| Ilamuser_ | Stskeeps: yes it is a N900 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| Ian-- | Ilamuser_: seems more like the usb port to me :/ | 00:00 |
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| Ilamuser_ | cehteh: when you turn it on normally it will boot to the desktop. When you turn it off and insert a usb cable it will turn on, not progress to booting, but not show a usb icon. The white-led flashes twice and then a green led flashes then it reboots and repeats. | 00:01 |
| cehteh | thats strange | 00:02 |
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| Ilamuser_ | lan: yes the battery was fully charged in another phone before attempting anything. i also tried turning off the phone, removing the battery, inserting the usb-cable, and then reinserting the battery. Apparently this can help in some cases but it didn't fix the problem. | 00:03 |
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| pupnik_ | what does flasher say after inserting cable and powering on? | 00:05 |
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| Ilamuser_ | It just keeps waiting indefinitely for a usb device. | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | 64-bit windows? | 00:07 |
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| Ilamuser_ | I'm running 32-bit linux. | 00:08 |
| Stskeeps | sudo flasher-3.5? mine works with "plug in usb both sides, plug in battery" | 00:10 |
| Stskeeps | and flashing starts after that | 00:10 |
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| Ilamuser_ | Yes. It looks like I'll have to send it back to nokia for repair. | 00:11 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 00:11 |
| Ilamuser_ | I am a sad panda [:{]. Thanks for the help. | 00:12 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: ext3 is much slower, but at least the space benefit remains | 00:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | and did you move /usr or/and /var now? | 00:15 |
| cehteh | no just MyDocs | 00:16 |
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| cehteh | worked with ext4 like a charm until this evening when there was a kernel update which broke it :P | 00:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | :-S | 00:16 |
| Ian-- | people how does your n900 battery last? on normal usage mine averages 8hours - wifi is off but i have 3G data connection on....is this normal? i have the latest firmware | 00:16 |
| cehteh | i think i stay with standard kernel .. | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Ian--: that's normal | 00:17 |
| cehteh | lan--: depends quite much on the usage and config .. but that looks ok | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | 3G is a power hog | 00:17 |
| cehteh | put it in gsm mode if you can do | 00:18 |
| Ian-- | well i could but then some sites take longer to load | 00:18 |
| cehteh | means no data / voice in parallel .. and only low bandwidth | 00:18 |
| cehteh | yeah | 00:18 |
| cehteh | otherwise put it in 3G mode but not in dual mode .. switching costs extra | 00:18 |
| cehteh | but if you only want it always on for irc and email then gsm is the best bet | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | those friggin schematics.pdf was fine on evince on my desktop. N900 says "need password" - wtf? | 00:19 |
| cehteh | lol | 00:19 |
| Ian-- | ye i noticed that dual takes more | 00:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | cehteh: Ian--: switching is happening rarely and shouldn't take any noticeable percentage of a upstream connection | 00:21 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: here at my home it switches quite much | 00:22 |
| Ian-- | ye i'm in the same situation DocScrutinizer one room it's 2g another it's 3 | 00:22 |
| cehteh | and others reported that too that switching costs a lot of power ... prolly because of additional cpu and handshakes with the cell tower | 00:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | the most important thing is to keep upstream data volume low, and by all means bundle pacets to more seldomly sending larger bunches of data | 00:23 |
| pupnik_ | the 2g/3g mode selection applet is nice | 00:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | cehteh: if it handshakes each time then frequent switching of course eats bat | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pupnik_: yep | 00:24 |
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| cehteh | looks to me like it handshakes every switch between 2g/3g | 00:24 |
| autoguy | cebit expo has some kind of opensource theme. anyone know if theres any maemo activities? | 00:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | also be aware TCP makes an ACK go upstream for each received packet | 00:25 |
| fnordianslip | DocScrutinizer: not entirely accurate - the window opens up | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | fnordianslip: sorry? | 00:27 |
| fnordianslip | the TCP window gets bigger, so each packet doesn't need acking | 00:28 |
| nid0 | cant immediately find a bugreport on this and still looking into the exact circumstances more, but is anyone aware of a bug where trying to play an unsupported video file in the media player produces an error as normal, but then playing one that is supported afterwards just doesnt play, until the device is rebooted? | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hm ok | 00:28 |
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| fnordianslip | nid0: i've seen that issue. not sure if there is a bug reported though | 00:29 |
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| SpeedEvil | nid0: I've heard of that happening before. I have no detaisl | 00:30 |
| n00bmonk3y | w00p | 00:30 |
| nid0 | ill put together proper details on the codecs used and stick up a bug report then | 00:31 |
| lcuk | nid0, for such a thing, if possible find an example video | 00:31 |
| lcuk | it always helps if something becomes routinely reproducable | 00:31 |
| n00bmonk3y | lol i love that burgerface app/game :D | 00:32 |
| nid0 | yeah ill have to encode some others, the actual videos causing it are full length movies - I can easily encode some much smaller files with the same codecs tho | 00:32 |
| n00bmonk3y | what great idea :) | 00:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | Is mbarcode coring for others recently? | 00:32 |
| V13 | nid0 ping | 00:33 |
| cehteh | .. so ext3: | 00:33 |
| nid0 | im here | 00:33 |
| cehteh | .. vs fat | 00:33 |
| cehteh | 4820384/media/mmc1/MyDocs | 00:33 |
| cehteh | 2099212/home/user/MyDocs | 00:33 |
| V13 | nid0: all those: http://www.v13.gr/files/videos/kde4-1/ used to make media-player stuck with PR1.0 | 00:33 |
| cehteh | if you want to save half of the space, use ext3 | 00:33 |
| SpeedEvil | fat doesn't do holes | 00:34 |
| cehteh | if you want double speed, use ext4 | 00:34 |
| V13 | I haven't tried them with PR1.1 | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | SpeedEvil: (bork vid play) shouldn't restart of some fsckng daemon suffice? rather than reboot | 00:34 |
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| V13 | hm.. not with P1.0 but with the original fw... Haven't tried with PR1.0 either, but it should be the same | 00:34 |
| cehteh | SpeedEvil: yeah prolly and some other things | 00:34 |
| nid0 | any idea on the codecs used? the file that causes the "invalid codec" error is an h.264 mp4, fair enough that the media player cant play it, but it then bombs out on an avi encoded with divx - the file loads, but then just sits at 0:00 doing nothing, pressing play again causes the little dots to go back and forward then return to the first blank frame not moving | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | how to spot sparse files? | 00:35 |
| nid0 | then restarting the device lets the divx avi play fine | 00:35 |
| fnordianslip | nid0: confirmed here | 00:36 |
| nid0 | im just getting some small videos encoded with the same formats and ill put up a bugreporty | 00:36 |
| nid0 | -y* | 00:36 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: without a decent 'du' not easy on the n900 :) | 00:36 |
| V13 | nid0: yes.. that was the case with all those files too. | 00:36 |
| nid0 | did a bugreport exist for that do you know? | 00:36 |
| nid0 | i've had a quick look but its a rather vague problem to track down in bugzilla | 00:37 |
| V13 | i believe that i've seen that somewhere.. not sure | 00:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | cehteh: I,d guess there are other ways than du to tell if a file is sparse | 00:37 |
| V13 | e.g this: ? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5949 | 00:37 |
| povbot | Bug 5949: H264 ipod 16:9 video doesn't playback on N900 maemo media player | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | cehteh: decent find e.g.? | 00:38 |
| cehteh | hehe .. | 00:38 |
| nid0 | ah he's mentioned the issue as "Once you try to playback a file on the meamo player that fails, you need to | 00:38 |
| nid0 | reboot the phone in order to get *any* video file to playback again. Writing | 00:38 |
| nid0 | that up as a separate bug. | 00:38 |
| nid0 | " | 00:38 |
| nid0 | oops, spam sorry | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | apt-get install findutils | 00:38 |
| V13 | that's bug 5948 ? | 00:39 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5948 N900 needs to be rebooted if media player fails to play video (h264dec) | 00:39 |
| nid0 | and they closed it as worksforme - ill open another one with example videos | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nid0: reopen the old ticket! | 00:40 |
| V13 | 5948 is closed as fixed | 00:40 |
| cehteh | yes find should be able to do that | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | V13: so what. can't you reopen? | 00:40 |
| nid0 | it links back quite a way | 00:41 |
| nid0 | 5948 is closed as fixed due to 6823 | 00:41 |
| nid0 | which lists it being fixed in an internal build | 00:41 |
| V13 | I haven't test that with PR1.1 so.. no.. I won't reopen it. If nid0 does the test he can reopen it. | 00:41 |
| nid0 | so hopefully 1.2 \o/ | 00:41 |
| V13 | right | 00:41 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I thought 'fixed' tickets should get haspatch+testing, until eventually community reports a real fix | 00:43 |
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| nid0 | that 6823 bug is rather vague, but 5948 is exactly what i'm seeing specific to h.264 profiles failing to play and has been linked as fixed due to the fix in 6823 | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no way a ticket should be closed because of an unreleased internal fw version seen some patches | 00:44 |
| nid0 | sorry bad wording, they arent closed but resolved | 00:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | resolved!=testing , no? | 00:45 |
| nid0 | though yeah frankly they could do with a qa category or similar and only actually mark bugs as resolved+fixed once the update fixing it is made public | 00:45 |
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| nid0 | rather than setting them as resolved while it's still internal only, then closing it after it's public and tested | 00:46 |
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| iPeter- | Is there any way to use handsfree what is coming on N900 box to change current track to next? | 00:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | err?? | 00:50 |
| arachnist | iPeter-: no. the n900 doesn't support changing tracks via standard headphones | 00:51 |
| arachnist | iPeter-: bluetooth ones work, provided they support avrcp | 00:51 |
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| jacekowski | arachnist: ? | 00:52 |
| arachnist | jacekowski: ? | 00:52 |
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| jacekowski | arachnist: nvm | 00:52 |
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| jacekowski | arachnist: it's you!!! | 00:52 |
| arachnist | well, yes. it's me | 00:52 |
| * satmd checks the barcode on the neck | 00:52 | |
| satmd | yes yes he is | 00:52 |
| satmd | :p | 00:53 |
| pupnik_ | where is the /tmp folder for the n900 browser youtubes? | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well, I think that's kinda bug mediaplayer doesn't support at least pause/play via wired hp-button | 00:54 |
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| iPeter- | arachnist: Okay, thanks. Getting annyoed to grab my phone from poket if there comes crap music :/ | 00:54 |
| arachnist | iPeter-: well, don't put crap music on your device | 00:55 |
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| satmd | hm... remapping the volume buttons... an option? | 00:55 |
| iPeter- | dunno, maybe. | 00:55 |
| iPeter- | Damn. newest ovisuite wont work with the N900. On the Nokia's page it is listed as supported device. | 00:55 |
| iPeter- | satmd: Is it possible to remap it so they work only when plugged handfree? | 00:57 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 installs evince. Mumbes "password protected... PFFF" | 00:57 | |
| jacekowski | arachnist: i knew it sounds kinda familiar | 00:57 |
| satmd | uhm, I can't tell, I just came up with that idea | 00:57 |
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| satmd | hm, maybe that would be interesting to the person maintaining headphoned | 00:58 |
| jacekowski | btw. have anybody managed to use fmtx as handsfree? | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | iPeter-: I don't think remapping ov volume(!)keys for skip fwd/back is a good idea - for a mediaplayer | 00:59 |
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| V13 | hm.. http://maemo.nokia.com/maemo-select/ | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | best you can get is play/pause with short press of hs-holdbutton. And any other function (skip to next?) for long press | 01:02 |
| iPeter- | DocScrutinizer51: Well, i dont use em when headphoned so.. why wouldnt it be. Still its not so good idea, i got a leather case, so pressing those buttons is kinda hard. | 01:03 |
| iPeter- | DocScrutinizer51: Yeah, that would be good but there aint any plugin for it? | 01:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry can,t follow. please rephrase | 01:03 |
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| iPeter- | It would be good to have skip to next track from handsfree of hs-holdbutton. | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | anyway for holdbutton to work you need micbias voltage enabled. Means you probably need alsa/gstreamer/whatever to open the hs-mic | 01:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | mayb mediaplayer even would support it if only micbias would be enabled | 01:06 |
| javispedro | bah, anyone knows where the list of autojoin channels is in x-chat? | 01:07 |
| javispedro | for a week I nearly forgot about the entire meego thingie | 01:07 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 makes a mental postit note to check recorder with holdbutton | 01:07 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | javispedro: in network | 01:08 |
| javispedro | makes sense :( | 01:08 |
| N900evil | servlist_.conf:J=#Maemo,##electronics,#nethack-offtopic,#highaltitu | 01:09 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: thanks. | 01:09 |
| N900evil | also | 01:09 |
| N900evil | menu xchat network list edit then connecting (2) | 01:10 |
| javispedro | yes, my brain needed to be remembered that it's a per-network setting. | 01:11 |
| javispedro | s/remembered/reminded | 01:11 |
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| trem | nite all, sweet dreams | 01:13 |
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| pupnik_ | cu trem | 01:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | Stskeeps: SpeedEvil: seen the batgauge N1130? | 01:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | seems there's no reason the batcharge guestimeater is doing such a crappy job | 01:29 |
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| djkrikke | It looks like mail for exchange or the other built in mail client don't actually 'ask' for connections | 01:41 |
| djkrikke | if not connected to edge or wifi, they just don't get mail | 01:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | djkrikke: either N900 is connected to a network, or it's not. You can't expect mailer app to crank up a connection on it's own guess whenevr it thinks it needs | 01:47 |
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| ali1234 | why not? | 01:48 |
| pupnik_ | i want a good T.O.M.E roguelike on tablets | 01:49 |
| pupnik_ | but the gfx needs redoing | 01:49 |
| bnhw | Do I need to specify _HILDON_NON_COMPOSITED_WINDOW for SDL windows? | 01:49 |
| javispedro | no | 01:50 |
| pupnik_ | got about 300 hours invested into that | 01:50 |
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| bnhw | javispedro: I assume that applies to pygame too? | 01:51 |
| javispedro | bnhw: yes | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | djkrikke: either N900 is connected to a network, or it's not. You can't expect mailer app to crank up a connection on it's own guess whenevr it thinks it needs | 01:51 |
| bnhw | Right, okay, thanks. I might need to rethink the application then; I'm only getting a few fps. | 01:51 |
| javispedro | you should fullscreen it the proper way, btw. | 01:52 |
| javispedro | if it's using the sdl fullscreening calls it's all OK. | 01:52 |
| javispedro | since those were patched in maemo sdl. | 01:52 |
| djkrikke | DocScrutinizer, on my previous devices it did | 01:53 |
| djkrikke | the e71 just disconnects from edge when there's no activity, and checks mail each 30 minutes by connecting | 01:53 |
| djkrikke | that's a huge advantage for battery life | 01:53 |
| javispedro | not sure about that. | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | djkrikke: nonsense | 01:54 |
| djkrikke | ok, why is that nonsense? | 01:54 |
| bnhw | javispedro: Yeah, I'm going fullscreen the SDL-way. It's more likely to be all these floating-point calcs. | 01:54 |
| ali1234 | windows mobile does the same thing | 01:54 |
| cehteh | connectiing itself .. as in handshaking needs more power than a idle connection | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | there's no such disconnect from GPRS the way you suggest | 01:54 |
| javispedro | bnhw: yes, python was compiled with thumb and no vfp at all (on diablo at least, I never checked fremantle build options) | 01:54 |
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| javispedro | bnhw: as you can guess that sucks for fp | 01:54 |
| javispedro | (but check if that still keeps true for fremantle, though) | 01:55 |
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| djkrikke | Hmm, so an always connected gprs/wifi is better then checking each 30 minutes? | 01:55 |
| javispedro | always connected wifi -- sure. | 01:55 |
| javispedro | dunno about gprs. | 01:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | djkrikke: yes | 01:56 |
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| djkrikke | that's interesting | 01:56 |
| nid0 | always connected wifi will = faster battery drain, disabling it either manually (wifi switcher in -testing) or automatically (autodisconnect in -devel) when not in use will give you battery improvements | 01:57 |
| javispedro | not if you're going to wake the thing every 30 minutes. | 01:57 |
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| nid0 | well wifi switcher wont let even you poll automatically at least, but manually reenabling wifi whenever it's needed, even frequently, still gives me a massive power saving | 01:58 |
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| javispedro | with my current beacon period and dtim settings, it's been 48h with wi-fi and still 60% battery on the N900. I hope I can beat the 1 week mark the N810 had :D | 01:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and for GPRS it's even "send a pop every 30min" vs "send login auth DHCP etc, then send POP3 every 30" | 01:59 |
| djkrikke | what is your beacon and dtim configuration javispedro? | 01:59 |
| javispedro | testing with the usual 100ms, but DTIM=5 | 02:00 |
| nid0 | i only just top 48h even with wifi disabled fully 95% of the time :< | 02:00 |
| djkrikke | Ive got the same problem nid0 | 02:00 |
| djkrikke | oh wel..."problem" | 02:00 |
| jacekowski | my n900 lasts for a day | 02:01 |
| jacekowski | when i'm at work | 02:01 |
| jacekowski | as there is almost no signal there | 02:01 |
| nid0 | im in a full signal area with 3g disabled anyway here, and manage about 24 hours with wifi on and idle :p | 02:02 |
| jacekowski | besides, how much skype uses? | 02:02 |
| javispedro | If I don't touch it anymore mine will get 3 and around 8 hours with wifi (interpolation) | 02:02 |
| jacekowski | because i don't really need it | 02:02 |
| djkrikke | Gonna try the device tomorrow with wifi, but I think that's the same I'll get nid0, based on my experiences this weekend | 02:02 |
| jacekowski | and i could disable it | 02:03 |
| djkrikke | jacekowski, a friend of mine is always online on skype | 02:03 |
| djkrikke | he doesn't notice a drain or something | 02:03 |
| javispedro | skype is one of the most heavy from the builtin plugins | 02:03 |
| javispedro | but the heavieast plugins are still any of the non-nokia | 02:03 |
| jacekowski | xmpp is builtin? | 02:04 |
| javispedro | yep | 02:04 |
| jacekowski | hmm | 02:04 |
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| jacekowski | xmpp <-> skype transport | 02:04 |
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| javispedro | with voice? | 02:04 |
| djkrikke | javispedro, you used skype already? | 02:04 |
| djkrikke | for calling | 02:05 |
| javispedro | yes, I'm using it. | 02:05 |
| djkrikke | even on edge it works really well | 02:05 |
| javispedro | it does random activity on network | 02:05 |
| javispedro | thus being heavy on the battery | 02:05 |
| djkrikke | but I lost 20% batt when calling for half an hour | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: then don't use skype.It's a HOG | 02:05 |
| djkrikke | so that's killing :D | 02:05 |
| javispedro | I always mean idle. | 02:05 |
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| javispedro | I'm depressed with the active usage battery life on the N900. | 02:05 |
| javispedro | it just doesn't cut it. | 02:05 |
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| javispedro | but idle seems to be fine. | 02:06 |
| djkrikke | it's too much technology javispedro | 02:06 |
| djkrikke | and too bad batteries | 02:06 |
| javispedro | and a smaller battery. | 02:06 |
| jacekowski | power management sucks a lot | 02:06 |
| nid0 | I really dont understand the reason for the weedy battery tbh | 02:06 |
| jacekowski | it's not aggresive enough | 02:06 |
| djkrikke | I guess I'm gonna buy a second battery in the future | 02:06 |
| djkrikke | it's just doesn't feel right to remove the back cover each day | 02:06 |
| djkrikke | looks like its going to brake every moment :x | 02:06 |
| nid0 | the 1500mah battery in my e90 is the same volume as the n900's, and thats a 3 and a half year old design :< | 02:07 |
| jacekowski | nid0: what's a voltage on that battery? | 02:07 |
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| nid0 | 3.7v same as the n900 | 02:07 |
| jacekowski | because comparing mAh without knowledge of voltage is useless | 02:07 |
| jacekowski | well, that sucks then | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: please make suggestions how to improve power management | 02:08 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i would play with screen backlight settings | 02:08 |
| javispedro | oh, you can play as you want | 02:08 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: because most bright one is too bright | 02:08 |
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| jacekowski | and second from top is too dark | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: you're free to do that anytime | 02:09 |
| javispedro | one of my tests was limit cpufreq to 500Mhz, but didn't do much. | 02:09 |
| javispedro | a session with drnoksnes quickly empties a battery. | 02:09 |
| jacekowski | keep processor at lower frequency | 02:09 |
| jacekowski | and deschedlue apps that are in background | 02:09 |
| javispedro | that's what I did. | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: that's contraproductive | 02:09 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: not sure. | 02:10 |
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| javispedro | before calling "race to idle" note my usecase. | 02:10 |
| * GAN900 hopes crashanddie is publishing mwkn tomorrow. | 02:10 | |
| GAN900 | javispedro, race to idle! | 02:10 |
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| javispedro | :) | 02:11 |
| pupnik_ | all the fun things i like to drain faster than the 810 | 02:11 |
| pupnik_ | but the speed is nice | 02:11 |
| jacekowski | because it looks like there is a lot of apps that are running in background, using processor cycles | 02:11 |
| jacekowski | while there is no real need for it | 02:12 |
| javispedro | jacekowski: as I said, idle time is fine. | 02:12 |
| cehteh | then these are bad programmed | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: we don't want a windows2.0 kind of Monotasking | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: exactly | 02:13 |
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| jacekowski | and xorg is kinda heavy | 02:13 |
| soldiconptr | http://triforce88.webnode.com/ | 02:13 |
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| shamus | one roge demon can kill a battery fast | 02:13 |
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| javispedro | the app that most appears in my charts when idle is .. skype... and it even does random network activity (p2p on a mobile device, genius!) | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: you bet I want xchat to continue logging this chan, even while I'm checking sth in a xterm | 02:14 |
| cehteh | well bit better userland support for fuzzy timers and devel educatio wold be nice | 02:14 |
| shamus | and when you have severla workign in tandom dam | 02:14 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: but it could be woken up only when it recieves some data | 02:14 |
| jacekowski | but that's a problem with irc | 02:14 |
| jacekowski | and pings there | 02:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: any sane app works exactly this way | 02:15 |
| cehteh | jacekowski: xchat does that already well | 02:15 |
| cehteh | skype is a pig | 02:15 |
| shamus | hog | 02:15 |
| djkrikke | will xchat use a lot of battery while being idle? | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | pile o shit | 02:15 |
| cehteh | djkrikke: no | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 02:15 |
| shamus | i thugnt it did on the dilblo? | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | I had xchat idle on 4 chan for 24h via wlan with one batcharge | 02:16 |
| djkrikke | right, and what else was running on the phone? | 02:16 |
| djkrikke | or was it just xchat | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | djkrikke: talking to me? | 02:16 |
| javispedro | it did not use much battery on diablo | 02:17 |
| jacekowski | i would have to compare idle idle battery usage vs normal usage idle | 02:17 |
| djkrikke | DocScrutinizer: yes | 02:17 |
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| cehteh | i have xchat on 4 networks and 30 chans or so and barely notice it | 02:17 |
| javispedro | the first versions were awfull on fremantle. | 02:17 |
| cehteh | of course recent xchat got some tweaks .. any you dont want to enable lag'o'meters and other crap | 02:17 |
| jacekowski | well, i run my irssi on screen on my server | 02:17 |
| jacekowski | 01:17:47 up 409 days, 20:53, 2 users, load average: 0.46, 0.66, 0.64 | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | djkrikke: well I had a short visit to youtube during that 24h. And some 10h of dim backlight and actively chatting in xchat | 02:17 |
| jacekowski | and just get notifications via jabber when somebody highlights me | 02:17 |
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| djkrikke | DocScrutinizer: I see | 02:18 |
| djkrikke | but gotta go, it's getting late | 02:18 |
| pupnik_ | #nethack has 260 users.... | 02:18 |
| djkrikke | bye | 02:18 |
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| jacekowski | just wondering if using on screen keyboard instead of hardware one ( keyboard backlight ) would help | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | djkrikke: and of course mailer fetched every 10 minutes | 02:18 |
| cehteh | ... i restored a backup (apllication list) but decided not to restore some apps | 02:19 |
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| cehteh | now these stick in ham forever waiting to be reinstalled .. how can i purge that list? | 02:19 |
| nid0 | badly need local subscription settings for imap folders tbh :( | 02:19 |
| cehteh | use claws | 02:19 |
| cehteh | modest support for imap is suboptimal | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | modest is suboptimal | 02:20 |
| jacekowski | claws support MfE? | 02:20 |
| nid0 | bad* | 02:20 |
| cehteh | i use it, but dont let it poll the mailbox | 02:20 |
| cehteh | MfE? | 02:20 |
| jacekowski | active sync | 02:20 |
| arachnist | exchange | 02:20 |
| cehteh | we talking about imap | 02:20 |
| jacekowski | and i'm asking related question | 02:20 |
| cehteh | donno | 02:21 |
| jacekowski | from the other side | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh I never cared about exchange | 02:21 |
| jacekowski | i can use MfE only for my contacts and calendar | 02:21 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i use zimbra | 02:21 |
| cehteh | so how can i purge the apps-to-be-restored list? | 02:22 |
| nid0 | is claws actually available for fremantle? | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | you know it's so er... redmondish | 02:22 |
| shamus | i use thunderbird on deshtop | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | nid0: [2010-03-01 01:19:45] <cehteh> use claws | 02:23 |
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| * cehteh thinks about a notification plugin like for xchat for claws too :P | 02:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer | nid0: guess that implies it's available | 02:24 |
| cehteh | yes but not hildonized .. bit fiddly to sue | 02:24 |
| cehteh | use | 02:24 |
| nid0 | okay ill elaborate on my question... "I cant find claws being available for fremantle, it's not in the repo and only listed on both the claws site and maemo.org as being available for upto os2008 - help?" | 02:24 |
| nid0 | ill give the os2008 version a crack and see if it's usable even with the interface then, ta | 02:25 |
| cehteh | *** 3.7.3-1maemo4 0 | 02:25 |
| cehteh | 500 http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/free Packages | 02:25 |
| jacekowski | `0660: 11~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | 02:25 |
| jacekowski | ups | 02:25 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: I tried to see if I could find it by googling hte signal names - but nothing. Assuming it's of course present. | 02:26 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: that is not a final schematic | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: err, context? | 02:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aaah, gaia | 02:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | right? | 02:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: no - the charge chip | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess it's part of the OMAP34xx chipset | 02:27 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: gaia is the twl4030 | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh the charge chip | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | kk | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_management/I2C | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | gaia | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you checked the BQ27xxx et al crap? | 02:28 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | I recall finding no references to a charge monitoring chip on going through the bme source | 02:29 |
| SpeedEvil | just gaia adcs | 02:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: chargegauge prolly closed source | 02:32 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: seen any reference to the test pads? | 02:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or they left it out completely, due to rushing sw to shipping ? ;-P | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: not exactly | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | This is not the final rev. Forex - USB is wrong | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | how is it wrong, how do you tell? | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | A/B? | 02:33 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: it says a/b | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, noticed that | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: and wires the ID line to gaia. | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 02:35 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: also the test pads on the back are wrong | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok... | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | so why do you think ID isn't wired to gaia | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Check page 17 against the device back | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Because there is no ID pin | 02:36 |
| pupnik_ | whoever ported "telnet" thx | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | in a microb jack | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | HUH? | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | really?? | 02:36 |
| SpeedEvil | AIUI | 02:36 |
| * DocScrutinizer graps the big torch | 02:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer | and loupe | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | it *clearly* has FIVE pins | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | But look at J2000 on the page 17. With battery on right, it's the bottom left of the four groups of test pads. | 02:37 |
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| SpeedEvil | The diagram has 5 pads, the device 6, and the arrangment differs | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | okok | 02:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | No doubt that's not the final MP schem | 02:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | If only I had a decent flatbed scanner and a top notch camera for macro shots | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd rip the device right away | 02:40 |
| V13 | you're still looking for the usb host thing or just exploring ? | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Also the components round the SD card are wrong | 02:40 |
| SpeedEvil | V13: both | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | still hoping to get usb hostmode, yes | 02:41 |
| V13 | is there *any* reason to believe that usb-host can be achieved? despite what insiders say? | 02:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes there is: the "insiders are of poor EE knowledge | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | V13: the reason is basically all the reasons that have been raised why it can't work seem to be flawed. | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | or exactly zero EE knowledge | 02:42 |
| V13 | hm.. so you're trying to find *how* it is disabled ? | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's easy | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | It's seeming likely at this point that it's not enabled. | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Rather than disabled. | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | kernel module obviously missing | 02:42 |
| jo-erlend | any sync gurus? I had an N95 which I synced against Funambol. Now, I have an N900 and I want to get the data back. I also want to sync against my Evolution on some laptops and a desktop. How do I go about getting this? N900 doesn't support Funambol for sync. | 02:43 |
| V13 | i don't think so | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | And with the right software to handle the enabling, it should 'just work'. | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: ack | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's how I get those non-final schem as well | 02:44 |
| V13 | before n90 was released, at that huge usb-otg thread, the first argument was that to get usb certification it needed not to be able to both charge from usb and provide power at the same time because it would be able to use two different cables for the same port, which was not acceptable for certification. | 02:44 |
| V13 | do i remember wrong ? | 02:44 |
| jacekowski | well that's not really true | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | That was after launch. | 02:44 |
| jacekowski | because you can provide and draw power | 02:44 |
| jacekowski | but that would require more circuitry inside | 02:44 |
| V13 | no no.. | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's exactly the type of hearsay you get from those "insiders" | 02:45 |
| V13 | they said it already did that. but the disabled it to get the certification | 02:45 |
| jacekowski | i think neo1973 does | 02:45 |
| V13 | they said the h/w was capable of doing so | 02:45 |
| SpeedEvil | V13: I've gone and read the emails in detail - and it doesn't quite say that. | 02:45 |
| * V13 searches | 02:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: wrong, and wrong | 02:45 |
| SpeedEvil | neo can't supply USB power | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: neo FR does support charging and powered host mode. And it provides hostmode while charging | 02:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | noe1973 can't | 02:46 |
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| V13 | this one: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/read/8a4b958ca61811dea77bff41b05c66096609/ | 02:47 |
| jacekowski | Available power in host mode is the full maximum of 500mA according to USB-specifications on the Neo FreeRunner, and no power is available in host mode on the Neo 1973. If your USB device respects USB-standards and consumes not more than 500mA, you may connect it directly to your Neo FreeRunner. | 02:47 |
| V13 | "One of them being that the certification with A connector can be passed | 02:47 |
| V13 | only if full functionality is provided by the SW." | 02:47 |
| jacekowski | well | 02:47 |
| V13 | "In this case I propose that complaints are directed to the USB | 02:47 |
| V13 | consortium. I have really come to doubt that it's actually protecting | 02:47 |
| V13 | the consumers' interests in nowadays scenario." | 02:47 |
| jacekowski | freerunner can provide power | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: why you're quoting me? :-P | 02:47 |
| V13 | "Add to that several HW bugs that were discovered during the development | 02:47 |
| V13 | and needed workarounds." | 02:47 |
| SpeedEvil | V13: that can be read as we diddn't put on the A connector | 02:47 |
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| * V13 doesn't insist | 02:48 | |
| SpeedEvil | V13: the workarounds mentioned are related to charger detection AIUI, and are not directly related. | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | The basic fundamental is. | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, USB2.0-carger-supplement is a bitch | 02:49 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: what i've done to you | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | The USB PHY chip has two wires that go to the USB data port. These are the D+ and D- pins. | 02:49 |
| SpeedEvil | They support - through internal configuration of the PHY chip - USB host mode and USB device mode. | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: you quoted my statement on Neo FreeRunner hostmode and power :-D | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | from om wiki | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | There are no external components required between the PHY chip and the USB socket. | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: thanks! :-D | 02:50 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: btw. why nokia cares about usb certification? | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil | The USB PHY chip can be switched into 'host' or 'device' mode - well really it's lower level than this, it doesn't know. | 02:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's a really good question | 02:51 |
| V13 | it's easy | 02:51 |
| V13 | (a) to be able to say "usb" and be to conform with the E.U. rule about usb charging | 02:51 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: it's probably not following the agreement to do USB chargers if it's not USB certified. | 02:51 |
| V13 | else it would be a proprietary connector | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooh yes | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart China | 02:52 |
| * infobot hits China with an anvil and laughs with a contralto voice ... Haha Ha HA Ha | 02:52 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart EU | 02:52 |
| * infobot readies the nuke launcher and fires some rounds at EU | 02:52 | |
| jacekowski | well | 02:52 |
| SpeedEvil | I wish a better connector than microb had been picked. | 02:52 |
| V13 | the 1.000.000 euros question is: what will the next one have ? | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: see your own reasoning | 02:53 |
| jacekowski | they could do same trick as atmel did with i2c | 02:53 |
| jacekowski | and call it spi | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer by whoever was stanardising on a connector I mean | 02:53 |
| jacekowski | and i'm going at 01:00 to sleep - again | 02:53 |
| jacekowski | good night everybody | 02:54 |
| V13 | it's 02.54 here... | 02:54 |
| * V13 leaves too | 02:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: aaah I C | 02:54 |
| V13 | gn* | 02:54 |
| V13 | gn8 | 02:54 |
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| Lumpio- | I just realized that the browser and the USB port are called the same | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | night sleepers | 02:54 |
| Lumpio- | This is a conspiracy | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Lumpio-: A conspiracy of the microbes! | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | not exactly. the receptacle is a micro-B at best | 02:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and next one calling it microb will get spammed by me with packets full of BGA chips - have fun with the black guys | 02:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | microb usb port! | 02:57 |
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| * SpeedEvil wants to practice his soldering. | 02:57 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: you're off the list - they are after you already :-P | 02:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nevertheless if you want a handfull of those crunchy buggers, just query me | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | got a bagfull - literally | 02:59 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: micro usb sockets? | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | BGA chips and similar crap | 03:04 |
| cehteh | heh ok | 03:04 |
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| cehteh | btw did you figured out how/where it mounts the uSD? .. otherwise i grep that out | 03:05 |
| cehteh | going for ext3 there too | 03:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | /media/card iirc | 03:07 |
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| cehteh | i meant the scripts which do that | 03:07 |
| cehteh | well i figure out by myself | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, not yet | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | grep is your friend ;-) | 03:07 |
| cehteh | and in a while i can do the 'du' game over my mp3 collection .. i am sure there are no sparse files | 03:07 |
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| cehteh | rsyncing right now | 03:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Yeah I wouldn't see how such a fraking amount of sparse space could creep in to a mp3 files collection | 03:10 |
| cehteh | well .. thousands of small map tiles are actual an important use-case for me .. saving 60% space is important .. but i have no idea how they become sparse too, jpg and png is compressed | 03:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ther's little use for files with holes as well | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | on tiles | 03:12 |
| cehteh | i dont care to find the exact cause out, io speed sux already .. maybe one of the next nights | 03:12 |
| cehteh | maybe there is some biggier sqlite db .. but hum ... | 03:13 |
| cehteh | even that shouldnt be that sparse .. i really dont know | 03:13 |
| cehteh | will see with the mp3's later, still copying, that takes some time | 03:13 |
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| sobczyk | hi, why I can't select multiple photos in picasa with shift? | 03:16 |
| cehteh | missing feature at best | 03:16 |
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| sobczyk | and why I can't find firefox in app manager, I have extras-devel | 03:22 |
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| GAN900 | Depressing Modest quoting. | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: ?? | 03:25 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, was going to reply to an email on here, but Modest's useless quoting put me off. | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah yes :-S | 03:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heh, Haiti, now Chile. Is it just me or are those quakes getting more frequent and harder ? | 03:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (not as OT as it might sound - I'm sure there's a lot of usefull apps that could get their own "emergency management" category | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ) | 03:30 |
| cehteh | maybe just coincidence | 03:31 |
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| cehteh | my wifes parents send some pics ... cracks in the walls, tumbled furniture | 03:32 |
| cehteh | ... from valparaiso | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | SanFran, the impacts home in | 03:33 |
| cehteh | well nothing *really* dramatic happend ... | 03:33 |
| sobczyk | fix for no firefox in manager, anyone? | 03:34 |
| cehteh | the richterscale is logarithmic .. meaning the chile earthquake was almost 100 times as strong as the one in haiti ... | 03:34 |
| cehteh | looking at that they are really lucky (or better say they where prepared) that nothing worse happend | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 03:35 |
| cehteh | of course its worse enough still | 03:35 |
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| cehteh | SanFran is very high on the big earthquake list .. looking at history, the next big bang there is overdue already | 03:38 |
| cehteh | everyone knows that it *will* happen .. just not when | 03:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | heh, if Nokia were more alert and smart, they'd throw together navit, tangogps (with online location tracking), xchat (with option for hardcoded hidden channel passwords), (video) conferencing, and a few http bookmarks and other usefull stuff - then flash that to a 1000 N900 and supply to all the emergency response and rescue teams worldwide | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | the ones in action | 04:00 |
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| boolean | evening | 04:07 |
| boolean | i would like to clear up some space on my N800 ( runnign maemo 5 ), is there a way to see what apps are dependant on what libs? | 04:08 |
| boolean | i figure some apps install libs but do not remove them when uninstalled ... | 04:08 |
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| ptl | hey | 04:10 |
| ptl | would it be possible to use CallBlocker.py to play a different tune, instead of blocking the call? | 04:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mma | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | boolean: maemo5 on N800? | 04:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ptl: I wasn't aware of callblocker. :-D The main problem I expect you'll face is to change the ringtone "on the fly". Maybe you could kill the process playing the original ringtone, then launch a player for your customized one. Stopping this one in the right moment is probably very difficult though | 04:18 |
| boolean | hmm.. interesting .. | 04:19 |
| boolean | one of the software tools ( advanced-power ) notes that it is 5,2 | 04:19 |
| boolean | better yet ... 5.2008.43-7 | 04:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | ptl: I did a little investigating on this some weeks ago. Alas I couldn't fins any dbus msg that looked like ringtone-related | 04:20 |
| boolean | i believe tis the latest -> fremantle | 04:20 |
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| raster | boolean: thats not maemo5 | 04:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer cranks up installer/updater on N810 | 04:21 | |
| raster | well not the maemo5 thats on n900 | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | moin rasterman | 04:21 |
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| raster | last i knew the n800 fw images were all os2008 | 04:22 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: 'avo :) | 04:22 |
| boolean | hmm | 04:22 |
| boolean | Nokia-N800-43-7:/etc#cat osso_software_version | 04:22 |
| boolean | RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_MR0 | 04:22 |
| boolean | so nope .. not fremantle | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | Diablo != Fremantle | 04:23 |
| arachnist | raster: some were os2007, afair. at least that's what it originally came with | 04:23 |
| boolean | yup .. just klewed in :) | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems to me like diablo seen no updates neither OS nor apps, for at least 6 months | 04:26 |
| boolean | dunno ... i haven't played with my device for a long time | 04:26 |
| boolean | hell I only discovered the FM radio ability the other day :P | 04:26 |
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| boolean | then again .. what is with all the Maemo 5 on the main page of maemo.org? | 04:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lol | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm pretty sure the 810 doen't have any | 04:28 |
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| raster | arachnist: originally - yes, and 2008 updates got u.. 2008... | 04:28 |
| raster | i havent heard of any maemo5 for n800/810 | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | boolean: maemo5 aka Fremantle is N900 (for now) | 04:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | boolean: seems nokia has no plans to backport Fremantle to devices<900 | 04:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this might change ith meego | 04:30 |
| boolean | well there seems to be something to do with diable being version 5 otherwise i would not have that version mentioned in the /etc/osso_software_version | 04:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oh well, don't ask me about those version numbers | 04:31 |
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| boolean | heh ... | 04:32 |
| cehteh | mhm there is some io congestion problem | 04:32 |
| boolean | ok then what about dependancies? | 04:32 |
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| boolean | ok packageview might do the trick ... sorta | 04:39 |
| ptl | DocScrutinizer: sorry, I was taking a bath. Yeah, I expect to find that, a dbus message that could allow me to change the ringtone on-the-fly. :( | 04:39 |
| ptl | *I expected | 04:40 |
| cehteh | maybe gconf .. but on the fly .. maybe not | 04:42 |
| cehteh | i was also thinking about hooking music into the alarm clock | 04:42 |
| boolean | cehteh: i thought the default clock applet does that already | 04:43 |
| cehteh | no | 04:43 |
| cehteh | at least i didnt found out without tweaks | 04:43 |
| boolean | hmm | 04:44 |
| cehteh | uhm 78% iowait .. has this emmc high latency ... | 04:45 |
| cehteh | better dont ask -- its mmc/sd after all :/ | 04:45 |
| boolean | kewl .. what tool did u use to get that ? | 04:45 |
| cehteh | doesnt top show that already? .. its somewhere in proc too | 04:46 |
| cehteh | i use iostat | 04:46 |
| boolean | doh! | 04:46 |
| boolean | and here I was thinkign along the lines of sar or vmstat | 04:47 |
| cehteh | /proc/stat has the counters .. you have to calculate percentage | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: go on, finally check if there's a go or a no-go on /home/usr/ and /home/var. You're used to flashing your device now ;-P | 04:49 |
| cehteh | huh? | 04:49 |
| cehteh | /home is already ext3 so whats the problem | 04:49 |
| cehteh | and no, i dont want to flash again | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem is /usr on / | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | and /var | 04:50 |
| cehteh | well i can copy that over and bind-mount it | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 04:50 |
| cehteh | but that makes not that much sense .. thats something nokia should have done and spare us all the optify stuff | 04:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 04:51 |
| cehteh | now its already fuba .. fixing that here wont help much | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | it'll help with all the non-optifiable stuff, like cmdline tools etc | 04:51 |
| cehteh | i rather wonder why io becomes so congested | 04:51 |
| cehteh | rsync starts very fast (cough) 5-7mb sec the device follows that | 04:52 |
| cehteh | and then it drops down to 500k/sec after some time and the device becomes sluggish | 04:52 |
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| cehteh | and the io on the device becomes even worse | 04:52 |
| cehteh | i ctrl-z then wait for it to recover and continue | 04:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | buffers run out. So bufferd inodes need to be written to flash | 04:53 |
| cehteh | memory pressure is not very high .. lots of free memory | 04:53 |
| cehteh | echo 1 >/proc/sys/vm/vfs_cache_pressure | 04:54 |
| cehteh | lets see | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | won't help when some io-scheduler decides not to use that free space | 04:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | noatime might help a lot (dunno if you mounted everything noatime) | 04:55 |
| cehteh | actually i run systems with vfs_cache_pressure = 1 often .. but that usually needs enough ram | 04:55 |
| cehteh | of course | 04:55 |
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| cehteh | well commit=600 ... but it should flush the log when its full anyways | 04:56 |
| cehteh | vfs_cache_pressure didnt improved it | 04:57 |
| cehteh | i set it to 200 .. since no much ram and reading from flash should be not too slow (but well this is sd ...) | 04:58 |
| cehteh | well and this affects only bulk writes which rarely happen | 04:58 |
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| cehteh | mhm yes the commit interval fixes it .. starts slower but sustains the speed | 05:00 |
| cehteh | hey ext4 was much faster than ext3 | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, obviously a tradeoff between fast bursts and somewhat lower but constant sustainable performance | 05:02 |
| cehteh | well the main idea was to wear (and fragment) the mmc less .. | 05:03 |
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| cehteh | i once made a CF card based system with a friend where we tuned laptop mode up to 1 week .. means it only written to flash when something wanted to sync or things got really tight | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, with ext4? | 05:04 |
| cehteh | nah that was long ago ext2 or ext3 | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | (the main idea) | 05:05 |
| cehteh | with ext4 you have to increase the commit interval as well .. and you have to know the consequences :) | 05:05 |
| cehteh | $ du -s /media/mmc1/Music MyDocs/Music | 05:06 |
| cehteh | 6599552 /media/mmc1/Music | 05:06 |
| cehteh | 6589060 MyDocs/Music | 05:06 |
| cehteh | hey look ext3 needs little more space | 05:06 |
| cehteh | still wondering about the case with the map tiles | 05:07 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders kooking a sync to backlid (aka hotswap detector) switch. Being a battery powered device there's really few that can make it cease operation inadvertedly | 05:08 | |
| * cehteh looks now where this mount stuff hides | 05:10 | |
| arachnist | under the bed. it's afraid of monsters | 05:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you know, if you can detect the oonly possible way to kill the system (bat removal) in advance, you can sync and set commit interval to 50ms. When backlid in place you can go back to hours of commit time | 05:15 |
| cehteh | well .. you remove the bat for a reset when the system/kernel is stuck anyways | 05:17 |
| cehteh | at least i do | 05:17 |
| cehteh | so prolly the sync wont find its way | 05:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | then it's pointless anyway. But for normal operation you don't need to bother about sudden power failure | 05:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | much less than even for a server without UPS | 05:18 |
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| boolean | cehteh: u symlinked /media/mmc1/Music to MyDocs/Music ? | 05:20 |
| cehteh | if you would be a nokia engineer you would earn some good karma for implementing this .. if you are a community member who does this only on his own device and otherwise knows the results of a battery removal this would mean its pointless too | 05:20 |
| cehteh | boolean: no copied | 05:20 |
| cehteh | want to reformat the uSD | 05:21 |
| boolean | ahh .. | 05:21 |
| cehteh | Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org' | 05:21 |
| cehteh | apt-get install host | 05:21 |
| cehteh | ... thinkin ... damnit :P | 05:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: (pointless) agree :-D | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I'm not a *Nokia* engineer (yet?) | 05:23 |
| cehteh | i'd really wish the kernel and base system guys would show up here sometimes | 05:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: nevertheless you spotted my profession quite to the point | 05:23 |
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| cehteh | mhm time for reboot | 05:25 |
| cehteh | or .. lets restart the vpn ... | 05:25 |
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| anotnac | anyone know best media manager to use for tagging music and art, i've tried a couple but it just ignores my hours of effort i've put and shows like before, it can be pc or n900 i just need something | 05:27 |
| tank-man | i use amarok on pc | 05:28 |
| tank-man | and easytag to fill tags | 05:28 |
| anotnac | is easytag pc too? | 05:29 |
| tank-man | yea | 05:31 |
| tank-man | amarok also fills/edits tags | 05:31 |
| cehteh | repository.maemo.org.edgesuite.net is an alias for a515.g.akamai.net. | 05:32 |
| cehteh | .. i suspected it | 05:32 |
| anotnac | thanks tank-man i'll give them a try | 05:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: yep. that's no secret though | 05:33 |
| cehteh | sure | 05:34 |
| cehteh | just wondering why its sometimes so unreliable .. akamai ought to be reliable | 05:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, yeah | 05:35 |
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| Andrewfblack | is auto builder down? | 05:36 |
| cehteh | heh ... seems more than that is down | 05:36 |
| cehteh | and i forgotten to install sshfs | 05:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | downforeveryoneorjustforme | 05:37 |
| Andrewfblack | doc how would you check to see if autobuilder was donw on that site its not a website | 05:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm yes | 05:38 |
| cehteh | An error occurred while processing your request. | 05:38 |
| cehteh | Reference #97.5dee9c3e.1267414685.64f1f45f | 05:38 |
| cehteh | .. thanks :) | 05:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 05:38 |
| cehteh | http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle | 05:38 |
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| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: ping | 05:39 |
| cehteh | 81B/s .. yay i get some bytes :) | 05:40 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: ping me ASAP, only 2h20 left before next issue goes live | 05:41 |
| dracflamloc | hey guys, anyone tried running crawl on n900? | 05:42 |
| dracflamloc | it says the terminal isnt large enough | 05:43 |
| dracflamloc | any way to increase the cols/lines | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | tmo down | 05:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | or maybe not | 05:44 |
| cehteh | tmo is up for me | 05:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 05:44 |
| cehteh | but i want the repos! | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | use jebba's mirror? | 05:47 |
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| sheepbat | reduce the font size, dracflamloc ? | 05:47 |
| sheepbat | use the zoom/volume buttons | 05:47 |
| sheepbat | or use the terminal app's menu | 05:47 |
| pupnik_ | time. keeps flowing like a river.... | 05:49 |
| dracflamloc | hah | 05:51 |
| dracflamloc | thx | 05:51 |
| * dracflamloc smacks self | 05:51 | |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: take a look at etc/rc1.d/K30ke-recv & friends .. dsme handles the mounting | 05:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: errhem, let's look at that | 05:54 |
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| cehteh | etc/init.d/ke-recv actuall | 05:54 |
| cehteh | nothing to see here, move along | 05:54 |
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| crashanddie | I love it when admins put files in your home directory, that you'll need to execute specific scripts | 05:56 |
| crashanddie | but they only test with their own credentials, and gently forget to give you rights to access the files :) | 05:56 |
| crashanddie | cat: ~/.required-file: Permission denied | 05:57 |
| crashanddie | woohoo \o/ | 05:57 |
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| cehteh | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38574 | 06:03 |
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| cehteh | bah | 06:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: LOL | 06:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: is it root:users 710 maybe? | 06:05 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: nha, username:users 700 | 06:05 |
| crashanddie | 710 I would've been able to read it | 06:05 |
| cehteh | exactly .. message "Speicherkarte beschädigt" ... pff | 06:07 |
| cehteh | OS defect i'd say | 06:07 |
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| cehteh | i wonder if the ke-recv does anything else important except usb connection detection and backlid .. lets see what happens when i stop it | 06:09 |
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| crashanddie | cehteh: isn't it just saying "memory card damaged" ? | 06:13 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: format and go? | 06:13 |
| cehteh | i formatted it to ext3 and be happy | 06:13 |
| crashanddie | so where exactly does it give this error? | 06:14 |
| cehteh | prolly at boot (didnt tried) and when you remove and reapply the backlid | 06:14 |
| cehteh | as yellow banner | 06:14 |
| cehteh | i stopped this nagging daemon now .. lets see | 06:15 |
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| crashanddie | it's hardly a lid -- more like a cover | 06:15 |
| cehteh | ok .. i discoverd a daemon i dont need :P | 06:16 |
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| Pavel | Are there any text editors on N900 or in the extras that can open files outside of MyDocs? | 06:21 |
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| pupnik_ | vi | 06:21 |
| cehteh | from terminal and as root you can access anything | 06:21 |
| cehteh | i have nano and emacs installed | 06:22 |
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| Pavel | cehteh: Installed from where? | 06:22 |
| cehteh | emacs from external .. and nano is in some repo .. devel perhaps | 06:22 |
| cehteh | http://sumoudou.org/%E7%9B8%E6%922%E5%A4%96%EFC%9AGNU%20Emacs%20for%20Nokia%20N900.html | 06:23 |
| cehteh | arrgs xchat... | 06:23 |
| Pavel | Also, does anyone know why /var/lib/gconf and all its contents are world-readable and writable? | 06:23 |
| cehteh | well google for n900 emacs | 06:23 |
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| cehteh | who cares .. this is a single user device | 06:23 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: and that is why Maemo fails | 06:24 |
| cehteh | well .. | 06:24 |
| cehteh | there are so much other things i would have to fixed first | 06:24 |
| luke-jr | bad logic :D | 06:24 |
| Pavel | That is true, but the problem is that if attackers can exploit a flaw in a program that runs as any user whatsoever, they can mess with the configuration however they want. | 06:25 |
| crashanddie | helooooo | 06:25 |
| luke-jr | Pavel++ | 06:25 |
| crashanddie | just type "sudo gainroot" | 06:25 |
| crashanddie | and mess with any configuration you want | 06:25 |
| pupnik_ | or "root" | 06:25 |
| crashanddie | hell, it takes under 20s to pick up your phone, open the terminal and type rm -fr / | 06:26 |
| sar3th | i love that | 06:26 |
| sar3th | ctrl+shift+x ftw | 06:26 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: that won't do much damage | 06:26 |
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| crashanddie | luke-jr: it'll kill your bootloader for one | 06:26 |
| Pavel | An exploit can often read or overwrite a file without being able to execute arbitrary code. | 06:26 |
| jo-erlend | does anyone know if there are any table stands I can buy for my N900 if I want to use it as a camera? | 06:27 |
| crashanddie | either stop pasting wikipedia, or say things that are related to the conversation, thanks | 06:27 |
| ShadowJK | oh great, my n900 is sometimes not recognizing charger now :) | 06:28 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: why would it? | 06:28 |
| Pavel | And the odd thing is, gconfd-2 actually runs as root, so there is no need for the directory to be accessible to anyone else. | 06:28 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: ? | 06:28 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: yes exactly .. but to protect it against such stuff it needs more | 06:28 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: non-root can't kill the bootloader | 06:28 |
| cehteh | i dont care if somone deletes the system stuff on my phone because it can be reinstalled | 06:28 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: and that's assuming BusyBox rm is less sane than GNU rm and actually accepts / as a target | 06:28 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: did you miss my point about sudo gainroot? | 06:28 |
| cehteh | but my personal data will be always accessible to 'user' | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: that adds up to over 20s | 06:29 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: GNU rm takes /* as a parameter, woopdidoo | 06:29 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: want to do a typing contest ;)? | 06:29 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: yeah. I'd rm a file named '*' in / | 06:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: ""FAT32, the data took 3.1GB. On ext2, it took 2.5GB"" http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=425224&postcount=20 | 06:29 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: I suggest you try it, you'd be surprised | 06:30 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: if 'rm /*' does anything else, then it is the exact same thing as 'rm /bin /boot /dev /etc /home /lib /media /mnt /opt /proc /root /sbin /sys /tmp /usr /var' | 06:30 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i am finished, all ext3 now .. doing backup and then kick out this ke-recv daemon (update-rc.d .. remove) | 06:30 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: why would someone special-case the latter? :) | 06:30 |
| luke-jr | I suppose it might be sane to refuse to rm anything if any target contains a procfs | 06:31 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: a fingerprint reader would be nice on a phone, not perfectly secure but you are mostly aware when somone gained access, either by missing a finger or ther brutality | 06:31 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: fingerprint readers are trivial to fool | 06:32 |
| cehteh | i dont like typing passwords in public places that can be easily spied | 06:32 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: biometrics is inherently broken by design | 06:32 |
| cehteh | nah .. they have some use ... but are overrated | 06:32 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: find a better method. | 06:32 |
| luke-jr | such as the webcam | 06:32 |
| cehteh | as long you are in control AND you are aware that this is not a perfect method its ok | 06:32 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: then use secure tokens -- one piece of information you know, and one piece of information you have. If either goes missing, no problem. | 06:33 |
| cehteh | for example i use the fingerprint reader on my lattop to unlock 'sudo' ... since i often demo things to people and dont want to enter passwords in front of their eyes | 06:33 |
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| crashanddie | if both go missing, you do have a problem -- but then again the process would be to kill the credential as soon as one goes missing | 06:33 |
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| crashanddie | cehteh: which means that just by taking your glass, dusting off your laptop or area around the fingerprint scanner I can get access to sudo | 06:34 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: also, I bet the N900 has a mic | 06:34 |
| cehteh | for a device like the n900 a fingerprint reader would imo already being an advantage over touchscreen the passcode | 06:34 |
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| crashanddie | public information should not be for authentication | 06:35 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: it may be your opinion, but you'd be wrong | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: easier than that, IIRC | 06:35 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: there are different demands for authentication | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: just put jello over your finger and press :) | 06:35 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: use voice or facial recognition | 06:36 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: no, there's not. We need to stop thinking of biometrics as a form of authentication, no matter how strong or weak your needs are | 06:36 |
| cehteh | entering a password is easier spyable even from distance with a hd cam than getting access to the hardware and find and copy a usable fingerprint .. at least thats the case for my laptop | 06:36 |
| crashanddie | that includes fingerprints, iris, voice, behavioural, dna, etc | 06:36 |
| jo-erlend | I don't like the single user philosophy of Maemo. Even if the device is only supposed to be used by a single person (why is that, btw), it would make sense to use a sane configuration. | 06:36 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: you don't even need a fingerprint | 06:36 |
| cehteh | voice or facial is as strong as fingerprints or maybe less .. neither is perfect | 06:37 |
| luke-jr | cehteh: far stronger | 06:37 |
| crashanddie | luke-jr: not really | 06:37 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: i agree when it comes to authentication for very important or public things .. like passports, banking and so on | 06:37 |
| crashanddie | god damn it | 06:37 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: read what the fuck I'm saying | 06:37 |
| jo-erlend | hey come on... Go write an EEG PAM-module instead of complaining on irc :) | 06:38 |
| jo-erlend | EEG is very secure. :) | 06:38 |
| cehteh | yeah .. this laptop is *my* device .. i dont care about what you think how i should protect MY device | 06:38 |
| Pavel | jo-erlend: I find myself increasingly agreeing with you... | 06:38 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: not really | 06:38 |
| cehteh | its my data, my responsibility .. | 06:38 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: *no* biometrics should be used for any kind of authentication. Whether it's your granny's vista computer, your laptop, or FBI underwear. Use it for identification -- sure. | 06:39 |
| cehteh | if you would demand me to use my fingerprint for anything else i would reject | 06:39 |
| jo-erlend | luke-jr, not really? Elaborate please. | 06:39 |
| luke-jr | crashanddie: don't use it for ID either | 06:39 |
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| crashanddie | luke-jr: it's fine for ID | 06:39 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: crashanddie: you assume an identity is tied to a human person | 06:40 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: sorry you are wrong .. you have absolutely no reason and right to give me advice for my personal things there | 06:40 |
| jo-erlend | luke-jr, are you trying to tell me that my mind doesn't belong to my person? | 06:40 |
| cehteh | and in lack of better alternatives (in usability) i feel comfortable with it | 06:40 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: I'm trying to say that users do not always tie directly to humans :P | 06:41 |
| Pavel | jo-erlend: Regarding Maemo design decisions, that is. | 06:41 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: are you a security expert? | 06:41 |
| jo-erlend | Pavel, I got that. | 06:41 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: other thnigs on my laptop like the harddisk encryption dont use fingerprints | 06:41 |
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| jo-erlend | luke-jr, then you're saying that EEG shouldn't be used to identify a non-human user? :) | 06:41 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: i dont need to be a security expert for my personal responsibilities | 06:42 |
| Pavel | jo-erlend: Other things, I'd have to think about. | 06:42 |
| cehteh | if i decide to leave my house open its my decision | 06:42 |
| cehteh | thats completely unrelated to security | 06:42 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: I'm saying that human entities should be able to get a new identity on demand. :) | 06:42 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: I'm talking about you you self-omnibulated goon | 06:42 |
| cehteh | its my personal freedom how i manage my personal space | 06:42 |
| jo-erlend | luke-jr, really? Isn't that what we call being schizofrenic? :) | 06:43 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: I'm talking on a general level, "it is wrong for the industry, TV and movies to believe that biometrics are any good" | 06:43 |
| cehteh | i dont say you must use fingerprints to authenticate yourself | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: more like multiple personality disorder, but that's at a different level of abstraction :) | 06:43 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: i quite much agree with that | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: think anonymity | 06:43 |
| jo-erlend | luke-jr, why would you like to become a different human being in order to use your phone? | 06:43 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: I wasn't specifically referring to phone. | 06:44 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: that was my only point, sorry if I didn't shoot it across more clearly | 06:44 |
| cehteh | if people dont have control about how they manage their own security and are forced to things which might be non optional then its bad | 06:44 |
| cehteh | but look at the n900 .. how do you authenticate to the device currently | 06:44 |
| crashanddie | you don't? | 06:45 |
| jo-erlend | luke-jr, anonymity? Why would you want that? Good encryption makes sure nobody can get to your files and since your brain patterns would change if you were forced, using EEG would protect you from that as well. :) | 06:45 |
| crashanddie | I mean, whether it's an N900 or another phone (except for blackberries), there's hardly authentication required | 06:45 |
| crashanddie | jo-erlend: only temporarily | 06:45 |
| jo-erlend | crashanddie, how is that? | 06:45 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: only for a limited subset of 'forced' | 06:45 |
| crashanddie | jo-erlend: the whole point about encryption is that you're putting a temporary lock on it. You know that the lock will be broken in due time, however accept the risks | 06:46 |
| cehteh | why except blackberries .. i do the same with my n900 what others to with their blackberries | 06:46 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: nha, blackberries have better security than the N900 | 06:46 |
| jo-erlend | crashanddie, if someone puts a gun to your head and sais: «Calm down and think happy thoughts!»... Would you be able to? | 06:46 |
| cehteh | i am considering encryption for the data and some strong authentication .. but i didnt found a good way yet | 06:46 |
| crashanddie | jo-erlend: I don't see the connection | 06:46 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: I'm working on SA | 06:47 |
| jo-erlend | crashanddie, right. You should try to be more spesific. | 06:47 |
| crashanddie | jo-erlend: wtf? | 06:47 |
| pupnik_ | i should encrypt old hard drives and send them to random .uk agencies | 06:47 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: in what way? | 06:47 |
| crashanddie | jo-erlend: you're the one talking about putting a gun to my head... I was just commenting on the fact that encryption is inherently a time-based lock | 06:47 |
| jo-erlend | crashanddie, I thought you were talking about the identification, not the encryption. | 06:47 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: "force" includes trickery | 06:48 |
| jo-erlend | luke-jr, pardon? | 06:48 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: providing a security hardware chip to the N900 | 06:48 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: you can be tricked into decrypting data while someone is monitoring, in theory :) | 06:49 |
| cehteh | huh? tpm like? | 06:49 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: something like that | 06:49 |
| jo-erlend | luke-jr, of course. In theory, I could become an astronaut and go live on mars... | 06:49 |
| cehteh | well the problem is still usability | 06:49 |
| crashanddie | jo-erlend: again, it really depends what you're trying to protect. If the thing is so important that people would be willing to pull out a gun, and even go over the murder-line just to get to the data, you should've have been relying just on encryption | 06:49 |
| crashanddie | shouldn't | 06:50 |
| jo-erlend | luke-jr, your operating system shouldn't deny you the freedom to get fooled. | 06:50 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: just saying... you're not immune to ALL force | 06:50 |
| jo-erlend | luke-jr, still, it's far more secure than using a fingerprint. :) | 06:51 |
| Pavel | Actually, designing a system as explicitly single-user does confer some advantages, if you take advantage of it. You can, for example, get many of the benefits of SELinux without much of the complexity. | 06:51 |
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| cehteh | crashanddie: at best such a chip can authenticate the device and provide key material for content on it .. but the user interface is the culprit .. how do you authenticate againt the device in a secure way in public places .. | 06:51 |
| luke-jr | jo-erlend: just makes the criminals focus on social engineering | 06:51 |
| luke-jr | which is the worst kind | 06:51 |
| cehteh | and how do you ensure that this authentication just last as long you are using the device for this task | 06:52 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: you should probably read on about two-factor authentication | 06:52 |
| jo-erlend | luke-jr, social engineering is much more expensive to buy though. | 06:52 |
| cehteh | i do that with my laptop .. but its inconvinient for a phone like device | 06:52 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: no it isn't | 06:52 |
| cehteh | to be seen | 06:53 |
| crashanddie | I guess you'll have to wait and see :) | 06:53 |
| Pavel | So, if, say, gconfd gets its own user, as does the web browser, (using suid) one could try to minimize the consequences of applications being compromised. | 06:53 |
| cehteh | crashanddie: do you have a non-spyable way to enter some knowledge/key into the device? | 06:54 |
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| * Pavel has half a mind to chmod -R o-x /var/lib/gconf to see what happens, since gconfd-2 runs as root, anyway. | 06:54 | |
| jo-erlend | why is it so natural to assume that an N900 will only be used by one person? | 06:54 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: partially :) | 06:54 |
| cehteh | for my laptop i dont need to authenticate that often, i can just hide and enter a passphrase | 06:54 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: what if I told you that the information you enter on the device isn't relevant to the attack? | 06:54 |
| raster | for every effort in "securing" the system there is a way to get around it... and it invariably adds pain for the user | 06:55 |
| raster | (invariably) | 06:55 |
| jo-erlend | seems like a perfect multi-user tool to me. | 06:55 |
| cehteh | but for a phone i consider this highly inconvinient | 06:55 |
| crashanddie | raster: yes, but the gain in pain doesn't increase as the gain in security. So for a little extra pain, you get a lot more security | 06:55 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: stop thinking like a laptop user :) | 06:55 |
| cehteh | well in some way it will be relevant even if its onle otp | 06:55 |
| raster | crashanddie: invariably most people are adverse to ANY pain | 06:55 |
| cehteh | yeah .. i wait and see | 06:55 |
| Pavel | jo-erlend: I agree in principle. In practice, I can accept that limitation. | 06:55 |
| jo-erlend | Pavel, why? | 06:56 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: nothing to do with OTP in this case | 06:56 |
| cehteh | otp was just an example | 06:56 |
| raster | so any move that doesnt decrease painf rom where it is now is a bad move (ie its very unpopular and will have people just run screaming from your platform/app/device) | 06:56 |
| Pavel | jo-erlend: Because it does need to function as a cell phone too... | 06:56 |
| jo-erlend | Pavel, and..? | 06:56 |
| raster | as long as you do it "just for me" - well you gave yourself that pain | 06:56 |
| Pavel | jo-erlend: And the assumption may make some tasks easier. | 06:57 |
| jo-erlend | like being the IT-administrator of the company? | 06:57 |
| Pavel | jo-erlend: That said, I would love to see all of a user's configuration being stored in the home directory. | 06:57 |
| Pavel | jo-erlend: No idea. | 06:58 |
| crashanddie | raster: there are a number of use-cases where we remove an unnecessary pain, make it more convenient for the user, and provide much better security | 06:59 |
| jo-erlend | Pavel, for laptops and desktops, I've always felt it necessary to have one or more admin users, and then add unprivileged users to actually do stuff. If I had a company with a few hundred N900s, I think I'd prefer it if each user had his own user name, instead of sharing. | 06:59 |
| cehteh | .. lets see :) | 06:59 |
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| * DocScrutinizer points to a modified form of captchas, like e.g 500 pictures with people known and unknown, and you tap the known ones | 07:00 | |
| DocScrutinizer | eacht time you use another picture | 07:00 |
| crashanddie | raster: on a normal desktop/laptop for example, using SSO which ties in to smartcard authentication can provide *huge* benefits. The passwords are dynamically managed and stored in a central repository, after being encrypted by the user credentials on the smartcard. The user doesn't even know what the credentials are (for Oracle, Outlook, etc) | 07:00 |
| jo-erlend | but of course, from Nokias perspective, that just means that people should not ever share their computers, but the company should buy one for all personell who'd ever need to use one. | 07:00 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yeah there are some of this things .. show pets .. or whatever | 07:00 |
| Pavel | jo-erlend: I agree. And, indeed, although Nokia calls it a "tablet", they still think of it as a cell phone. | 07:00 |
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| crashanddie | raster: if the user doesn't authenticate using his smartcard, he doesn't have access to his passwords -- neither do any attackers | 07:01 |
| crashanddie | raster: instead of having to manage, change, remember a dozen passwords (which usually are the same, or {basePassword}{month} | 07:01 |
| Pavel | jo-erlend: One can imagine a "wireless tablet pool" the way a company might have a "laptop pool" for off-site tasks. | 07:01 |
| cehteh | i still dunno if that scales and wont be exploitable | 07:01 |
| cehteh | or rather i am quite sure it fails on that when it gets serious | 07:02 |
| jo-erlend | Pavel, right. | 07:02 |
| crashanddie | cehteh: are you talking about my security or Pavel's? | 07:02 |
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| cehteh | about DocScrutinizer' comment | 07:02 |
| crashanddie | k | 07:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: if you lock on first fail, it's quite reliable | 07:02 |
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| crashanddie | raster: finally, the direct benefit is that there is only one single PIN to manage from a user's perspective, and it doesn't even need to be changed, just needs to have a specific complexity and then it can remain the same for the lifetime of the card (typically 2 to 5 years) | 07:03 |
| cehteh | yes but setting this up requires some pain .. the user has to supply a dozen or more photos of his family, pets, friends or whatever to a new device | 07:03 |
| raster | crashanddie: still provides you a single point of failure - compromise the uzsers master passowrd + get card and presto. all passowrds compromised | 07:03 |
| crashanddie | raster: it's not a *single* point of failure | 07:04 |
| cehteh | and some things are guessable .. not for a accidental finder of the device but for a attacker targeting you | 07:04 |
| crashanddie | raster: you need the card AND the code | 07:04 |
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| jo-erlend | Pavel, especially with new mobile broadband connections. You could use some centralized storage of users and data so that all users really could pick up an available N900 and use it as if it were a private one. | 07:04 |
| cehteh | for my laptop i use a usb stick with a key on it and passphrase .. | 07:04 |
| jo-erlend | bbl | 07:05 |
| cehteh | plus, the key on the usb stick is regenerated on each login .. so copies will be invalidated | 07:05 |
| crashanddie | raster: if you go to work and left your card at home, the good procedure that most of our customers implement is to immediately suspend that card, and issue a temporary card for that user -- once the user comes back with his real card, the card is unsuspended and the temporary card is recycled | 07:05 |
| Pavel | jo-erlend: Well, Nokia missed an opportunity, then. | 07:05 |
| crashanddie | raster: if however the user loses his card, a simple phone call and all the credentials are frozen | 07:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: yes, but the simpler it looks, the easier any atacker will fail on a first easyminded try. Then device locks, and you need a realpassword to unlock | 07:05 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: yes | 07:06 |
| raster | crashanddie: getting the card is easy - its physical. steal it. | 07:06 |
| cehteh | might be useful to some extent | 07:06 |
| crashanddie | raster: where do you live? | 07:06 |
| raster | getting the code - simply video tape it being entered, watch it, or otherwise extort it out of a user | 07:06 |
| raster | as users invariably forget passwords and write them on yellow stick-notes | 07:06 |
| raster | :) | 07:06 |
| crashanddie | raster: only if they have to manage tons of different passwords | 07:06 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: the other question is how/when to unlock the device .. because you dont want constantly tapping some secrets in | 07:07 |
| raster | does ti matter where i live? :) | 07:07 |
| crashanddie | raster: if it's something you type every single time you unlock your workstation, you tend to remember it | 07:07 |
| cehteh | but it can be stolen or lost almost anytime | 07:07 |
| crashanddie | raster: yeah, because if you're in the right spot I can challenge you to steal one of my company's cards | 07:07 |
| raster | crashanddie: and all u need to do is now compromise the workstation - trojan, virus etc. and bobs your uncle | 07:07 |
| raster | as there is a 1 time password entry to unlock the other passwords | 07:07 |
| raster | you may as well just have 1 password for everything | 07:07 |
| cehteh | some rfid or bluetooth precence would be nice for that | 07:07 |
| crashanddie | raster: you're oz right? | 07:07 |
| raster | yes | 07:07 |
| cehteh | as soon the device it farer aeay than some meters it locks for example | 07:08 |
| crashanddie | raster: whereabouts? I'm in QLD atm | 07:08 |
| raster | sydney | 07:08 |
| raster | :) | 07:08 |
| raster | but a smart card wont helpu with a phone | 07:08 |
| crashanddie | raster: actually it will | 07:08 |
| raster | and the statement is still true - invariably more security comes with more pain | 07:08 |
| raster | more thigns to lug around (smartcards) | 07:08 |
| raster | more things to lose | 07:09 |
| raster | more thnigs to forget | 07:09 |
| raster | etc. etc. | 07:09 |
| crashanddie | raster: less passwords to maintain | 07:09 |
| raster | why maintain so many? | 07:09 |
| crashanddie | 1 PIN + card versus 12 to 14 passwords | 07:09 |
| raster | i only maintain 2 | 07:09 |
| crashanddie | (average in corp/gov) | 07:09 |
| raster | why have so many | 07:09 |
| raster | set them to be the same | 07:09 |
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| raster | as effectively thats hwat u have with a smartcard | 07:09 |
| crashanddie | raster: so someone sniffs your password once and has access to your whole system | 07:09 |
| raster | compromise that 1 pw and all are compromised | 07:09 |
| crashanddie | raster: so that's even easier than without a password, my point exactly | 07:10 |
| cehteh | imo passwords are among the worst ways to do auhtentication | 07:10 |
| crashanddie | now, gtfo and call me when you need a real security expert ;) www.actividentity.com | 07:10 |
| cehteh | they are reasonable secure when done right .. but the usability has all kinds dark corners | 07:10 |
| raster | cehteh: having to type the fuckers in all the time is a pita | 07:11 |
| raster | so int he end firefox ends up just rememebring them all for me | 07:11 |
| raster | hell i have up with gdm login and passwords | 07:11 |
| raster | too much of a pita | 07:11 |
| cehteh | yeah same here, i consider websites (except a few like banking) rather unimportant | 07:12 |
| raster | if u've physically gotten to my machine to try and log in - u already have too much access anyway | 07:12 |
| cehteh | i use uuids copy/paste when i have to register somewhere and let firefor remember them | 07:12 |
| raster | (reboot and tell grub to boot with init = /bin/bash or whatever | 07:12 |
| raster | ic an then go ps locking grub and thenbios can fix that | 07:12 |
| cehteh | well my harddisk is encrypted | 07:12 |
| raster | (boot from another device - i have it set to boot off cd/dvd/usb storage if available anyway) | 07:12 |
| raster | and so on | 07:12 |
| raster | the chain u havew to secure.. is a PAIN | 07:12 |
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| cehteh | and the laptop locks when i close the lid .. and i do that always when i leave it | 07:13 |
| raster | so why pretend - may as well just boot in to my user and be done with it | 07:13 |
| raster | :) | 07:13 |
| raster | cehteh: can take hdd out :) | 07:13 |
| raster | but if u encyprt $HOME - thats pretty good | 07:13 |
| cehteh | encrypted i saied | 07:13 |
| raster | still is a pain tho | 07:13 |
| cehteh | its not | 07:13 |
| Pavel | The question I am interested in at the moment is how hard is it to compromise an N900 without direct physical access. | 07:13 |
| cehteh | for me this is the ideal compromise | 07:13 |
| raster | if i can get to your hdd - i can comproise your kernel and get your decrypt key for $HOME | 07:14 |
| raster | Pavel: by an attack or via trojans? | 07:14 |
| cehteh | Pavel: that likely depends very much on what the user has running/installed | 07:14 |
| raster | (ie try and find an open/buggy service or kernel bug on tcp etc.)? | 07:14 |
| cehteh | i dont want to know all the flaws skype has | 07:14 |
| raster | or u are more thinking buffer overflows via web browser etc.? | 07:14 |
| cehteh | plus microb | 07:15 |
| cehteh | and tons of community coded communication apps .. jabber, irc, whatever | 07:15 |
| Pavel | cehteh: Indeed. | 07:15 |
| raster | my bet is that there are tonnes of flaws | 07:16 |
| raster | the vast majority - undiscovered. | 07:16 |
| cehteh | yes | 07:16 |
| raster | in any sufficiently complex set of softywre - u will have bugs, and some of those will be "exploitable" | 07:16 |
| cehteh | i discovered a few days ago that ovi chat already makes suspicious connections | 07:16 |
| Pavel | cehteh: I was thinking those over and above a PC with a Debian installation and a comparable set of applications (a web browser, a Skype client, IM software, etc.). | 07:16 |
| raster | the question is - where are they and how many hoops do you - or the user, have to jump thru? | 07:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: hw-pw-cryped HDD and pw in BIOS is reasonably safe | 07:16 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: i trust open source kernel encryption more | 07:17 |
| Pavel | DocScrutinizer: Depends on the threat model. | 07:17 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: for full hdd - yes. but for $HOME - that'd be done via the kernel - thus its trappable if the kernel can be compromised | 07:17 |
| cehteh | well treat model .. | 07:17 |
| raster | and if u have access to the machine for just long enouhg | 07:17 |
| Pavel | raster: Or your keyboard. | 07:17 |
| cehteh | no one knows if ibm has some master key for example | 07:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | raster: I said HW-pw-crypted hdd | 07:17 |
| raster | unscrew,. take out hdd, mount, put in fcompromised kernel, stick back in laptop, presto. | 07:17 |
| cehteh | given to the fbi | 07:18 |
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| raster | DocScrutinizer: pw needs to be provided via the kernel if its $HOME | 07:18 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: as cehteh said - he encrypts $HOME | 07:18 |
| raster | via kernel level encryption | 07:18 |
| Pavel | Any thoughts? | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wasn't refering to cehteh | 07:18 |
| cehteh | exactly ... you can already have a hacked bios with a key sniffer | 07:18 |
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| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: hence i argue against hw encryption | 07:19 |
| cehteh | there is a level of trust involved i dont have .. it doesnt give me any gain | 07:19 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: kernel can modify bios - patch it. compromisable. | 07:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | raster: of course if you're second one after any malware, you're busted any day | 07:20 |
| cehteh | against some causual thief just using linux would already enough :P | 07:20 |
| raster | u'd need a full chain with signed kernel to begint o make it secure | 07:20 |
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| raster | cehteh: for a casual thief - you're fine | 07:20 |
| raster | for somehow who knows his shit and wants your data... it's theirs= to have. | 07:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | a virus could have infected the bios flasher I use to JTAG a new bios on a fresh machine | 07:21 |
| cehteh | well i make it hard :) .. well what was this xkcd .. moment | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | a virus could have infected Intel's chip designing tools | 07:21 |
| cehteh | http://xkcd.com/538/ | 07:21 |
| Pavel | That is, about the relative insecurity against an automated or semi-automated remote attack of an N900 compared to a Debian PC which is always on and connected to the Internet, with Skype, a web browser, IM, etc. installed and used regularly. | 07:22 |
| raster | cehteh: hahahahahahaha - so true | 07:22 |
| cehteh | i have at least some level of plausible denyability .. when i manage to destroy the usb token with the key no one can retrieve the data | 07:22 |
| raster | Pavel: i'd say your n900 is more secure. | 07:23 |
| cehteh | and it really comes to plausible deniablity (and the recognition thereof) | 07:23 |
| Pavel | DocScrutinizer: To be fair, I wouldn't call such a thing a "virus" --- it would have to be a highly specialized attack, rather than a general-purpose self-reproducing code. | 07:23 |
| Pavel | raster: Interesting. Why? | 07:23 |
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| raster | Pavel: arm vs x86 | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pavel: much smaller target base | 07:25 |
| Pavel | That doesn't make that much of a difference, since the malware only has to be written once. | 07:25 |
| Pavel | That said, I am just guessing. | 07:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, but risk = # of vulnerabilities * # of attacks | 07:26 |
| raster | Pavel: the n900 will be more secure because | 07:27 |
| cehteh | test vpn | 07:27 |
| raster | 1. its running fewer services than most debian pc's. | 07:27 |
| cehteh | what a lag,but works | 07:27 |
| cehteh | did you nmap the n900 what ports are open? | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I did | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | nuttin found | 07:28 |
| raster | 2. it's not x86 - th vast majority of explots and attacks are aimed at x866 - they are targetted as finding a flaw and baing able to insert some code - like actual binary that will jump off and run something/do something. the virtua writers/attackers are all focused on x86 - they mostly dont care or worry about arm. also they'd havfe to learn arm opcodes to d the same - and a small eprcentage of them may know arm - but its small compared to | 07:28 |
| raster | the mass of them knowing x86 | 07:28 |
| raster | so by sheer numbers - you're more secure as there are frankly fewer attacks - if any. | 07:28 |
| arachnist | my n900 has 22 and 80 open | 07:28 |
| cehteh | well there are some iphone viri | 07:29 |
| raster | cehteh: they do exist | 07:29 |
| Pavel | 80? | 07:29 |
| cehteh | arachnist: both intentional i guess | 07:29 |
| raster | its not a matter of 'can it happen' its "is it likely to happen" | 07:29 |
| arachnist | cehteh: yes | 07:29 |
| arachnist | Pavel: http | 07:29 |
| cehteh | and udp? | 07:29 |
| Pavel | arachnist: I know. But why? | 07:29 |
| ptl | DocScrutinizer: I was looking at the dbus methods and properties and saw that on org.maemo.Playback there are many properties on each stream, namely State, pid and such. For changing the alarm, couldn't you just add a hook to org.maemo.Playback, check when it's the phone application (by pid) that is calling it, check if it is an alarm ring, change just the wav/mp3 file on-the-fly if the number belongs to a set, and get on with that? | 07:29 |
| ptl | DocScrutinizer: I mean, for the alarms by contact stuff | 07:29 |
| Pavel | Also, AFAIK most actual exploits nowadays involve vulnerabilities in client software the victim runs. | 07:30 |
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| cehteh | yeah | 07:30 |
| raster | arachnist: whats on port 80? | 07:30 |
| Pavel | And N900 has an old version of flash *shudder*. | 07:30 |
| raster | nothing on my n900 on port 80 | 07:30 |
| cehteh | has root a password? | 07:31 |
| cehteh | here not .. only key auth | 07:31 |
| Pavel | Quick question --- is there a way to become root if gainroot is not installed? | 07:31 |
| ptl | yes, rootme, isn't it? | 07:31 |
| ptl | Pavel: by openssh | 07:32 |
| cehteh | or R&D mode | 07:32 |
| arachnist | raster: lighttpd here | 07:32 |
| raster | arachnist: welkl thats definitely not a default setup :) | 07:32 |
| cehteh | but all require some things to install or tweak | 07:32 |
| raster | u've added that later yourself | 07:32 |
| raster | :) | 07:32 |
| Pavel | What if SSH server is not installed, and R&D mode is disabled? | 07:33 |
| raster | hmm | 07:33 |
| raster | 'tcp port 53 is open on n900 | 07:33 |
| ptl | well, what if the screen is broken and the battery is off the device? | 07:33 |
| raster | odd - its running a n open dns server there | 07:33 |
| ptl | :P | 07:33 |
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| raster | that shoul dbe local only | 07:33 |
| raster | odd | 07:33 |
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| ptl | Pavel: you enable R&D mode! easy | 07:33 |
| Pavel | ptl: I was describing the software configuration of a typical user. | 07:33 |
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| arachnist | Pavel: i sync photos and music over it (webdav) | 07:34 |
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| Pavel | ptl: I am willing to bet that majority of even the rather geeky N900 demographic does not have SSH serve installed. | 07:34 |
| cehteh | grr server still down | 07:34 |
| raster | Pavel: btw those exploits almost always rely on... x86 code to bve executed | 07:34 |
| raster | sure - there may be ones that inject java bytecode | 07:34 |
| raster | or flash bytecode into buffers etc. | 07:34 |
| raster | but they will be much rarer | 07:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, lost connection after [2010-03-01 06:29:50] <ptl> DocScrutinizer: I mean, for the alarms by contact stuff | 07:35 |
| Pavel | raster: Attackers adapt. | 07:35 |
| * cehteh would like to add some password for gainroot .. | 07:35 | |
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| Pavel | raster: Is the ARM architecture inherently less vulnerable to these things? | 07:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ptl: you can't change on the fly. You are not dbusd | 07:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | but maybe you can finish the first ringtone and immediately issue your own | 07:35 |
| Pavel | cehteh: Can't you edit sudoers to do that? | 07:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ptl: but, as I mentioned before, I did a dbus-monitor (-s) and scrutinized each line of both logs of a inbound call, and I'm quite sure I've not seen any call to any *.playback | 07:35 |
| raster | Pavel: they do - but u asked if the debian pc vs n900 .. which is more secure given a typical set of usage - n900 is - by far. | 07:35 |
| cehteh | Pavel: yep | 07:35 |
| raster | yes - attackers can adapt | 07:35 |
| raster | but they havent | 07:35 |
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| ptl | DocScrutinizer: oh, I was just going to do that. :( | 07:35 |
| raster | and they wont until it becomes worth their while | 07:35 |
| raster | thats why windows is where all the action is | 07:35 |
| Pavel | raster: How would you know if they did? | 07:36 |
| raster | windows is the vast majority os and thus its what they attack | 07:36 |
| ptl | Pavel: this is about an exploit getting root access? | 07:36 |
| raster | Pavel: the same way u'd know they did for your pc | 07:36 |
| Pavel | raster: Fair enough. Let's hope this approach --- of being secure because the architecture/OS combination you use is used by so few --- is so obscure --- works. We'll call it "security through obscurity". :P | 07:37 |
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| raster | Pavel: it does work | 07:37 |
| raster | its not ABSOLUTE security | 07:37 |
| raster | there is no such thing give any sufficiently complex bit of software | 07:37 |
| raster | there is only relative security | 07:37 |
| Pavel | raster: I was referring specifically to the x86/ARM divide. | 07:37 |
| raster | the more obscure u are the lower the chance that u will be attacked - successfully. | 07:38 |
| Pavel | The reason I am so interested in this issue is that I am trying to decide whether I can trust the device to store my passwords. | 07:38 |
| raster | if u are asking "is the n900 100% absolutely secure" the answer is no | 07:38 |
| raster | neither is the debian pc | 07:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway it worked for Mac, it worked for linux. And both are much larger target base | 07:38 |
| raster | or a host of os's and machines | 07:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | than N900 | 07:39 |
| raster | its all about the relative risk | 07:39 |
| raster | and the n900 will have a lower relative sick to a debian pc | 07:39 |
| Pavel | raster: Right. The question is about their relative vulnerabilities: what makes one more vulnerable or less vulnerable than the other. | 07:39 |
| raster | its a cat and mosue game | 07:39 |
| raster | or game of attrition | 07:39 |
| raster | if everyone uses the same os on the same hw | 07:40 |
| Pavel | raster: For example, a world-writable system-wide configuration directory might help an attacker, should one decide to attack... | 07:40 |
| raster | well.. attackers have an easy job | 07:40 |
| raster | target 1 thing only | 07:40 |
| raster | the more combinations of os + architecture the more work they have | 07:40 |
| raster | so either they will spplit that effort evenly over everything | 07:40 |
| raster | or relatively based on attack success probability | 07:40 |
| raster | attackers dont have unlimited resource | 07:41 |
| raster | if u simply "strain" their resources - they will be less successful | 07:41 |
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| raster | Pavel: yes. it may help them | 07:41 |
| raster | but.. if an attacker is targetting you and gets into a process run as your user id... game over man. game over. | 07:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | risk = # of vulnerabilities * # of attacks | 07:42 |
| raster | give me that acces - and i have access to your display. access to your display (x) means your arse is mine. | 07:42 |
| raster | you are so owned. | 07:42 |
| raster | the question is.. if they get that far - actually compromise your application successfully - they likely then have targetted this attack for an n900 | 07:43 |
| Pavel | I am seeing 53 TCP open on mine... | 07:43 |
| raster | and i'd say bets are all off if they get that far as they will use whatever local weakness they know of | 07:43 |
| raster | and u'll have lots of them | 07:43 |
| Stskeeps | Pavel: dnsmasq | 07:43 |
| raster | Pavel: yeah. dns. nodd. as imentioned above | 07:43 |
| raster | it shouldnt be listening externally | 07:43 |
| raster | just on the local loopback | 07:43 |
| raster | i'd say thats a configuration oversight | 07:44 |
| Pavel | That was nmap localhost. | 07:45 |
| Pavel | So that's OK. | 07:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 07:46 |
| Pavel | nmap from outside shows port 1042, which nmap from within doesn't. | 07:46 |
| * DocScrutinizer suggests netstat -tupla --- faster | 07:47 | |
| cehteh | #53 is dnsmasq | 07:47 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: fail beezybox has no -p | 07:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | fail - I don't use messybox | 07:48 |
| cehteh | hehe | 07:48 |
| cehteh | well for real embedded things it might make sense .. | 07:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw busybox is suid root usually :-P | 07:48 |
| cehteh | but hey the n900 is markteted as internet tablet | 07:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | now if THAT'S no security issue XP | 07:48 |
| cehteh | yeah | 07:48 |
| cehteh | well tell me when you at nokia and fix the partitioning stuff ... then we can look forward a real gnu userland | 07:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 07:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm EE. Ranting about system stuff is mere hobby ;-) | 07:50 |
| cehteh | ok | 07:50 |
| Pavel | That's odd... 1042 is closed a few minutes later. | 07:50 |
| cehteh | and my n900 work now nice .. even after reboot | 07:50 |
| cehteh | Pavel: skype? | 07:50 |
| Pavel | cehteh: Probably. | 07:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouuuuuuch | 07:51 |
| Pavel | cehteh: Everything else is pure client. | 07:51 |
| cehteh | ovi chat does very strange things btw | 07:51 |
| cehteh | and since ovi share never worked for me i am considering to ditch that crap | 07:51 |
| Pavel | cehteh: What's Ovi Chat? | 07:52 |
| cehteh | haha i dont even know .. some chat service you get with an ovi account | 07:52 |
| cehteh | never used it and i have no contacts there | 07:52 |
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| cehteh | i just wanted to try the photo upload things but that failed too | 07:53 |
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| cehteh | i really want a sftp sharing plugin to upload to my server | 07:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, you can even /msg other ovi users, if you know their address etc | 07:53 |
| cehteh | but well i prolly just mount it with sshfs | 07:53 |
| Pavel | cehteh: Ah. | 07:54 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: you have an ovi account? | 07:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 07:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 07:54 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: I have to build the issue, don't have access to twitter so it'll be light | 07:54 |
| cehteh | did picture sharing ever worked for you and am i to stupid to use it? | 07:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | that is, I had | 07:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno if I killed it | 07:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | (oic share) once it kinda worked, yeah | 07:55 |
| cehteh | always crashes here | 07:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | though it was a hell to find the public URL where that crap went to | 07:55 |
| ShadowJK | picture sharing over internet or over 3g? :P | 07:56 |
| * Pavel created his a few days ago to try Firefox from the Ovi store. | 07:56 | |
| ShadowJK | the 3g variant isn't supported | 07:56 |
| cehteh | yep sharing plugin for sftp/scp would be so much nicer | 07:56 |
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| cehteh | ShadowJK: wlan | 07:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeeek, it's even active | 07:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | omg | 07:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: it's possible (abd rather simple?) to write own plugins for share services | 07:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik | 07:59 |
| cehteh | yeah | 07:59 |
| cehteh | i wait for someone doing that :P | 07:59 |
| cehteh | i am not gtk/gui programmer | 08:00 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles: so that went nicely to shit... can't write to www dir | 08:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I guess it's a number of short config files | 08:00 |
| cehteh | nope its really code to write with a library api | 08:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | eeek | 08:00 |
| cehteh | but not terribly complicated | 08:00 |
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| cehteh | i may try someday | 08:01 |
| Pavel | By the way, I've been trying to figure something out. There is a /home/user/.gnupg that comes on a fresh N900. The directory is owned by root (not user) and contains only one file: trustdb.gpg . Does anybody have any idea what it's there for and what it does? | 08:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | given the idiotic "chroot" to MyDocs, I give a shit about integrated share services | 08:01 |
| cehteh | Pavel: did you installed claws or gpg extensions for modest? | 08:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | user menu script for mc, so much more versatile | 08:02 |
| Pavel | cehteh: No, I didn't. Like I said, I first noticed it on a fresh install, a month ago. | 08:02 |
| cehteh | ah i have that too | 08:03 |
| Pavel | cehteh: Also, it's owned by the root, not user. | 08:03 |
| Stskeeps | Pavel: app manager | 08:04 |
| cehteh | yeah prolly installed on a fresh device .. trusting nokia, the fbi and the mossad | 08:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | signed pkgs | 08:04 |
| cehteh | actually its empty | 08:04 |
| cehteh | are package on maemo signed? | 08:04 |
| Pavel | DocScrutinizer: The thing is, there is a different place for the keys used to sign Debian packages. | 08:05 |
| Pavel | cehteh: I hope to any deities that might exist that they are... | 08:05 |
| cehteh | well look at that file its a empty db | 08:05 |
| Pavel | cehteh: Is it an empty file? | 08:05 |
| Pavel | Mine wasn't. | 08:06 |
| cehteh | looks like a empty db, not empty file | 08:06 |
| Pavel | cehteh: Ah. | 08:06 |
| Pavel | cehteh: How do you show contents of trustdb? | 08:06 |
| cehteh | header and some null bytes | 08:06 |
| cehteh | i just used less :) | 08:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | what else | 08:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | the *real* less | 08:06 |
| cehteh | hd, gpg, | 08:06 |
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| cehteh | yes the real less | 08:07 |
| ali1234 | hexdump -C | 08:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if less can't do it, use mc ;-) | 08:07 |
| cehteh | i dont need hexdump to recognize null-bytes :P | 08:07 |
| cehteh | heh i dont use mc | 08:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | if mc can't do it, it's not worth to be done at all | 08:08 |
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| Pavel | Well, it gets in the way of the user's GPG. | 08:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 08:09 |
| Stskeeps | file a bug? | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | *fail* | 08:09 |
| Pavel | It's owned by root, so the user can't overwrite it. | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh yeah, if we got a buck for a bug filed | 08:09 |
| Pavel | The one time they actually care about privileges. | 08:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | rotfl | 08:10 |
| Pavel | By the way, the bugs for the bits written by Nokia go to bugs.maemo.org, right? | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | you ain't seen nothing yet | 08:10 |
| cehteh | LESSBINFMT='*k%x' less /home/user/.gnupg/trustdb.gpg | 08:10 |
| cehteh | eeek :) | 08:10 |
| Pavel | DocScrutinizer: Eh? | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | check out SHR (Openmoko system) | 08:11 |
| Pavel | cehteh: Eh? | 08:11 |
| Stskeeps | Pavel: right | 08:11 |
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| cehteh | try it :) | 08:11 |
| Stskeeps | and extras stuff | 08:11 |
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| * Pavel doesn't have less installed. | 08:11 | |
| cehteh | on some other comp then | 08:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: hehehe | 08:13 |
| dracflamloc | mikkov, you around? | 08:13 |
| ali1234 | i don't have any trustdb.gpg... | 08:14 |
| Pavel | DocScrutinizer: What's SHR? | 08:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR | 08:15 |
| Pavel | OK, in what rubric am I supposed to report that? https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Maemo%20Official%20Platform | 08:16 |
| cehteh | damn .. 1. march .. no time for my 1.st april project | 08:16 |
| Stskeeps | Pavel: Security, possibly | 08:16 |
| crashanddie | Maemo Weekly News: 1 March 2010 is up. Get it now at http://www.mwkn.net | 08:16 |
| Pavel | ali1234: Interesting. So nothing in /home/user/.gnupg/ ? | 08:16 |
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| Pavel | Is BugZilla account distinct from the Garage account? | 08:18 |
| Stskeeps | yes, sadly | 08:19 |
| Pavel | @#$% | 08:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pavel: system software | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: no security ? | 08:23 |
| Pavel | By the way, does anyone _not_ have root-owned /home/user/.gnupg/ on their N900? | 08:23 |
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| cehteh | yes i do :P | 08:23 |
| cehteh | eh wrong .. i have | 08:24 |
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| Pavel | ali1234: Can you take a look? | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pavel: I confirm | 08:25 |
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| * Pavel wonders if maybe they got rid of it in more recent devices. | 08:26 | |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, my firmware is as recent as it gets | 08:26 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders if ali1234 missed the dot | 08:27 | |
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| Pavel | DocScrutinizer: Sure, but a firmware upgrade wouldn't delete that directory if it was there before the upgrade. | 08:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not if you need to reflash | 08:30 |
| cehteh | Pavel: i flashed pr1.1.1 earlier today | 08:30 |
| cehteh | ah halt .. thats mmc .. forget | 08:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooh | 08:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | so it's quite possible, yes | 08:31 |
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| cehteh | just forget about it .. chown user it .. or remove / backup it or whatever | 08:31 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders... | 08:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer | no ~root/.gnupg | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | grrr, I need MOAAR SPACE on rootfs. I want my findutils and dunno what else | 08:34 |
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| mollyringwald | hey guys, anyone here know how to get vnc online with ssh? having a coupla problems | 08:35 |
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| MiXu- | I've done it. What's your problem? | 08:36 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: copy /usr to /home and do a late bind-mount there | 08:37 |
| mollyringwald | reading through the guide on the forums and i'm absolutely sure this is simple as anything but i can't do the last two things. i'll copy/paste the tasks in question: | 08:37 |
| mollyringwald | Copy and rename the public key from the N900 (/home/user/.ssh/id_rsa.pub) to C:\Program Files\freeSSHd\fred on the PC (the same name as you used for the user you created earlier, with no file extension). | 08:37 |
| mollyringwald | On the N900: | 08:37 |
| mollyringwald | Create a configuration file /home/user/.ssh/config (to simplify the connection strings): | 08:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: hehe, exactly what I thought this minute | 08:37 |
| Termana_n810 | DocScrutinizer, use a space spreader. Why would they sell you space spreader if you couldn't spread the space. | 08:38 |
| MiXu- | mollyringwald: So your SSH connection doesn't work? Have you tried it without the public key? | 08:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Termana_n810: nah, I don't like the colors they come | 08:38 |
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| MiXu- | Just plain old ssh to N900. Does that work? | 08:39 |
| Termana_n810 | ... the whole room stopped for a second there at my poor joke | 08:39 |
| raster | hmmm yay for broken egl | 08:41 |
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| raster | who do i get to grumble at about broken egl on maemo? | 08:41 |
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| * raster prepares his pistol | 08:41 | |
| DocScrutinizer | egl? | 08:42 |
| cehteh | E ... | 08:42 |
| Termana_n810 | DocScrutinizer, don't think too hard | 08:43 |
| Termana_n810 | :P | 08:43 |
| raster | do egl. indeed | 08:44 |
| raster | DocScrutinizer: egl indeed | 08:44 |
| raster | gles comes with egl. | 08:44 |
| raster | as opposed to glx | 08:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought all starting with E is yours ;-P | 08:44 |
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| raster | they stole it damnit! | 08:45 |
| t-tan | DocScrutinizer: install findutils-gnu | 08:45 |
| cehteh | uhm .. dont tell me that evince is a 'e' project :P | 08:45 |
| * raster 0wnz E! | 08:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer | t-tan: aha. Why? | 08:45 |
| raster | my letter damnit.. mine! | 08:45 |
| raster | cehteh: it isnt | 08:46 |
| cehteh | puuh | 08:46 |
| t-tan | DocScrutinizer: it takes zero rootfs space | 08:46 |
| cehteh | well i was sure ... :P | 08:46 |
| cehteh | zero? | 08:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | t-tan: how that? | 08:46 |
| cehteh | i dont believe | 08:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | me neither | 08:46 |
| Termana_n810 | raster - All your E are belong to US | 08:47 |
| t-tan | DocScrutinizer: it's optified (approx. zero :) | 08:47 |
| raster | Termana_n810: damned stright! | 08:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | damn, If I need to check each basically non-maemo pkg for whether it's optified or not... | 08:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | t-tan: how comes findutils is optified?? | 08:48 |
| t-tan | DocScrutinizer: findutils-gnu and the other *-gnu packages are built for the device | 08:49 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: since i have ext3 everywhere now i can finally make a full chroot including sdk and whatever i like | 08:49 |
| cehteh | no optify and other crap :) | 08:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd be more than happy with moving /usr and /var to eMMC | 08:50 |
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| cehteh | yeah try it tell me .. i dont want to reflash :) | 08:51 |
| tybollt | cehteh: how do you mount your device via usb? | 08:51 |
| cehteh | tybollt: i dont | 08:51 |
| t-tan | in the Moebian project we're working on a Maemo fork that is bootable from eMMC/SD and has no opt problem | 08:51 |
| tybollt | t-tan: Has Xenu approved of that? | 08:52 |
| Termana_n810 | Moebian? is jebba involved? | 08:52 |
| Stskeeps | Termana_n810: hah, good one | 08:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:52 |
| t-tan | apparently it's not so easy. Mobile + Debian = Moebian | 08:52 |
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| Termana_n810 | :P | 08:52 |
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| cehteh | i mean its reall not that hard to do partitioning right .. i wonder how nokia could failed so hars | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: you bet I'll do later this day | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# du -sx /var /usr | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | 71464 /var | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | 290360 /usr | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | t-tan: will you beat me if i tell you fanoush did clone-to-SD already? :P | 08:53 |
| t-tan | cehteh: partitioning was not the only thing the did wrong... | 08:53 |
| t-tan | Stskeeps: i'll only beat you if you don't give me some link :D | 08:54 |
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| t-tan | for someone who is familiar with the Maemo boot process and internals it should be trivial. I'm not yet | 08:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: another "that's not a bug, that's a feature" I guess | 08:56 |
| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=444600&postcount=45 | 08:56 |
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| Stskeeps | t-tan: you are aware that you're in high risk of going completely mad by digging into it too much? :) | 08:57 |
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| jebba | t-tan: maemo boot is closed in many parts... | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | preinit being closed is a bit of a clusterfuck, yes | 08:58 |
| Termana_n810 | Stskeeps - look who showed up - I told you he was involved! :P | 08:58 |
| jebba | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7019 | 08:58 |
| povbot | Bug 7019: Release source code of "getbootstate" | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | but actually /mnt/initfs/linuxrc was of same license in the paste | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | -e | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | that everyone ignored the license is another thin | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | g | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:58 |
| t-tan | Stskeeps: those are pretty much the same steps I used but it didn't work | 08:59 |
| t-tan | yes, I'm not trying to dig to deep. my therapist will stop me ;-) | 08:59 |
| mollyringwald | does anyone else have any idea about vnc by way of ssh? i feel like the kid who forgot to bring their floaties to their swimming lesson | 08:59 |
| cehteh | either my gps got a fix indoors or suppl.nokia.com is back ... whats more unlikely? | 09:00 |
| MiXu- | mollyringwald: You're not in the vnc-part at all yet. It's just basic SSH'ing and SCP. | 09:00 |
| t-tan | Stskeeps: thanks for the links, anyway. I'll try it again | 09:01 |
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| Pavel | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9331 | 09:04 |
| povbot | Bug 9331: Root-owned /home/user/.gnupg directory in fresh installation obstructs GPG. | 09:04 |
| t-tan | Stskeeps: is there any documentation about the bootprocess except for https://arch.nord.thebc.ch/wiki/index.php/N900_Installing_and_using_Bootchart ? | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | t-tan: we used to have some for diablo but fremantle is fairly new land | 09:12 |
| Stskeeps | it basically goes preinit -> upstart | 09:12 |
| Stskeeps | and then read event.d from there | 09:12 |
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| mollyringwald | okay, simpler question: how do i copy a file from /home/user/.ssh to my pc? | 09:14 |
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| Stskeeps | scp? | 09:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:15 |
| mollyringwald | oh, i should have prefaced that by saying that i don't know anything about anything! | 09:16 |
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| jebba | mollyringwald: email the file then :) | 09:17 |
| t-tan | Stskeeps: thx. during boot I see that preinit tries mkdir -p mnt/initfs on the ro rootfs and fails. is that normal or do i have to create mnt/initfs myself | 09:17 |
| t-tan | mollyringwald: how do you know? :) | 09:17 |
| Stskeeps | t-tan: you should create mnt/initfs yourself | 09:17 |
| mollyringwald | t-tan: instinct | 09:18 |
| t-tan | Stskeeps: that could explain a lot. thx. | 09:19 |
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| Stskeeps | t-tan: maemo demands 'rw' rootfs fwiw | 09:19 |
| tybollt | uh why would you not have RW rootfs on a device like the 900? | 09:20 |
| t-tan | Stskeeps: I know. I remount rw manually in rcS. I wonder where and when Maemo on NAND does it? | 09:20 |
| Stskeeps | tybollt: it doesn't, ubifs is mounted rw initially | 09:20 |
| Stskeeps | at least on n900 | 09:20 |
| Stskeeps | er, t-tan | 09:20 |
| t-tan | during boot / is ro initially on normal Linux | 09:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: you should be able to use scp, if you have a password for root on N900. installing ssh packet includes a password setting iirc | 09:21 |
| Stskeeps | yes, but this isn't normal windows | 09:21 |
| Stskeeps | er, linux | 09:21 |
| Stskeeps | and hence why therapy is a needed luxury when dealing with maemo :) | 09:21 |
| tybollt | linux isn't normal, mind ;P | 09:21 |
| t-tan | Maemo is totally abnormal | 09:21 |
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| mollyringwald | docscrutinizer it probably helps that i have no idea what scp is :P | 09:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | you have a linux system on your PC? | 09:22 |
| mollyringwald | no, windows xp | 09:22 |
| t-tan | an eccentric Linux distro for normal people... | 09:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | get putty | 09:23 |
| mece | gah! | 09:23 |
| mece | yah putty works | 09:23 |
| mece | also.. ps on N900. It's tripped to the bone? | 09:23 |
| mece | stripped even | 09:23 |
| jebba | mollyringwald: just plug your device into your computer via USB and you can access the files on it. | 09:23 |
| jebba | or email it, like i mentioned above | 09:24 |
| mollyringwald | jebba i know that but the folder in question isn't displayed in file manager or windows explorer | 09:24 |
| mollyringwald | alright, got putty open | 09:24 |
| mece | mollyringvald, you could just copy the file to MyDocs first. Then plug it in. | 09:24 |
| jebba | well, it's gotta be *somewhere* in the file manager, if its somewhere on the device i would think (but havent used gui filemanager on maemo much) | 09:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: with putty you should be able to use scp-alike command to copy files to root@n900 | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | winscp as well | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: or from N900 | 09:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no idea abot windoof, Stskeeps ;-P | 09:26 |
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| mollyringwald | where do i enter this command? | 09:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | wasn't so keen to suggest cygwin | 09:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | putty comes with an icon to click afaik | 09:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: winscp you probably need cmd for | 09:28 |
| jebba | I'm not sure how you plan to help mollyringwald scp a file they can't find in the file manager, but have fun, | 09:28 |
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| mollyringwald | oh i've got the program open, it has a configuration window i just have no idea what to do with said window | 09:28 |
| cehteh | just close it, cant be important :P | 09:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, I can't help any further. No windows here | 09:29 |
| mollyringwald | man, i can't believe locating a file is so difficult | 09:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | let's try this: | 09:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | on n900 in a terminal, enter 'root' | 09:31 |
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| mollyringwald | done | 09:32 |
| ZogG | is here any maemo.org developers - the search on site is terrible | 09:32 |
| Pavel | ZogG: Last I looked, it was downright broken. | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: sorry, enter 'exit' | 09:32 |
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| mollyringwald | okay | 09:33 |
| ZogG | Pavel it's working over site but not whole one | 09:33 |
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| ZogG | i can't search thru brainstorm | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: enter 'cp /home/user/.ssh/id_rsa.pub /home/user/MyDocs/.documents' | 09:33 |
| Pavel | ZogG: Oh. Well, in that case, it used to be even worse. ;) | 09:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: enter 'cp /home/user/.ssh/id_rsa.pub /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/' | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | better | 09:34 |
| cehteh | no sshfs for windows? :) | 09:34 |
| t-tan | Stskeeps: boot output looks better now. but it hangs at progression dots | 09:34 |
| cehteh | no repository.mamemo.org for me :/ still | 09:34 |
| mollyringwald | there it is! | 09:34 |
| mollyringwald | thank you :) | 09:35 |
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| ZogG | what you say about it - first of all i'm terrible at discribing problems and english is not my native language as you see - can you understand this - http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/multilayot-language_support/ | 09:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: now hook n900 to pc via usb cable, and select mass storage from menu on n900 | 09:35 |
| Stskeeps | t-tan: did you fix the mount /home issue? | 09:35 |
| mollyringwald | i can cover the rest :) | 09:35 |
| mollyringwald | i was just having issues with locating the file | 09:35 |
| mollyringwald | i'm not completely useless, i swear! | 09:35 |
| tybollt | ZogG: you're missing an m in yout nickname. :) | 09:36 |
| t-tan | Stskeeps: that was the first thing it did after copying | 09:36 |
| ZogG | tybollt i don't thin so =) | 09:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: fine :-) | 09:36 |
| ZogG | tybollt, but how is an idea itself? | 09:36 |
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| t-tan | Stskeeps: if I hold the power button for reboot, I can see error log for a brief moment. I should take a picture | 09:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: why don't you use jebba's repo? | 09:39 |
| cehteh | has he a mirror? | 09:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: /topic ;-) | 09:40 |
| cehteh | ah | 09:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~hail jebba | 09:41 |
| * infobot bows down to jebba and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" | 09:41 | |
| cehteh | maybe i should mirror it too .. i guess it wont be that big, few GB at worst | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~jebba++ | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: check legal issues first | 09:43 |
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| cehteh | its only 'free' so ? | 09:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not sure. Best ask jebba | 09:44 |
| cehteh | will do | 09:44 |
| cehteh | maybe we can even setup some round-robin dns | 09:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeeew, sophisticated shit | 09:45 |
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| mollyringwald | when i run "ssh keflex.ath.cx" in x terminal it tells me connection refused, any idea what i might have done wrong? | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd need to keep the repos in sync *all* time | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | ssh user@keflex.ath.cx | 09:47 |
| t-tan | please setup more mirrors, reprepro config is here http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Tanner#Setting_up_a_repository_mirror | 09:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | but actually I guess you got wrong URL | 09:48 |
| mollyringwald | it's the dns i made with dyndns | 09:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | dyndns? so I assume you're behind a router/NAT | 09:49 |
| mollyringwald | yep | 09:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe - fun | 09:49 |
| mollyringwald | not really! | 09:49 |
| mollyringwald | :( | 09:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | you need to open up a port forwarding in your NAT | 09:50 |
| mollyringwald | i did, for port 522 | 09:50 |
| mollyringwald | which is what i've set up in the config file | 09:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 09:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | your external port probably is different? | 09:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | or is it 522 as well? | 09:50 |
| mollyringwald | how would i check? | 09:51 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: since he provides rsync that shoulldnt be a problem | 09:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | mompl | 09:51 |
| lucent | can N900 wifi be used as a WPA encrypted hotspot? | 09:51 |
| lucent | not ad-hoc | 09:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: your external port 522 is unresponsive | 09:52 |
| cehteh | t-tan: i am speaking about mirror on a internet server, not on the device | 09:52 |
| mollyringwald | hrm, that sucks. how do i fix it up? | 09:52 |
| t-tan | cehteh: me too | 09:52 |
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| cehteh | ah only that headline .. the wiki is a bit confusing | 09:53 |
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| cehteh | Err http://espejo.freemoe.org fremantle Release.gpg | 09:54 |
| cehteh | The HTTP server sent an invalid reply header [IP: 65.254.57.11 80] | 09:54 |
| cehteh | grr | 09:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: that's hard to tell. check your router/nat setup | 09:54 |
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| mollyringwald | pfportchecker says 522 is open, not sure if that counts for anything | 09:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you need to map <external-port> -> <IP-of-your-PC>:<internal-port-on-your-PC> | 09:55 |
| mollyringwald | ah, you've lost me! | 09:55 |
| cehteh | yay .. rootfs 100% | 09:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: you got an internal IP (or name) of your PC. | 09:56 |
| mollyringwald | as in does my pc have a static ip? if so, yeah it does | 09:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: on your router/NAT you need a port forward from external port (522?) to that specific machine (by name or IP), to the particular port of ssh (usually 22 if you haven't changed it in your PC's ssh config) | 09:58 |
| mollyringwald | changed it to 522 | 09:58 |
| tybollt | heh joikuspot is ... an interesting app | 09:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | on your PC? | 09:58 |
| mollyringwald | yeah | 09:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ok the probably you want to forward external port-522 to internal-IP:522 | 09:59 |
| mollyringwald | i'm pretty sure i've done that, i followed the instructions on portforwarding | 10:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | usually NAT config GUI offers convenient ways to enter these 3 values | 10:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well then I guess your PC isn't running any ssh service atm | 10:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: the correct incantation would be "ssh -p 522 user@keflex.ath.cx" | 10:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: from any machine *not* on your LAN | 10:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: i.e. somewhere else in global net | 10:03 |
| mollyringwald | trying now, switched to packet data | 10:03 |
| ZogG | is there any way to add search thru brainstorm? | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: if your N900 is on WIFI of that same router, it probably won't work | 10:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: depends on your router | 10:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: you checked a possibly existing firewall of your router? | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | what router is that? | 10:06 |
| mollyringwald | netcomm nb5plus4w | 10:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | erhm. no idea | 10:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | if your router has a firewall, you need to open up that port forward there | 10:07 |
| ZogG | so noone said if my brainstorm proposal is understandable enuf - anyone has a free minute to look thru it? | 10:07 |
| mollyringwald | would turning off firewall solve the problem? | 10:09 |
| tybollt | try it | 10:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: yes | 10:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it's that problem | 10:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: heh!! | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | mollyringwald: you opened up external port 22 | 10:11 |
| mollyringwald | aw man | 10:11 |
| mollyringwald | i'm clever | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, it 'worked'. so just fix that port forward and you're almost there | 10:12 |
| mollyringwald | it doesn't make any sense though, i just took a look at the rule i applied | 10:13 |
| mollyringwald | ProtocolPort StartPort EndPort Map | 10:13 |
| mollyringwald | TCP,UDP522522522 | 10:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yup | 10:13 |
| mollyringwald | so what am i changing? | 10:14 |
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| Jaffa | Can someone do a sanity check in a real browser? microb isn't showing the "Read more" links on http://www.mwkn.net/2010/09/front.html | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks good | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | except the missing spaces | 10:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you don't need UDP, but nevermind | 10:14 |
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| mollyringwald | missing spaces? | 10:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well that 522522522 | 10:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, on external port 22 (standard for ssh) it works. Now you fix that port forward, and you're done. And I'm off now, got to get breakfast | 10:17 |
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| mollyringwald | alright, thanks for all the help :) | 10:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yw | 10:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just left a "greeting" in your logfile ;-) | 10:19 |
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| hrw | morning | 11:22 |
| pupnik | moo | 11:22 |
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| cehteh | sshfs -o nonempty ct@public.pipapo.org:n900 /media/mmc1/DCIM | 11:43 |
| cehteh | .. klick .. http://public.pipapo.org/ | 11:43 |
| cehteh | wohoo :) | 11:43 |
| jacekowski | it will fail when you lose connection | 11:43 |
| cehteh | sure | 11:44 |
| jacekowski | that's why i like gallery2 plugin | 11:44 |
| cehteh | well i can route that through my vpn .. then it will stay alive | 11:44 |
| cehteh | and there is -o reconnect | 11:44 |
| jacekowski | it will time out when you lose your connection | 11:44 |
| cehteh | nope ssh with the right options doesnt time out | 11:45 |
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| jacekowski | everything times out | 11:45 |
| jacekowski | and ssh can do nothing about it | 11:45 |
| jacekowski | ip_conntrack_tcp_timeout_established i /proc/sys/net........ | 11:46 |
| jacekowski | even that will time out without traffic | 11:46 |
| mgedmin | cehteh, what are the right options? | 11:47 |
| mgedmin | I never had much luck with sshfs reconnecting | 11:47 |
| cehteh | mhm ok .. but well ssh has keepalives, i have static ip at home vpn tolerates some connection loss as long buffers dont overrun ... or maybe even then it just blocks | 11:48 |
| cehteh | anyways just made this a funny test | 11:48 |
| mgedmin | all keepalives do is make the ssh connection die sooner when your router craps out for a few seconds ;) | 11:48 |
| mgedmin | for me anyway :( | 11:48 |
| cehteh | mgedmin: depends on your connectivity .. batchmode, keepalive and so | 11:48 |
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| RST38h | moo ab | 11:56 |
| ab | re * | 11:56 |
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| Arif_ | moo | 12:03 |
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| Shapeshifter | does anyone else have problems with the ICQ telepathy plugin? i cant connect for days. though its the same with pidgin on my laptop. did icq change their protocol again... | 12:08 |
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| hrw | I think that years passed since icq was sane protocol | 12:08 |
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| Shapeshifter | i guess this is a good moment to get rid of it | 12:11 |
| mece | Shapeshifter, I've given up on ICQ. Only reason I hung on to it for so long was because they were the first. | 12:11 |
| zash | hrw: OSCAR was sane? or do you mean relative? | 12:12 |
| Shapeshifter | i still have a few contacts who seem to use it exclusively. | 12:12 |
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| Arif_ | people still use iCQ | 12:13 |
| Arif_ | ? | 12:13 |
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| Shapeshifter | they dont know any better | 12:13 |
| zash | make them switch to XMPP | 12:13 |
| * Arif_ throws MSN at zash | 12:14 | |
| * zash hits MSN back att Arif_ with spectrum | 12:15 | |
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| * Arif_ sellsit | 12:15 | |
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| edheldil | zash: actually here in CZ is ICQ so popular it's used almost exclusively | 12:17 |
| * Arif_ sends some new technology to murrica | 12:17 | |
| mece | gah..! why the frak does not this config file recognize SDL_mixer? | 12:19 |
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| * mece tries without sound, since the autoconf doesn't recognize SDL_mixer as installed. | 12:26 | |
| Milo- | aww, no telnet client for n900 | 12:27 |
| benbrown | no netcat? | 12:27 |
| Milo- | netcat? | 12:28 |
| mece | Milo-, apt-get telnet | 12:28 |
| benbrown | netcat is like telnet but awesome | 12:28 |
| Milo- | mece tried but no sugar | 12:28 |
| mece | Milo-, works for me. | 12:28 |
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| mece | probly in devel or something. | 12:29 |
| Milo- | ah | 12:29 |
| Milo- | I don't use devel | 12:29 |
| Milo- | benbrown no netcat, socat can be found though | 12:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | Milo-: I swear I seen a telnet client in HAM this morning | 12:30 |
| cehteh | me too .. and server | 12:30 |
| Milo- | ham? | 12:30 |
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| mece | is there a particular reason why gnet-2.0 package is not in the repos? | 12:34 |
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| mece | oh well.. seems to build fine at least. | 12:36 |
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| auenf | hmm, whats available for the n810 so i can capture data from a serial port from the attached usb device? | 12:40 |
| auenf | and also to work out what port the usb device has installed | 12:40 |
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| cehteh | RST38h: do you know if the window title is customizeable in xchat | 12:52 |
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| lcuk | auenf, urg, not sure. lbt may know, because afaik he was testing some sort of microcontrolled plugged into usb | 12:54 |
| lcuk | ages ago | 12:55 |
| auenf | hmm, a_wait_bcon | 12:55 |
| auenf | even when its connected and powering this device | 12:55 |
| auenf | does that mean it hasnt detected a device? | 12:55 |
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| lucent | auenf: does N810 have host USB ? | 12:57 |
| aboyer | ab: ping | 12:58 |
| auenf | of course n810 has host usb | 12:58 |
| lucent | I really like the http://www.pfranc.com/usb/usb.shtml which I own | 12:58 |
| lucent | it sounds silly that I would go to trouble of buying a special USB and serial converter like that... but I did. It works very well. | 12:59 |
| lucent | I can't say if it works better than another type... most of the USB-serial converters work without trouble in my experience | 13:00 |
| auenf | im trying to determin if this reader will work as straight usb | 13:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: sure. You just need to recompile after that | 13:05 |
| cehteh | haha | 13:06 |
| cehteh | its a bit redundant and i cant see the channel name | 13:07 |
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| cehteh | maybe i make it configureable if it isnt already | 13:07 |
| lucent | while I'm here, any of you familiar with Qt in Maemo? I have trouble with the keepassx port, the text fields are too small for the height of the fonts | 13:08 |
| lucent | is that possible to work-around with a theme rc ? | 13:09 |
| lucent | the text fields inside keepassx are N-height but they should be N*2-height | 13:09 |
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| lovelyboy | if I want to use OpenCV in my project for maemo, where should I install the library? there is only the instruction for intalling opencv in linux, but i got no idea about how to use it in scratchbox | 13:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | scratchbox should be transparent | 13:32 |
| timeless_mbp | you would install it the same way you'd normally install it | 13:32 |
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| timeless_mbp | minus issues about optification | 13:33 |
| mece | ping pupnik | 13:35 |
| mece | cd .. | 13:36 |
| mece | oops | 13:36 |
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| lovelyboy | so I could intall the opencv package under any direction in linux? and I could use it through pkg-config in scrathbox? | 13:44 |
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| benbrown | if it has a .pc file yeah | 13:45 |
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| aboyer | lucent: you can ask in #qt-maemo | 13:47 |
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| benbrown | tho if it's not available on the device itself you'll need to build the library too | 13:47 |
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| aboyer | is there a way to extract the raw data buffers (GstBuffer) from a video stream when using gdigicam? | 13:56 |
| tybollt | timeless: Hi, Can you please check under the table cloth in the canteen? I think 1.2 is lost, we need to find it. | 13:56 |
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| tybollt | ping timeless | 13:57 |
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| mece | tybollt, you just missed him | 14:07 |
| mece | ping, pupnik | 14:08 |
| TomaszD | Stskeeps, sold my n810 for 530 PLN, am still surprised I got that much | 14:14 |
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| mango- | has anyone used QDBusConnection for catching incoming sms messages? | 14:22 |
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| jebba | lovelyboy: i dont see that opencv has been built for maemo | 14:32 |
| jacekowski | that could be good thing | 14:33 |
| jacekowski | use it to focus on faces while making photos | 14:33 |
| pupnik | hi mece | 14:33 |
| jacekowski | tonikitoo: 530PLN is like a nothing | 14:33 |
| tonikitoo | ? :) | 14:34 |
| lovelyboy | jebba: But I found something like this: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/opencv/ | 14:34 |
| hrw | TomaszD: nice price | 14:34 |
| mece | pupnik, I was wondering how you threw the Glib::Error i saw you mention in a irc log. | 14:34 |
| mece | I did this: std::auto_ptr<Glib::Error> ex; balbhabl(asdf, asdf, ex) | 14:34 |
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| mece | pupnik, eg. solved. | 14:34 |
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| mece | some version is different from what this source wants, so I need to run through the whole thing and add std::auto_ptr<Glib::Error> ex; to everything. Bleh! | 14:35 |
| pupnik | bleh | 14:36 |
| * mgedmin remembers only one thing about std::auto_ptr -- a strong suggestion to never use it | 14:36 | |
| mece | mgedmin, but when it' | 14:37 |
| mece | s required | 14:37 |
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| pupnik | i must have done the old "delete what i dont need or understand" mece | 14:38 |
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| raster | woot | 14:44 |
| raster | 3 bugs already filed on opengl-es on n900.. and counting | 14:44 |
| raster | MUHAHAHAHA | 14:44 |
| pronto | congrats? | 14:44 |
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| jacekowski | does anybody have sylpheed claws screenshot on n900? | 14:49 |
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| mece | daaaaamns.. Why oh why is there no consistency here? or am I missing something. apparently Gtk::Dialog::<whatever> requires a std::auto_ptr<Glib::Error> at the end, which it apparently doesn't need on whatever this is normally compiled. | 14:51 |
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| raster | yay c++! | 14:51 |
| mece | exactly. | 14:51 |
| * raster hides | 14:51 | |
| mece | lol | 14:51 |
| raster | c ftw. | 14:51 |
| raster | seriously | 14:52 |
| raster | gtkmm is not going to help u | 14:52 |
| raster | just get in the way | 14:52 |
| raster | use the c api for gtk | 14:52 |
| jacekowski | use qt | 14:52 |
| jacekowski | don't touch that gtk crap | 14:52 |
| mece | dude, I'm not writing a program. I'm compiling | 14:52 |
| raster | ewwwww | 14:52 |
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| * raster makes signs of warding | 14:52 | |
| * SpeedEvil wonders if a newer schematic will leak. | 14:52 | |
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| tybollt | oh lovely | 14:54 |
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| tybollt | let's have us a religious war over c vs c++ | 14:54 |
| * raster grumbles about scratchbox and ending up having a different machine per sb sdk he has installed | 14:54 | |
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| raster | tybollt: AWESOME! | 14:54 |
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| tybollt | hell I'll throw in cobol and lisp and we'll make it a day? | 14:54 |
| * raster brings out the morning star and popcorn | 14:54 | |
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| tybollt | raster: :D | 14:54 |
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| raster | tybollt: nah. c and c++ can happily entertain me for hours | 14:54 |
| raster | :) | 14:54 |
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| jaska | i wonder if there are Xlib bindings for cobol | 14:55 |
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| w00t | jaska: .. dude, i'm trying to *eat* | 14:55 |
| w00t | :P | 14:55 |
| mece | hehehe | 14:55 |
| jaska | sorry | 14:55 |
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| jaska | or perhaps motif/cobol | 14:56 |
| mece | shiiit! | 14:56 |
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| mece | ok.. now I'm getting annoyed. | 14:56 |
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| RST38h | kill someone! | 14:56 |
| RST38h | quick. | 14:56 |
| mece | hmm.. naah. | 14:56 |
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| tybollt | mece: Wasn | 14:56 |
| tybollt | mece: Wasn't me, I swear | 14:56 |
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| RST38h | konttori: moo | 14:57 |
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| RST38h | Gentlemen (and ladies) could you look at bug #9192 and comment or vote | 14:59 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9192 Media Player applet stops working after a while | 14:59 |
| RST38h | ('cause I am damn tired of having to restart media player applet every few hours) | 15:00 |
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| mece | so apparently Glibmm in maemo5 does not have property_pixbuf() | 15:01 |
| hrw | iirc it is duplicate | 15:01 |
| * mece sighs | 15:01 | |
| tybollt | RST38h: 1.2, hmmm? | 15:01 |
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| RST38h | tybollt: bugzilla still says unconfirmed | 15:02 |
| pillar_ | RST38h: voted | 15:03 |
| hrw | bug #9199 someone? | 15:03 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9199 Message list shows incorrect entries | 15:03 |
| tybollt | RST38h: :-& | 15:04 |
| hrw | or bug #8989 | 15:04 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8989 number -> name decoding for sms should only be decoded from phone number fields of contacts | 15:04 |
| RST38h | pillar: thanks | 15:04 |
| pillar_ | RST38h: np, it's an annoying bug | 15:05 |
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| ivan4th | BTW, concerning Lisps: I think I'll finally publish clisp-2.48+ fremantle .debs today. Fixed FFI+shared libraries issue | 15:07 |
| pupnik | ++ ivan4th | 15:08 |
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| ivan4th | libffcall for fremantle will stay as a fork for some time I think though. The maintainers seem to be somewhat afraid of my maemo-related patches there (gcc-related trickery etc.) | 15:09 |
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| qgilN900 | please have a look at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=550967 | 15:21 |
| flux | soo, is there a program to trigger any action when I plug in/take off a cable to/from the line out? | 15:21 |
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| flux | headphone daemon apparently does some part of that, but I'd like to play-on-insert and stop-on-removal | 15:23 |
| Stskeeps | qgilN900: FUD's a good term for it, or community psychosis :) | 15:23 |
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| qgilN900 | by FUD I mean the original meaning of the acronym, yes | 15:24 |
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| raster | qgilN900: you should get the biz nokians to say whats uyp with meego and n900 | 15:26 |
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| raster | as such until u do - rumors will fly and be rife - and you cant do much about it | 15:26 |
| qgilN900 | need to go, let's discuss | 15:26 |
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| arachnist | a clear message saying "yes, there will be meego/harmattan for the n900" would shut up most, if not all, of the naysayers | 15:27 |
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| satmd | even a 'we intend to try to make it available to n900' would help the situation | 15:28 |
| jebba | well, meego should be pretty open, so it should be runnable on the n900 | 15:28 |
| jebba | except the battery ;) | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | satmd: and if they don't do it, shareholders can sue their pants off | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:29 |
| jebba | In fact, it will probably run on there before a released device ;) | 15:29 |
| arachnist | jebba: why the battery exception? | 15:29 |
| ShadowJK | huh, did someone make text bigger on tmo minimalist? *sigh* | 15:29 |
| jebba | arachnist: because that is closed source, so can't port it to meego (for instance. There's a few more) | 15:29 |
| hrw | I think that for nokia the cheapest option is to do not say anything so community will get angry and work on adding n900 to be unofficially supported | 15:29 |
| jebba | heh | 15:29 |
| ShadowJK | oh, atleast minimalist dark is almost as small as the normal | 15:30 |
| satmd | Stskeeps: I doubt that, given the vagueness of this statement ... "we try, but don't complain if we don't succeed" | 15:31 |
| * ShadowJK wonders how come "minimalist" is gigantic | 15:31 | |
| tybollt | duh | 15:32 |
| tybollt | this is linux shadow... | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | hrw: don't forget leaking schematics to mae it easier. | 15:32 |
| hrw | SpeedEvil: to tell the truth I do not care about schematics availability | 15:33 |
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| hrw | SpeedEvil: I have schematics for 770, n800, n810, few developer boards which I have but never made use of them | 15:34 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah - it's - largely - unimportant. | 15:34 |
| SpeedEvil | at least once you've got a running kernel and drivers | 15:34 |
| SpeedEvil | It\'s only when you want to add features that are missing that it can be handy | 15:35 |
| arachnist | if it wasn't for schematics availability, i wouldn't have both of the GbE ports on my other arm toy available | 15:35 |
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| hrw | arachnist: which one? | 15:44 |
| arachnist | hrw: openrd-client. | 15:45 |
| arachnist | hrw: one of the early kernel patches had a bad address under which the phy for the second GbE was supposed to be available, but thanks to schematics the correct number could be figured out | 15:46 |
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| hrw | ah | 15:52 |
| hrw | openrd-client is nice | 15:52 |
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| arachnist | well, i use it as a router, so having both of the network interfaces working is rather important for me | 15:54 |
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| pupnik | how do i grab an already cached zoutube file? this re-download is lame | 15:58 |
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| * MohammadAG thinks it's stupid to have a leap 'year' problem on the 1st of March | 15:59 | |
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| auenf | its a 'lack of a leap year' problem right? | 16:00 |
| auenf | my watch kept telling me it was the 29th all day | 16:00 |
| auenf | stupid analog thing | 16:00 |
| auenf | if i didnt change it, it would have said tomorrow was the 30th | 16:00 |
| MohammadAG | auenf, at least your watch works ;) http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/28/playstation-network-down-so-are-lots-of-ps3s/ | 16:00 |
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| Corsac | hhmh, how can anything think we're a leap year :) | 16:02 |
| auenf | its an even year ;) | 16:02 |
| auenf | and it ends in a 0 | 16:02 |
| auenf | and the first two digits of the year is divisible by 4 | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | Corsac, all fat PS3s stopped working on the 28th-1st of March | 16:02 |
| tybollt | MohammadAG: fix was to ... ? | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | look at your PS3 till it's fixed | 16:03 |
| nid0 | isnt one yet | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | pulled the ethernet cable before I switched mine on, and it seems to be working fine, what worries me is that I'm curious so I might plug it any second | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | tybollt, date was reset to 31/12/1999, and trophies went corrupt | 16:04 |
| tybollt | MohammadAG: :S | 16:04 |
| tybollt | MohammadAG: zune ol over again | 16:04 |
| tybollt | ? | 16:04 |
| viukkis | and we all remember what playstations were like in 1999 | 16:04 |
| MohammadAG | yep lol | 16:04 |
| MohammadAG | the 2008 problem | 16:05 |
| MohammadAG | but you have to sign in to get it, I'm not affected (yet) | 16:05 |
| tybollt | how incredibly ... ugh | 16:05 |
| Corsac | auenf: “even” year isn't exactly enough :) | 16:05 |
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| jacekowski | 14:50 <marienz> you've give me no indication you're going to contribute positively on the channel | 16:07 |
| jacekowski | not that | 16:07 |
| jacekowski | 14:51 <jacekowski> and you're right | 16:07 |
| jacekowski | http://niebezpiecznik.pl/PoC/Firefox_3.6/poc.html | 16:07 |
| jacekowski | anybody can try if that crashes microB? | 16:07 |
| MiXu- | Crashes firefox at least :D | 16:08 |
| MiXu- | Thanks! | 16:08 |
| Corsac | doesn't crash midori :) | 16:08 |
| marienz | no crash in firefox 3.6 here | 16:08 |
| tybollt | OTOH everythign else crashes midori | 16:09 |
| MiXu- | I have FF 3.6 and it crashed | 16:09 |
| marienz | jacekowski: thanks for mentioning up front that it tries to crash the browser this time around | 16:09 |
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| jacekowski | marienz: you are everywhere | 16:10 |
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| arachnist | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqef_8U4ce4 <| lol | 16:10 |
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| * GAN900 yawns | 16:12 | |
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| benbrown | FF 3.6 on debian here, no crash | 16:14 |
| MohammadAG | crashed on FF 3.6 - Windows | 16:15 |
| hrw | jacekowski: "XML Parsing Error:" on Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.2pre) Gecko/20100228 Namoroka/3.6.2pre | 16:15 |
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| benbrown | MicroB crashes after a few seconds | 16:18 |
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| MohammadAG | I noticed that if microB is started up and a site is opened, it doesn't start loading it directly | 16:19 |
| Djkrikke | Hi guys, when Im on wlan and I get out of range, maemo doesnt automatically switch to gprs. is this normal? | 16:20 |
| MohammadAG | mine switches automatically, check your settings | 16:20 |
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| benbrown | Has anyone had that 'usb port falling out' issue? Is it just pre-production models? | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | Menu > Settings > Internet Connection > set it to connect automatically to any access point | 16:21 |
| MohammadAG | benbrown, mostly, yes | 16:21 |
| Djkrikke | sorry I wasnt detailed enough. I mean it doesnt switch for mail and exchange. mail doesnt initiate a connection | 16:22 |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, you're never going to be free. :P | 16:23 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, usuk | 16:23 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: sorry? | 16:23 |
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| GAN900 | crashanddie, hi. :) | 16:23 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: I didn't have the twitter credentials, wasn't anything I could've done | 16:24 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: be happy the bloody issue came online | 16:24 |
| crashanddie | plus you were offline, so any editing from that point would've been moot too | 16:24 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, yes, yes, thank you, seb. :P | 16:24 |
| crashanddie | oh fuck off | 16:24 |
| Djkrikke | mohammadAG: does mail initiate a connection on your device? | 16:25 |
| MohammadAG | Modest? Yeah | 16:26 |
| hrw | modest... I hope it will die | 16:26 |
| Djkrikke | is it push or fetch mail? | 16:26 |
| hrw | fetch only - idle support is disabled in maemo | 16:27 |
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| MohammadAG | It's push here | 16:27 |
| Djkrikke | hrw, what do you mean with idle support? | 16:27 |
| MohammadAG | (Nokia Messaging) | 16:27 |
| hrw | Djkrikke: IMAP IDLE | 16:28 |
| Djkrikke | so if you are disconnected, nokia messaging brings back the connection? | 16:28 |
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| MohammadAG | Djkrikke, yes, it does get annoying sometimes | 16:29 |
| hrw | maemo17^Wmeego2031 will finally merge modest with nokia messaging to give people only one email component | 16:29 |
| tybollt | Djkrikke: yes - that's why crackberries + iphones are sold w/ dataplans | 16:29 |
| derf | hrw: Which still doesn't work? | 16:30 |
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| hrw | derf: did I said something about working component? | 16:30 |
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| derf | hrw: Just so long as we're clear. | 16:30 |
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| MohammadAG | battery went flat in less than 2 hours today | 16:32 |
| MohammadAG | I like bricks, I'm ordering an extended battery | 16:33 |
| lcuk | X-Fade ping | 16:33 |
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| Cascade- | MsnBot [Freezer] [MassAdder] [And More] Add 'bot@hackersrus.info' to your contact list for FREE access! | 16:44 |
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| tank-man | :) | 16:45 |
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| GAN900 | MohammadAG, what the hell were you doing? | 16:47 |
| GAN900 | Playing Flash games over 3G while watching Finding Nemo? | 16:47 |
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| pupnik | i wish we could lower flash cpu consumption | 16:50 |
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| vanadismobile | pupnik, how about using html5? | 16:51 |
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| vanadismobile | flash is the dark side of the force | 16:52 |
| pupnik | i got friends streaming their stuff on ustream | 16:52 |
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| pupnik | actually managing at 65 pct cpu atm | 16:53 |
| pupnik | but i gotta keep the charger in or it chews battery | 16:53 |
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| pupnik | anybody know some server software that will remux ustream to a reasonable format? | 16:54 |
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| ptl | DocScrutinizer: when you used dbus-monitor to try and find the message that plays the ring sound, did you use the system dbus or the session dbus? I just noticed that pyCallblocker.py uses the system bus, but I monitored the session bus and it also sends a message to org.freedesktop.Telepathy.Client.CallUI with an object /org/freedesktop/Telepathy/Connection/ring/tel/ring/incoming<number> that has some data, like the number of the phone calling | 17:00 |
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| hrw | ptl: apt-get install mdbus2 - easier tool to use then dbus-monitor/dbus-send | 17:04 |
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| jo-erlend | can someone help me add the correct repository to get qtify from "the user/multimedia section"? | 17:06 |
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| jo-erlend | http://maemo.org/packages/view/qtify/ <--- | 17:06 |
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| matthew- | Anyone got problems with the phone speaker in n900? | 17:07 |
| matthew- | going dead quiet? | 17:07 |
| matthew- | etc... ? | 17:08 |
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| Arif_ | matthew-, yes. it sucks :P | 17:17 |
| matthew- | :/ | 17:17 |
| matthew- | so it's not just my phone? | 17:17 |
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| Arif_ | wait | 17:17 |
| Arif_ | do you mean the loudpseakers | 17:18 |
| matthew- | no no | 17:18 |
| Arif_ | or the one on the screen | 17:18 |
| matthew- | the one on the screen | 17:18 |
| Arif_ | oh | 17:18 |
| Arif_ | nope works fine ;P | 17:18 |
| matthew- | ah ok | 17:18 |
| matthew- | shit then ;d | 17:18 |
| matthew- | its only me lol | 17:18 |
| Arif_ | the speakers on the other hand... | 17:18 |
| Arif_ | =P | 17:18 |
| matthew- | the speaker works brilliant for me lol | 17:19 |
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| Arif_ | you must have a different phone then :P | 17:19 |
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| nid0 | matthew- - there have been reports on tmo about the phone speaker going dead quiet | 17:21 |
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| nid0 | it's apparently a hardware problem with a crappy dodgy connection between the audio chip and speaker, apparently a nokia care centre should be able to sort it for you in pretty short order | 17:21 |
| matthew- | nid0: you mean the 'phone' little speaker? | 17:21 |
| nid0 | yes | 17:21 |
| matthew- | mhm | 17:22 |
| matthew- | ive got my phone insured, so | 17:22 |
| matthew- | thinking of jsut dropping it on the flor and ordering new one | 17:22 |
| matthew- | ;-) | 17:22 |
| nid0 | well its a warranty fix, its apparently just that the connector's a bit weak and sometimes breaks away | 17:22 |
| nid0 | = you end up with a speaker that goes really quiet now and then | 17:22 |
| SpeedEvil | The GPS antenna, FM antenna, earpiece, and some other bits are connected by spring connectors | 17:22 |
| matthew- | nid0: ah ok | 17:22 |
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| iPeter- | Is there spotify app for N900 - Maemo 5? Does it work on free account? | 17:33 |
| xt | none works with free account | 17:33 |
| iPeter- | :<, Okay thanks for information. | 17:34 |
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| mtd | what's the maemo 5 deb package that provides the version number in "About Product", again? | 17:34 |
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| MohammadAG | tybollt, do you have a PS3? | 17:36 |
| thomasvs | is there a way to verify that all files in the package database are actually on disk ? | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | mtd, osso-product-info? | 17:37 |
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| jo-erlend | is this where that damn spam comes from onjoin? | 17:37 |
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| mtd | MohammadAG: IIRC it has "mr0" in the name, but that's all I can recall :( | 17:38 |
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| * mtd 's about product shows 2009.44-1 but apt and HAM claim there are no updates. | 17:39 | |
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| MohammadAG | mtd, mp-fremantle-generic-pr? | 17:41 |
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| mtd | MohammadAG: ahh sounds familiar! thanks | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG | anyone got an E: Handler Silently Failed when they try to install any ovi app from terminal? | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG | np | 17:42 |
| Arif_ | hmmm | 17:43 |
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| * Arif_ throws PR1.2 in the middle of the channel | 17:44 | |
| hrw | ;D | 17:44 |
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| * luke-jr takes out his katana and slices PR1.2 in 503.1 pieces | 17:44 | |
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| mtd | MohammadAG: mp-fremantle-generic-pr seems not to exist, but mp-fremantle-203-pr does. | 17:45 |
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| * mtd wonders if my sources.list.d is broken | 17:45 | |
| MohammadAG | mtd, depends on which variant you have installed | 17:45 |
| * Arif_ gets 503.1 phones and installs each piece on a phone | 17:45 | |
| lovelyboy_ | still dont know how to use opencv in scratchbox | 17:45 |
| MohammadAG | I have the gobal firmware, that seems to be the UK one (-203) | 17:45 |
| lovelyboy_ | i could install opencv package in linux, and pkg-config could find opencv in the list | 17:46 |
| RST38h | WHAT? PR1.2 is out? | 17:46 |
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| zaheerm | RST38h, ? | 17:46 |
| lovelyboy_ | but in scratchbox, pkg-config cant find opencv | 17:47 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, who? what? where? why? :p | 17:47 |
| Arif_ | RST38h, no | 17:47 |
| Arif_ | but I can make you one if you like | 17:47 |
| lovelyboy_ | anything i need to do? | 17:47 |
| Arif_ | it'll run Windows phone 7 | 17:47 |
| MohammadAG | Arif_, can you change the architecture to x86 while you're at it? :p | 17:47 |
| mtd | MohammadAG: ah, ok...makes sense for me. | 17:47 |
| Arif_ | I'll try :P | 17:47 |
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| MohammadAG | if you want beta testers I'm here Arif_ :p | 17:48 |
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| ptl | is there a good augmented reality app for the N900? | 17:48 |
| Arif_ | :D | 17:48 |
| Arif_ | ptl, the N900 isn't real | 17:48 |
| Arif_ | :o | 17:48 |
| nid0 | there's a nifty demonstration one in the works | 17:48 |
| nid0 | doesnt actually do anything functional that I can see tho | 17:48 |
| ptl | I've seen this nifty demonstration | 17:49 |
| ptl | but I want an app to impress my friends :P | 17:49 |
| pupnik | gpodder repeatedly marks my played podcasts as unplayed | 17:49 |
| Arif_ | I want the faster bluetooth technology on the N900 | 17:50 |
| Arif_ | :P | 17:50 |
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| nid0 | I want a powermat battery :( | 17:50 |
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| * Arif_ offers nid0 a mugen battery :P | 17:51 | |
| nid0 | ugh | 17:51 |
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| Arif_ | for only $150+shipping! | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | <Arif_> I want the faster bluetooth technology on the N900 | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | x86 should make it faster :P | 17:52 |
| Arif_ | =P | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | cause x86 is higher than A8 | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | xD | 17:52 |
| bderenorcaine | hi there. i am having a small problem with my n900 and was wondering if there was someone here who could help me | 17:52 |
| bderenorcaine | i need to install libsdl-haa | 17:52 |
| bderenorcaine | but i cant find it | 17:52 |
| Arif_ | apt-get libsdl-haa? | 17:53 |
| bderenorcaine | i already added all extras repositories | 17:53 |
| bderenorcaine | nope | 17:53 |
| bderenorcaine | doesnt work | 17:53 |
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| Arif_ | google a deb and install that? | 17:53 |
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| bderenorcaine | google search for "libsdl-haa" yielded exactly one result and that was an irc log where someone said its in the "extras" repository | 17:54 |
| bderenorcaine | but as i have already said, i already added all three | 17:54 |
| Arif_ | I still haven't gotten qtirrecco to work | 17:55 |
| Arif_ | if there's only one result | 17:55 |
| Arif_ | maybe its called something else | 17:55 |
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| bderenorcaine | if i remove the quotes around libsdl-haa oder google libsdl and haa separately, i only get references to either libsdl or haa, but never on the same page. i have no idea how else it could be called | 17:58 |
| bderenorcaine | but i have a deb that depends on this | 17:58 |
| bderenorcaine | libsdl-haa1.2- | 17:58 |
| Arif_ | that's odd | 17:58 |
| nid0 | qtirecco doesnt work properly for me either :< | 17:58 |
| Arif_ | stop using debs that depend on unfindable dependancies :P | 17:58 |
| bderenorcaine | great, thanks | 17:59 |
| nid0 | found I had to manually cp one of it's config files elsewhere and even then most remote profiles just seem to do nothing :\ | 17:59 |
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| Arif_ | maybe that's why it's in devel | 18:00 |
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| AndrewFBlack_ | funny n900 browser wont access files on localhost if your running a webserver on n900 but not connected to a network | 18:04 |
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| vanadismobile | what about the other browsers? | 18:05 |
| aquatix | Andrewfblack: does it have a 'localhost' loopback then? | 18:06 |
| aquatix | and if you try 127.0.0.1? | 18:06 |
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| AndrewFBlack_ | 127.0.0.1 works | 18:07 |
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| aquatix | you can try adding 'localhost' to the hosts file | 18:08 |
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| LinuxCode | stupid onjoin bots | 18:09 |
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| * lcuk drops a bucket of mouldy herrings on LinuxCode | 18:10 | |
| * LinuxCode dies in smelly fish junk | 18:10 | |
| pupnik | i believe our cpumem applet does not show battery drain by phone radio | 18:12 |
| * Arif_ needs a new phone | 18:12 | |
| pupnik | just raked a couple hours, took one photo and shared it to flickr and ran about 2.5 hours of podcasts... battery down to 20 ,ct again | 18:13 |
| pupnik | pct | 18:13 |
| pupnik | from an indicated 95 pct | 18:14 |
| * w00t headdesks | 18:14 | |
| w00t | I just spent an hour wondering why my n900 isn't notifying me about email anymore | 18:14 |
| Arif_ | you're not connected to the internet? | 18:14 |
| w00t | then I remembered that I changed most of my filters to not dump stuff in my inbox, to avoid cluttering it and driving me crazy | 18:14 |
| w00t | (mailing lists etc.) | 18:14 |
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| Arif_ | that'll work too | 18:14 |
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| Arif_ | pupnik, I unplugged my phone yesterday | 18:15 |
| Arif_ | set an alarm | 18:15 |
| Arif_ | listened to 3 hours of internet radio | 18:15 |
| Arif_ | and it's down 2 blocks | 18:15 |
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| pupnik | what program do you play stream with arif | 18:16 |
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| aquatix | w00t: :) | 18:17 |
| Arif_ | KMPlayer | 18:17 |
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| Arif_ | media player sucks at radio | 18:17 |
| w00t | aquatix: you have no idea how happy yet frustrated that made me :P | 18:18 |
| Arif_ | it goes to different channels every few minutes :P | 18:18 |
| aquatix | ghehe | 18:18 |
| luke-jr | Arif_: which KMPlayer? the mplayer wrapper, or the illegal Windows media player | 18:18 |
| Arif_ | the one from extras :P | 18:19 |
| luke-jr | oh, #maemo | 18:19 |
| luke-jr | nm | 18:19 |
| Arif_ | oh great | 18:20 |
| Arif_ | I can't wait for new firmware now | 18:20 |
| Arif_ | apparently my search bug is fixed | 18:20 |
| * Arif_ goes to Nokia HQ with a torch and fork | 18:21 | |
| Jaffa | Af'noon | 18:21 |
| zash | Arif_: do you want to borrow my pitchfork? | 18:21 |
| Arif_ | yes | 18:22 |
| * Hydroxide prefers pitchspoons | 18:22 | |
| Arif_ | I'll get you a €25 Ovi Store voucher on the way | 18:22 |
| Arif_ | :p | 18:22 |
| aquatix | pitchknifes ftw | 18:22 |
| Arif_ | you can use them as soon as Ovi gets any apps to buy | 18:22 |
| Arif_ | :D | 18:22 |
| * zash goes digging in some hay | 18:22 | |
| * lcuk believes developers work better when not threatened with pitchsporks | 18:23 | |
| * javispedro notes that deadlines alone are already enough threating for most developers, no need for pitchsporks | 18:23 | |
| *** jo-erlend has joined #maemo | 18:24 | |
| * Arif_ pokes lcuk with the pitchrollingpin | 18:24 | |
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| Arif_ | write a fat app for n900 | 18:24 |
| Arif_ | nao! | 18:24 |
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| lcuk | i prefer slim apps tyvm | 18:24 |
| aquatix | hmmm, sporks | 18:24 |
| aquatix | anyway, gone home | 18:25 |
| aquatix | hf | 18:25 |
| Arif_ | Ovi store should have 100000 burp apps :( | 18:25 |
| mgedmin | deadlines make this nice whooshing sound when they fly by... | 18:25 |
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| zash | Arif_: over 9000 isn't enouch? | 18:25 |
| aquatix | mgedmin: i love that sound | 18:25 |
| mgedmin | you and Douglas Adams | 18:25 |
| Arif_ | zash, no | 18:26 |
| aquatix | mgedmin: i love Douglas Adams | 18:26 |
| Arif_ | apple doesn't think so at least :D | 18:26 |
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| nid0 | tbh ovi just needs one, angry birds level pack :< | 18:27 |
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| * Arif_ sells nid0 the level pack for €2,98 | 18:30 | |
| nid0 | please do :< | 18:30 |
| matthew- | And still no firmware updte for UK users of n900 | 18:31 |
| matthew- | rotfl | 18:31 |
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| matthew- | that's stupid | 18:31 |
| nid0 | ditch uk firmware, reflash global | 18:31 |
| matthew- | yeah will have to | 18:31 |
| matthew- | thou will have to backup atc.. | 18:31 |
| matthew- | :> | 18:31 |
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| ShadowJK | did you call nokia care and ask where the fw update is? :) | 18:32 |
| Arif_ | Why's the UK so special it has its own firmware? | 18:33 |
| Arif_ | :P | 18:33 |
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| nid0 | s/special/unlucky | 18:33 |
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| zaheerm | we have a different keyboard ;) | 18:33 |
| * ShadowJK threw out the idea on tmo that uk users could organize and have a call-nokia-care-and-ask-for-update day | 18:34 | |
| nid0 | ShadowJK, nokia care's response is it didnt come because of a "technical problem" | 18:34 |
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| nid0 | funnily enough seems to be the same technical problem thats caused nokia to delay uk variant firmware updates on practically all of their phones for the past several years by timespans ranging from hours to forever | 18:34 |
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| Arif_ | maybe they couldn't figure out how to get the ovi maps car icon to drive on the left side of the road | 18:34 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 18:34 |
| javispedro | does ovi maps have a car icon? | 18:35 |
| Arif_ | the s60 one does | 18:35 |
| Arif_ | haven't tried ovi on N900 | 18:35 |
| ShadowJK | it might be im route settings | 18:35 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 18:35 |
| javispedro | I'm not sure the n900 ovi maps has maps. | 18:35 |
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| nid0 | afaik driving on the left-right is built into the map not the software? :p | 18:36 |
| javispedro | ah ok, I should leave ovi maps ranting for the pros. | 18:36 |
| Arif_ | there's not much to rant | 18:36 |
| ShadowJK | the idea behind calling nokia care is to provide feedback so that nokia eventually wakes up and stops considering the variants system a good thing | 18:36 |
| Arif_ | since there's not much to use in the first place :P | 18:36 |
| javispedro | touché :) | 18:36 |
| tripzero | so hmmm. no maemo calculator? | 18:37 |
| nid0 | ShadowJK, nokia have been getting blasted by their uk users for years over not releasing uk updates promptly/ever | 18:37 |
| Arif_ | the media player is another story | 18:37 |
| Arif_ | :D | 18:37 |
| ShadowJK | nid0: probably just on forums and blogs, which aren't read by the right people :D | 18:37 |
| nid0 | still no uk release of v22.007 for e72's | 18:37 |
| lcuk | javispedro, ordered gles book and done some more investigations :) | 18:37 |
| nid0 | worldwide variant was released on 12th of january. | 18:37 |
| javispedro | lcuk: good | 18:38 |
| javispedro | can't wait to see what you'll do with gles :) | 18:38 |
| * lcuk nods | 18:38 | |
| Arif_ | yay for product code changing \o/ | 18:38 |
| javispedro | btw, can't you flash the international image in uk phones? just curious | 18:39 |
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| nid0 | at least the n900 is a step in the right direction in that a product code doesnt need changing. | 18:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | javispedro: yes, most can. | 18:39 |
| javispedro | "most"? | 18:39 |
| * SpeedEvil can't as he's taking part in a trial. | 18:39 | |
| javispedro | ah. | 18:39 |
| SpeedEvil | (well, a survey) | 18:39 |
| javispedro | political impediments | 18:39 |
| Arif_ | I'm running Win7 64 | 18:39 |
| Arif_ | I can't use the flasher | 18:39 |
| Arif_ | :D | 18:39 |
| nid0 | use xp mode, or a virtual machine | 18:39 |
| Arif_ | I dont' have a UK phone | 18:39 |
| Arif_ | SpeedEvil is sending all his data to Nokia! | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | yup. | 18:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Though it's anonamised supposedly. | 18:40 |
| MiXu- | Does flasher work in a virtual machine? I kinda doubt it. | 18:40 |
| javispedro | behold http://www.browserchoice.eu ! | 18:40 |
| nid0 | it works fine. | 18:40 |
| javispedro | Maemo needs one of those, it's shipping microb! | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I've yet to dig through and find if they are properly salting phonenumbers before sending themthough | 18:41 |
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| MiXu- | At least it didn't work in VMWare way back when I tried it | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | md5sum phonenumbers = fail | 18:41 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, is it anonymized if you're the only one | 18:41 |
| nid0 | it worked fine for me in both xp mode and virtualbox installs of ubuntu and xp | 18:41 |
| ShadowJK | :> | 18:41 |
| Arif_ | I've never heard of half those browsers | 18:41 |
| MiXu- | Ok, good to know. | 18:41 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: it does not send clear phonenumbers, but encrypts or hashes. I haven't investigatedwhich. | 18:42 |
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| * javispedro demands a wizard for building build=x86_64 host=arm-gnueabi target=i386 binutils debian packages | 18:45 | |
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| ShadowJK | Hm, so minimalist dark is "16 Arial", and minimalist light is "xx-large Arial" | 18:46 |
| ShadowJK | I'm sure they were the same size before | 18:46 |
| ShadowJK | grrr | 18:46 |
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| Arif_ | moo | 19:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | oom! | 19:10 |
| Arif_ | :O | 19:10 |
| * timeless_mbp is always on the lookout for oom! | 19:10 | |
| Arif_ | omo? | 19:10 |
| lbt | my wife is mean | 19:11 |
| Corsac | out of memory :) | 19:11 |
| Arif_ | she took your N900? | 19:11 |
| lbt | apparently if I have time to rewrite my expenses spreadsheet using SQL then I've got time to clean the cooker... :( | 19:11 |
| Arif_ | does she know what sql is | 19:11 |
| v13 | she's got a point :) | 19:11 |
| lbt | oh yes | 19:11 |
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| lbt | I know.... annoying isn't it | 19:12 |
| Arif_ | does she know how much you spend :P | 19:12 |
| lbt | she runs the finances... | 19:12 |
| Arif_ | then why are YOU making a spreadsheet | 19:12 |
| lbt | I get an allowance | 19:12 |
| Arif_ | go do something useful | 19:12 |
| lbt | it's more fun than cleaning the cooker | 19:12 |
| Arif_ | like cleaning the cooker | 19:13 |
| lbt | duh! | 19:13 |
| Arif_ | :D | 19:13 |
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| Arif_ | you get allowance from your wife? | 19:13 |
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| lbt | if I'm good | 19:13 |
| Arif_ | how long did it take you to gather money for the N900 | 19:13 |
| Arif_ | :D | 19:13 |
| lbt | summit freebie :) | 19:14 |
| Arif_ | freebie? | 19:14 |
| * Arif_ likes that word | 19:14 | |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: transporation? | 19:14 |
| timeless_mbp | s/transporation/transportation/ | 19:14 |
| infobot | timeless_mbp meant: lbt: transportation? | 19:14 |
| lbt | heh .... don't mention that to her :) | 19:14 |
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| Arif_ | I live like 10km from where that summit | 19:15 |
| Arif_ | :/ | 19:15 |
| lbt | shoulda come... | 19:15 |
| lbt | next time eh? | 19:15 |
| Arif_ | I wouldn't get af ree phone :P | 19:16 |
| lbt | we're starting to plan for sept 2010 | 19:16 |
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| TomaszD | lbt, any locations in particular? | 19:16 |
| lbt | TomaszD: up for suggestions atm | 19:16 |
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| Arif_ | Istanbul? | 19:16 |
| javispedro | tmo seems to like Canada. | 19:16 |
| lcuk | lbt, mrs lbt is very shrewd, you should complain that you cannot risk your poor hands by doing that sort of work. (then duck/run as appropriate) | 19:17 |
| lbt | good point mate... I'll try that | 19:17 |
| * pupnik notes "photos" doesnt do .gif anims | 19:17 | |
| lcuk | its been nice knowing you! | 19:17 |
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| Arif_ | I'd give you some advice too but I'm not married yet :P | 19:18 |
| lbt | ouch | 19:18 |
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| Arif_ | you should just buy a new oven! | 19:19 |
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| lcuk | apt-get uninstall oven-grime | 19:20 |
| nid0 | apt-get autoclean | 19:20 |
| nid0 | more appropriate, surely | 19:20 |
| Arif_ | you need to update 40 dependancies | 19:20 |
| TomaszD | Canada... this means an 8 hour flight at least, I barely handled 3hrs to Barcelona | 19:20 |
| Arif_ | and downgrade 60 | 19:20 |
| Arif_ | and you're missing 12 | 19:20 |
| Arif_ | have fun finding them manually :D | 19:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | TomaszD: go by ship. | 19:24 |
| GAN900 | TomaszD, 3 hours? :P | 19:24 |
| * GAN900 was in the air for at least 20 all told. | 19:24 | |
| SpeedEvil | lbt: self-cleaningoven. | 19:24 |
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| TomaszD | :) | 19:25 |
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| Shapeshifter | -.- http://stuff.moritzg.ch/DSC09984.JPG | 19:25 |
| GAN900 | Canada sounds good to me. | 19:26 |
| Shapeshifter | keyboard bezel is coming off. Will return it as soon as the shop has a replacement in stock. Doesn't seem to be a common problem | 19:26 |
| zaheerm | GAN900, where did you fly from? | 19:26 |
| GAN900 | We've had two in Europe, time for another location. | 19:26 |
| GAN900 | zaheerm, Tampa, Florida | 19:26 |
| GAN900 | zaheerm, had to drive 4.5 hours to the airport first, tool | 19:26 |
| zaheerm | GAN900, 20 hours seems a lot when there are direct flights to parts of the USA from barcelona... | 19:26 |
| GAN900 | Friday was tough. | 19:27 |
| GAN900 | zaheerm, sure, New York. :P | 19:27 |
| GAN900 | So 3 or so to JFK then about 7 to BCN | 19:27 |
| Arif_ | I vote for Istanbul | 19:27 |
| Arif_ | :P | 19:27 |
| GAN900 | zaheerm, the US is a big goddamn place. :P | 19:28 |
| zaheerm | yah istanbul is an awesome city | 19:28 |
| zaheerm | GAN900, i know i've been many times | 19:28 |
| zaheerm | the 20 hours was a return trip, then..i was thinking one way 20 hours is a lot of time to be in the air | 19:28 |
| tripzero | did someone say "trip"? | 19:28 |
| ponyofdeath | hi guys, anyone know how i can insert pause into my dial string? , doesnt seem to work | 19:29 |
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| bigbrovar | I guys I woman just got the N900 (I dont know who advised her to) and now she is having issues using the ussd codes with her phone. I am trying to help her by using the ussd-widget but I cant figure out how it works.. any help? | 19:37 |
| wormsxulla | it looks like the n900 is for real men (c) :p | 19:39 |
| Arif_ | add the widget | 19:39 |
| *** West has joined #maemo | 19:39 | |
| Arif_ | and go to the settings | 19:39 |
| Arif_ | enter a number | 19:39 |
| Arif_ | and press it? | 19:39 |
| West | Sorry can I ask you something about the eMMC flashing of a N900? | 19:40 |
| West | I really need your help | 19:40 |
| ShadowJK | what about it? | 19:40 |
| West | I've been up all night trying to find a way to flash this tablet and clear its internal memory | 19:41 |
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| konttori | Jaffa: good post about the extras distribution change | 19:41 |
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| West | and I always get this waiting thing | 19:41 |
| West | and that theres no suitable device | 19:42 |
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| mgedmin | West, that's normal | 19:42 |
| mgedmin | did you try turning the N900 of and then plugging it into USB? | 19:42 |
| mgedmin | s/of/off/ | 19:43 |
| infobot | mgedmin meant: did you try turning the N900 off and then plugging it into USB? | 19:43 |
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| West | yes I did that | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | if you do that while flasher is waiting, everything else should Just Work | 19:43 |
| West | thats the first thing i did to be honest | 19:43 |
| bigbrovar | Arif_: I tried that and it just gave an error msg :( | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | it did for me when I flashed the rootfs and then the eMMC | 19:43 |
| bigbrovar | it just said error | 19:43 |
| Arif_ | tell her to wait for a new fw | 19:43 |
| Arif_ | :D | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | some people also suggest holding down some key | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | I forget which -- 'u' perhaps? | 19:43 |
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| West | maybe this will help... I was trying to clear my micoSD with disk utility | 19:44 |
| ShadowJK | u, yeah | 19:44 |
| West | and I hit the device by accident | 19:44 |
| West | cleared it | 19:44 |
| West | now its just a mass storage formatted in FAT | 19:44 |
| bigbrovar | Arif_: my ussd for checking balance for my carrier is *556# I entered that as value to the Ussd Number field and it didnt seem to work :( | 19:45 |
| bigbrovar | Arif_: i cant seem to find any user friendly documentation on the issue | 19:45 |
| Arif_ | blame the creator :P | 19:45 |
| West | so everytime I plug it in | 19:45 |
| konttori | by the way, pr1.2 also impoves ussd support to some degree | 19:45 |
| Arif_ | improve? | 19:46 |
| Arif_ | there IS no ussd support | 19:46 |
| konttori | well, improves in the sense that it adds partial, but not full support | 19:46 |
| bigbrovar | I blame Nokia for missing out on such a basic functionality in the first place.. the creator of the Ussd was just trying to help out | 19:46 |
| GAN900 | konttori, post? | 19:46 |
| Arif_ | will it say "Not supported" instead of "invalid number"? | 19:46 |
| ShadowJK | West, is the flashing utility running when you plug in USB cable? | 19:46 |
| konttori | lol. It'll be more than that. | 19:47 |
| javispedro | "the creator of the ussd codes was just trying to help out" -- nice quote heh :) | 19:47 |
| West | yes and i hold down u when i plug it in | 19:47 |
| konttori | not that I care myself, as I never use ussd, so, that's why I don't remember the level of 'partial' either | 19:47 |
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| ShadowJK | West, what OS are you running the flashing utility on? | 19:47 |
| ShadowJK | konttori, maybe it's send-only without receive? :P | 19:47 |
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| West | windows vista | 19:48 |
| ShadowJK | 64bit? | 19:48 |
| konttori | oh, get real ;) | 19:48 |
| West | ultimate? | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | West, have you ever flashed anything successfully? | 19:48 |
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| West | yea i flashed with the other .bin file | 19:48 |
| West | i just can't get this eMMC | 19:49 |
| bigbrovar | konttori: well good for you.. lots of people use it.. especially many on pay as you go.. I have learned to live with it.. but its just pisses me when I see a poor average user suffer for the lack of such a basic functionality | 19:49 |
| pupnik | konttori: do you have a spare n900 you could to use some battery rundown tests using mplayer driving the kernel alsa sound device directly? i can give you the command line (bypassing P,A) | 19:49 |
| GAN900 | ~flashing | 19:49 |
| infobot | i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 19:49 |
| konttori | sure, I agree. And I just wanted to voice out that there has been work to that end. | 19:49 |
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| West | if it helps... its stuck on the second circle of when its normally loads up | 19:50 |
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| West | like the loading animation | 19:50 |
| pupnik | it would be most useful if you did it using the same files as the other tests | 19:51 |
| West | it just stays there forever | 19:51 |
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| West | I just don't know what to do | 19:52 |
| West | I just don't know what to do | 19:52 |
| lcuk | west, when i do flashing, i take battery out, plug in the usb cable (direct, no hub), start flasher and when it says "waiting for device" i plug in the battery | 19:52 |
| GAN900 | Follow the instructions on the wiki? | 19:52 |
| West | i'll try that lcuk | 19:53 |
| West | and gan900... seriously... I've been there all night | 19:53 |
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| GAN900 | How about Nokia just makes a freaking announcement about N900 support. . . . | 19:54 |
| konttori | ah, I digged now the details of the USSD support. Fremantle will only support unstructured supplementary services as the 'supported' level. There is a way to enable the rest as well. | 19:54 |
| GAN900 | If you don't want people to complain then don't make them operate in a vacuum. . . . | 19:54 |
| ShadowJK | vacuum sucks | 19:54 |
| javispedro | oh, they made an announcement. they said "no". | 19:55 |
| GAN900 | konttori, which post about Extras? | 19:55 |
| GAN900 | All of the FUD seems to be coming from Nokia. | 19:55 |
| javispedro | then again I'm not sure about he knew what he was talking about (or more appropiately, to WHOM he was talking to, and the large amount of pitchforks they had) | 19:55 |
| GAN900 | They really don't seem to care about poisoning communities, however. | 19:55 |
| konttori | GAN900: what are you talking about? | 19:56 |
| pupnik | javispedro: ever play secret maryo world ? | 19:56 |
| GAN900 | konttori, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=550967#post550967 | 19:56 |
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| javispedro | pupnik: nope, but seen it | 19:57 |
| konttori | humm... so, what's the fud of meego? | 19:57 |
| West | <lcuk>so tried the battery in thing and it still gives me the "no suitable" thing | 19:57 |
| lcuk | bah, are you using a hub | 19:57 |
| West | define hub? | 19:57 |
| West | cuz i don't think so | 19:58 |
| javispedro | West: you said you were able to flash the rootfs/normal fw but not the emmc? | 19:58 |
| West | yea thats it javi | 19:58 |
| ShadowJK | konttori: People are still running around like headless chickens (and haven't stopped panicing to have time to sift through blogs/tmo) after the initial "Maemo.org will be closed!!! Everybody join meego.com quick!" press release ;) | 19:58 |
| konttori | it's pretty simple. considering n900 will have qt4.6 in pr1.2 along with the declarative support, and will get common web runtime support as well as qt mobility in summer(ish) release, it will be meego compliant in the way devices should. | 19:58 |
| javispedro | West: since you only "erased" the MyDocs partition just reflashing the normal fw should work. | 19:58 |
| konttori | what? Who said that maemo.org site will be closed? | 19:58 |
| West | I wish that were true javi... but the phone still just shows up as a random mass storage unit | 19:59 |
| West | no files... nothing | 19:59 |
| West | the device that is | 19:59 |
| javispedro | it does not boot. | 19:59 |
| West | it does | 19:59 |
| ShadowJK | konttori, that's how normal people read the marketing-language in the press release, unfortunately | 19:59 |
| West | its boots, starts up | 20:00 |
| javispedro | West: ah, so you're asking for the default MyDocs files then? | 20:00 |
| konttori | anyway, maemo 5 will be perfectly viable development device for meego stuff. And should be able to run also meego stuff (except multitouch - which I still think is only a gimmick for everything else, but virtual kb) | 20:00 |
| West | i guess so | 20:00 |
| West | true factory reset i guess | 20:00 |
| West | and i want to clear the contacts, calender... everything | 20:00 |
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| javispedro | maybe flasher has some "if (fiasco image matches connected device) { } else { keep on searching device }" logic? | 20:01 |
| ShadowJK | konttori, I wonder if I filed a RFE for t.m.o. to have a shortcut button to post a "don't panic" message in big friendly letters, would reggie implement it? :) | 20:02 |
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| West | not to mention that OVI suite doesn't recognise it | 20:02 |
| West | nor does NSU | 20:02 |
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| javispedro | ShadowJK: tell qgil to end all his posts with that :) | 20:02 |
| lcuk | west try a different usb plug | 20:02 |
| konttori | lol ShadowJK ! | 20:02 |
| GAN900 | konttori, problem is, there are a lot of issues with the base system that are starting to be marked for Harmattan. | 20:02 |
| West | and it doesn't recognise the 32GB as a drive | 20:03 |
| West | these are all the issues i'm having | 20:03 |
| konttori | GAN900: mobility API is there to abstract the differences | 20:03 |
| GAN900 | konttori, so API application compatibility is really not what people are concerned about | 20:03 |
| GAN900 | It's a red herring | 20:03 |
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| konttori | the idea is that for most app developers it abstracts even the difference of developing for S60 or maemo | 20:03 |
| konttori | GAN900: the what? | 20:03 |
| RST38h | moo, javispedro, lcuk, konttori, GAN | 20:03 |
| javispedro | ... but you still have to package it for s60, maemo, (and in the future) meego! | 20:04 |
| lcuk | hey RST38h \o | 20:04 |
| javispedro | moo RST38h | 20:04 |
| GAN900 | konttori, people don't care about API compatibility | 20:04 |
| konttori | javispedro: sure. except if you make a web runtime app. | 20:04 |
| RST38h | GAN: I do. | 20:04 |
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| TomaszD | Finnish friends came by to visit, second day in a row of drinking, wish me luck... | 20:04 |
| lcuk | javispedro, easy way round that, installation direct from git repository :D | 20:04 |
| RST38h | GAN: And yes, out of purely practical reasons | 20:04 |
| microlith | man | 20:04 |
| konttori | GAN900: so, you mean then ABI compatibility? | 20:04 |
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| GAN900 | konttori, they care about having the new features in Harmattan on N900 | 20:04 |
| andrewfblack_ | What about Theme Devs we have to learn a whole new thing everytime UI changes I say programmers have it easy :) | 20:05 |
| * microlith boggles as modest cripples his N900 | 20:05 | |
| konttori | humm... so... that would be the kind of issue I won't touch on a public forum with a ten foot pole. | 20:05 |
| javispedro | no one wants to touch it :) | 20:05 |
| lcuk | Andrewfblack, nahhh if you think its bad modifying your themes, think about the hard dedicated work we put in every single day to find new ways to break them! | 20:05 |
| konttori | I am pretty open about many things, but not when it comes to harmattan | 20:05 |
| andrewfblack_ | lcuk: better not be finding ways to break them :) | 20:06 |
| konttori | I can tell you that it may or may not happen. That's the extend of it. | 20:06 |
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| GAN900 | konttori, so a lot of handwaving about API compatibility really doesn't make anybody feel better about Nokia turning the N900 in another 770. | 20:07 |
| lcuk | Andrewfblack, jesting of course dude | 20:07 |
| javispedro | and tbh tmo easily makes an enormous fuss about it too quickly. | 20:07 |
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| andrewfblack_ | lcuk: I know just messing with you | 20:07 |
| GAN900 | konttori, not asking you to say anything on it. | 20:07 |
| konttori | GAN900: humm... yeah, I won't comment as you guessed. | 20:07 |
| * andrewfblack_ is still looking for more programmers to help with his theme customization program...http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45964 | 20:08 | |
| GAN900 | konttori, just hoping you understand why people are upset and why Qt 4.6 is not really a be-all end-all answer to the FUD. :) | 20:08 |
| West | so i tried all 4 of my USB ports | 20:08 |
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| West | all the same product | 20:08 |
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| GAN900 | Somebody really needs to corner a responsible party and beat a straight answer out of them. | 20:09 |
| West | I even took a screen shot of where i get to | 20:09 |
| GAN900 | The poison the business people continually inject into the community is getting out of hand. | 20:09 |
| konttori | GAN900: I still don't understand. | 20:09 |
| West | please... i've been up all night.. | 20:09 |
| lcuk | West, go on, post screenie | 20:10 |
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| lcuk | you shouldv come and tried before | 20:10 |
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| lcuk | btw, what happens if you powerup and plug usb in - does it start chargingask for the mode "mass storage/pc suite" | 20:10 |
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| West | well I did | 20:10 |
| lcuk | pics tho | 20:11 |
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| GAN900 | konttori, there are a lot of issues in Fremantle and a lot of fixes for them as well as new things in Harmattam | 20:12 |
| GAN900 | *n | 20:12 |
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| konttori | sure. And we are working like mad in improving fremantle as much as possible | 20:13 |
| West | one sec | 20:13 |
| * javispedro has recently filed two b.m.o bugs to backport some trivial tracker fixes from harmattan | 20:13 | |
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| GAN900 | *n | 20:13 |
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| GAN900 | konttori, so when somebody says "Will we get Harmattan on N900?" and somebody answers "Well, we have API compatibility." that's not an answer | 20:14 |
| * lcuk gives javispedro a round of applause | 20:14 | |
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| konttori | GAN900: I didn't hear the question right then the first time | 20:14 |
| * javispedro is happy because two bugs he also not-so-recently filed were fixed in pr1.2 :) | 20:14 | |
| konttori | if I had, I would have answered directly: no comment | 20:14 |
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| konttori | javispedro: that's good to hear. even though, maemo.org bugzilla is still not the one we are actively looking at. We have been having so much internally known issues that we have still focused mostly on those. We plan to switch direction in a weeks time | 20:15 |
| GAN900 | konttori, but that's the answer a lot of Nokia people have been bringing | 20:15 |
| konttori | so, immediately when pr1.2 is solid. (yeah, it still needs work) | 20:15 |
| GAN900 | konttori, so this is addressing Quim's post on tmo. | 20:16 |
| GAN900 | Really, though, I don't care much anymore. | 20:16 |
| iPeter- | Hey, could someone clear to me this: Does there come anymore updates to maemo 5? | 20:16 |
| * RST38h actually thanked Quim's post, but doubts it will make any difference =( | 20:16 | |
| West | sorry for the delay | 20:16 |
| RST38h | iPeter: yes. | 20:17 |
| West | had some trouble with the account | 20:17 |
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| lcuk | which post RST38h | 20:17 |
| West | on maemo.org | 20:17 |
| West | the thread is called N900 Internal Memory Corrupted by Mac. Please Help | 20:17 |
| West | "N900 Internal Memory Corrupted by Mac. Please Help" | 20:17 |
| GAN900 | Nokia doesn't want me as a customer, so I don't see much reason to invest time. | 20:17 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, I didn't. | 20:17 |
| iPeter- | RST38h: So that meego wont mess it up? Do you know is there coming some bigger update soon, since lastest was only 16.2mb | 20:17 |
| lcuk | West, did you know the internet allows these things called hyperlinks | 20:18 |
| lcuk | ! | 20:18 |
| West | .... | 20:18 |
| West | yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeea | 20:18 |
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| RST38h | iPteter: You are asking too much | 20:18 |
| West | I forgot | 20:18 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, he should spend less time trying to reason with TMO and more time explaining to the business people why they're idiot. | 20:18 |
| iPeter- | RST38h: Ofc i'am :D | 20:18 |
| West | >< | 20:18 |
| RST38h | GAN: I am tired explaining to business people why they are idiots =( | 20:18 |
| RST38h | GAN: Does not work. Even a working example of Apple *and* Google supporting their past customers does not fucking work. | 20:19 |
| West | but my lack of knowledge asside | 20:19 |
| West | there it is | 20:19 |
| konttori | javispedro: yeh. We'll definitely merge those patches | 20:19 |
| konttori | javispedro: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=9317%2C9316 | 20:19 |
| West | so please please PLEASe give me a hand | 20:19 |
| West | I can only hide so much rum in my coffee =P | 20:20 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, so Nokia and I go our separate ways and the whole world weeps for what might've been. :rolleyes: | 20:20 |
| javispedro | konttori: ta! :) | 20:20 |
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| konttori | javispedro: but cannot do it for pr1.2 anymore :( | 20:20 |
| West | please help me figure out whats going on with my phone | 20:21 |
| West | N900 Internal Memory Corrupted by Mac. Please Help | 20:21 |
| West | thats where it is | 20:21 |
| * GAN900 loves Ari's neverending streams of non-answers. | 20:21 | |
| West | on the maemo.org site | 20:21 |
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| javispedro | konttori: np, since tracker is oss | 20:23 |
| konttori | GAN900: has he said something new? | 20:23 |
| GAN900 | konttori, the talk link I posted. | 20:24 |
| GAN900 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=550967#post550967 | 20:24 |
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| lcuk | west, give me a link to the thread you seem to be having so much trouble with | 20:24 |
| GAN900 | Er, Ari I was just speaking generally | 20:24 |
| GAN900 | Sorry | 20:24 |
| konttori | javispedro: yeah. would make sense to take the new tracker to fremantle as well. | 20:24 |
| West | N900 Internal Memory Corrupted by Mac. Please Help | 20:24 |
| konttori | it's so much cleaner design. | 20:24 |
| West | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551092#post551092 | 20:24 |
| konttori | we basically tore it apart for the 0.7 branch. I'm really happy how it turned out. | 20:25 |
| konttori | (for the harmattan version) | 20:25 |
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| konttori | GAN900: ah, yeah, indeed, ari isn't commenting on that thread | 20:25 |
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| lcuk | West, the device is identified | 20:26 |
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| lcuk | its just not doing its stuff beyond that | 20:26 |
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| West | identified *stupidest question ever* | 20:27 |
| West | ??? | 20:27 |
| West | i don't understand the context | 20:27 |
| lcuk | "Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101" is in the log you posted | 20:27 |
| lcuk | it then goes on to do further things | 20:27 |
| microlith | It sees the N900, but the "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" message is confusing | 20:27 |
| West | I know but even while i've been talking to you... its still there | 20:28 |
| microlith | hmm | 20:28 |
| lcuk | i know, but this is a different issue than not just finding the device | 20:28 |
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| microlith | does the flasher handle the eMMC via the linux Mass storage export mode? | 20:28 |
| lcuk | how long ago did you flash your main firmware | 20:28 |
| West | last night | 20:28 |
| lcuk | ok | 20:29 |
| lcuk | can you just confirm again that that still happens | 20:29 |
| lcuk | so we can be 100% sure that the usb connection "works" | 20:29 |
| lcuk | and that this problem is something else | 20:29 |
| GAN900 | konttori, wish somebody on the business end would. | 20:29 |
| * pupnik wonders who will first wear out rx-51 kbd | 20:29 | |
| lcuk | you! | 20:29 |
| pupnik | thumbs are cleaner now lcuk - we will see | 20:30 |
| ShadowJK | pupnik, I heard someone had already worn off the symbols | 20:30 |
| West | ok i'll do that and shout when its done | 20:30 |
| lcuk | ok west | 20:30 |
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| ShadowJK | GAN900, maybe someone needs to say "Hey guys you might've guessed but some time ago we formed a new team to sit in the Nokia basement and tinker on a new future operating system, and we decided to go hang out with nerds in Intel's basement and going to work with them to make this new awesome MeeGo thing. The usual Maemo 5 team will of course continue working as before at polishing and making Maemo 5 perfect, and we're also going to make it MeeGo compatibl | 20:33 |
| ShadowJK | e!" | 20:33 |
| RST38h | eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.... | 20:34 |
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| West | it still says my device memory card is still corrupted | 20:35 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: your plain fails to account that: people want the NEW, LATEST thing no matter what. | 20:35 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 20:35 |
| ShadowJK | yeah I guess | 20:35 |
| javispedro | there's only one real solution: not to say a thing. | 20:35 |
| RST38h | javis: not necessarily | 20:35 |
| javispedro | which is something I don't like. | 20:35 |
| lcuk | West, thats not what i asked. did it connect to usb, flash ok, then boot properly to a new cleanly flashed device | 20:35 |
| lcuk | one step at a time | 20:36 |
| West | ok my appologise | 20:36 |
| * frals runs around in panic screaming "gitorious is down" | 20:36 | |
| ShadowJK | javispedro, there's also the repeated feeling of abandonment, people think nokia abandoned all maemo work ;) | 20:36 |
| * RST38h will own a decent pair of headphones for the first time in his life | 20:36 | |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, oh? | 20:36 |
| RST38h | Wondering how it will feel =) | 20:36 |
| ShadowJK | probably "oh... :/" | 20:36 |
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| wiretapped | 'simply saying "Please don't talk about our embarrassing lack of communication" doesn't actually solve the problem' | 20:36 |
| wiretapped | QFT | 20:36 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: as in disappointment? :) | 20:36 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, what headphones? | 20:37 |
| javispedro | same question I wanted to ask :) | 20:37 |
| RST38h | wiretapped: Actually, there is no need for communication here | 20:37 |
| lcuk | RST38h, just think, now you will be able to hear the defects in the mp3 + compressed bt stream + bad singers etc | 20:37 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: BH905 | 20:37 |
| lcuk | sometimes having better is not good :D | 20:37 |
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| ShadowJK | bah | 20:37 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Naah I am tone deaf =) | 20:37 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, problem is, the Maemo 5 team is mostly with the nerds in the basement. | 20:37 |
| wiretapped | RST38h: where? on the issue of the N900's future?! | 20:37 |
| lcuk | lol RST38h i thought i was blind until i saw porn in hd | 20:37 |
| ShadowJK | GAN900, yeah sure, but that makes them the more awesomer | 20:37 |
| lcuk | now i wish i was | 20:38 |
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| RST38h | wirtetapped: All you need to do is create a credible record of supporting existing devices | 20:38 |
| wiretapped | RST38h: right. which they've done the exact opposite of. | 20:38 |
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| RST38h | wiretapped: Once you do that (like Apple or Google did), people will stop wondering whether their gadget world will end the moment a new gadget is introduced | 20:38 |
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| RST38h | Puff! PR problem gone! | 20:38 |
| wiretapped | so, the safe bet is on them not supporting the N900. and if they would just communicate that that is the case, we could all stfu and move on | 20:38 |
| GAN900 | I hate that Nokia decides to put the emergency brakes on all of their current community inertia with each update. | 20:38 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, I haven't heard, but I thought the a2dp SBC encoding disqualified all bluetooth solutions from being "decent" | 20:39 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Porn in HD probably looks uncomfortable | 20:39 |
| javispedro | RST38h: I miss the "but don't actually support existing devices" part. | 20:39 |
| West | its completed with no problems lcuk | 20:39 |
| lcuk | yes as i bet mp3s through bluetooth sound on excellent headphones | 20:39 |
| ShadowJK | and active noise cancelation.. ew :/ | 20:39 |
| lcuk | ok west | 20:39 |
| * Arif_ burps | 20:39 | |
| lcuk | so you are not having usb problems | 20:39 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Dunno, I tried BH504 at the Nokia flagship store, with X6 | 20:39 |
| lcuk | you are having eMMC problems | 20:40 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: They are very decent | 20:40 |
| lcuk | thanks for confirming | 20:40 |
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| * lcuk now moves to next thing | 20:40 | |
| West | thank you for your time btw | 20:40 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: So, I guess things should work reasonably well, at least for MP3s | 20:40 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, admit it, you only want them because marina has them | 20:40 |
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| javispedro | if it's anything near cheap I'll get them. | 20:41 |
| fzfq3m_ | hola | 20:41 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: Also BH905 has optional wires and the noise cancellation is optional too | 20:41 |
| fzfq3m_ | Hi | 20:41 |
| lcuk | ok West now, where did you get the instructions for flashing the emmc and what documentation are you following (use those hyperlink things and be specific please) | 20:41 |
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| Arif_ | use wired headphones? | 20:41 |
| RST38h | javis: Amazon offers them for $200, reasonably cheap | 20:41 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: Who is Marina? =) | 20:41 |
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| javispedro | uuuh. | 20:41 |
| Arif_ | 200 for headphones? | 20:41 |
| Arif_ | lol | 20:41 |
| * Arif_ runs away | 20:41 | |
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| fzfq3m_ | can somebody tell me what pluging should I use to have Facebook integrated with my contacts and conversations?? | 20:41 |
| West | here it is lcuk: | 20:41 |
| RST38h | Arif: List price is [[prepare] $400 | 20:41 |
| West | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware | 20:41 |
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| Arif_ | pff | 20:42 |
| Arif_ | I got my N900 for 400 | 20:42 |
| RST38h | Arif: Street price is $300. | 20:42 |
| * javispedro runs away too. first looks at its current $5 headphones, then keeps running. | 20:42 | |
| ShadowJK | Arif_, yeah certainly they wont be as awesome as Sennheiser's Orpheus headphones at $10,000 :P | 20:42 |
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| iPeter- | Is there any application (plugin) to get desktop icons on same line, like "snap to grid" or something. | 20:42 |
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| RST38h | iPeter: Tweakr | 20:42 |
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| ShadowJK | Arif_: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P6M6HY | 20:43 |
| Arif_ | ShadowJK if you have too much money my bank account is always open for donations | 20:43 |
| Arif_ | :D | 20:43 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: Oh. | 20:44 |
| West | is that ok? | 20:44 |
| Arif_ | http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/soundmagic-pl-50-released-received-reviewed-430612/ | 20:44 |
| ShadowJK | West, I was reading that earlier and noticed the instructions had two lines that said "Insert USB CAble" or similar... thought htat was odd :) | 20:44 |
| Arif_ | I got these :P | 20:44 |
| lcuk | yes west, just confirming all the bits | 20:44 |
| * frals bashes head against the desk | 20:45 | |
| West | once again... thank you for your time lcuk | 20:45 |
| ShadowJK | Arif_, cool, balanced armature | 20:45 |
| frals | got a bug report "hey my message list isnt scrolling" | 20:45 |
| frals | turns out, it does scroll, but appearently not as smooth as the list in addressbook... >-< | 20:45 |
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| javispedro | smoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooth!!! | 20:45 |
| lcuk | west how did you get it into this state in the first place | 20:45 |
| javispedro | THIS. HAS. TO. BE. SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTH!! | 20:45 |
| lcuk | cos people dont normally need to reflash the emmc much | 20:46 |
| Arif_ | ShadowJK, you put them on weird though | 20:46 |
| Arif_ | :( | 20:46 |
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| lcuk | frals, im afraid javispedro is right | 20:46 |
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| Arif_ | oh and I don't know what armature means :blush: | 20:46 |
| ShadowJK | Arif_, well it's not normal speaker tech | 20:47 |
| ShadowJK | Arif_, looks like they're designed to have the wire loop around the ear? | 20:47 |
| frals | lcuk: :( | 20:47 |
| javispedro | lcuk: actually I was in tmo mode :), but hey, we know you're the local smoothness expert :) | 20:47 |
| Arif_ | yeah | 20:47 |
| * Arif_ thinks they sound pretty good | 20:48 | |
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| frals | need to dump python at some point to make it smooooooooooooooooooth ;< | 20:48 |
| RST38h | In-ear headphones suck though | 20:48 |
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| RST38h | frals: There is no better time than RIGHT NOW | 20:48 |
| Arif_ | RST38h, normal ones fall out of my ears all the time | 20:48 |
| lcuk | yo ucan still use python, but emcapusalte the whole thing inside a single function inline optimized asm blob | 20:48 |
| RST38h | frals: And drop python from that app for sending #xxxx* numbers too | 20:48 |
| West | pluged my n900 into my macbook pro. I was using disk utility to try and work out a reading problem I was having with the microSD. Clicked the wrong device. Set the format to FAT (MS-DOS) and formatted the phone memory. Noticing my error... I canceled the format quickly. but the bar was already 1/8th of the way through by the time i clicked it. | 20:49 |
| lcuk | feck | 20:49 |
| RST38h | Arif: I can say the same about in-ears =( | 20:49 |
| frals | lol lcuk | 20:49 |
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| * Jaffa unfoods. | 20:49 | |
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| ShadowJK | Normal ones could be okay for me if I could make them stay in ear, and make them stay pushed against the earcanal so that sound doesn't leak out | 20:49 |
| frals | RST38h: that stuff isnt mine at least ;D | 20:49 |
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| iPeter- | RST38h: Thanks alot of the tip, (: | 20:49 |
| RST38h | frals: Ah, good reason to copy it though =) | 20:49 |
| lcuk | West, that sounds like an intelligent thing to do | 20:50 |
| Arif_ | RST38h, they only fit well with the biggest piece thingies | 20:50 |
| * Arif_ has big ears | 20:50 | |
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| * Arif_ has big everything :P | 20:50 | |
| * javispedro ponders why his amazon's "personalized" front page is full of unlocked n900 | 20:50 | |
| Arif_ | maybe that's why I can't use the N900 keyboard properly :hmmm: | 20:50 |
| lcuk | west in the device itself (unplug everytihng take out memory card) | 20:50 |
| West | unquestionably... and hence i come to the ones that know more then me | 20:50 |
| lcuk | what actually works | 20:50 |
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| West | ok | 20:50 |
| Arif_ | javispedro, there are locked N900s? | 20:51 |
| iPeter- | Is there any way to disable that when you open lens cover, camera app starts? | 20:51 |
| West | done | 20:51 |
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| javispedro | Arif_: dunno, but that does prevent amazon.com from from using the "unlocked" word. | 20:51 |
| Arif_ | :d | 20:51 |
| javispedro | s/does prevent/does not prevent, s/from from/from | 20:51 |
| Arif_ | did you buy one? | 20:51 |
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| javispedro | god no. | 20:52 |
| West | took the memory card out | 20:52 |
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| frals | fuckin hell | 20:53 |
| frals | not too pleased with ubuntu right now | 20:53 |
| frals | plugged in ethernet cable and touchpad stopped working | 20:53 |
| Arif_ | lol | 20:54 |
| javispedro | clearly, a wizard did it. | 20:54 |
| Arif_ | only on Linux! | 20:54 |
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| Wizzup | not quite | 20:54 |
| Wizzup | Happens to me a lot on windows too | 20:54 |
| * ShadowJK blames NotWorkManager | 20:54 | |
| Arif_ | there is such a manager? | 20:55 |
| ShadowJK | NetworkManager | 20:55 |
| ShadowJK | I call it NotworkManager, because that's what it usually does on my computers | 20:55 |
| LinuxCode | ShadowJK, whats wrong with NM ? | 20:55 |
| LinuxCode | works very well in Fedora | 20:56 |
| Arif_ | wind00s ftw | 20:56 |
| ShadowJK | Can you tell me how to make it not overwrite /etc/resolv.conf with crap? Or alternatively, how to make it write the crap I want there? | 20:56 |
| ShadowJK | :P | 20:56 |
| West | lcuk? | 20:57 |
| West | you still there? | 20:57 |
| javispedro | <overkill>use selinux to prevent it from writing the file </overkill> | 20:57 |
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| ShadowJK | <lcuk> what actually works | 20:58 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 20:58 |
| Arif_ | why does windows setup always prompt you to restart with every install | 20:58 |
| Arif_ | :D | 20:58 |
| ShadowJK | although I don't think formatting the vfat partition would have that much of an impact on the entire emmc device from a flashing point of view... but who knows :/ | 20:58 |
| ShadowJK | I mean, /home is still intact even after that, right.. | 20:59 |
| lcuk | west, open file manager | 20:59 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: that's what I'm thinking too. | 20:59 |
| West | yes | 20:59 |
| West | done | 20:59 |
| lcuk | and see whats listed (without your good mmc still plugged in | 20:59 |
| lcuk | longtap on the possibly corrupted item and see if you can format it from there | 20:59 |
| West | "no files/folders | 20:59 |
| West | " | 20:59 |
| West | literally nothing except that | 21:00 |
| lcuk | ok, i cant do anything more from gui :$ | 21:00 |
| lcuk | and i know nothing about how to try reformatting from console | 21:00 |
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| lcuk | you have goosed your mydocs by reformatting it in your mac | 21:01 |
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| lcuk | or partially | 21:01 |
| javispedro | ah | 21:01 |
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| javispedro | so you think it's failing to boot in mmc flash mode because the mydocs partition is weirdly hosed? | 21:01 |
| lcuk | im not sure | 21:01 |
| ShadowJK | I don't know why it would care | 21:01 |
| lcuk | but we confirmed usb "works" | 21:01 |
| lcuk | we confirmed the device is seen | 21:01 |
| lcuk | we know it boots | 21:02 |
| javispedro | ShadowJK: i'm used to stuff like that from palm devices at least. | 21:02 |
| lcuk | the problem does appear to manifest when entering boot mode | 21:02 |
| javispedro | bugs like those were ... awfully common. | 21:02 |
| lcuk | err flash mode | 21:02 |
| javispedro | so | 21:02 |
| javispedro | if you want to flash the MyDocs partition | 21:02 |
| javispedro | something like that | 21:02 |
| javispedro | rootsh mkfatfs /dev/mmcblk0p2 would work | 21:03 |
| ShadowJK | mkfs.vfat ? | 21:03 |
| javispedro | symlink to mkfatfs iirc. | 21:03 |
| * javispedro just shut down the n900 minutes ago and now has to boot it back :( | 21:04 | |
| Arif_ | why would you shut it off | 21:04 |
| ShadowJK | mkdosfs, but executing it as mkfs.vfat tells it to create a vfat file system | 21:04 |
| javispedro | there's no actual difference | 21:05 |
| javispedro | from a formatting app PoV | 21:05 |
| West | ok so theres nothing i can do? | 21:05 |
| frals | so flashing was pretty easy when you used linux instead of win7 x64 | 21:05 |
| * javispedro bangs head | 21:05 | |
| West | so theres nothing at all>? | 21:06 |
| arachnist | everything is easy if you use linux instead of windows | 21:06 |
| arachnist | except for gaming, maybe | 21:06 |
| javispedro | btw the actual partition is /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 21:06 |
| lcuk | actually i like windows so i can see outside without getting cold | 21:06 |
| lcuk | i tried having linux up behind my curtains but it didnt keep the rain out | 21:07 |
| javispedro | lcuk: so should I give the guy cmd line MyDocs partitions formatting instructions? | 21:07 |
| frals | lol lcuk | 21:07 |
| lcuk | well since i wouldnt understand them either i dont think it will do much good | 21:08 |
| lcuk | west | 21:08 |
| lcuk | since you have already formatted iwtht mac | 21:08 |
| lcuk | what happens if you plug it in again | 21:08 |
| lcuk | does it give option to format still? | 21:08 |
| javispedro | oh, it's (relatively) easy. just install rootsh from app mgr, type "rootsh mkfatfs /dev/mmcblk0p1" | 21:09 |
| lcuk | "just" is a big step for some people | 21:09 |
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| ShadowJK | mkdosfs not mkfatfs | 21:11 |
| javispedro | ah, thanks ShadowJK | 21:12 |
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| * ShadowJK 'd use mkfs.vfat anyway | 21:12 | |
| javispedro | vfat vs fat is nearly the same. the only thing that matters here is 16 vs 32. | 21:12 |
| javispedro | but since this is just temporary to get it to reflash (I hope) | 21:13 |
| pupnik | i wonder if we could get more security from a chrooted browser? | 21:14 |
| ShadowJK | lol? | 21:14 |
| shinkamui | pupnik | 21:14 |
| shinkamui | you gem of gems | 21:14 |
| pupnik | sorry if that is funny | 21:15 |
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| West | is there maybe something i can do in xterminal? | 21:18 |
| javispedro | West: for now I suggest you repeat the process in disk utility, | 21:18 |
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| javispedro | and let it finish formatting. | 21:18 |
| West | ok i'll try | 21:18 |
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| javispedro | (then try again to reflash the emmc if you want to get the builtin content) | 21:19 |
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| pupnik | was thing of bsd jails actually, forgot how different linux chroot is | 21:20 |
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| MaikB | Hey guys. I'm running the scratchbox maemo SDK on my x86_64 ArchLinux box and inside a Ubuntu i686 via VirtualBox. I try to use gdbserver with FREMANTLE_ARMEL, but gdbserver tells me ... | 21:23 |
| MaikB | gdbserver :1234 ./a.out | 21:23 |
| MaikB | waitpid: No child processes. | 21:23 |
| MaikB | Exiting | 21:23 |
| MaikB | is this a known issue? | 21:23 |
| ptl | does anyone know where cynaest saves the IMDB files? | 21:23 |
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| javispedro | why would you want to use gdbserver _inside_ scratchbox? | 21:24 |
| MaikB | because gdb says... | 21:24 |
| MaikB | gdb ./a.out ... | 21:25 |
| MaikB | run | 21:25 |
| MaikB | Starting program: /home/maik/a.out | 21:25 |
| MaikB | Don't know how to run. Try "help target". | 21:25 |
| javispedro | don't use the armel target to debug | 21:25 |
| javispedro | either use the x86 target or a real device | 21:25 |
| javispedro | (on a real device you can run gdbserver) | 21:25 |
| MaikB | ok | 21:26 |
| MaikB | I've done this, it works fine, but I wondered if this is a know issue, because google didn't know about this | 21:27 |
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| javispedro | the armel target is emulated | 21:27 |
| lcuk | west did you try formatting from your mac | 21:28 |
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| lcuk | yes there are terminal commands but i dont know them | 21:28 |
| West | its going through right now | 21:28 |
| lcuk | its formatting? | 21:28 |
| West | on a side note... is the vanilla eMMC file an image? | 21:29 |
| lcuk | is it formatting? | 21:29 |
| javispedro | a "FIASCO" image, yes. | 21:29 |
| West | ok one sec | 21:29 |
| West | might have an idea | 21:29 |
| javispedro | but it needs a bit of work to extract the fat filesystem from it (if it's doable) | 21:29 |
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| * lcuk goes nom since west wont answer a question ;) | 21:30 | |
| West | and yes it did | 21:31 |
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| lcuk | west when its finished then does your device come operational again | 21:33 |
| hrw | re | 21:33 |
| West | checking... | 21:34 |
| West | no | 21:34 |
| West | it didn't | 21:34 |
| hrw | someone know why OGG Vorbis is still totally ignored by anything on maemo5? I even have 'extra decoders' 'ogg vorbis support' etc installed but tracker (after reset of its database) does not index ogg music files | 21:34 |
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| javispedro | hrw: try /usr/lib/tracker/tracker-extract -v3 -f your_music_file.ogg | 21:35 |
| javispedro | and see what happens and why it's not using the gst plugin to parse it | 21:35 |
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| hrw | javispedro: log of extract is empty | 21:37 |
| javispedro | hm.. that shouldn't log, but print to stdout. | 21:38 |
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| javispedro | ah sorry | 21:38 |
| javispedro | missed a space between "v" and "3" | 21:38 |
| hrw | javispedro: http://hrw.pastebin.com/JrTP8dSF | 21:40 |
| javispedro | so tracker is doing its job :S | 21:40 |
| javispedro | you even have the vorbis plugin which is not part of the nokia tracker (my guess is that ogg support is packaging it) | 21:41 |
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| hrw | sure, but mediaplayer still does not list file | 21:41 |
| MaikB | hm, are by any chance files in MyDocs not executable? | 21:43 |
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| MaikB | chmod +x seems to have no effect | 21:43 |
| hrw | MaikB: this is vfat... | 21:43 |
| javispedro | MyDocs is both mounted noexec and a VFAT filesystem. | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | No, THIS IS SPARTA! | 21:43 |
| MaikB | ah | 21:43 |
| MaikB | javispedro: thx! | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | (sorry) | 21:43 |
| hrw | javispedro: looks like during night I need to reencode ~1GB of oggs to mpegaudio just to make nokia crap recognize music as music | 21:44 |
| hrw | ~curse nokia so called developers | 21:44 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia so called developers ! | 21:44 |
| RST38h | hrw: Shouldn't have used Ogg in the first place | 21:44 |
| javispedro | hrw: dunno, I already reencoded my library to aac. | 21:44 |
| * RST38h cackles evilly | 21:44 | |
| SpeedEvil | hrw: at least you can do that overnight on the phone :) | 21:44 |
| MaikB | So Nokia has to pay M$ for using FAT, like TomTom and Amazon | 21:44 |
| RST38h | javis: mp3->aac is pretty useless =) | 21:44 |
| MaikB | ;) | 21:45 |
| hrw | RST38h: oggs works fine on my desktop or on my s60 phone | 21:45 |
| hrw | only maemo (os2005/6/8/m5) have problems with it | 21:45 |
| javispedro | s60 with 3rd party player I guess | 21:45 |
| hrw | no | 21:45 |
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| hrw | but it is discharded now so cant confirm for sure | 21:46 |
| MaikB | hm, I use ogg all the time on my n900 via some extra package I installed but can't remember the name of it | 21:46 |
| javispedro | ogg-support | 21:46 |
| MaikB | yes | 21:46 |
| javispedro | (apt name) | 21:46 |
| MaikB | thats it | 21:46 |
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| MaikB | I use apt-(get|cache) most of the time instead of the Prog-Manager | 21:47 |
| MaikB | :P | 21:47 |
| hrw | ogg-support 1.0.6~rc1 installed | 21:47 |
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| MaikB | hrw, dpkg -l *ogg* gives me http://paste.pocoo.org/show/184406/ | 21:49 |
| MaikB | HTH | 21:49 |
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| hrw | MaikB: same | 21:50 |
| javispedro | fwiw, did you restart? | 21:51 |
| MaikB | odd | 21:51 |
| pupnik | is there a linux/gtk paste buffer with a preview and multiline history we could port? | 21:51 |
| hrw | javispedro: I installed ogg-support long time ago | 21:53 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: that could share automagically over 'tinternet. | 21:53 |
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| MaikB | javispedro: Just for the record, the problem I wanted to debug seems on ARMEL scratchbox only. The program runs fine on the device and sbox-X86. So I guess I should only sb-ARMEL only for compiling | 21:55 |
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| pupnik | SpeedEvil: i do not understand. I would sometimes like to repaste a url i pasted hours earlier | 21:56 |
| konttori | pupnik: isn't there already such an toolbar widget? | 21:56 |
| konttori | I have faint recollection of seeing something like that on maemo. | 21:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | pupnik: I mean - it might be nice if you had a shared clip between phone and destop | 21:56 |
| hrw | MaikB: armel sbox do not have working x11 system so console+building only | 21:57 |
| konttori | SpeedEvil: synergy can share cliboard between device and desktop. (and kb and mouse) | 21:57 |
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| RST38h | konttori,pupnik: Such widget exists, for Maemo4 | 21:59 |
| * RST38h has not seen it for Maemo5 | 21:59 | |
| MaikB | hrw, I had another problem. I play with a programming language called falcon ( A dynamic language which allows i.e. UTF8 identifiers for variables and a bunch for programming paradigms). There is so gui involved, but the testing suite just stucks on sbox-ARMEL | 21:59 |
| MaikB | hrw, I wanted to debug this, but the problem went away when running in on the device | 22:00 |
| MaikB | that was the full story, bro :D | 22:00 |
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| RST38h | Elite blogger, with admiring readers: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_m0O2XlVi3Mc/S4waN3nlGII/AAAAAAAACEY/nN4mBFwMEQ0/s1600-h/blogger.jpg | 22:00 |
| hrw | ok, so ogg->mp3 or ogg->aac? | 22:01 |
| hrw | which you suggest? | 22:01 |
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| RST38h | aac if you have space to spare, mp3 otherwise | 22:01 |
| MaikB | hm, does the N900 have an hardware MP3 and ACC decoder? | 22:01 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: no | 22:01 |
| RST38h | or find stuff in the original mp3 | 22:01 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: ithasa DSP, which can do that. | 22:02 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: or much else. | 22:02 |
| hrw | RST38h: I have original CDs | 22:02 |
| hrw | -rwxrw-r-- 1 hrw hrw 1649723 03-01 21:01 01.aac | 22:02 |
| hrw | -rw-r--r-- 1 hrw hrw 2716700 02-02 12:19 01. Waltz in C sharp minor_cis-moll_en ut di?se mineur, Op.64 No.2.ogg | 22:02 |
| MaikB | SpeedEvil: Ah, so accelerated ( thus battery life saving ) for ogg can be implemented? | 22:02 |
| MaikB | is it? | 22:02 |
| lucas | ssh udd | 22:02 |
| lucas | oops | 22:02 |
| hrw | mp3 is a bit smaller | 22:03 |
| SpeedEvil | MaikB: any hw accellerated codec can be implemented. | 22:03 |
| RST38h | hrw: Ok. Then forget the ogg. | 22:03 |
| RST38h | hrw: Go with mp3. | 22:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Findingthe implementor... | 22:03 |
| RST38h | hrw: Only encode into aac if you are planning on destroying the original CDs | 22:04 |
| SpeedEvil | flac | 22:04 |
| konttori | RST38h: ah, that's probably it then. Well, should be pretty easy to port | 22:04 |
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| RST38h | konttori: not sure: the desktop intgration APIs have changed a lot | 22:04 |
| hrw | System plików rozm. użyte dost. %uż. zamont. na | 22:05 |
| hrw | //sheevaplug.local/muza/ | 22:05 |
| hrw | 1,4T 747G 559G 58% /home/hrw/mounts/sheevaplug | 22:05 |
| arachnist | btw, has anyone of you changed hostname of your n900? i did, but i'm not sure if there aren't some unexpected consequences | 22:05 |
| hrw | RST38h: 560GB still free | 22:05 |
| hrw | arachnist: in worst situation it will go into rebootloop | 22:05 |
| MiXu- | Why would you want to change it | 22:05 |
| hrw | konttori: nasty question can I? | 22:05 |
| konttori | sure | 22:05 |
| hrw | my n900 uses n900-42.11 as hostname | 22:06 |
| frals | arachnist: ive changed hostname on mine and it seems to work fine | 22:06 |
| MaikB | dito | 22:06 |
| arachnist | MiXu-: because "N900-whatever" doesn't look so personalized | 22:06 |
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| konttori | hrw: yeah? | 22:06 |
| hrw | konttori: any date for pr1.2? iirc you said 'this week' 2 weeks ago | 22:06 |
| timeless_mbp | hey | 22:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i just picked up an eee701 | 22:06 |
| arachnist | hrw: try unsetting LC_ALL/LANG before pasting things next time. i do understand everything there, but most of people here don't | 22:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm looking for suggestions for os's for it | 22:06 |
| konttori | well, no dates, as a policy. but I can sure tell that it's not this week | 22:06 |
| MiXu- | arachnist: Yeah, but no one but you generally sees it :) | 22:06 |
| RST38h | hrw: hey not before the media player applet is fixed =) | 22:06 |
| timeless_mbp | i'd like to run moblin if possible, but if someone knows of an image for Mer or something, i'm open :) | 22:06 |
| konttori | I would be surprised if we finish it this week | 22:06 |
| arachnist | timeless_mbp: well, it has the same screen resolution as the 700/N800/N810/N900 | 22:07 |
| arachnist | timeless_mbp: not like i'm suggesting anything ;) | 22:07 |
| RST38h | konttori: I am almost inclined to say that the awesome LED Editor app should be merged into Maemo5 LED Settings =) | 22:07 |
| konttori | and it has pretty decent (as mobile devices go) 3d accelerator | 22:07 |
| hrw | arachnist: df output is standard ;) | 22:08 |
| hrw | RST38h: I do not care about it ;) | 22:08 |
| konttori | humm.. led editor? never seen that. | 22:08 |
| * konttori fetches his device | 22:08 | |
| hrw | konttori: led-pattern-editor | 22:08 |
| RST38h | konttori: Install it (from the System group) | 22:08 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: might have a funny Mer^2 image for you to play with - it's basically debian5.0 with fremantle x86 stuffed on top | 22:08 |
| MaikB | Do you guys build .deb's for testing stuff on your device or just copy it over to /home/user/foobar ? | 22:09 |
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| Hukka | Just copy | 22:09 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: hit me | 22:09 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: zipping up and uploading | 22:10 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: bonus points if it's something i can safely add to an existing n900 mmc :) | 22:10 |
| hrw | MaikB: depends | 22:10 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: currently x86 only :P | 22:10 |
| * timeless_mbp doesn't really have lots of random usb volumes available | 22:10 | |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: i don't want to boot my n900 from it | 22:10 |
| * konttori had just flashed a latest and greatest and needs to restore backup (and all applications with it) before continuing. | 22:10 | |
| timeless_mbp | i want to use my n900 as the storage host for the eeepc :) | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: ah | 22:11 |
| ptl | found it, cinaest uses .cache/cinaest for the databases! | 22:11 |
| timeless_mbp | it's probably by far my largest usb stick :) | 22:11 |
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| hrw | A=$PWD;for dir in *;do cd "$dir";for song in *.ogg;do SONG2=`basename "$song" .ogg`.aac; ffmpeg -i "$song" -ab 128k "$SONG2";done;cd "$A";done | 22:13 |
| hrw | simple ;D | 22:14 |
| wolf^ | konttori, 3d accelerator in n900 kinda sucks when accelerating 2d gfx (ortho projection, lots of blending, etc) | 22:14 |
| Arif_ | hmm | 22:14 |
| wolf^ | konttori, I especially liked the remarks about not using "discard" in shaders in the spec ;) | 22:14 |
| Arif_ | will we have to wait for rebuilds for all apps in PR1.2 now? | 22:14 |
| Arif_ | o.o | 22:14 |
| konttori | hmm... ortho projection should not be an issue in speed afaik. | 22:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | hrw: for dir in */ | 22:15 |
| zash | hrw: ${song%.ogg}.aac | 22:15 |
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| konttori | but sure, blending comes with penalty | 22:15 |
| wolf^ | konttori, the speed advantage is due to the tiling engine and rendering only the surface that's on the top (ie. closest to camera) | 22:16 |
| hrw | zash: $song has spaces inside and this way works | 22:16 |
| konttori | exactly | 22:16 |
| hrw | SpeedEvil: there are only dirs there | 22:16 |
| wolf^ | konttori, using blending, or discard, forces everything to be rendered | 22:16 |
| hrw | zash: but thx for hint | 22:16 |
| zash | hrw: "${song%.ogg}.aac" | 22:16 |
| zash | :D | 22:16 |
| konttori | wolf^: well, the whole visible zbuffer | 22:16 |
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| wolf^ | konttori, I don't think so | 22:17 |
| konttori | wolf^: anyway, sgx isn't exactly desktop level accelerator. | 22:17 |
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| wolf^ | konttori, what if you have a solid box with rounded alpha-channel corners | 22:18 |
| wolf^ | konttori, as a one texture | 22:18 |
| wolf^ | konttori, in software I can just memcpy the solid blocks | 22:18 |
| wolf^ | konttori, I don't think that the povervr can do the same and it's doing blending for all of the texture | 22:18 |
| konttori | indeed. | 22:18 |
| wolf^ | effectively rendering something that will be never seen | 22:18 |
| hrw | zash: I am impressed that it works even with busybox sh | 22:19 |
| konttori | yeah, 3d acceleration has it's perks and cons | 22:19 |
| konttori | (for 2d that is) | 22:19 |
| zash | hrw: how much bash specific stuff does it have? | 22:20 |
| wolf^ | konttori, good thing that n900 is excellent when it comes to the software rendering performence with xlib | 22:20 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 22:20 | |
| wolf^ | performance | 22:20 |
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| konttori | yeah. for example qml is usually just as fast software rendered as it is opengl accelerated. | 22:21 |
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| konttori | wolf^: what are you working on? | 22:22 |
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| wolf^ | konttori, I have a simple test, two parallax scroll layers, quite big sprite, and some triangle rasterizer-based sprites | 22:22 |
| wolf^ | konttori, it's 30 fps software and 20 fps hardware | 22:22 |
| wolf^ | konttori, sorry, can't tell | 22:22 |
| wolf^ | konttori, games ;) | 22:22 |
| mgedmin | for years now I've been reading about Cairo optimization and how their hardware-accelerated backend almost reached the speed of the pure software implementation | 22:23 |
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| hrw | konttori: kudos for http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=551416&postcount=48 | 22:23 |
| konttori | hrw: thanks. I really hope I find some time tomorrow to get it started. | 22:24 |
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| konttori | wolf^: hmm.. that should be running faster hw accelerated than what you are describing | 22:26 |
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| Gnome | hello. can you please help me install the Transmission bittorrent client for my N900? | 22:26 |
| MaikB | Does somebody have experience with QPainter performance when used with a QGLWidget? | 22:27 |
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| MaikB | I'm thinking about using this instead of SDL | 22:27 |
| wolf^ | konttori, my software blitter is really optimized :) | 22:27 |
| konttori | ah, but still, the 20 fps sounds odd. Are you running in full screen+ | 22:28 |
| konttori | (and thus non-composited) | 22:28 |
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| qgil | hi, is http://talk.maemo.org working reliably for you? I'm able to load pages only at times | 22:30 |
| konttori | MaikB: you might want to also ask on #qt-maemo | 22:30 |
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| konttori | qgil: yeah, works well | 22:30 |
| Stskeeps | no issues here | 22:30 |
| w00t | evenin' qgil | 22:30 |
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| MaikB | konttori: ah, didn't there is such a thing | 22:30 |
| konttori | qgil: how about doing http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=551416&postcount=48 | 22:30 |
| w00t | evenin' konttori, Stskeeps, others, too :) | 22:31 |
| frals | evening w00t o/ | 22:31 |
| w00t | hey frals! how goes? | 22:31 |
| konttori | we could make a plan for at least the 2 releases already now with the highlights onto the roadmap | 22:31 |
| frals | all good here, you? | 22:31 |
| qgil | weird, I can connect to this chat but then it seems the access point or something is not being reliable at all with browser (my laptop, my N900 and my partner's laptop...) | 22:31 |
| w00t | absolutely fantastic | 22:31 |
| w00t | today is a good day :) | 22:32 |
| qgil | precisely tonight with the N900 FUD thread running... :) | 22:32 |
| * hrw -> out | 22:32 | |
| frals | indeed, just installed my new hd5850 ;D | 22:32 |
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| konttori | there is a fud thread? (or do you mean the one you started?) | 22:32 |
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| w00t | konttori: roadmap is a great idea, and I much appreciate your committing to follow it up | 22:32 |
| hrw | konttori: you forgot? qgil is master of fud | 22:32 |
| hrw | joking of course | 22:33 |
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| qgil | konttori: the one I started and wanted to start addressing tonight | 22:33 |
| MaikB | I just don't get why the people are so worried about their N900 being left behind my MeeGo. Its another Linux distribution,yes, but most of the program should just run fine be recompiling them, | 22:33 |
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| konttori | ah, then I know what you mean. And that link I posted ( http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=551416&postcount=48 ) is related to that | 22:33 |
| MaikB | Or did I miss something important? Will they stop maintaining kernel drivers or something? | 22:33 |
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| qgil | konttori: I could read your post and even thank you, now waiting for the next WWW connection cut | 22:34 |
| qgil | konttori & co, do you think it's worth starting that wiki page even if the 1M$ question won't be answered there? | 22:35 |
| timeless_mbp | qgil: hey | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | webchat.freenode.net | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | works great in the browser, even in portrait mode :) | 22:36 |
| w00t | qgil: your threads attract an impressive amount of attention :) | 22:36 |
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| timeless_mbp | MaikB: to be fair, nokia's record of supporting old products is hardly stellar | 22:36 |
| timeless_mbp | and linux kernel is fairly aggressive about ditching modules which lack live maintainers | 22:37 |
| w00t | qgil: yes, I do - because even if it ends out with "meego isn't available" (something I find unlikely tbh, there's few technical reasons if any that will be the case), it might help allay fears that n900 is abandoned in any form :P | 22:37 |
| konttori | qgil: yeah, I was planning to try to allocate at least an hour tomorrow for it in case I get go ahead (this kind of thing I would want to clear with you and esko and possibly peter) | 22:37 |
| timeless_mbp | (c.f. android for a recent example, or older nokia devices for slightly less recent examples) | 22:37 |
| * timeless_mbp busy waits on Stskeeps | 22:37 | |
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| * frals converts timeless_mbp to a monitor instead | 22:38 | |
| timeless_mbp | frals: well, i'm also polling some other things | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | scrub: scrub in progress, 92.83% done, 0h17m to go | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | errors: 419 data errors, use '-v' for a list | 22:38 |
| timeless_mbp | that's my old hdd | 22:39 |
| MaikB | timeless_mbp: If read the stories about this. I guess Google decided to stick to an particular kernel version and thus have no interest in maintaining it in upstream | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | it's a bit unhappy :( | 22:39 |
| timeless_mbp | MaikB: it hardly matters | 22:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | most vendors as vendors do not have infinite time to work upstream | 22:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | nokia has used a handful of kernel versions <<10 | 22:39 |
| pupnik | hrw is ffmpeg lower cpu use than mplayer -q? | 22:39 |
| MaikB | timeless_mbp: nobody does, but the deal is to take and give | 22:39 |
| * timeless_mbp ponders | 22:40 | |
| MaikB | however, I guess the kernel does well without android contributions | 22:40 |
| timeless_mbp | the classic expression is 'give and take' ... | 22:40 |
| pupnik | I want a directory based superlowbatteryuse media player for toolbar | 22:40 |
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| MaikB | timeless_mbp: The thing that needs love is Xorg. Fortunately Intel invest money and time into it. | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551557#post551557 | 22:41 |
| pupnik | and i think the time is starting wednesday | 22:41 |
| mece | hello | 22:41 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: hrm, how do i feed that to my eeepc? | 22:41 |
| * timeless_mbp downloads | 22:42 | |
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| Stskeeps | uploading a tar.gz too now | 22:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | alright | 22:43 |
| mece | need some help with a c++ problem with gtkmm. | 22:43 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: what's the point? :p | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: N8x0 backport since gentoo has failed to deliver a usable mobile experience ;p | 22:43 |
| mece | anyone have some skills in that area? | 22:44 |
| RST38h | "Note: "More..." application menu will be remove in PR1.2" | 22:44 |
| RST38h | oh yeaaaah | 22:44 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: doesn't sound like a backport at all from that post. and Gentoo's inability to deliver is totally Nokia's fault :P | 22:44 |
| mgedmin | what will happen them? | 22:44 |
| mgedmin | one large scrollable menu? | 22:44 |
| mece | mgedmin, yep | 22:44 |
| RST38h | + folders I guess | 22:44 |
| mece | oo nice. | 22:44 |
| mece | no c++ coders here? | 22:45 |
| mece | damns. | 22:45 |
| RST38h | folder functionality has been there already just not enabled | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: fremantle is armv7 based :/ | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: hence the need to do it like this | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | i really need to recompile things | 22:45 |
| timeless_mbp | RST38h: no folders | 22:45 |
| timeless_mbp | catorize can give you folders | 22:45 |
| timeless_mbp | but the system doesn't really support them | 22:45 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: relevance? | 22:45 |
| timeless_mbp | unless konttori got them to fix the bugs i showed him | 22:45 |
| luke-jr | I mean trying to make Hildon "look like" N900 | 22:46 |
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| Stskeeps | luke-jr: the important part is the WM things | 22:46 |
| luke-jr | *why* :p | 22:46 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders what the latest catorize update did | 22:46 | |
| mece | baah I'm just gonna blurt out my problem and see if anyone bites. | 22:46 |
| RST38h | timeless: http://maemos.ru/2009/12/28/making-folders-icons-n900/ | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: cos there's still a vocal n8x0 community | 22:46 |
| konttori | timeless_mbp: yeah, bugs are known, but not important enough for pr1.2 anymore (sorry all) to justify changes. If the schedule changes, then surely, we can push those in | 22:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | konttori: fine w/ me | 22:47 |
| timeless_mbp | just noting it | 22:47 |
| mece | So I have a gdk::pixmap and I need to add that thing to a Gtk::Image. Problem is that the existing code uses image->property_pixmap() = pixmap_name | 22:47 |
| mece | but that doesn't work in maemo. | 22:47 |
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| timeless_mbp | RST38h: oh, catorize uses folder icons | 22:48 |
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| timeless_mbp | it's not that they aren't possible | 22:48 |
| mece | so the proper way to do it would be to use image->set(pixmap, mask) | 22:48 |
| mece | but where the hell do I get a mask? | 22:48 |
| timeless_mbp | it's that the pr1.2 system will not usefully support folders | 22:48 |
| mece | must I make a new bitmap from scratch to do this? | 22:48 |
| konttori | timeless_mbp: well, that's debateable. Folders work just fine. You just cannot reorganize within (or amongst) folders. | 22:49 |
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| konttori | it's not trivial to fix properly, so I decided that we won't put effot to it. | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | for 1.2 or post? :) | 22:49 |
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| konttori | as the categorization by itself helps the issue a lot | 22:49 |
| * timeless_mbp nods | 22:49 | |
| konttori | well, post we can entertain all sorts of ideas | 22:49 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'm kinda surprised that it'd be so complicated to support though... | 22:50 |
| timeless_mbp | it seems to me that you should have a per directory file and a list of items for the current directory | 22:50 |
| konttori | and if we allow reordering within, then people will start asking for amongst. Then you start wanting to be able to create new. | 22:50 |
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| timeless_mbp | yeah well | 22:50 |
| konttori | and considering that pr1.2 model went away from folders to a flat list, it makes most sense to not to concentrate on the needs of the few (no matter how much we like them). | 22:51 |
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| maromader | hi guys | 22:51 |
| konttori | in any case the reordering makes the flat list very useful. | 22:51 |
| mece | konttori, good point. Besides the community solutions work just fine. | 22:51 |
| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: so, Mer^2 is 'debian', not 'debian 64', right? | 22:51 |
| asj_ | and an app already exist to put everything in folders if you want | 22:51 |
| konttori | I almost never need to scroll the list anymore | 22:51 |
| konttori | but now, night all! | 22:51 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: debian x86 aye | 22:52 |
| * mece waves | 22:52 | |
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| SpeedEvil | A reorderable flat list would actually be nicest for me. | 22:52 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, I guess you're in luck then :) | 22:52 |
| * RST38h actually prefers folders, one level of them | 22:52 | |
| RST38h | current scrollable plane feels like a minefield, too easy to accidentally start an app | 22:52 |
| SpeedEvil | I never find that. | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I have problems sometimes missing apps | 22:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Especially when my fingers are numb, or wearing gloves. | 22:53 |
| pupnik | same SpeedEvil | 22:55 |
| RST38h | use nails, nails work | 22:55 |
| * RST38h had a few awkward moments with x6 yesterday: nails DID NOT work | 22:55 | |
| SpeedEvil | Not so well in gloves. | 22:55 |
| lcuk | RST38h, how is the x6? | 22:56 |
| lcuk | didnt know you had one | 22:56 |
| RST38h | lcuk: a slicker version of 5800, generally not worth the extra money | 22:56 |
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| lcuk | fair enough | 22:56 |
| * lcuk goes hacking | 22:56 | |
| RST38h | lcuk: I played with one at nokia flagship store | 22:57 |
| asj_ | it's capacitive atleast not? | 22:57 |
| RST38h | do not have it | 22:57 |
| lcuk | ahhhhh | 22:57 |
| RST38h | asj: it is, but I do not see how resistive 5800 is worse | 22:57 |
| * lcuk hid in nokia store last week | 22:57 | |
| lcuk | some people dont | 22:57 |
| lcuk | using the side of my finger (as i do on n900) | 22:57 |
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| lcuk | the iphone is same responsiveness | 22:57 |
| asj_ | RST38h: the hope would be the slightest touch would activate it | 22:57 |
| lcuk | the joggler has awful capacitive | 22:58 |
| RST38h | asj: minefield. | 22:58 |
| asj_ | of course symbian isn't multitouch, but I'm torn on multitouch so I don't care | 22:58 |
| mece | Woo! got it. | 22:58 |
| mece | (just define empty bitmap, doh) | 22:59 |
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| mece | lcuk, it's pretty funny how you learn to use the screen. I had some trouble working my friends iphone the other day | 23:02 |
| RST38h | pr.1.1+ seems to have fixed bug #5566 | 23:02 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5566 Video playback controls disappear when paused | 23:02 |
| mece | lcuk, somehow iphone want's a larger area of contact, while n900 wants a small area. | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: .tar.gz instead of .vmdk.zip uploaded | 23:03 |
| maromader | anybody knows how can I see album art in media player when it's in separate files, like 'album/cover.jpg'? I restarted tracker and cleaned it's database, but still there are no covers... | 23:03 |
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| lcuk | mece, for whatever reason the side of my finger is where i have settled | 23:04 |
| lcuk | and its skin enough to be iphone | 23:04 |
| lcuk | and precise enough for normal use | 23:05 |
| lcuk | with n900 | 23:05 |
| mece | lcuk, same for me, but my nail sticks out a little on my right hand index finger, so iphone doesn't work for me that way. | 23:05 |
| lcuk | in liqbase the n900 pwns iphone for scrolling smoothness | 23:05 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: ok, what do i do w/ the .tar.gz? :) | 23:08 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: installation guide has something for booting it on x86 | 23:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: um, ok | 23:13 |
| timeless_mbp | scrub: scrub completed with 419 errors on Mon Mar 1 22:56:46 2010 | 23:13 |
| Shapeshifter | mece: "somehow"? it's a capacitive screen | 23:13 |
| timeless_mbp | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/705578 | 23:14 |
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| timeless_mbp | Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation ? | 23:21 |
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| * timeless_mbp tries http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Making_x86_Mer_Bootable | 23:22 | |
| * timeless_mbp frowns | 23:22 | |
| timeless_mbp | i don't want to convert my n900 into a brick | 23:23 |
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| pronto | yes you do!! | 23:24 |
| pronto | bricks are so fun ^_^ | 23:24 |
| pupnik | i still think the summit giveway of n900s was stupid | 23:24 |
| timeless_mbp | why? | 23:24 |
| pupnik | look how few recipints did anything useful | 23:25 |
| felipec | what's the week nr of PR 1.1.1? | 23:26 |
| timeless_mbp | felipec: it's in bugzilla | 23:26 |
| timeless_mbp | https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=advanced | 23:26 |
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| timeless_mbp | the item above 'future' in 'target' | 23:27 |
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| felipec | ah 02-8 | 23:27 |
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| timeless_mbp | the 8 is not a week number :) | 23:29 |
| felipec | timeless_mbp: nope... how would you call 02-8? | 23:29 |
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| timeless_mbp | a sequence of four characters with no meaning? :) | 23:32 |
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| javispedro | CC = @CC@ \n HOSTCC = @CC@ | 23:33 |
| javispedro | d'oh! | 23:33 |
| timeless_mbp | felipec: without a year and major version and probably a product, you have just that | 23:34 |
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| hardaker | what's the version reported by a 1.1.1 device? | 23:37 |
| timeless_mbp | it should be the whole string | 23:37 |
| hardaker | no, it's usually like 2.2009.51-1.002 | 23:38 |
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| hardaker | which is my current one, but I'm pretty sure it's 1.1 | 23:38 |
| hardaker | and I need to flash it since the OTA failed a while back due to lack of disk space. | 23:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | ok, the whole parenthetical | 23:38 |
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| timeless_mbp | i.e. 3.2010.02-8 | 23:38 |
| hardaker | Ah, thanks. | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | and making me type that is rude | 23:39 |
| hardaker | did it help the battery drain issue? | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | please don't make me do that again. it hurts my hand | 23:39 |
| hardaker | heh. | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | seriously. | 23:39 |
| hardaker | yeah... why the device can't report "1.1.1" is beyond me. | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | because that's not a remotely useful number? | 23:39 |
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| timeless_mbp | 1.1.1 fwiw fixed a *very* limited set of bugs | 23:39 |
| timeless_mbp | the logs for this channel point to the list of fixes | 23:39 |
| hardaker | yep. though I have the desire to fix battery drain issues ;-) | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | if your bug isn't listed there, or doesn't specifically have the ™ i've indicated, then it isn't fixed | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | and you're wasting my time by not doing some homework | 23:40 |
| timeless_mbp | … fixed in that version ... | 23:40 |
| hardaker | Well, then let me stop wasting your time. And you should stop wasting your own time answering questions you don't want to answer! | 23:40 |
| * timeless_mbp goes back to yelling at someone else | 23:41 | |
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| maemo | does anyone know when will the next update be released? | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | no | 23:43 |
| timeless_mbp | it hasn't been determined | 23:43 |
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| timeless_mbp | and even if it were, nokia doesn't announce dates | 23:44 |
| maemo | do you know whether it solves the video calling prob. or not? | 23:44 |
| timeless_mbp | 'the video calling prob.'? | 23:44 |
| maemo | yes | 23:44 |
| timeless_mbp | do you have a bugs.maemo.org url? | 23:44 |
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| timeless_mbp | is 'prob.' 'probably'? | 23:44 |
| djkrikke | is there a max charge after the n900 has been charged once? I charged it with the adapter, used it until it had 88% remaining, and it won't charge again | 23:45 |
| ptl | problem | 23:45 |
| ptl | the video calling problem | 23:45 |
| maemo | prob. = problem | 23:45 |
| ptl | the sentence makes more sense this way | 23:45 |
| timeless_mbp | 'the' implies they're precisely only one such whatever | 23:45 |
| timeless_mbp | if there isn't a bug, then you need to ensure there's a bug | 23:45 |
| timeless_mbp | if there's a bug, then you need to reference it | 23:45 |
| timeless_mbp | if there's a bug, you could even follow its progress! | 23:45 |
| timeless_mbp | and you wouldn't need to ask here.... | 23:45 |
| javispedro | the wrong part here is clearly considering that there's only a SINGLE bug! | 23:46 |
| * javispedro hides | 23:46 | |
| maemo | im asking because i don't know if thhere's a bug | 23:46 |
| maemo | or not | 23:46 |
| timeless_mbp | javispedro: definitely one of the problems | 23:46 |
| timeless_mbp | maemo: bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi | 23:46 |
| timeless_mbp | surely you could take the effort to go look? | 23:46 |
| timeless_mbp | you found irc... | 23:46 |
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| maemo | no bugs about it | 23:49 |
| maemo | howcan i open a bug | 23:49 |
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| * timeless_mbp ponders | 23:50 | |
| timeless_mbp | how precisely did you search for bugs? | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | here's what i did | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | 1. i got a web browser | 23:51 |
| maemo | i followed the link you gave me | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | 2. i used it to load https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | 3. i clicked advanced | 23:51 |
| maemo | wrote video call in the query | 23:51 |
| maemo | i looked at the results | 23:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | 4. i clicked 'maemo official applications' | 23:51 |
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| timeless_mbp | 5. i clicked 'chat & call & sms' | 23:51 |
| maemo | ony two had these words | 23:51 |
| maemo | but not about next update | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | 6. i entered 'video' in the summary field | 23:51 |
| timeless_mbp | 7. i clicked 'search' | 23:52 |
| timeless_mbp | that gave me bug 5218 among others | 23:52 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5218 Voice/video call N900 to N810 doesn't work at all | 23:52 |
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| timeless_mbp | fwiw, following your steps, 5218 is in the list | 23:54 |
| timeless_mbp | (so are 199 others, but it's there) | 23:54 |
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| maemo | i followed what you said | 23:56 |
| maemo | but the resulted bugs doesn't talk about the video call as a defective problem in n90 | 23:57 |
| maemo | but it talks about it as a shrtage between n900 & g. talk, n900 & n810 | 23:57 |
| maemo | shortage* | 23:57 |
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| maemo | any help here? | 23:58 |
| timeless_mbp | maemo: what do you mean 'defective problem'? | 23:59 |
| timeless_mbp | 5218 and 6548 clearly indicate that video call isn't supported _yet_ | 23:59 |
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