |
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| xorAxAx | corecode: yes, the README file | 13:26 |
| xorAxAx | corecode: which is under /etc/dwimd | 13:26 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: I'd like a noise. | 13:26 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: an earth-shattering kaboom by preference. | 13:27 |
| xorAxAx | alternatively, you can read it here: http://hg.alexanderweb.de/dwimd-main/file/7d806ddfbaa9/README.txt | 13:27 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: but a plaintive beep would work too | 13:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | And yes, I could trivially add that. | 13:27 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: i dont understand why there is no difference between annoying systems sounds and important things | 13:27 |
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| cehteh | SpeedEvil: it beeps when you turn system sounds on | 13:27 |
| cehteh | in profile | 13:27 |
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| cehteh | bit then it makes swooosh, wiiimp, brrrrzz, ggrlgl ... and such noises too | 13:28 |
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| cehteh | i hate that | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 13:30 |
| corecode | xorAxAx: do you also have a problem that the wifi doesn't automatically switch to eduroam? | 13:31 |
| xorAxAx | corecode: yes | 13:31 |
| xorAxAx | corecode: also it cannot switch because it needs a cert passphrase | 13:32 |
| corecode | oh? | 13:32 |
| xorAxAx | but if i remove the passphrase, the cert is invalid | 13:32 |
| corecode | i don't need that here | 13:32 |
| xorAxAx | (in my case) | 13:32 |
| corecode | on_stand? | 13:32 |
| corecode | haha | 13:32 |
| corecode | cute! | 13:32 |
| xorAxAx | yeah, i like that rule :-) | 13:32 |
| corecode | thanks, that's a clever thing | 13:32 |
| xorAxAx | presentation mode | 13:32 |
| MiXu- | Hmm. Is there a way to change internet connectivity on N900 to sort of "on demand, but disable when no traffic"? | 13:32 |
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| corecode | why would you vote for silent at uni? | 13:33 |
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| MiXu- | So that it would connect automatically to check email, and whatnot, but would turn internet connection off afterwards. | 13:33 |
| corecode | is there access to the proximity sensor? | 13:33 |
| xorAxAx | corecode: because there are lectures and meetings running | 13:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | MiXu-: There's no such thing like "on demand" | 13:33 |
| xorAxAx | corecode: i havent written a proximity sensor yet, no. but feel free :) | 13:33 |
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| MiXu- | DocScrutinizer: Hmm. That's a bit disappointing, since symbian phones can do it. | 13:33 |
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| corecode | vibration obviously only makes sense in the pocket | 13:34 |
| MiXu- | And it has a significant effect on the battery life | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | MiXu-: please read chan logs. We had that very topic 2 days ago (or 3) | 13:34 |
| SpeedEvil | there is something in extras I think to turn that off | 13:34 |
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| MiXu- | DocScrutinizer: Ok, thanks | 13:34 |
| corecode | xorAxAx: you should package the sample config | 13:34 |
| corecode | xorAxAx: seems you're not using gps for location sensing | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | MiXu-: bottom line: Even when we'd implement such nonsense, it had no effect whatsoever on battery life | 13:35 |
| xorAxAx | the code supports gps but it needs too much energy, corecode | 13:35 |
| corecode | yea | 13:35 |
| corecode | that was my concern | 13:35 |
| corecode | is it possible to use cell information only? | 13:35 |
| xorAxAx | yes, if you modify the code | 13:35 |
| corecode | xorAxAx: how do you hack on the code? | 13:36 |
| xorAxAx | if you want to use dwimd, i suggest a hg clone | 13:36 |
| corecode | will do, just what's the most efficient process | 13:36 |
| xorAxAx | http://hg.alexanderweb.de/dwimd-main/ | 13:36 |
| corecode | hack on desktop, build package, load on phone? | 13:36 |
| corecode | ssh into phone, hack on phone? | 13:37 |
| xorAxAx | hack on the desktop, commit push | 13:37 |
| xorAxAx | or hack on the phone, commit push | 13:37 |
| xorAxAx | or hack on the desktop, scp file | 13:37 |
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| MiXu- | DocScrutinizer: Active vs. inactive packet data has around 1mA difference if I recall right. | 13:38 |
| cehteh | sshfs even easier | 13:38 |
| cehteh | i mount the build dir of the sdk on the phone and then can try things directly | 13:38 |
| xorAxAx | yeah, that works as well | 13:39 |
| cehteh | there is also sbsh scratchboxshell, but i dont care sshfs is much easier | 13:39 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: that depends. | 13:39 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: with some cell networks and use-cases - the phone can be recamping quite often | 13:40 |
| corecode | could you guys who worked with that already maybe document it in rough terms in the wiki? | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | MiXu-: If you're talking about GPRS - you'll need to run a full DHCP registering for each time you crank up the "connectivity". So even if that 1mA figure is correct, it won't buy you anything, as the increased data traffic for DHCP will eat up all the savings | 13:40 |
| cehteh | no .. i work in my self-cooked way, bit raw like a good steak | 13:40 |
| corecode | xorAxAx: auto-secure device could be nice too | 13:41 |
| corecode | cehteh: that's good | 13:41 |
| MiXu- | DocScrutinizer: Ok, that's a good point. I can accept that. :) | 13:41 |
| cehteh | i also plan to setup a chroot with the sdk on the device | 13:41 |
| corecode | cehteh: any best practice is good to know | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: recamping only accounts for GPRS if you do not keep any normal GSM connectivity during that | 13:41 |
| xorAxAx | corecode: yeah, based on location for example | 13:41 |
| xorAxAx | corecode: come to #dwimd if you are interested | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: maybe - it seems to recamp for me lots more often with an idle GPRS connection. | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: or maybe I'm measuring wrong | 13:42 |
| MiXu- | So actually what would be needed is a change in the protocols :) | 13:42 |
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| MiXu- | Or static IP:s for mobile devices, or something. | 13:42 |
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| cehteh | hehe we all want our own v6 ip on the n900 right? right! | 13:45 |
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| koala_man | right! | 13:46 |
| SpeedEvil | v8 | 13:46 |
| cehteh | ping -f when on vacation .. that will be fun | 13:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | static IP, combined with some sort of cryptokey would be good | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | So the router only accepted signed packets | 13:47 |
| cehteh | i got my openvpn very well working now | 13:47 |
| cehteh | to home currently .. but considering to put another node my server as gateway | 13:47 |
| cehteh | that would allow such stunts | 13:47 |
| SpeedEvil | cehteh: yeah - that works too. | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | But the option to only allow signed packets would be lovely. | 13:48 |
| cehteh | thats ipsec :) | 13:48 |
| SpeedEvil | And solve completely DDOS issues | 13:48 |
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| cehteh | bit pita to setup isnt it | 13:49 |
| cehteh | nah it wont | 13:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | well - to the extent that the routers knowing your public key can drop packets mis-signed | 13:49 |
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| cehteh | validating signatures costs, getting signatures would be all to simple | 13:49 |
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| cehteh | routers cant handle that | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | They should. | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | And yes, I know there is probably no standard to do this. | 13:50 |
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| * cehteh would like some RST packet alike which is respected already by routers voluntary | 13:50 | |
| SpeedEvil | ? | 13:51 |
| cehteh | when i say "i dont want packets from X" in a ack packet which goes the route back, every router on that way should drop that route (make a negative entry for some time) | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 13:51 |
| SpeedEvil | that would sort-of help in some cases yes. | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | not ddos though | 13:52 |
| cehteh | needs to be spoof-proof of course | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | well - not the worst ddos | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | there was someone over on ##linux a while back getting ddos'd by a quarter of a million hosts | 13:52 |
| SpeedEvil | sending a http connection request every hour or so | 13:53 |
| cehteh | in theory even for massive ddos, with the objective to reduce the ddos considerably | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - but you can't have long banlists | 13:53 |
| cehteh | if you can do that then ddosing becomes less interesting too and may die out | 13:53 |
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| cehteh | yeah this should be voluntary routers only accept it as long they have resouces | 13:54 |
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| cehteh | but since everyone suffers from ddos even the backbone providers already which are not primary target it might be appealing | 13:54 |
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| cehteh | but there is no such technology yet and i am sure there are a lot things i didnt thought of | 13:55 |
| SpeedEvil | packet signing would approach it from the other side. | 13:55 |
| edheldil | like recognizing legitimate and ddos traffic. If you just filter out, you create ddos on yourself | 13:56 |
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| cehteh | packet signing will only work when you know your communication partner or some trusted authority which issues certificates | 13:57 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes. | 13:57 |
| cehteh | look at the crap ssl usability and what it costs to get certs and how many authorities you never heard of are preinstalled in your browser | 13:58 |
| cehteh | and how much usefule (cacert) are not there yet | 13:58 |
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| cehteh | it will make private/community/peer2peer communiation much harder | 13:58 |
| cehteh | not everyone wants to buy a certificate and is then left behind | 13:59 |
| SpeedEvil | In principle p2p could be done by you passing a key along with the search request | 13:59 |
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| cehteh | and anonymity networks will also suffer | 13:59 |
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| cehteh | imo that opens a can of worms | 13:59 |
| edheldil | since ddos botnets use zombie comps, packet signing would not help you much | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | you're already passing the IP with the search request | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | edheldil: sure it will. | 14:00 |
| SpeedEvil | edheldil: it means that a random packet sent to your IP doesn't get tehre | 14:00 |
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| edheldil | that would require that everybody and everything uses certs | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 14:01 |
| edheldil | and as soon as you can get to some device, you can send out worm disabling the cert check (unless TPM) | 14:03 |
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| jo-erlend | I have a widget on my n900, called Conversations. It displays an envelope with 5 (8) and a "speech bouble" with 1 (49). What do these mean? I've opened sms inbox and email inbox and I can't find any unread messages. | 14:05 |
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| Cervajz | Hi guys | 14:06 |
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| Cervajz | Is it possible to repair .tmp_video.mp4 file? My N900 switched off during recording and I would like get a part of the record at least. Thank you | 14:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | Cervajz: Does mplayer play it? | 14:11 |
| Cervajz | SpeedEvil: I dont't test it, because I am on Windows workstation right now. I will try it at home. But VLC doesn't. | 14:12 |
| asj__ | there's mplayer for windows | 14:12 |
| Funnyface | why did it just turn off? out of battery or some other issue? | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Cervajz: is the file the right size? | 14:12 |
| Cervajz | Funnyface: Yes, out of battery | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Cervajz: how large is it? | 14:12 |
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| Cervajz | SpeedEvil: It has 250 MB, I think it is ok | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Cervajz: also - file a bug. | 14:12 |
| Cervajz | proper size | 14:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Cervajz: you should not be left with a broken recording if it went down 'cleanly' | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | ~bug | 14:13 |
| infobot | well, bug is n: A son of a glitch. An error in design or programming in hardware or software. Effects range from cosmetic errors to system crash and loss of data. See also Feature. | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtcSYPjJbgg | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | I've no idea what that is | 14:13 |
| SpeedEvil | https://bugs.maemo.org/index.cgi | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | I meant | 14:14 |
| nid0 | first one indicates you're a monty python fan. | 14:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah. It was in another channel. I was suggesting a punishment for female pickpockets. After someone commented that you can't just punch them coz they're girls. | 14:15 |
| Cervajz | Let me check mplayer in windows | 14:15 |
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| t_s_o | ok, why is maemo planet recycling 2 year old blogs? | 14:17 |
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| Cervajz | http://pastebin.com/vQqMnzyc | 14:20 |
| Cervajz | So, mplayer doesn't replay this file :( | 14:20 |
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| SpeedEvil | Ok - does mplayer -forceindex do anything? | 14:21 |
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| mmarc__ | hi, what do we have apout grep, looks like it is installed already, but when trying apt-get install grep, it wannts to remove numerous package. With existing /bin/grep the source configure issue is "checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... configure: error: no acceptable grep could be found in /bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin" - have you seen this? | 14:22 |
| Cervajz | SpeedEvil: Unknown parameter | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | -forceidx | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | oops | 14:24 |
| X-Fade | SpeedEvil: Doesn't that read the entire file first? | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | mmarc__: there is gnu-grep in the repos. | 14:24 |
| SpeedEvil | X-Fade: yes | 14:24 |
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| mmarc__ | SpeedEvil: I've seen grep-gnu, but what repository is it from? | 14:25 |
| SpeedEvil | It's in extras-testing at teh moment I think | 14:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/grep-gnu/ | 14:26 |
| Cervajz | SpeedEvil: Same error like "pastebin" | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Cervajz: is this a video you can easily share, or private? | 14:26 |
| mmarc__ | SpeedEvil: repository url is http://repository.maemo.org/extras ? | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | People over on #mplayer may have more clues | 14:26 |
| SpeedEvil | mmarc__: don't recall ATM | 14:27 |
| mmarc__ | pard me? | 14:27 |
| lcuk | Cervajz, copy file to desktop and diagnose from there. it is seemingly corrupt | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | mmarc__: I don't think it's in extras - maybe extras-devel - or extras-testing | 14:27 |
| X-Fade | mmarc__: The grep you are using probably comes from busybox. | 14:27 |
| Cervajz | SpeedEvil: I can share it :) It is form concert of Imogen Heap | 14:27 |
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| Cervajz | from* | 14:27 |
| mmarc__ | yup, looks so | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Cervajz: I would also see if the same happens when you truncate a good file | 14:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Cervajz: people from #mplayer may or may not have a clue | 14:28 |
| lcuk | on desktop check if file is filled with 0's | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | that too | 14:28 |
| lcuk | SpeedEvil, this isnt mplayer fault | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: I'm not saying it is | 14:28 |
| lcuk | afaik its a corrupt video Cervajz is trying to use | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | lcuk: I'm saying they may have a clue on rescuing corrupt videos. | 14:28 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - sometimes you can recover streams by prepending or appending bits from files with similar encodings. | 14:29 |
| Cervajz | It is not filled by 0 (in hexa view) | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | There are several possibilities. | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | mplayer/the viewer cannot play the file without the trailer or header filled in as the recorder would normally do at the end of recording. | 14:30 |
| nid0 | heh good old microsoft | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | The file data has not been properly allocated, and the data you are seeing in the file isn't 'real' data - just garbage off teh disk. | 14:30 |
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| nid0 | win7 rc1 auto shutdowns as of this month can be fooled by such complexity as winding the system's date back. | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually - that's only two | 14:31 |
| Cervajz | SpeedEvil: I think, that the right one is first one | 14:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | possibly. | 14:32 |
| SpeedEvil | I'd try first truncating the file. | 14:32 |
| SpeedEvil | A known good file that is | 14:32 |
| SpeedEvil | then running battery out again | 14:32 |
| SpeedEvil | and see if you get the same reaction | 14:32 |
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| Chiku | does gmail talk work for you? | 14:38 |
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| Cervajz | SpeedEvil: Okay, I'll do some experiments at home. | 14:38 |
| Cervajz | Thank you | 14:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | good luck | 14:39 |
| SpeedEvil | But submit a bug | 14:39 |
| SpeedEvil | if the shutdown was clean - that's a bug - as the video recorder should have finished off the file. | 14:39 |
| SpeedEvil | If the shutdown was not clean - that's also a bug - as it should have shutdown cleanly | 14:40 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 14:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Norming | 14:44 |
| * Jaffa wonders if sjgadsby will accept jeremiah's nomination. | 14:45 | |
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| red | http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/toxics/electronics/how-the-companies-line-up | 14:46 |
| red | :) | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | ass-hats. | 14:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Largely. | 14:47 |
| dazo | Anyone seen this one? http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/376793/e005a4364bf44c5d/ .... "Apple's patent attack" | 14:48 |
| derf | You shouldn't repost subscriber links in a public forum. They're meant for sharing with individuals. | 14:49 |
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| dazo | derf: ahh ... didn't know | 14:49 |
| dazo | derf: thx for the info! | 14:50 |
| Shrik3 | red: greenpeace counts promises to do better in the score | 14:51 |
| Shrik3 | which is bullshit | 14:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | And the toxic content of stuff is largely irrelevant in many cases. | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | If you employ a worker making mobile phones. | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | You have to count a portion of whole emissions of that worker against the phones. | 14:53 |
| SpeedEvil | From the fertiliser used for their food, to their holiday on a plane. | 14:54 |
| nid0 | tbh the whole apple filing is as much bullshit as almost every other software patent spat | 14:54 |
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| Funnyface | SpeedEvil: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=553658#post553658 :P | 14:56 |
| Shrik3 | that's just basic american patent procedure | 14:56 |
| Shrik3 | they dig out every single obvious patent they have and throw them at the opponent | 14:56 |
| Shrik3 | and see what sticks | 14:56 |
| Shrik3 | then the opponent does the same | 14:56 |
| Shrik3 | lawyers get rich, nothing really happens | 14:56 |
| tybollt | yeah | 14:57 |
| Lumpio- | This is why we should forget about America | 14:57 |
| tybollt | there's always a settlement out of court in the end | 14:57 |
| Lumpio- | Move development to a more civilized country | 14:57 |
| tybollt | if however one of the parties haven't gone bancrupt by thern | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: err - what? | 14:57 |
| Funnyface | just some silly thread I found :P | 14:57 |
| Shrik3 | there really haven't been that many high profile patent losses | 14:58 |
| Funnyface | thought maybe you'd like it as you have knowledge in both subjects.. :P | 14:58 |
| Shrik3 | sony's vibration patent is the only one that comes to my mind | 14:58 |
| tybollt | ? | 14:58 |
| tybollt | sony owns the dildo patent? :) | 14:59 |
| Shrik3 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony | 14:59 |
| Funnyface | oh and err I am in the wrong channel too.. | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | solar charget 100mm*50mm will in desert sun - intercept about 7.5W of sunlight. About 15% best-case of that can be converted into electricity. So about 1W | 14:59 |
| Shrik3 | ps3 didn't have dualshock at first because, according to sony, "it didn't fit in the controller with sixaxis detection" | 14:59 |
| Shrik3 | the real reason was their patent dispute with immersion | 14:59 |
| Shrik3 | after that cleared - surprise - the vibration components suddenly fit inside the controller =) | 15:00 |
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| Chiku | ok gmail video works for wifi | 15:01 |
| Khertan | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/vectormine/1.0.5-1/ <--- still require your vote ! | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: 1W will charge the n900 - if not being used - in about 4h. | 15:02 |
| tybollt | Khertan: you may stop spamming that now... | 15:02 |
| tybollt | really | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Funnyface: that's in the desert sun. But it will also overheat it. | 15:02 |
| tybollt | it's getting annoying since I suppose it is just a script | 15:02 |
| Khertan | tybollt: yep ... really :) it was not post to the right windows | 15:02 |
| Khertan | no it s not a script | 15:02 |
| tybollt | oh well :) | 15:02 |
| Khertan | but a arrow up | 15:02 |
| Khertan | ctrl-c | 15:02 |
| Khertan | shift tab | 15:03 |
| Khertan | ctrl-v | 15:03 |
| Funnyface | SpeedEvil: yes, I think it is pretty much a useless idea, + most of those people are probably clueless about the power you can expect from the panel, and how much the device uses :P | 15:03 |
| Khertan | but ... the ctrl was missing in the ctrl-shift-tab shortcut | 15:03 |
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| tybollt | =) | 15:03 |
| Funnyface | however when we get these thin film cells that can be integrated into clothes and such, maybe they'll sell coats with a charger plug in the pocket :D | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | In more normal climates - it might charge if left all summer day | 15:04 |
| Khertan | so the result was posting it again ... instead of posting it to an other firefox tabs :) sorry for the noise | 15:04 |
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| tybollt | Khertan: no harm done :) | 15:05 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: Spammer ;) | 15:05 |
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| Khertan | X-Fade: at least you haven't see my other project yet ... | 15:06 |
| Khertan | bluespam ... a proximity bluetooth spammer :) | 15:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Khertan: HAH, that's you | 15:09 |
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| Khertan | DocScrutinizer: i'm not the only one who done that ... but i ve one that use a n810 to spam :) | 15:10 |
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| Khertan | hum talk.maemo.org ... is slow | 15:13 |
| Khertan | and doesn't answer ... | 15:13 |
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| Khertan | next time it was when pr1.1 was available :) | 15:13 |
| Khertan | maybe a good sign | 15:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | probably the cleaning team accitentally hit one of the screens of the 770 server farm | 15:15 |
| tybollt | 770 server farm? | 15:15 |
| pupnik | RST38h: i cant really find anything unworkable with nethack / vultures eye and N900 keyboard. don't recall all commands though. | 15:15 |
| Khertan | oh ? really there is more than one 770 ? | 15:15 |
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| tybollt | Nokia N770 server farm? | 15:16 |
| tybollt | Uhm | 15:16 |
| Khertan | you mean they use 3 770 for hosting maemo ? | 15:16 |
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| Khertan | :) | 15:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nah they expanded it to 50 recently | 15:16 |
| mmarc__ | SpeedEvil: thanks, but how now can I switch from busybox's grep onto grep-gnu? configure seems still trying to use busybox's grep | 15:16 |
| pupnik | maemo.org speed has been okay for me at least lately | 15:17 |
| Khertan | stupid but required ... as other are stupid too | 15:19 |
| Khertan | oupss ... wrong windows | 15:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | again? | 15:20 |
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| * Khertan should clean is keyboard ... ctrl key isn't working all the time | 15:20 | |
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| Meego | hi... can u help me? i need to create a key press value to change direcory on biash shell script | 15:21 |
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| tybollt | biash? | 15:22 |
| Meego | something like press 1 to mmc | 15:22 |
| tybollt | who you calling a biatch? | 15:22 |
| Meego | bash sorry | 15:22 |
| tybollt | ;-) | 15:22 |
| tybollt | just kidding | 15:22 |
| Khertan | ... hum ... there is more and more Meego ... M33GO m33g0 m3eGo nick here | 15:22 |
| Meego | funny | 15:22 |
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| tybollt | Khertan: /nick meeto :) | 15:23 |
| Meego | meego we hope bout it | 15:23 |
| Meego | can u help me? | 15:23 |
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| tybollt | can you elaborate on what you need to do? | 15:24 |
| tybollt | changing dir is accomplished by the "cd" command followed by a path | 15:24 |
| Meego | i need a code script that pressing 1 works like cd /media/mmc1/ pressing 2 others... | 15:25 |
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| Meego | i know. but i have to create a valute with an echo. | 15:26 |
| tybollt | ah | 15:26 |
| tybollt | while readline | 15:26 |
| timeless_mbp2 | _|Nix|_: sorry, i'm around now... | 15:26 |
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| tybollt | is the typical bashism for that Meego | 15:26 |
| Meego | an example? | 15:26 |
| tybollt | Meego: the bash man page has plenty IIRC | 15:26 |
| tybollt | or the googles | 15:26 |
| Meego | please... i m creating a maemo application | 15:27 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: what will it cost me to bribe an N900 nookla person to change "Yeah, right" to something else? :S | 15:27 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | tybollt: 'yeah, right' is only in my en_US locale... | 15:28 |
| timeless_mbp2 | the en_GB locale uses something else | 15:28 |
| timeless_mbp2 | if you don't like yeah, right, you can use en_GB :) | 15:28 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: You want me to change to .fi, don't you? :P | 15:28 |
| tybollt | but fair enough then | 15:28 |
| chr83 | hi everybody! i followed the irc link on maemo.org. i'm interested in buying the n900 but i have questions for which i couldn't find answers, maybe some of you can help | 15:29 |
| Meego | we can | 15:29 |
| Meego | i ve it | 15:29 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: when it boots back up ... will it be "Very well then, jolly ol chap"? | 15:29 |
| Meego | i m chatting with it | 15:29 |
| chr83 | thanks. s, from what i gathered, it is quite possible that maego 6 / meego won't run on the n900, right? | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp2 | tybollt: sadly it's slightly more business like, i don't remember precisely | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp2 | do you really dislike yeah, right? | 15:30 |
| mmarc__ | do we have glib-2.0 on maemo? | 15:30 |
| timeless_mbp2 | mmarc__: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/find?string=glib.*debian/control ? | 15:30 |
| Meego | maemo 5? i check | 15:30 |
| Shrik3 | chr83: no one really knows if it will run or not | 15:30 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: I die a little inside everytime I see it. But I don't want to be a nerd and file a bug report just for you to go all WON'TFIX on me :):) | 15:31 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | mmarc__: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/glib2.0/debian/changelog | 15:31 |
| chr83 | yes, what i wonder is this: if/when nokia stops updating the n900, is maemo open enough that the community / the devs can still fix bugs and add features, or is this only possible with nokia's blessing? | 15:32 |
| Meego | we have on fremantle libglib2.0-0 | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | chr83: my role is to help community do things in that area | 15:33 |
| timeless_mbp2 | chr83: you don't mean fix features and add bugs? :) | 15:33 |
| Stskeeps | and blessing can mean a lot of things :) | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: :-) | 15:33 |
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| Meego | someone can help me with bash shell script? | 15:34 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: thanks, the UK_en is way way less nausiating, although far from perfect. | 15:34 |
| chr83 | so it's possible? i'm worried having a no-longer officially supported device which still has bugs and missing features a year from now - and that the core of the maemo community will be focusing on meego and newer devices | 15:34 |
| mmarc__ | timeless_mbp2: thanks | 15:35 |
| lcuk | meego use a proper nickname like everybody else | 15:35 |
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| lcuk | well that solves that problem | 15:35 |
| tybollt | awww =) | 15:35 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | chr83: roughly, you can update modest independently of nokia | 15:35 |
| timeless_mbp2 | as long as you can get translation strings for new features | 15:36 |
| lcuk | and theres a metric tonne of code on gitorious now | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp2 | you can get firefox for mobile from mozilla.org | 15:36 |
| lcuk | all the desktop and gtk stuff and lots of things | 15:36 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | you can add additional codecs (or improved ones) for mafw via gstreamer | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp2 | roughly speaking, you have a debian derivative with a slightly strange base | 15:36 |
| timeless_mbp2 | but if there's a third party with a decent mobile ui, you can probably get their app for your n900 and use it and rely on their maintenance cycle | 15:37 |
| lcuk | we just had a patch from community for tracker | 15:37 |
| chr83 | i heard the drivers are not open source is that true? | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | chr83: no | 15:37 |
| SpeedEvil | chr83: at least not for most | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | chr83: all kernel modules are open source | 15:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes, that | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | and kernel itself | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | there is an exception to some userland bits which are closed (3d libs, battery management) but they aren't a problem if you aren't too idealistic and focus on the goal instead | 15:38 |
| koala_man | chr83: maemo has several blobs, but you can install other os like Mer | 15:38 |
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| lcuk | and of course you can do whatever you want to replace the closed components whilst keeping the os | 15:39 |
| chr83 | those community patches - do they get incorporated into the official nokia updates or is there some community website with patches to download or something ? | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | they occasionally get included | 15:40 |
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| lcuk | chr83, i can confirm that community patches do get integrated when they are reported and documented and managed correctly and have a real effect (ie fixing real bugs) | 15:40 |
| lcuk | "i made a patch to replace os with android" probably wont get in ;) | 15:41 |
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| lcuk | but something like "my album art is borked but i found out why" has a much better chance | 15:41 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, didnt one of your patches get merged in recently | 15:42 |
| chr83 | great. one real world end-user example: it's possible that there will be skype videocalls with the front cam even after nokia stopped updateing7supporting the n900? | 15:42 |
| lcuk | you blogged about it | 15:42 |
| lcuk | when community start offering patches for skype then they can be looked at | 15:42 |
| lcuk | but last i heard there was no community of developers | 15:43 |
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| X-Fade | chr83: Skype is a wrong example as that is a closed source application. | 15:43 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: yeah, but for some purposes my patches aren't community | 15:43 |
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| chr83 | right | 15:44 |
| lcuk | not now i agree but wasnt that done before you were upgraded | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | jesus, it's snowing a lot outside | 15:44 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: think some may have | 15:44 |
| mmarc__ | configure: error: S-Lang library version 2.0 or newer not found | 15:44 |
| mmarc__ | slang1/slang1a seems to be not the right thing. Maybe we need slang2? Does it exist? | 15:44 |
| lcuk | chr83, there is also the case that all the upstream modifications that go in | 15:44 |
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| chr83 | another speculation which oyu guys probably can make much better informed guesses about: if maemo6/meego really won't be supported on the n900 - do you think the majority of devs will move onto newer devices, leaving the n900 behind? | 15:47 |
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| SpeedEvil | At some point, devs move. | 15:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Devs move with the users - prettymuch | 15:48 |
| Andrewfblack | Stskeeps: Should I bug you this week? | 15:48 |
| chr83 | you know the n900 is quite expensive so i have to convince myself it's a good decision ;) | 15:48 |
| SpeedEvil | developing for a platform with 0 users is boring. | 15:48 |
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| ptl | really, guys, what made us very insecure about our N900s are these vague responses | 15:48 |
| Stskeeps | go read my post | 15:48 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:48 |
| Stskeeps | and the FUD thread | 15:48 |
| ptl | I consider this very negative... More feedback should be given to prospective devs/users | 15:48 |
| X-Fade | People tend to follow the new things anyway. But that said, harmattan hardware is announced to use omap3 too. | 15:49 |
| X-Fade | So there isn't a cpu generation change. | 15:49 |
| t_s_o | it also depends on what kind of project the dev is working on, and how it can benefit from new hardware or platform | 15:49 |
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| dazo | chr83: it is a good buy ... expensive, yes ... but it's one of the best devices I've ever had ... I dropped Nokia after 7650 ... had two SE K700i and K800i .... but N900 is just awesome! | 15:49 |
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| ptl | Why can't we have definitive responses? It seems we're just being deceived. Go out and say: "Nor maemo 6 neiter Meego will run on N900. You'll have to buy a new device. Updates will stop at the end of the year." | 15:50 |
| mmarc__ | slang2 exists in maemo5 tree, but not clear, what repository it belongs to. Do you know? | 15:50 |
| ptl | Or say "Yes, we'll help you run Maemo 6 on the N900 but it will be unofficial, since we can't guarantee the update" | 15:50 |
| ptl | either way, please, don't say generic stuff like 'developers move with the users' | 15:50 |
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| dazo | chr83: the device could have parts which would be more open, to be idealistic .... but the platform itself seems to be open enough .... and which other platforms gives you the power to format your own phone into a non-bootable state, requiring reflashing? And you can even reflash it yourself .... | 15:51 |
| Andrewfblack | Stskeeps: which post? | 15:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | ptl: Sorry - it's a fact. | 15:51 |
| ptl | the platform is open, but it seems to not be following linus' kernel tree, either | 15:51 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl: If users stop using devices - so will devs. | 15:51 |
| Stskeeps | Andrewfblack: ah, wasn't to you :) was about the worrying one | 15:51 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl: Point to one thing with an active development community and no users. | 15:52 |
| t_s_o | ptl: its the age old story of marketing vs engineering. the former trives on vagueness, the latter on exactness | 15:52 |
| dazo | chr83: I don't think you'll regret getting an N900 .... it will always be a better device next week .... but I see my N900 to last for at least 18-24 more months :) | 15:52 |
| Andrewfblack | Stskeeps: ok | 15:52 |
| ptl | SpeedEvil: let's say I am tired of Nokia (and Moblin, and Meego, and Maemo personnel) non-responses... They don't help, and I'd rather know with anticipation if I should invest more in this platform or not. | 15:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | ptl: Look at the current state of mer | 15:53 |
| X-Fade | ptl: uses linux-omap, pretty well known tree. | 15:53 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.maemonokian900.com/maemo-news/dual-booting-mer-on-nokia-n900/ | 15:53 |
| t_s_o | and also, never talk about the upcoming product while the existing product its going to replace is in the shelfs, as that can kill the sales of the existing device | 15:53 |
| SpeedEvil | At some point largescale support for the n900 will go away - as users migrate to other devices. | 15:53 |
| ptl | X-Fade: that's not true, even the touchscreen driver was taken off the linux-omap tree after 2.6.29 from what I've read on the mailing lists | 15:53 |
| tybollt | t_s_o: that why they announced meego NOW? :):):) | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Largescale community support I mean. | 15:54 |
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| t_s_o | tybollt: thats a platform, not a hardware product | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | ptl: it was re-introduced actually | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | just not merged yet | 15:54 |
| tybollt | t_s_o: tell that to hundreds of thousands of N900 nerds out there... | 15:54 |
| t_s_o | tybollt: and they have been clear that existing software will be able to run on meego | 15:54 |
| ptl | * PR1.0, PR1.0.1 or PR1.1 on your N900 ---> not PR 1.1.1? | 15:55 |
| t_s_o | tybollt: nerds should know the difference, the joes with a lust for bling however... | 15:55 |
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| chr83 | in my opinion the official "we don't know" answer about meego on n900 means pretty much "no"... but i don't even have to have the newest os generation, i just don't want a device which won't be updated any more maybe a year from now and then still has bugs nad misses features - that's why i wonder how strong the community really is an dhow open the n900 really is... | 15:56 |
| X-Fade | Remember now that development is standardizing on Qt, we can always recompile apps for Maemo 5 etc. | 15:56 |
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| toggles_w | chr83: once nokia stops you move to Mer | 15:57 |
| X-Fade | chr83: No phone will ever be without bugs. And always missing the latest features. | 15:57 |
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| nid0 | the "we dont know" is the only answer youll get until/unless nokia physically have a finalised working running copy of meego running on a production n900. even saying "maybe" would open massive tins of legal worms if they ended up not being able to deliver for any reason. | 15:57 |
| chr83 | of course. but take the iphone for example, it may be far from perfect, but you can still get the newest os version for the oldest over 2 yeaqr old device | 15:57 |
| koala_man | even if all official n900 updates stopped today, I'd still buy it again | 15:57 |
| X-Fade | And nobody knows what MeeGo really is, so until then nobody can promise you anything. | 15:58 |
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| chr83 | yeah i don't need a meego promise, i actually don't acre about the newest os or anything, i just want something which will not be forgotten in the 18 month timeframe | 15:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | chr83: so what will that 'newest os version' buy you? | 15:59 |
| SpeedEvil | 18 months - I think it's safe to say that there will be a community distribution worstcase. | 16:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | 36 months - support on that will probably be dropping away. | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | And much over that, you risk drivers dropping out of the kernel due to not being maintained. | 16:00 |
| ptl | Are you liable for these schedules? :P | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Of course not. | 16:00 |
| ptl | lol | 16:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Based on prior experience with community hardware. | 16:00 |
| nid0 | we're gonna come at you with pitchforks if you're wrong. | 16:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | For $5000, I would attempt to make sure drivers stay in the mainline kernel for 5 years. | 16:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Otherwise - ... | 16:02 |
| chr83 | docscrutinizer: i don't know and as i said i don't need the newest os generation, i just want to make sure that hings like better gmail support in the email client (i heard it's really slow if you have a lot of messages) will be available | 16:02 |
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| nid0 | then you're better going with an iphone, crystal ball doesnt know whether nokia will rewrite the email client | 16:03 |
| chr83 | i alreday have a 3gs but i need a new toy ;) | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | modest is opensource. | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | You can add shit if you want, or convince people to. | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | chr83: let me put it this way: I fnokia needs 12months or more to provide this functionality you're missing, and there was no way to work around that with FOSS apps, then you probably should return your device | 16:04 |
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| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: You shouldn't even have bought it then. | 16:05 |
| sar3th | chr83: i use gmail/imap with a huge load of mails, it's pretty fast | 16:05 |
| nid0 | tbh though the point is more that adding enough to modest to make it anything better than modest effectively means rewriting it. | 16:05 |
| X-Fade | DocScrutinizer: You should buy it if it does for you what you want it to do. | 16:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: there's no way to tell, other than buy and test ;-P | 16:05 |
| chr83 | sar3th: so that has been fixed? good :) | 16:05 |
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| sar3th | i haven't tested with normal pop and not much mails though | 16:06 |
| nid0 | its pretty quick at handling imap folders for me as well, but its actual functionality's chronically limited | 16:06 |
| nid0 | and pop is still bugged until pr1.2 at least | 16:06 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | does anyone here know anything about 'gnome-mount' ? | 16:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | X-Fade: still for things like dialler not accepting USSD codes, or frontcam quality borked, I'd always be willing to give Nokia a chance to fix that. Not in 18 months though. That's been my rationale behind the advice to chr83 | 16:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | actually there's very few such basic flaws I'm aware of | 16:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | and seems Nokia is willing to fix them in reasonable timeframe | 16:10 |
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| nid0 | well there's basically ussd codes, frontcam, ovi connectivity, and arguably mms | 16:11 |
| ptl | very few? | 16:11 |
| * timeless_mbp2 is confused | 16:11 | |
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| ptl | ovi maps is too crude, no support for videocalls and mms, no LEAP on wifi, no dialpad shortcuts, no landscape mode, just to recall from memory | 16:12 |
| ptl | they are not few | 16:12 |
| ptl | at least admit they are more than a few. | 16:13 |
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| ptl | many of them are even | 16:13 |
| ptl | many of them are even 'wontfix' bugs... like the LEAP support | 16:13 |
| sar3th | LEAP? | 16:13 |
| SpeedEvil | ptl: and many users don't care about those | 16:14 |
| nid0 | no portrait mode is arguable at best, this is a device that's obviously designed to be used in landscape for anything other than talking on the phone, if that's a major problem for a user it can easily be chalked up to buying the wrong device. | 16:14 |
| ptl | Yes, a wireless authentication protocol used by about 50% of big businesses. | 16:14 |
| timeless_mbp2 | ptl: 'dialpad shortcuts'? | 16:14 |
| sar3th | oh oky | 16:14 |
| timeless_mbp2 | you can stick a call X onto your home screen | 16:14 |
| timeless_mbp2 | what do you mean 'no landscape mode'? | 16:14 |
| chr83 | oh another thing, is there samba / cifs client and server support available? ported from regular debian i guess? | 16:15 |
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| ptl | timeless_mbp2: I know... but that's not the same (I agree this one is a minor issue) | 16:15 |
| timeless_mbp2 | 99% of apps support landscape | 16:15 |
| ptl | timeless_mbp2: you can't press the shortcut and start calling, you first have to select call or sms | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ptl: so wtf stops you from implementing this LEAP for your device? | 16:15 |
| nid0 | timeless_mbp2, i suspect he meant no portrait mode | 16:15 |
| ptl | DocScrutinizer: it's a patented authentication scheme, I can't program by myself | 16:15 |
| timeless_mbp2 | iirc Blocks is the only app that doesn't support landscape | 16:15 |
| timeless_mbp2 | nid0: then he better spell it right | 16:15 |
| ptl | nid0: yes, thanks for correcting me | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ptl: so probably can't Nokia | 16:15 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | portrait support is being slowly added to apps | 16:16 |
| timeless_mbp2 | a bunch of other apps get portrait in 1.2 | 16:16 |
| timeless_mbp2 | urho is writing the major release notes for that now | 16:16 |
| ptl | I agree that system apps are getting portrair mode support | 16:16 |
| timeless_mbp2 | video call is coming for gtalk in 1.2 | 16:16 |
| timeless_mbp2 | mms is available from a third party | 16:16 |
| timeless_mbp2 | (today) | 16:17 |
| ptl | but wasn't the system itself supposed to facilitate it? | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp2 | but mms was never a promised feature | 16:17 |
| ptl | 1.2 is going out today? | 16:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp2 | and complaining about something we never promised is incredibly stupid | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp2 | the same applies to leap | 16:17 |
| mikkov | isn't video call for gtalk working already? | 16:17 |
| ptl | I don't even use MMS | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp2 | ptl: most people don't waste time writing release notes 10 months in advance | 16:17 |
| ptl | but I am acknowledging that it is a feature that users might want | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp2 | too much time for things to change | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp2 | so it should mean we're talking about <8 weeks :) | 16:17 |
| timeless_mbp2 | (maybe <10 weeks?) | 16:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ptl: might want is BS. It's not a promised feature | 16:18 |
| timeless_mbp2 | users want ~the moon and the stars in the sky, i swear~ | 16:18 |
| timeless_mbp2 | http://www.lyrics007.com/All-4-One%20Lyrics/I%20Swear%20Lyrics.html | 16:18 |
| tybollt | I still consider it a flaw | 16:18 |
| tybollt | no mms is a flaw | 16:18 |
| timeless_mbp2 | no mms is not a flaw | 16:18 |
| ptl | DocScrutinizer: there are some expectations you get even if the producer didn't promise, because they are present in old phones. MMS, videocall are some example | 16:19 |
| ptl | *examples | 16:19 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: it is | 16:19 |
| timeless_mbp2 | the kernel we're using can't support mms properly | 16:19 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: it was in the iphone it is in the n900. | 16:19 |
| ptl | can't support? | 16:19 |
| timeless_mbp2 | so trying to implement it would just have resulted in people complaining about it not working | 16:19 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: fair enough | 16:19 |
| arachnist | mms? i find it hardly useful, since we have "share via service" on the n900 | 16:19 |
| ptl | isn't MMS a application-space-feature? | 16:19 |
| timeless_mbp2 | ptl: the mms network violates certain rules about ip numbering | 16:19 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | no | 16:19 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: My point is I'm not a disgruntled kid talking about promises. :-) | 16:19 |
| ptl | oh | 16:19 |
| timeless_mbp2 | because it violates ip address routing | 16:19 |
| arachnist | ptl: not entierly. it needs a separate network connection | 16:19 |
| arachnist | ptl: and what timeless_mbp2 said | 16:20 |
| timeless_mbp2 | which means you need a hacked networking stack to make it work properly | 16:20 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | symbian happens to have such a stack | 16:20 |
| timeless_mbp2 | i'm not quite sure how apple does it | 16:20 |
| timeless_mbp2 | (symbian uses iirc a deprecated portion of the ipv6 scheme for mms, which is a clever hack, but it's a hack) | 16:21 |
| timeless_mbp2 | a later version of the linux kernel has some support for this disaster, fwiw | 16:21 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | but it still requires some interesting machinations | 16:21 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | because an app that's run as a user is supposed to inherit networking from its parent | 16:21 |
| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: now you're just showing off mate. You know the rest of us have no clue :P | 16:21 |
| arachnist | tybollt: i have a clue. | 16:21 |
| frals | bottom line, dont use mms if you can help it | 16:21 |
| Terje2 | timeless, Symbian supports IP namespaces: different connections have different IP namespaces. Same thing is coming to Linux. | 16:22 |
| timeless_mbp2 | tybollt: sadly i've listened to people describing the problem | 16:22 |
| timeless_mbp2 | Terje1: they used a portion of the ipv6 stuff to do it iirc | 16:22 |
| tybollt | arachnist: mea culpa | 16:22 |
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| tybollt | frals: you may not have a choice (receiving mms) | 16:22 |
| timeless_mbp2 | Terje2: i'm not sure exactly how the linux stuff is going to be implemented | 16:22 |
| timeless_mbp2 | but my impression is that the security portion makes the linux story sad | 16:23 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | roughly it should mean that you have to create a daemon on the other side of the ip namespace stack so that your normal app started by a normal app can use the wrong ip namespace | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: please bear in mind there's other phones out there which don't know to mss | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | mms | 16:23 |
| Terje2 | timeless, I disagree, they did it "the correct way". You don't need IPv6 hacks if you consider the network interface name to be part of the IP address. Same thing is going into Linux kernel. | 16:23 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | 'network interface name to be part of the ip address'? | 16:24 |
| * timeless_mbp2 sighs | 16:24 | |
| tybollt | DocScrutinizer: those phones are then by the same standards: flawed | 16:24 |
| timeless_mbp2 | trying to deal with Finglish is too complicated | 16:24 |
| timeless_mbp2 | or Fingrish | 16:24 |
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| * timeless_mbp2 goes off to write a letter to Nokia House | 16:25 | |
| Terje2 | timeless, I guess end of discussion. | 16:25 |
| timeless_mbp2 | Terje2: yep | 16:25 |
| timeless_mbp2 | come back when you can express yourself :( | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: huh? how's a 8 year old 6210 flawed when it simply has no display or cam or whatever to handle multimedia content at all | 16:25 |
| tybollt | meh | 16:25 |
| timeless_mbp2 | DocScrutinizer++ | 16:25 |
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| Terje2 | timeless, I did. | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: same applies for the 15bucks phone you buy at your local store next week | 16:26 |
| * tybollt hope to $DEITY doc didn't just compare a 6210 to a N900... | 16:26 | |
| timeless_mbp2 | Terje2: _clearly_ | 16:26 |
| timeless_mbp2 | and _understandably_ | 16:26 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | fwiw, a good example of Fingrish is here: http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/03/02/nokia-c5-unveiled/ | 16:27 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | > It also comes packing free walk and drive navigation courtesy of Ovi Maps and is ready for messaging with Nokia Messaging built in. | 16:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: I just say nobody can expect an MMS sent to you is really making it to your display. So you always got an alternative to recieving MMS | 16:27 |
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| timeless_mbp2 | tybollt: how's that line? :) | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: it's by no means a mandatory feature | 16:28 |
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| tybollt | timeless_mbp2: who does this stuff? Can you locate this person and go slap them on the wrist? :) | 16:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: incredible. thanks | 16:38 |
| frals | np | 16:38 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 16:38 |
| timeless | tybollt: i'm looking for another one now.. | 16:39 |
| Arif_ | is new fw out yet? | 16:39 |
| Arif_ | :P | 16:39 |
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| chr83 | well thanks everybody for answering my questions :) | 16:40 |
| tybollt | frals: problem is - there are no LTE enabled phones :) | 16:40 |
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| Andrewfblack | fiferboy: Hey man | 16:41 |
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| fiferboy | Andrewfblack: Hi | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even clear if the network itself is phone-enabled | 16:42 |
| frals | think its data only | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | me too | 16:42 |
| * Arif_ builds a Chinese quality phone with LTE and an analog TV tuner | 16:42 | |
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| tybollt | frals /doc: Isn't it the same thing | 16:42 |
| fiferboy | Andrewfblack: Nothing turning up yet :( | 16:42 |
| tybollt | in LTE everything is packet based - even speach | 16:42 |
| tybollt | so there's potentially no difference | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | tybollt: you need gateway, etc | 16:43 |
| tybollt | ah | 16:43 |
| tybollt | sure | 16:43 |
| tybollt | again | 16:43 |
| tybollt | get a phone on the market - I'm sure Telia'll fix the rest | 16:43 |
| tybollt | (speculation of course) | 16:43 |
| cgoncalves | Hi. I'm including libosso-abook-1.0/libosso-abook/osso-abook-contact.h in my app but getting erros on compile time (http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9698/snapshot1sx.png). I've installed {glib,dbus,gconf}-dev packages and added them to pkg-config. any idea what am I doing wrong? | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | for sure you can use SIP | 16:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's immanent part of LTE specs to have "external" service providers | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | SIP would match there snuggly I guess | 16:46 |
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| Arif_ | when will they actually increase phonecall quality :P | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | who?? | 16:47 |
| Arif_ | whoever makes the standards | 16:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Arif_: If *you* don't increase quality of your calls, nobody else will help out | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 16:48 |
| Arif_ | I don't have anyone to call | 16:48 |
| * Arif_ sobs | 16:48 | |
| Arif_ | I got the cheapest phone plan :D | 16:49 |
| Arif_ | it's like 70 minutes | 16:49 |
| Arif_ | I convinced most people that poking eachother on facebook/msn/skype/twitter is cheaper :) | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | 0900-CALL-ME-NOW!! | 16:49 |
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| Arif_ | you're some expensive person to call! | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | also 911 / 112 always pleased to hear of you :-P | 16:50 |
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| Arif_ | what about 155 | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | those are even for free usually, until you get another kind of bill | 16:51 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 16:51 |
| Arif_ | free | 16:51 |
| * Arif_ like | 16:51 | |
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| sar3th | http://kuvaton.com/browse/14204/apple_products.jpg | 16:53 |
| ptl | hey | 16:54 |
| ptl | is there a procedure I should take for repackaging and porting an app for Maemo 5? | 16:54 |
| toggles_w | optify! | 16:54 |
| ptl | Like, I have not written the app itself - it's exult, a ultima VII engine - but I'd like to recompile and optify it for maemo 5 | 16:54 |
| ptl | yes, yes, I know | 16:55 |
| ptl | but should I try and upload it to maemo-devel? | 16:55 |
| ptl | and btw, are there some general rules/advices on how to optify some app? | 16:55 |
| nid0 | do yourself and testers a huge favour, and optify it first | 16:55 |
| ptl | besides editting hardcoded sections and editting the configure script | 16:56 |
| ptl | ok | 16:56 |
| mikkov | pt1: echo auto > debian/optify | 16:56 |
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| * DocScrutinizer prays there'll be a sane way to deoptify automatically, once that incredible bullshit is fixed for good | 16:58 | |
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| lcuk | well if he extent of your package changes are to call maemo-optify in the package it should be trivial to build for another system | 16:59 |
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| lcuk | however, if you made extra modifications | 16:59 |
| * DocScrutinizer anticipates optification forever, as it would break old apps to migrate to a sane partitioning | 16:59 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | and you know my opinion about that, apt to the rescue | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 17:01 |
| infobot | somebody said optification was a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space | 17:01 |
| mmarc__ | guys, could you please help to clarify, how to add http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/ as repository? | 17:01 |
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| andre__ | mmarc__, what for? should be there in App Manager by default... | 17:08 |
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| mmarc__ | there is slang2 in maemo5, but I can't find it with apt-cache, that should mean something is not enought with repos screwed | 17:09 |
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| mikkov | mmarc__: there isn't slang2 | 17:10 |
| mmarc__ | there is: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/s/slang2/ | 17:11 |
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| mmarc__ | The question is how to add this path to local repositories records. | 17:11 |
| mikkov | crap, yeah it's in the tools repo (libslang2) | 17:11 |
| mmarc__ | tools? | 17:12 |
| mikkov | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Installation | 17:12 |
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| Zahra | Is it possible to dual bood maemo with another OS on N900? | 17:14 |
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| mmarc__ | after adding some repos my App manager is malfunctioning, showing empty catalogues list :( | 17:14 |
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| ptl | Zahra: yeah, Mer and Ubuntu 9.04, search on youtube and you'll see | 17:17 |
| ptl | Anti-N900? | 17:18 |
| Zahra | ptl: & is it possible with neopwn too? | 17:18 |
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| ptl | neopwn? I don't know what's neopwn | 17:18 |
| ptl | I googled for it... interesting concept | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: aiui maemo-optify should be a postinstall script task, and probably it should query some env to decide whether to optify or not | 17:19 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, yeah look at latest commits | 17:20 |
| lcuk | theres integration work ongoin with the upstart guys to handle lots of cases | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-)) | 17:21 |
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| trupheenix | any one got a solution to sync and backup my contacts on N900? | 17:50 |
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| Lynoure | trupheenix: what's the problem? I did successfully sync my contacts from my old phone. And I think backing up to the file also worked. | 17:52 |
| trupheenix | Lynoure, i have a Nokia 3500 Classic which didn't sync with my N900. | 17:53 |
| trupheenix | Lynoure, right now I just want to sync my N900 with Ovi Contacts | 17:53 |
| Lynoure | Haven't tried with Ovi | 17:53 |
| trupheenix | Lynoure, so that I can keep an online backup | 17:53 |
| Lynoure | just with the E51 I used to have. | 17:53 |
| trupheenix | Lynoure, which i can eventually use with every other phone that comes up | 17:53 |
| Lynoure | So, unfortunately no further ideas on this from me. | 17:55 |
| trupheenix | Lynoure, ok | 17:55 |
| trupheenix | anyone know if N900 works with Ovi? | 17:55 |
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| mmarc__ | are the maemo5 freemantle tools installed somewhere outside the root paths? | 17:57 |
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| mmarc__ | hm, no | 17:58 |
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| trupheenix | hmmm i guess there is NO solution :) | 18:02 |
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| pupnik_ | i love you nokia but this 5-6 hour battery life has to improve next time | 18:04 |
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| m33go | hi people. could help me? | 18:05 |
| m33go | i need a help with the bash shell on maemo | 18:05 |
| pupnik_ | hi m33go any luck? | 18:05 |
| pupnik_ | try a simple command first. chdir to where you want | 18:06 |
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| m33go | :) hi,,, i need or a link or a help to create a script that says press one to /media/mmc1/ press 2 to /home/user/mydocs/ press 3 ecc eccc | 18:06 |
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| m33go | the pressing value must change the directory... it has to execute cd /ecc | 18:07 |
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| m33go | :) hi,,, i need or a link or a help to create a script that says press one to /media/mmc1/ press 2 to /home/user/mydocs/ press 3 ecc eccc by key pressing value helpppppppp | 18:09 |
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| trupheenix | m33go what u want to do? | 18:11 |
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| ormiret | m33go: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO.html though I don't think the default shell is bash the simple stuff should be the same | 18:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.faqs.org/docs/bashman/bashref_toc.html | 18:12 |
| m33go | i want to create a keypressing value that works like cd /media/mmc/ ( pressing 1 ) ec | 18:12 |
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| m33go | i have the guide, i just need about that command! can i use more than one alias command? | 18:13 |
| trupheenix | m33go why u writing a shell program for this? u would need to write an app for this. | 18:14 |
| m33go | <trupheenix>i have the guide, i just need about that command! can i use more than one alias command? | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course, you can have aliases until you forget how much they actually are | 18:14 |
| m33go | yes i'm writing an app | 18:14 |
| m33go | i need about it | 18:14 |
| trupheenix | m33go there is more to it than a shell command i guess... | 18:15 |
| m33go | yes.... but i'm using the shell to test y app | 18:15 |
| m33go | my app | 18:15 |
| trupheenix | m33go please specify what u trying to do exactly | 18:16 |
| m33go | thank u docsrutinizer | 18:16 |
| trupheenix | m33go then i can sugges | 18:16 |
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| m33go | ummm soo... i have to see on the xterm >> PRESS 1 to save on MMC, Press 2 to save on Mydocs, Press 3 to see the infos | 18:17 |
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| trupheenix | m33go what u want to save? | 18:18 |
| pupnik | second n900 crash in 20 minutes | 18:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ouch | 18:18 |
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| m33go | truphenix its a secret | 18:18 |
| ormiret | m33go: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO-9.html#ss9.1 | 18:19 |
| RST38h | pupnik:what was it? | 18:19 |
| m33go | i cant say what i've got to save. it 'll be avaiable on repos soon | 18:19 |
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| pupnik | i cant recall how to check bootreason | 18:20 |
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| pupnik | fishmemory is usually blank. nice results from my CT scan today though. bleeding in brain has cleared | 18:21 |
| SpeedEvil | espeak `cat /proc/bootreason` | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | m33go: see "read" (http://www.faqs.org/docs/bashman/bashref_55.html#SEC55) cmd, and "case" (http://www.faqs.org/docs/bashman/bashref_20.html#SEC20) construct | 18:21 |
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| pupnik | cat /proc/bootreason | 18:21 |
| pupnik | sw_rst | 18:21 |
| pupnik | hmm oh dear | 18:22 |
| pupnik | maybe it is time for new wifi router | 18:22 |
| RST38h | that was me! | 18:22 |
| m33go | thanks a lot bye people see you soon | 18:23 |
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| a-saint | hello anyone can help me with maemo on N900 | 19:10 |
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| pronto | depends | 19:11 |
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| mmarc__ | configure on maemo reports: "configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs". That's strange: why do we need to add --host=armel like for cross-compiling? | 19:13 |
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| mmarc__ | gcc compiler is natively installed on N900 | 19:13 |
| a-saint | pronto Ibought the n900 recently in my area there's a sim service that i can call to know my credit calls and some other services by typing *XXX# now whenever i do that, it says wrong number and don't dial | 19:14 |
| mmarc__ | *XXX# is not working on N900 | 19:14 |
| pronto | O_o i have no idea, check the forums/wiki | 19:14 |
| pronto | http://maemo.org | 19:14 |
| SpeedEvil | a-saint: look at ussd-widget | 19:15 |
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| a-saint | SpeedEvil something i should download? | 19:15 |
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| a-saint | now 2 more questions what's the sudo pass and is there an flv player i could download | 19:18 |
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| Trizt | a-saint; open the file browser, click on the flv file and the built in media player will play it (for some reason it don't see flv files), or you could download kmplayer | 19:19 |
| Trizt | a-saint: if you installed the rootsh package, then it's "sudo gainroot" | 19:21 |
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| a-saint | Trizt ok thanks but what about the ussd-widget us it something i should download? | 19:24 |
| Trizt | a-saint; I don't know, I haven't used it. But if it's not right, just uninstall it | 19:24 |
| a-saint | Trizt ok thanks for your support | 19:25 |
| a-saint | and for all others | 19:25 |
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| mgedmin | oh dear, changing my feed url flooded the planet :( | 19:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/04/14/stolen_mobile_rings_in_body/ | 19:47 |
| uhsf | feed url change is indeed one thing that was overlooked in early design | 19:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/03/03/orange_backs_meego/ | 19:52 |
| SpeedEvil | more on-topic | 19:52 |
| SpeedEvil | Or less, I suppose. | 19:52 |
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| shrdlu- | I was in the street today with my N900, I needed to unzip a file and couldn't do it. I was pretty disappointed with that. But it was probably a linuxfail more than anything | 19:53 |
| SpeedEvil | apt-get install unzip | 19:54 |
| shrdlu- | I don't think I have that set up properly | 19:54 |
| shrdlu- | I couldn't get it via that | 19:54 |
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| corecode | huh? | 20:10 |
| corecode | well, file manager support for zip would be nice | 20:10 |
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| MohammadAG | there's a plugin for it afaik | 20:10 |
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| MohammadAG | just unzips the file when you click on it | 20:10 |
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| MohammadAG | failed at dual booting mer for the 5th time, pointer shows up, then the N900 shuts down :/ | 20:12 |
| Arif_ | stay with maemo 5 | 20:12 |
| Arif_ | :P | 20:12 |
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| MohammadAG | Arif_, I have maemo 5 (obviously), but I really want to try mer | 20:13 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 20:14 |
| Arif_ | what are the advantages over M5? | 20:14 |
| zaheerm | fully free software | 20:14 |
| Arif_ | ... | 20:14 |
| zaheerm | s/fully/mostly/ | 20:14 |
| infobot | zaheerm meant: mostly free software | 20:14 |
| Arif_ | something thats of real use | 20:14 |
| Arif_ | :P | 20:14 |
| MohammadAG | no closed stuff, apart from the wifi drivers | 20:14 |
| zaheerm | Arif_, it runs windows faster than my desktop | 20:15 |
| Arif_ | lol | 20:15 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 20:15 |
| Arif_ | you should stop using a 33Mhz Pentium desktop! | 20:15 |
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| Arif_ | maybe I should try mer too | 20:15 |
| MohammadAG | 1.60GHz* | 20:15 |
| Arif_ | the media player is a pos on M5 | 20:16 |
| MohammadAG | Arif_, just install a different media player | 20:16 |
| Arif_ | I tried SiB and KMplayer | 20:16 |
| MohammadAG | Canola / Media Box / mplayer (playing songs through terminal is kind of weird though) | 20:16 |
| Arif_ | KMPlayer is useful for streaming | 20:16 |
| Arif_ | :D | 20:17 |
| Arif_ | Canola I could try | 20:17 |
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| MohammadAG | I like the default media player really | 20:17 |
| Arif_ | I don't like that it crashes when I search :( | 20:17 |
| Arif_ | apparently its fixed though | 20:17 |
| Arif_ | I'm waiting for the new fw | 20:17 |
| MohammadAG | no crashes here | 20:18 |
| MohammadAG | how large is your col.? | 20:18 |
| nid0 | ditto, the much more important fix is upnp streaming not being borked any more | 20:18 |
| Arif_ | oh, it happens with 3 songs too | 20:18 |
| Arif_ | you just need the right tags :P | 20:18 |
| MohammadAG | lol, it's good for me | 20:19 |
| Arif_ | Apparently media player is racist | 20:19 |
| Arif_ | it doesn't like Turkish characters | 20:19 |
| MohammadAG | maemo doesn't boot in R&D mode, thinking about reflashing | 20:19 |
| MohammadAG | spoke too soon, the bubbles showed up | 20:19 |
| MohammadAG | spoke too soon again, it shut down on the boot video | 20:19 |
| Arif_ | XD | 20:20 |
| MohammadAG | bubbles... | 20:20 |
| MohammadAG | boot video | 20:20 |
| Arif_ | buttercup! | 20:20 |
| MohammadAG | **** | 20:20 |
| Arif_ | IT'S THE POWERPUFF GIRLS! | 20:20 |
| MohammadAG | someone has a sense of humor atm :p | 20:21 |
| Arif_ | or just bored | 20:21 |
| MohammadAG | umm | 20:21 |
| MohammadAG | what's this R&D flag force-power-key | 20:22 |
| MohammadAG | it's not in the wiki | 20:22 |
| MohammadAG | no-charging neither is this | 20:22 |
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| villager | Arif_: I'm guessing one advantage of Mer is that the core software doesn't have to be years old like in maemo 5, which is based on a really old debian | 20:22 |
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| Arif_ | villager, what I was thinking of is that you don't have to wait for Nokia to release an update 6 months after you report a bug xD | 20:24 |
| villager | Arif_: that too | 20:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman's ruling days are at an end! | 20:24 |
| MohammadAG | ukraine prime minister? | 20:24 |
| MohammadAG | nvm | 20:25 |
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| Arif_ | * A Linux installation on your PC. | 20:25 |
| Arif_ | nothanks | 20:26 |
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| villager | Arif_: presumably, on Mer, you can also more easily install stuff directly from debian-armel (or ubuntu-armel) | 20:27 |
| newbie005 | does anyone know if it's possible to play an internet radio song through the n900 streamed out to an FM, thus giving my car internet radio? | 20:27 |
| Arif_ | apparently I need a desktop linux | 20:27 |
| Arif_ | no thanks :D | 20:27 |
| Arif_ | newbie005, yes | 20:27 |
| newbie005 | Arif_ out of the box or do I need soemthign special? | 20:28 |
| Arif_ | out of the box | 20:28 |
| newbie005 | wow | 20:28 |
| newbie005 | (wow as usual) | 20:28 |
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| MohammadAG | you can install fm-boost to boost the fmtx signal | 20:28 |
| newbie005 | the range? | 20:28 |
| MohammadAG | might be needed in some cars, depending on the antenna location | 20:28 |
| Arif_ | you might want to install the FM transmitter widget+fm boost | 20:28 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 20:28 |
| newbie005 | good to know | 20:29 |
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| MohammadAG | Arif_, he only needs fm-boost to boost the signal | 20:30 |
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| MohammadAG | thw widget is for turning it on/off + boosting the signal | 20:30 |
| ShadowJK | the better the car radio, the shorter the range of n900's transmitter | 20:30 |
| Arif_ | it makes it easier to use though =} | 20:30 |
| MohammadAG | newbie005, if it works without fm-boost keep it that way, as it may drain your battery faster | 20:30 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, err? | 20:30 |
| newbie005 | I'm very happy with my n900 purchase, any news on the n910 ? | 20:31 |
| ShadowJK | because better radios are better shielded | 20:31 |
| Arif_ | how better its isolated? :P | 20:31 |
| SpeedEvil | villager: core software being old can be a plus. | 20:31 |
| Arif_ | newbie005, I hope it makes tea... | 20:31 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, oh | 20:32 |
| Arif_ | ={ | 20:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | With exceptions - old software tends to use less RAM. | 20:32 |
| villager | SpeedEvil: well, I suppose... | 20:32 |
| ShadowJK | while crap radios are poorly shielded and n900's signal will go straight to radio instead of having to first exit car and then be picked up by the car's outside antenna | 20:32 |
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| Arif_ | newbie005, the FM transmitter even sends the artist/song details over RDS! :P | 20:33 |
| villager | SpeedEvil: nokia probably saved more ram by using busybox than by keeping the rest of the software old though | 20:33 |
| SpeedEvil | The range is quite poor - by design. Legalities means it has to be. | 20:34 |
| Arif_ | SpeedEvil, its better than the Chinese crap you can buy | 20:34 |
| Arif_ | for some odd reason | 20:34 |
| MohammadAG | It's acceptable with fm-boost | 20:34 |
| trupheenix | how do i sync my n900 with OVI Contacts and Calendar? | 20:34 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Radio_Transmitter links to some real-world tests carried out by the UK | 20:34 |
| MohammadAG | trupheenix, you don't (or can't :)) | 20:34 |
| SpeedEvil | Arif_: Or much, much worse - if the chinese stuff breaks limits. | 20:34 |
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| trupheenix | MohammadAG, not funny... | 20:35 |
| villager | trupheenix: some people are working on it | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG | trupheenix, seriously, you can't | 20:35 |
| Arif_ | SpeedEvil, I'm looking for one of those... | 20:35 |
| trupheenix | villager, hmmm can i help? | 20:35 |
| newbie005 | Arif_: wow | 20:35 |
| Arif_ | I bought a few from DX but they all suck =D | 20:35 |
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| MohammadAG | trupheenix, I synced an N73 with ovi then transferred the data to the N900 | 20:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Arif_: try attaching an antenna | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG | then I dumped ovi | 20:35 |
| Arif_ | to the transmitter? :P | 20:36 |
| RST38h | <yawn> | 20:36 |
| lindi- | villager: busybox saves RAM yes. one day I finally managed to reproduce a very rare bug only to notice that busybox's syslog truncates log lines longer than 255 characters and the interesting part of the bug I was hunting was conveniently not visible in log :) | 20:36 |
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| villager | trupheenix: only if you're a developer I think... there's a Chen Congwu on the syncevolution mailing list that seems to be working on it, from what I can tell | 20:36 |
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| trupheenix | villager, ok | 20:37 |
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| villager | trupheenix: currently you can sync n900 with many other services though... | 20:38 |
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| * Pillum wants new updates for his N900 | 20:38 | |
| trupheenix | villager, like? | 20:38 |
| trupheenix | villager, how? | 20:38 |
| trupheenix | villager, i tried Google Sync it failed | 20:38 |
| villager | trupheenix: myFunambol, ScheduleWorld... | 20:38 |
| villager | trupheenix: google sync as in contacts? | 20:39 |
| trupheenix | villager, yea | 20:40 |
| villager | trupheenix: hmm, I thought that worked... (calendar is not available through google sync though) | 20:40 |
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| shrdlu- | Oh, ok, I didn't have the devel packages enabled | 20:43 |
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| Arif_ | boo | 20:45 |
| Arif_ | why doesn't QtIrrecco never work for me | 20:45 |
| Arif_ | ;( | 20:45 |
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| RST38h | because it is broken? | 20:47 |
| Arif_ | someone fix it | 20:48 |
| Arif_ | :P | 20:48 |
| Arif_ | I added a remote and all the buttons but nothing happens when I poke them... | 20:48 |
| RST38h | Fix it yourself, why | 20:49 |
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| Arif_ | I don't know how to | 20:49 |
| Arif_ | =} | 20:49 |
| RST38h | Well, learn | 20:49 |
| Arif_ | I'm much better at complaining | 20:49 |
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| RST38h | Yes, we can all see that | 20:49 |
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| trupheenix | i blacked out my office's radios today using my N900 :) | 20:51 |
| trupheenix | it's pretty powerful | 20:51 |
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| Arif_ | what were you playing? | 20:52 |
| Arif_ | ;D | 20:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the shift gong | 20:57 |
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| ptl | the funny thing about this channel is that there is talk on every time of the day | 20:58 |
| ptl | prolly due to the multiple timezone public | 20:58 |
| Arif_ | ......and thenit went quiet :D | 20:58 |
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| trupheenix | Arif_ i was playing bollywood tracks :) | 21:00 |
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| Arif_ | hehe | 21:00 |
| Arif_ | were people like...lolwut? | 21:00 |
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| trupheenix | Arif_, yea... | 21:00 |
| trupheenix | Arif_, pretty much... | 21:01 |
| trupheenix | Arif_, i didn't just play the tracks... i skipped through them to make a point :) | 21:01 |
| Arif_ | :) | 21:01 |
| congerro | hello. is it possible to build a home applet with clutter in maemo5? | 21:01 |
| trupheenix | Arif_, but i don't know what use would i have for an FM transmitter. | 21:01 |
| Arif_ | well | 21:02 |
| Arif_ | the built in speakers suck | 21:02 |
| Arif_ | so you can use the fm transmitter to actually listen to your music | 21:02 |
| Arif_ | =} | 21:02 |
| trupheenix | Arif_, u could also use bluetooth speakers. | 21:02 |
| trupheenix | Arif_, the built in speakers are quite impressive. | 21:02 |
| Arif_ | not when you had a N95 and 5800 before ;) | 21:03 |
| ShadowJK | or N810 | 21:03 |
| Arif_ | no experience with that | 21:03 |
| Arif_ | trupheenix, will you donate me some BT speakers? :D | 21:03 |
| trupheenix | Arif_ there are so many out there on the market | 21:04 |
| trupheenix | Arif_ VU makes pretty good ones. | 21:04 |
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| * Arif_ is planning on buying a new monitor first | 21:10 | |
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| Arif_ | wow | 21:13 |
| Arif_ | 32" TVs are cheaper than monitors | 21:13 |
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| auke | I paid 1300USD for mine (I have 2) over 2-3 years ago | 21:13 |
| auke | 30" monitors | 21:13 |
| auke | well over the price of TV's atm | 21:14 |
| auke | but then again, those do not do 2560x1600 resolution :) | 21:14 |
| Arif_ | 30" is 800+ EUR currently | 21:14 |
| Arif_ | 32" TVs are 400-600 | 21:14 |
| Arif_ | they're both 1080p | 21:15 |
| Arif_ | lol | 21:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Arif_, um, no they aren't. | 21:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Arif_, most 32" TVs in the 400-600 range are 720p. | 21:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Arif_, and 30" monitors are usually 2560 x 1600 | 21:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, no, they're not really comparable. | 21:18 |
| Arif_ | the specs dont say so... | 21:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9179LL/A | 21:18 |
| Arif_ | the 2560x1600 ones are more expensive | 21:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/monitors/topics/en/monitor_3007wfp?c=us&l=en | 21:18 |
| Arif_ | 21:18 | |
| Arif_ | Sony Bravia KDL-32EX500 | 21:19 |
| * arachnist 'd love a 2560x1600 S-PVA 30" screen | 21:19 | |
| Arif_ | is €400 for example | 21:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, Euros. . . . | 21:19 |
| mece | asdf | 21:19 |
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| auke | S-PVA? | 21:20 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 21:20 |
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| Arif_ | you're right ont he resolution though | 21:20 |
| Arif_ | most hare 2560x1600 | 21:20 |
| Arif_ | cheapest one is €800 something though ;( | 21:20 |
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| auke | sounds about right... still cheaper than my original 1300USD | 21:21 |
| Arif_ | I'll give up a few pixels for half the price | 21:21 |
| Arif_ | :) | 21:21 |
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| arachnist | Arif_: cheap screens are tft tn. tft tn sucks ;? | 21:29 |
| arachnist | ;/ | 21:29 |
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| Arif_ | that's why the prices are so differnet maybe :( | 21:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I just wish Samsung wouldn't insist on discontinuing all of their good displays. | 21:33 |
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| LiraNuna | win 2 | 21:37 |
| LiraNuna | whoops | 21:37 |
| Arif_ | =P | 21:37 |
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| * Arif_ installs Windows 2.0 on LiraNuna's N900 | 21:37 | |
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| sar3th | lol | 21:39 |
| sar3th | anyone got navit to run? | 21:39 |
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| sar3th | well, it seems i killed everyone :P | 21:43 |
| Arif_ | shh | 21:43 |
| Arif_ | navigation is a touchy subject of the N900 owners | 21:44 |
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| Arif_ | :P | 21:44 |
| matthew- | Any1 used n900 as an Audio Device via bluetooth ? | 21:44 |
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| sar3th | not yet matthew- | 21:44 |
| sar3th | Arif_: yeah, that's why i'm seeking alternatives to ovi maps | 21:44 |
| matthew- | :/ | 21:44 |
| sar3th | or however they wanna call it | 21:44 |
| matthew- | well it's got the option | 21:44 |
| matthew- | but it doesnt give me any sounds ;d | 21:44 |
| matthew- | lol | 21:44 |
| Arif_ | Try Sygic! | 21:45 |
| sar3th | matthew-: want me to see if i can find my old bluetooth headset? | 21:45 |
| Arif_ | it was released begin January! | 21:45 |
| Arif_ | ....oh wait | 21:45 |
| matthew- | sar3th: no, i mean | 21:45 |
| matthew- | sar3th: i play something on my MAC | 21:45 |
| matthew- | and the sound comes from N900 | 21:45 |
| ptl | sar3th: tried mapper? | 21:45 |
| ptl | installing maps on navit is kinda cumbersome | 21:45 |
| * Arif_ eyes matthew- if he's allright | 21:46 | |
| sar3th | ptl: where to download that? :O | 21:46 |
| lindi- | real people generate their own navit maps with osm2navit :) | 21:46 |
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| Arif_ | normal people download maps made available by others! | 21:47 |
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| Arkenoi | Something is wrong with my phone - UI becomes almost non-responsive for no apparent reason :-( and i cannot check why does it happen as i cannot even start xterm until it ends :-( | 21:50 |
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| Imrahil | hi | 21:50 |
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| Imrahil | I have a problem with my N900 connecting to my wireless router I use as a access point, I get the connection it accepts the IP adress, but I can't ping anything, only the router itself. A Laptop connected to the same router has no problems | 21:51 |
| Arif_ | Arkenoi, CTRL+SHIFT+X? | 21:52 |
| sar3th | Imrahil: check your resolv.conf | 21:52 |
| sar3th | add line: nameserver <your router's ip goes here> | 21:53 |
| Arkenoi | arif: it takes forever to start :-( when i manage to run top at least there is nothing suspicious except high load average :-( | 21:53 |
| Arif_ | aw | 21:53 |
| Arif_ | in doubt, format =D | 21:54 |
| sar3th | lol | 21:54 |
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| sar3th | meeeh | 21:54 |
| sar3th | i want qemu86 to work >:O | 21:54 |
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| Arkenoi | the previous reason i tracked down was rss feed handler for MicroB, it increased browser CPU consumption to infinity | 21:55 |
| Arkenoi | but now i removed it | 21:55 |
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| Imrahil | uhm, sar3th: I think there was a misunderstanding, I can't even ping my regular router! | 21:57 |
| Imrahil | not even DHCP works | 21:57 |
| Imrahil | it's almost as if there is no route at all | 21:57 |
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| sar3th | :E | 21:58 |
| sar3th | tried ifconfig? | 21:58 |
| Arif_ | meh | 21:58 |
| Arif_ | I need to stop dropping my phone so much | 21:58 |
| sar3th | Arif_: start throwing! use n900fly to set a new record | 21:59 |
| Arif_ | if I throw it I won't be able to see the results :P | 21:59 |
| Imrahil | well, ifconfig shows me the correct output as far as I can say | 21:59 |
| MohammadAG_ | Arif_, install x11vnc before you throw it | 21:59 |
| Arif_ | good idea! | 22:00 |
| sar3th | lol | 22:00 |
| MohammadAG_ | start recording, in case something wrong happens after landing | 22:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: that's why I always have a root xterm running :-P | 22:18 |
| Arif_ | meh | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | though, when not even top shows anything bad, I dunno either | 22:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: lol. I just thought about creating some wiki shit. Then I realized you did this in December | 22:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | Feel free to add bits I missed. | 22:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'll do that. For now I fixed a small oops | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | for the big story I need good light, a beer, and a torx ;-P | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | as that friggin schematics are missing component names for no sane rationale | 22:25 |
| * DocScrutinizer hopes Nokia refrained from idiotic removal of chip name printings | 22:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | on the phy components | 22:26 |
| SpeedEvil | chip names? | 22:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah - from when chips were big enough to see unaided. | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, add a loupe to the above listed set of tools | 22:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | duh, and a decent DVM. I don't buy the missing-ID | 22:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anybody a clue why USB VBUS +5V power rail is called "**Video** Bus" (by TI at least) ? | 22:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ^^^ | 22:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | I would guess acronym dictionary problems | 22:56 |
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| ptl | there are so many great apps and games that can be ported to N900... gnumeric, bos wars, exult, dia... hope in time they get on the repositories | 23:05 |
| ptl | as soon as I get time for that, I'll try doing it myself. | 23:05 |
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| peaceable | wow, nice to see so many users... okay, i am searching for a solution to compile a little c++ program, but also i can install gcc-base i do not understand how to compile code.... can you please give me an hint? | 23:06 |
| peaceable | also=although sorry | 23:06 |
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| mgj | I'm having some trouble installing the maemo SDK. I get a "Scratchbox login found but not executable by user" - I have already added my user to the sbox group and started a new terminal after doing so. Any ideas? | 23:10 |
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| tank-man | does the "groups" command say your in that group? | 23:12 |
| mgj | hmm actually it doesn't. Something must've went wrong using the script to add the user | 23:13 |
| tank-man | maybe you need to actually log out first | 23:14 |
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| mgj | maybe | 23:16 |
| mgj | I did need that, thanks | 23:17 |
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| tank-man | have fun compiling now :) | 23:17 |
| mgj | heh, cheers | 23:18 |
| mgj | maemo is really picky with its requirements =S | 23:18 |
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| * Arif_ puts PR1.2 in the middle of #maemo and hides | 23:18 | |
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| mgj | Say i have a Java SWT application.... it should be able to pretty much run on the nokia n810 right away yeah? It will look like shit ofcourse, but it should be able to run? | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | um | 23:22 |
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| Arif_ | what? | 23:22 |
| Arif_ | :d | 23:22 |
| ShadowJK | are you aware that Nokia N810 comes with no java support? | 23:22 |
| mgj | i'm not aware of that, no | 23:22 |
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| mgj | Is there Java available for the N810 ? | 23:24 |
| mgj | Yes. | 23:24 |
| mgj | from the N810 faq | 23:24 |
| mgj | but i should read more specs before asking questions here, sorry | 23:24 |
| ShadowJK | well, "available" means different things to different people | 23:24 |
| ShadowJK | is it available in a easyily installable form for end-users? no | 23:25 |
| mgj | it looks pretty straight forward to me | 23:26 |
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| mgj | but then again, i havent reached the point where i can actually try it yet | 23:26 |
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| mgj | i'll probably be surprised =P | 23:26 |
| ShadowJK | can a developer or poweruser obtain and install a java encironment on his own n810? the answer for that is more positive :) | 23:26 |
| mgj | yey =D | 23:27 |
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| arachnist | hm | 23:36 |
| arachnist | i must say, i'm impressed with support for bluetooth headphones in n900 | 23:36 |
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| Arif_ | arachnist, how exactly :P | 23:43 |
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| * n00bmonk3y waves | 23:49 | |
| * SpeedEvil particles. | 23:50 | |
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| * Arif_ yawns | 23:51 | |
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| arachnist | Arif_: well... it works, as opposed windows pc last time i tried | 23:54 |
| arachnist | Arif_: and even avrcp works | 23:55 |
| * Arif_ blinks | 23:55 | |
| Arif_ | find me a phone that doesn't do that ;P | 23:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | do what? | 23:56 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=287 | 23:57 |
| Arif_ | bluetooth headset+button controls :P | 23:57 |
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| * Arif_ waits for someone to post a chinese phone | 23:57 | |
| SpeedEvil | see above | 23:57 |
| Arif_ | that'll work too | 23:57 |
| Arif_ | :D | 23:57 |
| Arif_ | does it have 3G? | 23:58 |
| SpeedEvil | no. | 23:58 |
| Arif_ | :( | 23:58 |
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| Arif_ | it's a bit pricey isn't it | 23:59 |
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