IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2010-03-02

maemohow come i have a woderfl mobile with an open source & a front facing cam & i can't make a video call with it00:00
timeless_mbpwould you rather *not* have the phone?00:00
timeless_mbpyou could wait another 12 months for the phone to have video support00:00
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lcukhey, thats a great idea maemo00:00
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timeless_mbpor… since the phone has gstreamer and friends00:01
javispedrowhat idea, the "mobile with an open source" idea?00:01
maemosurely i couldn't wait00:01
timeless_mbpyou could write your own software00:01
lcukmaemo, where can i download your app?00:01
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maemoi know that the phone is brilliant, but it took them too much tme to prepare fir the video support00:02
lcukmaemo, the phone has a cpu in it with an instruction set capable of trillions of combinations, being open source does not mean every single combination will be available at a single point in time00:03
maemoi know00:03
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maemoyou are right00:03
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fralsmaemo: start coding if you want video call ;-)00:03
lcukhave you seen any other open source video phone software around to try porting?00:04
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maemoif i can, you wouldon't find me here asking about it00:04
timeless_mbplcuk: speaking of which, have you heard the trail of tears relating to certain instruction sets?00:04
lcuknot yet, but im sure i am about to ;)00:04
maemofrals, why don't you code for us all00:05
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lcukmaemo, i believe we will have all the right kinds of apps on the n900 and beyond00:05
fralsmaemo: sorry, im busy getting the mms support in :(00:05
lcukfrals is making mms00:05
maemoi'll jus wait till they finish it00:05
lcukfrals has a flightpath planned!00:05
Corsachmhm, I' going to us for ~3 weeks, would someone recommend a data plan without contract for n900?00:06
maemoabout the mms00:06
maemocan you tell me how to set the network settings?00:06
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timeless_mbpyou kinda need to install frals's software ...00:06
lcukis there any rumblings about autmatic detection yet00:07
lcukso people dont have to mess, or do we need larger samples00:07
lcukfrom the isps00:07
lcukor is it still some black magic settings needed download from isp00:07
lcukfrom the device itself00:07
ShadowJKmine sends me wap settings through sms regulary00:08
maemoso, i have to set a new Apn from fApn?00:08
fralsShadowJK: downside with that is only the wap/internet settings are saved, the rest are discarded :<00:08
ShadowJKif I'd accept them my n900 would no longer be able to surf the web00:09
lcukfrals, in the same way you intercept a mms initiation thingy, can you do the same with the settings?00:09
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fralsmaemo: most likely yes00:09
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timeless_mbpthe fact that mms ip ranges are potentially incompatible w/ everything else is really fun00:09
fralslcuk: not sure actually, not had time to look at it00:09
fralstimeless_mbp: yes, it makes for superduper mega fun when trying to workaround it :(00:10
maemofrals that's not fair00:10
maemonot egytian settings for the mms ?00:10
lcukfrals, would that be something you might be able to open up for people to investigate on your behalf00:10
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fralslcuk: yeah, anyone could do it, probably just need to eavesdrop on dbus when getting settings sent in the best case00:11
fralslcuk: they might even get sent as sms push and then one could intercept them in wappushd00:11
fralswhichd be pretty good as well00:12
fralsnot really sure how those settings are sent out00:12
lcukok, if i manage to speak to the person i need ill put you two in contact00:12
fralsmaemo: well, get the settings from your operators homepage then :)00:12
maemofralshow long would it take to finish the mms app.00:12
fralsmaemo: the wiki only contains what other users have put there00:12
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fralsmaemo: impossible to say, im afraid00:13
maemofrals are you always available here?00:13
fralsuh, depends on what you mean by available, but i got my client on pretty much 24/700:14
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fralsif you got questions regarding fmms you should ask them at
maemoso whenever i need you i'll find you :)00:14
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fralsim subscribed to that thread so i get a mail whenever someone replies and i do my best to answer stuff there00:15
fralslcuk: great :)00:15
maemothanks men00:15
maemohow old are you by the way00:16
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maemoi'm really pleased to meet you00:16
fralshappy to help :)00:17
javispedrowhy, why, oh why does debhelper try to do the dh_auto_test when cross building a package.00:17
pupniki am too stupid for all that crap javispedro00:18
fralspackaging is well beyond me as well00:18
pupniksoon i restart my own repo00:18
pupnikor submit to frals repo00:19
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* frals scratches head00:19
fralsi got a repo?00:19
pupniki do00:19
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arachnistwhy did i read "eat free wood"? ;)00:24
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AntiXpucThi there00:27
AntiXpucTi've problems with dnsmasq ;(00:27
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ShadowJKfrals: i think my operator only sends thr wap settings, trying to sabotage my n90000:30
fralsShadowJK: haha00:30
javispedrowhenever I swap my sim and put it into my N900 again, they always send me an SMS message telling me "online games have been disabled"00:31
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ShadowJKlike, with my e75 i get wap, mms, internet, presence, ptt, video sharing, and SIP Voip settings sent in sms00:31
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javispedroso I guess yes :)00:31
cehtehAntiXpucT: what problems?00:32
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AntiXpucTcehteh, it ignoring nameservers form resolv-file's :(00:32
cehtehwhich resolv file?00:33
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AntiXpucTi think, that all of it ;)00:33
cehtehhup it00:33
cehtehit uses the 'newest' one then00:33
AntiXpucTthis is default config00:34
AntiXpucTN900:~# ls /var/run/reso*00:34
* cehteh poked dnsmasq into his vpn .. after some tries i got it working fine00:34
AntiXpucTit is only one file in any time (in my way - .wlan0 r .gprs)00:34
cehtehyeah thats the default00:35
AntiXpucTand it NOT using nameserver from /var/run/resolv.conf.wlan0 when i connected wia wlan and NOT using .gprs's nameserver, when i connected via gprs :(00:35
cehtehare the nameservers noted there reachable? did you changed anything in the config?00:35
AntiXpucTno, i dont00:35
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cehtehcheck if /var/run/resolv.conf.wlan0 contains the right nameserver and it is reach and useable00:36
AntiXpucTservers are reachable AND (!!!) it working fine if i add nameservers from  /var/run/resolv* to /etc/resolv.conf00:36
cehtehyou can install the 'host' util from devel or so00:36
cehtehhost somename nameservertouse00:37
cehtehcan be used to circumvent dnsmasq00:37
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AntiXpucThmm... anyway, dnsmasq  ignorinf nameserver from .wlan0 ;(00:38
* sp3000 grumbles at onjoin notices00:38
sp3000my client likes to highlight on those :|00:39
cehtehAntiXpucT: well its up to you to diagnose this00:40
pupniki say guantanamo all the useless people including me00:40
cehtehthere is some reason for it, and i dont have a crystal ball00:40
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pupniklittle cages.  no internet. just sdk00:42
AntiXpucTif it is no "cat /var/run/resolv.conf.wlan0 >> /etc/resolv.conf" and "options rotate" - it can't locate "n900" host00:44
cehtehAntiXpucT: eh that are the syntoms .. and you now fucked up /etc/resolv.conf ... restore it and go findout what really happens00:44
cehtehcan you lookup outside addresses?00:45
cehtehping or whatever00:45
AntiXpucTit all working fine00:45
cehtehso dnsmasq works00:45
cehtehits your config which is broken somewhere00:45
AntiXpucTyep, it works itself00:45
AntiXpucTbut it is ignoring nameserver from .wlan000:46
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cehtehno it doesnt00:46
cehtehthen it couldnt resolv microsoft.com00:46
AntiXpucT(those nameserver knows about "n900" host, and dnsmasq says "bad host")00:46
cehtehyeah maybe configuration error there ...00:46
cehtehin your wlan setup and the nameserver pushed to the device00:47
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AntiXpucThmmm... O_o00:47
AntiXpucTbut i show you, than all working fine, if i add this nameserver to /etc/resolv.conf00:47
cehtehhow is 'n900' defined00:48
AntiXpucTlike "n900" ;)00:48
cehtehentry in a upstream nameserver. hosts file .. do you have a 'search domain.tld' in your rsolf.conf.wlan0 ?00:48
cehtehyes but you set it up wrong in some way00:49
AntiXpucTno, i don't and i have no domain configured on upstream dns.00:49
AntiXpucTthere are just hostnames00:49
cehtehi can reach all my host with single names too00:49
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cehtehhow  .. looks wrong to me00:50
cehtehor at least uncommon enough that dnsmasq fails on it00:50
AntiXpucTall working fine, if I delete "domain-needed" from /etc/dnsmasq.conf ;))00:51
AntiXpucTis it really usefull option?00:52
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AntiXpucTand why it use by default? :(00:52
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wazd_e63Heya all01:05
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mecewtf. is down?01:06
SpeedEvilmicrosoft bought it.01:07
SpeedEvilDown for me too01:07
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mecefor feckssake! I was using the reference manual.01:08
mecewell I guess it's time for bed then.01:08
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tremnite all, sweet dreams01:11
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Klownershould file a bug report with DialCentral for making an awkward date invitation call into a phone-ringing-direct-to-voicemail incident01:15
pupnikyou should die in a fire01:16
KlownerI'm complaining about alpha/beta software, I probably should die in a fire01:16
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lardmanI hate C++01:18
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wazd_e63Omg, that FUD thread is hillarious :)01:19
* lcuk passes lardman the bottle01:19
javispedroeven wikipedia is down for me today01:21
javispedroskynet must be starting to become selfaware01:21
* javispedro hides the n810 in safe01:21
fralswazd_e63: not sure if hilarious is the word id use :D01:21
wazd_e63"let's terrorize nokia with FUD!"01:21
fralsi mostly feel bad for how people attack qgil at tmo :P01:22
javispedroit's hilarious. oct2009ers are hilarious, and try to fantasize its own world where they are the victim of some global conspiration, but we knew that already. what I didn't expect is quim's response :P01:22
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wazd_e63Frals: no, seriously, a good list of idiots :)01:22
wazd_e63Frals: "Why Ari isn't answering my questions??!!"01:23
fralshehe, true01:24
LinuxCodemaybe aari does not know himself01:24
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wazd_e63we need to implement some kind of "facepalms per post" rate :)01:24
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greenflywazd_e63: something you could click instead of "Thanks" on each post?01:24
LinuxCodecant answer questions, if you do not know the answers01:24
greenfly"This post has been thanked 3 times and facepalmed 27 times"01:25
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javispedroLinuxCode: do they even know the question?01:25
wazd_e63Greenfly: yeah)01:25
LinuxCodejavispedro, probably not01:25
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LinuxCodeI bet there is a lot of confusion at Intel and Nokia atm01:25
pupnikthat is a real person01:25
wazd_e63Why not asking god himself?01:26
LinuxCode"suits come up with an idea, and then everyone needs to figure out a way"01:26
wazd_e63Dear god, will n900 have a meego update? Kthxbye01:26
LinuxCodewazd_e63, we were just discussing that earlier in #rhel01:27
wazd_e63Or santa for example01:27
LinuxCodeI hope for Nokia they do01:27
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LinuxCodeor people might get put off, permanently01:27
pupnikwhy do we care about nokia01:27
LinuxCodeand the N900 is heavily advertised here01:27
lardman~lart lardman's crappy connection01:27
* infobot takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down lardman's crappy connection's throat until lardman's crappy connection puts on 150lbs01:27
SpeedEvilpupnik: we care as they are a fairly obvious leader.01:28
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SpeedEvilpupnik: A sane store, pushed my a major maker, would at least get some of the various game companies interested.01:28
pupnikSpeedEvil: why give s shit01:28
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SpeedEvilIt depends if you want this to be a geek-only phone.01:29
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wazd_e63Pupnik: because we can  :P01:29
* LinuxCode does not want to see a virus riddled mobile market01:29
LinuxCodelike it happened with the pc market01:30
LinuxCodebesides, pushing linux is always good01:30
SpeedEvilViruses are programs too!01:30
pupnikthe evil is government01:30
pupnikyou shitheads01:30
LinuxCodeand if a device maker is happy to push it onto their devices, that makes me happy01:31
LinuxCodepupnik, been drinking that whisky ?01:31
wazd_e63Pupnik: are you drunk? :D01:31
* b-man17 dies lol'ing01:31
jacekowskiwhat would be the best e-mail client for maemo?01:32
Klownerit's amazing how a couple beers can turn seemingly normal people into raving conspiracy theorists01:32
LinuxCodejacekowski, best is subjective01:32
lcuklardman, whats wrong with c++01:32
lcukand why cant you still use your c logic where plausable01:33
LinuxCodehard to answer01:33
* javispedro somehow relates Klowner's point with the fact that most tmo's Oct2009 are conspiracy theorists01:33
lcukjavispedro, did you get all the examples from the book running?01:33
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javispedronot on actual device, yes on sim01:33
LinuxCodelcuk, which book mate ?01:34
* LinuxCode is now curious01:34
wazd_e63Everybody is so sure that apple is releasing constant updates for old iphones01:34
lardmanlcuk: references vs pointers01:34
javispedrolcuk: there's a "website of the book" with updated samples for iphones01:34
lcukthe book should arrive tomorrow01:34
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lcukive downloaded the samples01:34
lcukthe iphone ones arent as easy to port afaik01:34
LinuxCodewazd_e63, I think in the past it ws more a memory and cpu issue01:34
lcuki think they are xcode or whatever jazz it is01:34
lcukthe windows examples are closer in c01:35
wazd_e633.0 for iPhone 1 is a half baked crap01:35
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javispedroyes, but I found the abstraction library to be easier to understand01:35
wazd_e63Without most of the functionality01:35
lcuki took a glance over most of them and the startup and shutdown is encapsulated in just a couple of files in a mini lib01:35
javispedroyes, that lib :)01:35
LinuxCodewazd_e63, tbh I dont really care for apple very much01:35
LinuxCodemy brother is an Apple nut01:35
lcukwell ill replace that with working code01:35
javispedrolcuk: you can look at some of my triangle samples as those were attempts to rewrite that lib01:36
LinuxCodedesigners prerogative01:36
lcukand then the examples should possibly all then compile run directly without modification01:36
javispedrolcuk: the actual "hello triangle" sample was mostly unmodified01:36
lcukyes i know01:36
javispedro(now you see why the triangle was red! :) )01:36
wazd_e63LinuxCode: me too, but tmo now looks like iphone owners site :)01:36
lcukim just wanting to get them all on device01:36
wazd_e63Apple this, apple that01:36
lcuki want rectangular image textures01:36
lcukive got an idea01:36
LinuxCodewazd_e63, haha01:36
jacekowskihow do i make claws to go to notification area?01:36
LinuxCodeif I ever see a iphone user near the free wlans in town01:37
lcukif it runs it will kick ass01:37
LinuxCodeI will grab the device and stomp on it01:37
LinuxCodeI could not get on one of the 3 free wlans in the city the other day01:37
LinuxCodeso annoying!01:37
javispedrostomp stomp stomp!01:37
javispedrothen take picture01:37
javispedroor video01:37
wazd_e63And run :)01:37
LinuxCodewazd_e63, stand ground01:37
Anti[N900]can anybody advice me? i need jabber client with cute interface, possibility to hide offline contacts, groupchat supportging and "priority" supporting01:37
LinuxCodeactually I have a better idea01:38
LinuxCodeblock the wlan signal period01:38
wazd_e63Anti[N900]: pidgin?01:38
LinuxCodeannoy the iphone users01:38
Anti[N900]pidgin doesn't support priority01:38
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wazd_e63Anti[N900]: not sure if it's "cute" enough though01:39
wazd_e63Anti[N900]: hmmm01:39
wazd_e63Anti[N900]: are you sure?01:39
javispedropidgin does not support priority?01:39
Anti[N900]andres, yep, it cute not enough :)01:39
Anti[N900]yep, i'm sure01:39
javispedrothat surprises me01:40
Anti[N900]or i just can't find it :)01:40
wazd_e63Anti[N900]: cause I remember I was setting it up for my n80001:40
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Anti[N900]where? :)01:40
javispedroeven telepathy which is what maemo uses support priority01:40
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javispedrothe maemo gui is another story, of course :)01:41
Anti[N900]and how i change it?01:41
wazd_e63In protocol advanced settings I guess01:41
Anti[N900]i don't see this option there... :(01:41
wazd_e63That's strange01:42
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wazd_e63Government took it away! Pupnik, wake up! :D01:44
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javispedrodaddy giveth, daddy taketh, daddy blend!01:45
jacekowskiwazd_e63: government are people01:45
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jacekowskiwazd_e63: you are the people01:45
jacekowskiwazd_e63: == you took it away01:45
wazd_e63Anti[N900]: sorry, can't help you further cause I don't have any device to check01:45
wazd_e63Jacekowski: that's a strange equalation :D01:46
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pupnikbitch asses should die01:46
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jacekowskiwazd_e63: i just had to say something controversial to make you highlight me01:46
jacekowskibecause i'm testing if my irssi jabber highlight is working correctly01:47
lardmanthe pain of C++ (or perhaps it's just the wonders of Qt are too much)01:47
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jacekowskiafter my jabber server failure01:47
pupnik30 people on planet earth who help maemo01:47
wazd_e63Jacekowski: look at pupnik, he's doing it well :D01:47
pupniki do nothing01:48
lardmannight chaps01:48
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jacekowskigoing back to e-mail clients for n90001:49
jacekowskiwhat are my options01:49
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jacekowskii would like something like modest01:49
jacekowskibut just little bit more01:49
javispedrolike modest? telnet01:49
jacekowskisylpheed claws seems to be little bit overloaded01:49
javispedromodest is OSS; you could try improving whatever most annoys you of it.01:50
jacekowskiwell, it seems to have problems displaying html messages01:50
timeless_mbppatching modest isn't hard01:50
jacekowskibut that might be MfE issue01:50
javispedrothough there's an issue with the latest pr (a missing build-dep iirc, can be easily removed but I don't remember which feature removing that breaks)01:50
timeless_mbpjacekowski: iirc modest uses gtkhtml01:50
timeless_mbpwhich is well, unfortunate :)01:51
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javispedroyes modest uses gtkhtml01:51
javispedroit was patched for the kinetic+select/cut/copy/paste stuff.01:51
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jacekowskiwell, what are other options01:52
jacekowskisylpheed, modest, thunderbird?01:53
jacekowskiopera mail would be perfect01:53
javispedroyou could try to act tmo-crazy on opera forums01:53
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javispedro"when are we going to get Opera on our N900s?? APPLE HAS ALREADY PROMISED!!"01:53
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javispedro"At least give us a timeline for Opera on the N900!!"01:54
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jacekowskithere is opera for ARM processors01:55
javispedroand in fact maemo has used it.01:56
javispedrobut you get the idea :)01:56
timeless_mbps/used/paid for/01:56
javispedro they still list the n800 :)01:57
jacekowskibut it's just browser01:57
jacekowskiand i'm looking for mail01:57
timeless_mbpopera isn't just a browser01:57
timeless_mbpthey have mail, news, chat01:57
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timeless_mbpopera is a lot like mozilla suite01:58
jacekowskimobile opera is just a browser01:58
timeless_mbpjacekowski: who was talking about mobile opera?01:58
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jacekowskiat least it was just a browser when i used it last time01:58
SpeedEviljacekowski: that's what they want you to think.01:58
javispedroevil opera conspirators01:59
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wazd_e63Why ari can't answer to my question bout opera?!02:00
javispedrogod yet another conspiracy thread!02:00
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* wazd_e63 turns the lights off and hides under the table02:02
javispedrooh no, the conspiracy theorists opened a thread about germs on the n900!02:04
javispedromind control!02:04
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cehtehdont you wrap your n900 in tin-foil?02:05
microlithnot if I want it to work!02:05
cehteh(and no, not aluminium foil!)02:05
javispedrothat is not enough! I just let saint ignucious exorcise my n900.02:06
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microlithjavispedro: I think a floating, spinning N900 could be a feature...02:06
jacekowskibtw. what's purpose of asterix on n900?02:07
wazd_e63Microlith: in vaacum :)02:07
javispedroa "good designed OS"...02:07
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luke-jrjacekowski: learn to spell Asterisk02:08
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luke-jrjacekowski: I would presume there are a variety of purposes.02:08
jacekowskiit's asteirx and obelix02:08
jacekowskiwith ix at the end02:08
luke-jrnot the very least to send unsolicited calls to the telemarketter torture script02:08
jacekowskithey misspeled it in02:08
luke-jrjacekowski: Asterisk isn't spelled with 'x' in English02:08
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microlithluke-jr: I believe asterix and obelix are names of software packages...?02:09
jacekowskii think you've read different comic books02:09
wazd_e63Asterisk and obelisk :D02:09
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wazd_e63That's a rip off :)02:09
jacekowskiit's spelled with ix02:09
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javispedroIxterisk and Ixobelix?02:09
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microliththis: ?02:10
wazd_e63No, asterisk, as a software is really "isk"02:10
jacekowskiclose, but not good enough02:10
luke-jrjacekowski: Asterisk the software is spelled English too02:10
microlithcause anything else is a french animation...02:10
javispedroAsterixis is a tremor of the wrist when the wrist is extended sometimes said to resemble a bird flapping its wings.02:10
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N900evila risk even02:13
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* javispedro preventively unsubscribes from the n900 fud thread02:15
ds3@#%#@$@#$#@$ timing... no active coupons for the N900 :(02:16
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wazd_e63Javispedro: you can't read that fast? :)02:21
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javispedroI can today, tomorrow is another story.02:21
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wazd_e63I think I still need to get some sleep, cyall guys02:24
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* GeneralAntilles sighs at the screenful of growl notifications.02:29
javispedroyou too should try some tmo unsubscribe treatment02:29
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, all from IRC. :P02:30
javispedrothen they're all very important stuff. I hope it doesn't even cross mind your mind to click whatever Growl calls the "discard all" button.02:31
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: hi02:31
GeneralAntillesYo, luke-jr.02:31
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koupsahello all02:49
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GeneralAntillesMatan is such a wonderful little troll.02:52
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b-man17vjoin #xceleo03:28
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adalalhey, im trying to install easy debian03:31
adalalanyone with experience on that?03:31
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adalali wanna know a quicker way for this03:33
adalallike manually extracting on a pc03:33
pupnikgo stick a cucumber in yourself03:35
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adalalwhat do you mean?03:35
ShadowJKhe forgot to take his meds03:36
crashanddiepupnik: go to your room03:36
crashanddieadalal: what do you mean "quicker way?"03:37
pupnikeat the dog dung crashanddie03:37
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crashanddiepupnik: last warning, stop trolling03:37
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pupnikdo not engagwe pupnik03:38
adalali mean, instead of running it on my phone for 3 hours, how about quickening things by extracting it on my computer...03:38
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n00bmonk3yi blame lcuk.... all his fault lol03:38
adalaljust need to know how easy debian works03:38
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, lol, I missed your emergency situation last night. :P03:38
lcukn00bmonk3y, !!03:39
n00bmonk3yits 1:40 am, i swear i should be doing something more important then testing vibrations lol03:39
crashanddieadalal: you'll still have to transfer everything, and all the files will need to be created. Honestly I believe the bottleneck is the storage, not the decompression03:39
lcukso whats changed03:39
lcuk138 here03:39
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: eh?03:39
n00bmonk3yi gave you vibrationy goodness and it fails for you!03:39
crashanddielcuk & n00bmonk3y: wow, you're two timezone-minutes apart!03:39
n00bmonk3yi know ;) tough life living in worthing03:40
n00bmonk3yall the old people suck 2 minutes away from your life03:40
lcuk:D seb, evening03:40
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, mwkn.03:40
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: heh, yeah03:40
n00bmonk3ylcuk - does it seg fault you on load or on vibration test?03:40
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: but then you taunted me about it on your damned N90003:40
lcukits clicking on the icon03:41
lcukor then from console03:41
* n00bmonk3y grumbles n swears03:41
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, yeah, sorry. :P03:41
lcuki ran with -d option to try show more debug03:41
lcukbut its python crap03:41
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I had assumed there wasn't a lot of effort involved.03:41
adalalcrashanddie: i dont quite understand, storage? i thought the 20+ gigs on the partition would be enough :S03:41
n00bmonk3yyeah thank you very appreciated03:41
n00bmonk3ythe only bit that doesnt happen for me, is the seg fault03:41
n00bmonk3ythe rest has always done it03:41
lcukyou know what i mean, i actually read over it thinkin how efficient that is as a language03:41
lcukyet sucky in speed03:41
n00bmonk3ywonder if it works for anyone else....03:42
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n00bmonk3ygoing for a ciggy lol... stress releaver03:42
lcukhold on, ill try download an old version03:42
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pupnikcrashanddie: the giant producer of maemo software03:43
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crashanddiepupnik: go take a cold shower mate, seriously03:43
pupniksome humility please03:43
pupniklike i have03:44
adalalbut does anyone know what has to be done with the img.ext2 file after it's been extracted?03:44
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n00bmonk3ythats better03:47
n00bmonk3ysorry i had a ciggie03:47
n00bmonk3yfeel better lol03:47
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lcukn00bmonk3y do you have git?03:49
lcukif so, whats your url03:50
n00bmonk3ynope dont think so,03:50
n00bmonk3yassume i need to create an account hehe03:50
n00bmonk3yjust did a bugs one lol - that was a start03:50
lcukyeah, how do you retain version control :$03:50
n00bmonk3yon my pc :D03:50
n00bmonk3yhave a folder for every version with notes03:51
lcukok, its also on luckily03:51
n00bmonk3yto be precise03:51
n00bmonk3y0.5.1-3 should be a working version for you i think03:51
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lcukthe last version you pushed to devel03:53
lcukthe day before i saw it, install it and posted03:54
n00bmonk3yNope last to get pushed out03:54
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n00bmonk3yor was the last you saw?03:54
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n00bmonk3yi push a few daily ;)03:54
lcukhealthcheck 0.5.0-3Fremantle Extras-devel free armelOld version cleaned by repository managementSystem2010-02-26 18:40 UTC03:54
lcukyeah i know03:54
lcukthat was less than a week ago03:55
n00bmonk3ylol twas the last cleaned :P03:55
lcuki cant download that version03:55
lcuki was going to get it and see if it worked03:55
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n00bmonk3ydont you want 0.5.1-3?03:55
lcukie, is it something you changed, or i changed03:55
dracflamloc_so whats the best ftp prog for n90003:55
lcukn00bmonk3y, no, the version i have indicated03:55
n00bmonk3yi think i may know why though - not closed a few calls03:56
n00bmonk3yjust closing them now and will re-push it.03:56
lcukheh ok03:56
n00bmonk3ycalling dbus a few times, could cause a few issues03:57
lcuki prefer dtrain03:57
n00bmonk3y? lol03:58
n00bmonk3ygot an interesting error i can see03:59
n00bmonk3ydbus-send: Data item "ate" is badly formed03:59
lcukill make a new py and tell you if it works03:59
n00bmonk3yno idea what language you are speaking lols03:59
lcukuse to send new source for /opt/healthcare/ ;)04:00
lcuki will test it here04:00
n00bmonk3yme, youll need a few py's lol04:01
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lcukoh cripes, when did it spread?04:01
n00bmonk3yit got the lurgey and i learnt about being a bit tidier lol04:01
pupnikyeah gay ness04:02
pupnikwe can solve the tatd04:02
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pupniktakes a bit of money04:02
n00bmonk3yhmmm def found the error and its in a dbus call......04:03 dbus-send --print-reply --system /com/nokia/mce/request string:' + "\'PatternTouchscreen\'04:03
pupniktakes a bit of money04:03
n00bmonk3ysorry remove the "\ 's - as thats just in the code04:04
n00bmonk3yw000ps building a new one :D04:06
cehtehwhat are you trying? my xchat notify plugin has some ad-hoc code for vibrating and blinking the leds04:07
cehteh(in C)04:07
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n00bmonk3ymy healthcheck app - was causing lcuk to have a few minifits lol... should be fine noew :)04:07
n00bmonk3ynew build gone in, so gotta wait the usual 10 missippissippi's04:08
cehtehyou should cancel patterns you started when done with them, else they may shadow other ones (based on priority)04:08
MercuryHrm, is rebooting while trying to charge (but not otherwise) generally a sign of a deadish battery and not other issues?04:08
n00bmonk3yyup i do :)04:08
n00bmonk3yand the spelling mistake was in the cancel ;)04:08
n00bmonk3yhad deactiv ate04:09
n00bmonk3ywondered why i was getting "ate" errors04:09
cehtehdidnt followed the coversation04:09
pupnikno problem ginocunt.  i am in the circle04:09
n00bmonk3yi copied the line from a talk.m page, and it had the space in it ;)04:09
pupnikginotwat is silent04:09
* lcuk checks for updates :P04:11
pupnikdont start bitch04:11
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n00bmonk3ythink it's about 8-10 minutes these days  :D04:11
n00bmonk3yooo under 4 hours sleep now, tomorrow will be fun ;)04:12
pupnikthis chodemuncher needs to be banned04:12
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* n00bmonk3y is updating :) - new version out already! go autobuilder go!04:13
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n00bmonk3ymeh, works for me again04:14
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n00bmonk3yaghhhh, now a problem on first tab04:16
n00bmonk3yi cant win tonight04:16
lcuklol n00bmonk3y whats your name?04:16
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n00bmonk3ynow thats a good question ;)04:16
n00bmonk3ydid the update vibrate bit work for you?04:17
pupnikif intel fucks the compouter world again04:17
lcukwhat version04:17
n00bmonk3yfound the error on tab 1 though04:17
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n00bmonk3yright... last build for the night going in... tested all bits and now working!04:19
n00bmonk3yactually thankful the autobuilder process is simple'ish now04:22
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n00bmonk3ylcuk - ok a working version with no errors in extras devel04:28
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lcukthanks n00bmonk3y :D04:29
n00bmonk3y:D :D :D04:30
* lcuk best sleep, gnite [insertname]04:31
n00bmonk3ynight lcuk04:32
* n00bmonk3y goes to bed too (a different bed i might add! lol)04:32
crashanddien00bmonk3y: the fact you felt you had to specify that is quite worrying04:32
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dracflamloc_wow bluetooth is slow04:34
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lucentyou think wifi is slow, try transferring a few hundred megabytes over bluetooth link04:34
lucentmakes me pretend I'm travelling backwards through time to appreciate 802.11b04:35
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pupnikwell who maded you op crashanddie04:37
crashanddiepupnik: GA and X fade04:37
GeneralAntillespupnik, run, he'll eat your family!04:37
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pupniknah hes cool04:38
pupnikwel almost04:38
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pupnikhundreds of #maemo lurkers04:54
pupnikand total fail04:55
pupnikgigantor fail04:55
DocScrutinizerfail on what?04:55
pupniki could kick all your asses04:56
DocScrutinizerproductivity like in adding a "lol" comment ? ;-P04:56
pupnikand i SUCK04:56
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GeneralAntillespupnik, be still. :P04:57
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: go kick my ass - tell me if and how gaia chip can supply VBUS voltage to USB hostmode!04:57
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pupnikno i dont understand that sorry.  u are right04:58
pupnikbut there sre a lot of "easy" things04:59
DocScrutinizerwell, people have different notion of "productivity". Some even might not give a shit about, at all05:00
DocScrutinizerI love scrutinizing electronics docs like schematics. - thus my nick05:01
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DocScrutinizerif this doesn't meet your definition of productivity - your problem05:01
pupniki auck05:04
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: did you moved /usr or /var meanwhile?05:16
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DocScrutinizernot yet. Had a long sleep()05:16
cehtehhehe me too :P05:16
cehtehnow a big coffee :P05:16
DocScrutinizergood idea, could use a second one as well05:17
cehtehand working on something else ..05:17
cehteh(not n900!)05:17
cehtehi didnt recognized that t-tan yesterday is the guy who makes this community kernel .. if he reappears i have to ask him some things05:18
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DocScrutinizerlike f.e. if he spent a few moke KB for the kernel log buffer? ;-P05:22
cehteh.. more about "what do you think about making it in some why that the next time i try it, it doesnt brick my device" ... :P05:24
DocScrutinizerdamn, another kernel devels' madness at Nokia, to config the kernel in such a way not even a full system boot's kernel log msgs fits into dmesg ringbuffer05:24
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DocScrutinizercehteh: what exactly mad the whole thing fail? any clue?05:29
cehtehno idea ... that morning HAM showed an update and i installed it .. and reboot was neither re nor boot05:30
DocScrutinizerwhat was that update?05:31
cehtehand i dont have the knowledge and patience to debug the boot process05:31
cehtehthe package 'linux-kernel-flasher' or so is its name05:31
cehtehthat installs a new enhanced kernel05:32
cehteh(with ext4 support)05:32
cehtehnow i am back to the nokia kernel ..05:32
cehtehand unless t-tam has a plan how to survive failures with some rescue strategy and how to handle nokia firmware updates i am not going to try it again05:33
cehtehi like the idea of community provided kernels .. but you have to be careful not to close the dor behind you for nokia updates05:33
cehtehext4 is already critical .. i doubt that nokia kernels will ever support it05:34
lucentI was hoping for luks crypto support.05:34
cehtehbut i can live with it when a first boot wont be able to access MyDocs and mmc1 ... as long there is some way to get that other kernel in asap05:35
lucenton desktop Ubuntu and Windows machines I can mount my USB storage device partition 2 as luks crypto05:35
lucentit just pops up asking me for password05:35
lucentworks awesome05:35
cehtehlucent: iirc that kernel has crypto05:35
lucentthere's a userland component to that problem which I have not seen addressed in Maemo05:35
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cehtehbut i see problems with the device about usability .. when and how will you unlock it05:35
DocScrutinizercehteh: another case of different thinking between foss-devels and commercial maintenance of a system05:36
cehtehif someone steals your device its likely in a unlocked state so crypto wont help you much .. except for draing battery05:36
DocScrutinizercehteh: I've seen soem of these by now ;-P05:36
cehtehnote that with only 256MB ram there is no much page cache and it has to decrypt even more05:37
cehtehDocScrutinizer: yeah05:37
cehtehas i saied at some point i would like if the community can stand on its own legs .. maintain a up to date kernel and integrating nokias updated blobs05:38
cehteh(in some legally workaround way)05:38
DocScrutinizermy time with OM obviously changed my thinking a little. I only realized that when you made your comment about the back-cover switch sync idea I had yesterday05:38
cehtehthe kernel is not tainted, this should be possible05:38
cehtehbut it needs some work and people05:39
cehtehof course .. there are a lot still cosed things where nokia say "we dont need to open them because you dont need it"05:40
DocScrutinizeralways a very bad reasoning05:40
cehtehlike MCE .. i thought about DeviceOn Blinking should be in different color depending on battery state ...05:40
cehtehbut thats impossible to hack05:40
DocScrutinizerI usually like to argue against that until everybody is annoyed to death ;-P05:41
SpeedEvilImpossible is a strong word.05:41
cehtehfor changing blinking patterns you have to restart MCE .. which is not practical05:41
cehtehSpeedEvil: well not easily and conviniently05:41
cehtehas with open source05:41
DocScrutinizerI posed a /me is pondering a complete MCE RE05:41
DocScrutinizersome days ago05:41
DocScrutinizerreverse engineering05:42
SpeedEvilI want disk activity on green, CPU on red, and net on blue05:42
cehtehwell i buyed the n900 and not something else because i dont like this RE, jailbreaking and stuff05:42
DocScrutinizerheh, you can do all that very easily05:42
cehtehi want to support openness .. reverse enginerring is imo the wrong thing to educate hardware creators05:43
cehtehof course you can .. but in a ideal way you should not be required to do so05:43
DocScrutinizercehteh: (change blink patterns) No, you have all you need in LP5523's cmd set, it can even do ADD, MUL, and register indirect (or something like that)05:44
DocScrutinizerI referred to your requests for features, not to RE. When I said "easily"05:45
cehtehbut mce will override it and it has the authority in the system to control it05:45
cehtehof course i can poke directly into the registers, i did that05:45
cehtehbut what i want is a 'offical' way05:45
cehtehadd DeviceOnBattLowPattern .... and let mce react on a battery low dbus signal switchign to that pattern05:46
cehtehif it would be open source it would be trivial05:46
cehtehwith closed source its just pita05:47
cehtehand i dont have *that* much need on it that i desperately reverse enginer mce ..05:47
cehtehbut open source will add value here even for nokia, getting features back from the community which they never tought about05:48
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DocScrutinizerthere IS an 'official' way at least for changing blink patterns. You load *one* sophisticated pattern, that reads variable A, B, or C to change the pattern. Of course there's no way in static mce.ini to dynamically change value of A, B, C depending on bat charge. You need to implement that via direct access to LP5523 either via sysnodes or directly via I2C05:48
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cehtehi know how to do that05:49
cehtehbut this is a unclean solution05:49
cehtehwhen you poke something into sys mce will override it at any occation05:49
DocScrutinizerreally? Weird, as afaik the math and indirect cmds of LP5523 are in the nondisclosed datasheet, and the public ds of LP5521 doesn't have these05:49
cehtehits documented on the wiki somewhere05:50
DocScrutinizercehteh: No. MCE will *not* o verride setting of variable contents05:50
cehtehwell i defined a PatternIRCMessage  for the vibrator, and my xchat plugin calls that over mce05:50
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cehtehi could add a PatternBatteryLow   for the led and write a small daemon which watches on dbus battery low warning and does nothing that enable this pattern05:51
cehteh(over mce)05:52
DocScrutinizermaybe I made not clear enough: A,B, and C are hw register variables in LP5523, which you can use in ramp, loop, and set commands instead of direct values05:52
cehtehyes ... but what happens if a call comes in and mce want to notify this call?05:53
DocScrutinizerso your pattern mce loads to LP5523 never changes, and mce can overwrite as frequently as it likes.05:53
DocScrutinizerYou only change the value of A in LP5523 by direct access05:54
cehtehbut well i dont want to block mce either .. i want its features05:54
DocScrutinizeryou do not need to blocj mce05:54
cehtehthe daemon approach above might be the simplest way05:54
cehtehi dont understand you05:54
DocScrutinizerlemme check for you, moment please05:55
cehtehsomething has to coordinate the access to the controler05:55
cehtehthats by definition mce .. i can poke something into it .. but how do i define if my pattern has precedence over what mce thinks?05:56
cehtehthere are 3 pwm's ... the first one is commonly used, the second is spare and can be used for the blinking patterns and the third controls the keyboard lights05:56
DocScrutinizeryou use mce to store your pattern to lp552305:57
cehtehwell that exactly like i saied with the 'daemon' approach05:57
cehtehi define a new "battery low" pattern for mce05:57
cehtehand write a daemon which sends a message to mce to activate it when it gets a battery low message05:58
DocScrutinizer3C : variable: these bits are used to store a global 8-bit variable. Variable can be used to control program flow05:58
DocScrutinizer(from LP5523 datasheet)05:58
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DocScrutinizerramp(i): 0, prescale[1], stoptime[5], sign[1], # of increments[8]06:00
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DocScrutinizerramp(ii): 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, prescale[1], sign[1], steptime[2], # of increments[2]06:02
cehtehmhm .. this led-pattern editor has some bugs  still :P06:02
DocScrutinizeri: used with direct values. ii: used with variables06:02
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cehtehi dont get what you want06:05
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DocScrutinizerProgramming ramps with variables is very similar to program-06:08
DocScrutinizerming ramps with numerical operands. The only difference is06:08
DocScrutinizerthat step time and number of increments are captured from06:08
DocScrutinizervariable registers, when the instruction execution is started.06:08
DocScrutinizercehteh: you create a invariant pattern using e.g ramp with variable06:09
DocScrutinizeryou store this pattern via mce06:09
DocScrutinizeryou set value of variable via direct acces to LP553:3E06:09
cehtehand control it by poking the var06:09
cehtehwell still means i have to run something which watches the battery06:10
cehteh..reacts on events06:11
DocScrutinizermce won't override the variable (I hope :-P)06:11
cehtehand when someone else decides the same it collides06:11
DocScrutinizersure you need your own foo to do this nonstandard battery supervision06:11
DocScrutinizer(collisions) that's all times and everywhere06:12
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cehtehhehe well defining a battery low pattern in mce.ini and call that from my foo would be clean06:13
DocScrutinizeryou mustn't use colliding services of any kind. Nowhere :-)06:13
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DocScrutinizernot if a second service does same, but with different notion of bat low level06:14
AFBN900any webserver ben ported to fremantle yet?06:14
cehtehsince ages06:14
cehtehDocScrutinizer: well that would only collide in config and not in hardware. more sane06:15
DocScrutinizeraah, for all the anxious lurkers:06:16
DocScrutinizerstep time (ii)06:16
AFBN900is it in repos06:16
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DocScrutinizerOne ramp increment done in (step time) x (prescale).06:16
DocScrutinizerStep time is loaded with the value (5 LSB bits) of the variable defined below.06:16
DocScrutinizer0 = local variable A06:16
DocScrutinizer1 = local variable B06:17
DocScrutinizer2 = global variable C06:17
DocScrutinizer3 = register address 3CH variable D value, or register address 42H value.06:17
cehtehback off...06:17
DocScrutinizerThe value of the variable should be from 00001b to 11111b (1d to 31d) for correct operation.06:17
cehtehother question are there some scripts triggered in /etc or somewhere when battery goes low or charger is plugged in?06:17
cehtehthat would make this *really* easy06:17
cehtehjust dbus-send and done!06:18
DocScrutinizer~lart mce06:18
* infobot beats mce into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy06:18
DocScrutinizerguess no06:18
DocScrutinizer# of increments06:18
DocScrutinizerThe number of increment/decrement cycles. Value is taken from variable def0 = local variable A06:18
DocScrutinizer1 = local variable B06:18
DocScrutinizer2 = global variable C06:18
DocScrutinizer3 = register address 3CH variable D value, or register address 42H value.06:18
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DocScrutinizerooops, missing "0":06:21
DocScrutinizerramp(ii): 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, prescale[1], sign[1], steptime[2], # of increments[8]06:22
rasterDocScrutinizer:  DOCZZZZZZZZZZZZ!06:22
DocScrutinizerraster: qwazzup?06:23
rasternuffin' - just sayin' hi-ho!06:23
cehtehpf::powerwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail start06:23
cehtehpn::powerfailnow:/etc/init.d/powerfail now06:23
cehtehpo::powerokwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail stop06:23
cehteh.. inittab06:23
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cehtehhow much would you bet that these are not used? :)06:23
cehteh/etc/init.d/powerfail doesnt even exist06:25
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DocScrutinizerraster: just busy proving you "schem never useful, never disclosed" wrong :-P06:25
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cehtehok lets forget about this .. i have other work to do06:26
DocScrutinizercehteh: :-D06:26
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DocScrutinizerraster: though I fully appreciate, with decent comprehensive commented OSS drivers you rarely ever need them06:27
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rasterDocScrutinizer: you shouldnt need them.06:29
DocScrutinizerraster: and obviously without chip datasheets the schem are largely useless06:29
rasterthats where i'm comibng from06:29
rasterif u have datasheets and open soruce drivers - the schem is pretty much not useful06:30
rastersure - u might not know if interrupt line from chip a (as datasheet says it has) is wired up06:30
DocScrutinizerwell, I say "need datasheets? heh, they *are* somewhere on this planet"06:30
rasterbut u'll find out uber-fast when u try :)06:30
cehtehrgrep -i battery /usr/include/06:30
cehteh/usr/include/hgw/hgw.h:  HGW_DEVICE_STATE_BATTERYLOW = 0x10,06:30
cehteh * This file is part of hildon-games-wrapper06:30
AFBN900has php-cgi been ported to maemo cant find the package but lighttpd says you need it for php06:32
DocScrutinizerraster: let's agree a driver devel needs sufficient amount of decent accurate info. No matter which form these come06:32
DocScrutinizersoure + datasheet fine. Schematics + datasheet also fine06:32
DocScrutinizersource + schematics cumbersome06:33
DocScrutinizernone of those 3 a real PITA06:33
crashanddieIt's funny though06:33
cehtehhehe only schematics is prolly pita as well06:33
crashanddieall those whining little kids on tmo06:33
crashanddieyelling at Quim for trying to clear things up06:34
crashanddie"Nokia's PR sucks"06:34
crashanddie"Nokia are run by communists"06:34
DocScrutinizerthe bloody reds06:34
cehteh"GPS thinks im in China .... help! (12)"   ... haha06:34
crashanddieIt's funny to see how having a more open relationship with a community nearly always ends up with that very same community being alienated by any form of communication06:34
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: been there06:36
crashanddieNokia was right with how they handled the whole Meego transition06:37
crashanddieMaemo's community is crap06:37
crashanddieserious and utter horseshit06:37
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: you can stop a lot of that bitching by real communication instead of dropping announcements. Only if community is reasonably small though06:37
crashanddieyou get spat in the face for trying to help, kicked in the balls for offering answers06:37
crashanddieI say, fuck Maemo as a community06:37
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rasterDocScrutinizer: schematics unfortunately are mostly useless for driver devel.. if u dont have datasheets. as u said. dastasheets from a software pov cover your bases. i'm a happoy man with datasheets06:38
crashanddiethe people who matter (and they know who they are) will move on to better things06:38
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: of course, NITs don't have datasheets, schematics, OR source :(06:38
crashanddiethey'll be able to move past the shit that flies around, while the moaners and the bitchers stay stuck06:38
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: that's why I mentioned this case as "real PITA"06:38
luke-jrah, I see :)06:39
luke-jrI read that line wrong06:39
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: though now I got semi-decent schematics, plus a number of datasheets (growing all the time)06:39
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: for NITs?06:39
DocScrutinizerfor N90006:40
rastercrashanddie: right now nokia havent handled the mego thing as well as they should imho.06:40
DocScrutinizerfor 810 I got schem a 6months ago06:40
luke-jrincluding the parts Nokia doesn't include source for?06:40
rasteras best i know there is no answere on "so what with n900 and meego? will my n900 be supported fully in future?"06:40
rasteror point me to it... :)06:40
crashanddieraster: it's not the right question to ask06:40
rasteralso the whole "lets move to rpm" and people have been busy working on doing debian packaging for maemo - there will be a big hiccup in software infra06:41
rastercrashanddie: its damned wel the right q to ask - if u bought a n900 and want to know if u were just shafted wrt. to support and future os/software direction06:41
crashanddieThat's not even going to be the case for MeeGo 106:41
ShadowJKraster, and Maemo 6 will mostly have deb's still ;)06:41
ShadowJKor so they say :D06:41
luke-jrraster: that's what Nokia has always done. get used to it.06:41
crashanddieraster: you have a full keyboard, use it06:42
rasterShadowJK: but maemo6 != meego06:42
rastermeego as last i heard was going to all be rpm06:42
crashanddieraster: Maemo 6 = MeeGo 1.006:42
rastermaemo6 may be a step towards meego06:42
ShadowJKcrashanddie, I don't think so06:42
crashanddieit's API compatible06:42
ShadowJKHowever, I think Maemo 6 will support the Meego 1.0 API!06:42
rasterluke-jr:  i'm not here to flame. so not going there.06:42
rastercrashanddie: api - yes. hooray. maemo5 is api compatible to ubuntu06:42
rasteror debian06:42
rasteror fedora06:43
rasteror god knows what else06:43
rasterdepends by "how muhc of the api"06:43
crashanddieyou're already trolling, you might as well flame06:43
rasteras such packaging structure, formats, standards etc. are all different in the future06:43
ShadowJKraster, I think they're going to define a subset, kinda like LSB does, but a useful one...06:43
rastercrashanddie:  i am not trolling.06:43
crashanddiesure you are06:43
rastercrashanddie:  i dont troll. i'd like you to rethink your accusation.06:43
crashanddieyou're not listening to what people say06:43
rastercrashanddie: i am listening.06:44
ShadowJKBut yeah, in practice people will just use whatver libs are present and whine about $vendors when stuff only works on one device06:44
luke-jrraster: Maemo 5 doesn't support N810. Why would you assume Maemo 6 will support N900?06:44
luke-jrlet alone MeeGo, an entirely new thing06:44
cehtehanyone of you happen to have an almost empty (but not red yet) battery right now?06:44
crashanddiepeople will have to rebuild their apps anyway for new versions of Maemo/Meego, so moving to RPM really isn't such a big deal. We'll still submit sources to a builder, and get the package in the repos, not any different from my point of view06:44
ShadowJKWell MeeGo is more like Mer... that'd make it easier to move from device to device :D06:44
ShadowJKcehteh, mine's at 37%06:44
rastercrashanddie: you are deciding to chuck a hissie-fit over it all. i'm being simple and objective. i have an n900 here. and i have yet to hear a nokia communication that tells me that they will port and support future os's on the n900 that are meego once its all merged06:45
crashanddieAlso, why the fuck do people go "OMG NOKIA ANNOUCED A NEW PLATFORM, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO MY N900????? ZOMG"06:45
rastermeego is going to have a chunk of pain as its 2 distros merging06:45
luke-jrraster: don't expect it. Nokia doesn't do that.06:45
cehtehmhm .. bit much .. want someone to dbus-monitor and report the exact signal it sends when the battery low warning comes06:45
cehtehwith 37% i guess we have to wait some hours06:46
crashanddieraster: when you bought your N900, did it have a sticker saying "MeeGo/Maemo 6 compatible"?06:46
rastercrashanddie: because people who buy the n900 and speak in the community dont see it as a device with a 1-off os. they expect and hope for support with future os's back-ported and working on it so their investment pays off.06:46
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cehtehmine is at 100% plugged into charger06:46
rastercrashanddie: your view of the device and theirs (and mine) differs06:46
luke-jrraster: that's a misconception people have06:46
crashanddieraster: and if they were smart enough, they'd realise that the OS is open enough for them to maintain themselves06:46
rasterluke-jr:  no - it's an expectation. regardless of guarantees or what nokia do06:46
luke-jrraster: Nokia does one-off devices. They might do a few bugfix revisions, but that's about it.06:46
rasterits an expectation06:46
ShadowJKcehteh, actually, the meter changed its mind and is now saying 45% :P06:46
luke-jrraster: it's a flawed one, since Nokia never does that06:47
crashanddieraster: Nokia won't stop developing on Maemo 5 tomorrow evening, if they have a bunch of people using it it will keep getting bugfixes etc06:47
rasterits like expecting your microwave will actually heat up your food.06:47
rasterand will continue to do so.06:47
rastereven when the food changes.06:47
crashanddiedude, that is the worst metafor EVER06:47
ali1234maemo 5 *isn't* open enough for the users to maintain it by themselves06:47
luke-jrraster: like it or not, Nokia sucks. :P06:47
crashanddieali1234: yes it is06:48
ali1234unless you don't care that you can't make phone calls on the community port06:48
luke-jrwe get a one-off OS that can't be maintained by the community.06:48
crashanddieali1234: you can setup repos, you can distribute apps, which is 99% of what is needed anyway06:48
ShadowJKali1234, I think jebba has done it ;)06:48
rastercrashanddie: dude. nokia have already said no to some of my bug reportsa as they will not fix it on maemo5 - even though they can and its nothing maemo5 specific - they are already moving on. dont tell me otherwise.06:48
ShadowJKwith ofono..06:48
ali1234yeah, ofono... which has no GUI06:48
arachnistali1234: GUI is the least of your problems, if everything else works06:48
cehtehShadowJK: be a good boy and watch some pr0n to drain your battery as fast as possible please06:48
ShadowJKcehteh, downloading podcasts on 3g06:49
ShadowJKunfortunately not that much new06:49
ShadowJKI was hoping for 500 megs new or something06:49
arachnistcrashanddie: you don't want to be stuck with an ancient kernel and ancient xorg for eternity06:49
crashanddieraster: well, first of, Nokia didn't say no, Andre did. And no, fixing the size of a button isn't important enough to warrant a development effort -- synch with Exchange however is being worked on as we speak06:49
crashanddiearachnist: why not? My N810 still runs whatever the kernel version is, and whatever the graphical server is06:49
* DocScrutinizer yawns and points to /topic06:50
crashanddieit's a NIT for fuck's sake06:50
luke-jrcrashanddie: and as a result, N810 is quickly becoming unusable06:50
crashanddieluke-jr: no it doesn't06:50
cehtehShadowJK: before it goes red please do a 'dbus-monitor --system' and tell me the bme signal for the battery low06:50
crashanddieit's perfectly fine, what the hell are you guys on about?06:50
cehtehsignal sender=:1.25 -> dest=(null destination) serial=78 path=/com/nokia/bme/signal;; member=charger_charging_on06:50
cehtehsignal sender=:1.25 -> dest=(null destination) serial=79 path=/com/nokia/bme/signal;; member=battery_full06:50
luke-jrcrashanddie: it lacks the memory for a modern DE, for a start06:50
arachnistcrashanddie: because, especially with xorg, things are going to get incompatible with current versions sooner or later06:50
luke-jrcrashanddie: a problem that would be solved by 2.6.33's memory compression06:50
crashanddieno it wouldn't06:50
ali1234a good metaphor would be if sony released the ps3 six months after the ps2. people might want to know if there would still be games made for ps2, or if they just spent $500 on an expensive paperweight.06:50
DocScrutinizer1478th meego-kills-maemo whining - and counting06:51
luke-jrarachnist: with Linux, too; any recent udev version no longer supports N810's kernel06:51
cehteh.. i have these too battery low should be similar i guess it will be exactly 'battery_low' but not sure06:51
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: to the rescue!06:51
ShadowJKluke-jr, memory compression?06:51
luke-jrShadowJK: yes, ramzswap06:51
ShadowJKoh that got merged?06:51
rastercrashanddie:  wtf? chaning size of a button? where did i mention that?06:51
cehtehluke-jr: do you have an package for the n900 for that?06:51
crashanddieraster: just giving a random example, I don't know your bug reports by heart06:51
rastercrashanddie:  and what has andre got to do with this?06:51
ShadowJKluke-jr, there's thread on tmo with user friendly install for it on N810 btw06:51
rastermy bug reports are on the opengl-es libs/drivers06:52
luke-jrcehteh: a package for what?06:52
arachnistramzswap and memory deduplication might do wonders on embedded devices06:52
cehtehi use ramzswap on the laptop .. even with 4GB ram ..06:52
luke-jrShadowJK: ???06:52
rasterspecifically actual artifacts in rendering, failure to comply with opengl-es specs (those may get fixed) and horrible performance due to grotuitous extra copies06:52
luke-jrramzswap can't be packaged last I checked06:52
rasteralso no vsync swaps - so u cannto get rid of tearing.06:52
ShadowJKluke-jr, how come?06:52
rasterits a generic problem be it in mameo5,6,7, meego ro any other os06:52
luke-jrShadowJK: it touches too much kernel internals06:53
cehtehwell i didnt checked tried yet06:53
rasterbut.. the last bits (copies/vsync) have been punted off to "not in maemo 5"06:53
luke-jrShadowJK: it also doesn't support over-2-years-old-ancient kernels06:53
cehtehluke-jr: huh it doesnt06:53
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rasterin fact.. i'll quote06:53
crashanddieraster: no need06:53
crashanddieraster: you're talking to yourself, just point to the bug reports if you want to be specific06:53
raster> vsync, tearing and performance. when in fullscreen mode - i get tearing.06:53
raster> eglswapbuffers doesnt sync its swaps (should really use triple buffering06:53
raster> here and queue a swap for next vsync).06:53
rasterSee bug 5556.  Needs newer SGX drivers which will be available only in06:53
povbotBug when switching desktops, there is some tearing of the image06:53
cehtehyou dont even need to patch the kernel (there is an optional patch)06:53
povbotBug 9320: opengl-es2 rendering bugs06:53
cehtehbut it works as external module06:53
raster> 2. doing copies in compositor from back to front buffer (not swaps).06:54
rasteralready piunting it off to harmattan06:54
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*** raster was kicked by crashanddie (I said don't paste)06:54
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cehtehbit pedantic today?06:54
rastercrashanddie: you, sir, are a sad excuse for an erogenous zone.06:55
rasterso.. you disagree with me and u kick06:55
rasterno wonder the maemo community hates nokia06:55
crashanddieraster: I don't disagree, I don't want you to flood the bloody channel06:55
crashanddieraster: talk about it all you like, we have povbot, a link to the bug report is enough06:55
crashanddiebug #12306:55
povbotBug Dialogs will be transparent as soon as tiping on the top bar06:55
rasterbah the pastes are not any more than regular typing. your idea of flood is a bit skewed06:55
crashanddieraster: that was 20 fucking lines06:56
raster3 lines of paste06:56
* cehteh counts 8 lines06:56
rastererr sorry06:56
luke-jrjust stfu already -.-06:56
ShadowJKhm, can xchat do /ignore with expires?06:56
rasterand then another 2 lines06:56
crashanddieok, 14, _my bad_06:56
cehtehShadowJK: with my rxpd plugin .. not ported yet06:56
rasterplease revise your elementary arithmetic skills.06:56
luke-jr4 + 2 = 606:57
rasterPASTE was 4 and 206:57
rasterthe rest i typed myself06:57
mmgcsnewb question -> i can't figure out why i get an error when trying to apt-get update from inside scratchbox -- Failed to fetch  404 Not Found [IP: 80]06:57
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crashanddieraster: chill, and take a pill06:57
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luke-jrpaste limit tends to be 306:57
luke-jr6 = 3 * 206:57
arachnistShadowJK: "/ignore -all -replies someone_s_nick" doesn't work with xchat?06:57
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rasterif you think that my typing is too fast for youand a flood - well i'm sorry my fingers are faster than your ability to read. my bad.06:57
ShadowJKarachnist, "expires"06:57
crashanddieShadowJK: never?06:57
bobzer_hi everybody06:57
ShadowJKmmgcs, the "unknown" part looks kinda fishy06:58
crashanddieraster: last warning06:58
bobzer_i have a big problem06:58
crashanddiebobzer_: shoot06:58
bobzer_can i get some hellp ?06:58
crashanddiebobzer_: just ask mate06:58
cehtehShadowJK: .. the wiki is a bit broken06:58
bobzer_so my phone n90006:58
luke-jrraster: might inquire w/ Nokia Care for a return; just say it's not as advertised, since they claim it's open source06:58
bobzer_don't want to turn on06:58
bobzer_the battery was totally empty06:58
crashanddiebobzer_: connect it to the wall charger and leave it06:59
cehtehunfortunally the logo doesnt even come up:   :)06:59
rastercrashanddie: what? me defending myself is reason to get kicked? ytou accuse me of a 20 line paste where there were 2 lots totally 6 lines?06:59
bobzer_i put him to charge06:59
rastereither way06:59
ShadowJKbobzer_, wall charger or usb cable from computer?06:59
bobzer_yes but i don't have the wall charger with me06:59
luke-jrraster: there is no difference between 6 and 20 when it comes to a flood06:59
bobzer_i put with the usb charger06:59
rasteryou were spouting falsities. nokia are already ditching support for maemo5 - as above in bug reports.06:59
bobzer_to my computer06:59
bobzer_and i think the battery it's full know06:59
crashanddieraster: seriously, please, drop it07:00
bobzer_but when i try ti turn on07:00
rasterluke-jr: 4 and 2. as i typed manually in between its not a 6 line paste flood07:00
bobzer_sometime that's do strictly nothing07:00
luke-jrraster: just stfu and return it07:00
bobzer_and other time07:00
rastercrashanddie: so you admit they are. ok.07:00
rasterso the people bitching about nokia have a good point07:00
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bobzer_it begin to load and after a few second it turn off again07:00
cehtehraster: my plan is to ingore nokia and convince as much as possible developers to buy a n900 and code for it .. nokia will bite in their own arse when they discover that there are no devs for a successor model07:00
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crashanddiesend me a PM when you've calmed down and you're ready to talk about something else07:01
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crashanddieor remind me in 10 minutes to remove the ban if I forget07:01
DocScrutinizerforget it07:02
ali1234i agree that people bitching about nokia have good grounds for complaint07:02
DocScrutinizerhe never again will care07:02
cehtehcrashanddie: lemme say that i dont think you improve channel quality with your reactions07:02
ShadowJKbobzer_, that would suggest to me that the battery isn't charged.. and that it isn't charging from PC USB when empty07:02
arachnisttoo bad there's no other non-winmo, non-symbian (i dislike these) phone with a reasonable OS (android, maemo, heck, even iphoneos would do) and a good hardware keyboard (no, motorola droid fails here)07:02
crashanddiecehteh: duly noted07:02
DocScrutinizercehteh: +107:02
bobzer_ShadowJK: that's means my phone is empty and i can't charge it ?07:02
crashanddieYou want me to remove the ban?07:03
ShadowJKbobzer_, I only know that in theory it should switch itself on once there's enough power07:03
cehtehcrashanddie: actually i didnt want you to set it07:03
bobzer_because the orange light is turn on07:03
DocScrutinizercrashanddie: forget it. damage done07:03
crashanddiecehteh: yeah well, I wanted him to stop bitching about the thing continuously. Indeed DocScrutinizer, damage done. I asked him 2 or 3 times to stop about it07:04
ali1234i think it is kind of sad the way some people will attack dissenters by accusing them of trolling until they get so angry that they *are* trolling07:04
cehteha community channel can tolerate  some bitching .. and i left a lot channels because of overreacting ops07:04
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DocScrutinizernad rater hardly will ever join here again07:04
cehtehno one here was really annoyed or attacked ..07:04
DocScrutinizerand raster07:04
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crashanddiestupid freenode07:07
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crashanddieraster: now?07:07
rasterlet me start again07:08
crashanddiewhy didn't that first one work?07:08
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cehtehwill the middleware (dbus message for mce, bme, .. ) all change for MeeGo?07:09
crashanddiemost likely07:09
ali1234nah, i think it is unlikely07:09
rasteri am not here to troll, i'm here to actualyl do useful stuff07:09
rasteri write lots of softwre - for embedded07:09
rasterit runs like a champ on competitors devices07:09
rasterthe n900 - it has troubles with - i submit bug reports07:10
crashanddiedunno about M6, but looking at the discussions a lot of people are pushing for the Moblin infrastructure and base07:10
cehtehhehe means anything we write will be incompatible .. haha07:10
rasteri cant send patches - drivers are closed.07:10
cehtehwell i dont care that much :) .. but that will have interesting implications07:10
crashanddiecehteh: well, it's a new framework, so that's to be expected that there will be porting involved07:10
lpotternope. raster is not a troll. he's never worked for trolltech07:10
rasterbut - i also am concerned about the future of the n900 and maemo given that its now not worht me putting effort into debian packaging as i know that in the future that will change07:10
rasterhow much of my stuff will still work in future without a fair amount of work07:11
crashanddielpotter: that one is getting old...07:11
cehtehyes but i dont port anything to meego if i dont have a meego device07:11
crashanddielpotter: but still "lol"07:11
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rasterlpotter: hahahahahah07:11
crashanddiecehteh: which I think will be the case for most people07:11
rasterlpotter:  hey hey! ltns!07:11
ShadowJKSomehow I suspect that if debian packaging takes significant "effort", something must be wrong with it and it's a good idea to fix it :)07:11
crashanddieI didn't do that one07:11
crashanddieI promise07:11
crashanddieI barely hit the enter key07:11
cehtehand that may put some pressure to nokia to support meego on the n90007:12
crashanddiecehteh: well, a lot of people were developing for M5/N900 before the device was out07:12
lpotteri dont think nokia has said one way or another for meego on the n90007:12
ali1234moblin middleware just isn't that different from maemo, and if anything it is closer to the standard distros07:12
crashanddiecehteh: they just need to target a few key developers, people who do very interesting and high-visibility stuff07:12
cehtehyes because they planned to buy that device07:12
ShadowJKraster, not sure the driver situation is any better on beagleboard either :/07:12
crashanddiecehteh: oh c'mon, Nokia's given away close to 500 devices07:12
cehtehbut a lot of them certainly dont plan to buy the successor just half an year later07:12
cehtehprolly even 100007:13
crashanddiecehteh: I never paid for mine07:13
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crashanddiecehteh: I know two dozen of people who didn't pay for theirs07:13
ShadowJKAlthough I heard there some people actually manage to get hold of the drivers occasionally... binaries, that is07:13
cehtehi did07:13
cehtehlets see07:13
cehtehthe developers community is far bigger (and should be far bigger) than this 500-1000 people07:14
cehteheven if someone people just to very little things (like me)07:14
ShadowJKWell for me the rumoured capacitive display will be a big hit to usability, plus the rumoured same omap3 platform wouldn't be much of an upgrade... so meh :)07:14
ShadowJKnevermind the OS, it's fine as it is..07:14
rasterShadowJK: i dont think it is. there's a general upsteram issue and the fact that the base drivers as they come from imgtec need modification to work with x11 - and those mods dont always seems to be done... "optimally" lets say.07:14
crashanddieraster: don't the drivers come from TI?07:15
ShadowJKi guess they distribute them.. if you're worthy07:15
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crashanddieStskeeps: didn't you get updated 3D drivers for the N810?07:15
cehtehraster: do you have access to the imgtec drivers (even with NDA) ..07:15
ShadowJKI've heard of 3d drivers existing for SmartQ too, but I don't even have any idea where to start looking for them :)07:15
cehtehyou may try to put some samsung or other driver on the n900 if its not too much pain07:16
rasterlpotter: btw - that was my pont to crashanddie  - people are complaining because they just bought a brand new device with abrand new os then nokia rolls around announcing a "left turn at Albuquerque" with meego and no firm "we will make meego available for n900 users and provide a forwards compatibility path" i think thats what people want to hear. a commitment to support.07:16
rastercrashanddie: well yes and no.07:16
cehtehwell .. other things to do .. bbl07:16
crashanddieraster: I do realise that07:16
rastercrashanddie: they come from imgtec, then to ti - nokia somewhere along the way i think get the source and modify them more.07:16
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rastercehteh:  not the n900 ones - but for another soc i do... :)07:17
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cehtehthere is a dim chance that they are compatible if the soc is close enough?07:17
lpotterraster: think big, lumbering beast07:17
cehtehof course you can only try privately as proof of concept07:17
crashanddieraster: my initial point was, 5 or 6 years ago i bought a samsung phone. it had issues, but I lived with it. People didn't really care too much about it. New version of the OS? It's a phone dude, that doesn't happen.07:18
rastercehteh: and they wont work a-sis. sgc540 vs 530, differen fb subsystem as its samsung fb vs omap fb - so i'd have to do a fair bit of fiddling with them to get them to work... not tm mentio also get the xorg we work with thats dri2 based etc.07:18
crashanddieNow, Nokia is trying to be open (and for a corporation like nokia that's a very difficult thing to do)07:18
crashanddieand the only thing they get for it being yelled at and bitched at07:18
rastercrashanddie:  that is indeed true. but things are changing - phones are less "device" and more "computer than makes calls" and thats why platforms are what its all about now - and a platform lasts for more than 1 device. :)07:18
crashanddiemy conclusion was thus: no wonder Nokia is dumping the maemo community, considering that most of what they get from it is a lot of shit in their face07:18
crashanddieraster: well, it never did in my mind...07:19
rasterlpotter: lumbering beast... gl-es?07:19
crashanddieI knew Maemo 5 would be on Nokia N900 only07:19
crashanddiewell, most likely, and that Maemo 6 would most probably not be compatible with the N90007:19
cehtehits a pita... TI isnt exactly an open source friendly company, and yet so much OS projects depend on it07:20
rastercrashanddie: well its a change. look at android, iphoneos even. iphone os works and ans spans multiple generations of hw - even from apple07:20
cehtehi guess even nokia cant do much on the contracts they made with TI07:20
ShadowJKcehteh, for some things they're friendlier than many ;)07:20
crashanddiesure, "I knew about it" isn't a viable argument, I'm just surprised that kind of info didn't circulate more than that07:20
rasternokia did do multi-gen suport for n800 and 81007:20
raster770 to a degree07:20
rasteri think peolpe want more07:20
luke-jrcehteh: afaik, TI isn't the problem anymore07:20
luke-jrcehteh: it's Nokia and ImgTec07:20
rasterand yes - u'll have the vocal minority who absolutely must have 100% open everything07:20
crashanddieraster: n810 only one OS, n800 two OSs, 770 3 OSs07:20
cehtehShadowJK: there are plenty of cases where TI uses GPL software but doesnt releases the source and so on07:20
ShadowJKluke-jr, IVA2 is still closed :)07:20
rasterits par of the course07:21
cehtehluke-jr: for the graphics yes07:21
crashanddiecehteh: if they don't modify it do they have to?07:21
luke-jrShadowJK: IVA2?07:21
luke-jrcehteh: for something as basic as battery charging07:21
cehtehbut for other things like the camera firmware, broadband and stuff TI is the problem07:21
anotnacthere only people who dont care about n900 road map are people who got free or discounted devices. ppl who paid full wack are more vocal07:21
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rastercrashanddie: anyway - i'm smack bang in the middle of the evolution from an os u "make work" for a device - ship it and forget vs platforms. its a change in thinking - nokia has to adapt. samsung has to. everyone has to.07:22
crashanddieanotnac: or people who don't consider £500 "full wack"07:22
ShadowJKluke-jr, hardware elements for video decode acceleration. Most likely DCT, MC and that stuff. Building blocks07:22
cehtehi paied full and put much more development efforts (man hours) into it than its worth07:22
cehtehthat gives me the right to bitch about it!07:22
DocScrutinizerraster: ack07:23
crashanddieI've been saying this way too often: "Opinions are like assholes -- everyone's got one. Now that doesn't mean you should shove your up my face, does it?"07:23
anotnaci dont care about getting new OS on mine i just want it to have the future its being promisede, for that we can only wait07:23
infobotcrashanddie meant: I've been saying this way too often: "Opinions are like assholes -- everyone's got one. Now that doesn't mean you should shove yours up my face, does it?"07:23
* luke-jr shoves his opinion down crashanddie's ear.07:23
ShadowJKcehteh, SmartQ comes with binary samsung kernel module and a binary patched MPlayer (GPL) for which I've not been able to find source... Not really wanted to ask though, I guess I just like that it works :/07:23
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crashanddieluke-jr: You shoved me in the ear!07:24
ShadowJKluke-jr, sometimes I'm glad they keep the battery stuff away from lunatics like you ;-)07:24
crashanddieluke-jr: why the ear? Oh man07:24
cehtehShadowJK: then beat raster a bit about the issues :P07:24
luke-jrShadowJK: f u07:24
rasterShadowJK: :)07:24
rastercehteh:  that kernel didnt come from me :)07:24
luke-jrraster: Linux copyright holders don't enforce it ;(07:24
crashanddieShadowJK: play nice07:24
rasterluke-jr: they should07:25
cehtehi saied 'a bit' .. maybe you have a little voice there07:25
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rastercehteh:  not at all. smartq are the people who do the software. and they deal with samsung lsi07:25
rasteri work with samsung dmc07:25
cehtehah ok07:25
rasterand even then just the limo/linu etc. group07:25
rasterdont ask abaout bada - not my thing07:25
rasteretc. etc.07:25
ShadowJKraster, so is your samsung involved in sponsoring the only kind of sports I watch?07:25
rasteri cam shape the future of things from this corner07:26
cehtehhaha bada is the worst thing i seen .. yet another completely propietary platform ..07:26
rasterand to me - not just following the letter of the license, but the spirit is damned important07:26
cehtehwtf did they thought/smoke07:26
rasteri know i wont get rid of all the closed binary bits07:26
rasterbut - if the license demands it - it must be open07:26
rasterand if tis the right thing to do07:26
raster(bsd or mit-x11 license, but you modified it anyway) you SHOULD publish your soruce07:26
anotnacanyone having wifi problems with latest update on n900? just stopping working but being connected?07:27
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rasterbut more important than just source... is actively engaging your community - on a develoepr to developer level07:27
cehtehanotnac: iirc such a bug was fixed there07:27
rasteractually talking with them, answering questions, giving direction etc.07:27
ShadowJKanotnac, I had that occasionally (well, two times since december) before the upgrade.. hasn't happend since07:27
DocScrutinizerraster: ack07:28
anotnaci'm getting it daily since 1.1.1 could it be b/c i restored a old back up made from with shipping firmware 4207:28
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DocScrutinizerI know I repeat myself :-P07:28
cehtehraster: yeah imo nokia needs to *employ* a community manager on the same level as a CTO .. who actualy has the access to tech stuff and decide if it makes sense to publish it07:29
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crashanddiecehteh: quim doesn't have anything of the level of a CTO07:29
DocScrutinizerI thought they actually have such a manager07:29
crashanddiethey do07:30
cehtehthere is no (much) point in having people here who work for nokia but dont have any rights and access, not even communication possibilities07:30
ShadowJKcehteh, uh.07:30
ShadowJKcehteh, that's not true07:30
cehtehcrashanddie: that what i mean .. a commuminty manager should have enough privileges to do his work07:30
crashanddiecehteh: dude, do you realise how high up CTO is in a company as Nokia?07:31
ShadowJKYou don't really mean to tell everyone else to piss off, do you07:31
mmgcsmade it past what appears to be an incorrect hildon-application-manager.list but am now getting a GPG error - GPG error: fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'07:31
cehtehif he doesnt know whats going on inside nokia and doesnt know whom to ask07:31
crashanddiecehteh: hell, even in my company CTO is probably as important as CEO, that person doesn't have time to cuddle community people07:31
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cehtehyes i know07:32
ali1234the problem is cuddles don't fix bugs07:32
ali1234i wish they did but they don't07:32
crashanddieand neither a community manager nor a CTO will change that07:33
rastercehteh: community manager - agree. or cto or whoever needs to take on that role. either way - someoen with the ability to deicde what to say and who knows the directions etc.07:33
crashanddiewe have that07:33
anotnaci've had a few cuddles that spread bugs07:33
cehtehthats what i meant07:33
crashanddiehis name is Quim Gil, and knows more about the platform and future than any of us together07:33
ShadowJKi thought they just announced the direction and the direction is "qt 4.6 everywhere, including N900, and even on non-nokia devices" :P07:33
crashanddieand thanks to the stupid reactions of the community, that person has just retired from being a moderator on the forums07:34
crashanddieso congrats, again, Maemo Community, you've done well07:34
lpotterShadowJK: ++07:34
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cehtehcrashanddie: Quim is has such a job, but he is clueless because he has not the contacts and rights to make decisions .. at best he just forwards things to some other monkey07:34
crashanddiecehteh: oh please, don't insult him like that07:35
RST38hAn hello to you all.07:35
DocScrutinizerthere's a reason OM never had an official forum. Everybody thought clinging with mailing lists would be a sane thing07:35
cehtehi dont want to insult him .. he does the best job he can do07:35
RST38hSo, who has retired, again? Quim?07:35
crashanddiecehteh: Quim is very well connected. He didn't join Nokia because he happened to stumble across a job offer07:35
rasterwell no community relations guy who can put to rest speculation on the future of the n900 and meego/maemo - then the speculation will continue and be rife. fud will continue. such a community manager should put to rest such stuff early-on before it grows a life of its own and people actually really believe the fud - and nokia is too late to say otherwise as its not wedged in peoples minds. the fud has filled the position. nokia cant change i07:35
rastert anymore :(07:35
cehtehi want to insult nokia that they dont give him with enough respect and privileges07:35
crashanddieRST38h: from being a mod07:35
RST38hcrashanddie: Pissed him off one time too many?07:36
crashanddieRST38h: people pissing all over him, saying that there was a conflict of interest with him being a mod and working for nokia07:36
anotnacquim is in a hard place, if hays too much bosses will be unhappy if he says too little community think nokia are hiding things, its lose lose for him07:36
cehtehfro quim its prolly a uphill battle .. demands from the community and fight with nokia bureacracy07:36
anotnac*he says07:36
RST38hcrashanddie: Ah, The Conspiracy again!07:36
crashanddieRST38h: oh ja07:36
* lpotter knows what it feels like to be a community manager07:37
rasterlpotter: i know you do :)07:37
crashanddiegotta finish expense reports...07:38
rasterlpotter: hard place >| you |< rock07:38
lpotterraster: indeed. keyboard. meet head.07:38
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DocScrutinizerhmm, me remembers a lot of flames for LJP07:39
rasterlpotter: it would be easier if u could actually make decisions and change direction - or talk about things "as you see fit" (as opposed to have to get approval for anything you may say :) (beyond a minimal approved subset))07:39
lpottertrue. but really, the n900/meego thing I think its a matter of resources.07:41
DocScrutinizereverything is, always07:41
rasterlpotter: the sooner nokia set that baby to rest, the better.07:41
rasterlpotter: me - i'm just mostly observing. my n900 is a toy... until my own toys are out :)07:42
lpotterdo we allocate resources for meego on the n900 and possibly make the next device late?07:42
rasterbut i'd like to see all the "linux platforms" play nice07:42
lpotterthus costing lots of $$$07:42
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rasterlpotter: you have that few people?07:42
* RST38h yawns and points to Stskeeps07:43
ShadowJKI wonder how much would be saved on skipping the software "variants" *cough*07:43
rasteror you commit to back-porting after next device is released - thus postponing the cost07:43
ShadowJKusers would rejoice :D07:43
RST38hHere is your resource, allocated to porting Maemo (and MeeGo I guess) to older devices.07:43
lpotterthere are also planing timeboxes and such07:44
RST38hGiven that MeeGo sources are published of course.07:44
rasterRST38h: sure - pay him for it :)07:44
rasterthat means he's an added resource - and an added cost - like any other employee07:44
lpotternot to mention QA07:44
RST38hraster: Guess what? Nokia is paying him for it.07:44
rasteri thought it was stuff?07:44
RST38hOk, is paying him for it. A technicality.07:45
rasterwell as long as he has acces to the sources to be able to do it07:45
rasterand the time and reosucres - done07:45
rasterthen why doesnt nokia go "we have Stskeeps on the job of doing that when the time comes"07:45
rasterpeople will be happy07:45
RST38hpeople will never be happy07:45
ShadowJKraster, he has his own "Don't worry, you're in good hands, and this is why:" thread, not that people read :P07:46
rasterwell- happier.07:46
DocScrutinizerRST38h: raster: ShadowJK:
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RST38has an example, you can look in the mirror and count the number of lines starting with <raster> in the last 5 minutes at this channel.07:46
timeless_mbpShadowJK: 98% of nokians know nothing about variants07:47
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, I gathered :D07:48
ali1234in that thread i see Stskeeps asking the same questions everyone else is asking. except you praise him, instead of calling him a troll07:48
timeless_mbpthey're only looked at by perhaps 10 people worldwide :)07:48
timeless_mbpso, i don't think it saves much 'work'07:48
timeless_mbpit would save community headaches07:48
timeless_mbpbut it would create sales headaches07:48
anotnaconly problem is if you flash you device with non-nokia official images you void warranty i believe so users still stuck what to do07:48
timeless_mbpand sales headaches immediately transfer into engineering headaches07:48
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MiXu-timeless_mbp: I'd say 10 is a bit of an understatement07:49
timeless_mbpRST38h: isn't an actual entity, so, Nokia is paying.07:49
DocScrutinizerI wonder how flashing a firmware could void the hw waranty07:49
timeless_mbpMiXu-: i don't think i've met 307:49
timeless_mbpi know there are perhaps 2 testers07:49
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: companies claim things that aren't legal07:49
MiXu-timeless_mbp: Someone has to do translation too :)07:49
DocScrutinizerI *can* see why Nokia hopes this could be established for a common notion though07:50
timeless_mbpMiXu-: no07:50
timeless_mbptranslation has nothing to do w/ variants07:50
timeless_mbpand besides, that's not internal07:50
MiXu-timeless_mbp: (I've been mostly idling here) :)07:50
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MiXu-Oh, ok. I thought localization was about the same thing as variants.07:50
timeless_mbptotally unrelated07:50
timeless_mbpvariants are about breaking software to satisfy theoretical market constraints07:51
MiXu-So, AT&T ? ;)07:51
timeless_mbplike "i want to have a link to the privacy policy instead of the policy"07:51
DocScrutinizerafter all that's the point where even EE has to change thinking to accomodate FOSS requirements07:51
timeless_mbpMiXu-: or that07:51
DocScrutinizervery unusual requirement for EE07:52
DocScrutinizeror make that R&D07:52
ShadowJK"unbrickable" and indestructible by software? :-)07:52
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DocScrutinizernot even by a flawed batchrg driver07:52
MiXu-Fremantle is not quite there yet. lol =)07:53
ShadowJKMiXu-, I think it's close07:53
rasterRST38h: he just asks questions. provides no answers.07:53
ShadowJKis there anything else than the warning about running CPU locked to 600MHz? :-)07:53
rasterand people would like answers07:53
rasterhe asks good questions - Stskeeps is a smaret guya nd knows his stuff07:53
rasterbut desnt solve the problem07:53
* timeless_mbp wonders who 'he' is07:54
rastertimeless_mbp:  Stskeeps07:54
timeless_mbpwhat problem do we have today?07:54
MiXu-Extras-devel has stuff that will more or less break N900 (or at least screw some things up).07:54
RST38hraster: What answers do you expect on a project that is nothing more than a web site and a mailing list?07:54
ShadowJKMiXu-, sure, but it's recoverable with flashing07:54
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: now that I got schem, I guess I can spot a few more :-P07:54
RST38hOnce the MeeGo sources are published, there will be answers07:54
rasterRST38h: mer or maemo?07:54
rasteroh meego07:55
timeless_mbpbah. :)07:55
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, N8x0 should be easy-ish to explode from software :D07:55
rasterthats part of the badly executed announcement for meego07:55
MiXu-ShadowJK: Oh, ok I guess I misunderstood you then. I figured "indestructible" would mean that it has to be usable no matter what.07:55
cehtehRST38h: do you have any new xchat package planned next time?07:55
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: lol, really?07:55
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rasterit creates uncertainty with a big blaring trumpet - with no answers.07:55
rasterthus - the situation at hand07:55
ali1234i totally agree07:55
RST38hraster: It creates an uncertainty indeed, but YOU bring YOUR OWN trumptet =)07:56
ShadowJKMiXu-, no it means salvageable with a PC/Mac and the included acessories ;)07:56
RST38hcehteh: I will probably have to disable clickable notifications, so yes07:56
MiXu-alright, then it is in pretty good shape. :)07:56
RST38hcehteh; A lot of people are unhappy about these07:56
rasterif meego was announced along with "and here is the plan fro mameo5 to meego and how it will transition - what products wil be supported that are currently maemo 5 etc. etc." it would have been much quieter and more certain07:56
ShadowJKMiXu-, instead of needing to access the pads behind the battery with special equipment and special software when you break it07:56
RST38hraster: such a transition has been announced.07:56
timeless_mbpraster: err07:57
cehtehhehe yes i expected that, you know where to change it?07:57
timeless_mbpif meego was announced like that07:57
RST38hraster: You just have not read07:57
rasterRST38h: mwc201 brought a big loudspeaker :)07:57
timeless_mbppeople would complain "how dare you not consult with us!"07:57
timeless_mbppeople will complain no matter what07:57
MiXu-ShadowJK: Yep. I'm familiar with that stuff. :)07:57
cehtehits configureable anyways .. echo "NOTIFY_MODE -d" >.xchat2/maemo_notify.conf07:57
rasterRST38h:  where? where is the bit that involves how the n900 users will be supported? seriously - i want to know.07:57
RST38hraster: Harmattan stands Debian, with debs, but gets renamed from Maemo6 to MeeGo07:57
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I almost did it accidentally. Apparently sometimes when the battery daemon decides to abort() (and if I wouldn't have fiddled with R&D mode the device would have reset itself), it does so for a good reason :)07:58
RST38hraster: Next devices will be fully MeeGo based07:58
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RST38hraster: This has been announced by Quim Gil among other people.07:58
rasterthats a name only. its not really meego as it sstill debian07:58
* RST38h sighs07:58
RST38hcehteh: Needs to be set by default or people get lost.07:58
cehtehRST38h: well another thing, i like to have the window title changed having "XChat: nickname @ network #channel" there .. the "XChat: nickname @" part is quite redundant07:58
timeless_mbpraster: marketing forced the branding change07:58
timeless_mbpthat's life07:58
ShadowJKI'm not overly optimistic that there will be a unified MeeGo in the sense of a distribution :/07:58
timeless_mbpShadowJK: i'd expect it to take 18months minimum07:59
cehtehRST38h: yes you can just flip a int in the plugin init function07:59
rastertimeless_mbp:  sure. i understand the why behind it07:59
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: poor EE performance. Such critical systems have to operate autonomously07:59
timeless_mbpit should happen07:59
RST38hShadowJK: Neither do I, knowing how Intel works.07:59
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I'm sure it saved money and complexity for the cheapphones :)07:59
timeless_mbpraster: you'd prefer the announcement include "yes, we're idiots, no, you shouldn't buy our first X products, please wait until we run out of cash" ?07:59
timeless_mbpthat seems like a sound business plan08:00
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: sure it did, but then OTOH cheapfones aren't FOSS08:00
timeless_mbphow do i subscribe to your newsletter?08:00
ali1234i'd prefer the announcement contain answers to the questions raised by Stskeeps08:00
cehteh  maemo_notify_private.dialog_enable = 1; ... = 0;08:00
* timeless_mbp would have preferred announcements to be drafted by competent people and presented by people who can speak coherently08:00
timeless_mbpwe all have preferences08:00
timeless_mbpwe're all bound to be disappointed, some more than others08:00
RST38hBy nude blondes, yes08:01
timeless_mbpRST38h: you missed your chance in Sydney earlier this week08:01
anotnaca wer meego t-shirt comp to kick it off08:01
RST38hcehteh: I am not sure about the window title thing: This is how original XChat does it08:01
cehtehRST38h: the window title thing nags me quite much because there is not enough space to read the channel name on my device, can you change that or shall i send you a patch?08:01
RST38hcehteh: It also happens to be a valid URI ;)08:01
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, so even though I'd want the sauce to this battery soup myself, the thought of random people fiddling with it on their N8x0's is damn scary :)08:02
RST38hcehteh: I can probably change it, trivially, but am hesitant08:02
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: so it is on N90008:02
rastertimeless_mbp: well if the end rsult is the same - peole feel they have been lied to and at the end thats worse than coming clean. but i think in the end the push is "we are your userbase - support us with your future os's (within reason) - and if you choose not to - you can watch us walk away as we feel you have screwed us"08:02
cehtehuhm i thought about disabling the channel switcher .. but for that one needs the channel name in the title (readable)08:02
rasterso if nokia wants to keepits loyal fans it needs to try and make them happy08:02
rasterit can choose not to.08:02
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, quickly looking at it, I thought it looked like there's an actual battery charging chip in there :)08:02
ShadowJKlike, a hardware one08:02
rasterbut there are consequences.08:03
timeless_mbpraster: yeah well08:03
RST38hcehteh: Channel switcher is pretty decent, in default config08:03
timeless_mbpjust because nokia does X doesn't mean engineering agrees08:03
RST38hno reason to disable it08:03
cehtehRST38h: this is currently something i really want to change, but maybe configureable and retain the current way ba default08:03
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: so probably another case of sw-devels not up to par with hw/EE08:03
timeless_mbpwhat lie do you think you were given?08:03
rastertimeless_mbp: i dont say that enigneering is even at fault. :)08:03
cehtehRST38h: its not with many channels08:03
rasterletalone agrees/condones08:03
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: cargo cult programming08:03
timeless_mbpat no point in time has anyone *promised* maemo6 or some other platform would run on the n90008:04
timeless_mbpthere i believe have been promises about service releases for the n90008:04
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cehtehscrolling there is very inconvinient and it takes a lot space08:04
timeless_mbpand occasional leaks about what might be fixed/included in an upcoming service release08:04
MiXu-The last statement that I saw from a nokian said "We don't know" about whether N900 will be supported by Meego.08:04
rastertimeless_mbp:  no lie - yet. community wants a "support the device i just bought from you with your future os's and you've announced a farily radical os change right after shipping this device - i'd like to know you dont plan to abandon me"08:04
timeless_mbp(among other things, maps will suck less in the next service release)08:04
cehtehand maybe you try it scrolling is very slow when you have the tabs style on either side and not tree or top/bottom08:05
timeless_mbpraster: i don't plan to abandon you for many months08:05
timeless_mbpthat's the best you could possibly get08:05
cehtehmaybe a bug? .. dunno08:05
timeless_mbpeach product nokia has shipped has had at least a 1 year shelf life so far08:05
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timeless_mbpand each product has been relatively useful for another 2 or so years thereafter08:05
MiXu-timeless_mbp: Do you know if navigation will be introduced?08:06
timeless_mbpi don't know of any top of the line phones which actually last 3 years08:06
rastertimeless_mbp: doesnt say much about the whole meego affair - thats what nokia + intel announced specifically to grab attention - so it'd got mine.. now what? :)08:06
timeless_mbpMiXu-: what's navigation?08:06
MiXu-timeless_mbp: Routing + turn-by-turn guidance08:06
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cehtehtimeless: huh .. i expect to use my n900 for the years coming ..08:06
timeless_mbpMiXu-: the original maps app included routing08:06
rasteranyway - thats just what the whole thinbg is about - lack of clear direction08:06
timeless_mbpraster: i think the goal was to distract attention from competing platforms08:06
rasteri loook at mameo news08:06
ali1234timeless_mbp: my winmo phone had two updates from carrier over the course of 2 years, and the community is still doing cooked roms for it to this day08:07
cehtehi mean more than 3 years08:07
MiXu-timeless_mbp: Yeah, but it's impossible to use while driving because it doesn't do turn-by-turn guidance.08:07
timeless_mbpand ask you to join in meego development for the future08:07
rasternothing about meego :(08:07
timeless_mbpMiXu-: ah well, eh,08:07
timeless_mbpdo i  need a car?08:07
timeless_mbpbecause i don't have a license08:07
MiXu-I do. :)08:07
timeless_mbp(or a car)08:07
ShadowJKMiXu-, I think the bigger issue is that it doesn't re-calculate the route when you deviate from it, you have to find your own way back instead of, say, being guided back to the route, or taken on an alternate route since you rejected its proposal with your actions :)08:08
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MiXu-ShadowJK: That's a major issue as well08:08
timeless_mbpMiXu-: its strings still suck08:08
timeless_mbpi can promise you that08:08
timeless_mbpis that helpful? :)08:08
MiXu-timeless_mbp: Slightly helpful, yes. But it's still not the thing I need. :)08:08
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, can you drop hints to the UI people responsible for ovi maps on maemo that their icons are inexplicably cryptic to decipher? ;D08:09
MiXu-Yes they are!08:09
pwnguinwhat's crytpic about a large and small line?08:09
timeless_mbpShadowJK: i literally spelled those hints out months ago08:09
MiXu-And the UI logic is pretty cryptic as well08:09
ShadowJKtimeless, ah okay, plan B: slice of lemon wrapped around a brick08:09
timeless_mbpi think i gave them a list of about 100 problems08:09
ShadowJKlol, awesome08:10
timeless_mbpShadowJK: the maps people are in Berlin08:10
timeless_mbpmost of you are probably closer to them than i am08:10
timeless_mbpplease feel free to track them down and give them … something08:10
ShadowJKfinnish beer?08:10
crashanddieget another one08:11
timeless_mbpShadowJK: :)08:11
crashanddieand that works for both the misspelling of "finish" and "Finnish"08:11
RST38hHmm...the Buzz buzz has quited down08:11
RST38hNo more buzzes, or almost none08:11
* timeless_mbp ponders08:11
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timeless_mbpi think i need to shoot them another nastygram08:11
RST38hSend pupnik with a Molotov cocktail08:12
timeless_mbpthey don't quite understand how 'sheets' are supposed to work08:12
timeless_mbpthey decided to put a sheet *behind* something08:12
* timeless_mbp shakes head08:12
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ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, oh, the blue arrow key (Fn) behaves differently in Maps, it's not sticky08:12
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: decent weed08:12
MiXu-If someone thinks maps ui is good, they obviously never tried it :D08:12
timeless_mbpShadowJK: it should behave roughly the same way as in the browser08:13
timeless_mbpif it doesn't, there's something even more wrong floating around08:13
* timeless_mbp goes off to hunt a Finn08:13
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, the implication is that .fi beer is a punishment for them08:14
SpeedEvilmaps breaks the UI in so many ways08:14
RST38hMiXu: Maep UI is good.08:14
timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer: Finnish beer is generally considered tantamount to piss08:14
timeless_mbpMaep ui is awesome08:14
SpeedEvilforex - how do I change away from it while it loads.08:15
DocScrutinizermake them drive all around brandenburg with their own maps only, and NO beverages until they find home08:15
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* Stskeeps yawns08:15
RST38hShadowJK: Fn key is not sticky in my apps either. It happens when you access keys below the input plugin08:15
DocScrutinizermoin Stskeeps :-D08:15
MiXu-Does maep do routing?08:15
Stskeepsbacklog containing my nick and 'troll', excellent08:15
timeless_mbpStskeeps: not worth reading08:16
RST38hShadowJK: In my case, I am processing Gdk Up/Down events08:16
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, nope, can't get press fn, release fn, press something else to work as expected (something else producing the blue symbol from that key).. needs to be done as press and hold fn while simultaneously pressing other key..08:16
RST38hStskeeps: Glad you like it =)08:16
cehtehwhen i had a finish friend as guest some years ago he hand nothing better to do than getting a map (dead tree variant) and mark any place he drank a beer here :P08:16
MiXu-haha, sounds like a finn ;)08:16
ShadowJKStskeeps, skip it, it's a better morning that way08:16
Stskeepsfwiw i'm not doing official work, it's community work and nokia sponsors a community position :P08:16
cehtehtoday you prolly set waypoints :)08:16
RST38hShadowJK: Now you got him wondering.08:16
MiXu-A more practical Finn would also have written down the prices of pints ;)08:17
ShadowJKMiXu-, and calculated alcohol per euro08:17
cehtehthere is not so much variance here08:17
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cehtehand prolly all much cheaper than in finland08:17
Stskeepsi'm paid to have the community agenda and ask questions in a constructive way and help things :)08:17
ali1234Stskeeps: so did you get answers to those three questions yet?08:17
MiXu-ShadowJK: yes :)08:18
RST38hStskeeps: elaborate on the "help things" part =)08:18
StskeepsRST38h: not before coffee08:18
Stskeepsali1234: Quim's LTS support thread on meego-dev is a fork from some of these08:19
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: hope you can make a living out of that08:19
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, oh, it works after I tap the input field, but not if I just start typing, because the cursor is in the input field and I assume that it should "just work" since the right hting appears to already have focus.. maybe08:19
ali1234Stskeeps: uh huh. and did he answer any of them?08:19
Stskeepsali1234: my questions are also meant as expectations from community to nokia as a hw vendor in a open project.08:20
ali1234yeah i get that. so where are the answers?08:20
timeless_mbpShadowJK: i'd imagine you could write a browser hosted web page which would suffer the same08:21
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ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, I think with browser the issue I encounter the most often is that I start typing something and then suddenly it's all in the address bar :)08:22
Stskeepsali1234: so why are you asking me? i'm not a nokia official and frankly happy i am not :)08:22
timeless_mbpShadowJK: you realize there's a user option for that?08:22
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, really?08:22
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: WELL DON'T THEY PAY YOU GOOD FOR THE STUFF THAT YOU DO? *"Well, you know, I can' t complain when the checks come through..." <FZ, titties & beer> ;-P08:22
Stskeepsali1234: that post was made cos people were asking in east and west instead of focusing on the core issue.08:23
timeless_mbpShadowJK: if you're using my strings, it's: tap title bar, tap options, tap options, uncheck 'typing triggers urlbar'08:23
timeless_mbpif you aren't using my strings, i'm sorry08:23
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, I'm pretty sure that in 50% of those cases stuff was alreayd appearing in some input box on a web page, and then jumped to the address bar... it's making me doubt my sanity.. possibly I'm already insane ;)08:23
ali1234Stskeeps: well, like the msg said, i am confused why you get 3000+ thanks for asking these questions but raster catches a bunch of flak08:24
timeless_mbpShadowJK: check the checkbox08:24
timeless_mbpif it's checked....08:24
Stskeepsali1234: raster has an inflammatory personality at times but he's a cool guy?08:24
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: Stskeeps: WELL DON'T THEY PAY YOU GOOD FOR THE STUFF THAT YOU DO *"Well, you know, I can' t complain when the checks come through..." <FZ, titties & beer> ;-P08:24
ShadowJK"Auto focus address field"... this sounds like a weird bugfix to one of the top voted diablo browser bugs about ^L not giving focus to address bar by default..08:24
Stskeeps(i did not read whole backlog)08:25
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: yes, and i think i do a good job too :P08:25
timeless_mbpShadowJK: our business owner demanded the feature08:25
timeless_mbpand demanded it be on by default08:25
timeless_mbpwe tried to explain just how bad of an idea it was08:25
ShadowJKI guess the "autofocus" might activate after device inactivity / screen off, that'd explain the "wtf" experience :)08:25
timeless_mbpthe best we got is the option to get rid of the behavior08:25
rasterStskeeps: crashanddie stood on my tail and called me a troll (said i was trolling).08:26
timeless_mbpShadowJK: screen clearing probably removes focus from the web page input field08:26
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SpeedEvilraster: you are a troll. Just better informed than most trolls.08:26
timeless_mbpwhich means that if you try typing, you aren't anywhere, and yeah, autofocus would kick in08:26
rastercrashanddie: hahahahahahhaha08:26
rasterSpeedEvil: hahahahahahaha08:26
RST38hraster: and you weren't?08:26
rasteri wasnt08:26
Stskeepswhat SpeedEvil said ;)08:26
* RST38h thinks of ducks08:27
DocScrutinizerraster: now that little gnome in that appartment in TPE was *you*?! ;-)08:27
ShadowJKtimeless_mbp, I'm usually not that bad at finglish, but nokia is really good at pushing the envelope here... :-)08:27
timeless_mbpShadowJK: upgrade to my strings08:28
rasterdidnt use ad hominem comments nor did i say anything that doesnt have substance08:28
rasterdidnt do it to cause maximum disruption08:28
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timeless_mbpraster: you didn't do it to cause maximum disruption?08:28
timeless_mbpwhat result were you expecting?08:28
rasteractually expressed agreement with other people with an opinion that crashanddie was railing at quite rudely08:29
timeless_mbpis the claim that it was minimal disruption because of the time of day?08:29
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rasterie "I say, fuck Maemo as a community08:29
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rastertimeless_mbp: standing up for the people he was saying "fuck you" to.08:30
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rasterbecause they in general have a legitimate concern he happens tonot agree with.08:30
rasteri wasnt trolling08:30
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Stskeepsraster: had a bit of sarcasm, sorry :)08:31
rasterif the result of disagreeing with someopne who has ops is to be labelled a troll - perhaps i should bow out of maemo entirely as it seems people with dissenting opinions are not desired. :)08:31
Stskeepsraster: a publically traded can't say meego on X will come when X's ARM port is in bootstrapping phase08:32
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Stskeepsthey'll do this when they know they can delivery08:32
ali1234fwiw i think community meego on n900 will be a lot easier than what mer project has previously had to deal with08:32
rasterStskeeps: at least a statement of intention to do it would help. :)08:32
rasterits just people want a "there there. it'll be all right. no one's going to hurt you" from nokia - one that feels like it has meaning08:33
rastersure - shit happens. they lose people, have delays, things go wrong - things become late.08:33
Stskeepsand sue their asses if they were wrong? :P08:33
rasteras long as there is intent to do good - thats a big plus :)08:33
Stskeepsraster: i don't worry cos we have very open channels to get things running08:33
SpeedEvilStskeeps: These open channels.08:34
SpeedEvilStskeeps: are they blood gutters?08:34
Stskeepsin meego, nokia would be a hw vendor and has to act like a responsible ones08:34
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: :-P08:34
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ali1234i think even if nokia came straight out and said "we will not do it, sorry" that would be less damaging than remaining silent08:35
Stskeepsthey do that at times. see fremantle alpha sdk08:36
Stskeepser, pre alpha08:36
rasterthats fair enough08:36
ali1234well, sure, but maemo was a lot smaller back then, and the new hardware actually did new things08:36
rasteror even saying "we intend to provide the tools to the community to be able to support themselves"08:37
rastereg drivers etc. etc.08:37
ali1234adding a phone to the mix is a much bigegr change than just adding a capacitive screen or w/e08:37
Stskeepsraster: hence my questions and discussion we need to have08:37
rasterStskeeps: go do it! :) seen the q's - i think the community is after answers to just such q's. :)08:38
rasterand - until there are.. i suspect there is little u can do for people inventing whatever truth they come up with :) (fact of life on this here internets thing) :)08:38
* RST38h sighs again08:38
timeless_mbpraster: um08:38
Stskeepsraster: i fully intend to - but noone picked up on LTS thread on meego-dev08:38
timeless_mbpdidn't nokia eventually get drivers for certain older things?08:39
rastertimeless_mbp: still no battery driver last i checked for n800? no? yes? am i wrong?08:39
rasteror well no open one so upgrading kernels is... problematic08:39
rasteri know wifi came out08:39
rasterthat was good08:39
Stskeepsraster: bme is accessible for distribution (userland) if asked nicely08:40
timeless_mbpyou want a way to make your n800 into a bomb?08:40
timeless_mbpi don't really think nokia needs the press from you doing that08:40
Stskeepsraster: we have 2.6.33 on n8âx008:40
Stskeepswifi was only blocker08:40
rasterStskeeps: aaah so u need to sign up an nda basically?08:40
* timeless_mbp wonders what character set Stskeeps is using08:40
ShadowJKtimeless, it's just fat fingers08:41
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ShadowJKor it looks like that08:41
Stskeepsraster: nah, nokia-binaries style eula prolly. noone asked for distribution yet08:41
Stskeepslicensing changes queue at
rastertimeless_mbp: so i'm correct. it wasnt made public. justifying it doesnt change that it is problematic for continued community support.08:42
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rasterStskeeps: hmm ok - but its still a kernel module - right?08:43
Stskeepsraster: no08:43
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crashanddieraster: if you're going to talk crap about people, try not to highlight them08:43
Stskeepswifi was only closed .ko08:43
crashanddieraster: i'm strongly opinionated, please do raise it to me, but don't go talking about me to other people08:43
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Stskeepsmorning dneary08:44
crashanddieraster: and don't quote out of context, thank you very much08:44
rastercrashanddie: ooh so you are off topic. i must ban any mention of you ever?08:44
dnearyStskeeps, Not in for long... you around later?08:44
rasterpeolpe can scroll back for that08:45
rasteryou hate pastes08:45
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rasterso i cant quote in context08:45
crashanddieraster: there's logging on this channel for a reason08:45
rasterStskeeps: hmm so there must be some kernel side battery control logic somewhere08:45
* timeless_mbp starts Mer^208:45
rastercrashanddie:  then id doesnt matter if i mention you - you can read the logs.08:46
timeless_mbpStskeeps: screen size is a bit big08:46
Stskeepsdneary: yeah, all day, anything you'd like to discuss?08:46
RST38hserial renamers08:46
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: yeah agreed08:46
Stskeepsraster: nop, all in bme08:46
dnearyStskeeps, It starts with me and ends with go08:46
crashanddieStskeeps: lol, the troll shares your first name08:47
Stskeepsdneary: fair enough - poke me before 16 polish time08:47
timeless_mbpStskeeps: are guest additions installed, or do i get to do that?08:47
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: not preinstalled08:47
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rasterStskeeps: as i said above - the arsehole calls me a troll - without understanding its meaning (and being the one to verbally abuse the community).08:48
timeless_mbphey, there's no /floppy08:48
* timeless_mbp wanted to mount /dev/cdrom /floppy08:48
rasteri'm getting the drift that this amemo community is a bit of a sesspit and it's time to leave it to fester on its own.08:48
crashanddieraster: finally, you've caught on :)08:49
Stskeepsraster: :nod:08:49
SpeedEvilWell - poking stuff with sticks doesn't help.08:49
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* RST38h yawns at raster08:49
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SpeedEvilWhatever the state of that stuff.08:49
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RST38hAh, stop ranting already. Do something useful.08:49
SpeedEvilI hope things get less poisonous when there is movement on meego.08:49
RST38h==> work08:50
timeless_mbpStskeeps: eww, /tmp isn't friendly to guest additions08:50
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil: lol08:50
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - doesn't seem likely.08:50
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Stskeepstimeless_mbp: it's fremantle in the good and bad08:51
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bobzer_it's me again08:52
timeless_mbpyeah yeah, TMPDIR is my friend08:52
bobzer_with my problem08:52
* timeless_mbp goes to find the wiki page that lists the pkg's to install08:52
bobzer_my phone doesn't want to start08:52
bobzer_when i success to turn on it load and stop08:53
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bobzer_to finally turn off and stay with a white screen where it's write nokia08:53
bobzer_and no backlight08:53
bobzer_somebody can help me ?08:54
timeless_mbpStskeeps: do i want -common instead of -generic?08:55
ShadowJK"load and stop"?08:55
ali1234bobzer_: hold the power button for 10 seconds08:56
bobzer_and ?08:56
ali1234and see what happens08:56
bobzer_strictly nothing08:56
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ali1234hmm. when did this start happening?08:57
DocScrutinizerbobzer_: yellow idicator LED?08:57
bobzer_since this morning08:57
bobzer_and yes the indicator is orange08:58
bobzer_and don't blink08:58
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: context please08:58
timeless_mbpnope, looks like i want -68608:58
DocScrutinizerso it's probably just a very drained battery, and needs several hoers to recharge08:58
timeless_mbpsudo apt-get install build-essential linux-headers-*kernel-version*-generic08:58
timeless_mbp'generic' should be '686' today08:58
Stskeepsthink it's 68608:58
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timeless_mbp686 worked08:59
timeless_mbphrm, 'shutdown -r now' doesn't work08:59
DocScrutinizerbobzer_: let it charge for some hours08:59
bobzer_the phone it's plus to my computer08:59
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: not sure which package has that one08:59
bobzer_it charge all the day08:59
DocScrutinizerbobzer_: use the wallcharger, not your computer09:00
bobzer_i don't have the wall charger with me09:00
timeless_mbpoh, shutdown exists, it just doesn't seem to be helpful09:00
* timeless_mbp tries shutdown -r +109:00
bobzer_i can do nohing without the wall charger ?09:01
DocScrutinizerhmm, so it may have additional problems with your USB host possibly shutting down on suspend09:01
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bobzer_please says me it's possible09:01
DocScrutinizerbobzer_: iz09:01
Stskeepstimeless_mbp: not sure 'reboot' is there09:01
bobzer_iz ?09:01
DocScrutinizerit should work as well09:01
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DocScrutinizeras long as you PC doesn't suspend09:02
timeless_mbpit isn't09:02
bobzer_my phone it's really strange09:02
bobzer_i just unplugged09:03
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bobzer_and now the indicator is blinking09:03
bobzer_like if it was in charge09:03
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DocScrutinizercontinuous yellow is a mere hw-indicator running from charger chip to LED09:04
DocScrutinizerit overrides whatever the system might do to the LED09:04
rasterout of here09:05
rasterso long and thanks for al the fish09:05
DocScrutinizerraster: cya09:05
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bobzer_DocScrutinizer: so why the led is blinking and the phone it's not plug ??09:06
rasterthis channel is about as appetising as a rotten sardine sandwich thanks to some particular askects of its community09:06
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* ShadowJK 'd disconnect phone, remove battery for a minute, put battery back in, connect cable, and do nothing for a few hours09:06
bobzer_and the power button do nothing09:07
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bobzer_i can't turn off09:07
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bobzer_ShadowJK: i already try this09:07
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DocScrutinizerbobzer_: bat too low, system isn't completely booted. Keep it charging until the bat has enough power to boot up09:08
Stskeepsmorning tekojo!09:08
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crashanddiebobzer_: which is what we've been telling you for the past couple of hours09:09
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bobzer_but the phone stayed plug to charge since 2pm09:09
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bobzer_what is the meaning of the indicator when the led is orange and not blinking09:10
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* timeless_mbp2 grumbles09:11
timeless_mbp2adium is not being cooperative09:11
DocScrutinizerbobzer_: [2010-03-02 08:04:31] <DocScrutinizer> continuous yellow is a mere hw-indicator running from charger chip to LED09:11
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i don't entirely agree with that statement09:12
bobzer_but normally when is charging its binking no ?09:12
DocScrutinizerbobzer_: so yellow/orange non-blinking is a quite decent indicator it's actually charging09:12
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: not?09:12
bobzer_oh something change09:13
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: as i know, all the magic happens in either nolo, init scripts (see BME event.d script) and BME09:13
bobzer_it turn off itself09:13
bobzer_rumble one time09:13
bobzer_and now it's blinking09:13
tybolltblinking means; I'm charging09:13
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: I spotted a circuit to switc red+green from charger chip09:13
bobzer_now i see the nokia logo09:13
timeless_mbp2Stskeeps: do i need some magical thing to get the modules loaded?09:14
tybolltbobzer_: does it boot up?09:14
tybolltbobzer_: otherwise you don't have enough juice in the phone to run09:14
bobzer_nothing happen when i push the putton power09:14
tybolltbobzer_: which means -> leave it to charge for about ten-fifteen minutes and then you're good to go09:14
bobzer_i hope09:15
tybolltit's been stated TIME and TIME AGAIN that the charger for N900 is a CHARGER not a PSU.09:15
bobzer_but i really don't think it's true because i already try09:15
Stskeepstimeless_mbp2: hmm, not sure, it doesn't show up in lsmod?09:15
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anotnache said hes had it on charge for hours already earlier09:15
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: V1301, v1302, v1303, N114009:15
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timeless_mbp2doesn't seem to, what would it be called?09:16
tybollttimeless_mbp2: "shirley" for sure!09:16
* timeless_mbp2 prefers sue09:16
Stskeepstimeless_mbp2: sec09:16
DocScrutinizertybollt: N1140 *is* a charger chip09:17
DocScrutinizeranotnac: aiui that was PC. And even on wallcharger N900 tends to ignore first plug-event and not notice the charger09:18
DocScrutinizeranotnac: really annoying, bites me as well sometimes09:19
* mece agrees. You often have to plug it in twice.09:19
anotnache as no wall charger i think he said too09:19
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i might be wrong of course09:19
Stskeepstimeless_mbp2: /etc/rcS-modules.conf is a newline seperated list of modules to load on startup09:19
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: I just deduce from schematics09:19
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* mece always checks that at least something is blinking after it's plugged in.09:20
Stskeepstimeless_mbp2: you make it :)09:20
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: sure the charging chip isn't handling LEDs too?09:20
timeless_mbp2what's the name of the module?09:20
Stskeepswell, i hoped you'd know :P09:20
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: It *is*, as I mentioned above09:21
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: ah, we talked past eachother then09:21
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timeless_mbp2modprobe vboxguest failed :(09:21
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ShadowJKi thoght it looked like charging chip can only make yellow09:21
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: exactly09:25
ShadowJKbut led doesnt blink when screen is on, so software can tell the charging chip to do whatever, I guess.09:25
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DocScrutinizerIt can tell the chip to stop the yellow-signal, yes seems correct09:26
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MiXu-Is it an RGB-led btw?09:26
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MiXu-Ok. I was just wondering because I've never seen it red09:27
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rasterMiXu-:  orange... :)09:28
raster(red + some green) :)09:28
DocScrutinizer+blue=white ;-)09:28
MiXu-Yeah. Well I thought there might be 3 different colored leds. blue+yellow+green.09:29
MiXu-It wouldn't have made much sense though09:29
ShadowJKmine flickers red when i remove charger09:29
rasterMiXu-:  that could be the case... :)09:29
DocScrutinizerit's 3 LEDs, just they are blue, green, and red09:29
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rasterdunno - but if ua re going to have 3 colors.. r, g and b let u make any color u like... (well most - lets not talk color specrta/ranges) :)09:30
meceit's an rgb led?!?! Awesome! Min is going to be pink tonight!09:31
mecemine even09:31
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DocScrutinizeractually mirror app should shine the ind.LED red09:31
DocScrutinizerit doesn't :-(09:31
DocScrutinizermece, wait a second09:32
bobzer_i did nothing and now it come back to a non blinking led and a the logo of nokia09:32
* mece is waiting a second.09:33
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DocScrutinizernah, to silly. I planned to post you the pattern, but actually I simply changed RGB to RB09:33
meceDocScrutinizer, aren't we talking regular rgb patterns?09:33
DocScrutinizerfor the breating light pattern in mce.init09:33
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MiXu-We definitely need an application that cycles through all kinds of colors ;)09:34
cehtehto bad that only 2 engines are available for the blinking .. i want a rainbow pattern09:34
rasteri wonder09:34
rastermaybe the led should be expoed as another x display09:34
rasteranother screen09:34
raster:0.0 and :1.009:34
raster:1.0 is 1x1 pixel09:34
rasterit makes sense tho09:34
mecewhat's an example of the pattern now then? I mean what's the format?09:35
* ShadowJK wonders if trying to start on empty battery counts towards the too-many-resets counter...09:35
rasterif you expand the idea that devices may have multiple display areas09:35
DocScrutinizercehteh: I'll come up with a rainbow pattern eventually. It holds for 30min or somesuch, when kbd slider closed09:35
cehtehmece there is a 'led-pattern-editor'09:35
rasterthey may have 2nd lcd's on the back or inside/outside09:35
rasteror even arrays of led's to display images/patterns09:35
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rastera lot of japanese phones do that09:35
cehtehDocScrutinizer: you need all 3 engines for a true rainbow pattern09:35
rasterkorean ones too09:35
DocScrutinizercehteh: I'll use all 309:35
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cehtehah yes i can do that too .. but its not valid for mce09:36
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DocScrutinizer~lart mce09:36
* infobot raises middle finger to mce09:36
cehtehthu shal not use ta 3rd engine09:36
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cehtehotherwise sure .. i can programm anything manually09:37
DocScrutinizeractually I thought about using SElinux rules to keep mce from messing with 3rd engine09:37
cehtehdoes the kernel have SElinux enabled09:37
cehtehhey nokia left already all useful things out09:38
rasterlike that09:38
rasterclocks - messages etc. on the covers09:38
DocScrutinizerit's utterly stupid to waste an engine for a simple kbd backlight switching that can be done via sw easily09:38
rasterso.. why not have the led as a pixel on a screen09:38
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rasterits a degenerate subset of all the other examples09:38
cehtehDocScrutinizer: btw you missed my yesterday morning hack:09:38
meceso.. gtkmm is built stripped down for maemo it appears. Or am I missing something?09:38
cehteh[10:41] <cehteh> sshfs -o nonempty /media/mmc1/DCIM09:39
cehteh[10:41] <cehteh> ... aussm fenster fotographier-test09:39
cehteh[10:42] <cehteh>
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mececehteh, that was impressive :)09:39
DocScrutinizercehteh: you really think I missed that?09:39
cehtehmaybe no .. at least you didnt responed i think ..09:40
DocScrutinizerno, I didn't09:40
cehtehor i was tired09:40
cehtehwell *that* is something i'll show off someone with an iphone :P09:41
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DocScrutinizeractually I wondered if I could spot the town you're living09:41
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cehtehwhen you look close you can read "Rathaus West" on the building :P09:42
cehtehand the pic might be even geotagged if wasnt down09:43
gomiamGuest02344: it's no good manner spamming IRC server addresses through queries :P09:43
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gomiamthat user is sending a message to incoming users advertising some IRC network.09:44
cehtehworth a kline .. or a kickban .. where is crashanddie when we need him? :P09:45
meceremind me again, why doesnä't n900 ship with ogg09:45
gomiammece: because it's hard to pronounce? :D09:45
cehtehmece: installable .. devel or testing or whatever09:45
mececehteh, taht was not my question. It's not something that bothers me, I'm just curious09:45
meceobviously I have no problems clicking "install ogg support".09:46
kulvemece: legal issues09:46
Shapeshiftercehteh: uhm. does that sshfs command mount the DCIM folder online in a folder you're serving via a webserver? As in, everytime you make a picture, it shows up there and if people access it they access your n900?09:46
kulvemece: will be "fixed" in the Harmattan09:46
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mecekulve, but what legal issues? I mean it's gpl afaik. How could there be legal issues?09:46
anotnaci think i read harmattan will get ogg support as a default format09:46
kulve(l)gpl doesn't mean there couldn't be patent issues09:47
cehtehShapeshifter: other way around it mounts the webserver on my n90009:47
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kulvefor mp3 you can just pay somebody to "get rid of" the patent issues, but you can't do the same with ogg/vorbis09:47
cehtehbut heh what you suggested would be possible too .. just a bit bad for performance09:47
bobzer_and now it's completely turn off09:47
bobzer_so i think it doesnt charge anymore09:48
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cehtehin theory i could setup ... tunnel that through vpn on a webserver on the device :)09:48
cehtehbut uhm .. i really dont want that09:48
anotnacbobzer do you have any other phones09:49
mecekulve, ok thanks.09:49
bobzer_i one other yes09:49
bobzer_why ?09:49
anotnacwhat kind09:49
mecewtf is up with Is it always slow?09:49
cehtehits hosted on a n900 too :)09:49
bobzer_the other phone is a htc s710 and09:49
bobzer_it's lock09:50
bobzer_i can't use my sim card inside09:50
bobzer_anotnac: what are you thinking ?09:51
anotnacif you can get some1 with a 5800 to charge your battery it will as normal after that09:51
mecegnome is hosted by the academic computer club of Umeå.09:51
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bobzer_a ok but it's not the same battery09:52
DocScrutinizerbobzer_: either it charged enough so you could start it now, or your host PC cut power to USB09:52
bobzer_i already charge with my computer09:52
DocScrutinizeryou shouldn't have to resort to alien charging. After all that's not a Neo Freerunner A509:53
bobzer_so i don't think it cut the power09:53
anotnacthey are same batteries bobzer09:53
mecebobzer_, don't you have a wall charger? the computer charging takes years.09:53
bobzer_i'm in vacation09:53
bobzer_and thought i neddn't the wall charger09:53
mecebobzer_, right. bummer09:53
bobzer_because i have my computer and the cable09:53
bobzer_and i just try to turn on09:54
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bobzer_stay press the button for more than 10sec09:54
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bobzer_and strictly nothing happens09:54
DocScrutinizerthere are usb wallchargers for 5 bucks in every second gas station09:54
mecebobzer_, there is some problems with charging from a computer and some compiuters' powersaving modes.09:54
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DocScrutinizermece: didn't I say exactly that?09:54
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bobzer_it's strange09:55
bobzer_thank's guy to try to help09:55
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meceDocScrutinizer, it's possible. I haven't been paying attention :)09:55
MiXu-If your battery is completely empty, I think that a PC will only charge at 100mA until N900 can boot.09:55
bobzer_i'am really upset and disapointed by this phone09:55
MiXu--> It'll take a long time until there's enough power to boot.09:55
VeggenWasn't there some problem with USB and generic chargers? I.e., something the charger has to conform to according to the spec, but not everyone does?09:55
DocScrutinizerMiXu-: exactly09:55
bobzer_and the worst it's i really really need09:55
MiXu-bobzer_: Just let it charge for like 15 minutes in peace09:55
DocScrutinizerwith steady yellow09:56
bobzer_MiXu-: it's what i tried all the day09:56
MiXu-The 100mA chargin is a limitation of USB standard09:56
bobzer_no right now it's like dead09:56
bobzer_led off and nothing append if i press the button09:56
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MiXu-How long have you had it plugged in without touching it?09:57
DocScrutinizerbobzer_: so remove bat, wait 1min, insert and hook up to charger again09:57
cehtehis the battery very cold?09:57
bobzer_the battery is cold yes09:58
cehtehdunno if that works with lipo .. but making it handwarm helps with other bats09:58
ali1234does n800 kernel have gadgetfs support?09:58
cehtehput it in a pocket for a few minutes09:58
bobzer_MiXu-: i let it charge maybe 3 or 4h without do anything09:58
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bobzer_and more but with trying to o some thing09:58
DocScrutinizerwith steady yellow?09:58
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MiXu-Ok. Sounds like some hardware problem then. Try what DocScrutinizer suggested.09:59
bobzer_yes i plug again a now it's yellow09:59
bobzer_but not blnking09:59
DocScrutinizerso don't touch for 1h09:59
bobzer_but i think it will begin to blink soon10:00
bobzer_and rumble and start it self10:00
bobzer_like before10:00
DocScrutinizerthat's a good sign actually10:00
bobzer_but when it start10:00
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bobzer_it stay at the nokia's logo10:00
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anotnaconce it starts blinking it means its charging and you'll get white logo with charger symbol10:01
mecespeaking of batteries, I appear to be dangerously hooked on battery coffeed10:01
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DocScrutinizerthat's a system issue then, I'd guess10:01
DocScrutinizernot realted to bat10:01
bobzer_i don't know10:01
MiXu-mece: It's awesome!10:02
mecemy friend whos macbook overdrained his battery went to a phone shop and they did an "emergency charge" on the battery. Has worked fine ever since.10:02
bobzer_i found this befoe ask you i think its the same problem :
meceMiXu-, quite. Dangerously so.10:02
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DocScrutinizerbobzer_: whatever happens, keep it charging for one hour10:03
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* mece is recompiling gtkmm for maemo, because he got tired of the missing propertiy_ variables.10:03
DocScrutinizereven better, keep charging until green light10:03
bobzer_i'm right10:03
bobzer_it just rumble and turn on10:04
bobzer_and now it's blinking10:04
bobzer_with the nokia's logo10:04
anotnacleave it now for a hour10:04
DocScrutinizerso ok, it's charging regularly I guess10:04
bobzer_yes but i know it will turn off soon10:04
DocScrutinizerin 2 hours it should be 100% charged10:04
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bobzer_yes but this thing i already do10:05
mecebobzer_, I think the problem is that it will try to turn itself on with too little battery, draining it again.10:05
DocScrutinizerif the yellow blinking stops then that's probably an issue with your PC10:05
bobzer_mece: it's possible10:05
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bobzer_DocScrutinizer: that's also possible10:05
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bobzer_but what can i do ??10:05
bobzer_except depress10:06
bobzer_i already do this10:06
mecebobzer_, well as I said, you can go to a phone shop and ask them to emergency charge the battery. (One that sells nokia phones)10:06
MiXu-DocScrutinizer: The 2 hour rule only applies to the wall charger10:06
DocScrutinizerMiXu-: yep10:06
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bobzer_mece: i'll try tomorrow if i can't fix tonight10:07
DocScrutinizeractually via USB host it's more like 3h10:07
mecebobzer_, what kind of computer are you using?10:07
MiXu-DocScrutinizer: Yes, _if_ the PC configures the USB connection right and gives full power10:07
MiXu-With 100mA (unconfigured USB) it'll take 14 hours or so.10:07
DocScrutinizerbobzer_: I suggest you unplug and replug USB right now10:07
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MiXu-Another USB port in PC might also help10:08
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bobzer_i have a laptop10:08
DocScrutinizergive it a minute to settle after unplug10:08
bobzer_and you want i unplug now ?10:08
bobzer_oh the led change10:08
anotnacis it still charging blinking10:09
slackmagicw00t! just got my n900 out of its box, charging now10:09
DocScrutinizerdo not press any button on N90010:09
bobzer_it's still orange10:09
bobzer_but not blinking10:09
DocScrutinizerbobzer_: after unplug??10:09
bobzer_i just unplug10:09
bobzer_and now10:09
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DocScrutinizerwait until it blinks, then unplug, wait for complete off, then plug again10:09
bobzer_the led is blinking10:09
bobzer_i plugged10:10
tybolltbobzer_: You are charging off of your laptop?10:10
bobzer_and the led now it's not blinking10:10
tybolltbobzer_: You are charging off of your laptop?10:10
DocScrutinizerafter replug it should charge normally (blinking) and you should be able to boot after a short while (some 30 moin at max)10:10
bobzer_my laptop it's plug on the wall yes10:10
tybolltsee that is your problem right there son10:11
bobzer_no the led it's not blinking10:11
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tybolltconnect the phone to a wall socker charger and you should be fine10:11
anotnacit will blink soon it needs more juice first10:11
DocScrutinizerbobzer_: so wait until it *is* blinking, the do the replugging, then wait another one hour10:11
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bobzer_ok i'll try10:12
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tybolltI think he is SOL unless he goes for wall socket - really10:12
DocScrutinizertybollt: we been there10:12
tybolltwe have10:12
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mece"Blinkin! What are you doing?" - "Guessing... I guess no-one's coming"10:12
bobzer_tybollt: i don't have the wallcharger10:12
tybolltSOL mate10:12
bobzer_it's not blinking anymore10:12
cehtehStskeeps: whats your battery state now? :)10:13
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anotnacbobzer is there a phone shop near you10:16
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cehteh.. isnt that nice for batt low?10:17
DocScrutinizerwtf? whatever it is, for sure 7f007f007f007f007f007f007f00 is kinda stupid10:18
cehtehits not10:18
cehtehlook closer10:18
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cehtehyou cant otherwise pause with keeping it lit at constat value10:19
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cehtehwithout the R component thats my normal 'on' pattern10:19
DocScrutinizeryou can, see my recent addition of branch command10:19
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bobzer_anotnac: no i don't have a shop close to me10:20
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anotnacbobzer you from london there must be 5800 user or shop with usb charger somewhere10:21
mecemy boss asked me to take a look at joikuboost. Have any of you tried it or perhaps developed it?10:22
DocScrutinizer[2010-03-02 08:54:24] <DocScrutinizer> there are usb wallchargers for 5 bucks in every second gas station10:22
meceDocScrutinizer, are there really? I've never seen one.10:22
DocScrutinizerso s/gas station/supermarket/10:23
bobzer_anotnac: why london ?10:23
bobzer_anotnac: i'm french and i'm in toronto10:23
mececlose :D10:23
anotnacsame queen10:23
cehtehDocScrutinizer: well, using this branch command is a bit tricky :)10:24
DocScrutinizernot really10:24
tybollthow can you have a N900 but no wall charger?10:25
cehtehi didnt read the datasheet ... at what 'address' does my program start?10:25
tybolltThe moose ate it?10:25
t-tancehteh: you have some comments about the community kernel?10:25
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cehtehah yes you read log?10:25
DocScrutinizercehteh: I'd hope at 010:25
cehtehDocScrutinizer: thats what i meant with complicated10:25
DocScrutinizercehteh: I admit I haven't checked yet10:26
cehteht-tan: btw i seen your comment on compcache too, i'd like to see that .. well in short (you dont need to read backlog)10:26
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t-tancehteh: you saw your comments while flicking through the irclog10:26
cehtehthe yesterday update bricked my device .. donno why, i repartitioned it to ext4, worked well10:26
DocScrutinizercehteh: reading the 5523.c source would tell you about absolute address in sram of the different engines, *if* it doesn't start at 010:26
bobzer_tybollt: i have the wallcharger but not with me10:27
bobzer_i'm in vacation10:27
cehtehi wanted to ask you about a) do you have any plan to recover / secondary safe boot10:27
DocScrutinizercehteh: nevertheless rst means load 0->pc so I'm quite sure it's 0 start pragma for each engine's progspace10:27
cehtehand b) how to handle new nokia firmwares which will possibly overwrite the kernel10:27
t-tancehteh: that would be the second time someone bricked his device with this kernel. bad. I need to figure out why it happens10:28
cehtehDocScrutinizer: well i think its just some experimentation .. it wont blow up when something is wrong10:28
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t-tancehteh: did you have a previous version of my kernel installed, or did you install the broken version maemo11, not maemo12?10:28
DocScrutinizerfor sure it won't10:28
cehtehi installed it a day before .. dunno what version that was10:28
mececd ..10:28
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mecedamn. sorry10:28
cehtehi just wanted to play with ext4 (which is quite faster than ext3 on the device)10:29
t-tancehteh: it is was the temporary version maemo11, bricking was guaranteed.10:29
cehtehwell, may i suggest that you release some kind of semistable version?10:30
t-tancehteh: the kernel is independent from the nokia kernel. you only need to --reinstall the package if a Nokia kernel overwrites it10:30
mecewould my N900 still work if I changed MyDocs to ext3 or 4?10:30
cehtehi dont have 2 devices one for use and one for development .. bricking it is quite some pita :P10:30
t-tancehteh: maemo11 was a stupid mistake. the other version are stable and tested on my device first10:30
cehtehmece: only with some hacks, but yes10:30
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cehteht-tan: well if i wasnt aware of the risk of a foreign kernel i would be very pissed :)10:31
t-tancehteh: the recovery instructions for bricked devices are in the first psot of the TMO thread10:31
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cehtehdidnt even read it :)10:31
cehtehdid a complete reflash and restore10:31
cehtehdont even know that such a thread exists :P10:32
DocScrutinizerno sane person would even touch tmo10:32
t-tancehteh: there you would read how to reflash only the kernel10:32
cehtehDocScrutinizer: heise forums are more worse10:32
DocScrutinizerI stoped to read those long ago :-P10:32
DocScrutinizerfor the very reason10:32
cehteht-tan: it was bricked in a way wich didnt boot anymore10:32
cehteht-tan: do you have a link to that thread?10:33
t-tancehteh: it recovers with the flasher-3.5 on your pc10:33
DocScrutinizerthought that's quite obvious10:33
cehtehwell anyways, i am no with the nokia kernel and ext310:33
cehtehmy 2 other questions are more important .. not only that i fear that it might be brick again10:34
cehtehbut when the next nokia firmware comes with a new kernel you (me) need some recovery plan .. or some hack preventing the installation of the kernel image from nokia10:35
DocScrutinizerduh, reminds me: t-tan could you also increase the kernel log buffer to a sane size so it can hold at least one fuull boot, please?10:35
mecedamn. I'm sorry. I forget that virtualbox doesn't take focus just by moving the cursor..10:35
t-tancehteh: I'll add a big fat warning to the package description10:35
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t-tanDocScrutinizer: already done (64K)10:35
DocScrutinizert-tan: cool :-D10:35
t-tancehteh: pretty much impossible and probably not a good idea10:36
cehtehwell that doesnt really solve the issue, this is not to blame you but i am trying to be brainstorming about a proper solution10:36
cehtehfor any definition of 'proper' :)10:36
t-tanthe best solution would be to integrate some of my patches and changes10:36
t-taninto the Nokia kernel10:36
cehtehwell ok i guess we need a big bat and some plane tickets for visiting finland for that10:37
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cehteht-tan: can you store your kernel aside in /home/ (/opt .. whatever)10:38
cehtehand have some rescue boot ..10:38
DocScrutinizeryou could add a repo holding a rev that overrides any next version of nokia kernel10:38
cehtehwell yes this are all bandaids arount nokias inept crap10:38
t-tancehteh: the kernel is flashed to initfs on device, which is hidden.10:39
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cehtehyes i know .. hence keep a copy of it somewhere for recovery10:39
t-tanDocScrutinizer: I deliberately renamed the kernel so that it doesnt conflict with Nokia kernel and reverting is easy10:39
cehtehand not on MyDocs or mmc1 whcih becomes inaccessible when its not FAT :P10:39
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DocScrutinizert-tan: reverting also easy by disabling the special repo10:40
cehtehi wish nokia would provide some way to boot alternative kernels offically10:40
t-tanit could keep the image in /boot and not delete it after flashing10:40
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cehtehuhm space constraints?10:40
t-tancehteh: IIRC someone tried kexec10:40
t-tanfor N8x0 but to no avail10:41
cehtehwell only works as long nokia enabled that on their kernel10:41
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DocScrutinizerreally? :-(10:41
t-tanN900 might be different. you're welcome to try :)10:41
Stskeepsmorn johnx10:41
Termana_n810cehteh - doesn't the flasher allow you to load alternative kernels? it does for the n8x010:41
cehtehkontori suggested me to talk with stephan about kernel issues .. i see him in may on lac ..10:42
DocScrutinizerI bet Stskeeps should know better10:42
cehtehso lets see beer or bat :)10:42
cehtehlinux audio conference10:42
DocScrutinizerI mustn't join that event10:43
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DocScrutinizeror something bad might happen :-P10:43
meceis there any particular reason why glib is built with --fno-exceptions ?10:44
cehtehwell he is gst developer dunno how much he is involved with the kernel team10:44
cehtehemebedded .. haha10:45
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t-tanI hope Nokia adopts my quilt patch system. it make it so much easier to selectively en/disable patches10:45
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DocScrutinizercehteh: nah, but I might run into someone responsible for PA10:46
cehtehhihi :) ...10:46
cehtehisnt that a one-man-show? :)10:47
DocScrutinizeror accidentally listen to a talk stating "*ALL* apps have to switch from ALSA to PA native now"10:47
cehtehand no there are the jack guys ...10:47
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cehtehif you search for somone cursing over PA then you will find plenty there10:47
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cehteh.o(i cant remember anyone ever saied somethnig positive about PA ...)10:48
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DocScrutinizerso I got a better idea, I'll rush in to SuSE HQ 2500m away, and give them a decent beatup10:48
johnxcehteh, the people who have PA working are busy listening to music rather than fighting about *nix audio output10:49
* tybollt puts some nails in a baseball bat and hands it to doc... there you go at them10:49
Termana_n810DocScrutinizer, sounds like a good idea either way10:49
cehtehDocScrutinizer: where do you live?10:49
mecewhen I want to build with options, is it in configure I should add the options (fex --enable-api-exceptions=no)10:49
DocScrutinizercehteh: obviously 2500m away from SuSE HQ10:50
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cehtehi dont know where they are10:50
DocScrutinizerNow Nuernberg10:51
cehtehah ok10:51
DocScrutinizerthere's been some KDE meeting a week ago, iirc10:51
DocScrutinizerwould have been an even better moment to go after them - buy one, get 2 ;-P10:52
JaffaMorning, all10:53
cehteht-tan: btw do you try to enable as much as possible in your kernels or whats the goal?10:55
cehtehnilfs2 is cool, but unsuitable for flash devices yet, it has a very high write load10:55
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cehtehah .. and your kernel (2 days ago) didnt liked stock ext4 you have to disable ^huge_files missing kernel support (which is of course ok for this device)11:01
t-tancehteh: no, I enable only stuff that makes sense. nifls2 was an experiment. will be disabled in the next version11:01
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cehtehyeah o reas through the thread seen it now11:01
t-tancehteh: thanks. I should enable huge file support (didnt check that)11:02
cehtehi like nilfs a lot .. its potentially (becoming) the most rock stable fs for linux .. but not for flash devices yet11:02
meceis there a mirror to
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cehtehjust put a note into the doc that one should add ^huge_files? .. iirc that flag is for really HUGE files11:03
zaheermcehteh, his irc nick is ensonic and he is in #gstreamer a lot11:03
cehtehwhich never happen on this device11:03
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cehtehzaheerm: yes i know he was here some days ago11:03
t-tancehteh: unless you connect to a huge RAID via USB/IP :)11:03
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cehtehdunno how much it bloats the kernel11:04
t-tanfor example, a mobile RAID (a truck)11:04
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bobzer_i have to go sleep now so i'll try out to fix my phone tomorrow11:05
t-tanit's probably more convenient than to modify the fs11:05
cehtehyeah .. makes sense for compatibility .. but you actually never need huge files accessd on the device .. and i doubt that a multiple TB file makes fun when you go over wlan :)11:05
bobzer_thank's guy for tried to help me11:05
mecebobzer_, I hope you get it fixed. bye.11:05
johnxmobile Raid?
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Corsachmhm, might not be the best time to ask, but is there some us people which could recommend a non-contract data plan for n900?11:06
cehteht-tan: is that stock ext4 or did you added some patches/fixes?11:06
t-tanjohnx: that's too small :D11:06
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johnxCorsac, the $10 t-mo plan works ok11:06
t-tancehteh: stock ext4, do you know any backports for .28?11:07
johnxwell, it works for me at least11:07
cehtehno .. i just cant remember when the 'no-journal' option became reliable11:07
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Corsacjohnx: how is it called? can I just enter into a store an pay by cash for a sim?11:08
cehtehsomeone should try to get 2.6.32 to n900-land11:08
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johnxCorsac, no idea. I started on a plan and am now month-to-month11:09
t-tanjebba already tried11:09
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cehteh.32 is LTS or?11:09
johnxthough I think you can just start with month-to-month voice and add the data plan to it via your account page on their website11:09
cehtehiirc i read about that someone of the kernel devs wants to maintain it11:09
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Corsaccehteh: yes11:09
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Corsacjohnx: and tmo has 3.5g for n900?11:10
johnxwell, where they have coverage11:11
johnxtheir coverage map is not as impressive as verizon, for example11:11
johnxbut where they have good coverage, they don't tend to drop calls (IME)11:11
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cehtehI flashed this successfully, but on reboot it appeared to load but then the screen went bad and it seemed to smell. :O I yanked the battery.11:12
t-tanAFAIK that was the stock kernel without Nokia patches. not a good idea11:13
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cehtehyeah .. i'd thought abut starting with .28 and then incrementally  rebasing that on vanilla hiving the nokia patches over11:14
cehtehthat will be some tough job .. but when we find some group of developers it may very well worth the benefit11:14
Stskeepscehteh: that is a pretty good argument for nokia to push their patches upstream11:14
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cehtehyet alone get the nokia patches factored out and in a public git would be close to priceless11:15
Stskeepsyeah that too11:15
joejoehi, i have made gstreamer plugin and i have problems with it on n900. I am using folowing pipeline, but i can see only the first frame of camera stream. Is there any common workaround for maemo gstreamer plugins which is different to desktop plugins? gst-launch-0.10 v4l2src device="/dev/video0" ! videoscale ! video/x-raw-yuv, width=160 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! video/x-raw-gray ! abr2 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! videoscale ! video/x-raw-rgb, width=11:15
joejoe640 ! ximagesink11:15
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Shapeshiftercehteh: soo, when you take a picture, the picture gets saved on the webserver directly?11:22
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cehtehShapeshifter: that was only a fun experiment11:22
Shapeshifterquite clever actually11:23
cehtehi dont plan to have that enabled11:23
Shapeshifterdoes the camera application wait until the write operation is complete or can it queue?11:23
ShapeshifterI would neither ;) But it's an interesting hack11:23
cehtehfuse/kernel caches to some extent11:23
cehtehi guess you can do a lot pics without blocking11:24
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aboyerjoejoe: you should use the v4l2camsrc element on n90011:26
aboyeralso, i think you should be using xvimagesink...11:28
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johnxhey hrw11:40
johnxwhat are you hacking on these days?11:40
hrwjohnx: bug-image-production with, RI #1162 and few other bugs java related11:41
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johnxjava...can't say I envy you (though I know it has its uses)11:42
johnxer, what's RI #1162 (google fails me)11:42
hrwjohnx: Redmine ticket in BugLabs internal tracker11:43
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johnxcool. kinda forgot about buglabs in all the meego news11:44
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johnxI guess they're about to release their next piece of hardware, huh?11:44
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trupheenixhi i want to know how i can download maps into Ovi Maps for use to reduce 3g costs?11:49
trupheenixalso i want to know how i can update ovi maps11:49
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johnx1) use wifi 2) you can't. sorry11:50
mecetrupheenix, well it's not that bad. here:
johnxthere's also a flashable emmc image that has map data in it already I believe (or am I confused?)11:51
trupheenixmece,  i don't have windows11:51
trupheenixmece, neither do i have a mac11:51
johnxyou're comfortable on the command line, yes?11:52
trupheenixjohnx very comfortable11:52
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johnxif I recall (pretty fuzzy on this) one of the flashable emmc images on includes country specific maps11:53
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johnxcould someone confirm that I'm remembering right?11:53
dnearyStskeeps, Ping?11:54
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mecei have no idea. I just saw that thread. I haven't bothered trying to download any maps.11:54
johnxnevermind. this looks a bit easier:
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meceah yes. was looking for that one.11:55
johnxseems that some people are having success with it at least, though I haven't tried it11:55
meceI did something like that on some other phone..11:55
johnxgotta admit that I just switched to using the google maps mobile website ...11:55
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fralsthats what i used, worked fine11:55
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mecefrals, what's the word on fMMS these days. I've been downloading updates but haven't really tested anything lately.12:04
fralsits pretty and it works (mostly)... i think?12:04
mecedoes it automagically connect these days?12:06
mecedoes this ring a bell: "Aah.. the expectation of a coming battle"12:08
fralsby setting a gconfkey you can make it try that, but its experimental :p12:09
mecefrals, ok, I'll pass for now.12:10
hrwI fetched maps with nokia map loader. but I have winxp on other machine12:10
hrwjohnx: yes, bug 2.0 will be omap3 based12:11
povbotBug Static linking under SDK-PC does not work12:11
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johnxhrw, yeah, it looks really neat for some rapid prototyping projects. I'll definitely check back when they have the OMAP3 version out12:12
MiXu-About deb package version naming conventions: Let's say I have an application xyz, version 0.1 I would name the package xyz_0.1-1_armel.deb Then I realize I did something wrong and fix it -> The new package becomes xyz_0.1-2_armel.deb - Is this correct?12:13
MiXu-Or should there be "maemo" also in the package name?12:13
olyhi, i have create a widget for my n900 that displays images from xkcd the only problem is the size of some of the image is there a way to stop the desktop scrolling when inside the widgets area ?12:14
lindi-MiXu-: binary package would be just "xyz", you are confusing with filename now?12:14
MiXu-Possibly yes :)12:15
MiXu-But what I'm after is how the filename should be formed12:15
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lindi-MiXu-: binary-package-name_versionnumber_architecture.deb12:16
lindi-MiXu-: so your problem is really what kind of version numbering scheme your are going to use12:16
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MiXu-Oh, ok so there isn't a specific unified scheme in Maemo?12:17
lindi-MiXu-: i don't know12:17
MiXu-Alright. I think that's all I need to know :)12:17
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lindi-MiXu-: but version numbers should be in increasing order12:18
lindi-MiXu-: just keep that in mind12:18
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MiXu-Of course :D12:18
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lindi-MiXu-: it's not so easy. some people use for example "svn1232" as a version number to mean that it is svn revision 1232. just think what happens when they want to release a "1.0" version without specifying svn anywhere12:20
lindi-MiXu-: or what happens when the upstream switches to git :)12:20
Corsacone can use ~ in version numbers12:21
MiXu-lindi-: Yeah, I'm planning on using 0.1, 0.1.1, 0.2, etc.12:21
Corsacthough I'm not sure dpkg in maemo supports it :/12:21
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lindi-MiXu-: that's pretty clear yes. the most obscure version number i have seen is this 1:8.11+urwcyr1.0.7~pre44-412:23
Shapeshifter Here's a simple script I wrote that resets the gprs data counter. It _should_ set the "last reset date" but for some reason it shows up as "Never" in the settings, if I use this script. Any clues why? If I compare 'gconftool-2 -R /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/GPRS' before and after using my script or the "reset" button in the settings, I don't see any difference. The gprs_reset_time I ...12:24
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Shapeshifter... set is valid12:24
MiXu-lindi-: Haha :D12:24
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trupheenixhow do i fix the memory? right now it's read only12:32
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johnxtrupheenix, N900 or N8x0?12:32
trupheenixjohnx N90012:32
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johnxinteresting. actually I don't know how to have it run a "repair" (or in unix terminology "fsck") from inside the GUI12:34
cehtehwhat filesystem is reaonly  the MyDocs ?12:34
trupheenixcehteh hmmm12:35
trupheenixcehteh, i downloaded the maps12:35
trupheenixnow i want to write them onto the Cities/diskcache directory12:35
cehtehyou have usb connected?12:36
trupheenixcehteh, usb connected and i chose mass storage mode12:36
cehtehfrom a windows pc?12:36
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trupheenixcehteh, no. debian lenny12:39
trupheenixcehteh, no windows12:39
trupheenixcehteh, i don't own a copy of windows12:39
cehtehheh ok the better12:39
cehtehif windows i would be clueless too :P12:39
Shapeshiftermhh does someone know a very quick guide for packaging a small python app? It's not really a module (well in python I guess they're all called modules) but it can't be really reused for anything. It's standalone. It's just two files, and I want to make a package. I made a package for a gtk/C app before which I found a nice howto for in the wiki but for python I'm a bit clueless12:39
cehtehwell you can unmount it on the host computer and run fsck over the usb interface12:40
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cehtehfsck /dev/sdb1 (or whatever it is .. maybe you need some extra option, see man fsck.msdos)12:41
trupheenixcehteh, ok12:41
trupheenixcehteh,  after i run fsck what happens?12:42
cehtehif you have important data on it i suggest a backup12:42
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cehtehdepends .. on options, moon phase and whatever .. usually it reports if the filesystem is ok and with the proper option it may correct the filesystem when it was damaged12:43
cehtehafter that you should be able to mount it readwrite12:43
trupheenixcehteh, ok12:43
cehtehdisclaimer: i recommend a backup, or at least dont blame me when you loose all your data ;P12:44
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trupheenixcehteh, there is no data on that volume anyway :)12:44
johnxcrashanddie, fscking a filesystem can cause data that is tenuously attached to fall off12:44
trupheenixcehteh, i just got it and wasn't able to use it since i got it12:45
crashanddiejohnx: i see12:45
cehtehtrupheenix: new device?12:45
cehtehsounds fishy when the filesystem is damaged then ...12:45
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trupheenixcehteh, well ! it's from Nokia. they gave it to me. so i think they might have checked it and given it to me?12:47
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cehtehheh dunno12:47
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cehtehwoot .. fake12:51
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trupheenixcehteh, hmmm ok i put a pastebin of my fsck out put12:53
hrwcehteh: nice fake12:54
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trupheenixcehteh, i ran fsck and asked it to correct12:54
trupheenixcehteh, but i still get same error12:54
cehtehsdb1 !12:54
cehtehor .. lemme check how the device is exported12:55
trupheenixi did fdisk -l12:55
trupheenixand it listed the N900 as sdb12:55
trupheenixand my sd card as sdc12:55
cehteheh no better not .. i reformated to ext3 .. might not like usb storage mode12:55
cehtehno sdb1 partition?12:56
cehtehwell maybe ok .. i dont know12:56
cehtehwell if it is a new phone you can flash the emmc image and it should be virgin after that12:57
nid0tbh the funniest part of that ebay fake isnt that it's fake, its that theyve actually taken pictures of it with that ludicrously poorly applied screen protector12:58
cehteh   follow the flashing eMMC instructions12:58
cehtehbut well that erases any customization12:59
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trupheenixcehteh, basically i get this read only memory thing and it says i need to back up the memory12:59
cehtehnid0: maybe thats a protection foil from packaging12:59
trupheenixnid0, i agree. the N900 screen protector was of a much better material13:00
cehtehtrupheenix: well i dont really know what happend and how it became readonly13:00
trupheenixcehteh :)13:00
nid0its more the way there are bubbles *all over* the screen under it13:00
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trupheenixcehteh, funny i stopped getting that error now. looks like fsck worked. :)13:01
trupheenixcehteh,  but i am still unable to write :(13:01
cehtehhow do you mount it?13:02
cehtehand what does dmesg    and  mount say?13:02
trupheenixcehteh, i just connect the usb cable. choose mass storage mode and then i mount it from nautilius.13:03
cehtehyes become root and type dmesg13:03
trupheenixcehteh, basically now i'm getting permissions errors!13:03
cehtehhuh .. fat has no permissions :P13:04
trupheenixcehteh FAT: Filesystem panic (dev sdb)13:04
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cehtehyou unmounted before you ran fsck?13:04
trupheenixcehteh fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain (i_pos 0)13:04
trupheenixcehteh yea i did unmount13:04
cehtehif its a new device i would just flash the emmc13:05
trupheenixcehteh, ok13:05
cehtehbut you may try fsck -a also ..13:05
Veggenfikse problemet i A-test før jeg fikser bug, eller fikse scriptet først?13:05
cehtehbut that may leave some things missing in case the filesystem was corrupted13:05
VeggenHmmf. Fikse problemet i a-test fordrer egentlig et script, ikke faen om jeg gjør det der manuelt.13:05
cehtehVeggen: now in chinese please :)13:06
Veggendet er satt properties ca. 300 steder, som hver krever en del museklikke for å endre manuelt....13:06
Veggenegentlig skulle det vært straffarbeid for han som laget bugen ;P (men han er på vinterferie, og så lenge kan vi ikke vente)13:07
trupheenixcehteh ok13:07
trupheenixcehteh, lets try fsck -a13:07
Veggeneek! wrong channel :)13:07
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VeggenSorry :) Just frustrating over a bug in a script, that has set a property on around 300 WebSphere application server instances automatically ;P13:08
cehtehtrupheenix: the problem is that after a fsck -a you might not know what gets lost, the geniue emmc doesnt contain much, but still :)13:08
trupheenixcehteh actually before nokia gave the phone to me they did reload the firmware. so i guess that's where some slip up happened.13:09
trupheenixcehteh, anyways i'll fix it can't be a real problem13:09
trupheenixcehteh, it's VFAT13:09
trupheenixcehteh, can i make it ext3/2? i hate vfat13:09
cehtehi made mine ext313:09
cehtehbut its not as easy .. you have fo fix certain bits13:10
trupheenixcehteh, ok i have experience loading oses onto sd cards. i don't know how one could do it on N900.13:10
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cehtehthe bootup expects fat filesystems13:10
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cehtehthere are different instrcutions about reformatting  .. i did my own way :P13:11
trupheenixcehteh, ok13:11
abRST38h, will you attend the FRUCT conf?13:11
trupheenixcehteh, any benefit in using ext3?13:11
cehtehsymlinks .. stability.. support for sparse files13:11
cehtehi tried ext4 too .. wich is much faster but that requires a custom kernel13:12
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trupheenixcehteh, ok13:12
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: still no news from the seller :(13:14
trupheenixcehteh,  i would like to convert it to ext3. FAT is outdated.13:14
trupheenixcehteh,  does the N900 use a hard disk inside or is it flash based storage?13:14
gouverneurhoi cehteh13:14
rzrtrupheenix: it use tapes13:15
trupheenixrzr, funny very funny :P i used to have a tape based computer when  was a kid.13:16
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rzri did to13:16
cehtehhi gouverneur13:17
cehtehtrupheenix: flash13:17
trupheenixcehteh, hmmm so ext3 isn't exactly good for flash. it reduces the lifetime of it.13:18
gouverneurtrupheenix: the flash got its own business running regarding its usage13:18
trupheenixgouverneur, hmmm own business?13:19
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nid0by the time you can realistically "reduce the lifetime" of a modern flash chip to 0 it and the n900 will long-since have belonged in a museum, tbh13:19
gouverneurtrupheenix: read somewhere that we have a quiet good write intelligence with the mmc controlers13:20
cehtehtrupheenix: should make no problems13:20
cehtehjust to be sure i tweaked some parameters13:20
trupheenixcehteh, ah... :) smart. i do the same when use SD cards with ext3.13:20
gouverneurnid0: well with a bug you could kill some of it but I think user will interact before 27GB are written 1E10 times13:21
cehtehbut considering how slow the flash is, it would prolly take years of contingous writes to wear it out :P13:21
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trupheenixcehteh, ok13:21
cehtehlaptop_mode = 600  and filesystem commit interval 600 too here13:21
cehtehgouverneur: wall dont overestimate mmc/sd controlers .. advanced ssds are quite good13:22
lovelyboyanyone get idea how to use opencv in scratchbox? :)13:22
cehtehbut the emmc already degrades in speed very much after quite basic usage13:22
trupheenixcehteh, ok.13:22
nid0in other words its a controller without trim support13:22
nid0not terribly suprising13:22
trupheenixcehteh, that's bad considering its so expensive13:22
gouverneurcehteh: recognized it... I'm down to 3MB/s13:23
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cehtehnid0: trim is way overrated13:25
cehtehand only the most expensive and modern controlers support it anyways13:26
cehtehyou'll never find it in sd and its not really necessary13:26
nid0trim works much better than a lot of people give it credit for13:26
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nid0considering most people using a device like an n900 will typically just load it up with media then never carry out any big delete/overwrites though I can fully understand nokia not using a trim-capable controller13:27
redI can't13:27
redThey can't just leave something like that out cause only 10% of people would find it useful.13:28
nid0of course they can, if there doesnt happen to be a suitable ssd at the right price and size that actually has trim support, (and id imagine there arent many) then it's tough either way13:28
nid0and by your logic the phone should do literally everything, and end up costing a billion pounds, because *someone* would find some expensive new feature useful13:29
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nid0i'm rather disappointed mine doesnt have a coffee machine built in, clearly it should have one, even if only 10% of people would use it?13:29
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redEh eh, aren't you being a smartass now? I'm just saying since they gave us a lot of space on the device, meaning it's a good device to have podcasts and stuff downloaded to, there will be alot of writing, deleting and overwriting happening, and they overlooked that totally.13:31
redBut sure, for retards buying the phone to be hip and never installing anything there it's good that it costs 50 bucks less.13:31
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trupheenixcehteh, what am i looking to download? vanilla emmc content or the os images?13:32
redJust met a guy on the weekend with N900 and asked if I could have a look, he didn't have _1_ app installed from anywhere and he said that he doesn't need those. I was left wondering why he even bought it, guessing to show off :p13:33
redTerribad device to use as a phone / sms device only.13:33
nid0well, for the vast majority of usage cases, which is what nokia have to aim the cost point at, the mmc will get written to in sizeable quanity once or twice ever, most likely. besides, this is a device for which the hardware was decided a good year ago if not longer, you could count the number of controllers with trim support back then on a leper's left hand13:33
hrwred: phone/sms/email/web/im you mean rather13:33
cehtehtrupheenix: emmc13:33
hrwred: n900 with extra apps is still usable device13:33
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redhrw: he had default desktops etc, it looked like it haven't gotten customized at all13:34
cehtehred: its a working phone and a camera13:34
hrwred: and?13:34
nid0it's a damned expensive one if thats all you want to use it for though13:34
redguy could buy a cheaper phone to do exactly the same things shitloads faster minus the camera :)13:35
hrwred: I knew few really good hackers with symbian phones which still have default wallpaper13:35
nid0my mum's £60 samsung piece of crap has a working phone and camera too, and the camera aint far short of the one in my n900 in terms of quality13:35
hrwred: did you told it him?13:35
redno, not my way of behaving :P13:35
trupheenixcehteh, what are the country specific os images for?13:35
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hrw50€ phones have better front cameras then n90013:35
nid0trupheenix, shafting people in the uk13:35
redI did ask why thought, but he didn't have any cohesive answer13:35
hrwred: so do not complain so much about it here ;D13:35
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redthe only place i can! :D13:36
redit's hard to explain the guy, you needed to have seen him13:36
trupheenixnid0, huh?13:36
redbut it made me wonder how many others like him there might be13:36
nid0I think it goes a lot the other way as well though13:36
redyou know, the corporate type who has no clue what their device is cabable of (and not knowhing how to use it)13:36
cehtehtrupheenix: the device as different memory sections13:37
trupheenixcehteh, ok13:37
trupheenixcehteh,  so i don't need to reload the os. just the emmc13:37
nid0mate of mine's had an iphone then an iphone 3gs for the past several years, picked himself up an n900 in november and the first thing he did was reflash it to global, add in testing and devel, and start having fun trying out all the devel apps for it13:37
cehtehemmc is the 32GB user memory (and some other stuff) and then it has 256MB system NAND flash13:37
cehtehthat are the other images for13:37
rednid0: the specs were decided a long time ago yeah, and i hope it's the reason for the thing we talked about aswell. hoping later devices will have it :)13:37
cehtehif you bricked the device you flash those13:37
trupheenixcehteh ok13:38
cehtehyou could flash the approbiate os image to to get a virgin device .. but likely no need13:38
nid0hell, the n900's kernel might not even support trim anyway even if the controller did, any clue what kernel version's actually in use?13:38
trupheenixcehteh, i bricked lot of openmoko phones and managed to revive them.13:38
nid0my phone's behind me, cba turning round13:38
redno idea13:38
redmine is in my suit pocket waiting to be shown off at a bar ;)13:38
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trupheenixcehteh i think i will load the latest global one13:39
nid0ah, 2.6.2813:40
nid0so no trim support in the os anyway13:40
cehtehshow me a SD card which supports trim ...13:40
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trupheenixcehteh, why do they want me to have a fully charged battery for flashing emmc? :(13:44
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pablo2 ?13:46
tybolltwhen is PR1.2 due again?13:46
MiXu-I don't think there's a date13:46
Stskeepsnext time britney spears is on tour and it's a lunar eclipse13:46
MiXu-_at the same time_13:46
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zaheermif you listen to the crap threads, it's when ovi maps with navigation is ready, skype video calling is ready, flash 10.1 for maemo is ready....13:50
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zaheermoh and not to forget full portrait mode13:51
fabinader_Hi, I'm testing my application which interacts with Maemo components via somne specific D-Bus interfaces, and in order to debug it within Scratchbox I would need to emulate some of these Maemo component's D-Bus interfaces, i.e. having "fake" implementations of these just for the purpose of allowing me to test my application... Does anybody knows if there is already some application that can create "fake", static D-Bus method imp13:51
Myrttiyou got cut off13:52
Myrttimethod imp13:52
AntiXpucTis there any Pidgin users?13:52
trupheenixcehteh, is it advisable to try out the PR versions of the OS? or should i just stick with the second release?13:53
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tybolltsome TMO-thread _do_ have a nice point however...13:53
tybolltas soon as geteth I my 1.2 I will come crying for 1.3... :-)13:53
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cehtehtrupheenix: PR1.1.1 is the actual and the one you should use13:54
SpeedEvilAntiXpucT: I tried pidgin beirfly on device. I found xchat worked better for me.13:54
trupheenixcehteh ok13:54
cehteheither the one for your region or the global one13:54
trupheenixcehteh will get that also. i think they tried updating my device but left it halfway :)13:55
AntiXpucTSpeedEvil, unfortunately, xchat don't working with jabber ;(13:55
AntiXpucTand i've question about jabber support in pidgin ;)13:56
mecehow does one destroy a gtk::pixmap?13:57
arachnistby remove gtk altogether13:57
* arachnist runs ;)13:57
mecearachnist, lol. I've had similar answers to all my questions regarding gtk so far :P13:58
arachnistmece: well, many people consider gtk as the inferior toolkit13:59
mecewell I didn't write this, so I'm stuck.13:59
zaheermmece, unref it14:02
zaheermmece, what language you using?14:02
CorsacJaffa: hmhm, about the ovi maps static downloads, do you know if the files are up to dates?14:02
Corsac(they are timestamped apr 2009)14:02
zaheermif c: gtk_object_unref (pixmap);14:02
meceright, thanks14:03
zaheermmece, are you usng gtkmm?14:03
mecezaheerm, yes.. unfortunately14:03
zaheermmece, ok hold a sec14:03
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mecezaheerm, and, is down, which doesn't help.14:04
zaheermyes i know14:05
zaheermi told them in #gnome-hackers that it is down14:05
mecezaheerm, anyway there's a pixmap.clear() that doesn't work in the maemo build, so I'm trying to work around that.14:06
JaffaCorsac: i.e. as up-to-date as if Ovi downloaded them or as up-to-date as reality?14:06
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CorsacJaffa: the first14:06
CorsacJaffa: that is, are they the most recent available from nokia :)14:06
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ptlquick question, how do I set the phone application to auto-change orientation? It is not changing when I turn it.14:12
ptl(of the N900)14:12
tybolltptl: the top bar that says "Phone"14:13
tybollttap it14:13
tybolltthen tap "turning control"14:13
crashanddiedjeezus I hate it when ebayers don't say if they've sent the item or not14:13
tybolltI skip ebay - fair and simple14:14
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hrw - anyone?14:15
JaffaCorsac: No idea, I'm afraid14:15
gouverneurtrupheenix: it is adviseable to havve a full battery because powermanagement wont work while flashing and you wont get any charge from usb, or you will drain it faster as it is charging...14:16
trupheenixgouverneur, oh this happened to me once two days back. i thought i killed the phone.14:18
trupheenixcehteh, how to make the emmc to ext3?14:18
gouverneurtrupheenix: it wont charge the batt after you killed it while flashing, if flashing wasnt finished just before it died14:18
tybolltI'd say... if you don't know how to make your emmc EXT3, you probably want to stay away from it :)14:18
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gouverneurtrupheenix: u need to get another phone or external charger14:19
gouverneurto recharge the batt and start again14:19
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trupheenixgouverneur, i face the same problem with OpenMoko :) so i used Nokia batteries14:20
gouverneurtybollt: true14:20
trupheenixgouverneur, but in this case i don't have a spare battery :D14:20
trupheenixgouverneur, ah i do have a spare Xpress Music 5800 phone. could use that14:20
ptltybollt: thanks, that was it, I was lookign at system setting14:20
ptl*system settings14:20
cehtehtrupheenix: i bbl14:21
gouverneurtrupheenix: what is 'your' benefit from ext3? as you are not able to do it without guidance I expect that you dont need it14:21
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trupheenixgouverneur, hmmmm.... i'll figure it out anyway....14:22
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KhertanHello everyone !14:22
tybolltHello Dr Nick!14:22
tybollt(granted, Dr Nick says "everybody")14:23
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Khertanhéhé :)14:23
* SpeedEvil sighs, and wishes scales diddn't lie.14:23
Khertanit s change ... depends of mood :)14:23
trupheenix6 minutes before i flash my N90014:24
trupheenixi have one more q14:24
madduckwhat's up with nokia claiming on page 14 of the n900 manual that username and password may be sent to nokia during email setup?14:24
KhertanPR1.2 available?14:24
trupheenixmy call register call times don't match with the system time. has anyone faced this?14:24
trupheenixit's like the calls i made took place in a different time zone than my system time zone.14:25
X-Fademadduck: Probably if you use some kind of push email through nokia?14:25
N900eviltrupheenix, how not? Integer hours off?14:25
CorsacJaffa: ok, thanks :)14:25
KhertanDoes there is a way to understand on device why an icon for an apps isn't show on the launcher ... ? (no trace of logs in /var/log/)14:25
trupheenixN900evil, hmmm no it's few time zones behind. i'm GMT +5:30 and the call register shows me call time as UTC.14:25
KhertanNo more "more" application menu in PR1.214:26
madduckX-Fade: i wasn't aware nokia offered that or that the email client supports that14:26
gouverneurKhertan: is 1.2 out?14:26
Khertangouverneur: nope ...14:27
nid0madduck its probably more related to nokia messaging14:28
Khertan <- look the last comment14:28
povbotBug 5343: "More..." applications launcher does't allow scrolling14:28
madducknid0: it's *scary*14:28
nid0as that requires your external email accounts' usernames and passwords be provided to nokia14:28
madduckalso, because there seems to be no detailed info about it14:28
nid0well, whole point of nokia messaging is you give them your user/password and their system fetches the mail for you from your various different accts14:28
nid0and displays it to you through your single nokia messaging acct14:29
madducknid0: then it should say all that instead of "may give out your credentials"14:29
Stskeepsand does push email, i think14:29
nid0"give out your credentials"?14:29
madduckpush email is nothing other than IMAP, potentially combined with some SMS triggering.14:29
gouverneurmadduck: SMS triggering?14:30
SpeedEvilSMS triggering may be expensive in some countries14:30
madduckgouverneur: blackberry does that afaict, it triggers the IMAP client with a SMS14:31
madducknid0: see page 14. it doesn't tell me that my credentials won't be transmitted if I just set up normal IMAP14:31
SpeedEvilSubmit a big14:31
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SpeedEvilthat is a very valid concern IMO14:31
nid0no, rather than providing info on the hundreds of different types of network-assisted accounts, it just says the details may be sent14:32
KhertanDoes there is a way to understand on device why an icon for an apps isn't show on the launcher ... ? (no trace of logs in /var/log/)14:32
SpeedEvilAnd that is a bug.14:32
nid0basically, you add an email account to nokia messaging via your phone, your account's login details are sent to nokia.14:32
mecezaheerm, ok I'm not trying to destroy it, but to remove everything from it..14:32
SpeedEvilKhertan: have you rebooted?14:32
nid0I dont see the complication, nokia messaging cant work any other way14:32
KhertanSpeedEvil: yes of course :)14:32
SpeedEvilnid0: it doesn't specify only nokia messaging14:32
KhertanSpeedEvil: but as it s the same type of icon than pygtkeditor ... i don't understand why it didn't work for vectormine14:33
SpeedEvilKhertan: same size?14:33
Khertanthe .desktop seems ok too14:33
zaheermmece, i don't think you can do that14:33
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KhertanSpeedEvil: i ve try with different size14:33
nid0well to me, network-assisted mail setup = nokia messaging14:33
KhertanSpeedEvil: but i ll recheck14:33
nid0simply adding an imap account isnt a network-assisted setup14:33
zaheermmece, why justremove data from it?14:34
mecezaheerm, hmm.. perhaps create a new empty one to replace the old one?14:34
nid0its just manually adding the account14:34
mecezaheerm, I guess to hide it or something.14:34
mecezaheerm, to be able to draw new stuff to it later14:34
CorsacJaffa: I guess someone with a windows or mac stuff should be able to trace urls :)14:34
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KhertanSpeedEvil: pygtkeditor's icon is 128x132 ... while vectormine is 128x12814:35
Stskeepsdanish media article about "Windows Mobile phones will not be upgradable to Windows Mobile 7"14:35
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SpeedEvildanish media article. King still sitting in sea.14:35
tybolltSpeedy: Sorry mate, it's Direct Memory Access ;)14:36
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* tybollt is making no sense at all today14:37
zaheermmece, delete pixmap; pixmap = new Gtk::Pixmap();14:38
gouverneurmadduck: thats blackberry...14:38
mecezaheerm, yeah, that's exactly what I'm working on.14:38
tybolltStskeeps: can you link that article please14:38
zaheermmece, and then set the new pixmap14:38
mecelet's see if it helps.14:38
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zaheermmece, is up again btw14:39
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mecezaheerm, finally. It's been down since last night14:45
KhertanThe QT migration problem on PR1.2 make me think that gtk is far better .... maybe someone can explain me in few word why it s necessary to break ABI here ?14:45
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mecezaheerm, I added the magic of // to the code to solve the problem. I'll attack the problem if I ever get this thing running14:46
X-FadeKhertan: To be compatible with Harmattan ;)14:46
zaheermbecause they introduced some crap in the maemo qt 4.5 port which they didn't want in qt 4.6 maybe14:46
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X-FadeKhertan: So there is a smooth upgrade path for developers to go from Fremantle to Harmattan.14:46
StskeepsKhertan: community extensions that qt decided to scrap totally in 4.614:46
Khertanhum ....14:47
Khertanso some things was removed ?14:47
zaheermwhy it wasn't just deprecated, i don't know14:47
Khertanyep ... i found that strange ...14:47
Khertanbut as i didn't know how qt works (or should be used) ... i didn't have a great14:48
Khertan view on "why this is necessary"14:48
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meceWOOHOO! it's Glib::RefPtr that has (had) the clear function. it's deprecated, and one should use reset().14:51
Khertanhum ... too many depandencies on gnome to port without too much modification the ubuntuone client14:52
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meceKhertan, what kind?14:53
meceKhertan, or are we talking about libraries missing?14:53
zaheermKhertan, you should talk with thomasvs who ported couchdb to maemo 514:53
mecewe have couchdb?14:53
Khertanmece: yep14:53
zaheermmece, yep but not in extras14:53
zaheermmece, erlang compiler hangs building it in the qemu on the autobuilder14:54
Khertanzaheerm: it s just a small try to run ubuntuone client14:54
mecenice. Not that I'm using it right now, but I've been meaning to do try some stuff with it.14:54
Khertanabout couchdb ... i 'm not sure what was the main purpose14:54
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zaheermKhertan, it will keep all its data in sync with the couchdb setup in ubuntu one14:55
zaheermcouchdb has built in master-master replication14:55
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X-FadeIt does need a serious diet though.14:57
Khertanzaheerm: i'm currently reading the website14:57
Khertanthis look like an oversized things14:57
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corecodeubuntu one doesn't work for me14:58
corecodein any dimension14:58
Khertanworks for file sync14:58
Khertanfor me ...14:59
corecodenot even that :/14:59
Khertanbut i didn't use notes sync as i ve my own client / server / webnotes14:59
corecodebookmarks are a fail14:59
corecodetomboy notes as well14:59
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Khertan(which isn't ready for end user yet ...14:59
Khertani use mnotes :)14:59
corecodeoh sad14:59
Khertanavailable in extras-devel14:59
Khertanbut sync can be dangerous sometimes14:59
Khertanif you don't know what you do15:00
Khertanspecially when sync more than 2 device15:00
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Khertani ve made some errors in the code that i should fix15:00
corecodei'm searching for a usable GTD app15:01
Khertangood luck15:01
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SpeedEvilcorecode: uninstall angrybirds15:01
Khertanapt-get remove vectormine15:01
corecodewhat is angrybirds?15:01
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SpeedEvilcorecode: It is a very silly game.15:02
corecodei don't play games15:03
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Khertanno no ... silly15:03
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corecodeanybody have an idea how to integrate group chat with conversations?15:07
corecodei'd like to be able to MUC15:07
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cehteheh ok15:08
arachnistmulti-user chat15:08
cehtehirc? :)15:08
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cehtehwhy not?15:08
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cehtehwell dunno15:08
corecodeif you have irc integration in conversations, even better15:08
wazd_e63Lo fellas15:09
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cehtehthe irc plugin there is close to useless15:09
corecodeoh also i wanted to hack modest to put sent mails on the imap server15:09
cehtehi use xchat15:09
cehtehit doesnt do that?15:09
corecodehowever, i thought about maybe doing that on the smptd side15:09
corecodepathetic, right?15:09
cehtehmodest :)15:09
nid0cehteh no, modest basically sucks in terms of imap, pop3, and generally anything to do with email15:09
cehtehwhen you are at it please fix:15:10
cehteh1) imap subscriptions15:10
corecodebut i'm not yet far in setting up a build/test environment15:10
cehteh2) imap idle15:10
nid0dear god yes please give local imap subscriptions15:10
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cehteh3) notifications only on selected folders15:10
corecodewhat's local imap subscriptions?15:10
cehteh4) threading15:10
nid0ability to unsubscribe to certain folders locally on the device so that it doesnt poll it15:10
corecodeokay, you do the UI, I do the code15:10
cehtehmhm .. prolly more but that are the most urgend things :P15:11
cehtehnah opposite15:11
nid0at the moment modest will only take the server side subscription list and poll every folder15:11
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corecodeit doesn't seem to do here15:11
cehtehit doesnt even get that right15:11
corecodei only see inbox15:11
corecodewhich is okay for me15:11
nid0you're probably only subscribed to the inbox serverside then15:11
cehtehah i see *all* my folders even the unsubscribed ones which have a dot in front15:12
nid0and other clients you have accessing other folders are using local subscriptions15:12
cehtehand there is no ui to subscribe/unsubscribe ... neihter server nor client side15:12
nid0but like cehteh I see all my folders, which is pissing annoying as one of the folders gets upward of 5,000 messages a day that I really have no need to see on my device15:12
corecodei have all folders subscribed15:13
cehtehand it polls (ok i disabled it) once every half hour and then notifies only about one mail .. which ususally happens to be in the junk folder15:13
corecodemy junk mails are set to read automatically :D15:13
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cehtehso i miss any important mail and get notification about junk ...15:13
cehtehmaybe i should do that too .. but then it would alert on boring mailinglist15:14
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corecodewell, weird15:14
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corecodeit only alerts inbox here15:14
cehtehi want configure it on which folder it should alert and then it should alert on every mail15:14
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cehtehand of course imap-idle support to that it alerts when a mail arrives .. one 50 mails every hour at once15:15
nid0basically, just write a whole new imap client that's actually not shit, plx15:15
* bilboed-pi wants to be able to disable tracker :(15:15
corecodewell have fun with the mail client15:15
cehtehnid0: well i disabled polling and look aktively for mail with modest when i feel for it (once every 2 weeks)15:15
cehtehotherwise i use claws on the device15:16
corecodethe imap part is not hard15:16
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cehtehi wonder if some things will be fixed in PR1.215:17
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cehtehsome userland software (maybe including modest) will possibly survive the switch to meego15:17
cehtehso it makes sense when they fix it15:17
X-Fadecehteh: Don't wonder, just look at the code. ;)15:17
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cehtehX-Fade: i dont .. its not that important for me, and way to much broken to considering to fix it15:18
X-Fadecehteh: The shortlog should answer it for you:;a=shortlog ;)15:19
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tybolltyes yawn15:21
cehtehX-Fade: is that the repository where the nokia guys commit too?15:21
X-Fadecehteh: yes15:21
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Arif_has Maemo 5 disappeared yet?15:23
nid0whats maemo 5?15:23
SpeedEvilMaemo 5 was uninstalled from all devices yesterday through an over-the-air update.15:23
SpeedEvilAnd replaces by windows 3.11wg15:24
pupnikthat explains everything15:24
Arif_now I can play Jazz Jackrabbit 2!15:24
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wazd_e63Pupnik: how's the hangover? :D15:39
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* tybollt is modest15:40
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corecodedoes anybody have a solution for incoming sip calls from POTS?15:42
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corecodehere they appear as sip:012345678@sipgate.de15:42
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corecodeand they are not connected to the address book entry of 01234567815:42
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corecodeno, direct sip15:43
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wazd_e63Cehteh: oh no, not again :)15:43
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w00tso, who's got a UK mobile provider they want to brag about15:56
w00thave horrible coverage in hull, otherwise they'd be an option15:58
* w00t ponders O215:59
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* Arif_ is on the only Dutch provider that offers unlimited internet15:59
w00tN900evil: why are they good?16:00
N900evilw00t, payg - 20 quid for 6mo interocitor, and 1g/mo16:00
Arif_that's not a lot :P16:00
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N900evilif you're not mobile much, but tethered.16:01
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Arif_I just reset my data counter ;(16:01
w00tO2 have unlimited internet (probably with strings attached) as a bolton for £20/mo, one month rolling contract16:01
N900eviland download podcasts forex off device16:01
N900evilw00t, yeah. this package is great value if you make few calls and texts, and 1g/mo works for you16:02
w00t1g is probably a bit too small tbh.16:03
mmgcsnewbie question... can anyone help me resolve an error i'm getting while trying to "apt-get update" in scratchbox -> GPG error: fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'16:03
N900evil30 quid for calls and net for 6mo16:03
Arif_6 months?16:03
pupniktried google mmgcs ?16:04
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* Arif_ hands N900evil some media to stream16:05
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w00tYou may not use your SIM Card in any device to allow the continuous streaming of any audio / video content, enable P2P or file sharing or use them in such a way that adversely impacts the service to other O2 customers. If O2 reasonably suspect you are not acting in accordance with this policy O2 reserves the right to impose further charges or disconnect your tariff at any time, having attempted to contact you first.16:06
w00tthat is hilariously openly worded16:07
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pupnikw00t: what country?16:07
w00tpupnik: UK16:08
N900evilArif_, most times I'm out, I am driving, or doing stuff or in wifi range, so...16:08
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w00tit's a little depressing how much the mobile providers here suck for serious usage16:09
jiajiacao ni ma16:09
N900evilw00t, getting better thojugh.16:09
pupniki finally found 3g prepaid for 10 eu / mo16:09
Khertanit s cheap ...16:10
Khertanprepaid here is 1 / Mo ... where in french Mo isn't month... but Mega Octets ... or in english Mega bytes16:10
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pupnikow that would hurt16:11
pupnikgermany seems quite good16:11
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w00tI'm a bit perplexed how O2 manage to have a £3/mb charge for usage "outside your allowance" for an unlimited cap :)16:13
* w00t looks at tmobile16:13
pekujaare you sure it's unlimited?16:14
w00tpekuja: that's what they say, yes16:14
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Arif_how does the N900 order the bookmarks16:14
w00tso there must be a piece of text somewhere saying "unlimited actually means 1gb/mo"16:14
MiXu-Arif: I think recently used are at the top16:14
w00tArif_: rand(), as far as I can tell :)16:15
Arif_the bookmark I just visited is in the middle!16:15
MiXu-Oh. Then not I guess =)16:15
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Arif_Those weird Finns really should stop using those weird substances when programming16:15
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fragmentArif_: you mean these?;)
Arif_what the hell is that16:17
pupniksalmiak tastes great16:17
pupniktingles in mouth16:18
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* Arif_ blinks16:18
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Arif_those cookies are black :O16:18
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* Arif_ runs away16:18
JaffaGeneralAntilles: You're a very brave man16:20
Arif_he spread rumors about PR1.2? :P16:20
Stskeepswhat'd GA do now?16:20
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JaffaStskeeps: See /msg16:21
JaffaThe logs may be listening16:21
JaffaBut he also took on crashanddie head on ;-)16:21
* Arif_ feels left out :P16:21
JaffaArif_: He stripped off and ran through tmo saying "MeeGo rules; Maemo drools"16:22
javispedroI have to see it.16:22
tybollt <--- those cookies... do they exist?16:22
Jaffajavispedro: I'm sure if you Google "naked general antilles" you may get *something* ;-)16:22
Summelitybollt: yeah, they do16:22
tybolltHAVE... TO.... HAVE...16:22
tybolltSummeli: Only exist in Suomi?16:22
Summeliyou really can't taste the chili on those :(16:23
Arif_tybollt, you want to kill someone? :P16:23
Summelitybollt: I suppose that they wouldn't be a success elsewhere :D16:23
tybolltI just want liquorice cookies16:23
tybolltsalmiakki cookies though, not the sweet liquorice kind16:23
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Arif_you probably have them in Dutchland too if you look hard enough16:23
Arif_Dutch like gross stuff apparently16:23
zaheermw00t, nothing is unlimited with o216:24
tybolltSummeli: the salmiakki market is HUGHE in Sweden16:24
w00tzaheerm: of course16:24
zaheermw00t, they have a fair usage policy which if you exceed, they have the right to charge you for the excess use16:24
w00tzaheerm: but this didn't even have a * next to it, horribly misleading :)16:24
Summelitybollt: also in finland :)16:24
* Hydroxide would love to find some vegetarian salmiakki in NYC if anyone knows where to find it. (i.e. not containing gelatin)16:24
tybolltSummeli: I don't drink, so I'm not allowed to enter Finland :(16:24
X-Fadetybollt: The Dutch like it too.16:24
w00tzaheerm: I'm not even after unlimited, I'd just like a better deal than "1gb/mo and if you exceed that we will anally rape you"16:24
zaheermw00t, that is why i'm happy at least vodafone tell you 500MB rather than unlimited in ther marketing16:25
w00tzaheerm: but that seems to be a bit too much to ask for over here16:25
javispedrothose days #maemo is falling even more in the dark ages :)16:25
tybolltX-Fade: I think they like the sweet kind not the salty kind16:25
zaheermw00t, although that is a new step for vodafone, i'm pretty sure in december they advertised it as unlimited16:25
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X-Fadetybollt: No, both.16:25
w00tzaheerm: probably, everyone else seems to16:25
Venomrushi'm with O2 (UK)16:26
Venomrushgone past 200MB limit many times16:26
* w00t notes virgin do the same thing, "unlimited excluding anything that uses lots of bandwidth, and oh if you go over 1gb/mo we'll charge you a lot."16:26
Venomrushhaven't got any warning yet :p16:26
zaheermVenomrush, i switched last week from o2 to vodafone16:26
javispedroin a few days we'll all be scarifying virgins to keep the meego gods from switching to gentoo specs instead of rpms.16:26
w00thow frustrating16:26
Venomrushzaheerm, how come?16:26
zaheermVenomrush, price16:26
Arif_We have the same great unlimited internet with most operators16:27
Venomrushzaheerm, ?16:27
Arif_"Fair use of 10x the average use"16:27
Arif_which means you get an SMS to gtfo their internet after 200MB :P16:27
N900evilw00t, t-mobile are very light touch if you go much over quotta16:27
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zaheermVenomrush, i now pay £12 a month for 900 mins, 500MB internet, "unlimited" texts16:27
zaheermVenomrush, with a 12 month commitment16:27
Venomrushzaheerm, voda 3g any good?16:27
jiajiai am in finland16:27
Venomrushzaheerm, ah looks like you're on simfree contract?16:27
zaheermVenomrush, yes at least where i am16:27
Venomrushzaheerm, i meant, sim only16:28
zaheermVenomrush, yep sim only16:28
tybolltI pay ~6 EUR a month for unlimited no bullshit data on my plan16:28
jiajia24 euros for 3000 phones and textmessage and video call and 5M /s as much as i want16:28
Venomrushzaheerm, i thought o2 is really good at retaining customers16:28
Venomrushzaheerm, their retention team usually match the deal16:28
zaheermVenomrush, they used to be, i was with o2 for close to 11 years16:28
tybolltjiajia: ouch, expensive :(16:28
jiajiawell 3G what do u expect16:29
w00tjiajia: you're in part of the world that isn't trying to keep mobiles in the dark ages, I think16:29
jiajiayeah well finland16:29
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jiajiau know where nokia from16:29
* Arif_ has the feeling Turkish 3G is better than most of Europe16:29
jiajiait is a great deal for me tho16:29
tybolltArif_: if only turkey had democracy, too... :(16:29
zaheermVenomrush, i have found the 3.5g to be faster with voda than with o216:30
jiajiahei in finland now it is 3.5G already16:30
w00tI'm thinking I'll go with 3 at the moment16:30
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Arif_you get 4GB/month for 30TL(15€) at 7.2Mb16:30
jiajiathere is no 4G16:30
Arif_tybollt, they don't? :O16:30
jiajianot in turkey no way16:30
Myrttijiajia: LTE/WiMAX16:30
tybolltjiajia: there is too!16:30
tybolltjiajia: 4G ~ LTE16:30
tybolltwhich we have in .se16:30
Venomrushzaheerm, depends, o2 is only good in london16:31
jiajiathat is just bluffing16:31
w00tVenomrush: not true16:31
tybolltgranted - the 4G network is here... no phone as of yet :)16:31
tybolltjiajia: bullshit16:31
w00tVenomrush: O2 are good where I am at least (hull)16:31
jiajiathat might be true16:31
w00tVenomrush: in terms of coverage/speed16:31
jiajiaokey tell me where is 4G16:31
tybolltjiajia: do not spread .fi lies now :), check for 4G/LTE16:31
pupniki got a tower practically to myself.  totally lucked out16:31
tybolltjiajia: sure - STOCKHOLM16:32
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jiajiaokey u telling me even sweden has but finland does not , that won't be ture16:32
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jiajiafinland is a power of phone16:32
tybolltjiajia: of course!16:32
Arif_TMobile doesn't work very well in the metro :(16:32
Arif_they should place more towers!16:32
jiajiawhat does sweden has , IKEA16:32
tybolltFinland is a power of losing in ice hockey :D16:32
jiajiawe have nokia16:32
tybollt1-6 that is just embarasing :D16:33
jiajiayeah i don't care about that people lose sometimes16:33
w00tnorway kicks all your asses anyway16:33
juhovhonly thing more embarrassing would be not to be in the match altogether :P16:33
* w00t dons flameproof underpants16:33
jiajiaokey so finland has 4G now16:33
* Myrtti makes popcorn16:33
* Arif_ consumes Myrtti's popcorn16:33
tybolltMyrtti: Kiitos!16:33
jiajiaMyrtti: cool16:33
jiajiakaikki pitä puhu suomea16:34
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* ptl just ate a whole chicken16:34
jiajiaso manuy fins here16:34
* Arif_ is drinking tea16:34
tybolltruotsi > suomi!16:34
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jiajiapaskaa ruotsi kieli16:35
Myrttideb > rpm16:35
Myrttican we move on?16:35
tybolltMyrtti: uh oh... you will get Stskeeps started ...' :-|16:35
Arif_tea > coffee16:35
zashArif_: RAAAAGE!16:35
furunk3ldont do this16:36
Arif_iPhone > N90016:36
* Arif_ runs16:36
Arif_tea > coffee was serious though16:36
MohammadAG_<Arif_> iPhone > N90016:36
ptliPhone > N900 (it's bigger)16:36
MohammadAG_what if everyone had +o in here16:36
MohammadAG_ptl, err, no :p16:37
ptlwell, it's longer16:37
ptlbut the N900 is thicker16:37
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MohammadAG_much thicker16:37
jiajiathe one multitask is enough to kick iphone ass16:37
MohammadAG_the thickness of the iPhone is too small for me16:37
ptl4 millimeters thicker.16:37
furunk3lare we still tlkaing baout phones?16:37
tybolltseriously though LTE is about to break big time now16:37
luke-jrjiajia: the only thing that matters is hardware16:37
tybolltit'll be everywhere sooner than you think16:37
tybollt_the networks_16:38
Arif_Myrtti, do you still have popcorn?16:38
tybolltthe phone will not be there just yet16:38
MyrttiArif_: no16:38
Arif_aw :(16:38
jiajiau don't understand how important that is16:38
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Arif_round 2 looks interesting :P16:38
ptltell me16:38
ptlI just did a xdpyinfo on the N90016:38
ptland it said 16 levels16:38
ptlthat is 65,536 colors16:39
ptlnot 16 million16:39
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jiajiaiphone is a toy16:39
ptlwasn't it supposed to be a 24-bit device?16:39
Arif_maybe its set to 16 bit16:39
javispedroptl: nokia spain also keeps on saying it's a 1 GiB RAM device.16:39
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tybolltjiajia: what is16:39
mgedminwikipedia claims nokia usa claims it has 16 M colors16:40
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javispedrothey can keep whatever they want, nobody cares16:40
ptlmaybe it is capable of 16 million but it isn't the default for X.16:40
ptlwonder what would happen if I used xrandr to change the color depth16:40
ptlI've already compiled xrandr for it16:40
javispedrothe entire thing will crash16:41
javispedrokill the wm before16:41
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MohammadAG_it will shoot lasers16:41
mgedmincan xrandr actually change the color depth on the fly?16:41
MohammadAG_from the microphone16:41
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javispedroit can't change the color depth indeed in this oldish lenny setup16:42
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ptlI think not, couldn't find such an option16:42
javispedroeither way, I don't believe the LCD is 24bpp either16:43
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javispedroit could be 18bpp16:43
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Khertanfor me it s 4bpp ... it s still doesn't display my vectormine icon :)16:44
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utkuive a windows ce 5 installed hp ipaq and it is not possible to install maemo on it, is it?16:44
Khertanbut a big blue square16:44
javispedroptl: if  you're going to do any tests I suggest trying to first ensure you can exit out of a xorg crash loop (use custom kernel with console, possibily disable watchdogs, etc.)16:45
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javispedroKhertan: rebooted?16:45
Khertanor get a usb cable to flash near you :)16:45
Khertanjavispedro: yep of course16:45
Khertanjavispedro: seems something wrong in my .desktop file16:45
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Khertanbut don't know what without any logs16:45
javispedroyes, it's a bit of magic science16:46
ptlxdpyinfo also says the display has capacity for 24 and 32 bpp16:46
javispedrobut h-d is open!16:46
Khertanh-d ?16:46
trupheenixcehteh, i updated my firmware and emmc image16:46
Khertanhildon-desktop ... ;16:46
javispedroptl: you mean capacity for 32 bpp visuals I guess16:46
trupheenixcehteh, now to check if everything is in order :D16:46
ptlroot window is 16 planes, but depths (7: 16, 1, 4, 8, 15, 24, 32)16:46
Khertanyep it s open ... but doesn't help me as i can't debug it on device :)16:46
ptljavispedro: hmm, can you have a 24 bpp visual without real 24 bpp?16:47
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I'm not even sure. :P16:48
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trupheenixcehteh, but now the cities directory in the emmc is missing ! :(16:49
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AndrewFBlack_is php-cgi available for maemo5?16:49
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jiajiau guys have any idea if there is anyphone better than n90016:50
javispedroptl: I'd say "yes" but won't put my fineger on it :)16:50
cehtehtrupheenix: mhm .. maybe ovi maps initializes it when you start it for the first time, dunno16:50
trupheenixi did that16:50
tybolltjiajia: because "better" is not subjective - right?16:50
cehtehanyphone [tm] :)16:50
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jiajiai have now iphone and n900 thinking but a thired one16:51
jiajiawhich is good u guys thing16:51
villagerptl: I think yes, Xorg will convert on the fly if the app insists on using them16:51
pekujajiajia: because "overall" is not subjective - right?16:51
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jiajiait can be16:52
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mecegtkmm is driving me to do drugs!16:54
Khertanahah ...16:55
Khertanuse pygtk :)16:55
Arif_stop programming!16:55
pekujaare the drugs good?16:55
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meceunfortunately this crap is written in c++16:55
pekujause qt?16:55
mgedminwhich is not written in c++ ;)16:56
mecepekuja, well, it's a work int progress. I haven't actually aquired any drugs yet, other than caffeine and alcohol.16:56
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pekujaso just the legal stuff16:56
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Toxshas anyone tried to port picodrive to the n900 yet?17:15
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pupnikToxs: go dor it!17:22
pupniksdl or gtk for drawing, alsa sound backend17:23
Corsacwhat's picodrive?17:23
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pupnikgenesis emulator17:26
pupnikwriten for gamepark / arm17:26
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Toxspupnik : i wish i had the skills to do such a thing.17:27
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Toxsjust read on the forums  that people have failed trying.17:27
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pupnikwell it shouldnt be that bad really17:28
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Toxsgiven that people have ported it to many mobile devices already...17:28
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Toxsthe one i tried was compiled for the n95 , worked perfectly.17:29
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* Arif_ yawns17:31
pupnikit is fun to port stuff but it is probably better to start with something that at least basically runs17:31
Toxsanyways i'll give it a shot today, since seems to be the best one to get working on the n900.17:31
Arif_did someone say Genesis emulator?17:32
pupnikiirc there is a linux makefile in there17:33
Toxspupnik : most of the time i just look for an alternative when one thing fails to compile in scratchbox :P17:33
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wazdoh this nerdy world17:41
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wazdToday's topics in maemo-developers: AT command AT+CSMP=1,167,0,8 not possible on N900 (???)17:41
javispedrowhat would you expect? "Today's Lost episode sucked"?17:42
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Stskeepsjavispedro: "N900 is a plot hole in Lost"17:42
wazdjavispedro: well, yes :D17:42
javispedroLost with a N900 and Ovi Maps, now that's some movie name :D17:43
Stskeepsjavispedro: i think lbt played in that one17:44
javispedroyes, I read his blog post :)17:44
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VenomrushLost rules17:48
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Venomrushyou know they only meant to do 1 season17:49
mgedminthey got lost in the plot?17:49
Venomrushgot popular17:49
Venomrushdrags on until now17:49
Venomrushstarting to make stuff up like time travel17:49
Venomrushim sure time travel wasnt in the original plot17:50
darktearstill-: ping17:50
mgedmin"Can the protagonist of an ongoing series whose sales are still solid deal with these challenges?"  oh the suspense!17:50
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Tyrant91101Is there any app to use Napster subscription on the N810?17:57
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pupniki compiled lopster but it needs a lot of changes18:02
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mavhctrying to fix my infinite reboot n810, enabled r&d mode and disabled watchdog, didn't help, any ideas what to try next?18:05
zaheermlol @
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ShapeshifterUhm, when I type sb-conf se FREMANTLE_X86 it complains "sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first". What is this about?18:10
ShapeshifterThere's no other scratchbox session, really.18:10
Stskeepssb-conf kill or something18:11
mgedminsome background processes perhaps18:11
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Shapeshifterthanks, found and killed them with sb-conf list --session18:14
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gouverneurShapeshifter: this happens to me after a switch, somehow the other session remains open18:16
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AndrewFBlack_anyone know if php-cgi has been built for maemo5 lighttpd says to install it to get php support but can't find it18:17
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gouverneurAndrewFBlack_: its part of the PHP5 package18:19
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AndrewFBlack_gouverneur: what is name of package to install?18:20
gouverneurhmw didnt look it up but the port should be there 1 sec18:21
gouverneurI look it up18:21
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gouverneurAndrewFBlack_: ok php package itself has not been ported... whats packed with lighttp?18:23
Khertanarg ... ksyslog doesn't record any error for my desktop file and his missing icon18:24
Khertanmegabytes of glib warning ... but not my errors18:24
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gouverneurAndrewFBlack_: thought someone did the package already...
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AndrewFBlack_havn't been one released guess I need to make some requests to people to do it18:26
gouverneurits working, just have to build it from source18:26
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AndrewFBlack_I normally do better with a package to install lol18:28
gouverneurAndrewFBlack_: thats not so hard... my server is just shutdown atm so no help from me sry18:30
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ab_hi all18:41
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Khertan.desktop file format and validation really sucks !!ll!!18:50
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Khertanvectormine icon was show because there was a space after the name of the icon !!!18:50
Khertangod !!!! there isn't any check !18:51
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javispedrothat's why some editors show you line-ending whitespace by default :)18:51
Khertandesktop-file-validate did say anything about it !18:51
Khertanlintian isn't available on device !18:52
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slonopotamusjavispedro, good editors just strip it off and let you forget.18:52
Khertanyeah i ll clearly add a new option in pygtkeditor to hilight space at line end !18:52
Khertanor maybe better to put a option to strip off18:53
Khertanwill be better18:53
Khertanat save18:53
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arachnist <| OMG! ITSATRAP! (sfw)19:04
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* MohammadAG feels stupid cause he can't boot mer properly19:09
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slonopotamusMohammadAG, can you boot it improperly?19:10
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MohammadAGslonopotamus, I can't boot it in any way :p19:11
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MohammadAGN900 keeps shutting down19:11
n00bmonk3yw000p lo alls19:11
n00bmonk3yis the talk pages stuttering?19:11
n00bmonk3ynot laoding up for me :(19:11
MohammadAGnot working here atm19:12
n00bmonk3ymeh :) - life goes on :D19:12
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n00bmonk3yand it's back19:12
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jo-erlendNokia Suite. I use that connection mode in order to use the phone as a modem for my lappy in Ubuntu. Using the real Nokia Suite, you can also access files on the device while you're using it as a modem, right? Can I do that with Ubuntu?19:24
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n00bmonk3yw000psicles - new healthcheck build avail in extras-devel :D19:26
n00bmonk3ysorry Jo - not sure :|19:28
n00bmonk3yi use joiku as a hotspot and winscp to transfer files - so do it differently :P (and use xp)19:28
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jo-erlenddoes joikuspot run on linux? Thought that was s60 only.19:29
n00bmonk3ytheres a very early development with bugs that works19:30
n00bmonk3ycan dload straight from the joiku website19:30
n00bmonk3ybut warning - it does have bugs :P19:30
jo-erlendok. But, in any case, I want to use a usb cable because that also charges the phone.19:30
n00bmonk3ypower hungry, and 1st use often reboots19:30
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konttoriI discussed about the roadmap today. We are trying to make it happen. Need to turn one more head around, and then it should be ok for me to make the roadmap for you guys (just a status update)19:39
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* SpeedEvil watches the head-spinning scene in the exorcist.19:40
* corecode installs 3gb of offline maps19:41
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corecodewow that vfat flash is fast19:42
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RST38hkonttori: wow!19:43
* n00bmonk3y blinks19:44
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jo-erlendwhat's the device name for the wireless nic in n900?19:45
Pillumcan you break the accmeter of your n900 by shaking it too much?19:46
corecodei doubt19:46
Kegetysthe whole device will propably come apart first19:47
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abubakarhow much shaking would that be :)19:47
jo-erlendof course you _can_, but that would require an effort.19:47
Pillumbecause my accmeter isnt working anymore19:47
jo-erlendg-forces would force the screen to fall of, for instance.19:47
abubakarPillum how much shaking r we talking about?19:48
Pillumits stalled on x=-2.3 y=2.3 z=2.319:48
Flyser_jo-erlend: wlan0?19:48
Pillumi dont know how to describe it :)19:48
jo-erlendFlyser_, yes, I found it, thanks. :)19:49
abubakarwhen my n900 was 1 day old, and i went to the beach with it and started running with it in my left pocket, i was worried about how much it was shaking ... i mean as much as the legs r moving during running19:50
abubakarbut it was nothing :) .. and thats the max my n900 has been shaken19:51
abubakarmaybe yours has some software issue19:52
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Pillumis there an easy way to find out the source of the problem?19:53
* GeneralAntilles grinds teeth @ MeeGo-community.19:53
Pillumcause i dont no what to do now :(19:53
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* Arif_ offers GeneralAntilles a Meego toaster19:54
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abubakarwhy GeneralAntilles ? :)19:54
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abubakarPillum maybe send back for warranty ?19:55
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GeneralAntillesabubakar, irritating starts to discussions:
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N900evilthe accel is rated to 5000g IIRC19:58
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RST38hThe Tentacled One closing in on a blonde:
RST38hmoo javis19:59
Stskeepsam i the only one not being happy about relying on one vendor for our CMS needs and development on top?20:00
javispedromoo rst20:00
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, how do you mean?20:00
* RST38h is not happy about Midgard specifically20:00
* javispedro once went thought the "choose a cms" life step. he did not like any single one cms in existence.20:00
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: as in the apps on top of is primarily written by midgard authors and x-fade20:01
Stskeepsit does not lend itself to community participation that easily20:01
abubakarumm i dont know whats cms and whats midguard and whats drupal so dont know whats being discussed20:01
javispedromidguard again!20:01
abubakarlazy to google right now20:01
javispedroen garde! touché!20:01
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Corsachmhm, yet another us question, will an eu n900 have 3.5g on at&t in us?20:02
RST38habubakar: It is ok, just stay quiet for now20:02
javispedromidguard = midgard, a cms. cms = content management system.20:02
RST38hCorsac: No20:02
ShadowJKCorsac, not even US n900 will have 3.5g on at&t afaik?20:02
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: without any technical reasons, i would think drupal would lend itself better to outsiders coming in and contributing features to the community sides20:02
javispedrocontent management system = website author retirement service.20:02
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Stskeepsdue to it simply being more known and that any idiot can set it up? :P20:03
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javispedrobut you HIT the issue! how can be a special site if anyone can set a similar site up easily?20:03
jo-erlendn00bmonk3y, where did you get joikuspot for maemo? I can't find it in the repos and no download link on their site?20:03
javispedrowe clearly need something über complicated.20:04
RST38hStskeeps: I would say the CMS with the biggest number of users worldwide wins20:04
RST38hStskeeps: Safety in numbers20:04
StskeepsRST38h: sharepoint? ;p20:04
javispedroRST38h: wordpress.20:04
javispedroah, touché.20:04
CorsacRST38h: thanks20:04
RST38hStskeeps: Oh. No.20:04
GeneralAntillesCorsac, there is no difference between N900s.20:04
GeneralAntillesCorsac, they're all the same, minus the keyboard.20:05
Corsacwasn't sure20:05
RST38hWordPress may not be such a bad idea =)20:05
Stskeepsi would much like to see more participation from outsiders into the website, as to off-load x-fade and others to focus on higher level things20:05